Podcasts about thousand faces the collected works

In this episode of the MindHack Podcast, we sit down with Ben "Doc" Askins, a former combat medic turned psychiatric physician assistant, who brings a wealth of experience in trauma therapy and unconventional healing. With nearly two decades in military medicine and a specialization in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, Ben challenges the traditional Hero's Journey narrative and instead explores the path of the Anti-Hero—a journey that delves into the raw, real, and often messy truths of self-discovery. Through his unique insights, Ben shares how confronting trauma and embracing empathy are essential for true healing.This conversation is for anyone grappling with their own inner battles or seeking to make peace with past traumas. Together, we uncover practical steps to break free from self-deception, build meaningful connections, and find empathy not only for others but also for ourselves. Join us as we unpack a new approach to healing—one that is unfiltered, authentic, and ultimately empowering. ℹ️ About this Guest Ben "Doc" Askins is a former combat medic and psychiatric physician assistant with nearly two decades of experience in trauma care and therapy. Certified in MDMA-assisted psychotherapy by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), Ben blends traditional medicine with innovative approaches to healing. As the author of Anti-Hero's Journey: The Zero With a Thousand Faces, he challenges conventional narratives of growth, offering raw insights on trauma, empathy, and self-discovery. Through his work, Ben inspires others to confront their struggles and embrace authentic transformation.WebsiteClinical WebsiteFacebook PageYouTubeTwitterInstagramListen on Apple PodcastListen on SpotifyDownload as an MP3 - https://bit.ly/3B3UXKnAnti-Hero's Journey: The Zero With a Thousand Faces: A Warped War Memoir on the Way to Enlightenment By Ben "Doc" Askins 

Although evolution and change have been the leading force on earth since the beginning of times, some millennial stories, myths, and metaphors stand out for their longevity and relevance. Some of them went through slight modifications to land better in present times, but all maintained their core message. In this episode, I'm joined by my wife Paige to discuss the metaphors in Disney movies; we analyze their long-lasting nature and their power to teach us about ourselves and the world around us. We delve into the possibilities of rewriting our hero's journey by reflecting on myths and metaphors, the vast amount of wisdom in them despite their simplicity and their massive staying power. We also talk about Disney stories' influence on social roles and social constructs, the impact of feminine and masculine energy on them, and the powerful trait of playing, suspending disbelief. In This Episode, You Will Learn:What is it that Disney stories have that makes them stick around for so long (2:16)About the collective and individual experiences in the world (4:46)The value of play and its capacity to suspend disbelief (6:56)About the staying power of myths and metaphors (10:16)Using metaphors as principles (18:02)Feminine and masculine energy, and a world existing between their extremes (19:43)Resources:Book: Joseph Campbell - The Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of JosephBook: Anne Miller - Metaphorically Selling: How to Use the Magic of Metaphors to Sell, Persuade, & Explain Anything to Anyone See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

“The Connecting Power of Storytelling” with Fouad Lakbir Can telling stories unite different groups of people and what impact can opening up and sharing personal experiences with others make? Fouad Lakbir, the guest of the episode, is a passionate storyteller, storytelling coach, and initiator of many community projects, like the Cultural Centre MAQAM in Amsterdam (The Netherlands). In this “gem”, Fouad shares how storytelling has helped him open up, learn to accept differences, and how he uses the power of stories to work with diverse communities creating a safe environment for groups and individuals to open up. LINKS AND RESOURCES Gems of Youth Work: https://shokkin.org/gems-of-youth-work/ Reading suggestion: The Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell) About MAQAM: https://www.foam.org/about/collaborative-projects/maqam

Die Heldenreise ist eine der bekanntesten Story-Strukturen. Doch heute spricht Heino mit Katrin über die Heldinnenreise. Die Heldinnenreise - die schon seit der Antike existiert - ist aus einem langen, langen Schlaf geweckt worden und steht uns Autor:innen wieder zur Verfügung. Und richtig - ganz viele Autor:innen bedienen sich dieser Struktur schon längst. Literatur zum Thema Der Heros in tausend Gestalten von Joseph CampbellHero with a Thousand Faces: The Collected Works of Joseph CampbellDie Odyssee der Drehbuchschreiber, Romanautoren und Dramatiker: Mythologische Grundmuster für Schriftsteller von Christopher VoglerThe Writer's Journey - 25th Anniversary Edition: Mythic Structure for Writer Christopher VoglerThe Heroin's Story: For writers, readers and fans of Pop Culture von Gail GarrigerÜber Katrin Katrin Bongard ist Künstlerin, Drehbuchautorin und Autorin. Sie hat über fünfzehn Bücher in großen deutschen Verlagen veröffentlicht und etwa ebenso viel in unter ihrem eigenen Label Red Bug Books. Sie ist Agentin in der Red Bug Agency und kennt sich im Filmgeschäft genauso gut aus wie im Verlagsgeschäft. Die Heldenreise war für sie lange die einzig wahre Drehbuchstruktur, bis sie anfing Bücher zu schreiben und sich mit neuen Erzählweisen zu beschäftigen. Sie bloggt auf ihrem eigenen Blog unter anderem über das Schreiben und gibt Schreibtipps auf dem Red Bug Culture Blog. Mehr Insides: Katrins Website Katrins Beiträge auf Red Bug Culture Katrin auf Instagram & Facebook

Kary Oberbrunner shares expert strategies for bringing your attention back to what matters most. — YOU'LL LEARN — 1) The wrong and right ways of dealing with task overload 2) The three components of deliberate magnetic focus 3) The two triggers of flow state Subscribe or visit AwesomeAtYourJob.com/ep638 for clickable versions of the links below. — ABOUT KARY — Kary Oberbrunner is CEO of Igniting Souls. Through his writing, speaking, and coaching, he helps individuals and organizations clarify who they are, why they're here, and where they should invest their time and energy. Kary struggled to find his own distinct voice and passion. As a young man, he suffered from severe stuttering, depression, and self-injury. Today a transformed man, Kary equips people to experience Unhackability in work and life and share their message with the world. He believes the most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire. His vision is to ignite 100 million souls by 2030. Kary lives in Ohio with his wife, Kelly, and three children: Keegan, Isabel, and Addison. • Kary's book: Day Job to Dream Job: Practical Steps for Turning Your Passion into a Full-Time Gig • Kary's book: Elixir Project • Kary's book: Unhackable: The Elixir for Creating Flawless Ideas, Leveraging Superhuman Focus, and Achieving Optimal Human Performance • Kary's website: UnhackableBook.com — RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW — • Article: “Putting a Finger on Our Phone Obsession” • Book: The Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell) by Joseph Campbell • Book: The Psychology of Money: Timeless lessons on wealth, greed, and happiness by Morgan Housel — THANK YOU SPONSORS! — • Canva. Design like a pro–for less time and money at canva.me/awesomeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Story Grid Showrunners Podcast, dedicated to helping writers master their genre.  If you’re writing a book and you want to make it stand out, we can help you.  How? We’ll be watching and analyzing hit TV series using the Story Grid and will help you apply what we’ve learned to your own writing. Why the Story Grid? There are many templates and schools of thought that can help you self-edit your book. The Story Grid takes many of these concepts, for example, Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey or Kim Hudson’s Virgin’s Promise or Save the cat! Writes a Novel, and allows you to understand why your novel isn’t working. So what does the Story Grid have to do with TV series?  In the Story Grid Universe, we believe that you can learn from masterworks. At www.storygrid.com you can find resources showing how and why Silence of the Lambs is a classic thriller, and why Pride & Prejudice is still a celebrated love story even though it was published over 150 years ago. If you want to see films analyzed, go to the Story Grid Editors Roundtable. We love those guys, and they do an awesome job showing how films work. We are three Story Grid Editors - Parul, Mel, and Randall - and we met while studying under Editor Shawn Coyne. In an ugly business hotel in the wonderful city of Nashville, Tennessee we bonded as we studied together; we analyzed novels, films, songs together. We’re part of a select group of Story Grid geeks who help writers write better stories using the story grid methodology. When we work with writers we often find ourselves asking them to look up kick-ass TV series. So, for example, if you’re writing a thriller, I might ask you to take a look at the subversive Villanelle in Killing Eve, In this podcast, we’ll create shortcuts for you.  Each season we will select a TV series and help you understand why it works, episode by episode and overall. We’ll look at the characters and why they’re memorable or not.  If you're writing a novel, screenplay or TV series, our show will help you look at storytelling from an editor's perspective.  We’ll keep our analysis to around 20 to 30 minutes long, so you can pop the kettle on, and get yourself a cup of tea, and join us.  Are there any shows you would like to have analyzed? Drop us a line. References:www.sgshowrunners.comwww.storygrid.com Editor Webpages:Melanie: Parul: Randall: www.randysurles.com Podcasts: Story Grid PodcastStory Grid Roundtable Podcast Books:The Story Grid by Shawn CoyneSave the Cat! Writes a Novel: The Last Book on Novel Writing You’ll Ever Need by Jessica BrodyThe Virgin’s Promise: Writing Stories of Feminine Creative, Spiritual, and Sexual Awakening by Kim Hudson and Christopher VoglerThe Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell) by Joseph CampbellThe Writer’s Journey: Mythic Structure for Writers by Christopher VoglerThe Silence of the Lambs by Thomas HarrisPride and Prejudice by Jane Austin - the Story Grid Edition 

Natali Morris is a former network news anchor turned personal finance educator and motivator. Her specialties include personal finance, business, and technology. She is currently a contributor to CNBC and MSNBC where she was previously an anchor, a role she also filled prior to that at CBS Interactive. Her experience includes being a contributor to CBS News and the TODAY show, along with CNN, ABC News, G4TV (a former US digital cable and satellite TV channel), BBC, The CW, Fox News, Fox Business News, and Univision (Spanish-language reporting). She has written for Consumer Reports, WIRED, Variety magazine, MarketWatch, TechCrunch, The San Francisco Examiner, PC Magazine, ELLEgirl (now defunct), the Oakland Tribune (now the East Bay Times), and more. She has a bachelor’s degree in journalism from California State University East Bay, and a master’s degree in sociology from the University of Southern California. Prior to 2010, you may have seen her work under her maiden name, Natali Del Conte. Natali is from the San Francisco Bay Area. She lives and works with her husband Clayton and their three small children. Her sole focus is to not screw them up.   “I don’t want focus all the time on shrinking my life, because that’s what I’m worth, I want us, all of us to expand our lives.” Natali Morris   Andrew’s question about learning finance “When you first looked at the idea of learning finance, or learning investing for yourself … how did you feel about what you were faced with?” Natali’s response “If you look at your finances, how to get them in order and how to then save and invest, as a whole, it’s too much … I started reading these books about how many fees are in your funds, and your IRA and your 401k, and I got myself all worked up and pissed off. And then I was like, well, where do I put them? … So … that wasn’t getting me anywhere until I decided: ‘Okay, take one thing, learn that one thing and that teaches you the language of finance to go to the next’.”   Andrew’s points on learning Learn one book or take one step at a time Someone once asked Andrew: “How many books have you read?” The answer was: “Thousands!” The query continued: “How did you read so many books? Andrew answered: “I read them one at a time.” In reference to Natali’s “learn one thing at a time” strategy, Andrew agrees, saying: “Take one small step at a time.” Mother set example for family financial planning Andrew’s mother was very much involved in his household’s financial decisions and money management. His mother and father worked together for years to build financial security, so that they lived a period of 20 years retirement without financial trouble. When Andrew’s father passed away, his mother moved to Thailand with him and she is still financially independent. Cutting costs has a limit, growing wealth has few You can never get to true success in business, investing or in building wealth by cutting costs. There is a limit to cutting costs, so the other part has to answer the question: “How do we grow?”   Worst investment ever FBI probe of investment dare not speak its name Natali had some trouble choosing her worst, as she’s had so many challenges. One story she can’t really talk about because it is the subject of an active FBI investigation into some funds that were in her IRA. This investment was particularly heartbreaking because she had her children’s investments tied up in that situation, as well hers and her husband’s. Another situation also involved trust Natali and her husband Clayton (a previous guest on this podcast) got into business with someone during the past five years. They were helping other people invest in off-market properties. Their partner was a fiduciary (a fiduciary relationship is formed between two parties who trust each other. In real estate, a fiduciary relationship is created between a real estate agent, known as the fiduciary, and a buyer or a seller, known as the principal) who was selling all the houses and Natali and Clayton we were getting referrals on any investors that went through him. Towards the end of their relationship, they realized that a lot of the rehabs he had said he had carried out, had not been done or were incomplete. And so that really ended up exposing them to a lot more liability than they had planned for.   General lessons It’s very hard to save your way to wealth In fact, Natali says it’s almost impossible. She found that a very difficult change in her thinking. But change she did, and now she tells her clients and students that if she could achieve that shift, then other people can do it too.   Andrew’s takeaways Collated from this My Worst Investment Ever series, the six main categories of mistakes made by interviewees, from the most common, are:    Failed to do their own research Failed to properly assess and manage risk Were driven by emotion or flawed thinking Misplaced trust Failed to monitor their investment Invested in a start-up company Mistake No. 4 is Misplaced Trust Andrew goes on to ask Natali about the signs so that listeners are not sucked into a similar difficult situation. Natali’s lessons on trust delve into the spiritual Natali and Clayton explored why this had happened, looked back through their communications, and how they formed the relationship and they found it very hard to pin down how they could have known, so Natali calls this more of a “soul challenge” than a practical challenge, because she and her husband were unable to determine how they could have averted the results of this fiduciary partner’s misrepresentation. Need for healing other than legal, practical redress Natali and her husband actually teach people to take charge, run their numbers, research risks, understand who they are dealing with and do their due diligence. They had done all that. So after a few occasions of misplaced trust, she started to seek healing. The lessons she learned came from a spiritual perspective, and that somehow, they had been led toward all of the steps that she needed to protect herself before this happened. Higher power hints to put protections in place She had been working closely with state lawyers to make sure they had a domestic asset protection trust, and another instrument close to an offshore trust that is available under US law. She had educated herself and established those trusts before she and Clayton had had any problems. She had educated herself on different insurance plans and decided to open a captive insurance plan, a kind of advanced investor tool. She was prepared and she realized that a lot of times when a “big soul challenge” is coming, you have been prepared in ways by which you were not fully aware. Then when it hits, you realize why you needed to be so prepared. She says, some kind of spiritual guidance or guardian angel or higher power is putting in front of you the people you’re going to need, the books, the podcasts, and the information to guide you along your path. If you pick them up, you will be more prepared for the soul challenge when it comes. What if she hadn't been so ready? Natali often wonders what would have happened if she had failed to pick up the tools she had found before her? If she had just stepped over them before the soul challenge arrived, she would be injured much worse. She would have been saying: “I could have read that book. I should have called that person, I could have hired that estate lawyer.” Natali Morris   Andrew on spiritual preparation Right path is usually not so hard Some people say that they’re searching for God’s will on a matter. Others could say: “It’s just the right path for me to travel in life.” Andrew argues that the right path is usually not too difficult. If you find yourself getting in too much difficulty, it is probably a good idea to step back. When you think about spiritual preparation, look for a path. It’s not necessarily the easiest path, but it makes sense, and it feels right. Listen to your intuition When something feels wrong, pay attention, bring it up and put it right on your desk in front of you.   “You get into this scary time … you’re in … the belly of the whale … and you’re like, ‘how did I get here?’, I don’t know what the journey is and you have help along the way and somehow you come out of it a different person, and it shows you what you’re made of and what you’re supposed to learn from it.” Natali Morris   Actionable advice Look for the next book Natali recommends letting the next book or message fall in front of you and then read it, follow the intuitions or “wisps” or whatever is trying to guide. “Every moment gives you an opportunity to see and ask ‘Is this preparing me for something that I need to know?’ Let me give it some real thought.” Read A Hero with 1,000 Faces and you will realize all mythology has a story to teach us about how we are being prepared for our own hero’s journey. Natali is still involved in many painful situations, but she may not come out of them a hero, but that doesn’t mean she will quit. She’s learned a lot about herself, especially during 2018, when she had her husband went through difficult times. But now, she is stronger, not afraid of money, not afraid of investments, and willing to take on a seller finance deal and talk to a lender. A lot stronger than the “little housewife” she was trying to avoid being. Andrew’s value-added comment You’re stronger than you think. When you face difficult challenges out there, the reality is that you can make it through.   No. 1 goal for next the 12 months Natali wants to find a way to put the benefits of her and her husband’s Financial Freedom Academy in the hands of the people that need it the most, so that whatever soul challenges that have to do with money in their lives, they are not afraid. To listeners: Anyone who is facing the results of their worst investment, “this is just their opportunity to slay the dragons”.   Parting words “I appreciate you being empathetic and letting me talk.”     You can also check out Andrew’s books How to Start Building Your Wealth Investing in the Stock Market My Worst Investment Ever 9 Valuation Mistakes and How to Avoid Them Transform Your Business with Dr. Deming’s 14 Points  Connect with Natali Morris LinkedIn Twitter Facebook Personal website Business website Blog Email Connect with Andrew Stotz astotz.com  LinkedIn Facebook  Instagram Twitter  YouTube My Worst Investment Ever Podcast Further reading mentioned Natali and Clayton Morris (2018) How To Pay Off Your Mortgage In Five Years: Slash your mortgage with a proven system the banks don’t want you to know about Joseph Campbell (1949) The Hero With a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell)  

Shownotes This week the Min/Max Podcast is sponsored by Thy Geekdom ComeThe Hero with A Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell)Connect, subscribe, and follow us on the following platforms!Min-Max Hotline 773-789-9369Min/Max Patreonwww.minmaxpod.comTwitterInstagramFacebookStitcheriTunesGoogle Play PodcastsFeedBurnerCastBoxSpotifyRadio PublicTune-In RadioPinecast Podcast Hosting:(Get 4 months cheaper: r-6a94a2)EmailIntro music by RoccoW is licensed under a Attribution-ShareAlike License. Modification: Clipped down to make Intro and Outro Bumpers.This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-6a94a2 for 40% off for 4 months, and support Min-Max Podcast.

We've all heard, do the work you love, the money will follow. But do you believe it? Do you really believe it? Even if you run your own business are you doing what it takes to flourish and get paid? Or do you hold back your true talents because deep down you think there's NO WAY you could make money doing what you love? Craig Tennant will help you get out of the rat race and make more than enough money doing what you really love. About Craig Tennant Craig Tennant is passionate about training and supporting successful professionals to get out of the rat race and to make more than enough money doing what they REALLY love. He worked in the corporate world consulting for Finance and Technology executives for over 3 decades and has trained and supported thousands of individuals and over 75 groups to connect with their purpose. Today Craig brings his passion and experience to help people connect with and bring their biggest vision to reality. Engaging Breakthroughs: https://www.engagingbreakthroughs.com/ People and Things We Mention Digital Distractions eBook: https://www.jenmcfarland.com/ebooks/ Office Space: Case of the Mondays: https://youtu.be/uiik3zS4y4I "I say, follow your bliss and don’t be afraid, and doors will open where you didn’t know they were going to be." - Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell) (https://amzn.to/2Cmxvqd) "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." - Henry David Thoreau, Walden (https://amzn.to/2O6EjwR) Vulnerability TED Talk, Brene Brown, "The Power of Vulnerability": https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability

Welcome back to a special edition of The Writer Files called “The Best of the Writer s Brain,” a series neuroscientist Michael Grybko and I started in 2015 where I enlisted his help to give us a tour of the inner workings of the writer’s process. Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You By   Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting. Start getting more from your site today! Q: Have you ever wondered why storytelling is such an omnipresent theme of human life? As we take a short Summer hiatus to book new guests for the upcoming season, I thought I d put all of these enlightening episodes in one place … In Part Three of the series I invited my friend, research scientist Michael Grybko — of the Department of Psychology at the University of Washington — back on the show to help me define storytelling from a scientific standpoint. If you missed the first two episodes of The Best of ‘The Writer s Brain’ you can find them on writerfiles.fm, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. In this file Michael Grybko and I discuss: Why storytelling is the default mode of human communication How empathy makes storytelling such an effective tool Why Hollywood continually taps into ‘The Hero’s Journey’ How blueprints can help writers connect with their audience Why reading fiction makes us more empathetic Writers’ addiction to stories (especially the dark ones) Where humanity would be without storytelling The Show Notes: The Best of ‘The Writer’s Brain’ Part Two: Empathy The Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell) Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting by Robert McKee “Reading literary fiction improves empathy, study finds” from The Guardian The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human by Jonathan Gottschall Kelton Reid on Twitter

If you have seen Star Wars then you know Joseph Campbell's work. If you ever have seen The Lion King then you have seen one of Campbell's best student's, Chris Vogler, work.Chris Vogler wrote the game changing book  The Writers Journey: Mythic Structure for Writers. I read this book over 20 years ago and it changed the way I look at story. Chris studied the work and principles of the late master Joseph Campbell. His book The Hero with a Thousand Faces was the bases for Star Wars as well as almost every other Hollywood feature film in the past 60 years. What Chris Vogler did so well is that he translated Campbell's work and applied it to movies. The Writer's Journey explores the powerful relationship between mythology and storytelling in a clear, concise style that's made it required reading for movie executives, screenwriters, playwrights, scholars, and fans of pop culture all over the world. He has influenced the screenplays of movies from THE LION KING to FIGHT CLUB to BLACK SWAN to NOAH."I teach sometimes, and always say that Chris Vogler is the first book that everyone's got to read." -- Darren Aronofsky , Oscar-nominated Screenwriter/Director, Noah, Black Swan, The WrestlePretty high praised from one of the best filmmakers working today. In this episode I ask Chris to breakdown a bunch of concepts of the Hero's Journey, why it resinates with people around the world and what makes an amazing hero and villain. Enjoy my conversation with Chris Vogler.Screenwriting & Story Blueprint: The Hero's Two JourneysThe Writers Journey: Mythic Structure for Writers, 3rd EditionMyth & the Movies: Discovering the Myth Structure of 50 Unforgettable FilmsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell)Memo from the Story Department: Secrets of Structure and CharacterThe Million Dollar Screenplay

Have you ever wondered why storytelling is such an omnipresent theme of human life? Welcome to another guest segment of “The Writer s Brain” where I pick the brain of a neuroscientist about elements of great writing.   Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You By   Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting. Start getting more from your site today! Research scientist Michael Grybko — of the Department of Psychology at the University of Washington — returned to the podcast to help me define storytelling from a scientific standpoint. If you missed the first two installments of The Writer s Brain — on How Neuroscience Defines both Creativity and Empathy — you can find them in the show notes as well as on writerfiles.fm and iTunes. In this file Michael Grybko and I discuss: Why Storytelling is the Default Mode of Human Communication How Empathy Makes Storytelling Such an Effective Tool Why Hollywood Continually Taps into ‘The Hero’s Journey’ How Blueprints Help Writers Connect with Their Audience Why Reading Fiction Makes Us More Empathetic Writers’ Addiction to Stories (Especially the Dark Ones) Where Humanity Would Be Without Storytelling Listen to The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience below ... Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes The Show Notes How Neuroscientist Michael Grybko Defines Creativity How Neuroscientist Michael Grybko Defines Empathy The Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell) Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting by Robert McKee “Reading literary fiction improves empathy, study finds” from The Guardian The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human by Jonathan Gottschall Kelton Reid on Twitter The Transcript How Neuroscientist Michael Grybko Defines Storytelling Voiceover: This is Rainmaker.FM, the digital marketing podcast network. It’s built on the Rainmaker Platform, which empowers you to build your own digital marketing and sales platform. Start your free 14-day trial at RainmakerPlatform.com. Kelton Reid: These are The Writer Files, a tour of the habits, habitats, and brains of working writers, from online content creators to fictionists, journalists, entrepreneurs, and beyond. I’m your host, Kelton Reid: writer, podcaster, and mediaphile. Each week, we’ll find out how great writers keep the ink flowing, the cursor moving, and avoid writer s block. Have you ever wondered why storytelling is such an omnipresent theme of human life? Welcome to another guest segment of The Writer’s Brain, where I pick the brain of a neuroscientist about elements of great writing. Research scientist Michael Grybko of the Department of Psychology at the University of Washington returned to the podcast to help me define storytelling from a scientific standpoint. If you missed the first two installments of The Writer’s Brain on how neuroscience defines both creativity and empathy, you can find them in the show notes as well as at WriterFiles.FM and iTunes. In this episode, we’ll discuss why storytelling is the default mode of human communication, how empathy makes storytelling such an effective tool, why Hollywood continually taps into the hero’s journey, how blueprints help writers connect with their audience, why reading fiction makes us more empathetic, the writer’s addiction to stories — especially the dark ones, and where humanity would be without storytelling. If you enjoy The Writer Files podcast, please subscribe to the show, and leave us a rating or a review in iTunes to help other writers find us. Thanks for listening. Michael Grybko, welcome back to The Writer Files. Michael Grybko: Hello, Kelton. Thanks for having me back. Kelton Reid: We’re back with a segment that we call The Writer’s Brain, and I think we’ve been building up to this episode. It s the third part of, I guess we could say, a multi-part series. We’ve talked about how neuroscience looks at creativity, right? Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: That’s an important building block, and then we have talked about how you look at empathy, and the importance of both of those in good writing. Michael Grybko: Right. Why Storytelling Is the Default Mode of Human Communication Kelton Reid: Here we are, and I think this is the piece that we’ve both been kind of itching to talk about. Michael Grybko: Right, we’ve been building up to this. Kelton Reid: Yeah, how neuroscience looks at storytelling. This is cool stuff. Anyway, let’s get into it. We know what storytelling is. We are constantly telling each other stories and ourselves stories, but why do human beings tell stories? Why is that the default mode of our civilization or our communication at this point? Michael Grybko: Right, yeah, it’s a big question. There’s a lot going on there, and it’s really pretty fascinating. In anticipation of this, I’ve been thinking about it for a while, and obviously there’s something there, you know? Storytelling has been going on for a long, long time. There’s evidence of it in I don’t know how many — I don’t want to say every culture — but many cultures have some form of storytelling, and it goes back pretty much as far as we can see. Kelton Reid: Sure. Twenty thousand years or so? Michael Grybko: Yeah. Maybe longer, you know. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: The record is just so good and well-kept. We can’t say for sure how long it’s been going on. Kelton Reid: Forever. Michael Grybko: It seems like a part of humanity, part of what makes us human. That’s the first interesting question: if it’s been going on this long, carried on, and you see the rise in different cultures, possibly independently, why? There’s got to be a reason for it. One of the main things, I think, is that storytelling has proven an effective means of delivering information. When I think of storytelling now and the purpose of storytelling, it seems to span this spectrum to me, where you have really didactic storytelling — a story that has a lot of moral meaning, or some lesson to be learned at the end — to storytelling that’s more pleasurable, that we just do for enjoyment. Kelton Reid: Escapism. Michael Grybko: Yeah, yeah. And so I think the important part is the didactic point, and I think that’s what’s carried it along this long. It s an effective way to deliver information. The question is why? Why is it better tell a story than to spew out facts or tell someone straight-up what’s going on? Kelton Reid: Yeah. How Empathy Makes Storytelling Such an Effective Tool Michael Grybko: This is why I think our previous conversations are a good segue into this about creativity, and empathy. It’s empathy, I think, which is why storytelling is such an effective mechanism. Last time, we talked about empathy, and empathy in marketing and why that was important and why it’s important to have this emotional response in the audience. Basically — I don’t want to rehash the whole thing again — information is more memorable when we add weight to it. A great way to add weight is to trigger an emotional response in the viewer. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: A great way to do this is if the viewer is empathizing with the characters in the story. Therefore, if we write a good story, it’s more likely the viewers will empathize with the characters, and then the content of that story will be more memorable. Kelton Reid: Yeah, so we’re giving order to kind of a world of chaos and rote facts or just random streams of information. They’re not writing these pathways that we need to learn without that storytelling element. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: So this is something that has been around forever, because it’s an effective tool for learning. Michael Grybko: Right, and I think it’s because it’s tapping into someone’s emotion, their sense of empathy, and this theory of mind. It keeps our attention better, and then also, by attaching that emotion to it, it makes it more memorable. What’s interesting, we talked about during our empathy conversation, the discovery of mirror systems. These are systems that are active when an individual performs an action or witnesses someone else performing an action. A similar experiment was done with reading. So a group in Washington University in St. Louis, which was led by Jeffery Zacks, did a similar study, again using MRI, which we talked about before, so I won’t go into it too deeply, but it’s a way of inferring brain activity in certain regions by measuring an increase in blood flow. This group, using fMRI, showed that brain areas involved in things like spatial location, goal-directed activity, and object manipulation became active at points in the observer that correlated to aspects of a story that the observer was reading. We see again that there’s evidence that mirroring behavior is triggered when we read a story, just like it would be if we were witnessing an event. It looks like the same thing is happening here. It s where you read a story, and we trigger this empathy, and it s a part of us is living the story. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Our brain is acting as if we were going through the same situations. That’s why storytelling is so powerful and probably why it’s been around for so long. Kelton Reid: This is why Hollywood makes billions and billions of dollars capitalizing on telling and retelling the same stories over and over, because it’s impossible for us to really resist that. Michael Grybko: Yeah, just getting immersed. Kelton Reid: The draw, yeah. Then being whisked away by these mono-myths, so to speak. I know I’ve brought this up before, but in screenwriting, they give you two books when you start studying the art of writing stories for the screen. The first one is Joseph Campbell’s The Hero with a Thousand Faces, where lots of marketers and writers talk about the hero’s journey, and that formula for storytelling. Michael Grybko: It’s a popular one. Kelton Reid: Take any of these great stories — you kind of become the hero when you get truly swept away by a great story. That’s why Disney does so well, and that’s why George Lucas, admittedly, had tapped into Joseph Campbell’s structure for mythology. To come back to storytelling and why it is so effective, or at least why we do it, and how to really do it better, I guess, is where we’re going with this. Michael Grybko: Right, and that’s another thing. Another aspect I thought about storytelling when I was preparing for this is, and you kind of brought it up, is that we’re all telling stories. I think stories actually help the person who is telling the story, and this gets into advice that was given to me and advice I pass on to people now when I’m preparing a scientific presentation. That’s make a story out of it, and it should have a flow. I thought about this as I was preparing for this, for our podcast here on storytelling. Why is that? Why do I give this advice? And I really started thinking about it. As a presenter, it helps us line up our facts. When we get really immersed into a certain topic, and we have to present on that topic, if it’s a data-heavy or fact-heavy topic we have to present, it’s really easy for the presenter to get up there and just start spewing out facts. Kelton Reid: Right. Michael Grybko: This is because the presenter sees the connectedness of all these facts. To the audience, who isn’t as familiar with this information, who doesn’t know all these connections, it can be very confusing if you go up there and just start spewing facts. When I think of a scientific presentation, when I try to line it up as a story, and when I think about making a story out of it, what I’m doing is lining up these facts in a logical way and creating a narrative that helps me present the information with a flow in a logical way to the audience. I think storytelling, also, not only are there these benefits of the audience empathizing and having an emotional response and being more interested in the information being presented, but there’s also the benefit to the storyteller to force that person into making a logical story out of the information they’re presenting. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: It’s not just a jumbled mess, a bunch of facts getting thrown at you. So that’s a benefit of storytelling as well. Kelton Reid: When I think of great storytelling, at least from a scientific standpoint, I think of like these great TED Talks that you’ll stumble upon or discover, that are really great stories being told by charismatic or truly compelling individuals, you know? Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: I’m certain that there are truly intelligent people that can’t do that. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: They can’t get up … Michael Grybko: Yeah, it’s a skill. It s something you have to work at, something that I’ve worked at. Like I said, this is advice I give to graduate students and things now when they’re presenting their talks. It’s a hurdle that a lot of people have to get over. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Why Hollywood Continually Taps into The Hero s Journey Michael Grybko: I like that you brought up TED Talks again, and science, because that’s a theme I’ve seen in a lot of TED Talks. They all seem to be this kind of hero theme, you know? Even the science ones and whatever, it’s some certain molecule, or even that person’s personal quest, but you see that sort of hero conquering. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: It’s still present even in science talks. It follows that format. Kelton Reid: It does, it does. I was going to mention the second screenwriting book really quick that they give you when you walk through the door, is Robert McKee s Story, and McKee basically breaks a great story into five parts. It s inciting incident, progressive complications , a crisis, climax, and resolution. Seriously, when you look at a TED Talk that has a million views … Michael Grybko: I think they all got that book. Kelton Reid: Yeah, you can put that five-part template on top of those and see exactly why they’re so effective. How Blueprints Help Writers Connect with Their Audience Michael Grybko: Yeah, so storytelling, whether it’s some fictitious tale or you’re trying to deliver a fact-burdened story, a fact-burdened message, it has a similar theme, a similar blueprint to the structure of it. Kelton Reid: Yeah, I like that you say blueprint. And so many facets of the different storytelling departments — as in screenwriting, playwriting, TV writing, copywriting — they all use blueprints, at least at the start, for mapping out. Michael Grybko: Sure. Kelton Reid: These blueprints aren’t necessarily designed to help you find original material. That’s up to you. Clearly, each and every audience is going to respond better to a different type of story. Michael Grybko: Yep. Kelton Reid: Those blueprints are helpful starting out. Michael Grybko: Yeah. It s How are you going to arrange the information you’re delivering? That’s what’s important. Why Reading Fiction Makes Us More Empathetic Kelton Reid: Yeah, so let’s talk a little bit more about, does reading fiction make us more empathetic? Does reading, or even watching fictional stories, make us more empathetic? We both read this article in The Guardian. Michael Grybko: Yes, yeah, The Guardian, the Reading improves empathy, study finds. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Well, you can talk a little bit more about this from your perspective, but I don’t know. I think great writing certainly helps us to work out different problems in our own lives. Michael Grybko: Sure. Kelton Reid: Even thought they might not be the exact problems we’re having. I think this is why great writers are masters of brevity. They don’t tell the whole story. They’re painting the canvas with really bold brush strokes, but leaving a lot to the imagination. Michael Grybko: Right, right. Kelton Reid: Maybe you could touch on that a little bit. Is that valid? Does studying stories make us more empathetic? Michael Grybko: Well, I think the article published in The Guardian does a pretty good job at summarizing the original article, which I found. This was published by Kidd and Castano, if I’m pronouncing that right. The article is Reading Literary Fiction Improves Theory of Mind. That s the original research article. Yeah, it seems like their findings are accurately described in the Guardian article. Basically, they had people read some passages, some literary passages, and then gave them some tests to see if their sense of empathy and theory of mind were improved. These tests have been pretty well vetted, so the conclusion was, that yes, reading literary fiction enhances the ability to detect and understand other people’s emotions. Basically, we have to talk about theory of mind here a little bit and describe that. Empathy, by itself, is kind of useless. Empathy is just a shared emotion. So if you were angry or sad, and I saw that, I would become angry and sad. That by itself doesn’t do us much good. We just have two sad people instead of one, or two mad people instead of one, and then terrible things happen. That’s how wars start. Theory of mind is also referred to as mentalizing or mentalization. This is our ability to draw a conclusion as to why the person we’re observing is having a certain response. This, in turn, allows us to take action. So I can do something to alleviate, or try to alleviate, your sadness or anger. If you think about it, this is a very important aspect of us being human and us living in societies. If witnessing and reading literary fiction and partaking in storytelling, increases our theory of mind, we may end up being better people and taking more appropriate action to alleviate conflict or emotional pain in our fellow humans. Now I’m kind of stretching it out a bit here. In the original article, they were only able to look at shortly after an individual read a literary passage. It’s hard to say if this was a long-lasting effect or not. I guess we’re getting into the edge of what neuroscience can really test empirically on the subject and delving into the speculation aspect of it. Kelton Reid: Just a quick pause to mention that The Writer Files is brought to you by the Rainmaker Platform, the complete website solution for content marketers and online entrepreneurs. Find out more, and take a free 14-day test drive at Rainmaker.FM/Platform. I guess the next logical question is, I hear so many writers say that at the end of the day to unwind they will pick up a good book, or turn on the Netflix and watch their favorite show, and they’re escaping into a story, basically. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: These same people who create these vast, amazing stories are spending lots of time studying story. Basically, what is it about the story that we find so pleasurable? Michael Grybko: Right. Writers Addiction To Stories (Especially The Dark Ones) Kelton Reid: Why can’t we get enough story? I feel like we spend our whole lives inundated with stories, and we just keep going back. Michael Grybko: Yeah, I agree. Kelton Reid: Like it’s so hard to escape it. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: But we love it, it’s an addiction, right? Michael Grybko: It’s an interesting question, and going back to beginning of our conversation, storytelling spans this spectrum from didactic to purely pleasurable. Kelton Reid: When you say didactic, I keep thinking the Bible. That’s like didactic text. Michael Grybko: Almost. There’s a lot of storytelling. When you think of children’s stories, things like that, they’re meant to teach morals and values and how to behave. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: You can even think of other texts that work like that. Storytelling is prone to be an effective means to do that. A lot of cultures, I think, also use storytelling as sort of an archive of their history. Kelton Reid: Right. Michael Grybko: They don’t have written libraries, and storytelling has been important in that sense, to pass along traditions and the history of their society or culture. Kelton Reid: Sure, and isn’t that because so much of it was verbal? Michael Grybko: Right, but then they would enshrine things in stories, almost, because it made it a better way to deliver the message. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: Instead of, again, just spewing out facts, and that’s because it’s pleasurable, getting back to what you’re talking about. From a neuroscience perspective, I think we can have a pretty good idea of why it’s effective, why storytelling is effective at delivering facts and information. What we don’t have a great idea about is why is it so pleasurable? This is a very, very difficult question to answer empirically. That’s because storytelling is a complex human behavior, and as far as I know, there isn’t another animal out there that does this. For these reasons, it makes it very difficult to study on neuronal level. It s a complex human behavior, and we don’t have any good animal models to use. Furthermore, if you look at the mechanisms we’re using to look at it, something like MRI, again, this is a machine, big clunky machine, that you have to sit in. To really get at why storytelling is important, someone would have to spend a lot of time in an MRI machine to find out what’s going on in their brain over time. That’s just not practical. Unfortunately we’ve kind of reached the edge of the capabilities of neuroscience and our technical abilities. But I think we can speculate a bit on this, of the pleasure aspect, and I think that’s why this article by Kidd and Castano is so important. It s starting to answer some of these questions. If our sense of empathy and theory of mind increase with storytelling, I can envision that over time, we ve built up a neuronal reward mechanism when we encounter storytelling. These are seen throughout the nervous system. We have a dopamine system, an opiate system, these hedonic centers of the brain that become activated when something pleasurable is happening. We have sugary food, or fatty food, and I think possibly storytelling may be activating the same centers, too. The question is, why would this happen? This article by Kidd and Castano may have the answer. If it is increasing our theory of mind and improving our interactions with other people and making us more pleasant and easier to get along, groups of people, that may be why it’s so pleasurable. Because we are social. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: This is so important to our success, our ability to act in groups and to form societies. If what we’re getting out of storytelling is an improved sense of community and society, there may be a system there that’s encouraging it. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: So I’ll have to find out, or some neuroscientists are going to have to thinking of a way to test this little theory of mine here. Kelton Reid: You want to put me in an MRI and have me watch the entirety of Game of Thrones from start to finish? Michael Grybko: Hell, if you’re volunteering, if you want to sit in an MRI for — I don’t know, that would take days I think — maybe we could find out what’s going on, yeah. Kelton Reid: That brings me to another question, which I’m sure that we can’t answer in this span of this podcast, but why do we like tragedies so much? Like from Shakespeare to Game of Thrones, for instance. Michael Grybko: Yeah, that’s just gory stuff. And we like it. Kelton Reid: Why are we so attracted to these dark stories like Gone Girl, or House of Cards, or I think of a guy who built his whole career around dark, darker places in our mind like Stephen King. Then I think about, storytelling can’t be all wish fulfillment, because that’s boring. Michael Grybko: Right, yeah. No one wants to watch Disney all the time, right? Kelton Reid: Disney taps into the story archetypes, too. There’s always an inciting incident. Something bad usually happens. Someone gets lost, or someone is dead. They usually start with a heartbreaking turn. Michael Grybko: Bambi? I mean, come on. Kelton Reid: It’s almost like that’s kind of built-in. I’m sure there’s not an answer to that question, but think about the last few great stories, or TV shows, or movies, that you saw. They probably include some element of tragedy to them. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: I don’t know, I think of a recent young adult hit. It s John Green’s Fault in Our Stars, and it’s about a young woman who is dying of cancer, right? That’s the premise. Then she falls in love with another young man who is also dying of cancer. That was a very popular book. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: And a very popular movie, and we can’t get enough. Michael Grybko: Breaking Bad. Kelton Reid: Breaking Bad. We love a good antihero. Michael Grybko: That’s got drug dealers, and cancer — that’s got it all. All the dark stuff. Kelton Reid: Why do you think that is? Can you speculate on that at all? What Stories Have in Common with Flight Simulators Michael Grybko: Yeah, again, it’s hard to really peer into the mind and get a neural understanding of what’s going on in the neurons to answer this question. Storytelling, another aspect to it, when we immerse ourselves in stories, it becomes sort of a testing ground for these life situations and for our emotions and social interactions. What we’re doing is we may be able to play with our own emotions and learn about these interactions and test our theory of mind in a safe setting, because in the end, we can walk away from it unscathed. The advantage may be that somehow, we’re learning how to deal with these situations in a safe zone, if you will, so when we do encounter them in the real world, we’ll be better emotionally prepared and socially prepared. We’ll have a better reaction to that person who is going through something. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: Being harassed by a psychopathic, drug-dealing meth-head. Yeah. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Or the white walkers are chasing him down. Kelton Reid: Well I think Jonathan Gottschall in his book, The Storytelling Animal, did say that fiction is an ancient form of problem-solving, and it does strengthen and reinforce those neuro-pathways that help us to learn. I think the metaphors that he used was, or a simile, was that airline pilots learn from simulators. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: That’s how they keep cool under pressure with thousands of lives at stake, hundreds of lives, tens of hundreds of lives? I don’t know, how many people sit on a plane? Michael Grybko: Hundreds. Kelton Reid: Hundreds of lives at stake thousands of feet in the air in a giant piece of metal rocketing through the sky. How do they keep their cool? Well they’ve learned to keep their cool through thousands of hours of flight simulation. Michael Grybko: Yeah, so storytelling may be our flight simulator. Kelton Reid: For life. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: Interesting, interesting. Michael Grybko: One more, I want to bring up, and this important in storytelling, is for that to be effective — I think this is important for writers to keep in mind — if storytelling is a testing ground, this flight simulator, where we can test things that are really extraordinary, maybe situations we would never encounter, what s important for the writers to keep in mind is you also can’t make it so out there that you lose the audience. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: As soon as the audience loses that empathy, that connection, that believability, then the message is not going to come across. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: As soon as you think, This will never happen in real life, then it’s game over. Kelton Reid: Right. Michael Grybko: Those are the great authors to me, or the great storytellers. They re the ones that can really take you out there and keep your attention and keep you believing. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Well, kind of like how you flip through Netflix. You can be flipping through Netflix for an hour before you find a show you, and/or whomever you’re watching TV with, agree on based on your mood. Probably writers in whatever, to whomever they’re writing for, need to take into consideration their audience first. I know we’ve talked about that before also. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: That the kind of story you’re telling really needs to be targeted to your audience. Michael Grybko: Yeah, you have to know your audience. Kelton Reid: You have to know your audience, and you have to know their hopes, dreams, fears, and what mood they’re going to be in when they find whatever it is you’re writing. Michael Grybko: It’s hard to do. Where Humanity Would Be without Storytelling Kelton Reid: Whether you’re doing marketing or writing something purely to entertain people. Anyway, where would we be without storytelling? I guess that’s the million dollar question. Michael Grybko: Yeah, it’d be boring. Kelton Reid: Life would suck, I think. We wouldn’t daydream. We’d just be worker bees. We’d be drones. Robots. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: Do androids dream of electric sheep? Michael Grybko: Yeah, I don’t know. It seems like storytelling is so coupled to humanity, like we were talking about. It s been around forever, and it appears in many cultures. Would we even be here? How powerful is this? How important is it? Clearly we spend a lot of money on movies, books, theater, so it’s important. Kelton Reid: Absolutely, so to tap into great storytelling for the good of humanity, what are we doing? Are we making sure that our audience is the hero at the center of that story that is really well-worn into our psyches already? We’ve been marketed to, and we’ve been read stories from birth, from commercials, to billboards, to storybooks, to movies, and television, and everything. Everything is really a story. Michael Grybko: Yeah, wow. What is the world, is the observer, in the storytelling process? Are they just getting immersed in the fantasy? Or do they actually think they’re running the characters? Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: That’s probably going to vary from story to story, and from individual to individual. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Great storytelling. Kelton Reid: The power of a great story is really in the hands of the writer, I guess, is what we’ll circle back to. Michael Grybko: Right. Well, and the writer understanding his or her audience. Kelton Reid: Every great story starts with a writer. Michael Grybko: Yes. Kelton Reid: Now. Michael Grybko: Yes. But they need something to write about, right? They need some event. So you have this cycle I can see forming here. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Writers are serving something in the world. They make it interesting, and sell it back to the people they were observing. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: It’s a great scam you’ve got going there, you writers. Kelton Reid: We really hold the key to unlocking … Michael Grybko: You’re getting all this material from us, and then you’re making us pay to tell us about it. Kelton Reid: Right. It brings us, finally, back to probably input equals output, so the more great storytelling we study, the more we learn and absorb, the better our stories will become. Michael Grybko: Yes. Kelton Reid: Does that make sense? Michael Grybko: Absolutely. It does to me. Kelton Reid: All right. Michael, I think we have reached a suitable conclusion, although I’m sure that you and I could talk about this for another hour or two. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: As we have in the past. But I think we’ll wrap it up there. Michael Grybko: All right. Kelton Reid: Thank you very much for your time and for taking a break from your busy schedule over there and for chatting with me again. Michael Grybko: Oh, you’re welcome. I always enjoy these conversations. Kelton Reid: All right, my friend, well I hope that you will revisit us here on The Writer Files. Michael Grybko: Yeah, I’d love to. Kelton Reid: I appreciate your time, and we will revisit The Writer’s Brain very soon. Michael Grybko: Great, thank you. Kelton Reid: Stay curious, my friends. Remember it’s no secret why great stories run the world. Thanks for joining me a glimpse into the workings of the writer’s brain. For more episodes of The Writer Files or to leave us a comment or a question, drop by WriterFiles.FM. You can always chat with me on Twitter, @KeltonReid. Cheers, see you out there.

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