Podcasts about East Africa

Have you ever stayed somewhere, a job, a relationship, a version of yourself, not because it felt right, but because it paid the bills or because it's what you were supposed to do? My friend Spencer West has. And what he did next is one of the most quietly courageous things I've heard in a long time. Spencer was born with a genetic condition that led to the amputation of both legs before he was five. He came out as gay when the world around him said that wasn't an option. He spent years in a career that looked great from the outside and felt completely hollow on the inside.  And then, one day, he said enough, and he climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. On his hands. To raise clean water for thousands of people. What got me was the Alchemist quote he shared at the end of our conversation (you'll hear it -- just stay with us to the close).  And the reminder that the universe was calling the whole time. He just had to pick up. Be sure to listen to the calls you're getting from the universe, and please, always be kind, gentle, and loving with yourself.   About Spencer West Spencer West is a motivational speaker, content creator, and author of Breaking Free: Stop Following Expectations and Start Following Yourself. Born with a genetic condition that led to the amputation of both legs before age five, Spencer spent years navigating a world full of expectations that were never his -- until he finally stopped pretending and started listening to his soul. In 2012, he climbed Mount Kilimanjaro on his hands, raising clean water for 12,500 people in East Africa. Today he travels the world helping others ask the questions that change everything: Why am I here? And what would it look like to actually break free?   About Your Host, Julie Reisler Julie Reisler is a heart-led intuitive guide, TEDx speaker, author, and host of The You-est You® Podcast. For over 15 years, she has helped high-achieving souls reconnect to their intuition, trust their inner guidance, and build lives rooted in inner peace and purpose. A faculty member at Georgetown University and founder of the Intuitive Life Designer® Coach Academy, Julie blends spirituality, science, positive psychology, and lived experience to help you remember and embody your You-est You.   Be sure to subscribe to Julie's YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/juliereisler and ring the notification bell so that you never miss a powerful episode!   Here's to your truest, You-est You! Love, Julie   You-est You® Resources for YOU! See below for free tools, resources, programs, and goodies to help you become your YOU-EST YOU!   FREE Manifest Your Goals & Dreams 7-Day Toolset This stunning free toolset is a 7-day workbook (25 pages full) of powerful mindset practices, grounding meditations (and audio), a new beautiful time management system and template to set your personalized schedule for your best productivity, a personalized energy assessment, and so much more. It was designed to specifically help you uplevel your routine and self-care habits for success so you can radiate and become your 'You-est You'. These tools are some of Julie's best practices used with hundreds of her clients to help you feel more confident, clear, and connected to your best self so that you feel inspired to take on the world. Get it at: juliereisler.com/toolset   FREE Intuition Test - Your Intuition on Demand Unlock your unique intuitive super-powers and discover your dominant Intuition Language™. Take the free test now at https://juliereisler.com/intuitiontest   Intuition Activation Mini-Course - 50% OFF! For a limited time only, get access to Julie's powerful transformative Intuition Activation mini-course for 50% off! You'll have lifetime access to this course that is full of video modules, worksheets, meditations, tools and practices to unlock your intuition and activate your inner guidance! Sign up now at https://juliereisler.com/activation    Julie's Private Soul Circle Membership on YouTube is Here! If you've been craving a deeper connection to your intuition, spiritual guidance, and heart-centered community, this is your invitation.

Growing up between Canada and East Africa, Michael Kieran's childhood was shaped by international communities, close encounters with elephants and lions, and experiences that challenged the way he saw the world. He brings that same perspective to building high-performing recruiting teams grounded in consistency, ambition, and continuous growth as a Fractional Talent Leader. In this conversation, he shares why the best TA organizations think differently about performance, AI, and what it really means to become world-class.Connect with host James Mackey on LinkedIn! Thank you to our sponsor, SecureVision, for making this show possible!  Follow us:https://www.linkedin.com/company/82436841/SecureVision: #1 Rated Embedded Recruitment Firm on G2!https://www.g2.com/products/securevision/reviewsThanks for listening!

As Ebola continues to spread in Central and East Africa, conspiracies and myths about the disease are making it harder to control. This episode was produced by Avishay Artsy and Dustin DeSoto, edited by Amina Al-Sadi, fact-checked by Gabriel Dunatov, engineered by David Tatasciore and Patrick Boyd, and hosted by Noel King. A health worker crouching beside the coffin of a suspected Ebola victim during safe burial procedures in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Photo by Michel Lunanga/Getty Images. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. New Vox members get $20 off their membership right now. Transcript at ⁠vox.com/today-explained-podcast.⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matt Oh was an engineer with a stable career and a 9-to-5 when a mission trip to India stopped him in his tracks. He saw something he couldn't unsee — women and children spending 10 hours a day walking to collect dirty water.In 2015, he founded FOREFRONT Charity with a few college friends and one water well. Today, more than 100,000 people across India, Kenya, and East Africa have been impacted through clean water, education, medical care, and empowerment. 105 water wells drilled. A school built, in which 20% of the students once worked in child labor, that now serves more than 250 first-generation students. A 90% program efficiency rate. Clearly, an engineer is running this.

Charles and Jon talk to conservationists and primatologists Tom Butynski and Yvonne de Jong from their base in Kenya.Tom and Yvonne run the East African Primate Diversity and Conservation Program and research primates and other mammals in East Africa.After explaining how their rural childhoods fostered a love for nature, Tom and Yvonne outline very varied career paths that took them around the world and eventually to Kenya - and each other - 25 years ago.They talk about the importance of citizen science and describe some of the work they are undertaking on a range of species, including the critically endangered Southern Patas Monkey. And they outline the process they have followed to describe the several new primate species and subspecies they have described.Charles is delighted to hear that if people looking for a new purpose in life then "dik-diks are the way to go", while Jon is shocked when Yvonne claims that she and Tom are not yet "as cool as the birders"!The episode begins with Charles and Jon taking about their March 2026 weekend in Florida featuring a Florida Mouse and a very lengthy wrong turn!Notes: Tom and Yvonne's Wild Solutions website is a goldmine of mammalwatching information, including some excellent free pocket guides to African primates, and a sound library of vocal profiles of many galago species (the calls of which are often indispensable to species identification).Jon and Charles's weekend in Florida report is here.If you would like to submit you own notes from the field then please get in touch with Jon at info@mammalwatching.comYou can support mammalwatching and buy us a coffee here https://buymeacoffee.com/mammalwatchingFinally did you know you can sign up to receive a weekly mammalwatching newsletter here? https://www.mammalwatching.com/subscribe-to-updates/Cover art: Tom & Yvonne in the field by Rick Strooper.Dr Charles Foley is a mammalwatcher and biologist who, together with his wife Lara, spent 30 years studying elephants in Tanzania. They now run the Tanzania Conservation Research Program at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago.Jon Hall set up mammalwatching.com in 2005. Genetically Welsh, spiritually Australian, currently in New York City. He has looked for mammals in almost 120 countries.

What does it actually mean to be East African?In this episode of The Long Form Podcast, Marcus Kwikiriza reflects on living and working across Uganda, Kenya, and Rwanda, and why the dream of an integrated East Africa remains more complicated than many people assume.Drawing on his experience during Kenya's 2007–08 post-election violence, Marcus discusses ethnicity, identity, labour mobility, xenophobia, the decline of mass media, and whether a genuine East African citizen is emerging. We also explore the future of radio, political consciousness, and the impact of the Basketball Africa League on local sports systems.Sponsors:Threat Informat - https://threatinformant.io/                                               Akagera Medicines- https://www.akageramedicines.com Join our Patreon to enjoy ad-free viewing https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheLongFormPod or support us via our MTN Mobile Money Code 95462 or directly to our phone number: +250795462739Visit Sanny Ntayombya's Official Website: https://sannyntayombya.comProduced by LF Media 

James Willcox - Untamed borders: Pakistan Untamed Borders is an adventure travel company providing unparalleled access to some of the world's most interesting and inaccessible places. They specialise in trips to Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Middle East, North Africa, East Africa, former Soviet Central Asia and the Caucasus.Catch Giles live - 'Let's Talk' - Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday - from 10.00CET...on tre.radio

“…and today we're talking about a fuzzy little creep. But more on that later.” Out in the rocky woodland alleys of East Africa lurks a rodent that ain't nothin but a heartache. The African crested rat waddles around in a spikey stripey overcoat like a tiny hedge skunk with a toxic secret. Unlike its murine […]

Darrell Castle talks about the resignation of Tulsi Gabbard from her position as Director of National Intelligence, and why she made the decision to resign. Was it because of her husband’s illness or something else. Transcription / Notes TULSI'S GONE Hello, this is Darrell Castle with today's Castle Report. This is Friday the 29th day of May in the year of our Lord 2026. I will be talking about the resignation of Tulsi Gabbard from her position as Director of National Intelligence, and about why Tulsi made the decision to resign. Was her decision because of her husband's illness or was it something else. Tulsi never seemed to fit into Washington like a typical Washington politician. She never seemed willing to lie and cheat her way to the top as is typical of Washington. From the beginning of her prominence, she seemed a little too honest and too forthright for Washington politics. Nevertheless, she was a politician having served as a Democrat in congress from the state of Hawaii. She left congress and ran for president as a Democrat but lost in the primary to Joe Biden. She became disenchanted with the Democrat Party and decided to back President Trump in his run for that office. President Trump appointed her Director of National Intelligence, in theory the most important national security position in the country. The U.S. now has 18 intelligence agencies or departments if you count their various components and they all report to the Director of National Intelligence, but once in the office I imagine that the DNI found out who holds the real power in the intelligence world. When I learned a few weeks ago that the CIA had apparently broken into, raided, or whatever you want to call the CIA's visit to their boss's office, I knew Tulsi would soon be gone. Whistleblower James Erdman blew his whistle in congress and testified that the CIA had “seized” documents from their secure area in the office of the DNI. Some of the files they seized related to the assassination, or perhaps their assassination, of JFK. They apparently also took the files related to MKULTRA which was and probably is the CIA's experimental program designed to alter and control human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs and torture. They sought to and apparently did learn the art of mind control including control of whole populations through these experiments. There are people who exist now who are suing the CIA in an effort to get some answers to the questions of what happened to their minds and the minds of their parents because of MKULTRA. That's not all they got because apparently they got the files on “Havana Syndrome” in which U.S. diplomats and others stationed in Havana and other places were apparently subjected to some kind of mind-altering rays. In response to the CIA raid, Representative Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL) and James Comer (R-KY) chairman of the house Oversight Committee, sent a preservation letter to the CIA demanding that all evidence related to the taken or stolen material be preserved. I imagine the CIA got a good laugh over that letter as they endeavored to show naive members of Congress who actually runs this country. Apparently someone spoke to someone and explained the facts of life as it exists in Washington because when that letter of preservation became public people started to backtrack their statements. Even Erdman, the whistleblower said no I didn't say it was a raid instead I just said CIA refused to comply with “lawful oversight and documented everts to circumvent oversight.” He testified to Congress that not only did CIA refuse to comply with the directives of the ODNI Director's Initiatives Group (DIG) investigations into the origins of COVID-19 and other “phenomena” but retaliated against those who did not support their own conclusions. Quoting long-term CIA agent Erdman, “The CIA illegally monitored the computer and phone usage of DIG personnel, their investigations, and contact with whistleblowers, which significantly impacted Director Gabbard's implementation of several Eo's issued during this administration and tasked to the DIG.” In addition, “when the DIG ceased operations, the CIA also took back 40 boxes of JFK files and MKULTRA files being processed for declassification by DNI Gabbard.” The CIA's spying was referenced as tracking every keystroke of DIG personnel as they processed files directed by presidential EO to be released or unclassified. These files included files concerning JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations, the origins of COVID-19, Crossfire Hurricane, The Biden Administration's domestic surveillance, Anomalous Health Incidents (AHI) and Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. So, just speculating here folks, but trying to do it with logic I think it went something like this. The President appoints this intelligent and experienced, but most importantly honest woman to head the nation's intelligence organizations. He then says that as he campaigned on a pledge to be transparent and release long classified files he issues an Executive Order (EO) to that effect. Tulsi, his DNI, who most likely took the job based on a promise to be forthcoming, sets out to obey the President's EO. She appoints a working group from among those in the office of the DNI which she calls DIG to sort through the files to determine if there was anything that should not be released. The CIA completely ignored that  report to DNI which was Tulsi and in fact they ignore or refuse to abide by the direct written orders of the President of the United States. They break into, or raid, if that is better, her office, take the files and even congress can't get them back. My conclusion, then, is that this case reveals as clearly as anything has who or what runs this country. I knew when I heard the story of what happened and looked into it that Tulsi would not be able to remain in the administration. Who would want to be director of the office that controls American intelligence agencies, all 18 of them, if one of those agencies was completely exempt from you, their boss's orders, and apparently didn't even follow the orders of the President. So, is that why she resigned because she didn't say that it was. In fact, she didn't complain about the President's inability or unwillingness to control the CIA but instead she thanked him and the American people for the opportunity to serve. In her letter she cited her husband Abraham and his diagnosis of a “extremely rare form of bone cancer” as the reason. She said he had stood by her every step of the way including when her Army guard unit was deployed to East Africa and through her political campaigns so she wanted to be with him full-time during such a difficult time. In 18 months as DNI she restructured the office, cutting its size and saving the American people more than $700 million per year. She launched many investigations and sought the release of previously classified material related to the programs previously listed. She has declassified more than 500,000 pages thus far. Her National Counterterrorism Center stopped thousands of narco-terrorists from entering the country until finally its head, Joe Kent, publicly resigned citing the Iran war as the reason. I saw her interviewed on the Shawn Ryan Podcast the other day and she was very forthright as she normally is. She said that the people who opposed her in her efforts were very intolerant of anyone who believes in God because in their minds they are God. They are the ultimate deciders of right and wrong and their choices are never wrong because they determine what right is. If a person opposes them, even if their boss opposes them, that person is on the way out. She said that before she goes at the end of June she will release many files related to the programs in question. Likely, these files will be released in weekly installments over the weeks of June. Her deputy director, Aaron Lukas, will serve as acting director until a permanent director is appointed. I predict without knowing one way or the other that the new director will have a CIA or perhaps military, meaning ex-General background. Politicians seem to be sweating over the prospect of files related to Crossfire Hurricane or the Russia gate hoax and other weaponization of law programs. I'm just speculating because I admit I don't know but I will wager that Tulsi grew very weary of constantly trying to follow presidential directives and being stymied at every turn while doing so. That type of constant stress is very difficult to bear long term.  Why would the CIA take her JFK files along with the other assassination files. That's a good question isn't it but the answer is very obvious but unsayable in public. Yes I know the assassinations were all done by lone nuts who were killed or prosecuted without any real investigation but nothing to see here folks just move along. Finally, folks, Tulsi seems to be an intelligent, honest woman who loves her country and its people and who puts them before any political party. There aren't many left like her and I for one will miss her. I wish her well. At least that's the way I see it, Until next time folks, This is Darrell Castle, Thanks for listening.

Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) a global leader in IT services, consulting, and business solutions, who operate a Global Delivery Centre in Letterkenny, Co. Donegal, has expanded its global cloud portfolio with the launch of SovereignSecure Cloud in Europe. This bespoke offering, designed specifically for governments, public sector enterprises, and regulated industries, combines sovereign cloud architecture with AI capabilities to enable sovereignty across data, operations and digital infrastructure. In the European Union (EU), the offerings will enable enterprises to achieve digital autonomy, strengthen regulatory compliance and enhanced security in an increasingly complex global environment without compromising on the speed, agility, and interoperability essential to modern businesses. The launch of TCS SovereignSecure Cloud in the EU builds on its successful rollout in India in 2025, followed by expansions into Kenya, East Africa and the Philippines. TCS SovereignSecure Cloud for the EU has been designed to provide strategic autonomy through a multi-layered approach. It comprises a sovereign cloud layer delivered through hyperscalers, providing scale and the flexibility to operate securely within the EU regulatory framework. The national sovereign cloud layer enables country-specific localisation while bringing operations under a unified control plane. And its enterprise cloud services layer leverages the EU-specific TCS Enterprise Cloud Framework, a unified orchestration and control layer that enables enterprises to dynamically apply the appropriate level of sovereignty across data, operations, and technology based on workload, risk, and sector. Sapthagiri Chapalapalli, Head of Europe, TCS, said, "European organisations are looking to strike a balance between addressing supply chain and sovereignty risks while ensuring leverage of frontier technologies to be globally competitive. TCS SovereignSecure Cloud solutions mark an important milestone for TCS in Europe, as our customers can now benefit from a pragmatic approach to cloud that ensures resilience and sovereignty that is contextualised to the enterprise." TCS is also introducing the TCS Sovereignty Consulting and Delivery Framework in the EU to help organisations become a "minimum viable sovereign enterprise" by finding the right balance between control and flexibility. It recognises that not all workloads need the same level of sovereign protection. Using a practical, risk-based approach, it categorises workloads by importance and applies the right level of sovereignty to each, focusing effort where they deliver the greatest impact and risk mitigation. As enterprises and governments across Europe accelerate their digital transformation journeys, the need for secure, compliant and sovereign cloud architectures has never been more critical. With SovereignSecure Cloud, TCS is bringing together the scale of hyperscalers, localised sovereign controls, and AI-led capabilities to help organisations achieve digital autonomy without compromising on agility, innovation or operational resilience. This new TCS SovereignSecure Cloud offering leverages TCS' strength in the European region, enabling organisations to innovate and grow with more flexibility. Operating in Europe for over 45 years, TCS has a diverse workforce operating from 58 offices across the region. TCS drives digital transformation for some of Europe's leading multinationals adapting to the changing digital landscape of today across industries such as banking and financial services, manufacturing, telecom, retail, travel, logistics, and more. TCS is committed to serving as a trusted IT service provider across its TCS European Delivery Network of 10 data centres and 21 delivery locations across Europe and in Ireland where their operation in Letterkenny was integral in the rollout of Ireland's national pension auto-enrollment scheme, known as 'My Future Fund', going live in January 2026.

“As long as there's life, there's hope.” – Martha Hoy Today's featured author is a nurse, speaker, and founder of Mother Martha Family Foundation, Martha Hoy. Martha and I had a chat about her upcoming book, 2020 Year of the Nurse: A Nurse's Journey Through the Front Lines, a life-changing meeting with Dr. Jane Goodall, and more!Key Things You'll Learn:What it was like nursing in Las Vegas during the pandemic and the lasting effects from 2020What commonalities appeared for Martha after interviewing over 100 nurses from the US and East Africa for her bookHow she balances both her nursing and humanitarian effortsWhat Martha has planned for her future booksMartha's Site: https://www.mommartha.com/Martha's Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B07LB6P5PC/allbooks?ingress=0&visitId=167f17d2-63fa-4eb2-bdec-a50024de55c5The opening track is titled, “Unknown From M.E. | Sonic Adventure 2 ~ City Pop Remix” by Iridium Beats. To listen to and download the full track, click the following link. https://www.patreon.com/posts/sonic-adventure-136084016 Please support today's podcast to keep this content coming! CashApp: $DomBrightmonDonate on PayPal: @DBrightmonBuy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dombrightmonGet Going North T-Shirts, Stickers, and More: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/dom-brightmonThe Going North Advancement Compass: https://a.co/d/bA9awotYou May Also Like…672 – Becoming Mother Martha with Martha Hoy (@annmarhoy): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-672-becoming-mother-martha-with-martha-hoy-annmarhoy/948 – Writing for Wellness & Laughing Through the Chaos with Jennifer A. Johnson, RN: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-948-writing-for-wellness-laughing-through-the-chaos-with-jennifer-a-johnson-rn/375.5 – The Art of Human Care for COVID-19 with Dr. Hassan Tetteh (@doctortetteh): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-3755-the-art-of-human-care-for-covid-19-with-dr-hassan-tetteh-doctortetteh/1073 – From Sassy Nurse to Successful Novelist with Amy Lou Jenkins (@AmyLouToYou): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-1073-from-sassy-nurse-to-successful-novelist-with-amy-lou-jenkins-amyloutoyou/1015 – How One Woman's Harrowing Beginning Led Her to God, Grace, and Growth with Dr. Shanea Clancy: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-1015-how-one-womans-harrowing-beginning-led-her-to-god-grace-and-growth-with-dr-shanea-cla/437 – “INpowered Mind, INpowered Health.” with Dr. Jayne Marquis (@jayne_marquis): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-437-inpowered-mind-inpowered-health-with-dr-jayne-marquis-jayne_marquis/1043 – Answering the Call to Become a Multihyphenate Edutainer with Dr. Candy Campbell: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/ep-1043-answering-the-call-to-become-a-multihyphenate-edutainer-with-dr-candy-campbell-candyca/116 - Escaping the Rabbit Hole with Tracey Maxfield (@maxfield_tracey): https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/116-escaping-the-rabbit-hole-with-tracey-maxfield-maxfield_tracey/#Bonus Ep. – It Is On You To Own You with Delpha Clarke: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/bonus-ep-it-is-on-you-to-own-you-with-delpha-clarke/#M2M Bonus Ep. – Self-Love Paved the Way with Diane Vich: https://www.goingnorthpodcast.com/m2m-bonus-ep-self-love-paved-the-way-with-diane-vich/

In this Tough Girl Podcast EXTRA episode, we catch up with Helen Dainty — solo female cyclist, self-described "full-time global hobo," and one of the most committed long-distance bike travellers you'll ever meet. For the past decade, Helen has spent nine years on the road, travelling exclusively by bicycle and living on around £50 a week. She's cycled across Australia, ridden from London to Nordkapp and back, travelled extensively through the Middle East and North Africa — and in 2025 became the first woman to cycle across Libya. When war in Sudan forced her to abandon an overland route into East Africa, Helen adapted and rerouted — because that's what life on the road demands: flexibility, resilience, and the ability to trust the process. In this episode, we dive into what's happened since we last spoke in January 2022. From navigating complex visa systems (including Algeria and Libya), to travelling with police security details, being detained in Libya, and accepting incredible hospitality through the Warm Showers community — Helen shares the raw, practical realities of long-term cycle touring. We also talk about: The logistics of visas with a British passport Working with visa agents and last-minute plan changes Cycling in Algeria and Libya Budget travel (sticking to AUD $100 per week) Her bike setup — switching from chain to belt drive Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres and long-distance reliability Not collecting souvenirs and living with less Documenting her journey on YouTube (and the time spent editing!) Saying yes to unexpected opportunities Helen also opens up about going through perimenopause and menopause while cycling through deserts — dealing with extreme sadness, brain fog, hot sweats in the middle of the night, and coming out the other side feeling stronger and more balanced. At 47, she believes she has another strong decade of adventure ahead — and she's not slowing down. Looking forward, Helen plans to spend the next two years cycling down the west coast of Africa in an attempt to circle the continent, before eventually heading back towards Australia through Asia. Her advice for women wanting to do something different? Say yes to the opportunity — you can work out the details on the way. Accept without hesitation. Raw, honest, practical and deeply inspiring — this is a powerful catch-up with a woman who has built her entire life around two wheels. ***  New episodes of the Tough Girl Podcast drop every Tuesday at 7 AM (UK time)! Make sure to subscribe so you never miss the inspiring journeys and incredible stories of tough women pushing boundaries.  Do you want to support the Tough Girl Mission to increase the amount of female role models in the media in the world of adventure and physical challenges? Support via Patreon! Join me in making a difference by signing up here: www.patreon.com/toughgirlpodcast.  Your support makes a difference.  Thank you x *** Show notes Who is Helen Catching up since we last spoke Cycling through the Middle East and Africa  TGP Episode - January 2022 -  TGP Extra Episode -  What's changed?! Going back to the start of 2022  Taking the ferry from Turkey to Lebanon  Flying home to surprise her family for Christmas  Setting off toward Iran in 2022  The practical side of travel - visa's, entering and leaving countries (with a British Passport) Saudi Arabia and Oman using a E-visa system  Getting a visa for Algeria - paperwork, needing to be in your home country while applying for the visa, face to face visit to the Embassy in London  Visa's for Libya - not being issues and needing to work with a contact to get a visa  Using a visa agent - Tap Persia  Last minute change of plans and trying to extend a 2 week visa while in the country - which proved impossible  Booking accommodation to get the visa  Cycle touring being a little stressful at times Cycling in Algeria for a few days and what the experience was like Warmshowers hosts  Accepting hospitality  Having an Algerian security detail (police) and what that entails  Needing to trust the process  Having her passport taken off her… Arrested/detained in Libya by the police  Finding affordable accommodation  Tourist sites in Algeria and Libya  Not meeting other bike packers in Libya  How it all happened…. Saying yes to opportunities as they present themselves  Libyan Cycling Centre  Starting to share videos on Youtube and documenting her trips  Working on improving the sound quality  Aiming for 8 min vlogs The time spend editing…. Sticking to her budget of AUD $100 a week The bike, the bike set up and new gear Changing from a chain to a belt drive  Getting a new saddle - Repente  What is a belt drive and needing a specific frame for it and how it works  Why it's popular with long distance tourers  Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires  Not collecting souvenirs  Day to day emotions and loving life on the road Not having any plans to stop cycling  Heading into Western Africa - and taking 2 years to cycle down the coast  Planning to cycle back to Australia through Asia 47 years old - another good decade ahead of her Going through menopause 3/4 years ago Not knowing what was happening in 2021/2022 and not undertaking that she was going through perimenopause  Experiencing extreme sadness and brain fog  Feeling more balanced and having less brain fog, and less depression bouts Having hot sweats in the desert, in the middle of the night  Feeling glad to be on the other side of it Starting to think about bone density  Cycling down the West Coast of Africa  Using this downtime over winter to plan out her route and sort out visa's. Taking her dad to Ethiopia  How to connect with Helen on social media and follow along with her journey  9,570 subscribers on YouTube - wanting to reach 10k!  Final words of advice for women who want to do something different and take on new challenges  Say yes to an opportunity -you can work out the details on the way Accept without hesitation!    Social Media All links: helsonwheels.bio.link   Instagram: @hels.on.wheels  Facebook:  @Helsonwheelswithmlt  Youtube: @helsonwheels 

The ongoing outbreak of hantavirus infections that originated with passengers on the Dutch cruise ship MV Hondius in April has generated concerns across the globe. This very rare occurrence has led to a number of deaths, required quarantining of passengers and prompted emergency responses from public health authorities in multiple countries.  On this episode of Raise the Line from Elsevier, we're tapping the expertise of a leading authority on the subject, Dr. Jamie Childs of Yale University, to provide you with a scientific understanding of hantaviruses and what level of threat is posed by this situation. In short, Dr. Childs believes this is not the start of a pandemic. “The Andes variant involved here is one of the most dangerous hantaviruses, but it is totally controllable with contact tracing.” This timely conversation with host Lindsey Smith is informed by Dr. Childs' decades of hantavirus research as well as learnings from his role leading the CDC's environmental investigation during the landmark 1993 hantavirus outbreak in the Four Corners region of the American Southwest. And be sure to stay tuned to hear his concerns about the factors complicating containment of the current Ebola outbreak in East Africa. Note: this conversation was recorded on May 19th, 2026. Mentioned in this episode: Yale School of Public Health Yale Institute for Global Health If you like this podcast, please share it on your social channels. You can also subscribe to the series and check out all of our episodes at www.osmosis.org/podcast

In this episode Amanda and Bret speak with Jess Wiederholt, founder of Crazy Love Africa, about how adopting children from East Africa inspired her to empower single mothers in Western Uganda through micro-business grants, sisterhood support circles, fair-trade artisan work, and child sponsorships. Hear how a community-centered, dignity-first approach transforms lives, builds local leadership, and offers practical ways listeners can help through shopping fair-trade, sponsoring a student, volunteering, or donating.

In this episode of The Long Form Podcast, Okwir Rabwoni reflects on a life shaped by revolution, ideology, and war across East Africa. After leaving school at 17 to join the National Resistance Army, Rabwoni trained in Libya and Cuba before later joining the Rwandan Patriotic Front during the liberation war in Rwanda at the request of Major Gen. Fred Rwigema. He would later fight in Congo and work alongside Laurent-Désiré Kabila during one of the region's most transformative periods.The conversation explores revolutionary politics, identity, ideology, Uganda-Rwanda relations, the RPF, the NRA, the Congo wars, Pan-Africanism, Patrice Lumumba, Che Guevara, and what has changed between the revolutionary generation of the 1980s and the youth of today. This is a rare insider account of the wars and political movements that reshaped modern East Africa.Sponsors:Threat Informat - https://threatinformant.io/                                               Akagera Medicines- https://www.akageramedicines.com Join our Patreon to enjoy ad-free viewing https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheLongFormPod or support us via our MTN Mobile Money Code 95462 or directly to our phone number: +250795462739Visit Sanny Ntayombya's Official Website: https://sannyntayombya.comProduced by LF Media 

Electric vehicles have a surprisingly long history. Battery-powered cars have existed since 1881. So why did the world choose to spend over a century investing in fossil fuels? Sherrell explores this question with a talk from engineer Doreen Orishaba. Doreen built Africa's first electric vehicle and now runs 100+ electric buses across East Africa. Her success proves that the countries that did not inherit a broken infrastructure may be best positioned to build what comes next. Then digs deeper into the background of electric cars in a TED-ED lesson from Daniel Sperling and Gil Tal.Talks featuredHow to make transportation quieter, cleaner and cheaper | Doreen OrishabaTED-ED: The surprisingly long history of electric cars | Daniel Sperling and Gil Tal Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Admittedly, the so-called "Rush to Africa" conjures up the usual European suspects: France, Belgium, and, of course, Britain. But lesser known is Italy who established its own colony in East Africa in a place they called Eritrea (from the Latin name for the Red Sea that borders it). Today, the capital city of Asmara is a hodgepodge of Romanesque churches, Modernist architecture, and businesses with names in both Italian and Tigrinya (the primary native tongue). Come along with me for a tour of this beautiful country and how the Italians shaped the place it became.

An Ebola outbreak in East Africa prompted travel restrictions and new directives for US-bound flights from the affected region. CNN spoke with Jan. 6 rioters and election deniers who could receive compensation from a new slush fund. Texas Democrats are ramping up efforts to block a candidate who made antisemitic comments ahead of next week's runoff election. CNN obtained the Democratic National Committee's long-awaited report examining 2024 election losses. Plus, we tell you why a radio station in the UK is apologizing to Britain's King Charles III and its listeners.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Could your years of experience be worth more than your salary suggests?Are you at a point in your career where the ladder no longer feels like the only way up?Are you curious about what it would mean to stop putting all of your expertise into one organisation and start using it in ways that work for you?Have you been quietly wondering whether a portfolio career could be your next move but not sure where to begin?In this episode, I share the moment that changed everything for me - coming back from a mission trip in East Africa and sitting at my desk realising the contrast between the impact I'd just been making and the work I was returning to. I didn't want to burn down what I'd built. So instead, I built on the side. And that decision changed everything.A portfolio career isn't a leap into the unknown. It's a smarter way to use what you've already got.What you'll learn in this episode:Your expertise is already an asset. The foundation of any portfolio career is what you already know - not just your job title, but the depth of experience, the problems you've solved, and the value you create every single day. You've been too busy doing the work to notice how much you've accumulated.Building your safety net. A portfolio career gives you income streams and visibility outside your organisation - and in a market full of layoffs and restructures, that's not a distraction from your career, it's an insurance policy for it.Starting small and building smart. A portfolio career isn't a dramatic exit or starting from zero. It's taking what you've already built and intentionally redesigning how you use it. One speaking opportunity, one piece of content, one conversation outside your organisation - that's genuinely all it takes to begin.Send us Fan MailInvest in Yourself and Your Career:Community — Join our Network for mid-career women redesigning what's next in their careersCoaching — Join the Waitlist for The Portfolio Career Academy. Turn Your Expertise Into Multiple Streams of Income & Impact Through Building A Portfolio Career. Join The Waitlist Connect with me!Website: careerchangemakers.comEmail: podcast@careerchangemakers.comLinkedIn:  Janine EsbrandInstagram: @careerchangemakerspodcastCareer Change Makers on Apple Podcasts

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Police are investigating what motivated two teenage suspects to open fire at San Diego's largest mosque. As voters head to the polls in several states today, we'll break down which race is being watched most heavily. The WHO is sounding the alarm over an Ebola outbreak in parts of East Africa. Federal safety investigators are examining why a UPS cargo plane crashed and killed 15 people last year. Plus, a new report on sunscreen effectiveness may surprise you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An iconic Canadian air show is going to be put on pause. The military's Snowbirds squadron will be grounded until at least 2030 amid concerns the planes aren't safe. The current planes were first commissioned by the military in the late 1960s. The plan is to replace them, but it will be years before the new ones arrive.And: Prime Minister Mark Carney is playing down a decision by the Trump Administration to abandon a Canada/U.S. defence panel. The panel has been around since the Second World War, but Carney says he “wouldn't overplay the importance” of the decision.Also: From hantavirus on a cruise ship, to an ebola outbreak in East Africa… is the world ready for the next pandemic? Is Canada? We look at where things stand.Plus: Inflation highest in nearly two years, pushback for U.S. Justice Department's "anti-weaponization fund", Churchill Falls review, and more.

What does thoughtful philanthropy look like when the ambition is to deploy $6 billion over the next 35 years in support of girls' education? In this episode of the Do One Better Podcast, Alberto Lidji speaks with Dana Schmidt, Program Director at Echidna Giving, about the realities of large-scale grantmaking, the responsibility that comes with stewarding significant philanthropic capital, and why supporting girls' education remains one of the most evidence-backed pathways toward long-term social change. Echidna Giving is expanding rapidly, with annual grantmaking projected to grow from roughly $50 million to $200 million. Dana explains why giving money away well is far from straightforward. The conversation explores how funders can remain responsive to grantees, learn continuously, and avoid becoming disconnected from the communities they seek to support. Central to Echidna Giving's approach is a commitment to listening to those closest to the problems, investing in long-term relationships, taking measured risks, and embedding clear values into day-to-day decision making. The discussion also examines how philanthropic organizations can preserve culture and effectiveness while scaling. Dana shares how Echidna Giving formalized guiding principles for its work, used independent grantee perception surveys to gather honest feedback, and saw stronger results even as the organization grew and expanded geographically. A major theme throughout the conversation is proximity. As Echidna Giving has built teams closer to the regions where it works, including East Africa, its grantmaking has evolved. The organization has increased direct engagement with locally led institutions and is supporting efforts to strengthen African-led education research, with the aim of shifting who produces evidence and shapes educational priorities. Dana also outlines the areas where Echidna Giving concentrates its funding, including early childhood, foundational learning, and adolescent girls' education, recognizing these as pivotal moments that influence whether girls remain in school and thrive over the long term. The conversation considers how philanthropy can complement, rather than replace, public systems, acknowledging that governments remain the largest investors in education worldwide. This episode is a thoughtful exploration of effective philanthropy, trust-based grantmaking, systems change, and the challenge of turning substantial resources into meaningful, lasting impact. Visit our Knowledge Hub at Lidji.org for information on 350+ case studies and interviews with remarkable leaders in philanthropy, sustainability and social entrepreneurship.   

In this episode of The Long Form Podcast, Dr. Adonia Ayebare discusses the hidden diplomacy behind the Uganda–Rwanda fallout, regional security in eastern Congo, and the future of Africa in an increasingly unstable global order. As Uganda's Ambassador to the United Nations and a longtime advisor to Yoweri Museveni, Dr. Ayebare offers a rare behind-the-scenes perspective on how power actually works in East Africa and at the UN.The conversation explores the role of Muhoozi Kainerugaba in repairing Uganda–Rwanda relations, the operations of the Uganda People's Defence Force in eastern Congo, the unresolved conflicts in Burundi and the Great Lakes region, and whether multilateral institutions like the United Nations still serve African states fairly. This is a deep discussion on diplomacy, geopolitics, power, conflict, and Africa's future in a world increasingly shaped by force rather than rules.Sponsors:Threat Informat - https://threatinformant.io/                                               Akagera Medicines- https://www.akageramedicines.com Join our Patreon to enjoy ad-free viewing https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheLongFormPod or support us via our MTN Mobile Money Code 95462 or directly to our phone number: +250795462739Visit Sanny Ntayombya's Official Website: https://sannyntayombya.comProduced by LF Media 

Celeste Vogel, CEO and cofounder of eWAKA Mobility, joins us for a conversation recorded live at eWAKA's headquarters in Nairobi, Kenya. Celeste shares the story behind eWAKA, a company at the intersection of transportation and logistics that deploys electric cargo bicycles and motorcycles across East Africa while connecting drivers to financing, delivery jobs, and a full maintenance ecosystem. The conversation traces eWAKA's origins to an unexpected challenge from Celeste's youngest son Noah, who pushed his mother to stop watching problems from a distance and start doing something about them. From working under a tree and operating out of a single shipping container to running a full assembly warehouse, Celeste reflects on what it takes to build a company from scratch in a new country, lead with clarity during rapid growth, and stay grounded through the inevitable hard seasons. It is a warm, energizing conversation about purpose, reinvention, and courage.

The Pour Over is a Christ-first, politically neutral news podcast. Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, we cover the day's biggest stories in ~10 minutes, and pair the biggest headlines with brief biblical reminders. Every Saturday, TPO Explains does a shallow dive into your most-asked questions. On today's episode: Why's everyone talking about UFOs? Join us in praying for East Africa here. Looking to support us? You can choose to pay ⁠here⁠. Get the free newsletter at⁠ thepourover.org⁠. Thanks to our sponsors: Cru: Give Bibles all over the world |  text POUR to 71326 Wild Alaskan: $35 off your first box | code: TPO HelloFresh: 10 Free meals + Free Nutribullet® Ultra Plus+ 2-in-1 Compact Kitchen System on your 3rd box | HelloFresh.com/tpo10fm Christian Real Estate Network: get connected with a Christian Realtor | www.hismove.com Quince: Free shipping | quince.com/tpo Qualia Life: additional 15% off your order | code: TPO CCCU: Apply for the Harvest Bundle | mycccu.com/pourover Upside: extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas | code: TPO LMNT: free 8-pack with purchase | https://links.thepourover.org/LMNT_Podcast The Missing Messiah: Learn more | missingmessiah.com Compelled Podcast: Listen now | CompelledPodcast.com Mosh: 25% off first variety pack + 20% off subscription | code: TPO25 MORE FROM TPO: ⁠Free newsletter⁠ ⁠Watch TPO on YouTube⁠ ⁠Download the TPO App⁠

El Niño typically raises the risk of drought in Central America, Southeast Asia, the Sahel and Southern Africa, while increasing the threat of floods in East Africa and South America, according to the UN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Pour Over is a Christ-first, politically neutral news podcast. Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, we cover the day's biggest stories in ~10 minutes, and pair the biggest headlines with brief biblical reminders. Join us in praying for East Africa ⁠here⁠. Looking to support us? You can choose to pay ⁠here⁠. Get the free newsletter at⁠ thepourover.org⁠. On today's episode: Russia and Ukraine Attempt 3-Day Ceasefire Southern States Make Redistricting Moves The Pentagon Declassifies UFO-Related Files A Frontier Airlines Plane Struck a Pedestrian The U.S. Flies Americans Home from Hantavirus Cruiseliner  The U.S. Fired on Iranian Oil Tankers April Jobs Report Beats Expectations  Cyberattack Takes Over Canvas Thanks to our sponsors: Cru: Give Bibles all over the world |  text POUR to 71326 Wild Alaskan: $35 off your first box | code: TPO HelloFresh: 10 Free meals + Free Nutribullet® Ultra Plus+ 2-in-1 Compact Kitchen System on your 3rd box | HelloFresh.com/tpo10fm Christian Real Estate Network: get connected with a Christian Realtor | www.hismove.com Quince: Free shipping | quince.com/tpo Qualia Life: additional 15% off your order | code: TPO CCCU: Apply for the Harvest Bundle | mycccu.com/pourover Upside: extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas | code: TPO LMNT: free 8-pack with purchase | https://links.thepourover.org/LMNT_Podcast The Missing Messiah: Learn more | missingmessiah.com Compelled Podcast: Listen now | CompelledPodcast.com Mosh: 25% off first variety pack + 20% off subscription | code: TPO25 MORE FROM TPO: ⁠Free newsletter⁠ ⁠Watch TPO on YouTube⁠ ⁠Download the TPO App⁠

May 8, 2026KEITH UNDERHILL,a church planter in Kenya, EastAfrica, for 40 years (1975-2015),who will address:“PLANTED BY THE PROVIDENCE ofGOD: 22 BIBLICAL FOUNDATIONS forCHURCH PLANTING & MISSIONARYWORK” Subscribe: iTunes TuneIn Android RSS Feed Listen:

Hello Interactors,Neuroscience research on narrative shows that stories sharpen attention, improve recall, and recruit shared brain networks that help us organize events into a coherent arc. The trouble, for anyone who works with spatial data, is that the reality on the ground refuses to cooperate with clean narratives despite this inherent bias. Today I look at how the popular telling of how Homo sapiens came to contemplate such things — to become ‘modern' — is not the story the evidence keeps telling.THE LURE OF THE LEAPWe like our origin stories well defined. The popular telling — the Israeli historian Yuval Noah Harari's Sapiens is the bestselling version — locates a moment when archaic humans crossed a threshold and became modern, transformed by some neurological windfall in Africa. But a recent paper by anthropologist Huw Groucutt on Homo sapiens dispersal argues this says more about Homo sapiens' neurological bias toward clean narratives than about the evidence we have.This ‘revolution into modern' frame has traceable historical roots. In the 1960s and 70s, the only deeply excavated record was in a western sliver of the Eurasian landmass called Europe. There, the transition from Neanderthal to Homo sapiens congregations did look abrupt. It was reasonable, given what was known at the time, to read this regional shift as a species-wide threshold — a sudden flowering of cognition and culture. But that reading was a misinterpretation. What Europe records is not a transformation but a replacement where one population arrived as another receded. The arc of change was migration, not metamorphosis.That correction took hold, but the ‘revolution' story, like the species, simply relocated. There would be a coastal revolution in southern Africa, a cognitive revolution in the Rift Valley, a technological revolution in the Levant. The plot survived even as the setting changed.The deeper trouble lies with the word “modern” itself. It is a relic of mid-twentieth-century thinking that anchors humanity to an imagined ethnographic checklist: symbolic art, refined toolkits, complex burials, linguistic competence. These traits are taken to constitute a package, and the package is taken to arrive together. But the evidence keeps refusing this neatness. The traits show up in pulses across regions and disappear again. They appear in populations we have been trained to call “archaic.” They fail to coordinate the way the model demands, and as Groucutt says, provide just“another way of separating ‘us' and ‘them'.”For example at Panga ya Saidi in coastal Kenya, excavators recovered the burial of a child known as Mtoto dated to around 78,000 years ago. It is among the oldest deliberate burials known from Africa, and the kind of behavior usually slotted under “modernity.” Yet there is no continent-wide adoption of similar mortuary practice that follows from it. Burial complexity at Panga ya Saidi appears, then thins, then reappears elsewhere on different terms. It looks less like the leading edge of a wave and more like a local response to local conditions.A second example pulls in the opposite direction. The Iho Eleru skull, recovered in 1965 from a rock shelter in Nigeria, is roughly 13,000 years old — geologically yesterday — yet preserves features that morphologists have long called “archaic.” It refuses to sit in the bin its date implies. The bone is doing something the category cannot absorb.The cost of the revolution model, then, is not that it tells a tidy story. It is that the tidiness encourages researchers to treat their categories as facts of nature rather than instruments of description. Evidence that does not fit the frame gets explained away or quietly set aside. When you stop asking when our ancestors became human and start asking how, across thousands of generations and a shifting climate, particular behaviors were assembled and reassembled in particular places, the data reads very differently.This point is not new. In 2000, Sally McBrearty and Alison Brooks published a paper titled “The revolution that wasn't,” arguing that the complex behaviors taken to define modernity in Europe had appeared in Africa tens of thousands of years earlier, and gradually rather than in a single burst. That correction is over twenty-five years old. The fact that revolution thinking has persisted despite it — and persisted most loudly in popular accounts that sell in the tens of millions — is itself worth taking seriously. Models, like fossils, accumulate where the conditions are right for preservation.The trait-list at the heart of “modernity” is a fragile instrument in its own right. Many of the behaviors taken to mark our species are anchored to ethnographic data on recent hunter-gatherer societies, assumed to provide a baseline for what fully human cultural life looks like. Those datasets have well-known problems; when the archaeologist Robert Kelly examined a portion of Lewis Binford's widely used hunter-gatherer compilation in 2021, he was able to confirm the accuracy of only one percent of the entries. The benchmark we have been measuring the deep past against is, in places, made of sand.PATHS, NOT PIVOTSFor anyone who works with spatial data, the revolution model has a second problem. It ignores the terrain. A revolution, mapped, would look like an expanding circle radiating from a source — like a wildfire expanding from a single ignition point. Human dispersal looks nothing like that. It moves along corridors, hesitates at barriers, doubles back, fragments around resources. It is shaped by climate cycles that open and close routes on millennial timescales. The footprint is irregular because the ground is irregular.Groucutt's argument benefits from a concept that geographers and geomorphologists know well: equifinality. The same observed outcome can result from different processes. A bowl-shaped depression on a hillside can be carved by a glacier, scooped by a landslide, or eroded by a spring undercutting from below. The shape alone does not tell you which. Read the depression as a single signature of a single cause, and you will misjudge its history.The same caution applies to the deep human past. A scatter of similar tool types across regions does not necessarily document a single dispersing population with a shared cognitive package. It may document several populations independently arriving at similar solutions to similar pressures. A flicker of symbolic behavior in two distant places does not imply continuous transmission between them. The archaeological record is dense with cases where the simplest explanation — one cause, one origin — turns out to be the wrong one.A telling example of how revolution thinking distorts spatial evidence comes from a long-running argument about the Levantine sites occupied by Homo sapiens between roughly 130,000 and 75,000 years ago — Skhul, Qafzeh, and others. Did these represent a genuine out-of-Africa dispersal, or were they merely an extension of African ecology into Southwest Asia? In the latter view, our species was so tightly coupled to its native biome that early presence beyond Africa was a kind of optical illusion. One prominent researcher has argued that Israel is outside Africa “only by modern political convention.”But the Levantine mammal fauna of this period is dominated by Palearctic species — deer, gazelle, boar — and has been since at least the Middle Pleistocene. The supposed African flourish at Qafzeh shrinks under examination to a few rare elements, some of them present in the region long before Homo sapiens arrived. “Africa grew” is what the revolution model looks like when biogeography becomes inconvenient. Rather than accept that early Homo sapiens dispersed beyond the continent before achieving full “modernity,” the frame extends the boundary of “Africa” to wherever the species happens to be. The terrain bends to match the model.This is where genomic evidence becomes interesting and dangerous in roughly equal measure. Ancient DNA has transformed what can be reconstructed about population structure, and the resolution is genuinely impressive. But the analytic culture around that data has often defaulted to event-style narratives: a bottleneck here, a split there, a discrete mixture of pulses at a specific date. These tidy events, plotted on a tree, recover the satisfactions of the revolution at a different scale. They imply that the past has crisp joints, making“claims for events which never actually occurred.”The caution Groucutt raises is that population structure across the deep African past was probably continuous, regionally varied, and persistently interconnected — closer to a braided river than a branching tree. Apparent “events” in the genetic record may be artifacts of how the analysis is framed rather than discrete moments in time. Treating them as facts encourages claims of historical specificity the underlying signal cannot bear. Equifinality applies to genomes too. Different histories of structure and gene flow can produce overlapping statistical signatures.What follows, methodologically, is a shift in what models are expected to do. Instead of identifying the moment, the route, or the founding population, the task becomes mapping a field of overlapping processes whose visibility varies by region, by preservation, and by the history of where archaeologists have chosen to dig. That is a less satisfying answer than a date and a place, but it's closer to what the evidence supports.MANY CLOCKS, MANY PASTS, MANY THREADSThe physicist Carlo Rovelli, in The Order of Time, makes an observation that time is not a universal river running at one rate everywhere. It is local and relational. This is not intuitive but matches reality. Atomic clocks at different elevations tick at measurably different rates because gravity dilates time. There is no master clock against which “now” is defined for the whole universe.The revolution model assumes the opposite. It imagines a master clock striking modernity for the species at a particular moment — perhaps in East Africa, perhaps a hundred thousand years ago, perhaps fifty — after which a transformed humanity disperses outward. The image is compelling because it is simple. It is also, as a model of history, incongruent with reality. The record Groucutt reviews shows differently timed histories running in parallel across Africa, Arabia, Eurasia, and Sahul, with regional sequences that do not synchronize. There is no single instant at which the species, taken as a whole, became what it now is. There are only many local trajectories that we have, in retrospect, gathered under one name.One sign that the revolution frame is still doing harm is that the three main streams of evidence — fossil morphology, archaeology, and ancient DNA — currently tell stories that do not align. The dispersal chronology reconstructed from genetic data alone is not the dispersal chronology of the lithic archaeology of northern Eurasia, and neither matches the fossil record of Asia and Sahul. These are not minor discrepancies at the margins. They are different shapes of history. The temptation, encountering this, is to declare one stream definitive and explain the others away. The harder course is to take the disagreement as evidence. What it is telling us is that the histories these methods recover are partial, regionally weighted, and pitched at different temporal resolutions. There is no master clock available to bring them into sync because there was never a master event for them to be synchronized to.This is closer to what might be called emplacement than to revolution. Homo sapiens did not arrive in time as a finished product and then unfold into space. The species emerged through space — through specific landscapes, specific corridors, specific neighbors — and continued to be shaped by them long after any putative threshold. Cognition, technology, and social practice were not delivered together and then carried outward. They were assembled, lost, and reassembled in different combinations under different pressures. Whatever it is that we now point to as the human condition is the cumulative residue of that long, polycentric making. In Groucutt's terms, they are“polycentric and mosaic.”Letting go of the revolution story is uncomfortable because it removes the heroic frame that has organized so much storytelling about ourselves. There is no founding spark, no anointed lineage, no first true human. What remains is harder to compress into a sentence. It is also more honest, and more interesting. The work ahead — for archaeologists, geneticists, geographers, and anyone who builds models of the deep past — is to map the complexity of the terrain rather than identify a single point. To trace the connections that hold the picture together rather than the moment at which the picture was supposedly painted.The mosaic is no runner-up to the revolution. It is the record itself — rough, regional, and real. We need only learn to read it.References:Groucutt, H. S. (2026). Revolution, modernity, and the dispersal of Homo sapiens beyond Africa. Quaternary Science Reviews. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit interplace.io

Dini hizi ambazo zimechukua sehemu kubwa ya maisha yetu, zilitoka wapi? Video hii inagusia ujio wa dini ya kiislamu na kikristo kwenye ukanda wa East Africa. Tazama kisha ushiriki mawazo yako. Asante

:Pastor Nelson Odhiambo narrowly escaped the infamous Legion Maria Cult of East Africa after 20 years. Christ intercepted him before he was exalted in ranks. His story will change you. Join him to rescue others! For support/DonationNote it's for Pastor Nelson PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted...Support this Platform: We Need to TalkJoin this channel to get access to perks:   / @weneed2talktv  FIRE SESSIONS (LIVE PRAYER ONCE A MONTH) https://www.skool.com/we-need-to-comm...Financially Support this Podcast:$TheAzonwusPayPal: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted...Zelle: fwdprodinc@gmail.com Social media: Wordsbyezekiel Wenned2tlkpodcastListen to all podcast episodes:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0TKwMpq...FREEDOM GUIDEhttps://preview.mailerlite.io/forms/2...Join Band of Brothers Men's Grouphttps://bandofbrothersintl.org/Book Us for an Event: http://www.wordsbyezekiel.com/bookeze...Merch: Wordsbyezekiel.com/shop Submit Your Story for a chance to feature - Email 5-10 min VIDEO LINK to: TheAzonwus@gmail.com

We are sitting on a goldmine and most of us don't even know it. Uganda has the rain. The soil. The land. The climate that the whole world envies. And yet, we are importing the food we should be growing ourselves.Joel Ssenjala, Country Manager of Holland Greentech, a man who has spent over a decade in the trenches of Uganda's agricultural sector, shares what will make you angry, inspired, and ready to act.

In this episode of The Long Form Podcast, Ugandan veteran politician and NRM stalwart Captain Mike Mukula shares a rare insider perspective on the events that shaped modern Rwanda and East Africa. From his early interactions with Paul Kagame and Fred Rwigema before 1990, to witnessing the aftermath of the Rwandan Civil War and 1994 Genocide against the Tutsi, Captain Mukula offers a firsthand account of pivotal moments in African history.The conversation explores the lived reality of Rwandan refugees in Uganda, the role of the Rwandan Patriotic Front, and what it takes to create stability in volatile regions like northern Uganda and Karamoja. We also examine the hidden costs of stability, the use of force versus dialogue, and the future of leadership in Uganda and East Africa.This is a deep discussion on power, conflict, regional politics, and the decisions that shaped Rwanda, Uganda, and the Great Lakes region.Sponsors:Threat Informat - https://threatinformant.io/                                               Akagera Medicines- https://www.akageramedicines.com Join our Patreon to enjoy ad-free viewing https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheLongFormPod or support us via our MTN Mobile Money Code 95462 or directly to our phone number: +250795462739Visit Sanny Ntayombya's Official Website: https://sannyntayombya.comProduced by LF Media 

Clayton interviews Kennedy Kirui, founder and executive director of the University Discipleship Movement (UDM) in East Africa. Kennedy shares about reaching and discipling Gen Z, the importance of presence and authentic leadership, and the exciting movement of African students stepping into cross-cultural missions. 

In this Omni Talk Retail interview, recorded live from day two of World Retail Congress 2026 in Berlin, Chris Walton talks with Andreas von Paleske, CEO of Naivas, about scaling one of East Africa's fastest-growing grocery retailers while balancing operational discipline, employee development, and technology transformation. Drawing from his background in private equity, Andreas shares how Naivas grew from roughly 30 stores to more than 100 locations by focusing on affordable groceries, strong store execution, and long-term investment in frontline employees. The conversation explores why career development and internal promotion have become critical differentiators for the company, especially in a market where modern grocery retail is still rapidly evolving. The discussion also dives into how Naivas is approaching AI, customer data, and operational efficiency. Andreas explains how the retailer is using loyalty insights, demand planning, and planogram optimization to improve store performance while freeing employees from repetitive tasks so they can spend more time serving customers directly. Throughout the interview, one message stands out clearly: technology works best when it strengthens people, not replaces them. Key Topics Covered: • How Naivas grew from 30 stores to more than 100 across Kenya • Why affordable groceries and operational discipline drive growth • The importance of investing in frontline employees and career development • How Naivas promotes more than 99% of leaders internally • Why modern grocery retail is still underpenetrated across East Africa • How loyalty data is shaping merchandising and customer insights • The role AI can play in demand planning and planogram optimization • Why retail employees should spend more time serving customers • How fresh produce and store experience drive customer loyalty • Why Andreas believes AI is an opportunity, not a threat, for retail workers Thank you to Vusion for supporting Omni Talk Retail's live coverage from World Retail Congress 2026. #WRC2026 #WorldRetailCongress #OmniTalkRetail #GroceryRetail #RetailInnovation #AIinRetail #CustomerExperience #RetailLeadership #RetailStrategy #FutureOfRetail

What does success in church planting actually look like?In this special crossover episode between the Expositors Collective and Cultivate podcasts, Mike Neglia speaks with Brian Kelly about the realities of planting and pastoring a church. Brian brings over twenty years of experience in church planting and mission work across East Africa, New Zealand, and the United States, along with firsthand involvement in multiple church plants and sending many others into ministry.Together they discuss the weight that comes with planting a church, why the language of “planting” is a better metaphor than a startup model, and how pastors should think more like gardeners than entrepreneurs. Drawing on insights from The Pastor as Gardener: A Renewed Vision for Ministry by Matthew Erickson, the conversation explores the slow, patient work of cultivating spiritual growth in a church community.They also talk about the importance of planting teams, the role of families in ministry, the perseverance required to stay the course, and how initiatives like Cultivate seek to train, mentor, and support new church planters.Whether you are planting a church, pastoring an existing congregation, or preparing for future ministry, this conversation offers wisdom, realism, and encouragement about what faithful ministry really looks like.Find out more about Cultivate here: https://cultivatechurchplanting.com/Upcoming Training WeekendMay 15th-16th, 2026 at Reliance Church in Temecula, CaliforniaTake advantage of early bird pricing until April 26th – only $140 per person!Register Today!The Expositors Collective is a network of pastors, leaders, and laypeople which exists to equip, encourage, and mentor the next generation of Christ-centered preachers. What to expect:In this interactive training weekend, attendees will hear insightful lectures, participate in Q&A panels, meet in small groups with a seasoned mentor, build ongoing relationships, and participate in a studying/teaching practicum.Who should attend:Christ-following men and women of all ages, ministry experience, and church backgrounds who are students of Scripture and desire to grow as teachers of the Word. Whether you're a regular Bible teacher or have never taught the Bible in a public setting before, this training weekend offers invaluable tools to equip you in your journey.ConnectJoin our private Facebook group to continue the conversation: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ExpositorsCollective

In 1917, with Paul von Lettow‑Vorbeck's forces fighting a desperate guerrilla campaign in East Africa and supplies running dangerously low, the German Navy proposed an almost unbelievable solution. They would send a single airship from Bulgaria on a nonstop, one‑way mission across the Mediterranean, over enemy territory, and deep into the African interior. It was one of the most daring and least‑known operations of World War I. To explore the story of the Africa Ship, the World War I Podcast hosted historian and author Dominic Etzold, author of The Africa Ship: Ludwig Blockholt, Zeppelin L 59, and the Most Daring Rescue Mission of World War I. Have a comment about this episode? Send us a text message! (Note: we can read texts, but we cannot respond.) Follow us:Twitter: @MacArthur1880 Amanda Williams on Twitter:  @AEWilliamsClarkFacebook/Instagram: @MacArthurMemorialwww.macarthurmemorial.org 

In this special presentation for Just World Educational's Iran Crisis series, Helena Cobban, the president of Just World Ed, delivered a pre-recorded talk for the Mount Diablo Peace and Justice Center conference in Orinda, California, on April 25th. Unable to attend in person and having to record her remarks more than 24 hours before they would be delivered, she chose to take a long historical view of the crisis by tracing the Strait of Hormuz across 5,000 years of human history. She traced Hormuz's  origins as a key node connecting the formative ancient civilizations in the Indus Valley and Mesopotamian, and as a central artery in the vast Indian Ocean trading zone that once stretched from East Africa to China. She described that pre-European world as a thriving, self-governed commercial network with its own norms and technologies, drawing on the work of historian Janet Abu-Lughod. She then walked through the entry of five European imperial powers into that world: Portugal, Spain, England, the Netherlands, and France. She described what she called the "White Supremacist International," a succession of empire-building ventures driven by profit, looting, and the rise of finance capitalism. She traced Portugal's violent seizure of Hormuz in 1507 under Afonso de Albuquerque, followed by the London-based East India Company's takeover of the port in 1622, and drew direct parallels between those colonial methods and what Israel is doing in Palestine and Lebanon today. Cobban closed by urging viewers to work toward curbing Western military power and ending the war.Support the show

PRACTICAL Wisdom for Parenting Adult Children with Dr. Gary Chapman (Episode 291)   John 15:5 NIV ““I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”   *Transcription Below*   Dr. Gary Chapman is an experienced and well-respected family counselor, and a well-known author having written more than forty books. He hosts a nationally syndicated radio program, A Love Language Minute, and a Saturday morning program, Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, that air on more than 400 stations.   The 5 Love Languages, one of Chapman's most popular titles, topped various bestseller charts for years. It has been published in more than 50 languages, sold more than 14 million copies and is currently on the New York Times best-seller list. Dr. Chapman has been directly involved in real-life family counseling for more than 40 years.   Dr. Chapman holds B.A. and M.A. degrees in anthropology from Wheaton College and Wake Forest University, respectively. He received his Ph.D. degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and has taken postgraduate work at the University of North Carolina and Duke University.   Dr. Chapman and his wife, Karolyn, have been married for more than 45 years and reside in Winston- Salem, N.C. The Chapmans have two grown children, Shelley and Derek.   5 Love Languages Website   Thank you to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank   Questions and Topics We Cover: Are there any other practical things we can be doing now, while our children are still in the home, that ideally sets us up for a healthy relationship once they launch out of our home?  For parents approaching the new season of parenting young adults, what are the best practices for navigating this transition? If we do find ourselves in a season where our adult child and maybe his/her family is living with us, what guidelines do you suggest to honor both parties?   Previous Episodes of the Savvy Sauce with Dr. Gary Chapman: 85 Five Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman 182 Things I Wish I'd Known Before My Child Became a Teenager with Dr. Gary Chapman 191 Friendships Heal Racial Divides with Dr. Clarence Shuler and Dr. Gary Chapman 220 Cultivating Healthy Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman   Related Articles: Family Discipleship Tools My 10 Favorite Parenting Books How Can I Enjoy My Kids More?   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*‍ ‍   Music: (0:00 - 0:11)   Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 2:04) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger. I'm so glad you're here.   Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank, who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.   Dr. Gary Chapman is my amazing returning guest. I'm going to link to his other episodes on The Savvy Sauce, where we've covered a variety of topics, from the five love languages in marriage or in families, parenting teenagers, and just overall creating a loving home and family environment.   But today, we're going to actually focus on a later stage of life, parenting adult children. Whenever I get a chance to talk with Dr. Gary Chapman, he just oozes wisdom on every topic that we've covered, and I know you're going to feel the same way after concluding the message today. I've just noticed this theme that anytime I talk to somebody who's a few seasons ahead of me, they consistently said the same thing, that their hardest stage of parenting was parenting adult children.   And that shocked me, so I wanted to seek out the wisdom of somebody who's gone before us and bring in this expert who can give us wise counsel so that all of us can delight in parenting well and enjoying all of the seasons. Dr. Gary Chapman is going to do exactly that today.   Here's our chat. Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Dr. Chapman.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (2:04 - 2:07) Well, thank you. I'm delighted to be with you again.   Laura Dugger: (2:07 - 2:40) Well, our main topic for today is going to be about parenting adult children, especially after completing your amazing resource. But I think it'd first be helpful to back up a little bit and just have you share how we can be proactive now while our children are still in the home. If we're hoping to have wonderful relationships when we launch our children, when they're grown adults.   So, can you just start off by sharing the dangers of both under-parenting and over-parenting?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (2:41 - 7:35) Well, I think, first of all, as parents, we have to keep in mind we have 18 years. Because in our culture at 18, they're typically going to college, get a job or join the military. So, we have to be thinking independence.   That is doing everything we can to help them to be able to take care of themselves. And when we're not around. So, first of all, I think it means that we need to make sure we are expressing love to them in a way that's meaningful to them.   That our children feel loved. I've often said to parents, the question is not, do you love your children? The question is, do your children feel loved?   And that's where the five love languages of children and the five-love language of teenagers has helped so many parents realize what makes one child feel loved doesn't make another child feel loved. So, you have to discover their love language and on a regular basis be speaking that love language to them. I think another factor is that I would encourage parents, especially if they're in the teenage years or 10 and up, have maybe once a month have breakfast with one child.   Take them out to breakfast, just one child, so that you can talk about whatever they want to talk about. And you can talk about whatever you want to talk about. But if they know that that's a part of life and that's where they can ask you questions when nobody's around, and you can have conversations with them.   I just found that with my own kids. That was great. And they say to me, they look back on that as a very positive experience, is having that individual time with me.   Of course, we only had two children. Now, if you have five children, and I only did it once a month, but five once a month would be every week, I guess. But it's just an idea.   But I think if they feel loved, and they feel like that we're a safe place where they can talk about and ask questions about things, and we can talk openly, that's a big part of getting them ready. The other thing that I've suggested to couples is, what if you make a list? And if your children are 10 or up, let them help you make a list of all the things they would like to know how to do by the time they're 18.   And some of them may say, well, I'd like to learn how to cook, or I'd like to learn how to boil eggs. Or I might like to learn how to take a tire off of my car, put it back on, put the spare on. Amazing, you know, what they might want to do.   And that may vary with each child. But you ought to think in terms of what would you like for them to be able to do. And then you want to be working on those things while they're still with you.   If you want them to be able to make up their own bed, you can start that at five years old. You know, by the time they get to be 18, they got it down. If you don't want them to know how to make up a bed, then they're going to go to college and never make up a bed. And they're going to get married and never make up a bed.   And if they marry somebody that thinks a bed ought to be made up, then they got a conflict. So, it can be little things like that.   But I do think that for most parents, they would hope that the children will learn a little bit about cooking. You know, because we have to eat. And it's an advantage.   Anybody that gets married is happy if they marry somebody that knows how to cook. Whether it's the husband or the wife. So, I think that's a huge issue.   But keeping the flow of communication open with the children so that they feel like they're safe with you. That they can communicate with you. That is huge.   And I'll be very honest; there are a lot of parents that don't do that. They're so involved in their work and in other activities that they don't really talk with their kids very much. You know, they might watch a ball game together or something, but they don't really talk about life.   And consequently, when the kids go off and they don't feel a real attachment to you, they're far more out there on their own now. And they're likely going to have more problems than if they had a close connection with you. Because if they have a close connection, even in college, they'll ask you questions.   They'll communicate with you. And communication is the lifeblood of relationship. So, anything you can do to foster that. Wonderful.   Laura Dugger: (7:37 - 8:03) So great. I love those practical tips for what we can be doing now. And I'm just curious, with all of your travels and speaking around the world, and throughout the decades, just seeing changes, do you have any caution for parents of what to avoid or even what to focus on currently to set them up well for their relationship in the future with their adult child?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (8:04 - 10:42) I think one is talking to them about what they think they might like to do when they grow up. Having those kinds of conversations. And what that might look like.   Because our daughter, for example, when she was eight years old, said to us, “When I grow up, I'm going to be a doctor.” And we said, “Well, honey, if that's what God wants, then that would be fine.” But in high school, she took four years of Latin.   Three years of chemistry in high school. She was serious. And so, if they say they want to be something, then you have to help them think about what kind of requirements would that be to do what you're thinking about doing.   And another thing would be to, in high school, let them have conversations with somebody that you might know in your church or your circle that does that. If they think they'd like to be a businessperson, for example, or sell cars, or run a business, or try to have a conversation. And most adults who are in a business or who are doing anything, they'd be happy to talk to a teenager that thinks they'd like to do this.   And that person can give them great advice in terms of what you might be doing now in high school and what you might do if you go to college and all that sort of thing. So, I think because vocation is a huge part of life. And I think the other thing, of course, is we need to be sharing our faith.   If we're Christians, we need to be sharing our faith with them. And to me, that means things like the very beginning, as early as you can start it, having a devotional time for the whole family every night. And what my wife and I did when they're just all the way along, one of us would go to the bed with them when we put them to bed and get on our knees beside the bed and pray with them.   And if they get older, then they start praying. But when they see when we teach them our faith, and of course, having them involved in a church and all that sort of thing is so very helpful to kids. And in the teenage years, for them to have a place to go and do things with other Christian kids.   Again, you know, the church can't raise kids. That's our responsibility. But the church can be a real source of help with our children, where they can interface and have other people that are teaching them things about God and about life.   So, all of that, I think, is important.   Laura Dugger: (10:43 - 11:22) I love that. I'm hearing themes of open communication both ways, where we're sharing and imparting and discipling, but they're also expressing their wants or needs or desires. And I think also a theme of purpose, instilling purpose in them, which gives a great vision for long term.   But now let's speak to parents who are approaching this new season of maybe their teenager turning 18 or moving out. And now the parents are finding themselves transitioning to parenting young adults. So, what are the best practices for navigating this transitional season?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (11:23 - 15:48) Well, that's why I wrote this book. Because a lot of parents' struggle. And some over parent, you know, after they moved out, they over parent.   They want to keep talking with them every single day and tell them what they ought to be doing and all that kind of stuff. And the child feels like, you know, I can do some things on my own, you know. And then some are under parent.   They just, if they go to college, they go to college. They might talk to them once a week or something, you know. So, I think we have to just think in terms of what feels good for the child, you know.   Because you to call them when you don't know their schedule, you probably have a hard time. Far better to ask them, how would you like to talk for us to talk? And when would be a good time in your schedule that you could call us, you know.   So, I think working out some things about how much contact we're going to have because they want a sense of freedom. And they should have. And we've been training them for independence.   So, but we also want to keep in contact with them. We want to, you know, have some ongoing time with them. And depending on now many times today, they're living at home while they go to college.   So, you have an extended opportunity. To have an influence on their lives. But that's where you have to talk about, now what's our pattern going to be?   Because you're going off to college, but you're going to be coming home every night to be here. And we're happy about that, you know. If that's what you want to do.   Obviously it's saving money for the parents because they don't have to pay for a dorm room. So, but we talk about, you know, can we agree on kind of a bedtime? Because if you're out at one o'clock, you know, I have a hard time sleeping.   Because you just, you know, I think, wonder what's happened to them, you know. So, could we have a kind of a set time that you shoot to be home? And if you realize there's something turned up, you would call me.   You call one of us and say, you know, I know I normally get home at whatever time, but right now this is what's happened. So, I need to do this and all. Okay, honey, okay.   That's fine. You don't want to over control them. But if you're going to be home, you have to think about yourself as well as them.   Because you've got a life to live. Your life has to go on while they're developing their new lifestyle. So, I think conversations again, it's really important at that stage of life.   And keeping in contact but not over controlling them. And I'd say make suggestions rather than like giving your advice. You know, just to say, you know, you ought to do this.   Or maybe now they're looking for a job, you know. And you say, well, you ought to get that, you ought to get that resume sent in today if you want to get a job. And now you're putting pressure on them, you know.   But you could say just as easily, you know, one suggestion that I'd suggest that you think about is maybe getting in your application as soon as possible. Because probably the sooner you get it in, the more likely you might, you know, be able to get the job. So rather than telling them what they need to do, make suggestions rather than demands.   Because again, we want to foster independence. We don't want to control their lives. We want them to be free to make decisions.   But if they ask advice, it's fine. Give them advice if they ask advice. If they don't, it's okay to give them a suggestion.   But give it as a suggestion, not as something, well, you ought to do this, you know. So, we don't want to over-control them. Otherwise, we're really going to push them away.   No young person wants to be over-controlled by their parents. And yet, they need our input. And if we have a positive relationship, they'll probably ask us for our input, you know. It's a good relationship.   Laura Dugger: (15:50 - 17:50) I think that really requires humility on both sides. And that's great and worthwhile to cultivate that in any phase of life. ‍ ‍   And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need. Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America, the resources actually do exist.   That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched. Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty.   This ministry reaches millions of people every year and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, costs of leadership, oversight, and other administrative expenses. Donations, volunteers, and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank.   To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today.   Also, Dr. Chapman, have you noticed any universal challenges or frustrations from both sides, from adult children and the parents who have raised them just in that phase of life, maybe things that we can be prepared for?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (17:50 - 23:36) Yeah. Well, I think one thing is that there are a lot of young adults who feel like their parents are trying to control their lives and that's not a positive thing. I think there are a lot of parents that are very disturbed over the decisions their young adult children are making.   And this is hard. I can understand that. It's hard.   When you see them, for example, telling you, I've decided not to go to church this semester or I've decided, I don't think I want to go to church anymore. Well, you come down hard on them and say, now, da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da. You're just pushing them away.   Far better to ask questions. That's interesting, honey. What leads you to say that?   And then just keep asking questions. Keep asking questions. And then I think we have to do what God does.   We have to give them freedom. And we can honestly say, after we've listened to them and they tell us why, we can say, well, you know, it's your decision, honey. I mean, you're an adult now and it's your decision.   You know that. I'm not real happy about it, but it's your life. And, you know, again, whatever kind of relationship you've had with them spiritually and how you shared with them spiritually is going to have an impact here.   But I think parents have a hard time when their children make decisions that hurt them. You know whether it's moral decisions or whether it's spiritual decisions or whatever the decision. But what we don't want to do is cut them off.   Because if we say, “Well, if that's the lifestyle you're going to live, I don't want you in my house anymore.” And there are parents that have said those kinds of things. Now you've lost all opportunity to have a positive influence on them. And it was your choice.   Now, if they break off from you, and this happens a lot too, where a parent, a child is deciding a lifestyle that they know their parents don't like. And the parents have come down on them really hard.   And every time they get together, they're preaching them a sermon. And the adult child says, well, I'm just not going to have contact with you. Every time I come home, you're on my case.   I'm not going to answer your phone. And I'm not going to answer your text. Well, again, we can't keep them from doing that.   But what we want to do is to try to keep the relationship open and not demanding things of them so that they won't cut us off. Because if they cut us off or we cut them off, we've lost opportunity to have an impact on their lives.   So even if we disagree with them, and as I said, “God gives his children freedom. If you want to disobey God, you can. You'll suffer the consequences, but you can.” And we have to give them the same freedom.   And we can say things like, honey, it hurts me that you're choosing to do that. But I want you to know that I love you. And I will love you no matter what.   And I will pray for you. I love you. And if you ever want to talk further about this, I'd be happy to talk further with you.   But I love you, even though I disagree, obviously, with what you're choosing. But that kind of approach is far healthier. And chances are, listen, the prodigal son's father didn't go out there trying to bring him back.   He waited till God brought his son to the pig pen. And if they're making poor decisions, they're going to end up in the pig pen. But now, they've got a picture in their mind of a parent who loved them.   And they do what the prodigal son did. I'd be better off working on the farm at home than out here in the pig pen. And they come home.   And, you know, they come home often with regret. And then we receive them back. And now we're reunited.   Now we've got another chance here. But I think as parents, you know, we're so concerned. And I understand that.   And we should be concerned. And we want them to make wise decisions and make lifestyle choices that we know are healthy and we know are right. And it breaks our heart when they're not.   But because out of our pain, we often make poor decisions ourselves. You know, we retreat them in a way that's negative and condemning and demanding. And so, they walk away.   Far better to express the truth about how you feel. They already know they're hurting you. But you express it to them.   But you let them know I love you and I will always love you no matter what you do. Now you've kept the door open.   Laura Dugger: (23:38 - 24:01) And I think the fruit of the spirit that really stands out in that response is gentleness and that that would go a long way. But also, if we are at that phase of parenting adult children, a lot of times around that time comes grandparenting as well. So, do you have any wise counsel for grandparents?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (24:02 - 27:21) Yeah, I would say. And again, a lot depends on how close you are physically. If you live in North Carolina where I live and your grandkids live in Portland, Oregon, that's one thing, you know.   But if you live in the same town as a grandparent, you might be keeping them after school when they get out of school. You know, the kids, you were keeping them. Now they're, you know, of course, they grow up.   But I think grandparents can play a key role in the lives of children. And the earlier it starts, the better. And even if they do live far away, you can still have contact.   Now we can do FaceTime. We can see them. They can see us.   You know, you can do that when they're four years old or three years old. So, I think having that kind of contact if they live away from you is really, really good. And you can even play games, you know, online with them at different stages and all.   So, the more you do when they're little to build a bond between them, the more likely they are when they get older to keep in contact with you. For example, my granddaughter, who is 25 now, she calls her grandmother, my wife, she calls her every Sunday afternoon at three o'clock. And if she, if something in her work schedule or whatever doesn't allow it, she'll send her a text and say, Grandma, I can't call you at three today, but I'm going to call you at five because of da-da-da-da-da.   That's absolutely wonderful, you know. And so, I think we build that relationship when they're young and chances are as grandparents, then we will have a positive contact with them as they grow up in the future. And again, we're not, we have to remember as grandparents, two things.   Number one, I'm not the parent. The parents are the ones who set the rules. But I am a grandparent.   And so, when they're at my house, I'm not going to violate the parent's rules. Whatever the rules are of the parents, that's okay. But we're going to do some things, you know, when we're together that maybe your parents don't do with you.   Maybe they don't take walks. Maybe they don't take you to the park. Again, depending on the age, you know.   But if you live close as they grow up, you try to stay involved in their activities. If they're into sports or if they're in a play at school, as grandparents, you try to go to those things, you know, which communicates to them, man, they care about me. So, the more you can be involved in their lives when they're young, the better the chances are that you will have a positive relationship with them when they get to be adults.   And again, I think grandparents can have a tremendous impact on their grandchildren.   Laura Dugger: (27:22 - 28:34) I completely agree and it's fascinating sometimes to see the same lesson that we're trying to teach as parents. Sometimes it just takes one grandparent to reiterate that or to share it and it clicks for our kids. So, there is a supernatural, even anointing, it seems, on that relationship.   Do you love The Savvy Sauce? Do you gain anything when you listen? Did you know that the two ways we earn money to keep this podcast live is through generous contributions from listeners?   And from our paying sponsors? That means we can promote your business and you're still supporting The Savvy Sauce. It's a win-win.   Please email us today at info at the SavvySauce.com to inquire about pricing for sponsoring each episode. Thank you for your consideration.   Is there also any research that you've come across for factors that set adult children up well to be healthy in their relationships and independent from relying on their parents and just well-adjusted overall?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (28:35 - 32:49) You know, I don't know specific research percentages and that sort of thing, but I do know that there's an awful lot of young adults today that are not mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally healthy. And there's a lot of reasons for that because many young adults have grown up in homes where their parents divorced and that's had a tremendous impact on them. And loneliness is a pandemic on college campuses today all over the country where the students feel isolated.   They don't have not made friends at the university and they don't know how to have relationships. Many times, they've been on the cell phone and online. Their whole life is connected to the screen and they don't know, they don't have social skills.   They don't know how to have conversations. So, which is really sad. And sometimes grandparents can step in when parents maybe, you know, are for whatever reason not stepping in.   Sometimes, of course, one of the parents has died. Sometimes one of the parents has problems that limit what they can do. And grandparents can step in and be an adult figure who relates to this young adult and has an open door at their house.   You can always come to grandma's, you know, that kind of thing. So, it's a troubled, it's a troubled world for young adults today. And many times, they have a hard time getting a job and they move back home with their parents.   And, and because many of them can't afford an apartment. So, if they get a job, you know, and they can come back home and live with the parents, that's going to help them and make it possible for them to survive. And so, as parents, even though, you know, we all think of a time that we're going to have an empty nest, when they come back, see it as another opportunity just to have a positive impact on them.   But I would suggest that when they move back in that situation, you have conversations from the very beginning on how can we organize this now because you're an adult now. It's not like you're a child. But how can we organize it so that it's good for everybody and so that, you know, you feel good about it, we feel good about it.   Now, we're not going to charge you rent because we know that's, you know, but you are going to be back in the family now. So, let's think in terms of like, you know, what kind of chores could you do that would be helpful to us? And what can we do that would be helpful to you?   And let's talk about schedules and, you know, just talk about whatever you can think that you'd like to discuss so that each of you have an idea of how this is going to work rather than nobody talking about it, but the parents have ideas of what it ought to be like, but the adult child has ideas of what it ought to be like and they're different. And so, you end up in conflict with each other. Far better to have open conversations to start with .   And we can change it if we need to. We can talk about it again in two months and see if it's working or not working. But this is also teaching them a skill on how to relate to people because all of life they're going to be relating to people.   So, that can be a positive thing and not a negative thing. But, again, sometimes this becomes real contentious because the parents pictured one thing, the young adult pictures another thing, and it becomes an adversarial kind of situation.   Laura Dugger: (32:51 - 33:43) Well, and you even address that in your book. You share some guidelines for both parties. And so, I'll list these off.   Feel free to elaborate if there are any that you want to say more about. But you recommend clarifying those expectations and maintaining open communication, balancing freedom and responsibility, honoring your moral values I think you give, for instance, if you're a Christian and your adult child does not want to go to church or have their children go to church, how to navigate that, considering your own physical and mental health, setting time limits and goals, being pleasant and firm, and then you also talk about how to deal with anger. So, is there anything you'd want to elaborate on that?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (33:43 - 37:16) I think all of those things are important. You know, just remember now, as parents, it is your house and your moral values, you know, you want to have them respect that. For example, if you do not do alcohol at all, you need to say to them, now honey, you know that we don't drink alcohol if you think they do.   So, don't bring alcohol in the home. Okay? Can we just agree on that?   If you drink a beer, that's you, somewhere else, but don't do it here because we just don't like that. You know, that's fine. It's your house.   They're adults. So, and they'll respect that. They'll respect that.   So, I think, you know, and again, you just say, we're not going to make you go to church because you're an adult. That's your decision. If you would like to go to church, you know, there is a young adult group at our church that I think you might fit into and you might feel good about.   You know, you can try it out and see what you think. Or if you have a church that doesn't offer that, you can say, you know, I don't think our church has a young adult group, but there is a church in town that I understand has a really good young adult group. So, you might want to visit that church and kind of plug into that and see what you think.   You know, so we're not, again, demanding that they, you know, go to our church with us every Sunday, but we are trying to help them and give them some possibilities, you know, what they might do. So, all those things are really important. And I think setting some limits and goals also to say, how long do you think it might be before, I know you want to, I know you want to be independent.   Someday you may want to get married. I don't know, but how long do you think it might take before you would, you know, be able to, you know, find your own place or whatever? It doesn't matter to us, but I'm just thinking out loud with you so we can all kind of have some goals and things that we can have in the back of our minds.   We can change them later if we want to but talking to those kinds of things like that is helpful because both of you then have a framework in which to, you know, and maybe they're coming back. Maybe they drop out of college and they're back home because they don't have a job. They don't have anywhere to go.   And so to talk about, you know, maybe what could be done while you are here that might prepare you for a job, you know, and let them share the kind of job they might have an interest in and then see if there's a local technical school that's teaching, you know, people how to do that particular thing, you know, find out about it and say, well, you know, this course is available and we would be willing to pay for it if you'd be interested in doing that because if you have an interest, I understand it's a really good school and you're far more likely to get a job if you've had the training that they give over there, you know. So it may just be a year-long thing for, you know, training just one year, but helping them if they're struggling socially or relationally, mentally, then try to find whatever helps available in the community that they might plug into that could help them move toward being independent.   Laura Dugger: (37:16 - 37:38) I love that. Reaching maturity, independence, and then also you really did focus on the parents, the importance of them taking care of themselves and their marital relationship because that will change the dynamic if an adult child moves back in or if they move back in with their kids.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (37:38 - 38:59) Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's very different and I think as the parents, we don't want to spend time with each other silent, I mean, personally arguing with each other, you know, I just don't think we ought to do this now, you know.   Listen, listen, we're a team and this is our child. So, let's talk about what we're going to do. If we don't do it, what are we going to do?   We're going to let them live on the street. We're going to send them to the rescue mission. What are our options, you know, and what is the Christian thing to do?   So yeah, we likely will have different ideas. Husbands and wives will have different ideas of what we ought to do in those kinds of situations, but let's respect each other's ideas. Let's listen and try to see the world through their eyes and say, okay, I can see what you're saying.   I can see how that makes sense. And then, okay, how can we solve the problem? Because we want to be a team.   We want to keep our marriage growing. We don't want this to be a divisive thing in our marriage because we hope down the road they're going to be on their own, but we want our marriage to be good now and then, you know.   Laura Dugger: (39:00 - 39:12) So, to sum up this time together, do you have any additional words of encouragement or helpful do's and don'ts as we navigate this new part of parenting?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (39:14 - 42:07) I think one thing I would say to Christian parents is pray. The Bible says if you lack wisdom, ask God for wisdom. And all of us need wisdom.   And so, you just say, God, you know the situation, you know where we are, and we need your wisdom. You know we have our thoughts and our ideas, but what we really want to do is what is best in this situation for our child and for us. And we know that you can give us wisdom.   And the second thing I would say is read a book such as the one we're discussing. Because we're dealing with many common things in this. Read a book together about it.   And then, also talk to other parents maybe in your church, who have adult children who are moving home or whatever the situation is. And see how they're handling it. Because, you know, they may have found some things and discovered some things that would be very helpful to you.   Sometimes parents want to hide what's going on, especially if their child is making decisions and living a lifestyle that they don't want them to be living. They don't want to tell their friends about it. Because they think it puts them down as parents, that we failed, you know.   And I like to say to those parents, because many times here's what the parents say to me when their child is making a lifestyle decision that's not biblical. They'll say, Dr. Chapman, what did we do wrong? And I say, well, ask God if you did anything wrong.   God will tell you. And if you did, you can apologize. You can confess it to God.   You can apologize to your adult child. But let me remind you of this. God's first two children went wrong, and they had a perfect father.   So don't blame yourself for the decisions your adult children are making. Yes, none of us are perfect. And maybe you made some real bad decisions.   Then apologize to your adult child. But don't just assume that you are responsible for what they're doing. God makes his children free.   And as you know, a lot of God's children make poor decisions. God still loves them. And if they repent, God will forgive them.   But they suffer the consequences. Anytime we violate God's plans, we have to suffer. There are consequences.   So, yeah, those are just some of the things I would say to parents. But I do think that they'll find this book to be very helpful. It's very practical.   And I think they'll find it to be very helpful.   Laura Dugger: (42:08 - 42:24) Your teaching is always full of wisdom, full of practicality. And this isn't the only topic that you've written about or spoken about. And so where would you like to direct us after this chat so that we can learn more from all of your teaching?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (42:25 - 42:59) I would say go to the website 5lovelanguages.com. The number 5 and lovelanguages.com. And there you will find resources, all my books and so forth. You can receive a weekly email from me if you like.   And you can take a quiz on the love languages and other things. Just a lot of help at that website. My publisher actually runs that website for me.   But it's very, very helpful. So, you know, that's where I would encourage them to go.   Laura Dugger: (43:00 - 43:19) Wonderful. We'll add that link in the show notes for today's episode. And Dr. Chapman, you've been a repeat guest. So, you're familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (43:22 - 44:41) I would say recognize the truth of what Jesus said as recorded in Matthew chapter 15, and verse 5. I think I'm right about that. Where he said, “I'm the vine. You're the branches. You stay connected to me. You bear fruit. Without me, you can do nothing.”   So just recognize your dependence on God. We may know a lot about a few things, but there's a whole bunch of stuff we don't know much about.   So just realize if you stay connected to God, have a daily quiet time with God in which you sit down and read a chapter in the Bible and ask God to speak to you. Or read a devotional book every morning with Scripture. You stay connected closely to God; you're going to bear fruit.   And tell God, without you, Lord, I can't do anything worthwhile. We won't. We can't do anything.‍ ‍   He gives us breath. We could be gone tomorrow. I can't do it without you.   I need your help. I need your wisdom. So, you stay connected closely to God.   You're going to not only survive, you're going to thrive.   Laura Dugger: (44:42 - 45:13) Well said. And it's great to witness someone who has been abiding in Christ and we're getting to enjoy that sweet fruit from the overflow of even your lifestyle and your guidance and your wisdom, Dr. Chapman. So, it's always such a joy to get to talk to you.   And I think my heart rate slows down every time we're having a conversation. You're so calm and peaceful. And I just really am grateful for you and appreciate you.   So, thank you for being my guest.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (45:14 - 45:25) Well, thank you. I always enjoy chatting with you. And thanks for what you're doing.   Because, you know, we take whatever we've got and try to help other people. And you're doing that. So, keep up the good work.   Laura Dugger: (45:25 - 48:42) Thank you. One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners. But Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own.   So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior. But God loved us so much He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.   This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin.   This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today, right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You.   Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer you are declaring Him for me so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him.   And at this podcast, we're called the Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?   First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible.   The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.   Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ.   We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15 10 says, In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.   The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved, and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

In this episode of The Long Form Podcast, investigative journalist Canary Mugume of NBS Television opens up about the reality of journalism in Uganda and Africa today. From reporting on powerful political figures to navigating public scrutiny, Mugume shares what it really means to pursue truth in an environment shaped by pressure, risk, and perception. We explore the challenges of speaking truth to power, the personal cost of public life, and the hidden emotional and psychological toll that comes with high-stakes reporting. The conversation also touches on relationships in the public eye, mental health, and the growing concern around global influence on African media narratives. This is a deep and honest look at journalism, media, politics, and truth in East Africa.Sponsors:Threat Informat - https://threatinformant.io/                                               Akagera Medicines- https://www.akageramedicines.com Join our Patreon to enjoy ad-free viewing https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheLongFormPod or support us via our MTN Mobile Money Code 95462 or directly to our phone number: +250795462739Visit Sanny Ntayombya's Official Website: https://sannyntayombya.comProduced by LF Media 

Send us Fan MailPoint-of-care biomarkers for predicting sepsis mortality, not from a resource-rich academic center, but from a tertiary referral hospital in Tanzania. In this booth interview from PAS 2026, Ben and Daphna sit down with Dr. Abigail Sorensen, a pediatrician now based in East Africa, to discuss how a lasso model combining malnutrition, altered mental status, respiratory distress, and procalcitonin can risk-stratify children with sepsis at the bedside. The lessons here are not just for low-resource settings. They are for anyone trying to identify the sickest kids before it is too late, with the tools already in front of them.Support the showAs always, feel free to send us questions, comments, or suggestions to our email: nicupodcast@gmail.com. You can also contact the show through Instagram or Twitter, @nicupodcast. Or contact Ben and Daphna directly via their Twitter profiles: @drnicu and @doctordaphnamd. The papers discussed in today's episode are listed and timestamped on the webpage linked below.Enjoy!

Ghillie Basan is one of Scotland's most talented culinary champions. She's been called 'The Original Spice Girl' and a 'World Food Expert' but what comes across most when you meet this author of more than 50 books, mostly on food, is her irrepressible spirit and thirst for life. On a snowy day Rosalind went along to Ghillie's highland home to chat with her about her childhood in East Africa, creating a home from 300 year old ruins, raising a young family in difficult conditions, building a livelihood from her remote home and the challenges she's met along the way. They talk about her close relationship with her children both in work and play and why her latest  food book, 'Food, Whisky, Life', may be her last.  She tells Rosalind the rather incredible story of how she got her first break in journalism, why she doesn't eat in restaurants very much and how a little bit of love can go a long way in cooking. They also look to the future and the hopes and dreams she still holds. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reinventing yourself after divorce is not about becoming someone new, it's about remembering who you've always been beneath the roles, expectations, and shared history. In this heartfelt and deeply honest conversation, Kristine Carlson welcomes Heather Sloan to explore what it really looks like to move through the emotional terrain of divorce and into a more grounded, self-honoring life. Heather opens up about the quiet grief, the identity shifts, and the tender moments of reckoning that often accompany the end of a marriage. She also shares how, little by little, she began to reconnect with her own voice, her own needs, and her own sense of possibility. Together, Kristine and Heather reflect on the power of not sweating the small stuff, especially during life's most overwhelming transitions. When everything feels uncertain, it's often the smallest acts of self-kindness and presence that help guide us forward.  You'll hear reflections on letting go of perfectionism, softening self-judgment, and allowing space for both grief and growth to coexist. Heather's story is a beautiful example of how clarity and strength can emerge when we choose to meet ourselves with compassion instead of criticism. Let this conversation be an invitation to trust your resilience, honor your healing, and embrace the unfolding of your next chapter. About Heather: Heather Sloan is a life coach, author, educator, retreat leader, and spiritual director trained through SoulFormation's Academy of Spiritual Formation and School of Spiritual Direction. She has a background in international studies and public health nursing. She's worked as a Peace Corps volunteer in East Africa, a community health nurse, and as a non-profit executive director. The throughline in her work and interests has been supporting whole-person health and well-being. After experiencing the personal crisis of divorce and rediscovering herself and a life that excites her on the other side of it, Heather wrote a book to help others do the same. It's called Make a Tour de Force of Your Divorce – Emerge from the Split with Grace and Grit. In it, she draws on her spiritual foundation and training to offer a practical guidebook to accompany others through the core themes, challenges, and opportunities that a significant breakup presents. It offers a transformational path to rebuild one's life and thrive. Learn more about Heather and get a copy of her book at www.TheHeatherSloan.com

From Gangster to Child of God with Brian Butler (Episode 290)   Disclaimer: This episode contains thematic material. Listener discretion advised.   2 Corinthians 1:4 NLT “He comforts us in all our troubles so that we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us.”   *Transcription Below*   Brian Butler married his wife Pam in 2011. They have four children and eight grandchildren. Brian received his Bachelor of Science degree from Indiana State University in 2009. Arriving in Peoria, Illinois in 2009 Brian began his career working with the impoverished in his community as a Safety Net Monitor at The Salvation Army. He was afforded the opportunity to work with individuals in the community for four years providing case management assisting people to learn the value of work through work therapy and securing income and eventually housing. Brian was called to Peoria Rescue Ministries in 2014 and began his career there as the Assistant Director of the Rescue Mission. In 2018 Brian became the Program Director and in 2021 became the Director of Residential Ministries. In 2024 Peoria Rescue Ministries became Pathway Ministries. Coming from a former lifestyle of drug and alcohol addiction Brian has been able to transform programs at Pathway Ministries that address the needs of the impoverished community he serves to create pathways out of poverty through Jesus with his neighbors in need. Pathway Ministries provides emergency shelter, residential programs, and community services with a focus on counseling, education, and work to help the men and women they serve make transformative changes in their lives. Pathway Ministries is a social enterprise organization and has a partnership with Caterpillar – they reclaim discarded wood and turn it into pallets, mulch for industrial and commercial use, and home décor. Their residents are employed in these businesses while participating in their program.    Pathway Ministries Website   Thank you to our sponsor for today's episode: Midwest Food Bank   Topics We Cover: Growing up in an abusive home Lifestyle choices leading to prison God's miraculous redemption and restoration   Related Savvy Sauce Episode: 143 Prodigal Story: Sexuality, Drugs, and Scripture with Dr. Christopher Yuan   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:08)   Laura Dugger: (0:09 - 3:30) Hey friends! Thank you so much for joining us today. If you're watching this, you may notice that there's a unique screen that's going to pop up periodically.   So, here's the backstory. We delight in getting to do this work, and we do believe it's what God has called our team to do. And yet, we have a very present and active enemy.   And Satan has tried to thwart the progress of these podcast episodes in so many ways.  It's almost uncanny what will happen before a podcast recording. There's almost always something, yet it's different every time.   So, the way it showed up with this episode, first of all, when Brian and I tried to connect, somebody was working in our yard, and they accidentally cut our line for internet.  And so, we had to cancel that and reschedule. And then, when we got the episode rescheduled, Brian and I were chatting, and we haven't recorded.   We were just talking for a little while before the official interview began, and everything was great. And then, as soon as I said, “Welcome to The Savvy Sauce.” The screen went a little wavy, and something happened, and my audio quality was completely distorted. So, sorry for the lengthy explanation, but I wanted you to know how much work has gone into this episode.   So, if you ever have somebody that you want to thank, it should be Natalie, our editor, who had to go back and replace everything that I said to cover up the very convoluted form that was originally recorded. So, I hope it doesn't interrupt this episode or make it difficult for you to listen to, because Brian's story is so powerful, and I believe God has you here listening to this right now for a reason. So, please continue.   Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living.  I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.   Today's episode includes some thematic material. I want you to be aware before you listen in the presence of little ears.   Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this non-profit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.   Brian Butler is my outstanding guest for today, and he's going to take us on a very real journey with him from an extremely abusive childhood to a life of addictions and eventually to redemption and restoration all because of Jesus Christ. Brian's humility is so Christ-like, and I think that you're going to leave this conversation as a changed person. Here's our chat.   Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Brian.   Brian Butler: (3:31 - 3:33) Thank you so much for having me here. I appreciate it.   Laura Dugger: (3:34 - 3:42) Well, I would just love to start backwards. Where did you grow up, and what was childhood like for you?   Brian Butler: (3:43 - 9:46) I grew up all over the place, really. I'd spent several years in Danville as a child, Hartsburg, Illinois, eventually settled down in southern Illinois in a little town called Bridgeport. My dad was a professor at a local college, and he ended up being a high school teacher.   Where I went to school, my mom and dad were continually in chaos with their marriage.  My dad had some severe mental health issues. He was a pretty rough guy to be around.    He was a chronic alcoholic. He was abusive, and I'll just say for this podcast, in every kind of way you can imagine how a little boy might be abused by his daddy, that was my dad. Yet, that was just our normal.   I didn't know if it was bad, if it was wrong, whatever. He was very verbally abusive to the whole family, him and my mom. I think my mother, the whole time growing up, was just trying to salvage her marriage and to save face with her family, so on and so forth.   It was a pretty rough childhood, but I want to say that in those moments, it was just the way it was.  We didn't know good from bad. That was still my dad.   I believe that in some weird way that he loved us and cared for us, but there were so many mental health and substance abuse issues with him and the perversion that he had in his life that just leaked over to my little brother and me.  It was a different relationship with my little brother. He was very abusive to my little brother.   My little brother had a lot of behavioral issues and rebellion issues.  I was more of the compliant, the good kid in school. I made the good grades.    I wanted to please my dad, and yet I hated him from the inside. I just couldn't stand him. I rebelled against him.    There were a lot of drugs and alcohol my parents were. My mother was not an abuser by any means. My mother was not an alcoholic by any means, but my mother went along with my dad.   My whole childhood evolved around parties. My dad was a pretty social guy. He was into politics and those kinds of things.   I was exposed to a lot of stuff at an early age. I can remember being seven, eight years old, going around in parties and just sipping whatever it was out of unknown glasses and enjoying the effect that it had on me as a little kid. I was a big fan of Billy Bear.   I didn't even know what Billy Bear was, but I was drinking Billy Bear. That's a Jimmy Carter beer, so that takes you back in the day. All the music that we listened to back in those days all evolved around afternoon delight and getting high in some kind of form or fashion.   That was just what I clung to as a little boy and as a young man.  I was a full-fledged blackout alcoholic by the time I was a sophomore in high school. I was drinking regularly.   I was able to fly under the radar pretty good because mom and dad were always in the middle of crisis. As long as I wasn't in a lot of trouble, that was easily hidden, even though it was really out in the light, if that makes any kind of sense. It was pretty rough.    Looking back on it, it was rough. In today's standards, we would have been taken away from our homes, and those kinds of things would have been exposed. We just didn't know.   That's just kind of the way it was, but it did lead me into a lifestyle.  I don't want to say they led me into it. I really chose to and clung to a lifestyle.   When I was a little boy, Laura, I grew up Catholic.  We went to parochial schools until I was in fourth grade. I can remember even now.    I loved God. I loved God. He was my refuge.    I didn't know what a refuge meant. I can just say it by language now. I can remember having my crucifix above my bed and I would pray.    I wanted to be a priest. I really did. By the time I got to about 10, 11, 12 years old, the things that had happened and the things that had occurred in my life and my behavior as well just led me to believe that if God was even real because I cried out to him a lot and it didn't seem like he was there.   If he was real, then he really didn't want anything to do with me anyway.  I became kind of anti-God, anti-rebellious. I was just a very rebellious young man.    I went to high school. I mean, I'm getting pretty good grades in high school. My dad was a high school teacher in the same high school I went to.    It was very tumultuous. You can imagine our house. There were split-ups and break-ups, this and that. My dad was a party guy. All the students loved him. I hated him for that.    He was separated from my mom. He was a cheater and a liar. There were a lot of things that bothered me.   After I graduated high school, I had a partial scholarship to go to Eastern Illinois University, but I showed my dad. I got in my little car and drove to Wyoming. That just became my lifestyle, drinking, drugging, roaming all around the country as a young man.    Then I eventually got married to a gal I met down in Kentucky. We had three children really fast. I would say that we got along about three times. That was Emily, Amy, and Mark. We were divorced after five years. Then I was just as a young man and a young adult, just wild and crazy.   Laura Dugger: (9:48 - 10:05) Wow. Brian, thank you for sharing a glimpse of your childhood and even into adulthood. Just for clarification then, when you did get divorced, did you stay in the same state or how did all of that work with your children?   Brian Butler: (10:08 - 16:52) Yeah. No. Like I said, when I was 18, I was out in California for a while.  I was in Wyoming for a while. I landed in Kentucky and met my first wife. We had three kids really fast, divorced after five years.   Then I always wanted to be in a relationship with my children. I don't know if there's anybody out there listening, but I was really stuck in an addictive lifestyle. I was alcohol and drugs, just crazy in it.    I still loved my kids. Now, people on the outside looking in would say, oh, he doesn't love his kids by his lifestyle, but I still love my kids. I paid child support, crying out loud.   I really did. My relationship with my ex-wife was so volatile that she would prevent me from seeing the kids. After several years, I just gave up.   I just didn't give up on the visits and so on and so forth.  I was in Tennessee for a few years. I was all around the country.   Eventually, in the late 90s, I did actually get temporary custody of my kids because my ex-wife had went off the rails bad.  I had my kids for about a year that they lived with me. That was a sweet time.   Once again, my alcoholism and drug addiction and the mom came back into play.  There were just so many issues there. That's when I really got into it.   After the kids went back to their mom, I got into hard drugs, really hard drugs.  I started manufacturing methamphetamine, so on and so forth. There was a time, I'll back this up.   With my childhood and everything that happened there with my dad, before I got divorced from my ex-wife, one of the pivotal moments, I believe, looking back on my life and what led me into just this trajectory of anger and malice and hating God and anything that was good was the moment that my dad called us all together for a family meeting because him and my mom were officially going to get divorced. I was like 21 years old, something like that.   My dad came to tell us that he was a homosexual and that he had been living a homosexual lie for his whole life and that this was the lifestyle that he was choosing. For me, at that age, everything prior to that moment in my life just became a lie. I can't begin to even put into words what that did to me inside because of the perversion that I've experienced with my dad.   My father had made several comments along the way that I was gay, that I was going to be a little queer, a little this and that. I wasn't, but the things that he had done, then you've wrestled with all that stuff. I just became so angry and so fueled with resentment that I really started on this trajectory with my drug and alcohol use that even though I still liked it, I don't want to remove that from it.    I liked being high. I liked being drunk. I enjoyed all the aspects of that lifestyle at the time.   I went at it in a much different way because I didn't really care anymore.  That's just from a looking back perspective. In the moment, I think I cared a lot about everything, but I just had really taken this perspective on in my personal life that nothing matters as much as it did.    It just really didn't matter. I was just going to keep moving forward and doing the things that I to the extreme. I was very extreme on everything.   If it was drinking, I'm going to drink more than you are. If it was smoking something, I'm going to smoke more than you are. If it was snorting, look at the schmoz.    That's just the way I lived my lifestyle. It really took on that trajectory in my adult life until the law started becoming an issue when I was in my 30s. After I'd had the kids for all my life, I tell folks, in those times, I was like a functioning zombie.   I was still getting high, still drinking, but golly, I was the dad that got up and had breakfast for the kids.  I was a strict disciplinarian. I was over the top on so many things.   I was abusive in some ways like my dad was, the way that I spoke to the kids, the way that I treated my children. I didn't certainly know sexual abuse or anything like that with my own children, but I was a really strict disciplinarian. I regret that now.   It's one of my biggest regrets ever, the way that I treated those kids. I tried to make a good life for about a year. Then when they went back to their mom, it just really, really flew apart my life.   It was me doing it. I was flying it apart. I just destroyed everything around me.   If you've cared about me, then that would make me hate you even more. Anyone that cared about me, I would get you to care about me, and then I would hate you for caring about me. It's crazy making stuff, but that's the way that I live my life.    I eventually was introduced to a fellow that knew how to manufacture methamphetamine. He taught me the method. Of course, being the extreme person that I am, I went all in.   I became a methamphetamine manufacturer and dealer and lived that lifestyle for quite some time. It's not like it is now where you're driving around in cornfields with a five-gallon bucket making methamphetamine or Mexican methamphetamine. I had a lab down in Southern Illinois, and I sold a lot of methamphetamines, which is disastrous to me now, but I really became an in-my-own-mind gangster kind of person.    It was a very violent lifestyle. It was very awful, certainly nothing that you would want to glorify, but that's just who I became. And I lived my life for a number of years, and it was disastrous.   Laura Dugger: (16:53 - 19:27) And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need.   Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America, the resources actually do exist. That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched.   Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa, which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty. This ministry reaches millions of people every year, and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, costs of leadership, oversight, and other administrative expenses.   Donations, volunteers, and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank. To learn more, visit midwestfoodbank.org or listen to episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce, where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today.   Well, I'm hearing all of this for the first time, and it's unimaginable what you were endured growing up, and my heart just aches to hear what happened and then hear the choices that were produced out of that and see where that lifestyle was leading you. But Brian, I just appreciate you for so many reasons, and one of those is for being transparent and vulnerable but also sharing the truth that there was some pleasure in it. You were enjoying it for a while, and the Bible does talk about pleasures of sin for a season, but we all know that that trajectory leads to death, even if it's death of relationships.   So, looking at your relationships at that time, were you still in contact with your mom or your brother or your dad throughout all of this?   Brian Butler: (19:28 - 21:37) No, not really. My brother, it's an interesting story. My brother had married a gal right out of high school.    He got born again. He became a Christian. So poor guy, I just tortured him my whole adult life.   I just made fun of him, and I called him weak, and he was a crutch, and we got in even physical fights over it a couple times, but we didn't have much of a relationship as you can imagine. I think that there were several times that we tried to reach out and be in contact, but it just didn't work due to my addictions and my alcoholism and his pride and all those other kinds of things. My mom held on to me for years.   I put my mother through, I tortured her. I was arrested seven times for driving under the influence. I had five DUI convictions.   I was in and out of trouble. I was always in the forefront of her mind, and I've experienced this with my own children after I came to Christ, continually worried that she wouldn't get the phone call that her son was dead, basically. The last two or three years of my being out there, I had no contact with my mom because she finally said, you're dead to me.   I'm done. You're not my son. I don't want to hear from you, and I was like, cool.   I don't care. You've been dead to me for 40 years, right? I blamed her for allowing things to happen.   It just wasn't true, right? I mean, it wasn't her fault at all of any of my childhood, and she was just trying to be a good mom and save her marriage, and she was being abused mentally and stuff that whole time. But you know how we are as sinful creatures.   I didn't want to take the blame on me because it wasn't my fault, so I was blaming everybody else around me. So, I didn't really have any solid relationships as far as family, anything like that goes while I was out there in my addiction. It all changed when I was arrested in 2003.   So that's a story.   Laura Dugger: (21:38 - 21:43) Are you willing to take us back to 2003 and share that story?   Brian Butler: (21:45 - 38:08) Yeah, yeah. So I was, like I said, I had become, you know, I was living a gangster life, so I was in the drug world, and I don't know if anybody knows anything about the drug world, but it's not like the movies. It's worse.    It's worse than they depict in movies. So, I was living that lifestyle for several years. I had a lot of money. I had a lot of guns. I had a lot of property. I had all the methamphetamine I could possibly use because I was manufacturing it.    I was selling more than I could possibly imagine. I was using more than that. I was king of the world is what I thought while everything around me was burning.    I was the king, if that makes any sense. And so that was the lifestyle that had led up to 2003. I'll never forget one time I had married another gal after my first wife and I had divorced several years later, and that was just a relationship based on lies and substance abuse.   So, it really wasn't a marriage at all, but I had been arrested in Vincennes, Indiana for dealing narcotics, and I had some other arrests down in Kentucky for dealing narcotics, and I made bail and all this. And so, what happened was in 2002, I went on the run. I still had my meth lab, and I was still selling lots of methamphetamine, but I had these warrants, and I was king of the world in my mind, and nobody was going to catch me, and I was going out like a gangster.    They were never going to take me alive, this fact. So, she went with me, which is great. She was crazy.    And we went on the run, and we just lived from casino to casino. I would make methamphetamine. I would sell $20,000 worth, and then we just kind of traveled around and lived that kind of lifestyle.    And I'll never forget one time down at the Casino Queen in St. Louis, Missouri. There's a casino down there. I just done a pretty big dope deal, and the casino was hot, and the air conditioning was down, and it was like 5 o'clock in the morning, and I just had to get out of there.   I just had to get away, and I got in my van and took a spin down in Belleville, Illinois, and I ended up in a cemetery on top of this cemetery, and it was looking down this great big hill. And I haven't been there since, but people from that area are like, yeah, I know that cemetery. I'm like, yeah, well, that's where I really had my Lieutenant Dan moment with God almost.    I sat on top of that. I was so, I can't explain it. I had lived my life in that addiction, loving that addiction, and loving getting high, loving drinking.   At that point in my life, I was still doing it. I hated myself, and I wanted to die, and I didn't like it so much anymore. I just wanted it to be over, and I kind of had it out with God.   I was drinking a fifth of whiskey, and I'm smoking methamphetamine. I'm a nine-millimeter pistol, and I'm putting it in my mouth. I was too much of a coward to pull the trigger, so that made me even more angry, and I thought for a moment that God might be real, and that there might be something worth living, but it was just a moment, and I kind of gathered myself together, and I went back to the casino, and just like as if nothing had happened, and just a few weeks later, I was arrested in Washington, Indiana.    I had made arrangements to see my kids. I had my kids for the weekend, which is crazy to think that I was in any kind of shape to be around my kids, but I was. I was always a functioning guy, and I was a gangster, so we had the kids for a weekend, and when the kids left the location I was at, my ex-wife called the police and told them where I was, and so that led into a great big chase, and there was all kinds of SWAT teams and all kinds of things.   I was holed up in a house at one point, and police were banging on the windows and trying to get in the house, and eventually they called on the telephone, and it just kept ringing and kept ringing and kept ringing.  I'm stuck in this house. I didn't have my guns.    I didn't have any drugs. I didn't have a cigarette, right, and the crazy thing about that whole thing is, I'll just back to the subject, so I'm in this chase, right, on foot from the police. I tried to pull a guy out of his pickup truck.   Of all things, God put this guy in the pickup truck. He was an off-duty police officer, and so I'm trying to carjack an off-duty police officer. He's having none of it.    I get away from him. I get in this. I'm running through a residential neighborhood trying to get any door open that I possibly could to get away from the police who were chasing me, and I made it to an open door, and I opened up that door, and it was an insurance company, and there were a bunch of little ladies sitting around computers in this room, and I was just like, hey, can I get a glass of water, and out there I am sweating profusely just in 10 o'clock in the morning with Harley Davidson boots, Hawaiian t-shirt, obviously in distress, and I scared these ladies to death, and I'm hearing them call the police anyway, and I just grabbed a glass of water and went out on that front porch, and some fella drove up in a pickup truck and got out of the truck to come in to do business with the insurance company, and I went and stole his truck, and I was able to get away and get to a safe spot.   I think it's safe because I'm only there for about three or four minutes, and the police show up all the way around that house, and so they're calling.  They're banging on the windows. We know it's you in there.   You need to come out, and eventually after about an hour or so of that, I did answer the phone, and the police officer said, I had a fake ID, and they were like, we know you're not Bill Berkshire.  We know that you're Brian Butler. You need to come out of that house.   You need to come out of there now, or we're going to come and get you, and I said, well, try it, because I'll kill the first three of you through the door. Now, they had already confiscated my fan and guns and all that kind of stuff, but they didn't know what I had. I didn't have anything.   There was a six-foot decorative simmer I swore on the wall that couldn't cut butter that I was arming myself with, and it took about another hour or two, and the SWAT team showed up, and they eventually got me out of that house. I was arrested and facing 120 years in the 20th century. I had multiple carjacking, dealing, manufacturing, every possible imaginable that you could possibly imagine of illegal substances.   I had those on me in my van and the property, and so there was the chase and all that happened, so they were unwilling to run any of those charges concurrent. They took four major charges and said, we're going to run a consecutive, and I was facing 120 years in prison. Honestly, when I was in jail, it was kind of like a relief in a way.    I was so angry. I was delusional. I really thought that the people who owed me money were going to break me out.    That's how delusional I was. They didn't, but that's where I had a moment, and I come back to my mom. I'd been in jail about a month, and what had happened was my mom came to the jail, and she didn't come there for a visit.   She came on a Saturday morning, and the police let her in, and she wanted to know if I would sign papers because I still had temporary custody of my children on paper and if my brother could have legal custody over my kids while all this was going on. Because my children, I'll back that up, my children were in Kentucky with their mom, my youngest daughter at that time. I was 14 years old, and she was using methamphetamine.    She was into alcohol. She wasn't being supervised. She was in abusive relationships with her mother's friends.   She was cutting herself because her daddy was going away forever. That was my daughter, and I loved her, and I was just taken aback that my brother would go down and rescue her. The whole story of how I came to Christ is all involved in this.   I'm kind of all over the place, but the Friday night prior to my mom showing up at the jail, back in those days in jail, there was no overcrowding in Indiana, and there were 16 of us in a six-man cell, and I had been in that jail for, like I said, three or four weeks, and on Friday nights, they would have the Gideons come in. Now, the only thing I knew about a Gideon was those Bibles that they put in hotels, and I was none too interested in any God talk. I didn't believe in that.   I just didn't want anything to do with that. As a matter of fact, I was mad about it, but after three or four weeks of being in there smelling nothing but feet and urine, I was willing to do anything for 15 minutes to get out of that cell, and so I agreed to go, and me and two other guys went up to a visitation booth, and there was a little fella in there, and he was very nice, but I couldn't tell you anything he said for the 15 minutes, nothing.    I wasn't paying attention. I was just sitting there looking around, just glad to be out of that cell, but at the end of that 15 minutes, he knocked on the window, and he pointed at me. He said, can I pray for you, and I said, hell no, you can't pray for me.   I don't want your prayers. I'm not here for your prayer, and whatever language it was, I was very vile. I said, but if you want to pray for something, you think that God of yours is listening, you pray for my daughter, and I kind of told her a little bit about what's going on with my kid.   I said, and so you pray for her, and he did, and I can't tell you what he prayed because I really wasn't listening, but it was nice, and I remember that night going back to my cell, and with my Catholic upbringing and everything that had happened, I think I probably said a little prayer myself that night to this God that I didn't believe in, and then a week later, my mom shows up telling me that my brother in Cleveland, Ohio, born again Christian, that the very night that this guy was praying, my brother and his wife decided to come down to Vincent's, Indiana, and they got my mom, and they drove to Owensburg, Kentucky, and literally kidnapped my daughter and took her back to live with them, and I wasn't, I was just kind of in a haze.   I wasn't putting all that together in the moment, and like I said, mom wasn't there for a visit, and I was just like Mark, would you do that for me?  He went and got Amy. I just couldn't believe it, and she's like, yes, I just need you to sign the paper so I can get out of here, and so I did, and that night, I was back in that jail cell, and all those lights were off, and man, the Holy Spirit of God fell on me, and he told me he was real, and to the best of my ability, I confessed my sins.    I repented for my sins. I was just, I just spent the whole night as a 40-year-old gangster, blubber, and idiot in a jail cell just crying about everything, just about my dad, about my lifestyle. I missed my kids.   It just came crashing down on me, and I believe that that was the night that I was truly born again. I believe that God had his hand on me before the foundation of the world. He knew me, and that he loved me, and he chose me, and that I loved him as a little boy, and for whatever happened in my life that I chose to ignore him and run away from him and hate him, but through his mercy and grace and through even facing 120 years in the penitentiary that he saved me, and I believe that night that I got saved, and I just told him, I know we're not supposed to make a deal with God, but it was just kind of like, man, I believe you're real. I don't know anything about you.   I don't know what, you know, my Catholic brother, I don't know if Mary has anything to do with this. I don't know nothing about you, but I believe you're real, and I'll do anything you tell me for the rest of my life if you just take this taste out of my mouth. I just don't want this addiction. I don't want all this crap anymore, and in that moment, he did.   I really believe that he took that away from me, and I've been following him kind of ever since. The next morning when they opened up the cell, we went out to the day room.  I'll never forget. There was a Bible there. Now, that Bible's been there the whole time, but it's the first time I see the Bible, and I kind of, you know, I'm still struggling.   I've been up all night, and I'm kind of wiped out anyway, drinking instant coffee and, you know, having a God experience, and there's a Bible, and I pick up this Bible, and it was in Romans chapter five. I'll never get it, and I'll just paraphrase, but I remember reading the verses that having been justified by faith, and it just kind of hit me that I wish I really believed God was real, and I don't know what that means, and I don't know anything about it, but I went on to read that I was no longer his enemy and that I could have peace with him and that he was going to give me good character and that I could persevere. It didn't matter what I had in front of me, so it was just God speaking to me in those moments that I'm going to be with you through all this, and it was just a wonderful, life-changing experience. It didn't, you know, sanctification takes a long time.   I still was sentenced to 15 years in prison, which was a miracle, right? I was facing 120, and there it was nothing that I had done prior to my conversion. I had been in front of a judge, and I had a $1 million full cash bond.   I was in front of the judge, and I'm like, I want a bond reduction. The judge is like; you're telling me you're going to pay $100,000 to get out of jail. I said, angrily, you could reduce my bond, and he said, denied.   We're not going to do that, and that was the last time I really talked to a judge or an attorney, and I sat in jail for six or seven months, and this attorney that was appointed to me after the one that I fired, he came to me one time and said, hey, they're willing to give you a 15-year sentence in prison if that's what you want to do, and I said, okay.  I wasn't concerned about prison. I wasn't concerned.   I just wanted to do what the Lord wanted me to, and that's been my whole life since.  People will ask me about prison. It was horrible, as you can imagine.    I was in the state of Indiana. There were no separation of offenders at that time. I was in a medium-max facility, so I was doing time with guys who were doing life, which were the best guys to do it with because they were just doing life, and then little gangbangers from Indianapolis.   It was a terrible affair. Every kind of drug possible, every kind of perversion possible was there, but it's where I met Jesus, and it's where I learned to follow Christ, and I had a godly man come alongside of me in the prison, Pastor Woodcocks, who just assigned my guy, and he helped me to work through so many things and to be a man of truth and integrity and all the different things that he taught me, so while I look back at that, and I say, yeah, prison sucked.   It was awful, and I never want to go back again in that capacity, but it's where I learned to follow Christ, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.  I wouldn't trade that time for anything. I needed every ounce of that time to become closer to him and to be less about me, and then I got out of prison in 2009.   It was a shock probation here to Peoria, Illinois, where my oldest daughter was at that time, and I moved in with her.  She's been following Jesus ever since. It's not been an easy road, right?   It's not been being a convicted felon and having all those things, but God does, if he is for us, who can be against us, right?  He has really, really, really been by my side. There's been so many things that have happened.   I could go on for hours and hours and hours, but that's how I came to Jesus and where I got to know Jesus and where I really solidified my relationship with, I believe, and he's saved.   Laura Dugger: (38:10 - 38:55) What an incredible journey he took you on.   Did you know you could receive a free email with monthly encouragement, practical tips, and plenty of questions to ask to take your conversation a level deeper, whether that's in parenting or on date nights? Make sure you access all of this at thesavvysauce.com by clicking the button that says join our email list so that you can follow the prompts and begin receiving these emails at the beginning of each month.  Enjoy.   So, then Brian, as a freed man at that point, once you were out of prison, how did you eventually find your way to what is now Pathway Ministries?   Brian Butler: (38:57 - 45:56) It's been a wild ride. I got out of prison thinking I was going to be a prison minister and there was going to be all kinds of things that were going to happen. You kind of buy into that prosperity stuff while I was locked up.   I really thought that there were big things in store. After I was out of prison for about three months, it was 2009, and so the economy in Peoria was really bad. The cap shut down.    Places weren't hiring. I couldn't find a job anywhere. I remember going to Kroger in Madison Park.   If anybody remembers Madison Park Kroger in Peoria, it was a really rough part of town.  They were banging out in the parking lot. I'm here.   I called the manager and he said set up a time for an interview.  I went to the interview, and I took him my resume. They taught us in the penitentiary and in classes.   I got a bachelor's degree in prison, by the way. I filled out my resume, and I filled the time up in my resume with the prison ministry I was involved in. Just so you don't have that slack of time.   The manager said, oh, I see that you were in a prison ministry. Man, that's amazing. Did they let you in there every day?    Well, I lived there. I was in prison at that time. This is what I was doing while I was in prison.   His words to me shook me to the core because he handed me back that resume and he said, “We don't hire your kind here.” I'm telling you, after all the disappointment I have for two or three months of not being able to find a job and rejection after rejection, I walked out in the parking lot. My daughter took me back to her house and I remember sitting on the end of her bed.   I'm not a crier, really, but at that time I think I might have been crying a little bit. She was bawling and I was just like, “Just take me down to the shelter. I don't want to be any more of a burden to this family. Please, I got to go.”   She's like, “Don't give up, dad, don't give up.” I'm like, “I'll give it up, oh God, I just don't want to be a burden.”    She said, “Just wait, just wait, just give it a little more time.” I agreed to do that. That week, through the grapevine, one of the friends of a guy that she went to church with, John McCormick, at McCormick Auto Place in Belleville, Illinois, called and said, “Hey, I heard through the grapevine you're having a hard time getting a job. I need somebody washing cars.”   That was a far cry from, you know, I'm a 46-year-old man and I'd walk around with briefcases full of money. It was a humbling experience, but I went to work for John, and he ended up, you know, as a Christian, he was just a Christ follower.    He accepted me into his family. I went from 10 hours a week to part-time. I eventually got a part-time job at the Salvation Army.    They called me. It was one of the first places I put in a resume. Paul Cousin called me from the Salvation Army.   He's like, “Hey, I don't know why we never saw your resume before, but we need help. Would you like to come to work at the safety net working with homeless guys?” I'm thinking, well, you know, I've been homeless, so sure.   And I went down there and I started working there.  And so eventually that turned into a full-time job at the Salvation Army. And I stayed working washing cars.    I washed cars for 12 years with John. He's just so great. He's one of the greatest Christian dudes you ever met.    He just, he was so vital in my Christian walk in my life. But I was at the Salvation Army. I was running, believe it or not, the lead case manager of Drop-In Center for the Homeless.    And I had conversations with Peoria Rescue Mission at that time, Peoria Rescue Ministries. Now, I'd never been there. I thought they were religious zealots.    You know, it was everything. It was so religious that the guys couldn't be there. But I did know that they did not allow drugs or alcohol.   And so, when I would meet a man that was struggling with addiction and they wanted to get out of them, I would call and talk to Lee and say, “Hey, listen, I got a guy I think would be good for your fit. Can I send him down there?” And so, we kind of built this bond.    Lee and I had this relationship over the phone. I'd never met the guy ever. Back in those days, Lee was really into sending those funny little emails.   You know, they always have a little cartoon or a little message. You know, the email knows that when you're really busy at work, you kind of start deleting after a while. And one day he sent me an email, and it said, “Are you interested?”    And for some reason, I opened it. And I know the reason is God. And he said that they had a position as the assistant director of the rescue mission, but I'd be interested in coming down and applying for the job.    And I went down and met with Lee. And one thing led to another. My wife, Pam, who I'm married to now, I consider my wife.   I can't believe that I'm married to somebody who loves God. Now, I know we're supposed to stay the way that we are, biblically a single and all these things scripturally as we come to Christ to stay that way. But this is my first marriage.    This is my marriage. In Christ, we're in marriage. She is the most wonderful. She's my gift that God just kind of gave me to care for and to nurture and to love her the way that I should.  But she really encouraged me. At the time of the Salvation Army, we were HUD funded.    I couldn't openly share my faith. I always had to take back doors to it. And she's like, this is what you've always prayed for.    They'll let you do that there, take the job. And so, I did. And that's how I came on at Peoria Rescue Ministries.    Eventually it became Pathway Ministries. I just kind of worked as Mr. Rokey, came on board in 2016. And then in 2018, we're really trying to do some things back there.   And from the way we used to do them, meeting people in crisis, I had a lot of good ideas.  And John had a lot of great ideas. And we're on the same page.    And he asked me to be program director. And I'm like, well, I'd love to, if I can write a program. And so, he just gave me free reign.   And then now I'm the director of residential ministries at Pathway Ministries. Just being able to allow God to blow that whole thing up. And he has to meet people just like me, just like so many other sons and daughters out there that need to have a God block put in front of them while they're in their crisis.    And so, it's just been a beautiful thing. And I just praise God for all the leadership and just what we've been able to do. And that's how I came to Pathway Ministries.    Just being able to do God's work there. It's incredible. It's crazy.   Putting it in a nutshell is really hard because there's been so many things that the Lord has done personally and through the ministry. It has just been incredible, the path that he's had me.   Laura Dugger: (45:57 - 46:35) You do such an amazing work there, and it is a worthy ministry to support. We'll definitely put links in the show notes for today's episode for Pathway Ministries. And that's a whole other conversation to talk about the miracles witnessed there.   But just to go back and close a few loops, I'm sorry, I'm going to throw a few things at you.  So, when did Pam come into the picture? And what's a current snapshot of your life with your children now?   And what did forgiveness look like with your family of origin?   Brian Butler: (46:37 - 52:04) Yeah, so my father passed away while I was in prison. It was an amazing story with my dad. He met me in prison and wanted to meet with me.   And I hadn't seen my father in years, and he came to the prison lot. I had worked through the forgiveness of my dad, I think, before we met, but he came to ask my forgiveness. And I'll never forget, he said, Brian, I made the wrong choice.    My whole life, I've made the wrong choices. And I'm just really sorry. And so, it was a sweet moment with me and him.   I'm not saying that we had a, you know, it wasn't like we're father, son kind of stuff.  But when he passed away, there's no false guilt. There's no guilt.    There's nothing I'm trusting. He even actually became a minister of the Catholic Church in the place that he lived. And I believe that he came to faith in Christ and Christ alone.   So, it was really something to see that transformation in my dad, even though he was, you know, he saw a lot of stuff. But I truly believe that the father entered his heart. My mom, shortly after I was incarcerated, after that experience at the jail, started to come around a little bit and supported me.   You know, and I think the biggest thing that helped me in or helped our relationship in the prison was I didn't ask for things. When I was able to talk to my mother, I was able to say, how are you? And just kind of relieve her of the burden.   It was bad enough that her son was in prison. It was bad enough that she had to see her son on the evening news and everything that I put her through. I just wanted to mend that and just to comfort my mom and just love my mom the best possible.    So, our relationship really grew through those days. And it's so amazing. So, here's a woman that said, you're dead to me, and I don't want around anymore.    In 2019, my mom and stepdad have been since Indiana, and they're aging now. They're in their early 80s. But in 2019, we had a family conversation, and she wanted to move to Peoria, Illinois, so that my wife and I could take care of her and him in their old age.    So, they lived two miles away from us, and we were able to meet my mom. It's crazy. And just to be able to be in a relationship with her and to be able to care for her, getting ready to take a trip down to Kentucky to see her sister, and all that entails.   So, it's just been a wonderful blessing for a relationship. My mom knows God's real because he's changed me and my children. While I didn't beat them over the head with the Bible, they know that God is real because they've seen him work in me.   They've all struggled with addiction and all those kinds of things. But I'm happy to say that all three of them are clean and sober. Right now, my son followed in my footsteps.    Unfortunately, he grew up, even though I wasn't there. I was divorced from his mother when he was two years old. But he always looked to me, and he always saw the tough guy and the gangster.   And I think that's what he really wanted to be. He ended up getting a prison sentence, and he spent 13 years in prison. And he is getting out in February.    So that's encouraging. But all three of them are clean and sober, and those relationships have been restored. Pam and I, you can imagine, Pam had no idea about addiction or lifestyle or gangsters.   So I am completely off the rails, foreign to her.  But she tells me all the time, she doesn't know that old guy. All she knows is me.   And she can hear stories, and she can hear testimonies. And of course, my mom is very open to share anything at a family dinner about Brian, which I'm like, please, mom, don't talk. But she hears those stories, and she just says, I don't know that man.    I don't know who that was. This is the man I'm married to. And so, it's just, we have a wonderful relationship.    She's my biggest supporter, my biggest fan. We pray together. We love the Lord together.  It's really something. I'm not saying that we haven't had a lot of hurt because my kids have been in addiction. I'm saying it hasn't been really, really hard.   But through those sufferings, that's how Jesus makes it more like him, through those sufferings and through those hard times.  And he's given me an avenue personally to be able to help others. So, I love that scripture.    It gives us this comfort. We needed the comfort so that one day you can comfort others with that same kind of comfort. So, he's enabled me to be in a position where I can comfort other folks in addiction and build great teams here at Pathway that are ministering to the folks that we serve in a meaningful way for the Lord.    And then I've been able to serve my wife. I've been able to serve her and that's what I want to do.   Laura Dugger: (52:05 - 52:31) Oh, it is evident to see you two at church and see you two holding hands and just your gentle way of interacting with each other is even a testimony. So how incredible that God has restored so much that was broken. And even going back to your brother Mark, was he rejoicing to hear you were now walking with Jesus as your Lord and Savior?   Brian Butler: (52:32 - 54:07) Yeah, well, at first it was kind of like the prodigal son story, and he was the big brother rather than me. I think at first there was a lot of, and rightfully so, I was no good. And so, I had the hearing officer tell me one time in Springfield Illinois when I was trying to get my driver's license back, which was another God story.    And I have a driver's license after five DUIs. I had that hearing officer tell me, even though I had been clean and sober for seven years, he said, you know, talk is cheap. He said, walking it is different.   So, you come back and see me in a year and when you've walked it, then we'll have a talk about giving you a driver's license. And I've always kind of stored that in my heart with my relationship with my brother. And now after my brother has seen me walk it, we have a pretty good relationship.    We're in cahoots because I'm taking care of mom. And so, we have a pretty good relationship there. Yeah, so it's been really a miracle.    Miracles of what has happened in relationships. Now some relationships that I've had, even with family members, you know, hey, that Brian Butler is still nothing but a no-good dope dealing maniac. And we're, you know, we're done.    And that's okay. That's God's job. My job is to keep walking the walk and talking the talk and sticking close to him and not letting anything get in the way of that and doing whatever I can to restore relationships and then let God do the rest.    And so, it's been, it's hard, but good. Yeah.   Laura Dugger: (54:08 - 54:22) You are a new creation. And Brian, I know you could continue teaching us so many things. Is there any encouragement you want to share before our conversation comes to a close?   Brian Butler: (54:23 - 56:46) Yeah, I would just say if you're, I had some, when I was going through it with my daughter, I had a lot of good counselors around me.  And then I got some advice that I didn't follow. And I'm so glad that I didn't.   I certainly think that if when we meet people that are in living destructive lifestyles, or you have a child in addiction and alcoholism, and they are just burning everything down around you, absolutely to set up boundaries and to limit communication to where they're draining you to death.  But if they're still breathing, then there's still hope. And we should never forget that there's hope and that God is so much bigger, and we can trust him with them more than what we can do with them.   I struggled for years with my daughter in addiction and being up in the middle of the night, just waiting on a phone call and praying and pleading and even thinking, Lord, it would be better if she was just gone.  If you just took her, would you? It's so harrowing.   But I never cut off communication completely because when she came out of the pig pen, I'm going to run. Now there were several runs that I made that, you know, she wasn't really out of the pig pen, but I don't regret that. And my daughter will say to a lot of folks, even though inside I kind of gave up in certain times, but I didn't make the life to end.    And she'll say, my dad never gave up on me. My dad was always there for me. And so, I just want to encourage people, if they're breathing, there's still hope and you can still put up boundaries and be strong and not give in and not give money and not do all those things, but there's still hope and our hope was in Christ.   And then we can hope that he does that work and that he'll do that work in us as we're hoping him to do it in others. So that's what I would just leave with folks that are really going through it because I've been through it. I've put people through it.   It's a tangled web and there's a whole lot, but you need to be around people that are going to love you and care for you and come around to you. You need to tell the truth to other people so that you don't hide it because it will destroy you.   Laura Dugger: (56:47 - 57:22) That's so good, Brian. How special to have her daddy never give up on her. And it reflects that greater truth that our heavenly father never gives up on any of us.  And he died for us even while we were still sinners. Thank you for sharing that.   And you may be familiar that we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, Brian, what is your savvy sauce?   Brian Butler: (57:24 - 58:36) I would say my savvy sauce is living in a daytight compartment, living this life one moment at a time, one day at a time, certainly making plans for the future, certainly living that life out. But I'm going to do what the Lord wants me to do right now. And then what he wants me to do next and what he wants me to do after that.    But just really staying in that daytight compartment. You know, I teach our students all the time at Pathway Ministries, really when we come to faith, this is really simplistic, but after we come to faith in the Lord Jesus, it really is about doing the next little right thing. And then the next little right thing after that, and the next little right thing after that.   And no one does the next little right thing all the time. But when you don't do the next little right thing, you get up and do the next little right thing. Understanding that sometimes doing the next little right thing might be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life.   And so, if we stay in that daytime compartment with Jesus, he'll help us through that next little right thing.  And so that's my savvy. So, I was just staying in the moment and doing the next little right thing.   Laura Dugger: (58:37 - 59:08) Oh, I love that so much. Ryan, you are an admirable man who walks the walk, and God has gifted you with such passion and such a compelling story. So, thank you for continuing to faithfully obey him.   You are certainly shining in our community and faithfully serving our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So, thank you for being my guest.   Brian Butler: (59:09 - 59:11) Thank you so much, Laura Dugger. We love you.   Laura Dugger: (59:11 - 1:02:28) We love you, too.   One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.    Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.    We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.    That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.    This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.    Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.    And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.    First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.    You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.    We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.    And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.    And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Piyush Jain, Founder and CEO of Simpalm and co-founder of Ducknowl, is on a mission to solve real-world challenges by combining technology and entrepreneurship. With over 15 years of experience building custom software solutions, Piyush helps businesses turn complex ideas into practical applications by blending technical depth, business acumen, and a strong problem-solving mindset. We explore Piyush's AI Ideation Framework—Validate idea, Proof of concept, Design, Competitor analysis, and Feature selection—a practical approach to building software in the post-AI era. Piyush explains how AI can help teams better understand user personas, validate product assumptions, and rapidly prototype ideas, while human expertise remains essential in design, architecture, and production-grade development. He also shares how prompt engineering, peer-reviewed prompting, and a right-shoring delivery model can help businesses build smarter, faster, and more cost-effectively. — 3D Print Your Software with Piyush Jain Good day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint, and my guest today is Piyush Jain, the Founder and CEO of Simpalm, a custom software development company, and the co-founder of Ducknowl, a candidate screening and assessment application business for high-volume recruiting. Piyush, welcome to the show.  Thank you, Steve. Thanks for inviting me.  Well, I’m very curious about the stuff that you have to share with us, and I’d like to ask first about your personal purpose. What is your “why,” and how are you manifesting it in your business?  Yeah, so that’s a very interesting question. And I think for every entrepreneur or tech founder, really, that's the motivation—why you want to do certain things. So for me, if I look at it, my personal “why” is: why are we not solving challenges? Or why are we not solving them the right way? Why are we not transforming our lives? I grew up in India and then came to the US, so I've seen many different parts of the world—from Asia to North America. I see people face different challenges, but then we are not focusing on solving those problems. A lot of it I see is there’s a lot of challenges in the world because I believe there are not enough entrepreneurs. Because entrepreneurs are the ones who really take risks, combine everything, and create solutions. That was like me, right? That’s what I learned growing up, that I think I can do that, right? I can combine the technical knowledge and the business acumen and create solutions that people like, solve their challenges. Growing up, like I'm more on the technical side.Share on X I was inclined more toward science and technology, but then as I got into my undergrad and grad school, I realized that I have that entrepreneurship aspect, but it's still around science and technology. That’s when I realized that, you know what, I cannot be a pure scientist or maybe a pure entrepreneur, but I can be someone who can combine these two, because my main driving factor is problem-solving. I can combine these two and then live my life, be very happy with what I do. That has been my motivation. I like it. So solving challenges and being an entrepreneur, and kind of combining the two—being the technical expert and the entrepreneur in one. Now, one of the things that we always talk about on this podcast is frameworks. And you have developed a really good one for AI ideation, which I think is something that everyone needs to do these days or use these days, and it helps you create business apps and other business applications. Can you share with me how that framework works, and what are the steps in it?  Sure, yeah, definitely. So just to give you a brief background, we've been building software for the last 15 years. Some companies have used different frameworks, whether it's Agile or Waterfall in SDLC, in building the software, right? There are different methodology that companies have used, and they've been good, successful—they've played their role. But now, with the advent of AI, things have changed. We had to figure out, in our organization, how to use AI, and that's how this framework was built. My team helped me building this framework as well.Share on X But we realized that we were losing business—we were losing clients—since we didn't have an AI framework that would fit our clients. Again, for me, it's a challenge. So anytime I see a challenge, it create brain juice in me, right? So I said, okay, let's figure out how we create this framework. How did you do it?  So really, we built this framework—very interesting. A lot of the steps are similar, but then a lot of things are different.Share on X Whenever client comes to us and says, “Hey, we want to solve this challenge,” what we do is we do enough research. And now we use a lot of AI tools to really understand the problem better and understand the user persona. When you build any software application, there is a person who's going to use that. Sometimes we used to do user research or focus studies to understand that. Now, with the help of AI, we can get a lot of ideas about the user persona. For example, maybe we are building a healthcare application for an anesthesiologist. I don’t know much about that. I know, I mean, because I have been through some medical surgery and all that, but I can't fully understand their user persona or their requirements with respect to the application we're building. But now, with AI, I can actually ask different AI models, “Hey, we are building this app for anesthesiologists. What are their pain points? How would they see it?” So all that deeper mindset and psychology we can get using AI.  You are validating the idea by interrogating AI applications.  What users are going to like and all that. So I will always use this term earlier. In software engineering, now we have this pre-AI and post-AI, right? If you read history, we talk about before Christ and after Christ, right? Yeah. So it's a similar thing now. Yeah, exactly. Or before Covid, after Covid. Before AI, after we did all the user research and everything and created a requirements document, we would usually do design, create like a visual design of the software. But now, with the AI framework, we don't do that. That's not the next step. What we do instead is create a quick prototype using AI platforms.Share on X  So there are a lot of AI platforms—like Lovable, Claude. Now ChatGPT launched Codex for coding, and Replit. Depending on what kind of application you're building—for example, maybe if you're building a web-based application—then I recommend using Lovable or Replit. They're very good at creating that. Whatever software you want to build, whatever user personas that you’re addressing, you can feed into that and it’ll create like a prototype application. Okay.  So what that does is actually, then this prototype, clients can just take it to their customers or internal users and get feedback. A picture is better than a thousand words. Organizations discussing an idea is very different from when they actually see something. Then everybody starts chipping in—“Oh yeah, I see this in the prototype, but I don't want this,” or “I want to move things around,” or “This is what I want.” Basically, building a prototype on AI platforms is much faster than building wireframes and design prototypes like we used to do earlier. So that has changed. So you're 3D printing your software, right?  Yes, exactly. There you go. Well, that’s a very good way you put it together. Yeah. So, yeah, exactly. You’re just 3D printing the software, right? So you can see it, visualize it, and then once you go through that, it creates a lot of better ideas about the software in faster time. So once you have that, then you go into UI/UX design. So in that also, there are two steps. One is wireframing. Wireframing is like creating the flow in black and white. It's like creating a skeleton of your software. It does not have the color, the font, or the branding, but you just create all the different user journeys, the screens, the flow, and the fields that will be there on the screen. So we have integrated AI into that step as well. Earlier, it used to be created by a designer or a business analyst. Now we are using software like Uizard or UX Pilot, where we define what we want—what kind of user journey, flows, and screens—and it creates that. It spins out those wireframes in minutes. So really that has reduced now. The time it used to take to create wire frames is faster now.  So you're designing the wireframes with AI?  Yes, but it's just the wireframe part of it, and it's still guided by our expert VA or designer—someone who knows how to really visualize things and has done a lot of wireframes and sketches. So they know what to tell the AI. Prompting is very important. It's very important that you know how to prompt—what to ask for—so that you can get variations and differentiation in the wireframes. You don't want a standard AI-created wireframe. Everybody can recognize AI-generated images now, right? If I show you one, you'd say, “Oh yeah, it's AI-generated.” I know that, right? Yeah. So again, we keep the human intelligence. We're not asking AI to create the full software end-to-end. It never works—it'll never work. It just doesn't. I know that's a strong statement, but I'm saying that based on experience and an understanding of human behavior and psychology. So AI agents will not be able to code software, in your opinion?  No, they can do the coding, but they cannot build the whole software end-to-end—a production-deployed software. Because these software are being used by humans. You have to have human intelligence to understand and define what you need and how it works.Share on X You can maybe create some software, but it doesn't work very well. Even if you use all these platforms, you can cut down your production time and cost by 30%, 40%, 50%, right? That's the number we are seeing—30 to 50% reduction, depending on the software you're building and the objectives. So just to recap—you validate the idea by interrogating Claude and ChatGPT, asking about the needs of that customer, the psychology of the customer—that's step number one. Step number two is 3D printing the software with Lovable or Replit—so proof of concept. And then you design the wireframes. And then what's next after you design the wireframes? What's the next step?  So that’s a good thing. That’s it. Now I'm going to talk about the human element—some people listening to this podcast will be surprised. Now it comes to visual design, right? So you've created the skeleton, and now you have to add the skin, the tone, the color, the emotion to the design, to the workflow. Now, we have tried AI, but it doesn't work. It's very monotonous. So we use an experienced visual designer, a UX designer, for that step—to give it emotion. When you use AI—I wish I could show you some examples—it creates very similar kinds of designs for apps and software. So what we did is we gave it three different apps with very different objectives and everything, and the designs it came up with were very similar—blocks, buttons—very monotonous. So there's no differentiation. And design is the main thing that becomes the differentiator, right?  Yeah.  So that's what we learned from our experience. And I say that very categorically in all of my talks—that visual design, final UX, has to be human, not AI.Share on X Because you are communicating emotions, right? And AI is still not there to communicate emotions.  Yeah. It doesn’t have emotions.  Well, some people will argue with you and say, “No, it can understand if you're sad or unhappy.” But my response to that is—it's because we've programmed it that way. But things change based on situation, context, ethnicity, culture, fear—how people express nervousness, fear, and all that—it's very different. So there was this AI video interviewing company five or six years ago. They were sued by the Department of Justice because they were trying to detect emotions of people like anxious, nervous, when the interview was happening.  It turned out their model was trained only on one race—they didn't account for other races or ethnicities. So their model failed, and they were sued by Department of Justice for that. So yeah, emotions is something—maybe they have unlimited dimensions, we don't know. So it's hard to program that. So basically: ideation, prototype, wireframe, and then final visual design—that's the discovery and design framework. Now, when it comes to development framework, this is where AI has been a game changer—the coding part. But again, you have to be very careful about how you use AI in your coding pattern with your coding team. It depends on the application, it depends on the tech stack, right? Every platform has its own strengths and weaknesses. For example, if you want to build a web-based application in the React JS framework, then Lovable is great. That's very good—very efficient and cost-effective. Then Claude is there. Claude has been really good in software engineering. I would say it has been built and designed mostly for coding, right? Anthropic—their idea, their starting point—was coding, how to make coding and software engineering better.  So they've been a front runner in the race. ChatGPT is trying to catch up using Codex, and Copilot is great. Copilot is mostly used by enterprises who are on the Microsoft stack. They use Copilot a lot for coding in .NET and enterprise-level applications. They’re used to co-pilot. It’s because they feel comfortable with Microsoft security policies and all that. That’s fine. But in general, we see Claude to be at the top—from our perspective. We've also built a framework for software coding. In software development, there's a popular process called peer review. So when you create source code, you get it reviewed by your peer—your colleague.Share on X  Is this what happens on GitHub?  Yeah, yes. So basically anywhere—any source code repository—you can do that. So your team members can help you make your code better and more efficient.  Yeah, I understand. But now we have a step called prompt peer review. When you're using prompts to build software, those prompts get reviewed by team members. Because if your prompts are not very specific or good enough all the way through the SDLC, you can run into a lot of challenges trying to fix the code. Because now you have a situation where you have code that you have not written fully, and when you ask AI to change something in the code, sometimes it ends up changing a lot of things that you don't want it to change. Yeah.  That's what we've seen, and that's why we evolved. Before we build any software, we create maybe a 10-, 20-, 30-page prompt document, where we go through each screen and function and write it out. It's very sophisticated—it has evolved really well. But the thing is, it takes a few days to do that within the team, because we know if we do it right, the next step is faster and more accurate. So really, the prompt document—think of it more like an architecture document. Earlier, we used to create a solution architecture document, defining all the tools, the design, everything.  But now it's more like an AI-driven solution architecture document with prompts, which get reviewed by team members. So we do that, and then we run that, and we get the code and everything. So I have a CTO club—I run a CTO Club in Maryland—and I was talking to CTOs. They're all using this, but some of them are so advanced that they actually define the test cases in the beginning. They define, “Okay, this is what I want, this is the function I want, and these are the test cases I want it to pass.” That's even more advanced. If you can do that, you can have very efficient code.  Yeah, I love it.  So is that the end? You have your test cases, you design the prompt, you peer-review the prompt, and you already had the prototype, so now you're coding the software—what's the last step?  Yeah. Then there’s an integration as well. So AI doesn’t do the integration so well. You can do the front-end coding, you can do the back-end coding, you can probably create the APIs. APIs require a lot more human intervention. But once you have that, then you have to connect it, right? You have to connect the front end with the backend. A lot of that is still done by the programmer. It's hard to rely on AI for doing that. And again, it depends on the application. Maybe if it's a smaller application, maybe you can have AI do that. But if it's a bigger application—we mostly build bigger applications—then integration, then final QA and testing, and deployment.  So all that is there. But in each of these steps, you can use some sort of AI tool to speed up the process. But the key is you still have to have your architecture, the process. You have to know the steps more. You have to be a good, experienced developer to use AI efficiently if you want to build a production-ready application. You can build a prototype. Anybody can build a prototype on Replit or Lovable, but it's not going to be production-ready that you can give to your customer and charge them money. So that’s the differentiator.  Yeah, I understand. So Piyush, I’d like to switch gears here. I understand the AI ideation framework—that's great. We talked about the technical part of it, the curiosity, the technical challenges. Let’s talk about the entrepreneurship part, which is also part of your profile. So what drives the growth of your business? What would you say drives it?  For us, there are multiple factors that drive the growth of our business. The first is, again, our problem-solving attitude. Any client that comes to us we communicate in that modelShare on X The problem, the challenge, the solution, the business part, the value proposition we bring. And the second factor is our location. We are here in Maryland, and we have another office in Chicago. So being here, we have a global shoring model—that's a main driving factor of our business from the entrepreneurship perspective. So what the global shoring model is: our client-facing team, the senior team, is here—solution architects, sales engineers, designers, project managers, business analysts—they are here in the US, client-facing. And our dev team and testers are in our offshore locations.  Some people call it hybrid shoring. I call it right shoring. The reason I call it right shoring is because in this model, you have the right people at the right shore, so you get the most value. Here, you have people who understand the culture, the product, the context—because products are used by people in a certain culture. And if you are not in that culture, if you haven't experienced it, it's always harder to design the right software solution. I was one of the first people to start that model here in the DMV area for mid-size and smaller companies. This model existed before, but mostly for large enterprise companies. They have used that. But I started to offer that 16 years ago to smaller companies. Either companies were just going offshore, or they were doing onshore, right? I introduced this hybrid—or right-shoring—model, and it has been well received by our customers. So that’s it.  So what is one thing that you’re trying to figure out in your business right now?  Right now, what I'm trying to figure out in my business is scaling. I mean, we have built solutions for many different industries. We have built solutions for different clients in fintech, healthcare, education, nonprofit, startups, IoT, construction. But now what we are trying to figure out is how do we create some off-the-shelf solutions for different industries? Because one challenge we see is that, from the client's perspective, getting custom software built takes time and money. But in certain use cases, we can have off-the-shelf, industry-specific solutions, and then customize those based on the client's needs.  So that's what we are trying to figure out—across different industries, what those solutions can be—so we can scale and also make it easier. And these are more like AI-driven, off-the-shelf solutions that are customizable. So think of it like Salesforce—its core is off-the-shelf, but then you can customize the front end and a lot of other things. Not exactly like Salesforce, but more like industry-specific solutions for different use cases—nonprofit, construction, right? With those, overall, we can build solutions faster.  That’s fascinating. So how has the offshoring—or right shoring, as you call it—model evolved over the past 10 years? Is it different now than it was 10 or 20 years ago?  Yeah, I think that's a great question. It has evolved and changed. Earlier—maybe 10, 12 years ago—when we were talking about hybrid shoring, we were mostly talking about the US and Asia. But now we have different players. We have the nearshore model, which has become quite popular as well—like South America. We have team members in nearshore locations as well, in South America, because we want to leverage different time zones, resources, and culture. And we've seen very positive results. Then you have Eastern Europe. We have competition from countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Romania, Poland. I think it’s the part of the globalized world, right? It's like energy flowing in different spaces—it's not limited to one place, which is great. That's one way it has evolved.  I also know some companies working in Kenya—there are developers there. Some companies are setting up in East Africa, West Africa. So different places are playing roles now. That’s one thing I see. And now, with the help of AI, what's going to happen is it will play two roles. One— in many situations, with AI, you can do more things onshore. That’s one aspect of it. And second—with AI, someone sitting offshore who knows how to use AI can become very competitive as well. We don't have enough data yet to fully see how this will evolve, but maybe in a year or so, we'll see how it plays out.  But I also find that with these simultaneous translation tools—like Apple, I think an iPhone can now translate in all languages. Essentially, another barrier falls that if the language and knowledge of your offshore contractor is not perfect, they can understand things much more clearly because of simultaneous translation. Even on Zoom, you can now flip a switch and they can read what's being said in their own language during a conversation. So that's amazing, I think.  Yeah. That’s amazing. That’s amazing. They can understand more about the culture and mindset. So that's something have to see. Again, I think it depends on the use case, the application, the problem we're solving. But in some cases, it might be great news for onshore—we can keep more dollars here. But keeping dollars here with AI also means a lot of that spend is going to AI, right? So that's one thing—we have to be very careful. Yesterday, in our tech breakfast, our presentation was about how to optimize your AI tokens. There are some companies spending $150,000 per year per employee on tokens. Wow.  That's like the salary of one employee.  Yeah.  A mid-level developer—$150K—they're spending that much. And then they’re trying to figure out how to optimize it. And on top of that, they have cloud costs, right? AWS, Azure—those costs are still there—and then you add AI. So it's a lot of money. You really have to be very smart about understanding and optimizing it. That’s why the prompting is so important, right? It's not just about getting the right software—it's also about getting the cost down.  Yeah. Again, you need expert people who can prompt well, because it's about being able to communicate well. Prompting is about communication—it's about clarity, brevity, security, all that stuff. So, Piyush, we're coming close to the end of the recording. If someone would like to learn more about the applications you develop, how you're using AI, and how you can help their business develop technology, where can they find you? What's the best way to get in touch with you? Sure, there are many ways people can reach out to me. They can go to my website, www.simpalm.com—we have a contact form there. They can submit the form, or they can reach out to me via email directly at contact@simpalm.com. They can also connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn—message me there if somebody needs anything. I always like discussing problems and what the solutions can be. If anybody reaches out to me, I'm always very quick to respond.  That's awesome. So Piyush Jain, the CEO of Simpalm—and we didn't even talk about your other business, Ducknowl—thank you for coming, and thank you for sharing your insights and your framework on how to build an ideation framework for AI. So thanks for sharing that. And if you're listening and you enjoyed this conversation, then stay tuned, because every week we have another entrepreneur sharing their insights and frameworks with you. So make sure you follow us on YouTube, subscribe, and give us a review on Apple Podcasts. So thanks for coming. Thank you, Steve. It was a pleasure talking to you. Important Links: Piyush's LinkedIn Piyush's website

Student Jodie Morrow tells Nuala McGovern about her ordeal of being arrested after her stalker falsely accused her of stalking him. He has now been jailed after pleading guilty to harassment and perverting the course of justice, and the Police Service of Northern Ireland has acknowledged "shortcomings" in how the case was handled. Jodie is now helping the police to try to improve how they handle stalking cases.How does light inspire and motivate us, and how can we harness it and use it to our advantage? GP Dr Radha Modgil joins Nikki Bedi to discuss the impact of light on our health and wellbeing.The largest display of Queen Elizabeth II's clothing has opened at The King's Gallery, Buckingham Palace. The exhibition, 'Elizabeth II: Her Life in Style', marks the centenary of the late Queen's birth and brings together around 200 items. Spanning all 10 decades of her life, it showcases the full breadth of her wardrobe. Anita Rani visited the gallery for a tour with its curator, Caroline de Guitaut.Do you think that having kids makes you happy? A new study from the University of Nicosia in Cyprus suggests not. It drew on data from more than 5,000 participants in ten countries, including the UK, and concluded that there is no strong evidence that parenthood leads to a measurable increase in positive emotions. To discuss the findings and weigh up their own experiences, we hear from two mothers of two - Ella Whelan author of ‘What Women Want,' and Iko Haruna, a family photographer and former presenter of ParentLand, the BBC World Service's podcast.Indigo Reign, formerly known as Lady MC, is one of the first female MCs in jungle music. She's just been part of a landmark moment for global music culture, bringing the 'godfathers' of drum and bass, Fabio and Grooverider, to headline the first-ever jungle and drum & bass festival in East Africa, called NURAFest and it took place in Kenya. Born in prison, she grew up around gang culture and found her voice in jungle music, becoming an award-winning MC and artist, who turned disadvantage on its head. She's also the founder of the Young Urban Arts Foundation, helping thousands of young people through music.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Dianne McGregor

The Church of England is planning to issue an apology for its role in forced adoption, according to a draft seen by the BBC. During the 1950s, 60s and 70s tens of thousands of babies were forcibly taken from their unmarried mothers, women who had been sent away to homes run by the Church and state. The news of a potential apology comes just a fortnight after the House of Commons education committee published a report of their inquiry into the issue and called for a state apology from the Government. Anita Rani is joined by Labour MP Helen Hayes, chair of that committee, along with Diana Defries, Chair of the Movement for an Adoption Apology, whose daughter was taken away 12 days after she gave birth.The largest display of Queen Elizabeth II's clothing ever to be staged will open on 10 April at The King's Gallery, Buckingham Palace. The exhibition, called Elizabeth II: Her Life in Style, marks the centenary of the late Queen's birth and includes around 200 items, about half of which are on display for the first time. It charts clothing worn in all 10 decades of Queen Elizabeth's life, many designed by Norman Hartnell, and it spans the full breadth of her wardrobe, from couture eveningwear to impeccably tailored off-duty clothing. Ahead of the exhibition opening to the public, Anita went to meet its curator, Caroline de Guitaut, to take a tour.Once thought politically unstoppable, recently Italian voters said 'no' to Giorgia Meloni's proposed judicial reforms in a referendum. So what does that rejection tell us about her current political position after more than three years in charge? And why, earlier this morning, did she feel the need to address the Italian Parliament? In October 2022 she became Italy's first female Prime Minister and as of September this year she will have had the longest continuous term in office in Italy since the Second World War, surpassing the late Silvio Berlusconi's record. Anita is joined by senior BBC European reporter Laura Gozzi and Director of the Institute of International Affairs Nathalie Tocci.Indigo Reign, formerly known as Lady MC, is one of the first female MCs in jungle music. She's just been part of a landmark moment for global music culture, bringing the "godfathers" of drum and bass, Fabio and Grooverider, to headline the first-ever jungle and drum & bass festival in East Africa, called NURAFest and it took place in Kenya. Born in prison, she grew up around gang culture and found her voice in jungle music, becoming an award-winning MC and artist, who turned disadvantage on its head. She's also the founder of the Young Urban Arts Foundation, helping thousands of young people through music. Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Andrea Kidd

Christian Advice for Toxic Relationships Part 2 with Kris Reece (Episode 289)   *Disclaimer* This episode contains mature content and user discretion is suggested.   2 Timothy 3:1-5 NIV “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.”   *Transcription Below*   Kris Reece is a Christian Author, Toxic Relationship Coach, and Manipulation Tactics Specialist. Kris equips believers to escape the grip of toxic relationships—especially those shaped by guilt, confusion, or spiritual distortion. Her work empowers Christians to set biblical boundaries and walk in emotional and spiritual freedom. Connect with her on Instagram or through her website.    Thank you to our sponsor for today's episode: Sam Leman Eureka   Topics and Questions We Cover: Do you believe it's more nature or nurture or do you have any insight on why people are narcissists? Can we cut off toxic people without disobeying God? Will you share how we can forgive biblically, without tolerating further abuse?   Other Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce Podcast: 146 Biblical Response to Emotionally Destructive Relationships with Leslie Vernick 148 Overcoming Evil with Good: Recognizing Spiritual Abuse with Dr. Diane Langberg 263. Domestic Violence and Abuse: Identifying and Healing from Abusive Relationships with Stacey Womack   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:10)   Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 1:13) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.   Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank, who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.   My returning guest for today is Kris Reece. If you didn't listen to last week's episode, I hope that you'll just press pause right now and go back to listen to part one.   After reading her amazing book, Breaking the Narcissist's Grip, I knew that we would need multiple weeks to cover this very important topic. So, we're going to dive deeper into part two today. Here's our chat.   Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Kris.   Kris Reece: (1:14 - 1:18) Thank you so much, Laura. I am so excited to be here again today.   Laura Dugger: (1:18 - 1:47) Well, I am delighted to have you back. And it was so surprising your answer to that first question last week. So, I want to unpack that a little bit further.   You were talking about so many adults who were struggling and coming for coaching that they were identifying the same thing, a relationship with a toxic mother. And so, can you paint the picture of what that actually looked like when they had that realization?   Kris Reece: (1:49 - 5:10) Well, you know, what's interesting is everybody had different realizations. Some came to them on their own. I wish I could take credit for it.   They really just came to the wow, I didn't realize just how much my mother keeps coming into this. And then others were really, you know, we had to kind of dig a little bit deeper in terms of what happened in childhood. And again, I'm not the type of counselor who would just sit back and look for excuses to blame somebody's parents.   Absolutely not. But when we start to kind of take a step back into the past to understand what's happening in the present, that's when all of that began to unfold. So, one woman in particular, oh, Laura, it broke my heart.   Absolutely. So, she was struggling with a very difficult marriage. She had no idea what she wanted to do with her life.   And she, honestly, from the way what she said, she says, I don't even know who I am. And when we started to unpack the relationship with her mother and her father and what life looked like when she was growing up, everything was all about pleasing her mother. And I don't mean in a healthy way where, of course, we want to please and get the approval of our parents.   It was to such an extreme that if she didn't speak the way her mother wanted her to, if she didn't comply the way her mother wanted her to, the mother would then manipulate. She would start to cry. Why are you destroying me?   Do you not see what you're doing to me? And then if that didn't work, if the daughter even tried to, and I got to tell you, from what I hear from this young lady, like maybe the age of 12, she had some pretty healthy responses that she was trying to take to this woman. And when that didn't go well, the mother wouldn't talk to her for a week, a week.   She wouldn't even cook for her. She wouldn't do anything. She wouldn't even acknowledge her presence.   So, this woman grew up believing that I now have to perform. And what's worse, she developed these codependent traits because she learned how to be a mood monitor. I have to now tiptoe around what is mom going to think.   What is mom going to say? And no longer is she now doing what's right. She's doing what feels right, meaning what's going to keep me out of trouble?   What's going to keep mom most happy with me? And she knew all of this was dysfunctional. But at the same time, of course, you're talking about a 12-year-old, and obviously these traits were going on long before that.   She's just learning how to cope. She's not there to parent the parent. But so now that's what she was taught and caught.   So, it's not like the mother came out of the bedroom every morning and said, hey, I'm going to teach you how to perform for me. I'm going to teach you how to monitor all of my moods. She didn't do that.   Everything was caught. So now her default mechanism is giving in to problematic relationships, tiptoeing around, avoiding things. So that's where the issue in her marriage then came in, and it started to get unpacked when we discovered what relationship with mom was like.   Laura Dugger: (5:12 - 5:39) Okay, and that's always so helpful to hear a true story, how that played out. I'm hearing sometimes maybe if you have a parent who's a narcissist, maybe that's likely that the child will experience codependency. But then also, do you see it as a typical generational pattern?   Let's say if you had a narcissistic mother, a lot of times she'll raise a narcissistic son and so on.   Kris Reece: (5:41 - 8:02) Unfortunately, yes. So guaranteed narcissism? Absolutely not. Guaranteed dysfunctional traits? Yes, unfortunately. So how can I be in an unhealthy environment and walk out healthy?   Unless I've done some work to recognize what the unhealthy patterns were. This is how I, I don't want to say contributed as in the child is at fault, but this is what I did to cope. And what helped me survive back then is actually killing me today.   So, unless a child, an adult child is going to begin to do that work, then yes, they're going to continue to carry some dysfunctional traits. Is it automatic that they will become narcissists? No, no, no, no, absolutely not.   Can they? Sure. Absolutely.   So, when we talk about how narcissism gets developed, it's especially through raising, it's either an overly attentive, overly admiring type of parent. Like, you know, Timmy can do no wrong. He's just wonderful and awesome and this and that.   So yeah, chances are Timmy's going to kind of step out of that with some bit of a narcissism. So, when the world smacks him around a little bit and says, Hey, you're not so awesome. He's either going to wake up and say, well, maybe I'm not, or he's now going to make those people the problem.   So narcissistic parents have a tendency to project all of their stuff onto the child. So, I, I encountered this one, one daughter that I worked with whose mother was a narcissist and whose brother now was becoming a narcissist. And what she would do is she would tell the son, this is why your teacher is picking on you.   He's jealous of you. This is why, you know, your, um, your friend doesn't call you anymore. It's because he's jealous of you.   So, she is priming this young man to be a narcissist because when he gets out into the world, not everybody's going to comply to that message. And now he's going to have the language to make them the problem. So, the son was a narcissist, the daughter, not so much, but she had a lot of dysfunctional traits that came as a, as a result of that relationship.   Laura Dugger: (8:03 - 8:16) Okay. So, then kind of the age-old question, do you have any insight for how much narcissism is nature versus nurture? What are we born with versus what are we trained into?   Kris Reece: (8:18 - 11:07) That's an awesome question because science shows us that narcissism is both. It's nature and nurture nature in the sense that we're all born selfish. We're all, we are all born sinful, but nurture, which implies the environment, plays a stronger role in whether those traits are actually going to develop into full blown narcissism or maybe even narcissistic personality disorder, which is far more rare than people think it is.   So, when we look at genetics, so that would be nature, twin and family studies actually suggest about 40 to 60% of narcissistic traits are hereditary, meaning that some people are born with temperaments that make them more prone to arrogance, low empathy, or emotional sensitivity. I don't know that I agree with that entirely, but let's move on to the nurture part. This is your environment.   So, the other 40 to 60% they say come from upbringing, things like overindulging or a highly critical parent. So, it can actually be both sides. So, it's not only the overindulgence, but it's that highly critical parent that is always criticizing but never offering any structured support.   It also comes from that inconsistent affection, conditional love. That's a huge one. I will love you if.   It can also come from childhood trauma, which can actually spawn from neglect or being overly praised for their performance rather than their character. So, in other words, genetics may load the gun, but environment pulls the trigger. So, what starts as survival, I'll never be hurt again, can now grow into pride, control, and entitlement.   So, I believe personally it has more to do with nurture. Science will say there's a strong mix of both. I think it's more nurture.   I do believe that we all have a temperament. You look at any children in your family. I don't know how many kids you have, but you'll see that even from a very young age, they all have very unique personalities from a very young age.   But within that temperament, we're all going to have our strengths and our weaknesses. So, some temperaments may be a little bit more prone to pride that does not guarantee narcissism because I've seen plenty of people with that temperament operate in their strengths as opposed to their weaknesses. So, I think a lot of it has to do more with nurture.   Laura Dugger: (11:08 - 11:38) That is incredibly helpful. And as people have been listening to this conversation and last week's conversation, let's just say if they open up to us and say, I've identified I am in relationship with a narcissist, what's the most helpful thing we can do and the most hurtful way we could respond, especially as Jesus followers?   Kris Reece: (11:39 - 13:30) I know we touched on this lightly last week. The first step is to shift your focus. That focus has got to come off the narcissist and back onto yourself and Jesus and Jesus through you.   You're not going to be able to change them. You are not going to be able to change them. If you're taking notes, I want you to write that down.   You cannot change them. Highlight it. Asterisk it. Circle it. Do whatever you need to do. You cannot change them, but you can choose how you respond.   So, when you stop trying to manage their behavior and start letting God heal your heart, everything changes. So, where we can begin is by saying, Lord, show me. Show me where I've lost my peace and help me take it back.   Show me where I have reacted inappropriately. Show me the entire truth in this situation because this is where real freedom is going to come in, not in fixing them, but in allowing God to restore you. So, you're saying what's the best thing they can do and what's the worst thing they can do?   The worst thing you can do is continue to focus on them. I know you're a narcissist. I know you're doing this.   I see you. Don't, don't, don't. It's going to steal your peace because remember, they've got default tactics.   They're either going to start love bombing and you're going to think, oh, this was great. I changed them. You didn't change them.   They just changed their tactic or they're going to start gaslighting you and they're going to start twisting scripture and they're going to start throwing it back at you. And that, that sense of enlightenment, if I'm allowed to use that word in this sense, that you're so enlightened to what they're doing and what's going on is going to get robbed so quickly. So, shift your focus.   Laura Dugger: (13:31 - 13:53) Okay. And then one step further, let's say it's our friend who comes to us. So then one step removed. Basically, even as the church, how can we respond to that person in a way that's actually helpful to them? And how can we respond in ways that are unintentionally, but still hurtful?   Kris Reece: (13:54 - 17:21) Yeah. So, this is so important. And I wish more people in the church would hear this because some of the worst gas lighters are standing behind the pulpit.   We put spiritual band-aids over demonic hemorrhages and we actually begin to make the situation worse. So, the most helpful thing that you can do is to believe them. Listen without judgment.   Now, I understand that there are a lot of people out there, and especially with that term narcissist. You have a pastor that's sitting down with a woman who comes into the office and says, my husband is a narcissist. We all just bristle.   I bristle when somebody comes in and says, this one's a narcissist. My first question is always going to be this. What makes you say that?   I don't automatically correct them. I don't criticize. And I believe them to the degree that they're going through something.   Doesn't mean I have to believe them to the degree of what they would consider the diagnosis because that's irrelevant. But what we do need to believe is that they are going through something. And they need to be listened to without judgment.   Now, if something's wrong, if something needs to be corrected, we can do that later. Are we really going to bring any harm to somebody by delaying a little bit of correction while we make a proper assessment? So, if we're going to default to either one, whether it's not believing them or believing them, please believe them.   Just be that safe place. Because people in narcissistic relationships, true narcissistic relationships, are already doubting themselves. They are already questioning their own reality.   What they need is safety, not more spiritual pressure. So, we want to avoid things like spiritual bypassing. And this is where we just kind of stick scriptures on that emotional hemorrhage.   Oh, just forgive. Oh, just move on. Don't you think you're overreacting?   Have you prayed on this? Are you giving more sex? You know, we throw all of this.   And that kind of advice actually is the gaslighting that keeps someone trapped in a shame cycle because they walk out of there. I can't tell you the number of times men and women alike, they walk out from a Christian counselor or a church environment, and they feel worse than when they came in. They're not even looking for somebody to say, yes, he's awful. He's the devil. You are so wonderful. That's not even what they're looking for.   They're looking for some semblance of sanity. So, what you want to do is just remind them that Jesus never asked them to confuse love with tolerating abuse. Our job is not to fix their situation but just be that safe place that they need right in that moment.   That's really helpful. I'm a little passionate about that because it really angers me how the church is handling all of this stuff. We do a lot of messages on forgiveness, but we don't do any messages on accountability.   We're not doing any messages on repentance and owning our part. So, it leaves the one who's already assuming the responsibility to try to assume some more.   Laura Dugger: (17:24 - 20:01) And I think that's so helpful for, like you said, for pastors, for people in the church, for biblical counselors, because that can sound great, biblical counseling and giving scripture. But practically, sometimes that, I mean, Satan, even when he was tempting Jesus, used scripture, but twisted it and manipulated it. Not saying that biblical counselors are doing that, but that we can... Not intentionally, but yeah. That's a good clarification because we can misapply that.   And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need. Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America, the resources actually do exist.   That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched. Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa, which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty.   This ministry reaches millions of people every year, and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, cost of leadership, oversight, and other administrative expenses. Donations, volunteers, and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank.   To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce, where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today. My desire would be the same as yours, that people could come to the church as part of their healing.   But I think that is helpful. We need to be aware of where we've gotten this wrong. And it is something you even wrote about in the foreword of your book.   You said that in Christian community, forgiveness is often misapplied as tolerance for abuse. So, is there anything else you'd want to add to that, especially sharing ways that we can forgive biblically without tolerating further abuse?   Kris Reece: (20:02 - 21:54) Absolutely. But first, I have to give credit to the incredible Gloria Gaynor. She was the one who actually wrote that powerful line in the foreword.   Forgiveness is often misapplied for tolerating abuse. And she captured something that I see so often in the church. Many Christians were taught that forgiving someone means keeping them close, pretending the offense never happened, and reconciling and trusting again.   But biblical forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. Because forgiveness releases the offender from your judgment. Reconciliation requires their repentance.   You would be very foolish; I would be very foolish to reconcile in a relationship where there was no repentance. And Jesus commands us to forgive. Matthew 18, 22.   But he never told us to keep giving access to someone who refuses to turn from sin. He even set boundaries with those who are unrepentant. So why aren't we?   And I think that starts to become this Christian badge of honor, like we're somehow martyrs that we keep tolerating this abuse all in the name of love instead of setting boundaries. Because the truth is, at the end of the day, if I can be perfectly honest here, a lot of times it's not about us being loving, it's about us being afraid. Us being afraid to set those boundaries, afraid of their reaction, afraid of confrontation.   It's not about love. So yes, we can fully forgive and still create distance. But now we have to deal with the fallout of what that distance creates.   And that's stuff that if we turn our focus to Jesus, he begins to do in us. It's glorious if you actually allow it to unfold.   Laura Dugger: (21:56 - 22:24) Wow. And you've seen firsthand, I'm sure, so many miracles take place. But then you've said last time you're a practical gal.   So, as a believer, let's say if someone is in a relationship with a narcissist, that that's their parent or their spouse and they're unrepentant and it's been awful. Is there a way that as Christians they can cut off the relationship without disobeying God?   Kris Reece: (22:26 - 27:24) Absolutely. So, title is not going to trump toxicity. So, when the narcissist is a parent or a spouse, the answer isn't going to always be to just walk away.   It's to walk wisely. Because freedom doesn't always mean I got to say goodbye. It means I'm no longer being controlled by you.   And sometimes that's going to require distance or maybe even no contact for a season. Other times it just means a little bit more of an emotional detachment. And I don't mean that in a way that somebody might interpret as like I'm just going to now be cold to you.   But what I mean is that emotional detachment is that my identity, my worth is not wrapped up in your opinion of me. It's not wrapped up in your words. So, I have to have that emotional detachment so I can walk boldly in my purpose, in my identity.   And I can clearly set boundaries within the relationship. So, either way we have to look at this as the goal isn't revenge. The goal is not punishment.   It's peace. It's clarity. It's stewardship.   And that's where a lot of people get tossed up because we think, oh, you know, this is my spouse. This is my mother. And, okay, let's kind of separate those a little bit because the spousal relationship is the only covenantal relationship.   So, if your spouse has some narcissistic traits, meaning they're a little bit manipulative, they lie sometimes, they gaslight you, all that stuff, is that grounds for divorce? Unfortunately, no, no. You know, when it starts to venture into abuse, should we be getting away?   Yes. Every situation is going to be different to somebody listening right now that's going to bring tremendous relief to someone else. They're going to be very angry that I just said that because they want that way out.   But if God is not releasing you right now, I promise you it's because He's looking to do a work in you. And He's allowing this to stay right now. But, again, that is not an excuse to tolerate abuse.   But we also have to be careful what we call abuse. You don't make my breakfast the way I like and then you laugh at me. That's not abuse.   That's just a kind of faulty character. So, we really have to be careful as to what we label abuse. I know we're kind of getting down a little bit of a rabbit trail here.   But I know this is a very sensitive topic for most because some will say, no, the only biblical release for marriage is infidelity. And others will recognize that God does give concession for abuse. He's not calling you to stay in an abusive situation.   But we need to be careful what we do call abuse. So, walking away from the spouse is not as easy as walking away from a parent. You know, a parent, it's a little bit easier, but we still want to be able to guard our heart and understanding, am I walking away because I'm punishing you, because I don't want to deal with you, because I can't stand you, or dare I even say there's hatred on my heart for you.   That we really have to do a self-check. But if we're walking away because we have to start protecting our peace and start stewarding everything God's given to us, whether that's our peace, our heart, our purpose, then that's biblical. Because I think it's more society tells us, no, no, no, we need to do what our parents say.   No, no, no, we need to live next door to our parents. No, no, no, we're not allowed to detach from them. Well, that's not what the Bible says.   You know, I look back over the Bible, and I'm just like, there are so many stories of people who, you know, kind of left their parents behind, whether for whatever reasons. Let's just say they journeyed on, and they never saw them again. You know, it wasn't like I have to live right next door to you.   But a lot of these parents will put their own rules in these relationships. And if you don't comply, well, now somehow the adult child is the problem. So again, sorry, I'm going down a few rabbit trails.   But this is a very passionate topic of mine, because there's so many nuances to it. And I wish I could just say that it's so easy as saying, just walk away. You know, you go to a lot of online resources, and they'll say, oh, you're with a narcissist?   Just leave. Just go no contact. It's not that easy, and it's not that biblical.   But sometimes it is. But here's what I do know, is that freedom isn't about always leaving them. It's about no longer losing yourself to them.   Laura Dugger: (27:26 - 28:19) That is good. And I think you've drawn it out clearly, that difference with it's a little bit easier to understand with a parent-child relationship. I'd love to dive into the spousal relationship, because that discernment is really tricky.   And like you said, it's so different from one situation to the next. I think of three other incredible women who have also been guests on the podcast. Because you can do a deep dive and listen to Dr. Diane Langberg, Leslie Vernick, and Stacey Womack, where we do discuss a lot of this. But Kris, I'd really value your opinion, too, to also help with that discernment. In the spousal covenant, how can you identify when there is abuse versus just some of those tendencies that you mentioned?   Kris Reece: (28:20 - 33:06) How do you differentiate? So, there's going to be a spiritual and then a practical approach to it. The first one is spiritual.   You have to be prayerful. Because a lot of, let's just say women in this case, a lot of women who struggle with codependency, they will see abuse where there may just be personality differences. There may be some character flaws.   There may be differences, some behavioral issues. But because she's been so afraid to speak up for so long that she's now internalizing it as I feel abused. So, I had one situation where this woman would constantly call her husband abusive.   So, she would say something like, you know, if you're going to keep talking to me this way, then I think we need to create a little bit of distance between us. And what he meant was, like, I need to go in the next room. Because, you know, you're really reactive here, and I don't like the way you're talking to me.   And she would say, “I'm tired of being abused by you.” And he would ask, “what are you referring to? What do you mean by abusive?”   And she would go off on these generalities. Now, is that to say that a woman like that isn't abused just because she can't put language to it? No, that's not true.   But we also have to be careful. Has our upbringing trained us to see abuse where there isn't? So, I just want to put that as a caveat.   That's not always the case. And a lot of the counselors that I've been friends with and I connect with, don't experience that a lot. For some reason, that's a lot of the women that God has sent to me.   I don't know why. I don't know why. But a lot of the ones that are interpreting abuse or exaggerating abuse, I should say, where it isn't as abusive as they're saying it is.   I need to step back a little bit because this is probably angering somebody right now. They're like, no, I'm being abused. I have no doubt.   I have no doubt about that. But there are going to be some, some of us, who will interpret abuse the wrong way. So, I need you to be very, very prayerful and careful with how we use that word because I personally think the word abuse is even more abused than the word narcissist because it's very convenient.   Unless I've got physical scars, unless I hear somebody's spouse constantly yelling at you and berating you, I can't quantify that. I can't see it. I don't know.   But I do know that there is something that's taking place within you and something that's definitely taking place within the dynamic. So now let's take a big giant step back. How do I know that this is abusive?   Somebody is constantly invalidating you, meaning they are questioning your motives. They are accusing you of things that you're not doing. They are taking away your support.   They are making themselves your lifeline, meaning they're kind of isolating you. They're saying unkind and untrue words. They are unrepentant, unrepentant people.   These people are abusive because they're going to look to constantly justify their behavior. If you can't have a healthy, open dialogue with somebody who, when they make mistakes, maybe they'll come back and repent later, then you are likely in more of an abusive situation than you are a healthy dynamic. And don't get me wrong.   We've all got our dysfunctions. I even had a conversation with my husband just yesterday. And he said to me, he's like, honey, are you sure that's the most healthy way to be interacting right now?   And I didn't even realize that I had fallen back into an old pattern. It was temporary, but we're able to call each other out on certain things. When you don't have that kind of healthy dynamic where you can now both be accountable to each other, one has the power in the relationship, it's likely abusive.   Laura Dugger: (33:06 - 34:26) By now, I hope you've checked out our updated website, thesavvysauce.com, so that you can have access to all the additional freebies we are offering, including all of our previous articles and all of our previous episodes, which now include transcriptions. You will be equipped to have your own practical chats for intentional living when you read all the recommended questions in the articles or gain insight from expert guests and past episodes as you read through the transcriptions. Because many people have shared with us that they want to take notes on previous episodes, or maybe their spouse prefers to read our conversations rather than listen to them.   We heard all of that and we now have provided transcripts for all our episodes. Just visit thesavvysauce.com. All of this is conveniently located under the tab show notes on our website. Happy reading!   You articulate things so well, Kris, and there's a million more questions I could ask you, but I want to respect your time. So, I know that there's places we can go after this conversation to just continue learning from you.   So, can you share where we could head after this chat?   Kris Reece: (34:27 - 34:40) Absolutely. Well, I'd love it if you would head on over to the website. That is krisreece.com.   It's Kris with a K, Reece with a C. There you'll find a whole bunch of resources, free downloads. My new book is there.   So that would be the best place to go.   Laura Dugger: (34:41 - 34:58) Wonderful. We'll link to that again in the show notes for today's episode. And as you remember from last time, we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, it's my final question for you today, Kris. What is your savvy sauce?   Kris Reece: (34:59 - 41:20) Absolutely. So, my Savvy Sauce is learning to trade people's expectations for God's direction. Because peace always follows purpose.   You know, for so long I thought success, even spiritual success, meant being busy, being available, being constantly on. And honestly, if I can dare confess, fixing people. But the truth is that burnout's not holy.   Productivity isn't purpose. And before now, before I say yes to anything, I ask this one question. Is this an assignment from God, an expectation from people, or a diversion from the devil?   And that single filter has brought so much clarity and peace into my life. And I know we're running low on time, but there's something that's really touching on my heart. May I speak to it?   Please. Because, you know, a lot of times we don't, as people who have been in toxic relationships, we have no filters anymore. We just allow everything that they're bringing in to just invade our soul.   We don't have any external filters. We don't filter our mouth. We don't filter our mind.   We don't filter anything. And we don't stop and ask, wait a minute, hold on a second. Is this coming from God?   And this is why it's not so easy to say, hey, you know, that toxic relationship with your mother, just leave. Just go no contact. Move five states away.   Or no, you need to honor and obey. You need to just stay put. There is no hard and fast rule.   Now, there is one. We are called to honor, but how we interpret that honor, that needs to be biblical, not according to mom's standards. So instead of just doing away with all filters, I want to be able to put those proper filters in place and saying, is this from God?   So, let's take the relationship, for example. In my previous marriage, I was married to a narcissist. I learned very early on in the marriage that there was a problem.   I had no idea it was narcissism. I didn't even get language for that until years after the divorce. But very early on in the marriage, and I said, okay, Lord, what do you want me to do?   Because everything in my flesh said just run, just run. And he had me stay for nine years. He had me stay.   And I went through so many different phases. But what I recognized is in those nine years, God did an amazing transformative work within me that in hindsight I recognized he couldn't have done, or probably, yeah, he couldn't have done because I would have just moved on. So, I needed to be in that situation to be on my knees.   I needed to be in the midst of it to be in prayer. Because if I just left, that would have been a form of avoidance. So, in that case, it wasn't as easy.   And according to some people, I probably would have had a biblical release to leave. Now, eventually, it was an obvious biblical release. I mean, there was no doubt I was free to leave this relationship.   And that's when I knew that God had released me. So, we want to be able to examine, okay, God, do you have me in this for a reason? Is it for a reason and a season?   What are you doing inside of this? We make the assumption as people that God would never want me to suffer like this. Is that true?   Because I suffered for nine years, and it brought me to a greater level of faith and a greater level of glory, so that suffering served his purpose. So, the same thing is true for a parent relationship. God could have you in a situation where, no, you don't have a choice to leave.   But that doesn't mean that you don't find freedom from that person, even if you can't leave. And that's why the book is called Breaking the Narcissist's Grip. It's not called Let's Go No Contact because I just want to be able to break that stronghold that you have over me, even if I am still present.   So now there are going to be other times where Satan is now going to send toxic people into your life, and you're going to think that it's your responsibility. Oh, God has put me here. No, Satan hand-delivered them.   And your job is to apply 2 Timothy 3.1. In the last days, there will be people who are lovers of self, proud, arrogant, boastful, and that list goes on. And what does God tell us to do at the end of that scripture? Avoid such people.   So now Satan sends in a diversion, and we decide that we're going to play Holy Spirit, and we're going to be the ones to be Jesus. We're just going to show them Jesus. No, the enemy is successful, slowly trying to destroy you.   And that's where we have to now put that filter on. So, when you go back, this is a very long answer to your savvy sauce. It's I have to be able to trade what people's expectations or even my expectations would be for what God wants in that moment.   Does he want me to stay in this relationship? What is he looking to do in me and through me? Does he want me out of that relationship?   Am I now codependent? Am I trying to stay in this longer than he called me to? And I'm now suffering the consequences of my choices.   So, in summary, I guess you could say when we stop chasing approval and start walking in alignment with what God wants from us, our life gets a whole lot lighter.   Laura Dugger: (41:22 - 41:57) Wow, Kris, I'm so grateful that you shared all of that and unpacked your answer and let us in on a glimpse of your story. Thank you for walking faithfully through that. And then for modeling that it's it wasn't a black and white answer, but at one time he had you stay and one time he set you free to go.   And I just really appreciate all that you've shared with us. You have an uncanny gift of speaking truth and love. So grateful for you.   Kris Reece: (41:58 - 42:01) Thank you. I greatly appreciate that. Thank you, Laura.   Laura Dugger: (42:03 - 45:44) One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.   This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.   Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.   And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.   First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.   You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.   We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

The Queen of Sheba is a holy figure to some; a demon in disguise to others. Her indelible presence has haunted religious scholars and fuelled nationalist visions in East Africa and Southern Arabia. IDEAS explores the many afterlives of the Queen of Sheba — and how ideas about gender and power have shifted in each retelling of her life.Guest in this episode:Shahla Haeri is a professor of anthropology and a former director of the Women's Studies Program at Boston University, and one of the pioneers of Iranian anthropology. Her books include Law of Desire: Temporary Marriage in Shi'i Iran, No Shame for the Sun: Lives of Professional Pakistani Women and The Unforgettable Queens of Islam: Succession, Authority, Gender.Jillian Stinchcomb is a director's visitor at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey working as a postdoctoral fellow in the "Interactive Histories, Co-Produced Communities: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam" project. In 2020, she defended her dissertation, "Remembering the Queen of Sheba in the First Millennium," a reception history of the Queen of Sheba across Jewish, Muslim, and Christian texts from the biblical to the early medieval period. She works with material in Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Greek, Latin, and Ge'ez.Safia Aidid is an interdisciplinary historian of modern Africa and an assistant professor at the University of Toronto. Her research addresses anticolonial nationalism, territorial imaginations, borders, and state formation in the Horn of Africa, with a particular focus on modern Somalia and Ethiopia.Eyob Derillo is a reference specialist in the Reading Room of Africa and Asian Studies at the British Library, and previously served as curator for the library's Ethiopic and Ethiopian Collections. He is a Ph.D. student at the School of Oriental and African Studies, focusing on the history of Ethiopian magic.Yousra Ishaq is a director and producer in Yemen, facilitating local productions and coordinating multinational teams including international media outlets such as the BBC and PBS. In 2017, she co-founded the Yemen-based film foundation and production company, Comra Films.