Live Like the World is Dying

Episode Notes This week on Live Like the World is Dying, we have another re-run episode. Margaret and Smokey talk about ways to go about mental first aid, how to alter responses to trauma for you self and as a community, different paths to resiliency, and why friendship and community are truly the best medicine. Host Info Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript LLWD:Smokey on Mental First Aid Margaret 00:15 Hello and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast are what feels like the end times. I'm your host, Margaret killjoy. And, this week or month...or let's just go with 'episode'. This episode is going to be all about mental health and mental health first aid and ways to take care of your mental health and ways to help your community and your friends take care of their mental health, and I think you'll like it. But first, this podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero network of anarchists podcasts. And here's a jingle from another show on the network. Margaret 01:52 Okay, with me today is Smokey. Smokey, could you introduce yourself with your your name, your pronouns, and I guess a little bit about your background about mental health stuff? Smokey 02:04 Sure, I'm Smokey. I live and work in New York City. My pronouns are 'he' and 'him.' For 23 years, I've been working with people managing serious mental illness in an intentional community, I have a degree in psychology, I have taught psychology at the University level, I have been doing social work for a long time, but I've been an anarchist longer. Margaret 02:43 So so the reason I want to have you on is I want to talk about mental health first aid, or I don't know if that's the way it normally gets expressed, but that's the way I see it in my head. Like how are...I guess it's a big question, but I'm interested in exploring ways that we can, as bad things happen that we experience, like some of the best practices we can do in order to not have that cause lasting mental harm to us. Which is a big question. But maybe that's my first question anyway. Smokey 03:12 I mean, the, the truth is bad things will happen to us. It's part of living in the world, and if you are a person that is heavily engaged in the world, meaning, you know, you're involved in politics, or activism, or even just curious about the world, you will probably be exposed on a more regular basis to things that are bad, that can traumatize us. But even if you're not involved in any of those things, you're going to go through life and have really difficult things happen to you. Now, the good news is, that's always been the case for people. We've always done this. And the good news is, we actually know a lot about what goes into resilience. So, how do you bounce back quickly and hopefully thrive after these experiences? I think that is an area that's only now being really examined in depth. But, we have lots of stories and some research to show that actually when bad things happen to us, there is an approach that actually can help catalyst really impressive strength and move...change our life in a really positive direction. We also know that for most people, they have enough reserve of resiliency that....and they can draw upon other resiliency that they're not chronically affected by it, however, and I would argue how our society is kind of structured, we're seeing more and more people that are suffering from very serious chronic effects of, what you said, bad things happening, or what is often traumatic things but it's not just traumatic things that cause chronic problems for us. But, that is the most kind of common understanding so, so while most people with most events will not have a chronic problem, and you can actually really use those problems, those I'm sorry, those events, let's call them traumatic events, those traumatic events they'll really actually improve your thriving, improve your life and your relationship to others in the world. The fact is, currently, it's an ever growing number of people that are having chronic problems. And that's because of the system. Margaret 06:19 Yeah, there's this like, there was an essay a while ago about it, I don't remember it very well, but it's called "We Are Also Very Anxious," and it it was claiming that anxiety is one of the general affects of society today, because of kind of what you're talking about, about systems that set us up to be anxious all the time and handle things in... Smokey 06:42 I think what most people don't understand is, it is consciously, in the sense that it's not that necessarily it's the desire to have the end goal of people being anxious, and people being traumatized, but it is conscious in that we know this will be the collateral outcome of how we set up the systems. That I think is fairly unique and and really kind of pernicious. Margaret 07:17 What are some of the systems that are setting us up to be anxious or traumatized? Smokey 07:23 Well, I'm gonna reverse it a little bit, Margaret. I'm going to talk about what are the things we need to bounce back or have what has been called 'resilience,' and then you and I can explore how our different systems actually make us being able to access that much more difficult. Margaret 07:47 Okay. Oh, that makes sense. Smokey 07:49 The hallmark of resiliency, ironically, is that it's not individual. Margaret 07:57 Okay. Smokey 07:57 In fact, if you look at the research, there are very few, there's going to be a couple, there's gonna be three of them, but very few qualities of an individual psychology or makeup that is a high predictor of resiliency. Margaret 08:20 Okay. Smokey 08:21 And these three are kind of, kind of vague in the sense they're not, they're not terribly dramatic, in a sense. One is, people that tend to score higher on appreciation of humor, tends to be a moderate predictor of resiliency. Margaret 08:46 I like that one. Smokey 08:47 You don't have to be funny yourself. But you can appreciate humor. Seems to be a....and this is tends to be a cross cultural thing. It's pretty low. There are plenty of people that that score very low on that, that also have resiliency. That's the other thing, I'll say that these three personality traits are actually low predictors of resiliency. Margaret 09:13 Compared to the immunity ones that you're gonna talk about? Smokey 09:16 So one is appreciation of humor seems to be one. So, these are intrinsic things that, you know, maybe we got from our family, but but we hold them in ourselves, right? The second one is usually kind of put down as 'education.' And there tends to be a reverse bell curve. If you've had very, very low education, you tend to be more resilient. If you've had extreme professionalization, you know, being a doctor, being a lawyer, well, not even being a lawyer, because that's the only...but many, many years of schooling, PhD things like that, it's not what you study. There's something about... Smokey 10:10 Yeah, or that you didn't. They're almost equal predictors of who gets traumatized. And then the the last one is kind of a 'sense of self' in that it's not an ego strength as we kind of understand it, but it is an understanding of yourself. The people that take the surveys, that they score fairly high....So I give you a survey and say, "What do you think about Smokey on these different attributes?" You give me a survey and say, "Smokey, how would you rate yourself on these different attributes?" Margaret 10:11 It's that you studied. Margaret 10:32 Okay. Smokey 10:59 So, it's suggesting that I have some self-reflexivity about what my strengths and weaknesses are. I can only know that because they're married by these also. Margaret 11:11 Okay. So it's, it's not about you rating yourself high that makes you resilient, it's you rating yourself accurately tohow other people see you. Smokey 11:18 And again, I want to stress that these are fairly low predictors. Now, you'll read a million books, kind of pop like, or the, these other ones. But when you actually look at the research, it's not, you know, it's not that great. So those..however, the ones that are big are things like 'robustness of the social network.' So how many relations and then even more, if you go into depth, 'what are those relationships' and quantity does actually create a certain level of quality, interestingly, especially around things called 'micro-social interactions,' which are these interactions that we don't even think of as relationships, maybe with storepersons, how many of these we have, and then certain in depth, having that combined with a ring of kind of meaningful relationships. And meaningful meaning not necessarily who is most important to me, but how I share and, and share my emotions and my thoughts and things like that. So, there's a lot on that. That is probably the strongest predictor of resilience. Another big predictor of resilience is access to diversity in our social networks. So, having diverse individuals tend to give us more resiliency, and having 'time,' processing time, also gives us more...are high predictors of resiliency, the largest is a 'sense of belonging.' Margaret 13:14 Okay. Smokey 13:15 So that trauma...events that affect our sense of belonging, and this is why children who have very limited opportunities to feel a sense of belonging, which are almost always completely limited, especially for very young children to the family, if that is cut off due to the trauma, or it's already dysfunctional and has nothing to do with the trauma, that sense of belonging, that lack of sense of belonging makes it very difficult to maintain resilience. So. So those are the things that, in a nutshell, we're going to be talking about later about 'How do we improve these?' and 'How do we maximize?' And 'How do we leverage these for Mental Health First Aid?' We can see how things like the internet, social media, capitalism, you know, kind of nation state building, especially as we understand it today, all these kinds of things errode a lot of those things that we would want to see in building resilient people. Margaret 14:28 Right. Smokey 14:28 And, you know, making it more difficult to access those things that we would need. Margaret 14:34 No, that's...this...Okay, yeah, that makes it obvious that the answer to my question of "What are the systems that deny us resiliency?" are just all of this. Yeah, because we're like....most people don't have...there's that really depressing statistic or the series of statistics about the number of friends that adults have in our society, and how it keeps going down every couple of decades. Like, adults just have fewer and fewer friends. And that... Smokey 15:00 The number, the number is the same for children, though too. Margaret 15:05 Is also going down, is what you're saying? Smokey 15:07 Yes. They have more than adults. But compared to earlier times, they have less. So, the trend is not as steep as a trendline. But, but it is still going down. And more importantly, there was a big change with children at one point, and I'm not sure when it historically happened. But, the number of people they interacted with, was much more diverse around age. Margaret 15:39 Oh, interesting. Smokey 15:40 So they had access to more diversity. Margaret 15:43 Yeah, yeah. When you talk about access to diversity, I assume that's diversity in like a lot of different axis, right? I assume that's diversity around like people's like cultural backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, age. Like, but even like... Smokey 15:56 Modes of thought. Margaret 15:58 Yeah, well, that's is my guess, is that if you're around more people, you have more of an understanding that like, reality is complicated, and like different people see things in different ways. And so therefore, you have a maybe a less rigid idea of what should happen. So, then if something happens outside of that, you're more able to cope, or is this...does... like, because I look at each of these things and I can say why I assume they affect resiliency, but obviously, that's not what you're presenting, you're not presenting how they affect resiliency, merely that they seem to? Smokey 16:34 Yeah, and I don't know, if we know exactly how they affect, and we don't know how they...the effect of them together, you know, social sciences, still pretty primitive. So they, they need to look at single variables, often. But you know, we know with chemistry and biology and ecology, which I think are a little more sophisticated...and physics, which is more sophisticated. The real interesting stuff is in the combinations. Margaret 17:09 Yeah. Okay. Smokey 17:10 So what happens when you have, you know, diversity, but also this diverse and robust social network? Is that really an addition? Or is that a multiplication moment? For resiliency. Margaret 17:23 Right. And then how does that affect like, if that comes at the expense of...well, it probably wouldn't, but if it came at the expense of processing time or something. Smokey 17:33 Exactly. Margaret 17:35 Or, like, you know, okay, I could see how it would balance with education in that, like, I think for a lot of people the access to diversity that they encounter first is like going off to college, right, like meeting people from like, different parts of the world, or whatever. Smokey 17:49 I forgot to mention one other one, but it is, 'meaning.' Meaning is very important. People that score high, or report, meaning deep, kind of core meaning also tend to have higher resiliency. That being said, they...and don't, don't ever confuse resiliency with like, happiness or contentment. It just means that the dysfunction or how far you're knocked off track due to trauma, and we're, we're using trauma in the larger sense of the word, you know, how long it takes you to get back on track, or whether you can even get back on track to where you were prior to the event is what we're talking about. So it's not, this is not a guide to happiness or living a fulfilled life. It's just a guide to avoid the damage. Margaret 19:01 But if we made one that was a specifically a 'How to have a happy life,' I feel like we could sell it and then have a lot of money.Have you considered that? [lauging] Smokey 19:11 Well one could argue whether that's even desirable to have a happy life. That's a whole philosophical thing. That's well beyond my paygrade Margaret 19:22 Yeah, every now and then I have this moment, where I realized I'm in this very melancholy mood, and I'm getting kind of kind of happy about it. And I'm like, "Oh, I'm pretty comfortable with this. This is a nice spot for me." I mean, I also like happiness, too, but you know. Okay, so, this certainly implies that the, the way forward for anyone who's attempting to build resiliency, the sort of holistic solution is building community. Like in terms of as bad stuff happens. Is that... Smokey 19:58 Community that's...and community not being just groups. Okay, so you can, I think, you know, the Internet has become an expert at creating groups. There lots of groups. But community, or communitas or the sense of belonging is more than just a shared interest and a shared knowledge that there's other like-minded people. You'll hear the internet was great for like minded people to get together. But, the early internet was really about people that were sharing and creating meaning together. And I think that was very powerful. That, you know, that seems harder to access on today's Internet, and certainly the large social media platforms are consciously designed to achieve certain modes of experience, which do not lend themselves to that. Margaret 21:06 Right, because it's like the...I don't know the word for this. Smokey 21:10 It's Capitalism. Like, yeah, we're hiding the ball. The ball is Capitalism. Margaret 21:14 Yeah. Smokey 21:14 And how they decided to go with an advertising model as opposed to any other model, and that requires attention. Margaret 21:21 Yeah. Because it seems like when you talk about a robust social network, I mean, you know, theoretically, social network, like social networks, you know, Twitter calls itself a social network, right? And is there anything in the micro social interactions that one has online? Is there value in that? Or do you think that the overall...I mean, okay, because even like looking at... Smokey 21:46 I think there has to be value, I think, yeah, they did. I was reading just today, actually, about research, it was in England, with...this one hospital decided to send postcards to people who had been hospitalized for suicidal attempts. Margaret 22:09 Okay. Smokey 22:10 Most of them ended up in the mental health thing, some of them didn't, because they they left beyond, you know, against medical advice, or whatever. But, anyone that came in presenting with that a month, and then three months later, they sent another postcard just saying, "You know, we're all thinking about you, we're hoping you're all you're doing, alright. We have faith in you," that kind of thing like that, right. Nice postcard, purposely chosen to have a nice scene, sent it out. And they followed up, and they found a significant reduction in further attempts, rehospitalizations of these people, so that's a very, you know, there's no, it's a one way communication, it's not person-to-person, and it had some impact on I would guess one could argue the resiliency of those people from giving into suicidal ideation. Right. Margaret 23:13 Yeah. Smokey 23:14 So I think this is to say that, you know, we'd be...unplugging the internet, you know, that kind of Luddite approach doesn't make sense. There is a value to answer your question to the the internet's micro social interactions. It's just we...it's complicated, because you can't just have micro-social interactions unfortunately, but you need them. Margaret 23:44 Yeah. No, that that's really interesting to me, because yeah, so there's, there is a lot of value that is coming from these things, but then the overall effect is this like, like, for example, even like access to diversity, right? In a lot of ways, theoretically, the Internet gives you access to like everything. But then, instead, it's really designed to create echo chambers in the way that the algorithms and stuff feed people information. And echo chambers of thought is the opposite of diversity, even if the echo chamber of thought is like about diversity. Smokey 24:16 Yeah, I mean, it's set up again, almost as if it were to kind of naturally organically grow, we would probably have just as chaotic and and people would still just be as angry at the Internet, but it probably would develop more resilience in people. Because it wouldn't be stunted by this need to attract attention. The easiest way to do that is through outrage. Easiest way to do that is quickly and fast, so it takes care of your processing time. And relative anonymity is the coin of these kinds of things, you know, that's why bots and things like that, you know, they're not even humans, right? You know, they're just...so all these kinds of things stunt and deform, what could potentially be useful, not a silver bullet, and certainly not necessary to develop resiliency, strong resiliency. You don't need the internet to do that. And there are certain...using the internet, you know, there's going to be certain serious limitations because of the design, how it's designed. Margaret 25:42 Okay, well, so hear me out. If the internet really started coming in latter half of the 20th century, that kind of lines up to when cloaks went out of style.... Smokey 25:54 Absolutely, that's our big problem. And they haven't done any research on cloak and resiliency. Margaret 26:00 I feel that everyone who wears a cloak either has a sense of belonging, or a distinct lack of a sense of belonging. Probably start off with a lack of sense of belonging, but you end up with a sense of belonging So, okay, okay. Smokey 26:15 So I want to say that there's two things that people confuse and a very important. One, is how to prevent chronic effects from traumatic experiences. And then one is how to take care of, if you already have or you you develop a chronic effect of traumatic experiences. Nothing in the psychology literature, sociology literature, anthropology literature, obviously, keeps you from having traumatic experiences. Margaret 26:52 Right. Smokey 26:54 So one is how to prevent it from becoming chronic, and one is how to deal with chronic and they're not the same, they're quite, quite different. So you know, if you already have a chronic traumatic response of some sort, post traumatic stress syndrome, or any of the other related phenomena, you will approach that quite differently than building resilience, which doesn't protect you from having trauma, a traumatic experience. It just allows you to frame it, understand it, maybe if you're lucky, thrive and grow from it. But at worst, get you back on track in not having any chronic problems. Margaret 27:48 Okay, so it seems like there's three things, there's the holistic, building a stronger base of having a community, being more resilient in general. And then there's the like direct first aid to crisis and trauma, and then there's the long term care for the impacts of trauma. Okay, so if so, we've talked a bit about the holistic part of it, you want to talk about the the crisis, the thing to do in the immediate sense as it's happening or whatever? Smokey 28:15 For yourself or for somebody else? Margaret 28:18 Let's start with self. Smokey 28:20 So, self is go out and connect to your social network as much as you can, which is the opposite of what your mind and body is telling you. And that's why I think so much of the quote unquote, "self-care" movement is so wrong. You kind of retreat from your social network, things are too intense, I'm going to retreat from your social network. The research suggests that's the opposite of what you should be doing, you should connect. Now, if you find yourself in an unenviable situation where you don't have a social network, then you need to connect to professionals, because they, they can kind of fill in for that social Network. Therapists, social workers, peer groups, support groups, things like that they can kind of fill in for that. The problem is you don't have that sense of belonging. Well, with support groups, you might. You see this often in AA groups or other support groups. You don't really get that in therapy or or group therapy so much. But that is the first thing and so connect to your group. Obviously on the other side, if you're trying to help your community, your group, you need to actively engage that person who has been traumatized. Margaret 29:33 Yeah, okay. Smokey 29:35 And it's going to be hard. And you need to keep engaging them and engaging them in what? Not distractions: Let's go to a movie, get some ice cream, let's have a good time. And not going into the details of the traumatic experience so much as reconnecting them to the belonging, our friendship, if that. Our political movement, if that. Our religious movement, if that. Whatever that...whatever brought you two together. And that could be you being the community in this person, or could be you as Margaret in this person connecting on that, doubling down on that, and often I see people do things like, "Okay, let's do some self care, or let's, let's do the opposite of whatever the traumatic experience was," if it came from, say oppression, either vicarious or direct through political involvement let's, let's really connect on a non-political kind of way. Margaret 31:19 Ah I see! Smokey 31:21 And I'm saying, "No, you should double down on the politics," reminding them of right what you're doing. Not the trauma necessarily not like, "Oh, remember when you got beaten up, or your, your significant other got arrested or got killed by the police," but it's connecting to meaning, and bringing the community together. Showing the resiliency of the community will vicariously and contagiously affect the individual. And again, doesn't have to be political could be anything. Margaret 32:01 Yeah. Is that? How does that that feels a little bit like the sort of 'get right back on the horse kind of thing.' But then like, in terms of like, socially, rather than, because we 'get back on the horse,' might mean might imply, "Oh, you got beat up at a riot. So go out to the next riot." And that's what you're saying instead is so "Involve you in the fundraising drive for the people who are dealing with this including you," or like... Smokey 32:28 And allowing an expectation that the individual who's been traumatized, might be having a crisis of meaning. And allowing that conversation, to flow and helping that person reconnect to what they found meaningful to start with. So getting right back on the horse again, it's reminding them why they love horses. Margaret 33:02 Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, I have another question about the the crisis first aid thing, because there's something that, you know, something that you talked to me about a long time ago, when I was working on a lot of like reframing. I was working on coping with trauma. And so maybe this actually relates instead to long term care for trauma. And I, I thought of this as a crisis first aid kind of thing, is I'll use a like, low key example. When I was building my cabin, I'm slightly afraid of heights, not terribly, but slightly. And so I'm on a ladder in the middle of nowhere with no one around and I'm like climbing up the ladder, and I'm nailing in boards. And I found myself saying, "Oh, well, I only have three more boards. And then I'm done. I can get off the ladder. "And then I was like, "No, what I need to do is say, it's actually fine, I am fine. And I can do this," rather than like counting down until I can get off the ladder. And so this is like a way that I've been working on trying to build resiliency, you can apply this to lots of things like if I'm on an airplane, and I'm afraid of flying or something I can, instead of being like, "Five more hours and then we're there. Four more hours and then we're there," instead of being like, "It's actually totally chill that I'm on an airplane. This is fine." And basically like telling myself that to reframe that. Is this....Am I off base with this? Is this tie into this, there's just a different framework? Smokey 34:27 That is what the individual should be trying to do is connect the three different things, keeping it simple. One, is to the community which gives them nourishment. On a plane or on your roof, that's not going to happen. Margaret 34:44 Yeah. Smokey 34:45 Though, actually, to be honest. If you're nervous and you have...go back to your roof example, which I think is a pretty good one. Let's say that you had more than three boards. Let's say it was gonna take you a couple hours to do that. But it's something you're nervous about, connecting to somebody in your social network, whether you, you have your earphones on, and you're just talking to them before or during...after doesn't help. That does one way. Or the other is connecting to what you were doing, which is connecting to kind of reframing or your own internal resilience. I've done something similar like this before. This is not something that is going to need to throw me, it is what's called pocketing the anxiety. Margaret 35:45 Okay. Smokey 35:45 Where you're other-izing it, being like, it's coming from you too, right? being like, "Hey, you could fall. This plane could go down," right? That that's still you, you're generating that. You're not hearing that over to, and you're saying, "Okay, but I'm going to try, you know, give primacy to this other voice in my head. That is saying, "You've got this, it's all right, you've done things like this before."" So that's the second thing. And that's what you were doing. So you could connect to your community, you could connect to kind of a reserve of resiliency. And to do that is allow that one to be pocketed. But be like, "Hey, I want to hear from what this core thing has to say. I want to hear from what the positive person on the front row has to say." You're not arguing with that one. You're just listening. You're changing your, your, what you're attuned to. And then the third one is, if you can, you connect to the meaning. What is the meaning of building the house for you? Where are you going on your flight? And why is it important? Margaret 37:03 Yeah. Okay, Smokey 37:05 And that anxiety and the fact that you're doing it, you want to give again, the primacy to the importance, that "Yeah, I'm really nervous, I'm really freaked out about this, but this thing is so important, or so good for me, or so healthy for me to do this. This must mean it's going to be really important. And I'm connecting to why it's important and focusing on that. So those are the three things that the individual can do. The helping person or community is engagement. The second one is the same, reconnecting to the meaning. Why did you love horses in the first place? Okay, don't have to get back on the horse. But let's not forget horses are awesome. Margaret 37:58 Yeah. Smokey 37:58 And Horseback riding is awesome. Margaret 38:01 Yeah. Smokey 38:01 And you were really good at it before you got thrown. But you know, you don't have to do it now, but let's, let's just let's just share our love of horses for a moment and see how that makes you feel. And then the third one is that kind of drawing upon, instead of drawing upon the individual resilience, which you were doing, like, "Hey, I got this," or the plane, you know, you were, you're hearing from other people, you're drawing upon their individual resilience. "Smokey, tell me about the time you did this thing that was hard." And I tell ya, you're like, "Well, Smokey can fucking do that I can do it. You don't even think...it doesn't even work necessarily consciously. Margaret 38:50 Right. Smokey 38:51 So you could see that what you're doing individually, the helper or the community is doing complementary. Margaret 38:59 Yeah. Smokey 39:00 And now you can see why a lot of self care narrative, a lot of taking a break a lot of burnout narrative, all these things, at best aren't going to help you and at worst, in my opinion, are kind of counterproductive. Margaret 39:17 Well, and that's the, to go to the, you know, working on my roof thing I think about...because I've had some success with this. I've had some success where I....there's certain fears that I have, like, suppressed or something like I've stopped being as afraid of...the fear is no longer a deciding factor in my decision making, because of this kind of reframing this kind of like, yeah, pocketing like...And it's probably always useful to have the like, I don't want to reframe so completely that I just walk around on a roof all the time, without paying attention to what I'm doing, right?Because people do that and then they fall and the reason that there's a reason that roofing is one of the most dangerous jobs in America. So a, I don't know I yeah, I, I appreciate that, that you can do that. And then if it's a thing you're going to keep doing anyway, it becomes easier if you start handling it like, carefully, you know? Smokey 40:17 Well, you don't want to give it too much. So why do we? Why is it natural for us to take anxiety or fear and focus on it? It's somewhat evolutionary, right? It's a threat, right? It's supposed to draw your attention, right? It's supposed to draw your attention. And if you're not careful, it will draw your attention away from other things that are quieter that like that resiliency in the front row you need to call on, because they're not as flashy, right? So I don't think you have to worry about threat....You're right. You don't want to get to the point where you and that's why I say 'pocket it,' as opposed to 'deny it, suppress it, argue with it. demolish it.' I think it's good to have that little, "Beep, beep, beep there's a threat," and then being like, "Okay, but I want to continue to do this. Let's hear from resiliency in the front row. What? What do you have to tell me too?" You have to not...what happens is we go into the weeds of the threat. Oh, so what? "Oh, I fall off and I compound fracture, and I'm way out here in the woods, and no one's going to get me. My phone isn't charged." That's not what the original beep was. Original beep like, "You're high up on a ladder, seems unstable. This seems sketchy," right? Okay. Got that. And then resilience is, "Yeah, you've done lots of sketchy stuff. You've written in the back of a pickup truck. That's sketchy, so seatbelt there, nothing, you know, let me remind you that that you can overcome." And, but by going into the anxiety, going into the fear, you're forcing yourself to justify the thing. And then it becomes more and more elaborate, and it gets crazier and crazier very quickly. You know, all of sudden, you're bleeding out and you're cutting your leg off with a pen knife. It's like, "Wow, how did all this happen?" Margaret 42:38 Yeah, well, and that's actually something that comes up a lot in terms of people interacting with the show and about like preparedness in general. Because in my mind, the point of paying attention to how to deal with forest fire while I live in the woods, is not to then spend all of my time fantasizing and worrying about forest fire. But instead, to compare it to this ladder, if I get this "Beep, beep, the ladder is unstable." I climb down, I stabilize the ladder as best as I can. And then I climb back up and I do the thing. And then when I think about like, with fire, I'm like, "Okay, I have done the work to minimize the risk of fire. And so now I can stop thinking about it." Like, I can listen to the little beep, beep noise and do the thing. And now I can ignore the beep beep because just like literally, when you're backing up a truck and it goes beep, beep, you're like, yeah, no, I know, I'm backing up. Thanks. You know, like, Smokey 43:35 Yeah, it's good to know, it's good to know, you're not going forward. Margaret 43:39 Yeah, no. No, okay. That's interesting. And then the other thing that's really interesting about this, the thing that you're presenting, is it means that in some ways, work that we present as very individual in our society, even in radical society, is actually community based on this idea, like so conquering phobias is something that we help one another do, it seems like, Smokey 44:02 Absolutely. I mean, the best stuff on all this stuff is that people reverse engineering it to make people do dangerous, bad things. The military. Margaret 44:18 Yeah, they're probably pretty good at getting people to conquer phobias. Yep. Smokey 44:21 They have a great sense of belonging. They have a great sense of pulling in internal resilient, group resilient, connecting to meaning even when it's absolutely meaningless what you're doing. It's all the dark side of what we're talking about, but it's quite effective and it literally wins wars. Margaret 44:47 Yeah, that makes sense. Because you have this whole... Smokey 44:50 Literally it changes history. And so, the good news is, we can kind of reclaim that for what I think it was originally purposed to do, which is to protect us from the traumas that we had to go through in our evolutionary existence. So we couldn't afford to have a whole bunch of us chronically disabled. Meaning unable to function, you know, they've just taken it and, and bent it a little bit, and learned very deeply about it, how to how to use it for the things that really cause, you know, physical death and injury. And, and, you know, obviously, they're not perfect, you have a lot of trauma, but not, not as much as you would expect for what they do. And every year they get better and better. Margaret 45:51 Hooray. Smokey 45:53 We have to get on top of our game. Margaret 45:56 Yeah. Smokey 45:57 And get people not to do what they do. I'm not suggesting reading...well maybe reading military, but not...you can't use those tools to make people truly free and resilient. Margaret 46:17 Yeah. Smokey 46:18 In the healthy kind of way. Yeah. Margaret 46:22 Okay, so in our three things, there's the holistic, prepared resiliency thing, then there's the immediate, the bad thing is happening first aid. Should we talk about what to do when the thing has, when you have the like, the injury, the mental injury of the trauma? Smokey 46:42 Like with most injuries, it's rehab, right? Margaret 46:45 Yeah. No, no, you just keep doing the thing, and then hope it fixes itself. [laughs] Smokey 46:53 My approach to most medical oddities that happen as I get older, it's like, "It'll fix itself, this tooth will grow back, right? The pain will go away, right?" Yeah, just like physical rehab, it does require two important aspects for all physical, what we think of when someone says I have to go to rehab, physical rehab, not not alcohol rehab, or psych rehab, is that there's two things that are happening. One, is a understanding, a deep understanding of the injury, often not by the person, but by the physical therapist. Right? That if they know, okay, this is torn meniscus, or this is this and I, okay, so I understand the anatomy, I understand the surgery that happened. Okay. And then the second is, short term, not lifelong therapy, not lifelong this or that. Short term techniques to usually strengthen muscles and other joints and things around the injury. Okay. And that's what, what I would call good recovery after you already have the injury. It's not after you've had the traumatic experience, because traumatic experience doesn't necessarily cause a chronic injury, and we're trying to reduce the number of chronic injuries, but chronic injuries are going to happen. chronic injuries already exist today. A lot of the people we know are walking around with chronic injuries that are impacting their ability to do what they want to do and what in my opinion, we need them to do, because there's so much change that needs to happen. We need everybody as much as possible to be working at their ability. So wherever we can fix injury, we should. So so one is where do I get an understanding of how this injury impacts my life? And I think different cognitive psychology, I think CBT, DBT, these things are very, very good in general. Margaret 49:22 I know what those are, but can you explain. Smokey 49:22 Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. These all come out of cognitive psychology from the 50s. Our techniques, but most therapists use versions of this anyway. So just going to therapy, what it is doing initially, is trying to, like the physical therapist, tell you, "This is the injury you have. This is why it's causing you to limp, or why you have weakness in your arm and wrist. And what we're going to do is we're going to give you some techniques to build up, usually the muscles, or whatever else needs to be built up around it so that you will be able to get more use out of your hand." And that is what we need to do with people that have this chronic injury. So, one, is you need to find out how the injury is impacting. So, I'm drinking more, I'm getting angry more, or I'm having trouble making relationships, or I'm having, and there's a series of, you know, 50 year old techniques to really kind of get down and see, okay, this injury is causing these things, that's how it's impacting me, and I don't want to drink more, or I want to be able to sleep better, or I want to be able to focus, or I want to be able to have meaningful relationship with my partner or my children or whatever, whatever that is, right? And then there are techniques, and they're developing new techniques, all the time, there's like EMDR, which is an eye thing that I don't fully understand. There DBT, dialectical behavioral therapy, has a lot of techniques that you kind of practice in groups. As you know, we have mutual aid cell therapy, MAST, which is also a group where you're sharing techniques to build up these different things and resilience. So, community, and meaning, and all those...reframing all those kinds of things. So, but they shouldn't, despite the length of the injury, how long you've been injured, how long you've been limping, and how much it's affected other parts of your psychic body in a way. These are things that still should be able to be remediated relatively quickly. Smokey 49:31 That's exciting. Yeah. Smokey 50:10 But this is not a lifelong thing. Now, that doesn't mean, if you're traumatized as a child for example, it's sort of like if you've completely shattered your wrist bone, and they've put in pins and things like that, that wrist, may never have the flexibility, it did, the actual wrist bone, you know, the bones in the wrist. But by building muscles, and other things around it, you could then theoretically have full flexibility that you had before, right? But it's not the actual wrist bone, but that that injury is still there. You've built up...Sometimes it's called strength-based approach or model where you're building up other strengths, you have to relieve the impact that that injury, so like, a common thing with with trauma is trust. My trust is very damaged. My ability to trust others, or trust certain environments, or maybe trust myself, right, is completely damaged. So if, if my...and that may never fully heal, that's like my shattered wrist bone. So then, by building up, let's say, I don't trust myself, I did something, really fucked up myself, you know, psychologically, traumatically, but by building up trust in others, and then in the environment, or other things, that can mediate that damage or vice versa. Margaret 53:53 You mean vice versa, like if you? Smokey 53:59 Like, if my problem is a trust of others, or trust with strangers, or trust with friends, you know, I've been betrayed in a really traumatic way by my mother, or my father or uncle or something like that then, you know, building up my friendships to a really strong degree will reduce and eventually eliminate, hopefully erase the impact of that injury on the rest of my life. I'm not doomed to have dysfunctional relationships, lack of sleep, alcoholism or whatever are the symptoms of that traumatic event, that chronic traumatic event. Margaret 54:54 Okay, so my next question is, and it's sort of a leading question, you mentioned MAST earlier and I kind of want to ask, like, do we need specialists for all of this? Do we have people who both generalize and specialize in this kind of thing? Are there ways that, you know, we as a community can, like, get better at most of this stuff while then some of it like, you know, obviously people specialize in and this remains useful? Like... Smokey 55:22 You need. I wouldn't say...You need, you do need specialists, not for their knowledge, per se so much as they're there for people that the injury has gone on so long that the resiliency, all those other things, they don't have a social network, they haven't had time, because the damage happened so early to build up those reserves, that that person in the front row, the front row, the seats are empty. That is, it's really great we live...Now, in other cultures, the specialists were probably shamans, religious people, mentors, things like that, that said, "Okay, my role is to," all therapy is self therapy. That was Carl Rogers, he was quite correct about that. The specialist you're talking about are the kind of stand in for people who don't have people to do that. I would argue all real therapy is probably community therapy. It's relational. So if you have friends, if you have community, if you have a place, or places you find belonging, then theoretically, no, I don't think you need....I think those groups, and I think most specialists would agree to actually, those groups, if they're doing this can actually do a much better job for that individual. They know that individual and there's a natural affinity. And there there are other non specifically therapeutic benefits for engaging in re engaging in these things that have nothing to do with the injury that are just healthy, and good to you. So sort of like taking Ensure, Ensure will keep you alive when you're you've had some surgery, you've had some really bad injury, or if you need saline solution, right? But we're not suggesting people walk around with saline bags. There are better ways to get that, more natural ways to get that. I'm not talking alternative, psychiatric or, you know, take herbs instead of psychiatric medication. But there are better ways to do that. And I think, but I'm glad we have saline. Margaret 58:08 Yeah, Smokey 58:08 I think it saves a lot of people's lives. But, we would never give up the other ways to get nutrients because of other benefits to it. You know, sharing a meal with people is also a really good thing. Margaret 58:21 And then even like from a, you know, the advantages of community, etc. I'm guessing it's not something that's like magically imbued in community. It's like can be something that communities need to actually learn these skills and develop like, I mean, there's a reason that well, you know, I guess I'm reasonably open about this. I used to have like fairly paralyzing panic attacks, and then it started generalizing. And then, you know, a very good cognitive behavioral therapist gave me the tools with which to start addressing that. And that wasn't something I was getting from....I didn't get it from my community in the end, but I got it from a specific person in the community, rather than like, everyone already knows this or something. Smokey 59:03 Well, I think what we're doing right here is, is....I mean, people don't know. So they read....People were trying to help you from your community. Undoubtedly, with the right. intentions, and the right motives, but without the information on what actually works. Margaret 59:27 Yep. Smokey 59:28 And that's all that was happening there. Margaret 59:30 Yeah, totally. Smokey 59:31 So, it's really, you know, as cliche as it sound. It's really about just giving people some basic tools that we already had at one time. Margaret 59:44 Yeah. Smokey 59:45 Forgot, became specialized. So you know, I'm throwing around CBT, DBT, EMDR. None of that people can keep in their head. They will....The audience listening today are not going to remember all those things. And nor do they have to. But they have to know that, you know, reconnecting to the horse, but not telling people to get back on the horse, that kind of tough love kind of thing isn't going to work, but neither is the self care, take a bubble bath... Margaret 1:00:19 Never see a horse again, run from a horse. Smokey 1:00:21 Never see a horse, again, we're not even going to talk about horses, let's go do something else, isn't going to work either. And I think once we...you know, it's not brain science...Though it is. [laughs] It is pretty, you know, these are, and you look at how religions do this, you know, you look at how the military does this, you look at how like, fascists do this, you know, all sorts of groups, communities can do this fairly effectively. And it doesn't cost money. It's not expensive. You don't have to be highly educated or read all the science to be able to do that. And people naturally try, but I think a lot of the self help kind of gets in the way. And some people think they know. "Okay, well, this is what needs to happen, because I saw on Oprah." That kind of thing. " Margaret 1:01:26 Yeah, Well, I mean, actually, that's one of the main takeaways that's coming from me is I've been, I've been thinking a lot about my own mental health first aid on a fairly individual basis, right? You know, even though it was community, that helped me find the means by which to pull myself out of a very bad mental space in that I was in for a lot of years. But I still, in the end was kind of viewing it as, like, "Ah, someone else gave me the tools. And now it's on me." It's like this individual responsibility to take care of myself. And, and so that's like, one of the things that I'm taking as a takeaway from this is learning to be inter-reliant. Smokey 1:02:06 There isn't enough research on it, again, because of our individualistic nature, and probably because of variables. But there's certainly tons of anecdotal evidence, and having done this for a long time talking to people and how the place I work is particularly set up, helping others is a really great way to help yourself. Margaret 1:02:30 Yeah. Smokey 1:02:31 it really works. It's very, I mean, obviously, in the Greeks, you know, you have the 'wounded healer,' kind of concept. Many indigenous traditions have said this much better than the Western. And I believe they have...and they needed to, but they had a much better kind of understanding of these things that we're we're talking about. You know, it. So, where people can...and I've heard this podcast, your podcast too, talking about this ability to be, you know, have self efficacy. But it's more than self efficacy. It's really helping others. Margaret 1:03:22 Yeah. Smokey 1:03:23 And that, that is really powerful. And there's not enough research on that. And I think that's why support groups, I think that's why, you know, AA, despite all its problems, has spread all over the world and has been around for, you know, 75 years, and is not going to go away anytime soon. Despite some obvious problems, is there's that there's that... they hit upon that they they re discovered something that we always kind of knew. Margaret 1:03:59 Yeah. Okay, well, we're coming out of time. We're running out of time. Are there any last thoughts, things that I should have asked you? I mean, there's a ton we can talk about this, and I'll probably try and have you on to talk about more specifics in the near future. But, is there anything anything I'm missing? Smokey 1:04:15 No, I think I think just re emphasizing the end piece that you know, for people that have resources, communities, meaning, social network, you know, that is worth investing your time and your energy into because that's going to build your...if you want to get psychologically strong, that is the easiest and the best investment, Put down the self help book. Call your friend. You know, don't search Google for the symptoms of this, that, or the other thing. Connect to what's important to you. And then lastly, try to help others or help the world in some way. And those are going to be profound and effective ways to build long lasting resilience as an individual. As a community, we should design our communities around that. Margaret 1:05:35 Yeah. All right. Well, that seems like a good thing to end on. Do you have anything that you want to plug like, I don't know books about mutual aid self therapy or anything like that? Smokey 1:05:46 I want to plug community. That's all I want to plug. Margaret 1:05:50 Cool. All right. Well, it's nice talking to you, and I'll talk to you soon. Smokey 1:05:54 Yep. Margaret 1:06:00 Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please tell people about it. Actually, I mean, honestly, if you enjoyed this episode, in particular, like think about it, and think about reaching out to people, and who needs to be reached out to and who you need to reach out to, and how to build stronger communities. But if you want to support this podcast, you can tell people about it. And you can tell the internet about it. And you can tell the algorithms about it. But, you can also tell people about it in person. And you can also support it by supporting the, by supporting Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness, which is the people who produce this podcast. It's an anarchist publishing collective that I'm part of, and you can support it on Patreon at patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. And if you support at pretty much any level, you get access to some stuff, and if you support a $10 you'll get a zine in the mail. And if you support at $20, you'll get your name read at the end of episodes. Like for example, Hoss the dog, and Micahiah, and Chris, and Sam, and Kirk, Eleanor, Jennifer, Staro, Cat J, Chelsea, Dana, David, Nicole, Mikki, Paige, SJ, Shawn, Hunter, Theo, Boise Mutual Aid, Milica, and paparouna. And that's all, and we will talk to you soon, and I don't know, I hope you all are doing as well as you can. This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, we have a re-air of the first episode of Live Like the World is Dying, an interview with Kitty Stryker about Anarchist Prepping. Kitty Stryker can be found on twitter at @kittystryker and at http://kittystryker.com/ Margaret Killjoy can be found on twitter at @magpiekilljoy and at http://www.birdsbeforethestorm.net/ Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Transcript The following transcript was provided by a comrade who wants to help us make this show more accessible: S01E01 Kitty Stryker on Anarchist Prepping Live Like The World Is Dying #0:00:00.0# (Introductory music) #0:00:15.1# Margaret Killjoy: Hello and welcome to Live Like The World Is Dying; a podcast that explores life when it feels like the end times. I say "when it feels like the end times", and I'm gonna get into this more throughout various episodes of the podcast, because of course, the world is always ending. It's always changing the status quo. Always shakes and changes, collapses, rebuilds, all of these things. So sometimes people roll their eyes when you talk about the world ending. And sometimes that makes sense, the world has ended in a lot of different ways. But... It sure feels like the world is ending right now to me and to... Maybe to you and maybe it will, maybe it won't. Obviously what it means for the world to end is a subjective thing. But it's a... It's a stress factor to say the least, on a lot of people's lives right now. Thinking about climate change and thinking about the... The rise of global fascism. So this is a podcast that's gonna explore... Well, how we can live while we feel like the world is dying. For myself and for this podcast I've found that I focus on four different priorities. I focus on living like the world is going to end and that I might not survive, living like the world is going to end and I can try to survive, living like we can prevent the end of the world, and of course, living like maybe the world isn't ending after all. So basically hedonism, prepping, revolution, and not burning all your bridges because... Who knows, the status quo might linger on after all. With this podcast I'm probably going to focus on the middle two of these priorities. I'm gonna focus on prepping and revolution. And I'm going to do that because... Well, I've always sort of wanted there to be more information and more... More going on about anarchist and leftist prepping. Because most of the prepping world is of course steeped in... Not just like right-wing politics, but also right-wing values and individualistic values and of course as an anarchist I believe in the balance between the individual and the community and because of that I don't believe in individualistic survival. I don't believe that the bunker mentality, which we're going to talk a lot of shit on in this podcast over the next couple episodes, is appropriate to most... To most threat models. So I'll be your host, but for the most part I'm going to interview people who know a lot more about a lot of this stuff than me. As for me, I am a prepper I suppose on some level. I keep a small stockpile food. Dried food in 5 gallon buckets in case there's an interruption in... Well, food supplies. I make sure I know where water filtration is. I also keep a to-go bag and... At my house. And I keep another one in my car that's much smaller. Neither of these are a particularly elaborate. They're... They're fairly simple things I put together. And that's... That's more for my own mental welfare than it is like any immediate expectation of crisis. And I also... I live off grid. Which is not something that I'm gonna specifically advocate that anyone else do. I actually live off grid because it just sort of meets my needs here and now in terms of how I like to live. I live about half an hour away from a small city in a cabin I built myself in the woods because I like doing that. I like living that way. I'm an anarchist and that's going to certainly bleed over into the content of this show. I believe in a world without course of hierarchies like the state or capitalism or white supremacy or heteronormativity or... Or any of the intersecting oppressions and hierarchies that rule the world that shouldn't. And so of course, a lot of my... I tell you this because I want you to know my biases because I want you to come to your own conclusions. I have a bias against state and federal aid. I tend to find it to be wildly inefficient. I'm far more interested in creating a society based on mutual aid. And so... And I find agency to be wildly important. I find it very important for us to encourage each other to have agency and so I'm interested in disaster relief or crisis preparation or whatever, that maximizes individual agency, that maximize community agency and... Yeah, that's what's interesting to me so that's what I'm going to be focusing on more. This first episode, our guest is Kitty Stryker who I can let introduce herself. Thanks so much for listening. #0:05:01.9# (Musical transition) #0:05:06.5# Margaret: So today our guest is Kitty Stryker. Well actually, do you want to introduce yourself with your name and pronouns and kind of any political or organizational affiliation you feel like shouting out. #0:05:21.4# Kitty Stryker: Sure. I'm Kitty Stryker, I use she/her pronouns. I'm a... I identify myself as a leftist doomsday prepper. But I'm more of a like... Emergency prepper, street medic. I work with Struggle Of Circus, which is a of bunches of leftists and other sort of radical political groups and a bunch of juggalos coming together to help out at protests and usually do medic related stuff but also be kind of a meat wall around marginalized communities. I identify as an anarchist and... Yeah, I guess I just found it really interesting that when I was looking for communities of leftist to talk to about prepping, there wasn't anything there. #0:06:15.5# Margaret: Yeah that was... I think we ended up kind of finding each other through a similar... I don't actually remember how we first ended up talking about it. Maybe you do. But we've been, for anyone who's listening, Kitty and I have been talking vaguely about how we needed to do something about this... This lack of... #0:06:34.2# Kitty: Lack of information, yeah. #0:06:35.9# Margaret: Yeah. Because so much of the information that's out there about prepping is not really applicable, well, to anyone realistically. But certainly not necessarily applicable to people whose ideology isn't "fuck you, I've got mine", you know? So... #0:06:53.5# Kitty: Right and I think... And it could be actively hostile in forums and stuff. Like places that you wanna go to ask for information and ask for advice become really hostile when people are talking about how much they want to kill antifa or of like... "I can't wait til the race war". It's not really a very comfortable place to ask questions about fortifications. #0:07:19.5# Margaret: Yeah. That makes sense. So why don't we start by kind of talking about the general conception of preparedness and kind of what is leftist or anarchist prepping or preparedness. As... At least as you can conceive it. #0:07:37.7# Kitty: Sure, well, so for me I grew up with parents who are sort of like... Suburban homesteader types, with a mixture of prepping. But are also hoarders so while they have everything you would need in an apocalypse you also wouldn't necessarily be able to find it. So I kinda grew up with the hoarding tendency that they think comes with a lot of prepping. You wanna have lots of things that seemed very important. But also this desire to try to make it organized and make it easily accessible. I realized fairly quickly that while I'm more of a stay-in-place kind of prepper and sort of emergency preparedness person, I also will potentially need to be able to put what I need a backpack and carry it with me. At least for a mile or two depending on the emergency and if I have so much stuff that I can't practically do that without a car, it's not really going to be that useful. I live in earthquake country so I just have to anticipate the roads are going to be kind of a mess. So that was sort of where I came from, was this not very political, camping and also very pagan, getting in touch with earth kind of thing. Like my parents beehives that drives all of their neighbors off the wall. They hate it. #0:09:12.7# Margaret: That's interesting. I've only a couple times been around this, yeah, suburban homesteading idea where you have access to a little bit of land. Not necessarily so much privacy, not so much... Place where you can keep your bees. #0:09:24.5# Kitty: Nope, no privacy. Everyone in my neighborhood is like, "That's the witch house. You can tell because there's thirteen sacred trees in the front lawn. And her dad goes outside and scythes the lawn." #0:09:38.1# Margaret: Wow. #0:09:39.7# Kitty: I don't think he's actually even done that in years so I think it's just an overgrown tangle at this point. #0:09:45.9# Margaret: Well that's even more fun. #0:09:46.7# Kitty: But we have like... We have a pond in there. There's a little herb garden, a veggie garden. We have a crow feeder. It's... It's elaborate. #0:09:56.8# Margaret: I'm imagining this on like a quarter acre, half acre. Is that..? #0:10:00.5# Kitty: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. With manicured lawns right next to us on either side. #0:10:08.5# Margaret: Well, that's a... #0:10:09.1# Kitty: Really... That's where I was raised. I think that explains a lot. #0:10:13.7# Margaret: Okay. It's an interesting metaphor for being the one person who's... You know, either prepping or being a hoarder. #0:10:22.4# Kitty: I've been the one person for a while. Yeah. But I think that that's in such staunch contrast to doomsday preppers which is what most people think of when they think of prepping. They think of like, "Oh, that's those rednecks in the middle of the really rural areas with their bunker and their nine million guns and their giant water containers." And they're, you know, being completely convinced that there's going to a nuclear war or there's going to be... I don't know. What are some of the other disasters that they're always prepared for? Well, I mean like, definitely race wars. Definitely one of the things. #0:11:09.1# Margaret: Yeah, I mean and that's kind of the... I feel like that's the tell between whether you're talking to a racist prepper or a... Well, obviously if someone's talking about a race war they're clearly racist. But... You know, there's a tell of whether or not they're obsessed with like the... The boogaloo or if they're obsessed with... You know, the possibility of invasion or... System collapse in general. #0:11:32.3# Kitty: Right, right. And like what system collapse looks like. Like what are they actually afraid of, I think is very telling. A lot of times you'll see people say, "Oh, I'm afraid that people are going to come and murder my family for my resources because my resources are so awesome that everyone for miles around is going want to come and murder me." Which, first of all, if that was true I would not be saying it on the internet. That just seems like a bad idea. That's... My boyfriend and I watch doomsday preppers and talk about how we would raid their bunkers because they show us everything. And that just seems very shortsighted, if that is indeed what you are worried about. #0:12:22.2# Margaret: Right, as compared to just kind of showing off and being excited about... Like kind of nerding out about gear... #0:12:27.6# Kitty: I think it's like... Yeah, it's like nerding out and they think it's more of a threat than it is. I don't know. I think... I think it speaks to a desire for conflict that I don't personally have. I don't want to have to use my apartment complex to snipe people. I just don't want to do that. I just wanna be able to grow a garden using a discarded... Shoe organizer from the broken down Ross down the street. That's my type of prepping, rather than preparing for endless violence. #0:13:10.4# Margaret: Yeah, there's kind of a... I feel like one of the main myths or concepts that I'm trying to get across with this podcast... Not a myth I'm trying to get across this, prove that something is a myth, is the bunker mentality is the "I've got mine, fuck you" mentality, that is so common in prepping circles and it's... It's really off-putting because... I mean, even... Even from a pure self-interest point of view it just seems so dumb. So you hole up with your five closest friends in the middle of the woods during the apocalypse, and that's like all fine and good until your appendix bursts and you forget that you're not a surgeon and that your brother isn't a surgeon, you know? And... #0:13:56.0# Kitty: Well you just need more useful friends. #0:13:57.9# Margaret: Well, sure but... #0:13:58.7# Kitty: That's what I did. #0:13:59.2# Margaret: But what if you are the surgeon, right? And then your appendix bursts. #0:14:02.4# Kitty: Well, yeah. Then... Yeah. Then... Then... Well, then you just die. I mean, that's the thing. I think that they... They're so afraid of violence coming from other people that they don't... A, think of the violence that could happen amongst themselves which is kind of inevitable if you're locked in a bunker together. And there's... Especially if there's power dynamics in place and stress, then I feel like there's gonna be some abusive dynamics that come out of that. So if you're not prepared for that, it doesn't really matter how good your resources are. And there's... So that's just even within your unit, and then never mind if you're then expanding out to like... Do you know how to do literally everything in the world? Because you're probably going to help. It's the same as the idea about currency. Everyone's so keen on like... Oh yeah, make sure that you have currency. Make sure you silver buried in your yard. Like... What are you going to do with that, really? Like... I mean... It's cool, I guess. But unless you're going to use that as a brick... I don't understand. #0:15:12.3# Margaret: Well I guess it gets into... In some ways, I think the apocalypse... People who think too much about the apocalypse, whether on they're on the left or on the right, or just bored centrists or moderates or whatever, I think that people are thinking about and imagining clean slates and imagining about how they would like to act and what kind of societies they would like to create, what kind of dynamics they'd like to create. So it's really easy for someone who, say of a libertarian mindset, to be like "Well, of course gold is what matters because we're all going to trade resources. There's definitely going to be market economics after the apocalypse because we're going to institute market... Economics. And then maybe like... Those of us that are like, "Wow, the market's a dumb thing and isn't really particularly interesting to me at all." Like, yeah I have a really hard time imagining that I'm going to be doing much... Even bartering after the apocalypse. Like, I'm... I'm either like rolling with people and sharing shit or I'm keeping shit to myself but like... I'm not gonna be like, "Well, these three bullets are worth that tourniquet," or whatever, you know? At least that's my conception of it. That's when... When I like to imagine the end of the world, which is not actually something I like imagining anymore, but I'm imagining something that is closer to the ideological interest that I have. Which is maybe a fault of mine, maybe that's a blind spot of mine. #0:16:39.5# Kitty: Well, I don't think that's... I don't think it's necessarily a fault. I mean, like one thing that I think when... You know, I have a group friends that we talk about this stuff a lot amongst ourselves. Especially because we're within bicycling distance from each other, so we're sort of like, "Okay, if there is an emergency, we're pretty sure that we could get to each other." But we all have... Slightly different ideas of what we would like to see happen which means we also have a different... Like different ideals and different areas of expertise. And I think that that is actually super helpful. I don't know that I would want to be in a group that everybody thinks the same way, as long as you think cooperatively versus competitively. And for me that's what's important. I don't really care how we get to cooperative instead of competitive, but that's what I want. #0:17:33.5# Margaret: Yeah, that makes sense. So, look, I want to talk more about... Okay, one of the things I really like about prepping in general is that it can be very practical. It's not, it's... Obviously a lot of it is not practical at all. But like... But to take this conversation practically for a minute... Like, what you do... Not necessarily... Both in terms of things that you keep around, but also what are your plans? You talked about bicycling to meet up with your friends. What is... What kind of preparedness do you personally practice? #0:18:05.4# Kitty: So my boyfriend and I talk a lot about what our plans are. Pretty much every three months or so. And we're mostly... And ust to give some context, we're mostly prepping for an earthquake, for a big earthquake, because that's the most likely thing to happen here. I guess there's some possibilities that will end up having a bunch of neo-nazis coming and terrorizing us but I think they've gotten tired of Berkeley and have moved to Portland instead so... We're probably fine for now. So we talk a little bit about what are the risks that are current, what are the resources that are currently around? Maybe... We've been talking about creating a map, like actually getting a map and write, marking down important things that we might want to know where they are when you don't have Google Maps for example. So stuff like that is really important. Like the sort of... Preparing... For immediate needs and also for where you are going to be able to get resources. What area is around that could conceivably be turned into a garden if need be. Which we're actually lucky, we have a park really close by. And we also make a point to know our neighbors. Both our housed and houseless neighbors. So having good relationships with them is really helpful and like giving them ideas of how to be prepared so that we're not overwhelming ourselves trying to take care of them as well as ourselves. So you're trying to match up add the younger folks with older folks or able-bodied folks with people with disabilities so that way there's... It's easier for people to mobilize and so that we know who in our area is going to need help. So that's some of the community planning stuff that's not even focused on my group of hyper-focused friends but just making my environment less chaotic. And so that's sort of like... And again, like a garden, it takes some pruning and some cultivating and a little bit of upkeep but I feel reasonably confident that my neighbors are going to be able to handle themselves. Which is my first big concern because then I can start worrying about things like, what do I personally actually need? One thing that is kind of difficult, I live in an apartment and we don't have a huge amount of space. So I can't have buckets and buckets of freeze-dried food. We do tend to have a lot of canned food, we do tend to have a lot of nuts and dried fruit and stuff like that around so that helps a little bit. It makes it easier for us to find stuff in rubble that we can eat. We also have a... A dresser that we put our prepper stuff in and it's sorted with medic supplies in the first two drawers because that's sort of my specialty... That's my area focus. And then we have sort of more general supplies, so that's where we have LifeStraws and we have bandanas and we have masks for filtering out smoke or disease. We have lots and lots of gloves, we have... Water filtering tablets, we have a bunch different kinds of fire starters. So we sort of put together a compendium of things that we felt would be useful. And then what's probably the least practical thing is my... In the main living room I have a hatchet, I have a walking stick, I have my camping stuff. So it's not all condensed in one place but I have... I do have a spare tent at my partner's house and I have a medic bag. A fully packed medic go-bag that I take to protests in the trunk of my car. So that way I can... I have one medic bag in the house, I have one in the car, and I usually have one at my partner's house. Sometimes I have one at my local bar too but that's the one that usually get used if I go to a protest 'cause that's near downtown. But just having pockets stuff... And then I have a storage unit downtown as well. So I figured it might be more difficult to get into my storage unit but at least it's underground and that would be not a bad place to have some stuff that I don't need immediately but might want down the line, yeah. So... But it's sort of a pack rat... Pack ratty, squirrel type prepping. Of burying little caches... #0:23:27.8# Margaret: I'm impressed because you're... Yeah, you're managing to successfully do in an urban environment what... Well... Something I associate more with the rural environments of... You know, one of the things that I was realizing... #0:23:41.1# Kitty: It's harder. It's harder, but it's only harder if you care about being the only person who can get to it. And I don't really care so much about that. I just wanna have access to it. I'm... Because, for me, I'm someone who... I saw a guy on a scooter get hit by car. I was so glad I had that medic kit on me so that I could actually help him out. And immediately help him out. I'm so glad I had that expertise. So... And actually that's one thing that I also have is a first aid book because, again, I don't know how to do everything. But if I have a book, I can probably figure out how to do most things safely. So... #0:24:26.7# Margaret: What's the book? #0:24:29.4# Kitty: It's an old field manual medic guide, I forget what era. But I prefer to try to go for stuff that's military because... Or serious environmental wilderness strategy guides because then they're not focused on you having access to a full hospital. It's not ideal conditions. Sometimes first aid advice is like, "Oh well just call an ambulance" and it's like well that's not really practical in the sort of situations I'm preparing for so I prefer to look at older stuff. And then take newer knowledge and pack that on top. But knowing how to do some of these things when you don't have electricity, a lot of modern medicine depends on electricity, depends on you having access to different kinds of medications and solutions that might not have. So I think it's kind of... I don't... Until I have to do it in practice I don't know how useful it actually will be. But I'm interested in learning how have people prevented disease... In wartime, in... A forest in the middle of nowhere versus what you you would get trained necessarily if you're getting CPR training for your work. #0:26:08.8# Margaret: Have you taken the wilderness first responder course or anything like that? #0:26:12.4# Kitty: I want to so badly. I'm hoping that I can save up for it or have somebody gift it to me. But that is on my list of, oh my god I would... That be so dreamy. But... I really... I just also am just also am obsessed with medical stuff. I guess that's... That's one thing I would really recommend for people curious about prepping. I would say while it is nice to be able to have information about a bunch of different areas, find the thing that you're really interested and nerd out on that. One of my friends is really, really into finding plants and urban foraging. So that's her area of expertise. It's like, oh, she can tell you every plant you can eat within two miles of your house. And that would be really useful, it's not necessarily something that my brain can hold onto... As easily as medicine stuff. My partner is really good with weapons and... Building shelters. It's not really my area so it's nice to have somebody who can teach me just enough but also has a lot more expertise. #0:27:29.4# Margaret: Yeah, that's something that I... I think about a lot in terms of even just the world I wanna live in. I'm really excited about the idea where we... Instead of having a generalism versus specialization kind of argument, it's another bullshit false dichotomy, probably we should all as much as we can generalize as broadly as we can and then pick the things that stand out to us to specialize in. Like, I don't need to know how to do surgery but I should probably know first... Literal first aid. Like first response... Like there have been a number times in my life where I've... I'm incredibly squeamish, I hate medical things, I hate thinking about it the way that like... Like someone showed me how to use a tourniquet and... You know, I disassociated in order to learn. Because the concept of thinking about like... Arterial bleeding doesn't work for me. But I know that I need to know how to do that so I learn pretty much by disassociating and then kind of when things happen I like disassociate again and then deal with it. #0:28:34.6# Kitty: Yeah, I mean there's some practicality to that. When I was doing medical work at protests I really underestimated how traumatized I was until months later... When I was like, "Wow, I just didn't have feelings for a while." It's a lot and I'm... I love... See, I'm not squeamish at all about that stuff but I'm impatient so like building structures is not my thing. It's like, I could learn how to do it but I don't even put up the tent when I go camping if I can avoid it. So... Knowing that I have a good solid group of people around me who are really excited to do that stuff allows us to do the thing we're excited about but also in case something happens to that person, we know how to do it we just don't like it. #0:29:26.1# Margaret: Yeah. Or at least have a... Can do a rougher version of it, you know? Can do a... I had a... I was just talking to a friend about all of this. I actually don't remember if it's... I'm recordings these interviews out of order from how they're going to play. So I was talking to a friend of mine who's a... A medical professional and he was talking about how in a crisis situation if you have two people, maybe what you want is a nurse and a world class generalist, you know? As like the two people that you need. #0:29:58.8# Kitty: Pretty much. I think having a medic... Like I think everyone should have basic medical training, just basic shit, because that way anybody can do an emergency... Like, okay, "I can put gauze on this and stop the bleeding." That's what I need from people. And every time I go to a protest, people are asking what they could do to help and I'm like, "Just do that. Just do that, only." And help people with sprained ankles and keep them hydrated. 'Cause if you can do all of that then I can focus on stitching someone's head together. That's what I need to be able to be focused on because I'm not the squeamish one. So... Yeah, I think that helps a lot. Also coming up with things for you to do, that gets ignored a lot on prepper forums. At least the ones I've been on. They talk a lot about like, you know, "Okay, you've gotta have all of this foraging skills and you gotta have shelter building and you gotta have all these supplies in order to make all of this stuff," but there are no downtime options. And you're gonna have downtime sometimes. Like you're gonna get sick eventually, if nothing else. So make sure you have stuff to keep your mind busy during those times. 'Cause watching "Alone" for example, I don't know if you've ever seen that one but they put these people by themselves in the middle of the... Was it Canadian wilderness I think for at least the first couple of seasons? And they have to do everything from scratch. They have some supplies on them and a good supply list. But they have to pick like... 1 of 10 items, or 10 different items out of a list of like... pre-approved 50 different things they can have. So have to do a lot of stuff by themselves. And almost every single time the thing that gets to them is just a lack of food and boredom. And if they can keep themselves busy, somehow, like making music or making art or building... Like adding decorations to their shelter, then the fact that they're hungry doesn't bother them so much. But if they don't have anything like that, they're not creative in any way, then the fact that they're hungry literally gnaws away at their brain. So I just think that's a really interesting aspect... Like thinking a lot about mental health in an emergency scenario because I think that gets ignored with a lot of right-wing prepping forums and stuff like that. #0:32:53.6# Margaret: Yeah. Yeah I wonder what... I feel like there's just the deck of card, is what's written about in all the things. #0:33:03.3# Kitty: Yeah, it's always recommended. Always have a deck of cards. #0:33:05.8# Margaret: Which is like... You can tell that they wrote that in the 50's or whatever, you know? #0:33:10.1# Kitty: Right, in that... Part of it's gonna be like, "Oh, like for gambling in order to entertain yourself if... Gambling with the no money that you have. I don't know. It's just... I would much prefer to have... I don't know, Codenames or something. Endless replayability. #0:33:31.2# Margaret: Yeah, I feel like there's a... #0:33:32.1# Kitty: I mean, but... #0:33:32.8# Margaret: Go ahead. #0:33:32.8# Kitty: Let's be honest, I'd be playing Dungeons & Dragons. In my tracker tent as an actual ranger. Playing Dungeons & Dragons. #0:33:45.2# Margaret: You wouldn't play... What's the opposite of it? The dragons play, they play... Humans and Houses? #0:33:51.3# Kitty: Oh, yeah, maybe that too. I don't know, mix them up. Mix them together. #0:33:56.3# Margaret: You'd have roleplaying about what would you do if apartments still existed or whatever? #0:34:00.4# Kitty: Yeah. #0:34:02.7# Margaret: I think that... #0:34:03.3# Kitty: I mean, I guess I don't... I'm not that scared of that. It would be uncomfortable and I'd probably hate it a lot. I'm a house cat. But, you know, I'm not that worried about it either. And I think part of it is because I just made being prepared, knowing where my go-bag is at all times just part of my day-to-day existence. So it's just muscle memory at this point. #0:34:32.8# Margaret: Yeah. Earlier in our pre-conversation, when we talked about what we might talk about, one of the things you brought up is the ableism that exists in a lot of prepping conversations and I was wondering if you wanted to talk more about that. #0:34:46.0# Kitty: Yeah, so I noticed that a lot of discussions on what your go-plan is involves being able to walk long distances. Presumably because they figure walking a long enough distance would get you to area of wilderness, that they feel would be more suitable. I... That is really impractical for a large number of people. People with small children are going to struggle with that. Elderly people are going to struggle with that. People with disabilities are going to struggle with that. Some people with disabilities aren't going to be able to do that. It won't even be just a struggle, it's just impossible. So I think the... We need more diverse resources and we need to talk seriously about how to make this accessible for people who aren't in their... Super hyper fit, in their 30's, ready to charge over a mountain. And in the bay area you could you could walk for eight hours and I don't know that you would find a bit of wilderness... So I don't think that's necessarily the most practical option for all people. #0:36:08.7# Margaret: it's funny to me that all this stuff about going to the wilderness because I live in... Not the wilderness but I very rurally. I live in a house that I built at the end of a... Beyond the end of a gravel road like every stupid stick of my fucking cabin I had to carry up a hill on my back. I actually started building it with a chronic injury and then managed to... Physical therapy my way... This isn't a... Statement about ableism, just the weird stupid shit of building this fucking cabin I live in. #0:36:40.6# Kitty: But looks really cool. #0:36:43.0# Margaret: But there's... Thanks, yeah, no I'm really proud of it and it's funny because actually it's a brilliant place to live during civilization. But if there were some kind of crisis, I would probably get my to-go bag or my car presumably but let's pretend like that's not an option for whatever reason, and I would walk to the city. Because the city is where people are and that is where we can keep each other safe. I think people have this conception of... That people are a danger and that's true, people are dangerous, right? But the wilderness is really fucking dangerous too. And... #0:37:23.7# Kitty: People really underestimate how dangerous the wilderness is. They underestimate how cold it is. The cold will kill you, the wet will kill you. #0:37:34.4# Margaret: Yeah and so getting to... I don't know for certain, it would really depend on the threat, but I would presumably go to a place of higher population so that we collectively can figure out what the fuck to do. And maybe the fact that I have access to certain resources by living on land can become useful to people. And that would be my hope. I could easily imagine a situation where you have, as part of your prepping, you would have... The rural... With rural living access to space. You don't necessarily have access to anything else but you often have access to space and... So you can store tractors and you can store strange devices... Like devices that have very odd and specialized purposes for building or something like that. But then again, the thing I'm slowly learning is that cities have all of those things too. It's just that not necessarily each individual is going to own them. Because not everyone lives on a farm. #0:38:36.4# Kitty: Right. The city owns it or the government owns it. But yeah, there's plenty of parking lots. #0:38:42.5# Margaret: Yeah, that's true. #0:38:45.8# Kitty: So... Yeah. I mean, like... Oh, god. I'm trying to remember what the name of the show was. So I... I watch a lot of prepping and wilderness survival based shows. Somewhat to remind myself that nature is dangerous and also because I find them very amusing. And there was one that was... It wasn't entirely clear if it was a reality show or if it was scripted or both. Pretty sure it was both, but they were in LA. And I forget what they had decided ... The LA one I don't think it was a disease. They had a different calamity happen each season. And in the first season they had a good variety of people. They had several mechanics, they had a couple of nurses and doctors. They had martial arts teachers. So they had a good cross-section of people. And they did decently well surviving in a big warehouse in LA and came up with some incredibly inventive weapons and things. I remember they created a flame thrower out of bits of an old car which was stunning to watch. But then the second season they were in New Orleans, in some of the areas that have been devastated by Katrina. And they had underestimated how swampy it was and how hard it was going to be to get food and how there were tons of snakes and alligators that we're going to kill you. And also that one had a disease element so every once in a while someone would get claimed by a contagious disease and they would just start disappearing. But the thing that really got to them I think is that they didn't have a very diverse group of people. They had a lot of schoolteachers and artists and that's great, that's important stuff, but if they don't have any trade skills as well, they're gonna drop like flies. So it's really important to take your creative energies and learn how to do something that can embrace that but also has a living purpose. #0:41:12.1# Margaret: Yeah. Yeah, as a generalist I think about that where most of my skills are graphic design and audio which is great when you want to start a podcast, if you have been doing electronic music for twenty years or whatever, you know? But I think I've really consciously been working on developing my skills that are not only on a computer, you know? For kind of this purpose. #0:41:39.1# Kitty: Well, hey. Electronic music and audio says to me, making ham radios. Practical and useful. There's always something there, it's just like finding what those things are. Though I will say this, the first season in the warehouse in LA they had a big issue with masculinity. #0:42:04.7# Margaret: I only watched the second season. #0:42:05.4# Kitty: Everybody was... #0:42:06.9# Margaret: I watched the one where they all... #0:42:07.5# Kitty: The first one is great. It's like all these male mechanics shouting at each other about how to fix something better and then this female mechanic just goes and does it. #0:42:16.8# Margaret: Yeah, that sounds like a perfect metaphor. #0:42:19.1# Kitty: And then they when they all brag about how proud that they came up with this idea and she just rolls her eyes and you're just like, "Yup, that's how it would be pretty much." And that said to me a lot about mediation. Knowing how to mediate, knowing your own triggers. Like knowing your own mental health stuff so that you can then navigate other people's mental health stuff. That's also super important. And easy for anybody to do. #0:42:44.9# Margaret: Yeah, yeah I think knowing different organization models. Like I think knowledge and facilitation is a really important skill. I think people basically pick whichever organizational model seems to be practical when the existing larger structure goes away. And I've been in spaces where we haven't been sure how we're going to organize ourselves and I'm surrounded by a bunch of non-anarchists and then I'm like, "Well here's this model where we're all equals but we still actually figure things out." And it just works as compared to I'm pretty sure if someone had been like, "Here's the model, I'm pretty much in charge." And maybe it'll be like some veneer of democracy where he'll be like, and I'm just going to use 'he' for this imaginary patriarch... #0:43:28.5# Kitty: I wonder why. #0:43:29.7# Margaret: He'll be like, "I'm in charge and the we can have a little vote about that if we wanna prove that I'm in charge," you know? And everyone will be like, "Well, he's the one who is offering to get shit done." And what... Of course what people fail to realize is that's like... We get shit done, collectively. Whether it's collectively we do it and someone is taking the credit by being up top, you know? Or whether we do it... So that's one of the things that I think about with prepping. How to... And I think that's maybe one of the things that right-wing preppers are afraid of is they're like... They don't have... The only people skills that they know is this hierarchical system. Well, I guess there's plenty of leftists who also only seem to know hierarchical systems. But... #0:44:13.2# Kitty: I mean it's a pretty... It's a pretty common system. That's why... That's why I kind of enjoy the, everybody gets to be an expert in their own thing so that nobody is super... Nobody can be too pleased with themselves. Keeps everybody humble, I think. #0:44:34.3# Margaret: Yeah. So the one other main question that I... Or thing that I kinda wanna hash out with you for this which is probably gonna be the first episode, everyone who's listening will know whether or not it's the first episode. It will be very embarrassing if this is the seventeenth episode, but... Maybe talk about different threat models. That's... How we we determine what we need, of course, is dependent on what we think is likely to happen and as there's no one-size-fits all. And so you say the primary threat model that you're working with is a natural disaster. Do you want to talk about that or do you want to talk about other threat models or... #0:45:12.8# Kitty: Sure. Well, I think... Okay, a great example is the things that I want for a earthquake is not necessarily what I would want in a tsunami, right? Those are very different natural disasters. As somebody who grew up in hurricane country-ish, you know, it was just really really wet. And having a dust mask would not have helped me in any way. But I would be at much more risk of getting trench foot so that would be like, waterpreoof boots would be way more important. So some of it's knowing your environment and being aware of what your environmental concerns ar. Like living in a city, asbestos is a big fundamental concern. So having dust masks is really important. I feel like I read once that most deaths aren't... In an earthquake, come from inhaling the debris. And that... That causes some of the worst injuries because there's just all of this dust everywhere and... I know that was definitely true with the fires. A lot of people have... Still have some... Some still have breathing problems now from the various fires that were going on in Northern California. So knowing what you need to be concerned about. Like with earthquakes, knowing that the roads might not be super useful to drive on. So having alternative plans for that knowing where your bike paths are. Knowing... If you have a wheelchair for example, maybe thinking of a way to add some tread on your wheelchair might be a practical option. I have a beach cruiser. It's not a racing bike by any means but it's heavy and it's easy to find the parts. And it's really easy to fix myself, that's why I chose that. So thinking about what you can actually do, I think is helpful in figuring out your... Your strategy. I know that I don't know enough about my car to be able to completely dismantle it. However, I do know somebody who does know enough about my car to do that. So I can bike to him and then have him do that. So coming up with those kind of like, "Okay, if this then this, if this then this" strategies helps me at least, I have a very ADHD brain. It helps me have a... A process to go through. Now in California, earthquakes are a big concern especially in this area but fire is also a big concern. And the way I would prepare for a fire versus an earthquake, I would be more concerned about my paperwork disappearing in a fire than an earthquake. Though to be completely honest I'm not that fussed about my paperwork in general. I don't think getting rid of paperwork is the worst plan. But that's not what the government wants to hear from me. So I have... I have some paperwork in a folder that's easy to access if I need to grab something go because my apartment is burning but I wouldn't be as... I wouldn't care much about that if it was an earthquake because in my consideration there would will be enough of a drastic interruption in services for an earthquake that I don't think that that would be an immediate need. #0:49:16.3# Margaret: Yeah and you wouldn't certainly be the only one who has lost their paperwork. 
#0:49:20.4# Kitty: Right, exactly. Exactly. And again, I think that we use paperwork as a penalty for so many people that... Maybe mucking up that system a little bit is a convenient little thing I can do on the side. So I... Yeah, I guess... And all of that is completely separate from thinking of having invaders come and try to take my apartment away from me or something. That... I usually strategise for that by thinking about what my plan are if the cops get even more out of control. #0:50:02.9# Margaret: Right. Like fascist takeovers is on my... On my threat model list, you know? #0:50:08.9# Kitty: Yeah, yeah, totally. And you know... The cops have been pretty shitty around here for quite a while, so... You know, it's been a slowly increasing... Plan. But I mean... For me, I'm not interested in trying to shoot my way through the cops. I have no problem with people who that is their plan, I think it's great that there are people who are inclined that way, but I'm gonna go full rogue. I'm sneaky. I'm going to go to the sewers. I'm not as... I'm not as interested in that kind of direct conflict. So my model for that... Or like my managements for that would be really, really different from natural disasters. And I kind of feel like that are all the things that might actually happen. I mean, I guess a meteor could hit but... Eh. The prepping I do for every other disaster would be fine for that probably. Or I'd be dead. And wouldn't care. So... How about you? What are your... What's your threat model? #0:51:23.0# Margaret: So I live on a floodplain. It's not supposed to be a floodplain but global warming has made it a floodplain. And the mountains... When I first moved to the mountains, I grew up in the foothills, and when I moved into the mountains it... It kind of blew my mind that flooding is a problem because in my mind I'm like, "Well, everything is high up" and actually flooding is at least as much of a problem in... Well, the flooding is a problem in a lot different places, you know hurricanes cause floods, but flash floods in the mountains are very real especially in an era of mountaintop removal mining. which is not immediate thing immediately around me but it certainly affects places within a couple hours of where I live in Appalachia. But, you know, storms... Like the weather patterns are just changing dramatically and by living in rurally I'm not as defended against that in some ways because there's not a large crew of people working to try and figure out how to make sure that the little place that I live is... Is safe. And so we have to do it to whatever... Because you're not supposed to mess with of waterways, we have to do it through the state and all that, but in the meantime our land floods. And so... It flooded a couple days ago and I had to go out and try and prevent it from getting worse through whatever means. And... And I actually had this moment, you're talking about paperwork, I started walking into this flood with my wallet in my pocket. And then eventually realized that that was a bad idea. My wallet does not need to be in my pocket. I'm not going to get asked for my papers or need to purchase anything while I'm walking into this flood and... And so it's a... So natural disaster is like the top... Climate change affecting everything is my top threat model where I live. But fascist takeover is on there and fascist takeover... Is a really different set of problems. #0:53:42.9# Kitty: Yeah. And it's different kind of... #0:53:43.8# Margaret: And a lot of it still comes down to knowing your neighbors. #0:53:46.1# Kitty: It's a different set of prepping as well. It's a totally different set skills. #0:53:50.8# Margaret: Yeah. And I mean there's... And one of the things I was thinking about is... The thing I was really... That I realized, a lot of my... I've spent a lot of my life living outdoors. I was a traveling anarchist living out of a backpack, and I was a forest defender and was a squatter and I lived in a van, and now I live in a cabin. Almost half my life I've lived out... Off grid, essentially. And I was thinking how when in February I'm waist and sometimes chest deep in water, I was thinking how glad I am that just kind of by default prefer certain types of practical clothes. It's funny 'cause I... Most of the time... I built my house wearing a dress. But when I'm like, "Okay it's rainy," and I put my puffy vest and my waders, my muck boots, and wool socks. And I wasn't nearly as concerned about hypothermia, which is a major problem in floods especially in February, just because I wasn't wearing much cotton. And it's funny like because I never think about my outdoors skills. Like how to start a fire with tinder and flint and steel and all that. That's not... I don't really see a version of the world where I'm living in the woods alone and hunting squirrels and whatever the fuck, you know? But there are gonna be moments where I might be like... Needing to not get hypothermia while I'm trying to clear up a dam that's forming or whatever. #0:55:26.9# Kitty: Yeah, yeah. Two pairs of wool socks should be on everyone's list in their go bag for sure. #0:55:34.3# Margaret: Yeah, I keep a second vest... #0:55:35.7# Kitty: And the more wool clothing you have the better. #0:55:39.4# Margaret: But what's funny is than I was thinking that through when you're talking about fires, I was thinking about California, I was like... Well, actually the same clothes that are really good in flood and maybe a tsunami are not good in fire. You don't want to wear synthetic in a fire situation. So... But over all... #0:56:00.1# Kitty: But you actually do wanna wear cotton. #0:56:02.6# Margaret: Yeah. Yeah... #0:56:05.0# Kitty: I remember I used to... I used to blacksmith with my dad and he would be like, "What are you wearing? That's really impractical for this." I'm like, "It's fine. It's cotton, it'll just roll right off. You can't catch fire in cotton." He was like, "That's not really true... But it's more true, I guess." #0:56:22.2# Margaret: It's better than polyester. #0:56:24.0# Kitty: Yes, certainly, yes. #0:56:25.3# Margaret: It's not going to melt into your skin. #0:56:27.9# Kitty: I have melted through so many skirts with some prep butts for sure. And I'm sort of learning at this point that that's... That's a concern. But yeah, I mean that's definitely an area of my prepping that I need to be better about. Is just having practical clothes. I don't have that much in the way of practical clothes that can fold up really small and actually keep me warm or keep me cool. #0:56:59.3# Margaret: Yeah. But sometimes people over... Overestimate the importance of this. I've definitely gone hiking in maxi skirts all time. And every time I go hiking with someone new in a maxi skirt they're like, "Margaret, do you wanna wear that?" And I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me, I've been hiking in these skirts for the past fifteen years I know what the fuck I'm doing." Yeah, they might get caught and rip on things but whatever, you know? So there's a... There's a... I'm suddenly defensive about like, "Oh no, you don't need practical clothes." I don't know, maybe... Maybe we all need practical clothes. But maybe sometimes... #0:57:31.7# Kitty: You definitely need socks and I would recommend more than one pair of underwear. Probably cotton just for... #0:57:38.9# Margaret: But that's, yeah... #0:57:39.2# Kitty: Keeping your genitals fresh. But other then that... You can figure it out. I mean... But also clothes are not exactly in short supply either. There's a lot of trash fashion that we can pad up to make something acceptable. #0:58:01.8# Margaret: Well, in a lot of disaster areas people gather clothes to bring there and all the people there are like, "Why did you bring us fucking clothes. Bring us fucking clean water. What you doing?" #0:58:12.6# Kitty: Well they're bringing clothes because you can't burn them in India or China anymore, right? So it's like, "Oh, we'll give it to poor people." #0:58:22.1# Margaret: That way we get to feel better and clean out our closet, yeah #0:58:25.7# Kitty: Yup. I mean it's just... I guess that's another... That another threat, is just being buried under stuff. Just trash. Just being slowly buried alive under trash. #0:58:39.4# Margaret: Well that's the... That's the status quo problem, right? There's... If the world doesn't end and it keeps going the way it goes that's also kind of horrible. #0:58:49.7# Kitty: Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess actually another threat model that I think a lot about is disease. Disease is definitely a big concern. We... I live in a city where everyone is on top each other. So... A disease can spread incredibly quickly. I remembered there was a person who went to Berkeley Bowl who had the measles or something and they just quarantined Berkeley bowl. And I was like, "I'm not leaving the house for two weeks, just in case, who knows?" And that's even with having a vaccine. It's just... Knowing that when the electricity fails a lot of things like vaccines are going to become a lot more difficult, if not impossible... #0:59:43.0# Margaret: To acquire or whatever? #0:59:45.1# Kitty: And then... And then it's... Yeah, to acquire, keep them cold. To refrigerate medications, that's not going to be possible. So figuring out that is also something I try to be somewhat aware of. Having alternatives to medication, having alternatives to street drugs also. So knowing about... Knowing how to use Narcan. Knowing a little about... I don't even know how to pronounce that, I've only seen it read... Kratom? #1:00:23.5# Margaret: Kratom I think. #1:00:25.6# Kitty: Yeah, so that has been used by a bunch of my friends when they've been withdrawing from opiates. So having stuff that could work as an alternate... I've always packed some pot in my medic bag even though I don't smoke pot. Because it's so useful for so many different things... That it's worth just having it in there. And that's something that could be a real problem. A bunch of people withdrawing at once... Is a huge problem. A bunch of people getting sick at once is a huge problem. So having alternatives for that stuff is something that I'm looking a lot more into. #1:01:13.4# Margaret: Yeah, that's interesting that... I haven't thought about that. #1:01:16.3# Kitty: And that's what... #1:01:16.3# Margaret: The... Specifically withdrawing. #1:01:18.6# Kitty: That's just really something right-wing people don't think about that. I've noticed this. They're afraid of... Sorry, I forget the actual terminology, again ADHD brain, and I tend to call things... Like I called bars alcohol restaurants, that's just... How my brain works. But there's some doomsday thing that a lot of people are hype on... #1:01:39.4# Margaret: Coronavirus? #1:01:41.8# Kitty: About... No, no, no. I wish it was that, that would make much sense but no. They're just being racist and frantic about that while not thinking about the flu which kills a lot more people. But anyway... No. It's the... It's like a solar flare is going to knock out all of our electricity? #1:02:02.9# Margaret: Oh, 'cause then it'll EMP us or whatever? #1:02:05.4# Kitty: That's the one, yes. There's so many of them who are so focused on that but then they don't think about disease at all. And that just blows my mind because disease is way more likely. #1:02:19.9# Margaret: Yeah, people are bad at threat modeling. #1:02:21.0# Kitty: Within our lifetime we've seen multiple plagues. #1:02:25.0# Margaret: Yeah. I mean it's... #1:02:27.7# Kitty: It's just really surprising. #1:02:29.7# Margaret: I think some of it is about... I mean most of it's that people are bad at threat modeling. But I think some of it is like people... Enjoy certain types of threats. Like preparing for certain types of threats more than others. And also probably enjoy preparing like... For something that makes them feel like they have more agency instead of less agency, you know? If you're someone who... All of your skills are about non-electric things you can be really excited about the power grid going down. But I don't know. #1:03:02.8# Kitty: But I mean... That is... That is another area to think about when it comes to ableism, for example. A lot of diabetics aren't going to be able to get access to their medication. So figuring out how do you deal with that. And I don't think there... I don't know that I have answer to that, I don't know that anybody does. While that's for certain something that I would want to... Know more about. #1:03:28.0# Margaret: I think that's why we have to not... It's why the end of the world is bad. Like disaster is actually a really bad thing. Like people clearly get kind of hooked on it, right, because they suddenly have agency in their lives and they... You know, and... Everything I've ever read or talk to people about, like suicide goes down, like psychotic breaks go down, things like that during crisis. And it's... But it's still, at the end of the day, something that if we can avert it we should. And that's actually why... As much as climate change is going to affect things, there are going to be disasters, there's going to be interruptions in our society, if there's ways we can find to make sure that that doesn't kill so many people or ruin so many lives... Even if it ruins economic systems, maybe, you know... And of course as an anarchist I say this, maybe the solution is to ruin the existing economic system. Although ideally by transferring it over to a system that... You know... So that we still have access to the... The things we need in the meantime. Which is actually, it gets... I'm almost done with this rant. The whole... There's a threat that the whole like... There's a Durruti quote where during the Spanish Civil War... Someone asks him, "Well, what about all the destruction of this revolution?" And he's like, "Well, we're workers, we're not afraid of ruins. Why would we be afraid of ruins, we're the ones who built this city, we can build again." And I think about... Often people are like, well, and this is a tangent 'cause now I'm talking about anarchist society, people are like, "In an anarchist society, how would you have antibiotics?" I'd be like "Well, I don't know, how do we fucking have them now? We'll do that. Or maybe a different way, I don't know." And there's still people in the apocalypse, right? There's still a ton of people in disaster and we all know how to do stuff. And so even if like the electrical grid dies, that doesn't mean there's no power. It doesn't mean there's no hospital, even, you know? There's... Like even... We can... Fix these things and do these things and some of those are already prepared for that. #1:05:43.8# Kitty: Yeah. And I mean... And I think... I guess I would say that while it's good to be prepared, I also think it's important not to psyche yourself out. I think it's important to... Not get too excited about it. Because the fact is a lot of people, a lot of black and brown people especially, disabled people especially, will die. In any kind of disaster that you would want to prep for. That's just... That's how we structured our society and that is going to happen. So I think that that is something to be aware of before getting too thrilled about... The end of the world, right? So that you're kinda saying some really fucked up stuff at the same time. And frankly I don't know that I would survive a disaster like that. But I do know that I don't think I could do it by myself. I do think I could do it with community. And I think that that's why I'm so focus on community and mutual aid. I read A Paradise Built In Hell and it's this really interesting book that looks at different disasters and kind of has that... Isn't it interesting how a disaster happens and people come together and help each other even when everything has gone shit. And how... I think this was kinda the intention of the author of this book but she does seem to point out a lot... Isn't it also interesting how often the government steps in and tells them to stop doing that? So no, that is not okay. And will actually murder people to prevent them from helping each other. And I think that... That's something I'd consider as sort of a secondary threat model is... The government trying to prevent people from actually doing okay without them. It's like an ultimate abusive relationship. And figuring out how to deal with that... When you're being funneled into resources that are not ready to handle them. Yeah, so I mean, you know, it's a lot. #1:08:25.9# Margaret: Well this is a... This is a really good... This is going to be the first episode and... So I think we've covered a lot of... Thanks for helping me kind of... Almost like set up what this show will hopefully drill down more about and yeah, thanks so much for... Talking to me about all this stuff today. #1:08:46.8# Kitty: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm glad we could kind of work out... Sort of, here's all of the issues for... Here's a selection of all of the issues. But wait, there's more. #1:08:58.8# Margaret: Yeah, no, exactly. #1:08:59.1# Kitty: I'm looking forward to seeing the series. It should be pretty cool. #1:09:03.7# Margaret: Cool. Alright, well... Thank you so much. #1:09:06.5# Kitty: Thank you. #1:09:08.0# (Musical transition) #1:09:11.7# Margaret: Thanks for listening to the first ever episode of Live Like The World Is Dying. If you enjoyed the podcast, please tell your friends. Tell iTunes, tell Apple podcasts, tell whatever platform you get your podcasts on that you liked the podcast by subscribing, by reviewing it, by rating it and all of those things. It actually makes a huge difference and I think it'll especially a huge difference for the first couple episodes of a podcast. If you'd like to see this podcast continue, you can support me on Patreon. I... I make most of my living through my Patreon which allows me to spend my time creating content and I'm wildly, wildly grateful that that's something that I get to do with my life. In particular, I would like to thank Chris and Nora and Hoss the dog, Willow, Kirk, Natalie, and Sam. Y'all really make this possible and I can't thank you enough. Alright, thanks so much. And join us next time. #1:10:10.0# (Outroductory music) This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary On This Year in the Apocalypse, Miriam and Inmn talk about the shit show that was 2025 and how they think you the greatest weapon moving forward is hope and doing cool shit with your friends. Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn and Miriam talk about regional gatherings, ways to frame them, and why the simple act of having them is a great way to build preparedness infrastructure and more resilient communities that are ready to respond to disasters of all kinds. Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, James and Inmn talk about map and compass navigation and why it's a great skill to learn, as well as the importance of learning to get around without our phones and how we can change our relationship to the outdoors. Host Info James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary Miriam talks with Gabe and Kato from the Astoria Food Pantry, a radical food pantry that has food, books, and RPGs, about how the project works, how giving away shit for free is cool, how awesome mutual aid distros are, and how we could sure use more of them, especially ones with RPGs. Find them at https://www.astoriafoodpantry.com/ or on IG @astoriafoodpantry. Find DMDM's 3D-printed Tourniquets at dmdm.icu Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This month in the apocalypse, James and Inmn talk about a large blow to public lands, s shooting at Planned Parenthood (no one dies), new additions to the FTO list, and a really inspiring group of runaways. Host Info James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, James teaches Inmn about cold weather layering systems on a budget, based on Mark Twight's layering system. James dispels a lot of myths about warm clothing and lays out a lot of practical advice to building your cold weather fir for different occasions. Host Info James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live like the World is Dying, we talk about doxxing, what it is, and how to prevent bad actors of all kinds from using your identity, information, and digital presence against you and your loved ones. Host Info Casandra can be found on BlueSky @hey-casandra.bsky.social. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Carrot talks to Inmn about her Substack post "Where Would You Go if You Left the US?" a dive into considerations everyone should have when thinking about whether it feels like time to leave the US, whether due to political persecution, identity, or wanting to get out of a destabilizing fascist state. Read the article on Carrot's Substack. Guest Info Carrot Quinn is the author of "Thru-Hiking Will Break Your Heart" and "The Sunset Route", as well as eleven thousand miles of daily hiking blogs at carrotquinn.com and a weekly newsletter at substack.com/@carrotquinn Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.Read transcript

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, Brooke, Inmn, and Miriam talk about everything that happened in October, from the government shut down not being what anyone hoped those words would ever mean, to the joyful resistance of frogs and horses in the streets, to the devastating floods from typhoon Halong along the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Brooke can be found on Mastodon @ogemakwebrooke. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.Read transcript

Episode Summary When a friend has been bit, stung, burnt, or otherwise injured by something, do you often wonder, "Should I suck on it, piss on it, smear butter on it, or stab the person?" Spoiler alert: no. This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam and James answer all these questions and more about medical myths that sound more like kinks, from what not to do to animal bites and what not to use as a tourniquet. Bite and tie people up with seatbelts elsewhere, and with consent. Links https://www.vice.com/en/article/did-a-barista-put-a-tampon-in-a-cops-frappuccino-an-investigation/ Host Info James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Shawn talks to Miriam about urban farming, how much food they can produce, the amount of land they use, the cultural impact they can have, and the importance of food and land sovereignty. LInks Farm Philly Pennsylvania Horticultural Society Pasa Sustainable Agriculture Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam interviews Inmn about infrastructural systems for outdoor gathers, what to look out for, and how to not give everyone norovirus. Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, James and Brooke talk with Chip about how to get into fixing your car, even though it feels overwhelming, difficult, and expensive. They go over starter tool sets, where to source parts, and what not to skimp on. Guest Info Chip can be found of Twitter @deimosrises. Host Info James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Summary This time on This Month in the Apocalypse, Margaret, James, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in September, from what's going on with the climate, to immigration courts, to the already not the latest executive order. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Carrot talks to Inmn how to not get lost while exploring the outdoors with a variety of navigation techniques, tricks, and tips. Guest Info Carrot Quinn is the author of "Thru-Hiking Will Break Your Heart" and "The Sunset Route", as well as eleven thousand miles of daily hiking blogs at carrotquinn.com and a weekly newsletter at substack.com/@carrotquinn Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary Do you feel overwhelmed by the amount of information that's out there? Do you feel uncertain what to believe, what to think is fake, and what's a rumor? Well, this week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn interviews Miriam and James about rumors, misinformation, and building media literacy, so that we can all know, with a little more certainty, what's going on. Host Info James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary This week on Live like the World is Dying, Casandra talks to Inmn about how to mediate a conflict. We've already covered the "why" of conflict mediation, and now it's time for the "how." We also turned this interview into a Feature Zine called Pocket Guide to Conflict Mediation. You can read it for free at tangledwilderness.org. Host Info Casandra can be found on BlueSky @hey-casandra.bsky.social and Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtailartificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, Brooke, Inmn, and Miriam talk about everything that happened in August, covering wild fires, data centers, a very famous sandwich, the state of policing and resistance to it, and a complicated victory. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Brooke can be found on Mastodon @ogemakwebrooke. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, we have a crossover episode with the Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness podcast where Miriam talks with Andy about his zine that is our featured zine for August and state of the world that inspired it. The title says it all. Find the zine at www.tangledwilderness.org. Guest Info Andy works with the Chosen Family Law Center, which offers free legal services for non-nuclear and LBGTQ families. Chosenfamilylawcenter.org @andyeyeballs.bsky.social Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwildernes This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn is joined by Bryce from No More Deaths to talk about their recently published map of migrant deaths in the border lands and the context that makes this report incredibly important. You can read the report at NoMoreDeaths.org Guest Info No More Deaths can be found at nomoredeaths.org, on Instagram @nomoredeaths_nomasmuertes, or on Twitter @nomoredeaths. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn talks with Bex about the challenges of learning new skills as an adult, different models for learning, and an experiment Bex is doing with a "learning cohort" model to increase the amount of off-grid and preparedness skills that her community has access to without anyone having to learn it all. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery or on Bluesky @inmnneruin.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, James, Miriam, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in July, including another heinous Executive Order by Trump, updates from Gaza, the story of a tent city at a military base in the US, and how heat domes and floods go hand in hand. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn talks with Logan about how to get into foraging wild mushrooms. They demystify some of the dangers of mushroom foraging, as well as talk about ways to grow your own mushrooms. They do not talk about how to identify specific mushrooms, nor should this episode be a guide for going out and identifying any particular mushrooms. Guest Info Logan is certified in mushroom identification in Kansas (cert #534). Find Logan at Mushrooms by L.B. Facebook https://www.facebook.com/people/Mushrooms-by-LB/61558336499465/ Links Identification guides National Audobon Society Mushrooms of North America https://namyco.org/review/national-audubon-society-mushrooms-of-north-america/ Forest Service Mushroom Identification https://www.fs.usda.gov/nrs/pubs/gtr/gtr_nrs79.pdf The Mushroom Guide and Identifier https://archive.org/details/the-mushroom-guide-and-identifier/mode/2up The below are suppliers Logan uses for his mushroom products Field and Forest https://www.fieldforest.net/ Midwest Grow Kits https://www.midwestgrowkits.com/ Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, James and Brooke talk with Chiya about mesh radio systems. Mesh radios are portable, anonymous, and encrypted communication devices. They talk about how to set them up, how they work, the different features that they offer, and how they fit into preparedness models and mutual aid work. Links: Signals Rising Card Tracker Radio Meshtastic Radios Host Info James can be found on BlueSky ‪@jamesstout.bsky.social Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Summary This week on Live like the World is Dying, Casandra and Kai Cheng chat about conflict deescalation, somatics, transformative justice, and dreaming of abolitionist futures. Guest Info Kai Cheng Thom is an author, healer, mediator, sex educator, lasagna lover, and wicked witch. Developer of the Loving Justice Methodology. Dreamer. She's written a few books, and some of them are even good! She's an extremist for love. Explore Kai's work at: https://kaichengthom.com/ Links Read some of Kai's writing on conflict deescalation , mediation, and transformative justice: https://kaichengthom.substack.com/p/how-to-de-escalate-conflict-and-build https://substack.com/@kaichengthom/p-159387084 https://ariseembodiment.org/2022/04/05/the-window-of-transformation/ https://ariseembodiment.org/2021/07/07/trauma-group-conflict/ https://kaichengthom.com/2021/06/21/the-loving-justice-conflict-lens/ Host Info Casandra can be found on BlueSky @hey-casandra.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, James, Miriam, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in June, including a dive into the wildfires in Canada, an update the state of immigration enforcement, and a bit about a contentious election in NYC. Also, friend of the pod, Kneecap makes another appearance. Here's a link for the fundraiser James mentions for Primrose: http://gofund.me/dda02cc7 Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Bluesky Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.Read transcript

Episode Notes This week on Live Like the World is Dying, we have part two of a crossover episode with the Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness podcast, with our monthly feature zine Martyr Culture by Sara Blum., which is an essay about martyr culture within the Kurdish Freedom Movement. In the last episode we had an audio version of the zine as well as an interview with Sara about the piece and her time with the YPJ. Today's episode continues the interview. If you'd like to read the piece then check out our monthly features . You can also get a physical copy of our future monthly feature zines by signing up for our Patreon . Our June feature was generously provided by Sara Blum, an internationalist who spent several years with the YPJ in Rojava, to accompany and contextualize our newest book, Orso: Wartime Journals of an Anarchist, which is currently available for preorder as of right now at tangledwilderness.org, and will be regularly available/ship out in early-mid July. Orso contains the first-person narrative of Lorenzo Orso Orsetti–also known as Heval (he-vawl) Tekoser (teko-cher) Piling (pih-ling), now Sehid (sheh-heath) Tekoser (teko-cher) or “martyr Tekoser–an internationalist soldier in Rojava. This journal was published in its original Italian following Oro's death. We're excited to bring you the first English edition, which includes additional essays that share the historical and cultural context in which Orso lived, fought, and died. We're excited to bring his message to a new audience. The struggle against Daesh for an autonomous, liberated region in Rojava is bigger than one person, but one person's life can offer us a glimpse of a vast project and how one life can fit into it. Sara's essay helps build a backdrop for the world Orso gives us a glimpse of in his journals. This is part one of this episode, as the interview with Sara ended up being quite long. Tune in in 2 weeks for the second half of the interview, as next week is This Month in the Apocalypse on Live Like the World is Dying. We won't get to it until the second half of the interview, but the word of the month this month is about those who are mindful. Publisher This podcast is published by Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org or on Twitter @tangledwild. You can support this show by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Host The host is Inmn Neruin. You can find them on instagram @shadowtail.artificery Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness BlueSky. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Notes This week on Live Like the World is Dying, we have a crossover episode with the Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness Podcast, with our monthly feature zine Martyr Culture by Sara Blum., which is an essay about martyr culture within the Kurdish Freedom Movement. We have an audio version of the zine as well as an interview with Sara about the piece and her time with the YPJ. But, if you'd like to read along then check out our monthly features on our website and you can read along there for free. You can also get a physical copy of our monthly feature zine, but unfortunately not this one, by signing up for our Patreon . Our June feature was generously provided by Sara Blum, an internationalist who spent several years with the YPJ in Rojava, to accompany and contextualize our newest book, Orso: Wartime Journals of an Anarchist, which is currently available for preorder as of right now at tangledwilderness.org, and will be regularly available/ship out in early-mid July.  Orso contains the first-person narrative of Lorenzo Orso Orsetti–also known as Heval (he-vawl) Tekoser (teko-cher) Piling (pih-ling), now Sehid (sheh-heath) Tekoser (teko-cher) or “martyr Tekoser–an internationalist soldier in Rojava. This journal was published in its original Italian following Oro's death. We're excited to bring you the first English edition, which includes additional essays that share the historical and cultural context in which Orso lived, fought, and died. We're excited to bring his message to a new audience. The struggle against Daesh for an autonomous, liberated region in Rojava is bigger than one person, but one person's life can offer us a glimpse of a vast project and how one life can fit into it. Sara's essay helps build a backdrop for the world Orso gives us a glimpse of in his journals. This is part one of this episode, as the interview with Sara ended up being quite long. Tune in in 2 weeks for the second half of the interview, as next week is This Month in the Apocalypse on Live Like the World is Dying. We won't get to it until the second half of the interview, but the word of the month this month is about those who are mindful.  Publisher This podcast is published by Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org or on Twitter @tangledwild. You can support this show by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Host The host is Inmn Neruin. You can find them on instagram @shadowtail.artificery Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness BlueSky. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Notes This week on Live Like the World is Dying, James and Miriam talk about how to stay safe while danger lurks all around. They talk about some health and safety basics for protest like security culture, gear to consider wearing, things to keep in a first-kit, and dangers you might encounter like projectiles, tear gas, and pepper spray. They talk about how to treat chemical irritant injuries as well some helpful reminders of how not to treat chemical injuries. They also cover first-aid basic talking about stopping bleeding, assessing injuries, and how to avoid injuring people further when treating them. Stay safe out there. Host Info James can be found on Bluesky @jamesstout.bsky.social Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers Bluesky. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Summary This time on a special episode of Live like the World is Dying, Casandra talks to James about what's been going on in LA with the ICE protests and resistance. They talk about the deployment of the National Guard and Marines, what people have been doing in the streets, what the police have been doing, and debunk some misinformation. Host Info Casandra can be found on BlueSky @hey-casandra.bsky.social. James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live like the World is Dying, Brooke and Casandra talk about the ins and outs of keeping birds—chickens and quail specifically. We discuss all things food, shelter, eggs, and how to care for extremely accident-prone feathered friends. Host Info Brooke can be found on Mastodon @ogemakwebrooke and Casandra can be found on BlueSky @hey-casandra.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, James, Brooke, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in May, including two very different set of refugees, the ongoing war in Ukraine and its affects on Poland, some legal updates on Oak Flat, an exciting tree sit in Washington, abortion legislation in Missouri, libraries, a very cute bear, and two pop culture pod favorites: Bruce Springsteen and Kneecap. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Brooke can be found on Mastodon @ogemakweBrooke. James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn talks with Dorothy about Canada's police force that was designed specifically to fuck with land defenders. They talk about Canada's history as a petro state, the extraction projects that the police force was designed to protect, and the land defense movements that sprung up to resist. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam and Inmn continue their talk with Olson about how to organize and put on DIY shows and events. They go over some of the information in this month's feature zine from Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness "Hey Gang, Let's Put on a Show." You can read the zine here. Miriam's dog is unfortunately loud in this one. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam and Inmn talk with Olson about how to organize and put on DIY shows and events. They go over some of the information in this month's feature zine from Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness "Hey Gang, Let's Put on a Show." You can read the zine here. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam talks with Jamie about libraries: how cool they are, what amazing resources they have, how they are so imminently in danger, and how you can help them out. Maybe. Links Library Freedom Project For the People: a leftist library project For the People Substack Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwildernes Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, Miriam, Brooke, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in April, from people being mistakenly deported, to a conflict between Maine and the Trump administration over trans athletes in high school sports, to the battle in Congress over Sesame Street. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Brooke can be found on Mastodon @ogemakweBrooke. Miram can be found on the Strangers Bluesky making funnies. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Harvest and Casandra talk about getting to know native plants in your area, learning through observation, and how to gather, save, and sow seeds. Find a cool zine Harvest made to go along with the episode here: https://www.tangledwilderness.org/live-like-the-world-is-dying/harvest-on-native-plants-and-seed-saving Host Info Casandra can be found on BlueSky @hey-casandra.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary Casandra interviews Aaron from Propaganda by the Seed and Edgewood Nursery all about trees. We discuss why and how people might grow trees, and how that relates to food sovereignty and community preparedness. Guest Info Aaron podcasts at Propaganda by the Seed and runs Edgewood Nursery Propaganda by the Seed Podcast — Edgewood Nursery  Instagram (@propagandabytheseed)  Instagram (@edgewoodnursery)  Edgewood Nursery | Falmouth ME  Edgewood Nursery (@edgewood.bsky.social)  Propaganda By The Seed Podcast (@bytheseed.bsky.social) Links Cornelian Cherry Figs Paw Paws Hazelnuts Eating Acorns podcast The way I collect and process Acorns Mulberries Siberian Peashrub Pigeon Peas on Seeds and Their People Mt. Joy Orchard - A free to pick public orchard in Portland, Maine - IG  // website Host Info Casandra can be found on BlueSky @hey-casandra.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Notes Blurb This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Casandra and Samantha talk about managing pregnancy and fertility outside a clinical context. Guest Info Samantha Zipporah is a blood midwife, author & educator in service to healing & liberation. Sam's path rises from an ancient lineage of midwives, witches, & wise women with expertise spanning the continuum of birth, sex, & death. She is devoted to connecting people with the innate pleasure, power, & wisdom of the body. Her praxis weaves scientific & soulful inquiry that integrates modern scientific data with ancestral practices & epistemologies. Sam's most recent publications & offerings center the radical reclamation of contraception & abortion from the medical industrial complex. Her online membership, The Fruit of Knowledge Learning Community, features access to her heart & mind via books, courses, Q&As, curated resources & more. Visit www.samanthazipporah.com to explore womb wisdom offerings & join Fruit of Knowledge. Sam's music & memoirs can be found on Patreon as The Venus Christ. Links https://www.samanthazipporah.com/ SZ Abortion Resource List SZ's Home Abortion Resource List A Place for Herbal Abortion in Clinical Herbalism Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, James, Brooke, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in March, from how sun finally set on the British Empire, to how tariffs actually work, to how Texas finally started to believe in the concept of gender identity (for a bad reason), and how the US is doing really messed up things with immigration and prisons in El Salvador. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Brooke can be found on Mastodon @ogemakweBrooke. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the the World is Dying, Inmn talks with Hazel about the zine How To Do It Anyway: a guide to self-managed abortion. You can read the zine for free at tangledwilderness.org Links All-Options is a reproductive rights organization that providing support and resources to all pregnancy, parenting, abortion, and adoption experiences, and they really need our help right now! In the zine, I plug their talk line that offers an unbiased, judgement free and open-hearted support from trained peer supporters, as well as a program offering spiritual counseling from abortion-positive faith leaders. They also run several practical support programs in their home state of Indiana, including an abortion fund, a diaper network, and a pregnancy resource center (where people can get help with diapers, period products, birth control, and abortion funding, all at the same time!). They really fill a critical gap in abortion access and general repro care, but they (like many abortion orgs) are feeling the crunch of non-profit industrial complex money drying up around abortion: they face a very real chance of closing by the end of June 2025. Especially as the full effects of a second Trump presidency begin to hit us, it's critical to support independent, locally based Reproductive Justice and abortion access groups. If you want to help them keep their doors open as long as possible, head to: https://www.all-options.org. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Notes This isn't a real episode. It's an advertisement, but it's an advertisement for a really cool thing, a new new book by Margaret Killjoy that we're Kickstarting. You can get so many deals and cool rewards and stretch goals that have already been unlocked, as long as you're listening to this before March 21st at 9am est. If you're listening after that, then you can probably just go preorder or regular order the book! Kickstarter Link Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam talks with Andy about legal stuff on a lot of people's minds including executive orders, gender markers on government IDs, how studying law right now is terrifying and confusing but that despite that terror, practicing law is all about providing information and care, and some things for everyone to think about as the State advances policies. Guest Info Andy works with the Chosen Family Law Center, which offers free legal services for non-nuclear and LBGTQ families. Chosenfamilylawcenter.org @andyeyeballs.bsky.social Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwildernes Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn talks with Rowan about how to make different things out of plants, from cordage, to clothing, to laundry detergent. Guest Info Rowan (they/them) and their zines can be found at ko-fi.com/rowangroves Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary On This Month in the Apocalypse, the James, Brooke, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in February, which includes a lot other fall out from new Trump administration policies, including the spree of job terminations that will greatly affect the impact of wildfires, the defunding of child advocacy in immigration detention, the war in Ukraine, and the state of immigration detention in Panama. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. James can be found on Twitter @JamesStout or on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/Jamesstout. Brooke can be found on Mastodon @ogemakweBrooke. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam and Inmn talk with the Billion Oysters Project about their goal of growing one billion oysters in the New York Harbor. Need we say more? It's one billion oysters! Guest Info Billion Oysters Project is a nonprofit dedicated to restoring oyster beds to the New York Harbor through public education initiatives. They can be found at https://www.billionoysterproject.org/ Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Immortal Choir Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tangled-wilderness/the-immortal-choir-holds-every-voice Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam talks with Daly from the Electronic Frontier Foundation about basic information security. They talk about encryption, VPNs, and redefining what is and isn't public information. Guest Info Daly (she/they) is a senior staff technologist at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Daly can be reached at daly@eff.org, if you'd like to consult her about information security. The EFF is a digital civil liberties organization that makes sure that when you go online, your rights go with you. They can be found at EFF.org. Surveillance Self Defense Tips and Tools: https://ssd.eff.org/ Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwildernes Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Miriam and Casandra talk about different fiber crafts, from spinning to weaving to basketry, and the communities that develop around the crafts. Host Info Miriam can be found making funnies on the Strangers' Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwildernes Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.