Podcast appearances and mentions of molly cameron

This week Randall and Craig have a long overdue catch up session about their Fall gravel travel trips. Covering Bentonville, Girona, Boulder, Austin, Reno and SF, between the two a lot of dirt was covered. Episode Sponsor: Hammerhead Karoo 2 Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: In the Dirt [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to in the dirt from the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host, Craig Dalton. I'm going to be joined shortly by my cohost Randall Jacobs. It's been a while since we've been able to catch up on the microphone, as we both been traveling and doing our own things. I've been super busy this last quarter. So it was great to catch up with my buddy Randall. And just dig into what we've both been up to. Before we jump in, I need to thank this week, sponsor the hammer head and the hammer head crew two computer hammer heads been a sponsor throughout the year. So I very much appreciate their support. I can't recall if I've ever mentioned this on the show, but. In my early twenties, I worked for a bicycle computer company called Avocet. And at the time Avocet introduced a product called the vertex. Which provided for the first time an elevation tracking device for bicycle, it was quite game changing, particularly at that time in the world of mountain biking, because it was so difficult to compare one ride to the other. I still to this day, find vertical feet climbed or the vertical feet of a particular course or an event that I'm riding to be the most important fact. That I need to have in my head in terms of preparing. So if you're going out to a race or an event that has 8,000 feet of climbing, I know I need to put in the work across my training schedule. I find myself often thinking back to that, as I enjoy the hammerhead crew too, I really very much enjoy the climber feature as anytime I update a course or even now it's got the maps added in there in real time. I can see when I approach a climb exactly what is ahead of me, how long the climb is going to be in terms of miles. But most importantly, how much elevation am I gaining? It comes into play in a number of different ways. One. I know if it's a longer climb, I need to settle in. I need to climb patiently and just stay within myself or in the case of my recent experience at big sugar, gravel, as I was seeing that these climbs were shorter in nature, I knew exactly sort of how many candles I could burn as I was attacking them. Attacking them being a generous term for any of my performance. In any event I do these days. Anyway, it was super valuable to know what kind of verb was in front of me. And that climber feature is just always been something I've taken to. The other big thing that I really enjoy has been the navigation features. I mean, it is something that the crew too has always offered in spades, above and beyond anything else out there in the marketplace. Based on an Android operating system. It kind of has the same kind of mapping capabilities that you see on your phone. So very visual, very easy to see trails and roads and where they lead to pinch and zoom and everything you'd expect. From a phone you get there right there on the screen. It also has a super cool feature I've mentioned before, which is sort of a find my way home feature. Whereas if you're kind of mucking around and a little bit lost, you can just kind of press this button returned to start, and it's going to navigate you directly to your home or the place where you started the ride. The other thing I just saw pushed to me in a latest software update. Was a choice of preferred terrain. So now layering on top. Oh, Hey, I want a ride home on gravel versus pavement is going to give you different results. So I thought that was super cool. And it's another feature that I've always loved from the team in hammerhead is just the idea that you have software updates. Every two weeks. I feel like I'm getting something pushed to the device. That's adding a new feature and I get an email describing it. And some of them. You know, background, improvements or something that's maybe only applicable if you have a power meter. But other ones super applicable, like this choice of terrain. I always like to be able to tell my computer that if you're routing me somewhere, take me on the dirt because that's what I'm all about. So anyway, as we approach this holiday season, if you're looking for a new cycling GPS computer, I highly recommend checking out hammerhead there@hammerhead.io for gravel ride podcast listeners, they're throwing in a free heart rate, monitor strap. So just make sure to put. Put it in your cart and add the code. The gravel ride to any of your hammerhead purchases for that crew to computer. Without business behind us let's jump right into my conversation with randall Randall. [00:04:28] Craig Dalton: Randall. Good to see you, my friend. [00:04:30] Randall R. Jacobs: Good to see you, Craig. It's been a bit, we've both been traveling. How you been? [00:04:33] Craig Dalton: yeah, I've been, I've been okay. You know, life continues to throw on challenges in front of me and haven't been on the bike as much as I'd like. But happy to be here. Happy to be chatting bikes for a few minutes. [00:04:45] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, yeah. I've been very much looking forward to it. Um, you've been, you were in Jerron for a bit and I think you were in, uh, Bentonville, Arkansas before that. [00:04:53] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I feel like I stacked all my trips into one period of time, which turned out to be more stressful than I would've liked from a family dynamic perspective. It seemed like I was gone all the time, and I think in the weeks proceeding my. Bentonville trip. There was like a local group ride that I had to, like, wanted to prioritize and kind of block off some time away from the family then. And then in between Bentonville and Gerona, there was a couple things that seemed like it was all about Craig. When I, you know, obviously I wanna be a, uh, you know, equal participant in my family life as, as my wife. [00:05:33] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, I can. Uh, I don't have the same family obligations, um, for better or for worse, uh, but can definitely relate to packing all of one's travels all in one go, and having that be, um, while effective, uh, requiring some recovery. I was on the road for three and a half weeks in my case and never stayed in the same place, more in a couple of days. [00:05:53] Craig Dalton: that's a lot. And I wanna hear about the trip cuz I kept seeing it pop up in the ridership like where you were and shouting out locals and, you know, bringing people together. So it, it sounds like it was an exciting trip and I'm super excited to talk about it with you. [00:06:07] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Well let's hear about Bentonville first, cuz that's a place that I've explored a little bit, but really wanna spend some more time in. You're there for what? Big sugar. [00:06:15] Craig Dalton: I was there for big sugar and I was able to go down there. I actually went for the People for Bikes conference, so as, as some people know, I, I do spend some time with a, a non-profit called Bike index. Bike index act org. A little plug for everybody out there. It's a bicycle registry, stolen bike recovery platform. People for Bikes is sort of the biggest non-profit advocacy organization in the industry by my likes, and they put together a conference called Shift and another one in the spring, but Shift was in Bentonville and I saw the opportunity, hey, if I can, if I'm already getting to Bentonville, I should go to that conference on behalf of Bike. It was super fruitful and interesting. Lot of interesting topics. There was, there was a, a big thread around diversity and inclusion, which is an important topic in the cycling industry, and an additional thread about sustainability and climate, which again, important across all industries if we wanna keep doing what we're doing out there in the world. So that was like a really valuable add-on two days to that. [00:07:21] Randall R. Jacobs: I'm kind of curious, um, cuz actually I didn't realize that you had gone to that conference. Uh, I'm curious to hear a little bit more about the, the topics and the angles and and so on in that experience. [00:07:32] Craig Dalton: yeah. I'd probably have to bring up the, uh, the, uh, agenda to kind of give you a full, a couple months out. Now, my brain is a little foggy, but on the sustainability front, it was great. They had a, an expert who had written a book about bringing sustainability into the cycling industry, and I could share that in the show notes and I'll certainly share it with you personally. Um, we went through an exercise of. How would you reinvent your business with a sustainability angle? How do you think about bicycle ownership differently? How do you think about supply chains differently and what are the net effects, both positive and negative to either your price point or your customer relationship? And I, I've thought it was pretty interesting. I. In a group with the bike flights team. So bike flights provides a service to ship bikes from, from one place to another. And they have these cardboard boxes you can use either like one of your own or you can actually buy a box from them, which is ideally reusable, but you, you know, it's only reusable to a certain extent. So we were just sort of riffing. How could you extend the reusability of that? How could you use different materials for that with achieving the same result of getting your, your bike from point A to point B safely without damage? [00:08:54] Randall R. Jacobs: I'd be curious if you, um, I'd be curious to read the report and pull out, you know, one or a couple of the experts potentially to bring on, because it's something that we're thinking about as well. And so, you know, we take the opportunity for, for us to learn, well, at the same time sharing what's going on with, uh, the listenership. [00:09:10] Craig Dalton: That's a great idea. I'll definitely, I can definitely connect you with the author of that book. The other interesting thing we were riffing about, and as we're both wearing our logos caps today, um, we were talking about, I was talking with another wheel manufacturer and we were talking about, okay, you deliver the wheels in a box. What could that box be used for down the line? Like is there anything in the garage that it could be converted to that you have like, you know, sort of Lego style instructions of like, cut your box in this way and all of a sudden you can, you know, have a wheel stand for example. You know, if you can imagine if you cut holes in the box, you might be able to like drop the wheels in and that would be a cool way to display your extra set of. [00:09:52] Randall R. Jacobs: You know, um, that's actually brilliant in that, um, this will, we'll talk about this in a moment, but we're in the process of, uh, building out our dealer network, our, our shop network. Uh, that was the, the pur the main purpose of this recent trip. And one of the things I kept coming up was like, how do I display this in a really attractive way in my shop? And so that would be a really great development exercise where it's like the box that it comes in gets, you know, has some perforations and. You know, you cut it and you fold it and all of a sudden it is this really interesting display stand with a story. I like that a lot. I'm [00:10:24] Craig Dalton: Good. I look forward to seeing that. So that was super interesting. You know, I always, whenever I, you know, I do, I've done business development in my career for, for ages and conferences are sort of the bane of my existence cuz you have to go to them and you think you're gonna meet so and so, but you never necessarily do. But it's important to show up because you do make these random connections. [00:10:47] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, [00:10:48] Craig Dalton: Always yield value. So I feel like a couple of those were. [00:10:53] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, it's the thing that I, I, uh, one of the things I mourn most about Covid is, um, you know, I'm one of these people who loves going to trade shows. So like I used to go, you know, I still go to Seattle O every year, haven't been to Asia in years. Uh, some folks who are listening will know that I lived in Asia a number of years, uh, mostly in China, um, and a Mandarin speaker and like was doing some, uh, you know, sourcing and product development work for various companies, both in and outta bike. And it's, it's a big part of me. And, and those relationships are not just great professional relationships where interesting ideas emerge out of, but also, you know, people I really. People whose families I know, um, and people I've stayed with. Uh, and so yeah, that's, that's something that, um, I'm really looking forward to in 2023 is attending more of those, uh, conferences and trade events and things like that. [00:11:45] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely, I mean, it's so critical. I think when you've sort of broken bread with someone and then do business with 'em, you're just so much more likely to be successful in that relationship. [00:11:56] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, you start to understand people at a different level when say, you know, you're with the owner of this very large factory and you're trying to understand each other, and you do so over a cheap bowl of noodles at his favorite noodle shop down the street from the factory. And that's, and you know, or you, you know, you have. Uh, dinner with him and his wife and, and kids or her and her, you know, family or what have you, uh, which is the sort of thing that used to happen all the time. Uh, pre covid and hopefully Taiwan is open. Um, and so Taipei will be, uh, in person this year. It looks like in March. China is still closed, uh, effectively, unless you want to quarantine and risk being stuck there for, [00:12:35] Craig Dalton: Yeah, but, but showing some signs. I was just listening to an economist this morning showing some signs of easing their zero covid policy, which is interesting. [00:12:46] Randall R. Jacobs: It's interesting and, uh, there's a whole, if we wanna get into, uh, geopolitics and so on, there's a whole conversation we could have there about, um, how that, that might go. They have a huge unvaccinated elderly population, so that's a, a huge concern. And they've largely, uh, uh, rejected, you know, more effective Western developed vaccines in [00:13:08] Craig Dalton: Yeah. That's the [00:13:08] Randall R. Jacobs: less effective homegrown ones and they haven't deployed them. And, and so, Yeah. And, and there's reasons for that. That is, is, uh, again, a whole conversation on geopolitics we don't need to dive into. Um, [00:13:20] Craig Dalton: indeed. The final thing I'll mention about people for bikes is that they did reveal some statistics around sort of the bike industry and some of the things we already knew about. The sort of ebb and flow of supply chain constraints and how early on in the pandemic there was a lot of people flooding to cycling. Then some of the supply chain finally caught up and, and then there became a little bit of a glut of bicycles in some categories out there in the market. Then now combined with a softening of demand, the sort of supply and demand curves look really funny over the years, and they're sort of, [00:13:56] Randall R. Jacobs: Hm. [00:13:57] Craig Dalton: In synchronous, um, out of synchronicity. And I think we'll continue to be that way. Cause now with an impending recession potentially, it's just, it's gonna be interesting to see where supply meets demand in this coming period. [00:14:12] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. And we also are in the low of the season because, you know, when people talk about the bike industry, um, oftentimes they're talking about the upper end, you know, and, and when I say upper end, I mean anything that's not a department store bike. So like, you know, anything you'd buy at a bike shop, so like a bike that's, you know, has a minimum level of spec, at least maybe $400 and above. Um, and you know, the, there's, there's a cycle for that. And most of those, that level of bike is, is in the northern hemisphere. And so as the winter approach is like, demand always goes down anyways, so the question is what will it look like in April when you know the next season is kicking in? [00:14:53] Craig Dalton: yeah, yeah, exactly. So super fascinating stuff. [00:14:57] Randall R. Jacobs: you mentioned, uh, about diversity as well [00:15:00] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't, I, you know, you and I were talking offline like how difficult it is to find safe women who work in the industry to interview for the podcast. At times, I was saying like it's easy to find women athletes, which is great to see, but often I think there's just, it's just been such a male dominated industry. So there's certainly discussion around gender inclusion, but more of kind of race and ethnicity inclusion. We had the founder of Legion Bicycle, Justin Williams, just talking about, um, you know, just showing younger athletes, younger black athletes, that there was a world where they're included in the space in, you know, he's got an interesting vision around, you know, rebuilding city based criter racing and creating a league and providing ownership. To the writers, which I think is fascinating. There's a lot of stuff going on. It just, you know, it's always depressing how long these initiatives take to really show some impact. [00:16:05] Randall R. Jacobs: It does take a long time to get a critical mass of people who say, you know, look like me, whatever, you know, whatever your me looks like. Uh, so, so yeah. That makes sense. And, um, for anyone listening, hearing us talk about how it can be difficult to find, you know, uh, women or minority, uh, well, uh, Yeah, people of color, um, to represent, uh, the industry, to bring on the pod. If you have ideas, please reach out and let us know. You can let us know when the ridership in the, um, the Gravel Ride podcast, uh, channel, um, or drop us an email. Um, there's an email set up for the pod I call. [00:16:43] Craig Dalton: There's not, there might have been [00:16:45] Randall R. Jacobs: Okay. Well anyways, [00:16:47] Craig Dalton: you know where to find us. [00:16:48] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. You know how to find us, find Craig or I, um, cuz always looking for, uh, people to have interesting conversations with and we definitely have a few in the queue. Um, alright, so Bentonville and then, uh, how about the event itself? [00:16:59] Craig Dalton: Yeah. So great event. I mean, I really enjoyed it, not my, it was the terrain. I did the little sugar event at Big Sugar. Big Sugar Gravel is the final of the Lifetime Grand Prix series for the year, but it's also been running, I think. This might have been the third year this thing actually went off. Anyway, Bentonville, great community, embraces cycling in a big way, very kind of undulating, so a lot of short, punchy climbs, which isn't necessarily what I'm trained for. If you can call what I am trained for anything. But the terrain was, I mean, it was loose and rocky. I had my, my rock shock equipped titanium bike with 700 by 40 fives on. I felt super confident and it showed anytime it went downhill on the course. I was rifling by people. You know, I also have a dropper post. I was looking, you know, people were looking incredibly nervous as I was just absolutely flying by them, and I was talking to a friend after the fact and I mentioned like, I felt like I was racing, which felt good. I like, honestly, I haven't felt like I was racing. In a long time, and it wasn't intentional. I didn't go in with a lot of fitness, but by happenstance it was a, a road, a road rollout. We were on pavement. there was, uh, Molly Cameron, who's a transgender athlete. Friend of mine, was out in sort of the front of the pack and there was a few quick step pros from Europe over there and I was just kind of curious to kind of be around them. And I wanted to say hi to Molly. So I am fairly comfortable riding in packs and I got to the front and I front ish, I would say like top 20% of of riders. And I started to realize that I knew there was a heavy, heavy choke. Not like eight miles in where it had to go. You had to, everybody had to go down to sort of almost a single track, and it was a gully that was gonna give people some trepidation. And so I found myself in the top 20% there, and I can only imagine the carnage that happened behind me [00:19:04] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. [00:19:06] Craig Dalton: Randall, I finished 40th or something out of 400. and I rode, I rode hard to my ability. I was fortunate. It was super windy. I was fortunate that like I, I was always riding with at least one other person and occasionally we'd balloon up to, you know, 10 people or whatever. But I was riding hard over every hill. I certainly was riding the descent, hard to catch back on when I was getting dropped, but I just wasn't getting past five people and it started to dawn on me that, so, Some carnage happened back there because no one was catching me this entire day. [00:19:42] Randall R. Jacobs: That's, um, I've actually used the course profiles like that to my advantage in my racing days. It's like, okay, here's a course that starts on a big climb and at the top of the climb goes into a tight single track when no one can pass. I'm gonna be at the top of the climb first, and then I'm gonna, hopefully someone behind me is a lousy technical rider. [00:19:58] Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's almost the only thing that mattered, [00:20:00] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good for you. Nonetheless, it's takes something to, to be in the, in the front for that long anyways, so Bravo. [00:20:08] Craig Dalton: so it was, it was fun. Like I, I just like, I felt good about myself on the bike and it was, granted, it was the shorter course or whatever, but it was fun and it just sort of reminded me that, you know, getting out there and having sort of just the encouragement of event day to go a little harder, go a little deeper is just something I enjoy. [00:20:27] Randall R. Jacobs: It's a very different experience, like psychologically going, being in an event or even being, uh, you know, as I experienced in, in Boulder in particular on a, on a spirited group ride and just having to hold on right Knowing like, oh, not, it's not only. That you want to finish the overall event, um, in a good time and, and be towards the front, but if you get dropped, you're gonna be out in the wind on your own. And so you're just like holding onto that wheel, uh, for dear life, knowing that as hard as that is, it's gonna be that much worse. The moment a gap, uh, opens up and you're just doing half the speed on your own. [00:21:02] Craig Dalton: a hundred percent. It, that went through my mind constantly in, in Bentonville. I was just like, I, it doesn't matter. Bury yourself, because if you fall off this wheel, you're, it's gonna be, you know, you're gonna be out here a lot longer. [00:21:17] Randall R. Jacobs: Um, [00:21:18] Craig Dalton: I love it. I love it. So, you know, in some, I know we got, we have a short amount of time and, and ground to cover, but I, I really liked Beville. I really liked the big sugar gravel event. I, I definitely recommend it if you're a mountain biker. There's so much terrain down there to ride. Um, one, one real just funny anecdote to talk about, like Bentonville as a cycling community, I was staying at a hotel a couple miles, kind of away from down. And as I was riding back, and this happened two or three times, I would come to a crosswalk on a bike path and there'd be a car in the way. Not doing anything malicious, just kind of peeking out, trying to make their turn, and the car would back up. And I, I was just like shocked. Like of the, of the courtesy towards bicyclists. [00:22:02] Randall R. Jacobs: did they honk at you? Did they throw anything? [00:22:05] Craig Dalton: There is no gestures. Maybe even just like a friendly gesture, like, oh, I'm sorry, I was in your. [00:22:10] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, it's, um, I've visited, uh, Bentonville. I've, uh, some friends, uh, who moved down that way in part for, in, in no small part for the reason that you're siting there. The infrastructure there is incredible is, um, a lot of Walton money, so a lot of Walmart money. Cause that's their headquarters that's gone into, I mean, some of the, like, I've seen bridges that go over, you know, small little gaps that, you know, you could just ride down, ride up the other side and like these ornates, you know, rot, iron bridges that are done, you know, by a local artist, you know, um, real architecture in there. And, uh, yeah, this is just a, a lot of investment in that scene and it shows and it's pretty cool that, you know, you're starting to see some big events down. Did you bump into, uh, Benini Per chance or, [00:22:58] Craig Dalton: Um, no, I, no, I didn't. I think I might've saw him down there, but I didn't speak to him. I ran it to a bunch of other journalists along the way [00:23:07] Randall R. Jacobs: okay. Uh, I, I saw him in, uh, in Boulder. He has his, the ride with, uh, Ben Delaney YouTube channel. So I know that he had done a video from there. So curious if you cross paths. Um, [00:23:20] Craig Dalton: And then not a few weeks later, I found myself finally going to J in Spain. [00:23:25] Randall R. Jacobs: Tell me about it. That's a, that's a place that keeps coming up in conversation. [00:23:29] Craig Dalton: yeah, I mean, gosh, it was two years in the making. I've been talking to Trek Travel about joining their Jer Gravel bike tour, uh, five day trip outta Jer. Um, finally, you know, due to covid delays, it finally happened. I had a couple buddies from the Bay Area join me. We were a group of six. We had two great guides, Mickey and Rafa. Mickey was a local, so he kind of knew all the little goat paths and different ways. In fact, you know, we were given, we were able to use Trek bicycles for the entire trip, and we had a GPS from Garmin that had all the roots on it. But oftentimes when we were going outta town, if Mickey was leading us, he would just take us through the little goat path at the little trails, which were a heck of a lot of fun. Gerona appears to have gravel in every direct. And a lot of different style gravels. You know, they set us up on these trek demos with a 35 C tire, so, you know, very small tire and very kind of road plessy setup from compared to what, what you and I normally ride. But the bikes were, were very capable and a ton of fun for the type of gravel we were experiencing. We did a few rides out to the Mediterranean coast, which was amazing, but then got into some technical stuff and what I, what I really enjoyed about the trip was that there was a little bit of everything. It was clear the way they designed the days that they could sort of test people's appetite and their metal and their experience for, you know, the days that would come as they did get progressively more technical. [00:25:03] Randall R. Jacobs: Hmm. I would imagine it's challenging if you, like, if they have a more eclectic group of people who don't know each other and you know, you, you really, I wonder if they do some, uh, pre-screening before they put. People on a ride together to make sure that the abilities are, are roughly equal because when they vary widely, uh, you end up, you know, going at the pace of whomever the slowest rider is, which is fine for a certain type of riding. Uh, [00:25:28] Craig Dalton: Yeah, no, I, I did acknowledge that and I spoke to the guides a little bit about that, and we did feel fortunate that although we did have some varying ability levels in the group, um, a couple of the riders decided to stop at lunch one day and get in the van or opted to do tourist things one day and not actually ride. So it did feel very much like the pace was dictated by myself and my, my close friends. More than anything else, which was nice. Um, you know, I think on one day we had a guide all to ourselves, so it was just like ripping around Spain and doing, doing what we do. And they, they were very gracious about like, if we didn't have enough riding in any given day, we just, we would just go out and ride more and our, our guide would give us an additional route. So I think on two occasions, we, we set out in the afternoon after coming back from our, you know, our group. [00:26:19] Randall R. Jacobs: So am I right in saying that the terrain was like a lot of hard pack, relatively smooth given the the equipment that you were on? [00:26:28] Craig Dalton: Yeah. So yes, in that there's a lot of kind of rails to trails activity, like long stretches of, of, of former rail lines that are now just basically smooth bike paths that just go from, from miles and miles, but then some, some fairly chunky. Gravel climbs, um, and some fairly technical loose descents. Honestly, like I, I felt like it was maybe a bit more challenging than I would've thought would've been designed, but they always had out outs for people, I think, you know, if you didn't, if you didn't wanna do a certain section or feeling a little bit too beat up. So I was pleasantly surprised. I think I did an episode about it, just kind of with my contemporaneous thoughts that I recorded well in Jer. You know, on, on, uh, I think it was day three or four, like it was very similar to riding Tam, like we were on some steep descents. I was, I was wishing for my dropper post cuz it was getting a little bit, a little bit loose. Granted, like with the 35 C tires, maybe if I was on my bigger tire bike, it would've been like, I would've experienced it differently, but still, like, I felt reasonably challenged and satisfied. [00:27:38] Randall R. Jacobs: Sounds outstanding and, um, I you would, I think it was you who sent me the picture of you and Russ from Pathless Pedaled. [00:27:47] Craig Dalton: So how random is this? So I'm, I'm out, we're sort of halfway through, I think day four. We had just done a climb that is apparently is George Hank's favorite climb on the road after traversing to it on the dirt. And then we did this big dirt road climb and I was feeling spicy and I, I wanted to , I jokingly said to my friend if, if Rafa, our guide's responsibility, To stay with the lead rider. I'm gonna make it really hard for him today. And I was just on a day, like I was feeling strong and so I attacked on the climb, attacked, you know, but I just felt good and was pushing the pace and I decided since I had the gps, I was just gonna keep going. So I'm like 45 minutes to the top of this climb and I see a couple riding by me. And you know, Russ is, Russ often rides in flannel. He's got a, uh, you [00:28:39] Randall R. Jacobs: fishing shirts. [00:28:41] Craig Dalton: Yeah, and he's got a, you know, he is got that, uh, bike bag a certain way. Like he's got a visual aesthetic to him that if you've seen him ride you, you know, you kind of recognize it, recognize him, and it, I was like, God, I know that guy, but he went by and I'm like, well, I'm pretty sure that was Russ Pathos. Pedaled. But I didn't, didn't, wasn't able to connect with him. And then the. Was it the next day, I, I, I pass him in the town of Jerron when we're both riding different directions and I yell, pathless Pedaled and I sort of see him acknowledge, but like, we cannot stop, like, we're just not in a position to, and so I'm like, I've confirmed it's him. And then later on that afternoon, I actually run into him and Laura and was able to chat and grab a picture with him. And he, he, they've been over there a month as j as a base. [00:29:33] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Oh, so cool. Yeah, I got a, um, I got an email from him one day just with a picture of him at Tata Bikes, which is a, a really cool shop in Gerona. Um, they're, they're built in. Did you visit their shop, their facility? I [00:29:47] Craig Dalton: I didn't visit that shop. [00:29:48] Randall R. Jacobs: It's built in out of an old building, so it's like this beautiful stone, uh, building right in the heart of things. Um, and, you know, they happen to have a fleet of our bikes for rentals and so Russ had a picture of himself with our, with our bikes at ta, uh, which I thought was, was pretty sweet. Um, [00:30:04] Craig Dalton: I love it. I love it. Yeah. So much, such a great cycle in community when we visited the new Castelli community store there and uh, we happened upon them when they were bringing together a night ride and we were all kicking ourselves for not having lights cuz it looked like it was gonna be a heck of a lot of fun. There's probably like 30 riders there and I have a snippet on the last episode with my conversation with Oscar, who's the manager there and really cool and lots of different local brands there. And it's, you know, It's fun to like go to a restaurant and then have bike hooks for you and those little details that happen when you're in a, you know, a cycling first community. [00:30:43] Randall R. Jacobs: That, that sounds outstanding. I really need to make it out there before too long [00:30:47] Craig Dalton: Yeah, highly recommend Jer. Hopefully I can get back at some point, but I know we're pressed for time and I, I definitely wanna hear about your trip. [00:30:55] Randall R. Jacobs: Sure. So, uh, three and a half weeks on the road, uh, started in Boston where I'm now based and was in Austin, Texas, Denver and Boulder, then in Reno and then, uh, stopped in Sacramento and route to the Bay Area, uh, against, seldom staying in the place for same place for more than a couple of days. Um, And it was a, a mix of, uh, visiting bike shops. So we're in the process of building a network of shops for logos and, uh, eventually for thesis, which by the way, uh, anyone who's interested in our wheels, who wants to buy them from a local shop, drop us a note. And, uh, with your local shop and. Um, the wheels you want, and we'll reach out and we'll get that taken care of for you. Uh, so really focusing on, um, you know, collaboration with, with these shops that are so, you know, critical to supporting the right experience. Uh, [00:31:45] Craig Dalton: just for, uh, so I know we've talked about the wheel set, on the wheel sets on the podcast before, but just for as a refresher, what sizes and styles do you have available? [00:31:55] Randall R. Jacobs: So 6 50, 700, 2 9, and we'll be introducing some more in each of those sizes coming up. And then we have, uh, you know, various end cap solutions, free hubs and so on for people who have different drive trains. Uh, and we have a very particular philosophy, which if you're interested, we did do, uh, you and I an episode on what makes a great wheel set, uh, where we go, uh, deep into the weeds there. Uh, you can find that a few episodes back. [00:32:19] Craig Dalton: Nice. [00:32:20] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Um, so that was, uh, that was wonderful, just like getting to one, get a sense of the landscape once again. And two, you know, really sitting down with, uh, small business owners and understanding like, you know, what's their experience, how do they get into this, uh, what is the nature of their business? And seeing all the different ways in which people serve, um, their particular part of the cycling community, uh, and [00:32:44] Craig Dalton: How did you, uh, [00:32:45] Randall R. Jacobs: and. [00:32:46] Craig Dalton: how did you decide where you were going and what shops to visit? Was it led by the shops you wanted to visit or the locations you wanted to, to have a presence? [00:32:54] Randall R. Jacobs: Uh, a mix of both. So Austin was somewhat opportunistic. I had a couple of friends who just had their second kiddo, and so I wanted to, to play with the toddler and, and hold the, the, the newborn while they were both on leave. Uh, and then, you know, visited, uh, a co-founder on another project while there. And then was in Denver and Boulder. That was, um, again, got a bunch of friends in that area. Haven't been there since the pandemics, uh, or at least haven't spent a good amount of time there since the pandemic. Um, and a lot of the cycling media is centered in Boulder. So meeting with a, a bunch of, you know, industry people in journalists. Yeah. [00:33:31] Craig Dalton: you, uh, were you driving the Prius? [00:33:34] Randall R. Jacobs: No, no, I, I flew this time. I'm . I don't really care. I've done the cross country drive eight times now, um, between my racing days and then when I was, you know, moving out to the west coast and when I moved back this way. And, uh, yeah, I could see doing it again at some point maybe, you know, with a, with a partner some years down the road when, you know, you do van life for a few months. But yeah. Um, rent [00:34:01] Craig Dalton: Were you, uh, [00:34:02] Randall R. Jacobs: needed. [00:34:03] Craig Dalton: were you traveling with, with three wheel sets? [00:34:05] Randall R. Jacobs: Just the one, I have, the six 50 s with a, a byway semi slick in the rear and a, a venture, um, file tread up front. And that was my everything wheel set, which worked out well though, I'll say that in the Denver Boulder area, um, the. So I, I joined, uh, several group rides out there. People are fast, people are super fast, and the terrain, uh, that, that the group rides are on is generally pretty tame. So, you know, uh, mixer road, hard packed dirt roads, uh, even the single track is not overly technical. Um, I did hit a little bit of a, uh, technical single track, uh, with actually Ben I just mentioned. Uh, him and I rode together while I was out there and, but, um, Yeah, I was definitely, uh, was riding with some people on, you know, full on road bikes and could have used that little bit of extra edge as it was. I, I did the aides because, uh, I have the pride of a former racer, I suppose, uh, but was definitely just holding on for dear life, a good chunk of the time. [00:35:08] Craig Dalton: right. Nice. [00:35:11] Randall R. Jacobs: yeah. [00:35:12] Craig Dalton: fun. Should we bring, you brought your bike along with you? As well. [00:35:15] Randall R. Jacobs: So brought the bike along, group rides, visiting with friends, rolling into shops, talking, talking with shop, uh, uh, team members and owners and so on. Um, some really cool shops, uh, that I got to visit. In that area. And then Reno was visiting friends. Um, again, few shops out that way, but uh, in terms of activities, trail running and so on, in the mountains outside of there, uh, and did some hiking in, in Tahoe, which is stunning, um, at all times of year. But I'd never been in winter. Uh, there was already quite a bit of snow that we were hiking on, in, in spikes. Uh, and then the Bay Area, which was, I was all over the bay. [00:35:53] Craig Dalton: Yeah. So bummed to miss that you being out here. It [00:35:56] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, well, I'll, I'll be out this way. I'll be out your way again before too, too long at the latest, uh, sea Otter and, uh, probably the highlight of that trip, uh, was put on like a, just, just put out there, uh, a ridership sf, um, ride meet up and probably had 25 or so people show. And it was great. A lot of people who, uh, I haven't, haven't met before, a few friends, a few people I've known for a while. Um, and then some people I've interacted with over email and so on, uh, or seen in the ridership. And, uh, everyone was stoked to be there and it was really neat to see. Um, We did the headlands and then out to Tennessee Valley. So revisiting these areas that I used to ride twice a week, you know, when I was developing the OB one, those were the, the, uh, the, uh, the test loop. Uh, and then just. When everyone was out for pizza, uh, afterwards, just seeing people really connecting and exchanging numbers and taking photos and all that. And it was just such a great vibe. And, um, I remember when you and I used to do such things, uh, host rides together and so let's definitely make it a point to do that. Next time I'm out your way. [00:37:05] Craig Dalton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like, I mean, gosh, I can't believe it's December and looking back at the lack of group rides I tried to put together this year, cause I really do enjoy it and such, like I said, it's not, it's not about the riding, it's just about the people I. [00:37:20] Randall R. Jacobs: We also, um, we used the, so we're still kind of playing around with this, uh, mighty Networks tool, um, for like a a 2.0 version of the ridership that's not in Slack. And so like organizing the events in there actually made things a lot easier. So when the time comes, kind of you market it however you wanna market it, and then, uh, just create the actual event and link to. In the ridership.org. And if anyone else is looking to either organize group rides or manage their clubs, we have a couple of clubs that are managing their teams, uh, within the ridership.org. Uh, if you have any questions on it, just drop us a note in the current ridership, but, um, that, that actually proved really effective. [00:38:00] Craig Dalton: Were you able to do like messaging to the people who had registered for the [00:38:04] Randall R. Jacobs: You can do messaging. Uh, people who are registered can also put in comments and so on. Um, and for coordination, uh, you can, you know, if you send an update, everyone can get emailed. Uh, you can have all the, the ride details in the, uh, invite as well. You see who has signed up. Uh, and you can share with people who are outside of the network though to, to rsvp. You just have to create a. Everything is free. It's really straightforward. So, uh, yeah, it was, it was a useful tool, um, [00:38:32] Craig Dalton: I'm, I'm glad you're able to go through that. I know like, you know, we've, we've certainly put in many hours in developing that prototype over there and glad to see you using it and getting that real world kind of experience of like, is this tool beneficial to the community? [00:38:48] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, it's the sort of thing where I think the events are the most obvious application where anyone can start using it immediately. And, um, and again, for, for club membership of which events is a, a, a, you know, a critical component, uh, it's great for that. And again, free, just get your people in there. Um, if you're, if you're a club manager, then uh, reach out, we'll create a separate space. It's almost like having. Like your own private Facebook. If Facebook didn't have like algorithmic feed and like was, wasn't extracting all your data and would just leave you the hell alone. Um, and without all the, the advertising and fluff and everything else, it's literally just like your own defined space where you can. You know, coordinate communications amongst your teams and, and manage events. You could even have your membership in there, uh, if you want membership dues and so on. The platform supports that. Uh, so it's a really neat platform and each club can have its own either club or if you're an event organizer, um, you can have your own space within the broader ridership that is, you know, it can be private or public. Uh, it's pretty cool. So just gotta invest some more time in it. Now that we've got logos launched and I have a little bit more bandwidth, [00:40:01] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I know the vision's always been to just create a, a, a safe community place for people who love bikes and, you know, have a devoid of distractions, like you're coming there just to enjoy bikes in the community. [00:40:15] Randall R. Jacobs: yep. [00:40:15] Craig Dalton: No one's gonna advertise to you. No one's gonna try to draw you away. It's not meant to be a time sink. I mean, one of our core shared value is, is that we want people to get outside. We're not, we've never looked to kind of create a community to keep people in front of their computers. We wanna, [00:40:32] Randall R. Jacobs: Quite, [00:40:32] Craig Dalton: you're in front of your computer Yeah, exactly. We want this to be inspirational. To get outside. [00:40:37] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah. It's a, a vehicle for connection, you know, as, as with all things we try to do. Um, the, the last thing I'll share is I visited Enduro Barings. Visited their, [00:40:47] Craig Dalton: Oh, their facility. [00:40:48] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. And, um, it's not their ma they, they have, um, other manufacturing facilities, um, but got to tour the warehouse and see the testing that they're doing, um, on their bearings and comparison testing and so on. And, uh, it was a really great experience, uh, was with Matt Harvey, who I had on the pod before. If you haven't heard that episode. Um, a lot of deep nerdy on, on, uh, Barings and then Rick Sutton, who you've spoken to before as a representative. Um, uh, HBAR coefficient cycling. Um, I think I'm gonna bring on again to talk about his founding of Sea Oder. Uh, and he's also with, uh, you know, helping Enduro with marketing, but got to go really, really that much deeper in the weeds on, um, how bearings or designed and the materials and the testing regimens and all this other stuff. Uh, and it just made me that much more impressed with their XD 15. It's the only bearing that they've tested and I, I looked at the tests and it's a, it's a robust protocol. The only bearing they've tested that gets better as you use it. Pretty much every bear, every bearing, degrades and, and generally degrades, um, somewhat quickly and it gets better over [00:42:00] Craig Dalton: it's. It's so fascinating when you, when you meet these individuals who are so focused on their specific craft, their specific part of the industry, and you realize like a generalist could never produce a product as good as this person who was obsessed over this thing for their entire [00:42:18] Randall R. Jacobs: Uh, yeah. Well, and even, even if you, even then you could be obsessed your entire career, but in, you know, in their case, um, you know, getting access to that alloy, they're buying this in like solid bar stock and machining away like 97, 90 8% of it to make these races out of this XD 15 steel, which is the, the designation of the particular alloy. And you know, it's, uh, it's really cool stuff and worth it, frankly. Like I have, I now have an XD 15 bottom bracket in my bike, and that'll probably be the last bottom bracket I ever own. [00:42:52] Craig Dalton: The last one you [00:42:53] Randall R. Jacobs: to other bikes. Yeah. [00:42:55] Craig Dalton: So, so cool. So cool. [00:42:58] Randall R. Jacobs: So [00:42:59] Craig Dalton: Amazing to catch up. I wish we had more time today, but we'll do this again soon. [00:43:03] Randall R. Jacobs: Sounds good. [00:43:05] Craig Dalton: Cheers. [00:43:06] Randall R. Jacobs: Be well. [00:43:07] Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this week's edition of in the dirt, from the gravel ride podcast. I appreciate you spending a little bit of your December with us this year. Big, thanks to hammerhead and the crew too, for sponsoring this episode . And be sure to use the code, the gravel ride for that free heart rate monitor strap. When you order your new crew to computer. If you're interested in connecting with myself or Randall, please join us in the ridership. That's www.theridership.com. It's a free global cycling community. We'd lot of great conversations going on every day. If you're interested in supporting the podcast, you can visit buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride. All your support is greatly appreciated. And if you have a moment, ratings and reviews are hugely appreciated. Until next time. Here's to finding some dirt onto your wheels.  

Advocacy work is not free. It's okay to ask for the money you deserve for the work you are doing in the DEI space. This week Molly talks to the other Molly in the cycling sphere, Molly Cameron. Molly is a passionate cyclist, photographer, and trans rights activist. Working in the advocacy sphere since the 90s, Molly shares the emotional toll this work has had on her and how she manages to juggle so many things. From how she got into advocacy, to how her goals have changed, Molly gives us the rundown on her life in business. @themollycameron *** Support the Podcast *** InsideTracker: Get 20% off at insidetracker.com/feisty Apres Delight: Use code PERFORMANCE for 20% off at apresdelight.com Fuelin: Use code FEISTY for 20% off your first month of an Autopilot or Copilot program Register for the Outspoken Summit November 11-13th at https://www.womensperformance.com/outspoken (https://www.womensperformance.com/outspoken)  Mentioned in this episode: Inside Tracker - September 2022

Advocacy work is not free. It's okay to ask for the money you deserve for the work you are doing in the DEI space. This week Molly talks to the other Molly in the cycling sphere, Molly Cameron. Molly is a passionate cyclist, photographer, and trans rights activist. Working in the advocacy sphere since the 90s, Molly shares the emotional toll this work has had on her and how she manages to juggle so many things. From how she got into advocacy, to how her goals have changed, Molly gives us the rundown on her life in business. @themollycameronSign up to Receive The Feist Newsletter:https://www.womensperformance.com/the-feist Follow us on Instagram:@feisty_womens_performance Feisty Media Website:https://livefeisty.com/ https://www.womensperformance.com/ Support our Partners:MOTTIV: Get two months of full premium access with the code FEISTY at mymottiv.com PILLAR Performance: Use the code SARA for 15% off your first purchase at thefeed.com/PILLAR. If you are outside the US use the same code, SARA at pillarperformance.shop.

This week's Trans Sporter Room with Karleigh Webb features two mavericks who set their own mark. Skateboarder Leo Baker: Art Above All. Heading into 2020, Leo Baker was one of the top skateboarders in the world. A 6-time X Games medalist, Baker was selected to the 2020 U.S. Olympic Team for Tokyo. That was before the COVID crisis hit and postponed the games. But a few weeks before, Baker made a different decision. For years, they had pushed up the ranks of the sport from the sidewalks and sky parks to the biggest stages while also dealing with a lot of dysphoria and questioning. In February 2020, Baker decided the being themselves was greater than gold. They came out as transmasculine and non-binary, left Team USA and began pursuing their life. That story is now the subject of a documentary called Stay On Board: The Leo Baker Story. Baker beams up to talk about his path, the decision, and why skateboarding in the wild is greater than skating in grandest stage in sport. Cyclist Molly Cameron: Riot Grrls, Gravel and Gravitas Molly Cameron has been riding and racing since the late 90s. Before that she was a musician bashing through the punk/riot grrl scene of the era. It was also the era that she found herself as she also found the love for being on a bicycle and being fast on the road, on the gravel or in a cyclocross of many type of terrain. She was competing as a transgender woman in the days prior to the Stockholm Statement, the "tipping point", and long before the tenuous turmoil is the present day. Her travels through sport are a tale of doing whatever in love with and respect for their sport. In her 40s, she continues to race but has also found a place to speak out for inclusion in her sport and among her industry. In 2021, with a major world championship coming to a place in the USA that has passed one of the over 200 pieces of anti-trans, anti-lgbtq legislation that has cut-and-pasted across the political landscape, Cameron has been a leader in getting the cycling industry to get up to speed as an activist and used competition as a mean to support and build space beyond the "cycling as a toy specifically for the white and well-to-do. That push lead to the formation of Respect Inclusion Diversity and Equality (RIDE), an organization Cameron help found as a educational sounding board about gears manufacturers, bike manufacturers and those who ride. Also this week: A special anniversary at the intersection of sport and inclusion in an MMA cage. History was made September 10, 2021, but why is Alana McLaughlin still stuck at a record 1-0-0 and why this plays into the anti-trans emboldened to get more riled up to push the hysteria up and force lgbtq to folks down. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There's no denying that trans and LGBTQ people, especially athletes, have been under serious attack recently. With hundreds of anti-LGBTQ bills being filed each year in the United States, it is an extremely exhausting time to be a part of the queer community. This week on the show, Kathryn and Kristi welcome THE Molly Cameron. Molly is a long-time cyclocross racer, Portland local, and was the first trans-athlete to compete in the UCI Cyclo-cross World Cup. Molly shares her experience of being a trans woman within the cycling sphere, and her journey to where she is today as a pro athlete. Follow Molly on Instagram @themollycameron https://www.ridegroup.org/ (RIDEGROUP.ORG) *Support the Girls Gone Gravel Podcast* InsideTracker: get 20% off at http://insidetracker.com/feisty (insidetracker.com/feisty) Support all https://livefeisty.com/partners/ (Live Feisty Partners) This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podsights - https://podsights.com/privacy Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

For over two decades, Molly Cameron has been advocating for LGBTQ+ rights within cycling. In her career as a racer, she was banned early on from racing in the women's category, and was forced to race with the men. In 2015, she was briefly banned from racing in the men's cyclocross national championship when the rules were changed to require a person's gender to correlate with the gender on their driver's license. In this interview, she talks with Payson about being thrown into the spotlight after the outdoor community's reckoning with social justice issues in 2020 and 2021, after decades of advocating in relative anonymity. She talks about why she continues to fight for trans rights after so many years, what brings her hope, and how she plans to focus her mission in the coming years through her organization, Riders Inspiring Diversity and Equality (RIDE). She and Payson also talk about the controversy surrounding USA Cycling's decision not to remove anti-trans protestors as Cyclocross Nationals last month, and why the conversation surrounding trans women in sport cannot be limited to scientific data points.Link to International Olympic Committee guidelines on transgender athletes: https://olympics.com/ioc/documents/athletes/ioc-framework-on-fairness-inclusion-and-non-discrimination-on-the-basis-of-gender-identity-and-sex-variations

Molly Cameron is a veteran bike racer who has also run a women's team, put on bike races, and owned and operated a bike shop. Cameron has been out as a transgender woman for two decades, and has raced at a high level in both the men's and women's fields. The UCI cyclocross pro recently won the Wafer edition of Belgian Waffle Ride Kansas — beating VeloNews Podcast host Ben Delaney and Scott Moninger — and enjoyed the 6.5-mile cyclocross course that was inserted into the end of that race. On this episode, Cameron and Delaney talk about some of her recent race experiences, her interactions with other racers and officials at events, and her work with the RIDE group she founded as an LGBTQIA+ advocate. Delaney also checks in with Dan Hughes, four-time winner of Unbound Gravel and owner of Sunflower Outdoor & Bike, which hosted BWR Kansas and Deceuninck-Quick-Step's Remco Evenepoel and Mattia Cattaneo over the Halloween weekend. Hughes has advised Specialized on the development of its cyclocross and gravel bikes over the years.

Welcome to the relaunch of the BikePortland Podcast. In our first episode since 2016 (!), BikePortland editor and publisher Jonathan Maus talks with Molly Cameron, the Portland-based professional cycling team manager and newly-minted transgender rights advocate who just founded https://www.ridegroup.org/ (RIDE), (Riders Inspiring Diversity & Equality). In this wide-ranging interview, Molly shares her views on anti-transgender legislation sweeping the US and how the cycling industry should respond to it. She also shares her personal story of being discriminated against when she first arrived in Portland, how she balances community expectations, and the deep sense of duty she feels to help transgender people and other marginalized groups. Support this podcast

This week we sit down with UNBOUND 200 winner Ian Boswell. We get to unpack his big win, but also dig into a new partnership between Wahoo and The Migration Gravel Race / Team Amani in Kenya. Wahoo  Migration Gravel Race Team Amani Breakfast with Boz Podcast Support the Podcast Automated Transcription, please excuse any typos:   Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, I'm excited, very excited to welcome Ian Boswell to the show. [00:00:12]We scheduled this interview many months before Unbound, knowing that Ian was participating. But certainly not expecting that he was going to end up with the top spot on the podium.  [00:00:22]This episode also kicks off a new relationship for the podcast and Wahoo.  I've been a longterm Wahoo customer on the computer side. Having first started with the ELEMNT BOLT and now using the ELEMNT ROAM. I've also been a big fan of the Wahoo frontiers series on the web. I love the videos and getting access to these writers, having adventures and just the stories behind it so when i connected with the team at Wahoo and learned about some of the initiatives they have going this year i was super super stoked to bring them on board as a sponsor. [00:00:56]On the podcast, we'll get the opportunity to talk to some of these Wahoo athletes and get a little bit of the behind the scenes. Look. At some of the adventures they'll be having this year [00:01:05]I'm very much looking forward to these conversations and I hope you will be too. For those of you who don't know Ian Boswell, Ian had a career in the world tour riding for teams like Sky and Katyusha before retiring and moving on to a full-time role with Wahoo as an employee. [00:01:25]Additionally, he set his sights on participating in the gravel racing scene. I don't know about you but i recall that time the beginning of 2020, just questioning where ian would fit into the roster of these pro tour athletes who were moving into gravel and what the impact might be on the sport. [00:01:44]We all had to wait quite a bit longer than we expected to find out what that impact was going to be. So when the 2021 season finally kicked off, And Unbound was on the calendar. It was inevitably going to be thrilling to see where Ian was going to fit in. And to see him win. The biggest race on the calendar this year was quite exciting because it really couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.   [00:02:08]We get to dig into a little bit of as experience at the Unbound 200 this year. But equally important, we get to dig into a new initiative from Wahoo [00:02:18] In conjunction with the Migration Gravel Race in Kenya, East Africa. I won't get into too many details in this introduction, because I want you to hear from Ian. And with that, let's dive right in to this week's episode.  [00:02:31] [00:02:31]Ian.  Welcome to the show [00:02:33] Ian Boswell: [00:02:33] thank you for having me. [00:02:35] Craig Dalton: [00:02:35] It's funny. I cannot believe that your win at Unbound is going to be the second, most exciting thing that we're going to talk about today. [00:02:41]Ian Boswell: [00:02:41] Yeah, it's yeah, it's been a very fortunate couple of weeks I've had and more fortunate for what's coming up. [00:02:48]Yeah, excited to chat about, Unbound, but more importantly, the next couple of weeks of of travel and racing and cultural experience. Yeah, absolutely. [00:02:56] Craig Dalton: [00:02:56] Yeah. So let's get into your victory at Unbound. What was your mindset going into Unbound? Obviously, when you retired from the pro tour and expected last year was going to be your first year as a quote unquote gravel athlete. [00:03:10] It didn't go as planned and you had to wait a long time to get to a start line. Let's talk about what your mindset was going into Unbound. I know you had one an event, the rule of three under your belt previously, but Unbound being the sort of world series or Superbowl of gravel is really a next level experience. [00:03:29] Ian Boswell: [00:03:29] Yeah.  In hindsight, in all honesty, it probably benefited me that I didn't race last year, cause I had just come off of, seven years in the world tour and I don't know, 10 years prior to that, racing road bikes, and trying to climb this ladder to the top of the sport on the roadside. [00:03:45] And, I retired and was very much, still felt like a racer. I took a position at Wahoo, so I just had less time to ride and move back full-time to Vermont where the weather is not the south of France, where I was living for the previous seven years. So there was very much this constant underlying level of not stress or anxiety, but just oh, I'm not doing what I used to do. [00:04:06]And it was very much a transitional year where, I was still had this mindset and this, feeling, whether it was, internal or psychological of  I'm not training the way I used to. And lo and behold no race has happened. So I spent the first ever, I guess probably is the longest I had spent in one place since I was 14 or 15 years old. [00:04:25]Just riding in Vermont and my mindset over the last, I guess throughout 2020 really shifted a lot to very much alright, I'm at a very different chapter in my life now I'm not a professional world tour, a road cyclist. There are things in my life that are, far more. [00:04:42] No, I don't say important, but I just, I became interested in so many other aspects of my life. Things I've always longed to do, garden and, we got chickens and we got a puppy and I joined the volunteer fire department. That's actually where I am right now with the volunteer fire department. [00:04:55] Cause we have terrible internet at our house. So I got involved in all these other kind of aspects to my life and, Which kind of led to, the return to racing this year. And I was very much of the perspective of is I'm looking forward to races happening again, but if there's another year of kind of pandemic and no events, great, I get to spend another year at home and riding and, maybe going for some KOMS here and there and doing some, some small group rides. [00:05:17]So my mental state. Long answer here, but my mental state going into Unbound was very much have that mindset. Hey, this is an awesome opportunity to be here, but I'm no longer, a athlete or an individual who's putting my sole focus and soul and time and energy into performance at the highest level, which. In all honesty is probably a great way to approach a 200 mile race because, you can burn a lot of nervous energy early on in a race that is going to take 10 hours and you can finish three or four hours in and just feel like I am mentally fried. And, I very much had a fun and enjoyable. Race just because I was so happy to be there. I'm so curious about. [00:05:59]   I think that's the other thing is there is a culture and the etiquette to gravel events that I'm still very much learning, so I'm much more. An observer than I am a kind of a leader or, someone like Strickland is very much a, a patrol of the Peloton, he knows what's going on and people respect him. [00:06:16] And, there were countless people that I met, the day before, or even at the start line. And, they had no idea who I was and like, that's great. I'm happy that no one knows who I am, but where I've come from, because they're not gonna look at me to take a big pole or control the Peloton or attack. [00:06:29]Which was great, but I don't think that's going to be the case in events going forward. [00:06:33] Craig Dalton: [00:06:33] I think you're right. I think you might be a mark man at this point. Those are really interesting comments. And I really appreciate what you're saying about mindset and I can't help, but ponder, if some of the other sort of. [00:06:45] Quote, unquote, big name athletes that showed up at that event. Might've had more of a race mindset. And when the terrain, when the course, when the other competitors dictated something unexpected, they really didn't have the mindset to thrive that you've clearly acquired in your time and run up to the event. [00:07:06] Ian Boswell: [00:07:06] Yeah, definitely.  And it was the first event, I was there almost a week in advance to do some other stuff with specialized and with Wahoo and, it was the first time really since probably the tour de France in 2018, that felt that not nervous energy, but just There was a lot happening, and it was, and I think for a lot of people, whether it was myself or, someone like Amity Rockwell who had won before, it was the first time in a year for most people that there was this, just journalists and interviews and, people wanting to take picture of your bikes and ask you questions about your equipment and all these little things But yeah,  I just, I didn't have to answer too many questions in detail because I was just in very, in a very simple way. [00:07:44] I was almost naive to the event.  I had Pete stepped in as mechanic lend me a pump on the start line because I didn't pump up my tires in the morning which is brings it all back down to earth. It's rather than being worried about my start position or, the first 10 miles, I was like, oh cool. [00:07:58] Like I should probably pump up my tires right now because tire pressure I guess, is awfully important and gravel. And I had pumped off the night before, but I just didn't have a pump in the morning to put air in them. So I was like, cool. This is a nice distraction to put air in my tires at the start line. [00:08:12] And it's also, there's I had other missions on the start line as well. I had 10 of the trans pride. Sweat bands with me as well. And so I was trying to find, some people who I knew wanted one and some people who I thought, would appreciate receiving those. [00:08:26]I had other kind of things on my mind at the start, which, brings it back full circle to thinking about the bigger. Topics around the event rather than just the race and being worried about my performance and my kind of expectations internally. That's great. [00:08:40]Craig Dalton: [00:08:40] And I just want to pass along just a personal note on that front, a close personal friend of mine been in the bike industry for a long time, reached out to me and just, he knew I was interviewing you today and yeah. Acknowledged how important that was to him and his family that you made that gesture and having listened to your interview with Molly Cameron on the breakfast with boss podcast, it just came full circle. [00:09:03] And I think it was, it's little gestures like that, that show your character and the type of things you believe in and are willing to put forward in your life. [00:09:12] Ian Boswell: [00:09:12] Yeah I appreciate that and very much wasn't a PR stunt or something I was doing to get attention, cause if I had finished even second or third or hundreds, no one cares, just by nature of winning people pay attention to it, it has become something that I'm more aware of and, back to this whole mentality over the last, 12 months in pandemic and just reflecting on my life up to this point and realizing, how incredibly fortunate I have been and, realizing that so many people haven't had that same life experience that I have, and just been more aware of, different people from marginalized communities or backgrounds or upbringings and realizing that, There's a lot of people who are suffering a lot in this world and are fighting for something far more important than a victory at a gravel race. [00:09:55] And, just to be able to shed a little bit of light on, on those topics and those, movements and groups, it really does bring me a lot of. It makes me feel so good just to receive messages from people and, hear their stories. And it opened up this whole dialogue of conversation, which is so amazing that, such a simple gesture and, really my response to most of these people, it's it's literally the least I can do. [00:10:14]I spent a hundred dollars on wristbands and passed them out. It's that's nothing, but. It's created this, just dialogue and really awareness, which I think, for me, it was the first step in just, learning more of it's just awareness. And I think that's really, can make the industry and just the world and, so many people more informed and more connected and more understanding just to. [00:10:34] To be aware of these different, points in our society and our culture and our world. I think if we can just open our eyes a little bit and be a bit more aware, then it's going to be a better place for all of us. Yeah. [00:10:44]Craig Dalton: [00:10:44] It's so true. It's the cycling industry, the world, it seems to move so slowly towards these things. [00:10:50] And I think it is these baby steps that are critically important. [00:10:55] Ian Boswell: [00:10:55] Yeah. And it really is, and having spoken with Molly, I, realized that more. That, Molly's in this for the long run, this isn't something where we're going to wake up tomorrow and there's going to be radical, change and reform. [00:11:06] But if there is a critical mass, and I think, for individuals like myself who have come from a very privileged background can just be aware that people have had very different life experiences. And to be understanding to that, that, we can. Move in the direction of change and it, it really does just start with that with conversations and with, knowledge, that's such a powerful tool that we have in our quiver. [00:11:28] Craig Dalton: [00:11:28] Yeah, absolutely. And I'll put our link to your breakfast with BAAs episodes, because I think it's important for everybody to listen to that one while you're at the start line, how different was it to line up with another thousand athletes at the same time, that's gotta be one of the largest races you've ever started. [00:11:45] Ian Boswell: [00:11:45] Definitely. Yeah.  Most you think most world tour races are races. I had done as a junior, under 23, most maybe you have 200 riders. Yeah, it's it was crazy, thankfully I was able to be near the front just to, squirm through the first few turns, but, with, and I had a friend who had done the event a couple of years ago and he said, man, just make sure you look back at some point. [00:12:02] And we'd had a couple, L turns early on and, because you're in these relatively flat open Plains, looking back with the sunrise and just seeing as far as you could see. A group of riders. That is cool. And that was like the first time I think, in the event that I really realized what a special  day it was going to be. [00:12:21] And you're not just for performance and trying to win, but just how many people decided to, travel to employ Kansas, to take part in this event. And, I really didn't understand what it was and what it meant until I looked back early on and just saw this, Stretching Peloton as far as the eye could see. [00:12:38] And that was yeah, it was cool. Definitely it was nice being, being near the front cause you just have less chaos to happen in front of you. But very quickly from there, it turned from, alright, this is beautiful and gorgeous to okay, like the pace is picking up and I should probably keep my eyes on the road in front of me and make sure I'm in somewhat of a reasonable position to make sure I'm just stay out of trouble. [00:12:58] Craig Dalton: [00:12:58] What did those first 50 miles look like? I imagine that at that point, there's still a lot of jockeying for position and whether you're a pro or a talented amateur athlete, there's still a lot of people around you. How did it start to break up? [00:13:12] Ian Boswell: [00:13:12] Yeah.  To be honest, and I know multiple writers have said that the beginning was fairly sketchy and I think there were a few crashes and punctures and whatnot. [00:13:19]I didn't find the first, I think 26 miles was the first unmaintained section. Up until that point, I felt relative, surprising. I felt actually really comfortable in the Peloton. I hadn't done a big race like that and I did the rule of three, but that started on a hill and broke up instantly. [00:13:34]But because it's flat, it stayed together really up until that first section. And because it has gravel roads and the surfaces are different, the Peloton is just naturally more, there's more space within the group. And, having raised in the world to where we have, someone's hip on your handlebars and someone else's handlebars on your hip, I was like, wow, there's actually a lot of space in, in the bunch to move around and, a lot mutual respect that all change when we did hit the first section at mile 26, because then people start seeing red and that's when the race picked up and people start taking these risks and forgetting the fact that they have a hundred and. [00:14:07] 75 miles to go, but it's that was kinda where the race first started to split up and people started flatting and puncturing and crashing and, having mechanicals my, again, even up until that point, my mindset was still very much just find a safe spot in the Peloton. [00:14:21] You're not gonna, You're going to be much better off making it through here safely with your wheels and tires and intact than you are, on the front of the bunch, taking, taking risks that you know, could potentially in your race. So that was very much my strategy. [00:14:35]Did I didn't really discover until we got to that point, but just having not done it, I didn't really know what to expect and what the Peloton was going to be like. But yeah, I found myself pretty far back compared to the other contenders early on, but just knowing it was such a long event and there's no, teamwork or team dynamics I was happy to just surf the surf, the wave for the first, I guess probably 30, 35 miles. [00:14:57] Yeah. [00:14:57]Craig Dalton: [00:14:57] And then 35 miles to 65 miles, did separations begin to occur? And did you find yourself having to hop and bridge up to different groups? [00:15:06] Ian Boswell: [00:15:06] Yeah.  Separations happened a lot quicker than I had thought just through crashes and the level of rider is big at a race like that. [00:15:12]You think you have someone like, Quinn Simmons or Mateo Jorgensen who, he just came off the Jiro one of, the, probably the hardest races in the year up to this point, regardless of the surface. And then, you have people who, have been training five, 10 hours a week at, in the same Peloton. [00:15:27] So it broke up fairly. Quickly. And it wasn't really until, probably around nine 40, when we, the group got down to maybe 30 riders and, just kept becoming, it's funny to say it's a race of attrition in a very much is, but the fact that 40 miles and you're already starting to see this, people sir come to the conditions was a little bit puzzling. [00:15:48]But again, I think a lot of that just has to do with the expenditure of nervous energy and, people over exerting themselves. I don't wanna say unnecessarily, pushing harder than they need to make these splits. But yeah, we rolled into the first aid station at mile 68. [00:16:02]With probably only 15 riders. And I thought it was going to be much bigger than that. I thought it was going to be a group of a hundred people and it was going to be chaos rolling in there because there were so many writers, but yeah, a relatively small group after, just 60, some odd miles. [00:16:17] Craig Dalton: [00:16:17] Yeah. I imagine at that point, the incentive to work together was pretty strong for the remaining riders. [00:16:22]Ian Boswell: [00:16:22] Surprisingly not definitely. Yeah. I was really surprised with that. And, we had, there are people who are definitely rolling through and, hats off to people like Ted and Pete and Colin, those, those individuals were always up there rolling through, like they never drifted to the back. [00:16:38] They never, Didn't pull even, Robin carpenter was there and there was some writers who understood like, Hey, we have a really good thing going here. Let's keep it rolling. And even myself personally, I realized that, just with my physiology, it's much easier to roll through at a steady pace than it is to like, try and drift off the back and then, catch up with five guys and then drift off and then catch up. [00:16:56]And that was an incentive, not too long after the aid station, when Colin Strickland came up to me and said, Hey, it looks like he's a lot of people are really hurting in this group. And I was like, just happy to be in the front group of 15, almost, over a third through the race. [00:17:11] And I was like, all right, man, let's hit it. So I went hard up a little roller and I can't remember if I jumped across to Robin carpenter or if I did a little surgeon, he came with me, that very quickly whittled it down to eight riders. And once we had those 8, 8, 8 of us up front That's when it became more, more cohesive. [00:17:30] And then again, after little Egypt, when, Pete really, shredded the race through little Egypt, and that was when the selection of the five of us went away. And that's when the, the front group of us, stetting on myself, Ted Lawrence and Strickland, that's when it became this. [00:17:46] Incredible group of very committed and very, cohesive group of riders just rolling through. And that was, still over a hundred miles to go, I think still 110 miles to go. We, was just five of us. And that was really cool to see that, we got to the point where you had made these separations and it was just a group of people who are willing to ride and just keep rolling through also knowing that there was a lot of headwind coming back towards Emporia. [00:18:11] [00:18:11] Craig Dalton: [00:18:11] And it sounded like from the accounts that, and what you just said, you guys were willing to work together. I'm curious, at what point does it come into your mind to do something, to make an attack in that scenario? [00:18:24]Ian Boswell: [00:18:24] That was one of my biggest questions. And I did a ride with Ted and I asked him, on the ride, I was just like, how? [00:18:29]And it felt so evenly matched and because there was a headwind. That kind of nullified anyone trying to go for a long range of attack like   Strickland did in 2019, just because, it's a pretty, it was a pretty smart group, tactically of riders, knowing that, okay, if if Colin attacks and the remaining four of us had any sort of intelligence, we'd be like, all right, let's just stay together, let him do his thing. And we'll just keep rolling steady. And there's so much wind that he's going to be, he's going to be brought back. So the wind did play a huge factor. I think in how the race was tactically being played out. And, once we got closer to aid station 2 there's a series of kind of pretty big rollers and some steep sections on a, an unmaintained road. And, Pete kind of hit it there as well. And, it became very apparent that everyone was very equally matched. And because the wind, if you're not going to get it, if you're roll over the top and you have a. [00:19:21] Three four second gap and you look back and there's four, four guys behind you. You might just consider like, all right, I don't have a big enough gap to keep pushing on. So I'll wait for the guys behind me. We also had a group of people who have done a lot of road race, and,  you think myself, Laurens, Ted and Pete had all come from the world tour. [00:19:38] And I think with Colin's experience of crit racing and red hook, he's very tactically savvy and really understands the benefit of drafting and wind dynamics. So yeah, I was definitely one of the questions in my mind was how is this gonna break up? Because everyone is so equally matched and the wind is such a big factor. [00:19:54]I thought there was a reasonable chance that, maybe we'll all roll into back onto the pavement and Emporia with five of us. Wow. [00:20:02] Craig Dalton: [00:20:02] And what ultimately happened to create the separation that left you alone with Lauren's ten Dams? [00:20:08] Ian Boswell: [00:20:08] Yeah. So with it's about 30 miles, maybe 25, 30 miles to go. [00:20:11] We hit the last kind of unmaintained section of road, which I had actually written with Laurens the prior Wednesday. And so I upped the pace there, knowing it was a crucial section and also it wasn't incredibly technical, there was times when, like there was one path that was definitely the best path to take. And if you didn't, if you weren't on that route, then you know, it was either Rocky or you might be riding to a puddle. And that's when Pete hit it pretty hard over the top of me. And then Laurens went over the top of him and we'd all strung out. [00:20:37] And, I looked back at one point I saw that Strickland was distanced. I think we, between the rest of us, Ted was probably the, probably one of the better sprinters out of, Us kind of three climber, former climbers. So we knew it was like, okay, the races on here, if we can, every time you lose one rider, it's your odds increase of winning you go from five to four and. [00:20:57] Then Pete had a mechanical. I think he somehow, I don't know if he was trying to go down to a small ring or up to his big ring, but he had some chain suck and, had to jump off his bike to adjust that at which point, I went around him and caught up to Lawrence and Ted was just behind us and wound up catching on just after the last unmaintained section ended. [00:21:15]At which point I was like, wow, we're going to like the three of us. We'll probably roll to the line. If we continue working at At a good pace because it's less, Colin comes back to Pete, and that's still, two chasing three is harder, even though, Colin can definitely roll quickly on the flats and downhills. [00:21:29]But yeah we just kept rolling for not too long. And then we hit a small climb and I think Ted just hit the wall, he made a big effort to bridge across to Lawrence and I and so he got popped maybe around 20 to 23 miles to go. And at which point it was just Lawrence and I still felt good and he felt. [00:21:45]He felt well. And we just realized that this is our chance, and if we can keep pushing the pace, the most likely the writers behind aren't going to be able to come back together and, bridge across if we keep riding. But at that point you're also catching riders in the 100 mile ride. [00:21:59] So it does become a little bit more confusing, especially when you're looking back, trying to decide, is that Pete and the red Jersey, or is that, someone we had just passed in the a hundred mile event and because you're. Nearly 10 hours into an event, you don't really remember what color jerseys of the people you passed are. [00:22:16]So we just knew we could had to put our heads down and keep riding. And, another factor is we also, neither of us had aerobars in our bike which I think mentally for both of us was. Really cool to be upfront. And Laurens made a comment to me, probably 10 miles to go where he, yeah, he said, yeah, I won't use the word here, but anyways, yeah, he was happy that we weren't that both of us on aerobars and, knowing that we knew we had to work even more efficiently together because the people behind did have aerobars and, they probably are faster and, they did have a slight advantage, especially on the, the flat more. [00:22:49]Smooth roads. Yeah, but thankfully we still had enough. Both of us had enough kind of reserves in the tank to keep pushing it all the way back into town. Now in that [00:22:58] Craig Dalton: [00:22:58] situation, obviously both of you understand the tactics you've been in the world tour. You understand how races are won. Do you have to speak about what needs to be done or is it just so innate in both of you that you knew where you were going to work together as far as you needed to go to keep the chasers off? [00:23:16]Ian Boswell: [00:23:16] I don't know. I don't know. Laurens has history with races and winning. Road races with someone else. But I had never really been in that situation, maybe as a junior, when I was 14 years old I knew we had to work. And, at that point I think we both realized being first or second in this event is a huge result. [00:23:30] And so many things can go wrong in that race. The fact that we had made it that far, neither of us having any. Any major issues. I do know that Lawrence had a small puncture early on, but was able to make it back, before mile 25 or something. So the fact that, we knew that regardless of the outcome, we were both ecstatic that we were still there and we were off the front and we were gonna come into more than likely come into town together. [00:23:54]Other than having a catastrophic meltdown or a puncture in the last few miles Yeah. W we did speak about it. We talked about I think I said to him, and he said to me like, Hey, let's just, let's roll into town and we'll sprint it out. Which is then, that's when you're ultimately going to get caught, you have the opportunity to finishing first or second. [00:24:09] And then you decide to start, cat and mouse in it and attacking each other and stopping and attacking and stopping. And before you know it, Pete's back with you and Ted's back with you and maybe Colin's on. And then you wind up finishing fifth when you could have almost had a guarantee first or second, and then you wind up, being the worst sprinter out of the five riders and, finishing in fifth place. [00:24:27] So we were both aware that, it was. Most beneficial to us to keep rolling through just knowing that neither of us were, an excellent sprinter, had it been someone with a better sprint, Ted or, maybe even Colin that's when I think the tactics get a bit more complicated because you may want to. [00:24:43]If you're calling, you may be like, Hey, I don't need, there's two of us. I'm probably going to beat you in the sprint anyways. And I'll beat the riders behind me in the sprint. So I don't need to work here. I'm going to save my effort for the sprint. But I think sprint is very much an unknown strength of both Laurens and I. [00:24:57] So I think we are both willing to go to the line and just see what happened once we got there. [00:25:01] Craig Dalton: [00:25:01] Yeah. What a great result for both of you. I think it's fantastic. [00:25:06] Ian Boswell: [00:25:06] Yeah. I think we're both pleased. And I think of the five riders up front, I don't think either of us really meant or knew what it meant to win that race. [00:25:13] And I knew that Lawrence had won the gravel Locos a couple of weeks prior. So he probably had a little taste of kind of the thirst and the, interest in gravel cycling and. Globally, but really here in north America. I had no idea what it meant. I knew it was a big event and I'd seen the attention that Colin had drawn in 2019, but even without, I didn't realize the weight that is put on the shoulders of, the individual who wins, whether it's the a hundred mile event or the 200 or XL, male and female, there's an incredible amount of attention put on. [00:25:44] That event and an importance, not just from media, everyone who is involved with, your support team and partners and sponsors, everyone is so happy to see those results and to be part of that, really that team of, people who, get behind it from, The week out and get together and make sure that everything's ready to roll. [00:26:04] Craig Dalton: [00:26:04] And particularly in this moment in time, as we hopefully put the pandemic in the rear view mirror here in the U S and eventually around the world, just to have an event of that scale happen and have the community just have that collective release of energy. I think it was just super exciting. [00:26:20] Ian Boswell: [00:26:20] Yeah, it was, and that was one thing, I was a little bit curious about was, the energy around the event compared to last, prior years. And I, I had thought about that a lot in 2020 was, oh man, did I miss this kind of golden window of gravel? When you know, it is fun and there's this party like atmosphere and, post pandemic. [00:26:37] Is it going to be a completely different world? Is there going to be no samples anymore at, at the expo booth because it's, not COVID safe. It is cool to see that, a lot of the excitement and buzz and party and just community atmosphere, didn't really change all that much in an eye. [00:26:54] I heard from a few people that the expo is slightly smaller and there are a few people, in downtown Emporia at the finish, but, compared to, what I had expected, it was a lot more and there was a lot more excitement and energy around the event then, I had feared would not be there due to the pandemic. [00:27:08] Yeah, [00:27:09]Craig Dalton: [00:27:09] I'm glad you got the full experience. That's amazing. So it's really funny to me that we scheduled this interview way in advance of your race at Unbound. We knew it was happening, but you had mentioned, it was a total unknown, so it was great to get that overview, but I'm equally excited to jump into your day job  with Wahoo and a partnership with the Migration Gravel Race in Kenya. [00:27:34] Can you give us a little bit of an overview of what that race is and what this partnership is all about. [00:27:40] Ian Boswell: [00:27:40] Yeah a couple of colleagues brought it to me probably back in, in January. It's, Hey, there's this, there's this event happening in Kenya and we're going to partner with this, this African cycling team called the Amani foundation. [00:27:52] And I was like, cool. When is it? And it's mid, late June and. The same time as an event that was happening in Oregon, the Oregon trail race, which is, the race, really, if there was a hometown race. And that's where I grew up was in bend. And I was like, sure, Kenya sounds awesome, but it's probably not likely that we're going to go. [00:28:07] This was still in, January when it still very much looked like things were closed down and shot and travel, wasn't going to be possible. I put my hand up, I was like, I've never been to Kenya and it sounds like an awesome, an awesome trip, but it has evolved into so much more than just. [00:28:22] A bike race, get some context. Wahoo  has partnered with the Amani foundation, which is, like I said, an African cycling team and really just trying to provide opportunities, resources, and, the chance for these African riders to travel and also show themselves on a global stage. [00:28:36]We've been providing them with the products they need, whether it's head units, heart rate monitors, trainers which is, a huge resource, but I think the most beneficial thing, and which I think is probably the coolest thing that we've been able to provide is, access to having them work with the Wahoo sports science center out in Boulder, Colorado and work with a coach like Neil Henderson who also coaches, Rohan Dennis, who's getting ready to go to the Olympic games in Tokyo. And when you look at the. Just the difference in culture from, Western Europe or north America to Africa, there's some phenomenally talented. Athletes globally. You look at, in cycling the growth of, grand tour contenders coming out of south America. [00:29:15]It's because someone went there and invested in those athletes and gave them the opportunities and the resources to show what they're capable of doing. And I think it's very much a similar situation in East Africa. When you look at Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, There are athletes that are performing at the highest level in the world when it comes to, marathon running or athletics, but there's not a whole lot of athletes who make the transition to cycling. [00:29:40] And a lot of that it's, it is a barrier of entry, both financially, but you think logistically as well, there is all this equipment and, the. The tradition of, training in cycling is so much different than running, running is becoming a more complicated sport, but it's grassroots. [00:29:56] It's very simply, and you can have a pair of shoes and you can go run, but cycling, there's the equipment and there's power meters, and there's, SU so many kinds of obstacles to jump through which is. Making this trip, all the more valuable, the fact that, having had one Unbound and having Laurens Ten Dam   finished, second, we're both attending this race and we both were, gonna attend it prior to Unbound, but to go and actually race with these athletes and, hopefully, we do well, but I think it's even cooler, just. [00:30:25] To have the opportunity to give these African riders an opportunity to show what they're capable of. If I look at, my story of coming up through the ranks here in north America, it's really defined by excelling at these very few opportunities that you had to go against the big riders, whether that's national championships or, jumping into a pro on two race. [00:30:45] And they just happened to be a world tour rider there and you performed well. And then all of a sudden, everyone noticed you. And when you think about, these riders who are currently racing in Africa, they're very much racing in a bubble where, there may be one or two riders who are winning every race and they might be doing, these amazing power numbers. [00:31:00] And they might be, Tactically and technically, perfect, but no one knows what they're capable of because they're not racing against, somewhat more recognizable names. So by, heading over to this race and having Lawrence go and, some other, prominent figures in the cycling and gravel community, it's giving these athletes really the opportunity of a lifetime to show what they're capable of, which is, all that really someone needs to really changed their entire life. And, cycling has brought so much joy and privilege and opportunity to my life. How cool is it's now being a position where I get to go to Kenya and do a bike race, and potentially, change or alter the course of someone else's life through. Hopefully having them beat me in a bike race. [00:31:43]How cool would that be if a couple of these riders from the Amani foundation just absolutely hand it to Laurens and I, and that sets them on a course that changes their entire life. And Yeah, it's just such a cool opportunity when you think about it and, when I reflect on my upbringing and moving through the ranks and cycling but on top of that, with Wahoo, we're taking the three best riders from the gravel race of the highest three performing athletes are then coming to the U S later in the year to, to participate in SBT GRVL up in Steamboat Springs, and then Belgium Waffle Ride Asheville, which, performance aside, like how cool is that an African rider gets to perform well on a race and then gets a trip to the U S to see our country. [00:32:23]I get to go over to Kenya and see their country. And it's just the, really the beauty of cycling and the international exchange of cultures and traditions. And yeah, I actually just received a message from one of the Kenyan riders I reconnected on Instagram. And we've been a F. [00:32:37] Doing some WhatsApp back and forth, and he's Hey man, like when you get to Nairobi, let's go for a ride. And I know some roads and he's you're a, you're such a big deal over here in Kenya. Everyone was watching the Unbound gravel. And I'm like, it's crazy to think that, you're doing this race in Kansas and people in Nairobi are watching the event. [00:32:54] Craig Dalton: [00:32:54] That's amazing. Amazing that the technology allows you to communicate with people all over the world at this point. [00:33:00] Ian Boswell: [00:33:00] Yeah, and it really is. And and thanks to technology, it does make it feasible for someone like Neil to coach someone in Kenya, the same way that he would coach me. [00:33:10] Had he been, my coach here in Vermont. So it's, yeah, it's a very cool event on so many levels, and I talk touched on a lot of, the cultural and, Opportunities, but I'm also going to Kenya to, just to see Kenya it's a four day. I guess I should explain the event a bit more. [00:33:24]It's a four-day gravel stage race in the Masai Mara. Which, I've seen quite a few documentaries is an absolutely stunning place. And, I just, yesterday I got my vaccines that we're recommended by the CDC and I guess the travel advisory board here in the U S so yeah, hopefully I'm set to go. [00:33:43]But Bike racing aside. What a trip to be able to go to Kenya and spend four days in Maasai, Mara riding my bike around. [00:33:51] Craig Dalton: [00:33:51] No, I there's. No doubt. It's going to be a spectacular experience. We talked a little bit about the migration gravel race on an earlier episode of the podcast. When I first caught wind of it, it immediately caught my eye having done a couple of stage races in Africa, myself. [00:34:06] It's otherworldly to be racing and look across and see some zebra in the field or some other animals. It's just unbelievable. So I'm super jealous and excited for you to have that experience. [00:34:19]Ian Boswell: [00:34:19] If I may, I want to ask you a question, what should I prepare for? I'm about to pack my bags. [00:34:23] What should I be? Packing as far as, Is there any, are there any items and the race has done a phenomenal job of sending out a manual of like things to bring. But is there anything that you did not have that you would have liked to bring when you went? [00:34:36] Craig Dalton: [00:34:36] The guy I was in the mindset of this is going to be an adventure. [00:34:40] So as much as any races getting from the start to finish line every day and getting your body ready for the next day, I think I made sure to have. Ample gear on my bike for unexpected catastrophes, much like I'm sure you did it Unbound in just things are going to get thrown at you and you're going to have a wilderness experience out there. [00:35:04] So you need to make sure you're [00:35:06] Ian Boswell: [00:35:06] self-sufficient. Okay. Yeah. Good tips. I'll make sure to pack some extra tubes. And I did from a previous trip a river fishing trip. I did have ordered a LifeStraw. So if I do find myself a puddle, hopefully I'll be ready and I'll yeah, I'll throw it in my swap box. [00:35:21] So I I always have it with me. How [00:35:23] Craig Dalton: [00:35:23] many athletes has Wahoo sports science been working with in preparation for this race? [00:35:28] Ian Boswell: [00:35:28] So there's a team of 10 athletes and we've been supporting all of them. Which is awesome. And there's only 75 riders actually participating in the Migration race. So it's a relatively small field, which, coming off Unbound, which is, a huge event. [00:35:40] And, there are people that I had meant to connect with prior to the event. People I knew from Oregon or from California, who, I didn't get a chance to chat with. That's another cool aspect of this event is it's going to be very. Intimate. And, there's a lot of time around the camp to, to speak to these athletes and riders. [00:35:57] And, I'm just, I'm really curious to see there. You know their setups, but also just answer questions about, tactics and drafting and, there's so much to be learned as well, just through observation and, by, myself and Lawrence going, having that direct ability to be able to ride with athletes and, obviously Neil and the sports science team at Wahoo have been. [00:36:16] Coaching the athletes, which is, a huge part of performance is just having the motor to pedal and push and ride these distances. Another aspect that, and I think this is probably one of the most challenging things for people coming from countries that don't have a super strong. [00:36:31] Cycling race background. And, I know that, Rwanda has, a big cycling history and culture, but it's so different when an athlete comes from there and races in Europe or north America and the etiquette or the tactics and the dynamics of the races are different. That's the. [00:36:46]Almost my job on the ground is, to be able to speak to the writers of the Amani foundation, after the races or during the races and, give them small pointers about, drafting or cross winds or where to put their tire on on a rough section of road. [00:37:00]And by no means, am I a great expert at navigating rough and technical descents, but, There's ample opportunity to be there in-person and providing, not so much the training aspects that's already been covered, but the application of, okay, you have this power, you've done the training now, how do you maximize, The race side of it, and I'm happy to be a I don't know, maybe a director in the race, telling people, Hey, this is a great time to attack. [00:37:24] You should go for it. Cause I know Laurens is going to be, he's going to be out there to win and I'm sure he wants to get one over on me after unbalanced, if I can yeah. Employ some of the African riders to try to get them up there and potentially PIP Laurens for a stage or two, then you know, that would be awesome. [00:37:41] Craig Dalton: [00:37:41] I can't wait to follow this. And I do think, as you mentioned, the fact that this is a multi-day stage race and having a camp at night, it's just going to be this really intimate opportunity with that gravel community. For everybody participating in the race, to learn from each other, to have a laugh at the inevitable folly that happens in a gravel event stage. [00:38:04]It's just so much fun. Unlike maybe some of the stage races you've experienced before in Europe, where you went off with your team and you had your bubble and it was just people you knew. I think the community much like you described and experienced in Kansas is going to be there in droves and they just think there's going to be a lot of love at that event. [00:38:22] Ian Boswell: [00:38:22] Yeah and I've already said this to a few people who were heading over there, like inevitably something is going to go wrong and not just because it's, we're heading to Africa, but it happens that, I spoke to people who did Oregon trail and like it's a gravel stage race. [00:38:35]Something is going to, you're going to break something, hopefully it's not your body. Hopefully it's a piece of your bike or, a buckle on your shoe or, a random thing's going to go wrong or you might get food poisoning or dehydrated. So I think it's important for everyone attending to also realize that, things could very easily not be optimal, which I think is the beauty of going to events like this is, it's facing adversity and, really integrating into the location and the landscape and the environment. [00:39:02] And also the culture, which I think is I don't want to go there and, eat pasta and red sauce. I'm not sure what the what's on the menu, but I would love to, Be exposed and open to trying new foods and flavors and fruits. And I think that's one of the coolest things about traveling in this era that we live in, where, you can fly almost anywhere in the world and experience a culture that is so different than the one that we live at home. [00:39:26] Craig Dalton: [00:39:26] Whatever I love about this program that Wahoo has put together, it's not only as fans of the sport and just interested. SA, if people on the sidelines we get to see not only what happens during the migration, gravel race. But then later in the year in Asheville and at SBT gravel, we're going to see a few of these athletes make the trip over and what a great way to just round out the year and see how these athletes progress and see what that investment, that Wahoo  has a company and other partners have made to bring them over there. [00:39:59] And hopefully, as you said, make this a stepping stone for a great future career in cycling. [00:40:05] Ian Boswell: [00:40:05] Yeah, exactly. And just the opportunity to meet them and become friends, because like you said, we are hanging out around a campfire at night, so the opportunity to be a friendly face and what, the same way when I go over to Kenya, someone who is completely out of my element, for them to have a friendly face when they do come to the us to, be a friend on the start line and help them at registration and, lead them on a local ride and talk about the rules of the road in the U S compared to how they are in Kenya. [00:40:31]It's those little things that, I've traveled enough and, Been alone in foreign countries where you just feel like you're on an island and everything is moving so quick around you. So to be able to, make those connections early and then, really welcomed them to, to the U S later in the year is such a cool opportunity. [00:40:45] And, the Masa Mari is up at over 6,000 feet. So these athletes are very well equipped to, race up in. Steamboat Springs, at altitude. Yeah, it's cool. And I'm sure we'll see, regardless of the level that they're out now, I'm sure that we'll see them, at a completely new level, once they do come to the U S just through the experience and observation of, riding with people from a different racing background. [00:41:08]Craig Dalton: [00:41:08] So for the listener, this is going to drop on a Tuesday. Ian will be starting this race tomorrow. So hit the social media channels. Follow him. Let's all try to follow the Migration Gravel Race. I'll put links in the show notes to everything we've talked about. Ian, best of luck over in Africa. I can't wait to revisit this conversation when you come back and and follow the journey of these athletes. [00:41:30]Ian Boswell: [00:41:30] I really appreciate it, Craig. And yeah, I'll do my best to keep everyone in the loop. I'm not sure what my. Connectivity will be out in on the Masa Mara, but yeah, I'll do my best to keep everyone posted and I'm sure there'll be some some feeds and some posting from the from the race organizers as well. [00:41:46] Craig Dalton: [00:41:46] Right on. Thanks Ian. [00:41:47] Ian Boswell: [00:41:47] Thank you, Craig. [00:41:49]Craig Dalton: [00:41:49] So that's it for this edition of the gravel ride podcast. Huge. Thank you. And congratulations to you, Ian Boswell, [00:41:56]And thank you for Wahoo for their support of this podcast. I'm super excited to follow the migration, gravel race. I've been stoked about it ever since I heard it announced at the end of last year, [00:42:08]For those north American European athletes attending the event, it sounds like a great adventure. And for those east African athletes participating in the race, it sounds like a great opportunity. Not only do they get to test their metal against some of the best gravel racers in the world. They get potentially the opportunity. To come do it on us soil. [00:42:29]I'll do my best to keep you updated on the podcast and in the ridership community. But I also encourage you to subscribe and listen to Ian's podcast. Breakfast with Boz. I think he's going to be picking up some very interesting conversations. While he's in kenya and that's going to be a great place to follow what is going on.  [00:42:48]Until next time. Here's to finding some dirt under your wheels

Abi Robins competed in Unbound Gravel this year as the first finisher of the non-binary category. In this interview, they talk to Payson about being the only person to compete in the category, how that knowledge fueled their ride, and how they hope other races will follow suit. They also talk about the struggles of the race itself, from helping fellow riders with spare co2, to a chance mid-race encounter with Lael Wilcox. Molly Cameron calls into the show to ask Abi an all-important Unbound question, and Abi and Payson discuss their mutual fascination with the mental aspects of long races, especially for the vast majority of riders who are not competing for a first place finish. 

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For episode 225, Molly Cameron, Tara Seplavy, Austin Killips and Evelyn Sifton take over the show and have an engaging conversation on inclusivity, awareness and the ramifications of the anti-transgender legislation passed and under consideration in several U.S. states and how those bills and laws affect the transgender community and the sport of cycling. Cyclocross Radio is part of the Wide Angle Podium network. Please consider becoming a member. Go to www.wideanglepodium.com/donate to learn more and contribute. Check out the latest CXs and Os and subscribe to the Wide Angle Podium YouTube channel at www.youtube.com/wideanglepodium Please subscribe to Cyclocross Radio and all of the Wide Angle Podium shows on Apple Podcasts, if that’s how you consume podcasts. Also, rate and review on Apple Podcasts, even if it’s not the way you consume podcasts. To keep up to date, follow @cxhairs  on  Twitter and the CXHAIRS Bulletin on Instagram at @cxhairsbulletin. Have a question, comment, complaint or general inquiry? Hit us up at feedback@cxhairs.com And don’t hesitate to call the helpline: 405-CXHAIRS (405-294-2477). Need coffee? (Trick question, you do). Check out our partnership with Grimpeur Bros and the amazingly tasty Hello Cyclocross Friends! Espresso blend. You can get these flavorful and possibly magical beans here: https://www.grimpeurbros.com/products/hello-cyclocross-friends-wap-espresso

Shauna McGarry, Florian Beijers, Molly Cameron and Marc Abbott share stories about workplace harassment, unhelpful help, psychic art and a guy with a gun.         Support RISK! on Patreon at Patreon.com/RISK Make a one-time donation to RISK! at PayPal.me/RISKshow Get tickets to RISK! live shows at RISK-show.com/tour Get the RISK! book at TheRISKBook.com Take storytelling classes at TheStoryStudio.org Hire Kevin Allison to make a personalized video at Cameo.com/TheKevinAllison Hire Kevin Allison as a coach at KevinAllison.com Text with Kevin about RISK! and storytelling at JoinSubtext.com/RISKshow See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information.

This is Love Hurts. Molly Cameron is a writer and storyteller living in Astoria Queens. Molly shares the story of a promising guy she met on OkCupid who ended up ghosting her, but after she...

Between Two Wheels Podcast: Cycling News, Commentary and Analysis from NorCal; Host Tyler Janke, Curt Mills and Chris Flower; CyclingNews. Two days after the end of the Chico Stage Race, we present a multi-person interview with the Women's Pro Road Team, Point S Racing.  We interview team owner/manager Molly Cameron, up and coming rider Mallory Miller and the team's General Classification Rider Beth Ann Orton.  You can find them online here:  Facebook Twitter (@PointSRacing) Instagram Subscribe to our Between Two Wheels Podcast YouTube Channel.  This Episode is sponsored by HealthIQ.  To learn more and support the show, visit www.healthiq.com/btwGive us a rating and comment on iTunes, Stitcher, Overcast.fm, GooglePay or Podbean and now also on TuneinSubscribe on Android Follow and share us on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/between2wheels/Find us on twitter - @tjanke or Email: cycletyler@gmail.comTeam Website: https://racing.datadrivenathlete.com/

Molly Cameron is an American professional cyclo-cross racing champion winning elite competitions including the 2004 Cross Crusade single speed series. She is the only out transgender athlete to compete in a UCI cyclo-cross world cup. When she's not racing, she's runs the Portland Bicycle Studio, a business she founded in 2001. In this interview, we talk about her pioneering efforts to cultivate a more gender inclusive industry.

Molly Cameron is an American professional cyclo-cross racing champion winning elite competitions including the 2004 Cross Crusade single speed series. She is the only out transgender athlete to compete in a UCI cyclo-cross world cup. When she's not racing, she's runs the Portland Bicycle Studio, a business she founded in 2001. In this interview, we talk about her pioneering efforts to cultivate a more gender inclusive industry.

Looking up at the sky on starry nights was Rev. Molly Cameron's first intimation of something mysterious, big, powerful, and spiritual. She talks about "burning bush" moments that define your life, and how faith in God is actually good for you.  

Looking up at the sky on starry nights was Rev. Molly Cameron's first intimation of something mysterious, big, powerful, and spiritual. She talks about "burning bush" moments that define your life, and how faith in God is actually good for you.

Molly Cameron tries to re-create a spontaneous moment for an album cover and a Stevie Long finds the nerve to sit down and have a difficult conversation with her father. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

PORTLAND, OR - Scott Barker whipped up yet another sweet video compilation, featuring some great footage of pro rider Molly Cameron, who made her 2007 MTB debut in grand style, powering away from the rest of the Pro field to take her very first Portland MTB Short Track win ever. Since Molly has been a very consistent finisher in last year's series (2nd overall in the Pro Men, behind "Mr. Short Track" Shannon Skerritt), we hope to see some sparks in the three remaining races. Video by Scott Barker.