Podcast appearances and mentions of gini dietrich

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the complexities of hiring in growing agencies. They highlight the challenges of finding skilled, reliable employees who align with agency values. Sharing personal experiences, Gini explains the pitfalls of hasty hiring and the benefits of thorough vetting and cultural fit. They stress the importance of a structured hiring process, including clear job roles, career paths, and appropriate compensation. They also underscore the value of meaningful interviews, proper candidate evaluations, and treating the hiring process as the start of a long-term relationship. Lastly, Chip and Gini emphasize learning from past mistakes to improve hiring effectiveness and employee retention. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “When we talk about retaining employees, it goes back to how the interviews went.” Gini Dietrich: “You’re gonna be working with this person eight hours a day. You should have a real meaningful conversation with them. Don’t ask if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?” Chip Griffin: “If you’re going to have members of your team interviewing, you need to make sure that you’re educating them on how to do it well. And how to do it without causing problems.” Gini Dietrich: “They say, hire slowly and fire fast for a reason, because you have to be really meticulous about who you hire. So that they do last. So they are a culture fit, so they don’t miss deadlines, so that they are getting the work done that you need done.” Related How to onboard new agency employees Get over your fear of hiring employees Hiring the best employees for your agency How to hire agency employees Setting honest expectations for your agency employees from the start Focus on agency employee retention View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, a few weeks ago, I think I fired you. Today, you’re hired, Gini Dietrich: You keep playing with my emotions. I don’t know how to do this anymore. I’m fired. I don’t get paid. Now you’re rehiring me. I don’t know what to do. Chip Griffin: Yeah, it’s difficult. Anyway. It is what it is. But no, we are gonna talk about hiring today because we are, you know, we can’t just talk about all the bad things. So, we’ll, we’ll spend some time talking about something that is overall more positive. Because if we’re hiring, hopefully that means that we are growing, or at least we have the need for additional resources, even if it’s replacing someone who has left. But it is something that is very challenging, so it can create its own problems along the way if you don’t do it right. So this is, something that comes from one of our favorite topic inspiration sources. Reddit. I know it’s a place that you live and breathe. Gini Dietrich: And by favorite, we’re using quotes “favorite”, scares the crap outta me. But ok. Chip Griffin: You are on Reddit all day every day. Just kind of combing around to see what conversations you can jump into. But this is one that was on there, probably a while ago honestly, it’s in our topic document. We didn’t date it, so I, I can’t tell you how long ago it was, but, what it says is, hiring the right people is harder than it looks. Finding skilled, reliable people who align with your values is a challenge. Early on, I rushed hires and paid for it in missed deadlines and miscommunication. Now I take more time to vet people and focus on cultural fit as much as skills. So I thought it would be helpful for us to have a conversation around how we approach the hiring process. How do we find the right fits? How do we vet those fits? And how do we frankly think about going from hiring them to, to beginning to on onboard them. We’re not gonna talk about the full onboarding process, but just sort of, you know, that, that evolution of saying, Hey, I need this role. Where do we go from there? Gini Dietrich: Yeah, it’s, it’s funny you say that this is our topic today. ’cause just the other day I was thinking about some of the very early hires I made that didn’t work out. And all of the mistakes I made in, in hiring them. And I will say that one of the biggest mistakes that I make is I meet somebody online who has the right skillset from a paper perspective, resume perspective, and I just hire them. I’m like, oh yeah, you, you look like you can do the job. And we may have a conversation, but there’s no, like, thought about it. There’s no interviewing for skills. It’s more just like a, a conversation to see if we, we might be able to work together. And every time I have done that, it has not worked out. So earlier this year I hired a chief learning officer to help with like certification and, you know, all the professional development things we do on the PESO model front. And about three or four months in, we both realized that, that that while she can do that job and she’s great at that job, she would be more valuable as a chief operating officer. So we switched her over. And let me tell you, being professionalized on the hiring front is phenomenal. I mean, she has set up interview guides, so like if you are an assistant account executive, and this would be somebody that you report to maybe two or three levels up, and we’re having you interview, you have a set of questions. If you’re the direct report, you have a set of questions. So we, like, she’s created all this. She’s created salary bands and like, you know, a career path for everybody where from where they start and she’s done, she’s done it in such a way that it isn’t bloat, but it’s just kind of professionalized the way that we do things. And you don’t have to hire a chief operating officer to do this, like I know you, you like to talk. Patrick is your go-to person from an HR perspective, someone like Patrick can help create these things so that you can professionalize it because as they say, hire slowly and fire fast. That quote is there for a reason, because you have to be really meticulous about who you hire. So that they do last. So they are a culture fit, so they don’t miss deadlines so that they are getting the, the work done that you need done and you’re not being, like, I have been in, in the last 20 years of just hiring people I like. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And, and I, I mean, I think that, you know, you’ve touched on some important things here and, and you do have to have some sort of a process in place. It doesn’t need to turn you do into a bureaucratic circus, Gini Dietrich: You do, right. Chip Griffin: But at the same time, you need to have a process. And, and it really, to me, starts with being clear about what it is that you need. And who it is that you’re trying to hire. And, and too often when we’re trying to hire, it’s either because someone has left or because we’ve got a new client. And so our, our mindset is we need to get someone in here quick because we’ve gotta relieve this pain and this pressure. But that often leads to some of those bad decisions because you’re not really evaluating. Not even just the individual, but the role. Mm-hmm. And you need to think through, you know, what do you actually need at any given point in time? And it’s one of the reasons why I am a very strong advocate of only hiring, particularly in small agencies, only hiring one person at a time, one role at a time. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Yes. Chip Griffin: Because every time you add someone new to the mix, it changes a little bit what you think you might need in the next one. And if you hire two people simultaneously, it increases the odds that you don’t actually have the right mix of talent on board. So you’ve gotta be crystal clear with yourself about what you’re looking for, but to your point, you also need to have a process in place that helps to understand what are our salary bands, what are our titles? How does this fit in? What is their growth path? Because those are questions you will get during the interview process. And if you’re not clear about those things going in, you will either overpay or underpay or assign the wrong title. Or frankly, get the wrong person because you’re not thinking about it in the big picture. So put the thought process in upfront, and that is the, to me, the first step in making sure that you make as good a decision as possible. Accepting that frankly, a lot of hiring decisions are gonna be wrong. Right? Even of course, even, even the, of course, even the best organizations, of course with the, with robust HR teams and, and talent evaluation, they still have a lot of misfires, so you can’t beat yourself up over those. But you’ve gotta increase your odds by having the right thought process and structural process in place. Gini Dietrich: One of the things that, you know, early on I would do when I didn’t have a team who could interview people, I would ask my business coach, or I would ask, you know, friends that were in the industry, other agency owners, if they would participate in some interviewing, just to kind of get me out of the Gosh, I really like this person. I think we’ll work well together. And, rather than, gosh, I really like this person and I think they can do the job right. So just having different outside perspective helped me when I didn’t have a team that could also do the interviewing. So I think, you know, doing that kind of stuff too helps. And I also think that, you know, I, one of the biggest mistakes, and you touched on this that I’ve made, is not having that career path or clear career path. Because people come to work and even though you’re an entrepreneur and you’re the agency owner, and you kind of know in your head how things work, they need to know that because this is their career that you’re talking about. So they need to know that if I wanna be promoted in 6 months, or 12 months or 18 months or whatever it happens to be, these are the things that I need to achieve so that they’re working towards something, not waiting for the annual review and saying, am I up for a promotion? What does that look like? Do I get a raise? Like, so having those kinds of things I think is incredibly important upfront so that you know, this is what we expect, this is how you’ll get to the next step, and you can be very clear about that. Chip Griffin: Yeah, because it, it is a question that you absolutely will get. I’ve done a lot of interviews over the years. I continue to, to do interviews for clients, and I can tell you that you get a lot of those kinds of questions where people want to understand what their career path is. The other one they ask a lot is, what does a typical day look like? Gini Dietrich: Mm-hmm. Chip Griffin: You’ve gotta have the answers for those questions as best you can, and, and you need to be honest with them where you don’t know. So don’t, don’t, you know, blow smoke and, and Gini Dietrich: Right. Chip Griffin: You know, give them an answer if you don’t have one. If, if the honest answer is, I don’t know. Tell them that, but then also explain how you think about it or how you would go about it, or the kinds of things that, that might be included so that you can paint some kind of a picture there. Because it’s, it is important for people to evaluate it. And frankly, we look at these things as, as evaluating the talent for us. But they’re also evaluating us. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely. Chip Griffin: And, and so you also need to make sure that in the process you’re giving them plenty of time to ask questions. In fact, I usually start by letting them ask questions for two reasons. One is because it helps them to get the information that they need to evaluate it. But second, you learn as much from the questions they ask as anything else. And to me, a red flag is when they have no questions at all. Gini Dietrich: No questions. Yeah. Chip Griffin: Because if they have no questions at all, it probably means they did no research. They’re probably not all that interested. They’re just trying to get a job of some kind. It doesn’t, it doesn’t mean necessarily that they’re a bad fit. Some people just freeze up because they’re, you know, that’s, that’s not a traditional approach to interviews. To start by saying, what questions do you have of me? Right. By the way, introduce yourself first. Talk a little bit about the business and the role. I mean, don’t just, you know, say hello. What questions do you have? Gini Dietrich: Hello. What do you have? What questions can I answer? Chip Griffin: But, but honestly, I, I almost always will ask people what questions they have before I ask my first question. We just do the intros and then start with that, because you learn from that. And it, it also helps them get onto a more comfortable spot. And so you can steer the, the conversation, I think, more effectively that way. Gini Dietrich: One of my biggest pet peeves is, you know, now that we have a, a team who does the interviews, if the candidate gets to me, that means they’re one of the finalists, right? And I will say, what questions do you have of me? And they will say, and this happens more often than not. Well, I kind of already asked my all my other question, my questions from everybody else. So ask them again. Right? Make sure you get the same answer like. Right. Yeah, because that will, as I know we’re not talking, we’re not talking to candidates right now, but that will tell you as much if there’s, the answers are different than anything else. So that is also a red flag. Which brings me to, we actually created a list of red flags, and we’re going through the A process right now ’cause we’re hiring and our HR director is doing pre-screens, phone screens, and one of the red flags is Are you able to work with within bureaucracy and lots of change and indecisiveness and you know. And one, one of the people that’s interviewing said, I just don’t like bureaucracy. I don’t like lots of change. I don’t like indecisiveness, I’m not. And she was like, no, like, because we have our list of red flags. So it’s, it’s an easy way also to sort of get yourself out of the, gosh, I really like this person. I’d like to work with them. If you have that list of red flags that you will allow you to objectively say, probably not the right fit for this job. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And, and the more that you do of this, the more easily you can come up with those things that just, that it, they’re the indication that this may not be the best fit. Yeah. And I always encourage probing just to make sure that, and I prefer to think of ’em as orange flags rather than red flags most of the time. Because most of the time it’s more the accumulation of those things than, than a single one that Gini Dietrich: fair, fair, Chip Griffin: that says, okay, no, this isn’t the right fit. But I also like to probe. And so, you know, in an example like that, I might say, well, well why does that bother you? Why is that a problem? And just kind of see, Gini Dietrich: yeah. Chip Griffin: You know, what their, what their root thinking is, because I mean, chances are it’s not gonna change anything, but it’s always interesting to find out why. I think the other thing, and, and you touched on this in, in, you know, having a, a, an interview guide and all of that, if you’re going to have members of your team interviewing, you need to make sure that you’re educating them on how to do it well. And how to do it without causing problems. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: And I think I’ve shared this on the podcast before. Yes. But I have seen so many egregious questions in interviews Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: Over the years that create substantial legal and regulatory issues. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: Please, please, please train your juniors. Frankly, some of you probably need some training yourselves. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: On how to do this, Gini Dietrich: I was just gonna say yes. Yes. Chip Griffin: In a way that’s not causing problems. Yes. Because the, I mean, the questions that I’ve seen asked in interviews are just off the charts and, and, and so blatantly inappropriate. Gini Dietrich: Do you have some examples? Chip Griffin: Focus on, and, and, and the other thing is focus on questions that, that actually might reveal something that’s useful to you. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: You are not, this is not Google. You’re not out there trying to ask, you know, weird mind game questions. Ask straightforward questions. I, I mean, ’cause the other thing Gini Dietrich: if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be? Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, in addition to the inappropriate questions, you just get these dumb ones, right? Where someone, someone read an article and they’re like, oh, you learn so much if you ask, what kind of tree would you be? Really, you just look crazy as an interviewer. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: You’ll look like you’ve lost your mind. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: Just don’t do it. Have a real conversation. Treat them like a professional. Treat them with respect. Treat them like you would a prospect. Don’t sit there and, and try to play gotcha games. It’s not a quiz show. It’s not. If you want to go on a quiz show and, and you wanna run your own quiz show, fine. Do that. Your interview subjects, that’s not what it’s for. Don’t ask them in Google Analytics, where do you go to do this? Come on, seriously, just knock it off. Gini Dietrich: That’s funny. Chip Griffin: And if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna try to apply tests to people, you gotta pay them. Gini Dietrich: I totally 100% agree with that. Chip Griffin: But you can’t, Gini Dietrich: yes. Chip Griffin: You can’t say, I need you to write a plan for me. Gini Dietrich: No. Chip Griffin: Or write a press release or something like that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Particularly if it’s for an actual client you have Correct. And you might actually use it. That’s just wrong. That’s, and I see that way too often. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: Where someone says, well, I need to evaluate you. I need you to, to do this. On the technical side, I’ve seen people ask to be written to write all sorts of code. Why? Gini Dietrich: Bad idea. I, you know what, actually Reddit is full of, of those like, so I’m interviewing for this job and they asked me to put together a 12 month plan complete with deck and strategy and blah, blah, blah. Is that normal? And I’m always like, no? Chip Griffin: No, Gini Dietrich: don’t do it. I understand the hiring market is tough right now, but no. Chip Griffin: It’s just bizarre. I mean, honestly, I, I would be suspicious of anybody who could put together that kind of a plan based on, you know, 10 minutes of conversation. Gini Dietrich: Right, right, right. Chip Griffin: I mean, and that’s the other thing. You have to be realistic about what kinds of answers you can get from people in these short windows of time. And so it really is… it’s not necessarily about whether you like them, but it’s, it’s trying to get to understand how they think, how they approach things. You can get those big picture senses off of these conversations, but the, the more granular you get with your question, the less likely it is to be a reliable indicator. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: And, and you need to, to again, treat it like a real conversation. So to the extent you have interview guides. Please use them. Just look through them and, and use it as, as a, a general format for the questions you might ask. Please do not do as, as. When I used to advise members of Congress and I prepared questions for them for hearings. Some of them would sit there and ask question one, question two, question three. They wouldn’t even listen to what the, the answer was from the witness at the hearing. They wouldn’t listen to what their colleagues had asked. So I, there were any number of situations where a member would read my question. The member previous to them had asked the exact same question, but they weren’t bothering to listen. Or they asked question one, and they move immediately to question number two, even though the person actually answered question number two as part of their response to question number one. Use your brain. Have a meaningful conversation. Do not walk through your, these are the 10 questions I always ask on interviews and just march through them Gini Dietrich: right Chip Griffin: in forced order. That doesn’t make any sense. You, you need to, to have a real meaningful conversation with someone if you wanna evaluate them properly. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. You’re gonna be working with this person eight hours a day. You should have a real meaningful conversation with them. This, that’s ludicrous. Chip Griffin: Alright, so you, so we’ve, we’ve figured out what we need. We’ve done the interviews. So now how do we pick, we, you know, we’ve got, I mean, let’s say we’ve got a couple of finalists. They’re both in our view, viable finalists. They’re, they’re, they both could do the job. What do you weigh most heavily when you’re evaluating one versus the other? How, how do you make that difficult decision? Gini Dietrich: I’m the wrong person to ask that question ’cause it is based on whether or not I like you and that’s probably not the right response. Chip Griffin: I mean the, there has to be an element of that, particularly in a small agency. Right. You know, you Yeah. If you just, if if you, if you don’t get the right vibe off of someone and you’re like, ah, this just doesn’t… listen to yourself. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: Right. If, if you don’t enjoy having the conversations with that person during the interview process, Gini Dietrich: it’s not gonna get better. Chip Griffin: And maybe you say, well, but they’re, they have all the skills. They have all the connections. They know what they’re doing. Oh, it’d make my life so easy. Listen to yourself there. And that doesn’t mean that you have to have that, you know, you need to hire people that you want to go out and have a beer with after work or something like that. But, you know, you’ve gotta feel like, I could talk to this person Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: An hour or two a day and I, I wouldn’t lose my mind. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: Don’t ever say they’ve got so much talent. I’m gonna ignore that. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Never, because I, the way I think about it is, and the same thing with clients, I would say it will, it gets to the point that I’m gonna end up canceling meetings with this person or with this client. If the answer is yes, then it’s not the right fit. Chip Griffin: Yeah. I mean, and, and the flip side is true too. Going to your point very early in this conversation, if you, if you are enjoying your conversation with that person, don’t overlook the fact that they don’t actually have the skills Yeah. That match up. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, they are under, it will bite you, underqualified or overqualified for the role. They still need to be a fit for the role. No matter how much you enjoy uhhuh your conversations with them or how smart you think they are, Uhhuh, that they may be a good fit for your organization at some point in some role, but it may not be the one you’re hiring for now. Mm-hmm. So make sure that you’re clear with yourself and don’t talk yourself into something. I, I see this a lot where people will get through the hiring process and they find someone that they really like and they’re like, well, they’re not really a fit for this role, but I could see them doing this or that. It’s okay to be flexible, but make sure that whatever this or that is, is really something you need. And you’re not talking yourself into an additional expenditure or putting yourself in a position where, yes, you’ve got that person, but now you still have to hire for this other role. You, you may make things more difficult for yourself in that. So make sure that you’re always going back to what did you say you needed? And if we’re deviating from that, why? And is it, is it a sound business case for making that decision? Gini Dietrich: Yeah, absolutely. Learn from me. Don’t make those mistakes. It costs a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of angst. It burns, some bridges. Learn from me. Chip Griffin: And, and also throughout the interview process, and I think we’ve talked about this on the, the show in the past before start thinking about those interview conversations, the hiring conversation where you’re making the offer. Think about all of those as part of the onboarding process. Because it really is a seamless transition or should be a seamless transition into the onboarding and ultimately retention. I mean, when, when we talk about retaining employees, it goes back to how the interviews went. Absolutely. The questions you asked, the way you handled yourself, all of that impacts things that will happen 6, 12, 18 months down the road or even more. Yeah. And so you need to be mindful of that and thinking about how would this person perceive the questions we ask, the process we follow, are we frankly canceling a lot of times on them during the interview process. You need to treat them with respect, if you want to be treated with respect, if you want to build a lasting relationship. So think about all of that at every step of the hiring process, from that first interview, to the last interview, to the offer, et cetera. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely, yes. It’s very, very, very important for you to be organized and prepared. Hire slowly. Those will be the things that save you from a hiring perspective. And like I said, learn from me and don’t always hire just people you like. Chip Griffin: There you go. But don’t hire people you dislike either. Gini Dietrich: So well, sure. But they also have to have the skills to do a good job. Chip Griffin: All right, well I guess with that, we’ll let you keep your job for now, so Gini Dietrich: Well thanks. Thanks. I appreciate it. Chip Griffin: On that note, we will draw this episode to a close. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich, Chip Griffin: and it depends.

Saying “we're the leading provider” isn't a strategy. Corroboration is. In this episode, Gini Dietrich explores how to build corroboration loops—the external proof points that show up in trade outlets, creator newsletters, podcasts, and partner channels, and all lead back to your best content. If you're a senior marketer or communicator trying to move beyond vanity metrics and random thought leadership, this episode will help you turn content into a credibility engine.

Does your website read like a committee of ghosts wrote it? Logos, vague promises, stock photos—and no real humans your audience can actually trust? In this episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich introduces author footprints: a simple way to turn your internal subject-matter experts into visible, credible sources for both humans and AI.

Most buying happens before a call—so if you're not answering buyer questions up front, the algorithms (and the humans) move on. Gini Dietrich provides a no-fluff visibility engineering sprint to help you prepare for a January launch.

Most of the decision happens before sales. In this episode, Gini Dietrich breaks down Visibility Engineering and how to use the PESO Model© to build anchor hubs that become the safest thing to cite, earn analyst/AI reuse, and measure results. You'll leave with a copy-and-paste Anchor Hub outline and a 30-day action plan.

In a collapsed-funnel world, “action-oriented” isn't a button—it's a byproduct of trust. Today, Gini Dietrich digs into how reputation becomes rank (and revenue), the metrics that prove it, and a simple PESO Model© sequence to lower your cost to convert. Share this episode with a friend, exec, or client who's stuck debating brand vs. performance.

AI collapsed drafting time—but clients still buy certainty: accuracy, brand safety, and results.  In this episode, Gini Dietrich lays out a practical playbook to stop itemizing hours and start contracting standards, so you keep fees (and win bigger scopes) in the AI era. In this episode, you'll learn: How to explain “AI speed” without triggering a discount The 10 clauses to codify standards (provenance, data, IP, QA) Fixed/outcome pricing models that hold (and grow) fees Scripts for procurement, legal, and the “show me your prompts” crowd

The internet isn't dead—it's haunted. This week, Gini Dietrich explores the “dead internet” theory and why bots now outnumber humans online, which changes how we plan, measure, and defend our brands.  You'll learn how to replace vanity metrics with human signals, ship proof-of-work content (original data, named experts, receipts), add provenance to your media, and rewire your PESO Model for verified attention. Highlights: Why dashboards glow while revenue stalls—and how to fix it Owned as your fortress: proof stack, schema, provenance Earned relationships that reduce uncertainty (and get the call) Shared in smaller rooms that create real conversation Paid that buys attention you can verify, not impressions you can't If you want to keep building trust and visibility in a ghosted web, this episode is your new playbook.

Synthetic sparks, real fires.  Gini Dietrich unpacks how bot-created boycotts inflate “consensus,” jump to real influencers, and turn into costly crises.  This episode gives you a practical, hour-one playbook: capture an authenticity snapshot, choose your lane, debunk without oxygen via a single owned explainer, and use paid/shared/earned intentionally.  She also covers the fast tells of inauthentic activity and the governance artifacts you should have queued up before anything explodes. Takeaways • Diagnose manufactured outrage in minutes—no fancy tools required • The exact comms moves to make in the first 2–24 hours • What bots can't fake (specificity, two-way friction, cross-channel corroboration) • How to prep: thresholds, roles, templates, stakeholder briefs If you found this useful, follow the show and share it with your marketing, comms, and brand teams.

Generative AI is sliding into the “Trough of Disappointment.” The Atlantic is warning of an AI bubble. And if you're a CMO chasing disconnected AI pilots without a plan, you could be next. In this episode, Gini Dietrich explains why PESO isn't just a model—it's the operating system that prevents AI from becoming another overhyped, underperforming fad. You'll learn: Why CMOs keep getting burned by technology hype cycles The rookie mistakes killing enterprise AI strategies How PESO ties AI to real business outcomes The trust signals that matter to both humans and machine customers Before the bubble pops, make sure your AI strategy is built to last.

Ten billion dollars in pharma advertising just got a whole lot less effective. With Trump's new memo cracking down on DTC ads—TV, social, digital, influencers, even online pharmacies—your pipeline may be at risk. In this episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich explains why disclosure-heavy ads will crush acquisition costs, how competitors are already shifting to PESO Model® strategies, and what you can do now to protect your market share. Don't wait until your board or investors start asking questions. The brands that move today will be taking market share by March.

For too long, marketing and communications have been judged by clicks, impressions, and vanity metrics. But those numbers don't move a boardroom.  Executives talk about pipeline, revenue, market share, and shareholder value. If your work isn't tied to those outcomes, you're invisible where it matters most. In this episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich introduces The Visibility Engineer's Manifesto—a new operating model for comms and marketing leaders. You'll learn how to replace outdated reporting with PESO-driven visibility that proves growth in the language executives actually care about. What you'll hear: Why CEOs and CFOs rarely mention marketing on earnings calls How AI-powered discovery is reshaping visibility and trust The 11 principles every Visibility Engineer must follow One Day 1 action step you can take right now Download the Manifesto PDF here: https://spinsucks.com/communication/visibility-engineer-manifesto/ 

For decades, we've built personas around titles, demographics, and buyer journeys. But today, your most important persona doesn't have a job title—it has an algorithm. In this episode, Gini Dietrich explains why AI platforms like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Perplexity are no longer just tools—they're the gatekeepers shaping your category. You'll learn: Why AI personas are necessary today How these platforms “think” and what they reward What CMOs and comms leaders need to do differently Four practical steps you can run in 90 days to show up in AI results How to lock in your category narrative before competitors do If you're not influencing the machines, you're not influencing the people.

Your reputation isn't just what people say anymore—it's what machines decide is true. In this episode of Spin Sucks, Gini Dietrich explains why structured trust is the new currency of reputation—and how AI tools are already encoding your brand. If your data is inconsistent, outdated, or missing, you're invisible (or worse, misrepresented). She covers what structured trust actually means (and why it matters), how machines decide if your brand is credible, the risks of ignoring structured trust, practical steps to build a “source-of-truth” page, use schema markup, and publish citation-ready content, and how to measure if your efforts are working. If AI were asked who you are…would it get the answer right?

On this week's Spin Sucks podcast, Gini Dietrich digs into IBM's new CMO Revolution study and what it means for the future of marketing leadership. The report makes one thing clear: the next decade won't belong to the marketers with the biggest budgets. It will belong to the CMOs with operational courage—those willing to dismantle outdated systems and rebuild for an AI-powered marketplace moving at the speed of a microsecond. She shows you how the PESO Model© has evolved into a full marketing operating system, helping CMOs close the execution gap and deliver: Precision, prediction, and protection at scale Integrated, measurable strategies that strengthen first-party data and customer relationships A perpetual growth engine that balances AI speed with human creativity If operational courage is the price of survival, PESO is the playbook.

PR is powering AI visibility—and communicators are more essential than ever. In this episode of the Spin Sucks podcast, Gini Dietrich breaks down how brand mentions, structured trust signals, and consistent PESO execution are shaping whether your brand shows up in AI-generated answers. The tools may have changed, but the strategy? Still rock solid. You'll walk away with: A more clear understanding of Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) A checklist for improving AI discoverability A smarter way to align your PESO strategy across platforms Hope (yes, really) that your role is more valuable than ever Subscribe, share, and get ready to run your same strategy—at machine scale.

Your job title hasn't changed. But your responsibilities have. In today's episode of the Spin Sucks podcast, Gini Dietrich breaks down what it means to be a Visibility Engineer—and why communications pros are now at the center of AI-driven brand discovery. You'll learn: Why 95% of AI citations come from non-paid sources (and how to get yours included) How to translate traditional comms skills into strategic AI visibility What new KPIs matter—like citation velocity, AI brand summaries, and misinformation risk How to use the PESO Model to engineer visibility across search, summaries, and smart assistants Plus, we'll share a “day in the life” of a visibility engineer and give you a tactical roadmap to start applying this thinking inside your own org. Join the Spin Sucks Community for deeper discussions: ⁠⁠⁠https://spinsucks.com/spin-sucks-community⁠⁠⁠  Follow Spin Sucks on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram for weekly tips.

What do you get when you combine a Coldplay concert, a viral Kiss Cam moment, a silent startup, and Gwyneth Paltrow? A crisis communications case study for the ages. In this episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich breaks down the real-time brand meltdown sparked by a now-infamous Kiss Cam and what every comms pro can learn from it.  You'll learn why timing is everything, how to prevent an awkward moment from becoming a full-blown scandal, and what to do when your CEO trends on TikTok. We'll cover: How to build a proactive crisis plan (before it's too late) What to do in the first hour of a PR firestorm Why silence is no longer strategicHow to keep a moment from spiraling into a movement (or how to prevent an issue from becoming a crisis) Whether you're crisis-tested or just crisis-curious, this episode will help you stay ready, stay fast, and stay in control of your narrative. Listen in—before your brand becomes the next internet punchline. Join the Spin Sucks Community for deeper discussions: ⁠⁠https://spinsucks.com/spin-sucks-community⁠⁠  Follow Spin Sucks on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram for weekly tips.

On this special edition of PR 360, we're revisiting a standout episode that perfectly captures what we aim to do with the show. It's a March 2024 interview with Gini Dietrich, founder of the influential Spin Sucks blog and author of Spin Sucks: Communication and Reputation Management in the Digital Age. This episode checks all the boxes—it's fun, insightful, and packed with valuable takeaways on thought leadership, the evolution of Spin Sucks from a blog into a movement, and even Gini's take on why Taylor Swift is a brilliant marketer.Key Takeaways:- The Spin Sucks story- Why thought leaders should be bold- Why Gini loves AIEpisode Timeline:2:40 How to come up with podcast ideas4:00 Why is Taylor Swift a great marketer?5:40 How Spin Sucks grew from a blog to a movement7:40 Why ethics is the backbone of Spin Sucks9:50 How to define results with a client11:00 The PESO model13:50 The importance of creating authority and trust14:40 Gini on thought leadership17:40 Gini's thoughts on AIThis episode's guest:· Gini Dietrich on LinkedIn· The Spin Sucks websiteSubscribe and leave a 5-star review:https://pod.link/1496390646Contact Us!• Join the conversation by leaving a comment!• Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn!Thanks for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

AI doesn't see you if your marketing content is brilliant but disconnected. And if AI doesn't see you, neither do your customers. In this episode of the Spin Sucks podcast, Gini Dietrich unpacks the discovery crisis—how AI is quietly reshaping the buyer journey, and what it means for brands that haven't integrated their content strategies. Spoiler alert: the old SEO playbook won't cut it. Join the Spin Sucks Community for deeper discussions: ⁠https://spinsucks.com/spin-sucks-community⁠  Follow Spin Sucks on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram for weekly tips.

Gini Dietrich is a well-known thought leader, author, and entrepreneur in the corporate communications space. Her PESO marketing framework has become a standard framework for PR and marketing professionals. In this episode, Mark Schaefer's special guest host talks about how the model has evolved in an era where consumer attention "acts differently." She also discusses how she is aggressively integrating AI in her client relations practices. 

On this episode of Destination on the Left, I talk with Colleen Senglaub, Digital Account Manager at TAP, for the first installment of a four-part series exploring the PESO Model—a foundational framework for integrated marketing plans in travel, tourism, and hospitality. We dig into the “P” of PESO—Paid Media. Colleen shares her expertise on digital advertising, breaking down today's must-have channels, including Meta (Facebook and Instagram), Google, programmatic, and connected TV campaigns. They also touch on emerging platforms like Pinterest and TikTok, offering fresh ideas for reaching key audiences. What You Will Learn in This Episode: How Colleen develops paid digital marketing plans using the PESO model and why this strategic framework helps destinations choose the right mix of paid, earned, shared, and owned tactics Why goal-setting and understanding your audience are foundational before selecting digital advertising channels and campaign types What considerations go into selecting paid media channels, including Meta (Facebook/Instagram), Google, programmatic connected TV, Pinterest, and TikTok, and why asset type and audience preference play a critical role How audience targeting and campaign automation are evolving (especially on Meta), and why maintaining control over audience selection is more important than ever What retargeting is in digital advertising, how it can be used effectively for tourism marketing, and why monitoring ad frequency matters for guest experience How to approach measurement, including setting the right KPIs, using industry benchmarks, and making ongoing campaign optimizations to ensure campaign success Maximizing Your Travel Marketing Impact with the PESO Model: Paid Media The PESO Model, developed by Spin Sucks founder Gini Dietrich, offers a holistic structure for integrated marketing. Of the four PESO pillars, paid media encompasses any tactic that requires a direct investment to capture attention. As Colleen Senglaub explains, this includes everything from digital campaigns (social ads, Google search, display, programmatic, and connected TV) to traditional placements like billboards and print, along with sponsored content and trade show activations. The key to successful paid media is intentionality. Marketers should analyze both the needs of their destination and the motivations of their target audience, choosing only the channels best equipped to deliver on their specific business goals. Channels to Consider in the Modern Mix Choosing where to focus isn't about following flashy trends—it's about aligning with your destination's unique goals and audiences. As Colleen says, every decision should connect back to core campaign objectives—are you trying to drive web visits, capture leads, or expand your newsletter reach? Who is your ideal traveler, in terms of age, interests, and location? A well-aligned strategy might mean an integrated mix, like for TAP's Baseball Hall of Fame campaign, which blended Meta, Google, TikTok, and CTV, thoughtfully timed to coincide with the launch of a new exhibit and the availability of assets. Emerging Channels and Creative Asset Considerations Don't overlook evolving channels. Pinterest, for example, wields unique influence over women-led travel planning, while TikTok is a powerhouse for reaching Gen Z, who increasingly look to social platforms instead of Google for travel inspiration. But succeeding on new channels requires the right creative approach. TikTok demands fun, vertical, trend-aligned videos, whereas Instagram and Meta perform better with a thoughtful mix of sizes and styles. Marketers should aim to capture assets in multiple formats upfront, future-proofing their campaigns for every channel. Resources: Website: https://travelalliancepartnership.com/ LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleen-senglaub/ LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tapintotravel/ We value your thoughts and feedback and would love to hear from you. Leave us a review on your favorite streaming platform to let us know what you want to hear more o​f. Here is a quick tutorial on how to leave us a rating and review on iTunes!

Generative AI search is rewriting how people find, trust, and engage with information—and communicators are uniquely positioned to lead in this new world. In this episode, Gini Dietrich breaks down why authoritative mentions, trust, and brand signals—PR's bread and butter—are now the currency of visibility in an AI-first world. If you're ready to stop chasing algorithms and start building durable visibility, this episode is for you. Join the Spin Sucks Community for deeper discussions: https://spinsucks.com/spin-sucks-community  Follow Spin Sucks on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram for weekly tips.

If audiences have fragmented attention and trust is harder to earn, what do you need to do? You don't need to burn it all down. It's about aligning your strategy to what works now. Gini Dietrich discusses how you can adapt the PESO Model© to function in a zero-click, zero-share world and how to structure your strategy for discover, trust, and measurable traction.

Remember when clicks, shares, and impressions were reliable measures of success? Those days are gone. In this episode, Gini Dietrich breaks down why AI-generated answers, algorithm-controlled feeds, and private, hidden sharing have fundamentally changed how audiences discover and trust your content.We're living in a zero-click, zero-share, zero-visit world—and traditional marketing tactics are losing visibility fast. But here's the good news: you don't need a shiny new framework to navigate this shift. You need to evolve your PESO Model® strategy to reflect how trust and attention work in 2025.

What does it mean to work smarter not harder when it comes to your communications strategy? Often a 'more is more' strategy feels like the way to go - adding content and tasks and tactics, but you'll get much better results if you focus on alignment instead of addition, and that's what Gini Dietrich is talking about this week on the Spin Sucks Podcast.

The expectations for marketing and communications teams are higher than ever, and old systems aren't going to cut it. This week on the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how the PESO Model© turns disconnected tactics into aligned strategy, vanity metrics into business results, and overwhelmed teams into confident, focused operators.

It seems like AI content is everywhere these days - in your inbox, on LinkedIn - even in major publications. And for all the many amazing ways AI can help make you more effective, it needs to be supervised. Closely. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how to walk the line between getting value out of AI tools, and losing the credibility you've worked so hard to build.

In an environment that is constantly changing, you need to make sure that you are in partnership with your clients, and providing the strategy and insight they need to grow. This week on the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is walking you through exactly how to change your relationship from vendor to business parter.

Last week on the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich shared the 4 types of data stories you need to communicate your metrics effectively. This week, she is talking about how to take those stories to the next level, and make them relatable to the decision makers you're working with.

When you're in communications, you need to make data compelling, and the best way to do that is through stories. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about the 4 types of Data Stories you need to be able to tease out and share.

Do you know if your client's business is moving forward with all the data collected? This week on the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how you can take your client's data and uncover the why behind the number by asking the questions they haven't asked yet.

The PESO Model© will help you build an integrated communications strategy, but if you're not measuring the right things - the outcomes it's creating - then you're going to have a hard time proving it. This week on the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how to stop measuring your activity, and start putting some real numbers around the outcomes you're creating.

Doing a little bit of everything - picking and choosing tactics - is NOT using the PESO Model©. This week on the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about the real power of the model: the integration. When you have a fully integrated PESO Model© strategy, then you have a replicable system that works in your sleep, with each element re-inforcing all of the others, and *that* will never be achieved by choosing and deploying individual tactics.

As economic uncertainty and the pace of technological change increases around the world, the communications plans you made late last year might already need an update. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking you through how you should be reviewing and updating your communications plans in light of this constantly changing environment.

"You cannot negotiate against yourself. Ask questions, gather data, be prepared—but don't assume the answer before you even start the conversation." - Gini DietrichWhat if the thing holding you back from making more money… is you? In this episode of Transformative Leadership Conversations, I'm chatting with Gini Dietrich, a seasoned PR pro and the founder of Spinsucks. Gini's not just a business owner, she's someone who's learned the hard way about money, confidence, and leadership.From a tough start to building an incredible business, Gini's story is a testament to what happens when you get real about your value—and how so many of us (especially women) hold ourselves back from truly owning it. If you've ever second-guessed your pricing, been nervous to ask for a raise, or just don't know how to explain your value to others—this episode is for you.You'll hear us discuss:It's not just numbers, it's mindset: A big part of negotiation skills is about your confidence—and often, fear. Gini talks about why it's important to learn how to overcome this, to get paid what you are worth.It's not just numbers and mindset, it's also about the right formula: Pricing isn't some mysterious or random guess—it's about knowing your costs and the profit you want to make. Gini explains how the correct price is actually calculated by factoring in your expenses plus the profit you aim for, and why you need to treat your rates as an evolving process, not a static figure.Confidence is a muscle: Whether you're running your own business or climbing the corporate ladder, confidence isn't automatic. Gini shares how building financial confidence is something you have to work at, constantly.Stop negotiating against yourself: So many of us do this without realizing it! Gini talks about the hidden ways we sabotage ourselves before we even sit down for that important conversation with a boss or client—and how to stop that cycle.Keep it professional: When you're asking for more—whether it's a raise or a new project—don't bring in personal stuff like credit card debt. Gini's advice? Stick to the value you bring to the table, not what you need to solve personal problems.Focus on the value, not the ‘deserve' factor: We often approach negotiations by asking, “Why do I deserve this?” Gini flips the script and explains why it's all about showing your boss, your clients, or even yourself, how much value you're adding.Data, data, data: You need to be armed with the facts when it comes to negotiating. Gini shares why doing your research and having the numbers to back up your requests is so critical to making your case.This isn't just for business owners: Even if you don't run your own company, this conversation is packed with practical advice for anyone looking to take charge of their career and negotiate for what they're worth.ResourcesGini Dietrich on Spin Sucks | LinkedInWinnie da Silva on LinkedIn | On the Web | Substack | Email - winnie@winnifred.org

A lot has changed since the PESO Model© was first released in 2014 - marketing and communications have all seen massive change - but the model has been there through it. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is sharing the evolution and elevation of the PESO Model, so that the marketing communications professionals who use it continue to be the best of the best in the industry.

AI adoption in the PR industry has been huge, but you're not at risk of being replaced. AI is taking over the work that ultimately, we don't want to be doing, and on today's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is sharing exactly how to get started, and where your human touch is, and will remain, needed.

When customer journeys are non-linear, and happening around the world, a one-size fits all approach to marketing an communication just doesn't work - but picking and choosing individual tactics from the PESO Model© won't fix the problem - you need a whole strategy. This week on the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how large organizations operating internationally can fill that gap, improve performance and bring consistency to your operation.

Being a good communicator means being able to effectively tell stories - that is what helps you build trust and relationships. On today's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about the stories that work best in business and how you can get comfortable telling them.

Most brand stories miss the mark becuase they're focused on the wrong thing, don't resonate with the intended audience, or lack consistency accross different channels. But there is a way to do it right, and that's exactly what Gini Dietrich is sharing this week on the Spin Sucks Podcast.

Requests for Proposals are the bane of many agency's existence, and although they're popular, they're rarely the best way to stary a new professional relationship. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about a better way to position yourself as an expert and get new business without the proposals.

You've seen them on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube - they're an increasingly popular and important method of connecting with the people interested in the companies you represent. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how to use this format, and how to integrate it into your PESO Model© strategy.

If AI is stopping people from clicking through to websites - what is the end goal for our PR work? That's what Gini Dietrich is exploring on this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast: the challenges, the opportunities and what you should be tracking and prioritizing as the landscape keeps shifting.

Gini Dietrich dives into AI and how PR professionals are the future of marketing. She discussed the future of paid media and using paid strategies to extend your reach with valuable content with the PESO Model. The key isn't reaching the most people; it's reaching the right people.

Your intellectual property is the culmination of your experience, insights and proven methodologies - and you should make sure that your proprietary ideas, productized services and frameworks are unambiguously yours. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is walking you through the exact steps to take to use you IP to become an overnight success... in just 10 years.

AI search engines, and even traditional search engines using AI are changing how people look for and find information. For communicators, this means we need to update the way we're using the PESO Model© to make sure we're getting found where people are looking. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is telling you how.

The magic of the PESO model is integration between the different media types. Often the lines are blurred between the elements and that means you're doing it exactly right. On this week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how to be omnipresent, and why you need to create an environment around each opportunity you have.

More and more of the public have trust issues with companies and media. Gini Dietrich reviews the Annual Edelman Trust Barometer Report and how you can use the PESO Model to address trust challenges in today's communication landscape.

A mistake that companies and individuals often make with the PESO Model© is treating it like a checklist of tactics rather than what it really is - an integrated strategy. On This week's episode of the Spin Sucks Podcast, Gini Dietrich is talking about how to make sure you're getting all of the benefits of the system - not just a few wins here and there.