Podcasts about Jonathan Gottschall

As you might have noticed, the world is awash in narratives. You hear people talk about “establishing the narrative”, or noting that “in the last 24 hours the narrative has changed.” We don't talk about facts any more, we talk about narratives. And more than that. Narratives are, many have decided, cause conflict. They enable genocide, and wars. They are also embedded into our biology–”hardwired”, to use a word popular with neurobiological enthusiasts– due to evolutionary developments, and so by narrative we shall always be afflicted.  With me today to discuss narrative is Adrian Goldsworthy, who has committed numerous acts of narrative in both history and fiction. He was last on the podcast in Episode 332 to discuss the tangled history of Rome and Persia, which he wrote about in his most recent book Rome and Persia: The Seven Hundred Year Rivalry. This is his fifth appearance on the podcast. I should add that this episode was first dropped to our subscribers on Patreon, the members of Historically Thinking's Common Room; and that if you were a member of the Common Room, you would have already heard it. For Further Investigation Adrian Goldsworthy has previously been on the podcast in the following episodes, and discussing these topics: Episode 63, on Julius Caesar as a historian; Episode 75, on Hadrian's wall; Episode 182, on Philip Macedonia and his spoiled-brat son; and finally the aforementioned Episode 332 on Rome v. Persia. We've discussed the problematic nature of narrative in Episode 243 with Jonathan Gottschall, the author of The Story Paradox: How Our Love of Storytelling Builds Societies and Tears Them Down. WARNING: he is not as keen on narrative as Adrian.

Dreams are messages from the deep; but where will our dreams ultimately take us? In this episode, we begin our deep dive into all things 'Dune', including an analysis of the 2021 film. We explore this cautionary tale through the lenses of identity and destiny, incorporating insights from Jonathan Gottschall's book The Storytelling Animal.  Introduction (0:00) Why We Chose 'Dune' (1:33) 'Dune's' Context (4:26) Analyzing 'Dune' (13:18) The Storytelling Animal & 'Dune's' Relevancy (36:20) Conclusion (41:46) Stay up to date with our movie club, and see which films we'll cover in the future. All Things Narrative exists to guide you towards telling and living your story more meaningfully. Explore the story your life is telling through a FREE Discovery Call sign-up at: allthingsnarrative.com Follow us on Instagram @allthingsnarrative Like us on Facebook @allthingsnarrative Connect with Derrick on Letterboxd @thenarrativeguy Check out Joseph's stop-motion films on YouTube @JoeLee Stark25 Produced by All Things Narrative LLC

Philosophy: Philosophy is Life - Epistemology: http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/FiveBranchesMain.htmlNews: The stupid, the ignorant and the evil: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/trump-supporters-republican-approval-cnn-town-hall/674142/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpfHCSRIRf4Conversations with an Atheist: Harmful biblical directives:https://www.tuscaloosanews.com/story/opinion/letters/2007/11/11/bible-full-of-immoral-acts/27732069007/Closing: Ain't No Half-Stepping: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2024/01/04/alena-mcquarter-15-year-old-college-graduate/72094788007/

This month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall.Matt Madden is the host of the Path to Presales Podcast.Be sure to check out https://demojockeys.com/ for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more.Next month's book is Range by David Epstein.Music: The Wu Town Shuffle by Mr. Lincoln

This month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall.Matt Madden is the host of the Path to Presales Podcast.Be sure to check out https://demojockeys.com/ for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more.Next month's book is Range by David Epstein.Music: The Wu Town Shuffle by Mr. Lincoln

This month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall.Check out the Heider and Simmel animation mentioned in the episode.Be sure to check out https://demojockeys.com/ for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more.Next month's book is Range by David Epstein.Music: The Wu Town Shuffle by Mr. Lincoln

Fiction is an ancient virtual reality technology that specializes in simulating human problems.“Like a flight simulator, fiction projects us into intense simulations of problems that run parallel to those we face in reality. And like a flight simulator, the main virtue of fiction is that we have a rich experience and don't die at the end.”That was Jonathan Gottschall. This is the stunningly brilliant Chris Torbay.“My name is Michelle, and I work for Chapman Insurance. I work in the call center answering the phone. ‘What kind of job is that?' you're thinking. Well, when it's your call, maybe I make a difference for you. Maybe you were dreading another one of those stupid corporate phone things with their ‘press one' and ‘press two' and ‘press six if a palm tree just fell on your doghouse,'… but you get to talk to a person, and you get to tell a real person how worried you are. And I get it because I'm a real person and I do this for a living! And I can see your policy and answer your questions because I know how confusing this can be, and when you hang up, you feel like someone with a heart and a soul, and a pretty awesome understanding of insurance has had the basic human decency to answer the phone and talk to you like a person instead of making you press six!!!!! My name is Michelle!!!! I work with Chapman, and your insurance call matters to me!!!!”[MALE VOICE] Visit cigFlorida.com© Chris Torbay 2023Jonathan Gottschall goes on to say,“Fiction seems to be more effective at changing beliefs than nonfiction, which is designed to persuade through argument and evidence. Studies show that when we read nonfiction, we read with our shields up. We are critical and skeptical. But when we are absorbed in a story, we drop our intellectual guard.”“There is no doubt fiction makes a better job of the truth.”– Doris Lessing, winner of the 2007 Nobel Prize in Literature“Escapist fantasies are laughably superficial. Attaining them isn't what we really want. If we did, they'd no doubt bore or disappoint us. We don't want the fantasy. We want to fantasize.”– Evan Puschak, Escape into Meaning, p.109“The one thing emphasized in any creative writing course is ‘write what you know,' and that automatically drives a wooden stake through the heart of imagination. If they really understood the mysterious process of creating fiction, they would say, ‘You can write about anything you can imagine.'”– Tom Robbins“Fantasy, abandoned by reason, produces impossible monsters; united with it, she is the mother of the arts and the origin of marvels.”– Francisco GoyaBut how does a person become creative?“When you notice a commonality between two or more things, you say, ‘Oh there's something there.' And now we make what's called a charm bracelet: You take these things and you find a way to associate them. So that's the process: I'm thinking about this [one] thing and then remember this [other] thing, and then you go, ‘Oh there's something there — let me connect those 2 things.”– Jerry SeinfeldBrandon Sanderson agrees with Jerry Seinfeld:“The way that human creativity works is by combination. That's what we're really good at. We don't come up with a completely new creature. We put a horn on a horse and go, ‘Look at that, that's cool.' That's how we create on a fundamental level.”And Steve Jobs agreed with both Seinfeld and Sanderson:“Creativity equals connecting previously...

This month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall.Be sure to check out https://demojockeys.com/ for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more.Next month's book is Range by David Epstein.Music: The Wu Town Shuffle by Mr. Lincoln

This month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall. Pick up a copy todayBe sure to check out https://demojockeys.com/ for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more.Next month's book is Range by David Epstein.Music: The Wu Town Shuffle by Mr. Lincoln

This month's book is Just F*ing Demo by Rob Falcone, who joins us this week on the show! Pick up a copy: https://www.amazon.com/Just-ing-Demo-Tactics-Leading/dp/1505698804Be sure to check out demojockeys.com for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more. Next month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall: https://www.amazon.com/Storytelling-Animal-Stories-Make-Human/dp/0544002342

This month's book is Just F*ing Demo by Rob Falcone. Pick up a copy: https://www.amazon.com/Just-ing-Demo-Tactics-Leading/dp/1505698804This week we discuss using We vs You language during presentations.Be sure to check out demojockeys.com for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more. Next month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall: https://www.amazon.com/Storytelling-Animal-Stories-Make-Human/dp/0544002342

This month's book is Just F*ing Demo by Rob Falcone. Pick up a copy: https://www.amazon.com/Just-ing-Demo-Tactics-Leading/dp/1505698804Join the discussion this week about using buckets to better organize your demonstration.Be sure to check out demojockeys.com for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more. Next month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall: https://www.amazon.com/Storytelling-Animal-Stories-Make-Human/dp/0544002342

This month's book is Just F*ing Demo by Rob Falcone. Pick up a copy: https://www.amazon.com/Just-ing-Demo-Tactics-Leading/dp/1505698804This week we discuss the importance of confirming your agenda before beginning your demonstration.Be sure to check out demojockeys.com for our full list of past and upcoming books, previous episodes, and more. Next month's book is The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall: https://www.amazon.com/Storytelling-Animal-Stories-Make-Human/dp/0544002342

Joel Benge, Principal at Message Specs, and self-described "message therapist," steps into the ring!George K and George A talk to Joel about common sales and marketing messaging mistakes, and Joel runs the first “Messaging Maze,” with on-air reviews of audience-submitted outreach emails!In this episode we get into:

Um besser oder erfolgreich zu werden, brauchst du beim Schreiben Input von außen. An wen du dich dabei wenden solltest, hängt aber stark von deinem Ziel ab. Feedback von den falschen Leuten kann dir sogar schaden. Ich dieser Folge gebe ich die Tipps, von dem du dir Feedback einholen kannst. Je nachdem, ob du dich einfach besser fühlen, besser schreiben oder erfolgreich sein möchtest.Links, die ich heute erwähnt habe:- Schreibwettbewerb "Meinungsfreiheit": https://3oktober.org/schreibwettbewerb/- Tribut-Rede von Neil Gaiman für Terry Pratchett: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04s6hvdMeine Infos zu Split-Brain-Studien stammen aus dem Buch "The Storytelling Animals" von Jonathan Gottschall. Er bezieht sich auf Studien von Michael GazzanigaKleine Bitte: Nimm an dieser 2-Minuten-Umfrage teil, damit ich den Podcast so gestalten kann, dass er dir beim Schreiben hilft. Win-win :-) https://forms.gle/PUqfahzqHKAWSikq5.Feedback, Wünsche und Geldgeschenke an: geschichtenmacher@posteo.de

This week on the podcast, we're exploring the power of story. Humans are storytellers. We choose the stories we tell about our lives. In every situation, we can come up with a number of ways to tell the story of it, and they're all a version of the truth. But we get to choose which version resonates the most with us, which one feels better to us, and then that informs our actions moving forward. Getting curious about the stories we tell can be an amazing form of self-care!We hope today's episode sparks some fun insights for you and we invite you to dive deeper with our Episode Questions. Join us on Instagram or YouTube to continue the conversation and share your reflections.Let's dig deep, challenge paradigms, choose connection, and live joyfully!You can follow us on Instagram or YouTube. EPISODE QUESTIONSDownload a printable PDF of this week's questions here.Sign up here to receive each weekly PDF automatically in your email inbox.What stories are you holding on to about yourself, your partner, and your family?Where are the stories coming from? From your parents during your childhood? The outside voices of society? Somewhere else?Do you see the story in your self-talk? How else might you tell that story?How does it feel to realize that you get to craft your own stories?TRANSCRIPTPAM: Hello and welcome to the Living Joyfully Podcast. We are very happy you're here exploring relationships with us, who we are in them, out of them, and what that means for how we move through the world.And in today's episode, we are going to talk about stories, both the stories we tell ourselves and the stories we assign to other people, meaning what we think they're thinking. And yes, it can get very messy.Now, this episode is a bit longer than usual, but we think it's worth it. Stories are intricately woven into our relationships with the people that we love, and that's because humans are storytelling animals. It's how we make sense of our world. In the book The Storytelling Animal, How Stories Make Us Human by Jonathan Gottschall, he wrote, "Story is for a human as water is for a fish - all encompassing and not quite palpable." I love that so much, because story truly is everywhere. And the language we choose makes a profound difference, because the stories we tell ourselves become our self-talk. That is why we want to be intentional about the language that we're using.And what's really fascinating is that for pretty much any situation, we can come up with a number of ways to tell the story of it and they can all make sense and all could truthfully tell the story of that situation. And the thing to realize is, we get to choose which one resonates most and feels better to us, which then informs our actions moving forward, which calls back to our conversation in episode seven about how every moment is a choice. Stories and choice are woven together so well, aren't they?ANNA: Oh my gosh. So much. For me, truly understanding the role of story has been so pivotal. That awareness allowed me to step back and observe, so, where's this story coming from? Does it feel real to me and who I am in this moment? Is it serving me? And if I've held onto it for a long time, why? Why have I held onto that story? And who would I be without it? That's one I love to think about. Who would I be? What would it feel like?Because there's an energetic feeling to that. What do I feel without this story that I'm telling about myself or these people in my life? And those questions really can only come about once you take off the veil and realize that everything is a story. Then I get to dive in and have these questions. And through the questioning, I can hone in on what is really working for me.And then I can start to change my story to be more reflective of me as the person I am now, the person I want to be moving forward. And I could see the role of story more clearly and use it as a tool instead of being held hostage by it, which is kind of how it felt before.And for me, like you said, language is such a big piece of that. I try to be so intentional about my language that I use, whether I'm defining some kind of big event or a very simple task in front of me, because in that language is choice. I'm developing the story that informs my day and tells others who I am. And so, that piece is so critical to me, just seeing it for what it is. And then, how do I want to create my narrative? What language do I want to use to describe it? I like thinking about it. PAM: Yeah. And once you see the scope of it, it's incredible, because it's not only the stories that we're telling ourselves, but it's understanding that the stories we're telling others about ourselves and about our lives is the picture that they're going to draw from. That's where they're going to meet us.So, first, let's look at our self-talk, at our inner voice. Sometimes we don't think we have control over our self-talk. It just appears in our head, the words over and over and over when we're spiraling over something, right? But we truly can change that over time as we make intentional changes to the language that we use and the stories we tell ourselves.It is worth taking the time to listen to our self-talk a bit more objectively, to just ask ourselves, is this a helpful story for me?ANNA: Right, because we have the self-talk, and we don't think we can change it. I think that's something I believed when I was younger. It's hard to change or we're given this story that it's hard, but I think we may assign it more importance than perhaps serves us. So, I love the idea of really diving into that, because self-talk is just an aspect of our story. It's no different. It's no more powerful. And it's not this boogeyman that it's kind of made out to be.And sometimes our self-talk is the stories that have been handed to us, perhaps by our parents or past relationships. And what's so important there is to realize that the stories they told, even if the story is about us, is their story. It's not ours and we don't have to take it in and own it. It's about them, where they were at the time, the stories that perhaps they were handed.And so, that's the thing, right? We can just keep continuing to hand down these same stories or we can take control of our own narrative. We can look at who we really are and what's actually in front of us, and then write a story that lifts us up, because that helps us be the person that we want to be and it will inform our next steps in a given situation. And I think that's what's so important about it. That's how insidious stories are. When we carry these stories from someone else, they change our energy and then they inform our next steps, and it keeps us on this same narrow path.But at any moment, we can take back the reins. We can examine the stories that we're clinging to and we can make choices because yes, Pam, it's always about choices with me. We're going to keep bringing that up.PAM: Yes. Definitely. I love the point about realizing that the stories other people are telling about us, especially the stories we grew up with, are just somebody else's perspective. It's their story. So, maybe we've absorbed the story that we're too sensitive, or we're scared to try new things, or we're very shy. That isn't our story. It's their story about us. And we get to choose our own story.Speaking of, it's also helpful to realize that goes both ways. So, for example, take a moment to consider the stories we're telling our partner about our day. Maybe we're more likely to take it as an opportunity to vent. "I am so tired," or, "So many things went wrong today." Is that what I want to convey? What will their view of my day look like from my story? Maybe that I'm so tired because I was busy having fun playing with the kids, or deep in the flow of working on a favorite project or knocking a bunch of those tasks off my to-do list.Maybe more things unusual went wrong today precisely because I was working a to-do list that was filled with those iffy jobs, and I got them done in the end. But how will they see my day through my venting words? Probably not as the ultimately satisfying day that I saw. So, understanding that the stories I tell, big and small, live on in the world reminds me to be more intentional. Now that doesn't mean not venting, but maybe prefacing it with a quick qualifier. Like, "My day was great. I just want to vent about a couple of things."It means considering who I'm speaking with and choosing my language to better convey the meaning of my story. Is what I'm saying true? Is it how I want to be seen by others? What do I need or want from the conversation? Because stories are the lifeblood of communication.ANNA: Yes. And I think it's interesting, too, thinking about that. What do I want to get from this story? Because if we do come at our partner with all the things that have happened in the day and then they come back trying to solve things and really we're like, "Wait a minute, it's just a story we're telling about how we had these tough things," you know? So, keep all that in mind. It's the lifeblood of communication. I don't think that's an overstatement. I think that's really so true.And so, keeping in mind that others will see our story through their lens, what they know, and that's okay. Understanding that helps us put their comments or reactions into perspective as well. Back to everyone is different. We see and experience the world differently.PAM: Yes. And that is absolutely a wonderful thing. We have control over our stories and what pieces we choose to share and how we choose to share. Understanding that other people come to conversations with their lens, too, so, not expecting them to fully understand what it looks like through our eyes and not even expecting them to even be curious to understand. We can't control where they are on their journey.Now, I also want to talk about the stories that we assign to other people, because so often we tend to assume the worst story. For myself and many others that I've spoken with, when we're feeling disconnected from someone or they react negatively to something we've said or done, the story we immediately tell ourselves is that we did something wrong, but often that really isn't true.It's so helpful to remember that, when we're thinking about what someone else is thinking, that is a story that we're making up. No matter how well we know them, we still don't know for sure. So don't assume that the first story that we jump to is the same story that they see. ANNA: Yes. So often, we find ourselves putting words into people's heads, and we will actually play out the scenarios till the end without the other person involved at all. "They're upset with me. I did something wrong. They don't like what I'm doing," whatever the words were saying. Even, "They're trying to hurt me. Their actions are intentional towards me." So often, we get that very wrong. We really don't know what's happening in another person's head.I have a friend that will honestly just create entire movies and the challenge with that is, it doesn't leave room for anything else. Once you've created a story for someone, you start acting from that place with that energy. So, if you've ever had one of those dreams where it's so real, your partner has done something terrible and really upset you, and you wake up and you're still super mad and they're going like, "What is happening? I just woke up. I don't know what you're talking about!"But it's the same when we create a story. We can buy into that energy and bring that energy to the person and they have no idea where it's coming from. But instead, if we can first assume positive intent, second, we can ask questions and leave space and remain open, then the person's free to share what they're actually feeling. And so often, it does not come close to the stories that we're making up.So, I have a friend and a while back, she shared a story and she didn't share it as a story. She shared it as a fact. She said that her husband didn't find her attractive. And she said, "He actively avoids even touching me when we walk each other past each other in the hall." And I was like, "Oh, wow. Have you talked to him about that?" And she was like, "Well, no." And then when she did, she found the complete opposite was true. He was trying to be respectful of her space. So, he felt by moving aside in the hall, he was showing respect for her space and honoring her.And so, then they had this conversation around what would feel good to each other and how they want to move forward. And it's very different now. But she had been telling that story for years and he had no idea. That's just how insidious these stories are. And I think it's just really worth examining the stories that we put on others, even when we feel it's justified, even if we think we know them so well, even if we've held onto these stories for years. Conversations are so important. Being open and curious. Leave space for people to tell us who they are. Pre-writing a detailed story does not.You can feel that closed energy when you come in with this pre-populated story and it's so disconnecting. Even some light inquiry can shed light on what's really going on and give space for each person to share their perspective. And then we can understand where the communication broke down in the first place and why maybe we're seeing it differently, but that won't happen if we stay in our head creating stories. That will only happen with that choice of connection and that choice to have some conversations.PAM: Yeah, sometimes I can get stuck in a really negative story about someone else, and I just don't feel confident enough to ask about it yet or bring it up. But when that happens, I found it helpful to just remind myself that it's a story and then start to play with that. How else might this story go? What about this? Does that fit? Maybe this? So, once I think of a few other things, even if they seem outlandish to me right now, I realize that there isn't just one possible story. It wasn't just the one thing that I was clinging to and being upset about. That lightens things up for me.And usually, when I'm feeling lighter, now I can get curious. Which one is it? I want to know now. And then usually I can get to the space, the energy, where it doesn't feel so heavy and I can actually bring up the conversation with them. I can actually go, "Hey, what about this? What did that feel like to you?"On the flip side, moving through that process over and over helped me realize that I really don't know what's going on in another person's life that has led them to make whatever choice it is that they made. That's their story, their truth. That's been a very helpful discovery on my journey around stories, just that realization that these are stories. My story, their story, it's their truth in the moment. And that is just enough. I can be curious then. It reminds me that there are multiple ways that things can go.ANNA: Right. And there are just always more layers, I think, to peel back on our stories, which kind of leads nicely to this last bit we wanted to talk about. We get to choose the stories we tell. And we touched on this back a bit back in the choices episode, but I want to bring it up again. We choose the stories we tell about the big things like our childhood and the little things like the grocery store. And in every situation, there are things that are easier and harder, that work or don't work. But we can choose to focus on those aspects that make sense and feel better to us.For any situation, we can come up with a number of ways to tell the story of it, and they all make sense in the context of the activity, the situation, the people involved, and they can all truthfully tell the story. But now, we get to choose which one resonates the most with us, which one feels better to us, which then informs our actions moving forward. That's the power of story. PAM: Right. Especially in more challenging situations, it's so valuable to take a moment to not just jump in with the first story that comes to mind, which is usually fear-based. And it's usually the worst one, the worst interpretation of things. And if we just stick with that one, we can get tunnel vision and start spiraling downward in our fears. We can get really stuck there if we only see this one worst interpretation of the situation in front.So, instead, take that moment to come up with a few more stories that align with the situation. If we don't take the time to consider other stories, we're not really making a meaningful choice moving forward, are we? You can't choose between one thing. And choosing more positive stories, ones that feel better to us, isn't about avoiding the truth, because the different stories all incorporate the facts. But for me, choosing the more positive story is really a form of self-care.Instead of telling myself over and over the versions that make me feel bad, that weigh me down, that pull me into that tunnel vision, I can tell myself the versions of the story that both make sense and feel better. Because from there, I'm in a more open and curious and receptive mindset, a place where I can now see more opportunities. I can be more creative in choosing my next step and my next moment is truly better. And I find myself then starting to spiral upwards, moving through it, rather than spiraling down and crashing and just feeling crushed.ANNA: And getting stuck! So, my oldest daughter and I talked about this so many times over the years, because she is a master storyteller. And, I mean, it's a gift. It is a gift that she has and it is amazing. But sometimes, it gets the better of her, because sometimes she can spin this really intricate story about someone else or about a situation, and it ends up making her feel terrible. But in the end, it's just a story. We're making it up in our heads.And I think once I realized that, I decided, if I'm going to make up a story, I'm going to make up a story that feels good, one that helps me feel connected, that helps me move forward as the person I want to be, which is exactly what you're talking about.So, I want to examine if my story spirals me into a place of being stuck, or if my story is lifting me. I may not understand all the pieces, but I can feel okay about the situation if I look at it this way, and that helps me move forward as the person I want to be. And like we've talked about before, there are situations sometimes where I can get some clarifying information so that I can get a more accurate picture, because maybe there's someone else involved and I can stop putting words in their mouth and actually figure it out.But other times, like you said, it really isn't even possible. When it's not possible, I just always want to choose the story that feels better, because it's just as likely to be true as the one that doesn't. And so, I'm just wasting the time in this moment feeling bad about something when I really don't even know the full story. And so, that's why I love that you tied it into self-care, because that's exactly what it is. It really is just this intentional choice to look at what's in front of me and find a story that feels good.And again, it's not about pushing the other things aside. It's not about pretending that things didn't happen or changing the story. It's just intentionally using language that makes me feel good about what's happening around me. So, for me, if it's a particularly challenging or difficult situation, it's not about pretending that the difficult situation didn't happen, but I look for, how have I moved through it? Look at the amazing support I've received from the people around me. Look at how loved I am because they've helped me through this situation. Look at what I've learned about myself from it.Whatever the situation, I can always find a way to frame it to use what can be a challenging situation to make myself feel better and to move forward from there. And so, that's also an empowerment piece, knowing that I can turn these situations that can completely derail me into situations that just boost me forward and allow me to be around the people that I love and to connect with the people that lift me up.PAM: Yes. And another layer that I think would be helpful for people to peel back, and I am still peeling this layer back, but, why is our tendency to take on that weight? Why does it feel like the more positive spin or the silver lining is it cheat? It really is not. And we can do that work to peel back those layers and to realize that these are all stories, they are all versions of the truth. They could absolutely all be true.ANNA: And I think this part is related to the stories handed to us by society. Things like, life is suffering. Only hard work pays off. Relationships are hard. And so, when you find this cheat, you're like, "Wait a minute. Maybe it doesn't have to be this hard. Maybe I can be enjoying it," but then you might try to stop yourself. Like, "What? But we've been told that forever!"But no, set that aside, because we don't have to make situations more difficult. There's going to be plenty of things in life to work through, but when you can find joy, when you can switch that focus, see the light, find the gifts in the situation, life is just so much more enjoyable. But we do have to shed some of those stories from society, some of those stories from even other people in our lives, in order to create what feels good for us.PAM: Yeah, I love that. I mean, "Life is hard." Don't we hear that all the time? But then, if we tell a different story, the reaction can often be like, "Well, you're a Pollyanna. You're not seeing the truth." Another story. Right? It is just so useful to work through all of that.Now, you and I have both heard, "You guys are always so positive," and people think it's weird at first, which is okay, because it's part of the process of peeling back those layers and understanding that our stories are ours to tell and there's more than one way to tell the story. We don't always have to take the negative, life-is-hard bent on it. ANNA: Right. And the reason I'm telling the story is for me. It's not to put on a show or make anything look different for somebody else from the outside. It's because it helps me be the person I want to be.It helps me in my relationships. I remember one time somebody said to me, "I get it now. I get that you're not just a Pollyanna about life. It's that it helps you have these relationships. It helps you move through these situations." And I'm like, "Yes, that's absolutely it." I'm not thinking about anybody else's reaction to me choosing joy or finding light in a moment, because that's my internal work.Now, I'm understanding that it can come across that way as people are listening to it, but I'm like, "Oh, no, no, no. This is just a tool." It's a tool that helps me connect with people. It helps me move through my days in a way that feels better to me. And it's just a choice. And I think if somebody wants to play around with it, they can see how it feels for them, too.PAM: Exactly. Exactly. And I find it helps me be more creative. It helps me come up with more possibilities. And that's the thing. You can try it out for a while and you see how it goes. And I do suspect you'll start to see things that wouldn't have happened in the other mindset.ANNA: Yeah, it's really true. And I do think it's so interesting and we definitely get feedback about that.I mean, I definitely get that. "You're always looking on the bright side!" And I'm like, I feel all the things, but it's just, again, those stories we create, it impacts how we move forward. It impacts how we see all the things around us.So, let's talk about some questions you might want to ponder for this week as you explore the idea of stories. First, what story are you holding onto about yourself, your partner, and your family? And that's a lot. So, that one may take a few minutes, because we have stories that have been handed us from childhood and on. So, there's a lot of stories there.Where are the stories coming from, from your parents during childhood, from outside voices of society, somewhere else? Identifying where, I think, is so key to realizing and taking your power back there, to realize, I don't need to own their story. That story's not about me at all.And so, do you see the story in your self-talk and how else might you tell that story? Self-talk again, it's kind of this bugaboo that we're unsure about. How do we change it? But I think the first step, don't you think, is just identifying it, just recognizing it as a story.PAM: Yes. Recognizing it as a story and, like in the previous question, where did that story come from? Is it really my story or is it something that I've absorbed over the years? It's someone else's view that I've adopted because they can really feel like that's our story, That's our self-talk, because we should be more productive, we should be efficient. "I should be able to do this quickly," or, "I shouldn't be so sensitive." There are just so many stories that we've absorbed over time that are really somebody else's view. And to check in and start asking ourselves and see, well, does that make sense to me? Do I feel sensitive all the time? What's wrong with being sensitive? There are just so many questions and layers do with that.ANNA: And you know I love, who would I be without that story? So, feel that. Who would I be without telling that story about I'm so sensitive or I can't get anything done whatever the thing is that people have handed to us. So, yeah, so interesting.And finally, how does it feel to realize that you get to craft your own story? And so, I think it, I think that may take a minute, because it's just realizing, Okay, do I get to write it? Because I think, again, some people think it's a cheat. But it's like, no, you really do. You really get to pick the things that you like and craft that as your own personal story, even when there's tragedy, even when there are bad things that have happened. There are things to look at that we can just say, yeah, but this is who I want to be and this is how I went through those tough times, and this is what was surrounding me during that. And so, that we can hold onto that part of the story as well.PAM: Yeah, and I think that's one of the big things that I want to share with people is that these are true moments. This isn't stuff that we're making up. We're not saying, ignore all this hard stuff that's going on around you.It's, as you said, a tool that can be helpful in moving through those seasons, moving through those emergency moments, all those pieces. For me, it is so incredibly helpful for me to move out of that fight or flight tunnel, which can be super helpful in the moment. But we get stuck there so easily. This is a tool that really helps me move through that. I just find it's become such a useful tool, because I know I'm more creative on the other side. I move through things with more grace and just more compassion and kindness for other people that are involved when I can help myself with this tool move beyond that tunnel vision and the that whole fight flight emergency response when things go wrong. That's helped me.ANNA: It will be fun to see what people bring up about stories. So, thank you so much for listening and we hope to see you next time. So, take care. Bye-bye.PAM: Bye, everyone.

Gianluca Gatta ha letto questa settimana L'ISTINTO DI NARRARE di Jonathan Gottschall, un saggio che ci mostra come le storie siano il collante della vita sociale umana e come, proprio attraverso la narrazione di storie, siamo riusciti ad evolvere come specie e a distinguerci dagli altri animali.

Valentina Gasparet"Pordenonelegge"https://www.pordenonelegge.it/I libri come chiave per leggere il mondo, nell'anno che scardina gli scenari di pace del continente europeo: pordenonelegge trova ispirazione in un'esperienza centrale per i popoli europei, la riconquista della democrazia attraverso la Rivoluzione di velluto dell' 89, grazie alla generazione di scrittori, poeti, filosofi, donne e uomini di pensiero capaci di rivendicare la libertà per il loro popolo. La cultura può migliorare il mondo, e un “ponte” di libri fra Pordenone e Praga scandirà oggi gli eventi inaugurali di pordenonelegge: alle 18.30 al Teatro Verdi di Pordenone, il Dialogo sul presente, sull'orlo dell'Europa, protagoniste la scrittrice ceca Radka Denemarková e la scrittrice italiana Silvia Avallone, intervistate di Alessandro Catalano. Due voci a confronto, due Paesi che si sono trovati molte volte e ancora oggi si ritrovano sul confine ideologico e politico che definisce l'Europa. Prima della conversazione è prevista l'inaugurazione ufficiale della 23^ edizione di pordenonelegge: con il Presidente di Fondazione Pordenonelegge Michelangelo Agrusti interverranno il Presidente della Regione autonoma Friuli Venezia Giulia Massimiliano Fedriga e il sindaco di Pordenone Alessandro Ciriani, insieme al Console Onorario della Repubblica Ceca Paolo Petiziol.Alle 21, a Trieste nella Sala Ridotto del Teatro Verdi, si prosegue con il dialogo che impegnerà gli scrittori Josef Pánek e Mauro Covacich sul filo rosso Con il corpo qui, con la mente ovunque. Conduce la conversazione la curatrice di pordenonelegge Valentina Gasparet. E sempre alle 21, sulla Terrazza a Mare di Lignano Sabbiadoro riflettori sul dialogo Alla ricerca di storie vere: il curatore di pordenonelegge Alberto Garlini intervista Markéta Pilátová e Matteo Bussola, accomunati dalla ricerca di storie vere e originali, che si tratti di scavare negli archivi o nel profondo di se stessi.Pordenonelegge si proietterà quest'anno nell'attualità più viva, con la spiga di grano sulla sua immagine e un focus Ucraina che ospiterà lo scrittore Aleksej Nikitin in collegamento da Kiev e l'anteprima dell'antologia “Poeti d'Ucraina” (Mondadori). Straordinario lo spaccato di autori internazionali: fra gli altri i tre Premi Pulitzer Joshua Cohen, Jericho Brown e Jhumpa Lahiri cui va la 15^ edizione del Premio Crédit Agricole Friuladria La storia in un romanzo, il National Book Award Jason Mott, e Jeffery Deaver, Olivier Norek, Frans De Waal, Jonathan Gottschall, Sasha Marianna Salzmann, Thomas Gunzig, William Dalrlymple, Elisabeth Asbrink, Aleksej Nikitin, Olivier Sibony, Miguel Benasayag, Frank Westerman.IL POSTO DELLE PAROLEAscoltare fa Pensarehttps://ilpostodelleparole.it/

In this interview I chat with Dr. Jonathan Gottschall about his path from literature professor to cage-fighter. We also talk about the history of male violence in culture and throughout history, dueling and honor cultures, toxic masculinity, and what MMA says about present society and the human condition. Here is more info on Jonathan and his various works: https://www.jonathangottschall.com/Jonathan is a Distinguished Fellow in the English Department at Washington & Jefferson College. His writing at the intersection of science and art has been covered in-depth by The New York Times, The New York Times Magazine, Scientific American, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, Oprah Magazine, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Science, Nature, and on shows like Radiolab, Morning Edition, National Geographic's StarTalk with Neal de Grasse Tyson, and The Joe Rogan Experience. Jonathan is the author or editor of eight books, including The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human (Houghton 2012), The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch (Penguin 2015), and The Story Paradox: How Our Love of Storytelling Builds Societies and Tears them Down (Basic Books, November 2021), which is a about the dark side of humanity's storytelling instincts. 

Certain story templates are more effective when it comes to attracting more clients and generating more sales. Is it because they create more intense conflict?  The surprising answer is, "No." In his book, Story Paradox, Author Jonathan Gottschall reveals a stunning fact: the higher the level of poetic justice on a TV show, the higher it performs in the ratings.  In this episode of Strategic Storytelling, you'll discover the real reason these stories work...and you'll be able to apply these insights to your own business.    Jonathan Gottschall's book, The Story Paradox explores the darker side of storytelling. My ebook, Grow Your Business One Story At A Time, explains how to use storytelling purposefully for business growth.  Visit my website for more resources.   … 

Today's guests are biologist and environmentalist, Dr. Roger Payne, and literary scholar and author, Jonathan Gottschall! This is our exciting final episode before we go on a hiatus to reflect on and pursue all the wonderful insights and ideas we've gained from a year of lightning bugs. This show's central topic has been creativity, and this episode is meant to highlight how art is what is most needed right now. On this episode, we talk about the impact of a good story, what it takes for art to create change, and how to bridge the divide while also being specific and poignant. We reflect on what works in the past have inspired change and how some modern “political” works could be adjusted to have more impact and speak to issues in an approach that everyone can digest and take to heart. You can submit your questions to Ben here: https://www.speakpipe.com/BenFolds And check out the YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ix6szTyjg3vmx1sIj-Vfw See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This series is sponsored by our friend, Danny Turkel. In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to author Bruce Feiler about family narratives.Bruce has authored many books and articles, including longtime 18Forty favorite, The Stories that Bind Us, which argues that resilience in families is built by developing a strong family narrative. - Does The Stories that Bind Us deliberately have a Pesach theme? - What are the mistakes that people make in family dinner conversation? - Are there differences in the ways that we cope with different types of life transitions?Tune in to hear a conversation about Pesach and building family narratives.Interview begins at 16:27.Bruce is an American author of 15 books. Bruce's book The Secrets of Happy Families: Improve Your Mornings, Rethink Family Dinner, Fight Smarter, Go Out and Play, and Much More is a moving exploration of the ways different families have built healthy homes. Bruce writes the "This Life" column in the New York Times and the PBS miniseries Walking the Bible and Sacred Journeys with Bruce Feiler. His powerful article “The Stories That Bind Us,” in which Bruce explores the non-linear narratives of families from many different walks of life, was an early inspiration for 18Forty's series on Intergenerational Divergence. Bruce joins us to discuss the stories that families tell.References:Shel Ma'alah, Shel Matah: Seders Ideal and Real by Joanna SamuelsBelieve In Your Own Seder by Rabbi Judah Mischel Just One - The NCSY HaggadahHaggadah Encyclopedia TalmudicThe Mesivta HaggadahThe Stories that Bind Us by Bruce FeilerSin-a-gogue: Sin and Failure in Jewish Thought by David BashevkinLife Is in the Transitions: Mastering Change at Any Age by Bruce FeilerWalking the Bible: A Journey by Land Through the Five Books of Moses by Bruce FeilerThe Do-You-Know Scale by Marshall Duke and Robyn FivushThe Secrets of Happy Families by Bruce FeilerAbraham: A Journey to the Heart of Three Faiths by Bruce FeilerThe Council of Dads by Bruce FeilerThe Nonlinear Life NewsletterThe Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall

LARRY KOPALD, Co-Founder and President of THE CARBON UNDERGROUND, wants you to know that to successfully confront the climate crisis, it's not enough to reduce or even halt carbon emissions. We also need to draw down accumulated carbon from the atmosphere. Nothing does that better or more simply than Regenerative Agriculture, by rebuilding soil organic matter. I don't like talking about “the environment” as some separate entity out there. Our deepest goals in life must include a healthy relationship with the rest of nature and effective response to the climate crisis. Regenerative Agriculture and the work of The Carbon Underground offer a pathway to both. ------------------- To learn more: jonathangottschall.com “Change the story to change the world.” If the story actually has that power - and I believe it does - then it can change for better or worse. In his new book, THE STORY PARADOX, JONATHAN GOTTSCHALL declares storytelling the best method we've ever devised for manipulating each other by circumventing rational thought. As new technologies amplify the effects of disinformation campaigns, conspiracy theories, and fake news, he calls on us to stop asking, “How can we change the world through stories?” and start asking - before it's too late - “How can we save the world from stories?”

"Human beings can no more give up narrative than we can breathing or sleeping." So says my guest Jonathan Gottschall. But why are stories so important? He argues in his new book The Story Paradox: How Our Love of Storytelling Builds Societies and Tears them Down that the primary function of storytelling is to sway the listener in some way, to change how they think or fell about something, or someone. "Stories", he says "are influence machines". Part of the political divide today, for example, is over the story of America: Are we a city on the hill, a beacon of liberty and hope and progress, or an oppressive, supremacist and bloody empire? In a deep sense, the culture war is a story war, and in light of recent political developments, Gottschall says our task is now "to save the world from stories", in part by trying to tell stories without villains. Along the way we talk about the difference between suspension of disbelief and narrative transportation, politics, the role of religion, luck, and the lack of political pluralism in academia. I came away even more convinced about the power of stories, and our decisions about which stories to immerse ourselves in, as well as how stories layer on top of stories, in a kind of narrative collage.  Jonathan Gottschall Distinguished Fellow at Washington & Jefferson College, author of The Storytelling Animal, The Professor in the Cage, and The Story Paradox.  Twitter: @jonathangottsch Website: jonathangottschall.com    

Jonathan Gottschall is a distinguished research fellow in the English Department at Washington & Jefferson College and is the author of The Storytelling Animal, a New York TimesEditor's Choice and finality for the LA Times Book Prize, and The Professor in the Cage, one of the Boston Globe's Best Books of the year, as well as his latest release, The Story Paradox. He has written for or been covered in the New York Times, Scientific American, the New Yorker, the Atlantic, the Chronicle of Higher Education, and The Millions. Gottschall has also appeared on popular podcasts like Star Talk, The Joe Rogan Experience, and Radiolab. He lives in Pennsylvania.

“Change the story to change the world.” If story actually has that power - and I believe it does - then it can change for better or worse. In his new book, THE STORY PARADOX, JONATHAN GOTTSCHALL declares storytelling the best method we've ever devised for manipulating each other by circumventing rational thought. As new technologies amplify the effects of disinformation campaigns, conspiracy theories, and fake news, he calls on us to stop asking, “How can we change the world through stories?” and start asking - before it's too late - “How can we save the world from stories?”

Jonathan Gottschall, a distinguished fellow at Washington & Jefferson College, has researched storytelling and its unique power to inspire. But as he spoke at business conferences and grew aware of the popularity of storytelling in the corporate world, he came to realize just how much stories can also manipulate and destroy. From addressing climate change to the Theranos scandal, he explains the ins and outs of stories and argues for establishing a culture of honest storytelling in business. Gottschall is the author of the book "The Story Paradox: How Our Love of Storytelling Builds Societies and Tears them Down".

Storytelling, writes my guest Jonathan Gottschall, is the way in which people have for thousands of years not only bound themselves together into communities, but the art which built civilization. But story-telling is also the best way of forcing people apart, for manipulating one another, for destroying the capacity to think rationally. Behind our greatest ills, he argues, are mind-disordering stories. This naturally has implications for how we tell stories about the past. Jonathan Gottschall is distinguished research fellow in the English department at Washington and Jefferson College in Washington, Pennsylvania. He is the author most recently of The Story Paradox: How Our Love of Stories Builds Societies and Tears Them Down, which is the focus of our conversation today.

Humans are storytelling animals. Stories are what make our societies possible. Countless books celebrate their virtues. But Jonathan Gottschall, an expert on the science of stories, argues that there is a dark side to storytelling we can no longer ignore. Storytelling, the very tradition that built human civilization, may be the thing that destroys it. In The Story Paradox, Gottschall explores how a broad consortium of psychologists, communications specialists, neuroscientists, and literary quants are using the scientific method to study how stories affect our brains. In this conversation based on his new book, Gottschall reveals why our biggest asset has become our greatest threat, and what, if anything, can be done. It is a call to stop asking, “How we can change the world through stories?” and start asking, “How can we save the world from stories?”

When a mixed martial arts (MMA) gym opens across the street from his office, Jonathan Gottschall sees a challenge. Pushing forty, out of shape, and disenchanted with his job as an adjunct English professor, he works up his nerve and finds himself training for an all-out cage fight. He sees it not just as a personal test, but also as an opportunity to answer questions that have intrigued him for years: Why do men fight? Baz chats to Jonathan about his journey, his books and his cage fight!You can find more about Jonathan Gottschall and his books here https://www.jonathangottschall.com/ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

On this week's episode of The Literary Life podcast, Angelina, Cindy and Thomas share a wrap up of their year in reading–their favorite books of the year, their most hated books read in 2021, and how they each did with covering the categories of the #LitLife192021 Reading Challenge. They also talk a little about how they will be approaching their reading for next year. Download the Two for '22 adult reading challenge PDF here, and the kids' reading challenge PDF here. The Literary Life Commonplace Books published by Blue Sky Daisies are back with new covers for 2022! Also, check out the Christmas sale at HouseofHumaneLetters.com! Coming up on The Literary Life podcast in the new year, we have Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream coming up in January and after that, Abolition of Man by C. S. Lewis. Then we will be reading The Enchanted April by Elizabeth von Arnim and Charles Dickens' Hard Times later in the year. Our children's classic novel this year will be The Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame. Commonplace Quotes: Literature's world is a concrete human world of immediate experience. The poet uses images and objects and sensations much more than he uses abstract ideas. The novelist is concerned with telling stories, not with working out arguments. Northrop Frye The moon is the only one of the heavenly bodies that, whilst rising resplendently like the other luminaries, nevertheless changes and waxes and wanes as we do. Malcolm Guite I almost think that the same skin For one without has two or three within. Lord Byron, from “Don Juan” The Poetry of Shakespeare by George Meredith Picture some Isle smiling green ‘mid the white-foaming ocean; – Full of old woods, leafy wisdoms, and frolicsome fays; Passions and pageants; sweet love singing bird-like above it; Life in all shapes, aims, and fates, is there warm'd by one great human heart. Book List: Hallelujah: Cultivating Advent Traditions with Handel's Messiah by Cindy Rollins The Educated Imagination by Northrup Frye Faith, Hope, and Poetry by Malcolm Guite David's Crown by Malcolm Guite Savior of the World by Charlotte Mason The Mirror Cracked from Side to Side by Agatha Christie Anthony Horowitz Far from the Madding Crowd by Thomas Hardy Hiking Through by Paul Stutzman A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson Wintering by Katherine May The Narnian by Alan Jacobs In the Year of Our Lord 1943 by Alan Jacobs Elizabeth Goudge Assignment in Brittany by Helen Macinnes Look Back with Love by Dodie Smith The Go-Between by L. P. Hartley The Atonement by Ian McEwan Desmond MacCarthay David Cecil Letters by a Young Contrarian by Christopher Hitchens Ann Veronica by H. G. Wells The Everlasting Man by G. K. Chesterton Cranford by Elizabeth Gaskell The Odd Women by George Gissing Excellent Women by Barbara Pym If Walls Could Talk by Lucy Worsley Corsets and Codpieces by Karen Bowman *The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall (not recommended) *Tyrant: Shakespeare on Politics by Stephen Greenblatt (not recommended) MacBeth by William Shakespeare As the Indians Left It by Robert Sparks Walker Kristin Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset Lady Susan by Jane Austen Tolkien and the Great War by John Garth A Hobbit, A Wardrobe and A World War by Joseph Laconte Piranesi by Susanna Clarke Neil Gaiman The Painted Veil by W. Somerset Maugham Mythos by Stephen Fry Nina Balatka by Anthony Trollope Christmas at Thompson Hall by Anthony Trollope Support The Literary Life: Become a patron of The Literary Life podcast as part of the “Friends and Fellows Community” on Patreon, and get some amazing bonus content! Thanks for your support! Connect with Us: You can find Angelina and Thomas at HouseofHumaneLetters.com, on Instagram @angelinastanford, and on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/ANGStanford/ Find Cindy at morningtimeformoms.com, on Instagram @cindyordoamoris and on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/cindyrollins.net/. Check out Cindy's own Patreon page also! Follow The Literary Life on Instagram, and jump into our private Facebook group, The Literary Life Discussion Group, and let's get the book talk going! http://bit.ly/literarylifeFB

Today's guest is literary scholar, Research Fellow, Author, and Editor, Jonathan Gottschall! His latest book, The Story Paradox, highlights the influence of storytellers and how stories can be used for both good and bad purposes. His other work, The Storytelling Animal, shows how human beings are wired to consume stories. On this episode, we talk about how storytellers transport listeners to another state where they're compliant, the limitations of contrarian jokes, how art is hidden in non-fiction work, if happiness and success are at odds with one another, and how often times the quality of a piece is determined by the hours put in and not raw talent.    You can submit your questions to Ben here: https://www.speakpipe.com/BenFolds   And check out the YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ix6szTyjg3vmx1sIj-Vfw See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is as ubiquitous as air, water, and earth, but possibly more potent than all three? It's a story. The human brain, while swept up in the forcefield of stories, is enthralled, molded and shaped by it, but is also readily deceived by the artful embellishments by powerful story-tellers, including an unreliable narrator within. Our daily consumption of narratives presented in the form of news clips, Tiktok clips, social media posts, novella, novels, plays, or films capture our imagination while shaping our beliefs, ideas, and even our ideology.  While stories may feel like all they do is carve a path through the landscapes of make-believe, they are far more powerful and integral to our ability to navigate life's complex social-interpersonal conflicts and unimagined or unimaginable human experiences.On today's podcast, Distinguished Fellow in the English Department at Washington and Jefferson College and an author whose writing is at the intersection of science and art, and whose work has been covered in-depth by publications including Science, Nature, Scientific American, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and Oprah Magazine, Jonathan Gottschall, discusses how and why storytelling has evolved as a means to ensuring our survival. Since Executive Function skills allow us to manage our life, our goals, and our actions while tuning out unsavory emotions and amping-up motivation or grit, it might be good to think about the role stories play in tackling mental rigidity and emotional inflexibility that challenges and chaos invoke.About Jonathan GottschallPraised by Steven Pinker as “our deepest thinker about the powerful role of stories in our lives,” Jonathan Gottschall is a Distinguished Fellow in the English Department at Washington & Jefferson College. His writing at the intersection of science and art has been covered in-depth by The New York Times, The New York Times Magazine, Scientific American, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, Oprah Magazine, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Science, Nature, and on shows like Radiolab, Morning Edition, National Geographic's StarTalk with Neal de Grasse Tyson, and The Joe Rogan Experience. Jonathan is the author or editor of eight books, including The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch (Penguin 2015), The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human (Houghton 2012), and The Story Paradox: How Our Love of Storytelling Builds Societies and Tears them Down (Basic Books, November 2021), which is a about the dark side of humanity's storytelling instincts.  Website: http://www.jonathangottschall.comBooks: The Story Paradox: How Our Love of Storytelling Builds Societies and Tears them DownThe Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us HumanThe Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to WatchAbout Host, Sucheta KamathSucheta Kamath, is an award-winning speech-language pathologist, a TEDx speaker, a celebrated community leader, and the founder and CEO of ExQ®. As an EdTech entrepreneur, Sucheta has designed ExQ's personalized digital learning curriculum/tool that empowers middle and high school students to develop self-awareness and strategic thinking skills through the mastery of Executive Function and social-emotional competence.Support the show (https://mailchi.mp/7c848462e96f/full-prefrontal-sign-up)

The internet allows us to live in a more connected, global community. However it's one thing to read about other cultures and something else entirely to experience it personally...no matter what your age. This week on the podcast I'm chatting with Scott Marshall of Semester at Sea about the life-changing experience of not just studying abroad but also learning about the culture and history of multiple countries and destinations. (And Semester at Sea isn't just for youth; there's a lifelong learner program, too!) Learning about other cultures helps to bridge the gap across oceans and countrysides and helps us to become more empathic. Scott has found that the way his program is structured changes the brain chemistry as it allows participants to test biases and reflect on themselves--before, during, and after travel.  This is such an interesting conversation and I'll bet that you'll be looking up the next Semester at Sea program before you're done listening! About Scott Marshall: In Scott's role as the President and CEO, he is responsible for the overall strategic direction and financial well-being of the Institute for Shipboard Education and the Semester at Sea program.  He works to advance the mission of Semester at Sea and ensure sustainable revenue in partnership with the Senior Leadership Team (Advancement, Academics, Finance & Accounting, Human Resources, Marketing & Communications and Operations & Risk Management), the over 70,000 Semester at Sea alumni and the ISE Board of Trustees.  Scott collaborates closely with Colorado State University, the Academic Partner to Semester at Sea, and stewards strong support for the philanthropic community. Prior to the position of President and CEO, Scott served as Vice President of Academic Affairs at ISE/Semester at Sea and various leadership roles at Portland State University, including Vice Provost for Academic and Fiscal Planning and Interim Dean and Associate Dean of Graduate Programs in the School of Business.  Scott earned his Ph.D. in International Business from the University of Oregon, a Master of International Affairs from George Washington University and a Bachelor of Science in Business Economics from Willamette University.   Jump in the Conversation: [2:08] Importance of study abroad [5:42] Get lost to understand yourself [8:16] Origins of Semester at Sea (SES) and what a semester at sea looks like [10:00] What brought Scott to this program [10:22] This is the optimal design of study abroad [12:47] Success of reluctant participants [14:15] SES learning experiences [17:23] Outcomes of Semester at Sea [20:03] What's next for Semester at Sea [24:19] How Semester at Sea can help different generations [29:23] Turbo Time [36:43] Scott's magic wand [40:36] Maureen's takeaways   Links Semester at Sea Global Perspective Inventory Humanitarian trilogy documentary filmed on SES NY Times article on The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human by Jonathan Gottschall  Abby Ingleman 3D Sea 2009 Sylvia Earl TED Talk Email Maureen Maureen's TEDx: Changing My Mind to Change Our Schools The Education Evolution Facebook: Follow Education Evolution Twitter: Follow Education Evolution LinkedIn: Follow Education Evolution EdActive Collective Maureen's book: Creating Micro-Schools for Colorful Mismatched Kids Micro-school feature on Good Morning America The Micro-School Coalition Facebook: The Micro-School Coalition LEADPrep

On this episode, Harry and Philip begin a month-long exploration of myth & politics. First up for discussion - What is myth? What does it have to do with politics? Why is myth important? How does it work? What would life be like without it? Next week we will be taking a look at the history of American political myths and where we may be headed, so don't miss out on the start of this series! -- Links https://www.spectacles.news/birds-eye-myth-politics-one/ (To comment on this article, click here.) https://player.captivate.fm/collection/257e45ef-c253-469f-910e-af4545de085b (To listen only to other episodes of Bird's Eye, click here.) -- Further Reading (email contact@spectacles.news for any of these) “Anarchy is What States Make of It: The Social Construction of Power Politics,” by Alexander Wendt in International Organization. “The cultural evolution of prosocial religions,” by Ara Norenzayan et. al. in Behavioral and brain Sciences. “Erichthonius,” from Who's Who in Classical Mythology, Routledge. “Evolutionary Social Constructivism,” by David Sloan Wilson, in The Literary Animal, edited by Jonathan Gottschall and David Sloan Wilson. “Mythistory, or Truth, Myth, History, and Historians,” by William H. McNeill in Mythistory and Other Essays. Natural Right and History, by Leo Strauss. Political Myth, by Christopher Flood. “Prosociality and religion,” by Jo-Ann Tsang et. al. in Current Opinion in Psychology. Republic, by Plato, translated by Allan Bloom. -- Table of Contents 00:00 - Intro/Housekeeping 00:44 - Noble Lies 01:32 - Episode Topic Introduction 02:21 - What is myth? 06:01 - How is this relevant to politics? 07:19 - Three Examples of Political Myths 13:24 - Do myths have to be true or false? 16:43 - How important are things besides myth? 18:30 - Why do humans resort to myths? 22:06 - How do myths work, and what can they do? 25:40 - How do myths change over time? 29:05 - How does myth align the individual and common goods? 33:37 - What are some disadvantages of myth? 36:36 - How does war shape myths? 37:30 - What would life be like without myths? 40:40 - Next week's topic 41:09 - Signing off

Join Read Into This host Beth Lyons as she explores how virtual read alouds have been used with fellow teacher-librarian Julie Vandendool and kindergarten educator Aviva Dunsiger throughout the 2020-2021 school year. Our discussion stems from a Twitter thread between the three of us looking at why read alouds seemed to have been more successful when in a virtual space than in the bricks-and-mortar space while following safety protocols. How do we balance supporting the literacy needs and sharing of stories with students and educators using virtual tools with the power we know that comes from small group discussions and the connections made when talking about the books together? Both Julie and Beth reflect on how the act of sharing stories in a large school-wide setting using virtual tools allowed for a small act of community gathering in a year when we were all so far apart. How can we engage in a story and the learning connected to themes and inquiry sparks when working with grades ranging from kindergarten to Grade 8. We know that stories act as “mirrors, windows and sliding glass doors” (Rudine Sims Bishop) but how have they also acted as “keys” (Julie Vandendool) to a shared common space? Julie Vandendool- Alloa Public School LLC@AlloaLlc Aviva Dunsiger@avivaloca Poem shared by Julie-Her Books and Stories by Erin Hansenhttps://inspiration.allwomenstalk.com/her-books-and-stories-by-erin-hanson/Sparks that helped structure our discussion:“We are, as a species, addicted to story. Even when the body goes to sleep, the mind stays up all night, telling itself stories” ~Jonathan Gottschall, The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us HumanThe Science of Story- https://news.berkeley.edu/berkeley_blog/the-science-of-the-story/Jonathan Gottschall Tedx- https://youtu.be/Vhd0XdedLpYTexts mentioned in this episode:The Truth About Wind by Hazel Hutchins & Gail HerbertI Talk Like a River by Jordan Scott and Sydney SmithWhat Riley Wore by Elana K. ArnoldA Family is a Family is a Family by Sara O'LearyMalaika series by Nadia L. HohnI Lost My Talk by Rita JoeTake It Back by Kia AbdullahWhite Fragility by Robin DiAngeloCultivating Genius by Gholdy MuhammadCalm, Alert, and Learning by Stuart ShankerInquiry Mindset by Trevor Mackenzie and Rebecca Bathurst-HuntMake Writing: 5 Teaching Strategies That Turn Writer's Workshop Into a Maker Space by Angela StockmanCreating Inclusive Writing Environments in the K-12 Classroom: Reluctance, Resistance, and Strategies that Make a Difference by Angela Stockman

Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall drawing on the latest research in neuroscience, psychology, and evolutionary biology, tells us what it means to be a storytelling animal and explains how stories can change the world for the better. Humans live in landscapes of make-believe. We spin fantasies. We devour novels, films, and plays. Even sporting events and criminal trials unfold as narratives. Yet the world of story has long remained an undiscovered and unmapped country. How Stories Make Us Human "Storytelling Animal" by Jonathan Gottschall - Book Review Book of the Week - BOTW - Season 4 Book 2 Buy the book on Amazon https://amzn.to/3omLyBl GET IT. READ :) #human #storytelling FIND OUT which HUMAN NEED is driving all of your behavior http://6-human-needs.sfwalker.com/ Human Needs Psychology + Emotional Intelligence + Universal Laws of Nature = MASTER OF LIFE AWARENESS https://www.sfwalker.com/master-life-awareness --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/sfwalker/message

“We are, as a species, addicted to story. Even when the body goes to sleep, the mind stays up all night, telling itself stories.” — Jonathan Gottschall, The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human Are you standing as the victim or the super hero? Stories are everything. Especially the ones we tell ourselves. We have so many stories that have been influenced by our life, our traumas, our actions, our ups, our downs. And we take these situations that we take into our lives as stories we live by. ‘I'm always busy' ‘I'm not good enough' ‘I can never finish things' ‘I always say yes then don't follow through' ‘I always leave things to the last minute' All stories we hold onto because your subconscious mind believes it is keeping you safe. So stories have two intentions: Protect Us Share knowledge  So let's take one of your stories. The time you took on that limiting belief… May you got up to speak about something in primary school and someone laughed at you. Therefore your story of that event = when I get up to speak, people laugh.  That story is protecting you, but actually it doesn't need to protect you anymore, because that was 5/10/15 years ago. So it's time we started re-writing that story.  You can decide here, whether you become the victim or the hero. The victim mentality usually looks like you believing that the world is against you, moaning about things you can actually change and not being proactive in your growth. The hero looks like, taking ownership of your life, your BS, your stories. Moving forward through them because you know you can. You are living life at CAUSE rather than EFFECT.  Living at 'CAUSE' means that YOU are decisive about creating what you want in life. CAUSE is bright and sunny – who wouldn't want to be there? So with all this in mind let's work through some steps… What story are you ready to let go of.  What is the pain of keeping this story and what's the pleasure of changing it.  Put pen to paper and write out your new story, as you as the HERO! What do you want the story to be instead. How can you bring this into reality RIGHT NOW? What thoughts do you need to stop listening to, what behaviours do you need to bring in, what are you ready to let go of, what are you ready to receive? How can you make this a new strategy in your life, what tangible things do you need to put in place in order to make this new shift in your story?

Selam fularsızlar. Nihayet blogdaki bu yazı dizisini genişletiyor ve gerçek ile hayal arasında bir podcast serisi haline getiriyorum. Öykücülük, dinler tarihi, bilinç felsefesi, bilimkurgu edebiyatı ve teknoloji. Eşlik etmesi için ilgili yazı dizisi: https://fularsizentellik.com/simulasyon-teorisi ..Bölüm Sponsoru: GoDaddyGoDaddy Link.Bölümler:(00:30) Giriş müziği: Behiye Aksoy, Bir Garip Yolcu.(01:00) Dreamtime: 10 yıllık kıta tarihi.(01:25) Gılgamış Destanı.(03:00) Occam'ın Usturası.(03:30) Güzel hikayelerin seçilmeleri. (Film: Life of Pi).(05:00) Poetika, Aristo.(05:30) Hikaye kalıpları. (Kitap: The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories. Özeti).(07:35) Westworld: Tema, ana fikir, olay örgüsü ve karakter. (Makale linki) .(09:30) Mad Men: The Carousel.(11:30) Johnnie Walker - The Man Who Walked Around The World.(12:00) Trump'ın öyküsü: Tehdit, canavar, kurban, kahraman. (Haber linki).(13:20) Simülasyon takılıyor: Deja Vu(15:35) Homo Sapiens vs Homo Fictus (Kitap: The Storytelling Animal)(16:00) Yalan söyleyen hayvanlar. (Makale linki).(16:45) Zihinsel senkronizasyon / neural coupling. (TED konuşması linki).(17:55) Memetics.(18:20) Medyanın etkisi: Ellen skandalı.(20:00) Eğitim simülasyonları ve audience surrogate. (21:15) Analoji (Video: Analogy as the Core of Cognition).(21:50) Öykcülüğün evrimsel avantajı. (İlgili blog yazısı: Bir Evrim Hikayesi, Bir Hikayenin Evrimi).(23:00) "En akıllı sapienslerin değil, en iyi öykü anlatan fictusların torunlarıyız."(24:00) Çizgiler ve üçgenlerden oluşan hikayeler. (TEDx konuşması: The storytelling animal: Jonathan Gottschall).(25:10) Sinema eğlence sektöründe midir? (26:20) Patreon teşekkürleri.Çıkış müziği: Zeki Müren, Rüyalarda Buluşuruz.Kapak Resmi: The Garden of Eden With the Fall of Man, 1617. Elmayı yiyen insanlar değil, en soldaki maymun. İnsanın sabırsızlığını ve açgözlülüğünü temsil ediyor. En sağdaki devekuşu ise hiçbir şeyi temsil etmiyor, photobomb yapmış.Patreon: Aylık veya senelik destek. https://www.patreon.com/imTolstoyevski .Kitap: Safsatalar Ansiklopedisi. https://fularsizentellik.com/safsatalaransiklopedisi .

Hello friends! Change of pace today! Meet Jakub Ferencik, author of upcoming debut book titled “Up in the Air: Christianity, Atheism, & the Global Problems of the 21st Century”. Jakub just arrived in Slovakia, his homeland, to weather this COVID storm and we catch up on his travels, background and interests before taking a deeper dive. We explore where the inspiration to write came from and what he hopes to accomplish. Join us on this epistemological adventure in the fight against certainty. Topics: Christianity, blogging, human connection, values & epistemology, the reality of nuances and the bypassing of reality in political discourse, reducing polarization, morality, the thought exercise of defending "the opposition", drawing lines where empathy ends, the discomfort of preaching radical vulnerability vs. human rights battles, going beyond the self-affirming echo chambers, progress and regress, the meaning of life, the experience of suffering, mindfulness and guilt, social taboos and many more light topics. Reference: Chris Erickson's (from Ep. 9) The Poetics of Fear: A Human Response to Human Security, Jonathan Gottschall's The Storytelling Animal, Stephen Fry quote mentioned: "I believe one of the greatest human failings is to prefer to be right than to be effective." More from Jakub at: IG @jakub.ferencik.official, medium.com/@jakubferencik, Twitter @JakubFerencik and watch out for the book this fall! Shout out to the Vancouver Podcast Community! Thanks so much for listening. As always, feedback is welcome as I am but a human in progress. The schedule might start to change for next few episodes as my work life begins again, but stories will always find their way here. Because stories are all we have. I love you. C. xo --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/runningwildwithchristine/support

In this episode I talk to Dr. Caitlin Kight, Senior Academic Developer and SciComm expert, about storytelling in research communication. We specifically discussion the chapter ‘Explanation' in the book TED Talks: The Official TED Guide to Public Speaking, which introduces a range of rhetorical devices to engage your audience and explain tough concepts. During the podcast we discuss: TED Talks: The Official TED Guide to Public Speaking by Chris Anderson My audio recording of the chapter ‘Explanation', available to University of Exeter staff and students The Science of Storytelling by Will Storr The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall You can find Caitlin on twitter @specialagentCK, and on YouTube for lots of online learning contact about research communication. Music credit: Happy Boy Theme Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/   Podcast transcript   1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Hello and welcome to R, D and the In betweens 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:31,000 I'm your host, Kelly Preece, and every fortnight I talk to a different guest about researchers development and everything in between. 3 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode. It's Kelly here. 4 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:43,000 And I'm delighted today to be joined by my colleague, Dr. Caitlin Kight, who is an academic, developer and science communication expert. 5 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:50,000 And today we're going to talk about research, communication and storytelling, but specifically a chapter from the book. 6 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:56,000 Ted Talks by Chris Anderson, which is all about explaining tough concepts. 7 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:03,000 So, Caitlin, you happy to introduce yourself? I am Dr. Caitlin Kight from the academic development team. 8 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:11,000 And I am someone who has been involved with communication and education for pretty much my whole life. 9 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,000 So I have been in the area of science communication. 10 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:21,000 Perhaps most recently I've written books and magazine articles and done public speaking. 11 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:28,000 So I have a general interest in communicating to non academic audiences. 12 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:35,000 So to start off with, Caitlin and I are going to give our key takeaways or key summaries of the extract, 13 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:42,000 which was the chapter on explanation and what we think are the really important things to take forward as a researcher. 14 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:48,000 So I'll give I'll start us off. So for me, even though the chapter is good, 15 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:57,000 explanation is really about storytelling and storytelling is one of those things that I talk about all the time in relation to every form of research, 16 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:08,000 communication, whether it's tweeting about your research or blogging or podcasting or writing up a thesis chapter or giving a conference presentation. 17 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:16,000 It's all about storytelling, because when we're communicating our research, we are constructing it for an audience in some shape or form. 18 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:24,000 For me, one of the things that I was thinking about was having a bit of a flashback where there's quite a lot of discussion about the very clever 19 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:31,000 techniques that people employed and how they had done something in order to leave the audience thinking a thing or wondering a thing, 20 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:36,000 and then how that was brought to a close or built upon. 21 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,000 And I was thinking about how when I studied English quite extensively. 22 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:46,000 So my mom was an English teacher and for a long time I thought I was going to also go into literature. 23 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:57,000 So I did a lot of English study. And when you're doing literary analysis and interpretation, I think you become convinced that what you are seeing, 24 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:02,000 the patterns that you're finding are things that the author deliberately put in place. 25 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,000 There's some really deep meaning and some metaphor in it all. Isn't that clever? 26 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,000 And then actually, you find out later on that the person never intended that. 27 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:16,000 And we do, in fact, have authors that are still living who said, nope, that is not what I meant in that place. 28 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,000 And I think that we do that with a lot of stuff. 29 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,000 We find our own meanings and lots of things. 30 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:30,000 And so when I was listening to all the descriptions of the very clever stuff that these speakers were doing, 31 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,000 I thought, how much of that is really intentional? How deliberate are all of these decisions? 32 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:43,000 And I do think that often when you are preparing communication, that there are some deliberate choices and there always should be deliberate choices. 33 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:48,000 But I also think that a lot of people have a sort of an intuition. 34 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:54,000 And I have a friend who works in the press and public relations, 35 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:59,000 and he often talks about how everyone is good at storytelling because we do it when 36 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,000 we're kids grow up telling stories and we often stop doing it as we get older. 37 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:09,000 But actually, we do all have this kind of latent untapped potential, even if we aren't using it. 38 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:17,000 And so perhaps some of the time we get in our own way and actually we just need to kind of let go and let those creative juices flow. 39 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:24,000 And I certainly find that I do this when I'm writing. Often I think I'm going to start off with a certain goal. 40 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,000 Here's my certain structure and then something else entirely comes out. And I actually really like that. 41 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:36,000 And so all of this is to say that I think. All of what you said about the structure is really important in those techniques. 42 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,000 It's really important to be aware of those possibilities, 43 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:47,000 but also to kind of set certain expectations aside when you approach your own communication and just. 44 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,000 Go with the flow and see what comes out. 45 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:54,000 And then your mind will pull the right ones out to the right techniques, the right methods when you need them, 46 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,000 and something new and different might emerge and you just never know when you start. 47 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:06,000 I think that's really important. And like you say, it's not about kind of it's not a tick list of if you've got a metaphore and you've got an example 48 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:12,000 and you've got this you've got a great you've got a great explanation or great form communication. 49 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:17,000 And it's about figuring out what works for a particular topic. 50 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,000 And particularly, you know, the thing that I liked about this chapter, even though, 51 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:28,000 you know, it's for TED talks, which aren't always research based talk. It's talking about kind of explaining difficult concepts, 52 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:34,000 which I know when we talk about research communication and we talk about some of these things about storytelling, 53 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,000 people who say to me, oh, yeah, but, you know, I can't oversimplify it. 54 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:46,000 And it it's not about oversimplification. It's about actually that fundamental thing, which is in the chapter. 55 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,000 And I've been listening as an audio book, too, will storr's the science of storytelling. 56 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,000 And it really emphasises what you're saying, 57 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:59,000 that actually storytelling is such a fundamental part of the way we've developed and evolved as human beings. 58 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,000 You know, it's a very particular part or capability of our brains. 59 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:10,000 And we do it in all aspects of our life, but we don't necessarily think that that's what we're doing. 60 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,000 Well, I think that that that links to another element that really stood out for me. 61 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:26,000 And I forget exactly how it was phrased in the passage that you read, but it reminded me of a similar sentiment that I saw at some point online. 62 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,000 It's one of those things where you come across it on Twitter or something and you save it because you think all that's a really good point. 63 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:39,000 And this person was basically saying that the whole point of going out and and giving a public lecture, 64 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 let's say a lot of a lot of people who do that, 65 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:48,000 there is a bit of an ego trip involved and they want to make sure that when they're standing up there in front of everyone, 66 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:55,000 that they sound smart and that they look smart and that they do a good job so they can walk away feeling like everyone admires me now. 67 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,000 And actually, what's what's more important and I think teachers do this as well, 68 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,000 like it's inevitable that you do kind of it's hard to shut out your ego if for no other reason. 69 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,000 They just don't want to make a fool of yourself. 70 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:13,000 But what you really want to be up there doing is completely not thinking about yourself and in fact, thinking and the opposite, 71 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:19,000 thinking of the audience and trying to get the audience to walk away, thinking, man, I am brilliant. 72 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:26,000 And and the whole thing is that you can stand up there and say super fancy words that nobody 73 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:33,000 gets or you can find a really clever way of saying something that everyone understands. 74 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,000 But that understanding is something that like opens up the universe to people and suddenly they 75 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:42,000 see all these connections and it changes the way they perceive life and they feel amazing. 76 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,000 And I think that when you walk out of there feeling amazing because you've had a mental connection, 77 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:53,000 you are at the same time feeling extremely grateful to the person that helped you get that. 78 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,000 And so I think that inevitably the one will kind of allow the other to follow. 79 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:06,000 But it really is about helping other people to make those connections rather than trying to elevate yourself in some fashion. 80 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:12,000 Yeah, I agree. And I think when I talk about academic writing and, you know, 81 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:19,000 when I teach about literature reviews or reading and we have these kind of very honest conversations of actually reading, 82 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:24,000 academic work can be really tough sometimes because there was certainly this historical 83 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,000 tradition where we articulate ourselves in the most complicated way possible, 84 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,000 using as much jargon as possible to look as clever as possible. 85 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:41,000 And thankfully, we are sort of slowly shifting away from that and writing in a way that's more accessible to everybody, because the reality is. 86 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Actually, even if we are schooled in that discipline, 87 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:52,000 we can read journal articles in it and still not understand or have to read a paragraph several times to really understand what it means. 88 00:08:52,000 --> 00:09:02,000 And it's just not good communication. It's not like you say that's about our ego and about making ourselves sound clever rather than. 89 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Actually communicating and actually promoting understanding in others. 90 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:16,000 And you're not going to have any impact with your research. Unless you're doing that. 91 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:25,000 Absolutely. And I think that I think that some of that ties in with the broad category of rhetorical techniques. 92 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,000 So these things that you mentioned already, for example, the use of metaphors, 93 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,000 I think some people think that, you know, they're going to cheapen something. 94 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:39,000 If if they do have to liken A to B rather than talking about A directly. 95 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:44,000 And it's that kind of dumbing down that you mentioned earlier. 96 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:50,000 But actually, I think that there's something really satisfying in learning a variety of rhetorical techniques 97 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,000 and having that little bank of things in your brain and then figuring out just the right one. 98 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:00,000 You know, is it that I'm going to start off this talk by asking a question? 99 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:07,000 Is it that I'm going to start off by telling people that they don't know anything and I'm going to tell them everything now and like, you know, 100 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:17,000 up in their expectations and all those things that you mentioned in the passage where it was about kind of leaving people in a cliff-hanger. 101 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Confusing them deliberately so that you get everything back up, so it's all those things. 102 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:26,000 I don't think we're really taught that so much in school anymore. And, you know, we used to be taught rhetoric in the classroom. 103 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:33,000 And that doesn't really happen. And so those were things where you do have to undertake that kind of literary analysis that I mentioned earlier. 104 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:41,000 You do have to deliberately look for those things and find them. And then you have to think, when are these going to be actually applicable? 105 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,000 When are they going to help? 106 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:50,000 And then you have to not be afraid of using them, because then it's in a sense, I think some people think, well, that's a bit manipulative. 107 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:55,000 It's like showmanship. It's not really genuine. It's not really, you know, researched. 108 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:02,000 It's not really teaching. I'm getting up there and I'm kind of performing a little bit. But actually, that's that is a part of communicating. 109 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,000 That's often a part of storytelling as well. It's setting the stage. 110 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,000 There is a bit of theatricality and I don't see anything wrong with that. 111 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:17,000 It doesn't cheapen anything. And at the end of the day, if people are therefore understanding. 112 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Well, I was just going to say that I think when we talk about stories, often people feel uncomfortable with the word story. 113 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:33,000 Right. It sounds like fiction. It sounds like it's not the truth. But really, when we're talking about stories, we're talking about narratives. 114 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,000 And the word narrative just indicates this is there's a temporal progression here. 115 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,000 You know, there are things that are happening in a certain order. 116 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:46,000 And really, if there are all sorts of things that we've been doing with narrative over time, 117 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,000 you mentioned will storr's book the science of storytelling? 118 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:56,000 And there's another one that I'd recommend called the Storytelling Animal, which which is by Jonathan Gottschall. 119 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:07,000 And books like that talk a lot about how our brains perceive and store information in narrative form for obvious evolutionary reasons. 120 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:15,000 We need to we need to know what prompted the lion to jump out of the bush at us so that we cannot do that again or whatever the situation was. 121 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,000 So this these are things we pay attention to. We remember them really well. And so for thousands of years, that's how we learnt. 122 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:31,000 We told stories. And if you think about things like fables and myths, you know, we had these stories that were specifically designed to. 123 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:39,000 Add a whole lot of information together and tie it up in little packets so that we could keep all of our human knowledge. 124 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,000 The sum total of everything we knew as a culture in our brains. 125 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:48,000 And that is a really important thing to do. 126 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,000 And obviously you need to pass that information on. 127 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:57,000 And really, these are these fables and myths and these memorable stories. 128 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:03,000 These are things that are fundamentally really important in an all of the tasks that we do. 129 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:13,000 And I think it's all about. Relating various lessons to our own lives and who we are as people to what we want to achieve, to how we can do that. 130 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,000 Either working alone or as a community. 131 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:23,000 And so something suddenly that starts off sounding like entertainment becomes kind of essentially basic and a baseline, 132 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:29,000 really foundational part of just being a person and being alive in society. 133 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:35,000 And I think that that's part of the thing that does help connect all of our research to our 134 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,000 everyday lives is that actually there are lessons to be drawn out of every single thing. 135 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,000 And we can use those lessons in unexpected ways. 136 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:51,000 And we've been doing that for thousands of years. To me, that feels really exciting, like you're actually a part of the kind of human continuum. 137 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,000 If you engage in this exchange of knowledge in this way. Exactly. 138 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:05,000 And I mean, things like you say about, you know, there's almost a sort of looking down on a sense of performativity and showmanship in it. 139 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:11,000 And this notion of entertainment. But actually, you know, let's look at our modern world and let's look at how we learn. 140 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:16,000 We learn through entertainment. I mean, how many people watch Blue Planet? 141 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:22,000 How many people have changed their habits and the amount of plastic they use as a result of Blue Planet, 142 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:30,000 which some of our researchers at Exeter were involved in? I remember seeing a really interesting article once about the Sunday night drama, 143 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,000 Call the Midwife, where they had an episode about female genital mutilation. 144 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:43,000 And it actually showed that there were more Google searches and people finding out more information about FGM as a result 145 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:51,000 of it being featured on an episode of call The Midwife than when the BBC ran a documentary specifically about it. 146 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,000 And it was a really interesting thing that said, actually, 147 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:59,000 it's the important thing here was the medium through which the message got through and the medium was, 148 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:08,000 you know, Sunday night entertainment essentially. But all of our entertainment is embedded with those kind of. 149 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,000 Messages, whether they're about history, whether about morality. 150 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,000 I mean, that's how you know, how we're taught the difference between good and bad as the kids. 151 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:23,000 those fairy tales and those myths and fables, you know, you go all the way back to Aesop's Fables. 152 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,000 And all of the messages about the ways in which we act in the world that are embedded. 153 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Within those simple, really simple stories. And so I think, yeah, I agree, it's sometimes we. 154 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,000 We look down on the notion of performing and the notion of entertainment, 155 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:49,000 whereas actually we forget how much we learn through that medium and we're socially conditioned for that aren't we. 156 00:15:49,000 --> 00:16:00,000 I want to come back to this idea of the curse of knowledge because. It's that I think this is where the real challenge lies is. 157 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:05,000 OK. We've got all of these tools that we can use to promote understanding. But we are left with knowledge. 158 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000 And how do how do we take that step back? 159 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:16,000 How do we begin thinking from our audiences perspective rather than ours, to kind of break down what we're trying to say? 160 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:25,000 The different concepts we're articulating and creating those. What Chris Anderson calls in the TED talks, book the building blocks. 161 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:32,000 That get people to a central idea. And for me, in my own experience. 162 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:40,000 But that really is where the challenge lies, because once I once I can take a step back from that and I know what I need to say. 163 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:48,000 We have these range of tools. That can be adopted to say it, but how how do you get past that kind of knowledge? 164 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,000 Whenever you got to that point in the passage? My immediate reaction was, oh, well, I don't have this problem. 165 00:16:54,000 --> 00:17:02,000 I'm actually really good at this. And as soon as I had that thought, I thought, wow, what am I just you know, I've just convinced myself. 166 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:07,000 And that's exactly what everyone does, right? They convince themselves that, you know what they're doing. 167 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:16,000 But what it made me think of was an element that I recently added to a communications workshop that I run where I was trying to get people to think 168 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:26,000 about the different sorts of audiences that they talked to and how just kind of intuitively they often I think most people do to some extent, 169 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,000 they will often start adapting how they're describing their resources that are talking to these different audiences. 170 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:40,000 So my research was as a scientist, which is what I used for my example in the workshop, it was really interdisciplinary. 171 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:47,000 And so I would often find myself talking to different researchers from different disciplines as I was asking about different subjects. 172 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:54,000 And for each of those researchers, I had to describe my work in a completely different way so that I could extract the knowledge that I needed 173 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,000 from them while not confusing them with all the extra stuff that had nothing to do with their field. 174 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:05,000 And then at some point, I kind of noticed that I was doing that. And then I realised that it was the same sort of thing I was doing when I would 175 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:12,000 talk to peers in my programme who weren't necessarily doing my research. 176 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,000 But, you know, they're kind of generally in the same field. 177 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:22,000 And it was the same thing I was doing when I would talk to my parents or to people I might meet at a conference and so on. 178 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:29,000 And once I became aware of the different choices that I was making, 179 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:36,000 it suddenly became actually much easier to know how to actively make those choices on purpose in the future. 180 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:44,000 So there were certain phrases that I might use or not use, or if I use them, I would immediately define them. 181 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:51,000 There were certain elements that I just wouldn't even talk about or others that I would emphasise much more. 182 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,000 So it's really, you know, what's there, what's not there. How are you describing it? 183 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:01,000 How are you balancing out? What what is it exactly that story that you're telling? 184 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,000 And I think it's really all about just not necessarily being empathetic, 185 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:15,000 but just being really mindful of what it is that people are getting confused about what it is they're asking you to clarify. 186 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:23,000 When are they squinting and throwing their brow? And, you know, we probably won't get it right the first time, but we do this lots of times. 187 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,000 And so it's really paying attention over all of those different iterations and collecting 188 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:34,000 all those little techniques so that you can use them on purpose next time around. 189 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,000 It it it's kind of responding to the fact that that's not really working for that person, 190 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,000 obviously that's a very clear dialogue, but it's what we do in a teaching room. 191 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:50,000 You know, it's what makes people good teachers is you're observing your. 192 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Audience or your classroom, and you you can tell from those furrowed brow. 193 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:02,000 But from body language and from, you know, more ephemeral things like kind of energy and atmosphere, 194 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:10,000 how things are going down and whether or not you're bringing in bringing the class with you, holding their hand or whether you've let them go. 195 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:18,000 And you do change that and switch that up in the moment and find different ways to articulate things in different ways to explain things. 196 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Yeah. I agree, and I think that's actually one of the things I was considering as you were reading that passage was 197 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:33,000 how important it is where we can to actively get a bit of information about our audience in advance. 198 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000 And this is not always possible. Absolutely. 199 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:41,000 If you're doing a public event and it's just, you know, whoever is walking by is going to come over and listen. 200 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:48,000 You don't know what they already know. You have to take a stab in the dark or kind of go for a lowest common denominator or whatever the cases. 201 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:54,000 But there are often times where we do have the ability to send out a little survey or 202 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,000 at the very beginning of a talk to ask for a show of hands or something like that. 203 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:06,000 And even just a couple of those little opportunities can make a huge difference because suddenly, you know, there are a set example in the bit. 204 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,000 You read about the the writer who didn't know what natural selection was. 205 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,000 So you can really easily you can say show of hands. 206 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:23,000 Who has heard of this or does everyone feel that they can, you know, apply that knowledge or define it for me? 207 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,000 And just knowing that little bit would make a huge difference, 208 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:33,000 because you could either assume some understanding of evolution or you would take a step back and and go through the description of it. 209 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:39,000 And having that to orient you at the very beginning can be really helpful. 210 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:45,000 And this is why when I'm giving talks where possible and again, if you're doing a TED style thing, this might not work. 211 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:52,000 But I like to have hidden slides, whether that's kind of as I go or at the very end that I can pull up if I need to. 212 00:21:52,000 --> 00:22:01,000 So that if there is a particular concept that's a stumbling block either in the middle of things or after when I'm being when I'm answering questions, 213 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,000 I can pull that up and say, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't cover it before, but here it is now. 214 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:11,000 I think that's really important. And that really brings us back to that notion of what the building blocks are. 215 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:18,000 Yes. And I think we can we can use our own experience with as well as a source of inspiration. 216 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:24,000 And this perhaps kind of relates to the the other theme of the chapter, which was thinking about simplification. 217 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:32,000 But I was thinking about how if if you can be empathetic to your audience and place yourself in their shoes and think, 218 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000 what was it like when I first started learning this thing, you know, what? 219 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,000 What were my stumbling blocks? What were the terms? I didn't understand. 220 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000 What was the threshold concept, if you like? 221 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:49,000 What was the thing that I learnt that suddenly opened my eyes and allowed me to access everything else that linchpin. 222 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:58,000 So I think that when you can try to. Just reverse the clock a little bit and see through early your eyes. 223 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Then that can help you to then think about how to pitch it for your audience. 224 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,000 And I think that one of the things that's really interesting about that, well, 225 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,000 especially in science, I'm not sure the extent to which this happens in other disciplines. 226 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:19,000 But when we're taught about things in science, often we get something that's incredibly watered down because the truth is insanely complex. 227 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,000 And so when we learn about replication, for example, you know, 228 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:29,000 with this this really simple concept of, oh, yes, the cell is one cell and then it becomes two cells. 229 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:34,000 And that keeps going until you have a whole human body and that, you know, that's it. 230 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:42,000 And then suddenly you start finding out about mitosis versus meiosis and then you find out about t RNA and MRSA. 231 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,000 Your mind is blown and you think, well, why wasn't I told all of these things before? 232 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:55,000 Because each time I'm having to completely break apart my knowledge and reassemble it, it's very confusing. 233 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,000 Like, why didn't you just dive straight into that really complex thing, 234 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:05,000 but you can't dive straight into that complex thing because it's too many parts and it will overwhelm people. 235 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,000 So it is really important to think about how do people learn, 236 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,000 what are the bits that they need at certain times and then just to focus on those things. 237 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,000 And if they want more, they can go find more or they can talk to you later. 238 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:25,000 But no one is going to take all of that in. They might hear it, but they're not going to learn it. 239 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:32,000 Yeah, and I think that that's one of the really important things about thinking about the difference between a presentation and, 240 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:39,000 you know, a journal article or something we communicate in writing is the level of detail and complexity that we can represent. 241 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,000 It's very different because people are taking them in completely differently. 242 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:53,000 You know, you can read something and you can pause and you can, you know, look a word up or look a term up or a theory or you can take it, 243 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,000 you know, take a break and let a mull over an idea whereas in a presentation. 244 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:05,000 It's all got to come right now. It's now or never. 245 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Thank you so much, Caitlin, for a fascinating and illuminating conversation, all about storytelling and explaining tough concepts. 246 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:24,000 I'm going to put links in the show, notes to all the resources Caitlin and I shared in this episode, as well as where you can find Caitlin online. 247 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:56,042 And that's it for this episode. Don't forget to, like, rate and subscribe and join me next where I'll be talking to someone else about researchers, development, and everything in between  

“We are, as a species, addicted to story. Even when the body goes to sleep, the mind stays up all night, telling itself stories.” Jonathan Gottschall, author of The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human Our imaginations have been captured by the many stories we see and hear on a daily basis. We imagine ourselves in Script's song, on our way to the Hall of Fame. We imagine ourselves as Tom Brady, married to a supermodel and winning the Superbowl. We hope to experience the wealth and power promised by The Secret or the meaning and fulfillment of The Purpose Driven Life. Literary critic, George Steiner, wrote, “ours is the long day's journey of the Saturday, between suffering, aloneness, unutterable waste on the one hand and the dream of liberation, of rebirth on the other.” Aslan goes farther than Sherlock’s or Schindler’s sacrifices for those they loved. Edmund had betrayed his actual blood brothers and sisters whom he truly did love. He sold out an entire kingdom for nothing more than a truffle. But Aslan chose a path sure to lead him to an undignified death on behalf of someone who had betrayed him and the people he loved. Elevating others over self, helping others to achieve more even if it means we achieve less, valuing every human equally simply because they are human, fighting the good fight – these are stories that touch on the most popular of all Hollywood themes - “Love Conquers All.” Changing character happens as the listeners imagine themselves in the stories being told. I have a request from my daughters, that you who pursue your dream to change the world through art and entertainment will be careful to tell stories that they will be better for having imitated. parentspriestsgenerals.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dano-jukanovich/support

“We are, as a species, addicted to story. Even when the body goes to sleep, the mind stays up all night, telling itself stories.” Jonathan Gottschall, author of The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human Our imaginations have been captured by the many stories we see and hear on a daily basis. We imagine ourselves in Script's song, on our way to the Hall of Fame. We imagine ourselves as Tom Brady, married to a supermodel and winning the Superbowl. We hope to experience the wealth and power promised by The Secret or the meaning and fulfillment of The Purpose Driven Life. Literary critic, George Steiner, wrote, “ours is the long day's journey of the Saturday, between suffering, aloneness, unutterable waste on the one hand and the dream of liberation, of rebirth on the other.” Aslan goes farther than Sherlock’s or Schindler’s sacrifices for those they loved. Edmund had betrayed his actual blood brothers and sisters whom he truly did love. He sold out an entire kingdom for nothing more than a truffle. But Aslan chose a path sure to lead him to an undignified death on behalf of someone who had betrayed him and the people he loved. Elevating others over self, helping others to achieve more even if it means we achieve less, valuing every human equally simply because they are human, fighting the good fight – these are stories that touch on the most popular of all Hollywood themes - “Love Conquers All.” Changing character happens as the listeners imagine themselves in the stories being told. I have a request from my daughters, that you who pursue your dream to change the world through art and entertainment will be careful to tell stories that they will be better for having imitated. parentspriestsgenerals.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dano-jukanovich/support

Prior to social distancing, Todd joined me in my home to talk about Jonathan Gottschall’s book “The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human.” Today will be the best of the second half of our discussion. You can find out more about “In the Telling” at lizzylizzyliz.comOr check out the “In the Telling” Podcast channel on YouTube for bonus content. Theme music by Gordon VetasSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/LizChristensen)

Between the Lines is an "In the Telling" series where the host and guest talk about a storytelling, arts or entertainment industry nonfiction book.Guest Todd Wente joins host Liz Christensen to talk about Jonathan Gottschall’s book “The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human.” Recorded prior to this time of "social distancing," this interview has not been published until now, a completely fortuitious circumstance. This is the perfect time to discuss Gottschall's unified theory of storytelling, how we all need story, how stories contribute and perpetuate our humanity, and to listen to Todd's takes, and even his tall tales, about how stories matter.Episode Extra, Josh Curtis beautifully shares his thoughts about what he is doing with art and entertainment while working from home and social distancing. You can find out more about “In the Telling” at lizzylizzyliz.comOr check out the “In the Telling” Podcast channel on YouTube for bonus content. Theme music by Gordon VetasIn the Telling is hosted and produced by Liz ChristensenSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/LizChristensen)

CTW S2E06 - The Writing Life, with Jennie Nash   Jennie Nash is the daughter of a writer whose books she knew were read by the world. She wanted to be a writer herself, so when her 4th-grade class published a book of poetry, Jennie wrote poem after poem. When she saw her first by-line, she was hooked and continued to take on a writing career years later. Today, Jennie has published a total of eight books. Her works include three novels, such as The Threadbare Heart, and three memoirs, including The Victoria’s Secret Catalog Never Stops Coming And Other Lessons I Learned From Breast Cancer, which has sold more than 100,000 copies in print.     Jennie combined her love for storytelling with helping people achieve their goals and founded Author Accelerator, a strategic book coaching service for writers. For over 12 years, Jennie has helped clients earn national book awards and land deals with publishers such as Schribner, Simon & Schuster, and Hachette. She also taught in UCLA’s Extension Writer’s Program for 13 years and is currently an instructor at CreativeLive, an online platform that hosts thousands of classes and courses by professional creatives.   Jennie joins me today to discuss writing, getting published, and the power of storytelling. She reveals the things publishers and literary agents look for in a book. She explains why writers write and the unique ways they live in the world. She explains how play is an essential aspect of creativity. She also shares how art helped her during a time of sickness and why she decided to become a writing coach.       “Writing gets better at as you age. The longer you live, the more stories and perspectives you have. Those things make you a better writer.” - Jennie Nash       This week on Coffee Table Wisdom:   Jennie’s advice to new writers The kinds of books publishers and literary agents look for Why writing and storytelling are powerful forces in our culture Why dystopian novels are currently selling a lot The writer’s unique way of living in the world How art and literature could be a healing experience Why Jennie chose to be a writing coach       Resources mentioned:   Where the Crawdads Sing by Delia Owens Wired for Story by Lisa Cron Story Genius by Lisa Cron The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall       Connect with Jennie Nash:   Jennie Nash Author Accelerator Author Accelerator on Twitter Author Accelerator on Facebook Jennie Nash on Instagram Jennie Nash on LinkedIn Jennie Nash on Twitter Jennie Nash on Facebook       Join the Revolution!   Thanks for tuning into the Coffee Table Wisdom podcast - the show that enlightens your body, mind, and spirit through ideas and musings from the worlds of health, psychology, spirituality, and art. If you enjoyed this episode, please head over to Apple Podcasts, subscribe to the show and leave your honest review.   Join the Revolution in Positive Aging by sharing your favorite episodes on social media. Don’t forget to visit my website and follow my Facebook Page for even more inspiring ideas and musings on positive aging.     Coffee Table Wisdom is produced by Auxbus. You can create your own great podcast - faster and easier - at Auxbus.com    

You need a great story to build a great company. And great stories are unwaveringly TRUE. No one embodies this principle more fully than Scott Harrison, founder of Charity: Water. A master storyteller, Scott built his nonprofit on 3 radical principles: (1) 100% of donations would go to water projects (not overhead) (2) Progress reports would be utterly transparent, sharing victories, defeats and even GPS coordinates of water wells (3) The brand’s storytelling would lead with hope instead of guilt, inspiring joyful participation without sacrificing honesty. Cameo appearance: Jonathan Gottschall (fellow at Washington & Jefferson College & author).

“The word ‘artist' is not applied to writers as readily as to musicians or sculptors or painters, because the medium in which they work – our language – is used by everyone without any particular thought or regard for economy or form. Language is the common drudge of every sort of experience and it does not enter the heads of most people to use it with any conscious skill or effectiveness.” “But the serious writer is an artist and language is his medium, and the way he employs it is of the greatest interest. Graham Greene has said that ‘creative art seems to remain a function of the religious mind,' and it is this quality of awareness of another world…” – Robertson Davies, The Merry Heart, p. 115 “When Cervantes invited a new generation of readers to follow his knight into the Sierra Morena, they discovered through their tears of laughter that they had entered a new world. For the writers and readers to come, the pages of a book could never again stand like foreign objects of wonder, to be admired from a distance. From now on, opening a book would mean stepping into a space more like one's own, a Sierra Morena next door instead of a mythical wood or mystic crag, and even those places of mystery or magic, from Never Never Land to Hogwarts, would always be places in which other versions of our own selves would go to for relief from the pressures, pain, or simply the boredom of our daily lives.” – William Egginton, The Man Who Invented Fiction, p. 136 “In my life as a writer I often remind myself – comfort myself – with what William Faulkner said about The Sound and the Fury. The whole novel, he claimed, hung on one image, the glimpse of a little girl's muddy underpants seen from the ground as she climbed a tree. How can an entire world spin off so small and incidental a hub? Can it be possible that Faulkner conceived his masterpiece from this thin, grubby moment?” “I imagine most writers of novels begin with such a fragment, a shard of experience so compelling, so troubling and unavoidable – always there, on the periphery of consciousness – that around it he or she must construct an elaborate world. This world, this novel, is not merely a container or a means of filing the image away but an attempt to make it comprehensible, and to guard its power.” – Kathryn Harrison, When Inspiration Stared Stoically from an Old Photograph “Fiction is usually seen as escapist entertainment… But it's hard to reconcile the escapist theory of fiction with the deep patterns we find in the art of storytelling… Our various fictional worlds are– on the whole– horrorscapes. Fiction may temporarily free us from our troubles, but it does so by ensnaring us in new sets of troubles– in imaginary worlds of struggle and stress and mortal woe.” – Jonathan Gottschall, The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human “Go, then – there are other worlds than these.” – Stephen King If you want us to see a different world, it will be your choice of tools that defines you. Oscar Wilde was a playwright. He put his words, like a ventriloquist, into the mouths of actors on the stage. http://wizardofads.org/partners/ (Ad writers,) screenwriters and novelists differ only in their ventriloquist's dummies, the masks they hide behind. Some ventriloquist's dummies are called “newscasters,” and they are no different than the actors in any other fiction. The question we must ask ourselves is, “Who is hiding behind that mask, and what imaginary world are they trying to sell us?” Roy H. Williams PS – At a 1962 dinner for 49 Nobel laureates, President John F. Kennedy quipped that the event was, “the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever gathered at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.” Thomas Jefferson was a famous hater of newspapers, though I...

Welcome to Amy Alkon's HumanLab: The Science Between Us, a weekly show with the luminaries of behavioral science. On this show, Dr. Jonathan Gottschall talks about his foray from bummed out adjunct English professor to the Mixed Marshall Arts world and his big cage fight -- along with the psychology driving violence and the fight rituals that actually contain it. His fascinating book we'll be discussing on the show: The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch. Join me and all my fascinating guests every Sun from 7-7:30 pm PT and 10-10:30 pm ET, here at blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher.Please support the show by buying my "science-help" book on the PROCESS of living with confidence, "Unf*ckology: A Field Guide to Living with Guts and Confidence."

Neil deGrasse Tyson gets inside the cage with Joe Rogan to explore the physics of fighting, mental and physical health, and the mysteries of the universe. Featuring comic co-host Sasheer Zamata, author and scholar Jonathan Gottschall, comedian Chuck Nice, and sport psychologist Dr. Leah Lagos. NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/fighting-philosophy-and-the-primal-mind-with-joe-rogan/ Photo Credit: Brandon Royal

When a mixed martial arts (MMA) gym moves in across the street from his office, Jonathan Gottschall sees a challenge and an opportunity. Pushing 40, out of shape, and disenchanted with his job as an adjunct English professor, part of him yearns to cross the street and join up. The other part is terrified.Gottschall eventually works up his nerve and starts training for a real cage fight. He's fighting not only as a personal test but also to answer questions that have intrigued him for years: Why do men fight? And why do so many seemingly decent people like to watch? Gottschall endures extremes of pain, occasional humiliation, and the incredulity of his wife to take us into the heart of fighting culture - culminating, after almost two years of grueling training, in his own cage fight.Gottschall's unsparing personal journey crystallizes in his epiphany, and ours, that taming male violence through ritualized combat has been a hidden key to the success of the human race. Without the restraining codes of the monkey dance, the world would be a much more chaotic and dangerous place.

Gather ‘round everyone, it’s story time! Neil deGrasse Tyson, world-renowned author Salman Rushdie, comic co-host Eugene Mirman, literary scholar Jonathan Gottschall, and literary neuroscientist Natalie Phillips investigate the history, science, influence, and future of storytelling.  NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/the-power-of-storytelling-with-salman-rushdie/ Photo Credit: Brandon Royal.

Welcome to Amy Alkon's HumanLab: The Science Between Us, a weekly show with the luminaries of behavioral science. On this show, Dr. Jonathan Gottschall talks about his foray from bummed out adjunct English professor to the Mixed Marshall Arts world and his big cage fight -- along with the psychology driving violence and the fight rituals that actually contain it. His fascinating book we'll be discussing on the show: The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch. Join me and all my fascinating guests every Sun from 7-7:30 pm PT and 10-10:30 pm ET, here at blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher.Please support the show by buying my "science-help" book on the PROCESS of living with confidence, "Unf*ckology: A Field Guide to Living with Guts and Confidence."

I was worried Thanksgiving dinner wouldn't be the same this year without Uncle Alfred. Every year for as long as I can remember, when the time came for each of us to name something we were thankful for, Uncle Alfred would tell his famous Story of the Shoes. “Your mother was six and I was nine when I had to cut the ends off my shoes to let my toes stick out. A year later, I couldn't get my foot in them at all. On really cold days, I'd wrap my feet in newspaper and bind it with brown twine. I always knew where to find the twine because the newspaperman would cut the bundles apart at Ninth and Pike every morning, right in front of Boscov's Department Store. One morning in late November I was looking at a pair of shoes in the window of Boscov's when I heard a woman's voice behind me say, “A penny for your thoughts.” I turned around and there she was, holding out a penny. You could buy penny candy in those days, so I took the penny and I told her the truth, even though I was horribly embarrassed. “I was asking God for a pair of shoes.” Her face fell a little when I said that, so I thought she was disappointed in my answer and wanted her penny back, so I dropped my eyes to the ground. That's when she lifted my chin with her fingertips and smiled. “What's your name?” she asked. “Alfred,” I answered. She held open the door to Boscov's with one hand and extended the other to me, “Come inside with me Alfred.” I had never been inside Boscov's. She sat me down in the shoe department, unwrapped the newspaper from my feet, and told the clerk to bring seven pairs of socks, all the same color. She put two pairs of socks on me, then told the clerk to fit me with the finest pair of work boots that money could buy, but fit them a little loose because I was obviously a growing boy. Standing up in those new boots, I felt six feet tall. She paid the clerk, then handed me the boot box that contained the other five pairs of socks. She shook my hand and said, “Happy Thanksgiving, Alfred, and Merry Christmas.” And then she began to walk away. That's when I was surprised to hear my own quavering voice ask, “Are you God's wife?” The beautiful lady turned and smiled, “No, baby doll, I'm Mrs. McGovern.” Uncle Alfred always finished his Story of the Shoes in exactly the same way. “I never saw Mrs. McGovern again, but I'll remember her for as long as I live.” And then he would wipe the tears from his cheeks. Uncle Alfred never married and he never left Reading, Pennsylvania. But he rose through the ranks to become a railroad executive and did very well for himself. But my Uncle Alfred also did good. For every year in late November, beginning when he was 17, Alfred would purchase a substantial new pair of shoes for as many poor children as he could afford. Hundreds of children a year. And every pair would be delivered with a note that said, “A Gift from Mrs. McGovern.” And now I must break your heart. I don't have an Uncle Alfred. “We are all very good at suspending our disbelief. We do it every day, while reading novels, watching television or going to the movies. We willingly enter fictional worlds where we cheer our heroes and cry for friends we never had.” – Marco Tempest, in his 2012 TED talk “Fiction is usually seen as escapist entertainment…But it's hard to reconcile the escapist theory of fiction with the deep patterns we find in the art of storytelling… Our various fictional worlds are– on the whole– horrorscapes. Fiction may temporarily free us from our troubles, but it does so by ensnaring us in new sets of troubles– in imaginary worlds of struggle and stress and mortal woe… Fiction also seems to be more effective at changing beliefs than nonfiction, which is designed to persuade through argument and evidence. Studies show that when we read nonfiction, we read with our shields up. We are critical and skeptical. But when we are absorbed in a story, we drop our intellectual guard.” – Jonathan Gottschall...

The door to immediate action is easily kicked open by the steel-toed boot of urgency.If you want people to take immediate action, you're going to need a credible shortage. A shortage of product. “Only 11 remain!” A shortage of time. “Sale ends Saturday at 6PM!” A shortage of capacity. “Only 128 seats are available!” Some kind of shortage. But smart marketers don't create a series of non-stop urgencies. Smart marketers create a bond with future customers. And you don't create a bond by crying wolf. You create a bond by telling a story. Do you want to inspire your customer? Inspirational stories are never about accumulation.They're about sacrifice.What have you sacrificed and why? Are you willing to tell that story? Scientific American published an essay on May 8, 2013, in which Jag Bhalla quotes Jonathan Haidt, author of The Righteous Mind, “The human mind is a story processor, not a logic processor. Everyone loves a good story; every culture bathes its children in stories.” The purpose of these stories is to engage and educate the emotions. Stories teach us character types, plots, and the social-rule dilemmas prevalent in our culture. Stories explain how the world works and help us understand who we are.“Research consistently shows that fiction does mold us. The more deeply we are cast under a story's spell, the more potent its influence. In fact, fiction seems to be more effective at changing beliefs than nonfiction, which is designed to persuade through argument and evidence. Studies show that when we read nonfiction, we read with our shields up. We are critical and skeptical. But when we are absorbed in a story, we drop our intellectual guard…” “We are, as a species, addicted to story. Even when the body goes to sleep, the mind stays up all night, telling itself stories. But why are humans storytelling animals at all? Why are we, as a species, so hopelessly addicted to narratives about the fake struggles of pretend people? Anthropologists have long argued that stories have group-level benefits. Traditional tales, from hero epics to sacred myths, perform the essential work of defining group identity and reinforcing cultural values.” – Jonathan Gottschall, The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human Stories are what shape and define a tribe.Make no mistake, people who bond with a brand are people who have joined a tribe. And that's a healthy thing. According to Professor Alison Gopnik, “other people are the most important part of our environment. In our ultra-social species, social acceptance matters as much as food.” * We include ourselves in dozens of tribes. Tribes of geography, school, sport, faith, music, nationality, art, hobby, history, family affiliation, hair color, age, gender, lifestyle, transportation, recreation, food, fashion, tattoos, facial hair and footwear. We buy what we buy to remind ourselves – and tell the world around us – who we are. Our purchases tell our story. Most ads are full of information. They don't really tell a story.Story = character + predicament + attempted extrication. “Stories the world over are almost always about people with problems,” writes Jonathan Gottschall. They display “a deep pattern of heroes confronting trouble and struggling to overcome. Stories give us feelings we don't have to pay full cost for.” Stories free us from the limits of our own direct experience and allow us to learn from the experiences of others. Online reviews are stories told by customers about their experiences. Testimonial ads are another type of story told by customers about their experiences. But we listen to these stories with a grain of suspicion as we seek to pierce the veiled motives of the storytellers. Propaganda is a story that represents itself to be the truth.We believe it only to the degree that we trust the storyteller. Entertainment is a story that doesn't represent itself to be the truth.If a story doesn't claim to

I was struck by one theme that kept appearing in the past 100 Business of Story episodes – How stories transport us. A true story well told connects emotionally and inspires. It moves people. Aligns teams. Connects with customers. Grows revenue. And will amplify your impact. [caption id="attachment_23298" align="aligncenter" width="600"] Image from a favorite Photoshop artists, James Popsys, who explored visual storytelling on the Business of Story podcast.[/caption] Thank you for listening to the Business of Story. I've enjoyed all of your wonderful notes about the impact the show and our guests have had on you. And how you have grown as storytellers to literally nudge the world in any direction you choose. You rock! Now, I want to up the ante, to go all in by refining, clarifying and focusing my own Business of Story story. To help you do the same in your business.  From episodes 102 and beyond, nothing in the Business of Story will make sense except in the light of connection: helping purpose-driven leaders like you clarify your story to grow revenue and amplify your impact in the world by connecting you with your audiences, and moving them to action, through the power of true business stories well told. This is my singular focus for the Business of Story, and it has taken me 100 episodes to finally arrive at this focus. Plus, a great deal of help from my good friend, Greg Head. More on that, and him, in a bit. What you’ll get out of this show: How to find and articulate the unique purpose that drives you and your organization. How to clarify that story with lots of examples and resources for you. How to use the impact you’ll make as the launching point for the epic growth of your organization. You see, after 100 amazing guests – story artists from around the world who have been on our show helping you craft and tell compelling stories that sell – this theme of igniting the growth of purpose-driven leaders through the power of story has expressed itself. I realized that some of my favorite episodes were with people whose personal stories were much larger than their brand story, and in fact, influenced the direction of their organizations. Like Vincent Stanley, for instance. He’s the Director of Philosophy for the outdoor retailer, Patagonia. He was one of my first guests back in July of 2015. And he talked about how Patagonia essentially invented story marketing in their first product catalogs when they opened in 1973. Their mission is to turn customers into activists to help protect our wilderness. A pretty important purpose, especially for an outdoor company. Another episode I refer to often is the one I did with Hollywood story consultant, Jen Grisanti. She wrote an amazing book called Change Your Story, Change Your Life. Jen not only teaches and coaches movie and TV screenwriters how to perfect their craft but also how to live into a bigger story. This episode explores the important question: “What is your personal dilemma connected to your professional pursuit?” What’s the conflict in your story and how does your brand help your customers overcome that conflict to get what they want? No conflict no story. How about the conflict around the stuff cramming your home? Michele and I are in the process of a move, and mucking out 30 years of stuff is a major pain in the ass. Brian Scudamore, the founder of 1-800-GOT-JUNK, joined to talk about how he grew the brand to become worth in the neighborhood of a quarter-billion dollars all on the premise that he is not in the junk business, but the leadership business that happens to haul junk. Now that’s a focused, purpose-driven business. I’ve learned that if you truly want to live into a bigger story for your personal and professional brand, then you must find a purpose greater than yourself to serve. The purpose of the Business of Story has always been to help people live into and prosper from their most powerful story. But that line is too vague for some people.  It ultimately comes down to helping leaders of purpose-driven organizations clarify their story of growing their revenue and amplifying their impact. I know I’m repeating myself from the top of the show, but I want to be crystal clear with you what this is all about. And, I want to underscore that it is critically important for you, too, to be “crystal clear” with your personal or professional brand story. Because if you’re not, you will drown in the sea of sameness that we all compete in. And I’ve found that when you get your brand story straight, everything else comes into alignment.  Everything else gets easier. You say “no” to more things and “yes” to the fewer, but the most important, things. My Origin Story Two years ago I was a total story geek. Ok, I still am. My goal for the first 100 episodes was to help you understand and appreciate the power of storytelling in your business and in your life so that you would become more intentional about it; connect with people at a deeper level; and advance your visions and mission further faster. I had the help of my friend Jay Baer at Convince & Convert who helped me produce and distribute my first year-and-a-half worth of shows with great people like Jess Ostroff of Don’t Panic Management. The past 20 or so shows have been produced by Brian Adoff of Riveting FM out of Philadelphia. He has brought a musician’s ear to the quality of the production and some terrific marketing insight as well. Thanks for that, Brian. Lisa Loeffler of Genuine Media has assisted me in the distribution and advertising for the show, as well as my speaking engagements: an invaluable part of my team. I can’t recommend these two enough if you need to build a virtual team. My focus has been on sharing how stories work, the architecture of epic stories, and how to use them in your business. If you’re an avid listener, then you probably know my story by now. So here’re the cliff notes… I’ve been in advertising for more than 30 years, ran my own agency for 20 years, and for the past 15 years, I have been steeped in business storytelling. My deep dive into brand storytelling began around 2004 when I noticed that our traditional advertising work wasn’t nearly as effective as it used to be. As I often say in my speaking engagements and workshops; “Brands used to own the influence of mass media, but now the masses are the media, and they are your brand storytellers. You and your brand must become the story maker.” One of my favorite examples of a brand doing this very thing is AirBnB. They do a heroic job of placing their customers – both their homeowners and guests – at the center of their brand story. Then they make it easy for them to share their stories. I love their tagline, Belong Anywhere. AirBnB is selling inclusion and freedom: two pretty dynamic concepts, and an especially powerful purpose, given this moment – and let’s hope it’s just a moment – in Trump time. By the way, have you seen Sweden’s latest story marketing campaign? The country just listed itself on AirBnB and its purpose is plain to see: "Explore the Freedom to Roam.”  Sure, they’re ultimately going after tourists, but they do it with such a beautiful purpose that plays to the sensibilities of reasonable and fun loving people. Take a listen, and then go to our show notes to see the video. Ok, so I digressed a bit. I get so excited when I come across smart story marketing. I was telling you my story about how I realized the impact you can have when you become an intentional storyteller: Telling stories on purpose. I learned that storytelling held the key to reconnecting with audiences, so I started studying everything I could find on the subject. It really started in 2006. Our middle son Parker went to film school at Chapman University in Orange, CA. I asked him to send me his textbooks when he was finished with them – after all, we were paying for them – so I could learn what Hollywood knew about captivating audiences through story. Plus, I suppose I wanted to vet this college education to see how Chapman prepared eager filmmakers to be competitive in the most competitive storytelling market in the world: Hollywood. I realize now that this was my creative right brain diving into storytelling. At the same time, our youngest son Caed had to undergo brain surgery to reduce swelling in his ventricles. During the run up to survey, Caed went through a battery of tests, and Michele and I read everything we could absorb about the brain and how it functions under the significant stress of encephalitis. One of the books I found, which has become my favorite on storytelling, is The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make us Human, by Jonathan Gottschall. In it, he explores the intersection of story structure with brain structure and how our minds yield helplessly to the suction of story. Jonathan became a long-distance friend of mine, has been kind enough to lecture twice to my students at Arizona State University, and he was also one of my first guests on the Business of Story podcast. In hindsight, I realized that I, too, was living at the intersection of right brain Hollywood storytelling and left brain story mechanics as I was learning from the journeys both of our sons were on. This is when I was introduced to Joseph Campbell and his universal story structure of The Hero’s Journey, and why it connects so powerfully with the deep reaches of our mind: the subconscious where our intuitive decisions are made that shape our beliefs and behaviors. Note: The creator of What makes a her0?, Matthew Winkler, joined us on the Business of Story podcast. Hear how he created one of the most watched videos in the TEDEd library. During this time between 2006 and 2010, I found myself at the crossroads of the neuroscience of storytelling – how we’re pre-wired from birth to make meaning through stories – with the architecture of stories – how to use them to connect with people on a very primal level and move them to action. Since then, our two boys are doing great. Caed is a healthy 23-year-old composer and producer of EDM, or Electronic Dance Music, and a DJ, and Parker is pursuing his dream of becoming a filmmaker in downtown Hollywood. He pays the bills as a sought after motion designer, and you can see his work in the new CBS game show, Candy Crush. Now that I was armed with the why and how of business storytelling, I created the Story Cycle system that is inspired by Campbell’s Hero’s Journey. Instead of his 17 steps, I’ve mapped it to 10 steps that any business can use for high-level brand story strategy development right down to tactical creative elements including TV spots, web user experience design, blog posts, print ads, sales presentations… you name it. [caption id="attachment_23305" align="alignright" width="300"] Download your DIY Brand Story workbook.[/caption] I was so excited to share with the world what I had learned, and the success we were having with our clients, that I began pursuing all of the brightest minds in storytelling to share their brilliance with you. To be totally honest, I was being self-serving, too, Because I get to learn right along with you with every episode. That alone makes all of the cost and effort of a podcast worth it. One of my early successes was having legendary screenwriting coach, Robert McKee, on the show. We had such a wonderful conversation, he returned for an encore performance. By the way, you will find links to each of the episodes I mention in our show notes. I first met McKee when I attended his four-day Story Seminar in the LAX Sheraton in 2010. Parker joined me. He was there to advance his filmmaking screenwriting chops, along with about 200 of his competitors, and I was there to learn what a marketer like me could learn about Hollywood storytelling to make our creative more impactful.   After the seminar, McKee invited me to his Connecticut home to interview him for my podcast. Now, this was not for the Business of Story, but for my very first flailing attempt at podcasting. I had never done one before and I showed up in his living room with my little Zoom recorder and my wits. I placed the recorder between me and him on the sofa, and away we went. For three friggin’ hours. He was so kind and generous with his knowledge on screenwriting and how we can use it in our businesses, and I was making it up and learning as I went. This remarkable experience underscores a fundamental premise that Joseph Campbell talks about when you follow your bliss, and by bliss, he means the authentic story you have the courage to live into. “When you follow your bliss, doors will open where there were only walls before.” – Joseph Campbell Robert McKee and his lovely wife Mia, open their home and their world to me. And for that, I will be forever grateful. You can still listen to that session, edited into ten 10-minutes segments on Soundcloud. If you don’t know the man and his work, all you have to do is watch this scene in the Spike Jonze’ movie, Adaptation, starring Nicholas Cage as struggling screenwriter, Charlie Kaufman. Actor Brian Cox portrays McKee as he responds to Kaufman’s question during, presumably, his famous Story seminar. Any questions? Ok, take a deep breath. Another one of my favorites was a guy who epitomizes the intersection of science and story, and that is Dr. Randy Olson. He is a Harvard Ph.D. Biologist who also graduated from the USC film school. Randy has produced three documentaries on the environment and climate change and has written three books to help scientist become better communicators through the power of storytelling. His latest book, Houston, We Have a Narrative: Why Science Needs Story, is my favorite scientific look at storytelling.  The book focuses on the And, But and Therefore construct to creating stories. It’s so simple and yet so powerful. I call it the DNA of story. I’m honored to say that Randy has become a good friend, and he’s been on my show twice. The first time talking about the ABT. And his most recent appearance was the day after the election. He dissected Trump’s narrative intuition and why he won the election because he out-storied the Democrats. “America used to be great. America is no longer great. I’ll make America great again.” Three acts. Set up, problem, resolution. One that may become the most successful use of the ABT of all time. Olson’s Trump episode is one of my most listened to from around the world. I even had some friends reach out to me in disgust suggesting that I was capitalizing on Trump’s victory for my own Business of Story gain by highlighting his narrative intuition. My response to them, and you if you feel the same way, is that you must understand the magic to combat the spell. Listen to all of Trump’s ramblings through the lens of the basal ABT structure, and you’ll get a whole new appreciation for how he hoodwinks his base, goes against reason and demolishes the Democrats. The Dems simply don’t know how to connect with America through a story. Olson’s purpose is to advance science by helping big thinkers connect with the rest of us. His vehicle happens to be the ABT, the DNA of story. Another of my favorite authors is Lisa Cron, who wrote Wired for Story: The Writer's Guide to Using Brain Science to Hook Readers from the Very First Sentence. Lisa came on the show to explore the art and science of storytelling to help you with your brand narratives. While Lisa’s book is about guiding fiction writers in writing the next epic novel, Lee Gutkind, the founder of Creative Nonfiction and author of several books including, You Can’t Make This Stuff Up: The Complete Guide to Writing Creative Nonfiction from Memoir to Literary Journalism, is the foremost authority on the art of sharing true stories well-told. These two approaches are important to brand storytelling because you want to tell true stories about how your product or service have empowered and leveled up your customers while using brain science to understand and appreciate how to craft and tell your stories.    Clarify your story, amplify your impact and simplify your life We’ve used the 10-step Story Cycle system to help Clinica Adelante reframe its brand story from a 30-year-old community health center to a national leader in sustainable healthcare, and they have grown by 300 percent in the past five years. Goodwill of Central Arizona has used or Story Cycle system to grow from 17 stories doing $24 million in annual sales in 2003 to nearly 100 stores doing north of $140 million in sales today, with the proceeds going to workforce development programs that help put a record number of Arizonans back to work. Their purpose? Good stuff, good work, Goodwill. Coca-Cola used our storytelling to launch an eco-driving program with its 60,000 fleet drivers and their staff in 2010. They double their expected gains in fuel efficiency in the first three months of the initiative. What do these three clients have in common? They all pursued a purpose greater than just selling products and services and making money. And they used intentional storytelling – telling stories on purpose – to achieve epic growth. That is the power of a purpose-driven organization over its traditional, status-quo competitor who focuses on the bottom line, short-term gains and investor returns over empowering the people and the communities it serves. Tell your stories on purpose That’s why now, as we move into our third year of producing the Business of Story podcast, our sole focus is to help leaders of purpose-driven organizations like yours clarify your story to grow revenue and amplify your impact. What we make is the proven Story Cycle system with tools and techniques to help you become an intentional storyteller. But what we make happen is helping you become a more powerful communicator, connect with audiences like you never have before, motivate and inspire people to action, and advance your mission, initiative or cause further, faster than you ever imagined. What we make happen is what drives our purpose: to help people live into and prosper from their most powerful stories. Learning moment: Are you telling brand stories about what you make, or what you make happen? Stories about the human impact you are having; how you are leveling them up. Stories about how you deliver on your ultimate brand purpose. You see, when you tell stories about what you make, your are immediately commoditizing yourself and your offering. You start to drown in the sea of sameness. But when you tell stories about what you make happen, then you will rise above the noise and be heard. Red Bull doesn’t sell you a highly addictive concoction of caffeine, taurine, and sugar. Their story Gives You Wings. Actually, the higher brand purpose was defined by its founder, Dietrich Mateschitz, when he started his company: “Red Bull gives wings to people and ideas.” Now isn’t that a bit more compelling than selling just an energy drink? It must be because Red Bull not only invented the category. They still own nearly half of the worldwide market for energy drinks. Let’s face it, without a good story that connects on a primal, visceral level with your audiences – making them truly feel something – then you’re just more noise in the cacophony of communication we all swim  – and drown – in. Without a focused story that clarifies the uniqueness, relevance, and urgency of your brand offering you will be marooned in the sea of sameness that we all encounter in this age of abundance. Your customers – just like my customers – simply have too many choices to choose from. What’s going to make you rise to the top of your food chain? Without a defined point to your story – a supreme focus on what you do better than anyone else buttressed by a compelling purpose – you will languish in the land of commoditization. In fact, declaring your number one position in the marketplace, what you do better than anyone else in terms of features and benefits, is your first step out of the primordial muck of commoditization. And your defined purpose is your lifeline. So I’m taking my own advice. As I mentioned, my friend Greg Head, who was the head of marketing for Infusionsoft and helped them become a $100 million dollar company in 10 years because of their extreme focus on sales and marketing software for small business, helped me define my brand focus of working with purpose-driven leaders. It’s important, too, because I am competing in an increasingly crowded industry of business storytelling.    Some of my competitors I admire most – some friends, some acquaintances, and some strangers – include Donald Miller and his StoryBrand process. I’ve done his program myself for my Business of Story brand. StoryBrand’s focus is to help small business grow their sales by clarifying their story on their websites. My interesting connection to Don, even though I’ve never met him, is that his best-selling book. A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, and it’s overall theme of “What makes a great story also makes a great life,” had a profound impact on me as I was creating the Story Cycle system. In fact, I went to Don’s very first seminar in Portland in 2010, long before he created his StoryBrand process, to guide my thinking on how to help people live into their most powerful stories. In fact, I went to Don’s very first seminar in Portland in 2010, long before he created his StoryBrand process, to guide my thinking on how to help people live into their most powerful stories. Another terrific professional in the storytelling game, and a guy I count as a friend is Michael Margolis of GetStoried. When I think of Michael and the international work he does, I think of storytelling around innovation. He works with large, global brands, including the likes of Google, Deloitte, and NASA, to help them further innovation within their organizations. Michael is definitely the innovation story guy in my book. If you’re looking for business storytelling in the tech world with a twist, then I’d definitely send you to Kathy Klotz-Guest. If you’ve ever seen HBO’s Silicon Valley, Mike Judge’s hysterical TV series about, well, Silicon Valley, then you’ll get a sense of Kathy. She is a technology veteran, stand up comic and marketer extraordinaire who uses storytelling to help her clients curb what she calls, “jargon-monoxide,” you know, that curse-of-the-expert malady that puts audiences to sleep, or worse, with their inane use of jargon. She coined one of my favorite terms in Business Storytelling, Jargon-monoxide. These are just three of many fellow storytellers, each with a focused brand position: Don Miller’s StoryBrand for small businesses. Michael Margolis’ Get Storied for large organization innovation, and Kathy Klotz-Guest for the tech world.   By the way, you can hear both Michael and Kathy on my Business of Story show – again, see the show notes for links. And Don, consider this an open invitation to come on my show. Like Michael and Kathy, I admire your work and what you stand for. Hey, I even invested in your Blue Like Jazz movie. That was a brilliant crowd-sourced move, by the way, to raise your final quarter million to get the movie finished. Michele and I loved the movie, and it was great fun seeing our names among the thousands of executive producers. I help leaders tell their brand stories on purpose And me? My purpose is to help leaders of purpose-driven organizations like you clarify your story to drive revenue and amplify your success. And I deliver on my purpose in three different ways… I help you clarify your brand story through our proven Story Cycle system. In fact, if you tuned into my show two weeks ago, you heard me take Jonathan Barney through the Story Cycle system to clarify his brand story around his restaurant service training platform and focus his purpose of helping people live a tastier life. In addition to clarifying your brand story, I also offer the Storytelling for Leaders and Storytelling for Sales 6-month deliberate practice training programs. Once your brand story is crystal clear, these programs help you find and tell the stories that shape the behaviors that create the culture that drives epic performance. Around your purpose. Essentially, we help you find the true stories within your brand and show you how to tell them well in your advertising, marketing and sales to connect with your audiences. True stories well told. The Storytelling for Leaders and Storytelling for Sales deliberate practice programs come from another amazing story outfit, this time in Melbourne, Australia. Shawn Callahan and Mark Schenk created these programs 13 years ago and have worked with brands around the world to build storytelling cultures. This offering is the ideal extension to the Business of Story, and I have become a certified partner delivering these proven programs. Why do purpose-driven organizations need to practice business storytelling now, more than ever, to amplify your impact? Because business is more complex than ever.  How do you describe your place in the world to your staff, employees, customers, shareholders and other stakeholders when so much external chaos impacts you?   Chaos like growing competition in this time of abundance A widening economic divide between the haves and have-nots The significant environmental and social impacts of climate change Social injustice and unrest A White House and its cronies that appear hell bent on alienating America from the rest of the world In fact, I spent 12 days in The Netherlands a couple of weeks ago working with our ASU students. Guess what the prevailing sentiment is towards our president? I heard this from business leaders, bureaucrats, and bartenders. They ask all in their own way: “How did you Americans let this happen and what are you going to do about it?” You don’t think this president is going to impact your business, think again. And what stories are you telling your employees to keep them all focused on your purpose to grow your sales and amplify your impact: the three things you actually have control over? I’m afraid power points, infographics, snapchats and tweets aren’t going to do it for you anymore. By the way, I reminded our students in Amsterdam that power points don’t kill audiences. Presenters using bullets in power points do. Don’t believe me? Just listen to Janine Kurnoff of the Presentation Company on Business of Story to learn how to bring storytelling to all of your communications so you can cut through the clutter and connect.   Or tune into Nick Gray of Museum Hack on how to bring adventure to your brand through storytelling. And on that note, take in my conversation with the ultimate conspirator to business success, Robert Rose on why you must turn your adjectives and adverbs into adventures in your story marketing. Stories connect in our disconnected world Another reason why story is more important now than ever is that our uberly connected world has created a massive malady. Attention Deficit Disorder is now a communicable disease, and we’re all the viruses. Our connected world has ironically made us all less connected in human terms. I had a fascinating guest on about a month ago. His name is Jordan Bower, a Transformational Storytelling Consultant, and Corporate Intimacy Expert. Ahhh, see his unique positioning… his fine point… his focused purpose: Transformational Storytelling Consultant and Corporate Intimacy Expert? On my show, Jordan told me about his girlfriend breaking up with him in the summer of 2010. Devastated, he did what we would ALL do in this circumstance: he walked from Seattle to Mexico along the Pacific Ocean.  Right? During his four-month odyssey to find himself, Jordan came across thousands of people. He shared coffee, meals, campfires, and beers with folks from all walks of life: from hobos and hillbillies to surfer dudes, to housewives, tech titans and I’m sure there was a social media guru or two in there as well. I asked him what the common theme was among these disparate people. What do you think he said? I asked him what the common theme was among these disparate people. What do you think he said? Jordan told me that to a person, the common sentiment was alienation and loneliness. He learned on his trek that these dopamine pumps we call iPhones and Androids, that promise to connect us with the world, actually create greater isolation. One intense symptom is FOMO, or the fear of missing out. What we’re missing in our over-communicated world is authentic, person-to-person interaction. If Gottschall said, “Our minds yield helplessly to the suction of story,” then I believe our hearts crave bonding with real people. Jordan’s point of people feeling alienated and lonely is not the first time I’ve heard this theme. But it struck me hard on this show. I even created a manifesto of sorts just to help me get my head around this phenomenon. I call it: The Virtual Connection Myth. "Our digital dopamine pumps artificially reward us for superficial online interactions masking an epidemic of alienation and loneliness people suffer as their storytelling skills atrophy in the absence of authentic human connection in the real world." OMG, am I suffering from jargon-monoxide? My point is this: The most powerful story will ever tell is in-person. If you can’t be in front of the water cooler with your audience, then the second most powerful story you can tell is first person, online. Tell me a story with a time stamp, when did it happen, a location stamp, where did it happen, real people as the characters. Give me action and adventure, surprise me, and then deliver your business point! And believe it or not, you can do this in 60 seconds or less.   On Thursday, June 26, I was giving a storytelling workshop for a bunch of  Dutch professionals who specialize in sustainability and the circular economy in Haarlemmermeer, Holland.  A young man named Max is an intern for one of the organizations and is about to graduate with his business degree in sustainability. I asked the gathering who their toughest audience was so we could work on stories to connect with them on their terms. Max told me it was his granddad. You see, his grandpa didn’t understand sustainability, didn’t believe in man-made global warming and told Max he was wasting his time with his foolish degree. I could tell he was crestfallen by not having his grandfather’s approval. So I instructed Max to use the Story Cycle to craft a story from his grandpa’s point-of-view and then challenged him to share his story over the weekend. I ran into Max four days later when our ASU cohort returned to Haarlemmermeer for another session. He had the widest smile on his face. I asked him “What’s up, dude?” He told me about having the conversation with his grandpa about climate change and how he used a hockey stick to demonstrate to the old man how carbon in our atmosphere has remained relatively balanced for millennia and then pointed to the curve end of the stick to demonstrate the man-made carbon we have pumped into the system over a short amount of time. “This was the first time my granddad ever understood what I was talking about,” Max proclaimed through his smile. “And I told him that fixing this problem is important to me and that’s why I’m doing what I’m doing.” I asked Max if his granddad likes hockey. “Loves it,” he said, with his smiling growing even wider. Smart young man, that Max. Understanding his audience and having such empathy for their point-of-view that he found a way to use a story to connect, change his beliefs, and earn his approval. By the way, I learned this basic structure to story with time and location stamps, characters, action, a surprise and point from my friends at Anecdote. And we cover it in great detail in our 6-month deliberate practice programs. The most invaluable FREE advice you'll ever get Now I’d like to help you clarify your brand story strategy, focus your purpose of growing your revenue and amplifying your impact. When I told my producer, Brian, who you met earlier in the show, about what I’m about to do, he actually said it might not work because it sounds too good to be true. Well, maybe. You’ll have to be the judge of that. What I am offering to you, with no strings attached, is a complimentary 30-minute phone call to demonstrate how quickly you can get your brand story straight. I promise it will be the most invaluable free advice for you, your business and organization that you have ever received. Register for your FREE Impact Call. I’ll help you clarify your story in 30 minutes or less. You have nothing to lose. What’s in it for me? I get to connect with real people, in real time and learn about your real needs. Our conversation, while helping you clarify your story to grow revenue and amplify your impact, will also help me better understand exactly what the market needs. What’s in it for me? I get to connect with real people, in real time and learn about your real needs. Our conversation, while helping you clarify your story to grow revenue and amplify your impact, will also help me better understand exactly what the market needs. This is a total win/win consulting call. You will be doing me a huge favor by helping me dial in my purpose: To help you live into and prosper from your most powerful story. This is a limited time offer, and I can tell you that not everyone is going to get the free impact call. If you’re in business just to make money, then I’d recommend you reach out to some of the other storytelling consultants. But if you’re into to truly amplifying your impact and empowering the people around you to live into and prosper from your story, then I’m your guy. Register now at our new and improved website, businessofstory.com. And if you want to get the most of the call, download your DIY Brand Story Workbook first. Outline yourstory. Then let's chat. And thank you for listening to this special, one hundred first episode of the Business of Story podcast. Gag, you’re probably hoping that I don’t return solo for another hundred shows. And one last request. We have 74 reviews on iTunes, and I’d love to push that over the 100 mark in celebration of our one hundred and first episode. Would you do me a huge and be one of those listeners that pushes us over the top of the century mark in reviews. It only takes minutes and would mean the world to me. I appreciate it. Finally, I want to remind you that regardless of what you do with your business, leadership and sales storytelling, that... "The most potent story you will ever tell is the story you tell yourself. So make it a good one." Thanks for listening, and until next Sunday, have a wonderful life.

Watch the video version of this episode of The #AskBrady Show here: https://www.youtube.com/user/ProChurchTools --   1. A Million Miles In A Thousand Years by Donald Miller 2. Story by Robert McKee 3. Wired For Story by Lisa Cron 4. TED Talks Storytelling by Akash Karia 5. The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall   #TIMESTAMPS: 5:02 - What information should we keep on our website vs what we put on our central hub? And should there be a link from the Website to the central or hub? 13:51 - Should I be posting on Facebook AND Instagram daily? How often should I share the same posts on both? 19:03 - What do you think about announcement slides before the service? 22:51 - Do you recommend any good resources on how to tell good stories?     For those that will be quick to say that they don't use technology much, how could we as the communications staff to get them into the central hub model?   Brady Shearer is the CEO of Pro Church Tools Inc., a company helping churches communicate better. Through weekly videos, podcasts, and articles, Pro Church Tools reaches more than 25,000 churches every month.   Brady is the host of The #AskBrady Show, a church communications focused Q&A video show and podcast, as well as the Pro Church Podcast, a weekly interview audio podcast.   Follow Me Online Here: Instagram: http://instagram.com/bradyshearer Facebook: http://facebook.com/prochurchtools Website: http://prochurchtools.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/bradyshearer

Stories are the operating system of human consciousness and myths are culture-specific upgrades, each new version bringing out new features and retiring some old ones. Yes indeed, we have a compulsion to turn almost everything into a story. Joseph Campbell has claimed it is the distinguishing mark of our species. The thing that makes us different from all other animals is not our emotional complexity or even our intellect, but our ability and indeed need  to tell stories.  So why do we need stories? What do they do for us? How can stories make us more human? We spend more time within the realm of story than you might think.  This not only includes our time spent reading or watching TV or films.  It also includes our propensity to constantly daydream -- playing out potential real life scenerios in our heads or replaying our version of past events.  It includes the way we answer social questions such as "How are you?" Or "How was your weekend?" Even things from advertisements to watching sports are taken out of the realm of simplistic facts and instead woven into stories about what might happen if you buy this product (for instance the awesome Apple ads of 2016) or the background story of this particular athelete. In fact we spend so much of our day in within stories that Jonathan Gottschall of The Storytelling Animal, has claimed "Neverland is our evolutionary niche, our special habitat."

Digitales Storytelling 2016   Digitales Storytelling ist momentan in aller Munde und der Stoff, aus dem Marketer-Träume gemacht sind. Möchtest Du Deine Marke stärken und klar positionieren, führt kein Weg an digitalem Storytelling vorbei. Denn nichts begeistert Menschen mehr, als eine gut erzählte Geschichte. Wenn Du weißt, wie Du die Geschichte Deiner Marke spannend und fesselnd erzählst, kannst Du Menschen mit dieser nachhaltig an Deine Marke binden – so wie es bereits einige Unternehmen erfolgreich vormachen. Selbstverständlich unterliegt auch digitales Storytelling Trends und Strömungen, die sich im Laufe der Zeit immer wieder ändern. Gerade bei einem so überaus populären Thema wie digitalem Storytelling solltest Du immer up to date bleiben, um stets die Nase vorn zu haben. Wir haben daher für Dich die 7 wichtigsten Trends des digitalen Storytellings 2016 gesammelt.   1. Die Botschaft zählt – großartige Geschichten haben großartige Messages   Geschichten haben seit jeher eine besondere Bedeutung für Menschen. Ob geschrieben oder mündlich überliefert, in jeder Kultur und in jeder Sprache findet sich eine eigene Tradition des Geschichtenerzählens. Experten der Neurobiologie, Biologie und Psychologie sind sich sogar einig, dass unsere im Laufe der Evolution immer besser gewordene Fähigkeit, Geschichten mit anderen zu teilen, ausschlaggebend für den Erfolg der Spezies Homo Sapiens gewesen ist. Jonathan Gottschall beschreibt die Fähigkeit, Geschichten zu erzählen, in seinem 2014 erschienen Buch The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human sogar als urmenschlichen Instinkt. Dies erklärt auch, warum gekonntes digitales Storytelling bei Menschen so gut ankommt – und warum Du es unbedingt einsetzen solltest.   In der heutigen digitalisierten Welt hat jeder Zugriff auf eine schier unendliche Anzahl von Geschichten. Die Fragen, die sich nun zwangsläufig stellen, lauten: Wie erschaffen wir sinnvolle Geschichten, die einen Mehrwert bieten, und wie wählen wir aus der Masse an vorhandenen Geschichten die besten aus? Oder, um es im Sinne des Historikers George Dyson zu sagen: Information ist billig, aber die Bedeutung hat Wert.   Geschichten mit einer Message sind es daher auch, die Menschen tief in ihrem Inneren berühren und sich dauerhaft im Gedächtnis verankern. Sie sprechen das emotionale Gedächtnis an und besitzen eine Art Weisheit sowie eine Botschaft, mit der sich Menschen identifizieren können. Darüber hinaus beinhalten großartige Geschichten immer eine universell gültige, instinktive und transzendente Botschaft, die uns nicht nur anspricht, sondern zugleich auch unsere Denkmuster sowie unser Bild von uns infrage stellt und uns somit zum Nachdenken anregt.   2. Tradition vs. Erneuerung – Storytelling und Erzählmethode   Erfolgreiches Storytelling ist durch die geschickte Balance zweier Komponenten gekennzeichnet: Tradition und Erneuerung. Bei einem genaueren Blick auf digitales Storytelling wird deutlich, dass Storytelling selbst die Komponente Tradition ist, während die Methode des Erzählens die Komponente Erneuerung darstellt. Gemäß dieser Annahme lautet eine gängige Prämisse im Bereich des digitalen Storytellings auch: Brich mit der Tradition, oder du wirst gebrochen.   Doch was genau soll eigentlich aufgebrochen werden? Ganz einfach, die bisherige Tradition des Storytellings. Es reicht heute nicht mehr aus, Geschichten einfach zu erzählen. Vielmehr geht es darum, eine sinnvolle Beziehung zur Bezugsgruppe aufzubauen. Durch wechselseitige Kommunikation muss dieser das Gefühl von Verbundenheit mit der Marke vermittelt werden. Dies gelingt dir unter anderem mit folgenden Techniken.   3. Einbeziehung der User   Das Einbeziehen von Usern in die Geschichte eröffnet eine komplett neueSupport the show (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=2PU5W9H752VZJ&source=url)

Why do men like to fight and why do we like to watch? These are questions I’ve asked myself before and ones that we attempt to answer with my guest today Jonathan Gottschall, an English professor with some real-world experience in MMA. Today we talk about the nature of fighting, how fighting has evolved, the role honor plays in combat, and where the desire to make men more civilized comes from. JONATHAN GOTTSCHALL Jonathan Gottshcall is  a Distinguished Fellow in the English Department at Washington & Jefferson College. His research at the intersection of science and art has been covered in outlets like The New York Times, Scientific American, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Nature, and NPR. Jonathan is also the author of seven books, including The Storytelling Animal, which was a New York Times Editor's Choice Selection and a finalist for the LA Times Book Prize. When he was 39, a cage fighting gym opened across from the English Department. He asked myself, "What would Hemingway do?" The answer is in his latest book, The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch. Please leave us a review at http://www.orderofman.com/itunes Shownotes: http://www.orderofman.com/091 Website: http://www.orderofman.com

Welcome to Amy Alkon's HumanLab: The Science Between Us, a weekly show with the luminaries of behavioral science. On this show, Dr. Jonathan Gottschall talks about his foray from bummed out adjunct English professor to the Mixed Marshall Arts world and his big cage fight -- along with the psychology driving violence and the fight rituals that actually contain it. His fascinating book we'll be discussing on the show: The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch. Join me and all my fascinating guests every Sun from 7-7:30 pm PT and 10-10:30 pm ET, here at blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher.Please support the show by buying my science-based and funny book on how we call all behave less counterproductively, "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck." 

Literary scholar, publishing consultant, and co-author of the critically acclaimed book The Bestseller Code, Jodie Archer dropped by to chat with me about her journey, the coming revolution in publishing, and the insecurities that all writers face. Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You By Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting. Start getting more from your site today! Before earning her PhD from Stanford, Ms. Archer studied English at Cambridge, worked in both journalism and TV, and became an acquisitions editor for Penguin UK publishing. While at Stanford Jodie taught nonfiction and memoir writing, and researched both contemporary fiction and bestsellers. Upon completion of her doctoral work she was recruited by Apple where she was the lead in research on books. Her book, The Bestseller Code, is based on her doctoral research with professor Matt Jockers, an algorithm that they tested over four years and refined by text mining over 20,000 contemporary novels. The Guardian proclaimed that their book “… may revolutionize the publishing industry,” in part because their algorithm was able to predict bestselling books 80% of the time, based on a theme, plot, character and many other big data points. If you’re a fan of The Writer Files, please click subscribe to automatically see new interviews. In Part One of this file Jodie Archer and I discuss: How a word nerd helped program a computer to predict bestsellers with a high degree of accuracy Why all writers of fiction should read The Bestseller Code How to turn years of research into an entertaining and educational non-fiction book The power of deadlines for beating procrastination Listen to The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience below ... Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes The Show Notes Audible is Offering a Free Audiobook Download with a 30-day Trial: Grab Your Free Audiobook Here – audibletrial.com/rainmaker How the Author of The Bestseller Code Jodie Archer Writes: Part Two How Critically Acclaimed Literary Scholar Jonathan Gottschall Writes: Part One How Andy Weir (Bestselling Author of ‘The Martian’) Writes: Part One How ‘Sweetbitter’ Author Stephanie Danler Writes: Part One The Bestseller Code: Anatomy of the Blockbuster Novel – Jodie Archer & Matt Jockers ArcherJockers.com Jodie Archer on Good Reads Jodie Archer on Twitter Kelton Reid on Twitter The Transcript How the Author of The Bestseller Code Jodie Archer Writes: Part One Voiceover: Rainmaker FM Kelton Reid:Welcome back to The Writer Files. I’m your host, Kelton Reid, here to take you on yet another tour of the habits, habitats, and brains of renowned writers. Literary scholar, publishing consultant, and co-author of the critically acclaimed book, The Bestseller Code, Jodie Archer dropped by this week to chat with me about her journey becoming a revolution in publishing, and the insecurities that all writers face. Before earning her PhD from Stanford, Ms Archer studied English at Cambridge, worked in both journalism and TV, and became an acquisitions editor for Penguin UK Publishing. While at Stanford, Jodie taught nonfiction and memoir writing and researched both contemporary fiction and bestsellers. Upon completion of her doctoral work she was recruited by Apple, where she was the lead in research on books. Her book, The Bestseller Code, is based on her doctoral research with Professor Matthew Jockers, an algorithm that they tested over four years and refined by text mining over 20,000 contemporary novels. The Guardian proclaimed that their book may revolutionize the publishing industry in part because their algorithm was able to predict bestselling books eighty percent of the time based on theme, plot, character, and many other big data points. In part one of this file Jodie and I discuss how a word nerd helped program a computer to predict bestsellers with a high degree of accuracy, why all writers of fiction should read The Bestseller Code, how to turn years of research into an entertaining and educational nonfiction book, and the power of deadlines for beating procrastination. If you’re a fan of The Writer Files, please click subscribe to automatically see new interviews as soon as they’re published. This episode of The Writer Files is brought to you by Audible. I ll have more on their special offer later in the show but if you love audiobooks or you’ve always wanted to give them a try, you can check out over 180,000 titles right now at Audibletrial.com/Rainmaker. We are rolling today with a very special guest. Jodie Archer has joined The Writer Files. Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to chat with me about this fantastic new book, The Bestseller Code, and a little bit about your process as a writer. Jodie Archer: Thank you for having me. You’re very welcome. The Makings of a Destined Writer Kelton Reid: I am just utterly fascinated by the book. I did want to, before we get into chatting about The Bestseller Code a little bit, to just maybe do a little background for listeners who might not know your story, maybe just a little bit of your origins as, you know, I mean I know you’ve done a lot of stuff. You’ve had a background in journalism as well as publishing. I think you’re considered a literary scholar, so there’s a lot to unpack there, but maybe you could just give us the CliffsNotes of where you’ve been. Jodie Archer: Yeah. I’ll try. I did my first degree in English in the UK, and got into writing and journalism there, and also edited some anthologies of writings and got into the editing side. And straight from university there I went to Penguin where I did this fast tour around the publishing house in what they call the graduate trainee scheme. And so it was actually really beneficial both from the publishing perspective and the writing perspective now, because they trained me in marketing and sales and publicity and all those different things. I eventually settled into being an editor for Penguin. Then after a while I just went with this inner hunch that had kept surfacing in me that I wanted to go and do a PhD in the US. It had always felt like that kind of too much self-indulgent kind of thing, you know, move across the world and just go and study for another six, seven years. I did do it. I got a scholarship at Stanford that seemed to be the sign, and I went and moved to California and that’s where I started studying for the work that’s in The Bestseller Code about the bestseller, and I met Matt Jockers who is my co-author. We went from there really. After that I moved to Apple and researched books for them, and then I went back to writing. It’s been, so far, a career that’s been circling the book and engaging with the book from lots of different angles. So it’s nice to settle down and just write for a while. Kelton Reid: It’s fascinating to me that you had all these incarnations and writing is clearly a love of yours. You’re kind of the ultimate word nerd, as it were. Jodie Archer: That would be fair, maybe. Kelton Reid: Did you have an aha moment when you knew you were going to be a writer? Jodie Archer: I think about this, and I think it’s probably, in hindsight, something that wanted to come to me as a child, but I kind of ignored it. I was a total reading nerd as a kid, and would pretty much hide in a cupboard with a book if it meant that I could get out of doing anything other than reading, but I was always scared of my pen and didn’t think I could ever write a story as good as a Roald Dahl or a Enid Blyton, or anyone I was reading as a child. I remember, actually, when I was thirteen I lied to my mum and said I was going out with a friend, and I actually went to see a psychic. She really wouldn’t have liked it until I was maybe sixteen, you know, getting involved and seeing a psychic. There was this local psychic, and I crept in and I said, “Will you give me a reading?” She was like, “Sure.” The most powerful memory I had, you know, she told me two things. One was that I would not marry this guy I was madly in love with at age thirteen, but I’d stay his friend, and he’s still my friend and I didn’t marry him. The other thing that she said was that I’m meant to be a writer, and at the time I wanted to be a lawyer because I liked to argue at that time. I thought being a writer was just a silly pipe dream, but she insisted that that was my calling, and it kind of stuck with me and I fought with it for twenty years, and then finally … How a Word Nerd Helped Program a Computer to Predict Bestsellers with a High Degree of Accuracy Kelton Reid: It panned out. Let’s talk a little bit about this fantastic new book of yours, co-authored by Matthew Jockers, The Bestseller Code. It’s I mean the cover says, “What a groundbreaking algorithm can teach us about books, stories, and reading.” It’s entirely fascinating to me, this work, and the subject obviously is pretty interesting, but it wasn’t what I was expecting as I was reading it. I was just kind of blown away by a lot of the insights in there. It’s an analysis of what makes readers tick, what makes writers tick, but it’s not this dry … I was expecting the idea of big data and looking at the book business and the publishing world being a little bit drier subject, but it’s a really fantastic read. It’s a lot of fun. Jodie Archer: Thank you. A lot of people have told me who are reading it, it’s just been out this week here in the US, “Oh, it wasn’t what I was expecting.” They haven’t really clarified what the expectation was, but I’m glad with your way of putting it. I’m glad you’ve enjoyed reading it. It was certainly very, very fun for us to write, and I think I’ve found that even though, yes, we’d done a lot of research for the algorithm and before we put pen to paper we had completed that research and would have been able to talk about it then, as we were writing our history as readers and writers came much more into the fore. We spent lots of times around books where I haven’t been working with algorithms, and I haven’t been working alongside a pro text miner, and so my experience of books has been very traditional like any editor or like any lover of books, or a journalist, or someone like yourself who obviously enjoys books. It was nice to bring that part of me to the page as well, and I hope that’s what’s made a little bit chatty. I hope the book is kind of chatty rather than dry. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Absolutely. It’s entertaining. It’s definitely educational. I love that literary scholar, Jonathan Gottschall, who, actually, I love his book, The Storytelling Animal, blurbed your book and said that he was just absolutely blown away by it. There’s a lot to unpack there for sure, and with your love of everything literary and also now adding in the big data piece. Basically what you all created was this algorithm, right, the bestseller-ometer. Jodie Archer: That’s its current nickname, yeah. Actually, I mean my co-author Matt Jockers is the text mining expert, and so what that means is that he brought that training background in how we can make computers read in a kind of a way that approximates different aspects of how humans read or what we notice when we’re reading. And together we sat and talked about how do we, as human readers, process style, how do we process plot, how do we process emotion in literature, and how do we look at words and the words that trigger that, and then we kind of modeled that with code. It was fascinating to me, because that whole side of literary analysis was very, very new to me, and I was kind of suspicious at first. I’ll admit when I came to it, like many people I felt, “Well, what are computers doing in the space of novels and subjective literary criticism?” or even the other methods of literary critical training that I’d been involved in in my PhD work. But, I was interested and I think Matt is the real deal, and so I listened and we tried it out, and we were just kind of flabbergasted by the results and we brought our different backgrounds together and that’s what created this really fun quest that we’ve been on that created this book. Why All Writers of Fiction Should Read The Bestseller Code Kelton Reid: Yeah. I mean, I think all writers of narrative, I mean of fiction of a longer length should read this. Not necessarily for the reasons that you talk about in the book, obviously you have to have a love of writing and a love of what you’re doing, but there’s just so much in there. There’s so many great little tidbits, great quotes, great factoids, but it is just really compelling, and kudos on the work. It’s a lot of fun. I’m loving it. Jodie Archer: Thank you. Kelton Reid: We will be right back after a very short break. Thanks so much for listening to The Writer Files. This episode of The Writer Files is brought to you by Audible, offering over 180,000 audiobook titles to choose from. Audible seamlessly delivers the world’s both fiction and nonfiction to your iPhone, Android, Kindle or computer. For Rainmaker FM listeners, Audible is offering a free audiobook download with a 30-day trial to give you the opportunity to check them out. Grab your free audiobook right now by visiting Audibletrial.com/Rainmaker. I just hopped over there to grab Stephen King’s epic novel 11/22/63, about an English teacher who goes back in time to prevent the assassination of JFK. You can download your pick or any other audiobook free by heading over to Audibletrial.com/Rainmaker. To download your free audiobook today, go to Audibletrial.com/Rainmaker. What Jodie is Working on Right Now Kelton Reid: Brings me to the question of what could you possibly be working on now? How do you follow this up? Are you working on more nonfiction or are you turning now to fiction? Jodie Archer: Kind of a bit of both. I think I would like to write another book of essays about books and the book world that are maybe a bit personal and a bit combining advice for writers. Because I’ve been in the writing world for so long and in very, very different roles, that I’ve kind of taken for granted some wisdoms that writers ask me, and like, “Oh, my God. I didn’t know that. Will you write about it?” I may do another book about the book world, but I’m also working on a couple of fiction projects, and I think I’ll settle into one of those, probably the end of this year and into the new year. Kelton Reid: Cool, cool. It seems like you could do just about anything, especially now with all of your wisdom, that you couldn’t help be successful. I hope … Jodie Archer: It’s a lot of pressure. Kelton Reid: I know. Jodie Archer: People say if you write a novel now, you’re going to have to come up with a good pen name, because the pressure is going to be on. When I’m working on fiction I try to kind of … I would say I try to ignore some of the insights we have. And I only mean that in the sense I don’t try and write by every rule or idea that comes to me from the book we’ve just written, but it is in the back of my mind. I do go back and check myself, and find I plot better now, having written that book, and think better about how to use theme. How to Turn Years of Research into an Entertaining and Educational Non-Fiction Book Kelton Reid: Yeah. We’ve had a handful of those writers mentioned. I’m thinking of Andy Weir was on this show, author of The Martian, who was great to talk to. Stephanie Danler, most recently, author of Sweet Bitter came on to talk about some of her processes. You’re in good company, and I appreciate you chatting with me about the book, and so I definitely will encourage listeners to seek out The Bestseller Code. Man, it’s awesome. Moving onto your process. Let’s talk a little bit about your productivity. Just with the different types of reading and writing you’ve done, if you want to go back to kind of the process of writing this book in particular, how much research were you doing? This is years of research, right? Jodie Archer: Yeah. For this book I mean it’s just building the algorithm and then validating it and checking it, and rebuilding. It took a lot of time. I spent the last three or four years at Stanford that I was doing my PhD mostly involved in this project with Matt, and wrote a PhD thesis on, and the first findings of this study, which is much more academic because you’re writing there for a PhD committee, obviously. My intention was always to write a trade book because I was just really intrigued by the results that we saw, you know, as a non-tech person, that were being shown to me, given this added tool of the computer, and the patterns that it was showing me about readers and writing. I knew I wanted to turn it into a book for the trade that other readers and writers might enjoy and learn from. That happened some time after I’d graduated, and we totally redid the experiment and started writing a trade book. The research had pretty much been done by the time we started, otherwise, yeah. It’s a long project, but the writing we did fairly quickly actually, in about four months. The Power of Deadlines for Beating Procrastination Kelton Reid: Wow, that’s amazing. During that process were you then sitting down every day to write and putting in chunks or were you doing word counts? Jodie Archer: We had this issue of being co-authors, and that’s a really different experience than writing on your own. I was writing from Colorado, and Matt is in Nebraska, and so we had pretty much daily Skype conversations and we wrote in Google Docs together. Because we were under a tight deadline, our publisher moved our submission date forward by about four or five months, just suddenly, to hit this fall for publication. There’s nothing like that to get the word counts there. I think every day we would just write, but we basically had to draft each chapter in about a week, and then took ten to twelve days in total per chapter, so we were writing pretty quickly. I think it suits me to be under that kind of pressure. It avoids procrastination. Kelton Reid: Absolutely. I’m sure that helped. Did you find that you had a most productive time of day for your writing or a place, like an office or a coffee shop? Jodie Archer: Yeah. I like to think I can write in coffee shops, and I know now that if I take myself to a coffee shop to write I don’t really intend to write that day. I just intend to get a few clever words down I’m pleased with, and then four words and give myself a pat on the back, and then drink too much coffee and go home. If I really want to produce, I have to be at home, and I have a study at home. I have to start in the morning, as much as I would like to avoid it. If I get on a good speed in the morning, then I’ll probably write all day through to about dinner time, and that’s the way it works best for me. Kelton Reid: Are you someone who can write with headphones on or do you prefer silence while you’re writing? Jodie Archer: I don’t like headphones. I don’t like the feeling of them in my ears, but I do sometimes have classical music or any music without not too quick of a beat, because I’m kind of thinking slowly. I don’t like words in music when I’m writing, so I like sort of a soft, just music without words or silence. Kelton Reid: Yeah. I think I know the answer to this next one because you addressed it actually in your Goodreads Q&A there, but do you believe in writer’s block? Jodie Archer: You know, I think Sometimes I say yes, and sometimes no actually, so I don’t know what I said in Goodreads, but I think that I’ve heard some really successful writers like Nora Roberts in interview and at conferences say she really doesn’t believe in it. She thinks it’s just an excuse, and I find that I don’t quite fully believe in it, because I think discipline with writing does help overcome it, and she’s probably fully overcome it. She’s written so many books. I find I encounter it if I kind of get three or four ways to open a chapter coming through all at the same time, and it kind of jams my mind, and I can’t pick which way to go, and so I nearly always walk, go outside, and move my body, and that tends to release it. I used to suffer what I thought was writer’s block much more than I do now, and I think it was just fear of the pen, insecurity, all those things, the idea of people reading what you have to say. I had those when I was much younger, and I think that’s pretty normal, but practice helps. Kelton Reid: Absolutely. You’re in good company, I think. Many a famous writer has used walking and exercise for breaking through. It’s part of that incubation phase. Jodie Archer: The problem is then you get this idea when you’re halfway up a mountain in Colorado, and you haven’t got a pen. You see me like running down the mountain not very elegantly trying to get back to my computer before the sentence leaves, and inevitably it disappears just as I get through the threshold. That’s happened to me a lot. Kelton Reid: That’s funny. Well, you should always carry a notebook. I think you taught us that also. That was one of the things somebody mentioned in your book. Then what about the smartphone? Isn’t the voice to text thing now something all-pervasive on the smart phone? Jodie Archer: It is. I’ve never got into it. I’m only just getting used to Siri, and that kind of thing. I’m more old-fashioned with my notes. I tend to, everywhere I go, I have, I try to have a notebook with me, and then the days that I forget is where the inspiration comes. But I’m a pen and paper girl more than a smartphone for taking notes down, I think. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Interesting. Thanks so much for joining me for this half of a tour through the writer’s process. If you enjoy The Writer Files podcast please subscribe to the show and leave us a rating or a review on iTunes to help other writers find us. For more episodes, or to just leave a comment or a question, you can drop by WriterFiles.FM. You can always chat with me on Twitter @KeltonReid. Cheers, talk to you next week.

In this episode, the Beverly Rogers, Carol C. Harter Black Mountain Institute hosts a panel discussion entitled "The Spectacle of Violence: Why We Need to Watch." It features William Vollmann, Kerry Howley, Jonathan Gottschall, and Brian Villmoare. Joshua Wolf Shenk moderates. The event was held September 29, 2016 in the Si Redd Room in the Thomas & Mack Center at UNLV.

Thanks for checking out this episode of Art of the Sermon! Be sure to subscribe through iTunes, Google Play Music, or your favorite podcast app. If you enjoy this episode, leave a review on our podcast’s page in the iTunes store. This will help others discover the show! Guest: Brady Shearer – CEO of Pro Church Tools and Host of the Pro Church Podcast General Topic: Using Media in Preaching and Teaching Introduction to Brady and his work (1:26) Philosophy of communication (3:51) Attention – the most valuable commodity (5:38) 3-pronged approach to storytelling (7:47) Stories, stats, steps (10:40) What pastors need to know about media (13:00) Church logo design (15:37) Reminder: social media is free! (20:01) Pastoring opportunities online (20:43) Latest trends (22:52) Toughest and favorite projects (25:49) Impactful preachers and communicators (27:03) Influential books (28:17) Recommended Follows (29:20) How to follow Brady (30:59) Links to things mentioned in the episode Pro Church Tools Pro Church Podcast The Method and Message of Jesus' Teachings by Robert Stein 99Designs A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller Story by Robert McKee TED Talks Storytelling by Akash Karia The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall Gimlet Media Podcasts Brady and Brittany Vlog Reaching out to our guest @BradyShearer (Twitter, Instagram) @BradyShearer1 (Snapchat) Next Episode arrives June 16, 2016! Communication/design tools and tips as well as more from the interview with Brady Shearer Connect with the Show I would love to hear what you think about the show—especially this episode. You can connect with the show and send me your feedback through the following channels: Facebook - Facebook.com/ArtOfTheSermon Twitter- Twitter.com/ArtOfTheSermon Instagram- Instagram.com/ArtOfTheSermon Comment on the Show Notes post at ArtOfTheSermon.com Art of the Sermon is a project by Dan Wunderlich of Defining Grace. Learn more at DefiningGrace.com Disclosure of Material Connection: Some of the links in these show notes may be “affiliate links.” This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission. Defining Grace is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program.

Welcome to Amy Alkon's HumanLab: The Science Between Us, a weekly show with the luminaries of behavioral science. On this show, Dr. Jonathan Gottschall talks about his foray from bummed out adjunct English professor to the Mixed Marshall Arts world and his big cage fight -- along with the psychology driving violence and the fight rituals that actually contain it. His fascinating book we'll be discussing on the show: The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch. Join me and all my fascinating guests every Sun from 7-7:30 pm PT and 10-10:30 pm ET, here at blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher.Please support the show by buying my science-based and funny book on how we call all behave less counterproductively, "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck." 

Welcome to Amy Alkon's HumanLab: The Science Between Us, a weekly show with the luminaries of behavioral science. On this show, Dr. Jonathan Gottschall talks about his foray from bummed out adjunct English professor to the Mixed Marshall Arts world and his big cage fight -- along with the psychology driving violence and the fight rituals that actually contain it. His fascinating book we'll be discussing on the show: The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch. Join me and all my fascinating guests every Sun from 7-7:30 pm PT and 10-10:30 pm ET, here at blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon or subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher.Please support the show by buying my science-based and funny book on how we call all behave less counterproductively, "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck." It's only about $11 at Amazon, brand new. And along with positive reviews in the WSJ and other publications, Library Journal gave the book a starred review: "Verdict: Solid psychology and a wealth of helpful knowledge and rapier wit fill these pages. Highly recommended." 

Mr. Gottschall is the author or editor of seven books, including The Storytelling Animal — a New York Times Editor’s Choice Selection and a finalist for the LA Times Book Prize — and most recently he published a fascinating book titled The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch.   Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You By   Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting. Start getting more from your site today! As a Distinguished Fellow at the English Department of Washington & Jefferson College his work lands at the intersection of science and art and is frequently covered in outlets like The New York Times, Scientific American, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and NPR. For his latest book he personally climbed into the cage to research the world of mixed martial arts, violence, masculinity, and why society is attracted to violent spectacle. Join us for this two-part interview. If you missed the first half you can find it here: How Critically Acclaimed Literary Scholar Jonathan Gottschall Writes: Part One In Part Two of the file Jonathan Gottschall and I discuss: Why Creativity Is Not the Hard Part for Writers How Great Writing is Like Grasping for a Handful of Water How Our Memories Fool Us with Stories A Great Reminder that Writing is Work, Not Magic Listen to The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience below ... Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes The Show Notes JonathanGottschall.com Jonathan Gottschall’s Author Page on Amazon ‘When Writers Attack: On Boxing, Norman Mailer, and the art of Getting Hit’ by Jonathan Gottschall Jonathan Gottschall on Twitter Kelton Reid on Twitter

Mr. Gottschall is the author or editor of seven books, including The Storytelling Animal — a New York Times Editor’s Choice Selection and a finalist for the LA Times Book Prize — and most recently he published a fascinating book titled The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch.   Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You By   Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting. Start getting more from your site today! As a Distinguished Fellow at the English Department of Washington & Jefferson College his work lands at the intersection of science and art and is frequently covered in outlets like The New York Times, Scientific American, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and NPR. For his latest book he personally climbed into the cage to research the world of mixed martial arts, violence, masculinity, and why society is attracted to violent spectacle. Join us for this two-part interview. In Part One of the file Jonathan Gottschall and I discuss: Why Writers Need to Chase What Scares Them How ‘Drugs’ Can Boost Your Productivity Why Writing 365 Days a Year May Not Be Ideal The Sad Reality of Writer’s Block Listen to The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience below ... Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes The Show Notes JonathanGottschall.com Jonathan Gottschall’s Author Page on Amazon Jonathan Gottschall on Twitter Kelton Reid on Twitter How Critically Acclaimed Literary Scholar Jonathan Gottschall Writes: Part Two

More at https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/evolution-storytelling. Humans are unique as the only creatures on this planet who tell stories. Whether it be fiction, history, mythology, gossip, daydreams, news, or personal narrative - stories permeate every aspect of our lives. But how did we evolve into such creatures? Are there any possible evolutionary advantages that storytelling might give us? How do stories shape who we are, both as individuals and as a species? John and Ken swap stories with Jonathan Gottschall from Washington & Jefferson College, author of "The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human."

We are doing something a little different today on the Mental Game Podcast. My co-author Barry Carter is very interested student of the psychology of performance, which started with poker and has expanded significantly with the numerous books he's read on the subject. As we expand the scope of the podcast, he will be joining us occasionally to interview some interesting minds from the world of psychology. Today he interviews Jonathan Gottschall, a scholar at Washington and Jefferson College in Pennsylvania, who specializes in literature and evolution. His most recent book, “The Professor and the Cage,” follows his journey from academic to MMA fighter. Through it he explores the evolutionary psychology of fighting and bravery as he prepares to step into the Octagon himself. Barry raves about this book and believes it is a must-read for anyone wanting to learn more about masculinity, bravery and evolutionary psychology.

Author of The Professor in the Cage, Jonathan Gottschall, joins the show to discuss why humans are attracted to fighting.

Jonathan Gottschall's career as a college English prof was on the rocks, and he was desperate to do something completely different. So in his late 30s he left the classroom for the cage, taking up mixed martial arts and training for an amateur bout. It was more than a mid-life escapade, though. Jonathan had some unresolved issues around bullying in his own youth, and wanted to better understand the relationship between violence and masculinity, including his own. We talked about MMA, male aggression and Jonathan's book "The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch," as well as his ill-fated stint as a literary scholar with an evolutionary bent.

Have you ever wondered why storytelling is such an omnipresent theme of human life? Welcome to another guest segment of “The Writer s Brain” where I pick the brain of a neuroscientist about elements of great writing.   Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You By   Discover why more than 80,000 companies in 135 countries choose WP Engine for managed WordPress hosting. Start getting more from your site today! Research scientist Michael Grybko — of the Department of Psychology at the University of Washington — returned to the podcast to help me define storytelling from a scientific standpoint. If you missed the first two installments of The Writer s Brain — on How Neuroscience Defines both Creativity and Empathy — you can find them in the show notes as well as on writerfiles.fm and iTunes. In this file Michael Grybko and I discuss: Why Storytelling is the Default Mode of Human Communication How Empathy Makes Storytelling Such an Effective Tool Why Hollywood Continually Taps into ‘The Hero’s Journey’ How Blueprints Help Writers Connect with Their Audience Why Reading Fiction Makes Us More Empathetic Writers’ Addiction to Stories (Especially the Dark Ones) Where Humanity Would Be Without Storytelling Listen to The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience below ... Download MP3 Subscribe by RSS Subscribe in iTunes The Show Notes How Neuroscientist Michael Grybko Defines Creativity How Neuroscientist Michael Grybko Defines Empathy The Hero with a Thousand Faces (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell) Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting by Robert McKee “Reading literary fiction improves empathy, study finds” from The Guardian The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human by Jonathan Gottschall Kelton Reid on Twitter The Transcript How Neuroscientist Michael Grybko Defines Storytelling Voiceover: This is Rainmaker.FM, the digital marketing podcast network. It’s built on the Rainmaker Platform, which empowers you to build your own digital marketing and sales platform. Start your free 14-day trial at RainmakerPlatform.com. Kelton Reid: These are The Writer Files, a tour of the habits, habitats, and brains of working writers, from online content creators to fictionists, journalists, entrepreneurs, and beyond. I’m your host, Kelton Reid: writer, podcaster, and mediaphile. Each week, we’ll find out how great writers keep the ink flowing, the cursor moving, and avoid writer s block. Have you ever wondered why storytelling is such an omnipresent theme of human life? Welcome to another guest segment of The Writer’s Brain, where I pick the brain of a neuroscientist about elements of great writing. Research scientist Michael Grybko of the Department of Psychology at the University of Washington returned to the podcast to help me define storytelling from a scientific standpoint. If you missed the first two installments of The Writer’s Brain on how neuroscience defines both creativity and empathy, you can find them in the show notes as well as at WriterFiles.FM and iTunes. In this episode, we’ll discuss why storytelling is the default mode of human communication, how empathy makes storytelling such an effective tool, why Hollywood continually taps into the hero’s journey, how blueprints help writers connect with their audience, why reading fiction makes us more empathetic, the writer’s addiction to stories — especially the dark ones, and where humanity would be without storytelling. If you enjoy The Writer Files podcast, please subscribe to the show, and leave us a rating or a review in iTunes to help other writers find us. Thanks for listening. Michael Grybko, welcome back to The Writer Files. Michael Grybko: Hello, Kelton. Thanks for having me back. Kelton Reid: We’re back with a segment that we call The Writer’s Brain, and I think we’ve been building up to this episode. It s the third part of, I guess we could say, a multi-part series. We’ve talked about how neuroscience looks at creativity, right? Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: That’s an important building block, and then we have talked about how you look at empathy, and the importance of both of those in good writing. Michael Grybko: Right. Why Storytelling Is the Default Mode of Human Communication Kelton Reid: Here we are, and I think this is the piece that we’ve both been kind of itching to talk about. Michael Grybko: Right, we’ve been building up to this. Kelton Reid: Yeah, how neuroscience looks at storytelling. This is cool stuff. Anyway, let’s get into it. We know what storytelling is. We are constantly telling each other stories and ourselves stories, but why do human beings tell stories? Why is that the default mode of our civilization or our communication at this point? Michael Grybko: Right, yeah, it’s a big question. There’s a lot going on there, and it’s really pretty fascinating. In anticipation of this, I’ve been thinking about it for a while, and obviously there’s something there, you know? Storytelling has been going on for a long, long time. There’s evidence of it in I don’t know how many — I don’t want to say every culture — but many cultures have some form of storytelling, and it goes back pretty much as far as we can see. Kelton Reid: Sure. Twenty thousand years or so? Michael Grybko: Yeah. Maybe longer, you know. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: The record is just so good and well-kept. We can’t say for sure how long it’s been going on. Kelton Reid: Forever. Michael Grybko: It seems like a part of humanity, part of what makes us human. That’s the first interesting question: if it’s been going on this long, carried on, and you see the rise in different cultures, possibly independently, why? There’s got to be a reason for it. One of the main things, I think, is that storytelling has proven an effective means of delivering information. When I think of storytelling now and the purpose of storytelling, it seems to span this spectrum to me, where you have really didactic storytelling — a story that has a lot of moral meaning, or some lesson to be learned at the end — to storytelling that’s more pleasurable, that we just do for enjoyment. Kelton Reid: Escapism. Michael Grybko: Yeah, yeah. And so I think the important part is the didactic point, and I think that’s what’s carried it along this long. It s an effective way to deliver information. The question is why? Why is it better tell a story than to spew out facts or tell someone straight-up what’s going on? Kelton Reid: Yeah. How Empathy Makes Storytelling Such an Effective Tool Michael Grybko: This is why I think our previous conversations are a good segue into this about creativity, and empathy. It’s empathy, I think, which is why storytelling is such an effective mechanism. Last time, we talked about empathy, and empathy in marketing and why that was important and why it’s important to have this emotional response in the audience. Basically — I don’t want to rehash the whole thing again — information is more memorable when we add weight to it. A great way to add weight is to trigger an emotional response in the viewer. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: A great way to do this is if the viewer is empathizing with the characters in the story. Therefore, if we write a good story, it’s more likely the viewers will empathize with the characters, and then the content of that story will be more memorable. Kelton Reid: Yeah, so we’re giving order to kind of a world of chaos and rote facts or just random streams of information. They’re not writing these pathways that we need to learn without that storytelling element. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: So this is something that has been around forever, because it’s an effective tool for learning. Michael Grybko: Right, and I think it’s because it’s tapping into someone’s emotion, their sense of empathy, and this theory of mind. It keeps our attention better, and then also, by attaching that emotion to it, it makes it more memorable. What’s interesting, we talked about during our empathy conversation, the discovery of mirror systems. These are systems that are active when an individual performs an action or witnesses someone else performing an action. A similar experiment was done with reading. So a group in Washington University in St. Louis, which was led by Jeffery Zacks, did a similar study, again using MRI, which we talked about before, so I won’t go into it too deeply, but it’s a way of inferring brain activity in certain regions by measuring an increase in blood flow. This group, using fMRI, showed that brain areas involved in things like spatial location, goal-directed activity, and object manipulation became active at points in the observer that correlated to aspects of a story that the observer was reading. We see again that there’s evidence that mirroring behavior is triggered when we read a story, just like it would be if we were witnessing an event. It looks like the same thing is happening here. It s where you read a story, and we trigger this empathy, and it s a part of us is living the story. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Our brain is acting as if we were going through the same situations. That’s why storytelling is so powerful and probably why it’s been around for so long. Kelton Reid: This is why Hollywood makes billions and billions of dollars capitalizing on telling and retelling the same stories over and over, because it’s impossible for us to really resist that. Michael Grybko: Yeah, just getting immersed. Kelton Reid: The draw, yeah. Then being whisked away by these mono-myths, so to speak. I know I’ve brought this up before, but in screenwriting, they give you two books when you start studying the art of writing stories for the screen. The first one is Joseph Campbell’s The Hero with a Thousand Faces, where lots of marketers and writers talk about the hero’s journey, and that formula for storytelling. Michael Grybko: It’s a popular one. Kelton Reid: Take any of these great stories — you kind of become the hero when you get truly swept away by a great story. That’s why Disney does so well, and that’s why George Lucas, admittedly, had tapped into Joseph Campbell’s structure for mythology. To come back to storytelling and why it is so effective, or at least why we do it, and how to really do it better, I guess, is where we’re going with this. Michael Grybko: Right, and that’s another thing. Another aspect I thought about storytelling when I was preparing for this is, and you kind of brought it up, is that we’re all telling stories. I think stories actually help the person who is telling the story, and this gets into advice that was given to me and advice I pass on to people now when I’m preparing a scientific presentation. That’s make a story out of it, and it should have a flow. I thought about this as I was preparing for this, for our podcast here on storytelling. Why is that? Why do I give this advice? And I really started thinking about it. As a presenter, it helps us line up our facts. When we get really immersed into a certain topic, and we have to present on that topic, if it’s a data-heavy or fact-heavy topic we have to present, it’s really easy for the presenter to get up there and just start spewing out facts. Kelton Reid: Right. Michael Grybko: This is because the presenter sees the connectedness of all these facts. To the audience, who isn’t as familiar with this information, who doesn’t know all these connections, it can be very confusing if you go up there and just start spewing facts. When I think of a scientific presentation, when I try to line it up as a story, and when I think about making a story out of it, what I’m doing is lining up these facts in a logical way and creating a narrative that helps me present the information with a flow in a logical way to the audience. I think storytelling, also, not only are there these benefits of the audience empathizing and having an emotional response and being more interested in the information being presented, but there’s also the benefit to the storyteller to force that person into making a logical story out of the information they’re presenting. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: It’s not just a jumbled mess, a bunch of facts getting thrown at you. So that’s a benefit of storytelling as well. Kelton Reid: When I think of great storytelling, at least from a scientific standpoint, I think of like these great TED Talks that you’ll stumble upon or discover, that are really great stories being told by charismatic or truly compelling individuals, you know? Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: I’m certain that there are truly intelligent people that can’t do that. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: They can’t get up … Michael Grybko: Yeah, it’s a skill. It s something you have to work at, something that I’ve worked at. Like I said, this is advice I give to graduate students and things now when they’re presenting their talks. It’s a hurdle that a lot of people have to get over. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Why Hollywood Continually Taps into The Hero s Journey Michael Grybko: I like that you brought up TED Talks again, and science, because that’s a theme I’ve seen in a lot of TED Talks. They all seem to be this kind of hero theme, you know? Even the science ones and whatever, it’s some certain molecule, or even that person’s personal quest, but you see that sort of hero conquering. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: It’s still present even in science talks. It follows that format. Kelton Reid: It does, it does. I was going to mention the second screenwriting book really quick that they give you when you walk through the door, is Robert McKee s Story, and McKee basically breaks a great story into five parts. It s inciting incident, progressive complications , a crisis, climax, and resolution. Seriously, when you look at a TED Talk that has a million views … Michael Grybko: I think they all got that book. Kelton Reid: Yeah, you can put that five-part template on top of those and see exactly why they’re so effective. How Blueprints Help Writers Connect with Their Audience Michael Grybko: Yeah, so storytelling, whether it’s some fictitious tale or you’re trying to deliver a fact-burdened story, a fact-burdened message, it has a similar theme, a similar blueprint to the structure of it. Kelton Reid: Yeah, I like that you say blueprint. And so many facets of the different storytelling departments — as in screenwriting, playwriting, TV writing, copywriting — they all use blueprints, at least at the start, for mapping out. Michael Grybko: Sure. Kelton Reid: These blueprints aren’t necessarily designed to help you find original material. That’s up to you. Clearly, each and every audience is going to respond better to a different type of story. Michael Grybko: Yep. Kelton Reid: Those blueprints are helpful starting out. Michael Grybko: Yeah. It s How are you going to arrange the information you’re delivering? That’s what’s important. Why Reading Fiction Makes Us More Empathetic Kelton Reid: Yeah, so let’s talk a little bit more about, does reading fiction make us more empathetic? Does reading, or even watching fictional stories, make us more empathetic? We both read this article in The Guardian. Michael Grybko: Yes, yeah, The Guardian, the Reading improves empathy, study finds. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Well, you can talk a little bit more about this from your perspective, but I don’t know. I think great writing certainly helps us to work out different problems in our own lives. Michael Grybko: Sure. Kelton Reid: Even thought they might not be the exact problems we’re having. I think this is why great writers are masters of brevity. They don’t tell the whole story. They’re painting the canvas with really bold brush strokes, but leaving a lot to the imagination. Michael Grybko: Right, right. Kelton Reid: Maybe you could touch on that a little bit. Is that valid? Does studying stories make us more empathetic? Michael Grybko: Well, I think the article published in The Guardian does a pretty good job at summarizing the original article, which I found. This was published by Kidd and Castano, if I’m pronouncing that right. The article is Reading Literary Fiction Improves Theory of Mind. That s the original research article. Yeah, it seems like their findings are accurately described in the Guardian article. Basically, they had people read some passages, some literary passages, and then gave them some tests to see if their sense of empathy and theory of mind were improved. These tests have been pretty well vetted, so the conclusion was, that yes, reading literary fiction enhances the ability to detect and understand other people’s emotions. Basically, we have to talk about theory of mind here a little bit and describe that. Empathy, by itself, is kind of useless. Empathy is just a shared emotion. So if you were angry or sad, and I saw that, I would become angry and sad. That by itself doesn’t do us much good. We just have two sad people instead of one, or two mad people instead of one, and then terrible things happen. That’s how wars start. Theory of mind is also referred to as mentalizing or mentalization. This is our ability to draw a conclusion as to why the person we’re observing is having a certain response. This, in turn, allows us to take action. So I can do something to alleviate, or try to alleviate, your sadness or anger. If you think about it, this is a very important aspect of us being human and us living in societies. If witnessing and reading literary fiction and partaking in storytelling, increases our theory of mind, we may end up being better people and taking more appropriate action to alleviate conflict or emotional pain in our fellow humans. Now I’m kind of stretching it out a bit here. In the original article, they were only able to look at shortly after an individual read a literary passage. It’s hard to say if this was a long-lasting effect or not. I guess we’re getting into the edge of what neuroscience can really test empirically on the subject and delving into the speculation aspect of it. Kelton Reid: Just a quick pause to mention that The Writer Files is brought to you by the Rainmaker Platform, the complete website solution for content marketers and online entrepreneurs. Find out more, and take a free 14-day test drive at Rainmaker.FM/Platform. I guess the next logical question is, I hear so many writers say that at the end of the day to unwind they will pick up a good book, or turn on the Netflix and watch their favorite show, and they’re escaping into a story, basically. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: These same people who create these vast, amazing stories are spending lots of time studying story. Basically, what is it about the story that we find so pleasurable? Michael Grybko: Right. Writers Addiction To Stories (Especially The Dark Ones) Kelton Reid: Why can’t we get enough story? I feel like we spend our whole lives inundated with stories, and we just keep going back. Michael Grybko: Yeah, I agree. Kelton Reid: Like it’s so hard to escape it. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: But we love it, it’s an addiction, right? Michael Grybko: It’s an interesting question, and going back to beginning of our conversation, storytelling spans this spectrum from didactic to purely pleasurable. Kelton Reid: When you say didactic, I keep thinking the Bible. That’s like didactic text. Michael Grybko: Almost. There’s a lot of storytelling. When you think of children’s stories, things like that, they’re meant to teach morals and values and how to behave. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: You can even think of other texts that work like that. Storytelling is prone to be an effective means to do that. A lot of cultures, I think, also use storytelling as sort of an archive of their history. Kelton Reid: Right. Michael Grybko: They don’t have written libraries, and storytelling has been important in that sense, to pass along traditions and the history of their society or culture. Kelton Reid: Sure, and isn’t that because so much of it was verbal? Michael Grybko: Right, but then they would enshrine things in stories, almost, because it made it a better way to deliver the message. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: Instead of, again, just spewing out facts, and that’s because it’s pleasurable, getting back to what you’re talking about. From a neuroscience perspective, I think we can have a pretty good idea of why it’s effective, why storytelling is effective at delivering facts and information. What we don’t have a great idea about is why is it so pleasurable? This is a very, very difficult question to answer empirically. That’s because storytelling is a complex human behavior, and as far as I know, there isn’t another animal out there that does this. For these reasons, it makes it very difficult to study on neuronal level. It s a complex human behavior, and we don’t have any good animal models to use. Furthermore, if you look at the mechanisms we’re using to look at it, something like MRI, again, this is a machine, big clunky machine, that you have to sit in. To really get at why storytelling is important, someone would have to spend a lot of time in an MRI machine to find out what’s going on in their brain over time. That’s just not practical. Unfortunately we’ve kind of reached the edge of the capabilities of neuroscience and our technical abilities. But I think we can speculate a bit on this, of the pleasure aspect, and I think that’s why this article by Kidd and Castano is so important. It s starting to answer some of these questions. If our sense of empathy and theory of mind increase with storytelling, I can envision that over time, we ve built up a neuronal reward mechanism when we encounter storytelling. These are seen throughout the nervous system. We have a dopamine system, an opiate system, these hedonic centers of the brain that become activated when something pleasurable is happening. We have sugary food, or fatty food, and I think possibly storytelling may be activating the same centers, too. The question is, why would this happen? This article by Kidd and Castano may have the answer. If it is increasing our theory of mind and improving our interactions with other people and making us more pleasant and easier to get along, groups of people, that may be why it’s so pleasurable. Because we are social. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: This is so important to our success, our ability to act in groups and to form societies. If what we’re getting out of storytelling is an improved sense of community and society, there may be a system there that’s encouraging it. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: So I’ll have to find out, or some neuroscientists are going to have to thinking of a way to test this little theory of mine here. Kelton Reid: You want to put me in an MRI and have me watch the entirety of Game of Thrones from start to finish? Michael Grybko: Hell, if you’re volunteering, if you want to sit in an MRI for — I don’t know, that would take days I think — maybe we could find out what’s going on, yeah. Kelton Reid: That brings me to another question, which I’m sure that we can’t answer in this span of this podcast, but why do we like tragedies so much? Like from Shakespeare to Game of Thrones, for instance. Michael Grybko: Yeah, that’s just gory stuff. And we like it. Kelton Reid: Why are we so attracted to these dark stories like Gone Girl, or House of Cards, or I think of a guy who built his whole career around dark, darker places in our mind like Stephen King. Then I think about, storytelling can’t be all wish fulfillment, because that’s boring. Michael Grybko: Right, yeah. No one wants to watch Disney all the time, right? Kelton Reid: Disney taps into the story archetypes, too. There’s always an inciting incident. Something bad usually happens. Someone gets lost, or someone is dead. They usually start with a heartbreaking turn. Michael Grybko: Bambi? I mean, come on. Kelton Reid: It’s almost like that’s kind of built-in. I’m sure there’s not an answer to that question, but think about the last few great stories, or TV shows, or movies, that you saw. They probably include some element of tragedy to them. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: I don’t know, I think of a recent young adult hit. It s John Green’s Fault in Our Stars, and it’s about a young woman who is dying of cancer, right? That’s the premise. Then she falls in love with another young man who is also dying of cancer. That was a very popular book. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: And a very popular movie, and we can’t get enough. Michael Grybko: Breaking Bad. Kelton Reid: Breaking Bad. We love a good antihero. Michael Grybko: That’s got drug dealers, and cancer — that’s got it all. All the dark stuff. Kelton Reid: Why do you think that is? Can you speculate on that at all? What Stories Have in Common with Flight Simulators Michael Grybko: Yeah, again, it’s hard to really peer into the mind and get a neural understanding of what’s going on in the neurons to answer this question. Storytelling, another aspect to it, when we immerse ourselves in stories, it becomes sort of a testing ground for these life situations and for our emotions and social interactions. What we’re doing is we may be able to play with our own emotions and learn about these interactions and test our theory of mind in a safe setting, because in the end, we can walk away from it unscathed. The advantage may be that somehow, we’re learning how to deal with these situations in a safe zone, if you will, so when we do encounter them in the real world, we’ll be better emotionally prepared and socially prepared. We’ll have a better reaction to that person who is going through something. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: Being harassed by a psychopathic, drug-dealing meth-head. Yeah. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Or the white walkers are chasing him down. Kelton Reid: Well I think Jonathan Gottschall in his book, The Storytelling Animal, did say that fiction is an ancient form of problem-solving, and it does strengthen and reinforce those neuro-pathways that help us to learn. I think the metaphors that he used was, or a simile, was that airline pilots learn from simulators. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: That’s how they keep cool under pressure with thousands of lives at stake, hundreds of lives, tens of hundreds of lives? I don’t know, how many people sit on a plane? Michael Grybko: Hundreds. Kelton Reid: Hundreds of lives at stake thousands of feet in the air in a giant piece of metal rocketing through the sky. How do they keep their cool? Well they’ve learned to keep their cool through thousands of hours of flight simulation. Michael Grybko: Yeah, so storytelling may be our flight simulator. Kelton Reid: For life. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: Interesting, interesting. Michael Grybko: One more, I want to bring up, and this important in storytelling, is for that to be effective — I think this is important for writers to keep in mind — if storytelling is a testing ground, this flight simulator, where we can test things that are really extraordinary, maybe situations we would never encounter, what s important for the writers to keep in mind is you also can’t make it so out there that you lose the audience. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: As soon as the audience loses that empathy, that connection, that believability, then the message is not going to come across. Kelton Reid: Sure. Michael Grybko: As soon as you think, This will never happen in real life, then it’s game over. Kelton Reid: Right. Michael Grybko: Those are the great authors to me, or the great storytellers. They re the ones that can really take you out there and keep your attention and keep you believing. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Well, kind of like how you flip through Netflix. You can be flipping through Netflix for an hour before you find a show you, and/or whomever you’re watching TV with, agree on based on your mood. Probably writers in whatever, to whomever they’re writing for, need to take into consideration their audience first. I know we’ve talked about that before also. Michael Grybko: Right. Kelton Reid: That the kind of story you’re telling really needs to be targeted to your audience. Michael Grybko: Yeah, you have to know your audience. Kelton Reid: You have to know your audience, and you have to know their hopes, dreams, fears, and what mood they’re going to be in when they find whatever it is you’re writing. Michael Grybko: It’s hard to do. Where Humanity Would Be without Storytelling Kelton Reid: Whether you’re doing marketing or writing something purely to entertain people. Anyway, where would we be without storytelling? I guess that’s the million dollar question. Michael Grybko: Yeah, it’d be boring. Kelton Reid: Life would suck, I think. We wouldn’t daydream. We’d just be worker bees. We’d be drones. Robots. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: Do androids dream of electric sheep? Michael Grybko: Yeah, I don’t know. It seems like storytelling is so coupled to humanity, like we were talking about. It s been around forever, and it appears in many cultures. Would we even be here? How powerful is this? How important is it? Clearly we spend a lot of money on movies, books, theater, so it’s important. Kelton Reid: Absolutely, so to tap into great storytelling for the good of humanity, what are we doing? Are we making sure that our audience is the hero at the center of that story that is really well-worn into our psyches already? We’ve been marketed to, and we’ve been read stories from birth, from commercials, to billboards, to storybooks, to movies, and television, and everything. Everything is really a story. Michael Grybko: Yeah, wow. What is the world, is the observer, in the storytelling process? Are they just getting immersed in the fantasy? Or do they actually think they’re running the characters? Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: That’s probably going to vary from story to story, and from individual to individual. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Great storytelling. Kelton Reid: The power of a great story is really in the hands of the writer, I guess, is what we’ll circle back to. Michael Grybko: Right. Well, and the writer understanding his or her audience. Kelton Reid: Every great story starts with a writer. Michael Grybko: Yes. Kelton Reid: Now. Michael Grybko: Yes. But they need something to write about, right? They need some event. So you have this cycle I can see forming here. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: Writers are serving something in the world. They make it interesting, and sell it back to the people they were observing. Kelton Reid: Yeah. Michael Grybko: It’s a great scam you’ve got going there, you writers. Kelton Reid: We really hold the key to unlocking … Michael Grybko: You’re getting all this material from us, and then you’re making us pay to tell us about it. Kelton Reid: Right. It brings us, finally, back to probably input equals output, so the more great storytelling we study, the more we learn and absorb, the better our stories will become. Michael Grybko: Yes. Kelton Reid: Does that make sense? Michael Grybko: Absolutely. It does to me. Kelton Reid: All right. Michael, I think we have reached a suitable conclusion, although I’m sure that you and I could talk about this for another hour or two. Michael Grybko: Yeah. Kelton Reid: As we have in the past. But I think we’ll wrap it up there. Michael Grybko: All right. Kelton Reid: Thank you very much for your time and for taking a break from your busy schedule over there and for chatting with me again. Michael Grybko: Oh, you’re welcome. I always enjoy these conversations. Kelton Reid: All right, my friend, well I hope that you will revisit us here on The Writer Files. Michael Grybko: Yeah, I’d love to. Kelton Reid: I appreciate your time, and we will revisit The Writer’s Brain very soon. Michael Grybko: Great, thank you. Kelton Reid: Stay curious, my friends. Remember it’s no secret why great stories run the world. Thanks for joining me a glimpse into the workings of the writer’s brain. For more episodes of The Writer Files or to leave us a comment or a question, drop by WriterFiles.FM. You can always chat with me on Twitter, @KeltonReid. Cheers, see you out there.

Learn how the mind yields helplessly to the suction of story from New York Times Best Selling Author Jonathan Gottschall. For more information on Jonathan and his books you can visit his website. The Business of Story is sponsored by ACT! and Zignal Labs. ACT! helps individuals, small businesses, and sales teams organize prospect and customer details in just one place, ultimately driving sales. Visit http://actstory.com and enter to win a pair of BOSE noice-cancelling headphones. Zignal Labs is a real-time cross-media story tracking platform to make your life easier to see relevant data and reach your customers where they are. Stay ahead of what the world thinks with a free trial at http://zignallabs.com/story.

Jonathan Gottschall is an American literary scholar specializing in literature and evolution. He teaches at Washington and Jefferson College in Pennsylvania and his latest book, The Professor in the Cage, is available now. http://jonathangottschall.com/

Jonathan Gottschall is an American literary scholar specializing in literature and evolution. He teaches at Washington and Jefferson College in Pennsylvania and his latest book, The Professor in the Cage, is available now. http://jonathangottschall.com/

Kathryn interviews Washington & Jefferson College Distinguished Research Fellow Jonathan Gottschall on his latest book “The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch”. Throughout the last decade, cage fighting and mixed martial arts (MMA) have evolved to the fastest-growing spectator sport in America. The surging popularity is just one example of our insatiable interest not just in violence but in the rituals that keep violence contained. Gottschall argues that taming male violence through ritualized combat has been a hidden key to the success of the human race. Kathryn also interviews financial expert Meredith Jones, author of “Women of the Street: Why Female Money Managers Generate Higher Returns (And How You Can Too)”. Research reveals that women investors consistently outperform men. Jones argues that better trading behavior, ‘out of the box' thinking, and a more consistent execution of strategy are some of the keys to women's outperformance.

Kathryn interviews Washington & Jefferson College Distinguished Research Fellow Jonathan Gottschall on his latest book “The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch”. Throughout the last decade, cage fighting and mixed martial arts (MMA) have evolved to the fastest-growing spectator sport in America. The surging popularity is just one example of our insatiable interest not just in violence but in the rituals that keep violence contained. Gottschall argues that taming male violence through ritualized combat has been a hidden key to the success of the human race. Kathryn also interviews financial expert Meredith Jones, author of “Women of the Street: Why Female Money Managers Generate Higher Returns (And How You Can Too)”. Research reveals that women investors consistently outperform men. Jones argues that better trading behavior, ‘out of the box' thinking, and a more consistent execution of strategy are some of the keys to women's outperformance.

Millions of people paid to watch the Mayweather Pacquiao boxing match. Why? On this episode, we talk with English professor and cage fighter Dr. Jonathan Gottschall.

Hundred of years ago if men wanted to settle a personal matter, even a political one, they picked up swords or guns and dueled their way to resolution.  We all remember everything from d'Artagnan to the Gunfight at the OK Corral.Today there are many that seem to long for a return to those days.  And while they are hardly condoned by respectable public standards, they still percolate within the heart of many men, for whom testosterone laden violence is still deeply programmed into their DNA.  Jonathan Gottschall, a mild mannered English Professor, decides, like Kurtz to journey into the heart of darkness to understand  what makes men, our society and our culture so prone to embracing violenceIf the first rule of Fight Club is not to talk about Fight Club, Jonathan Gottschall breaks that rule with The Professor in the Cage: Why Men Fight and Why We Like to Watch.My conversation with Jonathan Gottschall:

Jonathan Gottschall was an associate professor of English whose career had stalled in mid-life. Then one day he looked out his office and saw an MMA gym and he decided he was going to train to become a fighter to prove something to himself and to write a book about the biology, anthropology, and sociology of male violence. In the process, many of his assumptions about violence and masculinity changed. What he once saw as something terrible and despicable, came to be seen with some nuance. Part memoir, part anthropologic treatise, Gotschall's book The Professor in the Cage is a fascinating look at the role of violence in masculinity. In this episode I talk to Gottschall about violence and masculinity and why getting in a fight may be the best thing a man can do for himself.

From binge watching to virtual reality, today’s entertainment is getting more immersive both physically and psychologically. As the way we experience stories is evolving to where we no longer separate ourselves from the action, how does this affect the way storytellers are producing their work? This "Immerse Yourself" panel includes The Art of Immersion author Frank Rose, The Storytelling Animal author Jonathan Gottschall, and futurist and "Shots of Awe" video series creator Jason Silva. Journalist Jon Erlichman moderates.

JONATHAN GOTTSCHALL (https://www.edge.org/memberbio/jonathan_gottschall) is a Distinguished Research Fellow in the English Department at Washington & Jefferson College. He is the author or editor of six books, including The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human (a New York Times _Editor’s Choice Selection and a finalist for the _LA Times _Book Prize). The Conversation: https://www.edge.org/conversation/jonathangottschall-the-way-we-live-our-lives-in-stories

Money, and the stories we tell ourselves about it and everything else around us, is the focus of conversation this week.Stuff mentioned in this conversation:Bitcoin and Simon’s Bitcoin article.Mark Boyle, the Moneyless Man and an interview with him.La Digue island in the Seychelles.You Are Now Less Dumb by David McRaney.Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely.Nassim Taleb, the Twitter curmudgeon.The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall.David Blaine’s Real or Magic.The Renamer. “The three most harmful addictions are heroin,carbohydrates, and a monthly salary. ” — Maybe Nassim Taleb

Listen as Garrett Pelko interviews Jonathan Gottschall and Dan Clouser about the winning mentality of Berkshire Baseball.

Listen as Garrett Pelko interviews Jonathan Gottschall and Dan Clouser about the winning mentality of Berkshire Baseball.

Listen as Jonathan describes the "pay it forward" effects of playing for Berkshire Baseball!

Listen as Jonathan describes the "pay it forward" effects of playing for Berkshire Baseball!

Aired 12/02/12 Last July in an interview with Charlie Rose, President Obama said that "the mistake" of the early years of his presidency was his failure to be a better storyteller. "The mistake of my first couple of years was thinking that this job was just about getting the policy right. And that's important, but the nature of this office is also to tell a story to the American people that gives them a sense of unity and purpose and optimism, especially during tough times." In a second term, he said, he would "spend more time with the American people, listening to them, but also being in a conversation with them about where do we go as a country?" This week's show is not about Obama or politics. It's about story and narrative. My guest is JONATHAN GOTTSCHALL author of THE STORYTELLING ANIMAL. The late evolutionary biologist Steven Jay Gould called humans "the primate who tells stories..." And it's not just Gould. Anthropologists have found societies that have existed for millennia without the wheel, but they've never found one that doesn't tell stories. My website leads with a quote: "On the radio, I tell stories of a world that just might work. As a consultant, I help you tell yours." Building on time as a teacher, two decades in the entertainment industry, and 15 years of radio interviews, I help non-profits, foundations, public agencies, and businesses to tell better stories and build better narratives. I'm eager to learn from Jonathan what the latest science has to tell us. Why is narrative so powerful? What is its evolutionary value? And can what we're learning help us get even better at tapping its power? http://jonathangottschall.com

Episode 48 of Books and Ideas is interview with Jonathan Gottschall, author of "The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human." Show notes and free episode transcripts are available at http://booksandideas.com Send feedback to Dr. Campbell at gincampbell at mac dot com. Follow her on Twitter as @docartemis.

I've been nipping at the edges of this subject for a while on previous shows, and now I've found someone to tackle it head-on: Jonathan Gottschall, author of "The Storytelling Animal: How Stories Make Us Human." Jonathan and I discussed the central place of narrative not only in art and entertainment, but in our deep understanding of the world and ourselves. With us humans, it's storytime all the time, or at least much of the time. We talked about storytelling's pervasive influence, possible evolutionary explanations, its hazards and if/how we ever escape its confines.

A conversation about what's wrong with literary studies and a possible way forward with Jonathan Gottschall, English instructor at Washington and Jefferson College and author of Science, Literature and a New Humanities.