Podcast appearances and mentions of Jonathan Rauch

Why does a self-described “gay, atheistic Jewish guy” argue that America needs more Christianity right now? In this thought-provoking episode, Jonathan Rauch, author, Brookings Institution senior fellow, and newly appointed board member of Heterodox Academy, joins host John Tomasi for an insightful discussion recorded in Washington, D.C. Jonathan reflects on his new book, Cross Purposes, a contrarian apology for the Christian values that once helped sustain both American self-government and its universities. Drawing from personal narratives, constitutional history, and contemporary social fractures, Rauch argues that the decline of robust, virtue-based Christianity and the politicization of faith have contributed to polarization, anxiety, and a crisis of institutional trust. Jonathan and John discuss Tocqueville's analysis of individualism, the “God-shaped hole” now filled by less constructive substitutes, and what both faith and scholarship can contribute to a pluralistic republic. Join us for the conversation and explore practical and philosophical pathways to revive the transformative power of both religious and academic institutions. In This Episode:

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Liz Joyner, founder and president of The Village Square, a civic organization dedicated to bridging divides and fostering dialogue across political and cultural lines. Liz shares the story behind founding The Village Square, her passion for preserving democratic values, and her experience navigating political polarization with grace, humor, and tenacity. As dear friends and collaborators, Corey and Liz offer listeners a heartfelt and insightful conversation about the importance of disagreement, empathy, and genuine connection. What You Will Learn: How Liz Joyner built The Village Square to combat political divisiveness The power of human connection and shared experiences in fostering civic trust Key strategies for having meaningful conversations across ideological divides Why now is a pivotal moment for preserving democracy and civil discourse How personal stories and experiences shape our political views and actions Episode Highlights: [00:01:00] Introduction to Liz Joyner and her work with The Village Square [00:06:00] Reflecting on her family's military background and public service [00:13:00] The key question: How can we engage across our differences? [00:22:00] The role of The Village Square's God Squad in promoting interfaith dialogue [00:31:00] The psychological roots of tribalism and political polarization [00:50:00] The threat to public humanities and the importance of civic institutions [01:00:00] Liz's favorite spot in D.C. and its symbolic value for democracy Featured Quotes: “We just need to do it. Reach out. Make the call. Share a meal. Be human.” “When we see others up close, we see their good intentions. That's where empathy begins.” “Disagreement, done well, is the genius behind our democracy.” “The genius of our system is that it relies on heterogeneity—on us learning from each other.” Resources Mentioned: The Village Square: villagesquare.us The Constitution of Knowledge by Jonathan Rauch: www.brookings.edu/books/the-constitution-of-knowledge Roger Herbert's Substack: https://rogerherbert.substack.com The National Portrait Gallery: https://npg.si.edu

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Liz Joyner, founder and president of The Village Square, a civic organization dedicated to bridging divides and fostering dialogue across political and cultural lines. Liz shares the story behind founding The Village Square, her passion for preserving democratic values, and her experience navigating political polarization with grace, humor, and tenacity. As dear friends and collaborators, Corey and Liz offer listeners a heartfelt and insightful conversation about the importance of disagreement, empathy, and genuine connection. What You Will Learn: How Liz Joyner built The Village Square to combat political divisiveness The power of human connection and shared experiences in fostering civic trust Key strategies for having meaningful conversations across ideological divides Why now is a pivotal moment for preserving democracy and civil discourse How personal stories and experiences shape our political views and actions Episode Highlights: [00:01:00] Introduction to Liz Joyner and her work with The Village Square [00:06:00] Reflecting on her family's military background and public service [00:13:00] The key question: How can we engage across our differences? [00:22:00] The role of The Village Square's God Squad in promoting interfaith dialogue [00:31:00] The psychological roots of tribalism and political polarization [00:50:00] The threat to public humanities and the importance of civic institutions [01:00:00] Liz's favorite spot in D.C. and its symbolic value for democracy Featured Quotes: “We just need to do it. Reach out. Make the call. Share a meal. Be human.” “When we see others up close, we see their good intentions. That's where empathy begins.” “Disagreement, done well, is the genius behind our democracy.” “The genius of our system is that it relies on heterogeneity—on us learning from each other.” Resources Mentioned: The Village Square: villagesquare.us The Constitution of Knowledge by Jonathan Rauch: www.brookings.edu/books/the-constitution-of-knowledge Roger Herbert's Substack: https://rogerherbert.substack.com The National Portrait Gallery: https://npg.si.edu

Postmodern Patrimonialism. That's the term Brookings Institution scholar Jonathan Rauch uses to describe Trump's second presidency, arguing it represents a 21st century model of running government as if it's his own personal property. Rauch describes Trump 2's "everything everywhere all at once" strategy as a venture capital-like approach: launching numerous initiatives simultaneously to overwhelm opposition, expecting some to succeed while recognizing that others will fail. Noting that this strategy has slowed since March due to court challenges and declining approval ratings, Rauch discusses the institutional breakdown of Congress, the emergence of Gavin Newsom as the apex of the resistance to Trump 2, and identifies Stephen Miller and Russell Vought as key strategic masterminds behind the administration's coordinated assault on universities, law firms, and democratic norms. Five Key Takeaways * Patrimonialism, Not Fascism: Rauch has shifted from describing Trump as fascist to "patrimonial"—running government as personal property and family business. This model is less organized than fascism but equally corrosive to democratic institutions.* "Everything Everywhere All at Once" Strategy: Trump's administration deliberately overwhelms opposition by launching simultaneous attacks on multiple fronts (universities, law firms, agencies, individuals), making coordinated resistance nearly impossible.* Congressional Institutional Collapse: America has effectively moved from a three-branch to two-branch government, with Congress absent as a check on executive power—a more fundamental threat than Trump himself.* Democratic Governors as Resistance Leaders: Figures like Gavin Newsom are emerging as the most effective opposition voices, using states' rights to challenge federal overreach in ways Congress cannot.* Miller and Vought as Strategic Masterminds: Stephen Miller (immigration/security) and Russell Vought (domestic policy/OMB) are identified as the key architects behind the administration's coordinated assault on democratic institutions.Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution and the author of eight books and many articles on public policy, culture, and government. He is a contributing writer of The Atlantic and recipient of the 2005 National Magazine Award, the magazine industry's equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize. His many Brookings publications include the 2021 book “The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth”, as well as the 2015 ebook “Political Realism: How Hacks, Machines, Big Money, and Back-Room Deals Can Strengthen American Democracy.” Other books include “The Happiness Curve: Why Life Gets Better after 50” (2018) and “Gay Marriage: Why It Is Good for Gays, Good for Straights, and Good for America” (2004). He has also authored research on political parties, marijuana legalization, LGBT rights and religious liberty, and more.Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting the daily KEEN ON show, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy interview series. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Jonathan Rauch joins Frank Schaeffer to tear apart the tangled mess of faith and politics in America. From religious hypocrisy to democracy's near-collapse, this episode isn't for the faint of heart. Get ready for a searing look at free speech, identity, and the culture war battles you can't ignore._____LINKShttps://www.brookings.edu/people/jonathan-rauch/https://www.lovechildrenplanet.com/events/in-conversation-with-frank-schaeffer-jonathan-rauch_____I have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said. Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. Tailwind TalksTailwind Talks is a podcast for high-performing professionals who want to build...Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of Fall In Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy. Learn more at https://www.lovechildrenplanet.comFollow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

In this episode Brookings's scholar Jonathan Rauch explores America's historically unprecendented position as a "high-tech, low trust society" - a dangerous combination where technological advancement coexists with collapsing social trust. Trust levels have plummeted since the 1970s warns Rauch, with America now ranking 52nd globally in believing strangers would return a lost wallet. He traces this decline to systematic attacks on institutions from both left and right, formented by libertarian populists. He warns that without rebuilding trust - which is seven times more important in determining life satisfaction- democracy itself will remain at existential risk.

The Atlantic's Jonathan Rauch joins Mona to talk about Trump's Achilles Heel.

Politics is a strange business with the Church and BYU. Dan Ellsworth talks about author and columnist Jonathan Rauch and his "partnership" with the Church. He also covers some major structural differences between the Restored Church and Evangelicals.

The Cognitive Crucible is a forum that presents different perspectives and emerging thought leadership related to the information environment. The opinions expressed by guests are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of or endorsement by the Information Professionals Association. During this episode, Austin Branch, Dave Pitts, and Joe Miller discuss cognitive warfare, the gray zone, and intensifying great power competition. The ultimate goal is to compete by gaining and maintaining information advantage without kinetic fighting. Recording Date: 28 Apr  2025 Research Question: Has Russian cognitive warfare, including the use of reflexive control, red lines and nuclear threats, influenced US policy decisions regarding weapon deliveries and restrictions to Ukraine? Similarly, has Chinese cognitive warfare impacted US policy and strategic outcomes concerning Taiwan and the Philippines? Resources: Cognitive Crucible Podcast Episodes Mentioned #24 John Davis on Modern Warfare, Teamwork, and Commercial Cognitive Security #62 Jonathan Rauch on the Constitution of Knowledge #222 JD Maddox on Emerging IO Opportunities Unrestricted Warfare by Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui The Cypher Brief Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder by Nassim Nicholas Taleb The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable by Nassim Nicholas Taleb Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Screenplay: The Foundations of Screenwriting by Syd Field Save the Cat Story Structure: Definition and Beat Sheet by Blake Snyder Link to full show notes and resources Guest Bio: Austin Branch founded Crescent Bridge to help serve the Information technical and cognitive needs of the Federal Government. Additionally, Austin joined ARLIS to help support the evolution of the Defense and U.S. Government Operations in the Information Environment (OIE) enterprise. Previously, Austin served as OIE Technology & Strategy at Secretary of the Air Force Directorate for Concepts, Development and Management (Exec IPA) after several years in the private sector at COLSA Corporation as the Executive Director for Information Strategies and Programs (2015-2021) after serving 30 years in Federal service as an Army Officer and Senior Civilian. He was commissioned as an Infantry Officer in 1986 from The Citadel, Charleston S.C. and went on to serve in multiple Command and Staff positions in conflict and in peace becoming the Army's first Information Operations Officer. Austin pioneered military operations in the information environment in key leadership positions in the Army, Joint Special Operations Command, Joint Staff, EUCOM, and deployed Joint and multinational Task Force Organizations across the globe. Upon retirement from the Army, Austin joined the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence as the Deputy Director and Chief of Operations for the Defense Policy Analysis Office with oversight of National special plans and technical operations. In 2008 was selected as a Defense Intelligence Senior Leader as Senior Advisor for Defense Information Operations focused on oversight, policy and support for Service and Joint Information Operations, and associated Special Access programs. In 2010, Austin was selected by the Secretary of Defense to lead the Information Operations and Military Information Support Defense Enterprise as the first Senior Director for this mission area in the Office of Policy and Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflict. In this capacity, Austin was DOD's senior representative for IO, MISO, EW and special program oversight, policy and assessments. In 2013, Austin was selected by the Director for the National Counter-Terrorism Center and the DNI to establish and lead a new organization to address Domestic Counter Terrorism, Counter Violent Extremism, and Counter Terrorism Cyber Strategy and Policy in support of the National Security Council. In this capacity, he also served as the National Co-lead for countering ISIS propaganda and influence and associated IPC lead strategist for National Security Council. Austin is also one of the founder's of a Non-profit, Information Professionals Association (IPA). IPA is a professional organization established to serve the interests of the broader Information community worldwide and for issues related to Cognitive Security. Austin also served on the Defense Science Board summer 2019 study focused on great power competition in the Information Environment and was recently was selected to join the University of Maryland Advanced Research Laboratory for Intelligence & Security (ARLIS) to help lead development of their Cognitive Security & Information Portfolio. He also serves on various Advisory Board(s) and professional associations. Austin and his wife, Carol live in Bluffton SC and have three children. They have two serving in active duty in the Army and one in Medical School at Icahn School of Medicine, Mt Sinai, NY. Dave Pitts is a senior national security professional, former CIA executive, and veteran with over four decades of experience in challenging and critical missions, ranging from intelligence operations, counterterrorism and special operations to great power competition. Dave served as the Assistant Director of CIA for South and Central Asia, Chief of National Resources Division, senior leadership positions in the Counterterrorism Center—including in the strategic communications space—and led CIA's two largest Field Stations. Dave has a proven track record of leading large and diverse teams, building lasting partnerships, integrating innovative technologies, and delivering results in high-stakes and high-pressure situations. Dave is a thought leader, Cipher Brief Expert and a frequent writer and commentator on terrorism, great power competition, the gray zone, cognitive warfare and emerging global issues. Dave is a co-founder of The Cipher Briefs Gray Zone Group. Joe Miller, Senior Executive Service, is currently the Deputy Commander for Support at the US Army Special Operations Command, headquartered at Ft Bragg, N.C. Prior to his assignment to Ft Bragg, Joe was the J7 Director of Joint Training and Innovation at US NORAD/NORTHCOM at Peterson, AFB, Co and first SES assignment was the J5 Director, Policy, Strategy, Plans and Futures at US Special Operations Command at Mac Dill AFB, Fl. Joe is a retired US Army Colonel.  He has led and Commanded platoons, troops, detachments, a Battalion task force and a Brigade. He has served and operated in western Europe, the Balkans, the Middle East, SW Asia and throughout the Americas. He is a graduate of the University of Florida, Bachelor of Science in Business Administration with Honors, US Army Command and General Staff College and the School of Advanced Military Studies (Master of Military Arts and Sciences), an Army War College Fellowship. He earned a Master's Degree in Operations Research from the Air Force Institute of Technology.  He is a life Member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Joe is married with one son. About: The Information Professionals Association (IPA) is a non-profit organization dedicated to exploring the role of information activities, such as influence and cognitive security, within the national security sector and helping to bridge the divide between operations and research. Its goal is to increase interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars and practitioners and policymakers with an interest in this domain. For more information, please contact us at communications@information-professionals.org. Or, connect directly with The Cognitive Crucible podcast host, John Bicknell, on LinkedIn. Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, 1) IPA earns from qualifying purchases, 2) IPA gets commissions for purchases made through links in this post.

BYU chooses some interesting guest speakers. One recent speaker is Jonathan Rauch, a gay atheist supporting compromise between the LGBTQ agenda and institutional religion. Mostly Christianity. Political veteran Paul Mero and political influencer Eric Moutsos discuss the real fallout of this compromise and dissect its faults. A lot of new fluffy word are used but in the end, Rauch is simply asking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to compromise on legally on an anti-family agenda. A compromise that strengthens churches' right to discriminate while removing rights from their members and all citizens.  Website- www.cwicmedia.com

Peter talks with Jonathan Rauch about two of his books, The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth and Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy.

Why would religion be necessary for a liberal democracy to function fully as intended? What benefits does Christianity provide to society in tandem with democracy that would collapse if either of those pillars failed? Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and also the author of several books and articles across various publications. His latest book is titled Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy.Greg and Jonathan discuss the declining influence of Christianity in America, the historical symbiosis between religion and liberal democracy, and how that relationship has shifted over time. They explore the rise of alternative spiritual movements and the consequences of shifting toward a more secular society. Jonathan explains his concepts of thin Christianity, sharp Christianity, and thick Christianity, and the benefits of thick Christianity as exemplified by the Latter Day Saints. They also examine the political polarization within Christianity and the effects it is having on the makeup of the church.*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:The core message of Jonathan's book[15:10] You've probably seen this in academia. They look at religion as the sum total of sociology plus demography and political leanings. Those things matter, but theology matters more. The Bible matters, and that remains within Christianity, a fundamental groundwork that it's hard to shop your way out of. I mean, you can. Of course, there's some pretty wackadoodle Christianity out there, but most mainstream Christianity is rooted in certain teachings, and those do provide some important ethical principles. The core message of my book is that the three most important central principles to Christianity, according to Christians, are also three core principles of liberal democracy. And you don't have to believe in Jesus to see that they're true and to see that they're important.Is America ungovernable without Christianity?[04:47] Religion is fading as part of American life. And that's great because religion is divisive, and it's dogmatic, and we'll just all get along better without it. I have never been so wrong. It turns out the founders told us this, but I forgot it, that Christianity, religion generally, but in the US that means Christianity- that especially means white Christianity, is a load-bearing wall in our democracy. And America is becoming ungovernable in significant part because Christianity is failing.The crisis of authority[36:22] Barna, which is a Christian research group, did a big survey of pastors a couple years ago. They asked if pastors had seriously considered quitting in the last year. 42% said yes. And the number three reason after, I can't remember number one and two though, were obvious, like low pay and high stress.Number three was politics.Why Christianity and liberalism need to support each other.[39:29] Liberalism needs that sense of rootedness and groundedness, that attention to higher transcendent things and core values and scriptures that are 3000 years old or 2000 years old, depending. It needs those things precisely because it is always changing and always churning.Show Links:Recommended Resources:ChristianityFriedrich NietzscheStrange Rites: New Religions for a Godless WorldJohn Stuart MillAlexandre LefebvreImmanuel KantChristian NationalismAmerican Heretics: Religious Adversaries of Liberal OrderLouis P. SheldonFamily Research CouncilBarna GroupEvangelicalismDavid FrenchEquality UtahRussell D. MooreTim KellerGuest Profile:Faculty Profile at Brookings InstitutionJonathanRauch.comProfile on WikipediaLinkedIn ProfileSocial Profile on XHis Work:Amazon Author PageCross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with DemocracyThe Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of TruthThe Happiness Curve: Why Life Gets Better After 50Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free ThoughtDenial: My 25 Years Without a SoulGay Marriage: Why It Is Good for Gays, Good for Straights, and Good for AmericaThe Outnation: A Search for the Soul of JapanIndex of Articles

Why are Bible sales experiencing a surprising 22% surge? Is Western culture becoming spiritually curious again? In this episode of Candid Conversations, Jonathan Youssef welcomes Dr. Sean McDowell—author, speaker, and Biola University professor—to unpack this unexpected trend.Sean shares insights from his years of engaging the next generation on matters of faith, culture, and apologetics. Together, they explore:Why a sharp rise in Bible sales should give us pause—and cautious hopeHow cultural voices like Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Rauch are contributing to renewed interest in ChristianityWhy secularism may be losing momentum among young adultsHow Christians can better engage a spiritually curious culture today—not with confrontation, but with conversationDrawing on historical shifts, current research, and his experiences equipping students and churches, Sean encourages believers to rethink how we present the gospel in this pivotal moment. Instead of arguing like it's still the era of the "new atheists," it's time to listen, ask better questions, and meet people in their spiritual hunger.Guest BioDr. Sean McDowell is a professor of apologetics at Biola University, the cohost of the Think Biblically podcast, and a best-selling author. His latest book, Apologetics for an Ever-Changing Culture, helps Christians address today's toughest questions with clarity and compassion.Connect with Sean:Website: seanmcdowell.orgYouTube: Sean McDowellInstagram: @sean_mcdowell 

Trump may be brilliant at assaulting us with his daily distractions, but Democrats need to relentlessly target his corruption because that may be his weak spot. He is running the government in a pre-modern way—like it's his own personal piggy bank. And he has replaced rules-oriented bureaucrats with mostly incompetent loyalists who are only there to do his bidding. Meanwhile, Christianity could help heal the country's partisan polarization if it returns to the teachings of Jesus instead of the gospel of Donald Trump. Plus, the constant burden of having to fight the cognitive warfare and sensory overload coming out of the White House.  Brookings' Jonathan Rauch joins Tim Miller.joins Tim Miller.  show notes Jon's piece on Trump's patrimonialism Jon's predictions in 2022 about a Trump second term A Chris Murphy Senate floor speech on Trump's corruption Mark Hertling piece on the Russian and Ukrainian armies that Tim referenced Jon's new book, "Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy" Jon's book, "The Happiness Curve: Why Life Gets Better After 50" The opening scene of The Godfather

While the formal separation of church and state is a vital element of America's constitutional order, the success of our long-running experiment in self-government has always depended on a healthy interdependence between republican freedom and religious faith. So argues Jonathan Rauch in his new book Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. "In American civic life, Christianity is a load-bearing wall," writes. "When it buckles, all the institutions around it come under stress, and some of them buckle, too."On this episode of The Permanent Problem podcast, Rauch joins host Brink Lindsey to discuss secularization and the rapid decline of organized Christianity in recent decades -- in Rauch's words, the combination of "thin Christianity" in the mainline denominations and increasingly "sharp Christianity" among self-described evangelicals. They examine the underlying causes of these developments, how they stoke polarization and undermine democratic values and institutions, and what a healthier "thick Christianity" might look like. 

In the past few weeks, Bari has done two episodes on religion—one asking, “Do we need a religious revival?,” and then a follow-up conversation with Ross Douthat asking how people who grew up in the secular West can actually find faith. Today, we have the last installment of this intellectual and religious inquiry, and we are asking a new question: What is the role of religion as a political force in this country? Our guest today, Jonathan Rauch, says: “Christianity is a load-bearing wall of American civic life.” In other words, the success of liberal democracy depends on a healthy Christianity to support it—and if Christianity falters, our American project will falter too. We get into why that is in this conversation. It's a fascinating position for a person who happens to be an atheist, Jewish, gay man. And Jonathan doesn't just say we need to embrace Christianity, he goes a step further. He says that Christians need to look in the mirror and reconsider how Jesus would approach American politics today.   Jonathan is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, and he just wrote Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. Bari asks him about the breakdown of religion. She asks about the religious and political forces that have shaped our present moment, like MAGA, the evangelical movement, and their marriage to President Donald Trump. And, she asks about the rise of Christian nationalism and the threat it poses. And, most importantly, she asks how we can restore health in political life. Go to groundnews.com/Honestly to get 40% off the unlimited access Vantage plan and unlock world-wide perspectives on today's biggest news stories. Head over to fastgrowingtrees.com/Honestly and use the code HONESTLY at checkout to get 15% off your first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How does a nice Jewish boy who is also a gay atheist have the chutzpah to lecture Christianity on its obligations to democracy? Listen to author Jonathan Rauch talk about his book Cross Purposes with EconTalk's Russ Roberts as Rauch makes the case for what he calls a thicker Christianity.

In this episode, Russell Moore, editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, joins Mark Labberton to discuss the seismic political, moral, cultural, and spiritual crises facing American evangelicalism and how to respond. Reflecting on his own journey from the Southern Baptist Convention to his current role, Moore offers a candid and theologically rich diagnosis of a movement he describes as simultaneously fragmented, bored, and longing for renewal. Drawing parallels to historical awakenings and moments of global upheaval, Moore challenges listeners to consider what faithful Christian witness looks like in a time of digital saturation, political idolatry, and ecclesial disillusionment. Together, they wrestle with how evangelical institutions can resist becoming co-opted by market forces or ideologies, and instead return to the soul of the gospel—Jesus himself. Episode Highlights “We simply want Jesus as revealed in scripture.” (Russell Moore) “The good news is so clouded with distorted noise.” (Mark Labberton) “You mistakenly think that the solution has to be at the same scale as the problem.” (Wendall Berry, cited by Russell Moore) “Every person has to have an act of willful excommunication.” (Nicholas Carr, cited by Russell Moore) “Christian Nationalism is like ‘Bizarro Evangelicalism' … i f you can get external conformity, then you have righteousness.” (Russell Moore) Karl Barth on Christian disillusionment during World War I: “We  we want to preach the gospel as though nothing has happened.” … “ He's saying the church is being co-opted and used by forces alien to it. And there have to be people who are free from that to actually appeal to the genuine gospel and to remind people that God is God.” About Russell Moore Russell Moore is Editor in Chief of Christianity Today and is the author of Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America (Penguin Random House). The Wall Street Journal has called Moore “vigorous, cheerful, and fiercely articulate.” He was named in 2017 to Politico Magazine's list of top fifty influence-makers in Washington, and has been profiled by such publications as the New York Times, the Washington Post, TIME Magazine, **and the New Yorker. An ordained Baptist minister, Moore served previously as President of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission and, before that, as the chief academic officer and dean of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he also taught theology and ethics. Moore was a Fellow at the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics and currently serves on the board of the Becket Law and as a Senior Fellow with the Trinity Forum in Washington, D.C. He also hosts the weekly podcast The Russell Moore Show and is co-host of Christianity Today's weekly news and analysis podcast, The Bulletin. Russell was President of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention from 2013 to 2021. Prior to that role, Moore served as provost and dean of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, where he also taught theology and ethics. A native Mississippian, he and his wife Maria are the parents of five sons. They live in Nashville, where he teaches the Bible regularly at their congregation, Immanuel Church. Show Notes Comparing Christianity Today and Fuller Theological Seminary Religious reconsiderations post-World War II “My grandfather was blown out of a tank by the Nazis in the Battle of the Bulge and came back. He went an unbeliever, came back really feeling his mortality and, and searching for answers. And ended up at a revival meeting where he came to know Christ.” A false choice presented to Christians: “You had this false choice being presented to Christians … you either go with an ever narrowing, ever quarrelsome sort of group of fundamentalists or you liberalize.” Billy Graham and Martin Luther King, Jr. The recent history of Evangelical Christianity A Movement in Crisis: What is the state of Evangelicalism in America? Revival preachers and entrepreneurialism: a religious, market-driven reality “Lifelessness and deadness” “ I can't think of a single church that has split over Christology. Most of the arguments have to do with politics and, and related sort of cultural issues because that's what people really care about and what they really think often is important.” Tumult of the digital economy Alienation, dehumanization: “We can simultaneously think of ourselves as gods and as sets of data and algorithms.” Speed of change and life Teaching ethics: a final exam question students have never thought about How to prepare people for ethical problems and real-life challenges Mental health crisis: “high rates of depression and anxiety driven by a piece of glass that everybody carries in his or her pocket that can connect that person with all of the information in the entire world.” 100 years since the invention and use of the microphone No microphones, but extraordinary voices “The dials are askew, because the sound that evangelicalism is evoking in so many quadrants is a sound that is hostile and grading and brash and arrogant.” “The good news is so clouded with distorted noise.” Secularization How Evangelicalism appeals to people: End Times Prophecy, Marriage and Family Values, and Shocking Attention-Grabbing “Real life takes on the characteristics of the internet.” Wendall Berry: “You mistakenly think that the solution has to be at the same scale as the problem.” Can you give us some hope? “Hope that is seen is not hope. Instead, there's suffering that creates endurance. Endurance that creates character, character that creates hope, and hope does not put to shame.” Ezekiel and the valley of the dry bones What is the work of Christianity Today right now? Redefining who is “us.” Who is the “we” of Evangelicalism? “We simply want Jesus as revealed in scripture.” 2 Corinthians 4: “The glory of God reflected in the face of Jesus Christ.” Karl Barth and disillusionment during World War I: “We  we want to preach the gospel as though nothing has happened.” … “ He's saying the church is being co-opted and used by forces alien to it. And there have to be people who are free from that to actually appeal to the genuine gospel and to remind people that God is God.” How to cultivate freedom “One of the major challenges to a freedom is loss of attention.” “I have to be free from the constant whirl—and what he meant at the time was the radio, you know, which is nothing compared to what we have—because my attention is necessary for me to be able to serve and to give.” “Kingdom of God is like yeast.” Waiting, attention, and a longer view of time “How do you then hold onto this freedom that we're describing in a way of connected disconnectedness or disconnected connectedness or something?” Nicholas Carr: “Every person has to have an act of willful excommunication.” Revelation and the Book of Daniel: “Seal all this up for now. … Don't worry about it.” Nebuchadnezzar demanding  that. Shadrach, Mishak, and Abednego bow down and worship the golden statue. Evangelical Pastors: Preaching the Bible versus advocating a political vision Galatians 1 and 2—Paul's not yielding to false teachers in order to preserve the Gospel New Apostolic Reformation Christian Nationalism: “Bizarro Evangelicalism … i f you can get external conformity, then you have righteousness.” “Blood mysticism” Jonathan Rauch's Cross Purposes Keeping guard up in conversations with disagreement “Simply asking for Christians to be who we say we are.” Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment Magazine and Fuller Seminary.

Today I'm speaking with Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution and a contributing editor of The Atlantic. We are discussing his latest book, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy (Yale UP, 2025). The enmity between secular liberals and religious conservatives is a source of chaos in American democracy. Religious conservatives blame secular liberals for creating a decadent society without traditional norms. Secular liberals accuse religious conservatives of intolerance and hatred. Both sides want to do away with the other, when we actually need to try to understand each other. Jonathan's book offers a powerful critique of our uncompromising ways. Caleb Zakarin is editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

What if the strongest case for Christianity's role in democracy came from an atheist? Jim Baer sits down with Jonathan Rauch to discuss Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, and why America needs the moral backbone that Christian virtues once provided. Rauch—Jewish, gay, and secular—argues that courage, equality, and forgiveness are essential civic values we're losing. They talk fear, demagogues, pseudo-religions, and how a more humble, and forbearing approach could help save both faith and democracy. Plus, a look at aging and purpose from The Happiness Curve. Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Donald Trump launched a global trade war because he thinks America's trade deficit makes us “losers,” but does he even understand what a trade deficit is? Phil introduces a new segment full of statistics that make Kaitlyn and Skye groan. And they discuss David Brooks' new article in The Atlantic, which compares this moment in U.S. history to the era of Andrew Jackson, and offers hope for what may come after MAGA. Skye interviews Jonathan Rauch about his new book, “Cross Purposes.” Rauch, an atheist, says his antagonism toward Christianity changed when he came to see how vital it is to American democracy and why evangelicals' failure to follow Jesus is putting the whole country at risk.   Holy Post Plus: Bonus Interview with Jonathan Rauch https://www.patreon.com/posts/125941930/   Ad-Free Version of this Episode: https://www.patreon.com/posts/126225451/ 0:00 - Show Starts   3:05 - Theme Song   3:30 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month   4:35 - Sponsor - Blueland - Get up to 25% off your first order by going to https://www.Blueland.com/HOLYPOST   7:12 - Stock Market Crash!   15:49 - How Idols Steal from Us   20:36 - DEI Removal   27:50 - Nihilism   41:20 - How Do Things Get Better?   48:18 - Sponsor - Hiya Health - Go to https://www.hiyahealth.com/HOLYPOST to receive 50% off your first order   49:22 - Sponsor - Rocket Money - Find and cancel your old subscriptions with Rocket Money at https://www.rocketmoney.com/HOLYPOST   50:30 - Interview   55:04 - Secularization's Consequences   1:06:22 - Christianity as an Exilic Religion   1:15:20 - Evangelism as Market-Driven Religion   1:26:52 - End Credits   Links from News Segment: David Brooks Article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2025/05/trumpism-maga-populism-power-pursuit/682116/   Other Resources: Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy by Jonathan Rauch: https://a.co/d/8Zl4bvs   Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/   Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus   Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost   Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.  

Today I'm speaking with Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution and a contributing editor of The Atlantic. We are discussing his latest book, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy (Yale UP, 2025). The enmity between secular liberals and religious conservatives is a source of chaos in American democracy. Religious conservatives blame secular liberals for creating a decadent society without traditional norms. Secular liberals accuse religious conservatives of intolerance and hatred. Both sides want to do away with the other, when we actually need to try to understand each other. Jonathan's book offers a powerful critique of our uncompromising ways. Caleb Zakarin is editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Today I'm speaking with Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution and a contributing editor of The Atlantic. We are discussing his latest book, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy (Yale UP, 2025). The enmity between secular liberals and religious conservatives is a source of chaos in American democracy. Religious conservatives blame secular liberals for creating a decadent society without traditional norms. Secular liberals accuse religious conservatives of intolerance and hatred. Both sides want to do away with the other, when we actually need to try to understand each other. Jonathan's book offers a powerful critique of our uncompromising ways. Caleb Zakarin is editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/religion

Today I'm speaking with Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution and a contributing editor of The Atlantic. We are discussing his latest book, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy (Yale UP, 2025). The enmity between secular liberals and religious conservatives is a source of chaos in American democracy. Religious conservatives blame secular liberals for creating a decadent society without traditional norms. Secular liberals accuse religious conservatives of intolerance and hatred. Both sides want to do away with the other, when we actually need to try to understand each other. Jonathan's book offers a powerful critique of our uncompromising ways. Caleb Zakarin is editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/politics-and-polemics

Author Jonathan Rauch is back on the show with his new book, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, and a wide-ranging, challenging, and thought-provoking conversation with Penn, Matt, and Reddi about the role of Christianity in America, Christian values from an atheist's viewpoint, and lots more.

Has Signalgate triggered a credible resistance movement to Trump 2.0? Brookings scholar and Atlantic columnist Jonathan Rauch isn't particularly optimistic. He discusses the emerging resistance from law firms, media, and some religious groups, while expressing concern about Trump potential defiance of Supreme Court orders. Rauch observes that the opposition to Trump's authoritarianism remains fragmented, but believes that eventually counter-organization will develop, though he remains uncertain whether it will happen quickly enough to be effective.Five Key Takeaways from the Rauch Interview* Patrimonial Governance: Trump's administration operates on what Rauch describes as a patrimonial model where loyalty to Trump is paramount, with officials trying to "work toward the Führer" by anticipating his desires rather than awaiting orders.* Institutional Breakdown: Rauch believes the U.S. has moved from a three-branch to effectively a two-branch government, with Congress largely absent as a check on executive power.* Fragmented Resistance: Opposition to Trump remains disorganized, with Rauch noting that resistance is forming but suffering from a collective action problem where institutions (law firms, universities, think tanks) are being picked off individually.* Supreme Court Concerns: Rauch predicts Trump may openly defy a Supreme Court order in his second term, which would represent an unprecedented constitutional crisis.* Religious Politics: Despite writing a book on Christian politics, Rauch sees no cracks in evangelical support for Trump, though he does believe some religious groups might eventually respond to extreme measures like deportations or humanitarian crises.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Brookings Institute's Governance Studies program and the author of eight books and many articles on public policy, culture, and government. He is a contributing writer of The Atlantic and recipient of the 2005 National Magazine Award, the magazine industry's equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize. His many Brookings publications include the 2021 book “The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth”, as well as the 2015 ebook “Political Realism: How Hacks, Machines, Big Money, and Back-Room Deals Can Strengthen American Democracy.” Other books include “The Happiness Curve: Why Life Gets Better after 50” (2018) and “Gay Marriage: Why It Is Good for Gays, Good for Straights, and Good for America” (2004). He has also authored research on political parties, marijuana legalization, LGBT rights and religious liberty, and more.Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting the daily KEEN ON show, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy interview series. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Jonathan Rauch is an important voice for our time. He was for free speech and free thought way before it was cool. In 1993, he published a book called Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought. It was while reading his latest book, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain With Democracy, in preparation for this interview, that I realized that Jonathan's work over the past few years has been in pursuit of one overarching goal. Jonathan is one of the most prescient voices trying to prevent a return to a pre-Enlightenment society.

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.comIn recent years, American Christianity has undergone a profound transformation—and it's reshaping the foundations of our democracy. In this episode, we talk with Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. A self-described atheist, Jew, and gay man, Rauch argues that liberal democracy has long depended on the moral framework Christianity provides—and that its collapse is fueling political dysfunction, extremism, and civic decay. Together with hosts Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram, Rauch explores the historical role of faith in sustaining democratic virtue, the dangers of Christian nationalism, and what it would take for the church to renew itself for the 21st century.Guest Bio:Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. He is the author of several books, including The Constitution of Knowledge and Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. Rauch specializes in civil discourse, political philosophy, and the health of liberal democracy.Resources & Links:

Send us a textEver heard the word patrimonialism? Neither had we—until we read Jonathan Rauch's eye-opening article in The Atlantic: "One Word Describes Trump." In this episode of The Two Kens, Ken Fong and I dive into what this term really means and why it's the key to understanding the new administration. Patrimonialism, a concept from sociologist Max Weber, describes rulers who claim to be the symbolic “father” of the people—personifying and controlling the state. Sound familiar? We break down the administration's first 60 days including mass firings, legal overreach, and dismantling of key government services; renaming the Gulf of Mexico and Mount Denali (yes, really); trade wars, territorial ambitions including Canada, Greenland, the Panama Canal, and the chaos strategy at play. We also talk about my letters to Senate Majority Leader John Thune—picked up by Politico and The New Yorker—urging him to take a stand. Plus, we tackle the Democratic Party's challenge in fighting back against this Republican power grab. Join us for this timely and critical conversation.  SHOW NOTESBecome a Patron | Ken's Substack PageSupport the showBecome a Patron - Click on the link to learn how you can become a Patron of the show. Thank you! Ken's Substack Page The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com

In this latest installment of the Two Kens collaborative series between Ken Fong and Ken Kemp, they introduce a term that respected German sociologist Max Weber first introduced 100 years ago that they believe best describes what Donald Trump is working hard to accomplish in his second term, and how knowing this term also tells us how best to thwart Trump's efforts. They were inspired by Jonathan Rauch's article in The Atlantic that appeared on February 24, 2025, entitled One Word Describes Trump: A Century Ago, A German Sociologist Explained Precisely How the President Thinks About the World. Fong and Kemp then look at the different responses to Trump's recent State of the Union address, especially how Senate Majority Leader John Thune appears to be subjugating his evanglical convictions to appear steadfastly loyal to President Trump.

Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Rauch also discuss patrimonialism in the United States. Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution and a member of the Persuasion Board of Advisors. His latest book is Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Rauch discuss the decline of religion and its impact on society, the long-term future of religion in America, and why patrimonialism is the best frame for understanding the Trump administration. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: podcast@persuasion.community  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jim talks with Mark Stahlman about Trump as an avatar of the current digital transformation. They discuss the GameB movement & complexity theory, predictions made to the Pentagon's Office of Net Assessment, security through development as alternative to war, the three spheres (East, West, Digital), China's approach to digital vs. the Western approach, Catholic social teaching principles, neo-feudalism vs. the scribal paradigm, Humanity 2.0, Aristotelian concepts of soul & hylomorphism, Cyber Sabbath practices, transitions between oral/scribal/digital paradigms, technological change as evolutionary pruning, Jonathan Rauch's Constitution of Knowledge, memory & imagination as key faculties, versions of the Enlightenment project, Daoism & Eastern philosophy, coherent pluralism, and much more. JRS EP 174 - Fred Beuttler and Mark Stahlman on Trivium University Center for the Study of Digital Life Exogenous (Mark's Substack) The Three-Body Problem, by Liu Cixin Analogia: The Emergence of Technology Beyond Programmable Control, by George Dyson JRS EP 287 - Jonathan Rauch on the Epistemic Crisis Science and Civilization in China, by Joe Needham Mark Stahlman is a biologist, computer architect and ex-Wall Street technology strategist. He is the President of the not-for-profit Center for the Study of Digital Life (CSDL, 501(c)3,  digitallife.center) and its educational project Trivium University (Triv U, trivium.university). He is also CEO of Exogenous, Inc. (EXO, exogenousinc.com), a strategic risk analysis group and on the editorial staff of its publication, the Three Spheres Newsletter (TSN). He studied for but did not complete advanced degrees in Theology (UofChicago) and Molecular Biology (UW-Mad). He has been widely interviewed and published, including teaching online courses (available on YouTube via 52 Living Ideas).

Jonathan Rauch, author of Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, and Julian Zelizer, author of In Defense of Partisanship, join for a wide-ranging discussion on their new books and the rise of partisanship in America. Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, moderates. Resources Julian E. Zelizer, In Defense of Partisanship (2025) Jonathan Rauch, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy (2025) Julian E. Zelizer, Abraham Joshua Heschel: A Life of Radical Amazement (2021) Jonathan Rauch, “Christian Renewal and the Future of American Democracy,” Brigham Young University Wheatley Institute (Jan. 24, 2025) Jeffrey Rosen, The Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America (2024) Stay Connected and Learn More Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr. Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate. Subscribe, rate, and review wherever you listen. Join us for an upcoming live program or watch recordings on YouTube. Support our important work. Donate

Jonathan Rauch, author of Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, and Julian Zelizer, author of In Defense of Partisanship, join Jeffrey Rosen for a wide-ranging discussion on their new books and the rise of partisanship in America.  This conversation was originally streamed live as part of the NCC's America's Town Hall program series on March 3, 2025.  Resources Julian E. Zelizer, In Defense of Partisanship (2025)  Jonathan Rauch, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy (2025)  Julian E. Zelizer, Abraham Joshua Heschel: A Life of Radical Amazement (2021)  Jonathan Rauch, “Christian Renewal and the Future of American Democracy,” Brigham Young University Wheatley Institute (Jan. 24, 2025)  Jeffrey Rosen, The Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America (2024)    Stay Connected and Learn More Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr. Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate. Subscribe, rate, and review wherever you listen. Join us for an upcoming live program or watch recordings on YouTube. Support our important work. Donate

Jonathan Rauch would seem to be an unlikely defender of American Christianity. The eminent author, Brookings senior fellow, and Atlantic magazine contributing editor is a gay Jewish atheist — “I won the marginalized trifecta,” he observes — who grew up deeply suspicious of Christianity and its potential for (and past history of) oppression. As he describes in his recent book Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, his attitude began to change at college, when his freshman year roommate was a Christian believer who exemplified the best aspects of the religion. But Rauch also came to appreciate that as the country has become increasingly secular — with the percentage of Americans identifying as “practicing Christians” down by half since 2000 — the religious impulse has found expression in other channels, including an increasingly toxic partisanship and polarization. And Rauch also came to appreciate that while the Founders rejected the establishment of a state religion or any other formal church-state alliance, they believed that republican government would be impossible without the underpinnings of religion and morality. In Rauch's words, “Christianity turned out to be a load-bearing wall in our democracy, and right now it is caving in.”In this podcast discussion, Jonathan Rauch argues that Protestantism in America increasingly has taken on forms that ended up importing religious zeal into secular politics and exporting politics into religion. One of these forms is what he calls “Sharp Christianity,” in which white Evangelicalism (in particular) increasingly has taken the form of conservative culture warfare and partisan politics. Another is “Thin Christianity,” in which mainline Protestant churches have lost cultural and theological distinctiveness and become akin to a consumer choice. But Rauch is hopeful about the potential for what he calls “Thick Christianity,” in which sincere Christian believers support rather than oppose constitutional pluralism, for theological and spiritual reasons rather than merely strategic or expedient ones. In the unexpected form of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Rauch finds a religion that seeks to base itself on a theology of “how Christ wants us to behave in our public and political relations. And how is that? It's patience, negotiation, and mutual accommodation.” And he's hopeful that Christians who follow this path will enter into good-faith negotiations with Americans who do not share their beliefs, “and look for solutions that will expand the space for us to get along together.”Jonathan Rauch would seem to be an unlikely defender of American Christianity. The eminent author, Brookings senior fellow, and Atlantic magazine contributing editor is a gay Jewish atheist — “I won the marginalized trifecta,” he observes — who grew up deeply suspicious of Christianity and its potential for (and past history of) oppression. As he describes in his recent book Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, his attitude began to change at college, when his freshman year roommate was a Christian believer who exemplified the best aspects of the religion. But Rauch also came to appreciate that as the country has become increasingly secular — with the percentage of Americans identifying as “practicing Christians” down by half since 2000 — the religious impulse has found expression in other channels, including an increasingly toxic partisanship and polarization. And Rauch also came to appreciate that while the Founders rejected the establishment of a state religion or any other formal church-state alliance, they believed that republican government would be impossible without the underpinnings of religion and morality. In Rauch's words, “Christianity turned out to be a load-bearing wall in our democracy, and right now it is caving in.”In this podcast discussion, Jonathan Rauch argues that Protestantism in America increasingly has taken on forms that ended up importing religious zeal into secular politics and exporting politics into religion. One of these forms is what he calls “Sharp Christianity,” in which white Evangelicalism (in particular) increasingly has taken the form of conservative culture warfare and partisan politics. Another is “Thin Christianity,” in which mainline Protestant churches have lost cultural and theological distinctiveness and become akin to a consumer choice. But Rauch is hopeful about the potential for what he calls “Thick Christianity,” in which sincere Christian believers support rather than oppose constitutional pluralism, for theological and spiritual reasons rather than merely strategic or expedient ones. In the unexpected form of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Rauch finds a religion that seeks to base itself on a theology of “how Christ wants us to behave in our public and political relations. And how is that? It's patience, negotiation, and mutual accommodation.” And he's hopeful that Christians who follow this path will enter into good-faith negotiations with Americans who do not share their beliefs, “and look for solutions that will expand the space for us to get along together.”

 In his first month in office, Donald Trump has broken international agreements with allies, ended all foreign aid, voted with America's enemies in the UN, posted a plan to turn Gaza into a Trump casino and resort, purged the Pentagon of military commanders, appointed podcasters and conspiracy theorists to his cabinet, and threatened to invade or annex Canada, Greenland, and Panama. David French and Skye Jethani discuss various theories to explain Trump's approach to governing, and find one model that makes a lot of sense in an article by Jonathan Rouch. Then they contrast it with what the Founders said was necessary for the republic to survive—virtue. Finally, they discuss how the decline of virtue in American leadership may be the fruit of the church's failure to make disciples. 0:00 - French Friday's Moving to The SkyePod! 1:27 - The Theme Song 2:23 - Ukraine and Trump 8:11 - Trump 1.0 vs Trump 2.0 16:43 - Triumphalism's Shelf Life 25:53 - Bureaucracy vs Mob Boss 32:38 - Megachurches and Patrimonialism 39:38 - American Democracy and Christianity 55:52 - Prophecy's Role in MAGA 1:05:00 - End Credits One Word Describes Trump (Article by Jonathan Rauch): https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/02/corruption-trump-administration/681794/ Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy by Jonathan Rauch: https://a.co/d/26wdqNC  Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America by Jeffrey Rosen: https://a.co/d/6Crl6Hk  

What is the hidden influence of Christianity in American society—and what happens if it disappears? Host Curtis Chang sits down with Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at the Brookings Institute and author of Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, to explore how Judeo-Christian values have shaped democracy and what their decline means for our political and social landscape. They discuss the rise of fear within the evangelical church, political polarization, and make the case for Christian virtues as a stabilizing force at the heart of the American republic. Whether you're a believer or a skeptic, it's important to understand why Christianity's influence extends far beyond the church—and why its disappearance could reshape the future of democracy. Send written questions or voice memos for “Ask Curtis” episodes to: askcurtis@redeemingbabel.org   Get a 25% discount when you buy The Art of Disagreeing by Gavin Ortland at thegoodbook.com with code: GOODFAITH   Resources from this episode: Jonathan Rauch's 2003 The Atlantic article Let It Be Jonathan Rauch's Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy The rise of the AfD in Germany France holds off the far right Pew Research: Modeling the Future of Religion in America James Madison and religious freedom Can the Religious Right Be Saved? by Dr. Russell Moore Dr. Timothy Keller: Suffering: If God is good, why is there so much evil in the world? Learn more about The After Party   More From Jonathan Rauch: Read the latest article by Jonathan Rauch: One Word Describes Trump Jonathan Rauch's The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth Jonathan Rauch's work at the Brookings Institute Jonathan Rauch's The Atlantic articles   Follow Us: Good Faith on Instagram Good Faith on X (formerly Twitter) Good Faith on Facebook   Sign up: Redeeming Babel Newsletter

Jim talks with Jonathan Rauch about the ideas in his book The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth. They discuss the epistemic crisis, Plato's Theaetetus, Trump & propaganda techniques, the Constitution of Knowledge as a framework for epistemics, the "marketplace of ideas" metaphor, the reality-based community, the personal-institutional spiral, the social funnel of knowledge, social media's impact on epistemics, advertising vs subscription models, meme space pollution, the anti-vax movement, the importance of free speech to the gay rights movement, recommendations for defending truth, supporting institutions, speaking out against misinformation, maintaining viewpoint diversity, and much more. Episode Links The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth, by Jonathan Rauch Plato's Theaetetus Heterodox Academy JRS EP273 - Gregg Henriques on the Unified Theory of Knowledge Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality, by Renée DiResta Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, by Jonathan Rauch Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, is the author of eight books and many articles on public policy, culture, and government. He is a contributing writer for The Atlantic and recipient of the 2005 National Magazine Award, the magazine industry's equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize. His latest book, published in 2021 by the Brookings Press, is The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth, a spirited and deep-diving account of how to push back against disinformation, canceling, and other new threats to our fact-based epistemic order.

0:00 MSNBC cancels Joy Reid, conservatives rejoice—Robby Soave 12:45 Joe Rogan calls Musk "hyperbolic;" DOGE under scrutiny and signs of push back emerge 25:11 Why more Christianity could help democracy: Jonathan Rauch  35:40 Trump taps conservative podcaster Dan Bongino for FBI Depy Dir 44:45 Zelensky willing to resign for peace, Ukraine NATO membership, blasts mineral rights offer 52:31 Vivek Ramaswamy running for Ohio Governor 59:18 Inside DOZENS OF Lawsuits DOGE Faces: Interview 1:07:41 Jane Fonda pleads for empathy at SAG awards; Piers Morgan blasts her support of "woke" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jonathan Rauch asserts that as the American Church has become increasingly concerned with the culture war and politics, it has become secularized and unappealing to its members, who are abandoning it. The result is a country increasingly spiritually adrift, churches distracted from their core missions, and a nation turning to politics as a substitute.  He is the author of Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Promise with Democracy  

Author and journalist Jonathan Rauch is a Jewish atheist. And yet, he's calling on Christians to remember their faith — and practice it the way Founding Father James Madison might have done.

”I grew up thinking that Christianity was basically cruel and hypocritical.” “The core teachings of Jesus align very well with the core teachings of James Madison.” “That's why we need Christianity. It's not because we don't have reason to fear. It's because we do.” —Jonathan Rauch, from the episode We're at a crossroads, where Christianity and secularism in America are both operating at cross-purposes, and both need a critical reassessment of their role in democratic public life. In his new book, Jonathan Rauch “reckons candidly with both the shortcomings of secularism and the corrosion of Christianity.” He “addresses secular Americans who think Christianity can be abandoned, and Christian Americans who blame secular culture for their grievances.” Jonathan Rauch is senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution. He is the author of several books, including The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth and his latest book (under discussion in this episode),  Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. Follow him on X @jon_rauch. He is also a celebrated essayist, a contributing writer for The Atlantic, and a recipient of the 2005 National Magazine Award, the magazine industry's equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize. In this episode Mark Labberton and Jonathan Rauch discuss: Republican virtue What Jesus and James Madison have in common The political idolatry of secularism The differences between the thin church, sharp church, and thick church The political orientation of the church in exile Tyrannical fear The Morman church's example of civic theology “of patience, negotiation, and mutual accommodation” The promise of power in exchange for loyalty About Jonathan Rauch Jonathan Rauch is senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution. He is the author of several books, including The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth and his latest book (under discussion in this episode),  Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. Follow him on X @jon_rauch. Show Notes Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth Reasonable, civic mindedness “Graciousness toward a faith you don't share.” “Of course I knew I was Jewish. I also knew that the idea of God seemed silly to me. I just never, never could believe it.” The Rev. Dr. Mark McIntosh 2003 Atlantic article: “The dumbest thing I ever wrote” celebrating secularism in America (”Let It Be,” The Atlantic, May 2003) “ It turned out that when Christianity started to fail, people started looking for substitutes, because they were looking for a source of identity and values and transcendent meaning.” Political idolatry of secularism “A major reason the country is becoming ungovernable is because of Christianity's crisis. We can no longer separate the two, and that's why I, a very secular person, am writing a book about Christianity.” “Moving away from the teachings of Jesus…” “The core teachings of Jesus align very well with the core teachings of James Madison.” Mark's description of his father: “ My dad used to save certain neck veins for the discussion of religion because he felt like it was something that should be avoided, at that time, at all costs, particularly its most zealous kind. And his primary critique was that what religious people do is that they take great things and make them small. …   What shocked me when I became a Christian was this discovery that Jesus and my dad had this same theme in common, that Jesus often objected to the small making of various religious authorities of his day.” “God's capacious grace, creativity, purpose, and love” Will the church live in its identity as followers of Jesus? “Christianity is a load-bearing wall in our liberal democracy.” “Republican virtues” (not the party): lawful, truthful, civic education, tolerant, pluralistic Christianity's role in upholding the unprecedented religious freedom “When Christians begin demanding things that are inconsistent with those core values, that makes everything else in the country harder.” “The thin church is a church that blends into the surrounding culture and it becomes diluted.” “The sharp church is …  where the church takes on the political colorations of the surrounding environment, aligns itself with a political party.” Divisive and polarizing “The third is the thick church. And there, the challenge is that you want a church to be counter cultural. You want it to have a strong sense of its own values. Otherwise, it's just not doing the work. So it needs to ask a lot of its followers. It needs to give a lot back in exchange. That's what sociologists mean by, by thick communities and groups. At the same time, it needs to be reasonably well aligned with our constitution and our liberal democratic values.” Church of fear Fear of demographic decline Cultural fear and losing the country to the woke Left Fear of emasculation Plain old political fear: “Our side needs to win.” Fear as a major theme of the Bible Fear of God as “the beginning of wisdom” “A communion of unlike people. … A workshop in which the character of God … is meant to be learned.” Immaturity and lack of wisdom in the church “The chief defense of the faith in the world that Jesus died and rose is that unlike people find communion with one another in a union that only Jesus Christ's death and resurrection could actually accomplish.” “Tyrannical fear”—a drive for dominance “Fear is part of the human condition. Yet what's so countercultural about Christianity, is its teaching that you can't be governed by that fear. You can't let it run your life and go around in a state of panic. And that Jesus Christ himself had lots to be fearful of, as we know from the end that he came to, and yet comported himself in this calm and dignified way, did not let fear triumph over him. That's why we need Christianity. It's not because we don't have reason to fear. It's because we do.” “Fear casts out love.” Trump administration['s] … demonstration of a capacity to have literally no compassion, no empathy.” The paradigm of Exodus versus the paradigm of exile Isaiah 58: “ Now as strangers in a strange land in Babylon, I'm going to ask you: Who are you now? Who do you trust now? Who are you going to put the full weight of your life on now?” “Exilic Church” “ Christianity is not about owning the country or winning in politics.” “It can't be a coincidence that at a moment when (at least) white Protestantism in the United States is obsessed with political influence and has mortgaged itself to the least Christlike figure possibly in American political history (in any case, right up there) that its numbers are shrinking catastrophically.” “The irony of the cross always is this self emptying power.” [Trump] is saying, “I will give you power, and in exchange, you will give me unquestioning loyalty.” Comparing Trump's transaction (at Dordt University in Iowa) “If you vote for me, you will have power” with the temptation of Christ in the desert: “All of this will be yours if you bow down to me.” Transactional relationship with power The Mormon church's “ civic theology … of patience, negotiation, and mutual accommodation” Jesus: “Don't be afraid, imitate Jesus, and forgive each other.” Madisonian liberalism: “Don't panic if you lose an election, protect minorities and the dignity of every individual, and don't seek retribution if you win, share the country.” “When Gandhi was asked what he thought of Western civilization, he said, ‘It would be a good idea.'” Black church and MLK Jr.—”emphasis on Reverend” “You accept the stripes and the crown of thorns. You turn the other cheek.” Profoundly counterintuitive countercultural example Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.

One may not expect Russell Moore and Jonathan Rauch, an openly gay atheist, to become friends—much less to be positive influences on one another's lives and work. But as this conversation shows, this surprising fact is true. The two discuss their perspectives on politics, Christianity, and culture. They talk about their regular gathering on Thursday nights with fellow thinkers and the ways they see fear taking precedence in American churches. Their discussion covers race, gender, and sexuality, as well as Christian nationalism, parallels between the political left and right, and the reasons why Rauch considers forbearance to be a key aspect of liberal democracy. Moore and Rauch consider the “four Ms”—mortality, morality, murder, and miracles—and talk about why Rauch dedicated his new book, Cross Purposes, to two Christian friends who have passed—Tim Keller and Mark McIntosh. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: Jonathan Rauch Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy by Jonathan Rauch Brookings Institution The Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention Peter Wehner David French Mark A. McIntosh “Let It Be” “U.S. Church Membership Falls Below Majority for First Time” No Compromise Tim Keller Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens to American democracy if Christianity is no longer able, or no longer willing, to perform the functions on which our constitutional order depends? Jonathan Rauch—a lifelong atheist—reckons candidly with both the shortcomings of secularism and the corrosion of Christianity. Thin Christianity, as Rauch calls the mainline church, has been unable to inspire and retain believers. Worse, a Church of Fear has distorted white evangelicalism in ways that violate the tenets of both Jesus and James Madison. What to do? For answers, Rauch looks to a new generation of religious thinkers, as well as to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has placed the Constitution at the heart of its spiritual teachings. In this timely critique Rauch addresses secular Americans who think Christianity can be abandoned, and Christian Americans who blame secular culture for their grievances. The two must work together, he argues, to confront our present crisis. He calls on Christians to recommit to the teachings of their faith that align with Madison, not MAGA, and to understand that liberal democracy, far from being oppressive, is uniquely protective of religious freedom. At the same time, he calls on secular liberals to understand that healthy religious institutions are crucial to the survival of the liberal state. Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution in Washington DC and a contributing writer of The Atlantic. His new book is Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy.

In this episode of The Mona Charen Podcast, Mona Charen speaks with author Jonathan Rauch about his new book, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. They explore the decline of Christianity in America, its impact on democracy, and whether faith can be depoliticized. Rauch, a self-described “atheistic homosexual Jew,” makes the case that Christianity has been a vital “load-bearing wall” for American democracy and argues for a return to its core principles. The conversation touches on political polarization, the role of faith in public life, and what small-l liberals and conservatives alike can learn from the evolving role of religion in society. REFERENCES: Books by Jonathan Rauch: Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy (his new book) The Constitution of Knowledge (his previous book) Articles: An article by Jonathan Rauch in The Atlantic (2003) celebrating secularization, which he later called "the dumbest thing I ever wrote." Books and Works Referenced: Tim Alberta's The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory (referred to in discussion about the church and politics) A quote attributed to G.K. Chesterton: “When people cease to believe in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything” (noted as possibly apocryphal). Russell Moore's commentary on the state of the church. The Bible (including references to Jesus' teachings such as "forgive your enemies" and "the least of these"). A quote from John Adams: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” The Book of Mormon (mentioned in the discussion of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Immanuel Kant's ethical philosophy (used to support moral arguments). Rabbi Hillel's summary of the Torah: “That which is hateful to you, do not do unto your neighbor. All the rest is commentary. Now go and study.” Legislation and Policies Referenced: The 1964 Civil Rights Act (mentioning its religious exemptions). The Utah Compromise (2015) on LGBT rights and religious freedoms. The Respect for Marriage Act (2022), which protected same-sex marriage while also ensuring religious protections.

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the chaos and coming fight around impoundment of federal grants; the surprise market shakeup around AI and DeepSeek; and talk with Jonathan Rauch about his new book out next week entitled Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. For this week's Slate Plus Episode, Emily, John, and David discuss new data from the 2024 NAEP Reading and Mathematics Assessments and the collapse of student test scores in the US.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Yael van der Wouden about her novel, The Safekeep.    Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Research by Emily Ditto   Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you'll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the chaos and coming fight around impoundment of federal grants; the surprise market shakeup around AI and DeepSeek; and talk with Jonathan Rauch about his new book out next week entitled Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. For this week's Slate Plus Episode, Emily, John, and David discuss new data from the 2024 NAEP Reading and Mathematics Assessments and the collapse of student test scores in the US.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Yael van der Wouden about her novel, The Safekeep.    Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Research by Emily Ditto   Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you'll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does a Christian theology consistent with liberal values and institutions look like? Jonathan Rauch suggests something has gone wrong in communities of faith in the US, and hopes for a reckoning in Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Brookings Institution senior fellow and best-selling author Jonathan Rauch has returned to The Remnant once more to subject his latest book to Jonah Goldberg's barrage of inquiry. The book in question, Cross Purposes: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy, seeks to remind Americans that liberalism cannot function without strong Christian institutions and argues that living the Christian doctrine could help fix our democracy. Jonah and Jonathan discuss new ways to protect American pluralism, spiritual formation in the civic realm, and the admirable strategies of the Church of Latter-day Saints. Show Notes: —Buy Cross Purposes here —G-File: Slog and Sacrifice The Remnant is a production of The Dispatch, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a non-partisan, conservative perspective. To access all of The Dispatch's offerings—including Jonah's G-File newsletter, weekly livestreams, and other members-only content—click here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We'll be back next week with a new episode, but in the meantime we're kicking off 2025 with a great conversation from our friends at “The Opinions.” In this episode, the New York Times Opinion columnist David French, a lifelong evangelical, speaks to Jonathan Rauch, an atheist and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, about the crisis of Christianity in the United States and how faith might be the only way to redeem democracy.(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts about the show? Email us at matterofopinion@nytimes.com or leave a voicemail at (212) 556-7440. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.