Room For Both

In this episode, we're continuing our series on Brené Brown's guideposts for wholehearted living and are digging into how we cultivate creativity and let go of comparison and the other things that get in the way of our creative tendencies. As with most of our conversations, we quickly realize there's a lot more to this topic and to living creatively than perhaps we initially realized.

In this episode, we're talking about Brené Brown's fifth Guidepost for Wholehearted Living: Cultivating Intuition and Trusting Faith and Letting Go Of the Need for Certainty. Mere shares her experience from a recent silent retreat; Nic reflects on how some recent conversations have shaped her perspective, and they both reflect on how hard it can be to deal with the fact that there are no guarantees in life. Show Notes for Episode 10 The Jesuit Center for Spiritual Growth (where Mere attended a recent silent retreat) The Monastery of the Holy Spirit (the silent retreat center Nic mentions) Colour: The Spectrum of Science (the docuseries Nic's been watching) MasterChef and Great British Menu (the cooking shows Nic's inspired by at the moment)

We’re taking a break from our series on Brené Brown’s Guideposts for Wholehearted Living to share Nicole and Nora’s birth story. Nic listened to countless women’s positive birth stories throughout her pregnancy and it hugely impacted how she approached birth, to the point she was genuinely looking forward to it and considers it one of the best days of her entire life. Listen as the girls catch up and share this aspect of life for the first time. Jeff even makes a special appearance as he details the unfolding of their home birth experience from his perspective. We share laughs, a few curse words, affirmations- all the things. Trigger warning: This episode discusses pregnancy and birth, which we recognize are topics that may bring up loss and trauma. Please take care of yourself. Show Notes for Episode 9 The Enneagram (for those that have been living under a rock) How To Do The Work by Dr. Nicole LePera (the book Nic is currently reading) Codependent No More by Melody Beattie (the book that convinced Nic she’s has codependent tendencies) The Language of Letting Go: Daily Meditations on Codependency by Melody Baettie (the daily meditations Mere talks about) Books and Resources Nic Loved During Pregnancy Expecting Better by Emily Oster Crib Sheet by Emily Oster The Positive Birth Book by Millie Hill Changing The Birth Narrative episode of The Deliciously Ella Podcast Articles and Organizations Focused on Better Maternal Outcomes for Black Women Black People Are More Than Twice As Likely As White People To Die Due To Childbirth Jezebel article that outlines the disparity in birth outcomes in the U.S. as well as current legislation focused on maternal health Why are black mothers at more risk of dying? BBC article that sheds light on the inequalities in birth outcomes in the U.K. Five X More and organization committed to highlighting and changing black women’s maternal outcomes in the U.K. (looking for donations and birth stories from black women to expand their data set) Mummy’s Day Out Instagram account creating a supportive network for mothers

In this episode, we’re chatting about Brené Brown’s fourth Guidepost for Wholehearted Living: Cultivating Joy and Gratitude and Letting Go of Scarcity and Fear Of The Dark. As always, the conversation is real and raw- from the fears Nic has been working through recently, to Mere’s reluctance to implement spiritual practices in her life. Mere’s particularly enthused during Shoot The Breeze, sharing some health practices and a shampoo brand that are rocking her world.

In this episode, Nic and Mere continue their conversation about Brené Brown's third Guidepost for Wholehearted Living, Cultivating a Resilient Spirit and Letting Go of Numbing and Powerlessness. They cover a lot of ground in this conversation- from what our bodies may be telling us to how to cultivate more healing and transformation in every day life. 

In this episode of the Room For Both Podcast, we begin a discussion about Brené Brown's third guidepost for wholehearted living: Cultivating A Resilient Spirit and Letting Go of Numbing and Powerlessness. We reflect on what we're learning about resiliency (and about ourselves!) as we navigate the ongoing coronavirus pandemic and reflect on past life experiences. We'll wrap up the conversation in our next episode, Spirituality & Resiliency (Part 2). 

We're discussing Brené Brown’s second Guidepost for Wholehearted Living: Cultivating Self Compassion and Letting Go Of Perfectionism, from her book The Gifts of Imperfection. We share many laughs and several “Why is being a human so hard?!” moments as we explore the ways perfectionism crops up in our lives and relationships. We also share Nic’s revelation about how to serve corn, a brilliant gift idea for your parents or in-laws, and the exercise routine that's giving Mere life right now.

This episode unpacks Brené Brown’s first Guidepost for Wholehearted Living: Cultivating Authenticity and Letting Go Of What People Think. In typical Nic and Mere fashion, we’re getting real about what it looks like to live this guidepost out in practice. While authenticity is the starting point for this conversation, it turns into quite a journey as we discuss concepts like contentment and the messiness of growth (with a few aha moments and confessions along the way!) 

Mere and Nic reflect on Richard Rohr's talk, Beginner's Mind, and the importance of unknowing within life, growth, and spirituality. As usual, they discuss how this concept is currently playing out in their lives and how hard it is to find a balance with belief and unknowing. Oh, and Mere shares some books she thinks everyone should read during Shoot The Breeze- it's a good one, folks! 

We're talking about Brené Brown's 8th Guidepost to Wholehearted Living: Cultivating Calm and Stillness and Letting Go Of Anxiety As A Way Of Life. These pillars come from Brené's book, The Gifts Of Imperfection, and are practices we've both found incredibly helpful in our growth, ours lives, and our relationships. I mean, who doesn't crave a little more calm and a little less anxiety in their world?! We also, as always, share things we're digging and things we're taking away from this conversation. 

We’re kicking off Season 2 of the Room For Both Podcast with a lively discussion about Instagram- why we’re questioning IG’s value in our lives and what we’re doing (or at least thinking about doing) about it. If you’ve ever questioned this platform we scroll through so often, this conversation is for you. In true RFB fashion, we also discuss the things we love about Instagram and why this topic is such a mixed bag for us. Oh, and we’ll share what we’ve been up to for the past 10 months- moving abroad, taking a 500-mile pilgrimage, trying new recipes, all the things. It feels so good to catch up and to be back on the podcast bandwagon with all of you!

Part 2 of our discussion about the Enneagram is comin’ at you hot! In this episode, we dig into the Ego Self versus the True Self, share stories of how the Enneagram has impacted our lives and relationships, and all out geek out over this personality typing system we’re obsessed with. Show Notes Coming soon! 

Friends- the day is here. We’re finally digging into the ever-elusive Enneagram. In this episode, Nic, Mere, and special guest (Nic’s mom, Barbara) discuss all things Enneagram. Throughout this conversation, we use learnings from the book The Wisdom of the Enneagram. It was written by two Enneagram experts, Don Riso and Russ Hudson, which you will hear referenced throughout the podcast. We think you’ll love this conversation and hope it inspires you to do more work with this sacred personality typing system. It is seriously game changing. We think you’ll love this conversation and hope it inspires you to do more work with this sacred personality typing system. As a quick FYI, this is a two part series, so be sure to join us again for Part 2 in a couple of weeks.   SHOW NOTES FOR EPISODE #8 The references Nicole makes throughout the episode (as she describes the different types) comes from the book The Wisdom of the Enneagram by two Enneagram experts, Don Riso and Russ Hudson. Riso and Hudson are founders of the Enneagram Institute, and their website provides a test where you can learn your Enneagram type. Ian Cron also provides a (free) test on his website. You’ve heard us reference his podcast, Typology, in previous episodes, and if you haven’t checked it out yet, we highly recommend it! His book The Road Back To You and his podcast are great starting points for learning about this ancient tradition. This episode is one of our favorites. Mere also references Jen Hatmaker’s podcast episode she did with Chris Heuertz, author of The Sacred Enneagram and another Enneagram expert (who has been a disciple of folks like Mother Teresa and Richard Rohr). This is another resource if you would like to learn more about the Enneagram. Mere is also in the middle of his book and, though it can be a bit heady, it also has a contemplative, spiritual depth that is appreciated. Last Enneagram resource we’ll remind you of before we get to the two fun things mentioned in our Shoot The Breeze episode: The Liturgist Podcast episode with Ian Cron and Susan Stabile discussing the Enneagram is arguably the BEST starting point to learn. We’ve linked this particular episode many other times in our show notes because truly, we cannot say enough about it. It’s definitely time to check it out if you haven’t already! And finally, the two fun things referenced in the beginning of the show: The Giving Keys and the Digital Gene App. Yes, purchasing a Giving Key will cost you $40. AND. You are employing folks transitioning out of homelessness AND purchasing a word that speaks to you; a word out of which you can live for as long as you need before you pass it along to someone who needs it next. You might remember Nicole passing Meredith her “Courage” key in Episode 7 before Meredith shared her Deconstruction story. You can learn more about this fabulous company here. The second fun mention is the Digital Gene World Map Puzzle that is like the nerd’s version of Bedazzled Jewels- or whatever that game was. It’s like a matching game but for countries all over the world. And there are levels! This actually sounds right up my (Mere’s) ally- I once knew all of the capitals in the world thanks to my 7th grade Geography teacher, Dr. O’Brien. Thanks, Nic, for getting us all addicted to this app! Ok, friends, that’s it from us. As always, thanks for listening, and do feel free to connect with us on Instagram or by shooting an email to roomforbothpodcast@gmail.com! -Nic & Mere One more thing… If you're not yet subscribed to the Room For Both podcast (and you're here on a mobile device) you can subscribe below to stay in-the-know about future episode releases. And, if you've yet to rate/review the podcast on iTunes, can you please take a minute to hop over there and leave your thoughts? It helps so much for a baby podcast like ours and we'd love the feedback!

In Part 2 of our Deconstruction Series, Meredith shares her faith journey with us. It's a raw, honest assessment of the Meredith she once was and the Meredith she is today centered around an unforeseeable tragedy that changed everything, and ultimately, set her on a path to spiritual freedom.

We're in part one of our discussion about spiritual deconstruction, in which we'll be processing our own experiences of breaking faith structures, who has helped us navigate the waters, and some things we've learned along the way. Nic’s up first and shares with us the story of how her relationship with God, the church, and her understanding of the Holy has transformed over the last several years, as she's found herself at the intersection of conflicting messages, difficult circumstances, and a faith that continues to beckon her. SHOW NOTES FOR EPISODE #6 In this Shoot The Breeze, we utter the term “dry tinkle." So. You’re welcome for that. But before we (ahem, Mere) uses such a remarkable phrase, we talk recipes from a dinner party we had with our college crew the night before.  Here goes.... If you’re not following Bakerita (Rachel Connors) on Insta, YA NEED TO BE. If you are ever in need of delicious dessert recipes, Rachel is your girl. Her No Bake Cherry Cheesecake with Chocolate Ganache did not disappoint. (Cue Meredith eating everyone's leftover crust as she cleaned up the dishes...) Here are the other recipes we mention: Paleo Lettuce Wraps + Walnut/Mushroom Meat Substitute + Cilantro Lime Rice.  And of course, the mighty Instant Pot- revolutionizing cooking for non-cooks and cooks everywhere! (3-MINUTE CHICKEN NOODLE DISH, ANYONE?!) (See below for the pic of the noodle dish Nic mentions by Pinch of Yum.) We also mentioned the glory that is Queer Eye. Tell us you are already watching this show. Okay, whew. We can be friends. We must know: What is your favorite episode?! And to finalize our Shoot the Breeze show notes....may we now present, the Antoni and Christian Bale comparison: Twins, right? Thank you. (Please picture Mere in the background shouting, "I MEAN LOOK AT THEIR MOUTHS. THEY HAVE THE EXACT. SAME. MOUTHS. IT'S UNCANNY!")   Now moving into our Processing Out Loud segment…   If you find yourself on any kind of deconstruction journey, Mere highly recommends Jonathan Martin’s book, How To Survive A Shipwreck. He speaks with authority and vulnerability, compassion and resilience. (Also of note: Jonathan has a podcast, Son of a Preacher Man, that is particularly wonderful and also touches on themes of deconstruction.)  Nic also mentions a church she and her husband, Jeff, attended when they lived in Atlanta- Kairos Church- in case any of you Atlanta dwellers are interested in a space that feels as refreshing and honest as an AA meeting. Finally, Nicole recites a Richard Rohr quote saying, “The church is both my greatest intellectual problem and my most consoling home.” Friends, if you want a voice to speak with tenderness and grace to you wherever you find yourself on your faith journey, might we recommend some readings by Richard Rohr? Nic is currently reading ‘Falling Upward’ and Mere is reading ‘Simplicity’. These are just two of the MANY books he has written. His words are like taking in a deep breath of air that your soul has needed to inhale for a long, long time. (Also of note: Father Rohr appears a couple of times on the Deconstructionist Podcast and each of the episodes is magnificent). Thanks for traversing with us into the wild, glorious territory that is the deconstruction of faith. We will be curious if any of you have experienced faith deconstructions of your own!   -Nic & Mere

We reflect on what we would tell our 20, 25, and 30 year old selves. From prioritizing community, to no longer "suffocating from the shoulds," and extending grace to ourselves for the journey we're on, this is a discussion to which we hope many of you can connect and relate. SHOW NOTES FOR EPISODE #5: In the first part of the show, we discuss the INCREDIBLE dinner we had at The Populist in Denver.  This is the Salt & Vinegar popcorn we mention. SO STINKING good.  A pic of us with our dear friend and future Bonus Mom, Brit. We mention her in the show for being a BOSS and such a huge help to us throughout this podcast endeavor. Oh, and this is the gorgeous patio/ivy wall we reference- isn't she a beaut?! Just the casual/lovely display of fare you can expect at The Populist   Mere has been digging the Head to Heart Podcast with Christa and Luke Gifford (@spirituallysexy / @masterheart.luke / @headtoheartpodcast on Instagram). It’s a podcast detailing their faith and marital journey (and how they came back stronger than ever after infidelity). The podcast episode Mere references is Episode 11 (she thinks…) Overall, she finds Head to Heart a really interesting listen with authentic (sometimes downright ballsy) conversation between this married duo. Mere learned the term 'deconstruction' through Jonathan Martin, host of the Son Of A Preacher Man podcast and someone who has been a big voice of healing for Mere. Side note: Jonathan also creates daily meditations which you can sign up for here. Nic mentions the Liturgist podcastin reference to deconstruction of faith. Nic has found the topics and conversations on this podcast particularly interesting, thoughtful, and insightful during her own deconstruction journey.  What Nic is digging: Amazon Smile! If you order through this URL when you place a qualifying purchase, you can benefit a charity of your choice! WHAT A GREAT WAY TO SHOP AND GIVE BACK AT THE EXACT SAME TIME! Now THERE'S a reason to smile. #sorry #hadto  Also, any other HP lovers in the house?! Even after living with Nicole for four years, Mere JUST learned that Nicole reads all of the Harry Potter books every fall. We may need to do an episode on Harry Potter to honor Nic and her move to London..... Ok. Moving right along. Remember the gal who told her client her kids "aren't that cute" ? This is her! Wendy Mogel, parenting expert and guest on the Armchair Expert podcast (hosted by Dax Shepherd). She looks too gentle to have told someone her kids weren't cute. Oh to live in such freedom...   Lastly, Mere recommends this restaurateur, yogi, business badass, and down-to-earth British gal, Ella Woodward, with whom Nic ABSOLUTELY MUST become bffs when she moves to London. I (Mere) act like I know the woman when really I'm just a BIG FAN. Her recipes and cookbooks and other endeavors are GORGEOUS people. Check this gem of a human out.      We hope you've enjoyed this discussion as much as we have. And we're curious: What would you tell your 20, 25, or 30 year old self? Give us your thoughts on Instagram or shoot us an email. We absolutely LOVE HEARING FROM YOU.  Ok. We're done yelling. We adore you, RFB tribe. Catch you next time! -Nic & Mere Oh, and if you're not yet subscribed to the Room For Both podcast (and you're here on a mobile device) you can subscribe below to stay in-the-know about future episode releases. And, if you've yet to rate/review the podcast on iTunes, can you please take a minute to hop over there and leave your thoughts? It helps so much for a baby podcast like ours and we'd love the feedback!

In this episode, Nic and Mere unpack the Families Belong Together rally they attended in Denver. As they processed their experience, the conversation quickly transitioned to a dialogue about the impact of dehumanizing and demonizing the ‘other side’ and how it chips away at our common humanity. We also unpack how we can hold space for curiosity toward ourselves and others.

We conclude our conversation with Sarah Jackson of Casa de Paz, an organization that supports immigrants who have been detained or whose family members have been detained. This discussion helped us connect with the topic of immigration less at an issue level and more at a human level; we hope it does the same for you. Show Notes Can we just say how fun it was journeying down memory lane and remembering our college advocacy days?! Wow. We were babies. Look at Nic's hair and the Invisible Children shirt she rocked to no end. (Also, there's Jeff, our trusty and talented sound guy- he's been an enthusiastic supporter of Nic & Mere's ventures for YEARS.) [photos at www.roomforbothpodcast.com] Above is the crew that got the art auction we talked about off the ground and below is a particularly special treat. See if you can spot Mere (it's like Where's Waldo?, Room For Both style, and friends, once you find her, we promise you're in for a treat.) The above photo was taken at one of the events Mere and Nic discussed, in which we left our homes (campus) at sun down and walked to the town square to sleep, emulating what hundreds of thousands of Ugandan children had been doing to avoid being abducted from their homes to serve as child soldiers. Our walk was about 1.5 miles, theirs closer to 10 miles each way. These felt like some of the most important days of our lives. OK. Now onto Resistbot. Resistbot is a texting tool you can use to craft a message to your members of Congress, and the app will send it along for you.  It’s so easy. You text the number 50409 and Resistbot will find who represents you in Congress after you answer a couple of simple questions (it’s legit, don’t worry).  Then, you craft your message and Resistbot sends it to your Representatives. Simple as that! If you’re interested in calling your members of Congress, find your Senators' phone number here and your Representatives' number here. If you’re not sure what name you’re looking for, use this website to find your Representative, and this website to find your Senator (no shame!) You can often find a script online for specific issues that you can read on the phone to the staffer who answers (or rehearse ahead of time as Meredith has been known to do). Or you can simply take the question-asking route and say something like, “Hi there! I’m a concerned Idaho citizen wondering what Senator Crapo is doing to help unite families who have been separated at the border...” (Because, why not ask? You’re not being antagonistic- you’re genuinely curious!) The key, as you of course already know, is to remain humble and kind. These folks field calls all day and by and large WANT to be of help. If they don’t have the answer to the question you asked, they are mandated to go find the answer and call you back- how great is that?! Fun Fact: Meredith (back in her OVERLY brazen days as a young college activist) once went around to a room full of people all stuck in the basement of our dorm during a tornado and held a phone up to each of their ears. She proceeded to feed these poor souls a script of what to say to the staffer on the other line about a piece of legislation that would put the Lord’s Resistance Army on the terrorist watch list (Luke, if you’re reading this and can fact-check us, that’d be great. It has been a minute.) Guys. She literally went up to every single person in that cramped basement, held her cell phone up to their ear, and told them exactly what to say. No one has ever accused her of not feeling things with deep conviction (or being a little annoying about it!) Speaking of activism, one of the organizations whose work we’ve been following is Together Rising, founded by Glennon Doyle. They’ve raised more than $1.5 million dollars to support people and organizations (lawyers, social workers, etc) who are working tirelessly to reunite families that have been separated at the border. They remain on mission even when the headlines have petered out in the news. If you’re looking to give to an organization doing work on a national level, we recommend Together Rising. Check out this article to see the ways the funds they have received are at work. This goes without saying, but every little bit counts. Every. Little. Bit.  And lastly, if you’re in the Denver area and want to volunteer with Casa de Paz, or if you just want to learn more about what they do (because maybe you want to start your own apartamento/casa de paz?!) check them out here!  And friends, can we just share some good news?! Since recording this episode, the guest that was separated from her seven-year-old daughter has been reunited with her little girl. See the sweet outfit she gave her girl below (along with the Frozen backpack, of course.) It's THE BEST!  Thanks for journeying with us through this topic and these stories, friends. As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts, input, and questions. Drop us a line on Instagram or via email. Until next time! -Nic and Mere

We chat with Sarah Jackson, founder of Casa de Paz and host/friend/advocate to thousands of immigrants who have been detained in the United States. The Casa's mission is simple: Ease the isolating experience of immigrant detention one simple act of love at a time. We had such a rich conversation with Sarah that we've split this discussion into two parts. Join us this time as we learn where Sarah got the idea to start Casa de Paz, who she's met along the way, and what she hopes we can all walk away from this discussion understanding about immigration. Show Notes Here’s a list of things we chatted about during the show. Ina’s Roast Chicken: GUYS. This chicken. So easy, so moist, so stinkin’ lovely. Feeds 3-4 easily and makes the BEST leftover chicken stock. Ina can always be trusted. Also: crunchy chicken skin. Need we say more? We also discussed a zucchini puree that Mere served under the chicken. You can find that recipe over on her food IG account @perptuallypeckish. It is DELICIOUS.  Albion Fit: REAL CUTE swimsuits that are appropriate enough to wear in front of your father-in-law. Can we get a witness?! Our suits are here, here, and here (See Nic rockin' her Izabal bottoms and Weekender Switchback crop top below.)  Bonus: Albion has stuff for men and kids, too. High quality, super chic, and worth every penny. As usual, we are not sponsored or affiliated in any way, just HAPPY consumers. And, of course, VOXER! We don’t know what we’d do without it. We use it incessantly to talk all things podcast and life. Mere also loves it to keep up with her girlfriends spread across the country- they have a group thread which has immensely helped everyone stay in touch. Also, Nic loves how much Mere uses it; she never gets overwhelmed by the amount of notifications after a full day of work. ;D Lastly, Nic mentioned Diane Guerrero's book, In The Country We Love: My Family Divided. It's a good read if you want to hear a firsthand account of someone whose life has been affected by deportation. She also provides a peak into her journey breaking into the acting world, in case that rings your chimes. Thanks for entering into this conversation with us. We're eager to hear what you're thinking and doing to connect with this topic and the people at the heart of it. Stay tuned for Episode 3, where we'll continue our chat with Sarah and unpack our yes-and moments. Until next time, friends!  - Nic & Mere

We're chatting all things Brene Brown. From the takeaways we've gained through her books, to the perks (and challenges) of being vulnerable, we explain why we're so into this shame researcher from Texas and how her principles have made our lives and relationships richer. You'll also hear a bit more about why we started this podcast, as well as some products we're currently LOVING. Here's a list of the things we chatted about during the show:  Y'all. This deodorant from Primally Pure is no joke. We both use the Lemongrass scent and it is the first natural deodorant we've used that ACTUALLY WORKS. They have other scents- Geranium and Lavendar- as well as a Charcoal Deodorant. Let us know if you try the other scents! (We are not sponsored and have no affiliation with Primally Pure.) We're legitimately happy (and fresh smelling) customers! Ok- onto Hotel Born, the Kimpton Hotel Mere and Scott stayed at in Denver. They quite literally have a staff person in charge of curating playlists for different environments within each of their hotels across the country. Pretty legit. Find them on Spotify. Oh! And find the other gal Mere mentions: Monique Volz (aka @ambitiouskitchen) on Spotify too. Here are the books we mention in the podcast: Mere LOVES the Mark Hyman food book and has found it to be SO clarifying for figuring out (finally) what is actually GOOD for our bodies, the planet, the people who grow the food, etc. And of course, here are the Brené books we reference- Daring Greatly, Rising Strong, Braving The Wilderness and The Power of Vulnerability, which Nic and Jeff listened to via Audible on their drive home from Colorado to Georgia for Christmas. Finally, the book Meredith briefly discussed about the body remembering and holding onto trauma (not by Dan Allender as originally thought, but by Babette Rothschild). And we just had to include one of Meredith's all-time favorite books, that she can't remember where in the podcast is mentioned, but feels sure it was... Jen Hatmaker's For The Love. Get ready to wet your pants in public from laughing so hard. Some of the people we give a shoutout to in this podcast, in case you're interested in giving them a lil' insta-follow: @jenhatmaker @brenebrown @markhymanmd @glennondoyle Ok. One final thing. We couldn't leave you without some info on the recipe Meredith is RAVING about during the podcast outro. If you missed it, it's right at the end (just when you think we're done talking) after the exit music is finished playing. I (Nicole) cooked this shrimp/kale/cauliflower dish for Mere the night we recorded this episode, and it is DELICIOUS. If you don't know Lindsay over at Pinch of Yum, check her out- Nic's favorite food blogger! We so enjoyed this discussion and hope you did too. Please join the conversation we're having on Instagram- we'd love to hear your "Brenéd" story! Until next time, friends.