Podcast appearances and mentions of kat chow

"White people are comfortable anywhere," says restaurateur Andy Shallal. "In order for a Black person to walk into a space, there need to be signals that say, 'You're welcome.'" In this week's show we decode those signals, which include the decor and music, the staff and other customers, and more. These codes tell you what kind of place a restaurant is, and whether it's for you. So what happens when a restaurant uses these signals to bring certain people in, and keep others out? This week we visit three very different restaurants in Washington D.C. to talk with the owners and customers about the different signals these places send, and what those codes can tell us about larger questions of race and culture. This episode is co-hosted by writer and reporter Kat Chow, formerly of the NPR podcast and blog Code Switch.This episode originally aired on October 9, 2016, and was repeated on May 20, 2020. It was produced by Dan Pashman and Anne Saini. Edited by Rebecca Carroll, Lee Hill, and Arwa Gunja. The Sporkful team now includes Dan Pashman, Emma Morgenstern, Andres O'Hara, Nora Ritchie, and Jared O'Connell. This update was produced by Gianna Palmer. Publishing by Shantel Holder and transcription by Emily Nguyen.Every other Friday, we reach into our deep freezer and reheat an episode to serve up to you. We're calling these our Reheats. If you have a show you want reheated, send us an email or voice memo at hello@sporkful.com, and include your name, your location, which episode, and why.Transcript available at www.sporkful.com.Right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. Get all your favorite podcasts, more than 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, and live sports coverage with the SiriusXM app.

This week, Dana and Stephen are once again joined by Kat Chow, author of the memoir Seeing Ghosts. The panel begins by jumping into the ring with Cassandro, the oddly conflict-adverse biopic about the lucha libre superstar and exótico gay icon, Saúl Armendáriz, who is played terrifically by Gael García Bernal in a provocative, tour-de-force performance. Then, the trio wades into comedian–and future Daily Show host hopeful–Hasan Minhaj's thorny web of lies with Slate staff writer, Nitish Pahwa, who detailed the devastating impact of Minhaj's many falsehoods in his essay, “Hasan Minhaj Meant Something to Brown Americans. Was It All an Act?” Finally, the three react to “The 40 Greatest Stand-Alone TV Episodes of All Time,” written by the Slate Staff, a massive labor of love and fun thought experiment that spans The Sopranos, Atlanta, The Larry Sanders Show, Black Mirror, and High Maintenance.  In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, the panel discusses the impact the last few years have had on their lives, inspired by Katy Schneider's essay for The Cut, “The Pandemic Skip.” Email us at culturefest@slate.com.  Endorsements: Dana: Dana sent this to everyone she knows–family, friends, etc. It's a new interview with Martin Scorsese, written by Zach Baron for GQ entitled “Martin Scorsese: ‘I Have To Find Out Who The Hell I Am.'” In addition to films and moviemaking (his latest, Killers of the Flower Moon, is set to be released in October), the legendary director, now 80, also speaks candidly about life, its inevitable end, and his own mortality. It's a dream of an interview and absolutely sublime.  Kat: Small Things Like These, a beautifully written historical fiction novel by Claire Keegan about the horrific conditions women and children endured at Magdalene Laundries in Ireland.  Stephen: “Quantum poetics,” an essay in Aeon written by William Egginton, a professor of humanities at James Hopkins University. In it, Egginton describes the ways Argentine short story author, Jorge Luis Borges, and German theoretical physicist Werner Heisenberg “converged on the notion that language both enables and interferes with our grasp of reality.”  Outro music: “Forbidden Love” by OTE Podcast production by Cameron Drews. Production assistance by Kat Hong.  If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows. You'll also be supporting the work we do here on the Culture Gabfest. Sign up now at Slate.com/cultureplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Dana and Stephen are once again joined by Kat Chow, author of the memoir Seeing Ghosts. The panel begins by jumping into the ring with Cassandro, the oddly conflict-adverse biopic about the lucha libre superstar and exótico gay icon, Saúl Armendáriz, who is played terrifically by Gael García Bernal in a provocative, tour-de-force performance. Then, the trio wades into comedian–and future Daily Show host hopeful–Hasan Minhaj's thorny web of lies with Slate staff writer, Nitish Pahwa, who detailed the devastating impact of Minhaj's many falsehoods in his essay, “Hasan Minhaj Meant Something to Brown Americans. Was It All an Act?” Finally, the three react to “The 40 Greatest Stand-Alone TV Episodes of All Time,” written by the Slate Staff, a massive labor of love and fun thought experiment that spans The Sopranos, Atlanta, The Larry Sanders Show, Black Mirror, and High Maintenance.  In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, the panel discusses the impact the last few years have had on their lives, inspired by Katy Schneider's essay for The Cut, “The Pandemic Skip.” Email us at culturefest@slate.com.  Endorsements: Dana: Dana sent this to everyone she knows–family, friends, etc. It's a new interview with Martin Scorsese, written by Zach Baron for GQ entitled “Martin Scorsese: ‘I Have To Find Out Who The Hell I Am.'” In addition to films and moviemaking (his latest, Killers of the Flower Moon, is set to be released in October), the legendary director, now 80, also speaks candidly about life, its inevitable end, and his own mortality. It's a dream of an interview and absolutely sublime.  Kat: Small Things Like These, a beautifully written historical fiction novel by Claire Keegan about the horrific conditions women and children endured at Magdalene Laundries in Ireland.  Stephen: “Quantum poetics,” an essay in Aeon written by William Egginton, a professor of humanities at James Hopkins University. In it, Egginton describes the ways Argentine short story author, Jorge Luis Borges, and German theoretical physicist Werner Heisenberg “converged on the notion that language both enables and interferes with our grasp of reality.”  Outro music: “Forbidden Love” by OTE Podcast production by Cameron Drews. Production assistance by Kat Hong.  If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows. You'll also be supporting the work we do here on the Culture Gabfest. Sign up now at Slate.com/cultureplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Stephen and Dana are joined by guest host Kat Chow, journalist and author of the 2021 memoir Seeing Ghosts. The panel begins by wading through HELL, Chris Fleming's new hour-long comedy special that's both puzzling and delightfully goofy. Then, the three consider Astrakan, a deeply dark and unsettling first feature from director David Depesseville, and attempt to parse through the film's (intentionally?) ambiguous messages. Finally, they conclude by discussing Rotten Tomatoes, the widely used critical review aggregation site and subject of the recent Vulture exposé by Lane Brown, “The Decomposition of Rotten Tomatoes,” which details a “gaming of the system” by Hollywood PR teams.  In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, the panel dives into the 2023 U.S. Open, specifically the effect of extreme heat on gameplay and how the sport will need to contend with climate change going forward.  Email us at culturefest@slate.com.  Endorsements: Kat: C Pam Zhang's brilliant upcoming novel The Land of Milk and Honey.  Dana: One of the best novels she's read in years, Idlewild by James Frankie Thomas. Stephen: The Guest by Emma Cline, a novel that serves as a “carefully observed ethnography of the super rich.”  Outro music: “On the Keys of Steel” by Dusty Decks. Podcast production by Cameron Drews. Production assistance by Kat Hong.  If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows. You'll also be supporting the work we do here on the Culture Gabfest. Sign up now at Slate.com/cultureplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Stephen and Dana are joined by guest host Kat Chow, journalist and author of the 2021 memoir Seeing Ghosts. The panel begins by wading through HELL, Chris Fleming's new hour-long comedy special that's both puzzling and delightfully goofy. Then, the three consider Astrakan, a deeply dark and unsettling first feature from director David Depesseville, and attempt to parse through the film's (intentionally?) ambiguous messages. Finally, they conclude by discussing Rotten Tomatoes, the widely used critical review aggregation site and subject of the recent Vulture exposé by Lane Brown, “The Decomposition of Rotten Tomatoes,” which details a “gaming of the system” by Hollywood PR teams.  In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, the panel dives into the 2023 U.S. Open, specifically the effect of extreme heat on gameplay and how the sport will need to contend with climate change going forward.  Email us at culturefest@slate.com.  Endorsements: Kat: C Pam Zhang's brilliant upcoming novel The Land of Milk and Honey.  Dana: One of the best novels she's read in years, Idlewild by James Frankie Thomas. Stephen: The Guest by Emma Cline, a novel that serves as a “carefully observed ethnography of the super rich.”  Outro music: “On the Keys of Steel” by Dusty Decks. Podcast production by Cameron Drews. Production assistance by Kat Hong.  If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows. You'll also be supporting the work we do here on the Culture Gabfest. Sign up now at Slate.com/cultureplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“It was going to be a story about American instability, and precarity, and what happens when we aren't able to access the things that we need — and yet still have to try to care for each other anyway.” Nicole Chung's newest memoir, A Living Remedy, reflects on the tragic inequality of access to the American healthcare system and the way it directly affected her family. Chung talks with us about privilege and class, how writing this memoir changed her, her literary influences and more with Poured Over host, Miwa Messer. And we end this episode with TBR Topoff book recommendations from Marc and Madyson. This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Executive Producer Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang.   New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app.    Featured Books (Episode): A Living Remedy by Nicole Chung All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung How to Write an Autobiographical Novel by Alexander Chee The Swimmers by Julie Otsuka    Featured Books (TBR Topoff): The Anthropocene Reviewed by John Green Seeing Ghosts by Kat Chow 

Nerdette Book Club is back to discuss ‘How Far the Light Reaches: A Life in Ten Sea Creatures' by Sabrina Imbler! This sparkling essay collection explores themes of community, queerness, and survival by weaving marine biology with stories from the author's life. Kat Chow, former NPR reporter and the author of the memoir ‘Seeing Ghosts,' and Rachel E. Gross, science journalist and author of ‘Vagina Obscura: An Anatomical Voyage,' join us for the discussion. We gush about Sabrina's writing, the power of empathy, and the beauty of creatures so unlike ourselves.

From Ocean Vuong, the author of the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous and critically-acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky With Exit Wounds, comes Time Is a Mother, a deeply intimate poetry collection that finds Vuong searching for life among the aftershocks of his mother's death. In conversation with Kat Chow, a reporter, writer, and author of the New York Times Notable Book of 2021, Seeing Ghosts: A Memoir. Chow was a founding member of NPR's Code Switch team and podcast. This program was held on April 7 in partnership with Politics and Prose. 

The planets are aligning. Are you ready for a new vibe? Kat Chow and Margaret Willison discuss. Then, Jennifer Egan tells us about her new book ‘The Candy House.' Plus, the history behind the “adopt don't shop” dog rescue movement.

Do holiday movies actually make money for networks like Hallmark and Netflix? How many Vanessa Hudgens characters is too many Vanessa Hudgens characters? Sam is joined by Pop Culture Happy Hour co-host Linda Holmes and author Kat Chow to discuss the best and worst 2021 holiday movies on TV and talk about the business behind them.

Here & Now's Scott Tong sat down with author Kat Chow to dive into the family histories and personal reflections that characterized their respective books, "A Village with My Name" and "Seeing Ghosts." And, chef and author Gyulshat Esenova describes how the desert climate of her native Turkmenistan shaped traditional Turkmen food, such as lamb cutlet. Here & Now's Lynn Menegon has the story.

In this episode from our friends at NPR's Code Switch podcast, Kat Chow chats with former host Shereen Marisol Meraji about her memoir, Seeing Ghosts. After her mother died when Chow was 13, her family rarely discussed how to handle their loss. Chow says she wrote this memoir as a way to talk with her mother about that grief, her navigation of identity and her family's history. You can follow us on Twitter @NPRItsBeenAMin and email us at samsanders@npr.org.

Jeff and Phil welcome writer and friend Kat Chow, author of Seeing Ghosts, a memoir about grief, intergenerational loss, reclaiming your family's story... and taxidermy. She talks about The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of seeing figurative and/or literal ghosts.

‘What do we owe in death? What do we owe to our parents?'

Losing a parent at a young age shapes a person. In her debut memoir, “Seeing Ghosts,” Kat Chow pours her grief onto the page and examines how the loss of her mother when she was only 13 both marked her and made her into who she is today. She also looks back at past generations of her family to examine how their journey from China and Hong Kong to Cuba and America both marked and made them. Her book asks what it means to reclaim and tell your family story. Is it a form of exorcism? Or is it a way to hold on to those we loved and lost? Listen to Kerri Miller's fascinating conversation about big books and bold ideas, as she talks with Chow about her new book and family identity.

Former NPR reporter and journalist Kat Chow had a fear of death growing up which only made the death of her mother hit harder. In her debut memoir, Seeing Ghosts, Kat attempts to preserve her mother and her idiosyncrasies while also recounting her family's grieving process. Kat and Zibby discuss the process of mourning and memorializing those who have passed on and how the collective grief from Covid has impacted them.Purchase on Amazon or Bookshop.Amazon: https://amzn.to/3jlfS08Bookshop: https://bit.ly/3sRKQQh See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

A mother's death casts a long shadow over a woman's life. Kat Chow is a founding member of the Code Switch podcast team from NPR, and she joins host Krys Boyd to tell her story of grief, not only for herself, but for her extended family, spread out across the world. Her book is called “Seeing Ghosts: A Memoir.”

Kat Chow was 13 when her mother died, and with that loss came profound and lasting questions about identity, family and history. In her memoir, Seeing Ghosts, the author and former Code Switch reporter explores how her mother's death has haunted her through the years, in ways that are profound, tragic and, sometimes, darkly hilarious.

With this past year being one of loss, the Cut's B.A. Parker seeks guidance in grief. Author and journalist Kat Chow discusses her new memoir "Seeing Ghosts." After the loss of her mother, Kat discovers the depths of family history that lie just beneath the surface. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Grief, trauma and tragedy run through Kat Chow's family tree, with everything coming together in 1980s Connecticut. Kat joins us on the show to talk about death and grief, ghosts and survival and debt, what it was like to report her own family's story, taxidermy as metaphor, and more. Featured books: Seeing Ghosts by Kat Chow and Wave by Sonali Deraniyagala. Produced/Hosted by Miwa Messer and engineered by Harry Liang. Poured Over is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher. New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays. Follow us here for new episodes Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Kat Chow joins us to discuss the memoir Seeing Ghosts (Grand Central, Aug. 24), a deeply loving account of her mother's life and death, and and investigation into the ways we help shape the narratives of those we love. And in a sponsored interview, Megan talks with Chuck Wendig, author of Dust and Grim (Little, Brown, Oct. 5; starred review). Then our editors join with their top picks in books for the week.

Seeing Ghosts by Kat Chow by Poets & Writers

Danny Lavery welcomes Kat Chow, a reporter and author of the forthcoming memoir, Seeing Ghosts. Lavery and Chow tackle two letters: First, from a letter writer who is wondering how to trust a partner with a history of cheating. Another letter writer is wondering if her emotional affair with her best friend should be taken more seriously. Also, Chow takes a deep dive into Seeing Ghosts. Slate Plus members get another episode of Big Mood, Little Mood every Friday: sign up now! Need advice? Send Danny a question here. Email: mood@slate.com Production by Phil Surkis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Danny Lavery welcomes Kat Chow, a reporter and author of the forthcoming memoir, Seeing Ghosts. Lavery and Chow tackle two letters: First, from a letter writer who is wondering how to trust a partner with a history of cheating. Another letter writer is wondering if her emotional affair with her best friend should be taken more seriously. Also, Chow takes a deep dive into Seeing Ghosts. Slate Plus members get another episode of Big Mood, Little Mood every Friday: sign up now! Need advice? Send Danny a question here. Email: mood@slate.com Production by Phil Surkis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We unpack the week that was with Joanne Freeman, a historian and co-host of ‘Now & Then' podcast, and Kat Chow, a reporter and writer formerly with ‘Code Switch' who now has an upcoming memoir called ‘Seeing Ghosts.' Then, theoretical physicist Dr. Avi Loeb tells us why extraterrestrial intelligence is more likely than you think. AND! This month's Book Club author David Yoon gives us a preview of what we can expect from Joy Revolution, the new YA imprint he runs with his wife Nicola Yoon.

We unpack the week that was with Joanne Freeman, a historian and co-host of ‘Now & Then' podcast, and Kat Chow, a reporter and writer formerly with ‘Code Switch' who now has an upcoming memoir called ‘Seeing Ghosts.' Then, theoretical physicist Dr. Avi Loeb tells us why extraterrestrial intelligence is more likely than you think. AND! This month's Book Club author David Yoon gives us a preview of what we can expect from Joy Revolution, the new YA imprint he runs with his wife Nicola Yoon.

In Episode 2, hosts Matteo Wong and Olivia Oldham rewind 40 years to the story of the 1980 report, “A Study of Race Relations at Harvard College,” and ask why it seems to have been forgotten in recent University climate survey efforts.Further reading on the model minority myth:“‘Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks,” 4/19/2017, by Kat Chow on NPR's Code Switch, https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/04/19/524571669/model-minority-myth-again-used-as-a-racial-wedge-between-asians-and-blacksThe Color of Success: Asian Americans and the Origins of the Model Minority by Ellen D. WuFor Asian American history that goes beyond the model minority myth, The Making of Asian America: A History by Erika Lee.Further reading on SFFA:“Where Does Affirmative Action Leave Asian-Americans?”, 8/28/2019, Jay Caspian Kang, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/magazine/affirmative-action-asian-american-harvard.html“The Uncomfortable Truth About Affirmative Action and Asian-Americans,” 8/10/2017, Jeannie Suk Gersen, https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-affirmative-action-and-asian-americans“The Harvard Admissions Lawsuit, Explained,” 11/7/2016, Brittany N. Ellis, https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/11/7/harvard-admissions-lawsuit-explainer/“The Harvard Admissions Lawsuit Decision, Analyzed,” 10/3/2019, Camille G. Caldera and Delano R. Franklin, https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2019/10/3/admissions-decision-explained/“How SFFA Is Trying to Convince SCOTUS To Hear Its Suit Against Harvard,” 3/5/2021, Vivi E. Lu and Dekyi T. Tsotsong, https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/3/5/sffa-petitions-supreme-court/Links for the “I, Too, Am Harvard Campaign”: https://itooamharvard.tumblr.com/https://www.ahsantetheartist.com/diversity-at-harvardhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIsd5gDuEBGIKLSa_vcJFlg

Derek and Maria Broaddus couldn’t have been more thrilled. In the summer of 2014, they bought their dream home in Westfield, New Jersey. But their dream home quickly turned into a nightmare when the couple received a series of unsettling anonymous letters. The letter writer knew their names. The writer knew the nicknames they gave their children. The writer alluded to secrets within the walls of the home, and referred to the Broaddus children as “young blood.” Each creepy letter was signed, “the watcher.”  Then, Kristin tells us about the controversy surrounding the literary estate of Laura Ingalls Wilder. Laura Ingalls Wilder authored the Little House on the Prairie series of children’s books. She began writing them when she was in her sixties. The books brought her tremendous financial stability. When she died, her will was crystal clear. Her literary estate would go to her daughter, Rose Wilder Lane. Upon Rose’s death, the literary estate would go to the Laura Ingalls Library of Mansfield, Missouri. But that’s not what happened.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Lawsuit on the prairie: Battle pits small library against huge estate,” by Hallie Levine for the New York Post “Little library on the offensive,” by Lynda Richardson for The New York Times “Little library on the prairie  in a legal tangle,” by Stephanie Simon for the Los Angeles Times “Little house on the controversy: Laura Ingalls Wilder’s name removed from book award,” by Kat Chow for NPR “Rose Wilder Lane” entry on Wikipedia “Laura Ingalls Wilder” entry on Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Haunting of a Dream House” by Reeves Wiedeman, The Cut “The Real Life Story Of The Watcher Feels Like A Stephen King Novel” by Alana Robson, TheThings.com (http://thethings.com) “'The Watcher' house is sold years after a family was terrorized with creepy letters” by Allen Kim, CNN

"White people are comfortable anywhere," says restaurateur Andy Shallal. "In order for a black person to walk into a space, there need to be signals that say, 'You're welcome.'" In this week's show we decode those signals, which include the decor and music, the staff and other customers, and more. These codes tell you what kind of place a restaurant is, and whether it's for you. So what happens when a restaurant uses these signals to bring certain people in, and keep others out? This week we visit three very different restaurants in Washington D.C. to talk with the owners and customers about the different signals these places send, and what those codes can tell us about larger questions of race and culture. This episode is co-hosted by writer and reporter Kat Chow, formerly of the NPR podcast and blog Code Switch. Note: This episode first aired four years ago. We know that many of us can’t go to restaurants right now, but we think the questions it raises are bigger than restaurants, and remain very relevant today. Get 500+ more great Sporkful episodes from our catalog and lots of other Stitcher goodness when you sign up for Stitcher Premium: www.StitcherPremium.com/Sporkful (promo code: SPORKFUL). Transcript available at www.sporkful.com.

We've all seen zombie films - somebody gets bitten, there's screaming, they turn bad and then there's more screaming. What if a bite weren't enough? What if you had to be rejected from the underworld to return, dead, to the land of the living? Or what if you were immune? Marcus and Melissa explore two novel indigenous approaches to zombie horror. They share a commitment to authentic representation, but their tones and attitudes are dramatically different. Also, what zombified animal would you rather fight? Dead Lands: Motion Picture Terror Scale: 1. Quality: 4 (Marcus) / 5 (Melissa). Enjoyment: 5 Blood Quantum: MPTS: 4 / 4+. Quality: 2 / 2+. Enjoyment: 2 / 4 Articles mentioned in this episode: "How The Dead Lands hopes to change New Zealand television," by Alice Webb-Liddall in The Spinoff "How THE DEAD LANDS Brings Authentic Indigenous Storytelling to Horror (Exclusive)," by Rosie Knight in Nerdist "Latest All Blacks Haka intimidates the French," on YouTube "Blood Quantum’s Jeff Barnaby on the history and horror of his Indigenous zombie movie: ‘I feel like I barely got out of this one alive’" by Sarah-Tai Black in The Globe and Mail "So What Exactly Is 'Blood Quantum'?" by Kat Chow in NPR's Code Switch Podcast

Tolentino, a staff writer at The New Yorker since 2016, has quickly become one of the most exciting and authoritative critical voices of the millennial generation. Praised for her fierce intelligence, formidable mix of skepticism and optimism, and her lyrical, lucid prose, Tolentino has written on a wide range of social and cultural topics, from music and marriage to female empowerment and race in publishing. Her eagerly awaited book presents nine new essays that see through the hype and contradictions of contemporary life to show us a clearer picture of ourselves and our historical moment.Tolentino is in conversation with Kat Chow, reporter for NPR and founding member of Code Switch, currently working on a memoir about grief and identity forthcoming from Grand Central Publishing.https://www.politics-prose.com/book/9780525510543Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kat Chow of NPR's Code Switch wrote about using the term "yellow" to describe East Asians in her article If We Called Ourselves Yellow. Lin discusses her unease with the term and its association with disease. From there, a conversation about acetate glasses manufactured to fit only a narrow strip of the population evolves into how stereotypes about races and ethnicities still reign in the popular imagination. Finally, Margrit raves about Webtoons and their rich and entertaining library of diverse comic art. Question of the episode: How do you feel about using the word "yellow" to describe East Asians? Bonus question: Do you have trouble finding glasses that fit? Do you have any solutions for making glasses fit better? Join the conversation on Twitter at @World_ofStories or email us at worldofstoriespodcast@gmail.com.  Transcript Margrit  00:00 Hi, welcome to World of Stories. I'm Margrit and my pronoun is they.   Lin  00:05 I'm Lin and my pronouns she and we're here to talk about diversity and storytelling.   Margrit  00:09 Indeed. So what's new this week in your life, Lin.   Lin  00:13 So there is an article written by Kat Chow, who is a journalist with NPR's CodeSwitch podcast and the article is called If We Called Ourselves Yellow. And it is about the term "yellow" to describe East Asians and she writes about how--sort of the origins of where this term came from, and some of the negative connotations that surround the use of this term "yellow" and how other ethnicities use colors like Black and Brown to describe themselves. And, the use of those terms is not viewed in a negative light. But yet yellow still is. And so she was saying how she's thinking about reclaiming this word. And it's a very, it's a very interesting article and it goes both into history and also sort of her thoughts about what to do with this term. Yeah, what to do with this term going forward?   Margrit  01:29 Right? Right. It does a really good job of presenting the cultural history of the term and how it pans out in like a bunch of movies and other kinds of, you know, cultural artifacts that were distributed and how that perpetuated a certain image of East Asian people in general. And how also that connected to policy, right?   Lin  02:00 Yeah, with immigration policies in the US. There was the Chinese Exclusion Act, I believe that was in place for decades and decades, where Chinese people were just not allowed to immigrate into the US. And then there was also Japanese internment during World War Two. I think there's a couple of others that she mentioned.   Margrit  02:22 Both of which Canada--   Lin  02:26 Yes, that's right. Yes. Those were both in Canada. And if I remember correctly, the Japanese internment was actually worse in Canada than it was in the US. If I have my Canadian history remembered correctly.   Margrit  02:54 I find this concept, like this way of reclaiming former slurs as a means of empowerment for a certain community, I find it really interesting. And it's very cool how it pans out for all kinds of marginalization. Like, for example, the term queer, being reclaimed and used as a way of identifying. And I was just wondering how you personally felt about it. After I read the article--I think it's a really, really well written article. And it's really wonderful in terms of being informative, but it will also leave you very angry if you have any kind of social justice leanings. How do you feel about this term?   Lin  03:39 Yeah, I've always... So it's interesting that this article came out now because I have been thinking about the use of the term yellow a couple of months ago, and I have no idea why I was thinking about it, but I was. And then again, this comparison with using Black to describe people, and Brown to describe certain groups of people. And I am kind of uncomfortable with the term yellow.   Margrit  04:09 Why is that?   Lin  04:10 It always reminds me, it reminds me of jaundice. Like yellow skin is like jaundice, right? Which isn't like an illness. It's a sickness. It's a disease and so... so yeah, that's, I guess my aversion to it. And she doesn't actually mention jaundice in the article, but it does talk about how there's a connotation of illness and toxicity and poison when it comes to this idea of yellow, particularly yellow skin. So yeah, I'm not opposed to the idea of reclaiming that word. And in viewing a different definition and connotation on to that word. And like, as you said, like, the term queer and a lot of members of the LGBTQ community have reclaimed that word. And I think there's certainly power in that. I just--for yellow, might take some time getting used to.   Margrit  05:21 Oh no, absolutely. And that's obviously up to the community and she--Chao--does a good job of, I think, interviewing a bunch of people and asking them, how do you feel about that? What do you think about that? And I think the way that the article presented, it's a really interesting way in which, you know, every single person that she's interviewed, then comes with a different facet of the history of the use of the term and its representation, popular culture and how it still sort of influences popular representations to this day and a lot of harmful stereotypes when it comes to East Asian people, right?   Lin  06:03 Yeah. And, you know, this reminds me of this other article that I was--that I came across today. Or a couple of days ago, I should say. Give me one second, I'm just going to find it.   Margrit  06:19 When she talks about the late 60s movements, like reclaiming the word yellow, and the yellow power, it just reminded me of the Black Panthers who did kind of the same thing. And it was, it was kind of at the same time, too. So, you know, the late 60s revolutionary movements across the world, really, were trying to shift, you know, oppression away and empower marginalized communities in that way. And there's a lot of similarities and--   Lin  06:52 Yeah, I think in order to reclaim that word, people actually have to use it. And I don't know if I've seen that many East Asian people be willing to use the word yellow? I could be wrong. I could just not be aware of, of groups who are using that. But, yeah, I just don't see it anywhere. So that article around Asian stereotypes reminds me of this other article on Refinery29 written by Kristin Wong, and the article is called the "Ideal" Immigrant Worker is a Problematic Trope, especially for women. And she goes into--she starts the article off talking about her mother calling her, and her mother is complaining, confiding about some workplace relationships that seem to be perpetrated by racial stereotypes. And so she goes into how a lot of the values and the sort of behavioral--how do I say this?  This is why I need scripts.  So she goes into how a lot of the values of immigrants, particularly East Asian immigrants, affect the way that people interact in the workplace and to the detriment of the immigrant. And that's obviously not limited just to East Asians, but also to other--   Margrit  08:57 But there is and I think, more in the States. There's this notion of the model minority, right? And East Asians are, and South Asians to some degree. And I think it refers to the fact that, you know, some communities tend to struggle, probably financially and in many other ways in order to get their children in education. So they sacrifice everything, just to get that education and to make sure that the children, you know, first generation immigrants and so on, attain a certain social status. And, that's viewed as sort of the ideal immigrant basically.   Lin  09:40 Yeah, so the values of you know, working hard, not complaining.   Margrit  09:43 Exactly.   Lin  09:44 You know, just like doing the work.   Margrit  09:46 Not stirring the pot.   Lin  09:48 Right and not claiming rights that they don't feel that they are entitled to.   Margrit  09:54 Yeah.   Lin  09:56 And so yeah, that really resonated with me. And yeah. And so speaking about things that East Asians don't feel like we are entitled, I actually have a rant about glasses. Okay, so I've worn glasses since I was eight years old, I think so I've worn glasses my whole life. And for people who know, who wear glasses, there are two main types of glasses, one is the wireframe glasses, with the clear plastic nose pads that are attached to the wireframe. And then the other group is acetate glasses, which is basically like the hard plastic and the nose pad is part of the frame. It's just molded plastic. Yes, okay. So when I was in high school or university, I don't remember now. But around that time, all of the trendy glasses were acetate glasses. And you know, I wanted to be the cool kid and be trendy and all that. So, I bought acetate glasses, because that's what all the cool kids were wearing. Right? Exactly. And, but they always slid down my nose and I thought, well, that's just what glasses, do they just slide down people's noses. And I didn't know any better from so for like 20 years. This is not 20 years of not quite that old. But for a good 10 plus years. That's just what my glasses always did. They just slid down my face. And about two years ago, some manufacturers started making these things called Asian fit glasses.   Margrit  10:22 Oh my god.   Lin  10:54 Yeah. And I was like, what is this and I like, went to a store, I tried them on and I'm like, "Oh my god, I didn't realize glasses could fit well." Like, they're not falling off my face, they like stay where I want them to stay, and they're comfortable. What is going on?   Margrit  12:13 So glasses are not supposed to just slide down your nose?   Lin  12:16 Apparently not. Yeah, who knew. And so the difference is that these are--the quote unquote Asian fit glasses are acetate glasses, but the nose piece is bigger so it actually extends out toward the face more than the standard fit glasses. And so what that does is it lifts the whole glasses higher up off the face and positions it correctly. It's less likely to slide down the nose because there's more plastic or material to sort of grip the nose and then my cheeks don't touch the bottom of the glasses, which in a lot of cases they do and then it just like, it's uncomfortable and it's smudges the classes as well. So I was like, I can't believe that my entire life I've been wearing glasses that don't fit my nose because as the case with most East Asian people, I have a flat wide nose. And that's technically called a low nose bridge nose.   Margrit  13:33 I like how it's still your problem. You don't have a standard nose, you have low bridge. So I mean, get that sorted out.   Lin  13:47 Okay, but hold on a second now, like most East Asian people have this type of nose, but also Southeast Asians and Africans and Black people and Indigenous people. This is like half the world that have noses that are like this.   Margrit  14:01 This is what my sarcasm was aimed at is that you know.   Lin  14:04 I know.   Margrit  14:05 Oh my goodness, this is--   Lin  14:07 Yeah, so it's like half the planet can't wear glasses that fit their faces.   Margrit  14:12 Right. So right, because they're designed...   Lin  14:16 Yeah, they're designed for like a narrow, pointy-er, for lack of a better word, or like a higher nose bridge nose.   Margrit  14:28 Or the much dreaded amongst my people, the Jewish nose, which has a bump right after the bridge. I was blessed without it. And but my whole experience, especially as a young person in Europe, when I would tell somebody that I'm Jewish, they would look at me like askance, you know, like the head tilt? Like the puppy, the confused puppy look where it's like, but you don't have a Jewish nose. And I'm like, well I must not be Jewish. Thank you so much for informing me about that.   Lin  15:05 Right, because you have to have that nose in order to be Jewish.   Margrit  15:08 Ah, right. And and it's interesting that we kind of roll back to kind of where we started from that shows, sort of cultural investigation of the use of the word yellow and, and all kinds of representations of Asian people because the idea of the Jewish nose was popularized by Nazi propaganda in all of their caricatures and representations of the Jewish menace. There was always like, sort of hunchback, middle aged Jewish man with a hook nose, and that was out to get the poor, you know, the poor Arian people out of their rightful place in, in the world, right? And so again, talking about stereotypes that endure. It's ridiculous how one small thing can just or something that somebody just throws out there can just live forever and ever and be so incredibly harmful to so many people.   Lin  16:14 Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.   Margrit  16:17 Yeah, because when I was reading--again, when I was reading Chao's article, it reminded me a few years ago, I was teaching a course on race and ethnicity and literature and we were reading Edward Long's History of Jamaica. And Edward Long was this British colonizer in Jamaica, he was some sort of official there and he just, you know, out of his own, free will took it upon himself to write a history of Jamaica, because obviously he was the expert. This was mid-18th century, 1770-something I think it was when it was written. And he was the one who was like, "Okay, I am observing things and therefore that must be the truth." So he, I think the whole image of like, the over sexualized African person can be traced back to his observations because he basically said, "Oh, look, African people have very, very wide lips, therefore, they must be very into sex."   Lin  17:19 Oh my god.   Margrit  17:20 And so this is a stereotype that endures. It has been so harmful, you know, the whole sexualization of Black people and sort of, you know, Black men are out there to rape white women and so they're very, very harmful. It's just to this day such an enduring, harmful, terrible stereotype that we just cannot get rid of that easily. And it's just something that originated with somebody who just thought themselves entitled to what is out there.   Lin  17:52 Yeah, and like, same thing with the exoticizing of East Asia, right? Going back to Chao's article. East Asia was always thought of as this very exotic place. And for some reason yellow was also, has that same connotation, which I don't understand how yellow can be--the color yellow is exotic, but anyways. Even to this day when there are so many stories out there when you think of, oh, the Orient is this exotic place and you know, the white man goes to somewhere in the Orient and learns, you know, enhances his sexual prowess through learning from some, like teacher or something like that. You know, there's a lot of that stuff going on too, today.   Margrit  18:45 Yeah, yeah, yes, absolutely. The exoticizing is alive and well and you know, Asia as a place of mystery and people being lazy because it's warm outside. And therefore they don't have to work. All of these connections that just seem like when you try to unpack them, they just seem so ridiculous and untenable, and yet they persist in the sort of white Western Eurocentric imagination as proof, right? Yeah.   Lin  18:46 Yeah. Yeah.   Margrit  19:22 Well, yeah.   Lin  19:24 That was all very depressing.   Margrit  19:28 No.   Lin  19:30 So, um, what have you been enjoying this week?  Let's talk about something to lift our spirits?   Margrit  19:36 Yes, I have been enjoying this for a long time. It's webtoons. Do you know about webtoons?   Lin  19:42 Webtoons. I've heard it because you've told me about it. Please tell us more.   Margrit  19:47 So webtoons is basically this type of comics that originated in South Korea. I think it was in the early 2000s. But I wouldn't--I don't have a citation for that. So it's very unacademic of me. And it's the thing about them is that basically they're comics that are, unlike manga that are published in books, they're designed for the online environment. And so they have vertical scroll, and they're very colorful. And I've been enjoying this app called Webtoon, which is available, I guess, on all platforms. And it's a platform for comic artists to present their, their work. And it's curated. So do you, do you ever read comics?   Lin  20:41 You know, I have not. So I wouldn't say I know anything about comics.   Margrit  20:48 There's a terrible gap in your cultural knowledge and you should totally remedy it, Lin. I don't know if we can be friends anymore. But the thing about Webtoon is that they have all of the genres so you can find romance or you can find science fiction or fantasy or slice of life. And there is a, there's a huge variety of artistic styles as well. So some of them are sort of very elaborate and complex drawings with a lot of--you can see that they've gone through many, many, many stages and drafts, and others are, you know, sketches in which the focus is on the story or on the shtick or anything like that. So there's definitely something for everyone. Even if you're not, you know, that much or you think you're not that much into comics, it's just a very good way to unwind these days with all that's happening.   Lin  21:54 Do you have any recommendations for where people can start?   Margrit  21:58 Oh, well, I can tell you what I've been enjoying so I, I love a bunch of them. And I'm only gonna mention--you have to stop me. So one of my favorites is Jem Yoshioka's Circuits and Veins. And it's about two women, one of whom is human. And the other one is an android and they sort of move in--they don't move in--the android moves into the apartment next door to the human and the human suffers from anxiety. And so a lot of it is just up in her apartment. And it's, and I think the way that they meet--the meet cute as it were--is that the human has designed these software, VR pets. They're kind of like a cross between very cute pomeranians and pineapples,   Lin  22:48 And pineapples?   Margrit  22:50 Pineapple pomeradians kind of a thing. It's really really cute and I am not doing it justice. So they meet and they kind of like each other and they start dating. And it's just so so super adorable. And this one particularly is very, very low angst. And I find I find this a lot about the stories in Webtoon, especially these days with all of the things that are happening in the real world and in politics and stuff like that. I find that low angst is my comfort. So if you are into anime, I really recommend a slice of life kind of comic. Like there's this, I think the artist is based in Malaysia, and she draws this comic called My Giant Nerd Boyfriend. And again, so super cute. The whole shtick is that the boyfriend is I think around two feet taller than the girlfriend. Oh, right, the 60 centimeters or so I think, the art is not very complex, but it's so good with the story and it's all about their daily life and their day-to-day relationship and how lovely and caring they are to one another. And it's just adorable. And it's just one of those things that gives you hope, or you know, makes you smile and gives you hope for the day till you encounter another article about microaggressions.   Lin  24:28 We need a lot of hope these days. A lot of it.   Margrit  24:31 I think we do.   Lin  24:33 Okay, should we do question of the episode?   Margrit  24:35 Sure. Let's do a question of the episode.   Lin  24:38 Okay, so how about what do listeners think about using the term yellow to describe East Asians? Does it give you an icky feeling like it gives me or do you think it's something that East Asians should reclaim and give a new definition to?   Margrit  25:03 That is a very, very good question. And I hope you will take a moment to answer it. And you can answer it on Twitter at @World_ofStories. And we look forward to hearing from you.   Lin  25:22 Yes. And bonus question. If you wear glasses, do you have problems finding glasses that fit? And if you've figured out a solution to get glasses to fit better, please tell me because I desperately want to know.   Margrit  25:39 Help Lin out with the glasses.   Lin  25:42 I have glasses problems. So come join the conversation. We want to know what you think. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast wherever you listen, iTunes or Google Play or on Spotify. We are now on Spotify, which is very exciting. And if you like our show, please leave us a review or tell your friends. And we hope that you have a great couple of weeks.   Margrit  26:10 Wonderful. Subscribe and we'll hear from you soon, I hope. Take care.   Lin  26:14 Take care. Bye

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