Podcasts about brene

In this episode we dive into the tough but liberating journey of finding peace when relationships end without closure. Drawing from Brene' Brown's powerful insights, we explore how to let go of unresolved pain, whether it's a family rift, a lost friendship, or a romance that ended in silence, without letting it define you. Learn why peace isn't weak but a bold choice to accept what happened and reclaim your life. Check out Episode 563! I love you guys!

Storytelling is a powerful way to create relationships with your audience. Your stories allow you audience to get to know you. STORYTELLING BY THE BEST The best speakers in the world use powerful storytelling. Zig Ziglar always used great stories in every point he made. He was a master at storytelling. If you've listened to Zig, you've heard the story of the old water pump or the selling pans door to door. He made his stories come to life. When Simon Sinek speaks, he is always telling stories. Watch his TedTalk on starting with why and you will see a talk filled with stories. Brene' Brown is one of my favorites. Her stories of struggle and success make you fall in love with everything she does. Storytelling allows your audience to get to know you. By the stories you tell, your listeners know what you value, what you believe and how you operate. Friendships are formed through storytelling. Watch these three and others to learn from the best. TRANSPORT YOUR LISTENER One reason storytelling is so powerful is that stories transport your listener to other places. They forget about their problems and struggles for a bit. To take your listeners somewhere else, use visual words. Bring your story to life in the theater of the mind. Use words they can see. Active language helps your story come to life. It is easier to see walking than walked. "He walked into the diner" is harder to envision than "He came walking into the diner." Use all five senses. What did it look like? Describe the smells. What were the sounds? How did you feel? The more descriptive your story, the more it will come to life in your listener's mind. DO I LIKE YOU? Stories will help people decide if they like you. Your listeners need to like you in order to listen to you. They are going to spend 30 minutes or an hour with you in their earbuds. It better be more than info. Pretend they are asking, "Would I enjoy taking a one-hour car ride with this person every week?" That is really the essence of your show. Develop friendships by telling a story to your best friend. Let your listener learn something about you. REVEAL THINGS THROUGH STORYTELLING When I review shows for my clients, I always ask myself, "What do I know about the host that I didn't know before the show started?" Reveal things about yourself to let your listeners get closer to you. During a show review for a client recently, he referenced his Italian in-laws, mentioned the movie Talladega Nights and talked about the R&B group Boyz II Men. Little things like that let us get to know him. When are building your influence and authority, you need to become a powerful personality that attracts people. Storytelling defines your character. This is how people get to know, like and trust you. The Bible has lasted for thousands of years because of the stories around a powerful character. Comic book heroes have been around for decades due to the stories and characters. Zig Ziglar was influential because of his storytelling and powerful personality. To increase your influence and significance, leverage storytelling. STORYTELLING WITH DR. MICHELE GUNDERSON In this episode, we have a fantastic interview with Dr. Michele Gunderson. She is a former university instructor and Iyengar yoga teacher who has transformed into a successful entrepreneur. Dr. Michele possesses a unique talent for helping business owners align their inner and outer worlds through storytelling, which can catapult their businesses to new heights. During my conversation with Dr. Michele, you'll learn how understanding and harnessing the power of story can lead to incredible opportunities, whether you're working to grow your podcast, inspire an audience, or achieve five- or six-figure months in your business. We'll dive into key elements that make stories memorable and compelling, and how they can transform not just your messaging but your entire business strategy. Dr. Michele also provides practical insights into recognizing empowering and disempowering narratives within ourselves and their impact on our business results. Get ready to be inspired as Dr. Michele Gunderson guides us through the art of storytelling and how it connects us deeply with the world around us. It's a conversation filled with fascinating insights and actionable tips on harnessing the undeniable power of story to drive your success. Dr. Michele's free gift is called "7 Quick Tips for Crafting an Inspiring Story That Sells". You can download it at QuickStoryTips.com. HELP WITH YOUR STORYTELLING Let me help you with your storytelling. If you don't have a mentor who can take your hand and walk you every step of the way, go to www.PodcastTalentCoach.com/apply. You can click the button and apply to have a chat with me. We will develop your plan and see how I can help and support you to achieve your podcast goals. Let's get started today.

Hoje Thais entrevista a Louise Carvalho, mentora de negócios e tiktoker que criou uma estratégia multifunil para conseguir vender sua mentoria em múltiplas plataformas com facilidade. Ela faturou um milhão de reais em 2024, depois de sair do corporativo para tentar a carreira solo, e conseguiu! Hoje Louise lidera 70 mentoradas e uma equipe 100% feminina. Vambora entender esse sucesso? Aceleradora de empreendedoras com cursos online – TR Circle: www.trcircle.com Livro – De Carona Na Carreira https://amzn.to/4fGu271 Toda semana tem novo episódio no ar, pra não perder nenhum, siga:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thaisroque/ Instagram Thais: https://www.instagram.com/thaisroque/  Instagram DCNC: https://www.instagram.com/decaronanacarreira/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@decaronanacarreira YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Decaronanacarreira?sub_confirmation=1 Thaís veste Look – Francesca - https://www.instagram.com/shopfrancesca/ Sapatos – Ferragamo - https://www.instagram.com/ferragamo/ Stylist - André Puertas  Beleza – Cris Dalle Link da Louise: Insta  - https://www.instagram.com/louisecarvalho.a/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@louisecarvalho.a Mala de viagem: Cem anos de solidão - https://amzn.to/4aENuz5 Martha Stewart - https://www.adorocinema.com/filmes/filme-1000012301/ TED da Brene - https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_the_power_of_vulnerability Equipe que faz acontecer: Criação, roteiro e apresentação: Thais Roque Consultoria de conteúdo: Alvaro Leme Supervisão: José Newton Fonseca Sonorização e edição: Felipe Dantas Identidade Visual: João Magagnin

In this rare and brief solo episode, host Megan Powers takes us through the concept of grounded confidence, referencing the theory shared in Brene' Brown's book "Atlas of the Heart."  Megan gives some of her personal background, including her unique upbringing as the youngest of nine children and how it shaped her extroverted personality and approach to learning. She reflects on her academic struggles and eventual success, highlighting the importance of leaning into one's strengths and embracing personal growth.  Learn About...  - Grounded Confidence: Discover how grounded confidence is important for meaningful connections.  - Self-Assessment and Growth: Explore the idea of "I'm here to get it right, not to be right," and how self-assessment can lead to personal and professional growth.  - Embodied Awareness: Understand the significance of listening to our bodies and how it relates to grounded confidence.  In exploring Brown's theory, Megan explores looking at self-awareness and practice in building grounded confidence, and connecting better with others.  ~._.*._.~ Making a Marketer is brought to you by Powers of Marketing - providing exceptional podcast experiences & online and in-person events. Check out episode 162, and if our show moves you, please share it and let us know your thoughts! Take our LISTENER Community Survey!!! HERE ** Our editor Avri makes amazing music! Check out his music on Spotify! **

Listen in as the geeks discussed:Why land investing?Land business vs. Long term rentals.Land flipping vs. House flipping.Less risk in land investing.The emphasis on processes.Land investing vs. the corporate world.Mark also discussed the benefit of having the Land Geek community.  TIP OF THE WEEKStephanie: Read The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown. Dive into how vulnerability and letting go of unrealistic expectations can positively impact your business and personal relationships. Brene's work encourages you to embrace your true self, making authentic connections with others. WANT TO LISTEN MORE?Did you like this episode? If so, listen to another AOPI episode to hear more about land investing tips that can help your land business."Are you ready to learn more about land investing? Just click HERE to schedule a call.""Isn't it time to create passive income so you can work where you want when you want, and with whomever you want?"

The Vulnerability Myth (Part 1)  Let's face it— dating and relationships can be a minefield for men. On one side, we're told to open up, be vulnerable, and share our emotions. But when we do, the response isn't always what we expect. Sometimes, it's met with anger, confusion, or even panic. Other times, it feels like the person across from us wants to jump in and fix our problems as if we can't handle them ourselves. It's a tricky balance. Here's the truth: being emotionally aware and understanding how to regulate our feelings is critical for men. But vulnerability alone isn't a magic key that unlocks deeper relationships or solves all our problems. In fact, without the right understanding and approach, vulnerability can create more confusion, leaving us and our partners feeling lost. So, in today's episode, we're diving into what it really means to be vulnerable as a man in today's world—how to find that balance between strength and openness, and why emotional awareness is the foundation for real, healthy connection. We'll bust some myths, share some stories, and give you practical steps to navigate this space with confidence. Let's get into it. So what is the Vulnerability Myth? Reid's Setup of the Vulnerability Myth : The "Vulnerability Myth" tells us that if men just open up, share their emotions, and show vulnerability to their partner, they'll automatically be seen as good men, and magically, all their problems will disappear. But here's the truth: vulnerability alone isn't a magic wand. It's important, yes—but it's only part of the equation. When your partner asks you to be more vulnerable, they aren't looking for you to fix every problem in your relationship. What they really want is to know that you're aware of your inner world and that you can manage your emotions in a healthy way. They want to see you not just feeling things but moving through those emotions with intention—whether that's through self-care, leaning on your support system, or simply knowing when to take a step back. Ultimately, a man who understands what he's feeling and knows how to navigate those emotions with the right tools and a supportive community becomes someone who feels steady and trustworthy—someone who is both safe and desirable as a partner. As Connor Beaton puts it, “A man who is not aware of his emotional state, denies it, or cannot control his emotions when they arise, is seen as a potential danger, weak, and a threat—not only to himself but to his family, his partner, and women in general.” “Vulnerability, when met with misunderstanding or negativity, can do more harm than good.” “Men often feel encouraged to open up but then face emotional responses from their partners that push them away. It creates a cycle of disconnection.” Reflection: “Have you ever felt pressured to be vulnerable but didn't know how or felt punished when you tried? How have these experiences shaped your view on vulnerability?” Myths About Vulnerability Myth 1: Vulnerability is a Weakness “Vulnerability is an act of courage, not weakness. It's about showing up despite uncertainty and risk.” Myth 2: Men Don't Do Vulnerability “Our lives are full of uncertainty and emotional exposure. Leaning into these dynamics is the essence of vulnerability.” Myth 3: I Can Go It Alone “Humans are wired for connection. Belonging is crucial for our mental well-being, and groups like AMG provide that space.” Myth 4: Trust Comes Before Vulnerability “Trust and vulnerability go hand-in-hand. Vulnerability fosters trust when done with intention.” Myth 5: Vulnerability is Disclosing Everything to Everyone “True vulnerability requires discernment. Without boundaries, it becomes manipulation or oversharing.” I love this statement by Brene' Brown.  If we are sharing vulnerabilities just for the sake of sharing, then maybe we have an ulterior motive.  

Leading with VulnerabilityInsights from a former Army Officer turned Executive Coach Discover the powerful journey of @Turningpoint coach @Tony Cerella, as he shares his perspective on the importance of vulnerability in leadership. Drawing on his unique military experience, Tony shares how embracing vulnerability transformed his career, from leading troops in high-stakes environments to becoming a coach. Initially hesitant about the idea, Tony's journey led him to recognize the power of sharing emotions, reflections, and struggles as a leader. He highlights how vulnerability fosters trust and empathy, creating psychologically safe spaces for teams. Listen in as Tony reflects on @Brene Brown's insights and the lasting impact of vulnerable leadership…Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

The topic of regrets has come up in multiple conversations recently, so I'm reposting a show I often reference. “No regrets” is an American slogan along with “No Fear” and “Just Do It.” Yet more often than not we don't, just do it. Nor should we. And having no fear is psychopathic. To me, having no regrets means you have no sorrow for ever hurting anyone or making a mistake. Even if you learned a lot and redeemed some things, I've felt regret has a purpose. Regret is simply recognizing sadness or disappointment about something we did that we wish we hadn't, or we didn't do and wish we had, and Dan Pink's research showcases it's a massive power if we'll recognize your regrets and learn from them. Not as he says, reject them or wallow in them. This was my second time having Dan on the show. He's a multi-best selling author, and when I say best selling, I don't mean one day on an obscure Amazon book category like Amish Romance, but the actual New York Times bestseller list. You'll likely recognize his books such as A Whole New Mind, Drive, To Sell Is Human, and When. His books have sold millions of copies, have been translated into forty-two languages. He also has a TED talk titled “The Puzzle of Motivation” which has somewhere north of 30 million views. Dan is an author like Brene' Brown who leads with research, and my muse in this episode is his book, The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward. I asked him back on the show the moment I saw the book title and you're about to hear me dig in with him on how we can harness regret for our progress, not suffer or run from it. Find The Power of Regret anywhere you get books and connect with Dan at danpink.com Sign up for a $1/month trial period at shopify.com/kevin Go to shipstation.com and use code KEVIN to sign up for your FREE 60-day trial. Get 20% off your first probiotic membership order at pendulumlife.com/drivesyou  Kajabi is offering a free 30-day trial to start your business if you go to Kajabi.com/kevin Go to Quince.com/drives for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns Go to cozyearth.com/driven and use code DRIVEN for an exclusive 40% discount Join thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply in minutes at meetfabric.com/WHATDRIVESYOU. If you're concerned about OCD, visit NOCD.com to schedule a free 15-minute call with their team. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Access the full episode HERE: https://www.patreon.com/4ndrewpledgerIn this Patreon bonus episode I delve into betrayal trauma, a concept I recently discovered that deeply resonates with me. Drawing from Brene' Brown's book 'Atlas of the Heart' and insights from Dr. Ramini, I explore the profound impact of betrayal from trusted individuals and institutions. I discuss the symptoms and emotional toll of betrayal, including feelings of depression, anxiety, and shame. I highlight the specific betrayal experienced within high-control religious environments and abusive familial settings and reference the institutional betrayal exemplified by the cover-up culture at Bob Jones University, as detailed in the Grace Report. I emphasize the devastating consequences of these betrayals and share insights on healing.JOIN MY PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/4ndrewpledgerFacebook Discussion Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1153866318625322/My Substack: https://speakingupandrewpledger.substack.com/Linktree: https://andrewpledger.mypixieset.com/links-Music: https://www.purple-planet.com*Some audio is regenerated by AI because of mispronunciations and/or recording issues Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hoje Thais entrevista a dançarina, influencer e empresária Lore Improta que com seu carisma conquistou milhões de brasileiros e foi uma das poucas pessoas no Brasil que conseguiu ganhar dinheiro com dança. Ela começou muito jovem, dançando para a Carla Perez, e foi ganhando seu espaço até construir a história que tem hoje. Vambora entender como esse sucesso aconteceu? Meu grupo de empreendedoras com cursos online – TR Circle: www.trcircle.com Livro – De Carona Na Carreira https://amzn.to/4fGu271 Toda semana tem novo episódio no ar, pra não perder nenhum, siga:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thaisroque/ Instagram Thais: https://www.instagram.com/thaisroque/  Instagram DCNC: https://www.instagram.com/decaronanacarreira/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@decaronanacarreira YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Decaronanacarreira?sub_confirmation=1 Thaís veste Top – Framed - https://www.instagram.com/framed_clothing Calça - Calvin Klein - https://www.instagram.com/calvinkleinbrasil/ Sapatos – Bottega Venetta Stylist - André Puertas  Beleza – Cris Dalle Links da Lore: Insta - https://www.instagram.com/loreimprota/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@LoreImprotaOficial TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@loreimprotaoficial Mala de viagem: A coragem de ser imperfeito - https://amzn.to/4elg7St Doc na Netflix da Brene - https://www.netflix.com/watch/81010166 Equipe que faz acontecer: Criação, roteiro e apresentação: Thais Roque Consultoria de conteúdo: Alvaro Leme Supervisão: José Newton Fonseca Sonorização e edição: Felipe Dantas Identidade Visual: João Magagnin

Dr. Carol Parker Walsh shares her journey from a diverse background to becoming a consultant and advocate for individuals in their careers. She discusses the impact of her parents' contrasting narratives on her upbringing and the lessons she learned from their divorce. Dr. Walsh also highlights the importance of valuing and developing people within organizations and the need for women to be represented in leadership roles. She provides insights on creating opportunities for women's advancement and the benefits of mentorship and sponsorship. Dr. Walsh emphasizes the power of community and collaboration in supporting women's growth and success. In this conversation, Dr. Carol Parker Walsh and Marcylle Combs discuss the importance of embracing authenticity, finding one's voice, and trusting one's gut. They explore the concept of success and how it evolves over time, emphasizing the need to prioritize personal happiness and fulfillment. Dr. Walsh shares her own journey of transitioning from a focus on external markers of success to aligning her work with her passions and values. She encourages the next generation of women to explore their true desires and not be limited by societal expectations. The conversation concludes with book recommendations that have had a profound impact on Dr. Walsh's life. Takeaways The importance of valuing and developing people within organizations for success and retention. The need for women to be represented in leadership roles and the benefits it brings to organizations. Creating opportunities for women's advancement through mentorship, sponsorship, and community support. The power of community and collaboration in supporting women's growth and success. Embrace your authenticity, find your voice, and trust your gut. Prioritize personal happiness and fulfillment over external markers of success. Ask yourself what you truly want to do and give yourself permission to explore it. Don't be limited by societal expectations; create your own path. Never regret the things you do; regret the things you don't do. Use your innate gifts, skills, and education to create something new and exciting. A catalyst for transformational growth and development, Dr. Carol has a gift for unlocking innovation, turning ideas into actionable steps, and driving sustainable results. Leveraging three decades as a labor and employment attorney, corporate executive, and academic leader, complimented by her extensive doctoral training and research, she uses a customized approach to equip leaders with the resources necessary to navigate and adapt to the shifting organizational terrain while managing themselves and their teams. As a certified brand strategist, Dr. Carol elevates leaders' influence, establishing them as industry and organizational authorities. She champions the advancement of women's leadership, with a proven record of accelerating career trajectories for female leaders, enhancing top talent retention, and promoting organizational outcomes.  In addition to managing an award-winning consulting firm, Dr. Carol has been recognized as a TEDx speaker, three-time Amazon best-selling author, & published member of the Forbes Coaches Council, Newsweek Expert Forum, and Entrepreneur's Leadership Network. Her influence extended to a myriad of platforms as a sought-after keynote speaker, Fellow of the Harvard Institute of Coaching, resident career and leadership expert on ABC's AM Northwest Morning Show, and hosting her widely-acclaimed podcast, The Midlife Career Rebel. Get in Touch with Dr Walsh www.carolparkerwalsh.com (4) Dr. Carol Parker Walsh, JD, PhD | LinkedIn About Carol Parker Walsh Consulting Group (youtube.com) Book Recommendations: 1.       The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene' Brown 2.       Mindset by Carol Dweck 3.        The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz 4.       The Seed by Jon Gordon 5.       Be Yourself, Everyone Else is Already Taken by Mike Robbins

In a world of fast internet, it feels sometimes like we are all alone in a room full people. What if we slowed down just enough to re-connect; to feel seen and be seen. What would change inside us?"In order for connection to happen, we have to allow ourselves to be seen, and in turn see others, too." -Brene' BrownSHOW NOTES:Join Life and Wellness Coach, Kira Mesi as she navigates the ups and downs of life through personal experience, storytelling, and interviews. Learn to lean into your best self with the mindful practice of gratitude living, honoring your soul's purpose, and the joy of Finding Rainbows on an ordinary day."Dive into the ordinary looking for the extraordinary because life is hard, but if you look close enough, you will find the Rainbows." ~KiraBUY A MUG! -SHOP OUR RAINBOWS STORE AND SUPPORT THE PODCASTFinding Rainbows The Podcast (finding-rainbows-the-podcast.myshopify.com)*Grab our bestselling hoodie and support a worthy cause!LOVE IS THE ANSWER! Our bestselling hoodie is not only a work of art b – Finding Rainbows The Podcast (finding-rainbows-the-podcast.myshopify.com)*All proceeds of the Love is the answer" hoodie to: Meals By GraceFOLLOW ME FOR MORE INSPIRATION:@FindingRainbows | Linktree*Schedule your Free Online Life Coaching Consultation with me and start creating a life you love today!Who am I? • @findingrainbows • Milkshake Website Builder (msha.ke)BOOKS I AM READING...so far (for the promise I made to myself to read a book a month this year :)The Confident Athlete: 4 Easy Steps to Build and Maintain Confidence by Tami Matheny, Paperback | Barnes & Noble® (barnesandnoble.com)The Nanny by Lana Ferguson | GoodreadsThe Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid | GoodreadsHappy Place by Emily Henry | GoodreadsBook Lovers by Emily Henry | GoodreadsPeople We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry | GoodreadsEverything We Never Said by Sloan Harlow | GoodreadsRebel Rising by Rebel Wilson | GoodreadsUnder the Magnolias by T.I. Lowe | GoodreadsSupport the Show.

1. Brené and Barrett share their parenting strategy that Brené calls “the opposite of raising a child that's full of shame.” 2. The family of origin roles that Brené (the Protector) and Barrett (the Peacekeeper) had to adjust in order to work together – and the two keys to working well with family.   3. The ways in which a child who grows up living on eggshells becomes an adult who is fearful – and how that fear shows up differently for Brené, Barrett, Glennon, and Amanda.    4. The hilarious moment when each sister confesses a secret that they fear the other believes about them–and we find out whether or not it's true.  5. How Brené and Barrett are walking through the grief of their mother's sudden decline, and how they circle back when the stress of that grief makes them shitty to each other.   About Brené:  Dr. Brené Brown is a research professor at the University of Houston where she holds the Huffington Foundation Endowed Chair at The Graduate College of Social Work.She has spent the past two decades studying courage, vulnerability, shame, and empathy, is the author of six #1 New York Times bestsellers, and is the host of the weekly podcasts Unlocking Us and Dare to Lead.  Brené's books have been translated into more than 30 languages and titles include:  Dare to Lead, Braving the Wilderness, Rising Strong, Daring Greatly, and The Gifts of Imperfection. Most recently Brené collaborated with Tarana Burke to co-edit You Are Your Best Thing: Vulnerability, Shame Resilience, and the Black Experience.  In her latest #1 New York Times bestseller, ATLAS OF THE HEART, which has been adapted for television and now streaming on HBO Max, she takes us on a journey through eighty-seven of the emotions and experiences that define what it means to be human.  Brené lives in Houston, Texas, with her husband, Steve. They have two children, Ellen and Charlie. TW: @BreneBrown IG: @BreneBrown About Barrett:  Barrett Guillen is Chief of Staff for Brené Brown Education and Research Group. With her team, Barrett supports both Brené and the organization by helping to prioritize competing demands, managing relationships, and building connective tissue and strategy across all business initiatives. Barrett holds bachelor's and master's degrees in Kinesiology from the University of Houston. After more than a decade in education in the Texas Panhandle, Barrett and her family moved back to the Houston area to join Brene's team in making the world a braver place. Having the opportunity to work with her sisters every day has been one of the great joys of her life. Outside the office, you can find Barrett spending time with her family (immediate and extended), enjoying her daughter's games, eating her husband's famous burgers, floating in the water (any water!), or on the pickle ball court. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when a community of strong and resilient women explore vulnerability and courageous leadership? In this episode of the Leading with Heart Podcast, I am talking about the enlightening insights from my book club focused on Brene Brown's powerful book, "Dare to Lead." I talk about themes for the book and our takeaways of embracing vulnerability, building trust, and cultivating skills around empathic and courageous leadership.Join us as we unravel Brene Brown's key principles, including rumbling with vulnerability, the difference between systemic and relational vulnerability, living into your values, how to build trust with yourself and with others, and learning to rise from failure. I share reflections on setting boundaries and creating a psychologically safe environment, and actionable tools from Brene for leadership excellence. Tune in for discussion filled with lessons on becoming a generous and courageous leader who fosters trust and empathy.SHOW NOTES: https://www.christinamattisonyoga.com/blog/episode46RESOURCES:Dare to Lead - Brene BrownConnect with me in the Strong and Resilient Woman Community on Facebook HERE (https://www.facebook.com/groups/yogaformilitarywomen)www.leadingwithheartpodcast.com (https://www.leadingwithheartpodcast.com/)Connect with me in the Strong and Resilient Woman Community on Facebook HERE (https://www.facebook.com/groups/yogaformilitarywomen), or on Instagram @themilitaryyogiMore about Christina Mattison and the Leading with Heart PodcastHey there! I'm Christina Mattison, an Air Force Officer, yoga teacher, dedicated wife, and proud mother of two. But most importantly, I'm here as a wellness and leadership coach for women in the military. I want you to know something: It doesn't have to be this way.I've walked in your combat boots, and I understand the chaos that often accompanies military life. But I'm here to share a powerful truth with you: You have the innate ability to transform your own life. I've personally experienced this transformation, and I've witnessed it in the lives of countless clients I've had the privilege to guide.Welcome to the Leading With Heart podcast — your ultimate resource for discovering how to infuse joy, peace, and true success into every facet of military life.**The views and opinions expressed within this podcast episode are those of the individual, and do not necessarily represent those of the Department of Defense or its components.

The echo of the past can be filled with uncertainties, especially for those touched by adoption. Award-winning author Julie McGue, a twin adoptee bravely bares her soul in her quest for identity within her richly blended family. Our conversation explores the topic of closed adoption, and highlights not only the obstacles faced by those denied access to their biological lineage and medical history, but also the universal longing to deeply understand our roots. From the insecurities of adoptive parents to the fear of rejection from birth parents, we travel the rocky road adoptees commonly face. But also, the transformative power of community and storytelling that can serve as a channel for the shared human experience that heals and shapes our lives. ⁣ ⁣ CHAPTERS/KEY MOMENTS⁣ 00:00 Intro ⁣ 04:38  Discovering Family History and DNA ⁣ 08:40 Navigating Family and Identity Struggles ⁣ 11:13 Reunion and Discovery⁣ 17:01  Adoption and Loss⁣ 19:15  Community Support  ⁣ 32:54 Ancestral Exploration and Healing  ⁣ 34:35 The Power of Storytelling⁣ 36:25  Rapid Fire Game⁣ 38:05 Julie's final thoughts⁣ 39:45 Hilary's closing ⁣ CONNECT WITH JULIE MCGUE⁣ https://www.juliemcgueauthor.com ⁣ www.facebook.com/juliemcguewrites⁣ www.instagram.com/julieryanmcgue⁣ www.linkedin.com/in/julie-mcgue-a246b841⁣ ⁣ JULIE'S BOOKS ON AMAZON⁣ ⁣”Twice a Daughter: A Search for Identity, Family, and Belonging” and “Belonging Matters: Conversations on Adoption, Family, and Kinship”⁣ ⁣ LEARN MORE ABOUT HAVENING WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/havening⁣ ⁣RECEIVE THE BRAIN CANDY NEWSLETTER https://hilaryrusso.com/braincandy CONNECT WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣  https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣ EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ⁣ (Full Transcript https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣)⁣ ⁣ 00:08 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ This is the day that she always feared would happen. And all of a sudden, here it is, it's happening, and she didn't show her best self. Did she come around? Yes, she came around, but it was a tricky mother-daughter conflict. We were adults, so we did work our best at re-encouraging everyone that the love was there. ⁣ ⁣ 00:31 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ We hear a lot of ups and downs when it comes to adoption, but one thing if you are not an adoptee or you're not even connected to the adoption community, a lot of questions come up about belonging, identity, how to make sure you know everything about your health and well-being and I have not covered this topic on HIListically Speaking before and I find this to be something that is extremely important for us to talk about whether you know somebody or you are an adoptee or you have adopted a child and I think one person that is a perfect guest to have on the show is Julie McGue. She is an adoptee, she is also a twin, and she is someone that did not seek out information about her adoption until later in life. And, Julie, this is a topic that I think does need more discussion, and I'm so glad you're here to share your experiences and your story. So thanks for being here. Thank you, yeah, oh. ⁣ ⁣ 01:41⁣ Was Julie adopted together with her sibling? Were they adopted separately, and how the relationship with your sibling and the family really was able to grow and prosper and just create that sense of belonging and identity? Can we go into that first? Oh, sure, I'd be happy to. ⁣ ⁣ 02:01 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ So my twin sister and I were adopted together through Catholic Charities and their policy was always to keep multiple birth siblings together. So right off the bat, my birth mom knew that if she had more than one child which was definitely something that ran in her family that her daughters or her kids would stay together, so that was important to her. One of the things that's interesting about being a twin, especially if you're adopted is one of the things that adoptees often wonder about is who do I look like, who do I take after? And so that sense of belonging is a big question for adoptees. From the very beginning I never had to look understand who I look like. I always looked like my sister. To be raised with a full sibling is a real blessing for any adopted person. So a lot of good things came out of being adopted with my sister. ⁣ ⁣ 03:12⁣ My parents also adopted a boy two years after my sister and I, and how often happens, they were able to have three biological children after all of us. So I grew up in this big Irish Catholic blended family of three adoptees and three biological kids. To my parents' credit, I don't think I could tell any difference, but how they treated any one of us. Everybody had the same rewards, the same punishments. They were pretty strict and they were very clear about how much they loved us and how much they wanted this family that they built through adoption and natural childbirth. ⁣ ⁣ 03:59⁣ So I waited until I was 48 years old to do any research about my adoption. It was closed. Closed means that the birth parents' identities are disguised or hidden, and it also allows adoptive parents to not have that co-parenting situation that sometimes happens with open adoption. But unfortunately, what it does is it doesn't allow an adoptee to have any sense of their identity, from where they came from, who they were before adoption was the plan made for them. ⁣ ⁣ 04:38⁣ So, even though I had this twin sister and I knew I belonged to her and I certainly felt belonging in my family, I had no idea. Was I really Catholic? Was I really Irish? What else did I not know? And then I had this breast biopsy at 48 and my husband insisted that I get at family history if I could. I have three daughters. All of that affected them, and so my first phone call was to my twin sister and it said you know, what do you think? And she said absolutely, I support you completely. It became my journey, my story, but she was involved every step of the way, every decision that we had to make. She and I talked about it. ⁣ ⁣ 05:29 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So that is a lot. That is a lot later in life to question your family history, knowing that you came from a nurturing, loving family, had a sibling who looked just like you that you can share that experience with, in addition to another sibling who was also adopted. Was there ever, even earlier in life, a desire to want to find out more about your birth mother and your lineage, your past, your DNA? We're doing so many of these DNA tests now. Did that exist? ⁣ ⁣ 06:04 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yes, that did exist and this is something that adoptees talk about a lot, that we have a lot of fantasies with lack of information. Like anybody, you kind of make up your own story in your head. You know, brene Brown talks about that a lot in her books the stories we make up in our heads to make us feel better about something that just happened. So my sister and I decided when we were teenagers our birth parents must have been teenagers and we decided that maybe he was the star football player and maybe she was the head cheerleader and that they, they were passionate and they wanted to go to college. And this just wasn't what you know. They wanted to do was get married and raise kids. So that appeased us for a while. There also was in the back of my mind and my sister's mind that, you know, maybe it was something else, maybe it was two were too many, maybe that was the reason why we were placed for adoption. So there were a lot of things to think about when you know that the gatekeepers are going to keep you from accessing everything. You just stuck it in a little drawer and every once in a while you take it out are going to keep you from accessing everything. You just stuff it in a little drawer and every once in a while you take it out and you look at it and then you put it back in. What ended up happening? Timing was everything with this. ⁣ ⁣ 07:37⁣ I had the breast biopsy. ⁣ ⁣ 07:39⁣ Turns out I didn't have breast cancer, but the threat that it might be in my family line meant I was going to full steam ahead. I was ready to go, my sister was ready to help with it, and the state of Illinois had changed their policy, their law about adoption, meaning that any adoptee over a certain age could access the original birth record. So I accessed my original birth record. Unfortunately, the search agency I turned it over to figured out that my birth mom had used an alias on the original birth record perfectly legal in 1959 to falsify a public record like that sounding to me, and also perfectly legal to not include the birth father's name. He didn't sign off on his parental rights, which is not something that happens today. ⁣ ⁣ 08:40⁣ So we were kind of stuck and at the same time that we're struggling with getting the search going, my adoptive mom was not happy with me. She really feared that she was going to be set aside as our mother and I had to work really hard and so did my, to prove to her that our bond was our bond. She had raised us, and that was a tricky thing. I'm battling health, I'm battling this search and I'm also having to be really careful with my adoptive mom. So there were a lot of issues at play. ⁣ ⁣ 09:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And I imagine that this could also bring, were a lot of issues at play, and I imagine that this could also bring up the thought of loss and grief and grief, before grief even happens. Your mom raised beautiful children and, while they might not be from her womb, there's kind of a spiritual womb that exists in families that are well-rounded and close and that can be a disconnection. So, having that conversation and her also knowing that there was another entity that was on Team Julie being your twin, I can only imagine how difficult that must have been for her. But my question is how did you have conversations with your brother about this as well? ⁣ ⁣ 10:04 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Oh, yes, definitely. ⁣ ⁣ 10:06 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Because here is another child in the family that was also adopted, and does it spark that curiosity for your brother as well to try to find his birth parents? ⁣ ⁣ 10:16 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ He was waiting and watching how my parents handled my sister and I going down this path when our search got rolling and I ended up getting involved with Catholic Charities because they had a social worker that did this kind of work. He came to every adoption support group meeting with me, paying attention, seeing how he was going to sort through this for himself. My sister and I definitely blazed the trail for him and by the time he got around to doing it, my parents realized this was going to be okay, the family was going to stay intact, that this was very important to all of us to understand who and where we came from and assimilate that into our personality. My mom did eventually come around. It is kind of a God wink moment, if you will, at the end of the book Twice a Daughter. ⁣ ⁣ 11:13⁣ I won't give everything away, but I do find a brother and a sister, a half brother and a half sister, so we share the same father. And when I do find my birth father, he doesn't want anything to do with my sister and I, but he does give me my medical history, which was what I was after, and he wouldn't comply with DNA analysis. So there was this question was he really the right guy and I really did feel like I needed DNA to know, because breast cancer ran in his family. My aunt had died of breast cancer before she was 40. So big breast cancer scary stuff. And my brother, my birth father, told my brother that you know, there's these two women. One of them is requesting all of this information and testing in and I'm not going to do it. And my brothers just picked up the phone and called me a cold call and, as we often do when we're talking with strangers, you know you're saying where did you go to school and how do you know? How do we, how would our paths have crossed ever? ⁣ ⁣ 12:26⁣ But came out that I knew his wife and that his wife and my family were intertwined. I won't give the whole secret away and because of that, because my adoptive parents and my adoptive family already knew my sister-in-law and her family, we all had probably met my brother and not known he was our brother. It fixed everything, Hilary. Instantly it was my mom realized oh, I know these people. This is great. Let's get together for family dinner. This is an amazing, beautiful moment. So the story, you know, it's ups and downs and it's one setback after another, but in the end there was this beautiful coming together of families that knew each other but didn't know they were biologically related. Do I ever get to meet my birth father? I don't he. He had a cardiac event and died before he changed his mind, so who knows if that would have ever happened. ⁣ ⁣ 13:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It sounds like it is a Godwink moment and so fortunate to be able to have that and have some sense of closure. But not everyone gets that. ⁣ ⁣ 13:56 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ No, you did mention your book. ⁣ ⁣ 13:59 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I want to mention that real quick. Julie has three books. The third one's coming out next year, but the book we're referring to is Twice a Daughter, A Search for Identity, Family and Belonging, and then your second book is Belonging Matters. Those are the conversations of adoption, family and kinship, more like essays, and we'll put all of these links in the podcast notes. But just to go back to that, this is a wonderful turnout. Sounds like a perfect movie where everybody works out like a Hallmark movie in a way. ⁣ ⁣ 14:29⁣ But it's not always like that, Because when you think about and I just know this personally, not from being an adoptee or adopting, but having friends who have and sometimes you don't find the parents, sometimes you find family members and they don't really want to have a connection with you. ⁣ ⁣ 14:48 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Oh, it definitely. At my birth, mom did not want anything to do with us either, so it was not an easy road for her as far as being found. ⁣ ⁣ 14:58 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Right, but when it comes to health, do you think that there are laws and rules that need to be in place? And if that's the case, how would that change adoption for those who would consider putting their child up for adoption but don't want to be found? ⁣ ⁣ 15:16 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ The trend now in adoption is open adoption, which means that an adoptive parent enters into an adoption plan with the birth parents and they establish between them what the contact is going to be. Is it going to be just a yearly phone conversation or cards and letters? So it is between the birth parents and the adoptive parents, so that piece is so much better. When it comes to adoption, closed adoptions really did go out of vogue after 1980. Unfortunately, to your point about laws and statutes those of us that were adopted before 1980 during closed adoption it is up to each individual state to decide what their statutes are and to this point Illinois was one of the first eight states that changed open records acts. New York has changed their laws. There's probably about 15 out of 50 states that allow people my age to access their original birth records and research their family medical history. ⁣ ⁣ 16:32⁣ Unfortunately, dna can help some of us. It can't help all of us because the database is only as good as the people that subscribe to it. For example, my half-brother. That family never would have signed up for DNA. They don't want their specimens anywhere, so I would not have been able to find them through DNA. ⁣ ⁣ 17:01⁣ But some adoptees do the thing about birth parents and I want to emphasize the loss because you brought that up earlier. Loss is prevalent in the whole adoption triad. Adoptive parents most of them choose adoption as the way to build a family because they have infertility. So there's this insecurity about being able to have a biological child, a birth parents, birth mothers generally. It's a searing loss for them to have this situation present themselves where they're not going to parent their child and adoptees lose a sense of their family and their identity. ⁣ ⁣ 17:50⁣ One of the things that happened as a result of my search and my birth mom telling my sister and I I don't want anything to do with these girls I wasn't expecting that, Hilary, I thought I would be the lost girl found that she was waiting for me to find her. In fact, she didn't want to be found. She feared Her family had not. She'd never told her family. She feared my birth father coming back into her life. ⁣ ⁣ 18:22⁣ There was a lot of fear about that and I turned to Catholic Charities and got involved with their post adoption support group and it was one of the most meaningful things that came out of that adoption search because I came to understand the heartache that a birth mother goes through in coming to the decisions that they make and they work just as hard as adoptees do to make contact with their birth child sometimes with no success, sometimes with success and the adoptive parents. My adoptive mom was a little unusual in her lack of support because there were adoptive parents in our group that were supporting their child to find access to information that was important to them. It's a complicated situation for everybody and the people that are outside of the adoption world. I think sometimes there's some preconceived ideas about it. Adoptees like me present themselves until my middle age as being well-adjusted, and I write an essay about that in Belonging Matters. I did feel well-adjusted until I wasn't well-adjusted. I wanted that. ⁣ ⁣ 19:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ When was that? ⁣ ⁣ 19:49 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Well, I needed to know this family history and I couldn't have it, and it made me mad, and I think that you know there are a lot of angry adoptees out there. I think maybe that's some of the voices that people hear adoptees that aren't happy about their situation or they can't find, um, their relatives, um. But I felt like the, the support group that I I'm still involved in that, by the way, it's been 15 years, um, I think when you start listening to everybody else's perspective and you realize this isn't just about you, there's other things at play here. I think it allows us not only to heal personally but to have empathy for the other members in the triangle. ⁣ ⁣ 20:44 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, it's a sense of community, knowing that you're not alone, even if your story is different. It's giving you a sense of community and a collective of those who are going through something with that similar attachment. ⁣ ⁣ 20:57 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yes, exactly. ⁣ ⁣ 20:59 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So that anytime we can have a support and a community, and I imagine sometimes that's even a community of people who aren't connected to your story personally. Right, so that, and it's beautiful that you're still involved with that that the thought that is coming up to me is you were 48 when this awareness of I need to make some decisions and get some answers came to pass. But were there moments earlier where you really felt that pull? I mean, you mentioned making up the stories with your sister. Have you approached your parents, your adopted parents, prior to look into this earlier? ⁣ ⁣ 21:45⁣ And were you shut down? Were you supported? ⁣ ⁣ 21:55 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ you shut down? Were you supported? Really good question. So when I always knew that I was adopted. So that was a conversation my parents must have had with us when we were three or four or something, but every once in a while, around our birthday, they would sit us down in the living room and we'd have the adoption talk and they'd ask us you know, is there anything we can help you with? If you want to research your adoption, we'll help you, okay? So that conversation happened a handful of times when I was growing up. So my mother's reaction to me deciding to eventually search at 48 came out of nowhere and, as we talked about earlier, I know now that it came out of fear. She was worried that this woman was going to be a threat to her and in talking with the social worker about her reaction, she said you know, this is the day that she always feared would happen. Yeah, and she put it out of her mind. ⁣ ⁣ 23:00⁣ And all of a sudden, here it is, it's happening, and she didn't show her best self. Did she come around? Yes, she came around. Self Did she come around? Yes, she came around. But it was, you know, a tricky mother-daughter conflict. You know, we were adults, so we did work our best at just re-encouraging everyone that the love was there. ⁣ ⁣ 23:28 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I imagine that is a conversation that parents who have adopted children have with themselves quite regularly, because you especially when you mentioned the fact that there are different reasons why people adopt many times it might be because they can't have their own children and when you finally have that moment, you're like holding your breath, that first year especially, you know, will anything change? Is this going to become an adoption? If it started in foster care, then adoption so many different avenues that people can take and then, as the child gets older, they become so much a part of you. If it is that well-balanced family environment, you stop thinking about those things, but it's still there and there's that thought of loss before a loss even exists, right, so the brain tends to go there. We go to the negative. It's how we keep ourselves alive. So creating that nurturing reminder to your mom and letting her know that it's still something I'm sure she thought about every day in some way, you know. So what would be your advice? And before we even go there, I just want to mention again, if you did miss it the first time Julie is an adoptee. ⁣ ⁣ 24:48⁣ She's also a twin and she pursued finding her, adopted, her birth mother at 48 years old due to a potential health issue which we're happy that you're not dealing with. But then you have to think about your own family, like your children. You said you're a mother of three daughters, and then where do we go from there? So Julie has two wonderful books that are out very different and they kind of build on each other. I imagine you have Twice a Daughter A Search for Identity, family and Belonging, and then Belonging Matters Conversations on Adoption, family and Kinship, which is more of the essays, and then a new book coming out, which is another memoir in 2025, which is Twice the Family a memoir of love, loss and sisterhood. Really beautiful. Build on these three areas in your life, like, basically it's it's three stages in your life and building on that, was it, was it ever a thought, to become an author? Did you think about that? ⁣ ⁣ 25:50 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ I have always been a writer but a journaler, so more of a private writing experience. So when Twice a Daughter, the story of the adoption search was unfolding, I was keeping copious notes with my journals and the more I told people the story of what was happening. And you know, I can't find my birth mother. Now I found my birth mother and she doesn't want to know us and my mom doesn't want to help me with this and the health stuff was going on whole saga which was five years from beginning to end. People would say, gosh, I hope you're going to write a book about this. And I thought, wow, I wonder if I should. And so I started taking writing classes at the University of Chicago in downtown Chicago, and so the book came together in 2021. And right right after COVID. I mean, I was writing the book during COVID. ⁣ ⁣ 26:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Great time to write. ⁣ ⁣ 26:53 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yeah, what's interesting about having written the story and one of the things I like to speak to is this is my story, yes, but every struggle that I went through in that process is the same thing that other adoptees go through. They struggle with support from their adoptive family. They struggle with connection to make with their birth parents, to make with their birth parents. Some adoptees find siblings and in the communities that I'm involved in, most of us have better relationships with our siblings the siblings that we find than we do with our birth parents, because they don't have any skin in the game. They don't have any baggage to bring to the relationship. They're excited. They have two new siblings that they didn't even know that they had and there are a lot of similarities and it's been a lot of fun getting to know my new brother and sister, although my brother always says I am not your new brother, I have always been your brother, so I find that very sweet. I've also one of the things that I've written essays about is getting to know beyond this immediate circle. ⁣ ⁣ 28:15⁣ My birth mom didn't want to tell her family. She wanted to keep us a secret. Her family, she wanted to keep us a secret, and this whole theme of secret keeping is, and shame is, at the very core of adoption from the closed adoption era. She had a hard time letting people know, because she had taken on society's shame and blame, viewed herself as a sinner, that she'd had this relationship outside of marriage and he wouldn't marry her, and it was something that she kept inside her identity. She didn't marry until she was in the late 40s. I don't have any other siblings from her, and so it has never been easy for her to introduce us to other people, and some of the things that she did to my sister and I not introducing us to family members and not inviting us to family reunions is foreign to me. My family that I grew up in was very loving. We had a lot of family gatherings, family reunions, big parties. ⁣ ⁣ 29:30⁣ I couldn't understand my birth mother's attitude about including my sister and I, and I have finally come to the place I talk about healing that. I realize it's not my problem, it's her problem. I can't fix her. I would love for her to be fixed so that she could find joy in this relationship with her two daughters that she never could claim. I mean, think about how hard that is on Mother's Day to pretend that you are not a mother, so I have a lot of empathy for her and her situation. That was not easy to come to. A lot of self-work on that front. I also have forgiveness for my birth father. He chose not to meet us. ⁣ ⁣ 30:21 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That was my first question. ⁣ ⁣ 30:22 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that, because yeah, he chose not to meet my sister and I, and that situation is complicated by a second marriage or whatever. I had a great dad growing up. My adoptive father was just amazing, everyone's favorite, and so I don't feel cheated. There is one thing I do feel cheated about. ⁣ ⁣ 30:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ What's that? ⁣ ⁣ 30:46 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ I found out that my sister and I are strongly Native American on both sides of my biological families. I was deprived of knowing that, identifying with a culture that was mine to know my adoptive parents it's not their fault, they were not given any of that information, so I didn't find out about this culture that I belonged to until I was in my 50s and it's a little late then. Also, because my birth father's name is not on my original birth record means that I can't claim to be a Chippewa, so denied on many fronts, and so I'm still figuring that out. Here I am 65 and I'm still trying to figure out. How do I feel about this identity piece? I want to belong in that culture, I want to understand it, but I am denied access. ⁣ ⁣ 31:53 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And I imagine that goes back to the feelings associated with ancestral and generational trauma. You never connected to it knowingly, but when? And this I think this goes back to the DNA testing, all these DNA testings that we're finding out about now and using, and people are finding families that exist all over the world. Being able to attach yourself to a lineage, a culture, a heritage that you had no clue about and wanting to learn more about it, but then for you not being able to actually claim it is, in some ways, another loss. ⁣ ⁣ 32:37 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Definitely is. ⁣ ⁣ 32:38 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, yeah. So do you still feel a connection to it, to where you want to explore, learning about it, even if you can't claim it? ⁣ ⁣ 32:53 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Absolutely. I have some trips planned to northern Minnesota to see where my birth father is from Minnesota, to see where my birth father's from. He grew up very poor on the outskirts of the Chippewa Reservation in northern Minnesota, and so I do have plans to visit those places. I did extensive genealogy and have a lot of family history that I find fascinating, and so do my children, which is kind of fun. Three of my kids played college sports and that was kind of a joke in my family because I didn't have access to where did that come from, and so we never really knew. And then we found out that our birth father played college football, and so some of these things have fallen into place, made sense. ⁣ ⁣ 33:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It really is putting together a puzzle. Yeah, yeah, it really is. And how beautiful it is that you're experiencing all these things with now, your own children and your sister and family members that are curious. It's a curiosity, you know, but you know, with these traumas, as I often say and you mentioned as well, you find the healing there's a little bit of humor there's always you're confronted with your health turns into those triumphant moments, you know, and your mess is your message, basically. So what is next for Julie, in addition to the book that you have coming out, what is it that you are exploring now, in this stage of your life, with all of this beautiful knowledge? ⁣ ⁣ 34:35 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ One of the things I really like to do is write short essays. For example, I had I was on vacation. I came back I was dreading going out to the mailbox and getting the mail and paying the bills and doing all that and so reluctantly went out there and the mail hadn't come yet. I didn't realize that. But inside my mailbox was a little card. A child had drawn it and a message inside and it said you won the mailbox project, love Layla. ⁣ ⁣ 35:12⁣ So I just wrote an essay about this and it just caught me at the right moment. Here was an innocent child doing a random act of kindness, stuffed a little note in my mailbox and I came upon it right when I needed to. So that another little God wink moment. Going back to my comment earlier, I love finding these quirky little moments in life and building them out and writing a story about it. I write often about my grandsons and some of the fun, cute little stuff that they do. In fact I wrote an essay last fall that is in belonging matters, and I just recently found out it won a couple of different awards. ⁣ ⁣ 36:00⁣ So I think I think I'm done writing memoir, but I think I'm not done being a storyteller. ⁣ ⁣ 36:09 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's great, yeah, we. Our stories are so much a part of our healing you know, and hopefully they'll touch, move and inspire someone else, right? What is it Brene says one day, your story will be somebody else's survival guide. ⁣ ⁣ 36:22 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yes, oh yeah. So well said Something like that. ⁣ ⁣ 36:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to have a little fun with you for a moment before we close. Sure, I've been writing down some words that you've said and what I do is a rapid fire, which is basically word association. I'm going to throw out a word that you said and you just come back as fast as you can with one word that associates with that one. What comes to mind first. Okay, Okay. All right, here we go. Ad Self Heritage. ⁣ ⁣ 37:05 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Ancestry, family, belonging Community, neighbors. Author Writer Loss. Writer Loss. ⁣ ⁣ 37:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Grief DNA. ⁣ ⁣ 37:30 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Biology Support Community. ⁣   37:39 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Beautiful and we do need community. We really do, and this big part of what this show is about is bringing people together, you know, to find those trauma, to triumph moments and know that even if their stories are different, there's a connection in some way. So I appreciate you sharing your story and do you have any final thoughts that you want to share with listeners and those who tune in? ⁣ ⁣ 38:10 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ One thing I like to say to people is if you are not in the adoption community, but you know somebody that's touched by adoption, sit back and listen to what they have to say, or their viewpoint or their hurt, because so often we jump in and we offer an opinion or we have a perspective that we're not willing to change without really listening to somebody and I think this follows through with other hot topics. It doesn't have to be adoption. If we take the time to listen, time to listen and have empathy for the speaker, I think that we have the potential to invoke change in our societies and our communities, but we have to be willing to do that, to be willing to listen. ⁣ ⁣ 38:54 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's beautiful, always coming from that place of compassion and empathy. It doesn't have to be our story, but that's what connects us. Thank you for sharing that. That's beautiful. We will share all the information on your books, julie McGue. Three books In 2025, we'll see three out there. Maybe even more with all these essays you're writing. Who knows? But Twice a Daughter A Search for Identity, family and Belonging, belonging Matters, conversations on Adoption, family and Kinship. And in 2025, twice a Family A Memoir of Love, loss and Sisterhood, and all of that will be in the podcast notes. I highly recommend sharing this, taking time to read these stories and see what your connection is and the empathy that you might have to this conversation, julie, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. ⁣ ⁣ 39:42 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Thanks, Hilary. Thanks for your thoughtful questions and really easy conversation. ⁣ ⁣ 39:52 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I appreciate it, my pleasure. All right, my friends, if this conversation with Julie McGue inspired you in any way, like it did me, consider leaving a rating and a review wherever you're tuning in. It will help others find this podcast when you do that, and they might be the ones that really need to connect to the story. So do yourself a favor and do us a favor, and do others a favor and pay it forward. And if you want to connect with Julie personally, learn more about her stories or her books, I've shared all that information in the notes of this podcast. That includes her two books that are out right now Twice a Daughter A Search for Identity, family and Belonging and Belonging Matters, which are conversations on adoption, family and kinship, and, of course, her soon-to-be-released book in 2025, which is Twice a Family, which is a memoir of love, loss, sisterhood. That comes out in February. ⁣ ⁣ 40:41⁣ And, yes, you can connect with me and learn more about how you can turn your traumas into triumphs, how you can hug it out with Havening with me as your guide, and you can also join us for Havening happy hours every month or any other event that I might be hosting. You can find that information on how to attend those events to connect with me. In the notes of this podcast as well, there's links for everything you need. HIListically Speaking is edited by 2 Market Media with music by Lipbone Redding and tuned into by you. So thank you for returning week after week and being part of the process, and never forget, no matter your journey, you do belong and your story does matter. I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week. Be well. ⁣ ⁣

Brené Brown is a bestselling author and social scientist known for her work on complex emotions like shame and vulnerability. She opens up to Maya about the evolution of some of her most important identities: big sister, recovering perfectionist, and reluctant public figure. She also shares how COVID affected her marriage, her struggles with social media, and how she's redefining ambition.  If you liked this episode, check out Maya on Brene's podcast Dare to Lead.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On this episode I have the pleasure of speaking with Kelly Campbell who is a trauma-informed leadership coach, speaker, facilitator, writer, and author. She also leads Consciousness Leaders—the world's most diverse and equitable speakers' agency. Kelly grew up in a home that, as she describes it, was more challenging than most. She tells us that even though she strived to be the perfect daughter by excelling at academics, sports, and other endeavors, she did not feel loved and, in fact, felt that she was “unlovable”. She will take us on her journey of learning how to accept the traumatic issues she faced and eventually learned how not only to articulate what happened to her, but also how she learned to recognize that she could learn to love herself.   Today, among other things, Kelly coaches leaders on how to better their lives by recognizing the traumas they face and have faced. As she tells us, most all of us have faced traumas whether we choose to recognize it or not. We learn the value of addressing issues and becoming better leaders and people at home, at work and throughout our entire life.   About the Guest:   Kelly L. Campbell (they/she) inspires revelation and responsibility in leaders across the globe. As a trauma-informed leadership coach, speaker, facilitator, writer, and author, they empower self-aware visionaries to correlate their past wounds to their leadership style, transforming the way they lead, live, and love. Her debut book, Heal to Lead: Revolutionizing Leadership through Trauma Healing (Wiley) will be released in April 2024.   They write for Entrepreneur, have written for Forbes, and offer exclusive content to their Substack community, “The New TLC: Trauma, Leadership, and Consciousness.” Early in their career, Kelly was the founder and CEO of a cause marketing agency and sold it in 2016, which led her to advise Fortune 50 corporations, non-profits, government organizations, and marketing and advertising agencies. They have hosted two top-rated podcasts since 2006—one on holistic health and wellness and the other on conscious leadership for marketing and advertising agency leaders.   A long-time conservationist, Kelly was trained by Al Gore as a Climate Reality Leader in 2017. Most recently, they became certified as a Reiki Level III Practitioner. Kelly's vision is to empower more than half of humanity to heal its childhood trauma so that we may reimagine and rebuild the world together.   ** ** Ways to connect with Kelly:   Book Pre-Order: https://klcampbell.com/heal-to-lead-book/  Website: https://klcampbell.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kelly.l.campbell  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellylcampbell/  Substack: https://kellylcampbell.substack.com/  Leadership Quiz: https://klcampbell.com/leadership/  Healing Resources: https://myhealingmenu.com       About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Note: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi, everyone, welcome to unstoppable mindset wherever you happen to be in the world. We're glad you're here. Today we get to have a conversation with Kelly Campbell. And I got to tell you a little bit about my history with Kelly, there is a history isn't that something anyway, I last year was beginning to seek out speaking opportunities and discovered Kelly's consciousness leaders, speaker's bureau and technology and company that helped speakers find opportunities and wrote to her, and along the way learned from her executive assistant that excessively had sponsored her podcast in 2022. And of course, AccessiBe is the the organization behind what we do here. So there was some great synergy and we well, she agreed to represent us and in the speaking world. And also, of course, I had to say, Kelly, you got to come on the podcast, and it only took six months to get around. But here it is. And Kelly, we're really glad you're on unstoppable mindset after that story. And thanks very much for being here.   Kelly Campbell ** 02:30 Michael, it is my absolute pleasure. Yeah, synergy is the word there was so much synergy when we first met. So I'm glad to be working together in lots of different ways.   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 Yeah, you gotta keep that going. It'll be a lot of fun. Well, tell us a little bit about kind of the early Kelly growing up and all that sort   Michael Hingson ** 02:45 of stuff. Oh, the early Kelly,   Michael Hingson ** 02:48 I know it doesn't that make it fun?   Kelly Campbell ** 02:49 Well, you know, listen, none of us had perfect childhoods. Mine was just a little more imperfect than most. And so, you know, the way that I grew up, I, I, you know, grew up with a mother who had basically, comorbidity conditions of borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. And I didn't know any of those words when I was a kid, right. And my dad ended up leaving, they kind of got an unofficially separated, I guess you call it when I was about nine. And so he was sort of my protector in the house. And so when he left, it was like my heartbeat. hypervigilance went on overdrive. And I think for many, many years, I would say even decades, it took me a long time to figure out how to how to get out of that nervous system dysregulation. And again, I don't have any of these words or any of this understanding for a very long time. So   Michael Hingson ** 03:54 that's usually what you know what happens kids know something's going on, but can't really describe it or articulate it.   Kelly Campbell ** 04:03 Yeah, yeah. So I knew something was off. I knew I had to protect myself, and in some ways, and I think I did a pretty good job of that. But what I also came to understand was the ways in which I was in the world, meaning, you know, in academics or in my social settings in my athletic career, I was, you know, trying to become this perfect persona, you know, in every single way. And it was really at the heart of it. It was I didn't understand that there was a disconnect between her ability to love me, I thought it was if I just did this thing more perfectly if I just got these straight A's and was captain of all these sports teams and got a full ride to college and she wouldn't be proud and she would she would love me. And she didn't have the tools to do that. But so I took that to mean that I was unlovable. All right. So I know the title of your podcast is unstoppable, unstoppable mindset, but I felt unlovable. And so I didn't feel very unstoppable. And so creating, you know, I tried a little dip of the toe in the water of corporate America right after college and that that didn't work for me. Immediately I created, you know, an organization, I started a digital marketing agency that focused on nonprofits and foundations and social impact initiatives. I was an avid conservationist and really was an advocate for the environment, and you know, all the things that we can do ourselves. And so I took all of that passion and all of that and created this agency. And so I had this digital marketing agency for about 14 years, I ended up selling it in 2016. And, you know, yeah, that was that was about eight years ago. And now I've been a consultant to Facebook and NASA. I have been, essentially a trauma informed leadership coach for the last few years. And I get to work with leaders in all different sectors on really what I did, which was correlating their childhood trauma, with their leadership style, the way that they show up in leadership leadership position today.   Michael Hingson ** 06:33 Well, you know, a question that comes to mind is, okay, so you had the situation that you had as a child, and you worked really hard to be loved. And as you pointed out, your mother didn't have the tools? Well, so before I ask the question, I'm really thinking of, did that ever change? Has it ever changed with her? Or is it kind of just No, you know, she,   Kelly Campbell ** 06:57 she said, I write about this in the book, which I know will touch upon, she sort of, I'll call it she opted out of my life when I was about four. And so I have not had any contact with her in 20 years.   Michael Hingson ** 07:11 Okay, so the question that I really was thinking of is, so all of that happened. But you I gather really did Excel, and you were the captain of teams, you've got great grades and so on. So as you look back on an even though what occurred, did happen? Do you feel that you feel positive? Or do you feel that all that was, in a sense, now worth it now that you can look back on it?   Kelly Campbell ** 07:39 I think everything was worth it. I think, you know, I have a very different mindset about what it was, I think I live to be really honest, I lived for many years in the State of victimization or victimhood. And oh, you know, these things happen to me, right were imposed upon me. And I think once the, you know, I started doing the deeper inner work, that mindset started to shift. And it was like, I, I have agency, I didn't just start an agency, I actually have agency to figure out how I want to live the rest of my life. And this is not it. This is not it.   Michael Hingson ** 08:16 Yeah. And that's what I was, was getting to is that your mindset shifted? And I'm assuming that you no longer feel that you're unlovable. Oh,   Kelly Campbell ** 08:27 not at all. There you go. But I will say the difference is that not it wasn't just about my mother, right? Yeah, it was any external validation or getting that, you know, I am lovable because so and so feels this way about me or cares about me or loves right? It that the need for that has fallen away over all of these years of doing this work. And I understand now that I am lovable because I love me, right? So the only thing that matters, but it takes people and it sounds so simple, Michael, but it takes a very, very long time, most of us until mid life to figure that out. And some of us don't ever figure it out. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 09:06 Or we figure it out even much later. And it's so unfortunate that that we have, well, we don't have the tools to figure out some of those things a lot earlier. And of course, as a child as a kid. It's it's hard to associate that and so you look to your parents, you look up to your parents, and you talked about what your father did for you and what your mother didn't do for you. But it's taken a long time to really gain the rest of the tools necessary to put a better perspective on all that. You   Kelly Campbell ** 09:41 got it. You got it. Yeah. And you know, I do have a close relationship with my father. I would love an even closer relationship with him. You know, he also and I do write about this in the book. He had his own, you know, tumultuous upbringing with physical abuse from his stepfather. Other, and I'm not sure that he ever really has integrated that or addressed that. And so I think that there's a little bit of, you know, I don't know, just a lack of understanding that there is a closeness that could happen, there's a depth to relationship that could happen if he were to go ahead and break through those things. However, as much as I want that, for him, that is not my responsibility as a child. It's, it's really up to him. And that's the thing, it's up to each one of us to determine the way that my life is going, the relate the quality of the relationships that I have, are not everything that I think that they could be, or that I hope that they could be. And so now I have to look inward and say, you know, where is my contribution to that? And how do I want that to change? How, how committed Am I to helping those changes be brought about? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 10:58 and as I was, was thinking in going to say, the fact is that the journey continues, and so you're going to even learn more as you go forward, which can only help. That's right. It's a matter of looking for it. And most of us don't take a lot of time to be introspective and look at what we do or why we do what we do and how we do it. I'm a strong advocate for people should take time at the end of every day looking at what happened that day. And I never like to view things as a failure. I can view things as well, this didn't work. So what do I learn from that? Because I have to teach me as to how to deal with it. But the bottom line is that we, we should really take time to look at what didn't work and what worked and how can we make it even better? And what does that mean for our lives. And we mostly don't do that, oh, I don't have the time, I've got to get right to sleep, because I gotta get up in the morning. And we miss such golden opportunities to start to think about that. Yeah,   Kelly Campbell ** 11:59 yeah. And that could come in a variety of different ways, right? Are the cerebral resources that are available to us through guided meditations and podcasts and books that we might listen to or read, there are so many ways to enter this realm, you know, to just get started to just, I don't know, really get curious and start to understand that there are all of these resources available to us. And all we have to do is just pull the thread or lean into what feels resonant for us.   Michael Hingson ** 12:36 Right? Yeah, and, and then follow through on it,   Kelly Campbell ** 12:39 and then follow through on it, because it's not just about the cerebral, right, we're talking about integrating trauma, really at the heart of this. And so you can't think your way out of a feeling that is in your body and literally in your you know, stuck in your sort of your nervous system and your fascia and, you know, in your, in your physical body. So the combination of the cerebral, the mindset work, the mindfulness, and the somatic work, you know, the movement, the emotional release, there are lots and lots of healing modalities, trauma integration modalities available to us. Most people think of therapy. And that's it. That therapy is one, one out of literally millions of modalities that are available to us. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 13:27 and the other thing about therapy is people think, Oh, I'll go to therapy. And I'll get all the answers because the therapist will give me the answers. And therapists do help give you answers. And coaches help guide you to answers. But still, none of those matter if you don't do something about it once you are given opportunities or discover opportunities.   Kelly Campbell ** 13:49 Yeah, yeah. And there are a lot of people who said, Yeah, I'm doing the work, quote, unquote, I've been in therapy for 15 years, like I was, and you know, therapy is wonderful, especially if you haven't talked to anyone before about what is going on in your life and what's on your heart and things that are, you know, maybe behaviors that you're not happy with. That's a wonderful thing. Staying in that relationship, though, and continuously just talking about it, sort of, in in many cases, I won't say all cases, because there are lots of therapists who specialize in different things. But in many cases, a lot of people stay stuck in repetitive patterns. You know, and if if you really to your point, if you want to make the change, it is about committing and doing things different through other types of modalities, and some of those modalities don't rely on another person. Right. Those are things that you're doing yourself. So yeah, there's there's a lot and no healing journey looks the same. It's not linear, you know?   Michael Hingson ** 14:57 Yeah, but it isn't for any of us and you may You try something and it doesn't really work or seem to work for you. And so you don't give up, you need to try something else until you find something that works. And you also have to look at what it is you're trying to achieve and what it is that you're trying to accomplish.   Kelly Campbell ** 15:13 That's right. That's right. Because just like anything, you have to set a goal or or not even a goal so much as maybe there's some little shift. Maybe the goal is I want to feel less anxious. Maybe the goal is I want to feel more comfortable in my skin in my body. Maybe, you know, so they're not I think goal is maybe not the best word, but they are things that you are interested in changing. Modifying.   Michael Hingson ** 15:43 Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So what is trauma? We we it's a word we hear all the time, what what really is it, we   Kelly Campbell ** 15:54 hear the word trauma every single day. Whether we're talking to a friend or scrolling on Instagram, or something like that, it has become a pretty, I don't know, just like a word of the year, I think it probably will be the word of the year for 2024. Trauma, it is derived from the Greek word for which means wound, right. But what we're talking about here is beyond that, we're not talking necessarily about physical wounds, although that could be trauma, or talking about unintegrated information. So not the events that have happened to you at some point in your life, whether that's in childhood or older, not the events themselves, but what happens inside your body because of that event, or events or prolonged scenario, right. So it could be a one time event that you experience, but what your body and your mind and your psyche are remembering in your tissues. Because it's not memory, it's Think of it like a body sensation, right? A something that is triggered in your nervous system that says this was an unsafe thing, or this was an experience that I do not want to experience again. So now I'm going to be hyper vigilant to make sure that I protect myself from not experiencing that again, right. So I say, I specify that it's not the event, not only because we know that from, you know, experts like Dr. Gabor Ma Tei and Bessel Vander Kolk. But we know that if you and I experienced the same event, it may not have been traumatic for you. And it may have been traumatic for me, right? So there's a subjectivity to this stuff. It's a lot of nuance. But at the end of the day, it's a situation where we have been feeling overwhelmed and unable to cope with a stressor. Right, and that stressor, we don't have to determine whether that is big T trauma, small t trauma, because again, there's subjectivity to it just an overwhelm, and overwhelm, and an inability to integrate the information.   Michael Hingson ** 18:19 So how does trauma intersect or become involved in dealing with leadership? What does it mean in the context of leadership?   Kelly Campbell ** 18:28 Well, I mean, leaders are humans, right? So we can't pretend that once we stepped into a leadership role, if we put a suit on or, you know, some other expression of leadership, quote, unquote, that all of the trauma and all of those experiences and all of the maladaptive behaviors that we have because of it, that they just fall away, right, we can't pretend that that happens. That doesn't happen. Because we're, we're the same person internally, whether we are showing up at work, or we're with our family, or we are at home. We just wear masks, because we don't think that we will be seen as competent. If we bring our true selves, our authentic selves, our genuine selves, the real us into those scenarios. So, you know, this is this is a huge passion of mine and has become become really my life's work is this integral, this intersection between trauma and leadership? Because no one is talking about these things. And we yet we are very aware of them. They are in our faces all the time, right in our political leaders, in our corporate leaders. We see on the news, the Elon Musk's of the world and all of these other people who clearly we know in some way, shape or form that there's something off quote unquote about them. Really the These are wounded humans, right? Elon Musk has been very vocal about some of the things that he's experienced in childhood, at, you know, really in relationship to his father and some of the abuse that he endured through his peers when he was younger. So there was a feeling of powerlessness. And I just use this example, because there are a lot of people who are familiar with him, and is the innovation in which he leads. But a lot of people are not familiar with how actually terrible he is, as a people leader. And you know, a lot of that is stems from childhood trauma, where he felt powerless, he is now projecting that I will never feel that powerless again, I will be the richest and most powerful man in the world. He said that when he was eight years old, and boy, has that come true.   Michael Hingson ** 20:58 Yeah. The other side of it, though, is that if he did take a different tact in terms of how he dealt with people, how much I hate to use the word but more powerful, or more influential, he would really be? Well,   Kelly Campbell ** 21:15 I hear that. And I would just build on that to say, how much more positive impact could he make? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 21:24 that's why I changed it from powerful to influential because, yeah, I think that's more relevant, having a more powerful impact. We'll look at Steve Jobs. And I don't know as much about Steve Jobs. A lot of people were very loyal to him in the company. And he did a lot. And I just keep thinking, if he had lived 10 more years, what would it have been like in the world? Yeah.   Kelly Campbell ** 21:48 Yeah. It's a good question. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 21:51 And it's, it's one of those, well, we're not gonna get that answer. So we'll just have to not worry about it, I guess, or or we can think about it. But how do we all move forward is really the issue. But you know, a question that I love to ask. We've been talking about leadership a little bit. What is a leader?   Kelly Campbell ** 22:10 Hmm, that's a great cry. No, it's   Michael Hingson ** 22:13 a fun question. I love to get different answers. And you know, there's not necessarily a real right answer, but it's a fair question.   Kelly Campbell ** 22:20 Yeah. It is a fair question. I love this question. My favorite definition of a leader, and I'll paraphrase this, it's not mine. It's comes from Brene. Brown, it's really, you know, someone who sees the potential in other people, and has the courage to develop that potential. Yeah. It feels to me like, you know, what we thought about or what we understood as leadership over the last 200 years is not what we actually would like to think of as leadership. Right. It's not an authoritarian, it's not someone who has all the answers and leads us into battle. And you know, all of that. It is someone who is there to create more leaders, not more followers of them. You are not going to get that answer from a lot of people. But that's what I believe. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 23:17 And I think that the definition is a great one. And would that more people would see it, because bosses are not by any definition, necessarily leaders at all? Not at   Kelly Campbell ** 23:29 all. Not at all. They're just wounded children in a way, if you think about it, right. I mean, think about trauma, what its impact is you asked me before, what is its impact on leadership? If we have a traumatic experience, right, we experienced trauma at let's say, nine years old, we are ultimately stunted at nine years old if we don't integrate that experience. So we have a lot of nine year olds, running companies. I was one of them, which is why I can say that, you know, the day they the introduction of the book is this woman had asked me it was consultant that I had hired. And she said, What was the I want you to close your eyes? And what was the first moment that you remember stepping into a leadership role? And the introduction of the book became, you know, or was born out of the answer to that question? And the answer was, I literally thought of the day that my I was nine years old, sitting in the back seat of my family car, a Crown Victoria, I'll never forget it. And my brother, who's about a year younger than me, was sitting next to me and my mother was taking us to the movie theater. But before we went into the movie theater, she turned around and said, Oh, I just want to let your kids know. Your father is not going to be living with us anymore. And this was the moment that I remembered when this woman asked me what was the first moment you you remember stepping into a leadership role? Because I As blown out as I was by this news, and scared and confused and had all these questions and no support, I, in that moment turned to my brother. Right and put my hand on his back. And for me, it was supporting him and comforting him, and sort of letting him know that he was not alone in this. Right. And it's a weird memory to come up for that kind of question. But for a long time prior to me doing any of this healing work and trauma integration work on myself, I was that nine year old kid running that company. So, you know, to me, it's like, do we want more nine year olds running companies? Or do we want centered, fully embodied healing actively healing humans running companies and organizations? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 25:55 And you, you've evolved from being that nine year old child along the way, which is, of course, a great thing. Yeah. Which is, which is what you needed to do? Yeah.   Kelly Campbell ** 26:07 It's taken a lot of work. And that's the thing, this is a lifelong commitment. Right? This isn't a single Ayahuasca retreat, or just therapy for a few years. That's not what this is about. This is a lifelong commitment to, you know, really understanding who you are, what behaviors you would like to change, how you want to show up in the world. How you want to lead in whatever way that means whether that's in your your family system, at work, in your social group, maybe you have a religious affiliation, leadership comes in all different flavors and sizes, right? But it's figuring that out. And then understanding as part of that healing journey in that process. What you are here to contribute in the world, because this isn't about you. You, the more you learn about yourself, the less your ego is online, which is kind of a interesting oxymoron there. But yeah, it's more about what you what is your purpose? What are you here to contribute in the world? Because you understand through the healing journey that this is so much bigger than you so much bigger?   Michael Hingson ** 27:21 So following up on that and kind of continuing in since healing is a lifelong commitment. What's in it for leaders? Well, since we always seem to want to do things our way, so what's in it for me? What's in it? For me? Yeah,   Kelly Campbell ** 27:38 well, I will answer the question. But my initial reaction as a trauma informed leadership coach is think about, you know, if there's a leader who has that sort of that question, right? They're sort of being provocative. Well, what's in it for me? Why should I do any of this healing stuff? It sounds terrible takes a lifetime. You know, it's it has nothing to do with my legacy? Well, my question to that person would be well think about what your life is like right now. And if we were to fast forward five years from now, and life is exactly the same way you're feeling the level of overwhelm anxiety, you're biting at people that you don't even know, maybe there's like, some anger going on in your body, you tend to micromanage people, your relationships aren't exactly what you would love them to be. If we fast forward five years from now, and life was exactly like that, would you be okay with that? Right. And really, when we're getting real, is this current thing called life working for you? As is? Yeah, that would be my question. But I like to, I like to stoke the fire a little bit. But what's in it for people is some of the things that I alluded to better, closer, deeper, more meaningful relationships, not just that work, not just that home, not just with friends, I'm talking about all of them, because you will show up differently, right. If you own an organization or are in leadership of an organization, a workplace, the bottom line will actually see the impact of this in a positive way. Because the people who you are leading will trust you more, will respect you more will be more loyal. So you'll have less employee attrition, maybe even less client attrition or customer attrition, right? People want to follow and emulate those who have, you know, aligned values. I mean, access to be as a great example of that, right? There's so much in it. And it's not just about the business or just about the personal it's everything. You're also probably going to find that you develop a passion or reignite or rekindle a passion for some of the things that you were really excited about when you were a kid, maybe you love loved nature. Maybe you love to play an instrument, whatever, whatever the thing was, there's more joy and more passion and more fulfillment in your life by doing this work. I don't know, you know, that sounds like no big deal to me, you know, it's just life changing. There's so much available to us. And it's only possible once we do this work, well.   Michael Hingson ** 30:30 While I was in college, I did radio and loved it. I was in radio, the campus for six and a half years and had a lot of fun doing it and, and never thought I'd be back doing something is part of my life relating to that. And four years ago, I would never have thought of being the host of a podcast. But in 2021, when I joined excessively, they asked if I would do it, and here we are. And it's really doing very well, a lot of people seem to really like it. And we're having a lot of fun. And for me personally, I get to learn a lot. And I think that's the the most important thing for me is I get to learn a lot. I've, I've changed my mindset on things over the past two and a half years. And as I as I tell people, whenever we do these podcasts, there's only one hard and fast rule. And that is we both have to have fun.   Kelly Campbell ** 31:23 Yeah, yeah. And we're doing that. I'm glad that you brought that up. Because this idea of being a lifelong learner and being curious about the world. That's a little throwback to what I was talking about in childhood, right? If you if you look at a two year old, a five year old, a seven year old, a nine year old, they're, you know, everything is, in all everything is one dress, right? There's so much exploration, experimentation, and then we are taught little by little inadvertently, and then sometimes very explicitly, that that is not something that we can continue with, right? We might be able to do it for a few years when we're toddlers. But like, now, you've got to get serious. I there's people who ask, you know, five year old, what do you want to be when you grow up? Right? It's like, I don't have to make that decision. I just want to be a kid right now. So um, yeah, it's just like that, that level of curiosity and being a lifelong learner, being able to change your mindset, as opposed to having a fixed mindset and thinking very narrowly or thinking from a binary perspective. That, to me is one of the greatest gifts of healing as a leader.   Michael Hingson ** 32:35 And we really shouldn't be discouraged from being curious. And it happens. So often, I know I've been to museums and other places where I'll reach out and touch something that we're passing, and somebody say, you can't touch that you can't do this, you can't do that. Why not? The reality is, I can appreciate not everyone going to a museum should be allowed to touch art, because too many hands with oil can can have an effect on it. But allowing a blind person who's not going to see it any other way to touch it shouldn't be a problem. And allowing other people to be curious in their own way shouldn't be a problem. But it's all too often something we discourage. And as people grow older, when you get as you point out out of being a toddler, you're starting to be taught not to be curious. I've seen so many examples where I've been somewhere and somebody wants to either pet my dog or ask me a question about being blind, a child and their parents out, don't do that. It's impolite. It's not, you know? I try to well whenever I can. And, and like one of my philosophies, and one of my policies is if a child wants to pet my guide dog, and I hear the child asking the parent is, oh, no, that dog might bite and so on, I will stop, I'll take the harness off, because that's alimos cue that he's no longer working. And I will say, go ahead, you can pet the dog, he's very friendly. I just hope you're not holding an ice cream cone. But I will always do that. And with adults. Mostly the same thing. If an adult wants to pet the dog. If I have time, I will again stop and take the harness off. And I'll say I'm taking the harness off, because now he knows he's not working. And there have been a few times that someone has wanted to pet the dog. And I said, Look, I've got to go, I don't have the time right now I would love to but I just don't have the time. And they pet the dog anyway. And of course I know that because the dog turns and looks and wants to visit more because dogs love that. And I have to give the dog a correction because they shouldn't be responding to the person and the correction is just a slight tug on the leash. And I remember one case where a woman did it and she said, Oh, don't don't punish the dog. I was the one that was petting the dog and I said no, you don't understand. The dog shouldn't have reacted. I'm gonna deal with the dog and then I'll deal with you because I had already said no, I don't have time.   Kelly Campbell ** 34:57 Children. Yeah, I was just gonna say she wasn't respecting your boundaries, or the dog's boundaries in that case, right,   Michael Hingson ** 35:02 right. With children, Allah, we stopped because I don't want them to be afraid. And I want to give them the opportunity to ask questions. And I realize, well, I have a teaching mentality anyway. And I believe that my job is whenever I can to teach, and I love to do it with adults, too. It's so much fun.   Kelly Campbell ** 35:23 Yeah, I want to go back to the boundary thing, oh, man, because it just sparked something in me, you know, part of doing healing work is not taking things so personally, so that when someone does, you know, enact a boundary, you respect it, and you respect it genuinely. Right. And you also on the flip side of that, have the ability to not sort of fall into that people pleasing tendency, and you can more easily, you know, state what your boundaries are, in a very, you know, loving and respectful way. Yeah. And so I think that respecting people's boundaries, and then being able to talk about your own and express your own, that's another benefit. You know, as we're talking, it's like, we could talk, we can have a whole podcast just talking about benefits of healing. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 36:15 Maybe we should, maybe we should. But yeah, there's, there's a lot to be said, for boundaries. And I, I fear in our society, we're losing the concept of boundaries, that there are so many things that are happening, we talk about politicians and others, and so on, who seem not to have any respect for boundaries, and we're losing the art of conversation, people won't talk or allow themselves to be involved in talking about them and being involved in such discussions.   Kelly Campbell ** 36:46 I mean, that's a shame. You know, boundaries are really important, or kind. I love boundaries, boundaries also help with conversations about consent, right? I mean, all of these things are intertwined. And so the more that we heal, the more that we understand what we're comfortable with what we will accept, from the people in our lives, the things that we will not accept, and then we understand we grow and we learn new language around that. It's beautiful. It's actually well,   Michael Hingson ** 37:17 now my cat doesn't have any respect for boundaries.   Kelly Campbell ** 37:21 Well, we can't help the cats.   Michael Hingson ** 37:24 But my dog does. He really clearly respects boundaries. And I would hope that I understand his. But we have a great synergistic relationship, in reality I do with the cat as well. But she's, she's a fun kitty. She's 14 and a rescue cat, and a lot of fun. So it works well. But boundaries are something that we're just losing the art of understanding, you know, people say we shouldn't talk about politics and all that. And I keep thinking, why not? Why don't we have enough boundaries and enough respect for others that we, we can't discuss things where maybe we disagree, there's nothing wrong with disagreement, we should be able to discuss it, good teams learn to disagree. And and the point of have a good relationship in a team is that team members can very well disagree, and they know that their views will be respected by the other members of the team, so they can do it. But in general, we just don't see that. But that   Kelly Campbell ** 38:30 comes from the top. Right. So if you know there's discourse, that means that there's trust, trust is not at the top, meaning we're that we are looking up at the leader. If that trust is not there, then we are not going to feel on the team, the ability to trust one another. So it's very much like a modeling, right? And so leaders who are vulnerable leaders who say, I don't have all the answers, I actually need your help to run this organization or finish this project, or whatever it is. And then you mentioned team in the case of maybe personal relationships, you know, a team could be just two partners, a team could be a family, right? And so yeah, it all of this transcends and is so interconnected between all of these types of relationships. But yeah, I think, trust and discourse, right and not avoiding conflict, you can't have any of those things which are beautiful things, you know, to understand someone else's perspective and give them the space to express their perspective and be able to say, You know what, I can hear what you're saying, and I still have my beliefs. We made like the purpose of this discourse is not to necessarily change each other's mind, or to be on the same page. But it's just to understand a little bit more about like, underlying Lee, what are your values? What are my values? And yeah, I think that, you know, part of this is we get so rigid and so tight when we haven't addressed what's underneath all of this, you know? So yeah, I love being able to have conversations about politics or, you know, with the people. And this is where you have to be discerning, it's with the people who can hold that both and thinking, you know, and aren't such on a binary track. So you have to be discerning about that. Because you you want to keep, you know, put yourself in situations where you also feel a sense of safety.   Michael Hingson ** 40:42 Yeah. But the other part about team relationships, say within a corporation is the ultimate goal of discussions and controversy. Well, controversy or disagreement, is to eventually come to some sort of consensus and doesn't necessarily mean that one or either of us like, the decision, but we come to a decision that we can live with, until or unless it doesn't work. And then if it doesn't work, then we say, okay, it's nobody's fault. We, we decided we all did it together. Let's figure out where we go from here. And one of my favorite books is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni. I don't know if you've never read that. It's a great book. I have not, but I Well, it's it's a fairly short book. But it's a great book that talks about teamwork. And the basic premise is, as you point out trust, one of the things that I love to tell people is that I have learned a lot more about teamwork and team development, and trust, from working with eight guide dogs that I've ever learned from all the experts in the world on it, because when I'm working with a guide, dog, and I make no mistake, it is an absolute teaming relationship. When I work with a guide dog, we are truly developing a team, we each have a job to do. And part of my job is supposed to be the team leader, but also as the team leader. And this is something I was going to bring up a leader no needs to know when to give up leadership to somebody else be on the team, because they may be able to handle a particular situation well, and better than you. And you sort of alluded to that. And that's true with a guide dog. If we're walking down a sidewalk and we get to a curb, the dog stops, because the job of the guide dog is to make sure that I walk safely not to know where to go and how to get there. That's my job. And the dog trusts need to know that. And if I convey that, I don't know that the dogs gonna get worried. So it makes me feel more obligated in advance whenever we're going to be somewhere to learn how to go where I need to go, now I can still get lost. But I know that when that happens, and I get confused, I can't panic, because that's going to make the dog uncomfortable. But as I was going to say, when we get to a street corner and the dog stops, and then I say forward, and we start across the street, and suddenly the dog jerks back, I'm not going to question what that dog is doing. I'm gonna follow that dog. Partly it's a survival thing. But also partly, that's the dog's job. And what it usually is as a hybrid vehicles coming that I didn't hear. So the dog will still go back. And I'm going to follow that dog and I'm going to tell that dog what a great job it was doing. Likewise, going down the stairs at the World Trade Center was the same sort of thing. I needed to keep the dog confident and focused. So it was ongoing constant praise, which was also sending a message to the dog. I'm okay. And it didn't matter what I was thinking inside. That's what I needed to do to help my teammate be able to function well. Yeah. Yeah.   Kelly Campbell ** 44:02 Thank you for for a sharing that story. I know you've shared it many times, but I just just hearing it and kind of in this, this little conversation. I appreciate it. And it it really speaks to that relationship, that trust and also the fact that as a leader, you will not always have the right answer or know what to do next. Right, right. The there's something since we're on the the theme of dogs and cats and there is something that I put into the prologue of the book related to geese, Canada geese. And the reason why I did that was because my grandmother loved loved the more than anyone I've ever known. Loved Canada geese specifically because they fly in a V formation. And the reason why I the reason behind the flying in a V formation. So many people don't know this. But when they fly into V formation, the leader quote unquote, who is at the top of the V. V, right? That is the most rested goose, right. So the one who has essentially moved all the way to the back, has rested for the longest period of time then flies past every one of the other ones and takes the leadership position. And they do that because they are the most rested. And what I love about that is if we started thinking about trusting the the leader who is the most rested, right, that the relationship between trust and rest. If that was part of the way that we think about leadership, boy, would that be a different? Yeah, we would live in, right. So it speaks to like regenerative leadership and you know, trusting someone who is maybe in a better physical scenario than you, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's fascinating how we've gotten so off course, with what we think of as a leader or a good leader, versus what you know, the definition should really be. I   Michael Hingson ** 46:23 wonder how it is that the geese know who the most rested is?   Kelly Campbell ** 46:28 Well, just based on where they are in the formation, so the one at the very back has fallen back from the leadership position with that they were in at one point, and they also in time, well, every time a new one comes to the front, they basically take the next position back, right. And so there, by the time they get to the very tail of the V formation, that's the one who has benefited from that aerodynamic, you know, situation,   Michael Hingson ** 46:56 and they track it. So they they know. Yeah, and that's, that's the point. So did your grandmother ever get to visit with any of the Canadian geese? Um,   Kelly Campbell ** 47:05 my grandmother, she loves Canada geese so much that she actually had had requested that we had a flock of geese in a V formation engraved on her headstone. I mean, that's what she loved them. And for me, it was more about this idea of innate leadership that she really I sort of digested from her or I don't know, maybe it's through osmosis. Because she was, she was like the matriarch of our family. And was not the one that was the most vocal was not the one that didn't ask for help. She led in in a way that really was real and human and vulnerable and just beautiful. She was She She created a lot of trust within our family. For each of the grandchildren, you know, I kind of joke around that she made each and every one of us feel like we were her favorite. So yeah, I just I have such fond memories of that. So that's why I started the book with that. When   Michael Hingson ** 48:12 we moved to Northern California back in 2002. There was a flock of ducks. Well, before we moved in our there was a contractor who did work to make the house wheelchair accessible for my wife. And he warned us that there were ducks. And he said, he made the mistake of giving a piece of a donut to one of them. And he said every day, they would come up to the door. And if I didn't have doughnuts for them, they'd go for the throat. So we we got to visit with the ducks. And then one day I was out feeding the ducks. And we brought we bought what I call duck bread. We bought white bread from Costco, and they loved it. And while I was out feeding the ducks one day sitting on our back patio, and this bigger beak came into the mix. And I called Karen, who came on and said it's a goose and it was an American greylag goose who had been living in that community for a while. I don't know whether he thought he was a duck. But he and the ducks got along and he loved to come up and get fed as well. And like to get petted. It was a you know, I knew that goose generally were a little bit touchy about that, but not silver. He loved it.   Kelly Campbell ** 49:22 That's great. I love it. I love it. You have so much nature in your life was a lot of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 49:26 And eventually he died. He was like 18 when we knew him and oh, wow, we I don't know how much longer he lived but one day he wasn't there anymore. So what are some? What are some self care strategies that leaders can use when you're trying to deal with this long term commitment to heal?   Kelly Campbell ** 49:46 Well, I think you're illustrating one really nicely in in some of these stories, which is connection to nature, right getting out in nature. If you have pets, you know, sometimes self care Looks like going for a walk with your dog or petting your cat. Even taking care of your plants, right? I know these things sound really simple, but I think a lot of people think about self care as only, you know, maybe going to the gym or getting a massage or some people think about self care as having a glass of wine after work. Those things, in many ways, sort of, you can think about them like superficial self care. And that's sort of a bifurcation that I make in the book. You know, when we're talking about really integrating trauma, we're doing deep, pretty profound work, where there can be emotions that come up, anger, sadness, grief, rage, you know, things that we didn't maybe express when we were younger, there's a lot to deal with. So real self care strategies is, you know, maybe things like enacting boundaries, if you've got friends that want to go out and you feel like you just don't have the capacity for that. Maybe it's saying, you know, thank you for the invitation, I'm actually going to take care of myself, tonight, I'm going to prioritize my mental well being or my physical well being. So it's resting for sure, it's probably at the top of my list is getting more rest, because so many of us do not get rest. Sure, we might sleep at night for a few hours or even 678 hours. But that sleep, rest is a little different. So rest could be like taking naps or things like that. prioritizing our ourselves in terms of those boundaries. I mean, there are so many different things that you can employ, but they have to feel good for you. Right? And, you know, again, really thinking about this, this distinction between what is superficial, right? And what is actual self care, right? taking time for yourself, maybe if you're, I don't know, doing some project, maybe building in some rest periods, so that you're not just grinding through it. We're in such a hustle culture. And we normalize that. And we think that it's a positive thing, because we're getting rewarded from the by that we get rewarded with promotions and all these other things when we overwork. Well, we get overstimulated. We get Yeah, we get bonuses and promotions for it. But at what cost? Right, taking care of ourselves is more about Yeah, just having an awareness of what do I actually need? What capacity? Do I actually have to get this thing done? Or to say yes to this? Is this something that I should be saying no to. So it's more of that in that realm. And of course, there are, you know, probably dozens of other things that we can kind of put into the real self care bucket. But I think it's in that realm, and I would put rest at the top, where   Michael Hingson ** 53:06 should leaders, I think we've touched on this, but actually begin if they want to start down this path of healing.   Kelly Campbell ** 53:16 There are a lot of places to start. I mean, again, if you've never spoken with anyone before, I think therapy is a wonderful place to start, it may not be the thing that will get you to trauma integration, but it's a great mental health maintenance protocol. And it's a great entryway into healing. If you want to learn a little bit more about where you're sitting on the spectrum of, you know, being a conscious leader, like high conscious leader, low conscious leader, evolving leader, and what all of that kind of means, I do have a leadership quiz. So it's essentially answering 20 Different if statements and seeing how true those feel to you, though that quiz is on my website, it's free. If you want to get the full report, quote, unquote, or the full assessment, you would just have to put your email address in at the end. But that's at k l campbell.com. Forward slash leadership.   Michael Hingson ** 54:17 Cool. Well, we'll have to go go check out the quiz non curious, which is fair. Well, you know, you talked earlier about people pleasing. And I, I realized that can be a real problem and a real challenge. So I thought I'd just do this because I don't want to make anyone unhappy. And that, again, that's not dealing with boundaries very well, including your own. So what are some things that people can do to stop just being a people pleasing leader or a people pleaser?   Kelly Campbell ** 54:48 Well, it's not going to come by just stopping it right? Like it's not going to come from a mental shift of I, you know, I'm going to stop doing this. It really you have to understand and start doing to work on the underlying causes and conditions as to why you are in that people pleasing mode, and most of the time that comes from us not feeling like we're worthy, or we're valuable unless we say yes to these things, or, you know, God, God forbid, if we, you know, create conflict. Or if we say no, or we push back on something, this person may not like me, I may not get this promotion, right. So there's all these stories that get created. So I think it's about really going under the hood and figuring out where does that come from, you know, sort of unpacking that for yourself, and then deciding, okay, I want to have more control over my schedule, I want to have more control over my life, I want to do pursue the things that I want to pursue. And in order to do that, I've got to say no, to certain things. So yeah, it's it's really about extending a little bit of self exploration, determining what you want to change in those realms, and then doing some of the work on yourself. And it's through that work, that you get to the point where you're like, you know, what, I am worthy, and valuable. And all of that, simply for who I am, I don't need to prove that by saying yes to all of these things by taking on all of this responsibility that I actually don't have capacity for. So it's a much longer answer than you're looking for. But that's the reality of it. It's not just oh, I'm not going to people, please anymore. So you know, because the reality is, you could give people tools and tactics all day long. But if you're not addressing, or they're not addressing the underlying causes, it's just not going to be effective. Actually,   Michael Hingson ** 56:45 more was like the answer I was looking for. Because I know it's not a simple thing to do. There. But you know, at work, there are a lot of people who keep saying, You're not doing enough, you didn't do this, you got to do that. How do you push back on that if you're at work or or in any part of your life, to say, wait a minute, I'm really doing the best that I can and get people to accept that? Well,   Kelly Campbell ** 57:10 this is about boundaries, right? is at the end of the day, you cannot control what other people think about you, or how they talk about you or what their perception is, you have to be really comfortable with your own decisions. Yeah, and setting those boundaries from a place I as I said before, of like compassion and kindness and just you know, being loving, but you're, what you're doing is you're being loving to yourself, at the same time that you're actually being loving to them, they may not interpret it that way, they may not receive it that way. But the more you take care of you, the more you can actually give in other realms. So how do you do it and you know, if people are pushing back, you know, there are lots of ways to be able to get them to see, you know, this is what I've done. This is what I'm able to do, right? So for will give a concrete example, you're at work your boss asks you to take on this project that you have absolutely no capacity for. So you could say something like, I'm happy to help with that project, I have this other project that you've given me that I'm fully dedicated to which one takes priority, because I can't do both. So which one would you like me to work on starting today? And potentially push off? You know, so we're gonna have to talk about the timeframe in which those things are completed. Right. So it's more of a conversation. It's more of a collaborative, as opposed to just saying yes, and then not letting anyone know that you're working until one o'clock in the morning, not getting enough sleep, it's impacting your health, etc, etc. You know where this goes? Yeah, I would say the majority of people function like that. And I would say that function is probably not what they're doing.   Michael Hingson ** 59:00 Yeah. And they're totally missing the opportunity to be better performers. And if the people they're working with won't develop some respect for that, then they're contributing to a lack of productivity. Got it? Yeah. I remember one of my first jobs was not in sales. But I was called into the office of the VP of Marketing one day and said, We're laying you off. And I said, why? And he said, Well, you've done a great job of things that you were doing, but we've hired too many non revenue producing people. And we have to change that. So we're laying you off. And then he paused, he said, unless you're willing to go into sales. And we don't want you to sell the product that you were working with, which was mainly a reading machine for blind people, but rather the commercial version of it. And my immediate response was, I don't know anything about sales. I've never sold professionally and his response was, we'll make sure you get all the tools you need. We're going to send you to a Dale Carnegie sales course and sell One. And as he talked, I realized, they're asking me to do a really significant thing. And he's giving me an opportunity to stay. Why would I refuse. And I've been in sales ever since, of course, what I realized later is, we're every one of us is always in sales one way or another, but it, I can, I can trace being in the world trade center back to that choice actually being in sales a long time ago. But that, you know, and I think a lot of us if we really think about it, can trace where we are back to choices that we've made. And that's a valuable lesson to give us an opportunity to learn from.   Kelly Campbell ** 1:00:37 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And seeing it for that, you know, seeing it as those those choice points and those opportunities that we could have taken one path, and we took a different path. And just knowing that that was probably what we were meant to do.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:53 So tell us about the book is not it's not that we haven't been talking about it. But tell us about the book,   Kelly Campbell ** 1:00:57 I've been talking about it a little bit here and there. So the book is really a wake up call. We as a society, and as leaders can't keep going the way that we're going. And so, you know, between the mental health stigma, and the idea that we cannot talk about our humanity and our trauma, at work, and I don't mean trauma, dumping, I just mean, who we are, and how our past has impacted our present. Men, many people really wouldn't touch this stuff and won't touch the stuff and haven't touch the stuff with a 10 foot pole. Because we're so afraid to face the truth of who we are, or we're afraid of what we might find out. And I think that we're at a choice point, we're at a critical impasse here, where if we don't start waking up, and we don't start taking responsibility for ourselves, our reactions, our behaviors, all of that. remedying our disconnection from this planet that we live on, right, understanding what we're here to contribute in the world. And not thinking that life is some individualistic journey, right? Because that's not what it's about. Really, this book is a wake up call for leaders to say, You know what, there has to be a better way to be in the world. And then I think I have to go inward. And here are the ways in which I'm going to do that. I do share a number of very personable personal vulnerable stories, just to kind of model that vulnerability, and give you a sense of like, what that trauma looked like for me as a leader. Alright, how the impact of trauma impacted me as a leader. And all of it is framed around this idea of, if we are going to move forward in a direction where everyone you know, feels seen, heard, valued, respected, appreciated, et cetera, safe. We want to live in a world that is inclusive and equitable and revered nature for what it is. Then I frame this as the four fundamentals of what we call high conscious leadership. And so trauma integration is the first fundamental. And then we have embodying vulnerability, and then leading with compassion. And the fourth one is lighting the way which is really again, much something I mentioned earlier, leading the way is about creating more leaders, not more followers. So that's a little bit of an encapsulation of what healed to lead us. So it's healed to lead, revolutionising leadership through trauma healing.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:46 And when will the book be out?   Kelly Campbell ** 1:03:48 The book will be out April 16th. Cool.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:52 Well, anxious to to get it. Do you know if there'll be an audio version? I   Kelly Campbell ** 1:03:59 don't know yet. I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be but not initially. So initially, it'll just be digital. And so Kindle and hardcover, eventually, I'm assuming that there'll be an audible version. And probably a paperback at some point in the future.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:17 Yeah, usually, the hardcover eventually goes to paperback, if it sounds at all, and it will, then that usually does happen. Well, even the Kindle version will have to try to hunt it down. I'm working on a new book that will be out later this year. It's called Live like a guide dog. And it's all about learning to control fear. And what it's not is saying don't be afraid it is saying instead, you can learn that fear doesn't need to overwhelm you. So that's gonna be out in August. That'll   Kelly Campbell ** 1:04:41 be I love that. Congratulations on that. And I   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:45 just learned last week that it and I kind of insisted on it. Needless to say, since there are a bunch of us who are blind who are going to want to read it, there will be an audio version of it. So we push that with the publishers. That's cool.   Kelly Campbell ** 1:04:57 That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That's wonderful. Well, I'm very excited about that for you.   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:02 Well, I want to thank you for for being here. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Kelly Campbell ** 1:05:08 My website is probably the best way you can find the book. You can find more about what I do. It's just k l campbell.com. Cool.   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:16 And they can go off and take the leadership quiz as well as your quizzes right there. Yeah. Well, thanks for being here. And I want to thank all of you wherever you are for listening today, please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening. Love those five star ratings, but we also love just getting your opinions and your thoughts. So please, contribute. If you know anyone who want to be a guest on unstoppable mindset. Kelly, you as well please let us know. And we are always looking for more people to have on to give us insights. Me being prejudiced, I get to learn a lot that way. So we love to do it. If you'd like to reach out to me feel free you can reach me at Michael M i c h a e l h i at acces

Brene' Brown said "Change is uncomfortable and hard as hell." Today's episode explores the reasons behind our avoidance or resistance of change. Sources cited: https://brenebrown.com/podcast/courage-in-the-midst-of-change/ Repentance defined Old/New Testament etymology ______________________________ The ⁠⁠Beyond the Shadow of Doubt™⁠⁠ podcast is a proud member of the Dialogue Podcast Network found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DialogueJournal.com/podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Part of the Dialogue Journal, the Dialogue Podcast Network was founded by Eugene England, a Mormon writer, teacher and scholar. “My faith encourages my curiosity and awe,” Gene wrote in the very first issue of the journal. “It thrusts me out into relationship with all creation” and “encourages me to enter into dialogue.” My hope is that this podcast is an extension of his vision. Staring January 2024, come join "First Fridays Free Coaching." ⁠⁠⁠Go here: https://app.paperbell.com/checkout/packages/71129⁠⁠⁠! Connect with me at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠meaganskidmorecoaching.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠; click "Work with Me" to subscribe to get my free Pronouns 101 guide.  Hopeful Spaces is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dallas Hope Charities⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ component of Hopeful Discussions, which is sponsored by Mercedes-Benz Financial Services USA. Hopeful Spaces is a monthly parent support group facilitated by Meagan Skidmore Coaching. To join Hopeful Spaces send an email to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠chc@dallashopecharities.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  Please help the podcast grow by following, leaving a 5 star review on Spotify or Apple podcasts and sharing with friends.

Ever feel like some folks just don't get your spark? Well, you're not alone. Brene Brown's concept of keeping the flame alive by picking those who pick us is so important. Let's precious souls who fan your flames, not douse them. This episode is about ditching the naysayers and cherishing those who cheer us on. Brene's insights? Pure gold. Let's learn to treasure those true-blue friends and make our inner circle a fortress of love and support. #SoulTribe #BreneBrownWisdom #TrueFriends #HeartToHeart #SparkJoy #InnerCircleGoals

In this episode, Matt and Kirsten take a break from our having awesome guests on TBE to catch up, share how life has been, and how both of them are facing the need to level set to ensure they are employing the true practices of self-care that ensure they and the listeners they support can sustain the important work we all do in education for kids. Other podcast mentioned hosted by Suzanne Dailey is "Teach Happier." Permission Slips concept by Brene' Brown. Listeners please share your thoughts and ideas with us on our social media accounts on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠ @thebulldogedu  You can also follow Matt on instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠@CastIron⁠⁠⁠⁠ or X (formerly Twitter) ⁠⁠⁠⁠@MatthewCaston⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Kirsten on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ or X (formerly ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠) @teachkiwi, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIN ⁠⁠⁠⁠as Kirsten Wilson. Please subscribe to The Bulldog Educator to continue listening on your favorite podcast platform.

How to overcome mom guilt & mom shame - because you deserve a break (and some compassion) | In this solo episode, we will focus on understanding the differences between mom guilt and mom shame. Starting with that awareness alone can help us identify both our own maternal and societal expectations of us as mothers. Knowledge is power, right?!

183 - The Power of Your Authentic Self I talk about the book from Brené Brown called Braving the Wilderness about the importance of being brave and bringing everyone in, even those we disagree with. She explained that true belonging is about standing in our own opinion, presenting our authentic selves to the world, and having the courage to stand alone when necessary. She also mentioned that belonging is an innate human desire to be part of something larger than ourselves, which often leads us to try to acquire it by seeking approval and fitting in. However, true belonging can only happen when we have self-acceptance and present our authentic selves to the world. She said that true belonging is not something we can gain or someone can give us. It's something we carry in our hearts. Once we believe thoroughly in ourselves, true belonging becomes ours. She challenged us to think about a situation where we feel ourselves trying to gain admiration, appreciation, or a sense of belonging from someone else. She suggested that we can start small and show ourselves that we can stand as our true selves and be okay with it, without looking towards others for validation. In conclusion, Brene was inspiring by telling us to connect with others and to be kind. It reminded me of the importance of being authentic and standing in our own opinion, even if it means standing alone. Only when we have self-acceptance and believe in ourselves can we experience true belonging. I hope you take the challenge and think about a situation where you can be authentic and stand alone. https://brenebrown.com/book/braving-the-wilderness/ https://startwithsmallsteps.com/183-the-power-of-your-authentic-self/ Jill's Links https://abetterlifeinsmallsteps.com https://affiliate.notion.so/NorthwoodsJill https://affiliate.notion.so/NorthwoodsAI https://www.youtube.com/@startwithsmallstepspodcast https://www.buymeacoffee.com/smallstepspod https://twitter.com/SmallStepsPod Email the podcast at jill@startwithsmallsteps.com

Mel and Jay deep dive on mental health and systems we can use to manage and improve our mental health over time and experience. What would you add? Please comment, we would love to hear your thoughts and experiences too. ::: Links mentioned: Book: The Body Keeps the Score, by Bessel Van der Kolk. Brene […]

So, in 2021 Shelby had been divorced for 5 years. She'd held a variety of different jobs within a short frame of time due to the ups and downs of her industry at the time and a variety of reorganizations and acquisitions. She wasn't truly happy in life...nor was she truly DISsatisfied. The best word to describe the way she felt was "stuck". Trinity was also stuck after just leaving a stagnant relationship. So, one day (on a whim and in support of a good friend's school fundraiser) Shelby purchased an 8-week course at an elementary school silent auction written by Brene Brown and delivered by one of her certified partners (also a mom at the school). It felt like a great investment on her part and she thought it would help her move beyond feeling stuck. One of the exercises was around finding your core values. The exercise required you to look at a list of a 50 or so stated values and choose 15 that resonated with you. Then, from there the goal was to continue to narrow the list to 2 that really resonated. The values Shelby selected from that list included words like, "productivity", "accountability", "adaptability", integrity etc. Then the facilitator took the group away from the prescribed content to help participants visualize their values in a different way. She asked the group to write one story about something in life that they had accomplished that they were proud of. This couldn't include things like marriage or children. It had to be something the individuals in the group had accomplished that made us proud. Then she asked the group to recall a specific memory from early childhood or from our past in which they had experienced pure joy. The participants spent some time writing out these memories and then she had them read them to the group. And as the stories were read, the group was instructed to capture noticeable themes from the stories. When the stories were done were done the facilitator and other participants to reflect back the themes THEY pulled out of the stories. You see, it is in these stories in which our TRUE values are visible. When Shelby left that session, her profound revelation was that what she truly valued were things like "community", "impact", "love/ or what Brene calls wholeheartedness". It suddenly resonated why she was feeling so...stuck, disconnected, so...fill in the blank...right. It was because she was living a life that was out of alignment with her core values. Then circumstances brought Trinity and Shelby back together and Shelby started talking about this crazy fucking idea about starting a podcast. Of course, Trinity was like, bitch, I don't even know what a podcast IS...let alone listen to one! lol But, the more Shelby talked about it the more Trinity was drawn to the idea. The goal was to try to connect with and learn from other women in midlife who were struggling to find themselves, just like us. And you know what we learned along the way?!? We learned more about ourselves. We started exploring our passions...we realized there were big and little traumas that were impacting our mindset and heartset that might be holding us back from greatness! We interviewed some pretty amazing men and women and you know what?! We started DOING the shit they suggested. Trinity started working out, having her hormones tested, reflecting on her past...I mean, she definitely didn't give in and started journaling or anything crazy like that...it will take a cold day in hell before she does that... But, Shelby journaled and learned so much about herself and was able to set and achieve some relevant goals and heal in so many ways from childhood traumas. Trinity started on a mission to find her joy. She's always been a spontaneous person who likes to try new things....so, she took a solo trip to Ireland with nothing but a backpack, used a rope swing to catapult herself off a cliff and into a lake-fully clothed. We started living LIFE. And we both have attracted new relationships and inspired others along the way. What we realized along the way is that it is soo easy to get stuck...and STAY stuck...especially during a fucking global pandemic....BITCH! But, we realized that with the right tools and people on your side you CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS and accomplish your dreams. We started asking ourselves some pretty tough questions...Like what are the consequences if nothing changes? AND...are you willing to settle for that? We thought...what if we could capture what we've learned on our journey so far and provide these tools and a supportive community to others who are struggling who have felt stuck, just like us. The podcast is just ONE vehicle where we can share this relevant information out into the world and build community. What if we could actually connect women around the world to help one another. To create a safe place to share our fears, our excitements, to get advice and friendship! So, we distilled our journey into a simple blueprint using the acronym HERO....because we feel like damn if we don't all keep waiting for someone else to be our "hero" and save our asses! but, girl...here's a secret...no one is coming to save you. We have to learn to be our OWN hero. So, what in the hell does it mean to be your OWN hero? It means: Healing the past and move beyond negative narratives. Embracing change. Rediscovering your passions and realigning to your values. Owning the results And, ladies, we are our own guests today! We want to share a little bit about our personal journeys and experiences along the way and at the end of this episode, we want you to ask yourself what are the consequences if nothing changes.... If you want to join us in the middle...please check out our website at dearmidlife.com. We can't wait to see you there. S; and are you willing to settle for that...?

Holiday Hacks 2023: Top Leadership Videos Being Watched by Gen Z (12 of 13)On this year's Holiday Hacks, we break down the leadership videos being watched by the most Gen Z leaders. The twelvth video is "The Call to Courage" by Brené Brown:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIQQx1KNZcPatreon Account: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=22174142This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4805674/advertisement

Let's be real, we're all juggling too much stress, and our go-to coping mechanisms might offer a temporary escape, but what about long-term well-being?  Enter the stress cycle, an often-overlooked concept that could be your game-changer. Today, we're diving into it with Kimberly Knull, a registered psychologist and certified Dare to Lead Facilitator who trained with THE Brene' Brown (IYKYK).  Tune in to discover tangible tips for completing the stress cycle and sending your brain the signal to unwind. You'll walk away from this episode with a deeper understanding of your brain that will empower you to create a calmer, healthier life.   Connect with Kim:  Register for Dare to Lead™ Workshop, where you'll learn the 4 skillsets of courage to level up at home, work and in your community | https://www.kimberlyknull.com/dare-to-lead Connect with Katie: Book a Free Strategy Call | www.katiehake.com/schedule Let's be friends! Come hang out with me on Instagram | www.instagram.com/kthake  

Riley Blaisdell is currently a Major Market Account Executive at Paycor. In his AE role, I'd say Riley has done more for helping shine a light on women in sales than many senior leaders I know. He has done this through his growing visibility on LinkedIn. Right now during "Women in Sales" month, he's talking up different women in sales each day.  I noticed that Riley has this list of women he gladly shares anytime one of the "bro's" in sales will post a number of guys and here will come Riley's list of some amazing women in sales and sales leadership he's been introduced to.  We wanted to talk Riley up in this episode to show that as a male ally, you don't have to wait until you have a power role in your company to speak up and support the effort for more #womeninsales - you can do it now. If you like the episode, please comment and share it. Ultimately a 5 star review and comment about the podcast on iTunes is a winning move we'd love to see.  Riley Blaisdell on LinkedIn - connect with him!  He references the work of Brene' Brown  If you enjoy this podcast, consider a donation to the Barbara Giamanco Memorial Scholarship to give scholarships to women in Sales Education Foundation recognized Universities and Colleges here.  More at Women Sales Pros - where we're working to help change the face of sales.  Follow Women Sales Pros on LinkedIn, as well as President Lori Richardson  Recommend a woman in a sales role or awesome male ally! They could be featured next. 

Doesn't heartache feel unfair and like unwanted suffering? When we are rejected, we can feel disoriented. It's hard to know we're loved, that we belong and we are valued. This is the danger of a rough breakup! No matter what you go through, it is never true that you aren't worthy of love. This is when we suffer. We had our partner and we belonged together. When we are no more, there is suffering. How do you shift out of this suffering? Is the answer to be vulnerable? Even when you've put your armor of protection up? Listen to Brene and Oprah share about this idea. I hope you feel inspired and encouraged. Thank you for listening. You're invited! Let me know if you'd  like to participate in collaborating with me in building connection, community, and sharing input to make the show the best it can be. Send me a message to learn more at: https://www.facebook.com/cheriunbreakmyheart

When we feel alone in the darkness, when we're being bullied by lies that say we aren't worthy - we need hope and faith! Sometimes, just that you're showing up is enough. It counts and you're not alone!  This chat echos these sentiments as Brene and Oprah share about risks and consequences of vulnerability. Thank you for listening! You're invited! Let me know if you'd  like to participate in collaborating with me in building connection, community, and sharing input to make the show the best it can be. Send me a message to learn more at: https://www.facebook.com/cheriunbreakmyheart

Being "authentic" or "authenticity" can be frequently used (and sometimes even over-used) buzz words in our world currently. But I read something this week that made me totally re-think what authenticity actually means, which isn't just about trying to share unfiltered pictures or messy, imperfect moments of our lives. This definition goes deeper into self-acceptance and the way we act maybe even more importantly in our private lives and even the thought processes in our own minds and what it really takes to be able to sleep well at the end of the day knowing you stayed true to the person you are, completely and authentically. Time Stamps: [00:49] - What does it mean to be authentic? [05:57] - Corrine and Neil talk about letting go of expectations placed on yourself by you or others. [11:34] - How do you define the core of who you are? [15:16] - Feel all your feelings instead of trying to shove them away. [20:25] - Are you being honest with yourself? [24:32] - We're all figuring life out. Supporting Resources: "Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are" Book by Brene' Brown Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One of the greatest challenges we have is in the space of creating boundaries.“Daring to set boundaries is about having the courage to love ourselves, even when we risk disappointing others”. Brene' BrownIn today's episode, Debi will be sharing some insight from the book, Boundaries, by Dr. John Townsend and Dr. Henry Cloud and how this book both inspired and gave her the courage to create boundaries in her own personal life.In this episode, Debi shares:Why do we need boundaries?What are the myths that we believe that keep us from creating boundaries?What do we mean by stewardship of our own lives?About Debi:Debi is a Certified Life Transition Coach, International Best-Selling Author, Speaker, and Podcast Host.   She is passionate about helping people understand the purpose the power of the transitions they experience in life.  Getting her clients to the other side of the Transition Bridge is a highlight of Debi's life. CONNECT WITH DEBIDo you feel stuck?  Do you sense it's time for a change but unsure where to start or how to move forward?  Schedule a clarity call!Free Clarity Call: https://calendly.com/debironca/free-clarity-callWebsite – www.debironca.comEmail – info@debironca.comCheck out my online course!                                                                                          “Your Story's Changing, finding Purpose in Life's Transitions”https://course.sequoiatransitioncoaching.com/8-week-programAre you experiencing the symptoms of transition? Take a free assessment!https://assessment.sequoiatransitioncoaching.com/free-quizThe Family Letter by Debi Ronca – International Best Sellerhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SSJFXBD

In today's episode, join me for a fascinating discussion with entrepreneur Allie Danziger. As the founder of Ampersand, a platform empowering early career professionals, Allie shares her inspiring journey of building a company that fills real needs in the market. Her innovative spirit and knack for staying on top of trends have led to her success in launching her first social media PR agency in Texas. Allie provides unique insights into sparking creativity through yoga, running while consuming business content and navigating changes like an acquisition. Her openness to opportunities, regardless of source, echoes the importance of constant learning. Listen in for invaluable wisdom on communication, mentors, and balancing self-care when uncertainty strikes. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Allie Danziger, the Founder of Ampersand, shares her journey of creating a platform that empowers early career professionals with necessary skills to thrive in their careers. She emphasizes the importance of staying current with market trends and fostering creativity and innovation to propel the business. Allie shares her unique approach to sparking creativity, which includes finding inspiration in business books and podcasts while running or doing yoga. We highlight the importance of being open to opportunities, regardless of their source, and the significance of building and maintaining relationships. Allie talks about her unique leadership style and the crucial role of mentors in her entrepreneurial journey. We discuss the importance of having the right team and she shares her thoughts on how she would spend a 30-day sabbatical. Allie shares her story of how she grew her first business, Integrate, noticing the shift towards social media and starting the first social media PR agency in Texas. She emphasizes the importance of knowing who you are bringing on board in your business and how it will impact the future of the company. Allie shares her insights on building relationships with employees, customers, and stakeholders, emphasizing honesty, clarity, and empathy. She talks about her experience of finding her way as a leader as her company was acquired, and she came into a new team, emphasizing the importance of gathering the right people to the table and giving them power and autonomy. LINKSShow Notes Previous Episodes About BoyarMiller GUESTS Allie DanzigerAbout Allie TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Chris Hanslik In this episode, you'll meet Allie Danziger, who has founded and sold two startup businesses in her career. Allie shares many great tips on how to be successful in business, but one of the best is to focus on your own self-care to build good habits that will translate into your professional life. Okay, Allie, I want to thank you for being here today. I really appreciate your time. Allie Danziger Thank you so much. I'm excited to do this video. Chris Hanslik So there's a lot that we could cover and talk about with you, and I hope we get to touch on everything, but I want to start with current business. Tell us what it is and what it's known for. Allie Danziger So Ampersand business is a training platform that helps early career professionals learn the skills they need to succeed in their careers. Chris Hanslik So what was your inspiration for starting Ampersand? Allie Danziger Well, ampersand is I mean in a little bit more detail. It's a training platform. So we have 250 different lessons in there that students or early career professionals never learn and college oftentimes not through college or high school jobs that they may have of really how to succeed. How to set a calendar in mind. How to attend a meeting. When to raise your hand in a meeting. How to ask for a boss for a vacation the right way. How to book the flight and then ask for the vacation. Ask them first. Have a plan. Here's the agenda. What to do when you meet with your team before you go on a vacation. How to come back. What to do if your boss texts you while you're on vacation. So all these like unwritten rules and all of that came from my experience in my previous business where we hired over 250 interns and entry level employees and I was constantly frustrated. But they just didn't know these things, and so we built pretty robust training at that other company called Integrate for our interns and entry level employees. When COVID hit, I was spending a lot of time talking to young professionals who had lost their jobs or internships. I realized I was saying the same things over and over again and looked around for resources for them, for podcasts, to listen to our books to read or whatever, and there was nothing that could teach all of those. Just I call it the unwritten rules of the workplace soft skills power skills, durable skills, like there's a ton of buzzwords for social intelligence. There's a book. Chris Hanslik There's a book right, social intelligence, kind of that. Yeah, it is. Allie Danziger And so that was the impetus to start a quick pilot as a nights and weekends project, to test the concept and then launch this. Chris Hanslik That's amazing and definitely serving. I mean, I think what I find interesting about all my guests is usually the inspiration is experiencing some gap and whatever industry they're in, and then taking advantage of it. That sounds exactly what you've done with Ampersand, yeah exactly. Allie Danziger I mean, there's still and I just cannot believe it that there still is nothing that we have yet to find that is interesting and engaging training that Gen Z or young professionals actually want to go through and participate in, that teaches these really important skills. There's a lot of boot camps out there. There's a lot of schools out there. There's a lot of workforce development programs that are trying different things, but what I believe we've created something that works at scale to keep young adults really engaged. Chris Hanslik That's great. So I know just from knowing you that you've recently kind of taken Ampersand to a new level kind of. Maybe, since you can share that, I mean, what's transpired, and how is that going to help take the company to the next level? Allie Danziger Absolutely so. Just two weeks ago, we were acquired by a student lending company called Ascent Funding. So actually now I am the SVP and GM of a success platform at Ascent Funding. And what they? Why that made sense is they have always offered every single borrower hundreds of thousands of borrowers career coaching, because they believe that their job as a lender is not just to give them money and then ask for money back upon graduation, knowing that colleges don't necessarily adequately prepare you to go get that job, but that they want to really ensure the success of every student they get money to. They're one of the good guys. Yeah, so your values aligned, our values were very aligned, and so we were out raising money and meeting with lots of different VCs and different companies out there, and I met the Ascent folks and we realized that this is just one of those situations where one plus one equals five and we could really use it as an opportunity to grow their business while giving Ampersand the resources that we needed from dev, support, leadership, etc. Additional coaches to really grow our platform in the existing way that we always have to the businesses and to colleges and simultaneously help their business too. Chris Hanslik That's great. Well, congratulations on that. I'm very excited. Well, we don't always start, that's not sure the end, but we'll go back more to the beginning. What you're doing is innovative, to say the least. So what is it that you try to do at Ampersand that fosters creativity, innovation in order to kind of propel the business? Allie Danziger So for me personally and for my team, I mean, we are a learning and development platform, but I think it's super important for us to constantly be learning and developing ourselves as well, and so it's just by taking time to stay up to date with what's happening in the market, knowing that what we've created doesn't exist, and so it is white paper which is sometimes very scary for me and the team right Like we're not making something better, cheaper or faster than someone else. We are truly creating something that has never existed before, which is good and bad. Chris Hanslik It's going to be inspirational and exciting. Allie Danziger It's certainly great for recruiting and it's certainly great for just like seeing something in a totally different market and thinking about how that can apply to Ampersand and applying some of the problems in the industry, in the ed tech space, in the thin tech space, in the workforce development space, and saying, well, guys, this is really broken. I'll be doing the same thing the same way for 25 years. Let's come in and I'm allowed to ask some questions because I'm new to the space and we're creating something different which I think get the brain working. With my previous business, with Integrate, I was really focused on just like serving our clients. We were a marketing agency, worked with over 600 businesses in my 12 year tenure, but we were busy all the time and I never really took the tie or I didn't take enough time to develop my own professional development skills, my own leadership skills, until about halfway through that experience and then realized how much that work is actually the work that's the work that matters, but I used to think that it wasn't, and so I think it's just about structuring your days and again, myself and my team, structuring our days so that we have the time and space to think, to create, to brainstorm. That's unstructured. It's not through meeting or like time block on your calendar to do work so that you can innovate. Chris Hanslik What are some of the things getting a little granular on that point that you do, or that you recommend, a listener that's at business under trying to grow, do the structure so they can find that time. Allie Danziger Yeah, so I well, I work out, and when I work out, I usually when I run I listen to business books, and your brain wanders while you're on a run listening to a business book, but it's like every single book that I read, I change my way of thinking about something or come up with some different idea. Same with podcasts, too, so hopefully this will inspire the listeners. Chris Hanslik That's the goal, yeah. Allie Danziger It's really like learning different opinions and just different ways of doing things is what opens up my mind. If I do that in a really structured setting, I get really bored, right Like if I do it I have to sit at my desk and have to learn something in that moment. But for me personally, it's while I'm on a run or while I'm in my car and I'm like half listening, but I don't really need to learn something, but really just be inspired. That's when it works for me to come up with those ideas. I also do a lot of yoga, and so then that that is when the ideas then like formulate more. But my team always knows that in March-ish, when the weather starts to get better at around 5am, is when they'll start getting these emails from me, because I will have six. Am Sorry because I've just gotten back from a run and like the ideas just are flowing and make it super annoying. Chris Hanslik I love that. Well, I'm an early morning workout person myself and I know exactly what you're talking about. The question, the challenge, is capturing them right, because you can't write it down or whatever. Allie Danziger Well, so in my yoga class I always I try to remember to take a notepad and pen, because they want to let your phones in and then that way, just as the ideas come, I can write them down and hopefully remember what they mean later. I tried doing it in my Apple watch with that. Then it's just gibberish and I have no idea what it means. Chris Hanslik Yeah. Allie Danziger And on the run, yeah, I'll send myself emails. That just no subject line is every idea that pops into my head. Chris Hanslik I love it. Yeah, Good. So you mentioned Integrate, First company you started, you know. Maybe you mentioned a little bit about what it was. Maybe give the listeners a little more background on that company, what it was doing and kind of what your inspiration was there and how that I guess company evolved into being sold. Allie Danziger For sure. So I started that company when I was 23. I was working in New York for a PR agency that was just a traditional PR. There was no social media or anything like that at the time, and the real estate market crashed six months into my first job at college. And so they laid off half the staff. I assumed that I would be laid off because you know, for last one in first one out is what you normally heard. Chris Hanslik Sure. Allie Danziger That boss took a totally different approach to the 2008 recession, and she kept the junior level employees and the like most executive team, so all the like middle level everything is what is who was laid off. I started looking around, though, because I assumed that in some time it was a real estate firm. It was not going to do very well. Chris Hanslik You saw the writing on the wall. Allie Danziger So I started looking around and saw that most of the PR agencies were starting social media departments, and so I went to my boss, against my parents' suggestion, and said in the next round of layoffs, you can lay me off because I'm actually more interested in the social media side of things and I think that's the future of marketing. And she said why don't you start that at our firm? And so I was 22, six months out of college, or probably eight months out of college at the time, and she gave me an opportunity that completely changed my life. And I was within two months of that conversation, running a P&L, going to my own new business, meetings, hiring a team, all under her guidance and leadership. But I was speaking all over the country like about social media and real estate and how social media was going to really change the way that real estate marketing was done. So I was on all these panels and as I was doing that, I was getting business opportunities, but they were too small for the agency to take on, so I started taking freelance opportunities. On that my boss actually like helped me write the contracts for and learn how to do freelance work, because it was a recession and she couldn't pay us at her employees very much more. And so she said as long as this doesn't get in the way of what you're doing for the firm, like all good. Chris Hanslik What a great it was amazing. Yeah, great opportunity, great person to have in your corner. Allie Danziger And all of that gave me the entrepreneurial bug. Chris Hanslik Yeah. Allie Danziger So after about a year of that experience and learning under her guidance and having all of these different freelance opportunities, I did the math that I think a lot of budding entrepreneurs do, where I said, well, if I had full time, I used to have all my second vacation days. There was no remote work or anything like there is today. I gave the economy like none of that existed, and I did the math that if I had my normal 60 hours a week to do all this freelance work, how much money, how much more money I could possibly make. So quit my job. Gave myself a month living in New York to see. Am I really the type of person who will wake up early and get the work done, or do I need a bot? I didn't know myself well enough. Do I need a bot to help guide me through a normal work day and quickly realize that when I was working for myself, I was much more a bossler and would wake up even earlier and work even harder. And so after that month, came to Houston and started in a great I'm from Houston, so I couldn't really afford to the risky the risk in the New York rent and expenses. So he came to Houston August 2009 and started in a great. We were the first social media PR agency, I think in all of Texas. Chris Hanslik Wow. Allie Danziger And so it was something different. Businesses, just like, believed me talking about social media, more so than companies who are adding social media into their portfolio. The agencies, who have been around for 20, 30 years and we're now starting to talk about social media. We could come in just with a different lens, even though I was 23, 24 years old and just talk about it a little bit differently. So, that was the start of Inaugurate. Over the years we grew, evolved, added other services in, but I never could quite get a handle on digital marketing. It's just not my skill set. Try to hire for that skill set, try to acquire for that skill set and just never could break. We were never the best digital marketing agency. Where I really do believe we were the best PR and social media agency. And so, long story long, in 2017, I ended up meeting my business partner who had the same business idea as I did. He came from a digital marketing background and had already raised money to go buy other agencies and he needed PR support. Just like the digital support, and so I ended up buying the company and it was a really quick process. It was not really the way that I had structured the business from day one. It was not my original goal to sell that business. I thought I'd be ready to integrate my entire life. My kids would work there one day. But then we met, opportunity presented itself. It just made sense. All of a sudden it clicked that like, oh, maybe there's other things that the agency could be, Maybe there's other things that I could do. It ended up being a great outcome for me, for my team, for my clients, the agency as a whole. It just was again like a life changing experience. That wasn't exactly the plan, but sometimes you just have to go with it when those opportunities are presented to you. Chris Hanslik One thing about a plan right is once you write it down and implement it. You take a step or two and it's done Right. But at least there's a kind of a foundation. But yeah, you're right, you never know what the world's going to bring you Right. Yeah, and so that's how that ended up going. Allie Danziger I stayed on board for three and a half years, running our sales and growth and continuing to like blend, the services of PR and social media that we were bringing to the table, as well as the digital SEO website, everything that their experience was All still under the same name of Integrate now and still thriving agency. Chris Hanslik Well, that's one thing. That's kind of cool about the story, I think, is you get quote acquired, but they kept your name. Allie Danziger Yeah, I mean, we had really strong brand loyalty, brand legacy and had worked really hard on that in. Houston. So since the agency was going to have a big presence in Houston, it just made more sense to keep the name. Chris Hanslik Well, let's go back, whether it's Integrate or Ampersand, and share some of the learnings of what it's like to just step out on your own. What are some of the pitfalls you encountered, how you grew from them, what you learned? That kind of helped make the company better as a result of going through that rough kind of starting the business kind of time. Allie Danziger Yeah, and both businesses definitely have lessons. You know lessons learned, mistakes made and moments where you look around and like, what did I just do? I should just go get a job at a company while I'm doing this to myself, making life so hard, but it's also it's so rewarding being able to bring something that you believe into the world. Chris Hanslik Sure. Allie Danziger Sorry, your question was what. Chris Hanslik Some of the lessons learned of like whether it was a you know a misstep or mistake or God. I wish I'd have known that, but I only knew that now when I started right. So just kind of thinking through every entrepreneur I know is like you know, getting it off the ground is just. Sometimes you don't even know what you don't know, right. Allie Danziger But so one one thing that I think is a lesson learned, and something that I have done pretty well, I believe, is just sometimes you just have to get started. While there is research and work that has to be done, sometimes you just have to start testing, start learning, see if there's, even if you don't know what the product is, see if there's product market fit, if anybody cares, because if you wait until it's perfect, if you wait till you have the best website to launch or you have, you know, the product completely defined or the pricing model completely defined. You may never do it, and then somebody else will and you'll be kicking yourself later. So that's something that may be too fast, but I have tried to do that and give other entrepreneurs that same guidance, with ampersand. I did not do enough market research. When I got started, I was very passionate about what we were doing still am and I believe that this needed to be in the market, but I didn't look around to see why it isn't in the market. Chris Hanslik Okay, because it doesn't, and it's again. Allie Danziger It still does not exist. There's no training out there that teaches young professionals how to be grown-ups, and there's just in. It's still an issue with who's the stakeholder, who's gonna pay for that, and I think there's other parties that have maybe tried and also couldn't find that same answer, and I didn't do enough of that research in the beginning to really understand. How do colleges actually work with their students? What do they actually care about at the end of the day, even though they say all these things, what's their real motivation? Who's really paying their dollars? Right and and what a distruggles that they're one of the problems they're trying to solve for. And then same thing on the workforce side, like why doesn't this exist? Where are the engagement issues, where the employee issues, where the manager struggles and Not just my own biases, and not that, like I did talk to 200 business owners before launching this, but you know Stepping outside of my bubble, stepping outside of my community to get their input, just to really understand what else exists. That's a mistake that I certainly made, and then also your team. You have to really think diligently. Think about who you're adding. Chris Hanslik Both to your cap table right, for sure, big time, and. Allie Danziger To your founding team to make sure that not just for the problem that you're trying to solve in that moment today, but also where you want the company to go. What do you, what are you going to need at the table? Advisory boards can be. We're really helpful for me in that to add some expertise where I couldn't afford to hire and I Couldn't fundraise from these different verticals or industries, so that that is a way that I kind of solved that a little bit. But being really careful about who you're hitting equity to is a big lesson learned for sure, this experience For sure, right. Like you need the money or you need the support until you take it. But next time around I will be much more diligent and listen to all of the tales that are out there and like why there's a reason people say don't raise Money from friends and family. There's a reason why they don't, you know, work with family or people you know intimately. So all those things have a reason. Chris Hanslik Yeah, they absolutely do. We tell clients all the time just before you bring on Partners. Make sure you know who that is, whether it's friends and family or someone else. Soon as you bring them in, you can't really get rid of them absent writing a check, so it can be an expensive lesson to learn. Allie Danziger Yeah, and for us everything luckily worked out in the end, but it caused extra heartache or work along the way, right. Chris Hanslik So let's talk a little bit about just managing through Uncertainty, whether that be economic times, like we've seen that here, you know, obviously in the recent times, with the kind of ups and downs in the market and what's going on, and other types of just, you know, uncertainty as you're starting and running a business. Yeah, how do you manage through that? What are some of the maybe things you've learned that you could pass on and the things that have helped you keep the both of these businesses Going and thriving? Allie Danziger Yeah. So on a personal level I got this advice once years ago from someone in my PO forum was to Work on your own self-care in times of not stress, so that when you are stressed there, your natural habits. So there are times over the past ten years or so that I've looked around and realized that things are kind of slow and, instead of trust me, I've added chaos in those moments too, because I'm bored but, I, also try to Up my meditation, increase my water, you know like work out more, take the time with my kids or build good habits with them, so that because I know that it's all, it's only a season and it's only gonna last a few months and then something else is gonna get crazy. And so, as long as I like have that foundation, it helps me again with the reading different business books or self-help books or listening to different podcasts, so that it's somewhere in my brain there when I need it most like that is something that has really helped me Again throughout the past decade, probably okay. And then professionally, I think you know when having some of these having many difficult decisions or having tough conversations with employees I go back to a lot of Brene Brown's work of kind of what did she say? Hopefully you can edit this out. Okay empathy vulnerability, but then also honesty is kind like being yes front with your employees, with your family members, with your friends, about the things that you are struggling with or frustrated with them, about being Clearness is clear. As long as we're up front with them about your expectations and you're super clear with them and then confirm One, two, three times that you are clear with them, that, I think, is something that has helped me really Significantly. Again, the vulnerability when you're not having that crisis moment or that moment where you are in stress mode, so that they have that trusting relationship with you and know that you are going to be honest with them and that you have your their best interest in heart. That's when I think you've built that foundation in a relationship, whether that's a client, an investor, a customer, an employee. You're then able to use that foundation to get through the hard times together. Chris Hanslik That's good stuff, I mean. I Couldn't agree more. I think there's lots of good learning that Brene offers to businesses, business owners, employees as well as personal. But to me fundamentally it's recognizing. It's a relationship at work no different than your personal relationship. So that is being honest, being clear. Everyone benefits from that, even when it's bad news because you may be dealing with an employee that, as times evolved, is no longer a good fit for either your company in there. They're gonna be happier somewhere else. But they're only gonna realize that if you have the honest conversations in a respectful way and then everybody wins, everybody can move on. Allie Danziger One of the things we teach in our training to early career professionals because, again, a lot of people don't teach this to someone right out of school is what that dynamic between a manager and employee really is. And like they complain about micromanaging. Why are they micromanaging? Why is this employee, why is your manager or this employer talking to you this way and what kind of questions do you need to ask to clear the air, to ask for follow, ask for more information and really make sure that everyone's clear on expectations. And so, since what we do, we're not always in touch with the managers, we put a lot of that on this on the early career professional, and also teach them hey, your boss's job is to make is to make you look good Like they. They need you to be looking good for them to succeed, like because they've got a boss that they have to answer to. And so explaining that dynamic also helps an entry level employer and intern go into those types of conversations with the manager, which is a clear understanding of why they're having that conversation. And so I think more of that training and just teaching the impact to the young professionals helps to also set up that trusting relationship in a two way. In a two way relationship so that again, when things get tough or you know there's uncertainty or something that has to happen, the young professional understands it a little bit more, because it's a stressful moment. You're not necessarily listening to every single word Someone's saying to you in that stressful conversation, but again, when things are good it's similar to, like what I said, I do personally taking the time to do that, some of that training and foundation laying. Chris Hanslik That's good. So I guess, thinking about, I want to ask what are some of the things that that maybe that you do, that you become part of the teaching that ampersand now offers about how to go about building relationships internally or externally with stakeholders or customers. So what are some of the tips that you've offered, you know in the past or you're now offering through ampersand on that? Allie Danziger So again, to build the. It's hard. In a zoom world we can't have as many in-person relationships. It's so much more effective Three times as many meetings in a day that I could have four years ago. So I get a lot done but I'm not building those same type of super important relationships that I know will stay with us me far after that business relationship is over. So some of the ways I like to do it is by taking time just for relationship building, knowing that not everyone's going to put the same emphasis or like take the same time for that, but like I've sent gift cards Starbucks gift cards and said, hey, I'm buying you a coffee, can we hop on zoom for 15 minutes? I also take really extensive notes of people's, the details that they say at the beginning of the meeting, like your five daughters and you know your five girls and two of them are 21 and going to college and like all that stuff. I make note of that so that I can remember it later and bring it up in the next conversation. I use a tool called Otter that records all of my conversations. Then he emails me a transcript following the zoom call or teams call or whatever, and so that entire transcript is then saved in each customer hub spot file, and so it allows me then to go back to my cheat sheet. Chris Hanslik Yeah, but everyone's got it right. You can't keep it all in your head. Allie Danziger Right, and it lets me go back in, you know, in my notes, two minutes before the meeting to say, oh yeah, ask him about his vacation or if he just got she just got done with an MBA program. Make sure you follow up on that and I'll highlight those notes so that I can easily find them later. And again, it's like my cheat sheet, but it helps to build more meaningful relationships, because that just speaks to the trusting relationship that we have. Even though I'm using technology to do it, it helps. Chris Hanslik I think the beauty of that is breaking down the barrier for people, right, cause people probably that don't know that about you, now they do If they listen to this. It's okay, they know, but but they may think, god, alice, just got this great memory. She remembers everything and it's like no, I'm intentional about it. I use tools to help me be intentional and they're look, you can record it, but if you don't go look at it afterwards, there's no value in that. So you're diligent about the follow-up, and to me, that's the learning. Use tools around you to help you be better and be diligent about the follow-up. All right, I'll give you another tool, all right. Allie Danziger So Microsoft Gmail. They all have it like a, the snooze tool. You know, if you've seen it. Chris Hanslik And so I will have my. Allie Danziger I go to bed every night with a clean inbox, not one email In my inbox, and so then I'll have the email come back to me at the time that I need to respond to it or at a time that I want to follow up on it. So if you tell me I'm not follow up with me, you know, mid-september I'm really busy, I'm traveling here. I will actually snooze that email to come back to me September 15th so that on that day I can reply back to you and say hey hope your trip was great. Hope your summer's been wonderful. Let's set up that call and people always seem to be like wow, thanks so much for staying on top of this. I really appreciate it and it's like no, we use it Like you have the same tool on your computer too. Chris Hanslik Oh, that's right, it's been super. Allie Danziger I've been using that for years, even when you had to pay for the tool. Now it's free and standard and all of these different email. Chris Hanslik Okay, I love it. No, I mean again. I think if you're in it, it's obviously helped you be successful as you had been, but if you're teaching that to these young professionals, oh my gosh, what value, yeah, all these kinds of cheat sheets when to stand in a happy hour. What do you? Allie Danziger say, if someone offers you a third drink and you actually don't want the third drink, but you wanna stay there and you wanna stay engaged in conversation. All kinds of good things, all kinds of stuff. Chris Hanslik I mean, as you're talking, I'm thinking. I cannot believe that no one's thought of this before now, because it is so obviously the frustration inside a company is dealing with young professionals that don't know and they expect them to know, and all it does has been years and years of just pent up frustration, year after year, right, and how Pentefaction you've got manager. Allie Danziger There's so much out there for, like managers, turnover, they leave, and so much of it goes back to this frustration that they have to teach young professionals the same things over and over again. And, frankly, in this environment where so many people are hybrid and not in the office together, young professionals are learning less skills than they were by osmosis before. It used to be that, like I'm sitting at my desk, I see what's happening around me and I'm learning it even when I'm doing my work. Or like my person sitting next to me in the cube makes 5,000 copies instead of 50, comes over and's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this and we problem solved it together. Or like they make the decision of what to do, but still they're commiserating with their colleagues that they can't do them, and then they either handle it the right way or they don't, and I, as the person sitting next to them, see the outcome of that, and so I learned that lesson. If I ever make 5,000 copies again or do something, here's how I handle it. But no one's going to slap and saying, oh my gosh, I just made this huge mistake. Here's how I handled it. What do you guys think? No, there's just not no way that psychology works. Like we're not gonna do that, and so, because of that, every individual has learned every single lesson every time, which makes the managers even more frustrated than they were before. Chris Hanslik I mean, there's just so much loss in the hybrid world of learning social norms and every office has them right, Just in general, but every office has that and you're right before the work from home in hybrid, you were in the office and you hopefully got to train some, but then you just, yeah, by existing, you just figured it out. So let's talk a little bit about you as a leader. How would you describe kind of your leadership style? How has that evolved since starting your own company at 23? Allie Danziger Yeah, so at 23, I had I mean, I had a hard time transitioning into that leadership role. as you can imagine, I'm sure I'm 23 year old does and that's actually how Ampersand's ideas all started is I never felt comfortable at first hiring people older than me, so I was only hiring interns and people right out of college or people within my network in those early days, because I just didn't have the confidence to lead people much older than me. So that became part of our culture of hiring interns and intro level employees. But anyways, I at first I really wanted to be my employees friend. Chris Hanslik But it's natural. Allie Danziger Yeah, and it took a while for me to understand that they didn't want to be my friend either I didn't really want to be their friend and they didn't want to be my friend and there's benefit to that separation of the relationship. But I think at first I was really trying to have this mentality of like we're all in it together. Let's, you know, get in the foxhole and solve these problems as a whole team. I didn't believe in titles and structure and there's a reason that you know this has existed for however many decades or hundreds of years, so that was original and, as I mentioned about the last decade, or so I started doing more of that professional development. It started with Patrick Linciani you know first book, which I think is always like very easy business read, written in a fiction type of style, just to understand the ways to company more companies are run, because I've only seen one for about a year before I started my own company. To then get my own, find my own self as a leader, and I take a very friendly tone still as a leader, but I'm often quiet in meetings and let other people talk and hear the perspective of others, and then like to gather people around me to help solve problems together. I'm a visionary in the whole rocket fuel EOS model, so I move very fast and I like to. I'm a salesperson by nature, so like to sell, get people on board for my ideas and then again like give them the power on autonomy, bring the right people to the table to then go do what needs to be done. And I'm in a situation right now where my company was just acquired and I'm coming into a new company and coming into a new team and kind of finding my way as a leader, as a lot of new people are in my team now that have been in other people's leadership for a while. And so that's what I'm doing is I'm trying to really just hear what is everyone's vision for this and then put it all together and then strongly communicate what my vision is and what the vision of this department will be, our vertical will be, and then get the right people on the bus and the right seats so that we can all do it. Chris Hanslik Very good, very good. So any mentors along the way that kind of helped you as you grown as an entrepreneur and a leader. Allie Danziger Yeah, so I mean my parents, for sure they have just been mentors in the sense of just encouraging me to fly as big and as high as the world will take me. Chris Hanslik I love it. Allie Danziger Which I think is really important. Eo has, as a whole, been just an incredible organization for me to be a part of, to not just have my husband to talk to about some of these business struggles, but to collectively like, use a group around me of mentors and people who have been in similar situations or not, but at least understand what I'm going through as a founder and as a leader. And then I've had an incredible advice in this company. I've had an incredible advisory board of leaders in different industries who have mentored me in different ways, whether that's fintech or hiring employees or fundraising, and so there are a little bit more vertical and specific into specific things that I needed to solve for technology. When it's like, okay, I'm a service provider, as a PR agency owner, I'm building a product through software and have to figure out self pricing, I have no idea where I'm starting and so, yeah, getting the right people there has been really helpful. Chris Hanslik I think that surrounding yourself with the right people, especially in the areas that you aren't strong in, is maybe the single best thing. Anyone out there that's wanting to do what you've done now twice can do. Allie Danziger Absolutely, there's no way. And again, when I was young, I had this mentality that I needed to figure it all out myself and I had everything and I was just focused on getting the to-do list done every day. And now it's much more about okay, really, all I have is ideas and vision and I know how to get people excited about my ideas and vision. And then I need to bring the right people so that I'm making the right decisions at the right times and, yeah, putting the right people in those seats. Chris Hanslik So one or two things with the listeners out here that you would say if you're thinking about stepping out or you just kind of started a new business, here's one or two things that I would implore you to do or consider. Allie Danziger So first is just to do it, Just to start with a messy pilot. Start with an Excel spreadsheet, a Word document. You do not need a business plan. Just like start talking about it, socializing it and testing it as quickly as possible. You'll get opinions from every single person that you tell the idea to, and most of them will be terrible opinions that you should just bucket away into like an Evernote document or something. Keep track of them because you might need it later. But just start talking about it. Don't wait till it's perfect, don't wait till it's fully fleshed out, and each time you talk about it, your pitch or your idea will change a little bit, and that's okay. That's what's supposed to happen, so that you get what it's supposed to be out there. So that's one. And then the second is, as we were just talking, to surround yourself with people, expand your network. Go to take advantage of the events around Houston. There's so many around Houston. Every city, but like every city is trying to bring together innovators, and so those are great places to go to. Again, like start networking the idea, start meeting new people. You never know who you're going to run into, especially if you get out there and talk about it and if you are more of an introvert and not ready, not if you're not comfortable in that environment. Do it through Zoom, do it through one-on-one, so you can have a little bit of a script or notes in front of you to practice on and build up your confidence. Chris Hanslik Gotcha and the snooze feature on email. Allie Danziger That one, I mean if Gmail ever got rid of the snooze feature, it would take away all of my productivity. I have no idea what I would do. Chris Hanslik I love it Alright. So, on the personal side, what was your first job? Allie Danziger I worked at a kid's bookstore when I turned 16 and, yeah, I worked like the checkout. It was a very small mom-and-pop store and then I I guess my first part of entrepreneurship actually started there, where I started running their birthday parties. So I saw kind of an opportunity that people were coming in for presents all the time and I heard about all the different parties that people were doing and so we started doing birthday parties where I would dress up as like a princess or a dinosaur or whatever. So we would read a couple of stories then we would do cake and arts activity, and then the party would be over and the party favorite was a book, and so it was like really a great thing for the story. Chris Hanslik That's awesome. I love it so obviously from Houston, native Houstonian Tex-Mex or barbecue, what do you prefer? Allie Danziger Oh, good Tex-Mex, bad Tex-Mex. Chris Hanslik Okay, okay, and I'm gonna put you on a spot to name any names on the good or bad list. But good, tex-mex, okay. Favorite type of wine. Allie Danziger Like type or brand Saviag Blanc in the summer and Pinot Noir in the winter. My taste buds actually change when the season changes. Chris Hanslik Okay, so what's your favorite? Savi B. Allie Danziger For both. I just like duck horn. Okay, I used to belong, or I belonged to the club out there and, yeah, it shows up at my house. Chris Hanslik so that helps. That helps. Well, I read how you drank through your wine fridge during COVID. So we did. Yes, that is true, but still like the basics. Allie Danziger My husband traveled to San Francisco for seven years back and forth, and so we got to go a lot of different ways. Chris Hanslik Gotcha okay. Last question if you could do a 30-day sabbatical, where would you go and what would you do? Allie Danziger In my current stage of life with my kids, it would be Colorado. Chris Hanslik Okay. Allie Danziger So we've been fortunate to do that a little bit. Not a sabbatical, we're not working, but I love it there. In the summer we go to a small town outside of Breckenridge that has no more than a thousand people that live there and we can bike, we can boat, we can hike, everything, yoga, all the things, and I am just a much happier person there, as is my husband and my kids. Chris Hanslik That's great. Allie Danziger I would say that Maybe like later, when I have older kids, I would say summer much more fabulous, like Spain or South America. Chris Hanslik Right, but for now, that's it. Okay, that's good. That's good. We take you where you are Great. So, allie, this has been amazing. Thank you for taking the time sharing your story. What an impressive career you've had so far. I know it's only going to get better. Allie Danziger Thank you so much. This was fun. I appreciate the time.

Ever felt that choking burnout at work? That desolate feeling of exhaustion that seems to suck away all your energy, making the simplest tasks feel like a mountain? This is the episode you need. We've taken a deep dive into understanding burnout, investigating the roots of these emotions and how they manifest in our workplaces. With insights from Brene' Brown's book, "Atlas of the Heart", we'll guide you to recognize the signs of burnout and the importance of naming our emotions to provide the necessary support for ourselves and others.Are you having a hard time managing expectations in your workplace? Not to worry. We've got tips on how to tackle this. We dive into the concept of situational leadership and its role in setting workplace expectations. With our in-depth analysis, you'll understand the varying development levels of employees and how different levels of support and direction from managers can make a significant difference. We also emphasize the power of connection in preventing burnout and the courage it takes to be vulnerable when setting expectations.Lastly, we untangle the complex web of emotions that can lead to burnout when your efforts don't quite meet your expectations. We address the feelings of discouragement, resignation, perfectionism, as well as the impact of connection and disconnection. We candidly discuss how these emotions, if not carefully managed, can lead down a path to burnout. Learn how to express and manage these emotions, understand the role of shame in perfectionism, and how discussing connection and disconnection can foster a safer, burnout-free workplace. Trust us when we say, this is an episode you can't afford to miss - it's packed with wisdom and practical advice to save you from spiraling into burnout.Laughter, Love, and Blessings,HeatherResources and links mentioned in this episode:Psychology Today articleAtlas of the Heart - Brene Brown Ph.D.Join the conversation on SubstackSupport the show

In this episode, Sarah details Brene Brown's latest book "Atlas of the Heart: Mapping Meaningful Connection and the Language of Human Experience". In this book Brene highlights 87 emotions, explaining what these emotions truly mean and gives advice on what we can do to experience these emotions in the healthiest way possible. Learn ways to minimize worry and learn techniques for supporting your sense of self-worth. And since it is Brene Brown, there of course is wonderful advice about vulnerability and feelings of shame. Learn how to feel more at peace by leaning into your emotions in a way that leaves you feeling better instead of worse.   Brene Brown's List of 87 Human EmotionsSarah Vallely's Chart of 300 EmotionsTSD Mindfulness Virtual Meditation Center FREE monthly meditation group meets the third Saturday of each month at 10:00 AM New York Time/3:00 PM London Time. Saturdays, August 19, September 16, October 21 etc. Register at https://www.tsdmind.org/groupOnline Book Club discussion TBA.Important links:TSD Mindfulness Virtual Meditation Center https://www.tsdmind.orgSarah's Mindfulness Coaching website: https://www.sarahvallely.comThe Aware Mind on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/TSD_Mindfulness/This episode is a meditation for beginners, and mindfulness for beginners resource. Intermediate and advanced meditators will also benefit. The Aware Mind produces content that supports stress reduction, anxiety relief, better concentration and focus, and trauma healing.The Aware Mind is produced by TSD Mindfulness, a virtual meditation center, offering mindfulness classes, certifications and private coaching for people with past trauma, anxiety and depression disorders, business leaders, and people who work in the helping professions (i.e. counselors, healers and yoga and meditation teachers).

Have you ever felt paralyzed by the fear of perfection as an entrepreneur? I sure have. Let me share a story—it starts with my husband's truck repair, but hang with me. This simple mechanic's tale opened my eyes to the crippling fear of perfectionism that I grappled with while launching my business. The dread of making mistakes or being judged can be debilitating, but with time and influence from authors like Brene' Brown, I realized that vulnerability and the ability to laugh at oneself could be our greatest strengths.Join us to create InstaStory Strategies to support building deeper relationships and selling in this micro-focused Program here. Share this episode and tag me @itscrissyconner

Description: This SHINE podcast interview is with my friend, colleague, and Chief People Officer Siminia Simion.  In this interview, Siminia and I speak about a few very important themes. First we speak about how we can increase our conscious “inner game” skills to be skillful in asking for what we desire and negotiate anything.  We talk about how we can embody skills of empathy and humility to be compassionate leaders during hiring and layoffs.  I use a powerful coaching framework to guide Siminia in how to ask for more in a future negotiation.  Lastly, we share important topics of what you can negotiate for in the initial interview and offer stages of a professional role. This inspiring episode will empower you to own your worth, identify and ask for the tangible and intangible needs you deserve.  Episode Links: Simina Simion Ask for More Book by Alexandra Carter How to Ask for a Raise SHINE Links: Thank you for listening. Want to build a high trust, innovative, and inclusive culture at work? Sign up for our newsletter and get the free handout and be alerted to more inspiring Shine episodes  Building Trust Free Gift Carley Links: LinkedIn Consultation Call with Carley Book Carley for Speaking Leading from Wholeness Learning & Developmen Carley's Book  Executive Coaching with Carley   Well Being Resources:  Inner Game Meditations Inner Game Leadership Assessment   Social:  LinkedIn  Instagram Website  Shine Podcast Page    Imperfect Shownotes Hi, welcome to the shine podcast. My name is Carley Hauck. I'm your host, this is the fifth season of the shine podcast. I started the shine podcast as a way of doing research for my book on conscious leadership in business. And you will find interviews with scientists, researchers and business leaders on the intersection of conscious inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices. My book debuted in 2021 Shine ignite your inner game of conscious leadership and was voted one of the best books to read in 2022. By mindful magazine, I facilitate two episodes a month of the shine podcast.    And before I tell you about the topic for today, please go over to Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast carrier and hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any future episodes. The focus of this season is on the essentials for wellbeing. And that encompasses the intersection of our personal well being the collective well being of our workplace, and how that fosters and nurtures the planet's well being they are all connected. I focus on well being this season, because I really want to crack the code and inspire folks to prioritize their individual well being and therefore that will transcend into the collective and the planet's well being.    And I have developed a inner game leadership assessment that I gave out to 100 different leaders last year. And the leadership assessment is based on the framework of the inner game, which is what we're cultivating on the inside to be conscious leaders. And it shows up on the outside when we cultivated the certain qualities. And two of the nine leadership competencies that were lowest from the sample of 100 leaders were psychological and physical well being. Therefore, that is why we are focusing on well being and if you're curious about where your strengths and gaps are, around the qualities to become a conscious leader, you can take the assessment and find out your score for free. I recently opened to the assessment tool to the public and the link will be in the show notes.    Now on to our episode. I am so excited to have this conversation about how to ask for more. And really wonderful practical tips for negotiation. Samina. Thank you so much for being here. Arlie thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you today. Well introduce yourself to all of these wonderful listeners.   So my name is Amina I, I am a mom, I'm a wife. I am a people leader in the tech world. And I'm also an immigrant. And I came to this country about 13 years ago with big dreams and a passion to add value. And here I am today hopefully being hopeful that I've learned a lot and I grew a lot as a person and as a leader.   Thank you and what country did you emigrate from?   I was born in Romania.   Mm hmm. Lovely. Well, we connected because of the people tech Partners Group that I have been kind of Yeah, just immersed in the last year so many incredible people leaders in that group. And then I also found out that you were good friends with an pal who is another shining light leader in my life. So I'm again just really happy that we've been able to foster this new connection and relationship and I am going to just tee up the podcast a bit so folks know what we're going to be talking about.    So Samina and I are going to speak about some of her inner game conscious leadership qualities that have supported her to be the incredible chief people officer that she is. And we're going to talk a little bit more about what has been challenging for her as a CPO, especially given the current economy and the future of work climate. And then we're going to run through a negotiation conversation, that will be me being the coach. It's one of the wonderful hats that I wear. And then really working through a framework that is going to be something that you can apply to yourself, or to support somebody else as they're trying to figure out their negotiation terms for a new role. Or frankly, it could even be how do you negotiate buying a new house or car or a conversation with your partner? I mean, it's all clickable.    And then we're going to talk about what kinds of things can we negotiate for with roles at the beginning and even you know, when the offer has been given? And specifically, what should female executives be asking for Samina is also going to share some tips. And then at the very end, I will record this coaching framework that Sumeet and I are going to roleplay together so it's packed, it's going to be so great. And let's go ahead and start. So the intersection of this podcast really talks about conscious leadership, high performing teams awareness practices, Samina, I know you're a bit familiar with the framework of conscious leadership that I've developed, there's nine different qualities. And you have read my book. So what leadership quality do you feel is your strongest and which one is an opportunity for growth?   Great question. And I feel that resilience is one of my strongest qualities. And probably the second after that is empathy. And the third is humility. But I'll talk about resilience a little bit more. Yeah, it started from, you know, early age, when I realized that I needed to be courageous in order to grow. And I took a few steps, including the one to relocate into a completely new country and start from scratch my career, my community, and realized very early on, that is not always a smooth sailing. And you're going to experience turbulences, and I'm a big fan of Brene, brown, and I like to, to share this point of view with folks that I'm coaching and folks that I work with, you're not going to experience growth, if you're afraid of embracing the suck. And in order to experience that growth, it's it's worth knowing when it's too early, to move away from a situation. I'm a big believer, especially as a female executive, that there are different rules around when executives are departing, departing a company and a role. Ideally, you're never running away, when it's hard. Ideally, you, you stick to it, and you try to solve the problems that you're seeing in front of you and continue to add your value in terms. In times of turbulence, I think that's one of my main qualities. And the thing that helped me experience the most growth in my career, you're probably seen by looking at my profile that I like staying for a long period of time, especially in tech that rarely, a lot of people are staying for five, six years, I've experienced that at least once and experienced a couple of three years Steens in you, especially at a startup, you see a lot of changes. And those are great opportunities to learn and understand how a business is evolving and how you are evolving as a leader.    So that I would say that that's probably my my, my main superpower. And the second one that I care deeply about as a people leader and as a leader, as an as a leader in general is empathy is really trying to understand how others are feeling and what is their perspective, to be able to craft programs, Paulus's interventions that make sense, and they don't feel disconnected from the reality. The third one that I think it's a non negotiable, it's humility. It's it's humbleness, and humility. Knowing that you can do it all you it really takes a village to build something exceptional.    And you need to have the strength and self awareness to realize that you cannot be good at everything. And it's okay and highly recommended to hire and build teams around you with people who have the qualities that you don't or they're passionate about the things that you might be passionate but you might not have the superpowers to do them really, really well.    And that's what I've no Based on how I conduct myself and how I how I like to continue my path as a leader, thank you. To summarize, even though you did it so well yourself, out of the nine different ones, you have listed resilience, which the way you're describing it. And the way that I actually talked about in the book is a growth mindset. You know, how is this challenge for me? How is it a gift, what am I going to learn from it, and then empathy and humility and humility to your point is really about asking for support, you know, acknowledging your vulnerability that you don't know everything, and then asking people to come in and join you and, and help delegate those things that you don't know, so that you empower other people to step in and create this incredible culture. Thank you.   What about one that is an opportunity for growth, right now, I've thought about this for quite some time, and an opportunity for growth is carving out time, for my well being, there is a tendency to constantly prove the world that you can do more faster, better, smarter, but what I've learned on my own by experiencing, you know, sometimes challenging times is that if you don't recharge your batteries, you're not gonna go too far, I have a tendency to jump all in. And I had a tendency to really want to see results immediately prove value, as soon as possible. But what I've learned through hard lessons is that you can't control it all.    And even if you dedicate yourself 150%, to something, there are so many variables at play, there is no guarantee that just by working hard and doing all the right things, and being always on something that's gonna be successful. As we evolve and grow as human beings, our identity is becoming a well rounded identity, you're not only the professional who works in tech, you're the man who you know, educates and takes care of other human being and how they're going to behave in this world, you're a partner to someone you are a daughter, into someone, a member of the community, there are so many opportunities to give back and add value, the way you see yourself and define yourself should not come only from one angle.    So with that in mind, while I will always want to excel in what I do, I'm also becoming more and more aware of the multiple roles that I'm assuming in this world and how I'm showing up in all of them. Because it has to be a balance, it has to be a work life integration, it has to be moments when you give more on one side, and when you give more on the other side, depending on what's happening in life. And that's what I'm trying to transition into and feel good about the fact that you're not always going to be your best self or on your best foot on on your top game, depending on what's happening in life. And that's okay.   I hear you are nourishing the well. So that you have what you need to then bring your best is a growth opportunity. And so that actually goes into the next question that I was going to ask that I know you and I have talked about, you know, off the record, which is one of the bigger challenges I think that people like yourself in your role have been navigating with the current economy and future of work is there have been a lot of layoffs. And so, being that you're a leader that leads from love that has a lot of empathy.    How have you navigated in your career, how to really send people off with care and compassion, because I've talked to lots of folks and leaders and people that have been the ones that have, you know, delivered it and have been on the receiving end, and it's typically not done with a lot of consciousness, but I know that you do it differently. So share a little more on that. How are you taking care of yourself and then being able to take care of these people in the most graceful kind way that you can under the circumstances, right?    Yeah, no, and I'll start with the beginning. As a leader, you always join the company thinking about how the company is going to grow, how to build the businesses gonna succeed, how the great people you have on board are going to grow in their careers and grow as as professionals and as human beings and Then something happens. And it, especially in the last few months, or in the last few years, if we think about the pandemic, where things are not going, according to the plan, no matter how hard everyone is trying, the economy is turbulent there are headwinds in the market. And sometimes you need to make very hard decisions.    And some of those hard decisions involve cutting people cutting jobs. And throughout my career, and I've been doing HR for more than 15 years internationally. In Europe, in the US, I work with companies based in in Asia, I found that no matter how much exposure to situations like this, you have as a people leader, if you lead from a point of love, and care and empathy, it's going to be very hard to not be emotionally impacted by something like this. I remember the first layoff that I had to do in the US it's happening, at least in my career, it happened more often after I relocated to the US, and I started to be a people leader. And I remember thinking about how these people have houses, they need to pay for the houses, they have children, they have family members, they need to take care of, they need to put food on the food on the table, they need to pay their bills, and I was thinking, wow, losing your job is one of the most dramatic, traumatic experiences someone can have.    And the fact that the company is not growing fast enough, or it doesn't optimize stores profitability fast enough, or it needs to look better on paper for whatever is going to happen next, it doesn't make the impact of these decisions, less stressful for the people on the receiving end. So as a people leader, I've always thought about if I would be in these people's shoes, and by the way it can happen at any point in anyone's careers, what would be my preference in how I would like to be treated? What will mean to me that I'm being laid off with respect, where I still keep at least some of my self esteem, that I've built throughout the years in my career, in what will help me land in the best possible way on my feet, right?    And I thought about it. And I talked to people that was questions, who were let go senior professionals, folks in the beginning of their careers. And I looked at the data on how much savings people have in the US if something like this happens. And the reality is that not a lot of people have a lot of savings to count on. And I really try to think about a couple of things, one, from an economical perspective, what is a decent package that's going to help people land on their feet, given that it takes between three to five months to find a job.    Yet, it seems like in Dec is around three months, even now with distributed market, because a lot of new jobs are being created. So that's one variable that went into the model. The second one was one, the economical terms are being approved. And there is some, you know, safety net for at least two or three months, and there is health insurance on the table as well. Because unfortunately, America is a country that does not offer that by default, and you have to pay for it. And it's quite expensive. Then I went into how do we communicate? How do we communicate with care with empathy? How do we make sure that everyone feels that they're still respected on their way out, even though we need to share some pretty terrible news?    How can we make sure we partner with the employees who are being terminated to equip them with the skills that they need to apply for unemployment to revamp their resumes to prep for the interview, it's really hard to have your confidence that after being laid off, and we're talking in this market about multiple rounds of layoffs, I have friends and people who are very close to me and my family who got laid off multiple times, once in COVID, one or two times now, that takes a toll on self esteem, how you're showing up in the world. Let's not even go to negotiating an offer you're hoping to get over all you can even think about asking for more optimizing for the best possible result. Totally.    I'm always thinking about one, give them the package that it's going to provide a softer landing, landing to make sure they have health insurance. Three, make sure you communicate with empathy and care for prep them for what they need to do ideally in the first week or month after a layoff make sure people are equipped on how to get their benefits back on employment, how to claim Cobra and then really help rebuild that confidence by looking at the resumes the LinkedIn profile, practicing interviewing, introduced introducing people of two companies looking for great talent so that everyone can, as quickly as possible get back on their feet. It's a traumatic experience. And if as leaders, we don't do it with a lot of care, it's going to backfire. And it's not going to help one the company is not going to help the brand is not going to help help the leaders attract new team members, when when the market gets better, is not going to help the society in general,   To bring myself into the mix of this, I started interviewing and applying for internal director and VP roles and learning and development in 2020. And it is now 2023, there were two offers and 2020. They were rescinded because of layoffs. So for me being that I'm still in it, still interviewing, still applying some of what I've experienced is that there are 1000 people to the one role that I'm applying for, I had a job tell me an employer rather tell me that they had 4000 plus 4000 people applied to the role that I applied for.    And so, you know, depending on your industry, because there's not a lot of learning and development people even though they are so we need to equip leaders with the right tools to lead the organization. But it, it's trying, so I, you know, I can definitely relate, and I think some of your tips are really helpful. So let's move into our negotiation conversation. Let's pretend that you are getting ready to have a conversation because you've been given an offer. And I'm going to wear the hat of coach and this is a framework that you can apply to any negotiation that you're having. But I'm just gonna tee it up. So Samina, it's so great to see you. I'm so excited for you that you have this new offer that you're considering. And tell me a little bit about the context, what is the offer? What do you feel excited about? And then we'll go from there.   I'm very excited about the offer that I just received, because it's for a company that solves hard problems. I see the signs of really healthy culture. It seems that a company is financially stable, especially in this market, and they have enough runway. And it feels like there is product market fit and the company can continue to grow.    If if they execute according to the plan. So that excites me quite a bit because that means we can create more jobs, we can really scale or what we're offering to the market here in the US, potentially internationally. It's really creating the foundation for building something that is intentional, and it can scale intentionally, and really create that force multiplier in delivering business results. So that's what excites me. I'm also excited about the terms of the offer.   Let me let me just paraphrase quickly what I heard you say. So I hear that you're very excited about this offer for a few reasons. One, it's a company that is solving hard problems. And I hear that that is really motivating for you you want to work for a purpose driven organization, I also hear that there is a healthy culture on the inside. So the leaders that are leading it are conscious, and you want to work with that type of leadership, and be able to really contribute. I also hear that they have a runway that allows them to be able to be secure, you know, financially stable in this economy in this market. And therefore you can scale intentionally did I miss anything you did not spot on.   And you were about to elaborate a little bit more something else you feel excited about tell me and I feel excited about the economics of the offer because I find them being fair. And I'm saying fair for a reason. I care deeply about fair. Of course I care about optimizing a really good offer and really good terms but as a people leader, I'm also keeping an eye on internal equity among peers, making sure that you know while is the right type of offer for the valid right I bring it also that doesn't, you know break the stability internally because that's that's another problem then that can be created and It's pretty painful to solve for once it's there.    So I'm looking at a lot of the things and while you know the monetary aspect is important, and don't get me wrong is very important. And life is expensive right now, there are other elements of an offer that make it an absolute no brainer.  What I'm hearing is there's tangible needs, and there's intangible needs that would make this a yes. Like an absolute Yes. So what do you need that's tangible? And what do you need? It's intangible.   I think from a tangible perspective, you need to make sure that you're fairly compensated, you're compensated at the market. And now here, hopefully, it's going to be an easier conversation in the next few years, because of the pay Transparency Act. Really good progress, really good momentum is not a black box anymore. When you start applying and interviewing with companies, you kind of know, you know, where they are, what are the bands, so you know, is it for me, or if it's, or it's not, for me, for example, if you're in California, and you interview for a leadership role, and they pay you 100k, you're probably going to say this is not for me, I cannot afford to leave here, right? So that that simplifies the conversation quite a bit.    Now, every company is different, every company has a different philosophy in terms of pay, some companies are going to pay your 50th percentile, others are going to pay your 75th percentile, others are going to be more aggressive on the variable, others on the on the base, it different flavors, right. But at the end of the day, if it's fair, if it's market for the role, how much funding they have, if they're a private company, how much ARR they have done all of that, you kind of know where you are, and what ballpark.    Now the non tangible things are very important when it comes to the new reality after COVID. What kind of life do we want to have as people and as professionals? What is more valuable to me? Or what is the environment that really works for my life? And how I want to craft my life? Am I an in person, type of professional or I'm a remote type of professional? Do I value to have flexibility? Or do I value routine and being in the office every single day? Because that's the environment that that I'm thriving in? And that's how I build connections, and there is no right or wrong answer. I don't believe in one size fits all, I don't believe that only remote is the way to go. And I also don't believe that only in office is the way to go. I think there are different situations, different businesses, and particularities that are helping leaders make the decision if it's in office, or if it's hybrid, or if it's remote, right. But a lot of candidates have preferences.    And they've done it both ways. And people feel strongly about it still did seems like the opportunities are not as many as they used to be for the remote roles. And a lot of the companies are starting to bring people back to in office five days a week or hybrid. But if you ask in your negotiation come conversation about remote like how would you ask that very openly?   What is the what is the culture at Company X? What is the expectation right now? Do we have what is the policy? Right?   Do we think the policy is gonna change if it's going to change? Is there a framework in which the leadership is going to make the decision for example, I remember when we started COVID, at one of my previous companies, and I told people and I promise, I'm not going to promise the model is not going to change, I can't promise that I don't know how the world is going to evolve. I don't know what's going to be needed from a business perspective. But what I can promise is that I'm not going to surprise people with two weeks notice that up starting two weeks from now, we're going to be back in the office.    And I promised all the invoices that we're going to give them and each other a six month heads up to be able to adjust and change our lives accordingly to either adjust to the new reality that we are trying to create or to vote with our feet and say, this is probably not the right fit for me and where I am in life today. Therefore, it's probably better for me to depart the business.   Yeah, totally. I'm going to ask you two more coaching questions. And I know that this is probably going to be something we'll continue to talk about and something that I'd love for you to even journal about. But we're getting clear on what are the tangible what are the intangible needs? And then I want to ask, what is your concern? What What concerns do you have about this role? And then lastly, like what would make this an absolute yes for you? Should I start with the concerns? Yeah, let's go there.   Ah, Mmm hmm. That's such an interesting question. It really depends on the company and the stage of the company. So it's really hard to, to answer it without having a clear example in front of me, right? Talking about hypothetical businesses. But the examples are mostly around the opportunity in front of you, as a leader in front of me as a leader, in what skills are needed to nail that stage of growth, or turbulences, or whatever is happening in the company, I would be very interested in what is the next stage of growth after the current one? And do I have the potential to grow and scale with the company because I have a clear idea in my mind that I'm open to be challenged by other leaders in the industry that executives are a great fit for a particular stage of growth.    And after that, it needs to, you know, a little bit of a self assessment needs to happen to really ask yourself, am I the right leader for the next stage of growth in this company or not? And that takes a lot of courage and self awareness, to be able to, and humility to be able to have that conversation with yourself. But every time I'm looking at an opportunity I'm looking at, can I get can I grow and scale with the business? What if they grow really fast? Why did they grow Not so fast, and they experienced a lot of turbulence is how much resilience? Do I need to show? And at what point and right like, How much am I willing to be in that turbulent time? How long is it going to be right? I think that goes back to the psychological and physical well being the balance of it all. What are you saying? Yes, yes, exactly.   Exactly. And that's a good, that's a good internal conversation to have with yourself as a candidate, to really run towards something and not to run away from something. Yeah, I'm a big believer in when someone starts a new role, when you're looking at the non tangibles, and obviously, the tangibles as well. At the end of the day, to feel really good about the opportunity and to know deep down inside your soul that you're running towards something. Because if you're running towards something, no matter how hard it is, no matter how many turbulences you're going to experience, no matter how good of a fit, you are for the next three stages of growth, and maybe you're great for one or two, and you need to fire yourself before stage three, because the company needs a different type of leadership, you're going to do it with a lot more passion, if you don't find those connections.    And at the end of the day, being passionate about something, it's probably one of the strongest predictors. I've seen in my in my entire career journey. Now what can break a decision or what will make a decision a no brainer in someone in my role in my shoes, or in your shoes, it comes back to the chemistry between the leadership team or between you and your manager. There are so many flavors of the ice cream at this level, especially when it comes to leadership roles in everybody. All a lot of people got to leadership roles, because they've done great work in their careers. They accomplished a lot. They worked hard, they worked hard. I don't think at this level, it comes a lot to do you have the skills to do it. It's about how you do it. How do you how do you invite the other partners to your table so that you can make progress together? Influence and collaborate? I hear?    Yeah, I think it comes down to that. And it comes down to that chemistry between the people working together. So it sounds like you're getting really clear on the tangible and the intangible. And then also what I'm hearing is, what would make this a total? Yes, is the chemistry of the other leaders. So they're dating. Both ways. And in order to be ready to marry someone, both sides need to do their due date a few years.   Yes, but both sides need to do their due diligence and to make sure that why the moral compass of the other party to how they operate best when they are best on or when they are not at best. And you know, what kind of master sometimes shows up if they're stressed or under resource or you know, all sorts of things that can happen in organizations. Probably that's the most important factor that I'm taking into into consideration when saying yes, and going to the altar with with a new company.   Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. So in the last couple of minutes and I'll I'll share this framework of some of these questions that I asked semina at the end. So you want to listen all the way to the end. So you get those questions you can actually ask yourself, or you can ask another person that is also negotiating something important in their life. But what are some tips that you might give to anyone listening but especially to female executives? What can they start to negotiate in the initial interview stages?  And what can they negotiate that you would recommend? You know, during the offer,  and the early interview stages, I would clarify the tangibles. I would make sure I get as much clarity as I as I can around those aspects in the late stage of an interview the offer stage, I think it's time the industry to normalize the fact that executives meaning VPs and above should have some protection in place, right. We've seen rounds and rounds of layoffs. We've seen consolidations, we've seen a lot of headwinds, and turbulence is happening in the market. And it's still not common to see severance clauses as part of the all of the executive contracts.   Well, I live in California. And I don't know if this applies to executives, but California is an at will state. So they can they can let you go for any reason, even if you didn't do anything wrong. So that doesn't create a lot of security in me as someone that really wants to get married. If you want to be a prenup, yes. And also, if you want to be the executive who's gonna mention the unmentionable in the room who's gonna have the crucial conversation? So it's gonna challenge the status quo. You can't really have those if you're thinking well, do I have money to put food on the table for my kids? Do I have money to pay my mortgage or my rent, when I'm thinking about getting married with someone meaning in this case, starting a new job as a leader, there is a lot of risk on both sides, right?    The companies want to get it right. You want your leadership team, ideally, to encompass your core values to model the right behaviors to really drive the business forward. As a leader, you want to make sure that you're not going to be micromanage, you're gonna be respected for your opinion, and the expertise that you're bringing to the table, you also want to be able to challenge the status quo nicely, you're gonna require psychological safety, it's not just a check in the box, that's one of the very first things that I assess, and you got to build at the beginning. Totally.   So when you want to have psychological safety, but also move the needle forward, challenge the status quo, I find it hard to be able to address it and addressable. When you're thinking about, well, do I have money to provide food for my family to pay for the house to take care of the kids are other people you need to take care of as a as a as a human being, when that variable is taken care of.    And you know that no matter what happens, you're going to have a little bit of a softer landing, because it takes about six months on average to find your net next executive gig, the psychological safety that that relationship, and that pre negotiated contract creates for VPS. And above. It really benefits really beneficial for both parties involved in this, of course, the company is going to protect itself in a similar way. You you know you're going to assess performance, you're going to have OKRs, you're going to measure it if people are not hitting the goals, obviously, you're going to make the hard choices, and you're going to let people go but a found that it's easier to build that psychological safety. If there is clarity around if this doesn't work out. What are what are both parties getting out.   Right? What's Yeah, totally. What is our agreement? What is our agreement, having those hard conversations up front are so important. So that's what I'm hearing is a really big takeaway. That's what you can start to have in the interview process, like you're assessing for that. You know, what happens when things get messy? is psychological safety a check in the box or not? Can we have these hard conversations and people still want to be kind and collaborate? And then what are our agreements when things get messy, you know, which isn't doubtedly going to happen because we can't control so that's kind of what I'm hearing. Go ahead.    There's there's one good example of this work is the negotiation phase before you decide if it's a yes or if it's a no, that's providing a lot of insight into how the future relationship is going to be. How can you work together to solve a challenge and you're coming from On slightly different angles here, you're trying to meet somewhere in between. And are you approaching this? How are you having those crucial conversations without breaking the relationship by a fair fairness is a key value for you.    Yeah. Samina this was so helpful. I imagine it's going to be helpful for so many people not only just talking about how do we support people in layoffs kindly, but also how do we negotiate in a way that is really empowering ourselves and making sure that we're setting ourselves up for success? Thank you so much. And if there's anything else you want to leave our listeners Feel free, we will be linking your contact in the show notes. And if there's anything else you want me to send out, please let me know or share it with folks right now.   The only message I have for for people listening to the podcast is knowing their value and not being afraid to ask for what is fair. And what's their worth. It's doesn't come natural, it doesn't come naturally for if you're a woman in tech, if you're a female executive, if you're a minority, but it's the absolute right thing to do. And there are mentors out there. And I love mentoring people on how to do it gracefully, and change some of the practices in the industry. So thank you so much for having me, I love this conversation. And I hope we can meet again and continue our chat.   I love it, we will. I am loving this conversation.    And as we prepare for this podcast interview to come to a close, I'm going to leave you with three things that will really help you to embody the confidence to ask for what you desire, and what you deserve. And if we don't ask for it, we have no opportunity to receive it to receive it. So I'm going to break this down into three parts.    One, I'm going to lead by example, and make a bold request so that I can receive what I desire and what I'm deserving. And hopefully that will be an inspiration to you.    Number two, I'm going to share the coaching framework that I used with Samina to help her discern what was her negotiating power and and what were her concerns and what did she really want. This is something you can journal about for yourself, or you can utilize it with others to help them in their negotiations. And this can be applied to anything that you're negotiating for.    And then number three, I'm going to share what you can actually negotiate for in the new opportunity and professional path that you are seeking. Alright, you ready? Here we go. So I have had the great privilege and opportunity to serve some wonderful companies, leaders and teams in my business in the last decade. LinkedIn, Pixar, Clif Bar, Asana, capital, one Bank of the West, and then tech adventhealth, I am so grateful. And since 2020, I have known I wanted to join in an internal capacity in directing learning leadership team and org development. And it's been a crazy couple of years in the job market and in the world at large. And I am having some incredible conversations with folks right now exploring the right opportunity. But at the end of the day, it's all about the right fit.    And you might be asking, Why do I want this, I want this because I know that this path is where I can create the most influence and have the deepest positive impact with the internal people in the company and therefore, what the company is actually doing in the world. And I'm here to influence business to be a force for good in the world. So if you're an executive search or in the C suite, or you're working for a company where you just think Carly needs to be here we need Carly we need her wisdom and her passion and her skills. Then reach out to me I would love to know your challenges so I can help you can reach out to me on LinkedIn or you know just ping my website there's there's lots of links in the show notes and how to get in touch. If you also are aware of a role that is coming up that hasn't been posted, and you think you know I could help in a full time or fractional capacity reach out. I would love to help and love to have that conversation.    Number two, let's go over the negotiate Shin coaching framework that I use with Samina. Now, these are things that you can ask yourself, you can journal about, or you can actually roleplay this with another person. So first you want to share the context, what is the role? Or what is the thing that you are negotiating for? And then if you're doing this with another person, you want to summarize what you heard them say, summarizing what you heard them say, not what you think you heard them say, right? This allows people to feel heard and to feel seen. And we all want that. And then after you summarize that, you also want to say, Did I miss anything? And that gives them an A chance to elaborate or clarify, then you want to actually follow up with another question and you ask them, What do you need? What are the tangible and intangible needs?    And it might even be helpful to ask them, what would this look like if you had these needs met? Right? Because then, then the person might even recognize that they didn't need that, or they want something different? And then you would ask them, What are your concerns and asking for more, this is where the fear might come in. Or they recognize that there are parts of this role or parts of this opportunity, that aren't quite aligned. And then you would ask them, okay, so now that you've gotten clear, what's the next step? And as a coach, you always want to hold that person accountable to the next step. So you might say, how do we check in about this next step? Right?    Okay. So that's the coaching framework. And again, this can be applied to yourself, or to someone in your life. And then the next thing that is really going to be helpful for you, if you're exploring a new role is to understand what you can negotiate for in the interview. Ultimately, your satisfaction hinges less on getting the negotiation right and more on getting the job, right. So you want to really understand for who are your teammates? Who's your boss? What's the work life balance look like? How is this going to be a full guest for you?    So here's some things that you can negotiate for. So you want to ask about the remote policy in this company. And you heard Samina and I talked about that, you want to ask about whether there's bonus pay and equity. You want to know if there's matching money. So for example, maybe you've worked in other roles where you are accustomed to a 12% match, what is the match in this iteration? You want to know what the vacation policy is? Is it three to four weeks? Can it be reevaluated after the first week of service? Do you have the option to do any side work? If that's a passion, like maybe you have a podcast that you want to have outside of this scope and responsibility? You might want to ask for that. If you need to be in an office or in the same time zone?    Do they offer relocation pay? If professional development is important to you probably is especially if you're listening to this podcast, then how do they support you in your personal and professional development? What is the stipend for that? Is there a certification that you want or a conference that you'd really love to go to every year? Ask for all of us upfront? What's the health insurance coverage? Ask about travel, if you have to travel for work, whether it's domestically or internationally. We all know travel takes a toll on the body, mind and soul. So perhaps there's a negotiation upfront where you can say if I'm traveling to a different timezone or internationally, Can I tag on a couple of days where I can actually enjoy the city before I have to rush right back? Right?    Find out if there are any partial clauses for times of separation, where it is not your fault for the reason that they're having to let people go as mean and I were talking about earlier in the interview. And then you might also want to ask if there might be a retention bonus after the first year. And one of the questions I also really love to ask is how will I know that I'm being successful in this role, and that's not necessarily negotiation, but it is in a certain sense of what is expected of me in the first month in the first 60 days, 90 days, like really getting clear on that with the hiring manager with the senior people leaders.    The other thing that's a negotiation, qualifier for me is how much sponsorship are you getting from the senior people leaders because that's going to allow you to actually have more influence and be more successful.    Okay, those are some of the things that I think will be really helpful for you in navigating, asking for more. So how are you going to ask for more whether it's at work, or it's at home?  If you enjoyed this episode, please give me a five star review, share it with friends, family or colleagues on LinkedIn. We're all in this together and sharing is caring. I have some incredible interviews coming on in the podcast in 2023. So make sure you subscribe. And thank you so much for tuning in.

A couple of years ago, I was listening to Brene Brown's podcast and she shared this quote from Jim Collins that made me so mad I had to stop the episode: “Uncertainty is chronic. Instability is permanent. Disruption is common.” Brene shared this quote in the middle of the pandemic when things were at an all-time low for so many.   The reason I was so mad was because she and Jim were so right. It wasn't just the pandemic that made uncertainty, instability, and disruption chronic, permanent, and common. This is how the world always has been and always will be. I wasn't prepared for that last part. It will always be this way. It was as if I had been living in this dreamland in which I had convinced myself that at some point I would arrive at this beautiful destination where everything would finally be certain, stable, and free of disruption.   Thanks for wrecking my dream Brene and Jim!   But when I continued to think about this, I realized that I had already proven over and over and over again how adaptable I was. Life, career, relationships, and - most certainly - motherhood had trained me to adapt, pivot, change gears, and take share right turns on a very regular basis. The same is true for you. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but you too are adaptable AF. But if you aren't owning and honoring you may be missing out on really juicy opportunities and invitations to make decisions that allow for great expansion and possibility in your life.   In this episode, we will talk about how to improve your adaptability in motherhood and life by:   Honoring your scrappiness Owning your creative problem-solving skills Checking your ego Embracing change as a constant Becoming comfortable being uncomfortable Committing to long-term growth mindset We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website: https://shamelessmom.com/sponsor Interested in becoming a sponsor of the Shameless Mom Academy? Email our sales team at sales@adalystmedia.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode delves into the inspiring journey of Renee Bauer, a renowned divorce attorney turned women's empowerment advocate. It explores how Renee leverages her personal experiences and professional expertise to empower women to make decisions free from fear. Expect insights on reclaiming self-worth, understanding finances, and navigating life post-divorce.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:How Renee's work shifted to women's empowerment space. Overcoming divorce shame and embarrassment. How to make decisions that aren't based on fears. How toxic relationships can bring out the worst version of ourselves. Showing up for yourself and finding a positive tribe of people. She Who Wins podcast and Renee's upcoming book. How to take control of your money and be the CFO of your life. Episode References/Links:Follow Renee on IGMs. Renee Bauer WebsiteListen to the She Who Wins PodcastListen to the Be It Till You See It podcast Amy Ledin Episode 5: How to Take Fast Action Against Limiting BeliefsMenopocalypse by Amanda ThebeGuest Bio:Renee is an award winning divorce attorney and Founder of Happy Even After Family Law. She is also a multi 7-figure entrepreneur and loves helping other women recognize their own self-worth, make big, bold decisions and build a business that gives them the financial freedom to follow their heart.  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.Be It Till You See It Podcast SurveyBe in the know with all the workshops at OPCBe a part of Lesley's Pilates MentorshipResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Renee Bauer: [00:00:00] If I ask a client, like, if this was your daughter's relationship, what would you tell her? And they'll say, well, I tell her to leave. Well, why is that not good enough for you? Like, why is it different for her? And guess what? She's watching you. And if she's, if she sees you not leaving and sees that maybe her dad or or her stepdad isn't treating you right, like what does she take from that, Lesley Logan: Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt, my friend, my friends.Action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it. It's a practice, not a [00:01:00] perfect. Let's get started.All right. Loves, how are you? Welcome back to the Beat Till seat interview with an amazing guest. Um, I am so thrilled to have this one on. I've actually been on her podcast. She who wins and she's such a powerhouse. And here's what I know. I know that there are divine appointments and everything.Like we, uh, we met by putting ourselves into a room and it was a very small in-person event that was going on. And there was this networking. Part that was supposed to happen and as an introvert that I was, I just wanted to hang up my friend Lauren and like just go have a drink. But the energy in the group was so good that we decided to stay for the networking part, which was like this, you sit and the one row of chairs in front of you just kept moving.So you had like these two or three minutes per, per person to talk to. So it's a little overwhelming for the introvert that I am. And there's like 20 people that we met like within an hour. It was chaos and crazy. But when I, this woman sat down in front of me, first of all, I was so excited to [00:02:00] finally meet her because I'd been hearing her amazing advice in the room and I was like, I gotta know this woman.And then when she asked me for some help, I was like, Ugh. Cuz I had this like moment of like imposter syndrome. But like I just was like, this woman is so amazing, she's so powerful. Like, and then she asked a question and I was like, oh, I have an answer to that. And it was so hilarious because she had actually just met.The person I suggested that she connect with. However, um, it just goes to show that that person got double votes that she needs to connect with her. And also, um, never, never put yourself into a position where you actually are putting people up on pedestals when you haven't actually met them. Because who you are is valuable and what you have to offer is very uniquely different than what the person you're in front of has to offer.And so together we can actually have these amazing, crazy moments where we come together and we're stronger than we ever we're on our own. And so we actually dive into this, uh, to that type of topic in this interview. So, Renee Bauer, she's incredible. You're gonna hear her story. You're gonna hear who she is, what she does, what she's up to next, which I think is really important cuz sometimes I think, [00:03:00] um, when I bring on guests, you can just hear what they are at the top of their game, but also as they're transitioning into another thing.You know, she's this powerful, amazing person, but she's starting something new and there's uncertainty there and there's, there's newness there. And so I'm, I'm really excited for hear. Tons of amazing advice and also hear from someone who is like changing what they're up to these days and how that's working for them.And so it's exciting and you're gonna get a lot out of this. Let me know how you feel about this podcast by leaving us a review. Give us some stars. You can do that on Spotify, apple, or ever listen to podcasts. And here is Renee.All right, be it babe. I am really thrilled finally, to bring this amazing woman on the Be It pod. I have met her, gosh, it's probably almost six months ago now, uh, that we're recording this, so maybe even longer by the time you hear this. But she was just such a powerhouse, and when I heard what she does for women and what she does on this planet, I was like, I have to have her on.So Renee Bauer, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what Renee Bauer: you rock at? Thank you, Leslie. [00:04:00] I'm so pumped to be here. I am a divorce lawyer. I've been doing it for 20 years, but I noticed in that journey that the relationship was kind of a, was what happened after other things were going on in a woman's life.And really what was happening is women were struggling with issues of worthiness, of understanding money. Of understanding that they were capable of the love and the life and the job that they want. So my work has since shifted to more of this woman's empowerment space of hosting live events and a podcast.And I have a book coming out in 2023 all about that. So it's, you know, the work is, is is part divorce. That's what I, my trade is, but my love and purpose is really helping women just see what they're capable of and what they can inspire Lesley Logan: to. You know, okay. There's so much to unpack and love there because, um, you could have, you could have definitely just stayed, like, just had that one thing just been like, just rocking one thing, amazing divorce attorney, but you [00:05:00] saw that there's another problem and like, if we could solve this problem, it might put you out of a job or it might actually help people.Um, it will help women realize that no matter what happens in their relationship, they are an amazing person. That like, that, like that isn't a reflection, uh, it doesn't have a reflection of them and their worthiness. Renee Bauer: Yeah. And you know, so, uh, what I saw over the years is that women who would come into my office and they would sit across from me and they would ask questions like, how do you know?Or I would see them, Describe these really horrific, toxic relationships, or they knew that their relationship had come to completion because it was just fine and that wasn't good enough. But they still didn't make that decision to leave the relationship because they were scared. And a lot of times it was fear around money.It was a lack of control of money. And I said, well, that's, that's the issue here. It. Is, it's, it's not that the relationship, it's, you know, whether you stay or go, but it's, they're choosing, they know the relationship has come to completion, but they haven't chose themselves yet because they're so [00:06:00] afraid.And that's the root of really what, what the work that I do and the problem that I saw and I hope to help people Lesley Logan: work through. Oh yeah. I think, um, I can, I wasn't married to the person I was with before Brad, but it was like that. And I remember driving on the freeway and like, In traffic and just like praying to God that like he would break us up because I really didn't know how to break up and I also didn't know what I would do once we were broken up.Cuz I was like, I, I don't have a place to live once we break all these things. Right. And, uh, living in la like there's a really expensive leap to make. It's like, oh, I'm gonna go from like having a house that I like paid f partially for, but not enough to like, pay for an apartment of any size. Size. And so, um, so I, I can relate to those women so much and I'll, and I'll never forget I had this client.And, uh, she, she's a woman of a, of a certain age and a certain amount of wealth from her previous. She married well the first time, and she's asked me how it was going. [00:07:00] I said, oh, it's, it's nice. And she said, honey wallpaper's nice. And she said, look, you don't have to marry for love the first time you can marry for money.But do not just be in a nice relationship. Renee Bauer: I love that. I, you know what? I had the same story of that you had of driving, I was driving in my minch green Volvo, s u v with the double videos on the headrest with, with my infant son in the backseat. And I had this moment where it was like, okay, now that I have my son, I have everything I need to be happy.Like now I look back and I think of that thought. I was like, whoa. Like what? You know, girl, there, there's some work to do there. But I stayed in that relationship for. Two years because I thought, well, my son would bring me happiness. Not the case yet for a minute, but you know, not long term. And I had just started my law firm.I had maybe five clients I could count on one hand, you know, the number of people I represented. Rented and the money that was not flowing in, and I stayed partially because I was afraid of living on my own, having to support myself. I didn't know [00:08:00] how I was going to, even though I had a law degree, I was a lawyer.I didn't have that, that steady job because I was self-employed and I stayed. Yeah. And so I've like, I've been there, you know, and I see it so many times with women too, who feel so stuck because of a situation they find themselves in. But that doesn't have to be the only situation. Like there are, there are things that they.Can do in order to get out of that situation because being just fine. Am I ex He's a great guy. He was a great dad. Like there was nothing wrong. It was, it was wallpaper, Lesley Logan: right? I'm, it's just, I've, I've never forgotten that entire, like conversation cuz I'm, when, whenever I have clients like, oh, it's nice.I'm like, wallpaper's nice. Like, I'll never forget that. Like, there's gonna be moments where your relationship is like in different stages, but, um, just if the, if the high point is nice then, so I, I love that you have that story as well, because I think it makes it even easier for you to be relatable not only to your clients, but to the women that you're trying to serve right now.And what are some things that you did to [00:09:00] kind of like ready yourself to leave him and also like to get yourself to the point where you're like, I can teach other people how they're worthy no matter what's going on. Renee Bauer: Yeah, so two, two different questions and answers, but one, getting ready to leave. I just got to the point where I was so unhappy and I had gone to a doctor, just a regular checkup, and the doctor was like, how are things going?You're a new mom. And I remember saying like, you know, doc, I'm not happy. And she was like, you want me to prescribe a prescription for you? And I was like, wait a second. I'm not depressed, I'm not happy. And there's a difference. And that's when I think everything started to fall into place. And it was like, you know what?There's nothing wrong with this relationship, but I can't see myself li living a fulfilled life, staying in it and taking that leap and trusting that it was all going to work out. And I tell my clients that all the time. It's sometimes you have to take the leap and let everything work itself out the way it will, even though you're scared, even though you don't know what the other side's gonna look like, even though [00:10:00] you don't know where you're gonna live.Like you just have to decide, okay, I'm gonna take the smallest little action forward in order to at least start the momentum. And that's what I did. It was like the smallest step. And it was like, all right, I file. I don't know what's gonna happen next. Okay, now I move out. Now I don't know what's gonna happen after that.And it was like just kept taking little hard, uncomfortable, scary action. Friends, and you know, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. That year was hard. Like it was, it was, I was my, the worst version of myself. I was devastated. I had so much shame around it. I didn't have friends because I wasn't living in the state that I grew up in, but it's like, okay, I ca I know in my heart.This is still the right decision. Mm-hmm. Because even though it's a hard one, it's still the right one for me, you know? And here I am, all of these, let's see, my son's 17 now, so 15 years later, I'm so grateful I made that decision and he, we've both moved on, we're both remarried. Um, he's, my ex is with I think the per perfect person for him.I was not it, you know, I met with [00:11:00] my match and I'm so grateful that. I was able to kind of push through that hard when I think so many women don't want to feel that discomfort and so that they, they stay because what they know is better than what they don't know. Lesley Logan: Oh, yeah. I, I couldn't agree more. And I, I mean, like, I definitely, as I like hear your story, what I, what I hear so much is like, because of that situation, it really makes you the most prepared to do what you're doing right now.Like if you had, uh, if you had stayed in that relationship like. It doesn't sound like it was a horrible one. You just weren't happy and like you definitely would've ended up affecting other things in your life. But also if you'd never been married to that person, like your life, be totally different and you wouldn't be able to help.You could be the same lawyer with the same, even like a similar child situation, but like you wouldn't actually be able to relate to women the way that you're doing it and also empower them the way you are going to they, the way you are now. Renee Bauer: I don't think I became a really good divorce lawyer until I got through that and I have.So in between all of that, I got married a second [00:12:00] time, like so I even have that little and that second husband. That relationship lasted from beginning to end, like a year and a half. I mean, we're talking, meeting, marriage, divorce, and that short of time. So ta pile the shame on there and the embarrassment on, but that journey.Would not, you know, having gone through that, like I can connect with clients and other women who are saying, um, you know, I'm so scared I get it. Like I was too. Like I understand the fear around money and you can still work through it. So before I, you know, I was a decent lawyer, but having that pain and experiencing the emotional rollercoaster of going through that, I think changed everything about how I practiced and, and represented my clients.Yeah. Lesley Logan: Yeah, you can see them and, and also you can understand that that, and you said the word like it's shame. Like there is so much shame whether you go through a divorce or thinking of going through a divorce, you go through another one. My mom, um, she's gone through too, and I can tell that the shame that she still carries around that.Um, what are some things that you [00:13:00] help you helped yourself or help other clients do to deal with that shame part? Because that I think can be the one that changes your life the most. Like that could keep you from doing anything else after a divorce. I love this question Renee Bauer: so much because it wasn't until I started actually speaking out and speaking, going on a podcast like this and talking about my two divorces that I overcame the shame.So prior to that, I was like going into work and, and doing all of the things. I'd come home and still be kind of living in this world of like, I was embarrassed. I didn't wanna talk about it. I didn't wanna share any of my personal story with my colleagues or like other lawyers or let anyone know about it.But I had gone on a friend's podcast and she started, she, she said, I'm gonna interview you. I'll bring sushi over. We'll have a couple martinis. It'll be all good. So she did that. I'm like, Ooh, sushi. Okay, I'm, I'm in. We poured the martini. She clipped on the mic and she. Started asking me about my divorce and maybe I was a little buzzed, but I actually started answering [00:14:00] really honestly.And when that episode came out, people had reached out to me to say like, Hey, that was my story too. Thank you for speaking so vulnerably about it. And that's when I realized I need to talk about this and not be ashamed about it. And so now, now it's like, it's, it's second nature to just, to be like, yeah, I'm divorced twice, so what?You know? And so it was, it was sharing it, and I think so often, People don't wanna share that. And they're almost like, apologize. It's like, you know, the whisper like, oh, I'm divorced, or I'm twice divorced. And it's like, just own it. Be like, you know what? I, I was in two relationships that didn't work out and I made the, the brave decision to leave that because I wanted more from our family, for us, for our kids.And you know that that's okay. You know, Lesley Logan: I wanna highlight that because there are many women listen to this podcast. We have a few good men and then we have mostly women and I. I wanna highlight that you said you made the brave decision to leave. I think, um, though, that if we could actually change the stigma around divorce and we could [00:15:00] actually focus on, um, that you may, that it's brave and courageous to, you know, Acknowledge that this is not the right relationship for either person, then I actually think there'd be more happiness in this world, and also children raised in households where they can see that confidence comes from like, choosing yourself and that you can choose yourself.Um, I, I, I actually think it would be way different than people like trying to stick it out for longer and or some people are in relationships, unfortunately, where there is. Trauma happening and things like that, and like that, that there's a shame around divorce. So they'd rather stay in the thing. And it's like if we could just empower people that it's actually very brave to choose, you know, to help both people have an opportunity to have love and Renee Bauer: happiness.Yeah, and I, and I think if people are being really honest, if they're in that or you're on the cusp of divorce, that relationship's not happy. Neither of you are happy. Because you are not gonna have one person who's totally happy and the other one who's miserable, like something, the dynamic it, it whatever is [00:16:00] happening there.The reality of it is both of you are probably in this kind of place of just being stuck or just going through the motions of it. And it breaks my heart that like I have friends who are in relationships or marriages that are not great and they're not happy. And I'll say to them, well, you have a choice.And they'll be like, no, I don't. Like, I have three kids. So. Like that isn't the reason to stay in something where you wake up every day and you, you dislike, and I, I don't wanna say the word hate, but for some people it's hate, dislike, or resent. Your your spouse. And if you know, I, I like to say if when your kids go off to college, how do you feel about spending time with your spouse?And usually if the answer is like, oh God no. Like, I don't know what we're gonna do, well that tells you that something needs to be fixed, whether you work on it as a couple, which if that's possible, then the absolutely do that. Or you make the decision to change the situation. Yeah. Lesley Logan: Yeah, I think that that's what a, a great way to picture things, cuz that can really help you.And also, like, I love that, you know, [00:17:00] you people we're not here saying like, divorce is the answer. You can't, there are some relationship that absolutely can be worked on, but ob obviously both parties have to want to, to do that. And then action speaks louder than, than the words that are in those things.So, so to go back to like teaching people worthiness and like also, you know, Also overcoming the fear of that uncertainty. What are, what are some things that, um, that women can do, and especially in if, if that's, if this is where they're like thinking of going or where maybe they're at right now as I listen to this.Renee Bauer: Yeah. And so I'm bringing this to a, a very strategic, um, to do what they can do because what I have found is that most women have this fear around money, and often they, they'll come into me and they'll say, I wasn't the one who paid the bills, or All the money got deposited into a joint account. I don't know what's going on.So this is a really practical strategy that they can just start to really educate themselves and be informed about what's happening in their marital finances. Really start to see what's [00:18:00] coming in, what's going out, what do the bills look like, um, look at retirement statements. Make sure that you have your own credit card.Set up a separate bank account if all you have is a joint account. So like, really start to do things where you feel empowered from a financial perspective, because so many women feel like they're, they're gonna stay stuck because of the money, you know? Mm-hmm. Like we talked about. Mm-hmm. They're not, they're not gonna have enough, but if they start to take control of that, then they can.Start to make decisions that aren't based on fear, but really are aligned with what they know is true. So it's really start to get a handle on the money, and that's like start looking through bank statements and credit card statements and investment statements so you can really understand what there is.Lesley Logan: Yeah, I think that that's really, we, um, at our house, we call it the sahu, the State of the Financial Union. And once a month, and I hate the meeting, I really do, but I also don't wanna not be at the meeting because like, it didn't make me feel good to not know what's going on. So we once a month sit down and we know how much money is the next month supposed to bring in, how much are we?And like it's a little bit [00:19:00] business and a little bit personal because obviously we work for ourselves. So if the business doesn't make its money, we don't make our money. So we actually sit through and go, okay, yes, we expect all these members to stay on. We expect, oh, I expect these ones to leave. Oh, we have these events coming up.We can expect to make this much. Okay. Every, all the, there's no stress on payroll, there's no stress on this. And then, um, while Brad does pay our bills, well my sister actually works for us and she like sends all the money around. I'm on all the, I get all the emails. This has been paid, this has been paid, this has been paid.So like I am involved in knowing where things are at. And then my husband and I actually never joined our, uh, bank accounts. We've always had 'em separate. Yeah. Just kind of made sense cuz he had his own business at the time and I had my own. And it allows, It allows me to feel like I don't ever have to a, not that he, he would ever ask me to, but I don't ask.I don't ever feel like I have to ask to buy a cent something if I want something. Yeah. It's like I have my own money, I have my own credit card. You know, as long as I can be responsible with all that, then I can know I'm good with my things. I, you know Renee Bauer: what? And that's such a hot button [00:20:00] topic, because I like, I posted something on TikTok and it went a little nutty and people were coming at from all different angles.I agree with you. I, there's nothing wrong with keeping things separate and my husband and I too, we all have separate stuff and we have a joint bank account that really sits there kind of dormant. We don't use it because everything, we're kind of operating from our separate. That doesn't mean you're setting yourself up or getting prepared for divorce.It just means that you have some financial independence. And having that state of the union is so important because even though things are separate, you come together and you look at the full picture. So people get really triggered by that, and they think like, well, if you're, you're keeping things separate, then that means your relationship isn't totally unified.And I disagree. Yeah. I think that, Lesley Logan: yeah, I couldn't, I, I agree. And I, you know, TikTok is a whole other world of Oh, it certainly Renee Bauer: is. I just, it's such a weird place, but Lesley Logan: like, Almost the people who are saying that, I feel like there's more fear on, on their end, like that you're almost highlighting something, um, that they're, [00:21:00] uh, unwilling to acknowledge.But it's like your relationship can be hot and connected and it doesn't have to be by a bank account. Like that's what tell you you're having a great relationship. So, um, I love, I love that tool. Um, when it, when when women are, um, obviously they're spare around money. Do, what other fears have you seen that keep them from maybe making this decision or also they know that they make the decision, but like making the next steps so that they can thrive On the other side?Being Renee Bauer: alone, that's always a big one. Um, figuring out, so being alone and having to figure out like, How are you cutting the lawn? I mean, that's one of my favorite stories is like one of my first weekends after divorce, it was maybe a few weeks had gone by and I looked out in my lawn and they were like weeds all over the place.I'm like, ah, shit. Like I need to handle this. And I went out with a weed whacker and weed whacked a half acre, and it was a disaster. And then on Monday I went and hired someone. But it was like doing simple things like [00:22:00] that that you never had to think about. And people think like they're. Overwhelmed, like, how am I going to have the, the driveway plowed?And, and, and there's solutions to all of that. So you don't put your happiness online just because you're worried about the, the shrubs needing pruning. Mm-hmm. So that's, you know, that's one of the things. And then often the kids, people are afraid of messing up their kids. And I, what I say to them is, conflict causes problems and it causes, um, Con consequences in, you know, in kids, what kids are seeing and how they're being raised.It's not, it's not the divorce, it's the conflict. Mm-hmm. So, being in a house where there's a ton of conflict and a ton of fighting, they're seeing that now you're normalizing what, what a relationship looks like to them. And let me tell you, they're gonna go on and make those same mistakes and not have a healthy relationship because they're mirroring what the, what they grew up in rather than watching.To their parents, maybe live separately, but also live in a, in a happy environment. And [00:23:00] I know that that's kind of black and white and there's a whole lot of in between there with levels of conflict, even when you're divorced. But often people think that the divorce itself is going to screw kids up, and it's just not, it's not true.Yeah, I think, Lesley Logan: I think you're right. I think, um, you know, there's that whole like childhood divorced kids, like divorced homes like from the eighties and nineties. And I think that if you really look at it, it was the way that conflict was really. Put through with divorces, like there's conflict getting to the divorce, and then the divorces are messy and ugly.And, and so like, the kids are not, it's not the divorce, it's the messy and ugliness that they're seeing from their parents who, the parents say they love them, but that like, they're like, it's, but they're, it's just, it's all a hot mess. So I, I agree. I think, um, One of our guests, Amy Ledin, she'd said, um, actions are caught not taught.And if you are wanting your kids to go open a world where they get to have choice, they get to feel happy. inute---Lesley Logan: They get to feel like they have potential and possibility in this world and love, but you're raised 'em a household [00:24:00] where like they can clearly see that the two adults do not have that kind of passion for each other, or love for each other, or respect for each other.They're seeing that they're seeing those actions and that that is going to be something that. They either resent you for or they think is normal, as you say, that normalizes it, and then that's how their relationships go. Renee Bauer: Yeah. Like, and you think about, like, I have a, a son and three stepkids. I want them to be happy.And if that means walking away from a relationship that isn't good and, and, and filing for a divorce or, or leaving that, then so be it. If they're happy and rather than staying, you know, and it's like, It's what do you want for them? And if you can't, like if, if you, if I ask a client, like, if this was your daughter's relationship, what would you tell her?And they'll say, well, I tell her to leave. Well, why is that not good enough for you? Like, why is it different for her? And guess what? She's watching you. And if she's, if she sees you not leaving and sees that maybe her dad or or her stepdad isn't [00:25:00] treating you right, like what does she take from that? You know?Mm-hmm. Just, it's, it's hard though. It's hard, you know? It's easy for, for someone to listen, be like, yeah, but you don't get it. It, it's, you know, there's so many, of course it is hard, like there are so many factors and it's not a simple process to walk away and there's so much untangling and uncoupling, but it's still worth it.Yeah. If you're living in a bad relationship or a stagnant, or there isn't love, Yeah, it's worth it. You're Lesley Logan: worth it. I, I love that you, and thank you for your knowledge and that I, like, if you're listening to this and you're like, you guys, it's like, it's not gonna be easy. It's not gonna be easy. It's not easy.Even if you, if the, if it's a conscious uncoupling, like yeah, it's still not easy. Um, because that, that's the end of a chapter. That's end of a story. It's end of a book and like, you know, there's a lot of unraveling to do there. But, um, I, I will stand by you and like, you know, we, it is so much more important.On the other side of it, and now however long that takes you, like, you know, it's, it doesn't have to be tomorrow that you make this decision. [00:26:00] You can prepare and ready yourself to ready up. But like I do think that being honest with yourself about what you deserve in this world, I. You know, and I, I believe that everyone has this purpose, as I'm sure you do, and like there's lives that they can change and there's people that they can love.And if you are not in a place where you feel loved or feel happy or feel respected, you can't show up in the world No. And give people Renee Bauer: anything. No. When I was in that second bad marriage, and that one was really toxic, I was an awful boss. I was an awful lawyer. I was an, I was, uh, not a very good or present parent.I wasn't a good friend. Like I was just, I, I was, I was my worst version. Like I could not possibly shine light on anyone else because I was sitting in so much darkness. Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. Um, How do you prepare people to go through the steps of a divorce? Like, are there things that they, that we should, that we, I'm not gonna include myself.I'm doing great, but are there things that people can, [00:27:00] um, can, like, think about and consider? Because obviously there's the filing, but then like, you know, depending on what state you live, and it could be months long, there's all these things. So like what are some things like emotionally though that they could, we could think about to, to, to go through that process?Renee Bauer: Uh, find, find your tribe. Find a support system. Um, that may not include friends and family. So those people who are around you now, they're really well intentioned, but they may not be the best person to go to. So find a community of people, and there's so many of them out there in, in this world, and pri like, I have a private Facebook group for divorced women, but find a really positive tribe of people who get what you're going through.Um, so you don't feel so alone in it. And the other thing is make sure it, you know, start to put the steps in place to educate yourself and, um, like I had mentioned, start gathering financial documents. Meet with a couple lawyers. Don't just go to a person who's someone recommended. Uh, go and have a couple consultations, even if they're paid.And trust your gut. Like, who, [00:28:00] how do you feel about this person? Can you work with them, um, and make sure you're making a decision based on what. What they offer, like is it aligned with how you wanna go through the process? Um, because a lot of times people will hire someone because they heard through the grapevine, someone's cousin's uncle, use this person.They had a good experience. Well, they might not be the right person for you. So just like, keep checking in with your gut. And like having some grace in recognizing it's going to be really hard. Just bring yourself back to center to remind yourself this is still the right decision, even if it's hard. And you get that right support around you outside of the court, inside the court, um, and everything in between.And just keep like your eye on the prize and recognizing like, this is just a moment. It's a moment. It might last a while, it might last a year, but it's a moment and there will be a time when you'll start to feel really, really good about your decision. Lesley Logan: Yeah. I, I love that you said find a tribe. I think, um, because it might not be your friends and family, cuz there's, [00:29:00] it's like telling a coworker you're gonna leave a job.Even that's like, they're gonna be like, oh, should you be doing that? Well, what about your vacation? Yeah. What about this? And it's, and they're projecting their fear of for themselves about the change in the life that you leaving is going to make. And so they might not be the best people to, to talk to cuz they may, unfortunately, with all the love in the world, say the wrong thing.And, and then you're gonna feel more alone and more like you're doing the wrong thing. Yeah. Or more that you're crazy. And so I, I do think it's important to find people who, who can't do that. And also, you know, when I left my ex, when I had met him, I had just moved to LA so all of my friends were his friends.The other friends I had were like clo like acquaintances from work, but like they were all his friends. So when we, when I, when I left, like I lost everything, all the friends house, and then I totaled my car leaving. So that was its own thing. So I was like, okay, Jesus, take the wheel. Just take whatever, whatever I'm not supposed to have, just get rid of it all cuz I don't really wanna, I don't wanna [00:30:00] go through this anymore.And, um, But I was so grateful cuz I had this one friend who was introduced to me. That person did not, I did not, I only met her one time while I was with him, so she had no idea who I was then. So we just became these like best friends for a summer and she got me to the other side of that whole transition.Um, and she's also one that introduced me to Brad. So it was like a very interesting. Interesting person to have in my life, but I don't think, um, it would've been, I would've felt the same and come out the same and look back 10 years later and go, that was the fucking best thing I ever went through. Thank goodness I went through that.Renee Bauer: Yeah, I, you know, for me it was, um, I had the same thing because all, none of all of my friends were my ex's friends, so I really had like maybe one or two people in the state and I wasn't super close to them. I decide to sign up for yoga. I'm like, I'm gonna do yoga and I'm gonna show up and, and let me tell you, every time I thought to myself, every time I don't have my son when I'm miserable and when I'm like, so sad, I'm gonna go to yoga because I'm gonna fill that time.I was like putting a bandaid over it. [00:31:00] But I started to enjoy it. I started to actually get to know the community of women who went there. Then I started to do things with them outside of the studio, and I showed up even when I didn't want to. Like there were, there was a Saturday morning, I woke up. I was like sitting there over my coffee crying.I did not wanna go. I'm like, You're either gonna sit here all day and feel bad for yourself, or you gonna put some leggings on and you're gonna go to yoga and you'll probably feel better at the end. So it was like I kept forcing myself to do those things even though I didn't want to. And it made all the difference because they really became a, a group of friends during that time that I needed to, to get, get me outside of my own head out of my house.You know? So, and, and I think that's the one thing too, is just like make force yourself to put yourself in new surroundings with new people. Well, and as you're saying Lesley Logan: that, what I like I basically heard is like you're kinda like being at till you see, you're putting yourself into a space. Yeah. Where you could be the woman you wanted to be without all that negativity going on.And then you can meet people and they would get to know the Renee that you wanted people to know. And [00:32:00] so there was like this really be like, you had this like safe haven, this island. And I think like, you know, there. No matter how much money or little money you have in every community, there are community classes, there are donation only classes.There's just different things, and so, you know, try to find. Different ways that you can have a, a new tribe to meet new people and put yourself And I know for the introverts I know, I hear you. I know Renee Bauer: I'm an introvert. Yeah. So I like, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Lesley Logan: The good news is, is you don't have to talk to people during class.It's just before and after. Yeah. Um, okay. I wanna talk about what you're doing now because, um, I feel like, uh, like. When you transition to something new, and it's not like you're leaving what you're doing, but you're adding this new amazing thing. There is another element of like being, until you see it like you are the top of your game over here and now you're like starting this whole thing over here.And so how has that been going? What are you ex the most excited about right now? Renee Bauer: I love that, that, um, so, you know, imposter syndrome is a real thing and you could look at [00:33:00] someone and be like, oh, they're doing all the things and they're successful and it still sneaks in. So yeah, it's. It's le it's starting a new thing, a new company, and you start from the ground.And it's exciting though. It's like filled with possibility. Um, I don't, you know, doing it without expectation attached to it is kind of amazing too. It should be like, I'm gonna just follow what feels really good and what feels aligned and see where it brings me. So the She Who Wins, uh, summit is a live event that I created last year.Didn't know who was gonna show up. Wasn't even sure. Like I thought that I was gonna have to like, beg people to come and fill the seats. And we ended up selling out. Um, and we're doing it again in 2023 on April 29th at Mohegan Sun Casinos. So, um, it's all about coming together and being in the room together because some of the most impactful things that I've ever done is when I put myself in the room mm-hmm.And connected with other women. Women who are doing really awesome things and like authentically make, I mean, look at how you and [00:34:00] I met. Is we connected by putting ourselves in the room? Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, it's amazing, like what you can learn from other people and that's, that was the inspiration behind it is like, let's hear from people who are doing incredible things.Let's bring them all together. Let's have some fun. It's not just education, it's some entertainment. It's, you know, getting up in some movement and be inspired and motivated, but also walk away with some actionable items that you can immediately implement in your life. Lesley Logan: I love this. I couldn't agree more and, and.You the, we were in a, in a, an awesome small. And what was so fun about our in-person is that I was, when you asked who you I, who you wanted, like we wanted more amazing women in your life. And I was like, oh, can you talk to Karine? Which Kareem was on our show, um, in the beginning. And you're like, I just met Karine.And so fu what's a really crazy and amazing is when you do put yourself in amazing spaces, you start to meet. People who know similar people and you end up very quickly in a really awesome group of people with shared, shared experiences, shared values, shared wants and [00:35:00] dreams, and then you start to propel each other forward.And the only reason I met Kareen is cuz I put myself in another room that I really didn't wanna go to. I almost like got sold my ticket. I was like, I don't really need to go to this thing. And I went Any. Anyways, and it was the best, the best thing it could have ever. The, the, the reason we're listening to this podcast is because of these rooms that I put myself in, where I was like, I got myself into place where I'm like, oh, I could do that.Oh, this is how I could do it. And I could, um, I could see those things. And too often we, we wait until we're ready or until the stars align or tell. Everything is figured out before we put ourself in a space where we would say, I don't know how to do this thing. And like the rooms that we have, we've met in, it's like, I have this problem and I don't know how to solve it.And that is so much vulnerability. And immediately you have connection with other people, Renee Bauer: and I think women are afraid in general to ask for help. And, you know, we, we take all of this stuff on and we try to balance it all. And we, we, we think that we can figure it out on ourselves. We don't want to burden other people.And there's so many [00:36:00] amazing people who want to help. And it's like, it's incredible when like, like I've learned to ask for help for things and. When I reach out to someone and be like, Hey, I need help with something, I immediately, the response is like, oh yeah. Like absolutely I can, I can send you this, or I can make this introduction like we want.So when you're surrounding yourselves with people who genuinely want to help you, like it's amazing because you never feel alone in this journey. Yeah. Lesley Logan: Yeah, I, I, I wish we, um, I would love to figure out what it is that we were taught when we were younger. Like cuz all, obviously we all got a message that, that we're not supposed to ask for help cuz it's gonna look like we don't, like we are, don't know what we're doing.Um, but it is, it is so true. Like the people I find that. All of my friends want, have, want to help. They want, like anyone you'll meet wants to be part of whatever you're creating. People want to be supportive, but we are so, we are like, I gotta do it all on my own. Like the be like, it doesn't matter unless I did it myself.Renee Bauer: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I have, I have like a story of that trying to get into college, get into [00:37:00] law school, and it was someone who knew someone who could help me get into the school. I'm like, no, I don't want the introduction. I'm gonna do it on my. Oh, you know, and then when the rejection rolled in, I was like, oh shit.You know, maybe I should have asked for the help. But yeah, I don't know where it comes from, but that's how, that's how I always felt. It was like, I'm not strong enough, or it doesn't, it's not, it doesn't matter or it's not an achievement. Yeah. If I have to actually ask someone to assist me. Lesley Logan: Yeah, it's, um, yeah, that's just, it's, it's so funny.So ladies, everything you need to hear is like, ask for help because people actually wanna help you. And also it does, it's not a reflection on you that you like, no one is like, oh, that person she asked for help. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Renee Bauer: and you know what, and being so vulnerable about it too. Like now I'll just be like, I have a problem and here's what it is.And like, I don't care. Like, it doesn't mean that, oh, she's not as successful because she has a problem with this thing and needs, needs help. Like, no, let's not. I think that's something that, that we, cause if someone comes to me and says, Hey, I have something, can you help me with it? I don't [00:38:00] look at them and be like, huh, who are they?Like they're not, you know, they're not a successful person cuz they're asking, so why are we doing that to ourselves? Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. I think the more we can start to treat ourselves the way we treat other people in all ways, I think we'll actually get a lot farther. So you're writing a book. Um, has that been a fun process?Is it been an enjoyable process? Is it like a whole new experience? Like what's it, what's it been Renee Bauer: like? Um, so I'm a writer before I am anything else? I've been writing for a really long time, just. Of even being a kid. So that was, uh, that was such a joyful process. I mean, that was, and as I started to write, I, you know, that was a journey too.It's kind of interesting cause I wrote a number of chapters and I looked back at it and I'm like, this is very surface level. It's not, uh, it's not deep enough. And I said, you know, in order to like really connect, I'm like, I think I need to like, kind of pour my heart and soul and vulnerability onto these pages.And I scrapped those chapters and said, let me start again. And let me talk about things that I've never shared before. [00:39:00] Um, so it was almost like a healing session for me cuz I thought there were things that came up that I thought were completely healed. And I'm like, oh, body image issues and weight issues and stuff like that.And all of a sudden I'm bringing up memories as I'm writing from, like when I was a kid, I'm like, where the hell did that come from? Like, I thought that that was all tucked away and dealt with. So the writing journey has been, Absolutely beautiful. The book comes out on September 5th, 2023 by Iran Publishing.Um, I'm so excited to share it with the world because it just, it like is so near and dear to, to me and Lesley Logan: oh my gosh, I can't wait for it to come out. We'll have to make sure our peeps, um, all know it's coming out because, um, it's. You're the, when you one, if you love writing, then like it's going to come across on the page.But also to be so vulnerable and to actually go deep, that is going to change it. Cuz so many books I've, I've read, I'm like, well this is great. Yeah, this is nice, this is good wallpaper. Um, but Renee Bauer: like, we don't want wall. But I find that the Lesley Logan: books that like I talk about so much are the [00:40:00] ones where I can tell the author shared in such a vulnerable way that I'm like, I can see myself, I can feel myself, I can understand it, you know, so, um, a, a recent book I read was Meta Apocalypse, and I wanna get her on the show, but like, she was so vulnerable about her story and her journey of perimenopause that I like, I actually felt like I could be in the, like, I could actually understand what she was talking about in a way I could feel it in my body and like, You know, that's another thing that I think we can, can be so hard.It's like, I don't wanna share everything because then people will know all the things. So it's like most people have gone through what you're going through and they just wanna feel seen. So if you actually just share all those dark, dirty stories that you've, you've put those labels on that are actually just experiences that you had that made you who you are, you'll have more people who are like, oh my gosh, like you've, no, you've made me feel so seen.I get you, you know? Yeah. Renee Bauer: Yeah. Yeah. And that, and that was the, the reason behind it. That was the reason behind the stories. Cuz the book isn't about me, it's just, it's moments, it's stories, it's just, uh, that tie into what we're talking about in that chapter. But it's [00:41:00] not my life story. I'm not telling you my journey from childhood to adulthood, but it's these moments that were so difficult for me and caused so much pain.Or joy moments of joy too, and laughter and stupidity. Um, stories and like some stupid things that I've done that I've been so embarrassed about. And it's like, it's the humanity of it. Mm-hmm. So if someone can read that and say, oh, I had, I didn't have that experience, but I had that similar feeling and I experienced something that, you know, was my own version of it, then, you know, I, I did my job as a writer.Yeah. And, and ultimately that's just it. I wanna move people emotionally. Lesley Logan: Yeah. Ugh. Well, I can't wait to announce, um, to our peeps when your book is ready to be purchased and all of those things. Um, Renee, we're gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna find out how people can find you, follow you, work with you, and you'll be at action Night at school.Okay, Renee, where do you like to hang out? We know TikTok, but what are your handles? Renee Bauer: I, I actually don't like TikTok, so don't go over there. Um, Instagram's kind of my favorite, favorite place. It's at Ms. Renee Bauer, so I'm always in there responding to dms. Lesley Logan: [00:42:00] And you have a podcast. She who wins. I do. Yep. On all major platforms.Awesome. So wherever you listen to this, you guys, you can listen to that. Um, I was on that, uh, on one of the episodes and I know some of my other dear friends, but on this, so you have to go, uh, do a little binge listen, so, okay. Bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it.Renee Bauer: Yeah, so I'm bringing it back to Money. Ladies know your money. Don't be afraid to talk about money, to dig into it, to ask for it, to ask for the raise to, uh, to understand how it's serving you or how it's not serving you. And I think if we're talking about like one action item is like, treat yourself like you are the c f O of your life.Treat yourself as if you are your own business. Don't let it money rule you. You take control of it. And because that is the, it's so powerful. It gives you the courage to do things. It gives you the courage to walk away from things that aren't serving you. So don't be afraid to get really up close and personal with your money relationship.[00:43:00] Lesley Logan: Mm. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love that so much. Brene, this is amazing. We'll have to have you back. Um, thank you so much for being you and being here. Everyone. How are we going to use these tips in your life? Let us know. Tag the be it pod tag, Ms. Renee Bauer. And until next time, be it till you see it. That's all I got for this episode of the Be Until You See a Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram.I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others be it till you see it. Have an awesome day. Be it till You see. It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. Brad Crowell: It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Leslie Logan and me, Brad Kroll.Lesley Logan: It is produced, edited by the Epic team at Deeno. Our Brad Crowell: theme music is by Ali at Apex Production [00:44:00] Music, and our branding by designer and artist John Franco Trophy. Lesley Logan: Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Samina Velazquez for our transcriptions. Brad Crowell: Also to Angelina Harko for adding all the content to our website.And finally to Meredith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

You may or may not know this, but in addition to hosting our podcast, I recently started hosting the free webinars Beyond BookSmart offers to help teach people about executive function skills and related challenges. We have panelists who add their insight and perspective and we cover a wide variety of topics but in a live setting, it's such a blast and I really love being able to connect with more people who are excited to learn about Executive Function skills and discover how life changing they can be to work on. We thought it would be fun to bring the audio from our latest webinar, “Your Kid's Not Lazy: How to Unlock Motivation Through Executive Function” to our Focus Forward listeners and share some bonus content for those who happened to be among the 1300 people who registered.This past week's webinar was all about motivation, how it works, their related Executive Function skills and challenges and some tools and strategies you can use to help make motivation a little easier for your kids and/or yourself. Throughout our webinars, we always invite people to ask questions using the q&a feature on Zoom and then we answer as many as we can at the end of the presentation on the feature topic. For this webinar, there were so many great questions left after we finished up the webinar and we really, really wanted to answer as many as we could. So, I invited our panelists, Amy McDuffie and Vin Kachurik to join me the day after to help answer a whole bunch more. Keep listening after the webinar audio to hear our bonus conversation. We cover all sorts of topics, including motivating kids with Oppositional Defiant Disorder, college survival skills, and self-advocacy, and using planners and calendars to support that planning, prioritizing and time management executive function skills. I really hope you enjoyed today's episode, and that you learn about motivation and its challenges, which is something I think we can all relate to. The new section starts around 44:08 if you want to skip right to it! If you're interested in actually attending the webinars live, you can find more about them in the resources section of our website, BeyondBookSmart.com. They're always free and we put a ton of work into them to make sure they're truly useful, relevant and relatable.In the meantime, here are some resources related to the episode: Full recording of the webinarMichael Delman's book, Your Kid's Gonna Be OkayBlog on ADHD & MotivationLink to agenda and webinar slides: Info about Executive Function coachingSupporting College Students - including Covey QuadrantsHow to Increase Motivation With ADHD: 10 Tips From Treatment ExpertsDr. Lisa Damour's Advice for Motivation to Do HomeworkContact us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoachingTranscript:Hannah Choi 00:04Hi everyone, and welcome to Focus Forward, an executive function Podcast where we explore the challenges and celebrate the wins, you'll experience as you change your life by working on improving your executive function skills. I'm your host, Hannah Choi. You may not know this, but in addition to hosting our podcast, I recently started hosting the free webinars Beyond BookSmart offers to help teach people about executive function skills and related challenges. We have panelists who add their insight and perspective and we cover a wide variety of topics. It's kind of like Focus Forward live. It's such a blast. And I really love being able to connect with more people who are excited to learn about EF skills, and how life changing working on them can be. Hannah Choi 00:47We thought it would be fun to bring the audio from our webinars to our Focus Forward listeners. There's just such good stuff in there, and I wanted you all to be able to hear it too. If you're interested in actually attending the webinars live, you can find more about them in the resources section of our website, beyondbooksmart.com. They're always free. And we put a ton of work into them to make sure they're truly useful, relevant and relatable. So this past week's webinar was all about motivation, how it works, the related EF skills and challenges and some tools and strategies to use to help make motivation a little easier for our kids and ourselves. Throughout our webinars, we always invite people to ask questions using the Q&A feature on Zoom. And then we answer as many as we can at the end of the presentation on the feature topic. And this past week, there were so many great questions left after we finished up the webinar, and we really, really wanted to answer as many as we could. So I met up with our panelists, Amy and Vin, the next morning to continue answering them. So keep listening after the webinar audio to hear our conversation. We cover all sorts of topics, including motivating kids with Oppositional Defiant Disorder, college survival skills and self advocacy, and using planners and calendars to support that planning, prioritizing and time management executive function skills. I really hope you enjoy today's episode, and that you learn about motivation and its challenges, which is something I think we can all relate do. The audio begins when I introduce our panelists, I figure you wouldn't want to listen to all the housekeeping stuff that I covered in the beginning. And if you attended the webinar, so you've already heard the audio from it, you can jump ahead to 44 minutes to hear these Q&A questions. And now on to the show. Hannah Choi 02:39All right, let's get to know our panelists. Both of our panelists tonight are Beyond BookSmart coaches, and they also provide additional support to both our coaches and our clients caregivers as Executive Function Consultants. And first up, we have Vin Kachurik joining us from Ohio. Vin please tell us about yourself and your roles at Beyond BookSmart.Vin Kachuik 03:01Hi everybody. As mentioned, my name is Vin Kachurik. I use they/them pronouns. I live on a farm in Ohio with my spouse and my elderly Greyhound, he's sleeping over here next to me. I'm an executive function coach and consultant here at Beyond BookSmart. And prior to this, I taught creative and academic writing at the college level for about 10 years. Though, given that most of my students were first years, I feel like a lot of my classes would have been better titled "How to survive college 101". I feel like I spent as much time teaching students to manage the challenge of college as I did teaching them writing. But that experience really helped me develop a lot of the skills that I use now, experience that I hope will be helpful to you today.Hannah Choi 03:43Yes, absolutely. Thanks, Vin. It's really great to have you here with us tonight. Next on our panel is Amy McDuffie joining us from North Carolina. Amy, can you please share your background and the work you do at Beyond BookSmart?Amy McDuffie 03:56Yes, thank you, Hannah. Hi, everyone. I have been a coach with Beyond BookSmart for the past two years. And I'm also a member of our hiring team and an executive function consultant. I use she/her pronouns and my background is in special education, specifically in behavior and learning disabilities working with students from elementary through high school. I'm also a former behavior specialist supporting students from kindergarten through eighth grade with a focus on social emotional learning. I'm also the parent of two pretty awesome teens. I have a 14 year old daughter and a 17 year old son. And I'm so glad that you all are here and I'm really excited to be with you.Hannah Choi 04:39Thank you and welcome, Amy. All right. So let's get started. Motivation itself is not an executive function skill, but it is supported by and made much easier by a bunch of EF skills. If you hear me say EF it's short for executive function. Cognitive flexibility is needed to imagine a future state that is different from now and come up with ways to achieve it. Working memory helps to keep that future goal in mind. organization and planning are needed to sequence the actions to get ourselves to that future state. And task initiation gets it all going. And emotional regulation helps us maintain optimism and persevere despite setbacks. So it's not really surprising that kids with EF weaknesses or ADHD can have concurrent issues with motivation. However, these underlying executive function challenges are often to ignore are often ignored, or unrecognized, or worse, misconstrued as laziness. So all of these EF skills that help with motivation live in the prefrontal cortex, our thinking brain, it's right behind your forehead. So if we have these prefrontal cortexes and EF skills that are supposed to be helping with motivation, why is it still so hard to get motivated? For kids, one huge part of the answer to that question is that their executive function skills are still developing, they're still emerging. And these skills don't fully develop until our mid to late 20s. So in addition to not having access to fully developed EF skills, they also don't have as many years of experience as we do, and learning like what works and what doesn't work. And remembering this can help us be empathetic to our children when they're struggling with motivation. They're not doing it intentionally, or to be contrary, although it can feel that way. They're lacking the skills. And when we view their behavior only through our adult lens, it can set up unrealistic expectations for them. Hannah Choi 06:44Our motivation, and the related EF skills can also be impacted by systems in the brain. The limbic system, and especially the amygdala, which detects threats cannot differentiate between real threats like a car accident, or a bear attack, and perceived threats, like a lot of homework or having to clean your room. And so the limbic system detects the threats, and then says, "Alert, alert, get out of here or fight back, because this does not feel good". And in doing this, it actually hijacks the thinking part of our brain, and it sucks energy and blood and oxygen away from it, and makes it harder, sometimes even impossible to access our EF skills, which as we know, we need to motivate ourselves to do the things we don't want to do. So managing our emotions so that we can stay in the thinking part of our brain is a huge part of conquering motivation. So stay tuned, because we're going to cover the executive function skill of emotional regulation benefit. Another really, really, really important thing to look at is the ADHD brain, and how motivation is impacted by ADHD. Amy, you are our ADHD expert. Can you explain this for us?Amy McDuffie 08:00Yes, thanks, Hannah. So there's some fascinating research on the impact of ADHD on motivation. And understanding these dynamics can really help us to empathize with individuals with ADHD. So ADHD is associated with lower levels of the neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine. And this changes how the ADHD brain perceives both reward and pleasure, which causes a lack of enthusiasm for starting or completing tasks. So this might be one reason you have difficulty with motivation if you have ADHD. And this can also mean that kids with ADHD experience much more frustration and failure than they do success, which has a negative impact on their self perception and also increases stress. So this can become a real barrier to getting started, it can become a self reinforcing negative cycle, and also results in less efficient processing because all that stress just makes the brain shut down. And another big difference in the ADHD brain involves the brain structure called the default mode network, which is the part of the brain that activates when we're daydreaming or not focused on a task or activity. And when the brain is directed towards a task or goal, the default network deactivates. But in ADHD, this part of the brain is more often activated, which leads to your focus constantly being pulled away from what you're doing in the moment, and toward completely unrelated thoughts. So that explains why staying focused on really tedious or repetitive tasks can be such a chore with ADHD. It really isn't a matter of will, it's a matter of neurology, and that's why brain based interventions can be really effective for individuals with ADHD. Hannah Choi 09:56Yes, thank you so much, Amy for that. I know it really helps me to understand what's going on in the brain. And I always work with my clients to help them understand. So I hope you all found that helpful too. And if you're concerned that the causes of lack of motivation in you or your child run deeper than EF challenges or ADHD, please reach out to a mental health provider to explore the possibility of depression or another diagnosis. Hannah Choi 10:25Okay, so now that we have a better understanding of how executive function challenges and learning differences, like ADHD can impact motivation, we can see how the label of "laziness" is often unfair. Yet, it can often go a step further, being repeatedly told you're lazy, can weave itself into our perception of ourselves and our inner narrative, like Amy said, and it makes it harder to break free from the label, as you may even begin to believe it yourself. And this is where having someone you can rely on for support, who's outside of yourself, who doesn't have the same perspective of you. And that becomes essential, they can help break those narratives and introduce new habits and ways of thinking. And I know this comes up often for us coaches, and so Vin, could you share a little bit about how you approach breaking that negative narrative with your coaching clients?Vin Kachuik 11:17Yeah, I'm happy to. So as Amy and Hannah both mentioned, that negative thought cycle can be really, really debilitating. So one of the first things I focus on with clients is finding and celebrating those easy wins. My favorite approaches to this are things like acknowledging overlooked successes, and also finding simple goals that are fairly quick to accomplish with little support. So for instance, if a client tells me that every day they get up with their alarm, I am just over the moon for them like to do that consistently is an absolutely amazing skill. It's a solid routine they can build other routines off of and it obviously not everybody can do that. And this shifts the perspective from what the client is not doing that largely comes from those expectations to what they are doing, showing them that they have skills and strengths to be confident in. And if that same client tells me that they want to do something like keep their clothes off the floor, but they just can't start that task of picking them, picking them up and organizing them. A simple win could be just taking the time to say, let's try it now and see what we can get done. There's no expectation of completion of the task here. The goal is to take some of the stress out of just initiating that task, and celebrate whatever progress comes of it, which can often be enough to sort of break that negative mindset. With both of these approaches, though, I always try to understand why the client wants to accomplish a certain task. Because often what reinforces the negative cycle are expectations that don't value the same things that our clients do. undervaluing the ability to consistently get up with your alarm makes the very tools that can help our clients seem worthless to them. And overvaluing. A tidy room can negatively incentivize our clients to prioritize a task that isn't really important to them and often sets them up for failure. So to kind of put it simply -"too long, didn't read", to help turn someone's negative narrative into a positive narrative set up and celebrate an easy win to show them their value, and then reflect on what they value and why.Hannah Choi 13:36Thank you so much. And I love that someone submitted this request with their webinar registration, which I think many of us will relate to. And it also gets to the "why" that Vin was just talking about. One registrant wrote, "Please help me understand why my son can be so motivated to get schoolwork done, but says that closing his dresser drawers and picking clothes up off the floor or cooking himself oatmeal is too much work". This is such a great question because it illustrates how much motivation is affected by whether we want to do this thing or not, whether it's important to us or not. And our parent perspective sure can be very different from our kid's, or even our partner's. So in this example, the student is more motivated to do schoolwork than household tasks. And it may be because his schoolwork is just more important to him. But to his parent, those household tasks are also really important. So how can we reconcile these differences in perspectives? Let's check in with our coaches to see what they have to say.Amy McDuffie 14:44All right, so I want to talk to you about a tool called HALT which stands for hungry, angry or anxious, lonely and tired, which I find to be really helpful to use this tool. These are all general triggers that can lead to poor self-control. And this is a good tool to use before addressing those differences in perspectives and just communication in general. You know, we all know that if someone initiates an important conversation when we're exhausted or haven't eaten all day, it's so much harder to receive the information and have a productive conversation. We're just not as great at communicating when those needs aren't met. And speaking of communicating with our kids, I know that we all want to help to problem solve to jump in and be a fixer. But we really have to remind ourselves that listening is the most important thing we can do when our kids open up to us. And this requires us to really tune in and avoid focusing on our own responses while our kids share their struggles with us. Our colleague, Denise taught me the acronym "WAIT" which stands for "Why Am I Talking?" as a reminder to just listen, we also have to remember that our kids experiences are very different from ours, we really have no idea what it's like to grow up in 2023. And it's just not helpful to operate from the place of "When I was your age...".Vin Kachuik 16:17That's so true, Amy, thank you. And another tool to kind of go along with that that I like a lot for this is Covey quadrants, Covey quadrants or sometimes referred to as the Covey Time Management Matrix, or the Eisenhower Matrix - it's got a lot of names- for prioritizing time, and tasks. So essentially, each task is classified by its urgency and importance, which then organizes it in to one of the four quadrants shown here. So quadrant one is the urgent and important quadrant, it's the top priority, the thing you really need to get done now. An example might be the big math exam is tomorrow, and you need to prepare. The action for this is do it to the best of your ability, complete that task as you can. But keep in mind that putting too many tasks in this quadrant can be overwhelming, and often causes burnout, which may be why, you know, in the question, the kid was like, "Oh, I can't make oatmeal, but I can do my homework". Well, that's because that quadrant was already full. In quadrant two, the not urgent but important quadrant. That's for things like keeping up with an exercise routine. The action for that is scheduled it. This is something that you want to make as routine as you possibly can. And because this is where the deep work and skill building really happens and where most people tend to be at their best. Quadrant three, urgent but not important. Something like it's garbage day, your chores need to be done tonight. An action for that is to either delegate it or ask for help with it. This quadrant often involves learning to set boundaries, and advocating for yourself by asking for help when it's needed, or learning to say no to what you can't accomplish. And lastly, Quadrant Four, the not urgent and not important quadrant. That's for things like watching Tik Toks, or TV. The action for this is unfortunately "delete it". These are often low value instant gratification and avoidance coping strategies, which isn't to say you can never enjoy a little fun and leisure time, but just not to the detriment of other priorities. Vin Kachuik 18:36So if defining urgency and important importance feels a little too subjective to you, something you can do is use just a simple one to 10 rating scale to help clarify the value of each task. Using this framework allows us to better see and illustrate our own value systems. But the most important important part of this is following up with those tasks that aren't as valued. For instance, watching hours of Tik Toks not as an act of laziness or defiance, but recognizing it as a poor coping strategy when faced with a bunch of disorganized and overwhelming tasks that you don't know how to start or manage. Recognizing this provides an opportunity, like Amy was saying, to better understand differing perspectives, and reconcile those differences in expectations that can often lead to conflict.Hannah Choi 19:28Thank you for those, Vin and Amy. And the other strategy that may help with sharing expectations and understanding perspectives is family meetings. And there's a lot of great resources online for learning how to hold effective family meetings. And yes, you'll probably get some pushback from the kids but stick with it. The experts promise that it's worth it in the long run. And you'll want to keep that HALT tool in mind and make sure everyone is well fed and rested before you start the meeting. Hannah Choi 19:54All right, so now that we've learned about the development of executive function skills, motivation and the the brain and how differing perspectives can play a part? Let's look at some specific tools that can support motivation. As many of you asked about this, then and Amy, what are your favorite tools and strategies through their coaching clients to help them get motivated?Vin Kachuik 20:16Oh, so one of my favorite one, it's actually two tools, I use them together. It's a combination of first step and five minute goals. These are two of my absolute favorites. And I tell clients to use this all the time, I find is really effective for task initiation, which can often be the most challenging part of any task. As the name suggests, first step is all about finding the first step to a task that makes sense. And five minute goals makes doing that step seem a little bit more manageable by setting the expectation of only having to do that task for, you guessed it five minutes, after those five minutes, if it's not so bad, then you know, keep going, great. If you can't do it any more than just celebrate that you did at least five minutes of work, which is infinitely more than doing nothing. It seems simple and straightforward. But part of why this is so effective, is that more often than not, we tend to view tasks based on their last step, we make dinner, we finish our homework, we go for a run, and so on. And we lose sight of the initial steps that we need to get there, like deciding what to make for dinner, gathering homework, materials, and warming up for a run. But even knowing where to start isn't always enough to muster the motivation, especially when the steps that follow feel big and insurmountable. So this is really where five minute goals comes in, to better manage those expectations and keep the focus more on those short term steps that ultimately lead you to that task completion.Amy McDuffie 21:50Thanks, Vin, that's really helpful. Another tool that that I like to use to address motivation is called decisional balance. And this tool examines the potential benefits and costs of making a change, and also for keeping things the same. And this can really help determine why making the change or doing the thing is important to you. Even if it's something that you find really mundane, you know, thinking about, is there some bigger benefit down the road. You know, motivation can really be impacted about how we feel about a task. And I just think this is a really great tool. It also supports self regulation, metacognition, and even planning, prioritization and time management skills.Hannah Choi 22:37Yes, thank you, Amy. And I wanted to bring up Covey Quadrants one more time, because in addition to helping us understand each other's perspectives, as Vin shared with us, this tool can also help us with motivation. And by completing the activity of the covey quadrants, you practice the executive function skills of planning and prioritizing. And Covey quadrants can help you define what you truly need to work on first, and because sometimes it can feel like everything is urgent and important, which can make it hard to get started. And so Covey quadrants kind of helps you narrow it down. And it can also remind you of those quadrants and those activities, sorry, in quadrant four, which might provide temporary relief from the discomfort of doing the things in quadrant one and three. But in the long run, these activities can have negative consequences. They divert time away from the important and urgent tasks in quadrant one. And they also divert time away from those energy giving and rewarding activities that are in quadrant two. And if you're having trouble getting buy-in from your child, or even yourself, to do this whole Covey quadrant exercise, you might instead try simply making a list of everything that needs to get done. It sounds simple, but it really does help to get it out of your brain and onto paper. And just like Vin said, thinking about tasks as a whole can feel insurmountable, but seeing them written down one by one can help. Hannah Choi 24:04Okay, so let's quickly visit the emotional right? Let's quickly visit emotional regulation. That's an executive function skill that is key to pretty much everything. That was what we - I mentioned that back when we were talking about the brain. So as we learned, being able to regulate our emotions is a huge, huge piece of the motivation puzzle. And it's much harder to use our EF skills to complete or even start a task if our emotional brain is taking control of the situation, instead of our thinking brain. So panelists, would you please share your favorite emotional regulation tools that help us stay in our thinking brain?Vin Kachuik 24:46Yeah, sure. I'm personally a big fan of breathing - Need it to stay alive but some simple deep breathing techniques can also do wonders for emotional regulation, especially with just a little bit of practice. What I'm particularly fond of is the four by four square breathing technique. So you breathe in for four, hold for four, breathe out for four, and hold for four. And there's tons of other variations on that as well. There's ones with visuals, geometric visuals and meditations to follow and things like that. But what I find most effective about this is that it gives something specific to focus on the counting, or the visual gives you something specific. I hear a lot from my clients, especially those with ADHD, that they just they cannot meditate, because they can't keep their mind clear, there's just too many thoughts. And they don't know how to put them aside, counting using the four by four can aid that focus to practice deep breathing, even without a clear mind, and you still get the one of the most beneficial parts of meditation from that.Amy McDuffie 25:53I totally agree with you, Vin. Breathing is such an important tool for emotional regulation. And going back to our HALT tool for just a moment, I think we also need to be mindful of the role that sleep plays and emotional regulation, we can probably all attest to the effects of a poor night's sleep, you know, we tend to be so much more irritable and vulnerable to stress without sleep. So just a few tips for improving sleep, are sticking to a regular wakeup time each day, getting some sunshine in the morning, if possible. This really just helps to reset our internal clocks, and making your bed a sleep haven. So avoiding using it for work or homework. And also avoiding blue screen light because that really stimulates our brains. I also encourage clients to establish a bedtime routine that includes calming activities, leading up to that time, you know, something like reading or practicing that deep breathing. Even using an adult coloring book can be really soothing, really just anything that signals to our brains that we are preparing for sleep.Hannah Choi 27:04 Yes, so important. Thank you so much for sharing those, Amy and Vin, those I use those, they work very well for me. And I also need to make sure I get a lot of exercise. And I also noticed my kids do a lot better when they've been active. So something to remember is that with these emotional regulation tools, and any of the other tools we mentioned tonight, we have to practice them regularly for them to do us any good. They need to be able to come easily to us when we need them. And that's only going to happen if we practice them. And sometimes kids can be resistant to using external tools. So what we can do is normalize using them by using them ourselves. And we can show them like, "Hey, I'm gonna write this down. So I don't forget it" or "My day is going to be crazy. So I'm going to write down everything that I need to do". And so showing them that you can use those external tools and have it be really helpful. Okay, so we're going to jump into our Q&A, and see what questions we can answer for you. Thank you for dropping some in there. Let's see. Hey, Amy, would you like to share how we can teach executive function skills over the summer summers coming up?Amy McDuffie 28:15Sure. I think summer is a really great time as coaches to work with clients on EF skills, because it really gives us the opportunity to work with clients in a you know, low stakes, low pressure situation, you know, looking at what their goals are, what their interests are. Personally, I have really enjoyed coaching in the summer by tapping into clients' interests. Last summer, I worked with a client who wanted to learn how to create a graphic novel. So we took that project and, you know, basically identified all the tiny steps to take along the way to, you know, to reach the bigger goal of developing that graphic novel and worked in so many EF skills along the way. So, yeah, there's just so many fun things to do over the summer with coaching.Hannah Choi 29:11Great, thank you. All right. So let's see. Here's another one. What are some strategies to help kids who know what they are supposed to do and how, but still avoid the task because they find it boring, time consuming and not engaging for their level of intelligence?Vin Kachuik 29:30I can take that one. Hannah Choi 29:33Okay, thanks, Vin. Vin Kachuik 29:35There's so first of all, a little personal background from that -been there. And both personally and professionally. One of the best recommendations I have is, honestly, I had another layer of challenge to what they're doing. I mean, a lot of times creativity and intelligence kind of go hand in hand. And so there's a lot of opportunity to invite a creative perspective on how They approached that work, maybe, you know, taking it up a notch to do beyond what the assignment asks for. And to do part that something is a little bit more interest to them, even if it means a little bit more work, at least there'll be a little bit more engaged in doing that. And sometimes to the other option, that I find is that a lot of times, a lot of times clients and students who have done that, or struggle with that, they're not being challenged enough in other ways, even just beyond the classroom. So even just affording an opportunity prioritizing something that is more fun and stimulating to them, can kind of open them up to like, Okay, well, that was great. So I feel good. Now I can just tackle these other tasks. Easy peasy.Hannah Choi 30:48Yes,Amy McDuffie 30:49I love that. Hannah Choi 30:50All right, I see a question that I'm gonna steal. How do you stay motivated through transitions, my kids always struggle with change, and their already rocky systems tend to crumble? Yes, this is very tricky. I actually interviewed a licensed clinical social worker for this, her name is Rachel Hulstein-Lowe. And you can listen to that episode, if you go back a few episodes in there in our podcast. And yeah, we talked for a long time about that, and how challenging that really is. And those transitions can come, they can be expected transitions, like the beginning of the school year, the end of the school year holidays, or they can be unexpected transitions, like you have to move or, you know, just some some unexpected change that can happen. And the most important thing is to have some thing for your kids to fall back on. So they have like a really safe place at home, they feel really comfortable at home. So a lot of that, like validation and connection that we can make with our kids to to give them a safe place to feel to be. And then also the sleep, nutrition, exercise. Those three are huge. Without taking care of those, it's very difficult to manage those already rocky systems. And so it can sound silly to just to say that those are important, but they truly, truly are. And then also practicing some mindfulness can be really helpful too. So, you know, just take some time to be in your body and to see how you feel. And to just check in with that can also be really helpful with that emotional regulation that comes with those challenging transitions. Hannah Choi 32:36So, all right. Let's see. Um, let's see, how do you support a 10 year old who is reluctant to change? Anybody want want to dive in for that?Amy McDuffie 32:54I'm happy to jump in on that one.Hannah Choi 32:57Thanks, Amy.Amy McDuffie 32:57Thank you. Sure. So working with with a younger client who's reluctant to change, you know, I think it all comes down to just being able to connect with them and find out what's important to them, even at 10 years old, they're gonna have strong opinions and interests of their own. So I think it's really important to tap into that with them. And then, you know, also see, you know, what is motivating to them? What are they motivated by in their interests? And, you know, look at, you know, kind of bigger picture, like, do they see areas where, you know, of their strengths, what are their strengths and areas that they need to, you know, maybe potentially grow in. And if you're able to kind of, you know, access that that gives you an opportunity to really work with them on, you know, let's see where we can make some small changes and just kind of experiment with some making some changes and see what happens.Hannah Choi 33:59Yeah, and that's why when we work with our clients, we never, like give extra work or anything, we just work with what our clients are already doing. So that can be helpful to get that buy in and make that connection is, in some is meeting them where they are. Hannah Choi 34:20All right, let's see, oh, someone would like Vin to share a few more examples of how to increase engagement by adding a layer of challenge.Vin Kachuik 34:30Sure. So one that I like a lot, actually. And this helps in two ways is actually timing your work giving limited chunks of time to do it. So basically challenging, so like, how can you get this done in an hour? Yeah, you're smart. You're good at writing, right? You know, can you write this paper in an hour? I bet you can. Yeah. And not only so that does a couple of things. One, it gives them a time limit to stay focused on the task. so they don't sort of lose themselves in the weeds and get bored. And then again, adds that layer of challenge to it. But the other could be something along the lines of, you know, giving them the freedom and flexibility or challenging them to do extra research into what they're doing. You know, if they're doing a set of math problems they know how to do, and it's just really boring to them. Then you ask them to maybe find new math problems or harder math problems, ask them to explain those math problems, to you to be the authority to be the teacher is the all of these are really good ways to add an extra level of challenge and also responsibility that can kind of take them out of that. This is routine. This is boring, I don't want to do it, feeling.Hannah Choi 35:47Love it. Let's go back to the brain. Amy, you noted that low levels of neurotransmitters means that successes can be less reinforcing for those with ADHD. If this is the case, do small wins or other strategies help someone with ADHD initiate tasks?Amy McDuffie 36:06That is such a great question, isn't it? Yes, yes. So yes, the answer is yes. Those small wins, absolutely help someone with ADHD, initiate tasks. As coaches, our job is often to help clients recognize those small wins, I find that working with clients with ADHD, they tend to have more difficulty, you know, recognizing what the small wins are, or just not seeing not seeing them at all. And we really have to, you know, look for those small steps that they're taking, and help them to recognize that, you know, because that's a bigger part of the issue is, you know, the, the negative reinforcement that they've received, and, you know, kind of that perpetuating, you know, narrative, and, you know, experiences of failures. So, it really is helpful to recognize even what we consider those small wins to help them get started.Hannah Choi 37:08That's great. Thank you. All right. My child is entering college in the fall. Any tips to help prepare for this change? It's a big one.Vin Kachuik 37:20Oh, man. So there's, yeah, there's a lot college is crazy. There's a lot to prepare for, for that. Um, honestly, I think the biggest thing and the most price specific advice I can get give is self advocacy. It's navigating college is really a matter. Like, I there's this mentality, that when you go into college, you have to listen to what everybody else says and does all the time. But like they're there to serve you. You're paying to go there, your education is a matter of what you choose and get out of it. So there's a lot of self advocacy needed, especially in terms of saying, hey, I need help with this, Hey, I need help with that. How do I do this? And there's tons of resources on campus, the best and most successful students I've seen are the ones who are not afraid to walk into somebody's office and be like, Hey, can you help me? And like, nine times out of 10, that person will, because that's their job. That's what they're there to do. So tell them you know, really tell them, Don't be afraid. You are ruler of the roost, king of the castle, they're, they're there to help, you know, and you have to advocate for what you need.Hannah Choi 38:32Yes, I always encourag/make my college clients make sure that their teacher knows their name by the end of the second week. And it has come in handy. So many times when they've had to remember I had one client who had to miss midterm because she was really sick but because she had developed a relationship with a teacher, that teacher was completely understanding and was really gentle with her and allowed her to schedule it on a different day.Vin Kachuik 39:04And the more you talk, the more you self advocate that yes, yes. And absolutely. And it makes that whole process so much smoother.Hannah Choi 39:12Yes, a lot of feedback that I get from my college clients is that they were scared or really nervous to approach their teacher. But then afterwards, they realize, Oh, they're just human. And then they were not they realized that they didn't have to be nervous, and then it was just so easy to do it the next semester. Yeah. Something else that I recommend for for entering college is just understanding that 80/20 switch. So when you're in high school, you know, like, the 80% of it is done, maybe like in in school, or with a lot of support and then 20% of it you're going to do on your own, but it's the complete opposite in college and there's just 20% of support given and then you are sponsible for that other 80%. And that can be really shocking. I had a client say to me, I realized that I have to spread out my work over a few days, and not just do it all like the night before it's due, which is usually what we have to do in high school, just do it the night before it's due. So that's a good thing to keep in mind. Hannah Choi 40:18All right, um, okay, so since this webinar addresses kids, are there any suggestions for motivation that apply to adults? I just want to say that everything all of this can use for adults.Vin Kachuik 40:37Apps? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, really, any of this, this, this is not stuff that's unique to kids. There's plenty of adults who struggle with this, I would say, probably the best suggestions I have are for really kind of going back to that self reflection and understanding your values value system. It can get very easy to get sucked into the rat race of doing things to other people's expectations, and to the detriment of yourself. So I would say the tools that we use, like HALT, you know, checking, regulating yourself that way, because you can't help anybody else. If you haven't helped yourself, it's like oxygen masks on an airplane. And, and honestly, also, the Covey quadrants are a great way to kind of break down your day and your routine and say, like, what is really important to me right now? Yeah, it literally addresses that what is important, because it can be easy to get lost in things like saying, Well, my work is important, doing the dishes are important. But maybe in a given moment, spending some time with your family is actually the thing that's most important, it gives you that that sense of longing, or that sense of sorry, family and like reduces that sense of longing that you may feel that loneliness and HALT, right, and also just strengthens those bonds.Hannah Choi 42:03I love that. All right. I think we have time for one more. Do you have a suggestion of digital planners or calendars for those who have reading and writing struggles, maybe dyslexia and ADHD, who need more executive function help?Amy McDuffie 42:21I'm happy to jump on this one, Hannah. Thanks, Amy. Sure, sure. So absolutely. Digital planners and calendars are so helpful. I highly recommend Google Calendar, it's easy to use, it syncs across devices. And you know, even you know, younger children with access can even utilize them as well. I utilize them with both of my children just with us planning events and appointments so that they know what's coming up. And it's really helpful. There are so many other apps to use. As planners as well, there's iStudiesPro, My Study Life, I know that that one is free, and I believe it was actually developed by a students with along with her mom, it's a really good one. And I know a lot of clients who also use the Todoist app as well. So there are just a number of them out there. And just on a personal level, I also really, I knew this is not digital, but I use a bullet journal for myself along with my Google calendar. And it's just a great way to kind of list out all of my to do's each day in conjunction with my calendar.Vin Kachuik 43:37I add one thing to that bullet journal. Yeah, they did the motivation. One of the things I love about physical planners, is I always suggest to my clients, customize them personalized for them, and stickers, raw all over them. Because honestly, we like pretty things. And if it's pretty attractive, we're gonna use it more. Absolutely.Hannah Choi 44:01I love it. That's my combo, too is the Google Calendar and a bullet journal can't live without it. Hannah Choi 44:08Okay, so this is where we ended our Q&A section of the webinar. Now keep listening to hear the rest of the conversation that I recorded with Amy and Vin the next morning, which I might add was Vin's first day of vacation. Thank you, Vin for taking some time out of your first day off to add your insights to our answers to these great questions. Hannah Choi 44:31Hey, Vin and Amy, welcome back. We had so many awesome questions at the end of last night's webinar that we just really wanted to get back into and answer some of them right. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for joining me again.Vin Kachuik 44:48Sure. Thanks so much. It was great last night. Yeah.Amy McDuffie 44:51It was so fun.Hannah Choi 44:54Yeah, people ask such good questions, too. I always wish we could see them. That's the one thing that I don't like about I did it. I feel a little disconnected from our audience. So. Vin Kachuik 45:04So that is the part that you miss. Yeah, getting that like good audience feedback is really?Hannah Choi 45:13Yeah, it's like everyone has masks on, right? Yeah. Yeah, so let's dive in. Let's see, what's the first one? All right, what are the strategies to develop motivation and teenagers with Oppositional Defiant Disorder? What a great question.Amy McDuffie 45:34That is a really, really good question, Hannah. Honestly, I think that the strategies are pretty much the same as what we have already discussed. But just knowing that it takes so much more time, a lot of patience, you know, to work through those strategies. And, you know, really sharpening this communication skills that we had talked about is really, really important here. And I think that, you know, any opportunities for, you know, autonomy, and, you know, giving the child ownership in the process is super important in these situations.Vin Kachuik 46:14Amy? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean interrupt. I just in the webinar last night, you talked about like, the there's a lot of talk about, like the neurotransmitters basically, acknowledging the bad more than the good a lot of times. And do you think that Oppositional Defiant Disorder, like one of the issues is that being told to do something takes away that feeling of personal success and value of the task? Because you're doing it for somebody else's expectation? And not really your own? That makes it feel like extra negative? I don't know, does that tie in at all?Amy McDuffie 46:46I think it does, because I think that, you know, again, that that piece of autonomy is so important here. So I think that's a really good point, then. And, you know, kind of going back to that, you know, negative track piece, I think that this is another situation where, I mean, that's a hard diagnosis to have for a kid. It really is. And, you know, I'm always concerned, like when I see that label of what the child's perception is, and what they understand about that. So I think that that's all really important to take into account here. And I really love I love working with, with teens and kids that, you know, have ODD because I feel like, it's such a great opportunity to really connect with them. And that is the most important piece and to build that trust. And just to get to know them as a person versus, you know, what the, you know, what the label says, or what the challenges are. And something that I have found to be really effective is, you know, really trying to set them up for opportunities for success, you know, what are their strengths? And, you know, giving them opportunities for leadership, you know, how can we build their self confidence, you know, to combat some of that, you know, the negative, you know, framing that they've had for however long.Vin Kachuik 48:13Ties back into those easy wins strategy, like acknowledging what they're good at? And yeah, what's that? What's an easy task that we can support that they can do well.Amy McDuffie 48:22exactly, exactly. Yeah,Hannah Choi 48:24I had a, I had a client who I started working with her when she was a junior, and then through her senior year, and she had oppositional defiant disorder. And, and I did notice that, in the beginning, it was, well, I just noticed that biggest change in our interactions and her openness to try new things, was after a while, and after she learned that she could really trust me, and that I was like, trying to help her build that autonomy. And it took a while, but I did see a big shift in in her. I don't know her willingness to work with me, and to work on making some change after we had developed a really strong rapport.Amy McDuffie 49:10That collaboration piece is just so so important here. So yeah, great,Vin Kachuik 49:16Honestly, that I feel like that kind of ties into, because I saw that a lot with like, college age clients back when I used to teach college too. There's that mindset of, well, I have to only do what I'm told and I can't do. Like, I'd like I can have autonomy. What is that? I don't know her. And, like, I think that really ties into a lot of the struggle kind of jumping ahead of like pursuing the support services in college that we were alluding to back in the webinar. Like, I know that admitting admitting that you need help, too, is also a really hard part of the process. And again, I feel like the autonomy and the trust are the big parts of getting somebody to admit that they need help, like knowing that they're not going to be chastised for it or, you know, like made fun of or torn down or anything like that. Because again, there's just there's so much I hesitate to say fragile ego. But when, when the systems that you've been taught aren't working for you, and you've spent your whole life feeling like you're behind everybody else, you know, where do you develop the self esteem and the self confidence? You know?Hannah Choi 50:32Yeah. All right. And actually, I love that we started talking about that, because that was one of our additional questions that we got last night, pursuing us support services in college. So that's great. We addressed that as well. All right, I'm kind of on the same theme. is starting school, a starting a new school, a good time to start new habits? Or is that too much? What are your thoughts on that?Amy McDuffie 51:00I love that question. I think it's the perfect time to start new habits, because you know, starting a new school or a new school year, I mean, that is that is a fresh start. So I feel like that's the perfect opportunity to try doing some things differently. You know, getting into a different routine, and establishing, you know, those habits, figuring out what works. So yeah, I think it's the perfect time. Hannah Choi 51:27I think Vin's point about like, small, small things, like start small, maybe not overhaul your entire life.Vin Kachuik 51:37But I think another advantage of starting fresh is that there's fewer bad habits to have to break or overcome. First. I mean, that's one of the things that's kind of difficult about habit building, we'd like to think in terms of like building good ones. But a lot of times that means overcoming bad one, yes. Once that we don't even realize or habit. Right? Right, right. So starting in a new situation, you're a little bit more self aware. Sometimes that translates to self conscious, which can be a little overwhelming, but you know, you're more aware of new surroundings and all of that. So I think it's easier to avoid falling back into bad habits and building new ones fresh, as long as you start small.Hannah Choi 52:18Yeah, yeah. And I think it's really important to take time to reflect on what your previous experience has been, and what you liked about that, what worked for you and what didn't work for you, and what you want to change in the future. Because if you can spend some time having that conversation with someone who's going to be really supportive and open for that conversation, it can really help to narrow down what you want to start with, like what, what small goals you want to set for yourself. So that self reflection piece is really helpful in that in that instance. Great,Vin Kachuik 52:56Aefinitely a challenge of habit building, though, is taking it not just starting small, but taking a theoretically, I'm just like thinking, I'm thinking of the example of like all the people who are like, you know, New Year's resolutions style habit building of like, I'm gonna start my new diet and go to the gym, and, you know, I'm gonna be perfect and all of that. And it's like, okay, good luck with that, because, like, new skills and habits, you know, and you're like, expecting results in a day and setting super high expectations, and it just doesn't work that way.Amy McDuffie 53:26Yeah. And I think that like, that's a big piece of starting, you know, starting anything new is also looking at, like, you know, what's likely to trip you up? What's likely to get in the way here of, of this working for me, because it's, I think it's really easy for us all to, you know, to set goals. And unless we look at like, really, what are the obstacles? And how do I address those? You know, I think we can not be as successful if we don't look at those pieces too.Vin Kachuik 53:57Reckless ambition, the dark side of motivation.Hannah Choi 54:02I always ask my clients is the goal that you're setting realistic and reasonable, right? Like, be honest, let's look at you know, all of your life experience so far, Is this realistic and reasonable? Because you want to set yourself up for success? Nothing worse than not reaching any of your goals because you've set them too big? Right? Hannah Choi 54:24Um, okay. Here's a coaching question. How often would someone need to meet with an executive functioning coach to make it effective? Once a week, every other week more than once a week? I think well, it just really depends on the client. I think once a week is a great starting place. Sometimes I've done twice a week, maybe broken that larger time down into smaller chunks. What about you guys?Amy McDuffie 54:54Yeah, I do think it's a good place to place to start Excuse me. You know, just depending on what the needs are, and you can always, you know, make adjustments from there.Hannah Choi 55:04I think what it comes down to is consistency. Right? Right. So whatever, whatever you determine is the right amount of sessions or the right duration or frequency. It's the consistency makes a huge difference. Very important with anything, right? Yeah. Yeah, true. Basically with anything.Amy McDuffie 55:23Yeah, keeping that momentum going is so important.Hannah Choi 55:28Yeah, yep. Yep. All right, once a child gets interested in something that they wanted to do, how do you keep them motivated to continue with it, like clubs, clubs or sports, they love the sport and playing, but they don't want to go to practice.Amy McDuffie 55:43Oh, my goodness, this is so familiar, Hannah, just as a parent. So my, my response to this might be a little, a little different. But I just having had personal experience with this in my home with my kids. I, you know, we do things a little differently now. And, you know, when there's interest in, let's say, playing soccer this season, you know, we sit down and have the conversation about what those expectations are, and what it means to commit to doing this thing. You know, there gonna be days where you don't feel like going or you don't want to go, or you're just not as interested at times. But you know, we really talk about is upfront expectations so that we know what we're getting into. And, and the follow through that, like, okay, so you want to do this, and, you know, we're committing to do this for the next couple of months. And that means going to practice and just kind of laying it all out there before, you know, officially signing on to take on this thing. And you know, beyond that, if you decide you don't ever want to do it again, that's totally fine. We can look at other things. But, you know, again, I think it comes down to just having those conversations upfront about the expectations. And, you know, it's another opportunity to look at, you know, look at the why, like, why do you want to do it, and also look at, you know, those opportunities for successes, you know, within whatever the activity they're doing.Hannah Choi 57:14Yeah, my kids, both my kids both play instruments. And so we deal with this a lot. They both been playing for a few years. And so it comes up a lot that they're just like, I don't want to practice. And something that something that is important to me is that it is okay for our kids to have discomfort. It is okay for them to to feel like, this doesn't feel good. And I don't want to do this. But I signed up, I made the commitment. So I have to do it. If we always protect our kids from those feelings, and then say, okay, you don't have to do it. I know you signed up for it. But now you don't have to do it. Because you don't want to. No, like, I think they need to follow through on the commitment that they made. And yeah, they're gonna feel some discomfort. But they're also, you know, like you said, the expectations were set up. So now they need to follow through. And there's so many lessons to be learned in that experience. Yeah, it feels awful. But hey, you're part of a team, or you made a commitment to your teacher or whatever, whatever that commitment is that you made. I do think it is a great opportunity to teach kids about learning about that.Amy McDuffie 58:31Absolutely. And about perseverance, too. So yeah,Vin Kachuik 58:35Yeah, that discomfort really like learning to sit with that discomfort, is what helps you switch your perspective, from have to, to get to, which is very important for keeping up with that consistency. Because if you think of it is just a burden or responsibility, like, I have to go to practice. Yeah, that may not be the fun part. The fun part, maybe the game, maybe you like the sense of competition, you'd like to, you know, high intense energy, or maybe you just like the performing part or playing around with your new instrument or whatever. Practice is hard, but it's what allows you getting to do that is what allows you to get to the fun parts as well. Hannah Choi 59:18Yeah, and be better at the fun part. Vin Kachuik 59:19Yes, it'd be better like it makes it more enjoyable. Hannah Choi 59:23Yeah. Yeah. My dad said to my daughter, he's a musician too. And he said, you know, what the, your motivation should be for practicing is so you don't feel like a jerk at rehearsal when you're the only person who can't keep up with the music. Practice so you feel confident at rehearsal. That's great. Yeah. One of my favorite quotes ever is by a psychologist called Susan David. And if you guys haven't looked into her stuff before, you got to read it, read her things. It's, she's amazing. And she has this quote that, ah, "Discomfort is the price of admission to a meaningful life". And I just love that. And so whenever I'm in a situation where I am feeling uncomfortable, I just remind myself like something good is gonna come out of this, you're going to learn from this, you're going to have some amazing experience or whatever. And it truly is. So, it's good for kids, too.Vin Kachuik 1:00:21of emotionally regulating that I can't stress the breathing enough and hold. Back to those references again. Like if you can't stand the discomfort, a there's either something wrong, you need to, you know, eat some food, drink some water, get some sleep, something like that. But like, if you all those needs are met, then just breathe. It makes it so much better. Just breathe few deep breaths.Amy McDuffie 1:00:45Yep, yep.Hannah Choi 1:00:48All right. Lessons for life. Just breathe, just breathe. Vin Kachuik 1:00:53It's literally a function of living. Hannah Choi 1:00:57Oh, my God, that was so funny when you said that last night. All right. Let's see. Here's, I think this is our last question. All right, my 19 year old son told me he's terrified about trying his hardest only to still fail. In the end. What are we just talking about? It breaks my heart. How do you address issues around motivation that are derived from fear of failure? Yeah. Perfect question to end with.Vin Kachuik 1:01:21Absolutely, yeah. That the way that you combat fear of failure is again, it's that "have to, not get to" that's where the fear of failure comes from. It's from the distance between where you feel you are and the expectations that are set above you. That's where things like shame and doubt just reign supreme, and can get the better of you. So a couple of things to do with that is seeing it less as the end result is the expectation and the doing is more the expectation, finding the value, and the joy in the doing the "Hey, I'm learning how to do this". Again, it comes back to starting small though, you know, do it with low stakes things, if it's a high stakes things thing, like a final paper or a big game or something like that, where it's all on the line. No, that's that's too much. It's very overwhelming. But I think giving like little like bits of like autonomy or responsibility to allow someone an opportunity to fail, and get comfortable failing, and learning from that failure in a low stakes environment. Things like, okay, so you know, you're going to be in charge at here's, here's a house plant, you now have a house plant, here's a living thing that's going to depend on you, here's some instructions for what it needs and how to take care of it. Don't let it try not to let it die, you know, kind of thing. And it's like, you know, find and take the opportunity to find joy and relaxation in doing that task. You know, given the opportunity, like here research, some some, you know, here's some resources on some plant blogs of people who have, you know, what they like to use and what they like to do. You know, I always one of my favorite things that I like learning about new clients is I always try and get at the heart of like, what do you geek? What's the thing that like you geek about and obsess over? Because finding that there's no fear of failure in that? Yeah, they love it too much to fear failure. And so I try and like bring that sense of, like, whether it's joy and or obsession, sometimes there's a fine line between those two things. I try and bring that into other tasks that we're focusing on and be like, how would you approach this? If it was, you know, this video game you love? Or you know, if it was this sport, you play? Or you know, this? I don't know. Kpop band that you're obsessed with? Right? Yeah, right. Yeah. And, and like, you know, because they don't, they don't have any sense of fear or worry over those things. Because they already feel like they're experts at it. Yeah. But it's because it's low stakes, nobody else has seen the expectations of them being perfect.Hannah Choi 1:04:12Yeah, that's great.Amy McDuffie 1:04:14Yeah, I mean, I think that's so important. And I, there's so much to be learned by failure. And I think, you know, like, as a parent, I feel like it's part of my job to to model for my kids that, you know, we all fail, you know, at times, you know, we all make mistakes. And, you know, it's like you said, it's not about, you know, the end result always it's the process of what you've learned along the way. And so I just do think it's really important to model that, you know, this is, you know, you know, it's part of life that that we run into, you know, struggles and, and failure at times. I remember when my kids were when my son was really young. I I read a book, I believe it was called The Gift of Failure. I can't remember the author's name. But it was really wonderful for me to read. And just to kind of look at failure from that perspective, because, you know, of course, we all want our kids to succeed and do well. But there is so much to be learned along the way with that struggle.Vin Kachuik 1:05:18The road to success is paved with bricks of failure, something something like that. Yeah.Hannah Choi 1:05:24Was it the Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown?Amy McDuffie 1:05:27No, it was not Brene. Brown. Hannah Choi 1:05:29Okay. Yeah, that's a good one, too. Something that I, that I really find helpful with failure is getting away from that black and white thinking of either success or failure, and how there's, there are so many layers to it, and so many, you might ultimately have failed, but maybe there's some kind of like, win along the way.Vin Kachuik 1:05:51Like you said, Any modeling for people, I think that's an important thing to acknowledge, too. I know personally, like when I was growing up, big time perfectionist, I would collapse and crumble at even the slightest hint of failure or criticism, and it made it so hard to learn and grow. And the really, I think, something that I personally had to do a lot of work for, was accepting that sense of like vulnerability, that feeling of discomfort, that feeling of it's okay to not meet these expectations, it's okay to not be perfect. And the thing that comes with that is you can be so much happier there. It's hard cultivating a lot of that inner strength. And I'm getting a little bit into, like therapeutic mindfulness, kind of talk here. But it, it's, it's ultimately so much better. I think it is that. I think that's the crux of the, what is it? Failure is, the the, or Hannah Choi 1:06:53Discomfort is the price of admission to a meaningful life? Yeah, yeah, yeah.Vin Kachuik 1:06:57That's really what it

President Theodore Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" speech is often used as motivational material - as an admonition to get out and "just do it", or to "dare greatly". In this episode of the podcast, Rabbi B. and I discuss this idea from a different perspective. Maybe we don't need to "dare greatly", but perhaps "choose meaningfully"? We will let you decide. Enjoy!“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”To contact Dr. Dan go to www.DanielAFranz.comTo find out more about what we have going on over at The Meaning Academy, go to: https://www.themeaningacademy.com/ To support your favorite podcast on Mental Health & Meaning, pick up some meaningful The Meaning Project Podcast merch in our store at https://the-meaning-project-podcast.creator-spring.com/And finally, if you would like to support our efforts to improve the podcast and maybe even connect with Dr. Dan in different ways, become a Patron on our Patreon page at: https://www.patreon.com/themeaningprojectpodcast

This week we get up close and personal on a hard topic, vulnerability. Fortunately, we have Brene Brown's book Daring Greatly to help guide us as we navigate through. If you haven't read Daring Greatly, this barely scratches the surfaces and primes the pump, so if this episode connects with you, you'll definitely want to add it to your reading list. If you have read it, this is a great opportunity to revisit the myths around vulnerability and to take a moment to reflect on how you are applying this to your life, and how you might look at things with new lenses and examples. We primarily focus on the vulnerability myths that Brene talks about in her book. Some are bound to feel familiar. Perhaps the myth you can go it alone? Or vulnerability is a weakness? We'll even talk about some boundaries that go with vulnerability and figuring out who you can trust. I even trust you with some pretty stark examples of vulnerable points in my life. I'm sure it will bring to mind vulnerable points in yours and reinforce the relationships that were of value. We also take a moment to reflect on Shame and Shame Resilience, because no conversation around vulnerability, Daring Greatly, or Brene Brown would be complete without it. It is only a small reflection, so be sure to explore some of Brene's other work or send me a note on where you should start if this connects with you and is something you want to explore further.If you are interested in reading “Daring Greatly” snag your copy here- https://bookshop.org/a/90599/9781592408412 Other Books by Brene Brown:Rising StrongThe Gifts of ImperfectionBraving the WildernessA little about your host –Shawna Rodrigues is an entrepreneur, author, and consultant who found the alignment of her many talents and passions in podcasting. After launching her podcast, The Grit Show, she soon learned that women host only 27% of top-rated podcasts. It was understandable given the many challenges in sustaining a podcast. To combat this she launched the Authentic Connections Network; taking the tech and stress out of podcasting, and amplifying women's voices. Connect with her on Instagram- @ShawnaPodcasts.We'd love to connect more with you.Grab your copy of our Self-Care Coloring Pages & get added to our mailing list. https://ColoringPages.TheGritShow.comFollow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/The.Grit.Show/Our Website has more information about us, all of our episodes, and all the transcripts:TheGritShow.com Are you ready to take that next step in your self-care journey? Get your Color of Grit Adult Coloring Book here - book - bit.ly/TGSMermaiddownloadable -

What separates exceptional ideas from good ideas?  Here's an example of a good idea: Book two podcast guests and meticulously plan a conversation about creativity.Now, here's an exceptional idea: Get Brene Brown and Adam Grant to join you on a call, have absolutely NO plan, and hit record.  This is… A Bit of Optimism.For more on Brene and Adam's work check out: https://brenebrown.com/https://adamgrant.net/

Nicole Lewis-Keeber is an author/ speaker/ business therapist and go to expert on trauma and entrepreneurship. Nicole combines therapeutic processes with coaching frameworks to help business owners to create their own Emotional Sustainability Plan. Nicole has also trained with Brene' Brown to facilitate her Dare to Lead TM Frameworks

Joe Rogan is facing calls for his podcast to be removed from Spotify, as Brene Brown is now cancelling her own Spotify podcast until further notice. This call to stop Joe Rogan began with Neil Young, and as moved to others, including Brene Brown. I'm not making this video to bash Brene Brown or make an argument for or against Joe Rogan. As a fan of Brene Brown, I'm calling on her to instead have a conversation with Joe Rogan on her podcast, and/or Joe's. Brene has built a brand around vulnerability, and authentic conversation. Her own description of her Spotify Podcast says that her mission to have challenging, uncomfortable, confusing conversations that may even make her a bit upset. She has taught us the importance of having civil conversation about emotional issues, especially ones we disagree with. I would like to see Brene Brown use her platform and teachings to help unify society, rather than to continue to stop ideas from being shared on the Joe Rogan experience. ✅ FREE SUCCESS HYPNOSIS - click here to download my free success hypnosis to reprogram your subconscious mind ➡ https://www.jakeducey.com/hypnosis

Episode Highlights With Esther BlumThe average age of menopause and early signs to look forWhy menopause can start really early for some women in todays worldHormones to look at to get a baseline for mitigating menopause symptomsWhen supplements like chaste tree, DIM, and calcium d-glucarate can be helpfulHow cruciferous vegetables help hormonesWhat to know about hormone replacement therapy and the forms she does and does not recommendHow cyclical progesterone in second half of cycle can be helpful pre-menopause, especially after birth control useWhy lifting weights has such a big impact on hormone levels for womenThe supplements she recommends that are helpful for most womenHow brightly colored foods help hormones and feed beneficial bacteria in the gutThe one beneficial bacteria in the gut that helps avoid weight gain and how to support itMore support for morning sunlight, strength training and eating proteinA reason to go for a ten minute walk after eating- it lowers glucose by 17%!Her three “meno-laws” for avoiding fat gain during menopause (or anytime)Why many women develop non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in menopause and how to avoid itThings that are helpful for alleviating hot flashesHysterectomies are the new c-sections… are they necessary? Are they avoidable? What to try insteadResources We MentionEsther Bum - WebsiteEsther Blum - InstagramSee ya later, Ovulator!: Mastering Menopause with Nutrition, Hormones, and Self-Advocacy by Esther BlumBrocEliteBerbEliteJust ThriveDaring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead by Brene? BrownOutrageous Openness: Letting the Divine Take the Lead by Tosha SilverGame of Life and How to Play It by Florence Scovel ShinnEstrogen Matters: Why Taking Hormones in Menopause Can Improve Women's Well-Being and Lengthen Their Lives -- Without Raising the Risk of Breast Cancer by Avrum BlumingRyan Holiday booksThanks to Our Sponsors:Timeline Nutrition - Mitopure from Timeline Nutrition offers an easy way to get your daily 500mg dose of Urolithin A, which helps with energy and endurance.Wellnesse - My line of personal care products such as toothpaste, shampoo and deodorant

"Powerful" is a word that one could use to describe this episode of Las Culturistas, in which Matt & Bowen are finally joined by Bitch Sesh's gorgeous duo Casey Wilson and Danielle Schneider to touch grass, praise Mandy Moore, speak on forgiveness and vulnerability in a very Brene manner and ruminate on the concept of "hope". Also, all things RHOBH, RHOSLC, RHOP. Kathy Hilton: what's the deal there? Which of the franchises is the *darkest*? Is it better to interact with Housewives in the wild or simply not think of them as human? All this, OG soap operas, female character actresses living out loud, White Lotus season 2, The Vow season 2, The Mole, and more. Do you think psychics and mediums are to be believed? Do you want to see another trip where the Housewives ski? Would you use a gift certificate from a dog therapist to see a wizard? So many questions. *Some* answers. ALL fun. An honor to host these two! Love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Founder of MasterTalk, Brenden Kumarasamy, talks about public speaking. Today, Brenden talks about becoming an exceptional communicator, online versus in-person presentations, group presentations, and presenting as an introvert. How do we get better at communicating? Hear about Brenden's random word exercise, answering questions proactively, and building the jigsaw puzzle of a presentation, all on today's episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.   Key Takeaways “If you can make sense out of nonsense, you can make sense out of anything.” “The best way to get rid of fear is to have direction.” “You're only as strong as your weakest link in group presentations.” “When you are not speaking, you are still speaking.” “Someone out there needs your message, and you've just got to go out there and share it and leverage your strengths in the process.” “The goal is not to live forever but rather create something that will.” “When we realize that communication is about leading a more fulfilling life, we'll start to take it more seriously.” “Ask yourself one hard question about life every single day, and you'll never be the same ever again.”   More about Brenden Kumarasamy Brenden is the founder of MasterTalk, a coaching business he started to help ambitious executives & business owners become TOP 1% communicators in their industries so that they can accelerate their success in the workplace & companies. He also hosts a successful YouTube channel by the same name with over 25,000 subscribers. Brenden has coached many executives from companies like Salesforce, Amazon, IBM, Morgan Stanley, Blue Cross, J. Walter Thompson, Deloitte, Verizon, and many more.   Suggested Keywords Healthy, Wealthy, Smart, Communication, Public Speaking, Presentations, Fear, MasterTalk,   Recommended Reading: Thirst, by Scott Harrison.   To learn more, follow Brenden at: Website:          https://rockstarcommunicator.com. YouTube:        MasterTalks. LinkedIn:         Brenden Kumarasamy.   Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website:                      https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:          https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                        https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud:               https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:                       https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio:               https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927   Read the Full Transcript Here:  00:05 Welcome to the healthy, wealthy and smart podcast where healthcare meets business with your host me, Dr. Karen Litzy. And just as a reminder, the information in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only, and is not to be used as personalized medical advice. Enjoy the show.   00:28 Hello, welcome back to the podcast. I am your host, Dr. Karen Litzy. And in today's podcast, we're talking all about how vital it is to be a good communicator to be a good public speaker, especially for healthcare professionals. So I have a great guest to walk us through all of that and he is Brendon kumara Asami Brendon is the founder of master talk a coaching business, he started to help ambitious executives and business owners become top 1% communicators in their industries so that they can accelerate their success in the workplace in companies. He also hosts a successful YouTube channel by the same name master talk. With over 25,000 subscribers. Brendan has coached many executives from companies like Salesforce, Amazon, IBM, Morgan, Stanley, Blue Cross, J, Walter Thompson, Deloitte, Verizon, and many more. So like I said, today we're talking about public speaking, how becoming how to become an exceptional communicator, how to give great presentations, whether they're online or group and presenting as an introvert. So it's all about getting better at communicating. Brendon has some great tips and tricks, some homework for us all to do so that we can become better communicators, presenters and public speakers. So big thanks to Brendan, and everyone enjoyed today's episode. Hey, Brendan, welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to have you on it to talk about public speaking. So thank you so much for joining me, Karen. The pleasures absolutely mind. Thanks for having me. All right. So public speaking. As you know, sometimes it can be people's number one fear in life getting in front of a group of people in the I'm a physical therapist in the physical therapy world.   02:10 Public speaking is something that can really help move the needle on your career. Yet, so many people are afraid to do it afraid to apply afraid to get up there, that sometimes they just never do it. So before we get into a lot of things in this interview, because I have so many things that I want to ask you, from what you've seen, and in your experience, what are the biggest challenges people have with public speaking? You know, a lot of people, Karen, they think it's fear. But there's actually a challenge, even greater that fear, surprisingly. And the challenge is motivation. Because if we aren't motivated to actually work on our communication, if we don't have an intrinsic reason, we'll never push through the fear. Because the fear will always exist in some way, shape, or form. Even for me, even for the person on the podcast. Why? Because of me, and you are having lunch and Elon Musk calls me and he says, Hey, man, I really liked your YouTube channel. Can you come and coach and I'll pay you a million bucks? Would I be scared? Yeah, it's Elon Musk. But with motivation. The reason this is so powerful is from this question that I'm sure a lot of physicians a lot of healthcare pros don't really think about, which is how would your life change? If you became an exceptional communicator, we dream about becoming a doctor, we dream about finishing finishing med school, we dream about expensive vacations, things we want to buy experiences we want to go on. When was the last time we dreamed about a life in which we're a better communicator in it? And if we don't want to make it about us, I'll throw another one out to you. How would the lives of your patients change? If you became an exceptional communicator? We know in health care patient experience is so important how we make them feel. So if we're not going to do it for us, we might as well start by doing it for them. Yeah, I think that's a great way to to kind of turn that narrative around to take it off of ourselves and say, Well, wait a second, if I were better at communication, because it's communication in front of 100 or communication front of one, it's still being able to communicate effectively, right?   04:19 Absolutely. Yeah. So how do we get better? Right? So there's a couple of things on Oh, go ahead, John, jump in. Oh, you're good. So so a couple of things that are current communication. The reason why a lot of us don't work on it is because we don't know the strategy behind that example. Communication is like juggling 18 balls at the same time. One of those balls is body language. Another one is storytelling. Another one's eye contact, facial expression, smiling and the list goes on. So if we try and juggle all 18, all of them will naturally fall to the floor. So instead, what are the three easiest balls that we can juggle in the air to get started with this practice?   05:00 What I call my easy threes. So start number one, I'll pause after each one. So I don't monologue for 15 minutes. So the first one is the random word exercise, pick a random word like tea like trophy, like Master, like paper towels, and create random presentations out of thin air. Why is this exercise effective, because it helps us quickly think in our feet, I always tell people that if you can make sense out of nonsense, you could make sense out of anything. And it's also really easy to do. Because all of us listening to this podcast, I hope showers every day. So you got 10 minutes in the shower to do this exercise. Or if you have kids, you could do it when you're picking them up from school. So by random word exercise, you mean like, if I were to say a microphone, and I'm doing a presentation on a microphone, I'm trying to sell a microphone. What does that mean? Does that work? Absolutely. So to your point, let's demonstrate this throw any word at me. But don't use microphone because it's too easy, because I have time to think about it. Right? Right. How about polar bear? Awesome. So Karen did not give me the word polar bear proaches. Conversely, I just need to invent something that it didn't want to do. Right now. When I think of the polar bear, I think of many things. The first one is the cold temperature in the North Pole.   06:20 But minus just how aggressively killer these polar bears can be. There's also a bright side, kind of like how polar bears are the main attraction to the Coca Cola brand, or I'll pull up yours kind of reminds us of Christmas and of Santa Claus and of the holiday season. But the reason I bring up the polar bear is that the polar bear has both an aggression. That's a bit crazy, but also a soft nature to them when you look at them from afar anyways. And I think life in many ways is that way too, especially when it comes to our dreams. A lot of us from the outside, it's the opposite. We think it's really, really scary. But then when we get closer towards it, that's actually not that bad. Kind of like a polar bear from 10 or a long feet away. So what's the advice or the advice here is   07:18 follow your dreams. Because all it takes is a little polar bear. All it takes is a little bit of ambition for you to say, You know what, even if that polar bear might be scary. Let's just see what happens. And that's just the random word. It's just just something random. That's it. That's crazy. Yeah, well done. You well done and people like I literally did not give him that word ahead of time. So that was just speaking off the top you have kind of like improv improvisation. Yeah, which I took improv classes a couple of years ago to help with the podcast. But what I found is it really helped with my patient interaction. So tying back to what you said before I became a better communicator with my patients as well. Okay, so number one random word exercise, improving sort of riffing on things. What's number two? Absolutely. So number two is questioned drills. We get asked questions all the time in our life care,   08:16 on podcasts, on shows, at school at work and med school, we're always getting asked questions, and most of us are reactive to them, especially for patients. We wait for the question to come. And then we go oh, let me answer that one.   08:32 In the same way, but a few years ago, when I started guesting on podcast, I sucked. I remember one question somebody asked, he said, Where does the fear of communication come from? And I looked at the guy and I said, I don't know man of San Diego, London, it's you tell me like I didn't know how to answer it. So I was being very reactive, instead of proactive. So what did I do differently? Every single day, Karen, for just five minutes. That's all answer one question that you think the world will ask you. But if you do this for five minutes a day, let's say we take a list of your commonly asked questions by patients. If you just do that once a day, let's say day one is where does your communication come from? Day two is when will I hear back? You know, day three is Will everything be okay? You know, just just make a list. And if you do this once a day for a year, Karen, you'll have answered 365 questions about your industry, you'll be absolutely bulletproof.   09:32 I like that. I like that a lot.   09:35 That's so interesting. I never really thought about doing that. And as you were speaking, I was like, what are the common questions that physical therapists get asked? So now I'm gonna have to do a think on it, and maybe write down seven. So you got a week's worth. And then, as you're kind of answering those questions, I'm sure other ones will start to pop up. So I don't want people to think   10:00 Oh, you have to write out 365 questions right off the bat, right? Correct. I'm glad you jumped into the news. Let me even help help the audience even a bit more, because I'm glad you went there. Don't do this alone. I just said that because I want people to take action. So what's the easiest version, but there's others. But then people will make excuses. But I'm happy to give it for your audience here. Because you're all medical professionals, sure, you'll take action. So what does this mean? You know, there's other people, you got friends who are in physio. So what I would do the smart way of doing this exercise, whether you're the CEO of let's say, the Office of the clinic, or you got friends in that field, I would book a call with like, seven other people. And I've seven other people bring seven questions. So then you have 49 questions. And you're what's great about this process, is we're not competing against each other. If I don't know the answer to the question, I'll just ask you, Hey, Karen, I don't know what to do. How would you answer this question? And then you tell me and I go, Oh, let me just copy that with my patients.   10:54 Because the questions are the same. But the point is just to do the exercise, there's different ways of doing this. The easy one is just a load in your basement. And if no friends, you know, write it out every day. But to your point, yes, I'm sure you have colleagues in the medical profession that you could just do this with. Yeah, that makes it a lot easier takes us takes the pressure off, because I'm sure you've heard this before. Like, if you're under 65 questions, forget it. It's too much. I'm not gonna do it. Right. Absolutely. So to kind of have have some pals help you out will make a big difference. Alright, random word exercise question drills. What's number three? Absolutely. So number three is so simple. That nobody does it. Make a list of the five people you love the most in your life could be your mom, your sister, your brother, family members could even be patients. And ask yourself a simple question. When was the last time you sent them? Not a 20 minute, but a 22nd video message, just to tell them how much you appreciate having them in your life, the people who helped you through medical school, the people who really believed in you, the teachers, the mentors, the people supported you. video messages, make people's days, Karen, but more importantly, video messages teach us a very important lesson that the education system does not teach us. The education system teaches us, Karen, that communication is a chore. Oh my god, I have to get better at this thing. Because I have to do well. And then it's so much stress and anxiety. Versus when you start sending video messages and you wake up the next morning, you're shocked at the responses you get. A lot of people look at you look at the text and you say whoa, everyone's saying it made their day it made their their week feel really special enough. Some people never got a video message in their life. And it helps us relearn what communication is for, which is to create an impact to share an idea with the world. Going back to the fears we alluded to earlier. Right? I don't want to share my message I don't want but what happens if you don't?   12:47 Well, if you don't, you won't be able to serve as a role model for the people who are going through medical school right now, and are looking up to you. Don't worry about the millions of people in the world. Just worry about the people behind you, or rather, before you I think is the right way of putting it. Yeah, yeah. All right. So three really great sort of drills or strategy that we can use at home either on our own or with some pals to help us find that motivation for public speaking. Right. So let's say we've, we're motivated, now we want to do it. We're we've got a conference coming up. And what happens next, right? We know our stuff, we're good, but you're still it's still in there. You get up to the mic, and you're like   13:47 so what do we do that? Sir, sir? So so a couple of things before that moment arrives, hopefully people get to this episode of time, which I hope I would say the next piece. So now you're doing these drills, you're really building up your momentum, your skill set. What's what's my go to strategy for keynote prep? I call this the jigsaw puzzle method. Communication is like jigsaw puzzle security, you know, those pieces, you know, little things used to do as kids those toys, right? So whenever we're doing this jigsaw puzzle, we always want to start with the corner pieces. And the reason is because they're easier to find at the box. So if you open a jigsaw puzzle, you get these corner pieces, you put them all together, and then you're working into the middle. Now you're probably wondering, Brendan, why are you talking about jigsaw puzzles? And the reason is super simple care. The reason I talk about jigsaw puzzles is because in communication, most of us do the opposite. We start with the middle first, we shove a bunch of content or presentations. We get to the podium, and we ramble throughout the whole thing. And then the last slide sounds something like this.   14:56 Thanks, not the right approach. So what should we do instead?   15:00 To prepare presentations like a jigsaw puzzle, start with the edges first, practice just your introduction here. 50 times 50 Seems like a big number, but it really is it because your introduction is 60 to 90 seconds. So we're talking like an hour's worth of work. Same thing with the conclusion, what's a great movie with a terrible ending, terrible movie last time I checked. So same thing with the close, do it 50 times, once again, it'll take you another hour, then focus on the middle. If you do that, especially in this industry that we're talking to right now, most people don't bother prime, I've coached a lot of the the people in this industry, most people don't even spend a lot of time and effort doing the communication. So if you just spend those puzzles, and you just practice in that way, you'll blow everyone's minds.   15:50 That makes a lot of sense. I was just   15:54 a way at a at a physical therapy conference. And I did have to do an opening of the conference with another physiotherapist. And what we really did do a lot is we practiced that first slide that opening to make sure that we're grabbing people's attention. And then like you said, we actually did sort of finish with, again, another slide that grabbed people's attention and left people feeling really good about it. And we didn't do it intentionally. Mind you, we just kind of it just sort of happened, you know. But now I like that working on the edges. It's like when you're doing your you write the outline, and then you just start filling it in.   16:51 But I really like the beginning in the end, because it's true, you always remember sort of that last image, that last slide, whether it's a presentation, or even, you know, a TED talk or Keynote, you kind of always remember the end and kind of how that made you feel. So I think that's really great advice. I really liked that. What else? Is there anything else we need to? I mean, I'm sure there's a million things that we need to think about, although the podcast is not 10 hours long. But what are some other kind of big things that we should remember when it comes to the presentation itself? While we're in those prep stages? Absolutely, Karen. So I would say for the for the prep. What's nice about doing the beginning the end is because it builds momentum really quickly, especially in the industry. Right now we're in healthcare, where a lot of us, you know, we're dealing with a ton of patients, we're working long hours, we don't have as many hours as other industries to actually invest in our communication. So I'll give you an example. So people understand the comparison. Let's say you have three hours to practice a presentation, that's 30 minutes, what most people in any field will do is they'll practice a 30 or 30 minute talk three times in a row, they'll get tired, and then they'll eat lunch. That's generally what happens. But the problem is, is in those three practices, they don't really see that much growth. Because it's a big presentation, it's hard to keep improving upon. Versus if you take that seemed three hours, and you just spend the same the first two, the first hour doing just the intro and the second hour just doing the conclusion, you're going to go to lunch really happy, you say, Wow, I just delivered the best introduction of my life, the best conclusion of my life. Now I'm just going to spend the next hour to your point filling out the dots connecting the rest. So that's the reason strategically, why that works more sense, it's a better investment of time, in terms of the other points. Now we're going into the bonus round. So the bonus round is this. Every great presentation, Karen generally has one key idea, what do you want them to remember, I'll give you an example from one of my clients. What she is trying to do is the draw the relationship between empathy and patient care experience. That's what our presentations, but if she tries to talk about 10 Other things for a TED talk, it's not going to work, because she only has 15 minutes to talk. So every story, every analogy, every tool, every statistic is really revolving around the idea that we need to bring more empathy into not just the patient care experience, but towards other functions within the hospital, whether it's the support teams, the it the ops, so that the patient care experience is 360 Not just one ad, right. That's our whole key idea. But notice how clear that is. But if we try and do 10 different things, we go nowhere. So what's the advice, the advice is to bullet down 10 different key ideas on a list, and then look at that list with your friends if you have any ideally, and then look at that list and saying hmm, out of these 10 ideas, which one energetically excites me the most. Which one energetically gets me wow, like this is the one that I really want to land and the frame number two   20:00 Getting a little bit more advanced. But the frame around this is just asking ourselves this question. What is the one key idea out of this long list that I just wrote that I feel no one else is talking about the conference? No one else is emphasizing. No one else is really drawing a point around in the same way. We talked about Ajay, right, where she focused on the other areas of the hospital, not just doctors. That's her key idea. What's yours? So that's the other piece. And then the last piece to presentation prep, is the willingness to experiment like a painter, like an artist, like a mad scientist. What does that mean? That means try a bunch of tools, try a personal story. Try an anecdote, try statistic. And the only question you ask yourself, is this one, and I'll throw it back to you? Does this defend my key idea? Does this personal story does the statistic does this anecdote, defend my key idea? Yes or No? Try a bunch of things. And then you'll figure out the ones that make the most sense. That's what goes into the final deck. Yeah, that's great. I love that advice. I'm taking copious notes here. Because I like the way you're kind of laying it out for people. And I think that it's simple, it's easy to follow. Most people love a template, they love kind of instructions, right? I'm sure you get that all the time. Like, just give me instructions on how to do X, Y, and Z. And then I'll do it. And then when you feel at least, I'm going to say this personally, when I feel better prepared going into a talk, it's a better talk, I'm a little more relaxed, I can kind of go with the flow. If there's a complication or a tech issue, it doesn't completely throw you off your game. So I think, to your point by being prepared and prepping adequately, I think that can help take away some of the fear.   21:58 I completely agree. You know, what I always say is that the best way to get rid of fear is to have direction. If you're focused on direction of where you're going, and you're not thinking about the future thinking, Oh, I should probably do the branch board exercise tomorrow. I should probably do some question drills, I probably should get some buddies together. On and so on, so forth. Yeah. Now, switching gears slightly, but   22:21 we're still you know, in these COVID times, everybody's on Zoom. There's many, many, many zoom conferences. So does your advice change when it comes to an online presentation versus an in person presentation? And can you compare and contrast those for us? Absolutely happy to Karen. So the advice does stay the same. But there are three ads that are that I'll jump on that I'll let her on top for online. So the first one is eye contact. So when you're in an in person setting, Karen, do you want to move your head based on who's in the crowd to maintain eye contact with them? What's nice about online is whether you're speaking to one or 10,000 people, you only have to look in one area, which is the camera lens. That's it, you just gotta look in one direction, which is nice. So that's one. The second one and this is the most important, I would argue is energy. Look at the end of the day, Karen, it's easier to shove with energy when you're in person, because the accountability is higher, you'll take a shower, you'll wake up earlier, because you actually have to talk to people, you have to shake their hand, you have to hug them, depending on what your preference is. When you're online, you go like well, I mean, I guess they put my PJs on, no one's gonna know. So it's, it's that it's just that piece. It's impossible, in my opinion, to have that same level of standard as we do online than offline. So what's the advice, the advice is bring more energy in person, get really good in person and bring as much of that as possible, online. That's the advice. And then finally, number three, is accessibility a lot easier to get feedback from your audience when you're in person, because there's no friction, you just go up to them say what's up, you want to get lunch. And that's it. Simple, online. Not as easy, not as easy to build relationships with event planners and things like that organizers. So in that situation, you got to force those relationships, caring that means you got to get on calls with people you get on feedback calls with the organizers who brought you there to make sure you keep that relationship alive. You're getting the feedback you need, but you're also closing more speaking gigs through those relationships.   24:31 You're muted, by the way   24:33 I was gonna say it's all about the follow up.   24:37 And when your online follow up, can seem a little bit harder.   24:44 So follow up people email, text, voice message, DM however, whatever you need to do, but follow up. That's something that I admit I was not great at up until a couple of years ago was that follow up?   25:00 and it makes a huge difference. And it's it takes, I don't know, two seconds of your time to send an email to follow up, right? It's not that invasive to your time. No, yeah. So follow up, follow up, follow up. Okay.   25:16 One more question around the presentation and presentations is, oftentimes I see this a lot at in physical therapy conferences, or sports medicine conferences is, oftentimes you're presenting as part of a group. So there may be, you know, anywhere, maybe two people up to four people in a symposium or within a presentation. So what can you do to prepare for that, and present and stand out within this group presentation? Absolutely. So let me ask a clarification. Question, Karen on this. So when you've been stand out, because usually, and because that's why I want your feedback on this. A lot of the times when I'm coaching people in this industry on group presentations, it's usually like a research study that they all did together. So is that the context you're coming in from as well? Or is there like a different context that I missed? You? Know, I think that's definitely part of it is it'll be a research study that a group of people did on their own, or it may be part of a symposium on knee pain. And they'll be three or four different people speaking on knee pain, perhaps presenting their own individual research, or sometimes it can be researched together. Hmm. Okay, interesting. So I'll go in the context of let's assume they're all on the same team, because the other piece is more like you want to stand up for everyone else, which goes back to the individual tips, right, just just when, then then just do the rest of our exercise and just get the get the recognition. But in terms of the group, there's a couple of nuances be control. So thanks for that, Karen. The first difference is realize that if you're listening to this podcast, you are automatically the leader of the team. And the reason is because you have the most information, unless you're sending this podcast, which I encourage you to do as well, right to your to your fellow teammates in this group. Because you're the person with the most information, I encourage you to take leadership and understand the strengths and weaknesses of everyone on your team. Why? Because you're only as strong as your weakest link in group presentations. That would be my first advice. Take leadership, take all the hardest parts on make your teammates life as easy as possible. That's tip one. Tip number two, realize that when you are not speaking, you're still speaking. What do I mean by this? Let's say me and Karen are on the same team. We're both presenting this amazing research Bravo, she she did all the work, because what do I know about the medical industry? And she's presenting. And as she's presenting, I'm looking in the sky, and I'm thinking, Ah, what's for lunch? Even if I'm not talking? I'm telling my audience something, Karen, what I'm telling them is, by the way, guys, I spent six months researching this with Karen. And I don't care what she says. So you shouldn't either. And that's the message we're sending people. So what's the point? The point is you got to speak even when you're not speaking, which means when Karen's talking bread's looking at her and going, Wow, nodding his head, wow, when she says something great, you nod your head. So do the same thing with your teens be sure you're paying attention to the people that are speaking. That's number two. Number three is have a solid system for q&a, especially in the context of research. Why? Because generally in those presentation, not always it depends on the format. But usually, you will get specific nuanced questions about the research, the thesis, the sample size, what you did, you gotta be strong. Because if you miss those questions, or worse, you contradict each other, your whole presentation sinks. And that's what a lot of people don't get. So I actually have a system on this, but that nobody the medical industry uses that people, you could be the first one who is I call it q&a Master. So q&a Masters is a technique I learned from a team in Sweden, that I thought was really fascinating. So what they did is that the best person who answers questions became the master. And then based on the questions they got from the research teams, or the people in the room, or judges, what that Master would do is he would filter or she would filter all the questions, turn to the research team, and see who has their hands in front of their body. So everyone has their hands in front of their body wants to answer the question. And whoever doesn't want to answer the question has their hands behind their body. It's super nuanced, nobody would actually notice it. And all the Master does is that he looks really quickly or she looks really quickly and picks out the people. So he evenly distributes the question. So there's no stress because he knows who the expert is. And if nobody has their hands up, he just answers the question because he's the best at q&a. That's it q&a Master. I love it. That is such an easy and like you said nuanced way so the audience isn't really picking up on that and it makes your q&a flow so much   30:00 To easier, correct? Oh, that is such a good idea. I love that one. All right, if I, the next time I am in a group presentation, I will definitely bring that up. I love it. Okay. So   30:14 when,   30:16 when we're,   30:19 when we're presenting and we're up on stage, people often think, well, of course, they're up on stage because they're such a people person. They're the extrovert of the group there. You know, of course, only extroverts get up on stage, which we know is not true. So what advice do you have for those folks who might be a little more introverted or shy? And to get up there and do their thing? Absolutely. I mean, let me start with this, Karen, I had no business getting up on any stage. You know, I was 22. When I started master talk, my average client is 20 years older than me, I have a bachelor's degree in accounting. I spoke my whole life and a second language, and I have a crooked left arm because of a surgery head when I was younger, who in the world am I to share ideas on communication and public's view of the world? So the better question now becomes, why did I press record? Why did I do it? I had every excuse not. I did it for the 15 year old girl who couldn't afford me. I never did it for my executives. I just said, Hey, wait a second, like people are like 12 years old? Like who are they going to relate to with their communication, not some six year old white guy who's retiring, and what's seven PhDs and comms, she's going to relate to me. And I'm the only person who can share these videos, I have the expertise because I've been doing it for so long, even if I'm 26 have been doing for seven years. Nobody has that kind of resume. So I said it's either I do these videos, or nobody does. So think about that message in the context of what you want to share with the world. So if you're a little bit more shy or introverted, that generally means a few things. And let's focus on the positive three things specifically wonder a better listener. Okay, extroverts like me, are terrible listeners. That's why we make great guests on podcasts. Yep. All the time. Right. When you're an introvert, you listen more because you speak less. So it's easier for you to be empathetic, not just to the patients you serve in your day to day work, but also empathetic to your audience. You know what's going to land because you're asking them powerful questions, you're listening to them. That's one, two, you're better off Pausing. Pausing is the most important tool in communication, because that allows us to draw emphasis with our key ideas. Extroverts suck at pausing, because we hate space for at a party or at a bar, and we're just staring at somebody and there's no conversation. We start to get really anxious, and we've got us caregiver color. As a freak out. Resident introvert never has that problem, Karen, because they're just comfortable silence don't talk about much anyways. So pausing is really easy for them. And then the last piece is accessibility. Introverts are actually a lot more accessible to share their ideas than extroverts are. Example. Gary Vaynerchuk, CEO of VaynerMedia, massive social media following. I'm a big fan personally, but you either like the guy or you don't you either like he's really, really loud approach or you go get this guy away from me. Nobody says that about Brene. Brown, Karen. Nobody says I hate Brene. Brown. So what's the message? The message is someone out there needs your message. And you just got to go out there and share it and leverage your strengths in the process. Oh, great advice for all of those introverts out there. Or even you're sort of somewhere in between that introvert and extrovert, right? I think it what is it an entre entrepreneur, entrepreneur?   33:40 Entrepreneur, no one ever heard, and pervert, right? Right, right. No, I was gonna say an entrepreneur. And then I'm like, No, that's not right. Yes. So great advice. Now, you had mentioned master talk a couple of times. So can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, for sure. Karen. So master was just a fluke, you know, after university ended for me, I had no plans of being an entrepreneur, like a content creator. Similar to a lot of the questions you would ask around introverts, I was just going to become an executive at IBM. That was my goal. So I went on to work there for a few years. But I realized that everything that I was sharing with the students back then wasn't available for free on the internet. So I started making YouTube videos on communication. And it just turned into something I never could have imagined, which today, of course, a coaching business and a media company for people can't afford a coach.   34:30 That's wonderful. I love that. You're, you're supplying people with really good, relevant content. That doesn't cost 10 grand to get it   34:43 out at all. Fabulous. Now, as we start to wrap things up here, I have a couple more questions for you. These will be easy. Number one, what are your top three books for public speaking or speaking in general, that you would wreck   35:00 have met, I'll recommend one because usually when you recommend three people don't buy all three. So I'll give one an unconventional one. Thirst by Scott Harrison. So that's thirst by Scott Harrison Scott Harrison is the CEO and founder of Charity Water. It's a nonprofit, he started to help people gain access to clean water. The reason I recommend Scott's work, Karen, is because the guy's a world class storyteller. I've never seen anyone like him where he would practically went from a nightclub promoter in New York City in his 20s, to building the largest water charity in America, he raised $100 million, just last year to find clean water projects. And he did it primarily through communication and storytelling. And there's a great quote in the book that I'd love to share. And the quote is simply this. The goal is not to live forever, but rather create something that will and that quote will always stick with me. Excellent, great. So that's thirst by Scott Harrison. And just so people know, we'll have a link to that in the show notes at the podcast website. All right. So what are you? What do you want people to take away from this conversation? I would say for me, Karen, it goes back to the question we alluded to a bit earlier in this conversation. How would your life change? Or rather, how would your patient's experience in life change if you became an exceptional communicator, I fundamentally believe that the biggest piece that's missing in this field is excitement and passion for pursuing communication. Communication is supposed to be fun, like everything we shared today, isn't like, Oh, my God, like you have to sit there and find your key idea. Like it's fun, do this with people around you get excited. Why? Because it matters. Because it's every moment of your life. It's not just about getting on the stage. It's not just about making your patients feel like they're the most important people in the world in that moment with you. It's every conversation you have with your family. It's the way that you talk to your children, your nieces, your nephews, it's the way that you're the foot at restaurant or when you make new friends. And when we realize that communication is about leading a more fulfilling life, we'll start to take it more seriously. Excellent, great takeaway for everyone listening. Thank you so much. Where can people find you? Absolutely can This is a great conversation. Thanks for having me. So two ways of keeping in touch one, the YouTube channel, just go to master talking one word, you'll have access to hundreds of free videos on how to communicate ideas effectively. And number two, I do a free workshop over zoom that's live and interactive. It's not some boring webinar. And I facilitate it. So if you want to jump in on one of those, all you have to do is register for free. At Rockstar, communicate tour.com. Perfect. So that's Rockstar, communicate tour o r.com. Perfect. And again, we'll have links to all of this at the podcast website, podcast at healthy, wealthy smart.com. One click will get you to Brendan and all of these amazing resources. So last question, knowing where you are now in your life and in your career. What would what advice would you give to your younger self? My advice, Karen would be asked yourself one hard question about life every single day. And you'll never be the same ever again. That's the biggest thing. I'll give you three to not make your audience too crazy here. One, if you had all the money in the world, how would you spend your time? You know, a lot of us are always optimizing for the magical number 65. But if I made you an instant billionaire, what would you do with your time now? That's one, two, if you could only accomplish three things in your life and only three? What would you accomplish and why this helps you focus because time is limited time is the essence that we're all trying to optimize again. So use it effectively. And number three, what's a goal or a dream that you secretly gave up on? And never told anyone about? I'd encourage you to answer that question because it might lead to a dream that you should be pursuing in your life. Wow, great advice. And I think that's a first I've never heard that for a piece of advice and I asked all my all my guests this that's the first time I've gotten that piece of advice. So you are certainly a first on the podcast and I'm really happy that you came on and shared all this great info with myself and with with the listeners of the podcast. So thank you so much. pleasure was mine can't that's for me. Yes and everyone. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.   39:29 Thanks for listening. And don't forget to leave us your questions and comments at podcast dot healthy, wealthy smart.com

1. Brené and Barrett share their parenting strategy that Brené calls “the opposite of raising a child that's full of shame.” 2. The family of origin roles that Brené (the Protector) and Barrett (the Peacekeeper) had to adjust in order to work together–and the two keys to working well with family.   3. The ways in which a child who grows up living on eggshells becomes an adult who is fearful–and how that fear shows up differently for Brené, Barrett, Glennon, and Amanda.    4. The hilarious moment when each sister confesses a secret that they fear the other believes about them–and we find out whether or not it's true.  5. How Brené and Barrett are walking through the grief of their mother's sudden decline, and how they circle back when the stress of that grief makes them shitty to each other.   About Brené:  Dr. Brené Brown is a research professor at the University of Houston where she holds the Huffington Foundation Endowed Chair at The Graduate College of Social Work.She has spent the past two decades studying courage, vulnerability, shame, and empathy, is the author of six #1 New York Times bestsellers, and is the host of the weekly podcasts Unlocking Us and Dare to Lead.  Brené's books have been translated into more than 30 languages and titles include: Dare to Lead, Braving the Wilderness, Rising Strong, Daring Greatly, and The Gifts of Imperfection. Most recently Brené collaborated with Tarana Burke to co-edit You Are Your Best Thing: Vulnerability, Shame Resilience, and the Black Experience.  In her latest #1 New York Times bestseller, ATLAS OF THE HEART, which has been adapted for television and now streaming on HBO Max, she takes us on a journey through eighty-seven of the emotions and experiences that define what it means to be human.  Brené lives in Houston, Texas, with her husband, Steve. They have two children, Ellen and Charlie. TW: @BreneBrown IG: @BreneBrown About Barrett:  Barrett Guillen is Chief of Staff for Brené Brown Education and Research Group. With her team, Barrett supports both Brené and the organization by helping to prioritize competing demands, managing relationships, and building connective tissue and strategy across all business initiatives. Barrett holds bachelor's and master's degrees in Kinesiology from the University of Houston. After more than a decade in education in the Texas Panhandle, Barrett and her family moved back to the Houston area to join Brene's team in making the world a braver place. Having the opportunity to work with her sisters every day has been one of the great joys of her life. Outside the office, you can find Barrett spending time with her family (immediate and extended), enjoying her daughter's games, eating her husband's famous burgers, floating in the water (any water!), or on the pickle ball court. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices