Podcast appearances and mentions of Jen Hatmaker

Well, unless you've been living under a rock, you're aware that we are now in full-blown football mode. College football is underway and the NFL has kicked off with its new '25-'26 season. Everything should be wonderful in the world of football fans. Except, one of the story lines in the NFL this year is the increasing prominence of male cheerleaders. Ray Hacke, “This is nothing to cheer about,” August 27, 2025.Denny Burk, “Jen Hatmaker and her appeal to deconstruct,” August 26, 2025.

Prosecutors formally changed Tyler Robinson, the suspect in the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and said they intend to seek the death penalty. Authorities also revealed exchanges between Robinson and his roommate.CBS News legal analyst Caroline Polisi breaks down recent developments in major legal cases. The man suspected of killing conservative activist Charlie Kirk has formally been charged. In New York, a judge dropped terrorism charges against Luigi Mangione, who is accused of killing the UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. A judge in California rejected the Menendez brothers' petition for a new trial. A focus of President Trump's visit to London will be on the U.S.-U.K. trade agreement and the billions of dollars of American business investments in British AI, quantum computing and nuclear technology projects. Mr. Trump is the first U.S. president to make a second state visit to Britain, but there is widespread opposition to the visit. CBS News' Ed O'Keefe has more. A committee convened by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., an outspoken vaccine skeptic, meets this week to review potential changes to U.S. vaccine guidelines. CBS News' Cristian Benavides reports on how parents and doctors in Florida are reacting. J.D. Power released its annual rankings for the best airports in North America. Metrics like food, retail, facilities and how easy it is to travel through the airport are all factors. Hollywood legend Robert Redford died Tuesday at his home in Utah at the age of 89. He starred in movies like "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" and "The Way We Were." "CBS Sunday Morning's" Lee Cowan reports. Cardi B confirmed she is expecting a baby with boyfriend and NFL wide receiver Stefon Diggs during an interview with Gayle King on "CBS Mornings." She talks about balancing motherhood, her new album "Am I The Drama?," and how Diggs' support makes her feel safe. Author and podcast host Jen Hatmaker joins "CBS Mornings" to discuss her new memoir "Awake," where she reflects on the end of her 26-year marriage, her evolving faith and the new chapter that followed. Bestselling author Angie Thomas joins "CBS Mornings" to discuss "Nic Blake and the Remarkables: The Book of Anansi," the second novel in her fantasy trilogy that follows a 12-year-old girl navigating courage, magic and discovery. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

October through December sometimes feels like a really fun roller coaster but you don't always feel like you have time to buckle your seatbelt. This episode is going to help you not just survive a busy season but really enjoy it. Helpful Companion Links Order my new book The PLAN or ask your library to consider carrying a copy. Our digital products are going into retirement. Grab them now (at a discount!) before they disappear at the end of the year. I'll be talking with Jen Hatmaker about her new book, Awake, at Festival of Books and Authors in Winston-Salem on Saturday, September 27th. There are tons of sessions to see and authors to meet, and the event is free to the public. Episode #121: How to Build a Fall Dinner Queue Episode #434: 10 Ways I Feel Like Myself Counterweights: An Essential Practice for Holding Hope in a Heavy World by Shannan Martin Sign up for the Latest Lazy Listens email. Grab a copy of my book The Lazy Genius Kitchen or The Lazy Genius Way! (Affiliate links) Download a transcript of this episode. Want to share your Lazy Genius of the Week idea with us? Use this form to tell us about it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's program, Warren Smith has one of his periodic “lightning round” talks with Michael Reneau of The Dispatch. This time, they dig into celebrity Christians, including Jen Hatmaker, Doug Wilson, Chip and Joanna Gaines, and others. They also discuss how Tim Keller is sort of an antidote to that, the “anti-celebrity celebrity. They also discuss recent articles at The Dispatch regarding artificial intelligence, and a whole lot more.   We mention a couple of articles in the program. Here are links: Patrick McNamara on AI Bonnie Kristian's article on Private Religion  Joseph Polidoro's article on Creative Destruction Before joining The Dispatch, Michael Reneau was the editor of WORLD Magazine. He also served as editor of the award-winning paper The Greenville Sun, based in Greenville, Tennessee. He is married and he and his wife have four children. The producer for today's program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

Segment 1 • Forgiveness isn't optional—even when repentance isn't perfect. • Broken trust with family means hard, intentional work to rebuild it. • TRANSFORMED SEASON 4 sets the stage with practical application. Segment 2 • OnlyFans is exploding across college campuses—a tragic cultural trend. • Lecrae releases Reconstruction while flirting with deconstruction themes. • AI “truth” is shaky; apostasy and self-made “truths” define deconstruction. Segment 3 • Jimmy preaching on deconstruction at camp—Gen Z's battlefront. • Even Sproul and MacArthur disagreed—unity is bigger than uniformity. • Don't treat church like a product—show up to participate, not consume. Segment 4 • Jen Hatmaker admits she left the church, maybe for good. • Simply showing up to church encourages others more than you think. • Marriage isn't about convenience—it's a God-designed school of character. ___ Thanks for listening! Wretched Radio would not be possible without the financial support of our Gospel Partners. If you would like to support Wretched Radio we would be extremely grateful. VISIT https://fortisinstitute.org/donate/ If you are already a Gospel Partner we couldn't be more thankful for you if we tried!

I get this question a lot, “How do you figure out what makes you feel like yourself? Is it even possible when you're wearing all the hats and pulled in all the directions?” I've always said yes it is. You just have to find the things that make you feel like you. Well, when I started working on this episode and made my list of things, I found a level of nuance I've never really named before. Essentially, there are things that wake you up and other things that fill you up, and that difference might make a difference. Let's get into it! Helpful Companion Links Order my new book The PLAN or ask your library to consider carrying a copy. I'll be talking with Jen Hatmaker about her new book, Awake, at Festival of Books and Authors in Winston-Salem on Saturday, September 27th. There are tons of sessions to see and authors to meet, and the event is free to the public. Bookmarks in Winston-Salem, NC Episode #258: The Seven Kinds of Rest and How to Know Which One You Need Breezy Instrumental Playlist (Spotify) Sign up for our every-other-week podcast recap email called Latest Lazy Listens. Sign up for my once-a-month newsletter, The Latest Lazy Letter. Sign up for The Book List Grab a copy of my book The Lazy Genius Kitchen or The Lazy Genius Way! (Affiliate links) Download a transcript of this episode. Want to share your Lazy Genius of the Week idea with us? Use this form to tell us about it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

https://x.com/jamesrwoodtheo/status/1963295262891262444 https://www.aol.com/why-christian-influencer-no-longer-100533989.html ​ ⁨@christianbaxter_yt⁩    Belong-Apocalypse // The Fellowship of the Spirit at Midwestuary 2025 https://youtu.be/Gs7Qqrrg6_Y?si=FDu_Q6gkqAeiznFY Paul Anleitner and the Quest for Wholesome Community https://youtu.be/8GaL2mtekn4?si=co0zoa47XAfeF618    https://www.southeastuary.com/ https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give Paul Vander Klay clips channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX0jIcadtoxELSwehCh5QTg https://www.meetup.com/sacramento-estuary/ My Substack https://paulvanderklay.substack.com/ Bridges of meaning https://discord.gg/cfwxQ96Q Estuary Hub Link https://www.estuaryhub.com/ If you want to schedule a one-on-one conversation check here. https://calendly.com/paulvanderklay/one2one There is a video version of this podcast on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/paulvanderklay To listen to this on ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/paul-vanderklays-podcast/id1394314333  If you need the RSS feed for your podcast player https://paulvanderklay.podbean.com/feed/  All Amazon links here are part of the Amazon Affiliate Program. Amazon pays me a small commission at no additional cost to you if you buy through one of the product links here. This is is one (free to you) way to support my videos.  https://paypal.me/paulvanderklay Blockchain backup on Lbry https://odysee.com/@paulvanderklay https://www.patreon.com/paulvanderklay Paul's Church Content at Living Stones Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh7bdktIALZ9Nq41oVCvW-A To support Paul's work by supporting his church give here. https://tithe.ly/give?c=2160640 https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give

Description: In this episode, we open the mic to our incredible podcast community, spotlighting the diverse feedback and personal stories from our listeners that have shaped our discussions. Hear firsthand accounts of the impact our guests and their insights have had. Listeners Melinda, Tracy, Joanna, Erin, Kelly, Laura, and Sarah share a wide range of experiences: navigating major life changes like empty-nesting, building new friendships, wrestling with evolving faith, and even becoming an unwilling country music convert. We also dive into some humorous reflections about Travis and TayTay, rest stop kittens, and open mic nights. Join us as we celebrate the voices that make our podcast a vibrant and dynamic space for conversation and connection. Tune in and be part of the dialogue. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Let the top rung of the ladder be your sincere convictions. That's the one to keep sturdy, clear, and visible, and hold that one as tight as you can.” – Jen Hatmaker “Anchor your feet into the ground and stand in this storm. Let it rage. Weather it, weather your own discomfort, weather everybody else's discomfort and whatever loss or change comes along with it, because it will end, and there will come a day when it is not that chaotic and what you will be left with is your integrity and that is enough.” – Jen Hatmaker “Women are capable of getting through the hardest things.  Maybe it's a trope because it's true. Maybe the women who are betrayed grieve and recover and rebuild because that's what women do. So maybe it's not such a surprise that we can flourish.” – Amy Hardin “I'm just convinced, this is the time for us to reinvent. Look how awesome we are.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce engagement post - https://www.instagram.com/p/DN02niAXMM-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MTQ4YWwzOGcycWJlcA== [ENCORE] When the Truth Goes Viral: The Cost (and Benefit) of Living Honestly with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/encore-when-the-truth-goes-viral-the-cost-and-benefit-of-living-honestly-with-jonathan-merritt/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3VnMb0k The Interview: Jen Hatmaker's Life Exploded in Middle Age. So She Built a Better One. – https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/23/magazine/jen-hatmaker-interview.html Shiny, Happy People - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/shiny-happy-people/umc.cmc.68y3j8gmhyj647n1j8hgscd3p No Filter, Just The Mirror: Trisha Yearwood Reflects On New Seasons and New Ambitions - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/no-filter-just-the-mirror-trisha-yearwood-reflects-on-new-seasons-and-new-ambitions/ Trisha Yearwood - The Mirror – https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Awake Book Tour with guest moderator Trisha Yearwood - Austin, TX - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bookpeople-presents-jen-hatmaker-awake-tickets-1388635428949?aff=oddtdtcreator I Choose Me: Jennie Garth on Midlife, Reinvention & Owning Your Next Chapter - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/i-choose-me-jennie-garth-on-midlife-reinvention-owning-your-next-chapter/ Gretchen Rubin - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation | The U.S. Surgeon General's Advisory on the  Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community, 2023 - https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Top headlines for Wednesday, September 3, 2025In this episode, we explore how the federal government is backing a pro-life ministry in New Jersey, setting the stage for a significant Supreme Court showdown this fall. Meanwhile, in Texas, a contentious bill requiring individuals to use bathrooms aligning with their sex has sparked debate, with the Bible taking a central role in discussions. Lastly, we discuss the concept of deconstruction with rapper Lecrae, who sees it not as a negative process, but as a transformative journey towards a healthier spiritual life. 00:11 Trump DOJ backs Christian ministry headed to Supreme Court01:16 Grace Community Church sued by ex-employees, fined by state02:08 Interim president of embattled Episcopal university resigns03:11 Jen Hatmaker reveals she's left the church and may never go back04:09 Texas House passes bathroom bill after Scripture-infused debate05:01 Open letter to CNN editor on 'conversion therapy'06:02 Lecrae on his reconstruction, healing and boldest album yetSubscribe to this PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle PodcastsOvercastFollow Us on Social Media@ChristianPost on TwitterChristian Post on Facebook@ChristianPostIntl on InstagramSubscribe on YouTubeGet the Edifi AppDownload for iPhoneDownload for AndroidSubscribe to Our NewsletterSubscribe to the Freedom Post, delivered every Monday and ThursdayClick here to get the top headlines delivered to your inbox every morning!Links to the NewsTrump DOJ backs Christian ministry headed to Supreme Court | PoliticsGrace Community Church sued by ex-employees, fined by state | U.S.Interim president of embattled Episcopal university resigns | EducationJen Hatmaker reveals she's left the church and may never go back | U.S.Texas House passes bathroom bill after Scripture-infused debate | PoliticsOpen letter to CNN editor on 'conversion therapy'Lecrae on his reconstruction, healing and boldest album yet | Entertainment

In this empowering conversation, Lesley Logan welcomes back sex educator Dr. Celeste Holbrook to talk about her new book Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture. Together they unpack healing from harmful narratives, navigating seasons of change in your sex life, and discovering the ‘glittery middle,' where you get to define pleasure, intimacy, and authenticity on your own terms.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:How to let your sex life evolve with every stage of life.The five-year journey and setbacks behind Celeste's debut book.The four archetypes for healing and reclaiming sexual agency.Why faking orgasms is a “fawn response” and how to break the cycle.The freedom of defining your own sexual ethic in the “glittery middle”.Episode References/Links:Dr. Celeste Holbrook's Website - www.drcelesteholbrook.comDr. Celeste Holbrook's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drcelesteholbrookDr. Celeste Holbrook on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrCelesteHolbrookMissionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture by Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://a.co/d/3UimUKxA Well-Trained Wife by Tia Levings - https://a.co/d/ibRaesYFourth Wing Series by Rebecca Yarros - https://a.co/d/7Qhgk2REp. 202: Jake Kelfer - https://beitpod.com/jakekelferEp. 265: Daniella Mestyanek Young - https://beitpod.com/daniellayoungGuest Bio:Dr. Celeste Holbrook is a sex educator, speaker, and small-town Texas horse girl who's on a mission to make conversations about sex less awkward and way more empowering. With a Ph.D. in Health Education from Texas Woman's University and a thriving virtual practice, Celeste helps people create lives filled with pleasure, connection, and confidence—starting in the bedroom. After years of struggling with pain and shame around sex, she set out to find answers no one else could give her—and ended up becoming the expert she needed. Today, she guides women toward pleasurable sex by helping them understand their bodies, claim their worth, and ask for what they want without apology. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Celeste Holbrook 0:00  Expecting your sex life to look the same when you are 20 and 30 and 50 and 70 is not helpful for you, and so allowing it to mature as you mature is the most helpful thing that you can do for yourself, I think, when when it comes to your sex life.Lesley Logan 0:19  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. Lesley Logan 1:02  Hey, Be It babe, okay, this might be the first guest that is coming on for a third appearance. I think she won. I could be wrong, but I think she won. Dr. Celeste Holbrook is back. She's back. We're gonna talk about a couple of things. We're gonna talk about sex, we're (inaudible) we're gonna talk about her book. We're gonna talk about the journey that one goes on to get their work out into this world. And so even if you are like, I don't want to talk about the sex part, like, well, we should talk about the sex part. That's actually what we should do. But I want you to hear this, because I think it's so easy to hear people on a podcast go, oh, it's so easy for them because they got on a podcast, like, it's so easy, and you don't hear all the doors that get shut all the time. And I also am excited for you to hear like there are people in this world who just want to help each other out, and I think we need evidence of that. And I'm super, super excited that I get to be a cheerleader for amazing humans in this world like that. When I think about my, like, genius zone or something like that. Like, sometimes I think it's that I just get to cheer on people who are doing hard things and go, I see you, and you're doing great. And I can't wait. I can't wait. So guys, I'm gonna stop this, because we're gonna get right into we get right into it. And if you have this is the first time you're hearing about Dr. Celeste Holbrook, I really encourage you to go back to the first two episodes we did together. Go do the oldest one, then the second one, because I think you'll get a full picture of everything. We talked about a lot of good stuff. So she's gonna change your life. All right, here she is. Lesley Logan 2:31  All right, all right. So you guys, we're just gonna get right into this episode. Dr. Celeste Holbrook is back. You guys, third time won't be the last time. I somehow have to have her on annually. I think, Celeste, can you tell everyone why you're back. Let's just get in. Let's just start there. Celeste Holbrook 2:46  Okay, so I'm so excited, I can't even, like, contain myself. So I'm back because I have a book out, and I have a book really, truly because of Lesley Logan, because I have tried to publish this book for so long with traditional publishing, and I just got closed door after closed door after closed door for a lot of different reasons, which maybe we do and don't go into, I don't know, but Lesley reached out to me and was like, Celeste, I have this company. They do professional publishing. They're really great, and I just latched onto it, and I did every single thing that they suggested, and it was such a beautiful experience. So the whole point of this is I have a book, and I have a book because of you, and I want to aggressively love you today for encouraging me to do this.Lesley Logan 3:38  I am taking all that love also like this podcast, is why you have it, because I met that guy, because I interviewed him. And I have to, like, I'm not even I'll have to go back to the archives to figure out how I got this person, but I interviewed him, and I'm like, I really like this person. Like, I think he's great. Like, I've written a book, and I would have loved his help. Then, because I met him and had him on the pod, we had three of our clients use him, so I got to see from different perspectives how it was so when, and here's the thing, you were always on my feed, like, the algorithm would always, like, send you, and I like, just love all your stuff. And then it, like, kind of stopped, because I don't know that's how the algorithm works. And I happened to look at your stories, it was your stories, I'm pretty sure, and you were sharing this thing. And I'm not normally someone who's like, let me go in on the six minutes of a story. But I was like, I'm procrastinating. I'm in and so I was like, wow, what perfect timing this was, because I could have easily missed that whole section. And so I just want to, I'm just so grateful for divine like, I think that, like, there's divine appointments and divine interventions in a non-church way, guys, but we're meant to be in each other's lives and this book. Okay, so I guess, in case people don't know who you are, maybe we should do a quick like, who are you? Because we have new listeners, right? Hi, new listeners. You're going to want to go back to the other two. We're going to link them in the show notes. But can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at? Celeste Holbrook 4:57  Yes, absolutely. So my name is Dr. Celeste Holbrook, I am a sex educator, and I have a PhD in health behaviors with a postgraduate emphasis in sexual behaviors. So I help people, a lot of women and lots of couples, figure out how to make sex better, whether that is they are experiencing pain or they're experiencing shame from growing up in like, ultra religious household, or they just need, like, some help through menopause or through after having a baby or things like that. So I am your very practical sexual health help. That's what I do. Lesley Logan 5:38  I love it the practical because, you know, like, I will say, having lived in L.A. and going to different sex shops, you don't look like the person who works the sex shop. Celeste Holbrook 5:48  No, no. Lesley Logan 5:50  Not to like, like to stereotype. But there's a, there would be a type that, like, works at the sex shop, and it's not you.Celeste Holbrook 5:56  Yeah, no, it's not me. And I just want to be super accessible, because not everybody wants to, like, swing from the chandeliers all the time. You know, a lot of people are out there just struggling to find the time to connect. Like, I cannot tell you how many times I have had a conversation about what to do with the dog in your bedroom when you want to have sex so the dog's not looking over at you or jumping on the bed, or, like, these are the practical applications that we are talking about in sex education in my consult sessions.Lesley Logan 6:27  Yeah, well, and because, because I think everyone's just so overwhelmed, like I saw something, and someone's stories, and they're like, went to their friend, their niece's like, soccer game, and she's like, looking around just like, no wonder no one's having sex. Like everybody is at the soccer game and they're exhausted, and then get the soccer game they're fighting about to do or you forgot the thing. Like, no, no answer. But nobody wants to have sex after this. Celeste Holbrook 6:53  No, no. Why would you want to have sex after that? Exactly right. That's exactly right, yep. Lesley Logan 6:59  So, so I want to touch on, like, there's a lot of different chapters, and maybe this is something that your book covers, but like, there's, you know, I think when we're younger and like, it feels like it's easier to do things, maybe, and then you get older, and like, there's more responsibilities and there's more stuff to think about. And like, it becomes something that goes away, and then your hormones change. So, in your book, do you cover, like, the journeys that were all going on, or is it more specifically for people from the purity culture, like, what? What were you excited to write about?Celeste Holbrook 7:30  Sure. So the book is called, I have the manuscript and printed out right here. It's called Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture. So I do take the approach of, like you growing up in a purity culture background, in, like, a high demand religion background, evangelical culture, things like that. But the book is in four parts. So like a four-part guide to basically healing, and you can apply these steps to any issue you are having in sex. So, yes, I do talk quite a bit about the effects of purity culture and how to overcome those effects. But it can, you can apply it to, you know, the trauma you had from a sexual assault. You can apply it to just the doldrums of being married to the same old penis for like, 20 years or whatever, you know, like you can apply these steps to anybody. So basically, there's four steps, and I have made them into archetypal women. So your first step is your analyst. She's like, the nerd she's looking at, like, okay, what are we carrying around? What does your backpack look like that you're carrying around? Is it full of shame? Is it full of neglect? Is it full of fear? Like she's the analyst. Your second archetypal woman is your assassin. She's she is taking what the analyst has found, and she is just like, slicing through it, right? She's your assassin. She's your inner assasin. She's your deconstruction, basically. Your third archetypal woman is your healer. So after you've done the work of understanding what's in your backpack, slicing out what needs to go, then your healer starts helping you regenerate your ideas about sex through a gentle reeducation. So we're relearning about some things that maybe we have always thought one way about. Maybe we're relearning about the idea of virginity. We're relearning the I about masturbation. We're relearning about what great sex is, right? The healer is our gentle reeducation, and then our fourth archetypal women woman is our explorer, and she's like, gonna try some new things. She's gonna go to the sex toy store, she's going to touch herself in a new way, and maybe, if that's too much, maybe she's gonna try sex with the lights on, right. And so these are the four women. They represent four steps, and within each step there are some really practical things that you can do to help move you to the next step. So you can apply this to any issue you're having in sex, and get to the other side where you're trying, you're you're now exploring, you're trying new things.Lesley Logan 10:12  I that's a way. I mean, well, like an archetype. I like that. And I've, you've been on my mind a lot lately, because society is quite interesting right now, like the trad wife situation. I'm like, that looks really beautiful. Like, I would love, like, I have white countertops. I'd love them to clean all the time. I'm certainly not capable of doing it. But I'm like, I don't know that. I think they're doing a really good job marketing a beautiful esthetic without realizing, like, all the stuff that comes with that, you know, like, all the religious stuff that comes with that, and how that can harm how we feel about our bodies. And I, I like, was raised in purity culture, and I didn't think it affected me. I'm like, I'm good. But actually, no, actually, I remember, like, I remember, oh, it does, because you're like, you think that you're like, oh, I'm on that. I'm that doesn't affect that like you, you start to realize, even if you weren't raised in church, just the way that public school systems have appropriated some of the modesty rules, like what you're told, what you can wear to school and and how thick this the tank top strap can be, and you can't be disruptive, even though the boys' pants are halfway down their legs, and I'm looking at underwear all the time. You know, I think that even for people who weren't raised where they're told, like, your father has you until you're given away to someone else, there is some level where all of us were affected by like, don't be a distraction. Don't, make sure you don't wear that so you don't look like a certain like you're not attracting bad people, you know, that kind of a thing.Celeste Holbrook 11:44  Yeah, I totally agree, Lesley. I think that there's very few people in the United States that have a great, comprehensive, inclusive sex education. I think very few of us. I think this is changing, and hopefully with, you know, recycle breaking next and next generations, but American society in general wants to put sex on either end of a spectrum. We want to either like, don't think about it. Don't talk about it. This is not for you until you are reaching a certain age or marriage or whatever, and then on the other side is like, why aren't you liberated enough to have all to do all these things you know, like, so there's these two, like, ends of the spectrum, and all of us really live in the middle. Yeah, none of us is really on either side at all, but we but it like breaks America's brain to try and think about, like, living outside of one of those two spectrums. So I talk about in the book about the non, about the non-binary. We are not binary people. As far as what we want to do in our sex life, and figuring out, how do you live in the middle area, which we often call gray, but I call glitter. Yes, it's the most fabulous place to live is in the middle, in this glittery middle, where you get to define your own sex ethic based on your value system, on your intuition, on your sex education, and you get to decide what works best for you. And maybe that is boundaries around when you have sex awesome, as long as it's your choice that's amazing. And maybe that is opening your relationship up and trying swinging or whatever it is that's awesome as long as it's your decision and not one manipulated by society or cultural values or religious values.Lesley Logan 13:27  Yeah, I think that's, I think I like to think about that even this thing, it's, you're right, it's America, it's people like, I'm in Pilates industry. And I said something the other day where I was like, well, you can say that, but it doesn't like, there's also the idea that we could prepare people for an exercise, right? And this person, like, went off on me, and I was like, so you need to understand that what you're mad about me is what you're doing here. Second, Pilates is not black or white. It's not this or that. It's a lot of gray. It's a lot of glitter, like glitter. It's like, because our bodies are different and where we are in our practice, where we are in our life, maybe what season we're in, maybe you're in a season of young children, it's going to be very different what you're wanting and ready for, and have the capacity to take on versus they're teenagers and out of the house and really don't care where you are versus you don't have kids at all. Like, there's all these different seasons. And I think we are like, oh, this is how I've always liked it, so this is how I have to keep liking it. Celeste Holbrook 14:25  Yes, yes, that's so wise, Lesley, that's so wise. I think there are a lot of and we talked about this in our last on our last podcast together, a lot of the similarities between what happens in sex and what happens in like a Pilates, a workout space or Pilates space, as far as how we view our bodies and what we feel is like, right, or what we feel is appropriate, I guess, for our bodies like I should be wanting this, because that's what I did when I was 27 or I should be looking like this, because that's what I looked like when I was whatever, 30 or whatever. And I think there's lots of room to allow ourselves compassion to grow as we grow in our sex life, in our workouts and whatever, expecting your sex life to look the same when you are 20 and 30 and 50 and 70 is not helpful for you, and so allowing it to mature as you mature is the most helpful thing that you can do for yourself, I think, when, when it comes to your sex life. Lesley Logan 15:28  Yeah, we'll keep talking about this, it'll come up. But I do, I do want to go back to like, the journey of this book, because this book has been in you for a really long time. And I think whether or not people want to write a book, you can insert goal, whatever your goal is, because you we will all in trying to get something out into the world or get something that we desire done, hit roadblocks. So you hit some roadblocks. Can we talk about, how many years of roadblocks? Can we talk about what you like, what kind of roadblocks you were hitting and, like, how did you keep going? Because quite honestly, I'm surprised you even told the story, you know what I mean, like, I'm surprised you didn't go, okay, well, that's that, the door, the door has been slammed shut.Celeste Holbrook 16:12  Yeah, yeah. And I really appreciate you asking this, because I know sex is really fun to talk about, but this is, like, my personal, like, lifelong dream is to have a book, and it feels really, I feel really seen when you ask about the process of it, and when I think about the be it, you know, be it till you see it, bold, executable. I think I'm getting this right, intrinsic, targeted, so I think about my word for this year was bold. So that was like, my like, I gotta be more bold. I want to say what I want to say. I don't want to be making myself smaller anymore. So the story behind the book, I have always thought about writing a book. I myself am a slow reader. I don't read very fast, and I for a long, long time I thought I was dumb because I don't read very fast, which is silly when I think about it now, but all growing up, I was slower than all of my friends reading. It was frustrating to read. And I've just, I like, I was still a good student. I still did all of the things that I needed to do, but I just, I just took time. I just took more time to write, to read all of those things, and I think in part, that's what made me get a PhD, because I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn't dumb. Turns out, I'm not dumb. I just am. I need to go at my own pace. And so one of the things that you talk about a lot on the podcast is like, how do you prioritize yourself? I prioritize myself by allowing myself to go at my own pace, like I can read as slow as I need to read, I can answer emails as slow as I need to answer emails. It's frustrating to me and other people, but at the end of the day, like it, it's honestly who I am. I'm just considerate and slow and thoughtful, and I've learned to like that about myself instead of hate that about myself. So the idea of writing a book was really, like tantalizing to me, but I had a lot of insecurities about my ability to actually do it. I'd written a dissertation, which is I, in my opinion, harder because it's boring. Lesley Logan 18:19  Yeah, yeah, no, that's one of the reasons why I, like, stopped going to school. I was like, I can't write another boring paper.Celeste Holbrook 18:25  Oh, my God. Like, who's reading? Like, my mom didn't even read it. She's like, oh, congratulations. It's like, collecting dust, right? So I had done that, and so I thought, like, well, if I'd written a dissertation, it just take you just take a chunk at a time. I can surely write a book. So in 2000 and let's see 2016, Nate and I was like, Nate, I really want to write a book. I'm going to go to a writer's conference. So he's like, great, let's go. I was like, found one in Hawaii. He's like, even better, let's go.Lesley Logan 18:55  I love, I love when a goal and a tax write off can be in a place you want to go. Celeste Holbrook 19:01  That's right, that's exactly right. We ended up getting a tent. There's like, these glamping tents on Maui that you can get, and it's just, like, really fun. It's like, on the beach, but you still have, like, sort of a bathroom, you know. But so we're, like, we needed to do it on cheap, because we were kind of broke, like, got these glamping tents, and I went to these writers conference during the day, and Nate did whatever during the day was at this writing conference, and it was through Hay House, and there was a contest. So if you went to the writers conference and you wrote a proposal, you could enter it in, and they were going to pick three writers to to give a book deal to, I would, and this is me being so sure of myself. Like, yes, I've spent a lot of time feeling insecure that about my reading and writing. But for the most part, my whole life, I have been, like, with no good reason, confident. Like, I'm just like, I don't know, confident.Lesley Logan 19:53  Yeah. I mean, that's cool. That's a great that's so many people don't inherently have that. I. And like to kind of have that and then use it is a wonderful, it's a wonderful thing. Celeste Holbrook 20:06  Yeah, I just, I just was like, no, I'm gonna get this, you know, I'm gonna write this proposal. People are gonna love it. I'm gonna get this competition. Anyway, long story short, did not win any (inaudible). Lesley Logan 20:16  Oh, I thought this was going towards you won. Oh, my God, she won. It. (inaudible) second look. I automatically just assumed you're gonna slay. So I'm just like, she won.Celeste Holbrook 20:32  This is about closed doors, Lesley. Lesley Logan 20:34  Okay, that's true. That's true. Celeste Holbrook 20:36  Yes. So I did not win. I was for sure I was gonna win, did not win, not even, like, a hello, right? So I was like, oh, maybe I need to work a little harder. So I had this whole proposal. My book was like, looking back, I'm like, I'm so glad that I didn't win. My book was called Sexual Wealth. Lesley Logan 20:54  Oh, yeah, that's that's not you.Celeste Holbrook 20:57  It's not me. I was like, it was like, sex through finance, bro language or something. And I was just like, this is a terrible idea, but the spark was there, like, I really wanted to write a book. So that was 2016 I kind of held onto it, thought about it, kind of put it in a drawer for a while. In 2019 I got on a fairly large podcast with Jen Hatmaker, so she's an author, and she does a lot of work in, like the ex-evangelical space, or had started down that road. So I got on this podcast through just like pitching. I got on this podcast. It's pretty big, big podcast. And not long after that, a person from HarperCollins, like a division of Harper Collins, reached out to me and said, hey, have you ever considered writing a book? So the publisher reached out to me, which is very unusual. Lesley Logan 21:47  That is cool, though. Yes. Celeste Holbrook 21:49  Yeah, yeah, very unusual. Usually, you are pitching to publishers. So they heard me on the podcast, and they were like, hey, you know, we're interested in you submitting a proposal. I'm like, I'm freaking out. Like, this is so exciting, right? I realize I probably need representation, so I get a literary agent. I kind of shop around and get a literary agent. She's amazing, Rochelle, and I end up pitching my proposal. I worked it out, you know, I update it from sexual wealth to something else. I update it, I pitch it, and they're pretty slow. The publishing industry is so slow, you know this, you know this, so slow. Lesley Logan 22:24  I have watched too many of my friends write books. I'm so great. I'm proud of all of them. But also the ones that have gone traditional publishing, it is slow, like molasses moves faster, you guys. That's, you know, like, just don't bet on don't hold your breath.Celeste Holbrook 22:40  Oh my gosh, it's the slowest process of all time. And so I was like, okay, I, you know, they reached out to me. So I'm here in my very confident space, like, oh no, they're gonna laugh. Yeah, they're gonna choose. They reached out to me. Why wouldn't they choose me? At this point, I have like, 1500 followers. I have, like, I have no platform, right? I still have a very small platform, but a bunch of really engaged, lovely humans. So I'm, I'm fairly sure they're going to choose me. Eventually, months and months and months later, they get back to me and they're like, yes, we want it is literally like, I don't know, six months later, they're like, we want to offer you a contract, and we want to go under contract, just small. It's a $20,000 contract. They're gonna pay me 10,000 upfront, and then 10,000 the book publishes. I was like, great, I have to pay out my agent too. So I'm I'm coming home with like, $8,500. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Just to get one dime to like (inaudible).Lesley Logan 23:36  I mean that you got anything, because it's not, it's not always normal that even a first time writer gets anything until the book sells. So, yeah.Celeste Holbrook 23:44  Yes. So I was thrilled. I was thrilled. So I started writing my little heart out. They don't actually give me anything, a contract or anything, until my my my first draft is due. So I turned in my first draft and then they signed me. So I write the whole book without a contract. So submit the first draft. This is like March of 2020, so keep that in, put to context. Things that are. Lesley Logan 24:08  Things are things are going on. Celeste Holbrook 24:10  Things are going on. What's happening? So I get my first round of edits back. I'm still super excited. And then in July, my agent calls me, and she's like, I hate to have this conversation with you, but your book has been orphaned. Your editor left the company, and nobody else wants to pick it up. Lesley Logan 24:32  No, no. Celeste Holbrook 24:35  Yeah. So this is like, in the big scheme of things, like, it was the way it needed to work out, because they were already giving me feedback. It was the (inaudible) the imprint. And I'm not trying to slander any publishing industry, but this is just what happened to me, right? I was getting feedback of, like, oh, I don't know if you should, like, go that hard. Or I don't know if you should. You might alienate readers. If you talk about religion in this way, or, you know, this is you're gonna lose your Catholic audience. I'm like, I'm not trying to make the Catholics happy. I'm sorry. Lesley Logan 25:12  Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I interviewed, I don't know if it was in my interview, but when I was talking with Daniella Mestyanek Young who wrote Uncultured, she was only allowed to talk about three sexual like, misconduct, things that happened to her, and not even the worst ones. They actually, like, got rid, yes, yeah, they were like, and you can only talk like they she had to. And she's been very vocal about it. She's like, because she was talking about God and all these things and like, like, yeah, you can't really talk about that. And then she was like, you know, saying that she got raped in military. And they're like, so we don't like, maybe we just do only one of those, like, very and so, and she was with a publisher, and she got published, but she it's a watered down version of her story, because apparently readers wouldn't be able to handle the true thing. And it's like, you know, like, we're, how are we supposed to change the world? We don't know what's going on. So anyways, yeah. Celeste Holbrook 26:02  Yeah, I and I heard, I heard that kind of from different places, like, oh yeah. I had to, like, say this instead of that or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, that's a little bit happening to me. And I had written it with the understanding, like, this is for a still Christian audience. I understood this, it was with a Christian publisher. So I'm like, that's fine. Like, as a sex educator, you have to be able to be fluid enough to write to the audience that's in front of you. Like, when I go speak, sometimes I'm in front of really conservative audiences, and I adapt my language. That's fine. Like, that's okay to do. I'm still, I still feel helpful. I still feel like I'm pushing the envelope, but in a way that feels the most accessible for the audience in front of me. So I'm okay adjusting, but also like I didn't, I didn't want to water it down so much that I felt like it wasn't me. Lesley Logan 26:51  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Celeste Holbrook 26:53  So anyway, lost my contract in July 1st of 2020, which was and that whole thing, the whole next two years was really difficult. My husband is an emergency medicine physician and it was just a real hard time in the family, family. Lesley Logan 27:09  Yeah, no, lots, lots going on, lots of stress, lots of worry, lots. Yeah, you're afraid, yeah, you know. So like, you know. So we live where we live, and not everyone believe we're going through certain things. So that's even more stressful. Yeah. Oh, my God, that's a lot. The book, the book hit a wall.Celeste Holbrook 27:26  It hit it hit a wall, and probably had to find time. But I was, I was really, just really sad. Rochelle, my agent, was like, okay, we're just gonna, like, pick it back up. We have this proposal, we have a book written. It's, it'll be easier for another publisher to pick us up. And so we start, like, pitching to these other publishing companies. She has all these connections, you know, she's pitching, pitching, pitching, nothing's landing. I'm getting good feedback back. Like, you know, your platform's too small. That's fair. I started trying to grow it. You know, that's when Instagram was a little easier to grow. Now it's super hard to grow. But started growing it. I went from 1500 to 20,000 you know. Lesley Logan 28:04  That's a big deal, because other 20,000 like, those are not bought, you know, like, yeah.Celeste Holbrook 28:09  No, yeah. And I'm a hard follow. I get that. I have, like, you know, dildos in my videos. Like, I get that I'm not an easy follow. It's not and I'm, you know, Shadow banned all the time, and I get all these notifications that my stuff is not being shown to new audiences. I get that. I get that I'm a hard follow, but that's what publishers want. They want you to have a ready-to-buy platform, which I get. They're trying to make money. But I got a lot of that feedback. I got a lot of, ooh, this is a little it's a little too much for us as a Christian publisher. Like, okay, I get that. And then it was kind of like this line for non, non-Christian publishers, like, we don't really, we don't really talk about religion that much, and then we're not really talking about sex that much.Lesley Logan 29:00  Right? So you're like, too much of the different things for the different people, that's really rough, because it's like, we'll never be everything for anyone, but to not feel like you fit somewhere when you have something to say, that's hard.Celeste Holbrook 29:13  Yeah, yeah, it is really hard. And I think it's what people needed. It's because it's, again, it's the glitter, it's the middle. Like, yeah, I don't fit into either of these spaces. I'm kind of like exploring the middle, right? So that was the feedback I was getting. And finally, we did that for five years, from 2020 to 2025 October of 2025 Rochelle had a call with me, and she's like, honey, I have nowhere else to go. I'm sorry. This has to be the end of it. Bless her. She she did the best that she had, and I am forever grateful for her. But that was it, and that was that's where we're caught up to, where you saw my story, and I was like, just sharing with my audience like I had an unhappy ending, and I'm gonna sit in my sadness right now and just tell you, like life isn't always hunky dory for a sex educator, for anybody, for you for me, and this is where I am right now, and I'm pissed and I'm sad, and the end, right? And then sweet Lesley shows up in my DMs, and she's like, babe, I have this great idea for you. I'm like, okay, so she you send me this information for this company I have a call with, I think Jake who you interviewed. Lesley Logan 30:19  Yeah, Jake Kelfer. Yep, yep, yep. Celeste Holbrook 30:21  I have a call with Jake, and let me tell you, working with them has been and I'm not getting paid for any of this right to for BIB, but working with them has been so healing, so much agency in the process. I got to say exactly what I wanted to say. I got to go at the pace that I wanted to go, like, it was just incredible. Lesley Logan 30:44  So is this book, like a new book? It's not what you're pitching around. It's the glitter you really wanted to write. Celeste Holbrook 30:51  It's the glitter I really wanted to write. Totally different. Yeah.Lesley Logan 30:54  Yes, oh, I love that. And also, like, so, first of all, you guys, did you hear five years? Five years and now we're going on, you know, like, so, yeah, five years and then now big. But here's the other thing, like going through all of those things, you got feedback and made tweaks and did these things. So then when you're writing the book that we're gonna all get to read, I can't even wait to read it. It's the best version of a book that could ever be, because it's really not your first book you've written so manyCeleste Holbrook 31:24  You're so right. And over the course of the years, I changed, as we should. I hope I look back in five years and go like, yeah, I'm a different, new person from who wrote this book. But I was different, and I was more comfortable, like, straight up saying I'm not a Christian anymore. You know, I was more comfortable saying, like, is this a religious book? Yes, because we talk about religion. Do I identify as Christian? No, because of these reasons. Do I think we could learn some stuff from the Bible? Sure. Do I think we're going to talk about the Bible? Yes. I think we have to, because we're talking about purity culture. But I don't, you know, certainly not in 2020 was I willing to be like, yeah, I'm not a Christian, but so much stuff happened between 2020 and 2025, that just took me right on out.Lesley Logan 32:10  Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you on that. I and, you know, like, I have a brother in seminary school, so it's very interesting around here. And I had just said, you know, if, if, the if, all the Christians in the world actually did what Jesus said, like, we would have solved child child poverty and immigration and health care. And, you know, I've had a family member respond, well, if everyone just came to know, and I'm like, no, no, no, that's actually not what the Bible says. Here's the problem, I've read it so like I where I am in my life, which five years ago I was definitely not. Is just like I'm frustrated that a book, any book, has controlled people in such a way that's affecting even their sex lives, but also just lives, the lives of people who didn't even read the book. And so that's where, like, I get upset we don't have to have religious talk on this podcast. But that's that's just where, like, I'm coming from as a person with it. I'm, like, I have a really hard time with it, because it's not a loving world, and it with all the people who say they are, you know, believers. It should be. It should be a very loving world. So, so I think it's really I love. Thank you for sharing the story. This is great.Celeste Holbrook 33:30  Yeah, I totally. I just want to affirm what you're saying. Because I think the the main bottom line for me was it has harmed more than it has helped. Has it helped? Absolutely, there's some really beautiful ways in which Christianity has helped, but has it harmed more than it has helped? I absolutely believe, yes. And so for me, that was the final straw. Do I think Jesus was cool? Yeah. I think He was a radical non-white dude who did really amazing things that we can learn from, right? I believe he saved me from my sins. Not really, but, yeah, that's where I landed. And I was able to say this in in this book, which I would never have been able to do before. Lesley Logan 34:09  Well, also, thank you for sharing it with us, because I also just someone like to see it's a really interesting thing to say, like my husband and I, like go like to say out loud, it's very I don't want to speak for him, because, like, maybe it was a different but, like, it's really hard to say out loud when you're like, I don't believe anymore, and you're like, you know?Celeste Holbrook 34:29  Right, it feels really weird. Lesley Logan 34:31  Yeah, it does. But because it's such an identity that you're raised with, and I think going back to, like, that purity culture that your book is about, and by the way, everyone, like, I just want to say, like, even if you haven't been in that, it's, I think that reading about those things really helps me. It makes it helps make the world make sense to me. Like, I read Tia Levings book, A Well-Trained Wife, and I was like, oh, I get it now. I get why they're acting like this. I get why they're thinking this. Because, like, otherwise, you're like looking at people like they're aliens, and you're like, I don't understand. So I also think it can be really impactful to read just to understand, what are people thinking? What are they going through? Why is it harder for some people to have great sex, or want to have great sex, or feel comfortable having great sex, than for other people? Celeste Holbrook 35:18  Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's so fun, interesting. Most of couples that I talk to, most of them are straight couples, heterosexual couples, and a lot of times, the woman in the partnership will, you know, talk about sex in one way, and the man in the partnership will talk about sex in a different way. And just like, I just don't get it. If it feels good, why wouldn't you want to do it? And so when we kind of like, deconstruct and explain, like, well, she's been taught that sex is dangerous her whole life, and so her nervous system feels on alert, even when there are good things in the future to come with that sexual experience. So to have to overcome this idea of fear and danger in your nervous system, just to get to the beginning of arousal is a whole different ball game than you who starts at arousal, and because it feels very regulating, like, I lean into arousal because it feels regulating as a straight man who's raised in America, and so like, just being able to, like, if you're a dude who picks up this book, It might help you understand the women in your life a little bit better, even if they didn't grow up in purity culture. Most of us grew up with the idea that sex is going to harm us. Lesley Logan 36:28  Yeah, yes. Well, I mean, like, yeah, it's like, even if you weren't raised that way, you also, as a woman, were raised like, be fearful of any bad any man who's coming near you, walking up next to you, like, all these different things. And so it is very difficult to just like, let that go. It's not like, it's like, oh, it's Halloween. I can get Todd Kenny from a stranger now, like, this doesn't work like that. You know, like especially because it's like, your whole life these just little things that are being told. I think that's great for men to read. I think that's such a that's a, what a wonderful way to think about it, who this book could be helpful for? I want to take a brief detour, because you said something on your Instagram a bit ago that truly, like, blew my mind and also made so much sense, right? You said, if you're faking an orgasm, you're fawning, right? It's a fawn response. So can we talk about what a fawn response is? And that a little bit, because I think too many women do that. I only say that because I have friends who talk about it and I'm like, I mean, I just wouldn't just would be like, it's not working today, sir.Celeste Holbrook 37:38  Yes, yeah. I mean, I've done it when I was experiencing really painful sex when I first got married, because of vaginismus, because of purity culture, like I did anything to try and get out of the situation, right? So, so a fawn response is something that we do in response to something traumatic. When something traumatic happens, we go into fight, flight, freeze or on. So fawn is I'm pleasing you know this, this circumstance or person in my life, so there are no negative consequences, all right. So when we fake orgasms, and a lot of women have a lot of guilt around doing this, and this is why I posted that, because I want you to feel not guilty about this. I don't want you to do it forever, but I want you to understand why you're doing this. We fawn response an orgasm when we feel overwhelming pressure to have an orgasm when we feel overwhelming pressure to have an orgasm, it's coming from a fragile man who cannot handle or has put too much value on your ability to come as a validation for his ability to be great, right? I put too much pressure on your ability to be to come is a validation of my ability to be good or great. So part of the work has to become men saying like my validation is not wrapped up in her ability to come, without saying, I still can't give her pleasure. It's kind of, it's, it's, it's nuanced, but I really want women to understand when you're fawning, when you're faking an orgasm, you are essentially doing harm reduction. I don't want the negative consequences of his fragility, so I will fake it so I don't have to deal with that. That is easier for me. That is harm reduction.Lesley Logan 39:47  Right, right, right. And one would hope that a conversation or few could be had, like, here's what's going on and here's how I don't want you to feel and here like, yeah, that's probably where you come in. Celeste Holbrook 40:01  Yes, yeah. It's a really delicate situation. I do have lots of times people come in and the female, the woman in the partnership, will be like, hey, you know, this is what's going on, and this is why I want us together to come but to sessions, but like, I don't know how to tell him, like, it's been years and I've been faking it for years, right? Okay, no problem. We don't have to. I don't believe full transparency is always kind. I believe in honesty. I don't necessarily believe in full transparency. Like, you can, you can be really unkind with full transparency, but you can still be honest. Like, hey, I really want to experience a little bit more sensation when we have sex. Can we work on some new techniques? Can I show you how I masturbate? Can we make it slower so I can feel something different? I really want to make my orgasm stronger, right? So we can be clear with what we want going forward without being like, you know what? I faked it for the last 12 years, right? Because that's on you for not for not saying something as well. Lesley Logan 41:08  Yeah? Because that doesn't like, it can only be, it's not anyone's fault. But also, like, they can't change if they don't know, yeah. Oh, you're so brilliant. You're so amazing. Wait, when is the book coming out? When do I get to read it? When can I preorder, like.Celeste Holbrook 41:23  You are so cute. So it'll by the time this drops, it'll already be out, and we'll send links to to upload it, but it comes out on June 10th and so it's right around the corner. Lesley Logan 41:32  Okay, well, I'm gonna pre I'm gonna pre order. I gotta or I'll order on June 10th. So we can make you a number one, Bestselling Author. We get whatever we get to do, so I can write my authenticated review. After buying it, all the things I can't wait. I'll take it with me on tour.Celeste Holbrook 41:49  Thank you. I'm so like, I just like, I'm cheesing so hard because I'm so excited about it. I reread it again this morning, just like as a skim to look at all the layout on the pages. And I'm just so proud of it. I'm so proud of it, like it finally is here.Lesley Logan 42:07  I have so many chills. I'm gonna cry. Okay, we're gonna take a brief break. We're gonna find out how people can find you, follow you and work with you. Celeste Holbrook 42:14  Okay. Lesley Logan 42:15  All right, Dr. Celeste Holbrook, where do you hang out? You said Instagram. Is there anywhere else? What links? What input handles? Where can they go to buy the book is it on your website, all the things.Celeste Holbrook 42:25  Yes, the book is on the website, but you can buy it the most easily on Amazon. If you do, please leave a review that would be really helpful. And you can go to my website to get into Pleasure Club. That's my monthly subscription where we have a sex ed session every month and a book club session every month we flip between fiction and nonfiction books, which is really, really fun. Lesley Logan 42:44  Oh, fun. I know Brad and I got into the, of course, like everybody in the world, we got into the the dragon situation, yeah. Okay, every. Celeste Holbrook 42:52  Fourth wing? Lesley Logan 42:53  Yeah, yes. Fourth wing, the second one, the third one. You guys, we actually reread the first and second one to listen to the third one, we're going to go back through all three. Highly recommend it with your, with your partner. I think it's a great she writes good sex stories. They don't it's not super cheesy. So I really like them. Celeste Holbrook 43:13  I love that. I think this revolution. I mean, people have been reading Roman ensembles forever, but I think it's really healing. I actually wrote about this in my newsletter this week. Reading sex scenes through a female lens is really, really healing and really helpful, because it it gives you the confidence to be like, oh, I can ask for that, or I can wait for that, or I can ask to slow down or speed up, or whatever, and I can expect somebody to listen and garner consent and all of those things. So reading sex scenes through the female lens or listening to them, I think, is very, very helpful. Celeste Holbrook 43:46  Yeah, yeah. Anyways, I got distracted from your book club. So what's your website again? What's your handle? Celeste Holbrook 43:53  So you can find me at Dr. Celeste Holbrook on Instagram, on and on YouTube, and my web, my website. drcelesteholbrook.com. I just had like a whole mind blowing, like I was thinking about sex scenes written through the female Iens and I couldn't I couldn't go back. Yeah.? So, drcelesteholdbrook is where you can find me almost anywhere. Dr Celeste Holbrook. Lesley Logan 44:14  Perfect, yeah. Sorry, I have an ADHD brain. Lesley Logan 44:16  I love it. I love it. Lesley Logan 44:18  Bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us this time? Celeste Holbrook 44:23  Oh, well, something we talked about already earlier. But the way that I am best executable is actually just to go at my own pace, even though it's slow.Lesley Logan 44:32  Yeah. Oh, I love that. I really do love that. And I also, you mentioned, like, the prioritizing of self. That's one of the ways you did it. I wanted to acknowledge like when you sat in your car and you shared that something had come to an end, that is also a way of prioritizing yourself, because you're feeling your feelings, and you're also letting people know that you're feeling these feelings, like we don't have to, like pretend around people, so just thank you for being you, and always for, you are always in the word gets misused, but you are so authentic and so authentic and just, I really feel like I've it's been so fun over the past five years to watch you grow with what you're doing and how you're educating people and how you're supporting people. And so I'm just so grateful to be on your journey. I can't wait to read your book. I'm so stoked for you. This is the coolest thing. And and you guys, how are you gonna use these tips in your life? Please tag Dr. Celeste Holbrook, send this to a friend. Here is the deal, not all friendships talk about sex, so one of the things you can do is just send the podcast or the book. You don't have to have the if you're not there yet, that's okay. But I think like, the more, the more women hear about all these different things that could be glitter, the more life we're living and the more fun we're having, the more we feel seen. So just thank you so much for being you, Dr. Celeste Holbrook.Celeste Holbrook 45:53  Lesley, you are the reason this book exists. I cannot thank you enough. Thank you so much for having me in your life and on your podcast. And someday, someday we will hug each other in real life.Lesley Logan 46:03  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We will. It'll happen. I think this winter tour, I feel it in me. All right, you guys, you know what to do. Until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 46:12  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 46:54  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 46:59  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 47:03  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 47:11  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 47:14  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On Washington Wednesday, Hunter Baker considers John Bolton's handling of national security information; on World Tour, Christian persecution in Nigeria; and transforming spaces for families in crisis. Denny Burk on Jen Hatmaker's deconstruction, and the Wednesday morning newsSupport The World and Everything in It today at wng.org/donateAdditional support comes from WatersEdge. Save more. Do more. Give more. Helping Christians support ministry by giving through a donor-advised fund. watersedge.com/DAFFrom Audio Deacon, a podcast for Christians and listeners who want more than background noise. Episodes offer thoughtful album reviews, curated lists of recordings, and conversations with musicians and thought leaders teaching maturing believers how to listen to music with biblical wisdom. It's also a resource for parents, guiding you through music's glories, pitfalls, and conversations worth having. Listen and subscribe at audio-deacon.com and read more at audiodeacon.substack.comWebsite: audio-deacon.comSubstack: audiodeacon.substack.comPodcast: Buzzsprout | Apple | SpotifyAnd from Covenant College. Rigorous academics, grounded in Reformed theology, lived out in Christ-centered community. covenant.edu/WORLD

Be sure to visit cultureproof.net Please consider supporting the Culture Proof Podcast. We aim to bring engaging content that will challenge and equip Christians to live according to the Straight Edge of Scripture. All gifts are tax deductible. Our Address is: S.E. Ministries PO Box 1269 Saltillo MS, 38866   Episode sponsors: BJUPress Homeschool We Heart Nutrition – Use the code CULTUREPROOF for 20% off Accountable2You – Try free for 10 days Culture Proof Listeners  THANKS!   Culture Proof Podcast Theme song "Believers" courtesy of Path of Revelation    

Today, we dive into tech billionaire Peter Thiel and his bizarre upcoming Antichrist seminars, which blend transhumanism with Christian rhetoric. His vision for human perfection and immortality via technology appears to defy biblical truth, and Thiel's tech-driven vision risks leading souls astray from the gospel. Plus, we talk about Jen Hatmaker's New York Times interview and make a big announcement. Share the Arrows 2025 is on October 11 in Dallas, Texas! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠sharethearrows.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for tickets now! Sponsored by: ⁠Carly Jean Los Angeles⁠: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.carlyjeanlosangeles.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Good Ranchers⁠: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.goodranchers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠EveryLife⁠: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.everylife.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://a.co/d/4COtBxy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Timecodes: (00:50) Jen Hatmaker NYT Interview (15:45) A Big Announcement (23:05) Who is Peter Thiel? (34:05) Transhumanism & Technology (43:40) The Rise of the Antichrist (1:00:40) Keep Your Dogs Home! --- Today's Sponsors: A'del — Try A'del's hand-crafted, artisan, small-batch cosmetics and use promo code ALLIE 25% off your first time purchase at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠⁠⁠⁠AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Good Ranchers — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GoodRanchers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and subscribe to any of their boxes (but preferably the Allie Beth Stuckey Box) to get free Waygu burgers, hot dogs, bacon, or chicken wings in every box for life. Plus, you'll get $40 off when you use code ALLIE at checkout. EveryLife — The only premium baby brand that is unapologetically pro-life. EveryLife offers high-performing, supremely soft diapers and wipes that protect and celebrate every precious life. Head to EveryLife.com and use promo code ALLIE10 to get 10% of your first order today! Seven Weeks Coffee — Experience the best coffee while supporting the pro-life movement with Seven Weeks Coffee; use code ALLIE at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to save up to 25% off your first order, plus your free gift! Pre-Born — Will you help rescue babies' lives? Donate by calling #250 & say keyword 'BABY' or go to Preborn.com/ALLIE. --- Episodes you might like: BONUS: Why Do We Want What We Want? | Guest: Luke Burgis https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bonus-why-do-we-want-what-we-want-guest-luke-burgis/id1359249098?i=1000582688513 Ep 1211 | Israel: What Should Christians Think? And an Announcement https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1211-israel-what-should-christians-think-and/id1359249098?i=1000714714917 Ep 1175 | Singularity: Davos' New AI-Backed Plan to Take Power | Guest: Justin Haskins https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1175-singularity-davos-new-ai-backed-plan-to-take/id1359249098?i=1000704354680 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://alliebethstuckey.com/book⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The former evangelical star on waking up halfway through her life. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The former evangelical star on waking up halfway through her life.

Description:  In Part 2 of this episode, we push even deeper — into the personal, the creative, the brave, and the sometimes scary places we go when we dare to  tell the truth. This time, Tyler Merritt has turned the tables on Jen and he's asking the questions!  We talk about what it's like to be seen, judged, misunderstood — and still choose honesty. We talk about Awake and the vulnerability involved with retelling the painful and unvarnished parts of your story. We talk about fear. And we talk about the joy we've found in the middle of it all. So let's jump back in. In this second installment: Jen talks about the last time that she felt truly brave and what it felt like to unearth and expose some of the most tender and personal moments of her life in such an honest and examining way Tyler asks Jen who was her best model of kindness at a young age Jen shares the song that is reflecting her current vibe in the world And Tyler asks Jen what she wishes more people understood about her Thought-provoking Quotes: "Our stories, though they may seem new, are the things that change the world." - Jen Hatmaker “What I asked myself when deciding to include or exclude something was, am I going to be proud of this five years from now? So that's five years further down the road. I'm going to be five years more mature, five years more healed, five more years of distance. Will I be proud of what I say five years from now? And I let that be my guide.” – Jen Hatmaker “It's been weird to be at that center of people's judgment for quite a long time now.  I've evolved a lot in the public eye, which is weird for everybody. It's weird for me. It's weird for people to watch. At all points along the way, I can say sincerely, I have really and truly been trying to do my best. I just wish people knew that.” – Jen Hatmaker “My story is not special and I think that's what makes it important. I hope that the readers will see their own story inside of it somewhere in some way on some level and then decide to take from mine what they need for theirs. So I can't wait to find out.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest's Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recorded live from the Oregon coast on the final day of MeCamp, this special two-part conversation between Jen and her partner Tyler Merritt is the perfect blend of hilarity, heart, and honesty. In Part 1, Jen and Tyler share stories from their MeCamp adventures — including a whale-watching excursion that got a little too close for comfort, and a near-death boat ride they'll never forget. They also reflect on the power of personal storytelling, how vulnerability has shown up in their lives and work, and why telling the truth (even when it's awkward) can be both healing and hilarious. Discussing the impact of Tyler's viral video "Before You Call the Cops" to Jen's reflections on her upcoming book "Awake," this conversation reveals the transformative potential of embracing vulnerability. Tune in to discover how opening up about our most personal stories can not only heal us but also inspire others to see themselves in our narratives. Tyler talks about the most awkward moment he's ever had because he opted to be vulnerable and honest instead of protecting his pride He and Jen discuss the hardest truths they've ever had to tell themselves And Tyler goes back into the annals to reveal his most embarrassing moment as a performer on stage Thought-provoking Quotes: “The spirit of MeCamp almost got us killed.”– Tyler Merritt “I'm aware that it's not every day that most people see a six foot two black man with dreadlocks crying in real life. I have never regretted a single moment in my life of being transparent about how I feel emotionally with somebody. Vulnerability has never kicked back at me in a negative way.”– Tyler Merritt “I think vulnerability begets vulnerability. Because I was saying who I am and I was allowing myself to be open to the world, the world was willing to take that. What it did within the black community is it allowed a lot of other black people to begin making their own videos going, before you call the cops, I just want you to know this about me. So it opened up a door of vulnerability that really allowed that to kind of echo.”– Tyler Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest's Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: We've got an absolute legend in the house. She's a country music powerhouse, a Grammy winner, a TV star, a best-selling cookbook author, and honestly, probably the only person who could out-sing you and out-cook you on the same day — we're talking about the one and only Trisha Yearwood. You know this queen's voice from classics like 'She's in Love with the Boy' and 'How Do I Live' — songs that have made us cry, and belt in our cars, and maybe text someone we shouldn't. And now, she's back with a brand new album called The Mirror — and let us tell you, it's not just a comeback, it's a reflection, literally. It's raw, it's real, and it's perhaps her most vulnerable project yet. The Mirror is Trisha's first album where she's co-written every song, stepping into new creative territory as both a singer and songwriter. It's a window into Trisha's life at this moment—a culmination of decades in the spotlight, but told on her own terms. It's not just an album—it's a statement of identity, and an invitation to look at yourself with courage and compassion. We're talking about life, love, growth, and how Trisha continues to reinvent herself while staying grounded in what matters. So grab a coffee, or something stronger, and get comfy — because Trisha and Jen are inviting us into their conversation on how we let go of the things that no longer fit who we are so we can embrace the things putting fresh wind at our backs. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There's something in me that really believes in me. It has to be or I wouldn't be sitting here doing these things.”– Trisha Yearwood “I've never been a person who could answer the question, ‘where do you see yourself in the next five years?' I just know that I'm open to the opportunities.”– Trisha Yearwood “For a long time. I let the approval part of me drive the car. I drove that car to plenty of places I was out of alignment with. I don't think I'll ever be completely rid of that voice, but she's in the backseat now. She's not driving the car anymore.”– Trisha Yearwood “Songwriting makes you instantly intimate because you're having to be really vulnerable.”– Trisha Yearwood “From a young age, a lot of women are taught that we don't get to write our own story and we don't get to take control. But you get to decide what the truth about you is and how you want your life to be.”– Trisha Yearwood Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Mirror Album by Trisha Yearwood - https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Trisha's Southern Kitchen on Food Network - https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/trishas-southern-kitchen Dry Needling - https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/16542-dry-needling Frozen Shoulder in Menopause - https://bit.ly/44NNOJi Awake: a Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40Og791 Walkaway Joe - https://open.spotify.com/track/5pzoq7ggrA0GN3SMjy0NT8 She's in Love with a Boy - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF The Song Remembers When - https://open.spotify.com/track/4dS7TYCTGKyhs9ZDt8iPcT The Bluebird Cafe - https://bluebirdcafe.com/ TalkShopLive - https://talkshop.live/channels/trishayearwood Guest's Links: Website - https://www.trishayearwood.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/TrishaYearwood Twitter - https://x.com/TrishaYearwood Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TrishaYearwood Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw0Nn2LTsXGB0rP53Z0ACWQ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrishayearwood Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David's life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention. Key highlights from this conversation include:  How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance Why are many people living  radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don't truly care about How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life How anger and joy are companion emotions The sacredness of everyday practices Thought-provoking Quotes: “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate “It's just very hard not to be cynical about everything and what I found was that I was cynical because I really, really cared. And, because I really, really cared, everything was just so overwhelming, and the easiest way to deal with that was to shut down and be cynical and be snarky. But, I realized that I had to press through and embrace what was behind that cynicism. so I had to really embrace my own earnestness and my own care in the world and concentrate on what I wanted to build rather than what I wanted to tear down.” – David Gate “It's a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/ Guest's Links: Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/ Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we're celebrating 1,000 episodes of Pantsuit Politics with our friend Jen Hatmaker. Jen Hatmaker is a writer, podcaster, speaker, and long-time friend of our show. She's with us today to reflect on our journey to this podcasting milestone and discuss her new memoir, Awake, coming out in September. Whether you've been listening to Pantsuit Politics for 1 episode or 1,000, we're delighted to have you join us for a mom-hug of an episode. Don't forget Reimagining Citizenship, our 30-day meditation series leading up to July 4th starts this week. You can join us here. Visit our website for complete show notes, premium shows, show merchandise, and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Description: Jeff Chu, an award-winning journalist, author, and "sort-of-kind-of farmer," joins Jen on the For the Love podcast to discuss his book, Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand. In the book, Jeff shares stories from his time at “The Farminary”, a twenty-one-acre working farm at Princeton's Theological Seminary, where students explore life's biggest questions while cultivating the earth.  Jeff reflects on his own struggles with faith, identity, and the expectations placed upon him as a gay man raised in a conservative Christian environment. His journey reveals the challenges of cultivating, not just plants, but also a spiritual life that is authentic, evolving, and inclusive​.  In this conversation, Jeff, Jen and Amy discuss:  What Jeff learned at the “Farminary” about creating “good soil,” drawing lessons from the rhythms of growth, decay, and regeneration that define life on the land Finding moments of grace and healing. Challenging traditional interpretations of the biblical Parable of the Sower Exploring faith, not as something static, but as something that evolves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “God's love is that lavish and it's there for you. And it doesn't come with the conditions that you might have. It doesn't require you to do anything more than you've already done. It just requires you to be. God's love is big enough to hold that, and your mess, and your beauty, and your frailty, and anything else you might bring to God.” – Jeff Chu “I see folks trying to figure out how to create belonging, not just for themselves, but also for others, and being willing to ask those tough questions out loud, and being brave enough to say, I don't know, but I wonder. Being bold enough to point out not just the ugly things, but also to name the beautiful and hopeful things. Those are all things that give me hope.” – Jeff Chu #JeffChu #GoodSoil #ForTheLovePodcast #SpiritualJourney Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Community First Village / Mobile Loaves and Fishes - https://mlf.org/community-first/ Genesis Gardens - https://mlf.org/genesis-gardens/ 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4kZZmjN Actually Believing God Loves You Changes Everything: Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/actually-believing-god-loves-you-changes-everything-jeff-chu/ Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4kXozLJ Wholehearted Faith by Rachel Held Evans and Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4iZlOrA Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian's Pilgrimage in Search of God in America by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4bZH91N March: Book One by John Lewis - https://amzn.to/4c6xmXI Travel and Leisure magazine editor-at-large - https://www.travelandleisure.com/author/jeff-chu Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan - https://amzn.to/446LUo5 Padraig O'Tuama, poet - https://www.padraigotuama.com/ Kitchen Hymns by Padraig O'Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccPFdV Maggie Smith, poet - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ In The Shelter: Finding a Home in the World by Padraig O'Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccNNBL Jeff Chu's Good Soil Book Tour - https://byjeffchu.com/tour Guest's Links: Website - https://byjeffchu.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/byjeffchu Twitter - https://x.com/jeffchu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/byjeffchu Substack - https://byjeffchu.com/contact#substack Connect with Jen! Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If we're lucky, most of us will live an abundant life that's filled with a number of significant transitions. How we embrace those inevitable life changes and honor that growth can make a big difference in how we are prepared to meet future challenges. Today, Jen and Amy have the pleasure of sitting down with Melinda French Gates to discuss how, at 60, she is stepping into this next beautiful season of life. By giving a rare glimpse into her interior life, and sharing previously untold stories included in her new memoir, The Next Day: Transitions, Change and Moving Forward, Melinda shares the heart-connecting lessons that we all can apply to the universal moments in our lives – including becoming a parent, the loss of a close friend, the loss of a marriage, knowing the right time to make a career move. In this episode, we discuss: The art of letting go and beginning again and making the most of the time between an ending and a new beginning How growing up in a middle-class Catholic family influenced Melinda's values and worldview What it looks like to loosen the bonds of perfectionism and embrace uncertainty in times of change The new projects, ideas and hopes Melinda has for the future Thought-provoking Quotes: “Surround yourself with great people who are all charging toward the same mission.” – Melinda French Gates “There was something about the rollback of women's rights in the United States that I just never thought we would see in our lifetime. To see that my granddaughters will have fewer rights than I have, just shouldn't be. I felt called to try and do something about that.” – Melinda French Gates “When you lift women up, what I know from all over the world is, they lift families up and they lift societies up. And so they should be able to step into their full power, but there are still barriers in society that hold us back.” – Melinda French Gates “Women don't tell each other enough that we're proud of them so it's good to hear it, no matter who you are.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Melinda Gates: The Power of Lifting Up Women - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-18/melinda-gates-the-power-of-lifting-up-women/ Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM Adele - Easy On Me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY The Gates Foundation “Make Me Care About… with Jen Hatmaker” podcast - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/podcast/make-me-care-about The Next Day: Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FBDoTV The Moment of Lift: How Empowering Women Changes the World by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FIW98c Gates Foundation - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ Pivotal Ventures - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Guest's Links: Website - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melindafrenchgates Twitter - https://x.com/melindagates Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melindagates Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/melindagates TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melindafrenchgates Connect with Jen! Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today's challenging educational landscape. Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU's competency-based education are transforming access to learning. What You'll Learn in This Episode Dr. Johnson's Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education. Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it's a game-changer for adult learners. Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what's being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it. School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued. Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We don't believe in courses just for the sake of courses. Everything at WGU is designed to build skills that translate directly into a career.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Retention is just as critical as recruitment—if we don't take care of our teachers, we will never solve the teacher shortage crisis.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Teachers are literally helping us raise the next generation. Every second of what they do matters.“ - Jen Hatmaker “The future of education must include personalization, technology integration, and real-world experience to prepare students for success.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Learn more about WGU: wgu.edu Guest's Links: Interested in becoming a teacher or continuing your education? WGU offers flexible, affordable degree programs designed for working adults. Website - https://www.wgu.edu/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/westerngovernorsu/ Twitter - https://x.com/wgu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wgu.edu/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/WesternGovernorsUniv TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@wgu Stacey Ludwig Johnson's Website - https://www.wgu.edu/blog/authors/stacey-ludwig-johnson.html Stacey Ludwig Johnson's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacey-ludwig-johnson-0bba1715/ Connect with Jen! Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kacey shares her current reads, listens and catches up on all things going on! Link to Jen Hatmaker's podcast https://open.spotify.com/episode/1cXjRvHKgpS8zkk3Jep2XO?si=FAcE4MMzQHOph6P2hd1qVgShop my prints: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kacey Mae Creative Co.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IG: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/coffeewithkacey⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@coffeewithkacey⁠⁠

Description: Chip Leighton is a guy whose kids describe him as an “unemployed, middle-aged TikTokker“. He has turned the chaos of parenting kids – teens, in particular, into comedy gold. By taking hilarious text from teens and turning them into reels, he keeps the internet in stitches. With his hilarious take on raising teenagers that is so relatable and mirrors so many parents' exact experiences, Chip helps countless moms and dads know that they are not alone in their wild journey. Now he's compiling the best conversations from texts and real-life moments into his new book, What Time Is Noon? Chip and Jen talk about:  The names we are given as parents of teens: Gangster, Bruh, or Jen's favorite….Pimp Ridiculous questions our kids have asked, such as: Did grandma have kids? Am I a notary? Am I on Medicare? What's a stamp?  Savage burns Chip's kids have made about his wardrobe: Our favorite – “that looks like the material they make tents from”. Endless instructions from the teens on how not to be embarrassing in front of their friends Also, Chip tells the story of deciding to leave his corporate job to try his hand at standup (at the urging of one Caroline Rhea). Segments: Bless & Release: The clothes we made our kids wear GenXCellence: Parenting in GenX versus GenZ   *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I'm nostalgic about the feral children going out riding their bikes, building forts, staying out till the streetlights came on. – Amy Hardin It's universal, it's all teens. They don't know how to dress properly for the weather. But they know what we (the parents) are doing wrong. – Jen Hatmaker and Chip Leighton You wouldn't have predicted that I would be funny. Neither of my parents were performers. I wasn't the class clown. I've always had a dry sense of humor and I've appreciated that type of comedy, I've just kept it inside all these years. – Chip Leighton I do believe that everybody has some strengths and interests and talents that aren't necessarily fully leveraged in the typical career or job that they have and these new platforms help bring that out and there are more creative people able to connect with an audience now. – Chip Leighton Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What Time is Noon?: Hilarious Texts, Ridiculous Feedback, and Not-So-Subtle Advice from Teenagers by Chip Leighton - https://amzn.to/4hp7qrH Caroline Rhea - https://carolinerhea.com/ Guest's Links: Chip's website - https://theleightonshow.com/ Chip's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/the_leighton_show/ Chip's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theleightonshow/ Chip's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzdstcflneJKZ_Qi5TQAvQQ Chip's TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@the_leighton_show Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: It seemed like a good idea at the time… a twisty, suspenseful thriller set on a cruise ship. How could this not be the perfect story to build a little buzz and excitement in my community ahead of our upcoming Jen Hatmaker cruise? Did we get more than we bargained for? Ruth Ware's writing has rightfully been compared to that of suspense-queen, Agatha Christie, for featuring everyday female protagonists often white-knuckling it through some treacherous situations in places where they are isolated from any rescue – a glass house in the woods, an excluded ski resort, a remote tropical island, a boutique cruise ship!  Today, Jen sits down with the author of our January 2025 JHBC pick to navigate the many twists and turns of The Woman in Cabin 10 and why so many of our readers are losing sleep this month thanks to her innate skill of setting a heart-pounding scene.   *** Thought-provoking Quotes: People are comparing me to Agatha Christie which is kind of terrifying. The thing that is so brilliant about some of Christie's books that I love the most is the closed room setting: the terrifying storm-wracked island, the luxury train in the middle of the snow storm, or the Dahabiya drifting down the Nile. What she does so brilliantly is that sense of corrupted luxury, that setting that should be really idyllic turns out horrific and becomes more and more claustrophobic and more terrifying. – Ruth Ware I have never been on a cruise but I had a chance to look around a ship as a day passenger and I was so surprised by how much I got right. There was so much that I had guessed at and I turned out to be more correct than I ever could have imagined. – Ruth Ware The way in which you write fear, to me, it feels the truest version of it when it's not screaming, ‘you're so scared, you can't make a sound' or ‘you're so scared, you're frozen – you can't move.' That to me, rings true. – Jen Hatmaker I do try really hard to drop clues and play fair with the reader. I know as a reader, the feeling that I hate most, is what I feel like the writer has cheated me and there was information that I couldn't possibly have known, stuff I couldn't have guessed and that I find deeply irritating as a reader. I try always to feel like I played fair with the reader and they did have a chance of guessing it even if they didn't get there. – Ruth Ware Isn't that why we love reading crime? It's because you can have bad things happen in a fictional world. It doesn't always get tied up in every single respect and yes, there's sadness in terms that someone is usually dead. But there is some kind of restorative justice at the end. – Ruth Ware Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Woman in Cabin 10 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/3DKHCrH In a Dark, Dark Wood by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/400kQ6g Agatha Christie - https://www.agathachristie.com/ Below Deck tv show - https://www.bravotv.com/below-deck The Woman in Suite 11 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/4gKYDk1 The Woman in Cabin 10 on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/the-woman-in-cabin-10-release-date-photos-news We Live Here Now by Sarah Pinborough - https://amzn.to/4h7kkKN Guest's Links: Ruth's website - https://ruthware.com/ Ruth's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthwarewriter/ Ruth's Twitter - https://x.com/RuthWareWriter Ruth's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ruthwarewriter/ Ruth's Threads - https://www.threads.net/@ruthwarewriter Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this delightful episode, Jen Hatmaker sits down with bestselling author Josie Silver, the brilliant mind behind One Day in December. Josie shares her journey from writing ten novels to achieving massive success with this enchanting Christmas love story. Together, Jen and Josie discuss the creative process, the inspiration behind her characters, and the challenges of crafting a love story that spans a decade. Josie opens up about the unexpected ways her personal life influences her writing, how she brings authenticity to her characters, and what it feels like to finally hit her stride after years of writing. Whether you're a die-hard romance fan or simply looking for your next great read, this cozy conversation will inspire and entertain. Thought-provoking Quotes: You write the men you want them to be, not necessarily the men they are. That's part of the magic of romance writing.” – Josie Silver “I think a lot of the little, quiet moments in life—the shorthand between people who truly know each other—are what make stories feel real.” – Josie Silver “Do you want help, or do you want a hug?” – Jen Hatmaker, reflecting on parenting young adults. It was a joy to write this book. Some books come out more easily than others and, this one, I wrote in six weeks. Some books have taken six months, some have taken far longer; whereas this one, every time I sat down, everything just seemed to work. – Josie Silver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: One Day in December: A Novel by Josie Silver - https://amzn.to/3OD2D9A Guest's Links: Josie's books - https://amzn.to/3VlTFl3 Josie's website - https://josiesilver.com/ Josie's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/josiesilverauthor Josie's Twitter - https://x.com/josiesilver Josie's BlueSky - https://bsky.app/profile/josiesilver.bsky.social Josie's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JosieSilverAuthor Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and Amy are beyond thrilled to welcome none other than late-night legend Stephen Colbert and his amazing wife, Evie McGee Colbert, to the show! They're dishing about their brand-new cookbook, Does This Taste Funny?—a project born right in the middle of pandemic life at home. Stephen and Evie share the hilarious backstory of how this all came together, dive into their kitchen quirks (spoiler: they don't always see eye-to-eye in the kitchen), and their mutual love for Gullah cuisine from the heart of South Carolina's Lowcountry. From the joy of cooking together to a classic metal spoon disaster, it's the perfect blend of laughter, food, and a little bit of chaos. On today's show:  Jen and Amy discuss their mixed feelings about high school reunions Jen offers some sage guidance to young girls about how not to accessorize in their senior photos Amy shows off in front of the Colberts with her plate of (gluten-free) Patti McGee's Cheese Biscuits from their cookbook The group tries to unpack what made our children's generation so sensitive about food expiration dates  Stephen shares the story about how he got radicalized by fancy butter  *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “Anytime somebody brings me my own cookbook – which is only a few years old at this point – and it's dirty, filthy, greasy, I am thrilled. It's the best compliment.” – Jen Hatmaker “My mom grew up in the heyday of processed foods. She didn't have a lot of recipes that didn't come from the back of a bottle of chili sauce or a packet of dried soup mix. So that's where I started my culinary journey.” – Stephen Colbert “Those people who have cooking shows are amazing. Shout out to anyone who has to cook and talk in front of a camera.” – Evie Colbert Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Flavors: The Junior League of San Antonio (1978) - https://www.abebooks.com/9780961041601/Flavors-Junior-League-San-Antonio-0961041609/plp The Pioneer Woman Cooks: Recipes from an Accidental Country Girl by Ree Drummond (2009) - https://amzn.to/3Ue0eWd The Colbert Report - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-colbert-report/umc.cmc.3k1kkmfgd34hfnk8mc6p1uj01 "I Hope This Grief Stays With Me" - Andrew Garfield Fights Back Tears And Celebrates His Mom - YouTube - https://youtu.be/_u_TswLQ4ws?si=Ah2cbnW3-5AiyAlF The Daily Show - https://www.cc.com/fan-hub/the-daily-show The Late Show with Stephen Colbert - https://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/ After Midnight - https://www.cbs.com/shows/after-midnight/ Montclair Film - https://montclairfilm.org/ Does This Taste Funny?: Recipes Our Family Loves - https://amzn.to/3YoJeix Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3BNozvM Candied Hot Peppers from Tiny Pizza Kitchen in Brooklyn - https://www.tinypizzakitchen.com/buy-chilies Guest's Links: Stephen's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stephenathome/ Stephen's Twitter - https://x.com/StephenAtHome The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Website - https://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/colbertlateshow/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Twitter - https://x.com/ColbertLateShow The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/colbertlateshow/ The Late Show with Stephen Colbert YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/ColbertLateShow Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this month's Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, we speak with the author of A Woman of Intelligence, Karin Tanabe. In this fascinating interview, we learn that Karin originally set out to write a book about WWII women code breakers, but ended up turning it into an ode to the struggles of women finding themselves during early motherhood and the imminent right they have to a future chosen for themselves. The story follows a woman in the 50's who sets out on a spy adventure, departing wildly from her mundane life, and making difficult choices that come with choosing yourself over society's whims. Jen and Karin personally and candidly reflect on the pressures of motherhood, the erasure of self that can come with parenting full time, and the history that brought us to where we are today. Some topic points include:  The fascinating pivot from Tanabe's original book pitch to the creation of "A Woman of Intelligence" Discussion of rarely-taught aspects of U.S. history, including government-funded childcare during WWII Tanabe's approach to crafting complex characters, including the memorable mother-in-law The careful construction of the novel's open-ended finale Join Jen and Karin for an engaging conversation that will leave you eager to dive into "A Woman of Intelligence" and reflect on how far we've come – and how far we still have to go. * * * Resources & Books Mentioned in This Episode: A Woman of Intelligence by Karin Tanabe - https://bit.ly/47GdbxI The Sunset Crowd by Karin Tanabe - https://www.karintanabe.com/copy-of-the-list A Hundred Suns - https://www.karintanabe.com/a-hundred-suns Karin's Booklist - https://www.karintanabe.com/books-w3tou Elizabeth Bentley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bentley The Lanham Act of 1940 (Government-Subsidized Health Care) - https://bit.ly/3XS2Uen The Red Scare - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare The Cliffs by J. Courtney Sullivan - https://bit.ly/4evbYLG Private Equity: A Memoir by Carrie Sun - https://bit.ly/3Bbgy3w Eyeliner by Zahra Hankir - https://bit.ly/4gDgdqC Guest's Links: Karin's Website: https://www.karintanabe.com/ Karin's Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/karintanabe Karin's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karintanabe Karin's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/authorkarintanabe Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1. Jen describes the shock of losing her 26-year marriage overnight.  2. How, looking back, Jen sees that she knew something was wrong in her relationship well before she “knew” something was wrong – and the moment she reached out to Glennon to share it for the first time.   3. Why Jen's friends told her she was a “human spotlight” and “cleanup crew” in her marriage – and the pain of realizing she was powerful in every role other than wife.   4. How Jen convinced herself that her marriage was enough when in reality she felt like a pot of water slowly building to a boil.  5. The common hell of being lonely inside of marriage – and why we won't be fully honest with ourselves, our partners, or our friends about what we are most afraid of.   About Jen:  Jen Hatmaker is the New York Times bestselling author of For the Love and Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire, along with twelve other books. She hosts the award-winning For the Love podcast, is the delighted curator of the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, and leader of a tightly knit online community where she reaches millions of people each week. Jen is a co-founder of Legacy Collective, a giving organization that grants millions of dollars toward sustainable projects around the world. She is a mom to five kids and lives happily just outside Austin, Texas. To learn more about Jen, visit www.jenhatmaker.com. TW: @JenHatmaker IG: @jenhatmaker To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, step into the studio (and kitchen!) with Jen and Amy as they have an intimate and insightful conversation with the iconic Ina Garten, a true pioneer in the culinary world who has shaped the way we cook at home. As they delve into Ina's groundbreaking career, from the beloved Barefoot Contessa specialty food shop to the 28 seasons of her cherished TV show, you'll discover the heart and humor behind Ina's success. Amidst laughter and heartwarming tales, the conversation takes a deeper turn as Ina opens up about her new memoir, “Be Ready When the Luck Happens,” providing candid insights into her life, including her early days with husband Jeffrey and the triumphs and challenges that have defined her journey.  Topics include:  Being open to unexpected opportunities can lead to fulfilling paths. The importance of maintaining a sense of humor and lightheartedness on the journey to success and connection. Behind the scenes of Ina's relationship with her husband of 56 years, Jeffrey, where she underscores the value of strong support systems and partnerships in achieving balance and joy. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to Ina's world, this episode offers a personal glimpse into the life of a culinary legend who continues to inspire us all. PLUS don't miss Jen and Amy's discussion about foods they ate as kids that they wouldn't dare touch now, and the cooking shows that first caught their attention as young wives and moms. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think that we all need one person and we don't need a lot of people, just need one person who really believes in us. And fortunately for me, it was Jeffrey…He always made me feel like I was smart and I could accomplish anything I wanted to do with no reservations, no judgment. And it doesn't have to be a spouse. It can be a sister. It can be a teacher. It can be a parent. We all need to find that one person who really believes in us. At least that's my experience.” - Ina Garten “I think one of the things that we're always taught when we're young is; what are you going to be when you grow up? And you're not going to be one thing anymore. You're going to do something and it's going to lead to something else, and then it's going to lead to something else. If you decide when you're young what you're going to be and that's it, you're never going to learn anything. I think it's the twists and turns that are really interesting.” - Ina Garten Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book Be My Guest with Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3TvsfIx Be Ready When Luck Happens: A Memoir by Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3ZndFqh Strapless: John Singer Sargent and the Fall of Madame X by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/3XPOo76 Party of the Century: The Fabulous Story of Truman Capote and His Black and White Ball by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/4gvQ6l6 The Oprah Winfrey Show: Reflections on an American Legacy - https://bit.ly/47r1QS1 Tina Turner: My Love Story - https://bit.ly/3Xu76j1 Ina Garten on 60 Minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REyYFeqEKZg An Unmarried Woman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Unmarried_Woman Ina's Interview with John Grisham - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ9jYxkbm6s Guest's Links: Barefoot Contessa (Ina's Website) - https://barefootcontessa.com/ Ina's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/InaGarten Ina's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOlnd-2UlwJuWcnfEKt28yg Ina's Pinterest - https://br.pinterest.com/inaofficial/ Ina's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/inagarten/ Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the height of her worldly and academic success garnering three Harvard degrees, Martha Beck received life altering news, and discovered that maybe she didn't know everything. This set off a lifetime of pursuing ways to soothe her nervous system from anxiety and find freedom in a new purpose. In a world where anxiety seems to be spiraling out of control, Martha offers a revolutionary approach to understanding and befriending anxiety. Drawing from cutting-edge neuroscience and her years of experience coaching people through what she calls the “Change Cycle,” Martha shares: The four phases of the “Change Cycle” Why anxiety is on the rise and how it's affecting us all The unexpected connection between anxiety and creativity How to access your own creative genius You're also not going to want to miss Jen and Amy's discussions before the interview on embracing the mantra “it's never too late” and Jen's incurable attachment to an ancient email address. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Hold it [stability] very lightly. Let it go. Because everything is always moving and changing." - Dr. Martha Beck "If you try to speed yourself through the process of letting go, of grieving your losses, of at least giving a really deep, profound, heartfelt farewell to the life you used to have — if you don't go through that process, nothing good is going to come of it. You're going to end up in lifelong therapy." Dr. Martha Beck “There is a sensation deeper than the mind, more profound than anything we could think, and in some ways, far more powerful than emotion. It is a kind of stillness, a connection. I believe that this is what consciousness is. It behaves this way when it is neither us nor a substance. It is a vibrantly alive stillness that pervades the universe, however many there are. And we are part of it; we are indistinguishable from it.” - Dr. Martha Beck "The first step to getting out of anxiety is to recognize that an anxious brain is not a broken machine--it's a frightened animal." - Dr. Martha Beck “The moment you move into a place of compassion, you use your brain very differently than when you're in an anxiety spiral. This shift frees you to pull your attention away from the anxiety and begin being loving with yourself.” - Dr. Martha Beck "You were born a creative genius. Your mind is so capable of solving the problems that make you anxious, but only if you free that genius. And anxiety keeps it caged." - Dr. Martha Beck Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dr. Becks Monthly O Magazine Column - https://www.oprah.com/spirit/martha-beck/all Bewildered Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan - https://bit.ly/3zkyic2 The Gathering Room Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck - https://bit.ly/3XquFsV The Way of Integrity Finding the Path to Your True Self - https://bit.ly/3ziwm3F Nisargadatta Maharaj - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisargadatta_Maharaj NASA's Creative Genius Study - https://bit.ly/4dSoFAl Wildr App - https://apps.apple.com/my/app/wildr/id1604130204 Guest's Links: Dr. Beck's Website: https://marthabeck.com Dr. Beck's Wayfinder Life Coach Training: https://marthabeck.com/life-coach-training/ Dr. Beck's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themarthabeck/ Dr. Beck's upcoming book: https://marthabeck.com/beyond-anxiety/ Courses & Retreats with Dr. Beck: https://marthabeck.com/courses-training/ Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and New York Times best-selling author, Phaedra Patrick, discuss “The Little Italian Hotel” and how finding a way through heartache can look wildly different from one person to the next.  Phaedra was a self-taught writer who almost gave up on her dream before she had a breakthrough with her runaway hit, “The Curious Charms of Arthur Pepper.” In her darkest moments she always reminds herself, “When I don't feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” With that boldness in mind, she writes novels to make people feel good about themselves and want to connect with others.  Particularly compelling moments between Jen and Phaedra include: Phaedra's incredible story of teaching herself to write and dealing with rejection in the beginning of her career The author's insights on the challenges women face on putting themselves first Phaedra's reasoning on the open ending of the book Why connecting with others in warm and gentle spaces can lead to healing * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When I don't feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” - Phaedra Patrick Resources and Books Mentioned in This Episode: The Little Italian Hotel by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4fJ92fJ The Year of What If by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4drmseX Rise and Shine, Benedict Stone by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3X3ugOr The Curious Charms Of Arthur Pepper by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3WIQWSw Garden Spells by Sarah Addison Allen - https://bit.ly/3YKUsyA The Authenticity Project by Clare Pooley - https://bit.ly/4fC6XT7 The Love of My After Life by Kirsty Greenwood - https://bit.ly/46SffSQ Phaedra's Writing Tips - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/writing-tips Guest's Links: Phaedra's Website - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/ Phaedra's Instagram - http://instagram.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra's Twitter - http://twitter.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra's Facebook - http://facebook.com/phaedrapatrick Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's a brand new season of the show and we are thrilled to have Amy Hardin, Jen's longtime friend, join us on the podcast for a whole new adventure in laughing at ourselves and learning from our incredible guests.  The Lazy Genius herself, Kendra Adachi, joins Jen and Amy today to challenge our culture's obsession with productivity and time management. Kendra offers a revolutionary perspective: the problem isn't you — it's the capitalistic, patriarchal culture we've all been raised in. Kendra unpacks why traditional productivity advice often fails women and shares a more compassionate approach for managing busy lives.  Whether you're drowning in laundry, juggling work and family, or simply craving a kinder way to approach your days, this conversation will leave you feeling seen, encouraged, and equipped with practical strategies. Discover how to: Shift your mindset from pursuing 'greatness' to embracing contentment Take small, sustainable steps instead of attempting drastic overhauls Adapt your systems to fit your unique life and needs Find freedom from rigid to-do lists and unrealistic expectations Don't miss Kendra's sneak peek into her upcoming book 'The Plan' - it just might change your life! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I thought I just had to try harder or give up. And those are not the only two options, everybody. There's a wide middle between ‘try hard' and ‘give up.' And so that's when I pivoted my online writing to this space to the Lazy Genius Ecosystem, as you called it, which is, 'let's be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. And everyone gets to choose what those things are.'" - Kendra Adachi "I think that we forget that the paradigm that we all live under in a Western, capitalistic, patriarchal society is not one that supports what I'm talking about in many ways. And so, it's hard to do. It's very, very hard because the waters that we live in really do not support this kind of idea. So the problem is not you is what I'm saying. The problem is not you." - Kendra Adachi "Your to-do list is not the boss of you. It's a tool." - Kendra Adachi “93% of time management productivity books are written by men.” - Kendra Adachi Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book The Lazy Genius Podcast - https://bit.ly/4drs4WB The Lazy Genius Way - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/way For the Love Podcast ft. Kendra Adachi - https://bit.ly/3WUZdD7 The Plan by Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/theplan For the Love Podcast ft. Emily P. Freeman - https://bit.ly/4cGSRNr Guest's Links Website - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelazygenius/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2548803345149849 Twitter - https://twitter.com/lazykendra Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's an exciting time here at the For the Love Podcast and we are excited to share a brand new season of the show, now featuring Jen's longtime friend, Amy Hardin! Amy's been popping into the show all summer, and we're thrilled to welcome her with an official seat across from Jen for all our upcoming episodes!   And what better way to get to know Amy and Jen together all over again than to bring on an Enneagram personality typing expert to give the nod to their beautiful partnership. Ian Cron, author, podcaster and Enneagram expert weighs in on Jen and Amy's longtime friendship and gives a peek into how he thinks they will mesh as a podcast duo (tip of the hat to any friendships that are a “three” and “six” combo out there!). They also spend a little time talking about the Enneagram types of their partners—highlighting the dynamics in how different types complement (and sometimes clash with) each other.  If you're not familiar with the Enneagram, you're going to be fascinated, and if you are, you'll love hearing Ian's incredible insight into many of the 9 personality types. PLUS, Ian for the very first time on any podcast, talks about his brand new book “The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What I love about Enneagram sixes is; you are practical, loyal, and very witty—in a wry, wonderful way. Your humor comes out as being very self-deprecating. Then sometimes, when you're on autopilot, you default to a lot of questioning and self-doubting, and sometimes you'll be seen as being skeptical or anxious.” - Ian Morgan Cron “What determines the health of a relationship has to do with how much self-awareness each of the two people in it have. So two types of people of any Enneagram type or combination can be great with each other to the degree that they're self-aware and they're doing their own personal work.” - Ian Morgan Cron “I think the friendship exchange between an Enneagram three and a six is really interesting and beautiful. The three's ambition and drive are tempered by the six's caution and loyalty.” - Ian Morgan Cron “People ask me all the time; are there two Enneagram types that really go better together than other types? I'm like--it's all about how self-aware you are. Any two types can do great together to the degree they're doing their work and sharing the journey of self-discovery.” - Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of The Enneagram - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/ For the Love Episode on Enneagram Fours ft. Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3Aa6oPU Jen Hatmaker Book Club Podcast Episode ft. Hillary McBride - https://bit.ly/3AvW4lL For the Love Encore Episode ft. Bessel van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3YzyRcg The Story of You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/46FWbam The Fix It by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3WzFYyK The Road Back to You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/4dejnPf The Last Blockbuster - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8704802/ Find out your Enneagram type here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ Typology with Ian Morgan Cron - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Guest's Links: Ian's Website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian's Twitter - https://twitter.com/ianmorgancron?lang=en Ian's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmorgancron Ian's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron/?hl=en Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, return together to introduce this previous interview with Jennifer Garner that was one of For the Love's top downloaded episodes of all time. Jen and Amy chat about their favorite Jennifer Garner projects and how impressed they are with her activism and philanthropic work. In the interview itself, Jennifer Garner shares how she navigates life as a mom, an entrepreneur, and an actress. So many of us have followed Jen's career through TV & film, but she takes us back to the early days when she fell in love with theater, doing auditions in New York while she slept on the floor of a friend's home who offered a place to lay her head. We also find out that her first job was working with Melissa Gilbert (Laura Ingalls of Little House on the Prairie fame) and how that eventually led to working with J.J. Abrams in Felicity, who then cast her in her breakout role as the star of Alias. The two Jens discuss everything from what it's like to raise kids as they transition from littles to bigs and what eventually drove Jen's pursuits outside of Hollywood to co-found Once Upon a Farm and become involved with Save the Children.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Change is hard. I mean, I have a tendency to, or I did when I was younger, where I leapt into living in New York before I thought about living in New York. And then I leapt into moving to LA, and then had to absorb that, wait a minute, I just left this all. That was a big transition for me, because I didn't realize I had built a community for myself in New York.” - Jennifer Garner     “I hunted down what organization was really doing work in rural America and Save the Children was all over the world. Our whole global goal is to help kids where no one wants to go and where no one's helping them. So we are in Afghanistan, we're always in the middle of the Ebola crisis, we're always in the middle of helping kids as they're leaving Syria. And we're in those refugee camps and we're in disasters, and we are hand in hand with the Red Cross, and just one of the leading organizations helping kids in the whole world. And in the US, the work is so beautiful. And it's almost unknown, because we're in the little tucked away corners.” - Jennifer Garner   “I think food insecurity and poverty in America, it's a little bit invisible, because we want it to be. We choose what we look at. And so, it is, in some ways, easier to look across the globe and see it somewhere else in a country that is so different than ours or with such obvious distinctions. But the food insecurity in America is high, high, high.” - Jen Hatmaker  “You know what I love? I love any community. I just like to be in a community.” - Jennifer Garner   “What is saving my life right now? I mean, I can't imagine it ever being anything other than girlfriends.” - Jennifer Garner  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Once Upon a Farm - https://onceuponafarmorganics.com/pages/jens-farm Save the Children - https://bit.ly/4dnOuHM 13 Going on 30 - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337563/ The Last Thing He Told Me - https://bit.ly/4d9wEbK Love, Simon - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5164432/ Guest's Links: Jennifer's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jennifer.garner/?hl=en Jennifer's Twitter - https://twitter.com/thejengarner?lang=en Jennifer's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JenniferGarner/ Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, are back together to introduce this interview with Kate Bowler that originally aired as a premium channel episode. They examine the ways a “toxic positivity” mindset and a misguided understanding of “blessings” can harm relationships and culture. If you've ever felt your soul drag to the ground after reading a #blessed post on Instagram, there's relief for you here. Kate Bowler shows us a gentler way to look at the concept of blessings, so that someone else's #blessing doesn't feel like our #fail.  In the interview, Jen and Kate talk about:  A brief history of the prosperity gospel in America and the origins of toxic positivity The original definition of “blessing” from the Bible The absurdity of life and how tragedy can feel when watching other people's happiness What the point of praying is Kate tries out being a late night radio DJ and shares a blessing she wrote specifically for our podcast * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Toxic positivity] is the overemphasis, the bright siding of truth to the point where you can't be honest. You can't really say what's going on.” - Kate Bowler “There is frankly almost no relationship between people's lives working out and whether they are fundamentally good and lovable by God among other people, period.” - Kate Bowler  “I was in a waiting room the other day looking over at two people absolutely cracking each other up over an oxygen machine. And I felt the flicker of the tragic comedy of the world, and I was like, ‘Yep, that is a little blessing.'” - Kate Bowler “Such a weird moment when your life is in tatters and then you just see somebody walking their dog. You're like, ‘What are you doing? How is that happening? Why are you laughing?'” - Jen Hatmaker “The more we take what we think we know, and then we just rearrange it a bit, it offers us a chance to see something.” - Kate Bowler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/46ynpPX The Lives We Actually Have, 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4ftQOie Everything Happens for a Reason and Other Lies I've Loved by Kate Bowler -  https://bit.ly/46DRopS For the Love episode with Maggie Smith - https://bit.ly/4fwTfR4 Have a Beautiful Terrible Day by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4cdiS6T Guest's Links: Kate's Website: https://katebowler.com/ Kate's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler  Kate's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/  Kate's Twitter: https://twitter.com/katecbowler  Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Hillary McBride joins Jen for this month's Jen Hatmaker Book Club selection to explore her book “Wisdom of Your Body.” Dr. McBride, a psychologist and researcher, invites us to compassionately reunite with our bodies, recognizing that they are not obstacles but advocates for our well-being. In this conversation, Jen shares personal anecdotes on how this research of Hillary's changed her life, and Hillary shares insights from her latest research. * * *  Resources and Books Mentioned in this Episode: The Wisdom of Your Body by Hillary McBride - https://hillarylmcbride.com/the-wisdom-of-your-body/ For The Love Podcast episode ft. Hillary McBride - https://bit.ly/4c1TikW Dr. Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan APA's Briefing Series on the Role of Psychology in Health Care - https://bit.ly/3Yd9BbA Sacred Knowledge by William A. Richards - https://bit.ly/4cSU59p Even After Everything by Stephanie Duncan Smith - https://bit.ly/4bV40cZ Guest's Links: Hillary's Website - https://hillarylmcbride.com/ Hillary's Twitter - https://twitter.com/hillarylmcbride Hillary's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/hillaryliannamcbride/ Hillary's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hillary-l-mcbride-342a531a Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of our summer series of re-airing the best of “For the Love,” we also have Jen's long time friend, Amy Hardin, joining Jen to introduce this episode that was originally aired on the premium channel. In this new episode, we'll hear about Jen and Amy's summer so far and what constitutes guilty pleasure TV binges. True crime might be considered a guilty pleasure, but if you haven't done a deep dive into the genre, then this will be an eye opening conversation for you. We've got an amazing guest who is here to talk about the true crime podcast phenomenon, and she's one of the folks that really put it on the map — Ashley Flowers, the host of the wildly popular podcast, Crime Junkies.  Ashley Flowers and her co-host Brit have spent years researching, analyzing, and solving cases. And with over 1 billion downloads, it's easy to say they are pretty good at what they do. Jen and Ashley get into how Crime Junkies got started, their thoughts on why the true crime genre is so popular and how Ashely's using the platform to educate as well as entertain. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was looking for something specific, and the way we tell the stories was all based on me as the fan, not coming into a genre and being like, ‘It's popular. What can I do to make it successful?' It was, ‘What would I really care about?' And I think that's been the success of this show, as it comes from such a genuine place.” – Ashley Flowers  “I founded a nonprofit called Season of Justice that's all about funding testing for law enforcement. We pay the labs directly so we can do this advanced testing. Because I found in my work and the more I talk to families, the more I talk to law enforcement, one of the barriers over and over again was just finances. And that's where I was like, ‘I can fix that.'" – Ashley Flowers   “If you're truly invested in the community, there are so many different ways you can get involved and use your own talents to make a real difference and help solve these cases. I'm a storyteller, I'm a business owner, and now I'm solving murders.” – Ashley Flowers  Guest's Links: All Good People Here by Ashley Flowers - ​​https://www.amazon.com/All-Good-People-Here-Novel/dp/0593496477  Ashley's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ashleyflowers/?hl=en  Crime Junkie's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast/?hl=en  Season of Justice - https://seasonofjustice.org  Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's been two years since Roe v. Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court. As the power to rule over women's reproductive rights reverts to the states, we are seeing many move toward vast limitations of reproductive choices, including bans on terminating pregnancies, but also devastating impediments toward the processes that have helped those who are struggling with infertility have a chance to conceive. To open up this conversation and really delve into what this decision means, we have Jen's longtime friend Amy Hardin joining the pod. As women who lived their childbearing years under the protections of Roe v. Wade, Jen and Amy discuss what the aftermath will look for the next generation of women.  Later on the show, we'll feature an interview with Dr. Natalie Crawford, a Reproductive Endocrinology & Infertility Specialist in Austin, TX who really helps us break down all the salient issues. Dr. Crawford sensitively approaches all the repercussions of not having a safe way for a woman to terminate a pregnancy that many of us may not have even considered. Wherever you stand on the issue of abortion, these conversations show the ripple effect this decision has had on women's ability to make health choices for themselves and how it affects women who do wish to conceive and the hurdles they will now face. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Reproductive care doesn't exist in silos. Abortion access is just one part of the triangle of reproductive care. And fertility care is on one end and gynecological care and OB/GYN care is on the other, but they all exist together, for a variety of reasons.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “You could die in pregnancy even though you have zero risk factors. We know that this happens. And so when we start assigning the idea that reproductive choice or ending a pregnancy is morally bad because you're killing a baby or a fetus, what we're really doing is devaluing the life of that mother who's carrying the baby because at any moment it could go a way that could turn lethal.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “We have allowed politics to infiltrate medicine and people are getting cared for differently because of the current political world. That should terrify anybody who knows somebody in their life with a uterus, that really should terrify you.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “Black women have three to four times the chance of dying in childbirth, even when controlled for proper prenatal care or socioeconomic class, meaning even if you are educated and you have access to care, the color of your skin is a contributing factor to you walking out of childbirth alive. That is devastating.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “You're either a fan of reproductive care and you respect the fact that people deserve the integrity to make their choices with their medical professionals and their loved ones, or you don't.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford Guest's Links: Website - https://www.nataliecrawfordmd.com  Fora Fertility - https://www.forafertilityaustin.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nataliecrawfordmd/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/ncrawfordmd  Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're bringing back one of our most popular episodes ever on the pod - featuring “The Body Keeps the Score” author Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. And for a fun NEW take on the episode, Jen Hatmaker has asked one of her best friends, Amy Hardin, to join her to discuss their thoughts on this episode! Listen as Jen and Amy discuss their meet cute and then wade into the episode which delves into the relationship between trauma and the body, relating their personal experiences around this.  Dr. Van Der Kolk is a psychiatrist, author, researcher and author of the book The Body Keeps The Score. He has spent most of his career researching the causes of post traumatic stress, and is continuing to come away with groundbreaking discoveries about the power of our bodies to protect and shield us. Dr. Van Der Kolk brings us to the intersection of embodiment, mental well-being, and neuroscience and examines how we can understand our bodies' response to trauma so we can embrace our healing. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “People think about trauma as that thing that happened a long time ago. But that's not the issue, because that thing is over. It happened last year or 10 years ago, it's not happening today. But the traces that it leaves inside of you, are happening now.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “When you're traumatized, you try to not have all the sensations and feelings, and you turn on music loudly, or you drink or you take drugs, to make those feelings go away. And then to experience your feelings becomes very difficult.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “The most elementary thing is breathing. Our breath is the one thing in our body that happens whether we want it or not. And we can learn to breathe differently. So there's a physiological function that gives us access to some core pieces of ourselves, where you slow down your breath, you focus on breath, you activate your parasympathetic nervous system, and you do become calmer. That's where you start.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk   “You cannot take care of yourself unless you accept yourself for who you are.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “When you're traumatized, one thing becomes another thing. So to open that up, and open up the mind to new possibilities is incredibly important.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Body Keeps The Score by Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3zyCVPk Guest's Links: Dr. Van Der Kolk's Website - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com Dr. Van Der Kolk's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thebodykeepsthescore Dr. Van Der Kolk's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thebodykeepsthescore/ Dr. Van Der Kolk's YouTube - https://bit.ly/3RZpoa8 Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bestselling author, R. Eric Thomas, wrote “Here for It” in 2020 and it continues to reverberate in the hearts and minds of readers because of its timely topics and riveting personal story—making it a perfect “revisit” for our book club community! With humor and vulnerability, Eric shares about his memoir which is equal parts hilarity and heart–and what it took to write about his intersecting identities as a Black, queer, Christian man. Join Jen and Eric as they traverse transforming the ordinary into the profoundly funny and insightful. Book Summary: In his memoir of essays “Here for It,” Eric attempts to define what it means to be an “other” through his experience growing up in two very different worlds — the urban landscape of his parents home in Baltimore and then the wealthy, white suburb where he went to private school. He tries to figure out how to reconcile all of this, not just these two wildly different racial and class spaces, but also his Christian upbringing with his sexuality as a gay man; the exhaustion of code switching; accidentally finding internet fame; covering the 2016 election and all of that aftermath. Ultimately, he is seeking to answer whether the future is worth it when everything seems to be getting worse. He re-envisions what could be by placing himself at the center of his own story and sharing his experiences with us. * * * Guest's Links: R. Eric Thomas's Website - https://rericthomas.com/ R. Eric Thomas's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/oureric/ R. Eric Thomas's Twitter - https://twitter.com/oureric R. Eric Thomas's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/R.Eric.T/ Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Here for It or How to Save Your Soul in America by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3KFKdTV The Preacher's Wife - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Preacher%27s_Wife Congratulations, The Best Is Over by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3RdAY1E Kings of Baltimore by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3PxKvQ4 Dickinson (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8518136/ Better Things (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4370596/ The Moth - https://bit.ly/3Vl3YFb Andre DeShields - https://www.andredeshields.com/ Clue (The 1985 Movie) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clue_(film) Amy Dickinson - https://amydickinson.com/ R. Eric Thomas's Here For It  News Letter - https://letter.rericthomas.com/ Maxine Waters - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxine_Waters  Ann Patchett - http://www.annpatchett.com/ Festival of Homiletics - https://festivalofhomiletics.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen's website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming in hot for our Queer Futures series, we're bringing you an interview previously aired on For The Love's Premium Podcast channel with celebrity Peloton instructor, Cody Rigsby. Cody has gained a devoted following through his engaging and motivational fitness classes on the Peloton platform. He talks about his memoir "XOXO Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual's Guide to Self-Love, Relationships and Tactful Pettiness" in which he opens up about transitioning from professional dance to fitness, his relationship with his mother who struggled with addiction and bipolar disorder, and how he aims to empower others through vulnerability and self-love. With his vibrant personality and inspirational story, Cody has become a celebrity in his own right.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the biggest obstacle to someone starting a fitness journey is feeling intimidated. You don't know what you're doing. You don't look like the people that are at the gym. Your body doesn't know what it's doing. So it's super overwhelming. So if you can take that and push it all to the side and just be like, ‘Okay, [where] in this space can I have fun?'” - Cody Rigsby “No matter how much we love anybody in our life, specifically our parents, dealing with addiction is hard. It's challenging. You don't really know the effects of it when you're a kid until you look back as an adult and be like, ‘Oh wow, that was really messed up.'” - Cody Rigsby “In life, it gets so busy. We're wrapped up in work, we really forget what life used to be or the struggles that we had and the aspirations that we have. Then you sit in the present and you have a moment of gratitude and say to yourself, ‘Wow, I have a lot of the things that I always wanted and I've let go of so many of the things that were holding me back.” - Cody Rigsby Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Cody on Dancing with the Stars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JjDU_DKpeQ One Peloton Community - https://www.onepeloton.com/blog/  XOXO, Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual's Guide to Self-Love, Relationships, and Tactful Pettiness - https://bit.ly/3z0FkSN   Dancing with the Stars ft. Cody Rigsby - https://bit.ly/4cjlCjv  Jess King: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking  Robin Arzón: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking  Glamorous (Netflix TV Series) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81076871  Tiger King (Netflix Documentary) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994 Guest's Links: Cody's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/codyrigsby/ Cody's Peloton Page - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/codyrigsby  Cody's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/codyrigsbyfitness/  Cody's Twitter - https://twitter.com/CodyRigsby  Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker revisits one of the most impactful and downloaded episodes from her "For the Love" podcast's 7-year history. In this powerful encore, she has a candid conversation with acclaimed writer and speaker Jonathan Merritt who publicly comes out as gay for the first time during their interview. Jen and Jonathan reflect on their intertwined journeys - she as an ally leaving the evangelical world, he as a prominent faith voice reckoning with his sexuality. Brace yourself for an emotional, insightful look at the joy and pain of Jonathan's coming out experience. This is one powerhouse episode you won't want to miss again (or for the first time!). * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I had a choice. I could either leave the idea of being loved in that way and loving in that way behind and to get belonging and acceptance, or I could choose to be rejected by the people that I was given as a family and a faith community and I could go off on my own way and try to find love. And that's a tough decision.” – Jonathan Merritt  “I'd grown up hearing this, ‘we hate the sin, we love the sinner.' And yet, everywhere I looked was all this sin-hate. And there was no marking of loving these people.” – Jonathan Merritt “The number one reason that someone changes their views on homosexuality or same-sex marriage is how they answer the question, ‘Do you have a close family member or friend who is gay?'” – Jonathan Merritt “I live in an Episcopal seminary. You feel hundreds of years of prayers that have been prayed here by good people. People who joined the Civil Rights Movement. And people who were marching after the Stonewall Riots. And people who did it because they loved Jesus and not in spite of that fact.” – Jonathan Merritt "American evangelicalism is predicated on the existence of an enemy to fight, and that keeps people coming to church. It's the need to be against, right? And people revel in that, that's the selling point." – Jonathan Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://bit.ly/3BQ2FUl How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://bit.ly/3IdV3gW Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, Gay Marriage & More - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3IhrUS0 Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3siB9Ms Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LXWlyX Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LVOTUV A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3Vvj8J6 Dr. Michael Lindsay - Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin - Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ My Guncle and Me by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.amazon.com/My-Guncle-Me-Jonathan-Merritt/dp/0762485612 Guest's Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/JonathanMerritt Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and award-winning author, Kelly Barnhill, discuss the powerful themes and inspirations behind her genre-defying book "When Women Were Dragons." Sparked by her outrage during the Kavanaugh hearings, Barnhill created a bold metaphor where women transform into dragons to escape societal oppression. In this conversation, she delves into her controversial ending that ultimately represents the multitude of paths to female empowerment. Barnhill also examines the dangerous historical pattern of silencing trauma and marginalized voices, from the 1918 flu to violent racial tensions. Jen and Kelly discuss: “When Women Were Dragons'" exploration of women transforming into dragons as a metaphor for rebelling against oppression and societal constraints. The ending and how it represents there are multiple valid paths for women's empowerment - some transformative, others finding power in conventional roles. Highlights about the historical pattern of silencing traumatic events and oppression of marginalized groups. Portrayals of womanhood as expansive and defying rigid societal definitions of what a woman is or can be. Novel Summary: "When Women Were Dragons" by Kelly Barnhill is a feminist fantasy novel that explores themes of female empowerment, societal repression, and transformation. Set in an alternate 1950s America, the story revolves around a mysterious event known as the "Mass Dragoning of 1955," where a significant number of women across the country inexplicably turn into dragons and fly away, leaving behind their human lives. The protagonist, Alex Green, navigates life in the aftermath of this event. She grows up in a society that tries to suppress and erase the memory of the dragonings, facing the stigma and secrecy surrounding the topic. Alex's journey involves uncovering family secrets, particularly those related to her aunt Marla, who was one of the women who transformed. As Alex learns more about her aunt's life and the circumstances of the dragonings, she begins to understand the broader implications of the event and its connection to women's liberation and agency. * * * Guest's Links: Kelly's Website - https://kellybarnhill.wordpress.com/ Kelly's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/insufferable_blabbermouth/ Kelly's Twitter - https://twitter.com/kellybarnhill Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Girl Who Drank the Moon by Kelly Barnhill - https://bit.ly/3Vd01m3 The Book of Dragons: An Anthology - https://bit.ly/4bO3ldN Kavanaugh Hearing - https://supreme.justia.com/justices/brett-m-kavanaugh/ 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic - https://bit.ly/3ysjfvX The Book of Love: A Novel by Kelly Link - https://bit.ly/4btgQzN Nettle & Bone - https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250824776/nettlebone Connect with Jen! Jen's website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week's top episode from the archives is our number one most listened to episode. In a profoundly moving encore episode, Jen Hatmaker shares the story of interviewing her daughter, Sydney, as Sydney shared her emotional coming out story. This raw conversation follows Sydney as she vulnerably shares her journey of accepting herself as gay while still holding onto her faith–and we're very excited to share this again during Pride Month as part of our Queer Futures series. Jen reintroduces the episode reflecting on what's changed since this conversation and how it's affected her community. Three years later, this episode remains an incredible force, sparking deep discussions around LGBTQ+ issues and Christianity in our community. Jen recalls the immense reach and impact this episode evoked - from mending broken family relationships to causing church leaders to reevaluate their approach. As Jen reflects on Sydney's growth, it's a beautiful reminder that embracing authenticity allows people to flourish. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was just scared, and alone. And I wanted to have it all. I wanted to have my family, and God, and my future. And I didn't think I'd be able to have it all.” -Sydney Hatmaker “It doesn't matter how loving you are, or what emphasis on Scripture you come with. That's not enough if you're not fully accepting them as children of God.” -Sydney Hatmaker “Your allyship can't be about you, and it can't be performative, and it has to be for everybody. And it has to be about love.” -Sydney Hatmaker Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women.  Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world.  Jen and Elise discuss: How women are culturally conditioned and expected to embody "goodness" while men are oriented toward power  How concepts like the "seven deadly sins" have historically been used as a patriarchal "punch card" to police women's behavior Why raising boys to have an emotional inner life nurtures positive identity development The current era of politics that calls for women to challenge the patriarchal system while also having compassionate dialogue to build a new, care-centered world where everyone can flourish * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are trained for goodness and men are trained for power.” - Elise Loehnen “The worst thing for a woman is reputational harm--just the assigning of her badness. Bad mother. Toxic coworker. Toxic boss. Unkind. She says the wrong thing. And it's sort of impossible to defend yourself against that. We have zero tolerance, and it's very scary.” - Elise Loehnen "We need a culture where the men are like, 'I would like to be more like women. I need to be caring. I want to be nurturing and creative. And yes, I can be strong and I can be masculine, but I also need this underdeveloped muscle.'" - Elise Loehnen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D Goop - https://goop.com For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5 Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5 Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh   Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Ross Guest's Links: Elise's Website - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/ Elise's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/eliseloehnen/ Elise's Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/eloehnen Elise's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/EliseLoehnen/ Elise's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-loehnen-b867523/ Pulling the Thread (Elise's Stubstack Blog) - https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/ Pulling the Thread (Elise's Podcast) - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and Isabel Allende discuss her novel, Violeta, and why Allende makes her bold choices in characters, events, and settings. Allende shares her fascinating personal background - born in Peru, living as a refugee, and eventually immigrating to the U.S. where she began her writing career. Allende explains how Violeta's story was inspired by her own mother's life and letters, which Allende has meticulously preserved over decades. The author discusses how Violeta's complicated romantic relationships and experiences of political upheaval mirror Allende's own life. Particularly compelling moments include: Allende's description and showing of the extensive archive of her mother's letters The author's insights on the challenges women writers face, having to work harder than men to achieve respect Allende's personal experiences with family tragedy that informed the novel The author's delight in crafting the "villain" character of Julián, as well as the beloved nanny character based on Allende's own housekeeper Overall, you'll hear a dynamic conversation between Jen and Isabel on life, love, and loss.  Novel Summary: The novel follows the life of Violeta, who is born in 1920 in the aftermath of World War I and the onset of Spanish flu pandemic. The story traces Violeta's tumultuous life as she navigates historic events, including the Great Depression forcing her family into poverty and a relocation to a remote part of their South American homeland. Structured through a series of letters Violeta writes to her grandson, the narrative portrays her resilience, passion, and humor against the backdrop of major 20th century historical events and upheavals, including women's rights struggles. The story arcs through Violeta's experiences of love, heartbreak, and the ebb and flow of wealth, set against the sweeping historical context of an unnamed South American country. * * * Guest's Links: Isabel's Website - https://www.isabelallende.com/en  Isabel's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allendeisabel/  Isabel's Twitter - https://twitter.com/isabellallende Isabel's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/isabelallende/  Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: List of Isabel's Books - https://www.isabelallende.com/en/books  Violeta by Isabel Allende - ​​https://www.isabelallende.com/en/book/violeta  James by Percival Everett - https://www.amazon.com/James-Novel-Percival-Everett/dp/0385550367  Connect with Jen! Jen's website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this special bonus episode, Jen talks with WNBA star, Brittney Griner, who shares her powerful story of resilience after she was wrongfully detained in Russian prisons for nearly a year. Brittney provides a heartbreaking firsthand account of the inhumane conditions she endured, from the lack of legal rights and translators to cruel psychological tactics by guards. She opens up about the pivotal role her faith played in giving her mental strength to survive. Brittney also discusses the ongoing trauma she has faced since returning home, and the renewed sense of motivation to use her voice and platform to advocate for other detainees abroad still seeking freedom.  Jen and Brittney discuss: Griner's harrowing account of being imprisoned in Russia and how she's fighting to get more US prisoners home The pivotal role her faith and reading the Bible played in giving her strength to survive mentally and emotionally. Her candid discussion of the ongoing trauma she's working through since returning to the U.S. Her optimism about the WNBA's rising popularity to force meaningful change in addressing the glaring pay gap with men's basketball. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "My biggest fear was the fear of being forgotten." - Brittney Griner "We feel like we're in control a lot in our everyday lives. But being over there, I was in a place where I needed help. I couldn't control anything. It was out of my hands. I had to rely on something, or I would have gone crazy...I would have Bible study on Sundays and I think that's what got me through, honestly." - Brittney Griner "We need everybody to buy into [the WNBA]. We need to challenge companies to stop just checking a box and saying, 'Oh, we fight for equality. We had a month. We had some shirts.' That's a step. But we need you to put dollars down to make a difference." - Brittney Griner Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode:  Caitlin Clark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Clark “It Gets Better Project” - https://bit.ly/4al2EaZ Coming Home by Brittney Griner - https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Brittney-Griner/dp/0593801342 Guest Link: Website - https://wearebg.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brittneyyevettegriner Twitter - https://twitter.com/brittneygriner Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BrittneyGriner Connect with Jen! Jen's website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval.  From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice. Jen and Bozoma discuss: Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we'll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John "You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John “My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John "The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bozoma's Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/ 2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/ Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig. Guest's Links: Bozoma's Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/ Bozoma's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz Bozoma's Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz Bozoma's Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz Bozoma's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/ Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices