American Christian author (born 1974)
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4 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
4 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
14 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
5 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
6 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
4 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
6 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
5 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
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3 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
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6 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
11 episodes with Jen Hatmaker
What happens when the life you built on all the “right” systems suddenly crumbles? In this episode of The Well Woman Show, Giovanna Rossi sits down with bestselling author, speaker, and podcaster Jen Hatmaker.Jen is the author of fourteen books, including four New York Times bestsellers, and host of the award-winning podcast "For the Love." She's also a speaker, advocate, educator, mother, and a textbook Enneagram 3.But beyond the accolades, Jen is a woman who found herself rebuilding her life after her marriage crumbled—and in that rebuilding, she discovered something profound about the systems we've been told will save us. Her new memoir, "Awake", isn't just a divorce story. It's a surgical examination of patriarchy, religious dogma, and the invisible walls that limit women's lives.What you'll hear in this episode:Jen's journey from pastor's wife and teacher to bestselling author and podcast hostWhy divorce was only part of the story—and what it revealed about larger systemsHow to recognize when shame is showing up and keep it out of the driver's seatListening to our own bodies before burnout forces us toIf you've ever struggled with burnout, shame, or overcoming systems that fail us, this episode will inspire you to rise, rebuild, and reclaim your power._____________________________________________________The Well Woman Show is thankful for support from The Well Woman Academy™ at https://wellwomanlife.com/academy/. Join other smart, high-achieving women to rewrite the rules for how to love, lead, and succeed—so you can live with more joy, ease, and abundance, even when life is tough.-------Also, the Well Woman Show is delighted to partner with the Work and Family Researchers Network and its next conference June 17-20, 2026 in Montreal, Canada. For more information, look to info@wfrn.org._____________________________________________________Resources MentionedAwake: A Memoir by Jen HatmakerAll the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker
Description: In this moving episode, listeners share their own tender and personal stories inspired by Jen's bestselling book, "Awake," which debuted at number three on the New York Times bestseller list. The touching and heartrending voicemails coming in from readers of “Awake” highlight our yearning to build our lives on solid foundations, our propensity to reach for community and friendship, and the shared human experience we feel around suffering and pain. In this deeply emotional episode, listeners recount overcoming stories of adversity and finding hope, often describing "Awake" as a "life raft" during their own challenging times and Jen gets to hear the profound impact that “Awake” is having on readers everywhere. Tune in for an inspiring journey through the voices of those touched by "Awake." Thought-provoking Quotes: “These listener voicemail episodes are so resonant. I love them. Y'all always say the truest, most beautiful, hardest things. Honestly, I'm always grateful for your courage to come on this show and say your thing out loud.” – Jen Hatmaker “I didn't know Jen was about to curl up in my cave and hold me close. I didn't know her story, which I expected to be irrelevant to mine, would tell me that I am okay, normal, and I won't stay this way.” – Anonymous reader/listener “The best teachers don't tell, they show. Although you say this book is not prescriptive and you're not telling us what to do, you've shown us how to live a life and get through hard things with integrity, honesty, discretion, and strength. You've shown us how to take responsibility and ownership of our own shit. Your friends have shown us how to show up fully and unconditionally. Beautiful examples of love and friendship. Your family has shown us how to be there as an unwavering and loving presence to get through their hardest things.” Reader/listener, Denise “My life broke apart too and thankfully I had friendships to fall back on. It wasn't a thing where I was grateful in hindsight. I was able to be grateful for it in the moment, which is not typically how stories unfold.” – Anonymous reader/listener Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3KDAalt 107 Days by Kamala Harris - https://amzn.to/47aZ6tb Poems & Prayers by Matthew McConaughey - https://amzn.to/473gy1Q Fierce, Free and Full of Fire: The Guide to Being Glorious You by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/48jrtXg Emily P. Freeman Podcast episode 374: Tell the Whole Truth with Jen Hatmaker - https://emilypfreeman.com/podcast/374/ For the Love Podcast: A Lantern for Others in Dark Spaces: Jen Hatmaker on Sharing Her Most Tender Story - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/a-lantern-for-others-in-dark-spaces-jen-hatmaker-on-sharing-her-most-tender-story/ 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4mTSzrM Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
If you've ever looked at your business, your brand, even your personal relationships, and thought, “This used to feel right… but now I'm not so sure,” you are not alone, and you are not broken. Jen Hatmaker is no stranger to the hard and holy work of reinvention. She's a bestselling author of 14 books (including four New York Times bestsellers), the host of the award-winning For the Love podcast, and a beloved leader to a community of over 1.6 million. But her newest book, AWAKE, isn't about business strategy. It's about what happens when your identity, your roles, and your life fall apart… and how to rebuild from a more honest, more aligned place. Jen walks us through what she calls a Midlife Renaissance, not a crisis. It's a powerful season of reassessing everything you've been told about womanhood, worth, work, and success… and reimagining a life and business that truly feels like you. If you're an entrepreneur navigating change, if you're pivoting your purpose, or if you're wondering what stays and what goes in this next chapter… click play. Goal Digger Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/goaldiggerpodcast/ Goal Digger Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/goaldiggerpodcast/ Goal Digger Show Notes: https://jennakutcherblog.com/starting-over-in-business-your-terms Thanks to our Goal Digger Sponsors: Sign up for your $1/month Shopify trial period at http://shopify.com/goaldigger. Find a co-host today at http://airbnb.com/host. Shop SKIMS Fits Everybody collection at http://skims.com/goaldigger! Create your sanctuary of comfort with Boll & Branch. Get 20% off your first sheet set plus free shipping at https://www.bollandbranch.com/goaldigger. Check out What Should I Do With My Money? from Morgan Stanley. Listen now at https://mgstnly.lnk.to/bqe8HiAC!GD. Experience the power of a Dell PC with Intel Inside®, backed by Dell's price match guarantee. Shop now at https://www.dell.com/deals. Visit http://www.mercury.com/ to apply online in 10 minutes. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group, Column N.A., and Evolve Bank & Trust; Members FDIC.
Awake by Jen Hatmaker is a powerful and poignant memoir full of hope, loss and paving a new path after the end of her marriage. Jen joins us to talk about healing, home, family, faith, support systems and more with guest host Brenda Allison. This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Brenda Allison and mixed by Harry Liang. New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app. Featured Books (Episode): Awake by Jen Hatmaker All the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker Sandwich by Catherine Newman Go as a River by Shelley Read Wreck by Catherine Newman
Description: Sometimes you read a book that just wrecks you in the best possible way — the kind of story that stays in your bones long after you close the last page. Go As A River is exactly that kind of book. It is a lyrical and haunting coming-of-age novel set amid the rugged beauty of Colorado's Western Slope in the late 1940s through the mid-20th century. Inspired by true events—the disappearance of the small ranching town of Iola beneath the Blue Mesa Reservoir—Shelley Read crafts a story that is both intimately personal and richly symbolic. Shelley is a fifth-generation Coloradan who has spent her life in the Gunnison Valley, and you can feel that connection to the land in every line of this novel. Shelley has spent decades teaching writing and literature, but with this debut (now an international bestseller) she's given us something timeless — a story about love, loss, and the courage to keep moving forward like the river itself. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I deeply value the long journey to becoming ourselves, especially as women, and the complexities of that journey.” – Shelley Read “I think,so often, young people are boxed in and alienated from the very beginning to who their true self is and what their true journey is. And, I thought [as a teacher] that I could save these young people a whole lot of pain going forward and just help them discover who they are now, to follow their most authentic selves.” – Shelley Read “I'm not so sure that I set out to actively reclaim my creativity and my writerly self as much as Victoria Nash, bless her heart, the main character of my novel. She came to me in whatever magical way. I didn't go seeking her. She came and claimed me in some way and she is who turned me back to my writing life because she came to me with such power and such insistence that I had to write her story whether I had time to do it or not. Little by little by little I started accepting this journey of coming back to my writerly self.” – Shelley Read “I think the more generous we can be as writers with process and allowing the story to unfold over time, in the most authentic way, then we really get into the story that we really need to be telling.” – Shelley Read I had to turn the story and the journey in this novel toward hope. I had to. Because ultimately, this deep well of strength and resilience and this ability to bear the seemingly unbearable that all of us carry. Hope is what's going to drive us to rise each time, and to continue to rise.” – Shelley Read Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Go as a River: A Novel by Shelley Read - https://amzn.to/4lIly0Y Film Rights to Shelley Read's Global Bestseller ‘Go as a River' Head to Fifth Season, Mazur Kaplan - https://variety.com/2023/film/news/go-as-a-river-movie-shelley-read-book-1235667430 The River's Daughter by Bridget Crocker - https://amzn.to/3Jy78mE Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/4n3WpPy Guest's Links: Website - https://www.shelleyread.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shelleyread.author Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/shelley.read.50 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This Postmodern Realities episode is a conversation with JOURNAL author Anne Kennedy and is an audio update on the ministry of Jen Hatmaker.For Anne's blog post regarding Jen Hatmaker's new interview with the New York Times and her new book Awake please click here. https://annekennedy.substack.com/p/jen-hatmaker-and-jesus?utm_source=publication-search%E2%81%A9Anne has previously written and been on Postmodern Realities on this and related subjects. Please see the following:Episode 140 The Theological “Mess” in the “Moxie” of Jen HatmakerThe Theological Mess in the Moxie of Jen HatmakerThe Unhindered Leadership of Jen HatmakerAnne also has articles and interviews on related women's ministries.Episode 193 Catching UP with Rachel Hollis, Glennon Doyle & Jen HatmakerEpisode 191 Gods, Gold, and Cheetahs: The Theological Vision of Untamed by Glennon DoyleGods, Gold, and Cheetahs: The Theological Vision of Untamed by Glennon DoyleEpisode 181 But What If It Is Me? The Work and Worldview of Brené BrownBut What If It Is Me? The Work and Worldview of Brené BrownEpisode 209 She Who Has Eyes, Let Her See: A look at Didn't See That Coming by Rachel HollisShe Who Has Eyes, Let Her See: A look at Didn't See That Coming by Rachel HollisEpisode 136 Have You Considered Trying Harder: The Theology of Rachel HollisHave You Considered Trying Harder: The Theology of Rachel HollisEpisode 125 The Theological Legacy of Rachel Held EvansThe Theological Legacy of Rachel Held EvansDon't miss an episode; please subscribe to the Postmodern Realities podcast wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Please help spread the word about Postmodern Realities by giving us a rating and review when you subscribe to the podcast. The more ratings and reviews we have, the more new listeners can discover our content.
On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: car picnics and even more bookshelves! Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: all about narrative POVs - do they matter? do we like one more than the other? The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site). . . . . 1:29 - Our Bookish Moments of the Week 4:04 - Awake by Jen Hatmaker 4:44 - BookPeople 9:45 - Our Current Reads 9:53 - American Royals by Katharine McGee (Kaytee) 13:22 - Red, White, and Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston 13:26 - Currently Reading Patreon to access Popcorn in the Pages 14:03 - Majesty by Katharine McGee 14:53 - A Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping by Sangu Mandanna (Meredith) 18:05 - Legends and Lattes by Travis Baldree 18:06 - The Spellshop by Sara Beth Durst 18:16 - A Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches by Sangu Mandanna 19:24 - House of Frank by Kay Synclaire 19:41 - The House in the Cerulean Sea by T.J. Klune 20:08 - These Truths by Jill Lepore (Kaytee) 20:32 - libro.fm 22:04 - The Small and the Mighty by Sharon McMahon 25:07 - The Hounding by Xenobe Purvis (Meredith) 26:03 - Fabled Bookshop 29:39 - Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver (Kaytee) 32:04 - David Copperfield by Charles Dickens 34:15 - The Carpool Detectives by Chuck Hogan (Meredith) 40:05 - Deep Dive: Narrative POVs 45:38 - Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros 45:43 - A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas 45:59 - A Good Neighborhood by Therese Ann Fowler 46:32 - Stone Blind by Natalie Haynes 48:28 - Sarah's Bookshelves Live 49:55 - Piranesi by Susanna Clarke 52:39 - Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver 52:42 - Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus 52:47 - The Color Purple by Alice Walker 53:05 - We Could Be Rats by Emily Austin 53:09 - Interesting Facts About Space by Emily Austin 53:30 - Yellowface by R.F. Kuang 53:32 - Everyone In My Family has Killed Someone by Benjamin Stevenson 53:52 - Meet Us At The Fountain 53:55 - I wish to press Starling House into everybody's hands. (Kaytee) 54:00 - Starling House by Alix E. Harrow 54:08 - The Novel Neighbor 56:10 - The Once and Future Witches by Alix E. Harrow 56:29 - I wish everyone would try a book flight. (Meredith) Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. September's IPL is brought to us from Words Matter in Pitman, NJ. Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business. All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!
217 Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker joins Nadine to discuss her latest book, Awake, which recounts the shocking loss of her 26-yr marriage. Jen reveals all the things she was ignoring (her finances, her codependent behaviors, even her own knowing) and the steps she took to reclaim her agency. She confesses why this book has cost her more sleep than her 13 other books, what it's like to write the whole truth for a public audience, and the rules she follows when writing about real-life characters. If you've ever looked at your life and wondered, "How did I get here?" this hopeful episode is for you. Ultimately, Jen shows us how she reclaimed not just the life she wanted, but the life she deserves.Learn more about WriteWELL-Nadine's community for Women Writers, which meets every Monday for a writer workout. Try a FREE class on Oct 6About Jen Hatmaker: From the power of her written word across 14 books, including four New York Times best sellers, to speaking on stages, leading her own courses and book club communities, and interviewing countless visionaries on her award-winning For The Love podcast, Jen has an undeniable gift for reaching the hearts and minds of her community.About Nadine:Nadine Kenney Johnstone is an award-winning author, podcast host, and writing coach. After fifteen years as a writing professor, she founded WriteWELL workshops and retreats for women writers. She interviews today's top female authors on her podcast, Heart of the Story. Her infertility memoir, Of This Much I'm Sure, was named book of the year by the Chicago Writer's Association. Her latest book, Come Home to Your Heart, is an essay collection and guided journal. She has been featured in Cosmo, Authority, MindBodyGreen, Natural Awakenings, Chicago Magazine, and more. She writes a regular column about midlife reclamation on Substack.
Jen Hatmaker learned the hard way that being in a relationship does not have to mean sacrificing your best self. In this BONUS episode, Jen shares with Jennie how to leave anger in the past, what every woman needs to know about finances, how to break the cycle of codependency, how to start taking your own "ME" camp and other lessons learned to be a wide AWAKE, healthy and flourishing woman. Follow the "I Choose Me" Podcast on Instagram and TikTok Follow Jennie on Instagram, TikTok, and FacebookSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
In this episode, Jen Hatmaker shares her journey of how to Heal after loss and embrace new beginnings. She opens up about grief, growth, and the importance of community while navigating midlife changes and codependency. Her story is a reminder that you can Heal even in the most disruptive seasons of life. This interview dives deep into what it means to rebuild yourself after loss, from embodying practices like meditation to setting boundaries with time and energy. Whether you're searching for ways to Heal, move forward, or find joy after loss, this episode offers tools and hope for personal growth and transformation. Read the show notes for today's episode at terricole.com/764
The hilarious Jen Hatmaker (New York Times–bestselling author and host of the podcast For the Love) joins me to chat, in part, about her new memoir Awake. We talk about the moment in her life when everything seemingly dissolved (including her marriage of 26 years and her relationship to the church) and the much deeper awakening that she entered from there, when she truly started to rely on herself. For the show notes, head to my Substack.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jen Hatmaker learned the hard way that being in a relationship does not have to mean sacrificing your best self. In this BONUS episode, Jen shares with Jennie how to leave anger in the past, what every woman needs to know about finances, how to break the cycle of codependency, how to start taking your own "ME" camp and other lessons learned to be a wide AWAKE, healthy and flourishing woman. Follow the "I Choose Me" Podcast on Instagram and TikTok Follow Jennie on Instagram, TikTok, and FacebookSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Description: The day has finally arrived—Awake is officially out in the world. In this episode, Jen Hatmaker opens up about a story she's held tightly for years, a story she's finally ready to share. Jen takes us behind the scenes of writing Awake—a memoir told in vivid vignettes and written in real-time, as if each scene was recounted the very day it happened. The book is broken into three parts: The End, The Middle, and The Beginning, tracking Jen's own process of healing and awakening to a number of realizations and truths. Jen walks us down that path of recovery while honoring the many women who held up lanterns along the way and gave her the courage to keep going. She reflects on the process of confronting the deep-rooted systems of patriarchy, purity culture, body shame, and the shaky foundation that once defined her marriage. This book isn't just about the patterns, behaviors, codependency, and attachment wounds that shaped Jen's story—it's also about the joy of stepping into a new beginning. And most of all, it's about you. Because it was your presence, your listening, and your courage that made her brave enough to tell it. Now, it's yours. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I was in the pitch black, dark night of the soul. Everything was so shrouded in grief and loss and fear but I could see all these little lanterns from my community going, ‘Keep going. We're here. We're with you.' I'll never get over that as long as I live.” – Jen Hatmaker “Awake is the lantern I am holding up.for women everywhere who need someone else to tell them, ‘Keep going. You're not alone. I understand your feelings. I understand your fear. I understand your trauma. Maybe also a teeny bit, I understand your future. I understand what you are capable of. What is possible for you. I understand your resiliency. I understand that no matter what you have lost, what has changed, what has shifted, no matter how brokenhearted you are, I still believe some of your best days are ahead of you.'” – Jen Hatmaker “I can trust you, the reader, to do what you need to do with the information. I can trust you to take exactly what you need out of each and every moment, memory, everything, and to alchemize that into your own life, into your own story. I don't have to tell you what to do with it. I don't have to tell you what to think about it. I don't have to tell you how to process it.” – Jen Hatmaker “The fits this book gave me, trying to write in real time! You know, writing an eighth grade memory took me a third of the book to finally get the tense of all my verbs right. I kept writing it in the past tense because it's in the past. The amount of times I had to comb back through and change all the verb tenses to present instead of past was every single paragraph.” – Jen Hatmaker “If I'm gonna tell the story, then let's tell the story. Not like the shinier version of it or the less humiliating version of it or the one that would never indict me, only my partner. There's no integrity in that.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4pduwXb Bumble – https://bumble.com/en-us/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Zibby interviews beloved New York Times bestselling author and host of the For the Love podcast, Jen Hatmaker, about her brutally honest, funny, and revealing new memoir, AWAKE. Jen opens up about the heartbreak of her 26-year marriage ending, the grief and disorientation that followed, and the slow, painful climb back toward wholeness. She and Zibby explore themes of love, loss, faith, resilience, healing, and the profound support of family and friends. Jen also shares why she chose to tell her story through raw, unpolished vignettes and how writing the book became both an act of truth-telling and a tribute to the people who loved her back to life.Purchase on Bookshop: https://bit.ly/469Q8uDShare, rate, & review the podcast, and follow Zibby on Instagram @zibbyowens!JOIN ME! I'm hosting four events on September 19, 25th and 30th in NYC and on October 4th in Greenwich, CT. Get your tickets here! (Music by Morning Moon Music. Sound editing by TexturesSound. To inquire about advertising, please contact allie.gallo@acast.com.) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
By the mid-2010s, Jen Hatmaker had become one of the most important voices in white Evangelical culture. She had multiple best-selling books; she headlined massive women's retreats; she was an influencer before we really even used that term. But then she broke with Evangelical doctrine when it came to LGBTQ people… and everything fell apart. More accurately, they started to fall apart — because the real life implosion wouldn't come until 2020, when she woke up to the sound of her husband, a pastor, sending a voice memo to his mistress. Then things really fell apart. Hatmaker hasn't spoken publicly about the details of her divorce, but after five years, a lot of therapy, and her five children all entered into adulthood — she's ready. Her life exploded. But then she was able to rebuild it using her own designs — not the church's. Today she's on the pod to answer your complex questions about midlife reinvention: how it happens, all the reasons it can happen, and who gets the “privilege” of pursuing it. I really loved this conversation, and if you like rolling around all the ways we can (and sometimes struggle) to change our lives, you will too. Thanks to the sponsors of today's episode!Get deep, restful sleep with 25% off sitewide at BirchLiving.com/CULTURETry Beam's best-selling Dream Powder and get up to 40% off at shopbeam.com/CULTURE, and use code CULTURE at checkoutGet 35% off your entire order at Lolablankets.com by using code CULTURE at checkout.Go to HelloFresh.com/CULTURESTUDY10FM to get 10 free meals, plus a free item in each box for lifeJoin the ranks of paid subscribers and get bonus content, access to the discussion threads, ad-free episodes, and the knowledge that you're supporting an indie pod trying to make its way in the world. If you're already a subscriber-- thank you! Join us in the discussion thread for this episode! Got a question or idea for a future episode? Visit culturestudypod.substack.com To hear more, visit culturestudypod.substack.com
Send us a textLisa and Natassia head to Austin, Texas, for the exciting release of Jen Hatmaker's new book Awake! Join them as they share the experience, laughs, and lessons over a strong cup of coffee. ☕
Erika Kirk and Jen Hatmaker… GUEST Anne Kennedy ...author of “Nailed It: 365 Sarcastic Devotionals for Angry and Worn Out People” ... She blogs everyday at her substack “Demotivations w Anne”... Anne lives in upstate NY where she mothers 6 children and lives with her husband, an Anglican priest. We are not in Control … GUEST Dr Kelly Kapic … Professor of Theological Studies at Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, GA.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Erika Kirk and Jen Hatmaker… GUEST Anne Kennedy ...author of “Nailed It: 365 Sarcastic Devotionals for Angry and Worn Out People” ... She blogs everyday at her substack “Demotivations w Anne”... Anne lives in upstate NY where she mothers 6 children and lives with her husband, an Anglican priest. We are not in Control … GUEST Dr Kelly Kapic … Professor of Theological Studies at Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, GA.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Each of us has something we're pretending not to know—an inner voice that whispers: We're in trouble. Join us for a raw conversation with Jen Hatmaker on: the cost of ignoring the trouble in her 25-year marriage; the night she heard her husband on the phone with his girlfriend; and the freedom she found when she finally embraced the truth. About Jen: Jen Hatmaker is a bestselling author, award-winning podcaster, and fierce advocate for women living in freedom and agency. With 14 books—including four New York Times bestsellers—she reaches millions with her signature mix of humor, vulnerability, and wisdom. Her newest book, AWAKE: A Memoir, is out now, and chronicles her raw, real-time journey through the shocking end of her 26-year marriage and surprising reinvention. She lives in a creaky old farmhouse, loves 90s country, and drinks Almond Joy creamer like it's a personality trait. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow
Today I'm glad to welcome author, podcaster, speaker, advocate, educator, mother, Jen Hatmaker. From the power of her written word across 14 books including four New York Times best sellers, to speaking on stages, leading her own courses and book club communities, and interviewing countless visionaries on her award-winning For The Love podcast, Jen has an undeniable gift for reaching the hearts and minds of her community. It's an honor to host her today to have a conversation about her deeply personal memoir, Awake. Listen in. LINKS + RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE: Purchase Awake by Jen Hatmaker Visit Jen's website Find Jen on Instagram FIND EMILY ELSEWHERE: Watch this episode on YouTube Leave a review on Apple Podcasts Download The Quiet Collection app Join The Soul Minimalist Substack Order a How to Walk into a Room Download the free discussion guide for How to Walk into a Room by visiting this page and clicking the button "Discussion Guide" The transcript for this episode is available on Apple Podcasts.
What happens when the life you were supposed to have… disappears? Jen Hatmaker joins Kate Bowler for a conversation about faith, divorce, and the slow art of healing. After the collapse of her marriage and being pushed out of the evangelical world, Jen had to figure out how to live again—how to co-parent, pay bills, go to therapy, and mother herself after decades of being the “pastor’s wife.” They talk about: What it means to lose a marriage, a career, and a community—at once The weight of being a “good” evangelical woman Codependency, caretaking, and letting your kids have their pain The deep joy of discovering you can rebuild from scratch This is for the people who are learning how to live when the story changes. A conversation about grief, grace, and not doing it alone. Show Notes: Awake by Jen Hatmaker – her latest book on rebuilding a life after loss Support Guides — for divorce, caregiving, and rebuilding from the Everything Happens Project Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day! by Kate Bowler – meditations for the ups, downs, and in-betweens The Preacher’s Wife by Kate Bowler For the Love podcast with Jen Hatmaker Jen Hatmaker's book club – a delightfully honest reading community Come hang out in our favorite little corner of the internet, Kate's Substack. Check out the last time Jen joined Kate on the Everything Happens podcast! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
At the end of a 26-year marriage, exploded by an affair, one can choose to wallow in blame and self-pity or, as Jen Hatmaker has, WAKE UP and live! Jennie and Jen share a triumphant hour of the good, terrifying and really hard work of finding your better, stronger, more vibrant self for a new chapter. A BONUS episode is also coming with practical tips for those just starting out and those starting all over again. SUBSCRIBE now to I CHOOSE ME to never miss a thing. Follow the "I Choose Me" Podcast on Instagram and TikTok Follow Jennie on Instagram, TikTok, and FacebookSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
AudioFile awards Earphones to exceptional audio experiences—it's our version of a starred review, specifically for the audiobook. Host Jo Reed and AudioFile's Laura Rossi discuss three recent Earphones Award-winning audiobooks that delve deeply into the human experience. Laura and Jo discuss the controversial, posthumously published NOTES TO JOHN by Joan Didion, read by Julianne Moore; CRY FOR ME, ARGENTINA: My Life As a Failed Child Star by comedian Tamara Yajia, read by Tamara Yajia; and the highly anticipated memoir by Jen Hatmaker, AWAKE, read by the author. Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website: NOTES TO JOHN: Published by Random House Audio CRY FOR ME, ARGENTINA: Published by Bloomsbury Publishing AWAKE: Published by Simon & Schuster Audio Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from Blackstone Publishing: an independent, award-winning publisher of bestselling books and audiobooks. Find your next great listen at BlackstonePublishing.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
At the end of a 26-year marriage, exploded by an affair, one can choose to wallow in blame and self-pity or, as Jen Hatmaker has, WAKE UP and live! Jennie and Jen share a triumphant hour of the good, terrifying and really hard work of finding your better, stronger, more vibrant self for a new chapter. A BONUS episode is also coming with practical tips for those just starting out and those starting all over again. SUBSCRIBE now to I CHOOSE ME to never miss a thing. Follow the "I Choose Me" Podcast on Instagram and TikTok Follow Jennie on Instagram, TikTok, and FacebookSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Well, unless you've been living under a rock, you're aware that we are now in full-blown football mode. College football is underway and the NFL has kicked off with its new '25-'26 season. Everything should be wonderful in the world of football fans. Except, one of the story lines in the NFL this year is the increasing prominence of male cheerleaders. Ray Hacke, “This is nothing to cheer about,” August 27, 2025.Denny Burk, “Jen Hatmaker and her appeal to deconstruct,” August 26, 2025.
Prosecutors formally changed Tyler Robinson, the suspect in the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and said they intend to seek the death penalty. Authorities also revealed exchanges between Robinson and his roommate.CBS News legal analyst Caroline Polisi breaks down recent developments in major legal cases. The man suspected of killing conservative activist Charlie Kirk has formally been charged. In New York, a judge dropped terrorism charges against Luigi Mangione, who is accused of killing the UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. A judge in California rejected the Menendez brothers' petition for a new trial. A focus of President Trump's visit to London will be on the U.S.-U.K. trade agreement and the billions of dollars of American business investments in British AI, quantum computing and nuclear technology projects. Mr. Trump is the first U.S. president to make a second state visit to Britain, but there is widespread opposition to the visit. CBS News' Ed O'Keefe has more. A committee convened by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., an outspoken vaccine skeptic, meets this week to review potential changes to U.S. vaccine guidelines. CBS News' Cristian Benavides reports on how parents and doctors in Florida are reacting. J.D. Power released its annual rankings for the best airports in North America. Metrics like food, retail, facilities and how easy it is to travel through the airport are all factors. Hollywood legend Robert Redford died Tuesday at his home in Utah at the age of 89. He starred in movies like "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" and "The Way We Were." "CBS Sunday Morning's" Lee Cowan reports. Cardi B confirmed she is expecting a baby with boyfriend and NFL wide receiver Stefon Diggs during an interview with Gayle King on "CBS Mornings." She talks about balancing motherhood, her new album "Am I The Drama?," and how Diggs' support makes her feel safe. Author and podcast host Jen Hatmaker joins "CBS Mornings" to discuss her new memoir "Awake," where she reflects on the end of her 26-year marriage, her evolving faith and the new chapter that followed. Bestselling author Angie Thomas joins "CBS Mornings" to discuss "Nic Blake and the Remarkables: The Book of Anansi," the second novel in her fantasy trilogy that follows a 12-year-old girl navigating courage, magic and discovery. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
October through December sometimes feels like a really fun roller coaster but you don't always feel like you have time to buckle your seatbelt. This episode is going to help you not just survive a busy season but really enjoy it. Helpful Companion Links Order my new book The PLAN or ask your library to consider carrying a copy. Our digital products are going into retirement. Grab them now (at a discount!) before they disappear at the end of the year. I'll be talking with Jen Hatmaker about her new book, Awake, at Festival of Books and Authors in Winston-Salem on Saturday, September 27th. There are tons of sessions to see and authors to meet, and the event is free to the public. Episode #121: How to Build a Fall Dinner Queue Episode #434: 10 Ways I Feel Like Myself Counterweights: An Essential Practice for Holding Hope in a Heavy World by Shannan Martin Sign up for the Latest Lazy Listens email. Grab a copy of my book The Lazy Genius Kitchen or The Lazy Genius Way! (Affiliate links) Download a transcript of this episode. Want to share your Lazy Genius of the Week idea with us? Use this form to tell us about it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
On today's program, Warren Smith has one of his periodic “lightning round” talks with Michael Reneau of The Dispatch. This time, they dig into celebrity Christians, including Jen Hatmaker, Doug Wilson, Chip and Joanna Gaines, and others. They also discuss how Tim Keller is sort of an antidote to that, the “anti-celebrity celebrity. They also discuss recent articles at The Dispatch regarding artificial intelligence, and a whole lot more. We mention a couple of articles in the program. Here are links: Patrick McNamara on AI Bonnie Kristian's article on Private Religion Joseph Polidoro's article on Creative Destruction Before joining The Dispatch, Michael Reneau was the editor of WORLD Magazine. He also served as editor of the award-winning paper The Greenville Sun, based in Greenville, Tennessee. He is married and he and his wife have four children. The producer for today's program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.
Segment 1 • Forgiveness isn't optional—even when repentance isn't perfect. • Broken trust with family means hard, intentional work to rebuild it. • TRANSFORMED SEASON 4 sets the stage with practical application. Segment 2 • OnlyFans is exploding across college campuses—a tragic cultural trend. • Lecrae releases Reconstruction while flirting with deconstruction themes. • AI “truth” is shaky; apostasy and self-made “truths” define deconstruction. Segment 3 • Jimmy preaching on deconstruction at camp—Gen Z's battlefront. • Even Sproul and MacArthur disagreed—unity is bigger than uniformity. • Don't treat church like a product—show up to participate, not consume. Segment 4 • Jen Hatmaker admits she left the church, maybe for good. • Simply showing up to church encourages others more than you think. • Marriage isn't about convenience—it's a God-designed school of character. ___ Thanks for listening! Wretched Radio would not be possible without the financial support of our Gospel Partners. If you would like to support Wretched Radio we would be extremely grateful. VISIT https://fortisinstitute.org/donate/ If you are already a Gospel Partner we couldn't be more thankful for you if we tried!
I get this question a lot, “How do you figure out what makes you feel like yourself? Is it even possible when you're wearing all the hats and pulled in all the directions?” I've always said yes it is. You just have to find the things that make you feel like you. Well, when I started working on this episode and made my list of things, I found a level of nuance I've never really named before. Essentially, there are things that wake you up and other things that fill you up, and that difference might make a difference. Let's get into it! Helpful Companion Links Order my new book The PLAN or ask your library to consider carrying a copy. I'll be talking with Jen Hatmaker about her new book, Awake, at Festival of Books and Authors in Winston-Salem on Saturday, September 27th. There are tons of sessions to see and authors to meet, and the event is free to the public. Bookmarks in Winston-Salem, NC Episode #258: The Seven Kinds of Rest and How to Know Which One You Need Breezy Instrumental Playlist (Spotify) Sign up for our every-other-week podcast recap email called Latest Lazy Listens. Sign up for my once-a-month newsletter, The Latest Lazy Letter. Sign up for The Book List Grab a copy of my book The Lazy Genius Kitchen or The Lazy Genius Way! (Affiliate links) Download a transcript of this episode. Want to share your Lazy Genius of the Week idea with us? Use this form to tell us about it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
https://x.com/jamesrwoodtheo/status/1963295262891262444 https://www.aol.com/why-christian-influencer-no-longer-100533989.html @christianbaxter_yt Belong-Apocalypse // The Fellowship of the Spirit at Midwestuary 2025 https://youtu.be/Gs7Qqrrg6_Y?si=FDu_Q6gkqAeiznFY Paul Anleitner and the Quest for Wholesome Community https://youtu.be/8GaL2mtekn4?si=co0zoa47XAfeF618 https://www.southeastuary.com/ https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give Paul Vander Klay clips channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX0jIcadtoxELSwehCh5QTg https://www.meetup.com/sacramento-estuary/ My Substack https://paulvanderklay.substack.com/ Bridges of meaning https://discord.gg/cfwxQ96Q Estuary Hub Link https://www.estuaryhub.com/ If you want to schedule a one-on-one conversation check here. https://calendly.com/paulvanderklay/one2one There is a video version of this podcast on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/paulvanderklay To listen to this on ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/paul-vanderklays-podcast/id1394314333 If you need the RSS feed for your podcast player https://paulvanderklay.podbean.com/feed/ All Amazon links here are part of the Amazon Affiliate Program. Amazon pays me a small commission at no additional cost to you if you buy through one of the product links here. This is is one (free to you) way to support my videos. https://paypal.me/paulvanderklay Blockchain backup on Lbry https://odysee.com/@paulvanderklay https://www.patreon.com/paulvanderklay Paul's Church Content at Living Stones Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh7bdktIALZ9Nq41oVCvW-A To support Paul's work by supporting his church give here. https://tithe.ly/give?c=2160640 https://www.livingstonescrc.com/give
Description: In this episode, we open the mic to our incredible podcast community, spotlighting the diverse feedback and personal stories from our listeners that have shaped our discussions. Hear firsthand accounts of the impact our guests and their insights have had. Listeners Melinda, Tracy, Joanna, Erin, Kelly, Laura, and Sarah share a wide range of experiences: navigating major life changes like empty-nesting, building new friendships, wrestling with evolving faith, and even becoming an unwilling country music convert. We also dive into some humorous reflections about Travis and TayTay, rest stop kittens, and open mic nights. Join us as we celebrate the voices that make our podcast a vibrant and dynamic space for conversation and connection. Tune in and be part of the dialogue. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Let the top rung of the ladder be your sincere convictions. That's the one to keep sturdy, clear, and visible, and hold that one as tight as you can.” – Jen Hatmaker “Anchor your feet into the ground and stand in this storm. Let it rage. Weather it, weather your own discomfort, weather everybody else's discomfort and whatever loss or change comes along with it, because it will end, and there will come a day when it is not that chaotic and what you will be left with is your integrity and that is enough.” – Jen Hatmaker “Women are capable of getting through the hardest things. Maybe it's a trope because it's true. Maybe the women who are betrayed grieve and recover and rebuild because that's what women do. So maybe it's not such a surprise that we can flourish.” – Amy Hardin “I'm just convinced, this is the time for us to reinvent. Look how awesome we are.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce engagement post - https://www.instagram.com/p/DN02niAXMM-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MTQ4YWwzOGcycWJlcA== [ENCORE] When the Truth Goes Viral: The Cost (and Benefit) of Living Honestly with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/encore-when-the-truth-goes-viral-the-cost-and-benefit-of-living-honestly-with-jonathan-merritt/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3VnMb0k The Interview: Jen Hatmaker's Life Exploded in Middle Age. So She Built a Better One. – https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/23/magazine/jen-hatmaker-interview.html Shiny, Happy People - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/shiny-happy-people/umc.cmc.68y3j8gmhyj647n1j8hgscd3p No Filter, Just The Mirror: Trisha Yearwood Reflects On New Seasons and New Ambitions - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/no-filter-just-the-mirror-trisha-yearwood-reflects-on-new-seasons-and-new-ambitions/ Trisha Yearwood - The Mirror – https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Awake Book Tour with guest moderator Trisha Yearwood - Austin, TX - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bookpeople-presents-jen-hatmaker-awake-tickets-1388635428949?aff=oddtdtcreator I Choose Me: Jennie Garth on Midlife, Reinvention & Owning Your Next Chapter - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/i-choose-me-jennie-garth-on-midlife-reinvention-owning-your-next-chapter/ Gretchen Rubin - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation | The U.S. Surgeon General's Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community, 2023 - https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Top headlines for Wednesday, September 3, 2025In this episode, we explore how the federal government is backing a pro-life ministry in New Jersey, setting the stage for a significant Supreme Court showdown this fall. Meanwhile, in Texas, a contentious bill requiring individuals to use bathrooms aligning with their sex has sparked debate, with the Bible taking a central role in discussions. Lastly, we discuss the concept of deconstruction with rapper Lecrae, who sees it not as a negative process, but as a transformative journey towards a healthier spiritual life. 00:11 Trump DOJ backs Christian ministry headed to Supreme Court01:16 Grace Community Church sued by ex-employees, fined by state02:08 Interim president of embattled Episcopal university resigns03:11 Jen Hatmaker reveals she's left the church and may never go back04:09 Texas House passes bathroom bill after Scripture-infused debate05:01 Open letter to CNN editor on 'conversion therapy'06:02 Lecrae on his reconstruction, healing and boldest album yetSubscribe to this PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle PodcastsOvercastFollow Us on Social Media@ChristianPost on TwitterChristian Post on Facebook@ChristianPostIntl on InstagramSubscribe on YouTubeGet the Edifi AppDownload for iPhoneDownload for AndroidSubscribe to Our NewsletterSubscribe to the Freedom Post, delivered every Monday and ThursdayClick here to get the top headlines delivered to your inbox every morning!Links to the NewsTrump DOJ backs Christian ministry headed to Supreme Court | PoliticsGrace Community Church sued by ex-employees, fined by state | U.S.Interim president of embattled Episcopal university resigns | EducationJen Hatmaker reveals she's left the church and may never go back | U.S.Texas House passes bathroom bill after Scripture-infused debate | PoliticsOpen letter to CNN editor on 'conversion therapy'Lecrae on his reconstruction, healing and boldest album yet | Entertainment
In this empowering conversation, Lesley Logan welcomes back sex educator Dr. Celeste Holbrook to talk about her new book Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture. Together they unpack healing from harmful narratives, navigating seasons of change in your sex life, and discovering the ‘glittery middle,' where you get to define pleasure, intimacy, and authenticity on your own terms.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:How to let your sex life evolve with every stage of life.The five-year journey and setbacks behind Celeste's debut book.The four archetypes for healing and reclaiming sexual agency.Why faking orgasms is a “fawn response” and how to break the cycle.The freedom of defining your own sexual ethic in the “glittery middle”.Episode References/Links:Dr. Celeste Holbrook's Website - www.drcelesteholbrook.comDr. Celeste Holbrook's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drcelesteholbrookDr. Celeste Holbrook on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrCelesteHolbrookMissionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture by Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://a.co/d/3UimUKxA Well-Trained Wife by Tia Levings - https://a.co/d/ibRaesYFourth Wing Series by Rebecca Yarros - https://a.co/d/7Qhgk2REp. 202: Jake Kelfer - https://beitpod.com/jakekelferEp. 265: Daniella Mestyanek Young - https://beitpod.com/daniellayoungGuest Bio:Dr. Celeste Holbrook is a sex educator, speaker, and small-town Texas horse girl who's on a mission to make conversations about sex less awkward and way more empowering. With a Ph.D. in Health Education from Texas Woman's University and a thriving virtual practice, Celeste helps people create lives filled with pleasure, connection, and confidence—starting in the bedroom. After years of struggling with pain and shame around sex, she set out to find answers no one else could give her—and ended up becoming the expert she needed. Today, she guides women toward pleasurable sex by helping them understand their bodies, claim their worth, and ask for what they want without apology. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Celeste Holbrook 0:00 Expecting your sex life to look the same when you are 20 and 30 and 50 and 70 is not helpful for you, and so allowing it to mature as you mature is the most helpful thing that you can do for yourself, I think, when when it comes to your sex life.Lesley Logan 0:19 Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. Lesley Logan 1:02 Hey, Be It babe, okay, this might be the first guest that is coming on for a third appearance. I think she won. I could be wrong, but I think she won. Dr. Celeste Holbrook is back. She's back. We're gonna talk about a couple of things. We're gonna talk about sex, we're (inaudible) we're gonna talk about her book. We're gonna talk about the journey that one goes on to get their work out into this world. And so even if you are like, I don't want to talk about the sex part, like, well, we should talk about the sex part. That's actually what we should do. But I want you to hear this, because I think it's so easy to hear people on a podcast go, oh, it's so easy for them because they got on a podcast, like, it's so easy, and you don't hear all the doors that get shut all the time. And I also am excited for you to hear like there are people in this world who just want to help each other out, and I think we need evidence of that. And I'm super, super excited that I get to be a cheerleader for amazing humans in this world like that. When I think about my, like, genius zone or something like that. Like, sometimes I think it's that I just get to cheer on people who are doing hard things and go, I see you, and you're doing great. And I can't wait. I can't wait. So guys, I'm gonna stop this, because we're gonna get right into we get right into it. And if you have this is the first time you're hearing about Dr. Celeste Holbrook, I really encourage you to go back to the first two episodes we did together. Go do the oldest one, then the second one, because I think you'll get a full picture of everything. We talked about a lot of good stuff. So she's gonna change your life. All right, here she is. Lesley Logan 2:31 All right, all right. So you guys, we're just gonna get right into this episode. Dr. Celeste Holbrook is back. You guys, third time won't be the last time. I somehow have to have her on annually. I think, Celeste, can you tell everyone why you're back. Let's just get in. Let's just start there. Celeste Holbrook 2:46 Okay, so I'm so excited, I can't even, like, contain myself. So I'm back because I have a book out, and I have a book really, truly because of Lesley Logan, because I have tried to publish this book for so long with traditional publishing, and I just got closed door after closed door after closed door for a lot of different reasons, which maybe we do and don't go into, I don't know, but Lesley reached out to me and was like, Celeste, I have this company. They do professional publishing. They're really great, and I just latched onto it, and I did every single thing that they suggested, and it was such a beautiful experience. So the whole point of this is I have a book, and I have a book because of you, and I want to aggressively love you today for encouraging me to do this.Lesley Logan 3:38 I am taking all that love also like this podcast, is why you have it, because I met that guy, because I interviewed him. And I have to, like, I'm not even I'll have to go back to the archives to figure out how I got this person, but I interviewed him, and I'm like, I really like this person. Like, I think he's great. Like, I've written a book, and I would have loved his help. Then, because I met him and had him on the pod, we had three of our clients use him, so I got to see from different perspectives how it was so when, and here's the thing, you were always on my feed, like, the algorithm would always, like, send you, and I like, just love all your stuff. And then it, like, kind of stopped, because I don't know that's how the algorithm works. And I happened to look at your stories, it was your stories, I'm pretty sure, and you were sharing this thing. And I'm not normally someone who's like, let me go in on the six minutes of a story. But I was like, I'm procrastinating. I'm in and so I was like, wow, what perfect timing this was, because I could have easily missed that whole section. And so I just want to, I'm just so grateful for divine like, I think that, like, there's divine appointments and divine interventions in a non-church way, guys, but we're meant to be in each other's lives and this book. Okay, so I guess, in case people don't know who you are, maybe we should do a quick like, who are you? Because we have new listeners, right? Hi, new listeners. You're going to want to go back to the other two. We're going to link them in the show notes. But can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at? Celeste Holbrook 4:57 Yes, absolutely. So my name is Dr. Celeste Holbrook, I am a sex educator, and I have a PhD in health behaviors with a postgraduate emphasis in sexual behaviors. So I help people, a lot of women and lots of couples, figure out how to make sex better, whether that is they are experiencing pain or they're experiencing shame from growing up in like, ultra religious household, or they just need, like, some help through menopause or through after having a baby or things like that. So I am your very practical sexual health help. That's what I do. Lesley Logan 5:38 I love it the practical because, you know, like, I will say, having lived in L.A. and going to different sex shops, you don't look like the person who works the sex shop. Celeste Holbrook 5:48 No, no. Lesley Logan 5:50 Not to like, like to stereotype. But there's a, there would be a type that, like, works at the sex shop, and it's not you.Celeste Holbrook 5:56 Yeah, no, it's not me. And I just want to be super accessible, because not everybody wants to, like, swing from the chandeliers all the time. You know, a lot of people are out there just struggling to find the time to connect. Like, I cannot tell you how many times I have had a conversation about what to do with the dog in your bedroom when you want to have sex so the dog's not looking over at you or jumping on the bed, or, like, these are the practical applications that we are talking about in sex education in my consult sessions.Lesley Logan 6:27 Yeah, well, and because, because I think everyone's just so overwhelmed, like I saw something, and someone's stories, and they're like, went to their friend, their niece's like, soccer game, and she's like, looking around just like, no wonder no one's having sex. Like everybody is at the soccer game and they're exhausted, and then get the soccer game they're fighting about to do or you forgot the thing. Like, no, no answer. But nobody wants to have sex after this. Celeste Holbrook 6:53 No, no. Why would you want to have sex after that? Exactly right. That's exactly right, yep. Lesley Logan 6:59 So, so I want to touch on, like, there's a lot of different chapters, and maybe this is something that your book covers, but like, there's, you know, I think when we're younger and like, it feels like it's easier to do things, maybe, and then you get older, and like, there's more responsibilities and there's more stuff to think about. And like, it becomes something that goes away, and then your hormones change. So, in your book, do you cover, like, the journeys that were all going on, or is it more specifically for people from the purity culture, like, what? What were you excited to write about?Celeste Holbrook 7:30 Sure. So the book is called, I have the manuscript and printed out right here. It's called Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture. So I do take the approach of, like you growing up in a purity culture background, in, like, a high demand religion background, evangelical culture, things like that. But the book is in four parts. So like a four-part guide to basically healing, and you can apply these steps to any issue you are having in sex. So, yes, I do talk quite a bit about the effects of purity culture and how to overcome those effects. But it can, you can apply it to, you know, the trauma you had from a sexual assault. You can apply it to just the doldrums of being married to the same old penis for like, 20 years or whatever, you know, like you can apply these steps to anybody. So basically, there's four steps, and I have made them into archetypal women. So your first step is your analyst. She's like, the nerd she's looking at, like, okay, what are we carrying around? What does your backpack look like that you're carrying around? Is it full of shame? Is it full of neglect? Is it full of fear? Like she's the analyst. Your second archetypal woman is your assassin. She's she is taking what the analyst has found, and she is just like, slicing through it, right? She's your assassin. She's your inner assasin. She's your deconstruction, basically. Your third archetypal woman is your healer. So after you've done the work of understanding what's in your backpack, slicing out what needs to go, then your healer starts helping you regenerate your ideas about sex through a gentle reeducation. So we're relearning about some things that maybe we have always thought one way about. Maybe we're relearning about the idea of virginity. We're relearning the I about masturbation. We're relearning about what great sex is, right? The healer is our gentle reeducation, and then our fourth archetypal women woman is our explorer, and she's like, gonna try some new things. She's gonna go to the sex toy store, she's going to touch herself in a new way, and maybe, if that's too much, maybe she's gonna try sex with the lights on, right. And so these are the four women. They represent four steps, and within each step there are some really practical things that you can do to help move you to the next step. So you can apply this to any issue you're having in sex, and get to the other side where you're trying, you're you're now exploring, you're trying new things.Lesley Logan 10:12 I that's a way. I mean, well, like an archetype. I like that. And I've, you've been on my mind a lot lately, because society is quite interesting right now, like the trad wife situation. I'm like, that looks really beautiful. Like, I would love, like, I have white countertops. I'd love them to clean all the time. I'm certainly not capable of doing it. But I'm like, I don't know that. I think they're doing a really good job marketing a beautiful esthetic without realizing, like, all the stuff that comes with that, you know, like, all the religious stuff that comes with that, and how that can harm how we feel about our bodies. And I, I like, was raised in purity culture, and I didn't think it affected me. I'm like, I'm good. But actually, no, actually, I remember, like, I remember, oh, it does, because you're like, you think that you're like, oh, I'm on that. I'm that doesn't affect that like you, you start to realize, even if you weren't raised in church, just the way that public school systems have appropriated some of the modesty rules, like what you're told, what you can wear to school and and how thick this the tank top strap can be, and you can't be disruptive, even though the boys' pants are halfway down their legs, and I'm looking at underwear all the time. You know, I think that even for people who weren't raised where they're told, like, your father has you until you're given away to someone else, there is some level where all of us were affected by like, don't be a distraction. Don't, make sure you don't wear that so you don't look like a certain like you're not attracting bad people, you know, that kind of a thing.Celeste Holbrook 11:44 Yeah, I totally agree, Lesley. I think that there's very few people in the United States that have a great, comprehensive, inclusive sex education. I think very few of us. I think this is changing, and hopefully with, you know, recycle breaking next and next generations, but American society in general wants to put sex on either end of a spectrum. We want to either like, don't think about it. Don't talk about it. This is not for you until you are reaching a certain age or marriage or whatever, and then on the other side is like, why aren't you liberated enough to have all to do all these things you know, like, so there's these two, like, ends of the spectrum, and all of us really live in the middle. Yeah, none of us is really on either side at all, but we but it like breaks America's brain to try and think about, like, living outside of one of those two spectrums. So I talk about in the book about the non, about the non-binary. We are not binary people. As far as what we want to do in our sex life, and figuring out, how do you live in the middle area, which we often call gray, but I call glitter. Yes, it's the most fabulous place to live is in the middle, in this glittery middle, where you get to define your own sex ethic based on your value system, on your intuition, on your sex education, and you get to decide what works best for you. And maybe that is boundaries around when you have sex awesome, as long as it's your choice that's amazing. And maybe that is opening your relationship up and trying swinging or whatever it is that's awesome as long as it's your decision and not one manipulated by society or cultural values or religious values.Lesley Logan 13:27 Yeah, I think that's, I think I like to think about that even this thing, it's, you're right, it's America, it's people like, I'm in Pilates industry. And I said something the other day where I was like, well, you can say that, but it doesn't like, there's also the idea that we could prepare people for an exercise, right? And this person, like, went off on me, and I was like, so you need to understand that what you're mad about me is what you're doing here. Second, Pilates is not black or white. It's not this or that. It's a lot of gray. It's a lot of glitter, like glitter. It's like, because our bodies are different and where we are in our practice, where we are in our life, maybe what season we're in, maybe you're in a season of young children, it's going to be very different what you're wanting and ready for, and have the capacity to take on versus they're teenagers and out of the house and really don't care where you are versus you don't have kids at all. Like, there's all these different seasons. And I think we are like, oh, this is how I've always liked it, so this is how I have to keep liking it. Celeste Holbrook 14:25 Yes, yes, that's so wise, Lesley, that's so wise. I think there are a lot of and we talked about this in our last on our last podcast together, a lot of the similarities between what happens in sex and what happens in like a Pilates, a workout space or Pilates space, as far as how we view our bodies and what we feel is like, right, or what we feel is appropriate, I guess, for our bodies like I should be wanting this, because that's what I did when I was 27 or I should be looking like this, because that's what I looked like when I was whatever, 30 or whatever. And I think there's lots of room to allow ourselves compassion to grow as we grow in our sex life, in our workouts and whatever, expecting your sex life to look the same when you are 20 and 30 and 50 and 70 is not helpful for you, and so allowing it to mature as you mature is the most helpful thing that you can do for yourself, I think, when, when it comes to your sex life. Lesley Logan 15:28 Yeah, we'll keep talking about this, it'll come up. But I do, I do want to go back to like, the journey of this book, because this book has been in you for a really long time. And I think whether or not people want to write a book, you can insert goal, whatever your goal is, because you we will all in trying to get something out into the world or get something that we desire done, hit roadblocks. So you hit some roadblocks. Can we talk about, how many years of roadblocks? Can we talk about what you like, what kind of roadblocks you were hitting and, like, how did you keep going? Because quite honestly, I'm surprised you even told the story, you know what I mean, like, I'm surprised you didn't go, okay, well, that's that, the door, the door has been slammed shut.Celeste Holbrook 16:12 Yeah, yeah. And I really appreciate you asking this, because I know sex is really fun to talk about, but this is, like, my personal, like, lifelong dream is to have a book, and it feels really, I feel really seen when you ask about the process of it, and when I think about the be it, you know, be it till you see it, bold, executable. I think I'm getting this right, intrinsic, targeted, so I think about my word for this year was bold. So that was like, my like, I gotta be more bold. I want to say what I want to say. I don't want to be making myself smaller anymore. So the story behind the book, I have always thought about writing a book. I myself am a slow reader. I don't read very fast, and I for a long, long time I thought I was dumb because I don't read very fast, which is silly when I think about it now, but all growing up, I was slower than all of my friends reading. It was frustrating to read. And I've just, I like, I was still a good student. I still did all of the things that I needed to do, but I just, I just took time. I just took more time to write, to read all of those things, and I think in part, that's what made me get a PhD, because I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn't dumb. Turns out, I'm not dumb. I just am. I need to go at my own pace. And so one of the things that you talk about a lot on the podcast is like, how do you prioritize yourself? I prioritize myself by allowing myself to go at my own pace, like I can read as slow as I need to read, I can answer emails as slow as I need to answer emails. It's frustrating to me and other people, but at the end of the day, like it, it's honestly who I am. I'm just considerate and slow and thoughtful, and I've learned to like that about myself instead of hate that about myself. So the idea of writing a book was really, like tantalizing to me, but I had a lot of insecurities about my ability to actually do it. I'd written a dissertation, which is I, in my opinion, harder because it's boring. Lesley Logan 18:19 Yeah, yeah, no, that's one of the reasons why I, like, stopped going to school. I was like, I can't write another boring paper.Celeste Holbrook 18:25 Oh, my God. Like, who's reading? Like, my mom didn't even read it. She's like, oh, congratulations. It's like, collecting dust, right? So I had done that, and so I thought, like, well, if I'd written a dissertation, it just take you just take a chunk at a time. I can surely write a book. So in 2000 and let's see 2016, Nate and I was like, Nate, I really want to write a book. I'm going to go to a writer's conference. So he's like, great, let's go. I was like, found one in Hawaii. He's like, even better, let's go.Lesley Logan 18:55 I love, I love when a goal and a tax write off can be in a place you want to go. Celeste Holbrook 19:01 That's right, that's exactly right. We ended up getting a tent. There's like, these glamping tents on Maui that you can get, and it's just, like, really fun. It's like, on the beach, but you still have, like, sort of a bathroom, you know. But so we're, like, we needed to do it on cheap, because we were kind of broke, like, got these glamping tents, and I went to these writers conference during the day, and Nate did whatever during the day was at this writing conference, and it was through Hay House, and there was a contest. So if you went to the writers conference and you wrote a proposal, you could enter it in, and they were going to pick three writers to to give a book deal to, I would, and this is me being so sure of myself. Like, yes, I've spent a lot of time feeling insecure that about my reading and writing. But for the most part, my whole life, I have been, like, with no good reason, confident. Like, I'm just like, I don't know, confident.Lesley Logan 19:53 Yeah. I mean, that's cool. That's a great that's so many people don't inherently have that. I. And like to kind of have that and then use it is a wonderful, it's a wonderful thing. Celeste Holbrook 20:06 Yeah, I just, I just was like, no, I'm gonna get this, you know, I'm gonna write this proposal. People are gonna love it. I'm gonna get this competition. Anyway, long story short, did not win any (inaudible). Lesley Logan 20:16 Oh, I thought this was going towards you won. Oh, my God, she won. It. (inaudible) second look. I automatically just assumed you're gonna slay. So I'm just like, she won.Celeste Holbrook 20:32 This is about closed doors, Lesley. Lesley Logan 20:34 Okay, that's true. That's true. Celeste Holbrook 20:36 Yes. So I did not win. I was for sure I was gonna win, did not win, not even, like, a hello, right? So I was like, oh, maybe I need to work a little harder. So I had this whole proposal. My book was like, looking back, I'm like, I'm so glad that I didn't win. My book was called Sexual Wealth. Lesley Logan 20:54 Oh, yeah, that's that's not you.Celeste Holbrook 20:57 It's not me. I was like, it was like, sex through finance, bro language or something. And I was just like, this is a terrible idea, but the spark was there, like, I really wanted to write a book. So that was 2016 I kind of held onto it, thought about it, kind of put it in a drawer for a while. In 2019 I got on a fairly large podcast with Jen Hatmaker, so she's an author, and she does a lot of work in, like the ex-evangelical space, or had started down that road. So I got on this podcast through just like pitching. I got on this podcast. It's pretty big, big podcast. And not long after that, a person from HarperCollins, like a division of Harper Collins, reached out to me and said, hey, have you ever considered writing a book? So the publisher reached out to me, which is very unusual. Lesley Logan 21:47 That is cool, though. Yes. Celeste Holbrook 21:49 Yeah, yeah, very unusual. Usually, you are pitching to publishers. So they heard me on the podcast, and they were like, hey, you know, we're interested in you submitting a proposal. I'm like, I'm freaking out. Like, this is so exciting, right? I realize I probably need representation, so I get a literary agent. I kind of shop around and get a literary agent. She's amazing, Rochelle, and I end up pitching my proposal. I worked it out, you know, I update it from sexual wealth to something else. I update it, I pitch it, and they're pretty slow. The publishing industry is so slow, you know this, you know this, so slow. Lesley Logan 22:24 I have watched too many of my friends write books. I'm so great. I'm proud of all of them. But also the ones that have gone traditional publishing, it is slow, like molasses moves faster, you guys. That's, you know, like, just don't bet on don't hold your breath.Celeste Holbrook 22:40 Oh my gosh, it's the slowest process of all time. And so I was like, okay, I, you know, they reached out to me. So I'm here in my very confident space, like, oh no, they're gonna laugh. Yeah, they're gonna choose. They reached out to me. Why wouldn't they choose me? At this point, I have like, 1500 followers. I have, like, I have no platform, right? I still have a very small platform, but a bunch of really engaged, lovely humans. So I'm, I'm fairly sure they're going to choose me. Eventually, months and months and months later, they get back to me and they're like, yes, we want it is literally like, I don't know, six months later, they're like, we want to offer you a contract, and we want to go under contract, just small. It's a $20,000 contract. They're gonna pay me 10,000 upfront, and then 10,000 the book publishes. I was like, great, I have to pay out my agent too. So I'm I'm coming home with like, $8,500. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Just to get one dime to like (inaudible).Lesley Logan 23:36 I mean that you got anything, because it's not, it's not always normal that even a first time writer gets anything until the book sells. So, yeah.Celeste Holbrook 23:44 Yes. So I was thrilled. I was thrilled. So I started writing my little heart out. They don't actually give me anything, a contract or anything, until my my my first draft is due. So I turned in my first draft and then they signed me. So I write the whole book without a contract. So submit the first draft. This is like March of 2020, so keep that in, put to context. Things that are. Lesley Logan 24:08 Things are things are going on. Celeste Holbrook 24:10 Things are going on. What's happening? So I get my first round of edits back. I'm still super excited. And then in July, my agent calls me, and she's like, I hate to have this conversation with you, but your book has been orphaned. Your editor left the company, and nobody else wants to pick it up. Lesley Logan 24:32 No, no. Celeste Holbrook 24:35 Yeah. So this is like, in the big scheme of things, like, it was the way it needed to work out, because they were already giving me feedback. It was the (inaudible) the imprint. And I'm not trying to slander any publishing industry, but this is just what happened to me, right? I was getting feedback of, like, oh, I don't know if you should, like, go that hard. Or I don't know if you should. You might alienate readers. If you talk about religion in this way, or, you know, this is you're gonna lose your Catholic audience. I'm like, I'm not trying to make the Catholics happy. I'm sorry. Lesley Logan 25:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I interviewed, I don't know if it was in my interview, but when I was talking with Daniella Mestyanek Young who wrote Uncultured, she was only allowed to talk about three sexual like, misconduct, things that happened to her, and not even the worst ones. They actually, like, got rid, yes, yeah, they were like, and you can only talk like they she had to. And she's been very vocal about it. She's like, because she was talking about God and all these things and like, like, yeah, you can't really talk about that. And then she was like, you know, saying that she got raped in military. And they're like, so we don't like, maybe we just do only one of those, like, very and so, and she was with a publisher, and she got published, but she it's a watered down version of her story, because apparently readers wouldn't be able to handle the true thing. And it's like, you know, like, we're, how are we supposed to change the world? We don't know what's going on. So anyways, yeah. Celeste Holbrook 26:02 Yeah, I and I heard, I heard that kind of from different places, like, oh yeah. I had to, like, say this instead of that or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, that's a little bit happening to me. And I had written it with the understanding, like, this is for a still Christian audience. I understood this, it was with a Christian publisher. So I'm like, that's fine. Like, as a sex educator, you have to be able to be fluid enough to write to the audience that's in front of you. Like, when I go speak, sometimes I'm in front of really conservative audiences, and I adapt my language. That's fine. Like, that's okay to do. I'm still, I still feel helpful. I still feel like I'm pushing the envelope, but in a way that feels the most accessible for the audience in front of me. So I'm okay adjusting, but also like I didn't, I didn't want to water it down so much that I felt like it wasn't me. Lesley Logan 26:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Celeste Holbrook 26:53 So anyway, lost my contract in July 1st of 2020, which was and that whole thing, the whole next two years was really difficult. My husband is an emergency medicine physician and it was just a real hard time in the family, family. Lesley Logan 27:09 Yeah, no, lots, lots going on, lots of stress, lots of worry, lots. Yeah, you're afraid, yeah, you know. So like, you know. So we live where we live, and not everyone believe we're going through certain things. So that's even more stressful. Yeah. Oh, my God, that's a lot. The book, the book hit a wall.Celeste Holbrook 27:26 It hit it hit a wall, and probably had to find time. But I was, I was really, just really sad. Rochelle, my agent, was like, okay, we're just gonna, like, pick it back up. We have this proposal, we have a book written. It's, it'll be easier for another publisher to pick us up. And so we start, like, pitching to these other publishing companies. She has all these connections, you know, she's pitching, pitching, pitching, nothing's landing. I'm getting good feedback back. Like, you know, your platform's too small. That's fair. I started trying to grow it. You know, that's when Instagram was a little easier to grow. Now it's super hard to grow. But started growing it. I went from 1500 to 20,000 you know. Lesley Logan 28:04 That's a big deal, because other 20,000 like, those are not bought, you know, like, yeah.Celeste Holbrook 28:09 No, yeah. And I'm a hard follow. I get that. I have, like, you know, dildos in my videos. Like, I get that I'm not an easy follow. It's not and I'm, you know, Shadow banned all the time, and I get all these notifications that my stuff is not being shown to new audiences. I get that. I get that I'm a hard follow, but that's what publishers want. They want you to have a ready-to-buy platform, which I get. They're trying to make money. But I got a lot of that feedback. I got a lot of, ooh, this is a little it's a little too much for us as a Christian publisher. Like, okay, I get that. And then it was kind of like this line for non, non-Christian publishers, like, we don't really, we don't really talk about religion that much, and then we're not really talking about sex that much.Lesley Logan 29:00 Right? So you're like, too much of the different things for the different people, that's really rough, because it's like, we'll never be everything for anyone, but to not feel like you fit somewhere when you have something to say, that's hard.Celeste Holbrook 29:13 Yeah, yeah, it is really hard. And I think it's what people needed. It's because it's, again, it's the glitter, it's the middle. Like, yeah, I don't fit into either of these spaces. I'm kind of like exploring the middle, right? So that was the feedback I was getting. And finally, we did that for five years, from 2020 to 2025 October of 2025 Rochelle had a call with me, and she's like, honey, I have nowhere else to go. I'm sorry. This has to be the end of it. Bless her. She she did the best that she had, and I am forever grateful for her. But that was it, and that was that's where we're caught up to, where you saw my story, and I was like, just sharing with my audience like I had an unhappy ending, and I'm gonna sit in my sadness right now and just tell you, like life isn't always hunky dory for a sex educator, for anybody, for you for me, and this is where I am right now, and I'm pissed and I'm sad, and the end, right? And then sweet Lesley shows up in my DMs, and she's like, babe, I have this great idea for you. I'm like, okay, so she you send me this information for this company I have a call with, I think Jake who you interviewed. Lesley Logan 30:19 Yeah, Jake Kelfer. Yep, yep, yep. Celeste Holbrook 30:21 I have a call with Jake, and let me tell you, working with them has been and I'm not getting paid for any of this right to for BIB, but working with them has been so healing, so much agency in the process. I got to say exactly what I wanted to say. I got to go at the pace that I wanted to go, like, it was just incredible. Lesley Logan 30:44 So is this book, like a new book? It's not what you're pitching around. It's the glitter you really wanted to write. Celeste Holbrook 30:51 It's the glitter I really wanted to write. Totally different. Yeah.Lesley Logan 30:54 Yes, oh, I love that. And also, like, so, first of all, you guys, did you hear five years? Five years and now we're going on, you know, like, so, yeah, five years and then now big. But here's the other thing, like going through all of those things, you got feedback and made tweaks and did these things. So then when you're writing the book that we're gonna all get to read, I can't even wait to read it. It's the best version of a book that could ever be, because it's really not your first book you've written so manyCeleste Holbrook 31:24 You're so right. And over the course of the years, I changed, as we should. I hope I look back in five years and go like, yeah, I'm a different, new person from who wrote this book. But I was different, and I was more comfortable, like, straight up saying I'm not a Christian anymore. You know, I was more comfortable saying, like, is this a religious book? Yes, because we talk about religion. Do I identify as Christian? No, because of these reasons. Do I think we could learn some stuff from the Bible? Sure. Do I think we're going to talk about the Bible? Yes. I think we have to, because we're talking about purity culture. But I don't, you know, certainly not in 2020 was I willing to be like, yeah, I'm not a Christian, but so much stuff happened between 2020 and 2025, that just took me right on out.Lesley Logan 32:10 Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you on that. I and, you know, like, I have a brother in seminary school, so it's very interesting around here. And I had just said, you know, if, if, the if, all the Christians in the world actually did what Jesus said, like, we would have solved child child poverty and immigration and health care. And, you know, I've had a family member respond, well, if everyone just came to know, and I'm like, no, no, no, that's actually not what the Bible says. Here's the problem, I've read it so like I where I am in my life, which five years ago I was definitely not. Is just like I'm frustrated that a book, any book, has controlled people in such a way that's affecting even their sex lives, but also just lives, the lives of people who didn't even read the book. And so that's where, like, I get upset we don't have to have religious talk on this podcast. But that's that's just where, like, I'm coming from as a person with it. I'm, like, I have a really hard time with it, because it's not a loving world, and it with all the people who say they are, you know, believers. It should be. It should be a very loving world. So, so I think it's really I love. Thank you for sharing the story. This is great.Celeste Holbrook 33:30 Yeah, I totally. I just want to affirm what you're saying. Because I think the the main bottom line for me was it has harmed more than it has helped. Has it helped? Absolutely, there's some really beautiful ways in which Christianity has helped, but has it harmed more than it has helped? I absolutely believe, yes. And so for me, that was the final straw. Do I think Jesus was cool? Yeah. I think He was a radical non-white dude who did really amazing things that we can learn from, right? I believe he saved me from my sins. Not really, but, yeah, that's where I landed. And I was able to say this in in this book, which I would never have been able to do before. Lesley Logan 34:09 Well, also, thank you for sharing it with us, because I also just someone like to see it's a really interesting thing to say, like my husband and I, like go like to say out loud, it's very I don't want to speak for him, because, like, maybe it was a different but, like, it's really hard to say out loud when you're like, I don't believe anymore, and you're like, you know?Celeste Holbrook 34:29 Right, it feels really weird. Lesley Logan 34:31 Yeah, it does. But because it's such an identity that you're raised with, and I think going back to, like, that purity culture that your book is about, and by the way, everyone, like, I just want to say, like, even if you haven't been in that, it's, I think that reading about those things really helps me. It makes it helps make the world make sense to me. Like, I read Tia Levings book, A Well-Trained Wife, and I was like, oh, I get it now. I get why they're acting like this. I get why they're thinking this. Because, like, otherwise, you're like looking at people like they're aliens, and you're like, I don't understand. So I also think it can be really impactful to read just to understand, what are people thinking? What are they going through? Why is it harder for some people to have great sex, or want to have great sex, or feel comfortable having great sex, than for other people? Celeste Holbrook 35:18 Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's so fun, interesting. Most of couples that I talk to, most of them are straight couples, heterosexual couples, and a lot of times, the woman in the partnership will, you know, talk about sex in one way, and the man in the partnership will talk about sex in a different way. And just like, I just don't get it. If it feels good, why wouldn't you want to do it? And so when we kind of like, deconstruct and explain, like, well, she's been taught that sex is dangerous her whole life, and so her nervous system feels on alert, even when there are good things in the future to come with that sexual experience. So to have to overcome this idea of fear and danger in your nervous system, just to get to the beginning of arousal is a whole different ball game than you who starts at arousal, and because it feels very regulating, like, I lean into arousal because it feels regulating as a straight man who's raised in America, and so like, just being able to, like, if you're a dude who picks up this book, It might help you understand the women in your life a little bit better, even if they didn't grow up in purity culture. Most of us grew up with the idea that sex is going to harm us. Lesley Logan 36:28 Yeah, yes. Well, I mean, like, yeah, it's like, even if you weren't raised that way, you also, as a woman, were raised like, be fearful of any bad any man who's coming near you, walking up next to you, like, all these different things. And so it is very difficult to just like, let that go. It's not like, it's like, oh, it's Halloween. I can get Todd Kenny from a stranger now, like, this doesn't work like that. You know, like especially because it's like, your whole life these just little things that are being told. I think that's great for men to read. I think that's such a that's a, what a wonderful way to think about it, who this book could be helpful for? I want to take a brief detour, because you said something on your Instagram a bit ago that truly, like, blew my mind and also made so much sense, right? You said, if you're faking an orgasm, you're fawning, right? It's a fawn response. So can we talk about what a fawn response is? And that a little bit, because I think too many women do that. I only say that because I have friends who talk about it and I'm like, I mean, I just wouldn't just would be like, it's not working today, sir.Celeste Holbrook 37:38 Yes, yeah. I mean, I've done it when I was experiencing really painful sex when I first got married, because of vaginismus, because of purity culture, like I did anything to try and get out of the situation, right? So, so a fawn response is something that we do in response to something traumatic. When something traumatic happens, we go into fight, flight, freeze or on. So fawn is I'm pleasing you know this, this circumstance or person in my life, so there are no negative consequences, all right. So when we fake orgasms, and a lot of women have a lot of guilt around doing this, and this is why I posted that, because I want you to feel not guilty about this. I don't want you to do it forever, but I want you to understand why you're doing this. We fawn response an orgasm when we feel overwhelming pressure to have an orgasm when we feel overwhelming pressure to have an orgasm, it's coming from a fragile man who cannot handle or has put too much value on your ability to come as a validation for his ability to be great, right? I put too much pressure on your ability to be to come is a validation of my ability to be good or great. So part of the work has to become men saying like my validation is not wrapped up in her ability to come, without saying, I still can't give her pleasure. It's kind of, it's, it's, it's nuanced, but I really want women to understand when you're fawning, when you're faking an orgasm, you are essentially doing harm reduction. I don't want the negative consequences of his fragility, so I will fake it so I don't have to deal with that. That is easier for me. That is harm reduction.Lesley Logan 39:47 Right, right, right. And one would hope that a conversation or few could be had, like, here's what's going on and here's how I don't want you to feel and here like, yeah, that's probably where you come in. Celeste Holbrook 40:01 Yes, yeah. It's a really delicate situation. I do have lots of times people come in and the female, the woman in the partnership, will be like, hey, you know, this is what's going on, and this is why I want us together to come but to sessions, but like, I don't know how to tell him, like, it's been years and I've been faking it for years, right? Okay, no problem. We don't have to. I don't believe full transparency is always kind. I believe in honesty. I don't necessarily believe in full transparency. Like, you can, you can be really unkind with full transparency, but you can still be honest. Like, hey, I really want to experience a little bit more sensation when we have sex. Can we work on some new techniques? Can I show you how I masturbate? Can we make it slower so I can feel something different? I really want to make my orgasm stronger, right? So we can be clear with what we want going forward without being like, you know what? I faked it for the last 12 years, right? Because that's on you for not for not saying something as well. Lesley Logan 41:08 Yeah? Because that doesn't like, it can only be, it's not anyone's fault. But also, like, they can't change if they don't know, yeah. Oh, you're so brilliant. You're so amazing. Wait, when is the book coming out? When do I get to read it? When can I preorder, like.Celeste Holbrook 41:23 You are so cute. So it'll by the time this drops, it'll already be out, and we'll send links to to upload it, but it comes out on June 10th and so it's right around the corner. Lesley Logan 41:32 Okay, well, I'm gonna pre I'm gonna pre order. I gotta or I'll order on June 10th. So we can make you a number one, Bestselling Author. We get whatever we get to do, so I can write my authenticated review. After buying it, all the things I can't wait. I'll take it with me on tour.Celeste Holbrook 41:49 Thank you. I'm so like, I just like, I'm cheesing so hard because I'm so excited about it. I reread it again this morning, just like as a skim to look at all the layout on the pages. And I'm just so proud of it. I'm so proud of it, like it finally is here.Lesley Logan 42:07 I have so many chills. I'm gonna cry. Okay, we're gonna take a brief break. We're gonna find out how people can find you, follow you and work with you. Celeste Holbrook 42:14 Okay. Lesley Logan 42:15 All right, Dr. Celeste Holbrook, where do you hang out? You said Instagram. Is there anywhere else? What links? What input handles? Where can they go to buy the book is it on your website, all the things.Celeste Holbrook 42:25 Yes, the book is on the website, but you can buy it the most easily on Amazon. If you do, please leave a review that would be really helpful. And you can go to my website to get into Pleasure Club. That's my monthly subscription where we have a sex ed session every month and a book club session every month we flip between fiction and nonfiction books, which is really, really fun. Lesley Logan 42:44 Oh, fun. I know Brad and I got into the, of course, like everybody in the world, we got into the the dragon situation, yeah. Okay, every. Celeste Holbrook 42:52 Fourth wing? Lesley Logan 42:53 Yeah, yes. Fourth wing, the second one, the third one. You guys, we actually reread the first and second one to listen to the third one, we're going to go back through all three. Highly recommend it with your, with your partner. I think it's a great she writes good sex stories. They don't it's not super cheesy. So I really like them. Celeste Holbrook 43:13 I love that. I think this revolution. I mean, people have been reading Roman ensembles forever, but I think it's really healing. I actually wrote about this in my newsletter this week. Reading sex scenes through a female lens is really, really healing and really helpful, because it it gives you the confidence to be like, oh, I can ask for that, or I can wait for that, or I can ask to slow down or speed up, or whatever, and I can expect somebody to listen and garner consent and all of those things. So reading sex scenes through the female lens or listening to them, I think, is very, very helpful. Celeste Holbrook 43:46 Yeah, yeah. Anyways, I got distracted from your book club. So what's your website again? What's your handle? Celeste Holbrook 43:53 So you can find me at Dr. Celeste Holbrook on Instagram, on and on YouTube, and my web, my website. drcelesteholbrook.com. I just had like a whole mind blowing, like I was thinking about sex scenes written through the female Iens and I couldn't I couldn't go back. Yeah.? So, drcelesteholdbrook is where you can find me almost anywhere. Dr Celeste Holbrook. Lesley Logan 44:14 Perfect, yeah. Sorry, I have an ADHD brain. Lesley Logan 44:16 I love it. I love it. Lesley Logan 44:18 Bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us this time? Celeste Holbrook 44:23 Oh, well, something we talked about already earlier. But the way that I am best executable is actually just to go at my own pace, even though it's slow.Lesley Logan 44:32 Yeah. Oh, I love that. I really do love that. And I also, you mentioned, like, the prioritizing of self. That's one of the ways you did it. I wanted to acknowledge like when you sat in your car and you shared that something had come to an end, that is also a way of prioritizing yourself, because you're feeling your feelings, and you're also letting people know that you're feeling these feelings, like we don't have to, like pretend around people, so just thank you for being you, and always for, you are always in the word gets misused, but you are so authentic and so authentic and just, I really feel like I've it's been so fun over the past five years to watch you grow with what you're doing and how you're educating people and how you're supporting people. And so I'm just so grateful to be on your journey. I can't wait to read your book. I'm so stoked for you. This is the coolest thing. And and you guys, how are you gonna use these tips in your life? Please tag Dr. Celeste Holbrook, send this to a friend. Here is the deal, not all friendships talk about sex, so one of the things you can do is just send the podcast or the book. You don't have to have the if you're not there yet, that's okay. But I think like, the more, the more women hear about all these different things that could be glitter, the more life we're living and the more fun we're having, the more we feel seen. So just thank you so much for being you, Dr. Celeste Holbrook.Celeste Holbrook 45:53 Lesley, you are the reason this book exists. I cannot thank you enough. Thank you so much for having me in your life and on your podcast. And someday, someday we will hug each other in real life.Lesley Logan 46:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We will. It'll happen. I think this winter tour, I feel it in me. All right, you guys, you know what to do. Until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 46:12 That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 46:54 It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 46:59 It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 47:03 Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 47:11 Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 47:14 Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
On Washington Wednesday, Hunter Baker considers John Bolton's handling of national security information; on World Tour, Christian persecution in Nigeria; and transforming spaces for families in crisis. Denny Burk on Jen Hatmaker's deconstruction, and the Wednesday morning newsSupport The World and Everything in It today at wng.org/donateAdditional support comes from WatersEdge. Save more. Do more. Give more. Helping Christians support ministry by giving through a donor-advised fund. watersedge.com/DAFFrom Audio Deacon, a podcast for Christians and listeners who want more than background noise. Episodes offer thoughtful album reviews, curated lists of recordings, and conversations with musicians and thought leaders teaching maturing believers how to listen to music with biblical wisdom. It's also a resource for parents, guiding you through music's glories, pitfalls, and conversations worth having. Listen and subscribe at audio-deacon.com and read more at audiodeacon.substack.comWebsite: audio-deacon.comSubstack: audiodeacon.substack.comPodcast: Buzzsprout | Apple | SpotifyAnd from Covenant College. Rigorous academics, grounded in Reformed theology, lived out in Christ-centered community. covenant.edu/WORLD
Be sure to visit cultureproof.net Please consider supporting the Culture Proof Podcast. We aim to bring engaging content that will challenge and equip Christians to live according to the Straight Edge of Scripture. All gifts are tax deductible. Our Address is: S.E. Ministries PO Box 1269 Saltillo MS, 38866 Episode sponsors: BJUPress Homeschool We Heart Nutrition – Use the code CULTUREPROOF for 20% off Accountable2You – Try free for 10 days Culture Proof Listeners THANKS! Culture Proof Podcast Theme song "Believers" courtesy of Path of Revelation
Today, we dive into tech billionaire Peter Thiel and his bizarre upcoming Antichrist seminars, which blend transhumanism with Christian rhetoric. His vision for human perfection and immortality via technology appears to defy biblical truth, and Thiel's tech-driven vision risks leading souls astray from the gospel. Plus, we talk about Jen Hatmaker's New York Times interview and make a big announcement. Share the Arrows 2025 is on October 11 in Dallas, Texas! Go to sharethearrows.com for tickets now! Sponsored by: Carly Jean Los Angeles: https://www.carlyjeanlosangeles.com Good Ranchers: https://www.goodranchers.com EveryLife: https://www.everylife.com Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": https://a.co/d/4COtBxy --- Timecodes: (00:50) Jen Hatmaker NYT Interview (15:45) A Big Announcement (23:05) Who is Peter Thiel? (34:05) Transhumanism & Technology (43:40) The Rise of the Antichrist (1:00:40) Keep Your Dogs Home! --- Today's Sponsors: A'del — Try A'del's hand-crafted, artisan, small-batch cosmetics and use promo code ALLIE 25% off your first time purchase at https://AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Good Ranchers — Go to https://GoodRanchers.com and subscribe to any of their boxes (but preferably the Allie Beth Stuckey Box) to get free Waygu burgers, hot dogs, bacon, or chicken wings in every box for life. Plus, you'll get $40 off when you use code ALLIE at checkout. EveryLife — The only premium baby brand that is unapologetically pro-life. EveryLife offers high-performing, supremely soft diapers and wipes that protect and celebrate every precious life. Head to EveryLife.com and use promo code ALLIE10 to get 10% of your first order today! Seven Weeks Coffee — Experience the best coffee while supporting the pro-life movement with Seven Weeks Coffee; use code ALLIE at https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com to save up to 25% off your first order, plus your free gift! Pre-Born — Will you help rescue babies' lives? Donate by calling #250 & say keyword 'BABY' or go to Preborn.com/ALLIE. --- Episodes you might like: BONUS: Why Do We Want What We Want? | Guest: Luke Burgis https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bonus-why-do-we-want-what-we-want-guest-luke-burgis/id1359249098?i=1000582688513 Ep 1211 | Israel: What Should Christians Think? And an Announcement https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1211-israel-what-should-christians-think-and/id1359249098?i=1000714714917 Ep 1175 | Singularity: Davos' New AI-Backed Plan to Take Power | Guest: Justin Haskins https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1175-singularity-davos-new-ai-backed-plan-to-take/id1359249098?i=1000704354680 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
The former evangelical star on waking up halfway through her life. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
The former evangelical star on waking up halfway through her life.
Description: In Part 2 of this episode, we push even deeper — into the personal, the creative, the brave, and the sometimes scary places we go when we dare to tell the truth. This time, Tyler Merritt has turned the tables on Jen and he's asking the questions! We talk about what it's like to be seen, judged, misunderstood — and still choose honesty. We talk about Awake and the vulnerability involved with retelling the painful and unvarnished parts of your story. We talk about fear. And we talk about the joy we've found in the middle of it all. So let's jump back in. In this second installment: Jen talks about the last time that she felt truly brave and what it felt like to unearth and expose some of the most tender and personal moments of her life in such an honest and examining way Tyler asks Jen who was her best model of kindness at a young age Jen shares the song that is reflecting her current vibe in the world And Tyler asks Jen what she wishes more people understood about her Thought-provoking Quotes: "Our stories, though they may seem new, are the things that change the world." - Jen Hatmaker “What I asked myself when deciding to include or exclude something was, am I going to be proud of this five years from now? So that's five years further down the road. I'm going to be five years more mature, five years more healed, five more years of distance. Will I be proud of what I say five years from now? And I let that be my guide.” – Jen Hatmaker “It's been weird to be at that center of people's judgment for quite a long time now. I've evolved a lot in the public eye, which is weird for everybody. It's weird for me. It's weird for people to watch. At all points along the way, I can say sincerely, I have really and truly been trying to do my best. I just wish people knew that.” – Jen Hatmaker “My story is not special and I think that's what makes it important. I hope that the readers will see their own story inside of it somewhere in some way on some level and then decide to take from mine what they need for theirs. So I can't wait to find out.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest's Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Recorded live from the Oregon coast on the final day of MeCamp, this special two-part conversation between Jen and her partner Tyler Merritt is the perfect blend of hilarity, heart, and honesty. In Part 1, Jen and Tyler share stories from their MeCamp adventures — including a whale-watching excursion that got a little too close for comfort, and a near-death boat ride they'll never forget. They also reflect on the power of personal storytelling, how vulnerability has shown up in their lives and work, and why telling the truth (even when it's awkward) can be both healing and hilarious. Discussing the impact of Tyler's viral video "Before You Call the Cops" to Jen's reflections on her upcoming book "Awake," this conversation reveals the transformative potential of embracing vulnerability. Tune in to discover how opening up about our most personal stories can not only heal us but also inspire others to see themselves in our narratives. Tyler talks about the most awkward moment he's ever had because he opted to be vulnerable and honest instead of protecting his pride He and Jen discuss the hardest truths they've ever had to tell themselves And Tyler goes back into the annals to reveal his most embarrassing moment as a performer on stage Thought-provoking Quotes: “The spirit of MeCamp almost got us killed.”– Tyler Merritt “I'm aware that it's not every day that most people see a six foot two black man with dreadlocks crying in real life. I have never regretted a single moment in my life of being transparent about how I feel emotionally with somebody. Vulnerability has never kicked back at me in a negative way.”– Tyler Merritt “I think vulnerability begets vulnerability. Because I was saying who I am and I was allowing myself to be open to the world, the world was willing to take that. What it did within the black community is it allowed a lot of other black people to begin making their own videos going, before you call the cops, I just want you to know this about me. So it opened up a door of vulnerability that really allowed that to kind of echo.”– Tyler Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest's Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Description: We've got an absolute legend in the house. She's a country music powerhouse, a Grammy winner, a TV star, a best-selling cookbook author, and honestly, probably the only person who could out-sing you and out-cook you on the same day — we're talking about the one and only Trisha Yearwood. You know this queen's voice from classics like 'She's in Love with the Boy' and 'How Do I Live' — songs that have made us cry, and belt in our cars, and maybe text someone we shouldn't. And now, she's back with a brand new album called The Mirror — and let us tell you, it's not just a comeback, it's a reflection, literally. It's raw, it's real, and it's perhaps her most vulnerable project yet. The Mirror is Trisha's first album where she's co-written every song, stepping into new creative territory as both a singer and songwriter. It's a window into Trisha's life at this moment—a culmination of decades in the spotlight, but told on her own terms. It's not just an album—it's a statement of identity, and an invitation to look at yourself with courage and compassion. We're talking about life, love, growth, and how Trisha continues to reinvent herself while staying grounded in what matters. So grab a coffee, or something stronger, and get comfy — because Trisha and Jen are inviting us into their conversation on how we let go of the things that no longer fit who we are so we can embrace the things putting fresh wind at our backs. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There's something in me that really believes in me. It has to be or I wouldn't be sitting here doing these things.”– Trisha Yearwood “I've never been a person who could answer the question, ‘where do you see yourself in the next five years?' I just know that I'm open to the opportunities.”– Trisha Yearwood “For a long time. I let the approval part of me drive the car. I drove that car to plenty of places I was out of alignment with. I don't think I'll ever be completely rid of that voice, but she's in the backseat now. She's not driving the car anymore.”– Trisha Yearwood “Songwriting makes you instantly intimate because you're having to be really vulnerable.”– Trisha Yearwood “From a young age, a lot of women are taught that we don't get to write our own story and we don't get to take control. But you get to decide what the truth about you is and how you want your life to be.”– Trisha Yearwood Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Mirror Album by Trisha Yearwood - https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Trisha's Southern Kitchen on Food Network - https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/trishas-southern-kitchen Dry Needling - https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/16542-dry-needling Frozen Shoulder in Menopause - https://bit.ly/44NNOJi Awake: a Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40Og791 Walkaway Joe - https://open.spotify.com/track/5pzoq7ggrA0GN3SMjy0NT8 She's in Love with a Boy - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF The Song Remembers When - https://open.spotify.com/track/4dS7TYCTGKyhs9ZDt8iPcT The Bluebird Cafe - https://bluebirdcafe.com/ TalkShopLive - https://talkshop.live/channels/trishayearwood Guest's Links: Website - https://www.trishayearwood.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/TrishaYearwood Twitter - https://x.com/TrishaYearwood Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TrishaYearwood Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw0Nn2LTsXGB0rP53Z0ACWQ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrishayearwood Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David's life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention. Key highlights from this conversation include: How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance Why are many people living radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don't truly care about How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life How anger and joy are companion emotions The sacredness of everyday practices Thought-provoking Quotes: “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate “It's just very hard not to be cynical about everything and what I found was that I was cynical because I really, really cared. And, because I really, really cared, everything was just so overwhelming, and the easiest way to deal with that was to shut down and be cynical and be snarky. But, I realized that I had to press through and embrace what was behind that cynicism. so I had to really embrace my own earnestness and my own care in the world and concentrate on what I wanted to build rather than what I wanted to tear down.” – David Gate “It's a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/ Guest's Links: Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/ Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Today, we're celebrating 1,000 episodes of Pantsuit Politics with our friend Jen Hatmaker. Jen Hatmaker is a writer, podcaster, speaker, and long-time friend of our show. She's with us today to reflect on our journey to this podcasting milestone and discuss her new memoir, Awake, coming out in September. Whether you've been listening to Pantsuit Politics for 1 episode or 1,000, we're delighted to have you join us for a mom-hug of an episode. Don't forget Reimagining Citizenship, our 30-day meditation series leading up to July 4th starts this week. You can join us here. Visit our website for complete show notes, premium shows, show merchandise, and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Description: Jeff Chu, an award-winning journalist, author, and "sort-of-kind-of farmer," joins Jen on the For the Love podcast to discuss his book, Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand. In the book, Jeff shares stories from his time at “The Farminary”, a twenty-one-acre working farm at Princeton's Theological Seminary, where students explore life's biggest questions while cultivating the earth. Jeff reflects on his own struggles with faith, identity, and the expectations placed upon him as a gay man raised in a conservative Christian environment. His journey reveals the challenges of cultivating, not just plants, but also a spiritual life that is authentic, evolving, and inclusive. In this conversation, Jeff, Jen and Amy discuss: What Jeff learned at the “Farminary” about creating “good soil,” drawing lessons from the rhythms of growth, decay, and regeneration that define life on the land Finding moments of grace and healing. Challenging traditional interpretations of the biblical Parable of the Sower Exploring faith, not as something static, but as something that evolves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “God's love is that lavish and it's there for you. And it doesn't come with the conditions that you might have. It doesn't require you to do anything more than you've already done. It just requires you to be. God's love is big enough to hold that, and your mess, and your beauty, and your frailty, and anything else you might bring to God.” – Jeff Chu “I see folks trying to figure out how to create belonging, not just for themselves, but also for others, and being willing to ask those tough questions out loud, and being brave enough to say, I don't know, but I wonder. Being bold enough to point out not just the ugly things, but also to name the beautiful and hopeful things. Those are all things that give me hope.” – Jeff Chu #JeffChu #GoodSoil #ForTheLovePodcast #SpiritualJourney Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Community First Village / Mobile Loaves and Fishes - https://mlf.org/community-first/ Genesis Gardens - https://mlf.org/genesis-gardens/ 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4kZZmjN Actually Believing God Loves You Changes Everything: Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/actually-believing-god-loves-you-changes-everything-jeff-chu/ Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4kXozLJ Wholehearted Faith by Rachel Held Evans and Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4iZlOrA Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian's Pilgrimage in Search of God in America by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4bZH91N March: Book One by John Lewis - https://amzn.to/4c6xmXI Travel and Leisure magazine editor-at-large - https://www.travelandleisure.com/author/jeff-chu Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan - https://amzn.to/446LUo5 Padraig O'Tuama, poet - https://www.padraigotuama.com/ Kitchen Hymns by Padraig O'Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccPFdV Maggie Smith, poet - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ In The Shelter: Finding a Home in the World by Padraig O'Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccNNBL Jeff Chu's Good Soil Book Tour - https://byjeffchu.com/tour Guest's Links: Website - https://byjeffchu.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/byjeffchu Twitter - https://x.com/jeffchu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/byjeffchu Substack - https://byjeffchu.com/contact#substack Connect with Jen! Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Description: If we're lucky, most of us will live an abundant life that's filled with a number of significant transitions. How we embrace those inevitable life changes and honor that growth can make a big difference in how we are prepared to meet future challenges. Today, Jen and Amy have the pleasure of sitting down with Melinda French Gates to discuss how, at 60, she is stepping into this next beautiful season of life. By giving a rare glimpse into her interior life, and sharing previously untold stories included in her new memoir, The Next Day: Transitions, Change and Moving Forward, Melinda shares the heart-connecting lessons that we all can apply to the universal moments in our lives – including becoming a parent, the loss of a close friend, the loss of a marriage, knowing the right time to make a career move. In this episode, we discuss: The art of letting go and beginning again and making the most of the time between an ending and a new beginning How growing up in a middle-class Catholic family influenced Melinda's values and worldview What it looks like to loosen the bonds of perfectionism and embrace uncertainty in times of change The new projects, ideas and hopes Melinda has for the future Thought-provoking Quotes: “Surround yourself with great people who are all charging toward the same mission.” – Melinda French Gates “There was something about the rollback of women's rights in the United States that I just never thought we would see in our lifetime. To see that my granddaughters will have fewer rights than I have, just shouldn't be. I felt called to try and do something about that.” – Melinda French Gates “When you lift women up, what I know from all over the world is, they lift families up and they lift societies up. And so they should be able to step into their full power, but there are still barriers in society that hold us back.” – Melinda French Gates “Women don't tell each other enough that we're proud of them so it's good to hear it, no matter who you are.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Melinda Gates: The Power of Lifting Up Women - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-18/melinda-gates-the-power-of-lifting-up-women/ Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM Adele - Easy On Me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY The Gates Foundation “Make Me Care About… with Jen Hatmaker” podcast - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/podcast/make-me-care-about The Next Day: Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FBDoTV The Moment of Lift: How Empowering Women Changes the World by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FIW98c Gates Foundation - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ Pivotal Ventures - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Guest's Links: Website - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melindafrenchgates Twitter - https://x.com/melindagates Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melindagates Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/melindagates TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melindafrenchgates Connect with Jen! Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today's challenging educational landscape. Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU's competency-based education are transforming access to learning. What You'll Learn in This Episode Dr. Johnson's Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education. Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it's a game-changer for adult learners. Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what's being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it. School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued. Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We don't believe in courses just for the sake of courses. Everything at WGU is designed to build skills that translate directly into a career.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Retention is just as critical as recruitment—if we don't take care of our teachers, we will never solve the teacher shortage crisis.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Teachers are literally helping us raise the next generation. Every second of what they do matters.“ - Jen Hatmaker “The future of education must include personalization, technology integration, and real-world experience to prepare students for success.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Learn more about WGU: wgu.edu Guest's Links: Interested in becoming a teacher or continuing your education? WGU offers flexible, affordable degree programs designed for working adults. Website - https://www.wgu.edu/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/westerngovernorsu/ Twitter - https://x.com/wgu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wgu.edu/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/WesternGovernorsUniv TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@wgu Stacey Ludwig Johnson's Website - https://www.wgu.edu/blog/authors/stacey-ludwig-johnson.html Stacey Ludwig Johnson's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacey-ludwig-johnson-0bba1715/ Connect with Jen! Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Description: Chip Leighton is a guy whose kids describe him as an “unemployed, middle-aged TikTokker“. He has turned the chaos of parenting kids – teens, in particular, into comedy gold. By taking hilarious text from teens and turning them into reels, he keeps the internet in stitches. With his hilarious take on raising teenagers that is so relatable and mirrors so many parents' exact experiences, Chip helps countless moms and dads know that they are not alone in their wild journey. Now he's compiling the best conversations from texts and real-life moments into his new book, What Time Is Noon? Chip and Jen talk about: The names we are given as parents of teens: Gangster, Bruh, or Jen's favorite….Pimp Ridiculous questions our kids have asked, such as: Did grandma have kids? Am I a notary? Am I on Medicare? What's a stamp? Savage burns Chip's kids have made about his wardrobe: Our favorite – “that looks like the material they make tents from”. Endless instructions from the teens on how not to be embarrassing in front of their friends Also, Chip tells the story of deciding to leave his corporate job to try his hand at standup (at the urging of one Caroline Rhea). Segments: Bless & Release: The clothes we made our kids wear GenXCellence: Parenting in GenX versus GenZ *** Thought-provoking Quotes: I'm nostalgic about the feral children going out riding their bikes, building forts, staying out till the streetlights came on. – Amy Hardin It's universal, it's all teens. They don't know how to dress properly for the weather. But they know what we (the parents) are doing wrong. – Jen Hatmaker and Chip Leighton You wouldn't have predicted that I would be funny. Neither of my parents were performers. I wasn't the class clown. I've always had a dry sense of humor and I've appreciated that type of comedy, I've just kept it inside all these years. – Chip Leighton I do believe that everybody has some strengths and interests and talents that aren't necessarily fully leveraged in the typical career or job that they have and these new platforms help bring that out and there are more creative people able to connect with an audience now. – Chip Leighton Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What Time is Noon?: Hilarious Texts, Ridiculous Feedback, and Not-So-Subtle Advice from Teenagers by Chip Leighton - https://amzn.to/4hp7qrH Caroline Rhea - https://carolinerhea.com/ Guest's Links: Chip's website - https://theleightonshow.com/ Chip's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/the_leighton_show/ Chip's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theleightonshow/ Chip's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzdstcflneJKZ_Qi5TQAvQQ Chip's TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@the_leighton_show Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Description: It seemed like a good idea at the time… a twisty, suspenseful thriller set on a cruise ship. How could this not be the perfect story to build a little buzz and excitement in my community ahead of our upcoming Jen Hatmaker cruise? Did we get more than we bargained for? Ruth Ware's writing has rightfully been compared to that of suspense-queen, Agatha Christie, for featuring everyday female protagonists often white-knuckling it through some treacherous situations in places where they are isolated from any rescue – a glass house in the woods, an excluded ski resort, a remote tropical island, a boutique cruise ship! Today, Jen sits down with the author of our January 2025 JHBC pick to navigate the many twists and turns of The Woman in Cabin 10 and why so many of our readers are losing sleep this month thanks to her innate skill of setting a heart-pounding scene. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: People are comparing me to Agatha Christie which is kind of terrifying. The thing that is so brilliant about some of Christie's books that I love the most is the closed room setting: the terrifying storm-wracked island, the luxury train in the middle of the snow storm, or the Dahabiya drifting down the Nile. What she does so brilliantly is that sense of corrupted luxury, that setting that should be really idyllic turns out horrific and becomes more and more claustrophobic and more terrifying. – Ruth Ware I have never been on a cruise but I had a chance to look around a ship as a day passenger and I was so surprised by how much I got right. There was so much that I had guessed at and I turned out to be more correct than I ever could have imagined. – Ruth Ware The way in which you write fear, to me, it feels the truest version of it when it's not screaming, ‘you're so scared, you can't make a sound' or ‘you're so scared, you're frozen – you can't move.' That to me, rings true. – Jen Hatmaker I do try really hard to drop clues and play fair with the reader. I know as a reader, the feeling that I hate most, is what I feel like the writer has cheated me and there was information that I couldn't possibly have known, stuff I couldn't have guessed and that I find deeply irritating as a reader. I try always to feel like I played fair with the reader and they did have a chance of guessing it even if they didn't get there. – Ruth Ware Isn't that why we love reading crime? It's because you can have bad things happen in a fictional world. It doesn't always get tied up in every single respect and yes, there's sadness in terms that someone is usually dead. But there is some kind of restorative justice at the end. – Ruth Ware Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Woman in Cabin 10 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/3DKHCrH In a Dark, Dark Wood by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/400kQ6g Agatha Christie - https://www.agathachristie.com/ Below Deck tv show - https://www.bravotv.com/below-deck The Woman in Suite 11 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/4gKYDk1 The Woman in Cabin 10 on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/the-woman-in-cabin-10-release-date-photos-news We Live Here Now by Sarah Pinborough - https://amzn.to/4h7kkKN Guest's Links: Ruth's website - https://ruthware.com/ Ruth's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthwarewriter/ Ruth's Twitter - https://x.com/RuthWareWriter Ruth's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ruthwarewriter/ Ruth's Threads - https://www.threads.net/@ruthwarewriter Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Description: In this delightful episode, Jen Hatmaker sits down with bestselling author Josie Silver, the brilliant mind behind One Day in December. Josie shares her journey from writing ten novels to achieving massive success with this enchanting Christmas love story. Together, Jen and Josie discuss the creative process, the inspiration behind her characters, and the challenges of crafting a love story that spans a decade. Josie opens up about the unexpected ways her personal life influences her writing, how she brings authenticity to her characters, and what it feels like to finally hit her stride after years of writing. Whether you're a die-hard romance fan or simply looking for your next great read, this cozy conversation will inspire and entertain. Thought-provoking Quotes: You write the men you want them to be, not necessarily the men they are. That's part of the magic of romance writing.” – Josie Silver “I think a lot of the little, quiet moments in life—the shorthand between people who truly know each other—are what make stories feel real.” – Josie Silver “Do you want help, or do you want a hug?” – Jen Hatmaker, reflecting on parenting young adults. It was a joy to write this book. Some books come out more easily than others and, this one, I wrote in six weeks. Some books have taken six months, some have taken far longer; whereas this one, every time I sat down, everything just seemed to work. – Josie Silver Resources Mentioned in This Episode: One Day in December: A Novel by Josie Silver - https://amzn.to/3OD2D9A Guest's Links: Josie's books - https://amzn.to/3VlTFl3 Josie's website - https://josiesilver.com/ Josie's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/josiesilverauthor Josie's Twitter - https://x.com/josiesilver Josie's BlueSky - https://bsky.app/profile/josiesilver.bsky.social Josie's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JosieSilverAuthor Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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