American writer
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This conversation will stay with you. When Glennon and her son Chase sit down with his hero, Ocean Vuong, something shifts: mothering reveals itself as more than a role—it's a force that finds our kids through books, voices, and people who see them when we can't. A raw, beautiful conversation about raising boys, surviving what shapes us, and the quiet truth every parent carries: we don't do this alone. - How art and connection can “mother” us - What boys are taught about survival—and how that's changing - The moment a child feels truly seen - How grief opens us to deeper human connection - Gratitude for the ones who help raise our kids About Ocean: Ocean Vuong, author of the critically acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds, and the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous is a recipient of the 2019 MacArthur "Genius Grant" and the winner of the Whiting Award and the T. S. Eliot Prize. In Time Is a Mother, Ocean's newest poetry collection available now, he reckons with his mother's death, embodying the paradox of sitting within grief while being determined to survive beyond it. His writings have been featured in The Atlantic, Harper's Magazine, The Nation, The New Republic, The New Yorker, and The New York Times. Born in Saigon, Vietnam, he currently lives in Northampton, Massachusetts. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/wecandohardthings
We're wrapping up The Late Show Pod Show with the best of "Late Show Vocab," our favorite definitions and origin stories of slang terms and shorthand only Colbert's staff knows! In the first round, Stephen sheds light on "Brap It On The Poof," "Dollar Signs," and "sack, sack, sack, sack, saaack!" Then enjoy this lovely EXTENDED conversation with poet, bestselling author, and McArthur Genius Grant recipient Ocean Vuong.This podcast was originally released on August 14th, 2025. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
durée : 00:08:36 - Le masque et la plume - par : Rebecca Manzoni - Cinq ans après son premier succès mondial, Ocean Vuong revient avec "L'Empereur de la joie". Un nouveau roman qui explore le quotidien de laissés-pour-compte dans le Connecticut, entre crise des opioïdes, précarité sociale et traumatismes collectifs. Un ouvrage jugé "phénoménal" par certains. - réalisation : Stéphane Le Guennec, Ilinca Negulesco - invités : Charlotte Lipinska Critique de cinéma et journaliste à Télé Matin, Jean-Marc Proust Auteur et critique (Slate), Elisabeth Philippe Critique littéraire (L'Obs), Philippe Trétiack Journaliste et écrivain, Bernard Poirette Journaliste et critique (Podcast C'est à lire) Vous aimez ce podcast ? Pour écouter tous les épisodes sans limite, rendez-vous sur Radio France
durée : 00:47:15 - Le masque et la plume - par : Rebecca Manzoni - Cinq livres, quatre critiques et autant de terrains de débat : de l'Amérique d'Ocean Vuong à la diagonale du vide d'Eliot Ruffel, en passant par la France d'après-guerre, la Palestine et la Riviera. Voici une nouvelle joute du Masque et la Plume. - réalisation : Stéphane Le Guennec, Ilinca Negulesco - invités : Charlotte Lipinska Critique de cinéma et journaliste à Télé Matin, Bernard Poirette Journaliste et critique (Podcast C'est à lire), Elisabeth Philippe Critique littéraire (L'Obs), Jean-Marc Proust Auteur et critique (Slate), Philippe Trétiack Journaliste et écrivain Vous aimez ce podcast ? Pour écouter tous les épisodes sans limite, rendez-vous sur Radio France
This week, we're celebrating National Poetry Month by revisiting some of our favorite conversations with poets. Ocean Vuong's collection, Time Is A Mother, is about his grief after losing family members. Vuong told NPR's Rachel Martin that time is different now that he has lost his mother: "when I look at my life since she died in 2019, I only see two days: Today when she's not here, and the big, big yesterday when I had her."To listen to Book of the Day sponsor-free and support NPR's book coverage, sign up for Book of the Day+ at plus.npr.org/bookofthedaySee pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy
durée : 00:16:21 - Les Midis de Culture - par : Marie Labory - Après "Un bref instant de splendeur", Ocean Vuong publie un deuxième roman, où une histoire d'amitié incongrue paraît pouvoir pallier la cruauté des États-Unis. - réalisation : Laurence Malonda - invités : Virginie Bloch-Lainé Productrice à France Culture, critique littéraire, romancière. ; Romain de Becdelièvre Auteur, conseiller dramaturgique, producteur à France Culture
durée : 00:27:55 - Les Midis de Culture - par : Marie Labory - Dans ce débat critique, nous parlerons littérature étrangère, avec deux textes hantés par l'argent et les inégalités de richesse : le nouveau roman du jeune prodige des lettres américaines Ocean Vuong et le retour de la prix Nobel de littérature Elfriede Jelinek. - réalisation : Laurence Malonda - invités : Virginie Bloch-Lainé Productrice à France Culture, critique littéraire, romancière. ; Romain de Becdelièvre Auteur, conseiller dramaturgique, producteur à France Culture
April is National Poetry Month, so Mary and Rachel discuss a wide variety of poems written by poets from all walks of life. Check out what we talked about: "Beautiful Chaos: On Motherhood, Finding Yourself and Overwhelming Love" by Jessica Urlichs with readalike "Paper Flowers: Poetry on the Mother Wound" by Jessica Jocelyn. "Dream Boogie: Variation" by Langston Hughes with readalike "We Real Cool" by Gwendolyn Brooks. "Night Sky with Exit Wounds" and "On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous" by Ocean Vuong with readalikes "Bright Dead Things" by Ada Limón and "Crank" by Ellen Hopkins. "The Divine Comedy" including "Inferno," "Purgatory," and "Paradise" by Dante Alighieri with readalike "Paradise Lost" by John Milton. "Portrait of a Dog as an Older Guy" from "Cossacks and Bandits" by Katia Kapovich and "There are Birds Here" from "The Big Book of Exit Strategies" by Jamaal May. "In Memoriam A. H. H." by Alfred Lord Tennyson with readalike "Anacreon's Grave" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. Submit an original work of your own to the annual OCPL Poetry Contest and/or register for our Poetry Open Mic Night on May 29, 2026: oakcreeklibrary.org/events To access complete transcripts for all episodes of Not Your Mother's Library, please visit: oakcreeklibrary.org/podcast Check out books, movies, and other materials through the Milwaukee County Federated Library System: countycat.mcfls.org wplc.overdrive.com oakcreeklibrary.org
This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can't imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Ocean Vuong is a poet, a novelist, and a professor at NYU. He's just really good at writing in this fresh, enchanted, and imaginative way. He has this way of seeing and experiencing the world that's alive and filled with wonder. If you want to write prose that's lush, words that are vivid, and stories that pulse with life, then you're going to love this episode. About the host Hey! I'm David Perell and I'm a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
L'émission 28 minutes du 19/03/2026 Ocean Vuong, nouvelle star de la littérature américaine Alors qu'un jeune homme accro aux opioïdes s'apprête à sauter d'un pont d'une petite ville du Connecticut, une veuve âgée atteinte de démence l'interpelle et lui ouvre la porte de sa maison délabrée. De là naît une relation inattendue. C'est ainsi que débute "L'empereur de la joie" (éditions Gallimard), le nouveau roman d'Ocean Vuong, poète et romancier américain, né au Vietnam. Il est notre invité ce soir. Plaider-coupable criminel : justice au rabais ou révolution pénale ? Le garde des sceaux, Gérald Darmanin, a présenté son projet de loi SURE (sanction utile rapide et effective) au Conseil des ministres mercredi 18 mars. Son objectif est d'accélérer le temps de traitement des procédures. Aujourd'hui, 6 000 dossiers criminels sont en attente de procès. Il propose le “plaider-coupable” criminel, qui s'appliquerait donc également aux viols. Il consiste à juger en une demi-journée sans témoins et sans experts. Pour se faire, il faut que la victime l'accepte et que l'accusé reconnaisse la totalité des faits. En échange, l'accusé voit sa peine réduite. Cette procédure pourrait concerner 10 à 15 % des affaires. Ses détracteurs dénoncent une atteinte grave au droit à un procès équitable. Ils craignent notamment que des innocents aillent en prison et d'”invisibiliser les viols” en empêchant la tenue d'un procès solennel. On en débat avec Béatrice Brugère, secrétaire Générale du syndicat Unité Magistrats, Raphaël Kempf, avocat pénaliste au barreau de Paris et Grégoire Biseau, journaliste, responsable de la rubrique Justice au quotidien "Le Monde". Le prochain porte-avion français se nommera "La France Libre", l'occasion pour Xavier Mauduit de revenir sur l'histoire de certains noms iconiques de navires français. Marie Bonnisseau s'intéresse à une association salvadorienne qui vient de mettre en place un dispositif d'assurance paramétrique, destiné à anticiper et aider les habitants d'Oriente Salvaje, au Salvador, en cas de catastrophe naturelle. 28 minutes est le magazine d'actualité d'ARTE, présenté par Élisabeth Quin du lundi au jeudi à 20h05. Renaud Dély est aux commandes de l'émission le vendredi et le samedi. Ce podcast est coproduit par KM et ARTE Radio. Enregistrement 19 mars 2026 Présentation Élisabeth Quin Production KM, ARTE Radio
durée : 00:49:18 - La 20e heure - par : Eva Bester - Rencontre avec le poète et romancier Ocean Vuong, traduit dans une trentaine de langues. L'auteur a quitté le Vietnam à deux ans avec sa mère, portée par l'espoir d'une vie meilleure. Il publie “L'Empereur de la joie”, aux éditions Gallimard, portrait fascinant d'une Amérique défaillante et cruelle. Vous aimez ce podcast ? Pour écouter tous les autres épisodes sans limite, rendez-vous sur Radio France.
durée : 00:58:34 - Le Book Club - par : Marie Richeux - Dans une petite ville du Connecticut, une vieille femme recueille un jeune homme à la dérive. À travers ce tandem incongru, le poète et romancier américain Ocean Vuong dessine en creux le portrait d'une Amérique défaillante et cruelle, où l'amitié forme malgré tout une lueur d'espoir. - réalisation : Vivien Demeyère - invités : Ocean Vuong Poète, romancier et essayiste
Ocean Vuong, poet, essayist, novelist, educator, and photographer, joins PhotoWork with Sasha Wolf for an in-depth conversation about his solo photography exhibition Sõng and the accompanying photobook, presented at CPW. In this episode, Vuong reflects on storytelling across mediums, creative practice, and the discipline behind writing and photography. Drawing from his life experience, he speaks candidly about process, vulnerability, and the courage required to share work publicly. This episode offers grounded insight for artists who question their creative voice or the value of presenting their work. https://www.oceanvuong.com/ https://cpw.org/exhibition/song/ Writer, professor, and photographer Ocean Vuong is the author of On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous, winner of the American Book Award, The Mark Twain Award, and The New England Book Award. The novel debuted for six weeks on The New York Times bestseller list and has since sold more than a million copies in 41 languages. A nominee for the National Book Award and a recipient of a MacArthur "Genius" Grant, he is also the author of the poetry collections, Time is a Mother, a finalist for the Griffin prize, and Night Sky with Exit Wounds, a New York Times Top 10 Book, winner of the T.S. Eliot Prize, the Whiting Award, the Thom Gunn Award. Selected by Time magazine as one of its 100 Rising Cultural Influencers, Vuong's writings have been featured in The Atlantic, Granta, Harpers, The Nation, New Republic, The New Yorker, The New York Times, Paris Review, The Village Voice, and American Poetry Review, which awarded him the Stanley Kunitz Prize for Younger Poets. Born in Saigon, Vietnam and raised in Hartford, Connecticut in a working class family of nail salon and factory laborers, he was educated at nearby Manchester Community College before transferring to Pace University to study International Marketing. Without completing his first term, he dropped out and enrolled at Brooklyn College, where he graduated with a BA in Nineteenth Century American Literature. He subsequently received his MFA in Poetry from NYU. He currently splits his time between Western Massachusetts and New York City, where he serves as a Professor in Modern Poetry and Poetics in the MFA Program at NYU.
In this episode of BG Ideas, Dr. Rachel Walsh, Associate Teaching Professor of English and International Studies at Bowling Green State University and ICS Faculty Fellow in the fall of 2025, discusses Pat Heartly and Dick Fontaine's recently restored documentary on James Baldwin, I Heard It Through the Grapevine (1982) and how it foreshadows the current backlash to diversity, equity and inclusion. In I Heard It Through the Grapevine, James Baldwin visits the settings of the 1960's civil rights struggle in the south. Join us, as Dr. Walsh explores the power of multiethnic US literature from James Baldwin to Ocean Vuong to resist disenfranchising. Listen to how Dr. Walsh talks about the struggles with traditional literature and the growth of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in literature. Want to know more about Dr. Walsh? Click here to check out her website. A transcript for this episode can be found here.
If you're feeling jaded by money, politics and modern dating … you're not the only one. Conor Kerr's new novella, Beaver Hills Forever, follows the everyday lives of four Métis people in Edmonton. The odds are stacked against them and life is exhausting, but each person finds meaning in the small moments and the beauty of life in the Canadian Prairies. Beaver Hills Forever is a poetic love letter to the city of Edmonton and the power of community … and yes, the perils of dating apps make an appearance too. This week, Conor joins Mattea to talk about the unique structure of the book, how he battles his own cynicism and what it really means to strive for a better life. Liked this conversation? Keep listening:For Indigenous players, ice hockey is a ceremony of its own Ocean Vuong finds beauty in a fast food shift
In today's episode, you're going to hear a conversation that will help you find meaning again - especially if you've been feeling lost, stuck, stretched thin, or quietly wondering, “Does any of this even matter?” Joining Mel is Ocean Vuong - one of the most acclaimed writers of our time and the bestselling author of On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous. His newest book, The Emperor of Gladness, moved Mel so deeply she knew she had to bring him on the podcast - because Ocean has a rare gift: he puts words to feelings you've had, but never knew how to say out loud. Ocean is an award-winning poet, a MacArthur Fellowship “Genius Grant” recipient, and a professor at NYU. He writes and speaks about grief, love, identity, hardship, and hope with an honesty that doesn't just hit… it stays with you. This episode is an invitation to pause, reset, and reconnect with yourself. It will help you stop judging where you are, release the pressure you're carrying, and remember that you don't need to become someone else to be worthy - or to build a meaningful life. Even if you've never read Ocean's work, this conversation will feel like someone finally handed you the words you've been searching for. In this episode, you'll learn: -How to find meaning even when you're behind in life -How to move through grief without shutting down and let beauty exist alongside pain -Why chasing who you “should” be is keeping you stuck and how to come back to yourself -How to reconnect with yourself when you've been in survival mode for too long -How to feel calmer and more grounded when life feels uncertain - How to reprogram your mind for more positive thinking By the end of this episode, you'll feel more hopeful, more centered, and more at peace with where you are - with permission to be exactly who you are, right now. For more resources related to today's episode, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked the episode, check out this one next: Why You Feel Lost in Life: Dr. Gabor Maté on Trauma & How to HealConnect with Mel: Order Mel's new product, Pure Genius ProteinGet Mel's newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration.Get Mel's #1 bestselling book, The Let Them TheoryWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-freeDisclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
We air our live conversation with Ocean Vuong from our January Get Lit with All Of It book club event. We spent the month reading his novel, The Emperor of Gladness.
For our January Get Lit with All Of It book club event, Ocean Vuong requested he be accompanied by musical guest Quinn Christopherson, a Tiny Desk contest winner, who flew in from Alaska overnight to perform some new music, live.
Quinn Christopherson flew all the way from Alaska to join us last night as the Get Lit musical guest with Ocean Vuong. The NPR Tiny Desk winner talks more about his work, and his album, Write Your Name In Pink, plus new music.
Our January Get Lit with All Of It book club selection is the novel The Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong. The story follows a young man named Hai who is struggling with addiction and mental health when he becomes the caretaker for an elderly woman with dementia. Vuong previews the the novel ahead of our January 20th event. Click here to grab your free tickets!
One of our favorite podcast highlights from 2025 was playing 'Late Show Vocab' with Stephen, in order to showcase the unique etymology of life at The Late Show. And enjoy this truly lovely, EXTENDED conversation with poet, bestselling author, and McArthur Genius Grant recipient Ocean Vuong. His latest book, "The Emperor of Gladness," is available now. This podcast was originally released on August 14th, 2025. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Ocean Vuong is the author of the novel The Emperor of Gladness, available from Penguin Press. Ocean's other books include the critically acclaimed poetry collections Night Sky with Exit Wounds and Time Is a Mother, as well as the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous. A recipient of the MacArthur Fellowship and the American Book Award, he used to work as a fast-food server, which inspired The Emperor of Gladness. Born in Saigon, Vietnam, he currently splits his time between Northampton, Massachusetts, and New York City. *** Otherppl with Brad Listi is a weekly podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Available where podcasts are available: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, etc. Get How to Write a Novel, the debut audio course from DeepDive. 50+ hours of never-before-heard insight, inspiration, and instruction from dozens of today's most celebrated contemporary authors. Subscribe to Brad's email newsletter. Support the show on Patreon Merch Instagram TikTok Bluesky Email the show: letters [at] otherppl [dot] com The podcast is a proud affiliate partner of Bookshop, working to support local, independent bookstores. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Here at Where We Live, this was a big year for books. Not only did we get the chance to speak with some terrific authors, we also launched our Where We Read newsletter, a destination for die-hard book lovers and the literary curious alike. Today, we are going to listen back to a few of our favorite author conversations. We hear from Connecticut natives Ocean Vuong and Wally Lamb. Listen back to their full interviews below: Wally Lamb's new book, 'The River Is Waiting,' explores prison injustice and forgiveness Connecticut native Ocean Vuong has a deep love for Hartford GUESTS: Ocean Vuong: writer, professor and author of "The Emperor of Gladness" Wally Lamb: author of "The River Is Waiting." He is also the author of "She’s Come Undone" and "I Know This Much Is True." Where We Live is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode.Support the show: http://wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
[REBROADCAST FROM May 14, 2025] Celebrated poet and author Ocean Vuong discusses his new novel, The Emperor of Gladness. It follows the relationship between a young man and an elderly woman who meet after the man's suicide attempt.
In this episode, Sarah and Jes discuss the best books of the year, great books to give as gifts, the most checked out items at DMPL, and the librarians personal favorite books they read in 2025. Learn more below: Show Notes What we are reading Jes: On the Calculation of Volume I by Solvej Balle Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke Sarah: Just Our Luck by Denise Williams, The Everlasting by Alix E. Harrow Best Bets (good gifts) Automatic Noodle by Annalee Newitz, The Book of Alchemy by Suleika Jaouad, The JFK Conspiracy: The Secret Plot to Kill Kennedy―and Why it Failed by Brad Meltzer and Joel Mensch, How to Be a Saint: An Extremely Weird and Mildly Sacrilegious History of the Catholic Church's Biggest Names by Kate Sidley Best of the Year Lists Books 1. Heart the Lover by Lily King 2. Audition by Katie Kitamura 3. Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong 4. Katabasis by R.F Kuang 5. Mother Mary Comes to me by Arundhati Roy 6. The Buffalo Hunter Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones 7. A Flower Traveled in My Blood by Haley Cohen Gilliland 8. Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid 9. Baldwin by Nicolas Boggs 10. Flesh by David Szalay Top Checked Out 1. The Wedding People by Alison Espach 2. The God of the Woods by Liz Moore 3. Strangers in Time by Baldacci by David Baldacci 4. The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins 5. Great, Big Beautiful Life by Emily Henry 6. James by Percival Everett 7. Say You'll Remember Me by Abby Jimenez 8. Dog Man: Big Jim Begins and Dog Man: The Scarlet Shredder by Dav Pilkey 9. My Friends by Fredrik Backman Top DVDs Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice Wicked Conclave Jes' Top Ten 1. Woodworking by Emily St. James 2. Poet's Square by Courtney Gustafson 3. Heart the Lover by Lily King 4. Migrations by Charlotte McConaghy 5. Sky Daddy by Kate Folk 6. Audition by Katie Kitamura 7. The Safekeep by Yael van der Wouden 8. Disappoint Me by Nicola Dinan 9. Blood Over Bright Haven by M.L. Wang 10. Stag Dance by Torrey Peters Sarah's Top Ten 1. A Caribbean Heiress in Paris by Adriana Herrera 2. Who is Government edited by Michael Lewis and Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson 3. The Unmaking of June Farrow by Adrienne Young 4. The Shots you Take by Rachel Reid 5. A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes 6. Shield of Sparrows by Devney Perry 7. Muted by Miranda Mundt 8. The River has Roots by Amal El-Mohtar 9. Everyone Who is Gone is Here by Jonathan Blitzer 10. Heir by Sabaa Tahir Random Books Heated Rivalry by Rachel Reid The Correspondent by Virginia Evans Links No Lovers on These Covers https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/13/books/review/831-stories-romance.html?unlocked_article_code=1.1E8.jA9U.hHjLV3tspEo8&smid=url-share&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email It's Time To Put The "Where Are All The Male Novelists?" Debate To Bed https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/vanishing-young-male-novelists-debate The Guardian view on the Booker prize winner: putting masculinity back at the centre of literary fiction https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/nov/14/the-guardian-view-on-the-booker-prize-winner-putting-masculinity-back-at-the-centre-of-literary-fiction
Early winter weather has us pondering an alternate definition of “slush pile,” albeit the mucky, grey residue remaining after a city snowfall. Our Slush Pile is far more fresh, but still a wintry mix as we discuss the short story “Catherine of the Exvangelical Deconstruction” by Candice Kelsey. You might want to jump down the page and read or listen to it in full first, as there are spoilers in our discussion! The story is set on the day of the Women's March, following 2017's Inauguration Day, but only references those events in the most glancing of ways. Instead the protagonist glances away to an array of distractions: Duolingo, a Frida Kahlo biography, a bat documentary, European architecture, banjo music, a stolen corpse flower, daydreaming, and actual dreaming. In the withholding of the protagonist's interiority, Sam sees a connection to Rachel Cusk's Outline, while Jason is reminded of early Bret Easton Ellis. The editors discuss how fiction might evoke the internet's fractioning of our attention, by recreating the fractioning or reflecting it? We'd like to offer congratulations to Sam whose debut book of short stories, “Uncertain Times,” just won the Washington Writers Publishing House Fiction Prize. As always, thanks for listening! At the table: Dagne Forrest, Samantha Neugebauer, Jason Schneiderman, Kathleen Volk Miller, Lisa Zerkle, and Lilllie Volpe (Sound Engineer) Listen to the story “Catherine of the Exvangelical Deconstruction” read in its entirety by Dagne Forrest (separate from podcast reading) (Bio): Candice M. Kelsey (she/her) is a bi-coastal writer and educator. Her work has received Pushcart and Best-of-the-Net nominations, and she is the author of eight books. Candice reads for The Los Angeles Review and The Weight Journal; she also serves as a 2025 AWP Poetry Mentor. Her next poetry collection, Another Place Altogether, releases December 1st with Kelsay Books. (Website): https://www.candicemkelseypoet.com/ (Instagram): @Feed_Me_Poetry Catherine of the Exvangelical Deconstruction Catherine's thumb hovers over Duolingo's question, her mind dim from doom scrolling, chest dead as TikTok. The green owl stares. She swears its beak is twitching. “Got 5 minutes?” She swipes Duo, that nosy bastard, and his taunting French flag icon away. “Non.” The apartment is dim, the air too still. Days feel hollow and unhinged, as if she's Edmond Dantès tossed off the cliff of Chatêau d'If, a brief and misplaced shell weighted to the depths of the sea. So much for learning a language to calm the nerves. Frida Kahlo's face stares from the page of a book she hasn't finished reading. “I should just return this already.” There are days she commits to her syllabus of self-education and days she resents it. Kahlo's eyes pierce her, and giving up feels like large-scale feminist betrayal—how she has shelved the artist, her wounds, tragic love, and all. But even sisterhood is too much this January 21st, and of all people, Kahlo would understand. Catherine opens her laptop and starts a documentary about bats instead. Chiroptera. A biologist with kind eyes speaks of their hand-like bones, the elastin and collagenous fiber wings. The chaos of nature is its own magic realism. She learns bats are vulnerable like the rest of us. Climate disruption and habitat loss. Plus white nose syndrome and the old standby, persecution by ignorant humans who set their caves aflame. In the documentary, there is a bat with the liquid amber eyes of a prophet. Maybe that's what this world has had too much of, she begins to consider. Mid-deconstruction of decades in the white, evangelical cesspit of high control patriarchy, Catherine sees the world as one big field day full of stupid ego-competitions like cosmic tug-a-wars. And prophets were some of the top offenders. King Zedekiah, for one, had the prophet Jeremiah lowered into a well by rope, intending he sink into the mud and suffocate. All because he warned the people of their emptiness. Her mind wanders to Prague, to art, to something far away that might fill her own cistern life. “Maybe next summer,” she whispers. “Charles Bridge, St. Vitus.” The rhythm of bluegrass hums through the speakers, enough to anchor her here, in this room, in this thin sliver of a world she cannot escape. “That could be the problem; I need to learn Czech. No, fuck Duo.” J'apprendrai le français. J'irai à Prague. Je verrai les vieux bâtiments. But then, something strange. The banjo's pluck feels different, deeper, its twang splitting the air. She Googles the history of Bluegrass, and the words tumble from the page, layering like the weight of a corpse settling into the silt off the coast of Marseille. The banjo isn't Appalachian in origin but rather West African—specifically from the Senegalese and Gambian people, their fingers strumming the akonting, a skin drum-like instrument that whispered of exile, of worlds ripped apart. American slavers steeped in the bitter twisting of scripture trafficked them across the Middle Passage, yet in the cruel silence of the cotton fields, they turned their pain into music. How are we not talking about this in every history class in every school in every state of this nation? The akonting, an enslaved man's lament, was the seed of a gourd that would bloom into the sounds of flatpicking Southerners. Still, the banjo plays on in Catherine's apartment. A much more tolerable sound than Duolingo's dong-ding ta-dong. But she can't quite cleanse her mind of the French lessons, of Lily and Oscar. Il y a toujours plus. Her voice is barely a whisper, trying to reassure herself. There must be more. A recurring dream, soft and gleaming like a pearl—her hands moving over cool clams, shucking them on a beach house in Rhode Island. It's a faint memory, but no less ever present. Aunt Norma and Uncle Francis' beach cottage and the closest thing to a Hyannis Port Kennedy afternoon of cousins frolicking about by the edge of a long dock lured back by the steam of fritters. But this time, Ocean Vuong stands beside her. He's talking about the monkey, Hartford, the tremors of the world. And the banjo has morphed into Puccini's La Bohème, which laces through the rhythm of Vuong's syntax like a golden libretto. They notice a figure outside the window, a shadow in the sand—the new neighbor? He's strange. A horticulturist, they say. Catherine hasn't met him, but there are rumors. “Did he really steal it?” Vuong asks. She practices her French—it's a dream after all—asks “Le cadavre fleuri?” They move to whispers, like a star's breath in night air. Rumor stands that in the middle of California's Eaton fire, the flower went missing from the Huntington Museum in Pasadena. The Titan Arum, bloated and bizarre in its beauty and stench, just vanished. Fran at the liquor store says the new neighbor, gloves always pressed to the earth, took it. At night, she hears him in the garden, talking to the roots. She imagines his voice, murmuring something incomprehensible to the moonlight. Like that's where the truth lies—beneath the soil, between the cracks of broken promises, smelling faintly of rot. She recalls the history she once read, so distant, so impossibly rotten. During WWI, when the Nazis swept through Prague, they forced Jewish scholars to scour their archives. They wanted to preserve the so-called “best” of the Jews—manuscripts, texts, holy materials—for their future banjo-twisted Museum of an Extinct Race. She shudders. The music, the wild joy of the banjo, now seems infected with something ancient and spoiled. The act of collecting, of preserving, feels obscene. What do you keep? What do you discard? Whom do you destroy? She wakes from the dream, her phone still alive with French conjugations. The bluegrass hums, but it's heavier, like a rope lowering her into Narragansett Bay. The neighbor's house is dark. But she thinks she can see him, a silhouette against the trees, standing still as a warning. Everything is falling apart at the seams, and she is both a part of it and apart from it. Like each church she left, each youth group and AWANA or Vacation Bible School where she tried to volunteer, to love on the kids, to be the good follower she was tasked with being. She leans her forehead against the cool glass of the window, closing her eyes. The ache is there, the same ache that never quite leaves. It's sharp, it's bitter, it's whole. The small, steady thrum beneath it all. Il y a toujours plus. Maybe tomorrow she will satisfy Duo. Maybe next fall she will dance down a cobbled street in Prague. Find five minutes to feel human. Perhaps she will be whole enough, tall as St. Vitus Cathedral, to face whatever is left of this America. She closes her eyes to Puccini's Mimi singing Il y a toujours plus and dueling banjos while her neighbor secretly drags a heavy, tarp-covered object across his yard under the flutter of Eastern small-footed bats out for their midnight mosquito snack. A scene only Frida Kahlo could paint.
In this special episode, contemporary artists and filmmakers Miloš Trakilović and Jelena Visković join EMPIRE LINES live, exloring narratives of war, displacement, and visual cultures in the collapse of Yugoslavia in the 1990s, through the video essay, Colorless Green Freedoms Sleep Furiously (2023).This episode was recorded live as part of the public programme for soft enclosures, co-curated by Old Mountain Assembly, Rebecca Edwards, and Rina Meta at Forma in London, in October 2025. soft enclosures is an auxiliary programme to Dream States, Artists' Film International (AFI) 2025.For more information, visit: instagram.com/p/DMxKnjBtFf9/Colorless Green Freedoms Sleep Furiously (2023) is currently on view as part of At the End of the Small Hours, curated by What, How and for Whom (WHW) and Ana Kovačić, at the Ethnographic Museum in Zagreb until 30 November 2025.For more about Miloš Trakilović's 564 Tracks (Not a Love Song Is Usually a Love Song) (2024) at the KW Institute in Berlin, read my article in The New Internationalist: newint.org/art/2025/spotlight-milos-trakilovicMotonation (2024) is currently on view as part of Jelena Visković: HEAT: A Sci-Fi Spa Story at Tallinn Art Hall until 23 November 2025.Listen to artist and filmmaker Saodat Ismailova on Melted into the Sun (2024), on view as part of Nebula, produced by Fondazione In Between Art Film, at the Venice Biennale in April 2024: pod.link/1533637675/episode/Y2IxOWI2YTUtMTI4MS00NzdiLWEyZmUtYmMyYTQ0NmQxMTQ2Saodat Ismailova: As We Fade is at the Baltic Centre for Contemporary Art in Gateshead until 7 June 2026.Read about Marina Abramović: Gates and Portals at the Pitt Rivers Museum and Modern Art Oxford, in gowithYamo: gowithyamo.com/blog/marina-abramovic-gates-and-portals-reviewFor more about Ocean Vuong's On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous (2019), hear contemporary artists Hoa Dung Clerget and Duong Thuy Nguyen, and gallerist Sarah Le Quang Sang, recorded live as part of the public programme for Only Your Name at SLQS Gallery in London, in July 2025: pod.link/1533637675/episode/NjZmOGE0MmQtZTk5Ni00NTQ1LWJjYjAtMmVjODYzNWMwYjdjFor more from Artists' Film International (AFI) 2025, read about Anca Benera and Arnold Estefán in this Letter from Timișoara, in Art Monthly: instagram.com/p/DFdBW0eoE55/And view Anca and Arnold's Rehearsals for Peace (2023) in Seeds of Hate and Hope, curated by Jelena Sofronijevic and Tafadzwa Makwabarara as part of Can We Stop Killing Each Other? at the Sainsbury Centre in Norwich, from 28 November 2025.PRODUCER: Jelena Sofronijevic.Follow EMPIRE LINES on Instagram: instagram.com/empirelinespodcastSupport EMPIRE LINES on Patreon: patreon.com/empirelines
Palaver by National Book Award finalist Bryan Washington is a moving story about mother and son, identity, home and humanity. Bryan joins us to talk about Tokyo, writing in 3rd person, navigating intimacy, utilizing space on the page, honesty, memory and more with host Miwa Messer. This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang. New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app. Featured Books (Episode): Palaver by Bryan Washington Lot by Bryan Washington Memorial by Bryan Washington Family Meal by Bryan Washington No Time to Spare: Thinking about What Matters by Ursula K. Le Guin Steering the Craft: A Twenty-First-Century Guide to Sailing the Sea of Story by Ursula K. Le Guin Koolaids by Rabih Alameddine The True True Story of Raja the Gullible by Rabih Alameddine A Guardian and a Thief by Megha Majumdar The Antidote by Karen Russell North Sun: Or, the Voyage of the Whaleship Esther by Ethan Rutherford Featured Books (TBR Top Off): Middle Spoon by Alejandro Varela The Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong
In Ep. 210, Laura McGrath, author of the popular Substack newsletter, textCrunch, joins Sarah to take a sharp look at the State of the Publishing Industry in 2025. This packed episode covers a high-level look at the top sales and book trends, as well as Laura's insights into the future of the book world for 2026. Also, Laura shares her favorite books of 2025! This post contains affiliate links through which I make a small commission when you make a purchase (at no cost to you!). CLICK HERE for the full episode Show Notes on the blog. Highlights Laura McGrath's book Middlemen (publishing April 28, 2026) is available for pre-order here: Amazon | Bookshop.org Fiction's performance in the sales charts since 2019. The trend seen in nonfiction over the past few years and where it may be headed. The continued debate about whether 2025 has a "Book of the Year." Surprising sales trends in religious books and imprints. How self-publishing still brings us successful authors. What Laura sees in her research that she thinks publishers should be paying attention to. A bit about the current outlook for mid-list and debut authors. Laura's predictions for 2026 book trends. State of the Publishing Industry in 2025 HIGH-LEVEL OVERVIEW [2:45] Onyx Storm (Empyrean, 3) by Rebecca Yarros (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [7:49] Fourth Wing (series, 1) by Rebecca Yarros | Amazon | Bookshop.org [8:58] The Women by Kristin Hannah (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [9:21] James by Percival Everett (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [9:59] The God of the Woods by Liz Moore (2024) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [10:02] Flashlight by Susan Choi (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [10:25] The Dream Hotel by Laila Lalami (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [11:58] The Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [12:04] A Guardian and a Thief by Leela Tapryal (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [12:31] The Names by Florence Knapp (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [13:19] Audition by Katie Kitamura (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [13:57] The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [13:59] 2025 BOOK SALES & TRENDS [14:41] The Martian by Andy Weir (2011) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [17:03] The River Is Waiting by Wally Lamb (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [21:38] The Bright Years by Sarah Damoff (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [21:40] Heart the Lover by Lily King (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [21:42] BIG BOOK STORIES OF 2025 [30:18] Catch-22 by Joseph Heller (1961) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [33:30] V by Thomas Pynchon (1963) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [33:32] Portnoy's Complaint by Philip Roth (1969) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [33:41] The Intuitionist by Colson Whitehead (1999) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [33:47] The Mothers by Brit Bennett (2016) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [33:54] 2026 PUBLISHING PREDICTIONS [42:29] Audition by Katie Kitamura (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [4:41] Pick a Color by Souvankham Thammavongsa (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [43:55] Discipline by Larissa Pham (January 20, 2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [45:01] Under Water by Tara Menon (March 17, 2026) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [45:07] Laura's 3 Favorites Books of 2025 [45:31] Culpability by Bruce Holsinger (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [46:17] Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghey (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org[47:59] The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy (2025) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [49:38] Other Links The New York Times | The Dogged, Irrational Persistence of Literary Fictionby Gerald Howard The Walrus | Publishing Has a Gambling Problem by Tajja Isen Time | How Taylor Jenkins Reid Became a Publishing Powerhouse by Lucy Feldman Book Riot | How Much Does Genre Matter to Readers? (Podcast Episode) Public Books | Who Cares About Literary Prizes? by Alexander Manshel, Laura B. Mcgrath, & J. D. Porter
Beyond the Page: The Best of the Sun Valley Writers’ Conference
In this episode – recorded live at the 2025 Writers Conference – I have an intimate conversation, in front of 1500 people, with the novelist and poet Ocean Vuong. When he was two years old, in 1990, Ocean immigrated with his family from Vietnam. They settled in East Hartford, CT, seven relatives sharing a one-bedroom apartment. His mother worked at a nail salon. When Ocean learned to read at 11, he became the first literate member of his family. Then he became the first to attend college, eventually earning an MFA in writing from NYU. In 2016, he published his debut poetry collection, “Night Sky with Exit Wounds,” which drew immediate attention and acclaim. In 2019, his first autobiographical novel, “On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous,” written in the form of letters from a Vietnamese American son to his mother, became a bestseller and led to his being awarded a MacArthur Genius grant. By every outward sign, he had seemingly achieved the American Dream as a writer. Then his mother, who'd never been able to read his books, died of cancer. Another celebrated poetry collection, “Time is a Mother,” followed. And now we have Ocean's magnificent second novel, “The Emperor of Gladness.” Photo credit – Tom Hines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In the new novel Pick a Colour, the answer to that question is a resounding yes. The debut novel from Souvankham Thammavongsa centres on Ning, the owner of a nail salon. Before she was a nail technician, Ning was a boxer … and she hasn't completely shrugged off those instincts from the ring. Souvankham won the Giller Prize in 2020 for her story collection How to Pronounce Knife, and her new novel is shortlisted for this year's prize. She joins Mattea Roach to talk about her fondness for nail salons, the weight of names and what being in the boxing ring taught her about herself.Liked this conversation? Keep listening:Ocean Vuong finds beauty in a fast food shift For Indigenous players, ice hockey is a ceremony of its own
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh's deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. This is the recording of our second live public event, which recently took place in London. Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined on stage by special guest Ocean Vuong, Vietnamese American poet, essayist, and novelist. Their conversation explores the themes of joy, togetherness, and cultivating courage in the face of hardship and suffering; the role of language, narrative, and technology in shaping modern experiences of suffering and joy; intergenerational trauma; and more. All three share personal experiences and insights about finding meaning and community amidst individual and collective challenges. Ocean recollects the way that, growing up in a community impacted by the opioid crisis, Buddhism and the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh provided solace and a path to understanding suffering, while Brother Phap Huu reflects on his journey to become a Zen Buddhist monk, and the role of kindness, fearlessness, and vulnerability in his practice. The discussion culminates with a chant offered by Ocean as a message of hope and resilience in the face of adversity. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Ocean Vuong https://www.oceanvuong.com Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnouthttps://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/ Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious Worldhttps://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/ Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing W. S. Merwinhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._S._Merwin Harry Beecher Stowehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Beecher_Stowe Tom Brokawhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brokaw Duḥkhahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5kha Ford Model Thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T The Dhammapadahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammapada Anaphorahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphora_(rhetoric) Schadenfreudehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude ‘Bright Morning Star'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Morning_Star ‘The Five Earth Touchings'https://plumvillage.org/key-practice-texts/the-five-earth-touchings Quotes “When drinking water, remember the source.” “On the last day of the world / I would want to plant a tree / what for / not for the fruit […] / I want the tree that stands / in the earth for the first time / with the sun already / going down” – from ‘Place' by W.S. Merwin. “Being a Vietnamese person in the diaspora, for many of us, the temple or the church or what have you is the place where we hear Vietnamese at the longest unbroken duration. Whereas someone native to Vietnam would hear it all the time. So, to this day, the Vietnamese language, to me, elicits this collective desire to heal and understand suffering. And it’s very specific to the immigrant. It’s what I call a third culture: there’s nothing like it in the homeland; there’s nothing like it in the assimilated American ethos. But there’s this special place that displacement and violence created.” “In Plum Village, when I first entered, I was 13 years old, and I touched a kind of kindness that I’d never touched before. And I asked myself whether I could be a kind person. I think I’m good; I think I’m going to have a career of offering smiles.” “I invite us, as a collective, to invoke this peace that we can bring in our hearts and into the world at this moment. Body, speech, and mind in perfect oneness. I send my heart along with the sound of this bell. May the hearers awaken from forgetfulness and transcend the path of anxiety and sorrow.” “Just a smile can save someone’s life.” “Technology was supposed to bring us together. This is the promise of the Enlightenment. But it’s interesting that all technological movements or renaissances are controlled by the wealthy and the elites. So what I’m interested in, as a writer, as a teacher, is that so much of our world is about material resources and narrative. And this is why I tell my students, ‘They shame you for being a poet, for being a writer: “Oh, you’re doing this liberal arts, naval-gazing, decadent thing, dreaming”' – but the politicians and the elites are poets too. The greatest political speech is the anaphora. Walt Whitman used it as a catalog, but you hear it: ‘We will heal the working class, we will heal the great divide, I will solve, we will heal this country’s heart, we will heal the middle class.' And that's why the anaphora is so useful: because it doesn’t have to explain itself.” “All those in power are also poets. They’re manipulating meaning, but for votes, for profit, for power, towards fascism. And no wonder the system is designed to make you ashamed to be an artist. It’s so interesting, isn’t it, that, in the art world, we’re often asked to be humble, to be grateful for a seat at the table; to perform humility. And I think humility is good; as a Buddhist, I believe in it, but there is a discrepancy here: we never tell people on Wall Street to be humble. You never hear someone say, ‘You know what, we killed it last quarter, so let’s tone it down and be grateful that we have a seat at the economic table.'” “Kindness is more difficult now than ever because I think kindness is something that is deeply dependent on our proximity to suffering. It’s harder for us to comprehend suffering, now. Schadenfreude is in our hands and it’s always easier to see. We’ve normalized suffering so much that we’ve been disassociated from it.” “We speak about inclusiveness and equanimity in Buddhism, but we’re not equal. Some of us are born in places where we have more privileges: in a particular race, in a particular situation, in a particular year. But what is equal is, as human beings, we’re all going to grow old, we’re all going to get sick, we’re all going to have to let go of what we think is permanent. And we’re going to learn to live deeply in the present moment.” “Sadness becomes not just a feeling, but knowledge. So think about sadness as knowledge, as potential, and that anger even has an aftermath. And you realize that the aftermath of anger is care.” “The big trouble with masculinity is that we are not given the ability or the permission to feel and be vulnerable – but we are encouraged to have absolute agency. It’s incredible. It’s a perfect storm of violence: ‘Don’t feel, don’t interrogate, and don’t be vulnerable. But, meanwhile, go get ‘em, buddy.'” “Under our greatest fear is our greatest strength.” “Camus says that writing itself is optimism, because it’s suffering shared. Even if you write about the darkest things, it is optimistic because someone else will recognize it. And recognition is a democratic ideal, because it means that one feeling could then be taken and collaborated with.” “It’s really hard to convince people to go to war, historically. You need a lot of text, you need a lot of airwaves, you need a lot of speeches to convince people to go to war – but it's very easy to convince people to stop war. Very easy for people to stop armament. Difficult for folks who are in control to keep it up, but if you ask the general population, ‘Do you want peace?', it’s quick. So that gives me a little hope.” “In fast food is a kind of sinister beauty, because it’s an industrialized promise of absolute replication of fulfillment – and yet it’s a kind of poison as well. It’s like the ultimate democratic ideal, sadly: we can’t have equality, income equality, or healthcare, but we can all eat McDonald’s French fries, and, whether you’re a billionaire or a houseless person, it will taste the same. Likewise with Coca-Cola, etc. In a way it’s the sinister capaciousness of the American dream: you can all feel the same thing while you’re all slowly dying.”
Novelist and poet, Ocean Vuong, traces his family's path from Vietnam to a refugee camp in the Philippines to a new life in Connecticut. He reflects on the beauty and the brutality of American fast food, and how long days on a tobacco farm shaped both his writing and his sense of self. Plus, he shares his family's recipe for canh chua—a delicious Vietnamese soup that's less time-intensive than pho! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Welcome to the 93rd episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh's deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino explore the art of transmission in Buddhism: wisdom and teachings being passed down over time, from teacher to student. The hosts touch on the profound and nuanced ways in which Buddhist teachings and insights are passed down through generations, with the goal of cultivating understanding, compassion, and liberation; the role of nature as a powerful transmitter of wisdom; the significance of rituals and ceremonies in honoring this transmission; and more. Brother Phap Huu emphasizes the importance of deep listening, humility, and direct experience in the transmission process, and how true transmission goes beyond the imparting of knowledge, to a requirement that both teacher and student be in a state of non-self and openness to receive the teachings. Enjoy! Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Live show: The Way Out Is In podcast with special guest Ocean Vuong plumvillage.uk/livepodcastInterbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village'https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village Dharma Talk: ‘The Five Powers: Faith, Diligence, Mindfulness, Concentration, Insight – Brother Phap Huu'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4PGrMjea7A Album: A Cloud Never Dieshttps://plumvillage.org/album-a-cloud-never-dies The Way Out Is In: ‘Feel It to Heal It: The Dharma of Music (Episode #79)'https://plumvillage.org/podcast/feel-it-to-heal-it-the-dharma-of-music-episode-79 Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths'https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths Quotes “Live happily in the present moment: ‘I have arrived; I am home.'” “If we truly receive the Dharma, honestly and openly, by its nature we want to share it. It doesn’t start with us, doesn’t end with us. Instead, we are part of this extraordinary flow of life.” “Listening is the first doorway to communication. And many of us think that communication is about speaking or writing. But the foundation for speaking and for writing is listening.” “When the Buddha embarked on a spiritual quest, he was looking for an understanding of suffering and a liberation from suffering. And the way of liberation from suffering is to be in suffering, to understand suffering, to embrace it and not run away from it, but transform it. Therefore, Buddhism is a way of life. So mindfulness is a way of life. Transmission is a way of life.” “When you hear the sound of the bell in the Plum Village tradition, you’re invited to pause and stop what you're doing. Even if you’re listening to music, or having a wonderful, insightful conversation, you are invited to pause, to stop. And that stopping is a transmission of knowing how to cultivate stillness in life, in order to listen.” “What we say, how we say it, and the tone of saying it creates a reality. That creates a transmission of knowledge, a transmission of feelings, a transmission of energy.” “Buddhism is a very generous tradition. The Buddha offers, the teachers offer – and you’re the receiver. You can receive. Using the language of ‘I am receiving' is very different from ‘I am taking.' Or, even worse, ‘I am stealing.' Because stealing indicates that something is now yours; it belongs to you. But when you receive, you gain a responsibility to transmit.” “To receive, we have to ask.”
Welcome to episode 92 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh's deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined by special guest Jo-ann Rosen. Together, they discuss individual and collective trauma and how mindfulness and neuroscience can help address it. The conversation further explores the concepts of current and historical trauma, how the nervous system can become overwhelmed by modern stresses, the courage required to be vulnerable and honest about our suffering, how this can lead to deeper connections and understanding within a community – and more. Jo-ann, a psychotherapist with expertise in trauma and mindfulness, shares her personal journey of discovering the Plum Village tradition and how it has informed her understanding of trauma. She emphasizes the importance of collective healing, drawing from her work with marginalized communities and the power of creating safe spaces for people to share their experiences and find support in each other. Brother Phap Huu also shares his experiences of supporting the Plum Village monastic community and retreatants in cultivating stability and healing through mindfulness practices. BioDharma Teacher Jo-ann Rosen, True River of Understanding, Chan Tue Ha (pronouns she/her), received the Lamp of Wisdom (symbolizing the transmission of Dharma from Zen Master to disciple) and authorization to teach from Thich Nhat Hanh in 2012. She practices with the EMBRACE and Victoria Sanghas, is a licensed marriage and family therapist, and teaches and lectures internationally, focusing on inner stability and community resiliency. Her writings center on a neuroscience-informed and trauma-sensitive approach to individual practice and collective awakening. She lives with her partner of 40 years in the oak woodlands of Northern California, US. Photo by Leslie Kirkpatrick Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Live show: The Way Out Is In podcast with special guest Ocean Vuong plumvillage.uk/livepodcast Embrace Sanghahttps://www.embracesangha.org/ Unshakeable: Trauma-Informed Mindfulness for Collective Awakeninghttps://www.parallax.org/product/unshakeable On the Plum Village App > Meditations > Trauma Informed Practice Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing The Miracle of Mindfulness https://plumvillage.shop/products/books/personal-growth-and-self-care/the-miracle-of-mindfulness-2 Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths'https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths Thich Nhat Hanh: Redefining the Four Noble Truthshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eARDko51Xdw ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village'https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village Quotes “The nervous system evolves very slowly. It doesn’t change overnight. Ten thousand years is nothing in terms of your nervous system changing. So this nervous system I’m running around in is evolved for a hunter-gatherer. It’s not evolved for being in a car at a stoplight or having somebody demand things of me that I’m incapable of doing. Then I start to be nervous as if I’m going to die. That’s so bewildering. So as I learned more and more about the neuroscience, it was this great relief: ‘I’m not broken. I’m okay. I don’t have to hide what I can’t do.'” “We’re all suffering from the expectation that we can function in this crazy world when our nervous system is not made for unrelenting stresses. And when we experience unrelenting stresses without good social support, our nervous system is overwhelmed and expresses that in a variety of ways. But the first line of what this neuroscience stuff can do is make us realize that we’re acting normally in a very tragic situation that we're just not made for.” “I really shy away from the word ‘trauma', because it has a very particular spin right now. That’s not to say that deep-trauma therapists and super astute neuroscientists in labs and scanners, et cetera, aren’t making a huge contribution to the understanding of trauma. But I would like to take the word out and instead say, ‘We’re dealing with things that we’re not built for.'” “To put it crudely, the nervous system creates certain states of mind that are purely about well-being – and we can savor those. But then we have certain states of mind which require more alertness and more activity in our bodies. That’s not bad; we have all the mental formations in there and can handle it without being carried away. And one of the things that neuroscience can bring to our understanding of Thay’s teachings is a little better sense of, ‘What does it mean to be carried away? How can I tell when I’m carried away?' Because that’s really foundational in our practice.” “Is our practice something that will heal traumas? Well, sometimes. And sometimes not. So it's not an ‘either' or ‘but'; what we’ve been working with is how to help ourselves regulate our nervous systems so we can practice, because practice is so much bigger than any trauma that we have.” “Mindfulness means that you can be triggered, but know how to be with the emotions that are being triggered – so that you can be a part of the world, engaging with the world, engaging with yourself.” “To walk together, that’s very healing. To listen together, to feel safe, that’s very healing. And that is teaching our nervous system the feeling of safety, to allow us to also touch our empathy. So, when we see others who are not in safety, we have empathy; we want to do everything in our capacity to transform that part of society.” “There is no way to healing; healing is the way.”
Stephen returns to the Pod Show to play a new game showcasing the unique etymology of life at The Late Show before launching into his extended conversation with poet, bestselling author and McArthur Genius Grant recipient Ocean Vuong. His latest book, "The Emperor of Gladness," is available now. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
In this heartfelt conversation from 2020, celebrated poet Andrea Gibson shares intimate wisdom on creativity, identity, and embracing life fully, including soul-stirring performances of their cherished poems. Gibson, whose memorable works include "You Better Be Lightning," brings gentle wisdom and profound insight to this meaningful discussion, now shared as a loving tribute.You can find Andrea's work at: Website | Instagram | Episode TranscriptIf you LOVED this episode, you'll also love the conversations we had with Ocean Vuong about navigating struggle and making peace with his story.Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the WheelVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
This week on Modern Love, we're bringing you a conversation we liked so much that we're envious we didn't get to have ourselves. In a raw but deeply heartfelt and compassionate conversation with “The Interview" host David Marchese, author and poet Ocean Vuong talks about the real reason he became a writer. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
If hope is to be defining and forceful in the world we have to remake ahead of us, we must also speak hope into being. Ocean Vuong is a fascinating and singular person. The sweep of his work is about bearing witness to the other side of violence and the possibility of joy while taking nothing away and continuing to bear witness to the fullness of what has been carried and what has been survived. And he is wise about the violence of language that is habitually, culturally instinctive — and how changing that is key to shaping our very presence to others and to this world.Journaling prompts for Session 4As you move through these days, get really attentive in every moment to this world's fluency in the language of violence — the vividness and omnipresence of words that engender fear and despair. Notice, and write down the easy metaphors of death and war that are used everywhere from the news to casual conversations to social media, about everything from relationships to politics to the weather. Notice the death and violence metaphors that come naturally in the way you speak.What happens when you alter your language? What does it mean to take off the shoes of your voice?We've created a beautiful journal for the whole seven weeks, with full-size printable pages, that you can download for free HERE.A Possible Way to Organize This ExperienceTake each week's brief listening offering, each around 15 minutes long, as a meditation to move through the week ahead. And as none of the great virtues — and certainly not hope — is meant to be carried alone, we encourage you to undertake this experience alongside others, perhaps your life partner or family or colleagues or friends, book group or study group.For example, you could:● Listen to one Wisdom Practice (roughly 15 minutes) — together or separately — around the same time each week. Listen again and/or read the transcript as often as is useful.● Carry the ideas, invitations, and journal prompts for the session into your ordinary interactions of the days that follow.● Commit to some time journaling every day, even if just for a few minutes or a few words.● Meet with or Zoom/call your companion(s) at the end of the week to share, converse, commune.The Hope Portal and this series are adventures in opening the deep enduring teaching that lives inside the 20 years of On Being. We would be so grateful if you would let us know how it goes for you and how it might be refined, by writing to us at mail@onbeing.org. Sign yourself and others up for The Pause to be first to know about all things On Being and to receive Krista's monthly Saturday morning newsletter, including a heads-up on new episodes, special offerings, recommendations, and event invitations.
Poet and novelist Ocean Vuong talks with Tonya Mosley about his new novel, The Emperor of Gladness. Set in a fictional small town in Connecticut, it follows a 19 year old grappling with addiction and despair, who forms an unexpected bond with an 82-year-old widow living with dementia. Also, book critic Maureen Corrigan has a review of the book. And, we hear from comedian Atsuko Okatsuka. She's known for finding humor in the dysfunction of her immigrant family, and the daily responsibilities of being an adult. Her new standup special is about her father, who reappeared in her life after decades away.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss the ominous juxtaposition of Trump sending National Guard troops and Marines to quell mostly peaceful protests in LA with his impending military parade in DC, RFK Jr. firing the entire CDC vaccine advisory board and what this means for the future of vaccines, and a unanimous Supreme Court decision that makes it easier to win “reverse discrimination” cases.Here are this week's chatters: Emily: David Marchese for the New York Times: The Interview: Ocean Vuong Was Ready to Kill. Then a Moment of Grace Changed His Life; Ocean Vuong for the New York Times (Opinion): My Brother's Keeper. John: The University of Cambridge: Medieval Murder Maps; podcast series: Medieval Murders. Juliette: Graham Dunbar for the Associated Press: What the Trump travel ban means for the 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympic Games; Chelsea Jones for CBS News Miami: Will ICE agents be at Miami's FIFA Club World Cup games? Sheriff Cordero-Stutz responds after deleted CBP post. Listener chatter from Katie Johnston in Bangor, Northern Ireland: Sophie Hardach for the BBC: How the humble chestnut traced the rise and fall of the Roman Empire For this week's Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss favorite dark comedy drama Hacks, which tackles the relationship between two women of differing generations and clashing opinions with witty banter and emotional richness. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss the ominous juxtaposition of Trump sending National Guard troops and Marines to quell mostly peaceful protests in LA with his impending military parade in DC, RFK Jr. firing the entire CDC vaccine advisory board and what this means for the future of vaccines, and a unanimous Supreme Court decision that makes it easier to win “reverse discrimination” cases. Here are this week's chatters: Emily: David Marchese for the New York Times: The Interview: Ocean Vuong Was Ready to Kill. Then a Moment of Grace Changed His Life; Ocean Vuong for the New York Times (Opinion): My Brother's Keeper. John: The University of Cambridge: Medieval Murder Maps; podcast series: Medieval Murders. Juliette: Graham Dunbar for the Associated Press: What the Trump travel ban means for the 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympic Games; Chelsea Jones for CBS News Miami: Will ICE agents be at Miami's FIFA Club World Cup games? Sheriff Cordero-Stutz responds after deleted CBP post. Listener chatter from Katie Johnston in Bangor, Northern Ireland: Sophie Hardach for the BBC: How the humble chestnut traced the rise and fall of the Roman Empire For this week's Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss favorite dark comedy drama Hacks, which tackles the relationship between two women of differing generations and clashing opinions with witty banter and emotional richness. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss the ominous juxtaposition of Trump sending National Guard troops and Marines to quell mostly peaceful protests in LA with his impending military parade in DC, RFK Jr. firing the entire CDC vaccine advisory board and what this means for the future of vaccines, and a unanimous Supreme Court decision that makes it easier to win “reverse discrimination” cases.Here are this week's chatters: Emily: David Marchese for the New York Times: The Interview: Ocean Vuong Was Ready to Kill. Then a Moment of Grace Changed His Life; Ocean Vuong for the New York Times (Opinion): My Brother's Keeper. John: The University of Cambridge: Medieval Murder Maps; podcast series: Medieval Murders. Juliette: Graham Dunbar for the Associated Press: What the Trump travel ban means for the 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympic Games; Chelsea Jones for CBS News Miami: Will ICE agents be at Miami's FIFA Club World Cup games? Sheriff Cordero-Stutz responds after deleted CBP post. Listener chatter from Katie Johnston in Bangor, Northern Ireland: Sophie Hardach for the BBC: How the humble chestnut traced the rise and fall of the Roman Empire For this week's Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss favorite dark comedy drama Hacks, which tackles the relationship between two women of differing generations and clashing opinions with witty banter and emotional richness. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss the ominous juxtaposition of Trump sending National Guard troops and Marines to quell mostly peaceful protests in LA with his impending military parade in DC, RFK Jr. firing the entire CDC vaccine advisory board and what this means for the future of vaccines, and a unanimous Supreme Court decision that makes it easier to win “reverse discrimination” cases. Here are this week's chatters: Emily: David Marchese for the New York Times: The Interview: Ocean Vuong Was Ready to Kill. Then a Moment of Grace Changed His Life; Ocean Vuong for the New York Times (Opinion): My Brother's Keeper. John: The University of Cambridge: Medieval Murder Maps; podcast series: Medieval Murders. Juliette: Graham Dunbar for the Associated Press: What the Trump travel ban means for the 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympic Games; Chelsea Jones for CBS News Miami: Will ICE agents be at Miami's FIFA Club World Cup games? Sheriff Cordero-Stutz responds after deleted CBP post. Listener chatter from Katie Johnston in Bangor, Northern Ireland: Sophie Hardach for the BBC: How the humble chestnut traced the rise and fall of the Roman Empire For this week's Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss favorite dark comedy drama Hacks, which tackles the relationship between two women of differing generations and clashing opinions with witty banter and emotional richness. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Poet and novelist Ocean Vuong joins us to discuss his new novel, The Emperor of Gladness. Set in a fictional small town in Connecticut, it follows a 19-year-old grappling with addiction and despair, who forms an unexpected bond with an 82-year-old widow living with dementia. Together, they navigate memory and survival. He also talks about teaching and why he's put an end date on the number of books he'll write in his lifetime.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Beginning today, and for the next six weeks in the On Being podcast feed and Substack, we're opening a reflection/course experience curated by Krista and drawing upon her conversations with several visionary humans: adrienne maree brown, Naomi Shihab Nye, Ocean Vuong, Joy Harjo, Joanna Macy, and Ross Gay. Together, they extend rich and actionable invitations for a muscular, reality-based hope. They offer ways of seeing and living to lay our hands and our hearts, our imaginations and life force on the generative possibilities of life in this time. Journaling Prompts for Session 1Preparing inwardly after listening, ask these questions:Right now, today, what is filling you with despair? And what is giving you hope?What is hope? Answer this question through the story of your life.Who have been the “live human signposts” of muscular hope in your life across time? Hold their faces and the qualities of their presence in your heart and in your mind's eye in the days to come.We've created a beautiful journal for the whole seven weeks, with full-size printable pages, that you can download for free HERE.A Possible Way to Organize This ExperienceTake each week's brief listening offering, each around 15 minutes long, as a meditation to move through the week ahead. And as none of the great virtues — and certainly not hope — is meant to be carried alone, we encourage you to undertake this experience alongside others, perhaps your life partner or family or colleagues or friends, book group or study group.For example, you could:● Listen to one Wisdom Practice (roughly 15 minutes) — together or separately — around the same time each week. Listen again and/or read the transcript as often as is useful.● Carry the ideas, invitations, and journal prompts for the session into your ordinary interactions of the days that follow.● Commit to some time journaling every day, even it's just for a few minutes or a few words.● Meet with or Zoom/call your companion(s) at the end of the week to share, converse, commune.The Hope Portal and this series are adventures in opening the deep enduring teaching that lives inside the 20 years of On Being. We would be so grateful if you would let us know how it goes for you and how it might be refined, by writing to us at mail@onbeing.org.Sign yourself and others up for The Pause to be first to know about all things On Being and to receive Krista's monthly Saturday morning newsletter, including a heads-up on new episodes, special offerings, recommendations, and event invitations.
Escola gives former first lady Mary Todd Lincoln a wild second act in the Tony-nominated play Oh, Mary! "This play is about a woman with a dream that no one around her understands," Escola says. The actor spoke with Ann Marie Baldonado about growing up in rural Oregon, the inspiration for the play, and making sense of its surprise success. Maureen Corrigan reviews Ocean Vuong's new novel, The Emperor of Gladness.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Glennon's son, Chase, joins Glennon for a special conversation with his hero, author Ocean Vuong, to discuss: 1. Chase shares with Ocean the impact his work has had in his life–and Glennon thanks Ocean for helping mother her son. 2. What Ocean learned from his mother about how to navigate being an Asian boy in America–and Glennon's recognition that she did not prepare Chase for the same realities. 3. Ocean's new book, Time is a Mother, and why watching his own mother die gave Ocean a deep empathy and connection to every person. 4. His relationship to maleness–and why Ocean is interested in “staying and complicating” masculinity. About Ocean: Ocean Vuong, author of the critically acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds, and the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous is a recipient of the 2019 MacArthur "Genius Grant" and the winner of the Whiting Award and the T. S. Eliot Prize. In Time Is a Mother, Ocean's newest poetry collection available now, he reckons with his mother's death, embodying the paradox of sitting within grief while being determined to survive beyond it. His writings have been featured in The Atlantic, Harper's Magazine, The Nation, The New Republic, The New Yorker, and The New York Times. Born in Saigon, Vietnam, he currently lives in Northampton, Massachusetts. IG: ocean_vuong To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
What happens when a voice emerges? What happens when one is lost? Is something gained? A couple months ago, Lulu guest edited an issue of the nature magazine Orion. She called the issue “Queer Planet: A Celebration of Biodiversity,” and it was a wide-ranging celebration of queerness in nature. It featured work by amazing writers like Ocean Vuong, Kristen Arnett, Carmen Maria Machado and adrienne maree brown, among many others. But one piece in particular struck Lulu as something that was really meant to be made into audio, an essay called “Key Changes,” by the writer Sabrina Imbler. If their name sounds familiar, it might be because they've been on the show before. In this episode, we bring you Sabrina's essay – which takes us from the beginning of time, to a field of crickets, to a karaoke bar – read by the phenomenal actor Becca Blackwell, and scored by our director of sound design Dylan Keefe. Stay to the end for a special surprise … from Amy Ray of the Indigo Girls!Special thanks to Jay Gallagher from UC Davis.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Sabrina ImblerProduced by - Annie McEwen and Pat Walterswith help from - Maria Paz GutiérrezOriginal music from - Dylan KeefeFact-checking by - Kim Schmidtand Edited by - Tajja Isen and Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:Articles - Check out Queer Planet: A Celebration of Biodiversity, Orion Magazine (Spring 2025)Read Sabrina Imbler's original essay, “Key Changes,” Orion Magazine (Spring 2025)Read Lulu Miller's mini-essay, “Astonishing Immobility,” Orion Magazine (Spring 2025)Check out Sabrina Imbler's Defector column Creaturefector all about animalsAudio - Listen to Amy Ray's song “Chuck Will's Widow” from her solo album If It All Goes SouthBooks - How Far the Light Reaches: A Life in Ten Sea Creatures, by Sabrina ImblerSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
The poet and novelist on the real reason he became a writer.Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.