Meeting of Minds Podcast

In episode 108, Jerry sits down with Rich Todd, CEO and co-founder of Innovest, to talk about one of the biggest drivers in value-based investments: financial consultants. Rich & Jerry discuss the Christian philosophical rebuttal to ESG & DEI, the importance of having an investment manager with a pro-Christian culture, and what it truly means to be “equally yoked” when it comes to your investment strategy, financial influence, & proxy voting.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Recently, Jerry (as president of Bowyer Research) gave a short speech to the board of directors of BlackRock, asking the company (1) to move back to political neutrality and (2) to go back to the classical economics of shareholder capitalism as opposed to stakeholderism. We present the speech (three minutes in length) here for our listeners to listen to.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Few people are as keyed in on ESG’s “war on food” as former Nebraska State Treasurer John Murante. In Ep. 107, Murante sits down with Jerry to discuss how corporate activism is leaning heavily into anti-agriculture sentiment, how utopian visions of animal welfare create dystopia in reality, and how fiduciary duty gets applied to everything from carbon emissions to crypto investments. Read John’s piece at NRO here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/11/esg-investing-hurts-the-poor-and-empowers-tyrants/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 106, Jerry sits down with Missouri Treasurer Vivek Malek to discuss the threat of China, the ongoing battle with Vanguard’s self-perpetuating autocracy, and the ‘Three-P’ approach: protecting taxpayers’ dollars, providing opportunities, and promoting the promise of America.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In. Ep. 105, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down for a conversation with Dr. Paul Mueller, senior fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research (AIER). Join us for an in-depth discussion of a Protestant approach to economics, how ESG agendas advance elitist ideology, and how G.K. Chesterton can fix our social media problems. Check out Dr. Mueller’s work at AIER here: https://aier.org/people/paul-mueller/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 104, Jerry sits down with Tim Schwarzenberger, CFA, of Inspire Investing. The next installment of our miniseries on a Catholic response to ESG explores how Christian investors can apply faith and prudential judgment to today’s complex investment landscape. They dive into the levels of Church teaching authority, discuss why reclaiming shareholder voice through proxy voting is so important, and examine how DEI and ESG frameworks often conflict with authentic Christian moral principles. Whether Catholic or broadly Christian, this conversation offers practical insights for investing faithfully and intentionally in a world of competing values. Inspire: www.inspireinvesting.com Follow Tim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timschwarzenbergercfa/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 103, Jerry sits down with Jonathan Berry, managing partner at Boyden Gray PLLC, in the next episode of our miniseries on a Catholic response to ESG. Join us for a discussion ranging from subsidiarity to diversity: we cover the historical roots of ESG & DEI ideology, the 'agency problem' and how ESG casts light on it, and the way that ESG often mirrors (and perverts) religious ways of thinking.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 102, Isaac from Bowyer Research sits down with Wade Myers, general partner at Eagle Venture Fund, and John de la Chapelle, COO at TruePathVision. Join us for a fantastic discussion on how Eagle is changing the game on impact investing, how TruePathVision is combating human trafficking in the hotel industry, and why Christians should embrace the growth of AI. Eagle Venture Fund: https://www.eagleventurefund.com/ TruePathVision: https://truepathvision.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Do sustainability initiatives actually fix the problems they claim to solve? In Ep. 101, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research sits down with Christian Britschgi of Reason Magazine to discuss how Starbucks' 2018 decision to nix plastic straws in the name of 'sustainability' ended up being far more complicated than anticipated, and what corporate activists often miss in their crusades against plastic use. Link to Christian's original piece here: Starbucks Bans Plastic Straws, Winds Up Using More PlasticSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 100, Jerry sits down with Dr. Andrew Abela, dean of the Busch School of Business at the Catholic University of America, for a discussion on how cardinal virtues drive good business and how businesses can cultivate true virtue in employees. Jerry & Dean Abela also discuss stewardship (and how ESG is not the answer), and how concepts like private property rights are indispensable to a free and responsible society. Check out Dean Abela's book Superhabits here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 99, Isaac Willour from Bowyer Research speaks with David Everitt, CEO of GameSafe, an AI start-up combating the way predators groom children via online gaming portals. From Microsoft to Roblox, online gaming is a hotbed for child abuse - and the private sector is working hard to generate solutions like GameSafe. NOTE: This episode contains descriptions of online child predation. Check out GameSafe here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 98, Dr. Samuel Gregg kicks off our series on Catholicism and ESG. He & Jerry discuss what a Catholic doctrine of the human person has to say about our economic vision, the moral response to ‘stakeholder capitalism,’ and why God’s command to stewardship & dominion doesn’t mean buying into false narratives about fossil fuels & environmental hysteria. Dr. Gregg is the Friedrich Hayek Chair in Economics and Economic History at the American Institute for Economic Research. Read more here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 97, Jerry & Utah treasurer Marlo Oaks discuss the historical & political state of Europe’s anti-fossil fuel mandates, how ESG mandates on American companies hurt American employees, and a powerful legal strategy by which the Trump administration can push back against European regulators. Also, why it’s premature to take ‘victory laps’ against ESG & DEI. Read Treasurer Oaks’ op-ed for RCP here: https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2025/02/27/collusion_coercion_and_the_eus_corporate_sustainability_directives_1094273.htmlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Why are companies like Apple struggling to combat the spread of child porn in their networks? In Ep. 97, Isaac Willour (Bowyer Research) sits down with Richard Pursey, founder of cyber security company SafeToNet, to discuss why companies are often unwilling (not unable) to prevent child exploitation, the importance of the private sector in fighting human trafficking and abuse, and Richard's innovative new technology HarmBlock that's changing the game when it comes to keeping kids safe online. Learn more about Richard & Sharon's company here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 95, Jerry sits down with Trevor Lewis, an economic analyst who previously worked at the Buckeye Institute, to discuss how anti-fossil fuel policies, from nitrogen fertilizer to net-zero emissions requirements, inevitably hurt the agriculture sector and in turn American consumers. Jerry & Trevor also discuss the details of sow housing practices, the economics of oat milk pricing, and the practical realities of feeding 9 billion people. Read Lewis’ report, published with the Buckeye Institute, here: https://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/library/docLib/2024-02-07-Net-Zero-Climate-Control-Policies-Will-Fail-the-Farm-policy-report.pdfSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 94, Bowyer Research’s Isaac Willour sits down with Dustin DeVito, director of corporate research at the 1792 Exchange, to discuss the Human Rights Campaign, one of the most notorious organizations pushing corporate bias on companies. Also discussed, the HRC’s Corporate Equality Index, a major pressure point for companies stepping back towards politically neutrality. Follow Dustin & the 1792 Exchange on X: @DustinDeVito @1792ExchangeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Few citizens understand how much the toxic alphabet soup of political ideologies such as ESG, DEI and CRT has burst out of academia into government and even financial markets. The first line of defense against this has been the states, particularly the formerly somewhat mundane offices such as Treasurer, Auditor General, Comptroller, Commissioner of Revenue, CFO. Woke politics in investing was a major theme in North Carolina's Treasurer election this year, and the people resoundingly chose Brad Briner to go into office and continue the task initiated by his predecessor Dale Folwell of cleaning ESG and DEI out of consideration in investment decisions. In Ep. 93, Briner joined Jerry on this episode to talk about that battle as well as the battle for federalism, to stop the federal government from forcing N.C. to finance sex change treatments in its already overloaded state health care program. Briner also talks about going into office to reduce its power and the business case against green energy mandates. Briner makes the case against the intrusion of both left wing and right wing politics into finance.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 92, Bowyer Research analyst Isaac Willour sits down with filmmaker, producer, and activist Robby Starbuck. We discuss Robby's latest victory at Walmart, the fate of discriminatory DEI programs in the next 4 years of Republican governance, and what the future holds for getting corporate America out of politics and back to business.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The most respected class of elected officials in America hold titles such as Treasurer, Auditor General, Comptroller, or Commissioner of Revenue. These are financial watchdogs with their eyes on the details. Worker bees. On the other hand, Congress often polls as one of the least trusted political institutions. One reason? By and large, states balance their budgets and Congress… well, doesn’t. That's why we spoke with Indiana Comptroller Elise Nieshalla in Ep. 91, who chairs the National Debt Crisis Task Force for the prestigious State Financial Officers Foundation. This group sent a letter (National-Debt-Letter.pdf) to Congress urging its members to deal immediately with exploding debt levels which could potentially trigger a debt crisis and, in its wake, a geopolitical crisis created by American decline.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

With 45 billion dollars under advisement, Innovest is one of the largest commercial Christian financial consultants in the marketplace. In Ep. 90, CEO and co-founder Rich Todd joined Jerry to talk about the evils of ESG, the way that Christians' money has been weaponized against them, and why it is imperative to have aligned companies helping Christian institutions with their portfolio construction. Financial consultants are different from financial advisors and asset managers in that financial consultants tend to work with ultra-high-net-worth individuals and with institutions. Their function is not generally to manage money but rather to work in the institutional space to help large investors decide who should manage their money. Todd talks about the powerful pressure towards the left and towards secularism in the finance industry. and how ESG & DEI have been the levers used to apply that pressure. Christians, including large Christian institutions, have naively entrusted their values decisions and their voices to people who despise everything they stand for. Todd also emphasizes that faith-alignment does not have to come at the cost of professional excellence or market returns.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 89, Dean Andrew Abela, of the Busch School of Business at Catholic University of America, talks with Jerry about his new book, Superhabits. Abela describes the difference between ESG/DEI and other forms of virtue signaling which are forms of pseudo-morality. Abela also explains why he used the language of a self-help book to communicate ancient truths about virtue. instead of using older language. Abela goes on to describe ways in which his book and the corresponding app could be used not just for personal development. but also on an enterprise-wide scale to help businesses create a corporate culture rich in Superhabits. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 88, Dr. OJ Oleka, new CEO of the State Financial Officers Foundation, sits down with Jerry to discuss the next phase of the battle for free markets, the role state fiduciaries play in protecting retirees and taxpayers, the need for a meritocracy, and how to go on offense against entrenched ESG/DEI interests.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The folks from the Life:Powered initiative at the Texas Public Policy Foundation leveraged public disclosure rules to find out how state pension plans are voting at the annual meetings of the companies they own shares in. The results were pretty shocking. From 2019 to 2023, many red states, some with politicians who have publicly attacked ESG investing, are voting to the left of BlackRock. In Ep. 87, Brent Bennett, policy director of Life:Powered, joined Jerry to talk about this important new research, and why states which don't want to continue to vote with their shares for ESG ideology and "energy discrimination" don't need to any longer. Here's the report, see if your state is on it and if it is, send it to your legislator, Treasurer and state Auditor. How State Pensions Unwittingly Push ESG Goals Through Proxy Votes | Life:Powered (lifepowered.org)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Ep. 86, Dale Folwell, the outgoing (in both senses of the word) Treasurer of North Carolina talked to Jerry about his case before the Supreme Court to overturn a lower court case mandating that the state health plan pay for sexual transition treatments, including millions of dollars worth of surgical procedures. Folwell also talks about the true heroes of Hurricane Helene: the mountain people and local volunteer firefighters which were first at the scene. Finally, Folwell talks about the upcoming N.C. governor's race in which the scandal-ridden Republican candidate, Mark Robinson, is likely facing defeat, pointing out that Republicans need to stop choosing candidates based on who they hate rather than their ability to solve problems. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Treasurer of the state of Louisiana, Dr. John Fleming, joined Jerry to talk about why he opposed approval for Bank of America for a business contract due to the companies debanking of Indigenous Advance, a ministry to Ugandan Orphans and Widows. Treasurer Fleming talks about how the left has been successful in pressuring companies to a politicized and anti-Christian pattern of behavior. Dr. Fleming also talks about the corporate governance battle of the year, the attempt by activists and blue state pensions to attack the board of Exxon. Fleming talks about how to balance the need to do business in the world and the need for large financial entities with the desire not to pay businesses which then turn around and hurt the economy of a state and attack the faith of many of its citizens.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How can Christians build support networks in an arena where employees of faith feel increasingly unwelcome to be religious in the workplace? Mark Whitacre, executive director of Coca-Cola's t-factor initiative, joins Jerry to discuss forming Christian employee resource groups, responding to common objections, and what the future looks like for religious employees.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Former Texas senator Phil Gramm joins Bowyer Research's Isaac Willour on Meeting of Minds for a wide-ranging discussion of AI, defending free market ideals in our current political moment, and the medieval/feudal roots of the modern ESG movement.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Veteran financial journalist Charles Gasparino joins Meeting of Minds to discuss his recent book "Go Woke, Go Broke: The Inside Story of the Radicalization of Corporate America." He and host Jerry Bowyer discuss the extent of corporate politicization, from Disney's corporate strategies to Goldman Sachs meltdowns over Chick-fil-A, as well as the future of combatting ESG activism.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Which companies have been targeted by anti-Israel activists since October 7th? In Ep. 81, Isaac talks with Ron & Vanessa of the Zachor Legal Institute to discuss anti-Israel activism, boycotts, and the intersection between ESG and the BDS movement.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Professor and TED speaker Alex Edmans of the London Business School joins Meeting of Minds for a wide-ranging discussion on confirmation bias, decision making, and how ESG analysis can become tied to biased/black-and-white thinking that renders people and industries dumber.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Walker Wildmon of the American Family Association returns to Meeting of Minds for an in-depth discussion of AFA's forays into corporate engagement, current events, and the future of conservative institution-building.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Why aren't journalists covering the tremendous bias of the pro-ESG movement? Jerry talks with Tom Jones, head of the American Accountability Foundation about the weakness of pro-ESG academic analysis, sneaky ESG malfeasance in Oklahoma, and how the AAF uses FOIA requests to expose the interconnected web of anti-fiduciary activists working behind the scenes in American business.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is ESG at odds with human flourishing? And how do we move beyond it? Our guest, advisor and author Terrence Keeley, served for 12 years as a managing director at BlackRock before leaving to author several ESG-critical books. He joins Bowyer Research analyst Isaac Willour to discuss the failures of ESG, the roots of human flourishing, and the political/financial future of the free enterprise system, guided by the recent AEI book Ending ESG & Restoring the Economic Enlightenment.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mike Sharrow is the head of C12, the most prominent network of Christian CEOs. Sharrow talked with Jerry about how ESG, DEI and SOGI (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity) have taken a small kernel of Christian truth and built a system which creates division and rancor in the workplace. Sharrow uncovers the roots of these toxic ideas in critical theory: an offshoot of Marxism which divides the world into oppressor and oppressed, with no escape from those categories possible. Sharrow also talks about the Holy Spirit is expanding the C12 network internationally in Egypt and increasingly in Brazil, which is undergoing revival and a wave of Christian discipleship in the marketplace. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Paul Tice has 40 years of experience on Wall Street managing money with a focus on the energy sector. He has worked for many of the largest firms in the world, including Blackrock. He now teaches finance at the Stern School at NYU. Tice explains exactly how ESG will tank global financial markets by destroying the energy sector on which all economics depends. He identifies the motive behind these policies driving politicians as the lust for power. He further identifies the motive for business CEOs: cowardice. Tice destroys the allegedly scientific arguments that fossil fuels are causing global warming and exposes the harrowing effects of the policies that are based on such flawed arguments. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Wayne Winegarden, Senior Fellow in Business and Economics at the Pacific Research Institute, explains why the claims of ESG investing advantage turned out to be based on an illusion, which reversed itself when energy companies began to outperform tech stocks. He also points out that ESG when applied as an investment methodology increases fees and decreases returns. Dr. Winegarden warns that a crisis in state pension and health insurance plans is virtually inevitable and how red states are likely going to be forced to bailout blue states. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Alliance Defending Freedom is the leading defender of religious and political speech protection in our nation's legal system. With fifteen Supreme Court victories and over 70 assists since 2011, no other organization has done more in the courts to protect religious freedom. But several years ago, ADF became a victim of cancel culture at Amazon, which kicked the organization out of being eligible for customers to direct gifts on its Smile program. ADF realized that there was another, perhaps even greater, threat to free speech than government – large corporations. In response, they launched a corporate engagement operation, headed by Jeremy Tedesco, and an objective scoring system called the Viewpoint Diversity Score Business Index, www.viewpointdiversity.com. ADF recently released the third annual edition of this index and Jeremy Tedesco joined us to talk about the trends he has seen. While victory is probably far in the future, progress is being made right now, with more companies being covered by the index, more companies participating in the survey and some companies seeing significant improvements. Tedesco also gives helpful advice and an inspiring call to ordinary shareholders to join the fight. Momentum has shifted our way, and Tedesco invites those who are concerned about “woke capitalism” to move from impotent outrage to engagement and influence.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We at Bowyer Research worked with a financial advisor to place a proposal on the annual shareholder meeting ballot of Mastercard. One of the rights that comes with placing such proposals is the right to address the board, CEO, and other shareholders present at the meeting directly and unfiltered.  Usually, the advisors and ministries we work with give this speech themselves, but in this particular case, the advisor delegated it to me. It's only three minutes long. Given the grave moral consequences of Mastercard's actions, I was not my usual, quiet and reserved self. Some issues require a no-holding-back approach.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In a recent op/ed for the Wall Street Journal, Commissioner of Revenue for the State of Alaska Adam Crum made the case that a recent attempt by blue state pensions to intimidate the board into acquiescing to the demands of anti-oil activists is a violation of the fiduciary duty to put retirees' life savings ahead of politics. (Exxon Mobil Takes On Climate Extremists - WSJ). He should know. Commissioner Crum is responsible for the oversight of 138 billion dollars in public assets. And as the Commissioner of Revenue, he sits on the boards both of the state's pension fund and of the state's Permanent Fund, which receives oil and gas royalties and distributes them and investment earnings as dividends to the citizens of Alaska. After all, it was the discovery of oil and gas, without which, Crum argues, Alaska would never have been permitted to become a state. The Alaska model  has also been a tremendous success for indigenous “First Peoples”, with groundbreaking legislation 50 years ago that allowed them to monetize the mineral rights of their land, creating unprecedented prosperity, while at the same time allowing them to their subsistence way of life such as hunting, fishing and whaling. Crum insists on fulfilling his role on the basic principle enshrined in law and long tradition that a trustee must put financial return for beneficiaries as the one and only end of pension management and leaving politics out of it.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

According to Alabama State Auditor Andrew Sorrell, blue state pension plans and the stakeholder capitalism movement have been attempting to intimidate private corporations into imposing policies which have been repeatedly rejected by Americans at the ballot box. Sorrell points out that the demands of anti-energy activists and blue state pension bosses would lead inevitably to an authoritarian shutdown of all oil and gas resources in perpetuity. Particularly ominous is the attempt this week to remove the board of directors of ExxonMobil, the world's largest private oil company, using the states' pension assets, which he wrote about here: State Auditor Andrew Sorrell: Blue state officials play cheap political games ahead of Exxon shareholder meeting (1819news.com). Sorrell offers a serious warning to America about how much our liberties are at stake in this battle to keep politics from invading and weaponizing corporate life.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A group of blue state officials are attempting to use their pension funds to kick out the board of ExxonMobil because the firm has successfully sued to block an attempt by an activist group to place a proposal on the company's ballot that is hostile to the oil and gas industry. In addition, these states are pressuring Blackrock, JPMorgan Chase, and other asset managers to also vote against the Exxon board. In this episode of Meeting of Minds, Louisiana Treasurer John Fleming explains that if this unprecedented act of intimidation were to succeed, how devastating it would be to his home state, America, and the world. The Treasurer tells why he has urged the pension plans of Louisiana not to participate in this blue state corporate coup attempt (Treasurer Fleming condemns plot to take over Exxon (kedm.org)), and why his fellow red state treasurers have urged America's largest asset managers also not to participate (U.S. Republican states support Exxon in shareholder activism dispute | Reuters). He explains that what is truly at stake is the modern economy itself. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The battle between red states and ESG is raging in Oklahoma right now.  The pro-energy Treasurer Todd Russ is suffering massive backlash for attempting to enforce a law which calls upon the state to not do business with asset managers such as Blackrock that boycott or seek to harm the fossil fuel industry. Russ found himself on the receiving end of a lawsuit from a union boss and attacks from numerous directions, including the Republican Attorney General of the state. Jerry talks in this episode with Tom Jones, President of the American Accountability Foundation (American Accountability Foundation), who has used Freedom of Information Requests to demonstrate the secretive and cozy relationship between various public officials who have been attacking Russ and an influential Blackrock lobbyist. AAF uncovers a disturbing pattern of public officials coordinating strategy with a company blacklisted by the state for acting against the interests of the state's energy industry. This interview should be a wake-up call to conservative Oklahomans to see that the swamp isn't just in Washington DC, but everyplace where special interests work against the interests of the people.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.