Let's Think Digital

This is the final episode of the Let's Think Digital podcast in its current form. I've been thinking a lot about transitions recently. Last month, I had the honour of being asked to serve as Vice President of Learning and Leadership at the Institute of Governance. The IOG is a not-for-profit, non-partisan organization that I've worked with for a number of years that does important work to advance good public governance. Its mission is needed now more than ever as governments are under increased expectations to modernize and evolve to meet the moment. I'm excited to take on this challenge and bring my work from Think Digital under IOG's banner.With this change, it seemed like the right time to think about the future of this podcast as well. It has been a really amazing experience hosting the podcast these past three seasons and I'm very proud of what we've been able to produce and share with our broader community through it. The goal was always to help spark greater awareness and more conversations about what it means to have a modern, effective government in a digital world. I feel like we've been able to help move this discussion forward. I'm also heartened that increasingly others are raising these issues and adding their voices to the mix. However for me personally, this felt like the right time to bring this particular iteration of the podcast to a close for now.So on this final episode, I wanted to share my thoughts about transitions. Not just for me personally, but also about the transition that institutions and society are facing in this current moment of uncertainty and change we are all in. And of course, I wanted to take the time to thank all of you for joining us on this journey over the last few years. It's been an absolute joy and pleasure to bring you these conversations and I'm so grateful for our growing audience of thousands of people from across Canada and dozens of countries around the world. Please stay subscribed and engaged, as I do hope that we will continue to be able to bring you content and perspective from time to time from myself and our colleagues in the digital government ecosystem.Finally my sincere thanks to our team and everyone who has contributed to building and producing Let's Think Digital over the past few years. In particular I want to thank our producer (and my friend) Wayne Chu, as without his hard work and dedication none of this would have happened.My sincerest thanks again, and as always, let's keep thinking digital!-Ryan Androsoff, Host of Let's Think DigitalWatch on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/bSuHinHC4Ps?si=Apa0EuQcQudH-isbRelated LinksRyan on CBC Radio's The Current with Matt Galloway talking about Estonia's digital transformation and lessons for CanadaRyan on Derek Alton's Civic Punks talking about why Canada has declined in international rankings around digital governmentRyan on the GovMaker podcast with Nick Scott and Jason Pearman talking about his career journey and advice on how to innovate in governmentKathryn May's The Functionary newsletter

To change systems, sometimes you need to bend the rules, or even rewrite them. That's the argument that Alistair Croll and Emily Ross make in their new book, Just Evil Enough: The Subversive Marketing Handbook. In this episode we speak to Alistair about his new book, which offers numerous case studies and frameworks on how to drive change with subversive tactics while keeping in mind how far is too far. Indeed, one chapter in the book is titled: "Don't Actually be Evil"!This is particularly relevant in this year of transition and change. Whether it is elections and new government mandates coming in Canada (and a new Prime Minister, or maybe two!), or the shocking takeover of government systems in the United States by Elon Musk's "Department of Government Efficiency", it's important to understand the ways in which people are able to disrupt systems that resist change.Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I21jkJ98W6ARelated LinksJust Evil Enough: The Subversive Marketing Handbook, by Alistair Croll and Emily RossChapters00:00 Introduction02:04 Interview with Alistair10:18 How Much Change Can Government Absorb?21:55 Are Leaders Equipped to Understand Change?31:42 Looking to the Future38:44 Conclusion

Data is the lifeblood of any organization, including government. And in today's digital age, there are very real questions about whether governments are capable of managing the enormous amount of data that is now collected. We're no longer in an era where data was created at human scale with pen and paper on a government form. Instead, governments are increasingly being flooded with an avalanche of digital data from a huge number of sources. And there are high expectations that governments are able to use these data points to make better decisions, that data is managed responsibility, and that the people in government have the ability to consume all of this data in an increasingly complex world.Not only that, but governments now need to be prepared for the rapid evolution of artificial intelligence and the increasing incorporation of machine learning models, semantic analysis, and algorithmic decision-making applications in programs and service delivery. These are technologies built on big data, and governments need to be prepared to leverage them in the public interest.So this week, we're talking to three people (and one Artificial Intelligence!) who have been thinking deeply about the policy and capacity challenges that governments need to get ahead of when it comes to their data posture.Our first conversation is with Maddy Dwyer, a Policy Analyst from the Center for Democracy and Technology. Maddy has been conducting research on the tension between leveraging data to improve the lives of citizens, including those from marginalized communities, and the dangers if we don't do this responsibility. This conversation took place last November on the conference floor at FWD50 in Ottawa.The second conversation is with Anna Wong, a Director at the Government of Canada's Treasury Board Secretariat, and Trevor Banks, Manager of Digital Organisational Design in the same team. They have been working on efforts to support organizational change across the Federal government to establish clear accountabilities and responsibilities for Chief Data Officers and other senior digital and data leaders across the public service to help them manage the quickly rising expectations of government in the age of AI.And, as a fun little experiment, our third conversation is directly with what is perhaps the most famous AI model in the world these days: OpenAI's ChatGPT. Using ChatGPT's voice input/output feature we ask it what it thinks about all of these issues around data and AI in government we're hearing about. Ryan also asks it his favourite hard-hitting AI question: does it think it is smarter than his cats?Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgB7KcmXaZARelated LinksMaddy Dwyer's research at the Center for Democracy and Technology2023-2026 Data Strategy for the Federal Public ServiceThe Evolving Role of the Chief Data Officer, report by the Institute on GovernanceChapters00:00 Introduction03:02 Maddy Dwyer 20:54 Anna Wong and Trevor Banks46:36 Interview with ChatGPT1:01:37 Conclusion

International assistance and aid can help bring people out of poverty, build peace and security, and drive economic prosperity. For Canada, it's also a major source of its soft power globally. In fact, Global Affairs Canada delivers around $15 billion dollars a year in international assistance, of which approximately $6 billion is delivered through what is known in the federal government as “Grants and Contributions” to non-governmental agencies, charities, and other partners around the world. And while the amount and form of international aid given by Canada can sometimes be a divisive political topic and a difficult policy challenge, it's fair to say that everyone wants to see those international assistance dollars used as effectively as possible.So why are we talking about international aid and assistance on Let's Think Digital?There's a really interesting digital transformation project happening right now at Global Affairs Canada. This multi-year initiative, being undertaken in partnership with the public interest tech non-profit, Code for Canada, is hoping to transform how Global Affairs administers its Grants and Contributions programs. The goal is to completely modernize what have traditionally been outdated, siloed, manual processes, leading to more effective international assistance programs.It's a pretty interesting project that has aspects of many common challenges we see in government digital transformation. To tell us all about it, we spoke to Brandon Lee, Director General of the Grants and Contributions Transformation Initiative at Global Affairs Canada, and Dorothy Eng, CEO of Code for Canada and friend of the podcast. We spoke to them last November on site at the FWD50 Conference in Ottawa.Watch on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/J8R0zES1COE?si=lFMGqzMU99MQA7HqRelated LinksGlobal Affairs Canada Grants and Contributions Transformation InitiativeRisk Appetite Hackathon ReportCode for CanadaChapters00:00 Introduction02:01 Brandon Lee and Dorothy Eng03:37 Challenges in Grants and Contributions09:43 Code for Canada's Role in the Transformation15:37 Implementing Agile in Government23:36 Expected Outcomes and Success Metrics29:45 Digital Diplomacy and Broader Impacts32:43 Conclusion and Closing Remarks

As much as we talk on this podcast about transforming and modernizing governments and bureaucracies, we can't ignore the role of the private sector which is often working in very embedded ways with government when it comes to all things digital. Whether it's the role of private tech firms and consultants and their complex and sometimes contested relationship with governments, or the impact of the economic, technological, and even the growing diplomatic power of big tech firms like Google, Facebook, Microsoft or Amazon, there is an increasing level of skepticism about the role that tech companies are playing, their power and influence in society, and lingering questions about if we've struck the right balance.On this episode, we talk to Dr. Alexis Wichowski, who has written a book about these issues called "The Information Trade: How Big Tech Conquers Countries, Challenges Our Rights, and Transforms Our World." In the book, she talks about the metamorphosis of big tech from simply companies with market power to entities that can mimic or act like states in their own right.Dr. Wichowski is a Professor of Practice at Columbia University, where she teaches the next generation of leaders about the intersections of technology and public service. Before that, she served as the Deputy CTO for the City of New York, Associate Commissioner for NYC's Department of Veterans' Services, and various roles within the US Department of State and the US Mission to the United Nations. In our wide-ranging conversation, held at the FWD50 conference in Ottawa last November, we spoke about the capacity of bureaucracies to drive digital transformation, the competencies needed in government to thrive in the digital era, and how governments can adapt to the growing power of big tech in society.Watch on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/5dPbg4GogCQ?si=fKLIlVOAcTG8bEYBRelated LinksThe Information Trade: How Big Tech Conquers Countries, Challenges Our Rights, and Transforms Our WorldAlexis Wichowski's WebsiteDr. Alexis Wichowski's Research Page at Columbia UniversityChapters00:00 Introduction03:04 Alexis Wichowski10:25 Teaching the Next Generation of Leaders15:35 The Power of Big Tech on our Lives22:03 Big Tech and Diplomatic Power28:18 Technology Consultants

Trust is everything. It's clear we're in a moment in time where people do not trust their governments. There is skepticism about the impact of big technology companies, concerns about new technologies like artificial intelligence, and fear about the future, including the future of our democratic institutions themselves. So we should be concerned about how complex, opaque, and often infuriating bureaucratic systems can further challenge citizens' faith in government and erode trust in those who are there to serve the public. Whether it is navigating complex tax filing rules, trying to access health care supports, or something a simple as getting a passport renewed, delays and failed service delivery experiences raise doubt in the minds of citizens as to government's ability to accomplish even basic tasks. So how can we rebuild this trust?On today's episode, the second of of our two-part deep dive into the Estonian digital modernization journey, we're talking to Andres Raieste, Senior Vice President of Public Sector (Global) at the Estonian-based digital transformation firm Nortal. Andres has over 15 years of experience in digital modernization and began his career in Estonia as a digital government expert. Since then he has been responsible for many high-impact, large-scale government transformation programs and reforms globally, as well as producing thought leadership and developing practices to help governments deliver better digital services to its citizens.Nortal recently released a report on trust, called "Formula for creating trust in digital government" which he talked about on stage at the FWD50 conference in Ottawa last month. So when we met up during his visit to Canada, we talked about why trust is important and how digital services can best create trust in society through small incremental improvements in services rather than focusing on flashy innovation. We even got into a discussion on the role of emerging technologies like blockchain and AI and how to get past the hype and focus on results.Watch on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/FzbyuwzRcrI?si=on3TMZHtfq8Wj00EChapters00:00 Introduction and the Importance of Trust in Government01:27 Rebuilding Trust: The Estonian Digital Transformation03:20 Interview with Andres Raieste07:46 The Role of Trust in Digital Government15:24 Tax Collection and Trust in Estonia23:18 Transparency and Data Ownership in Estonia27:45 Digital Public Infrastructure36:01 Blockchain and Cybersecurity in Estonia43:24 Personal Government48:59 Reducing Complexity in Government Services53:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Follow the digital government space long enough and you will hear about Estonia. Despite being a small country of 1.4 million people with an overall economy that by total size is only 101st in the world, it is a powerhouse in digital government services. In the most recent United Nations e-government ranking, Estonia ranks 2nd in the world, and has been in the top 10 for many years. So what is it about Estonia that has allowed it to leapfrog into being a global digital government leader? On this episode we're going to explore this question with those who have been on the front lines of Estonia's digital government revolution.We're speaking to Estonian Minister of Justice and Digital Affairs Liisa-Ly Pakosta who was recently appointed into that role in July of this year. She has an interesting mandate as both the digital government lead for Estonia as well as leading the Justice portfolio. We also spoke to Siim Sikkut, who was the CIO of the Estonian government between 2017 and 2022 and was one of those responsible for the development of Estonia's e-residency program in his prior role as an advisor on digital government to the Estonian Prime Minister.And we also heard from Ville Sirviö, CEO of the Nordic Institute for Interoperability Solutions, the non-profit that leads development of one of the core pieces of digital infrastructure in Estonia, the X-Road.You can also find the full, uncut interviews with Minister Pakosta, Siim, and Ville on our Let's Think Digital YouTube channel. This is the first of two episodes on the Estonia digital experience. Watch out for our next episode where we delve deep into the topic of trust as a key ingredient for modernizing government. Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ9Tl4c-uUoRelated LinksMinister of Justice and Digital Affairs Liisa-Ly PakostaDigital NationNordic Institute for Interoperability Solutions“There is no blockchain technology in X-Road”, blog post from NIISE-Estonia“How it all began? From Tiger Leap to digital society”, Education EstoniaChapters00:00 Welcome and introductions03:17 Liisa-Ly Pakosta and the Estonian experience07:25 Siim Sikkut and e-residency20:31 Ville Serviö and X-Road26:13 Getting past bureaucratic and political blockers37:25 Improving the foundations50:14 Conclusion

Canada has fallen from 3rd in the 2010 UN e-gov rankings to 47 in 2024. We're stuck when it comes to modernizing government for the digital era. But our guests this week, recorded on location at this year's FWD50 conference in Ottawa, have a new playbook that they say can help get governments in Canada out of the rut and back on track.Anna Hirschfeld and Alex MacEachern and are two of the authors of a new report from the UK-based digital government advisory firm Public Digital called A Radical How for Canada (https://public.digital/where-we-work/canada/a-radical-how-for-canada). It takes inspiration from a similarly titled report that Tom Loosemore and others from Public Digital published last year focused on the UK. It lays out concrete recommendations on the steps that governments in Canada need to take in order to change how government works for the better.Anna has been with Public Digital since 2020 where she is now their Regional Director for Canada. She has supported work with the Nova Scotia and British Columbia provincial governments, as well as other projects back home in the UK. Before that, she worked in the UK government including as the Senior Product Manager on the UK Universal Credit programme, scaling it up from a proof of concept to a live service supporting six million people.Before recently joining Public Digital, Alex was Chief of Staff at the Canadian Digital Service as the team grew from just 30 people to 150, and was involved in a number of significant digital transformation projects in the federal government.Related LinksA Radical How for CanadaWatch on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/kA0cc1mdQ7sChapters00:00 Welcome and Introductions02:41 Interview and Anna and Alex07:40 A Radical How for Canada16:34 Reflections on ArriveCan24:48 Political Transitions38:38 Funding and Procurement46:47 Conclusion

Live on location from the FWD50 conference! In the most recent United Nations e-government rankings Canada has dropped from a high of #3 in 2010 down to #47. We are stalled out while other countries pass us by. There is a real question from many in public service about whether senior leaders have the necessary digital era competencies to get us back to the top of the rankings again. That's why the team at Think Digital ran a workshop at this year's FWD50 conference called "What I Wish My Boss Knew About Digital" to spark discussion and reflection on what it will take to build up the digital competencies of the public service.On today's episode, Ryan kicks-off the conversation with this year's FWD50 hosts, Alistair Croll and Hillary Hartley, about what they were hearing on the conference floor. They talk about how Canada's decline in global e-government rankings is a pervasive theme for participants, and also the importance of events like FWD50 to reenergize those working to spark change. Ryan then has a conversation with Meghan and Nick from the Think Digital team for a debrief on what they heard at the workshop, including the continued importance of getting senior leaders to understand foundational aspects of the technologies that impact so much of our lives in today's world. Watch on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/ioolbJQkAoERelated LinksFWD50 ConferenceWhat I Wish My Boss Knew About DigitalChapters00:00 Alistair Croll and Hillary Hartley from FWD5005:46 Themes at FWD5011:43 Workshop reflections from Meghan and Nick13:44 How knowledgeable are public service leaders?17:00 What did you wish your boss knew?24:32 Importance of curiosity32:37 The path forward41:51 Final workshop reflections

Season 3 premiere! For those of us in the digital transformation and government modernization space, we are feeling tired and burnt out. We heard a lot about this last season where we talked about how it seems like the efforts to modernize how government serves its citizens are stalled. Here in Canada it feels like we're stuck in the mud. We heard about projects stalling and innovation teams being disbanded. Most notably the Ontario Digital Service having been disbanded this past spring.That's why this season on the podcast we're going to explore how we get unstuck, or as our guest this week says, putting in the "hard yards" of actually realizing the promise of digital government and modernization. This week we have Natasha Clarke, the Deputy Minister of Cybersecurity and Digital Solutions in the Government of Nova Scotia. Over the last 25 years, she has worked to build programs and services that are easy and accessible for the people that use them. That includes going from leading a 30 person digital service team to now leading Nova Scotia's shared services department of over 700 people. In our conversation she talks about putting in the hard work of institutionalizing the digital mindset in government, the challenges and benefits of working on digital transformation in a smaller organization at the provincial level, and the work needed to build a strong foundation for modernization that'll result in real structural change over time.Natasha is going to be speaking at the FWD50 conference in Ottawa next week (as are we!) so if you are planning to be there either in-person or virtually be sure to check out our sessions and come say hi!Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBS4gQJ2L4Related LinksNova Scotia Department of Cyber Security and Digital SolutionsNatasha Clarke at FWD50What I wish my boss knew about digital, FWD50 Workshop by Think DigitalChapters00:00 Intro and Welcome03:54 Interview with Natasha Clarke07:43 The Nova Scotia Digital Evolution15:16 Chief Digital Officer vs CIO23:04 Lessons from Around the World29:31 Scaling Digital Transformation33:25 Cybersecurity43:24 Setting Up Generational Change56:42 Conclusion

Let's Think Digital is back for Season Three!  We've heard from experts and leaders in digital modernization about how new technologies have the potential to redefine the way government works in the modern era. From new technologies like artificial intelligence and virtual reality to policy issues like procurement and incentivizing innovation.And we talked about how it seems like we're stuck in the mud when it comes to digital government in Canada.  There's a reason why we've fallen from third in the United Nations global e-government ranking to 47th. We heard  about projects stalling, innovation labs shuttered, and low morale and burnout all across the public sector.So on this, our third season of Let's Think Digital, we're going to talk about how we get unstuck. How do we get past the seemingly intractable bureaucracy? And what does success really look like? Season Three of Let's Think Digital. Coming out later this Fall. Find us wherever you get your podcasts, on YouTube, or at: letsthinkdigital.ca

(Help shape the future of this podcast! Take our Season 2 listener survey at LetsThinkDigital.ca)If there's a running theme this season on the podcast, it's about how we seem to be stuck in the mud when it comes to our efforts to modernize government for the digital age. Check out our previous episodes this season for some insightful and thought-provoking perspectives on why this might be the case.So how do we get unstuck? One of the key factors that many of our guests have pointed to is the need for political leadership. And our guest this week for our Season 2 finale is the perfect person to talk to about this.Terry Beech is the Canadian Minister of Citizens' Services. He was appointed into this role by Prime Minister Trudeau in July of last year with a mandate to drive digital transformation in some high profile service areas, as well as accelerating and expanding the use of the Canadian Digital Service across government.In our interview, we talk about his vision for how to modernize government, the challenges of bringing legacy systems like Old Age Security into the 21st century, why the Canadian Digital Service is needed now more than ever, and how getting voters to care about digital may not be as hard as you might think.Watch on YouTubehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=QsdpMTv9x1QRelated LinksMinister of Citizens' Services Mandate LetterTerry Beech Official BiographyCanadian Digital Service WebsiteSeason 2 Listener SurveyChapters00:00 Intro and Welcome02:56 Interview with Terry Beech14:42 Priorities for the Ministry25:18 Modernizing Old Age Security38:44 The Future of the Canadian Digital Service46:18 Getting Voters to Care55:01 Conclusion

A few weeks ago, I got a late night message on our team's Slack that made me do a double-take and was - to be frank - a real shock. It was a link to a Reddit thread that was titled “Ontario Digital Service is Officially Dead.”ODS had a simple but ambitious mission: transform Ontario's government services and practices for the digital age. It was led by Hillary Hartley, a veteran of digital transformation efforts like 18F in the United States Federal Government, who took on the role of not just leading ODS but serving as the first Chief Digital and Data Officer for the Ontario Government.ODS did groundbreaking work for government: New digital service standards and legislation, building user research labs, and creating really great apps and digital tools. But ODS was about more than just digital products. It was just as much about people. Passionate public servants driven by the belief that interacting with government should be easy and, in Hillary's words, delightful.So it came as a shock when I found out that the Ontario Digital Service was being shut down. Not with a bang, but quietly and without fanfare via an internal memo informing staff that ODS was being disbanded. There has been little public discussion on what ODS' contribution to the Ontario government has been, nor what this decision might mean for other government digital teams or the digital government movement more broadly.On this episode of the podcast, we tell the story of the ODS over the past 7 years, and what it means now that it has ended, from those who were there at the beginning. We hear from Hillary Hartley about leading the ODS as Ontario's first Chief Digital Officer. We also hear from Karim Bardeesy who was Director of Policy and Deputy Principal Secretary for Premiere Kathleen Wynne when ODS was first being conceptualized. Tanya Coyle, was a long time public servant in Ontario who became one of the co-founders of this new digital startup team in the heart of the Ontario government. And Honey Dacanay was part of the founding team of ODS when it was still what we sometimes call in the tech world a “two-pizza team”.Related LinksOntario Digital Service is officially dead (Reddit)Ontario government disbands remnants of Ontario Digital Service by David Reevely, The LogicFirst blogpost by the team that set-up ODSByte-Sized Progress: Assessing Digital Transformation in the Government of Canada, The DaisOntario Digital ServiceWatch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-nZ3G14zyUChapters00:04 Introduction03:11 Hillary Hartley joins the ODS04:33 The role of political leadership11:50 Accomplishments of the ODS21:11 What does the disbanding mean?28:14 Hillary reflects on the end of ODS34:22 Conclusion

It's only been a year since our last episode on artificial intelligence, but already a lot has changed. It seems like Generative AI is everywhere and everyone, including governments, are struggling to keep up. So on this episode Ryan is joined by a special co-host Jen Schellinck, Think Digital Associate and our resident expert on AI and cognitive science to talk about what you need to know when it comes to AI. We're also joined by Paul Craig, the creator of the TaxGPT AI bot, and Shan Gu, Founder and CEO of Foci Solutions. Both Paul and Shan share their experience working with AI projects in and around the public sector and discuss their insights on what they have learned.In our conversation we talk about the current state of AI technology, the questions that governments should be asking when thinking about using AI, and most importantly the question on everyone's mind, who is more intelligent: ChatGPT or Ryan's cat?(Note: At 3:26, Jen refers to a steady state model. She meant to say state space model)Related LinksEpisode 8: Government in the Era of ChatGPTTaxGPTTowards a Considered Use of AI Technologies in Government by The Institute on Governance and Think DigitalWatch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B685AEvbbcIChapters00:00 Introduction and Welcome01:27 The Current State of the Art for Generative AI06:15 AI's Expansion: Beyond Text to Visuals and More10:27 Generative AI in Government: Policies and Adaptation18:04 Paul Craig and TaxGPT24:44 Learnings from Running TaxGPT38:04 Shan Gu and Adopting AI tech in government45:42 The Future of AI in Government: Opportunities and Challenges52:21 Is ChatGPT more intelligent than Ryan's cat?01:08:02 Conclusion

If you haven't heard of FWD50, you should! It's one of the premiere conferences on digital modernization in government and exists to help answer one vital question: How do we use technology to make society better for all? Many of this season's podcast conversations were recorded on location at the conference in Ottawa last November.On this episode of Let's Think Digital you are going to get an opportunity to hear directly from some of the participants in last year's conference. We had set-up a Speakers' Corner booth where we invited anyone at FWD50 who wanted to share their views on what their hope for the future of digital government is and what they think is stopping us from getting there.We kick-off this episode with a wonderful conversation with two of the key founders and organizers of FWD50, Alistair Croll and Rebecca Croll. They talk about what it's like to organize the conference, highlights from the 2023 event, and give us a sneak peek of what they have in store for the 2024 edition and why you should go.Make sure to fill out the 2024 FWD50 content survey and help shape the agenda!Learn more about FWD50 at: https://www.fwd50.com Finally a big thanks to Amy Kirtay, Andy Best, Amanda Bernardo, Liz Christie, Charles Finley, Dea De Jarisco, Roy Nader, Derek Alton, Urooj Qureshi, Pascale Elvas, James Duncan, Jeff Outram, and Lewis Eisen for appearing on the podcast as part of our Speakers' Corner segment!Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHlB3ujyh6EChapters00:04 Introduction01:27 Alistair Croll and Rebecca Croll30:50 Who are you and why are you at FWD50?33:23 What is your vision for government in 2030?36:55 What are the barriers to get there?40:58 Conclusion

It's fair to say that most governments don't choose to use open source by default. Despite efforts over the past two decades to make open source solutions a viable, or even default solution in government, there's still a lot of skepticism. Those in decision making positions often raise concerns around security and reliability compared to proprietary software that is viewed as being “safe” even if it is more expensive and less flexible in many cases.So what should an open source government look like? And why would we want one?To answer these questions, we are joined by Aaron Snow, Faculty Fellow, and former Acting Executive Director for the Georgetown University Beeck Center for Social Impact and Innovation in Washington DC. Prior to his work at the Beeck Center, Aaron was a US Presidential Innovation Fellow and was subsequently one of the co-founders, and then later Executive Director of 18F, the US government's in-house technology and design consultancy. In 2018 he moved north of the border and became the first CEO of the Government of Canada's Canadian Digital Service. And has twice been named one of the “World's 100 Most Influential People in Digital Government" by Apolitical.In our conversation, we talk about why our current approach to technology actually makes government less transparent, and how open source in government might be a moral imperative. If government is creating or procuring software using taxpayer's money--something that has been in the news with the investigation into the ArriveCan app in Canada--shouldn't government have a requirement to share that code back with the public since it is the public who “owns” it? And how do we ensure that leaders in government know enough about technology to make good decisions about how it is used?Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZJEuTgFK6MRelated LinksDigital Service NetworkAaron Snow's WebsiteGeorgetown University Beeck Center for Social Innovation and ImpactAuditor-General to report Monday on how cost of ArriveCan app grew from $80,000 to more than $54-million (Globe and Mail)Chapters00:00 Introduction04:41 Interview with Aaron Snow06:13 The Security Aspect of Open Source07:46 The Unrealized Promise of Open Source in Government13:15 The Need for Strong Political Leadership in Digital Government24:03 Modular, Reusable Components in Government32:03 Conclusion

We want government to be innovative and not be left behind in the digital revolution. But this comes up against the reality of the structures, incentives, and culture of most public sector organizations that resist change. As a result, and as we've been talking about on this podcast, our efforts to push forward digital transformation and modernize the business of government seems to be stuck in the mud as of late. So for the dedicated community of those in and adjacent to the public service who believe in the potential of doing things in a different way, it can at times feel a bit lonely. As someone who has worked both in the political system and the public service, I know how important clear political leadership is to support these efforts. The good news is that there are those in positions of power and influence who also believe in this vision of modern government.Our guest this week is one of them.Senator Colin Deacon is an independent Senator for Nova Scotia, appointed in June 2018. He's made Digital Government one of his focus areas in the Senate and is one of the founders and co-chairs of the Caucus Group on Emerging Technology, a multi-party initiative to help Parliamentarians better understand how technology is impacting policy issues. He is a strong advocate for working across party-lines, and with entrepreneurs, researchers and social innovators to build a more innovative digital economy in Canada.Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZGr0lZ0asYRelated LinksAbout the Diia App in Ukraine (Wikipedia)Parliamentary Budget Office Report: Overview of the Government's Digital Service TransformationParliamentary Caucus on Emerging TechnologySenator Colin Deacon's WebsiteChapters00:05 Introduction03:06 Interview with Senator Colin Deacon05:23 The Challenges of Implementing Digital Changes in Government10:41 The Need for Modernizing Government Operations23:40 International Examples of Digital Transformation: Ukraine25:35 The Importance of Leadership in Digital Transformation25:52 Rethinking Procurement for Digital Solutions35:15 The Emerging Technology Caucus Group41:02 Closing Remarks

As digital technologies become increasingly embedded in the fabric of the built environment, there are real questions about whether our cities, where 8 out of 10 North Americans live, are truly ready to be digital or smart cities. Do we have the right levels of transparency for citizens to know what data is being collected, how, and for what purpose? And are governments ready to use data and technology to improve and modernize our public institutions?This week, we talk to two amazing guests about these questions.First up is Jacqueline Lu. She is the President and Co-Founder of Helpful Places, a social impact enterprise that is working to ensure that places we live and work in, and the technologies within them, are helpful and empowering for people and their communities. In this segment, we talk to Jacqueline about her contention that, with all of the digital technologies we are surrounded by, we are already living inside a computer. We also get into Helpful Place's project called the Digital Trust for Places & Routines standard, which is meant to increase the transparency, legibility and accountability of digital technology in the built environment. Our second conversation is with John Houweling. John is the Director of Data, Analytics and Visualization for York Region in the Greater Toronto Area. John shares his insights from a fascinating career focused on data both in the public and private sectors and his his insights on the importance of data to fuel the digital revolution. We also talk about the digital maturity model that Think Digital has developed with York Region that help public sector organizations better understand what they need to do to make sure they have the capacity to operate effectively in a modern digital world.Watch on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNuJ_1kx_jYRelated LinksBlog Post: Think Digital Digital Maturity Assessment ModelHelpful PlacesDigital Trust for Places and Routines StandardYork Region "Putting Data to Work"Chapters00:04 Introduction03:09 Interview with Jacqueline Lu04:57 The Impact of Digital Technology on Public Spaces07:38 The Role of Trust in Technology Adoption12:57 The Digital Trust for Places and Routines Standard16:02 The Importance of Transparency and Trust in Technology21:34 Government Adoption of Technology is a Trust Issue26:44 Interview with John Houweling29:17 John's Journey and Transition into Government33:36 Data Sharing and Collaboration36:52 Digital Academy and Training40:24 Digital Maturity and Benchmarking44:38 Adopting Digital Standards48:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts from Ryan

You've probably seen any number of stories about how some founder in Silicon Valley says their startup can tackle a big societal problem better and cheaper than the public sector because government just can't do anything right. Or maybe you've heard about a public sector executive immediately dismissing an idea that came from the private sector on how to do things differently because government's unique and this is how it's always been done.These scenarios speak to larger tensions and misconceptions between the private and public sector. But if there's one thing that the pandemic and the resulting sudden need for the deployment of impactful digital tools taught us is that we don't have to accept business as usual as the only way to solve problems and deliver services.This week we're talking about what you can accomplish when you harness tech, talent and modern approaches to digital service delivery in the public sector. Joining us to talk about this is Hillary Hartley, CEO of US Digital Response. USDR was founded in 2020 to pair volunteer tech talent with governments to create critical digital tools needed to respond to the COVID-19 crisis. Today, US Digital Response has grown into a community of over 8000 pro bono digital specialists who have partnered with almost 300 different government and nonprofit organizations across the United States on projects that directly impact communities. Prior to her role at USDR, she was head of the Ontario Digital Service, which she led in conjunction with her deputy minister level position of Chief Digital and Data Officer for the Ontario government. And before that, Hillary was the deputy executive director of 18F, a digital services agency in the US federal government that she helped to create back when she was a Presidential Innovation Fellow in 2013. Hillary is a great example of someone who thought she was headed to a long term career in Silicon Valley, found herself in a public sector role, and then fell in love with the impact that she could make in government.Related LinksUS Digital ResponseCode for CanadaWatch on YouTubehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=o9QD4bfPP64

How do we get stuff done? If there's a broader theme for this season of the podcast, it's that. How do we get unstuck from the mud that we seem to be in, and get on with actually realizing our digital ambitions in government?It would be easy to chase the next big digital technology. But this episode we're talking about why need to pay attention to the "plumbing." We have to think about the underlying infrastructure and the need to make upfront investments to identify and fix the deep structural problems in government that prevent us from achieving the ambitious vision of what a modern government should look like. It's the unsexy, behind the scenes things that really holds us back.Joining us this week to talk about this is Honey Dacanay. She is the Director-General of Policy and Performance at the Office of the Government of Canada's Chief Information Officer at Treasury Board Secretariat. She joined the federal government in 2019 taking on roles initially in the Canada School of Public Service and then Service Canada, bringing her experience from serving in the Province of Ontario where she was one of the co-founders of the Ontario Digital Service. She's also a Professor of Practice at McMaster University where she teaches about digital government in their Master of Public Policy in a Digital Society program. And in 2019 Honey was named one of Apolitical's 100 Most influential people in Digital Government.Watch on Youtubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txKiN8I72K0Chapters00:04 Introduction and Welcome02:45 Honey Dacanay04:31 The Need for Upfront Investment in Digital Teams18:33 Teaching the Next Generation of Leaders20:36 The Importance of Public Administration in Digital Transformation29:55 Closing Remarks and Reflections

Can government do the things that it says it is going to do? One of the hardest things that public servants have to do is implement and it gets to the heart of a state's capacity to deliver. In the digital era, that means being able to deliver digitally. And when we think about state capacity in this context, it often seems that we find our institutions coming up short.State capacity is something that this week's guest has thought a lot about. Jennifer Pahlka is a leading figure in the digital government movement in the United States, and recently authored a new book, "Recoding America: Why Government is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better." (See below on how to enter a draw for a free copy!)Jennifer served as Deputy Chief Technology Officer for the US Government under President Obama's Administration where she helped to create the United States Digital Service. She is also the founder and former executive director of Code for America which she led for 10 years. More recently she co-founded and is Chair of the Board of Directors for the United States Digital Response, which was a new organization that was set up to help governments respond to the COVID-19 crisis through mobilizing volunteer tech talent. She spoke to Ryan at the FWD50 Conference in November about why governments seem to find themselves in a crisis of implementation and delivery regardless of partisan stripe. They also talk about ways to get unstuck, and stay motivated, including a really heartwarming end to the interview where Jennifer talks about what to do when we are feeling demoralized and that change is never going to come. Enter a draw to win a free copy of Recoding America!If you'd like to get a copy of Recoding America, sign up to the Think Digital newsletter by December 22, 2023 at 11:59pm ET and you'll be entered into a draw to receive a free copy! Anyone who is signed up to the newsletter by the deadline is eligible. Go to letsthinkdigital.ca to sign up!Watch the Episode on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuTzJ7LtiiYChapters00:04 Introduction and Welcome03:15 Interview with Jennifer Pahlka05:20 The Importance of State Capacity in Government06:24 Policy vs. Implementation09:38 Key Takeaways from Recoding America15:36 The Role of Political Leadership24:20 Are Our Systems of Democratic Governance Still Fit for Purpose?28:23 Commonalities Across Jurisdictions32:19 The Role of Civic Tech in Government37:41 Don't Give Up38:55 Closing Remarks and Book Giveaway Announcement

We're back for Season 2! This week, we have Sean Boots, an open government manager and a veteran of digital transformation efforts in the Canadian federal government. In this conversation we talk about how we seem to be stuck in the mud on our digital transformation journey, and Sean's recent presentation at the FWD50 conference and open letter to the Clerk of the Privy Council that lays out his radical (but implementable) ideas that would make the public service better equipped to handle the challenges of today and tomorrow.Watch on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/9qI1R9Z2ouMRelated LinksTo the Clerk, and friends (Sean Boots' open letter)Revolution, not evolution, for federal public service delivery (Sean Boots FWD50 talk)Chief information officer Catherine Luelo resigns from job revamping federal tech (Policy Options)What Canada can learn from Ukraine about digital services for citizens (Aaron Snow / Ottawa Citizen)Customer service a new concept for Canada's Immigration Department (Toronto Star)Byte-Sized Progress: Assessing Digital Transformation in the Government of Canada (The Dais)Overview of the Government's Digital Service Transformation (Parliamentary Budget Office)00:05 Introduction and Season One Recap01:31 Ryan's Thoughts on the Current State of Digital Government06:23 Introducing this Week's Guest: Sean Boots07:46 Interview with Sean Boots24:00 Why Leaders Need to Have Digital Competency31:18 Sean's Wildest Ideas34:49 Reflections on the Canadian Digital Service43:23 Staying Optimistic45:09 Conclusion

On June 16, we had a special livestream to celebrate the conclusion of Season 1 of Let's Think Digital! Listen to the Think Digital team to talk about how social media has been changing our world, the future of work, and reflections on the previous episodes. We also took some audience Q&A.Thanks to Mike Kujawski, Rebecca Hollett, Mel Han, Aislinn Bornais, Meghan Hellstern, Jen Schellinck, Mike Gifford, Nilufer Erdebil, and Wayne Chu for appearing. Watch on YouTubehttps://youtube.com/live/lGNJ1zHXM78Related LinksOpen source and accessibility: How we can make government digital services available to everyoneCatch-up on Season One of Let's Think Digital!

This week, Meghan Hellstern, Trainer and Facilitator with Think Digital, co-hosts with Ryan and reflects on her time at the 2023 Code for America Summit in Washington, D.C! In this episode, we hear about how digital transformation is as much about people, as it is technology. Big thanks to Hillary Hartley, Dorothy Eng, Ariel Kennan, Amanda Renteria, Karina Rider, Natalie Talis, and Luke Simcoe for taking time out of their busy conference to sit and reflect with Meghan.Related LinksCode for America SummitWatch the Episode on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/pCdCmpYAamY

Over the past decade it seems like countless innovation labs have sprung up inside of government. But do they really work? Sometimes innovation and government can seem like a contradiction in terms. This week, Ryan co-hosts with Think Digital Associate, Nick Scott, to dig deep into not only the ways that governments themselves can become more innovative, but why government might actually be necessary for innovation to flourish.Joining Ryan and Nick to explore this topic is Alex Ryan, Co-founder and CEO of Synthetikos. Alex has a tremendous breadth of experience having previously ran innovation labs in the United States, Alberta, and most recently, serving as Vice President of the Solutions Lab at MaRS in Toronto. He talks about what he has learned during his years of experience helping government and the social sector harness innovation, his belief that government can in fact be innovative, and how government is the ultimate opportunity to do innovation at scale.If you ever have wanted to learn about what these things called innovation labs really are, what they are good for (and what they aren't), this is the episode for you!Related LinksWhat I learned from 5 years on MaRS - Blog post by Alex RyanObservatory of Public Sector Innovation - OECD websiteRegistration link for GovMaker Conference - June 14, 2023, Fredericton, NBRegistration link for Alex Ryan and Nick Scott workshop: Mission Possible: Mission-Oriented Innovation for 21st Century Challenges - June 15, 2023, Fredericton, NBThe GovMaker PodcastWatch the Episode on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/VTJ04otR-y0

This episode, we go deep and talk about everything you need to know about artificial intelligence, machine learning, large language models like ChatGPT, and big data in the government context.Our first guests are Jen Schellinck, Associate at Think Digital and CEO of Sysabee, and John Stroud, who runs an initiative with Jen called AI Guides. Jen and John will introduce you to AI basics and buzzwords.Next we look to the future with Cecilia Tham, CEO and Founder of Futurity Systems, to talk about where we could be heading as a society with AI in ways we can only start to imagine.Third, Shingai Manjengwa, Founder of Fireside Analytics, will join us to chat AI risks, mitigations, and frameworks to use AI in responsible and ethical ways.And finally, we have a preview of a research report that we are publishing next month that explores how governments around the world are approaching the governance of artificial intelligence. Jacob Danto-Clancy and Bryce Edwards from the Think Digital team join us to share some insights from their work on this project.Related LinksBuilding an interspecies economy via the Plantiverse (from Futurity Systems)Intense - a quarterly lifestyle magazine from 2030. All the images were made by Midjourney and co-written with GPT. (from Futurity Systems)Futurity Science Tools, a data-driven platform for futures intelligence (from Futurity Systems)If ChatGPT was a colleague... - blog post by Shingai ManjengwaWatch the Episode on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et9UJsa6BeA

On this episode we talk about the human factors that can prevent and enable digital government innovation. We start with Alistair Croll, Founder and Content Chair of FWD50, and the results of their 2023 Digital Government Content Survey. There's some really interesting results about what digital government practitioners are seeing as priorities, and the challenges they face in pushing through innovation within their organizations. We then talk with Nilufer Erdebil, Founder and CEO of Spring2 Innovation and an Associate at Think Digital, who talks about her new book, "Future Proofing by Design". She talks about the importance of design thinking, not just as a methodology, but as a way of approaching problem solving in government that can make your life, the lives of citizens, and even your boss' life, easier.Related LinksFWD50 2023 Digital Government Content Survey ResultsFuture Proofing by Design, by Nilufer ErdebilWatch the Video Version of the Episodehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXVsrNi_al8

This week on Let's Think Digital we tackle the idea that government organizations are slow and resistant to change, and explore the idea that digital innovation is a necessary skill set for public servants to learn. Joining Ryan is Robyn Scott, the CEO and Co-founder of Apolitical, a global learning platform dedicated to supporting public servants in building 21st century governments that work for people and the planet. Robyn shares her insights on the types of skill sets public servants need to learn, the challenges of transformation in government, and the importance of connecting with peers from around the world.Visit Apolitical and learn about their training and learning community supports.Watch the Video Version of the Episodehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCJnylmJn_Y

Unlike in the private sector, governments don't choose their users. That's why even more important in the public sector to make sure that technology and digital transformation efforts work for everyone. It doesn't matter how innovative or efficient digital technology can be for public institutions if the implementation of those actively exclude people from accessing and benefiting from public services and assets. That's why principles like accessibility, sustainability and openness are so important when we think about digital transformation.Joining Ryan to talk about this is Mike Gifford, an Associate with Think Digital, and a Senior Strategist at CivicActions, a technology consultancy that helps government deliver better public services through modern technology and design.Watch the Video Version of the Episodehttps://youtu.be/rmO5T7zQtU4

Government procurement. For some, you might think of scandals, like the recent controversy about the amount of money spent on developing the ArriveCan app, or the sponsorship scandal in the early 2000s. For others procurement is that boring, sometimes frustrating process when contracting for services. But the reality is that how governments procure is fundamental to its ability to undertake digital transformation projects.To talk about this, we are so happy to have joining us Dr. Amanda Clarke, Associate Professor of Public Administration, Digital Government, Data Governance, and Civic Technology at Carleton University. Learn more about the research that Dr. Clarke and her team have been undertaking about federal government procurement in Canada at: https://govcanadacontracts.caWatch the Video Version of the Episodehttps://youtu.be/zvIrRl-SBHQ

Ryan travels to Dubai for the World Government Summit, an annual event that brings together leaders in government and industry from around the world, looking at issues related to digital transformation, futurism, sustainable development and other topics that are of interest to policy makers around the world.Appearing on this episode as part of hallway conversations during the Summit are some amazing guests:Pooja Warier Hamilton - Chief Partnerships Officer, ApoliticalGiulio Quaggiotto - Innovation Advisor, Prime Minister's Office, UAEAaron Snow - Fellow, Georgetown University Beeck Center for Social Impact and InnovationBarbara Ubaldi - Head of Digital Government and Data Unit, OECDSimonida Subotic - Former Deputy Secretary for Economic Development, State of New YorkWatch the Video Version of the Episodehttps://youtu.be/aLYT-F5CQPM

Everyone is talking about the metaverse, but what is it actually, and what does it mean for digital government and the public sphere? How is it different from the promises of virtual reality made in the 1990s? In this episode, host Ryan Androsoff talks to Jen Schellinck, an expert in data science and artificial intelligence, and Meghan Hellstern, a user experience and human-centered design specialist to break through the hype.Read more about how Ryan, Meghan, and Jen have been using Virtual Reality in the Digital Executive Leadership Program that they run with the Institute on Governance.Cold Open Source: ABC News Primetime LiveWatch the Video Version of the Episodehttps://youtu.be/bCobtVf_7yw

Over the last 30 years, technology has been promised to transform government and public services. But the reality hasn't always matched the promise. Why is that? On our very first episode of Let's Think Digital, we unpack what is going on, and how we might use the "Pac-Man" model to drive digital transformation.Joining host Ryan Androsoff, are Dorothy Eng, Executive Director of Code for Canada, Winter Fedyk, CEO of Silo Strategy, and Luke Simcoe, a change management and communications expert.Read more about Think Digital's "Pac-Man" model of digital transformation.Cold Open Source: Clinton LibraryWatch the Video Version of the Episodehttps://youtu.be/5DKrSokfA5s

Let's Think Digital is a new podcast about what it takes to use digital technologies to transform our world to improve peoples' lives. Hosted by Ryan Androsoff, Founder of Think Digital, and an incredible community of digital innovators from all walks of life, this podcast goes beyond the hype of founder culture. Our focus isn't just user counts, funding rounds and quarterly profits. Instead we're going to talk about why systems resist change, and how transformation is just as much about people and culture as it is about tech stacks.You'll hear a wide range of topics, from the link between procurement and digital government, to the impact of new technologies like the metaverse. From equity, inclusion and ethical responsibilities for tech, to why governments can't be run like businesses, particularly when it comes to providing digital services to citizens. We're eager to talk about the political and philosophical ramifications of technology and what it means for the future of government. Our goal is to help you to learn about how digital is impacting our world, to ask better questions, and to be able to call bullshit when you need to! Learn more at https://www.letsthinkdigital.ca!