Podcasts about Chinese Exclusion Act

In this powerful episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, host Simma the Inclusionist sits down with Emmy award-winning journalist and author Dion Lim to confront a question too many are avoiding: "Why has the conversation about anti-Asian hate gone silent"? Dion takes us behind the headline-making DM that changed her career — an anonymous video of an elderly Asian man being brutally beaten in San Francisco — and reveals what it took to bring stories like his to light when her own newsroom resisted.  From the murder of Vincent Chin to COVID-era scapegoating, she traces the deep historical roots of anti-Asian racism in America. She explains why the silence after the peak of BLM and Stop AAPI Hate is not just disappointing — it's dangerous. Topics in This Episode: Why anti-Asian hate is "as old as the Gold Rush" — and why we're erasing that history The cultural shame that keeps Asian American victims from speaking out The death threats and hit pieces Dion faced for reporting the truth How DEI rollbacks are affecting communities right now What Black-Asian solidarity actually looks like on the ground The role food, music, and pop culture play in bridging racial divides Dion's new book Amplify: My Fight for Asian America (foreword by Olivia Munn) You'll hear: The anonymous 12-second DM that changed everything — a video of an elderly Asian man being attacked while collecting cans in San Francisco's Bayview neighborhood Why Asian American victims often don't come forward: cultural conditioning, family shame, distrust of media, and generational silence Anti-Asian hate isn't new — from the Gold Rush to Vincent Chin to Yik Oi Huang and Vishal Ratanapakdee How COVID gave people permission to blame Asians — and how "kung flu" and "China virus" language fueled violenc The backlash Dion faced: a Washington Post hit piece orchestrated by a former DA's team, death threats from people who denied anti-Asian hate was real Why the Asian American community isn't monolithic — income inequality, cultural differences, and the "model minority" myth The connection between Black and Asian communities — shared history, manufactured division, and what solidarity actually looks like on the ground Grassroots response: patrol groups, the Blue Angels in Oakland, and the role of everyday people showing up for each other Simma's own history with the original Rainbow Coalition — The Young Patriots, the Black Panthers, the Young Lords, and Asian groups working together in the late '60s and '70s The immigrant parent dynamic: silence as survival, pride as a long time coming, and what it meant when Dion's father finally expressed pride after her 20/20 appearance What Dion wants for the next generation: be loud, find your community, take care of your mental health, and don't be afraid to take up space TV recommendation: Warrior — the series about the rise of the Tongs and how Chinese workers were treated in California The ask: get Amplify on the New York Times bestseller list — and why it matters beyond sales Key Learnings: Silence is not safety. When institutions stop talking about race, hate doesn't disappear — it goes underground and grows. The rollback of DEI programs and race coverage in newsrooms makes communities more vulnerable, not more comfortable. Anti-Asian hate has deep American roots. This isn't a COVID story. It goes back to the Gold Rush, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and the murder of Vincent Chin. Understanding that history is the first step to not repeating it. Cultural conditioning keeps people quiet. Many Asian Americans are raised to not cause a fuss, not draw attention, not inconvenience others. That silence protects no one — it protects the people doing harm. Division between communities is often manufactured. The tension between Black and Asian communities didn't come from nowhere. It was seeded deliberately, and it dissolves quickly when people actually get to know each other. You don't have to share someone's experience to show up for them. The people who moved Dion most weren't Asian — they were people from every background who said "I didn't know, and now I do." Timestamps: 1:08 – Who is Dion Lim and why she's fighting for Asian America 2:51 – "It feels like crickets" — DEI rollbacks and the dangerous silence 4:05 – The 12-second video that changed Dion's career forever 5:50 – Anti-Asian hate didn't start with COVID — it goes back to the Gold Rush 8:43 – From fluff pieces to death threats: how Dion's journalism transformed 10:15 – The shameful cultural silence keeping Asian victims from speaking out 13:58 – The Washington Post hit piece, orchestrated by a DA's team 16:15 – Why people deny anti-Asian hate even exists 21:25 – "It was okay to blame Asians for COVID" — how a pandemic became a weapon 24:14 – Dion's own mother told her to stop reporting. Here's why. 27:42 – Are newsrooms giving up on covering race? 31:00 – The "model minority" myth that erases Asian poverty 39:22 – What real Black-Asian solidarity actually looks like 46:01 – The history America buried: forced labor, exclusion laws & the show Warrior 51:01 – Dion's call to action + her book Amplify Guest Bio: Dion is a beloved Emmy Award-winning journalist, two-time author, and international keynote speaker. For over 20 years, she has transformed complex, high-stakes issues into clear, compelling stories that resonate with millions. A trusted expert in media presence, Dion now helps executives and changemakers communicate with the same clarity, confidence, and impact. Her work amplifying underrepresented voices has built bridges across diverse communities and sparked lasting change. Connect with Dion Lim: Website: dionlim.com Instagram & Facebook: @dionlimtv LinkedIn: Dion Lim Get the book: Amplify: My Fight for Asian America — available now! If this episode moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Subscribe, leave a review, and help us get these conversations heard across the globe. Click here to DONATE and support our podcast All donations are tax deductible through Fractured Atlas. Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker, and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, Everyday Conversations on Race. Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her as a speaker for your next event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences. Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)  Connect with me: Instagram Facebook YouTube Twitter LinkedIn Tiktok Website Previous Episodes Frank Carbajal on Latino Leadership: From Migrant Farmworker Son to Silicon Valley Voice Dr. Gina Paige on African Ancestry: How DNA Reconnects Black Americans to Their African Roots From Black Panther to Corporate America: Elmer Dixon on Race, Revolution, and Why DEI Is Not Dead Loved this episode?  Leave us a review and rating

In Calgary's Chinatown, Teresa Wong Revisits A Family History Calgary cartoonist and author Teresa Wong is the author of the 2024 graphic memoir "All Our Ordinary Stories." Her great-grandfather came to Calgary more than a century ago—but the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1923 kept the rest of his family from following. Now Wong has created a new piece of artwork specifically to be printed on The Sprawl's Pop-Up Press in homage to Chinatown.

Calgary cartoonist and author Teresa Wong is the author of the 2024 graphic memoir "All Our Ordinary Stories." Her great-grandfather came to Calgary more than a century ago—but the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1923 kept the rest of his family from following. Now Wong has created a new piece of artwork specifically to be printed on The Sprawl's Pop-Up Press in homage to Chinatown. Jeremy Klaszus speaks with Wong about her family's roots in Calgary and what she's created for the Pop-Up Press—and why. Join The Sprawl for a printing pop-up with Wong on Sunday, June 14, at 2 p.m. Meet at Sien Lok Park in Chinatown and make a print of Wong's artwork!

It's episode 69, hey hey, and the ladies are not going to mention it. Jackie shares the pet photo challenge submissions including her bird who tried to drink her reflection water, and Ashe tells the proper version of Caleb's eighth birthday in Manhattan involving the Intrepid, Spider-Man dropping web from the rafters, Dylan's Candy Bar, and one harrowing taxi near miss. Christy unpacks the British idiom getting the sack, complete with a 1525 Zach spelling and the mental image of a Victorian raccoon hauling its belongings out the door. Ashe walks through a packed week in history covering Alan Shepard going to suborbital space (allegedly), Bobby Sands and the idea that everyone has a part to play, the Roger Bannister sub-four-minute mile, the Channel Tunnel, the Chinese Exclusion Act and its modern TPS parallels, the Lusitania, VE Day, Coca-Cola's first glass at Jacobs Pharmacy, Olympic boycotts as psyop fuel, Ben Franklin's Join or Die cartoon as the first political meme, the end of the Civil War, the Schuman Declaration as the birth of globalism, the transcontinental railroad golden spike, and Deep Blue defeating Kasparov as the original AI fear porn rerun we are still being sold today. Plus Gart updates and why all roads lead to Mark Elias being upset.

The Manitoba Museum has opened “The Paper Trail to the 1923 Chinese Exclusion Act”, a powerful exhibit uncovering a largely forgotten chapter of Canada's past and the human cost of exclusion and discrimination.

This Day in Legal History: Chinese Exclusion ActOn May 6, 1882, President Chester A. Arthur signed the Chinese Exclusion Act into law. The law imposed a 10-year ban on the immigration of Chinese laborers to the United States. It also made Chinese immigrants already in the country ineligible for naturalized citizenship, marking a major turn toward federal immigration restriction. The National Archives describes it as the first significant U.S. law restricting immigration and notes that it targeted an ethnic working group on the theory that it threatened public order.The law grew out of anti-Chinese racism and labor anxiety, especially in the American West, where Chinese workers were blamed for low wages and job competition. Although the Act formally applied to “Chinese laborers,” its enforcement burdened many Chinese people seeking entry, including those who claimed exempt status. The National Archives notes that the law helped create a broader framework for later race- and class-based exclusionary immigration policy.The Act was not temporary in practice. Congress extended it through the Geary Act of 1892, later made the exclusion regime permanent, and did not repeal the ban until 1943, during World War II, when the United States and China were allies.OpenAI president Greg Brockman testified in federal court that Elon Musk once supported changing OpenAI from a nonprofit into a for-profit company, but wanted full control of the organization as part of that shift. Brockman said Musk believed the nonprofit model could not raise enough money to build advanced AI systems. According to Brockman, Musk also said he needed an $80 billion stake to help fund a self-sustaining city on Mars. Brockman described a tense 2017 meeting where Musk allegedly rejected a proposed equity structure, became angry, took a painting made for him by Ilya Sutskever, and left while threatening to pause funding.Musk's lawsuit claims OpenAI and Sam Altman misled him into donating $38 million to a nonprofit that later abandoned its charitable mission in favor of profit. Musk is seeking $150 billion in damages for the nonprofit and wants Altman and Brockman removed from leadership. OpenAI argues that Musk is upset because he left before the company became highly successful and is now trying to gain control while also advancing his own AI company, xAI. Brockman also faced questions about his own financial interests, including testimony that his OpenAI stake is worth nearly $30 billion and evidence of an old diary entry about reaching $1 billion. OpenAI later created a for-profit unit controlled by the nonprofit, which helped it raise massive sums for computing power, hiring, and expansion.Musk wanted $80 billion to colonize Mars, OpenAI president testifies at trial | ReutersPublishers Elsevier, Cengage, Hachette, Macmillan, and McGraw Hill, along with author Scott Turow, sued Meta in federal court in Manhattan over its AI training practices. The lawsuit claims Meta used millions of copyrighted books and journal articles without permission to train its Llama large language models. The works allegedly included textbooks, scientific publications, and novels, such as books by N.K. Jemisin and Peter Brown. The publishers are seeking class-action status so they can represent a broader group of copyright owners. They are also asking for monetary damages.Meta responded that AI training can qualify as fair use and said it plans to fight the case. The publishers argue that using allegedly pirated copies of creative and scholarly works is not the same as lawful innovation. The case joins a growing wave of lawsuits by authors, news organizations, artists, and other creators against AI companies, including Meta, OpenAI, and Anthropic. These lawsuits largely turn on whether using copyrighted works to train AI models is legally protected because the resulting systems create something new and transformative. Courts have not yet settled the issue, and early rulings have pointed in different directions. Anthropic previously resolved one major author lawsuit for $1.5 billion, showing how financially significant these disputes can become.Major publishers sue Meta for copyright infringement over AI training | ReutersThe U.S. Supreme Court allowed its recent Louisiana voting-rights ruling to take effect earlier than usual, clearing the way for political and legal consequences before the November midterm elections. The Court's April 29 decision had struck down a Louisiana congressional map that created a second Black-majority district. That ruling weakened a major part of the Voting Rights Act by limiting challenges to maps that allegedly dilute minority voting power. Normally, the Supreme Court waits 32 days before issuing its formal judgment, giving the losing side time to seek rehearing. Here, the Court agreed to speed up the process after a request from the voters who had won the case.The move helps Louisiana Republicans pursue a new congressional map and may weaken lawsuits challenging Governor Jeff Landry's decision to delay the state's May 16 congressional primaries. Some challengers had argued that Landry acted too soon because the Supreme Court's ruling had not formally taken effect yet. Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson dissented, saying the Court's accelerated action had created disorder in Louisiana. The case is part of a broader national fight over redistricting, especially as both parties seek advantages in House races. The dispute began after Louisiana drew a second majority-Black district in 2024 to address a prior court ruling that the old map harmed Black voters under the Voting Rights Act. The Supreme Court later held that the replacement map relied too heavily on race, violating equal protection principles.US Supreme Court lets Voting Rights Act ruling take effect ahead of schedule | Reuters This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.minimumcomp.com/subscribe

The 14th Amendment to the Constitution says: “all persons born are naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” But on his first day back in office, President Donald Trump issued an executive order that changed that understanding. According to the President's executive order, going forward, the only people who will be U.S. citizens at birth are people who are born in the United States to parents who are citizens, at least one of whom is a citizen, or at least one of the parents is a legal permanent resident of the United States. And what does all of this mean for Native Americans?  In this episode, Greg Ablavsky, a Stanford Law professor and scholar of federal Indian law, joins Pam Karlan to discuss President Trump's challenge to birthright citizenship--a case now at the Supreme Court. The discussion centers on the 14th Amendment's Citizenship Clause and, in particular, the meaning of the phrase “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” Ablavsky explains why federal Indian law has become part of that debate. He traces the distinctive legal status of Native nations within the United States, the historical exception for members of tribal nations, and the way that history appears in seminal cases such as Elk v. Wilkins.  The conversation also looks at the relationship between Elk and U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the 1898 case that recognized birthright citizenship for a child born in the United States to Chinese parents. Along the way, Karlan and Ablavsky break down why history matters to the government's current effort to argue for new limits on birthright citizenship--and more. Links: Gregory Ablavsky >>> Stanford Law page Federal Ground: Governing Property and Violence in the First U.S. Territories >>> Stanford Law page Connect: Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast Website Stanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn Page Rich Ford >>>  Twitter/X Pam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School Page Stanford Law School >>> Twitter/X Stanford Lawyer Magazine >>> Twitter/X (00:00:00) Who qualifies as a U.S. citizen at birth? (00:03:54) The Origins of the 14th Amendment  (00:05:58) "Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof" (00:11:42) Citizenship at the Supreme Court (00:17:03) Native Americans, the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act, and the Presidency (00:18:49) The Supreme Court Oral Argument in Trump v. CASA (Barbara) — Analogies, Originalism, and the Native American (00:28:31) Practical Chaos, Hard Cases and What the Court Should Do Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Pulitzer Prize finalist and historian Megan Kate Nelson — author of the new book The Westerners: Mythmaking and Belonging on the American Frontier — joins the Chuck Toddcast for a fascinating conversation about how the story of the American West we all grew up with is largely a myth, and what the real history reveals about who actually built the country. Nelson explains that the dominant narrative was essentially invented by historian Frederick Jackson Turner in 1893, who argued the American creed was rooted in conquest and expansion — a framing that conveniently allowed white Americans to rally around westward expansion as a unifying project while papering over the uncomfortable realities of slavery and the brutal treatment of indigenous peoples. She walks through her seven central characters whose stories reclaim that history: Sacagawea (who wasn't actually famous until the 20th century), biracial fur trader Jim Beckwourth, Hispana saloon owner María Gertrudis Barceló (whose Santa Fe establishment inspired the modern Vegas casino), gold miner and newspaperman Ovando Hollister (who believed in human equality and later moved to Salt Lake City to agitate against the Mormons), Northern Cheyenne chief Little Wolf, Canadian immigrant rancher Ella Watson, and Chinese immigrant Polly Bemis. Nelson reveals the most surprising research findings — including how digitized old Colorado newspapers helped her discover stories that had been lost for generations — and discusses how Hollywood created and popularized the caricatures of the West that still dominate pop culture today. Link in bio or go to https://getsoul.com & enter code TODDCAST for 30% off your first order. Thank you Wildgrain for sponsoring. Visit http://wildgrain.com/TODDCAST and use the code "TODDCAST" at checkout to receive $30 off your first box PLUS free Croissants for life! Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/chuck. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. Timeline: (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements) 00:00 Megan Kate Nelson joins the Chuck ToddCast 01:30 What got you interested in the topic for The Westerners? 03:45 People still have a very entrenched idea of what the west is 05:00 The portrayal of the west has been improved in pop culture 06:45 Frederick Jackson Turner created the “myth” of the west 08:15 Turner argued the American creed was based on conquest & expansion 10:00 Turner’s narrative became the standard telling of American history 11:00 Western expansion papered over uncomfortable 19th century history 11:45 White Americans could rally around the west & avoid slavery 13:00 How did you get your research on the subjects of The Westerners? 13:45 Sacagawea wasn’t famous until the 20th century 14:30 Lewis & Clark was a core piece of context for the book 15:45 Most unique source material you found that filled in gaps? 19:00 Old local newspapers from Colorado were digitized, allowing discovery 20:15 Hollywood created and popularized caricatures of the west 21:15 Fears and hopes for the new “Little House on the Prairie" reboot? 23:00 How much did Laura Ingalls Wilder book create their own mythology? 24:00 White settlers received a great deal of help from the federal government 25:00 Transcontinental railroad enables the explosion of the cattle industry 25:30 Military deployed to protect white settlers, annihilate the indigenous 26:45 Expansion wasn’t just an east-west story, it was also a north-south story 30:00 Vegas casinos inspired by Maria Barcelo’s Santa Fe saloon 32:30 The story of southern migration from Canada 34:30 Timeline of the book is most of the 19th century 35:15 Role of Chinese workers/immigrants in the story of the west 37:00 Chinese workers came on a false promise, were trapped in their labor 40:30 Impact of the Chinese Exclusion Act 42:00 The story of Ovando Hollister 44:00 Hollister believed in the equality of all people. Went from military to newspapers 45:45 Hollister moved to Salt Lake City & agitated against the Mormons 46:30 Stories of the Native Americans are finally being depicted better 47:15 The story of Little Wolf 49:00 Little Wolf was a great military strategist and leader for his people 52:00 Histories of the west were heavily shaded by original bias 53:00 Balancing objectivity with your personal bias when writing history 54:30 Connecting individual stories in history to larger movements & moments 55:30 How would improve school curriculum to honestly depict the west? 59:45 The west was fairly violent before law enforcement became normalized 1:00:45 Next project is the story of a Kiowa and Comanche raid on ranching townSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Chuck Todd unleashes a fierce indictment of Trump's Iran war, walking through a series of devastating prophetic quotes from Trump's own 2016 Republican rivals, now supporters — Lindsey Graham calling his foreign policy "gibberish," Marco Rubio warning that turning the nuclear codes over to an erratic individual "wouldn't end well," Ted Cruz suggesting Trump could "nuke Denmark," and Nikki Haley raising alarms about his "irresponsible behavior" — all of which now look less like campaign rhetoric and more like haunting predictions of exactly the moment America finds itself in. He argues that whether you're a hawk or a dove on Iran, Donald Trump has failed you: he's pissed away American prestige and trust around the world, the Strait of Hormuz is now effectively in Iranian hands, the United States doesn't even know who it's negotiating with given uncertainty about the Ayatollah's status, and Trump is so desperate to escape the war he started that he was bizarrely celebrating a "ceasefire and joint venture with Iran" — a phrase that captures just how thoroughly this is turning into a massive humiliation for the United States. He notes that Netanyahu spent years trying to drag America into a war with Iran and finally found his sucker in Trump, that no advisor had the guts to challenge him before the strikes began, and that Obama's old foreign policy doctrine of "don't do stupid shit" has been violated in spectacular fashion. He flags an absurd new development — Trumpworld is now threatening the Vatican because the Pope spoke against the war, a politically idiotic move given how many Catholics live in swing states — and reiterates that success in the conflict would require ground troops Trump refuses to commit, meaning the damage is done and markets will take a long time to recover. Todd argues that the United States has become an erratic and unreliable ally to every country in the world, that the only nation benefiting from Trump's presidency is Russia. He closes on a political note: Democrats massively overperformed again in recent elections, including a shocking blowout in Wisconsin, the war is accelerating the GOP's problems heading into the midterms, and Republicans who distance themselves from Trump now will be very glad they did by 2028 — because the current political climate is pointing toward a massive blue wave. Pulitzer Prize finalist and historian Megan Kate Nelson — author of the new book The Westerners: Mythmaking and Belonging on the American Frontier — joins the Chuck Toddcast for a fascinating conversation about how the story of the American West we all grew up with is largely a myth, and what the real history reveals about who actually built the country. Nelson explains that the dominant narrative was essentially invented by historian Frederick Jackson Turner in 1893, who argued the American creed was rooted in conquest and expansion — a framing that conveniently allowed white Americans to rally around westward expansion as a unifying project while papering over the uncomfortable realities of slavery and the brutal treatment of indigenous peoples. She walks through her seven central characters whose stories reclaim that history: Sacagawea (who wasn't actually famous until the 20th century), biracial fur trader Jim Beckwourth, Hispana saloon owner María Gertrudis Barceló (whose Santa Fe establishment inspired the modern Vegas casino), gold miner and newspaperman Ovando Hollister (who believed in human equality and later moved to Salt Lake City to agitate against the Mormons), Northern Cheyenne chief Little Wolf, Canadian immigrant rancher Ella Watson, and Chinese immigrant Polly Bemis. Nelson reveals the most surprising research findings — including how digitized old Colorado newspapers helped her discover stories that had been lost for generations — and discusses how Hollywood created and popularized the caricatures of the West that still dominate pop culture today. Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment. Link in bio or go to https://getsoul.com & enter code TODDCAST for 30% off your first order. Thank you Wildgrain for sponsoring. Visit http://wildgrain.com/TODDCAST and use the code "TODDCAST" at checkout to receive $30 off your first box PLUS free Croissants for life! Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/chuck. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. Timeline: (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements) 00:00 Chuck Todd’s introduction 00:30 Trump was celebrating the ceasefire & joint venture with Iran?? 01:00 This is turning into a massive humiliation for the United States 02:00 Trump’s biggest GOP supporters sounded the alarm on him in 2016 02:45 We have pissed away American prestige and trust around the world 04:00 In May 2016, Lindsey Graham said Trump’s foreign policy is jibberish 05:15 March 2016, Rubio said Trump was the opposite of what America stands for 05:45 Rubio warned about turning over nuclear codes to an erratic individual 06:30 Rubio warned that electing Trump “wouldn’t end well” 07:30 If you’re a hawk or dove on Iran, Donald Trump has failed you* 08:00 In 2016, Ted Cruz warned that Trump could “nuke Denmark” 09:30 In 2016, Nikki Haley also warned about Trump’s “irresponsible behavior” 10:30 Netanyahu tried to drag U.S. into war for years, found a sucker in Trump 11:15 No Trump advisor had the guts to challenge Trump on Iran before war 11:45 Obama’s strategy was “Don’t do stupid shit” - This war is “stupid shit” 12:30 Trump is desperate to get out of war, willing to take any deal 15:00 The Strait is now in the hands of the Iranians 15:30 We don’t know the state of the Ayatollah…who are we negotiating with? 16:30 The Pope spoke against the war, now Trumpworld threatening the Vatican 17:15 There are a lot of Catholics in swing states, picking fight w/pope is idiotic 18:30 Success requires ground troops & Trump doesn’t want to do that 20:00 The damage has been done, it will take time for markets to recover 21:15 The U.S. has become an erratic and unreliable ally 22:15 Trump gravitates toward being sold the best possible outcome 24:00 The word of the United States used to mean something 25:00 Trump has made our relationship with every country worse 26:30 The mistake people make is thinking they can control Trump 27:30 The next president will have to fix or apologize for things Trump did 29:30 Only one country is benefitting from Trump’s presidency…Russia 30:45 Rubio’s quote “this won’t end well” will live in infamy 31:15 Democrats massively overperformed again in recent elections 32:00 Wisconsin election was a shocking blowout for the Democrats 32:30 War is accelerating GOP’s problems heading into midterms 33:15 Republicans that distance from Trump will be glad they did by 2028 34:45 Current political climate portends a massive blue wave 41:45 Megan Kate Nelson joins the Chuck ToddCast 43:15 What got you interested in the topic for The Westerners? 45:30 People still have a very entrenched idea of what the west is 46:45 The portrayal of the west has been improved in pop culture 48:30 Frederick Jackson Turner created the “myth” of the west 50:00 Turner argued the American creed was based on conquest & expansion 51:45 Turner’s narrative became the standard telling of American history 52:45 Western expansion papered over uncomfortable 19th century history 53:30 White Americans could rally around the west & avoid slavery 54:45 How did you get your research on the subjects of The Westerners? 55:30 Sacagawea wasn’t famous until the 20th century 56:15 Lewis & Clark was a core piece of context for the book 57:30 Most unique source material you found that filled in gaps? 1:00:45 Old local newspapers from Colorado were digitized, allowing discovery 1:02:00 Hollywood created and popularized caricatures of the west 1:03:00 Fears and hopes for the new “Little House on the Prairie" reboot? 1:04:45 How much did Laura Ingalls Wilder book create their own mythology? 1:05:45 White settlers received a great deal of help from the federal government 1:06:45 Transcontinental railroad enables the explosion of the cattle industry 1:07:15 Military deployed to protect white settlers, annihilate the indigenous 1:08:30 Expansion wasn’t just an east-west story, it was also a north-south story 1:11:45 Vegas casinos inspired by Maria Barcelo’s Santa Fe saloon 1:14:15 The story of southern migration from Canada 1:16:15 Timeline of the book is most of the 19th century 1:17:00 Role of Chinese workers/immigrants in the story of the west 1:18:45 Chinese workers came on a false promise, were trapped in their labor 1:22:15 Impact of the Chinese Exclusion Act 1:23:45 The story of Ovando Hollister 1:25:45 Hollister believed in the equality of all people. Went from military to newspapers 1:27:30 Hollister moved to Salt Lake City & agitated against the Mormons 1:28:15 Stories of the Native Americans are finally being depicted better 1:29:00 The story of Little Wolf 1:30:45 Little Wolf was a great military strategist and leader for his people 1:33:45 Histories of the west were heavily shaded by original bias 1:34:45 Balancing objectivity with your personal bias when writing history 1:36:15 Connecting individual stories in history to larger movements & moments 1:37:15 How would improve school curriculum to honestly depict the west? 1:41:30 The west was fairly violent before law enforcement became normalized 1:42:30 Next project is the story of a Kiowa and Comanche raid on ranching town 1:45:00 Ask Chuck 1:45:15 What is being missed that will bite us in the future? 1:51:00 What’s the most “Veep” thing you’ve seen in DC? 1:54:30 Why haven’t Democrats tapped into talk radio like Republicans have? 2:00:00 Didn’t mention Washington state in one party drought Top 5 list? 2:03:30 If the war ends, can Republicans run on the economy in 2026? 2:06:30 Forcing ownership changes if sports teams underperform?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week on Hashtag History, we will be discussing the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the very first major US law restricting immigration to the United States of a specific national group. This act made it so that Chinese people could not immigrate to the United States for, initially, ten years. But then, it was renewed, made permanent, and then not officially repealed until…you ready for this? 1943. So, essentially, the Chinese Exclusion Act was in effect for more than six decades! Even when the Chinese Exclusion Repeal Act passed, it still only allowed 105 Chinese immigrants to come to the US each year. So even though the Exclusion Act was repealed in 1943, racist immigration laws were not officially dropped until the 50s and 60s.Not only did the Act make it so that Chinese people could not immigrate to the United States—it also made it so that Chinese residents already in the United States could not become citizens. We'll get into a specific case of this later in this episode but, even Chinese American citizens, when they traveled in and out of the country, were often denied re-entry into the country because they were told that they were not American citizens…even though they were.And again, we'll of course get into more detail about this in this episode, but…do you have any guesses why the US would finally, officially repeal this Act in 1943? The US was in the midst of World War II during 1943 and, well, we needed China as allies against Japan. As we were actively detaining Japanese Americans in detainment centers here on American soil, we dropped part of our racist laws against the Chinese so that we could get them on our side and help us work against our other enemies.Follow Hashtag History on Instagram @hashtaghistory_podcast for all of the pictures mentioned in this episode.Citations for all sources can be located on our website at www.HashtagHistory-Pod.com. You can also check out our website for super cute merch!You can now sponsor a cocktail and get a shout-out on air! Just head to www.buymeacoffee.com/hashtaghistory or head to the Support tab on our website!You can locate us on www.Patreon.com/hashtaghistory where you can donate $1 a month to our Books and Booze Supply. All of your support goes a long ways and we are endlessly grateful! To show our gratitude, all Patreon Supporters receive an automatic 15% OFF all merchandise in our merchandise store, a shoutout on social media, and stickers!THANKS FOR LISTENING!- Rachel and LeahEditor: Alex PerezCopyright: The Hashtag History Podcast

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Annie Lee moderates a panel with African and Asian Americans about the impacts of Birthright Citizenship and the need for Surviving Through Solidarity. Guests include: Lisa Holder, Ming Hsu Chen, Don Tamaki and Michael Harris.   Link to an APEX Episode on Wong Kim Ark from March 20, 2025 Show Transcript [00:00:00] Opening Music: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:40] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee, and tonight we will listen to a recent event, Birthright Citizenship, Surviving Through Solidarity that took place at Chinese for Affirmative Action. Just yesterday, on April 1st, the Supreme Court heard the case around birthright citizenship. This event that you're gonna listen to was highlighting Asian and African American solidarity. As you might know, the cases of dread Scott in 1857 and Wong Kim Ark in 1898 are linked as landmark Supreme Court cases that directly defined and redefined American citizenship specifically about race and birthright. While Dred Scott denied citizenship to people of African descent, Wong Kim Ark's case utilized the subsequent 14th Amendment to solidify birthright citizenship for children born to foreign nationals. I'm just noting that in this conversation, because it was a panel discussion that was live, there was some irregular use of microphones, so sometimes the audio can be a bit spotty. Please bear with us, and if you want to review the transcript, check out our website, kpfa.org, apex Express. And last year we also covered the story of Wong Kim Ark and have included this past show in our show notes. Now let's listen in to moderator Annie Lee, Lawyers Michael Harris and Don Tamaki, Lisa Holder of Equal Justice Society and Ming Chen of UC Law.   [00:02:20] Annie Lee: Everyone. My name is Annie Lee and I am the managing director of policy at Chinese for Affirmative Action. Welcome to CAA's office here in San Francisco, Chinatown. And thank you all for being here today for our discussion: Birthright Citizenship Surviving through Solidarity. CAA and Stop AAPI Hate are proud to co-sponsor this event because it matters to us. CAA has been around since 1969 and we are a community based organization that provides direct services to lingual working class Chinese immigrants. And we also try to improve their lives through policy and advocacy. And in 2020, we co-founded Stop AAPI Hate, which is the national leading aggregator of anti-Asian hate incidents. And we know at Stop AAPI Hate that anti-immigrant policies are anti-Asian hate. So why are we here right now? March marks two anniversaries of two Supreme Court cases. One is Dred Scott and the other is Wong Kim Ark. These are two seminal cases in US history. And next week on April 1st, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the lawsuits challenging Trump's birthright citizenship executive order. So we are here to talk about birthright citizenship because it's an issue that is near and dear to both the Black and Asian communities.   [00:03:46] Without further ado, I am so thrilled to welcome this panel of amazing folks. Let's start with Michael Harris. Michael Harris here on my right is a retired attorney. He, for many, many years led the juvenile justice division at the National Center for Youth Law, an incredible litigator and advocates, and I'm so proud that he's here. He's also on the Equal Justice Society Board. Next to Michael is Don Tamaki. Don is a lawyer at the firm Minami Tamaki, and you might know him because he was part of the legal team that successfully got reparations for Japanese Americans after decades of fighting that injustice. So thank you Don. Don and Lisa, actually, spend time together on the California Reparations Task Force. And so this is Lisa Holder next to Don. Lisa is the president of the Equal Justice Society, which is based in Oakland, an incredible legal organization that has been in many, many fights, including, they filed an amicus brief in support of birthright citizenship, and that brief discusses why this is an issue for the Black community. And last but not least, we have Professor Ming Chen, who is a law professor at UC Law, and she's also the faculty director of the RICE Program, which is Race, Immigration, Citizenship, and Equality. So thank you so much to my panel and let's dive in. So some of you know, but I am a former US history teacher, so I often worry that people don't adequately understand American history and I fear that people don't understand reconstruction and the 14th Amendment. So let's start with the origin of birthright citizenship. What is birthright citizenship and where did it come from and why does its origin matter for understanding what's happening today? So Ming, I'm gonna start with you because you're a law professor and then others chime in. Lisa, Michael, Don. 'cause I think you'll have more to add.   [00:05:45] Ming Chen: Great. Thank you so much Annie, and thank you to CAA for having us all. I'm really excited to be part of this conversation, which I think is going to be really the beginning of a series of conversations over the next few months. So you're starting in the right place, Annie, in asking us what birthright citizenship is, because that is the heart of what the common lawsuit will be about: who gets to be a citizen in the United States. And that's actually why I named my organization RICE. I think the emphasis is on the “C” [citizenship], because I do think it is something that brings together immigrant communities, as well as all of the different communities within the United States that have been expanding, over time. Getting to the, legal text I, I think it's important to remember first that birthright citizenship is bigger than the United States. Worldwide there are at least two ways of becoming a citizen. One is by birthright and the other is by naturalized citizenship. So we're talking about the birthright half. And the United States is not alone. It's among countries mostly in the Western hemisphere that have chosen to focus on the “jus soli” version of birthright citizenship, which is “soli” is soil. So it's birth by touching US soil. And the idea behind that theory was always meant to be an egalitarian one. It's one that is about the idea that anyone can become a citizen, right? In contrast to the older system that Europe and other countries use, “jus sanguinis,” which is to say that citizenship could only be inherited by blood and heritage. Right? So I think right from the very beginning, it tells us what the text and the history of our 14th amendment citizenship clause intended to accomplish, which was to have an egalitarian spirit, a fresh start, and a continual renewal of what it means to be an American.   [00:07:33] Lisa Holder: Just sort of continuing on the path that Ming just opened up for us, birthright citizenship is very much connected to the African American experience. Particularly because the genesis of that right, really was a reversal of the construct and the regime of the enslavement era, right? Everyone's aware that during that era, descendants of Africa were not considered humans, much less citizens. And the legal cases that were brought where people try to have their citizenship, and their humanity acknowledged, the courts universally said, no, you are not citizens and Black people have no rights that white people need to respect. Right. And so that was the case, law of the land until, after the Civil War, when we had the 13th, 14th, and 15th, amendments were lifted up and embedded into our laws. You also had the Civil Rights Act of 1866 where that body of law was overturned and enshrined into our constitution was a new law that said that freed people are citizens and they do have rights that everyone needs to respect and rights to equality. You know, we know that there have been problems executing that [laughs] but at least enshrined in our laws and enshrined in our constitution that is where the birthright citizenship, constitutional law came from. It came out of that experience.    [00:09:21] Michael Harris: I just want to add a couple things to that. I mean, it's very distinguished scholars, they're hitting it really hard. Two things, universality and so I wanna talk about that first. I got one more coming forward. It's universal. Birthright citizenship is universal. And what I mean by that is everybody gets to be a citizen who's born here in the United States. Period. It's universal, applies to everybody. It doesn't matter if you're Black or white or Asian, none of that matters. That's really important. The other thing is it's that this criteria is not something that's subjective, nobody gets to decide. It's automatic. If you're born here, you automatically have citizenship. Those two things being automatic and being universal I think are really important. And this, we'll talk about this more as we go through the conversation, but those two things are what makes birthright citizenship so powerful and why they keep coming to try and take it down because it's universal so everybody gets it and it's automatic. Nobody can take it away. So let's, we'll I'll just leave it there for now, but we'll come back to that.   [00:10:33] Annie Lee: Don, this one's for you. So the 14th Amendment passes in 1868. Like Lisa said, it's to reverse Dred Scott, where the Justice Taney wrote that Black people had no rights, which the white man was bound to respect. And so they had to repudiate that through the 14th amendments, they have universal and automatic birthright citizenship with very, very few exceptions for like diplomats kids. Okay, that's like so, so narrow. So 14th Amendment passes in 1868, but it takes another 30 years for a Chinese American man named Wong Kim Ark to establish that birthright citizenship actually applied to the children of immigrants. So Don, can you tell us Wong Kim Ark's story, who was he, what happened to him and why did the federal rural government make him this test case?   [00:11:22] Don Tamaki: Just a couple words about context. I mean, one of the remarkable things about the case is it occurred during especially California's ultra racist, ultra virulent racist period. It's a contradiction in that regard. So just taking you back to the origins of where this racial pathology comes from, of course we focus, tend to focus on Asian American history, but actually you have to begin with Black history and indigenous history in the country. So in 1619, the first enslaved people were brought to America. And you know, 12 million people were kidnapped off the west coast of Africa. 2 million died during the middle passage. 400,000 were dropped off in America, and the million other millions ended up in the Caribbean, in the Brazil in Haiti, Jamaica, et cetera. And from there, slavery in America continued for 246 years. Two and a half centuries. Civil war happened in 1865. It concluded, and for another 100 years, Jim Crow exclusion infected America. And San Francisco, by the way, was heavily Jim Crow until the 1960s and into the 1970s. The vestiges of that exclusion and discrimination directly are rooted in the Black American experience.   [00:12:52] Michael Harris: And it's still present here today. That's why we have a Chinatown. That's why we have a Japantown in San Francisco because of what Don just did.    [00:13:00] Don Tamaki: Redlining and racial covenants.    [00:13:02] Michael Harris: That's right.    [00:13:03] Don Tamaki: Exclusions, redevelopment, and so on. So people think of California as being like a enlightened state. Well, California did enter the union in 1850 before the Civil War. 1849 enslavers came to California and they brought their human property with them. So there were probably at least 1500 enslaved people in California. 1865 Civil War ended, but Democrats in 1868 rose to power saying they would vote against any law that would have any equality between , Black Californians, indigenous people, and Chinese folks. And beginning toward late 1800s, that's when the bulk of Asian American immigration began. First Chinese American coming during the gold rush, and then Japanese Americans have followed and so on. And so, Jim Crow seeped into all that. Chinese Exclusion Act was passed in 1882. California was known as a strong Klan state by the end of the 1800s with strong Ku Klux Klan chapters in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Oakland, Riverside, San Jose, Anaheim and so on. And so this was a toxic stew that Chinese immigrated into and other groups too. So unsurprisingly, tons of anti-Asian legislation policies, exclusion, follow. So Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco in 1873 to Chinese parents who lived and operated a business here. His parents continued to reside and remain in the United States until 1890, and then they departed for China. Probably no doubt because of the inhospitable conditions here. And racial terror was part of that, including the race riots here in Chinatown. And now that I mention it between 1865 to 1935, 352 people were lynched in California. Eight of those were Black Californians, but the rest were indigenous, Chinese, and persons of Mexican descent.   [00:15:18] So that was the environment. Wong Kim Ark continued to live in California into his twenties, reportedly working as a cook in San Francisco. And at the age of 21 he actually made two trips to China. He made a trip to China when he was 17 to visit his parents. Stayed there a year, came back without incident worked, came back here, worked till he was 21, then went back to China to visit his parents at that point. And when he attempted to reenter the United States, he was denied entry and detained with a threat of deportation upon the sole ground that he was not a citizen of the United States. Of course he was born here. So the issue was you know, birthright citizenship was the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment did it apply to Wong Kim Ark. And the interesting thing is about the case is that the court ruled in his favor. All persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. And those words are now, today becomes crucial. And people, I think we on the panel will talk about the implications of that language subject to the jurisdiction thereof. And it established this principle that basically was reaffirmed repeatedly throughout our history for this 100 year plus period. To get to your last question, why did the court do this? I think scholars smarter than me can explain this, but I'll give you some clues. The court ruled in Wong Kim Ark's favor despite the virulent context of the era, because that's what the plain and expansive language of the 14th Amendment says.   [00:17:02] All persons didn't say formally enslaved, didn't say Black Americans. It said all persons. That's what the plain expensive language of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 says: all persons and as Lisa referred to. And the congressional record of the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1862, where legislators are debating these issues they clearly understood, and the record shows that if you include this expansive language, it will apply to groups like Chinese and Asians. And so with that understood it was adopted and ratified in 1868, 14th Amendment, and it was reaffirmed in other legislation like the Immigration Act of 1940. They just assumed that if you're born in this country, you're an American citizen. It was applied throughout the turbulent history involving my community, Japanese Americans. As you recall, 1942, 125,000 people were rounded up and put in concentration camps and the first generation were ineligible to become citizens. They were given identity cards marking them as enemy aliens. 2000 people died in those camps, but people were born in those camps. And the government, despite the fact that we were at war with Japan, understood that if you're born in this country. And even if your parents were quote, “enemy aliens,” you're gonna be classified as American citizens. And maybe lastly, the court ruled in favor of Wong Kim Ark because the 14th Amendment was trying to repair the harm done by Dred Scott v. Sandford, which was to provide human beings who've been here for two and a half centuries, the right to become an American citizen with all the benefits that go with that, like voting for instance. And recognizing that if you don't have those rights, you don't have anything, you are you, you're nothing. And for Japanese Americans, for instance, who are born in those camps, can you imagine if they didn't have birthright citizenship? They're not part of Japan. They're not part of America. Where are they? They're stateless. They have no home. They have no rights. And so it would create another underclass of people who have no rights for, and for which the 14th Amendment was trying to remedy which was you know, to provide a pathway. And so I guess you could say that's why, that's the incongruity of why Wong Kim Ark came out that way. In my opinion.   [00:19:59] Ming Chen: Maybe what I could add to the conversation is not just sort of who is included but who is not included. Because I think that's actually a much more small and specific group than the current dialogue would have you believe. So in the very language of the 14th Amendment, this idea of subject to the jurisdiction thereof. It refers to three exceptions and only three exceptions. One is for Native Americans, and that is because as of 1924 there wasn't a need to grant citizenship through the 14th Amendment because there were other provisions to grant citizenship to Native Americans. The second exception is for those who are children of diplomats. And the reason for that is because they have citizenship in their home country and their parents are only on a temporary post to the United States with the understanding that they're here in the United States in service to their home country. And I think that actually points to the limited meaning of the third exception, which is the one that I have to say, I have a really hard time understanding is part of the debate now. Because I think up until now, you know, this debate renews itself a couple times every year. Every time there's a new census, every time there's redistricting on all of the anniversaries, and usually the fight is about subject to the jurisdiction thereof. But the third exception, which has come into the dialogue, is about the language of accepting children of invading armies. And that is one that I have not thought we needed to argue about. It really becomes a touch point as Don mentions this history with internment and the children of a group of enemy aliens. I think that gives it a whole new historical read.   [00:21:48] But one of the reasons that this argument, I guess I should first explain the argument because it may not be obvious to you as it was not obvious to me the first time I heard it, which was about 18 months ago. And so the argument is that the children of invading armies referring mostly to the children of immigrants coming across the US Mexico border should not be considered birthright citizens. So that's kind of what the public debate, what the insinuation is behind some of the current effort to chip away at Wong Kim Ark through the executive order. There have been many efforts to chip away through legislation. I don't know how frequently it's been attempted through constitutional amendment, which is what it would actually require. That's a very, very high bar that's almost never met. I think most people haven't really made a serious, serious effort there. But what I think is kind of stunning to me in the sort of momentum behind the current moment is that Judge Ho who himself is a birthright citizen. Took up this language and this argument about the children of invading armies after previously saying that he agreed with this interpretation that children of undocumented immigrants, children of temporary visas all of these different legal statuses in addition to all of these racial groups, would immediately be citizens. And the argument he tried to make is that it wouldn't include the group at the border because historically it wouldn't have included enemy aliens or invading aliens either. And I think that what is so surprising to me is that a) that there is meant to be this historical analog between what would've been happening at the time of the Civil War and what is happening now at the US Mexico border. We are not having a civil war. We are not in active military conflict at the US Mexico border. I'll set aside other US military conflicts and how we wanna use that terminology. But I think that's really important because I, I feel like it's almost a trick, you know, to turn what is a media frame that's meant to be like clickbait, right? The idea that there is an invasion at the border, right. That we're being flooded with people who don't belong here. And to try to turn that into a legal argument saying this is actually an invading army and that takes this group outside of the 14th Amendment.    [00:24:19] Michael Harris: That's, I was gonna ask you a follow up question because we haven't been invaded that many times by armies I mean, maybe the War for Independence when the British sent ships over and took over Boston for a while. I could see how if they had kids, I mean, that's a stretch, that might apply to this. But I think the rhetorical device, they're touching on where they speak of people who come into the United States without proper documentation as an invading army or an invading whatever. They use that terminology quite often. Is that enough to bootstrap into this exception?    [00:24:59] Ming Chen: I, not to me, [audience and panel laughter] I think not to serious legal scholars and jurists. I mean, and you know, I'm not trying to be inflammatory by saying that. I think there are a lot of people who are pretty far away from me on a legal and political spectrum who would also say that this argument is pretty unprecedented. To try to say that that would be enough to bootstrap it into the actual text of the constitution or the spirit of Wong Kim Ark. So I think it's going really, really far. And I think too far, and I hope that if that becomes a line of discussion during the oral argument, that it would be cut off pretty quickly.   [00:25:38] Annie Lee: Well, let me punt it to Lisa then. If it's pretty clear based on the text, based on the legislative history, based on, just everything in the last 125 years that has said very clearly that birthright citizenship is universal and automatic. Why is Trump doing this? Like, what is being attempted legally, but also politically? And Lisa, you take a stab at this first and then others can chime in.    [00:26:04] Lisa Holder: Yeah. You know, why is Trump doing this? [audience and panel laughter] There's many layers, you know? And it, this is a strategic play and you have to sort of think about this in a layered way. Like there's a long term strategic play. There's a short term strategic play, there's a procedural strategic play, but that sort of bootstraps and brings in a much more moral and narrative rhetorical play. Procedural play. The short term strategic play has a lot to do with the midterm elections. Right, right. And also limiting people of color's ability to pick people who look like them as their representatives. Right. Because all of a sudden you're not only putting into question people's citizenship based on birth and turning this into a lineage thing where you have to bring me proof that your parents or their parents were born here or something like that, or were naturalized. So you're starting to put into question in a practical measure, people's access to the franchise, people's access to the voting booth. Right. And you're also starting to create a chain effect. So people are actually afraid to go to the voting booth. Right. And then you couple that with moving the migration of ICE. Now ICE is in the airports. Guaranteed by November, ICE will be in the voting booth, right? So you create this chilling effect. And then in terms of having representation that looks like you having people of color represent you in the US House of Representatives, your state representative. When you put birthright into question in this way, you're also gonna be able to challenge people who are running for office, people of color, running for office and say, well, you can't really run because you need to prove. And that is a rhetorical issue that we have seen being used already with both Harris and Obama, you know, because they were brown, Black people. Their birthright citizenship was, they were manipulating that rhetoric and that narrative.   [00:28:25] So this is not coming out of the outta left field. It's iterative and it's a it's rhetoric that has been, you know, percolating up for a long time. This is just a culminating moment. The long term strategy is really about white supremacy. We know that, you know, all of the social science shows that in 20 years this, the country will be a majority minority country, right? And people of color will have a huge amount of power in terms of, you know, in terms of the vote, right? Because of that, switch to majority minority and white people will be in the minority. And so, this is about, from a long term perspective, ensuring that certain people maintain their power as an electoral block. Right? So that's sort of like a long term electoral politics play. And then finally, the procedural issues are what's outstanding, okay? As Ming mentioned, if you are going to use procedure to overturn a constitutional amendment that is a, an astronomical feat to accomplish, right? Because you need two thirds of all of the representatives in Congress, and then on top of that, you need 75% of the states to ratify that process. So overturning a constitutional amendment is virtually impossible. But what we have here is trying to do the same thing. One person trying to do the same thing using the powers of the executive office. It is unprecedented. It is absurd. It has no legal viability, but it is a political moment where this man sees an opportunity because of the bias that we see in the judicial branch, in the court system. And that is being leveraged for the executive to to do something that is unprecedented and that is actually procedurally impossible, right? For one person by just signing a document all of a sudden disenfranchising 13 million people. That is not the democratic process. It's quite the opposite.   [00:30:38] Michael Harris: I just wanted to add to that. The Senate and the House of Representatives are both very narrowly controlled by the Republicans, and so it's really important to Trump to maintain that control. He'll only be able to continue doing these outrageous things by virtue of getting a rubber stamp from Congress. And so either house going the other way would put a stop sign in front of him and make it much more difficult for him to do all those things. All this money he's spending he would not be able to do that if Congress was actually active in doing it's job. Cause under the Constitution, spending is supposed to be controlled by the Congress, not by the Executive. So everything's upside down, but that's only working because Congress is allowing him to do that and not trying to stop him. If the Democrats are able to take over the Senate or the House where there's only a three or four seat margin right now that would make it much, much, much harder for him to pull these things off. And so anything he can do to get an advantage in that way I think is also part of what they're trying to do and trying to pull off.   [00:31:48] Ming Chen: One other thought, and you know, I'm trying very hard to not be professorly in the sense of using jargon or highfalutin terms, but I'm just curious, has anyone in this room heard the term perpetual foreigner before? A few of you have, I mean, I think it's really pertinent here. The first time I heard of this idea was when I started to learn from other Asian American law professors when I was still in college. I think that idea was that for certain groups of people, including Asian Americans, it doesn't matter whether you are actually a citizen by law or how many generations you've lived in the United States, right? So I'm a birthright citizen like Wong Kim Ark, but I think the first time I heard about it was, you know, this idea of Asian Americans not being able to be Americans socially in terms of belonging regardless of whether they are themselves, the child of citizens or immigrants and if they're the sixth generation children, right. I remember taking a Chinatown tour with David and is that where we are about six generations out for a lot of the descendants. So even if you were in the sixth generation that if you look Asian, that you will still be seen as being foreign. And so I think that idea has animated a lot of the work that I do. Like why it is that a lot of the work I do on race centers Asian Americans and then a lot of the work I do on immigrants centers, the naturalization process.   [00:33:16] But I think it's also important to recognize the breadth of that idea. Again, this idea of trying to blur the line between actuality, like what is real and what sounds like a fancy argument. Right. And I think what Lisa said, you know, her brief reference to the challenges against Barack Obama and Kamala Harris when they were running for a highest offices. You know, I think again, there's not, it's not a coincidence. I mean, to me that's the perpetual foreigner at work again. Because it's the idea that not only that Black people cannot possibly be the leader of this country, right? Sort of the, the figurehead of this country, but that for Barack Obama, the child of one international student on a lawful, probably f visa at the time, or that for Kamala Harris, the child of two lawful immigrants, that they cannot be birthright citizens that would be eligible for president. So there's a lot of commonality in that argument. And I think, you know, people forget, I think people assume that if you're talking about groups who are not Asian right, or who are not Latinx, that we're not talking about foreignness, we're only talking about race. And certainly we are talking about race, but we're not talking about it exclusively.   [00:34:33] Michael Harris: And then in addition to all of that is just the straight up racism of it. And that's supported by this notion of white supremacy. And what I mean when I say that, Lisa has touched on this already, is that there is a hierarchy of racial groups. And we're not all created equal. There's a hierarchy and the top group is, you already know, I don't have to say it, is the whites [laughter], and then below that are the other people like us who look different. And the reason there's, they're able to put these groups out there and get people to buy into that belief system is because we look different. And so this is why the perpetual thing is perpetual it's because we still look different. And that is a key part of the white supremacy. They still want to buy into this notion that white people are superior. And the only way they can make that work is by saying that people who look different are inferior.   [00:35:34] Annie Lee: I love this discussion because it's so real. And what you are saying essentially is you're talking about belonging and you're talking about power. Like who gets to belong in America? And then that is necessarily connected with who has power in America, who deserves to have power in America. But I know that we all belong in America and that we have power. So I wanna shift this conversation now to what can we do? And so beyond the courts everybody tune in next week. But beyond the courts, what is the role of community organizing, state and local policy advocacy? Public education in defending birthright citizenship and fighting against the attack on birthright citizenship is one sliver of everything that he has done. So many executive orders that came out on day one. So how, how do we, as everyday people fight white supremacy? What can we do when they are redistricting and trying to take away our franchise right before the midterm elections? What do we do when they're using courts that they've already packed with their federal society judges? And so what, what can an average regular person do? And Don I'm gonna go to you first.    [00:36:47] Don Tamaki: Let me say something in a very far less intellectual way than my colleagues here. This is a very old playbook. The playbook of demagoguery is very old. He said the old is humanity. And there are three elements to that playbook. One, appeal to prejudice, however, that is, race, skin, color, religion, whatever. Secondly, fear monger and scapegoat. And thirdly trafficking, conspiracy theories, fake news, false information, erasure of history. That's how you control the culture. And it worked in 1619. It worked in 1882. It worked in Germany in 1933. And it works today, you know, 2016, 2020. You know, when Chinese were blamed as spreaders of the Chinese virus. Asian Americans, when Mexicans were characterized as drug dealers and rapists when Jews and immigrants were portrayed as replacing good white people. This dehumanizing [of] people where one more Black man killed during an encounter with law enforcement barely evokes a shrug because it is so normal. It is so normal, folks, and so it works. And so, you have the candidate Trump running for office and say to a national audience that, to the people of Springfield, Ohio, that Haitian immigrants are eating your dogs and cats and getting away with it. Or the images of the Obamas transposed on cartoon apes. And this is really Jim Crow stuff. This is Antebellum stuff. And it's a recycling of the same playbook. And so the first part of organizing is being aware of what's going on. This is not a new thing. Okay, it's just a racial pathology that churns in one form or another, and it has an origin. It predates us. And so I, I think part of that is educating ourselves how everything is interconnected.   [00:38:58] And since we're talking about Black Asian solidarity, I'll just say a couple things. I mean, the civil rights movement had three triumphs that we all should remember. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of '65 began the dismantling of Jim Crow, which I, as I said, was a hundred year phenomenon following the end of the Civil War and the Immigration of Act of 1965. The third act. It ended as, you know, racist quotas. It prioritized family ties and skills and it greatly increased Asian immigration. As a result, the majority of AAPIs today are post 1965 Americans whose very presence here was made possible by the Black Civil Rights Movement. How many of us know that, you know? I mean, everybody focuses not everybody, but people tend to focus on their own peculiar predicament as if it's unique to our own situation. And in fact, it's all, quite connected. So I think part of this organizing process is realizing, you know, it's Martin Luther King, the oft quoted statement where he says we may have come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now. And especially in connection with what's happening and, and you're seeing it in different parts of the country where sure, immigrants are being targeted in Minneapolis, but then you have thousands of Minneapolitans that, you know, ordinary people, business folks, teachers, laborers, protesting in Sub-Zero weather against what, what happened? And, and yeah. You know what, can we do protest work? I hope everybody's out there on March 28th, you know, this Saturday on the No Kings March.    [00:40:51] Michael Harris: Not just protesting, running them out of town.    [00:40:55] Don Tamaki: Well, [audience and panel laughter] Gregory Bovino, Gregory Bovino, who was the leading charge? Gone. Kristi Noem. Gone.    [00:41:03] Michael Harris: Yes, right.    [00:41:05] Don Tamaki: 2000 ICE agents in Minneapolis reduced to much smaller numbers. That's right. Their plans then launching Ohio trashed. You know, so that's why you, so boycotts, boycotts work. Ask Elon Musk. Ask Target. Local elections, Michael mentioned the midterm elections. It is if we don't, if Democrats don't get back the House, the country's cooked. So, I mean, everybody should be involved one way or the other in that. Raising money, you know, we are part of a, a fundraising group called CAPA21, and there are other groups out there, but those are, those things are crucial to funnel money toward swing elections and critical races. The education part I think is essential. If you consider the velocity change in terms of the civil rights movement, Japanese American redress and reparations was a 20 year movement. And it was full of education of the public. Civil rights movement, same thing. The philosophy of change on marriage equality or LGBTQ rights and all those things happened because they became normal. They were, they started out as ideas that people thought were preposterous. You know, that'll never change.    [00:42:26] Michael Harris: Right.    [00:42:26] Don Tamaki: And Jim Crow will never end. And San Francisco can segregate Asian Americans within Japantown and Chinatown. It, it will never change. But that idea of change, which were thought preposterous happens. But it requires civic engagement. So just examples.   [00:42:46] Michael Harris: I want to amplify two things that Don said. One is there will be a march this Saturday a No Kings March, and it's really, really important for people to show up for that march. ‘Cause the one thing that's devastating to a government is to have its people out there visible on the streets saying what the government is doing is wrong. Because you can spin certain things, you can lie about certain things, but bodies in the streets you can't lie about. It's there and it's real. So that's one thing that's really important, really. But I would encourage all of you if you can, if you are able, please join us and come out on Saturday. The other thing I want to add to the Don's excellent list is there's a few groups in the Bay Area and in San Francisco that does postcards. And their strategy is they identify particular jurisdictions where it's a very close race and it'll be pivotal if a Democrat can win over a Republican, say in a House or maybe even like the Texas Senator race. That one's probably gonna be very close too. And they send postcards to people encouraging them to vote. Don't sit it out. And those extra votes can be the difference between winning and losing. And that might flip the House might flip the Senate. So those are some other additional items.    [00:44:11] Ming Chen: I think at a much more basic level, it's just like telling, telling your story, telling the story of America. Because, you know, when we talk about all these rhetorical tricks, I mean, I think what it means is that that narrative is gaining a lot of power. And so I think you have to reclaim the narrative, right? You have to tell the counter story which happens to be the real story of what's happening. This is something that I actually haven't talked about this publicly, but my daughter she's like on the brink of being 13, not yet a teenager. It made me really sad that she came back from her well-funded, pretty liberal public school about a month ago crying because she said that in her Mandarin Chinese class, there was a child who was saying that Asian people eat dogs. And then writing swastikas on the chalkboard and singing Nazi songs making fun of the women in the room, I guess they're girls in the room saying that they're all lesbian without knowing anything about them. And it just made me really profoundly sad because I'd like to think that a lot of ignorant narrative is because people don't know better, right? I mean, as an educator, I hope that education will simply solve it. And it made me really sad to hear that again. You know, I'm, I'm on the brink of Berkeley. I basically live in Berkeley, right? So one of the most densely populated PhD overeducated people in America. And to be three generations in and to still have this story being told in the classrooms was really distressing to me. And even more distressing that it isn't just the like Chinese people that eat dogs as being a stereotype from those who are not educated, but it's something she might have heard on TV from the highest offices in the land, right? Something she might've heard the vice president say, for example. And so I just think it's so important and doesn't take education, doesn't take a law degree, right? To be able to tell that story. And so I was really, really proud that my daughter you know, did file a complaint with the principal that she came home and told us about it. And you know, her two parents who are civil rights and immigration lawyers, [laughter] but also that she's been like talking to her classmates right, about the fact that that's not true. That's not right. She's been comforting the other kids in the classroom who don't share the same background that she does. And I feel like that kind of work is just as important.    [00:46:45] Michael Harris: I want to add something to that. We have to take note of the fact that a lot of these types of comments really vile, racist things and not just about Asians, it's also some of the things about Black people, young people are saying. Part of it is because it's very easy to say things like that online because you can do it anonymously and not have to, you know, stand up and back up your comments, so to speak. And another part of it is our culture. We gotta be real about this. When I was growing up, I'm sure you were told this too, as the country became more educated and got more exposed to people of color and more people got higher education, all this crazy stereotypical racist stuff would go away because people would know better. That's what they told me the whole time I was growing up and now we know that's not true [audience laughter] because the reverse is happening. It's growing because some people are making money by putting stuff like that online and selling t-shirts and hats and stuff like that. Or starting, you know, whatever they start. There's this guy, Alex Jones, who made millions of dollars doing that kind of stuff. So some people are making money off of it. Other people are just buying into that ideological tip and are using that to gain power and influence and clicks. So we just have to be aware that this is a current going on in our society right now. And it's happening and it's growing and we, we need to be aware of it and start thinking about ways how we can put it to rest. Cause it's, it's happening.    [00:48:30] Annie Lee: Thank you so much. I do wanna give our audience some time to ask any questions that you all might have. So if you have a burning question to ask our illustrious panel now is your opportunity.   [00:48:45] Audience member: I was wondering how does this with, with the rhetoric of, of Washington pushing for IDs for voting how will that impact on people's presence at the voting booths and validating their ability to vote?   [00:49:04] Michael Harris: I think what you're referring to is the Safeguard [SAVE America] Act is now in Congress, and if it's passed and signed by the president, then it'll become law. And what it will require is anyone who wants to vote will have to have a photo ID. And even if you registered, you have to prove you're a citizen. So those two steps are, I think, designed to suppress the vote of people of color. I mean, I think it's very straightforward. This has been what Republicans have been trying to do for ever since the case that Don just mentioned passed and they were able to start doing this stuff. And I agree. It goes back to the notion that in 20 years, America's going to be a majority minority country. There's gonna be more people of color than white people. And I think that I'm just gonna come out and say that freaks them out. It really freaks 'em out. I think a lot of them have lived their whole lifetime where only white people were in charge, running stuff, and they can envision a future not too far off where that might not be the case anymore. And that's scary. It shouldn't be. I mean, we're all the same. It's all gonna be, you know, and there's Black Republicans and Black Democrats and there's Asian Republican. I don't know why they're so freaked out about it, but but they are freaked out about it. And a lot of this is to suppress the vote so that they can continue to stay in power and will not have to give up the power that they would lose otherwise.   [00:50:35] Lisa Holder: Yeah, I mean, it's always been about limiting the franchise, right? And since the time that it expanded beyond white males with property, there's been a battle to keep it as limited as possible. You know? And when you think about what happened after the Civil War, after the 13th, 14th, and particularly the 15th Amendment were passed and African Americans were allowed to vote, you had a 100 year backlash. Where 10,000 African Americans were murdered and lynched. Most of those were people who were trying to mobilize their communities to enter into the franchise and exercise the right to vote. That's the retrenchment that we're seeing being reiterated right now. Right. And we know that during that period, there were all kinds of hoops that, for instance, Black people had to jump through because of those Black Codes where you had to, for instance, prove that you can read this particular statement. Right. Or, you know, just like all kinds of random hoops that you had to jump through. And so when we see these barriers, these gatekeepers, like, oh, you have to have an ID. If this birthright citizenship goes through, no, no, no you can't bring in your birth certificate. You know, we need some proof of your parent, of your lineage. Right. And it's really is combined with that narrative and that rhetorical aspect, that Ming was articulating because although in fact we are America. America looks like us, Americans look like us. The alternative narrative where white predominance is the point is always going to be pushed where no, no, no, we are different. We are not normal and we are not America. And so that's, that's the narrative piece that all of this leads to. And that's why this story of storytelling that Ming talked about is so important. And also it is so important to just constantly push back to resist, to vote. To run for office when you look like an American.   [00:52:45] Audience member: My question is, if the executive order passes, what can we do to resist? Because one of the things is it will also disenfranchise women because it's about proving your identity that matches your birth certificate. Right. And there are really so many people that will not have their names to match their identities. And so what can people do to, to, to counter if that should happen?   [00:53:11] Don Tamaki: The legislative answer? Well, there'll be court challenges, no doubt    [00:53:15] Audience member: but, but before, let's say the midterm election.   [00:53:18] Michael Harris: Call your representative, fax 'em, email 'em, get your friends to do that, because it's pending in Congress right now.   [00:53:25] Don Tamaki: But elections have consequences is the point. And it people who says, well my vote doesn't count, doesn't matter. Everybody, both parties the same. Elections have consequences. I, I guess the only other thing to remember, I keep, you know, repeating this, the solidarity and connectedness bears repeating because the story keeps recycling. It's very recycled story about voter suppression. You know, the Civil War ended in 1865, 12 years of reconstruction. Lincoln is assassinated shortly after during the beginning of reconstruction and thereafter, you know, a deal was struck in the contested election of 1876. Federal troops are withdrawn from the south and then the voter suppression comes in literacy tests, poll taxes.   [00:54:19] Annie Lee: Mm-hmm. Grandfather clauses.   [00:54:21] Don Tamaki: Yeah. I mean in Virginia. During reconstruction 140,000 formerly enslaved people registered to vote after the collapse of reconstruction it was reduced to 21,000. California had you know, poll taxes. Other states had literacy tests and whatever, and it's now repeating because folks don't like the results of an election. The answer is not to, you know, broaden your net and appeal to upfront (?) policy. The answer is to suppress voting, stop people from voting. And so again, it's a matter of awareness I think we have to realize the game plan. And it makes it so important about who is voted into the dials and levers of the controls that run the country. So that's critical.    [00:55:13] Ming Chen: I can jump onto that. go vote. But I think it's also, you know, it's early enough to say, get your documents in order. Right? Go and be ready to vote in a way that won't draw question, right? So you don't have to wait for the lawsuit. And I will say for that, as someone who spends most of my days working with 20 something year olds who move all over the country, a lot of it is about sort of get your ducks in order, right? So if you don't have a driver's license with the current address that matches your name, you can fix that now. So many people who don't have a normal ID because they never learn how to drive, right? So make sure you go get that document. You mentioned marriage, Anna, and I remember I moved to New York at the same time that I got married and trying to get my name on the document when I was it, you know, it's like this endless loop, right? Because you're getting a new ID because of your address. If you don't have that, you can't get your social security card, if you don't have that you can't validate the marriage certificate, right? There's just this endless loop. And you have to get all of that in order, right? So I think maybe there needs to be two parts to our voter mobilization this year, right? It's get yourself ready, sort of like arm up and then vote so that your vote will actually end up counting.    [00:56:33] Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – 4.2.26 – Surviving Through Solidarity. appeared first on KPFA.

What happens when a California family walks into Mississippi and walks out forever changed?Filmmaker and music executive, Larissa Lam, director of the documentary Far East Deep South, joins me to share how a simple trip to visit a family grave in the Mississippi Delta unraveled a mystery decades in the making and revealed a hidden chapter of American history most of us never learned in school. Together, we trace how her father-in-law's search for the father he believed had abandoned him led to an extraordinary discovery about Chinese immigrants in the Jim Crow South, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and one remarkable artifact that unlocked everything. If you've ever wondered how a single genealogy discovery can heal a wound that's been carried across generations, this conversation is for you.Learn more about Larissa's film here:  https://fareastdeepsouth.com/〰️

The rules about who could and could not come and live in the United States have changed many times over the last 250 years, but exactly when restrictions were first put on immigration might surprise you. Today, walking us through the myriad qualitative and quantitative systems surrounding immigration policy is Muzaffar Chishti, Senior Fellow and Director of the Migration Policy Institute. Here are some links to our episodes on: The Chinese Exclusion Act, ICE, and Becoming a US Citizen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Though Wisconsin hasn't been faced with the major ICE raids as we've seen in LA, Chicago, and Minneapolis, there is growing concern that ICE will arrive in Wisconsin. Governor Evers said this week that the state is preparing for this inevitability. To talk about ICE raids and the larger context of anti-immigrant sentiment in the US, host Allen Ruff is joined by Armando Ibarra.  Ibarra works with Voces de la Frontera, an organization with deep roots in Wisconsin. Founded in 1994, the organization responded to the displacement of people from NAFTA. Over the years Voces has helped more than 16,500 families create “family disruption plans” and has held “know your rights” sessions for more than 30,000 people across Wisconsin. Voces de la Frontera will be holding its annual assembly this weekend. Ibarra also discusses the US as a land of immigrants in a land of anti-immigrants, from colonization,  Westward expansion, and the Chinese Exclusion Act, to the present. Ibarra says that the US is no longer pretending not to be an empire, as we've seen with the Trump  administration's aggression in Latin America.  They also discuss the Supreme Court ruling that legitimizes racial profiling, the reframing of protest as “domestic terrorism,” the rise of state-sanctioned violence against immigrants, and the 287(g) programs that deputize local law enforcement to act as immigration agents. Voces organizes a 24-7 emergency ICE hotline at 1-800-427-0213. Armando Ibarra is a Vilas Distinguished Achievement Professor in the School for Workers. He's the co-author of the award winning book, The Latino Question: Politics, Labouring Classes and the Next Left. Featured image of the mural “Labor Solidarity has no Borders” (1992) by Mike Alewitz via Wikimedia Commons (CC BY-SA 4.0). Did you enjoy this story? Your funding makes great, local journalism like this possible. Donate hereThe post A Land of Immigrants or a Land of Anti-Immigrants? appeared first on WORT-FM 89.9.

Discover The Strength of Water memoir, a powerful story of Chinese reverse immigration. Learn how one woman survived moving from 1920s Detroit to a rural Chinese village.Episode Resources:Get your copy of "The Strength of Water" by Karin K. JensenConnect with Karin K. JensenIn this incredible interview, author Karin K. Jensen shares the astonishing true story behind The Strength of Water memoir, a book that details her mother's unbelievable journey of perseverance. Born in America, her mother Helen was taken to a remote Chinese peasant village in the 1930s at just 11 years old. After surviving war, disease, and near-starvation, she fought her way back to the United States alone as a teenager. How does a person endure such immense hardship and not only survive, but build a life of strength and independence? This episode uncovers a story of resilience you won't soon forget.Join us as we explore the profound narrative of this unique memoir about a Chinese mother, as told by her daughter and author, Karin K. Jensen. We delve into the complex history that shaped this family's destiny, starting with the paper sons and daughters history that allowed her grandfather to immigrate to the U.S. despite the Chinese Exclusion Act. Karin paints a vivid picture of her mother's early life in a 1920s Detroit Chinese laundry, a world that was abruptly torn away. The conversation details the extreme culture shock Helen experienced in the reverse immigration story, moving from a modern American city to a Cantonese village with no electricity or modern medicine. We discuss the family dynamics with her new stepmother, the harrowing experience of contracting malaria and malnutrition, and being left for dead on a "death board." Throughout the discussion of The Strength of Water memoir, Karin highlights the unwavering spirit that drove her mother to survive. The story follows Helen's return to America, her work as a teen domestic in California, the pain of a difficult first marriage to a man with a gambling addiction, and her ultimate triumph in achieving financial independence and finding true partnership. This is more than just a Chinese reverse immigration story; it's a testament to the power of a mother's dream for a better life and the strength that can be found in the face of impossible odds.About Our Guest:Karin K. Jensen is the author of "The Strength of Water," a powerful memoir written in the voice of her mother, Helen. By meticulously interviewing her mother, aunts, uncle, and other family members, Karin reconstructed a lost piece of Chinese-American history, capturing her mother's incredible journey from an American-born child to a survivor of 1930s rural China and back again.Timestamps / Chapters:(00:00) The Unbelievable Reverse Immigration Story of Helen Chu(01:32) Writing in a Mother's Voice: Capturing Authenticity(03:40) The Journey to America: Understanding the "Paper Son" System(06:12) Life in a 1920s Detroit Chinese Laundry(15:23) Culture Shock in Reverse: Returning to a 1930s Cantonese Village(23:57) Illness and Survival: A Brush with Death in Rural China(27:14) The Kindness of Strangers: Securing a Passage Back to America(33:01) Trapped in a Difficult Marriage and the Hidden Cost of "Settling Down"(37:14) Building Financial Independence and Finding True Partnership(39:07) The Meaning Behind the Title: "The Strength of Water"(40:08) What's Next? Adapting the Story for the Screen

This Day in Legal History: Wong Kim ArkOn January 14, 1898, the Supreme Court of the United States issued its landmark decision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, firmly establishing the doctrine of birthright citizenship under the Constitution.The case arose after Wong Kim Ark, born in San Francisco to Chinese parents who were not U.S. citizens, was denied reentry to the country following a trip abroad. Federal officials argued that because his parents were subjects of the Emperor of China and barred from naturalization, Wong Kim Ark was not a U.S. citizen.The Court rejected that position, holding that citizenship is determined by place of birth, not by the nationality or immigration status of one's parents. In a 6–2 decision, the Court relied heavily on the text and history of the Fourteenth Amendment.The majority emphasized that the Amendment codified the common-law rule that nearly all persons born on U.S. soil are citizens. This interpretation directly limited the government's ability to deny citizenship based on race or ancestry.The decision came at a time of intense anti-Chinese sentiment and restrictive immigration laws, including the Chinese Exclusion Act. By ruling in Wong Kim Ark's favor, the Court drew a clear constitutional boundary around congressional power over citizenship.The case has since served as the cornerstone for modern citizenship law in the United States. It remains one of the most frequently cited precedents in debates over immigration, nationality, and constitutional identity.The Supreme Court of the United States is expected to release one or more decisions as it resumes issuing opinions, while several major cases remain unresolved. Among the most closely watched is a challenge to sweeping tariffs imposed by President Trump. The justices typically do not announce in advance which cases they will decide, adding uncertainty to each decision day. The tariffs case, argued in November, raises significant questions about the scope of presidential authority and its economic consequences worldwide.Trump relied on a 1977 emergency powers statute to justify tariffs on nearly all U.S. trading partners, framing trade deficits and drug trafficking as national emergencies. During oral arguments, both conservative and liberal justices appeared skeptical that the statute authorized such broad trade measures. Lower courts have already ruled that Trump exceeded his authority, and his administration is now seeking reversal. The lawsuits were brought by affected businesses and a coalition of states, most led by Democrats. Other pending cases involve voting rights, religious liberty, campaign finance limits, the firing of a Federal Trade Commission official, and the legality of conversion therapy bans. Together, these disputes reflect a Court grappling with the limits of executive power and regulatory authority.Supreme Court set to issue rulings, with Trump tariffs case still pending | ReutersConservative justices on the Supreme Court appeared inclined to uphold state laws that bar transgender athletes from competing on female sports teams. The Court heard lengthy arguments in cases from Idaho and West Virginia, where lower courts had ruled in favor of transgender students challenging the bans. A majority of the justices expressed concern about adopting a nationwide rule amid ongoing debate over whether medical treatments can eliminate sex-based athletic advantages. Conservative members of the Court emphasized fairness and safety in women's sports, while liberal justices largely signaled support for the transgender challengers. The states argued that their laws lawfully classify athletes by biological sex and are necessary to preserve equal athletic opportunities for women and girls. Lawyers for the challengers contended that the bans discriminate based on sex or transgender status in violation of constitutional equal protection and federal education law. The Trump administration defended the state laws, urging the Court to leave policy decisions to legislatures rather than judges. The outcome could have far-reaching effects beyond sports, influencing other restrictions on transgender people in public life. A decision is expected by the end of June.US Supreme Court conservatives lean toward allowing transgender sports bans | ReutersA federal judge has ruled that Cornell University, Georgetown University, and the University of Pennsylvania must continue defending against a lawsuit alleging collusion in financial aid practices. The case claims that elite universities worked together to limit competition and give preferential treatment to wealthier applicants. U.S. District Judge Matthew Kennelly rejected the schools' efforts to dismiss the lawsuit, finding enough evidence for the claims to proceed to trial. The plaintiffs argue that the universities violated federal antitrust law over two decades by breaching promises not to consider applicants' financial circumstances. Several other prominent universities previously settled similar claims for a combined total of nearly $320 million, though the remaining defendants deny any wrongdoing. The lawsuit represents more than 200,000 current and former students seeking substantial damages. The judge pointed to evidence suggesting the schools coordinated financial aid policies to avoid competing against one another. He also concluded that the plaintiffs properly defined a nationwide market for elite private universities and filed their claims within the allowable time frame. The decision clears the way for a jury to determine whether the schools unlawfully inflated the cost of attendance.Cornell, Georgetown, UPenn must face lawsuit over financial aid | ReutersThe British Broadcasting Corporation has moved to dismiss Donald Trump's $10 billion lawsuit stemming from its editing of a January 6, 2021 speech. The broadcaster argues that a Florida court lacks authority over the case because the program was not broadcast in that state. It also contends Trump cannot show he suffered harm, noting that he was re-elected after the documentary aired. Trump alleges the BBC misleadingly combined excerpts of his speech in a way that implied he encouraged supporters to storm the U.S. Capitol, while excluding remarks calling for peaceful protest. The lawsuit asserts violations of Florida's deceptive and unfair trade practices law and seeks billions of dollars in damages across two claims. The BBC has acknowledged the editing error and apologized but maintains the lawsuit is legally flawed. In court filings, the broadcaster argues Trump failed to plausibly allege “actual malice,” a requirement for defamation claims brought by public officials. The BBC also disputes Trump's claim that the documentary was available to U.S. audiences via streaming platforms. It has asked the court to pause discovery while the dismissal motion is pending, citing unnecessary expense if the case is thrown out.BBC seeks to have Trump's $10 billion lawsuit dismissed | Reuters This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.minimumcomp.com/subscribe

Deportation has impacted communities across California and the country, and has become the face of U.S. immigration policy today. At the culmination of a year marked by violent ICE raids, it's crucial to understand how we got to this point, and what may lie ahead. Part origin story, part forecast, this conversation between historian and MacArthur Fellow Kelly Lytle Hernández and filmmaker and MacArthur Fellow Alex Rivera illuminates the history of deportation. The pair discuss the first man to be deported under the 19th-century Chinese Exclusion Act, reach further back in time to consider that law's predecessors, and, finally, return to the present day to pose questions about the future of U.S. banishment. Is deportation an anomaly of our modern era, or does it reflect the very heart of this country's history? Who is targeted for deportation in America, and why? And where should we look for reform or respite—resistance groups, the courts, political leaders? This program is co-presented by Zócalo Public Square, the MacArthur Foundation, Times of San Diego, and Bread & Salt, as part of Zócalo's series “What Connects California?,” marking the 175th anniversary of California's statehood.

00:08 From Bruce Lee's San Francisco origins during the segregationist era of the Chinese Exclusion Act and family's immigration story, to his role in the lives and minds of young Asian Americans, a new book traces Lee's story. We talk with Jeff Chang, cultural historian, about Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. “He was a marker of culture, a sign, a signifier that put us in the pop culture conversation,” Chang says. “Folks want to whitewash his story… as if to separate him from other immigrants. No. Bruce was part of a class of people that was completely shunned and looked down upon… He's dealing with racism every day. Part of the story here is to recover that, so people really understand what that means.” Jeff Chang won the American Book Award for Can't Stop Won't Stop, his history of the early years of hip hop. The post Cultural Historian Jeff Chang on the Life of Bruce Lee appeared first on KPFA.

Before there was the Chinese Exclusion Act, there was the Page Act. Passed in 1875 amid growing anti-Chinese sentiment in the 19th century, the Page Act was one of the first national immigration laws in the United States. It targeted several categories of people, including contract laborers from Asia, women brought in for sex work and certain convicted criminals. In practice, however, it functioned mainly to restrict Chinese and other Asian women from entering the country.“It had enormous implications for the issues of race, gender and labor in U.S. immigration history and Asian American history,” says UC Berkeley history professor Hidetaka Hirota, who moderated a campus discussion in April to mark the Page Act's 150th anniversary.In this Berkeley Talks episode, a panel of Berkeley scholars unpack how the Page Act helped institutionalize racially targeted exclusion and gendered surveillance at the border, and how it laid the groundwork for the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act and later immigration laws. They also challenge the enduring myth of the “white bootstrapping ethnic,” supposedly living “the right way” without state support, showing instead how immigration and welfare regimes were structured to advantage European newcomers while systematically excluding Asians and other people of color.Panelists include Catherine Ceniza Choy, professor of ethnic studies; Cybelle Fox, professor of sociology; Leti Volpp, professor of law; and Hidetaka Hirota, associate professor of history, who moderated the conversation. The event, which took place on April 23, was hosted by Berkeley's Social Science Matrix and was co-sponsored by the Berkeley Interdisciplinary Migration Initiative, the Department of Sociology, the Department of History, the Department of Ethnic Studies, the Asian American Research Center and the Center for Race and Gender.Watch a video of the discussion.Listen to the episode and read the transcript on UC Berkeley News (news.berkeley.edu/podcasts/berkeley-talks).Music by HoliznaCC0.Photo from the National Archives. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Powerleegirl hosts, the mother daughter team of Miko Lee, Jalena & Ayame Keane-Lee speak with artists about their craft and the works that you can catch in the Bay Area. Featured are filmmaker Yuriko Gamo Romer, playwright Jessica Huang and photographer Joyce Xi.   More info about their work here: Diamond Diplomacy Yuriko Gamo Romer Jessica Huang's Mother of Exiles at Berkeley Rep Joyce Xi's Our Language Our Story at Galeria de la Raza     Show Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:46] Thank you for joining us on Apex Express Tonight. Join the PowerLeeGirls as we talk with some powerful Asian American women artists. My mom and sister speak with filmmaker Yuriko Gamo Romer, playwright Jessica Huang, and photographer Joyce Xi. Each of these artists have works that you can enjoy right now in the Bay Area. First up, let's listen in to my mom Miko Lee chat with Yuriko Gamo Romer about her film Diamond Diplomacy.    Miko Lee: [00:01:19] Welcome, Yuriko Gamo Romer to Apex Express, amazing filmmaker, award-winning director and producer. Welcome to Apex Express.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:01:29] Thank you for having me.    Miko Lee: [00:01:31] It's so great to see your work after this many years. We were just chatting that we knew each other maybe 30 years ago and have not reconnected. So it's lovely to see your work. I'm gonna start with asking you a question. I ask all of my Apex guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:01:49] Oh, who are my people? That's a hard one. I guess I'm Japanese American. I'm Asian American, but I'm also Japanese. I still have a lot of people in Japan. That's not everything. Creative people, artists, filmmakers, all the people that I work with, which I love. And I don't know, I can't pare it down to one narrow sentence or phrase. And I don't know what my legacy is. My legacy is that I was born in Japan, but I have grown up in the United States and so I carry with me all that is, technically I'm an immigrant, so I have little bits and pieces of that and, but I'm also very much grew up in the United States and from that perspective, I'm an American. So too many words.    Miko Lee: [00:02:44] Thank you so much for sharing. Your latest film was called Diamond Diplomacy. Can you tell us what inspired this film?   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:02:52] I have a friend named Dave Dempsey and his father, Con Dempsey, was a pitcher for the San Francisco Seals. And the Seals were the minor league team that was in the West Coast was called the Pacific Coast League They were here before the Major League teams came to the West Coast. So the seals were San Francisco's team, and Con Dempsey was their pitcher. And it so happened that he was part of the 1949 tour when General MacArthur sent the San Francisco Seals to Allied occupied Japan after World War II. And. It was a story that I had never heard. There was a museum exhibit south of Market in San Francisco, and I was completely wowed and awed because here's this lovely story about baseball playing a role in diplomacy and in reuniting a friendship between two countries. And I had never heard of it before and I'm pretty sure most people don't know the story. Con Dempsey had a movie camera with him when he went to Japan I saw the home movies playing on a little TV set in the corner at the museum, and I thought, oh, this has to be a film. I was in the middle of finishing Mrs. Judo, so I, it was something I had to tuck into the back of my mind Several years later, I dug it up again and I made Dave go into his mother's garage and dig out the actual films. And that was the beginning. But then I started opening history books and doing research, and suddenly it was a much bigger, much deeper, much longer story.   Miko Lee: [00:04:32] So you fell in, it was like synchronicity that you have this friend that had this footage, and then you just fell into the research. What stood out to you?    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:04:41] It was completely amazing to me that baseball had been in Japan since 1872. I had no idea. And most people,   Miko Lee: [00:04:49] Yeah, I learned that too, from your film. That was so fascinating.    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:04:53] So that was the first kind of. Wow. And then I started to pick up little bits and pieces like in 1934, there was an American All Star team that went to Japan. And Babe Ruth was the headliner on that team. And he was a big star. People just loved him in Japan. And then I started to read the history and understanding that. Not that a baseball team or even Babe Ruth can go to Japan and prevent the war from happening. But there was a warming moment when the people of Japan were so enamored of this baseball team coming and so excited about it that maybe there was a moment where it felt like. Things had thawed out a little bit. So there were other points in history where I started to see this trend where baseball had a moment or had an influence in something, and I just thought, wow, this is really a fascinating history that goes back a long way and is surprising. And then of course today we have all these Japanese faces in Major League baseball.   Miko Lee: [00:06:01] So have you always been a baseball fan?   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:06:04] I think I really became a fan of Major League Baseball when I was living in New York. Before that, I knew what it was. I played softball, I had a small connection to it, but I really became a fan when I was living in New York and then my son started to play baseball and he would come home from the games and he would start to give us the play by play and I started to learn more about it. And it is a fascinating game 'cause it's much more complex than I think some people don't like it 'cause it's complex.    Miko Lee: [00:06:33] I must confess, I have not been a big baseball fan. I'm also thinking, oh, a film about baseball. But I actually found it so fascinating with especially in the world that we live in right now, where there's so much strife that there was this way to speak a different language. And many times we do that through art or music and I thought it was so great how your film really showcased how baseball was used as a tool for political repair and change. I'm wondering how you think this film applies to the time that we live in now where there's such an incredible division, and not necessarily with Japan, but just with everything in the world.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:07:13] I think when it comes down to it, if we actually get to know people. We learn that we're all human beings and that we probably have more in common than we give ourselves credit for. And if we can find a space that is common ground, whether it's a baseball field or the kitchen, or an art studio, or a music studio, I think it gives us a different place where we can exist and acknowledge That we're human beings and that we maybe have more in common than we're willing to give ourselves credit for. So I like to see things where people can have a moment where you step outside of yourself and go, oh wait, I do have something in common with that person over there. And maybe it doesn't solve the problem. But once you have that awakening, I think there's something. that happens, it opens you up. And I think sports is one of those things that has a little bit of that magical power. And every time I watch the Olympics, I'm just completely in awe.    Miko Lee: [00:08:18] Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. And speaking of that kind of repair and that aspect that sports can have, you ended up making a short film called Baseball Behind Barbed Wire, about the incarcerated Japanese Americans and baseball. And I wondered where in the filmmaking process did you decide, oh, I gotta pull this out of the bigger film and make it its own thing?    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:08:41] I had been working with Carrie Yonakegawa. From Fresno and he's really the keeper of the history of Japanese American baseball and especially of the story of the World War II Japanese American incarceration through the baseball stories. And he was one of my scholars and consultants on the longer film. And I have been working on diamond diplomacy for 11 years. So I got to know a lot of my experts quite well. I knew. All along that there was more to that part of the story that sort of deserved its own story, and I was very fortunate to get a grant from the National Parks Foundation, and I got that grant right when the pandemic started. It was a good thing. I had a chunk of money and I was able to do historical research, which can be done on a computer. Nobody was doing any production at that beginning of the COVID time. And then it's a short film, so it was a little more contained and I was able to release that one in 2023.   Miko Lee: [00:09:45] Oh, so you actually made the short before Diamond Diplomacy.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:09:49] Yeah. The funny thing is that I finished it before diamond diplomacy, it's always been intrinsically part of the longer film and you'll see the longer film and you'll understand that part of baseball behind Barbed Wire becomes a part of telling that part of the story in Diamond Diplomacy.   Miko Lee: [00:10:08] Yeah, I appreciate it. So you almost use it like research, background research for the longer film, is that right?    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:10:15] I had been doing the research about the World War II, Japanese American incarceration because it was part of the story of the 150 years between Japan and the United States and Japanese people in the United States and American people that went to Japan. So it was always a part of that longer story, and I think it just evolved that there was a much bigger story that needed to be told separately and especially 'cause I had access to the interview footage of the two guys that had been there, and I knew Carrie so well. So that was part of it, was that I learned so much about that history from him.   Miko Lee: [00:10:58] Thanks. I appreciated actually watching both films to be able to see more in depth about what happened during the incarceration, so that was really powerful. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the style of actually both films, which combine vintage Japanese postcards, animation and archival footage, and how you decided to blend the films in this way.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:11:19] Anytime you're making a film about history, there's that challenge of. How am I going to show this story? How am I gonna get the audience to understand and feel what was happening then? And of course you can't suddenly go out and go, okay, I'm gonna go film Babe Ruth over there. 'cause he's not around anymore. So you know, you start digging up photographs. If we're in the era of you have photographs, you have home movies, you have 16 millimeter, you have all kinds of film, then great. You can find that stuff if you can find it and use it. But if you go back further, when before people had cameras and before motion picture, then you have to do something else. I've always been very much enamored of Japanese woodblock prints. I think they're beautiful and they're very documentary in that they tell stories about the people and the times and what was going on, and so I was able to find some that sort of helped evoke the stories of that period of time. And then in doing that, I became interested in the style and maybe can I co-opt that style? Can we take some of the images that we have that are photographs? And I had a couple of young artists work on this stuff and it started to work and I was very excited. So then we were doing things like, okay, now we can create a transition between the print style illustration and the actual footage that we're moving into, or the photograph that we're dissolving into. And the same thing with baseball behind barbed wire. It became a challenge to show what was actually happening in the camps. In the beginning, people were not allowed to have cameras at all, and even later on it wasn't like it was common thing for people to have cameras, especially movie cameras. Latter part of the war, there was a little bit more in terms of photos and movies, but in terms of getting the more personal stories. I found an exhibit of illustrations and it really was drawings and paintings that were visual diaries. People kept these visual diaries, they drew and they painted, and I think part of it was. Something to do, but I think the other part of it was a way to show and express what was going on. So one of the most dramatic moments in there is a drawing of a little boy sitting on a toilet with his hands covering his face, and no one would ever have a photograph. Of a little boy sitting on a toilet being embarrassed because there are no partitions around the toilet. But this was a very dramatic and telling moment that was drawn. And there were some other things like that. There was one illustration in baseball behind barbed wire that shows a family huddled up and there's this incredible wind blowing, and it's not. Home movie footage, but you feel the wind and what they had to live through. I appreciate art in general, so it was very fun for me to be able to use various different kinds of art and find ways to make it work and make it edit together with the other, with the photographs and the footage.    Miko Lee: [00:14:56] It's really beautiful and it tells the story really well. I'm wondering about a response to the film from folks that were in it because you got many elders to share their stories about what it was like being either folks that were incarcerated or folks that were playing in such an unusual time. Have you screened the film for folks that were in it? And if so what has their response been?    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:15:20] Both the men that were in baseball behind barbed wire are not living anymore, so they have not seen it. With diamond diplomacy, some of the historians have been asked to review cuts of the film along the way. But the two baseball players that play the biggest role in the film, I've given them links to look at stuff, but I don't think they've seen it. So Moi's gonna see it for the first time, I'm pretty sure, on Friday night, and it'll be interesting to see what his reaction to it is. And of course. His main language is not English. So I think some of it's gonna be a little tough for him to understand. But I am very curious 'cause I've known him for a long time and I know his stories and I feel like when we were putting the film together, it was really important for me to be able to tell the stories in the way that I felt like. He lived them and he tells them, I feel like I've heard these stories over and over again. I've gotten to know him and I understand some of his feelings of joy and of regret and all these other things that happen, so I will be very interested to see what his reaction is to it.   Miko Lee: [00:16:40] Can you share for our audience who you're talking about.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:16:43] Well, Sanhi is a nickname, his name is Masa Nouri. Murakami. He picked up that nickname because none of the ball players could pronounce his name.   Miko Lee: [00:16:53] I did think that was horrifically funny when they said they started calling him macaroni 'cause they could not pronounce his name. So many of us have had those experiences.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:17:02] Yeah, especially if your name is Masanori Murakami. That's a long, complicated one. So he, Masanori Murakami is the first Japanese player that came and played for the major leagues. And it was an inadvertent playing because he was a kid, he was 19 years old. He was playing on a professional team in Japan and they had some, they had a time period where it made sense to send a couple of these kids over to the United States. They had a relationship with Kapi Harada, who was a Japanese American who had been in the Army and he was in Japan during. The occupation and somehow he had, he'd also been a big baseball person, so I think he developed all these relationships and he arranged for these three kids to come to the United States and to, as Mahi says, to study baseball. And they were sent to the lowest level minor league, the single A camps, and they played baseball. They learned the American ways to play baseball, and they got to play with low level professional baseball players. Marcy was a very talented left handed pitcher. And so when September 1st comes around and the postseason starts, they expand the roster and they add more players to the team. And the scouts had been watching him and the Giants needed a left-handed pitcher, so they decided to take a chance on him, and they brought him up and he was suddenly going to Shea Stadium when. The Giants were playing the Mets and he was suddenly pitching in a giant stadium of 40,000 people.    Miko Lee: [00:18:58] Can you share a little bit about his experience when he first came to America? I just think it shows such a difference in time to now.    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:19:07] Yeah, no kidding. Because today they're the players that come from Japan are coddled and they have interpreters wherever they go and they travel and chartered planes and special limousines and whatever else they get. So Marcie. He's, I think he was 20 by the time he was brought up so young. Mahi at 20 years old, the manager comes in and says, Hey, you're going to New York tomorrow and hands him plane tickets and he has to negotiate his way. Get on this plane, get on that plane, figure out how to. Get from the airport to the hotel, and he's barely speaking English at this point. He jokes that he used to carry around an English Japanese dictionary in one pocket and a Japanese English dictionary in the other pocket. So that's how he ended up getting to Shea Stadium was in this like very precarious, like they didn't even send an escort.   Miko Lee: [00:20:12] He had to ask the pilot how to get to the hotel. Yeah, I think that's wild. So I love this like history and what's happened and then I'm thinking now as I said at the beginning, I'm not a big baseball sports fan, but I love love watching Shohei Ohtani. I just think he's amazing. And I'm just wondering, when you look at that trajectory of where Mahi was back then and now, Shohei Ohtani now, how do you reflect on that historically? And I'm wondering if you've connected with any of the kind of modern Japanese players, if they've seen this film.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:20:48] I have never met Shohei Ohtani. I have tried to get some interviews, but I haven't gotten any. I have met Ichi. I did meet Nori Aoki when he was playing for the Giants, and I met Kenta Maya when he was first pitching for the Dodgers. They're all, I think they're all really, they seem to be really excited to be here and play. I don't know what it's like to be Ohtani. I saw something the other day in social media that was comparing him to Taylor Swift because the two of them are this like other level of famous and it must just be crazy. Probably can't walk down the street anymore. But it is funny 'cause I've been editing all this footage of mahi when he was 19, 20 years old and they have a very similar face. And it just makes me laugh that, once upon a time this young Japanese kid was here and. He was worried about how to make ends meet at the end of the month, and then you got the other one who's like a multi multimillionaire.    Miko Lee: [00:21:56] But you're right, I thought that too. They look similar, like the tall, the face, they're like the vibe that they put out there. Have they met each other?    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:22:05] They have actually met, I don't think they know each other well, but they've definitely met.   Miko Lee: [00:22:09] Mm, It was really a delight. I am wondering what you would like audiences to walk away with after seeing your film.   Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:22:17] Hopefully they will have a little bit of appreciation for baseball and international baseball, but more than anything else. I wonder if they can pick up on that sense of when you find common ground, it's a very special space and it's an ability to have this people to people diplomacy. You get to experience people, you get to know them a little bit. Even if you've never met Ohtani, you now know a little bit about him and his life and. Probably what he eats and all that kind of stuff. So it gives you a chance to see into another culture. And I think that makes for a different kind of understanding. And certainly for the players. They sit on the bench together and they practice together and they sweat together and they, everything that they do together, these guys know each other. They learn about each other's languages and each other's food and each other's culture. And I think Mahi went back to Japan with almost as much Spanish as they did English. So I think there's some magical thing about people to people diplomacy, and I hope that people can get a sense of that.    Miko Lee: [00:23:42] Thank you so much for sharing. Can you tell our audience how they could find out more about your film Diamond diplomacy and also about you as an artist?    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:23:50] the website is diamonddiplomacy.com. We're on Instagram @diamonddiplomacy. We're also on Facebook Diamond Diplomacy. So those are all the places that you can find stuff, those places will give you a sense of who I am as a filmmaker and an artist too.    Miko Lee: [00:24:14] Thank you so much for joining us today, Yuriko. Gamo. Romo. So great to speak with you and I hope the film does really well.    Yuriko Gamo Romer: [00:24:22] Thank you, Miko. This was a lovely opportunity to chat with you.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:24:26] Next up, my sister Jalena Keane-Lee speaks with playwright Jessica Huang, whose new play Mother of Exiles just had its world premiere at Berkeley Rep is open until December 21st.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:24:39] All right. Jessica Huang, thank you so much for being here with us on Apex Express and you are the writer of the new play Mother of Exiles, which is playing at Berkeley Rep from November 14th to December 21st. Thank you so much for being here.   Jessica Huang: [00:24:55] Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:24:59] I'm so curious about this project. The synopsis was so interesting. I was wondering if you could just tell us a little bit about it and how you came to this work.   Jessica Huang: [00:25:08] When people ask me what mother of Exiles is, I always say it's an American family story that spans 160 plus years, and is told in three acts. In 90 minutes. So just to get the sort of sense of the propulsion of the show and the form, the formal experiment of it. The first part takes place in 1898, when the sort of matriarch of the family is being deported from Angel Island. The second part takes place in 1999, so a hundred years later where her great grandson is. Now working for the Miami, marine interdiction unit. So he's a border cop. The third movement takes place in 2063 out on the ocean after Miami has sunk beneath the water. And their descendants are figuring out what they're gonna do to survive. It was a strange sort of conception for the show because I had been wanting to write a play. I'd been wanting to write a triptych about America and the way that interracial love has shaped. This country and it shaped my family in particular. I also wanted to tell a story that had to do with this, the land itself in some way. I had been sort of carrying an idea for the play around for a while, knowing that it had to do with cross-cultural border crossing immigration themes. This sort of epic love story that each, in each chapter there's a different love story. It wasn't until I went on a trip to Singapore and to China and got to meet some family members that I hadn't met before that the rest of it sort of fell into place. The rest of it being that there's a, the presence of, ancestors and the way that the living sort of interacts with those who have come before throughout the play.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:27:13] I noticed that ancestors, and ghosts and spirits are a theme throughout your work. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your own ancestry and how that informs your writing and creative practice.   Jessica Huang: [00:27:25] Yeah, I mean, I'm in a fourth generation interracial marriage. So, I come from a long line of people who have loved people who were different from them, who spoke different languages, who came from different countries. That's my story. My brother his partner is German. He lives in Berlin. We have a history in our family of traveling and of loving people who are different from us. To me that's like the story of this country and is also the stuff I like to write about. The thing that I feel like I have to share with the world are, is just stories from that experience.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:28:03] That's really awesome. I guess I haven't really thought about it that way, but I'm third generation of like interracial as well. 'cause I'm Chinese, Japanese, and Irish. And then at a certain point when you're mixed, it's like, okay, well. The odds of me being with someone that's my exact same ethnic breakdown feel pretty low. So it's probably gonna be an interracial relationship in one way or the other.   Jessica Huang: [00:28:26] Totally. Yeah. And, and, and I don't, you know, it sounds, and it sounds like in your family and in mine too, like we just. Kept sort of adding culture to our family. So my grandfather's from Shanghai, my grandmother, you know, is, it was a very, like upper crust white family on the east coast. Then they had my dad. My dad married my mom whose people are from the Ukraine. And then my husband's Puerto Rican. We just keep like broadening the definition of family and the definition of community and I think that's again, like I said, like the story of this country.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:29:00] That's so beautiful. I'm curious about the role of place in this project in particular, mother of exiles, angel Island, obviously being in the Bay Area, and then the rest of it taking place, in Miami or in the future. The last act is also like Miami or Miami adjacent. What was the inspiration behind the place and how did place and location and setting inform the writing.   Jessica Huang: [00:29:22] It's a good question. Angel Island is a place that has loomed large in my work. Just being sort of known as the Ellis Island of the West, but actually being a place with a much more difficult history. I've always been really inspired by the stories that come out of Angel Island, the poetry that's come out of Angel Island and, just the history of Asian immigration. It felt like it made sense to set the first part of the play here, in the Bay. Especially because Eddie, our protagonist, spent some time working on a farm. So there's also like this great history of agriculture and migrant workers here too. It just felt like a natural place to set it. And then why did we move to Miami? There are so many moments in American history where immigration has been a real, center point of the sort of conversation, the national conversation. And moving forward to the nineties, the wet foot, dry foot Cuban immigration story felt like really potent and a great place to tell the next piece of this tale. Then looking toward the future Miami is definitely, or you know, according to the science that I have read one of the cities that is really in danger of flooding as sea levels rise.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:30:50] Okay. The Cuban immigration. That totally makes sense. That leads perfectly into my next question, which was gonna be about how did you choose the time the moments in time? I think that one you said was in the nineties and curious about the choice to have it be in the nineties and not present day. And then how did you choose how far in the future you wanted to have the last part?   Jessica Huang: [00:31:09] Some of it was really just based on the needs of the characters. So the how far into the future I wanted us to be following a character that we met as a baby in the previous act. So it just, you know, made sense. I couldn't push it too far into the future. It made sense to set it in the 2060s. In terms of the nineties and, why not present day? Immigration in the nineties , was so different in it was still, like I said, it was still, it's always been a important national conversation, but it wasn't. There was a, it felt like a little bit more, I don't know if gentle is the word, but there just was more nuance to the conversation. And still there was a broad effort to prevent Cuban and refugees from coming ashore. I think I was fascinated by how complicated, I mean, what foot, dry foot, the idea of it is that , if a refugee is caught on water, they're sent back to Cuba. But if they're caught on land, then they can stay in the us And just the idea of that is so. The way that, people's lives are affected by just where they are caught , in their crossing. I just found that to be a bit ridiculous and in terms of a national policy. It made sense then to set the second part, which moves into a bit of a farce at a time when immigration also kind of felt like a farce.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:32:46] That totally makes sense. It feels very dire right now, obviously. But it's interesting to be able to kind of go back in time and see when things were handled so differently and also how I think throughout history and also touching many different racial groups. We've talked a lot on this show about the Chinese Exclusion Act and different immigration policies towards Chinese and other Asian Americans. But they've always been pretty arbitrary and kind of farcical as you put it. Yeah.   Jessica Huang: [00:33:17] Yeah. And that's not to make light of like the ways that people's lives were really impacted by all of this policy . But I think the arbitrariness of it, like you said, is just really something that bears examining. I also think it's really helpful to look at where we are now through the lens of the past or the future. Mm-hmm. Just gives just a little bit of distance and a little bit of perspective. Maybe just a little bit of context to how we got to where we got to.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:33:50] That totally makes sense. What has your experience been like of seeing the play be put up? It's my understanding, this is the first this is like the premier of the play at Berkeley Rep.   Jessica Huang: [00:34:00] Yes. Yeah. It's the world premier. It's it incredible. Jackie Bradley is our director and she's phenomenal. It's just sort of mesmerizing what is happening with this play? It's so beautiful and like I've alluded to, it shifts tone between the first movement being sort of a historical drama on Angel Island to, it moves into a bit of a farce in part two, and then it, by the third movement, we're living in sort of a dystopic, almost sci-fi future. The way that Jackie's just deftly moved an audience through each of those experiences while holding onto the important threads of this family and, the themes that we're unpacking and this like incredible design team, all of these beautiful visuals sounds, it's just really so magical to see it come to life in this way. And our cast is incredible. I believe there are 18 named roles in the play, and there are a few surprises and all of them are played by six actors. who are just. Unbelievable. Like all of them have the ability to play against type. They just transform and transform again and can navigate like, the deepest tragedies and the like, highest moments of comedy and just hold on to this beautiful humanity. Each and every one of them is just really spectacular. So I'm just, you know. I don't know. I just feel so lucky to be honest with you. This production is going to be so incredible. It's gonna be, it feels like what I imagine in my mind, but, you know, plus,    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:35:45] well, I really can't wait to see it. What are you hoping that audiences walk away with after seeing the show?   Jessica Huang: [00:35:54] That's a great question. I want audiences to feel connected to their ancestors and feel part of this community of this country and, and grateful and acknowledge the sacrifices that somebody along the line made so that they could be here with, with each other watching the show. I hope, people feel like they enjoyed themselves and got to experience something that they haven't experienced before. I think that there are definitely, nuances to the political conversation that we're having right now, about who has the right to immigrate into this country and who has the right to be a refugee, who has the right to claim asylum. I hope to add something to that conversation with this play, however small.   Jalena Keane-Lee:[00:36:43]  Do you know where the play is going next?   Jessica Huang: [00:36:45] No. No. I dunno where it's going next. Um, exciting. Yeah, but we'll, time will   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:36:51] and previews start just in a few days, right?   Jessica Huang: [00:36:54] Yeah. Yeah. We have our first preview, we have our first audience on Friday. So yeah, very looking forward to seeing how all of this work that we've been doing lands on folks.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:37:03] Wow, that's so exciting. Do you have any other projects that you're working on? Or any upcoming projects that you'd like to share about?   Jessica Huang: [00:37:10] Yeah, yeah, I do. I'm part of the writing team for the 10 Things I Hate About You Musical, which is in development with an Eye Toward Broadway. I'm working with Lena Dunham and Carly Rae Jepsen and Ethan Ska to make that musical. I also have a fun project in Chicago that will soon be announced.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:37:31] And what is keeping you inspired and keeping your, you know, creative energies flowing in these times?   Jessica Huang: [00:37:37] Well first of all, I think, you know, my collaborators on this show are incredibly inspiring. The nice thing about theater is that you just get to go and be inspired by people all the time. 'cause it's this big collaboration, you don't have to do it all by yourself. So that would be the first thing I would say. I haven't seen a lot of theater since I've been out here in the bay, but right before I left New York, I saw MEUs . Which is by Brian Keda, Nigel Robinson. And it's this sort of two-hander musical, but they do live looping and they sort of create the music live. Wow. And it's another, it's another show about an untold history and about solidarity and about folks coming together from different backgrounds and about ancestors, so there's a lot of themes that really resonate. And also the show is just so great. It's just really incredible. So , that was the last thing I saw that I loved. I'm always so inspired by theater that I get to see.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:36] That sounds wonderful. Is there anything else that you'd like to share?   Jessica Huang: [00:38:40] No, I don't think so. I just thanks so much for having me and come check out the show. I think you'll enjoy it. There's something for everyone.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:48] Yeah. I'm so excited to see the show. Is there like a Chinese Cuban love story with the Miami portion? Oh, that's so awesome. This is an aside, but I'm a filmmaker and I've been working on a documentary about, Chinese people in Cuba and there's like this whole history of Chinese Cubans in Cuba too.   Jessica Huang: [00:39:07] Oh, that's wonderful. In this story, it's a person who's a descendant of, a love story between a Chinese person and a Mexican man, a Chinese woman and a Mexican man, and oh, their descendant. Then also, there's a love story between him and a Cuban woman.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:39:25] That's awesome. Wow. I'm very excited to see it in all the different intergenerational layers and tonal shifts. I can't wait to see how it all comes together.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:39:34] Next up we are back with Miko Lee, who is now speaking with photographer Joyce Xi about her latest exhibition entitled Our Language, our Story Running Through January in San Francisco at Galleria de Raza.    Miko Lee: [00:39:48] Welcome, Joyce Xi to Apex Express.    Joyce Xi: [00:39:52] Thanks for having me.    Miko Lee: [00:39:53] Yes. I'm, I wanna start by asking you a question I ask most of my guests, and this is based on the great poet Shaka Hodges. It's an adaptation of her question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Joyce Xi: [00:40:09] My people are artists, free spirits, people who wanna see a more free and just, and beautiful world. I'm Chinese American. A lot of my work has been in the Asian American community with all kinds of different people who dreaming of something better and trying to make the world a better place and doing so with creativity and with positive and good energy.   Miko Lee: [00:40:39] I love it. And what legacy do you carry with you?   Joyce Xi: [00:40:43] I am a fighter. I feel like just people who have been fighting for a better world. Photography wise, like definitely thinking about Corky Lee who is an Asian American photographer and activist. There's been people who have done it before me. There will be people who do it after me, but I wanna do my version of it here.   Miko Lee: [00:41:03] Thank you so much and for lifting up the great Corky Lee who has been such a big influence on all of us. I'm wondering in that vein, can you talk a little bit about how you use photography as a tool for social change?   Joyce Xi: [00:41:17] Yeah. Photography I feel is a very powerful tool for social change. Photography is one of those mediums where it's emotional, it's raw, it's real. It's a way to see and show and feel like important moments, important stories, important emotions. I try to use it as a way to share. Truths and stories about issues that are important, things that people experience, whether it's, advocating for environmental justice or language justice or just like some of them, just to highlight some of the struggles and challenges people experience as well as the joys and the celebrations and just the nuance of people's lives. I feel like photography is a really powerful medium to show that. And I love photography in particular because it's really like a frozen moment. I think what's so great about photography is that. It's that moment, it's that one feeling, that one expression, and it's kind of like frozen in time. So you can really, sit there and ponder about what's in this person's eyes or what's this person trying to say? Or. What does this person's struggle like? You can just see it through their expressions and their emotions and also it's a great way to document. There's so many things that we all do as advocates, as activists, whether it's protesting or whether it's just supporting people who are dealing with something. You have that moment recorded. Can really help us remember those fights and those moments. You can show people what happened. Photography is endlessly powerful. I really believe in it as a tool and a medium for influencing the world in positive ways.   Miko Lee: [00:43:08] I'd love us to shift and talk about your latest work, Our language, Our story.” Can you tell us a little bit about where this came from?   Joyce Xi: [00:43:15] Sure. I was in conversation with Nikita Kumar, who was at the Asian Law Caucus at the time. We were just chatting about art and activism and how photography could be a powerful medium to use to advocate or tell stories about different things. Nikita was talking to me about how a lot of language access work that's being done by organizations that work in immigrant communities can often be a topic that is very jargon filled or very kind of like niche or wonky policy, legal and maybe at times isn't the thing that people really get in the streets about or get really emotionally energized around. It's one of those issues that's so important to everything. Especially since in many immigrant communities, people do not speak English and every single day, every single issue. All these issues that these organizations advocate around. Like housing rights, workers' rights, voting rights, immigration, et cetera, without language, those rights and resources are very hard to understand and even hard to access at all. So, Nik and I were talking about language is so important, it's one of those issues too remind people about the core importance of it. What does it feel like when you don't have access to your language? What does it feel like and look like when you do, when you can celebrate with your community and communicate freely and live your life just as who you are versus when you can't even figure out how to say what you wanna say because there's a language barrier.    Miko Lee: [00:44:55] Joyce can you just for our audience, break down what language access means? What does it mean to you and why is it important for everybody?   Joyce Xi: [00:45:05] Language access is about being able to navigate the world in your language, in the way that you understand and communicate in your life. In advocacy spaces, what it can look like is, we need to have resources and we need to have interpretation in different languages so that people can understand what's being talked about or understand what resources are available or understand what's on the ballot. So they can really experience their life to the fullest. Each of us has our languages that we're comfortable with and it's really our way of expressing everything that's important to us and understanding everything that's important to us. When that language is not available, it's very hard to navigate the world. On the policy front, there's so many ways just having resources in different languages, having interpretation in different spaces, making sure that everybody who is involved in this society can do what they need to do and can understand the decisions that are being made. That affects them and also that they can affect the decisions that affect them.   Miko Lee: [00:46:19] I think a lot of immigrant kids just grow up being like the de facto translator for their parents. Which can be things like medical terminology and legal terms, which they might not be familiar with. And so language asks about providing opportunities for everybody to have equal understanding of what's going on. And so can you talk a little bit about your gallery show? So you and Nikita dreamed up this vision for making language access more accessible and more story based, and then what happened?   Joyce Xi: [00:46:50] We decided to express this through a series of photo stories. Focusing on individual stories from a variety of different language backgrounds and immigration backgrounds and just different communities all across the Bay Area. And really just have people share from the heart, what does language mean to them? What does it affect in their lives? Both when one has access to the language, like for example, in their own community, when they can speak freely and understand and just share everything that's on their heart. And what does it look like when that's not available? When maybe you're out in the streets and you're trying to like talk to the bus driver and you can't even communicate with each other. How does that feel? What does that look like? So we collected all these stories from many different community members across different languages and asked them a series of questions and took photos of them in their day-to-day lives, in family gatherings, at community meetings, at rallies, at home, in the streets, all over the place, wherever people were like Halloween or Ramadan or graduations, or just day-to-day life. Through the quotes that we got from the interviews, as well as the photos that I took to illustrate their stories, we put them together as photo stories for each person. Those are now on display at Galleria Deza in San Francisco. We have over 20 different stories in over 10 different languages. The people in the project spoke like over 15 different languages. Some people used multiple languages and some spoke English, many did not. We had folks who had immigrated recently, folks who had immigrated a while ago. We had children of immigrants talking about their experiences being that bridge as you talked about, navigating translating for their parents and being in this tough spot of growing up really quickly, we just have this kind of tapestry of different stories and, definitely encourage folks to check out the photos but also to read through each person's stories. Everybody has a story that's very special and that is from the heart   Miko Lee: [00:49:00] sounds fun. I can't wait to see it in person. Can you share a little bit about how you selected the participants?    Joyce Xi: [00:49:07] Yeah, selecting the participants was an organic process. I'm a photographer who's trying to honor relationships and not like parachute in. We wanted to build relationships and work with people who felt comfortable sharing their stories, who really wanted to be a part of it, and who are connected in some kind of a way where it didn't feel like completely out of context. So what that meant was that myself and also the Asian Law Caucus we have connections in the community to different organizations who work in different immigrant communities. So we reached out to people that we knew who were doing good work and just say Hey, do you have any community members who would be interested in participating in this project who could share their stories. Then through following these threads we were able to connect with many different organizations who brought either members or community folks who they're connected with to the project. Some of them came through like friends. Another one was like, oh, I've worked with these people before, maybe you can talk to them. One of them I met through a World Refugee Day event. It came through a lot of different relationships and reaching out. We really wanted folks who wanted to share a piece of their life. A lot of folks who really felt like language access and language barriers were a big challenge in their life, and they wanted to talk about it. We were able to gather a really great group together.    Miko Lee: [00:50:33] Can you share how opening night went? How did you navigate showcasing and highlighting the diversity of the languages in one space?    Joyce Xi: [00:50:43] The opening of the exhibit was a really special event. We invited everybody who was part of the project as well as their communities, and we also invited like friends, community and different organizations to come. We really wanted to create a space where we could feel and see what language access and some of the challenges of language access can be all in one space. We had about 10 different languages at least going on at the same time. Some of them we had interpretation through headsets. Some of them we just, it was like fewer people. So people huddled together and just interpreted for the community members. A lot of these organizations that we partnered with, they brought their folks out. So their members, their community members, their friends and then. It was really special because a lot of the people whose photos are on the walls were there, so they invited their friends and family. It was really fun for them to see their photos on the wall. And also I think for all of our different communities, like we can end up really siloed or just like with who we're comfortable with most of the time, especially if we can't communicate very well with each other with language barriers. For everybody to be in the same space and to hear so many languages being used in the same space and for people to be around people maybe that they're not used to being around every day. And yet through everybody's stories, they share a lot of common experiences. Like so many of the stories were related to each other. People talked about being parents, people talked about going to the doctor or taking the bus, like having challenges at the workplace or just what it's like to celebrate your own culture and heritage and language and what the importance of preserving languages. There are so many common threads and. Maybe a lot of people are not used to seeing each other or communicating with each other on a daily basis. So just to have everyone in one space was so special. We had performances, we had food, we had elders, children. There was a huge different range of people and it was just like, it was just cool to see everyone in the same space. It was special.    Miko Lee: [00:52:51] And finally, for folks that get to go to Galleria de la Raza in San Francisco and see the exhibit, what do you want them to walk away with?   Joyce Xi: [00:53:00] I would love for people to walk away just like in a reflective state. You know how to really think about how. Language is so important to everything that we do and through all these stories to really see how so many different immigrant and refugee community members are making it work. And also deal with different barriers and how it affects them, how it affects just really simple human things in life that maybe some of us take for granted, on a daily basis. And just to have more compassion, more understanding. Ultimately, we wanna see our city, our bay area, our country really respecting people and their language and their dignity through language access and through just supporting and uplifting our immigrant communities in general. It's a such a tough time right now. There's so many attacks on our immigrant communities and people are scared and there's a lot of dehumanizing actions and narratives out there. This is, hopefully something completely different than that. Something that uplifts celebrates, honors and really sees our immigrant communities and hopefully people can just feel that feeling of like, oh, okay, we can do better. Everybody has a story. Everybody deserves to be treated with dignity and all the people in these stories are really amazing human beings. It was just an honor for me to even be a part of their story. I hope people can feel some piece of that.    Miko Lee: [00:54:50] Thank you so much, Joyce, for sharing your vision with us, and I hope everybody gets a chance to go out and see your work.    Joyce Xi: [00:54:57] Thank you.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:55:00] Thanks so much for tuning in to Apex Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the guests tonight and find out how you can take direct action.   Apex Express is a proud member of Asian Americans for civil rights and equality. Find out more at aacre.org. That's AACRE.org.   We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important.    Apex Express is produced by  Miko Lee, Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Nina Phillips & Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a good night.       The post APEX Express – 11.20.25 – Artist to Artist appeared first on KPFA.

On this episode, Nathan Goodman is joined by Michael Clemens to discuss why immigration policy matters not just for migrants themselves but for broader economic growth. Drawing on his influential work, including “Economics and Emigration: Trillion-Dollar Bills on the Sidewalk?” (JEP, 2011) and “The Place Premium: Bounding the Price Equivalent of Migration Barriers” (REStat, 2019), Clemens explains how even modest liberalization of migration can create enormous gains, why exchange is positive-sum, and how complementary skills across the workforce drive production. Together they assess the claim that immigration undermines culture and institutions and revisit historical panics ranging from the Chinese Exclusion Act to the Dillingham Commission. Dr. Michael Clemens is a professor in the Department of Economics at George Mason University and a Non-Resident Senior Fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. He helped build the research program on international migration at the Center for Global Development. Show Notes: Samuel Bazzi, et al., “The Confederate Diaspora” (NBER, 2025) Timur Kuran's book, Freedoms Delayed: Political Legacies of Islamic Law in the Middle East (Cambridge University Press, 2023) Chloe N. East, et al., “The Labor Market Effects of Immigration Enforcement” (Journal of Labor Economics, 2023)Mexican Migration projectIf you like the show, please subscribe, leave a 5-star review, and tell others about the show! We're available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you get your podcasts.Virtual Sentiments, a podcast series from the Hayek Program, is streaming. Subscribe today and listen to season three, releasing now!Follow the Hayek Program on Twitter: @HayekProgramLearn more about Academic & Student ProgramsFollow the Mercatus Center on Twitter: @mercatusCC Music: Twisterium

In 1875, the United States passed the Page Act: the first federal law to restrict immigration. The Page Act marked a turning point in American immigration policy, introducing the use of moral and racial criteria to determine who could enter the country.Join me as I examine the origins, language, and enforcement of the Page Act, how the law impacted immigration from China, and how it shaped future U.S. policies, including the Chinese Exclusion Act.The Page Act is often overlooked in discussions of American immigration history, but it offers important insight into how race, gender, and morality became central to border control in the late 19th century.Support the show

IF THERE WERE a category in the Guinness Book of World Records for the state with the crankiest former governor, Oregon would surely hold the title. The state would have earned the record in 1886, when it elected Sylvester Pennoyer. And Pennoyer would have clinched it seven years later with a telegram he shot off to the President of the United States of America telling him, in essence, to mind his own damn business. His precise words: Washington: I will attend to my business. Let the president attend to his.          — Sylvester Pennoyer, Governor of Oregon. This famous telegram was in response to a note from the president, Grover Cleveland, urging western governors to take steps to make sure no Chinese people got hurt in riots or demonstrations following the renewal of the Chinese Exclusion Act. The president had sent the same telegram to the governors of Idaho and California and gotten very different replies. (Washington wasn't a state yet.) But then, Pennoyer was no friend of the Chinese. Or any other ethnic minority either, for that matter. In fact, he owed his governorship to an incident in 1886 in which he and a mob of workers crashed an outdoor meeting being held by the mayor of Portland and turned it into a slogan-chanting anti-Chinese rally-cum-riot. His role in the riot catapulted him to the head of the anti-Chinese worker movement in Oregon, which clinched the election for him a few months later. But I'm getting ahead of myself here. Let's take this story from the top — it's more interesting that way.... (Salem, Marion County; 1880s, 1890s) (For text and pictures, see https://offbeatoregon.com/2502d1008a.pennoyer-crackpot-governor-690.082.html)

The New Yorker writer discusses his new history of the Chinese in America, and immigrant identity from the Chinese Exclusion Act to Trump.The China Books Podcast is a companion of China Books Review, a project of Asia Society's Center on U.S.-China Relations and The Wire, a digital business platform that also publishes The Wire China. For any queries or comments, please write to editor[at]chinabooksreview.com.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight's show is June 19th. We are all connected. We are talking with Asian and Asian American Children's book authors. PowerLeeGirls host Miko Lee talks with Chi Thai and Livia Blackburne about the power of storytelling, maternal heritage, generational trauma, and much more. Title:  We Are All Connected Show Transcripts Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:01:17] Welcome to Apex Express. Tonight's show is June 19th. We are all connected. We are talking with Asian and Asian American Children's book authors. PowerLeeGirls host Miko Lee talks with Chi Thai and Livia Blackburne about the power of storytelling, maternal heritage, generational trauma, and much more. First, we want to start by wishing everyone a happy Juneteenth, Juneteenth commemorates, an end to slavery and the emancipation of Black Americans after the Civil War. In 1865, 2 years after the Emancipation Proclamation, enslaved people in Galveston, Texas finally learned of their freedom. Juneteenth marks the day the last enslaved people learned of their freedom. Though outright slavery became illegal, the systematic oppression of African Americans continues to this day. We see that show up in almost every aspect of American culture, from the high rate of infant mortality to the over punishing of Black children in schools, to police brutality, to incarceration. We must continue to recognize the importance of championing Black lives and lifting up Black voices. We are all connected. June 19th is also an important day in Asian American history. In 1982 in Detroit, Vincent Chin was at a bar celebrating his bachelor party prior to his wedding the next day. Ronald Ebens, a white auto worker, and his stepson Michael Nitz taunted Vincent with racial epithets. They thought he was Japanese and were angry about the Japanese rise in the auto industry. When Vincent left the bar later, the two men attacked and killed Vincent with a baseball bat. He was 27 years old. Ronald Ebens never did time for this murder. Ronald Ebens is 85 years old now. Ebens not only skirted prosecution, he has used bankruptcy and homesteading laws in Nevada to avoid a wrongful death civil suit settlement. Ordered by the court in 1987 to pay $1.5 million to Chin's family, the Chin estate has received nothing. Lily Chin, Vincent's mom could have stayed silent about the racist attack on her son. Instead she spoke out. She took a courageous stance to highlight this most painful moment in her life. In doing so, she helped ignite a new generation of Asian American activists working for civil rights and social justice. We find ourselves in a new wave of activism as our communities band together to work against the injustices of the current regime. And what does this have to do with children's books? It is all connected. We highlight children's books by Asian and Asian American authors because we want our next generation of children to know and appreciate their own heritage. We want them to proudly represent who they are so that they can work in solidarity with other peoples. Our struggle is interwoven. As Grace Lee Boggs said, “History is a story not only of the past, but of the future.” Thank you for joining us on apex express. Enjoy the show.   Miko Lee: [00:04:24] First off. Let's take a listen to one of Byron Au Young's compositions called “Know Your Rights” This is part of the trilogy of the Activist Songbook. This multi-lingual rap, give steps to know what to do when ICE officers come to your door.    MUSIC   That was “Know Your Rights” performed by Jason Chu with lyrics by Aaron Jeffries and composed by Byron Au Yong Welcome, Chi Thai to Apex Express.    Chi Thai: [00:07:13] Hello. I'm really happy to be joining you, Miko.  Miko Lee: [00:07:16] I'm really happy to meet you and learn about you as an artist, as a filmmaker, as a children's book author. And I wanna first start with a personal question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Chi Thai: [00:07:30] Ooh, what a great question. You know what? I love being asked stuff that hasn't been asked kind of before. I mean, there's a kinda really kinda natural answer to that, which is, you know, family are my people. Of course. 100%. And certainly, you know, the reason why I'm talking to you today, you know, in regard to the, to the book, you know, it's about my family's journey. But I found, and I don't know if this is. Somewhat to do with, you know, being a child of two cultures and you know, being a child of the diaspora that you really have to kind of find your own family too. 'cause I suppose I grew up feeling, I didn't quite relate to maybe my parents in a way that, you know, you normally would if you weren't part of the diaspora. And I felt estranged from my birth country and I didn't really feel like British either a lot of the time. So in terms of like, who are my people? I've gathered those people as I've kind of grown up and it's, it's a kind of strange feeling too. I feel like it's taken me a really long to grow up and to figure out who I am. And I suppose that's why, you know, the people that I have a really, a lot of people that have come, kinda later in my life, I actually have no friends in my childhood as an example of that. I've had to kind of find these people as I've grown up, but it's taken me a long time to grow up because growing up in the UK there wasn't any literature to read about what it was like to be Asian. And British, to be a refugee and things like that. So it just took me longer and I then, as a result, it just took me longer to find my tribe. but I have it now, but it's still work in progress. That was a very convoluted answer. I'm very sorry Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:09:15] No, it wasn't. No worries. It's fine. And what legacy do you carry with you?   Chi Thai: [00:09:19] Kind of an extension to that answer, I think when you're an artist, practicing your voice, figuring out your voice, can take a while. And I think I've only really started maybe the last like five to 10 years at the most really figured out what I want my legacy to be. The things I wanna talk about are really about s tories from the diaspora, certainly, and about community and healing. These are the things I think that are really important to me, especially when we talk about maybe coming from struggle. I don't feel it's enough to be an artist today and just talk about struggle. I want to talk about justice as well. And justice really is about healing, you know?    Miko Lee: [00:10:00] Oh, that's beautiful. Can you talk a little bit more about that healing and what that means to you and how that shows up in your work?    Chi Thai: [00:10:07] A couple years ago, no, not even that long ago, I produced a, a feature film. This is probably the best example for it, but I produced a feature film called Raging Grace, which we called it Horror with a small H and it. Basically took the story of what it was like to be, undocumented Filipina in the uk who was also a mother. And I think if that film had been made 10 years ago, it would just shown how hard her life was, and unrelentingly. So, and I think the reason why Raising Grace is so special is it goes beyond the trauma, it takes us to a place of justice, of being able to speak out for someone who has felt invisible, to be visible for someone who's not. Had a voice, to have a voice and to begin that kind of healing process of sticking up for herself, making a change transforming herself from maybe the good immigrant to the bad immigrant and things like that. I think that's a really great example and I think I read a really wonderful thing. It might have been in a Guardian article where we, so a lot of my work is around, inclusion representation of like diasporic stories. And I think when you have, when you exist in the poverty of like representation, I. the solution to that is plentitude. I think that Viet Thanh Nguyen probably said that, so I don't wanna take credit for it. He comes up with so many wonderful things, and that's a wonderful thing to be able to move from poverty, like to plentitude and that be the solution, is kinda really wonderful. So I enjoy being really prolific. I enjoy supporting artists to be able to do their work. So as a community, we can also be prolific and I wanna support, narratives that. Take us beyond a place of struggle and trauma to a place of like healing and justice and so forth.    Miko Lee: [00:11:57] Your work crosses so many genres. You were just mentioning how that film was kind of a horror film and, and then you've done these kind of dreamy animation pieces and then now this children's book. Do you select the genre and the format and the medium, or does it select you?   Chi Thai: [00:12:16] Oh, I think the story chooses it. I like 100% believe that. I just actually was thinking about this 'cause I was doing an interview on something else, people, often ask about the creative process and I, can only speak for my own. But usually when I get an idea for a story, the general shape of it comes almost like really well formed. There's a sense of a lready kinda what genre it'll be. There's a sense of the character, there's a sense of the journey and all these things. I felt the same about, writing The Endless Sea I knew it would be from the voice of a child. This probably sounds like my creative process is terrible, but it was just. This is how it was going to be. That kind of part was writing itself, or at least I feel that it'd been writing itself like that in my subconscious for many, many years before it kind of surfacing and writing. Like the writing bit is just the tip of the iceberg at the end of the day. there wasn't like a kind of decision about that. the story in that sense was quite intact. So I often feel like the story is demanding something about kind genre and for, for Raging Grace 'cause I've talked about this a lot, not just in listen to me, but other things. But we always said like if you are an an undocumented person, every breath you take is taken in a hostile environment. It's so natural for it to be a horror. So there's not a sense that you kinda decide that it's like that is the very reality of someone who's going, you know, that's their lived experience. And if you're going to represent that truthfully, it will be through the prism of horror. And I suppose that's how I think about genre. the story is kind of telling you what it needs to tell its emotional truth. and I felt that way, with The Endless Sea same thing with the Raging Grace, with Lullaby. And I think you talked about The Promise, I suppose I, with The Promise, which is an adaptation I had less choice about that because that was a book and it was a adapted into an animation. I've heard Nicola, who's the author of the book, talk about that and she talks about like the story coming to her in a dream and tiptoeing down her arm coming onto the page, she like describes it really beautifully. so maybe our processes are the same. It feels that way. there's not long deliberations. I mean, that's not to say the writing process isn't difficult. It is. But that, I've never found the, [genre] the difficulty or the bit that's required a lot of, I don't know soul searching with it.    Miko Lee: [00:14:28] So with that being said, how did Endless Sea your latest children's book? How did that tiptoe into your imagination?    Chi Thai: [00:14:36] This is a strange one because this is probably the closest thing to like, almost autobiographical work. What I can say is like, it's the true story o f how I and my family, which would've been at the time my mom and dad, my older sister, me, how we fled Vietnam after the fall of an Saigon. we actually left quite late we left in 1979 w hen things were tr were getting truly, truly, truly, quite terrible. And, this was very much a last resort. I think my parents would try to make things work, but realized that they couldn't. This journey that we took on these, boats that were made badly, made poorly, that many of which sank has become almost like the genesis story of our family. It's like it's a big, it has a long shadow, right? Ever since you know I, it is like the first story that I can remember. It's one of the few stories my mom would tell me again and again when we, when they see their old friends, it's something they talk about. So it's something that has happened to it to us, but it's such a big thing that it's just, echoed In my life growing up, as I've you know, got older and older, and the wonderful thing about having a story kinda live with you eventually it's in your blood and in your bones, but also if it's a thing that's kinda shared with you again and again, you actually build up this, there's something about the repetition of it, and then every time you hear it told from an uncle or a family friend or from your mom, a new little detail is embroidered that someone adds. So I've kinda lived with this story for 40 plus years and I've been collecting all these little things about it all this time and all that time it was, I think, kind of just writing itself, you know? You know, it was doing all that work before I actually put like pen to paper. Um, yeah.    Miko Lee: [00:16:31] Was there a catalyst or something that made you actually put the pen to paper?   Chi Thai: [00:16:36] That's really interesting. You know, I probably don't mind it is probably something really banal like. I think I probably wrote it during Covid and I had more time. Um, I think there are probably be some bigger forces in place. And you know what, I can tell you what it is actually if I'm, I'm forcing myself to think and examine a bit closer so when this is totally true. So I remember hearing the news about Viet Thanh Nguyen win winning the Pulitzer for The Sympathizer. And it made such a mark on me and I kind of felt, wow, someone from our community has achieved this incredible thing. And I thought, why? Why now? Like, and I was like, well, you know what? It's probably taken our community certain amount of time to come of age, to develop not just the abilities to write, to create, to make art, but also to have possibly the relationships or networks in place to be able to then make the art and get it out into the world. And I kind of felt when he was able to do that and came of age, I kind of felt there was going to be like other people from the kind of diasporic Vietnamese community that would also start to flourish. And that made me feel really good. About probably being a bit older than the average kind of artist, like making their, kinda like their pieces and everything and saying, you know what? My time can be now. It's okay. And I just find it just really inspiring that, you know our community was kind of growing, growing up, coming of age and being able to do these, these things And I kind of felt like it had given me the permission, I suppose the, the confidence to go, “Oh this story that I've been carrying my whole life, which I don't really see a version of out there I can write that and now I can write it and I'm the right person to write it.” And I had just done The Promise so I had a relationship with Walker. I was like, I have a, you know, a relationship with the publisher. I feel my writing is matured. Like I can do this. And so it was like a culmination and, you know, convergence of those things. And, but I do remember having that thought thinking, “This is a good time to be alive in our community 'cause we're actually able to make our art and get it out there now.” I, I felt it was like a real watershed moment really.   Miko Lee: [00:19:11] What made you decide to do it in this format as a Little Kid's Children's Illustrated book? We were talking earlier about how to, to me, this is the first more realistic version of a boat people experience in a very little kid's voice. What made you decide to do it in this style?    Chi Thai: [00:19:33] So interesting. At the same time, I was writing The Endless Sea. I was writing also the script for a short film, which is called Lullaby, which is takes an incident that happened on my boat but expresses it as a film, as a little kinda horror kinda drama, but a kid cannot watch that. It's like too terrifying. Um, and I wrote, you know, The Endless Sea at the same time. And again, I can't, it's really hard for me to articulate. I just knew it was gonna be a kid's book, like, and I knew it'd be written from the voice of a kid, and I didn't actually, can I say I didn't even ascribe a particular kind of value to that. It wasn't until I had started conversations with the publisher they're like, you know, we see like there's a really high, like this is really great that it's written in the voice of the kid. It somehow gives it something else. Something more is something kind of special. I didn't set out to like, overthink, like what was the most effective way to tell this story? I, I think I just told the story as honestly as I could, you know, with the words that I felt that, you know, I had in me to de, you know, to describe it. In the most authentic way to, to me. And like I say, at the same time, I knew, like I knew that was a kid's book. There was another part of that I wanted to express that was really important to me and that was survivor's guilt. But that I felt was like, that was a horror, so that was really not gonna be suitable for kids. So I was definitely thinking about lots of things to do with the same subject of the same time, but they were definitely being expressed in different ways. And again, Lullaby came to me very kind of quickly, almost fully formed. And I knew, you know, it would be a ghost story. I knew it would be the story of a mother and things like that. And I often maybe, you know, I should, I, I should interrogate more, but I kinda, I take these kinda. These ideas, which are quite well shaped and, and then I just like lean into them more and more and more. But they, the way they arrive it, I've kinda, I, I can see a lot of what is already about to unfold.   Miko Lee: [00:21:43] And do you still dream about that experience of being on the boat as a kid?    Chi Thai: [00:21:52] It's, it's a really difficult thing to explain because you know that that happened now so long ago, and I've probably heard the story thousands of times. I've watched all the terrible Hollywood movies, I've seen all the news clippings, I've watched all the archive. I've listened to, you know, people talk, and I have my own memories and I look at photographs and I have memories of looking at photographs. I feel like, you know, my memory is really unreliable, but what it is instead is it's this, this kind of, kind of tapestry of, you know, of the story of memories, of, you know, images as I grow up of hearing the story, like all coming together. One of the things I did when I wrote, I wrote The Endless Sea, is I then went back to my mom and I did a recorded interview with her 'cause I was really worried about how unreliable my memory might be. And I interviewed her and I asked a lot of questions and I said, and I, it was like, you know, in the way I would've just like listened to the story quite passively before this time I interviewed her and I asked a lot of questions about details and all sorts of things. 'cause I really wanted to be able to represent things, you know, as factually as I could. And that was kinda one of my kinda kind of fact checking kinda exercises I did 'cause I was, I was much quite worried about how unreliable my memory was about it all. And you know, what is, what is a memory of a memory of memory, like, you know, especially when it comes to thinking about that time on the boat and the feelings I had. Yeah. So, you know,    Miko Lee: [00:23:34] and you were so young also to    Chi Thai: [00:23:37] Totally 100%. And sometimes, I don't know, you know, is it a memory of a memory? Is it a dream of a dream?   Miko Lee: [00:23:44] Mm-hmm.    Chi Thai: [00:23:44] Or just some, yeah.   Miko Lee: [00:23:46] Was there anything that your mom said that surprised you?    Chi Thai: [00:23:50] Yeah. Um, she didn't realize how bad it was gonna be and she was like, “God, if it, I'd known how terrifying it was I dunno if I, we could have done it.” I think there's a certain amount of naivety involved and I suppose that surprised me. You know? 'cause we know already now how bad it was. Um, so things like that surprised me.    Miko Lee: [00:24:15] and your mom, the dedication of the book is to your mom. What does she think when she first read it?    Chi Thai: [00:24:22] I've got a funny story. My parents, you know, they, we left, they were in their early twenties and I think it was, you know, the escape was hard for them, but settling in new country was really hard for them. That's. That's been kind of their struggle. They had to work so hard, so many hours to kind of, you know, give us a great life. And, I think a lot of that meant they weren't people that could go out, enjoy, enjoy movies, look at art, read lots of literature and things like that. They're very, very simple, very working class. Simple life or working class kinda life. Very much all about, uh, the work. Um, and I remember when I had a, the publisher had made like a mockup of the book and I gave it to my mum to read 'cause I wanted her to be happy about it too, and she's probably been my toughest critic. I think everything I've done, she hasn't really liked, to be honest. Um, and when I gave her the mockup to read. She went, “Yeah,” but she said it in such a way I knew what she meant was Yeah, that's right. You know, that's the truth. That's the, you know, the book isn't the testimony, but it felt like she was saying yeah. It was like the simple kind of approval. It wasn't like a lot    Miko Lee: [00:25:50] That is the most Asian mom's approval ever.    Chi Thai: [00:25:54] It's so funny, like people say to me, oh Chi, it's such a beautiful book. Oh, the writing so lit, like lyrical. It's stripped back, it's elegant. Like, you know, Viet Thanh Nguyen , like God bless his like consults, gave me a comment to put in the book, said these wonderful things, and my mom goes, “yeah.”. You know, it made me laugh at the time, but I knew what it meant. And I also was old enough, I was mature enough, you know, God, if she'd given me that, if I'd been 20 written that I might have cried and my heart might have broken. Right. But I, I knew I had, I've so much compassion, you know, for my parents. Mm-hmm. And people like my parents, what they've been through and, you know, but    Miko Lee: [00:26:38] That was incredibly high praise for her.    Chi Thai: [00:26:40] It was, I couldn't have asked more.   Miko Lee: [00:26:47] Oh, I totally get that. I think that's such an Asian thing. That is so funny.    Chi Thai: [00:26:53] It is, it is. I didn't feel bad. I, I remember showing her Lullaby, um, and she didn't like it at all.    Miko Lee: [00:27:02] What did she say? What is her not like voice? What did she say to that?    Chi Thai: [00:27:05] Oh, she. Well, firstly, she, well, the, the film is almost silent because basically it tells a story. It's inspired by a mother that was on our boat who lost her baby on the border crossing, and I was very much ever, for as long as I knew about this woman's story, I was like, I was very much haunted by it, and I was haunted by, you know, the fact that that's how she felt and her guilt. Over losing her baby on this journey. And I knew, I knew I wanted to tell her story. 'cause one of the things I feel very strongly about is when you are on the losing side. So I'm from South Vietnam, like that's not the, you know, that's not the story that's told, the story is told of who triumphs at the end of the day. And I was just like all those people that we lost at sea, this mother, her baby. The stories kind of aren't told. So I kind of felt really strongly that this was somehow a very creative way to put down like a, an historical record like this happened. And actually I found out after making the film that five babies were lost in our boat, not just one.   Miko Lee: [00:28:24] Wow. So what did she say, your mom say?   Chi Thai: [00:28:28] Yes. So I made this film, which was for the most part, a silent film. This is a woman that's shut down. She barely speaks anymore. She is living with the guilt ever. You know, when she was on the boat before her baby died, she sang a lullaby, and ever since then, she hasn't been able to speak again. And then we find out that she has been haunted by the ghost of her child that she lost. And then a bit too, you know, to kind of free herself from that. She, she actually sings, you know, the, the film culminates in her singing the Luby one last time. S saying Goodbye finally being able to move beyond her Gild and I Griffin, saying goodbye and hoping she's able to, you know, progress. So I made a film about that was largely silence except for this lullaby, and my mum watched it. She went, next time you make a film, you know you need more words. I was just like, oh, I think my heart probably did crumple off a bit a bit at that point.    Miko Lee: [00:29:30] Aw.    Chi Thai: [00:29:31] You know? Um, but yeah. But yeah, it's okay. It's okay because you know what? My mom doesn't get to see stuff like that very often. So sometimes she doesn't have the wider, and this is why, I mean, like, the life that she's had, you know, hasn't been one where she's been able to surround herself with, oh, I'm so lucky. You know, my life has been so different, but it's been different. Different because of, you know what she's, what she's done for us, so it's okay. I can take it on the chin when she says my film doesn't have enough dialogue in it.    Miko Lee: [00:30:04] I love that. For you, have you had conversations with your mom about your life as an artist, and what are her thoughts on that?   Chi Thai: [00:30:16] Well say. So I, so my mom, I don't really like, you know, she's probably not that into it. I'll be honest about being an artist. I can understand why she wants you to have a good life. And I would say for the most part, being an artist is, is a, is a tough life because it's hard to make, you know, the, the pennies work, right?   Miko Lee: [00:30:44] She wants stability for you, right?    Chi Thai: [00:30:45] Yeah, exactly. But she's made a peace with it. And basically what happened, I think all the best story is gonna be about my mom, right? Is that she basically, I, I, um, I have a partner, we've been together for 15 years. Um, he's a really nice guy and he has a reliable job and we have two kids together and i,    Miko Lee: [00:31:08] So that makes it okay.   Chi Thai: [00:31:10] So yeah, this is what I was saying. So she said to me like. It doesn't really matter what you do now. 'cause she, you are already peaked. You're somebody's wife. We're not married. But she told everyone in Vietnam we were married 'cause she couldn't cope with this not being like having kids out of wedlock. In her head. She's rewritten that we are married. Right. She's like, you are married, you're somebody's wife and you mother, it doesn't get better than that. So if you are an artist or if you're a filmmaker, whatever, it doesn't matter. 'cause nothing can be better than that. Right. So she's accepted on the basis that I've already fulfilled, kind of my promise.   Miko Lee: [00:31:46] Wow. Interesting.    Chi Thai: [00:31:50] And she means that in the nicest possible way.    Miko Lee: [00:31:52] Yeah.    Chi Thai: [00:31:52] That she feels like you have a home, you have stability, you have someone who loves you, you know, you have a, a purpose in life, but really her value, you know, the way, I think, the way she measures my value is like, that's how she looks at it. The, the art is something else.    Miko Lee: [00:32:10] Well, I really appreciate you sharing your art with us in the world and your various, um, genres and styles. And I'm wondering how our audience can find out more about your work. Clearly we'll put links to where people can buy the book and let's see, but how do they find out more about your films?   Chi Thai: [00:32:28] Um, so that like, because it is the 50th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War in 2025. Actually the very anniversary of that is the tomorrow, the 30th, April, right? Um, you can watch Lullaby on Altar, which is a YouTube channel. Um, and I can give you the link for it. Rating Grace is on Paramount Plus if you want to, if you've got Paramount Plus, but you can also buy it from all the usual kind of places too. Um, and you know, and we'll see us from all great book stockists, I imagine in, in the us.   Miko Lee: [00:33:07] Thank you so much. Um, I'd love to get, I'd love for you to send me the link so I could put 'em in the show notes. I really appreciate chatting with you today. Um, is there anything else you'd like to share?    Chi Thai: [00:33:19] Um, no, I think, I think that's good. Your, your questions are so good. Mika, I'm already like, kinda like processing them all. Uh, yes.    Miko Lee: [00:33:30] Well, it was a delight to chat with you and to learn more about your artistic vision, and my wishes are that you continue to grow and feel blessed no matter what your mama says, because deep down, she's still proud of you. Even if she doesn't say it out loud.    Chi Thai: [00:33:47] I believe it. I totally believe it.    Miko Lee: [00:33:50] Yay. Thank you so much for spending time with us on Apex Express.Next up, listen to stay, go from dark heart, a concert narrative by singer and songwriter Golda Sargento.   MUSIC   That was the voice of Golda Sargento from the new Filipino futurism punk rock sci-fi dark heart. Welcome, Livia Blackburne Children's book, author of Nainai's Mountain. Welcome to Apex Express.    Livia Blackburne: [00:38:56] Thank you so much for having me.    Miko Lee: [00:38:58] I wanna start with a personal question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Livia Blackburne: [00:39:05] I am Chinese American, and so I carry the stories of my grandparents who fled China to Taiwan, fled that war. And I also carry the stories of my parents and myself who immigrated. To America, and I am, I grew up in New Mexico, so I have fond memories of green chili and new Mexican food. I went to college, Harvard and MIT on the east coast. So I've got a bit of that kind of ivory tower. And now I'm in LA and, you know, my people are, my family and my community, the writing community here. So I, I'm a big mix. Yes.    Miko Lee: [00:39:44] What legacy do you carry with you?    Livia Blackburne: [00:39:47] I mentioned a bit of my grandparents and my parents. What they went through in the war in China, and then my parents and me coming here. the experience of being here in two worlds, coming from Taiwan having that cultural background and also, growing up in the United States. The culture I've been surrounded with here as well.    Miko Lee: [00:40:06] Thank you so much for sharing. Can you tell us about your new illustrated children's book? Nainai's Mountain. What inspired this work?    Livia Blackburne: [00:40:14] The story of this book actually started with another book that is coming out in a couple years that actually I can't share too much about. My grandparents fled the war in China and then my. Parents grew up in Taiwan and I wanted to preserve that family story. My parents are getting older. So I started doing oral interviews with my parents about their childhood, what it was like, growing up. I wouldn't say they weren't refugees in Taiwan. It's a very complicated political situation, but they were transplants to Taiwan, and what it was like growing up there, their daily life. What kind of things they did when they were a child, their pastimes, I wanted to preserve their stories and I got a lot of great material., A lot of that is going into a novel that I'm currently working on. But also as I worked on it, there were so many great details that I thought would be really good in a picture book as well. Also, I'm a mother now. I have an 8-year-old daughter, and she is half Caucasian, half Asian. She has never gone to Taiwan before and I. As I'm writing this, I'm thinking, it would be really great to, I do want to share Taiwan and, my own childhood, home with her at some point. And so I start imagining what would it be like to bring her back to Taiwan and show her everything. And that became the seed for Nainai's Mountain, which is a. Story of a girl visiting Taiwan for the first time with her grandmother. And her grandmother shows her around and tells her stories about her childhood, and the girl through her grandmother's eyes, sees Taiwan, you know, for the beautiful place that it is.    Miko Lee: [00:41:56] You also wrote the book I Dream of Popo. How are these companions to each other and also for audiences that might not speak Chinese. One is a grandmother on the mother's side, and the other is the grandmother on the father's side. Can you talk about how I dream of Popo is linked to Nainai's Mountain?   Livia Blackburne: [00:42:15] Thank you for pointing that out. Yes. So Popo is maternal grandmother, and Nainai is a paternal grandmother. And that is a fantastic question. So I dream of popo is kind of my story. So it's about a little girl who moves from Taiwan , to the United States and it's about her relationship with her grandmother who stays in Taiwan. And it talks about, how a close relationship, navigating long geographical distances about the language barrier that comes up. And that was very much me, Nainai's Mountain. It's kind of like Popo in reverse, you know, it's now it's someone going back to Taiwan and kind of getting in touch with those roots. That, as I mentioned, that's inspired by my daughter. And you'll see in Nainai's Mountain, I specified that the child should be, half Asian, half Caucasian. Because, I wanted more of that representation in the children's literature.    Miko Lee: [00:43:07] Thank you. I, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the artistic style. So you are the author, but you had different illustrators for both of the books and the style is really different. The in, when I look at Nainai's Mountain, which I'm holding here, it's sort of collage and really vibrant colors. Where I Dream of Popo has a different, more. I'm almost realistic, kind of look to it. And I'm wondering what your process was like in collaborating with illustrators.    Livia Blackburne: [00:43:37] That's one of the best things about being a picture book author, is that you get to collaborate with so many illustrators and they all have such different styles, such different visions. Most of the time it's the publisher who chooses the illustrator, although they. Consult me usually. My editor for I Dream of Popo picked Julia Kuo. And she sent me samples and I loved it. And, it was great. I'm friends with Julia now and that book did really well. It was very well known, especially in kind of Taiwanese American, Asian American circles. And so when I did, Nainai's mountain, that was with a different publishing house and my editor. He very consciously said, you know, because it's also a book about Taiwan and a grandmother. We don't want to get it confused with I dream of Popo. So, we made a conscious decision to pick an artist with a very different style and Joey Chou is fantastic. He's very well known for his Disney art. You can see his art in a lot of the hotels and cruise ships. And, he, very bright, vibrant, and I, he's also from Taiwan. I think he did a fantastic job.   Miko Lee: [00:44:41] And have the artistic work ever surprised you as being really different from your imagination while you were writing?    Livia Blackburne: [00:44:48] That's a great question. I don't think they've ever surprised me. By being different. They surprised me in the specifics that they've chosen. For example, I dream of Popo. Julia, spent a lot of time in Taiwan and she put in these great, Taiwan details that, you know, if you're from Taiwan, you would know for sure. There's like a specific brand of rice cooker called the rice cooker, and she has one there and like the giant bag of rice in the corner, and the calendar on the wall.   Miko Lee: [00:45:16] Even the specificities of the food and the trays and everything is quite lovely.    Livia Blackburne: [00:45:20] Yeah, yeah. You know, every time I read that, I look at that spread, I get hungry. So surprise there. And, with Joey, I, I love how he does the different, there's kind of flashback pictures and there's, pictures now and. The thing about him, his color, I just love the color that he put in from the greens, of Taiwan to kind of the bright fluorescent lights, neon lights of Taipei, and then there's kind of the slight sepia tones of the past and he just, you know, brings it so to life so well.   Miko Lee: [00:45:49] I didn't know he was a Disney animator, but it totally makes sense because it feels very layered. It does feel animated in a way and kind of alive. So I appreciate that.   Livia Blackburne: [00:45:59] I'm not sure. If he's an animator. He does a lot of art for the theme parks and like products and the cruise ships and stuff. I'm not sure.    Miko Lee: [00:46:07] Oh, interesting.   Livia Blackburne: [00:46:07] He does like movies and  stuff.    Miko Lee: [00:46:08] Interesting. It looks like animation though. Your book.    Livia Blackburne: [00:46:13] It does look very, yeah. Lively. Mm-hmm.    Miko Lee: [00:46:16] That I'm looking forward to that series. That would be so cute. The grandmother series as a whole little mini series traveling to different places. can you tell us about your new book, Dreams to Ashes? Has that been released yet?   Livia Blackburne: [00:46:29] Dreams to Ashes? That has been released that, released about a month before Nainai's Mountain. Yeah, that one's quite a bit different. So that one is a nonfiction book and it's a picture book, and it's about the Los Angeles massacre of 1871. Whenever people, I tell people about that, they're like, wait, you wrote a picture book about a massacre? Which is slightly counterintuitive. So I never knew about the Los Angeles massacre growing up. And, and, given that I am a Chinese person in Los Angeles, that is kind of weird. Basically, it was a race massacre that occurred. One of the biggest mass lynchings in history, uh, where there was a between two rival Chinese organizations and a white bystander was killed. And because of that, , a mob formed and they rounded the Chinese population up basically. And. Blame them for that death. In the end, 18 Chinese men were killed and only one of them were involved in the original gunfight. It was a horrible tragedy. And unfortunately, as often happened with these kind of historical tragedies in our country, nobody was really punished for it. A few men were indicted and convicted, but their convictions were overturned and it just kind of disappeared into history. And it really struck me that, you know, nobody knew about this. I wanted to kind of bring this to light and unfortunately when I was writing it, it was also, during the Covid pandemic and, I was seeing a lot of anti-Asian rhetoric, anti-Asian hate crimes were going up. And I saw so many parallels between what happened. Back then, because, you know, Chinese people specifically were being vilified , they were being called immoral, stealing people's jobs. And you can see in the years before the massacre the newspapers were saying horrible things and, you know, the hate was just becoming very strong and all that exploded one night into an unspeakable tragedy. Unfortunately as an author, you want your work to be relevant, but sometimes you don't want your work to be relevant in this way. Right. Nowadays I'm seeing so much rhetoric again against immigrants and not of many ethnicities. And in some ways I'm sad. That, this is happening now. And I also hope that this book will contribute to the conversation and show how the danger of racism and xenophobia and hate and what, what can happen because of that.   Miko Lee: [00:48:55] So this occurred in the late 1800s, right? Was it before the Chinese Exclusion Act?    Livia Blackburne: [00:49:03] Yes, it was before the Chinese Exclusion Act. So you'd hope that people kinda learn from these things. And it was just kind of one of the, one of the horrible things that happened on the way to the Chinese Exclusion Act and Chinese immigrants being excluded basically Chinese laborers at least.   Miko Lee: [00:49:23] Oh wow. Okay. I'm looking this up now. And 1882 we know was the Chinese Exclusion Act and this incident actually happened in 1871. Yes. A decade beforehand, Helen Zia always talks about these moments that are missing. MIH missing in history and this is clearly another one of, another time of just wiping out a population.I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit more about how Children's Books can make a difference in the world that we're currently living in, where our government is banning books and you know that there's a narratives that they want to align with a certain kind of conservative ideology. Can you talk about the power of being a Children's Book author in this time that we're living in right now? . I'm really thinking about dreams to Ashes and even I dream of Popo and even Nainai's Mountain, which you would think, oh, they're, you, they're visiting their grandparent, their grandmothers, that would not be controversial. But now when even words like inclusion and diversity are threatened and books are being banned, I'm just wondering if you could. Share a little bit more about your superpower as a children's book author?    Livia Blackburne: [00:50:31] Yeah, that's a fantastic question. We live in a time right now, there's, a lot of hate, a lot of intolerance, a lot of fear of different people groups. And a lot of that I think is because people are unfamiliar with people unlike themselves. They see. People who are different, look differently, act differently, speak differently, and it scares them. And I think the best way to get around that is to actually get to know people of other backgrounds, to see them as human. And I think that's where children's books come in. ‘Cause we don't, children are not born. With this hate of the other. They learn it. But, if they grow up being familiar with people of different backgrounds seeing their stories seeing them as, normal human beings, which, should be obvious, but sometimes it's hard, for adults to realize. Then, I'm hoping, as a children's book author that it will lead to a more empathetic world. And perhaps that's why the government sometimes in certain groups are wanting to, censor this and control the flow of children's books because, children are the most their minds are still open. They're still able to learn.    Miko Lee: [00:51:48] And Livia, tell us what you're working on next.   Livia Blackburne: [00:51:53] So right now I am. Working on a historical middle grade. We haven't quite announced it yet, so I can't say the title or too many details, but it is based on my family history of my parents and grandparents who moved from China to Taiwan after the civil War.   Miko Lee: [00:52:12] Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preti Mangala-Shekar, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tanglao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.   The post APEX Express – 6.19.25 We Are All Connected appeared first on KPFA.

SCOTUS: CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT 1882.  RICHARD EPSTEIN, CIVITAS. 1920 DC

PREVIEW: COLLEAGUE RICHARD EPSTEIN COMMENTS ON THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT OF 1882 AND THE CURRENT TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ORDER TO CHINESE NATIONALS IN THE US ON VISAS. MORE LATER. 1857

What does it mean to truly belong in America?  Michael Luo, executive editor at The New Yorker and author of Strangers in the Land, joins Redeeming Babel's director of content, DT Slouffman, to explore the Asian American experience—from the legacy of the Chinese Exclusion Act to the rise in anti-Asian hate during the COVID-19 pandemic. Drawing from personal stories and a viral moment that sparked national conversation, Luo confronts the “perpetual foreigner” stereotype and envisions a more inclusive vision of American identity. DT and Michael unpack how race, immigration, and belonging continue to shape all of our lives. Send written questions or voice memos for “Ask Curtis” episodes to: askcurtis@redeemingbabel.org Send Campfire Stories to: info@redeemingbabel.org   Resources mentioned in this episode: Michael Luo's An Open Letter to the Woman Who Told My Family to Go Back to China Kirkus Reviews: A Vast History Began With One Sidewalk Encounter  Chinese Exclusion Act, 1882 The Burlingame-Seward Treaty, 1868 Immigration and Nationality Act, 1965 Pew Research: Asian American discrimination in the COVID-19 pandemic Pew Research: A third of Asian Americans changed daily routine due to threats   More From Michael Luo: Michael Luo's Strangers in the Land: Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America  Michael Luo's latest articles at The New Yorker Follow Michael Luo on Instagram Follow Michael Luo on X (formerly Twitter)   Follow Us: Good Faith on Instagram Good Faith on X (formerly Twitter) Good Faith on Facebook   Sign up: Redeeming Babel Newsletter

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Happy Asian American & Pacific Islander Heritage Month! Even though the Trump Administration has eliminated recognizing cultural heritage months, we are still celebrating diversity and inclusion here at APEX Express and KPFA. We believe in lifting up people's voices and tonight on APEX Express the Powerleegirls are focusing on “Asian American Children's book authors”. Powerleegirl hosts Miko Lee and daughter Jalena Keane-Lee speak with: Michele Wong McSween, Gloria Huang, and Andrea Wang   AAPINH Month Children's Books part 1 transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:49] Happy Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month. Even though the Trump administration has eliminated recognizing cultural heritage months, we are still celebrating diversity and inclusion. Here at Apex Express and KPFA, we believe in lifting up people's voices. And tonight on Apex Express, the PowerLeeGirls are focusing on Asian American Children's book authors. PowerLeeGirl hosts Miko Lee and daughter Jalena Keane-Lee. Speak with Michele Wong McSween, Gloria Huang and Andrea Wang. Thanks for joining us tonight on Apex Express. Enjoy the show.   Miko Lee: [00:01:21] Welcome, Michele Wong McSween to Apex Express.    Michele Wong McSween: [00:01:26] Thank you, Miko. It's nice to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:01:28] I'm really happy to talk with you about your whole children's series, Gordon & Li Li, which is absolutely adorable. I wanna start very first with a personal question that I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:01:45] I would say my people are really my family starting with, my great, great grandparents who came here down to my grandparents, my parents, and onto my children because, to me family is. The reason why I created Gordon & Li Li in the first place, it was really to bridge that connection for my children. I didn't grow up feeling that connected with my culture because as a fourth generation Chinese American, I was really in the belief that I'm American. Why do I need to know anything about my culture? Why do I need to speak Chinese? I never learned. As a sidebar to that, I never learned to speak Chinese and it didn't really hit me until I had my own kids that I was really doing a disservice to not only my kids, but to myself. my people are my family. I do this for my kids. I do this to almost apologize to my parents for being so, Disrespectful to my amazing culture and I do it for the families who really want to connect and bridge that gap for their own children and for themselves.    Miko Lee: [00:02:53] And what legacy do you carry with you?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:02:55] Again, my family. My, great grandparents. Really. Started our family's legacy with the hard work and the prejudices and all the things that they endured so that we could have a better life. And I've always felt that it is my responsibility to teach my own kids about the sacrifices that were made and not to make them feel guilty, but to just make them appreciate that we are here. Because of the the blood, sweat, and tears that their ancestors did for them. And so we are, eternally grateful for that. I think it's important for us to continue that legacy of always doing our best, being kind and doing what we can do to further the experience of not just our family, but the people in our community that we connect with and to the greater world.    Miko Lee: [00:03:43] when you were growing up, were your parents speaking with you in Chinese and did you hear about your great grandparents and their legacy? Was that part of your upbringing?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:03:52] I heard about my great grandparents in the stories that my mom told us, but to be quite honest, I wasn't receptive to really digging deep in my cultural understanding of. my great-grandfather and what he went through. I know mom, I know he came over in 19 whatever. I know he brought over all these young sons from his village, but I really didn't fully take it in and. No, I didn't hear Chinese spoken in the house much. The only time my parents spoke it was to each other so that we didn't know what they were talking about. They had like this secret code, language. My experience with my language was not, That positive. we did attempt to go to Chinese school only to be teased by all the other kids because we didn't speak it. It didn't end up well. my mom ended up pulling us out and so no, we were really not connected all that much to the language.   Miko Lee: [00:04:48] I can really relate to what you're saying. As a fifth generation Chinese American, and my parents their ancestors came from different provinces, so their dialects were so different that they even spoke to each other in English. 'cause they couldn't understand each other in Chinese. So it happens so often. Yeah. Yeah. And so I really relate to that. I'm wondering if there was an epiphany in your life or a time where you thought, oh, I. I wish I knew more of those stories about my ancestors or was there some catalyst for you that changed?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:05:17] All of this really kind of happened when I moved to New York. I, you know, raised in Sacramento, went to college in the Bay Area, lived in San Francisco for a while with a job, and then I eventually moved to New York. And it wasn't until I came to New York and I met Asians or Chinese Americans like me that actually spoke Chinese and they knew about cool stuff to do in Chinatown. It really opened my eyes to this new cool world of the Chinese culture because I really experienced Chinatown for the first time when I moved to New York. And it was just so incredible to see all these people, living together in this community. And they all looked the same. But here's the thing, they all spoke Chinese, or the majority of them spoke Chinese. So when I went to Chinatown and they would look at me and speak to me in Chinese and I would give them this blank stare. They would just look at me like, oh my gosh, she doesn't even speak her own language. And it kind of made me feel bad. And this was really the first time that it dawned on me that, oh wow, I, I kind of feel like something's missing. And then it really hit me when I had my kids, because they're half Chinese and I thought, oh my gosh, wait a minute, if I'm their last connection to the Chinese culture and I don't speak the language. They have no chance of learning anything about their language they couldn't go that deep into their culture if I didn't learn about it. So that really sparked this whole, Gordon & Li Li journey of learning and discovering language and culture for my kids.    Miko Lee: [00:06:51] Share more about that. How, what happened actually, what was the inspiration for creating the Children's book series?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:06:58] It was really my children, I really felt that it was my responsibility to teach them about their culture and language and, if I didn't know the language, then I better learn it. So I enrolled all of us in different Mandarin courses. They had this, I found this really cute kids' Mandarin class. I went to adult Mandarin classes and I chose Mandarin because that was the approved official language in China. I am from Taishan, My parents spoke Taishanese, but I thought, well, if Mandarin's the official language, I should choose that one probably so that my kids will have at least a better chance at maybe some better jobs in the future or connecting with, the billion people that speak it. I thought Mandarin would be the way to go. When I started going to these classes and I just realized, wow, this is really hard, not just to learn the language, but to learn Mandarin Chinese, because we're not just talking about learning how to say the four different tones. We're talking about reading these characters that if you look at a Chinese character, you have absolutely no idea what it sounds like if you're, if you're learning Spanish or French or German, you can see the letters and kind of sound it out a little bit. But with Chinese characters. No chance. So I found it extremely difficult and I realized, wow, I really need to support my kids more because if I am going to be the one that's going to be bridging this connection for them, I need to learn more and I need to find some more resources to help us. when we would have bedtime story time, that whole routine. That was always the favorite time of my kids to be really, quiet and they would really absorb what I was saying, or we would talk about our days or just talk about funny things and I realized, wow, these books that they love and we have to read over and over and over again. this is the way that they're going to get the information. And I started searching high and low for these books. back in 2006, they didn't exist. and so I realized if they didn't exist and I really wanted them for my kids, then I needed to create them. That's the impetus, is there was nothing out there and I really wanted it so badly that I had to create it myself.   Miko Lee: [00:09:09] Oh, I love that. And I understand you started out self-publishing. Can you talk a little bit about that journey?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:09:15] I'm glad I didn't know what I know today because it was really hard. luckily I had, A friend who used to work for a toy company, it was all through connections. there was nothing really on Google about it. there was no Amazon print on demand. There were none of these companies that provide these services like today. So I just kept asking questions. Hey, do you know a toy manufacturer in China that maybe prints books? Do you know a company that could help me? get my books to the states. Do you know an illustrator that can help me illustrate my books? Because I had gone to fashion design school, but I had not learned to illustrate characters or things in a book. So asking questions and not being afraid to ask the questions was really how I was able to do it because, Without the help of friends and family, I wouldn't have been able to do this. I had all my friends look at my books, show them to their kids. I had my kids look at them, and I kind of just figured it out as I went along. Ultimately when I did publish my first book, I had so much support from my kids' schools. To read the books there, I had support from a local play space for kids that we would go to. I really leaned on my community to help me, get the books out there, or actually it was just one at the time. Two years later I self-published two more books. So I had three in total. no one tells you that when you self-publish a book, the easy part is actually creating it. The hard part is what comes after that, which is the pr, the marketing, the pounding, the pavement, knocking on the doors to ask people to buy your books, and that was really hard for me. I would just take my books in a bag and I would explain my story to people and I would show them my books. sometimes they would say, okay, I'll take one of each, or Okay, we'll try it out. and slowly but surely they would reorder from me. I just slowly, slowly built up, a whole Roster of bookstores and I kept doing events in New York.    I started doing events in Los Angeles and San Francisco, and through that I gained some following, some fans and people would tell their friends about me. they would give them to their nieces they would give them to their cousin's kids, or, things like that. I knew that I had to do it because my ultimate goal was to have Scholastic be my publisher. That was my ultimate goal. Because they are the publisher that I grew up with, that I love that I connected with, that I was so excited to get their book club, little flyer. I would check off every book that I wanted. And my mom never said no. She always let me get every single book I wanted. I realize now that that's what really Created the love of books for me is just having access to them and, going to the libraries and seeing all these books on the bookshelves and being able to take them out and read them on the spot. And then if I loved them enough, I would check them out and take them home and read them over and over. So it was really, my experience, having that love for books that I thought, oh gosh, it would be a dream. To have Scholastic become my publisher. So after 10 long years of events and community outreach and selling to these bookstores, I finally thought, okay, I've sold, about 17,000, 18,000 books. Maybe, maybe now I can take my series to them. I also had created an app. Maybe I can take this to them and show them what I've done. Maybe they'll be interested in acquiring me. And I got an appointment with the editor and I pitched my books on my app and within a couple of days they offered to acquire my books, which was my dream come true. So anyway, that was a very long story for how self-publishing really is and how ultimately it really helped my dream come true.    Miko Lee: [00:13:08] Now your books are on this Scholastic book, fair Circuit, right?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:13:13] Yes, they are. Well, it's actually just one book. They took the three books, which were everyday Words. Count in Mandarin and learn animals in Mandarin. They took all three books and they put them in one big compilation book, which is called My First Mandarin Words with Gordon & Li Li. So it's a bigger book. It's a bigger board book. Still very, very sturdy and it's a great, starter book for any family because it has those three first themes that were the first themes that I taught my own boys, and I think. It just, it's very natural for kids to want to learn how to count. animals were, and my kids were animal lovers, so I knew that that's what would keep them interested in learning Mandarin because they actually loved the topic. So, yes, my first mandarin words with Gordon & Li Li does live on Scholastics big roster.   Miko Lee: [00:14:01] Fun. Your dream come true. I love it. Yeah. Thanks. And you were speaking earlier about your background in fashion design. Has there been any impact of your fashion design background on your voice as a children's book author?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:14:14] I don't know if my background as a fashion designer has had any impact on my voice. I think it's had an impact on how I imagined my books and how I color my books and how I designed them because of working with, you know, color palettes and, and putting together collections I can visually see and, can anticipate. Because I have that background, I can kind of anticipate what a customer might want. And also, you know, speaking with people at my events and seeing what kids gravitate to, that also helps. But I think there's so much more to being an author than just writing the books. You know, when I go to my events, I have a table display, I have setups, I have props, I have, I actually now have a, a small. Capsule of merchandise because I missed designing clothes. So I have a teeny collection of, you know, sweaters, hoodies, onesies, a tote bag, and plushies   Miko Lee: [00:15:04] they're super cute by the way.    Michele Wong McSween: [00:15:06] Oh, thank you. So, you know, fashion has come in in different ways and I think having that background has really helped. kind of become who they are    Miko Lee: [00:15:17] Can you tell us about the latest book in the series, which is Gordon and Li Li All About Me. Can you tell a little bit about your latest?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:15:25] Gordon & Li Li All About Me is really, it's, to me, it's. I think my most fun interactive book because it really gets kids and parents up and out of their chairs, out of their seats and moving around. And you know, as a parent, I always would think about the kind of books that my kids would gravitate towards. What would they want to read and what as a parent would I want to read with my kids? Because really reading is all about connection with your kids. That's what I loved about books is it gave me a way to connect with my kids. And so a book about body parts to me is just a really fun way to be animated and get up and move around and you can tickle and, and squeeze and shake it around and dance around. And, you know, having three boys, my house was just like a big energy ball. So I knew that this book would be a really fun one for families and I have two nieces and a nephew, and I now, they're my new target market testers, and they just loved it. They had so much fun pointing to their body parts and the book ends with head, shoulders, knees, and toes in English and in Mandarin. And so of course. Every kid knows head, shoulders, knees, and toes in English. So we sing that. We get up, we point to our pottered parts, we shake it around, we dance around. And then the fun part is teaching them head, shoulders, knees, and toes in Mandarin because they're already familiar with the song. It's not scary to learn something in Mandarin. It just kind of naturally happens. And so I think the All About Me book is just a really fun way to connect with kids. I've actually launched it at a couple of events already and the response to the book has been overwhelming. I was at the Brooklyn Children's Museum and even the president of the museum came and did the head shoulders. Knees and toes, songs with us. It was so much fun. Everybody was dancing around and having a great time. So I'm just really, really excited for people to pick up this book and really learn about the body. It's, you know, body positivity, it's body awareness, and it's just a great way to connect with your kids.   Miko Lee: [00:17:31] So fun. I, I saw that you're recently at the Asian American Book Con. Can you talk a little bit about that experience?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:17:38] Oh, that was great. That was the first of its kind and. I led the entire author segment of it. I would say individual authors. There were, there were, publishing companies that brought in their own authors, but I was responsible for bringing in the independent authors. And so I think we had about eight of us. There were Indian, Korean, Chinese, Taiwanese, and we all came together for this one really special day of celebrating our voices and lifting each other up. And there was so much energy and so much positivity in that event, and I. Actually was just thinking about reaching out to the organizers last year and seeing if we could maybe do, part two? So, I'm glad you brought that up. It was a really positive experience.    Miko Lee: [00:18:27] So we're celebrating the end of Asian American Pacific Islander Native Hawaiian month. Can you tell us why this month is important to you?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:18:36] When you have something designated and set aside as, this is the month that we're going to be celebrating Asian American Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander heritage all month long, I think it kind of perks up. People's ears and they think, oh wow, this is a great opportunity for me to see what's happening in my community. I think it just brings the awareness to. The broader community and ultimately the world. And I think when we learn about each other and each other's cultures, it brings us closer together and makes us realize that we're really not that different from each other. And I think when there are so many events happening now it peaks the interest of people in the neighborhood that might otherwise not know about it and it can, really bring us closer together as a community.   Miko Lee: [00:19:27] Michelle Wong McSween, thank you so much for joining me on Apex Express. It's great to hear more about you and about your latest book Gordon & Li Li and the entire series. Thank you so much.    Michele Wong McSween: [00:19:39] Thank you, Miko   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:19:40] Thank you all so much for joining us. I'm here with Gloria l Huang, author of Kaya of the Ocean. Thank you so much for joining us, Gloria.    Gloria Huang: [00:19:48] Oh, thanks so much for having me here.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:19:50] So first off, one question that we're asking all of our guests on our show tonight is, who are your people? However you identify, you know, your community, your ancestors, and what legacy do you carry with you?    Gloria Huang: [00:20:01] Oh, that's such a good question. So I am my heritage is Chinese. My parents were born in China and then grew up in Taiwan. And I myself was actually born in Canada. But then moved the states pretty young and and American Canadian dual citizen and now, but I, my heritage plays a lot into my. Kind of my worldview. It really shaped, how I grew up and how I saw things. And so it features very prominently in my writing and in my stories as you could probably tell from Kaya the ocean.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:20:34] Yes. And I love the book so much. It was such a    Gloria Huang: [00:20:37] thank you,    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:20:38] amazing read. And I'm also half Chinese and love the ocean. Just love the beach so much and have always felt such a connection with the water. I don't wanna give away too much things about the book, but I was wondering if you could talk about your inspiration for writing it and a little bit about, setting and everything.   Gloria Huang: [00:20:56] Of course. So the inspiration for the book actually started I came up with the idea when the world was first emerging from the pandemic and I was seeing a lot of people obviously experiencing a lot of anxiety, but a lot of children very close to me in my life. And they were experiencing it for the first time, which was can be so difficult. I remember when it happened to me and there's just this tendency to. Worry that there's something wrong with you or that you've done something and you feel so alone. And so I remember standing by the ocean one night actually and thinking that I'd really love to write a book about a girl who is struggling with. The anxiety just to be able to send a message to all these kids that there's nothing wrong with them. They're not alone and really all parts of who they are. Even the parts they might not love so much are important parts of these amazing, beautiful, complicated people. They are. So that was the inspiration for that part of the story, the setting. I was very inspired. As you mentioned, the ocean is a huge inspiration to me. It actually comes into my mind, a lot of my stories and someone pointed that out once and I was like, you're right, it does. And I think part of it is that I love the ocean. I love the beach. I love being there, but I'm also so in awe of this powerful thing that, you know, where we know so little about it. It is. There's so much mystery to it. It can look so beautiful on the surface and be so dangerous underneath. I love it as a metaphor. I love it as a part of nature. So I think that was a huge part of why I wanted to incorporate that, especially because I think it also plays well into the metaphor for how some people experience anxiety and you can be calm on the surface, but so much is happening underneath.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:22:29] Absolutely. Yeah. Those interplay with each other and are metaphors for each other in such a beautiful way, mirror the experience. Yeah. I wanted to talk a little bit more about anxiety and particular, as a young Asian American girl the cultural specificity of having anxiety as a young Asian American woman.    Gloria Huang: [00:22:46] Yes I definitely think it's no coincidence. I think that anxiety often goes hand in hand with perfectionism and pressure and I, many people feel that kind of pressure, but certainly a young Asian girl especially with immigrant parents, will feel specific kind of pressure. And so I was really trying to portray that, Somebody once said to me, they were like, oh, I really like how Kaya on the surface seems so put together. She's, got really good grades. She works really hard at school. She's close to her parents, but there's all this going on underneath. And I actually think that's not unusual in terms of that experience for Asian American children of immigrants, and especially if you're female I was really trying to. Tease that out. And then in addition I think there's a tendency, and this might exist in other cultures as well, but in Asian culture, at least in my family history there's a tendency not to really want to talk about mental health. There was a, there's a joke in my family that my parents thought anything could be solved with good sleep and good nutrition, like anytime you had any problem. And I think that there is a, there's a. resistance to feeling like your child can be struggling in a way you can't help them. So I, really wanted to touch on that, part of the cultural pressures at play in kaya's life.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:23:59] And you did so beautifully and it was very relatable, as a anxious Asian girly. And also just, the discussion of big feelings and somehow, having inklings that you may be more powerful than you even realize, but the kind of like emotions that come with that too.    Gloria Huang: [00:24:15] Yes. I think that's a huge part of it is that like when you experience these huge feelings they feel powerful, know, in a negative way. But what I was really trying to get at was, there is also power in accepting these parts of yourself and realizing that They can make up this powerful being that you are, even if you might not love them in that moment.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:24:34] Yeah. I felt very seen by the book and I, couldn't help but wonder wow, what would it have been like if I had read this when I was, 13 or 12 or kind of Closer to the age of the characters in the book.   Gloria Huang: [00:24:45] Thank you so much for saying that it actually means a lot because a lot of my motivation when I do write these books is to write for people who are either of that age or, wish they had a book like that at that age, which is also how I feel a lot about books nowadays and oh, I, I'm so glad that exists. I wish that had been around when I was that age.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:25:03] Yes. Were there any books that really set an example for you that either you read, maybe when you were, in the young adult. Age range or that you've read now as an adult where you're like, okay, this is definitely the audience that I wanna be writing for.   Gloria Huang: [00:25:17] Definitely. I actually love this question 'cause I'm a big reader and so I love talking about books . When I was a kid, middle grade books were my gateway into my love of reading. So I still remember a lot of my favorite books, but I would say a recent book, it's actually maybe not that recent now, it's maybe a couple years old, but a book that really. Had an effect on the middle grade book was when you trap a tiger by Tae Keller and it explores. The kind of Korean experience, but also through the prism of kind of understanding generational grief. And it was just so beautifully done and really made an impact on me. So that was one recently that I thought was really powerful. And, I was like, this is an important book. This is definitely a book I would've loved as a child. When I was younger and I was reading books, there were three books that meant a lot to me. One was called the true confessions of Charlotte Doyle, and it was like a swashbuckling adventure story starring a girl, which was, at that time not very common. And it was, it meant, it was so earth shattering to me to be able to see a female character in that role. So that was great. There's a book called. Homecoming by Cynthia Voigt. And it's an adventure story and it also stars. The main character is a very strong female character and Tuck everlasting, which I just think is a beautiful book. It's also female characters. Now I'm saying it out loud. They are all female main characters. And all about, existentialism and adventure and things that, it was important for me to see. Female characters exploring. But I did also wanna say that when I was reading middle grade books, some of my favorite books included a series called, babysitters Club, which I think that they've redone now as a graphic novel. And that was actually really important, not necessarily for the stories, but because there's a character named Claudia Kishi who. Was a Japanese American character and she absolutely shattered the minds of, I think all kids that age were Asian descent and female in reading these books because there just wasn't a character like her before that, she was so cool and artistic but she had immigrant parents and she had a sister who was very good at math and they didn't get along and she loved junk food and she was. So incredibly nuanced and it was just not something that we saw back then. So that really inspired me, I think, to want to add to the diversity of voices. And thankfully there are many more diverse voices now than when I was reading.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:27:30] I love that. And I also feel like books that you read at that age, they stay with you forever.   Gloria Huang: [00:27:35] They really do.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:27:35] And they shape so much of like your worldview and your friendships. And I'm curious, 'cause I know the book was released this year in January. Mm-hmm. So what has it been like for you on your book tour and what's been some other responses that you've heard? I.    Gloria Huang: [00:27:48] It's been really great. It was so exciting to do the book launch and then just the amount of support from the writing community from, my, my kind of network, my agents and my publisher and editor. And also just readers. It's been really great. But one thing I think I wasn't expecting to love quite so much, not because I was expecting to not love it. I just said, it occurred to me that I would feel this way is getting feedback from, child readers is amazing because, I think as writers we love feedback no matter what. And if it's positive feedback, that's even better. But having a child reach out and as some of my friends will send a video of their. Children reacting to the book or they'll, their, let their child type out a text messages and just to hear how the book hits with them and to hear their excitement or to hear that they were moved or to have them want to know what happens next. It meant so much to me because it was, they're the target audience and to have them feel seen in that way was just, it's just the ultimate kind of powerful feeling.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:28:51] That is so sweet. Oh my gosh. I can only imagine. And so you're talking about the young readers. Yes. But I'm also curious if you have any advice or thoughts for young writers who might be wanting to share and get similar stories out to the world?   Gloria Huang: [00:29:05] Yeah I definitely do. And one of the. Experiences I've had that's been great is I've been doing, some school visits and I go and I talk about the book, but I actually talk about the writing process. And when I do that, I really talk to the kids. As if they're writers. The one of the first questions I ask is, hold up your hand. If you love writing or you think you want me, you might wanna be a writer someday. And a lot of hands go up and I tell them like, what the publishing process is, what are, the different genre options, what you might wanna consider, how you come up with an idea, how you sit down and write it, how you reach out to an agent. And I am surprised at how. Intensely, they're hanging onto every word and they're insightful questions after it. It shows me that a lot of them are really thinking about this. I think for one of the school visits, I remember someone held up her hand and she said what is the youngest age I. Someone has been able to be published. And I thought that was great. Because they're so inspired and you can tell that, that they're thinking for the first time this is a possibility. I have all kinds of advice during the school visits, the main piece of advice is really. Just that it can be a tough industry. writing is a very isolated process usually. There's a lot of kind of obstacles and there's a lot of gatekeeping. And so I tell 'em that the most important thing they can do is just keep pushing through and not to let any, setbacks stop them, because the ultimate goal is to reach even just one person.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:30:24] Absolutely. And what kind of advice do you give around learning how to hone your own voice and also having discipline when it comes to an artistic practice?   Gloria Huang: [00:30:33] Yeah, I think that's such a great question. And I was gonna say this piece of advice is probably more for I. Older writers, but adult writers, I guess I should say. The one thing that I've really been thinking about having published a middle grade book is the very specific and unique experience of writing for middle grade audiences. I think a lot of my friends who write for older audience groups, young adults, adults, They have their own challenges, but one of the things that is different is when they're writing, they are writing for the same target audience. That's also the decision makers. So generally, adults and young adults are picking their own books, and they're speaking to someone who will. Ultimately be the ones to pick up the books where when you're writing for middle grade audiences they're not usually the decision makers. at bookstores, they may or may not be in charge of which book they buy, in. Schools, usually it's a librarian or a teacher. So in some ways you're writing for one audience, but you're also writing a subject matter that you're hoping the decision makers will decide is worthy to put in front of your ultimate readers. So that's one challenge. And then the other challenge is I think middle grade audiences are so. fascinating because they're going through this amazingly unusual time in their lives, whether it's eventful and there's new experiences and that can be exciting, but also scary. So there's a lot to mind in terms of topics, but they are also a mixture of being very sophisticated readers who are on the cusp of being teens. And so there's a healthy dose of, skepticism, but they're still young enough that they. Believe in magic, at least in the literary world. So you, there's a lot of room to play with that. But they also. They sound different. They speak differently than adults. So it's important to get the dialogue, for me I, turn to children in my life, including my own, just to do a check to make sure that the dialogue sounds authentic and something that, people, that kids would say. So a lot of thoughts there, but I think, I've been thinking a lot about middle grade and writing for middle grade, and what a unique experience it is.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:32:26] Yeah, that's such a good point about the decision maker and having the multiple audiences, and I'm sure sometimes the decision makers are reading the books too, right? Or reading it with their kids or what have you. For your personal writing practice, are there any upcoming projects that you can share with us? And how do you stay inspired for what I imagine is like the long haul of writing something.    Gloria Huang: [00:32:45] I'm happiest when I have like several projects in the pipeline. So as soon as I am done a book or it's, outta my hands, it's with my agents or my editors. I'm looking to write another book. And I think sometimes I probably overwhelm my amazing book before agents. 'cause I'm like, I'm ready to start another story. And they're like, we're still looking at the book you just sent us. But I, that's very much how. I am happiest. I would definitely say that everybody finds their own rhythm. I'm in some writers groups and some people are incredibly fast drafters and just need multiple projects at a time. And some people are like, no, I need to work on one project and I need to have it to perfection and I'm gonna work on it for a year or two. And I think whatever works for the individual artist, I think is the best kind of process for them. But yes, for me it's very much about having multiple projects. I think I'm most inspired when I have different projects going at the same time. finding your own rhythm, I think is my advice.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:33:40] kaya of the ocean has, strong themes and storylines about, myths, mythology, Chinese mythology, and goddesses. I'm curious if you wanna talk any more about that and then also if that shows up in any of the other projects you're working on    Gloria Huang: [00:33:54] Yes, the Chinese mythological water goddess that features. Pretty prominently in Kaya of the Ocean is Matsu. And I find her to be such a fascinating character. She is a real goddess who's worshiped still in Asia. I think. Fishermen often will, pray to her for safe passage when they go out on the water. And my father told me about her when I was younger he told me like the side stories and I thought that was really interesting. But it was only when I started thinking about this book that I thought, I'd love to, I'd love to incorporate her. I hadn't heard about her too much in, in the fictional world, even though I knew she was still like a revered goddess. But I thought it was so cool that she was this strong. I. Strong female figure in a space that didn't always have that, hundreds of years ago. And so I dove into her story a little bit and found out, the story is that she was once a human child who loved to read and then she was afraid of swimming in water until she was older and then she drowned, saving, trying to save some relatives and it was interesting 'cause I'd already started plotting out Kaya and writing Kaya. And so much of her story wove easily into what I had already come up with. Like there, I think she has two sidekicks that were one time enemies that she, made into her friends and I'd already had Kaya written with two friends, Naomi and Ana. So I, there was just so much that I felt was kismet. And it was really fun to be able to weave that story together and fictionalize it. But I think it was also meaningful for me to be able to do that because. When I was younger, I loved reading Greek mythology. the stories are beautiful and they've been redone in beautiful ways, but it definitely was an area where I didn't necessarily see myself reflected. As part of my goal to add to the diversity of voices, I really wanted to feature Chinese mythology and bring those stories in so that. Kids can either see themselves reflected in those stories and or understand a new kind of set of mythology and learn about a new culture.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:35:46] Yes. I'm so glad you put it that way because it is, it's such a privilege to have access to, our own I. Cultural stories and knowledge through these, like fun and modern interpretations. Definitely. So I'm so glad that this can provide that.    Gloria Huang: [00:36:00] Oh, thank you. I did realize I didn't answer your other question, which is does it feature my other works? Which so I have sold another middle grade novel and I'm, it's not announced yet. I'm hoping to announce it soon. And I have some other. Books. I'm working on a young adult novel so far. They have not featured Chinese mythology, but I do definitely have a type that my most of my books tend to be contemporary settings, but with elements of speculative. Fantasy, just like the light touch of that and sometimes a little bit of historical elements as well. So they, they definitely all have that similar motif, but so far chi of the ocean is the only one to feature a Chinese mythological goddess.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:36:43] Thank you so much for sharing that. I love that. And I really love the relationship that Kaya had with her two friends and just and then also like the cousin that comes and just capturing like the banter amongst, amongst the girls.    Gloria Huang: [00:36:56] Thank you so much. that was really important to me, I think because at the stage that Kaia is in her life the loves of her life really are her two friends, Naomi and Ana, and they feature very prominently in how she learns to cope with her anxiety and her symptoms of anxiety. And so I really, I think that I really wanted to center her their friendship as much as possible. So I'm I'm glad that you saw it that way too.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:37:19] Yeah. And I feel like, I mean, it truly is the most important relationship. And so it's nice when works of fiction and yeah, works of fiction, can reflect that in such a beautiful way. I know you mentioned that you have daughters or have children?    Gloria Huang: [00:37:32] I do, yes. I have a son and a daughter. And my daughter actually was quite involved because when I first started writing Kaya, I think she was exactly of the age that she would be the target reader group. And so she actually helped Beta read it. She provided a lot of feedback. She became like a cheerleader. She was definitely involved in the process and I think that was really exciting for her. my son became of the reading age once it came out, so he reads it and he's a big fan too,   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:00] that's so sweet. I love that your daughter was part of the editing process too. That's amazing.    Gloria Huang: [00:38:04] Yeah. Yeah. She loves writing and always says she wants to be a writer herself, so it was really special that she got to be part of this and see it up close.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:13] Oh wow. Do you think you would do any collaborative projects with her in the future?   Gloria Huang: [00:38:16] It's so funny that you say that. She always suggests that. And then sometimes they'll actually start a Google doc and they'll say, let's write a story together. And we all have, of course, very different writing styles. And then at some point they both actually usually just start reading what I'm writing. And at that point I'm like, this is not collaborative. You have to write as well. So we've had a couple of false starts, but that's always a joke that we're gonna do that together.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:39] that's so sweet. What else is upcoming for you? I know this is, Asian American and native Hawaiian Pacific Islander month right now, and the episode will come out towards the end of May. So if there's anything else coming up from you for this month or for June or the summer. Yeah. We'd love to hear what you have going on.    Gloria Huang: [00:38:57] Oh, yeah. Today actually Kaya's audio book was released people can listen to it. It was narrated by this amazing, narrator, Cindy K. And so anywhere you find audio books is available. And that was really cool. I've listened to a little bit of it and you, when you write, you hear the words in your head one way, and then it's amazing to hear like another artist do their take on it. So that's really cool. I will be at the Bay Area book Festival at the end of the month of May. There. Doing like different panels and I'll be on a panel. it's about Fantastical Worlds. I'm really excited about that. hopefully we'll be able to announce this other book soon. As you, you may know publishing is a very long lead time it will be a while before it's released, but I think the hope is to release it during, a API month as well just not this year. And working on a young adult novel that hopefully we can go on submission with at some point. But it's an exciting time for sure.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:39:51] Wow, that does sound so exciting. I can't wait to hear about your new projects and to continue to read the work that you put out into the world. Is there anything else that you'd like to discuss or talk about?   Gloria Huang: [00:40:01] I think just to say a thank you to you for, having me on here and reading Kaya of the Ocean and really anyone who's been interested in joining Kaya and her friends on their journey. It's just, it's so amazing, I think, to create these characters that become real to you, and then have them become real to other people. I don't have the words to describe how meaningful it is to me, but thank you.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:40:24] Thank you for letting us join into the world of Kaya for a little bit 'cause it was very fun and healing and all of the amazing things. And thanks so much for joining us today on Apex Express.    Gloria Huang: [00:40:36] For sure. Thanks so much.   Miko Lee: [00:40:38] Welcome, Andrea Wang, award-winning children's book author to Apex Express.    Andrea Wang: [00:40:43] Thank you, Miko. I'm so happy to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:40:46] Happy to have you. I'd love to start first with a personal question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Andrea Wang: [00:40:57] My people are from China. My mother's family belonged to an ethnic minority, called the Haka or the Kaja people, and she and her siblings were. A military family, and we're each born in a different province. And when the Chinese Civil War ended in 1949, they went to Taiwan where she grew up and immigrated to the United States in 1965 or 1966. My father's family are from Guangdong Province, and so I'm Cantonese on that side, although I don't speak any Cantonese. And he went to Hong Kong after the Chinese Civil War. So I am the daughter of Chinese immigrants, second generation Chinese American.    Miko Lee: [00:42:01] And what legacy do you carry with you?   Andrea Wang:[00:42:03]  I carry the legacy of their stories, both the ones that I know and the ones that I don't know yet.    Miko Lee: [00:42:12] Ooh. It sounds like there's lots of juicy things for you still to discover. That is fun.    Andrea Wang: [00:42:16] Yes.    Miko Lee: [00:42:17] Today we're talking about your new book, watercress, can you share what the audience, what the book is about, and then what is your inspiration for this book?    Andrea Wang: [00:42:25] So the book is about a Chinese American girl who is growing up in rural Ohio and her parents spot watercress growing in a ditch by the side of the road, and they immediately pull over and make her enter older brother, get out of the car and get down into the ditch with them and collect this. Vegetable, but to her it's a weed. And so when they serve it to her and her family at dinner, she really is unhappy about this and. For her, picking food out of a ditch has a really different meaning than it does to her parents who survived a lot of hardship in China. And it's not until her mom tells her a story about her childhood growing up in China and spoiler alert, loses a sibling to the famine that the girl begins to understand and better appreciate her parents, her culture, and her heritage.   Miko Lee: [00:43:29] And the inspiration for this book.    Andrea Wang: [00:43:32] So the inspiration is largely my own life. this is a semi autobiographical story. The memory of picking watercress by the side of the road was just something that I couldn't forget, I don't know why this memory continued to haunt me into adulthood. And then after my mom passed away, I started writing down, memories and stories of being with my family in order to maintain a connection to her. When I wrote this, at first it was a personal essay and it just wasn't working. I would put it away and I would occasionally take it out and I would put it away and take it out and work on it again. And it wasn't until I decided to pursue writing for young people that I completely changed the manuscript from a personal essay into a picture book. But at that point it still wasn't working. It was in third person and it wasn't very personal It took me several more years to figure out the heart of the story for me. So it was largely based on my own memories and my mother's childhood stories that she shared with me.   Miko Lee: [00:44:39] Can you share more about the power of memory and the artistic process? 'cause you've written many books and in different genres as well, but can you talk a little bit more about memory and its impact on your work?   Andrea Wang: [00:44:52] Yeah, that's a great question. I tend to write primarily for myself. And to figure out how I felt about certain experiences, how they've changed me, to try and process things I feel like I remember a lot about my childhood. parts of it are very vivid and I like to go back to those. Moments that have stuck with me all these years and explore what it means to me. Like I'm just very curious about why I remember certain things watercress was largely my way of processing my childhood feelings of shame about my family and my culture. I have leaned into that and am still writing stories about identity and the struggle to find our identity. Memory has a lot to do with it. I put myself in every single book.    Miko Lee: [00:45:45] Ooh, that's so interesting. And you're talking a little bit about shame and overcoming that. I'm wondering if you could speak more on, if you feel like memories hold the power to heal.    Andrea Wang: [00:45:56] I firmly believe that memories hold the power to heal. I think that writing watercress and talking about these feelings has really helped me, , heal from, that sort of trauma of not feeling like I belonged as a kid and also that I may have been. Not the nicest kid to my parents, not the most filial, right? And so writing this story was, as I say in the author's note, sort of an apology and a love letter to my parents. So it's been very healing and healing to hear about from all the. People who have read the book and had it resonate with them, the things that they regretted in their lives and hoped to, heal as well.    Miko Lee: [00:46:42] Oh, have you heard that story a lot from adult readers?   Andrea Wang: [00:46:46] I have. They will often tell me about the things that their parents did that embarrassed them. A lot of foraging stories, but also stories about, relatives and ancestors who were sharecroppers or indigenous peoples. And it's just been fascinating how many people connect to the story on different levels. There is that theme of poverty. I think recognizing. That's not often talked about in children's books, I think makes people feel very seen.   Miko Lee: [00:47:14] Yeah. That feeling of shame is really showcased by the illustrator Jason Chin. I mean your young you character kind of has a grumpy look on their face. And it was just so fun. Even in the book notes, Jason Chin, the illustrator, writes about how he combined both the western and eastern style of art, but also his similar cross-cultural background. I'm wondering when you very first saw the artwork and this was kind of young you did anything surprise you by it?    Andrea Wang: [00:47:42] I mean, it's amazing, gorgeous artwork and I was really struck by how he dealt with the flashbacks because when I sold this manuscript, I. Had no idea how an illustrator would deal with how interior it is and, , and how they would tackle those flashbacks. And there's one spread where on the left hand side of the page, it shows the main character's current time and then it morphs across the gutter of the book into. The moms past and her childhood memories in China, and it was just exquisite is really the only way to describe it. It was, it's just brilliant, and amazing. We don't, as picture book authors typically get to work with our illustrators. We often do not have contact with them through the making of a picture book. But in this case. Our editors said since it was such a personal story for me, that he, , felt that Jason and I should collaborate. And so I provided photos, family photos, photos of Ohio, lots of different, , source materials to Jason and would talk to him about the feelings that young me in the book went through. And so the fact that, he was able to take all of that and put it on the page, it was just. Spectacular.    Miko Lee: [00:49:01] Oh, that's so fun. I also understand that you love mythical creatures as you I, and one of your children's books is the Nian Monster, which I love. I'm wondering what is your favorite mythical creature and why?   Andrea Wang: [00:49:15] I. Have been sort of fascinated with the qilin, the, or they call it the Chinese unicorn. Right. Although it looks very different from what we think of a, a European unicorn looks like. Yes. And I think it's because they're supposed to be this really benevolent, creature and Have all sorts of powers and I would love to do more research about the qilin and, you know, incorporate that into a book someday.   Miko Lee: [00:49:42] Ooh, fun. Next book. I love it. you have so many books and I'm really curious about your upcoming book Worthy about Joseph Pierce. I love these as Helen Zia talks about these. MIH moments that are missing in history. And Joseph Pierce was the highest ranking Chinese American man who fought in the Civil War. Some people might recognize this picture of this Chinese American guy in a kind of civil war, uniform. Can you tell us one, when is the book being released and a little bit more about it?    Andrea Wang: [00:50:11] Sure. The book is being released on September 9th, 2025, and it is. A picture book, which we typically think of as for younger readers, but it is 64 pages. So you know, it's an all ages picture book. I think my editor and I would like to say, and it is the story of a Chinese boy born in the, First half of the 18 hundreds in China in Guangdong province, and was sold by his father to an American ship captain named Amos Peck. the reasons for that are, lost to time, right? He left no primary sources behind, there was so much going on in China at the time. Famine war, you know, all of these, Difficult things that his father probably sold him in order to keep the rest of the family alive and as well as give him the opportunity to have a better life. And he did end up in Connecticut. He was raised with the captain's, siblings and sent to school and treated almost like a member of the family except for the fact that he was. Clearly Chinese and there were very few Chinese people in, Connecticut at that time. he joined the Union Army when he came of age and was able to leverage his service into gaining citizenship, which really people of color, weren't really able to do successfully back then. And so. He gained a citizenship. He married, he had a family. He was able to own property and accomplish all these amazing things. Sort of right before the Chinese exclusion Act was, enacted. So he was a very brave guy.    Miko Lee: [00:51:45] It's a wild story and you sent me on a little bit of a rabbit hole, which is fun. Just, looking at Ruth Ann, McCune's. historical piece that there were 10 different Chinese American men in the Civil War, but he was exceptional because he rose to such high ranks. And I just think it's so interesting that, in the 1880 census, he registered as Chinese. But then after the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882, he listed his race as Japanese in the 1890 census. but he was racialized as white so that he could buy property and everything. Yeah. Can you just talk a little bit about that, like talk about code switching? He like literally changed his race,    Andrea Wang: [00:52:26] right. And people at that time could not tell the difference. Similar to now, people often can't tell different Asian, ethnicities apart. Right. I found actual newspaper articles where Joseph Pierce was interviewed about the battles, that the United States was having with Japan or the battles that Japan was having. He was asked his opinion on what the Japanese government was doing because he told these reporters he was Japanese and that was really the only clue that I had that he, Was code switching that after the Chinese exclusion Act was passed, he felt like he needed to protect himself and his family and he must have cut off his cue because otherwise, you know, that would've identified him immediately as Chinese. So that went into the book. I think it's a powerful moment, right, where he's doing what he has to do to survive and ensure his protection and his family's safety,   Miko Lee: [00:53:25] You have a, a really interesting background. Just having No really, I mean, having done all these different things and I, you know, I think you have a science background too, right? Can you talk about the times that we're living in right now, the political times that we're living in, where our government is banning books that don't align with certain conservative ideologies, where right now certain words are forbodden suddenly. And can you talk a little bit about how that impacts you as a children's book author?    Andrea Wang: [00:53:59] it is very disheartening and discouraging that the current climate is against, people who look like me or other people of color. And as a children's book author, we are experiencing a huge decrease in the number of teachers and librarians who are asking us to come and visit schools, to talk to students, which is horrible because. These young people are the ones who need to learn from books, right? Knowledge is power. And if we are not keeping them informed, then we are doing them a disservice. I think the attacks on our freedom to read are really unjust. and. personally as an author of color, I understand that books like Worthy may end up on some of these banned book lists because it does talk about racism. but these are the stories that we need now, and I'm going to continue writing these stories about the Hidden History, And to talk about these difficult subjects that I think kids understand on some level. but if they're not reading about it in books, then it's hard to spark a conversation with, educators or adults about it. So I think these books that I'm writing, that many of my friends and other children's book authors are writing are providing that. Sort of gateway to talk about, the topics that are so important right now.    Miko Lee: [00:55:29] Thank you so much for sharing, and thank you so much for being on Apex Express today. We appreciate your voice and the work that you're putting out there in the world. Is there anything else you'd like to say?   Andrea Wang: [00:55:39] you know, there's so much to say, I think just to. Stand up for what we all believe in and to, I encourage people to stand up for their intellectual freedom and that of their children.   Miko Lee: [00:55:56] Thank you, Andrea Wang. I appreciate hearing from you and hearing your voice and seeing your work out there in the world.    Andrea Wang: [00:56:03] Thank you so much, Miko. It was a pleasure.   Miko Lee: [00:56:05] Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preti Mangala-Shekar, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tanglao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.   The post APEX Express – 5.29.25 AAPI Children's Books appeared first on KPFA.

In 1889, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the now infamous Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited Chinese laborers from entering the country. Writing for the majority, Justice Stephen J. Field characterized Chinese migrants as “strangers in the land.” New Yorker editor Michael Luo says that label persists today, even as more than 22 million people of Asian descent now reside in the U.S. In a new history book, Luo tells the stories of 19th and 20th century Chinese migrants and analyzes the long tail of contemporary anti-Asian racism and violence while championing those who fought against it. We listen back. Guests: Michael Luo, executive editor, The New Yorker; author, “Strangers in the Land: Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this riveting episode of the Cross Examiner podcast, our host returns with renewed vigor to tackle the pressing issues of today, drawing parallels between the past and present. With a focus on the classic film Blazing Saddles, we explore the historical context of racism in America, particularly against Chinese immigrants during the late 1800s. As we dissect the rise of Christian nationalism and the misinformation fueling it, our host emphasizes the importance of education and critical thinking in combating ignorance. Join us for a thought-provoking journey that connects history to contemporary issues and advocates for a more informed society.Chapters:(00:00) Cross Examiner is the Internet's courtroom in the case of rationality versus religion(00:40) Cross Examiner is alarmed by the rise of Christian nationalism(01:31) Rachel Maddow: Blazing Saddles is one of the smartest films on racism(09:20) To hold people's attentions. Especially since the rise of Trumpism in America(10:44) The story of Chinese immigrants in America begins in the 1800s(16:44) Grant Wasinsky: Congress made Chinese exclusion permanent in 1902(21:19) What did the Chinese Americans do in response to this?(24:25) Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco in 1870(29:54) The Supreme Court hears oral arguments today over the immigration executive order(36:24) A federal judge can issue a nationwide injunction on immigration cases(40:16) This case is going to affect 14 different executive orders(47:07) There will be a liberal executive who uses the same tactics that Trump taught(49:20) Cross examiner podcast returns with first episode since presidential electionBlazing Saddleshttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/Chinese Exclusion Acthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_ActWong Kim Arkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Kim_ArkAtheist Community of Austinhttps://www.atheist-community.org/American Civil Liberties Unionhttps://www.aclu.org/Freedom From Religion Foundationhttps://ffrf.org/

In 1889, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the now infamous Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited Chinese laborers from entering the country. Writing for the majority, Justice Stephen J. Field characterized Chinese migrants as “strangers in the land.” New Yorker editor Michael Luo says that label persists today, even as more than 22 million people of Asian descent now reside in the U.S. In a new book, Luo tells the stories of 19th and 20th century Chinese migrants and analyzes the long tail of contemporary anti-Asian racism and violence while championing those who fought against it. His new history is “Strangers in the Land: Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America.” Guests: Michael Luo, executive editor, The New Yorker; author, “Strangers in the Land: Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us a textIn this interview with author Susan Tate Ankeny, we talk about her biography of Chinese American WWII Women Air Force Service Pilot, Hazel Ying Lee, American Flygirl, the Aviatrix Book Club discussion book for May 2025. Buy the book: https://literaryaviatrix.com/book/american-flygirl/Children's Books about Hazel: https://literaryaviatrix.com/book/the-fearless-flights-of-hazel-ying-lee/https://literaryaviatrix.com/book/skyward-the-story-of-female-pilots-in-wwii/The Blurb: One of WWII's most uniquely hidden figures, Hazel Ying Lee was the first Asian American woman to earn a pilot's license, join the WASPs, and fly for the United States military amid widespread anti-Asian sentiment and policies.Her singular story of patriotism, barrier breaking, and fearless sacrifice is told for the first time in full for readers of The Women with Silver Wings by Katherine Sharp Landdeck, A Woman of No Importance by Sonia Purnell, The Last Boat Out of Shanghai by Helen Zia, Facing the Mountain by Daniel James Brown and all Asian American, women's and WWII history books.In 1932, Hazel Ying Lee, a nineteen-year-old American daughter of Chinese immigrants, sat in on a friend's flight lesson. It changed her life. In less than a year, a girl with a wicked sense of humor, a newfound love of flying, and a tough can-do attitude earned her pilot's license and headed for China to help against invading Japanese forces. In time, Hazel would become the first Asian American to fly with the Women Airforce Service Pilots. As thrilling as it may have been, it wasn't easy.In America, Hazel felt the oppression and discrimination of the Chinese Exclusion Act. In China's field of male-dominated aviation she was dismissed for being a woman, and for being an American. But in service to her country, Hazel refused to be limited by gender, race, and impossible dreams. Frustrated but undeterred she forged ahead, married Clifford Louie, a devoted and unconventional husband who cheered his wife on, and gave her all for the cause achieving more in her short remarkable life than even she imagined possible.American Flygirl is the untold account of a spirited fighter and an indomitable hidden figure in American history. She broke every common belief about women. She challenged every social restriction to endure and to succDid you know you can support your local independent bookshop and me by shopping through my Bookshop.org affiliate links on my website? If a book is available on Bookshop.org, you'll find a link to it on the book page. By shopping through the Literary Aviatrix website a small portion of the sale goes to support the content you love, at no additional cost to you. https://literaryaviatrix.com/shop-all-books/Thanks so much for listening! Stay up to date on book releases, author events, and Aviatrix Book Club discussion dates with the Literary Aviatrix Newsletter. Visit the Literary Aviatrix website to find over 600 books featuring women in aviation in all genres for all ages. Become a Literary Aviatrix Patron and help amplify the voices of women in aviation. Follow me on social media, join the book club, and find all of the things on the Literary Aviatrix linkt.ree. Blue skies, happy reading, and happy listening!-Liz Booker

Daniel and Drew dive into the world of tabletop gaming storage, Chinese genealogy, bullet time, and more! - Check out Drew's article, Paper Families, Paper Trails: Genealogy and the Chinese Exclusion Act here: https://www.slcl.org/sites/default/files/2025-04/pastports-052025.pdf Support the launch of Daniel's wuxia TTRPG Wandering Blades here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tonyatplusoneexp/wandering-blades Strangers in the Land by Michael Luo: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/704981/strangers-in-the-land-by-michael-luo/ //SPONSOR  Asians Represent! is proudly sponsored by Hero Forge! Hero Forge offers fully customizable tabletop miniatures with dozens of fantasy species and thousands of parts to choose from, all within your browser. Visit ⁠HeroForge.com⁠ to start designing your custom miniature today and check back often: new content is added every week. //FOLLOW  Website | aznsrepresent.com  Twitter | @aznsrepresent  Twitch | @aznsrep  Follow Daniel @danielhkwan and Drew @DrewQuon on Twitter!  //CONTACT  If you have questions about this episode's themes, suggestions, or anything else related to Asians Represent, get in touch with us at ⁠aznsrepresent.com⁠  //MUSIC Honey Bee by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. ⁠https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Strangers in the Land by Michael Luo is a gripping history of Chinese immigrants in America, from the nineteenth century to modern times. Michael joins us to talk about researching archives, the Chinese Exclusion Act, writing narrative nonfiction, working as a journalist and more with host Miwa Messer. This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang.                     New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app. Featured Books (Episode): Strangers in the Land by Michael Luo The Cycles of American History by Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keefe The Wager by David Grann The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson A Fever in the Heartland by Timothy Egan

This Day in Legal History:  Wong Kim Ark becomes Wong Kim ArkOn March 28, 1898, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a landmark decision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, affirming that a child born in the United States to Chinese immigrant parents was a U.S. citizen by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment. Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco in 1873 to Chinese nationals who were legally residing in the U.S. but ineligible for naturalization due to prevailing immigration laws. After a visit to China in 1895, he was denied re-entry on the grounds of the Chinese Exclusion Act, which severely restricted immigration from China and barred Chinese nationals from becoming citizens.The Court rejected the government's argument that children of Chinese immigrants were not subject to U.S. jurisdiction and thus not entitled to birthright citizenship. In a 6–2 decision, the Court held that the Fourteenth Amendment guaranteed citizenship to nearly all individuals born on U.S. soil, regardless of the nationality or immigration status of their parents. This decision established a major precedent for interpreting the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and reinforced the principle of jus soli, or right of the soil.The ruling came during a period of intense anti-Chinese sentiment, when the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and its extensions aimed to restrict Chinese immigration and civil rights. Wong Kim Ark was a significant rebuke to efforts that sought to limit the constitutional rights of U.S.-born children of immigrants, and it laid the foundation for future interpretations of birthright citizenship.The Senate's vote to repeal the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's $5 cap on overdraft fees is a clear signal: protecting bank profits matters more to Senate Republicans than shielding consumers from predatory financial practices. With a 52-48 vote, Republicans—joined by only one Democrat—moved to dismantle a regulation designed to curb exploitative overdraft charges that routinely hit working-class Americans the hardest.This isn't a technical policy disagreement—it's a choice to side with an industry that routinely charges Americans up to $35 for covering small shortfalls, even when the overdrafted amount is often less than the fee itself. The CFPB's rule was narrow, targeting only large banks and credit unions with more than $10 billion in assets, and still allowed higher fees if justified by actual costs. It was a modest, evidence-based consumer protection measure.The financial industry's immediate lawsuit and the GOP's use of the Congressional Review Act to kill the rule reveal the coordinated effort to preserve a lucrative revenue stream. The overdraft fee fight is just one piece of a broader Republican strategy to roll back protections the CFPB has implemented—protections meant to hold powerful financial institutions accountable.No one should mistake this vote as anything other than what it is: an effort by Senate Republicans to keep consumers on the hook, ensuring that banks and credit unions can continue bleeding them dry in the name of "choice" and "flexibility"—buzzwords that conveniently mask an enduring deference to corporate power. They'll couch these kinds of moves in language of fairness–pretending they ensure lower-income consumers are given access to these financial instruments. A moment's reflection, however, makes it clear that even under their best dressed reasoning they're looking to enable banks to charge exorbitant fees to account holders in precarity. Senate Votes to Repeal CFPB's $5 Cap on Bank Overdraft Fees (1)Yesterday, President Donald Trump issued an executive order against the prominent law firm WilmerHale, following its connections to Robert Mueller, the former special counsel who led the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. The order directs federal agencies to cancel contracts with WilmerHale's clients, revoke lawyers' security clearances, and restrict access to U.S. government buildings. This is part of a broader strategy targeting law firms with ties to Mueller's investigation, including Perkins Coie, Paul Weiss, and Jenner & Block.Trump criticized Mueller's investigation as an example of government overreach, labeling it as politically motivated. In addition to its ties to Mueller, Trump also accused WilmerHale of discriminatory practices in its diversity programs, echoing similar claims against other law firms earlier this month. The firm, which has a long-standing history of handling high-profile cases, responded by labeling the order unlawful and vowed to seek appropriate remedies.WilmerHale, a major player in litigation with over 1,100 lawyers, represents a variety of high-profile clients, including Gilead, Comcast, and Meta Platforms. The firm has also been involved in cases challenging actions taken by the Trump administration, fueling further tensions. Notably, Trump also targeted other firms for their involvement in the Russia investigation and opposition research, but some, like Paul Weiss, have managed to have orders rescinded by agreeing to specific terms, including providing legal services aligned with Trump's agenda.Trump Hits WilmerHale With Executive Order Over Mueller Ties (2)Trump targets another law firm, citing ties to Robert Mueller | ReutersA federal judge has temporarily blocked the Trump administration from enforcing a Labor Department rule that would force grant recipients to abandon their diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs. The decision, issued by U.S. District Judge Matthew Kennelly in Chicago, halts a two-week enforcement window of a January executive order that required organizations receiving federal funds to certify they don't operate any DEI initiatives—even those unrelated to their grants.The case was brought by Chicago Women in Trades (CWIT), a nonprofit that trains women for skilled labor jobs and receives federal funding. The judge sided with CWIT's argument that the DEI restriction violates First Amendment protections, noting that such a rule could pressure grantees into self-censorship. Kennelly also blocked the Labor Department from terminating CWIT's funding under Trump's directive to eliminate “equity-related grants,” though this protection applies only to CWIT and not nationwide.Kennelly's order represents a legal pushback against Trump's broader effort to dismantle DEI initiatives across government agencies and contractors. While a federal appeals court recently upheld a temporary ban on DEI programs in federal agencies and contracting businesses, this ruling suggests courts may scrutinize how far the administration can go in policing DEI-related activity outside direct federal oversight.The ruling underscores an emerging legal battleground over free speech, anti-discrimination law, and the limits of executive authority in regulating DEI efforts.Judge blocks Trump's Labor Department from requiring grant recipients to abandon DEI | ReutersA federal judge has ordered the Trump administration to preserve Signal messages exchanged by top officials regarding planned military strikes in Yemen. The messages, inadvertently shared with a journalist from The Atlantic, revealed internal discussions involving Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and CIA Director John Ratcliffe about timing and targets of attacks against the Houthi militant group. U.S. District Judge James Boasberg's ruling mandates that all Signal messages sent between March 11 and March 15 be retained by the agencies involved.The order came in response to a lawsuit filed by American Oversight, a government watchdog group, which argued that the use of auto-deleting messaging apps like Signal violated federal record-keeping laws. The lawsuit doesn't focus on the national security aspects of the disclosure but rather on the legal obligation of government agencies to preserve official communications.The controversy deepened after Attorney General Pam Bondi publicly criticized Boasberg, accusing him of political bias and claiming he was attempting to obstruct Trump's agenda. Trump himself has previously called for Boasberg's impeachment after the judge blocked a deportation policy targeting Venezuelan migrants—an action later upheld by an appeals court.The White House has not commented on the matter, but the episode has sparked scrutiny over the administration's handling of sensitive military planning and whether efforts to bypass official communication channels undermine transparency and accountability.Judge orders Trump administration to preserve Yemen attack plan messages | ReutersThis week's closing theme is by Sergei Rachmaninoff.This week's closing theme is one of the most beloved and instantly recognizable moments in all of classical music: Variation XVIII from Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, Op. 43 by Sergei Rachmaninoff, in a solo piano arrangement by Schultz. Rachmaninoff composed the Rhapsody in 1934 during his later years in exile from Russia, blending his romantic sensibilities with virtuoso brilliance. The work is a set of 24 variations on the 24th Caprice by Niccolò Paganini, itself a legendary theme known for dazzling technical demands.While most of the piece is fiery and rhythmic, the 18th variation stands apart—lyrical, sweeping, and emotionally expansive. In fact, it's a musical inversion of Paganini's theme, reimagined as a lush romantic melody that seems to rise straight out of the piano's depths. Rachmaninoff himself admitted it was his favorite part of the piece, and it's easy to understand why: it's tender, grand, and full of longing.This solo arrangement by Schultz pares down the orchestral drama but keeps all the expressive power, letting the piano sing with full-hearted warmth. The variation has since transcended its classical origins, appearing in films, commercials, and pop culture, yet it never loses its emotional punch. It's the kind of music that doesn't need explanation—it just resonates.Rachmaninoff, ever the late Romantic in a century veering toward modernism, poured his soul into his music. This variation, placed deep in a virtuosic whirlwind, emerges like a moment of clarity—an unguarded confession in a storm. Let it carry you out this week. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.minimumcomp.com/subscribe

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Grace Lee Boggs said, “History is not the past. It is the stories we tell about the past. How we tell these stories – triumphantly or self-critically, metaphysically or dialectally – has a lot to do with whether we cut short or advance our evolution as human beings.” In our current chaotic time, it feels like we are intentionally ignoring history. Our lack of awareness feels like a de-evolution, as our education department is gutting, books are banned, and so many American institutions are at risk, it feels as though a critical analysis of history is being ignored.  On Tonight's APEX Express, Host Miko Lee focuses on Wong Kim Ark and the importance of Birthright Citizenship. She speaks with historian David Lei, Reverend Deb Lee and lawyer/educator Annie Lee and activist Nick Gee. Discussed by Our Guests: What You Can Do To Protect Birthright Citizenship Our history is tied to the legacy of Wong Kim Ark and birthright citizenship, and it will take ongoing advocacy to protect this fundamental right. Here are four ways you can stay involved in the work ahead: Invite a friend to attend an event as part of Chinese for Affirmative Action's weeklong series commemorating Wong Kim Ark. Take action and oppose Trump's executive order banning birthright citizenship. Learn about Wong Kim Ark and Trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. Sign up to join Stop AAPI Hate's Many Roots, One Home campaign to fight back against Trump's anti-immigrant agenda.   How you can get engaged to protect immigrants: https://www.im4humanintegrity.org/ https://www.bayresistance.org/ Bay Area Immigration: 24 Hour Hotlines San Francisco 415-200-1548 Alameda County 510-241-4011 Santa Clara County 408-290-1144 Marin County 415-991-4545 San Mateo County 203-666-4472   Know Your Rights (in various Asian languages) Thank you to our guests and Chinese for Affirmative Action for the clip from Wong Kim Ark's great grandson Norman Wong   Show Transcript: Wong Kim Ark Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Miko Lee: [00:00:35] Grace Lee Boggs said history is not the past. It is the stories we tell about the past, how we tell these stories. Triumphantly or self critically metaphysically or dialectically, has a lot to do with whether we cut short or advance our evolution as human beings. I. Well, in our current chaotic times, it feels like we are intentionally ignoring history. Our lack of awareness feels like a de-evolution. As our education department is gutted and books are banned, and so many of our American institutions are at risks, it feels as though a critical analysis of history is just being intentionally ignored. So welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee, and tonight we're gonna delve back into a moment of history that is very much relevant in our contemporary world. Tonight's show is about long Kim Ark. There's a famous black and white photo of a Chinese American man. His hair is pulled back with a large forehead on display, wide open eyes with eyebrows slightly raised, looking at the camera with an air of confidence and innocence. He is wearing a simple mandarin collared shirt, one frog button straining at his neck, and then two more near his right shoulder. The date stamp is November 15th, 1894. His name is Wong Kim Ark. Tonight we hear more about his story, why it is important, what birthright citizenship means, and what you could do to get involved. So stay tuned. Welcome, David Lei, former social worker, community activist, lifelong San Franciscan, and amazing community storyteller. Welcome to Apex Express.    David Lei: [00:02:21] Thank you, Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:02:23] Can you first start with a personal question and tell me who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    David Lei: [00:02:31] I'm now on the board of Chinese Historical Society of America. Chinese American History is pretty important to me for my identity and the story of Chinese in America is American history, and that's where I'm at now.   Miko Lee: [00:02:50] And what legacy do you carry with you from your ancestors?    David Lei: [00:02:56] To pass on the wisdom they pass to me to future descendants. But I'm here in America, so I know after a few generations, my descendants won't look like me. Most likely they won't speak Chinese. They're going to be Americans. So. The lessons and values and wisdoms, my ancestors passed to me, I'm passing to America.   Miko Lee: [00:03:30] we are talking on this episode about Wong Kim Ark and as a community storyteller, I wonder if you can take me back to that time, take me back to Wong Kim Ark growing up in San Francisco, Chinatown, what was happening in San Francisco, Chinatown at that time    David Lei: [00:03:48] Okay, this is the end of the 19th century and we have the Exclusion Act in 1882 where Chinese were excluded from coming to America with few exceptions like merchants, diplomats, and scholars. So if you're Chinese and you're a laborer you just can't come. And there were concerns about. Going, even if you were here, there's a process for your return, the documents you will need. But even that was iffy. But for Chinese in general, there was birthright citizenship. So if you were born here, you have citizenship and that because of the 14th amendment. So many Chinese thought birthright citizenship was important 'cause you can vote, you have more rights, less chance that you will be deported. So the Chinese, born in America, right at 1895, formed a Chinese American Citizens Alliance. The concept of being a American citizen was in everybody's mind in Chinatown at that time. The Chinese been fighting for this birthright citizenship ever since the Exclusion Act. Before Wong Kim Ark, there was Look Tin Sing in the matter regarding Look Tin Sing was a CA federal Court of Appeal case. Look Tin Sing was born in Mendocino, so he's American born. He assumed he was a citizen. His parents sent him back to China before the Exclusion Act, and when he came back after the Exclusion Act, of course he didn't have the paperwork that were required , but he was born here. So to prove that he was a citizen. He had to have a lawyer and had to have white witness, and it went to the federal Court of Appeal, ninth Circuit, and the Chinese sixth company. The City Hall for Chinatown knew this was important for all Chinese, so gave him a lawyer, Thomas Den, and he won the case. Then in 1888, this happened again with a guy named Hong Yin Ming. He was held and he had to go to the Federal Court of Appeal to win again, then Wong Kim Ark 1895. He was stopped and. This time, the Chinese six company, which is a city hall for Chinatown they really went all out. They hired two of the best lawyers money could buy. The former deputy Attorney General for the United States, one of which was the co-founder of the American Bar Association. So these were very expensive, influential lawyers. And because Wong Kim Ark was a young man under 25, he was a cook, so he was poor, but the community backed him. And went to the Supreme Court and won because it was a Supreme Court case. It took precedent over the two prior cases that only went to the Court of Appeal.    Now you might think, here's a guy who has a Supreme Court case that says he's an American citizen. Well, a few years later in 1901, Wong Kim Ark went to Mexico to Juarez. When he came back to El Paso the immigration stopped him at El Paso and says, no you are just a cook. you're not allowed to come in because we have the 1882 Exclusion Act. Wong Kim Ark Says, I have a Supreme Court case saying I'm a US citizen, and the El Paso newspaper also had an article that very week saying they're holding a US citizen who has a Supreme Court case in his favor saying that he is a US citizen. However, immigration still held him for four months in El Paso. I think just to hassle. To make it difficult. Then by 1910, Wong Kim Ark had a few sons in China that he wants to bring to the us so he arranged for his first son to come to America in 1910. His first son was held at Angel Island. Interrogated did not pass, so they deported his firstborn son. So he says, wow, this is my real son, and he can't even get in. So this is dealing with immigration and the US laws and the racist laws is unending. Just because you win the Supreme Court case, that doesn't mean you're safe as we are seeing now. So it takes the community, takes a lot of effort. It takes money to hire the best lawyers. It takes strategizing. It takes someone to go to jail, habeas corpus case oftentimes to test the laws. And even when you win, it's not forever. It's constantly challenged. So I think that's the message in the community. Chinese community had push back on this and have pushed for Birthright citizenship from the very beginning of the Exclusion Act.    Miko Lee: [00:09:48] Thank you so much for that. David. Can we go back a little bit and explain for our audience what the Six Companies meant to Chinatown?    David Lei: [00:09:57] From the very beginning, there were a lot of laws racist laws that were anti-Chinese, and the Chinese always felt they needed representation. Many of the Chinese did not speak English, did not understand the laws, so they formed the Chinese Six Companies. Officially known as the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association. most Chinese come from just the six districts from Guangdong Province. They're like counties. However, in China, each counties most likely will have their own dialect. Unintelligible to the county next to them. They will have their own food ways, their own temples. almost like separate countries. So there were six major counties where the Chinese in America came from. So each county sent representatives to this central organization called the Chinese six companies, and they represented the Chinese in America initially in all of America. Then later on, different states set up their own Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association, so they would tax their own membership or get their own membership to pay fees. They had in-house lawyers to negotiate with city government, state government, federal government, and they would raise the money. They were the GoFundMe of their days. Almost every month they were hiring lawyers to protect some Chinese, somewhere in America against unfair unjust laws. The Chinese six company was very important to the Chinese in America, and they were the first to really push back on the Chinese exclusion Act between 1882 and 1905. 105,000 Chinese in America after the exclusion Act sued a federal government more than 10,000 times. This is about 10% of the Chinese population in America, sued the federal government. I'm not including state government, counties nor municipalities. This is just the federal government. About 10% of the Chinese here sued and almost 30 of these went to the Federal Supreme Court, and it was the sixth company that organized many of these winning for all Americans and not just the Chinese right. To a public education. Even if you are an immigrant tape versus Hurley in 1885. Then we have the Yick Wo versus Hopkins case that gave equal protection under law for everyone. Now, the 14th Amendment does have this clause equal protection under law, but everybody thought that meant you had to write a law that was equal for everybody. But in the case of Yick Wo versus Hopkins, it was also important that the law is executed and administered equally for everyone. That's the first time where it was made very clear that equal protection under law also means the administration and the execution of the law. So that is the core of American Civil Rights and the Chinese won this case for all Americans. Of course, Wong Kim Ark.    The concept of political asylum, public law 29 was a Chinese case passed by Congress in 1921, and then we have Miranda Act. If you look into the Miranda Act, it was based on a Chinese case, 1924 Ziang Sun Wan versus the US two Chinese were accused of murder in Washington DC They were tortured, denied sleep. Denied food, denied attorneys, so they confessed. But when it came to trial. They said we didn't do it, we confessed 'cause we were tortured and they won in the Supreme Court, but it was a Washington DC case only applicable to federal jurisdictions. So when Miranda came up, the Supreme Court said, well, we decided this in 1924, but now we'll just make it applicable to state, county and municipality. And then of course, as recently as 1974 Chinese for affirmative action helped bring the Lao versus Nichols case. Where now is required to have bilingual education for immigrant students, if there are enough of them to form a class where they can be taught math, science, history in their original language. These and many more. The Chinese brought and won these cases for all Americans, but few people know this and we just don't talk about it.    Miko Lee: [00:15:35] David, thank you so much for dropping all this knowledge on us. I did not know that the Miranda rights comes from Asian Americans. That's powerful. Yes. And so many other cases. I'm wondering, you said that Chinese Americans and the six companies sued, did you say 10,000 times?    David Lei: [00:15:53] We have 10,000 individual cases. In many of these cases, the Chinese six company helped provide a lawyer or a vice.    Miko Lee: [00:16:03] And where did that come from? Where did that impetus, how did utilizing the legal system become so imbued in their organizing process?   David Lei: [00:16:14] Well, because it worked even with the exclusion act, during the exclusion period most Chinese. Got a lawyer to represent them, got in something like 80%. In many of the years, 80% of the Chinese that hire a lawyer to help them with the immigration process were omitted. So the Chinese knew the courts acted differently from politics. The Chinese did not have a vote. So had no power in the executive branch nor the legislative branch. But they knew if they hire good lawyers, they have power in the court. So regardless of whether their fellow Americans like them or not legally the Chinese had certain rights, and they made sure they received those rights. By organizing, hiring the best lawyers, and this was a strategy. suing slowed down after 1905 because the Chinese lost a important case called Ju Toy versus the us. The Supreme Court decided that since the Chinese sue so much, their courts of appeal were tied up with all these cases. So the Supreme Court says from now on, the Supreme Court will give up his rights to oversight on the executive branch when it comes to immigration because the Chinese sue too much. And that's why today the executive branch. Has so much power when it comes to immigration, cause the court gave up the oversight rights in this ju toy versus the US in 1905. So if we go to the history of the law a lot of the legal policies we live in today, were. Pushback and push for by the Chinese, because the Chinese were the first group that were excluded denied these rights. but the Chinese were very organized one of the most organized group and push back. And that's why we have all these laws that the Chinese won.    Miko Lee: [00:18:30] And in your deep knowledge of all this history of these many cases, what do you think about what is happening right now with all the conversations around birthright citizenship? Can you put that into a historical perspective?    David Lei: [00:18:44] So being an American. We always have to be on the guard for our rights. Who would've thought Roe v. Wade would be overturned? So all these things can be challenged. America's attitude change. Civil disobedience, the Chinese are actually, we have on record the largest number of people practicing civil disobedience over a long period of time. In 1892, when the Exclusion Act, Chinese Exclusion Act had to be renewed, they added this. New requirement that every Chinese must carry a certificate of residency with their photo on it. Well, this is like a internal passport. No one had to have this internal passport, but they made the Chinese do it. So the Chinese six company. Says, no, this is not right. Only dogs need to carry a license around to identify. Itself and only criminals needs to register with a state. And we Chinese are not dogs and we're not criminals, so we're not going to do it 'cause no one else needs to do it. So the six company told all the Chinese 105,000 Chinese not to register. 97% refuse to register. In the meantime, the six companies sued the federal government again. Saying the Federal Go government cannot do this. The Chinese lost this case in the Supreme Court and everybody then had to register, but they didn't register until two years later, 1894. So they held. Held out for two years.   Miko Lee: [00:20:31] How many people was that?    David Lei: [00:20:32] About a hundred thousand. 97% of the 105,000 Chinese refused to do this. So if you look at these certificate of residencies that the Chinese were forced to carry. They were supposed to register in 1892. Almost all of them are 1894. Some of them in fact many of them are May, 1894, the last second that you can register before they start deporting you. So the Chinese. Also practiced civil disobedience and the largest incidents, a hundred thousand people for two years.    Miko Lee: [00:21:15] How did they communicate with each other about that?   David Lei: [00:21:18] The Chinese were very well connected through the six companies, their district association, their surname association oftentimes because of. The racism segregation, the Chinese were forced to live in Chinatowns or relied on their own network. To support each other. So there, there's a lot of letter writing and a lot of institutions, and they kept in touch.That network was very powerful. In fact, the network to interpret a law for everybody interpret uh, any rules of business, and. Just how to conduct themselves in America. They have a lot of institutions doing that. We still have them in the 24 square blocks we call Chinatown. We have almost 300 organizations helping the immigrants. Chinese there with language, with how to do your taxes tutoring for their kids. Advice on schools paying their bills and so on. We have surnames associations, we have district associations, we have gills, we have fraternal organizations, and we certainly have a lot of nonprofits. So it's very, very supportive community. And that's always been the case.    Miko Lee: [00:22:42] I'm wondering what you feel like we can learn from those organizers today. A hundred thousand for civil disobedience. And we're often portrayed as the model minority people just follow along. That's a lot of people during that time. And what do you think we can learn today from those folks that organize for civil disobedience and the Chinese Exclusion Act?    David Lei: [00:23:03] It takes a community. One person can't do it. You have to organize. You have to contribute. You have to hire the best lawyers, the very best. In fact, with the Yik Wo versus Hopkins case, the equal protection under law, the Chinese immediately raised 20,000 equivalent to half a million. It takes collective action. It takes money. You just have to support this to keep our rights.    Miko Lee: [00:23:29] And lastly, what would you like our audience to understand about Wong Kim Ark?    David Lei: [00:23:35] Well, Wong Kim Ark, he was just an average person, a working person that the immigration department made life miserable for him. Is very difficult to be an immigrant anytime, but today is even worse. We have to have some empathy. He was the test case, but there were so many others. I mentioned Look Tin Sing, whose adult name is Look Tin Eli. We know a lot about Look Tin Eli and then this other Hong Yin Ming in 1888 before Wong Kim Ark and so generations of generations of immigrants. Have had a hard time with our immigration department. It's just not a friendly thing we do here. And you know, we're all descendants of immigrants unless you're a Native American. Like I mentioned Look Tin Sing, who was the first case that I could find. For birthright citizenship. His mother was Native American, but Native American didn't even get to be citizens until 1924. You know, that's kind of really strange. But that was the case.    Miko Lee: [00:24:50] That's very absurd in our world.    David Lei: [00:24:52] Yes, Chinatown is where it is today because of Look Tin Sing, his adult name, Look Tin Eli. He saved Chinatown after the earthquake. He's the one that organized all the business people to rebuild Chinatown like a fantasy Chinese land Epcot center with all the pagoda roofs, and he's the one that saved Chinatown. Without him and his Native American mother, we would've been moved to Hunter's Point after the earthquake. He later on became president of the China Bank and also president of the China Mayo Steamship Line. So he was an important figure in Chinese American history, but he had to deal with immigration.   Miko Lee: [00:25:39] David Lei, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us. I appreciate hearing this story and folks can find out when you are part of a panel discussion for Wong Kim Ark week, right?    David Lei: [00:25:50] Yes.    Miko Lee: [00:25:51] Great. We will be able to see you there. Thank you so much for being on Apex Express. Annie Lee, managing director of Policy at Chinese for affirmative action. Welcome to Apex Express.    Annie Lee: [00:26:01] Thank you so much for having me Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:26:02] I wanna just start with this, a personal question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Annie Lee: [00:26:10] I am the daughter of monolingual working class Chinese immigrants. And so I would say my people hail from Southern China and were able to come to the United States where I was born and was allowed to thrive and call this place home. I do this work at Chinese for Affirmative Action on their behalf and for other folks like them.    Miko Lee: [00:26:31] Thanks Annie, Today we're recording on March 17th, and I'm noting this because as we know, things are changing so quickly in this chaotic administration. By the time this airs on Thursday, things might change. So today's March 17th. Can you as both an educator and a lawyer, give me a little bit of update on where birthright citizenship, where does it stand legally right now?    Annie Lee: [00:26:55] As an educator and a lawyer, I wanna situate us in where birthright citizenship lives in the law, which is in the 14th Amendment. So the 14th Amendment has a birthright citizenship clause, which is very clear, and it states that people who were born in the United States, in subject to the laws thereof are United States citizens. The reason. This clause was explicitly added into the 14th Amendment, was because of chattel slavery in the United States and how this country did not recognize the citizenship of enslaved African Americans for generations. And so after the Civil War and the Union winning that war and the ends of slavery . We had to make African Americans citizens, they had to be full citizens in the eye of the law. And that is why we have the 14th Amendment. And that clause of the 14th Amendment was later litigated all the way to the Supreme Court by Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco, like me, two Chinese immigrant parents. When he left the United States, he went to China to visit his family. He tried to come back. They wouldn't let him in. and he said, I am a citizen because I was born in the United States and this clause in your 14th amendment, our 14th amendment says that I'm a citizen. It went all the way to Supreme Court and the Supreme Court agreed with Wong Kim Ark. Does not matter your parents' citizenship status. Everyone born in the United States is a US citizen, except for a very, very narrow set of exceptions for the kids of foreign diplomats that really is not worth getting into. Everyone is born. Everyone who's born in the United States is a citizen. Okay? So then you all know from Trump's executive order on day one of his second presidency that he is attempting to upends this very consistent piece of law, and he is using these fringe, outlandish legal arguments that we have never heard before and has never merited any discussion because it is just. Facially incorrect based on the law and all of the interpretation of the 14th amendment after that amendment was ratified. So he is using that to try to upend birthright citizenship. There have been a number of lawsuits. Over 10 lawsuits from impacted parties, from states and there have been three federal judges in Maryland, Washington State, and New Hampshire, who have issued nationwide injunctions to stop the executive order from taking effect. That means that despite what Trump says in his executive order. The birthright citizenship clause remains as it is. So any child born today in the United States is still a citizen. The problem we have is that despite what three judges now issuing a nationwide injunction, the Trump's government has now sought assistance from the Supreme Court to consider his request to lift the nationwide pause on his executive order. So the justices, have requested filings from parties by early April, to determine whether or not a nationwide injunction is appropriate. This is extraordinary. This is not the way litigation works in the United States. Usually you let the cases proceed. In the normal process, which goes from a district court to an appeals court, and then eventually to the Supreme Court if it gets appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court. This is very different from the normal course of action and I think very troubling.    Miko Lee: [00:30:36] So can you talk a little bit about that? I know we constantly say in this administration it's unprecedented, but talk about how there's three different states that have actually filed this injunction. , how typical is that for then it or it to then go to the Supreme Court?    Annie Lee: [00:30:53] Just to clarify, it's not three different states. It's judges in three different states. In fact, more than many, many states, 18 more than 18 states. There have been two lawsuits related, brought by states one that California was a part of that had multiple states over 18 states as well as San Francisco and District of Columbia. Then there was another lawsuit brought by another set of states. and so many states are opposed to this, for different reasons. I find their complaints to be very, very compelling. Before I get into the fact that multiple judges have ruled against the Trump administration, I did want to explain that the reason states care about this is because birthright citizenship is not an immigration issue. Birthright citizenship is just a fundamental issue of impacting everyone, and I really want people to understand this. If you are white and born in the United States, you are a birthright citizen. If you are black and born in the United States, you are a birthright citizen. It is a fallacy to believe that birthright citizenship only impacts immigrants. That is not true. I am a mother and I gave birth to my second child last year, so I've been through this process. Every person who gives birth in the United States. You go to the hospital primarily, they talk to you after your child is born about how to get a social security card for your child. All you have to do is have your child's birth certificate. That is how every state in this country processes citizenship and how the federal government processes citizenship. It is through a birth certificate, and that is all you need. So you go to your health department in your city, you get the birth certificate, you tell, then you get your social security card. That is how everyone does it. If you change this process, it will impact every state in this country and it will be very, very cumbersome. Which is why all of these states, attorneys general, are up in arms about changing birthright citizenship. It is just the way we function. That again applies to re regardless of your parents' immigration status. This is an issue that impacts every single American. Now, to your question as to what does it mean if multiple judges in different states, in different federal district courts have all ruled against. Donald Trump, I think it really means that the law is clear. You have judges who ha are Reagan appointees saying that the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th amendment is crystal clear. It has, it is clear in terms of the text. If you are a textualist and you read exactly what the text says, if you believe in the context of, The 14th Amendment. If you look at the judicial history and just how this clause has been interpreted since ratification, like everything is consistent, this is not an area of law that has any gray area. And you see that because different judges in different district courts in Maryland, in Washington, in New Hampshire all have cited against Donald Trump.    Miko Lee: [00:33:54] So what is the intention of going to the Supreme Court?    Annie Lee: [00:33:59] I mean, he is trying to forum shop. He's trying to get a court that he believes will favor his interpretation and that is why the right has spent the last half century stacking federal courts. And that is why Mitch McConnell did not let Barack Obama replace Antonin Scalia. The composition of the Supreme Court is. So, so important, and you can see it at times like this.    Miko Lee: [00:34:28] But so many of the conservatives always talk about being constitutionalists, like really standing for the Constitution. So how do those things line up?   Annie Lee: [00:34:38] Oh, Miko, that's a great question. Indeed, yes, if they were the textualist that they say they are, this is a pretty clear case, but, Law is not as cut and dry as people think it is. It is obviously motivated by politics and that means law is subject to interpretation.   Miko Lee: [00:34:59] Annie, thank you so much for this breakdown. Are there any things that you would ask? Are people that are listening to this, how can they get involved? What can they do?    Annie Lee: [00:35:09] I would recommend folks check out StopAAPIHate. We are having monthly town halls as well as weekly videos to help break down what is happening. There's so much news and misinformation out there but we are trying to explain everything to everyone because these anti-immigration. Policies that are coming out be, this is anti-Asian hate and people should know that. You can also check out resources through Chinese for affirmative action. Our website has local resources for those of you who are in the Bay Area, including the rapid response lines for bay Area counties if you need any services, if you. See ICE. , if you want to know where their ICE is in any particular location, please call your rapid response line and ask them for that verifiable information. Thank you.    Miko Lee: [00:36:00] Thank you so much, Annie Lee for joining us today on Apex.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:36:04] You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org.   Miko Lee: [00:36:23] Welcome, Nicholas Gee from Chinese for affirmative action. Welcome to Apex Express.    Nicholas Gee: [00:36:29] Thanks so much, Miko. Glad to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:36:31] I'm so glad that you could join us on the fly. I wanted to first just start by asking you a personal question, which is for you to tell me who you are,, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you.   Nicholas Gee: [00:36:46] I'll start off by saying Miko, thanks so much for having me. My name is Nicholas Gee and I am a third and or fourth generation Chinese American, born and raised in Houston, Texas. And for me, what that means is, is that my great-great-grandparents and great-grandparents migrated from Southern China, fleeing war and famine and looking for opportunity in the middle of the early, like 19 hundreds. And they wanted to start an opportunity here for future generations like me. My people are my family who migrated here over a hundred years ago. who were settling to start a new life. My people are also the people that I advocate with, the Language Access network of San Francisco, the Immigrant Parent Voting Collaborative, my colleagues at Chinese for affirmative action and stop AAPI hate. I think about my people as the people that I'm advocating with on the ground day to day asking and demanding for change.   Miko Lee: [00:37:41] Thank you. And what legacy do you carry with you?    Nicholas Gee: [00:37:45] I carry the legacy of my elders, particularly my grandparents who immigrated here in around the 1940s or so. And when I think about their legacy, I think a lot about the legacy of immigration, what it means to be here, what it means to belong, and the fight for advocacy and the work that I do today.    Miko Lee: [00:38:05] Thanks so much, Nick, and we're here doing this show all about Wong Kim Ark, and I know Chinese for affirmative action has planned this whole week-long celebration to bring up as we're talking about legacy, the legacy of Wong Kim Ark. Can you talk about how this one week celebration came to be and what folks can expect?    Nicholas Gee: [00:38:26] Yeah. As folks may know we are in the midst of many executive orders that have been in place and one of them being the executive order to end birthright citizenship. And Wong Kim Ark was actually born and raised in San Francisco's Chinatown, particularly on seven. 51 Sacramento Street. In the heart of the community and local partners here in this city, we're really trying to figure out how do we advocate and protect birthright citizenship? How do we bring momentum to tell the story of Wong Kim Ark in a moment when birthright citizenship is, in the process of being removed And so we really wanted to create some momentum around the storytelling, around the legacy of Wong Kim Ark, but also the legal implications and what it means for us to advocate and protect for birthright citizenship. And so I joined a couple of our local partners and particularly our team at Chinese for affirmative action to develop and create the first ever Wong Kim Ark Week. Officially known as born in the USA and the Fight for Citizenship, a week long series of events, specifically to honor the 127th anniversary of the Landmark Supreme Court case, US versus Wong Kim Ark, which affirmed birthright citizenship for all in the United States.    Miko Lee: [00:39:44] What will happen during this week-long celebration?   Nicholas Gee: [00:39:48] We have several scheduled events to raise awareness, mobilize the community, and really to stand up for the rights of all immigrants and their families. One is an incredible book Talk in conversation with author and activist Bianca Boutte. Louie, who recently authored a book called Unassimilable. And she tells a personal narrative and provides a sharp analysis for us to think about race and belonging and solidarity in America, particularly through an Asian American lens. This event is hosted by the Chinese Historical Society of America. Following. We have a live in-person community symposium on Wong Kim Ark legacy and the struggle for citizenship. There'll be a powerful community conversation with legal advocates, storytellers, movement builders, to have a dynamic conversation on the impact of birthright citizenship. Who is Wong Kim Ark? What is his enduring legacy and how people can join us for the ongoing struggle for justice? And you know, we actually have a special guest, Norman Wong, who is the great grandson of Wong Kim Ark. He'll be joining us for this special event. We have a couple of more events. One is a Chinatown History and Art Tour hosted by Chinese Culture Center, this is a small group experience where community members can explore Chinatown's vibrant history, art, and activism, and particularly we'll learn about the legacy of Wong Kim Ark and then lastly, we have a in-person press conference that's happening on Friday, which is we're gonna conclude the whole week of, Wong Kim Ark with a birthright, citizenship resolution and a Wong Kim Ark dedication. And so we'll be celebrating his enduring impact on Birthright citizenship and really these ongoing efforts to protect, our fundamental right. and the San Francisco Public Library is actually hosting an Asian American and Pacific Islander book display at the North Beach campus and they'll be highlighting various books and authors and titles inspired by themes of migration, community, and resilience. So those are our scheduled, events We're welcoming folks to join and folks can register, and check out more information at casf.org/WongKimArk    Miko Lee: [00:42:04] Thanks so much and we will post a link to that in our show notes. I'm wondering how many of those are in Chinese as well as English?    Nicholas Gee: [00:42:13] That is a fantastic question, Miko. We currently have the community symposium on Wong Kim Ark legacy in the struggle for citizenship. This event will have live interpretation in both Mandarin and Cantonese.    Miko Lee: [00:42:46] What would you like folks to walk away with? An understanding of what.    Nicholas Gee: [00:42:30] We really want people to continue to learn about the legacy of birthright citizenship and to become an advocate with us. We also have some information on our website, around what you can do to protect birthright citizenship. As an advocate, we are always thinking about how do we get people involved, to think about civic engagement intentional education and to tie that back to our advocacy. And so we have a couple of ways that we're inviting people to take action with us. One is to invite a friend to consider attending one of our events. If you're based here in the San Francisco Bay area or if you're online, join us for the book Talk with Bianca. , two, we're inviting folks to take action and oppose the executive order to ban birthright citizenship. Chinese for affirmative action has. A call to action where we can actually send a letter to petition , to oppose this executive order to send a message directly to our congressman or woman. and lastly, you know, we're asking people to learn about Wong Kim Ark as a whole, and to learn about the impacts of birthright citizenship. My hope is that folks walk away with more of an understanding of what does it mean here to be an advocate? What does it mean to take action across the community and really to communicate this is what resilience will look like in our community    Miko Lee: [00:43:44] Nick Gee, thank you so much for joining me on Apex Express. It was great to hear how people can get involved in the Wong Kim Ark week and learn more about actions and how they can get involved. We appreciate the work you're doing.    Nicholas Gee: [00:43:56] Thanks so much Miko, and I'm excited to launch this.   Miko Lee: [00:43:58] Welcome, Reverend Deb Lee, executive Director of Interfaith Movement for Human Integrity and part of the Network on Religion and justice. Thank you so much for coming on Apex Express.    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:44:09] Great to be here. Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:44:11] I would love you just personally to tell me who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Rev. Deb Lee: [00:44:17] Wow. Well, my people are people in the Chinese diaspora. My family's been in diaspora for seven generations, from southern China to southeast to Asia. and then eventually to the United States. What I carry with me is just a huge sense of resistance and this idea of like, we can survive anywhere and we take our love and our family and our ancestor we gotta carry it with us. We don't always have land or a place to put it down into the ground, and so we carry those things with us. , that sense of resistance and resilience.    Miko Lee: [00:44:56] Thank you so much. I relate to that so much as a fifth generation Chinese American. To me, it's really that sense of resilience is so deep and powerful, and I'm wondering as a person from the faith community, if you could share about the relevance of Wong Kim Ark and Birthright citizenship.   Rev. Deb Lee: [00:45:12] Yeah, Wong Kim Ark is critical because he was somebody who really fought back against racist laws and really asserted his right to be part of this country, his right to have the Constitution apply to him too. I'm just so grateful for him and so many of the other Chinese Americans who fought back legally and resisted against in that huge wave of period of Chinese exclusion to create some of the really important immigration laws that we have today. I wouldn't be a citizen without birthright citizenship myself. Wong Kim Ark really established that every person who is born on this soil has a right to constitutional protection, has a right to be a citizen. And in fact, the Constitution in the 14th Amendment also applies to let equal treatment for everyone here, everyone who is here. You don't even have to be a citizen for the constitutional rights. And the Fourth Amendment, the fifth Amendment, the first amendment to apply to you. And those things are so under attack right now. It's so important to establish the equality. Of every person and the right for people here in this country to have safety and belonging, that everyone here deserves safety and belonging.    Miko Lee: [00:46:24] Thank you so much for lifting up that activist history. as, a person who was raised in a theological setting at a seminary, I was really raised around this ethos of love as an active tool and a way of fighting for civil rights, fighting for things that we believe in. And I'm wondering if you could talk about how you see that playing out in today. And especially as you know, this Trump regime has had such incredible impacts on immigrants and on so much of our activist history. I'm wondering if you have thoughts on that?    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:47:00] Well, so much of the civil rights history in this country, you know, going back to like the activism of Chinese Americans to establish some of those civil rights. You know, it goes back to this idea of like, who is fully human, who can be fully human, whose humanity will be fully recognized? And so I think that's what's connects back to my faith and connects back to faith values of the sacredness of every person, the full humanity, the full participation, the dignity. And so I think, Wong Kim Ark and the other, like Chinese American activists, they were fighting for like, you know, we don't wanna just be, we're gonna just gonna be laborers. We're not just going to be people who you can, Bring in and kick out whenever you want, but like, we want to be fully human and in this context of this nation state, that means being fully citizens.And so I think that that struggle and that striving to say we want that full humanity to be recognized, that is a fundamental kind of belief for many faith traditions, which, you know, speak to the radical equality of all people and the radical dignity of all people, that can't be taken away, but that has to really be recognized. What's under attack right now is. So much dehumanization, stigmatization of people, you know, based on race, based on class, based on gender, based on what country people were born in, what papers they carry, you know, if they ever had contact, prior contact with the law, like all these things. You know, are immediately being used to disregard someone's humanity. And so I think those of us who come from a faith tradition or who just share that kind of sense of, value and, deep humanism in other people, that's where we have to root ourselves in this time in history and really being, you know, we are going to defend one another's humanity and dignity, at all costs.   Miko Lee: [00:48:55] Thank you for that. I'm wondering if there are other lessons that we can learn from Wong Kim Ark, I mean, the time when he fought back against, this was so early in 1894, as you mentioned, the Chinese exclusion acts and I'm wondering if there are other lessons that we can learn from him in, in our time when we are seeing so many of our rights being eroded.   Rev. Deb Lee: [00:49:17] I think that there's so many ways, that we think about how did people organize then like, you know, it's challenging to organize now, but if you can imagine organizing then, and I'm thinking, you know, when Chinese people were required to carry identification papers and you know, on mass they refused to do that and they. Practice, like a form of civil disobedience. And I think we're at this time now, like the Trump administration's telling anybody here who's unauthorized to come forward and to register well, I think people need to think twice about that. And people are, there are many other things that they're trying to impose on the immigrant community and I think one like lesson is like, how do people survive through a period of exclusion and we are today in a period of exclusion. That really goes back to the mid 1980s, when there was, last, a significant immigration reform that created a pathway to citizenship. Only for about 3 million people. But after that, since that time in the mid 1980s, there has been no other pathways to citizenship, no other forms of amnesty, no other ways for people to fix their status.So in fact, we are already in another 40 year period of exclusion again. And so one of those lessons is how do people survive this period? Like right, and left. They're taking away all the laws and protections that we had in our immigration system. They were very narrow already. Now even those are being eliminated and any form of compassion or discretion or leniency or understanding has been removed. So I think people are in a period of. Survival. How do we survive and get through? And a lot of the work that we're doing on sanctuary right now we have a sanctuary people campaign, a sanctuary congregations campaign is how do we walk alongside immigrants to whom there is no path. There is no right way. there is no opening right now. But walk with them and help support them because right now they're trying to squeeze people so badly that they will self deport. And leave on their own. This is part of a process of mass expulsion but if people really believe that they want to stay and be here, how do we help support people to get through this period of exclusion until there will be another opening? And I believe there will be like our, our history kind of spirals in and out, and sometimes there are these openings and that's something I take from the faith communities. If you look at Chinese American history in this country, the role that faith communities played in walking with the immigrant community and in supporting them, and there's many stories that help people get through that period of exclusion as well.   Miko Lee: [00:51:52] Deb, I'm wondering what you would say to folks. I'm hearing from so many people [say] I can't read the news. It's too overwhelming. I don't wanna get involved. I just have to take care of myself. And so I'm just waiting. And even James Carville, the political opponent, say we gotta play dead for a few years. What are your thoughts on this?    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:52:11] Well, we can't play totally dead. I wish the Democrats wouldn't be playing dead, but I think that a person of faith, we have to stay present we don't really have the option to check out and we actually have to be in tune with the suffering. I think it would be irresponsible for us to. You know, turn a blind eye to the suffering. And I wanna encourage people that actually opportunities to walk with people who are being impacted and suffering can actually be deeply, fulfilling and can help give hope and give meaning. And there are people who are looking for solidarity right now. We are getting a lot of calls every week for someone who just wants them, wants someone to go to their court or go to the ice, check-in with them, and literally just like walk three blocks down there with them and wait for them. To make sure they come out. And if they don't come out to call the rapid response hotline, it doesn't take much. But it's a huge act like this is actually what some of the immigrant communities are asking for, who are millions of people who are under surveillance right now and have to report in. So those small acts of kindness can be deeply rewarding in this. Sea of overwhelming cruelty. And I think we have an obligation to find something that we can do. , find a way, find a person, find someone that we can connect to support and be in solidarity with and think about people in our past. Who have accompanied us or accompanied our people and our people's journey. And when those acts of kindness and those acts of neighbors and acts of friendship have meant so much I know like my family, they still tell those stories of like, this one person, you know, in Ohio who welcome them and said hello. We don't even know their names. Those acts can be etched in people's hearts and souls. And right now people need us.    Miko Lee: [00:53:59] Oh, I love that. I've talked with many survivors of the Japanese American concentration camps, and so many of them talk about the people of conscience, meaning the people that were able to step up and help support them during, before and after that time. Lastly, I'm wondering, you're naming some really specific ways that people can get engaged, and I know you're deeply involved in the sanctuary movement. Can you provide us with ways that people can find out more? More ways to get involved in some of the work that you are doing.    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:54:29] I'll put a plug in for our website. It's www dot I am number four, human integrity.org. So it's, iam4humanintegrity.org. We work with families that are impacted facing deportation, looking for all kinds of ways to get the community to rally around folks and support and we work with faith communities who are thinking about how to become sanctuary congregations and how to be an important resource in your local community. The other organizations, I would say sign up for Bay Resistance. They're organizing a lot of volunteers that we call on all the time we're working with. We're, you know, working with many organizations, the Bay Area, to make sure that a new ice detention facility does not get built. They are looking at the potential site of Dublin. We've worked really hard the last decade to get all the detention centers out of Northern California. We don't want them to open up a new one here.   Miko Lee: [00:55:27] Deb Lee, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express and folks can actually see Deb on Tuesday night in Wong Kim Ark Week as one of the speakers. Thank you so much for joining us.    Rev. Deb Lee: [00:55:38] Thank you, Miko.    Miko Lee: [00:55:39] Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. We're gonna close this episode with words from Norman Wong, the great grandson of Wong Kim Ark.   Norman Wong: [00:55:49] So let's fight back. Threats to birthright citizenship will only divide us, and right now we need to come together to continue the impact of my great grandfather's. This is my family's legacy, and now it's part of yours too. Thank you    Miko Lee: [00:56:11] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preti Mangala-Shekar, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tanglao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.    The post APEX Express – 3.20.25- Wong Kim Ark appeared first on KPFA.

Send us a textMike Eng is a distinguished public servant whose career spans decades of advocacy, legal expertise, and leadership across various sectors. His work has profoundly impacted his community and the state of California, where he has championed causes ranging from civil rights to education, water access, and housing.Mike began his public service career as a City Commissioner, where he stood up against censorship when the city dissolved the library board of trustees, of which he was president, over the inclusion of foreign language books. His fight for library independence led to his involvement in a nationally recognized court case that protected the autonomy of libraries across the U.S. He also spearheaded a successful local fundraising campaign that qualified the city for a state grant, resulting in an $18 million library expansion.A volunteer lawyer, Mike is known for creating the Emmy-winning “How to Become a U.S. Citizen” video, which has helped countless immigrants navigate the citizenship process. His work as a City Mayor further showcased his commitment to unity, notably through the creation of the Harmony Essay Contest, which brought together long-term residents and new immigrants.Mike's influence as a State Assemblyman gained him international recognition for authoring California's “Human Right to Water” legislation, aimed at providing clean drinking water to disadvantaged communities. He also authored the “Homeowner's Bill of Rights,” which protected middle-class families from predatory banking practices during the housing crisis.A staunch advocate for immigrant rights, Mike established California's “Day of Inclusion,” which recognized the end of the Chinese Exclusion Act and honored the contributions of immigrants and minorities. As a Community College Trustee, he fought for accessible education by helping thousands of students gain healthcare under the Affordable Care Act and addressing homelessness among students by advocating for affordable on-campus housing.In 2019, Mike was appointed to the California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board, where he helps ensure that laws related to unemployment, disability, taxes, and workplace fairness are enforced justly. A passionate public speaker, he frequently lectures on U.S. and California laws, especially those that have historically legitimized racial discrimination in education, immigration, and legal systems.A graduate of UCLA Law School, Mike is the son of a World War II veteran, the brother of a Pastor, and the husband of a member of the U.S. House of Representatives. His dedication to justice, equality, and public service has left a lasting legacy in both his local community and the state of California.___________________Music CreditsIntroEuphoria in the San Gabriel Valley, Yone OGStingerScarlet Fire (Sting), Otis McDonald, YouTube Audio LibraryOutroEuphoria in the San Gabriel Valley, Yone OG__________________My SGV Podcast:Website: www.mysgv.netNewsletter: Beyond the MicPatreon: MySGV Podcastinfo@sgvmasterkey.com

In 1931, Hazel Ying Lee, a nineteen-year-old American daughter of Chinese immigrants, sat in on a friend's flight lesson. It changed her life. In less than a year, a girl with a wicked sense of humor, a newfound love of flying, and a tough can-do attitude earned her pilot's license and headed for China to help against invading Japanese forces. In time, Hazel would become the first Asian American to fly with the Women Airforce Service Pilots. As thrilling as it may have been, it wasn't easy. In America, Hazel felt the oppression and discrimination of the Chinese Exclusion Act. In China's field of male-dominated aviation she was dismissed for being a woman, and for being an American. But in service to her country, Hazel refused to be limited by gender, race, and impossible dreams. Frustrated but undeterred she forged ahead, married Clifford Louie, a devoted and unconventional husband who cheered his wife on, and gave her all for the cause achieving more in her short remarkable life than even she imagined possible. American Flygirl (Citadel Press, 2024) is the untold account of a spirited fighter and an indomitable hidden figure in American history. She broke every common belief about women. She challenged every social restriction to endure and to succeed. And against seemingly insurmountable obstacles, Hazel Ying Lee reached for the skies and made her mark as a universal and unsung hero whose time has come. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In 1931, Hazel Ying Lee, a nineteen-year-old American daughter of Chinese immigrants, sat in on a friend's flight lesson. It changed her life. In less than a year, a girl with a wicked sense of humor, a newfound love of flying, and a tough can-do attitude earned her pilot's license and headed for China to help against invading Japanese forces. In time, Hazel would become the first Asian American to fly with the Women Airforce Service Pilots. As thrilling as it may have been, it wasn't easy. In America, Hazel felt the oppression and discrimination of the Chinese Exclusion Act. In China's field of male-dominated aviation she was dismissed for being a woman, and for being an American. But in service to her country, Hazel refused to be limited by gender, race, and impossible dreams. Frustrated but undeterred she forged ahead, married Clifford Louie, a devoted and unconventional husband who cheered his wife on, and gave her all for the cause achieving more in her short remarkable life than even she imagined possible. American Flygirl (Citadel Press, 2024) is the untold account of a spirited fighter and an indomitable hidden figure in American history. She broke every common belief about women. She challenged every social restriction to endure and to succeed. And against seemingly insurmountable obstacles, Hazel Ying Lee reached for the skies and made her mark as a universal and unsung hero whose time has come. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

In 1931, Hazel Ying Lee, a nineteen-year-old American daughter of Chinese immigrants, sat in on a friend's flight lesson. It changed her life. In less than a year, a girl with a wicked sense of humor, a newfound love of flying, and a tough can-do attitude earned her pilot's license and headed for China to help against invading Japanese forces. In time, Hazel would become the first Asian American to fly with the Women Airforce Service Pilots. As thrilling as it may have been, it wasn't easy. In America, Hazel felt the oppression and discrimination of the Chinese Exclusion Act. In China's field of male-dominated aviation she was dismissed for being a woman, and for being an American. But in service to her country, Hazel refused to be limited by gender, race, and impossible dreams. Frustrated but undeterred she forged ahead, married Clifford Louie, a devoted and unconventional husband who cheered his wife on, and gave her all for the cause achieving more in her short remarkable life than even she imagined possible. American Flygirl (Citadel Press, 2024) is the untold account of a spirited fighter and an indomitable hidden figure in American history. She broke every common belief about women. She challenged every social restriction to endure and to succeed. And against seemingly insurmountable obstacles, Hazel Ying Lee reached for the skies and made her mark as a universal and unsung hero whose time has come. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/asian-american-studies

In 1931, Hazel Ying Lee, a nineteen-year-old American daughter of Chinese immigrants, sat in on a friend's flight lesson. It changed her life. In less than a year, a girl with a wicked sense of humor, a newfound love of flying, and a tough can-do attitude earned her pilot's license and headed for China to help against invading Japanese forces. In time, Hazel would become the first Asian American to fly with the Women Airforce Service Pilots. As thrilling as it may have been, it wasn't easy. In America, Hazel felt the oppression and discrimination of the Chinese Exclusion Act. In China's field of male-dominated aviation she was dismissed for being a woman, and for being an American. But in service to her country, Hazel refused to be limited by gender, race, and impossible dreams. Frustrated but undeterred she forged ahead, married Clifford Louie, a devoted and unconventional husband who cheered his wife on, and gave her all for the cause achieving more in her short remarkable life than even she imagined possible. American Flygirl (Citadel Press, 2024) is the untold account of a spirited fighter and an indomitable hidden figure in American history. She broke every common belief about women. She challenged every social restriction to endure and to succeed. And against seemingly insurmountable obstacles, Hazel Ying Lee reached for the skies and made her mark as a universal and unsung hero whose time has come. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/military-history

In 1931, Hazel Ying Lee, a nineteen-year-old American daughter of Chinese immigrants, sat in on a friend's flight lesson. It changed her life. In less than a year, a girl with a wicked sense of humor, a newfound love of flying, and a tough can-do attitude earned her pilot's license and headed for China to help against invading Japanese forces. In time, Hazel would become the first Asian American to fly with the Women Airforce Service Pilots. As thrilling as it may have been, it wasn't easy. In America, Hazel felt the oppression and discrimination of the Chinese Exclusion Act. In China's field of male-dominated aviation she was dismissed for being a woman, and for being an American. But in service to her country, Hazel refused to be limited by gender, race, and impossible dreams. Frustrated but undeterred she forged ahead, married Clifford Louie, a devoted and unconventional husband who cheered his wife on, and gave her all for the cause achieving more in her short remarkable life than even she imagined possible. American Flygirl (Citadel Press, 2024) is the untold account of a spirited fighter and an indomitable hidden figure in American history. She broke every common belief about women. She challenged every social restriction to endure and to succeed. And against seemingly insurmountable obstacles, Hazel Ying Lee reached for the skies and made her mark as a universal and unsung hero whose time has come. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/gender-studies

The 1898 supreme court case called United States vs. Wong Kim Ark had affected enforcement of the Chinese Exclusion Act, because the court found that people born in the U.S. to Chinese parents were U.S. citizens. Research: Graber, Mark A. "United States v. Wong Kim Ark." American Governance, edited by Stephen Schechter, et al., vol. 5, Macmillan Reference USA, 2016, pp. 228-230. Gale In Context: U.S. History, link.gale.com/apps/doc/CX3629100710/GPS?u=mlin_n_melpub&sid=bookmark-GPS&xid=73795502. Accessed 22 Jan. 2025. "United States v. Wong Kim Ark." Gale U.S. History Online Collection, Gale, 2024. Gale In Context: U.S. History, link.gale.com/apps/doc/EXXRWP999307394/GPS?u=mlin_n_melpub&sid=bookmark-GPS&xid=c225358c. Accessed 22 Jan. 2025. "United States v. Wong Kim Ark." Great American Court Cases, edited by Mark Mikula and L. Mpho Mabunda, vol. 3: Equal Protection and Family Law, Gale, 1999. Gale In Context: Opposing Viewpoints, link.gale.com/apps/doc/EJ2303200443/GPS?u=mlin_n_melpub&sid=bookmark-GPS&xid=01ef8726. Accessed 22 Jan. 2025. Zietlow, Rebecca E. "Fourteenth Amendment: Citizenship Clause." American Governance, edited by Stephen Schechter, et al., vol. 2, Macmillan Reference USA, 2016, pp. 248-251. Gale In Context: U.S. History, link.gale.com/apps/doc/CX3629100269/GPS?u=mlin_n_melpub&sid=bookmark-GPS&xid=5c43018e. Accessed 22 Jan. 2025. Rosenbloom, Rachel E. “Birthright Citizenship Has Been Challenged Before.” Time. 1/15/2025. https://time.com/7204970/birthright-citizenship-test-cases/ Bomboy, Scott. “Updated: The birthright citizenship question and the Constitution.” National Constitution Center. 1/21/2025. https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/revisiting-the-birthright-citizenship-question-and-the-constitution Cabrera-Lomelí, Carlos. “A 129-Year-Old San Francisco Lawsuit Could Stop Trump From Ending Birthright Citizenship.” KQED. 1/21/2025. https://www.kqed.org/news/12015449/a-129-year-old-san-francisco-lawsuit-could-stop-trump-from-ending-birthright-citizenship Abdelfatah, Rund et al. “By Accident of Birth.” Throughline. NPR. 6/9/2022. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/06/1103291268/by-accident-of-birth Dhillon, Hardeep. “How the Fight for Birthright Citizenship Shaped the History of Asian American Families.” Smithsonian. 3/27/2023. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-the-fight-for-birthright-citizenship-reshaped-asian-american-families-180981866/ Frost, Amanda. “Birthright Citizens and Paper Sons.” The American Scholar. 1/18/2021. https://theamericanscholar.org/birthright-citizens-and-paper-sons/ Moore, Robert. “He won a landmark citizenship case at the US Supreme Court. El Paso tried to deport him anyway.” El Paso Matters. 7/4/2022. https://elpasomatters.org/2022/07/04/wong-kim-ark-vs-united-states-history-immigration-supreme-court/ Frost, Amanda. “’By Accident of Birth’: The Battle over Birthright Citizenship After United States v. Wong Kim Ark.” Yale Journal of Law and the Humanities. https://openyls.law.yale.edu/handle/20.500.13051/7583 Berger, Bethany. “Birthright Citizenship on Trial: Elk v. Wilkins and United States v. Wong Kim Ark.” Articles and Papers. 378. 2016. https://opencommons.uconn.edu/law_papers/378 National Archives Catalog. “In the matter of Wong Kim Ark for a writ of habeas corpus.” https://catalog.archives.gov/id/296026 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This 2021 episode covers the Chinese Exclusion Act, the United States’ first major immigration law. As its name suggests it specifically targeted people from China, and it led to Supreme Court cases that set the stage for later restrictions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wong Kim Ark was born in the U.S. and lived his whole life here. But when he returned from a trip to China in August of 1895, officials wouldn't let him leave his ship. Citing the Chinese Exclusion Act, which denied citizenship to Chinese immigrants, they told him he was not, in fact, a citizen of the United States.Today, the story of Wong Kim Ark, whose epic fight to be recognized as a citizen in his own country led to a Supreme Court decision affirming birthright citizenship for all. This episode originally ran as By Accident of Birth.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

On May 28, 1904, Chinese immigrants Moy Kee and Chin Fung hosted Chinese imperial royalty at their Indianapolis chop suey restaurant. Prince Pu Lun, the rumored heir to the Qing Dynasty's imperial throne, was so impressed by the luncheon that he elevated Moy to Mandarin of the Fifth Rank, a prestigious Chinese social status. But how did Moy Kee, an immigrant from the Guangdong Province, end up hosting Chinese royalty? How did he gain so much influence in Indianapolis during the height of Chinese exclusion and Sinophobia? The story is a fascinating one that raises an even deeper questions that the United States still wrestles with today: What does it mean to be an American citizen? And who gets to be a citizen and who doesn't? This new episode of Talking Hoosier History is voiced by Justin Clark, written by Kelsey Green, and produced by A.J. Chrapliwy. A transcript, show notes, and more information on this episode is available at the THH website: https://podcast.history.in.gov/.

Ellen Chang-Richardson's breathtaking poetry collection, Blood/Belies, was released in spring 2024 by Wolsak & Wynn and was a third bestseller in nonfiction in Calgary, Alberta. Chang-Richardson writes of race, of injury and of belonging in stunning poems that fade in and out of the page. History swirls through this collection like a summer storm, as they bring their father's, and their own, stories to light, writing against the background of the institutional racism of Canada, the Chinese Exclusion Act, the head tax and more. From Taiwan in the early 1990s to Oakville in the late 1990s, Toronto in the 2010s, Cambodia in the mid-1970s and Ottawa in the 2020s, Blood Belies takes the reader through time, asking them what it means to look the way we do? To carry scars? To persevere? To hope? About Ellen Chang-Richardson: Ellen Chang-Richardson is an award-winning poet of Taiwanese and Chinese Cambodian descent whose multi-genre writing has appeared in Augur, The Ex-Puritan, The Fiddlehead, Grain, third coast magazine, Vallum Contemporary, Watch Your Head and more. Born in Toronto, Ontario, they were raised in Oakville, Ontario and São Paulo, Brazil, and spent their most formative years growing up in Shanghai, China. A third culture kid at heart, Ellen's writing is informed by their love of contemporary art, their concern with the climate crisis, and their experience moving through the world as they are. The co-founder of Riverbed Reading Series, an editor for Room and long con magazine, and a member of the poetry collective VII, Ellen is currently based in Ottawa, Canada, on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Nation. You can usually find them baking sourdough bread from their starter, Bubbles, or biking the riverside trails on their single-speed. About Hollay Ghadery: Hollay Ghadery is an Iranian-Canadian multi-genre writer living in Ontario on Anishinaabe land. She has her MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Guelph. Fuse, her memoir of mixed-race identity and mental health, was released by Guernica Editions in 2021 and won the 2023 Canadian Bookclub Award for Nonfiction/Memoir. Her collection of poetry, Rebellion Box was released by Radiant Press in 2023, and her collection of short fiction, Widow Fantasies, was released with Gordon Hill Press in fall 2024. Her debut novel, The Unraveling of Ou, is due out with Palimpsest Press in 2026, and her children's book, Being with the Birds, with Guernica Editions in 2027. Hollay is the host of the 105.5 FM Bookclub, as well as a co-host on HOWL on CIUT 89.5 FM. She is also a book publicist, the Regional Chair of the League of Canadian Poets and a co-chair of the League's BIPOC committee, as well as the Poet Laureate of Scugog Township. Learn more about Hollay at www.hollayghadery.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

We're back from Thanksgiving. To start the show we ask listeners what they think about President Joe Biden's decision to pardon his son Hunter. GBH News Analyst Charlie Sennott discusses the fragile ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon and Ukrainian president Zelensky saying he that he would cede Ukrainian territory for an end to the violence.Amherst college professor Ilan Stavans talks about Trump's tariff conversation with Mexico President Sheinbaum and lessons from the Chinese Exclusion Act on mass deportation.Mayors Dominick Pangallo (Salem) & Cathleen DeSimone (Attleboro) discuss how drought conditions across the state have impacted their respective cities.Boston Globe business columnist Shirley Leung discusses the Shaws & Star Market merger and record spending on Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Then we open up the phone lines to ask listeners about online shopping. 

In 1880, the Chinese were the biggest group of immigrants in the western U.S. But Sinophobic sentiments crystallized into racist policies and eventually the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. The rationale was that banning Chinese laborers would boost job opportunities for U.S.-born workers. Today, an economist explains how the Chinese exclusion laws affected the economies of western states and what it says about our current debate over immigration and jobs.Read the working paper co-authored by Nancy Qian.A digital scan of the photo album in the California Historical Society's collections is available here.For more on this period of history, check out At America's Gates: Chinese Immigration during the Exclusion Era, 1882-1943 by Erika Lee.Related episodes:What's missing in the immigration debate (Apple / Spotify) For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Music by Drop Electric. Find us: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Newsletter. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy