Podcast appearances and mentions of Ian Boswell

UNBOUND 2025 was one for the books — and Ian was in the thick of it. Fresh off a Top 10 finish, Boz takes us through the energy of this year's event — from the expo to the start line, to everything in between. Hear from Wahooligan athletes, ambassadors, racers, and fans with an on-the-ground look at what makes UNBOUND the pinnacle of what gravel racing has become.

Eric Lagerstrom embodies the multi-sport lifestyle, and while you may have seen him competing in some of the world's biggest triathlons, watched his YouTube videos, or listened to his podcast, you'll find his love of exploration and adventure outdoors is extremely apparent. Now with his first ultra-trail win under his belt, Eric is joined by Ian for the latest episode of Breakfast with Boz for a chat about the current state of professional triathlon, his plans for competition in the new year, and his goals for his career moving forward.

Researcher, engineer, Sports Science PhD, Ultra-marathoner and Physiologist for Team USA and USOPC — Geoff Burns knows his stuff when it comes to running shoes. Now, as Ian begins his foray into marathoning with his first race coming this year, he's joined by Geoff for a deep dive into the history of running shoes and insight on how the modern super shoe maximizes performance and helps avoid injury.

Der Besenwagen gräbt sich mit fetten Reifen durch den Schnee. Mit allen Heizsystemen auf Hochtouren pflügen wir uns den Weg in ein entlegenes Dorf im Norden der USA. Eine weite Reise liegt hinter uns, aber wir finden das Haus von Ian Boswell trotzdem sehr schnell. Nachbarn gibt es hier nicht viele und nur aus einem Haus hören wir das Rauschen eines Rollentrainers. Nach ein paar Jahren im Peloton der WorldTour und Wohnsitz in Europa, hat Ian seine Koffer gepackt und ist zurück in sein Heimatland gezogen, eben in dieses kleine Dorf im US-Bundesstaat Vermont. In der Abgeschiedenheit findet er seine Leidenschaft zum Radfahren wieder und wird zu einem bekannten Gesicht der Gravel-Szene.

Jump inside the EF Pro Cycling team car for a day of racing at the Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal. Hear from riders, directors, and staff at one of only two World Tour races held in North America.

While she's still relatively new to the world of bike racing, Velocio // Exploro's Sarah Lange has risen the ranks at some of the nation's biggest off-road events — this year Sarah came in fifth at UNBOUND and Leadville respectively. However, racing bikes isn't her only discipline, when she's not riding, you'll find Sarah working as a Clinical Dietitian, helping her clients unlock their full potential. Tune in to hear more from Sarah about everything from being a newcomer in the sport, to her rapid rise in gravel, and her insights into modern sports nutrition.

Adventure cyclist Lael Wilcox has just wrapped up an incredible tour around the world on her bike, taking the current record and completing the trip in a whopping 108 days 12 hours and 12 minutes. Hear from Lael as she chats with Ian about the ups and downs, highs and lows, and relationships made while pushing the pace in the farthest corners of the world.

Wondering what it's like to live in Belgium while training for your first Tour de France Femmes? Join Dominique Powers and Ruth Edwards for an inside look at how the Australian pro is approaching her return to road cycling with Human Powered Health ahead of this year's biggest race.

From piloting planes to landing on podiums at the Paralympics, Clara Brown is no stranger to flying high :airplane_departure: Yet that wasn't always the case. When Clara was 12, she suffered a traumatic spinal cord injury that left her paralyzed from the neck down. Tune into the latest episode of Breakfast with Boz to hear from Clara about discovering cycling, competing in Paris, and what it's like training on the East Coast.

One of our most popular episodes! Professional cyclist and now 'Gravel King'  Ian Boswell joins us along with former World tour Teammate, Jon Dibben. Ian, 'The Bos', was destined to join the elite group of Grand Tour winners when a crash ended his career. Suffering severe concussion  Ian left the sport. We discuss the impact of concussion in elite sport In a candid discussion around  the emotional impact of losing both your job and part of your identity Ian explains how he has found new purpose and the myriad  projects he is now involved with, from fire fighting , farming and gravel racing.  Join Anne, Bev and guest host Jonathan Dibben to hear his amazing journey and how he is building a new identity and dreams.  A lot has happened into year since we spoke to Ian, we have kept in touch and are delighted he is now a proud father. Do follow Ian @ianboswell on instagram and give his podcast "Breakfast with Bob" a listen   If you have a question or any feedback email unexpectedturnspod@aol.com or send us a message on our social media channels. To find out more follow  @wahoofitness,@ianboswell,@performancebydibben,@jdibben94,@unexpectedturnspod on instagram. #unepectedturns  #concusion #concusioninsport #mentalhealth #elitesport #gravelracing #wahoo #identity #headinjury #cyclecrashes

Neilson Powless joins the podcast from his car on the way to see the Leaning Tower of Pisa ahead of the 2024 Tour de France. Hear from Neilson about what success looks like for him and his team and how he sometimes skips a post-race massage in exchange for some peace and quiet

Whether she's bringing good vibes to the squad on race day, hyping up her teammates in the peloton, or making new friends while at home in Girona, community is what matters most to EF Education-Cannondale's Alison Jackson. Join Alison and Dominique Powers for episode three of Embrace Every Moment.

Lachlan Morton, Greg Van Avermaet, Team AMANI, Sofia Gomez Villafane, and more — your Breakfast with Boz UNBOUND 2024 recap has arrived! Hear from the winners, riders, and organizers on all the excitement, preparation, and relief that goes alongside participating in gravel cycling's marquee event.

EPISODE 101 - UNBOUND Preview w/ Ian Boswell What up party people. Going to keep this intro short because this UNBOUND mega preview episode went way longer than usual and I want to get y'all into the goods stat. Ian Boswell joined us in the studio this week to talk all things UNBOUND and clear the air on some of contentious topics. We're talking equipment setup, conditions, race strategy, you name it. If you have any questions or feedback for the show you can drop us a note at bonkbrospodcast@gmail.com or hit us up on the Bonk Bros insta (@bonkbros @dylanjawnson @adamsaban6 @tylerclouti @raddaddizzle @scottmcgilljr). And don't forget to check out all the offerings from our friends over at Dynamic Cyclist to help you stay healthy and mobile on and off the bike - checkout with discount code BONKBROS (all upper case) for a free 7 day trial and 10% off any subscription plans. Alright let's get this episode started.   Patreon: http://patreon.com/patreon_bonkbros     Silca (15% discount code: bonkbrosbikewash): https://silca.cc/?utm_source=Bonk+Bros&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=stripchip&utm_id=Bonk+Bros+Podcast   Dynamic Cyclist (10% discount code: BONKBROS): https://new.dynamiccyclist.com/a/43703/xkYViFV8   BOLT (15% discount code: BONKBROS15): BOLT Skin + Shaveboltshave.com   For more Dylan Johnson content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIf1xvRN8pzyd_VfLgj_dow Listener Question Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1T37wGRLk6iYTCF6X_DQ9yfcaYtfAQceKpBJYR5W7DVA/edit?ts=642eb6d6   The Following Was Generated Using AI And Should Not Be Held To The Higher Standards Of Sentient Beings - Riverside.fm Summary The conversation begins with a lighthearted banter between the hosts and guests, discussing beefs and disagreements. It then transitions into a discussion about the Unbound race, including the drama, race strategies, and equipment testing. The conversation also touches on suspension forks, aero wheels, and the dynamics of the gravel racing scene. The conversation covers a range of topics related to equipment setup, weather conditions, race experiences, and the evolving nature of gravel racing. The speakers also engage in a lighthearted discussion about comparing themselves to characters from Lord of the Rings. The conversation covers a range of topics including race preparation, equipment setup, and rule loopholes. The hosts discuss the Unbound race, the challenges of long races, and the importance of race strategy. They also touch on the idea of focusing too much on a single race and the impact of luck in racing. The conversation covers a range of topics including misinformation, ethical guidelines, tire testing, VO2 max, and number placement for races. The hosts and guests engage in lighthearted banter and share personal experiences related to these topics. The conversation covers a range of topics related to cycling, race predictions, and the participants' views on various riders. They also discuss the Unbound Gravel race and share their predictions for the event. The conversation covers a range of topics including race predictions, listener interactions, health updates, tire choices, and upcoming events. The hosts also discuss their golf plans and the performance of a specific athlete in recent races.   Keywords gravel racing, Unbound race, drama, suspension forks, aero wheels, race strategies, equipment testing, gravel racing dynamics, gravel racing, equipment setup, weather conditions, race experiences, Lord of the Rings, character comparison, race preparation, equipment setup, rule loopholes, Unbound race, long races, race strategy, luck in racing, misinformation, ethical guidelines, tire testing, VO2 max, number placement, race preparation, lighthearted banter, personal experiences, cycling, race predictions, Unbound Gravel, riders, cycling tactics, international racers, race predictions, listener interactions, health updates, tire choices, golf plans, athlete performance   Takeaways Gravel racing often involves drama and disagreements among riders. Suspension forks and aero wheels play a significant role in race strategies and equipment choices. The dynamics of the gravel racing scene, including the competitive nature and strategic decision-making, are explored in the conversation. Gravel racing involves meticulous equipment setup and testing to optimize performance. Weather conditions play a significant role in determining equipment setup and race strategy. The evolving nature of gravel racing has led to a deeper level of professionalism and preparation among racers. The speakers engage in a lighthearted comparison of themselves to characters from Lord of the Rings, showcasing their camaraderie and humor. Race preparation and equipment setup are crucial for long races like Unbound. Focusing too much on a single race can lead to disappointment and frustration. Luck plays a significant role in racing, but the best athletes make their own luck through smart decisions and preparation. The discussion explores the concept of misinformation and its impact on the audience. Ethical guidelines and the responsibility of content creators to provide accurate information are highlighted. Tire testing and the aerodynamic performance of different tire setups are discussed in relation to race performance. The significance of VO2 max in endurance sports and the impact of number placement on race performance are explored. Insights into the participants' predictions for the Unbound Gravel race Discussion on the tactics and strategies of various riders Exploration of the international racers participating in the event Insights into the hosts' predictions for upcoming races Engagement with podcast listeners and fans Updates on the health and well-being of the hosts Discussion of tire choices and their impact on race performance Casual conversation about golf plans and athlete performance   Titles Navigating Gravel Drama: A Discussion with Gravel Racers The Unbound Race: Drama, Strategies, and Equipment Testing The Evolving Professionalism of Gravel Racing Navigating Weather Conditions and Race Strategy The Role of Luck in Racing Race Preparation and Equipment Setup Tire Testing and Race Performance Understanding VO2 Max in Endurance Sports Cycling Tactics and Strategies International Racers at Unbound Gravel Health Updates and Tire Choices Golf Plans and Athlete Performance   Sound Bites "All right, we got we got two of the biggest gravel beefers on the pod right now." "I don't think that I have an opinion. You guys have an opinion. Um, and they're just, they're different." "The first year I did Unbound in 2018, people had loud forks." "We should do it the, yeah, Lord of the Rings of Gravel." "You could do both. You could, cause each movie is like what, a little over three hours? You could do them at the same time. I could watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy and probably finish Unbound and it would be like roughly the same amount of time." "So, so." "But the rule is you have to ride the same frame throughout the duration of the race. So they thought that one through. But you can't swap anything else, yeah. But same frame." "I figure anyone who's decent is above 70." "Having your number flat on the front of your handlebars is a 10-minute penalty at unbound." "Yeah, let's talk predictions." "So are you gonna tow the specialized corporate line and go with Sophia for the women's race too?" "Don't you think if it's muddy though it comes down a little more to fitness?" "That's why." "Godfather of gravel." "I had a couple people this weekend at the crits come up and say that they're big fans of the podcast."   Chapters 00:00 Gravel Beefers and Disagreements 03:02 Unbound Race Drama and Strategies 06:00 Suspension Forks and Aero Wheels 18:44 Navigating Weather Conditions and Race Strategy 26:05 The Evolving Professionalism of Gravel Racing 36:02 Lighthearted Comparisons: Gravel Racers as Lord of the Rings Characters 39:25 Race Preparation and Equipment Setup 44:39 The Impact of Focusing on a Single Race 53:40 The Role of Luck in Racing 54:51 Exploring Misinformation and Ethical Guidelines 59:11 Tire Testing and Race Performance 01:09:05 Understanding VO2 Max in Endurance Sports 01:13:10 The Impact of Number Placement on Race Performance 01:14:07 Unbound Gravel Race Predictions and Rider Analysis 01:16:10 Cycling Tactics and Strategies 01:17:46 International Racers at Unbound Gravel 01:28:38 Race Predictions and Listener Interactions 01:32:18 Health Updates and Tire Choices 01:39:13 Golf Plans and Athlete Performance

Levi Leipheimer is a former professional cyclist and the organizer of Levi's Gran Fondo, an event in Sonoma County, CA, with an added competitive edge that's designed to bring excitement back to the American road racing scene. In this episode, Levi and Ian talk about the changing landscape of American bike racing and the opportunities to provide more aspiring cyclists with chances to race.

EPISODE 100 - New Sound Same Us | Scott Throws Down at US Pro Nats, International Affairs at Gravel Locos, and DJ Hot Takes What is up party people. Did you hear that? Yeah that's right, we're coming atcha with some fresh beats as we enter a new era for the podcast. Episode 100 means it's time to turn it up a notch and that intro was just a little something our new producer cooked up as one of the many creative ideas they've been throwing at us for how we can level up the show for y'all to keep things spicy. Speaking of leveling up, if you've been tuning into these episode via YouTube then you've gotten a little sneak peak at our latest re-branding efforts WHICH are also dropping today with the launch of our revamped website including a landing page where you can learn a little bit about each of the Bonk Bros, check out some of the marquee events each of us plan to be at this season, and even a merch page that we'll be continuing to update as new designs come through. Yeah that's right, new sound and look but don't worry, we'll still be the same ol' Bonk Bros for as long as y'all keep tuning in. We're talking Scott absolutely throwing down at US Pro Nats  (and Dizzle going down - yikes, but he's all good) with a podium spot in the crit and 4th place in the road race, the international podium sweep at Gravel Locos this past weekend, and DJ's latest hot take on Alexey Vermeulen deciding to skip Unbound in exchange for being a civilized sibling and attending his brothers wedding instead. All this and more coming right up.   If you have any questions or feedback for the show you can drop us a note at bonkbrospodcast@gmail.com or hit us up on the Bonk Bros insta (@bonkbros @dylanjawnson @adamsaban6 @tylerclouti @raddaddizzle @scottmcgilljr). And don't forget to check out all the offerings from our friends over at Dynamic Cyclist to help you stay healthy and mobile on and off the bike - checkout with discount code BONKBROS (all upper case) for a free 7 day trial and 10% off any subscription plans. Alright let's get this episode 100 party started.   Patreon: http://patreon.com/patreon_bonkbros     Merch: https://bb5a73-20.myshopify.com/   Website: bonkbrospodcast.com    Silca (15% discount code: bonkbrosbikewash): https://silca.cc/?utm_source=Bonk+Bros&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=stripchip&utm_id=Bonk+Bros+Podcast   Dynamic Cyclist (10% discount code: BONKBROS): https://new.dynamiccyclist.com/a/43703/xkYViFV8   BOLT Skin + Shave (15% discount code: BONKBROS15): BOLT Skin + Shaveboltshave.com   For more Dylan Johnson content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIf1xvRN8pzyd_VfLgj_dow Listener Question Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1T37wGRLk6iYTCF6X_DQ9yfcaYtfAQceKpBJYR5W7DVA/edit?ts=642eb6d6   The Following Was Generated Using AI And Should Not Be Held To The Higher Standards Of Sentient Beings - Riverside.fm   Summary In this conversation, the hosts celebrate their 100th podcast episode and discuss the recent bike race results. They reflect on the growth of their podcast and speculate on whether anyone has listened to every episode. They then discuss the performance of Project Echelon in the bike race, including a crash and a podium finish. They also talk about the use of a specific helmet by the EF women's team and the number of national championships won by one of the hosts. Finally, they discuss the challenging road race and the strategies employed by the riders. Scott's impressive performance at Unbound, skipping important events for bike races, and the debate over prioritizing races or family events. The conversation covers various topics related to the Gravel Locos race and the upcoming Unbound race. They discuss the VO2 levels of different riders, the international field at Gravel Locos, and the start list for Unbound. They also talk about the probability of getting a flat tire during the race and the possibility of wagering on the fantasy gravel game. The conversation ends with a discussion about creating t-shirts. In this final part of the conversation, the hosts discuss the upcoming guest appearance of Ian Boswell, a former winner of the Unbound gravel race. They also read feedback from a listener and discuss their roles on the podcast. The conversation ends with a discussion about the fantasy Unbound gravel contest and the possibility of a head-to-head showdown between the hosts and the Bonk Bros.   Keywords podcast, 100th episode, bike race, Project Echelon, crash, podium finish, helmet, national championships, road race, strategies, Unbound, Scott, performance, bike races, family events, priorities, Gravel Locos, Unbound, VO2 levels, international field, start list, flat tire, wager, fantasy gravel game, t-shirts, Ian Boswell, Unbound gravel race, listener feedback, podcast roles, fantasy contest, head-to-head showdown   Takeaways Celebrating milestones is important and can be a fun way to reflect on achievements. Crashes are a common occurrence in bike races and can have a significant impact on the outcome. Equipment choices, such as helmets, can vary between male and female riders. National championships are a significant achievement and can be earned through individual and team performances. Road races can be challenging, and pacing and strategy are crucial for success. Scott's fourth-place finish at Unbound was a remarkable achievement. The decision to skip important family events for bike races is a personal choice that depends on individual priorities. Alexey's decision to skip Unbound for his brother's wedding sparked a debate about the importance of races versus family events. The opportunity to qualify for the Olympics influenced Alexey's decision to prioritize racing over attending the wedding. Positioning and physical fitness are crucial factors in achieving success in races like Unbound. The debate over prioritizing races or family events is subjective and depends on the individual's goals and values. Gravel Locos had a strong international field with riders from various countries. The start list for Unbound is filled with top riders from around the world. There is a discussion about the probability of getting a flat tire during the race. The idea of wagering on the fantasy gravel game is brought up. The hosts talk about creating t-shirts related to the conversation. Ian Boswell, a former winner of the Unbound gravel race, will be a guest on the podcast The hosts read feedback from a listener and discuss their roles on the podcast They plan to organize a fantasy Unbound gravel contest and a head-to-head showdown with the Bonk Bros   Titles National Championships: A Measure of Success The Challenges and Strategies of Road Racing The Influence of Olympic Qualification Scott's Impressive Performance at Unbound Creating Gravel-Themed T-Shirts Unbound Start List: A Global Lineup Listener Feedback and Discussion on Podcast Roles Former Unbound Gravel Winner Ian Boswell to Guest on the Podcast   Sound Bites "It's a big day today, guys." "Somehow we're still kicking." "Did Scott crash himself out on purpose?" "Scott's fourth-place finish at Unbound was a remarkable achievement." "The decision to skip important family events for bike races is a personal choice that depends on individual priorities." "The opportunity to qualify for the Olympics influenced Alexey's decision to prioritize racing over attending the wedding." "Nielsen said 73 or 74 and I was like, that is pretty low, buddy." "Speaking of guys with high VO2s, huh?" "Locos is like, it's a race in Texas that it's like all international riders." "Former Unbound Gravel Winner Ian Boswell to Guest on the Podcast" "Fantasy Unbound Gravel Contest and Head-to-Head Showdown with the Bonk Bros"   Chapters 00:00 Celebrating 100 Episodes 02:59 Crashes and Podium Finishes 06:08 Helmet Choices 09:00 National Championships 12:02 The Challenges of Road Racing 40:12 The Influence of Olympic Qualification 43:08 Unbound Start List: A Global Lineup 48:21 The Probability of Flat Tires in Gravel Racing 53:31 Wagering on the Fantasy Gravel Game 56:36 Creating Gravel-Themed T-Shirts 01:07:31 Former Unbound Gravel Winner Ian Boswell to Guest on the Podcast 01:09:36 Fantasy Unbound Gravel Contest and Head-to-Head Showdown with the Bonk Bros

Professional ultra trail runner Jim Walmlsey joins the podcast to talk about the start of his 2024 season, goals for the upcoming year, what it's like winning UTMB, and a behind-the-scenes look at how WALMSLEY | THE FILM came to life. https://youtu.be/MbXwKTZoLQ4?si=PF2cL-W2TMcohQ2b

In the second episode of the Embrace Every Moment podcast takeover, Dominique Powers goes inside the women's pro peloton for a chat with Lidl-Trek's Ellen Van Dijk and Elynor Bäckstedt on how family plays a crucial role in training and racing at the highest level.

Alison Tetrick is former professional road cyclist and winner for the Unbound Gravel 200. Alison is still competitive while focusing more effort on the advancement and equality of women's cycling.

Today's episode is all about one of the most iconic races of the calendar- Paris Roubaix. We join Lifeplus–Wahoo, a UCI women's cycling team based in the United Kingdom, for their preparation and execution of the race. What does a race weekend look like for a team? What goes into getting everyone ready for the action? How many people are involved? What are the feelings leading up to one of the most iconic races of the season? Join the Lifeplus Wahoo team as they prepare for, and race, the 2024 Paris Roubaix Femmes avec Zwift.

Life in the Peloton is proudly brought to you by MAAP Since retiring from the pro pelo, I've been itching to dip my toes into as many different cycling disciplines as possible. I raced on drop handlebars and skinny tyres for over a decade, now I want a heap of new challenges to tackle on the bike.  I love getting out and exploring on my gravel bike, and I've tried my hand at some gravel races; but the bikes and bunch dynamics feel a little too similar to road racing sometimes. I want to get out of my comfort zone!  Cross-country mountain biking was the natural next step. I started out by exploring my own backyard on the rowdy moto tracks in the Cobaws, then some races in Aussie events like Otway Odyssey, Reef to Reef, and Cape to Cape. Every time I got on the XC bike I felt like my skills were improving and I was growing more and more confident - the same feeling I had all those years ago when I first got into road cycling as a youngster. It was new, challenging, and I could feel the progression with every ride. My cross-country journey hit new heights at the end of last year as I took on the creme de la creme of XC MTB; the Cape Epic, alongside my good mate and fellow retired road racer, Ian Boswell.  Despite completing one of the biggest mountain bike races on the planet, I still feel like there's more to explore in the world of flat handlebars, chunky tyres, and suspension. I want to keep working on my skills and pushing myself in areas other than pure fitness. That's why I'm diving headfirst into the world of Enduro. Enduro is the perfect next step on my mountain biking journey; there's some pedalling, sure, but it's more about technique, skill, and balls! In Enduro racing it's all about the downhill - only the descents are timed. Nobody gives a fuck how fast you can climb, you just need to get to the top so you can send the next trail. Riders race multiple stages throughout an event, and at the end the lowest cumulative time wins. I started by chatting to Paul Van Der Ploeg. A great bloke, and a fantastic mentor to show me the ropes and teach me the basics, Paul and I headed out to Mount Macedon so he could critique my technique and give me some pointers. Paul has raced all sorts of bikes over the years, and even became a world champion himself in the Cross Country Eliminator in 2013, but was humble enough to strip it all back and teach this newbie some basics. Next, I spoke to Matt Fairbrother. Only 20 years old and hailing from Christchurch in New Zealand, Matt is a ripping Enduro racer who made a name for himself by bikepacking his way between the races at the Enduro World Series - sometimes thousands of kilometres at a time! Matt and I had a chat on the road to the New Zealand MTB Rally; a brand new event that I'll be taking on to help me better understand the world of enduro. Despite being almost half my age, Matt's one of the most experienced riders out there and shared a lot of his wisdom with me on a road trip down the coast of the South Island from Christchurch to Nelson. When we arrived we had a couple of days to spare before the racing started, so Matt took me out to some of his favourite trails in Nelson City and Cable Bay to show me the race course so we could pre-ride, re-ride, and then free ride! We also spoke about the tech side of enduro. I've not got much clue when it comes to tyre selection or suspension settings - so I spoke to Paul and Matt about the bikes to get some pointers. I even learnt that my bike's got a mullet just like me!  There's so much for me to learn about all things mountain biking, but I'm loving being a beginner again and soaking it all in! Have a listen to me talking to some real experts as I send it into the world of enduro. Cheers! Mitch

Matteo Jorgenson is an American professional road cyclist with Visma-Lease A Bike and quickly becoming one of the best riders in the pro peloton. Ian and Matteo catch up about his successful spring and winning Paris-Nice.

If you would like to make a donation to FireFlies Patagonia you can do so HERE

Support the FireFlies by making a donation here: https://www.firefliespatagonia.com/fundraising-ian-boswell/

Andy Chasteen, co-director of the Rule of Three gravel event in Bentonville, Arkansas, joins host Craig Dalton to discuss the vibrant gravel cycling community in Northwest Arkansas. They delve into the importance of connectivity and safe infrastructure for cyclists, the origins of the Rule of Three event, and the unique experience it offers with a combination of pavement, gravel, and singletrack. Andy also shares his perspective on event organization and the value of creating a memorable and enjoyable experience for participants. Don't miss this engaging conversation about the growth and excitement surrounding gravel cycling in Bentonville. Rule of Three Website Episode sponsor: Pillar Performance (use code CRAIG for 15% off) Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  About the Guest(s): Andy Chasteen is an avid cyclist and the co-founder of Rule of Three, a unique gravel cycling event held in Bentonville, Arkansas. He has a background in rock climbing and ultra marathoning, which led him to discover his passion for cycling. Andy is also a consultant in the outdoor industry and has worked with brands like Allied Cycle Works. He is dedicated to creating a vibrant cycling community in Northwest Arkansas and promoting the gravel riding experience. Episode Summary: In this episode, Craig Dalton interviews Andy Chasteen, co-founder of Rule of Three, about the vibrant gravel cycling community in Northwest Arkansas and the unique gravel event they organize. They discuss the growth of Bentonville as a cycling destination, the importance of connectivity and safe infrastructure, and the origins of Rule of Three. Andy shares his journey from rock climbing to cycling and his passion for creating events that offer a challenging yet enjoyable experience for participants. He also emphasizes the value of different types of gravel events and the need for inclusivity in the cycling community. Key Takeaways: Bentonville, Arkansas, has become a thriving cycling destination with a strong focus on connectivity and safe infrastructure. Rule of Three is a gravel cycling event that combines pavement, gravel, and single track sections to create a challenging and engaging experience. The event aims to provide a unique and fun atmosphere for participants, with a focus on community building and inclusivity. Andy Chasteen believes that gravel cycling offers a more accessible and enjoyable experience for riders of all skill levels. Rule of Three is committed to delivering a high-quality event and prioritizes participant experience over profit. Notable Quotes: "We're building gravel connectors that are not used by cars. They're just for cyclists to get from the center of Bentonville out into these rural areas." - Andy Chasteen "Gravel riding resonated with my culture and personality. It felt like home." - Andy Chasteen "Our goal is to put on the best event possible for the people that show up." - Andy Chasteen Automated Transcription.  Please excuse the typos: [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - ():  Craig Dalton: Andy welcome to the show. [00:00:03] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Thank you. It's an honor to be here. I've been listening to you for a long time. [00:00:08] - ():  Craig Dalton: That's amazing [00:00:09] - ():  Andy Chasteen: to hear Andy. Well, sometimes it's just weird to be on a podcast that you've been listening to and you're talking to the person that you listen to all the time. So it's. It can be awkward, but it's great. **** - (): It's an honor to be here. Thank you. [00:00:20] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I feel like I've been observing your antics from afar for a while. So I feel like I know you a little bit, but it's the first time I think that we've actually got a chance to chat. [00:00:30] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah. Yeah. I'm S I'm super stoked to talk to you. So sweet, [00:00:34] - ():  Craig Dalton: well, a lot of people will have heard of rule of three, and I definitely want to get into that event. **** - (): Super excited to talk to you about that and, um, gravel cycling in Northwest Arkansas as well. Just as a general topic, because I know as we were talking about offline, that community that you're part of cultivating and a member of is just. So vibrant that, uh, you know, I just love to hear stories from the ground and how other communities can mimic what you're doing and the passion that the community seems to have for gravel riding. [00:01:04] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah. It's, uh, you know, as we were, as we were talking a few minutes ago, there's a lot going on here and, uh, it's quite exciting. And as we like to stay around here, we're, uh, we're just on first base, which is kind of, which is kind of exciting to, to even say, yeah. [00:01:19] - ():  Craig Dalton: And for those of us who have been to Bentonville to. **** - (): To, to hear you describe it as first base is insane because you've got great infrastructure. You can get around town on bike paths, but that's just the tip tip tip of the iceberg. There's a couple of substantial mountain bike areas and obviously miles and miles and miles of great gravel as demonstrated in the big sugar gravel event every [00:01:41] - ():  Andy Chasteen: year. **** - (): That's right. And, uh, you know, we're working on, you know, like you said, connectivity, and I don't mean to jump straight into this, but like a lot of what we are working on in the Bentonville area is connectivity. How can we connect neighborhoods, uh, you know, business centers and just life in general to trail and gravel road and safe connectors to get out into these rural area, like. **** - (): That's a, that's a thing that's been on our mind for, you know, well, for, for a while, but what we've really focused on in the past year is, is really making, it's connecting, uh, Bentonville or the Northwest Arkansas area to the ride experience, which has been a fun, a fun time for [00:02:24] - ():  Craig Dalton: sure. Yeah, I bet. You know, that, that safe connector thread, I think is so important because a lot of areas are great for cycling, but you have to get there and many of us want to ride there. **** - (): And if riding there is dangerous, that's just going to prevent people from enjoying the sport in the way we want them to. [00:02:42] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah, uh, the lens with which we've been looking at, uh, let's, let's just stay on the gravel side for now, but like the lens with which we've been looking at the gravel side of the, you know, the experience in Northwest Arkansas is, has been heavily towards, okay. **** - (): This area is growing. This area is growing very, very fast. And there's, there are some things that we cannot control and we can't control growth. You know, we, we, we don't, you know, we want the Bentonville Northwest Arkansas area to grow and be prosperous. And, you know, but we also have to make sure that that experience for the rider is You know, safe, it's enjoyable. **** - (): Um, it's, uh, it's approachable for someone who might be brand new. So that's kind of the lens with which we've been looking at the gravel experience. And quite honestly, we're building gravel connectors that are not used by cars. They're just for cyclists to get from. Say, let's just say for right now, uh, the center of Bentonville out into these rural areas. **** - (): So as Bentonville grows and the footprint expands, those will be protected in perpetuity for their gravel experience, which is really cool. And I'm maybe there's other, you know, communities doing that. But if, if they are, I'm not aware of it. And it really is this amazing foresight, uh, to where 20 years from now, we hope that the gravel experience is protected and enhanced and, uh, and it's still what it currently is. **** - (): So. [00:04:11] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's probably worth, you know, I've, I've spoken about Bentonville a couple of times on the podcast before, but it's probably worth noting that the sort of. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the major employer in Bentonville is Walmart and then entities that are related to Walmart. And it's just, it's been there for many, many years. **** - (): Sure. The Walmart family has had a commitment to investing in cycling infrastructure. So that when they're thinking about their new campus from the ground up, they're always thinking about how can people ride bikes in and it seems from an outsider's perspective that that's infused across the entire town. **** - (): Just this idea that bikes are going to be part of this community and to your recent point, we're going to build in infrastructure from the onset of planning, not try to slap it on after we've built a subdivision or grown the community in [00:05:02] - ():  Andy Chasteen: some way. That's right. There has to be some foresight and you're right there. **** - (): That's the, that's the, that's the focus for sure. And it can't be done. Like you said, behind the ball, we have to be ahead of the ball on that. You know, for example, the walmart's building a new, uh, ginormous, uh, home office campus and on that campus will be single track and there's initiatives within the, within the home office, you know, To, to have a certain percentage of people commuting there, you know, to, to work on, you know, on a weekly basis. **** - (): And so there is a lot of foresight within, you know, cycling and riding a bike is not only healthy, but it makes, you know, it's just, it's better for a community as well. So, yeah, absolutely. [00:05:44] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah. And as an off road cyclist, I remember going from my Airbnb to an event that the people, people for bikes conference people were having at the, that great museum you have there. **** - (): And I remember Bridges. Yeah, Crystal Bridges. Yeah. And I remember having the opportunity to ride single track just on the way there to get from point A to point B. And I was like, this is fantastic. [00:06:07] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah. There's kids, you know, kids ride single track to school every day, which I mean, yeah, I'm a little jealous cause I wish I would have had that experience, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's, we got a lot going on here. **** - (): There's it's. I like to use the word bonkers. There's a lot of bonkers things going on here. It's busy. It's bustling and it's great. If you're a bike rider, it's hard for me to think there's a better place to be. That's for sure. [00:06:32] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah, no, I agree. It's definitely someplace everybody needs to visit at some point. **** - (): You know, Northwest Arkansas 10 years ago might not have been on people's radar as a cyclist as a place to go. And now I think unequivocally for anybody who's set foot in that town of Bentonville in that area, it's an emphatic yes, go visit. [00:06:51] - ():  Andy Chasteen: That's right. Yeah, for sure. For [00:06:52] - ():  Craig Dalton: sure. You were talking about sort of childhood and the ability to ride to school, etc. **** - (): Yeah. Let's, let's roll back a second and just kind of learn a little bit more about where you grew up, Andy. And how'd you find the bike originally? [00:07:05] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Well, man, that's a long story, but I'll try to, I'll try to keep it short. Uh, I grew up in Southern Missouri, kind of right across the border, actually from Northwest Arkansas. **** - (): It's a really small town. Went off to college. Um, I played, I actually played basketball in college and, uh, you know, in, into team sports, basically, you know, my entire childhood and into, you know, probably 21, 22 years old. And then after I graduated college, I, I got obsessed with rock climbing for some weird reason and, uh, and got really into rock climbing, ultra marathoning. **** - (): Um, and like I said, like a very long story made very short, maybe not very short, but short, um, I was running the, I was running ultra marathons and in order to train for ultra marathons, I'm like a big guy by like 200 and I knew that I couldn't run a lot of miles to train for these ultras. And so what I would do is I would go out for like, you know, maybe like a 10 mile trail run and then I would jump on a bicycle. **** - (): I wasn't a cyclist, but I would jump on a bicycle. To take that, you know, pressure off of my joints and like keep injury free. And so I, I would go out and jump on a bicycle for four hours and I just got hooked, completely hooked and really the rest is history, been on a bike ever since. Um, and you know. I still love to do all these. **** - (): I love outdoor endeavor, outdoor rec, anything outdoor rec, paddling, you know, climbing trail. I like all that, but my obsession is certainly with the bike. So, um, that's the, that's the short story and we [00:08:39] - ():  Craig Dalton: did you discover yourself as a, as a mountain biker in those early days or what, what was your niche of choice? [00:08:46] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Uh, at the time I was actually living in, in Oklahoma city and which, which is, you know, It's there's, there's not a lot of what I would consider like great bike riding there, but the community is amazing. It's a very tight knit, not a big community, very tight knit, but it's very road centric. Um, so I started off kind of on the road bike and, uh, you know, I raced, I did road racing and crate racing and all that. **** - (): And, uh, I, I was, I was certainly into mountain biking at the time, but that wasn't what I spent most of my days doing. So it kind of started on the road. [00:09:17] - ():  Craig Dalton: Gotcha. Since we're going to get into the rule of three event that you're putting on there in Bentonville, I think it's going to be interesting to just talk about your journey and experience as an event organizer. **** - (): And I know from your bio that a rock, a big rock climbing event happened sometime. In that period. So why don't you walk us through like that event? Cause I think it is for those of you who haven't heard of Horseshoe hell, go look it up. I think I S I want to say I saw, uh, some stuff on Red Bull TV about it, but I've read about it now outside magazine over the years. **** - (): So it's a really amazing event, but I'd love to just hear how it got started because I think it's part of your origin story as someone who stuck up their hand and said, I can put on an [00:10:00] - ():  Andy Chasteen: event. Yeah, for sure. So like, you know, rewind back when I was in this very obsessive rock climbing phase and, uh, you know, there's a, there's this beautiful, beautiful canyon out in, uh, in Arkansas called, uh, Horseshoe Canyon Ranch, and they have, you know, 600, uh, you know, sport routes. **** - (): Um, so single pitch technical, you know, sport route, rock climbing. And I would spend a lot of time there in kind of the early years of my climbing. And we just, me and some buddies, when we can get this crazy idea, it's, it's kind of an outdoor climbing gym. You got a route here, you can climb this route, you take, you know, 10 steps to your right and you got another one, you know what I mean? **** - (): It's like route on route on right on route. And they're all really good routes. And so I, we got this wild idea to put on an event that was like a 24 hour rock climbing competition, which seems. Idiotic. Yeah. Had anybody [00:10:54] - ():  Craig Dalton: done that in the past? No, no, no. Yeah, we have like on the mountain bike side, there's 24 hour mountain bike racing, but sounds like it was a totally foreign concept. [00:11:03] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Very foreign. Of course, very, very foreign. Um, and so, and all my buddies thought it was a great idea, but nobody really wanted to like I kind of take the reins. So I took the reins and, uh, and, uh, you know, I, it's a private, it's a private property. So I, you know, I went and asked the owner and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. **** - (): You can do that. And just, and thus started this beautiful relationship. This is 2006. And, uh, this, this beautiful relationship with this, with this great, amazing place. And we built this. really cool experience where it started off as a 24 hour rock climbing competition, but now it's a five day festival, right? **** - (): And so, uh, outside climbing or I'm sorry, outside magazine calls it the burning man of rock climbing. So you got people in costumes and it's a five day love fest party, right? Like, It's I like to say, you know, you can come here and be anybody you want to be for five days as long as you're respectful to, you know, to your fellow, you know, people there. **** - (): So, um, and the rest is history. It still happens. We're still, we're still doing it. And, uh, even though I'm not like a huge climber is into it as I used to be, um, it's still, it's still a raging, we can, we can only allow 500 competitors, um, so that people can like. Accomplish their goals that they set out, you know, for that 24 hours, we can only let 500 people in, but it the amount of spectators that come and the people who just want to kind of party for the weekend is way beyond that. **** - (): So, yeah, it's really cool. And oddly enough, I'd never put on a bit before that. I had never even been to a rock climbing competition before I put that on. And sometimes I think that that is actually the golden ticket. Like, yeah. It's almost better to not know how things are done or they're supposed to be done when you're trying to do something that way you can be creative and kind of do, you know, something a little different. **** - (): So anyways, that was kind of the origins of my first event. And I don't consider myself. I still don't consider myself an event promoter because I have always just done them for fun. I've always had a real job. And, uh, but these have always been for fun and we've cultivated beautiful communities behind them. **** - (): And that's, that's what I'm proud of, um, in these events. [00:13:15] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah. Amazing. I'll make sure to link to Horseshoe Howell. Cause I just, I think it's a fascinating story and the pictures that come out every year. Yeah, [00:13:22] - ():  Andy Chasteen: it looks awesome. It's a real wild time. It's a real wild. [00:13:26] - ():  Craig Dalton: Is it a two person team for 24 hours or is it solo? **** - (): That's [00:13:30] - ():  Andy Chasteen: it's a two person team. Cause you have to have a belayer obviously. So the whole idea is like, but there are categories just like any other event. Like, you know, there's categories for the most amount of routes climbed by a team or an individual or the F the most amount of, uh, Uh, routes climb that are certain, you know, difficulty level or whatever the case may be. **** - (): So you, there's all these just like, um, like kind of like the Tour de France. There's a race, there's lots of races within the race. There's lots of categories within this bit, this one event that you can actually go after, which is kind of cool. [00:14:02] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. So much fun. So much fun. When did you find yourself actually moving to Bentonville and what, what attracted you to, to that area? **** - (): Uh, [00:14:12] - ():  Andy Chasteen: I'm trying to think of how many years ago that was that I, that I moved to Bentonville. I, I originally, I originally, uh, became involved in the Bentonville area through, um, I'm self employed. I'm a consultant in basically really what I I've always considered like the biker outdoor industry. And so I really started coming to Bentonville years ago, um, as a consultant for different brands in the industry. **** - (): So I, you know, I had go to Bentonville and, uh, in my sprinter van and, uh, and spend, you know, you know, Half of a month there at a time. I spent half my time there, uh, just kind of living out of the van and working for clients and doing work that way. And, uh, eventually I moved full time. Uh, we're full time in Bentonville now, but my wife and I, but, um, it started off as kind of like I was kind of, I hate to use the word squatting in Bentonville, but I was kind of squatting in my Sprinter van in Bentonville for work. **** - (): Yeah. Which is wild. Obviously [00:15:06] - ():  Craig Dalton: you started to discover some of the riding throughout the area. Yeah. Okay. Was there a certain point in time when you sort of got under, got your first gravel bike underneath you? [00:15:17] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Uh, I had been, I had been dabbling in gravel bike, you know, before I started going to Bentonville. **** - (): I was super into the gravel scene early on, um, for a lot of different reasons. Um, I, I grew up in the outdoors. Um, you know, hunting, fishing, things like that. And it just felt like gravel was more all in line with like my personality and where I came from. I, I grew up in a rural area. So even today, when I ride my gravel bike in rural areas, it feels like I'm home. **** - (): And so, um, I was, I was into the gravel scene pretty early, I guess, if you will, but not because I thought it was the next big thing is just because it kind of resonated with my culture. Yeah. Personality or my soul a little bit more. Yeah. [00:15:58] - ():  Craig Dalton: Did that, did that lead you to testing the water or some of those early [00:16:02] - ():  Andy Chasteen: events? **** - (): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, you know, I wrote an article many years ago. I'm trying to remember when, when that was, but I wrote this crazy article. I have to look it up on the date, but the, and it was just for like my personal website. It wasn't to like, you know, I wasn't a journalist or anything like that, but I wrote this article and this is when, you know, mid South was, was called, you know, the land run 100. **** - (): And the article was, was titled. Oh yeah. Um, and it just gave all the, I gave all these reasons because it was a bill. It was, it was for everyone. It was for everyone who wanted to ride a bike, no matter who you were and the, the community, the community building and like. So I, I just, it resonated with me early, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. [00:16:48] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. And imagine, you know, at that time, obviously being familiar with Mid South and all the events that were going on at that time, over the subsequent years, we started to see, I mean, for lack of a better word, a professionalization of some subset of races. Sure. Lots of community based races. I mean, still to this day, I think event organizers have to kind of navigate their lane and understand like what type of they're putting on. **** - (): But as we come to the rule of three, I'm just curious of your mindset of. Was there something missing? Was it more, Hey, Bentonville is awesome. And I know my way around and I want to show people a great day out there. Talk us through the mindset of the origin of that event. [00:17:33] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah. Um, I think, I think there's probably a combination of, of, of maybe all of those, um, The origin came, I have to say, you know, allied cycle works has been one of my clients for quite a few years. **** - (): And, uh, a guy named Sam Pickman, he's the director of product over there. He designs all, you know, all the bikes and everything. I'm a podcast guest over here. Oh, no way. Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. Sam is a super good buddy of mine. I adore him. And, uh, there's actually a connection with that too, because Sam's wife, Lauren is my co director for rule of three. **** - (): So anyways, I want to back up. Uh, we were, you know, when the Abel came out, Allied's first, first gravel bike, um, we, we were on, Sam and I were riding around, um, on the, on prototypes in Bentonville one time, and we were hopping on single track and popping in and out of single track trail and then back onto gravel and things like that, and we got this one day, boom, all this crazy idea, why don't we put on an event that is equal amounts pavement, uh, Gravel and single track, and we kind of like threw it around a little bit. **** - (): We thought it was a really cool idea. And that honestly is the origin of rule of three. And really, we sat on that idea for probably 2 or 3 years or I did the Sam's busy. He doesn't want that. He didn't want it. That's not Sam's lane, right? Sam is a brain. He's a brain guy. Um, so that was where the origin of the idea came from is riding our gravel bikes on the single track in Bentonville. **** - (): And so we sat on this idea for quite some time. Right. And this would have been early 2021. I remember specific, the specific time when I decided it was go time for rule of three, um, uh, Mid South, uh, uh, uh, Mid South again, I love you, Bobby, Mid South had just canceled, uh, their event because of COVID. And the reasoning behind is we can't bring people from all over the country here. **** - (): Um. Because, because of COVID and I thought to myself, well, you know what I could do? I could put on an event in Bentonville where it's just locals, no one has to travel and we let, you know, we have maybe 150 people show up and that is our, like dipping our toes into the event scene, right? This is my time. **** - (): This is my time. And so I like started this free Instagram account and just kind of started marketing the idea behind rule of three. Um, next thing, you know, we sold out 700 spots in the first year. I didn't, wasn't expecting that, but, um. That's the origins of Rule of Three. And quite honestly, I'd never put an event on. **** - (): I've been to a lot of them, obviously, um, and I didn't do it out of, out of a desire to do something. I didn't think it was necessarily something that was lacking in the scene. I just was like, you know what? I want to put on an event and I want to do it my way. You know what I mean? Um, and we'll do it different than everyone else. **** - (): Um, because I personally speaking, I find value in all of these different ways that gravel events are put on. I think they're all valuable. I think they're all great. Right. Whether you're putting on this beautiful, UCI feel, you know, SBT gravel, that's a polished and beautiful, or you've got unbound. That's this really long ginormous event, right? **** - (): That's like the worldwide, or you've got rule of three, which we put it on in a freaking field. We're dirty. We're grimy. We're different, right? I find value in all of those. And I think that, I think that, you know, uh, There's, there's enough of an audience now to where, uh, to where all of these different ways of putting on an event find value with, they resonate with, you know, a certain audience. **** - (): And I, so that's, that was really the reason behind it. Yeah. A [00:21:13] - ():  Craig Dalton: hundred percent. I remember when I first read about rule of three, I was like, this is my jam because I often say like my favorite events. You're going to hate your bike at least once during the event. Event organizer did it right. And when you guys kind of came out with rule of three, I was like, this is awesome. **** - (): Like it's really putting a fine point on like. You better pick your poison and I very much enjoyed hearing stories about it and hearing some of the racers talk about it because they were going through these thought processes in their head. Like I remember Ian Boswell talking about it and he's like, you know, I know I'm not going to rip single track. **** - (): So if I'm going to be competitive in this race, I need to do something on the road section and on the gravel section that's going to meaningfully displace some of the more skilled mountaineers [00:22:02] - ():  Andy Chasteen: in the bunch. And he did, he did that year, you know, he put the hammer down and dropped almost everyone on a, on a really long kind of gravel pavement sector, you know. **** - (): Um, which, you know, the routes really hard, you know, you know, it's historically speaking, we've, it's been a hundred mile route with about 10, 000 feet of climbing and about 20 miles of singer track, you know, it's, and he don't do all that single track at once. Like you're kind of in and out of stuff all day. **** - (): Right. And that's the whole idea. You gotta be on, there is no zoning out at rule of three, you zone out, that's when you're in trouble. You know, and so the whole idea was to do something that was really, really difficult. Um, but keeps you on and honest all day long. Right. Yeah. And so, um, that was kind of the idea behind it. **** - (): We throw a huge finish line party. Um, and that's one other thing that we do differently. We're in a field, right? We're in this big wide open field and you're, the finish line is basically a two track road. Last year we built a cyclocross curl course for you for the finish line. Um, and so, and what we do, what I do on purpose or what Lauren and I do, I, I should give Lauren the, Lauren does most of the work. **** - (): She's the brains behind the operation. What we do is we, we build the finish line. And this is a, this is a very important part for, for the, the brand of Rula3. Our finish line, you cross that finish line in the finish line shoot, and you are in the party. We don't shoo you out of the shoot. You, you, as you come in to cross the finish line, you're in the party. **** - (): We don't move you, you're there. You can stay there as long as you want to. We put a bag over your shoulder, and in that bag is a burrito, a beer, a coke, and a muffin. So that, so you don't have to go somewhere and pull your wallet out to find food. It's right there. We expect you to stay and have a good time with all your friends and tell stories and whatever, right? **** - (): But in order to do that, there, it also has to be safe, right? So what we, what we did is we put the last corner, um, on the course, about 10 feet from the finish line. So no one, there are no sprints across the finish. The sprint is before you get to the finish. And so that keeps it like nobody's getting ran over by a bike going too fast. **** - (): So there's, there's thought behind that because I want people to feel like when they cross that finish line, they can stay right there. And so all these little things that like doing things differently, I think sets us apart and all sets all these other events, but not just us, but everyone who does all these different things with their events that sets them apart. **** - (): I think that's cool. [00:24:35] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah, that's awesome. Since I want the listener to definitely walk away with a real. Understanding of the rule of three course, you know, you talked about these three elements of single track kind of gravel roads and road, you know, as you, as you talk through people who are coming to the event about the type of equipment they would use, I mean, is the single track entirely, or is it. **** - (): You know, it's rideable on, you know, a four C tire. I'm just curious about that. [00:25:03] - ():  Andy Chasteen: We keep it, I like to keep it as, as not gnarly as possible. That way, that way, because I don't, I don't want to limit our audience to people who are really good mountain bikers. I don't think that's fair. And so we try to keep most of the single track, uh, in, in like a, like the green blue. **** - (): Yeah, you know, realm, right? And there'll be some technical sections, but they're not long. If you need to hop off your bike for a second, that's okay. It's not that big a deal, right? We do suggest, um, nothing smaller than a 45 on tire width. Yeah. Um, and, and 50 is your go to quite honestly, just because really. **** - (): The standards kind of moving that direction anyways, but, um, you're going to have a much more pleasant day on a, on a 50 than you would say, uh, even a 45, but, um, but the course is hard, you know, you know, in, in Bentonville, we don't have these, we don't have these big long climbs like you do out, out where you're at. **** - (): So we call it death by a thousand cuts, you know, 10, 000 feet of climbing and a hundred miles when you don't have a climb longer than, you know, half a mile at the most. You know, uh, that's, that's a lot of steep, punchy climbing, you know, it's really, it wears you down over the day and like death by a thousand cuts is, is, is the name of the game. [00:26:20] - ():  Craig Dalton: It's so interesting coming from the Bay area where, you know, we have to do an 800 foot climb or 1200 foot climb. Just we go up and then we go down. There's not a lot of flat rule stuff. I personally, I have a really hard time transitioning to the Bentonville type hills because as you said, they just. You might push over the first one and the second one, and then they start to add up, add up, add up. **** - (): And it hits me a lot differently as a cyclist than the long climbs that I'm used to out [00:26:48] - ():  Andy Chasteen: here. Yeah. It's interesting. Uh, it's an interesting, uh, difference. Like I don't, I don't adjust well to the climbs that you do because of where I live too, you know, so I'm used to, I'm used to 20 seconds at, you know, whatever. **** - (): 500 Watts or like something above threshold or something. Right. So I guess it's just kind of, you're used to where you're at. Right. So, um, but yeah, it's a, it's a very unique course and we've, we've certainly started out at a, a lot of kind of B road sections, um, which can be in general, even more technical than some of the single track too. **** - (): Yeah. So we, we changed the course every year, every single year. It's different. I [00:27:27] - ():  Craig Dalton: think that, that underscores how much terrain you have access to, to, which is exciting. [00:27:32] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah. I mean, we change it up. Uh, Drastically every year. It feels completely different every year, which is cool. And you're like, you said the, the, you know, our, uh, our canvas is big. **** - (): So it's, it's not hard to do that, which is a huge blessing for us. For sure. [00:27:49] - ():  Craig Dalton: The other incredibly unique thing about this event is the entry fee. Can you talk about that? Yeah. [00:27:56] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah. Um. This is just kind of another part of the, of our ethos is our brand. Like we, and it's not just the entropy and it also, it goes back to what I said, uh, you know, a few minutes ago, I don't do this for my job. **** - (): This is not my day job. I'm doing this. I do this cause I want to, cause it's fun. Lauren and I both do it because it's important to us to put on our, our goal is, uh, not to make money on this. I mean, I know that sounds counterintuitive, but our goal is to put on the best event. Possible for the people that come up that show. **** - (): And so, um, our entry fee's, 85 bucks, um, and I believe we began, I think our first year it was 65 and now it's 85. And we'll never go over the amount of miles that the event is, is what, is basically That's the goal. Yeah. I think what, what I've committed to, and I, and I like to commit that in public 'cause it keeps me accountable. **** - (): One other, one other thing that we do is we do not. Take or accept cash from sponsors. We want a sponsor to come to our event and take that cash that they would have given us and use it to add value to the participants, right? The people that are there. Um, I, I'm a fallible human. And so if you were to give me just, I'm just saying personally, me, if you're a sponsor, you're going to give me, let's say whatever, 10, 000 bucks to be a sponsor of rule of three, guess what I'm do probably going to pocket 5, 000 of that and then put 5, 000, the rest other 5, 000 into making the event better for the people. **** - (): So. What I do to hold myself accountable is I just don't take cash at all. I just say, if you want to sponsor the event, then you're going to have to, you're going to have to come and add some sort of value to the event. And, and it's, and we don't make rules in this, which, which is cool. Like someone came last year and cooked. **** - (): Bacon the out at an aid station the whole day. Um, so there's all these crazy ideas that we encourage the sponsors to come and do, uh, aid stations, uh, parties at the finish line. Somebody's making margaritas in one of their tents or whatever. Specialized comes and they give they do post finish. They do finish line photos when you're all 30 and gross. **** - (): And yeah, and those are free. You get those for free. We don't charge. There's no charge for those. Um, and we have. Yeah. What I like to call the best swag bag in the, in the biz, like, um, we give every competitor to not one water bottle too, because everybody likes a matching water bottle. Right? So that's right. **** - (): We do. Yeah, we do water bottles. We, you know, you get a tea, you get a bandana, you get a, uh, you get an ass saver, you get, you know, you get a stainless steel pint last year. Uh, mirror gave everybody's, uh, insulated, uh, Bottles that were logoed and like, so we, I like, I like to have two or $300 worth of cool stuff that people will actually use Yeah. **** - (): In the bag that they, that they get at pack and pickup. So for us it's really about creating value and creating a real good time of the at, you know, at, at the event. And, uh, and that's what we're committed to doing. So that's, I guess, a few of the ways that we like to kind of do things different. Right. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm lucky I'm blessed that, um, I don't. **** - (): I don't put this event on for my living if I'm just being honest. [00:31:15] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah. It changes the dynamic entirely, I think, because I mean, it's such a, it's such a difficult business to be in the event business. It [00:31:23] - ():  Andy Chasteen: is. It is. That's right. I can make every decision I make is. Is not attached to the bottom line. And I, I, I know that other events aren't like that and I, I applaud them. **** - (): I think every other event out there, I've been to almost, not all of them, but a lot of them. And almost all of them. And I will go to them this year too. 'cause I think they're amazing, but we just wanna do things different at rule three. Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:47] - ():  Craig Dalton: And as you said, there's room quite simple. There's room for it all. **** - (): A [00:31:51] - ():  Andy Chasteen: thousand percent room for it [00:31:52] - ():  Craig Dalton: all. Yeah. I think you mentioned this, but I wanted to make sure the listener, uh, has this as a takeaway that the it's a hundred mile event, but it's, I think you have a, uh, additional distance this year. Is that right? [00:32:04] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah, we actually, we, we also offer a 50 mile event. Um, so that's something that like we like to, we like to say, if you, if you don't think that you can finish the, well, you know, this isn't your typical gravel race, it takes or gravel event. **** - (): I'll hate calling it a race for some reason that doesn't sit well for me. Um, if. You know, this is not 100 mile gravel event. This will take you a lot longer than you would. It would normally take you to do a gravel event because of that 20 miles a single track. Yeah, you don't think that you can finish something like that and say 10 to 12 hours. **** - (): We always we like, just we respectfully say you should dip your toes in the 50 miler. And then once you've got that under your belt, hit that next one, right? And so we've got the 50, we've got the 100, and this year we're actually adding the 200. Um, which will be such, it's going to be a sick route. And we're only opening it to a hundred people. **** - (): Because it's, you know, you know, my, my thoughts are ultra distance. If it's not already here, it's the future. People, you know, I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of myself. I've done how many hundred mile events. And. Where I, while I still love them, sometimes I think to myself, well, what's next? Right. I think people are thinking in, I think a lot of people are thinking, what's next for me? **** - (): I've done 10 hundred mile gravel events. What's my next step? Well, a 200 mile is probably your next step. And I know that unbound is a 200 miler, but. This isn't unbound. This is, you know, this is 200 miles with 30 plus miles of single track at, you know, and you're circumnavigating this ginormous lake out east of Bentonville. **** - (): There's a lot of climbing and it's way out in the middle of nowhere. It's an adventure. Yeah. So we're adding that on this year. Yeah. [00:33:45] - ():  Craig Dalton: Given, given the, obviously the duration it takes to ride the single track about 100 and the added single track in the 200, how long of an event are you thinking that's going to be for, I mean, I don't know how to put it in perspective for people from the first to last, but what's the window of time you're thinking? [00:34:03] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Well, we're going to, we'll start the event the day before. So we'll start, we'll start the 200 miler on Friday afternoon, and it'll start from where packet pickup is basically. Um, in town and we're, we're, we're making a 30 hour cutoff and you'll have to wear a spot tracker on your, just like you would any other ultra distance event. **** - (): Right? So yeah, it really is. It's, it's unsupported. It's fully self supported. We ain't coming to pick you up. So it's, it's a different adventure, but I, I do, I personally believe if it's not already here, it is the future of, of, uh, you know, the gravel experience, at least part of the future. Yeah. [00:34:40] - ():  Craig Dalton: I mean, I think to your point, just about the different flavors of events that exist, even in that like a narrow hundred mile mindset. **** - (): Now you're seeing it go both directions, which is pretty natural. I mean, I think again, like sometimes. Riding 100 is not enough should be for most people. Sometimes [00:34:58] - ():  Andy Chasteen: it's not. Yeah. And we, we, I had a question. I had someone asked me the other day. Are you ever considered making doing like a 20 miler because your events not that approachable for maybe a newer person. **** - (): And I was just honest. And I said, no, we're not going to. But what we do, what we do offer is we offer training rides. Um, yeah. In Bentonville, for no charge, they're free. We just did what we call the Rule of 399 last weekend, which we offered a 22 miler route. For people who wanted to see what it's like, you get to practice on the single track. **** - (): You get to see that, wow, this is a lot harder than a 22 mile gravel ride, right? It takes a lot longer. It's harder to do. It takes a little bit more technical skill. So we, we are, we're trying to train up newer people to at least have the opportunity to maybe hit that 50 miler one day. I don't think that we'll ever have a, a distance that's shorter than that, but we do that outside of our rule of three events, like our rule of three and nine, we do training events and things like that to give people that approach approachable mindset of maybe I can do the 50, you know what I mean? [00:36:02] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah. Super interesting. And that goes back to where we were talking about, which is that great community of cyclists and cycling events that's growing up and around Bentonville. It sounds like there's plenty of opportunity and exposure. For people to all these great events that are going on and as they sort of start to put a toe in the water, you're not the only person who's told me there's, you know, great group ride events quite regularly out in Bentonville for people to get a understanding what gravel cycling [00:36:30] - ():  Andy Chasteen: is all about. **** - (): There are, there's a lot of great events that happen in Bentonville. It, it seems like they're, they're nonstop actually. But, um, and they're amazing. I love to go to all of them. Um, you know, Big Sugar's a big deal, you know? Um, and so, you know, and there's, there's many more that's not, they're not the only one, but there's the, the opportunity, opportunities are endless. **** - (): You know, in our neck of the woods, [00:36:54] - ():  Craig Dalton: if you will, when does rule of three happen each year? [00:36:59] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Uh, we have we're on the same weekend every year. So, uh, I like to You know, it happens on may 18th, but I like to say that I think that's may 18th saturday might be the I think it's 18th. Um, but I like to say that rule of three is like May 16th through the 19th because we got to shake out rides. **** - (): We've got, you know, uh, we got, uh, breakfast on Sunday morning. Uh, you know, uh, after the event, we've got all kinds of things going on all weekend. So I hate to like, pin it down. Like, I'm like, come early, stay late, bring your mountain bike to, you know, let's party, you know? So, uh, but yeah, it's on the 18th this year. **** - (): Yeah. And we like, let's, I mean, yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna shout out to like, I think Gravel Locos is that weekend. I think, uh, I think Pete's Pizza Pater is that weekend. And, you know, I've talked to, I've talked to all those guys and I'm like, they're, you know, everybody's kind of like, are you guys, are we, are we okay with all this? **** - (): And I'm like. We're all in different parts of the country. The audience is humongous. Who cares? You're going to fill up, you're going to fill up, we're going to fill up. Let's all be okay with this. There's no problem with us overlapping dates. I've had zero problems with that. Yeah, [00:38:15] - ():  Craig Dalton: I'm sure. How much writer capacity do you have for this year? [00:38:20] - ():  Andy Chasteen: We, we, uh, we limited at 1600 people, and there's a reason behind that. I think we could probably sell 3, 000 spots, but I don't want to. I want someone who crosses that finish line to look over our after party, right? And feel like they know everyone there. They don't have to know everyone there, but I want them to feel like they do. **** - (): And so, um, I'm not interested in, uh, you know, having it. Be bigger than that. So that's kind of, that's what we've been at for, this will be our third year that we've been at, at 15, 1600 people. And I like that number. It's, it's nice for us. Um, it helps, it helps our logistics and it just helps people have a better experience too. **** - (): And so that's probably what we'll stick at. [00:39:04] - ():  Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's funny. I was having a totally unrelated conversation in my day job, just about a business I used to run and this opportunity we had to basically double the business. But I recognize that doubling the business was going to ruin my life. It was going to be miserable. **** - (): You know, we'd have to run two shifts in a factory. No one would be happy. I couldn't imagine it being the same thing. And so it's great for you. It's great to hear it from your words as well. Just like, this is a great size for us where you're confident that we can deliver an exceptional experience to 1600 people and why deliver a subpar experience to 3000 people. [00:39:45] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Yeah. And part of that is because this isn't my real job, you know, um, you know, you let three, 4, 000 people in that becomes your real job and I don't want it to be, I like my real job. [00:39:59] - ():  Craig Dalton: Um, when does anyone's registration open? [00:40:03] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Registration opens, uh, February 5th. So what is that like a few days from now? Yeah. **** - (): Um, and that's okay. If that's okay. If you're like, if, if this is coming out after that, it's not a big deal. I, we have always sold out in like a minute or two anyway. So it's, it's, I just love getting on here. And if, if, if I'm being completely honest. The legacy that I would love to leave behind with Rule of Three is not the event. **** - (): The, the legacy I would like to leave behind is that everyone goes out and rides these types of, does these types of rides where they live, no matter where they live. Yeah. I, I call 'em rule of three rides. You know what I mean? That's a legacy I wanna leave. Like I think that this is the funnest form of riding a bike that I've ever experienced, even just bar none. **** - (): And, uh, and I would, I would be happy over the moon if everyone, uh, out there rode, did these kind of rides where they lived. So, yeah, that's a legacy we really wanna leave behind. So, [00:41:04] - ():  Craig Dalton: I, I love it, Andy. I'm just going to shut up. If you had a microphone, I would have just allowed you to drop it and we would have cut the cut the show right there. **** - (): But I do want to just conclude by saying thank you for the energy you're putting into the sport, your energy into the community there. We'll definitely put, you know, links to rule of three because whether it's this year or next year, love for more people to go and get exposed to that great Bentonville riding and the experience you just described to us. [00:41:33] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Thank you. It was, it's, I've, I'm serious. I've listened to your podcast for a long time. How long, how long have you been doing this now? God, I think it's [00:41:39] - ():  Craig Dalton: five years. [00:41:41] - ():  Andy Chasteen: I was going to say, I didn't want to speak out and say, like, I've been listening to you for three years and you've only been around for two, but cause I, I did, I, you know, you lose track of time. **** - (): Yeah. I'm, I'm almost positive. I've been listening to you since the beginning. So, uh, very well done. I love listening to your stuff. It's, I like the variety, like you're always speaking to interesting people about all these different interests topics. So keep it up. It's awesome. Thank you. I appreciate [00:42:05] - ():  Craig Dalton: that Andy. **** - (): Right on. Thanks for spending some time with us, man. [00:42:09] - ():  Andy Chasteen: Thanks man. Thank you.      

Chip Hawkins is the founder and co-CEO of Wahoo Fitness. He shares his insights on how he sets and chases down goals to get you geared up for the new year!

Ian Boswell, aka Boz, spent several years racing at the highest level in the UCI World Tour with the likes of Bradly Wiggins, Chris Froome and Garaint Thomas on Team Sky. After nearly a decade in Europe, he made the decision to retire from road racing, move to rural Vermont and settle in with his young family. He kept a foot in the door of cycling and started a podcast: Breakfast with Boz as well as working at Wahoo Fitness, representing the company at gravel race expos around the U.S. and at one point, decided to bring his bike and line up in the event - and his legs did not fail him. In 2021 he and Laurens Ten Dam raced into Emporia Kansas at Unbound and Boz found himself standing on the top step of the podium. He now enjoys a balanced life racing in the events he chooses, representing Wahoo, publishing his podcast and enjoying time with his family in Vermont. One of the races he enjoys, and helped grow, is Gravel Locos. Fabian Sarralta, Director of that race, was a guest on Bike Talk with Dave (Episode 57) so I was curious what Boz's connection was with the Hico, Texas race. In this episode we talk about Ian's years at Team Sky and Katusha, his retirement from road racing and transition into the U.S. gravel scene. Follow Ian on Instagram and Facebook and tune into his weekly podcast: Breakfast with Boz. Consider supporting Bike Talk with Dave by rating, reviewing and sharing on your favorite podcast platform. We'd invite you to support the show financially at www.buymeacoffee.com or on Venmo @David-Mable. You'll receive a Bike Talk with Dave sticker! Bikeiowa.com is the online host of Bike Talk with Dave. Get your event listed on the extensive ride and race calendar for free! Create an account and add and edit your event to reach thousands of cyclists. Register for the core4 before Oct. 2 and get a 24% discount, and leave no surface untouched. New distances in 24 include a 20, 40, 60 or 100-mile option. Register at www.core4.bike Follow Bike Talk with Dave on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/biketalkwithdave/ and Facebook so you don't miss any of the fun, and you can now find every episode on your computer at www.biketalk.bike. And now available on YouTube on the Bike Talk with Dave YouTube channel!And if you need any digital media work: Photography, videography and editing, podcast production and editing, look no further than Mable Media. Connect at www.mablemedia.net to help grow your brand and connect with your audience! And remember, if you act fast, you can order your own Bike Talk with Dave stocking cap by sending a DM to Dave on instagram or facebook!

Meet American Magic, the American yacht racing team gearing up for the 37th America's Cup. They've called upon some world-class cyclists to up their game and go for gold in this year's event!

In this special episode of The Cycling Podcast, as a festive treat, we serve up a Christmas selection box of highlights from the 2023 men's Grand Tours. Proceeding in chronological order, we journey back in time first to May and the Giro d'Italia, where Daniel Friebe and Brian Nygaard saw lots of rain, a race that took its time to catch light, then a finale for the ages.  Next, Lionel Birnie took over at the steering wheel for the Tour de France - variously assisted and accompanied by François Thomazeau, Mitch Docker, Lizzy Banks, Ian Boswell and Richard Abraham.  Finally, it was on to Spain and the Vuelta - where Daniel and an assortment of familiar guests saw Jumbo-Visma continue their quest to make history by winning all three Grand Tours in a single season. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). NordVPN This episode is supported by NordVPN. Ensure your security online with a subscription today. Listeners will get an exclusive NordVPN deal at nordvpn.com/tcp   Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Vuelta a España wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

In this special, end-of-year episode of The Cycling Podcast, Daniel Friebe is joined by a star-studded ensemble of regular guests to relive and debate some of the highlights of the 2023 road season. Mitch Docker, François Thomazeau, Larry Warbasse, Richard Abraham (fortunate to avoid inclusion in the episode artwork!), Ian Boswell, Rob Hatch and a certain Italian newshound all drop in to share in the festive fun - and give their nominations for the Ride of 2023, Person of 2023, Beef of 2023 and other accolades. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). NordVPN This episode is supported by NordVPN. Ensure your security online with a subscription today. Listeners will get an exclusive NordVPN deal at nordvpn.com/tcp   Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Vuelta a España wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

Lachlan Morton got his start on the road, but he is best known his ultra-distance cycling events and challenges. This summer, he completed the 2,670-mile Tour Divide route in a record-breaking time of 12 days, 12 hours, and 21 minutes.

While Mexico is known for its vibrant culture and tasty food, its not often thought of as a cycling destination. Ian goes south of the border to explore the riding scene and chat with newfound friends along the way.

In this week's regular episode of The Cycling Podcast, Daniel Friebe is joined by Brian Nygaard and Ian Boswell - both of them formerly of Team Sky as a press chief and rider respectively - as we chew over the shock news that Deputy Team Principal Rod Ellingworth is to leave the British outfit.  We analyse Ellingworth's legacy and ask where the team goes next, having lost one of their founding fathers. Are they on the brink of a bright new era or contemplating a crisis of identity?  There's also discussion of the news last week that GCN+ and the GCN App are to close - in addition to the usual round-up of the latest headlines.  The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). Babbel This episode is supported by Babbel - language learning that works. Babbel is offering listeners six months free with the purchase of a six month subscription.  Visit babbel.com/play and use the promo code CYCLING. LinkedIn Jobs This episode supported by LinkedIn Jobs. Post your job for free at linkedin.com/cycle. Terms and conditions apply. Nord VPN This episode is supported by Nord VPN who are offering listeners a bonus four months free with any plan. Visit nordvpn.com/tcp to get the extra four months.  Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Vuelta a España wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

With winter fast approaching, we're back for episode four in our training series with Wahoo Fitness. How can you make the most of your training time? Should you be doing base training or high-intensity intervals? BikeRadar's George Scott sits down with Wahoo's principal sports scientist, Mac Cassin, and WorldTour pro-turned-gravel racer, Ian Boswell, to find out more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jim Walmsley is a professional ultra trail runner and the first American male to win the Ultra Trail du Mont Blanc.

Alexey Vermeulen is a professional gravel cyclist and one of the founding members of the From the Ground Up organization.

Lucy Charles-Barclay is a British professional triathlete with some impressive achievements under her belt, including IRONMAN 70.3 World Champion and four-time runner-up at the IRONMAN World Championship. She is joined by her husband Reece, a former pro triathlete, who has temporarily put his racing career on hold to support Lucy in her quest to conquer Kona.

Dennis Connors is a stay-at-home Dad, combat veteran, traumatic brain injury (TBI) and stroke survivor, para-athlete, super Husband, and amateur chef who loves coffee and modern cuisine.

Valtteri Bottas, a renowned Formula 1 driver, has been incorporating cycling into his training regimen for quite some time. Most recently, he has embraced gravel racing and started his own event in Lahti, Finland.

Tom Whalley, producer of Breakfast with Boz, takes over the mic this week and covers the first Super Worlds in Scotland

Go inside the Tour de France Femmes with audio diaries from Alice Barnes of Human Powered Health, Babette van der Wolf of Lifeplus Wahoo, and Magdeleine Valliers of EF Education-Tibco-SVB.

Join Lionel Birnie, Ian Boswell and Lizzy Banks in Saint-Gervais-Mont Blanc as they recap stage 15 of the Tour de France. There'll be French flavour from François, we'll see who is outside the team bus, and hear from the voice of Radio Tour Sebastian Piquet and analyse the action. Then we'll review yesterday's dinner and look ahead to tomorrow's stage. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). NordVPN This episode is supported by NordVPN. Ensure your security online with a subscription today. Listeners will get an exclusive NordVPN deal at nordvpn.com/tcp   Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Tour de France wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

Join Lionel Birnie, Ian Boswell and Lizzy Banks in Morzine as they recap stage 14 of the Tour de France. There'll be French flavour from François, we'll see who is outside the team bus, and hear from the voice of Radio Tour Sebastian Piquet and analyse the action. Then we'll review yesterday's dinner and look ahead to tomorrow's stage. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Tour de France wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

Join Lionel Birnie and Ian Boswell in Anglefort as they recap stage 13 of the Tour de France. There'll be French flavour from François, we'll see who is outside the team bus, and hear from the voice of Radio Tour Sebastian Piquet and analyse the action. Then we'll review yesterday's dinner and look ahead to tomorrow's stage. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Tour de France wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

Join Lionel Birnie and Ian Boswell in Belleville-en-Beaujolais as they recap stage 12 of the Tour de France. There'll be French flavour from François, we'll see who is outside the team bus, catch up with Jayco-Alula rider Luke Durbridge, hear from the voice of Radio Tour Sebastian Piquet and analyse the action. Then we'll review yesterday's dinner and look ahead to tomorrow's stage. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Tour de France wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

Mitch Docker is the creator of the Life in the Peloton podcast and a former World Tour pro cyclist. Mitch raced the biggies including the Giro and Vuelta and rode for legendary squads including EF, Green Edge and Skil Shimano. He was best known as a leadout man, classics rider and road captain. He's equally well known for his highly entertaining storytelling, the highest-volume mullet the sport has seen since Laurent Brochard and a mustache a California Highway Patrolman would envy. I love Mitch's podcast and I'm grateful to Peacham, Vermont's proudest son, Ian Boswell for connecting us to make this interview happen. You may have heard Mitch talk about cycling style, culture and racing for hundreds of hours on his pod and others, but this chat has loads of new material and surprising revelations. Cape Epic, Mitch's insider experience as a leadout man, dad life, the allure of gravel, the importance of psychological training and preparation, leadership lessons and things Mitch learned in the World Tour that have helped him as an entrepreneur, areas where he has had to work hard in life after pro cycling and much more. It's all here in this unprecedented interview. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how doing hard things is fun and builds stronger humans. Sharing is caring, please rate this show 5 stars wherever you listen, hit subscribe and tell your mom about it.  You can suggest guests and send me your great ideas @hardwaypod on social and at choosethehardway@gmail.com. Find Life in the Peloton everywhere you listen and at lifeinthepeloton.com and find Mitch on Instagram @mitchbowen.   Mitch Docker Instagram Life in the Peloton Website | PodcastWatch on YouTube Sign up for the Hard Way Newsletter - - - - - - - - - -  Choose The Hard Way Website | Instagram Andrew Vontz LinkedIn | Instagram Subscribe: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher

Join Lionel Birnie, Mitch Docker and Ian Boswell in Moulins as they recap stage 11 of the Tour de France. There'll be French flavour from François, we'll see who is outside the team bus, catch up with Jayco-Alula rider Luke Durbridge, hear from the voice of Radio Tour Sebastian Piquet and analyse the action. Then we'll review yesterday's dinner and look ahead to tomorrow's stage. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Tour de France wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

Join Lionel Birnie, Mitch Docker and Ian Boswell in Issoire as they recap stage ten of the Tour de France. There'll be French flavour from François, we'll see who is outside the team bus, catch up with Jayco-Alula rider Luke Durbridge, hear from the voice of Radio Tour Sebastian Piquet and analyse the action. Then we'll review yesterday's dinner and look ahead to tomorrow's stage. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. Hammerhead This episode is supported by the Hammerhead Karoo 2, the most advanced GPS cycle computer with the exclusive Climber feature giving you more data at your fingertips. Listeners can get a free heart-rate monitor with the purchase of a Hammerhead Karoo 2 at hammerhead.io with the promo code CYCLE MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Tour de France wine selection is available now at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

This is our XL Tour de France preview with Lionel Birnie, Daniel Friebe and François Thomazeau – a bumper episode looking ahead to the race, which starts on Saturday. A few days before the grand départ, as the team line-ups and new jerseys are unveiled we look ahead to see what's in store at the biggest race in the world. It's shaping up to be a clash between defending champion Jonas Vingegaard and Tadej Pogačar – who have won the last three editions between them – but is there more to the race for the yellow jersey than that? We weigh up the sprinters and the relatively few opportunities for them to shine and ask the big question – can Mark Cavendish win his 35th stage and claim the outright record? Our Tour de France logo this year features the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao and the silhouette of the Puy de Dôme, which the Tour will visit for the first time in 35 years. We also hear from Mitch Docker, Ian Boswell and Richard Abraham, who will be joining the podcast team at various points through the Tour. The Cycling Podcast's daily coverage starts on Saturday evening, after stage one, but we are continuing our build-up by kicking off our Kilometre 0 series early. To mark the 10th anniversary of The Cycling Podcast we have created a mini series for Friends of the Podcast called The 100th Tour, 10 years On. It's the story of the 2013 Tour as told by the podcast and it will be released daily as we build up to the start of this year's race in Bilbao. The Cycling Podcast is supported by Science in Sport. Follow us on social media: Twitter @cycling_podcast Instagram @thecyclingpodcast The 11.01 Cappuccino Our regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am). GCN+ The Tour de France will be live and uninterrupted with GCN's ad-free coverage so what better time to take out a subscription than at the start of the season's first grand tour. Join Rob Hatch, Carlton Kirby, Sean Kelly, Orla Chennaoui, Dan Lloyd, Adam Blythe and the rest of the team from Saturday. Go to globalcyclingnetwork.com or download the GCN app on your device to make sure you never miss a moment. All UK listeners can save 15% on an annual subscription at gcn.eu/cycling15 Science in Sport The Cycling Podcast has been supported since 2016 by Science In Sport. World leading experts in endurance nutrition. Go to scienceinsport.com to see the whole range. MAAP The Cycling Podcast x MAAP collection is available now. Go to maap.cc to see the full MAAP range. D Vine Cellars The 2023 Tour de France wine selection is coming soon at dvinecellars.com Friends of the Podcast Sign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to more than 60 exclusive episodes. The Cycling Podcast is on Strava The Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

This week, your hosts Craig Dalton and Randall Jacobs reconnect with the gravel cycling world and their personal lives, sharing insights and experiences from Sea Otter to UNBOUND. Dive into this episode and join the guys as they discuss the latest from Logos Components, Enduro Bearings, ENVE and a little bit of gravel beef. Links from Episode: Made Bike Show  Thesis Bike (Code: 'Community500')  Enduro Bearings Whitepaper  Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week, I'm going to be joined by my co-host Randall Jacobs for a long overdue catch up. And an episode of in the dirt. We're going to jump into, what's been going on in the world of gravel cycling and in our own lives. With that said here's Randall. [00:00:44]Craig Dalton (host): Hey Randall, how you doing? [00:00:46]Randall R. Jacobs: Doing well. Good to see you, Craig. It's been a bit since [00:00:48]Craig Dalton (host): I know I feel like we keep just not finding time to do these catch up calls, so we've got like months of stuff to cover, but I think we'll keep it brief cuz I know we're both pretty busy today. [00:01:01]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, and I'll, I'll take responsibility for Ave for not being so available. Um, I've been building largely just like rebuilding a house. Uh, so that's, uh, a pretty big undertaking and, uh, having to learn building science and all these things myself along the way to make sure it's done right. So, uh, very joyful task, but also hasn't left a lot of bandwidth. [00:01:24]Craig Dalton (host): And for anybody catching the video, we're looking in the backdrop at some of Randall's cabin in Kingston, New York. [00:01:33]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, gutted the upstairs so that I could move into it while I renovate the rest of it. So definitely a labor of love, but uh, also very, uh, very all encompassing. [00:01:44]Craig Dalton (host): Nice. Well, it's exciting. I can't wait to be sort of part of the journey in the background as I see your property evolve, and I know how committed you are to that community. [00:01:53]Randall R. Jacobs: We'll have to have you out to ride, uh, once it's a little bit further along. I know that you sometimes make trips to New York and, uh, the riding here in the Kingston area and the broader Hudson Valley is, uh, fantastic. In fact, I did a ride last night with some folks, uh, along the Walkhill, uh, bike path up to the area around the Mohawk Preserve. It was a night ride. And we were up there, uh, on this big, uh, hilltop meadow at about 11 o'clock for the full moon, and it was absolutely fantastic. Riding the dark is delightful and just the area is beautiful. [00:02:28]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Writing in general sounds delightful and I have to be honest, it hasn't been something that I've been doing a ton of. Unfortunately, I've had, I feel like a string of. Setbacks this year. It's just been one of those years that as much as I've been eager to ride my bike, timing health and a bunch of other things haven't allowed me to do so. So I feel sort of a little bit anxious about where I'm at just cause I wanna be riding more. But uh, also trying to just give myself the grace to know that, you know, it's just not in the cards at the moment and it'll come back around for me. [00:03:04]Randall R. Jacobs: Well, I, I also have to confess on my end, this was this ride I just mentioned, with the exception of having taken my niece and nephews out a couple of times on several milers was my first real ride of the year. Uh, I've been so swept up in other things. Plus I had had, you know, some, some issues with like, pain in my hands and feet and so on that I had been dealing with it. I just hadn't been riding at all. And, uh, There's an ebb and flow in the relationship with the bike. That is okay, even if you have a podcast and have, have built a company in the industry and so on. Um, [00:03:38]Craig Dalton (host): was just gonna announce if we, [00:03:40]Randall R. Jacobs: the right thing. [00:03:41]Craig Dalton (host): I was just gonna ask if we fully discredited this podcast in the first five minutes. [00:03:47]Randall R. Jacobs: I mean, the, the, the bike for me was always a jumping off point and or an excuse for having interesting conversations about other topics. Anyone who's, uh, You know, enjoyed any of the episodes I've done has found that like, even if say we're nerding about bicycle technology, it's actually just a conversation about technology and entrepreneurship. Or if we're talking about sports psychology, it's actually just a conversation about the human experience. So I think, I think we are credible amongst the types of people who gravitate to this particular, uh, corner of the cycling media landscape, I suppose. [00:04:23]Craig Dalton (host): Fair enough. We did, however, in April visit the spectacle of all spectacles called Sea Otter, where we got to hang face-to-face at least for a day. I just did a day trip down there. But I know you spent the entire weekend down there. Any sort of thoughts from what you saw that will inform the listener for the year as the new trends or anything going on? [00:04:46]Randall R. Jacobs: Honestly, I didn't see a lot that excited me. Um, and you know, looking at the press coverage, none of, you know, there wasn't much out there that was found by others either. Um, the, we've talked about, you know, Sam's release of their transmission. So, um, there were a lot of conversations in the background about the implications of that for competition within the bike industry, both with, you know, people in the media and. At brands, uh, component brands and, and bike brands and so on. But otherwise, I mean, it was a great festival. The, the vibe was great. It was, uh, very well attended. Uh, lots of racers, lots of activities, lots of people out and about. Uh, so as far as that is concerned, it was a big success. But nothing major from a technology standpoint that I found or a trend standpoint. [00:05:36]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I wonder if someone who's sort of better at the history of the cycling industry than I would sort of point to other, other sort of moments in time, whether it's been with mountain biking or other sectors of the sport where you just sort of plateau, where you've, you've sort of, you've got to a point where a lot of the best ideas have been flushed out. Because I feel like if you're coming in to build a bike today, and I'll point to my episode with Envy, with their MOG gravel bike, it's just straight down the center. Like you can't point out anything wrong with that bike. It's gonna do everything great. It's got all the sort of modern, um, tire clearance features that we've been talking about for years, and now there's just sort this sort of. Mainline point where you can enter the, the, the, the bike gravel bike market and produce something that's really gonna do the job. [00:06:30]Randall R. Jacobs: If anything, I think that the, the trends that would, that was clearly in play is that gravel is now very mature. And you know, our first conversation when I was a guest on this podcast, It was, you know, I, I recall mentioning like gravel bikes are essentially the all-purpose bikes that we should have been making for normal people all along. And, uh, that's kind of played itself out. You know, there's quite a few people who have one bike for nearly everything and it's their gravel bike, and there are lots of gravel rides or gravel races. Um, I, uh, Sam, uh, Sam Jackson, my colleague at, at, uh, thesis and Logos and I were volunteering for, uh, enduros, uh, media ride. And, uh, that was also a mix of road and gravel and people were on gravel bikes with, you know, even if they had oversized road tires on some of them, in some of the cases. Uh, so I think the trend towards having bikes that are more versatile is, is the big thing. And, and gravel is no longer insurgent. Gravel is very much central in the industry, and if anything, road is more peripheral. [00:07:35]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, agreed. Like I look around Mill Valley on the weekends when I see packs and packs of riders riding on the road, and sometimes I do a double take because more often than not, I feel like half the kind of casual pelotons are gravel bikes with just narrower tires on them than they are road bikes these days, which. Obviously makes a ton of sense. From what, what we've been saying the last couple years on this podcast, you mentioned you were hanging out with the Enduro gang, and I know your wheels were being displayed at the booth. It sounds like after that conversation you had with their founder, Matt on the podcast last year, you've really developed a pretty deep relationship with that team. [00:08:14]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, so, you know, it's funny, like Matt and I had a delightful conversation that we've recorded and then we kept going for about an hour and a half after we finished recording. Just, uh, just nerding out about, uh, you know, different concepts that him and I have, have played with over the years. So, uh, I guess nothing that I can, I can reveal in a public forum, but that might bear some fruit in the future. Uh, and then sometime after I got, uh, a contact from, uh, Rick Sutton, who Rick Sutton for tho has been on the pod. Um, he, I think he was representing, uh, The handlebar company he was [00:08:52]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Coefficient. [00:08:53]Randall R. Jacobs: Yep. [00:08:54]Craig Dalton (host): The handlebar company. Yep. [00:08:55]Randall R. Jacobs: but Rick's also the founder of Sea Otter and, um, is now working with Enduro, helping with their, um, you know, marketing strategy and messaging and so on. And so he reached out and, uh, we, you know, set up a collaboration where, you know, we have a, a product that we think is based on this, kind of the same sorts of principles that. Particularly their XD 15 product is, is ceramic. Hybrid product is based on, which is having something that performs at a high level yes. But that is highly durable and serviceable. Uh, and so, so yeah, that's been a collaboration that has been an absolute delight. And um, you know, it's also been a joy to kind of work with that team. So spent a lot of time at Rick's house, uh, just outside of Sea Otter, uh, in Monterey, uh, uh, volunteering with the group rides and the other events that they were hosting there, uh, for their kind of, you know, media and press, uh, efforts and so on. [00:09:56]Craig Dalton (host): Nice. Nice. And so, I mean, are you using some of the products in your logos, components, wheels now? [00:10:03]Randall R. Jacobs: exclusively. And in fact, we've used them exclusively in our wheels from day one. Uh, so as soon as we started making our own hubs, we were doing Enduro bearings. Uh, so this is predates, uh, talking to Matt. I reached out to Matt because I liked his bearings, uh, and found out that actually he is a, a nerd, uh, a kindred spirit and his nerdy, [00:10:25]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. [00:10:26]Randall R. Jacobs: uh, by the way, that is an episode. If any, if any listeners haven't heard it, that I'd strongly recommend, uh, Matt is a. Is really just a, uh, a he delights in the engineering, but also the history of the industry and so on, and so as a deep amount of knowledge about the evolution of the bicycle and where technology seen in bike have played roles in other industries, particularly around Barings. Interestingly, [00:10:50]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, it was a super interesting episode and. Actually really cool to see Matt kind of get out there. I don't know whether it's the collaboration with Rick, but Enduro seems to be doing group rides. I know they did one up here in Marin out of Fairfax that I did. I was invited to one in Boulder, which sadly I could not attend, but just great to see Matt getting out there. As you said, he's been around the industry. The whole Enduro story is pretty interesting, and just the commitment to quality and the, the way they manufacture things, I think is worth knowing and worth listening to. And regardless of whether you buy their product or someone else's, I think if you're interested in, in the technology that goes behind Barings and what you should be thinking about, that's a great episode to get smart with. [00:11:35]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Um, there's also, they released at Sea Otter a white paper, which, um, I, I will grab so that we can put it in the show notes. Definitely worth a read. And what I love, uh, again, about Matt and, and their approach is just very straight shooting. Like, this is how it is, this is how our products perform. Um, this is, you know, this product that we have will perform at this level, this other product and how it compares in the ecosystem. Ver uh, Compared to, you know, verifiable test results, uh, that have, you know, clearly spelled out protocols and so on, and. You know, as an example, you know, we talk about this in the episode, uh, ceramic bearings are not something that you should really be buying for the performance improvements. The, the difference in drag is pretty trivial in the grand scheme. Um, uh, that really the benefit when you have something like, uh, an XD 15 ceramic hybrid is that they last much longer. They're basically bombproof and they provide a lifetime warranty. So that's a, a different, a different thing. Uh, so just like sh selling, like promoting things on their merits as opposed to on some, some hype to get people to part with their funds. [00:12:47]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think that's, you know, it's obviously an interesting journey for a lot of newer cyclists because it's easy to see and become aware of the things that have the hype around them. But I, I, I found, at least for my, myself and my own journey, sort of took a while as a mountain biker back in the day to just sort of go back to what works above and beyond anything else. I'm not gonna lie, like I had a bunch of no shade against Ringle from back in the day, but I had a bunch of purple anodized parts that I thought looked good. I don't think they were the best performing parts in the world. And eventually, you know, I just sort of went back to some stock stuff and and focused on things that would really improve the quality of my experience, like upgrading wheels, for example. [00:13:30]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Well, and it's really hard to know, especially, especially as somebody who's just entering the sport, but honestly, even as someone who's been in the industry for some time, like it took me years to really get to the bottom of what was real and, and what was, you know, marketing Huey. Um, and that came through talking with the engineers behind it and like hearing from them, oh yeah, this is something that our marketers wanted us to do and we actually despise it. Um, or this is something the bean counters wanted us to do and we, and we wish we didn't have to. Um, but that's information that you only get if you're talking to say, like the head of QC at some large brand or, you know, the lead engineer or something like this. Uh, which is what we get to do here sometimes, which is great. [00:14:17]Craig Dalton (host): That said, if putting an anodized piece of part on your bike makes you happy, makes you smile, makes you ride more, more, go ahead and do it. I've certainly got my, my fair share of colorful parts on my new bike, so happy to, uh, happy to make people smile when I roll. Roll by. [00:14:34]Randall R. Jacobs: Oh yeah. I think, I think the moral there is not to is, is not to forego style. It's just to don't, don't compromise on the, uh, the fundamental function of the, of the components when adding that style elements. [00:14:47]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, hey, I know you've been busy with Logos Wheels. Have you guys, I think you've added another wheel or two to the lineup. Am I correct in that? [00:14:59]Randall R. Jacobs: So we hinted, uh, uh, we, we hinted this in our newsletter. Uh, we'll have another one going out actually today as of the, this, uh, publication. Um, but we have three more that we're about to release. Uh, one is a, uh, an Arrow road model, uh, 50 deep, 21 internal, 30 external. A cross-country model, which is 28 internal, and then a, uh, Enduro, uh, an all Mountain Enduro version of our current, uh, Uday wheel, uh, which is a 31 internal. And all of those use the same kind of principles and components. Just, you know, broadening the line to, you know, hit, hit more the, uh, the sub niches for each, you know, product category. [00:15:45]Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha and all. Were those in DU bearings you mentioned earlier? [00:15:49]Randall R. Jacobs: All of those Enduro bearings. Uh, we are planning on releasing a, an XD 15 line later in the year. Uh, right now it's all their, um, uh, their, uh, stainless steel bearings. [00:16:01]Craig Dalton (host): Okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Well, we won't drill too much into those new wheels just simply cuz they're a little bit outside of the gravel market, but you've still got your 700 C gravel wheel and a six 50 B gravel wheel. [00:16:13]Randall R. Jacobs: Yes. And, uh, those have been doing really well and we've been building out our dealer program for that too, which has been a lot of fun. Actually, I, I plan on bringing on some dealers to talk about, you know, the nature of running a bike shop at some point. Cause it's just been a, an absolute delight to, to connect with local businesses. [00:16:30]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I mean I think that's just sort of, I think running a bike shop, there's never a dull moment. Right. I know. I think we were gathering from a lot of, a lot of partners in the industry at Sea Otter that there's just been a glut of inventory [00:16:45]Randall R. Jacobs: Mm-hmm. [00:16:46]Craig Dalton (host): market and that's kind of jamming a lot of, a lot of shops up in some interesting ways. [00:16:51]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. And for those curious, um, so I mean, we all saw the shortages that happened during covid, um, along with the boom and demand. Um, so in boom and quantity demanded. So shifting out the demand curve, um, and. As a consequence, a lot of shops essentially ordered whatever they could from wherever they could and, uh, including, you know, Ordering the same thing from multiple places. And these agreements, uh, were not agreements that could be canceled. These, these, uh, pos And so everything came, and everything came all at once at the end of last season, which is when it's. You know, when things are generally quieter at the shop. So this just this glut of inventory that's kind of working its way through the system. Um, and, you know, that's still ongoing for some shops. Uh, but for the most part, the shops I've been talking to have been able to, to, you know, navigate it. Uh, and are, are still, you know, doing just fine. [00:17:51]Craig Dalton (host): I feel like this might finally break the sort of product year introduction life cycle that's been starting to break, and maybe less so for components, but I think more so maybe for smaller frame builders and brands that can just kind of bring bikes into the world when it's an opportune time to have a conversation about them versus. These seasonal experiences we used to have in the bike industry. [00:18:15]Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and certainly, um, I mean, there have been complaints about model years on bicycles from shops for, you know, probably since, since there were bike shops and brands were doing this as a way of kind of, um, you know, planned obsolescence. And so it's, it hasn't been healthy for shops. You essentially have brands that will force feed a bunch of product and then immediately release the next thing in the middle of the season. Cuz they want, you know, cuz they're all competing with the other brands to release the new thing, uh, during the peak of the season. And it's just been pretty, um, Pretty harmful to these small businesses that have been essential to growing some of these larger brands. Uh, it's one of the reasons actually that I left, um, that I decided not to work, um, at a big brand because I, I really found the dealer agreements to be very pernicious and model years are very much part of that, um, you know, extractive relationship. [00:19:12]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So at, AT, and then at Thesis, you've still got, you're still working on, uh, you've still got full bike builds available right? [00:19:23]Randall R. Jacobs: Oh yeah. And in fact we, um, we just launched a summer special where it is, uh, $500 off of our OB one Access custom. And, um, for members of the community, uh, there is an additional $500, uh, just for community members, and that's using the Code Community 500. So if you're listening, uh, thank you for supporting this podcast and, uh, being along for the ride. And, uh, yeah, if you need a bike, reach out. [00:19:51]Craig Dalton (host): I need to widen my camera. I've got my, my OB one in the background right on the wall. [00:19:58]Randall R. Jacobs: Very cool. Oh, pinky. [00:19:59]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, that's right. Speaking of the cool bikes, I got word about a new trade show up in Portland called Made This August, which sounds exciting. I think it in some ways it hearkens to the, the National Handmade Bicycle Show, but a little different vibe. A ton of cool frame builders are gonna be up there. And it's both, uh, sort of a media show as well as the consumer show. So if you're in the Pacific Northwest or you know, close to Portland or fancy a bike geek holiday, that seems like a really cool show. [00:20:34]Randall R. Jacobs: Yep, I'll be there. Sam will be there with me as well. Um, and we'll have a few, um, wheels on bikes and, uh, enduros gonna be there too. Uh, so we'll probably collaborate with them on some stuff. [00:20:46]Craig Dalton (host): Cool. [00:20:46]Randall R. Jacobs: but yeah, I'm really excited to see, um, more, well, there's, there's long, there's a long tradition of domestic, uh, custom bike making in the us. Um, but to really see how, um, particularly in metal, um, how more domestic fame fabrication can happen at scale. And so that'll, those will be some of the conversations that I'll be having while I'm [00:21:12]Craig Dalton (host): Nice. [00:21:13]Randall R. Jacobs: In addition to just seeing all the eye candy, [00:21:15]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I, I definitely miss going to nabs and just having that experience and it was always such a great opportunity for Frame Builders to kind of roll out something special or something unique that showed their creativity and, uh, yeah, just always got me jazzed about bikes. [00:21:33]Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and it's, it is the case that what happens at these custom bike shows influences what happens in the broader market. Um, it is no secret that the big brands are there looking at, you know, what the next trend is going to be. And in fact, there's a, a famous story about, uh, you know, Tom Richie's early mountain bike being brought over to Japan by, uh, the leader of another, uh, major brand, and that becoming a, uh, I think the stump jumper. [00:22:03]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah, I remember hearing that story. The other cool one that's going on actually this month in June out in Ogden, Utah, is the Envy Groo. So it's a a ride slash kind of builder partner event. Similar kind of jam where it's just like amazing custom builders coming out. So that one's a favorite of mine because you get a great gravel ride combined with this fun bike show. And I hope, I don't know, but I hope at Maid they're gonna do some group rides or some other ways to engage the community. [00:22:36]Randall R. Jacobs: I suspect so. And if in fact I'll just come out and say like, if no one's doing it, then maybe we'll kick off something. Uh, cuz we got some friends in that area that could help create a route. And it would definitely be great to get some riding in the Pacific Northwest Riding is pretty fantastic. [00:22:51]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think that's an amazing idea. You should go forward with that. [00:22:55]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Um, I have, uh, given a hostage to Fortune, and I suppose I now have to create this groove ride. [00:23:04]Craig Dalton (host): What else is, what else are you seeing out there? [00:23:08]Randall R. Jacobs: Uh, so again, like I haven't seen a ton interesting that the, the main thing. Uh, so Camp Nolo has kind of been a distant third in terms of group sets in recent years with, uh, you know, the Swam Shao duopoly being quite dominant. Uh, but they just released a road focused, uh, wireless electronic group. Uh, so it, it does kind of, you know, this doesn't have a clutch, so it's definitely two by tight gearing roady focused. But it does beg the question, when are they gonna come out with a, an, you know, an ecar, like gravel focused one by version and will that have 13 speed and so [00:23:48]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, you would think by next year or so, I, I've always heard that Ecar, gravel groupo is super well regarded and performs well. [00:23:56]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah, I hear great things about it. Um, the other interesting thing is, uh, in the article, I'll, I'll just quote, uh, quote the folks at bike rumor. Uh, they're talking about the fact that there are two different batteries used in the front derailer in the rear derailer. And, uh, uh, quote. An important note here is that both use different batteries and both have a different mechanism to secure the battery in place. This was apparently a direct workaround, str access patents. So I haven't explored the patents, uh, in this much detail, but if it is possible to patent the idea of a single battery being shared amongst multiple, Bicycle components. There's something wrong with our patent system. Uh, this isn't serving riders or, you know, competition, healthy competition or things like that. It's just supporting incumbents and, you know, it's anti-competitive. That's, I'd be interested to see what the specifics are there. [00:24:53]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, that is interesting cuz there's no logical reason not to take advantage of having swappable batteries. It's just so useful in my in sh shram setup. [00:25:05]Randall R. Jacobs: This is, uh, I, I'm definitely of the opinion. Uh, the more I explore how our patent system works, that it is, it exists less to support, um, the small, independent inventor, uh, and more to keep incumbents incumbent. [00:25:25]Craig Dalton (host): It certainly has those [00:25:26]Randall R. Jacobs: bot Botton paid for. [00:25:27]Craig Dalton (host): It certainly has those tendencies. [00:25:30]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Uh, what [00:25:33]Craig Dalton (host): Well, I haven't been, uh, riding a lot. I have been appreciating the gravel racing scene starting up for the year, and I'm always sort of bemused and enjoy kind of following some of these bigger events on social media. And obviously like just, just this past weekend Unbound happened and I think some of the bigger stories there were, you know, big Rainstorm came in. And mile 10 or 11, there was a huge mud bog hike, a bike section that lasted minutes and destroyed the hopes and dreams of many of an athlete. From what I understand, derailers getting clogged sounds like one of those days that choosing a one buy was a way better choice than a two buy for people's drive trains. [00:26:25]Randall R. Jacobs: That race is already just like a notorious supper fest, [00:26:29]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, [00:26:30]Randall R. Jacobs: so, [00:26:31]Craig Dalton (host): someone made the point that, you know, they, they thought and were, were sort of saddened that all these athletes who had, you know, spent months and months and months preparing for a 200 mile event, many of them had their day destroyed by a mud bog 10 miles into the race. Whereas, you know, potentially maybe there was a reroute potential for the course that could have made it less of a suffer fest than it already was. [00:26:58]Randall R. Jacobs: You know, it, it, it, for me, it brings up granted taking, I've, I've never done this event, haven't part, haven't, uh, been to this event, uh, have, have nothing to say about this particular event. Um, but it, for me does reinforce the idea of like, the value of smaller local events. And, you know, taking precedent over some of these like, high profile types of events. Like you can find a, a 200 miler in New England. There's, there's, in fact a, a couple I think that go longer than that. Uh, it's just, it won't be the one that, um, will have shown up in the media a whole [00:27:35]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I mean the counterpoint to that, Randall, and I would say this kind of goes for like my Ironman triathlon experience. There is something magical about being part of the spectacle and I'm not, [00:27:47]Randall R. Jacobs: true, true, true. [00:27:49]Craig Dalton (host): Again, I haven't been out there, I haven't done it, but I've spoken to plenty of people who have, who espouse its virtues, and I, and I do. I would like to do it one day again, just to have that spectacle moment. I have a hard time getting my head around riding 200 miles, to be honest with you, and making that seem like it's gonna be a fun day for me. But I do appreciate it and I do acknowledge, like anybody who's, who's crossed that finish line, that is a. [00:28:15]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, that's, that's a huge accomplishment. [00:28:18]Craig Dalton (host): especially if you had an inclement weather year like this one sounded like it was with not only rain preceding it and, and obviously creating that mud bog, but I know for some of the athletes who were out there, you know, the 10 plus hours, the majority of them were caught in very, very heavy rain at one point in their day. [00:28:39]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, I'm recognizing there's a little bit of like, um, retired former PAC fodder, racer curmudgeons coming out me. So like I should be, uh, yeah, I, it's easy for me to say don't go to the, you know, prioritize smaller events when I got to participate in some big events and kind of get it out of my system too, [00:28:58]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, there's something to be said for both. At the end of the day, there's no, no doubt it, no doubt about it. Speaking of your curmudgeonly, old racer days, I, I've got one that that may potentially rally you up. So this was the other one. People jokingly have the last couple years have talked about gravel beef, and inevitably like, and in any given year, someone's angry about something and I, I caught wind. Via a sort of shady post from Ian Boswell, a former professional road athlete after this gravel lo race where Canadian, Adam Rob ended up winning. And the shade was basically that, uh, Adam didn't work in the race. And, and for those of you who maybe aren't familiar with that terminology, by working it means rotating through, taking some of the wind, hitting the front of the race, setting the pace. Um, apparently he did none of that. Is that, I mean, is that fair racing in your mind? If you go back to your racing days? [00:29:58]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah, that's totally fair. I mean, granted, I I'm not as accomplished of a rider as, as Ian Boswell, um, by any means. Not even remotely close. I might have been, but, um, yeah, I, I mean it's, it's a race. And you know that now, as a racer, you need to keep in mind that you know, these other participants are people that you're gonna be racing with in the future. And so when you need a pull or something like that, you know, you might not get that support. But at the end of the day, um, at racing, at that elite level, it is highly competitive. And if that is a tactic that works, then others need to adjust their tactics accordingly. Um, It doesn't feel great, but at the same time, like it's not against the rules and that's what dictates what's okay in racing. [00:30:49]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, it, it's been interesting sort of watching the scuttle bit on this, cuz I tend to agree with you. My, my first reaction, and I, I, I sort of stand by this, is, it's fair racing. And in fact, prior to in the runup to gravel Locos, a number of pros had commented that there was no technical feature, no climb. In that race that was likely to separate the strongest athletes and undoubtedly it was gonna be a, a pretty big lead group. With that said, it's pretty natural that some people are gonna try to conserve their energy. I think it's a, it's sort of in important it, tactically speaking, other athletes needed to take that on and try to sort of break them free, if you will, earlier in the race, if people are hanging on. [00:31:38]Randall R. Jacobs: Well, also, it, it al it sounds like maybe the chorus was more conducive to this type of strategy where a sprinter could preserve their energy as much as possible, and then ultimately it's a sprint that wins. I don't know if that was the case here, um, but it's just, uh, you know, whatever strategy gets you over the line first that's within the rules and is not, um, You know, is, is not unsportsmanlike. It, it makes me think of a example. Like, uh, you know, in, in the, in some of the grand tours and actually even in some amateur stage road stage races I've been involved in, you know, there'll be a consensus amongst the, the dominant riders in the field that it's time to pull over and pee [00:32:21]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. [00:32:21]Randall R. Jacobs: and the whole group will pull over at once and pee. And if you're like sprinting off of that, I mean it, that would be pushing the limits for me in terms of that's a totally legal strategy, but that's also a pretty lousy one. Um, but what I'm hearing with this one doesn't, doesn't seem [00:32:41]Craig Dalton (host): And I, I think, I mean, if we go back to last year's gravel beef, it was all around s n n, not stopping at aid stations and like, you know, carrying water in a camelback or the like, which again seems like [00:32:53]Randall R. Jacobs: Oh, yeah. If, if you're carrying your own stuff, that's totally legit. Like that's a smart, like, I, I could imagine too, if I was racing these days and I was attending a really hot race, I'd have a camel back That wa, that I had frozen the night before said I was keeping my body cold. And that would be totally legitimate. And just because other people didn't think of it, doesn't mean it's [00:33:11]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah, [00:33:12]Randall R. Jacobs: Um, so I, it's, but everyone has their lines, I [00:33:15]Craig Dalton (host): exactly. And I think what you, one point you brought up early on, which I think is, is so true, there's both what's legal and illegal in racing, but also the social dynamics of future races. And the likelihood that people are gonna help one another. And I mean, I, again, I feel a little bit bad for all the shade that that Adam's been catching. And I don't imagine anybody helping him bridge any gaps or working with him, which is, which is a shame and a little bit unfair. But again, people are gonna take offense to how people ride and they're gonna wanna work with people and not work with people. [00:33:51]Randall R. Jacobs: I don't know, man. Like, if, if that's, uh, a strategy that works and you know, there are other ride, like if you're, if there are other riders who are stronger and then you're able to come up with a, a more clever strategy, uh, that seems legit to me. [00:34:07]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, [00:34:09]Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. [00:34:10]Craig Dalton (host): my usual strategy is, is suck wheels and then get dropped. No one seems, no one seems to complain too much about that with me. That said, that said, I aspire to develop some sort of fitness on my bike this year, attend some events later in the year, and just kind of bring this year back together for me on the gravel bike. [00:34:35]Randall R. Jacobs: Well, I don't know about, uh, cycling fitness, but, um, if you're ever inclined to build fitness through carrying rocks and building materials and swinging a hammer, uh, I know somebody who, uh, would happily, uh, give you free training. [00:34:49]Craig Dalton (host): I love it, Randall. Well, my friend, good to connect with you again. Good to see the progress on the cabin. I can't wait to, uh, to see how it goes, and hopefully we'll hook up again this summer. [00:35:00]Randall R. Jacobs: Very good. Good to see you, my friend. [00:35:02]Craig Dalton (host): Take care. That's going to do it for this week's edition of in the dirt, from the gravel ride podcast. I hope you enjoyed catching up with Randall and myself this week. If you have topics you're interested in us covering whether it's interviewing other people in the industry or athletes, please reach out to us. You can do that via social media or via the ridership. That's www.theridership.com. If you're able to support the show, ratings and reviews are hugely appreciated. Or if you're able, you can visit buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride to support the show financially. Until next time. Here's to finding some dirt under your wheels.