Podcast appearances and mentions of norm brodsky

In today's special episode of Off the Clock, Dean Gene Kutcher spends the hour with Norm Brodsky - 1964 Rider alumnus, successful serial entrepreneur, author, mentor and the benefactor for whom the Norm Brodsky College of Business was named in October of 2019.  Join us for Norm's stories and insights about business successes and failures, as well as engaging with Business Broncs in Oxford and his “Inside the Entrepreneurial Mind” class. 

In today's special episode of Off the Clock, Dean Gene Kutcher spends the hour with Norm Brodsky - 1964 Rider alumnus, successful serial entrepreneur, author, mentor and the benefactor for whom the Norm Brodsky College of Business was named in October of 2019.  Join us for Norm's stories and insights about business successes and failures, as well as engaging with Business Broncs in Oxford and his “Inside the Entrepreneurial Mind” class. 

In today's special episode of Off the Clock, Dean Gene Kutcher spends the hour with Norm Brodsky - 1964 Rider alumnus, successful serial entrepreneur, author, mentor and the benefactor for whom the Norm Brodsky College of Business was named in October of 2019.  Join us for Norm's stories and insights about business successes and failures, as well as engaging with Business Broncs in Oxford and his “Inside the Entrepreneurial Mind” class. 

In This Episode: When it comes to entrepreneurship, Norm Brodsky has seen it all. He's also experienced the highest highs and lowest lows. In this podcast with Brian Moran, Norm discusses common mistakes business owners make, the value of honest projections, and the importance of reputation over short-term gains. Business owners—plan to take plenty of notes.

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(Replay of Ep. 211) My guest today is Bo Burlingham. I read Bo’s book (Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Top) back in 2015 and it was the reason I started this podcast and eventually lead to the creation of the Intentional Growth™ 5 Principles. I had the chance to interview Bo when this podcast was first starting and today, we have the chance to catch up and talk about the changes myself and my business have undergone over the past four years. In today’s episode, Bo explains to us the wide range of “good” and “bad” exits from businesses built by owner-founder entrepreneurs and why over 75% regret the sale 12 months later. He shares what the entrepreneurs did who were proud and happy with their exit. Bo and I reconcile his research with my 4 years of work and over 200 interviews. // WATCH THE INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE: Intentional Growth™ Podcast What You Will Learn Why the word “exit” is a curse word for most business owners Why the word “exit” can mean different things to your role vs your ownership How to avoid regretting the eventual sale of your company How to get clarity on what you want from your business The 7 components of a sale that help an owner achieve the 25% who are happy The importance of understanding how the company value impacts your exit options and your personal drivers Bo’s 4 (sometimes 5) characteristics of a “good exit” Why missing just one principle leads to a “bad exit” and can put you in the 75% What to think about in order to prepare you to mentally for a sale How Bo’s work intersects with the 5 Intentional Growth™ Principles The Seven P’s of Evergreen companies according to Bo and the Tugboat Institute How companies that plan to last over 100 years think about their businesses // USE YOUR FINANCIALS TO CLARIFY A PATH TOWARDS A MORE VALUABLE BUSINESS: Intentional Growth Financial Assessment Bio Bo Burlingham is currently a contributor to Forbes where he produces the magazine's annual Small Giants section. Previously, he worked for 33 years at Inc. magazine, as senior editor, executive editor, and editor at large. He is the coauthor, with Jack Stack, of The Great Game of Business and A Stake in the Outcome and, with Norm Brodsky, of The Knack (renamed Street Smarts in paperback). He is also the author of Small Giants and Finish Big. The popularity of Small Giants led to the creation of the Small Giants Community where business leaders learn and share practices and systems they can use to make their companies great, whether or not the businesses are big. Interview Quotes 14:32 – “One thing that struck me was how many people I talked to were unhappy and wished they hadn’t sold their businesses and were full of regrets and that there were parts of the whole experience that they didn’t like.” – Bo Burlingham 21:42 – “People who have a clear idea in their own mind about who they are or what they want and why are able to make decisions that are going to make them happy. Whereas otherwise you end up making decisions based on other people and what they think you should do.” – Bo Burlingham 22:00 – “It’s important to

EP. #1 [THEME ONE] My guest today is Bo Burlingham. I read Bo’s book (Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Top) back in 2015 and it was the reason I started this podcast and eventually lead to the creation of the Intentional Growth™ 5 Principles. I had the chance to interview Bo when this podcast was first starting and today, we have the chance to catch up and talk about the changes myself and my business have undergone over the past four years. In today’s episode, Bo explains to us the wide range of “good” and “bad” exits from businesses built by owner-founder entrepreneurs and why over 75% regret the sale 12 months later. He shares what the entrepreneurs did who were proud and happy with their exit. Bo and I reconcile his research with my 4 years of work and over 200 interviews. // WATCH THE INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE: Intentional Growth™ Podcast What You Will Learn Why the word “exit” is a curse word for most business owners Why the word “exit” can mean different things to your role vs your ownership How to avoid regretting the eventual sale of your company How to get clarity on what you want from your business The 7 components of a sale that help an owner achieve the 25% who are happy The importance of understanding how the company value impacts your exit options and your personal drivers Bo’s 4 (sometimes 5) characteristics of a “good exit” Why missing just one principle leads to a “bad exit” and can put you in the 75% What to think about in order to prepare you to mentally for a sale How Bo’s work intersects with the 5 Intentional Growth™ Principles The Seven P’s of Evergreen companies according to Bo and the Tugboat Institute How companies that plan to last over 100 years think about their businesses // USE YOUR FINANCIALS TO CLARIFY A PATH TOWARDS A MORE VALUABLE BUSINESS: Intentional Growth Financial Assessment Bio Bo Burlingham is currently a contributor to Forbes where he produces the magazine's annual Small Giants section. Previously, he worked for 33 years at Inc. magazine, as senior editor, executive editor, and editor at large. He is the coauthor, with Jack Stack, of The Great Game of Business and A Stake in the Outcome and, with Norm Brodsky, of The Knack (renamed Street Smarts in paperback). He is also the author of Small Giants and Finish Big. The popularity of Small Giants led to the creation of the Small Giants Community where business leaders learn and share practices and systems they can use to make their companies great, whether or not the businesses are big. Interview Quotes 14:32 – “One thing that struck me was how many people I talked to were unhappy and wished they hadn’t sold their businesses and were full of regrets and that there were parts of the whole experience that they didn’t like.” – Bo Burlingham 21:42 – “People who have a clear idea in their own mind about who they are or what they want and why are able to make decisions that are going to make them happy. Whereas otherwise you end up making decisions based on other people and what they think you should do.” – Bo Burlingham 22:00 – “It’s important to

In this episode of The Remarkable Project Jay talks to author Bo Burlingham about what it takes to be a company that that has chosen to be great over big. We look at the principles of the highly successful companies that Bo researched, the communities they serve and the relationships and stories that define them.Bo Burlingham has been writing about entrepreneurs and entrepreneurship for 40 years, mostly for Inc. magazine, where he served as executive editor and then editor at large. Along the way, he has authored five books, the most recent being Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Top.  On this episode we dive into Small Giants: Companies That Choose to Be Great Instead of Big, which was a finalist for the Financial Times/Goldman Sachs Business Book of the Year award. That book inspired the Small Giants Community, which he co-founded with Paul Spiegelman. He has written three other books with co-authors, including two with Jack Stack, CEO of Springfield Holdings Corp. and the pioneer of open-book management—The Great Game of Business and A Stake in the Outcome— and one with serial entrepreneur Norm Brodsky entitled Street Smarts.Remarkable Quotes"This is all about love right?! You have to love the community and the community has to know that you love the community.” "If the employees don't have the same passion for the company as the founder and owner, the experience they are going to have with the customer is not going to be the same” "A company need to have viable gross margins and protect those gross margins. It can't just reduce its prices.”Relevant References ‘Small Giants: Companies that Choose to be Great Instead of Big' by Bo Burlingham [2005] 'Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Top' by Bo Burlingham [2014] 'The Great Game of Business: The Only Sensible Way to Run a Company' by Bo Burlingham and Jack Stack [1992]Connect with BoLearn about Bo's books and business Reach out via LinkedIn  Bo also kindly gives his email address in this episode.

Bo Burlingham là biên tập viên tạp chí Inc. (Mỹ); là người sáng lập Small Giant Community; là tác giả của The Great Game of Business (Kinh doanh một cuộc chơi lớn), A Stake in the Outcome (Thăng trầm), Những người khổng lồ bé nhỏ. Norm Brodsky là người sáng lập Perfect Courier và Citistorage, Là biên tập viên của tạp chí Inc. Nội dung chính . Từ những câu chuyện thực tiễn, các tác giả “bật mí” những mẹo mực để phát triển doanh nghiệp trong chiếc “túi khôn” của mình. life2022

Our GYDA Talks special guest for June 2021 needs little introduction… Bo Burlingham is an editor-at-large of Inc. magazine and the author of five books, the most recent being ‘Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Top' (Portfolio/Penguin, 2014). A previous book, ‘Small Giants: Companies That Choose To Be Great Instead of Big' (Portfolio/Penguin, 2006), was one of five finalists for the 2006 Financial Times/Goldman Sachs Business Book of the Year award.Burlingham joined Inc. in January 1983 as a senior editor and became executive editor six months later. As executive editor, he was involved in much of the magazine's early coverage of innovative companies that have since emerged as leaders of the so-called New Economy. In 1990, he resigned that position so that he could do more writing and assumed the title of editor-at-large. Subsequently he wrote two books with Jack Stack, the co-founder and CEO of SRC Holdings Corp. (formerly, Springfield Remanufacturing Corp.) and the pioneer of open-book management. One of the books, The Great Game of Business (Doubleday/Currency, 1992), introduced the concept of open-book management, has sold more than 300,000 copies, and was named one of “the 100 best business books of all time.” The other, A Stake in the Outcome (Doubleday/Currency, 2002), recounted how SRC built its culture of ownership while developing the business model that has allowed it to grow from $16 million to $600 million in revenue as of this writing.Burlingham also co-authors with Norm Brodsky the popular column in Inc. called “Street Smarts,” which was the winner of a gold Azbee award from the American Society of Business Publication Editors in 2008, and a finalist for a National Magazine Award in 2006 and 2008. He and Brodsky also wrote The Knack: How Street-Smart Entrepreneurs Learn to Handle Whatever Comes Up (Portfolio/Penguin, 2008). (When the book was reissued in paperback a year later, the title was changed to Street Smarts: An All-Purpose Tool Kit for Entrepreneurs.)A former Fulbright Scholar and a Woodrow Wilson Fellow, Burlingham graduated from Princeton University in 1967 with a B.A. in public and international affairs. He subsequently served as managing editor of Ramparts magazine, contributing editor of New Times magazine, and a member of the editorial board of Working Papers, and wrote for numerous publications, including Harper's, Esquire, Mother Jones, The Boston Globe, and Boston magazine.In the early 1980s, he joined Fidelity Investments, the mutual fund company, where he worked with fund managers and top executives, including Peter Lynch. Burlingham was a founding member, with Tom Peters, of PAC/World, an international organization of business leaders and observers. He served on the board of The Body Shop Inc., the U.S. subsidiary of the international skin and hair care company, from 1992 to 1997.Bo and his wife, Lisa, have been married for 44 years and live in Oakland, California, and Sancerre, France. They have two children and four grandchildren.Robert and Bo discuss: Why Bo wrote Small Giants and Finish BigWhere are the Small Giants now?Post-Covid – is there a greater call for a Small Giants philosophy?How does Finish Big sit against the Small Giants philosophy?Finish Big – what does this mean in practice?Bo's top tips and pearls of wisdom This is a bitesize version of the hour-long video. To watch the rest visit: www.GYDAmemberhub.com

On today's episode, Ami Kassar interviews Bo Burlingham, contributing writer for Forbes and author of five books, about Small Giants, how these companies have performed during the pandemic and what we can learn from their philosophy. Bo has been writing about entrepreneurs and entrepreneurship for 38 years, mostly for Inc. magazine, where he served as executive editor and then editor at large. He is currently a contributing writer for Forbes. Along the way, he has authored five books, the most recent being Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Top. He previously authored Small Giants: Companies That Choose to Be Great Instead of Big, which was a finalist for the Financial Times/Goldman Sachs Business Book of the Year award. That book inspired the Small Giants Community, which he cofounded with Paul Spiegelman. He has written three other books with coauthors, including two with Jack Stack, CEO of Springfield Holdings Corp. and the pioneer of open-book management—The Great Game of Business and A Stake in the Outcome— and one with serial entrepreneur Norm Brodsky entitled Street Smarts. Recorded 01/25/2021.

Episode Notes In this episode Rami & Shannon talk about Street Smarts - An All purpose tool kit for Entrepreneurs by Norm Brodsky and Bo Burlingham. They discuss the art of negotiation and how it impacts all aspects of our lives. They break down the four tips for negotiating and explain why listening might be the most important piece of any negotiation.

“Street Smarts” columnist and senior contributing editor Norm Brodsky is a veteran entrepreneur who has founded and grown six businesses. In 2008 he sold CitiStorage, a document-archive business based in Brooklyn, New York, for $110 million. Along with Bo Burlingham, Norm has chronicled his entrepreneurial journey in his column in Inc. and in the book The Knack: How Street-Smart Entrepreneurs Learn to Handle Whatever Comes Up.

Bo Burlingham is the author of the renowned book Small Giants: Companies That Choose to Be Great Instead of Big. Bo has been writing about entrepreneurs and entrepreneurship for almost 37 years, primarily for Inc. Magazine, where he served as Executive Editor and then Editor-At-Large. He is currently a contributing writer for Forbes, and the author of five books, the most recent being Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies On Top. Bo has written three other books with co-authors, including two with Jack Stack, CEO of SRC Holdings Corporation and the pioneer of Open Book Management, called The Great Game of Business and A Stake In the Outcome. His book Street Smarts: An All-Purpose Tool Kit for Entrepreneurs was co-authored with serial entrepreneur and fellow Inc. columnist Norm Brodsky. Before joining Inc. Magazine, Bo freelanced for various publications including Esquire, Harper's Magazine, Boston Magazine, and Mother Jones. What you will learn in this episode: How Bo initially became interested in researching and writing about the journeys of entrepreneurs after realizing that freelance writing wouldn't support his family How working at Inc. Magazine was a transformative experience that redefined Bo's career as a writer Bo shares the story of Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and how they built a powerful business community in the area, sparking the idea for his first book How Bo's research showed him the importance of clear vision, community connection, personal relationships with customers, putting employees first, and strong margins Why Small Giants can still fail in spite of doing things right, if they don't also focus on profitability and protecting their gross margins How Bo's Small Giants community works together to learn from each other and support each other's success What common traits, vision and values exist in businesses who have become a part of the Small Giants community Why businesses like those in the Small Giants community are innovating new operational strategies and cultures, leading the way over the public sector and government Why the optimism and the desire to improve the world shared by much of the millennial generation is a powerful driver for communities like Small Giants and others like it Why Bo feels his life's purpose is to amplify the message of business leaders who are rethinking the way business works and recognizing their ability to improve our society Resources: Small Giants Community: https://smallgiants.org/ Website: www.boburlingham.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bo-burlingham-50a583/ Twitter: @BoBurlingham Bo Burlingham's Amazon Author Page: https://amzn.to/37K87Jh Additional Resources: Website: sharonspano.com Book: thetimemoneybook.com Events: sharonspano.com/workshops Contact: sharon@sharonspano.com Twitter: 

As we walk through life, many of us never know the near misses with tragedy we avoid due to an unknown twist of fate. For others, however, that near-miss was broadcast worldwide and will be forever remembered.    Bo Burlingham, author of the best-selling books Small Giants, The Great Game of Business and Finish Big, co-founder of the Small Giants Community and recent donothing guest, was one of those people. This week, we’re deviating from our typical podcast format to share his unbelievable story.   ...   On September 11th, 2001, 2,977 innocent people lost their lives—and Bo was nearly among them.   That Tuesday over 17 years ago, Bo had plans to travel from Boston to Los Angeles with a seat booked on American Airlines Flight 11. However, a twist of fate moved him to change his flight. Instead of sitting on that plane, he watched in horror as it plunged into the North Tower of the World Trade Center.   Listen to Bo’s incredible story about that terrible day and discover how his brush with mortality changed his entire outlook on life.    In this special episode of the donothing podcast, you’ll learn:   Where Bo was planning on flying to on 9/11/2001 Why Bo missed Flight 11 on September 11th How Bo found out that he was supposed to be on that flight What Bo’s first reaction was when he heard “his flight” hit the Twin Towers How Bo’s near miss with death changed his outlook on life Why Bo considers this near-miss a blessing—and not just because he survived How others including his family and colleagues like Jack Stack and Norm Brodsky reacted to the events of 9/11 and came together in the wake of tragedy Why it took several days for Bo and his wife, Lisa, to reunite How Bo’s sense of gratitude deepened after this experience Why Bo doesn’t want the memory of his brush with death to fade What Bo has had the opportunity to enjoy thanks to missing Flight 11 Why gratitude is often the silver lining behind tragedy   Connect With Bo Burlingham Online Website: http://boburlingham.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoBurlingham LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/32GjVK5   Find Bo’s Books Online Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Tophttps://amzn.to/32BnZuS   Small Giants: Companies That Choose to Be Great Instead of Bighttps://amzn.to/2OcWeFT   Street Smarts: An All-Purpose Tool Kit for Entrepreneurs, with Norm Brodskyhttps://amzn.to/2Gqo37c   The Great Game of Business, with Jack Stackhttps://amzn.to/2XZTMHe   Registration is OPEN for the 2020 donothing Leadership Retreat!   The dates are set for next year’s silent retreat at the Shambhala Mountain Center in Red Feather Lakes, Colorado. Join me and other leaders from April 19-23, 2020 as we dive into the biggest leadership challenge our lives—doing nothing. Learn more about the donothing Leadership Retreat at https://www.donothingbook.com/retreat.   donothing Audio Podcast Subscribe to the donothing podcast to discover simple, practical tips and tools from mindful, high-performing leaders that you can implement in your leadership philosophy today.    https://www.donothingbook.com/podcast    Follow Rob Dube on Social Media LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robdube Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rob.dube.1 Twitter: https://twitter.com/robddube   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robddube YouTube: https://bit.ly/2FYdckW   Rob Dube’s Website https://www.donothingbook.com     Buy the donothing book (now available as an audiobook, too!) https://www.amazon.com/donothing-rewarding-leadership-challenge-youll/dp/1544510020 

Bo Burlingham is the author of five books including Small Giants: Companies That Choose To Be Great Instead of Big, The Great Game of Business and A Stake in the Outcome (with Jack Stack), Street Smarts (with Norm Brodsky), and Finish Big: How Great Entrepreneurs Exit Their Companies on Top. He is currently a contributor to Forbes magazine, where he oversees and co-authors the annual Small Giants section, honoring 25 of the best small companies in America. Previously Bo was a senior editor, executive editor, and editor-at-large of Inc. magazine for 32 years, chronicling the emergence of the entrepreneurial economy. He lives in Oakland, California, with his wife of 48 years, Lisa. They have two children and four grandchildren.             Connect with Bo Burlingham: Website: www.boburlingham.com             Twitter: @boburlingham               Connect with Jon Dwoskin: Website: http://jondwoskin.com/ Twitter: @jdwoskin Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.dwoskin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Thejondwoskinexperience/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jondwoskin/  

Bo Burlingham is a contributor at Forbes magazine. Previously he worked at Inc. magazine for 33 years, first as executive editor, later as editor-at -large. His most recent book is Finish Big. He also wrote Small Giants and co-authored, with Jack Stack, The Great Game of Business and A Stake in the Outcome and with Norm Brodsky, Street Smarts. “really strive to learn about and then implement the mechanisms that other companies have used to get the most and the best out of the people that work for them. Basically the best companies other ones that have everybody in that company thinking and trying to do the same thing and working toward the same goal. And then if you really want to build a successful company, no one build a successful company alone or a good company alone, it's always done with other people. And the better those people are in the more that all of the members of the team are in fact working towards the same goal the more successful that company is going to be. And that's an important thing to understand and always keep in mind”…[Listen for More] Click Here for Show Notes To Listen or to Get the Show Notes go to https://wp.me/p6Tf4b-6WA

What are the different aspects needed to grow a sustainable business that is transferable and valuable? Today's episode is all about planning a successful strategic exit plan when selling your business.  Whether it be online, offline, or hybrid, how you lay the foundation for your business is the key to a smooth transaction even before you start the process of selling. We are talking with Ryan Tansom, a fellow podcaster, consultant, and successful business seller all about how he turned his sale into a springboard for helping others accomplish a great exit. Episode Highlights: How a strategic exit compare to a financial exit. Figure out how to align growth strategy with exit strategy in order to get what you want out of the deal while taking into account the financials, the company culture, and the potential legacy involved. When an offer comes to the table it is important to weigh all the variables. Think about any way that the buyer can do to add to his profitability. Show them all the things the things they can do and package it up for them. Network early and often with people who align their motives with yours. Make sure you know what the buyer's business continuity goals are. From knowing their goals you can come up with ways to fill their strategic plan. Understand the industry on both sides of the transaction so that you can design how the business can look for a strategic exit. Prepare early for the sale of a business so you don't get any nasty surprises during due diligence or negotiation. Ryan lays out the framework of a strategic sale. When strategic exits work and when they don't. Transcription Mark: Joe, how are you? Joe: I'm good, feeling old and tired but pretty good how about you? Mark: You are old and tired and I'm catching up quickly. Joe: But I'm not cold it's 63 in North Carolina today and you going to get snow this weekend right? Mark: Stop it, Stop it, by the time this episode airs it's going to be a beautiful year and I will no longer be recording episodes, I'll be outside enjoying it. Joe: Yes. I mean 36. Mark: Something like that, alright when we talks to people that want to sell their business, pretty common scenario, they're looking for a strategic exit or maybe they'll say, you know, we go to the whole valuation process and then they come back and then say “I've got a couple of companies of mine that might be really good fits to acquire the business right?” Nothing about strategic. I'm sure you get the pretty often on your side. Joe: Sure. Yes. Mark: Yeah, right. So strategic, how do you actually do them? Are they worth it? Do we actually get more money from them? That is the subject of today's interview. I sat down with Ryan Tansom. Ryan has his own podcast which we talk about a little bit, but he's got a really cool story, he and his dad were in business together in a traditional offline business. They are selling copiers and had all sorts of contracts there. And they went to the process of merging that company with another one. They first try to sell the company, and found out how difficult it was, then they spent some time retooling in and really planning their exit, and after they've retooled and planned their exit they were able to do a deal in just a few weeks. So his whole thing right now is to help people plan their exit and build value on the business at the same time, but I wanted to talk to him about how do you plan an exit if you want to do a strategic sale? Does that make sense? That you actually get more money from it and what are the chances that's going to happen? This is a fascinating conversation. Joe: Good. One thing that most people don't do, and that's plan their exit. They usually just wake up one day and decide, “I'm tired I want to sell the business I'm ready to move on, So you know I've talk to Ryan a number of times and I think He's life experience, what he went through  with his business with his father trying to sell finding, it was difficult and then actually putting a plan together and deciding, when he executed that plan and he'd sold the business very quickly and I think to a strategic buyer. He learned a lot and he's sharing that with people now. So It's nice that he's got the first hand experience in the sharing with people and I think he does a really good job at it. Mark: Yeah, and so in this we're going to talk about what do you need to do to get strategic exit setup and not surprisingly, it's a lot of the same stuff you have to do  if you're going to have a financial exit or a regular market type sale. Just take a little more upfront work and we talk about the chances of it actually happening. I also talk about how that it's not always the best thing. The very first business I sold went itself to a strategic exit. We ended going to a financial buyer because they actually got more money from it so we talk little about that as well. Well we get on into it because it's a lot good mini topics in this episode. Joe: Let's do it. Mark: Ryan, hey how are you? Ryan: Good Mark, how are you doing? Mark: Thanks for joining me. It's been a while since you and I met, well I think we're just talking about this a year and a half ago or something like at Caribou Coffee here in the Twin cities. Yeah you're local to me which I like. Ryan: I know we're local yet we're sitting here on video right? Mark: We should've done the very first podcast with [inaudible 0:03:58] and where he would have be like saddled up right next to me. Alright cool, well on our podcast we like to better a guest introduce him selves, probably because we're really lazy and don't like to do the upfront research but also because guest  do a better job at introducing themselves. So could you introduce yourself a little bit to our listeners? What is your story, what's your background and why are we talking. Ryan: Yeah, I appreciate it, I'm glad to be on the show I'm usually the one doing the interviewing so this is actually a lot of fun. So Ryan Tansom, my Dad and I had a family business kind of a little bit of backdrop back in 2014 we end up selling it. He grew it from the ground up, bought a semi [inaudible 0:04:32] of copiers in the mid 90's and ended up growing a very substantial business that I think we've topped for about 20 million and a hundred employees, and I joined the firm full time in financial crisis, and it was pretty much lot of all hands on deck for the seven years I was there. It was.. We realized that company was not sellable  because there's a private equity firm that was buying out platform companies in each marketplace, and we have the opportunity of potential to be one of those, and they passed on us so we spent pretty much in next 6 years, 7 years going. Okay what do we need to do to build a sellable business that either I buy it or we sell it to someone else we didn't really know what were options so we just roll up our sleeves and did a bunch of stuff. Build out the outsource, the IT. Remarketed ourselves, did a bunch of stuff, and then in 2014 ended up selling it to a local competitor here which the sale went very well financially, but we left a lot of money in the table from a lack of tax planning and some other deal structure that things we could done creatively, and then also we found out a strategic sale like that that there's a lot of redundancies, so I ended up having to fire a lot of my good friends, and family and the employees, so since then I've been in a mission to figure out how do you align your grow strategy with your exit strategies so that you will get what you want, regardless whether it's financial or you know, anything associated with your business that you know, whether it's legacy or culture, and stuff like that. Hopefully I sent too much but it's definitely the backdrop of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Mark: Alright so there's a lot that we can unpack here and we're going to have try to pick a branch and go with it, because I think there's a lot that we can unpack here. Business that you and your dad sold, this is more of a traditional offline business right? copier sales? Ryan: Yeah, where on we have15 sales representatives that were knocking on the doors and I wish we would have done something that would have been a hybrid, and we would have probably gone that direction, had we, continue grow on the business, but I think, you know, every offline businesses, which is what we were, has the opportunity to have the hybrid online stuff that a lot of that community that you're involved and I'm involved you know. Mark: Yeah, I think a lot of the online community is moving towards this more traditional business model, at least in the E-Com Space and you've seen it all. So in the and largest as company, because they do develop our staffs and in onboarding, customer service and all that. So similar to your stuff.. So I guess, let's talk first about the fact that you left money on the table, with your.. You spent six years trying to hammer the business industry, I think there's a discussion in there on it's own, like, how do you line your crawl strategies and your business strategies with an extra strategy, but I like to know a little more about the money on the table. A lot of times when we say people leave money on the table, that's because they have maximized the sale price of their business, but were there other areas where you've guys felt that you left money on the table? Ryan: You know, I think yeah, there's a lot of different variables in this, and you know, I've got a Podcast too. I've interviewed lots of entrepreneurs that have soul and I've tried to unpack this exact topic as well and there's the “Hey there's a price so I might want to give you 2 million dollars for your business” it doesn't mean that you're getting 2 million bucks because you're paying taxes, so there's the whole deal structure whether it's asset sales or stock sales, or how the deal structured from earn outs, from an SBA loan financing, whatever it is, you know, when someone starts courting you, whatever dollar amount is thrown out, there's a lot after the fact than what actually comes in your bank account. So whether that's a tax planning, the deal structure, you know, escrow all that kind of stuff, and then there's the maximize the value of the business, so there's kind of, two different key components to it. Mark: Yeah and I think, just by way of example, within online businesses, say that your [inaudible 0:08:10] corp, and somebody wants to buy your business for 5 million dollars. Great, and they're getting an SBA loan and everything looks good, but then you get to it and at the end of your purchase agreement there's this asset allocation agreement that's to how is this been allocated tax wise, and the buyer says “Well, we want to pay, out of 5 million, we want 1 million to be your salary for the next 2 years for consulting, that's part of the purchase price” well now that comes at ordinary income tax, cruise up your whole tax, percent tax situation.. Ryan: Because you know [inaudible 0:08:41]? Mark: Yeah, how much are you getting from that point, and you're from, for buyers trying to relegate towards income, makes sense because they can learn it off in a way, because they were going towards assets, it's a long period of times that they can make that of. So, there's a lot of, like you said there's a lot more complexities there, in terms of the deal structure. So let's talk about maximizing the value, the dollar amount. Did you feel like you guys left some money on the table with that? Ryan: No, actually we did as much as we could of, because our business naturally.. I got it appearing to what is the, honestly the best kind of business because we had contracts, that were locked in with reoccurring revenue, backed by bank financing, we've bundled them with maintenance, so like, if you want to buy, manage IT services with.. You know, bundle them with servers, firewalls, maintenance, copiers. I mean you'd be bundled in finances and then, it'll be 60 months typically and it'll be in.. It's as good as a mortgage, so when you're looking at what we did and what our industry.. It wasn't something that we were like geniuses or anything, either the whole industry, I've been gone that way and I think the whole industry was built of greedy sales people. In reality it was good as mortgages because you can't cancel. So, it didn't really matter when you think about a strategic sale like that, the relationships of the sales people, the admin, all the infrastructure was redundant. Because we can literally just take a bunch of paperwork and give it to someone else. And so what you're mitigating less on the sale on like the, EBITDA, multiples, because the cash flow is not the situation, it is your Han dinging over contracts. So I don't think there's anything we could have particularly done on that aspect to maximize the sale of the business, but the industry itself taught me, what, “we got lucky, is pretty much what it came to” versus “we could always use other business, where it might be, a 50 million dollar consulting company and there's nothing to sell besides a bunch of people”. So, I realized, after the facts that we got lucky and there's a lot of other ways to maximize the value of the business from the strategic operational side of it. And then it comes down to, we sold a couple of branches prior to selling the corporate headquarters, so the first time we sold our branch we got  about half the price because we didn't have preliminary due diligence done, they didn't trust us, we couldn't get the right documents and all these different things so there was technical stuff on that aspect that we, by that time we ended up selling, we knew what questions are coming at us and why. Mark: How did that impact the price the second time around? Ryan: Second time around when we ended up settled…  I mean we closed in 2 weeks. Mark: I know how. Ryan: Very substantial sale so average closing is, either we talk in months and months and months, either because, we came there with a package and said this is exactly what we have, here's our profitability, here's where every single dime goes in and out of the business, here's why, here's our, I mean employee contracts, customer contracts, lender contracts. I mean everything was just ready, versus the first time and we knew it was like, we're bumbling idiots. Didn't have any clue what they're asking and why. Mark: Yeah, we've created a very simple paradigm at Quiet Light Brokerage that we call the 4 pillars of value and that is, look at the risk of your business, the growth opportunities, how transferable it is and the last one would be in documentation. Now I think sometimes people take that documentation that light as to.. Well, it may not really make that much of a difference on the value of the business, it's just going to make it easier, actually makes a difference in the value of the business too. Ryan: 100% yup, I got people that I know, that I've interviewed and talked to, where their value actually went up by 30% because.. But with a click of a button, especially by drop box these days and software where you can, “Hey here's everything” A – you can get more buyers at the table quickly, if you can do that instead of having threads through all these documents, but, you end up as the seller end up guiding the process more than the buyers. Because in the marketplace 90.. No, plus % the time the buyers are coming in there and they're going to find every reason to discount that companies so they can  make in return.   Mark: Right! and on top of that it's risk right? So a buyer takes a little good in business with poor documentation, and they don't know what they don't know. And so they see that as being risky and they will discount an account for that risk as well on the purchase price, and you don't have your stuff together, you can't defend against it. Alright let's talk about strategic sales. Because you guys did a strategic sales and this is something that I find a lot of questions on. First let's talk about what was the difference between a strategic and a marketplace sale in your realm. Ryan: So it's my world it's every world right? So a strategic sale realm, let's start with the financial sale. The financial sale whether it's an ecommerce business or if it's a traditional business or whatever it is, someone's looking for a cash flow. What's transferable cash flow? So if I want to buy Quiet Light, if you guys are dropping a half a million bucks to the bottom line or whatever it is, I want to.. How transferable is that? So that's where the multiple EBITDA comes from. So, if I can buy that chas flow without having any risk that it's going to decline, and you apply a multiple which is how many years, what's my rate of return that I want,  3 years, 5 years, whatever it is, and the more transferable that is the higher the multiple goes up. So, I mean someone that's looking for cash flow as a lifestyle buyer, a private equity buyer, I would say that there's also strategic financial buyers which is someone that understands MNH extremely well and knows how to do this, that's kind of like a hybrid. So they're looking for cash flow and they're applying a rate of return based on the risk of the business and the asset. Then you and this strategic sale which I think is one of the funniest ones because every business owner, every entrepreneur that I sit down in front of, or I talk to, you know your business, you're intrigued better than anybody else out there, right? So you know who you'd partner with, where they collaborations with you, all these different things, and I don't want to say the multiples even they go out the window, but it's more of how fast, in terms of, if thinking of rate of return from 3 years to 5 years, or wherever the buying might be, and the rate of return is, how fast can we pay for that? So regardless of the EBITDA, now you're saying “okay well, are there complimentary products and services? Is there a cross pollination between customer list” Is there horizontal ways, there are vertical ways you guys can expand, and if you can think about everything in the terms of the buyer, the strategic buyer and what they would do with your business, you can literally model it out for them, how fast they can pay you for your company. Mark: Yeah, so this is great. I want to talk about this because we get this question, wow goodness, probably one out of every four or five people that contact us to sell. One of the very first things that they say is “Well I have a few companies of mine that might be a good fit for us” and they're thinking it in terms of that like strategic sale, they think it's going to be much more valuable to them and there is some truth to this the webhosting industry it's a classic example, webhosting, at the very first I sold working with Quiet Light Brokerage, first started Quiet Light Brokerage was a webhosting company, and webhosting company has a tons of roles because it has a bunch of user accounts that is on our servers and it's very easy to migrate that user accounts over to another server, keep the packages the same as really just paste and transfer it **** sometime **** and a monthly contract so it's really really easy without transfer overall stuffs, so like you said all of the expense profile of those companies you do really care about that because if I me acquiring a company I already have those expense profiles. I know what to cost me to host for 500 clients, so it will become a client count. Now when you're talking about strategic sale, like I said, there is not only to redundancies which you dea'lt with, first hand, it sound like,  in your sale redundancies where you have multiple sales people doing the same thing so you a lots of people go, but there is also the synergies of my crop up with one company that is a name in an industry right? Ryan: Right! And there's [inaudible 0:16:28]for us, it was, that we didn't sell telecom. It was the one thing in outsource, the IT in office technology that we didn't do, since okay, we got, you know, 2 or 3 thousand accounts, how many people can you sell telecom to? A lot, probably. So that is not guarantee in profit that they're going to make, but it makes a deal look better, you know, then you can make some basic assumptions or something like that, and then you know, cash or order discount on suppliers. We weren't taking advantage of that. So we start to think about any way. Going to that buyer and saying, here's all of the things that you can literally get packaging up for them, and you know, I think there's some people that you and I know in Rhodium, and why see that, the reason that they start on their family to start in the retail, wedding industry, they got online… well, weddings usually don't have repeat customers, you know there are couple every now and then.   Mark: Hopefully not.   Ryan: I usually do subscription services so, what are different ways that they can expand their products and services, because they have a crazy amount of volume that come through their doors every single year. Because they got a very good foothold in Minnesota here, but so it's their robes, it's their jewelry, it's there. Other things that they can sell them and they know the volume of their customers, so you know, yeah there's the sale or the purchase price and the profit but they're more looking at do I build it or I buy it? So they know how long it's going to take the opportunity cost of how long it's going to take to build it, screwing things up, all that kind of stuff. Mark: Right, alright so let's talk about how you would.. Let's say, we have a listener out there, they own a business and they're thinking, “I've really like a strategic sale just because my business is unique enough I think there will be enough benefit for maybe 3 or 4 companies that are sort of [inaudible 0:18:03]my industry. How would they want to go about preparing their business and thinking about that exit, a potential strategic sale. Ryan: That is a good question and I think you know this whole conundrum of exit planning and grow planning.. I believe that if entrepreneurs are running the business the way that they should and working on the business not in the business, and treating their business like an actual investment, then it is like, where are all the different options that I can sell to whenever and how fast can I [inaudible 0:18:29] so it's being ready no matter what. If you are in love and addicted to a girl then you're having a blast, great! But always be ready for industries that change, Google changes their algorithm, Facebook gets kind of a little bit a heat like they are right now, always preparing yourselves so that, the first and foremost is the due diligence, your docs, and knowing, and really cleaning up your financials because, if you can answer any kind of questions that even your friend would ask, the buyer is gone just, completely slam you down. So getting your house in order, the financials, and the due diligence is one thing, but then, thinking about, “Okay so these are going to be.. These five companies are companies that i can eventually sell to” Who are they and what, why and how will your decisions in the business affect where you're going. So for example if one of the companies is running and you know, he is an Amazon merchant or something or someone is running on Shopify, don't go build out a Magento, you know, spend 300 grand in Magento if someone that you're going to sell it to is doing Shopify. I mean, that's the same thing that we did. We spent 300 grand on an ERP's because 85% of the people on our industry had it. That's why we could close in 2 weeks. Knowing how you are spending the money and why in relationship to where you're going to sell, and again, so if you think about, if your service has complimentary service to just someone else. Don't go spent a bunch of money building out something that they have. Because you are not going to get a return so you're going to spend, your immediate cash flow, but then you're not going to get the attitude because they don't seem [inaudible 0:19:58] I think it's aligning where want to go and why and then also that strategic decisions that you are doing in between there. Mark: Yeah, alright I want actually bring a really basic level here, because the thing is important point to make special more talking about strategic sales. I think people get with the financial market sale where you take a look at the profitability of the company and you have Joe blow buyer come in who really isn't related to the industry. We all know that he wants to get return on that investment after 3 or 4 years, you'd see that investment come back in so it's pretty easy to apply a multiple. Sometimes when we're talking about strategic sales people come and go crazy and they start thinking, well, look at all the upside potential that is going to come about from this and so they start lowering their valuation expectations through the roof because sometimes strategic do get really high relative valuations of this realm to the financials, that said, I'm going to make a very basic statement here and I'm sure you'd agree. Strategic still need to see an ROI, right? They still need to see a return of investment. Yeah so, what you're saying is when you're building out your company, when you're really planning that exit and working on the company, think about the ROI that the potential buyer is going to have and don't build something that's going to super expensive for them to migrate it over, right? Ryan: Right and it's like, so how we went about it is, I want to know this business, I want to know why they should buy this business more than anybody else. So like, I want to know everything about their business, I want to know exactly what their marketing strategy is, what their profitability strategy is, I want to know their strategy just as well as they do, whether you can or not. Because then you can show exactly how you fill their strategic plan, based on what they're buying. Mark: Right, so let's talk about modeling a little bit. When you're talking about strategic sale in your case with your dad in your business, [inaudible 0:21:41] done in season staff and so, when you're looking at presenting the financial picture to potential acquiring company, how did you go about that? How did you pitch it as far as the ROI? Ryan: So, I had like literally our entire.. I mean we have cash list statement and we learned a lot first time, right? So I knew every single penny that went in our business and why, so we did some serious cash flow modeling so we had our whole P&L, and then we had the forecast of what was going on to the sales and the cost of goods, our profitability, and I hacked a bunch of stuff through it, and I said okay, and I buy GL code Mark.. Mark: Wow Ryan: We did a.. Yeah, I know. Because there's the, in the financial buy, there's the add backs, right? So, a hundred grand might be 300 grand on the value, whether it's being added to the value or not. So, usually in the financial buys, you want to take that off to increase your EBITDA, so that way it's applied to the multiple. But in this system the same thing were [inaudible 0:22:41] you don't need these people, you don't need these servers, you don't need these things because you already have them. So, that is all dropping to the bottom line which will then help them calculate the ROI's so, we just looked on them and say okay, here's how much of the expenses you can take out of this, with these assumptions and then move back and forth, you said, what we actually need these people, we need these things, and then you're just negotiating back and forth but it was not more in the add backs, it's more of understanding the redundancies and the strategic value behind this. So it's a similar exercise but, you know, and now comes actually kind of the same but it's more specifically to operations. Mark: Well on the key pieces I think, needs to be understood is you need to understand the industry and the business itself. We work for the financial, forex leads site, this was several years ago. And they were getting lots of leads that they were selling and they wanted to arrange a strategic sale to a forex broker. Because they knew that they were jittering these leads and so that the equation really became okay. We know how much we're getting paid out on their [inaudible 0:23:43] basis for these leads. But as a forex broker, here's where the dollar amount for the valid leads are, and now we can start modeling our what does this look like, how much revenue is this site really making, from a forex broker's standpoint and then the other value proposition there. Ryan: Yeah it's literally of about knowing both of the businesses and the industry as well as you possibly can. So you can just design exactly how it looks. And then you backing up numbers, you know, I'm just kind of making some other things up but like, you and I have talked and I think that was when you were on my show, we're talking about the hybrid of the online versus offline and so, if someone has literally the best data ever on their drip marketing, their automation in their online marketing and knows exactly the entire cost of acquisition of one wheel, and whether it's Facebook ads or Google ads, all of what the email mark and you say “here's how much all this stuff cost,” they can go in and if you're going to [inaudible 0:24:38] and sink that up with an offline business, like there's some huge power there because you know that they're not doing that potentially. So you can, there's just so many different ways to design that I guess. That's kind of the fun part. Mark: Yeah and the nice thing about strategic is that there's really, you have the ability to blow a traditional valuation out of the water, right? That's one of the big advantages. Transitions can also be a little bit easier because they already know the industry and so you don't run saying “here's how you do this little process that you should probably know anyways” it's a little easier to transition. When I talk to people about doing strategic, so I often tell them that I don't think it's a good idea for them. And the reason I say that is mainly because they're difficult to do if you haven't been preparing. How long do you think it takes to really prepare business for a strategic? Ryan: So I think maybe I'll go back with remarkable steps which is what's the order of operations I think you should do to do this correctly, right? So kind of the assumptions to repeat is beat your foundation setup, build your financials, build healthy business from recurring revenue, the clarity of all these different things, making sure you don't have a bunch of concentration in one client, all the typical ways of de-risking your business and if you're striving to make a healthy business like that then you'll have lots of options. So at the bare minimum, you should be able to sell to a financial buyer, so then called to 3 to 5 times multiple EBITDA. So you know that, financially going okay, if it's 200 grand, I know that I'm going to be getting 600 or a million. Whenever it might be, right? So I know that's how or that's my target. But with a strategic sale, you could completely blow it out of the water, but that's kind of like hunting. It's hunting for unicorns or really specific synergies so you mention 5 people, that's fantastic but, what if they don't want it? What if they're struggling? What if they don't have the money? Don't have the ability to get banked? All those different things. Those are things that you don't know and yes you should work towards them so I think, to answer your question, I don't know but really helps with that, it's like, we knew our buyer. Like  half of our employees has hog back and forth, you know, we're in the same industry trade associations so, I actually had taught the woman I interviewed yesterday at my show, she would have spent 2-3 years building and fostering those relationships, so those people could have been at the table. She didn't do that, so this is more of a relationship building, going in Rhodium Weekend, going to the YC Events, going to [inaudible 0:27:00] all these different things where people build relationships. And then what ends up happening is, I [inaudible 0:27:06] the bar over a napkin, and then you're back in the stuff. Mark: Yeah absolutely, that's actually normal when I [inaudible 0:27:13] people that want to do strategic is, if you want to know strategic, 2 or 3 years down the road, contact the companies now and don't say “Hey I want to sell to you” just contact and do that real networking stuff and get out there. Once they've become aware of your company, and you start to learn each other's companies, then you can sort of see that conversation for down the road. Ryan: And then you get out on their radar, right? Because you're not on their radar otherwise. So, there was actually a really interesting story that I heard Mark from one of the guys I interviewed in my Podcast, where he was at a trade association, he started talking one of the base competitors and he goes “Why don't you buy me?” and that's how he started and they started, you know, BS and then it went around and then the guy has said “You know what? Let's have a [inaudible 0:28:00] every 6 months call to see how you're doing” and these people literally told him exactly what to do, so they could buy him. Mark: That's great. Ryan: That was super unique, right? His name is Norm Brodsky, he wrote Street Smarts and he was a part of the small giants book, so he's on the cover of [inaudible 0:28:16] and a lot of exposure but like, I think the concept is very unique, because if you wanted to buy my business, why don't you just keep telling me what to do, and if everything works, I mean, like I said it's kind of a shooting for the starts, but I mean, you got really nothing to lose at that point especially if you don't need to sell. Mark: Yeah alright. So you said a couple of things a while ago, I think is a good foundation I have and this is a general advise, and feel free to disagree with it if you disagree with any of the advice that I typically give people and respect them on this. With strategic, yeah you can get the out of the water valuation sometimes. But it all starts with first making their business safe, financially viable business and in someone that you can sell in a financial market. You are dealing few buyers, this is probably the biggest obstacle to a strategic sale, you might have half  a dozen companies that can potentially acquire a business and the sake people make is they went in and say “I want to sell my business” then they called ABC company and ABC company's saying “Yeah we don't have a million dollars” or “You were not in our annual budget this year” or “Acquisitions were not in our plan for this year”. Ryan: Right, I'd pause you there for a second. They may have the money, but like, everybody's busy, right? So what if they're developing their own software or doing something else, they might just not have the physical time to integrate the two companies. Mark: Right. Yeah absolutely. So you need to have that relationship in place and it has to make sense as being a natural evolution. Kind of like a marriage, right? I mean.. Ryan: Yeah, totally. I mean, you're partnering up with someone. Mark: Yeah, and last thing I would say is, take a look to see if actually does make sense. That first company that is sold, in the webhosting space, I could've sold that very easily in a strategic sale, because there was so many strategic happening, we did a financial sale because we knew we're going to get more money. So, where you can often blow the top of the valuation with this strategic, it doesn't always happen that way. Sometimes financial actually does work a little bit better. Kind of a weird, odd case. Ryan: Sorry you're.. Mark: No, go ahead please. Ryan: I think the one thing to that people really need to think about, because you might blow the valuation off the charts, but I tell you what Mark, the reason why I do what I do now is because we got the financial target that we wanted to hit, I literally had to fire 60 of my friends and family. So if your culture in your employees and the clients.. You have to understand what's important here because in a strategic sale redundancies are huge. So, how will you stomached that afterwards? Like going and calling all of our employees in, they was way at 85 or something like that at that time and they only kept [inaudible 0:30:47] I mean like, that's literally the stomached ache. Are you going to be proud and happy about what you build? Is it just a financial target that's fine and you have people dispersed across the US and there's a lot of VA's and you're not orally loyal to them or if there's people that you care about, like they are role playing that strategic sale I think is extremely important so you can calibrate against all your options. Mark: That's a really, really good point. So what do you do now? What are you doing these days? after the sale, of course. Ryan: So other than being in the Podcast just like yourself, so, we have a company called GEXP Collaborative, so, it's Growth and Exit Planning collaborative, that's what it's stands for, and it took a lot of time, over the last for years.. Exit planning I think there's some negative [inaudible 0:31:33] to it because you might not want to sell right now, but it's literally both having a good business. So we combined the two which is growth and extra planning because it's like, we're talking about what are your plans and then how do you back in to all your strategic plans, they sell where you're trying to go with you options and I found some amazing people in the industry that have different disciplines because you got legal, finance, the front insurance, deal structures, you have the business brokers, you got all these people, and they all play a roll, and how do you back into that plan? So, if you kind of think, we're almost like a building, If you start a building you start with the budget and a blueprint, because you can't build a building without either of those, so the budget is your financial targets, where you want to go and why, so is there debt, net, the amount that you need or cash [inaudible 0:32:22] and what's the blueprint. So what are the five different strategic buyers and then you got the six financial purchase, timing, role, responsibility, and you're back and do it, so you can then hire the team [inaudible 0:32:34] so the growth next to planning that we do with the collaborative team is literally building the budget and a blueprint, and then actually coordinating the team like a general contractor because no one person can do all this stuff. I've been doing it non-stop day and day of four years, and I still couldn't single hand lay out to someone. Mark: Yeah, there's a lot involved with that.. now if somebody is listening to this, one of the misconception running to all the time, with clients that come to us and say I want to sell, I'm not really ready because I did not plan ahead maybe should've talked to somebody 2 or 3 years ago. We try to get people to talk to us, the brokers, a few years in advance. For you, you're focusing again on that growth as well so even if somebody isn't ever planning to sell, it still makes sense to talk about that growth. Ryan: Because the reality is you're going to do the best of your business at some point. I mean, there's people, like I work within this, the baby boomers, well they're going to die in your business but then what you're doing is you're working on the shares and the estate planning and dispersing the shares to employees, and to kids, and do trust, so he's going to sell his company, and you know what, he loves it, great! But then there's, build a business that has value and has cash flow and you de-risks then you can literally do whatever you want whenever you want. So yeah you're right it's coming ahead of time but then also knowing the people like you and building these relationships, you can't do this at the last second, you're going to leave money on the table, you're not going to be as happy with terms and conditions and so many times Mark, and I don't know if you see this, but a lot of people that are out there, and the people that are in aggressive growth path, they're all acquiring company so the out of the blue offers happen all the time. So whether it's PE firms or funds or other strategic buyers, and how do you know what to weigh that against if you don't have a plan? So you don't even know like how much I'm going to get? What terms? I mean, you're thinking on the fly and that usually doesn't go as well..   Mark: Right! The number of time I've heard from clients, get in to this process and say, “Man, I really wish I've contacted you a year ago” I mean it happens all the time, no one ever thinks about selling their business until they actually want to sell their business and I think what's really cool about what you're doing is you're focusing again not just the exit, you're focusing on growth. Because a good growth strategy is a good exit strategy they often go hand in hand. Ryan: You're back can do it. You know, I just have a little plug for you guys too, because we do not do what you do, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they really think, because they understand their business so well that they can sell their business by themselves, and “Oh my gosh” it's the first time you're going to do it and why.. Like every one of those professional should pay for themselves, it should be your return of investment, what to spend, because you know it's an emotional roller coaster first of all and it's like a 24/7 fire drill while you are in the process which is what your team does, right? so I think all the people, if you have the right advisors, and that's another reason left a lot of money on the table, is you need to have the right advisers. I mean it wasn't people that do it all they want, they do transactions, they understand the market, your industry, and so having the right team is crazy important. Mark: Yeah, alright could you plug as well if anyone listen to this and enjoys the Quiet Light podcasts, and hopefully you do if you've listened this long, Ryan's Podcast talks a lot about the same stuff, you talk a lot about selling, you talked to a lot of entrepreneur's who has sold their businesses before, and you go over a lot of the same material, but with a little bit of a difference spinned to it, really, really high quality content and another one, what was name of the Podcast where can they find it? Ryan: “Life after Business” Mark: Life after Business. Awesome! So we will link to it in the show notes on our Podcast page, we'll also link over the Ryan's website, and Ryan, anything else that you want us to link or to want to draw attention to, please feel free. Ryan: We got a resources tab just like you, you're my model right? So I guess I said year and a half ago, you put me in the right direction with the presence that I wanted online, so we got white papers, and resources and Podcasts and all that kind of stuff so. Mark: Awesome, so definitely check at his site and feel free to reach out to him, if you just want to talk, he's a good guy to talk to. You know I can talk all day about this stuff and someday we probably will. Thanks for coming I really appreciate it. Ryan: Yeah, had a blast Mark, Thanks! Mark: Alright. Links and Resources: www.gexpcollaborative.com Ryan's website Life after Business Podcast Ryan's podcast link

Jeff Toister Show Notes Jeff Toister helps customer service teams unlock their hidden potential. He is the best-selling author of The Service Culture Handbook: A Step-by-Step Guide To Getting Your Employees Obsessed with Customer Service. More than 140,000 people on six (6) continents has taken his video base training courses on LinkedIn Learning aka Lynda.com. Jeff’s 15 training videos on LinkedIn Learning include Customer Service Foundations and Leading a Customer Centric Culture. Jeff was named one of the top 30 customer service professionals in the world by Global Gurus. He was also named one of the top 50 Thought Leaders to Follow on Twitter by the International Customer Management Institute. Feedspot has named his Inside Customer Service Blog one of the Top 50 customer service blogs on the planet. Jeff holds a Certified Professional in Learning and Performance (CPLP) certification from The Association for Talent Development. Questions Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey Can you tell us about your journey in writing the book – The Service Culture Handbook: A Step-by-Step Guide to Getting Your Employees Obsessed with Customer Service? What is culture? As entrepreneurs, what are some of the things they should be thinking about? What are some advice you would give to an employee or a business owner who is trying to sustain a service culture and with growth they have not been able to manage the culture with the massive growth that they have experienced? How do they scale but at the same time maintain that same service culture and experience? How do you stay motivated every day? What is the one online resource, website, tool or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business? What are some of the books that have had the biggest impact on you? What is one thing in your life right now that you are really excited about – something that you are working on to develop yourself or people? Where can our listeners find your information online? What is one quote or saying that you live by or that inspires you in times of adversity? Highlights   Jeff Toister stated that what compelled him the spectrum of customer experience was the very first customer he served. He would love to say that it was a success story but it wasn’t, he didn’t do a good job and that changed things for him. He was 16 years old, he was working in a retail clothing store and he had gotten about 15 minutes of training and the person that was supposed to be training him said, “I’m going on break, good luck, here’s the key to the dressing room. Do the best you can, I’ll be back.” He was nervous as young kids often are and I didn’t know what he was supposed to do. A customer comes up to him and he’s just thinking, “Oh no, I don’t know anything” and that’s obviously the wrong mindset but that’s the mind set he had. The customer asked, “Do you carry Dockers?” it’s a brand of khakis and he knew what they were, he had no idea if they carried them or not and so he’s looking around the store and he’s hoping that there’s a big neon sign that says, “Dockers right here” but there was not. And being 16 years old and being inexperienced, the first words that came out of his mouth were, “I don’t know” and without getting a second chance to recover, he got angry and he said, “Wow, this is terrible service” and he stormed out of the store. He knows that that was the wrong answer, the challenge is when you’re employee in that situation how do you stop yourself from giving that wrong answer, that comes with experience, life experience and training knowledge and so in that moment he knew it wasn’t the right answer, he knew he didn’t do well and he never wanted to feel that way again, that was many years ago but throughout his entire career, he has always gravitated towards 2 things: customer service but in particular, What makes employees tick? How do we help our customer service employees perform their very best? And how do we remove these obstacles where we put them in a position where they are not as able to be successful? He has always been fascinated with customer service, he has always been fascinated with training and all of his jobs have focused on that and for the last 12 years he has been a consultant who helps organizations tackle these types of problems.   Yanique stated that she finds it interesting that it was a not so positive experience that propelled you into this because as a consultant that many times when a customer becomes loyal to business, if you track back the root cause, it’s usually a dissatisfied customer who dealt with an employee who was able to turn the situation around and just because of how it was handled, now every time they come back to that business they only want to deal with that particular employee, they’ll even wait sometimes if they’re on vacation to come back from vacation to transact business with that company and it all came out of a negative experience.   Jeff mentioned the “Peak-End Rule” (Psychology Term), he stated that it explains what Yanique said is true. It’s about customer perception or perception in general that we tend to not notice things that are normal. We tend to notice things that are different than normal and what really stands out is the thing that is most different and so the bad experience if you kind of think of that as the heartbeat of customer service, the bad experience is kind of like this really bad deviation from our normal experience and then a really good correction, really good fix is a huge difference. So, it stands out because it’s such a leap from a horrible experience to this great experience, it becomes imprinted in our memories and that’s the peak part, if it’s the last experience we had with that organization or that person, that really gets imprinted in our memories. So, the Peak End Rule kind of explains why that big gap, it’s so true when we recover from a bad experience, that’s what really sticks in our customers’ mind.   Jeff Toister shared that he’s glad that Yanique’s impression of his book was that it’s a practical guide and he really appreciate that because that was the goal in writing it. He found a couple things and one was that he consistently had this theme with his client which was culture, “How do we get our employees obsess with service?” and the other thing he found quite frankly was that companies tend to have money to invest in technology, they often don’t have the budget to invest in people and he thought, “If I could put this into a book and make it a practical step by step guide, maybe they can’t afford to hire me or you to come in, we wish they would. If they don’t have the budget for that, this book will give them everything I’m already sharing with my clients.” That was the starting point to say he’s going to make these ideas available. So where did they come from, they came from work he was doing but then he wanted to profile companies that were successful, and one of his biggest challenges in writing the book was, he didn’t want to include some of the usual suspects - the Zappos, the Southwest Airlines, the Nordstrom, the Disney, the Ritz Carlton, not to take anything away from those organizations, it’s just that we’ve heard their stories so many times, there are other companies out there that are delivering amazing service. So, you ask where did those stories come from? He started researching what other organizations have a strong service culture where they’re known, they have the reputation, maybe it’s service ratings, maybe it’s stories written about them, they’re known for having employees who are obsessed with service and then he started researching, what do they do and it was amazing to him that there was a consistency across all of these companies, in terms of how they approach it and so he was able to pull his own work and in the research he did into these companies and put them into the step by step guide and say, “Hey, there is something here. There’s a process that all of these organizations are following and we can give this recipe to anybody who cares to follow it.”   Yanique agreed that he tries to look at a very practical, operational way that any business, even if it’s a small business with just 5 employees would be able to extract that information and run with it in their own company.   Jeff stated that even a team because one of the biggest questions he gets is that people say, “I read the book but I’m not the CEO and I don’t even think my CEO cares too much about service, she says it important but I know she really cares about the budget.” And that’s fine, you can still use the book. He has examples in there with specific teams or departments, so whatever the size, whether you’re the CEO or you’re just leading the small team within a bigger company, the goals and the ideas that you can use these tools to create a service culture in whatever you control.   Jeff stated that he thinks sometimes culture is one of those words that we take for granted, we all say, “Culture is important” but maybe we mean different things. To him, culture when we’re talking about an organizational perspective, it’s a system of behaviors and beliefs, it’s how a group of people act or thinks and understand the world. Sometimes we think culture is a statement that says, “This is our motto or these are our values” and that’s not quite accurate. Culture is what people actually do, so if people are living those values each and every day then those values are accurate and they reflect your culture, if not, then they’re pretty empty. He gave an example, there was a bank in the United States about a year ago, there was this huge scandal because what they were doing was opening accounts for customers that didn’t request them. Millions of accounts were affected and the reason it was happening is because there were a lot of pressure for the individual employees to meet these very aggressive sales targets, so that’s what led to this huge scandal that the CEO resigned, there was a lot of fines, the Federal Government started to look into it. What was interesting though was that the CEO even in the moment when it was announce that the scandal broke and the CEO still had his job and he was announcing this scandal and this big settlement of a lawsuit, he still pointed to their culture as being customer focused and to him, that’s the perfect example of Your words doesn’t really matter if they’re not backed up by your deeds. How did people actually act? In that organization, the culture was about sales pressure and doing anything at all cost to sell a product. That was their actual culture. So, when you think about organizations and one of the organizations he wrote about in the book is a place call REI, if you love the outdoors, that’s the place to go for your camping equipment, your hiking equipment, bicycling, whatever. REI is an example of culture that really matches what they say. For example, if you go in and you’re looking for camping equipment, you’re not going to have somebody just kind of point you to the camping equipment aisle, the person who works there who’s going to help you is an avid camper, they love camping and they can’t wait to share with you what they know so that you can love camping too and that’s by design because they purposely stated that their goal as an organization is to help us all enjoy the outdoors. That to him is when culture matches what we’re saying, that’s pretty healthy but at the end of the day, culture is what we do, it’s how we perceive the world, it’s what we actually believe.   Yanique agreed and stated that in her process of dealing with some businesses this week, she called a company that deals with cooking gas and their office is not located in the city, it’s located on the outskirts of the city so it’s a 20-minute drive and she asked them if didn’t have any other mode of payment because she told the sales representative before they came that she will be paying by card and she specifically requested that the gentleman coming brings the card machine. He comes and he didn’t bring the card machine and of course he now informs her that she needs to drive all the way to the location to make the payment. So, she called them and said, “Can the payment be taken over the phone?” “Oh no, we just changed out our card machines and that’s not possible anymore.” Yanique called and ask them, “Do you expect me to drive 20 minutes outside the city just to get to you to make a payment for a service that you provided, I think you really need to talk to your finance department and think about a more customer friendly way to accept payments from your customers.” And it’s interesting because they were voted one of the best customer service organization in their industry and that left a bad experience. Even when the guys came, the service was good but then the payment part is a part of the service as well.   Jeff agreed and stated that whenever that happens, he always wonder why does it happen and is it that the person doesn’t want to do their job, sometimes but often it’s that they are put in that position or no one shared with that driver that Yanique had had that communication or that driver was specifically told, “We’re not doing cards so this is what you have to tell people.” Those employees are often put in a bad position where they almost can’t win.   Jeff stated that maintaining the same service culture and experience is a big challenge for a couple of reasons. One is that keeping culture exactly the same is impossible because culture changes, every time you add a new person to the team, every time you add a new product or a new line of service or a new channel, it changes just a little bit. He doesn’t know if it’s possible to keep culture the same but maybe consistent and have it grow and evolve in the right way, that’s maybe the goal for those businesses. The other challenge is scale, as businesses grow it becomes necessary for the business owner or the business leader to trust more people to do the work and that business owner can’t be in all places at all times, they can’t talk to every single customer and so the process of building a service culture really is about that scale question, “How do I instill in my employees what I believe in my core?” and the way to do that is that you have to make it clear, you have to articulate it. Just like how he was asked, “Let’s define service culture.” In these organization you have to define, “What does our culture look like?” and the tool that he uses is something called The Customer Service Vision, it’s a very simple statement, it could be something that you already have like a Vission or vision statement for your company but it’s very simple statement that says, “This is what outstanding service looks like.” And every employee in the organization has to understand what that vision statement is, what does it mean and most importantly, how do they personally contribute in their role and once you achieve that, then you can scale using that vision as a guide and that’s the first step, you’ve got to have that vision. The second step is employees all have to understand it and the third step is that you have to use that as a way of doing business, one thing he sees that business owners/ business leaders do that really hurt that effort is that they treat culture as a separate project, so people will maybe take time out of their normal job to do some cultural things, maybe on a culture committee or we’re doing culture as the theme for this year strategic planning and then we go back to work and just do our jobs, that’s not how you evolve culture, culture is our behavior so we need to use culture as a guide for making all decisions, it’s how we create strategy, it how we invest in technology and processes, it’s how we hire, it’s how we train people, it’s how as a leader you’re deciding what to put in front of your employees and talk about every single day and if we are not talking about culture and how outstanding service should look like then your employees are not going to believe that it’s important, they’ll focus and what you talk about and that’s the biggest challenge for leaders. Jeff also hear a lot of companies say to him, “We’re just so busy, we’re too busy to deal with culture.” And he would say, “No, you’re not because what you’re really doing is you’re still creating a culture, it’s just not the culture you need.”   Yanique agreed that with the point that even though they’re not focusing on culture, every organization has a culture but is it the culture that they really want and so if you don’t have intentionally activities, whether it be meetings, conversations, group outings, strategies built around what you’re trying to achieve, then the culture will emerge on its own. And so, you’d have a culture you don’t want all because there was no intentional act but not because you didn’t put any attention there doesn’t mean it’s not formed.   Jeff mentioned that often when you don’t put the intention there, it goes in the direction you really don’t want it to go.   Yanique mention that the take away from this interview is culture is not something that just doesn’t happen, it happens even without your intentional behavior behind it, it’s going to manifest and this is why you really have to intentionally work towards the culture you want. It’s like eating because we have to eat every day but if we don’t intentionally make an effort to eat healthy then we’ll eat anything and of course the body will just consume whatever you put inside of it and if you’re consuming negative thing then it will lead to disease and chronic illnesses versus taking an intentional approach towards eating, ensuring you do your meal preps, you exercise 3 to 4 times a week, you’re getting 8 to 9 hours of sleep per night, those are things that are intentional activities you schedule into your life to ensure it’s done every single day.   Jeff stated that he really likes this question because motivation is a part of something he looks at all the time, not just his own motivation but employee motivation. He thinks we often look at it the wrong way, we look at how we get motivated versus how to not be demotivated and so for him, motivation is easy, he does what he loves. He finds the inner section of what he loves to do and what he can be successful doing and where he has a little bit of skill. Jim Collins’ Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Other’s Don’t’ Built to Last : Successful Habits of Visionary Companies, one of his landmark books. He talked about this head shock concept for companies, it’s an inner section of what you love, what can you do well, what can you get paid to do and he takes that personally. And so, he gets up every day excited because he loves this. The demotivation happens not just for him but for everybody where we perceive that there’s obstacles that stand in the way of doing what we love. In a service environment, referring to his story about his first service encounter, that happens to employees every single day where they want to provide great service, almost every employee wants to provide great service but there’s some obstacle that they perceive is standing in their way and that’s what’s demotivating them. Every day he works on himself but he helps organizations and employees work on finding what are those obstacles and they can remove those obstacles, motivation becomes really natural.   Yanique stated that it’s interesting because she does workshops for organizations and a lot of questions that she hears from employees is that sometimes you can’t do what you love because you have bills to pay but then, if you have that kind of mindset which goes back into your attitude. Is it your motivation that affects your attitude or your attitude that affects your motivation?   In reference to Yanique’s question if motivation affects attitude or attitude affects motivation. Jeff stated that he is a big sports fan, so the team that’s winning, are they because they are motivator or are they motivated because they are winning. He thinks success breathes that and those two go together. Doing well, we feel good, we’re motivated and if we’re not doing well we feel bad with a bad attitude, we feel demotivated. There’s a concept called, “Learned Helplessness” that a lot of employees’ experience. What it is that over time they feel like they failed trying so they just stop trying. It gets really bad is a lot of times they stay in the same job, not every job is right for every person and so they’ll stay in the job or maybe they have those bills to pay and they don’t feel like they have another good option and so they kind of give up but they keep coming to work everyday and that makes it so much worst because it’s defeating.   Jeff stated that the tool that he uses every single day is a website called Highrise, it’s a way of keeping track of clients and projects all in one place. One of his core value is accountability and he believes if you say you’re going to do something, you do it. As an entrepreneur, you have a million things going on and trying to meet deadlines and maintain commitments and do what you say you’re going to do is extremely difficult. So, he uses that through every single day to keep track projects, initiatives, people and making sure he maintains all of his commitments but he also uses it to not just look at an individual commitment but how does that connect to all the other commitments he has made so that he’s not overloading his plate. He uses LinkedIn and Twitter every day as well and primarily to connect with other people and learn from other people and see what other people are doing as he thinks we are definitely in a relationship business. As someone whose passionate about training and adult learning, he’s always learning as well and that’s often where he finds “What are people doing that’s interesting?” So those would he his second and third picks.   Jeff shared that he loves to read and is sometimes reading 2 to 3 books at a time. He thought about and said, “What are the books that stick with me?” and that’s the challenge with the book, that we read a book and say, “Oh it’s good” and then you ask, “What have you used from that book?” Jeff shared that these are some book that he uses a lot. One is called Street Smarts by Norm Brodsky and Bo Burlingham and what he loves about it is that it’s an entrepreneurial perspective on the business side of running a business and he thinks in the world of customer service and customer experience, too many of us are unfamiliar or tentative around the business side, the number side. He had a discussion online with someone the other day where they were upset that executives only care about the budget and the point he tried to make and comes from this book is, the way to get executives to care about customer service is you have to translate customer service into numbers because that’s their language and if we’re not doing that or if we don’t know how, we’re only hurting ourselves. The next one is a book called Getting Things Done by David Allen, it’s a system for managing your time and commitments and it’s a principle based system rather than go out and buy this portfolio and you have to use this specific software, it’s more about principles to use whatever you feel comfortable using. He uses those principles to do things that allow him to keep on top of things. For example, at the end of everyday he has zero messages in his email inbox and for most people that’s unbelievable but it’s because he has these set of principles that David Allen shared with him in his book that he uses every day. The third book is a book that really made an impact on him, it’s called Lincoln on Leadership by Donald T. Phillips and what he did was he studied the United States’ 16th president which some people would say would be one of their most amazing leaders in history and he looked at some of the things that Abraham Lincoln did as a leader that we can pull from today. One of his favorite examples that he uses as a consultant and trainer is Lincoln was really the first president to spend a lot of time going to people rather than expecting people to come to him for a meeting or a conversation and the reason he did that, it’s management by walking around which we know now but the idea was, if you approach people in an environment where they feel comfortable and make them feel like we’re on an even keel and you’re not trying to intimidate them then they’re much more likely to open up to you and have an honest and frank conversation and he learned when he’s working with a client and he meets with their front line staff and ask them about their job, they are always ready to tell him exactly what is working well and exactly what they think is going wrong and he thinks it’s because of that principle of coming to them and making them comfortable.   Jeff stated he has this thing where he realizes that his audience doesn’t have a lot of budget to spend on customer service maybe technology but not on people. So, one of the things he has been trying to do is transform his own business where he can make resources, tool, concepts available to people at little to no cost and somehow still get paid. A few examples are his book, the investment on the book is USD $14.95 for the paperback or USD $9.99 for the kindle, that’s a pretty low investment yet he puts all the tools he uses as a consultant in that book so you don’t have to hire him because you probably have USD $14.95, you may not have his consultant fee. He has training videos on LinkedIn Learning and Lynda.com and he has learned that a lot of his clients and companies that he works with already has a subscription to one of those platforms, so you can get his training without having to pay for him to come in, the video is right there, it’s available to you and if you don’t have a subscription, it’s fairly inexpensive and then things like this podcast, he loved this opportunity and really appreciate it because it’s a chance for them to have a dialogue about service but it doesn’t cost anything to subscribe to the podcast and learn from it and learn from not just himself but from some of the other amazing experts that Yanique interview. Those are free resources that anybody can take advantage of and he’s really excited about the opportunity to help people wherever they are in their journey.                                                                                          Jeff shared listeners can find him at – Twitter - @toister (www.twitter.com/toister) Customer Service Tip of the Week – www.toistersolutions.com/tips Insider Customer Service Blog – www.toistersolutions.com/blog   Jeff shared that he’s not a big quote person, the reason he’s not a quote person, the first reason is because he sees quotes and they sound great but then what do we do with them. He’s more of an action person and the second reason is he has done research on some quotes and he has been disappointed to find that that person never said that or that’s not what they meant. He gave an example, the quote, “The customer is always right” no one said that and it bothers him that we have accepted this as some mantra in customer service and he did some research on where did this come from, why do we believe this and there is not really an agreement but it came from a few places. One possible source says Ritz Carlton and he said, “The customer is never wrong” and the context was that even if the customer is wrong, of course they are sometimes, you don’t argue with them, you just find a way for them to help them become right. Marshall Fields who is a famous retailer, he said, “Right or wrong, the customer is always right” and his point was the same thing that the customers will of course make mistakes but we don’t argue with them, our role here is to help them become right, to help them succeed. He wished he had a great quote to share but when he finds those quotes and he found out no one ever said that but the story behind the quote often is much more interesting.   Yanique mentioned that in most of her workshops towards the end of the session, she always explains to the participants that the customer is always right literally is not a true statement because there are times when the customer is wrong but what we should be guided by is the principle that as employees, we are not here to prove the customer wrong, we are here to help them, they are wrong but we are not here say, “Hey Mr. Customer, you’re wrong and we are going to punish you.” But more like, “It’s okay, let’s work back to how we can undo what’s happened and find a solution so that you can leave here feeling good, let’s make this right.”   Links Highrise Street Smart by Norm Brodsky and Bo Burlingham Getting Things Done by David Allen Lincoln on Leadership by Donald T. Phillips The Service Culture Handbook: A Step-by-Step Guide to Getting Your Employees Obsessed with Customer Service by Jeff Toister

Bo Burlingham is an absolute hero.  He was Editor at Large at INC. Magazine for years, Author of some of the business book classics like The Great Game of Business, Small Giants, Street Smarts and the Finish Big. His insights in Finish Big on how the greatest entrepreneurs exit on top lead me to create this podcast and build our firm. If it wasn’t for Bo, Solidity Financial wouldn’t be what it is today. He is undoubtedly the leading author on what it means to be a true Entrepreneur… one where there is a beginning, middle and end to a journey.  We felt it was high time we spoke to Bo about his experiences in putting together his trailblazing books… In this episode you’ll learn: How the greatest entrepreneurs exit their companies on top What the REAL journey of being an entrepreneur looks like How to finish big AND be a small giant Why 75% of entrepreneurs are unhappy after they sell their companies Why did Bo Burlingham write the book Finish Big? He’d been working for the magazine Inc for 25 years and never once had he heard anybody talk about the end game for the organization. This suddenly changed when his co-columnist Norm Brodsky received an offer for his company.This eventually formed a monthly column called “the offer”, which was basically an ongoing narrative on the trials and tribulations of the sale negotiations. The response they had was amazing – it turned out to be a topic that people simply couldn’t read about elsewhere – and it took off so much that at one point, the cover headline was “Norm Decides To Sell”. Alas, because certain things came to light towards the end of the sale, Norm didn’t sell after all, but the whole process made Bo realize that people were very interested in the subject, and that there was almost nothing else out there for people to read on the matter. So he decided to write his first book, which was to be based on the findings of a series of interviews with business owners who’d sold up. The regrets of selling a company… Through his interviews Bo found about half of the entrepreneurs were unhappy after they sold. He set about trying to understand the common themes in the back stories of those who were happy versus those who were unhappy. The 5 things entrepreneurs did to exit their company on top: They felt it was a fair process and got reasonable reward for the work they’d put into the business. They could look back at what they’ve done and feel pride that they’d contributed something to the world. They were at peace with what had happened to the other people that had been on the mission with them. They found something afterwards that they really became engaged in, i.e. something that gave them a life after business. Not an absolute constant but was true of some people…. their companies were doing well without them – they’d built a legacy. Bo felt that if an owner was missing just one of them, they were likely to have a very bad exit. How can you passionately grow a company that can thrive without you? To grow a company ‘artistically’ – with the kind of love that forms the basis of entrepreneurship – but then step away so the company doesn’t revolve around you like a hub and spoke can be the hardest part of being a business owner. Bo says this is the ultima

Katana will interview the creator of “Rewire Your Brain: 3 Habits That Will Change Your Life Forever” and author of “The First Habit: One Technique that Can Change Your Life”, Lewis Schiff.Join us as we’ll discuss how you can: Learn Your Language: Discover what you’re best at and maximize your compensation for thatPractice Perseverance: Find out why adversity is the most exclusive mentor to the self-made wealthyUpgrade Your Network: Invite “luck” and “magic” into your life by rebuilding your network using this simple process Lewis Schiff is the author of Business Brilliant: Surprising Lessons From the Greatest Self-Made Business Icons, the executive director of the Business Owners Council and the co-founder (with Norm Brodsky) of BEN Global Mentorship that helps business owners transform their companies into scalable enterprises and, eventually, enduring institutions with help from rockstar entrepreneurs from around the world. To learn more about Lewis Schiff go to poweredbyben.com

A little about our guests. Peter and Lydia have been together for 19 years and in business together 11 years. They have 2 adult daughters ages 35 and 26. Peter & Lydia’s oldest daughter is a part of their business. They are married but still shacking up (listen to the show if you want to know what that means). They are still passionately in love and working together just adds to the fun. A little about their business.Peter has been involved in the startup of a number of companies as a member of the launch team or an owner/team leader. But he travelled too much. Lydia’s background is in computer operations, software development, and in the management of software projects. She then became the co-founder and managing partner of her own consulting firm with clients such as Ford Motor Company and General Motors. One piece of advice (the nutshell version)Always fight fair. Words like “never,” “always,” and starting a sentence with “you are” is not fighting fair. If you can’t fight fair, step away until you can. Never start a conversation with “You.” Communicate how you feel. Reading MaterialCrazy Is a Compliment: The Power of Zigging When Everyone Else Zags by Linda RottenbergThe Knack: How Street-Smart Entrepreneurs Learn to Handle Whatever Comes Up by Norm Brodsky and Bo Burlingham Get in Touch with Our Guestswww.CustomBPS.com949-336-8284800-741-8444pmehit@custombps.comlmehit@custombps.com

On this week's show I have the honor of airing my recent interview with Elaine Brodsky, formerly of CitiStorage in New York City.  I had the opportunity to interview Elaine while we were at the O'Neil User's conference last week in Huntington Beach, California.Norm Brodsky may be the iconic personality typically associated with CitiStorage, however Elaine's major influence on the culture and growth of CitiStorage helped shape it into the powerhouse it is today.During our discussion, Elaine shares her perspective on how the company's culture developed and evolved.It is a powerful and moving interview — one I know you will remember.Enjoy!Special Thanks to our Exclusive Show Sponsor, O'Neil Software.

Bo Burlingham is an editor-at-large of Inc. magazine and chairman of the Small Giants Community. His book Small Giants: Companies That Choose To Be Great Instead of Big was one of five finalists for the 2006 Financial Times/Goldman Sachs Business Book of the Year award. His most recent book, co-authored with Norm Brodsky, is The Knack: How Street-Smart Entrepreneurs Learn to Handle Whatever Comes Up. (It is now available in paperback under the title Street Smarts: An All-Purpose Tool Kit for Entrepreneurs. What's Bo's definition of “mojo”? What companies have it? Which one's need it? How can you tell if you have a company with “mojo”? I love Bo's book, Small Giants: Companies that Choose to be Great Instead of Big. We'll discuss the inspiration. Good news for the other-than-Fortune-500 set! The importance of having a mentor. Finding one, being mentored…we'll explore! Bo co-wrote The Great Game of Business. What it's like to work with Jack Stack and how he managed to build a company that is bucking nearly every current economic trend? Stories from Inc. magazine. Bo has his finger on the pulse of business. What advice can he share to help YOU? Call in and ask for it!

Starting out in business is no easy task, especially in a down economy. In this podcast, Inc. magazine columnist Norm Brodsky offers advice for budding businesspeople, using his own successes and...

About "The Knack: How Street-Smart Entrepeneurs Learn to Handle Whatever Comes Up"People starting out in business tend to seek step-by-step formulas or specific rules for success, but in reality there are no magic bullets. Rather, says veteran company-builder Norm Brodsky, there's a mentality that helps street-smart entrepreneurs solve problems and pursue opportunities as they arise. He calls it "the knack," and it has made all the difference to the eight successful start-ups of his career.Brodsky explores this mind-set every month in Inc. magazine, in the hugely popular column he co-writes with journalist and author Bo Burlingham (best known for his acclaimed book Small Giants). In both their column and now their book, they tell stories about real companies facing real challenges and show readers how to apply "the knack" to their own businesses.About Norm BrodskyNORM BRODSKY had already launched seven successful businesses—including a three-time Inc. 500 company—by the time he began writing the Street Smarts column in Inc. magazine with Bo Burlingham in 1995. The column has proved to be enormously popular with readers of the magazine and was twice a finalist for a National Magazine Award. In 2008, it received a gold Azbee award from the American Society of Business Publication Editors.With the success of the column have come a flood of speaking invitations. Brodsky now lectures widely and has become a frequent guest on MSNBC.A graduate of Rider College and Brooklyn Law School, Brodsky began his professional career as a lawyer, but the slow pace of the courtroom led him to search for another vocation.In 1979, he started Perfect Courier, a messenger service based in Manhattan. Within a few years, it was a thriving enterprise with offices around t

About "The Knack: How Street-Smart Entrepeneurs Learn to Handle Whatever Comes Up"People starting out in business tend to seek step-by-step formulas or specific rules for success, but in reality there are no magic bullets. Rather, says veteran company-builder Norm Brodsky, there's a mentality that helps street-smart entrepreneurs solve problems and pursue opportunities as they arise. He calls it "the knack," and it has made all the difference to the eight successful start-ups of his career.Brodsky explores this mind-set every month in Inc. magazine, in the hugely popular column he co-writes with journalist and author Bo Burlingham (best known for his acclaimed book Small Giants). In both their column and now their book, they tell stories about real companies facing real challenges and show readers how to apply "the knack" to their own businesses.About Norm BrodskyNORM BRODSKY had already launched seven successful businesses—including a three-time Inc. 500 company—by the time he began writing the Street Smarts column in Inc. magazine with Bo Burlingham in 1995. The column has proved to be enormously popular with readers of the magazine and was twice a finalist for a National Magazine Award. In 2008, it received a gold Azbee award from the American Society of Business Publication Editors.With the success of the column have come a flood of speaking invitations. Brodsky now lectures widely and has become a frequent guest on MSNBC.A graduate of Rider College and Brooklyn Law School, Brodsky began his professional career as a lawyer, but the slow pace of the courtroom led him to search for another vocation.In 1979, he started Perfect Courier, a messenger service based in Manhattan. Within a few years, it was a thriving enterprise with offices around t

Consumer Advocate Benjamin Dover (VoidMyMortgage.com), Authors David Rubel (The Bedside Baccalaureate) and Norm Brodsky (The Knack: How Street-Smart Entrepreneurs Learn to Handle Whatever Comes Up)