POPULARITY
120 episodes with southeast christian church
12 episodes with southeast christian church
4 episodes with southeast christian church
4 episodes with southeast christian church
4 episodes with southeast christian church
5 episodes with southeast christian church
2 episodes with southeast christian church
3 episodes with southeast christian church
2 episodes with southeast christian church
In this impactful message from guest speaker Carl Kuhl, we dive into 1 Peter 2 to explore how our true identity in Christ shapes the way we live. Carl challenges us to see ourselves the way God does: a hungry infant craving spiritual nourishment, a living stone built on Jesus, and a royal priest invited into God's presence. When we understand who we really are, it changes how we engage with the world around us.This sermon was recorded live at Trace Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, a growing church focused on helping people live a God-first life and make an impact in their community.Carl Kuhl is a pastor, author, and church planter passionate about helping people find freedom in Jesus. He and his wife Lindsay co-founded Mosaic Christian Church in 2008, which became one of the fastest-growing churches in the country. Today, Carl serves as an executive pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Kentucky, helping lead ministries across 13 campuses. He and Lindsay have four amazing kids and love exploring new places, especially the Rocky Mountains near Colorado Springs.
Welcome to the Pinkleton Pull-Aside Podcast. On this podcast, let's step aside from our busy lives to have fun, fascinating life giving conversation with inspiring authors, pastors, sports personalities and other influencers, leaders and followers. Sit back, grab some coffee, or head down the road and let's get the good and the gold from today's guest. Our host is Jeff Pinkleton, Executive Director of the Gathering of the Miami Valley, where their mission is to connect men to men, and men to God. You can reach Jeff at GatheringMV.org or find him on Facebook at The Gathering of the Miami Valley.Kyle Idleman is a bestselling author and the senior pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, one of the largest churches in America. He's most widely known for his award-winning book, not a fan., which has sold more than 1.3 million copies and has sparked a movement among believers. Kyle has authored other books including: One at a Time, The End of Me, gods at war, Grace Is Greater and Don't Give Up. Kyle and his wife DesiRae have four children and live on a farm where he does no farming.
My guest today waited three years to adopt—and then welcomed three kids in three years through domestic adoption. In this episode, Emily shares her story and her growing understanding of the both/and of adoption. God has used that to deepen her relationships with her children's birth family as well as to serve foster and adoptive families through her church. Her encouragement is that we would not walk the foster or adoption journey alone. Lean into God, he sees and understands! Lean into others, and find encouragement and strength to keep going. Emily Cook is on staff with Southeast Christian Church in Kentucky. To learn more about their foster and adoption ministry, visit https://www.southeastchristian.org/foster-and-adoption. To connect with Emily, email her at ecook@secc.org. I am a Connected Families certified parent coach offering small groups for moms, individual parent coaching, and workshops. To learn more, head to https://www.lyssastoyko.com/ Help other mamas find encouragement through Moms Take Ten by rating and reviewing this show. That would be a blessing to both them and me. Thank you for your time! Want to say hello? Follow me on Facebook and Insta @lyssastoyko Email me at momstaketen@gmail.com
Note: I have listeners of all faith backgrounds that listen to the podcast. This episode is coming from a christian perspective so if that's something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episode that dropped this week or join me back here next week for a conversation that you don't want to miss!-------------------------------What if you could break free from the toxic thought patterns that keep you stuck, drained, and held back? In this powerful episode, bestselling author and pastor Kyle Idleman shares insights from his new book Every Thought Captive: Calm the Mental Chaos That Keeps You Stuck, Drains Your Hope, and Holds You Back. Drawing from both Scripture and neuroscience, Kyle unpacks how renewing your mind—through intentional thinking and the power of God's truth—can lead to lasting mental, emotional, and spiritual transformation. He offers practical tools for recognizing and redirecting destructive thoughts like insecurity, offense, and despair, and emphasizes the importance of community and speaking God's Word out loud. If you're feeling overwhelmed, anxious, or just hungry for clarity and freedom, this conversation will inspire you to invite the Holy Spirit into your thought life and experience real change from the inside out.Take a brief survey for the show to influence future episodes.Links Discussed in This Episode |Connect with Kyle:WebsiteInstagramX AccountFacebookAbout Kyle|Kyle Idleman is the senior pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, one of the largest churches in America. On a normal weekend, he speaks to more than thirty thousand people spread across fifteen campuses. More than anything else, Kyle enjoys unearthing the teachings of Jesus and making them relevant in people's lives. He is a frequent speaker for national conventions and influential churches across the country. Kyle and his wife, DesiRae, have been married for over thirty years. They have four children, two sons-in-law, and three grandchildren. They live on a farm in Kentucky, where Kyle doesn't do any actual farming.Episode Sponsors |Clear Intentions would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal!Enjoy the Podcast?Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity.Questions |You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook.Checkout the Minimalist Moms Podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane.If you've been struggling with motivation to declutter or work through bad habits that keep you stuck, I'd love to help you achieve your goals! We'll work together (locally or virtually) to discover what areas in your life are high priority to get you feeling less overwhelmed right away. For more info on my processes, fees, and availability please contact!Our Sponsors:* Check out Avocado Green Mattress: https://www.avocadogreenmattress.com* Check out Blueland: https://blueland.com/clear* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/minimalist-moms-podcast2093/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
As we are on the cusp of May which is recognized as Mental Health Awareness Month, we want to highlight several mental health related conversations over the next several weeks that would afford you tangible and practical steps to enhance your awareness of the challenges so many of us face as well as find and create access to walk in a sustained freedom from those things. For that reason, we wanted to start out this Mental Health Awareness Series by understanding the power and significance of our thoughts. Did you know it’s estimated that 95% of our thoughts are subconscious? In other words, we think our thoughts without even thinking about them! However, in today’s conversation we will discuss the biblical, neurological, and emotional keys to transforming destructive patterns of thinking into a renewed mind—one thought at a time. Joining us today is bestselling author and the senior pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, one of the largest churches in America, Kyle Idleman. Kyle is the proud husband of his wife, DesiRae, and the proud father of four children where together they live on a Kentucky farm. He is most widely known for his award-winning book, not a fan., which has sold more than 1.3 million copies and has sparked a movement among believers. Kyle has authored other books including: One at aTime, The End of Me, gods at war, Grace Is Greater and Don’t Give Up. Today however we will be unpacking Kyle’s newest book, Every Thought Captive: Calm the Mental Chaos that Keeps You Stuck, Drains Your Hope, & Holds You Back. You can change your thoughts one thought at a time! Visit Kyle’s Website: https://www.kyleidleman.com/ Purchase Your Copy of Every Thought Captive: https://www.amazon.com/Every-Thought-Captive-Mental-Drains/dp/0310364035https://www.amazon.com/Every-Thought-Captive-Mental-Drains/dp/0310364035 Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
In today's episode, "A Prayer to Invest in Your Own Spiritual Growth," we explore the importance of prioritizing your spiritual journey and nurturing your relationship with God. This heartfelt prayer invites you to take intentional steps toward deepening your faith and expanding your understanding of yourself and the divine. Through this prayer, we reflect on the ways we can actively invest in our spiritual development, recognizing that growth often requires dedication, reflection, and openness to change. It serves as a reminder that nurturing our spiritual lives can lead to profound transformation and fulfillment. Key Themes: The importance of spiritual self-care Practical ways to nurture your faith Embracing change and growth in your journey Cultivating a deeper relationship with God This episode encourages listeners to take time for themselves, seeking opportunities for learning, reflection, and connection. By investing in your spiritual growth, you can experience greater peace and purpose in your life. Join us as we seek inspiration through prayer, asking for guidance and motivation to prioritize our spiritual journeys. Let this be a moment of empowerment, encouraging you to cultivate a rich and vibrant spiritual life that reflects your deepest values and aspirations. About Today's Host: Keri Eichberger is a Jesus-loving Kentucky girl. She is married to her best friend, Mike, and has a full house of five kids. After years of writing for an online audience, Keri became ordained through Southeast Christian Church, giving her life to full-time ministry. She is the author of Win Over Worry: Conquer What Shakes You and Soar With the One Who Overcomes, and has a passion for sharing faith-filled encouragement through devotional writing. Connect with Keri at KeriEichberger.com or Instagram.
Mailbag questions or topic suggestions? Text us!When conflict arises in your ministry, how do you respond? Tim Hester, Executive Pastor at Southeast Christian Church, offers a biblical framework for restoration that focuses on healing rather than punishment.Drawing from decades of experience shepherding both church staff and congregation members, Tim walks us through the delicate process of addressing sin and repairing broken relationships. The conversation provides practical wisdom on preparing your heart before difficult conversations, creating balanced environments where truth can emerge, and recognizing genuine transformation in those seeking restoration.Tim explains how youth ministers can discern when to handle situations themselves versus when to involve church leadership, always maintaining the goal of bringing people back into right relationship with God and others.Unlike harsh discipline approaches that often leave people damaged, true restoration recognizes the image of God in each person while still holding appropriate boundaries. Tim shares personal experiences that illustrate both the challenges and beauty of this process, including how one youth pastor's commitment to biblical discipleship transformed all twelve of his children's lives.For youth ministers navigating the inevitable conflicts that arise in ministry, this conversation offers hope that with prayer, biblical wisdom, and gentle persistence, restoration is possible. What's at stake isn't just resolving immediate problems, but teaching the next generation how to handle conflict in ways that honor God and preserve relationships.
In today's episode, "A Prayer to Build Purposeful Quiet Time with Your Spouse," we explore the significance of creating intentional moments of connection and stillness in your marriage. This heartfelt prayer invites you to nurture your relationship by carving out dedicated time to deepen your bond and enhance communication. Through this prayer, we reflect on the importance of slowing down in our busy lives to engage meaningfully with our partners. It serves as a reminder that purposeful quiet time fosters intimacy, understanding, and love, allowing couples to reconnect and grow together. Key Themes: The importance of quiet time in marriage Building deeper connections with your spouse Enhancing communication through intentionality Spiritual growth together as a couple This episode encourages listeners to embrace the beauty of stillness and presence with their spouses. By prioritizing these moments, you can strengthen your relationship and create a sanctuary for open dialogue and shared experiences. Join us as we seek guidance through prayer, asking for the wisdom to build purposeful quiet time in our marriages and the grace to cherish these moments of togetherness. Let this be a source of inspiration, encouraging you to cultivate love and intimacy in your spiritual journey as a couple. About Today's Host: Keri Eichberger is a Jesus-loving Kentucky girl. She is married to her best friend, Mike, and has a full house of five kids. After years of writing for an online audience, Keri became ordained through Southeast Christian Church, giving her life to full-time ministry. She is the author of Win Over Worry: Conquer What Shakes You and Soar With the One Who Overcomes, and has a passion for sharing faith-filled encouragement through devotional writing. Connect with Keri at KeriEichberger.com or Instagram.
Chris Burke teaching on 2 Chronicles 7:1-3. Below are discussion questions from his teaching:How do you refer to God, how can you be distinct in that?Tell a story where the Lord showing up was obvious in your life?What do you want your legacy to be?The clip from this week's teaching is from the docuseries, A Legacy of Faith, from Southeast Christian Church. Check out the first episode here.
Todd talks with Brad Bramer, the Executive Producer at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, KY. They talk about the importance of communicating between teams, transitioning from doing to leading and not running while on intercom.Show Notes:FILO Coaching: FILO Coaching is based on decades of church production experience and provides the specific help you need through one-on-one leadership coaching. Take the next step in your personal development, your leadership development, and your team's development to make the leap from just doing production to becoming a leader others want to follow. Set up an inquiry call to learn more at filo.org/one-on-one-leadership-coaching/.FILO 2025 Conference: Experience community with other technical artists from around the world to learn new skills and to be reminded that what you do matters. Learn more and grab your tickets at filo.org/filo2025. Don't forget, the 10% off discount code for podcast listeners is “podcast10”. Subscribe to the FILO Podcast: Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the FILO Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and be alerted any time we launch a new episode.Leave a review of the FILO Podcast: Your ratings and reviews help spread the word about the FILO Podcast to others. We'd appreciate your help! Leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Have ideas for the FILO Podcast? Email your feedback, send us your topic ideas or names of people you think we should interview! filopodcast@filo.orgFILO Emails: The best way to stay in the loop with what FILO is up to, is to sign up to receive our emails.Follow FILO on Social Media: Instagram | Facebook
Family Series: 'Building a Healthy Marriage' with Garett and Becky Wall We are continuing on in our family series with an episode on marriage and parenting with Garett and Becky Wall. These 2 are an amazing couple and team! Becky and Garett live in Louisville, Kentucky and have two children, Lily (14) and Isaac (12), who is diagnosed with Down Syndrome and Autism. Garett serves as the Connections Minister with Shine Disabilities Ministry and Becky serves with FamilyLife. Together they are raising a busy family and creating spaces to support families touched by disability. Lets listen as they share their story. Bio: Becky and Garett live in Louisville, KY and have two children, Lily (14) and Isaac (12). Shortly after their son Isaac was born, they received the news that Isaac had Down Syndrome. Just before the age of 10, Isaac was diagnosed with Autism as well. Becky serves part-time with FamilyLife - a ministry of Cru (Campus Crusade for Christ) and is a Field Staff Leader serving families and moms connected to disability. Garett serves as the Connections Minister with Shine Disabilities Ministry at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he faithfully shepherds kids, teens and adults with disabilities as well as supporting their families. Together they are raising a busy family and creating spaces to support families touched by disability to hear the hope of the Gospel and find purpose. Contacts: Becky Wall www.FamilyLife.com Garett Wall www.southeastchristianchurch.org/shine For a family raising a child with special needs, life can be difficult. There are many storms to weather and struggles to address, and we often feel isolated and alone due to the nature of our circumstances. Families have a need to connect and find resources, a need to be encouraged, and a need for hope as we walk down what can be a very hard road at times. Hope on the Hard Road Special Needs Podcast was created for this purpose. Our vision is to grow a thriving community, where families with children of all ages with special needs can feel connected, be encouraged, and find hope for the road ahead. Connect with Us: If you enjoy this podcast please share us with others and be sure to follow us so won't miss an episode. We'd love to hear from you so please leave us a comment or rating and connect with us on social media or on our website. Email us: info@hopeonthehardroad.org Website: https://hopeonthehardroad.org/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hopeonthehardroad/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hopeonthehardroad/ Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2621447987943459 Free Youtube Resource Library: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSAfvTkSy87X-fEqtVR2qvo7w9UQBuxz
¿Quiere ser más agradecido? Bob Russell, expastor de la iglesia Southeast Christian Church en Louisville, Kentucky, nos cuenta cómo servir a los “menos afortunados” puede alentar la gratitud. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/692/29
¿Quiere ser más agradecido? Bob Russell, expastor de la iglesia Southeast Christian Church en Louisville, Kentucky, nos cuenta cómo servir a los “menos afortunados” puede alentar la gratitud. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/692/29
¿Cómo vivimos en contentamiento? Bob Russell, expastor de la iglesia Southeast Christian Church en Louisville, Kentucky, se dirige a hombres y mujeres sobre la importancia de ser agradecidos. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/692/29
¿Cómo vivimos en contentamiento? Bob Russell, expastor de la iglesia Southeast Christian Church en Louisville, Kentucky, se dirige a hombres y mujeres sobre la importancia de ser agradecidos. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/692/29
All this month we have been unpacking the Bible's answers for coping with rising spiritual floodwaters. As we have considered how to NOT drown in these overwhelming waves in life, it does beg the question; what about suffering? Is it from God, is suffering the result of sin, is it just the natural consequence of our actions? Does God punish us? In today's message, Flood of Discipline, our teacher, Bob Russell, addresses this difficult subject. This month, our teacher, Bob Russell, has been unpacking how to deal with life when it gets overwhelming, much like the crush of Rising Spiritual Floodwaters. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. Today, Bob couples a wayward, rebellious prophet from the Old Testament of the Bible with a passage from the Bible's New Testament to help us wrap our minds around suffering and how to face it. So, here's Bob to help us see the Flood of Discipline through Spiritual 3-D glasses. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
It has been observed that no people in history have had ever had more possessions, better health, or greater freedom than we, yet we complain about what we don't have. It's almost like many of us are drowning in the rising flood waters of discontent! Guess what; that is NOT God's design for our lives. This month, our teacher, Bob Russell, is unpacking the empowerment of believers, via the Holy Spirit during challenging times, such as when spiritual floodwaters rise. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. Just what would it take to make us content? Perhaps a refocusing of what is important in life and death? Something deeper than just physical things? Well here's Bob Russell to offer a spiritual rescue helicopter so to speak, to lift us out of the Flood of Discontent: To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
While there is an air of anticipation as we make our way into the new year; you know; new opportunities, new events, new projects, new resolutions. But, it is January and statistics tell us mental health challenges can be significant. The short days, the long winter CAN play into dimming our outlook, perhaps ever making us feel boxed in without a clear way out? This month, our teacher, Bob Russell, is unpacking the empowerment of believers via the Holy Spirit during challenging times, such as when spiritual floodwaters rise. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. In today's message, Bob tackles the Flood of Despair. God has made it clear that He will always walk beside those who believe and acknowledge Him; in this message Bob sheds light on three things we can do to cope with the threat or flood of despair. So, here's Bob Russell with a flashlight of hope, helping us see our rescuer in the Flood of Despair To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
While there is an air of anticipation as we make our way into the new year; you know; new opportunities, new events, new projects, new resolutions. But, it is January and statistics tell us mental health challenges can be significant. The short days, the long winter CAN play into dimming our outlook, perhaps ever making us feel boxed in without a clear way out? This month, our teacher, Bob Russell, is unpacking the empowerment of believers via the Holy Spirit during challenging times, such as when spiritual floodwaters rise. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. In today's message, Bob tackles the Flood of Despair. God has made it clear that He will always walk beside those who believe and acknowledge Him; in this message Bob sheds light on three things we can do to cope with the threat or flood of despair. So, here's Bob Russell with a flashlight of hope, helping us see our rescuer in the Flood of Despair To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
It has begun!, welcome to the New Year in some ways kinda exciting; envisioning new opportunities, new events, new projects that might lie ahead. At the same time, for some of us, the very thought of dealing with the New Year can be a monumental challenge. Maybe even a bit overwhelming, kind-a like being washed over by rising floodwaters?! This month, Bob Russell is unpacking the empowerment of believers through the Holy Spirit during challenging times, such as when spiritual floodwaters rise. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. Does it ever seem to you like bad people get ahead while good people endure hardship? Almost like there is a flood of evil rising all around you? Ever wonder; where is God in all this? In today's message Bob explains how it's not time yet for God to deal with all those who are evil, yet; He promises to sustain us through the flood. So, here's Bob to throw out a life preserver for your spirit To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
It has begun!, welcome to the New Year in some ways kinda exciting; envisioning new opportunities, new events, new projects that might lie ahead. At the same time, for some of us, the very thought of dealing with the New Year can be a monumental challenge. Maybe even a bit overwhelming, kind-a like being washed over by rising floodwaters?! This month, Bob Russell is unpacking the empowerment of believers through the Holy Spirit during challenging times, such as when spiritual floodwaters rise. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. Does it ever seem to you like bad people get ahead while good people endure hardship? Almost like there is a flood of evil rising all around you? Ever wonder; where is God in all this? In today's message Bob explains how it's not time yet for God to deal with all those who are evil, yet; He promises to sustain us through the flood. So, here's Bob to throw out a life preserver for your spirit To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
The holidays will soon be over and then the New Year looms ahead. Kinda exciting, envisioning new opportunities, new events, new projects that might lie ahead. At the same time, for some, the very thought of dealing with the New Year can be a monumental challenge. Maybe even a bit overwhelming kind-a like being washed over by rising floodwaters?! This next month, Bob Russell will be unpacking the empowerment of believers through the Holy Spirit during challenging times, such as when spiritual floodwaters rise. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. Okay, ever had the feeling, like maybe you're drowning in a Flood of Doubt? In today's lesson Bob offers some practical steps in both identifying what's happening and how to combat it. So, here's Bob with a rescue boat in a flood with your name on it! To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
The holidays will soon be over and then the New Year looms ahead. Kinda exciting, envisioning new opportunities, new events, new projects that might lie ahead. At the same time, for some, the very thought of dealing with the New Year can be a monumental challenge. Maybe even a bit overwhelming kind-a like being washed over by rising floodwaters?! This next month, Bob Russell will be unpacking the empowerment of believers through the Holy Spirit during challenging times, such as when spiritual floodwaters rise. Bob Russell is a retired senior minister of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he served for 40 years as Southeast became one of the largest churches in America. Okay, ever had the feeling, like maybe you're drowning in a Flood of Doubt? In today's lesson Bob offers some practical steps in both identifying what's happening and how to combat it. So, here's Bob with a rescue boat in a flood with your name on it! To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
With everything that is always going on around us, good OR bad, God's desire for us is all good! Most of all, God wants us to take on the image He designed just for us, one that resembles His image. Given where all of us start this requires a big, big change, perhaps better described as a complete makeover, re-imaged into who He designed us to be. This week our speaker is Bob Russell., This message is one shared by Bob during his 40-year ministry with Southeast Christian Church. Southeast, one of the largest churches in America is located in Louisville, Kentucky. This week's message; The Grace of Gratitude is a fitting conclusion to our series ReImaged. Have you ever noticed that some of the most thankful people are those who have the least? You might observe; the origin of a thankful heart is not so much special things that happens to us, as it is a conscious decision to appreciate the life God has given us. So, as we celebrate the holiday of Thanksgiving, here's Bob Russell with a recipe for gratitude that can be, well, life changing! To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
With everything that is always going on around us, good OR bad, God's desire for us is all good! Most of all, God wants us to take on the image He designed just for us, one that resembles His image. Given where all of us start this requires a big, big change, perhaps better described as a complete makeover, re-imaged into who He designed us to be. This week our speaker is Bob Russell., This message is one shared by Bob during his 40-year ministry with Southeast Christian Church. Southeast, one of the largest churches in America is located in Louisville, Kentucky. This week's message; The Grace of Gratitude is a fitting conclusion to our series ReImaged. Have you ever noticed that some of the most thankful people are those who have the least? You might observe; the origin of a thankful heart is not so much special things that happens to us, as it is a conscious decision to appreciate the life God has given us. So, as we celebrate the holiday of Thanksgiving, here's Bob Russell with a recipe for gratitude that can be, well, life changing! To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
Special Guest Brad Bramer In this insightful episode of the Churchfront Worship and Tech Podcast, Luke interviews Brad Bramer, Executive Producer at Southeast Christian Church, about the vital role of prayer, team unity, and effective communication in ministry. Brad shares his perspectives on balancing technical excellence and ministry values, managing resources, improving leadership, and fostering a collaborative environment across multiple campuses. From addressing infrastructure challenges to innovative practices in worship and production, this conversation offers valuable takeaways for ministry leaders and tech teams alike. 00:00 The Power of Prayer in Ministry 01:11 Introduction to Brad Bramer 02:30 Brad's Journey to Southeast Christian Church 04:40 Building Unity in Creative and Technical Teams 07:34 Overcoming Divisiveness Through Curiosity 09:56 Practical Steps for Team Integration 12:26 The Importance of Communication and Prayer 15:33 Navigating Feedback and Growth in Ministry 23:51 Maintaining Spiritual Focus in Technical Roles 25:21 Overview of Southeast Christian Church 25:41 Technical Aspects of Multi-Campus Church Services 27:14 Empowerment and Flexibility in Worship 28:08 Streamlining Worship with Technology 29:26 Balancing Consistency and Creativity 31:57 Communication and Coordination Challenges 33:39 Maintaining Simplicity and Efficiency 36:05 Standardizing Systems Across Campuses 38:48 Creating and Sharing Content 44:19 Handling Technical Issues and Encouraging Growth 48:54 Final Thoughts and Contact Information Apply to Join Churchfront.com https://churchfront.me/apply Free Worship and Production Toolkit: https://churchfront.me/toolkit Shop Our Online Courses: https://churchfront.me/courses Join us at the Churchfront Live Conference: https://churchfront.me/conference Beginner Church Sound Course: https://churchfront.me/church-sound Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront: https://kit.co/churchfront/youtube-setup • • • • • Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN
To what extent should Christians be engaged in politics? Do Christians have a responsibility to vote? And what if there are two bad choices at the top of the ticket? Joining us to discuss this issue further is pastor and author Bob Russell. Bob is the former pastor of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, the author of a number of books, and has a mentorship ministry to younger pastors. To view CPC Election resources, including voter guides, candidate forums, and information on Amendment 2, go to www.commonwealthpolicycenter.org/24general If you would like to interview Richard Nelson, Executive Director of the Commonwealth Policy Center, please email richard@commonwealthpolicy.org. Like and Follow us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/commonwealthpolicy Follow us on Twitter: @CPC4Kentucky LinkedIn: Commonwealth Policy Center E-Newsletter: https://www.commonwealthpolicycenter.org/mailing-list/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/commonwealth-matters/support
In this episode of the Parenting Great Kids podcast, renowned parenting expert Dr. Meg Meeker welcomes Kyle Idleman, senior pastor at Southeast Christian Church and best-selling author. Together, they explore the common struggle many parents face: prioritizing productivity over building meaningful connections with their children. Drawing from his book When Your Way Isn't Working, Kyle shares valuable insights from his own experience, emphasizing the importance of connection in both parenting and personal growth. Key Moments: 00:00 Introduction to Parenting Challenges 00:39 Meet Kyle Eidelman: Author and Pastor 01:13 The Journey of Writing the Book 03:27 Production vs. Connection: A Dichotomy 05:17 Personal Struggles and Realizations 06:06 The Role of an Executive Coach 15:27 The Importance of Asking for Help 24:06 The Vine and the Branches: A Biblical Perspective 33:21 Practical Tips for Parents and Executives 35:29 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Need parenting advice? Grab one of Dr. Meg's coaching spots here. Watch today's episode
On today's show, we chat with Dave Stone!For 30 years, Dave Stone preached at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky. During his 13 years as Senior Pastor the weekend attendance grew from 18,000 at one campus to 27,000 at seven campuses. He serves on Boards for Spire, Focus on the Family and the Rawlings Foundation and is on the Teaching Team for CCV in Phoenix, AZ. Dave has a heart for people and a passion for families. He and Beth have three children and ten grandchildren. When Dave speaks he has the unique ability to touch both your heart and your funny bone. @christianmusicguys
It's our favorite time of year! Summertime at The Compass Church! Join us as we hear from some friends of The Compass.This week Bob Russell, former pastor of Southeast Christian Church joins us to show us God's plan for keeping calm in troubling times.Let us know you're here! If you have a need or prayer request we can support you: thecompass.net/connectioncardIf you call The Compass your church home or you'd like to partner with us in what God is doing here, near, and far, you can visit thecompass.net/give
I'm thrilled to have Kyle Idleman from Southeast Christian Church as my guest. Kyle is the one who planted Real Life Church. As we sat down, I learned more about Kyle's experience growing up under the microscope as a pastor's kid—something my daughters can relate to. Kyle shared how being open and authentic can be a catalyst for better connections with your people. We also talked about his new book, "One at a Time." Kyle shares some great insights in this episode that I hope are helpful for you too. Don't miss it!Social Media:Website: https://www.kyleidleman.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kyleidleman/X: https://x.com/kyleidlemanInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/kyleidleman/?hl=enBooks:WHEN YOUR WAY ISN'T WORKING: FIND GREATER REST, DEPTH, AND CONNECTION IN YOUR LIFE. https://www.kyleidleman.com/when-your-way-isnt-workingPurchase Rusty's Friend of God book: https://pastorrustygeorge.square.site/product/friend-of-god/155
The Bible talks about how Jesus exemplified serving, sacrifice, and humbly following His Father's lead. But Jesus also demonstrated a strength of leadership that left those around Him in awe. Following Christ, the Apostle Peter picked up more than a few pointers about what makes a great leader, a great follower, these, he shares, in the 5th chapter of his book of 1st Peter. A Reason to Lead, A Reason to Follow is the 5th and final installment of this month's series of messages, entitled Finding Your Way in a Whatever World. The series was shared by Bob Russell during his 40-year ministry with Southeast Christian Church, located in Louisville, Kentucky. According to Peter, leadership, followership, can be best exemplified by taking a look at the relationship between a shepherd and his sheep. So here's Bob Russell with insights from Shepherds, sheep, and would you believe roaring lions? To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
If God Is all loving and all powerful why do bad things happen when you're trying to do things right? Why do the righteous suffer while the unrighteous prosper? Where is the justice of God? The apostle Simon Peter tackled these difficult questions when he wrote about the reason for suffering in 1 Peter chapter 4. A Reason to Suffer is part 4 of this month's series of messages, entitled Finding Your Way in a Whatever World. The series was shared by Bob Russell during his 40-year ministry with Southeast Christian Church. Southeast, one of the largest churches in America is located in Louisville, Kentucky. According to the Apostle Peter, pain comes from 5 sources So here's Bob Russell to help us unpack God's perspective for that pain, and helps give us insight to help deal with pain that puts plain ole' aspirin to shame! To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
Want to believe our lives have purpose? Many years ago the Apostle Peter wrote a book about the Life driven by purpose. You don't discover the meaning of your life looking within yourself or indulging in pleasure. You must begin with God, your creator. You were made by God and for God. And until we understand this, life doesn't make sense We were made to last forever! This series of messages, taken from the Bible's book of 1 Peter, is entitled Finding Your Way in a Whatever World. And the series was shared by Bob Russell during his 40-year ministry with Southeast Christian Church. Southeast, one of the largest churches in America is located in Louisville, Kentucky. So, trying to get a fix on the meaning, the purpose of life: Here's Bob Russell with a lesson on God's eternal purpose for our lives; more than just a reason to get out of bed in the morning, our ultimate reason for living, our reason for Hope! To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
Garett Wall: Dad Series “Shining as a Dad” with Garett Wall I'm so excited to have Garett Wall back with us today on the podcast. Garett joins us as we are in our Dads Series today. Garett is the Dad of a son with Down Syndrome and Autism so he really understands the journey. He serves as the Connections Minister with Shine Disabilities Ministry at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky. He faithfully shepherds kids, teens and adults with disabilities as well as supporting their families. Garett is a graduate of Murray State University in Murray, KY, Garett worked for nearly 20 years in athletic media relations at both Murray State and the University of Louisville before God redirected his career path into disability ministry in 2019. A native of Dover, Tennessee, Garett is married to Becky and they have two children, Lily and Isaac. Connect with Garett Wall Shine Ministry 502.253.8129 gwall@secc.org Shine Ministry Facebook Page Connect with Us: If you enjoy this podcast please share us with others and be sure to follow us so won't miss an episode. We'd love to hear from you so please leave us a comment or rating and connect with us on social media or on our website. Email us Website: Instagram Facebook: Facebook Group Free Youtube Resource Library
There's more to the Christian life, than many believers are experiencing. Some folks are just satisfied with being saved, but, according to this month's speaker, Bob Russell; salvation is much more than just an eternal fire insurance policy. In fact, the apostle Peter contends in his book of 1 Peter; It isn't just about getting to heaven it's about getting heaven into you. This series of messages, taken from the Bible's book of 1 Peter, is entitled Finding Your Way in a Whatever World. And the series was shared by Bob Russell during his 40-year ministry with Southeast Christian Church. Southeast, one of the largest churches in America is located in Louisville, Kentucky. So, ready to dig a little deeper? here's Bob with 3 areas where deepening our spiritual roots can lead us to the abundant life that God wants to give us To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
What' your support system when life falls apart? What keeps you going when life gets desperate? This month our teacher, Bob Russell unpacks a letter of hope written to people living in times of despair. This series of messages, taken from the Bible's book of 1 Peter, is entitled Finding Your Way in a Whatever World. And the series was shared by Bob Russell during his 40 year ministry with Southeast Christian Church. Southeast, one of the largest churches in America is located in Louisville, Kentucky. In today's message from First Peter 1, the Apostle Peter opens his letter writing about the Christians ultimate hope in Christ. Peter contends followers of Christ are strangers in this world, citizens of another country, an eternal country and as such a Christian's roots shouldn't be too deep in this world. So, with 5 reasons for being positive and hopeful in a spiritually indifferent world. Here's Bob Russell To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/326/29
How do you have multiple departments collaborate, communicate and coordinate well? Brad Bramer is the Worship and Creative arts Executive Producer at Southeast Christian Church and he joins us to discuss how multiple church departments can work in concert to achieve an overarching vision. In this episode you'll hear: 1:00 What is Toby reading right now? 5:00 Toby's literary confession 6:40 Brad Bramer joins us! 10:55 “I was forcibly removed from Ryan Secrest” 16:45 Leading the Church Production Team at Southeast Christian Church19:00 Should worship and tech be one team or two?23:00 How does the production team communicate with leadership?31:25 Be curious, not skeptical 34:30 What's it like running church production at Southeast Christian Church? 37:48 Big AVL projects at Southeast Christian Church right now 39:20 How do you communicate production costs to church leadership? 41:00 Disaster story: Brad is suddenly a video director! 46:15 Tech Takeaway on Jesus and Reading the Manual Resources for your Church Tech MinistryDoes your church have used gear that you need to convert into new ministry dollars? We can make you an offer here. Do you need some production gear but lack the budget to buy new gear? You can get Certified Church Owned gear here. Connect with us: Follow us on FacebookHang out with us on InstagramSee all the ways we can serve your church on our WebsiteGet our best gear sent to your inbox each Monday before it goes public via the Early ServiceWe are looking for highly relational people to be ChurchGear ambassadors across the nation to help us meet unmet needs in church production. We want experienced church production enthusiasts to help us provide solutions for selling and buying used gear directly to and from the doorsteps of the local church.Check out the full job description and Apply Here!
Dave Stone, former Senior Pastor of Southeast Christian Church, talks with Chad and Kurt about one of his favorite subjects - parenting. Dave has written three books on the subject. He explains that a Dad's role in the family is crucial in raising Godly children, but don't let that overwhelm you. In Dave's words - “God is more interested in your direction than in your perfection.” (This is a repeat episode from 2016 - enjoy!)
Dave Stone, former Senior Pastor of Southeast Christian Church, talks with Chad and Kurt about one of his favorite subjects - parenting. Dave has written three books on the subject. He explains that a Dad's role in the family is crucial in raising Godly children, but don't let that overwhelm you. In Dave's words - “God is more interested in your direction than in your perfection.” (This is a repeat episode from 2016 - enjoy!)
In the motion picture 'Ordinary Angels,' Oscar-winning actress Hilary Swank portrays Sharon Evans, a hair dresser in a small town who works miracles to help a little girl named Michelle get a liver transplant. Sharon and Ashley Schmitt, Michelle's older sister join Paul to talk about the film on the 89th episode of The Paul Cardall Podcast. Not included in the film is Ashley's own journey getting a double organ transplant like her sister Michelle. Both Sharon and Ashely share additional experiences that are also not in the film. READ THE BOOK https://encouragepublishing.com/ordinary-angels SEE THE MOVIEhttps://ordinaryangels.movie/ STORY BEHIND THE FILMMichelle Schmitt was known in Louisville, Kentucky as the “snow baby.” The Schmitts waited for over two years for a liver transplant for Michelle, who was battling congenital liver disease. She was born with biliary atresia, the same condition as her sister Ashley. They finally got the long-awaited call on January 17, 1994, when Michelle was three years old and barely 22 pounds. A liver was available, but it was in Omaha, Nebraska. And it was in the middle of a snowstorm. And not just any snowstorm. This was the 1994 Kentucky Blizzard, where temperatures dropped to a record-breaking 22 degrees below zero. There were 16 inches of snow on the ground. Driving would be impossible. Highways were buried and completely shut down. Organs for transplant don't last long outside a body, so there was a short window of time to get Michelle to Omaha for the procedure. This real-life story of a community rallying around a young child is the basis for ORDINARY ANGELS. The film primarily follows hairdresser Sharon, who led the charge in moving the community and re-discovered purpose in her life by fighting for little Michelle. Before the storm hit, Sharon had secured a private plane to take Michelle to Omaha whenever the transplant would be ready. The plan was to drive Michelle to Indiana for the private jet to take her the rest of the way—but now in blizzard conditions, that would be impossible. Sharon immediately called the local radio station and requested that broadcasters ask for help. Suddenly, neighbors called in suggesting they clear the parking lot at Southeast Christian Church to create a makeshift helicopter pad. People took to the streets with their snowsuits and shovels and garden spades—whatever they had available. The Schmitts arrived just in time: grandmother Barbara, father Ed, Michelle, and her older sister Ashley, who'd also undergone the same transplant surgery years before. In a remarkable true story of community care and selflessness, Michelle Schmitt made it safely to Omaha during the storm and successfully received her transplant. She lived to be 30 years old and had a healthy life until she passed away in the spring of 2021. ABOUT OUR HOSTPaul Cardall, an acclaimed Dove Award-winning musician, composer, and producer, is renowned for his music that acts as a conduit to tranquility and spiritual introspection. Boasting over 3 billion lifetime streams, 11 No. 1 Billboard albums, and recognition as one of the world's premier pianists by Steinway & Sons, Paul's diverse repertoire spans Classical, Christian, and New Age genres. His extraordinary journey includes overcoming health challenges, notably being born with half a heart and undergoing a life-saving heart transplant in 2009. Inspired by his experiences, Paul has dedicated his life's mission to crafting healing piano music that resonates physically and emotionally. Beyond his musical accomplishments, he actively engages in philanthropy, collaborating with organizations such as The Ryan Seacrest Foundation and supporting causes like the fight against human trafficking. His album, "Return Home," showcases 13 improvisational piano pieces, a departure from his usual compositional approach. It invites listeners on a cinematic voyage through the landscapes of his European heritage. The album, inspired by his deep connection with his wife Tina and their journey through her family's homeland in Slovenia, underscores the power of music to connect us to our past. It serves as a testament to Paul Cardall's enduring impact as an artist and empathetic soul. WEBSITE: http://www.paulcardall.comINSTAGRAM: http://www.instagram.com/paulcardallFACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/paulcardallmusicYOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/cardall Show your support by subscribing to the podcast. Please leave a review.
While the release of the film, "Ordinary Angels" might bring some extra notoriety to his life, there has always been more to Dave Stone than meets the eye. A pastor at Louisville's Southeast Christian Church for three decades, Dave is first and foremost a man of God, a husband, and a dad. So, he understands the challenges men and fathers are facing today. And he still has a passion for helping men experience all that God has for them. Watch Ordinary Angels
Welcome to a truly special episode of The Ryan Frank Podcast! In this captivating installment, join Ryan as he engages in a heartfelt conversation with Pastor Dave Stone, esteemed former Senior Pastor of Southeast Christian Church. Prepare to be enthralled as they unveil the mesmerizing story behind the highly anticipated film, "Journey to Bethlehem." With intimate firsthand insights and profound reflections, Pastor Dave shares his personal connection to this real-life narrative, offering a perspective that is both unique and deeply moving. Get ready to journey into the very heart of this cinematic masterpiece and witness how this tale of Christmas goes far beyond the boundaries of the screen, leaving an indelible mark on the lives it touches. But the conversation doesn't end there. Together, they explore the themes of church life, empathy, and the transformative power that lies in embracing the needs of others. This enriching dialogue effortlessly weaves together the magic of cinema with the timeless lessons of faith and community. Don't miss out on this extraordinary encounter that is sure to leave you inspired, enlightened, and ready to embrace the profound significance of "Journey to Bethlehem" in your own life. Tune in now and prepare to be swept away by the sheer power of this life-changing narrative.Welcome to the Ryan Frank podcastRyan is a family man, first and foremost, but he's also a pastor, publisher, and serial entrepreneur. This podcast will help you think, work, and create like never before.You can subscribe for more productivity, and life hacks to help you stay on the leading edge.
As I said in the last episode, I've been working on the Selling Jesus project, which is now well underway with a ton of content. Please check out the website sellingJesus.org and you'll find enough reading material to keep you busy all Christmas vacation. Also, it would mean the world to me if you would help boost the views of the first Selling Jesus video on YouTube, which is on the homepage of sellingJesus.org, and share it around. I'll be releasing the next long video in the series soon, so make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel. Selling Jesus is also a podcast, so if you'd rather listen to the articles on the website, you can do that on the podcast. There's already a lot of content on there, and we post more every week. In this episode I'm highlighting the ministry of Pioneer Bible Translators, and I'm joined by Tim MacSaveny who was kind enough to share the ins and outs of his organization. My hope is that this will be helpful for those who don't know much about PBT and want to find out more, especially those who are trying to navigate the differences between all the BT orgs and decide who to join. Tim is married to Erin, they have four kids, and they've served with PBT since 2008. Currently they live in Louisville, KY. Tim and Erin facilitate Bible translation for two projects in two different countries. The first is a people group living in southeastern Tanzania. Tim travels to Tanzania three times a year to meet face-to-face with the translation team, while working remotely throughout the year. The second project involves a diaspora group who have experienced significant tribal and political attacks in their home area of eastern Congo. Many of them now live in the US. This project is currently being hosted at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where the MacSavenys now live. Tim and Erin, along with their children Rose, Everett, Julian, and Lucy, have served with Pioneer Bible Translators since 2008. tim.macsaveny@pbti.org Visit https://pioneerbible.org/ to find out more. workingfortheword.com | my books | twitter | music | Hebrew | academic articles | facebook | contact | download all episodes for offline
In a world of shallow relationships how do you foster a disciple-making culture?Our guest today, Ronnie Cordrey, the Men's Pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, KY, discusses some key principles for creating a culture of discipleship among men in any ministry context.Whether you're a pastor, a men's ministry leader, or simply a guy who wants to start discipling other men, this interview is for you! RESOURCES:SoutheastChristianChurch.orgContact Ronnie: rcordrey@secc.orgContact Mike Hatch: mhatch@clchq.orgOrder Mike's book, Manhood: Empowered by the Light of the GospelJoin the Empowered Manhood Facebook GroupCLC Website: https://www.clchq.org/Contact Chris Bolinger: https://chrisbolinger.com/author/Chris' Devotionals:Daily Strength for Men: A 365-Day Devotional52 Weeks of Strength for Men
Ministry Series: "Shine Ministry" with Garett Wall Today we are talking about Special needs ministry. We are so blessed to have Garett Wall on the podcast with us. Garett serves as the Connections Minister with Shine Disabilities Ministry at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, where he faithfully shepherds kids, teens and adults with disabilities and their families. As the father of a kiddo with Down syndrome and autism, Garett is thankful for the ways the Lord is equipping him for disability ministry and for the lifelong journey of experiencing the goodness of God in all people. A graduate of Murray State University in Murray, KY, Garett worked for nearly 20 years in athletic media relations at both Murray State and the University of Louisville before God redirected his career path into disability ministry in 2019. A native of Dover, Tennessee, Garett is married to Becky and they have two children, Lily and Isaac. Connect with Garett Wall Connections Minister 502.253.8129 gwall@secc.org Shine Ministry Facebook Page Connect with Us: If you enjoy this podcast please share us with others and be sure to follow us so won't miss an episode. We'd love to hear from you so please leave us a comment or rating and connect with us on social media or on our website. Email us Website: hopeonthehardroad.org Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/hopeonthehardroad/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/hopeonthehardroad/ Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/2621447987943459/?source_id=105530184205752 Free Youtube Resource Library https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSAfvTkSy87X-fEqtVR2qvo7w9UQBuxz
Kyle Idleman, the senior pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky, joins the podcast to coach us up on the difference between being a fan or follower of Jesus. Kyle also coaches us up on the journey of parenthood and the wisdom of sharing our burdens. Let's dive in and learn from one of best communicators in the church today. •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• As always we thank our title sponsor OneCountry.com for making this podcast possible, and to Blue Delta Jeans and Konexial.com for their continued support of our podcast. COACH ME UP TEAM OneCountry.com. Blue Delta Jeans Konexial.com Follow us on Twitter: @CoachJimmyDykes @ChrisBurke02 •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• Hosted by Jimmy Dykes and Chris Burke Produced by Jared Mark Fincher All audio is subject to copyright 2023 Jimmy Dykes Inc. Contact us at coachmeuppodcast@gmail.com
Are you constantly caught up in the never-ending cycle of productivity, neglecting the vital connections with your loved ones? In this episode, author and pastor Kyle Idleman reveals the startling truth about why our way of parenting isn't working. Tune in to discover the importance of prioritizing connection over production. In this episode, you will be able to: Examine why many choose to place a greater emphasis on productivity over forging meaningful ties. Gain a deeper understanding of the tension between accomplishing tasks and establishing connections with your children. Explore the driving factors that lead to a focus on results over cultivating connections. Realize the necessity of consciously setting aside instance's to connect with your loved ones. Understand the importance of creating balance and the courage to seek assistance with your parenting. TODAY'S GUEST: Kyle Idleman, renowned for his thought-provoking insights and resilience, serves as the senior pastor at Southeast Christian Church, one of America's largest congregations. He is best known for his best-selling books, which have touched countless lives around the world. His passion has always centered around deepening understanding, encouraging inner growth, and fostering connections. He opens up about his personal journey, revealing how, despite being a driven productivity-focused professional, he rediscovered the importance of meaningful connections with family. His transformative experiences sparked compelling discussions that have inspired parents and adults alike. FROM THE PRODUCER Dr. Meg just launched "Simple Discipline that Works," the ultimate course on discipline you'll ever need! If you enjoyed today's episode, kindly consider sharing it with a friend, and be sure to subscribe to remain consistently updated with our newest episodes. OUR SPONSOR Skip trips to the grocery store and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, AND affordable – that's why it's America's #1 meal kit!. Click here and use code 50drmeg for 50% off plus free shipping! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Everybody wants to live the good life, but in the ups and downs of life, so many people miss that it starts with one most important thing. Kyle Idleman is a pastor at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky and a popular author. He shares what to do when you are worn-out, discouraged, and you think you don't have what it takes. Jesus wants you to never forget one thing. No matter what happens next, the most important thing is to stay connected to Jesus. What matters most, lasts the longest, and brings the greatest joy is staying connected to the God who never leaves you. Check out Kyle's book “When Your Way Isn't Working” Pick up Matt's book "Truth Plus Love" For more from Matt Brown, and to receive our free gift "5 Keys to Find Fulfillment in God" go to: Thinke.org
Guest Bios Show Transcript In 2020, Moriah Smothers thought her emotional and physical relationship with her pastor, Patrick Garcia, was an affair. She blamed herself and was ostracized by many in her church. Yet now, Moriah realizes she was the victim of adult clergy sexual abuse. And since Garcia has returned to preaching—and was recently featured in an article as a repentant and reformed pastor—Moriah is speaking out. In this exclusive podcast interview, Moriah and her husband, Jack, speak publicly for the first time since Patrick Garcia resigned from The Hills Church in Evansville, Indiana. At the time, Garcia confessed to engaging in an “inappropriate relationship, both physically and emotionally.” And he pledged to undergo a “season of restoration so that the root of my brokenness and dysfunction can be addressed.” Almost three years later, that season is apparently nearing a close. Garcia said recently that he's been able to determine what caused his crash. And, with the backing of mentoring pastor Bob Russell—pastor emeritus of one of the largest churches in the U.S.—Garcia is starting to minister again. This comes as a shock to Moriah, who says Garcia groomed and abused her, using his power as a pastor to keep her in a relationship she repeatedly tried to escape. And, in this podcast, Moriah and her husband, Jack, explain why they don't think Garcia should ever be allowed back into ministry. This podcast includes an interview with a pastor who served under Garcia at Crossroads Christian Church, where Garcia served until 2018, when he was fired. The Crossroads pastor says Garcia wasn't fired for mere “philosophical differences,” as previously announced, but for profound character issues. Also offering perspective is Jim Burgen, lead pastor of Flatirons Community Church in Colorado. Like Pastor Russell, Jim is a close friend and mentor for Garcia. Is Garcia a restored pastor, whose gifts shouldn't be withheld from the church? Or, is he a predator, who continues to deceive and manipulate, and shouldn't be allowed in ministry again? Multiple voices engage with these questions and provide understanding on adult clergy sexual abuse. Guests Dr. Moriah Smothers Dr. Moriah Smothers is an Associate Professor of Teacher Education and a former elementary special education teacher. She is also a survivor of adult clergy sexual abuse (ACSA). Dr. Jack Smothers is a Professor of Management and a secondary survivor. Their heart is to help other ACSA survivors find healing and community. They are passionate about educating church leaders to identify, prevent and respond to ACSA. They have two children and have been married for 15 years. You can connect with them at jackandmoriahsmothers@gmail.com. Show Transcript SPEAKERS JULIE ROYS, MORIAH SMOTHERS, JACK SMOTHERS, JIM BURGEN, PAUL LINGE JULIE ROYS 0:00 For a year, Moriah Smothers thought her emotional and physical relationship with her pastor Patrick Garcia was an affair. She blamed herself and was ostracized by many in her congregation. But Moriah says she now believes she was a victim of clergy sexual abuse. And now that Garcia is returning the ministry, she's speaking out in this exclusive podcast. Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys and joining me on this episode is Moriah Smothers and her husband Jack Smothers. Moriah has not spoken publicly since 2020 when Patrick Garcia resigned from the Hills Church in Evansville, Indiana. At that time, Garcia confessed to engaging in an “inappropriate relationship both physically and emotionally.” He added, no one is to blame for this repeated wicked behavior but me and he pledged to undergo a “season of restoration so that the root of my brokenness and dysfunction can be addressed.” Now almost three years later, that season is apparently nearing a close. In a Christian Post article last month, Garcia says he's been able to determine what caused his crash. And now with the help of mentoring Pastor Bob Russell, Pastor Emeritus of one of the largest churches in the country, Garcia is starting to minister again. He's also speaking out claiming the relationship he had with the other woman was an emotional affair, but the church forced him to say it was physical. He also claims the church didn't know how to handle his struggle with anxiety and depression, contributing to what happened. All this has come as a shock to Moriah, who says Garcia isn't telling the truth. She says Garcia groomed and abused her using his power as a pastor to keep her in a relationship she repeatedly tried to escape. She also says she's reached out to Russell and leaders at the Hills, trying to get them to acknowledge the abuse, but they've refused. On this podcast, you'll hear her story. You'll also hear from a pastor at Crossroads Christian Church, where Garcia served from 2016 to 2018. That's when he was fired for alleged philosophical differences. And you'll hear from a pastor who like Bob Russell, is a close friend and mentor for Garcia. You won't hear from Patrick Garcia. We reached out to him to hear his side of the story. He responded via email saying and I quote, “enough has been said about that part of my story. I'm in the season of accepting the Lord's forgiveness and moving on.” We'll get to this important podcast in a moment. But first, I'd like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. If you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities and strong financial aid. Plus you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Well, joining me now is Moriah Smothers, who is speaking publicly for the first time about what she claims was clergy sexual abuse by Patrick Garcia, former pastor of the Hills Church in Evansville, Indiana. Also joining her is her husband Jack Smothers, who has stood by Moriah throughout the turmoil and devastation of the past several years. So Jack, and Moriah, thank you so much for being willing to talk about what I know is just a really painful and difficult situation. MORIAH SMOTHERS 04:11 Thank you for having us Julie. JACK SMOTHERS 04:12 Thank you, Julie. JULIE ROYS 04:14 So as I mentioned in the open, Patrick Garcia resigned from the Hills Church in 2020, confessing to what the media called an affair. In the past three years you haven't said anything publicly about what happened. And now you are speaking publicly for the first time. So what led you to want to speak out now about this situation? MORIAH SMOTHERS 04:37 Julie, Jack and I have never wanted to, felt the need or the call to be public about any of this. Our heart was basically to disappear and heal up, figure out what happened, why it happened. And we have taken a few opportunities these past three years to for some educational reasons with some local church leaders, but really, we were very happy healing up in private on our own with some supporters as well. The reason that we're talking to you now is because of the Christian Post article that was recently released. We had no prior knowledge of that article, completely caught off guard by it. But after we both read it, we were deeply troubled by the fact that there was no mention of adult clergy sexual abuse in that write up. And even then I still didn't feel the need to say anything different than Patrick Garcia's story. But what really pushed us to reach out and say something and be public for the first time is I was so devastated and insulted for the survivor community, for other women that are your friends, and in a support group with now. I just felt the article was deeply disrespectful and tone death of everything happening in the evangelical church, between Ravi Zacharias and Hillsong, and the SBC, the Christian Post can do better and should do better. And so I felt like, I didn't want this opportunity. Jack didn't want this opportunity. But here it is. And we're really here to tell our story for survivors, and hopefully, for church leaders to know better and do better. JULIE ROYS 06:12 And so Leo Blair, who wrote that article. I know, Leo, he's a colleague, someone that I've talked to on numerous occasions, and has been helpful to me in stories. And he's done some excellent work. But in this case, sounds like he did not attempt to reach out to you, correct? MORIAH SMOTHERS 06:29 No, there was no attempt at all. Nobody involved in that story reached out to us or notified us at all. We were very surprised by it. JULIE ROYS 06:36 Okay. And I think he did reach out to the Hills' elders who did not respond to him. I guess they could have put him in touch with you. But that didn't happen. And I'm not sure that that was asked for even but a very regrettable situation. And so I'm glad that you're going to be able to tell your side of the story. Let's back up to when both of you met Patrick Garcia. As I understand, both of you were volunteers at Crossroads Christian Church in Evansville, Indiana. And that's where Patrick pastored from roughly 2016 to 2018. Would you describe your relationship with Patrick at the time? MORIAH SMOTHERS 07:16 Yeah, sure. Basically, Julie, there was no relationship. We started attending that church when Ken Idleman was pastoring it. We had a lot of respect for his preaching and teaching. And it would be classified technically, as a mega church; it was very large. We were serving and attending but the pastoral transition did happen while we were there, but there was no relationship of any sort. Our children are about the same age. So we might have walked past each other in a hallway but no kind of communication, no, no relationship of any sort, except he was the pastor. And that was it. JULIE ROYS 07:49 Okay, and I'm guessing you had impressions of him, though. He was your pastor. Jack, was there ever did you have any conversations with him at this point, or he was just the man up on stage/ JACK SMOTHERS 08:02 We had passing conversations. And I do remember, one time at Crossroads when Patrick was still a pastor there. I did say to Moriah, I have a bad feeling about him. I didn't have any evidence of anything, I just got a bad impression and asked her to keep her distance from it. That was the extent of our interactions. JULIE ROYS 08:23 So then, in 2020, Crossroads fired Patrick Garcia, and another Pastor Rick Kyle, over in this is what the statement said, at least initially was philosophical differences. That was the reason given. I've also spoken with Paul Linge who was and still is a pastor at Crossroads. And we'll get his take in a minute about what really was happening behind the scenes. But from your vantage point at the time, what did you think had happened and why Patrick Garcia was being fired by the church? 08:25 At that point in time, we were just congregation members very far removed from that inner circle with any sort of connection to Patrick or the elders. And I think that's an interesting question. It's something that churches should really consider deeply because for your average congregant, especially in a megachurch, that pastor, that teaching individual is going to be the person who your congregants feel more connected to. And we had a personal relationship, a friendship with another pastor by the name of Dave Bowersox, he was a friend. We love him and his family and he chose to resign from the church as a result of all that. And that, at the time, spoke volumes to us and we trusted him we trusted his friendship and I chose to side with them in moving to the Hills, which at that point in time, Patrick was not a part of, it had nothing to do with Patrick moving to the Hills. He didn't come on to staff at the Hills until later on. But at that point in time, it was really because of our friendship with Dave. JULIE ROYS 10:04 Was there a narrative though? That was because I know that this cause major turmoil. In fact, it spawned, I know, an article in Christian Post back then, because I went back and read a lot of these articles. I wasn't aware of it at the time. I wasn't covering this sort of news, or I think my nose was probably in other stories at the time. But it sounds like it caused a lot of turmoil at Crossroads, several pastors resigned when Patrick was fired, there was a petition circulating. This was a major deal. And I'm guessing there had to have been trying to figure out which side is telling the truth, am I right? MORIAH SMOTHERS 10:40 Yeah, there was definitely it was highly contentious. The narrative I remember hearing, believing, understanding was that the elders wanted to lead in a more traditional way. And that the pastors that were being fired and or resigned and left wanted to be more progressive. And so there was truly what we believe the statement about philosophical differences in leadership. And again, at the time, we also believe that maybe Crossroads was wanting to be a bit more of a country club feel, then really reaching out to the needy, the vulnerable. So that was the narrative that was being put out there for people that were asking questions. That's what i remember. JACK SMOTHERS 11:22 You don't realize how gullible you are until after the fact until hindsight is available. But there was evidence that we could have looked into and chose not to, because of those connections and those relationships that we had those trusted relationships. And so those just exerted a profound influence over us. And then we regret that. JULIE ROYS 11:43 As I mentioned, I talked to Paul Linge, who currently oversees the counseling ministry there at Crossroads, but he served as executive pastor under Patrick Garcia. And this is what he told me about why Patrick was fired. PAUL LINGE 11:58 There were some fundamental character fissures in the makeup of his heart, his mind, his belief system, and those would leak out on a fairly regular basis. And while I never saw him act, to my knowledge, inappropriately toward a female, okay, that's too much that's inappropriate, that's wrong. But he would laugh at it just crude things. And unless they like for nudity, not that I saw but like pictures of like a shadow of It's a little embarrassing to talk about, shadows of a man's penis, and, and this was like early on, and he would laugh about it. And I was like, yikes, okay, something is a little off here. And I would confront him on it. And sometimes he would receive it. But it was dismissive as well. Basically, he was unteachable, he was young, he was still in his late 20s. I saw the way that he would posture himself in elder meetings, he was unteachable, he would not listen to men who are leaders in their areas of business and industry and are men of God. He had his own his official group of Crossroads elders that he was technically under the authority of, but he had his own private board outside of that. It was composed of guys who would tell him what he wanted to hear. And some of these are the Bob Russell's, and others, some of whom have had what appears to be great success in ministry. But they didn't have the nuts and bolts of the character of Patrick Garcia. And so I think it could be said that he came with what looked like a good pedigree; graduate of Cincinnati Christian University, the son in law of Dave Stone, who at that time was the lead pastor at Southeast Christian Church. And so it looked like good pedigree, but I don't know that the proper due diligence was done in tossing him the keys, so to speak, of Crossroads Christian Church. It felt like the keys were tossed to a reckless teenager rather than a mature man of God, who had in mind things of God. JULIE ROYS 14:02 That's Crossroads Pastor Paul Linge, expressing a perspective that it sounds like neither, you know, you, Jack or Moriah had at the time. I'm just curious, as you listen to that, what kind of thoughts do you have and feelings about what you just heard? JACK SMOTHERS 14:20 Gosh, it's hard to go back in time and put yourself in that place. Of all the information that we were ignorant of. What we know now is Paul Linge is a man of God like that guy that is truly the real deal. He is a committed Christian and I don't have insider information because I was not a member of the elder board. But I am not surprised by anything. Any comment that he made in that clip. MORIAH SMOTHERS 14:46 There was a lot too. Jack and I kind of were looking at each other like we've heard this before. There was a lot of weight put on Patrick's pedigree, and the people that he had surrounding him in ministry support. And again we didn't know, but we thought that must mean something because it was consistently put out there. A phrase we heard a lot was ‘he comes from good stock'. I bet we've heard that hundreds of times. And knowing now that he was going a lot on reputation, and I think we've heard a lot for different organizations. But it seems like we're looking at charisma more than character is something I've heard in other churches. And yeah, nothing Paul said was surprising to us knowing what we know now. But, Julie, you're correct. We did not have any of that information, when this split was happening. And we were trying to make a decision; we didn't know. JACK SMOTHERS 15:38 And I think that's important for churches to keep in mind when they are, I think Crossroads did as good as they possibly could have with handling that situation. But as a congregant, I think we probably needed more information to truly assess their rationale, their justification for letting Patrick go, because we essentially put ourselves into a dangerous situation. JULIE ROYS 16:04 Well, it does sound like some of the elders did try to speak up and they were pretty strongly censored by people for doing that. So I know it can be a very difficult situation. And I've often said when I'm reporting, it's like saying something bad about somebody's grandmother. Like, it may be true, but people just don't want to hear it. They want to believe what they want to believe. And it can be a very difficult situation. But as you guys mentioned, Paul Linge mentioned one of the difficulties that Crossroads had was dealing with these outside advisors. And like you said, this stock that he came from, he had this close relationship with Bob Russell, retired pastor of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, one of the biggest churches in the country, very influential church. At the time, Patrick was also married to the daughter of Dave Stone, who was the pastor of Southeast Christian Church at the time, and Patrick, and Dave Stone's daughter has since divorced, but at the time again, he was Dave Stone's son-in-law. I reached out to Bob Russell for comments about the role that he's been playing in Patrick's life, as well as the role that he was playing at the time. He did not respond to me. However, one of Patrick's other advisors is Jim Burgen, and he's the lead pastor of Flat Irons Community Church in Colorado. And Jim was kind enough to grant me an interview. And here's what Jim said, regarding his understanding, at the time of why Crossroads fired Patrick. JIM BURGEN 17:31 My understanding is that he was trying to be very transparent, trying to be very real and authentic, admitting that he wasn't perfect and admitting he dealt with depression, things like that. And I do remember him telling me that the I don't want to be a gossip because I wasn't there, alright? So I know that Patrick was telling me that they didn't really want that image of their pastor. They wanted their pastor to be somebody who, because he had faith, and because he had the word of God, these things weren't really problems in their life anymore. They want him to stand on a pedestal and be an example, that you can overcome anything, which is a lot of pressure, but it also is, it's just not integrity. And so I read the same stuff you've read, but I've heard from Patrick, they didn't want that. They didn't want that. And then they parted ways over the I don't believe they parted ways over one thing, though, like, is just the overall, you have a different philosophy of ministry than we do. JULIE ROYS 18:28 So like then, or since you haven't really talked to any of the leaders at Crossroads? JIM BURGEN 18:34 No, not once. Or Hills. I've not talked to any of those leadership. JULIE ROYS 18:39 Again, that's pastor Jim Bergen who served as an advisor, I think he still is a mentor to Patrick. I like Jim, he was very gracious to grant me an interview. And we talked a long time. But I have to say when I heard him say that he hasn't talked to the leadership of Crossroads or the Hills, not once, that was concerning to me. Especially I know, he had Patrick come speak at his church in 2019. So this was after Patrick was fired from Crossroads. And it just doesn't seem from my vantage point, that there was respect for the local elders; enough respect to say, hey, what happened? But it seemed more like Patrick was, he's our prodigy. He's our guy. And so if he says this, I'm going with it. And if there's one thing in this story that even we've seen so far, nobody reached out to you to get your side of the story. Nobody reached out to these elders between these advisors to get their side of the story. I'm guessing you're feeling some similar things there. But do you have anything to add that you thought when you heard this from Jim? JACK SMOTHERS 19:50 I don't know if Jim is willfully and intentionally ignorant, or if Jim is confused, perhaps, or maybe I'm wrong, right? But in my opinion, that's the only thing that I can say. His statement about Patrick trying to be very transparent and real and authentic. What Patrick was actually doing is trying to manipulate other people into getting what he wanted. So my reaction to pastor Bergen is, I guess I should have gracious assumptions and say he did not apparently know the real Patrick Garcia. MORIAH SMOTHERS 20:28 My concern with his statement too Julie is, I think, a lot of times when these situations occur, the person where the blame should fall is excellent at isolating individuals so they can control the narrative. And I think that when that happens, it's really easy to spin the story that is in your favor. And so I think it was a real leadership failure to not have broken out of that vacuum, and have talked to other stakeholders like the Hills and Crossroads and other people involved in that. JACK SMOTHERS 21:03 Do you feel that the language he was using, the language that Patrick would use about being so real and authentic was really a way to justify his sin and normalize his behavior? MORIAH SMOTHERS 21:17 Yeah, I think the closest thing I've ever read that accounts for that is that Chuck DeGroat. He wrote When Narcissism Comes to Church. I came across the term I think he's the one who coined it, it could have been someone else, but called fauxnerability. That term exactly represented the culture of the Hills, and the culture that I believe Patrick wanted to create; that I'm going to be very open, vulnerable, transparent, but it's more transactional. And then I'm not really going to live that privately, which was a lot of the interaction he and I had together was horrible. JULIE ROYS 21:52 So within months of Patrick leaving Crossroads, he joined this new church that two former pastors at Crossroads started Dave Bowersox and Darrell Marin. Both of you decided to become part of this new church. What motivated you to do that? JACK SMOTHERS 22:11 Really was our relationship with Dave, we barely knew Darrell. But we were in a small group of Dave and his wife, Sandy, and really trusted them and loved their family a lot. And we also had kids about their kids age and Dave and I had a meeting at the university where Moriah and I are employed. And he mentioned, they were creating an elder board and said, I would be a great fit for that. That never really came to fruition while we were there. They created an advisory team and invited Moriah to be on that. I wasn't invited. We were involved with a discipleship ministry while we were at the Hills. But anyway, our relationship with Dave is what drew us there. JULIE ROYS 22:54 The not having an elder board, and having an advisory board with I'm guessing really had no teeth or accountability. Am I right? MORIAH SMOTHERS 23:02 That's exactly right. And so this advisory board they created had men and women that were all in with the church. Which I thought at the time, like what a wonderful demonstration like representation of the church. It was made very clear to the board multiple times that there was no accountability that pastors had to us. And we were never to be a decision making body. At the time I was there, it was very much, so we're gonna read you our stats, tell you the good things we're doing and you brag on us. And so it was a Yes-man and woman situation, let's cheer and say, rah. But no, there was no authority with that position. JULIE ROYS 23:41 And I will just say right now, and I do get asked this all the time. But people say like, how can you evaluate a church? And it's step one, look at the elder board. Are they truly independent or are they beholden to the pastor in some way? Are they staff members of the church? In other words, is the pastor their boss, so of course they're not going to buck him? Are they family members? This is another one that nepotism that runs in these. All of these things need to be looked at but what can they really do look at the bylaws. Do you have bylaws? If you do have bylaws, how is a pastor senior pastor going to be removed? Is that spelled out in your bylaws? Finances – do you know how much your senior pastor makes? And I don't care if you're at a small church or a large church, whatever. To me the fact that religious nonprofits and churches don't have to reveal what their top wage earners make, but secular nonprofits do, to me is appalling. Why should the church be less accountable to the people that give it money than the world right? than the secular nonprofits? It's these kinds of red flags that before I got into doing what I do today, I wouldn't have thought of either so I don't fault people for it. But I think we're in a season or a time in the church right now that's really somewhat of a crisis, with scandal after scandal coming out. And if people, if the church individuals, congregants, if we don't wise up, we're never going to see a change, because it's not going to come from the top, it's going to come from the bottom up. So, Moriah, it's my understanding that about a year later, so it was about October 2018, that you began on the advisory board at the Hills church. But then Patrick started communicating with you on an individual basis. And this is what you would say, is the early stages of what you believe is grooming you. Would you describe why you believe that this was a grooming situation and the beginning of abuse? MORIAH SMOTHERS 25:48 Before I get into that, Julia, and I will, is that one of the things that was revealing in the Christian Post article is that Patrick actually told on himself and said that he'd had a crush on me for three years. We had no interaction, we didn't know each other and knowing what I know now, I absolutely believe that I was targeted well in advance. I think he had been taking notes on me the times we had interacted. Jack and I lead a Bible study group with the pastors for a new curriculum, there were some things from that were a little unusual, but I just didn't think much of. So that communication initially, I would have considered very innocuous. It was really about the ministry Jack and I were helping run and so a lot of those emails early on, like I would have to discuss with Jack and things like that. But eventually, they turned into more texting, still some emails, but more texting. And I didn't loop Jack in on those, which was a huge error on my part. But it really a lot of it was just like joking and silly things that if someone had picked up my phone and read, they would have thought, that's odd, her husband sat on a bit, it wouldn't have been anything. So it wouldn't have been an obvious red flag. And so I let a lot of that go, even though I'm sure I had a gut check at the time, but it's my pastor, like, I've always had healthy, safe relationships with my pastor. So I didn't think anything about it. it fairly quickly turned into joking though. His demeanor is very polling. He described it like a very silly kind of teenager, he just joking. The first thing that really caught my attention, though, was like, that doesn't seem quite normal is he sent a gift to my work. And so he put a different name on it a pseudonym. And it was an inside joke about a logo from Flat Irons. I made the joke our son was into Pokémon, and I asked him, I said, Well, Patrick, you're wearing a Pokémon shirt. Matt, our son would love bat, like I didn't know you were a fan. And so he sent this to my office. And then that was the first time it caught my attention, texting, communication. And honestly, a lot of times it was about church. And so it was intermixed between what was happening at church and fake life, and then personal and personal questions and things like that. I didn't have any of this language then. But all of this was really heavily infused with love bombing, which I know now I didn't know at the time that just this excessive praise, this endearment that, honestly, it really ingratiates someone with you, you feel so valued and seen. But the intention there is for manipulative purposes. And so I really believed a lot of that. The more we communicated, the more he sought out my opinion on church issues. And I did I just felt flattered that he thought my perspective was valuable in that context, because I've never, that's never happened before within that kind of inner circle church group. Also, the thing that very quickly happened is he started depending on me for things. He would just often say, like how overwhelming his work is, and he's so far behind, and he's shepherding and writing sermons and doing all these things, and I'm a former Special Ed teacher, like teachers are helpers by nature. It's what we do. It's what we're good at. And so I thought, like, oh, my gosh, I have the skill set, I can help you out. Do you need me to proofread something? Pretty quickly, he said, You just take over doing all my emails for work. And I thought, well, I can respond to some of them, I guess, because it's what my pastor needed. And so that's really where it started. It clearly escalated into much worse, but I would say those are some of the initial grooming stages is the joking silly conversations, personal questions, and then it started creating that need of I need you to help me be successful in ministry. The other piece that I would feel maybe goes between if we're looking at severity or intensity of grooming, this one kind of straddles the line is he very quickly started sharing personal information with me about himself and about his colleagues and about the church. He told me some things about Crossroads. I mean, just things that I had no business knowing as a congregant, confidential information that he never should have shared with me about himself and others. And so at the time, I was giving advice and input, but I felt flattered that he wanted to share that with me as well. JULIE ROYS 30:14 And I'm sure as you know, now, your story is not an isolated incident. This is a pattern that plays out over and over again. And at least from sitting in my seat, the one characteristic that I see that makes people vulnerable is it's the ones that are really sincere, and helper type people. And it's so awful because it's actually such a virtuous thing that the victim possesses as a character quality that predators seem to be able to just sniff out and just be able to exploit. And I know that's how you feel, and what you feel Patrick did to you. When did you first realize, Oh, my goodness, this is a dangerous relationship? MORIAH SMOTHERS 30:59 Yeah, it was fairly early on, really. I don't know that I would have said dangerous, but I recognize that I was looking forward to him communicating with me. And so it was even small, but I thought, Man, that's not healthy. And I think a common belief is that anyone who is targeted , they're struggling in their marriage. Jack and I have a wonderful marriage. We did before I was groomed we were doing well during and praise the Lord, we have a wonderful marriage now. And so I'd like to debunk that, that it's only broken people or broken marriages that are targeted, because that's not true. But it was pretty early on, I realized I'm looking forward to him texting, and that was messed up. And this is the other spot that man, if I could do anything and go back, this is the spot I would go back and redo this is I thought I could handle it. Because I really again believed that my pastor would honor his fiduciary duty of putting me and my family's best interest above his own. And so I said, Hey, I need to talk to you about something, let's FaceTime. And so we hopped on a FaceTime. And I tell him, I said, This is so humiliating, I'm humiliated, and I know you're going to be embarrassed. But I'm looking forward to you contacting me, I think I'm attracted to you. And so we need to cut communication. And he reported this in the Christian Post very differently than what had happened. I think he said, I hooked him. But what really happened is that I asked him, I said, this is again, I didn't understand, I thought it was my fault. I said, we need to stop all communication totally like this has to be done and over. And he said your family is too important to our church, to the ministry. I love your family, we need to be in contact still. So do you trust me to pray about it? Absolutely. I'll trust my pastor at that time to pray about it for me. And I said, Sure, I understand that. I didn't want to lose our community. And that I trusted him to pray about it. And Julie the part I would go back and do is that was my moment in time to tell Jack, but I did not tell Jack about what was going on. Because Jack is a man of character and integrity, we would have been out of that church so fast. I didn't want to lose our people in our community group. And what I didn't realize is Patrick came back and I basically just opened the doors for full on grooming and abuse. And he said, Moriah, you know, I never do this. I never say this when I preach from the stage. But God has told me that if we stay above reproach, then he wants us to be together. And it was a strong implication of like, for ministry purposes. And I was floored by that. But Jack and I are happily married and we're doing great. I had no desire to be out of my marriage ever. And so I was really confused by that. But he was very convincing that this was a word from the Lord. So things accelerated from there in a really tragic way. JULIE ROYS 34:03 And this is spiritual abuse 101. It doesn't get much more blatant than God told me. And this should be a red flag for anyone. But again, we're not trained in how to identify these red flags. But when somebody says God told me, I mean, how do you argue with that, right? I mean, it's just really manipulative language that somebody would use. MORIAH SMOTHERS 34:28 He's my pastor, I trusted pastors, healthy relationships. My dad was a pastor, like, I had no reason to think there would be any kind of predatory behavior. Like none at the time. I clearly know better now, but. JULIE ROYS 34:43 So about this time is when the relationship progressed to you and Patrick meeting in public parking lots, which is kind of a next step. Would you describe the frequency of these meetings and the nature of them? MORIAH SMOTHERS 35:02 So I remember the first one he asked to me. So we could figure out this is a common phrase of how to manage the tension of being in communication, but it not being romantic. That was the first time we met. I vividly remember how sweaty my hands were. I knew I shouldn't be in this situation. But I also, truthfully, I still trusted him that, okay, if I meet with him, then we can figure out a way for this to be over. That didn't happen. And so we did on and off continue to meet. I would say it was, I honestly don't remember a number. I would say maybe once every couple weeks or so. It was almost always surrounding the situation of I tried to end it, he would say, let me figure this out, figure out a plan so you don't have to leave the church. And then let's meet as our last time. And so when we would meet honestly, like, we talk about church, we would talk about our personal lives. It was a lot about how he was struggling just being a pastor managing everything difficult relationships. I felt like I was his counselor most of the time, it was a lot of that. Sadly, it did progress. The abuse never became fully sexual, but there was hand holding and hugging things of that nature that happened. Yeah. JULIE ROYS 36:23 And he said, in the Christian Post article that at one point, you tried to kiss him, but he put the brakes on. True? Not true? MORIAH SMOTHERS 36:32 I don't remember that happening. There was embracing that happened. So I could see him thinking that's where it was going. JULIE ROYS 36:40 So you wrote in your timeline that you sent me that during this period, you felt like, quote, an addict living two lives. Would you explain that? MORIAH SMOTHERS 36:49 So the timeline I sent you I wrote in 2020, when things were very fresh. I had no language surrounding abuse, trauma, ACSA. And so that feeling was still is still correct of how I felt. What I know now, though, is what that is was trauma- bonding. That happens in a cycle of abuse of feeling like very affirmed, valued the love bombing, and then trying to end it. And it's like this very toxic cycle. And so that's what it was, is I, frankly, I hated who I was becoming. I love being a wife and a mom, and I love my job. So there were so many beautiful parts of my life. I loved the church I was serving, we were super engaged. So I felt like there were all these beautiful parts of my life. And then there was this really toxic, ugly thing that I didn't know how to get out of. Even as a grown woman educated, I didn't know how to get out of this. And so that's where I just felt so painfully torn. Because at this point, I knew things were bad. Like I knew they were very bad, because we were communicating every single day, multiple times a day, even when I would end the relationship, he would still use phrases from the stage to communicate with me that were like inside praises. He'd post on social media photos, but he put little photos like emojis in the corner that were messages to me, and the communication was all the time. So I now know it was trauma bonding, but the truth is, at the time, I saw no way out without imploding our life. And so I stayed in it, because I didn't know how not to. JULIE ROYS 38:30 And it's interesting. And I hear this all the time, the minimizing of the devastation that a relationship that didn't go there was no sexual intercourse, but had obviously a sexual component to it had this kind of grooming involved in this kind of trauma-bonding, love-bonding, I mean, all of these things, the devastation is massive, isn't it? MORIAH SMOTHERS 39:00 Yeah. And I think what's really hard to account for and if I'm just being really honest, I don't expect for anyone who hasn't experienced this or walked with someone to understand this. But physically, what happened was minimal compared to the emotional and the spiritual wreckage of feeling like your pastor should be doing the right thing, and he's not. I would say I ended this relationship. I use that term very loosely, it was abuse, but I ended it two or three times every single month. It was ongoing. That was most of our conversations with me trying to figure out how to get out of this. And there was a lot of communication in between as well but yeah, I think what's not accounted for when these situations come out, is just the emotional spiritual psychological damage that's left in its wake and it's horrific. JULIE ROYS 39:57 And Jack during this whole time, are you seeing red flags or things that are making you go, what's going on? Or was this pretty much hidden from your sight? JACK SMOTHERS 40:06 I had no evidence if that's what you mean. But what I did see was Moriah's natural demeanor is very light hearted, very life giving just a joy to be around. And that was stolen. She became darker she became her humor became vulgar, her language in terms of profanity that started to occur. And so I remember asking her one time, like, hey, something is changing about you, and I don't know what it is. Is it something that's wrong with our relationship? Or what can I do to get us back on track? But something is off, and I don't know what it is. And she couldn't answer because she was in a cycle of abuse at the time. MORIAH SMOTHERS 40:51 And Julie, so horribly as well that I would sometimes bring this home to Jack. Like I was so torn up about what was happening privately that I would put that on our marriage and say, but if you treated me like this, when it had nothing to do with Jack. Towards the end, I even started saying, let's move, let's apply for jobs, let's go somewhere else, because I thought that's my only way out of this. And so was pushing so hard to escape, but I made life pretty hard for Jack for a while, because I was not me anymore. JULIE ROYS 41:24 Moriah, eventually, your relationship with Patrick included sexting. In fact, that was the title of the Christian Post article, basically, How Sexting Brought This Pastor Down. Would you describe the nature, the frequency, who initiated the sexting? How did that happen? MORIAH SMOTHERS 41:46 But that also had a grooming process to it. I've never been a selfie person, I think I'm just old enough that I missed that kind of way. Patrick would send dozens of photos a day. And so I think there was a grooming process with getting me to that place. But the sexting did occur, it is incredibly painful to talk about still. I don't remember the frequency, it wasn't truthfully, many times what I would consider overt sexting. But the ongoing dialogue for us was highly flirtatious and inappropriate. What I would say was over happened, I don't know probably less than 10 times, and it was always followed by like, guilt, shame, that can't happen again. And then we were back there. JULIE ROYS 42:33 All of this did remain secret until May of 2020. And that's when this police report came to the attention of pastors at the Hills church. How was there a police report that made this apparent to them? MORIAH SMOTHERS 42:47 I honestly I still don't have all the information. Because when everything did eventually come out, we were very much so left in the dark. So I don't fully understand all the details to this. But my knowledge, what I do know is that there was a time we were meeting in a public parking lot. We'd met there several times, the people working in that location had noticed it. And so after so many times of meeting there they called the police to check because they thought it was odd that two cars were parked there. I think we were there after hours even. And so a policeman came out just said, Hey, what's going on? Nothing was going on. And so, it wasn't any kind of like, charges or anything. It was just documentation that we had been there. And so I don't know the process of how that actually got to the Hills, but it did. Once that happened, I didn't know anything about that. I think we were on vacation as a family. And what I've been told not being involved in that is that Dave and Daryl, the other pastors, met with Patrick, confronted him with what was in the police report, which wasn't much information, just that we'd met there several times, and it was documented. Patrick spun a story that there was nothing going on, that he and I had only met there once. And Jack and I haven't seen this report. So we're not really sure what's in it. That he said we had only met there once, and that we were handing off a binder or a book or something. And so he had been there before, but I hadn't. And so very shortly after that, Patrick was also instructed not to contact me because they wanted to verify his story. Patrick got in contact with me immediately said this is exactly what happened. I remember he said, I took a bullet for us. And so you're gonna get called into a meeting with Dave and an elder, and this is what you need to say to backup my story. And so I knew what was going on. We got home from our vacation. Dave called and asked me to a meeting, and I asked if Jack could go with me, and he said no, he cannot. And so I think again, I was still I was not in a good place mentally and emotionally. I think I was hoping that if Jack was there, it would come out and maybe I could be free from this, but Jack wasn't allowed there. And so I remember sitting in the parking lot of where I was going to meet the pastor and the elder. And Patrick called me and he said, these are the exact lies I told. If you want to save your family, my family, the church, and also they were fundraising for a new building at the time. And that money he indicated to me was associated with him, because he had raised those funds. He said, If you want to save all these things, then you need to backup my story. And I consented, or I agreed to backup his story. And so I think in the Christian Post article, it read very much so like I eagerly and enthusiastically agreed to lie. But I felt very much if I'm gonna lose my family and my church, then I'll lie. And so I did lie. I sat down with the pastor and the elder. They very much so wanted to hear the version of the situation, I told them, so I didn't have to lie much, because they wanted to believe it. And so I did lie in that situation. JULIE ROYS 46:03 And did you volunteer to step down from the advisory board at this time? MORIAH SMOTHERS 46:08 I did. Yeah, that was the primary way Patrick had access to me just individually without Jack around. Otherwise, Jack and I did ministry together, we were pretty much always together. So I said, I'm happy to step down from that. I guess that's appropriate. And they didn't want to raise any red flags about why I was stepping down. So they told me no, please don't do that. JULIE ROYS 46:28 Wow. And you secretly were trying to get out. MORIAH SMOTHERS 46:33 I was trying to get out in a lot of ways. But except being fully truthful with Jack, which would have got me out. JULIE ROYS 46:42 So Jack, what was your response when you heard the rendition of the story that Moriah told you? JACK SMOTHERS 46:50 The story that I received was, she made a silly mistake and met Patrick in a parking lot to receive a binder about church. Sounds pretty innocent when you are in a loving relationship with someone who has, over a long period of time, established a firm foundation of trust, you're raised in a family where people treat you in a trustworthy way. It builds a lot of gullibility in a way and so I didn't really second guess it. I just said, Oh, man, that was silly. Let's just learn from it and move on. And in retrospect, that was maybe not the most loving thing to do. The most loving thing to do would have been to ask more questions, if I felt uneasy about it. Yeah. JULIE ROYS 47:33 Yeah. It's tough, though. You don't want to be the jealous husband, who doesn't believe. It's a very difficult situation to be in. At this point, Moriah, you asked Patrick to basically get some outside help, right? Like, I mean, you knew he had this outside Advisory Council board, whatever you want to call it, mentors that he looked up to. How did he respond when you asked him to get this help? MORIAH SMOTHERS 48:02 Yeah. So all the previous times I'd ended it, it was really just between the two of us and I just want it to be done. But this time, I said, clearly, I felt like this was, again, I was spiritually very twisted. But I feel like this is God telling us like this has to be done. This was our chance to end it. And he didn't feel like he could end it, that he needed me. And so I asked him to just, I begged him, I'd said, like, please just talk to somebody tell somebody what is going on. Because this entire time, I had some real questions like even like I said, this an affair, isn't it? Nice to no, because it's not physical like that it's not. And I asked him, I said, please just talk to somebody get their input. And so he told me, he did talk to a couple people. One of them was a former colleague and friend that was in his previous church in Texas. And then also he communicated that he talked to Jim Burgen about it. I didn't know either of these people at all. But he told me that he was advised by both of them to not share any of this information with people at the Hills, the other pastors, they just didn't need to know the details, and it would cause a difficult situation. And so I thought he had been advised by wise counselors, which is what I asked him to do. JULIE ROYS 49:19 And of course, you have no way of knowing whether that actually happened or not. But I did reach out to Jim Burgen, and asked him specifically about this, about whether or not he ever encouraged Patrick not to confess the details of his relationship with you to the church. And this is what Jim Burger said. JIM BURGEN 49:37 I knew they were having struggles. I didn't know he was meeting in cars with women. Not at all. And if I had known that, I would have absolutely done the opposite of what you're hearing; cover it up, don't disclose. It would have been the opposite of that is you've got to cut this relationship. You need to go to Savannah, you need to go to your leaders. I was fresh off the heels of sabbatical. I was on a sabbatical for six months at the end of 2019, dealing just with a lot of exhaustion. So at that point, I would have been really raw and open because I was in such a tremendous, intimate relationship with my elders. They knew the inside out of my heart. I would have pointed in that direction too. Whether he had that or not, I don't know. But that's what my advice would have been. I never, never ever in a million years would say, cover this up, keep it a secret, don't give details because basically what I've been counseling this keep going just don't get caught, which would be absolutely the opposite of what I would ever have counseled anybody. JULIE ROYS 50:36 Again, Jim Burgen weighing in on his perspective of what happened. It didn't take a long time after this whole police report surfaced for the truth to come out. So apparently, the church sends Patrick off on, I'm sorry, this study break. I've seen so many study breaks. For pastors, they get caught with things like this, you wish they would just be upfront with what's going on. But instead, it's covered up from the church. And I guess he needs to do more study about something. But during that study break what was happening between the two of you? MORIAH SMOTHERS 51:15 Yeah, so during the study break, keep in mind, I was still on the advisory board, because they hadn't taken me off. This was also not disclosed to the advisory board at all about what was really going on, their concerns. We were still in communication. I think there were attempts to slow the communication down, that it was frequent. There was also up until this point, things had been bad. But again, most of our communication was just like silly, everyday things, light hearted. Things got dark after this and really heavy in a way that it hadn't been. There was a lot of like power reversals. And I remember Patrick being very clear that like, I have control of this situation. And he would want me to like verbalize consent at that. There was a situation where some pastor I have no clue who it was, it was just in the news that he had probably an affair, which is the language they use, which would have been abuse. And I said something to Patrick about it. And I said, “Hey, I read this story. Did you read that?” He had. And I said, “Doesn't that sound like what's happening here?” And he like, forced me to verbally agree that's not what's happening here. This is consensual, and so it just got really heavy. He also started pushing to blame. He was like, let's reassess when we're gonna be together. And I mean, I remember the clearest time again, only in hindsight of being gaslit was, I was just feeling very convicted. And I said something like Patrick, I'm not leaving Jack, I have no desire to end my marriage. I'm not doing that. And he somehow flipped it around, and I ended up apologizing to him, that I would even think he might ask me to do that. And so just really, really sick, twisted. But the communication was still often. JULIE ROYS 54:07 And how old was he at this point? MORIAH SMOTHERS 54:09 So if this was in 2020, he was probably 32 ish? JULIE ROYS 54:13 Thiry-two. It's a lot of responsibility for someone extremely young, really. And he's in his late 20s and pastoring a church of 7000 previous to this. It's just a little bit stunning that someone so young would be given that kind of responsibility. In September 2020, then I'm guessing he comes back from his summer break. And you met in person a few times. Would you describe what happened in those meetings? MORIAH SMOTHERS 54:45 Yeah, so all of those were to wrap things up to end things like again, there was this kind of mounting pressure. It just has to be that and frankly, I was starting to be a mess. Like I had been able to keep my life together pretty much. He would actually say, I know this is hard for you. But just let me shoulder the pressure of keeping this together. I was not doing well at that point in time. And so we met in a parking lot. And again, naively thought, like this is the last time, but that was, every time I was nervous and felt like oh my gosh, would have foreseen and it was, it was scary. That was the first time that he scared me, at the way he was behaving, and I actually had the thought, like, I hope I'm able to get out of this car. And it was just, it felt like things were moving really fast. And so again, I was hopeful that maybe that was the last time. But communication just continued, even though there's so many last times that communication continued still. JULIE ROYS 55:46 So the following month, October 2020, Patrick's wife, Savannah, she discovered some of the messages between the two of you the sexting, I'm guessing she saw? MORIAH SMOTHERS 55:57 Yeah. I don't know exactly what was seen. You read those? Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of it was just silliness. But then there were things that absolutely indicated that there was sexting and it was highly inappropriate. JULIE ROYS 56:10 You found out about this from Patrick, right, when Savannah found out what was his demeanor and reaction? MORIAH SMOTHERS 56:19 Well, I knew something was a little wrong. We had been communicating. And Julie, I don't think I mentioned this, but early on through the grooming, it was mainly text, emails, and then it switched through social media platforms. And so he was always very thorough, reminding me like, hey, delete our messages, delete our conversations. And we were communicating with an app Words with Friends. We were playing a game on there, and there's a chat feature. And so we'd been communicating, I gotten distracted with something, and had just left our conversation because something happened quickly. And when I came back, I messaged him again, and there was never a response. And so I knew something seemed different because he always responded. But he didn't that time. And so it was all through the evening. I never got a response. I knew something was going on. I think that was I shared maybe a little bit with you at that time. I've minimized I heavily minimized what was going on to Jack. But I did disclose a little bit to him. And it was sometime in the middle of the night, I got an email from a random email address. But the email address and how it was worded was like a lot of inside jokes between us. And the phrasing was really strange. It didn't the email it was from Patrick. We know now he had all this like technology taken. So I don't know how he did this. But he basically said that Savannah found messages. And then he included a bulleted list to say like, these are the lies we've told remember them and back them up about what it was. But the email sounded like silly, like almost joking. It was not like, devastated. It wasn't angry. It was a very strange message. When I knew that this had been discovered, I freaked out. And so I deleted the email, I never responded and I like permanently deleted it from my Gmail. And the next day, he sent another one from the same email and it was just, sorry, with a crying emoji and I deleted that one as well. I did end up telling Jack eventually that he had sent that. So I did know something was coming. But I didn't know the fallout that was about to happen. JULIE ROYS 58:30 Jack, how did you find out? JACK SMOTHERS 58:32 Moriah disclosed a little bit of what was going on. But really it was Dave Bowersox who called and shared the communication, the sexting conversations that had occurred, and in a PDF document. And so I read through those, and yeah, that's how I found out. Of course I was devastated at the time. But my really, I think God was very gracious over me at that point in time because all I could think about was our kids. Sorry. Two wonderful and amazing children that they deserve a safe home. They deserve to feel protected. And this was an attack on our family. We have a great example in scripture of Christ protects his bride, how Christ dies to himself to protect his family. So that's where we at. Sometimes protecting your family looks like getting on your knees and praying. Sometimes protecting your family looks like asking a lot of questions. listening intently. I was thankful that in our job, so in higher education, we are required to go through training. I believe it's every year, we're required to complete these modules just on what is Title IX, sexual harassment, all these things. There's one thing that stuck out to me. And it was where there's a power imbalance, there's no such thing as consent. And so I thought, okay, professors, student, doctor, patient, Pastor, congregant. These are all similar relationships where there's a direct power imbalance, there could not have been consent, and I'm smashing all this together. This was not all at one time, this was weeks or maybe months of reflecting and trying to absorb the information that we have. It wasn't until probably a year after it all came out that we really understood ACSA and that entire framework. MORIAH SMOTHERS 1:00:48 But Jack was the first person to raise this piece of information, like how is there consent there as your pastor? And some of the contextual things that I'd never recommend this for anybody, but we were quarantined at the time, with COVID. So we couldn't be with anybody. And so we can laugh about it now a little bit, but it was at the time, just heartbreaking. I was so broken and devastated and confused. It looked like I was coming out of a cult. Like there's this like trauma fog that descends. I didn't know what to do. I followed Jack everywhere in our house. I couldn't be away from him. And so he's grieving and mourning, and I'm following him around and we're quarantined and have little children that were trying to – it was a mess. So everything we did was over Zoom about all the disclosures. JULIE ROYS 1:01:41 So how did you feel the church responded to you, Moriah? MORIAH SMOTHERS 1:01:45 I don't want to over exaggerate this. And I can share details. The abuse from my pastor was horrible. The way the church responded was ten times more traumatizing than the abuse. JULIE ROYS 1:02:04 That concludes part one of my interview with Moriah and Jack Smothers, and we're ending on a bit of a cliffhanger. But this is something that I've heard over and over again from victims. The original abuse is horrific, for sure. But it's easier to understand that the church can have one bad apple than to realize that it's not just one bad apple. There's a whole system protecting and managing that one bad apple, often at the expense of the victim. And you'll hear that part of Moriah and Jack's story in part two, and it's such an important story. So I hope you'll be watching for that to release in just a few days. But thank you so much for listening to The Roys Report. And if you've appreciated this podcast and our investigative work, would you please consider giving a gift to support us? As I've said before, we don't have big corporate sponsors or large donors. We have you, the survivors, advocates, allies and church leaders who care about ridding the church of predators and making it a safer place. Also, this month if you give a gift of $30 or more, we'll send you Christy Boulware's book, Nervous Breakthrough; Finding Freedom From Fear and Anxiety in a World That Feeds It. This is such a great resource for anyone struggling with anxiety and panic attacks, or really any mental health issue. So to get the book and support the Roys report, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you are blessed and encouraged. Read more
© 2020-2025 Ivy Podcast Discovery LLC
