Podcast appearances and mentions of Jen Hatmaker

Description:There is no guest on the mic today. There is you. It is Listener Voicemail Day, one of Jen's favorite episodes to make, and it lands in the middle of our permission series, right after Jen asked you to find your one true sentence and say it out loud. You did. This episode is what came back.It comes in two halves. First, the women who called about Jen's mom, Jana King, who, as Jen puts it, a genre.Have something you need to say out loud? Head to JenHatmaker.com/Podcast, look for the Send Voicemail button, and tell us the quiet thing you finally said, or the one you are still working up to. We are listening.Thought-provoking Quotes:"It is real work as moms to not take our own burdens and gently pick them up off of our own shoulders and place them on the shoulders of our kids." - Jen Hatmaker"Hearing your mom describe a different way of loving and existing was incredibly freeing for me." - Stacy, listener voicemail"It's just a new terror every day." - Sena, listener voicemail"I betrayed myself to keep everyone comfortable." - Gina, from her poem "Backfire""The truth is, I'm sad because I've given up on myself." - Courtney, listener voicemail"You do not have to have the answer, or even the path, in order to say the true sentence." - Jen HatmakerResources Mentioned in This Episode:The Sacred Yes: What My Mom Taught Me About Courage, Curiosity, and Starting Again (Jen and her mom, Jana King) - [EPISODE LINK]Say the Quiet Thing Out Loud, Jen's solo episode and the one true sentence assignment - [EPISODE LINK]https://jenhatmaker.com/podcastLetters from the Middle, Jen's Substack, where the honesty conversation runs all month - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/The AWAKE Collective, Jen's subscriber community on Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/p/the-awake-collectiveTell us your story. Leave a voicemail at https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast, look for the Send Voicemail button.Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/Jen's Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/Jen's Facebook

Jen Hatmaker says she no longer believes in a literal hell—but this isn't just a debate about one doctrine. It's a revealing case study in how deconstruction can reshape the entire Christian faith.In this episode, we break down Hatmaker's reasons for rejecting hell and examine a pattern we see again and again in progressive Christianity: bad experiences or bad theology are identified, but instead of going back to Scripture to correct them, biblical doctrines themselves are discarded.Is the biblical doctrine of hell really cruel? Is believing you know the truth inherently arrogant? Does rejecting Calvinism require rejecting Christianity? And what happens to evangelism when there's ultimately nothing to be saved from?We also tackle a bigger question: When something in Christianity makes us deeply uncomfortable, who gets the final word—our feelings or God?This isn't ultimately about Jen Hatmaker. It's about where deconstruction can lead when Scripture is no longer the authority by which everything else is tested.

In Episode 232, Sarah is joined by returning guest Anderson McKean of Page & Palette Bookstore for the 2026 edition of Micro Genres! Each year, this series gives us a chance to niche down even further into the kinds of books we love — spotlighting those very specific sub-sub-genres that capture a particular reading taste. This year, Sarah and Anderson have 10 all-new Micro Genres to share, along with standout books for each. With more than 80 books mentioned, you're bound to find a few new additions to your TBR — and maybe recognize a Micro Genre or two of your own. This post contains affiliate links through which I make a small commission when you make a purchase (at no cost to you!). CLICK HERE for the full episode Show Notes on the blog. Politically-Adjacent Stories (Sarah) The Hopefuls by Jennifer Close (2016) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:00]  Charlotte Walsh Like to Win by Jo Piazza (2018) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [3:11]  American Wife by Curtis Sittenfeld (2008) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:36] Rodham by Curtis Sittenfeld (2020) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:38]   Vantage Point by Sara Sligar (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:47] The Emperor of Ocean Park (Elm Harbor, 1) by Stephen L. Carter (2002) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [4:48]   Palace Council (Elm Harbor, 3) by Stephen L. Carter (2008) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [4:49]  The Boomerang by Robert Bailey (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [5:23] State of Terror by Louise Penny and Hillary Clinton (2021) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [6:14]  The Situation Room by George Stephanopoulos (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [6:55]  Becoming by Michelle Obama (2018) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [8:18]  From the Corner of the Oval by Beck Dorey-Stein (2018) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [8:53]  Retellings that Are NOT Mythological (Anderson) Lady Tremaine by Rachel Hochhauser (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [10:41]  The Beheading Game by Rebecca Lehmann (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [10:58]  Beautiful Little Fools by Jillian Cantor (2022) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [11:55]  Hester by Laurie Lico Albanese (2022) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [12:23]  Honeysuckle by Bar Fridman-Tell (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [12:55]  Eligible by Curtis Sittenfeld (2016) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [14:03]  Anna K (Anna K, 1) by Jenny Lee (2020) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [14:08]  Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver (2022) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [14:20]  The Kind Worth Killing by Peter Swanson (2015) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [14:36]  The Favorites by Layne Fargo (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [14:48]  Broken Country by Clare Leslie Hall (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [14:57]  Wasp's Nest by Kat Stoddard (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [15:26]  A Thousand Acres by Jane Smiley (1991) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [15:39]  Other Books Mentioned The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne (1850) [12:32]  James by Percival Everett (2024) [12:36]  Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (1813) [14:07]  Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (1878) [14:11]  David Copperfield by Charles Dickens (1850) [14:24]  Strangers on a Train by Patricia Highsmith (1950) [14:41]  Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë (1847) [14:55]  The Go-Between by L. P. Hartley (1953) [15:03]  The Philadelphia Story by Philip Barry (1939) [15:32]  King Lear by William Shakespeare (1608) [15:45]  Ministers Behaving Badly (Sarah) Dominion by Addie E. Citchens (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [16:36] Awake by Jen Hatmaker (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [16:45] God Spare the Girls by Kelsey McKinney (2021) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [17:19] The True Confessions of First Lady Freeman by Deesha Philyaw (Sep 29, 2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [17:36] The Dearly Beloved by Cara Wall (2019) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [17:51] The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver (1998) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [18:16] Dear Reader / Love Letters to Books (Anderson) This Book Made Me Think of You by Libby Page (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [19:14] The Starless Sea by Erin Morgenstern (2019) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [19:53] The Borrower by Rebecca Makkai (2011) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [20:22] Dear Fahrenheit 451 by Anne Spence (2017) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [22:24] Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore by Robin Sloan (2012) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [22:37] The Storied Life of A. J. Fikry by Gabrielle Zevin (2014) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [22:56] Other Books Mentioned I Have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai (2023) [20:29] The Great Believers by Rebecca Makkai (2018) [20:31] Yellowface by R. F. Kuang (2023) [22:15] Dark Humor (Sarah) Rabbit Cake by Annie Hartnett (2017) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [23:52] Unlikely Animals by Annie Hartnett (2022) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [23:53] The Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [23:55] Goodbye, Vitamin by Rachel Khong (2017) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [24:41] Cleo Dang Would Rather Be Dead by Mai Nguyen (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [25:42] Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [25:51] The Heart's Invisible Furies by John Boyne (2017) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [26:00] Here One Moment by Liane Moriarty (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [26:47] Other Books Mentioned Real Americans by Rachel Khong (2024)  [24:44] Fantasy Even Sarah Might Like / Fantasy-Lite (Anderson) Conform (Conform Series, 1) by Ariel Sullivan (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [28:54] The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern (2011) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [30:13] The Familiar by Leigh Bardugo (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [30:39] The Atlas Six (The Atlas Trilogy, 1) by Olivie Blake (2022)* | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [30:53] A Darker Shade of Magic (Shades of Magic, 1) by V. E. Schwab (2015) | Amazon| Bookshop.org  [31:57] Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V. E. Schwab (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [32:02] The Midnight Train (The Midnight World, 2) by Matt Haig (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [32:04] The Midnight Library (The Midnight World, 1) by Matt Haig (2020) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [32:05] The Measure by Nikki Erlick (2022) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [32:20] The Dream Hotel by Laila Lalami (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [32:25] The Other Valley by Scott Alexander Howard (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [32:28] Other Books Mentioned The Hunger Games (The Hunger Games, 1) by Suzanne Collins (2008) [29:03] The Handmaid's Tale (The Handmaid's Tale, 1) by Margaret Atwood (1985) [29:04] Like Friday Night Lights, But Book Form (Sarah) a.k.a. Sports Books That Are About Far More Than Sports The Art of Fielding by Chad Harbach (2011) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [35:06]  The Slip by Lucas Schaefer (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [35:15]  The World According to Garp by John Irving (1978) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [35:51] In One Person by John Irving (2012) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [35:53]   Carrie Soto Is Back by Taylor Jenkins Reid (2022) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [36:12]  The Flock by Ellen Bar (Apr 27, 2027) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [36:41]  The Last Days of Vic & Coco by Taylor Jenkins Reid (Mar 2, 2027) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [38:31]  Other Books Mentioned The Amateur by Chris Bohjalian (2026)  [37:29]  The Double Bind by Chris Bohjalian (2007)  [37:48]  Women Rule the World (Anderson) The Romanov Empress by C. W. Gortner (2018) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [40:16]  Mademoiselle Chanel by C. W. Gortner (2015) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [40:41] Marlene by C. W. Gortner (2016) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [40:43] The Woman with the Cure by Lynn Cullen (2023) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [41:07]  Mrs. Poe by Lynn Cullen (2013) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [41:28]  Twain's End by Lynn Cullen (2015) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [41:31] Lady Clementine by Marie Benedict (2020) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [41:36]  The Other Einstein by Marie Benedict (2016) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [41:53] The Only Woman in the Room by Marie Benedict (2019) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [41:47] Daughter of a Daughter of a Queen by Sarah Bird (2018) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [42:03] Other Books Mentioned Z: A Novel of Zelda Fitzgerald by Therese Anne Fowler (2013) [43:13]  Isola by Allegra Goodman (2025) [43:32]  Royals (Sarah) The Royal We (The Royal We, 1) by Heather Cocks and Jessica Morgan (2015) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [45:04]  Red, White & Royal Blue (Red, White & Royal Blue, 1) by Casey McQuiston(2019) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [45:06]  American Royals (American Royals, 1) by Katharine McGee (2019) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [45:09]  Spare by Prince Harry (2023) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [45:19] The Force of Such Beauty by Barbara Bourland (2022) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [45:29] The Heir Apparent by Rebecca Armitage (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [45:48]   The Windsor Affair by Melanie Benjamin (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [46:03]  This Land is Your Land (Anderson) Land by Maggie O'Farrell (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [46:34]  Damnation Spring by Ash Davidson (2021) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [47:33]  I Will Send Rain by Rae Meadows (2016) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [47:52]  The Well and the Mine by Gin Phillips (2007) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [48:07]  Greenwood by Michael Christie (US Release 2020) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [49:03]  The Islanders by Lewis Robinson (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [49:32]  The Shark House by Sara Ackerman (2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [49:40]  *Publication year reflects the later traditionally published edition for a book originally self-published.

Do your feelings get a vote when God has already spoken? From rejecting hell to claiming personal encounters with Jesus, Todd looks at why even sincere experiences can lead us away from truth—and why Scripture has to remain the final authority. Segment 1 • Why Todd believes leaving mentally ill and addicted people on the streets isn't compassion. • What his trip to Chattanooga revealed about homelessness and human dignity. • Why personal autonomy isn't always the most loving answer. Segment 2 • Jen Hatmaker says abandoning her belief in a literal hell was “the best thing” that ever happened to her. • Should Christians use the fear of hell when sharing the gospel—especially with children? • Why the gospel requires both the reality of judgment and the kindness of God in providing a Savior. Segment 3 • Kathie Lee Gifford says she's experienced Jesus speaking to her and encounters with the demonic. • Why Todd says Christians don't need personal experiences to confirm what Jesus has already revealed in Scripture. • Are Christians treating baptism with the same urgency we see in the book of Acts? Segment 4 • Why older Christian men cannot afford to coast spiritually or assume they're beyond serious sexual sin. • Massachusetts expands access to late-term abortion—and an abortion doctor says he'd perform one simply because a woman changed her mind. • A proposed law would require pornography websites to verify that users are adults. ___ Thanks for listening! Wretched Radio would not be possible without the financial support of our Gospel Partners. If you would like to support Wretched Radio we would be extremely grateful. VISIT https://fortisinstitute.org/donate/ If you are already a Gospel Partner we couldn't be more thankful for you if we tried!

Jen Hatmaker — author and host of the For The Love podcast — is a charismatic, natural born leader. But growing up, Jen believes there are only certain roles women like her can be expected to perform. Roles that are always secondary to men in leadership. This week, Jen tells the story of embracing her inner lion and learning that we can be powerful in many ways, not just the ways we've been shown.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Raising Future HEALTHY Adults with Elizabeth Pehrson (Episode 296)   Hebrews 12:11 NIV “No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.”   *Transcription Below*   Elizabeth Pehrson is a speaker, podcaster and founder of The Exchange. She's a yellow sanguine, who is full of energy and lives life wide-open! She loves Jesus and meaningful connections. Elizabeth is married to David and mother of EIGHT children, who range from high school to graduated from college.   Follow her online:  Instagram: @long_game_parenting or @octomama or @theexchangeus Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.m.pehrson   Thank you to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage   Questions and Topics We Cover: What are a handful of habits in the home that you see as most essential for families so that they all can experience a joyful life together? What natural consequences and strategic discipline can you offer as ideas for teens living at home? As parents, what else can we do now to help our kids reach maturity and independence as adults?   Previous Guests from The Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned: 74 Effective Parenting for Toddlers Through College with Wife, Mother to 8, and The Exchange Founder, Elizabeth Pehrson Part 1  75 Responding to God's Stirring with Elizabeth Pehrson, Founder of The Exchange, Part Two Inspiring Perspective in Parenting with Kay Wyma (Episode 164) Stories of God's Upside Down Economy with Kristen Welch (Episode 174)   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:11) ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:18) ‍ ‍ Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. ‍ ‍ I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Their weekend marriage retreats will strengthen your marriage, while you enjoy the gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org slash savvy. ‍ ‍ My returning guest for today is Elizabeth Pehrson, and if possible, we are going to get even more practical than we did last week, as we're going to discuss ways to actually enjoy parenting, while simultaneously preparing our children to launch as faithful and healthy adults someday. ‍ ‍ Here's our chat. ‍ ‍ Welcome back again to The Savvy Sauce, Elizabeth. I'm so excited to be here. ‍ ‍ This is fun. It's always a joy to get a chat with you, and we're going to go even more practical today, but do you mind sharing some disclaimers about that first? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (1:32 - 1:57) ‍ ‍ Not at all. You know, when I was growing up, I grew up in the church, and I really looked at "train up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he will not depart from it," as a promise. And it really is a principle. And so as much as we want it to be A plus B equals C, it's not always that way. There are certain principles that we are to follow and God's asked us to, and so I think we need to focus on that and leave the rest to him. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (1:57 - 2:28) ‍ ‍ That's so good. So, keeping that in mind, but then also hearing wise tips that we can hopefully implement. How do you think we can teach our children the importance of reciprocity, such as encouraging them to ask other people questions rather than just focusing the conversation on themselves, or encouraging them to do chores around the house, rather than just expecting their parents to do all the work or over function for them? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (2:29 - 6:07) ‍ ‍ Oh, yeah, this one's right up my alley. I love this question so much. John F. Kennedy, you know, gave his famous speech, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." And I think in the same way, we want each family member to ask not what can you do for me, but what can I do for the family. And we believe that wholeheartedly. ‍ ‍ And so, because of that, we started assigning age-appropriate chores at the age of three. And they have a chore every single day of the week, except for Sunday, even when they're busy, even when they have baseball, football, lacrosse, didn't matter what it was. We have this whiteboard in our home. And it's like the motherboard of all things in our family. And it's got on the top part of it, it has our calendar appointments, practices, games, meetings, you know, meals for the week, like everything you can imagine that it takes to run our family is at the top part. And then the second part of the whiteboard, we have a section that says, “because we clothe and feed you, and then it has their names underneath that. ‍ ‍ And so, when they leave for school, I look at the calendar, I look at everything that needs to be gotten done that day or that week for the family. And then I delegate it to each of the children. And so, I would assign them each a chore. And so, when they would get home from school, it was right there where they would walk in and put their backpacks down and they knew to look at their chore. And they knew that it had to be finished before dinner. And it made it so easy because there was no nagging, there was no reminding, there was no, you know, begging them to do it and following up, it was just so much a part of each of their day, just like going to school or brushing their teeth, it was something they knew they had to do. ‍ ‍ And in addition to that, in our home, when our children turn eight, we have this rule that you are no longer a consumer, but you are a contributor. So, at the age of eight, they have to start doing all their own laundry, washing their own sheets, and lots of other substantially harder chores. And then at nine, they have to start mowing the yard, they start cooking and things that actually really contribute to the family as a whole. ‍ ‍ And, you know, in the last episode, I talked a lot about modeling for our kids, you know, what we want them to learn. And as far as the, you know, talking about asking important, I mean, having them ask questions and reciprocity, it's the same thing as to you have to model it, right? You have to model that for your children. And so let them hear you ask the cashier how her day's going, you know, even if it embarrasses them, or, you know, how you speak to the waiter or the waitress, let them see you notice the neighbor struggling with something in their yard. Like let them watch you thank their father for taking the car to get the oil changed or taking the trash out just simple things like that. You know, something that our mentors taught us that we implemented with our children right away. ‍ ‍ And this was I cannot emphasize the impact that this had on our children enough. But when somebody anybody, but particular an adult asked you a question, you look them in the eyes, you answered their question. And then you responded with a question, you ask them a question that was a game changer. I can't tell you how many bus drivers, teachers, coaches said, “I've never had a student asked me how my weekend was.” I've never once, when they get on the bus asked me, ”How am I doing today? How was my day?” ‍ ‍ And again, it's not for any like praise or anything like that. But my point is, it's so countercultural that it stands out. And it's so important to have your children learn from a young age what it looks like to look an adult in the eye and ask her a question. If they can't do that, when they're older, they'll never be able to advocate for themselves. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (6:08 - 6:21) ‍ ‍ I love all things countercultural. I think because a lot of times it does point back to Jesus, just even somebody experiencing that and having a wow factor. Ultimately, it's because the goodness of the Lord that they've just experienced. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (6:22 - 6:23) ‍ ‍ Absolutely, absolutely. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (6:23 - 6:38) ‍ ‍ So, do you have maybe a handful of habits in the home that you see as most essential for families so that everyone living there can enjoy and experience a joyful life together? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (6:40 - 9:00) ‍ ‍ Oh, I'm sure that we do. I think joy in a home is rarely accidental. It's cultivated, it's intentional. And I would just say, ask what brings your family joy, and then do more of that. It's most likely going to be different for everybody. And I can only speak for us. But what we loved, what we did, family dinners around the dinner table were non-negotiable. ‍ ‍ There were seasons around the dinner table, that part was negotiable, because there were seasons, like we had four boys playing football. And so, we would have practices five nights a week and four games on Saturday. And so, we would take the dinner to the ballpark, and we would literally sit there as a family, because I wasn't going to constantly never have family dinner just for the six months in the fall, or winter, or whatever. But we used dinner time to ask intentional questions, to laugh, to tell stories. We joked, we role-played, that was a big one for us. ‍ ‍ Just as a family, we would do that together. And probably the best thing that we did, and the thing that we still do, is we make things fun. We play games, really fun ones. Not that board games aren't fun, those are fun. But instead of, our kids are grown now, and for Easter, they will all come home, and I will have created games out of Easter eggs with all different types. Not going to find them, but just different types. I'll line up 20 Easter eggs with different colors, and then the first person, they get 10 seconds to look at it. And then the first person that can replicate it with those colors. Things like that, what was in the Easter eggs, questions, that kind of stuff. ‍ ‍ One year, we did an Easter egg hunt, where we tied two people together. One was on the back, and the one below was blindfolded. So, the one on the back had to tell them where to go, and what to do. Or we leg-tied their legs together. Just things to make it creative or fun. At Christmas, we always play reindeer games. It's my kids' favorite thing that we do. We've often gotten in inflatables, and we've done an Easter egg hunt that way, where everyone's wearing these huge inflatables, or we play a kickball game. And that was our Christmas card this last year. But just anything that wants to make them want to participate, right? Want to have them want to come home. So that's what I would say. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (9:01 - 9:18) ‍ ‍ I love it. And I don't remember the direct quote. It was from Bob Goff. But just saying how the more outlandish it is, or the more that you add variety or break from the norms, that's what they're going to remember. So, I'm sure your kids have incredible memories of all those holidays. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:19 - 9:19) ‍ ‍ Yes. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (9:20 - 9:38) ‍ ‍ I hope so, anyway. Oh, I'm sure that we'll have to steal some of those. But do you also have any stories to share for the payoff now that you're experiencing? Because when your children were little, you started them off with focusing on chores and hard work. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:38 - 9:39) ‍ ‍ How long do you have? ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (9:40 - 9:42) ‍ ‍ Give everything you got. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:42 - 14:13) ‍ ‍ Okay. Chores for children when they are young, it has proven to be the single biggest indicator of success when they're older. Hands down. Chores, specifically hard chores, they teach your kids responsibility. They teach them resourcefulness. It instills in them confidence. It instills in them capability. It instills in them competence. And I could give you example, after example, after example of how I've seen this payoff for my children. And I would say even in some ways, more importantly, how I have seen it negatively impact their friends, whose parents did not require them to work at home when they were younger. ‍ ‍ I remember my oldest son went off to college, and he called me after orientation and he's a man of few words, doesn't say thank you very often. And he said, "Mom, I have to tell you something." And I said, "What?" And he said, "You know, this is a pretty hard school to get into. And the people are competent. They're smart." He said, "I have never in my life seen a group of individuals that are so incapable of doing anything for themselves." He's like, "We're standing in line to get our, what's the ID, you know, their picture taken." He said, "Kid after kid on their phone. Hey, I don't, I don't have a credit card. I don't have a debit card. I don't know how to do this." He said, "I mean, and then he gets to college and it's like, they don't know how to get their oil changed. They don't know how to, you know, make their own doctor's appointment." And he thanked me. He's like, "I'm sorry. I resisted it when I was younger, but I just want to say thank you." ‍ ‍ And, you know, my daughter Libby called me one day and she said, "Mom, you know, you're not going to believe this." And I said, "What?" And so, she tells me of the story of her roommate, and her roommate had not left campus in six weeks. And so, she asked her, she said, "Hey, I thought you had a car here." And she said, "I do." And she said, "Well, why don't you ever leave?" And she said, "Well, I don't have gas." And she said, "Well, do you need money?" And she said, "Well, no, I don't need money." You know, she said, "I thought maybe you needed gas money." She said, "No." And she said, "Well, then what's going on?" She goes, "I've never put gas in my car." And that's not a chore, but that is a basic skill. Think about that, dropping your child off to college with a car and never having shown them or made them get their own gas. ‍ ‍ And then she called me a couple of weeks later. And she said to me, "Mom, did you know it's possible not to know how to hand wash dishes?" And I said, "Well, that's not possible. What are you talking about?" She said, "Well, she was just buying new dishes, plastic dishes. She was buying them because she didn't know how to wash them." And so, she said, "I said to her, hey, like you can just wash your dishes." She goes, "We don't have a dishwasher." And she said, "So I had to show her how to use soap and water to wash her own dishes." I mean, I could go on and on and on. ‍ ‍ I mean, I have another daughter that went off to college, and we were at the very first day moving them in and the mom was barking orders, telling everyone what to do. And after about 10 minutes, I was like, I went outside in the hallway, and I just sat down and removed myself. And her husband looks at me and he goes, "Wow, you learned quickly." And I said, "What does that mean?" And he said, "Get out of her way and let her do it." And I said, "Well, what about your daughter?" He goes, "Oh, she's never done anything for herself. She does everything for her." ‍ ‍ We got in the car to go home. And I just said to my husband, I said, "It's going to be really hard for our daughter because this girl's never done anything for themselves." I mean, I could give you story, after story, after story, but you know, when you require your children to put in hard work when they're really young, you know, they don't panic when life requires effort. Later on, they aren't entitled to comfort. They aren't entitled to other people doing things for them. You know, they know how to contribute, you know, wherever they land, whether it's in a dorm room, a house or, you know, college house or beyond, you know, my kids joke with me. They were like, "Mom, this can be a gift or a curse knowing how to do everything." And I said, "Well, what do you mean?" They're like, "Well, nobody else knows how to do everything. And they know that we do. So, they just want us to do it." And I was like, "Sorry about that. You know, sorry, you have to take care of it." ‍ ‍ But again, it's like, we are trying to train our kids up for independence, not to be dependent on us. And they go off to college or they graduate college, and they're already going to have first, like so many first being away from home, sleeping with a stranger in their same room, your dorm room, like so many things are going to have to navigate. And then do you want them to have to figure out how to do laundry, how to do dishes, how to I mean, no, it's like, wow, chores instill that. And then when they're really young. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (14:14 - 14:23) ‍ ‍ So, did you and your husband sit down and map out everything that you wanted them to know? Or how did you come up with these chores? And what are some more examples? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (14:24 - 16:09) ‍ ‍ Oh, yeah. And it's so interesting. It's so interesting, because I thought about this when I was thinking about our time together. But there's a book that we read. Well, there's a couple of books that we read that were pretty impactful. But one of them was called Cleaning House by Kate Wills Weima. And so, her 12 things, the idea of the book is to think about all the things you want to know your children know how to do and know how to do well when they leave home. And then you take one month and you just focus on that, that specific thing. And so, we sat down and her 12 things weren't our 12 things. Some of them were, but some of them were not. And so, we just did month after month after month of wanting them to know exactly, you know, how to do these things, you know, when we're grown, or when they're grown. And so we did that. ‍ ‍ But I mean, my husband, anytime he was working on the lawnmower, anytime he was doing anything in the yard, he gathered the boys around like, "Hey, boys, come on," and he was trying to show them or fixing the toilet or deal, you know, whatever it might have been. And I would do the same thing, whether it was in the garden, or whether it was in the kitchen, or whether it was outside with yard work, whatever, just to gather them around and involve them because they don't know. I mean, it's not their fault, but they won't know unless we show them. ‍ ‍ And one of the things I love is that the earlier you start showing them and training them up in these chores, and in this yard work, and in managing a home, the longer you have at home to train them up to do it well. But a lot of people think, oh, they're too young, or I'll just wait until they're older. Well, truth is, by the time they're 16, you really have very limited time with them. Very limited. And you're like, "Oh, when am I going to do that?" You know, they're at their sports, they're at school things, they're driving, they're with friends. And so, it's like, the earlier you can start the better. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (16:11 - 16:22) ‍ ‍ So good, even I'm thinking we could even involve our kids in what else have we not thought of that you want to learn how to do because it really is a gift to be trained and to take that time. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:23 - 16:32) ‍ ‍ I mean, and that kind of goes back to what we've talked about last time, you know, just being lifelong learners and curious, like, I don't know how to do this. But let's figure it out together. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (16:33 - 16:44) ‍ ‍ Well, and I'm going to also link to a previous episode, I did interview Kay on that book. But do you remember the other one that you also read related to it? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:44 - 20:24) ‍ ‍ Oh, yes, there was a season where there's actually two of them. But there is a season where my focus and my priority was riding entitlement from my children. I meet with moms all the time. And they're like, "My children are so spoiled." And I'm like, "Well, just I'm curious who spoils them." You know, and it really does start with us. It stems with us, even if it's the ones where moms will say, "Well, I mean, I don't give them that brand new thing, but their grandmother does." Well, technically, you're the gatekeeper of what comes in and out of your home, you can allow it or not allow it, you can say to them, "You know what, they don't need the newest iPad, they don't need the newest Lululemon or whatever. I want to, I want you to offer an experience with them, you know, something different, something like that, you can control that." But there was a season where that's all I saw. And I saw it in my children's hearts as well. And so, I read the book How to Raise Grateful Children in an Entitled World. And then I also read the book 7 by Jen Hatmaker long time ago, a lot of our philosophies have changed. But back in the day, long time ago, it was an entitlement, it said an experiment against a mutiny against excess. And so, it was another challenge we did, like we did the 12-month challenge from Kay's book, we did a seven-month challenge from her book, and we took seven areas where we have so much excess, and we stripped it down one month at a time. And I'm telling you, it was hard, not only because our children didn't want to do it, but it was hard for me, particularly the month of technology. I mean, you're talking no TV, no cell phone, no, I mean, other than phone calls, you know, no scrolling, none of that, no podcast, no, you couldn't use it just for a month just to have stillness, quiet. I mean, it was crazy hard. But then we noticed that the puzzles started coming out and coloring started coming out and creativity started coming out, you know, it requires 15 minutes of boredom, boredom for creativity to set in. And I would say the creativity did set in, and it was unbelievable. ‍ ‍ One month, we only allowed we got to choose, but we picked seven foods. That's all you could eat for one month. When you went out, that's all you could choose from. It was so hard. It was unbelievable. But what caught me so strongly was in her book, she starts out by saying she had three young children at home, and she was adopting two children from Ethiopia. And she had already been over to visit them twice. And they were literally starving to death. And you know, her heart just wanted them home. But because of all the logistics, she couldn't get them here yet. And she said one day she made fish sticks for her kids. And then she went up to go switch laundry. She came back down a few minutes later, and she saw all the fish in the trash can. And she was like, "What in the world?" So, she asked them, she said, "Did y'all not eat?" They're like, "We did." And she said, "Well, I just saw the fish sticks in the trash can." And they're like, "We didn't have ketchup." She's like, "You just threw away five pounds of fish, you know, whatever it was, because you didn't have ketchup. Yet we have two other children across the world that would give anything to have those fish sticks." And I was like, "I see that with my children. It's like, I don't want that. Or I don't care for that. Or that clothing, I'd rather something else." And so, for one month, they only could wear seven articles of clothing total. That's it. And it's crazy, because you think everyone's looking at you like, "Why are you wearing the same thing every single day?" No one even cares what you're doing. But it just changed your whole mindset and perspective. So, entitlement was a big one for us. And those two books were super helpful with that. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (20:25 - 20:28) ‍ ‍ Well, and even it sounds like a version of fasting. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (20:29 - 20:53) ‍ ‍ Oh, absolutely. I mean, we've told our kids all you know, since they were young, it doesn't matter what it is. Whatever you can't fast from owns you. It does, whatever that is. And so, some months the food was harder for others for some month, the clothing was harder, the girls, the clothing was harder. You know, the boys could care less for some month, it was a technology, but it's like whatever it is, it's got a stronghold in your heart. That's what owns you. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (20:54 - 23:23) ‍ ‍ And now a brief message from our sponsor. ‍ ‍ Friends, I'm excited to share with you today's sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Do you feel like you need a weekend away with your spouse and a chance to grow in your relationship together at the same time? WinShape Marriage is a fantastic ministry that provides weekend marriage retreats to help couples grow closer together in every season and stage of life. From pre-marital to parenting to the emptiness phase, there is an opportunity for you. WinShape Marriage is grounded on the belief that the strongest marriages are the ones that are nurtured, even when it seems things are going smoothly, so that they're stronger if they do hit a bump along their journey. ‍ ‍ These weekend retreats are hosted within the beautiful refuge of WinShape Retreat, perched in the mountains of Rome, Georgia, which is a short drive from Atlanta, Birmingham, and Chattanooga. While you're there, you will be well-fed, well-nurtured, and well-cared for. During your time away in this beautiful place, you and your spouse will learn from expert speakers and explore topics related to intimacy, overcoming challenges, improving communication, and more. ‍ ‍ I've stayed on site at WinShape before, and I can attest to their generosity, food, and content. You will be so grateful you went. To find an experience that's right for you and your spouse, head to their website, winshapemarriage.org/savvy. That's W-I-N-S-H-A-P-E marriage.org/savvy, S-A-V-V-Y. Thanks for your sponsorship. ‍ ‍ Another big topic is discipline, and that's something that parents are consistently interested in discussing, probably so that we can all balance rules and relationship. For any of the other parents who are also exhausted and maybe don't know what consequences to utilize as they seek to influence their children, what are some natural consequences and strategic discipline that you've offered before or that you can think of, especially with teens in the home? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (23:25 - 27:02) ‍ ‍ Yeah. Discipline basically means to disciple, and so we're training our kids up. We can't expect them just to know it on their own and intuitively think, that's not a wise choice, so I shouldn't make it. We're here because they need us. God entrusted them to us. But I love that you said consequences, because that's really the way I choose to look at discipline, because childhood is meant to be training ground for independence. ‍ ‍ Natural consequences, in my opinion, are the best way to do that, because I think consequences should connect directly to their choices, to my choices, because as we tell them, every single choice you make, every single one has a consequence, good or bad. You're going to have a consequence. You reap what you do, so therefore it is so important to acknowledge and recognize what you choose. Not my response to it, but to what you choose. ‍ ‍ You oversleep an alarm, which is, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers are known to do. You oversleep the alarm, you experience the discomfort of being late, whether that's missing the whole day because you as the mom are busy doing other things, or you're at work, or maybe you just missed that test the first period and you can then drive yourself to school, but you have to suffer that consequence. I'm not going to rescue you from that, or you know, you forget to bring in a project that you have worked on for days and days and days and days, and you forget to bring it in. Your grade will reflect that. That is a natural consequence. ‍ ‍ I had a son, I won't name him, but I had a son that chose to make the decision to cheat on a chemistry test, and the teacher called me and said, in high school, AP, and said, "You know, he's a great student, he made a poor choice, he didn't study, he's busy with football," and she said, "So I'm going to let him retake it," and I said, "No, he chose to make that decision. Please fail him like you would do any other student. I do not want him to ever, ever, ever consider doing this again," and she goes, "Well, it might be on his transcript." I said, "Okay, so be it, but I'm more interested in his long-term character and who he's becoming than I am about his AP chemistry score. I'm more interested in that," so the natural consequences, or to give him a zero on that. ‍ ‍ You know, you have the stud athlete as a son, and they forget their cleats or their jerseys at home. Guess what? They sit out from practice. They sit out from the game that afternoon. You know, it's not going to be the end of the world. Although we think it is, they think it is, it's not. So, I try to think of discipline, you know, not as punishing, but more as preparing them for adulthood, and you know, like we talked about the other day, I encourage moms not to bail, but to let them fail. I mean, it literally could seem like the end of the world to your child, but in the grand scheme of things, it has no bearing on their life later on, but many moms treat every little thing as if, you know, but I just try to tell moms when I meet with them, your child's employer will not care what they made on a middle school project. They won't. If they forgot it and got a C, your employer, their employer will not care that they made a C on that, or maybe even an F. They will not even care what your son or your daughter's high school GPA is. They will not care if you missed that baseball game, you missed that tournament, but they will care if you are hardworking, if you're responsible, if you take ownership for your actions, and I think natural consequences are the best way to teach all of those things. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (27:03 - 27:13) ‍ ‍ Well, and I would assume if we actually follow through, it's so painful in the moment, but it probably doesn't take many times to learn that lesson. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (27:14 - 29:29) ‍ ‍ No, not at all, and particularly if you have multiple children. I remember I was giving a talk on entitlement and how we rescue our children so easily, and I was setting up, and so I was getting things out of my car, taking things back and forth into this, you know, building where I was setting up, and as I get into the back seat, I see this project that my daughter literally had been working on for two weeks, and when she got out of the car that day, she left it, and I just thought, "Oh, here I am talking about this. I can either do it, nobody will know, take it up there, but then I was like, no, what does that teach her? Mom's going to bail me out every single time," and it was like, ah, it crushed me, crushed me, but I was more interested in what's going to happen for her long term, and another thing, if you have, if you have siblings, multiple children, they can learn from each other, not just from their own personal suffering. ‍ ‍ That same daughter, I'll never forget it. She came home from school. She was in the third grade, and my kids know, like, your schoolwork is on you. It is not on me. I have already been to kindergarten. I have already been to third grade. I've already been to high school. It is on you, and I email the teachers at the beginning of the year. I just want you to know that my third-grade daughter will be doing her entire projects, schoolwork, tests, grade, everything will be her, so please, please grade her on a third grade level, because what's happening is parents are doing their projects, parents are doing their papers, all of the things, and so it's like, wow, hers looks terrible. It is on par for a third grader, though, you know, so I email the teachers at the beginning, and I let them know that they are responsible. They can choose to teach them in any way that they want, discipline them in any way they want, and my daughter came home from school one day, and she had this big thing due the next day, and she was like, "Mom, oh my goodness, I left it in my desk. Would you please email her and see if I can come in early in the morning and get it and work on it," and I said, "Sure," and all my kids were like, "You will," and so I emailed, and I said, "Dear Mrs. Prilliman, she left her, you know, her assignment in her desk. Please feel free to punish her and discipline her in any way that you see fit," and she's like, "Mom," you know, she was so upset, but the other kids are like, "Mental note, I will never do that," you know, so they can learn, you know, from each other as well, so. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (29:30 - 29:50) ‍ ‍ That is a benefit of having siblings. I love hearing those stories. That helps it sink in, but Elizabeth, also, what can we be doing while our children are still in the home in hopes of them experiencing wise financial stewardship and freedom financially when they leave home? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (29:51 - 32:34) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I'm going to be very honest. David and I were not the best at this. It's not our greatest strength, that is for sure. It is not our natural genius, and with a family of 10, money was always tight. It really was, but we didn't want our kids to feel the weight of that. We didn't want them to feel that burden, but having said that, we did teach them delayed gratification. We did teach them saving before spending, distinguishing wants from needs. That's a big difference, working for what they desire or what they wanted, and they had to participate in paying for part or all of what they wanted, and that included travel sports. I mean, you know, there were times where we had five or six in travel sports. I mean, it's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, and so they either had to contribute financially if they could, depending on their age, or I remember one year, my son was young, and he wanted to do it, and it was going to be $2,800, and he was very gifted in baseball, and we wanted him to have this experience, but we knew that it was going to impact the entire family because all of our kids were still young. ‍ ‍ It wasn't like we could leave them at home. Everybody would be going every single weekend to all these different places, and so we said, "Okay, we're going to sit down as a family, and we're going to talk about this," and so they agreed. They wanted him to do it. They wanted to go to all these tournaments as a family, but so we decided that we would not eat out until that was paid off, the equivalent of that was paid off, and anytime anyone wanted to like stop at McDonald's or pick up something, we're like, "Remember, we're paying for Jack's baseball," and it was a family effort, and so, you know, I mean, it could be their homecoming dress if they want something extravagant or things that were above and beyond, you know, over a roof over their head or food on the table or clothes, you know, their basic needs, but just tried to model financially real life, and we all know that just because we want something doesn't mean we get it. It doesn't work that way, and when we give our kids everything they want, I would argue that we are setting them up and sometimes their potential future spouses up for failure because I don't know if you know this, but this generation is the first generation not to have as to make as much or have as much as their previous two generations before them. ‍ ‍ Typically, we make more than our parents and our grandparents, but this is the first one not to, and that's why grown adults are still living at home, so it's like, wow, if we can model this for our kids, you know, that, hey, just because you want that extra thing doesn't mean you get it. You got to work some extra jobs. You got to pick up some extra shifts, you know, maybe ask for some money chores at home, you know, that we would offer them, but we just tried to model it for real life, but like I said, it wasn't our greatest strength. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (32:35 - 32:41) ‍ ‍ Oh, I bet even more of a strength than you realize just hearing that example. I did not know that about the generation. That's fascinating. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (32:43 - 34:15) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I mean, one of my all-time favorite, there's a TED Talk. It's old. It's like a really short one, and I'm blanking on the lady's name, but she was in college, and her dad was an attorney, and he was very affluent. They had a lot of money, and back in the day, I think this was like in the 90s, 2000s maybe, there was this new pair of jeans that were out, and they were $120, and every other pair of jeans were like 50 bucks or something, you know, 40 bucks, and so she called her dad, who could easily afford it, and said, "Dad, oh my gosh, I need a pair of these jeans. Everybody," she was in college at University of Florida. "Everybody has these jeans. I want a pair," and he goes, "Okay, well, what are you going to do to go get the money?" She's like, "Dad, come on. I know you can give it to me." He said, "No, that's not the way life works," so she happened to be in the student center, and she saw one of those little advertisements, need a house cleaner, and she's like, "My parents made me do chores. I know how to clean a house," so she pulled the little number. She went to the lady's house. She cleaned her house, got the 120 bucks, and the lady said, "Well, when are you coming back," and she said, "Oh, no, no, I just needed one pair of jeans. Like, you know, I'm not coming back," and she said, "No, you did an amazing job." Well, this girl went on to start an organization while she was in college, a business. Now, it's like on a Fortune 500 something. I don't even know, but it's called Student Maid, M-A-I-D, and she had 500 employees by the time she was a senior, and she was cleaning apartments, houses, but her dad had given her the 120 bucks because he could to get the pair of jeans, so it's like, get out there and figure it out, and so I just love that story. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (34:16 - 34:34) ‍ ‍ Wow, I love that as well, and totally different topic, but when it comes to caring for our health and our bodies, if we truly believe our bodies are a temple for God, what are ways that we can model and encourage our children to live wisely in that way? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (34:35 - 37:07) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I'm glad you said model because really that's what it comes down to. I mean, if they see us beating ourselves up, not prioritizing sleep, not moving our bodies, not eating well, you know, that's what they're going to do. I mean, it's just history has proven itself. You can look at cultures. Those that move their bodies, sleep, rest on the Sabbath, I mean, they're a healthier culture, and so all of those things, you know, eating with balance, not obsession, resting on Sundays, I mean, even in the church world, that's almost unheard of to take the Sabbath off, and I would really say, particularly if you have daughters, not that it doesn't matter for sons as well, but it really impacts daughter is speaking respectfully about the body that God has given you. ‍ ‍ I sadly see so many women talk trash about their own looks or their own appearance, their body, if I could just fix this, I wish I didn't have this, and then they expect their daughters not to do the same, you know, and so when we say, "Oh, honey, you're beautiful," they're like, "Well, you don't think you are," you know, and they see right through it. I mean, I want my daughters to be strong, not skinny, right? I want them to be healthy, not appearance driven. I want them to know that mom got up and went to the gym every morning. Mom made sure she got outside and got sunshine and got on a walk, you know, culture already put so much pressure on these young girls and their size. Oh, my goodness, it like just breaks my heart, and so the last thing they need is for us to start, you know, for striving for unattainable goals, right, that put an expectation on them and their appearance. I mean, that's the last thing that they need, and so David and I have always tried to, well, I would say we tried very, very, very, very hard to compliment their character and their effort, but never their appearance. ‍ ‍ Most of the times when you hear parents applauding and just talking about how good looking someone is, how beautiful they are, it's nothing that they did to earn. I mean, you'll hear something. My son is so tall and big and strong, and I'm like, he did nothing. God gave him that, you know, and if you happen to have a very small son like I do, and if that's what you're praising over here, what does that speak to this child? Or, you know, oh my goodness, you're so beautiful, and so we try to focus on their heart, the internal, their, you know, the stewardship of what God has given them, but never appearance. It's more taking care of the body, and we believe the important part of that is the heart and the soul. So, we just want them to have the goal of honoring the life that God entrusted to them, the body that God entrusted to them. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (37:08 - 37:21) ‍ ‍ Such wise principles, and then when we think about spiritual life as well, what wisdom can you share for parents who want to help their children cultivate a flourishing spiritual life? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (37:22 - 39:19) ‍ ‍ Well, one prayer for our children is that they would each have a faith of their own, you know, not one that's handed down, not a formula, you know, but a relationship with Jesus, and so with that in mind, we tried to focus on the heart of who Jesus is and not the rules of God. You know, we never wanted them to view God as this like scary judge, you know, with his gavel, like handing down these judgments, but a God who genuinely loves them regardless of what they do, and so we wanted that to be their own unique personal relationship, not one that looks like ours, acts like ours, you know, it's like this cookie cutter, so we encourage them just to pray naturally, not formula, you know, like formally, but we talked about God in a real casual way, like in our coming and our going, not this big Sunday conversation, you know, you have at the dinner table after church, but we wanted them to see our own dependence on God, which was every single day, and we wanted to create space for them to have their own unique personal faith, and one thing I've learned is that faith cannot be manufactured, but you can cultivate the soil where it grows, and I'll just say this really quick, in an effort to have them have a faith of their own, it was so neat, they all went to the same church, but their faith looks so differently, different from their siblings, and there was a time we had all four of them at one college in Athens, and so they're all there, and we were visiting, and I said, "Hey, well, you know, we'll go to church tomorrow morning, you know, with y'all," and they all kind of looked at me like I had three heads, and I thought, "Well, don't y'all go to church, please tell me I'll go to church," you know, that's not what they meant, they all four went to completely different churches, wow, I was mind blown, I was like, "This is the most ecumenical family I've ever met," like I was like, I had no idea that that is how different the relationships with the Lord are, as for what they were seeking in a church, and I was just so grateful for that. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (39:20 - 40:17) ‍ ‍ When was the first time you listened to an episode of The Savvy Sauce? How did you hear about our podcast? Did a friend share it with you? Will you be willing to be that friend now and text five other friends or post on your socials anything about The Savvy Sauce that you love? If you share your favorite episodes, that is how we continue to expand our reach and get the good news of Jesus Christ in more ears across the world, so we need your help. Another way to help us grow is to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. Each of these suggestions will cost you less than a minute, but it will be a great benefit to us. Thank you so much for being willing to be generous with your time and share, we appreciate you. ‍ ‍ One other practical thing too, do you have just any tech tips, especially because you've raised so many teens already? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (40:17 - 42:06) ‍ ‍ Oh, tech tips. You know, we had this big charging station in our kitchen, and so the kids had to put their phones there at night, and it would charge like all of them, and so we could see if the phone was not up at night, and there were some serious consequences if they broke those rules. I remember one time my daughter, after we went to bed, she snuck back downstairs and got her phone and brought it upstairs, and anyway, I kept getting these notifications come through on my iPad, and I was like, "What in the world?" Well, I didn't even realize the clouds, or it's over my head, but whatever reason, hers was beeping on mine, and so we went in there, and she had her phone under her pillow. She was texting somebody, and so when she got home from school that next day, her door was off of the hinges, and she was, you know, as a middle school girl, her privacy was so important. I was like, "You can change in the bathroom, you know, but you have shown us that you cannot earn privacy right now. You don't make the choices with it," but it is really hard. ‍ ‍ I think a lot of people, their natural inclination is just to remove it all from them, but I hesitate to encourage anyone to do that, because the truth of the matter is the world we live in is full of technology, and if you just completely say you can't have it, and the next thing you know they're 18, they go off to college or whatever the age is, and you give it to them, they haven't been in the home where you've been training them up how to manage your time with it, put, you know, limits on the time, how much you can spend on it, that kind of thing, and so it's like you're never going to outsmart your children in technology. They're already smarter than you are, but it's like how can you help them with the time management, you know, letting, talking with them about like what they're putting before their eyes on the technology, that kind of thing. The same goes for TV. You know, we would never watch something in front of our children that we would want them to think is normal ever, you know, and so it's like it's not, we don't want to normalize that. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (42:07 - 42:33) ‍ ‍ That's good, and really I'm hearing this theme, a key ingredient for everything we've discussed so far is actually a fruit of the spirit, self-control. So, knowing that discipline and self-control are actually going to lead to freedom, how can we help our children grow up to live an appropriately disciplined life? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (42:34 - 45:53) ‍ ‍ Yeah, my dad used to say this thing all the time. He would say, "The slave to the compass has the freedom of the seas. The rest must sail close to the shore," and it's so true. I mean, we have, if you want to do that, you have to come under the authority of the boat. In other words, you can't just do whatever you want on a boat and be able to sail the whole ocean. It doesn't work that way. You have to follow the captain's orders, and you have to follow the mechanisms that make the ship move, right? And so, it's like, but if you do that, if you master that, if you're a slave to the compass, to the sails, so the way the boat works, you can have the freedom of the seas. And the same is true of discipline and of self-control, right? We must exhibit that in order to have freedom. ‍ ‍ And so, when our children exhibited obedience and discipline and self-control, we then gave them more freedom, you know, more responsibilities. And then when they didn't follow instructions, like my daughter with the cell phone, you know, they didn't do what was expected of them. We pulled in the reins a little bit. Dave Ramsey, years and years ago, before I, my children were older, he shared the analogy of the rope, and I loved it because he said, you know, the more your children exhibit responsibility, making the right choices, they're being obedient, you let out that rope. And that one end, it's almost like you've got a rope around their waist. You're letting it out, letting them experience more independence. But then the second that they don't do that, you kind of rein it back in. If they make a poor choice, they stay out past their curfew, whatever it might be, you pull it back in. And so, it's a very important analogy for his family. ‍ ‍ So important though, when his oldest daughter went off to college, Rachel, you know, she goes off to college, he wraps up this beautiful gift, and it was a rope. And it was the rope with the round. And he said, and it had, he tied things on it, like she went to Tennessee, I think. So, it had like an orange thing on it. And then it had the colors of her high school and all these things that represented her life. And he said, "Hey, for 18 years, I've been holding on to this end of the rope. But now it's time I let it go. And I'm giving it to you; you're going to manage that rope all on your own." And so, it meant the world to her because they knew how important and so she put it on her doorknob in her dorm room. And every time she left and entered, she saw that, you know, that rope realizing that she was responsible for how far she let that thing out and how far she pulled that in. And so, discipline, self-discipline is huge. ‍ ‍ You know, at the end of the day, we just wanted to show our children that discipline and self-control, it isn't a restriction, right? It's the pathway to freedom. And I've got to tell you; my kids are more disciplined than I am. I mean, my two oldest sons are 26 and 25. And they set timers on their phone. And so, they literally can only and each other has the passcode so they can't even override it. They can only be on their phone for three hours a day at all for anything. And they do it during the hours where they're at work, so that they know they can't be on it anyway. I mean, it's already self-limiting. And it's like they know that this is a temptation, they don't want to waste that time. And so, and when you see a child when you train up a child and discipline, it's amazing how it spills over into other areas. You know, they both are very disciplined with how many books they read, how far they run every day. Like, I mean, they're very disciplined individuals, because I think it's contagious. You know, that just self-discipline just kind of permeates all the other areas of your life as well. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (45:54 - 46:06) ‍ ‍ And that is so encouraging, because I guess I just envision like, we're planting seeds, and we've gotten to hear a few of the seeds that you planted. And now it grows up even bigger than you could have probably ever asked or imagined. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:06 - 46:22) ‍ ‍ Oh, yeah. I mean, sometimes their discipline frustrates me, because like, I'll need to talk to them, and they're on like a 23-mile run, and they can't talk or, you know, like, I'll want to call them. And they're like, "Mom, I can't use my phone right now." And I'm like, "Come on," you know, but they are, they are disciplined. I just drives me crazy sometimes. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (46:23 - 46:36) ‍ ‍ Oh, I love that so much. So, Elizabeth, as parents, what else can we do now to help our kids eventually reach maturity and independence as adults? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:37 - 51:07) ‍ ‍ Yeah, I mean, again, I can't say it enough. Childhood is meant to be the training ground for independence. So, every single day, they are training you or you are training them. And it's like, are you training them up for independence, maturity? Are you training them up to be dependent upon you? Are you teaching them that your proximity is what keeps them safe? And it's like, okay, so we're going to make these choices when they're young, might be harder on us, because I have mom say to me all the time, you know, I mean, it's just easier when I do it. And I'm like, it is, or they're like, they'll never do a job as good as I do. They won't. But you know what, it's like, it doesn't matter. It's not about what's easy on us. It's what's best for them for the long run. ‍ ‍ So, you know, goes back to that book we talked about, but you can really just think of Kay's book, you can really think about anything that you want to know that you want them to know how to do well and reach maturity and master whatever that is. And, you know, most people, not intentionally, but subconsciously think, oh my goodness, by magic at the stroke of their 18th birthday at midnight, you know, they're just going to know how to do these things. And they don't, they don't know how to do these things. ‍ ‍ I mean, my oldest son went off to college and two weeks after he went off, I came back home and I was at Target. And I ran into this lady and who'd also dropped off her daughter. And she said to me, "How are you doing?" And I said, "I'm fine. How are you?" She goes, "I mean, are you, are you managing?" And I'm like, "Managing what?" And she's like, "Without your son." And I said, "Yes," she would help my son. She goes, "Well, I have to ask you how many times have you been up there?" And I said, "Since two weeks ago when we dropped them off?" And she said, "Yeah." And I said, "I haven't should I ask how many times you've been up there?" She was well, one time she called me because I forgot to teach her how to use her diabetic medicine. So, I had to drive and teach her how to do that. And I thought, okay, in my mind, I'm thinking that was kind of a really big deal to not know how to do. And then she said, "And then another time she called me, and she chewed me out because I didn't pack laundry detergent for her." And I thought, "Oh, you packed her stuff. She didn't do that." And she said, "Well, I mean, you know, I just was doing it for her." And she goes, "I had to tell her I did pack laundry detergent." And she said, "No, the only thing I've seen you pack are those little round things that I've seen you put in the dishwasher." Oh, no, this is what she tells me. And I was like that she's seeing you put in the dishwasher. She goes, "I had to tell her that laundry pods are made too. So, I had to go up and teach her how to do laundry." And then the third time I just missed her. So, I went up there, but I thought, wow, like we are training them to fly from us. ‍ ‍ You know, that is the ultimate goal is that they are independent, that they can leave us. But the hardest thing about it is accepting that success. If you do it well, because that's the last thing you want to do is have your child not need you anymore. Moms thrive on being needed, particularly by our children. But honestly, that is what God gave them to us for so that they can go out and launch onto their own. So, we just started training them up as soon as we possibly could on little things like solving problems or managing their own schedules. That's a big one. You shouldn't be asking them what homework do you have? What tests do you have? What paper do you have? How can I help you? Don't do that tonight because you've got to do your homework. Let them manage their own schedules. Let them set their own alarms. If they oversleep it, there is a natural consequence. So, they won't keep doing that anymore. ‍ ‍ And I mean, I had a daughter that slept through every alarm we ever set. It didn't matter how loud it was. So, I was not going to give into that. So, we literally bought an alarm that was a round ball. And on this round ball, it would be on the floor. And when her alarm would go off, it would roll away from her bed. And so, she couldn't not turn it off. She'd have to get out of bed to turn it off. And so, I mean, there's ways you can do it if you really want to. But, you know, training them up how to advocate for themselves. Most children don't know how to advocate for themselves, which is why the most recent stat right now on Fox News, I saw it two months ago, 29% of college graduates are taking their parents with them to their job interviews. 29% are taking their parents with them. They're 23 years old. Think about that. Let that set in. You know, teaching them how to shop for, prepare, cook meals. You have conflict, healthy conflict. Recover from mistakes. You know, try again. I mean, our job, I've already said it, but our job is not to make their lives easy. And it's not to do what's easy for us. It's to make them capable. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (51:10 - 51:38) ‍ ‍ Wow. You have been so inspirational to learn from. And one more thing on that. When, if we're very encouraged, we're going to be more consistent and do this thoughtfully, intentionally. When we meet resistance from our kids, what encouragement do you have for us, regardless of their age, whether they're whining about it when they're younger, throwing a temper tantrum or giving attitude? What would you encourage us with there? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (51:38 - 54:03) ‍ ‍ Well, it's not very encouraging, but you will meet resistance. You will. I mean, why would they ever, I mean, my kids had to make their own lunches starting in kindergarten. And my daughter Walker would come home every day and I'm the only one that has to make their own lunch, you know? And I'm like, "You know what? You get to put in your lunch, whatever you want. Every other child has to eat what their mom makes them eat." You know, I'm like trying to show her these things, but the truth is you are going to be met with resistance. But if it ever crosses that line into disrespect, that first and foremost needs to be handled first, without a doubt. There's never a reason for disrespect. And if you allow that disrespect in your sons, they will grow up to be men that disrespect their wives. If you allow that in your children, they will grow up to be employees that disrespect their employees. And on, you know, you reap what you sow. So, it's like, I am not going to allow that. ‍ ‍ Having said that we make our chores on the whiteboard so that there is no nagging, there is no reminding, there is none of that. And so, we put it on there. They know it has to be done. And if it's not done, they don't sit down for dinner. And then once our kids hit middle school and they had practices after school and high school practices and things like that, they couldn't do it before dinner because they didn't get home until dinner or sometimes afterwards. So, it had to be done before they went to bed. And if they didn't, I didn't nag, I didn't get upset with them. But the next day when they walked up and saw the whiteboard, their second chore was incredibly time consuming and incredibly hard because they did not do the chore from the day before. Because again, we're modeling real life. Just because you had a full day doesn't mean you get to walk in the door, kick off your heels at night and just assert all your responsibilities. Not at all. You have to still do it. And so, it's like you've chosen to play these sports. You've chosen to do these travel things and you're still a part of this family. So, it's like encourage them in a way to do these things that doesn't impact you. Like you don't want to get into this, you know, match back and forth trying to explain to them why it's important. It's just a rule. It is what it is. That's why I like it on the whiteboard. There's no, there's no having to nag, having to check, but just don't allow the disrespect is the big thing when they kind of meet you with resistance. But again, what child's going to be like, "Sure, mom, I want to take on this." They're not going to, you know, I, like I said, my oldest, he did not enjoy doing all the things that he had to do. And there came a day he went to college and he was so grateful, so grateful that he knew how to do those things. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (54:04 - 54:07) ‍ ‍ So, we're going for that long term. Thank you. ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (54:07 - 54:09) ‍ ‍ Always, always long game parenting. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (54:10 - 54:19) ‍ ‍ Well, Elizabeth, you have given us so much in these weeks together, but where would you like to direct us to continue learning from you after this chat? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (54:19 - 54:49) ‍ ‍ Well, if women live in Atlanta, we do have the exchange, which is local and coming, and I would love for them to come to that. We also have our podcasts on purpose with, which encourages women to live on purpose and with intention. You know, I just absolutely love connecting with women that want to live wholeheartedly this one beautiful life we've been given. So, I'd love for them to reach out to me on Instagram. I've got my personal handle as Octomama. I also have the exchange US and long game parenting. ‍ ‍ Laura Dugger: (54:50 - 55:09) ‍ ‍ Wonderful. We will provide all of those links in the show notes for today's episode. And I just have one more question for you. We are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, Elizabeth, what is your savvy sauce? ‍ ‍ Elizabeth Pehrson: (55:09 - 56:01) ‍ ‍ My savvy sauce today, based on what we've spoken about, I would say to the women listening to the very best of your ability, it's going to be difficult. It is not going to be easy, but to the very best of your ability, stop over functioning for your children. And over functioning is simply doing for your children what they can and should be doing for themselves. And my favorite mantra that I tell moms all the time is just because you can do provide or give doesn't mean you should just because you can do provide or give, it doesn't mean you should. So, if you want to have grateful children, do less, not more. You want to raise children that have a respect for other people, do less, not more. If you want to raise de

Description:Nine years is a long time between visits. When Amena Brown was last on the show in 2017, she was a spoken word poet booked solid inside white evangelicalism, doing one poem at a time between worship songs and quietly wondering how much longer she could keep walking back in. She came back to tell Jen what happened next.This conversation traces the whole arc: the green rooms where she was told her grief was divisive, the healing circle where a Black woman looked her dead in the face and said you have to get out, the three months of panic attacks that followed, and the call from Tracee Ellis Ross that showed her a bigger world was possible. It is a story about leaving before you have a new boat built.Then there is the book. Never Tell a Black Girl How to Black Girl started as a poetry collection and became something wilder, funnier, and more free. Amena talks about Black Girl as a verb, the essay she cried writing, her list of qualifying reasons for a Black Woman Day Off, and why the audiobook has a live Black girl audience hollering back. Bring your cheekbones. They are going to be sore.Thought-provoking Quotes:You can't keep re-entering that space. Every time you re-enter, it re-traumatizes you. (Amena Brown, quoting the leader of a Black women's healing circle)Whatever a Black girl does is Black girling. If I'm a Black girl who likes to fry chicken, then that's Black girling. If I'm a Black girl who likes to play the cello, that is Black girling. (Amena Brown)Save nothing for the swim home. (Jen Hatmaker, quoting literary agent Margaret Riley King)I love about Cardi B that she gives me permission to be mad as hell. (Amena Brown)Joy is a part of how we survive, it's a part of how we resist. (Amena Brown)Resources Mentioned in This Episode:Never Tell a Black Girl How to Black Girl by Amena Brown (Tiny Reparations Books)How to Fix a Broken Record by Amena BrownAwake by Jen HatmakerBookshop.org, plus your local indie and Black-owned bookstores and your libraryThe Together Live tour with Glennon Doyle and Abby WambachPATTERN Beauty and Tracee Ellis RossLemonade by BeyonceNew Blue Sun by Andre 3000Austin Channing Brown, Jeff Chu, and Sarah BesseyGuest's Links:Website - https://www.amenabrown.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amenabee/ Podcast - https://www.amenabrown.com/her-with-amena-brownConnect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmakerThe For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Description:Jen is coming to you from the last two days of Me Camp in Canada, eyeballs on the lake, four weeks into having the volume turned down on every channel. And when the static quiets, the truer things rise up. In this me-to-you episode, Jen kicks off August's theme of honesty with the idea at the spine of the whole month: there is the thing we say, and then there is a truer sentence sitting an inch underneath it. And usually one inch under that.Jen shares what her own silence cost in the last years of her marriage, names the difference between truth-telling and truth-throwing, and offers the gentlest possible place to begin: one true sentence, one page, just between you and you.Thought-provoking Quotes:“Staying quiet only masquerades as keeping the peace. We are genuinely just deferring the bill.”“It doesn't disappear just because we're not willing to look it in the eye. It just goes underground, but it charges interest.”“So here I am thinking I'm protecting this marriage, protecting the kids — and I was actually helping to sink the ship.”“My body was absolutely telling the truth. Maybe my mouth wasn't, but my body was.”“There is a difference between truth telling and truth throwing.”“Honest is not the same thing as "unfiltered." Honest and kind are not opposites.”“You are not too much, and your real self is not an inconvenience.”Resources Mentioned in This Episode:The AWAKE Collective, the monthly live gathering where this conversation started, included with a paid subscription to Jen's Substack: jenhatmaker.substack.comLetters from the Middle, Jen's Substack, where the honesty conversation continues all month: jenhatmaker.substack.comTell us your story — head to jenhatmaker.com/podcast, look for the Send Voicemail button, and tell Jen the quiet thing you finally said out loud (or the one you're working up to).Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/Jen's Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmakerThe For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what a new series on For the Love with Jen Hatmaker is all about, the Sacred Yes. It's choosing delight, rest, and pleasure on purpose because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. In this episode, Jen sits down with writer, poet, and community-builder Jess Janz to talk about the social experiment that grew into the phenomenon known as Dinner With Strangers. What began as a gathering around a table with a few curious questions has now welcomed more than a thousand people into conversations that move past small talk and into the territory we all secretly long for: belonging.Come find your Sacred Yes with Jen. Follow and listen to For the Love with Jen Hatmaker wherever you get your podcasts.

Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what a new series on For the Love with Jen Hatmaker is all about, the Sacred Yes. It's choosing delight, rest, and pleasure on purpose because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. Come find your Sacred Yes with Jen. Follow and listen to For the Love wherever you get your podcasts.

Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what a new series on For the Love with Jen Hatmaker is all about, the Sacred Yes. It's choosing delight, rest, and pleasure on purpose because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. Come find your Sacred Yes with Jen. Follow and listen to For the Love wherever you get your podcasts.

Some conservative Christians have gotten upset about the onetime evangelical influencer Jen Hatfield's recent denial of a literal hell. You can find her Substack where she talks about this here: https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/p/there-you-areIn this video, I share my thoughts about this denial and my own thoughts on hell.Please consider supporting me at http://www.patreon.com/hopesreasonVisit me at https://www.stephenjbedard.comFollow me on http://www.x.com/SJBedard and http://www.instagram.com/SJBedard and http://www.facebook.com/hopesreason

Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what a new series on For the Love with Jen Hatmaker is all about, the Sacred Yes. It's choosing delight, rest, and pleasure on purpose because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. Come find your Sacred Yes with Jen. Follow and listen to For the Love with Jen Hatmaker wherever you get your podcasts.

This week on Conversations That Matter, Jon Harris examines the biggest stories shaping America, the church, and the wider world.Topics include:• The controversy surrounding The Odyssey and what it says about Western civilization. • Trump's response to the escalating conflict with Iran. • Claims about a U.S.-Israel military "merger" and why they are misleading. • The White House defending Christian athletes. • Jen Hatmaker's rejection of the doctrine of hell. • Michelle Leslie's critique of Jen Wilkin. • Steve Lawson, Justin Peters, and biblical discernment. • The Paige Patterson lawsuit update. • An extended analysis of the Rick Appleton case and what it could mean for conservative Presbyterianism.Join us each weekend as we review the biggest national, international, and evangelical stories from a distinctly Christian perspective.00:00 Introduction00:30 The Odyssey controversy and Western civilization03:30 The Federalist vs. Gospel Coalition on The Odyssey06:00 Data centers, AI, and conservative priorities09:40 Trump's Iran strategy and Middle East update13:10 Martin Skold interview preview15:00 Tucker Carlson and the U.S.-Israel military claim18:00 White House defends Christian WNBA player19:00 Jen Hatmaker rejects hell20:30 Michelle Leslie on Jen Wilkin23:00 Steve Lawson, Justin Peters, and James 127:30 Paige Patterson lawsuit resolved29:00 Rick Appleton case explained39:00 Social media, biblical patriarchy, and Presbyterian controversySupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/conversations-that-matter8971/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Top headlines for Friday, July 24, 2026Texas's Senate race sees both candidates stumble as polls show a dead heat. Six Indian pastors begin five-year prison sentences under anti-conversion laws. Author Jen Hatmaker reveals she no longer believes in Hell. Plus, podcast host Jennifer Welch doubles down on her controversial attacks against Christian homeschooling.0:11 Talarico, Paxton face tough public relations moments amid race1:03 Jennifer Welch doubles down on homeschooling criticism1:54 Pastors imprisoned on false charges of 'conversion'2:56 Jen Hatmaker no longer believes in Hell3:47 4 highlights from Tuesday's Arizona primaries4:33 Pastor who sued Abyssinian Baptist starts her own church5:33 Cardinal Sarah accuses EU of pushing abortion, LGBT on Africa6:24 Many young people want to get married but challenges stand in waySubscribe to this PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle PodcastsOvercastFollow Us on Social Media@ChristianPost on TwitterChristian Post on Facebook@ChristianPostIntl on InstagramSubscribe on YouTubeGet the Edifi AppDownload for iPhoneDownload for AndroidSubscribe to Our NewsletterSubscribe to the Freedom Post, delivered every Monday and ThursdayClick here to get the top headlines delivered to your inbox every morning!Links to the NewsTalarico, Paxton face tough public relations moments amid race | PoliticsPastors imprisoned on false charges of 'conversion' Many young people want to get married but challenges stand in way | Living Jen Hatmaker no longer believes in Hell | U.S.4 highlights from Tuesday's Arizona primaries | PoliticsPastor who sued Abyssinian Baptist starts her own church | Church & MinistriesCardinal Sarah Accuses EU of pushing abortion, LGBT on Africa | WorldJennifer Welch doubles down on homeschooling criticism | Podcast

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Check out the full episode: https://greatness.lnk.to/1113DM Author Jen Hatmaker contends boys face equally damaging narratives as girls, recalling her sons' heartbreak dispelling gender stereotypes. She feels some tropes are evolving with more identity freedom, though few role models existed addressing men's struggles when young. Hatmaker highlights the ripple effect from Lewis opening up about sexual trauma, empowering other men to share unresolved pain too. She advocates basic humanity of listening without judgment so suffering individuals can release instead of imploding trauma. Hatmaker argues solving pent-up rage starts small through courageous vulnerability. By going first, influencers instantiate cascades of healing as people extend grace, seek counseling and halt generational damage. Overall, she uplifts shared humanity over suffering alone and encouraging anyone's first steps toward reconciliation. Sign up for the Greatness newsletter! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Description:In this deeply personal solo episode, Jen takes us to the place where this journey began: Me Camp. What started as a spontaneous trip to coastal Maine during one of the hardest seasons of her life became an annual practice of restoration, adventure, healing, and joy. Six summers later, as she arrives in a tiny lakeside town in Ontario for another month of Me Camp, she's reflecting on the small word that changed everything: yes.This month, we'll be exploring what it means to reclaim joy, embrace rest, honor our desires, and create lives that are not just productive—but deeply satisfying.It's time to discover your own Sacred Yes.Thought-provoking Quotes:“MeCamp changed my life. I'm not being demonstrative or exaggerating. It's where the ‘Sacred Yes' got its first footing.” – Jen Hatmaker“I keep my heart open to whatever's possible. Who could I meet? What could I experience? Where could I go? What can I see? And when people are like, hey, do you wanna…? The answer's yes. And so that sacred yes got sort of imprinted on my heart.” – Jen Hatmaker“I feel the weight of irresponsible yeses that should have been no's.” – Jen HatmakerResources Mentioned in This Episode:MeCamp 2026 Announcement -Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4xzBo5nJen's Substack - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/Join the Awake Collective - https://jenhatmaker.substack.com/p/the-awake-collectiveJen Hatmaker Book Club - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-clubConnect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmakerThe For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Midlife can shatter the life you planned—and hand you a better one. At 46, Jen Hatmaker, author of 15 books and five New York Times bestsellers, discovered her 26-year marriage was over. What followed became "Awake," an instant NYT-bestseller and a blueprint for reinvention. Jen has been on Katie's dream guest list since day one, and this conversation did not disappoint. If you've ever felt like your best years are behind you, this episode will change that. We explore why midlife is the right time to stop hustling past your grief, how your body (not your brain) holds the key to healing, and how one bold solo trip rewired Jen's life. Listen in and start planning your own midlife “Me Camp,” beauties. FOLLOW A CERTAIN AGE ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ GET INBOX INSPO: Sign up for our newsletter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AGE BOLDLY⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We share new episodes, giveaways, links we love, and midlife resources Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Recorded live from the Oregon coast on the final day of MeCamp, this special two-part conversation between Jen and her partner Tyler Merritt is the perfect blend of hilarity, heart, and honesty. In Part 1, Jen and Tyler share stories from their MeCamp adventures — including a whale-watching excursion that got a little too close for comfort, and a near-death boat ride they'll never forget. They also reflect on the power of personal storytelling, how vulnerability has shown up in their lives and work, and why telling the truth (even when it's awkward) can be both healing and hilarious. Discussing the impact of Tyler's viral video "Before You Call the Cops" to Jen's reflections on her upcoming book "Awake," this conversation reveals the transformative potential of embracing vulnerability. Tune in to discover how opening up about our most personal stories can not only heal us but also inspire others to see themselves in our narratives. Tyler talks about the most awkward moment he's ever had because he opted to be vulnerable and honest instead of protecting his pride He and Jen discuss the hardest truths they've ever had to tell themselves And Tyler goes back into the annals to reveal his most embarrassing moment as a performer on stage Thought-provoking Quotes: “The spirit of MeCamp almost got us killed.”– Tyler Merritt “One of the hardest things that I had to deal with telling myself is that it's okay to forgive yourself and to move forward. You deserve things in life, although maybe you haven't been the best person at times.”– Tyler Merritt “I'm aware that it's not every day that most people see a six foot two black man with dreadlocks crying in real life. I have never regretted a single moment in my life of being transparent about how I feel emotionally with somebody. Vulnerability has never kicked back at me in a negative way.”– Tyler Merritt “I think vulnerability begets vulnerability. Because I was saying who I am and I was allowing myself to be open to the world, the world was willing to take that. What it did within the black community is it allowed a lot of other black people to begin making their own videos going, before you call the cops, I just want you to know this about me. So it opened up a door of vulnerability that really allowed that to kind of echo.”– Tyler Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest's Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:There are some books you read with your whole body. Strangers by Belle Burden is one of those books. Belle was married for twenty-one years. Three kids. A life that, from the outside, looked like everything you're supposed to want. Then on the seventh day of the pandemic lockdown, a stranger left her a voicemail — and by the next morning, the man she thought she knew was gone. Belle is a former Davis Polk attorney, a descendant of John Jay, and the granddaughter of legendary socialite Babe Paley. She was raised in a world where women simply did not speak publicly about their husbands' transgressions. So she broke the chain — first in a viral New York Times Modern Love essay, then in her New York Times bestselling memoir. And now she's here with Jen. This conversation is everything. The night it all fell apart — the dinner, the mopped floor, the voicemail, the packed bag by morning. The myths we hand women about divorce and who gets to carry the shame. The money piece that nobody wants to talk about but everybody needs to hear. And the strange, hard-won truth that the most devastating thing that ever happened to you might also be the thing that finally gives you back to yourself. Jen and Belle are in an accidental sisterhood — two women who wrote the book about the thing that broke them, because it turns out a million other women are walking around carrying the same broken thing in silence. This one is for every woman who has ever stood in a kitchen in her pajama pants and felt the floor shift beneath her feet. If you can't yet imagine what's waiting for you on the other side of the hardest thing, let Belle and Jen show you. Thought-provoking Quotes:   Resources Mentioned in This Episode:   Guest's Links: Website - https://www.belleburden.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/belleburden/   Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker   The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. ★ “It's really connected me to humanity to hear people's very private stories, their very private feelings, and that they feel safe sharing them with me because I think I was so raw and open and honest about my own.”-- Belle Burden★ “Writing about pain is really something that we really don't see enough of.” -- Belle Burden★ “It took me years to let go of the matronly woman in the pajama pants who he wasn't attracted to anymore and to replace her image in my mind with something else.” -- Belle Burden★ “People really want to find the red flags because they want to know that this ending was predictable. I think that makes people feel safer because this is a scary story. It feels totally impossible and then also very possible. I think people really want those red flags.” -- Belle Burden★ “I never could have thought that that horrible thing could happen to me and I could end up in a place where I'm happier, where my life is more interesting, that I feel so much more myself and it's very hard to envision that when you're in it.”-- Belle Burden★ “I think when things kind of fall apart, you just are forced to become more relaxed because nothing is going as you intended it to go.” -- Belle Burden➢ Strangers: A Memoir of Marriage by Belle Burden - https://amzn.to/42M5rbQ➢ New York Times piece | Was I Married to a Stranger? - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/style/modern-love-married-to-a-stranger.html➢ TIME | The Danger of Surrendering Your Financial Independence in a Relationship - https://time.com/article/2026/04/17/the-danger-of-surrendering-your-financial-independence-in-a-relationship/➢ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4wC9N2Z➢ Buy Strangers from your local bookstore or McNally Jackson bookstore - https://mcnallyjackson.com/book/9780593733318 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Belle Burden's divorce memoir, Strangers, is the book everyone's talking about! She's a Harvard-educated lawyer, a Vanderbilt heiress, a hedge fund husband, and a life that unraveled with a single voicemail. But why are we so obsessed with this woman's problems?On this Bite-Sized Babes, I break down the instant #1 NYT bestseller with some hot takes: the transformation the book promises vs. what it actually delivers, the anger that never quite shows up on the page, and the uncomfortable question of whose pain we choose to center in literary culture. Plus, a fascinating comparison to Jen Hatmaker's Awake, the memoir telling nearly the same story with a completely different energy.Come for the book review, stay for the bigger conversation about women, wealth, divorce, and who gets to fall apart in public.Buy Belle Burden's "Strangers"Connect with us and suggest a great memoir!Follow us on instagram! @babesinbooklandpod Xx, Alex Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of The Currently Reading Podcast is a great place to jump in if you love honest book recommendations and spoiler-free bookish conversation. Meredith and Kaytee help two listeners take control of their overflowing TBR piles with personalized picks. They also get into everything they have been reading lately, from literary fiction like Martyr! by Kaveh Akbar to the cozy fantasy of T. Kingfisher, and they talk honestly about how to keep your reading life calm instead of overwhelming. On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: needing some reading sanity and two Kindles? Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: Kaytee and Meredith boss some listeners' TBRs Before We Go: our new segment featuring a bookish friend post and Meredith brings a book she may DNF Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site). . . .   1:23 - Bookish Moments of the Week 3:16 - The Reimagining of Thornwood House by Jaleigh Johnson (pre-order, releases June 9, 2026) 5:56 - Martyr! by Kaveh Akbar  10:53 - Current Reads 11:14 - The Bookseller by Tim Sullivan (Meredith) 17:03 - The Better Mother by Jennifer van der Kleut (Kaytee) 21:30 - Strangers by Belle Berden (Meredith) 24:06 - Awake by Jen Hatmaker 28:49 - Nine Goblins by T. Kingfisher (Kaytee) 29:36 - A Sorceress Comes To Call by T. Kingfisher 32:40 - What Moves the Dead by T. Kingfisher 32:41 - Nettle & Bone by T. Kingfisher 32:42 - Swordheart by T. Kingfisher 34:56 - The Red Winter by Cameron Sullivan (Meredith) 36:42 - An Unlikely Story 38:25 - Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell by Susanne Clarke 39:26 - The Bright Sword by Lev Grossman 40:13 - Isola by Allegra Goodman (Kaytee) 45:35 - Deep Dive: Boss My TBR From Carrie: 47:19 - Lady Tremine by Rachel Hochhauser 47:20 - How to Kill A Guy In Ten Dates by Shailee Thompson 47:24 - Five by Ilona Bannister 47:27 - Isabella Nagg and the Pot of Basil by Oliver Darkshire 47:57  - romance.io  48:02 - This Summer will be Different by Carley Fortune 50:38 - Every Summer After by Carley Fortune From Gianna: 52:26 - The Boomerang by Robert Bailey 52:28 - Down with the Shipmans by Meg Mitchell Moore 52:31 - For Whom the Belle Tolls by Jaysea Lynn 52:34 - Good People by Patmeena Sabit 52:37 - Lady Tremine by Rachel Hochhauser 57:23 - Before We Go Kaytee highlights a bookish friend post Meredith brings a book she might DNF and why 59:43 - Bat Eater and Other Names for Cora Zang by Kylie Lee Baker   Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. May's IPL is brought to us from a new to us bookstore, Book & Books in Coral Gables, Florida Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads | Substack | Youtube The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

Description:Some episodes we plan. This one you created. This week, Jen and Amy are stepping back and letting the people they do this whole thing for take center stage. It's Listener Voicemail Day — and honestly? It might be our favorite kind of episode. Because nothing reminds us why this community exists quite like hearing your actual voices. So we're bringing your calls to you — from all kinds of moments and all kinds of women. Jessica calls in to reflect on our Awake Collective episode and where she is at in her own healing process, and feeling the loneliness that can settle in when you're deep in the work. Jen and Amy reflect on so much of the wisdom of our incredible Awake Collective panel – Kate Bowler, Nedra Tawwab, Emily Nagoski, and Kobe Cambell, whose words echo here: healing isn't supposed to feel good — it's supposed to feel like disruption. Sara brings it home with a call about raising young girls. Between them, Jen and Amy are parenting nine young adults, so they have thoughts. Amanda found Awake on vacation and came home having discovered something she didn't know she was missing — an invisible community of women who just get it. Deborah calls in from Canada with a story that will stop you in your tracks. A devastating and beautiful parallel between her journey losing her husband to terminal brain cancer and Jen's own story — and the breathtaking grace of how, by God's grace, we do recover. Tania reflects on the Wilderness and Wonder series and a recent trip to the mountains that cracked something open in her — the awe, the connection, the reminder that this podcast is its own kind of sacred space. And Diavianne closes things out talking budgets and spreadsheets, which sounds ordinary until you realize it's actually about power — the freedom and confidence that come from truly owning your financial life. Jen and Amy respond to each one with the honesty and tenderness that only comes from doing this long enough to know: you are never as alone as you think you are. This is the connective tissue. This is why we show up every week. Have something you need to say out loud? Head to JenHatmaker.com/Podcast, find the Send Voicemail button, and leave us your story. We're listening. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There's something comforting about not feeling alone in something. I borrow courage from other people who say ‘me too'.” – Jen Hatmaker “Some things only work for us for a season. It's okay to change things up. There's not one right way to do things.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Wake-Up Call: What Changes in Midlife—and Why You're Not Imagining It - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-wake-up-call-what-changes-in-midlife-and-why-youre-not-imagining-it/ Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams by Matthew Walker - https://amzn.to/4whxU6N The Emotional (and Sometimes Chaotic) Life of Teenagers with Dr. Lisa Damour - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-52-for-the-love-of-calming-the-chaos/the-emotional-and-sometimes-chaotic-life-of-teenagers-with-dr-lisa-damour/ Good Bones by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4neIlUp Jen's Finance MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/me-course-finance Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Molly and Emese sit down with author and speaker Jen Hatmaker to talk about her new memoir Awake—a deeply personal look at divorce, faith, and starting over in midlife. After discovering her husband was living a double life, Jen's world shifted overnight, forcing her to rebuild her own life, identity, and beliefs in public. They talk about navigating betrayal and gaslighting, parenting through upheaval, trusting your instincts, and what it really looks like to start over. Plus, how writing became a path forward—and why sometimes the only way out is through. A Sony Music Entertainment production.  Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us at @sonypodcasts  To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email podcastadsales@sonymusic.com All Products Mentioned:  https://go.shopmy.us/p-56786747 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Check out the full episode: https://lewishowes.com/podcast/build-a-new-identity-own-your-truth-love-your-life-with-jen-hatmaker/ Jen Hatmaker shares valuable insights on enhancing your relationships. She discusses practical tips for strengthening your connections with others, emphasizing the importance of communication, empathy, and understanding. Jen's personal anecdotes and advice offer listeners a refreshing perspective on improving their relationships. Whether it's in your personal or professional life, this episode provides valuable takeaways for anyone looking to foster more meaningful and fulfilling connections with others. Sign up for the Greatness newsletter! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What happens when the life you built—carefully, faithfully, and very publicly—splits down the middle in a single night? This week on Typology, we're revisiting one of the most powerful conversations we've had on the show—a replay of my interview with bestselling author and cultural truth-teller Jen Hatmaker. Jen, an Enneagram Three with a courageous edge that sometimes looks a lot like an Eight, joined me to talk about her memoir Awake and the "before-and-after date" that changed everything—July 11, 2020— when her 26-year marriage ended and the life she knew cracked wide open. In this conversation, we explore what it means to wake up in midlife: to grief and betrayal, to shedding scripts you never consciously chose, to loosening your grip on approval, and to discovering what actually matters in the second half of life. We also dig into how Threes navigate identity, success, and failure—especially when life refuses to follow the plan. Jen shares how therapy, embodiment work, and radical honesty helped her rebuild—not for optics, but for something sturdier and truer. If you're in a season of change—or if life has recently pulled the rug out from under you—this episode still hits with the same quiet force. Think of it as a hand on your shoulder and a light for the next few steps.     ABOUT JEN HATMAKER Jen Hatmaker is a bestselling author, award-winning podcaster, speaker, and fierce advocate for women living in freedom and agency. With 14 books—including four New York Times bestsellers—along with her beloved For the Love podcast, Jen Hatmaker Book Club, and more, she reaches millions with her signature mix of humor, vulnerability, and wisdom. Her newest book, AWAKE: A Memoir, (released on September 23, 2025), chronicles her raw, real-time journey through the shocking end of her 26-year marriage and surprising reinvention. She lives in a creaky old farmhouse, loves 90s country, and drinks Almond Joy creamer like it's a personality trait. Find her at JenHatmaker.com.

Description:Sometimes a conversation lands so gently—and so powerfully—that it deserves another moment in the light. In this encore episode, Jen revisits her conversation with poet, writer, and visual artist David Gate, whose work explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Jen first discovered David the way so many of us discover the words that change us: late at night on Instagram, stumbling across a poem that made her stop mid-scroll and immediately send it to six friends. That was the beginning of a quiet fandom that eventually turned into this conversation—one that felt less like an interview and more like sitting in the presence of someone who has learned how to notice beauty in hard places. David's work—including his collection A Rebellion of Care—is rooted in the radical idea that tenderness, attention, and compassion are not small acts. They are resistance. They are survival. They are a way through the wilderness. Together, Jen and David explore the ways language can become a lifeline during difficult seasons. They talk about the courage of softness in a harsh world, the sacred practice of paying attention, and how poetry can give us words for things we thought we had to carry alone. This conversation sits right at the intersection: the wilderness of grief, uncertainty, and fatigue—and the wonder that still insists on growing in the cracks. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate “It's a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/ Guest's Links: Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/ Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today's bonus episode is a joy from start to finish. We're sitting down with treasured friend Anne Lamott—beloved writer, teacher, and spiritual guide—whose voice has shaped how so many of us think about faith, truth, writing, and what it means to be human on the page. Anne returns to For the Love to talk about her upcoming book, Good Writing, co-written with her husband, journalist and editor Neal Allen. While Neal couldn't join us today, this conversation is very much about the shared work they created together—a book that isn't chasing polish or perfection, but clarity, honesty, and respect for the reader. Good Writing is part craft guide, part philosophy of living. Written in alternating voices, it blends Anne's signature warmth, humor, and spiritual insight with Neal's journalistic precision and discipline. Together, they explore what makes sentences work, how voice is formed, why ego gets in the way, and why clarity is not just a stylistic choice—but an act of generosity. In this intimate and often funny conversation, Jen and Amy talk with Anne about what it was like to co-write a book so closely, what collaboration revealed about trust and restraint, and how writing—at its best—is a relationship. They dig into voice and ego, bad sentences and letting go, rhythm and revision, and why removing what doesn't serve the sentence can feel like both grief and grace. But as always with Anne, the conversation goes deeper than craft. This episode explores writing as a way of being in the world—how attention, humility, and courage shape not only our sentences, but our lives.  If you've ever loved Bird by Bird, wrestled with your inner critic, or longed to tell the truth with a little more care—this conversation is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I only have to do today, today.” – Anne Lamott “We write because we try to tell the truth. We try to share our experience, strength and hope.” – Anne Lamott “Say what you mean. Mean what you say. And don't say it mean.” – Anne Lamott Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Traveling Mercies: Some Thoughts on Faith by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4qLZRQR Anne Lamott on Faith, Writing, and Radical Self-Love - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/bonus/anne-lamott-on-faith-writing-and-radical-self-love-2/ Neal Allen - https://www.shapesoftruth.com/ Good Writing: 36 Ways to Improve Your Sentences by Neal Allen and Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3NMoKNP Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4t7FteL Somehow: Thoughts on Love by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3Z4Nd3r Stanley Tucci on the For the Love podcast - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/stanley-tucci-food-memories-and-emotions/ Amy's Full of Microplastics and Existential Dread Sweatshirt - https://www.threadless.com/shop/@dinomike/design/full-of-microplastics/womens/sweatshirt Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rlv3Gz Jessica Mitford - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Mitford Tyler Merritt - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/49N1ms8 Better Days: Tame Your Inner Critic by Neal Allen - https://amzn.to/3LTEVs9 A Writing Room - https://awritingroom.com/ Guest's Links: Website - https://awritingroom.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/ Twitter - https://x.com/ANNELAMOTT?lang=en Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott/ Substack - https://annelamott.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker, New York Times best-selling author of 'Awake: A Memoir', discusses her journey of healing and transformation following the end of her 26-year marriage, how she broke free from codependent patterns and learned to trust her intuition.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Description:Many of us were taught that desire is dangerous—something to manage, suppress, or feel ashamed of. But what if desire isn't the problem at all? What if it's not just about sex or attraction, but about the places we feel most alive? Today, Jen and Amy sit down with FTL fan-favorite Jay Stringer, a licensed therapist and author whose work helps people understand the deeper stories shaping their desires—especially the ones we've been taught to hide, or silence. Drawing from his powerful new book Desire, Jay reframes desire not as a moral failure or impulse to eliminate, but as a signal worth listening to—one that points us toward what formed us, what wounded us, and what we are still longing for beneath the surface. Jay shifts the focus from behavior modification to understanding the story behind desire—for intimacy, success, escape, creativity, or belonging—shaped by early attachment, trauma, and unmet needs. The conversation moves from "What's wrong with me?" to "What happened to me?" turning desire from shame into meaning. This is not a conversation about labeling or fixing yourself. It's about understanding yourself—how your story formed you, and how listening to what brings you to life can lead toward freedom, wholeness, and deeper connection.  This episode also serves as the opening doorway into our Wilderness & Wonder series. In a season when many of us are navigating uncertainty—spiritually, relationally, or internally—this episode grounds us in the idea that exploration isn't aimlessness, but formation. That the wilderness can be a teacher. And that desire itself may be one of the quiet guides helping us stay awake, curious, and present as we learn how to live inside the questions. This is a gentle conversation, but it's also a brave one. And we're really glad you're here for it. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Desire is a navigational term from Latin that means ‘lack of a star'. I'm looking into the skies, trying to find this new direction. How do I get home in the midst of all this wandering, all this misery that I feel like I'm in?” – Jay Stringer “When did you last feel alive? When did you feel connected to your body, connected to others? That's the essence of desire that we're trying to get back to.” – Jay Stringer “The antidote to shame is really developing some curiosity for it.” – Jay Stringer Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Harper's Magazine | Who Goes Nazi? by Dorothy Thompson - https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/ Desire: The Longings Inside Us and the New Science of How We Love, Heal, and Grow by Jay Stringer - https://amzn.to/4buLADD Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing by Jay Stringer - https://www.amazon.com/Unwanted-Sexual-Brokenness-Reveals-Healing/dp/1631466720 Annie Dillard - https://www.anniedillard.com/ Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Alex Honnold climbs Taipei 101 skyscraper without ropes - https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Living/video/alex-honnold-climbs-taipei-101-skyscraper-ropes-129537771 Bill Plotkin - https://www.animas.org/about-us/our-founder/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3LTorjM Stanzas from the Grande Chartreuse by Matthew Arnold - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43605/stanzas-from-the-grande-chartreuse Jon Batiste - jonbatiste.com Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Dacher Keltner, PhD - https://www.dacherkeltner.com/ Guest's Links: Website - https://jay-stringer.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jay_stringer_/ Twitter - https://x.com/_jaystringer Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JayStringerUnwanted# Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Description: What happens when the life you've been managing no longer fits? Jen Hatmaker sits down with Nedra Glover Tawwab, Emily Nagoski, Kobe Campbell, and Kate Bowler for an honest conversation about what it really means to wake up in midlife. Together, they explore where awakening often shows up first—our relationships, bodies, mental health, and faith. This isn't about fixing yourself. It's about noticing what's shifting, understanding why it feels disruptive, and realizing you're not alone. From boundaries and burnout to anxiety, trauma, body shame, and faith after certainty, this episode offers language and clarity for women navigating midlife change with courage. If you've ever thought, Something's changing—and I don't know what to do with it, this conversation is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You're not broken. You're paying attention.” — Jen Hatmaker “Midlife clarity isn't cruelty. It's information.” — Nedra Glover Tawwab “Healing doesn't mean you stop feeling. It means your responses finally make sense.” — Kobe Campbell “Anxiety can bring clarity—but it's not meant to be the fuel forever.” — Kobe Campbell “You don't complete stress by thinking it through. You complete it by letting it move through your body.” — Emily Nagoski “Certainty falling away doesn't mean faith is gone. It means it's growing up.” — Kate Bowler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab – https://amzn.to/4rhSzofThe Balancing Act: Creating Healthy Dependency and Connection Without Losing Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab – https://amzn.to/46cF4hgCome As You Are: Revised and Updated: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski – https://www.amazon.com/Come-You-Are-Surprising-Transform/dp/1982165316/ Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski – https://amzn.to/3MgTXIK Why Am I Like This?: How to Break Cycles, Heal from Trauma, and Restore Your Faith by Kobe Campbell – https://amzn.to/4qIMqR9 Joyful, Anyway by Kate Bowler – https://amzn.to/3MdyfW3 Everything Happens podcast with Kate Bowler – https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ Nedra's Links: Website - https://www.nedratawwab.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nedratawwab/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/nedratawwab/-  Substack - https://nedratawwab.substack.com/ Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-need-to-hear-this-with-nedra-tawwab/id1686288228 Emily's Links: Website - https://www.emilynagoski.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/enagoski/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/emilynagoskiphd/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@emilynagoski Substack - https://substack.com/@emilynagoski Podcast - https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/come-as-you-are Kobe's Links: Website - https://kobecampbell.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kobecampbell_/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TheKobeCampbell/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheKobeCampbell Substack - https://substack.com/@kobecampbell Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-healing-circle-podcast-with-kobe-campbell/id1448504061 Kate's Links: Website - https://katebowler.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/ Twitter - https://x.com/katecbowler Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf8m7lNdR7YVieU0muCg5cg TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@katecbowler Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/katecbowler/ Substack - https://katebowler.substack.com/ Podcast - https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: This month in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, Jen is joined by novelist Eliana Ramage to talk about her stunning debut, To the Moon and Back—a book that is as page-turny as it is tender, and as expansive as it is rooted. Jen and Eliana trace the actual arc of this book—how it began with an unforgettable spark of an idea at Dartmouth (about an “astronaut girl” who shows us that our stories aren't static, and neither are our people) and how, over more than a decade, that idea became a novel about ambition, belonging, identity, and the complicated, beautiful gravity of connection. In this conversation, Jen and Eliana explore a story centered on a young woman unraveling in the aftermath of loss, navigating complicated relationships, spiritual longing, and the quiet ache of wanting more than the life she's been handed. They dig into the women at the center of the novel—the ones you'll root for, the ones who will frustrate you (hi, ambition), and the ones who will linger long after you close the cover—and they unpack why the ending matters: not because it ties everything into neat bows, but because it honors what's true. Because in real life, healing doesn't land with fireworks. It lands with honesty. With restraint. With the choice to keep loving, even when certainty has slipped through our fingers. This is a conversation about grieving honestly, questioning inherited beliefs, and staying awake to your own life. It's about learning that connection matters more than performance—and trusting that the long arc of love and healing is still unfolding. Whether you're reading along with the book club or simply craving a thoughtful, soulful conversation to start the new year, this episode invites you to slow down, feel deeply, and remember: even in loss, even in doubt, we are still reaching—toward connection, toward each other, and back to ourselves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “This is a story about women who are trying to understand who they are and move forward together after making some mistakes. That's where I definitely am right now. And if I could just finish this one thing that has been so hard for so many years, then it would be the first time I had done something that I could be really proud of.” – Eliana Ramage “I think in real life, you don't need to know that everything is all gonna be figured out at once. You need to land the plane on what matters. I don't think any of us, for our own lives, feel like we have that written out. And so there's some wiggle room on where we could go next, I think.”– Eliana Ramage “It's become kind of a ritual to ask myself,  can you believe that you're doing this job because your wildest dreams came true?”– Eliana Ramage Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Avid Reader Press - https://avidreaderpress.com/ Fancy Lunch - https://tinyurl.com/3uyuxryf Joyride: A Memoir by Susan Orlean - https://amzn.to/49vTrhC The Uncool: A Memoir by Cameron Crowe - https://amzn.to/3LFmd7n Lily King - https://lilykingbooks.com/ Reese Witherspoon book club pick - September 2025 - https://reesesbookclub.com/book/to-the-moon-and-back/ Mid-America All Indian Center, Wichita, KS - https://www.theindianmuseum.org/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4swRPg9 Parnassus Books - https://parnassusbooks.net/ Ring of Salt: A Memoir of Finding Home and Hope on the Wild Coast of Ireland by Betsy Cornwell - https://amzn.to/3Z9qtPu I'll Tell You When I'm Home by Hala Alyan - https://amzn.to/4bof7yr Guest's Links: Website - https://www.elianaramage.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/elianaramage/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today we're talking about something most of us sideline, postpone, or avoid entirely until life forces our hand: MONEY. This is a topic our host Jen Hatmaker knows all too well. For years, Jen let her then husband handle all of the bills, the budgeting, the taxes, the investments, everything. When she walked through divorce in midlife, she had to start from zero. It was humbling, terrifying, and ultimately deeply empowering. We're thrilled to bring you today's guest: Jean Chatzky, bestselling author, Emmy-winning financial journalist, CEO of HerMoney, and host of the hugely popular HerMoney Podcast. Jean is one of America's most trusted voices on personal finance, with decades spent breaking down complicated concepts into simple, actionable steps—especially for women who have historically been excluded from financial conversations.   In this discussion, we go straight to the questions so many of us have but don't know how to ask: Where do you even start if finances feel overwhelming? How do you build confidence around money after years of letting someone else handle it? What does stability actually look like in midlife, especially for women navigating divorce, caregiving, career transitions, or reinvention? We talk about the mechanics of getting your financial life organized, and the emotional stories women carry around worth, fear, and permission. Jean offers grounding guidance you can act on today—whether it's tackling debt, starting to invest, or finally creating some safety and agency around your money. If you've ever felt late to the financial game, intimidated by jargon, or unsure how to build security for the next chapter—this episode will meet you with compassion, clarity, and courage. Jean is a generous teacher, and we cannot wait for you to learn from her. Thought-provoking Quotes: “This is one of those things that we absolutely can blame on our parents because we weren't raised in homes necessarily where women took the lead on finances. And we tend to model what we grew up with.” – Jean Chatzky “Women are an army of perfectionists and many of us don't like to do things until we know that we can do them correctly. And with money, there are some things where I can give you an answer. But if you ask me what's the best stock or what's the best mutual fund or what's the best investment strategy, I can give you an answer that's worked historically, but I can't give you a perfect answer. And a lot of us are just not comfortable with that.” – Jean Chatzky “I've been around a lot of people who've made a lot of money mistakes that are solvable. The one that's not solvable is not starting, because if you ask any older woman, what they wish they had done differently where their money is concerned, a hundred of them are gonna tell you, I wish I had started investing earlier.” – Jean Chatzky Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jean Chatzky's HerMoney Podcast – https://hermoney.com/t/podcasts/ From Financially In the Dark to Fully In Control: Jen Hatmaker's Wake-Up Call – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-financially-in-the-dark-to-fully-in-control-jen/id1098802558?i=1000740622343 Monarch money management app – https://www.monarch.com/ Rocket Money –https://www.rocketmoney.com/ Openbank High Yield Savings account – https://secureapply.openbank.us/savings/intro/welcome Guest's Links: Website - https://hermoney.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jeanchatzky Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JeanChatzky/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jeanchatzky Podcast - https://hermoney.com/t/podcasts/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker on AWAKE, reinvention, grief, divorce, new love, and raising 5 kids. A deeply intimate conversation about rebuilding your life with honesty, tenderness, and hope. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Description:This is your wake up call: your body was never the problem. By midlife, so many women are exhausted—not just by life, but by decades of being told to manage, fix, discipline, and override our bodies. Wellness culture promised health and control. What it often delivered was shame, disconnection, and the quiet belief that rest, ease, and joy had to be earned. Today's conversation asks us to wake up to something different. Chrissy King is a writer, educator, and body liberation advocate whose work exposes the harm baked into diet and fitness culture and offers a radically more honest path forward. One rooted in consent instead of control. Trust instead of punishment. Listening instead of fixing. In this Wake Up Call episode, Chrissy opens our eyes to what happens when we stop treating our bodies like projects and start treating them like partners—especially in midlife, when our bodies are changing and asking us to pay attention. We unpack why rest is a biological need (not a reward), and how relearning how to listen can be a form of liberation. This is a wake up call to the truth we've ignored: the body knows. It knows when something isn't working. It knows when we're depleted. It knows what it needs next. And when we learn to trust that wisdom—not just individually, but collectively—we don't just heal our relationship with our bodies, we change the story entirely. If your body has been tapping you on the shoulder, this episode is your invitation to listen. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Society has conditioned women to put all of our value, effort, and energy into being the smallest version of ourselves possible. Then we have to spend the second half of our lives trying to unlearn that.” – Chrissy King “In ancient art, we see these big, beautiful bodies being immortalized and looked at as beautiful. So, how did we get to this point where we're demonizing people in larger bodies?” – Chrissy King “I think falling in love yourself is the most beautiful love story of all time.” - Chrissy King “The focus can't just be, do I feel good in my body? The focus has to be, is anybody in any body able to feel safe and respected and exist in their body free of harm? That's what the modern body positivity movement is really missing.” - Chrissy King “I think that we have to accept what our abilities are today, that what our bodies look like today is what it looks like today and tomorrow could be completely different. Bodies are designed to change.” - Chrissy King Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4qoLTnZ The Body Liberation Project: How Understanding Racism and Diet Culture Helps Cultivate Joy and Build Collective Freedom by Chrissy King - https://amzn.to/49m6TWn The Body is Not an Apology: The Power of Radical Self-Love by Sonya Renne Taylor - https://amzn.to/3YJyfQ9 Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia by Dr. Sabrina Strings - https://amzn.to/49rmeoA White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism by Robin DiAngelo - https://amzn.to/3NyO75z Be The Bridge organization - https://bethebridge.com/  We Were Never Meant to Have Universal Healthcare by Dr. Jessica Knurick - https://drjessicaknurick.substack.com/p/we-were-never-meant-to-have-universal Guest's Links: Website - https://chrissyking.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/iamchrissyking/ Twitter - https://x.com/iamchrissyking TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@iamchrissyking Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ChrissyKingFitness/ Substack - https://chrissyking.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today, we're stepping into the candlelit, corseted world of Victorian England with New York Times bestselling author Madeline Martin—a master of emotionally rich, meticulously researched historical fiction. Madeline's novels (The Last Bookshop in London, The Librarian Spy, The Keeper of Hidden Books) have introduced millions of readers to hidden corners of history where ordinary people wield books as lifelines, rebellion, and hope. Her latest work and our December JHBC pick, The Secret Book Society, is no exception. Set in an era when women were warned that reading could “inflame the imagination,” The Secret Book Society follows Lady Duxbury—a thrice-widowed countess trailed by scandalous whispers—who covertly gathers a small circle of women for tea…and contraband literature. What begins as shared curiosity blooms into a daring underground society where women read the stories they've been forbidden, claim a power they've been denied, and build the kind of sisterhood that can spark a quiet revolution. In this conversation, we pull back the velvet curtain on: how real Victorian restrictions inspired her fictional rebellion the archival rabbit holes that uncovered surprising truths about women, reading, and resistance the power of “found family” in times of surveillance, judgment, and constraint why stories become sanctuaries when the world demands silence Thought-provoking Quotes: “Reading can really provide such lightness in dark times.” – Madeline Martin “Every book that I've written, I have been to the location where it is set. And I've been able to get that really wonderful firsthand experience of being there. I feel like it takes this black and white world and colors it in this really vivid, wonderful way that lets me accurately convey it onto the book for hopefully what makes for a very evocative read for the reader.” –  Madeline Martin “If you read a book and it's so good you can't put it down, you read it over the course of a weekend, and you can viscerally recall every part of that story, from what the character drank and ate, to what they wore, to that snarky little one-liner that they gave the antagonist. But if you took six months to read that book, you might have a different experience. So for me, when I get to write that book in one month, it's like I'm living in their skin, and I'm living in their heads.” – Madeline Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Outlander by Diana Gabaldon - https://amzn.to/4iv5e3C The Last Bookshop in London: A Novel of World War II by Madeline Martin - https://amzn.to/4pKU0uq For the Love: Fighting for Grace in a World of Impossible Standards by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/48AqikP A Time of Witches: A Novel by Madeline Martin – https://amzn.to/3MBpnJl The Forgotten Pages by Madeline Martin – coming 2027 Goodreads 2025 Reading Challenge – https://www.goodreads.com/readingchallenges?ref=rc_summerreading_25 The Hope Keeper: A Novel by Heather Webb –https://amzn.to/48uJkc2 The Lotus Shoes: A Novel by Jane Yang – https://amzn.to/447ANuy Guest's Links: Website - https://madelinemartin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madelinemmartin/ Twitter - https://x.com/MadelineMMartin Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MadelineMartinAuthor Pinterest - https://www.instagram.com/madelinemmartin/ Substack - https://authormadelinemartin.substack.com/subscribe Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What happens after the dream you built your life around ends? In today's tender and searching conversation, Jen and Amy sit down with acclaimed novelist Ben Markovits to talk about his forthcoming book, The Rest of Our Lives—a story that lingers in the quiet spaces of midlife, marriage, parenting, friendship, and the quiet reckonings that arrive when the future you imagined no longer fits. The book is so spectacular, it has been shortlisted as a finalist for the illustrious Booker Prize. Together, the trio explores what happens when the life you worked toward doesn't quite deliver what you expected—and how that reckoning ripples through family, intimacy, and identity. Ben speaks honestly about ambition, and the grief of letting go of former selves, while also naming the surprising beauty found in showing up for the people you love in ordinary, unglamorous moments. He and Jen talk about the similarities between the fictional story that he wrote and the real-life account that Jen penned in Awake.  This episode is for anyone standing in the middle of their life, caring for children or parents (or both), wondering how to hold disappointment without becoming hardened—and how to love the life in front of you without pretending it's easy. It's a conversation about endurance, tenderness, and the brave, ongoing work of choosing one another as the years keep unfolding. If you've ever asked yourself, Is this really it?—and then quietly hoped the answer might still be no, not yet—this one is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “The author of Anatomy of a Murder said that writing a novel is like driving on a mountain road late at night. You should know where you're trying to get to, and you should be able to see 30 yards in advance.  I guess I have some sense of where I want to get to and then I spend a lot of time watching the next 30 yards.” – Ben Markovits “I like to write about characters who feel like the place they have made for themselves in the world doesn't totally express their sense of who they are.” – Ben Markovits I love the way you write all the backstories of everything because I'm someone who wants to ask 20 questions about what was the furniture in the in-laws beach house like and how did that shape the family dynamic that he married into? Which if you, if you ask all those questions, you sound a little crazy. But actually, you answered all of my questions as I was reading. – Amy Hardin “At a certain point in marriage, you have your fingerprints all over each other.” – Ben Markovits “I love when characters are human, flawed, curious, confused, just really working out their own story. I'm drawn to stories like that that aren't necessarily tidy.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Rest of Our Lives: A Novel by Ben Markovits – https://amzn.to/4qanlhM The Booker Prizes | Ben Markovits – https://thebookerprizes.com/the-booker-library/authors/ben-markovits Anatomy of a Murder by Robert Traver – https://amzn.to/3YAUTKc Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/4qaARlw Phineas Redux by Anthony Trollope – https://amzn.to/4qiOPSN Starting Out by Ben Markovits – https://www.faber.co.uk/journal/faber-announces-the-acquisition-of-a-new-novel-by-ben-markovits/#:~:text=It%20will%20be%20published%20in,' New York Times – out 12/21 Atlantic Excerpt –  The Rest of Our Lives Book Tour – https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Rest-of-Our-Lives/Ben-Markovits/9781668231562 Guest's Links: Website - https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Ben-Markovits/250699726 Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you ever wish you could reinvent yourself or that you had the courage to let go of a life that no longer fits? Do you struggle to trust your intuition or worry that it's too late to start over? If so, today's episode is for you. My guest is Jen Hatmaker, a New York Times bestselling author with millions of social media followers. After 26 years of marriage, she discovered her husband was cheating. That moment forced her to confront her deepest fears, question her beliefs, and rebuild her life from the ground up. Some of the things we discuss are: Why we cling to stories that no longer serve us How to rebuild your life after everything falls apart Why grief and growth often happen at the same time The importance of trusting your intuition and never abandoning yourself How to prepare for life's curveballs before they hit Subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Mentally Stronger Premium⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for exclusive content like weekly bonus episodes, mental strength challenges, and office hours with me. Related Episodes ⁠ 245 — Christine Brown Woolley on Redefining Strength, Leaving a 25-Year Marriage, and Finding the Courage to Start Over ⁠202 — 10 Ways to Improve Mental Health Without Therapy Links & Resources JenHatmaker.com Awake Connect with the Show Buy a copy of⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠13 Things Mentally Strong People Don't Do⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Amy on Instagram —⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@AmyMorinAuthor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit my website —⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AmyMorinLCSW.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsors Quince — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/stronger⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns! Shopify — Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shopify.com/mentallystronger⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Lola Blankets — Get 35% off your entire order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lolablankets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ by using code STRONGER at checkout. Experience the world's #1 blanket with Lola Blankets. AirDoctor — Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AirDoctorPro.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠and use promo code STRONGER to get UP TO $300 off today! Function Health — Visit functionhealth.com/stronger or use gift code STRONGER25 for a $25 credit toward your membership. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Currently Reading, Kaytee and Meredith are deep diving into their top reads of 2025. This year, they alternate between reads and superlatives. From best Cheeto chapters to books that made them uncomfortable, the year had some amazing books and experiences. Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  1:35 - Ad For Ourselves 1:54 - NYT Article about book podcasts "Seven Podcasts for Bookworms" 2:27 - Currently Reading Patreon 5:23 - Some Stats From Our Reading Lives 7:07 - 68% of reads were backlist (Kaytee) 7:38 - Kaytee read 230 books 7:59 - Meredith read 127 books 8:54 - 64% female/36%male authors (Meredith) 9:09 - Average rating of 4.1 (Meredith) 10:53 - 44% Kindle, 13% audiobook, poetry 4% of total reads, 17% nonfiction (Meredith) 12:28 - 22% romance, 20% fantasy, 14% as literary (Kaytee) 14:34 - 32% authors revisited, library serendipity #1 recommendation source followed by Elizabeth Barnhill, Roxanna and Betsie Ikenberry (Meredith) 16:13 - Katie Proctor #1 recommendation source, followed by the indie press list, libro. Fm, and Meredith (Kaytee) 17:55 - Berkeley and Random House biggest publishing houses, followed by Harper, William Morrow, Atria and Flatiron Books (Kaytee) 18:21 - Minotaur, Atria and Random House biggest publishing houses (Meredith) 19:57 - Our Top 10 Reads of 2025 20:27 - Superlative #1: Book or books you will recommend most from this year? 20:39 - A Rebellion of Care by David Gate (Kaytee) 21:20 - So Far Gone by Jess Walter (Meredith) 23:25 - The Ghostwriter by Julie Clark (Meredith #10) 24:08 - You Could Make This Place Beautiful by Maggie Smith (Kaytee #10) 24:28 - Awake by Jen Hatmaker 24:30 - I Thought It Would Be Better Than This by Jessica Turner 25:30 - Superlative #2: Which book would be hardest to shelve in the library? 25:51 - Turns of Fate by Anne Bishop (Meredith) 26:02 - The Tainted Cup by Robert Jackson Bennett 27:01 - My Lady Jane by Cynthia Hand, Brodi Ashton and Jodi Meadows (Kaytee) 27:55 - Royal Gambit by Daniel O'Malley (Meredith #9) 29:32 - Death of the Author by Nnedi Okorafor (Kaytee #9) 30:31 - Superlative #3: The book we wanted to throw across the room 30:38 - Death of the Author by Nnedi Okorafor (Meredith) 32:23 - Secret of Secrets by Dan Brown (Kaytee) 33:11 - The Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger 33:57 - A Winter's Promise by Christelle Dabos (Meredith #8) 35:53 - My Friends by Fredrik Backman (Kaytee #8) 37:16 - Superlative #4: The book that made you the most uncomfortable 37:29 - Eager by Ben Goldfarb (Kaytee) 38:57 - Sandy Hook by Eilzabeth Williamson (Meredith) 40:25 - Forensics by Val McDermid (Meredith #7) 41:52 - Forensics by Val McDermid (Blackwells edition) 42:24 - Prodigal Summer by Barbara Kingsolver (Kaytee #7) 42:52 - Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver 43:42 - Superlative #5: The best picture book that you read aloud this year 44:15 - No, David! By David Shannon (Meredith) 45:07 - The Creature of Habit by Jennifer E. Smith and Leo Espinosa (Kaytee) 46:35 - The Correspondent by Virginia Evans (Meredith AND Kaytee #6) 47:33 - CR Season 7: Episode 46 49:09 - Superlative #6: The best audiobook experience 49:23 - Woodworking by Emily St. James (Kaytee) 50:19 - This Book Will Bury Me by Ashley Winstead (Meredith) 51:38 - North Sun by Ethan Rutherford (Meredith #5) 52:53 - This Changes Everything by Tyler Merritt (Kaytee #5) 53:01 - I Take My Coffee Black by Tyler Merritt 54:31 - Superlatives #7: Longest and shortest book read this year 54:46 - A Little Daylight Left by Sarah Kay (Meredith shortest) 55:03 - The Shadow Rising by Robert Jordan (Meredith longest) 55:34 - The Answer is No by Fredrik Backman (Kaytee shortest, amazon link) 55:53 - These Truths by Jill Lepore (Kaytee longest) 56:20 - The Stand by Stephen King 57:16 - The Unseen World by Liz Moore (Meredith #4) 57:25 - The God of the Woods by Liz Moore 58:50 - This is Happiness by Niall Williams (Kaytee #4) 59:57 - Superlative #8: Best book outside your wheelhouse 1:00:09 - The Dragon Reborn by Robert Jordan (Meredith) 1:01:07 - The Dutch House by Ann Patchett (Kaytee) 1:01:30 - Erasure by Percival Everett 1:01:32 - A Wish in the Dark by Christina Soontornvat 1:03:34 - The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison (Meredith #3) 1:07:15 - Most Ardently by Gabe Cole Novoa (Kaytee #3) 1:07:31 - Pride by Ibi Zoboi 1:08:56 - Superlative #9: Your favorite new to you author 1:09:08 - Swordheart by T. Kingfisher (Meredith) 1:09:31 - Stone Yard Devotional by Charlotte Wood (Meredith) 1:09:48 - Song of Blood & Stone by L. Penelope (Kaytee) 1:10:12 - The Monsters We Defy by Leslye Penelope 1:11:03 - Victorian Psycho by Virginia Feito (Meredith #2) 1:12:37 - Take What You Can Carry by Gian Sardar (Kaytee #2) 1:14:07 - Superlative #10: The most milkshake book/cheeto chapter book you read this year 1:14:50 - The Other Side of the Wall by Andrea Mara (Meredith, Blackwell's link) 1:14:57 - All Her Fault by Andrea Mara 1:15:53 - The Reappearance of Rachel Price by Holly Jackson (Meredith) 1:16:35 - The Mysterious Case of the Alperton Angels by Janice Hallett (Kaytee) 1:18:14 - Lady Tremaine by Rachel Hockhauer (Meredith #1) 1:20:57 - Impossible Creatures by Katherine Rundell (Kaytee #1) 1:23:13 - book print etsy shop Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. January's IPL is our annual visit to Fabled Bookshop in Waco, Texas. Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business.  All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

Description:As we close out the year, we wanted to do something a little different—and a little more tender. In this special end-of-year episode of For the Love, we're turning the mic over to you. Over the past months, your voicemails have poured in, telling the story of what it's been like to read Awake: the unraveling, the naming, the grief, the relief, the courage, the slow return to yourself. The messages were so honest and so resonant that we knew we needed to play some of them back—not just to honor the people who shared them, but to remind anyone listening in a similar space that they are not alone. We've woven these voices together in four acts, tracing the arc so many of us recognize. Act I — “The Moment Everything Broke” We hear from Nadine, Allison, and Sharon about the before-and-after moments: marriages ending, bodies shamed, the deep wounds of purity culture, and the rupture that comes when the life you were living can no longer hold. Act II — “Finding Language for the Ache” Paulette and Inez share what it means to finally name what couldn't be named before—untangling attachment and codependence, wrestling with faith, Jesus, and the pain of church rupture, and discovering words for a long-held ache. Act III — “Coming Back to Ourselves” With Kelly and Laura, we witness what healing can look like in motion: reclaiming agency, inhabiting our bodies again, joy returning, learning to cherish yourself, embracing life, committing to therapy, finding community, and being truly seen. Act IV — “Witnessing a Life Over Time” Tracy closes us out with the long view—what it means to trust the slow arc of a life, to be held in shared history, and to witness change unfolding over time. If something in you woke up this year—even painfully—you're not behind. You're right on time. And you are certainly not alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Here's to cherishing ourselves. We have so much to cherish.” – Kelly, For the Love listener “If you're willing to believe a voice from the future who has been sitting exactly where you are sitting…There is something after this story, even though you can't see that, something good is still coming for you.” – Jen Hatmaker “Everyone's experience can be a lantern to someone else.” – Amy Hardin “This is how it goes. This is how people are inspired and moved. This is how we lend courage to one another by saying our things out loud. And that is literally how my life moved. I listened to other people who were saying their thing out loud and I just was just sitting there quietly listening, going, I wonder if this is something I could consider.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/44U2DuL Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie – https://amzn.to/48UTYcn Jen Hatmaker Book Club – https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club?srsltid=AfmBOooHcTDRzkwfxjaozkEQyYWtFpthqUtOcFwOOiSYTqO7fCTbaEsb Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Title:  Roadtrippin with Jen + Sharron McMahon:  Awake, Unraveled, and Still Standing  Description: In this live, wide-ranging conversation, Jen Hatmaker is joined by bestselling author and civic educator Sharon McMahon (Sharon Says So) for an honest, funny, and deeply grounding discussion about truth, courage, faith, and what it means to stay awake in uncertain times. Beginning with Sharon joining Jen on stage, the two explore everything from dating after divorce and the wisdom of grandmothers, to how fear and misinformation shape our public life. They reflect on history as a guide, the importance of joy as resistance, and why living fully—especially in anxious seasons—is not a betrayal of others' suffering. Jen also shares hard-won insight about friendship in midlife, faith after certainty, and the real cost of telling the truth. Together, Jen and Sharon remind us that while waking up is disruptive, staying asleep costs more—and that we don't have to navigate this moment alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You are not helping anybody by being paralyzed in a state of fear and joylessness.”— Sharon McMahon “There have been people who came before us who lived through so much—and they left their lanterns on the path.” — Sharon McMahon “You do not owe the world a state of paralyzation and fear.”— Sharon McMahon  “One friend can love you back to life. One is enough.” — Jen Hatmaker “Too hard is living asleep at the wheel.”— Jen Hatmaker  “I don't see good fruit from this tree.”  — Jen Hatmaker  “God is not constrained to a building. I didn't lose Jesus.” — Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode:                  ➢ Awake by Jen Hatmaker ➢ Me Talk Pretty One Day by David Sedaris ➢ The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan ➢ Works by Anne Lamott ➢ Harriet Tubman (historical reference) Guest's Links: Sharon's Website– https://sharonmcmahon.com/  Sharon's Instagram –  https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon's Substack –  https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon's Podcast – https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker is back after living a lot of life since she was on Forever35 more than 5 years ago! She discusses her new book (Awake: A Memoir) about her life after her divorce, and looks back at her previous book (Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire), which came out just before she learned her husband of 26 years cheated on her. They touch on the relationship she and her kids have with religion and faith today, learning personal finance for the first time as a divorcee, and how she's left the evangelical world behind. And, Doree and Elise chat about their holiday plans and the fun ways Santa shows up for kids who are traveling for the holidays.**The Patreon Sale is happening now! Get 20% off now through this Friday 12/19 at midnight PT. **To leave a voicemail or text for a future episode, reach Doree & Elise at 781-591-0390. You can also email the podcast at forever35podcast@gmail.com.Visit forever35podcast.com for links to everything they mention on the show or visit shopmyshelf.us/forever35.Follow the podcast on Instagram (@Forever35Podcast) and sign up for the newsletter at the free tier on Patreon! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What happens when the life you built—carefully, faithfully, and publicly—splits down the middle in a single night? On this episode of Typology, I sit down with bestselling author and beloved cultural commentator Jen Hatmaker to talk about her stunning new memoir, Awake. Jen, an Enneagram Three with a courageous streak that can look a whole lot like an Eight, opens up about the "before-and-after date" that changed everything—July 11, 2020—when her 26-year marriage ended, and her whole world cracked open. Together, we explore what it means to wake up in midlife: to grief and betrayal, to leaving behind scripts you never chose, to freedom from needing to be liked, to discovering what really matters in the "second half of life." We dive into the Enneagram and the unique way Threes navigate identity, image, success, and failure—especially when life doesn't cooperate with the plan. Jen shares how therapy, embodiment work, and raw honesty helped her rebuild, and why this memoir isn't about spectacle, but about hope. This is a conversation about midlife transition, spiritual awakening, and the quiet miracle of becoming more fully yourself—right when you thought everything was falling apart. If you're navigating change, heartbreak, faith shifts, or a midlife renaissance of your own, this episode will feel like a hand on your shoulder and a light on the path.   ---------------------------------------------- ABOUT JEN HATMAKER Jen Hatmaker is a bestselling author, award-winning podcaster, speaker, and fierce advocate for women living in freedom and agency. With 14 books—including four New York Times bestsellers—along with her beloved For the Love podcast, Jen Hatmaker Book Club, and more, she reaches millions with her signature mix of humor, vulnerability, and wisdom. Her newest book, AWAKE: A Memoir, (released on September 23, 2025), chronicles her raw, real-time journey through the shocking end of her 26-year marriage and surprising reinvention. She lives in a creaky old farmhouse, loves 90s country, and drinks Almond Joy creamer like it's a personality trait. Find her at JenHatmaker.com. CONNECT WITH IAN Follow Ian on Facebook or Instagram at @ianmorgancron and @typologypodcast. Check out Ian's website at www.ianmorgancron.com **Interested in a 30-minute one-on-one virtual coaching session with Ian?  Fill out this intake form and we'll be in touch.     

Description:In this Road Tripping episode, Jen is joined by one of her dearest friends — the brilliant and beloved author and interviewer, Kelly Corrigan. Kelly read Awake cover to cover (twice!) and came armed to the live Awake Book Tour event in Denver, Colorado with ten of her favorite lines from the book, inviting Jen to riff on each one in real time. What unfolds is a night of belly laughs, truth-telling, and deep reflection on faith, patriarchy, divorce, parenting adult kids, therapy, rebuilding your life, and why middle age is actually the most freeing chapter yet. This conversation is Jen and Kelly at their absolute best: funny, wise, irreverent, and wide open. Growing up inside patriarchal faith systems and the lifelong impact of being taught not to trust your own intuition Why Jen believes that curiosity has never led her wrong — but that certainty has led her down many dead ends The moment that Jen realized the patriarchy harms everyone, including the men and boys she loves How purity culture can shape (and warp) our early ideas about sex, marriage, and womanhood Parenting through divorce and the shift from coaching to comforting Therapy breakthroughs around conflict, attachment styles, codependency, and dropping the need to control others' emotions Thought-provoking Quotes: “Curiosity has never led me wrong. Certainty has led me down so many dead ends.” —Jen Hatmaker “Patriarchy messed both of us up. Neither one of us was meant to live inside those roles.” —Jen Hatmaker “When you try to rush your kids through their hard feelings, they feel abandoned. Comfort over coaching — that's where we live.”  —Jen Hatmaker “I'm not your leader. I'm your sister. This book isn't a prescription. It's my story handed to you with open hands.”  —Jen Hatmaker “Sometimes the worst thing that ever happens ends up becoming the best thing. Not because of the pain — but because of the life that blooms afterward.” —Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/440b5YW Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan –  https://amzn.to/4an9rUX The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan – https://amzn.to/49Xueyt Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast – https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Who Is Government?: The Untold Story of Public Service by Michael Lewis – https://amzn.to/4pLC3Md Guest's Links: Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kelly.corrigan.376 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@kellycorriganvideo Podcast - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  Listen in as Jen and Kelly discuss: To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this special Road Tripping episode, Jen invites her partner, actor/activist/author Tyler Merritt, to join her live after a last-minute schedule pivot. What unfolds is a night of honesty, hilarity, vulnerability, and deep connection. Jen reads two scenes from Awake—one from the earliest days of shock and grief, and one from the chaotic, hilarious adventure of dating again at midlife. She shares the moment her body finally allowed her to grieve, the unexpected relief that followed, and how storytelling helped rebuild her life from the inside out. Tyler joins her onstage and opens up about his own journey: discovering creativity as a kid in a sports household, what midlife has taught him, how his rare cancer diagnosis reshaped his priorities, and how their love story began on a night in New York City neither saw coming. He and Jen talk candidly about walking through illness together, finding joy even in hard seasons, and why Awake speaks to all genders—not just women. This episode is tender, funny, surprising, and deeply human—a reminder that grief can crack us open in ways that eventually let the light back in. ★ “My body bypassed my mind and gave itself the gift of grief.” — Jen Hatmaker (reading from Awake) ★ “If creativity is in you, you can't get rid of it. It will find its way out.” — Tyler Merritt (on discovering his storytelling voice) ★ “Middle age shortens your alphabet — you just have fewer Fs to give.” — Tyler Merritt (describing midlife clarity) ★ “You don't just get my story of cancer — you get yours, because you chose to love me.” — Tyler Merritt (on his cancer journey and their relationship) ★ “Some of the hardest things you've ever been through? You made it. You're still here.” — Tyler Merritt (reflecting on resilience and survival) ➢ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rjitZ7➢ This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don't Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4ilNtnh➢ Simple Habit meditation app (referenced in the grief scene) - https://www.simplehabit.com/➢ Corey Muscara (meditation guide Jen listened to) – https://corymuscara.com/➢ The Tyler Merritt Project – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/➢ Waitress: The Musical (where Jen and Tyler first met) – https://waitressthemusical.com/ Website – https://thetylermerrittproject.com/Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/Twitter – https://x.com/ttmprojectFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittprojectYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Jen's Website – https://jenhatmaker.com/Jen's Instagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter – https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/Jen's Facebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. Thought-provoking Quotes:Resources Mentioned in This Episode:Guest's Links:Connect with Jen! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Tune in for this very special #JenHatmakerBookClub episode where Jen gives unprecedented access to look behind the scenes at her own writing process and collaboration that went into the publishing of “Awake”. For today's conversation, Jen sits down with Vice President and Editorial Director for Avid Reader Press, Lauren Wein, to delve into the journey of bringing Jen's book "Awake" to the page and all the way to the New York Times bestseller list. Jen discusses the profound impact of trusting your own intuition in your writing along with the challenges in memoir-writing of prioritizing authenticity and vulnerability while honoring the privacy for those involved. Lauren pulls back the curtain on the collaborative nature of the editing process, describing the satisfaction she finds with helping authors find their voice. And Jen shares the one truth she hopes every reader of “Awake” walks away with. Anyone who is interested in writing, or the behind-the-scenes or book-making will enjoy this episode.  Whether you're a writer or a reader, this conversation offers a unique glimpse into the creative process and the power of storytelling. Thought-provoking Quotes: “One of the things that Awake is about is learning to trust yourself and trusting your body. I feel like that is how I edit. It's like a tuning fork. I sense when something is like, need more or need less. It's physical.” – Lauren Wein “Every story deserves authenticity.” – Jen Hatmaker “In the war of ‘you versus you', nobody wins, because you're very hard on yourself. You have a very critical inner voice. When you hear somebody tell you something that you maybe sensed about yourself but you didn't quite know, it ignites something, it confirms something that maybe you sensed was there but the voice was too small because the other voices were just louder.” – Lauren Wein “Finding your voice is a journey.” – Lauren Wein “When this book was first announced, it was erroneously referred to as a tell-all, which was upsetting to all of us because that is absolutely not what it is. What was very important to you (Jen) was honesty, not telling it all, but being truthful and respecting other people's privacy. Now that is the hardest line to walk when you're writing your own story because your own story is not your own story entirely.” – Lauren Wein "Trust your intuition in creative work." – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the parents who are slogging through May – https://jenhatmaker.com/blog/for-the-parents-who-are-slogging-through-may/ Margaret Riley King - https://www.wmebookdepartment.com/team/margaret-riley-king/ Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed by Lori Gottleib - https://amzn.to/4pUADj8 Wild Game: My Mother, Her Secret, and Me by Adrienne Brodeur - https://amzn.to/4nywiRc Becoming Duchess Goldblatt by Anonymous - https://amzn.to/4o6rHpt Awake by Jen Hatmaker audiobook - https://amzn.to/4gU7v7P Lights on a Similar Path: ‘Awake' Readers Reflect On Finding Their Way - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/lights-on-a-similar-path-awake-readers-reflect-on-finding-their-way/ Guest's Links: Website - https://editors.simonandschuster.com/editor/wein-lauren/ Twitter - https://x.com/desideratasaur Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lauren.wein.1/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Allie dismantles “feminist” smears on X over her Turning Point LSU speech, boldly affirming women's biblical roles: prioritizing home, submitting in marriage, serving in church, and speaking truth publicly. Scripture, not culture, defines womanhood. She also lifts up Angel City FC's Elizabeth Eddy in her fight for women's sports and keeping trans ideology off the soccer field. Join us to reject judgment, embrace God's design, and live with fearless faith in every sphere. Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Timecodes: (00:00) Intro (03:10) Turning Point USA Speech (13:15) Most Common Criticisms (17:40) Mislabeled as a "Feminist" (24:40) Jubilee Debate Performance (29:55) Biblical Response (40:10) Power of Self-Control (51:20) Encouragement to Women (1:00:00) Elizabeth Eddy --- Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GoodRanchers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and subscribe to any of their boxes (but preferably the Allie Beth Stuckey Box) to get free Waygu burgers, hot dogs, bacon, or chicken wings in every box for life. Plus, you'll get $40 off when you use code ALLIE at checkout. Jase Medical — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jase.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and enter code “ALLIE” at checkout for a discount on your order. Pre-Born — Will you help rescue babies' lives? Donate by calling #250 & say keyword 'BABY' or go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Preborn.com/ALLIE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Fellowship Home Loans — Fellowship Home Loans is a mortgage lending company that offers home financing solutions while integrating Christian values such as honesty, integrity, and stewardship. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://fellowshiphomeloans.com/allie⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get up to $500 credit towards closing costs when you finance with Fellowship Home Loans. Constitution Wealth Management — Let's discover what faithful stewardship looks like in your life. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠Constitutionwealth.com/Allie⁠⁠⁠⁠ for a free consultation. --- Episodes you might like: Ep 1260 | Charlie Kirk's Replacement & Jen Hatmaker's Shocking Paganism https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000734097800 Ep 1254 | Jubilee Reaction: How to Debate 20 Liberal Christians https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000732041086 Ep 1236 | Mom of 10 on How to Order Your Day & Raise Godly Kids | Abbie Halberstadt https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1236-mom-of-10-on-how-to-order-your-day-raise/id1359249098?i=1000724064460 Ep 796 | Former Lesbian Activist Calls “Soft” Christians to Repentance | Guest: Rosaria Butterfield https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-796-former-lesbian-activist-calls-soft-christians/id1359249098?i=1000610921016 --- Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://alliebethstuckey.com/book⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, Allie honors Charlie Kirk's legacy at LSU, sharing five controversial truths he championed, including Jesus as the only way. She rejects media framing her as his “heir,” staying true to her calling. However, the Wall Street Journal is finally realizing that Christian women are banding together after witnessing Share the Arrows. Plus, Jen Hatmaker's New Age lies exposed — your body isn't God. And we tackle rising fears over Islam's dominance. Join us to reject deception and stand boldly for Christ's truth. Watch the full replay of the 2025 Share the Arrows conference exclusively on BlazeTV today. You can get a discount on your BlazeTV subscription now by going to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BlazeTV.com/Allie⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Timecodes: 0:40 - Introduction3:55 - Allie's TPUSA Speech at LSU 15:16 - Replacing Charlie Kirk?22:45 - Reading the WSJ Article33:44 - Addressing 'Women shouldn't be spreading the Gospel'37:42 - Jen Hatmaker in Oprah Magazine49:55 - What is your biggest national/political concern? --- Today's Sponsors: A'del — Try A'del's hand-crafted, artisan, small-batch cosmetics and use promo code ALLIE 25% off your first time purchase at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠⁠⁠⁠AdelNaturalCosmetics.com⁠⁠ Shopify — Shopify is the commerse platform behind millions of businesses around the world. Get started with your own design studio to turn your big business idea into profit. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠⁠shopify.com/allie⁠⁠ to sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling with Shopify today! Pre-Born — Will you help rescue babies' lives? Donate by calling #250 & say keyword 'BABY' or go to ⁠⁠⁠Preborn.com/ALLIE⁠⁠⁠. Seven Weeks Coffee — Experience the best coffee while supporting the pro-life movement with Seven Weeks Coffee; use code ALLIE at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to save up to 25% off your first order, plus your free gift! Samaritan's Purse — Operation Christmas Child is the world's largest Christmas project of its kind & its mission is to demonstrate God's love in a tangible way to children in need around the world & to share the Good News of Jesus Christ. Will you join Operation Christmas Child this season by packing shoebox gifts or building shoebox gifts online? Go to SamaritansPurse.org/OCC to learn how to pack a shoebox! --- Episodes you might like: Ep 1255 | Jihad vs. Jesus: Islam's Plan to Conquer Christian America | Raymond Ibrahim https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000732327165 Ep 1206 | The Harsh Reality of Being an IVF Baby | Jennifer Lahl https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1206-the-harsh-reality-of-being-an-ivf-baby-jennifer-lahl/id1359249098?i=1000713487730 Ep 819 | Jen Hatmaker Commemorates Her Divorce from Evangelicalism https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-819-jen-hatmaker-commemorates-her-divorce-from-evangelicalism/id1359249098?i=1000616187052 --- Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://alliebethstuckey.com/book⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Each of us has something we're pretending not to know—an inner voice that whispers: We're in trouble. Join us for a raw conversation with Jen Hatmaker on:  the cost of ignoring the trouble in her 25-year marriage; the night she heard her husband on the phone with his girlfriend; and  the freedom she found when she finally embraced the truth. About Jen: Jen Hatmaker is a bestselling author, award-winning podcaster, and fierce advocate for women living in freedom and agency. With 14 books—including four New York Times bestsellers—she reaches millions with her signature mix of humor, vulnerability, and wisdom. Her newest book, AWAKE: A Memoir, is out now, and chronicles her raw, real-time journey through the shocking end of her 26-year marriage and surprising reinvention. She lives in a creaky old farmhouse, loves 90s country, and drinks Almond Joy creamer like it's a personality trait. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow   Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

The former evangelical star on waking up halfway through her life. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.