Point of Learning

Peter talks with Jonathan Rauch about two of his books, The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth and Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy.

Peter talks with Ilana Redstone about her book The Certainty Trap: Why We Need to Question Ourselves More—and How We Can Judge Others Less.

Peter talks with Robin Bernstein about her new book Freeman's Challenge: The Murder That Shook America's Original Prison for Profit, an explosive, moving story about the entangled origins of prison for profit and anti-Black racism.

Peter talks with John Webb about his new book Molyvos: A Greek Village's Heroic Response to the Global Refugee Crisis, including resonances with John's own experience caring for Haitian migrants in the 1970s.

Peter talks with Greg Jackson of Action J Productions about their new project focusing on how and why to have respectful conversations. (Graphic by Roy Chambers)

Shayfer James discusses his songwriting process. And, you know, lots of other things.

On 5 March 2024, Peggy McIntosh was inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame. In honor of this momentous occasion, I'm re-sharing our 2019 conversation.

One hundred and eighty years ago, on 19 December 1843, the first edition of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol was published. To celebrate, I'm releasing a special version of the story produced in 2001 with William R. Mathews and The Westfield Chorale.

The heart of this special episode is the Back-to-School Address to Oakland, CA faculty and staff by Superintendent Dr. Marcus A. Foster, given in the fall of 1973. You will hear a singular voice in U.S. education urging teachers, administrators, and support staff to keep students at the center of their work—while also honoring the complexity of the challenge.

Capt. John Havlik knows a thing or two about stress. He retired in 2014 after more than 30 years of distinguished military service, nearly all of them as a Navy SEAL. He graduated from West Virginia University as the first swimmer in school history to qualify for the U.S. Olympic Swimming Trials. He served as tri-captain of the first undefeated men's swim team in WVU history his senior year. Just this spring, he defended his doctoral dissertation at the University of Pennsylvania, a study comparing stress-management strategies of U.S. National Team swimmers and Navy SEALs. Today's conversation focuses on four key commonalities: 1. Absolute trust in their training 2. Adherence to a strict routine 3. Focusing only on what they could control 4. Utilizing healthy and adaptive distractions

My remarks from the Winter Institute of the New York State Council of School Superintendents in March 2023.

Rinde Eckert is a celebrated writer, composer, librettist, musician, performer and director, but I'm not sure even this list of roles captures his extraordinary versatility. This episode focuses on his recent project of rebuilding his piano technique from the ground up.

For nearly 60 years Jonathan Kozol has been one of the most widely read and highly honored education writers in the nation. Ready for a sneak preview of his next book?

My dad's last—and maybe best—sermon, preached the day he died, 25 years ago this week.

Created in 2020 as a benefit for the Graycliff Conservancy, this very condensed performance of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol was filmed in various locations on the spectacular Graycliff Estate designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.

A departure from the usual Point of Learning format, this episode is basically the audio version of one segment from a new video series for high school English teachers that I'm putting together with Greg Jackson. Here's 22 minutes about how to approach the college essay—for writers and their teachers.

As a playwright, Ellen McLaughlin has breathed new life into ancient Greek texts. Today we focus on her versions of classic plays by Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides, exploring the questions they once raised for ancient audiences, and still raise for contemporary audiences. For instance, the major tragedians were all war veterans, writing for audiences composed predominantly of war veterans, a dynamic that has not existed in Western theatre for 2500 years. What do ancient Greeks have to teach us about the costs of war, and what we owe to veterans?

In this classic episode (recorded 11 August 2020 and released 2 September 2020), I talk with Dr. Errick L. Greene, Superintendent of Jackson [MS] Public Schools about contending with a public health crisis, systemic racism, and effective organizational leadership: it's really three episodes in one. Unfortunately, as you are no doubt aware from this week's news, Jackson is facing a new public health crisis with its chronically unsafe water supply. Things are changing on a daily basis, but as of now it's unclear when the city's residents will be able to drink from their taps again.

Sophie Brickman focuses on the intersection of parenting and technology in her book Baby, Unplugged: One Mother's Search for Balance, Reason, and Sanity in the Digital Age (HarperOne, 2021), which we'll be discussing on this episode. Brickman is a writer, reporter and editor based in New York City. Her work has appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Saveur, The San Francisco Chronicle, and the anthologies Best Food Writing and Best American Science Writing, among other places.

Highlights from my conversation with Paula Roy first dropped as a very early episode (003) in July 2017. I believe it is well worth revisiting in this moment where book-banning seems to be edging out baseball as the national pastime here in the Home of the Free, and too many legislators and governors have convinced themselves that they know more about education than professional educators do. There is plenty to critique about dominant modes of schooling, from pre-kindergarten all the way through grad school, and lots that really needs rethinking and change. But as you enter that conversation, it's important to acknowledge the expertise of professionals like Paula Roy, who have spent years thinking about what and how and why kids learn, and who have experience negotiating the competing demands of real students' individual needs and capabilities as well as changing political contexts outside the school. Above all, it's important to take students seriously, and to keep them at the center of your work. In more than 25 years as an educator, I've never met anyone who does that better than she does. This classic episode inspired not only this beautiful drawing by artist and school administrator Al Morales (called “Curriculum,” after Paula's description) but also a five-minute video exploring the difference between sarcasm and humor, with animation by Roy Chambers (available on the original show page linked below). Five years after it first appeared, “Supervision, Poetry, and Feminism with Paula Roy” remains one of the most downloaded installments of Point of Learning. LINK TO ORIGINAL SHOW PAGE SPECIAL THANKSMany people support this podcast in one way or another, through conversations, books, articles, music, and other original art. Some are able to contribute financially, for which I'm especially grateful when I have to upgrade audio equipment or buy batteries or gas for road trips. There are now two easy ways to donate—a one-time gift of any amount, or a monthly continuing contribution. LEARN ABOUT SUPPORTING POINT OF LEARNING SPECIAL THANKS to current financial supporters: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni Brand, Jake Brown, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, Robyn Lee Horn, Greg Jackson, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Tom Loughlin, Carol MacVey, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, John Opera, Gail Radford, Gail & Frank Richeson, Stacy Rodgers, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith ZemskyNEVER MISS AN EPISODE! Let me have your email address, and I'll make sure you know whenever a new episode is ready. Totally free, and only takes 30 seconds to sign up. GET SOME NEWSLETTER!

The Very Reverend Ward B. Ewing is former Dean and President of The General Theological Seminary in New York City. Dr. Ewing has met in and with Alcoholics Anonymous groups as a non-alcoholic for more than four decades, also serving as Trustee and Chair of the General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous for the U.S. and Canada. In addition to the book that grows out of that experience, Twelve Steps to Religionless Spirituality: the Power of Spirituality with or without God, which we discuss in this episode, he has also written one volume each on the Book of Job and the Book of Revelation.

A January 2022 survey conducted with over 3600 teachers who belong to the National Education Association found that 90% believe teacher burnout is a serious issue. Fifty-five percent indicated that they are more likely to leave or retire from education sooner than planned because of the pandemic, almost double the number saying the same in July 2020. As I thought about a classic episode of Point of Learning that could be very helpful for teachers, teacher leaders, and building administrators who are looking for professional encouragement, it didn't take long to settle on my conversation with Jill Harrison Berg, recorded in the fall of 2018. Jill's book, Leading in Sync, which we discuss in this episode, is a text I recommend to anyone interested in more collaborative structures that can make schools function better for everyone--students, faculty, and staff. Arguing that leadership is influence, Berg lays out how to build and strengthen systems of collaboration and communication in an organization so that folks are pulling in the same direction--as opposed to working at cross purposes.

Bill Siemering is a radio visionary. Sixty years ago, he was hired to transform WBFO from a student-run college radio club into a professional station. Because of the experiments in radio that he led at WBFO throughout the 1960s, Siemering was invited to serve on the first board of what would become National Public Radio.  He was also invited to write the original mission statement of NPR. Siemering went on to help create  NPR's flagship program, All Things Considered and also what we know today as Fresh Air. Fifty years later, Siemering is still passionate about the power of radio, now doing much of his work in the developing world. 

Originally podcast in December 2017 as the holiday special for the first season of Point of Learning, this 75-minute version of the Dickens tale was recorded before a live audience at First Baptist Church in Westfield, NJ.

Assistant professor and head of the photography program at the State University of New York at Buffalo, John Opera has exhibited his critically acclaimed photographs for over two decades in dozens of galleries, from New York to LA, from Mexico City to Basel, Switzerland. His work has been featured in numerous reviews, articles, and other publications, from ArtForum to The New Yorker.

Point of Learning presents a special double episode: 1) a philosophy professor who in August 2021 became the unofficial liaison for Afghan students at the American University of Central Asia (AUCA) in Kyrgyzstan amid the chaotic U.S. withdrawal, and 2) an Afghan grad student who earned two degrees at AUCA.

How is a nutritionist better than a diet book? What are signs that your not-yet-10-year-old may be developing an eating disorder? How does drinking the night before affect a morning workout? To answer these and many more questions, I met up with Britt Schuman-Humbert, a clinical dietitian with over 25 years of experience in the field of clinical nutrition.

This bonus episode is a departure from my usual format in several ways. First, I answer more questions than I ask. Second, I’m the guest. Third, I didn’t really make the show—or at least, not the way I usually do! Courtesy of the Pingry Politics Podcast, this show features me doing a brief overview of some key points I consider critical to civil discourse (respectful conversation about topics of shared concern), followed by Q & A with high school students at the Pingry School in NJ.

Dr. Sarah EJ Bowman is Director of the High-Throughput Crystallization Screening Center at the Hauptman-Woodward Institute in Buffalo, New York. Since the outbreak of COVID-19 in the U.S., Sarah’s lab has been studying key components that make up the novel coronavirus. At the Crystallization Center in Buffalo, crucial non-infectious elements of the virus are coaxed into crystals that can help researchers see the otherwise invisible structure of the virus. Knowing what these extremely small viral parts look like helps researchers understand how new or existing existing drugs might be effective in fighting the virus.

A very special version of Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol, set in Frank Lloyd Wright’s magnificent Graycliff Estate (Derby, New York)

JoAnn Falletta is a Grammy Award-winning artist who has been compared to some of the greatest conductors of the 20th century—legends like Arturo Toscanini, Bruno Walter, Leopold Stokowski, and (one of her former teachers at Juilliard) Leonard Bernstein. In this episode we talk about why everyone should study music, how to get more women and people of color on the podium, the advantages of knowing guitar for a conductor, and the BPO's roots in the New Deal ... not to mention stories about Leonard Bernstein and Ruth Bader Ginsburg!

Dr. Errick L. Greene is Superintendent of Jackson (MS) Public Schools. My conversation with him on 11 August 2020 afforded the rich opportunity to produce three episodes in one: a look at some of the complications of starting the school year in the time of COVID-19; select reflections on public leadership in Mississippi at a moment of increasing awareness of systemic racism in the U.S.; and a masterclass in team leadership. Beginning his second quarter-century in education, Dr. Greene held leadership roles in Washington, DC and Tulsa, Oklahoma before becoming JPS Superintendent in 2018. Check out today’s show for the ways a supportive community can bring kids along … plus, collaborative approaches to make any kind of leading better for everyone. As the kids say, it’s everything.

Social psychologist Jonathan Haidt is the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership at New York University’s Stern School of Business. Haidt’s research examines the intuitive foundations of morality, and how morality varies across cultures—including the cultures of progressives, conservatives, and libertarians. His goal is to help people understand each other, live and work near each other, and even learn from each other despite their moral differences. In our conversation in early June 2020, we discuss some of the ideas that have earned him nearly 8 million TED Talk views and a spot in Prospect magazine's 2019 list of Top 50 Thinkers in the world, focusing on concepts from his two New York Times-bestselling books, The Righteous Mind and The Coddling of the American Mind (co-authored with Greg Lukianoff).

Master teacher Michelle Gigante has been guiding people toward energetic openings through a blend of yoga, breathing, and mindfulness techniques for nearly 25 years. The founder and director of Shakti Yoga in Buffalo, Michelle has an extensive background in theatre and dance, which contributes to her ability to execute classes with clarity and precision, improvising sequences that are creative and playful. I have appreciated her classes since becoming a member of the Shakti community when I returned to Buffalo two years ago. Deeply versed in healing modalities from yoga to Reiki to Qigong, Michelle is not generally, however, a fan of communications technologies, so when she decided to start offering centering sessions over Facebook Live and yoga sessions via Zoom, I sensed the opportunity for a wonderful conversation about how and why to learn to care for the self during a global health crisis.

Jonathan Zimmerman is one of the foremost education historians working today. His work examines how education practices and policies have developed over time, and the myths that often cloud our understanding of teaching and learning. We sat down in his office in late February to discuss the teaching of controversial issues in U.S. schools. I believe that learning how to talk about difficult topics where reasonable people may disagree is one of the most important skills for citizens to develop. As the headlines on any given day will confirm, it’s also one of the things Americans are terrible at. His 2017 book The Case for Contention (co-authored with Emily Robertson) explores why.

On today’s show, the National SEED (Seeking Educational Equity and Diversity) Project. For over 30 years, this unique teacher-led professional development program has cultivated multicultural teaching and learning across the globe and around the U.S.

Forty-four seasons in, Shakespeare in Delaware Park is one of Buffalo, New York’s great public art traditions. As a little kid, some of my first memories of my hometown were family outings seeing old plays in this beautiful green space. As fortune had it, I returned this summer as a performer, joining an outstanding cadre of designers, actors, musicians, directors, managers, and interns to work on a fresh, fun production of Love’s Labour’s Lost. This episode showcases contributions from some people who make magic happen.

Emily Jane Style is a “relational scholar.” She appreciates the intellectual dimension of ideas, but also knows that ideas matter relationally, because there are real flesh-and-blood people in any given room, people with real and complex life stories involved in any given discourse. My favorite tribute to Emily’s work comes from Christina Patterson Brown, an educator and activist who studied with her in 1991, and recently thanked Emily for modeling “what woke and intersectional work looked like before there was an internet.”

The U.S. cultivates a belief in meritocracy: People get what they deserve. Whatever we have, we earned. The problem, of course, is that it’s not true. In this episode, I talk with with Dr. Peggy McIntosh, the scholar who has done more than anyone else in the past 30 years to advance the concept of privilege as crucial for understanding and dismantling our pervasive myth of meritocracy.

According to the April 8, 2019 edition of The Nation, U.S. college students who graduated in 2017 averaged $28,700 in student loan debt. According to this podcast, Cuban college students averaged 0. But that’s just the beginning of what we can learn from Cuba! Episode features highlights of my conversation with Yanna Cruzata Quintero, a sidebar on the jaw-dropping Cuban Literacy Campaign of 1961, and lots of good music.

Epic Theatre Ensemble a collaborative of teaching artists and students in New York City who believe that participation in theatre is essential to a healthy democracy, and that this kind of engaging theatre experience should be a hallmark of U.S. education for all students. This episode features highlights of my conversation with Melissa Friedman, Co-Founder and Co-Artistic Director of Epic Theatre Ensemble, as well as some examples of the amazing work Epic does to engage students as citizens.

Listening matters for every relationship, from loved ones at home to civil discourse in community and country. This new year’s episode honors a very cool experiment in listening undertaken at the Library for the Performing Arts in New York City for six weeks at the end of 2018. Dr. Jonathan Hiam, Curator of Recorded Sound, guides us through the room in an experimental episode lit by compositions of the visionary composer and performer Arthur Russell. I think you’ll dig it.

For 25 years, Anne Phinney was a teacher who believed firmly in the power of connecting with animals to influence kids' empathy, compassion, and ideas about teamwork. For all her life, she's been crazy about horses! She now spends full days living her dream life on Moose River Farm in the Adirondack Woods with her husband Rod, caring for a menagerie of horses, goats, llamas, chickens, geese, tortoises, dogs, and a pot-bellied pig. Today she offers llama treks, as well as sessions in equi-reflection, providing opportunities for people to learn from and with horses in deep ways. We discuss all of that and more during the 2018 Thanksgiving Special.

Jill Harrison Berg is an educator with nearly 30 years of experience working in all kinds of schools. Her new book Leading in Sync: Teacher Leaders and Principals Working Together for Student Learning (2018, ASCD) is the richest resource I’ve encountered in the last decade for people in schools who are ready to build the trust necessary for real collaboration and marshal the vast resources latent in every faculty for the best possible learning outcomes for kids. This episode will be of special interest to educators now working in schools, but anyone who works on a team in any kind of organization will benefit from what Jill has to say.  [Art by Zuzy Gujda.]

This episode probes the value of mathematics and debate for students—and everyone else. Brent Farrand is an award-winning math teacher and kingmaker debate coach who established the debate team at Science High in Newark, NJ in 1979. [Thumbnail portrait of infinity by Brent Andrew Farrand.]

Jake Halpern has written about fame junkies, freegans, and die-hards who won’t leave their home under any circumstances. Also ice fortresses, enchanted forests, and twins switched at birth. One through-line for this award-winning journalist and author is storytelling; another is just plain learning.

Mom taught me how to braid bread, play fiddle, and disagree with others respectfully--and so much else. We discuss the value of praise in teaching and child-rearing, my grandmother Miriam George Meister, and a method of talent education that aims for world peace.  

Recorded at the Apollo Theater in Harlem, a conversation about poems and poetry with two rising stars who are also talented teachers. Featuring Aja’s “What I’ve Learned” (excerpt) and Meghann’s “In Which I Name My Abuser Publicly.”

Oskar Eustis founded his first theatre company at the age of 16. From Tony Kushner's Angels in America to Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton, Eustis has been intimately involved in the creation and development of many of the greatest works of American theatre of the past 30 years. Oskar and I sat down in his office at the Public Theater in February to talk about important teachers, Shakespeare, drama, democracy, Hamilton, the state of civil discourse ... and a few new ideas on the horizon.

Named for the year of its founding, Project '79 has been supporting and reclaiming high school students as learners for four decades. The oldest continuously running alternative education program I know about, it's also--for my money--just about the best way to do school. This month's episode let me sit down with coordinators Alan Lantis and Jackie Spring to talk about what matters most in designing and sustaining a program that keeps kids at the center of its work, addressing social and emotional needs as well as academic development.

Today I’m talking with Thomas Halpin, a master violinist and teacher. Halpin has concertized throughout the U.S. and abroad—yet for more than four decades he has focused on teaching.