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On this week's Crewcast, the J Boys go on a grimdark adventure in Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon, Frank gets nostalgic with the remaster of Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny, and Danny's T-posing in the latest Keita Takahashi game. Check out our Quick Look of To a T on Noclip Crew (for now!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KENEcRcLYPs Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1466060/Tainted_Grail_The_Fall_of_Avalon/ To a T: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1875320/to_a_T/ Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3046600/Onimusha_2_Samurais_Destiny/ iTunes Page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/noclip/id1385062988 RSS Feed: http://noclippodcast.libsyn.com/rss Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5XYk92ubrXpvPVk1lin4VB?si=JRAcPnlvQ0-YJWU9XiW9pg Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/noclippodcast Watch our docs: https://youtube.com/noclipvideo Crewcast channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/noclippodcast Learn About Noclip: https://www.noclip.video Become a Patron and get early access to new episodes: https://www.patreon.com/noclip Follow @noclipvideo on Twitter Chapters: 0:00:00 - Intro 0:13:10 - Thanking our Patrion supporters! 0:14:36 - How was your weekend? 0:19:30 - Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon 0:40:39 - To a T 0:54:48 - Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny Remaster 1:03:22 - The Calm Before the Summer Games Fest 1:09:05 - Austria's Game Dev Scene 1:13:01 - No Rest For the Wicked 1:15:12 - Baiting parts of the world into sharing their dev scenes 1:23:16 - Sign Off

Please hit Subscribe/Follow and leave a 5-Star revue. Leave a comment on your paranormal encounter.  Click here to go to our Patrion page. https://www.patreon.com/c/222ParanormalPodcast Click here to go to Jens Poshmark Closet. https://poshmark.com/closet/happie22 Click here to go to our website. https://www.222paranormal.com/ Click here to get joe's book. https://a.co/d/f4Px0yy   In this episode, we dive into one of the most chilling and mysterious modern-day legends: the Black-Eyed Children. These eerie figures, often described as children between the ages of 6 and 16, are said to appear in rural or suburban areas, usually at night, and ask for help—sometimes for a ride, a place to stay, or to use a phone. What sets these children apart is their unsettling appearance. While they look like ordinary kids, their most disturbing feature is their completely black eyes—no whites, no irises—just solid black orbs that seem to hold a sinister, almost otherworldly energy. Witnesses report feelings of intense fear and unease when encountering them, often accompanied by a strong, inexplicable urge to avoid them at all costs. The first accounts of Black-Eyed Children began appearing on the internet in the late '90s, with stories circulating online about strange encounters. These children typically exhibit unnatural behavior, like insisting on entering the home or vehicle of the person they approach, often with a sense of urgency and demand. While many theories about their origins exist, ranging from extraterrestrial beings to ghosts or even cryptids, there is no definitive answer as to who or what they truly are. Some believe they're manifestations of pure evil, others think they're a kind of interdimensional being, or perhaps something darker still. In this episode, we explore these haunting encounters, dive into the chilling stories that have circulated for years, and discuss the possible explanations behind this unsettling phenomenon. Get ready for an unnerving ride into one of the most spine-chilling urban legends of our time. Welcome to the 222 Paranormal Podcast, your gateway to the captivating world of the supernatural. Immerse yourself in our expertly crafted episodes, where we delve deep into a wide range of paranormal phenomena, including ghostly hauntings, cryptid sightings, and unexplained mysteries that defy logic. Each episode is meticulously researched and features engaging discussions with leading experts, seasoned ghost hunters, and renowned paranormal investigators. We cover the latest advancements in ghost hunting technology, offer practical tips for both amateur and experienced investigators, and review essential equipment for your paranormal adventures. Our podcast also explores the rich history of haunted locations, sharing true stories and firsthand accounts that will send chills down your spine. Whether you're a die-hard fan of the paranormal or just curious about the unknown, our content is designed to entertain, inform, and ignite your imagination. Stay tuned as we uncover secrets from the most haunted places around the world and analyze the most intriguing supernatural events. We also provide in-depth interviews with notable figures in the field and explore theories that challenge conventional understanding of reality. By subscribing to our Paranormal Podcast, you'll stay updated with the latest episodes, allowing you to join a community of like-minded individuals who share your fascination with the unexplained. Don't miss out on our exclusive content and special features, which bring you closer to the mysteries that lie beyond our everyday experiences. Dive into the world of the unknown with our Paranormal Podcast and experience the thrill of discovering what lies just beyond the veil of reality.

  Please hit Subscribe/Follow and leave a 5-Star revue. Leave a comment on your favorite Legend. Click here to go to our Patrion page. https://www.patreon.com/c/222ParanormalPodcast Click here to go to Jens Poshmark Closet. https://poshmark.com/closet/happie22 Click here to go to our website. Click here to get joe's book. https://a.co/d/4HqGDl5   On today's episode, we explore two tragic locations that form the heart of Ohio's greatest legend: the Gore Orphanage and the Collinwood School Fire. First, we take a deep dive into the story of the Gore Orphanage, an eerie site nestled in the woods of rural Ohio. The orphanage was the scene of countless untold horrors, with tragic fires, mysterious deaths, and reports of paranormal activity. Many believe the spirits of the children who perished there still haunt the land, making it one of the most notorious haunted locations in the state. Next, we recount the devastating Collinwood School Fire, a horrific tragedy that occurred in 1908 in Cleveland. A fire broke out during school hours, claiming the lives of 172 children and teachers. The disaster shocked the community and left a permanent scar in Ohio's history. These two locations, both marked by immense loss and tragedy, have become part of the dark folklore that continues to haunt Ohio to this day. On this episode, we delve into the stories, the legends, and the mysteries that surround these infamous sites, exploring how they've contributed to Ohio's most enduring ghost stories.   Please hit Subscribe/Follow and leave a 5-Star revue. Leave a comment on your favorite Legend. Click here to go to our Patrion page. Click here to go to Jens Poshmark Closet. Click here to go to our website. Click here to get joe's book. On today's episode, we explore two tragic locations that form the heart of Ohio's greatest legend: the Gore Orphanage and the Collinwood School Fire. First, we take a deep dive into the story of the Gore Orphanage, an eerie site nestled in the woods of rural Ohio. The orphanage was the scene of countless untold horrors, with tragic fires, mysterious deaths, and reports of paranormal activity. Many believe the spirits of the children who perished there still haunt the land, making it one of the most notorious haunted locations in the state. Next, we recount the devastating Collinwood School Fire, a horrific tragedy that occurred in 1908 in Cleveland. A fire broke out during school hours, claiming the lives of 172 children and teachers. The disaster shocked the community and left a permanent scar in Ohio's history. These two locations, both marked by immense loss and tragedy, have become part of the dark folklore that continues to haunt Ohio to this day. On this episode, we delve into the stories, the legends, and the mysteries that surround these infamous sites, exploring how they've contributed to Ohio's most enduring ghost stories. Discover the world of the supernatural with the 222 Paranormal Podcast, your ultimate source for spine-chilling tales and expert insights into the unknown. Each episode delves into a variety of paranormal phenomena, from ghostly hauntings and cryptid encounters to unexplained mysteries and psychic phenomena. Join us as we interview leading experts, investigate haunted locations, and share true stories that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Our podcast covers everything from the latest in ghost hunting technology to historical accounts of paranormal events. Whether you're a seasoned investigator or just fascinated by the supernatural, our content is designed to captivate and inform. Tune in to our Paranormal Podcast for engaging discussions, detailed investigations, and thought-provoking theories that challenge the boundaries of reality. We also offer practical tips for aspiring ghost hunters and reviews of essential paranormal equipment. Don't miss out on our exclusive episodes that explore the most haunted places and the most enigmatic phenomena. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest content and join a community of paranormal enthusiasts eager to explore the mysteries of the beyond. Experience the thrill of the unknown with the 222 Paranormal Podcast today! Gore Orphanage info         The real name of the Orphanage was the Light of Hope (also referred to as the Light and Hope). It was built by the Reverend John A. Sprunger and his wife in 1903 after their orphanage located in Bern, Indiana was destroyed by fire in 1899. Three orphan girls were reported to have died in that fire. The name Gore Orphanage was adopted by young thrill seekers over the years because it apparently fired their collective imaginations of murder and mayhem at Sprunger's home for orphans. The belief is/was that the word "gore" was referring to that of a bloody wound. Thus it amplified, and seemed to substantiate, the ever evolving horror story about the place. But in fact the word actually referred to a topographical description of the land running the length of the road in Lorain County, Ohio where it is located. In brief, it was simply a triangular piece of land (hence the name "gore"). Prior to the orphanage being established along the road it was called Gore Road. The Collinwood Fire On 4 March 1908, a tragedy occurred that prompted changes in school safety across the United States. About nine o'clock in the morning on March 4, 1908, nine-year-old Niles Thompson jumped out of a window at Lakeview Elementary to escape a fire that had started in the basement of his school. Nearly two hundred children who had also been lucky enough to escape watched as flames engulfed the Collinwood school. Niles frantically ran among his schoolmates, searching for his little brother, Thomas. Once Niles realized his brother was not one of the safe children, he ran back into the school to save Thomas. Neither of the two Thompson boys walked out of their school again. Niles and Thomas Thompson were among the 172 children and two teachers who were trapped inside the school and died in the fire. Nineteen of these children could not be identified. That weekend, the entire Collinwood community mourned for those lost. According to Cleveland's Plain Dealer, "The village seemed to be one vast procession of hearses and carriages. . . . Scarcely did one funeral carriage pass before another came into sight wending its way with its sorrowful burden to the burying grounds. . . . Those who had no dead to mourn stood on the streets watching the grim procession as they passed. There was scarcely a dry eye in Collinwood." The following Monday, memorial and funeral services were held at Lake View Cemetery for all the victims of the Collinwood school fire. Businesses in the Collinwood neighborhood were closed for the day out of respect for the dead and their families. Lakeview Elementary children that survived served as pallbearers and other Cleveland school children made memorials in the shape of flowers.  

Greg rambles about projects he is doing and starts to explore why he took a break. See you at Lofty. Scale: https://LoftyPursuits.com/scale Jukebox: https://LoftyPursuits.com/jukebox Patrion: https://patreon.com/LoftyPursuits YT: https://Youube.com/LoftyPursuits Candy: https://www.pd.net    

El pasado mes de julio, el diario estadounidense The New York Times publicó una lista de “Los 100 mejores libros del Siglo XXI” que no tardó en dar de qué hablar. En este episodio, entretenido y profundo como el resto, Dani y Carla se sumergen en los libros que ellas han leído de la polémica lista y los que creen son los grandes ausentes. Si son amantes de la lectura o están buscando qué leer no pueden dejar de escuchar este episodio. Además, las invitamos a participar en el club de lectura de nuestro Patreon en el que ya discutimos “Los días del abandono” de Elena Ferrante (puesto 92 en la lista) y en la que seguramente seguiremos leyendo esos títulos y otros de interés. Libros de la lista del New York Times (con su posición correspondiente) leídos por Dani y Carla: 92 “Los días del abandono”, Elena Ferrante. 91 “La mancha humana”, Philip Roth. 81 “Temporada de huracanes”, Fernanda Melchor. 80 “La niña perdida”, Elena Ferrante. Libro 4 de la serie de “Las dos amigas”. 79 “Manual para mujeres de la limpieza”, Lucía Berlín. 59 “Middlesex”, Jeffrey Eugenides. 38 “Detectives salvajes”, Roberto Bolaño. 27 “Americanah”, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. 13 “El año del pensamiento mágico”, Joan Didion. 11 “La maravillosa vida breve de Óscar Wao”, Junot Díaz. 9 “Nunca me abandones”, Kazuo Ishiguro. 1 “La amiga estupenda”, Elena Ferrante. Libro 1 de “Las dos amigas”. La lista completa la pueden conseguir en un post publicado el 15 de julio en el Instagram de @nytbooks. Otros libros mencionados en el episodio: “Los años”, Annie Ernaux. “Fármaco”, Almudena Sánchez. “Me llamo Lucy Barton”, Elizabeth Strout. “Las Malas”, Camila Sosa Villada. “Pura pasión”, Annie Ernaux. “El acontecimiento”, Annie Ernaux. “Medio sol amarillo”, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. “Criar en feminismo”, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. “Lo que no tiene nombre”, Piedad Bonnet. “Noches azules”, Joan Didion. “Despojos: Sobre el matrimonio y la separación”, Rachel Cusk. “Un trabajo para toda la vida: Sobre la experiencia de ser madre”, Rachel Cusk. “2666”, RobertoBolaño. “La hija oscura”, Elena Ferrante. “La vida mentirosa de los adultos”, Elena Ferrante. “Una educación”, Tara Westover. “Nada se opone a la noche”, Delphine De Vigan. Charlas TED “Todos deberíamos ser feministas”, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. Series “Olive Kitteridge”, HBO. “My Brilliant Friend”, HBO. “La vida mentirosa de los adultos”, Netflix. Películas “La hija oscura”. “Nunca me abandones”. Podcast “Grandes infelices. Luces y sombras de grandes novelistas”. Spotify. Patrion Apóyanos en Patrion  / podemosvivirestahistoria   Suscríbete, déjanos un comentario  y comparte con tus amigas ¿Dónde nos puedes encontrar? En nuestra redes sociales: • Carla Candia Casado es @agobiosdemadre • Daniela Kammoun es @danikammoun

Dieses Mal hat Adrian sich Daniel ehemals LLE eingeladen. Die Tour de France ist nur eins der Themen die sich die beiden Coaches vornehmen. Training, DNF´s und Bücher nehmen sich die beiden auch vor. Wir wünschen viel Spaß. Folgt uns auf Instagram oder kommt in unsere Facebook-Gruppe. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wechselzone_podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Wechselzonejungs Email: wechselzonepodcast@gmail.com Patrion: https://www.patreon.com/Wechselzone4?fan_landing=true … „Tour de France, Caching und DNF´s mit Daniel Arnold“ weiterlesen

Es war soweit. Das Finale unsere Road to Challenge Roth. Wie es Jörg ergangen ist und was er alles erlebt hat, hört ihr in der neuen Folge Folgt uns auf Instagram oder kommt in unsere Facebook-Gruppe. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wechselzone_podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Wechselzonejungs Email: wechselzonepodcast@gmail.com Patrion: https://www.patreon.com/Wechselzone4?fan_landing=true Blogseite: http://wechselzonepodcast.de/ SpotifyPlaylist : https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2djnv0k9QdlBXVLQnR8oY3?si=0CVneYzTQRisozlQv9sGjQ&utm_source=copy-link Strava: https://www.strava.com/clubs/wechselzonejungs KM Spiel: https://www.kmspiel.de/2018/

On episode 74, I get to interview Micah again. He did a road trip up to northern Maine to watch the solar eclipse. Something I missed this year and I haven't seen one since I was in grade school in New Jersey.   But first, Listener Lu joins us again with a question. She wants to know if I'll be flying on the newly refurbished Lufthansa A-380s. In Additions, Corrections and Shoutouts, Micah might have found a home for Shreenand's Stearman. And I finally look of the names of our Patrion supporters. I'm so sorry this has taken me so long and I'm so pathetic at keeping track of these very valuable listeners. Currently, our supporters include, Alan, Vincent, Phillip, Hendrik and Kathleen. I know there have been others in the past and if you aren't on this list now, please let me know! Lastly, please send in a list of your favorite aviation museum and why it's your favorite. We will go over these on Episode 76! The opening and closing music is provided by the Madalitso Youth Choir as they sing their Welcome Song and their Good By song, recorded at the lobby of The Royal Livingston Hotel in Zambia. We hope you enjoy the show!

En “Podemos vivir esta historia” creemos en escuchar a nuestra comunidad, por eso el tema de este episodio fue sugerido por una de ustedes. “El propósito de vida” se ha vuelto un tópico común en redes sociales, libros y hasta en  conversaciones cotidianas. “¿Estoy viviendo mi propósito?” es una pregunta que se hacen muchas. Dani y Carla intentan responder esa interrogante cada una desde su perspectiva que aunque es diferente, ambas coinciden en que que para encontrar el propósito personal es necesario abandonar los agobios, conocerse y estar presente en la vida. Libros “Feminismo terapéutico: Psicología empoderadora para mujeres que buscan su propia voz”, María Fornet. “Purpose: What Evolution and Human Nature Imply about the Meaning of Our Existence”, Samuel Wilkinson.  “Libera tu magia”, Elizabeth Gilbert.  Películas “Soul”, Disney Pixar.  Podcast  “Grandes Infelices”, episodio sobre Harper Lee.  Ted Talk “Elizabeth Gilbert sobre darle alas a la creatividad”.  Patrion Apóyanos en Patrion https://www.patreon.com/Podemosvivirestahistoria Si quieres sugerirnos un tema , contarnos tus historias o simplemente saludarnos puedes hacerlo en podemosvivirestahistoria@gmail.com Suscríbete, déjanos un comentario  y comparte con tus amigas ¿Dónde nos puedes encontrar? En nuestra redes sociales: • Carla Candia Casado es @agobiosdemadre • Daniela Kammoun es @danikammoun y @projectglamm

No solo se trata de lo que hacemos en el tiempo libro, sino las cosas que nos apasionan hacer y que hacemos solo por el placer que nos brindas. Dani y Carla nos hablan de cuáles son estas actividades que les apasionan, algunas las comparten como leer, pero como siempre cada una tiene sus favoritas. En esta capítulo hablamos de lo importante para la existencia de tener actividades recreativas y como debemos buscar el tiempo para descubrirnos. Libros Don Quijote  de la Mancha- Miguel De Cervantes  Mio Cid. Anónimo La llamada. Leila Guerrero.  Patrion Apóyanos en Patrion https://www.patreon.com/Podemosvivirestahistoria Si quieres sugerirnos un tema , contarnos tus historias o simplemente saludarnos puedes hacerlo en podemosvivirestahistoria@gmail.com Suscríbete, déjanos un comentario  y comparte con tus amigas ¿Dónde nos puedes encontrar? En nuestra redes sociales: • Carla Candia Casado es @agobiosdemadre • Daniela Kammoun es @danikammoun y @projectglamm

Este episodio se hizo esperar, lo sabemos (el último fue hace casi dos años); pero como reza el dicho, está tan bueno que bien ha valido el tiempo de descanso.  Dany y Carla cuentan por qué se tomaron esta pausa, qué están viviendo en esta etapa de sus vidas y todos los planes que esperan llevar adelante junto a sus fieles seguidoras ahora que están de regreso. Entre ellos un Patreon, en donde tendrán un club de lectura exclusivo para quienes se suscriban. Y como el par de amigas no le teme a los temas peliagudos, en este episodio hablan sobre la desigualdad en las labores del hogar y la carga mental de las mujeres con respecto a los hombres, a partir del libro “La mujer helada” de la escritora francesa Annie Ernaux, y con cifras y estudios que demuestran esta injusta realidad.  Libros  “La mujer helada”, Annie Ernaux. “Despojos. Sobre el matrimonio y la separación”, Rachel Cusk. Series “The Americans” (Star + Latinoamérica). “Intimidad” (Netflix). GirlBoss. (Netflix) Estudios Estudios sobre brecha de género de la ganadora al Nobel de Economía de 2023 Claudia Goldin.   “Las mujeres hoy. Cómo son, qué piensan y cómo se sienten”, realizado por la economista Laura Sagnier y María Ángeles Durán. Universidad de Valencia- España. Otras referencias  Humanidad Compartida. Concepto de autocompasión consciente desarrollado por Kristin Neff y Christopher Germer.  Patrion Apóyanos en Patrion patreon.com/Podemosvivirestahistoria Si quieres sugerirnos un tema , contarnos tus historias o simplemente saludarnos puedes hacerlo en podemosvivirestahistoria@gmail.comSuscríbete, déjanos un comentario  y comparte con tus amigas¿Dónde nos puedes encontrar?En nuestra redes sociales:• Carla Candia Casado es @agobiosdemadre• Daniela Kammoun es @danikammoun y @projectglamm

A fabled jewel, a controversial Egyptologist, and evil risen again. In this episode, we look into Day of the Mummy (2014), starring Danny Glover. Patrion: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=121406587 Email: mummymoviepodcast@gmail.com Articles and Sites Available for FreeIrigaray, C. (2020). The Pyramids of Sneferu. Retrieved from https://www.academia.edu/42770465/The_Pyramids_of_Sneferu The Egypt Centre. (2023). Offering Formula. Retrieved from https://www.egypt.swan.ac.uk/the-collection-2/the-collection/offering-formula/ BibliographyAl-Sharkawi, M. (2016). History and development of the Arabic language. Taylor & Francis. El Awady, T. (2009). Abusir XVI: Sahure-the Pyramid Causeway: History and Decoration Program in the Old Kingdom. Prague: Charles University in Prague. IMDB. (2023). Day of the mummy. Retrieved from https://www.imdb.com/?ref_=nv_home Callender, V. G. (2004). Queen Tausret and the end of Dynasty 19. Studien zur altägyptischen Kultur, 81-104. Malek, J. (1992). In the shadow of the pyramids: Egypt during the Old Kingdom. University of Oklahoma Press. Rice, M. (2002). Who's who in Ancient Egypt. Routledge.  Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We thought we'd start sharing the first few minutes of our Patreon episodes here on the main feed to give everyone a taste of what you can expect if you join us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/thefrankencast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. What a nostalgia trip this was! Join us for this silly Frankensteinian claymation comedy special from the guys behind the California Raisins and Anthony's childhood obsession Dinosaurs! It gets silly, but it's a lot of fun. Plus, vintage commercials! Always a treat. You can watch the version we watched here: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8f00mg And you can watch the music video for the banger jam "Mesozoic Mind" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNeAINi9omo 

Its a Patrion sneak preview! The girls talk about hitchhiking, breaking into the wrong house and their fear and love of this classic horror masterpiece.

Wir besprechen alles zum Super Bowl. Folgt uns auf Instagram oder kommt in unsere Facebook-Gruppe. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wechselzone_podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Wechselzonejungs Email: wechselzonepodcast@gmail.com Patrion: https://www.patreon.com/Wechselzone4?fan_landing=true Blogseite: http://wechselzonepodcast.de/ SpotifyPlaylist : https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2djnv0k9QdlBXVLQnR8oY3?si=0CVneYzTQRisozlQv9sGjQ&utm_source=copy-link Strava: https://www.strava.com/clubs/wechselzonejungs KM Spiel: https://www.kmspiel.de/2018/

Rob's Twitter: https://x.com/rjmigliaccioiii?s=21&t=UZXAAZe_TjtHB_l6R83x8Q Patreon Podcast Offer: patreon.com/hmaewalsh Partial Transcript: Hello, beautiful people. And welcome back to the show. First, I want to give you an offer that I am posting nowhere else. I have sort of gathered all of the nutrition resources from everything I've ever made. Um, which is a lot between the gym and my own nutrition work and everything that I've done with 23 hour health. Um, there's a shit ton of these like cheat sheet, grocery lists, sample meal plan type things. And I put them all on Patrion. So that link will be in the description of the episode. There is a special offer for just you guys. Um, there is only a few of them available. You will see it. It's very obvious. It's the first pricing tier do not pay for the more expensive one. I repeat, do not pay for the more expensive onethere's a cheaper one. Do that one. So today we're talking about strength. We're going to go into what that means. I want to welcome Robert to the show. Hello, Rob. Hello? Hello? Hello. We are going to get right into it. What is strength and what does that mean for most people? . Does being muscular mean being strong. I mean it doesn't. Not mean that, but it doesn't. It does not the same. Right. . How strong does the average person need to be like, and how do they actually compare where they're at? Like, it's probably not safe for everyone to go, just test their one rep max back squat. So how do you know if you're strong enough? What does that mean for the average person who wants to be very functional in their day-to-day life? Oh, there, you have to figure out what is strength, I mean, it's the ability to create force, and force. Is what in lifestyle and every day for the average parent, what is that? .  You need to be stronger than the forces that you experienced in your everyday life. So, I mean, If you trip and fall, you need to be stronger than it takes to stand back up. You should probably be strong enough that lifting the groceries and the big bag of dog food is not something you need a warm up for. She'd be like a relatively low percentage of your strength to get something from the ground to your ways your, from the ground to your shoulder, like. That that's why you would train, strengthened me on top of that.  People experience a lot of pain when they're not strong because they used. Musculature, they use patterns that are not literally not stronger than gravity or not stronger than the object that they're trying to do.  The other thing is just, you know, people living a life that doesn't make them stronger on a long enough time horizon. People get hurt and you get hurt living a regular life because you are, you're not stronger than the stuff you're asking your body to do. The number of people who get hurt shoveling because. How often do you twist and sort of lift? I don't know, like 10 to 40 pounds. Dozens of times you probably only do it. Three times a year. I think. Most people have experience with that. Like at some point or another, you do something stupid and you're like, why did I go shovel for five hours straight? Like my back is killing me for three days after like we've all overdone it. And I think that the whole point is really to make it harder to overdo it. You should be able to have a level of preparation that makes it, so those things don't end that way. . How do people assess where they're at? I think like anything you want to know what the goal is like, are you trying to be strong enough to go to the grocery store? Are you trying to be strong enough to like, When your exercise class. I think that a lot of people want something in between. Right. Yeah. Most people, I think most people in my audience for the very least. So let's kind of stick there.   Support the show

Al and Kev talk about all the new Harvest Moon: Winds of Anthos news and try out the original Harvest Moon. Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:53: What Have We Been Up To 00:17:35: News 00:45:31: Harvest Moon The Winds Of Anthos Medium Dive 01:09:27: Harvest Moon (SNES) 01:35:23: Outro Links Sprout Valley Release Date Moonstone Island Release Date A Tiny Sticker Tale Release Date Disney Dreamlight Valley Cozy Edition Spirittea Release Date The Wandering Village Birtdahy Update Stardew Valley Cookbook Fogu Winds of Anthos Info Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript [00:00.000 –> 00:01.860] There you go! [00:30.760 –> 00:35.880] Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. [00:35.880 –> 00:37.440] My name is Al. [00:37.440 –> 00:38.920] I’m Kevin. [00:38.920 –> 00:42.000] And we’re here today to talk about Harvest Moon. [00:42.000 –> 00:44.660] Yeah, yeah, living up to the name. [00:44.660 –> 00:45.660] All the Harvest Moon. [00:45.660 –> 00:46.660] Our name, the harvest. [00:46.660 –> 00:47.660] Yeah. [00:47.660 –> 00:50.440] This is our Harvest Moon Bonanza episode. [00:50.440 –> 00:55.920] Yeah, we’re going to the old, the new, the good, the bad, all of it. [00:55.920 –> 00:56.920] Yeah. [00:56.920 –> 00:58.920] And we’ll not tell you which is which yet. [00:58.920 –> 01:05.980] So before we get into that, obviously, transcripts are, as always, available in the show notes [01:05.980 –> 01:07.360] and on the website. [01:07.360 –> 01:09.320] So they’re there if you need them. [01:09.320 –> 01:14.200] Yeah, we’ve got a bunch of news to talk about. [01:14.200 –> 01:21.240] And then we’re going to do a dive into a bunch of information that’s come up on Harvest Moon [01:21.240 –> 01:24.280] Winds of Anthos over the last week. [01:24.280 –> 01:30.620] Coincidentally, this was coincidental, on the week that we decided that we were going [01:30.620 –> 01:37.060] to play the original Harvest Moon, now that it’s out on Nintendo Switch Online. [01:37.060 –> 01:39.680] So we’re going to talk about that at the end as well. [01:39.680 –> 01:46.540] Yeah, that’s gonna, that’s really an interesting timing there, how it all lined up. [01:46.540 –> 01:47.540] It’s amazing. [01:47.540 –> 01:48.540] I love it. [01:48.540 –> 01:52.440] I wish more episodes worked like this. [01:52.440 –> 01:56.080] But before all of that, Kevin, what have you been up to? [01:56.080 –> 01:58.220] Oh, good question. [01:58.220 –> 02:00.160] So I’m doing early plug. [02:00.160 –> 02:04.440] I didn’t talk about last week, but the episodes already out. [02:04.440 –> 02:05.720] Things have been busy over at the other show. [02:05.720 –> 02:11.200] I’m now working with our dear friend Alex on Rainbow Road Radio. [02:11.200 –> 02:15.640] I’ve been play well, not this as much this week, but I’ve been playing a little bit of [02:15.640 –> 02:19.880] Super Mario Sunshine, because we covered that. [02:19.880 –> 02:25.560] There’s a big media episode for you guys to listen if you want to hear my in-depth thoughts, [02:25.560 –> 02:28.080] but my general consensus, I still like the game. [02:28.080 –> 02:29.320] I’m giving it a thumbs up. [02:29.320 –> 02:30.320] Yeah. [02:30.320 –> 02:32.200] Do I get to have feedback on your episode here? [02:32.200 –> 02:33.200] That sounds fun. [02:33.200 –> 02:34.200] Sure. [02:34.200 –> 02:35.200] Yes. [02:35.200 –> 02:36.200] I think it was great. [02:36.200 –> 02:40.320] I will say, I didn’t like the fact that there was a question over whether it was better [02:40.320 –> 02:42.760] or worse than Mario 64. [02:42.760 –> 02:45.000] Mario 64 is terrible. [02:45.000 –> 02:50.040] Mario Sunshine definitely has its issues. [02:50.040 –> 02:53.760] You can tell it’s a 20-year-old game. [02:53.760 –> 02:57.360] You can tell it’s a 20-year-old game, which by the way, it’s insane that something that [02:57.360 –> 03:00.220] looks like that is 20 years old, but that’s just time. [03:00.220 –> 03:04.560] It just keeps moving. [03:04.560 –> 03:06.040] It works both ways here. [03:06.040 –> 03:13.960] GameCube is a weird era because not only does the stuff hold up fairly well 20 years later, [03:13.960 –> 03:22.960] but if you look at what was out five years before, it’s insane, because 64 is not that [03:22.960 –> 03:24.040] far before Sunshine. [03:24.040 –> 03:25.260] It’s crazy. [03:25.260 –> 03:26.260] This is the thing. [03:26.260 –> 03:34.680] If you look at screenshots of Mario 64 next to Mario Sunshine, they look a decade apart. [03:34.680 –> 03:42.680] You can literally see the polygons on him in Mario 64, and in Mario Sunshine, it’s smooth. [03:42.680 –> 03:45.760] If it’s the sort of thing that was released just now, people would be like, oh, it’s a [03:45.760 –> 03:50.160] little bit outdated graphics, but they wouldn’t be like, oh, it’s horrific. [03:50.160 –> 03:52.160] It’s pretty good, still. [03:52.160 –> 03:55.720] You get an indie developer in this day and age who would release it and nobody would [03:55.720 –> 03:59.600] bat an eye, right? [03:59.600 –> 04:00.760] It’s not that far behind. [04:00.760 –> 04:01.760] It’s insane. [04:01.760 –> 04:04.200] Yeah, yeah, definitely. [04:04.200 –> 04:07.760] The biggest thing, I think, as you discussed on the episode, is the camera. [04:07.760 –> 04:08.760] Yeah. [04:08.760 –> 04:09.760] Real issues. [04:09.760 –> 04:10.760] It’s the camera. [04:10.840 –> 04:14.960] The Mario team have figured that out, and the newer games have much better cameras. [04:14.960 –> 04:17.760] Yeah, yeah, they are. [04:17.760 –> 04:23.920] It’d be nice to see that game get a proper remake, not just this weird half port that [04:23.920 –> 04:26.960] they do for the collection or whatever. [04:26.960 –> 04:31.580] I think I’d be fine with, I mean, I get why you would want that, but I think it would [04:31.580 –> 04:37.780] also be fun if they just had the flood in a newer game, because that was what makes [04:37.780 –> 04:39.200] it different, right? [04:39.200 –> 04:40.200] Absolutely. [04:40.640 –> 04:45.960] I know the whole, oh yeah, well, Bowser’s Fury is like the spiritual successor to Sunshine, [04:45.960 –> 04:49.040] and I get why people are saying that, but it’s not the same. [04:49.040 –> 04:51.120] No, absolutely not. [04:51.120 –> 04:58.440] I think it was, getting more in-depth, there was stuff in the code that implied it was [04:58.440 –> 05:03.000] very much more, not just going to be spiritual, it was going to be, they were working on a [05:03.000 –> 05:05.920] Sunshine sequel to some degree, but there’s no flood. [05:05.920 –> 05:08.720] And that’s the thing that makes Sunshine, Sunshine. [05:09.240 –> 05:14.120] It’s built on the same code base, similar in lots of ways, but without the flood, it’s [05:14.120 –> 05:15.120] not the same. [05:15.120 –> 05:17.320] Yeah, you’re super right. [05:17.320 –> 05:22.040] I said like a remake, because I don’t think I will ever see flood come back in a game [05:22.040 –> 05:28.760] in my lifetime, or a new game, let’s say, so that’s why I’m thinking of the remake, [05:28.760 –> 05:30.760] but of course that would be my preference. [05:30.760 –> 05:32.760] I would give for a new flood. [05:32.760 –> 05:34.760] That’d be good fun. [05:34.800 –> 05:42.800] Yeah, and again, a little tidbit from that episode, but there were like, seven? [05:42.800 –> 05:45.800] They originally had like ten different nozzles for flood? [05:45.800 –> 05:46.800] Yeah. [05:46.800 –> 05:51.800] I want to know, oh god, okay, yeah, I’d love to see a sequel with more stuff. [05:51.800 –> 05:52.800] That would be fun. [05:52.800 –> 05:57.240] Yeah, but regardless, Sunshine, that was a good media episode, go listen to it, thank [05:57.240 –> 05:59.720] you for listening, Al. [05:59.720 –> 06:03.720] And actually, I highly recommend the episode that we’ll be releasing, well actually it’ll [06:03.760 –> 06:08.840] probably be out by the time listeners are listening to this, because Mario Wonder, we [06:08.840 –> 06:16.200] got our direct, and so we got the content for you guys, we go in-depth into our thoughts [06:16.200 –> 06:17.200] on Wonder. [06:17.200 –> 06:19.960] This was a good time to start a Mario. [06:19.960 –> 06:28.920] I know, it’s so good, yeah, it was great timing, much like this episode. [06:28.920 –> 06:37.160] But anyways, aside from the Mario life, nothing too crazy, I’ve been Tears of the Kingdoming, [06:37.160 –> 06:39.160] guess what, still good. [06:39.160 –> 06:40.160] Shock. [06:40.160 –> 06:45.920] Yeah, Don-Don’s are cool, I met them, I saved the pirates, no, I killed the pirates and [06:45.920 –> 06:50.320] saved literally another way around. [06:50.320 –> 06:56.960] Other than that, nothing too exciting, Unite, Snap, oh, the Mewtwo raids, I guess we can [06:57.000 –> 07:01.360] talk about that, or Scarlet Violet. [07:01.360 –> 07:10.720] It’s fine, I guess, it happened, I did it, I mean, there’s a whole spiel here I could [07:10.720 –> 07:19.240] go into, but there’s just something about optimizing an event like this, a strategy [07:19.240 –> 07:24.120] so well that it kills the fun for me a little bit. [07:24.600 –> 07:31.840] I get that, I guess the problem is that I think is people’s problem, unless you just [07:31.840 –> 07:40.640] go like, well, the raid can do these 10 different things, and therefore you can’t plan for it. [07:40.640 –> 07:44.680] Unless you do that, I don’t think there’s really a way to not have that happen, because [07:44.680 –> 07:49.960] you have thousands of players who are like, I need to min-max this, I need to figure out [07:49.960 –> 07:52.080] how to solve this. [07:52.080 –> 07:58.840] I find it quite fun to see the crazy strategies, like, oh, why on earth is everybody setting [07:58.840 –> 07:59.840] up electric terrain? [07:59.840 –> 08:03.120] Oh, it’s because apparently electric terrain means you can’t sleep. [08:03.120 –> 08:04.120] Oh, that’s fun. [08:04.120 –> 08:09.560] That’s an interesting one, I did not realize that was a thing, that’s the kind of parts [08:09.560 –> 08:14.320] of the game that I’ve never really been bothered to be interested in because I’m not a competitive [08:14.320 –> 08:15.320] player. [08:15.960 –> 08:23.800] Yeah, and to get, I guess for people who don’t play Pokemon or don’t know, there’s an event [08:23.800 –> 08:28.720] where you team up with three other players and you can fight a big Mewtwo, well not actually [08:28.720 –> 08:31.080] big, but it’s a very strong Mewtwo, right? [08:31.080 –> 08:37.760] And if you happen to have a Mew on you, which they gave out in distribution, or you happen [08:37.760 –> 08:42.200] to have one transferred in for whatever, you get a boost to your Mew, because there’s that [08:42.200 –> 08:47.200] rivalry in Pokemon Mew vs Mewtwo or whatever, and that’s fun and all, right? [08:47.200 –> 08:56.080] And so yeah, so there’s these obviously very efficient strategies to be in the event, but [08:56.080 –> 09:02.880] the real kicker is Mew has the ultimate, or like the poster child for adaptability, can [09:02.880 –> 09:06.160] learn every move, do everything, whatever it wants to, right? [09:06.160 –> 09:13.440] So I would have preferred a weaker Mewtwo where you didn’t have to maximize your strategy [09:13.440 –> 09:20.120] to, because it is a difficult challenge if you don’t know what you’re doing, right? [09:20.120 –> 09:26.560] But if it were so weak that, if it were doable without having to do that, right, where everyone [09:26.560 –> 09:30.840] could just run different things, or you could plan maybe something with your teammates, [09:30.840 –> 09:33.440] where everyone didn’t have to be the same, I think I’d enjoy that more. [09:33.440 –> 09:40.680] But that is, you know, that’s just wishful thinking, Cela V, it’s min-maxing video games, [09:40.680 –> 09:42.880] it’s what you’re going to do. [09:42.880 –> 09:43.880] But that’s what I’ve been up to. [09:43.880 –> 09:44.880] What about you, Al? [09:44.880 –> 09:45.880] What’s going on? [09:45.880 –> 09:50.080] Yeah, well, obviously I was doing the Pokemon raids as well, I quite enjoyed the getting, [09:50.080 –> 09:54.040] I think it took me about four turns, and we finally got a team together that was actually [09:54.040 –> 09:58.200] knew what they were doing, and we still had to do, I think the fun thing about this one [09:58.200 –> 10:01.760] is like, yeah, you have a strategy, but you still have to do it, and you have to do it [10:01.760 –> 10:02.760] well. [10:02.760 –> 10:06.040] So it’s like, you know, it takes the whole, was it five minutes? [10:06.040 –> 10:07.040] Is that how long one is? [10:07.040 –> 10:12.920] It takes almost the entire five minutes to do that, even if you’re doing everything perfectly. [10:12.920 –> 10:18.600] And just seeing like four random people connecting online, not knowing each other, and noticing [10:18.600 –> 10:22.480] what the others are doing, and just adapting to that, and just going, that was really fun, [10:22.480 –> 10:23.480] right? [10:23.480 –> 10:27.800] Because especially in the one that I won, like all four of us set up light screen turn [10:27.800 –> 10:32.640] one, and I was like, Oh, no, it’s just a group full of support Pokemon, we’re gonna lose. [10:32.640 –> 10:37.440] But then it turns out that the other two of the people had leech life, which is the [10:37.440 –> 10:41.640] big, big hair that you have to take it down. [10:41.640 –> 10:46.360] And they just they just started getting to the strategy that would lead them to do the [10:46.360 –> 10:48.680] swords dancing and leech life, blah, blah, blah. [10:48.680 –> 10:58.240] And I had the right moves for both to be support or be technical and the other and so we kind [10:58.240 –> 11:02.480] of me and the other one kind of just tag teamed and it worked really well, which was good [11:03.120 –> 11:08.640] Yeah, see, I’ll say that to like, that sounds pretty fun. [11:08.640 –> 11:12.920] I did mine with a team off the bat of people I was talking to, like I didn’t do with random. [11:12.920 –> 11:17.840] So we got it one and done pretty much we had it on the bat. [11:17.840 –> 11:24.160] But I will say that it is fun, at least even we because with four people, like you said, [11:24.160 –> 11:26.680] there’s there’s different roles and different movesets you can carry. [11:26.680 –> 11:28.480] So there’s a little variability. [11:28.480 –> 11:33.440] And yes, as you could probably pack one of different move to kind of pivot if you need [11:33.440 –> 11:36.880] to in the middle of a battle, which I did as well at some point. [11:36.880 –> 11:39.160] So that that is a little then it’s kind of fun. [11:39.160 –> 11:40.880] And so yeah, I did that. [11:40.880 –> 11:46.600] I’ve obviously been playing some Harvest Moon, original Harvest Moon for the SNES on the [11:46.600 –> 11:47.600] Nintendo Switch. [11:47.600 –> 11:48.600] Of course. [11:48.600 –> 11:52.600] This is my first time playing with these, these virtual console, whatever you don’t [11:52.600 –> 11:53.600] play any of them before. [11:53.600 –> 11:58.060] No, I’ve never, you’ve broken the dam, you’re going to be all in on all of them. [11:58.060 –> 12:01.660] You kind of Yeah, now that I saw. [12:01.660 –> 12:02.660] It’s not too bad. [12:02.660 –> 12:05.780] I’ll probably pick up some of the other ones finally try that Pokemon trading card game [12:05.780 –> 12:06.780] for the game. [12:06.780 –> 12:07.780] Well, that’s so good. [12:07.780 –> 12:10.620] I think I think that has aged really well as well. [12:10.620 –> 12:13.500] Like obviously, the graphics are very clearly Gameboy. [12:13.500 –> 12:19.980] But that’s, that’s like, that’s a style people still do because they like it so much. [12:19.980 –> 12:23.620] And it’s just obviously quite a limited selection of Pokemon and cards. [12:23.620 –> 12:26.500] But the actual the gameplay is solid. [12:26.500 –> 12:28.360] Like the game works really well. [12:28.360 –> 12:32.860] Like I’ve gone back to that game multiple times over the years, which is wild to think [12:32.860 –> 12:34.820] about. [12:34.820 –> 12:39.340] Because card games can be kind of hard to do on like, or easy to mess up. [12:39.340 –> 12:41.300] Let’s say on on a video game. [12:41.300 –> 12:42.300] Yeah. [12:42.300 –> 12:47.540] And so yeah, I am very curious just to see that because yeah, I don’t I hear nothing [12:47.540 –> 12:48.660] but good things about it. [12:48.660 –> 12:54.300] So that’s why I really hope I really want them to bring the sequel, translate the sequel [12:54.300 –> 12:56.100] out because that was Japan only originally. [12:56.100 –> 12:57.100] Yeah. [12:57.100 –> 13:00.460] So I’ve never never played that because I know this fan translations and stuff, but [13:00.460 –> 13:01.460] it’s not. [13:01.460 –> 13:02.460] Yeah. [13:02.460 –> 13:03.460] Yeah, of course. [13:03.460 –> 13:09.260] So, um, and I fell back into Marvel snap, oops. [13:09.260 –> 13:13.100] I think last last week, last week when we were talking, you were talking about Marvel [13:13.100 –> 13:15.480] snap and I was like, oh, I played it for ages. [13:15.480 –> 13:19.900] And then I think you’d mentioned the daily, the daily bonuses we’re getting at that point. [13:19.900 –> 13:20.900] Yeah. [13:20.900 –> 13:23.140] So I went in and got them. [13:23.140 –> 13:30.380] And oops, within the last week, I did the entire season. [13:30.380 –> 13:31.700] So yeah, that was crazy. [13:31.700 –> 13:34.260] Although this is where my complaint about this game comes in. [13:34.260 –> 13:38.940] Yeah, apparently, they don’t give you enough experience in the season pass missions to [13:38.940 –> 13:42.340] get to level 50 in the season pass, which is very annoying. [13:42.340 –> 13:45.940] If that is wild, if you’ve been playing the whole month and doing daily missions most [13:45.940 –> 13:50.460] days and, uh, and that sort of stuff, then you can, you can easily get enough for free, [13:50.460 –> 13:54.660] but not if you just, if you do it all at the end, which is really annoying. [13:54.660 –> 13:58.620] It’s like, I feel like they should, I feel like they should be able if you do every single [13:58.620 –> 14:02.300] season pass mission, I feel like you should be able to get to 50 right. [14:02.300 –> 14:03.440] That’s that. [14:03.440 –> 14:07.660] It’s not like because they clearly, they’ve clearly built it up around that, right? [14:07.660 –> 14:10.880] Because it’s enough to get you to 45, right? [14:10.880 –> 14:14.660] It’s not like it only gets you to 20 and you have to do so much more work to get it. [14:14.660 –> 14:15.660] I didn’t know that. [14:15.660 –> 14:16.660] 45. [14:16.660 –> 14:19.260] Oh, that’s, that’s cold. [14:19.260 –> 14:20.260] Thanks. [14:20.260 –> 14:21.260] Oh, just right. [14:21.260 –> 14:23.880] Oh, that’s, that’s rough. [14:23.880 –> 14:28.340] So I’m trying to decide in the next day, cause I think we’ve got one day left of it. [14:28.340 –> 14:32.900] It’s literally a day and a couple of hours or something to decide if I’m buying the season [14:32.900 –> 14:36.340] pass because I can’t just buy the 10 quid season pass. [14:36.340 –> 14:38.280] You can’t, I can’t do that. [14:38.280 –> 14:42.060] So I’d need to buy the 15 quid one, which gives you the extra 10 levels and would take [14:42.060 –> 14:43.060] me up to 50. [14:43.060 –> 14:44.060] It’s just so annoying. [14:44.460 –> 14:48.420] Well, it sounds like it worked exactly as they planned on you. [14:48.420 –> 14:49.420] They got you. [14:49.420 –> 14:50.420] Yeah. [14:50.420 –> 14:54.060] They got me in with those dailies and then I had was just enough time to get through [14:54.060 –> 14:59.460] all the missions and then be annoyed and have to pay more money is genius. [14:59.460 –> 15:02.420] At the very least, this season passes. [15:02.420 –> 15:03.420] Okay. [15:03.420 –> 15:07.580] It’s at least for me personally, like I’m not, I wouldn’t be weeping if I didn’t get [15:07.580 –> 15:08.580] it. [15:08.580 –> 15:11.700] Next one seems much cooler, but regardless, that’s just a preference thing. [15:11.700 –> 15:12.700] Yeah. [15:12.700 –> 15:13.700] Maybe, maybe I’ll just, I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s. [15:14.340 –> 15:15.860] I mean, the thing is, right. [15:15.860 –> 15:16.980] It’s a good value. [15:16.980 –> 15:17.980] The season pass anyway. [15:17.980 –> 15:18.980] It is a great value. [15:18.980 –> 15:24.100] You get so much gold and you get loads of good stuff. [15:24.100 –> 15:28.580] And so it’s like, it is the best value thing to buy in the game. [15:28.580 –> 15:32.980] And it’s like, I’ve now, I’ve spent a week unlocking basically everything and it’s like, [15:32.980 –> 15:39.180] I can pay 15 quid and get all the, all these 55 levels. [15:39.180 –> 15:42.900] But anyway, whatever I’ll decide tomorrow, how long I’ve got one day? [15:42.900 –> 15:44.420] Time’s good right now. [15:44.420 –> 15:45.420] One day and eight hours. [15:45.420 –> 15:49.700] So I need to, I did basically need to decide by the end of tomorrow cause it flips over [15:49.700 –> 15:50.700] while I’m… [15:50.700 –> 15:53.940] Did you, did you play on PC or just on your phone? [15:53.940 –> 15:55.580] I’ve done about, I’ve done about both. [15:55.580 –> 15:59.780] And so I’ve not played it on PC cause I use, I use a Mac most of the time, but I, on the [15:59.780 –> 16:02.700] Mac you can use the iPad app. [16:02.700 –> 16:06.900] So I’ve been doing it on my phone and, and using the iPad app on, on my, on my computer. [16:06.900 –> 16:08.980] And it’s good fun. [16:08.980 –> 16:13.500] I do kind of want to, I mean, I’m currently on a windows machine, like talking to you, [16:13.500 –> 16:17.740] but this is, recording the podcast is the only thing I use it for. [16:17.740 –> 16:20.060] So I might install it after this and see how it looks. [16:20.060 –> 16:26.420] Cause I know it’s, it’s like widescreen, isn’t it? [16:26.420 –> 16:31.380] It’s weird because like, obviously Marvel Snap is a very mobily mobile game designed [16:31.380 –> 16:33.140] for mobile to fit that phone. [16:33.140 –> 16:34.140] Right. [16:34.140 –> 16:38.760] And so it is wide screen, but like the field of play isn’t that much wider. [16:38.760 –> 16:47.520] It’s still feels very much like they just uncropped the background, but the animations [16:47.520 –> 16:50.720] and all that stuff, it is buttery smooth. [16:50.720 –> 16:52.200] It is pleasing to look at. [16:52.200 –> 16:53.560] So it’s still worth checking out. [16:53.560 –> 16:55.080] Oh, here’s an important question. [16:55.080 –> 16:56.080] It’s on Steam. [16:56.080 –> 16:57.080] That’s how you get it, right? [16:57.080 –> 16:58.080] Yeah. [16:58.080 –> 16:59.760] Does that mean you can play on Steam Deck? [16:59.760 –> 17:01.660] I want to say yes. [17:01.660 –> 17:06.560] So the only, the only thing, the only thing on the compatibility is that it doesn’t use [17:06.560 –> 17:12.400] the, it uses the onscreen keyboard for some things, which is, means it’s not technically [17:12.400 –> 17:15.840] fully compatible, but it does mean it’s completely usable. [17:15.840 –> 17:16.840] Yeah, probably. [17:16.840 –> 17:20.520] Like how often, I mean the only text I think you input is names of decks, right? [17:20.520 –> 17:23.600] When else would you entering text? [17:23.600 –> 17:24.600] I guess so. [17:24.600 –> 17:25.600] Yeah. [17:25.600 –> 17:26.600] That’s pretty much it. [17:26.600 –> 17:27.600] Yeah. [17:27.600 –> 17:28.600] Interesting. [17:28.600 –> 17:29.600] I wonder how it would play on the Steam Deck. [17:29.600 –> 17:32.360] Well, maybe you should let us know next week. [17:32.360 –> 17:33.880] Maybe I should. [17:33.880 –> 17:34.880] Maybe I should. [17:34.880 –> 17:35.880] Okay. [17:35.880 –> 17:36.880] Yeah. [17:36.880 –> 17:38.520] So that’s what we’ve been playing. [17:38.520 –> 17:40.760] Let’s talk about some news. [17:40.760 –> 17:47.720] So first of all, we have three games announcing their release dates over the next month. [17:47.720 –> 17:48.720] Three games! [17:48.720 –> 17:49.720] That’s… [17:49.720 –> 17:50.720] Why? [17:50.720 –> 17:55.680] It’s not like there’s anything else in September you need to worry about. [17:55.680 –> 18:00.300] First up, we have Sprout Valley, which is coming out on the 8th of September. [18:00.300 –> 18:01.680] So that’s just in a few days. [18:01.680 –> 18:04.720] And two days after this episode comes out, that’s Sprout Valley. [18:04.720 –> 18:05.720] Okay. [18:05.720 –> 18:10.360] Before you even describe the game, naming that, that’s a dangerous game and they know [18:10.360 –> 18:11.360] what they’re doing. [18:11.360 –> 18:14.360] Oh, they absolutely know what they’re doing. [18:14.360 –> 18:15.360] That’s bold. [18:15.360 –> 18:20.880] That takes some chutzpah to do an SV with a valley. [18:20.880 –> 18:21.880] It’s not just that. [18:21.880 –> 18:24.280] Stardew Valley was originally called Sprout Valley before. [18:24.280 –> 18:25.280] Was it? [18:25.280 –> 18:26.280] Yeah. [18:26.280 –> 18:27.280] Oh. [18:27.280 –> 18:31.280] So, I don’t know whether they knew that or not, but that is a thing. [18:31.280 –> 18:32.280] Yeah. [18:32.280 –> 18:33.280] So that’s 8th of September. [18:33.280 –> 18:34.960] That one’s coming out. [18:34.960 –> 18:40.520] And then Moonstone Island are coming out on the 20th of September. [18:40.520 –> 18:44.400] Actually, can I back up to Sprout Valley because we’re just listening there, but I just want [18:44.400 –> 18:51.480] to comment like, for people who look at the video, it looks like a Tamagotchi farming [18:51.480 –> 18:52.480] game. [18:52.480 –> 18:53.480] Yeah. [18:53.480 –> 18:54.480] I guess the sprites are kind of Tamagotchi. [18:54.480 –> 18:55.480] Yeah. [18:55.480 –> 18:56.480] I can see it. [18:56.480 –> 18:57.480] It is cute, right? [18:57.480 –> 18:58.480] It is. [18:58.480 –> 18:59.480] Yeah. [18:59.480 –> 19:00.480] I will say that it looks very cute. [19:00.680 –> 19:01.680] Yeah. [19:01.680 –> 19:02.680] Moonstone Island. [19:02.680 –> 19:03.680] That’s a thing. [19:03.680 –> 19:04.680] Yeah. [19:04.680 –> 19:05.680] Moonstone Island, 20th of September. [19:05.680 –> 19:08.560] Do I want to complain about the summer thing? [19:08.560 –> 19:09.560] I don’t know. [19:09.560 –> 19:10.560] Yes. [19:10.560 –> 19:11.560] September’s not summer. [19:11.560 –> 19:12.560] Yeah. [19:12.560 –> 19:16.960] So they’re like, oh, we said we’re going to release in the summer, and it’s technically [19:16.960 –> 19:22.080] still summer on the 20th of September, and I’m like, if you’re going to go into technically, [19:22.080 –> 19:28.440] if you’re going to go, oh, okay, then I’m going to technically right back at you. [19:28.440 –> 19:32.000] Summer doesn’t have a universally defined, and no, I’m not talking about Northern Hemisphere [19:32.000 –> 19:33.080] and Summer of the Hemisphere. [19:33.080 –> 19:38.680] If we just talk about this Northern Hemisphere, there is no universally defined definition [19:38.680 –> 19:41.440] of summer. [19:41.440 –> 19:42.440] There are, there is like- [19:42.440 –> 19:49.040] Actually, the Equinox is on September 21st, whatever date it is, I don’t remember. [19:49.040 –> 19:50.040] This is the thing, right? [19:50.040 –> 19:52.240] Like, it’s people are like, oh, well, it’s still technically summer. [19:52.240 –> 19:55.000] It’s like, depends on your definition of summer, right? [19:55.000 –> 20:01.000] There’s the astronomical definition of summer, which, yes, does end on the 23rd of September [20:01.000 –> 20:02.120] this year, right? [20:02.120 –> 20:06.940] So yet, sure, it would be under that definition of summer. [20:06.940 –> 20:11.980] But there’s also the meteorological season, which has already ended. [20:11.980 –> 20:15.140] The 31st of August was the last day of summer in that season. [20:15.140 –> 20:19.660] And then that’s not to mention there’s the lesser used Celtic season, also sometimes [20:19.660 –> 20:24.460] named the solar season, which we, you know, defining the seasons by the sun is a crazy [20:24.460 –> 20:26.540] idea, right? [20:26.540 –> 20:28.700] Which does May through July. [20:28.700 –> 20:35.100] So if you’re going to start saying, oh, it’s technically summer, I’m gonna say, well, technically, [20:35.100 –> 20:38.540] it depends on your definition, so. [20:38.540 –> 20:46.540] So regardless of when it’s, it’s not releasing in summer, I don’t care what they say. [20:46.540 –> 20:51.820] People don’t remember, it’s, this is monster collecting card is farming, there’s a lot [20:51.820 –> 20:52.820] of things going on. [20:52.860 –> 21:02.700] It’s a monster collection farming game on like floating islands in the sky. [21:02.700 –> 21:05.420] There’s a lot going on. [21:05.420 –> 21:06.420] There’s a lot. [21:06.420 –> 21:12.420] I mean, to me, it does look like it could be a lot of fun, but I need to play it to [21:12.420 –> 21:13.420] see. [21:13.420 –> 21:14.420] Yeah. [21:14.420 –> 21:17.020] I can’t remember whether this one is one of the ones I kickstarted or not. [21:17.020 –> 21:21.540] I don’t. [21:21.580 –> 21:26.860] When you do so many things like this, sometimes it’s hard to stand out because it has all [21:26.860 –> 21:30.580] the buzzwords or whatever. [21:30.580 –> 21:35.940] But that said, looking at the trailer, there is, oh my gosh, they even have romancing, [21:35.940 –> 21:36.940] don’t they? [21:36.940 –> 21:37.940] Oh, yup. [21:37.940 –> 21:38.940] Yup. [21:38.940 –> 21:39.940] You’re going to go on a date there. [21:39.940 –> 21:40.940] Oh, goodness. [21:40.940 –> 21:41.940] On the sky islands. [21:41.940 –> 21:46.060] You got to go on dates in the sky islands. [21:46.060 –> 21:50.180] See what they should have done was just focused on their little monster designs are quite [21:50.180 –> 21:51.180] fun. [21:51.340 –> 21:53.700] There’s a very tall like tree log guy. [21:53.700 –> 21:57.260] There’s a cool robot golem you fight. [21:57.260 –> 21:59.780] There is, they put a lot of care into the game. [21:59.780 –> 22:00.780] I’ll say that. [22:00.780 –> 22:01.780] Right. [22:01.780 –> 22:02.780] Yeah. [22:02.780 –> 22:11.020] Whether I don’t know if other directions they wanted to go to and was the best call. [22:11.020 –> 22:12.980] They are putting effort into it. [22:12.980 –> 22:13.980] Yeah. [22:13.980 –> 22:21.780] Also I do like, I am, I like the card battle menu where you pick a card to do it and tag [22:21.780 –> 22:23.300] it even if it’s just flavor. [22:23.300 –> 22:24.340] I like it. [22:24.340 –> 22:29.900] It’s a nice looking thing, but, but yeah, you can look at your, look at the trailer [22:29.900 –> 22:32.900] yourself and decide if you want to pick it up on September 20th. [22:32.900 –> 22:38.140] But yeah, it does, it does feel a lot like it’s the, oh, we’re wanting this game to be [22:38.140 –> 22:42.660] five different games in one and that can work and sometimes it doesn’t work. [22:42.660 –> 22:46.980] So we’ll, we’ll see whether this one works or not. [22:46.980 –> 22:48.420] This one, I didn’t kickstart it. [22:48.420 –> 22:50.940] I don’t know whether it was a kickstarter or not, but I didn’t. [22:50.940 –> 22:52.700] I didn’t kickstart it. [22:52.700 –> 22:54.140] I did kickstart Sprout Valley. [22:54.140 –> 22:56.140] So I’ve got that coming. [22:56.140 –> 22:57.140] Yes. [22:57.140 –> 22:58.140] Free game. [22:58.140 –> 23:05.680] And the third game that’s announced its release date is A Tiny Sticker Tale. [23:05.680 –> 23:10.220] This is the one, I mean, it’s not really a Cottagecore game, but it is by the developers [23:10.220 –> 23:11.220] of Lonesome Village. [23:11.220 –> 23:12.220] So that’s why I’m mentioning it. [23:12.220 –> 23:15.220] I mean, it has the vibes. [23:15.220 –> 23:16.220] Yeah. [23:16.220 –> 23:17.220] Yeah. [23:17.220 –> 23:18.220] Yeah. [23:18.220 –> 23:19.220] Yeah. [23:19.220 –> 23:22.440] I think that would be what some people would call a cozy game, not necessarily a cottage [23:22.440 –> 23:23.860] core game. [23:23.860 –> 23:30.620] If we want to get into these definitions, we don’t want to get into these definitions. [23:30.620 –> 23:32.940] If we wanted to, that’s what I would say. [23:32.940 –> 23:33.940] Okay. [23:33.940 –> 23:37.260] So, um, but yeah, this is from Lonesome Village. [23:37.260 –> 23:41.460] We covered that game a while back, Johnny and I, they’re the Mexican developers. [23:41.460 –> 23:45.680] So of course I’m going to probably get this game regardless and support them. [23:45.680 –> 23:50.860] I will say, I don’t know what the Lonesome Numbers Village were, but this looks like [23:50.860 –> 23:55.440] they got a little more, uh, a little more love when maybe they had a little bit more [23:55.440 –> 23:57.140] money for some production value. [23:57.140 –> 23:58.140] Yeah. [23:58.140 –> 23:59.140] Yeah. [23:59.140 –> 24:00.140] Yeah. [24:00.140 –> 24:03.020] So for people who may not remember, Lonesome Village was essentially a puzzle collection [24:03.020 –> 24:04.020] of games. [24:04.020 –> 24:05.020] They’re very good. [24:05.020 –> 24:06.020] Good one. [24:06.020 –> 24:09.020] Um, like, uh, all sorts of different types of puzzles and whatnot. [24:09.020 –> 24:13.660] This one, you’re going through an adventure sort of thing. [24:13.660 –> 24:16.620] And as the name implies, tiny sticker tale. [24:16.620 –> 24:20.380] You’re using stickers to actually put stuff, like you put a sticker of a bridge to make [24:20.380 –> 24:21.380] a bridge. [24:21.380 –> 24:23.380] Um, it’s actually a clever, cute idea. [24:23.380 –> 24:24.380] Yeah. [24:24.380 –> 24:25.380] Yeah. [24:25.380 –> 24:30.620] And it’s on this, it’s really small levels, um, where you’re basically getting from one [24:30.620 –> 24:34.020] side to the other using stickers as a kind of, it’s again, puzzle-y, right? [24:34.020 –> 24:36.740] They clearly love their puzzle games, which is totally fun. [24:36.740 –> 24:41.220] Um, and what I really like about what they’ve done is it’s, it’s, it’s the same art style. [24:41.220 –> 24:45.380] And I don’t know if any of the characters are exactly the same, but like it’s clearly [24:45.380 –> 24:49.100] leaning into its strongest thing, which is the art style. [24:49.100 –> 24:50.100] It’s super cute. [24:50.100 –> 24:56.220] And I like when they can do that and it works well because then you’ve got a love of consistency [24:56.220 –> 24:59.420] across multiple games, which is good fun. [24:59.420 –> 25:07.220] And also their art style works really well for stickers actually, so, um, yeah, it goes [25:07.220 –> 25:08.220] great. [25:08.220 –> 25:11.360] Cause it’s like all, they’re all kind of like 2D sprites on the world. [25:11.360 –> 25:16.100] They’re big, bold shapes, round cartoons. [25:16.100 –> 25:17.820] So it works great. [25:17.820 –> 25:23.900] Um, and it looks like you can just spit ball, I haven’t read anything, I’m just off this [25:23.900 –> 25:24.900] one trailer. [25:24.900 –> 25:28.740] It looks like you can even decorate a little house or something with your stickers and [25:28.740 –> 25:29.740] that’s nice. [25:29.740 –> 25:30.740] Yeah. [25:30.740 –> 25:31.740] Um, which is good. [25:31.740 –> 25:36.740] I don’t think we see enough stickers in video games like gameplay wise, like actually doing [25:36.740 –> 25:37.740] something with them. [25:37.740 –> 25:38.740] Yeah. [25:38.740 –> 25:42.460] Last one I can think of was that Paper Mario game and that one did not work well with stickers. [25:42.460 –> 25:45.220] Um, yeah, it’s quite clever what they’ve done here, right? [25:45.220 –> 25:47.180] Cause they’ve made the whole game play about stickers. [25:47.180 –> 25:48.180] Yeah. [25:48.180 –> 25:50.460] Of course you can then use that as a collection and base thing as well. [25:50.460 –> 25:55.020] And it’s still, uh, it’s not one of these things where your collectible is, as I’ve [25:55.020 –> 25:59.420] said multiple times before, where your collectible is just the same identical thing a hundred [25:59.420 –> 26:00.420] times. [26:00.420 –> 26:01.420] You’re getting different ones. [26:01.420 –> 26:06.380] So the collection becomes its own fun thing rather than just a thing to complete. [26:06.380 –> 26:07.380] You know? [26:07.380 –> 26:08.380] Yep. [26:08.380 –> 26:14.060] Actually I should, uh, I should, that reminds me of a very, uh, personal experience. [26:14.060 –> 26:17.340] So I buy card games and whatnot, right? [26:17.340 –> 26:18.340] Um, yeah. [26:18.340 –> 26:23.260] I buy like, I mostly do it for playing the games, but every now and then I’ll buy something [26:23.260 –> 26:27.580] like, I enjoy collecting, I don’t go after sets, but people do that. [26:27.580 –> 26:28.580] Right. [26:28.580 –> 26:30.980] But you know, the only kicker is, well, the best thing you can do is like put it in a [26:30.980 –> 26:31.980] binder or whatever. [26:31.980 –> 26:32.980] Right. [26:32.980 –> 26:35.740] Like it’s a, it’s a little hard to display or whatever. [26:35.740 –> 26:39.740] But anyways, the point I’m trying to say is back when I was younger though, in, in Mexico, [26:39.740 –> 26:44.900] I lived in Mexico for a little while, um, appropriate for this discussion, um, they [26:44.900 –> 26:50.580] would, one of the things that was hot for the kids or whatever, you could buy similar [26:50.580 –> 26:52.420] to cards, but they were stickers. [26:52.460 –> 26:55.300] Um, and there were like different things and you could buy sticker books and you could [26:55.300 –> 26:57.900] like place your stickers on in the books and stuff like that. [26:57.900 –> 27:01.500] Like I had a Dragon Ball sticker book that I fondly remember. [27:01.500 –> 27:03.580] Um, so yeah, good, good stuff. [27:03.580 –> 27:05.420] This uh, it leans into that. [27:05.420 –> 27:06.420] Stickers are fun. [27:06.420 –> 27:07.420] Yeah. [27:07.420 –> 27:08.420] Good fun. [27:08.420 –> 27:10.500] October 4th, that’s the fourth. [27:10.500 –> 27:11.500] Is that the right date? [27:11.500 –> 27:12.500] Yes. [27:12.500 –> 27:13.500] Tiny little sticker, tiny sticker tale. [27:13.500 –> 27:14.500] That’s the one. [27:14.500 –> 27:17.940] October 4th on Steam and Switch again, doing that, uh, dual release like they did for Lonesome [27:17.940 –> 27:18.940] Village. [27:18.940 –> 27:19.940] Very good for them. [27:19.940 –> 27:20.940] Cool. [27:20.940 –> 27:21.940] Yep. [27:22.460 –> 27:23.460] Cool. [27:23.460 –> 27:27.460] So that’s the three new releases over the next month and just a very, very fast rundown [27:27.460 –> 27:29.140] of September. [27:29.140 –> 27:34.780] We have Rune Factory 3 Special is out now, it came out yesterday when this episode comes [27:34.780 –> 27:35.780] out. [27:35.780 –> 27:38.860] Fae Farm and Sprout Valley, both on the 8th of September. [27:38.860 –> 27:41.420] Moonstone Island on the 20th of September. [27:41.420 –> 27:45.660] Monechos Night Market, Harvest Moon, The Winds of Anthos and Paleo Pines, all on the 26th [27:45.660 –> 27:49.860] of September and Wildmender on the 28th of September. [27:50.780 –> 27:51.780] Boy. [27:51.780 –> 27:59.780] I don’t, obviously the cottagecore space isn’t, uh, how should I put this, right? [27:59.780 –> 28:04.300] It’s maybe not as well defined or cutthroat as other spaces, right? [28:04.300 –> 28:05.300] Because like… [28:05.300 –> 28:10.540] Sure, but I mean, none of those, I have not taken any, like I know that sometimes I’m [28:10.540 –> 28:14.940] like, oh, it’s not really like, you know, sticker tale, whatever, but like that list, [28:14.940 –> 28:16.700] they’re all farming games. [28:17.660 –> 28:23.340] Like there’s, there’s no, no end, artistic license taken with them. [28:23.340 –> 28:34.300] The three big games on the one day on the 26th, whatever you said, that’s ooh, somebody’s [28:34.300 –> 28:35.900] gloves were thrown down. [28:35.900 –> 28:39.620] They like, they, the gauntlet was thrown. [28:39.620 –> 28:47.100] They, Paleo Pines looked at Monecho and then called them out. [28:47.100 –> 28:50.500] But you know, at the end of the day, Monechos Night Market is all that matters, so, you [28:50.500 –> 28:51.500] know. [28:51.500 –> 28:52.500] Yeah. [28:52.500 –> 28:57.260] It’s funny because I noticed today that apparently Winds of Anthos, I hadn’t noticed, doesn’t [28:57.260 –> 29:02.100] come out on the same day in Europe, it’s coming out like a week and a half later. [29:02.100 –> 29:04.860] And I was like, oh no, that’s really annoying. [29:04.860 –> 29:09.100] But then I realized, I’ll just, I’ll just be playing Monechos Night Market for that [29:09.100 –> 29:10.100] week anyway. [29:10.100 –> 29:11.100] Exactly. [29:11.100 –> 29:17.100] And we’re doing the Monechos Night Market episode first, because Micah’s busy. [29:17.100 –> 29:21.140] So it all works out anyway. [29:21.140 –> 29:22.140] All good. [29:22.140 –> 29:26.540] I am totally fine with that, but we’ll talk about Winds of Anthos later. [29:26.540 –> 29:27.540] Right. [29:27.540 –> 29:28.540] More news. [29:28.540 –> 29:31.660] We’ve got Disney Dreamlight Valley have announced their Cozy edition. [29:31.660 –> 29:38.780] I like the, I like the implication that the other versions of this game are not cozy. [29:38.780 –> 29:43.960] I will say something, some of those, that game gets, if you think about it, it gets [29:43.960 –> 29:44.960] dark. [29:44.960 –> 29:45.960] It’s like, it does. [29:45.960 –> 29:46.960] It’s raw. [29:46.960 –> 29:47.960] It does. [29:47.960 –> 29:50.180] So the Cozy edition doesn’t come with any of the dark stuff. [29:50.180 –> 29:51.180] It’s just cozy. [29:51.180 –> 29:52.180] No. [29:52.180 –> 29:53.180] No. [29:53.180 –> 29:54.180] Everyone’s not dead from the evil vines. [29:54.180 –> 29:56.380] This is a little bit funny, right? [29:56.380 –> 30:01.900] Because it’s a, it’s a physical case you’re getting, but with a download code. [30:01.900 –> 30:05.740] Oh, don’t you love it when they do that? [30:05.740 –> 30:09.060] But you also get a sticker set, a sticker sheet. [30:09.060 –> 30:11.460] Do you know about Fallout 76? [30:11.460 –> 30:17.620] I mean, about the game or like the physical, the physical, the physical edition of Fallout [30:17.620 –> 30:18.620] 76. [30:18.620 –> 30:19.900] No. [30:19.900 –> 30:20.900] Was that the same thing? [30:20.900 –> 30:28.260] It was a similar thing, but the download code, they actually put a paper disc in the CD slot [30:28.260 –> 30:34.100] to say download it. [30:34.100 –> 30:36.280] It’s just salt in the wound. [30:36.280 –> 30:38.860] That’s that was uncalled for. [30:38.860 –> 30:43.320] By the way, Nintendo, make your Switch 2 cases, make them smaller, please. [30:43.320 –> 30:44.320] They’re still too big. [30:44.320 –> 30:45.320] Right? [30:45.320 –> 30:46.320] Why did they get tall? [30:46.320 –> 30:47.320] Right? [30:47.320 –> 30:51.460] The case, the cartridge is smaller than the 3DS one, but the case got really tall. [30:51.460 –> 30:52.460] That is real. [30:52.460 –> 30:53.460] What’s that about? [30:53.460 –> 30:55.600] It got thinner, but taller. [30:55.600 –> 30:58.900] It’s like, they’re like, we need to use the same amount of plastic. [30:58.900 –> 31:00.700] It’s I don’t, I don’t get it. [31:00.700 –> 31:03.220] Like I, you know what? [31:03.500 –> 31:07.460] That is, I want to know the thought process to get there. [31:07.460 –> 31:12.860] I suspect it was to make it the same height as the Xbox and PS5 ones because it is now [31:12.860 –> 31:13.860] the same height as them. [31:13.860 –> 31:14.860] I think. [31:14.860 –> 31:15.860] Is it? [31:15.860 –> 31:16.860] I think so. [31:16.860 –> 31:17.860] I need to double check. [31:17.860 –> 31:18.860] Have I got one? [31:18.860 –> 31:19.860] I’ve got PS3. [31:19.860 –> 31:20.860] It’s PS4 and 5. [31:20.860 –> 31:23.420] Are they the same size as PS3 or are they taller? [31

Wonder what's the best way to pack yoru bow when you travel?  Wendi and Scott differ on this topic.  List and see what works best for you?   Check us out on Patrion! and Thank you too all our Archery Family that support us! https://www.patreon.com/RaisinganArcher

A Must Listen!  We had the opportunity to sit down with Lee and Penny Hetletved and talk about Parenting Champions.  Lee talk about coaching and Penny talks about mental management.  This episode is awesome!   Check us out on Patrion! and Thank you too all our Archery Family that support us! https://www.patreon.com/RaisinganArcher  

Scott and Wendi are not Nutritionist BUT we are parents that know the importance of keeping our kids fueled during a compitition.  We talk about what we do to help them stay hydrated and keep their blood sugar from falling!   Check us out on Patrion! and Thank you too all our Archery Family that support us! https://www.patreon.com/RaisinganArcher  

If there was ever a guy who knew the constitution inside and out, it will be Rob Yates. Self educated from prison walls, Mr Act Accordingly read and understood not only the words that make up the greatest piece of paper this country has, but he understands the intent of our founders. This was a great podcast and I know that I definitly learned a lot plus gave me some more ideas to research. Check out Rob on Instagram at @17seventy6by2 and there you can find his linktr.ee as well as Patrion. Find my Linktr.ee at Linktr.ee/ExtraLambo Tranont.com/cinmin Find your Rejuvenate Cleanser, Glow, Nourish and so much more at Tranont Snake River Rock Fest 2023 Lewiston Idaho American-WarFighters.com Need a new Patriotic Hat?? saintsandsinnershatco.com

Singer, musician, songwriter and author Judith Holofernes (of German band “Wir Sind Helden”)  talks about achieving – and then quitting - her dream life of a rock star in order to heal from burnout and reinvent herself. Judith shares the biggest lesson she learned on her fascinating journey, and also talks about growing up with her lesbian mom in a small town in Germany. Judith shares mama Cornelia's lessons on tolerance, openness, curiosity and willingness to learn, and keeping a wide view on politics and history. Judith also talks about motherhood, entertainment industry, writing, life in Berlin, and ADHD.  You can visit Judith on her Patrion, or follow her on Instagram. To subscribe to Ana's new "Mama Loves…” newsletter, please go here.  To learn more about "Thank You, mama" creative writing workshop, visit here. To contact Ana, to be a guest, or suggest a guest, please send your mail to: info@thankyoumama.net For more about “Thank You, Mama", please visit: http://www.thankyoumama.net To connect with Ana on social media: https://www.instagram.com/anatajder/ https://www.facebook.com/ana.tajder https://www.linkedin.com/in/anatajder/ https://twitter.com/tajder

We're giving you another look into our lives, a taste of what you can get on Patrion once we get signed. We don't need the baby momma drama/love nor closeted relationships. This episode is going to blow your mind so please share, like, comment and subscribe. Let us know what you'd like to hear next.… ask us if you're doing the most or not!!?? Email us @ Ayeyoudoingthemost@gmail.com … put in the subject “Am I doing the Most or Nah!?” Or send it in the DM!!! Please comment, like & subscribe.. Share with your friends!!Follow us on IG @Ayeyoudoingthemost- @BurksIam91 && @CinnamonJayeBlack History: @blake_remolding @thebsimone

Greg talks about rebuilding his first real piece of furniture, he reads your letters, reads out the names of super patrions and recounts some memories of friends he wants to interview for this podcast.  YT: http://www.YouTube.com/LoftyPursuits Candy: http://www.pd.net

We did an episode on SNL. Now here are other sketch comedy shows we loved Support us Venmo @singularity_productions Patrion patreon.com/retrocereal YT channel https://www.youtube.com/@retrocereal TP YT https://www.youtube.com/@thrashpondopons8348

Whitney Scharer's historical novel The Age of Light takes us from the glamor of Paris in the 1920s to the horror of World War II battlefields in a startlingly modern love story based on the true life of fashion model and gifted photographer. Lee Miller. Hi there. I'm your host, Jenny Wheeler. And today we have a treat. Whitney Scharer's debut novel. I know we usually do series, but this is a little bit special. It's a great mesmerizing portrait of a true woman, Lee Miller as she transforms from muse to artist. She's the girl who in her twenties, the former Vogue cover girl, who said, ‘I'd rather take a photograph than be in one.' Author Paula McLain called it "rapturous and razor sharp." As usual we've got free book treats for you. this week it's historical freebies, which we can down load here: DOWNLOAD HISTORIC FREEBIES And don't forget, you can encourage my endeavors on the show. We reaching nearly 250 episodes now, and it does cost time and money for me to put these on every week. By becoming a Patreon supporter for less than a cup of coffee a month, you'll receive exclusive bonus content like here in Whitney, answer the, getting to know you. Five quickfire questions. That's. Part of the exclusive content on Patrion that's P a T R E O n.com. Forward slash the joys have been dreading. If you can't see your way there to doing that, then how about just supporting one episode@buymeacoffee.com/jennywheel/X BUY ME A COFFEE Links to points discussed in the show: The Age of Light: https://www.littlebrown.com/titles/whitney-scharer/the-age-of-light/9780316524094/ Lee Miller: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Miller Man Ray: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Ray Lee Miller's famous picture of herself in Hitler's bathtub: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK1KUYTluTU Man Ray, Solarization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QITcY3W0mto The Lee Miller Archive:  https://www.leemiller.co.uk/ Anthony Penrose:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Penrose# Lee Miller's cookbook: https://www.farleyshouseandgallery.co.uk/product/lee-miller-a-life-with-food-friends-recipes-2/ Books Whitney is reading: Emily St John  Mandel, Sea Of Tranquility:      https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Tranquility-Emily-John-Mandel/dp/0593321448 Jennifer Egan, The Candy House:  https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Candy-House/Jennifer-Egan/9781476716763 Jennifer Egan, A Visit From The Goon Squad: https://www.amazon.com/Visit-Goon-Squad-Jennifer-Egan/dp/0307477479 Ann Leary, The Foundling; https://annleary.com/ Where to find Whitney online: Where to find Whitney Scharer online: Website: http://www.whitneyscharer.com Twitter: @wscharer Instagram: @wscharer Facebook: facebook.com/whitneyscharerwriter/ Things you will learn in Whitney and The Age of Light How and why Whitney came to write the book How Lee Miller and May Ray met. Their innovative photographic collaboration in Paris The love affair that turned toxic Lee Miller's wartime career. Parisian art world of the 20s and 30s What historical fiction authors choose to leave in or leave out of their story Lee Miller's son's work in maintaining her artistic legacy Lee Miller's later role as the ‘Julia Child of Southern England' If you like Whitney you might also like... Gill Paul on Lady Eve Herbert and the opening of Tutankhamun's tomb.. another bio- fictional story where truth was almost stranger than fiction... https://thejoysofbingereading.com/gill-paul-on-encore/ LISTEN TO GILL ON ENCORE Next Week: Encore On Binge Reading

The American system is one of divided and concurrent power. Where state starts and federal ends has not always been easy to clarify. A heat wave and a rebellion are among the many incidents that filled in the gaps. Most importantly, The Whiskey Rebellion went a long way to define federal and state powers. The actions taken by President Washington to enforce Federal tax authority, his behavior in regards to contentions of the Pennsylvania governor asserting state power, as well as the large size of the operation, all set important standards that help to define politics today.   We are part of Airwave Media Podcast Network  Advertise on this podcast: sales@advertisecast.com  Support us on Patrion - patreon.com/mhcbuyp Make a one=time donation - https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=KCK98X972XWWU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It has been said that a thin place is a location where the distance between heaven and earth has been removed. There are many thin places globally, but did you know that YOU are a thin place? Patrion.com/patriotradio

Aloha friends, it's Robert Stehlik, welcome to season two of the Blue Planet Show.  On this show, I interview wing foil enthusiasts, athletes, designers, thought leaders, and go into great detail on technique, equipment, but also tried to find out a little bit more about the person, what inspires them, and how they live their best life. You can watch it right here on YouTube. For those of you who are visual learners like myself, that's really helpful to have that visual content. But of course you can also listen to it as a podcast on your favorite podcast app. Just look for the blue planet show. In this interview with Alan Cadiz is we start with very basic beginner tips, the top five tips for beginners, and then we get into a much more advanced stuff as well. So there's something here for everybody. And we also talk about equipment, including what Alan used in the recent wing foil race on Maui that he actually won against other wingers that were less than a third of his age. So a nice work Alan, on that. I really hope you enjoy this interview. If you do, please remember to give it a thumbs up here on YouTube and subscribe to the blueplanetsurf YouTube channel. And without further ado here is Alan Cadiz: Allen, welcome to the Blue Planet Show! Actually, welcome back to the blue planet show. Thank you for inviting me back. Yeah, so we, we had a great interview last year and there was one of them actually, it was the most popular video on the Bhutanese show with almost 40,000 views on YouTube and then a lot of listens on the podcast as well. You always have great information. People love to hear about it. So that's great to have you back on the show and just wanted to catch up and see what happened over the last year. So what's new or what's the latest and greatest that's going on Maui? It's during the last year, it's just been more, more winging. We've had consistent wind all year on winging is growing in popularity on, it's still been quiet, with COVID winding down. It's not as many people as in the past, but we just had our first competitive event in three years. And what else is new? That's cool. Yeah. We're going to get into that more later that definitely hear about that Patagonia, kite and wing festival, but to get started like last year, I'm usually asked all the more advanced questions first that I was interested in. Hearing about, and then at the end I asked the guests to talk a little bit about beginner tips, but I want to turn it around the other way, start with the beginner stuff and then work up to more advanced things. Cause I figured that most people that are really into winging are gonna watch till the end or listened to the end and the beginners, we got to get them into it right in the beginning. So I asked you to come up with your top five tips for beginners to get into wink foiling. And you not only prepared some answers, but you've made a little video from what I understand. So let's start with that. What are your top five tips for beginners? All right. Thank you. Yeah. So I was thinking about those tips and there's so many different things. But I've tried to think about the key things and I put together a little timeline video here. Tip number one. And I just pulled these clips out of my inventory of clips and start on a big board. Now this is a winter Ford. We have a surplus of wind surfboards here on Maui on you can, you might think a sup board would be a good substitute, but you really need the daggerboard unless you can put strap-on fins on your support. I don't recommend using the support. It really needs to have something with the daggerboard now. And I recommend this for people who are just learning, how to use the wing, just to learn the basics on you can learn on a set board a foil board, but I recommend a large foil board to start with. Here, I've got Frank my, my pay here. He's a very skilled. And using a smaller board. It's challenging. So as a beginner, if you're on a smaller board, it's pretty tough to get going. And, in the extreme case, a really small board, it has its advantages, but it's tough to get up on the smaller boards and this is goes through the whole spectrum. So as a beginner, you really want to have a floaty board is just more challenging to get up. There are advantages to the tiny board once you're up. But in the learning stages, you really want to have a floating board. Yeah, I totally agree with that. So that's tip number one. So not everyone has access to the big boards on and. It doesn't because the learning curve is so fast. It doesn't always make sense to buy a big board. Maybe for some, they've got a big family or they've got a slow learning curve or they're sailing in light wind, but if they have the option to rent on, I would encourage that for the first, a few runs on a mistake that a lot of people make is they'll run out and buy the board that they think they're going to end up on, maybe an 80, 80 liter board. And it's a real struggle to learn on those smaller boards. You can do it, but it just takes a lot longer. So if you have access to a bigger board take advantage of. Yeah, very good. And then I just wanted to mention too, for people that have an old standard board or something, a big floaty signup board, there is a kind of a stick-on center thin daggerboard available from Slingshot. I believe that you can basically glue onto the bottom of your board and make if your board doesn't have a dagger board. And that makes a big difference because it keeps the board from this going downwind. If you only have the fins on the tail, the boards is going to turn down when, and it's going to be very hard to stay cross winds. I've seen people show up at the beach with the sup board and have that problem where they just go straight down wind. So yeah, that's basically I as tip number one, before you try this foil, learn the wing handling with a regular board that doesn't have a foil on it, basically. Yes. And if you don't have access to that, you can, learn on a foil board, but really get your hands on the biggest foil board you can get. Yeah. And I, I don't know if this is another tip you had to, but I'm also practice as much as you can on the beach before you get it on the water. The wing handling a lot of it. You can practice on the beach before, before you're in the water. Yes, I do have that. I think it's tip number four or five. Okay. So tip number two, you want to learn how to steer the board and turn around? Very close to the beach specifically, learn to turn around before you get out there on, so this is my daughter she's she has an interesting technique. She'll kneel down at the end of her run, do the turn on her knees. So she doesn't fall. And then stand back up. But the point is that you're turning around close to the beach. And when I say close, 20 feet out, get on the board and turn the board around 180 degrees to come back in. You don't want to get a hundred yards off shore and realize you can't turn around. Now I can keep going or I can keep going, or we can discuss that idea. Yeah. I think that's a really good tip. I guess a lot, I know I've heard of people, like they were so excited about getting up on foil and be able to go there. They just kept going as long as they could before they fell in. But then when they got way outside, like in Hawaii, Kai, for example you realize, oh, I don't know how to go the other way. Yeah. And why Kai is slightly off shore. If I remember. So maybe that's a tip in itself, you want to go in a place where it's side shore, if it's off shore wind, make sure you're sailing with a partner to keep an eye on you. Yeah. And then I'll also, it's a good idea to just if you have a place where you can just go down when, and maybe park your car at the other end, then don't have to worry about staying up when in the beginning. Yes. This next clip is all about staying up wind. And this is something that when I'm teaching my students, I try to focus on getting them to go up wind for a number of reasons. And the biggest reason is that you're not downwind. You don't have to walk back up or find transportation. You spend your time sailing back and forth instead of walking back up. So this next clip here is a little bit longer. It's actually a section of a video that I call maximum performance. This is the tip for beginners on turning the board up when, and this is one of my edited videos on, so I'll go ahead and play the whole thing. It's about two or three minutes, and then we can stop and talk about it. Okay. Great. One of the things I want to cover with quickly, this is more of at the novice level. And this is for almost the first time wingers. It's really easy to go down, wind and end up down wind very quickly. What I want you to try and do is turn the board into the wind. This does two things. One is it gets you going up wind. So you're not losing as much ground. And it slows the board. The struck is like a wind sock or a weather vane. It wants to point the wing into the wind. You can use this constant to leverage the board upwind or downwind by pointing the clue towards the back or front of the board. Respect. So we call the back of the struck clue or back end of the wing. And if I point that wing pointed down wind, it's going to point the board down wind. So I want to point the struck behind or in this case to my left, the more I aim it to the left I'm pulling here. The more it turns into the wind. If I push it away, it turns down with this is done while luffing the wing overhead and steering the board through your core. If you come from a windsurfing background, you'll recognize this as similar to wind surfing in that if you drag the clue towards the tail of the board will turn up. When you twist the wing toward the tail of the board, the wing wants to return to pointing into the wind and as it does it torques your body and board up wind. However, if you sheet in while pulling the clue back, the sheeting will overpower the steering effectively canceling the wings, torque to turn the board up wind, I'll say it again. Over sheeting cancels, the upwind effort, move your hands forward or sheet out as you twist the clue towards the back of the. You're going down when you need the sheet, it out, turn it up when, and then start simply stated left the wing. As you twist the wing to torque the board up wind. I actually really like how you explain what the weather vain and that, when you pull it the. The strike wants to point straight down downwind. And then if you manipulate that'll give you a steering momentum. So I've never really heard it explained that way, but it like intuitively we know how it works, but it's hard to explain it to someone who doesn't understand that concept. So I think that's a really good way to explain it. Thank you. I've been trying all different ideas, one way to think of the strep as a rudder or a guide. And you're aiming that guide to torque the board on a bunch of different ways to show it. And I even, I look at this and I'm like, oh, I might've might do that a little bit differently next time or try to explain it differently, which is I try to attack the idea from a different angle and try different ways. And on teaching this to my students early on, I couldn't understand why they were going down when, what was causing it to go down when, and even myself, I couldn't understand what was the technique to get it, to turn up, wind on until I started well, trying to solve the problems at night, going to bed at night, thinking that why were they having trouble? Why can't they do that? Yeah, I've been trying to capture it on video. Nice. Yeah. Okay, cool. I think we're ready for the next tip. Yeah. Okay. The next tip is more or less where you're standing on the board. So food placement on the board let's start with being off foil. So when you're slogging out to the wind line your front foot should be slightly on the Windward side and your back foot on the more or less on the stringer, as opposed to being this orientation. This is going to actually set you up to point further down. Or that is it's harder to go up wind in this position than this position. Now, the next thing to determine is where to stand on the board regarding the board's flotation. So you may be comfortable standing in the front, but if the nose of the board is curling, you need to move back. On the other hand, if the tail is sinking, you need to move forward. Again, this is off foil. And once you find that flotation point, you want to adjust your foil so that you stay in this position, as it comes up on foil, you can't be stepping forward as it transitions to on foil. So you want to have your feet in the spot when it foils. Okay. One thing that I've done in the past with some of my boards is I've marked on the board. Some lines just as a reference for. So I have an idea of where to stand before foils. Ideally you want to be comfortably on the flotation, but when it foils, you want to make sure that your foil is matched with that flotation point and having marks on the board, just give you a better idea of where to place your feet. Yeah, exactly. And if the D or does design well and you and your files in the right place, basically where you stand to float in the center of flotation, that should also be more or less where you want to stand once the board lifts up, right? Yes. Yes. You can put the foil too far forward in the track or too far back, or if you have a foil with a lot of lift in it on, you may have to adjust that, but. Yeah and then another good point you add it. And then in a different video with the was being centered over the center line of the board to cause you might be able to fly on when the boards on the water, if you're not exactly in the center, it's fine. But once the board lifts up and you're on foil, you have to be centered exactly over the foil the center line of the board. And that's the next clip here staying centered. I do have in this shot here, you think more of front and back where you're pressuring the nose down and you're kicking it up, but there's also the side to side. So that's this next clip here. Okay. We'll just play that whole thing. Okay. Some people are afraid to learn to foil for fear of falling on the foil, a legitimate concern. So let's look at what causes this type of. So let's look at the foil. It generates lift. The front wing is lifting up the back wing. The stabilizer is pushing down, but together there's force up through the mast lifting the board. Now it's important that you trim your weight for, and AFT. If it's too far in the front, you're going to stick to the water. If it's too far in the back, you're going to overflow. So you're constantly trimming the weight and a half, but it's also equally important to keep your center of mass directly over the foil. So the foil is lifting up. Gravity is pushing you down and if they're equal, you stay centered over the board. But often as a sailor, you have another force that the sail is pulling you laterally. So you need to compensate by leaning back against that pole. And when the. It's flat on the water. You have the stability of the ocean. So you can put lateral push on the side of the board, but as soon as it comes up on foil, you don't have that stability and any sideways push is going to cause it to in this case flip away and you fall towards the foil on your bum. And here's a couple examples, unlike windsurfing, where you're pointing your toes to keep the board flat in foiling, you're flexing your foot to keep your ankles at a right angle to the board, or that is your body. Mass is always over the top of the board. And the top means at a right angle. I have this drone footage, which really shows it, centered right over the top of the board, even though he's hiked out he's on. And then here, if you draw a line from the mast up through his center of mass, you can really see it here. So if you're not centered and I've got one more clip here of not being centered and you can see it right there. It's the beginning of the. Yeah, that's a really good point then. And I always like to tell people too, when they, before they try to wing and foil together, maybe just try to learn how to control the foil first. I guess even going behind a boat though is sometimes you got to pull from the rope, so you can lean against the rope. So you can be a little bit off centered on, on, on the floor away from the pool of the rope, if you're going sideways. But but just to have that feel where you can, where you're foiling on the board without getting pulled or without pressure, so that you understand that you have to be right over the center line of the foil and you can't be like offset, yeah. Trying to isolate just the foil skills. Th the foil is one way, but the foil is different. The board is pretty heavy, so it's not as responsive. As a regular foil board certainly the prawns surfers that come to wing foiling, they have the skill already going behind a boat on is good. But I have seen people that have learned behind a boat. And when they're out on the wing board, they're leaning back against the wing, trying to wheelie the board. And I'm like no, you can't leverage, you can't leverage the board like that with the wing, the way you can with the rope. But any foil time that you can get before you get on a wing is good. Yeah, I agree. So the next clip here is about wing handling. And that is we talked about it earlier about practicing on the beach and here's just a few things on. A few things you can practice on the beach, simple stuff like flipping the wing over. And this is a six meter when I'm trying to flip a six meter wing over in the water is pretty tough. So you can practice it on the beach. You can practice standing up, having the wing help you get to your feet. And the wingspan on a six meter, you have to go up to the wing tip to flip it over. So it looks easy and it's relatively easy on the beach. It's harder in the water, but that's something you can practice. And just practicing, like for tacking or jiving, just practicing the hand movements of flipping the wing over on, just leaning back against the wind and the wind. And this is something you have to do where there's a breeze. You can't do it in your backyard where the winds all squirt. You really need to have steady wind to get steady feedback, but this is worth doing, taking the time. And that there's in most of my instructional videos, I've got some kind of beach homework where you practice on the beach, whether it's the Heineken jibe or tacking or whatever. Yeah, no, that's really good advice. I think in a lot of times the beginners too, don't if you don't have a wig like a cutting or windsurfing or a sailing background just beginners have a hard time understanding exactly where the wind is coming from and how to angle your wing and relation to the wind and which way you want to go in and out, what's what direction can you go? And what does. You can't, you can't go straight into the wind obviously, and things like that, that's things people don't understand at first, I think, or don't think about really. So just learning that. And then also I like to get people to just keep the wing tip, kinda get the wink to blow to the sand, but without touching it, like controlling the height of the wing on the beach, and that, that's something that, that I'm in. I've got videos on that and all the clips here, this is just a fraction of the stuff that I have. And there's so much more there's so many more tips and these, I wouldn't call these the top five tips. These are just five tips in general on, and I also, the sport's still relatively young and we may look back in a few years and think, oh, we were teaching that progression where it's so much better to teach this progression. There's still so much we're learning about the sport. Yeah there's there's definitely the idea of sheeting and steering the wing on, I've taken a couple stabs at explaining that in one video, I have one video up there already on what I'm going to. I have another video where I'm trying to explain it more clearly to sailors or non sailors, and just the idea of sheeting in and out to catch the wind and spill it. That's relatively easy. But when you throw in the steering of the wing up and down in front of you, like you said, having the wing tip right on the sand and taking it above your head and separating those two skills it's a challenge to get people to understand that. It's really simple once you get it, but it's sometimes difficult. Yeah, you have to grasp that concept first and the I, and I like to even the more advanced maneuvers and all the different tax and things like that on your patron channel, you have like really detailed info videos breaking it down. Step-by-step into really easy to follow steps that very detailed and, I highly recommend that your instructional videos are great, and I think, those beginner tips are great, not just for the beginners, but also for more advanced guys. Cause you're going to have to show other help, other people that are learning and just understanding how to explain things like how to steer the board up into the wind. Th those are kinds of things. If you have a good way to explain it and to make it easy to understand that'll help a lot. Yes. Yeah, that's good. My following on Patrion has grown almost a 700 at the moment, or just over seven to 700 at the moment. And the range of skills on, there's beginners on there that are just trying to get up for the first time. And then there's advanced sailors that are asking for jumping and more advanced stuff. This recent video, the one you're looking at gliding on foil, that's more for entry-level. It's gliding is a skill that you take for granted, it's really easy to do once you know how to do it. But I had a number of students recently that I could see, they were relying on the wind for support and they didn't have the feel for gliding. Yeah okay. So yeah, I just find it too. I'm just, screen-sharing this now you're at your patron channel and yeah, it's 747 patrons. That's great. Congratulations on that. So it's actually I guess if you get enough people supporting you, then it's actually, you can actually make a living, being a virtual instructor, basically. Just making the instructional videos and teaching. Yeah, I so that, that seems like it really good business model for you, huh? I fell into it, with COVID when they shut down all the restaurants and airplanes and they closed the beach parks. That's when I started doing this and someone suggested I do a premium online video here on Patrion. And so I've been doing that for the last almost two years now. I think there's 20, 22 or 24 videos, instructional videos ranging from. The first time holding the wing to more advanced stuff like three sixties and Heineken jibes and that kind of stuff. Heineken jibes and the three sixties. That's probably the top 10% of wingers out there. I think the majority of wingers are working on basic stuff like this jibe here, that's George, one of our local sailors. This came to wild, demonstrating how to glide on the swell on. So this is a clip from the wave video on. So there's all different skill levels here and I've tried to try to address all of them. Yeah. I like how you explain how to I guess that's a challenging thing at first for people that are used to just always having the wing powered up and leaning against the wind. That to transition into not using the wing and deciding on the foil without using the wing wind power. So that's what you explaining it and just doing it kind of real step-by-step slowly getting used to this using the energy from the foil without having the wing pull you along. Yes. And if you come from a prone foiling background, you already know how to do this automatic. But for the prone boilers, I've got tips on how to use the wing. Yeah. That makes sense. And I think this is a really important skill for jiving because basically when you're going into the jive, you have to de power the wing and just surf a turn on, or, do a turn on the foil without using the wind power basically. Yes. That was the idea of it. So that angle right there that's, I got this new camera, actually it's not new, but I had to modify it for that board. Yeah. I just wanted to ask you about the the different handles. On the duotone wings, you have the rigid handles. And then some, you have some that have the longer boom handle, like this one, and then the new D-Lab unit that you're using has two, two separate handles. We'll look a little bit about the handles and yeah the advantages and disadvantages of having rigid handles and two handles versus one long handle and so on. Coming from a windsurf background, I've always liked the boom. And in fact that the first wings that my neighbor Ken was making all have booms. So we started with boom. I don't know if you remember the first echos on they had a boom and. The nice thing about the boom is it's infinite hand placement. You can put your hands anywhere along the boom. When you're flipping the wing over your head, it's really easy to feel where the boom is. You don't have to look where the handles are. You shouldn't be looking even if you have handles. And the boom is so much more rigid than the webbing handles. So in fact, most manufacturers now are switching to some kind of rigid handle. The handles I've gotten used to the handles, but initially when I went from the boom to the handles, I was grabbing in between the handles and missing and falling in. Now I can grab the boom or grab the handles pretty much every time without looking. I know where they are. Some of the bigger wings, the handles are a little further apart. So I've got to remember to reach further back on. That's one of the things you miss when you have the boom or the two handles. I noticed like when I come out of the jive, I like to grab the wing right in the middle with one hand so that it kind of flies. But it would be right between those two handles. So do you ever miss having that that grip in the right in the middle or you just get used to? I did get used to it. I did have that problem. I grabbed right in the middle and fall. So it, it took me a while to retrain my hands. I still prefer the boom over the handles, but these, this D-Lab wing is really superior. This cloth it's super stiff. So the wing is really tight and light. You can see there. It's just, it's really nice. So I'll tolerate the handles to use that wing. And so let's talk about that a little bit, so that new this is the Lula fabric on the new do a tongue D-Lab weighing, and then they also have the unit in with the regular Dacron leading edge and and strike. So can you talk a little bit about the difference between the two? And I know that there's a big difference in price, so I just wondering what you think they are the different between the difference between the two and if it's worth it for the average user to spend more, to get that well there, the wings are virtually the same shape slash design, just different cloth. So the yellow cloth, the Lula cloth makes it really stiff and light. So if you're into performance, the Alula is the way to go on the, I think the sizes are from up to seven. Or no two and a half to seven meter, but the Alula the D labs don't start until three five on, but you're really gonna appreciate the Alula cloth in the bigger sizes on, 5, 6, 7 meter that's in the light wind where you want that lightness and stiffness. Now, as far as the value on, money is different things to, it's a different thing for everybody. For some people money's not an issue, they can get whatever they want. I think as a novice Patty, my wife, her favorite wing is the SLS three, five unit on, I really liked the Fibo D-Lab I think that's what we're looking at here. Yeah, this is, I think this is the three, five, or the three meter SLS. This is one of her favorite wings, although she recently tried the D lab for, and she said, this is my new favorite wing, and this is my shit. She tried to claim my fluoro. I'll share it with you. That's interesting. Yeah, that you're saying that that yeah. Makes more of a difference than in a bigger wing on, in lighter wind, obviously. Yeah. Because if you have plenty of wind then I guess actually sometimes having a little bit of weight in the wind can actually be a good thing too, in some cases. It's not always the case that lighter is always better, but definitely in a big wing and light wind, it makes it, it can make a big difference, right? Yes. Yes. I'm not sure we're heavy is good, but that's true. But my thank you. You're gonna they're all good, but you're gonna appreciate the bigger sizes with the D lab and. As a novice sailor, you'll be fine with the SLS. I think you're going to pay a little extra for that performance in the Alula cloth. Okay, cool. Let's talk a little bit about that recent event you mentioned earlier, the Patagonia Caden, Wade Fest. You said that was just recently and there was a freestyle part of it and the race part of it. So let's talk a little bit about that event. I did a film, a little bit of the freestyle on, and I can try and share that here. I was the Patagonia Maui, kite and Wingfield festival was that canal beach park. And when I got my camera out, the battery was flashing almost dead. So I just filmed one year. This is Chris McDonald. He won the event with moves like this he's 16 years old from the Gorge. That's here's Kailani. He dropped in and he was doing moves. I'm not sure how he finished up. I think he made it to the final. I only filmed one heat. Just this Andre. He's a local ripper. He did pretty well. Wow. And I think also in this heat Otis Buckingham, no, that's Chris again. That's so you can see why he won the event there. Oh, so there was racing and unfortunately I don't have any video of the race stuff. But you told me earlier that you actually won the race event. So just tell us about it. I did I spent a lot of time training for it and I had some really good gear and one of the guys I sail with all the time, he says, when you're out there, I can see you're sailing with purpose. You're training for this. And I did. I worked really hard on it and I actually, I'm going to just show a little clip of the board that I used on. So I got this new board flying Dutchman. This is what that camera Mount I'll show you that. And then I posted this on Instagram clip coming up here. So this flying Dutchman is different from my previous board in that it's a little. Mark made it a little narrower. So I wouldn't drag the rail while I was going to Winward other dimensions, sorry. Or what are the dimensions? Is the board it's four foot 11 by 21 inches wide. And it's about 60 liters, 20 to 60 liters, 2021 wide 2121. Okay. Pretty narrow four foot 11 engine the board so that when I do touch down, there's more of a planning surface, the rails not digging in and on the back. There's no tail rocker, no tail kick, just a sharp edge. And this really helps to release the board from the water. Now it's also matched with a Mike's lab and I wasn't sure about the Tuttle box, but after trying it in this board, it's super solid. It's all one piece, no moving parts. There's no play whatsoever. It's just really tight. And then my result in the racing I finished, I actually won the racing event. Excellent. Yeah. Thank you. Then. You're probably not the youngest one in there by far. In fact, you could probably fit a whole generation in between me and the next place. When I went to the registration up in , it was at a. Mandatory. I went up there and I got in line and everyone in front of me was a teenager and I thought, oh man, what am I doing here? The older guys were in their twenties. Yeah. So one third year age. Yeah. Yeah. But I have to say that the Maui fleet and a wife who, they were a couple of people that came over from wahoo, both the men and women, young men and women, they're going to be a force. They've got some talent and, they were going plenty fast in the racing, but the start line and the tactics. That's where my experience came in. So tell us how that whole, how it worked at, what was the format like? How did this start work? W were, how were the terms and upwind, downwind, and so on. Tell us how that format works. They had a rabbit start that is that a jet ski raced across the start line and you'd pass behind the jet ski on and we'd race out. It was a close reach to a mark outside. And then from that mark, we had to go up wind to a Windward mark. So it, the way it was set up, it spread everyone out on and I had some good starts. And then the upwind leg, it was favored on the inside. It was a little bit north wind. So you'd get a good lift along the shoreline, which I knew from experience where most of the fleet went outside into deeper water where the wind was lighter and there was more current on there were. Some of the kids that Chris McDonald, he was very fast. He beat me to the Windward mark twice. But I was able to catch him on the downwind run. It was almost a straight downwind run to the finish line. So you had to zigzag your way to get down there. And Kai, I think he was able to pump downwind faster than with the wind, his pumping skills where most other sailors had to zigzag back and forth. And I was using a six meter. It was light wind by Maui standards on, I was using a six meter. So yeah, I feel pretty good about that when I think it's probably my last competition, I'm passing the Baton onto these younger people. That or I'm anxious to see where they take the sport. And I'm confident in the riders. We have so much window defending champion. You can't give up after the first time. No. I've yeah. I'm 60 years old Robert it's tough to compete 16. And I remember when I was doing wind surfing competition, when I was 20, I was looking to the guys that were 25 and I thought those guys have peaked. They've peaked at 25. And for sure, in, in windsurfing jumping freestyle, doing the leaps and having the flexibility, I think you do peak in your early twenties, more endurance style type of stuff on more in your thirties, in your sixties. I'm not sure. I think what I've earned is that shirt that says old guys rule. I think that's about. Experience too, right? You have, you got the experience and then, like you said, you train with the purpose and you're ready for it. So you're not just winging it, you're actually winging it. Yeah, yeah. No, it's awesome. I love that. You can still beat everyone, including the guys. I Lenny, that's pretty awesome. No, Chi is, I, he it was funny during the wave event, one of the announcers talked about Chi being a legend. And I thought he's, he is a legend, as far as his ability. There's no question there, but when I think of legend as an old, if he is a legend, what does that make me? Am I guess I'm a fossil, but no, Kai and all the younger kids, Chi's, he's so good at everything. And he hasn't really put effort into wing racing. And I think if he spends just, a very short period of time, he'll be on the top of his game. It seems like whatever he tries out, he succeeds, but there's a lot of other young talent on Maui. That, that is really good. And I, we have the amount of advantage in that we have wind almost every day you can wing. And with the waves came to wild is doing some turns in the waves that are really impressive and he's just getting started. So it's going to be really exciting to watch as this younger generation leads the way right. I'm stepping aside. And then I guess something, I was going to ask you to like, Yeah, generally two foot straps in the front and then not no foot strap in the back, which means basically you're not really jumped. You can't really use that set up to jump or not jump very high anyways. Yeah. Or do you most, do you just avoid jumping usually or do you actually do jumps with that sort of, I do not do jumps and early on, I made a pledge to myself that I would not take the sport to the air on. I had a back injury surfing, a compressed vertebrae, a wedge vertebrae, and my physical therapist says I can't afford another fall. So I don't trust myself. I'm looking at these guys do in the jumps, I've studied Chris McDonalds, flips and I'm like, I could do that. I know I could do. But no, I know better. The back there's no back foot strap because I do move my foot around a lot and it does keep me from jumping. I was just noticing in this picture, the leash, I have it attached to the foot strap because when I have it attached to the back of the board, it would flip and get in the way of the camera. Okay. So I want to show you my, and one of those retracting leashes that like, I should send you one of those, but yeah I noticed actually, why don't you keep that up for a little bit. I want to talk about the equipment a little bit. Yeah. I noticed you have the leash pug monster on the tail of the board, is that, so it's kinda more out of the way of your feet or less drag or what's the idea behind that? Putting it back there? Oh, sorry. Here. Rapid horse at flying Dutchman suggested I put it back there and it seems like a good spot. I noticed I do have a prom foil board that I use for surfing. And the Mount is, I don't know if you can see my mouse here, but the amount is right there. And I found as a regular foot surfer as I stand up, my foot would always drag over the leash and I'd end up standing on the leash cord. No, I'm not planning on doing any prone for them with this board, but it made sense on, there was one of the rider that had the same setup and he felt that the leash was dragging in the water. So I think for racing, especially to have a lease dragging in the water, it just totally doesn't make sense. Yeah. So anyway, but okay so yeah, the two front shots. That way you, the back foot if you just had one center strap you tend to have both feet a little bit off to one rail, right? So being able to offset your back foot more towards the opposite rail helps with keeping your weight center too. And that's one of the reasons why you don't use the back foot strap to ensure it? Yes, because I would stand on it. And I also found too that sometimes when I would do attack, as I switched my feet, I found myself stepping on the far side of the board to keep it from rolling over from scissoring. And the other reason as I did, I was using a back strap for awhile and I fell and tweaked my ankle. Didn't injured myself, but tweaked it enough that I thought I'm taking that strap off. And then, it also helps sometimes moving your back foot forward or backwards, depending on how fast you're going or trying to get up and light when and things like that. Right now. 50, wait a little bit on this board. I don't have the foot straps. Doesn't show the bootstraps here, but the foot straps I have, they're longer foot straps. They're not the standard eight inch they're about 12 or 14 inches on. I placed the inserts further apart so that I could slide my foot forward in when I was going real fast to compensate for the additional lift by the foil and then move it back when I was going to Winward or so I really liked the ability to be able to move my foot four and a half still in the strap. And I've taken some other videos. I've got a lot of different camera mounts. And in fact, let me pull up one of those camera mounts. Okay. But yeah, actually I did want to ask you about the foil as well. So I noticed you had that a few shots of the foil there too, but yeah, so don't turn off the grease screen sharing yet, but yeah, this particular clip here it doesn't really well, lot of times I'll do different camera angles and trying to capture one thing. And I realize, oh, this is a really good example of where the foot is, or I didn't realize the wing was this way. Or when I put the camera on the front of the board, it really shows my front foot, my toes curling up and down not so much in this video, but I didn't realize how much I was using the front strap to manipulate the board or leverage. Yeah. I find that, yeah, having footsteps just allows you to turn much harder to you just feel more connected to the board. So you get, you're able to like crank Carter turns that you have that those foot straps, right? Yes. And I did do some video recently, then the board didn't have foot straps and it was a performance oriented board, but I just didn't put the foot straps on there. And I found that I couldn't do the tax and the jibes as aggressively without the foot strap. So I do definitely pull with my front foot to pull the board around or leverage it this way or so, yeah. Okay. So let's talk about the foil, cause I think maybe the foil might be one of the most important parts of the equipment and like those Mike's labs foil, I know that like Johnny Heineken and San Francisco has been winning a lot of the races there with those foils too. And it just seems like he's going faster than everyone else. And so anyway, talk a little. Yeah. Mike has been making the carbon foils for the kite racers for quite a while. He's been making foils and more recently for, he's got a reputation of making the fastest foils, particularly in the kite race and fleet. Now I think he's winging himself and he's made foils for Wayne's specifically for winning. And this is one of them. It's the bullet series. I believe he makes an 1100 and 800 and a 600 and this is the 600. And let me see if I can get a little bit better angle of it on. So it's actually the smallest foil and is in this series. Yeah. Yes, he does have a smaller foil for kite racing, but it has a shorter fuselage and he's also got a tiny little race foil on, I think it's a four, 10 tow foil. And apparently I think one of the kite racers clocked 46 knots on it. Wow. Yeah, I don't want, I don't want to go that fast. So this the 600 sizes at square centimeters, like projected surface area or something like that, or this is a full-on top performance race, foil. It's not something that, the average person. Is going to use, it's very sharp edges on it. It's pointy and it's delicate, you bumped the bottom and it you don't want it. You don't want to scratch it, not just because it's expensive, but because the performance of it on, I used the Gulf soils and they're tough. They're tough on, I scraped the bottom all the time coming in, hitting a rock right in the sand. Sorry. I I just find it to describe it a little bit. For those listening to the podcast sites, it looks like it has a really thin front wing pretty flat with a little curve the tip slightly curved down or straightened out basically with those dihedral man. And everything's full carbon was the extended finish. And then we'll take it as a really long mass to it. Is that like a hundred centimeters? Something like that? Or how long is it mess? This one is a 96. Okay. They make a 1 0 2 and I believe an 80 something. I tried the 1 0 2 and I could see the advantage of using it on a coast run where you're blistering down wind and tall chop. You want to be able to clear the wave tops, but still keep your foil under water and going to Winward. I could really lean over, but going just a little bit longer, there was loo tiny bit of wobble in it compared to the 96. And and it, with the total box, it just is really tight. So I think this is the right length mass for me on it is. It is a little bit long for low tide. It cannot low tide is off limits. Medium, medium tide is okay. And you know you learn where the spots are, where you can go and where you can't. But the medium size is perfect for me. And the leading edge, she slosh and trailing edge is all one piece, which I think is one reason why it's so stiff and so tight. So the only place that comes apart is like great, right at the the joint between the mass and the fuselage. And then this is all one. This is all one piece construction, all one piece construction. There's two parts. There's the mask and the rest of it. And that you can adjust the pitch and the stabilizer. He has a system pretty clever. You put a spacer. I used a little nylon while. And you put that spacer in there. And then as you screw the three bolts down tight to the mast, it flexes the fuselage just ever. So a little bit, and that changes the pitch in the back, Wayne. A bigger spacer flexes more and gives it less pitch where it melts stabilizers more pitch. Interesting. No. So to get us set up like that, like how did you have to like special order and how long does it take and about how much does it cost? If somebody wanted to order one on it? When I originally placed my order on, it was a 12 week wait and they took my order with no deposit. And they said when it was ready, they would send for the check. And I told them that I was planning on racing in the store. And if I could get it, a week beforehand on that'd be great and we'll, they expedited it, they got it out to me early enough that I could train on it. And but I believe it's a 12 week waiting list, but I also know that they can, you can wait longer on, it was about $3,500 for the whole setup. That is the foil. I believe that included shipping. And at this point I'm putting it away until I do more testing with Ken and racing with Ken, trying to keep up with Ken winter is pretty tough. He also has a mic slab 800. And that's really why I got this 600 was so that I could keep up with him trying to test the wins. And of course it's a great race swing, but when I'm pre-writing and teaching I'm using the Gulf war. So I you guys obviously don't want to scrape over the reflux that on low tide or whatever. So like you said, it's Tragile and you don't want to scratch it and ruin the performance. So it makes sense. But would you say that was one of the, your secret ingredients to winning the race part of it? Yes, for sure. The foil, but also the board. I actually had some great wings to the D labs. And so actually something I wanted to mention too, like for the boards cause, cause it's such a thin profile and I'm assuming that it takes a as a pretty high takeoff speed. Like you can't like some of the big thick foils you can pop up at pretty low speeds, but this one looks like it would take a little bit higher speeds to pop up on foil. Surprisingly it, it pops right up. Now some of it's, some of it's my experience, but it it was later. During the regatta. And there are a couple of times when I, during the weekend that I had to pump pretty hard, flapping the wing and pumping the board to get up. But the majority of the time, I it's basically sheet in and go combination of the foil. There's so little drag. It reaches take-off speed very quickly. And that's the total box. And what about the star speed? Does it like, do you do you ever have a problem, like stalling with it stalling the foil or not really? Not really. That last video that I posted on gliding on foil, pretty much everything I'm riding this foil. It has a very nice glide to it. Sure. Surprisingly and I was thinking. On the windiest days that I might be able to do a set foil run with this setup. That there's almost enough volume. There is enough volume to float me, to stand still whether or not I could paddle it fast enough with a paddle to get up on foil on. And I've been out outside the reef in the rollers, luffing the wing and gliding for quite a ways on a couple hundred yards and thinking I could do this with a paddle, but once it does slow down, it's pretty tough to get the speed back up again, pumping it with your legs, but I'm pretty certain that 800 would work on a coaster. So yeah, the dominant paddling is something else I wanted to ask you about too, but let's finish the equipment thing here. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about the wings, the important importance of the wings. We talked a little bit about the board the foot straps, the foil. Obviously the wing is other thing that's really important having the right size wing and then the, and the right profile and shape and all that kind of stuff for upwind downwind. And talk a little bit about that. Like what you found that is works best for you. With the D labs are pretty tough to beat on, you probably know, or maybe for the people that don't know Ken winner lives across the street, the designer for duotone, he's one of the designers here. There's a team in Europe that, that works with them as well, but he's the main guy. And I'll go out and race with him. And every now and then I'll throw out my ideas about, what to do. And he quickly shoots them down. So he's really, he does everything on, I'm just a benchmark out there racing with him, but he wants to raise up wind and then turn around and race down land. And then we swap wings and do it again. And there's another guy that runs with us regularly. Peter slate. He is he's national slalom champion in wind surfing. So he's got some experience in racing and he's the three of us go out there and beat up on each other. But Ken really puts a lot of emphasis on the speed of the wing up wind. And really when you think about it, if you have a wing that goes fast and is stable, both upwind and downwind, it's going to work on, in every aspect. Being able to get the speed to jump, being able to get on foil quickly on. So he's got all these different parameters and it's amazing to me we'll go out and do a number of runs and he'll decide right away. Oh, this one needs more, it needs more of this or that. So what determines the up wind speed of a wing, I guess the drag, the depth, the approach as a cider profile, or or more attention, or what are the things that make it work better on up, going up when the stiffness of the frame on the canopy tension, the draft position on the amount of twists or leech tension, all those things on, that's really his wheelhouse. I don't really try to design or pretend to be a. I think the draft position is really important because if it travels backwards, then it ruins the upwind performance rate. If the draft flexes too much or moves back too much, then that'll ruin the forward propulsion, right? Yes. Yes. And when we get, he'll get a new wing and it looks really good and we'll go out and test it. And sometimes it's amazing. And then there's a clear, cut difference that it's better or worse. Other times they're very similar, but he seems to know exactly what changes to make. And the, again yeah, I've been trying to get Ken to come on this show for for over a year. And he's always too busy designing new wings and kites. But he said maybe check back with him and at the end of July. So I'm going to keep trying, I'm going to keep trying to get him on the show. He's a little bit, he doesn't want to be in the limelight either, so it's very interesting. Definitely trying to get him on the show and then, they just for those who haven't watched, the first interview that we did I just want to do a little recap that you basically grew up in Kailua. Like I think ki peak Cabrina was one of your neighbors. You learned to win wind surf at a young age and then moved to Mali, started your lesson business. Now, and our teaching, the whinging but w the way he got into wing foiling was basically you were doing downwind, foil, standup, foil, downwinders with mark, Robert Horace and Ken winner. And then Ken was kinda having a hard time getting up on the foil. So he basically designed this wing to try and you were kinda making fun of him for about it, but then you saw at some point he saw it and you said, it looked like poetry in motion, and you have to try it as well. Yeah. Yes, that, that image of him coming down, the swells is burned into my brain. That was the turning point. It's okay, I got to try this. And because up until that point, we were set foiling down the coast and we were waiting for Ken to catch up. And in this case, we were sitting there waiting for him to catch up and he came down the swell. It was just a beautiful thing. So that was when I made the decision to try it. And at that point I think flash Boston had made his own way out of spars. And he went out and did a run on the sup board out and back, got some video and then the wing fell apart. And so the story goes and he never put it back together. It was a novelty thing, but, and Ken saw that and he said, okay, I'm going to make a wing and try it. So slash Austin was the pioneer, but then can actually develop the first inflatable wing kind of thing. The homework. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't so much that I was making fun of him. It was more of my scratching, my head, what is he doing? But yeah, he's, I think he can be now there's one other guy, Tony Legos that I believe did an inflatable wing. And I think there might be some video of him out there on foil, but he was ahead of his time. It didn't catch on. Okay. Okay. So basically what I wanted to ask you is I, lately I've been listening because that's how I got into wing filing twos. Like we were doing downwind standup foiling, and like you're on a wall with the wind is not that good usually. So we were struggling with that, trying to like mediocre conditions is so hard to get up on flow and stay up on foil. So when the wings came out, that was just like, oh, this is so much easier, and more fun because you're always flailing. You don't have to struggle to get back up. And once you come off the foil, but Lately I've been listening to the James Casey podcast. He has like a really good podcast. Now about downwind. Foiling is really enthusiastic about it, trying to get people into downwind foiling. And I talked to mark Rapa horse in the interview and he said, that's still his biggest passion, even though he doesn't get to do it as much anymore. But I wanted to ask you, do you still do downwind, standup foiling, or did you give up on that since you started winging? I gave up on it since I started winging and not, I did a run with mark wrap horse and we did it late in the evening. It was really rough and he got ahead of me and I tried really hard to stay with him. And the next morning I, my back hurt so bad. I couldn't walk. So I laid off from it. But now there's some new boards that are coming out. Dave Kalama he's calls it the Barracuda. That's quite a bit narrower and longer. And it looks like it's relatively easy to get up on foil. And since I laid off the down winning the foils have improved quite a bit and I think they're easier and faster. So I'm thinking, yes. I want to try it again on, but at the moment I'm still wrapped up in winging. So yeah. Now I'm exactly the same way I got, I stopped doing it once I got into winging, but now I'm going to getting curious and hearing about the new equipment that makes it a little bit easier, like to compare it to what we're using. Early on, I think might be worth another try on a good day though. I wouldn't want to go out in mediocre conditions if it's the waves or the wind smells nice and clean and easy to get up on them. I definitely going to try it again, but kinda got out of it too, but yeah. Okay. Just a few more things. It's been our gosh, it's almost two hours already, but we didn't want to ask you, like in one of your videos, you mentioned rotator cuff pain that you had, like in your shoulders, and that's why you liked to practice the movements before you do it on the water to avoid hurting yourself and so on, which I think makes a lot of sense. And I can relate to that, to add some rotator cuff issues, mostly from Santa paddling doing like the molcajete race and training a lot and stuff like that kind of insane, like my shoulder. So I had to do, I was actually had really bad pain for two years and I had to do physical therapy and stuff like that. And I found some good exercise that worked really well. So whenever I have a flare up, I do more of those exercises and that really helps. But but yeah, I just kinda wanted to hear your side of it. Like what kind of pain you have and how you deal with it and what you do. Fortunately my shoulders have healed up and I don't have the shoulder pain that I was having. I, I was just using Advil and ice on and that would tend to bother me at night in my sleep. And so I seen it in Advil and then once I was stronger, I did some, simple exercises with dumbbells, these and that seemed to, to help lightweight dumbbells on. So fortunately I have not had any trouble lately, but winging is something that, that it might restrict people that have shoulder problems, that it might be a problem to do that. But the new wings are so much lighter and stiffer. They don't muscle you around like the older ones. So maybe that's an impressive. Yeah, but yeah, I think it's definitely a good idea to practice the movements on the beach first, just to make sure that you don't get yanked around by the wind when you know, like no unexpected motion or throwing you back, like pulling them shoulder backwards or whatever, lift up, pulling. Those are the things that bothered my shoulder. And I found there's a little exercise I do on the beach where I bring the wing up overhead and then back down, up overhead. And even behind me and back down. And I found that has really improved my tax. Just doing that little warm up on the beach. When I go out in the water, I feel more confident doing the tax. Yeah. And I think too I was watching on your patron child that when about tacking 2 0 1, I think you called it, but just like when you bring your wing over your head, just to give the clue little push. It kind of ticks over and lands in the right place to accelerate out of the attack. That's a super important thing to, to learn how to do before, before you try to do those tasks, especially on your heel side, right? Yeah. But I'm also, just regarding aging well and staying healthy and so on. Do you have any good tips? I'm almost 55 now, so I'm not that far behind you. And I find, as I get older it's easy, obviously get injured, easier nutritionist super important so do you have any kind of tips or things you do that, that help you avoid inflammation or like nutrition, anything like that? I try to stay hydrate. I do every now and then maybe once or twice a month, I'll take Advil or Motrin, if I've had a long day on, but I think just staying active, I started water sports when I was 12 years old and I told my wife that I'd been practicing for this sport since I was 12. And really I've my whole life. I've been fortunate enough to spend in and around the water surfing, wind, surfing, sailing, kite, surfing, paddling, I did them all Chi to Oahu a number of times with a teammate then set foiling and now wing foiling. Now it just and I probably put in four days a week wing foiling Fortunate here on Maui that we have wind virtually every day. And you can go just about any time you want, but just getting out on the water and staying active. And I'm a little older, so I am cautious to avoid things that I might get injured like jumping. And I try not to overdo it on my sessions, and an hour or two, I use a harness so I can stay out longer on. And with the harness, I'm not putting the load on my shoulders going to Winward on, but yeah, just trying to stay active, I'm winging. Foiling has kept me young. It's gotten me back in the water. I was kinda over, I was over wind surfing. I was over kite surfing on the prone paddling or the sub paddling was hurting my lower back. That, that motion. I was just grinding my spine and I but wing foiling, it's an other than the initial stages of climbing on the board, fallen off, climbing on the board. Once you get past that point, there's very little pressure in your hands. And because the foil is above the chop or the board is above the chop, it's like powder snow. So there's not a whole lot of pressure. And there's people out there that say, oh, you don't need a harness. There's no pressure. And that's true, unless you're racing Ken winter up, when, you need that power to, to drive up wind. But it's just really forgiving easy on the body. And I hope that I know I have a number of patrons and students that are over 70 that are foiling and being 60. They're an inspiration to me that I think I can keep doing this for another 10 years. Barring any injuries. I think it's, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a fountain of youth and it's great to see so many different age groups doing it too. And like you said, the initial learning curve is a little bit can be a little bit dangerous, especially for older people, you have to be really careful not to injure yourself in the beginning, I think. But once you get it down, it's really yeah, like you said, very low impact and not really that hard on your body. So it's something I think I can keep doing for quite a while. I'm hoping. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Excellent. Anything else that you wanted to talk about? Let me see here. So many, actually we never can you show us your new camera amount? I did. I did want to get back around to that. So you have this camera Mount that months on your plate. Underneath the plate Mont of the foil. And then it sticks out behind the back of the board. So this, I made this plate, actually. I had a local machine shop welded up in town on and displayed sandwiches between the foil and the board on the track mounts with the Tuttle box, I had to cut this groove to get it to fit the Tuttle. And so it hangs off the back of the board. And then at the other end, I have a GoPro Mount on it with a little floaty, just in case it comes off. I also have the gro GoPro floaty on there. So if I lose the camera and I've lost a few that's one Mount. So that's how you get that follow cam look like. It looks like there's a camera falling, like a drone coming in right behind you kind of thing. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's this action right here. This clip here on and I can aim the camera up to get the hand work. I can Mount it taller on. So it is, and you said you tried the go at the GoPro max. Like the GoPro max 360. That's the one I've been using a lot. It's like the as I get 360 lens, but then it takes a lot of work to edit it afterwards. And you said you don't really like using this one that much. So you use just a regular GoPro eight or nine? Yeah. This was the max and I found that it is difficult to use the 360. And I've found that generally trying to capture things that the regular hero amount or just using one side seems to work. The level horizon is really cool. It keeps the horizon level as the board banks right on. I also have a solo shot camera and this is. You wear this satellite tracker on your body and then the camera will track you Zuni and zoom out. And when this works, it's exceptional, I can shoot 120 frames a second. So it gets slow motion, but so often it thinks I'm over there and it's looking the wrong way. It misses the shot. Yeah. And I had a love, hate relationship with that thing. Cause yeah, like half the time it would work great. In the other half of the time, it was like nothing. All it, the whole session I would get was just like walk water without me in it. Like where I'm just out of the frame or something like that. I got lots of that. I've got lots of that footage, but when it does work, it's exceptional that I have irregular Sony 4k. I just got this recently, but I need someone to film and my wife has been doing that. I also have the drone. It's a Maverick too. Yeah, this is really good, but because so many of the sailing spots are near the airport. I can't fly this. Oh yeah. And then yeah, that's kinda my camera gear. But you said mostly you use a, this irregular GoPro like a GoPro hero and eight or nine with the horizon leveling and yes, I also have the nine with the hydrophobic lens, which is really good. So many of my shots are ruined because the hydrophobic lens or the non hydrophobic lens, particularly that the max, when water gets on it, it ruins the shot. So interesting. So that's a good one on the camera gear. So how often do you come out with the new video? Do you try to do it on a regular schedule or is there like a like a certain I try to put one out once a month and I'm gonna pull my patrons to see what they'd like to see next. I have a few ideas, but I try and get ideas from them. And then when I'm out teaching, when I see a particular pattern where a number of people are having trouble with a certain issue, then I'll try and capture that and try and solve that problem. Okay. Okay. So as the fastest person on Maui, what are some tips for going fast on a wing for aboard board? I'm not the fastest, I'm just joking, but as the winner of the race anyway first one on last one off first one on the wall. Last one off the water. You got to put your time in, you're not going to get good thinking about it, sitting on the beach. So that's the biggest tip is just spending a lot of time practicing it for sure. Time out there, you can buy speed, you can buy speed. You can buy the foil, you can buy the board, you can buy the wing, all of that, but you also have to know how to use it. So it just takes some time. Yeah. And that part is the, I think the more important part than the equipment, I the equipment is super important, especially at the very high level. I think where a little bit can make a difference. But I think for the average person, that's just about yeah. The technique and practicing it and to get faster, yeah. I think that's where you make them. That makes a big

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com   S3E21 TRANSCRIPT:----more----   Yucca: Welcome back to the wonder science-based paganism. I'm one of your hosts Yucca.  Mark: And I'm the other one. Yucca: And this episode, we're talking about adversity. So some of what's going on in the world right now, personal adversity, how we can deal with that, address that, and, really all those topics surrounding that. Mark: Yeah, every week as we talk about what we're going to discuss. The, the challenge of these times really comes to us. And it's not that other times haven't had their own challenges because they certainly have, but the challenges that face these times that we're living in right now are so extreme and so severe. And so ubiquitous that even, even. People who are generally pretty privileged are still impacted by them. Only, only the, the fabulously wealthy are able to sort of skate on being impacted by the things that are, that are putting pressure on us humans, as we try to live our daily lives. And so we thought. That it would be good to kind of come at this head on this week and talk about adversity and approaches to it and how our spiritual and ritual practices can help us with that. And just kind of trying to map out the territory a little bit on what it feels like when you feel threatened, when. When bad things are happening and they hurt and they scare you. And and you're, you're challenged in knowing what to do.  Yucca: Yeah. So one of the things that we could start with is thinking about when you are faced with adversity, with taking a look at. And really honestly, examining what's going on and what components you have control over and which ones you don't, because we can take things really personal sometimes that, you had no control over that forest fire or that hurricane or. Realistically the, the state of the economy, you as an individual, that's what the Stoics would call inconsequential. Right? Not that it doesn't matter, but that you don't control it. You don't have direct influence over it. But there are some things that you do have control over, your responses. Yeah. Mark: Right. And being able to make that differentiation, having the discernment is really important. And some of what's required for that is to be able to step back emotionally a little bit, kind of call them the, the, the panic feelings and, or, or the hurt feelings.  Yucca: Which takes practice. Mark: It does take practice. And, you know, the grounding procedures that we've talked about here on this podcast, many times are super useful for that meditation entering into ritual, trance states. All of those things can really help you with. Being able to step back and take a dispassionate, look as much as possible at the circumstances that you're in and then really try to sift out, Okay. this is stuff I have some impact over. This is stuff that I can influence. This is stuff that's beyond my control. And I, I either that, or it's only very marginally within my control. And so as I approached this adversity, I'm going to put most of my effort into the things that I actually have a lot of influence over. Right. I can affect my own behavior. I can affect my own mentality. And part of what, what is required to get to that decision is to abandon narratives that have to do with personal failure, personal lack of worthiness or, or a general sort of despair at the nature of the world, because all of those are very disempowering. You know, if, if you're, if the place that you're stuck in confronting an adverse situation is why does this always happen to me or It's hopeless. The world is just like that. Then it's very difficult for you to be able to make any changes that are going to improve your situation. So that involves working with that inner critic voice and with your own, self-esteem all the kinds of things we've been talking about throughout this podcast. You know, relationships feed us and the relationship that feeds us more than any other is our relationship with ourselves.  Yucca: Yeah. It's comes from a Christian tradition, but I've always been quite fond of the serenity. And modified it. So the, it goes may have the serenity to accept the things that I can not change the courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference.  Mark: There it is  Yucca: Yeah.  Mark: Reinhold Niebuhr.  Yucca: Right. And so that was a slightly modified version. Cause I don't want to start with oh God and heavenly father, because I don't think it's coming from anyone else. Right. This is, this is coming from inside. This is coming from us and our, our view on the world and our view on ourselves. But I think it's a really useful framework for that. Mark: And part of what it does is it. It calls on certain capacities within us, that all of us have, right. We all have the capacity to be serene and dispassionate. We all have the capacity to be courageous and we all have the capacity to be. Right. And those are the kinds of things that. we need to bring to bear when we're in an adverse situation. So really at the very beginning, there's that, there's that winnowing out of what can I do and what is unlikely to be influenceable by my actions. And this is a place where we differ quite a bit from. Rest of the pagan community because in the, in the mainstream pagan community where people believe in gods and in literal magic, they think they can influence stuff like decisions in Congress by having, or a decision at the Supreme court, by having a ritual and praying to their gods.  Yucca: Now, I think those things can be influenced, but with act with action, right? Not necessarily ritual.  Mark: Right. And we, in our naturalistic non-ferrous pagan science-based pagan traditions do not believe that we have super powerful beings to appeal to. It's all about us. We're we're here on earth. And when, when these things happen or change, it's going to be because we make them do that. We meaning humanity writ large.  Yucca: Okay. Mark: So this is an important distinction, Right. And to my mind, it's an empowering distinction to often have I heard in the pagan community? Oh, well, that's up to the gods. Which is a dereliction of responsibility. In my opinion, we do have a responsibility for the kind of government that we have. We do have a responsibility for for the kind of world and culture that we're building. And that from everything from the way that we treat one another, all the way to. Our specific activism in favor of policies that are more kind and more inclusive And more just. Yucca: Right. going back to what you, to what we were talking about before, though, another way of talking about this, that is all true, but none of us are the chosen one. Right. There is, there's not a chosen one who we individually are going to make that happen. And because the Supreme court makes the decision that we don't want, that doesn't make it our individual fault that we need to have shame about because we didn't work hard enough. We didn't do enough. We didn't, you know, we weren't enough, enough enough. This is something that we as humanity, we as a community have influence over, but we're members of the community. We are. All of humanity individually. Mark: Yeah. That's the flip side of this is not over imagining the degree of power that you have. Each of us is a powerful person, but we're also just. Yucca: Yeah. Mark: And so not having exaggerated or inflated ideas of your own personal influence or underestimated and discounted ideas of your own personal influence, I think is very important. We talk a lot about paying attention. In this podcast, paying attention to the cycles of nature, paying attention to what creatures are, are thriving and living and going through their life cycles at any given time of the year, paying attention to what's going on inside you so that you can grow and learn and and become happier and freer. And. You know, a more actualized person and that kind of paying attention is also necessary when it comes to understanding our limits, as well as our capacities.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: Where are we now? We we've talked about adversity and the discernment process. Do we want to go into, then what we can do, having, having sifted out the things that we have influence over?  Yucca: Yeah, I think I mean, there's definitely, there's so many different directions to come at this from there's different kinds of adversity, right? There's, there's personal, kind of individual challenges. There might be the interpersonal relationship between you and your partner or family member, but then there's kind of, there's other scales of things. There's job loss and sickness and. Those sorts of things. And then, and then really big scale things that are impacting everybody with like climate change and fires and hurricanes and, global economics war. So there's all of these different scales. But a lot of the things that we can do. On an emotional kind of spiritual level are going to be very similar responses to those in terms of how we can take care of ourselves. But one of the places we could start with is talking about preparing oneself to face adversities, because we're going to, you don't know what it's going to be in your life. Maybe, maybe you're going to be lucky and it's only going to be. The challenge, interpersonal challenges, right. But maybe you're going to have to evacuate in two years. Maybe there's going to be a car crash and not to be fear-mongering here, but these are, these are possibilities to think about.  Mark: Right. These are things that happen to people. Yucca: yeah.  Mark: And they're the reasons why people buy insurance. The. Where was I going with this? The, the step I think we can take after having made that discernment is to having identified what we don't have much influence over. We don't abandon that. We put it aside. So when an issue like climate change, yes, we don't have much influence as individuals over it. And. Believe me, if you've been sold this idea that it's all up to the consumer to solve carbon in the atmosphere, please disabuse yourself of that because there's about 500 companies in the world that produce something like 70% of the carbon pollution in the world. It's their fault. It's not our fault. And we really need to be active to be reducing those emissions because that's where the big problem is.  Yucca: All right. So, so focusing. Where are the points, where are the places that's going to make the biggest impact, whether it is looking at something like, okay, how do we tackle carbon emissions? Where do we put the majority of our focus? But that could also be okay. My family is going through financial struggles right now. Right? Where can I put my focus in a place that it's going to be the most impacted? Right. There may be some things that you'd normally wouldn't do you normally wouldn't let them have screen quite as much as they're having or something like that, but what what's going to make the big impact. So if I may on just a very practical level, something that actually, this is what we were doing in the house this week. This was our inventory week where we were going through and looking at all the stuff that we have. And we'd like to have about six months worth of, if we couldn't go anywhere for six months, would we have enough water? Would we have enough food? Would we have it? And you know, that took us years to get to that. We didn't just, buy six months of stuff all at once. Cause we, we're low income, tick a lot, but going through and going, okay, what do we need to, what do we need to be preparing for? Right. Do we have, we live in an area that has forest fires. So do we have a bag in the car? That has stuff for everybody, do we know where the, do we know where all our documents are? Do we know where there's cat food? All those things and getting all of that together so that, we don't want there to ever be a situation in which we'd have to stay home for. But Hey, that actually just happened right. years ago, we couldn't go anywhere. Or, we don't want to be in a situation where we'd have to pack up and leave. But if we are, we want to be prepared for that. And not like from a fearful place, right. We don't want to do it as like, oh no, we're scared. Or, that sort of thing, but from a place of, of wanting to take care of ourselves, but also. Wanting to take care of our community from a social responsibility place. Because if, if we don't have to take the resources, there's a limited number of resources for when disasters happen. There's only a limited number of first responders. There's a limited number of that. We don't want to be taking those resources that could be for somebody else who needs it more than us. So I really encourage people to have a little bit, you know, even if it's just a few, just look at. Whatever it is for your situation. Maybe it's just four or five days of water and food, things like that. Do you have a flashlight, those sorts of things, just to be prepared in the case that something happens, you're going to be in a better place. So you have that physical side that we talk about a lot in terms of self care, we talk about the health side, how do you take care of yourself and your household and your, and your community and your, your loved one. Before that all happens. Mark: Right. And I think it's important to notice as we talk about that kind of preparation. That means you're already in adverse. The disaster hasn't happened, but the pressure that the possibility of the disaster puts on you means you're already in a situation where you're dealing with adversity, right? Because if, if unlike either of us, you lived in an area where there wasn't a danger of wildfires, then you wouldn't have to do that kind of prepper. Right. There might be something else like tornadoes or hurricanes or  Yucca: floods  Mark: earthquakes or. whatever. But you you're, you're not concerned about wildfires because that's just not something that happens in your area. So I think that. Being aware of the places where we feel those pressures is really important, you know, understanding, Hey, it's, it's wearing on me that in the back of my mind all the time is this possibility that w is really negative for me. So. I've been talking about this almost a year ago, I lost my job and I've been looking for a job ever since. And just this past week had another job where there were two final candidates and I'm not the one who got the job. And I'll be talking more about that later in the podcast in terms of what I can do relative to what's out of my control. It is in my mind all the time, all the time that we're broke, we don't have money. We, we, we don't know where the money is going to come from to pay for July's rent yet. We, you know, we're in danger and that danger is in the back of my mind all the time. And that's stressful. It puts stress on us. So be aware of the stressors that are in your life, even if they feel like maybe long shots, you feel enough urgency to do some preparation against something happening, it means that it's stressing you. That it's possible.  Yucca: Yeah. So we've been talking a little bit about some of the. Practical things one can do, but there's also the practice side, right? So there is the practice of practicing grounding, right? Really just taking those deep breaths, kind of letting that tension out or whatever it is that you do. Some people use visualization with that, you know, imagining a tree or things like that are very, are very common ones. Getting in the habit of having something like that or having a meditation practice or having your daily moment in front of your focus, those sorts of things can start to build up some emotional resiliency so that when you are facing, whether it's those, those Those kind of in the background, low key ones that we're just talking about, that pressure in the back of your mind of, is there going to be a forest fires are going to be, this is the, the food prices, whatever it is you can be addressing those, but then if something does happen, if you do have to evacuate, if you have lost your job, if you do have that, blow out, fight with your spouse or whatever it is, you've got something that you've been practicing. That you can, that you can go to, that you can use. Mark: It can help bring you back to see. Yes, because we don't make good decisions when we're not centered. And often that can compound a bad situation and make it worse. So you really want not to make decisions when you're in the heat of the fear or the anger. That's just not a good time to be making decisions about how to approach the challenges in your life.  Yucca: Right. Mark: I find that my atheopagan practice serves me in three different ways. As I contend with the adversity in my life. The first is that it helps me feel better connected with nature. And nature is a tremendous solace to me, even though it is, you know, so beleaguered and besieged by all the damage that has been done still, the fabric of life on this earth at some level is thriving. It's, you know, there's still life everywhere. It may not be the life that we would like to be there in terms of endangered species of invasive species and so forth. It's still life and it's still turning its leaves to the sun and making sugar and feeding those webs of life all over the world. And to me, that's a very beautiful thing and it helps give me some perspective about the temporary and small nature of my problem. The second thing that it does for me is direct psychological calming. The, the ritual practices that I have, like, seeing my atheopagan rosary, for example, it's, it's good for my self esteem. It's good for my sense of the world. It's good for my relationship with my fellow humans. It just helps. Those kinds of practices and then the third method. And I think this is something we should expand on a lot is because it makes me a part of a community and. We talk a lot in the United States, especially about how alienated people are in this culture, families, splinter and scattered to the far corners of the country or the world. Families are not particularly intimate with one another. And often in fact, they're really at one another's throats. People don't tend to make friends after school, after college, which is something that was shocking to me because I have lots of friends that I've made after college. But in fact, I don't have any friends from college that that chapter has come and gone, but The sense of being alone against it all is really prevalent in our society. And that's just terrible. The way that humans have contended with every adversity historically through our evolution has been collectively as a group, you know, we've solved problems together. And we've supported one another in solving those problems. And so being a part of the atheopagan community, even though we mostly meet online, that has provided a tremendous sense of belonging and support and shared worldview to me, you know, a common set of values that really. It helps me to feel held and valued and seen all of which are just so important for us psychologically. So, and, you know, being a part of the pagan community generally, which is a, you know, a larger subculture similarly helps me to do that. The. The, the upshot of what I'm saying is that if you, if you're alone, if you're really alone, if you don't have people in your life with whom you can talk about your deep experience, that's something to work on because honestly, that's your lifeline. That's, that's the. That's, those are the relationships that will save you when you need saving and that where you can save them in turn. You know, this is what people go to mainstream religions for all the time. You know, there are plenty of people attending churches out there who are not necessarily believers in either the supernatural stuff in their holy texts or or in the values that are being espoused from the pulpit. But. It gives them a sense of belonging to a group of people who share something in common and can therefore speak a language that alludes to those things that they have in common and share cookouts and picnics and potlucks and study groups. And. All those kinds of things. You know, belonging is so important for us humans and American culture has just shattered us into these individuals. And individualism is a, it's a particularly pernicious aspect of our culture. It's not that it's not that we shouldn't develop ourselves and actualize ourselves. Individually to the greatest degree possible, but we need to do that in the context of a group.  Yucca: Hmm, it's a, how do they say a mixed can, right? It has some really really very helpful, positive things to it. And there's some others, like what you've been talking about this isolation there's, there's a lot that we lose from it too.  Mark: Right. Right. And, and, you know, in its extreme, you know, like political libertarianism, that kind of stuff, it turns into this very adversarial us versus them. You know, kind of mean-spirited, I don't care about you. You've got to take care of yourself, sort of mentality. That honestly doesn't serve anyone. It doesn't serve the people who espoused and it doesn't serve the people who are around them. It doesn't serve the society as a whole. It's just not, it's not helpful.  Yucca: Hmm. So that's one of the things that we can do though, is the seeking and building really growing and cultivating community. And that's something that can be helpful. Before during and after. Adversity. Because some, sometimes there's a lot of, of trauma that you're going to come out with and healing that in recovery that is needed and ritual practice, we talk all the time about ritual on this podcast, right? That's an incredible tool. And then also having that love and support and that sense of belonging that in itself can do so much to. Help with the process. Mark: Absolutely it, and what's amazing is that it can help with the process, even if it's not helping with any of the practical considerations. Like if I go to my community and I say, You know, I'm desperate and I can't find a job. There are some practical things that they can do, like increase donations to my Patrion, which people have been doing lately, which is a wonderful thing. And I'm so grateful to all the people that have pitched in on that. A lot of the things that they can do or things that aren't practical and they're still absolutely important just simply by saying, I see you. I understand your struggle. I, I empathize with where you are. I'm here to hear your, your, your struggle, your sorrow, your fear. I'm here for that. And. Too few of us have that in their lives. I think even within intimate relationships, certainly for men. I mean, I, you know, heterosexual men, I don't think are going to their partners very often and saying I'm scared,  Yucca: Yeah.  Mark: or I really need  Yucca: done as a culture to our men, I think is just so it's so painful. Mark: It's tragic. It really is. And as somebody that works very hard, not to be a part of toxic masculinity and that's always a work in progress it's like trying to be anti-racist right. It's like, it's you never get there. There's always more to be learned and done. But one of the things that I am very grateful for is that I. I have many people in my life that I can go to, you know, with my deepest feelings and tell them and know that they will be received well. And in the spirit in which they were intended.  Yucca: Yeah, what a difference. Yeah. Mark: it, it makes a huge difference. And I think. You know, I was reflecting on this about the century retreat recently because I've particularly a couple of men who were there, were talking about it afterwards as an unprecedented experience for them. And I believe that part of the unprecedented experience was the degree of personal disclosive, Venice. The people were sharing their, you know, the degree of emotional openness. And I just think that's sad and what's w and what's hard is then they have to go back to their lives where they don't have that.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: And I just feel like there's so much work to be done. But it can be done so much more effectively if we do it together. And that's why I invest a ton of effort in building community. Like-minded community, because if we can rally around a set of understandings of the nature of the world and values that we consider to be just in kind and, and right. And practices that we share together in order to enjoy and, you know, contend with this complicated life, then I think we're really getting somewhere. And that's why I do this podcast. It's why I do a lot of things. It's, it's why I'm in the nonprofit sector. Professionally, because I want to contribute to a society that is kinder and more just, and more sustainable rather than making widgets or selling widgets or transporting widgets. So. Processing widgets. So I just drew a complete blank. I had something and it left. I hate it when that happened.  Yucca: You had mentioned wanting to talk about your bigs. Mark: Oh yeah. This is something that occurred to me. It's gotta be more than 10 years ago now. I was thinking about wisdom and wisdom is an awkward word. I've, I've actually, I'm working on I've been working for more than a year on a blog post that will eventually be published about wisdom. Wisdom is an awkward word because it's kind of cringy. When we talk about wisdom, people get uncomfortable. They're like, oh, wisdom, you're going to whip some wisdom on me. It's used more sarcastically than anything else, but the truth is that as we age, as we grow, as we have experiences, as we learn things, as we discover more about ourselves, we become wiser. We become. Better able to make the Right. decision to say the right thing at the right time to extend the right kind of kindness to another person and to live our lives in a manner that facilitates our happiness and our growth rather than contravening it, or fording it. It occurred to me that much of my perspective on the world comes down to three axiomatic, big things. And I'll explain what those are now. And I, I just believe that if you can really get at a deep level, these three big things, your life just gets a lot better. So here they are. The first. The big. Okay. And the big, okay. Is simply acceptance of the world as it is. This world is filled with beauty and horror and everything in between. And at some level we have to stop resisting it saying, oh, I wish it were this way. Or I wish I'd done that. Or. You know, you didn't do that. You did something else and the world isn't as you wish it is as it is. And at some level we simply have to accept it in order to be able to encounter it and navigate through it. Now that doesn't mean that we have to accept all conditions. We can still struggle for justice and for equality and for kindness and for sustainability. All of those things are important. So I'm not saying, you know, that in this very Buddhistic sort of sense. We should just, you know, have universal acceptance of everything as it is, but we have to at least acknowledge the fact that that's the way it is. Right. We have to, you have to at least cop to the fact that, you know, like it or not, Donald Trump was elected president. You can argue about what the electoral college process is and all that, but like it or not, that's a fact. So that's the big, okay. And the next is the big, thank you. Which is gratitude for having been gifted. Highly improbable life that each of us has, the odds are astronomically against any one of us in our unique genetic combination and epigenetic experience of being raised would become the person that we are. And it is a treasure. It is the treasure of our existence. And so being able to get to a point of gratitude and seeing all of the many, many, many gifts of beauty and grace and generosity and kindness that we experience in our lives, everything from somebody moving over on the freeway to let you into a lane. To the blooming of a rose in your flower garden in, you know, on a given day.  Yucca: Well, and all the billions of things that you have, that, that died for you to be alive. Right? All the, every little sprout you ate every animal, every egg, every, all of it. Mark: All those sacrifices. And so thank you. Thank you to all of those things. Thank you to everything that contributes to my being here and thank you for all the things that helped to make it beautiful. So that's the big, thank you. And then the last of the three big lessons that I think that if you get them deeply, it helps you to be. A happy person on a path that that will help you to grow consistently is what I call the big. Wow. And that's just all at the nature of the universe. It is in and of this world, particularly the biosphere, it's just all inspiring that this is going on.  Yucca: Yeah. Look at your hand. That's exploded star.  Mark: Yep. It is.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: And it's got a a condensed ring of exploded star around it, of supernova product, because you don't get gold without those kinds of pressures. Yeah. The big, Wow. is something that I come back to again and again, and that feeling of awe is. Well, we named the podcast after it, the wonder, right? If you're missing that in your life, go find it because this is amazing. All of this that's going on is just amazing. And you know, I was a pretty depressed kid, but I remember at four years old going to the grand canyon because. Oh my God. Oh my God. The grand canyon. And there's no image that can do it. Justice.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: It's just simply our inspiring. It. It is, it is breathtaking.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: So those are my three big keys to finding a way to settle into life where you don't feel like. Where you don't spin your wheels on hypothetical's. You know what, if I had done this, what if, what if life weren't like this? What if this person wasn't like that? You know, that's a lot of energy that you can burn on stuff that just makes you feel bad.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: And my atheopagan practice helps bring me into contact with those three lessons a lot. I feel a lot of gratitude in relation to my connection with other people in the community and my my conversations with you and my The, the welcoming that I receive for my, the products of my creative gifts there, and just the simple listening and being there, and the fact that I can help to hold a space where new people coming in feel welcome. And at home. There's this something really lovely about all of that when I'm doing my daily ritual or celebrating one of the Sabbaths around the wheel of the year. A lot of what I reflect on is that, that sense of, okay. Thank you. Wow. Yucca: Yeah. Well, I think that, that those three big, those three bigs, the, okay. Thank you. And wow. Are a good place to wrap up for today.  Mark: Okay. Okay. There's, there's so much more to be said about circumstances of adversity and we're all feeling it. Honestly, we've got COVID we've got the rise of this. The mean-spirited right-wing, which has infiltrated our Supreme court and is threatening to take our rights away. We've got severe economic dislocation and many people are really struggling economically, including me. We've got We've got issues of systemic racism and systemic homophobia and systemic transphobia that continue to burn in our culture and stubbornly do not go away. There, there, there is adversity in the world there and it's  Yucca: of that. Okay.  Mark: yes, yes. Not okay. In that, I think this is acceptable.  Yucca: We're not condoning it. Mark: No, but okay. As in, yes, I recognize this as true.  Yucca: All right here. It is right  Mark: now. What, are we going to do? Yeah.  Yucca: yeah. What, what, what can I do as an individual and what can I not? And the part that I can't that's okay. Right. Not as a way of making an excuse to not be active, but, but understanding that we're, again, we're part of this community, we're part of the system. We are the entirety of it. Mark: Yes. Yes. And when I, I, I will say this when contending with adversity that threatens your survival, it. isn't reasonable to expect somebody to drop everything and go advocate on climate change. Because you have to eat, you have to be sheltered. You know, you, you have to take care of your family. We understood, you know, we understand all of that. It goes to Maslow's hierarchy of values and all that kind of stuff. Right. S creature, and that includes humans will pursue its survival before it pursues other goals. And that is part of what is really challenging about the climate change issue, because in late stage capitalism, where all the resources have been sucked up to the 1%, everybody is struggling and they don't have the bandwidth to address the crisis that's in front of us.  Yucca: Yeah, which ironically is what it's going to make it a lot harder down the line for all of us. Right.  Mark: so kudos to everybody. That is a climate activist. Thank you. Thank you for all the work that you do and to the elected officials that are on the right side on that issue worldwide. But also don't beat yourself. That you're not solving the world's problems when you have your own problems directly in front of you. it's not helpful and it's not kind to yourself. And if, if you don't take anything away from this podcast episode, other than this be kind to yourself. So thank you, Jaco. Yucca: Thank you. Mark: a good conversation. Yeah.  Yucca: next week we will be back already with our it will be our souls to sewed, right. Mark: Yeah. The Midsummer episode, for sure.  Yucca: Cause we always try and get it the week before. So it's not the episode isn't coming out the day of. So, that gives people time to kind of think and reflect on what they, what they want to do and all of that. So, We're halfway through.  Mark: Yeah. Amazing. We've reflect we've remarked on this before how the last two years seem like they're simultaneously 30 years long and like, they just went by in an eye blink. It's  Yucca: yeah, Mark: very odd. Weird. Anyway, folks, thank you so much. We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.  

Today we are doing something a little different. I am presenting you with two short bonus episodes that up to this point were only available to Patrons of the show on Patreon.com/historyofthepapacy. I publish bonus content regularly, but you can only get it on Patreon. Occasionally, I will share some of these episodes to both give you a little taste of what is going on over on Patreon and if the topic of the bonus content fits in with the series.You can learn more about the History of Papacy and subscribe at all these great places:http://atozhistorypage.com/https://www.historyofthepapacypodcast.comemail: steve@atozhistorypage.comhttps://www.patreon.com/historyofthepapacyparthenonpodcast.comhttps://www.gettr.com/user/atozhistoryBeyond the Big Screen:Beyondthebigscreen.comThe History of the Papacy on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6DO2leym3kizBHW0ZWl-nAGet Your History of the Papacy Podcast Products Here: https://www.atozhistorypage.com/productsHelp out the show by ordering these books from Amazon!https://smile.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1MUPNYEU65NTFMusic Provided by:"Danse Macabre" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Virtutes Instrumenti" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Crusades" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Funeral March for Brass" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"String Impromptu Number 1" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Intended Force" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Agnus Dei X - Bitter Suite Kevin MacLeaod (incomptech.com)"Folk Round" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Celtic Impulse" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/Image Credits:By Ariely - Own work, CC BY 3.0, ttps://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=4533576By Pam Brophy, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=9124089By ACBahn - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=33810833Begin Transcript:[00:00:00] Thank you for listening to the history of the papacy. I'm your host. Steve, you can find show notes, how to contact me, sign up for our mailing list. Dan, how to support the history of the papacy by going to the website a to Z history page.com. Speaking of supporting the show, Patrion is a great way to do that.We are@patrion.com forward slash history of the papacy. You well know the tears. Antioch Alexandria, Constantinople and Rome. They each have their own privileges and rights and the best privilege and right, is that you will be in included on the history of the papacy. Diptychs a fun fact about the college of Cardinals is.Bird the Cardinal of north America, bright red [00:01:00] bird is named after Cardinal. So fun fact. Now let us commemorate the Patrion patrons on the history of the papacy. Diptychs we have Roberto Yoren William Bryan. Jeffrey Christina, John, Sarah and William H at the Alexandria level, we have Dapo Paul, Justin Lano, and John, all of whom are magnificent Constantinople and reaching that ultimate power and prestige that on the sea of Rome, we have Peter the great Leonard, the great, and Alex, the group.As you well know, we are a member of the Parthenon podcast network featuring Richard limbs, this American president podcast, among many other great shows go over to Parthenon podcast.com to learn more. Today's episode is something a little bit different. I am presenting you with two short bonus episodes at up to this point.We're only available to patrons of the show on patrion.com forward slash history of the papacy. I published bonus content regularly. But you can only get [00:02:00] it on Patrion. Occasionally I will share some of these episodes on, uh, the public feed to give you a little taste of what's going on over at Patrion.And if the topic of the bonus content fits in with the series, which it does in this case, it's a win-win today's bonus content. As a short conversation I had with Gil Kedron of a podcast at biblical proportions on his experiences as a native speaker of Hebrew. Well reading the old Testament. The second episode is a short introduction to the second temple Egypt, Jewish theologian, philosopher and politician phylo of Alexandria bylaws work had a huge impact on early Christianity.He even likely lived during the time of. Patrion is a great way. If you want to support the show and keep the history of the papacy as a going concern and sustainable for long in the future. So I would definitely love it if you would consider becoming a patron. [00:03:00] I, and as well as I hope you enjoy this bit of bonus content, and if you want.You can find more on Patrion with that. Here's the next piece of the mosaic of the history of the Pope's of Rome and Christian Church.Welcome back to the history of the papacy in 10 minutes or less, at least we try definitely no more than 15 minutes decline and fall and extinction of languages, the usual life cycle of a language. It almost never goes the other way from death to rebirth. Hebrew is one of the biggest examples of a language that flipped the VAT trend on its head.And in a way it might be the only example of language that's flipped the trend in this bonus episode of the history of the papacy [00:04:00] and 10 minutes podcast, I talked with Gil key drawn of a podcast of biblical proportions about his experience as a native speaker of heat. Before we get to Gill and my conversation on Hebrew, I thought I'd share a little background on the 3000 year old history of this most biblical of languages.Let's go back to Hebrews ancient origins. Several thousand years ago, part of the Northwest Semitic branch of the Afros Semitic language family broke off and kind of started its own thing that was Hebrew. But Hebrew developed within the Canaanites branch of this family, Hebrew is very similar to ancient Canaanite and Phoenician, uh, and, and many, many, many ways.And a lot of ways that's indistinguishable from them. You know, obviously with its own flair Hebrew developed a writing system based on the [00:05:00] Phoenician alphabet. Both of these languages had no vowel markers though. Vowels needed to be understood from context in order to be read. So you would see a consonant cluster and a reader would know where the vowels were supposed to fit in.And that makes things interesting for modern scholars trying to read these documents, but it's, it's. It's not quite as complicated as it might seem, especially coming from a Indo-European language where vowels play more of a role and how words are developed, but that's neither here nor there. Hebrew was the spoken and written language of the Judeans and Israelites until about 200 BC.They wrote the Bible in it and wrote a lot of the Bible in it, spoke it, et cetera. Did liturgical rights in Hebrew. After that time. Now the lingua franca of the middle east became Aramaic another Semitic language, [00:06:00] similar enough to Hebrew, but definitely its own thing. And the Aramaic took on more popularity.So for example, Jesus, in the early part of the common IRO spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew as his day-to-day language. At this point, Hebrew essentially died as a spoken language. It remained a literary and liturgical language. Of course, though, Hebrew was well and truly dead though, as a spoken language and compare that to say Latin Latin never really died as a spoken language.Classical Latin was from frozen in time. But the spoken language of vulgar Latin, the language of the people slowly changed into Italian, Portuguese, Spanish. Walloon the V-Loc or hundreds of other languages that just over time languages change this common tongue of vulgar Latin slowly changed, [00:07:00] slowly changed one and Wallonia and changed into a balloon in Romania.It got separated from the body of other. Romance languages and kind of did its own thing. And that's just a natural progress of language. Hebrew. Didn't do this though. It stayed locked in time. Hebrew was used liturgically, but as a liturgical language, not as a spoken language and that's different. Jews spoke the local language of where they lived.If they were in Spain, they spoke Spanish and Germany. They spoke German and England or the United States. They spoke English. A lot of them in the middle east kept speaking Aramaic. They also spoke Arabic. You name it. Jews around the world, use liturgical Hebrew in their prayers, reading Torah, the Mishnah and other texts.They also spiced up their spoken language, such as English, German, et cetera, with a different, what you might [00:08:00] call Hebrew isms. They would put in little bits of Hebrew, Hebrew idiom into their language. There was so much spicing up that the languages, the Jews spoke can, in some cases almost be considered a separate language.Yiddish. For example, Yiddish is very close to modern standard German. It's different enough that if you really truly want to speak Yiddish, you have to learn it. You have to learn slightly different pronunciations. You have to learn idioms, et cetera. The next phase of Hebrew is in the early middle ages, a group of Jewish scholars, the Mazza reads codafide

In this week's episode, we take a deep dive into the VERY dark side of Baby Formula. What the scientific evidence says, the exact side effects of the most common ingredients according to medical research, and the long-term side effects of long-term usage; which include a lower average IQ and an overall 50% INCREASE in morbidity. The sad reality is that much of our nation has been convinced through malicious marketing that this convenient pharmaceutical product is a replacement for the miracle of a Mothers body, and they are DEAD wrong. We also discuss Jen Psaki's farewell to the White House Press secretary position as she eyes a 7-figure contract with Blackrock and Vanguard owned Comcast company MSNBC and take a listen in on the terrible first day on the job her replacement had. Subscribe and leave a 5-star review today! ----more---- Protect your family and support the Red Pill Revolution Podcast with Affordable Life Insurance. This is attached to my license and not a third-party ad! Go to https://agents.ethoslife.com/invite/3504a now! Currently available in AZ, MI, MO, LA, NC, OH, IN, TN, WV Email redpillrevolt@protonmail.com if you would like to sign up in a different state  For all the articles, videos, and documents discussed on this week's podcast join our substack!  Podcast Companion Substack: https://redpillrevolution.substack.com ----more---- Please consider leaving a donation for all of the hard work that goes into this podcast. I love doing what I do and can only continue through your generosity and support!  Donate https://givesendgo.com/redpillrevolution  ----more----   Full Transcription: Welcome to red pill revolution. My name is Austin Adams. Red pill revolution started out with me realizing every thing that I knew, everything that I believed, everything I interpret about my life is through the lens of the information I was spoonfed as a child, religion, politics, history, conspiracies, Hollywood medicine, money, food, all of it, everything we know was tactfully written to influence your decisions and your view on reality by those in power. Now I'm on a mission, a mission to retrain and reeducate myself to find the true reality of what is behind that curtain. And I'm taking your ass with me. Welcome to the rebel. Hello, and welcome to red pill revolution. My name is Austin Adams. Thank you so much for listening today. I am very, very interested to get into this discussion with you guys today. Again, this is episode number 28, and we're going to be tackling some interesting topics. There's been some really interesting happenings over the last few, I guess, week or so since we discussed the 2000 mules documentary. So I'm very interested to get into some of these discussions a little bit. That last episode that we did was kind of a really deep dive into a singular topic, whereas we'll kind of get back to some more current events some more interesting things that have been going on over the last couple of weeks, including the change of the white house, press secretary. And where our last, most beloved pisarski went. I guess that's how you pronounce her name. Maybe I get it right now that she's left office, but that will be one of the topics that we discuss is where did she go? Why did she go there in who is replacing her? And we'll actually listen into some of the clips from the very first white house press briefing that she did. We're also going to go into a deeper discussion surrounding the baby formula shortage. That is right there is allegedly a shortage of baby formula. And meanwhile, Joe Biden is shutting down and the FDA is shutting down some of the largest plants in the country. And we'll discuss if you should even be giving your baby formula, we'll talk about who made the formula. What's in the form of. And maybe some of the side effects and the actual statistical outcomes of using baby formula, which is quite terrifying. So we're going to discuss all of that and more today. So thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you from the bottom of my heart, really, truly. I love doing this. It means so much to me. So thank you so much for being a part of it. Every single week, I plan on getting better. I plan on taking a deeper dive into some of these topics and doing everything I can to put out the best content possible. If there's anything at all that you can think of that I can do to make this podcast better, please let me know, send me a message wherever you can find me at. He'll revolt. All right. While you're doing that. Well, maybe if you're not doing that even go ahead and hit that subscribe button right now, whether you're on apple podcasts, whether you're on Spotify, Google podcasts, wherever the hell, you get your podcasts, go ahead and hit that subscribe button. For me, it would mean the world. That means that you're just going to follow along on this journey of us diving deeper into each one of these topics, right? And today I think is a really important discussion, whether you have kids or not, your ass was a baby at one point or another. And the likelihood of you having children, just like every single ancestor that you've had before you having children is generally quite high. So this is a really important discussion, whether you have children now, whether you don't have children, whether you've already had children and you're you're in a later stage of life, this is something that we should really be advocating for them. It's a really a. Interesting topic discussing the history of even these things. But anyways, I'm, I'm going too far off topic. Go ahead and hit that subscribe button. It takes two seconds. It gives you a, a very beautiful, good feeling. Know that you've done something for somebody else today to join me on this journey. I appreciate you so much. Then when you're done with that, go ahead and hit that five star review. Some jerk left, a four star review. What is that about? This is a five star podcast. If you think there's anything less, you need to send me a message and tell me what I can do to make it better. No need to leave a review that does not. What will help is if you send me a message, truly, honestly, if there's anything I can do to make this better, go ahead and send me a message. I would love to do that for you, but if you think this is a five-star podcast and only if you think this is a pie, five star podcast, leave a five-star review, write something nice in the reviews for me, tell me your favorite episode. Tell me whatever it is that you learned from this podcast. Whatever it is. Go ahead and leave that five star review. Alright, done. Written, done rambling. That's all I got. All right, so let's go ahead and dive deep into this topic. The first one we're going to be looking at, I think is a little interesting. There's been some, some recent clips of Kamala Harris that have come out where she is just going on and babbling can barely put together an entire sentence, repeating herself over and over again. And just kind of like this weird, I don't know if somebody did this in a conversation with you, you would probably be a little puzzled, right? So let's go ahead and watch our first clip today, which is going to become a Harris. Now this is a clip from a month. Where she discusses the passage of time, speaking of passages of time during the time that she repeats herself in this, you know, probably a minute and a half, two minutes goes by just over and over again. So really just kind of, you know, we, we always talk about the difficulty that Joe Biden has speaking, but we need to put more attention on the vice-president and how much of an idiot she is as well, because this is really I don't know, I've just never, I've never really seen somebody talk in this manner. That's being serious, especially on a political platform, let alone the second to the world leader of basically the most powerful country allegedly in the world. So here is our vice-president Eleanor and I, and we were all doing a tour of the library here. And I'm talking about the significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is a great significance to the passage of time in terms of what we need to do to lay these wires, what we need to do to create these jobs. And there is such great significance to the passage of time when we think about a day in the life of, oh my gosh. So, so just over and over again, when you think about the passage of time and, and you, you wonder about how time really does pass now, during the time that I've been speaking about this, there has been such a passage of time that you and I both perceive said passage through the timeframe in which we are passing. And in that timeframe, we shall pass this passage together in time. What is this really the best that we can do as a nation, right? Like there's some real, like, I don't claim to be the smartest guy in the room in most rooms. Then some I'll claim to be the smartest guy, but a lot of rooms, I don't claim to be the smartest guy. Right. The same goes, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, right. You should probably find a more, more intelligent people to be around if you're the smartest guy. So I don't claim to be the smartest guy in the room, but what I know is I can finish a sentence, right? I, I it's, it's crazy to me that out of everybody in our country, there's Harvard professors, there's, you know, unbelievable political you know, powerful individuals who have, who are profound speeches in, in, in the ability to move mountains with their words. And this is who we pay. This is what you have for me. This is, this is who we voted for with the passage of time or who we didn't vote for. If you watched the last episode. And if he didn't listen to the last episode, you should go watch it. Cause that's crazy. Because apparently we didn't actually vote these people in office, according to this documentary and some of the statistics that true the vote came out with. Anyways, but I digress. It's unbelievable to me that this is the best and brightest that the United States could find. This is both in an 87 year old geriatric blubbering dementia written, you know, and I don't even feel like insulting Joe Biden that much. Like it really is just kind of sad. Right? It's it's, it's, it's sad to see, you know, it's like you could put your grandpa or your, I guess even your great grandpa in some instances in the position of Joe Biden and. And start to feel bad for this guy. The fact that his wife like pushes him up there and then HESTA hold his hand to show him where to go and when to answer questions. And it's, it's almost sad now, now what's not sad about it is this man has been in politics for 45 years and that he has taken all sorts of money from, you know, the China's and the rushes in the funnel, it through Ukraine. And now he's pushing hundreds of bits. So it definitely plays a part. But to me, it's mostly just sad, right? Because anybody could put their blubbering dementia written grandpa in the office and then see the effects of this. Now Kamala Harris is a different story. This woman is fully capable. She's what I don't know. 48 something, I don't know, 55 in that 48 to 55 range, probably she should be capable of completing a sentence in a coherent manner, right. Without all the ums and the AHS and the, this and the, that, and the, the repeating of sentences, w like she should be able to use her consciousness to come up with a full thought and be able to like, imagine your teacher rambling on like that in high school, you'd be like, what the fuck is this person even saying? So anyways, that was the first clip that was about a month ago. Now the most recent clip is the one that we're about to watch here. And this one is just as bad, just as bad as that last one only, I think it's even a little bit longer. So let's go ahead and watch this clip and see what our vice vice-president has to say this time. I often note, and I've talked with many of you about our shared belief that our world is increasingly more interconnected and interdependent. That is especially true when it comes to the climate crisis, which is why we will work together and continue to work together to address these issues, to tackle these challenges and to work together. As we continue to work operating from the new norms, rules, and agreements that we will convene to work together on to galvanize global action, we will, we will work together and we will continue working together to work towards the same goal together in our togetherness towards this goal together. Again, I just, I don't get it. How can you not, how can you not complete a sentence? How can you not fully finish a thought? Right. Like in any situation, like I think the white house press secretary probably has a much more difficult job than the president in this situation to actually have to verbalize and answered in a long form format. Some of the questions that these people have to deal with now, now the she's literally reading from something, right. It's almost like, you know, she, they, they put a topic into a Google or something and it just spit out words onto a word document. And then she said you know, th what are the key words that we want to hit here? Well, working together. Okay. Well, and then it just started repeating itself over and over and over again. And she just started like, it's, it reminds me of a, what is it? The exact elephant academic. Where I'm pretty sure there's a scene where he has like a teleprompter in front of him. Is that a pretty sure it's that one where he has inside of Zack alpha that cause her welfare where there's a teleprompter in front of him and no, it's, it's it's Ron burgundy, anchorman, Ron burgundy, anchorman, where he has the teleprompter in front of him. And he's reading off this speech and it's like all wrong and it's like, hilarious. I'll have to find the clip and I'll post it. Cause it's, it's so funny, but who in the world are these speech writers? Like they need to be demoted, right? And again, how is this the best and the brightest that we can find for speech writers, then she's sitting there reading a piece of paper and still cannot form a coherent thoughts around surrounding this topic. It's it's so baffling to me that these, this is our leadership, right? Like at least give me somebody competent, right? Oh, Barack Obama. For all of his corruption and all of the shitty policies that were passed, had the ability to form a sentence. It's literally a comedy. The United States is a comedy right now with the people that we have in office. You could literally put together a set, the satire season of shows, showing how ridiculous it is that this is who we chose for our world leadership. And you would only have to turn the knob by like 15%, like literally just a little bit 15% would get you to a point where it would be a legitimate satirical comedy from where it is right now today. And right now it's just sad. It's just a little sad to me that this is who we have representing our great names. Like, again, I'll always fall back to this. I'm a Patriot. I believe in what our constitution stands for. I believe in what the American flag stands for. I believe that we are the greatest nation of people. In the world. I do believe that when a hundred percent, I believe we're a great nation full of great culture. And it's been hijacked by a bunch of, multibillionaires who have put puppets into office. And in this case they just did it with the wrong, like incoherent, blubbering, idiots, like, and so again, I don't want to sound like I'm just crushing or speaking negatively consistently about the United States, I believe in the United States and what we stand for. I don't believe in this government, I don't believe in these, these individuals who are running our country. And to me, it's just sad that, that this is who is facing us, are facing out, who is representing us on the world stage, who is going to these meetings, who is meeting with the, you know, world leaders at these global meetings. Like the, you know, Davos, which is coming up. If you don't know what data. I did a deep dive episode onto the world economic forum in Davos and what their agenda is, their 20, 30 agenda should look into that is a really interesting topic. But, but the leadership that they've put into office to me is just unbelievably stupid. And, and the fact that neither of them, neither of them could pass a sixth grade public speaking class with the way that they speak to the entire world on the biggest world platform, that there is, how is this the best that we have? It's not, obviously we all know that this is not the best that we have, but why are we not finding the best that we is this a legitimate, purposeful attempt to run our nation into the ground? Like what, what, what are we doing here? Why, why has it turned into this? You know, like what, why, why are we so, humiliated on this stage right now? Why, why are. Why is everybody not looking at these conversations and being just completely demoralized with who is representing us to the public and maybe they are, maybe the left has gotten to a point now where they are a little fed up with the, the, the, you know, at least the inability to form a coherent sentence, hopefully. But I don't know. It's really sad to me that this is who's representing us on the world stage. Now, speaking of who was representing us or representing these people, at least who was supposed to be the people who could actually speak on their behalf and form a coherent sentence in, in circle back to the actual answers. Eventually let's talk about Jen  and again, every time I say that word, I literally have no idea how to say her stupid name.  Said her final goodbyes as the white house press secretary and oh, so sad. Just like shit. I had to cry. That she had to leave the office and be ridiculed by everybody the entire time for the way that she approached these questions. So here is, is pisarski saying her final goodbye as the white house press secretary. And as we'll find out later, as she leaves for a horrible, very sad transition to a multimillion dollar deal with MSNBC. Hm. More on that in the. But before we do that, I do have an announcement to make. All right. I have found a way to start to be able to put some more time, energy, and effort into this, and I hope you guys enjoy it. I hope it's something that works out for you guys as well. What I am talking about. So as I've, hadn't been having this conversation surrounding, you know, trying to figure out ways to monetize this podcast, also not implementing like, you know, men's depends, underwear where, you know, go to this website and use this code. I just it's it's a little, I don't know. It doesn't sit right with me now from one side of it, it doesn't sit right with me as a consumer. I know most of the time I'll just press the fast forward button. Right? It's like, it doesn't do much for you now on the other side of. I also know it doesn't do much for the podcast, right. It doesn't make any sense for a podcast to basically sell time on their podcast, to the profitability of another corporation. And so I was trying to think through some ways in which it would be both easier for you guys and easier for me to make this a mutually beneficial relationship. And this is how I've done it. So I come from an insurance background prior to this, I had an insurance agent. Built train, help all people with sales and that type of thing had a sales consulting agency after that. But prior to that, I had my health and life license. And so what I've decided to do is to just put an online platform for you guys, to be able to protect yourself, protect your family, protect your assets through life insurance. And now you don't have to talk on the phone with anybody. Usually what you'll get is you'll put your phone number online, you'll get a hundred different calls from a hundred different agents who are all trying to sell you some shitty policy that probably has a, you know, Universal life and all this crazy shit that you don't actually need. And so the hands-off way that I found to do it is you can go to my website right now, red pill, revolution dot C O, and there is a link on there right now that you can click and it will take you to a landing page. That is my landing page with my life insurance license on there for you guys, you can go apply, run a quote for yourself, just to give you an idea. I ran a call for myself a little bit earlier. It was like 60 bucks for a $2 million policy for myself. And when the things that that does for my family, if I pass away, right. Now with all the crazy shit that's been going. And all the preparation that you're doing in your life, whether it's food shortages, baby formula, shortages, whatever it is, protect your family, because you w you know, some of that stuff might happen, right? That's the idea, some of that might happen, but what's definitely gonna happen is you're gonna die. Whether it's today, whether it's tomorrow, whether it's next year, I hope it's a hundred years from now, but it's gonna fucking happen to all of us. You're going to die. It's going to happen to you. So protect yourself, protect your family, red pill, revolution.co, go, run a quote for yourself, and then run through the application process. There's a 95% approval rating on these life insurance products. So what I recommend is a term life policy that doesn't have to do with any of the investing BS that comes along with it. Just, just save your family from being broken when you die. Just do that. But as of right now, there's about eight or nine states specifically to sign up for that life insurance policy. And here they are. Let me go ahead and give you what those states are. They are Tennessee. Arizona Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, North Carolina, Ohio, West Virginia. Those are the first states right now. As time goes on and I get a couple of you guys to get the signed up, I will buy all of the other states. Right. So if you have a state that you want me to get in and you want to sign up, let me know, send me a message. Austin at red pill, revolution.co, and I will get the appointments specifically just so that you can sign up. So let me know, send me an email. All right. So now we're going to go ahead and watch this clip with Jen Pasek singer, really sad, emotional goodbye, to all the people who have been ridiculing her and backing her into a corner on every single topic without her ever answering a single question as to what this administration absolutely actually believes. So here is her sad. I last briefing and it is Brian. And I wanted to start with a series of thank yous. I promised myself I wasn't gonna get emotional. Okay. Thank you. I want to say thank you to the president and the first lady. They entrusted me in serving this role for the last 15 months. And I talked about this a little bit before, but during my first conversation with them, which was in November of 2020 after the election I was very nervous when I went to see them in Delaware. And really what we talked about for the majority of our conversation was the, the, the importance of returning integrity, respect and civility to the white house. The small sliver of, of my job here in, in engaging with all of you that doesn't not mean that we haven't let our Irish side show mine and the presidents as well from time to time. I recognize that, but on my best days, and as I look back I hope I followed the example of integrity. That they have set for all of us and do set for all of us every day. And I'm incredibly grateful to them. I have, I'm not going to get everyone here, but I want to thank there's a Biden family that has extended and expanded far beyond the Biden named family. And that includes people who have worked with the president and for the president for many years, Ron Anita, Bruce, Cedric, Kate, Jodie, Donald, and machete, Susan DCE, Jake, Evan, Annie Elizabeth Alexander. There's so many others. And the reason I mention them is because part of my job or that anyone's job in this role is to represent and talk about the policies of in the work of any administration. They have integrity, grit, commitment to trying, even on the hardest days and worst days to make the world better for the American people. And I am very grateful to them. Now I'm not going to cry about the press team. Okay. Thank you to the prestige. Many of them are here. Some of them are not here because they're taking much needed days off. It has nothing to do with me personally. I promise. But. You all know a lot of them, for those who don't know them they are incredibly tough, smart, hardworking, and deeply, deeply good human beings, deeply good public servants. And you know, people always ask me and I'm sure you guys get asked this too about whether Washington is rotten. You know, whether everybody is corrupt here and you know, nothing good happens. And we all argue with each other. And I having done this job believe the opposite is true because I have worked with and engaged with all of these incredible people across the administration and this amazing. Many of whom are here that I get to work with every day. And I S, as I said about Korean last week these people are already the stars of the team, but they're going to be shining stars in the future and I'll miss them a lot. Okay. Whew. I promised myself I was going to keep it together. I'm not, this is the last part of this. I want to thank all of you in this room. You have challenged me. You have pushed me. You have to baited me. And at times we have disagreed that is democracy in action. That is it working without accountability, without debate, government is not as strong and you all play an incredibly pivotal role. Thank you for what, without accountability, without debate, democracy will not live. And that is why we silence all of our enemies and we make sure they cannot speak on any platform without being silenced, because we don't have a legitimate argument. Okay. I promised myself I wouldn't cry. It's unbelievable that she wasn't sit up there and say, politicians are not corrupt. That she believes in a free speech debate based democracy. Like, you know, you don't Jen. No, you don't. You wish every single one, all the Peter doosies of the world were silenced and you never had to speak to them again. That is your one wish. And we all know it. You can't backpedal now about showing your Irish side. Like I said, it's funny to me how none of there's never a positive spin on being Irish. According to this to this administration, every time being Irish has been brought up has been a negative connotation. So to me, it's, it's so disingenuous her sitting up there about to be in tears over seven figure contract with MSNBC. I promise I'm done with the. I'm quite good at it though. You know, you gotta, you gotta admit, I could definitely be. I posted this today on truth social. So I would like to formally send in my application for white house press secretary. If all I have to do is lie to the people I represent. All I have to do is never answer a single question that I'm asked directly. I would. And then at the end of it, I get a seven figure contract. I'm, I'm fairly confident I could complete that job very well, but we all know I couldn't lie like that. And we all know I'm not fit to be in a political position where all I have to spout is baseless arguments and the, the silencing of every person that I ever come in, contact being the only argument that I properly can follow through on. So anyways, I guess I won't be the white house press secretary after all, but I think the interesting conversation here is, is why MSN. Right. Why is she able to seamlessly move from white house, press secretary into a news media position so easily. And not only that, but a news media position where she's making millions of dollars, millions of dollars. And so I did a little digging here. I tried to figure out, you know, why with the head scratch, why would MSNBC offer her a seven figure contract? And it has nothing to do with her ability to speak has nothing to do. Her ability to bring a new taste and flavor to MSNBC and know, you know, what it has to do with is all of the money that was shoveled in to the white house, where she defended all the bullshit for these large corporations, that own MSNBC. It has nothing to do with her ability to speak, because we all know she can't answer a single question directly. What we do know is that the people who own MSNBC is BlackRock and Vanguard. Those are the two biggest corporations in the following that here I'll even pull up this little article for us surrounding who actually I had it up, I guess maybe up here it is. All right. So there's this article that I heard is the MSNBC is not your friend follow the money. That was a fairly long read. So I'm going to skip through a little bit of it, but I do think it's quite interesting. Now they have this little infographic and it shows who owns. Okay. And then it goes on to show who owns MSNBC. So here are the largest, so-so the top institutional shareholders of Comcast, Comcast owns MSNBC. So the question is who owns Comcast, right? Who are the biggest shareholders in Comcast? Now these names might be familiar because they own everything and including you, right. So here are the names, van guard Vanguard. Okay. Vanguard's the number one stakeholder in Comcast. BlackRock is the second largest stakeholder in Comcast, which owns MSNBC. Okay. So it goes on to show that other organizations is JP Morgan chase. Hm. Interesting bank of America. Interesting. Now let's go find out who owns a portion, right? Let's see what BlackRock and Vanguard stake is in Pfizer percentage. All right. Now, forgive me. I don't have a Joe Rogan, young Jamie here. I'm Googling everything on my behalf. So I have to kind of keep it flowing while we're going. It didn't have that one plan. So this says BlackRock's Madonna and Pfizer shares increased by more than 2.5 billion in the week after the announcement of the Omicron variant. Okay. Vanguard group made a $2.7 billion up from 1 billion with Madonna and 1.7 billion from Pfizer. The shocking, shocking amount of money that Vanguard and BlackRock actually controls a large stake of that goes into these pharmaceutical companies who she has been shoving down your throat, shoving down your throat, your children's throat, your pregnant wife's throat, you your throat, so that you get their products. That's what she's been doing. She's been playing this game where she's been paddling, the disinformation campaigns of everybody who opposes Pfizer and BlackRock and Vanguard and all of these corporations that own these entities with the idea that eventually it just give it a year. Jen, just give it a year. I need you to argue with Peter Doocy for one year, and we'll give you a multimillion dollar contract with one of our organizations. Oh. And you probably don't even have to show your face very often for it. Quid pro quo. It's how it all works. All of these organizations own these smaller organizations and they put these people into positions or they incentivize them to give the information that they want and silence the opposing viewpoints to the point where they can't even speak in a conversation with these individuals all while on the backs of her farewell speech, she's going to come and tell us that she believes in a fair democracy where debate leads the way. Fuck you. Fuck you, Vanguard. Fuck you BlackRock. Fuck you, Jen.  all of you. You grow. Like, Ugh, disgusting. Like all of this shit. If you're not seeing this yet, how all of this is intertwined? Every little piece of it, right? Vanguard has a big stake in Pfizer. They have a big stake in Comcast. They have a big stake. They funded the Oscars. They put all of this money into all of these little spider webs of disgusting, gross NIS so that they can push their products in jab you in the side of your fucking body with an experimental drug, shut you down in your home, shut down your business. So you can't even make money all for profit, all for profit. And now I have an idea, right? I have this idea about corporations and I've got to a point where, like I was a very pro. Conglomerate, you know, like I had this idea that like, you know, generally corporations we're good right now. I have an idea that kind of counter poses that, and if you don't know my political viewpoints, I'm kind of like a mixture between a conservative, libertarian hippie, like, oh, I guess that's the best way to describe me as like a conservative, libertarian ish hippie ask you know, I, that's kind of the mixture that I have and, and I, and then some social issues like access to drugs and, and the way that you go about, you know, legalizing certain drugs in, in, in some certain social programs, you know, I, I have some left leaning social positions, but for the most part, I'm a conservative ish, libertarian ish hippie. I believe that the government should probably only have their hands in, in very little places in, mostly in, in the portions, which have to do with crime and have to do with protecting our. Those are probably where I draw the line for the most part. And even that kind of counter counters, the, the hippie portion of me, which is the fact that, you know, the war machine and all of the war pigs out there siphoning money off the backs of the blood of our children, going to war on their behalf for reasons we'll never actually fully know. I dunno, there's my, there's my political beliefs. If you had to put it in a box and I guess, well, I guess the biggest thing is constitutionalist too. So I'm a conservative ish libertarian this. Hippy constitutionalist. If I had to put it all in the box. All right. There's there. I put it all on the table for you guys. That's where I'm at. All right. So, I don't know how we got there, I guess BlackRock Vanguard. Okay. So, so the idea to me is with corporations is that they're this, this, this organism, right? When, when, when a company goes from being held and operated by a singular individual as a CEO that runs it, that has a vision for where the company's going and the morality behind that individual directs the morality of that company. Okay. Now, when you take away the individual, when, when you only have shareholders, stockholders, whose only investment in that company has nothing to do with the morality and its impact on the world. It only has to do on their profitability. Okay. So I have this idea that the, the, the organism that is a corporation thrives off of only profit. Once it's been turned into a public company, once there are shareholders, once there are stockholders, once there's board members and there's a CEO who's positioned only there to, to, to maintain profitability for the organization. Okay. Now, to me, everything that comes from that organization, that organism that lives in breathes in the only way it survives is off of profit, that is it's food. That is its consciousness. That is its morality is all based on profit and Vanguard and BlackRock are the worst and the worst and the worst of them. And so the only thing that they do is they, they literally they literally deteriorate countries. They, they profit off the backs of the poor and the unintelligent in, in the, the imposed political authoritarianism that was vaccines and lockdowns and all this shit that they pushed. It all comes down to profitability, right? They found these ways to move and shift the entire world, the entire world. Now, if you don't think the origins of this, this of this sickness was not man-made to this point where you see how much profit has been made, how much billions, how, what percentage the billionaires of the world have made. They've literally almost doubled their profits. They've almost doubled their, their net worth during the same time that the, the, the use in the eyes and the Veys and the thems of the world lost everything. They lost their businesses. They lost their personal bodily sovereignty. They lost, they lost everything. And, and, and these corporations are profiting off of the back of this. And so they positioned people like Jen  to bring it around, to circle back. They positioned the gen Pesach is of the world. The Joe Biden's, the Camila Harris is in a position where they have either blackmail. They have either incentives, incentivize incentives. They position them with incentives like this, where they say, Hey, Jen, if you push the narratives that we give you and you don't speak up about these things that are coming up from these opposing viewpoints, then we'll make sure you and your family are taken care of forever. Now, the only thing, and this is selling your soul to the devil, it's literally selling your soul to the devil, because that is the devil. The devil is the organism, the organism that is, is only living and breathing off of profitability. Right? So, so that is who we're dealing with here. And, and, and that is who, you know, they're, they're. They're literally only P putting themselves in a position where they can profit off of these conversations. So if you own the press secretary, you own every legitimate piece of, of, of truth, right? You own truth, especially when they come out with a disinformation governance board, like you own the truth because that individual gets to speak about every topic and tell the entire world what the president believes. Even though he's a blubbering dementia written elderly, like he should be in an old folks home. We know this, that all of us know this, but they positioned her there. So she could be the talking mouth of BlackRock and Vanguard. And then eventually they give her a multi-million dollar contract with MSNBC owned by Comcast, which is owned by Vanguard and owned by BlackRock. There you go. There's the fucking pieces to the puzzle. And this is, this is everywhere. It's not just in the white house. It's an academic. It's not just an academia it's in your schools. Like it's, it's in the public eye. It's in, it's in our local state governments. It's, it's everywhere. It's in the CEOs of conglomerate organizations. It's in the CEOs of the apples and the Facebooks and the everywhere everywhere has to do with this, this, this like gross organism that only it only has the morality that is compass based on profitability and profitability is always based on the idea that you're siphoning that money from somewhere. And who are you siphoning that money from? You're siphoning that money from the individuals who you can, who you can take, what little they have from their 401ks. As we see the stock markets plummeting over the last, I don't know, month and a half all while gas prices are skyrocketing, gas prices are sky SkyRide. Housing costs are skyrocketing APR percentages. Your, your, your percentage on your loans are skyrocketing. Everything is skyrocketing. Meanwhile, inflation is up food costs are up and in your 401ks down. And Jenn Pesach is getting a multi-million dollar deal with Vanguard through MSNBC so that she can peddle their little lies to you so that they can profit and siphon your money away from you. It's sickening. It's, it's, it's gross, it's sickening. It's frustrating. And it pumps a lot of disbelief in our government government for me. And I think that's happening all over the country. And when you start to connect these dots and you start to see that the Harvard professors get moved into the Pfizer CEOs and the Pfizer CEOs get moved into. The head of the DIH and then how did the DIH gets moved into the head of the NIH who gets moved back to a Harvard position in, in moves into the, the head of the newest next whatever company they can find for them. It all is a circle of disgusting newness. All right. So on the backs of that conversation, let's go ahead and look at the actual new press secretary. I think let's go ahead and get see if we can get a feel for who she is. And maybe if she'll be better, I don't know. Maybe she'll be better than Jen. Maybe she'll answer questions. I hope she does. I think that's what our country needs. If our president's an idiot and doesn't know how to finish a sentence. If our vice-president can't talk herself out of a cardboard box without repeating herself 10 times, maybe this woman can do it. So let's see what she has to say in her opening statements about her newest position. Right. I just want to say a few words about how honored I am to be here with all of you today. In this role, in this room, standing behind this podium, I am obviously acutely aware that my presence at this podium represents a few firsts. I am a black gate immigrant woman. The first of all, three of those to hold this position, I would not be here today. If it were not for generations of barriers, barrier breaking people before me, I stand on their shoulders. If, if it were not for generations of barrier, barrier, breaking people before me, I would not be here. But I benefit from their sacrifices. I have learned from their expects excellence, and I am forever grateful to them. Representation does matter. You hear us, you hear us say this often in this administration and no one understands this better than presence. Which is why his administration is not only the most diverse in history. It is filled with barrier breaking women and men from the vice-president to the cabinet secretaries to his Supreme court nominee to senior staff throughout this administration. When I did my first briefing as principal. Okay. That's enough. So we know exactly how she opened. That was, I am the first black gay immigrant to ever have this position. Okay. So maybe you should start with your qualifications, not your skin color, who your sexual preferences are for in a bedroom setting and your immigration status. If that's how you start your opening sentence of your press secretary career, and then continuing it with representation matters. I only have this position because of these three things. I don't know, that's down the good start. I don't know if that's the only reason that she's in the office. It's kind of sounds like it from that statement, right. Maybe you should lead with the fact that here's your education, here's your background. Here's what I believe in, you know, whatever this is, you know, maybe the opening statement shouldn't be. Racial divide, sexuality and immigration status. I don't know who am I? Just a guy, but that, to me says a lot about where this is going to go. Now to me, I don't know. It's, it's, it's just, it's, it's crazy to me that this is going to be the person who is who's following up on gen Pataki and we know why they did this right there. They're like insulating themselves from criticism. They're like, oh shit, we shouldn't have put the red headed white girl in there. We, we gotta, we gotta put, you know, a gay black immigrant in there to, to so that we can't be questioned, but so harshly by Peter Doocy without him being a racist homophobe. And it seems to me like it's insulation against Peter Doocy. So that now he has to tread a little bit later so that the, and when he does not, he's going to be severely lashed by the left for, for not treading lightly with, with the minority crowd. So here is her take on the baby formula, short his conversation, and then we'll dive into that. And start that, that topic here. So here it is. Go ahead. I was on a separate topic. The president told my colleague Jeremy diamond on Friday when he asked that the administration should have acted sooner on baby formula shortage. If we'd been better mind readers, I guess we could have this doesn't seem like a situation that would have required mind reading. As you know, the recall state back to February, I believe political reported months ago that the FDA was forced warned about the suspected bacteria issue as early as September. Are there any specific actions that this administration took meetings, phone calls of briefings in February or any earlier to begin addressing this potential shortage of, I mean, you've heard us talk about this. You've seen my colleagues on, on. Talking about what we have done since you know, since February we've been, we've been working on this 24 7, but I do want to give you a little bit of an update on where we are. So getting more safe and fit formula onto shelves across the country is one of the president's top priorities, right? This is something that he is focusing on very acutely. And again, I said 24 7, we have been working on this since we have since we learned about this back in February, it's important to remember this shortage exists because Abbott closed the facility closed the facility because of safety concerns from the FDA, the FDA is working closely with avid to bring the facility back online safely. That's the. All of the us, all of the all of the, you knows all of the, and, and this entire time she's looking at a piece of paper. She's literally looking at what she should be saying. If you watch the press secretary, they flip, flip, flip, flip, they find the topic, they look at their response and then they try to give some eye contact. Every, I dunno, know every few periods that they find themselves in. They try to give some eye contact, a little bit of hand motion really goes a long way. And she, she has finds herself even with a piece of paper in front of her. I'm going completely off the cuff. So you'll probably hear some ums. You probably hear some Oz, you know, is kind of a part of my, my vernacular, right. Is a part, you know, there's all these filler words that I get here, but I'm completely just talking with you guys. Like we're sitting at the bar, right? Like I'm not sitting there with a pen and a pad and a notepad, and I'm also not paid an exorbitant amount of money to speak to the entire general public on behalf of the most. The most powerful individuals in the world and it just is, it's so crazy to me to continue that original conversation from before. Well, let, let's continue and see what she says about this baby formula shortage. Yeah. Safely. We want to make sure that this is done in a safe way. We are very, we are very close to having a path forward to safely reopening of the facility. We can, you can expect a an announcement from FDA later today on that, that we'll go into more details. We're also moving as quickly as possible to safely bring in additional product from other countries as soon as today. We will be able to make an announcement on the expedited process to bring additional safe conduct product to the American stores, shell, to American store shelves. And throughout the weekend we've been working closely with manufacturers and retailers to identify transportation and logistical needs to increase the amount and spread of FDA approved formula, being shipped into the country and ensure that formula is quickly moving from factories to retailers. The president understands he gets this. He gets how stressful it is for parents trying to feed their children, which is why we're, we're leaving no stone unturned to make more safe formula available. If parents need help finding formula I encourage them to consult their pediatrician or visit HHS gov Ford slash formula. But we have been working on this from the, from, from February, our, our administration has. Just curious, whether there are specific meetings, briefings, you know, phone calls and you can point us to, I don't have anything specific for you to point to I'm I'm, I'm happy to, to go back and get that, you know, make sure that we are fully transparent on what we've been doing, but this has been this is an important you know, this is an important priority a top priority for the president. He's his team has been working overtime to make sure that we get formula back on the shelves and we want to do this in a safe way. And I, and again, we cannot forget how we got here. Abbott calls a facility because of safety concerns from the FDA. The FDA wanted to make sure that we formerly was going out in a safe way. And that is the job of the FDA. And that is the job of this administration as well, very quickly on added a secretary of the Sarah said today, in terms of when things will be back to normal, that. All right. I really don't care about the rest of that. The point of that is there's this there's a baby formula shortage, and they want everybody to be terrified about this baby formula shortage. And they called it before the shelves were empty. And then in the midst of the baby formula shortage, the, they shut down two of the biggest plants in the world for baby formula, which is Abbott pharmaceuticals. Now, if you don't know anything about baby formula and most people don't, I really haven't done much research into this until it was an interesting topic for me when I had children. And when my wife kind of came to me, you know, it didn't really come to me, but just had the ongoing conversations about breastfeeding and, and, and the amazingness that is breastfeeding. So let's, let's jump into this conversation a little bit. They are trying to inflate this sense of scarcity. The sense of you should be fearful. And everybody that you know, that has children should be fearful, right? They, they need to keep you in a fearful state. If it's. COVID it's Ukraine and Russia. And if it's not Ukrainian Russia, it's food shortages. And if it's not food shortages, when that's not working enough, it's baby formula shortages. And if it's not baby formula shortages, this is whatever the next thing is going to be. There's always going to be that next fear mongering step for these companies. Now, I bet you, if we go and look at who has a large stake in these Abbott pharmaceuticals in Nestle in all of these large corporations that produce baby formula, I think we probably have some familiar names in there just like we were discussing earlier. So baby formula, baby formula was formulated back in 1846. I believe by a chemist. Now the original idea with baby formula, a lot of times you had to get a prescription for it up until I don't know. I don't know the year, but you had to get a prescription for baby formula. The idea was to be supplementing your child's nutritional intake. So. What would I teach my children about nutrition is usually if it doesn't, if it's not made by mother nature, if there's all the 46 ingredients, like my daughter asked me, what's in, she, she was eating the thing of chicken biscuits and she's like, well, well, how do they make, what, what, how are chicken biscuits made? And I read her the 45 ingredients that were on the back of chicken baskets. None of which was chicken and none of which was biscuits. So it's the same thing with baby formula is, is they had to, for, for thousands of years, 20, for whatever, for whatever history you follow of how long the human population has been around Neanderthals whatever osteopathic, whatever personal hood humanoid individual you've had, baby formulas been around for less than 200 years. Less than two, 180 years, this has been around. And all of a sudden it's like the gold standard for nutrition, for our children, even though every little bit of what your child needs is built in to the mother, it's truly incredible. The miracle that is a woman. And, and we're seeing this being stripped from them by saying, men can get pregnant and, oh, you don't need to breastfeed because the, the, the, the trans men who are pregnant, wouldn't even have that ability anyways, you know, it's like, they're, they're trying to D they're trying to take away the super powers that is femininity and, and, and diminish it to. Baby formula and men getting pregnant and bursting people and all this ugly gross what's that show the Handmaid's tale bullshit, like women are our literal superhumans. They have everything your child needs to survive within their own bodies to create, to literally take a. Seed and turn it into a, whatever is the complexity of a human that is more, it's literally an organic 3d printer that, that creates the most unbelievable organism that the, the, the craziest technology that we have today could never duplicate your neurons, your brain, your consciousness, your ability to move your there's. None of that, none of that comes from us. That is, that is the, the mother nature. That is God. That is the universe. That is the rift. We are a reflection of the universe and the women are the most powerful of us. Sorry. Men, women have everything that we need within them. Or within them, sorry, I'm not a woman. I know that's a crazy statement to make these days, but I am not a woman. I can not to birth a child and I do not have Milka ducks. So, all then you're like, I've literally seen my wife do some unbill like my, my son had a baby acne, right? Every baby gets these little bumps on their face and my wife put breast milk on it. It was a little bit gone the next day, the next day it was gone. They got Stein in his eye and breast milk gone, gone. Unbelievable. So this baby formula idea is taking away the power of the woman. And I understand that there's, you know, I don't want this to be like, don't, don't take this as me looking at women who have formula fed their child's in, in like B rating, you are like trying to diminish what you did for your child. You did what you needed to do. And what you were told was right for your child. And oftentimes, maybe that was giving them some pharmaceuticals forty-five ingredient bullshit that. I don't know, but I, I don't want you to take this as me diminishing your decisions and what this, what I'm going to show you here in the articles that I'm going to pull up in the, in the scientific studies I'm going to pull up are going to show you the malicious intent of the marketing behind this machine that is big pharma and, and, and the fact that they, they took it upon themselves to make you believe that your children in you don't have everything that you need within your own household, in your own body to give your child where they need to grow into a healthy individual. Okay. So let's go ahead and let's, let's discuss this shortly. There's actually an interesting, I was listening to this. I posted on. A few things about baby formula. The first thing that came to my mind when baby formula shortage rep is why the fuck are we giving our babies pharmaceutical 45 ingredient, Abbott, pharmaceuticals, Nestle, all of this BS, pharmaceutical crap to our children from birth. And so you start diving deeper into the marketing aspects of these, of these companies, these pharmaceutical companies, and the, the, the, the gross Snus that came with how they pushed this there's this idea of baby formula. Now, now there's two ways that you can do this. You can push this this type of mass movement of, of money. And one way is through fear. And we saw that with COVID and we saw that with the vaccine. And the other way is is, well, I guess there's three there's there's fear. There is addiction. And then there's what's the word I'm looking for? Ease of use it is like taking away the, the difficulties of life, right? Like, so I've watched breastfeeding with my wife and my children, and then I've seen them. It's very difficult. Sometimes there's a lot of things that can come up. A lot of soreness in, in, in some women don't produce enough and, and all of these difficulties that can happen with breastfeeding. And so what the pharmaceutical companies did is said, they said, we are, we have the solution to your difficulty, right? We, we are the ones who solved this problem, not God. Right. I posted on truth. Two is like on the seventh day of, on the seventh day, God had created on the seventh day, God appointed the CEO of Abbott pharmaceuticals because he knew the first six days weren't enough to give them nutrition to the children. So it was like, no, the first six days were correct. There is no seventh day. He rested because he deserved it. Right. Everything that we need is within the body of the individual. And so what we'll see is that it was the, it was the presentation of a solution of, of a, a solution to your problem of that difficulty in breastfeeding is hard, is like, I've, I've watched it, right. I'm not just coming from like, oh, the you're a man. You don't get to discuss this. No, I've seen it. I've seen the difficulties of it. I know what women go through. I I've, I've watched some, some very difficult times that my wife's gone through breastfeeding. She didn't breastfeed all of our children when we were young, when we had our first and, and it wasn't completely, you know, the formula was used in, on all this stuff. So we were, I was a part of that. I'm a I'm in that group. Right? So again, don't, don't take this as me diminishing anybody who decided to do that. So let's go ahead and watch this clip. Joe Rogan discussed it a few days after I discussed it on my. Social account about, you know, the, the evils of the breastfeeding machine. All right. In here it is. I keep hearing there's a formula shortage, which is terrible. The baby formula. Yeah. I saw that recently. How was that? What's going on? What's going on there? I don't know. I mean, how the fuck do you not have enough, baby? I I'm happy. They don't first of all. And I'll tell you, he why please do baby formula. Ain't no good for babies. It's not, not most, most of them are not, but some women can't pump. Right. Right. For whatever reason, their milk ducts. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's alternative formulas out there. Like there's really good. Some of them are like soy based. I'm like, I don't get your child, but like when you talk about, I don't want to name companies, cause that could get me legal issues, but. The formula that's on the market has a lot of toxic ingredients in it and it ain't good for babies. What, what kind of toxic ingredients? I don't know. I haven't studied this stuff in years, but let people do their own research. Right. And let and let people go. And there's a lot of people that have done this research. Let's see if we could find it, find out what. So the first thing that he says there is that I'm happy that there's a shortage. I'm happy that it brings up this conversation surrounding why women should know that breastfeeding is, is literally the biggest and most unbelievable miracle of life. It's it's it's like right behind actually giving birth to a child. Breastfeeding is right there. The fact that you have all the nutrition in your body, the things that your body's creates, the antibodies that you give your child is unbelievable. And he talks about some of the negative things that are within breastfeeding and within this within the actual Within the actual ingredients of some of these baby formulas. So I did a little bit of research on that and they was like, Hey, let's pull this up. I, he did not do enough research. I did. So here we go. Let's go ahead and talk about some of the ingredients that are actually negative within baby formula. So some of the things that are within baby foremost, I pulled up a few different things. Now, if we go through the, the ingredients, this is from M Enfamil and that's one of the most commonly used baby formulas. Now, here is the ingredients for you guys and I'm going to read them off. Okay. Non-fat milk. Lactose vegetable oil, Palm oil, coconut soy. Hi, Alessa, sunflower oils, whey protein concentrates galactose glass. So charades, poly dextrose, Marta. Sorelli a L peanut oil. Grip the condemn Liam Cohain oil, calcium carbonate, potassium, citrate, pharaohs, sulfate, potassium, chloride, magnesium oxide, sodium chloride, zinc, sulfate culprit, sulfate, magnesium, sulfate, potassium, oxide, Sophia sodium, Selah, date, soy lecithin, Coleen chloride sorbic acid. And  calcium. Okay. That's half the list that you get the point. Okay. Now what I did is I took some of those ingredients and tried to figure out what the hell they are and what some of the side effects of those are. And here's some of my research. So one of those things that I went over was galactic tool ego, no saccharine. Okay. Now, one of the things that, that ingredient specifically causes auto immune diseases, such as multiple sclerosis, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, or other conditions galacto oligosaccharides might cause the immune system to become more active. This might increase the symptoms of auto immune disorders and diseases. If you have an autoimmune disease or condition, it's best to avoid this medicine until more is known. Now, the next thing is poly dextrose. Poly dextro says for pregnancy and breastfeeding, there isn't enough available information to know if poly dextrose is safe to use as a medicine when pregnant or breastfeeding, stay on the safe side and stick to food amounts. Children, poly dextrose is possibly safe for them. When added to formula at concentrates of 2.4 grams per liter, a formula, it is also possibly safe for children four to eight years old at doses of four grams daily. Okay. I like that possibly safe. Just, just a nice legal term to say we have no idea what we're doing. Just shove it down your kid's throat and don't Sue us. And here's how you can't because we said it's possibly safe. Soy soy is co commonly consumed in foods. However, soy is possibly unsafe when used in larger amounts found in medicine. And when pregnant, you know, maybe you shouldn't do it when you're pregnant, but you should definitely shove concentrated amounts of this stuff into your child's body directly. Okay. So here are some of the things, so he's commonly consumed talks about breastfeeding. There isn't enough reliable information to know if it is safe to consume in large amounts. And then it says that soy is possibly unsafe when used as an alternative to cow's milk and children who are allergic to cow's milk. Oh, that makes sense. But it also shows that there's a relation to breast. There is a relation to underactive thyroids, kidney failure, kidney stones, milk allergies, and bladder cancer all from soy. And that's within your baby's formula. Morda Barela Alpina oil. Now what this is, is an extracted oil that comes from mushrooms and other like algae and, and they take this to try and basically super impose something called DH a and DHA is, is a Large portion of what's positive for your child. One of the, one of the many things that's positive for your child from breast milk. And they tried to duplicate that by putting it from this, you know, cause they can't actually do it any other way because the miracle of life and the miracle of a woman's body, they took algae and they took mushrooms and extracted it through this oil solvent. And so it says that and this was a study that I, I researched about this mortar mortar irrele L peanut oil, which showed that rats had an organ weight determinations carried out which showed statistically significant differences in absolute liver weights in males, relative brain lung, and adrenal weight weights in females, as well as absolute and relative spleen weights in females. So there was a variation in the Oregon weights based on just this one specific product alone. Okay. That's one thing. That's just one thing. Okay. There's, there's three pieces of the 45 ingredients that we just talked about. Okay. Now let's go ahead and continue this Joe Rogan clip. I think it's important to give it its due. Cause they go over some, some pretty good stuff here. Let me go ahead and we'll continue that conversation right now. Bad about baby formula, pull up the ingredients. Just Google. What's bad about baby formula. Okay. You might have to use, it might be an alternative that would give you a bad what'd you say bad blog results. Like that's going to give you oh, goofy shit that people are trying to sell stuff. How about toxic ingredients in baby formula that might, that might work? What are you doing over there? Jimmy Breslin with that microphone. But I don't know. It's definitely better to have breast milk. Yes. Yes. I think for some women that's an impossibility. Right? So then maybe you got to have. That formula. Right. But I think a lot of women also can't afford the breast milk because breast milk is expensive. You know, if you can't nurse, but you mean buying breasts. Yeah. It's very expensive. Yeah. That stuff is very expensive. So it's hard to get alternatives, blah, blah, blah. And the thing is that there are people that are making babies. There's so many times I'm going, I want to interject on this. So, so, so here's the position that I held when it comes to the Roe V Wade position. You know, I do talk about pro choice is like, you know, I'm pro choice. I believe in adoption. I believe in parenthood. I believe in contraception. I believe in abstinence, you have many choices. One of those choices should not be having double. Right. Okay. There's one position to hold right now. My belief system, when it comes to breastfeeding is that there are other options. The only other option is not giving your child a 45 ingredient, pharmaceutical powder made by Abbott pharmaceuticals, right? There is other options. And we're, we're just, just by closing your eyes and not looking at them doesn't mean they don't exist. Right. There's literally a M

Today we talk with author J. Budziszewski, scholar and professor of Philosophy at the University of Texas at Austin about his new book: How and How Not to Be Happy. J Budziszewski takes us through his journey to happiness and in what ways we should define the meaning of happiness.Learn More About our Guest:Author J. Budziszewskihttps://www.regnery.com/9781684511075/how-and-how-not-to-be-happy/You can learn more about Beyond the Big Screen and subscribe at all these great places:www.atozhistorypage.comwww.beyondthebigscreen.comClick here to support Beyond the Big Screen!https://www.subscribestar.com/beyondthebigscreenhttps://www.patreon.com/beyondthebigscreenClick to Subscribe:https://www.spreaker.com/show/4926576/episodes/feedemail: steve@atozhistorypage.comwww.beyondthebigscreen.comhttps://www.patreon.com/historyofthepapacyParthenon Podcast Network Home:parthenonpodcast.comOn Social Media: https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypagehttps://www.facebook.com/HistoryOfThePapacyPodcasthttps://twitter.com/atozhistoryMusic Provided by:"Crossing the Chasm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/Image Credits:Begin Transcript:, [00:00:00] this is beyond the big screen podcast with your host, Steve Guerra. Thank you again for listening to beyond the big screen podcast. Of course, a big thanks goes out to Jay Buddha. Shefsky author of how and how not to be happy links to learn more about Jay Buddha Shefsky can be found in the show notes.You can now support beyond the big screen on Patrion by joining on Patrion. You help keep beyond the big screen going and get many great benefits. Go over to patrion.com/beyond the big screen to learn more. And of course a special, thanks goes out to our patron, Alex, at the executive producer level, we are a member of the Parthenon podcast network.You can learn more about great shows like professor James [00:01:00] Earley's key data's of American history podcast. By going over to Parthenon podcast.com you of course can learn more about beyond the big screen, great movies and stories. So great. They should be movies by. Going over to our website, a twosie history page.com.I thank you again for joining me behind the big screen.

In this week's episode we do a full breakdown of the controversial 2000 Mules Documentary by Dinesh D'Souza. We cut through the fluff, focusing only on the cold. hard. facts. Who True the Vote is, What data do they claim to have found that (according to them) irrefutably proves that the election was stolen from Donald Trump. We discuss how they pulled off the biggest election heist in history (allegedly), who was involved, who funded them, and even the things that may be said to refute this evidence. Do not miss this episode regardless of where you land on the political spectrum as it may wake you up to the true inner workings of our election system. For all the articles, videos, and documents discussed on this week's podcast join our substack!  Podcast Companion Substack: https://redpillrevolution.substack.com ----more---- Please consider leaving a donation for all of the hard work that goes into this ad-free podcast. I love doing what I do and can only continue through your generosity and support!  Donate https://givesendgo.com/redpillrevolution  ----more----   Full Transcription:   welcome to red hill revolution. My name is Austin Adams. Red pill revolution started out with me realizing every thing that I knew, everything that I believed, everything I interpret about my life is through the lens of the information I was spoonfed as a child, religion, politics, history, conspiracies, Hollywood medicine, money, food, all of it, everything we know was tactfully written to influence your decisions and your view on reality by those in power. Now I'm on a mission, a mission to retrain and reeducate myself to find the true reality of what is behind that curtain. And I'm taking your ass with me. Welcome to the revolution. Hello and welcome to red pill revolution. My name is Austin Adams, and this is episode number 27 of the red pill revolution podcast. And thank you so much for joining me. It's going to be a very interesting discussion today. This is going to be a little bit different than what we normally do. A lot of times we'll pull up current events. We'll talk about things that are going on. We'll have a specific topic, but we'll generally have multiple things that we're discussing, but I think this is a pressing enough topic to where we should give it its full due its full attention. And that's what I'm going to do here for you today. And so without further ado, this episode is going to be all about the 2000 mules documentary that was just released by the Nash. Now, if you don't know who Dinesh D'Souza is, he's a author podcaster, a overall conservative personality. He was actually, which we'll find out a little bit more about later, he was pardoned by Trump due to some type of like campaign  finance issues or something. I don't know, maybe something we should look a little bit more into, but he released a documentary recently and it's actually a decent cost for the documentary. It costs about $30 to purchase it $20 to rent it for 72 hours, which I thought was a little steep for a lot of people. So, I did want to do a full, deep dive. I've pulled some, you know what I think to be the most important little short clips, I don't want to take away from the fact and I don't want to emphasize in, or I don't want to diminish the fact that you should buy this documentary. You should watch the entire thing beginning to end. All I'm going to give you today is about eight full well not full minutes, but eight short clips. Well, eight minutes of clips that are cut and pieced up into about one to two minute segments of, of really topics, generators that I think we should discuss together. And I hope you enjoy the conversation. So if you haven't heard what, this is, what this documentary is about, and you haven't heard a little bit more about in the 2020 election, there's a little bit of controversy surrounding it. Some people seem to think that the 2020 election had a little bit of shadow surrounding it, including our former president Donald Trump. So this documentary sheds light on some of the facts. Some of the reasons that people may question the integrity of our election system, If you're, you know, I know that generally you're not every single person that listens to this is going to be on the very right side of things. And I, and I don't think that this conversation should be only for people who are pro-Trump or hyper conservative or whatever it is that you want to call it, which I don't generally wouldn't generally label myself hyper conservative. I have social aspects of my political beliefs that lean more centrist and more libertarian than in some fiscal side of things. So I am not a die hard, , evangelical, conservative, or even a die hard,  right wing individual. I have belief systems that fall somewhere in the middle of both. So I did just kind of want to talk about that and let you know that this is coming from a little bit more of a, a little bit more of a centrist libertarian, somewhat conservative opinion. But I do have some social issues that I fall more towards the left side of things. So, so this, this is not a complete, , diehard.  Pro , episode. So if you're not that individual stick around, cause I think it's important to still discuss these things, right. Because why should you care? Right. If, if you don't feel like the election was stolen,  why should you care? Well, if, if a certain section of our country does believe that it really diminishes the entire point of our democracy, right? If, if if a large portion of our country believe that our democracy is built on a house of cards in, in, in lies and deception and deceit and cheating, that really, really is the systemic issue that. Affect our country for a very, very long time to come. So I do think it's very important to have this discussion. I do think that it's very important to look at these facts. And I do think that it's an important conversation to have, because there are some very, very compelling arguments within this documentary. And even if you're not going to shell out the $30 yourself, I think it's important for you to understand the arguments. Right. And even if you don't believe it, it's, it's important to still get the idea that this conversation's being had by a good portion of our country right now. Okay. So there's kind of the framework for you. All right now it's a dive a little bit more into what the actual beliefs are and what the facts are and what, what this conversation is surrounding. These 2000 mules in this documentary is the idea that one party, the left specifically was a, and they go into more detail about who was a part of it and why they did it and how they did it. We even look into, and I'll kind of take you through some of the topics from top to bottom. So some of the things that we're going to go over today is who are the people that came up with this data? How did they get that data? And how were they tracking and coming up with these, these opinions, or even more importantly, these facts. Right. So that's the first thing we're going to talk about. The second thing we're going to talk about is the math involved, right? So what, how do we know that these 2000 mules actually affected the total outcome of the election? And then the next thing we're going to talk about how they did it. We're going to look at a interview with somebody who is actually a part of this cheating scheme, allegedly. And then we're also going to see who they did it to who funded it, what they're going to say about this documentary. And we'll look at that side of things of like, you know, maybe, you know, to kind of the conversation around who did that sh dissociate is, and whether he's a trustworthy source here, although he's not generally the one who's coming up with the data for this. But also, and then we'll look at kind of the outro from the episode itself. All right. So there's the episode. That's what we're going to discuss, that the conversation that we're going to have today, so stick around for that. Now, if you're new to this podcast, I do have a newer platform that is kind of growing and kind of interesting that it's right along the lines of this documentary coming out. But on the backs of Twitter, getting On or bought by Elon Musk, which we talked about last episode, if you haven't listened to that as a great one, go back and listen to that. But I have built a somewhat decent audience over on truth, social. True social is Trump's Twitter replicate, replicate, or duplicate. It's, it's a lot like Twitter, which I didn't think I would primarily like the short form text content, but I found a good groove in what I'm doing and the content I'm putting out and the videos that I'm able to put out on there. So I am excited about having this new audience, if you are on their audience and you are listening to this as a result. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you following along. I'm so glad that I'm starting to build an audience outside. If you don't know if you're only from true. I had a very large audience, about 50,000 people that came and were watching my videos from Instagram until I got shadow banned into oblivion for posting a Senate hearing about the bio labs. And so that platform is, is still in a, kind of a holding pattern while I wait for that shadow band to kind of drop I'm hoping it does it in the next 10 to 15 days or so. And then I'll be putting out a ton more content there. You may also be listening to tick-tock. I put a ton of videos out on Tik TOK. Anyways, besides the point, if you do have a true social, go ahead and follow me at red pill, revolt. Same with Tik TOK, same with Instagram. So you get that whole ecosystem of the stuff that I'm putting. Anyways. Thank you. And then the last thing would be go ahead and subscribe, hit that subscribe button right now. If you're listening to this on apple podcast, Spotify, Instagram, well, probably not Instagram, YouTube, whatever. This is, go ahead and hit that subscribe button, leave a five star review. It would mean the world. To me. There's very few things that you could do today, where you could really affect somebody's life positively. And that is one of them. It's really super easy. It's right there on your phone. All you have to do is tap that button that says subscribe. And if you're really feeling frisky, leave a five-star review, write something nice. Talk about a topic that you enjoyed, whatever it is. Thank you so much for considering doing that. All right. Without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into it. The first topic that we're going to discuss surrounding this documentary today is going to be the who, who is the actual organization that they got this data from. Okay. So the first, the first video they're going to watch is going to be who the hell are these people? So Dinesh D'Souza was working alongside a nonprofit called called true the vote. So let's watch their little intro from this documentary right here and get a little bit more of a background, and then we'll discuss it right here after. So here we go. Sure. Background that prepares you for this kind of work I've been in and around election intelligence and integrity for about 40 years. We've done investigations, literally all over the world. It's a combination of data acquisition data analysis occasionally some in-depth data mining, our ability to draw meaningful conclusions, that link the who to the wind, to the, where is significant in the space. Catherine, you started the group called true the vote in the year, 2010. What was your mission or objective? We just didn't have enough volunteers working at the polls in our local elections. So we began by training people to work in the polls. And then as we got further into it, we recognize, wow. Some of the problems you see at the polls can be attributed to problems in the voter rolls. Well, what can we do about the voter rolls? And so it turned into something much bigger than we had anticipated. True. The vote has the largest story. Of election intelligence for the 2020 elections in the world. No one has more data than we do. So I started true the vote to ensure that every American voter has an opportunity to participate in elections. I think I became familiar with your work when you gave congressional testimony. Now that was in the year 2014, the hypothesis was, if you were going to cheat, how might one go about this? That would be provable trackable. Do you said there might be some, let's just call them bad actors who are delivering ballots systematically and illicitly to these mail and drop boxes. And there might be a way to track them and to bust them. We didn't know. We decided we're going to let the data, tell the tale. And we collected together a team of highly skilled contractors and put together a plan to see where the data would take us. What Greg is geo tracking. So the idea is to collect the signals that are emitted from your phone. Your cell phone is delivering information to apps that are collecting that ping. So there are four key coordinates, the lat-long, the elevation and the time. And with that data, we can then build a pattern of life around. So there we have it. That's exactly who true the vote. Is there an organization that basically collects data surrounding voter fraud. Okay. And they've been doing this, this isn't their first rodeo. Okay. That's, that's a, that's an important distinction. And then an important thing to understand that this is not the first time that they've done this, this, they were not designed as an organization just to go after this election specifically, they've actually had some success in the past, including an indictment in 2020. And to show even further that they're not a partisan organization. Excuse me. They're not a partisan organization. They're not Republicans, they're not Democrats that the entire point of this is to take an approach that is non bias to making sure that there's fair elections. Okay. So in 2020, they actually were a part of the indictment and the overturning of a Republican who was caught cheating in an election, caught Harvey harvesting ballots and that person's position and role of winning that election was overturned. And he was, is now not a sitting politician than the role that he had won that election on from cheating. So they're not a bunch of Republicans who created this organization specifically to go after this election. I think that's an important distinction, right? You have to know that it's not bias. That data is not starting from a point of bias. That's a great way to realize that they actually have gone after successfully overturning election results for Republicans. We were caught doing this or a specific Republican. Okay. So now, now that we've kind of set that framework. That is who true. The vote is that is who Dinesh D'Souza teamed up with to come up with the data for this. And that is who is coming up with this election fraud answer as a result of these 2000 and mules. So if you listened to close enough there, what you have heard is the way that they went about this data mining, right? The way that they are looking at this election and the way that they are believing that this election was fraudulent is based on cell phone data. Geotracking okay. Now, if you don't know what that is, cause that's a long word and cell phones have only been around for 20 years in geo tracking specifically has only been around for a short amount of time. The, the data mining. And geotracking basically what that is is, is your phone everywhere you go. If you don't know this you're ignorant or, or maybe you just climbed out of a whole. Your phone's always tracking you right through apps, through your location services, whatever that is, but primarily through 300,000 apps that all work together and sell your data to people like the CIA law enforcement officials. There's, there's a, basically a big gathering of all this data in one specific place. Okay. So that's how they did it. They tracked these 2000 individuals in specific states, swing states, specifically in specific counties. The counties that mattered in those swing states because the amount of time it would have taken them to do the entire country would have been ridiculous, but they wanted to look at where the concentrated attention should have been, right. That the concentrated focus by these parties to try to steal this election would have been in these swing states in these counties at this time at these specific ballot boxes. Now we have that framework, right? So basically what they were doing is they were tracking these 2000 individuals and finding and mapping out people who were going between a ballot box to ballot box, to ballot box, to ballot box, too, to see how many people would have been involved in the fraud in these specific counties. And so they found 2000 people that were dropping off ballots and going from ballot box to ballot box to ballot box 25, 27, 50 in a row, in some cases. And often it was at two and three o'clock in the morning that they were doing this stuff. Okay. And what they would do is they would take basically they would go and we'll find out a little bit later with how they did it. But what they would do is they would essentially. Track this geo data find finds these patterns of people who are going from ballot box to ballot box to ballot box, and then they would kind of try to, to follow those people. And what they found was even more interesting. The people that came through that most important question of all was the magnitude of trafficking. Yeah. Okay, let's wait on that. That's going to be the mule math conversation, which is important to see, and that's going to be the next topic that we listened to and follow is, is, did this actually affect the outcome, right? Because great. There could have been mules. There's always mules, right? This always happens. As we saw in that 20, 20 election, this might have had an effect. Right. But did it affect the outcome of the election specifically? So that's that video, but what I was just discussing is the fact that they followed these patterns and what they found in these patterns specifically is the same cell phone IDs that they were tracking from ballot box to ballot box were actually in teeth, a riots prior to this. So I think that brings up an interesting conversation is, is, were these people recruited specifically because they were a part of Antifa or are these implanted people into Antifa who are designed to cause a stir are designed to get paid to do things like this election fraud, whatever it is. It's an interesting conversation that they found that out that not only were these people essentially being mules for these ballots and in trying to, or attempting to steal this election, but they're also a part of Antifa members who were violently rioting prior to this. Okay. So I think that's an important note is that the people that they were geotracking like all of the ideas that they found in these cell phones, also had some sort of correlation, not all of them, but a portion of them had some correlation with these Antifa riots as well. So I think it's an interesting conversation. Are they just a part of Antifa? And did they recruit people through NTFS specifically? Because. They know that those people are somewhat extremists and maybe more liable to keep their mouth shut, or maybe they had some dirt on them and said, we're going to arrest you. Or we're going to give this data over. If you do not do these things on our behalf, I don't know. But it's an interesting thing that they found out there that there is that correlation. So let's go ahead and watch this mule math conversation and see what, you know, w what is the actual effect of this, right? What is the math cause? 2000 people that doesn't seem like a lot right in election is 81 million people voted for, for Joe BARDA. And, that 2000 people does that seem like a lot. But when you look at the math, you see how many ballots they were harvesting and how many boxes that they went to in these specific states, it starts to add up. And so here is the mule math conversation, and let's see if this actually affected. The most important question of all was the magnitude of vote trafficking. And these key swing states enough to tip the balance in the 2020 presidential election. Let's first narrow in on just our 2000 mules, their average number of Dropbox visits, 38. There were average number of illegal ballots deposited per visit five that's 380,000 illegal votes, but was this sufficient to put Biden in the white house? To answer that question, we must look at each key state. In Michigan, 500 meals, averaging 50 Dropbox visits and five illegal ballots per drop. That's 125,000 illegally trafficked votes, not quite the 154,000 vote difference between Trump and Biden. So Michigan with its 16 electoral votes stays in the Biden column in Wisconsin. 100 mules averaging 28 Dropbox visits and five illegal ballot. Now real quick. I do like how they did that. I do like how they are pointing out the fact that, okay, this did not affect every state as at least if we're only taking into consideration these small counties and these small areas that we tracked, right? They're not just saying here's every single person had a tremendous effect on this election. No, it's not every single time they're pointing out the fact that like, they just showed a Michigan. If we only go by the mules from the data that we're pulling up here, it did not affect Michigan. Right. It did not overturn the electoral votes for that swing state specifically. So they're taken losses, they're taken Ellis first and they led with that. Right. This, in this specific state, in this specific county, this did not affect the electoral votes. Okay. And I think when we're talking about the bias conversation, that's important to note, right? Because in, in a situation you, you, we kind of expect it to a, and something like this, that's. Large accusation that it would in every state, in every situation in every county and in every electoral vote, that they'd overturned. Right. But it wasn't the case in the way that they just broke this down. So I liked that they did that. Let's continue for a drop that's 14,000 illegally traffic votes, 6,000 votes short to give Trump the wind. So using only our mules Wisconsin's 10 electoral votes stays in the Biden camp, but now we come to Georgia, 250 meals averaging 24 Dropbox visits and five illegal ballots per drop that's 30,000 illegally trafficked votes, far more than the 12,000 vote difference between Trump and Biden. Soar Georgia with 16 electoral votes moves over into the Trump. In Arizona, the numbers are roughly the same 200 meals averaging 20 Dropbox visits and five illegal ballots per drop. That's 20,000 illegal votes. Again, these illegal votes are substantially more than the 10,000 vote margin that gave the states 11 electoral votes. The Biden in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania alone, 1,100 meals averaging 50 Dropbox visits and five ballots per visit that's 275,000 illegal votes. Again, comfortably exceeding the 80,000 vote margin between Trump and Biden. So Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes goes for Trump. Shockingly, even this narrow way of looking at just our 2000 mules in these swing states gives Trump the wind with 279 electoral votes. The Biden's 259. But no one thinks that our 2000 mules were the only mules trafficking, illegal votes to widen the search, Greg and his team lowered the criterion from 10 or more to five or more. Dropboxes. So while he's explaining here is the fact that they were very conservative, according to him surrounding how they went about, is this a stolen election? Right? So they only looked at specific counties. And in those specific counties, did these geo location T ID tags show these individuals going from more than 10 or more Dropboxes in a single trip. Okay. So that was their initial criteria. And under the math that we just looked at, even that even the small margin that they just gave themselves there of 10 or more boxes, a single drop still gave him the election with 200. And I think it was 2 79 electoral votes. Okay. So even that small margin gave him the win, even 10 boxes or more. So what they're saying now is let's go back and let's be less conservative. Let's look at who went from, you know, because why in the hell would anybody be going. Ballot box to ballot box to ballot box to ballot box and let alone at three in the morning. Right. Which is what we're going to see, you know, in a lot of cases here. And in one thing I didn't mention is this is also where the, what they're doing is they've also ID. The same individuals with these geolocation tags, all of these ballot boxes, almost all of them had video evidence, like video systems, right there showing that these people were doing this right. So they would follow the geo tags. They would follow that individual to the Dropbox. They would see them and then pull up the video footage, which they got directly from the state. From a freedom of information act, they would actually get the video evidence and then they would match that with the geotags that there were. So it's not like they were just looking at these blips on a map. They were taking those blips, those geotags, watching these people go from ballot box to ballot box, and then they were polling the video feeds and seeing them literally stuffing stuffing ballots into the box to the point where some idiot had them dropping on the ground. In other cases, people were taking pictures of these people doing it because it looks so ridiculous. There's there was a lot of evidence here, but it was all substantiated with video. It was all substantiated with these ID tags from these geo locations on their cell phones. And then as far as this goes with the math that we're looking at now, they kind of take it back, right? They're like, okay, let's stop being so conservative because even if we are conservative, we can go with 10 ballots or more. And only these specific counties, which are swing counties in swing states. Let's take it back. Let's take it to five Dropbox's. Okay. Not 10, five. And again, why the hell would you go to Dropbox, to Dropbox, to Dropbox, to Dropbox, to Dropbox, right? It's not like they were all stuffed to the brim and it's not like the people that we're following here were a part of the election committee designed to pick these ballots up. No, the videos that they pulled show in every case, they were dropping multiple ballots off into into these ballot boxes. And that's how they got that generic number of like five. Right? In a lot of cases, you said that, you know, if you take a conservative number that they were only putting five and at the time of each Dropbox and there was 2000 in these specific counties, that's where we got this data from. Okay. So let's look at it, what it is when they're a little bit less conservative when they look at five Dropboxes instead of 10. the huge upsurge in the number of meals from 2000 to 54,054,000 mules next, they used a very conservative estimate of just three ballots for Dropbox visit. Now, when we multiply this increased number of mules times to five Dropbox visits per mule times just three illegal votes per drop. We find election fraud on an astonishing scale in Wisconsin, 83,565. Illegal votes were trafficked in Georgia, 92,670 in Pennsylvania, 209,505 and Michigan 226,590. And in Arizona. 207,435. Using this calculus. Trump would have won all the key states and the final electoral vote. 3 0 5 to 2 33. Now that is scary. That's terrifying. Every single one, every single one of these swing states. Trump won according to their data. Right? And that's that 2000 jumping to 54,000 is a crazy number. 54,000 people participated in this that's crazy. 54,000 people are out there right now who committed a felony and overturned the election. How many of those have to come out and speak? If the proper people get in front of them? How many of them are willing to give up the organization that did this? How many paper trails and financial trails are behind these 54,000 people when they brought it back down to five Dropbox's 2000 is the name of the, the is the name of the documentary only because that's all it took. And he's still one according to this data. But if you draw it back and you become less conservative, take that from five or 10 Dropboxes to five Dropboxes the number increases substantially. And in every single case, according to this data, Trump would have won. And that's terrifying. So there's potentially 54,000 people out there right now who participated in this alleged, alleged election fraud. That, that have information about what happened here. That know what the outcome was going to be, that, that participated in this felonious act. Felonious is kind of a silly word. I think there should probably be a better word for that, but felonious sounds like BOLO in the ass felonious at 54,000 people. That's a lot of loose ends. That is a lot of loose ends. And, and here's my point with all of this, right. I, I think it's important to note that if we actually went after these people, if we took this evidence and if the, the machine of what our country's capabilities are when it comes to what we can actually accomplish with the FBI, with the CIA, with the police, with the sheriffs, with w all of these organizations that we have set up, if we went at this full force and we have forced these people, we shoved this data down their throat. We sent every Sheriff's office, every CIA office, every FBI agent, a copy of this. For free, what would be the outcome of that? Right. And so I think there's definitely some ways that this can cause a triggering effectors, 54,000 loose ends out there right now that participated in this. And let's say 1% of those 54,000 people were able to speak up and were willing to give up the organization to avoid going to jail and having a felony on their record. That's 540 people that you would have that would, would have to testify that would have to say that they participated in this. And that's one fourth of the overall that it took with this 2000 to overturn the outcome of this. It's it's terrifying. Right? And then as I spoke about originally, you know, you have to, you eat whatever side you're on, you have to care about this. You, you, you cannot close your eyes to the fact that this election, the potential of this election being stolen is there, right? Th th th th the outcome of this may have not been completely legitimate, unless everything that they're saying is a lie and that they need to show this. I think they need to release this data. I think that that's something that I put out is that great job to nationals the data's there. You've shown that there a legitimate case for these mules having done this now release the data because there's millions of people in a position who are frustrated with the way that our election system is being run right now, who will see this and be so ready to be outspoken and a lot more people who are a lot more intelligent than me could use this data and, and, and put together a. A N breakable argument, right? And infallible arguments surrounding this, this election fraud. So we need to, we need the data we need. We need the license plates. We need the the corners of the city. We need the ballot boxes. We need all of that. We need to know who did this. We need the, every single person that was involved in that, that 54,000 that you tracked, let's put together a spreadsheet of what city, what state, what the timeframe was that timestamp of them dropping it off was what their license plate was. Cause I know you can see or what type of car they drive. Right? All of that is important. Okay. So now the next thing we're going to look at is the fact that Trump actually called this a little bit ahead of time. Right? If you, if you recall, the there was a big controversy surrounding all of the ballots that were being sent out to everybody as a result of COVID right? Cause COVID was there big sham surrounding this COVID was the reason that they had the capability to even accomplish this, right? Because the only way that they were able to get that many ballots to harvest, to drop in these drop boxes, allegedly was because under the guise that COVID would, shouldn't make it so that everybody should receive a ballot. Right. That, that was the reasoning. So here is Trump talking about this months before this even happened. And I believe it's Charlie Kirk that brings this up. Up to his credit tweeted out in July, mail-in ballots are a disaster and he was attacked so hard by camp. And Doocy in so many, but that was, he didn't have this information. Obviously instinct ended up being right. This is the tip of the iceberg. So that was a lot shorter than I thought. I thought they'd actually show where Trump talked about this. Yeah, Trump was very vehemently against the ballots being sent out. He said, it's going to be the biggest, I can't do a good Trump impression. The biggest fraud. That's terrible. Sorry. But, but he came out and said that, that this was going to happen, right. That the only reason they were pushing for all these ballots to be pushed out there, like literally everywhere was mailing ballots to almost everybody. And the reason that they pushed so hard to do that was because they knew that this type of organization could accomplish this. Right. So let's watch that next. I think that's important is how they did it. Okay. We'll watch that first. We'll listen to that portion. And then we will discuss it and then we'll look at the confession of the mule who actually brought it up themselves. All right, here it is. Okay. Everything from filling out absentee ballot request forms for voters, but having the ballot sent to them, to actually going to the voters and obtaining the ballots from them to stealing them out of mailboxes, to actually using high quality photocopying machines, to make their own balance. Look, these cases, unfortunately go on all the time. Trump to his credit tweeted out in July mail-in ballots are a disaster and he was attacked so hard by Kemp. And Doocy in so many. Well, he didn't have this information, obviously this is the tip of the iceberg. All right. So I thought I'd show you that twice because you know, it was such a quick clip. So what they said is there's, there's tons of ways to accomplish this, right? Anything from harvesting these ballots from people, from mailboxes of individuals who no longer live in that state to pushing people who are in senior homes, who are, who are mentally incapable of making these decisions themselves, to paying people in low-income areas to harvest their ballots and to be able to fill them out on their behalf and then go drop them off. So if there's $54,000 there 200,000, I think he said 200,000 total ballots. That were accomplished through this, then there's gotta be a trail. There has to be people who know this, like if there's 200,000 ballots that were a potential, there's 200,000 people out there that, that show this happened. Right. So now it's it's how do we prove that? How do we, how do we prove that these individuals allowed this to happen? There's a huge paper trail. I mean, that's literally like, what is that? There's 300 million people in the United States. That's like 1% of the total population and was involved in this fraud in some way, shape or form. So not, not the fact that they were actually a part of it or did it themselves, but the fact that their ballots were a part of that. So even, even if a lot of times might be against them even knowing. But I think that's important to know. All right. So here is the mule who actually confesses that this happened, right. Actually talks about the fact that they were a part of this scheme, what they were told to do, who told them to do it and why they did it. So here is that clip right now. So, what, what was your, what was your job like? What were you doing? A receptionist. So at some point you were asked or, or sort of instructed, I guess, to start receiving people's balance. I was just instructed to go ahead and receive balance from various Females mostly. And and on Friday they would come and pick up a payment. I assumed it was payments for what they were doing. So they would, during the week they would bring them in at various times. And then you would pay them. I call on a Friday. Is that kind of how it went? Yes. And then I would get a call to find out how many ballots were brought in. And if they were already prefilled out first and she would come to the office, look at them. And then before she left, she would either take them herself. But other times she would ask me if I could drop them off at the library. So what was the instruction? Just, oh, just to drop them off in the drop, the drop box, the early ballots. Can you give me an idea of how many you personally put into box hundreds could open? Yes. And was there a reason they wanted you, she wanted you to go to that Dropbox as opposed to maybe a city hall or especially on Congress? There's no commerce there and she wouldn't want me to take it in the evening when it was dark. Also, can you think this is widespread in Yuma county or elsewhere? I would say that. So do you think that people, you know, in San Luis, they believe that their vote matters? I don't think they know the meaning of one 40. Yes. Do you personally think that the elections in San Luis or free and fair? No. Terrifics, they've been fixed there already. No. Seriously. Who is gonna win the next election before it even happens? No. I think that last statement was an interesting one because I've heard this before now, the source of who I heard this from was a very high level, special forces individual. And I know that sounds like cheesy and silly. But it was, it was somebody who's done like security detail for, for the president. It is somebody that I knew through a business that I was in if like four or five years ago. And he spoke up about this and said something about how they, their elections are already known ahead of time. These corporations that are involved. And then when you specifically talk about why she was sent to those ballot boxes was because there was not cameras. Right? And that's when we're going to get into who did this, like who funded this? Where did the money come from? Right. And so the money, what we're going to find out, came from corporations who were funding these ballot boxes that were giving the avenue, giving the, the, the capability for people to be able to do this in the first place. Because now you don't have to walk into city hall and hand it to the nice lady behind the counter. You can go do this in the middle of the night without any cameras present. And in the middle of the night, this election can be stolen. Right. As we saw, like, if you recall back, like you think about the election, I remember like going to bed dis pretty darn confident that Trump was going to be our president. And then there was like this crazy swing and I'm in the Midwestern area. And there was an area specifically in Detroit where they boarded up the walls, like boarded up the glass windows of the place, where they were counting the ballots because they didn't want people to look inside. And then they pulled video footage of the of this van that pulled up and have boxes of ballots, boxes of ballots. And so there is a lot of shady things going on and that was at specifically like pretty sure where they were counting them, even, not just these shady little ballot boxes. But the shady little ballot boxes have a lot to do with that. And that's what we're gonna get into the conversation of who actually funded that. But I think it's important to kind of take a step back and talk a little bit more about true the vote. Okay. So true. The vote Catherine is the woman that was speaking about true the vote in, in the I don't recall the man's name, but Catherine was a woman. She was recently on Fox from true the vote to discuss, I don't know exactly what she was discussing, but Fox news and, and may even have been Tucker Carlson. Then she went on to, to discuss this. I'm not discussing this documentary, but discussing other election related matters. But she was told specifically by Fox news. And this came from Dinesh D'Souza that the director of this documentary specifically, that she was told not to discuss 2000 mules, she was told not to mention this documentary. She was told not to mention the data that they pulled that proved this all and not to talk about this documentary specifically, which is terrifying, right? How many, there's literally very, very few mainstream mainstream medias, that you can discuss that are not extremely liberal Fox news, obviously being the biggest one. And so if Fox news is stifling, this conversation, why, if their, if their team's player Trump who's a Republican was the, was the victim of this. Why would they not want people to know about this documentary that just tells you how powerful it is? And that tells you where Fox news loyalty law. Right. If they're not even allowing this woman to discuss a documentary where only facts are given, right. There's very little color commentary. The only color commentary that really comes from this comes from a little panel of, of conservative talking heads, like, who was in Dennis Prager from Prager U Charlie Kirk from the Charlie Kirk show and turning point. And then a couple other individuals that I'm not as familiar. But they had this little panel of people who you'll see in a little bit, I think where they were discussing some of these things and, and giving their opinions on them. None of the rest of this was really opinion based. It was all fact based. So the fact that Fox news did not even want this woman mentioning the name, mentioning the name of this documentary on live television is terrifying, is censorship. Right? So, so it just tells you a lot about what you should be looking into and where you're getting your news from. Right. And that's kind of a hard thing to like, where should you be getting your news? There's a few sources that I kind of pay attention to. One of them is a, is a great Instagram account called real news. No bullshit. So if you don't follow them, you should, they have some great content. It's very, very non-biased. They, they barely ever give any opinions. And when they do, they give, they have somebody who is on the conservative side of things. Somebody who's on a more liberal left side of things and they both give opinion. So they say, Hey, this person thinks this, this person thinks this, but here's the facts that we can display form your own opinion. And so that's important, right? Journalism used to always be that journalism was never really this opinion based manipulation of language to try and push their ideas and opinions onto you. News was always like, here's what happened? You form your own decision about it, right? You come up with the ideas. We are not here to give you the idea of truth, right. And just like, you know, it kind of interesting too, with the formation of the, the ministry of, of truth over with disinformation governance board. With Joe Biden. I'm not sure where that's at right now. I'm going to have to do some diving into that. And I'm going to do an episode a little bit later on this stuff where we're, you know, you have the Roe V Wade stuff that just came out and all the justices who are having these huge these huge protests in front of their houses and all of this stuff. So I, I will do it an episode coming up soon, hopefully in the next few days, it does talk on those points in some current events, but this is an important enough conversation I wanted to give it. Okay. So if you're enjoying this conversation right now, go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Go ahead and leave a five star review. If you didn't already do it, I forgive you. I will forgive you this one time hit that subscribe button hit the five star reviews. If you can write something nice about what, what you like about this podcast so far what you think about it, what you think about me, whatever it is, think of something to write in there. It helps push our, my content in front of more people and I would appreciate it so, so much. All right, now, the next thing you can do is go head over to red pill revolution that sub stack.com and sign up for our sub stack, where we have in the past been doing podcast companions. It takes two seconds to sign up. I'm finding a better workflow for these things. I know I've said that a couple of times, but I'm really looking forward to bringing it all together. This is only my 27th episode, 27th week, few months into this podcasting thing, but I've built it fairly quickly and fairly. I had a lot of success. So I'm, I'm still trying to work through all the moving parts of this. So, bear with me on a couple of these things. Now, the other thing that you can do is go ahead and follow us on YouTube. I'm going to revamp the rumble page now, so I can actually post this full episode on there. Cause I will not be able to post this on YouTube because the one thing that will really get you polled and banned forever is talking about any sort of election fraud, which absolutely does not exist. So, make sure you follow on all channels, including the. Eventually we'll get unshadowed band. You got to type in the full name at red pill, revolt the at symbol red pill, revolt. Same thing for truth, social, same thing for Twitter just has two T's at the back of it. I haven't posted on there yet, but you can follow there. Eventually. I may That's what I got for you. So let's go ahead and look at a little bit more about this, who they did it to. Okay. And that is a former Supreme court justice in Wisconsin named Gabriel man has done it for a preliminary report. He talks about the fact that there are approximately 90,000 people in Wisconsin who are in resident care facilities or nursing homes. Sure. She's basically not capable any longer. Even remaining awake for more than a few minutes. And so were you surprised that you voted in February, 2021? Absolutely. But I was surprised to hear that she voted in the last president. Now, if you're listening to this and not watching, there's a woman, who's in a hospital facility, in a bed who is literally incapacitated with air running into her nose with her mouth and jaw just dropped open, looking like she's on her death bed. And that's who they're talking about, who who's completely incapacitated, could not sign the ballot at all. And this person voted in, in to their own families surprise. Right. So just to give you that visual. Much to my surprise. She had voted for the last off and on for the last 10 years, I guess in my mind, I thought if you put your parent into a facility because they were incapacitated, they would not even be offered. The volt, they make you, they make you vote here and, and so how do they make you vote? I didn't want to vote. And they told me I had, that is a real problem. Clearly it was a problem in Wisconsin, 2020, but unfortunately that's a perennial problem in other states, too. What happens is you have staff in those Ersing and what he's talking about with Wisconsin in 2020, he's specifically talking about that candidate that had the election overturned as a result of this data coming out. So just to give you some context, Oh, sometimes they are activists politically. They get these individuals registered to vote, or it's already registered to vote. They will request absentee ballots in their names, sometimes forging their signatures and then filling out the ballots for them just prior to the 20, 20 election, the state of Texas and died at a social worker in a home for young people who were basically mentally incompetent. She had sent in over a hundred voter registrations for these individuals who were not legally competent to vote. What about homeless shelters? You need to look. If a homeless individual is mentally capable, they ought to be able to vote 40th. The only place they can list as registered address the homeless shelter. That's fine. But the problem there is that it's very easy. I think for them to be intimidated and coerced in Chicago, the largest election fraud case, the U S justice department ever prosecutor. They were paying homeless individuals to cast ballots the way they wanted them to cast ballot, which is even worse, right? Like they are literally taking advantage. They are taking advantage of the elderly of the homeless of the mentally incapable to fraudulently win elections. That is who these people are going after. It's not like they're give shelling out bunches of money to help families in need. They're going after the mentally incapable individuals who cannot even have a voice for themselves. And that's probably why they do it is because these people are not going to be the ones who are testifying in front of Congress. When their slack jaw open, their eyes shot on a hospital bed about to die. Talking to people who are about to die. There was even the election ballots that were found of people who fuck. Yeah, these people were dead done in the dirt somehow signing their signature and checking off boxes for Joe Biden to win the election. That's how far they're willing to go. That's who these people are. That's who we're dealing with. They're willing to take advantage of the most. Disaffirm the most disenfranchised people in our society. The most incapable individuals they're willing to take advantage of them so that their candidate can win the president. That's how far these people are willing to go. How disgusting is that? How disgusting is that? It's terrible. The, the people that they're going to go after are the, the, the most incapable individuals who can not fend for themselves, who can not speak up at a Senate hearing, right? Th these are the type of people that we're dealing with in these situations, the, the nursing home facility caretakers, right? And, and I wonder how really organized this whole thing was right. If all these people in all these facilities, these people that are workers in these types of facilities are the ones that are accomplishing this, who are who's funding them, who is giving them the money to take advantage of these people, to push their own ideologies and to fill out these ballots on their behalf. And that's what we'll find too. And what they said is, is that these ballots come in, regardless, even if you like move, right. Even if you move your ballot still going to go to your old address, it's not always going to be updated. So in, in sometimes we'll even said multiples and now an interesting thing to realize about the ballots is that they're not, they don't have the name on them, but what, what, where they have the name on the ballot with the name and the address is on the envelope that they send them in. Okay. So the envelope that they send these ballots in are sent with a name and an address on them. Now, the ballot that is inside of that envelope is empty. There's no person's name, there's no data. There's nothing on there other than who you want to vote for. And so there's no trackable way of looking at who these ballots represent. Okay. And that's an important distinction because if we knew who these people were, and we could look at who these ballots were stolen from or who they were manipulated from, then we would be able to track them, look back and find out and have a conversation with them, send the FBI's and the, you know, true to vote, whoever, whoever it is that would be going after these people, we would be able to have a discussion with them. But the way specifically that they went about this made it so that there's no traceable way of finding out okay. Tariffs. Terrifying. And all of this stuff was in the original legislation. All of the, all of the the stuff that was passed prior to this election happening was, was released within the legislation that was happening during COVID during all these emergency orders for why we need to send out millions of ballots, to homeless individuals and, and mentally, and K capable individuals and incapacitated elderly individuals. Right. Like horrible. Okay. That's who we're dealing with. That's who they do it too. Okay. Now the next thing we're going to look at is who funded this, right? Who is paying the money and how did they fund it and where did they fund it? And there's going to be some very, very familiar names and the ones that people have been pointing to for a few years now, As the individuals who are behind the curtain. So let's go ahead and see who was actually funding these ballot boxes, who is actually funding these organizations and what hopefully we can, or who we can eventually point a finger at to, to go after once this house of cards falls. Pull off a heist like this on a national scale would take deep pockets. They wanted to find out where the money might've come from, who could have funded the highest people, think of three rivers of money, really that empty into the Gulf of elections. The hard dollars to drive a check to a candidate the second year soft money or dark money. And then. The third river that people tend to neglect, but capital research centers studied intently, and that is the 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit money. The kind of charity that you get to take a tax deduction for that river is enormous in the 2018 cycle, about $21 billion. Now, what do the IRS regulations say about the involvement of these nonprofits by I law? These nonprofit charities are forbidden to directly intervene in elections in any way, or to help a particular party or. The IRS is emphatic that you cannot intend or even have the effect of helping one party or candidate over the other. Now let's talk about some of the key elements of this particular network that we're focusing on. We have, we have drop boxes and those drop boxes are, most people would think funded entirely by the states. In other words, the Dropbox is in Georgia funded by the state of Georgia, but that's not entirely the case in the 2020 election. There was an unprecedented hundreds of millions of private dollars going into government election offices, the 470 million or so dollars were sent by mark Zuckerberg and his wife. We did our part to secure the integrity of the election. There were a few other places that put in much smaller. It's one entity that put in $25 million was again a nonprofit that's part of the Arab Bella advisers, which as a total empire in 2020, took in $1.7 billion. Is there any evidence that this operation had a partisan thrust or a partisan character? As we all know, big money rarely comes without strings attached. One of the big ones is lots and lots of Dropbox's also lots and lots of vote by mail to get your nice big checks. You had to do things like have Dropbox. Encourage vote by mail, have ads in foreign languages, all kinds of things that little by little are nudging the turnout for one particular political party. In addition to the 470 or so million dollars that went into the duck buck operation, you also had in 2020, $120 million project, very secretive called the voter registration project. The 120 million. It came from sorosis foundation. It came from veces foundation. It came from Warren Buffett's foundation. Of course, mark Zuckerberg, Warren buffet, George Soros, and even visa visa. The same people that you have in your wallet right now that you give your money to is putting it towards ruining our democracy. Okay. So these are the individuals that were behind this and the way that they did it was sneaky. The way that they did it was by funding these states and these cities that, and making it so that they had to put forth these ballot boxes that they had to put out absentee ballots in their city or state. And they did them under the guise of COVID. We didn't get to the point where they mentioned it, but what this talks about a little bit later in that conversation is the fact that they did it under the idea that they were going to be doing it for safety regulations. Right. So you're not normally allowed to, to push money towards these people. Right. But the way that they did it was, oh, we're going to do it so that you can have plexiglass when people go to vote, that you can have masks at the door, which we know. Work. Okay. That's the way that they did it. They find these sneaky little ways that they can funnel money into these organizations so that they can push the needle 5%. Right? 5% is all. It takes 2000 people of a 300 million person country. We're responsible for overturning the select. And of that. There was a forest specific organizations that he mentioned that funded these things very much. So the biggest being mark Zuckerberg and Facebook who just quoted himself saying we did our part to ensure the the that this election was safe and fair. Right. Do you remember how many news people, how many Hollywood folks, all of these gross, disgusting people pushing out it's a safe and fair election. How many times did you hear that? And even in on Fox news, right? There's a clip from this that I wanted to pull on. Maybe I'll pull it to push out there onto some of these social networks. Was that all, all of the news media clips of these little talking points of feels safe and Pharaoh, the safest most fairest election in the history of the world really. How would you even know that to begin with you work for Fox, you work for CNN, you work for these organizations that are the most involved in, in pushing ideology onto our country and pushing propaganda of our government. So why in the world would we trust any of you? Right. Why in the world would we listen to any of you saying that this is safe and fair and how the hell would, you know, to begin with you will don't you're just speaking out of your ass because the candidate that you wanted to win or, or the, the, the, the organization that's pays your salary, told you to say it, and you did it because you got paid to do it, or you didn't lose your job as a result. And now we have a fundamentally flawed democracy. Now we have a large portion of our country, of the United States that does not believe. And, and from what this documentary outlined specifically rightfully does not believe that our democracy is safe in fare from election fraud. We know that now they have the data. Right. And I would, again, I would really like to see this data because the documentary is very compelling in the way that it speaks of it. But I think that they need to show it to people. And so I saw something on true to vote, where they said something about ripcord, right? So they're, they're eventually planning to put this data out. And I think you can go to the true, the vote.org, Tru T R U E the vote.org. And you will see you can sign up for their mailing list. You can even fund them what you should do with the data that they're putting out here, give and donate to them. You can do so now, speaking of donations, go to true the vote.com or.org. I'm sorry. And donate there. Or you can also go after you give them some money, go to, go to give sango.com/red pill revolution, and you can donate to, to the red pill revolution podcast to myself to help continue this podcast. I'm not monetized. I make very little, basically no money off of this. I eventually plan on doing some sort of monetization. We do have a Patrion set up where, where there's bonus content, where there is videos, the full video episode is up there. We usually do have specific topics. We're not going to have that off of this week's episode, because this is specifically on the 2000 meals conversation, but you can sign up for the for the. You can also go to gifts and go.com/red pill revolution and donate to us there. And the Patrion is patrion.com/red pill revolt. It's $5 to sign up. You get the bonus content, you get the full video episode. You get the, the RSS feed, lots of cool stuff. Of once we get enough people on there, we're going to be doing a live full episode there as well. So head over there right now, patrion.com/red pill. Revolt, go ahead and donate at give, send, go.com/red pill revolution, and I would appreciate it so much. And then head over to true devote.com and help support these people with all that they've done to help with this here. Okay. Now, speaking of this, let's talk about what they're going to say to diminish this conversation, because I think that's important. We cannot take a bias eyes closed approach on this. We have to be able to look at both sides. We have to be able to see you know, what the fact checkers are saying about this and Denise, Denise,  just came out with a fact checking the fact checkers article, where he actually discusses and refute some of the information of the fact checkers. But here is Charlie Kirk discussing what he thinks. So try to invalidate it. One is minimizing and then slander. So they'll try to slander Dinesh personally, they'll say, oh, Trump pardoned him or whatever. Therefore he's trying. Get back to Trump to try to reinforce the big lie. I could already see the headline in the Washington post Trump. Pardon? Ally comes out with questionable movie. I predict right now they will say, what on earth is a conservative doing tracking private citizens. Gee, how dang, what is the national? As soon as it's doing to voters at 3:00 AM, in fact, I mean, that'll be positive. The word will be intimidation. They'll say no person is safe. Communities of color are being tracked. People. Black neighborhoods are now going to have to fear for their life that their cell phone pings will be paired. And this is, this is Jim Crow, 2.0, I disagree with that. This is not going to be compelling enough. This is a smoking gun. This is OJ Simpson being seen, leaving the scene of the crime. I don't care how part is in you. Are you can't dismiss all of this. How do you explain somebody going to a whole bunch of different Dropboxes with a whole bunch of different ballots on the same night at 3:57 AM in the morning. I like how he said that this is, this is the OJ Simpson leaving the scene of the crime. It can not be ignored. Well, I don't know if you remember correctly, but OJ Simpson got off. So you're probably more accurate than the not because there's, I highly doubt that there's going to be an overturning of the election. That there's going to be a de-legitimizing of the election as a result of this. I don't even know what that would cause how would, what would be the outcome? Right? What would happen if they're like. We agree. The data shows that Trump won. Would they kick Joe Biden out of the office and then bring in Trump like, God, that would be crazy. That would be nuts. What in the world would come of this? If they actually did overturn the election as a result of this data and this information I think that's a more important, like they're probably the most important question is if they do decide that this is acceptable and that they're going to go after these people and agree them what, there's no precedent that's been set for that, right? There's, there's no situation in the history where you know, they've taken somebody out of the office a year and a half into it. Now I do think that speaks enough to Dinesh D'Souza the fact that he was able to accomplish it so quickly because I'm sure a documentary of this size is very difficult to get out there and to put together in a year, a timeframe. So good, good on him. I can not praise him enough for putting this together. It's a very compelling documentary and again, you should go pay for it. Go. Wow. I only have eight minutes of clips on here of the total, the total thing. So you should go watch the entire thing. It's an hour and a half. It's $30. You can get to that locals.com. I think there's a few different ways that you can get it. And the other one is like a Salem Salem video or something like that. So there's a few different ways that you can go about seeing this entire documentary, but you should absolutely do it. It's very compelling. The V the information that I'm giving you here as a sliver of the overall information and the sliver of the overall entertainment aspect of this, it's a very, very compelling argument. You should absolutely go pay that $30 and go see this documentary. Sit down with your spouse, sit down with a pen and paper and form your own opinion. I do not want to shove this down your throat. I got, I am very I don't know. I watching this document. Really made me. And I had that belief before this, a lot of people do, a lot of people smelled it. Like you can smell the bullshit. Right? We all knew that there was something fishy going on when Trump was just trashing everybody. And then all these ballots come in in the middle of the night. And then all of a sudden he's losing, right. We all smell some, some, some than from this. Right. But what would happen? What would happen if they decided that this was actually a fraudulent election? If they decided to accept that go after these 20 or 54,000 mules go after just the 2000 murals that they have going the 10 Dropboxes and the de legitimizes the outcome of the election, what would happen? How did they do that? And I don't see that

In episode 8, Micah and I discuss my recent flight on Southwest where I flew from Burbank to Sacramento. It was a short flight and I learned a lesson... when flying on Southwest, you don't earn United miles... Actually, I knew that but I explain why I flew on Southwest for this part of my Journey. We also discussed masks, similarities of flying to Hawaii and Europe on single aisle aircraft, and we have a new Patrion member...

When America's politicians were scared of a edible spread. When James Blaine and Roscoe Conkling first squared off, setting in motion a political rivalry for the ages. And ranking the Secretaries of State. When South Carolina's Senator Robert Hayne spoke in the Senate in 1830 to criticize Massachusetts and its Senator Daniel Webster, that senator replied, in a four-hour speech that defended the patriotism of his home state, attacked the logical points Hayne and made about a state's right to veto a federal law, and called for the Union to be cherished. Daniel Webster's speech set the stage for the administration's position in the tariff nullification crisis. It also set standards for federal and state roles in government, and that still has lots of relevance today. We are part of Airwave Media Podcast Network Advertise on this podcast: sales@advertisecast.com Support us on Patrion - patreon.com/mhcbuyp Make a one=time donation - https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=KCK98X972XWWU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week's episode of Red Pill Revolution, we discuss the recently released Watch the Water documentary which claims that we have all been secretly poisoned with king cobra snake venom disguised as a virus through our water supply; We also discuss Twitter going broke because they went woke, Musk still attempting to save the free world and buy Twitter and the difficulties he is running into and also the federal travel mask mandate being dropped! All of that and more on this week's episode! On this week's Patreon-only bonus content, we discuss Wiki-leaks releasing Hunter Bidens full laptop contents, Julian Assange being extradited, BP gaslighting the entire world, and more! You can add the bonus RSS feed right to your favorite podcast player! The Patreon begins at only $5 and includes weekly bonus topics, full video episodes, and more! Sign up now at: https://Patreon.com/redpillrevolt ----more---- For all the articles, videos, and documents discussed on this week's podcast join our substack!  Podcast Companion Substack: https://redpillrevolution.substack.com ----more---- Please consider leaving a donation for all of the hard work that goes into this ad-free podcast. I love doing what I do and can only continue through your generosity and support!  Donate https://givesendgo.com/redpillrevolution  ----more----   Full Transcription:   Welcome to red pill revolution. My name is Austin Adams. Red pill revolution started out with me realizing everything that I knew, everything that I believed, everything I interpreted about my life is through the lens of the information I was spoonfed as a child, religion, politics, history, conspiracies, Hollywood medicine, money, food, all of it, everything we know was tactfully written to influence your decisions and your view on reality by those in power. Now I'm on a mission, a mission to retrain and reeducate myself to find the true reality of what is behind that curtain. And I'm taking your ass with me. Welcome to the rebel. Hello, and welcome to red pill revolution. My name is Austin Adams, and thank you so much for joining me today. This is episode number 25 of the red pill revolution podcast, and we have some very interesting stuff to get into today. The things that we're going to touch today are going to range anything from Joe Biden being directly. By the Easter bunny himself. Yeah. You heard that, right. And then we're going to talk about the dropped recently dropped federal mandate surrounding masks, which is a big, big win for freedom. Now that our oppressors have allowed us not to have to have our face covered all of the time. If we want to have the privilege of going somewhere across this great nation, we're also going to touch on where the is at currently with Elon Musk and Twitter. We're going to talk about the four, the per cent increase in overall death in the ages of 19 to 40 years old. I really can't begin to fathom the implications of that. But I'm sure we all can conclude maybe potentially why there's been a 40% increase in overall deaths in the ages of 19. Just in the last two years, and this is a life insurance study we're also going to discuss briefly the watch the water documentary, which was also quite deep and concerning. And I have some questions. I have some reservations. I have some observations that we will talk about during that as well. And then we're also going to discuss briefly the Netflix situation with Netflix dropping basically 30% overnight, which a lot of people are attributing to the woke agenda by Netflix, themselves. So all of that more today, but the first thing I need you to do is go ahead and hit that subscribe button. It takes just a second of your day, and that means the world to. Every day, every day, we try and think of ways that we can give back to the world and give good karma, you know, get, get good karma back. And in one way you can do that is by doing good things for others. And you can do something great for me right now that will come back around to you. I know it by just hitting that subscribe button for me. I would appreciate it so much. I worked very hard. And it means the world to me that you're even listening, let alone considering subscribing. So go ahead and click that button right now. It takes two seconds out of your day. Makes a huge difference in your universal karma. Press that button right now. And if you could also leave a five-star review, I would appreciate it a lot that helps us basically get higher on the ratings pages. It also tells me that what I'm doing is valuable to you. If you can take it just a minute to click that five-star button and even better, go ahead and read a review or write a review up there for me. Tell me what I'm doing. Great. Tell me the most ridiculous thing that you've ever learned from this podcast. One of the maybe crazier things that you've learned by going through these episodes, I would love to hear about it. Go ahead and leave a review right now. Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever the hell you're at. Go ahead and do that for me. Now let's go ahead and jump into this first topic, which is going to be the Easter bunny himself now being in a better position to manage our country than our own president. It was Easter weekend. And on on Sunday, Joe Biden went and spoke in front of a group of people and was basically ushered around by what seemed to be a, possibly like a secret service agent or I don't know who it was, but, but there's some, some funny, some funny thoughts on that. So let's go ahead and I'll walk you through the video here, if you're listening. And we'll, we'll talk about it after. What you're going to see here is going to be Joe Biden on this fence, talking to some nice people and beginning to answer questions while the, the Easter bunny basically runs in front of him, waves his arms in front of the president of the United States. Like he's a toddler who is about to jump off of a cliff so that he doesn't answer this individual's questions. Then I want to see that again. Let's see if we can get that back. So it was really funny to me. I think, I think my favorite viewpoint on this was the idea that it was not the Easter bunny that was doing this. It was actually Barack Obama hidden in the Easter bunny costume. You know how there's all these conspiracies around how Barack Obama is in his third term. Just like you said, that he would do by the way, which is kind of eerie and weird that he mentioned that he would, you know, if I could have my way, he said, I don't have a very good Barack Obama impression. If I could have my way, I would have a third. And do my third term. I would just have somebody else that pretended to be there for me, I'll have to find the clip to get the exact, to the exact information that he said there and maybe improve my Barack Obama voiceover. But it it's a hilarious, hilarious idea that Barack Obama himself dressed up as the Easter bunny to usher the president of the United States around and eliminate him from actually as answering questions from the general population that he should answer to technically. Um, but who am I? Just a guy, right? So the next thing that we're going to touch on. It's going to be the mass mandate and this is pretty, I mean, it's pretty awesome and it's pretty sad that it's awesome. I think is the best way to put it. When, when your oppressor loosens the handcuffs, right. I think is the best analogy for this. I'm sure there's a better one, but I think that's the best one I have on the, off the cuff right now. Oh, off the cuff. Good, good one. There I'm. So off the cuff, the best one I have is based on handcuffs and but, but I think it is, it's like they they, they, they backed us into this position where you literally were masking toddlers, who were, you were forced forcing Todd three year olds, three year olds to, to wear masks and, and have to be put in a situation where they're uncomfortable for hours on end with no scientific backing for the reason why at all, at all, not a single reason, not a single reason that a toddler should be wearing a mask and you force them to do there's many people like my family, I have children. Who we just didn't travel on the plane. We weren't going to do that. I would never put my, my three, two, whatever year old in a position where they have to wear a mask like that because I just think it's wrong. I think that it, it positions you in a place where you're going to end up in some, well, at least for me, I know I would end up in some sort of conflict if somebody tried to force that upon my child. And it, it's just unbelievable to me that we have such Stockholm syndrome that when they loosened our cuffs and allowed us to not have to wear a piece of cloth over our face that we know did literally nothing all of a sudden it's a big party. Right? You see all the videos of the pilots coming on over the loudspeakers. If you're, if you know the pilots that this was coming though, it's like a pilot's personality is, is a little interesting. I was air traffic control in the air force. So similar, similar site type of atmosphere there. But but the, the pilots that were coming on were just like kind of excited to go over the loudspeaker and excuse me just to let you guys know, the TSA has now told us that you no longer have to wear masks and yeah. Enjoy your flight wins one 70. It's a, it's a, it's pretty cool to see that everybody is celebrating this. I haven't really seen very many negative videos surrounding this, which. You saw like flight attendants, walking down and dancing and singing music and like trying to get people to throw their masks. So it's, it's pretty, it's, it's cool. But like I said, it's almost concerning that it's cool because it should have never been so in the first place, right. There's no reason I should have ever showed about implemented. It was unlawful. And hopefully I had somebody comment about kind of like what w where could we go legally from here? I think that's an interesting conversation that we kind of have to have is because if there was a, if there is some sort of legal recourse if you were kicked off of a plane or put on a no fly list or forced to wear a mask while you had that's one thing that bothered me is like, even the medical exemptions, right? Like now there's people who are going to take advantage of that, but there's always going to be people who take advantage of things, just because there's people who take advantage of things does not mean that you don't have to submit to them based on the Americas American disability act. Right. Like, just, just because there's going to be a Small few who take advantage of that. Maybe it sound small for you, but fuck you. I don't have to wear a mask anyways. Right. Like, and, and how do you know, how can PIPA laws don't even allow you to know my medical history? Right? So there was people who were being shut out, people who are being not allowed on flights because they wouldn't wear a mask because they wouldn't violate HIPAA laws and tell a stewardess about their anxiety disorder or about their breather CLPD and all of these things that would affect them negatively to have to wear a mask. There's literally no reason that we should have been in this situation to begin with. And it's so frustrating being a parent, knowing that for three years, almost we weren't able to travel that way because of some unlawful mandate given out by the, the, the powers that be the CDC and the TSA and the the whatever bullshit acronym you want to give. Some, some power to it's just so frustrating. So I, I think it's cool. I think it's awesome. Let's go ahead and watch this video about the mass mandate so we can get a little bit more details on it, then we'll discuss it again. Real real briefly. Here, here it is out of Florida where a federal judge has just overturned the CDCs national mask mandate for planes and other forms of public transportation. Joining me now is NBC news, justice correspondent, Pete Williams. So Pete will this, does this mean that everyone can take their mask off inside a plane or is there another step? Well, that's what the judge says. We're waiting to hear what the centers for disease control TSA and the FAA S. I doubt that planes in flight for example, know about this or that most airlines are even quite aware of what they're supposed to do now. No comment yet from the justice department about what it will do, although I suspect that the government will seek a stay of this judge's order. So this is a federal judge in Tampa, Florida, who has ruled in a lawsuit, brought by a group called the health freedom defense fund, and two women who said that they didn't like wearing masks on a plane. One of them said that her anxiety was aggravated by having to wear a face mask. And the other said the mask constricted breathing and provoked or exacerbated her panic attacks. And the judge has said two things here that the centers for disease control did not have the authority to issue this mask under the law that set up the CDC. And secondly, but the federal government failed to go through all the necessary. In making a rule like this in seeking public comment. Now, the judge said, normally speaking, in a case like this, she would issue a ruling in favor only of the parties to the lawsuit. In other words, would not apply only to them, but the judge who is Katherine Kimball, Mizelle of Tampa said that's not possible that it would be hard to distinguish them from others. And then she says if, if she were to try to limit it, how is the ride sharing driver, the flight attendant or the bus driver to know that somebody was a plaintiff to this lawsuit with permission to enter mass free, that just wouldn't work. So she has declared the mask mandate illegal. She has struck it down now as I said, I don't know what the government's going to do about this. I would see, I would think they'd seek a stay of her ruling. This was the mass mandate. Of course, as you mentioned, applied to airplanes, trains buses, other kinds of mass transit. And in the case of airplanes, it's been extended several times because the government has said that it's been effective in helping to prevent the spread of COVID, but we just don't know what the federal government is going to do here. I would certainly guess they'll try to put a stop to this and get, and get a stay while this is appealed. Pete, two years into the pandemic, though, with this mass mandate that has been in place for so long. Why the lawsuit now? Why would it get overturned now? Well, the lawsuit was actually filed last year. It was filed last July. So it's been going through grinding its way through the court in the, in, in this before this judge who, by the way, issued this a decision without a trial on summary judgment based only on the arguments that were made in the written briefs. I think that may be another cause of concern here. This this is going to be a very controversial ruling. It's going to be a victory for people who have hated the mass mandates, but the government seems to believe that they are effective. All right. So that's enough of that guy. So, the, the point of it is it was struck down by a federal judge. They've gotten some heat for it. And what's even more interesting is that the white house is now coming back and saying that they're going to fight this. Like, Biden's now saying that he's going to push for this to be appealed and in, see if he can get this changed back. Right. So what it was is they came out and said, we're gonna, we need two more weeks. Right. They extended us two more weeks. And then within those two weeks that they were extending it from the white house's perspective. This federal judge struck this down as a response to a group, the freedom, something you heard of in that video, who basically put in a lawsuit was saying that this is an unlawful mandate and is not constitutional. And the judge agreed with. So now where we're at is basically that the Biden administration is now saying that they're even going to go back and fight this. Now, even on the, especially one thing people have pointed out is that sound in the election year, right? We're where his approval rating is so low already. And now he's going to go against what majority of people believe should, should be the case and make a big push against people's right to their own body. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. I think if anything else, it's good for the Republicans that this is even a conversation again, because it's gonna look really bad on Biden if he makes this push to eliminate or make mass mandated again, beyond what the federal government or judge ruled which is seemingly it shouldn't be his place, right? I mean, if they make a ruling that's based off of the constitution not based off of the opinion of the woke mob which I think is an important distinction. However, one that. Don't seem to have our politicians make very often. Now the next conversation we're going to have us running, Elon Musk and Twitter. So it's, it's been a tough week for Elon Musk. I mean, never, probably I wonder if I bet you every week's actually tough for him it seems like it wouldn't be with how rich he is, but I'm sure he has more responsibility and more weight on their shoulders than any of us can even imagine. I digress. What I think it is going on here is, is basically the Twitter did something where they basically purged their shares, where they put out a big pump of, or going to, I don't know the exact case of it, but they're going to put out a bunch of new shares to dilute the overall value, which again, is, is leading them into a position where they could be given a lawsuit by their shareholders because they're not accomplishing their fiduciary responsibility, which basically means that they have a responsibility to their shareholders to do what's in the best interest of the company and to them. And, and they're obviously not doing that when somebody offers far above what it was worth two weeks ago to buy the entirety of the company. And, and for the purpose, specifically of the reason of not wanting to give the anything Alonzo, like as Eve on the Elon, even the right, has he ever come out and said, he's a Republican? Like, why is this, why is this so crazy that, that a billionaire wants to buy a social media outlet, right? Like like people were showing that. I think it was Bloomberg came out with articles, like raving raving, about how about how Jeff Bezos bought the Washington post and how it was great for democracy and how mark for the entrepreneurs of the world that they get a say in the political sphere and this whole thing. Right. And, and, and now the second that Elon Musk another. It says that he wants to jump into the conversation around social media, because he feels like the freedom of speech hindrance is being taken too far right between these companies. Which again, I agree with fully as I sit here completely shadow banned on Instagram. It will be one month to the day where I lost my entire Instagram platform tomorrow. So we'll see if the 30 day mark allows that shadow ban to fall off. And I hope it does. Cause I found some new, awesome ways to do some videos and do a lot more content for you guys. So look out for that. If you don't follow our Instagram, it's at red pill revolt on Instagram you can also check our new website. I made it, I made a website over the last A couple of weeks trying to get off of these platforms a little bit and have a place for you guys to go. That's not specifically based on somebody allowing me to be there. So I built a website it's red pill, revolution dot C O M red pill, revolution dot C O. And eventually I'll probably get the.com. I'm waiting on some response rooms. So anyways, I digress again. I'm digressing a lot. Yeah, go check out the website, red pill, revolution dot C O, which is kind of cool. Yeah. Anyways, let's move on. Elon Musk is trying to buy Twitter. They are diluting the shares and they're trying to stop him from doing so. So here's a video on that. I believe it's from the hill. And we'll go ahead and watch that right now. And then again, we'll discuss it. Robbie, what's on your radar. Well, Elon Musk offer to buy the entirety of Twitter, turn it into a private company and correct what he feels is a waning commitment to the principles of free and open source. Has drawn both praise and criticism. So many people who share Elan's to satisfaction with the platform, including Republicans and conservatives who think it discriminates against oops, Robbie, what's on your radar. So here it goes again. Let me, let me go hide. And Twitter turned it into a private company and correct what he feels is a waning commitment to the principles, order free and open. Every indication that it sides with the traditional gatekeepers of information is inclined to fend off must bid. So the company adopted a poison pill approach late last week. This is a well-known corporate tactic intended to thwart a potential buyer. So in this specific case, Twitter would flood the market with additional shares available for sale. If must stake in the company reaches 15% effectively Twitter plans to dilute his stake, making it much harder for him to reach the 51% threshold. Now, Twitter is ultimately interested in muscles. Well, this gives them more time to consider it and time as well to look for other potential buyers. So we have a pretty good idea of what the board of Twitter wants. It wants to hold onto its power. They're offered to make musky member of the board was probably one board of a desire to control and quiet him as a board member. He would have an obligation to the company not to disparage it publicly and thus, he would no longer be able to tweet his thoughts about ways in which Twitter should be different, but that brings him to the real subject of this radar. What exactly does Elon Musk want to change about Twitter? If we know that then we don't have to get into the thornier questions of which group of people do you like better, which governance structure do you think is preferable. Instead we can just quite literally evaluate the individual ideas for improving the platform. Now, fortunately it must cause. And interview late last week, let's watch. Well, I think it's very important for that'd be an inclusive arena for free speech where, so yeah, Twitter has become kind of the de facto town square. It's just really important that people have the, both the the reality and the perception that they are able to speak freely within the bounds of the law. And know, so one of the things that I believe Twitter should do is open-source the algorithm and make any changes to people's tweets. If they're emphasized or deemphasized that action should be. It made apparent. So anyone can see that that action has been taken. So there's, there's no sort of behind the scenes manipulation, either algorithmically or manually later on in that interview, Musk articulated support for a feature of many people have demanded a Twitter edit button. So you could alter a tweet after you send it book has this function. So it's workable in some sense, there's a little note that appears showing that you edited. It must also talked about removing ads for premium subscribers, providing other perks for those willing to pay more. He also wants to eliminate spam and scam bots, and he's even given some indication. He thinks some tweets should be longer, should not be bound by the character count. Now, in my view, many of these ideas, they have merit more transparency. It would be a massive improvement. It's critical for the people to know why and how the platform decides to reward and punish them. So the ultimate goal should be to devolve content, moderation to users, instead of Twitter, deciding for you what it thinks you ought to see what it thinks is dangerous or what it thinks is. So one thing that I think is interesting about that is, is the approach that Elan's talked about, where, where he basically says that he believes that it is absolutely necessary to the survival of humanity, that there is freedom of speech and the survival of democracy. Right? That's a very fair statement to make. I think that Elon Musk is like literally the, the, the, if there was like a legitimate, real world, iron man. I think, I think it's Elon Musk it's, it's, it's great to see that there is somebody who represents the general public, somebody who is, is in our corner at least feels like they are. And maybe that's a reason to question that I I've seen some people say that Elon Musk is like a shill or whatever. And I, I do think that it is a an interesting conversation to be had around anytime. There is somebody, but I also think it's like to the conditioning of, of where we're at as a society where we just can't trust anybody, even when they're willing to spend $41 billion in the pursuit of the freedom of speech and truth. I think that's a fair buy-in of your trust. Like if he's willing to spend a fair amount of, of the entire world's forge. And ensuring that you have the right to talk shit on Twitter, about everything that you want to. I think that's a fair buy-in of my trust. To me, I, I don't have very many suspicions of Elon Musk. I think that he's shown fairly clearly that he has at least in most cases, the general populations best interest in mind, maybe not when it comes to neuro link or putting microchips in people's brains. If we were going to have somebody who does it, I would rather it be him than bill gates. So there's that. So I hope that this goes through. I really do. And, and, and if not, it's going to be a really sad day for the freedom of speech and another, another blocking of, of, of the ability for us to speak out. And if you recall what happened with parlor, right? I think that we need to revisit that we need to look back on what our oppressors did to us. Just a year or two, two years ago, year and a half ago now where they completely de platformed parlor at every stage, along the way from. The de platforming of them not allowing the, basically Amazon, their servers even pulled away from them. The app store made it so you couldn't get on there after a certain amount of time after a certain amount of users signed on, because they were so afraid of what was going to come, if you were able to speak out against their hypocrisy and, and, and their deceitful ways. Right. So it's, it's, we're seeing it again, right. Twitter and the powers that be BlackRock, Vanguard, whoever it is. I think it's, I think it's Vanguard maybe BlackRock that owns or owns a very large percentage of Twitter that just bought more shares in order to be the primary stakeholder. I don't know if that's led to a bid war of any type recently with the Elon Musk. But we have seen that LMS said that he would be coming out with a counter response to what is going on here within like 10 days Time will tell, we'll see, is Elon Musk going to be able to take over Twitter? I hope so now I'm not a big Twitter. I don't even have a Twitter. I, if Elon Musk gets on there and owns it, I think I would just have to, because you kind of have to support that. I, I'm not a huge fan of like the short form, text content. Just think it's boring and I like shooting videos and maybe I'll find a use case for that on Twitter. But as of right now, I do not have a Twitter, but if Elon Musk owns Twitter, I'm definitely going to go get on Twitter. I think it's just, just to show my support there. So I, I really do hope that Elon Musk is able to take over Twitter. I think that it would be not only a good day for democracy, but also it would check the check. Those who believe they're so protected in their positions. The ministry of truth like the 1984 or Wesleyan belief system that they have their best, your best interest in mind. And you're too stupid to think for yourself. And there's no way, freedom of speech of all these heathens out there who disagree with me on these topics should be able to actually express their opinions, right? Like the, the Justin Trudeau there's a small fringe minority who has opposing opinions and they are expressing them. Uh they're they're so scared. Right? And, and again, as I said, last, last time, it just shows you how weak their arguments are and how, how S how weak they are and how scared they are of just words. Right? And, and they're scared of you having a platform to talk about them truthfully and not be able to silence you as a result. And so it will be a great day if that follows through. And now, now here's one that I think. It is going to be a, an interesting side of it. So it's like the w the other reason that Twitter wants this platform is because then they can point the laser pointer, right? Like, if it's like the we went from the, the, I got jabbed Facebook overlay on your picture to the Ukrainian flag next to it. Like when, when Instagram or Twitter or whoever it is just points a laser pointer at the next woke idea that the, the, the liberal infestation, licks their their, their paws, and then just scurries after the next thing that they can identify with and feel like they're better than everybody else. And so it's not just silencing opinions. It's, it's directing a thought from their party and eliminating thoughts from your. And assuming that you're on the side of not the side of the woke mob of Twitter, or maybe you are. And if you're listening to this kudos to you for listening to an alternate opinion than what you normally would. But I highly doubt it, but if you are thanks, I appreciate it. I'm always happy to have, here are the other side of things and we would always be open for a conversation. But anyways, I, I do think it's important and I do think it's important that not only do we allow the human, the human brain, the human organism as a whole to, I, I just think that when, when left be the human organism, the human mind, the human hive generally moves towards goodness, right? There is a small fringe minority, and those that small fringe minority is the ones that are directing our consciousness towards these negative environments and these negative conversations and these terrible things for our children and, and these the, the, the, it, it, it just, there's, there's a small group that. Trying to effect effectively taint the water of human consciousness. And, and they're so scared of you taking away their ability to do that and into allow the human hive mind to, to point it's, it's almost like a religious conversation. I had somebody comment that because I asked a question I posed it in one of my, the last episode, which is like, what, what is that right? Like what, what is the human need for truth, right? What, what is inside of us that makes us want to, to speak out when we hear things that are being said that are not true, that we see these deceitful individuals in positions of power, trying to control the masses. What is that drive like? It has to, it's not a PR, it's not an animalistic drive, right? It's not, there's not monkeys who are like shouting from the mountaintops that the other monkeys are lying to the masses. Like it's, it's a consciousness, it's a second layer, it's a prefrontal cortex issue. And we, we have to explore it from the sense that There, there is humans when left to themselves are generally good, but when directed by, by those who are, who are insistent upon tainting the water. And, and that's an interesting analogy to you is with what we're going to watch here in a few minutes with the watch the water documentary. But it w when you take away their ability to taint the water, they're so afraid of that human hive mind going towards goodness, right? Going towards positivity and, and, and realizing that we're all just literally a sliver of the same divinity, like to take the words of Marcus a really us, like we are all cut from the same cloth. We are there, there's so many different analogies that you can use, but we are all that same sliver of divinity. And we have just been thrust into different bodies and then different family situations and in different households with different parents and different upbringings. And, and, but, but at the end of the day, we are the same. Right. We are the same. We are human. We are, we are a part of this individualistic, like a perception of a greater high of mind of consciousness. And if you look at life from that perspective, you start to view the people who are on the other side is just like you, right? Like, like, yeah. The way that I view, like when people are so like involved in the mask stuff and so involved in, like everybody should get vaccinate. It's like they are the victims more than you were. I, they were, they've been taken advantage of, they are. They're the ones who are naive enough to believe these these lines. And so you shouldn't demonize the individual. They are just you in a different position, but they're just more agreeable potentially, or they're just more naive or they're just more willing to be manipulated by these people. Or they gave them more credit than they should have. And now they've been deceived into a point where they believe they have your best interest in mind. And that's maybe not everybody, there's definitely some assholes who were out there just being decks because they think they're better than everybody. But even those people, like there's a reason that they're there in that position, acting like that. And it's generally not because they want to do what the, the, the the, a ruling. Class is hoping for, which is push us towards totalitarianism and giving them more power. They're just trying to go through life and, and just so happened to be thrust into the river of propaganda that eventually led them to believe that you were killing people with your breath. It's like, how paranoid do you have to believe it, to be it to believe that that's a reality. Right. And in a high too, like at the beginning of the pandemic, right? Let's, let's take it. The backstop, like the beginning of the pandemic. I literally wanted my wife to go to the grocery store with gloves on, like I was taking this seriously. I wasn't just like laughing at this stuff frivolously and. Giving it no merit, what, before we knew what we knew before we knew the PCR tests were being manipulated before we knew that the, the numbers are being inflated with comorbidities before we knew that they were throwing people with COVID into nursing facilities in hopes of leading to a higher death rate. Before we knew CNN came out with the bar on the side of it and admitted the literally the only reason they had the death count up on the CNN newscast was to instill fear in you because it drove more views. How gross, how disgusting. Right before all of that, before we knew those things, I was scared to. And if you were following what was going on, you probably should have been also like if you, I remember watching like world counter.org or something like that. And it just, it had its own death count. And I remember watching it before CNN and before everybody else really jumped onto it before it was this like big mass hysteria. I remember following it pretty closely and pretty seriously. And to a point where, when it was at its peak, you know, to where we, none of this information came out, I was scared for my family and, and, and would have went to seemingly to somebody else, irrational lengths to ensure that my family was safe from these things. And so it, I could have very well been in that position too. And, and so to realize that it's not the individuals that are on the other side, it's not the general population and it's not the civilians that are out there. It's not the, it's the it's those who are working the proverbial Puppet whatever. I wonder if there's a word for that. It's probably a good analogy to know that the thing you hold when you have a puppet, right? The puppet masters, right. We know that those are the people who have ill intentions. Those are the people that we should be concerned about. Those are the people, the masses should be talking about that the same people who stifled the antiwar movement in the seventies, because it's a machine it's because it's all about money. And so when you realize that you should not be looking at the, your neighbor with a Ukraine flag, which was pretty stupid, right? To be honest, although I wonder how crazy it would be. If I put up a Russia flag, can you imagine how quickly your house would get AGD? If you had a Russia flag up? I kind of do want to do that low. Like literally just go in the middle of a city and have a sign that goes Russian lives matter and like, see how many people get mad and yell at you without any reasoning as to why. It would be, it would be an interesting interview and conversation to, to get into with some people, because I think you get very many people who are mad at you, none of which actually have a legitimate reason as to why. And of course, Russian lives do matter. Right? You want to use that slogan. They do. Right. And so it would, it would cause mass hysteria though, if you had a Russia flag on your house or you, you went to the middle of the town square with a Russian lives matter poster it would be a really interesting thought experiment to see people's reactions. Anyways so, the point of all that is that. Don't don't demonize the individual, right? Realize that that individual could just have very well been you and they just haven't had the same access to information or the same personality that you had to drive your search for the truth and took everything the oppressor told them at face value without questioning it or without really following up on it. And now there are some assholes for sure. There's absolutely some assholes who think that they're better than you, who generally put their I'm vaccinated flex picture on Facebook or whatever it is. But there's definitely some assholes out there, but majority of people who are on the other side of you just want to keep safe and, and, and just are following the information of the individuals that they believe are worthy of them following. And didn't have the. Mind to second, guess them and to question them and to look up the information that opposes them and to ask the right questions and look for the right information that may lead to you, finding out what the real truth is. I think that a lot of people just go straight to demonizing somebody and you shouldn't do that. You should, you should always be open to having a conversation. You should always be willing to look at the other side and put your hand across the fence and shake a hand and maybe ask them a little bit why, because that's the only way that we get to a point where things are positive again. And obviously we've seen that the point of all of this from their perspective is the diverse or the divisiveness that has come from these last few years. That is the point. That is the goal of all of this is divisiveness and at least a portion of it. And if he realized that we're literally giving them what they want by demonizing people. So, quick. Without question or without without putting yourself in a position to actually engage in a real conversation with that person that may turn out to be very positive and makes you question your, your narrative too, because you should be open and willing to change your opinions too. Right? If you, if you would expect that of somebody else, you should be on the same, the same side of that to, to allow that for yourself too. So on the backs of that, here is a video where we will watch about this talking about people, posting their vaccine on Facebook flexing with their bandaid, from the, the McDonald's they went to, to get injected with an experimental drug. Here is an individual from Canada who I believe it's from Canada, who said that there was an overall 40% increase in death rates in people from the ages of 19 to 40, specifically in the last year. And that is. Very terrifying statistic, and one that we can't fake because they had to make life insurance payout. So the, accurate, the information on this is completely accurate and can not be fudged and, and, and will not allow the mainstream narrative to position them the position, the, the information in a way to where it's not showing the truth, because these companies are being costs millions of dollars, millions, and millions of hundreds, of millions, of dollars on the backs of these deaths of these young and healthy individuals who have died over the last several years. So they have the data and this is what the data says. No one is saying with any certainty, Jason, what is causing this, but we certainly would be remiss as scientists. If we didn't look at that and say, there is something going on, what happened in 2021 that was so different from the previous five-year average, that would cause this massive increase in certain medical conditions. So the, the, the, the source of the information is several us life insurance companies that have been reporting this correct. And these three career physicians. Yes, there are separate groups of data. Jason, the previous study from the U S life insurance companies. Many of them were reporting a 40% increase in deaths from all causes in the 18 to 49 year old group. They know that because these are life insurance companies that provide group life insurance policies to employers. So these are working age individuals with a 40% increase in all costs. That was a different report from this bombshell that came out last week from, as I said, three career military physicians and the question is what, what has changed in calendar year 2021 that is causing number one, an increase in all cause deaths as reported by the life insurance companies and an increase in certain medical conditions, such as heart attacks, what clots to the lungs congenital malformations of children born that year, female infertility and those sorts of things. Did these three career military physicians offer any type of speculate? They did not. And they, but they did not do this anonymously. They signed an affidavit on this. I have not seen the raw data. I'm not a military physician. I don't have access to that database, but I don't have any reason to believe at this juncture that the data is in question. These are again, based on ICD codes and it should, I should make it clear because it's very easy to make statistics of these sorts. Deceptive. So what I say that there's a 300% increase, for example, in cancers is what they found. This wasn't an increase from one case to four cases. In the case of cancer, for example, it was an increase from an average, a five-year average of 38,000 cases per year to almost 120,000 cases in calendar year 2021. And. Wow. So that's, that's pretty crazy and pretty alarming too, is, is the idea that, that it's not just a small margin, right? It's not, like she said, it's not one person dying from cancer going to a hundred people dying or even 50 or 30 or 10 it's, 38,000 or whatever. The number was going to a hundred thousand, like, oh, crazy, unbelievable. Drastic difference in the last year for cancer deaths of the age of 19 to 40, like how, what are the odds of that? Right? What are the odds of that? And what changed since 2020 that made it like, what is a medical large medical big rollout push of the medical industrial complex that has come out and basically invited every single person, not even just invited, manipulated and, and pressured and bullied. Young healthy individuals to get a vaccine that they didn't need to get a experimental MRI and a drug put into their body that we know none of the effects of what would absolutely. That's a causation they're like, I guess you can't exactly say causation until it's proven, but is a very, very interesting correlation that F F like 40% overall deaths, 19 to 40. And when you think about the most deaths from 19 to 40, like, I wonder what the actual statistics are on that. Like, what is the average what are the most common deaths for younger individuals, like most common reasons for death in, in 19 to 40 years old? I think it would be interesting to see, and I bet you they're pretty closely associated with car accidents or drug overdoses or suicide or things like that. Like, especially in 19 to 40, that's a generally speaking, a very healthy individual with no medical issues, right? No, no ongoing issues at all, for them like statistically speaking in that age bracket commonly, and you have a 40% overall increase in death, that's terrifying, terrifying. And, and, and how can anybody try to diminish that? And, and they all. Right. The that there's going to be a big push for these life insurance companies to keep their mouth shut. And I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payout to these life insurance companies, where the government has to come to them. And behind the closed doors say that we know you had to pay hundreds because the, the life insurance industry is 100%. The one that will take the brunt of these large scale deaths of young, healthy individuals, because they didn't take into consideration when they were doing their underwriting. The fact that everybody was going to get bullied into taking an experimental drug that we knew, none of the side effects, I'm surprised the life insurance companies weren't shouting from the rooftops in, in, in funding, anti campaigns over this stuff, because they are the ones who are going to have to monetarily deal with the outcome of, of this pandemic. From the perspective of. Of the vaccinations and the 40% increase in overall deaths of 19 to 40 year olds. Right. They are the ones who are going to have to deal with this. I I'm surprised they haven't spoken out before this and, and, and made people second guess whether or not they may want to put, put these things in their bodies. Right. And so I don't know how anybody is willing to, to take to, like, they're still pushing this, right? Like, I think they've kind of accepted now that if you're not getting, or you haven't gotten it to this point that you're probably not going to get it. Like if McDonald's free burgers and a a hundred dollar gift card to. I don't know burger king didn't do it for you. I guess nothing will cause they've really given up on the vaccine push. I haven't been told to get a vaccine from the radio in at least a few weeks. But, but it has to make you wonder why, why, why are these individuals at such a young, healthy age dying at such high alarming rates and why is nobody sounding the alarm on this? Like, I, I really have to go back and I want to look at these statistics for myself and see, because that just seems so terrifying. If there was like, if there is a pandemic, it's the 40% of whatever is causing 40% more people to die in the ages of 19 to 40. And there is one, right. There is a reason for this. And now we're seeing the result of that being from not the like if you didn't know this, John McAfee, the antivirus guy that was mysteriously died in the last two years in his apartment in Miami He basically admitted to the fact that it, the beginning of the computer age, they would basically make viruses and then come out with the antivirus software. So they would infect a bunch of people's computers because they were a bunch of nerds in garages and they would infect your computer and they would have ransomware and viruses and all of this crazy stuff. And then they would come up with a solution and then they'd charge you for it. Right. And then, and so they could exactly target the people that they knew had it, it was like this crazy money making scheme that he made billions off of. And John McAfee's are crazy. Do it. He's like really interesting conversations. He did a a podcast I believe with gosh, who was it? It wasn't Joe Rogan. Was it? John McAfee podcast. I'm sure you'll find it. If you, if you look it on your end too, but he, he did a big podcast and talked about his crazy. Crazy life. There's a documentary called gringo the dangerous life of John McAfee. But I am fairly positive. He did a very big podcast. I, I don't know if it was Joe Rogan, but but it was something like that where he spoke out on. Yeah, he did the episode two 90 John McAfee on Joe Rogan. And that sounds Spotify right now. And, and it allows John McAfee just to go into some crazy detail on some of these things in his life. And you hear that he's like a, he's just a wild dude, but he would basically create these viruses and then profit off of coming out with a solution. Right. And, and so, now. You see the effects of that. And we see that, that what is actually going to come of that. And we're seeing that very quickly. If we're seeing a 40% increase in deaths in ages of 19 to 40 now, what are we going to be seeing in 10 years from now? What is the percentage uptick going to be in, in 20 years from now in 50 years from now, when these individuals who are 19 25, 30 today are in their seventies and eighties, and they've had this, whatever it is, and something gets snake venom as a little, a teaser for the wa watch the water here. But some, some people think it's some crazy stuff. And, and, and what are the effects of that going to be longterm, right? Where, where are the statistics going to go from here if it's already at 40%? And that is super, extremely alarming. I know I have had experiences with more people in my life suffering from heart conditions than I've ever seen. And so it's, it's very concerning. So the next thing that I'm going to pull up for you here is going to be. The Netflix situation. So Netflix stock plunged 37%. And it's open and it's open today as it heads for its biggest drop in a decade. So Netflix stock plunged 37% on open as it has for the biggest drop in a decade. Now it also goes on to say that the streaming giant is set to lose 50 billion, billion dollars in value after shutting 200,000 subscribers in the first quarter, as viewers complain, there's nothing to watch at least nothing that doesn't have to do with grooming your children or but what we'll, we'll talk about that in a minute here. So it goes on to talk about their reasons of what they believe it is the reasoning behind all of this. And so a lot of people have attributed this to the woke agenda of Netflix and even one of those individuals was Elon Musk himself. Iron man, I think we should normalize calling Elon Musk Ironman. He's the Tony stark of the modern era era. So Elon Musk tweet it on April 20th at 3:10 AM. Wow. What a G the woke mind virus is making Netflix and watchable. There's literally a show about a man. Believing he can get pregnant and some girl behind him holding his beer belly. If you think that's the type of content that the general public wants to see is the same shit that you're pushing in Silicon valley to your employees, that they eat up because you have bananas in the, in the break room and a knapsack in the, in the back office for them to sleep in. And you're this cool woke place. Like if you think that's what the general population is, your dad wrong, and you will see that when 30% of your stock drops after pushing woke agendas and pregnant men and small children twerking in, in acuities and all of this bullshit on top of just having shitty content like Netflix, hasn't had bangers in like a while. The only thing that's worth watching on Netflix is Ozark. And besides that, which comes out next week, if you're watching this in real time, which is a great show they just have garbage content. I literally can't think of three or five shows that I would watch on Netflix right now. I see literally, no reason why anybody should have a Netflix subscription unless they're watching a single show and then dropping the subscription. Somebody who responded to that Prenay pat hall, who said woke mind. Virus is the biggest threat to the civilization. While I said civilization, where to the civilization and Elon Musk said, yes, somebody else said, which is niche gamer said not just Netflix movies in general, video games, TV, it's all infested with current year trend woke garbage for fear, offending a green haired freak next to the band button, nothing original anymore at all. Except the media coming out of places like Japan or Korea ironically. Hmm. That's interesting. And the Lama said true. This shows the he's expecting video. So a new Netflix show says he's expecting to a man who becomes pregnant with some viewers turns. Edit at it's woke programming. Yeah. That's not how that works, buddy. And like, there's literally, like, I've seen people Google this, I guess we should Google this too. Like, can men, men straight, like who can man straight, let's see what Google has to say about that. This is literally a thing. It says having a period, this is the first thing that comes up on Google. When you search who can menstruate having a period is not a feminine thing. And people of all genders, men straight, including non binary, people, age, gender people, and even plenty of men menstruation doesn't change anything about your gender. It's just something that bodies do. Excuse me. Where am I as a man going to men straight from? Because if it's my ass, that's disgusting. And if it's my the thing on the front of me, Madame. And it's bleeding and just a bunch of men are walking around with their dicks bleeding. I think that we would have people literally going into a panic. No men can not menstruate, not one bit. We don't have a uterus that's shedding its lining. We do not believe from our penis or our butts for that matter. It is not a thing. You can not hold a child because you did not have a uterus. You did not have eggs to fertilize and you can not menstruate because your uterus that you don't have is not shedding its lining, sorry. No Google, no trans hub.org. Menstruating is not something that bodies do. It is something that happens to females because they're a female because of their chromosomes, because they're able to bear children, which this man from this Netflix show is not able to do. Sorry to tell you. So I am so could not be more happy to see that Netflix is stock is dropping as a result of this. I could not be more happy to see that Disney is taking the brunt of this woke agenda too. And I think they're next up on the list. I really do think that Disney is going to be the next person who has to deal with the the wokeness that they have turned their business into and the results that are going to come from that. So now the next thing we're going to look at is going to be the what's in the water documentary. I do think that this is a very I think that this is a very important conversation to have. I do think that there's some questions that I have to, and I, I do believe that there's some interesting information in here and there's some very compelling. And I, and I'm not going to discount it, but I also have some questions and I also have some concerns. So if you've watched wash the water, we're just going to watch a couple of minutes of the intro and then we're going to discuss it. If you have not watched it, you should go watch it right now. You can go to rumble and just type in, watch the water, which I'm doing at the moment, and you can pull it right up and watch it. It's, it's, it's quite unbelievable to me that this is I mean, there's enough people watching it to where it is circulating, but it's not a mainstream conversation and there's enough evidence and enough things that are brought up here that are very interesting and very compelling. And if you watch it if you're somebody who is very Very mindful of the information that you watch. It's it's, if nothing else, it's very entertaining and it's approach. So I would recommend just giving it a shot and if nothing else, it's a 45 minutes of your time and you may learn something and maybe you have some good entertainment as a result. So let's go ahead and I will pull up this right now and we will watch this together, at least the first couple of minutes of it, and then we will discuss it. Cause I think there's a really interesting conversation to be had surrounding this. So here we go we're good to go. So earlier this month, a lot of you may remember a post that I made on my telegram channel. There was a lot of concern about the water and not to drink it. And there were certain things that I could say and could not. And I referenced that certain people's lives might be at risk. And one of those people is here with me now, Dr. Brian artists. Thanks a lot for being here. I do really appreciate the opportunity to do this. Yeah. This is actually going to be the only time I've ever been nervous in any interview. I'm not kidding. Like I've never been nervous to discuss anything in relationship to the COVID pandemic whatsoever, but this has bothered me and it scared me putting things out is probably oftentimes the best way to protect yourself. But people have lost their lives over what you're about to tell the, I have to get this off my chest, my spirits, like screaming to say something and bring it to the forefront to protect as many innocent lives as possible. That's all I've been trying to do since may of 2020. As when I read Anthony  memo on room desk severe, when I actually just hyperlinked clicked the links to the studies that he was quoting, saying that room Desiree were safe and effective. I knew right away that he was lying. I knew right away that this drug was going to be used to mass murder, a whole bunch of innocent people in America that did not need to die. Then he was going to sell the world on the idea in the media that they were dying of a virus. When in fact I knew they were being poisoned to death with this drug, I knew 30% of all people were going to experience multiple organ failure, kidney failure, septic shock, and hypotension. That's what the study said. Now we're a year and a half after that. And it's exactly the numbers that I said based on those studies, I'm pretty much called the room desk of your guy, but where I go, which is odd for a retired chiropractor to be referenced as a pharmaceutical guy. But it is true.  is a very toxic, deadly drug. There are a lot of medical doctors and professionals who will mention it that as it's just proven to be ineffective. It is not ineffective. It is very toxic and deadly. It is known and proven to actually injure specific organs in your body. It targets specific organs. This is a part of why I think my spirit is so moved to make sure this gets out. Is that a in January, January 21st of this year. So it's just two months ago, the FDA decided to authorize. Rim death severe as the only drug to be authorized to be used in all newborns in this country. I can't, I cannot even fathom the men or women in charge that would actually do that. So it's now been moved since January 21st, 2022. It's been moved out of hospitals as the only drug to be used only allowed in hospitals, this entire pandemic. Now they're moving it into, in and out of hospital care for children. As young as newborn seven pounds heavy through the 18 year pediatric age range, it's the only authorized drug. There is nothing else that they're allowing for COVID-19 treatment. And I find that incredibly evil. And then they've also now canceled monoclonal antibody uses throughout the United States and all us territories for COVID-19 early treatment. And they're moving room desperate. Infusion centers, where they were using monoclonal antibodies as the only IB infusion drug allowed. I've been moved with one singular purpose since may of 2020. When I read Anthony Fowchee memo about rim death, severe, I felt this spark inside of me that I now had to go voice to the world, a warning to try to protect as many innocent lives as possible from being killed. So let's talk about what happened. It all started with a text. There's a medical doctor that I admire and love because he is nonstop from the beginning of COVID has had the ability to project information and say to people around the world, you do not have to fear COVID we have an answer. This guy has been on many stages with me. He's still practicing. So one thing that I think he said there that is a compelling as the conversation around REM does severe. So REM does severe was the one that they've actually pushed and allowed in the hospitals. And there's a big push from this conversation where he believes that REM does a, is being utilized to actually do the deed at the end of the COVID situations where people are dying. And then it's the kind of the final situation of what what's been. And then, so where, where we go deeper into this conversation with what's in the water, as he actually discusses what he believes is water treatment plants that are being utilized to disseminate. I believe the virus where he actually talks about the fact that he believes that within these water treatment facilities, they are tainting the water with what he believes based on the information. So this is where it gets a little crazy is where he talks about everybody talks about the woo woo Han bat situation. And if at the very beginning. You mentioned anything about the bats you get hit with a big a big misinformation sticker on there. And, and, and now the only one where you get a misinformation stickers, if you actually Google anything or post anything about snit, And COVID, and he ties a bunch of data into the idea that it is not a virus. It is not viral in nature. It is a venom and the snake venom was disseminated through the water and finished off through the REM desert veer, which was also included the snake venom of a king Cobra and of a crate, I believe is the other poisonous snake that he gets into. And so it turns out to be a crazy, crazy connecting of dots. And we'll watch a few more minutes of this year and, and discuss a little bit more about it, but I, I recommend watching the entire thing. So I do think that's very important to do let me go ahead and take a look and see if we can find some compelling parts of this conversation, surround the water and surrounding REM desert veer and the snake by them. Cause I, I think it's an important conversation to have let's, let's see if we can find the here, give me let's let's watch it again. Gilly ad bought two facilities that deal with biological studies from Genentech in 2011, and then brought 55 of their executives into Gilliad in 2011. Just when that king Cobra study started, Gil yet is the manufacturer of room. Deciview guess what's been known since 2005 below. The nicotine receptors in the brainstem being injured by Cobra venom in Viper venom. Guess what drug does that or hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine rim death, severe packaged and stored as it is delivered to hospitals comes in a little glass file. It's called lyophilized powder. It actually has a white tee yellowish tint. Guess what colors snake venom has when it's stored then to be diluted in sodium chloride or distilled water to be administered IV, or if people are buying king Cobra venom lyophilized they mix it in the same preparation as listed on the fact sheet for rim DESA, severe to actually take Cobra venom or any other Viper venom and injected into horses to make monoclonal and. When you read the emergency use authorization for him to severe, it states this one from January 21st, that every practitioner who administered this to a COVID patient pediatric or not, you have to evaluate for what's called prothrombin time. Prothrombin time means if it increases the prothrombin time, it means it's taking your blood's ability to cooperate in making it longer. So it thins your blood, you can't clot, right? You will internally bleed to death with rim death, severe. It is stated on the emergency salvation. Every patient has to have its prothrombin time checked before you give it rim severe. And during treatment, do you know what do you know what king Cobra venom does to the blood? It makes it so that it can't clot. It makes it so it can't clock. One of the evidences is it's prothrombin time. And if you look at the CDC website and then H is website. Adverse events from deciview called Beckley. It actually lists, it actually says it increases prothrombin time, which is exactly what king Cobra venom does to the human body and rim desk. Severe is lyophilized peptides, proteins of king Cobra venom. The university of Arizona published last summer, the paper, when they actually evaluated the blood samples and tissues of people who died, hundreds of them from two different hospitals after being treated for COVID, which means they got what drug rim deciview when they evaluated their blood. The title of their published article is welcome back. Why do some people seemingly perfectly. Die from COVID and others. Don't it's a question. Baffling experts during this pandemic, that's sure is a new research from the university of Arizona suggests we're closer to getting an answer as team 12, just winners explains. It seems to boil down to an enzyme. That's also found in rattlesnake venom. What does this rattlesnake have to do with COVID-19 depths? Shh. We turned much of my research in my lab towards COVID a year and a half ago. Chilton says he got blood samples from more than a hundred patients in a New York ICU. They

Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith continue their discussion about the many projects that Jay has been involved in including the location of Mecca, the Aramaic origins of the Quran, the Zam Zam well, and what happened  between the years 622-749 AD of Islamic history.  Al encourages his listeners to support both his and Jay's channels through Patrion.  Jay emphasizes that he only accepts support from Christians, and goes on to say he is a third generation faith missionary.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi reflects on last year's accomplishments. Reaching a one hundred thousand subscribers is a great milestone.  He thanks everybody that is part of that including speakers and teachers from David wood, Jay Smith, brother Mel to Dan Gibson. Also all the moderators, tech people ,prayer worriers and financial supporters.  He talks about the Arabic videos ,the Arabic u-tube channels and the three Facebook pages.  He asks people to continue supporting the ministry through Patrion through the new year. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Canadian Truckers For Freedom, Kid Stories, and all kinds of fun stuff! Check us out!www.thetruckindad.com

Community Support and Building In this episode, I speak with Mike Porter, my comic book store guy about how community impacts artists and the need to build a community around yourself. Although Mike didn't think of himself as an artist, I thought it was important to have him speak about the impact of community on his business and practice as a shop owner and burgeoning writer. Hello friend, this is Timothy Kimo Brien your head instigator at Create Art Podcast where I bring my 20 years in art and education to help you tame your inner critic and create more than you consume. In 2022 I am rebroadcasting my former podcast KDOI Podcast here so you can catch up on what we have been doing for the past 4 years. KDOI Podcast was my first serious attempt at podcasting after spending many years just creating content without regard to the final product. KDOI started in 2016 and had 3 seasons until I closed it down in 2019. I wanted to make sure that these gems didn't get relegated to my external hard drives, so here you go, there will be interviews, commentary, and projects that you can do for yourself. Enjoy these rebroadcasts and Create More Than You Consume. This episode is about the novel, so enjoy. Topics Discussed   Definition of Community : a unified body of individuals, the people with common interests living in a particular area. A group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society, a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered throughout a larger society, a body of persons or nations having a common history or a common social economic and political interests. A group linked by a common policy, joint ownership, or participation social activity, Quote from Gothe on Community : The world is so empty. If one thinks only of mountains, rivers, and cities, but to know someone who thinks feels with us and who through distance and who though distance is close to us in spirit, this makes the earth for us and in the inhabited. Quote From Fred Rogers on community : Reaching Out To reach out to me, email timothy@createartpodcast.com I would love to hear about your journey and what you are working on. If you would like to be on the show or have me discuss a topic that is giving you trouble write in and let's start that conversation. Email: timothy@createartpodcast.com YouTube Channel: Create Art Podcast YT Channel IG: @createartpodcast Twitter: @createartpod   Transcripts of the show KDOI Rebroadcast Conversations On Community with Mike Porter Tim: Create art podcast. KDOI rebroadcast conversations on community with like Porter. Hello friends. This is Timothy Kimo. Brian, your head instigator for create art podcast where I use my twenty years. Plus. From my experiences in the arts and education world to help you tame your inner critic and create more than you consume. Now, a few years ago, I used to run a podcast called K D O I podcasts, which stood for Kimo's den of iniquity. I closed down that podcast and started up create art podcast because I felt. That is a better way to communicate to you what this podcast is about. So in 2022, I'll be rebroadcasting season three of Katie or podcasting. Now for this episode, I'll be talking with Mike Porter and we're going to be discussing community. And in each of these episodes, I start off with the definition of community and then two quotes. And then I talked to my guest to see what their opinion is on that topic. So I hope you enjoy. Welcome back friends. Welcome to KDOI podcasting Kimo's den of iniquity, where we create more than we consume. I am your head instigator, Timothy Kimo, Brian, many times creating art is done in an imposed isolation or away from our audience. When we do that, we can often feel like we're the only person doing the art we are doing. And we may never find our intended audience. It's important to find our community, to learn, to challenge and to inspire our creativity. I never went to conferences while in college, but since I left academia, I've gone to three conferences in two years about podcasting. Now, each time. The other weirdos that do what I do. I have a sense of family that I'm not the only crazy one out there doing this. It makes me want to push through blockages and create more. Now let's listen to what Merriam Webster says, a unified body of individuals, the people with common interests living in a particular area. A group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society, a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered throughout a larger society, a body of persons or nations having a common history or a common social economic and political interests. A group linked by a common policy, joint ownership, or participation social activity, our quotes come from Goethe or girthy. However, you'd like to pronounce his name. The world is so empty. If one thinks only of mountains, rivers, and cities, but to know someone who thinks feels with us and who through distance and who though distance is close to us in spirit, this makes the earth for us and in the inhabited. We also have Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers, to the most of us, we live in a world in which we need to share responsibility. It is easy to say it's not my child at my community, not my world, not my problem. Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people. My heroes Guthy was a German writer in state. Is works, include four novels, epic and lyric poetry, prose, verse dramas, memoirs, autobiography, literary, and aesthetic criticism, and true to seize on botany and anatomy and color. Fred Rogers, otherwise known as Mr. Rogers was an American television personality, musician, puppeteer writer, producer, and I didn't know this Presbyterian minister. Dictionary definition was very long-winded. But what really spoke to me was body of persons of common and a specifically professional interests scattered throughout through a larger society. You know, we have shared interest in our exploration in inter interpretation of art. Yes, we are all over the world and we can always find a kindred soul that. For me, you can't go wrong with Fred Rogers. We do have a shared responsibility and isn't it great to know that we can help each other out. In fact, many artists I know are only too happy to help other artists out with supplies or a space to express themselves. Just like I'm doing here today. So let's get this conversation started. Mike Porter: making off of your art. Do you consider yourself a professional artist? Tim: All right, so it's $400. $400 a year. Is it 400 American or 400 Canadian or 400 Australian? It's $400 American Mike Porter: wise, unless you're a dual citizen and you're living in Australia, in which case it's whatever their tax codes is. Tim: Well, why does it have to be 400 Mike Porter: American? Because that is the amount Tim: that, but who determines that it has to be American, who is the determining factor who was saying that it has to be 400. Who says that the government they get, what, which government, the American government, why is Mike Porter: there an American government? There is definitely an off and on occasionally, Tim: every four years might be an American government. We get an extra day. If we want to be open. I like being open. I'm all about giving and being open Mike Porter: and honest. Tim: Oh no, I don't know. I didn't say that. No, Mike Porter: no, no, no. So open and dishonest, ask me anything. I'll tell you anything. Not necessarily the truth openly Tim: dishonest is a beautiful thing. Openly dishonest. That's that's the way I like to be. That's that's what I'm going to run my platform on that you are going to be the head Mike Porter: off, right? Except that can't be because I'm a Canadian citizen. Tim: That's. That's okay. We're going to run you for president. I'll be your vice president. And when you are elected, then you can just kind of go. I Mike Porter: don't, I don't even think I Tim: can run. Sure. You care. Anybody can run. No, Mike Porter: I think you have to be with the 35 years old and an American citizen Tim: technicalities, or you can run, you just can't win. Mike Porter: I don't think that's true. I think this is one of those openly dishonest. It sounds good. Tim: And folks, you have tuned into another episode of K D O I podcast, where we create more than we consume. And as you know, I'm Timothy Kimo. Brian and I have with me here are wonderful merchants of mercy, our purveyor of books of glean and happiness. Mr. Mike Porter with now is little fish, still an official thing, or is it not Mike Porter: a little fish? Comics died? Sasha's dead. I do have a secret nerd Panda, which is up and running. It is doing okay. But you can find me in person at Sage manages game evening, Tim: which we just came from this very afternoon before we recorded this podcast. And it was a very mirthful place. It, it, there's a lot of happiness in that place Mike Porter: For the people coming in. Yes. For the employees, not so much. Tim: See folks. That's why, when you go into these places, you need to provide either mirth or leave the employees. Don't feed the employees, help Mike Porter: feed Tim: what kind of food. Provide you with a sustainable amount of happiness for about two hours. Mike Porter: We do have a one customer who is a professional chef and he brings me pastries, apple pastries all the time. And I appreciate him very much. Tim: You know, so folks pastries, if you go into Sage manners, pastries is the way to go. Mike Porter: Now I am Canadian. So a. Donuts. They're an official food group in Canada. Oh, I did Tim: not know that I'm shocked being parked Canadian myself. I was not aware of that. Now. It doesn't have to be a certain type of donut. Mike Porter: Now us personally, I personally prefer jelly donuts, but jellies are great. Tim: What type of deal they needs to be in that donut? It Mike Porter: doesn't matter. It can be, it can be a custard, it can be a jelly. It can be they're all Tim: jellies. So a filling of some sort that is not cream, or it can even be a cream, like a Boston cream, Mike Porter: like a Boston cream is a jelly Tim: donuts. All right, fantastic. So folks, you know, Some donuts stacked. He needs them. He is not happy. He's happy where he's at and he's happy to serve the public and customers, but in order to get them even more happy, which I believe you could be more happy who couldn't be more happy. One of there's a few people that couldn't be more happy. Name one. One of my daughters, I'm sure couldn't be more happy. She could not be more happy. Cause she's my daughter. Oh, how could you be more happy than being. You would not know that you're not know Mike Porter: the answer to that. Tim: I do not have the answer to that, but you don't even a few years you could interview one of my daughters. It doesn't matter either one, they're both interchangeable and you can see, you know, what it takes to be more happy than what they are. Teenagers. Yeah, that's not loud then we'll get it out now. We're not missing. No, no, no, no, no. Don't curse me like that. That's just that's mean that's growing for Canadian kind of shocked and in awe that, I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. That's what we're looking for here today, folks. So how Mike Porter: many apologies will you get out of me? Tim: In this episode? Okay. And we already got one 11 to go 11 to go. Let's see if we can do it. All right. So today's topic that we're going to be discussing today. Here is a community, right? So in the pre-show I've already read the definition of community and given the the two quotes that we're using today, one from Fred Rogers and one from Guthy or Gerta. So SuperNet people pronounce it, correct though. Healthy. My first question, he likes, how do you pronounce his narrative? Mike Porter: It's definitely Gurtis anyone who pronounces it go theme. You get to punch. Tim: Really? It's true. You get the punch that in my philosophy class. Okay. So the reason why he pronounced it, go for it. He is because some people do pronounce it that way before you go ahead and strike me down. Right. But I just, you know, for some of the folks out there, they, they want to pronounce it that way you prefer Gerta and that's. And that's okay. I Mike Porter: appreciate you allowing me to be right. Well, I Tim: like it when you're right, because then that means that I'm right. And you know, couldn't you be more happier if you were more right? I don't think you could be Mike Porter: many things would make me happier pronunciation of people's names. Probably not high on that list. Not high on the Tim: list. Okay. What do you think about the quotes that we had from from Gerta and from Fred Rogers? Okay. So Fred Rogers quote is and I have it right here. If you'd like to take a look at it again. Oh no, no. It is tattooed on your chest. I did see a tattooed on your chest. I don't know why you showing me his chest areas, but he is doing that right now. As we're sitting in this coffee shop for the Mike Porter: folks at home, the, just for the Tim: quote. Mike Porter: Him and talking about how the people that actually are involved in the community or the people that he sees as being heroes, that there are people that walk by or somebody is in trouble. They don't feel invested in that person, right. As, as part of a community and the people that stop and help that person or the people that fed Rogers consider as a hero, Tim: remembering the program. You want to remember this correctly. So you enjoy that E that really spoke to you. Right? My, Mike Porter: my rebuilt, I think that there's a lot of. Sidelines people and more now, I mean, it's weird to give an example when we moved into the neighborhood that we're currently in I went with home-baked goods to the neighbors and introduced myself and he was like, Hey, we're neighbors. We're just moving in. And they looked at me like I was insane. Because he was a stranger coming over and knocking on the door and, and introducing themselves, you only go to people's houses if there's an emergency, not a Tim: fear. Now let me ask you a question on this, because I've known you now for about five years. What color was your hair when you did that? Like the color of my hair was probably brown. It was brown. Okay. So it was a natural color, right. Okay. That's fine. Nevermind. Nevermind. Go ahead. The reason why that's, because I've had purple Mohawks and I can understand if somebody was a little. For clubs, shall we say a little bit alarmed. If I came up with baked goods to their house and said, hi, I'm your neighbor. Right. Mike Porter: But the point I, well, I don't know if this is a 409, but what, I'm, what I'm trying to move, maneuver myself towards. Is that the idea of what is a community it's changed in that? The face-to-face. Sort of interactions with people that, that community I think has drifted apart, but it's sort of been replaced with a digital community now, like the online people, you have the GoFund me's and the. Hey, help me out two pages and people will give money to the people in need and that's fantastic. But if they saw them on the street, wouldn't, wouldn't stop in and help. Wouldn't, you know, they look at the person who's homeless is an inconvenience when they're walking, but that same person will give money to somebody they don't know to have their window fixed or to help them get into college or to. So the idea of community, the what, what is the community has changed in that re in some ways it's a lot broader because we live in this digital world, but at the same time, the interpersonal in-person community is, has suffered, Tim: I think. And I can't Verify the information that I'm going to share with you. So I'm gonna share it with you anyways, right? Because just making this up because that's what we do know. I actually heard it someplace. I, I heard it on NPR and like they're very reliable, more reliable than my shell. I don't know. Okay. But certainly more viewers. Well, just three more viewers, three, just three more, you know, and that's, that's on statistics that I have created, right. And I don't have any viewers. I have listeners, but that's okay. I've got, you know, they've got three more than I do. So, but they were saying with the go fund me accounts that well, over half are dedicated to people's medical bills. So they're like one of the largest insurers in the country. Right. That doesn't surprise me at all. You know? So, you know, w we, we have a tendency to develop the community around us to better ourselves, well, to, you know, for an emerging. If we need it, but in order to enrich and enliven ourselves, we need to have the community around us. Right. Mike Porter: When, when I had little fish comics, at one point, there was. Vandalism incident with involving a what do you call them? Slingshots. And somebody broke the window in Tim: the front. It wasn't me. I know. I'm not saying it was just because I'm from Chicago. The way we don't use slingshots in Chicago, by the way, Mike Porter: that would be an amazing town. If it was a city, if it was Tim: just all slingshots, there would be, Hey, you know what? It'd be a lot nicer place to leave. Zack a lot nicer, fewer rocks, fewer rocks would be new. That's true. But somebody, one of our customers set up a GoFundMe for a little fish comics. Didn't didn't talk to me about it. Just set it up that, that day. And the community of people that were coming to the store donated enough to have the window repaired within 24 hours. Mike Porter: So that was crazy. And that's like, that's a cool way that the digital world can interact with. The actual sort of meat Tim: world, the meat world, as in like cow ham, Limburger cheese. Yep. Physical world, the physical world. Okay. I got you. As opposed to digital well understood digital meat I hear is making a breakthrough. Mike Porter: It's not as filling Tim: it really. Isn't looking at Mike Porter: pictures of cows. Tim: It's just not the same. And it's, you know, it's, it's satisfying yet. Not fulfilling. And I'll give you that, but in a satisfying to look at pictures of cows, I often look at videos of cows myself, but that's what I do, Mike Porter: nothing to say to that, Tim: nor am I looking for you to say anything to that? You know, what more can you say after that? So now Gerta is a thing is the world is empty. If one things only of mountains, rivers, and cities, but to know someone who thinks and feels with us and who through though distant is close to us in spirit, this makes the earth. And inhabited garden. How does that make you feel? Do you have a community now? You know, there's an arts program. We would talk a lot about arts here, obviously. And, and we had our I don't really want to call it a disagreement. We had our miscommunication we define words different. In our last conversation. Okay. Mike Porter: I have to refresh me in, what Tim: were your artists, the term artist, right. You were referring to a professional artist. I was referring to ameture artistry as, as being an artist. So for this, your community, do they provide you an inhabited. Artistically Mike Porter: artistic. Well, here's the thing that I think is kind of interesting about artistic community. I think that up to a certain point, they're incredibly helpful that they, they can inspire you to continue. They can push you to, to create when a community is made up of the same sort of. I'm going to use, let's say podcasting as an example, my impression of having listened to several people, talking about making podcasts and how to make podcasts. Up to the inception point of creating the podcast incredibly helpful and wonderful to each other. Once you actually have that podcast up and running, and it becomes a competitive competition, the community sort of doesn't help as much right now. That they're up and running. Now that you've gotten them creatively going now, you don't want them to have viewers because, or listeners, because you want those listeners for yourself. If they're talking about the same sorts of things, there's a a measure of where the pendulum is going to go and you want it to go towards you rather than towards them. Kind Tim: of like a territorial kind of thing, what you're saying. Right. Mike Porter: I've I've experienced it with writing in the sense of once as when you're a struggling writer. Professional writers will give you a lot of advice. Well, I'll give you a lot of helpful advice. As soon as you are a published author and you're interacting with another published author, it becomes weird because they, they're not talking to you like Like a mentor mentee. Not even at a, as peers, like getting equals you're, you're more guarded because if I have a story idea and I'm trying to flush it out or flesh it out I might not talk to somebody that I know has published a book because I'm worried that they will take that idea and publish it, because I know that they have the ability to do that because they've published before. Whereas somebody who is struggling as a writer, I might be, feel more free to talk about an idea in front of it and workshop an idea because I'm not as concerned that it's going to be stolen. So there's, there's a. Among communities of the same sort of art, art history. There's a guardedness. I think that happens at after a certain point at a certain level that doesn't help. Yeah. And I don't know if there's any way to get past that beyond. Proprietary thinking of that idea as being yours and getting to where I think is a more evolved state of, Hey, here's an idea. And even if they do something with that idea, it doesn't diminish what you're doing with the idea at all. So I think that's the sort of the next level of community is where, where you can get to that point. Openly discussing things without the fear, but generally speaking in, in sort of a consumer capitalist kind of, kind of base where you're chasing that the monetary value of things there's always going to be a guardedness that we're getting in the way of producing a creative idea in a community, in a group because who owns that idea? Tim: Exactly exactly who does own that idea. If a bunch of people developing it, if you workshop an idea, if you bring a short story to. And they toss him, their critiques windows become theirs when he does come. When does it become the communities and see speaking to yours. Right. You know and that, that can be a, a downfall of communities as well. Folks that are in the same disciplines, you know, a group of writers or group of podcasters. Absolutely. I've witnessed that too. You know, you get. You, you, you know what you're saying? That, that certain level of force no longer your amateur doing it for fun, doing it for a hobby it's Ooh. I just, you know with podcasting it's I scored my first advertiser. And then that was that next phase. How do I get my next advertiser on here? How do I get, you know, a beeline beeline B-level celebrities on my show, right. And there's really no way of going about doing it. Three conferences and it's all be pushed on monetization, monetization, monetization, and then they're going to show you how to do that, but you gotta pay a little, you gotta pay, you know, 40 bucks a month, 50 bucks a month for that. Right. And so it's no longer mentor mentee. The business, providing Mike Porter: a service at that point. It's not a, it's not that mentoring you they're, they're offering their expertise as a service to be mine and the fear and the, the, at least for me, like my still discomfort, when we go back to that idea of workshopping an idea. If I put, put forward a short story in a group and they add things in and I, I make use of that. There comes a point where you're. You have to give credit, right. And it's never clear at what that level is at what point you, you say, thank you for lying to the group for helping me workshop this, versus giving somebody an author credit versus, you know, the different levels of, of contribution. And then at the expectation of Reimbursement. If, if you say, well, this person did a lot of editing on, on my, my story. I'm going to give them a, a writing credit on it and being nice about it. Nice being, just being honest in saying, Hey X person helped the lawn experts and given, then go look at my, my name is on this too. I should be getting 50% of whatever. Exactly. So it becomes how much credit can you give and still make money with what you're doing. Tim: You kind of lose the the, the, the giving aspect of a community. Versus the what's in it for me. Right. Mike Porter: And that's, that goes to the Fred Rogers quote, actually, if you're, I think that that's sort of the fear of giving a credit or helping out. You're not going to get any, anything out of it. That's the person that Mr. Rogers is saying, isn't that isn't their hero. The person that's, that's volunteering, their, their expertise and help to solve. Is the person that he's looking at as Tim: being easier. Fantastic, fantastic thoughts there. Do you think and I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here and that's not just because that, you know, the drink that I have has a is an ex gold cup in the most of my tattoos have skulls on them. You get to keep that. No, I do not. As far as well, I don't know. I might, I could fit my bag nicely and I would assume, no, I wouldn't want to do that. I like these people here at this coffee shop that were fantastic, Mike Porter: but I'm Tim: going to play the devil's advocate here with that. And could it be that that what you, you know, published that first book once you get that first sponsor once you get that first a thousand dollars on Patrion. Sure. The other people that have. Guided you, mentored you at that point, then they kind of go, okay, well you've made it over that hurdle. You've made it over that goal. Fly be free. Now, now it's up to you to do that. Now it's up to you to repeat Mike Porter: that. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a, there comes a point when mentors become peers. And that that fits into community somewhere. I mean, you can have a community of peers, you can never I'm not sure. I'm not sure what your, your, your point is to it. Other than, other than just say that. Yes. I think that at some point you know, the student has become the master grasshopper that you've learned as much. Ken from somebody in a practical sense, but at least artistically since it's a creative endeavor, there's no limit on creativity. So you can keep learning from the same person and seeing how they create things and learn something new from them. As long as they're willing to let you observe or interact In terms of a community it, it becomes more difficult for peers in a competitive industry to help each other out Tim: their world is a very competitive thing. And there's Mike Porter: only so much wall space for your, for who gets to hang their P their paintings. Right. So that's true. If, if you get that, that showing, that means somebody else is, and I don't, I get, I think that goes to that, that idea that The more involved, artistic ideal would be congratulations. You've gotten this space and I will get my space. And it's, it's not a competition. But as long as we're looking at trying to make a living at it, we're going to be the professional versus the amateur. I mean, that's it, that's when it, when you can. You can't be as altruistic as you might want to be because you're going for a limited Tim: resource. So it basically, once you hit that point of you no longer to have that, your, your professional, then you don't necessarily. Cutthroat about it, but you have to you you've taken on a new master per se, instead of the the inspiration ferry that, you know, flies around that, you know, it's everybody, you have to think of it as a business. You have to go on that left side of the brain. Right? Mike Porter: I think, I think that the community is a lot more willing to help you out on the creative end of things, and a lot less willing to help you out on the business. End of things, because creative. We helping you develop an idea that you've come up with and right. That you, or tell your, your own or whatever that doesn't cost me anything. Right. Getting you to the, so once you have that idea and develop, once you have that painting done, once you have that story. And you're trying to get it published. That's where we start getting into competition. And that's where the community, I think, breaks down in the sense that we can work very well together on workshopping an idea. But as soon as you're trying to get it published, and if you're wearing the same art form, I'm writing a science fiction stories and you're writing science fiction stories. There's only so many places that are accepting science fiction stories. And I might not want to tell you that about an idea where you could actually sell that idea if I'm intending to submit something to that place, to And that doesn't make you a bad person, as I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking that it's also misguided in the sense that while you and I are both submitting something to the same people, we're not in competition with each other, we're in competition for their attention. My, you, you putting in. A great story. Isn't stopping me from putting in a great story and both of us feel accepted, but it's hard to get past that idea that it is a competition that even. I guess a more involved. I think you, you don't look at it as being in competition with each other. When you're living paycheck to paycheck to paycheck, it, I'm going to stop hitting the table because of you get Tim: the typical questions you want me to focus? He's about ready to flip over the table because he knows that if we were to go ahead in the science fiction, writing contest, he would beat the crap out of me. He's a better writer than. Mike Porter: It is very kind of you to Tim: say, well, I try to be kind like that because you know, I, I do fear you. I just, I thought I should let everyone know. I do. I do fear Mr. Porter here light mighty brain hit his mommy brain and is something that I have been eating all of ever since I lived in Chicago and he actually reviewed some of my work a long time ago in a galaxy. And provided some good criticism for me. And this was a long time ago. You may or may not remember it. Mike Porter: I think that you gave it to me at one of these spoken word. Open mics. Tim: I'm remembering correctly. I saw, and I give it to you when I lived in Chicago and we in tele my wife passed about two and that he can help me. I don't. Am I a minute spoken when I could be, you know, there's been many, you know, it serves so much time has passed. We've known each other for so long. Excellent. So with this community idea here do you think you would be better to have a community of different disciplines? W would you be more willing to do it? I think we need different disciplines. So let's say you wanted to do some writing and then you were in a group of painters, podcasters dancers. No, that congestion Mike Porter: first, first we have to overcome the idea that one discipline is better than another. No, I'm not. I'm not just, just trying to think of, of how that community would work because you would tend to. Collaboration. Because as a writer, I can sit in this coffee shop that we're in right now, and I can look at the paintings on the wall. Tim: It'd be inspired to write something because of that painting. I've my, one of my books of poetry wisdom from the it was 60 pounds, 30 poems in 30 days. I did it twice, you know, so I had 60 poems in 60 days. And I give it to my good friend, Heather, and I said, I need some illustrations paintings. What have you, anything grabbed me? And she did all the illustrations for it. And she did the editing on that poetry book. So I think. Our forms can influence and inspire each other. She's also a writer. She's also a poet and musician and all that kind of jazz. You know, she's got a lot like me, which is scary. She's the female version of me. Mike Porter: Well, do you think that makes it easier when you're a Jack of all trades like that? You can put a master of none you can look at at how other disciplines can interact in, you know, when you, when you're painting. And that inspires you to write a poem about that piece. Well, and good. You're you you've worked those two disciplines together. But if you're only. Tim: Oh, you're just a writer, just a lowly writer. Cause you know, we all know that the writers are the lowest ones on the totem pole. There are, what do they got a piece of paper and something to put it on. You don't even need a pen. You, you know, you can take a mark who decides example and be in the insane asylum and write a whole book with poop. I don't, I don't think that's true. That is true. I saw it on a movie once. Mike Porter: I don't think he wrote a book in feces. I think that's a great story. Tim: That's true. We will put it in the show notes. We will find out we'll do some investigative journalism here with all the money that you guys are putting in my patriotic. Oh, what, Mike Porter: what I think with a community of a diverse community of different art artists, artists, and artistic types. First you'd have to overcome the, the tendency for groups to come together. And that's where people who are like yourself that are able to bring together a diverse set of skills and different forms of artistry to bridge that gap because. Wow most, well, not most, but a lot. A lot of artists tend to be insular creatures. They live inside their own heads. And so when you get a group of artists together, it's usually a very quiet sort of, or it's incredibly Rawkus and has nothing to do with art. So in order to facilitate a productive community, you would have to have people that are able to bring up, bring people into the conversation. Okay. If you leave things to their own devices, I think that the painters would clump with Peters, right? As you'd pump with writers, and then they would maybe wave at each other across the room and say, your thing really inspired me. Thank you. And you're welcome sort of thing. But in order to actually get collaborations, you would need somebody to say, Hey, Hey, come in, Kevin, come into this conversation. What do you think. About X and, and make that that person share. And once you get those, those boundaries down, I think you would have an amazing group that that would fire off of each other. But until you have those, those facilitators in inside of a community of artists, I think it's, it's just going to be a lot of so quiet introspection and every so often, very hesitantly showing something to somebody else. Tim: So what's stopping you from creating this. Me, you might stopping you from this. Yes. It's Mike Porter: all your fault. Usually it's my fault for myself. Tim: Why would you want to partaking up the cup? You're picking up the cup now. He is, you know, deep in thought and he's being very contemplated here, folks. But my question to him is going to be, you know, would, do you feel yourself or would thrive if that community was presented to you? No. No. You don't think you would thrive that. Mike Porter: I, I think I can see how other people would thrive in that and how beneficial it would be. But I am, you're very handsome. I'm crazy shy. And I don't like groups of people and I would much rather, you know, My wife has said in the past, we'll go have fun and going into, into groups and we have very different, different definitions for fun in those things. I, I sort of at any gathering and up against a wall. Sort of watching and then every so often I'll make the effort to dive back in like one of those Valiant sea turtles, just sort of pushing, it's trying to get given the tide of the party will push me back up against the wall and get my breath back. Kind of get that energy back up being by myself and then I'll dive back into the party, but I'm Tim: telling you, it's not for you. Yeah. I'm not, Mike Porter: I'm not a big sharing kind of kind of person. Tim: Do you think that that would it's not for you, but do you, would you get benefit from it? Do you feel you would get benefit from it? Mike Porter: The. Brutal honesty of, of self-reflection reflection. I would probably benefit very much from it. I'm not sure anybody would benefit from me being there because I would not be sharing as much as I wouldn't be sort of quietly in the corner, listening and taking notes and bettering myself because I just, I don't deal with groups very well. Just not extroverted enough. Tim: Okay. We're not, we're not, we don't have the couch here today, so we're not going to psychoanalyze. I hope you're okay with that. Sure. Okay. Good. I mean, I, if you want to, we can go to my house in the man cave in the studio. I have a couch there with a vibrating chair. It doesn't have heat, but I do have a little, a little, a little firebox there that we can turn on and have some heat pour on us. And we can say, I call the sideline long as you, if you like. Mike Porter: Well, I'm just saying that right now. There's two of us. Tim: Yeah. Well, there's, there's three. There's you and me and the listener. Right. Mike Porter: But they're not Tim: interacting. Sure. They are. They're judging us as we're talking over Mike Porter: there quietly, what is he talking to him? He does not know what we're up. He speaks, but I don't know what they're thinking. So their judgment of me has no impact on me talking to you. I feel no. Wait. I have people around me judging what I'm saying. I feel a little bit because I'm in a coffee shop and I'm sure that other people can hear me and then feeling a little nervous, more nervous now that I'm thinking about that, Tim: but you're here with me. Right. And I'm a very, yeah, you can take, you can take them a very extroverts. I've been known to be that way on occasion. Okay. So I'll take them on for you. If anyone, everyone harasses you, Chicago Tims. But, but the point being that Mike Porter: There was a point something oh, that I, that I don't mind the, the, the idea of the listener, because I, it's not going to effect what I'm saying right now. On the other hand, if I was in a, in a room. With the expressed purpose of us as a group, doing something together, I would feel a great deal of weight in expressing my, my opinion to a bunch of people that would be judging that opinion in real time. In front of me, which again goes back to that idea of digital community. I'm a lot more comfortable sharing stuff on a, on a forum than I am in in person. Tim: So maybe what we need to do is to set up a community where you can be cloistered in a room where you can view what's going on, and then you provide your feedback without having. Actually be in the physical presence of the people that would be in the room and then they could get a read out of it, you know, that you could write your paragraph or whatever it is and say what you liked and what you didn't like about it. And then, and just leave it at that. And then that way you don't have to interact with these. Yeah, that's weird. Okay. We won't do that for you kind of prompt. So this idea of community things that the artists communities are not necessarily your cup of tea and it's understandable. It's understandable. You've explained yourself. Mike Porter: I love the idea of You know, that the artists, community of painters that are off and they all have the same thing that they're painting and PG moves around and looks at their stuff and it gives them pointers in that you're there to develop your skill at painting. And I'm sure the same thing can work for, for almost any artistic endeavor. But when it's more. Interactive when it's more on the level of peers, that's where I get really nervous. So that's comfortable. And I don't think I would be the hero that Mr. Rogers would want me to be. Tim: And you need to be the hero, Mr. Rogers, much. Mike Porter: Everybody should be the hero that Mr. Rogers minds, Tim: folks, you heard it here for student Mr. Rogers. She's going to move you coming out here Mike Porter: on Netflix and Tim: it's fantastic. It is on Netflix. Did I miss it in the theater? Yeah. I Mike Porter: don't know if it was released in theaters. I'm not sure Tim: Tom Hanks, right. It was a play Mr. Mike Porter: Rogers. Oh. And we're thinking of something else. There's a movie coming out with Tom Hanks. I wasn't aware of, but there is a biography of Mr. Rogers there on Netflix currently. And it was really good. Tim: I know. I was actually talking there is. From what I understand now, again, you know, NPR has better information than I do because they have three more listeners than I do through our viewers than not listeners, but viewers. But yeah, there's a movie that's supposed to come out with Tom Hanks being, playing a part of. Mike Porter: But you're listening to a higher caliber. Tim: They're they're they're they're very good looking folks. More discerning. They are more discerning they're way more intelligent. That's what I heard. That's Mike Porter: that's what I know. I heard that recently, Tim: I, I know that they are way more intelligent, way more. They're nicer people. There are people that you want to, you know, bring over to your house. And have a wonderful conversation with, well, bring over to your house. I'll bring over to my house. Absolutely. I'd love to bring all the people that listen to this podcast over to my house. Right. And you know, I, I would cook some poutine for some of them, man, that would be enjoyable. And for the other people, I would you know, bust out my grill in a grilled from steaks. Some asparagus grilled asparagus is very tasty and the the the little dish that I made last night for my wife, with the Alfredo sauce, the pasta shells asparagus, and we had not scaling. Scallops scallops. Thank you. You're welcome. Oh my gosh. The scalps animated that my wife and I had three bowls off in less than 24 hours and she thoroughly enjoyed. She's probably going to have some more tonight. Mike Porter: We'll see. Before this is a community. You can define the community by what foods you do. Okay. Tim: And you really can't, you really can't, you know, there's, there's people that like the. The farm farm to table stuff. There's people that are you know, raw they like nothing cooked, vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, pescatarians, peanut, the buck Tarion's, you know, all that kind of good stuff and the omnivores. And of course the carnivores, which they'd all the carnivores have tiny little arms just saying, all right. Well, Mike, thank you so much for this conversation with us here on community. You provided a lot of great insights, I think. And you know, folks community is out there for you. I think you can create community if you really want to, they might bring up some fantastic points about once it comes from a mentor mentees situation to a appear situation. I think he made some great points with that. Is there anything else that you'd like to leave us with with community? I think that the only other thing that I would say about community is that almost by definition, it's an investment. You have to be willing to invest time and effort in order to build community communities. Mike Porter: Don't just happen if they did, when I brought Cookie's over to the neighbors. They would have just been, Hey neighbor, thank you. Sort of thing. You, you have to continually reinforce the idea that the people that you want to be in a community with are important to you, that they have value and that you have. Insight or value for them. And that's what keeps the community together. I think the idea that you're in something together, or you have something to share with each other in common. Excellent. Tim: Excellent. And yeah, just like we're building this community with you, our listeners. He must end up iniquity where we create more than we consume. Can't wait for y'all to listen to this episode and the rest of our episodes. Go back through our catalog. You can always reach out to us at kdoipodcastingatgmail.com. Let us know if you would like to get involved in this. We have 11 topics for you to choose from Mike here. He chose this topic. I well, you chose two topics. And I we picked this one. We may get him to talk on the other topic at a later time. But that's how easy it is. Mike did was this pretty easy? This was Mike Porter: fantastic. I love doing this. This is a painless way of expressing opinion. It's like, if you don't like, I, everybody likes talking about themselves. And an extension of that. I think it's you asking? I think about X. Well, let me tell you about and why I think that my opinion, why my opinion matters. Tim: So next episode with Mike here, we are going to ask him when he thinks about the letter X. That's right. We'll probably use the capital X versus the lowercase X because you know, Mike has a lot of thoughts about the I believe it's true. He had more thoughts about the upper case versus the lower case. So again, thank you for gratuity. We will see your next episode. Remember you consume All right. Well, thank you for joining me. As I go down memory lane in discussing community with Mike Porter, he was my cartoon, not my comic book guy, not my cartoon guy, but he was my comic book. Way back in the day. Unfortunately he had closed his shop, but it was a fantastic conversation that we had at a local coffee shop here in town. So you got to hear a little bit of the ambiance as it were. I really enjoyed doing these conversations on specific topics with a lot of my artistic friends. And I hope you got something on. Now I would ask you if you did get something out of it, go ahead and subscribe or follow on your podcast app of choice. Or you can go right ahead to the website, create art podcast.com and subscribe right there in 2022, we're going to be doing these KDOI rebroadcasts there'll be 10 episodes. This is the first one and we'll have our regular episodes. And I also want it. Remind you that I run another podcast called find a podcast about, and that's where we help you find your next spring, where the podcast and outsmart the algorithm. And you can find that at find a podcast about dot X, Y, Z. For creating art podcast, you can email me timothy@createartpodcast.com. Twitter and a Instagram account and a YouTube page for you as well. All the links will be in the show notes. So it's been my pleasure to help you team your inner critic and create more than you consume. Now. Go out there and create some art for somebody you love yourself. We'll see you next. This has been a gaggle pod, east studio production gagglepod pod, where we've been helping creatives tell their story through podcasting. Since 2017, you can find all of our network shows at gagglepod.com. You can contact with. We want to help you tell your story to the world through .

Episode 116p Retrieving the Real North African Church with Dr. David WilhiteDescription: Today is the last episode in our Summer of Scholars series. It lasted a bit more than just the summer, but it also started late in summer! Dr. David Wilhite, Ph.D., of Baylor University Truett Theological Seminary joins us today to talk about the Church of North Africa during antiquity. We have talked a lot about North African Christianity in this series, so I highly suggest you go back and listen to our episodes with Dr. David Eastman for more background and context. In this episode, Dr. Wilhite will lead us through a specific text and issue in the North African Church between the Donatists and the Catholic party about a generation before Augustine. It is a fascinating time and place in Church history. About Today's Guest:David Wilhite, Ph.d author of The True Church: Retrieving a North African Sermon on the Song of Songs and many other books.https://www.baylor.edu/truett/index.php?id=927830#wilhiteYou can learn more about the History of Papacy and subscribe at all these great places:http://atozhistorypage.com/https://www.historyofthepapacypodcast.comemail: steve@atozhistorypage.comhttps://www.patreon.com/historyofthepapacyparthenonpodcast.comBeyond the Big Screen:Beyondthebigscreen.comThe History of the Papacy on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6DO2leym3kizBHW0ZWl-nAGet Your History of the Papacy Podcast Products Here: https://www.atozhistorypage.com/productsHelp out the show by ordering these books from Amazon!https://amzn.com/w/1MUPNYEU65NTFMusic Provided by:"Danse Macabre" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Virtutes Instrumenti" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Virtutes Vocis" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Funeral March for Brass" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"String Impromptu Number 1" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Agnus Dei X - Bitter Suite Kevin MacLeaod (incomptech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/Image Credits:By Ariely - Own work, CC BY 3.0, ttps://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=4533576By Pam Brophy, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=9124089By ACBahn - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=33810833Begin Transcript:[00:00:00] Thank you for listening to the history of the papacy. I am your host, Stephen. We are a member of the Parthenon podcast network, including Scott ranks, history unplugged James earliest key battles of American history, Richard Lim's, this American president, and more go to Parthenon podcast.com to learn more.I'd like to quickly mention Patrion, of course, and your support really, really, really helps this whole operation keep going in. And I just love it. If you just consider two. Donate on patrion.com forward slash history of the papacy in the new year. There's four tiers, Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, and Rome.You get inclusion on the history of the papacy diptychs bonus audio, video [00:01:00] content, and much more just head over to patrion.com forward slash history of the papacy to learn more. Now, let us commemorate the Patrion patrons on the history of the papacy. Diptychs we have Roberto Yoren, William Bryan, Jeffrey, Christina, and John and Sarah at the Alexandria level.We have Dapo Paul, Justin, and Launa all of whom are magnificent at Constantinople and reaching that ultimate power and prestige that of the sea of Rome. We have Peter the great. Today is the last episode. And our summer of scholar series, it lasted a bit more than just the summer, but it also started late in summer.So I'll take it that we got a little bit of a late ending too. But anyways, for today, we are interviewing a great scholar, Dr. David Wilhite of Baylor university's Truett, theological seminary to talk to us today about the church in north Africa, during antiquity, we've talked a lot about [00:02:00] the north African church in this series.So I highly suggest you go back and listen to our episodes with Dr. David Eastman and even go way, way back to the episode that I did on the north African church. And you can kind of explore. Not only my changing understanding of north African Christianity, but also some older scholarship and how the whole church and north Africa was viewed because really up until the seven hundreds, the history of Western Christianity was the church in north Africa.And I it's just endlessly fascinating. And I think you really can't understand Western Latin Christianity without understanding the north African church. Now for this episode, Dr. Wilhite will lead us through a specific text and issue in the north African church between the Donna tests and the Catholic party about a generation before Augustan.It is a [00:03:00] fascinating time and place in church history. And with that, here's the next piece of the mosaic of the history of the Pope's of Rome and Christian Church.I'd like to welcome our very special guests today, Dr. David Wilhite, Dr. Willhite is a professor of theology at Truet seminary at Baylor university in Waco. He's the author of numerous books, including Tertullian, the African and ancient African Christianity. The topic for today's episode is his book, the true church, retrieving north African sermon on the song of songs.This is a short and readable book on a really incredible, interesting topic. And I think people should definitely pick it up and I'm excited to talk about it because I think it gives the reader a really close look at all these things we've been kind of talking about with the African church, with the Donna tests and the Catholics that gives us a [00:04:00] more of a personal view of the topic, I think.But so I think to start off, what were the theoretical frameworks you use to study these sermons? Yeah. Well, thanks Stephen. It's an honor to be talking to you about all of this. Um, let's say the theoretical framework. So this really began as an, uh, a journal article that I wrote, and I would say I was using pretty traditional methodology just as far as, you know, kind of trying to reexamine texts, trying to sort of create a chronological order and see what assumptions have been, um, uh, made in the past by previous scholars and what assumptions probably need to be challenged.And then I sort of tested them against archeological remains and again, just sort of, sort of traditional, uh, historical sources. Now, the truth is what was really driving that research was a theoretical framework that I had used in my, in my doctorate, which was, um, in most general terms post-colonialism, uh, more specifically.[00:05:00] Adopted some of the, sort of, uh, from the, from the field of social anthropology, sort of how to get around some of the ethnocentric assumptions that we make. So again, and challenge those, you know, the assumptions of earlier historians, what, uh, what were people's identities, what identity politics, where I play things like that.Um, power dynamics with, with Roman colonization, um, Apollo that, so with post-colonial theory in particular, there's one author named Homi Bhabha who has a book called the location of culture. And he takes up this idea known as third space. And since, um, that's already widespread and post-colonial theory is sort of the helping people who inhabit the so-called third space.They're not necessarily colonizer nor colonize, like that's too binary. They live in this sort of hybrid world. So, so what are their identities in that space? And then with, with this project, I was actually. Examining concrete spaces, the silica buildings. And so that, that [00:06:00] I sort of dove back into that realm of what is third space.Um, there, there is a person named Edwards. So high, I think is how you say it. So Jake who has taken on, I mean, this, this way of thinking from Michael Miguel, Michelle Fuko, and others, and saying like, how do we understand actual inhabited places where people sit and interact, um, especially when they're sort of power dynamics and, uh, one view versus another view and what emerges out of that, it's this third space.So I used all of that, trying to narrow laser-focused that on, on this one particular text. So we look at the. This text, there's the two, the dueling sermons. You might call them. Who were these two people who were writing these sermons about this, this space? Yeah. So the, the sort of last texts to us is by Armenian of Carthage.He's the Bishop of Carthage after Donotos and Donald tests. Your listeners probably remember from the great Donald to schism, he's the sort of the Bishop that was at the head of all of that for [00:07:00] 40 years, 40 plus years. So when he finally dies Permian as his successor, and he's also a long-term because over 40 years, he's the Bishop of Carthage, even though he was exiled, he was the leader of his party.So he's hugely influential. Um, and he, we know that he gives a sermon or some sort of speech, um, when. Uh, the emperor Julian who's a history remembers as Julian, the apostate, because he was not gonna continue the line of Christianity like Constantine and the other Christian emperors. Julian allows the so-called pagans to come back and have their temples and shrines back.And that means that all of the, um, the, you know, the, the losing parties, the heretics, uh, of the early church. We've been ousted from their churches and their, their places, uh, we're allowed back. And so the donotist party had lost control in terms of the Imperial sanction, uh, after Constantine. But then when emperor, Julian allows the donotist to [00:08:00] reclaim their church buildings, their basilicas Armenian has this text that is celebrating that event.So that texts that says lost to us, fortunately, even though like most heretics, you know, once you become a heritage, your books are burned. Like most of the heretic sources are lost, but, uh, there's a

Episode 116o Baptism and Original Sin with Professor James PapandreaDescription: In today's episode we are going to lay out the fundamentals and history of baptism in early Christianity. We will also take a look at how the earliest Christians understood sin and Original Sin.About Today's Guest:Link to Professor Papandrea's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/JimPapandreaYou can learn more about the History of Papacy and subscribe at all these great places:http://atozhistorypage.com/https://www.historyofthepapacypodcast.comemail: steve@atozhistorypage.comhttps://www.patreon.com/historyofthepapacyparthenonpodcast.comBeyond the Big Screen:Beyondthebigscreen.comThe History of the Papacy on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6DO2leym3kizBHW0ZWl-nAGet Your History of the Papacy Podcast Products Here: https://www.atozhistorypage.com/productsHelp out the show by ordering these books from Amazon!https://amzn.com/w/1MUPNYEU65NTFMusic Provided by:"Danse Macabre" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Virtutes Instrumenti" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Virtutes Vocis" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"Funeral March for Brass" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)"String Impromptu Number 1" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Agnus Dei X - Bitter Suite Kevin MacLeaod (incomptech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/Image Credits:By Ariely - Own work, CC BY 3.0, ttps://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=4533576By Pam Brophy, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=9124089By ACBahn - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=33810833Begin Transcript:Steve Guerra: [00:00:00] Thank you for listening to the history of the papacy. I am your host, Steve, and we are a member of the Parthenon podcasts network. Are there members of the Parthenon podcast network includes scout ranks, history unplugged podcast, James Early's key battles of American history. Look for some interesting things coming out of there and Richard limbs, this American president go to Parthenon podcast.com to learn more.We are on patrion@patrion.com forward slash history of the papacy. There's the four tiers, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and Rome inclusion on the history of the papacy. Diptychs as one of your bonuses for joining the show, you'll get audio and video bonus content, Pope coin coming soon. Book drawings, early content ad free content and more so definitely sign up early.So your name can be a higher on the list of the history of the papacy. Diptychs. Now [00:01:00] let us commemorate the Patrion patrons on the history of the papacy. Diptychs we have Roberto Goren, William, Brian, Jeffrey, Christina, John, and Sarah at the Alexandria. We have Dapo Paul, Justin, and Ilana, all of whom are magnificent at Constantinople and reaching that ultimate power and prestige that of the sea of Rome.We have Peter, the great, I am very excited to be joined once again by professor James Papandrea. All things early Christianity, Dr. Papaandrea's, professor of church history and historical theology at Garrett evangelical theological seminary at Northwestern university. He has an excellent YouTube series on the early church call.The original church, you can find it at youtube.com/JimPapandrea or in the show notes. You can also find many of Professor Papandrea's lectures on YouTube, as well as you have heard and will hear today, he has a really entertaining style and [00:02:00] presents information. Anyone from the person with the casual interest in church history, all the way up to an academic expert can enjoy and great gig great information from, I may not be an academic or a scholar, but as a time teacher, I can tell you that's a tall order from any teacher teaching any topic.In today's episode, we are going to lay out the fundamentals and history of baptism in early Christianity. I'll also take a look at. Earliest Christians understood the idea of sin. And now with that, here is our next piece of the mosaic of the history of the Pope's of Rome and Christian Church. So you've done this series on the original church, and there's a lot of issues that come out of the original church. And one of them is this issue of baptism. It's something that goes back to the very beginning [00:03:00] of. The it's right in the Bible. And there's also this idea that Springs out of original, original sin.But before we go too far, what is baptism and what does it do? Dr. James Papandrea: Well, Is the Christian sacrament of initiation. And so in that sense, it is kind of analogous to Jewish, uh, circumcision for men, obviously. Uh, but it combines in some ways, uh, Jewish circumcision as initiation with the Jewish purification baths. And so. Of course, we know that before Christian baptism, there were Jewish baptism.So John, the Baptist was doing this, this thing, um, that was not quite Christian baptism, but was a, um, ritual of purification and commitment. Right? So all of this becomes becomes built into Christian [00:04:00] baptism, but. In the Christian context, baptism is a sacrament. It's one of several Chris, you know, in the west, we count seven sacraments and Protestants have, uh, usually have two or, but, but in, in the understanding of the early Christians and, and I would say the medieval Christians and probably most Christians to this day, a sacrament is not primarily something that, that people do.A sacrament is primarily something that God does. In, in many contexts, especially in the United States. And if you see this in the Protestant world, in the evangelical world, baptism has become something that sort of is something that people do to commemorate a past event. Like as if to say, well, I made a commitment to Christ, uh, you know, a week ago, a month ago, a day ago, and now.I'm going to do this thing to sort of, you know, ritualize it and commemorate it. Right. But that's never, [00:05:00] what baptism was meant to be. Baptism was meant to be something where you're entering into, um, what God is doing and receiving grace from that. So sacraments are always primarily something God does.And in the sacrament of baptism, we receive grace. That we need to begin the journey that is the Christian life. And in the sense of, uh, that is an initiation, it also makes us a member of the body of Christ, the family of God, the church, which then allows us to participate in what is the culmination of church membership, which is the Eucharist.So it basically gives us a place at the table of the Eucharist. Um, so that's what baptism is, I guess, in a nutshell,Steve Guerra: Now in baptism and it says it in the, in the gospels that it's for the remission of sin and there's, there's sin that sin of something that somebody does, [00:06:00] but there's also the sin that. That they would say that we're born with, from the original, the sin that Adam and Eve did all the way, you know, way back in the beginning.And that still carries through with that baptism kind of wipes, that one away at both of them. What is this concept of sin? Because they're sins that we can do, but their sins that we just get and whether we like it, or we don't. Dr. James Papandrea: Right. Well, there are, you know, as, as you say, there, there is original sin, which is, uh, something that we're born with, something that we inherit as a sort of a legacy from our ancestors. Um, and there's, you know, there's a lot of different theories about how that might work, but essentially what the, you know, what the church fathers would say is that, you know, there was this moment when Adam and Eve sin and at that moment, Adam and Eve were 100% of the number of humans on the earth.In other words, in [00:07:00] that moment, every human being alive sin, and that is somehow. Uh, effecting the rest of us through our common human nature. And so St. Paul will say in, uh, in his letters, uh, as in Adam, all sin. So somehow Adam's sin affects all of us. The other kind of sin of course, is our own personal sin.It's things we do, as you said, and these are things that we do or even think about, or, or whatever. There are things that separate us from God. I mean, ultimately that's what sin is. Sin is something that. Is an act of our will that separates us from God on some level, you know, not necessarily permanently, but with some sins maybe.But the point is, is that, that, you know, every little sin chips away at our, at our unity with God, our relationship with God, because in that moment, when we sin. On some level, we're choosing something else over God. [00:08:00] So we have this original sin that we're born with it that, that our human nature is affected, uh, from, from our ancestors.And then we add to that every generation commits more and more sin. So sin as a concept is like this snowball rolling downhill, just getting bigger and bigger and bigger to the point where you and me. There's no way we're going to get through life without sinning. Right. And so, so we cannot, re-establish the relationship with God on our own power.We cannot work out reconciliation with God. That's why we need a savior. That's why we need God's grace, which is God's forgiveness. And love and mercy and compassion and all of these things that come to us. So we get baptized. We receive God's grace, which is, which is that we, we are, uh, we get a clean slate.Our slate is wiped clean of all that, ancestral, sin, all the stuff in our past, it's a clean slate. It's not a free ride because the minute [00:09:00] you sin again, now, you know, now you gotta deal with that, but at least the baptism gives you a fresh start as.Steve Guerra: Now and the, the Jews of the second temple, they used baptism and kind of a different way where they were really concerned with this idea of ritual, pure ritual purity, where, you know, And different rules on that. You had to do this, this,

A Game of Thrones has inspired characters who contain such strong good qualities, like honor or justice, that it can lead to his or her death.  And writing classes teach developing characters with strengths and weaknesses to make them well rounded. A heroine can be a skilled warrior AND too self assured.  This makes a more complex character, one that is beyond two dimensions, but what about a good character that just loses it and takes the first punch? In this episode of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast, Autumn and Jesper discuss the Evil Within. The episode is inspired by this blog post: https://www.amwritingfantasy.com/the-evil-within/ Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.  SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.  Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.  Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (2s): You're listening to The Am. Writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now on to the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Jesper (30s): Hello, I'm Jesper Autumn (32s): And I'm, Autumn. Jesper (33s): This is episode 155 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And when studying the craft of writing, we learn about creating characters who are well-rounded, who have weaknesses and strengths. But what happens when characters unleased the evil within? Autumn (55s): I like this topic because, well, I do like gray and nuanced characters. I like fillings with good traits and I like heroes with not always the best of traits. I think it makes them more relatable. So this is going to be a fun podcast to explore the dark side of your heroes. Jesper (1m 14s): Yeah. Yeah. Autumn wrote a blog post quite a while back for the AmWritingFantasy a block. So that's sort of the starting point for this conversation. I guess you could call it at least that's what inspired us to dive into the pool of evil to The Autumn (1m 34s): It's good. It's the good evil pool, right? So it should be kind of, I don't know if it's shallow early, deep in a couple areas, but we'll figure it out. Jesper (1m 42s): Yeah, yeah. That's yeah, that'll be interesting. We'll see where it takes us. Autumn (1m 47s): So how are things over in Denmark? Jesper (1m 51s): Well, not much as chains, to be honest since last week, you know, I'm still just preparing for the referee instructor class and practicing presentations. And I had a meeting the other day with, with my mentor. And so, yeah, I still have not gotten back to writing at all. Autumn (2m 11s): Well, I think you have enough going on that. That seems fair. Plus, it's giving me time to read book two so that I'll be ready to help plot book three. So take your time. You're good. Fine. Jesper (2m 25s): Good. Don't worry about it. Autumn (2m 27s): You deserve the break? Jesper (2m 30s): Yeah. Well, something funny. I wanted to mention, you know, how in the master mailing list, because that we have available for sale on I'm Am Writing Fantasy dot com total block there. If somebody wants to check that out, but, but you know, in that course, how we talk about how you can possibly segment your email list? Autumn (2m 52s): Yes. I remember that. Yeah. Jesper (2m 55s): Okay. Yeah. So our insurance company should really learn a bit about this segmentation of email lists. Yeah. Autumn (3m 3s): Oh, Jesper (3m 5s): The letter from the, or an email rather, from the insurance company yesterday, and then I logged in to read what this message was about? Because I was not expecting any message. So I was like, okay. And then I read that email from them and they just wanted to let me know that in some cases they have not treated cases concerning pregnant, pregnant women in the proper way. And they want to let me know that this would change going forward. Okay. That was exactly my thing of like, okay, I'm not a woman. I don't think I'm pregnant. At least I don't, I don't believe so. Jesper (3m 48s): So I was just thinking maybe you should learn a bit about segmenting your email list, at least at least segment between men and women. I think that should not be too difficult. Autumn (3m 59s): Well, maybe they thought, you know, in case you wanted to let your wife know that, you know, the car and send the message to her. I agree. They should have been able to figure that one out. Jesper (4m 10s): Yeah. I mean, may, maybe there's something about it that they thought like they wanted to inform people, you know, in general, like a general information that we are sorry that we have. I mean, I fully understand the message, nothing wrong with the message there. Right. It's good that if they had discovered that they have been doing something wrong and they recognize it and they would want to correct it, I'm all for that very good, good information. Right. But couldn't you just like maybe put an announcement on your website or on your blog or something to say, like, I just, I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why they're sending out emails to males, letting them know about pregnant women and how they, how they handle cases for pregnant women. Jesper (4m 50s): I don't quite understand. Autumn (4m 52s): I didn't understand either. They took the least, they did the, Jesper (4m 58s): Yeah, yeah. Maybe it was the intern who was at work that day. And it was like, who am I supposed to send it to? I don't know. Send it to everybody. Okay. Autumn (5m 7s): I can do that. I don't know how to segment. Oh, there you go. Well, you know, I guess it's better to be over informative, less informative. Maybe they just never had thought about putting a gender question in their information. Jesper (5m 25s): Well, they have like a, what is that called in English? I don't know. Dennis Deniz is like, you have a, it's not a social security number, but you have like a number, you know, what is it called, named you don't you have like in the U S like a number in the official systems for you yourself, you know, Autumn (5m 49s): Their social security number. Jesper (5m 51s): Is it that in your yeah, but, okay. But anyway, they do have that number, a numbers ending on equal numbers is women and unequal numbers are men. So it's not that difficult to work out. Autumn (6m 6s): Yeah. And it's not like that over here. It's pretty random. Jesper (6m 10s): I couldn't imagine. Yes. Why am I not surprised Autumn (6m 14s): You threw something at the wall? It seems to be working at least it hasn't collapsed in weight yet, so we're good. Jesper (6m 21s): Well, okay. I'm not going to comment on that. Autumn (6m 25s): That's what I covered. Comment on the U S government. Please Jesper (6m 29s): Know, that's what I was thinking. Autumn (6m 31s): This is not a political podcast. Jesper (6m 34s): No, just let it fly. Let it fly. Didn't hear anything. So, but how I think so on your end, Autumn (6m 42s): Pretty good. Just a lots going on doing a little bit of actually be doing a little bit of a seasonal job and just rearranging life and we're going to be moving. And we have some extended family worries with mental health and old age. So that's, you know, weighing on us and, but the good news is at least I've had some gotten to create some really awesome book covers recently. And I'm on like the last chapter for magic unleash. So I'm just moving it up and got to check some of the weird character traits that we came up with, especially dialect. So once I finished that off to the editor, so I'm really excited and I can't wait to delve into the second book, which is being dark gods. Autumn (7m 28s): And then we have to figure out the plotting for the final book and the name. We still only one, we have a name, so we Jesper (7m 34s): Have no name for us. Autumn (7m 36s): So we have to name it and we have to come up with the plot. So that's all going good. So, you know, there's, there's bright lights here and there and mid the murkiness life chaotic. Eventually I keep saying this, eventually my life will settle down, but yeah, we can hope I have hope. Jesper (7m 55s): I hope it's a good note to end on Narrator (8m 0s): A week on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Jesper (8m 6s): So just a couple of thank yous to share here today. First of all, Pamela Payne joined us on Patrion. So thank you so much for your support, Pamela. Yes. And we also have moose beard. That's actually the name that it goes by on Patrion, but it must be at rejoined us as well. So thank you for that. We really appreciate it. Autumn (8m 33s): Yes. I enjoyed the conversations with moose beard. I know I've talked to him a couple of times in the past, so I'm excited. He came back to us after a little hiatus and it's wonderful to meet you, Pamela. Thank you so much for your support on Patrion and we're well, glad to have you. And it's my responsibility to send you the book cover bookmark that comes with joining. Yeah. Book covers. Sorry. I've got book covers on the brain, but bookmark and it we'll do that tomorrow or Thursday. I promise. So if it's late, it's my fault. I'm sorry. Jesper (9m 7s): Yeah, it happens. But if you haven't checked out patron yet and all the different rewards that we do offer to support us over there, please follow the links in the show notes. And Joel also just to reiterate a patron is the only source of funding we have for this podcast. And to be very honest, we are not Sealy seeing nearly as much support as we would like there. So please go and check it out. Autumn (9m 32s): We appreciate it. If you do support us, thank you so much. Narrator (9m 38s): And onto today's topic. Jesper (9m 41s): I actually re-read the block post the evil within this morning, Autumn. And you started out by talking about using arsenic to poison loved ones and neighbors and stuff like that. So when I started reading, oh, you almost scared me from this, from this. Autumn (9m 58s): Did I tell you I was into poisons that it was an article? I think an Atlas Obscura that got me thinking about this topic. And it started with talking about when arsenic was banned and how prevalent it had been used to kind of take care of some members of the family or neighbors or how many people actually poisoned people with arsenic. And I was thinking not all of these people were bad people. They were people who had LA you know, they might've had kids. They had people they loved in their lives. There was just for some reason, one person or hopefully one, we're not talking about serial killers, just someone they wanted to get rid of. Autumn (10m 43s): And they would use this readily available poison. That was just, you could just buy it at the corner store. And there was very little repercussions from getting as much of it as you wanted. And the symptoms are pretty benign. You could mistake it for a lot of different illnesses. And so a lot of people seem to have been off over the centuries. Jesper (11m 6s): It sounds so horrible. It's just like, I'm just imagining like everybody going to the corner stores and buying an awesome Nick for everybody. They don't like, Autumn (11m 15s): Oh, it's like others that, oh, there's a play. What is it T in our snake or T old lace in our sticks, something like that to you, an old lace. I can't remember the actual title, but it was sort of the same thing as like someone invites you over to T bury the hatchet between you and yeah, they're going to bury something. Maybe not a hatchet. Be careful when you're invited for social calls in the 18th century, I guess in 17th century, not the best time. So I thought that was, Jesper (11m 48s): It's easy to get your hands on. Did he say anything about that in that article Autumn (11m 53s): Regulated? I mean, this was before regulations and things like that. You could, I mean, at the time you can get Bella, Donna, there was a whole bunch of stuff that pharmaceutical that were used as like an, a pocket pocket potluck carry. There we go. So you could just pick this up. It was used to poison rats in LA, you know, other critters vermin around the house, not necessarily your neighbor, but it was Jesper (12m 16s): Readily from many different things, including, I mean, there was a time where it was on a wallpaper. It was used very well. The first wallpapers were almost coated in our Snick. So we just didn't understand. We kind of knew what was poisons, but when we realized how badly it was poisonous, except for the people who were using it to kill off people like guess, oh my God. Yeah. Just imagine that somebody worked it out then this like, Hey, got to tell you a secret. If you don't like that guy, take this bottle, put it in his tea. He just see how bad it is. And then, and then all of a sudden, everybody knows. And isn't like, where did this all start it. Every time you go to a cheap nowadays, you have to be scared. Autumn (12m 59s): That's horrible. Yeah. But anyway, this is a podcast about arsenic and how to, how it was once historically prevalent way of getting rid of people you no longer wanted in your life. Oh, a numeric. But about those people who were probably, you know, good people, maybe they went to church, they were had led good lives, but something made them do something very evil. And it started making me think about even our characters, especially often fantasy, you know, people talk about superficial or cardboard characters. And I started thinking about, well, how often do we really explore the depths or the evil within our heroes? Autumn (13m 43s): Instead of just having, you know, you, we do these lists of traits of, you know, they like blue. They hate their little sister because she wants, stole their favorite toy or something. We make up these stories that go with our characters. But often we don't include like a truly bad character flaw, or even when it comes to just doing a bad action, maybe they just lose their temper. And that was one of the places I really started is what happens if your character, this good person just fricking has a bad day. They've been hiking. They've been struggling, especially if they're not the hero. Autumn (14m 24s): Maybe they're the side character or a sidekick. And they're just a point of view character. And they've gone through all of this quest for their bestie best friend. And they've stood by and they've been hurt wounded. They're sick, they're tired, they're muddy. What did they just snap and just yell or hit or punch, or just go down to the Tavern. And they don't mean to take it out on somebody else, but they're not going to go hit their best friend. And they end up in a brawl. I'm thinking, this is, this is a character trait. That's kind of interesting. Why aren't we exploring more of the evil within our good heroes, Jesper (14m 60s): But it humanizes to protect the nest, right? I mean, having them sometimes make mistakes or just not being the perfect hero. It, it humanizes to me, I think it makes the character more believable and more likable. In fact, I mean, not, not likable because they do a bad thing, but more likable because you can relate to it. You know, you know that that from yourself, you, you can get, you sometimes get angry and you do or say things you regret because you were too, too angry. So having a protectiveness that sometimes end up in that situation as well, I think it's actually a good thing. Jesper (15m 41s): Maybe sometimes as writers, we are too concerned about having the character, always being the likable person that does all the right things. And so on. Maybe, maybe we think too much about it and maybe we just need to dial it down a notch and make them more human. Yeah. Autumn (15m 59s): I think that's such a good way of putting it. I mean, it's, we do relate as a, we've all had those moments where, you know, if we, if you, there were new repercussions, how many times would you just like to go ahead and hit your boss or just, just act out and actually say what is on your mind? But we hold ourselves back. But the fun thing about fantasy is, or any fiction is that we can actually explore what happens if you don't or what is that straw that will break you or break your character and make them act out. And would that be the interesting, usually we have the dark night of the soul and it's based on the character being stubborn and refusing to admit something. Autumn (16m 41s): But what if it comes out that they just don't want to admit that they're wrong about something? What if they do something stupid or horrible or they act out and do something that's wrong and they have to come to a reckoning about their own actions. That's also a very powerful dark night of the soul. And we don't explore that that much and fantasy, it's usually a consequence that happens to them. But what if they're the cause of it? Jesper (17m 6s): Yeah, that's a good point. And I think as well, it, it's not only about the relationship between us as writers towards the reader, but it's also between the characters themselves. You know, that, well, sometimes even having a character who is just like the completely unlike unlikeable or unrealistic love interest, our way, you know, like this is never going to happen. And then in some way, on one way or the other, it ends up happening anyway, between the two characters, like I saw, I saw on good, you know, they have this list, Topia stuff, different kind of things, and listed together. Jesper (17m 54s): And there is a list called couches, hate each other, then fall in love. And there's 263 books in that list. So it's kind of a thing. Autumn (18m 4s): It is kind of a thing, oh, they often I've seen it in real life too. That sometimes people who aren't getting along is because they are too similar and maybe their traits that they need to accept about themselves. And once they do, they can bond, but there's a lot of learning maybe self-learning before you become, can actually get along with this person, who's sort of like your psychological twin. So that is also a good way of, of looking at it is yeah. The characters who should get along, but end up not, but end up then falling in love. That's a fun twist. Jesper (18m 44s): Yeah. It's a, co-talk basically you're talking about there, right? I mean, it's, the coats are realizing maybe something, I think it's more powerful when they realize something within themselves, you know, they realize their own floor and then they figure out how to conquer that floor. And because of that, then they get to fall in love or something like that. I mean, I think that works really well. Autumn (19m 9s): Definitely. And the other thing that I thought about with this is, you know, what if your Good Characters are actually the ones who act first? Cause that's another thing we often see. It's the main heroes, the Good Characters are the ones who are reacting to the antagonist, to the villain. So they're always good ones. They're the ones trying to solve the problems. But you know, if you have a nuanced villain and he's, or she is trying to do stuff in the best of their interests, but it's just rubbing your heroes the wrong way. What happens if they actually are the ones who attack first? What are the ones who go in? Autumn (19m 49s): Cause you know, they go attack the guards or they go attack a village. They do something that's more hostile, even though they're doing it out of the good, what they see their good interest. But that doesn't mean they're always necessarily going to act good. And that's, I mean, it's a theme I explored in my first trilogy, the one of the last scenes in the last book. Well, the beginning of the chaos of the last book comes because the heroes go to save someone who's been kidnapped, you know, but they're being held hostage kind of cruelly, but the person is still alive and they go to rescue them and they're just so angry. Autumn (20m 29s): They act out violently, they destroy some beautiful temple, this wonderful thing that this has been sacred for centuries. They end up destroying it. And then the bad guys, well the quote unquote, bad guys really have a reason to go and attack the heroes because now they're pissed off too. So something that maybe could have been dialed back with some talking like, Hey, you stole, you know, you kidnapped our friend. We want him back. Jesper (20m 57s): Can you please get him back? Oh, okay. My mistake, I'm sorry. Autumn (21m 8s): Maybe they didn't have to go into a full world scale war, but it does because they act out really aggressively. They overreact to something that they shouldn't have. And because of that, they technically hit first. They are the ones who started the whole war. I mean, if you look back in the history books, they always say, the Victor is the one who writes them. But if you looked back, I think they would be like, well, we should probably shouldn't have gone and done that. But that's sort of the difference. I mean, that's a fun topic to explore. If you have a good character with bad traits, are they still good? Autumn (21m 48s): And I've thought about that. And to me, my answer is a good character can do bad things. They just regret it later. They realize their actions were wrong. A villain will do good things and they'll do bad things, but they'll justify the bad. They will have a reason. They did it. And they're like, it's fine that I killed a hundred people because they were going to just get in the way. And they were stopping progress. Well, they're just testifying. Jesper (22m 18s): I killed a hundred thousand to save 10 million or something like that. That will be their way of thinking. Autumn (22m 23s): Exactly. And that's, to me, that's evil, they're justifying it, but a good character will be like, I hurt one person. You know, I acted out violently, you know, other people maybe died or I destroyed this thing and I shouldn't have done it and I am wrong. And again, that can lead into a very powerful dark night of the soul going, what is wrong with me? Why did I follow the same path as this other person? You know, why, why did I become slightly evil? I shouldn't have done that. How can I stop myself from doing that again? That's a huge turning point in a character art in the novel, in a story. So that's fine. Why we should see that more in fantasy in any literature. Jesper (23m 6s): Yeah. Speaking about starting wars because of it. Not that long ago. No. Maybe I dunno. Maybe it's actually a couple of years ago. I'm not sure, but I watched the show. Troy. I think it was on Netflix. Have you watched Troy? Autumn (23m 24s): Yeah. It's been a while ago. Is there so many different versions? There are a few toys, but I did not. I've watched two or three. I, I said I love history, so yeah. I've, I've done a lot on Troy. Jesper (23m 36s): Yeah. I think this one was a TV series. It was not the one where Brad Pitt please. Achilles dad was one of my most, I just absolutely love that. He's so freaking cool in that. But, but I think this one was a different show, but the point I wanted to make was that the Trojan prince Paris is he Smith. And by the beautiful Helen who is married to manna, Laos and Paris is actually as a, as a character. He's a bit of a coward, you know, when he's loved to Helen then sparks the entire Trojan war and at least to the death of a lot of people. Jesper (24m 18s): But Yeah, but, but in the context and the context of evil within, you know, Paris doesn't really care or perhaps he does care, I don't know, but he definitely does put his own wants and desires above everything else. So that the evil within basically, you know, it can take many forms in this case because he is a coward. He's not the one causing direct pain onto others, but he takes actions with them, which then has the consequences that causes the war and all the pain and all the people who are soldiers who die and so on and so on. Right. So it can take many forms. And I think, I think it's important to look at it in a bit of a broader perspective as well. Autumn (25m 1s): Yes, I agree. That's it. It's true. Cause I mean, you can always take just something like selfishness or cowardliness and yeah, let it have, let it maybe be kind of bubbling underneath the surface, but then to manifest in a way that could be the inciting incident like Helen being kidnapped. I mean, it sets off the whole chain of events. They could have negotiated that out. I don't know what Helen's view of that was, it is a relatively silent in the history of the world where she played a part of this. And if you wanted to go even in the first place, but it's all, it is an interesting topic to say, you know, these, these character falls can be in the hero and they can be the ones that really start the chaos of the book. Autumn (25m 49s): It doesn't have to just be because there's a villain who's causing horrible things. I mean, truly the Greeks are not villains in, you know, with, in the Trojan war, they're going to rescue Helen, but it becomes this whole greater, you know, you can get into the socioeconomic issues going on and who wants to rule over everything, but really they're just coming to rescue Helen because she's, there is, and it's a love story. It's a love story. And it, you know, again, we're we see it from the Greeks point of view, but we can also often watch it from the Trojan point of view in modern day shows. So really there's no horrible party in there except for maybe at the end when the Greeks are throwing babies off the walls of Troy and completely flattening the city, that's pretty rough. Autumn (26m 36s): But I just recently read an article about things on those natures and I was just thinking, wow, I ha I'm. I had forgotten that in the Trojan Jesper (26m 53s): War. That that was a scene in the, in the ed. Wow. Yeah. Hmm. I think I just mentally skipped that part. Yeah. But I do have a question here that I'm curious what you think about. Okay. Yeah, of course. Of course. Otherwise there's no fun in recording podcasts. If I can surprise you with something, Nobody, this is more like a reflection because speaking of the evil within, I'm just wondering, do you think that you can take this concept like too far, you know, can you end up actually disrupting your entire story and destroying everything because you're taking it too far? Jesper (27m 37s): Or, or what do you think about that? Autumn (27m 40s): I think so, but I think it depends on then what genre you're writing. So if you're gonna write Nobel bright, your evil within your Good Characters, should there should be something and it can be deep. It could be one, you know, something that is a true evil trait that causes maybe a whole war, but they're going to regret it and they're going to grow from it and they're going to heal and it's going to end up leading to maybe not the glowing future they wanted, but it would be a positive change. If you're writing dark fantasy, it could be what destroys the character or causes the chaos or moves it into like a dystopian dark fantasy. That's really kind of, it would definitely be very, more psychological as well as physical, which could be a very interesting and aspect, almost like a thriller. Autumn (28m 27s): And then of course, if you want to transform either your hero or a sidekick or point of view, character to a villain, this is a great way. Let them, you know, it doesn't have to be either people use things like alcoholism or they want to they're power hungry or they're corrupted by a magic gem. But what if it's just a trait that gets out of control, maybe they're a little self-centered or they're cowardly and they're trying to cover it up. And so they end up making the wrong choices, which leads to more wrong choices, which leads to greater evil and people die. This one Netflix series, the hundred is a very interesting example because one of the, the hero and the hero in of all like the entire series Clark, I think was her name. Autumn (29m 9s): Yeah. She was known as like this killed hundreds and thousands of people and her actions were enough to almost just keep all of humanity from progressing into the next, I don't know what you would call it. Realm or state of being because of her actions. And she is a basically left behind. It was like, you either go forward without her or you don't go forward at all. And you're lost as a whole society or culture race. So that was fast. You still like Clark, you still think she's a great character. She did these things because she was trying to save people that she loved and her friends. Autumn (29m 51s): But I did think at some point there were times I didn't relate to her because I'm like she could have chosen a better way. She's especially towards the end where she's doing it all in the name of her daughter. And I'm just like, oh my, yeah, Jesper (30m 3s): It gets a bit too much. Autumn (30m 4s): Yeah. It's like stop the maternal thing. There's another side to her character. That was much better earlier on. So yeah, it could go too far, but again, it depends. You need to sit back and think about the genre you're writing for and the tone you want for your novel and that's gonna make it, you know, if you go too far, one way, you're writing a completely different genre. Jesper (30m 28s): Yeah. I think there's a good point around what character we're dealing with here as well. Because if it is the protectionist, I do think you need to be a bit careful because if you go too far, all the likeability will go out the window where you just mentioned clock there in the end, in the latest seasons of that show, she started to really annoy me. I liked her in the beginning, but at some point it was just like, oh, it's too much now. But if you take well Paris, for instance, we just in Troy, you know, he's not a very likable character actually, but I don't think it's too bad there because there are different characters. Jesper (31m 9s): That's, it's more like there isn't like a one protagonist in most of those shows. It's more like the, all the characters together that tells the story. So, so in that sense, I feel like it works. But if you take, for example, did you watch the walking dead? Autumn (31m 27s): No, I did. And I don't do zombie movies or shows. Jesper (31m 30s): Okay. No. Okay. But Andrea is a character in the walking dead, and I think she's a great example here because she is not the protagonist in that TV show, but in the comic books, she is a beloved character. I'm not read the comics myself, but as far as I understand, she became like a second mother for their main protectiveness son. And basic, she ends up marrying the protagonist later on in the comic books. As far as I understand I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it. But actually in the TV series, what they did here was that they had her as part of one of the earlier seasons. Jesper (32m 13s): And then they ha they had her basically abandoned the rest of the group, abandoned the protagonist because she sort of got very, I don't know, fascinated or whatever you want to call it with the show's main villain called the governor. And so, so she just sort of went to him and stayed with him. And people just started hating this character, you know, when she sort of just the protectionist and just went for this and he's the governor, he's like a real, like, insane fuck. He's crazy. And she goes in and basically stays with him and is like, okay, then she's out the window. Jesper (32m 55s): Right? Forget about her. Nobody likes her anymore. So this is an example of a character who in the comic books were quite liked. And then, because you made her do some things within the show. I don't think that those things happen in, in the comic books, but in the show they made her do some things that were just like, you couldn't forgive it or ticket it. Take Jamie Lannister in game of Thrones when he pushes the breath, out of the window, in the beginning of the show. Right. Even, and they do like 2 million things throughout the Cummings after following seasons, they're they, they do so many things to try to redeem him and make him a good character and show. Jesper (33m 41s): But at least for me, the fact that he pushed a kid out a window that never left me no matter what he did after that, it was just like, yeah, but you, you push the kid out of the window. It's just not okay. No matter what else you do for the rest of your life, it's not okay. Right. So I do think there's something about, you need to be mindful of how far you take this evil within thing and how far you drive, because some things you cannot come back from. Autumn (34m 9s): Yeah. That's so true. I agree that there's a difference between losing your temper or taking the first punch or even starting a conflict versus, you know, killing an innocent or wounding a child or these other things that are just, yeah, you do those. And it's going to hang over their heads the entire time. And there are some things that are completely unforgivable. I, like I said, I think even Clark, there's a few things in the hundred that I just, you know, they, they called her, there was a blood Raina, or that was the other character. But just like you do something that is so bad, that it is, it becomes your title, that you are a tainted by it and it will follow you everywhere and you might be good, but you're never going to be as good. Autumn (34m 56s): You're never going to hit those high, high points. You're never going to be untarnished and that might work for your story. It might show a great character, but again, if you are writing noble bright, you've got to have people who want that pureness, or at least something a little bit higher where it's like, wow, your, your, your friend or your counselor really did some bad things, but you stayed clean. You stayed out of it, or you at least told them not to go do that. That's sort of who you want as your main character, but another once in dystopian or dark fantasy that might work great for your main character to have that kind of an arc where it's just like, they want to, you know, earn their place back. But they know they're never going to get quite as far or as high and accepting that, that they're going to have to live with this, with this taint in their soul for the rest of their life is, is also a very nuanced thing. Autumn (35m 49s): And then probably a very powerful story to write, but you to make sure you're setting up your entire story for that kind of level of impact and not just, you know, write your way into a corner and then go, oh crap. That's not what I wanted to do with my character. That would be bad. Jesper (36m 8s): Yeah. But also that the thing that happens or the consequence or the action that the character took was something that is, is forgivable. As long as the character is really, you know, regretting it and showing their regret and trying to make it better. But it has to be something that is forgivable because otherwise you cannot come back from it. And for some reason, hurting an animal is just like, nobody forgives it. You know, if the character in the first scene of the story kicks a dog or cat or something, that's it, nobody will forgive it. I mean, you can have stories where the main character kill somebody, and that is forgivable for whatever reason that, you know, if killing another person is, is apparently okay on the some circumstances. Jesper (36m 54s): Of course, not every circumstance, but readers can forgive stories where they're protecting this, kill somebody. But if they protect the kicks, a dog or cat, no way, it will never be forgiven. Autumn (37m 7s): You think game of Thrones? No, it'll never be forgiven. But do you think game of Thrones would have been different with Jamie if he had ever showed true guilt and apology to even brand, just to actually have felt hard out, sorry, because think he did, at least in the show, I didn't finish reading all the books, but in the show he never seemed to be apologetic. He again just said I did it because I wanted to save Searcy because I had to do it for my sister. He always justified it. He never said, I'm sorry. He never, you never felt he was sorry for it. And I think that is part of why we see that tarnishment to his character. Jesper (37m 46s): Yeah. I think you're right there. I think if bran had died from the fall, then it wouldn't have mattered if he had regretted it or shown regret. And I don't think there would be any coming back from that, but because Fran did not die. And if you had shown Jamie Lannister really being saddened about it and it really it's weighing on him and he he's regretting it. And then maybe, maybe you could pull him back from that. And maybe people would w would sort of forgive him after a while. Yeah. But I think it's only because brands survive to fall. Otherwise it would have been, it doesn't matter how much it probably, most people would feel like almost readers. Jesper (38m 28s): And on this case where we're talking about a TV show, so viewers in this case, but probably most people would just be like, yeah, it's good. That you're feeling that bad. You deserve it. You know? So it's not about forgiving any more. It's more like, yeah, you deserve that. So it becomes something else. All of a sudden. Autumn (38m 47s): Yes. I agree. So, yeah. So I think that's a good conclusion that there are, there are some things that you can't pull a character fully back from, which could work for, depending on your genre. But if you're writing certain types of fantasy, if you want your character to emerge scape, you know, scratched, but pretty much, you know, okay, there's probably a few things you should avoid, but otherwise exploring those evil intentions that evil within is, is a really interesting way of progressing a story and showing a character arc and showing a character change that is much more dramatic than some of the minor like, oh, you're mildly irritating and you have a stutter that I can't stand. Autumn (39m 27s): You know, that's, that's so minor compared to the, the, what we're talking about, these traits that we're talking about here. Jesper (39m 35s): All right. That's very good. So we will be back next Monday and this time for a critical reading episode where we will be discussing Jade City by Fonda Lee, which is the one we've been reading over this past month. So see you then. Narrator (39m 50s): If you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

Some plot twists can elevate a story into a masterpiece, whereas others utterly destroys everything that came before it.  In this humorous episode of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast, Autumn and Jesper compete to come up with the WORST five plot twists ever created.    Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.  SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.  Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.  Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (1s): You're listening to The Am writing Fantasy Podcast. In today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now on to the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Jesper (30s): Hello. I'm Jesper. Autumn (31s): And I'm, Autumn. Jesper (33s): This is episode 149 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And this is the first episode of the month. And we all know what that means. Don't we Autumn? Autumn (44s): This one's a challenge where we compete with each other to come up with the worst of something. So these are always kind of fun. Jesper (54s): These are my favorite ones and today's top 10 list is the WORST Plot Twists EVER. Autumn (1m 3s): Oh gosh. At least I'm not going to give you a plot twist and say what? That's not what I prepared for. So I'm ready. Like I just mentioned to you, I actually was, I thought we were recording this two days ago, so I've been ready for two days. So I've got a good list. I think it'll be fine. It was actually really fun. This one was feeling kind of, I don't know what to come up with. And so I did a little bit of reading and research and started thinking and I'm like, oh yeah, there's some fun ones in this slide. Yeah, I think so too. All mine movies, although I only have two movies, so ha I, I actually tried to stick with books as much as possible, but yeah, two movies snuck in there. Autumn (1m 49s): Okay. I know I picked movies on purpose because then I could play some audio clips and I liked those. Lets you do one of these days. I want you to plan ahead and send you some movie, some clips and tell you not to listen to them until you play them. But that's going to be kind of hard cause you have to test them somehow. No, no, that'll be fine. That's fine. I can just click and listen half a second just to see if it plays and then stop it. Okay. One of these days, one of these days I'll really be prepared. It'll be a miracle, but everybody's mind just like my God. Yes, it will be and prepare us. Autumn (2m 30s): That'd be fantastic. Just imagine. Anyway, how are things going for you? Jesper (2m 37s): I'm pretty busy these days. I just finished up the first draft of book two in our new Sherry's over this last week. So that was good. That's exciting. Yeah, but I'm taking a short break from writing now because I have so much preparation to do for my attempt to become a referee instructor. So that's basically, Yeah, it's taking up so much time. So yeah, just taking a bit of a break between book two and book three in our series a so that will probably be okay. But Autumn (3m 11s): I think that is fine since you were so much further ahead of me on the Writing department. I don't mind if you take a little writing break and let me catch up a bit. Jesper (3m 22s): No, no, indeed. That's fair enough. And yeah. And, and, and speaking about referee, actually, sometimes it's nice to have a referee at hand because yesterday my youngest son, he was playing a match and then we arrived there and then the coach came over and he said like, well, the referee who was supposed to be here has not shown up. So can you just refereed this match for me? I was like, oh my God. I mean, I don't have any of the clothes on, I don't have whistle. I don't, I didn't have anything because I was not going, I was just going to be spectator. Jesper (4m 2s): Right. But, but then of course, I mean, they, they don't have a referee and I was just standing there. So I said, okay, fine. But I don't have any of my things with me. So I'll have to shout instead of blowing the whistle and so on, because that's what you're going to get then. And, and we did then, but that why I'm mentioning it because I was really surprised because these are a 13 year old kits. Yeah. Right. And I'm a bit surprised about how their behavior, you know, that, that they can talk the way they do to adults. Autumn (4m 40s): Really. Jesper (4m 41s): Yeah. Because I don't get, I mean, they, the away team there, they were the players that their 13 year old kids. Right. But they were complaining a lot, like all the time, like, well they've, they felt like the free kick was the wrong way or to the wrong team, or it shouldn't have been a free kick and, or the throw in wasn't in the other direction, in their point of view. And it was just all kinds of things. They complained all the time. And then the one point, like during the second half, I, I started getting a bit annoyed by it. Right. So I, one of the guys, one of the kids then complained again. And I just said to him, like, be quiet and concentrate on playing soccer instead. Jesper (5m 24s): And then another teammate of his who was also walking by, he then said, well, we can't concentrate with your round. It took me a bit back. What did these are 13 year old kids talking like that to adults. What's going on? That Autumn (5m 39s): That's crazy. That's quite a backtalk man. Yeah. Jesper (5m 43s): But I didn't do that when I was 13 years old, no, to an adult? I mean, what's going on? Autumn (5m 50s): I don't know. I didn't raise kids so I can not even imagine. Jesper (5m 56s): No. But do you remember when were 13 year old? You wouldn't speak like that to an adult, you didn't even know, would you? Autumn (6m 1s): No, I usually didn't speak. I had my nose in a book and I was just like, I prefer a silence. I am mute. So no, I would never have spoken to a, an adult with a bit of a snap, not till I was at least 16 or 18 and being snarky. Jesper (6m 19s): Yeah, indeed. Yeah. I don't know. I think there's something going, because, and we talked about with some of the parents as well, not, not specifically to refereeing as such, but just in general. How, how the younger generations nowadays, they, they are very like egocentric, you know, they just focus on themselves and their life and they are the ones who are important. And I don't know. It's it's, I I'm, I D I don't like that kind of attitude, I must say. No, Autumn (6m 48s): No, I, I respect any parent trying to raise a kid these days. It's, it's, it's a challenge with internet and so many issues. And I just Instagram for kids that they won the launch. I mean, let's just see this hideous. Absolutely. He is. Jesper (7m 6s): Yeah, indeed. So, yeah. But how about you? You've been busy as well. I know Autumn (7m 14s): I've been working on a portfolio website and, but it was also my husband's birthday. So we went for a hike it's high it's like peak fall colors. The trees are like yellow, and they're just dropping these gentle golden leaves in the sunlight. If it's sunny, this is all for artificial lighting today. It's a kind of a gray day, but other days it's been sunny. It's just, just, you know, in the seventies. So maybe a flannel weather and just absolutely stunningly gorgeous. So I cannot complain. It's, it's always a shame to have to do to computer work on such lovely days, but at least I have a nice view of the forest. Autumn (7m 56s): As someone pointed out, I've got a nice view behind me. So, you know, I'm not suffering too badly that way, but yeah, it definitely seems to be a very busy fall, but it was wonderful to take a day off, to go hiking. And we're actually hoping for a bit of a float trip cause he worked as a whitewater raft guide for the summer. So we're hoping to go back and do the same trip together without paying customers just to have fun. And that'll be really kind of nice to get out. So yeah, I think so. Jesper (8m 28s): Very cool. And you're also busy editing. I know. Autumn (8m 31s): Yes. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. Thank you for jogging my memory. I'm so close. I wanted October one. I wanted to be done, but between that fantasy colony, I went to and a birthday celebrations and fueled their little life hip cups. I'm so close. But then I also remember we are, one of our characters is a dwarf and we created this whole speech pattern for how they speak and was like, oh, bugger that I had tried to do it a little bit, but now I've got to go back and double check. So it's like, I have like two, three chapters from the end and also have to go back and do a quick sweep of everywhere the door speaks. Autumn (9m 9s): And so it'll probably be at least another week. Yeah, probably another week, but I'm living with it because it's so nice to be like seeing Scribner and you like, you're this, this long we're hitting definitely over 40 chapters, by the way, to see this huge list of Barbados so close. So that does feel very, very good knowing this is the last one, but it's still like, I feel like this is the one that every time I think. All right. I'm oh shoot. I forgot about doing that. It is the never ending story. We're so close though. Jesper (9m 45s): We'll get there Narrator (9m 48s): A week on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Jesper (9m 53s): So after launching our new critical reading initiative, two weeks back, you can go back and listen to episode 1 47 if you missed it. But we also had to pick the next book to read and their voting already took place on Patrion and also in the Am Writing Fantasy Facebook group. So if you want to join in, you know where to go, if you want to vote in the future. And we don't know if we're going to keep this upright, I mean, this is was a new initiative we are doing and we will see how much people enjoy it or how much they, they jump on board and participate. And of course, if they don't and we will probably stop it again, at least now we, yeah, at least now we are on the second month. Jesper (10m 39s): So at least the second attempt, we'll, we'll just try a bit more. And the voting this time was between the sudden appearance of hope by Claire, north Jade, JTD by finale, or which marked by cl Polk. And we had a pretty clear winner. Autumn (10m 56s): Yes we did. I, there was no getting rid of wiggle room in this winter. So we had to go with it. I have to say. Jesper (11m 5s): Yeah. So it was a Jade City by Fonda Lee that we, we picked up this time around. So, and of course we already started, you know, the, it was the voting took place like a week ago or maybe over the last two weeks from the time that this episode airs. But of course we still would love you to read along. And this episode where we will analyze JTD will air on the 22nd of November. So by the time you listen to this, if you listen, when this podcast episode releases, you still have a bit of time if you haven't started reading yet. And if we need to give you a bit of incentive, we can say to Jade city is the winner of the world Fantasy award. Jesper (11m 51s): It was shortlisted for a Nebula awards, the Lotus award, the Aurora awards, the sunburst awards, and became best book of the month on Amazon. So you might want to check it out. Autumn (12m 2s): You might, and if you need more incentive, I've already started reading. I picked it up instead of reading the news, which is horrible. Anyway. So I've been reading a Jade city for my breakfast and lunch breaks and I already 30% in. And I think I only started a couple of days ago. I like it. I really kind of got sucked in. I see a few things. I'm like, well, I don't like how, you know, funded this few point of view things that I'm like, eh, but the story, I don't know, it's totally sucked me in all the characters have pulled me in. And so I'm like, okay, now I've gone from, oh, I've got to read a book. Autumn (12m 45s): Where am I going to find the time to, okay, I need more time to read this book. I read this. I even put aside some of my design work last night, cause I needed a mental break from it. Anyway, when you fall asleep too many nights in a row, thinking about the next thing you need to work on, I was like, okay. I took a, an evening off. I read instead and I thoroughly enjoyed it. So I have a feeling I'm going to finish this one probably before the end of the weekend. Jesper (13m 13s): Wow. Okay. Yeah. I, I, of course I do audio books because I don't have time to read and I read too slow to read an entire book unless I, well, I could read it in a month, but then I really have to dedicate time to it and I don't have that time. So I do the audio book. I also did that last month, but I, I started listening to it as well. I think I have listened to seven chapters by now. I think I quite like it to so far, I must say, compared to last month book as well, this one is much easier to follow. Yes. You know, there's like the storylines, it's pretty clear. I last the, the one we had last month, it was like listening to the audio books. Jesper (13m 57s): Sometimes I had to like rewind or whatever you would call it on the, you know, go back 30 seconds here and there to just listen to it again, because it was, it was a bit complicated. It felt like that at least in the audio book. And sometimes if I wasn't concentrating, I would, I would sort of lose the plot a bit. But, but this one is much, much easier to follow along. I think this one has, Autumn (14m 23s): Yeah, I really like it. I think it has a ton of characters at least named characters, but once you kind of absorb them and see which ones are the really important ones, you're like, okay, I'm good. The plots this plot straight forward, even though the point of view change. And yeah, it's just a really fun story. So I'm, I, I do like this one. I can not wait to see what other leaders like think of it as well. Jesper (14m 46s): Yeah, exactly. And I'm looking forward to discuss sort of the, all the, all the stuff that was done really well and what we didn't like until I did notice though, in the first seven chapters that there are, she's doing the right thing in terms of sharing world building in the sense that it's characters talking about it. But when I was listening to one of the chapters today, it did sort of rub me the wrong way to like, you know, th th the kind of conversation they were having, it was like a conversation nobody would ever have. Right. They're basically telling each other things that they all, both of them already know, but it was clearly dialogue just to get the billing across to the reader. Jesper (15m 27s): And that, that was not too elegant. That, that part. But otherwise, I would say so far, I really like it. Excellent. Narrator (15m 34s): And on to today's topic. Jesper (15m 37s): So here we go on another competitive list. Oh, no, I hit that one again. Yes, he did. I did that last week as well. You did. Autumn (15m 46s): I'm not editing this one out. Jesper (15m 48s): No. Now I have to live with it. There is this for listening to, is this like a loop thing you can accidentally hit when you do a sound clip? And last week I hit it and I made Autumn edit it out. But I guess this time I have to live with the fact that it played twice, But okay. Another competitive list where we will try to outdo each other with the best worst list, and you are still competitive in the body. And Autumn (16m 18s): That's why this is your favorite. It's not that it's a fun thing to find the worst of something. It's just, you're super competitive. And so you're like, yeah, that's amazing. And I'm like, oh, geez. Jesper (16m 30s): It's not that bad. Autumn (16m 34s): I can pick. I do at least a little bit. I am not quite as competitive as you, but I enjoy coming up with the worst ones I can find. So this one was quite fun. And if I remember correctly, I think I went first, last time. So guess who started his, Jesper (16m 53s): Ah, didn't you say that again? Last time as well? Autumn (16m 57s): Oh, no, I I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't. First listeners will have to tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I went first, unless you want to flip. I was fighting. Do you want me to go? I'm ready? My list is awesome. So if you want me to put the best foot forward, I can decimate you. Jesper (17m 21s): I don't mind either way, but I, I will say though that it was actually quite interesting to build this list of plot twists, because I don't know. I really feel like these plot twists when, when I was sort of building the list and looking through this stuff, it's like, if you get the plus plot twist, right, you can really elevate the story into almost a masterpiece. I was about to say, but it can also like orderly destroy everything that came before it, if it's not handled well. And I think that was quite interesting. Autumn (17m 54s): And I thought, I thought it was interesting. I don't know if we'll need to define it if we want to define it now, but I noticed how many bad plot twists involved the deuce ex Machina, which is the term for the God in the machine, or when something completely never before seen in the entire novel shows up to save the day. And instead of being the hero and it's like almost all the ones I was finding where that was, what was happening in the readers were like, or the Watchers viewers were like, no, you just ruined the character. Went through all of this effort, everything suffered, nearly died, lost their loved ones. And then something comes out of left field and saves the day And they hate it. Autumn (18m 38s): So I think that's going to be my take home. Yeah. That we'll have to see if there's another take-home, but that was definitely the take home I got of this was like, do not do this in your applaud. Jesper (18m 50s): Yeah. I think it Dave's ex McKenna, isn't it? Autumn (18m 53s): Yeah. I did not take Latin. I took French, So I, that's not how it'd be pronounced in French. Jesper (19m 2s): Okay. Fair enough. I didn't take friends, so, and I did not take Latin. So what do I know? Autumn (19m 9s): You're just making it up very well. There you Jesper (19m 10s): Go. Calm. I'm waking up as I go. Autumn (19m 13s): All right. So who's starting, You decide. All right. Well then I'm going to go ahead and start fine. I'll just, I'm just going for it. We got to decide. So are you ready? My number five, which I, I, as you know, I ordered this right before we started recording. Cause I had not done that part. So this is the only one. It is a movie. It's not my only movie, but it's one of two, but it's the only one I have not read or watched. So this is out of the dark, out of the dark by David Weber. And I chose this one to include because I thought it just sounded so crazy. So this is a science fiction novel in which humans are fighting an alien invader on a human colony world that Vader's are too powerful and all seems lost when out of the blow, one of the humans turned out to be wait for it Dracula. Autumn (20m 8s): And he single-handedly destroyed the alien invading force by using his vampire powers. Jesper (20m 17s): Wait, wait a second. So, so Dracula was part of the story all along and nobody knows. And then all of a sudden he is there, or yes, he just came on on screen. All of a sudden when you needed him, Autumn (20m 28s): It turns out he was a character all along. And a lot of people have pointed out that it was very obvious because his name was I'll loop cut because I can't pronounce it. It's Dracula's spell backward is, was his, his name. People are like, oh, it's so obvious. You know, there's these Roman S Scholtz Scholtz soldiers. And there's this, you know, guy who is Dracula spelled backward. Obviously he was there all along, but everyone else said there was absolutely no hint that the guy, this character was a vampire. And it was just so surprising that most readers absolutely found it crazy, just totally out of left field and never saw it coming. Autumn (21m 14s): And it ruined the entire story up to that point. They just felt like an entirely different ending than the novel should have had it. Jesper (21m 22s): Right. But, and the other thing I don't understand is that he would have known all the time that he has that he's powers and you can just defeat them if he wants to. So has he just been walking around letting them take over like, well, I don't care. I'll deal with it later. Autumn (21m 38s): I don't either. I haven't read this one. So I, I can't speak to that, but I was sort of wondering the same thing saying, oh, he was there the whole time. Why was it ever a problem? It'd be like super bad. Like, oh, I can't use my powers. I can't use my, oh fuck. Jesper (21m 54s): You can't be bothered humans. You can die. I don't, I can't be bothered today. I'm too tired. Autumn (22m 1s): Okay. So I probably will not read this one to find out what really happened, but there you go. That was my number five that I, it just sounded so crazy. I S I always joke. It's one of the examples of like John Rose, smashing you can write anything you want as an Indian indie author. You could have vampires in space. Well, someone has vampires in space. I had to pick this one for the list. Jesper (22m 28s): So that, that is so weird. I don't, I'm not familiar with that book, so I don't know, but it sounds really weird. And I'm just wondering how, how the entire characterization of Dracula throughout the book, how that even works, because unless he he's like a very minor character and you almost don't see him, and then all of a sudden he walks onto the scene when you need him in the end. I mean, that even that is annoying too, but if he's part of the story throughout, then it makes even less sense to me, Autumn (22m 58s): Just from the little bit I read, I think he was one of the main characters. He was very important, so Jesper (23m 3s): I don't get it, Autumn (23m 6s): But there you go. Bad plot twists your turn. Jesper (23m 9s): Yeah. That's a, that's a pretty bad, bad product choice for sure. Dracula. Okay. Well, my online five examples on my list are movies, as I said, and I have audio clips for all of them, of course, just because I think it's fun. Not because I think you can guess all of them, but I'm going to make you try anyway, just because of like, I like tormenting, you like that. Autumn (23m 37s): You too. All right, let's go for it. Get the torture going. Jesper (23m 42s): Okay. So my number five is an example of what I earlier about the ending, destroying everything that came before it. Yes, because I actually quite liked the premise of this movie. And I also remember watching it, that it had me hooked as well. Okay. That was until the end of course. And I have a short audio clip here. So it might reveal which movie it is. This was, this is one of the ones that you might be able to guess if you at least are familiar with the movie, otherwise you can probably not get it, but maybe the listeners can, but let me play the audio clip and then you can see if you can guess it. Jesper (24m 27s): Okay. You ready? Yep. Let's go. Autumn (24m 57s): I've never watched this movie. I'm guessing it was called 23, but I have no idea. Jesper (25m 2s): Yeah. It's called the number 23. That's correct. Autumn (25m 5s): At least I guessed right. So, what's this about? Jesper (25m 10s): So this is a thriller with a Jim Carey where he's character gets a book called. The book is called the number 23. He gets it as a person from his wife. You could hear that in the audio clip, which she says that I'm going to get this for you. So that's a book she buys to him for him. And he starts completely obsessing about this number 23. Like he sees it everywhere and he can constantly see things that makes connections to becoming 23, adding things together becomes 23. It's just all the time, everything. And in this book that he, his wife bought him, the chapter 23 is missing as well. Jesper (25m 53s): So everything sounds pretty interesting so far, right? There's something going on. That's kind of fun. All right. Yeah. And it also had me pretty entertained. I actually quite liked it, but then it turns out the plot twist comes onto the stage now. And the mission chapter 23 explains that a girl was murdered and Jim character character, the main character was actually the one who did the killing. And then you learn that he wrote the book himself, but he has no memory of it because he gave himself a head injury. So he would forget the murder. Jesper (26m 41s): He had an injury. I mean, talk about a skilled head injury. I Autumn (26m 44s): Want to forget this bang. Jesper (26m 47s): Yeah. That, that in itself is pretty lame. But the fact is also that once that reveals come, once you get that reveal, the movie spends like half an hour trying to, you know, come up with the explanation for everything that you've seen and how it all fits together. It just keeps explaining all kinds of it's like, they're trying to justify how everything makes perfect sense. And it's just like the last half an hour. It's just a nightmare up until that point. It's actually pretty interesting. And then it gets destroyed completely. Autumn (27m 22s): Yeah. It sounds that way. I mean, they could have make it significant, make it someone else who did, I don't know, make it a mystery, not explain it and then have to explain everything. And just as I say, beat a dead horse, I mean, it just sounds like, okay, moving on. I don't really need to know that Jesper (27m 43s): It was, and it was a real shame because I, I liked the movie. And then when it gets destroyed in the end, it's a bit like, dammit, Autumn (27m 53s): Why couldn't they actually plot? This sounds. Yeah, you're right. Because up until that point, it's like, everything's adding up. It's like, you know, the number 42 is the meaning of life. You know, there's something important going on here with 23 and yeah, it's actually, he's a homicidal maniac that gave himself a head injury. Jesper (28m 16s): Yeah. And also why, I mean, I, yeah, it makes no sense. Autumn (28m 20s): I, is that your way of feeling regret to like bash yourself in the head? Why, why would you have written a book and then you should have brought the book and then hit yourself in the head and then there'd be no evidence you would have forgotten. Jesper (28m 34s): And why would you walk into a store and find your own book? And your wife accidentally buys it to you for you? It's like, okay. Yeah. That's a coincidence. Yeah. I Autumn (28m 45s): And name. Yeah. There you go. Oh, well, Jesper (28m 51s): Yeah. Okay. All right. But that's my number five. It was not Dracula, but I still feel like it was pretty shitty, Autumn (28m 57s): So, so pretty bad. I will not strike that one from my watch list. All right. So my number four and I was, I think I mentioned said my number five out of the dark was a movie. I was wrong. Sorry. That one was actually a book, but my number four is a movie. I don't know if you've seen this one, but it's a superhero movie. So you'll probably have it. It's not superhero. Movies are not your favorite, but as Hancock. And that actually starts will Smith. Yeah. So, yeah. So if it's the one Jesper (29m 29s): Where he, he can fly or something, right? Autumn (29m 32s): Yes, yes. And it sort of starts out the same way he wakes up in the hospital. He has no memory of who he was, but he's has these amazing powers. So he becomes a superhero, but this woman that, you know, he's interested in, but it's like, whenever they're together, she's the villain. She is the arch villain in the story. But then, you know, it starts like, you know, it sounds like this beginning of a superhero story, like this is the B the Genesis of a superhero and there's this evil villain. It's perfect. But that's the twist. The twist is with like no setup, nothing. It's just suddenly revealed that they're both gods and the previous it's just there. Autumn (30m 14s): And she's not really a villain. She's more like his kryptonite. And if they're at the same place at the same time, bad stuff happens. But truly they love each other. And there used to be two other gods and they basically annihilated each other because of the same thing. They loved each other, but they can't be together because if they're together, they destroy things, things just blow up around them. And as most people who watched the movie have said that, it just feels like you're watching a superhero movie. And then there's this switch. Like someone else wrote the completely different movie ending. And now they're instead of superheroes they're gods and he's got his memory back and they're basically trying to come up with some resolution where they both get halves of the planet. So they don't cross paths. Autumn (30m 57s): I'm not explaining it as well as it's confusing as it is, but it goes from superhero movie to God movie, God, and God. Jesper (31m 5s): Yeah. You lost me a bit there halfway. I think it was complicated enough that even the explanation confused me Autumn (31m 12s): And that's just, it, it feels like it could have been you to stick to the superhero, just stick to superheroes. You wouldn't need to suddenly say that the superheroes are really gone well. Yeah. That's, that's fine. You know, whatever all the way through I have. And at the time I didn't really notice it. I'm like, okay, that's just a weird twist. And now it doesn't surprise me that, you know, will Smith tends to get movies where it's, it doesn't surprise me where the villain is actually not a villain. It's just a misunderstood character. That's very will Smith. So that doesn't surprise me so much, but it was kind of like will Smith on my list. Oh, that's too funny. I wonder if it's, there was a one I almost selected that I would call a rum runner up for this list. Autumn (31m 53s): So I'll have to see if it's the one you chose be interesting. But yeah, I, it was one of those ones where it was a perfectly good superhero, fun movie. Why, why, what happened to him that he lost his memory? Who is this other character? Who's sort of not even a huge character for awhile, but as the villain ish one and what what's going on. And then to find out, you know, boom is just like drop reveal. Oh, you're both gods. Oh, this is what's really going on. Oh, here's your memory back? Oh, there's these friends that you've lost a long time ago and boom. It's just like, well, we're at a totally different movie now. Autumn (32m 34s): Thank you. Jesper (32m 34s): Right. Because it's the same, same thing with, with the number 23. Like it's pretty good. And then all of a sudden it a detour and it's just like what happened happened. Yeah. You're just, you feel like you got, they lost the essence of what they were, the whole plot was up until that point. And you're like, I don't, it wasn't a twist so much as a different story. Yeah. Okay. That's a, it's a completely different story than my number five, but I feel like the, the conclusion of it is exactly the same, you know, it's, it's, it's about a good story. That just goes bad. Yes. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. All right. So what's your number four. Okay. I have a number four now and I'm actually not so sure you can guess which movie this is from the audio clip the fans out there of this stuff. Jesper (33m 23s): They will probably know instantly, but I think I would not be able to guess it. I think so. I'll help you at least by saying that it's a Christopher Nolan movie. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I already for the audio clip. Yeah. Let me go get my phone so I can Google it, then I'll go ahead. Okay. Here it comes. Jesper (34m 12s): So don't worry about what they're saying, but the voices might give it away what it is, you know, the way that he speaks. Autumn (34m 18s): I would say based on the way he speaks, Batman, but I also say that is almost the exact level of decibels that I am deaf in for my left my right ear. So I was like, I don't hear you, but I'm guessing that the deep gravelly voice that is spoken slowly. Jesper (34m 35s): It is definitely Batman. Autumn (34m 38s): Okay. Yes. That's pretty good. That's two out of two now. Jesper (34m 40s): That's pretty good. You're on a roll now. I think, first of all, I have to say that in general, I really like Christopher Nolan's movies and it's not that this one is bad either, to be honest, this is the dark Knight rises. Okay. And it's, it's actually okay. And you know, I don't, I don't generally like super hero movies, like you said, but this one is not too bad, actually. Okay. But why I have it on my list anyway, is because of the actual scene where this audio clip is from. So in the dark, not the dark Knight rises. Jesus. That was difficult to say, Batman is fighting bane. Jesper (35m 22s): You know, that's the guy with that mask on and it looks pretty cool. Yeah. And they are fighting each other for like two hours when we get to this scene. Wow. And yeah. And all the way through, up until this point, Bina, he's like a really formidable villain. No, he he's like really good at what he does of being a villain. And he really challenged us Batman. And then they put in this twist in this scene. So just by the end of the audio clip, you could hurt, you could hear a woman talking. Yeah. And that was a Miranda tape as she used to, like Batman's love interest. And then in this scene, it is revealed all of a sudden, you know, like Batman has final defeated pain. Jesper (36m 8s): He has him like on the ground. I got you finally, like after two hours right off movie, you finally got the upper hand. And then behind him is this, he's a love interest, Miranda, Tate. And then she stops him with a knife. She stops Batman. And you're like, what? And then it turns out, well, she's actually the true villain. And she was the one all along who wanted to destroy Gotham city with a nuclear bomb. It was not Bain at all. And the Bain is basically sort of reduced to this like, well, simple puppy who was just like carrying out the orders of his master, because he's so much in love with her as well. Jesper (36m 52s): I mean, it's, it's just, it's such a shame because I really feel like just the mask that Bain wears, right. That the way he speaks you, you, well, you couldn't hear it, but at least I could hear his voice, but he's really cool. Dean is really cool. And he's a really, really good villain. And then because of this scene, you reduce him to dislike petty criminal. Who's just following somebody else who, a mastermind who wants him to do this and that. And, and then this lady, she kills pain, like really, really easily in the scene. And then this just it, and then Bain is done. And it's like, why do I want two hours of Batman fighting this guy? Like the best villain that he's ever fought. Jesper (37m 32s): And then he's just like this Hensman basically, Autumn (37m 38s): It'd be one thing. If, I mean, at least he should have some charisma of his own, you know, be a good, he could still be an amazing, massive villain and she could be in on it, but she doesn't have to be the one pulling his strings that does seem to reduce who this character from. Totally awesome to. Well, that was, Jesper (37m 59s): Yeah, it's doing such a disservice to the character and all the characterization you've been building so far, because I really think that Bain is very iconic. He's a really cool villain until this point, if this stuff had happened happened, he would have been amazing. It's just like, ah, it feels like just because we need a plot twist, we need something exciting. Okay. Let's make a, this woman that Batman thought he was a loving that she was a love interest of his let's. Let's let, let's make her the villain and Tara, all of a sudden there's a new will. And in the end of the movie, it's just like, oh my God, I know. I really hated. Autumn (38m 37s): I don't, especially a two hour, it'd be one thing. If it was like, you know, 45 minutes, the end of a TV episode, you're like sucked. But two hours in a theater to get to like that kind of a twist, I would have been throwing popcorn at the screen and walking out thinking I just wasted two hours of my life. I could've been like kayaking or something. Exactly. Oh yeah. Okay. Well, I agree that once I I'm glad I never watched dark Knight rises. I never got around to it. I don't think I will anymore. No. Next time. Yeah. Next time I break my leg and I'm tied up in hospital for like months at an and or something. Autumn (39m 20s): I'll consider it until then. Yeah. No, I'm good. No. All right. All right. Good. You're number three then number three. So this one is my last movie and it was one when I watched it, I was like, oh, this is just horrible. So the producer shouldn't surprise you because he has he, after his first couple of movies, he made some flops. So the director is M night Shyamalan. I have him on Melissa as well. Well, you have to see which one he's got a couple of bad ones. I selected signs. Is that the one you picked or do you got a different one? Autumn (40m 1s): It might be. Yes. So this is the alien one where it was a good premise. You know, there's this, there was some good scenes, cornfields, everyone. I grew up in the countryside. My neighbors were Amish. I grew up in cornfields. So I do not find them frightening at all at dark. But for some reason, most of the human population thinks massive cornfields are terrifying at night. They think the woods are terrifying at night. I live in the woods too. So I'm just weird. But I, so there's these things happening. It's a, he's a widower. He's got his daughter and there's this threatening music and weird things happening. And you realize this is this alien invasion and it's sort of tense and terrifying. Autumn (40m 45s): And you're wondering how it's going to go actually pretty good up until that point until you find out, until you find out what defeats the aliens is, water, what is what 90% of this planet is made out of. If you're an alien species that can design faster than light ships, which you attack an alien world, that 90% of it is toxic to you. And then don't even bother throwing in the premonition of the little girl, leaving water glasses all over the house because she just subconsciously knows that her dad will need them to fight the aliens. And then they tie in his wife's dying words that are somehow our premonitions also for what was going to happen. Autumn (41m 32s): I'm just, I'm not, I just couldn't buy it. I mean, really, if you're an intelligent alien raised, you're not going to go. You would at least come in a stupid, a suit that could protect you from the thing that's going to kill you. You can design spaceships. Oh, it was just horrible. I just water. You're allergic to water. Yeah. Great. Jesper (41m 54s): I fully agree. It was number two on my list because I just hated so much. Autumn (41m 59s): So I took all your number two. Jesper (42m 2s): You know what I mean? Exactly. Because of what you say, you know, if you, if you know the water is going to kill you and you're like an highly intelligent alien race, number one, either, like you say, you would wear some protection on number two. Why don't you just pick another planet? Some something that wouldn't kill you. There's kind of, I mean, it makes no sense Autumn (42m 22s): Go to Mars. Jesper (42m 23s): Why do you even want it? Why do you even want invade a planet that kills you? It makes no sense. Autumn (42m 31s): I mean, yeah. I, I, we're only trying to go to Mars, which would kill us. I mean, we're not allergic to anything there, but it has no atmosphere, but we're trying to go there because it's like the only other place we have to go, we don't have spaceships. That'll take us across the, you know, solar system. But yeah, I'm pretty sure there's other places we'd go. It's like, we wouldn't choose, oh, look, there's this planet. 90% of it is composed compost of acidic acid. That's going to totally boil our skin. Let's go there. Yeah. That's a great vacation. Jesper (43m 1s): Yeah. And then we will be like, oh look, there are some people living dead. Let's invade. Then we need to conquer this planet. That will kill us. That's an excellent idea. Oh my God. Yeah. I really hated. Yeah. Autumn (43m 15s): Ah, wonderful. I think that was the first one I watched where I was like, I don't like a nighttime alone anymore. I like the village. I like sixth sense. There was the one with the, yeah. The one with the brittle bones disease that he ended up making into a trilogy. That one wasn't bad. Now I can't even think of the name of it, but Jesper (43m 37s): Mr. Glass or something Autumn (43m 38s): That would, I kind, that was not bad. But by the time I got to signs and like, oh, this is horrible. Jesper (43m 47s): I actually had a, an audio clip for it. Do you want to hear, Okay, here you go. Autumn (44m 11s): You did my homework. Jesper (44m 12s): Yeah. So that was also on my list. I absolutely agree. I hate that Twists that they put in there. That's ridiculous. And also because they just very easily defeat stadiums, then Indiana not like, oh, okay. They can't take water then boom, boom, boom. Then they are defeated. It's like Autumn (44m 30s): The irrigation system. Jesper (44m 30s): Why do we spend all this time building up to it? Then if you can just kill them off that easily, it makes no sense. Right? Waste of time, Autumn (44m 39s): The brain will kill them. As I think one of the commenters, it was one of the famous founders. Like, you know, this guy, the lead character is a former priests. There's all this kind of premonitions and godliness. Well, you know what? God could have just made it rain and no problem. So yeah, it was a bad Plot, such a bad flood. Okay. You're a number three. Jesper (45m 5s): You can, you can, yeah, you can get my number three here. And I think you might be able to get, guess what this one is because the dialogue in this audio clip is sort of pretty iconic, but I can give you another hint that this is the one that I mentioned. I had one on my list with will Smith. And this is, this is the one you ready. Jesper (45m 49s): You know what that is, right? Autumn (45m 50s): Oh yeah, that is, I am legend. And that was my runner up for the list. So that is awesome. Jesper (45m 57s): Cool. It's funny that we have the same thing that annoyed us. That's pretty cool. Autumn (46m 1s): I guess I like this. I love this movie up until. Jesper (46m 7s): Yeah. So in summary, I think most people probably know it, but just summary, 90% of the people's population is killed by a man-made virus designed to cure cancer and then it sort of mutates and then it starts killing everybody. And as a result, you get these, Somby kind of like creatures, which they are quite terrifying. And, and, and it's actually a pretty cool the first half of the movie that that's pretty cool, very dramatic and will Smith character. He is, he's like this brilliant scientist, who's working on finding a cure or vaccine or whatever you want to call it. And he's alone in New York city and is basically just sort of surviving and working. That's all he does. Jesper (46m 47s): And up until this point of the movie, the movie is pretty cool. I really, really liked it. And then he comes across to humans who are actually immune to the virus. So, and this, of course for him as a scientist, this is good news because then maybe he found the holy grail and now he can cure the disease. And it just so happens that when he then brings these people back to his house, this also leads to those kinds of some, be creatures to find his house, which he has like worked for years and years and years to make sure that they would never find him. And now they do and how she's under attack and all that is also fine. But then the twist comes now. Jesper (47m 29s): So because of these two people who are immune, he actually manages to find a cure, but then the houses overrun by these some B kind of creatures. And then he decides to help these two people escape down a cold shoot while he himself decides to stay behind and pull the pin of a grenade and blow himself up, taking all the Sunbury creatures with him. And then you might be wondering, well, why is that so bad? That's pretty heroic. Yeah. But not if I tell you that he could easily just jump down to shoot himself. There was absolutely no reason for him to blow himself up. And the other part is that Autumn (48m 9s): Jumped down the coal chute. Yeah. Jesper (48m 10s): He could. And the other thing is that if you just find a cure and he gives it to these two people who are like, they're not scientists, they have no idea. And then he just sends them off. Like, how does he even know if he wants to cure mankind? How does he even know that they know what to do with that cure? Or will they even be able to find people who know what to do with it? He doesn't know. So it's just like the whole thing. It's like what? So years and years and years to find the cue and then he just blows himself up because of two random people. Autumn (48m 42s): But he wasn't, even though no, I remember saying that at the end, when they're approaching, like they find a as another little town, that's like got a wooden fence. And I'm like, yeah, that looks like it has a top secret, you know, lab Labrador, the moratory where they're going to know what to do to create, you know, spread this cure to other people. And so that's part of the reason it almost made into my list. But then what I didn't know is that the book, this is based on has a different ending it's and the movie completely changes the whole meaning of the book where the book, the, the vampire zombie, like creatures actually have found their own cure. Autumn (49m 22s): And they're not evil. They're basically a better race that it's going to just like we transplanted the new young Neanderthals. They were going to take over the human and humans are a legend. We're becoming something archaic from the past. And we're just fighting for our own last survival. But really, we just need to give up the ghost because we've created something that's better and stronger and more intelligent. And I mean, they have a whole culture, but so that's, doesn't show up in the movie. And I was like, no, they took the book and they completely changed the Authors meeting. Wow. So, yeah, there's a fair. Jesper (49m 58s): And what you just mentioned about the book, that's what makes it cool because then it's, there is an irony in the fact as well that he's been working years and years and years to find a cure for something that isn't about being cured. It's not about being cured, but he doesn't understand that. I know that that's what makes it pretty cool to me. I think the book ending that's cool. But yeah, I D I don't know what the heck they were doing when they made this movie. It's just like, it's so stupid to screw it up like that. Yeah. Autumn (50m 29s): I, they completely changed the character of the will plays. They changed the meaning of the story. They obviously did not understand how difficult sciences, other than it took him years to come up with this cure. And then he doesn't even know if they're going to be able to hand it over to someone who's surviving, who knows how to replicate it. Jesper (50m 49s): It's not like you just put it in like some chicken soup and you're good. Oh, that movie. Yeah. It that's why it was all I was trying to divide between Hancock and that one. And I'm just so glad you came up with iron legends. So I got to have both of them on the list. Oh, cool. Okay. Well, you already took my number too, so I guess you need to do two in a row. Now. I only have my one number one, Autumn (51m 15s): Right? Well, maybe I can grab one of your other ones. So my number two were, well, all of the rest of mine are books. So I know they're not going to be the same as yours. So this is actually mocking Jay from the final book in the hunger games series. And that is because, so this is the end where, you know, the whole story, three books, three movies lead up to the moment where Katniss is sent to, you know, take out snow and everything that's going on. And what happens. She actually gets knocked out towards the end of the movie and wakes up to find out the war is over. So it basically invalidates the entire book where she is. Autumn (51m 58s): She accomplishes nothing. And so she spends all of mocking Jay on her super secret mission to reach the Capitol and kill snow. And ultimately, and all these people die to help her get there. And ultimately she contributes nothing. The problem solved totally without her. And she made as well as stayed home. And what's pissed me off almost more than that, because I had already given up on her as a character. She never really resonated with me. She was too wishy washy, but her sister, a little sister prim, who just wanted to do something important. She trained as a nurse basically to go and help the soldiers who were fighting the battle. And she ends up getting killed. Autumn (52m 39s): And what ends up being a faked attack by the Capitol? It was actually the other side making it look like it was the Capitol. She dies as basically friendly fire, sort of, they kill out a whole bunch of people. It was so unnecessary and pointless. I was just frothing at the mouth. I was so furious. So that's why I made it to number two. It was just her Katniss herself. I've always said she, she has a flat character arc the entire trilogy. She never changes. She never does anything. She never grows into her role or takes control of her own life all the way down to getting knocked unconscious and everything happening without her. Autumn (53m 20s): And she's just the most pointless character. And you're really hope that, you know, book three, the third movie, that something exciting would have happened. And it doesn't, I still don't like her. I Jesper (53m 35s): Didn't read those books. Autumn (53m 36s): Yeah. It was just not worth it, not worth it. So I will stop beating it there. But yeah, it just was a pointless, it has such potential. It was so interesting. And I really was hoping that by the end of the book, she would be like, I'm, bad-ass, I'm going to go and stomp somebody. And it really just never resonated. It never grew into that. She never becomes really a hero in, she sort of stays as a propped up figure. And it's just whatever. Jesper (54m 7s): Yeah, because in the movies, I don't, I don't think that that's the case. I mean, in the movie she takes initiatives and she drives the plot forward. And so on. I don't, at least I don't recall it being such an issue in the movies. Autumn (54m 20s): I feel every once in a while she would pop up with something good, but she was always, it was never an upper word arc. She was always never fulfilling her true potential. She never reached it and it's just disappointing. It was very disappointing. All right. And so we're going to skip right ahead since we did your number two to my number one of WORST Plot Twists. And I think this one, it'll be interesting to see, cause this was a movie, but I always look at it from the book side, but it's actually Harry Potter and the chamber of secrets. Jesper (54m 56s): I would have to say, now I have not read any Harry Potter books and I'm not what's any Harry Potter movies. So I don't really know. Autumn (55m 3s): Okay, so this is not yours. So this is the one where Harry is at the end of book one. So he enters the legendary chamber of secrets and Harry finds them face to face with Tom riddle, the younger version of the evil wizard, Voldemort and Ray riddle sends in a ballot. Basilisk I can't pronounce that, which is an enormous Fang snake after him. And it's chasing after Harry and things seem, yeah, snake giant snake. This is not a snake. Well, that's what it is in the movie. We're not going to question what JK Rowling's uses for her creatures. Jesper (55m 36s): So, okay. So let me, sorry. Autumn (55m 40s): So things are looking really bad for Harry. He's very young. Yestermorrow this is the first year he's at Hogwarts and then suddenly a magical Phoenix flies into the chamber dropping the sorting hat in front of Harry, which happens to hold the sort of Griffin door. So he uses that to kill the basle Lisk. And the Fenix is tears even heal Harry's wounds. And professor Dumbledore later reveals that Harry's loyalty caused the Phoenix to fly to him. But really, I mean, up until this point, there's no mention of a Phoenix it's just and brings the sorting hat. Autumn (56m 20s): It brings the sword that Harry couldn't rim thing to bring himself. It's just comes out of nowhere. If that hadn't happened, Harry would have died. Book one, there goes the rest of the series. Jesper (56m 33s): There's Deus Ex Machina. Again, Autumn (56m 34s): It's such to me, it's one of the worst examples. It's like the whole book wasn't plotted and JK Rowling's realized she wrote written herself into a really bad spot instead of fixing what came earlier. She just thrown a Phoenix with a who brought the sorting hat that was holding the sword. Why would the sorting happy holding the sword? Jesper (56m 53s): Why is, I mean, considering how popular Harry Potter is, why is more people not complaining about this? Or maybe they are just noticed it Autumn (57m 0s): Maybe. And I just, even the fact is Harry Potter know how to use a sword. He can see, you know, how to use one. I just it's so ridiculous that, you know, it would've been better with the Phoenix had caused the bass list to blow up in flames. At least I could have said, well, that made no sense, but at least a Phoenix knows how to you know, like night something. So, Jesper (57m 22s): I mean, short fighting is not something you just do. Right? I mean, you have to train pretty well to do that, especially fighting a monster. Autumn (57m 31s): Oh exactly. I'm fighting something that's already, you know, poisoned you in a cut you in you're already in bad shape, but just because you got a magic sword, you're good to go. Jesper (57m 42s): Oh, okay. That's convenient. Isn't Autumn (57m 46s): It just, Jesper (57m 49s): Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I feel like I can, because this one is not Dave's X McKenna. This is just like screwing with your audience completely OTs. And it's, it's really bad in my view, but I have to admit that I really struggled with finding number one, my one number one entry, because I had to find something that was worse than everything else. And I had to do sort of, I did a lot of research on the internet just to see if I could, if it would jog my memory on something. And then I did find, find something that I actually had completely forgotten about. Oh, but this show that I'm gonna talk about. It's not a movie, it's a TV show, but it is one of my all time childhood favorites. Jesper (58m 39s): I absolutely loved this TV show and I'll play the theme song song in just a second. And I promise you, you will know exactly what it is. Oh, that'll be exciting. But the, the show took the world by storm and anyone growing up in the nineties, they will know what this is. Okay. So I ready for your son clip. Jesper (59m 21s): Yes. Okay. Here you go. Autumn (59m 23s): So the X-Files it's going to be the first Twilight zone. I'm like, no, no. That's a different theme song. So yes, Jesper (59m 32s): I guess all of your clips. I think, I feel like I wait, that's a bit, that's a bit of cheating because you didn't even have some place that I could guess. So I just lose automatically because you guessed. Right. And I didn't even have a chance to compete. Well, there Autumn (59m 50s): You go. Ah, I like this rule. I like this game. I Jesper (59m 56s): Think that's a crappy rule. Autumn (59m 58s): This is like playing dune. Every player has their own strategy to win. I know what my showed is. You have to figure out yours. Jesper (1h 0m 6s): Oh my God. Okay. Well, first of all, I want to say again that I love the show, however, and this is why it made it to number one on my list, because do you know like that feeling of your favorite show? Just being ruined completely. Maybe not completely, but they, they throw in some, some span into the wheel that just like what the heck is going on here. And it felt like it was just because the show creators, they had to do something to try to, I guess, spice things up a bit or something. But I had forgotten about this. Probably suppressed it to be honest, but what I found in doing my internet research, it came back to me. Jesper (1h 0m 50s): So let me just explain. So in season 11, in the very first episode, we learned that you remember the wrist is a mysterious secret smoking man, who is part of the series. He's really weird and you don't really know what he's, what's going on with him. But then in season 11, we all of a sudden learn. In the very first episode, we learned that he actually impregnated Scali using some sort of alien science with the aim to create like the first superhuman child. And we get a flashback to season seven where Scully accused the cigarette smoking man of dragging her. Jesper (1h 1m 30s): And it then becomes apparent that Scalia's son is in fact not molded after all then. So, you know, doing something like this, like four seasons later, it is just such a betrayal to the audience. You know, you for four seasons, you have believed that these two characters has have, they have a son together. They finally got together after all that time, you know where, or there was all this tension between them like romantic tension and so on and so on, they get a child and then four season later you'd just drop a bomb to say, well, actually it's not his child. Anyway. I mean, I liked plot twists. Don't get me wrong. And I can probably even stomach more plot twists than most people, because it does take quite a lot bef before I, it stops annoying me, but this one, it was just like, I really felt like a completely destroyed everything. Jesper (1h 2m 22s): I thought about these characters. And it came also completely out of the blue, like, like the created just that, what can we do to spice things up? Oh, let's throw this stuff in here just to create some drama for the sake of drama. Autumn (1h 2m 35s): Yeah. It's I don't know if they changed writers or what was going on, but I agree. I mean, they betrayed everything that the core essence of what you thought was sort of between these two characters and then it was just like, Nope, Nope, Nope. They're not a happy family. Sorry. Yeah, he don't do that. Jesper (1h 2m 55s): Not okay. It's it's such a betrayal Autumn (1h 2m 58s): And it's funny. Cause you, you were mentioning that reminded me of probably one that would have made my list and it might've even been number one. And that is the ending, the Firefly, the movie that pissed me off so much because they, again, not, not a twist so much as what they did to the characters, they killed off the pilot. They make it through this amazing crash landing and this happens and that happens and he gets spirited like by a piece of debris or something, right at the laughter everything is safe. And I'm like, no, it was such, it was done just to yank at the viewer's heartstrings, especially cause he was married to the, yeah, it was just, ah, there was a lot about the movie. Autumn (1h 3m 44s): I wish I had never watched the movie. Anyone who's a Firefly fan. If you have not watched the movie, don't watch the movie. It ruins everything. I wish it's an exist. Jesper (1h 3m 55s): Yeah. I love the series though. The Autumn (1h 3m 57s): Series is awesome. The movie sounds good. And I can't remember all the characters well to enunciate all the ways that it sucks, but it sucks in very, very, it's cruel to several of the characters in ways that it just didn't need to be the series. That was awesome. Jesper (1h 4m 15s): Okay. Well you said before that the it's like playing risk and you have to make up your own rules for how to win. So I actually just brought another one here because that's my way of winning. So if I can't beat you with five bad things on the list, I'll put six on the list. Autumn (1h 4m 31s): I guess we're both winners this week. Jesper (1h 4m 36s): So just an honorable mention here because some people will have this movie on their list of the worst of the worst. And let me just play you the short audio clip and then I will explain. Autumn (1h 5m 16s): Okay. Jesper (1h 5m 16s): I actually, I only watched it like probably a month ago or something like that. But this movie is called mother and it is staring a starring Jennifer Lawrence. And I included this one as an honorable mention because I'm really, really conflicted about this movie. You know, when I first watched the movie, I was like, what's going on? You know, the, the Mo the longer you get into the movie, the more crazy everything just becomes. And it's like, everything goes into chaos and it's like, it doesn't make any sense. It's like, where's what I, I can't even explain it. It's like, you have no idea what's going on. Jesper (1h 5m 57s): And it just makes no sense. There's all these kinds of people who does terrible things, all of a sudden in, in her house. And it's just like, what the heck is going on. And you're completely confused all the way through the first half of the movie is just like normal mystery kind of thing. Pretty, pretty good, actually. And then the second half is just complete chaos with nothing makes sense anymore. And I won't spoil it here and say two months, because, because people might not have watched it yet. And it was not that long ago since it came on Netflix. So I don't want to spoil it. Like some of the other movies that I've mentioned today, they were all very old movies. So I want, I want, don't want to spoil it, but I just have to say, because after I watched the movie, I was like, when it ended, I was like, I have no idea what went on here. Jesper (1h 6m 42s): So I actually went on the internet and I then didn't start searching for some explanations about what is the meaning of this movie. And then I found the answers. And then when I read those, I must admit that then all of a sudden, I say, ah, okay, I see, you know, and maybe it's just me being thick and not seeing it, but I understood it when I read. And it was explained to me what the point was and everything that happens in that movie, even though it seems completely insane, it actually has a purpose and an explanation to it. Oh. And I'm still conflicted about it because on one end, it's, it's, it's crappy because you, you don't understand what's going on and it just feels like complete chaos. But on the other hand, once you actually read the explanation for it, then it's like, okay, I, at least I can re I can respect what they were trying to do at least. Autumn (1h 7m 32s): So, yeah. I mean, it's good that it had a meeting, but it does sound like it was bad. Something filming, plotting something where they, you need to go and read it on YouTube. They're going to hand out a flyer on your way to the movie theater so that you can understand what you're about to watch. Jesper (1h 7m 47s): Yeah. I don't know be because once you, once you read the explanations, you want to also understand why it has to be shown as very chaotic. It's completely on purpose, but yeah. People can watch the movie if you want. I just want you it's. It's crazy. And then, and then go read about what I would definitely say. Don't read about what the movie is about first, because then it'll spoil everything. What's the movie just what's it. And then read about it afterwards and then make up your own mind whether you think it's just either this, either this movie complete stroke of genius oil, it's complete madness. I don't know. Jesper (1h 8m 30s): It's one of the two, that's a good note to end on. That sounds like a fun twist. Yes. I think our plot twists, we both declare ourselves winners, so, Hmm. I don't know if it was the counselors winners, but also because we actually had a few that we actually agreed on. So it's true. Yeah. That's pretty. Okay. We both win. We're good. I'll say I won and then we can close it with that. Yes. You won as well as I did. That's not what I said. That's what I understood. Jesper (1h 9m 11s): That doesn't count. No. Alright. Well, next Monday, we have an episode with writing a vice for you. We'll discuss how to create chapters that will read us. So see you then. Narrator (1h 9m 22s): If you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating

The best way to learn the craft of writing is to study the best of the best! Join us for our first critical reading episode where we take a look at the Hugo Award winning novel the Fifth Season by N. K. Jemisin. We take a look at what this story does right... and what had us scratching our heads. Warning: there are spoilers if you haven't read the book! Do you agree on our assessment of the book's strength and weaknesses? Leave messages in the comments or join the discussion thread in the Am Writing Fantasy Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AmWritingFantasy/! And don't forget to signup for the Fantasy Map Masterclass to be held October 28. Register at https://ultimatefantasywritersguide.com/fantasy-map-masterclass/. Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday. SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.   Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.  Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (1s): You're listening to The Am writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need an literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now on to the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Jesper (30s): Hello. I'm Jesper. Autumn (31s): And I'm Autumn Jesper (33s): This is episode 147 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And we've finally arrived at our new initiative. So once a month, we are reading a high profile fantasy book, and then we record an podcast episode about it. So this is our Critical Reading of the Fifth Season by NK Jemisin. Yes, I am looking forward to getting into the nitty gritty because I admit some of the aspects of this one or what kind of gave me the idea for the Critical Reading group when we were first talking about it. I also don't know if our listeners will be surprised at our, I think we both have a very similar takeaway from this book, but the Le there's some aspects of this one that are like, oh, that is so different. Jesper (1m 22s): It's amazing. I see why I want to Hugo for this is such a cool book and there's other aspects that well we'll get there all the way. Yes. You're already teasing it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we got make people want to listen to like the heart of this line, which they should be excited. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's going to be an interesting conversation. And of course the, the idea is also here to see if we can try to draw out some things to learn in terms of either D these are good ideas or this kind of stuff you should probably avoid, you know, that kind of thing is what we're trying to draw out of the Critical Reading. Jesper (2m 3s): Exactly. And we'll, we'll get to it, but it's all matter of opinion, obviously. So yes, you can disagree with us. That's okay. It's just our opinions, but yeah, we'll, we'll get to, it sounds good. Well, if we're going to get to it, how are things going for you over in Denmark? Yeah. Well, I don't think I have wage that much to share this week. I'm just attempting to finish up the first draft of book two in our new series. So a couple of chapters to go and maybe I will be done by Friday. I hope don't tell me that. That that's my, well, you should be happy about that or very happy, but I was hoping to finish the edits on book one, which always seemed to be getting pushed back ever so slightly. Jesper (2m 50s): I'm so close. Maybe, maybe the end of next week, but you're going to beat me on the book too. I will catch up eventually. Autumn (3m 1s): Yeah. Yeah. So I, I don't think I have that much other to share this week. It's just been, you know, what do you call it? Like a head in the sand? No, not head in the sand. That's not good, but in the trailer, how do you say Jesper (3m 15s): Clouds? How did the clouds? Autumn (3m 19s): That was not what I was looking for, but nevertheless, I know, I know you were at some FANTASY con or something or Jesper (3m 25s): Yes, I went to a Vermont fantasy and sci-fi con up in Burlington and that was a lot of fun. I was there, there, it was definitely, I think, more, more than 50% Saifai but at the same time, it was so much fun. You would have, I thought of you several times because they had a R2D2 that was like truly moving. You could have mistaken it for the from the movies and the guy who could control it was so good. Like he didn't have to look down at the remote and the remote was so small. You didn't even really notice who was responsible. And this little thing would come up to your booth would be talking to you. And you're like, this is awesome. Jesper (4m 7s): And there was like Ghostbusters, there was a gorgeous Ghostbusters car and some plasma things. But one of the coolest things is definitely the star wars. And there was a lead the 501st Legion for the stormtroopers. So representatives there. And so there's these guys walking around and for full storm trooper armor. And the coolest thing is that they had to go upstairs to the conference room and I happened to be up there and I look out and I see one in the hallway and I'm pointing out to my husband. He ran out there and got a picture just as the elevator doors were closing. It looks so star wars. I'm like, that is the best picture ever. Jesper (4m 47s): So that one framed, it's just always, we're going to take a picture of a storm trooper. It should be in an elevator. It's just so cool. Autumn (4m 57s): I've always loved those uniforms. To be honest, I think I always also in the movies, you know, when it seems like they just look so cool. And, and sometimes I feel like it's a shame that they had just like Canon father in the movies, just don't troopers because they look so cool. Jesper (5m 11s): They look so cool. It's a very cool armor. And I was actually, I mean, I've been part of the SCA, the society for creative anachronism. I used to do that back in my twenties. And so I really enjoy that, but I didn't know there was a 501st Legion of storm troopers. I'm like, dude, you can go and dress up and be a storm trooper. That is cool. Autumn (5m 38s): Yeah. Well, I would rather be the Sith Lord, to be honest, Jesper (5m 42s): Probably I would want to go in as a Jedi master, but I do come from a FANTASY background. I think any Fantasy author should automatically get to be a Jedi or Sith master just it's in our resume. Autumn (5m 56s): See you, you pick the good guys and I automatically pick the bad guys. I don't know what the tails, Jesper (6m 3s): Well, we have to bounce each other's out. It's the force there's balance. Autumn (6m 8s): Oh, okay. Okay. Fair enough. Narrator (6m 12s): A week on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Autumn (6m 18s): One last reminder here on the 28th of October, we are having our very first ever virtual Masterclass. Jesper (6m 28s): I can't wait. It's a Maps. I love fantasy maps. Autumn (6m 33s): Fantasy Maps. Yes. And if you can't make it in person, there will be a recording made available for you as well. So I don't know, I'm looking so much forward to just geeking out for an hour about fantasy maps. This is going to be so awesome. Jesper (6m 48s): It'll be almost better to on, so yeah, it'll be fantastic. Autumn (6m 54s): Yeah. We'll have a lot of fun and I will share some thoughts on map-making that you might not have considered before. So whether you want to learn something or if you just want to, well, kick out with us, we hope that you will join the Masterclass. It is a very inexpensive and it is conducted online. So you don't need to leave your house or anything like that to attend. Jesper (7m 18s): And the fact it's actually a really good deal. It's not only is it expensive, but it's a two for one, you get a second invitation to a second Masterclass as you have to be scheduled. So it's a two for one deal. It's a really good deal. Yeah. Autumn (7m 34s): Yeah. So there's a link in the show notes and you can find the registration page from there and yeah, we really hope to see you otherwise it'll just be you and me Autumm and I think talking, we can talk to ourselves about map-making, but it might be slightly boring. Jesper (7m 52s): Never boring. Autumn (7m 54s): That's true. That's true. Narrator (7m 59s): And onto today's topic. Autumn (8m 3s): Okay. So while we're doing, while we're doing Critical Reading here today, we, I think we better start out by saying that the purpose here is to learn from the books that we read, not to bast them or claim that anything is wrong with these books. Well, with this book in this case, and we should also say that the fifth season is a very popular book. It was awarded by the Hugo award for best novel in 2016. And this means that there's a lot of people loving this novel. So everything we say is personal opinions, and we fully understand that some people will disagree with that. Autumn (8m 42s): And that's okay. Jesper (8m 44s): Yes, exactly. And actually, I didn't realize this, but it's also has won the Sputnik award. It was nominated for Nebula award and it's a world FANTASY award best novel. This, this is a highly acclaimed story. So I think it'll be really interesting to look at it, but it's definitely that's. We want to learn why this is so popular and it's okay to, you know, find things that you don't like about it, but that's why it's a learning experience to find maybe the core features that you love and then, you know, learn from those and maybe learn what you want to stay away from. If you, especially, if people are leaving reviews or comments that you agree with and you can say, well, then I, there are readers who don't want that as well. Jesper (9m 29s): That's great. Autumn (9m 30s): And we gave plenty of warning as well, leading up to this episode that we were going to do this Critical Reading. So we are not going to be careful about spoiling anything here. So if you haven't read the book and you want to, I suggested you turn off the podcast now and then come back to listen to the rest. Once you have done the reading part. So yeah, I might say, oh, I think I will definitely say some sports. Jesper (9m 57s): Yes, I will. Definitely too. And I had written down the exact same thing on my notes for today that spoilers will fall low this. So if you are still reading and haven't finished or plan on reading it, we're going to ruin the book for you. So stop now and go read the, finish the book and then come back and listen and see if you agree. Autumn (10m 17s): Yeah, I think that's a good idea. So I try to divide sort of my notes into some headlines. So I have a headline called plodding, one called magic and one cold world-building and then I have a bunch of stuff underneath each headed air. So I don't know if we just want to start out with a plotting on and then go from there or do you have a different preferences? Jesper (10m 41s): That sounds fine though. I wanted to start with maybe a quick explanation of what the fifth season is. I don't want to do a whole blurb and Sabine Opsis, you know, we're hoping you read the book, so, you know, what's about, but just to set the stage, the fifth season is, you know, we have our summer spring, winter fall. Well, the fifth season kind of lends its name to a world ending event, like a cataclysm, a major earthquake, something that is going to destroy civilization. So it doesn't come every year, but when it comes, it's known as the fifth season. So it's actually a very ominous title once you realize that Autumn (11m 15s): It is definitely so, yes. Okay. So we'll assume people have read it or otherwise go and check the book description on Amazon and UK. You can see what it's about. So should I just get started on the plotting stuff and then we can see where it takes us. Jesper (11m 35s): Maybe we should start almost with the way we would write books and we should start with the world building. Autumn (11m 41s): Okay, fair enough. We can do that. Okay. So I can start out with my first point here. It's, it's a bit of a long one, but let me try to get through it. So first of all, this is from a wealth building perspective. It's incredibly complex with all, like, there was all this seismic activity that is impacting on society and we have slaves, we have outcasts. And to some extent, this book is also about people dealing with being controlled and abused and having a total totalitarian regime. Autumn (12m 21s): And while I, well, I do enjoy the exploration of these sort of horrible things that people are willing to do to each other, as soon as they don't see the other person as a human being anymore, but I'm still wanting it to be more personal. You know, I have to sort of mention, I don't know if it's directly world-building building, but it's in here in my notes. But in this context, I have to mention that the second person present tense that the NKG Emerson uses it's, it's probably the reason why the book won the Hugo war, to be honest, because it's different and it is very well done. Autumn (13m 4s): I mean, don't get me wrong. She pulled it off very, very skillfully. However, none of that changes how it really puts me off. I just cannot get into the story and the characters. I don't know how you feel about that. Autumn. Jesper (13m 20s): I agree. I had a very hard time relating to the characters, especially the main character, which we can get to later. But again, we're not giving anything away, but I wasn't sure if we were not supposed to realize that the older woman, the middle age, you know, the, the motherish woman and the child were the same person. But I mean, as soon as we switched between the two, I knew instantly that the little girl was the same as the older woman who had just lost her son who was the same as the mother. I don't know if it's because we write in a fantasy and it's like, well, duh, or, you know, the idea of the goddess, who's the, the may, the mother of the crone. I mean, it's, it was just so obvious. Jesper (14m 1s): And so I knew the whole time that this is going to be the same person and I still never related to her. But to go on your comment of the second person, I agree. That's what makes this story literary Fantasy is that it switches between a third poison person, point of view, to a second person present tense. And it's amazing that it's done. And it, I didn't notice it as fast as some people who have left comments on what they thought of the story as they read along for today's podcast. So I, it literally, I think I was about a quarter of the way through the book. And I was like, oh, this is a total, this isn't, this is using you. And this is using present tense. Jesper (14m 41s): And this is not what was in this previous chapter. But I will say as a literary story, I think it was done very purposefully because the chapters where the second person is used are the ones where the character has just lost her son. And she goes into shock and doesn't recover for days. And she doesn't really recover for the entire course of the novel because that point of view is always in second person. She is disassociated from herself and her emotions and it works so well. The use of you makes it feel like you're separate from this character, especially compared to the chapters where it's third person. Jesper (15m 25s): And so I think in that way, it works great, but I never bonded with her because this is the adult version. This is the present version of who she is. And all the other ones are memories, which their past tense makes sense, brilliant Writing, but for character, you know, wanting to hear more about this character, I told you I can share it later, but I have a quote who basically her, I grabbed the review and her title to the review are my feelings for this book are complicated leading towards negative. And I'm like, oh, that's I could have written this one. And she too mentions that she couldn't bond with the main character. Autumn (16m 8s): No. And I agree with what you said, because I, I also think that the chose to point of view on purpose to exactly do what you sat there like to, to give you the sense that the character is this issue, this issue associated, I can't even say that now on to tie it, but, but that's definitely the purpose of it. And it works for sure, but at the same time, you know, if you're looking at it from a emotion, emotion perspective, like you want to get in the body of the character, you want to see and feel with them as they go through the story and getting Merced inside the setting and in their lives and all that good stuff. Autumn (16m 49s): Like that's what I enjoy when reading to just disappear into this sort of fantasy world and go with the characters. And that's what you get with the deep point of view. We talked about that in a previous episode as well, but that is what kept, keeps me fully engaged. And it just doesn't happen here because as a reader, I'm also distanced from it because of the second person. And I feel like that's a real shame. And I think Stephen from patron, he also said something that I really felt like was true because he said like, quote, the point of views were a stumbling block for me at first. Autumn (17m 30s): But I read on thanks to you guys with a critical eye so that I could see what made this book tick. And then it hit me the pros, the writing style. It was so lyrical and almost poetic in places. And I think that that hits it home for me because I fully agree. That's also how I see it. It is not, it is more lyrical and poetic than it is storytelling in many places. And for those who love that, then that's great. But I, I, I just can't get into the character and the story you, I just feel almost like I don't care. Yeah. Jesper (18m 6s): And that it is a shame. It is a shame for a book that is, I think, has such potential because the world is really interesting and it sort of relates to what you just said about the lyrical writing. To me, the, I saw it more like poetry, but minimalize, the world is a very harsh world. The book has some really harsh themes things that I don't usually like to think about when I'm reading Fantasy, it's, it's dark, dark Fantasy to me. And the magic is also hard. It's hard. It is basically earth magic. And so you have this hard world it's described very harshly. The language to me is very bare at times, fractured very punctuated. Jesper (18m 49s): It reminds me very much of geology and earth and different types of rock and layers. So it's like this whole thing is designed to be this hard surface as Rocky surface that can, at times it pokes you in it's painful. And that is just as a writer, as someone studying Writing, I'm like, oh my gosh, I want to read this in, you know, a college class. And I would have to break it down and discuss it. But as a reader, I'm like, I didn't bond. I didn't feel it. I didn't buy book two because I didn't have that, you know, warm gooeyness of, oh my God, I love this book. It was more like, I can appreciate this on a literary sense in a scene. Jesper (19m 30s): And I see, well, it was done kudos to you and yeah, good. Don't need to write like that. Thanks. Autumn (19m 39s): No, I agree. And I think I read somewhere that NKG, Amazon didn't intend for the setting to represent our world. And it's like future destruction. I could be wrong about that, but I think I read that somewhere, but one of the characters do call it earth. So there is that, but I sort of quite like the reflections on real life here, you know, whatever, whether the author intended it to be so not, I don't know, but, but I think it is pretty cool to think about, you know, from a climate perspective in a real world and so on. And yeah, I mean, it, it gives sort of the real world angle on thing. Autumn (20m 20s): And I guess that's the kind of thing that also gets awards, right? Because there's more to it than just a story. Jesper (20m 26s): Yes. Especially the end. You know, the last thing that alabaster the one character mentioned is have you ever heard of a moon and this planet that they're on, it's a supercontinent now. So it's like Pangea, but it's called the stillness. And so it's this fast continent and it doesn't have a moon. And suddenly, you know, the last phrase like mentions a moon. So is this future earth that has been torn apart with earthquakes and all this fracturing going on. It's very interesting. And I, over on world building too, I do the previous cultures that are there. They call them the dead sieves. So you see all these ruins of previous cultures and some of them sounded so technologically advanced and there's parts of the book where there's a lot of description and then there's like a dead sieve in the distance. Jesper (21m 15s): And I'm like, I want to know more about the ruined cities. I would have been like hard hat on. I am going to go check it out, but they're basically the culture is, oh, we don't go there. They failed. Screw them. Like, no, I love history. I want to know why they failed. Can't you learn from previous lessons and become something better and not just wipe the canvas clean and start over and fail again. So there was that element too, where maybe it is describing our current world where we're not learning from past mistakes and past things and we're repeating ourselves and this just kind of does it with civilizations. Autumn (21m 53s): Yeah. That makes sense. To me, at least, I don't know if that is the intention, but, but it, it makes sense that it's a commentary on the real world. I feel like, but I don't know. It asks a bit more depth to it, which I actually quite like. Jesper (22m 10s): Yes. And I was definitely teased by the floating obelisks pyramids. I forget how they're described. They have a couple of different ones, but these floating blocks of stone. And I couldn't believe that the, again, that there was very little curiosity about what they were, except for alabaster, trying to figure it out. And a young girl on the cell, in the girls viewpoint. And I get days, I can't remember her name, but her, when she's a child and she's at fulcrum learning to become, I can't even pronounce it. Origin, NIST origin is what they call their magic system. Autumn (22m 50s): I shouldn't going to Jesper (22m 50s): Try. And I had to look up how to say it because it is a world real world. And so I looked up and so there's this girl, and she's curious, but it's like two people in the entire book are curious about these giant floating things in the sky that are made out of stone. And again, I find it, I find the lack of curiosity, which is something that is true for the whole book and especially the main character. She's never curious. And that's sort of against who I am as a person. I thrive off of going to know what things, you know, why things are this way. And so I really think that did not help me relate to the book because there's not a single character who was like, well, why does this happen? Jesper (23m 33s): What happened here? They don't care. Autumn (23m 38s): Yeah. And, and the other aspect of what you're saying, I feel like is, is I don't feel like there's enough at stake for the protagonist. I mean, yes, she is searching for her daughter, but the rest of what happens, like you're talking about the obelisk and all this kind of thing, all of that is sort of dealt with because, well, it's my job. So I'm dealing with it, but it's not, I mean, I just can't help by questioning here. If we, if we're trying to learn from it, what would have happened if the author had found a way to link all of this stuff around the obelisk and all that other stuff closer to the life of the character so that it make a personal difference for the character, whether she dealt with it or not, instead of just I'm taking care of my job, I just feel like that would be a lot more interesting. Autumn (24m 26s): Yeah. Jesper (24m 26s): Yes. I feel like the entire plot, what you have, you said you have a whole section on the plot. I feel like the whole plot revolved around the search, the present search for her daughter, and then the, how she got to where she is now, which is the two past point of views where there was some really cool stuff. Like, you know, the one time, the first time she bonds with an obelisk and a volcano erupts. And I'm still not sure if that was her, the obelisk or alabaster somehow making this volcano up here. And I thought, oh, this is going to start connecting with her. And immediately the next part, she doesn't even really ever think about them again. Jesper (25m 7s): And then when she moves on with the present tense where she has been a wife and a mother in this new new town, and it begins with her losing her son, she's never even wondered about, again, anything that obelisk the things that I thought like, oh, you've connected with an obelisk and it's an alien intelligence and it was talking to you. Okay. Not mentioned for the next 50 chapters. I was like, oh, I want to know more about that. Autumn (25m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. I, I do have some issues then. And I thought as well, if I just say infidel student, know what I'm thinking about, autumn, Jesper (25m 46s): I think they hit you worse, especially cause you're listening. And I think maybe I just kind of skimmed them and didn't realize it was skimming them. But you said that there were more and I realized, Autumn (25m 59s): Well, at least it feels like that to me. I mean maybe, maybe it's just me, but I was listening to the audio book version Al and I, and can I just say, if you haven't, you know, listeners, if you want to check this book out, then Narrator for the audio book is freaking amazing. She does such a good job at narrating this book. So that's definitely worth it. I can highly recommend the, that this narrator she's so good at it, but, but that's, I digress what I want men was just that I noticed in several places, how well, maybe you don't notice it so much when reading and I'm speculating here, but, but because of the very lyrical language, she's so good at writing that maybe you don't really notice that much, but there are quite a lot of info dumps in my view where you just get like a whole section about something that happened like in the older days or blah, blah, blah, something it's like. Autumn (26m 57s): Hmm. Yeah. Okay. But, but if, if it was, if I read it in a book and maybe if, if it was maybe well less written, I could put it like that, then I would just feel like, well, put all of this conversation between characters or something so that I can, I get the, as part of the action of what's happening or characters talking about it and shared that way, because it feels like sometimes there's just a whole sections about old history stuff. And it's like, okay, I guess I don't, I don't know. Yeah. Jesper (27m 32s): One of the reviews mentioned that if they had to read another description of meeting someone on the road and what they were wearing and what their hair color was that she would go and how you knew which part of the continent they were from based on these things, that it just seemed too repetitive. And you know, I, again, I didn't really quite notice that, except I know sometimes I, I would, again, probably just skim ahead a little bit, be like, okay, that's nice. You know, I, I don't need to know all the details. So again, I don't mean to be pointing out the flaws, but I think we're just, we're pointing out the difference between what's literary Fantasy and what is normal, like dark fantasy, what we expect in the two genres. And this is literally sold as literary slash epic slash science fiction. Jesper (28m 15s): So it's, it's a weird mishmash where I think it fits better actually with literary Fantasy than it does with dark fantasy. Autumn (28m 26s): Yeah, I do too, because I mean, as I hinted at just a moment, a Gomez, the writing is exceptionally well done. I mean, she writes really, really beautiful. I have nothing to say against that. It's it's amazing. Jesper (28m 39s): And the world is like you said, it's, Autumn (28m 44s): But yeah, that's what I mean, if that's what you're there for, then it's great. Right. But if you're there for more, like what I guess I could call commercial fiction, you meaning you're there to enjoy a story and so on, then this is not it. Jesper (29m 0s): And I think part of that part is also the not bonding and the plot feeling sort of flat that, you know, all these potential side plot plots could have happened, but they don't because one, the reader, the character is not curious, but it's also the character. What kind of character arc would you call this? I'm thinking it's either a fail or a flat arc. And because she never learned, she never grows. She's not curious at all. She doesn't change. Plot is kind of static. Autumn (29m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to come back to that a bit when I talk about the ending, but I'll save that for a moment, but I did have another comment from, from Steven on Patrion as a last comment, I have at least on my list when it comes to world building, because I think he might have a good point here, but I'm curious what you think Autumm. So he's asked quote, the one aspect of the world building that I didn't care for is that she made up many curse words like rust and rusting. And yet she still used several modern curse words. This is probably nitty nit-picky, but if you make up your own own course words, that fit the culture of your story. Autumn (30m 16s): Why use modern carbon curse words too? So I think he has a point. Does New York, Adam, Jesper (30m 22s): I think he does. I don't know if I would have no, I don't. Can't say I super noticed it. I, I noticed like when she was using rusting and stuff. Yeah. I really, I just, I liked the ones that she made up. Cause again, it fits the world. It fits the culture of, you know, very like metal is not considered safe because it, rusts rust is a bad thing. It's leads to dead sieves, but I don't think I noticed too many modern words and what they were. And so, yeah, I think as a, you know, I would think I would appreciate them more if she, if she had stuck left them in the world that she was, especially if this was not supposed to be a future earth where people are still saying F this. Jesper (31m 4s): So Autumn (31m 6s): Yeah, I get the point that Steven is making to be honest, but at the same time, I must admit sometimes you can just put in the effort. I mean, I know there is a lot of debates. I've seen it in many times being debated whether or not there should be an F-word in a fantasy novel personally, I don't have any problem with it, but yeah, I don't know. I still get the argument. Jesper (31m 30s): I I've used it because it fit, it was actually set in modern day earth. But yeah, I've been, as long as it's not aimed targeted at kids, I don't have a problem with using some of our language because you they're already speaking English. So why wouldn't they have some of the same swear words? I mean, at that point, why are you not making up all the names? Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you making a Calvary word? Just let's keep it simple. Autumn (31m 58s): Yeah, yeah, indeed. Yeah. So that was sort of my notes on the world building parts. And if I just go into, let's say, well, we talked about a lot of the plotting stuff already, but what I did want to mention as well, something very positive because I really like how we are following three women. It's the same person, of course, but essentially there's three women here in different ages, but I really liked that because I just don't think that there is enough fiction out there with female protagonists, to be honest. Autumn (32m 40s): And I really liked that. Yes, Jesper (32m 42s): I actually, it would be, it was funny being female. I didn't even think about it, but you're right. It was nice to have that and have that point of view. And also she was a very capable and determined woman. In many ways she could take care of business. She knew what she was doing. She had when she was younger, she was pushed around a little bit. But she overcame that, I guess, about the only growing she does do. Autumn (33m 6s): Yeah, I agree. The thing is though, as you said before, it's just too easy to guess that it's the same person. I, I also guessed it almost immediately. So, but, but at least, I mean, if we disregard the fact that maybe some people didn't get it, I don't know. But if we disregard that for a second, the fact that there is a plot twist or surprise in the story, which if you didn't guess it is, it is a surprise at the end. I think that is a very good idea to take away from that as a learning experience, you know, to try to have something that will surprise and excited readers once they get to that final pots of destroying, they're like, whoa, you know, that kind of thing is great. Autumn (33m 50s): Yes. Jesper (33m 51s): Agreed. I mean, I will be, I would be surprised if people didn't, I guess I, it's hard to know how you're reading it. If you truly, she does make the settings, she doesn't tie them together at all, really until that kind of twist at the end where you realize it's all the same character, but she also didn't really go out of her way to make it seem too different. Like why they might, you know, hints that it was the same time. So I think it was a pretty easy guessed that they're the same ones. So it wasn't a huge twist, but it could have been, it is always good to have a twist like that. Autumn (34m 25s): But honestly, I think if you did not have the second person, if all of them have been third person limited, I don't think I would have guessed it. Oh, it's because the second person stands out so much that I knew that it has to be linked to the other people in there. And maybe it's something to do with we're different on different in different times or something. I don't know. It was just so different that I knew that it had to link together somehow. And then I could just add the two and two together and then I guessed it right away almost right. But if you had three third person limited point of view, then I might not have guessed it to be honest. Jesper (35m 8s): That's interesting. I still, I think I, cause I had noticed a second person at least consciously at that point. I just, again, I think it's kind of Celtic kind of the made mother and crone, as soon as it switched to a little girl, I'm like, oh, this is her as a child. I just, because she was mad, you know, she had the same power. It just seemed right to me. There was enough of the character in there as a, even a little girl that I'm like, yeah, this is the same one. So, but I think everyone would pick it up in their own path. But because the book like you were saying is it makes you think you start trying to think and solve it pretty quickly. Autumn (35m 44s): I have to ask, how could you not notice? I mean, did the second person is like, it jumps right at you. I mean, it's like, oh, what is going on here? I mean, instantly, I mean, how can you not notice that? Jesper (35m 56s): I don't know. I don't, I was reading it at night and if I was just tired or it was a very good. And like I said, I first noticed that the magic being an earth magic, which I had to laugh because of how many times you've picked on me for my debut novels, elemental magic. I'm like, here's a Hugo award winner. It's only earth element of so, but the harshness of the word and the language and just how everything just felt like geology. And I am a huge geology. Gleek I mean, if you like earth and granted and schist and you know, these big geological terms, oh my gosh, read this book and geek out and no one will know you're totally geeking out over just the geology. Jesper (36m 39s): So I think I was so caught up going, oh, this is so cool. Her language is harsh. The world is harsh. I love how it all ties together. I can't imagine the number of revisions to make it sound this way. And everything ties together that I just never even noticed that it was second person. Autumn (36m 57s): Jesus Christ. You must have been tired. It's like, as soon as I got to, to that in the audio book, it was like, I had to pause it, like what, what is going on here? It was just so incredibly different than weird all of a sudden. And I, and that, that, and that from that point on, I just couldn't get into it. So it did. But I agree with, with regards to the magic system, just to match it, I, I, I would hate to do all that research. She must have been, she must have done in order to pull this off and all this seismic stuff and figuring out how it all moves and all my God. So it must have been a lot of research behind that magic system, but it is very well done and I have to applaud her for it. Jesper (37m 43s): Absolutely. Unless she happened to be, or have the family of geologists. And so she was kind of eking out on it as well. So I could see that, but yeah, you would definitely have to have an interest in deep earth sciences to come up with this magic system and make it, so she talks about flop fault lines and you know, some things can only happen here and only happened there. And probably you're not into geology and not into really cool magic. There's probably going to be times you're like, oh my gosh, please stop describing rocks to me. But I loved it. Autumn (38m 18s): No, I, I too. I did too. I think it, because also I feel like it's a different magic system to what I, at least maybe there's already some magic system based on seismic activity and so on, but I I've just not seen it before. Maybe it exists, but I'm not aware, but at least it was a different enough that I thought it was, it was very cool. Jesper (38m 38s): Yeah, definitely very cool. And I would say, cause I do want to point out and it's, I think one of the things that though where I fell out of the book and what lost me is that is with the main character, the present tense, the second person a son is I think what lost me is again, her arc her arc. I assume it's a flat arc to slightly fail, but she never learns from her mistakes, which again, that would be a grow arc. But I just, there was one point what should have been the climax where I'm sure you remember it, she's on the pirate ship. Do you know, she's had this safe Haven, she's in a really good place, but she's bored. Jesper (39m 22s): And so she goes on a pirate ship and she is literally the one she uses her magic and pokes the spear up to the boat. And she realizes when she does it, that I shouldn't have made it visible because now they know there's this robe earth magic orogeny. And so we're going to basically have to kill everyone. She's the one who realizes it. And literally the next chapter, she goes and stops an entire volcano. No, one's going to notice a volcano suddenly just going away. I wanted to bang my head. And then she goes to alabaster the, probably the most intelligent character in the whole book. The one who's really a forward-thinking he's curious. Jesper (40m 2s): And he, she tells him, you know, he knows that she did this and he gets mildly like upset when she says, oh, I saw somewhere on the shore. And he's like, oh, we should, you know, we'll have to be careful. She quelled an entire volcano. He should have been jumping up and shaking her saying, you just gave away where we are. That was 20 miles from here. And so this leads to the death of her first son. The book starts with the death of her second son. I'm like that. That is when I think I decided I wasn't reading book two was when I read through that climax and I'm like, this is supposed to be the clincher for the book. And I don't care. I'm mad at the character. Autumn (40m 46s): Yeah. I cannot disagree with that. I have some points about that ending as well, but I just want to finish off one thing that Stephen said about the magic as well. First. So Stephen from patron said, quote, the magic system was very unique. Erogeny definitely adheres to Sanderson's loss of magic, where in origin he has limits orogeny has a cost. And the reader is given a clear understanding of how Erogeny is in this world so that he or she has a willing suspension of disbelief. In other words, it's believable, magic fits well into the story and it isn't used always to solve the problem or conflict in the story. Autumn (41m 32s): In fact, for all intents and magic is both the problem and the solution in the fifth season. I think that's sums it up very nicely. Jesper (41m 41s): I think that does as well. And even to add to that, that the magic system has the, the 10 rings the tiers. So you even have, you know, what level people are at and what they can kind of do at those levels. It's well done. I liked that. Yeah. You started off as a novice and what you have to do to advanced and how your, your attachment to the magic grows. Autumn (42m 4s): Yeah. Okay. So let me get to the ending here. You touched upon some of it already. So I want to say a few other things in, in addition to what you already mentioned, because I feel like the ending just leaves way too many things completely open-ended, you know, I don't necessarily have anything against cliffhangers. I know a lot of people do, but it doesn't bother me personally that much, but please, you know, when you write a story, at least give the reader a certain degree of closure, you know, just something to at least give a sense of what is going on here. Autumn (42m 46s): If you can take the stone eaters as an example, you know, by the end of this book, I have no idea what the Stoney ETA's want or how it all sort of links together. I have no idea. We also don't know what happened to Eastern's husband and child. I understand that this is the first book in the series, but it just left me slightly frustrated. And if I'm honest, like, you know, very honest, I have to say that I, I did not read like this book at all. Jesper (43m 23s): I agree with the ending, especially it felt, it felt more like the first third of a novel than the first book in a series. It didn't have that book ending. And I thought it was, we never, in the entire story, we hear that the son has a daughter. I don't even, I'm sure we hear her name, but we never see her now even in a memory. And so it's hard to feel that mother's like she gets distracted. She goes up all over the map. You're reading about two other points of view of her that I never felt a huge bond. She's kind of just like the walking dead and, and just, this is her mission. It's her last living child. Jesper (44m 3s): She will find her daughter, but there's no bubbling passion with that at all. And so I just kinda thought it was really weird that we had this huge pivotal character. That is the reason the woman is, you know, walking forever and what happens to her. And we don't ever see her even in a memory. And that's just seems very strange to me. Autumn (44m 29s): Yeah. So maybe it would be fair to say that on the plus side you have amazing world-building lyrical writing and you also have well sort of commentary maybe, or at least there is even if it wasn't intended by the author herself, but there is something you could use as least as commentary to our real world and the, you know, real situation with climate changes and so on. So, so that's sort of on the plus side and I guess those things and well, not on the plus side, but the second per the use of second person in order to emphasize how the couch of fields dos are sort of the things I, I think is what gives you the awards because it is different and it is commentary on more than just being a story. Autumn (45m 27s): And so that's why you is, she has one do your watch. I feel like, yes, but on the negative side to me, you have a very, the plotting doesn't, it doesn't add up, you know, it doesn't connect. Well, there was several times, like you've mentioned things that happen where it's like, it doesn't really like make logical sense. Why the character doesn't question this or look into this. Or there are several places like that. I'm also very much missing the personal stakes that we talked about as well. And if you're reading it for a good immersive fantasy story, then yeah, that's goes on the minus side as well, because it does just does not succeed on this at all. Autumn (46m 12s): Yes, Jesper (46m 12s): I agree is the, the tropes, the things that we would expect from commercial fiction or that make it immersive and maybe build up the passions just aren't there, but for the literary aspects for how well it is put together and how well it all fits together in a literary sense, the writing the magic, the world-building, the use of second person versus third person it's amazingly well put together and it deserves the award. But if you're working on it from more of a commercial and epic or dark fantasy, it is just not as adhesive. It doesn't have what people are looking for, which is often characters. And your just characters are what make you turn the page. Jesper (46m 55s): And that wasn't what drove this story. And so I think that's a really important takeaway is it's the character. I won't even say it's a building, but I did read some of the reviewers said that the characteristics were just shallow. They didn't have that depth. It always stayed kind of on the surface. And the few times you thought you saw more, sometimes it just the contradicted each other. It wasn't very solid. Yeah, Autumn (47m 19s): Yeah, yeah, no, I, I can agree with those reviewers because that's exactly the, that's exactly the point here. Right? I think everything here depends on how look at it, right? Because I, as a reader, what I appreciate when reading is the good story, the good characters, that's the sort of stuff that I enjoy. But of course, I also have to respect that many other people, they enjoy the other aspects that I had on the plus side just a second ago, Ryan, I'm not going to mention them once again here, but, but those things that I mentioned before on the plus side, some other people, they love that stuff. Autumn (47m 57s): So yeah, I think a lot of it, well, it is like that for any book ever written. Some people love it. Some people hate it. That's the way it is, but I can only speak for myself. And I just, this is not the type of book I enjoy reading at all. And I will definitely, it's a bit of a shame because honestly, when, once I started reading it, I had, because of all the awards, I actually had quite high expectations that this was going to be awesome. And then I felt pretty disappointed to be honest. Jesper (48m 28s): Yeah. And I would also say that I was surprised that this one did not come with any trigger warnings in the blurb, maybe because it's an award winner. But I mean, I have, my books are so much more mild, but I mean, this is literally sexual molestation, Istation, exploitation, the death of children. There are some really horrible dark themes in this one that I was shocked as true. And there was no trigger warning. And I was like, wow, I am shocked. I have a slightly rough sex scene. And I had someone, a reader put a trigger warning on my book and I was like, don't touch this one. This one's going to really hurt. Autumn (49m 7s): Right. Yeah. Okay. We'll I have some final remarks, but I don't do what do we have more now on your note list? Autumn? Jesper (49m 16s): I think that covers pretty much everything. I think I said there was, if you go into there, there's a review by NBS Lee. It comes up as the, the highest ranked critical review. Cause 295 people have found it helpful. And I think it sums up really well. The, the aspects that are so interesting about this book, I mean, she gave it a, she or he gave it a two out of five stars. Just, it's such an interesting complex, highly written book, but it's also not what you expect if you're reading commercialized fantasy or science fiction. Autumn (49m 53s): No, totally agree. Okay. So what I wanted to do to finish off here is I want to take the chance to thank Steven for his input on Patrion. It is just so much more fun when we have people reading along with us here. And of course, if you, dear listener also want to provide input for future Critical Reading episodes and us sort of taking your comments into the actual podcast episode like we did for Steven here, then just make sure to join on Patrion. And there is a link in the show notes for that next Monday. I will have an interview with the extremely popular and successful YouTuber, Jenna Morrissey. Autumn (50m 35s): And we'll talk about using YouTube as an author. Narrator (50m 39s): If you like, what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast, going, stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

Have you ever opened a fantasy book, looked at the map, and wondered what the author was thinking? Jesper and Autumn pull out their favorite worst fantasy maps and a few map pet-peeves in this humorous episode of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. Oh, plus a ghost story and more! Join our Fantasy Map Masterclass at https://ultimatefantasywritersguide.com/fantasy-map-masterclass/! All maps mentioned were chosen in good humor and jest and reflect personal opinions that aren't meant to be mean! Check out some of the maps we talk: Jesper's maps— Wheel of Time: https://casapittura.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-wheel-of-time-map.html Warbreaker: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/annotation-warbreaker-map/ Warhammer: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/ft00oy/made_the_full_warhammer_map_including_the_east/  Eragon: https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/listing/485637759/map-of-alagaesia-eragon-mapchristopher Kushiel-world map: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/118923246398203552/ Autumn's maps— Game of Thrones: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:WorldofIceandFire.png Shannara: https://www.fantasybookreview.co.uk/blog/2012/05/29/new-shannara-map-of-the-four-lands/ Terry Goodkind: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/sot/images/4/45/New_world_map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100308012633 Anne Bishop: https://www.annebishop.com/s.tir.alainn.map.html ______________ Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.   SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.   Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.  Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (2s): You're listening to The Am writing Fantasy Podcast. In today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need an literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now on to the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Jesper (30s): Hello, I'm Jesper. Autumn (32s): And I'm, Autumn. Jesper (34s): This is episode 145 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And we are back with one of our top 10 episodes. And this time we'll each share five fantasy maps that are the worst, and we'll see who can well, basically create the best worst list again. Autumn (53s): And this was an interesting challenge to be describing Maps well on a podcast. So the YouTube listener, I think everyone just go check the show notes. We're going to have a links to some of the Maps we're talking about, but it'll be, yeah, we'll do our best, but I think we can be descriptive enough of what drove us crazy about the map in question. Jesper (1m 16s): Yeah. And we'll, we'll try, we'll try. At least we have 144 episodes behind us. So hopefully we should be able to think about this being an audio medium. Autumn (1m 26s): I know. Compared to some podcasts we're like middle-aged or something we're getting into the here. Jesper (1m 35s): Yeah. Yeah. That, that, when you said that, that reminded me of the, some of the comments on Facebook, around the episode we did about marketing to different generations. And Jason commented on one of the, on that post about listening to that episode, made him feel really old. And I just had to tell him like me too. Autumn (1m 59s): Yeah. When you're aged generation is next to the top, you're like, Ooh, that happened. Jesper (2m 5s): Yeah. Autumn (2m 6s): That's never fun. Jesper (2m 8s): No, no, it's not. Autumn (2m 11s): So how are things over in Denmark though? Jesper (2m 15s): Well, yeah, so this last week has been one of those where it actually started out quite well, but then it just went downhill from there. Yeah. I mean the good news was that I went to that interview to become a referee instructor that I mentioned a couple of episodes back. And then the national football association actually came back and confirmed that I was selected. That was a good start to the week. That is awesome. Of course, I, I still have an exam to pass and I have like tons of homework I do need to do in preparation as well, learning like the laws of the game by heart and interesting stuff like that. Jesper (2m 58s): But it does look like this is going to happen. So I'm pretty excited about that. It's Autumn (3m 2s): Very exciting. Jesper (3m 5s): Yeah. But then it went downhill from day, as I said, you know, so first the party who was selling the house that we were negotiating for, they decided that they didn't want to sell anyway. Oh my God. So I just said that we're going to pull the house off the market. So it was just like a colossal waste of our time, but also money of course, because we actually paid a building inspector to go out and, and look at the house and go through it with us. Right. So totally waste of time and money. But I really think that this, these people selling the house, I think they were just in it for the money. You know, they tried to see if they could sell the house with a huge profit. Jesper (3m 47s): And then when it turned out that they couldn't because when we placed our bit of wee bit far less than what they wanted, and then they decided, well, apparently we can't get this much money for the house. So then we're just not going to sell it. But I, I don't know. I just feel, of course it's, it's there. Right? They, they can do that as they please, but it's really annoying. Autumn (4m 8s): Yeah. You know, that's not the way that, you know, test your house market by like, you know, taking unsuspecting people who are sincerely interested in buying a house and you're like toying with them, you know, it's that little rude. Jesper (4m 23s): Yeah. I dunno. It, it also rubbed me the wrong way to that way of doing that, but, oh, well, what are you going to do? There's nothing we can do about it, but at least now we know it's not going to be that house. So we'll keep looking and searching and figuring out what to do. But what was worse than that was that our youngest son was also tested positive for Corona. Yeah. We talked a bit about it offline already. Autumm yeah. So, but yeah, he's been in self isolation since the beginning of the week with me sort of attending to him. I'm just a room service guy now. Autumn (5m 4s): Yeah. Jesper (5m 5s): Yeah. I think that pot actually, he quite like, so he's like, I would like something to eat and then it was just like me coming with a tray with something, food for him and stuff. So that part, I think he's, he likes, but he's doing all right after the circumstances and he's already starting to feel better and he's, what's like 200 million hours of TV, so we'll see how it goes. But at least I've not got any symptoms yet, even though I'm in close proximity with him, but I just fingers crossed that it'll stay like that. Of course. Autumn (5m 39s): Yeah. So near fully vaccinated. So that's, if you get it, the reason you are vaccinated, that is that it should be, hopefully be mild. So knock on wood that you'll be, everyone will stay healthy and he'll get better. Very soon. I have to admit when I was a teenager, tens, a little young, but when I was a teenager, I think I would have adored being locked in my room with a whole bunch of books and some music kid comic books and been like, yes, just bring me food and T I'll be fine. Just leave me in here for a month. Yeah. Jesper (6m 9s): I think like a 16, 17, 18 year old, you know, they would love that kind of thing I would to have at that age. But Tim, no. Autumn (6m 19s): Yeah, yeah. I was always a drawl or so was all my Crans were with me and some markers. I probably might be fine in there for awhile. Jesper (6m 27s): Yeah. Yeah. True. But yeah, I mean, due to all of these things, I haven't really written much this last week, so I'm not too happy about that, but what can you do that? Autumn (6m 36s): Yeah. We'll get back on track. It's fine. Life happens. Jesper (6m 41s): And how about you? Autumn (6m 42s): Oh, I already hinted. I had a bit of a story. So this is one that there's a lot going on in my life right now. Like everything from a sick dog that has kept me up and I'm hoping I can stay coherent for the entire podcast because I'm unlike, it's like, you know, having a baby every hour and a half the dogs go out. So I'm so tired. This was day four in a row. Parents. I don't know how you do it. I really don't know how you're doing, but I can handle a dog for about a week. And then I'm like, oh, please just get better. But I had an interesting thing that I had to share with you in the listeners that happened as you know, it was just down at my parents' house and that was, oh, it was so much fun. It was great being a kid again and getting to be spoiled with my parents taking me out. Autumn (7m 27s): But the day I went to leave was actually my brother's birthday. And as you know, my brother passed away in 2000. So 21 years ago, he actually would have been 51. And my parents and I were sitting around there's a little island in the kitchen and I'm like, yeah, you know, today was, would have been his birthday. Right. And they're like, yeah, yeah. And my mom said, well, you know, it's funny. It's, you know, it's like, he's there because I'm his youngest son and my one cousin or the spitting image of my brother and all the way down to his voice. And just as my mom was saying that, and my dad was agreeing the two drop-down lights above our head pop like really loud and blue, but they didn't just blow. Autumn (8m 9s): They blew the entire circuit in the kitchen and this is a newish house, you know, it's less than a 10 years old. They've just built it. And so like, we're like, oh gosh, that was, that's quite the timing. When, after my brother passed away, they actually had a whole bunch of electronical issues that happened in our old, old house. So we're like, oh, that was really funny. Ha ha. It's your brother. And so my dad's like, okay, he went on, he went fix the circuit, not a big deal. As we're sitting back down, finishing up breakfast, I, you know, I've got an eight hour drive ahead of me. So I'm trying to get ready to go. Mom's like, oh, I thought it was that light, that blue. I was like, no, it's that light. So they turned back on the lights. They both worked. They didn't blow either light. They're both halogens. Autumn (8m 49s): So when they blow, they're like this pan, the butter Che to change. But yeah, it was a, they turned back on lights and they were fine. We didn't blow either a light bulb. And so we all just, we just kind of sat there a few minutes. Like that's really weird. That's never happened before kind of, you know, acknowledged, Hey, you know, happy birthday bro. And had a few minutes of silence and then we're okay. We gotta get busy today. So I thought that was just so weird. Amazing, Jesper (9m 22s): Which went all out and then you could just turn them on again, as if nothing happened or whatever Autumn (9m 26s): We had to switch the circuit breaker. But for there's no reason. I mean, it's not just that the circuit blue, the lights pop, they won't even do it on the radio. It pops, the loud goes right over my head that I jumped off the stool. It was so amazingly loud, it blew the entire circuit in the kitchen, credible. And then when they turned back, the lights on everything worked fine, no smell of smoke, nothing. The house didn't burn down since then. It was just so strange. Jesper (9m 53s): It was just a sound from beyond. Autumn (9m 56s): Yes. And even my husband's not quite into souls and spiritual beliefs at the moment. And he was like, well, we are all, you know, every S every emotion in your body is done through electrical impulses from your brain. It's like, so yeah. Your brother would screw with the electronics early, like tricks. And yeah. So it was really, it really felt like he was there with us for a moment being his normal troublesome self. Jesper (10m 27s): Ah, that's, that's, that's actually a good story. I like, I like stuff like that. I thought you were like, I really don't know what I think about, you know, the whole souls and spirits and so on, but I'm also not in the place where I could, you know, say that I don't believe in it. I can't say that either, but I'm also not sure if I do believe in it, you know, it's, it's, I think it's very difficult. Autumn (10m 51s): I think it does take time, but there's enough NEF things that have happened in my life. I do believe that there is consciousness beyond our physical bodies. And that's how I put it. Whether you want to call it a soul or what, I don't like the religious context, you know, that, but I do think there's a consciousness that is greater than the sum of our parts and that exists beyond our physical bodies. So yeah, I would be surprised that my brother would hang around for 21 years to drop by on his birthday. But as you know, he had a tragic death, so anyone would have, you know, maybe he would, and it was really interesting though, is just when we mentioned how much my cousin and his youngest son are so much like him at least look like a magnitude totally different. Jesper (11m 38s): And if you should drop by at any day that it would be that day. Right. So Autumn (11m 43s): It would either be the day he died, which it wasn't, it was on his birthday, which yeah, that would be, especially him. And my mom were like, they're two peas in a pod. Their personalities were so similar. They'd each other like five, six times a day. So yeah. I could see him stopping by, on his birthday to say hi to my mom. Jesper (12m 1s): Nice. I like that story. Good story. Thank you. Narrator (12m 6s): A week on the Internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Jesper (12m 12s): So we got our monthly critical reading started didn't we Autumm Autumn (12m 16s): Yes, we did. It's very exciting to get, see people voting on the books and getting into the one we've chosen. Jesper (12m 25s): Yeah, because in the next few weeks, we will do the episode where we will analyze last month book pick, which was the fifth season by NKG Emerson. However, it is now time to pick the book for October. That doesn't seem, Yeah, it's crazy, but that's the way it goes, you know, time flies when you're having fun, as they say, but as a reminder, the way this works is that we've created a poll in the Am, Writing Fantasy Facebook group. And here you can vote on which of three books you want us to read and analyze next month. Of course, we would love for you to read along. Jesper (13m 8s): And if you're a patron supporter, you will even be able to provide us with your views on the book. And we might just share that on air as well. So do you want me to share the books that we have the warming up for Autumm Autumn (13m 21s): Yes. Unless you want to pay some in a chat because I did not grab them before we started recording. Again, I here today, I'm not as busy as my dog, so I did not prepare for that. I prepared for the rest of the episode though. I did do that. Jesper (13m 35s): Oh, well, that's already progressed, so, okay. I'll not hold it against you then. Okay. The books that we pick this month, they is the winner of the world Fantasy or what it is called, which mark by cl Polk or another winner of the world Fantasy award, which is the sudden appearance of hope by clear north, or finally a third winner of the world FANTASY award, yet this kind of, kind of a T theme going on here. But the final one that you can vote for is Jade city by fondly. Jesper (14m 15s): So the voting has already started in the Am, Writing Facebook group. So either go there and place your vote, or if you want to become a more integral part of the process, you then go and join on Patrion. There's a link in the show notes for that as well. Autumn (14m 34s): Sounds good. I think we should give the Patrion votes, like double points because you know, they're special, important. They're more important. And I think if you are, I vote, cause you know, I have a vote on this one that we should get like 10 points, but you know, that's my opinion. Jesper (14m 49s): Well, we are not allowed to vote. This is the, the people voting. It's not us voting, Autumn (14m 54s): But we're readers too. Jesper (14m 56s): Yeah. But they, they force us to read Autumm and then we just read what the people want us to read. That's the way Autumn (15m 2s): It works. Well, it could be a worst job, Jesper (15m 7s): But the speaking of patron, by the way, we also want to give Nancy Hurst a huge shout out. Thank you so much for becoming a patron support, Nancy. It really makes a difference. And well, without people like you, we would probably not keep the podcast going for very long. So Autumn (15m 24s): Very true. Thank you, Nancy. And welcome to Patreon. We appreciate your support. Jesper (15m 34s): So before we get into this, we should probably say that where we share maps that were actually created for books or games or movies or something like that, the intention here today isn't to hate on those maps. So everything we say in this episode is meant as like humoristic views on Maps. So there are probably those of you out there listening who might like some of the maps that we are going to mention and you know what that is perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it. So basically just take everything we say from this point, onward as entertainment, rather than critical assessment of the Maps. Jesper (16m 14s): Does that sound fair? Autumn (16m 15s): That sounds very fair. You know, this is definitely, it was a pet peeve or something we point out it's a personal opinion. Other people may totally disagree and that's fine. We're just looking at it from our own perspectives and to have a little bit of fun and poke some fun at Maps because you know, if you want to pull up one of mine to poke fun, please have at it. I'm fine with that. Jesper (16m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, as I said, this is just entertainment guy, so it's a, it's a, one of our worst, top 10 lists. So we wanted to talk about Maps. So yeah, essentially we have to find some maps that we don't quite like. So be it Autumn (16m 51s): That'd be it. I think we manage. Yeah. Jesper (16m 53s): Yeah. So we should alternate, like we normally do Autumm and, Autumn (16m 59s): But I remember, yeah, I remember last time probably because I did the post-production recording and stuff that I went first, last time. So I think it's your turn to go first. Jesper (17m 13s): Okay. Okay. Yeah. One day I'll make up my mind if I prefer to go first and last, but I still don't know. So maybe it's actually good thing just to get the decision made for me. There you go. Autumn (17m 25s): Well, I was happy to do that because as we've said, this is a partnership, so it's good if we both make decisions occasionally. Jesper (17m 33s): Yeah. I think this is the fourth time you pointed that out today. So I don't know what's going on. Something is going on. Autumn (17m 42s): I'm picking idea today. It's fun. Jesper (17m 45s): Yeah. Yeah. You think it's fun? I do. I like when I pick on you Autumm but the other way around, it's not so fun, Autumn (17m 53s): But these lists are all about, you know, giving, giving back as good as you get. So here we go. Jesper (18m 1s): Okay. We'll I can start with my number five, but I must also say that it felt a bit different making this top 10 list compared to some of the other ones that we've made in the past, because it's, it's a bit more like, for example, the last one we, we made with like the worst superpowers, you know, some of it was really wacky and stupid and fun. Yeah. Whereas this is a, this is slightly more serious in the way that it's, it's a bit like, that's true. A little opinion, like you said before, it's not like fun like that in that con in that sense that it's just silly and stupid. Right. So, yeah, but let, let me get going here. Jesper (18m 40s): And number five is not the worst map that I've seen, which is also of course, why it's number five rather than number one. But I decided to include a map, which some people might disagree with me about, but that's okay. I can take it. Excellent. But it's the, it's the map for Wheel of Time. Okay. Autumn (19m 9s): Well that's the famous one. Jesper (19m 12s): It's very famous. Yes. But I've always found this map quite boring. No, it's just like, it's one huge large chunk of land. And then there was one of my pet peeves and as well, you have the 90 degree angled mountain range. Again, I freaking hate those. What I do. Why do they keep popping up on maps all over the place? I don't understand. Mountains will never, ever form like that. So when I see it, I instantly, I mean, seeing, like pulling my head hair out, like why do you do that? Please stop. Autumn (19m 50s): Yeah. It's sort of magic. That would not, I can't imagine how that would happen in nature. So I do agree with you in fact that I might be mentioning something about Maps that do that later. Not quite on the Jesper (20m 2s): Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, because I mean, I could also have used the map for the Lord of the rings, but we have sort of pre-agreed ahead of time that we were not going to put that on the list because if we did, we would probably both have it on the list. Not because Lord of the rings is a Batman in general. I actually quite like it, but it's just the mountains around more, or that it's the same issue again here. And I don't like, I mean, Tolkien did have a reason for it. We won't get into all of that now. Why, why, what Tolkien had a reason for it and so on, but it's just like, come on. I mean, I don't know if it's because Tolkien did it and then everybody started copying or something. I don't know, but it's, it drives me insane. Jesper (20m 44s): And then there was also one this, a Wheel of Time map, like in the bottom left corner of the map, there was some cold something called the wind bites, his finger. And it's sort of like, it almost looks like a small islands that forms a finger or something, but it just looks really weird. So we'll put a link to it in the show notes. So have a look yourself, but I don't know. I just don't, I don't like it. It's not my favorite map. It's not the worst I've ever seen, but it's certainly not my favorite. Autumn (21m 16s): Yeah. I, And I, I picturing it. It's been a while since I've seen that one, but I do. I do know you mean it's never stood out to me as a great X for such, for a book that has become sort of like a hallmark of a fantasy series. It's kind of a map. I will agree with you. They really studied. I never read the, I haven't read the books. I will admit it. I've never read the Wheel of Time. It's too long for me to even contemplate until I like, until I'm locked into a room because I have COVID and someone's serving me to you and then, or I'm locked onto a desert island, then I'll read the wheel of time until then. I'm a little busy. Autumn (21m 56s): There's a lot of books. Jesper (21m 58s): Yeah. I, I got to, I got to book six. I think it was in the night gave up. Indeed. It's just, I mean, I understand the people who like it, but just for my taste, it is way too slow paced. It's just like, nothing happens. And Sunday on book, after book, after book where it's just like, yeah, I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before, but I specifically remember some, some places where you spend an entire chapter where nothing other happens that they need to exit attempt and it takes them all chapter to exit the tent and it's like, come on, move people. It drives me crazy. Autumn (22m 34s): Okay. I'd have to be really, it'd be at the bottom of my book pile and I was desperate for me to get through all of them. Then that's really tough. Yeah. Jesper (22m 43s): I gave up. But yeah, maybe a you're hinting at somebody who needs to serve your tea all the time. And I don't know what you were hinting at there, but maybe you read it one day when that happens. Autumn (22m 55s): I will hope so. Considering my husband is still currently I'm away in may and I'm, he's not kidding this hint. So let's just be in the dog. Are you ready for my number five? Okay. Jesper (23m 9s): Yeah, let's Autumn (23m 10s): Go. This one, there is an example later in my list, so I'm not going to share it now, but this is more of a generic, one of my pet peeves. And it's pretty easy to explain, but names of places that are in a font that is nearly illegible, even when it's at full scale, you know, those big, fancy Fantasy fonts. And then you take that and you shrink it to fit it into like a Kindle. Why, why, why, why do you even bother naming places when you cannot read it? Unless it is full poster size and then you maybe have a magnifying glass. It's just, I don't know. That gets my, just gets me every time. Autumn (23m 50s): I'm just like, why don't you do that? The terrain is already so difficult and you have trees and you have this, and then you have this loopy Fullan that you're like, I don't even know what that says. And it's an Elvish. Y Jesper (24m 5s): Yeah. I know why I know what you mean. I, I like to enjoy Maps, you know, I, I, I'm such a FANTASY map and she asked that I love looking at the maps and I can actually spend quite a lot of time just sitting there looking at all the details. And then if there's something I can't read or I can't see what it is, it's quite annoying to be honest. Autumn (24m 23s): Yeah. And especially, I think a lot of authors, you know, if they get a nice, sweet, done Fantasy map, or if they do it themselves and they use these fonts, they forget that when it's on your Kindle it's or even when a paperback book, I mean, we're talking about a very small image, three inches by four inches. Maybe it's tiny. It should be very clean. And yeah, I've seen some maps that you just kind of look at and you're like, wow, I don't even know what this is trying to tell me. Why did you put it in there? And I think that's just such a frustration and that's sort of why it's a pet peeve. It's just like this, isn't it. You don't want to open it up and be like, oh, I love maps. Maps are awesome. I cannot read this one. Jesper (25m 5s): I did indeed. Exactly. I'm with you there. Autumn (25m 10s): Okay. Well, oh, we're agreeing. So I'm winning. Awesome. Jesper (25m 15s): Oh, well, I don't know. Well, you agreed to the Wheel of Time as well. So we even at least now Autumn (25m 21s): Good memory. I was trying to trick you there. Jesper (25m 27s): Okay. Well, my number four, I might even get even more people on my back for this one on one another. Autumn (25m 33s): It was exciting. Everyone pick on Yesper with me. No. Jesper (25m 36s): Yeah. I already mentioned Wheel of Time with some people probably love, so that's a problem, but now I'm going to go all in and get even more people upset with me because now I'm going to mention one of Brandon Sanderson's maps. Oh, you're Autumn (25m 50s): Just asking to get yelled at. Jesper (25m 54s): I'm asking for trouble. Autumn (25m 57s): Oh geez. So what is wrong with one of Brandon Sanderson's Maps? Jesper (26m 2s): Well, this is a, this is the one for war breaker and it's basically it's in the city. So it's a, it's a map of a city. And, And in my personal opinion, as I said before, I love looking at maps, so they should be visually appealing and they should look good in my view. And it should be something that readers want to spend time enjoying. And this one is not, I mean, it's black and white. There's not necessarily anything bad about black and white maps. That that might be okay. In my opinion, again, I do like colors because I think it adds a lot more to the map, windows colors on it, but it's just like the way that the city has been drawn. Jesper (26m 44s): It is it's hand drawn, but it's extremely busy. It's just like houses all over the map, everywhere there's houses. And I get that this probably reassembling what a medieval city would look like, but it's just way too busy. And I mean, have a look at it. I'll, I'll play, there'll be a link to that one in the show notes as well. But I have a look because I just, yeah, I, I think, you know what I mean when you see it. Yeah. Autumn (27m 17s): I have seen this one. I think it's, it's drawn 3d, but not from the top. More like, kind of a sign. And so you don't really see the streets. I mean, it doesn't make, Jesper (27m 29s): I was just everywhere. Autumn (27m 30s): It doesn't help you. It doesn't work well as a map, it works better as like I drew a picture of a city. It's not really a map. Jesper (27m 40s): No, I know. Well, you're going to have a map of a city, but then at least try to reduce the amount of houses in there and make it a bit like something that is, you have some other things than houses to look at something that sort of makes you want to investigate all the parts of the map and look, oh, look over there. There's a small fountain. Or, you know, just make it a bit more appealing and interesting instead of just 200 million houses stacked on top of each other. Yeah. I don't, I don't like it now, but yeah. So now, now I both assaulted. We love time and wall breakers go from here. Autumn (28m 18s): And you're only at number four. I can't imagine what we're going to go from here. You know, if you touch dragon lands, people are going to like Flay you and bonfire you or something today. Jesper (28m 29s): I can promise I'm not going to go there. Okay, Autumn (28m 31s): Good. I just want to keep him safe. Right? Well, my number four is sort of what you've already hinted at. You had mentioned perpendicular mountains, but for me, I put number four as impossible terrain, as in not magical, but terrain like floating islands, that's fine. It's magical. But I mean, illogical cannot happen like rivers flowing through or mountains, which I have seen or around legs, which would not happen mountains. Like you mentioned, that are perpendicular or just randomly place. Like someone dropped a bag of mountains right. Onto their map. And it's scattered all over our, this is a fun one, which I don't know how many people have noticed continents that are perpendicular to each other. Autumn (29m 13s): And my example for this is game of Thrones. Have you ever noticed that was stereos? And now I can't even remember where the three McKee are. They're like completely right angles to each other. Jesper (29m 24s): They are. Yeah. The other thing is with the game of Thrones Maps, the other thing is that it doesn't even look very good. It looked just looks weird. It does look weird. Autumn (29m 33s): I Jesper (29m 34s): Mean, if you cut out all the, basically, if you think about the game of Thrones intro thing, you know, when the camera goes around the map and all that. Yeah. That looks cool. That looks extremely cool. So as long as you're focusing on the upside down map of England, which is basically a game of Thrones, if you will, if you focus only on Westeros there, then that looks good. Actually in my mind, I think that looks perfectly fine. But then when you take all the, I also don't remember the name of it, but all the lands with the Dothraki and all that up there, when you put that onto the map as well, it just looks weird. Autumn (30m 11s): It does. It does not. It's too. It's like someone put England made it the same size as all of Europe and just put it at the end outside of Portugal. And it's just like, that wouldn't happen. How would that happen? I don't get it. But, and even that, I actually have another example. So I didn't think about this cities. They don't bother me so much when they kind of seem to be somewhere where maybe a city wouldn't exist, because that gets to be curious. I always think, well, the author had a reason for putting a city there. So maybe, maybe not. I always give them the benefit of the doubt. So I think maybe there's a story I'm willing to at least hold my criticism of cities just appearing in the middle of nowhere. Autumn (30m 55s): Maybe it's an ancient ruin. And I just don't know that by looking at the map, but have you ever seen Terry Brooks' Shannara map where there are rivers that literally go nowhere? I mean, they flow and you can see them come together, these tributaries and they flow off and they'd go into other tributaries. It's like an Esher sketch of a Map. IBD stylistically. It's like, it makes me want to, like, I want to make an extra sketch of a, a fantasy world. It makes no sense. So I will link to that one in the show notes, but I looked at that and I think this is my example, too, for like a font that you're like, why did you use that font? But then you start looking at the rivers and they're like, going up, mountains are going, they're just lakes. Autumn (31m 40s): They flow into lakes and the number out of them, which can happen, but not like six times on the same map. It's just, just, it's one of those ones that is a hydrologist. You know, I studied environmental science and I'm looking at this going, no rivers don't go together and then flow apart and just branch off and disappear into the wild. It just doesn't make sense. Jesper (32m 7s): No Am yeah. Well what you're saying, not with rivers, but this stuff that doesn't make sense us. So actually my number three pig as well. Autumn (32m 17s): Oh, go figure we, again, we met, if, if the listeners do not know this, we kind of met because of Fantasy maps. So I would have kind of not be surprised that we have some of the same things on our list of pet peeves. Jesper (32m 31s): Yeah. It's also a pet peeve, but I have a concrete one here though for my number three, but basically again with things that doesn't make any sense. Right. But here we're back to mountain ranges again. So my third pick and w I dunno, tell me why do we keep seeing this problem with mountain constantly? I don't get it, but this third one on my list is the world of Warhammer. Autumn (32m 56s): I Jesper (32m 56s): Don't think I've seen this. So this is a, like a miniature war gaming setting in the middle of the ocean. In this map, you have a very large circular island and yes, you guessed it. There's mountains formed in a freaking circle. Autumn (33m 14s): Volcanic. It could be a massive caldera. Jesper (33m 18s): Yeah. This is where the Elsa lives in the setting. And it's been a long, long while since I read the law for the setting. But if I remember there is a reason for it, but honestly, I can't quite remember. And also I don't really care because it really rubs me the wrong way to see mountain shaped in a circle. It's just like, what the heck is this? Autumn (33m 41s): Yeah. Short, if I had massive caldera, like, you know, center Rini, volcanic kind of area. Yeah. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense. Ambassador asteroid impact that kind of thrust up the land on both sides, but in general, no mountains don't form right angles. And they don't form circles. You have a very weird planet if they do. Jesper (34m 3s): Yeah. And what even makes this map even worse than whites. Number three, I suppose, to number five, it's also had weird mountains is that it's like, take a look at the Warhammer Map. We'll link to it and shown it as well, but take a look at it and then tell me that it doesn't look exactly like a copy of, you know, you have north and south America, there's Russian as Africa. You even have Asia and Australia. The difference is that in the middle of the ocean, there is this circular Elvin kingdom with circular mountains. But otherwise everything else is exactly like earth. I mean, Autumn (34m 39s): Took the Atlanta. Smith's stuck it in the middle of the Atlantic called it where the Elvis came from and called it a new world. Jesper (34m 47s): But he couldn't come up with something just a bit more original than that. I just have a look at it. It's insane how much it's just a copy of earth. Autumn (34m 57s): That is funny. And that's actually a nice segue into my number three, which is different for this one. I know we Jesper (35m 4s): Had coordinated this. Sometimes Autumn (35m 6s): It all works out. No, it's always surprising when we're on the same stream of things, but yeah, it happens occasionally. So this one, Jesper (35m 18s): Occasionally I like the passive aggressive, common. It happens. Okay. Finally, Autumn (35m 27s): I'm being sarcastic. I think what happens every time we talk, we're like, oh yeah, I was already thinking of that easiest part. However, I will tell people that I let them think that we're constantly combating. Like we are on our top 10 lists. So my number three is, have you ever, it's a Terry Good kind Map and not to pick on him because it's a good, he's a good author. But this example is just a good, good example of one that I find so frustrating. And it's sort of what you just said. It's so generic that it can be anywhere or any continent, which makes me wonder, you know, how good is the story? Autumn (36m 7s): How original is any of this? When you look at it and you go like, oh, that's earth or, oh, that's a continent with an ocean. And it's like the Westmoreland's the north valley. Oh my gosh. Please make it interesting. Make it original. Don't just make it. It looks like you took a piece of the Gulf of Mexico and a little bit of Texas and gave it a different name and put it on a river and called it somewhere. You Know, it's horrible. Jesper (36m 40s): All right. I don't think I've seen that one too. Autumn (36m 45s): It's just it's so it's not in color. It's just, I'm like a antique paper in black. So black and white basically. And it's just line drawings and it literally just looks like anywhere. I, this is one of those ones where I think you've seen the world, the map, they call it a cliche Ville or cliche land. That's actually one of my favorite Maps because it is so well done. And it is funny, hilarious. Yes. The dragon tail islands, you know, it's, again, the setting that every Fantasy map has these exact same settings. And it's hilarious to look at, well, this one is sort of the same way, but not done to the gorgeous color quality of that one. And it's just black and white and you look at it and you're like, it could be Mexico. Autumn (37m 29s): It could be a bay in Alaska. You know, there's so many places that you're like, it's like, you know, James bay upside down it's yeah. It could be anywhere. And it doesn't inspire any excitement. And you look at it, you're like, I don't know where I am. Why did you make a map of like my backyard? I don't care. Jesper (37m 50s): No one of course the major difference is also that the, whether it's supposed to be a serious map versus one like cliche, it's just the cliche map world. That's meant to be just fun and goofy. Right. And there's a big difference in that. It is. Autumn (38m 6s): Yeah. And yeah, the cliche one is definitely it's done so well that I would actually buy it as a post or it is just, it is beautiful. And it is funny. It is so funny. So I should find that and I'll try to link to that in the show notes as well. Jesper (38m 20s): Okay. Good. All right. Well, moving on to my number two, so it's starting to get more and more nasty now, but my, yeah, my number one is even worse, but this one is, it's not far off what you were just talking about in the sense that following the same, like, well, yeah, well this is like somebody sat down and then they sort of brainstormed like, oh no, I can't do what I normally find on a Fantasy map. And then they made a list, like a checklist of that. And then they started just checking them off one by one. I put this on the map, put that onto Map, everything that, you know, just one of each. Jesper (39m 0s): So this is, this one is the fictional world of Aragon. And this is the map that they used for the inheritance cycle novels. And basically it's like, you find a volcano check, you find a grant lake check, then the awesome islands off the coast, check again, a single forest. Good. And then next to that, there was next to the forest is a single desert Check. So I might be, I don't know, it might be a bit harsher, but I really don't like the map. And also because they've placed the desert right. Smack in the middle of the entire map and it just looks really weird, but I don't know, sorry if somebody likes this map, but I'm just not a fan of, it just feels like a checklist map and then just smashed together. Jesper (39m 51s): There you go. Here's a Fantasy map and yeah. I'm not a fan. Autumn (39m 56s): No, no. That sounds like my impossible terrain. Why is there a desert next to a forest? I mean there's Jesper (40m 3s): Yeah, those, this doesn't D this one is such, well, there's a huge forest and then a desert right next to it. Autumn (40m 8s): That's just strange. I mean it, yeah. Where you would find that in nature without grasslands or a mountain, a rain shadow or a high plateau to cause lack of rain. I don't know. That would drive me crazy. I'd be looking at it, going through any classes. So I'd do all of the, I think it would drive me insane. Yeah. That doesn't sound good. One. I'll have to check that one out. I don't think I've actually seen the map. So that one will be interesting to take a peek at. Jesper (40m 38s): Yeah, yeah. Have a look at the link in the show notes. Autumn (40m 42s): Well, my number two is one that I, there are some examples out there, but I couldn't find a good one that I wanted to link to. So I'm just going to describe it. And that is Maps with place names that are named descriptively based on like, if you were holding the map and looking down at it and the people on the ground would never be able to see that pattern or the places where it is a fast continent with areas separated by large obstacles. You have the names all sound the same. So there's kind of two different maps there. So it's like, you know, this massive continent, the size of Asia and something at the far east and the far west sounds like they're from the exact same culture that always kind of like, you know, they should be different. Autumn (41m 24s): I want to see, I want to see some representation of different cultures and different types of people in climate, on your map. Because that makes me curious to know what's where I love traveling. That's why I look at these maps. I want to know what's going on, but yeah. But then you have those other maps and one of the examples, and I couldn't find an actual link to, it was a map that, you know, kind of looked like a body. And so there was like, the Heartland was literally where the heart was and the Headlands on the Jesper (41m 51s): Right. Yeah. Autumn (41m 52s): No, no, I don't care if it looks like that, unless they have hot air balloons or were named by a God or goddess, they don't know. It looks like that. That's just silly. So it was sort of like your one, your number of five, you mentioned something about the finger islands or something. It's just, no. So sometimes if there's a mountain and you can stand there and look off and say, oh, they're like fingers and you name it that way fine. But in general you don't go, oh my goodness, this looks like a Lotus flower. I'm going to name this Lotus island. Well, you don't do that. Jesper (42m 30s): No, no, it doesn't. It definitely requires that you get fire away from, from the, If I above the land and new, you can see it from distance. Otherwise you would never recognize patents like that. No, Autumn (42m 42s): Just drives me when I look at it. And I'm like cute though. It's like the Nazca lines, you know, we're going to, we have been debating how the Nazca lines were made and who they were made for, for centuries now. And it's just like, you know, don't do that to your readers. We don't want to, you don't want them to be confused over the map and why you named it? The elbow when no one knows it looks like an elbow. Jesper (43m 6s): Fair enough. Yeah. All right. Okay. Ready for the worst of my list here. Autumn (43m 11s): Yeah. This is going to be exciting. I want to hear what is the worst map you have found out? Jesper (43m 16s): Oh my God. So the number one on my list made it here because it's just too lazy for my taste and I'll start explaining why, and then it's going to sound pretty much like something I already said, but then there was a kicker at the end. Okay. So I mentioned before how Y hammer, the Warhammer map is just a copy of earth. Well, this one is basically the same, but it's just for Europe. So this is the, I think you pronounce it, crucial world map or something like that. We'll, we'll link to it in the show notes as well, but there are three trilogies written in this setting. Jesper (43m 58s): And while I do understand that they are supposed to be a fictional version of medieval, medieval, Western Europe. So I do understand that, but honestly, it just doesn't cut it for me. When you practically just take a map of Europe, slap some new country names on it and call it a day. That's not a fictional Map. No, I mean it, and this is where, I mean, like, that sounds very much like what I just said about Warhammer, because it's basically the same thing. But if you are naming the country on your map, that everybody can see when you know Europe, you can see to this Denmark and I'm from Denmark. Jesper (44m 41s): And instead of writing Denmark, you call it Joplin. And as a Dane, I can tell you that a part of our country, the part of our country that connects to Germany just south of us is called Joplin in real life. That's what it's called. So for a fictional setting, which I'm supposed to immerse, be me, it Mustin, don't freaking put names in there that is called in my national language. That's the name of the place that is already fucking sake. It's horrible. Autumn (45m 12s): That's that is, that'd be like me. I just wrote the tainted face series and it takes place in this world in this time. But you know, a different version where there's Faye and magic. And if I had included a world pap and why bother, so, yeah, and then two per se, it's fantasy and use real place names. But Jesper (45m 33s): I can imagine, I don't, honestly, I have to admit that I don't know what nationality, the author of the crucial series, what nationality it is, but I can imagine, and I might be a mistaking. And if I'm mistaking, then I'm apologizing in advance. But I have a feeling that it might be somebody who doesn't know the geography, maybe that well of Europe. And then they'd just think like, Jutland, that sounds like some FANTASY kind of a war. Well maybe, but it's, it's a real name of a real place. So at least do some Googling first and figure out if it's a real name before you put it on the map, Autumn (46m 10s): Or at least if you're going to, you know, if you're going to call it Fantasy, don't stay away from real-world words. If you found it. And you're like, oh, no one uses that anymore. That was the historic name. Just, just stay away from it. It's not worth it. Yeah. Jesper (46m 24s): And if you then telling me that the author actually didn't know that this is the real name and then put it on the map. Well, then I'm going to tell you, then it only makes it even worse because then, then you knew about it. And then what the heck are you then doing? Are you, it makes no sense to me. Autumn (46m 41s): Yeah. That's again, to me almost like lazy world building. If you're going to create a new world and you're going to call it a new Fantasy setting, make a new map. And if you have a hard time coming up with Fantasy images or a Fantasy landscape, like you just want to write a story and you want someone to hand you a map. There are programs and people who can do that for you. That is not a problem. Okay. I just found out how to randomly make a FANTASY map in like 15 minutes, I was like, oh, this is too much fun. It has, it just creates random things. I mean, it's, it's 3d and it looks pretty and you can start creating a story based on just something, something on someone hands you it's better. The world-building and mapping being is not your forte. Autumn (47m 21s): Get someone to do it for you and give you a hand. All right. Yes, please. You ready for my number one? This is a good, a good lead in to what my number one is because it kind of shows that I am a graphic designer. I have to admit. Okay. So my number one is Maps that looked like you sketched it while you were potentially drunk or you had a migraine and you just wanted to call it done. It's good enough. And just hate that. So there are software out there. There are cartography programs. There are graphic designers. There are people who can make you even a simple map that is quite lovely. Autumn (48m 3s): It can be black and white. It can be color, but don't just do these like little lines sketches. And I actually have an example for you. Have you ever seen an Bishop? She writes dark Fantasy and she has some of the worst Maps I've ever seen. I mean, Jesper (48m 22s): If there's any inhibition there that just got to come and murder, you Autumn (48m 26s): Let me know. Or they might agree. I mean, they're just, they're line drawings. They're just black and white, but there's just, there's no passion to them. There's no interest to them. They're so simple. There's simplistic. There's so they're painful. They're really painful. It's just, you look at it. And you're like, what is the point? Yeah, I will, you will. I will link to it in the show notes, but you look at it and you're like, what was the point of including this? It's just, you know, some trees and land it's, it's so boring that I would look at it. And I would probably not even pick up the book. I'd open up to the map and go, if this is all the time and effort you put into making a map and it is literally, it looks like you sketched it. Autumn (49m 6s): It was some thick lines over it and you call it good and published it. I just, if that's, what's your editing gonna look like, I just, I am making an immediate judgment call, which isn't probably right. But that is what we do. We judge books by their cover. We're going to judge it by their formatting. And we're definitely going to judge it by what that map looks like. And it's going to greet us pretty early in the novel before we even start reading. And if I see a horrible Map, I'll be like, oh, well, there's your book, what quality you're going to have in there. So, yeah. And Bishop one was just one that I was like, oh, this is so painful. I can't believe this. Isn't like a published novel. Autumn (49m 48s): This is really bad. Jesper (49m 51s): Oh my God. I'm, I'm curious to see how much hate we are going to get on the back of this episode, you know, because essentially it's going to be like, here are the world's worst Maps. And then in the show notes, there's just going to be a list of names of settings and all kinds of things that all the bots on the internet can pick up. And then, oh my God, I could just see how much hate we are going to get on the back of all this. But as I said in the beginning, it's Mendez entertainment. So take it for what it is. Autumn (50m 15s): That's a personal opinion, but, and if you need a better map maker, come talk to me. Cause lady I, your books, people say you write gorgeous, wonderful books, but you're a Maps, blah. They're just horrible. Jesper (50m 32s): So I don't really know how do we declare a winner of these two top five list here? Autumm because it's, I think it's a bit difficult. Autumn (50m 43s): I think I'm short of you just admitting I won, which is fine. I think that we, I think we might have to leave this one to the listeners if they don't, you know, come at us with pitchforks and torches for having pointed out Maps that they absolutely adore. So we'll have to see how that goes. Jesper (51m 6s): Well, at least as far as a controversy goes, and I guess we stepped off foot in the hornet's nest of whatever you say in English, but that's about right. But okay. Maybe we'll, we'll leave it for listeners to declare winner here because honestly I can't quite make up my mind because yeah. And not that I have seen all of the maps that you mentioned, but at least the point you made. Yeah. I agree with, and I also felt you agreed with the points that I was making. So I don't know. Autumn (51m 31s): Yeah. I think we can say the winner is the readers who do not have to see these horrible Maps when they pick up a book. So, Jesper (51m 42s): All right. Well, we talked a lot about Maps today and of course our lists here were intended as pure entertainment, as I said, but if you are interested in more like let's call it proper advice on Fantasy map-making and it's not just a lot of goofy, funny stuff that we are sitting here and blowing out then, or perhaps you just love fantasy match and you like to geek out about it then Autumm and I will actually be hosting an online virtual Masterclass about Fantasy mapmaking in a few weeks from now. So if you want interested in that and go check out the details, why the link in the show notes, that'll take you to the registration page. Jesper (52m 22s): And I can tell you, we are looking so much forward to host this map-making Masterclass for the very first time. In fact, yes, Autumn (52m 30s): It will be so exciting and we get to geek out about Maps, which again, it's what brought us together. So yay. It'll be awesome. Jesper (52m 38s): So next Monday, we are going to discuss learning through all the master classes and masterminds. How can such forums be helpful for your author career? Narrator (52m 50s): If you like, what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast, going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

Sure, you can target ads by keywords, age, and gender... but have you ever thought about what all that means? Not every generation is the same or will respond to the same tactics! In this week's episode, we take a look at the different trends of Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z. Where do they hang out online? What are their spending habits? What key phrases will get them to buy your book... or cause them to run away in disgust? You might be surprised at which generation is the most ready to buy your book, what it takes to actually hook Gen X... or why KU might be the best fit if you write YA! Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.   SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.   Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.  Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (1s): You're listening to the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. In today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need an literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now on to the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Jesper (30s): Hello, I am Jesper Autumn (32s): and I'm Autumn. Jesper (35s): This is episode 143 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And this is a bit of a different topic that I actually haven't seen covered anywhere else. And Autumn, you wrote this a really interesting block series for our patron supporters. So perhaps I can just hand it over to you to share what we're talking about here today. Autumn (60s): So you want me to do all the work again? I see how it is. Well, Jesper (1m 6s): I prefer it that way. Autumn (1m 8s): Well, you've been busy, so that's fair enough. But yeah, I don't even, honestly, I don't even know where this idea came from, but there was at some point I was like, what would it be interesting to look at marketing book marketing by generation? Like, is it different to market, to boomers? Should you be marketing your books to boomers? Cause you know, when you do your Facebook ads, it almost, almost all the trainings, like say two 60 and under, well, why are boomers not buying books on Facebook? Are they not on Facebook? So I'm always curious. And you know, I like to question the status quo and see, well, why does it work this way? So I wrote a series of four Patreon posts looking at marketing to boomers, marketing to gen X, go gen X marketing to millennials and gen Z. Autumn (1m 57s): So I was actually really interesting and it did influence all of my thoughts on marketing. So it'll be really fun to dig into that today, Jesper (2m 6s): For sure. It should be a quite interesting and yeah, maybe we'll learn some stuff that we need to think about here. Autumn (2m 16s): No, I, I, I have to admit that it made me even rethink some of the stuff I'm doing my entrepreneurial sphere in my own life. And I think there is one generation that is like the ideal of who you should be marketing to. And I'm like, oh, I want to try this. So we'll have to get there. Jesper (2m 38s): Wow. Nice. Yes. Autumn (2m 41s): So anyway, how are things for you over in Denmark? Jesper (2m 47s): Well, as you said, pretty busy, I would say. And we also really still struggling with the potty who selling the house that we put in an offer for still Autumn (2m 60s): No definite there. Jesper (3m 4s): Well, we are pretty far from each other when it comes to the price at the moment, we probably have a gap like 45, 50,000 us dollars between us at the moment, which is quite a lot. And if I'm honest, I'm not really sure that we are going to be able to agree. Yeah, we did increase our offer with around 17,000 us dollars, but because the house needs a new roof, which will be very expensive to fix. Like I, like I mentioned in a podcast episode, a couple of weeks back, we have more or less offered now as much as we're willing to offer. Jesper (3m 51s): And if we offer more, we basically risk losing too much money if we won one day, want to sell the house again. So I think with the increased offer, we made, honestly, we're probably, if we want to sell the house again, we're probably going to lose around 50,000 us dollars the day we sell the house. And I don't like that, of course, but it's sort of within F acceptable acceptable range. I mean, we can live with that, but it cannot be any more than that. Right. And, and still, if I didn't look at that, then the selling party still needed to drop their price around 45,000 us dollars to meet us, which I don't think that'll happen to be honest, Autumn (4m 37s): Too bad. Cause I know you guys liked that one, so that's really unfortunate. Maybe they'll change their mind. You know, you're going, we're going into winter. And most people, most houses don't sell in winter. I know in the United States. So I can't imagine that they're selling like hotcakes in Denmark. So maybe they'll rethink that. Jesper (4m 57s): Yeah, usually, usually there's no problem selling houses in the winter here in Denmark that does, it goes year round. But I did talk to the real estate agent today and you know that the selling parties real estate agent, because she called me to sort of ask how things were going and what we were thinking. And I was sort of explaining to her like, you know, you're asking way too much money. And the fact that you had to put in a new roof, you need to account for that in the price, which you're not doing. And then I also told her, you know, find if he doesn't want to drop the price, but at the end of the day, the next buying party, if it's not going to be us, but the next party will have the same problem as we have now. Jesper (5m 40s): So you're not going to sell the house. If you keep insisting on chatting this much for it, because other people will also figure out that, okay, we need to put in a new roof, that's very expensive. We want a price reduction because of it. So you're going to end up in the same place next time. And he's been, they've had it for sale for about six months now. Right. So it's also about time that you start questioning. Maybe your price is too high after six months and you still haven't sold it. Yes. Autumn (6m 8s): Especially in the current. Jesper (6m 13s): Yeah. W w we'll see how it goes. But honestly, I, I don't know. Yeah. So we will, we've submitted the, a slight increase in our offer. And then also said in the email that this is our last offer. So we're not gonna increase the price any more than this. So either you take it off or that's Autumn (6m 31s): It, well, I'll keep my fingers crossed. We'll see what they say. Jesper (6m 35s): Yeah. I think it'll be a no, but, but maybe who knows, maybe they changed their mind in, in four or five months when they still haven't sold it. And maybe they'll come back and say, okay, are you still interested? Who knows? You know, Autumn (6m 46s): Maybe you'll find the perfect house coming up. I know you guys are so busy, so it's hard to look for houses at the same time, but you never know. You might find something else you like even more. Jesper (6m 58s): Yeah. Yeah. Who knows, but you're also trying to work out what to do and what not. So I know you are busy as well. Autumn. Autumn (7m 4s): Yeah. Yeah. Just a, I think it's so funny because we were just joking. I mean, it looks like I'm in the middle. It's like midnight here that we're somehow on the same continent, but it's only three in the afternoon and it is just like gray and raining. We got the fall rains coming into Vermont. But yeah, our housing where we're kind of wanting to leave here around November, you know, my husband spent all summer working in Maine. He's got some good job offers up that way. So we're kind of up in the air trying to look around too. But the housing market, the rental apartment market and the U S is just insane. So we're like, well, you can want to change something, but sometimes it's not as easy as you expected. So I don't know why we're going to end up doing where we'll end up being. Autumn (7m 47s): But I know the next, I know the upcoming podcast will be slightly out of order, but I am going to go see my parents and that'll be fun. So I know one of our episodes we'll be recording soon. I'll have a whole different backdrop and maybe some overhead lighting. I won't look like I'm coming from like, Jesper (8m 6s): Just for a change Autumn (8m 7s): For a change just to, you know, make things exciting and keep my life exciting. It'll be good. Jesper (8m 13s): Oh yeah. Sounds like a good idea. Okay. Let's move on here Narrator (8m 19s): A week on the internet with the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. Jesper (8m 25s): So the most important thing first here, Autumn. Okay. Are you ready? Oh, I'm going to spring something on you. Autumn (8m 34s): I'm taking a deep breath. Okay. I'm ready. Jesper (8m 39s): So one of the YouTube comments on episode 141, that was the one where we went head to head trying to come up with the worst superpowers ever. But one of the comments was from Zayed and he actually declared a winner. Did you notice that? Autumn (8m 54s): I think I did... Jesper (8m 56s): See that one because it made me rather happy. You want to guess who he thought was the winner or him, Autumn (9m 5s): If it's the same post well, no, that's right. I saw a Facebook comment, not a YouTube one. Shoot. So you better not tell me he thought you were the winner. Jesper (9m 15s): Of course. Otherwise. Why would I bring it up? Otherwise I would just have ignored it Autumn (9m 22s): Really? I swear on Facebook he said I won Jesper (9m 27s): No, no, no. He actually said, he actually said, quote, I'm a practicing Christian. And I got to say, I'm confused about Bible Man. I think yes. But wins on that one alone. Autumn (9m 41s): I don't think so. You had, it was a pretty pathetic list. I have to say that you had, I don't know if it's the worst though. Jesper (9m 49s): Well, that was the point of it. It was supposed to be pathetic. Autumn (9m 54s): It was pathetic, but I wouldn't say it was worse, but the dog had weld, whatever that one was, dog welder. I just put the heck arm fall off point. Just know, I can't believe someone even came up with those as like characters ever much less actually wrote a comic where they're included. I mean really, really stretching, cutting the risk guys. There were some really good writers out there. They'll help you a lot. Jesper (10m 31s): Yeah. Yeah. So I thought that was an important YouTube comment into, and that's worth mentioning of course, here on the podcast as well, I Autumn (10m 41s): Think was Jesper (10m 42s): For, no, thank you. Say it for, for being so smart about your choices on who should win. I think that it was a good choice. I would just say that. Autumn (10m 55s): I think you guys have a deal going. I don't believe that one. Jesper (11m 1s): Okay. But something else I wanted to mention was a post I did for our Patrion supporters, because I actually wrote about whether or not Kindle unlimited is good for fantasy authors. So if people want to check out the details of that post, I can, of course join over on Patrion. There's a link in the show notes, but I thought it interesting how in the post that all the top 100 fantasy books in the top 100 chart in, on Amazon, all of them are available through Kindle unlimited. That Autumn (11m 40s): Is pretty impressive. Jesper (11m 43s): What do you think about that? Every single one on the top 100 chart is in Kindle unlimited Autumn (11m 48s): Pretty impressive. I think that is a high stat showing whether or not it's for fantasy. I would have to admit. Jesper (11m 57s): Yeah. Yeah. The post I wrote was based on an article written by a written word media and it's based on some research as well, which I always like when I, she stuff that is based on research rather than on opinions. So, so I think that was a very interesting, and in fact, we have recently enrolled some of our books in Kindle unlimited as well. And I have to say, I'm not very happy about the exclusivity demand for Kindle unlimited or from Amazon there, but we do want to see how it affects sales. So yeah. Autumn (12m 34s): Yeah. I, you know, I'm always up for testing, but it is interesting that, you know, you brought up your path, Patreon posts on Kindle unlimited and then today's podcast is based off of four posts and Patreon. So in if I want to, yeah. If you want to hear more about read those posts, which are in depth and have a lot of market research and links to other sources. Yeah. That's on Patreon. If you want to join. And really, if you were inspired by this episode today, and once you check it out and really get into the links and the stats, that's waiting for you on there for just a dollar a month. Jesper (13m 9s): Indeed. Yeah. And also of course, if, if the, if you, dear listeners should be interested in knowing sort of, if we got any results from placing our books in Kindle unlimited, then do let us know. And I dunno, maybe we can dedicate like a future podcast episode to that topic or something. But yeah, if that interests you, then let us know. Sounds good. Narrator (13m 33s): And onto today's topic. Jesper (13m 37s): So we have some different generations to cover here today. We have boomers, gen X, millennials, and gen C. So I don't know, do we just want to start with the boomers and then sort of work down the list of these generations? Or how do you want to do it on them? Autumn (13m 55s): I, that makes sense. Or I guess maybe at times we can compare and contrast, but I think as boomers are a great place to start because they were, it was not the, what I expected was the result of what came up with boomers. It was kind of fun to get a different perspective on who the boomer generation is, especially with marketing and fantasy book marketing. Jesper (14m 21s): Yeah. So boomers are born between 1946 and 1964. So those are the people we are talking about. So this also means that they are an older generation. Autumn (14m 32s): They are they're my, my parents' generation though. Some people have, you know, there are still a few people alive who are known as the silent generation, which is older than boomers, but I left them off our little marketing analysis. We were letting them be, let them be, but they're still readers, but the boomers, they're the, I said, if you're going onto Facebook and you were choosing your targeting audience on your Shane saying 60 and under, you're totally leaving out the boomers. The boomers are the ones who are actually 60 and older. So they're an older generation and you might be surprised. Cause I think the perception is that they're not online. Maybe they do a lot of research, but there's some interesting stats about where they hang out, how often they buy and what it takes them to actually buy something, which I didn't expect. Jesper (15m 24s): Yeah. And also worth pointing out. Like you said, in the article that the boomers hold almost 50% of the total wealth in the us. So yeah. They have money. These people, Autumn (15m 38s): Yes. There's 72 million boomers still alive. This was a massive generation there and they're called boomers. It's from the baby boom that happened post world war II. So there was a huge amount of children born, still a large base of the population, 72 million. The only one that is larger than this as gen of millennials are also really large generation. So lots of people, they hold around 50% of the U S well, that's a lot of money. And I guess the question is, well, you know, do they read fantasy? Do they buy books online? Those are really the big questions of if they're worth marketing to. Autumn (16m 20s): And what I started to think about it, I mean, this is the generation that the first, when their Lord of the rings was published, these were the kids reading them, this teenagers, they were reading token. I would love that. Can you imagine being alive and Tolkien was writing and producing his books. That would be so cool. But they were alive with Isaac Asimov, if you like. Saifai so a lot of the clot, what we consider now, classic, they were the original fans. They were my parents who, you know, took me to see star wars and were fine with it and thought it was so cool. So they saw the moon landing. They are not anti fantasy. So I I've definitely heard that of some people saying, well, they don't read fantasy kidding. Autumn (17m 3s): They may talk in popular. They love fantasy. They just didn't like Dungeons and dragons. Well, that's another story. Jesper (17m 12s): Yeah, that's true. But the one thing that I'm thinking about, at least I, well, I don't have like a statistical research of it, but at least if I compare to my own parents, for example, I'm reading on the Kindle, for example, that took some convincing. You know, I, I don't know. I mean, of course my parents might not be like the stereotypical, you know, version of, of the boom was meaning that, that this is how all the boomers are not, I'm not saying that at all, but I could speculate, at least that might prefer to have the book in their hands, like paperbacks or hot packs and stuff like that, that I could speculate that. Autumn (17m 56s): I think it would be not disingenuous to say that, that if you want to market to boomers, it would probably be a good idea to make sure you have a paperback version, but they have taken, unlike the perception they have taken to computers and the internet age actually extremely well. A lot of them are like, oh, Facebook is the number one place. If you want to go market to boomers, just go to Facebook. That's where they are. But it was the stats on them. I mean, it was 70% of like boomers are online or on a computer. And of those 70%, like 90% of them are on Facebook. So they're online and what my favorite thing about them. Autumn (18m 36s): So they have their huge population base. So if you want to say, even 10% of them like fantasy and you know, or maybe 10% of will read on a Kindle, that's still a huge number of people. They have a ton of wealth they're retired. So they, they might work part-time but they don't need to work because they already have money and they're in retirement. So they have time to read which show that's fantastic. And they are, tend to be impulsive buyers and they're very brand centric. So if you say something to them that they like, they will immediately go and buy because they've got the money. They're not worried. They just learn what they don't have is time. So they want to make sure, you know, they have, they enjoy their lives. Autumn (19m 20s): They're not going to sit there and him and hall, if they think they're going to like a book, they'll go and buy the book. And then if they like you, they love brands. So they will stay with you and be a loyal follower. I mean, they sound like the perfect person to try to sell your book to, you might want to tailor your ads though, specifically to them, they're going to want different wording. And remember they were alive when token was writing. So you don't want to say, hi, as good as a token. Well, you know, you better, gosh, darn be as good as token. Cause they know who that is. And they were reading it before you were born. So make your ads honest, but make it something where they're like, oh my goodness, I want to go and try this out. Autumn (20m 4s): And they click and they may very well just going by like that. Jesper (20m 9s): Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. It might be sometimes a bit harder to get them to read the books, but yeah, the various debt, but I was a bit surprised in your post-test worlds that your post pointed out that a lot of them is actually using YouTube as well. That w I mean, not, not creating videos, but watching YouTube. I mean, that actually surprised me a bit because that's not normally what I would think about this generation that they would be watching YouTube. Yeah. Autumn (20m 38s): And we'll see that across all of them. That YouTube is a really big player often next to Facebook, or a little bit better than Facebook. So YouTube, if you can find a way that taps into that market that is engaging. And I think that's the tough thing with selling books is finding a way of selling your books on YouTube. I don't think anyone has hit the perfect formula for that yet, but at the very least you can, if you can try out some videos, you could try them on Facebook and YouTube and see if you can kind of get people hooked in, try your book trailers, just make sure they're really, really good and really engaging and not boring. Jesper (21m 17s): Yeah. I would not spend time on that to be honest. But yeah. Well we had our little spell with YouTube already. Autumn. So yeah, we gave up on that quite a long time ago. Autumn (21m 30s): I don't, as I said, I don't think anyone, there's some people who do very well on YouTube and it takes a ton of work, more work than I think most people appreciate. And I still don't think when it comes to selling actual books, like being there as an author, not trying to sell a service, I don't think anyone has cracked that nut. So Hey, you could be the first one. Good luck. Jesper (21m 51s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. Should we move on to gen X? Yeah. These people are born between 1965 and 1979. So this, Autumn (22m 9s): Yes, this is us. This is ours. And it's even includes my husband. If you count as you, the years you gave also includes something called they call them Zen, not millennials zinnias, which is starts with an X because they are the, a group that's, they're not really millennials. They're not really gen X. They're kind of squished in between. They call them a micro-generation, but they tend to go both ways. It can be a little bit more millennial. They can be a little more or gen X. And that's my husband. He's a little younger than me. There are some differences, but not much. But what is neat about these two generations or this generation micro-generation is we are the first ones who have an analog childhood. Autumn (22m 51s): We had a childhood of books and playing outside and hearing about computers in the basement of giant colleges, you know, but never seeing one until we hit our teenage years. So our adulthood has been taken over by the internet and the digital age, but our childhood, we remember playing war and kick the can and running through hayfields. At least I do. It was much more, much more a hands-on and physical. And as I say, analog, and we're the last generation who has that memory of the time before computers, which is kind of Sky Net App or something. Jesper (23m 28s): Yeah. Nobody, it's actually quite funny because as well, sometimes I've been, I've been talking to my sons about, you know, when we got the very first computer at home, when I was a kid or like teenage young teenager, we've got the very first computer. And I was trying to explain to them how it actually felt, you know, to get the first compete because they don't understand because computers has always been part of their life and they don't get the fact that once you sit down and for the first time ever, you use this kind of machine that has never existed before. And then I was showing them on YouTube. I found some old clips of what the games looked like back then. Jesper (24m 9s): And they were looking at me like, are you crazy? I was like, but you don't understand. That was amazing back then. Yeah. Just some pixels moving on a screen was amazing. Autumn (24m 21s): If you've been that the first time I did a, a game, that was, it was mushing. So multi-user shared hallucination. I did the college. And the fact that, you know, you could be on at 1:00 AM and you're talking to someone in New Zealand and all you had literally was texts on a screen. We didn't even have pixels for the, some of the sites I was on. And I was just like, oh my gosh, you're in Australia, New Zealand, you're in Asia. This is amazing. I can't, I still have an email that I found recently from my dad, one of the first ones on my account that somehow got saved. And it was like, I can't believe it was when I was studying abroad in Manchester, UK. And I was like, I can't believe you, you know, you asked me for this and I just sent it to you and you have it instantly. Autumn (25m 2s): I mean, mail was two weeks long and I could chat with my dad, like, and get information, something I needed from him like that. Well, as long as it took the attachment to upload and download, which is like still an eternity compared to today, but back then 10 minutes for an attachment, you're like, cut, thank you so much. You just saved my life. It was amazing. And I still have one of those original emails and it's just cool. It's cool to think back saying this was huge, huge, huge, huge. Jesper (25m 31s): Yeah, it is. Yeah. And it's so difficult to explain to people who are not gen Xs, what that felt like, but, but it, I think it's Autumn (25m 40s): Pretty cool. It is. I am sure there is. Jesper (25m 42s): And you also pointed out in your post how sorry I interrupted you Autumn (25m 48s): And I'm sure there's listeners who are like, yeah, this is so cool. This thing. No. Jesper (25m 53s): Yeah, yeah. And also you pointed out in your post to how during the teenage years of G annexes, we were influenced by dragon lands and dragons RPG and stuff. And I instantly thought, yes, that's right. Autumn (26m 10s): Yes. That is, that came out usually most of our formative years. So if we're a fantasy fan, it might've started before dragon lands. For me, it started before dragon lands with Anne McCaffrey. But when it came out, it became this huge phenomenon, especially getting to play the role-playing game. Of course, on the side of that, our parents, we were going through the satanic panic, which I mentioned later in some of the other generations. But yeah, it was such a big donor that we, you know, we often hid the fact that we're into Dungeons and dragons from our parents. Lest we be have our games taken away or not be allowed to see your friends anymore, but it was sort of one of the first, I mean, token was big, but I think dragon lands really defines a lot of our generation and our love of fantasy and the type of fantasy. Autumn (26m 57s): Maybe we still enjoy because it's changed a lot, but there's still a core of those stories that have the ELs, the dwarves that are still so much a derivative of token very closely. Jesper (27m 10s): Yeah. And, and the whole thing about a, you know, like an adventure group, like in, in dragon lands, like there, they are a group that goes out together and all that stuff. Right. That's very trophy nowadays as well. And I also liked, which I also felt like hit home in your article was that we like to do research before we buy. So we are checking on the internet for reviews and, and you know, other competitors, other products and stuff like that, which I definitely recognize because I do that myself, whenever I need to buy something, I'm going to check reviews. I'm going to do some, a bit of internet research to see, you know, is there some, a better alternatives or is this really the best product and stuff like that? Jesper (27m 52s): So, so I definitely recognize myself in, in that as well. Autumn (27m 57s): Yes. I think that is a very funny trait. We weren't born into the internet age, but we helped shape it. And we certainly helped shape it as a marketing platform. So a lot of us that are entrepreneurs, we know our way in and out of the marketplace and in and out of running businesses online and we do our research, we will check out comparisons. We will look at competitors, we will check the reviews, we'll read the reviews. So we're not a spontaneous buyer. We are the one that when they say it takes at least seven to 11 times of seeing an ad before someone will go and look at your book, that's us. Yeah. We will not go buy your book just because you sell it on. Instagram will be like, yeah, that's nice. You don't hook us on the first bite. Autumn (28m 38s): Not even close, we're going to check you out. We'll think about it. And compared to boomers. So was it a lot of more research and we are a smaller generation. We're not 72 million. We're like 68, I think. So there's less of us. And I can't remember what percentage of the wealth we have, but obviously boomers have almost half. And we have about half of what's left somewhere around 25%. So we're doing pretty Jesper (29m 1s): Good. We're doing pretty Autumn (29m 2s): Good. We were getting into our, you know, forties now and we're, we're okay. We're doing well. You know, our most famous, I think gen X-er is Elon Musks. So we, you know, some of us have done really well. None of the rest of us are working on that. We're definitely a generation of doing our research. We have some money, but we're pretty much, we've worked really hard to earn our money at this point. And we don't let it go as quickly. So you can get us with a coupon. We will launch, we will jump into an email marketing to get a coupon. That's fine. We know how email marketing works because we probably set it up ourselves. That's just how we, we know how it all works. Autumn (29m 44s): So we'll sign up for something. We'll get on a list. And I thought it was funny. One of the biggest things about our generation is we'll stick with you. We like brands. We like people until they say something we don't like. And then it was like, you're gone. You have one chance to lose us. And you say something we find offensive, or we don't agree with like, you're gone unsubscribe. So we're the, also the unsubscribed generation, Jesper (30m 7s): Right? Yeah. So I think in overall from a book selling perspective, this is where you're, you know, building up your reviews are really important. That's at least that's going to help to convince a gen X person to actually buy your book. Autumn (30m 22s): Yes. Jesper (30m 24s): Move on to millennials. Autumn (30m 25s): Okay. Well, I want to wrap up one quick thing. So gen X is, are on Facebook, so you can still market to them. We're also on Instagram. And I agree if you're going to try to hook a gen X-er, you're probably gonna have to spend a lot more money than you would with a boomer and reviews. Being able to say other people have liked this, be very open with your reviews. That's how you're going to get them more interested than saying we're great. I write just like token and they're not going to buy that Jesper (30m 53s): Molina. Millennial. Stan is born from 1981 to 1996. So these are the people who actually grew up fully in the internet age. And probably most of them probably don't even know what life before computers. Autumn (31m 11s): No, if they have any interesting to me. Yeah. I can't imagine. So they have any recollection of life before computers. They will have memories of life before smartphones. So they might remember flip phones and cell phones. So that's kind of, you know, I can at least relate to that a little bit, but they grew up knowing computers, building computers, and they they're pretty snazzy and know their way around the marketing. What's surprised me is I thought, for sure, all the millennials, they get such a bad rap as being like the more self-centered generation. But at the same time, the oldest ones are in their forties. You know, they're taking their kids to college, they've grown up, but they are really still really good online. Autumn (31m 56s): And I thought they'd all be off of Facebook, but there's still a majority of them on Facebook. And after that Instagram, I mean, those are the two big ones of where you can find still millennials somehow. I don't know how Facebook keeps everyone, but they do. Jesper (32m 12s): Yeah, they do. Yeah. But also things like Twitter and Twitter and tick-tock and that kind of place, they also hanging out. Autumn (32m 19s): Yeah. They're sick talk is especially coming up, but there are, yeah, there are a little more broad spectrum. So it's harder to find out exactly like in what was interesting. It doesn't that study this statistic. I was quoting didn't show if they were on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter, which most likely they are, but there could be some orders. Like, are you here or here or here? I mean, this is one of the ones. If you're marketing to them, you're going to have to market to our broad base. Cause I'm not quite sure where they are and how often they're seeing you. Jesper (32m 53s): Yeah. And again, the majority is watching YouTube here. Amazing. Again, I'm not so sure about this. I mean, it's interesting of course, to know that the majority is watching YouTube, but I don't think that they are watching YouTube from a book perspective. So they're just using it as it as entertainment. So there's also means that I I'm not, I don't think that you want you to conclude out of this, that you should try to sell books on YouTube to these people. That's not the point here. No. Autumn (33m 21s): Oh, I think you'll good luck with that. If you can find a way, but yeah. I think they're pretty much on YouTube. Like you said, for entertainment, maybe tutorials. I mean, my that's my favorite use of YouTube. I must be so boring, but I'm on it to watch tutorials on how to, to stuff. Yeah. I wouldn't do it yourself or that's how it works. Jesper (33m 41s): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and also for the millennials, you know, they have a very, very large population-based there even lots of than the boomers, but as you pointed out in your article as well, they, on the other hand, they don't have that much cash compared to our gen Xs. We have like five, five times the wealth of the millennials and they are many more than we are. So I think money wise, they usually operate with a fairly limited budget. Yes. Autumn (34m 16s): I agree. There tend to be educated. And I think gen Z are even going to be more educated than millennials, but millennials tend to be educated. Their careers really haven't taken off, even though, I mean, they can be as old as 40, but they're still struggling. We'll get to the statistic when we talk to gen Z, but gen Z and millennials combined, combined, which has a huge amount of population. That's 68 million plus like 72 million somewhere in there. They only have 6% of the U S wealth 6%. So if you're a marketing to anyone who is 40 and younger, we're talking about someone who has only 6% of the U S wealth. They're going to be inheriting quite a lot from baby boomer parents. Autumn (34m 57s): I think it was like 68 trillion. But again, the wealthiest are going to inherit. The most, most people are going to just inherit, maybe a nice modest sum. And then you take out the inheritance tax, which is like 50%. They're not going to be made wealthy overnight. And that was 68 trillion by 2030. So they still have some ears and that's a good a statistic. So that's going to be up and down. It's going to be some sooner. Some later may remind me later. So they're not a very wealthy generation. If you're marketing to them, this is the one you want to be trying free giveaways. They will sign up for free giveaways and free coupons. And again, these are people who have grown up with the internet. Autumn (35m 37s): They have probably started their own businesses in high school. They know how it works. They know what happens when they sign up. Most often they've done it probably a million times and they, but they will do it. They will sign up to check out something and to give a sample, they'll go for the free sample. It might be the best way to hook them. However, they might not be able to afford to go buy all your books right away. They might have the budget for them. They might be the ones on Kindle unlimited. That's going to be the best deal for them because they don't have a ton of money. You want to keep these aspects in mind that, you know, they're the ones who are looking for things. But the nice thing is, is since I grew up in the internet age and because they have a limited amount of money, they're also really good at research. Autumn (36m 19s): They're really into reading reviews. And they're huge at social media, leaving reviews and telling people if they loved or hated you. So these are the influencer generation. They're the ones who, if they like you, they're going to show the unboxing. They're going to give you reviews. They're going to give you a huge shout out. However, they are definitely not brand second shirt. They are quality centric. So they might stick to you for a while. But if they find something better, they're going to move to something better. So you might not be able to hold on to these as tightly, as you might a boomer who was going to basically keep you in cherished for the last breath. Jesper (37m 3s): Yeah. And of course the good news is that the eBooks, at least, I mean, these people are very used to the, you know, technology and so on. So eBooks is not a problem. And then the other part of it is of course as well that they might not have a lot of wealth, but eBooks are like a couple of bucks. So for most of them, they, I think they should be able to afford a couple of bucks for an ebook. Otherwise they have a lot of problems, but not to say that some don't of course, but, but I think there's quite a big, I mean, because they aren't, there are so many of these that a lot of them will have the money to buy a three, four, $5 ebook. So yeah, it's good to know of course, to be mindful that they are operating on a limited budget. Jesper (37m 48s): And like you just said, autumn, this, just to me, that doesn't mean so much about them not being able to afford the books. I think it more speaks to the fact that you have to write really good books too, to keep these people reading. Otherwise they they'll just not buy any more from you. Then they'll go jump on onto another author or something instead, and try to read some other books. But because they might, you might be able to hook them to buy one book, but they're not going to continue reading the series unless they really find it really good. Yeah. So for me, I think that's the important part. Yeah. Autumn (38m 21s): Yeah. I agree. And I'm though, I do, I have met a, quite a few that have mentioned that, you know, they have a book budget, you know, they can only, they, everything is budgeted in their life because they only have so much money and you know, the good ones don't go over, but that's why things like Kindle unlimited are such good deals and they're going for the deals. So if there's a way, if they love reading and they want to be able to read as many books as possible in a month, they're going to read Kindle unlimited. And that's why I think you see Kindle unlimited being such a huge, you know, inducement, why so many people are a part of it because it's a good deal. If you're a serial reader and you only have like 4% of the entire U S wealth. Yeah, I do it. Not a problem. Jesper (38m 60s): Yeah. Okay. So Jen C born between 1997 and two, 2012. So that basically makes them between six years old and 24 at this point in time, they are so there's a lot of them, nearly 68 million people in the U S here. Autumn (39m 21s): So this is another big generation, almost the same as a gen X. So this is like our, our shadow copy gen Z and admittedly they're young. So there's not a ton of market research on them yet, but it's up and coming. They're starting to make their waves known in the world. But again, combined gen Z combined with gen with millennials, only 6% of the U S well, so tiny amount. So they're even less. They have even less than millennials because they're just getting into the workforce. If they finish their education, they almost, all of them have at least one parent that graduated from college and a lot of them are going on to do master's program. They're going to be one of the highest educated generations. Autumn (40m 2s): And so because of that, a lot of them are not in the workforce or working full time. So they have even less money going around. They have also never known a world without smartphones, and that's just terrible by amazing, amazing. They are, you know, they're going to, the next generation is going to come with USB plugs installed. I swear. They just know their way around. Exactly. So they're there. The biggest thing I think in the reason I included them, even though they're not much marketing research is that if you are targeting Y a young adult readers, you're targeting gen Z. So go and look and see what they're doing. Autumn (40m 43s): Of course, I thought it was so funny when I looked at why stats 50% of why readers are adults they're older than 24. So that's, you know, gen X of even boomers, millennials, they're all reading. Why are they just doing a secretly? But technically gen Z is your target audience. If you're Yia. So you should know where they are, what they're doing, how they buy books. This is really important for you to take a look at it and see where they're hanging out, which again is pretty much all over from Tik TOK to F to Facebook, to YouTube, to Snapchat. Tick-tock rising pretty quickly. Jesper (41m 26s): Yeah. I think for these people, you know, think of somebody who's grown up with computers, they grown up with smartphones, they grown up with apps. So it's really important if you want to engage with these people online, which is like the main place where you should be engaging with them, all the, like, you know, nice images, nice user interfaces, eh, corresponding with them through commons and in chats and you know, the whole community building thing. That's the key here. So yeah, to me, like for, for somebody, a, a gen X person, I already feel like, oh, this sounds stressful. Jesper (42m 9s): All the, all the million interactions in commenting on all these different social media platforms. I don't know. It's not my thing to be honest. But I think for these people, for the GNCs, it's important for them, this, this is how they, to a last degree, that's how they view relationships. A lot of their relationships are online. So it's, it's yeah. For, for, for somebody from a gen X, this is just like a different planet kind of thing. Autumn (42m 41s): I mean, they consider their life online almost equal to their physical life. It is about equally important, 50 50, which yeah. As a gen X or having remembered like life offline that I still prefer, you know, to be offline quite a lot. We're the, we're the generation that's like, I'm digging a social media break. I mean, I think gen Z is like, that's half of my life. I would never go offline, but they want the fine touch. They want the, they want community. If you want to get gen Z ears into loving your WIA books, you have to build community. You have to have interaction and beautiful photos and you have to have video. They like video. So they want to see all of these things and you've got to be chatting with them and you've got to be dynamic. Autumn (43m 21s): And you've got to also be really aware. And this is what I've been reading some way books. And the change is so non they're, non token, not at all. If you want to go read like the shadow and bone, the Grisha series of Krisha verse, it's so different from what I was reading as a teenager, there's very few elves, very few dwarves, very few overs. It's almost all humans and different races and their interactions. And, you know, they'll have issues of transgender and homosexuality. It's all there and it's very open. And those are the concerns rather than, you know, a quest group it's totally different. And it's kind of, to me, it was really a refreshing to read. Autumn (44m 3s): It was very exciting to read very different, but it is a completely different audience. And it's interesting. You got to go in and hang out with them and see what they're doing and be on Tik TOK and be very engaged and fun and have that community, and also have the coupons and the free books and Canon limited, because that is definitely how you're going to be able to hook them. At least have one series in Kindle unlimited. If you're doing WIA, because they're in school, they don't got much money. Don't make them pay for everything. They're probably getting it as a Christmas present from their parents. Jesper (44m 38s): It sounds like way too much work on them. I'm already tired. Autumn (44m 42s): And you have kids, your kids are technically gen Z or Jesper (44m 48s): Yeah, but I, yeah, that part is fine. But I marketing to these people sounds like way too much. Autumn (44m 55s): Yeah. I probably is. But just have your train, your kids to do it. You'll, there'll be naturals. That's why you have kids, maybe your marketing managers. True. Jesper (45m 6s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was talking to my oldest son because he's about to, he wants to start his own YouTube channel. He wants to do like a, well, like a true GNC, I guess. Right. So he wants to build a YouTube channel and he wants to, you know, do like those gaming videos and stuff like that. And then I was trying, I w I was trying to be like the good dad who has been, you know, I've been doing the YouTube thing for us as well and all that stuff. So I was, I started talking about something because we were talking about the intro and outro music thing that you put on videos and stuff like that. And I was sort of saying to him, well, just be mindful that you know, that some of that is copyrighted. Jesper (45m 49s): You can't just take some music for wherever. And he was like, yeah, yeah. I know all of that as you do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I also know where to find it. Okay. So he knows all of it. I bet you, like, in, in four months, you'll will know more about YouTube than I ever knew. Autumn (46m 6s): We're going to be hiring him as our social media manager. Just watch the, Jesper (46m 11s): Yes. They just, yeah. They notice stuff. They do know this stuff. Okay. But what can we sort of conclude out of all this order, Autumn (46m 19s): That if you're a gen X-er and marketing to G and you're not doing Y a and marketing to gen Z and millennial sounds too much market to boomers, try it. I would S I would love to know if anyone is specifically choosing like a Facebook audience saying, you know, 50 and older, and, you know, just finding the right words, because again, they will actually spend money. They will go buy your books. Possibly. Like I said, you should have paper books available, but they will read online. As lot of them have adapted to like the Kindle paper, whites and stuff that feel more like a book that look more like a book. I want to know if anyone's doing that because after reading this, I'm like, they have money. They're impulsive, they're brand centric. Autumn (46m 60s): They sound like they have, they're retired. They have time to read. They sound like the gift of book marketing right there. Go for boomers. I want to know if anyone else is because it's totally rethought. I'm like, I now see why, if you're marketing to gen X, you're going to be marketing forever to try to get them to get, you know, give you a try. They'll give you a try, but they're, you know, they're booked, they're tired. They've got kids, they do their research. They're going to be so hard sell to, and the rust, you know, they don't have much money. These are not a huge 6% of the wealth they're going to be. It's going to take some time to get gen Z and millennials to want to spend money on you, unless you've got a really good deal. Autumn (47m 43s): But boomers, you know, 50% of the U S wealth, lots of free time, impulsive shoppers. Oh, I love you. I have to admit in some of my best emails, I put that in the post, some of the best emails I've ever gotten and the lengthiest emails, because boomers will correspond with you and they will stick with you. My biggest fans have all been boomers, but it took until I wrote that article to valet, oh, this is why they care. And they want to get to know you and they will stay with you and they will love you. And maybe they're not going to give you as big as a shout-out as a millennial or a gen Z, because they're going to spread you all over the internet. Autumn (48m 23s): They're going to love you in a really compassionate way. So I want to know if anyone's marketing to boomers. Cause I think it's totally a way to go. Jesper (48m 32s): Yeah. So let us know. And hopefully you got a bit of a inspiration for, you know, well, at least on the Facebook ads, you can target different age brackets. So at least now, you know, for your Facebook ads, at least some things to consider and think about on Amazon ads, obviously there's no way to select certain age groups and so on. So there you, yeah, it doesn't help much, but yeah, but at least with the Facebook ads, I think this is very useful. Autumn (49m 5s): Yes. And in the posts on patron, I actually went into maybe some suggested images because each generation has different traits of the type of images that call to them. So again, come, go check out the post on Patriana. If you're a member or join for a dollar a month, then go check it out and see what the suggestions are. Jesper (49m 24s): Okay, good. So next Monday, autumn has a very special interview lined up for you. It's about how to write fight scenes. And for us fantasy authors that is highly relevant. Narrator (49m 36s): If you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the and writing fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy for as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

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Grab the Pinwheel phone for your kid's first phone, and avoid the addiction and battle created by giving a smartphone too soon: Click here or go to https://www.pinwheel.com and use code BETHATMOMTEN for a discount!  More info on the Gabb Wireless phone: CLICK HERE or use code BETHATMOM for a discount at https://www.gabbwireless.com Add a BARK subscription to your Pinwheel phone or smart phone for added security. Use code BETHATMOM for 20% off for life! https://www.bark.us BARK HOME: CLICK here!! Covenant Eyes 30 day free trial CLICK HERE!! Full Transcription: Speaker 1 (00:00): Okay. I just have to do a big sigh because today we're going to talk about yet another platform that we as parents need to be concerned about. If you have bark, they're already on it. Trust me on this, but regardless you need to be aware of this one. It is one that is creeped up and has a lot of risks. So stay tuned. Speaker 2 (00:24): Welcome to your source for tips, tools, and support to help you be that mom that is tuned in and proactive for yourself, your family, and for the wild ride of raising kids in this digital age, inspired by a mother's love with a relatable, real life. Proud to be that mom flair. This is the bead that mom movement with your host, Dolly Denson, he friends did Speaker 1 (00:51): Here. There is an app that will transform the safety of your kids. Smartphone and technology use. It is my favorite way to sleep easy at night and have peace of mind because it is monitoring my kids' activity online without me being in their business. It is the bark app and yes, bark like a dog bark bark bark. It tells you when there's something that you need to be concerned about starting at a small fee each month, you can protect your whole family across all devices. Get connected with bark today. Use code, be that mom for 20% off your subscription for life and get a seven day free trial to check it out. We were growing up there wasn't an internet, but our dream of becoming famous often mean that we wanted to be an actor or singer or some type of professional sports player. Which one did you want to be? Speaker 1 (01:39): I can't remember what I wanted to be, but it's a common thing for kids to want to be popular, to want to be famous and becoming popular and famous on YouTube or Tik TOK has become more and more of a thing, right? We have shifted as a society in terms of what we value in content, as well as the intimacy of social media or intimacy of how we connect and what we connect with because of social media. So things like zoom and the pandemic brought us together. Facebook groups bring us together over common themes or content that we want to know. And this app is one thing that is bringing kids together, but you were not going to believe what it is tending to do. It is tending to provide pornographic content to our kids. Yes. In an app, this app is called only fans, all one altogether, O N L Y F a N S. Speaker 1 (02:40): So get the screen time or Google family link settings set on your kid's smartphone, or get that phone out of their hands and get them a pinwheel phone that won't have apps like this. Of course use my code, be that mom dash tin. If you do need to get a pinwheel phone and just move away from these dangers for a bit and have control over what can be in their inbox. But if they do already have a smartphone, get the, uh, setting set up to where they cannot download apps on their own, they require your approval every single time and have this app in the back of your mind, knowing that it can be bad news. Okay. So let's talk about what this app is and how it came to be and what you need to be watching out for which basically just means don't let them download it at all. Speaker 1 (03:28): But basically this is a place where people can go and they can make a channel and people pay them a monthly fee to view their posts or their content. And it sounds like Patrion, right? Have you ever heard of Patrion? I've heard of that for a couple of months. Never really looked into it until today. And I think it's actually a really cool platform where someone that wants to know what your content is, wants to have a regular feed of your content can pay a small fee every month, like $5 so that they can have access to your exclusive content. That's pretty amazing when you have these valuable things to offer people. But what they are seeing happen with this app is that the accounts are often sexual content. So as of March 20, 21 more than 120 million users, and 1 million creators are active on this platform. Speaker 1 (04:26): A primary driving factor for creators is the fact that the company allows them to keep 80% of the money they make. There's even an interactive tool on the app that allows the creators imagination to kind of run wild because it estimates how much they can earn by starting an account. So young people can be lured by the potential of a six figure salary with the more followers that they have. And while lots of different creators use the platform like makeup artists, musicians, it has become almost exclusively known for its sexual content. Pornography is allowed and is a prominent among its creators. Many of whom are sex workers of some kind, the creators can upload videos. They filmed, or they can broadcast live to their fans. They can also provide their content in a subscription or a pay per view model. In some of the most popular creators can make tens of thousands of dollars each month. Speaker 1 (05:25): So officially you have to be 18 or older to sign up for only fans, but ultimately who's verifying that right? Who is technically verifying that now to subscribe to the pages that have a charge you're asked for a credit card. And while this may seem a barrier, it is very easy for kids to get a prepaid visa card or some type of gift card that they can then use to purchase these things. So just because they're not old enough to have a credit card does not mean that they don't necessarily sign up for something like this. And this is what they have found has been happening. So to become a creator on the platform, there's a more vigorous verification process. So they don't necessarily have the ability to make a creator account if they are younger, because it has to connect to a bank account and it has to be able to receive payment. Speaker 1 (06:22): So unless they have access to that, as you, as a parent, they're not going to be able to do this very easily until they a bit older and have a bank account that could be verified. And as we know, fake IDs are a thing. So if someone's old enough to be able to get ahold of a fake ID, that's certainly an option that they may use. So on the platform right now, a lot of times it's amateur creators, but it has been talked about enough that some of the creators are celebrities like Cardi B. And I don't know who some of these other ones are that I'm finding in this article that I found, but they do have celebrities that go on there and are making money for the ones that subscribe to their account. So a couple interesting things to look at is a couple of former child stars have created accounts on there, such as I don't know who these are, cause I don't watch regular TV haven't for a few years, but says when Disney star Bella Thorne joined in 2020, she quickly made $1 million after just a single day on the platform. Speaker 1 (07:26): And then more recently the rapper bad Babby says that there's a meme about him called Kashmir outside a few years back. He made more than that. Other one, he talked to 1 million in just six hours and that first Disney star created her account just days after turning 18, which prompted an enormous debate on the internet about whether or not this type of platform should be allowed at that age. So as far as dangers for kids as fans, you know, if you're not able to make a creator account, as fans is seeing the porn, kids are curious, they seek out different ways to view sexual content. So depending on how old they are, this may be inappropriate for them to see. I think it is for all kids. But if they're curious, this may be a route that they go to finding things. And even if you are strict with what you're doing, like I said, a couple episodes back about the trickle down effect. Speaker 1 (08:23): My definition of that trickle down effect the context that I used. It was that even if you are limiting these things for your kid, there are always going to be peers, most likely that do have free reign of their smartphones. So it's definitely something to talk to your kiddo about, be very open about, but also be aware that, you know, the kids talk and compare notes and all of that. So it's definitely something that your kiddo can be exposed to through someone else that has unmonitored access of a smartphone. So a couple other things to know about is that kids discuss this app now just like they do tick talk. They often refer to it as O F for short. And if they do find a way to create a creator account, they can be contacted by other users and could end up in situations where there's sextortion or predators after them, those types of things. Speaker 1 (09:21): I think those things kind of, you know, if you listen to this podcast and are in this space of trying to be proactive and all of that, you already know those things. So I don't necessarily need to say them, but honestly, it's just one of another, one of those things that we need to be talking to our kids about. We need to be aware about. And just as how these things pop up, I don't know how long this app has been out here, but when it gains popularity is usually when I start seeing it talked about in groups that I'm in and on parenting blogs that I follow and stuff like that. So just like anything else, this is constantly evolving and ever changing. It's not something that we're ever going to have a complete grasp on. And so that's why I always emphasize some type of parental control monitoring thing, not giving us a smartphone too quickly, setting up the boundaries for them of when they can use it and how they use it. Speaker 1 (10:09): And then just being proactive and walking this path together, knowing that we cannot avoid the digital world completely, but we absolutely need to help guide them. And then if you have something like bark or the app that I mentioned in a previous episode, inspired something similar to that or those apps, they are going to help you to walk this path and they will be on top of this before you are. One of the articles that I've read about it is on barks blog. So bark is on top of these things. They are doing the legwork for us. They are our eyes and ears and have our kid's best interest in mind. So please get one of those things. And if you need to pull back from what you've allowed, pull back from that, you were still the parent who still are the one that is responsible for guiding them into the big, huge world of life. Speaker 1 (10:59): And so pull back from that, make a course correction. If you need to follow your gut and get them a pinwheel phone or a gab phone, if need be pinwheel phone is absolutely my top recommendation. If you have a younger kid and you're wanting to figure out how to keep them connected, I have episodes about this, but tick talk, watch. I always have trouble saying those words is a great option to stay connected and to have some capabilities to text and do different things between each other and to know where they're at and like have one of those GPS zones where you know where they are and when they leave that zone, there's so many features of that. So there's a link for that in the show notes of each one of my podcasts. So there's lots of options for you other than giving the open smartphone. Speaker 1 (11:44): And at some point we have to give it. And I do think, I mean, you know, you don't necessarily have to, but I think as our kids get older, at some point we need to help guide them. It cannot be a, this is forbidden and you can't do it. I've seen so many kids that like a parent that's really strict about drinking alcohol. Then once they can drink alcohol, they just go off the deep end, drinking alcohol. So one, the approach that I've always had as a parent is to ease them into that and make them see the reality of it versus always it being this forbidden thing, because they're curious and they'll just want it more because you've forbidden it. So I think that with the phone, as a whole, with digital use, as a whole, we need to use all these tools to help us with this. Speaker 1 (12:24): But at the same time, we need to guide them in this use in, in the use of it and what we do and apps like this can have a good aspect or good side to them, but we always need to research anything new that they're wanting to download and see what other parents are saying and see what parent blogs and parent groups, what other parents' experiences are with this. And, you know, just take the time to figure out if it's something that you want to allow your kid to have. Ultimately, it's always our decision. So you make that decision for you and your family, but I hope that you found this helpful and have another little police of awareness for another thing that your kid may be coming to you asking about if they do already have a smartphone. Okay. All right. Thanks so much for listening. I'll chat with you next time. Speaker 2 (13:16): Thanks for tuning in being that mom isn't easy, but together we can be that mom's strong. Don't forget to leave a review, connect on social and join. Dolly's free community till next time. Speaker 1 (13:31): Check this out. If you are a mom that is looking to give your kiddo a phone, but you don't want to open up the world of the smartphone to them yet, check out the pinwheel phone. The pinwheel phone is the latest and greatest for dumb smartphones. It gives you absolute control over what they do and who they can contact, and we'll help them to develop healthy habits around using a phone, check out pinwheel@pennwell.com use code, be that mom 10 for a discount.

For more information on Alan, visit: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPKTLpvmGrT0JN_NGHv4BNQ/featured Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/AlanCadiz/posts Lesson business: https://hstwindsurfing.com/hst/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hstmaui/ I hope you enjoyed this episode, more interviews coming soon!   Episode Transcript: Aloha. It's Robert Stehlik with blue planet surf. Welcome to the third episode of the blue planet show all about Wingfoot foiling. And this episode is with Alan CodeHS and he is such an inspiration from the very early days of wing filing. He's put out great videos and content and all is always on the latest equipment. So it's really cool to be able to talk to him about the history of our young sport. And I just wanted it to say, honestly, that, I'm a little bit of an introvert. So for me to be able to reach out to these people and ask all these questions and what I want to know about. Yeah. And all that from my home office in the garage is such a cool thing and I really enjoying it. But to be honest, also, it is a lot of work to, set the appointments, prep for the interviews, film it, edit it, and then post it. So I'm not going to be able to do this on a weekly basis. But I'm shooting for every two to four weeks. I'm going to post a new show. This is my third show and I have another show lined up with Annie Reichert another interview coming up soon, and then I have a few more in in the works. Definitely going to keep them coming, but just not on a weekly basis. And of course, if you can't watch this whole video on YouTube, it's, it is a long interview. You can also listen to it as a podcast and on Android or Apple devices, you just open your podcast app and search for the blue planet show, and you'll be able to listen to it while you're driving or doing chores and so on. You can do other things while you're listening as well. So without further ado, please welcome the third guests to the blue planet show. Alan, Kunduz welcome to the show. It's great to have you. You've done so many great videos about wing filing and teaching people out to wink. I really appreciate that. And thank you for joining me on the show. So can we start a little bit about your background and just tell us a little bit how, your background and how you got into wink foiling eventually. Thank you, Robert. Thank you for having me on the show. I've enjoyed your first step. So it's yeah, in a wing foiling for me, like so many people have been, life-changing, it's so addictive and my path to wing foiling has been by chance, really. I come from a background of water sports But it turned out that my neighbor put together a wing to try on a foil board. Let me back up yeah start with how you grew up and all that, like way from the beginning. I'm from Kailua. Boy went to Caldwell high school grew up right near Kyla beach, just a short 32nd walk down to the beach and We lived in enchanted lakes when I was I think I went to third grade elementary, and then we moved down to the beach when I was 12 and it didn't take long before I started surfing. And the neighbor had a Hoby cat that I had access to. And when I. Turned 18. I started wind surfing. I worked at Froome sailing company. I don't know if you remember that little boat store, as you come into Kyla. And Dean was my mentor in the early days, taught me how to sail, set me up with my first wind surfer. Gave me time off to go winging or sorry, wind surfing. When the wind was up on and back then wind surfing was the rage, the addiction. And I. I went to college, but then I dropped out so that I could go wind surfing. I had a opportunity to go to Malaysia, to compete for Neil pride back then. And I thought this opportunity doesn't come along too often. I'm going to take a semester off and go to Malaysia and wind surf. And that turned into about a 10 year career in wind surfing, competitive wind surfing. And I ended up on Maui. The wind is so strong over here. I came over for a month to a two Winser for a month prior to one of the contests. And after the contest was over, I was pretty settled in and there wasn't any need to rush home and ended up staying on Maui on. And I had spent a number of years training and competing and, but I wondered, am I going back to college? What am I going to do? And I fumbled into teaching wind surfing and discovered I had a knack for it. And before too long, had a nice little business going teaching. High-end wind surfing, mainly jiving and water starting. But then people wanted to have their family and friends learn. So I started a beginner program and. The school grew. I've been based in high-tech surf sports for the last 30 years, but I worked with the majority of the shops here on Maui, teaching their clientele, the different water sports. So windsurfing was the main thing, but of course, when there was no wind, we'd teach them just going back to Kailua, growing up in Kayla. That was when Robbie nationals grew up in Kailua too. So did you went surf together with those guys? Robbie and Pete Cabrina and those guys, or? Funny, he has Pete Cabrini lived right next door, right over the next fence. Yeah. And I remember watching him wind surf and doing his first jumps and he. He was shaping boards and he was an inspiration. So I thought, okay, I gotta do this too. Robbie traveled in different circles. He was a little bit younger and it seemed to me he was always off on tour, but he brother, I went to school with his brother and Randy. Yeah. And we were partners in crime going over to windsurf diamond head. And I spent more time with Robbie. I'm sorry with Randy. Okay. Okay. So when, or how did the transition to wing foiling happened? Actually? Do you still windsurf or are you just mostly wing foiling now? Not so much wind surfing. I still run the wind surf school, although COVID has changed that right now, but my daughter is more into wind surfing than whinging. Although I'm trying to convert her to wing surfing on. From wind surfing kite surfing came along and that was all the rage. So I jumped into that and I live the kite surfing, eat, sleep tight surf, eat, sleep, kite surf did some competitions and did the whole peak, but then got over it and got more into sub paddling. We did a lot of sub. In fact, I got a picture here I can share. Yeah let's do some screen sharing. So we get a little bit of more visual stuff too. This was, we did a lot of competition. I don't know how many hundreds of Kosta runs I've done from a LICO down to Kahoot Harbor. Wouldn't be the equivalent of Hawaii, Kai to diamond head kind of thing on. That looks like one of the early SAC boards. Is that the one? No it's styrofoam, but yes, you're right. It's one of Mark rapper, horse SIC boards or sandwich Island construction. Yeah. And Mark is good. Friend of mine known him for decades. He and I, we did the sup paddling and then Kailani. Showed up with that sup board with the foil on it, that kind of rocked the world. And we looked at that and we're like, wow, that looks so cool. And backing up a couple of weeks from that video review Mark, perhaps worse. And my neighbor, Ken winter, and I were having dinner. And after a couple of bottles of wine, we've talked about. Taking one of Ken's foils and putting it on my board and Mark would do the classwork and we thought about, okay, we're going to do this. We're going to put the foil on the set board and we're going to try it out. And it never happened. And about two weeks later, Kai comes out with that video of him going down the coast now putting it together as one thing, but making it work, what Kyle did was exceptional, and I don't know if we would've had the. I don't think, I don't think we would have stuck with it as hard as it was, but after watching him, we were inspired. So we did get some foil boards, both Ken and Mark. And I, we got the foil boards and we started going from Alico when it was blowing 25, 30 knots. And right away, we learned it was really hard. And I had no foil experience and people were telling me, Oh, you got to learn behind a boat. You got to learn in the surf. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. I just want to do it going down the coast. And I was convinced I could do it. And eventually I got a LICO 200 and I could do it and I could stay up for hundreds of yards at a time. And at that point, everyone else was getting pretty good. I can remember one episode where we went. Was that on a really long race board, or what kind of board were you using at that time? At that point we were using I think they were like eight foot sup boards and we were just starting to figure out, and these were Mark was making them custom boards. We're just starting to figure out that the shorter, the board, the more easier it was to pump you didn't have that swing weight up front right on. We were getting smaller and smaller boards. And I have another picture here. Let me see if I can cue it up here. This board here. This was my latest sup board that Mark had shaped for me. I think it was just under six feet. That's about 85 liters had just the front strap, which I use to help pull up on the board, trying to get up on foil. And so it was about this time. That we were trying to go down the coast and having some success. Ken winner was right there with us and he actually was a skilled foiler. He could win sir foil. He could kite foil, but sup foil was tough for him. And the board he had was 130 liter fiberglass board. It was pretty heavy. And trying to pump that up on foil was really taking its toll on his shoulders. One afternoon he was out there in the driveway with this little inflatable wing and, we had seen wings have been around for a long time. And Ken winter is your neighbor, right? So you can see him in his, in your neighbor's driveway playing around with his inflatable toy. Yes. A little background on Ken he's been involved in wind surfing and water sports, his whole life. I first met him in Kailua and the, I think it was 1981 or 1982 Pan-Am windsurfing world cup. And he actually won the event. So I didn't really know him. I knew he was the winner. Kan winner was the winner. And then later on, when I went on tour, I competed with him the number of different venues. But he's always stayed with it as a board designer. Is that kite designer, windsurf designer, and probably the last few years more kite surfing. So he's he's getting new prototypes all the time out there, testing them in the Maui waters and the of wind. And so I knew he had access to, to prototypes. So anyway, he's out there with this inflatable wing and my first impression it was something like you'd get at K-Mart, a little blow up toy. And I thought, what is he doing with that? Can you explain that he was going to use it to get up on foil and go down the coast with us? And I thought he really wants to be out there with us. And then the entertainment began, we'd go out and Alico. And Mark and I would make a left turn and head towards Colley Harbor, and Ken would be going out to see like, where's he going? He'd go over the horizon before we'd see him. And then we'd seen him coming back and I didn't know it at the time, but he had a hard time. I'm going deep, a goofy foot. He needed to switch to regular foot to go deep or to go straight down, wind. And so it was difficult for him and he didn't like most of us, we go to the Flatwater spot, in the Harbor or maybe down to canola, I think on a wahoo, you go over to where is it near Pearl Harbor. I've seen some videos that K lagoon Island. Yeah, that's a good, big, beautiful spot there. So remember we're going out in 25, 30 knots, and he's trying to figure out how to go down wind. And it was entertaining for Mark and he had incredible yard sales where it's like, Oh, is he okay? Wait. Okay. Yeah, I see him. He's back on his board. Did our, Oh no, he's lost his wig. You'll give chance. We'll get the ring. And that happened a few times. And so this went on, I think it was may of 18 when you start. So not that long ago, really think about how quickly the sports progressed. That's true. So it was later towards the fall that Mark and I were waiting for him. And I saw him coming down the swell and he was surfing right. And surfing, left and surfing. And each time he would turn the wing. And I just looked down. I said, that is poetry in motion. I'm ready to try this. And at the end of the run he let me try it. And I fumbled out and fumbled in. But just that short little run, I got to my feet and got it going for a few seconds. And I'm like, okay, I want to try this some more. So that first wing was that like a prototype made by duotone or was it like who, how, who made it and how was it made, built and stuff like that? Duotone has a factory and they, I'm not even sure where it is in Asia or wherever they make their product. And he dials up a plan on his computer, sends it off via email and a short time later he's the FedEx truck is pulling up. Okay. So that first one, did it have a boom, like the wing foil or very first one had a stretch on it. Okay. And the, they had sewn some webbing on it. That was so flimsy that just after a couple, three or four runs, the webbing has had peeled off. Not, it just deteriorated. And then his first one with a boom, I'm not sure what he did. I think he went to the hardware store and he bought a mop or something and removed the, he had the dowel and the little brackets, and then he had lashed those brackets on. And then not too long after that, he was getting a guy here on Maui to 3d print a front end. It was about that time that I took an interest in wanting to try it. So we went down to canola and the first day I, like so many of us that got my knees were rubbed raw and what I was getting rides and I was staying up wind. And remember, I'd come to the sport with knowing how to foil and. Knowing how to sail both wind surf and kite surf. So the wing was pretty intuitive for me and knowing how to foil it came together. And I'm sure I've seen other people just step on and go right from the beginning, but Yeah, I think you have the background in wind surfing and you know how to use a foil, then it's a very easy transition. That's what Zane was saying too. Like the very first time he jumped on it, he was already trying to backflip and civic guts. Yeah, but that's in St. Schweitzer. So yeah. Anyway, the first few the first, second day I tried it, I fell on the boom and broke the front end, the 3d 3d printed front end. And I said, Ken, I can make one that won't break. I've got a TIG welder. And I welded up as simple front end and we were able to lash that on and that that made a huge difference. In the tightness of the rig now, coming from a windsurf background, I've always preferred the boom. It just feels more natural to hold the boom on. And I think Ken he's do a tone, has a couple of different models. They have the unit which has the wing, the handles as well. But I prefer the echo style. Yeah. I'm the same way. Cause this is my windsurfing background. I really liked the boom. And just being able to move your hands around and describe the boom without looking for the handle and stuff like that. But I guess recently I started using wings with handles too, and I kinda got used to that. And there's some advantages to to that, to the handles. I think one thing about the duo Tom booms is that they're add quite a bit of weight to the wing. And you do notice that when you try a later wing. They are coming out with a new model here soon, but the time by the time this interview airs, I think they'll have announced their new product. And I've got some video of that. Yeah, let's talk about that new that's the duotone slick wing, right? We've already seen the videos and stuff of it, which is an interesting concept. So it combines a an inflatable struck with a stiff boom kind of attached to it. Yes, let me see. So it's the slick incorporates the boom into the strep. One of the it's a lot lighter. Yeah. I don't know all the details, but I can tell you that the length of the boom here is the same for all the different sizes. I think they're going to go from a two and a half meter all the way up to a seven meter. With half increments. So four, four, five, five Oh five, five, et cetera, on. And the same boom will fit all the models. So you can just buy one boom for your quiver, or you can buy a boon for each one. Now they also come in carbon as well as the aluminum and the aluminum boons are gonna have a little bit of a oval shape to them, which are very comfortable on your hands. And it gives you a sense of where the wing is without looking at it, what position that wing is in. I know that the carbon one is about a half a pound lighter than the aluminum one and just the size of it is going to be considerably lighter than the echo. And the boom just slides into these nylon pouches on the front and back, I guess it looks like it. Yes. Now the, when you S when you look at that front, let me see if I can get a little bit better angle here that front attachment that's going to be changed slightly. There's there's going to be some padding, some webbing straps that actually Velcro to hold that in. Apparently the guys in Europe, when they were doing tricks, where they back winded that was coming loose. So they've modified it. This is it. This is actually not a production wing. It's one of the prototypes with the logos on it. So there's still a few more changes to make, but for the most part, this is what the wings will look like. So I'm wondering you're saying the boom is the same length for all sizes. So on the bigger wings, have you. Like sometimes I like to put my hand way in the back, like when you're doing a duck jive tag type of turn or or going steep up when you, you want to put your hand way back sometimes. Is it, do you ever feel like you want to put your hand further back then the boom goes or does that no, it's not an issue because the wing is so much tighter. That the range of sheeting in and sheeting out is very tight. It's very tight wing. I don't think I haven't had that problem. So how does it feel on the wave when you're luffing it behind you? Attracts really nice, better than the unit was. I haven't written the unit. I'm sorry. I meant echo the echo, the one. Yes. It's better than the echo. Now that the, if you think of the center strut as on, but the center stride is like the keel in the wind, or like the tail on a kite, it's going to keep the wing pointed into the wind because the strut acts like the rudder echo never had that. And that's one reason why it oscillated so much. Oh yeah. That makes sense. You have to remember a little bit back in. It was 18 that can started and the fall of 18 on it started to get out in videos and social media. And all of a sudden everyone was interested, not just Enthusiasts, but manufacturers, can you make a little video of it? Like action or dispensary? So one of the Delta things with, unlike the echo with the center, strut, it floats. Now if you're used to, that's nothing new. If you're using a wing that on has a center structure. But it's really nice compared to the echo when it sits on the water. It doesn't say that the bloom doesn't sink in when the wind catches it. Yeah. That's nice. Now, when do you think this will be actually in ready in the stores? When can we get our first shipment at blue planet? You're asking the wrong guy here. That's the one thing that's been frustrating me with the duo times is they're kinda hard to get and hard to know when we can actually get them, I think it's not just do a Tom. I think some of it can be chalked up to, the worldwide pandemic, they had to shut their factories down just like we did to, shut our restaurants down and on the supply chain was effected. I know that they were having trouble getting cloth. And this is just secondhand information I'm hearing from my neighbor. I think he did tell me that they have produced a number of units already. But then there's shipping, if it's coming by boat and you heard about that content container ship that went down well, not went down, but all the containers fell over. Yeah. Apparently high-tech had a number of F1 wings. In one of those containers. Oh, wow. So a lot of products was lost there. So it's, I don't know if it's just duo tone. Maybe the other manufacturers have different sources, but no, it's the same. I guess ozone has their own factory, so they're Little bit more it's more clear, like how long it's going to take and when they're going to ship it and stuff like that, you can, it's easier to predict, but yeah, I know. I know. Everybody's I know just the materials you have to order six months in advance. So this is a video that I put together with the little GoPro speedometer. And what I can tell you about the performance of these wings is that they are head and shoulders better than anything I've written. They're super tight. They go up wind unbelievable that the outline. You know that they have a square shape, so that wing tip, you can bring it right down low to the water. And it's really efficient. If the wing tip does catch, it clears really easily. Yeah. They're really tight. Now this is a four or five though that I'm using. And this was just a couple of days ago. The wind's been cranking here. And I was really powered up with this four or five or 20 miles per hour. That's pretty fast. So that's a port or starboard. Tack is my weak side. I'm a regular foot. So this is my stronger side. And this is costly Harbor that we're looking at. Turn the sound down. Whoa, there you go. At 26 miles per hour. That's. Yeah, that's impressive. What foil are you using? What, yeah. What do you have any advice on the foils on I'm using a GOFO? Gofoil on, I have all their I have a lot of the different models on I mentioned earlier. I have the 200, that's where I started and it's where I start. When I'm teaching people, I use the 200 on. I also have the GL series as well as the NLS and the one I'm writing in this video is it's actually a custom on towing. I think Al's only made a few. I think he, he gave one to some of the big wave to tow surfers on the North shore of Oahu. Slick. I heard about that. I think Derek Hamas, Saki has one of those, maybe I think I've seen it. So it's not one that's I don't know if he's planning to bring that to market. Let's see 28 miles an hour was your top speed. It looked like that's pretty, pretty amazing. Yeah. Now here's another wing. This is from more recently and it's turn the sound down. This is one of the prototypes. From several months ago I'm lucky enough that can, let's meet, use some of the older the stuff that didn't make the cut and, he'll make a wing and he'll figure out, okay, this works really well. And this doesn't work so well. And there's been a number of people on Maui that have been recipients of the seconds on the really bad ones end up in the trash. The really good ones he keeps. And then some of the others like this one, and this is a three-three and it's blowing. Gosh, it was gusting up to 40 this day. And my first run, the wing was under inflated. My wife was using it. I don't think she pumped it up hard enough. So I came back and pumped it up and then did another run. Now the foil that I'm using is I don't think it's going to be available unless out puts it into production, but he is working on another wing that another foil that is foils are underwater wings are in the air working on another foil. That is considerably faster. He, let me take a run on it and I didn't have the speedometer when I used it. But it felt really fast. I'm hoping he'll get me one of those when they come into production. Yeah. And then, I guess faster foils are usually smaller surface area and thinner profile, that's and then. More high aspect type of shape. Is that what makes them fast? Would you say? Or what's how did it look? Smaller, thinner equals speed, but of course you're going to need more wind and more skill to get up the speed to get going and get up on the foil. Yeah. One thing that I've found now, when I first started teaching, I had them LICO two 80. I don't know if you have one of those. Yeah. That was like super bouncy when they went on the original mass, right? Yeah. I read that in the early days. The two 80 I thought would be really good for teaching people and it does foil it about a walking speed, but there's so much drag that you really have to push the thing hard. And for people who are, excuse me, for people who are just learning, how to use the wing, trying to power that wing, to push the board up on foil it. And actually the 200 people did better on the 200 because they, there was less drag and they could get it up to foil speed easier. And what I've found is that in my own learning, as I've graduated down in smaller and smaller wings, that. The tiny wing does take more speed to get going, but there's less drag to push it through the water. So it seems like you can get up to that takeoff speed. Easier. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Makes sense. Yeah, I've got that same experience. So when you say you still use the Maliko 200 for teaching people how to wing. Yeah. Yes. Now I did do one modification. I cut the mass down from 24 to 15 inches. Oh, wow. 15 inch mass. Okay. Yeah. And that's nothing new, there's been other foil manufacturers that have made different mass lengths for beginners. Is it safer to, right? You don't when you breach it on crashes from as high, sorry. Yes. In fact, when it does breach it's a rude drop, but usually. They'll maintain enough speed to kick it back right up again. And the importance, you know of not too high, not too low. That makes sense. Do you have so many good videos teaching how to, to wing foil and and then yeah, actually also you're you have that Patrion channel and to sign up for this yesterday and it's really cool. I don't know if you mind me sharing some of these posts, but I guess yeah, if you pay like $5 a month or so. You can choose what, how much you want to contribute, but then you get access to all these really detailed tech, technical videos on how to wing foil, which is really cool. Like this one here about attacking. I watched yesterday and it's I'm going to turn off the sound here, but it just has really good instructions. I have to say. It's ex what really well done, Alan, and And yeah. So if you're learning how to wink fun, I guess that's something too, like maybe talk a little bit about how the pandemic has affected your business and, like how you transitioned to doing more of this kind of virtual coaching and things like that. Sure. Thank you. I I've been running the winter school since 85. No. I came to Maui to wind surf, but like I said, I skipped college and I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And I fell into to what I love to do. And that's teach wind surfing, then develop the business and it's grown over the years. We've diversified into surfing and kiting and sup and although wind surfing and sup is our bread and butter. I'm sorry. Windsurfing. Kiting is our bread and butter. When foiling came along on it sorry. It's just, the video is distracting me when when foiling came along wing foiling on, I thought, Oh, this is something I could teach in the school. And you remember Ken, he had this stream of prototypes coming into the neighborhood here and. People were really intrigued by foiling that's my wife, they were really intrigued by foiling and they wanted to do it. And Robert business was really good. I was the only one that had the wings, none of the shops there were, there was nothing available by them yet. Yeah. So I was sharing the wings and giving lessons and turning people on anyone that asked, I'd let them try it. And we were poised on. I was getting boards and sales and training instructors, and we were poised to, teach wing surfing and then COVID hit and changed everything. Shut everything down, turned Maui into a car park, full of tourist cars on all of the restaurants were closed and we just hunkered down. We went to Costco's everybody else and load it up and So during this downtime, besides doing the house maintenance and the things that everyone did, I thought that I would put together some videos or do a video on this is how we teach wind foiling. And that was, I don't know if you have that one. That's a, it's on YouTube. It's my daughter's to star on, but that one put it up and. This one very hard to get up in Seattle. It's older. It's older. Huh. Oh, maybe on all the videos. He, Oh, part one part two. That's it right there. So I just took my daughter down to the beach nearby and took my dog down and took the video camera and just put together. This was the introduction. That's my prom foil board that I use for regular surfing on. And it works on the wing too. That's anyway, on. We just went down and had some fun and my daughter, at this point, she was able to foil and go up wind and we were just going to use the big board. Yeah. So I put her on the big board and we just went through, this is how we teach. And it was the idea was a infomercial on what we're doing at the school. And there was so much positive feedback that I thought I'd do part two. And that's the one where I'm getting up on foil in the Harbor. And people were so appreciative that I was doing that. And a friend said you should have a Patrion account now, which I didn't know what that was. And I went home and looked at it and realized, this is me right now. Because again, COVID had shut down the business. And I thought this is a way that I could take my skills online and teach people and not just one at a time at the beach, like I normally do, but be able to reach everybody. So that's what I've been working on through the COVID thing. It's I'm still in the red, but I'm getting close to, paying off my equipment, but the. Appreciation far outweighs any monetary support, that, people telling me that I've helped them do this and do that. And thank you as well. You do the same thing with so many of your videos. I How many videos have you done that helped people? It's awesome. Yeah. Thanks Alan. For me, it's different though, because for us, depending on it was actually like boom times because everybody. And nobody could travel. People had extra spending money that stimulus checks, and then they just, bye. Yeah. You could go out in the water. That was the safest thing you could do. So it's been actually very good for our business in terms of equipment sales, but yeah, in terms of tourists, there's nothing right now. Still, I think it hasn't really recovered at all. Let me let me do a couple of quick screen shares as well. Okay. Let me turn mine off again here. Hold on. Okay. So yeah, I'll let you do the screen share. Okay. This is my daughter and this was her first session with the wing on a winter Ford with the daggerboard on the wing she's using, this was the first. I guess you'd call it a echo prototype. This wing was really solid. This thing really changed everything. It has five buttons or something. Yeah. It had battens prior to the battens. Ken was using these wings just to go down wind and you didn't meet any battens because he was holding it like a Spinnaker sale. It wasn't until we started sailing at canal hall, going up wind that they were flapping. And that's really where a lot of the changes began. I met my wife, wind surfing. This is an old picture. I met her in 87 and we have two daughters together. My oldest one on my left. She's living in California, married my younger one. Is living at home here with her boyfriend and she's having a really good time. She works up at the crater. I don't want to say it's a as a park ranger, but she's working up at the summit with people up there and she also winged foils. But she prefers to rock climb, free climb on. Let's see, where do you go on Maui for free climbing? Is that there's a number of places. There's one over in key hay and over on the backside. And I don't have any pictures of that cued up. This is my wife when she realized that my old board, her board. Fits in the back of her car. Big smile. Yeah. He loves wing foiling because it's just so easy. You pump up the wing and you're ready to go. Yeah. Assuming you have a car that fits your foil and she's also COVID has. Changed our relationship for the better previously she would man, my office at high-tech here, our office. I don't know if you can see this. So I have this little kiosk in high-tech and pre COVID. She would spend her days in there meeting and greeting people and everything to do with the school. We have a. A school van that goes down to the beach for the wind surf year on. And when COVID hit, that was all shut down, but we could go to the beach and wing. She's been putting her time in, out on the water. There's my old sup board, which is perfect for her. It's about 85 liters. She's got the a that's one of the prototype wings. That's the one that I was doing the speed run on earlier. A lot. And she's, she's making about almost nine out of 10 of her jobs now, which is something that she didn't quite do in winter. If you, even though she's been a lifelong windsurfer, In a lot of ways, like I always struggled doing tax on a small wave board windsurfing, but on a wing. It's actually, I find it way easier to do attack because you don't have to jump in front of the wing and stuff like that. So in a lot of ways, when winging is actually easier than windsurfing, I find one of the things that makes it so addicting besides the feeling of floating on air of snowboarding and powder, if you've ever skied or snowboarded, the feeling of powder is exceptional. On there's no pounding. But the, besides all those great things, and it's quick to set up and an easy is that each time you go out, maybe even each run, do you learn something new? And it doesn't matter if you're a beginner, just holding the wing for the first time or floating around on a big board. Forget the foil, just sail the board around. I've had people. Do the lessons on the big board and say, this is so fun, and it is, but you haven't even got on the foil board yet and you're loving it. It gets better. It's truly addicting. Th this being up on the floor that sensation of flying over the water, it feels more like you're flying than going over water. So it's this, that is so cool. And you know that, I don't know if you've been watching any of the America's cup racing last year with the catamaran and this year with the monohulls. It's absolutely incredible how fast they go. Yeah. And us mere mortals will probably never, ever get the chance to ride on one, forget owning one on, but you can have your own personal hydrophobic yacht right there. For relatively inexpensive and in a way it's, I don't know, to me it's almost more interesting because you're basically controlling it with your body weight, not, it's not like a mechanical control. It's like you're controlling the foil, it's your body weight. I would say it's one of the more freer feelings that you can have and the. Again, it was in may of 18 that Ken first got that blow up wing. Now he's not the first handheld wings have been around for a long time. And there's another guy flash Austin. He deserves the credit for being the first one on Maui to put a wing together on a foil board. And he went out and foiled out and back and got some video. And then I think his wing broke apart and he never put it back together. It didn't stick with it, but prior to him, I saw the footage of him doing that. And I thought, no, that looks crazy. Yeah. Nobody really thought that it could be what it is today. And I believe it's Tony Lugosi that sometime around 15 or 16 made an inflatable wing, not necessarily with the intention of foiling, but I think he just, put together an inflatable weighing instead of ones with struts and spars and on. And he. Apparently put that on the foil board and made it work on a foil board more as a novelty on, I don't think he thought that it would take off, but he was ahead of his time there and nobody has a patent on it or anything like that. So it's just nice that's open for wide open for development and stuff like that, where people don't have to worry about licensing it and so on, right? Yes. So it's on. Really since I think Ken is probably responsible for this resurgence or, this round of it anyway, but he, it was only may of 18 that it started. Yeah. Yeah. And I always wondered why you, how you got the all the new wings and the new prototypes so early, but now I know it's cause you're Ken when there's your neighbor. So no wonder, but obviously also, you're a really good spokesperson for duotone. I think that's that? Your videos are one of the reasons why I got into Wingfoot foiling too, I'm not an official spokesperson for duo tome. I'd rather think of myself as an ambassador for the sport right on. I'd like to see everyone, try it and Excel. It's just that my position is that I've been using these duotone wings. Okay. Let's go talk a little bit more about equipment. You said, and I don't know if you have some video of yourself using your board and stuff like that, but you said you only use a front foot strap. You don't really jump because because you're worried about injury and you often use a harness and things like that. So can you talk a little bit about, for myself, I've never even tried a harness. I felt it's not really necessary. I feel like it doesn't, there's not as much pressure in the wing as when you're windsurfing. So what made you start using a harness and and yeah, maybe talk a little bit about the gear you use and why you set it up the way you did. Now? I did do a video on YouTube. Maybe I can screen share on how to use the harness, all about the harness. Okay. And this, I did this last year. Maybe even longer initially it was the boom is right there and you're sailing along and you think I could probably use a harness here, so yeah. So let's talk a little bit about using a harness and why yeah. Why you started using it and so on. First I thought, let's just try it and see if it works. And I went and made a custom harness line and I pulled my old windsurf harness out there. It is, and put it on and went out and gave it a few runs and decided, yeah, it was possible, but I didn't really need it. Didn't you know, it wasn't really happening. And. What I realized now is that the harness I made a custom harness line, a real long one, thinking that I needed a long one because the wing is way up here. But when it's over your head, there's no load on the wing, it's when you're going up wind that the Boone comes down the wing tips, low to the water. And when you're going up, when there's a lot of lateral pole and it's at that point that you need or you. Would find a harness line comfortable. So I gave it another try. I pulled out the regular harness line that decline just regular windsurfing harness line and got my old kite harness out. That's the one we're looking at now. And maybe later people watching can watch this video to know what we're talking about here. But the main thing is that you have a hook that allows you to quickly get out of the. The harness line. Yeah. You don't want it as small as a kite surfing hook yet, or the yes, but more open, not yet. And then, when you have the hook getting on your board, you can damage your board with the hook. So I go through a couple different methods to get on the board. And there's another video that I have on YouTube as well, where I'm riding my prone board. And I talk about how to get up when you're using a harness hook. Talk about the length of the harness line and the placement. So would you say when you hold the boom it's about where your elbow is? Is that about the length or the middle? Yeah. The, we used to grab the boom and then pull the loop down to your elbow. And that was, or to the crotch in your arm here. And that was a good general ballpark. Some people like them shorter. Some people like them longer. There's only a handful of people using harness lines over here at Ken winners, one of them on, and. There's a few other people that have tried them on and I'm getting people online talking about them. And there's certainly a lot of chatter online. Yeah. A lot of people talking about it online here on a wahoo. I haven't seen anybody using a harness, but but yeah, I find it interesting. Not intriguing on it's not necessary. You don't have to have it. There are some drawbacks, it often it'll hit you in the face when you're trying to pump up on the board. But if it's swings a lot on you're wearing the harness hook, you can't lie on the board unless you unclip it. Because you'll damage your board. You just can't lay flat on the board if you have to paddle or something, but it's easy enough to unclip it and let it hang to the side on. And like I said, it's a little harder to get on the board sometimes, but there's ways around that. When you're in the harness going up wind with the bigger wing on, as soon as you get comfortable with it, you'll love it. Yeah. I can see that cause you're basically just using your body weight to, to power up the not you don't use your arms any more, really just for control. Same as when you went, surfing it in higher wind with a smaller wing. It is a little scarier to hook in, we haven't had that many light wind days over here on, or I haven't had that many sessions out on my six meter. I do have a six meter wing and going out in 10 to 12 knots with the harness and going up wind is a dream it's so comfortable and steady. Your weight does the work. Your arms are just relaxed. It's a really wonderful feeling. On, you're not gonna use the harness going downwind, just the way that, excuse me, the way the wing folds out. You're just not going to hook in. It's really just for going up, wind on. And I there's a shot of my foot straps on, I only have the front foot straps. I switch like a windsurfer I'll switch tacks after each run. Sometimes I might do a short run where I ride switched or tow side. I don't have a back strap because I moved my back foot around a lot and I did have it for a while and I fell and tweaked my ankle. And I decided that I don't really need the back strap because I'm not jumping. And. It just was getting in the way and I don't want to injure myself on, and I made a pledge early on to myself that I wouldn't take this sport to the air because where does it stop? And I'm really glad I did because seeing balls Mueller doing those loops. He's inspiring, and in the beginning he was throwing himself up in the air and let's try this or let's try that. And just coming down in the heap. In fact I made a comment on one of his Instagram pages that you have nine lives and that one just costs you one. The one where he goes in the shore break, it just gets eaten up in the shore break. Yeah, with the foil County going over him and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I. I injured myself a number of years ago. It was pretty serious back injury and I've healed up a hundred percent, but you told me about this injury yesterday. Can you tell us a little bit more how exactly how that happened? So I was surfing at hokey-pokey on a relatively big day and I did a late takeoff and I free fell head first and I put my arms up. To protect from the board. And I landed on the water like this, instead of, like this let me stop the screen sharing so you can show us what you're. Yeah. Okay. So how did what happened? I was surfing Keepa and I just did a late tape off and went overhead first. And I put my arms up in the air to keep from getting hit by the board. And I impacted the water like this instead of, like this. And it was a compression fracture on my spine. What paratroopers get landing hard in their bone. And it was, I've healed fine. But it was pretty close to what they call a burst fracture, where pieces of the bone enter the spinal cord and paralysis occurs. So I had a near life-changing experience there. And I think that was when I was 55, 54. So since then I've kinda I've just decided not to take it to the air. I've stopped kite surfing. I don't kite surf anymore because I don't trust myself on to not jump. And on wing foiling is something that's less. I it's a lot safer than so many other things out there. And I see Some older folks down at the beach and the oldest relative, I'm 59. I know when I paddle out at who Keepa, I'm like the oldest one out there. Now that was kin winter catching a wing tip while he was in the harness. That's one thing that if you're going to try a harness, you want to be aware of, if that wing tip catches again, it doesn't end up well, And I talk about this in the video with sound yeah. Catching right here. And then you're in the heart instead of falling on the wing, you can't get out, you can't unhook. So if you're going to try the harness, that's something to consider. This is not something that, that you're going to go and use the first week of wing foiling. You want to have some skill. All right. So yeah. The other thing I wanted you to talk about was this cool move that I really was intrigued by. And I still haven't been able to pull it off, but that's the starfish. So how do you get into it in the first place? So you I kinda, I sorta did this by accident. Just hold it right there for a second. If you will. Yeah. Yeah. I was giving a lesson to a novice sailor and he was out, I believe he was on the, he was on the big board. I don't know if it was the wind surfer or the big foil board. And he went out and he did the turn and he had flipped the wing over any came out of it the other way. And I'm like, wow, how did he do that? He did it by accident. But the way he jived the wing and spun the board right around. I said, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to go try that. So I went out and I was trying to do what I saw him do. And I'm not sure what I did, but I was flipping the wing over just like this. Okay. And the wind got behind me and something like that. And I said, okay, I'm going to. Try and do that and get the wing behind me. So I went out a few more times and I was able to flip the wing over. And as you turned down wind, you might back up there a little bit, as you turned down, wind, you're moving with the wind. So the amount of pressure on the wing is minimal. So if you want to do this, it's relatively easy. You start your job. You turn the wings so that the wing tip drags in the water or starts to invert. So you flip the wing over. Okay. And then here, turn the corner so that you're going with the wind. And at this point, as long as it's not blowing a Gale, so the wing is almost weightless because you're moving with the wind. At this point, you're coasting on the foil. You get your hand on the handle and you can bring it up behind you. Now at this point if there's enough wind. The wind will keep the wing against you, just friction. So I did this, I was goofing off with it and I was going down the coast thinking, okay, this is pretty cool. How am I going to get out of it? I don't know. I'll figure that out when I get there. And so I got down there and I reached up and grabbed the handle and flipped it over and sailed away. And I thought that was cool. And I had put in a full day and I packed up and I was driving home and Alex Garrett calls me and says, dude, I went to get my camera. I got to get your new move. This is Alex. Yeah. Filming this. So I'm like, nah, I'm like, no, I'm good Al. And he's Oh man, you gotta do it, man. Someone else is gonna do it and claim your move. And I'm like, eh, And I'm halfway home and I'm looking, the wind's blowing. It's a beautiful sunny day. And I thought, we should do this. Why the sun's out. So I turned around, I went back, called them up and said, I'm coming back. And I went out and did this. So it's a fun move. It's relatively easy to do and easy to get out of on. The trick is you turn down when, and you've slipped the wing upside down and then get the handle and pull it around behind you. And then to get out of it, you just reach it up and bend over it. It's flip or jive over your head. So cool. I've yet to do it, on a coast run. I think we're going to go today. It's blowing pretty good over here. I think we're going to do an illegal run windy day, for sure. Yeah. Oh, okay. So you ended up going back to the beach, setting up again and then pulling it off like that. That's a good sign. Yeah, that's awesome. All right. I think we already went over the time we allotted. So appreciate you talking about all this details and What do you do? Like to stay healthy? What are your secrets to staying fit and young at your, Oh, just trying to stay active, just trying to do something every day. I I haven't been doing much cross training lately on, since I started doing the videos, I've had a lot of time sitting in front of the computer. What I have been trying to get out probably like four times a week to wing foil on. So that's been my main exercise wing forelimb. How long do you go out in the, on the water? Like I find sometimes when I go out for too long, I just start hurting myself. Do you have a certain amount of time? That's good for you or you just stay out as long as you can. Usually I'd say around two hours is my average session. Remember I have a harness. And when I did that speed run with the little yellow wing, just a couple of days ago, my wife was using it and she doesn't use the harness line. So I'm like, okay, I just it's really windy. I want to go get the GoPro speedometer going. And I. I went out and I did my first speed run and I turned around and I'm going back up when, and I'm like, Oh no harness line Ang. And just those two runs without the harness line, my shoulder was starting to hurt, and I don't know how many miles I've paddled surfing and how many times I've wind surfed. It's my shoulders. I'm not going to get a knee replacement. It's going to be a shoulder replacement. Yeah, that's pretty common. If I have to, I hope I never have to do that, but my shoulders have more miles than my knees or hips on. But. I rely on the harness more than I realized, trying to go up in there. It's just that time of hooking in and resting your arms, resting your shoulders. Just that one leg up wind, then you're fresh to go downwind. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. For me too. Yeah. Sometimes I just put my arms straighten out my arms and hold the wing over my head and just relax a little bit. And even without a harness, you can, but the, I can see how, if you have bad shoulders, it's not an easy thing to do after a while. All right. So anything, do you have any sponsors that you want to plug or anything that you want to mention like that? I I'd like to thank Alex Guera for taking care of me with the foils. He makes a great product. Ken and duotone have been very generous with their products on, and I have to admit that I haven't used a lot of other stuff, but there's, a lot of everyone has a lot of good stuff out there and it really doesn't matter what you use. The main thing is that you're using it, that you get out there. And this sport you learn every time you go. And it's a good physical workout. And you think about it too. So it gets you thinking on you won't regret it on. I. If there's one thing one negative thing. And that is that it's very addicting and it's gonna it's gonna take some of your time from something else, which for better or worse and yeah. And your wallet will feel a little bit lighter too. There's that aspect. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you want to leave people with? And any last words? Just to get out on the water and give it a try, you won't regret it. And if yeah it's good to try new things. And living here in Hawaii, living here in Hawaii, most of our days are like other people's vacations. Take advantage of where you live and what you do. You certainly living your dream and that, and I hope That things get back to where you can actually make money with your business. Again, sorry to hear that you're struggling right now, but hopefully people can support your patron account and your great instructional videos online. Keep posting that kind of stuff. That's really cool. Very helpful. I think for people learning, I think we're starting to come out of it here. Then you can see light at the end of the tunnel. I think we're going to, we're going to be all right. Yeah. All right. For this for the boots on it, show who do you think I should interview next? Do you have any any ideas on who I should talk to? Let's see. I can think of a few different people while Ken would be interesting on, but you said he's you might not want to talk to me. Can you ask him. Yeah, I can ask him. In fact, I can I'll try and send you his email Mark rappel, Horst. He's a very interesting guy. He did SIC. He did the paddling he's into whinging for sure. Alex  he's got a lot of history on yeah. Robbie Nash is of course an icon on some up and coming people over here on Maui. I think probably one of the best foils here on Maui. And he's an exceptional winger too, is came to wild. He's amazing. He has some really strong sweet moves. It was down at the Harbor not too long ago. And he goes, Hey, Alan, I figured something out. And I'm like, what is it? Can he says, when you bring the wing down to the rail, you can go so much faster up wind. And I said, Oh no, you figured that out. Okay. It's like closing the gap on a wind surfboard right now. Yes. And I talk about it in the video for how to go up wind. Yeah, but he is so fast and so maneuverable, he's just a real pleasure to watch. And he always uses this pretty small wing too, right? He's just like smaller wings and just once he gets going, then he doesn't need as big of a wing. You're talking smaller foil or smaller wing, a wind wing. He does use a smaller wing. And some of his foils are pretty small, but I've seen him like glide exceptionally far. He's making his own foils and really working at it. Yeah. I've listened to some of his interviews on the progression project and he's like very thoughtful. He thinks about everything and has a lot of interesting theories and tests out stuff and he makes his own tail wings and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, he'd be definitely, he's definitely someone I want to talk to soon. Yeah. And he's just a kid too, so he's got lot of future there. Yeah. Other up and coming, let's see. There's a whole bunch of kids that are getting into it over here. Yeah. I think one of the cool things about wing foiling too, is that it's such a diverse group of people. Like you have a lot of young kids getting into it, people with a surfing background, wind surfing, kite surfing background, a lot of different backgrounds. Plus I think just people are so intrigued by it. Even if they have no water sport experience, they're interested in it. So yes, it appeals to everybody. There's a lot of old time wind surfers that I haven't seen for years. That are down there, like the old days wind surfing, but they're down there trying to figure it out on. There's another guy on nice gentlemen. Ileka 250 pounds. Oh, I'm not suggesting him for an interview, but he is on he's down there all the time. But the point is he weighs 250 pounds. And he's almost as graceful as cane. He's really smooth. He can do a lot of tricks on, there's no such thing as a 250 pound windsurfer freestyle stylist. You just, you can't be 200, 250 pound sup paddler. The big guys, they're just, I'm sorry, but there's a disadvantage when you weigh 250 pounds, but it doesn't seem to affect him. Now. He uses a little bit bigger wing than everyone else and his foil, it's an access foil. That's got a really high aspect. It's got a huge wingspan on it on, but the, the, and that I've been teaching kids to Winser for decades and it's pretty easy to put them on the raft. With the little wing and they drift out and they turn around and they drift in and with a lot of effort, you can get them planning on a little board and a smaller sale, but generally they just don't have the weight to make it work. But with foiling, I'm seeing these little kids on little wings going out and foiling and. And doing it quickly, there they're up and foiling in a matter of days. And they're out there riding around where trying to get them to do that on a wind surfboard would take a year or two. I have always felt like on for me personally. I brought a lot of background, wind surfing and kiting and everything to this sport. And I was one of the guys that just stepped on and went, made it go. And I really got a head start on everyone else. But when I see these kids that are coming on there, where are they going to take this sport? Not just, in their maneuverability, but when they start doing these tricks in the surf. Really just starting to stress the surface of what's possible. I think I, there's going to be so much progression in the sport, it's just amazing. But actually I wanted to ask you if you have someone that has no experience in water sports, no foiling background, and they want to learn how to wing for like how, what is your progression and teaching them like, like how do you start them out? I start them off on the big winter Ford with a dagger board. And we didn't talk about this in the video. Maybe. I don't know if you can add that in later, but a lot of people show up with a sup board and the support has the volume to get them out there to float around. But without the daggerboard, they end up downwind very quickly. The daggerboard does two things. One is it prevents lateral slip and it's at a pivot point. To steer the board right on. I know that they, some of the shops, I don't know if high-tech does, but I think some of the shops have like glue on or strap on daggerboards that you can put on your set boards. That, excuse me, that might be something that you could offer even as a rental, take your board that I sold you last year, put this on it, take the wing. Go down to someplace. I don't know if  has landfall on the downwind side, but someplace like Kyla Bay might where go out and learn how to sail it out, turn around and sail back with the goal of coming back to the same spot. And when my students are able to push that wind surfboard almost onto a plane. That tells me that they're loading the wing, that they've got enough sense to sheet in and sheet out. And when they can come back to the same spot, they know how to turn around and they know on how to steer the wing to get the board to go up wind. Once they can do that. Then the next step is to go on the foil board. And, I wanted to ask you about, and you never take them behind the boat or anything like you don't do the full practicing behind the boat. You don't really need that. I guess once he know how to handle the wing, that's your power source right now in a perfect world behind a boat would be great. Maybe an eco oil might be the next best thing. Have you done much equaling? Yeah, I have done it a bunch. Do you offer it lessons at all? Do you have them in the shop? No longer offered lessons or rentals, just because of the cost of liability insurance, but we refer that. We refer people. There's a company called  experience here on Oahu that we refer people to not see it. . I ideally, in a perfect world behind a boat or jet ski, or even on an equal  would be great. But the reality of I'm sure it's just as hard on Oahu as it is. Maybe it's worse here on Maui on to get permits, to do. Stuff behind a boat. You have to go through the state and get the permit to the state and Oh, just to, yeah. Not many places you can do it actually. That's true. And then even here on the North shore on the rules and regulations for jet-skis during the winter, during the whale season, you need to have permits and license, and it's a thrill craft. If you're going to go in the surf, you need the toe thing and it's just. Yeah, it's the reality, but I've had a lot of people who come with no foil experience, get the get the feeling for the wing on the big board and then apply it to the foil board. The big flow with the short mask, with the big floaty board on a lot of people have learned that way on. And then they're off to get their own equipment and practice on their own on. Awesome. Yeah, I and I think whinging is probably the easiest way to learn how to foil, other than behind a Boulder on the NFL, probably. It's definitely much easier, I think, to learn how to wing foil or it's a four line with a wing then in the waves, cause then there's a whole. Additional complication of calving to catch a wave and get up on your feet and all that kind of stuff. If you're surfing and even stand up, paddle surfing is not that easy to catch the wave and feeling. I had that discussion with a guy this morning. Who's actually our email is actually a winger that can foil and it's too windy over here. The last couple of days, it's just been smoke on the water. So he says he wants to try prone. On his set board and I'm like he's got an 80 liter board and I'm like, no, that's too big. You need to get a prone board if you want us if you want a prone and yes, it's easier. It's going to be easier to prone in the surf than it is to suck in the surf. He has no sup experience and trying to sup for the first time you need to have a real easy Waikiki style way, but of all the sports, whether it's kite surfing, Or wind surfing prone, surfing sub foiling. If you've never done any of that, that it's going to be easiest to learn. I believe with a wing. I agree, ideally behind a boat or a  might be the next best thing next easiest way. But again, the logistics of. Getting a boat you need to drive or you need a place. I have a boat and I took my wife out. We did a snorkel trip to Molokini and I brought the foil along and my daughter and her friends, and we all took turns on the foil. And my wife got up and scissored Oh, Damaged your ribs. And she was out for six months. And then, so she's better. So we'd go back to the beach and we're going to Duane foil. And she goes out on the wing full board and neither one of us thought of a vest. And she fell and did the same thing another six months. So she's got a late start. Oh, she is determined though to happen and she's still going. That's awesome. Yeah. Wow. I've watched a lot of your videos and you do a really great job of, filming and editing and it's really easygoing and the information is really clear and concise and Yeah, that's a lot it is a lot of work too, to put out good content, but I try, just try to be consistent, tried to do one a week. That's my goal, and then, we definitely see a, I see a lot of rewards from that too. People appreciate it and people support our business because people know about our business because of the videos. So it's yeah, it's a win-win. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That again, that was the whole reason why I started the YouTube stuff. And then. Then the Patrion stuff just fell into place. And then I think once, once people started coming back to Maui, it'll definitely, you'll see a lot of returns from that. People are going to seek you out because of your videos. People will be like, Oh yeah, this guy knows what he's doing. So I'm sure your business is going to do well. Going forward. It's going to just get better and better planning on coming to a walkthrough to visit my dad. Oh, probably in the, he gets his second COVID shot on the 3rd of March and I thought I'd give him a week to, get solid. And then then I can come over without worrying about bringing anything. Okay. Yeah. Let's let's meet up when you here. And maybe we can do a video together to do a collaboration. Yeah, maybe I just would like to wing it. Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Flat Island is super fun actually, when the winds are right direction and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And might be too early for a South swell, but Is it Kahala? Where is it? That's where we ended up going a lot, just cause it's easy. And there's like showers and stuff like that. But diamond head is also really fun. We like going out at diamond head it's kinda like the old days of windsurfing. When there's a South swabbed diamond that gets good. And there's a few other spots like Hickam air force base. I have a, my wife is in the military so I can go there. And that's I just went there for the first time, a couple of days ago. And it was amazing. It's like a super smooth wave there. That's protected from the wind, so right by the airport runway. It's awesome. Yeah, there's a few good spots. And then on the North shore guy to go out at reviews and stuff like that, and there's some good winging on the North shore for sure. Got a lot of good spots on the wall. I got a lot of that over here. I'd rather just, I'd rather just cruise around and Kyla the mellow stuff. Yeah. And that's what Kahala is pretty nice. Kayla is good, like a lot of times for beginners, I don't really recommend it that much, especially if you're regular foot, because first of all, you're going out on your diff opposite side. So it's hard to get going. If you're not used to Being switched, having your stent switched, and then you ended up going downwind and then you have to walk back up the beach and it's, it's can be quite exhausting and it's hard to get off the beach in the first place. If you don't know how to go Upland, so it's not an not actually I find it not a great