Podcasts about zingerman

Secure your spot now for Vince Gabriele's July 18–19 Mastermind Event in New Jersey: events.vincegabriele.com

Ari Weinzweig is the co-founding partner of Zingerman's, a world renowned community of businesses based in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Zingerman's is known as much for its incredible food as its radical approach to leadership and culture. Ari is a sought-after speaker, author of numerous influential books and pamphlets on visioning, leadership, and business beliefs, and a trailblazer in building organizations where dignity, creativity, and compassion lead the way. Ari joined host Robert Glazer to talk about Zingerman's excellent culture, his unconventional approach to leadership, leading without hierarchy and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Click the link to learn more and get your tickets to see Vince and Ari speak at the SPF Mastermind July 18th and 19th.https://events.vincegabriele.com/july2025 Podcast SummaryIn this rare and insightful interview, Vince Gabriele sits down with Ari Weinzweig, co-founder of Zingerman's Delicatessen in Ann Arbor, Michigan. From its humble beginnings in 1982 with a $20,000 bank loan and a staff of two, Zingerman's has grown into a community of businesses with over 750 employees and annual revenues exceeding $80 million . Ari shares the principles and practices that have guided this growth, emphasizing a commitment to quality, community, and a unique organizational culture. This conversation offers valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and business leaders aiming to build sustainable and values-driven enterprises. 5 Key Points DiscussedVisionary Leadership: Ari discusses the importance of having a clear vision and staying true to core values in guiding business growth.Community Engagement: Insights into how Zingerman's fosters a strong sense of community among employees and customers.Innovative Business Model: Exploration of Zingerman's unique approach to business expansion through a community of businesses rather than traditional franchising.Employee Empowerment: The role of open-book management and employee ownership in creating a motivated and accountable workforce.Resilience and Adaptation: Lessons learned from navigating challenges and adapting to changing market conditions while maintaining the company's mission. Click the link to learn more and get your tickets to see Vince and Ari speak at the SPF Mastermind July 18th and 19th.https://events.vincegabriele.com/july2025 If you're a gym owner seeking answers on how you can grow your gym, make more money, and have more freedom to do what you love, visit www.vincegabriele.com or book a call by CLICKING HERE!

Burnout isn't about working too much—it's about what drains you. Anese Cavanaugh has spent the last two decades helping leaders master their Intentional Energetic Presence (IEP) to create thriving, engaged teams without running themselves into the ground. Her work with Zingerman's and top companies worldwide has proven that energy, not time, is our most valuable resource. In this episode, we dive into the real cause of burnout, how leaders unknowingly drain their own teams, and the small shifts that create massive impact. If you want to lead with more energy, influence, and authenticity, this episode is a game-changer. To learn more about Intentional Energetic Presence (IEP) and how to lead without burnout, visit https://activechoices.com/. ____________________________________________________________Full Comp is brought to you by Yelp for Restaurants: In July 2020, a few hundred employees formed Yelp for Restaurants. Our goal is to build tools that help restaurateurs do more with limited time.We have a lot more content coming your way! Be sure to check out our other content:Yelp for Restaurants PodcastsRestaurant expert videos & webinars

Ready to stay ahead in this shifting, tariff-driven climate? Book your complimentary strategy call today and let's map out a game plan for growth: https://calendly.com/spf-leo/spf-mastermind-discovery-call In this raw and unfiltered episode of Ask Vince, Vince Gabriele fires straight from the hip on how gym owners can (and must) prepare for a shaky economy. With tariffs looming, prices rising, and fear thick in the air, Vince delivers a wake-up call: this isn't the time to coast—this is wartime CEO season.The episode kicks off with a preview of the upcoming July Mastermind event, featuring one of Vince's biggest gets ever—Ari Weinzweig of Zingerman's. From there, Vince dives deep into the power of his Elite Consulting Days, showing how a fresh perspective can expose profit leaks, mindset issues, and operational inefficiencies that are keeping gym owners stuck.The theme? Leadership, discipline, and decisiveness. Vince shows you how to hold the line, protect your business, and come out ahead—because “this too shall pass,” but only if you do the work. Top 5 Key Takeaways:1. Fresh Eyes Save Lives (and Businesses)Vince's Elite Consulting Days give gym owners a full-day deep dive into their business. These sessions uncover things owners are blind to—from bloated payroll to underpriced services—and give them a clear plan of action. Spoiler: you're probably undercharging, overworking, and bleeding cash without knowing it.2. The Economy is Messy—Fear is the Real EnemyTariffs are triggering fear, and fear changes behavior. Clients start cutting non-essentials (like gyms). Vince warns: you don't need to be an economist, but you must understand how economic perception affects your clients' decisions.3. Retention is KingHold onto what you've got. Vince shares how GFP slashed attrition to 1.5% by tracking attendance patterns, improving service, and doing more with less. His advice? Double down on delivering massive value and keep clients delighted, not just satisfied.4. Embrace Wartime LeadershipNow's the time to act like a wartime CEO: raise your standards, get disciplined, audit everything, and trim the fat—especially B-players on your team. Vince's favorite wartime move? Audit your billing and slash waste like your business depends on it—because it does.5. The Mindset Shift is Non-NegotiableWhen uncertainty hits, owners need to rewire their thinking. Vince lays out a wartime mindset playbook: think long-term, take massive ownership, and tighten up every aspect of life—from fitness to finances. As he says, “You gotta do more and better for less… and still win.” Ready to stay ahead in this shifting, tariff-driven climate? Book your complimentary strategy call today and let's map out a game plan for growth: https://calendly.com/spf-leo/spf-mastermind-discovery-call If you're a gym owner seeking answers on how you can grow your gym, make more money, and have more freedom to do what you love, visit www.vincegabriele.com or book a call by CLICKING HERE!

Most restaurants accept drama and dysfunction as part of the business—but what if eliminating them was the key to higher profits and better retention? Lisa Schultz, Managing Partner of Zingerman's Roadhouse, has spent the last 20 years proving that culture is the real secret to success. By implementing no-drama leadership, open-book finance, and employee empowerment, she's built a restaurant where people don't just show up for a paycheck—they show up to be part of something bigger. In this episode, we explore how to build a drama-free workplace, get employees to think like owners, and create a sustainable, profitable restaurant culture. If you've ever struggled with turnover, toxic teams, or disengaged staff, this conversation is for you. To learn more about Zingerman's Roadhouse and their culture-first approach to hospitality, visit https://www.zingermansroadhouse.com. ____________________________________________________________Full Comp is brought to you by Yelp for Restaurants: In July 2020, a few hundred employees formed Yelp for Restaurants. Our goal is to build tools that help restaurateurs do more with limited time.We have a lot more content coming your way! Be sure to check out our other content:Yelp for Restaurants PodcastsRestaurant expert videos & webinars

To get the details for our July Mastermind Meeting with Zingerman's Founder Ari Weinzweig, email Tom@vincegabriele.com. In this episode of The Business Secrets for Gym Owners podcast, Uncle Vinny shares game-changing insights from his longtime mentor and friend, Ari Weinzweig, the founder of Zingerman's Deli. Ari took a small Jewish deli in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and grew it into an $80 million empire spanning multiple businesses — and his lessons are directly applicable to running a successful gym. Vinny dives deep into three of the most valuable business lessons he learned from Ari: the four stages of business growth, the recipe for outstanding customer service, and the power of creating a clear vision for your business. This episode is packed with actionable insights that will help you take your gym to the next level.Key Points Covered:The Four Stages of Business Growth – Vinny outlines the four stages that every business goes through: Creating, Building, Prime, and Scale. He explains the challenges and opportunities at each stage and what it takes to level up.The Recipe for Great Customer Service – Learn Zingerman's simple but powerful three-step system for providing exceptional customer service: Find out what the customer wants, get it for them, and exceed their expectations.How to Write a Powerful Vision – Discover the difference between a mission and a vision, and why creating a clear, compelling vision for your gym's future is crucial for long-term success.The Importance of Leadership and Delegation – Transitioning from working in your business to working on your business requires building a strong team and elevating leaders within your organization.Lessons from a Multi-Million Dollar Business – Vinny explains how the principles that built Zingerman's into an $80 million business can be applied to growing and scaling your gym.To get the details for our July Mastermind Meeting with Zingerman's Founder Ari Weinzweig, email Tom@vincegabriele.com. If you're a gym owner seeking answers on how you can grow your gym, make more money, and have more freedom to do what you love, visit www.vincegabriele.com or book a call by CLICKING HERE!

The first two months of the new Administration in Washington DC have brought shocking degrees of chaos and disruption. Many people who didn't vote for the current President feel like they've been punched in the face and knocked to the ground. How in a situation like this do you get back up? What actions can you take to lift your mood and make things in the world better?This week's guest on How My View Grew, which launches season three of the podcast, is no stranger to this dilemma. Ari Weinzweig, co-founder of the Zingerman's Community of Businesses in Ann Arbor, Michigan, knows something about getting crushed by a global shock and then finding a way to get back up. In his case, the event was Russia's brutal full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. How he got back up was by learning about Ukraine's Revolution of Dignity in 2014 and then using this as inspiration to bring dignity into the workplace. Ari's story offers a lesson about how to respond to disturbing and horrific events. It also raises a startling question: if millions of people felt a sense of dignity in the workplace, would they vote for demagogues claiming "you've been screwed" and promising to "fix it" for them? Or might they instead say, "No thanks. I'm good. If you want to be an autocrat, move to Russia?"**Key takeaways**5:00 When Ari was unconsciously competent at dignity10:00 "Putin isn't going to call me for advice"14:00 Inspiration from Ukraine's Revolution of Dignity25:00 Honoring dignity doesn't take more time27:00 Being authentic without dumping on others32:00 Showing employees the financial numbers36:00 "Maybe it's not because they're lazy." 43:00 Slipping daily and then gamefilming45:30 Amiel's reflections**Resources**A Revolution of Dignity in the Twenty-first Century Workplace, a pamphlet by AriZingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor, MichiganUkrainian civic activist Valerii Pekar on Ukraine's stunning resilience (How My View Grew)Historian Marci Shore on how to improve the world amidst evil (How My View Grew)Depolarize politics by escaping the drama triangle (How My View Grew)**Subscribe to the podcast**To hear the origin stories of more big ideas, subscribe to How My View Grew on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.**Share the love**Leave me a rating or review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Welcome to the Hospitality Mentor Podcast! In this episode, host Steve Turk interviews Ji Hye Kim, the chef-owner of Miss Kim Korean Restaurant in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ji Hye shares her unconventional journey from being an economics and political science student at the University of Michigan to becoming a renowned Korean chef. Starting as a server at a Japanese restaurant, Ji Hye recounts her transition into hospitality, becoming a cheesemonger at Zingerman's Delicatessen, and eventually opening Miss Kim. She discusses the challenges and successes she faced, including her innovative response to the pandemic and her plans for opening a new vegetarian restaurant, Little Kim. Ji Hye also offers invaluable advice on pursuing one's passion in the hospitality industry. Don't miss out on this inspiring and educational episode!00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:03 Ji Hye Kim's Early Career and Education05:07 Transition to Hospitality08:20 Starting at Zingerman's and Developing Skills13:43 Path to Partnership and Food Cart Experience21:54 Opening Miss Kim Restaurant28:49 Navigating Challenges and Achievements32:33 Future Plans and Advice36:15 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

What does it take to turn a dishwashing job into a legacy that reshapes an entire industry? Ari Weinzweig, co-founder of Zingerman's, has spent over four decades building not just a successful business but a model of leadership rooted in purpose, curiosity, and values. In his latest work, Life Lessons I Learned from Being a Line Cook, Ari reflects on the principles that have guided his journey and the powerful lessons we can all take from them. In this episode, we explore how these lessons apply to leadership, emotional resilience, and building organizations that thrive. Whether you're on the line or leading a team, this conversation is packed with insights that will challenge and inspire you. For more on Zingerman's and to explore Ari's latest work, Life Lessons I Learned from Being a Line Cook, visit https://www.zingtrain.com____________________________________________________________Full Comp is brought to you by Yelp for Restaurants: In July 2020, a few hundred employees formed Yelp for Restaurants. Our goal is to build tools that help restaurateurs do more with limited time.We have a lot more content coming your way! Be sure to check out our other content:Yelp for Restaurants PodcastsRestaurant expert videos & webinars

Today's podcast is with Ari Weinzweig, the CEO and co-founding partner of Zingerman's Community of Businesses, a much-admired gourmet food business group headquartered in Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA. Ari is a friend, a veteran of the podcast and was also one of the contributors to Punk XL. Ari joins me today to talk about his latest missive - a chapbook entitled Life Lessons I Learned From Being A Line Cook; what a chapbook is, the insights behind some of the lessons and what they mean from an entrepreneur and leader who is passionate about customer service and experience. This interview follows on from my recent interview – The natural home of the contact center is under the CMO – Interview with Alex Levin of Regal.io – and is number 531 in the series of interviews with authors and business leaders who are doing great things, providing valuable insights, helping businesses innovate and delivering great service and experience to both their customers and their employees.

In this podcast episode, Dr. Jonathan H. Westover talks with Elnian Gilbert about organizational change and vision facilitation. Elnian's 13+ years of experience at Zinger Train includes multiple businesses and positions, from her start at Zingerman's Mail Order to logistical experience at ZingTrain. It is this breadth of experience that Elnian brings to her role as a trainer, sharing Zingerman's approach to business though ZingTrain's public training, personalized training, facilitation, and keynotes. Check out all of the podcasts in the HCI Podcast Network!

Skratch won our award for "Brand Of The Year" in 2024, and the main reason was because we respected their approach to playing the infinite game: making decisions rooted in long term stability. So many brands in their position would angle for acquisition and an exit strategy, but that is not on their radar. The discipline and vision that it takes to stay true to that ethos is evident in this conversation with co-founders Allen Lim and Ian MacGregor. Show Notes: Skratch: https://skratchlabs.com 2024 Year In Review (Blog): https://www.skratchlabs.com/blogs/life-skills/2024-year-in-review Vern Harnish - Scaling Up: https://amzn.to/4jN5VWq McGuckin Hardware: https://www.mcguckin.com/ Zingerman's Guide: https://amzn.to/4azJrnv The Infinite Game: https://amzn.to/42B52dq Christina Chase - MIT Sports Lab: https://sportslab.mit.edu/ Peter Kim - Applied Exercise Science: https://www.colorado.edu/iphy/research Skratch in Paris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyPGaQHvF6c Skratch Cafe: https://www.skratchlabs.com/pages/cafe Chef Biju Thomas: https://www.instagram.com/bijuthechef/ BPC: Brand, Product, Content Ian - Integrating Ski Areas: https://coloradosun.com/2024/11/26/nederland-vying-to-buy-eldora/ Allen - Bosch E-Bikes: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/ebikes Aaron - Gawx x Digital Spaghetti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDAqyQIaUPY Dylan - Aaron Rogers "Enigma": https://www.netflix.com/title/81757010 Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

It is a strange but somehow peaceful time. We are in the 'holiday season', which is 'show season' for me. We are between the election and the inauguration. We decided to read a surprisingly silly Zingerman's SOP and revisit the piece I read for my dear friend's wedding. Jamie updates me on the news from a recent cannabis conference in Vegas. Come see me January 2nd at 50 First Jokes!!

In this episode, fourth-time guest Ari Weinzweig returns to share insights from his latest book on becoming a better leader. The discussion emphasizes the importance of beliefs in business, the craft of hospitality, and the concept of dignity. Ari delves into the six elements of servant leadership, the significance of vision, the necessity of active learning and teaching, ethical decision-making, and the practice of energy management. He also touches on Zingerman's unique ownership culture and offers reflections on humility. Perfect for leaders looking for practical wisdom, the conversation is rich with actionable advice and inspiring ideas.Connect with Ari:Ari Weinzweig: https://www.zingtrain.com/trainer/ari-weinzweig/Zingerman's: https://www.zingermanscommunity.com/Email: ari@zingermans.comAri's Article on Servant Leadership:https://www.zingtrain.com/article/servant-leadership/Previous interview on the show with Ari:https://www.hospitalitymavericks.com/224-ari-weinzweig-co-founder-at-zingermans-the-power-of-beliefs-in-business/https://www.hospitalitymavericks.com/163-ari-weinzweig-ceo-of-zingermans-community-of-businesses-on-visioning-and-the-myth-of-the-one-thing/https://www.hospitalitymavericks.com/114-ari-weinzweig-co-founder-of-zingermans-on-self-leadership/A big thank you to our epsiode sponsor Sideways. Head to their website hospitality.sideways.ai or email them directly at john@sideways.aiConnect with the podcastJoin the Hospitality Mavericks newsletterTune in via your favourite podcast platform - here More episodes for you to check out here This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

In 1982, Ari Weinzweig, along with his partner Paul Saginaw, founded Zingerman's Delicatessen in Ann Arbor with a $20,000 bank loan, a Russian History degree from the University of Michigan, four years of experience washing dishes, cooking and managing in restaurant kitchens and chutzpah from his hometown of Chicago. They opened the doors with 2 employees, a small selection of specialty foods, and exceptional sandwiches.rnrnToday, Zingerman's Delicatessen is a nationally renowned food icon and the Zingerman's Community of Businesses has grown to 11 businesses with over 750 employees and over $65 million in annual revenue. Ari Weinzweig is also a prolific writer. His most recent publications are the first four of his six book series Zingerman's Guide to Good Leading.rnrnThe conversation will be moderated by New York Times bestselling author Daniel Coyle. Coyle's book The Culture Code was named Best Business Book of the Year by Bloomberg, BookPal, and Business Insider. Coyle has served as an advisor to many high-performing organizations, including the Navy SEALs, Microsoft, Google, and the Cleveland Guardians.

In this episode of the Daily Mastermind, host George Wright III interviews Wayne Mullins, the CEO and founder of Ugly Mug Marketing. They discuss Wayne's journey from a struggling salesperson to starting his own lawn and landscape business, eventually leading to the creation of a highly successful marketing agency. Key topics include the importance of incremental growth, the natural progression in marketing, and turning customers into brand evangelists. Wayne emphasizes the need for a strategic approach over merely tactical actions, leveraging human psychology, building trust, and the powerful role of customer referrals in enhancing marketing efforts. The episode concludes with advice for business owners to evaluate their strategies and continually exceed customer expectations. 01:00 Wayne Mullins' Background and Journey04:28 The Importance of Incremental Growth06:33 Understanding Marketing and Sales11:22 Building Trust in Marketing16:14 Turning Customers into Evangelists22:45 Strategic Marketing Advice Thanks for listening, and Please Share this Episode with someone. It would really help us to grow our show and share these valuable tips and strategies with others. Have a great day. George Wright III“It's Never Too Late to Start Living the Life You Were Meant to Live”FREE Daily Mastermind Resources:CONNECT with George & Access Tons of ResourcesGet access to Proven Strategies and Time-Test Principles for Success. Plus, download and access tons of FREE resources and online events by joining our Exclusive Community of Entrepreneurs, Business Owners, and High Achievers like YOU.Join FREE at www.JoinTheEvolution.comAbout GUEST:Wayne Mullins is a passionate entrepreneur committed to creating remarkable experiences, and building a team at Ugly Mug Marketing that produces extraordinary results for their clients.He has been called “the guru's guru,” as he is regularly called upon for advice from industry leading CEO's, New York Times Best Selling Authors, and Silicon Valley startups. He loves helping entrepreneurs challenge their assumptions, create value from places they've never looked, and reach goals they never believed possible. He has personally worked with clients in 91 different industries, from 34 states, and 11 countries.Ugly Mug Marketing, which Wayne founded 10 years ago, has won the praises of some of the leading influencers in the business world, such as, Neil Patel (Founder of QuickSprout & Kissmetrics), Chris Voss (New York Times Best Selling Author of Never Split the Difference), and Ari Weinzweig (Co-Founder of Zingerman's Community of Businesses). Wayne's work directly influences more than a quarter million entrepreneurs annually through his blog, books, and training programs.Guest Resources:Website: UglyMugMarketing.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireyourself/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fireyourself/ About George Wright III:George Wright is a Proven, Successful Entrepreneur- and he knows how to inspire entrepreneurs, companies, and individuals to achieve Massive Results. With more than 20 years of Executive Management experience and 25 years of Direct Marketing and Sales experience, George is responsible for starting and building several successful multimillion-dollar companies. He started at a very young age to network and build his experience and knowledge of what it takes to become a driven and well-known entrepreneur. George built a multi-million-dollar seminar business, promoting some of the biggest stars and brands in the world. He has accelerated the success and cash flow in each of his ventures through his network of resources and results driven strategies. George is now dedicated to teaching and sharing his Prosperity Principles and Strategies to every Driven and Passionate Entrepreneur he meets. His mission is to Empower Entrepreneurs Globally to create Massive Change and LIVE their Ultimate Destiny.

Every year we await the release of The Best American Food Writing. It's a sharp collection of works from around the world of food media, and it always brings surprises. This year was no different, and the collection's new editor, Jaya Saxena, tells us about her selection process. We also dig into her own journalism career. She's one of our favorite writers at Eater, and we talk about some memorable stories she's written there as well as for TASTE. Also on the show, it's the return of Three Things where Clayton and Matt discuss what is exciting in the world of restaurants, cookbooks, and the food world as a whole. On this episode: the B.O. Boys, Saturday Night is actually good, the Seoul Meets Bagel at Between the Bagel, Bruce Eric Kaplan's look inside Hollywood screenwriting in They Went Another Way. Two more books: Mammoth by Eva Baltasar and William by Mason Coile. Also, a reminder that Zingerman's has the best holiday gifts, Little Flower Cafe in Astoria is a lovely place, Daniela Galarza's broccolini parmesan soup rules, and Mombard has invented quite the sandwich. Do you enjoy This Is TASTE? Drop us a review on Apple, or star us on Spotify. We'd love to hear from you. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Be Good Humans studio turns into Mission Control as Brian and Trey share their inner love for outer space and welcome celebrated NASA astronaut Colonel James “Vegas” Kelly along with an actual rocket scientist, Julie Zingerman!Ret. Col. James M. Kelly was selected as a NASA astronaut in 1996. The retired U.S. Air Force Colonel flew on STS-102 in 2001 and STS-114 in 2005. STS-102 delivered the Expedition 2 crew and contents of the Leonardo Multi-Purpose Logistics Module (MPLM) to the station. STS-114 was the Return-to-Flight mission following the space shuttle Columbia disaster. During that mission, the crew tested and evaluated new procedures for flight safety, shuttle inspection and repair techniques. Col. Kelly has logged more than 641 hours in space. He currently serves as Capsule Communications (CAPCOM) Branch Chief for the Astronaut Office. Julie Zingerman works Advanced Space and Power at L3Harris Aerojet Rocketdyne. In this role she designed, developed and tested the electric power system for the International Space Station which has provided continuous power for over 25 years to the US Astronauts and their International Partners. She served on the Double Asteroid Redirect Test team which successfully pushed an asteroid into a different trajectory, a critical element for saving our  planet. Today she is working to help build the next generation of human space rockets following the retirement of the space shuttle, including the Space Launch System for the upcoming Artemis moon missions. Julie was awarded a NASA Silver Snoopy, the highest award the agency presents to less than 1% of its workforce. She supports the Entertainment Industries Council Technical Advisory Committee and currently serves on the kidSTREAM Children's Museum Advisory Board.Brian Phelps is an American radio personality, actor, and comedian best known for co-hosting the nationally and globally syndicated Mark & Brian Morning Show in Los Angeles for 25 years. As the co-lead of his own television series, with multiple roles in movies, and a Star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Phelps is also an inductee in the Radio Hall of Fame.Trey Callaway is an American film and TV writer and producer who wrote the hit movie I Still Know What You Did Last Summer, and has produced successful TV series like CSI:NY, Supernatural, Rush Hour, Revolution,  The Messengers, APB,  Station 19 and 9-1-1 LONE STAR. He is also a Professor at USC.___________________________________Make sure to follow us on social media at:begoodhumanspodcast.cominstagram.comtiktok.comthreads.netfacebook.comx.com

‘Having a vocation is like falling in love, and it works out,' says writer, anarchist, and philosopher, Paul Goodman. Ari Weinzweig holds the title of co-founder and CEO at Zingerman's, but he is also an anarchist and philosopher. During this episode, he joins us in conversation to tell his story and share the guiding principles behind his life philosophy and business journey. Tune in to hear him challenge perceptions about anarchism and synergy, positive belief in human beings, and what it means not to think hierarchically about your achievements. Making the distinction between data and culture, Ari unpacks his leadership style and why he believes that building culture is the true work of leadership. Going deeper, we discuss the relationship between belief, company health, and the imperfect art of working with people. We touch on the simple legacy Ari would like to leave behind, how he has managed to go off the grid with his business in order to live his values, and how Ari manages to truly be himself so much so that he is a rebel against expectation. Join us today to hear all this and more. Guest Bio: In 1982, Ari Weinzweig and Paul Saginaw founded Zingerman's Delicatessen in Ann Arbor, Michigan, using a $20,000 bank loan. Weinzweig, equipped with a Russian History degree and four years of kitchen experience, opened the deli with two employees and a small range of specialty foods and sandwiches. Today, Zingerman's has evolved into a nationally recognized food brand, expanding into the Zingerman's Community of Businesses, which includes 11 distinct entities such as Zingerman's Bakehouse and ZingTrain, employing over 750 people and generating more than $65 million in annual revenue. Each business operates uniquely, but they all adhere to a shared Vision and Guiding Principles, collectively delivering “The Zingerman's Experience” with passion and commitment. Key Points From This Episode: [02:25] Ari Weinzweig, co-founder and CEO of Zingerman's and his journey to success.[12:29] How his choice of major, Russian history, illustrates an important principle.[13:54] The story of Zingerman's as told by the 12 Natural Laws of Business.[20:05] Moving forward and prioritizing growth whilst staying true to their original vision.[23:13] How he has trained himself not to think hierarchically about his success.[26:30] The evolution of his leadership style and relationship to anarchism and synergy.[31:37] A description of the legacy he would like to leave behind.[38:26] Why he believes that building culture is the true work of leadership.[44:56] What motivated Ari to go off the grid with his business endeavors and book publishing.[49:31] An overview of this episode and how Ari lives his business values. Quotes: “Do what you want, not what everybody else wants you to do.” — Ari Weinzweig [0:12:51] “I've tried to train myself to appreciate the little things because that's really all there is.” — Ari Weinzweig [0:23:24] “[Anarchism] is really about a way of being in the world, not about taking power.” — Ari Weinzweig [0:29:33] “The thing about dignity is, it's all free, and we don't need permission, and we don't need anyone else to do it, we can just do it.” — Ari Weinzweig [0:31:20] “All day long, we're all contributing positively and negatively to the culture and none of us get it right all the time.” — Ari Weinzweig [0:38:59]RESOURCES: [04:46] Read poetry by David Whyte.[06:26] Learn more about anarchist and philosopher Paul Goodman.[14:15] Unpack Zingerman's 12 Natural Laws of Business.[21:12] Find out about the work of Ruth Benedict. [26:59] Explore Stephen Covey, Peter Drucker, Max De Pree, Robert Greenleaf, and Margaret Wheatley. [26:59] Read Ari's essay, Jewish Rye Bread. [29:41] Immerse yourself in the work of Howard Ehrlich.[46:22] Unveil Ari's thoughts on Dignity and Working Through Hard Times.   FOLLOW:Follow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagram Follow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagram Follow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTM ABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast.Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.com ABOUT THE HOSTS:Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization.Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early-stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow. Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's in-house culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers.

Originally uploaded August 12, re-edited October 16th. Chris Holman welcomes back Julie Pingston, CDME, CMP, CTA / President & CEO Choose Lansing, Lansing, MI Welcome back Julie, I understand you're part of a new project? Tell us more about the New Initiative Encouraging Sports Fans to Explore ‘Cities of the Big Ten'? There's a digital passport developed with Bandwagon? Julie, for this project what are the Highlighted Attractions are included around Lansing? What else should businesses of the area know about this new initiative? New Initiative Encourages Sports Fans to Explore ‘Cities of the Big Ten' Choose Lansing shared a release on this topic: LANSING, MICH. – July, 2024 – Choose LansingTM and Destination Ann Arbor are excited to announce their participation in the new Cities of the Big Ten passport initiative, a collaborative effort designed to encourage visitors to explore beyond athletic events and discover the unique attractions of the Big Ten cities. This joint effort, facilitated through a digital passport developed with Bandwango, aims to showcase unique attractions in each Big Ten destination and promote a richer travel experience. “Being a part of the Big Ten conference strengthens the bond between our communities,” said Amy Karbo, Vice President of Marketing of Destination Ann Arbor, home to the University of Michigan and the 2023 College Football National Champions. “This initiative provides a wonderful opportunity to highlight and share the unique attractions of each of our destinations, encouraging visitors to explore all that we have to offer. Ann Arbor is known for its vibrant culture, lively arts scene and iconic landmarks. We are thrilled to be part of this initiative that not only brings sports fans to our city but also encourages them to explore everything else Ann Arbor has to offer.” Tracy Padot, Chief Marketing Officer of Choose Lansing, agrees. “As home to the State Capitol and Michigan State University, there's so much more to see beyond Spartan Stadium when visitors come for a football game. Whether it's one of our attractions, museums, great dining, or outstanding accommodations, we are a welcoming destination for all.” The passport features a curated list and dynamic mix of places to visit and explore, aiming to help sports fans traveling to support their team, or anyone interested in new travel adventures, get better acquainted with the cities of the Big Ten. Highlighted Attractions in Lansing include: State Capitol Building/Heritage Hall Michigan History Center and Archives of Michigan Impression 5 Science Center R.E. Olds Transportation Museum High Caliber Karting Zap Zone XL Eli & Edythe Broad Art Museum MSU Horticulture Gardens Abrams Planetarium MSU Dairy Store Highlighted Attractions in Ann Arbor include: Zingerman's Deli Big House Tour Law Quad on Campus Main Street Michigan Theater & State Theater The Nichols Arboretum Kerrytown Ann Arbor Distillery Winewood Organics Farmer's Market To access the Cities of the Big Ten passport, visit https://www.citiesofthebigten.com. For more information, visit the dedicated landing pages at Destination Ann Arbor and Choose Lansing. ### About Choose LansingTM The vision of Choose Lansing is to inspire everyone to celebrate and love Greater Lansing as much as we do! This goes hand in hand with our mission, to positively impact our community's quality of life by developing the region as a visitor destination. Learn more at www.lansing.org. About Destination Ann Arbor Destination Ann Arbor is a 501(c)6 not-for-profit organization whose mission is to elevate economic vitality and connect our communities through the power of travel.

Marybeth Alexander has been the Knowledge Goddess and Chief Executive Owl at KnowledgeOwl since she co-founded the company with Pete in 2015. As KnowledgeOwl's CEO, she's responsible for embodying KnowledgeOwl's mission and values, which include using business as a force for good, cultivating a people-first company, giving excellent service to everyone, and creating awesome knowledge based software.   Questions  · We always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journey. So, if you could share with our listeners just a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today. · Could you share with our audience what exactly is KnowledgeOwl, and what do you do on a daily basis? · What are some of the successes that you've experienced as a CEO of an organization of this nature, and if you were to predict where you see customers experience going in another 3 to 5 years, based on where the technology is currently, what are some of your predictions where that's concerned? · Now, Marybeth, can you share with our listeners, what's the one online resource, tool, website or application that you absolutely can't live without in your business? · Can you also share with our listeners, maybe one or two books that you've read, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently that had a great impact on you, and it could be an impact that affected you personally or professionally. · Now, can you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. · Where can listeners find you online? · Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share with us a quote. So, do you have a quote that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those?   Highlights Marybeth's Journey Me: Now, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journey. So, if you could share with our listeners just a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today.   Marybeth shared that she'll try to do the short version of this. So, she just loves helping people. All of her jobs are her favorite, her favorite jobs have always revolved around people. She loved being a camp counselor, she was a teacher. She also really loved working in hospitality. She loved working at restaurants and bartending and serving folks. And then she transitioned into software support, and she loved helping people there too.  So, she got into software. She was a teacher for a while, and then she transitioned into software, which was actually a pretty good transition, because a lot of the same skills that make you a good teacher for kids also makes you good at doing software support for adults.  So, she grew her leadership in that realm, and she went from being on the support team to being a team lead, to a manager, to a director, and then she got this little opportunity to head up a product, which was a knowledge based product, it was called Help Gizmo at the time.  And she took that opportunity. I was basically like the product owner or manager of that product, and they brought it to market, and then that company didn't want to continue that project, so they ended up giving them the opportunity to buy it, and that is how she accidentally ended up as the CEO of a software company.  She likes to call herself an accidental entrepreneur, because she didn't start out that way, but as luck would have it, she got the opportunity, and now it's been almost 10 years.   What is KnowledgeOwl? Me: Now, Marybeth, could you share with our audience what exactly is KnowledgeOwl, and what do you do on a daily basis?   Marybeth shared that KnowledgeOwl, they call it knowledge based software, but it was essentially, what knowledge based software is, is a specific type of software that allows you to create a website to share information with whoever your audience is, that is often times your customers.  So, a lot of people use them for their help center and documentation for their software products, but they also sometimes use it for their products for their customers, they have airlines who use them for their help and FAQs, for their customers on their website.  They have customer service teams that use them as a knowledge base for their call center agents. They have lots of companies that use them as their internal knowledge base for all of their playbooks and policies and procedures. So, pretty much what they do every day is help people with these knowledge based websites that help them help their customers, whoever they might be.   Me: I think knowledge base is an extremely good thing for customers, because I do find if a customer has an issue, they tend to do their own troubleshooting first before they actually pick up the phone and call a company or even reach out to a representative at a company. So, if you have a strong knowledge base, you're actually empowering the customer to fix the problem themselves.    Marybeth agreed totally yes, most people do not want to contact your support team, there are a small percentages of people that do, but most people want to be able to self-serve. And when we're talking about giving your customers a great experience and giving them great customer service, a big part of that is allowing them to get help the way they want to get help, and most people would prefer to do it themselves.    Me: So, walk me through, let's choose an industry, let's say, for example, an automotive industry. You sell motor vehicles, for example, and you are trying to create a knowledge base for your team members, so this would be internal with let's say product knowledge, or just general information that customers may call and ask about frequently. Is it that they have to document the information and then give it to you, and you feed it into the knowledge based software, or is that something that you provide for them as well, the research and the documentation that is fed into the knowledge based software?   Marybeth shared that they basically provide the software tool for them. So, their customers like, let's say this automotive, this car service company or automotive company, they would purchase KnowledgeOwl and then somebody on their team would be the one that would put all the content in. So, often times this could be a manager of a team, sometimes you have somebody whose job it is to do like documentation or training, but often times it is like the support team itself, like the people doing the work, they will go in there and document the answers to questions, because on many support teams, you know what team leads end up doing, or like the advanced folks on the team that have been there for a while, is they end up being the go to person and having to answer the same questions over and over again for the other teammates.  So, rather than just answering those same questions over and over again, those people will go to the knowledge based software create a document that says, here's information about this automotive vehicle, here's information like a frequent process that we use. And here's how to do this for the customer, and they'll write it down, so that way their teammates can then reference that or look for it in the knowledge base and get the answer without having to ask them.  So, it speeds up the process and the not just internally, but also it helps the customers get answers faster, because the teammates can find the information they need to help the customers faster.    Me: And your knowledge based software facilitates different formats, so, for example, it could be an audio file, it could be a video file, it could be just a document that the customer is reading.   Marybeth stated exactly. So, it's basically a website. She likes to tell people, pretty much anything you can put in a website, you can put it inside KnowledgeOwl.  So, a lot of times it's going to be text. So, a lot of times it's processes, it's procedures, it's information. But in terms of training in like a video format, you could have audio files in there. You could even like host files. So, if you need to have, like a PDF document or a forum that you need to print and give to a customer, you can store those in the knowledge base as well to make it easy for people to find, print, download it and use that information.  So, essentially, a knowledge base can become sort of the single source of truth for your team. So, rather than having to remember where this forum lives, or where that procedure lives, or where the information about like that car lives, it's all in the same place, so that people can search one place and go to one place to find all of the information they need to do their jobs.   Me: And if the organization already has their own website, Mary Beth, is it that knowledge base has some form of feature that integrates into what they have already, so you live on their server that exists? Or do they have to host their website now through your website?   Marybeth shared that it's not their whole website. So, a knowledge base is typically a separate website. So, you might have your website, which is like www.likemyamazingcompany.com and then you might have your knowledge base for your customers, and that might be on help.myamazingcompany.com or support.myamazingcompany.com so it's actually a separate website that people can go to that is either public or it could be behind a login, because sometimes you only want your logged in customers to access it, or especially if it's an internal knowledge base, you probably only want your employees accessing all of your internal company information.  So, it's often times a separate website. But there are ways you can integrate the knowledge base into your main website if you want to. They have an embeddable help widget, some people go a little bit more advanced with that, but generally it's a separate, standalone website that complements the information on your regular website.   Predictions for Customer Experience in the Next 3 to 5 Years Me: Now, since you've been in this operation for about 10 years you mentioned earlier, what are some of the successes that you've experienced as a CEO of an organization of this nature, and if you were to predict where you see customers experience going in another 3 to 5 years, based on where the technology is currently, what are some of your predictions where that's concerned?   Marybeth shared that in terms of successes, her successes are all going to be people based because I think, like you, she was looking at Yanique's website, it's for her, it's all about the people, and giving people a great experience and making sure that not only, like their customers are having a great experience and love working with them and love using their software, but also that the people that work with them, like their staff members are having a great experience working for KnowledgeOwl too and their vendors who are having a great experience working with them as a company.  So, for her, like the biggest success has been building a community of not just customers, but staff members and team members and other vendors and organizations, a really supportive community that cares about each other. But in terms of looking forward in the industry, it's a very interesting time; especially with the word that is on everybody's mind right now is AI. So, everyone is talking about chatbots, right? So, everybody wants to talk about how they can make a ChatGPT for their company and their customers, and they can automate more of your customer service and their customer experience. But for them and who knows what it's going to look like in 3 to 5 years, because the landscape is changing so fast. But what she does strongly feel like is having your company knowledge documented, like having your product, your services, everything in a knowledge base is now more important than ever, because especially with AI, the only way that AI learns is by getting trained.  And one of the best ways to train your AI is to have all of your policies, your procedures, your documentation about your company, your product and your services and your processes written down so that the AI can learn.  So, she thinks what we're going to see over the next 3 to 5 years is even more formal focus on creating and maintaining great documentation, which for many companies, that's always been really important.   So, like most business books you're going to read at the end of the day, the magic secret to like growing your business is to document everything right and to document all your policies and procedures and processes so that you can scale your company, and other people can do what you do.  And that's always sort of been the not very sexy, but honest truth about what great companies look like as they have their policies and procedures and everything well documented. But she thinks what we're going to start to see is that not only are people going to be creating like great documentation for customers and creating great documentation for their teams internally, but they're going to be creating documentation for AI tools as well.   Me: I think that's a very good point that you just brought across the fact that the knowledge base can train the AI, because a lot of times I find that even with chatbots that are attached to organizations, you may start the conversation to resolve an issue, but the bot can answer maybe just the very basic question. And so, a lot of times when I talk to people, they mention that they don't even entertain the bot because they know that they're not going to get the answer they're looking for so they automatically tell the bot they'd like to speak with a live representative, or an agent for the conversation to end with the bot and actually be talking to a live human being in the chat. But maybe that could mitigate the intervention of live agents or representatives if it is that the bot is, as you mentioned, trained fully by the policies that have been documented and simple questions that maybe is embedded in your website, or maybe the customer is not able to quickly identify, the bot can say, “Okay, this is the policy or this is the rate for this,” or whatever the information is as it relates to the organization, again, minimizing the customer having to reach out to someone and speak to them in person or live.   Marybeth agreed and shared that she thinks what's going to be the sort of people of this is we're going to get to a point, probably here in the next 3 to 5 to 10 years, where you might have trouble telling whether you're talking to a real human or a bot. So, think about like the chats on website. So, a lot of bots, you can tell they're a bot because they tell you that they're a bot and it's very simplistic, but the more conversational bots, like, if you've had a chat with ChatGPT, like it's conversational, it can go back and forth with you, you can have an ongoing conversation that builds upon what you were previously talking about.  So, she thinks there is going to be a lot, and it's already starting. There are a lot of AI customer enablement tools, customer service enablement tools that they've been testing, and they've seen other companies using that learn from your knowledge base and your past emails and conversations, what your tone is, how you usually respond, what the correct answer is most likely to be. And there are these tools out there that right now, if they're confident, they can actually reply as an agent would, versus having the agent actually do it. And there's a lot of companies that are very nervous about that with good measure, because we don't want people giving out bad information.  But the agents are suddenly becoming, they're just double checking before the bot sends their answer, but the bots actually writing everything and creating the response and then having that engagement. So, she thinks we might get to a point where sometimes it might be hard to tell whether it's a real person or not.   App, Website or Tool that Marybeth Absolutely Can't Live Without in Her Business When asked about an online resource that she can't live without in her business, Marybeth mentioned if it's cheating to say KnowledgeOwl?  KnowledgeOwl is interesting because that is where they document not just everything about their products. They have their customer facing knowledge base, which they use to understand how their product works and their customers do as well. But they have all of their internal company documentation in KnowledgeOwl as well. But as a team, they're a remote team, so they're 100% remote, they're distribute everywhere.  So, their team relies a lot on Slack to connect with each other and have like an online space where they all can all exist and not just talk about work but talk about life and interact with everybody. And it's that necessarily that Slack is that important, because if Slack wasn't there, they'd probably be using Microsoft Teams or some other tool to do that collaboration. But having collaborative, like a space for your team to collaborate together and help each other out and just sort of be together and care for each other as humans is really important, especially we move into an age where there's like less in person interactions and support teams and customer services teams are often going to be distributed. She thinks having that space is really important.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Marybeth When asked about books that have had a great impact, Marybeth shared that she's actually going to give you three. So, yes, she's got three for you. So, number one, it was Zingerman's Guide to Giving Great Service, and she probably first read this about 15 years ago, someone gave it to her, and she said, “What does this have to do? I'm running a software company support team. This is a food service book.” And she read it, and it was the first time that she actually saw someone be able to define the steps to actually giving great service and the steps to actually handle a complaint. And it might have seemed really simple at first, but she has been using the same framework for about 15 years now, and it really works. So, it was the first time she was able to take something that was very conceptional, like great service, and actually give someone a process to follow. So that's number one, is Zingerman's Guide to Great Service.   A compliment to that is Zingerman's Guide to Good Leading, it's a series of books. There's one on building a great business, there's one on being a better leader, there's one on managing ourselves, and another one's about the power of beliefs in business. And these books and series of books have really influenced her whole philosophy about the type of company she wants to build, about the types of teams she wants to build and how she wants to treat people. So, those have been really important to me.  And then her third one, which is more for the business owners or the team leaders on here, but it is Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell, it came out last year or the year before, but it has been life changing for her, and sort of organizing her life and figuring out how to grow herself as a leader.    What Marybeth is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that she's excited about, Marybeth shared that she thought about this one a little bit, and this might sound a little bit wild, so she's like a customer service person at heart. Like, support is her jam, she loves customer service, but what she's really excited about right now is sales and marketing. The reason she's very excited about sales and marketing is because she's done a complete 180. When she first started KnowledgeOwl, she thought sales and marketing were bad words, she thought they were icky. They did not have anybody doing sales and marketing, a dedicated team, and they grew their company to this point without really focusing on sales and marketing, because they thought it was something sort of gross, like, she's a support person, she likes helping people, and she sort of see sales and marketing, or she used think about sales and marketing as sort of this other thing that businesses had to do, but it was sort of gross.   And what she's realized recently is that sales and marketing can be done good, or it can be done poorly like many things, it's just a tool, and if we think about it through the lens of customer experience and customer service, and how do we add more value for our customers, and how do we give them a better experience in the world?   And how do we do more good, then sales and marketing become a really interesting skill to learn and problem to figure out, because she thinks they can do it in a way that is true to their values. And it's very people centered and is very helpful and is very centered in service. And it's a totally new area for her. So, she's getting to learn, she's getting to apply all of her learnings and feelings about customer service and experiences to the realms of sales and marketing, and she's really excited to figure it all out with her team.   Where can listeners find Marybeth online? LinkedIn - Marybeth Alexander LinkedIn – KnowledgeOwl Website – www.knowledgeowl.com Email – marybeth@knowledgeowl.com   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Marybeth Uses When asked about a quote that she tends to revert to, Marybeth shared that she has many of those. She loves a good mantra. And she thinks her favorite one that she keeps returning to, and she writes it down a lot is….Enjoy yourself. And to her, it's a quote from a song that she really likes. But in times of adversity, when things seem to her not going well, when she feels like she's unmoored or a little bit lost, remembering that life is short and that it's shorter than we think, and to remember to enjoy ourselves, and it brings her back to her why. It brings her back to her purpose, and it really helps her to refocus things. So, it brings her back to that positive frame of mind. So, enjoy yourself.   Me: So, Marybeth, just want to extend our gratitude to you for taking time out of your very busy schedule and jumping on our podcast with us today. Conversation was amazing, just learning about Knowledge Owl, and just learning about the impact of a knowledge base and the future of customer experience as it relates to integrating the knowledge base into our different platforms and allowing the customer to be able to self-serve and resolve their issues that much quicker and get information at the tip of their fingers. So, I think it was really insightful, I hope that my listeners gained as much insight from it as I did. I thought it was wonderful, and I just want to thank you so much for sharing with us today.   Please connect with us on X @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •    Zingerman's Guide to Giving Great Service by Ari Weinzweig •    Zingerman's Guide to Good Leading, Part 1: A Lasped Anarchist's Approach to Building a Business by Ari Weinzweig •    Buy Back Your Time: Get Unstruck, Reclaim Your Freedom, and Build Your Empire by Dan Martell   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

West Michigan chef Abra Berens is publishing a series of cookbooks drilling down on seasonal best. A former farmer  and veteran of Zingerman's Deli kitchen and the cafe at Chicago's celebrated Local Foods grocery…she's got chops fancy enough for the company, as well as crowd pleasers that will work on a weeknight.  GUEST: Abra Berens, author of multiple cookbooks, including "Pulp"See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How lucky am I that one of my restaurant heroes is actually my friend. Ari Weinzweig built the $80 million dollar Zingerman's restaurant empire but what's most interesting is how he built it. In an industry known for being cutthroat and cynical, Ari has chosen to lead with empathy and dignity. Today we sit down together to discuss the role that dignity plays in the modern restaurant environment and how we can improve our businesses by holding ourselves to a higher standard.  For more information on Ari, to download the pamphlet, or to sign up for his mailing list, visit https://www.zingtrain.com/. ____________________________________________________ Full Comp is brought to you by Yelp for Restaurants: In July 2020, a few hundred employees formed Yelp for Restaurants. Our goal is to build tools that help restaurateurs do more with limited time. We have a lot more content coming your way! Be sure to check out our other content: Yelp for Restaurants Podcasts Restaurant expert videos & webinars

Ari Weinzweig is a Co-Founding Partner at Zingerman's Community of Business. Zingerman's Deli was the first business opened by Ari and his business partner, back in 1982. Today there are 9 locations under various concepts today, as well as wholesale online and in-store. Ari is also the author of 4 books, covering building a great business, leadership, managing ourselves, and the power of beliefs in business. He recently released a new pamphlet all about Dignity. Today, we will be discussing his thesis and thoughts on Dignity. This is Ari's 3rd time on the show!  Today's sponsors: Restaurant Technologies the company that helps restaurants, “Control the kitchen chaos.” With RT's total oil management, you get: Dependable fresh bulk cooking oil delivery; Filtration + oil usage monitoring and reporting; Used cooking oil pick-up, and recycling; And say goodbye to messy, dangerous restaurant rendering tanks-yuck. RT's end-to-end cooking oils solution helps you manage your used cooking oil storage, collection, and recycling- conveniently, safely, and cleanly- with no upfront costs. Head to www.RTI-inc.com, and let them know the Restaurant Unstoppable Podcast sent you their way. MarginEdge: Boost your efficiency and profitability without adding labor costs. MarginEdge is a complete restaurant management software that allows you to seamlessly manage all aspects of your business from one central location. Track food costs in real time, make inventory faster and less tedious, easily cost out your recipes, and get a daily P&L so you always know where you stand. See how it works at marginedge.com/unstopabble. Restaurant Systems Pro - Join the 60-day Restaurant Systems Pro FREE TRAINING. This is something that has never been done before. This 60-day event is at no cost to you, but it is not for everyone. Fred Langley, CEO of Restaurant Systems Pro, will lead a group of restaurateurs through the Restaurant Systems Pro software and set up the systems for your restaurant. During the 60 days, Fred will walk you through the Restaurant Systems Pro Process and help you crush the following goals: Recipe Costing Cards; Guidance in your books for accounting; Cash controls; Sales Forecasting(With Accuracy); Checklists; Budgeting for the entire year; Scheduling for profit; More butts in seats and more… Click Here to learn more. National Council for Mental Health and Wellbeing -  Create healthier, more engaged employees with Mental Health First Aid at Work for Restaurants. This training teaches employees how to recognize and respond to signs and symptoms of mental health or substance use challenges. It's trusted by leading companies, offers flexible training options to adapt to the often- unpredictable restaurant and food services environments, and it's developed and delivered by experts. Visit MentalHealthFirstAid.org/Restaurants to learn more OR use this link: CLICK HERE Contact the guest: Website: https://www.zingermans.com Get the books HERE! Email: ari@zingermans.com Thanks for listening! Rate the podcast, subscribe, and share!  We are on Youtube: @RestaurantUnstoppable

Lisa Schultz is a Partner at Zingerman's Roadhouse in Ann Arbor, MI. Lisa started working in restaurants throughout high school and returned to them after college. She worked as a server in a high end seafood restaurant in Ann Arbor before landing a job as a server at Zingerman's Roadhouse in 2004 in her mid-20s. After five years there she became a manager in 2009 and is now a Partner. Zingerman's started in 1982 as a deli and now consists of 9 brick and mortar locations across various concepts. Lisa's recommended tools/services from today's episode: Meez: Culinary solutions - For chefs, by chefs. Today's sponsors: Restaurant Technologies the company that helps restaurants, “Control the kitchen chaos.” With RT's total oil management, you get: Dependable fresh bulk cooking oil delivery; Filtration + oil usage monitoring and reporting; Used cooking oil pick-up, and recycling; And say goodbye to messy, dangerous restaurant rendering tanks-yuck. RT's end-to-end cooking oils solution helps you manage your used cooking oil storage, collection, and recycling- conveniently, safely, and cleanly- with no upfront costs. Head to www.RTI-inc.com, and let them know the Restaurant Unstoppable Podcast sent you their way. DashTrack: Dashtrack is an award-winning restaurant websites with unmatched 24/7 support. Effortless updates, AI-powered SEO, and commission-free ordering. Schedule your free site consultation today! MarginEdge: Boost your efficiency and profitability without adding labor costs. MarginEdge is a complete restaurant management software that allows you to seamlessly manage all aspects of your business from one central location. Track food costs in real time, make inventory faster and less tedious, easily cost out your recipes, and get a daily P&L so you always know where you stand. See how it works at marginedge.com/unstopabble. Restaurant Systems Pro - Join the 60-day Restaurant Systems Pro FREE TRAINING. This is something that has never been done before. This 60-day event is at no cost to you, but it is not for everyone. Fred Langley, CEO of Restaurant Systems Pro, will lead a group of restaurateurs through the Restaurant Systems Pro software and set up the systems for your restaurant. During the 60 days, Fred will walk you through the Restaurant Systems Pro Process and help you crush the following goals: Recipe Costing Cards; Guidance in your books for accounting; Cash controls; Sales Forecasting(With Accuracy); Checklists; Budgeting for the entire year; Scheduling for profit; More butts in seats and more… Click Here to learn more. Contact the guest: On the web: https://www.zingermansroadhouse.com Thanks for listening! Rate the podcast, subscribe, and share!  We are on Youtube: @RestaurantUnstoppable

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, talk about the post-summer flurry of restaurant activity in New York City. Bret was treated to a pre-opening preview of Alessa, a new Italian restaurant where the chef created a menu spotlighting mushrooms in many sizes and shapes. His first bite was a white pizza topped with assorted mushrooms and lots of garlic, then he moved on to crab-stuffed cremini mushrooms and risotto with hen-of-the-woods and truffle butter. Mushrooms and fall are a perfect pairing, although the pistachio gelato for dessert was devoid of mushrooms. Bret also got to try a new Korean restaurant from Hand Hospitality called Odre, where the food is cooked in cast-iron pots. It's kind of a rustic style for what he thought was a refined tasting menu, but he thoroughly enjoyed all the different courses. That night, he sampled asparagus with cured shrimp in a pine nut sauce with grapefruit, squash pancakes, little pork dumplings with shiso leaf, and braised beef shank with shishito pepper and yes—mushrooms. The tasting menu is a reasonable $42 for dinner. Also on Bret's restaurant itinerary was the revamped Central Park Boathouse, a venue in the middle of NYC's Central Park that has long been known as a special occasion place. It was recently taken over by Legends Hospitality—the same company that does the food at Yankee Stadium—and there's a new chef-driven menu that makes it a great destination for lunch and dinner. David Pasternak, a chef known for his former seafood-focused restaurant Esca, is a consultant, so Bret tried some of the fish dishes, including a salmon crudo and swordfish. Pat was on vacation and was dining around in the South of France instead of New York City, but she did get a chance to interview Brad Hedeman and Mo Frechette of Zingerman's, the destination deli in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Brad and Mo both worked behind the counter and in the retail section of the famous deli, but now head up Zingerman's thriving mail-order business. They talk about how they travel the world to meet farmers and producers and procure the specialty foods that have built Zingerman's reputation. Service and hospitality are built into Zingerman's DNA, and Brad and Mo share how they extend that to online customers that they never interact with face-to-face. People in any part of the restaurant industry can learn a lot from their many years of combined experience and fascinating stories. Give a listen.

Another great, broad-ranging conversation with Kristie Brablec of Zingerman's Food Tours and Ground Control Wines, Dan Reinisch of Lutine wine shop (soon to open in the Somerset mall in Troy, MI), and Elisa Weber, founder of wholesale wine company Little Guy Wine. Join us!

What if your business could be owned by its own purpose? In today's episode, our guests discuss the emerging trend of business owners transferring ownership of their business to a purpose trust.  Many business owners have begun to explore this alternative ownership structure as a means of preserving the values of their business, and ensuring that their business is not sold, long after the business owner is no longer around. Natalie Reitman-White is the principal at Purpose Owned, a consultancy for ownership succession planning.  In 2018, Natalie pioneered one of the first purpose trust ownership transitions in the U.S. with Organically Grown Company. Ari Weinzweig is co-founder of Zingerman's Community of Businesses, which consists of various food-related companies including Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor, Michigan.  In 2022, with the help of Natalie, Ari and his business partner transitioned ownership of the Zingerman's brand to a purpose trust. In the episode we will learn:(4:21) – What was the road to Zingerman's like for Ari?(7:08) – How did Natalie find her way to Organically Grown?(10:02) – What interested Natalie and Ari in Perpetual Purpose Trusts?(17:73) – Why was preserving the legacy of Zingerman's important to Ari?(21:32) – How can a business owner generate liquidity when they transfer their business to a Perpetual Purpose Trust?(26:50) – Can Perpetual Purpose Trusts adapt to changing circumstances?(29:24) – Who can sit on a trust committee?(31:49) – What is the process and cost of transferring to a Perpetual Purpose Trust structure like?(34:20) – Where can business owners start if they want to adopt a Perpetual Purpose Trust structure?(36:51) – What is the ‘why' that drives Natalie and Ari?

10 years ago, Jenny had a half-sour pickle from Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor, MI... and it was life-changing. But Jenny lives in North Carolina. She hasn't been back to Michigan, and attempts to recreate the signature half-sour crunch in her own kitchen have been unsuccessful. Chris enlists BA resident fermentation enthusiast Amiel Stanek (with a special appearance by Zingerman's cofounder Ari Weinzweig) to concoct a "recipe" that'll have Jenny enjoying crisp, barely-pickled half-sours all summer long.

The Common Good podcast is a conversation about the significance of place, eliminating economic isolation and structures of belonging.  Brad Wise is the host for this episode. He was a Common Good Collective Fellowship participant and he runs an organization called Wolf House Fables. Today's episode is a live conversation, hosted by Bobby Slattery at Fifty West Brewing Company in Cincinnati, between Ari Weinzweig and Peter Block. They talked about Ari's new pamphlet A Revolution of Dignity in the Twenty-First Century Workplace. Ari is the CEO and co-founding partner of Zingerman's Community of Businesses. Ari's unique leadership approach earned him the distinction as one of “The World's 10 Top CEOs (They Lead in a Totally Unique Way)”, and he has written numerous books, including A Lapsed Anarchist's Approach to Building a Great Business and A Lapsed Anarchist's Approach to the Power of Beliefs in Business.Six Elements of Dignity:Honor the essential humanity of everyone we work with.Be authentic in all our interactions (without acting out).Make sure everyone has a meaningful say.Begin every interaction with positive beliefs.Commit to helping everyone get to greatness.Create an effective application of equity.More information on the self-fulfilling belief cycle can be found here.This episode was produced by Joey Taylor and the music is from Jeff Gorman. You can find more information about the Common Good Collective here. Common Good Podcast is a production of Bespoken Live & Common Change - Eliminating Personal Economic Isolation. 

Which companies provide the BEST customer service? Names like Disney, Zappos and Southwest Airlines immediately come to mind for their ability to deliver exceptional service while running efficient, safe and profitable businesses. But what if we told you that one of the world's greatest service cultures can be found at a deli in Ann Arbor, Michigan?Zingerman's Delicatessen opened its doors in 1982. Now, over 40 years later, the company operates 10 different specialty businesses, all working toward the goal of making the shopping and eating experience more memorable than ever. But Zingerman's is more than a deli or bakery or candy manufactory—it's a community rooted in a culture of service that elevates the customer AND employee experience.So how do you enable your frontline team to run a profitable business while delivering world-class customer service?ITK host JD Dillon finds out from Timo Anderson, Trainer at ZingTrain who shares how training, recognition and measurement come together to foster a service culture that brings customers back while driving business results.Watch the full video of this episode plus past ITKs on the Axonify YouTube Channel.Learn more about Zingerman's culture of service: https://www.zingtrain.com/blog/building-a-culture-of-great-serviceGet more info on ZingTrain: https://www.zingtrain.com/Download Axonify's Employee Engagement Playbook: http://axonify.com/playbookSubscribe for ITK updates and show announcements at axonify.com/itk.Get a copy of JD's book - The Modern Learning Ecosystem - at jdwroteabook.com.For more about why Axonify is the proven employee enablement solution that equips frontlines with the essential tools to learn, connect and get things done, visit https://www.axonify.com.

“I love matzo! I eat matzah year-round as a snack.” —Ashley Albert   “The goal is to do something out of the box that people wouldn't normally do to give matzo a rebrand.” —Jeremy Nelson Passover is a joyous springtime holiday that celebrates freedom and renewal. At the heart of the Passover seder meal and ritual is matzo, an unleavened flatbread that represents the hurried departure of the Israelites from ancient Egypt. Made simply of flour and water, matzo takes center stage during the week-long celebration as a symbol of the oppression the Jews endured.  However, modern chefs and food entrepreneurs are putting a fresh spin on matzo, rebranding it as a versatile ingredient for light and healthful spring recipes. Companies like The Matzo Project are keeping matzo traditions alive while introducing new ways for people to celebrate Passover with healthful, innovative recipes.   The Matzo Project Founder, Ashley Alberts returns to the Essential Ingredients Kitchen along with Floura's Chief Product Officer, Jeremy Nelson to share new recipes and partnerships that are continuing to push the boundaries of what's possible with Matzo.   Tune in as Justine, Ashley, and Jeremy share the beginnings of The Matzo Project, Jeremy's journey as a plant-based chef, a recipe for Mexican Matzo Ball soup from Chef Fany Gerson, exciting new potential products from Ashley and Jeremy's collaboration, and more.   Meet Ashley:  Ashley Albert is an accomplished American voice actress, singer, and entrepreneur, born in 1973 in Miami Shores, Florida. With a multifaceted career spanning various industries, Ashley has left an indelible mark on each endeavor she undertakes.   However, Ashley's entrepreneurial journey took an unexpected turn when she revisited a long-dormant idea from her past. In collaboration with her old friend Kevin Rodriguez, Ashley resurrected her concept of artisanal matzo, inspired by a childhood encounter with her neighbor's pizza shop. What began as a nostalgic reminiscence evolved into "The Matzo Project," a thriving enterprise that revolutionized the traditional Jewish cracker.   With unwavering determination and a commitment to quality, Ashley and Kevin embarked on a journey to redefine matzo, infusing it with innovation and culinary excellence. Their meticulous attention to detail, coupled with a bold and unconventional approach to branding, propelled The Matzo Project to unprecedented success. From humble beginnings in a small bakery in Coney Island to securing coveted placements in prestigious establishments like Zingerman's and earning recognition from cultural icons like Oprah Winfrey, The Matzo Project has become a testament to Ashley's entrepreneurial vision and Kevin's dedication.   While Kevin oversees the day-to-day operations of The Matzo Project, Ashley remains actively involved, infusing her unique perspective and creative flair into every aspect of the business. As she reflects on the remarkable journey they've embarked upon, Ashley's pride in their accomplishments is palpable, serving as a testament to the power of perseverance, creativity, and the enduring bond of friendship.   Website X Instagram LinkedIn   Connect with Matzo Project: Website Facebook Twitter Instagram Meet Jeremy:  Jeremy Nelson is a Michelin-starred chef from San Francisco and the Chief Product Officer at Floura. He has over 15 years of experience in the culinary industry with a background in plant-based and health-supportive cooking. At Floura, he applies his culinary expertise to develop delicious, nutritious products using upcycled fruits and vegetables. Jeremy is passionate about connecting with others through food and creating options that are good for both humans and the planet. In his role, he oversees product development and ensures Floura's recipes deliver on taste, nutrition, and sustainability.   LinkedIn Connect with NextGen Purpose: Website Facebook Instagram  LinkedIn YouTube Episode Highlights: 00:59 Beginnings: The Matzo Project   04:17 Meet Chef Jeremy 06:12 Matzo and Ricotta Dumpling Recipe 07:45 Mexican Matzo Ball Soup Recipe 08:38 Matzo All Year Round   

Imagine, being in your 20s, fresh out of washing dishes at a local restaurant, borrowing just enough money to open a tiny, local deli with a friend who shared your passion for food, community, and business? Now, imagine that, decades later, that single decision would profoundly change the lives of not just thousands of regular customers, but millions of people, around the world?  What my guest today, Ari Weinzwieg, didn't realize, when starting Zingerman's Deli with a $20,000 loan from the bank, and a degree in Russian History from the University of Michigan, was that he was seeding a revolution. Actually, in hindsight, maybe he did. Now 17 companies later and sitting as the CEO and co-founding partner of Zingerman's Community of Businesses, Ari sees commerce as an engine of impact, expression and service that changes people's lives.  Ari and his ideas have set off a global ripple of compassion, dignity, imagination, and aliveness in the world of business, inviting people to reimagine a profoundly different, radically expansive and inclusive way of defining success.  Named by Inc Magazine as one of “The World's 10 Top CEOs,” he's forging a new way in business that rejects the norm and is grounded in purposeful vision, passion, and anarchy theory. He's written extensively about the values and beliefs that have kept the now iconic Zingerman's Delicatessen, his first business venture, afloat and successful for over 40 years in weekly newsletters and the numerous books he's authored, such as A Lapsed Anarchist's Approach to the Power of Beliefs and A Lapsed Anarchist's Approach to Managing Ourselves.  You can find Ari at: Website | Instagram HOSTED BY: Jonathan Fields Jonathan is a dad, husband, award-winning author, multi-time founder, executive producer and host of the Good Life Project podcast, and co-host of SPARKED, too! He's also the creator of an unusual tool that's helped more than 650,000 people discover what kind of work makes them come alive - the Sparketype® Assessment, and author of the bestselling book, SPARKED. How to submit your question for the SPARKED Braintrust: Wisdom-seeker submissions More on Sparketypes at: Discover Your Sparketype | The Book | The Website Find a Certified Sparketype Advisor: CSA Directory Coaches & Leaders: Tap a Game-Changing Credential - The Certified Sparketype® Advisor Training. This powerful training and certification is designed to help you:⁣ Deliver more outstanding service while helping your clients and/or team members live a more-fulfilling life, and craft a more purpose-led, meaningful, and alive career path. ⁣ Better understand how to powerfully motivate and inspire employees or teams to perform at the highest levels, so that they generate exceptional results and do more of what makes them come alive.⁣ AND… get there much faster with next-gen tools that do what no others can⁣.  Learn more HERE. Next Training starts March 2024 Presented by LinkedIn. Please note this episode originally aired in December 2022 which will be relevant to some references about world news.

"Transitioning with Soul" -- is our first episode and features Ari Weinzweig of Zingerman's, Danny Meyer of USHG Acquisition Corp. Shake Shack and USHG, LLC, and Bo Burlingham of Forbes. Special Guests: Ari Weinzweig, Bo Burlingham, and Danny Meyer.

Does dignity in the workplace really matter? Plenty of companies seem to get by without upholding dignity, but with over 40 years of experience and $60 million in annual sales, today's return podcast guest knows there is a better way.   Ari Weinzweig is the co-founder of Zingermans Delicatessen. Ari, alongside his co-founder, Paul Saginaw, started Zingerman's in 1982 as a restaurant and specialty food retail space. Now the Zingerman's Community of Businesses has 23 partners, employs over 750 people, and generates over $60 million in annual sales from ten separate businesses.   In countries and companies alike where dignity is the norm, progress can happen. Companies that are run by tyrants limit growth and eliminate progress. Dignity has been central to the success of Andy's 42-year business partnership with Paul Sagen. Together they built and expanded a community business that has provided people with a place to connect.   Ari reflects on his vision and approach to successful business scaling. Ten years in, he and his partner realized they had reached a threshold of success without a clear vision of where to go next. A vision is a win-win future and an action plan to make it happen. And integral to the success of the vision is the upheld dignity for everyone involved.   Ari highlights the six elements of dignity that he has challenged himself to work with every day. From honoring humanity to acting authentically without acting out, dignity is at the core of success in the modern workplace.   Interview Links: Ari Weinzweig   Resources: Growth Navigator Coaching Scaling Up Summits (Select Bill Gallagher as your coach during registration for a discount.) Bill on YouTube Recruiter.com Short List (use code scaleup)   Scaling Up is the best-selling book by Verne Harnish and our team for Scaling Up Coaches (formerly Gazelles). We share how the fastest-growing companies succeed where so many others fail.   Bill Gallagher, Scaling Coach and host of the show, is an international business coach who works with C-Suite leaders to achieve breakthrough growth.   We help leadership teams with the biggest decisions around People, Strategy, Execution, and Cash so that they can Scale Up successfully and beat the odds of business growth. Scaling Up is based on Verne's original best-selling business book, Mastering the Rockefeller Habits.   Did you enjoy today's episode? If so, then please leave a review! Help other business leaders discover the Scaling Up Business Podcast so they, too, can benefit from the ideas shared in these podcasts.

SummaryIn this episode of the Dignity Lab, Dr. Jennifer Griggs interviews ari weinsweig, co-founding partner of Zingerman's Community of Businesses. They discuss the concept of dignity and its importance in the workplace and the world. Ari shares his belief that business and life are like art or music, and that paying attention to the beauty and insight in everyday moments can light us up. He also outlines six ways to honor dignity–honoring the essential humanity of others, interacting with authenticity, ensuring that everyone has their voice heard, beginning interactions with positive beliefs, creating conditions so that everyone can achieve greatness as they define it, and creating equity. The conversation explores the idea of revolution as a process of transformation and the importance of commitment and patience in creating lasting change.Ari discusses the importance of modifying accountability in healthcare and helping people feel confident in their work. He also explores commonly held beliefs and threats to dignity, as well as the creation of a culture of dignity. Ari emphasizes the alignment between servant leadership and dignity, and the power of ideas in promoting dignity. He also highlights the recipe for dignity and the impact it can have on individuals and organizations. The conversation concludes with a discussion of the Porch Gathering in Ireland.Guest ContactEmail: ari@zingermans.comEpisode ResourcesZingerman's NewslettersZingTRAINIreland RetreatsZingerman's Community of BusinessesChapters00:00 Introduction04:15 Defining Dignity05:12 Revolution of Dignity08:02 Six Ways to Honor Dignity24:51 Honoring Dignity in Everyday Interactions26:36 Importance of Accountability31:09 Threats to Dignity32:33 Creating a Culture of Dignity36:43 Servant Leadership39:03 Dignity and Servant Leadership Alignment41:40 The Power of Ideas44:30 The Recipe for Dignity45:58 Changing Beliefs and Stories49:48 The Impact of Dignity53:10 The Porch Gathering in IrelandExploring what it means to live and lead with dignity at work, in our families, in our communities, and in the world. What is dignity? How can we honor the dignity of others? And how can we repair and reclaim our dignity after harm? Tune in to hear stories about violations of dignity and ways in which we heal, forgive, and make choices about how we show up in a chaotic and fractured world. Hosted by physician and coach Jennifer Griggs.For more information on the podcast, please visit www.thedignitylab.com.For more information on podcast host Dr. Jennifer Griggs, please visit https://jennifergriggs.com/.For additional free resources, including the periodic table of dignity elements, please visit https://jennifergriggs.com/resources/.The Dignity Lab is an affiliate of Bookshop.org and will receive 10% of the purchase price when you click through and make a purchase. This supports our production and hosting costs. Bookshop.org doesn't earn money off bookstore sales, all profits go to independent bookstores. We encourage our listeners to purchase books through Bookshop.org for this reason.

Welcome to the daily304 – your window into Wonderful, Almost Heaven, West Virginia.   Today is Wednesday, March 6, 2024.  A Charleston distillery teams up with the WV EDA to improve its bottling efficiency. The WV chapter of the National Defense Industrial Association meets this month at the Culture Center. And WV Hive will host a training workshop for New River Gorge businesses…on today's daily304. #1 – From WV EDA – Located in the heart of Charleston's historic West Side, the youthful Bullock Distillery has already become an integral part of the neighborhood. Bullock Distillery makes and bottles all kinds of spirits at their facility like bourbons, whiskeys, brandies, vodkas, gin, and more. In the front of the building, customers can wander around and shop. In the back, you'll find industrial machinery using different ratios of corn, rye, wheat, and malted barley, sourced from West Virginia farmers. But like any business, Bullock Distillery ran into road blocks along the way. One problem was their bottling process was slow and inefficient. A serious bottling machine is a considerable investment, but the business was able to get connected with the West Virginia Economic Development Authority. “It was a bad time for borrowing and that can be hard to finance through traditional means,” said co-foundeTighe Bullock. “The WVEDA was very understanding and responsive and they saw the potential for it to grow our business.” Now, Bullock Distillery is in talks to take on contract bottling from out of state, bringing business into West Virginia. They are significantly more efficient and are planning on increasing their workforce. Watch the video: https://eda.wv.gov/bullock-distillery/   #2 – From WV NDIA – The West Virginia Chapter of National Defense Industrial Association will host its spring meeting March 20 at the Culture Center at the West Virginia State Capitol Complex. WV NDIA will discuss the latest trends and innovations in West Virginia's defense industry. This is a great opportunity to network and exchange ideas. Admission is free. Reserve your spot today! Learn more: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/west-virginia-ndia-spring-2024-meeting-tickets-851500279257?aff=oddtdtcreator   #3 – From WV EXECUTIVE – West Virginia Hive, the entrepreneurship program of the New River Gorge Regional Development Authority, has announced a regional initiative to improve customer service among frontline businesses The program will kick off March 25-26 “Growing Your Business Through a Culture of Service,” a customized and personalized training workshop at Tamarack Conference Center in Beckley. “We want to offer best-of-class training to help the New River Gorge region and Southern West Virginia surpass expectations for visitor experiences, business transactions and overall customer service and hospitality,” says Judy Moore, executive director of WV Hive and deputy director of NRGRDA. “Every dollar people spend in our region and every person who decides to relocate here or return for more visits is an economic multiplier for our community and economic betterment.” The WV Hive has contracted with the Michigan-based business training firm Zingerman's to offer its tested, research-based ZingTrain learning concepts, which will be personalized and customized for the New River Gorge region. The 40-year-old company was called the Coolest Small Company in the Country by Inc. magazine. Interested parties can register here.  Read more: https://wvexecutive.com/west-virginia-hive-launches-regional-culture-of-service-mission/   Find these stories and more at wv.gov/daily304. The daily304 curated news and information is brought to you by the West Virginia Department of Commerce: Sharing the wealth, beauty and opportunity in West Virginia with the world. Follow the daily304 on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @daily304. Or find us online at wv.gov and just click the daily304 logo.  That's all for now. Take care. Be safe. Get outside and enjoy all the opportunity West Virginia has to offer.

Joe has a book “Agile Kata” in the making, if you like to be the first to know when it launches, please visit www.agilekatabook.com.Transcript: ​Agile.FM radio for the agile community. [00:00:05] Joe Krebs: Welcome to another episode of Agile FM in the Agile Kata Series here. Today I have two authors. I have an author on the call and I have a character. I have two characters from a book and a comic illustration, which is called Engaging the Team at Zingerman's Mail Order. That is Betty Gratopp and Jeffrey Liker.Thank you for joining me here today. [00:00:34] Betty Gratopp: Thank you for having me. [00:00:37] Joe Krebs: All right. So this is a book, the it's a comic. And this book was published in 2023. And it's really a book that illustrates the journey from, in, in terms of Kata up at Zingerman's mail order. And before we talk a little bit about the lean journey, What is Zingerman?Zingerman, I have visited Zingerman in Ann Arbor myself. It's a mail order business of a a company that is shipping the most wonderful cheeses and breads. I can smell it in the in the warehouse. And but there's much, much more to it. Betty, what is the size? What's the scope of Zingerman's?What do listeners have to picture? Not familiar necessarily with the service? What do you guys do and how big is the operation? [00:01:20] Betty Gratopp: Oh, excellent. That's a great question. We are a warehouse and a call center. The warehouse employs approximately 55 people year round, and then we grow to a peak of about 400.Warehouse staff people during our Christmas holiday at the service center. I would say is about 20,25 people and they have, they experienced the same growth during that peak season. [00:01:45] Joe Krebs: Yeah, excellent. In the comic, you are a warehouse manager. [00:01:49] Betty Gratopp: Yes, I am one of three warehouse managers that manage the warehouse and have been the three warehouse managers that have taken us through our lean journey and our transformation to trying to be better scientific thinkers.[00:02:05] Joe Krebs: And as a character, you were visualized by the illustrator, Jasmine Morales, who is visualized this entire comic, the book, and she did a really good job knowing you obviously listeners cannot see you right now, but this picture is really nice. So is. Jeffrey as a character also drawn in the in the comic [00:02:24] Jeffrey Liker: and Skinnier and better looking in the comic.[00:02:28] Joe Krebs: And Jeffrey, I do have to mention the other two authors on the book. That's Eduardo Lander and Tom Root, which are not on the podcast today. But we are talking about this book, the three of us. More importantly than the book itself, obviously describes a story that describes a bumpy story of introducing lean and Kata within a Zingermanwhen did your journey start? What was the situation like that led to it? And obviously the origin of the book, that's where everything started, basically. [00:03:03] Betty Gratopp: Yes. I think back to 2003 when our business was growing in double digits. So we were a bunch of. Intended foodies who started this business and then had to get better at process because we weren't doing very well.We were not schooled or learned in anything that had to do with process. That was the environment. So we didn't know how many people to hire. We didn't know how much space we needed. We didn't know how many sales we could take. Really basic things about our business were not clear to us. [00:03:40] Joe Krebs: Sounds like a startup kind of environment.Like everybody who has worked or seen startups, it sounds very typical. Doesn't it? [00:03:47] Betty Gratopp: Oh yeah. Everybody did everything. Yeah. [00:03:51] Joe Krebs: Yeah. And you guys had some form of a warehouse. Is it the same warehouse as it is, or did you guys relocate it over the years? Was there also like growth or. [00:04:00] Betty Gratopp: One of the major motivations to moving to a more, more scientific thinking and lean lean process was the fact that we were moving our operation every two years.So I was hired in 97. I think we moved twice in four years. And then that fifth year or so is about when we started to think about, we had to find a different way. It was too costly. Ten months of the year, our building was way too large for what we needed it to be. Two months of the year, it was way too small for what we wanted it to be.And so we had to make a commitment to stay in the building that we were, and we had to figure out how that was going to happen. At that time. My boss, one of the managing partners here was going to the University of Michigan and met a gentleman who you already mentioned, Eduardo Landers, one of the authors of the book, and they were going to U of M together, and that's how that connection was made.I don't remember actually whether we met Jeff first or Eduardo. [00:04:57] Jeffrey Liker: I don't remember either, but I did get contacted by Tom Root, and he explained that there were Kept on growing out of their quarters and they understood that lean would help you save space and use space more efficiently. And he said, you know, do you think that it might help us in our journey?And at the same time, Eduardo was my doctoral student and he was trying to define a dissertation topic. And his interest was in lean and a high variability business, but he couldn't find any that. I had implemented lean as a case study. So this came along and I said Eduardo Maybe you're not gonna be able to find a case study to study and maybe you're gonna have to create your own and become like a consultant and advisor to Zingerman's mail order.And that's what ended up happening. It was just kind of a coincidence marriage his need and their need. And I was watching the whole thing unfold. And when he first came, and I visited the warehouse and he visited, it was clear to both of us that we talk in the Toyota production system about the seven wastes.And there was seven ways every place you looked, it was just a complete disaster from our point of view. So in other words, it would be a target rich environment for improvement. You could practically, you could probably throw a lean tool any place and. something. But his, he had been, I've been teaching them that in the Toyota Way of leading, which is asking questions and guiding them step by step, taking the whole enchilada, the whole big problem and boiling it down to small pieces.And then starting with a first step and then guiding them and getting them to do the thinking and the work. And that's the approach he took, which turns out to be very consistent with Kata. We didn't know about Kata at the time, but it was very consistent with that approach. , [00:06:54] Joe Krebs: I just want to go back to that quick is I think this is an important comment you just made is the initial approach was more focused on lean rather than Kata because it was quite a while ago, like, when did this all start? [00:07:07] Jeffrey Liker: 2003 so 2003 he walked through and then he started going there like several times every week.And again, what he did was what he could have done is he could have said, here's the Toyota production system. I'm going to lecture you about standard work. I'm going to lecture about Kanban. I'm going to lecture. He didn't do any of that. He just went with them to the floor and say, what's your biggest problem.Let's start there. And then he would ask questions and, you know, example, why do you have to build up a whole, why do you have to build all your gift boxes overnight? So that they're ready when the shift starts. Why can't you build them as the customers are ordering them? And they said things like, because this is a Star Trek and we can't just beam stuff to where we want to instantly.[00:07:57] Betty Gratopp: I think my exact words were, because we're going to fail. [00:08:01] Jeffrey Liker: Yeah, exactly. So they didn't believe, you know, what he was suggesting was possible. So he would say, I understand. Is there something we can try right now? And they would say I guess, you know, and then pretty soon they were generating ideas instead of pushing back and they were trying it.And then they also found their own analogies, like in the book, the original book, lean and high variability of business. We have a case where one of the, one of Betty's colleagues said, I guess it's kind of like subway. Where they make the sandwiches to order, but they have a certain number of sandwiches in a case in a cooled case that you could pull off the shelf and maybe we could develop both kinds of situations.And so that's the way it got started. Again, there was no lectures about except for very brief introductions. There was not. Here's 15 tools. I'll teach you all the tools go apply them. It was here's a problem. Let's test some ideas and let's do it right now. And then what do we learn from this?And then most of the ideas came from the group, like Betty, not from Eduardo. Is that true? Betty. [00:09:16] Betty Gratopp: Yeah, what I remember when he was first teaching us, he was very he didn't give us a whole lot of, he didn't give us a whole set of tools at one time. The first thing we learned was pull, the second thing we learned was kanban, the third thing we learned was timed routes, because now you have kanban, so it's At the time, I had no idea that these skills or tools were layered and connected and making a whole system.Had he come at us with all of that. I mean, even just coming with us with one thing and saying, Hey, we're going to make gift boxes just in time. What do you guys think? That was enough to make our brains explode and us want to stick our feet in the mud. But once we got over that, once we tried it, once we said, yes, we'll at least give it a shot and we saw the value of that, that set the stage for the rest of our growth because we had a problem that we thought we couldn't do.We learned that we could do it, we did it, and it made us stronger for the next problem that was coming down the way. Yeah. And none of that was like, I had no idea any of that was happening as the person that was being taught and led. Yeah. It's really remarkable and . Cool.[00:10:26] Jeffrey Liker: So they were being, they were the students, but, and the, they're, they were the top management.So in a sense this was a top down approach, only teaching the top managements. On the other hand, if you only have 40 people and three of the managers are leading this, that's a large percentage of the workforce. Yeah. Getting deep exposure to the way of thinking of linear. So that went on to for about 10, 10 years till 2013 when Kata was first introduced.[00:10:57] Joe Krebs: Yeah. So that's an interesting thing. Why? So there was a transition towards Kata and I just want to. Check in with you. Like, how did, what was the trigger for that? And obviously, why did you adopt this approach? Kata most specifically, [00:11:10] Betty Gratopp: I remember, I can still remember Eduardo.I remember when he brought the book. I remember the day he brought the book and I remember it actually happening because we had been through three or four different programs iterations trials of things to get the frontline crew involved. So programs or ways of now that the managers were bought into this work and saw the value in it.And we wanted to bring more of the frontline crew along. But we weren't having much success with that. So we tried out. There was a. I forget the names of the initiatives, but there were two or three or four programs that we tried. [00:11:48] Jeffrey Liker: This was one practices one. [00:11:50] Betty Gratopp: Another one was was something Tom came up with where we were going to have extra.I forget the name of it. Sorry. [00:11:56] Jeffrey Liker: They're incentivizing with money. Yeah. You got some percentage of the savings. Yeah. [00:12:02] Betty Gratopp: So we tried a couple different things to get frontline engaged with the managers. So, and it didn't work. So the next thing that we were going to try was Kata. And I remember actually saying I was willing to try anything at that point that was different than what we'd been trying.And this stuck. So Yeah. Yeah. I can, I remember asking the crew one time to come along with us on a Toyota business practice thing. And they were like, literally, I'd rather go to the dentist. I'd rather go anywhere right now than come with you on this little project that you have laid out of when Kata came.And I don't know if it's because it's four steps and five questions, or if it was the time in the business or what the case was. But people gravitated toward it. And if I had to guess it's because it defaults to action, like we are not a team that likes to sit around in a room and strategize about what a word means.It would make us crazy with the like perfect problem statement and things like that. We're just not geared for that. We're warehouse folks who want to be out on the floor doing things. And I think that's part of it. So it looks simple. I look at the recipe, I'm looking at it on the wall right now, and I go, wow, 1,2,3,4, really cool, really simple.Then you get into it and you find out what, how challenging and engaging it is, and it's enough to keep you going, right? [00:13:30] Joe Krebs: Yeah, and that was 2012 2013, somewhere in that time frame, right? [00:13:34] Betty Gratopp: Yeah, right around 2013. [00:13:35] Jeffrey Liker: At the same time as Betty was adopting this, because Eduardo has suggested it. Yeah. I was being kind of indoctrinated by Mike Rother, and we live in the same town.He was one of my students, and I decided to change my graduate course. I taught a graduate course for about 30 years and on organizational theory. And I decided to change it to lean think lean thinking and use kata as the framework for the whole course and have the students do projects and local companies.So I approached Betty to ask if our students could do kata projects. And I was like, how do I say this to Betty, like, how do I explain Kata? She's going to think I'm from Mars. And I mentioned Kata and she said, that's what we're doing. On my list of things for the year is to introduce Kata. I think we need to talk.So then I went and visited her that same afternoon and it was again, a perfect meeting, coincidence of goals. And it was really my students. Working with her people on the floor on kata that really started driving it as well as her at some point. They asked if her student if her people who are warehouse workers, a lot of them didn't have a college degree, but she asked if they could sit in on my graduate course.And that's what happened. So I had about 15 of these Zingerman's Warehouse met people in my graduate course, and then we're having breakout discussions there with my students and we, and it was the discussions were really rich, and the students are working with them in the warehouse and they're the experts in the warehouse.So the course turned out great. And what we did is in that first semester turned out great. [00:15:31] Joe Krebs: I can only imagine how rich the conversation conversations were between, you know, people at a university, but also bringing the real life and real world touch into the conversation [00:15:41] Jeffrey Liker: And they brought food. We would have, of [00:15:44] Betty Gratopp: Of course, we brought food.I take food wherever I go. [00:15:48] Joe Krebs: That is fantastic. [00:15:49] Betty Gratopp: The relationship between the students and our frontline coaches or between the managers and the, our frontline coaches and the students is really where a really nice piece of the benefits of working kata come in. When you're first learning this thing together, everybody's new.I didn't know what I was doing and in order for me to help teach others, I had to be willing to kind of step in it a lot. Over and over again and do it wrong. That's an amazing example for anybody else who's trying to learn something. I think one of the biggest things that we've had to get over here and it still comes up.It's not something that we ever stopped working on is. Is the environment safe so that people feel like they can test, try, fail, learn, whatever word you want to put on it. This gave us something to point to that said, we want to do this and we're going to not do it right all the time. And that is to be expected.In fact, it's desirous. That's a really different mind frame than most or mindset than most people walk into a workplace with each day. It really does put us into a laboratory where, you know, we love our food. We love that we pack boxes, but it's so much more. What we do out there is so much more in the relationships that we build and the way that we learn to interact and work on challenging goals together.It's super cool. [00:17:18] Jeffrey Liker: The we needed challenges. They needed the first step is to find the challenge. So they had to find projects based on challenges. And at one point we had eight student groups in there. So they had to have eight projects, eight challenges going on simultaneously. But so they would find, and I said, it has to be something where they can make a dent on it.And run through several target conditions over a semester, you can continue working on it after that, but it can't be too big and it can't be too small so small that they have the solution immediately. So they would pick not redesign the whole warehouse problems, but more like there are errors that are made when people take things off the shelf and put them in the boxes, and you don't get exactly what you ordered.They call it mis picks. So that was a recurring project is reducing mis picks. And another one was that was in the book was that it takes too long to take bread off the shelf and bag it. And get it to the production line and just in time and sometimes we are too late and also we're going to have to scale up and we expect the busiest season Christmas season ever.And we're going to have to scale up to work to a fast, much faster tack time. So, that was in that book, so that there was significant problems. They tend to be within a process rather than across the whole warehouse. And they would have a bunch of these going on at one time, and there are problems that they haven't been able to solve easily.On their own. [00:18:51] Joe Krebs: Yeah. Betty, you have touched a little bit on that already from a Kata and cultural perspective, but I want to go a little bit deeper on that. And I was just looking at the timeframe you guys mentioned before, and it's kind of, it's interesting because like your, the original start 2003, Kata came 2012, 13.And if you want to look at this timeline right now, we're recording this in January 2024, somewhat in the middle. So you have been going like 10 years there and 10 years after. I want to talk a little bit about the culture, like the culture of the company, the teams, the crews what the culture was like that enabled Kata in 2013.Like what were the signals and the signs there that you would say Oh, these were like, you know, setting the stage for us to be successful. Because you are successful with this. And then also I would love to see from both of you obviously to what has Kata done to the culture and positively impacted the culture at a Zingerman's mail order.Can you explore a little bit both of you on this because I feel like that's an it's an important piece and from it's unique if you're thinking about a company being trying to do it, not trying to do this, being successful with this Kata approach, being in this journey for such a long period of time.[00:20:05] Jeffrey Liker: Maybe you should go back to the kind of unique people oriented culture of Zingerman's. [00:20:10] Betty Gratopp: Yes. Yes, absolutely. So, you know, when I hired on here, I hired on in Zingerman's, I'm not going to give you a year, a long time ago, because otherwise, I'm really old. That was 1997. And I worked in catering. So I hired on as a frontline employee at Zingerman's Deli, one of our sister businesses.And I was immediately taken by the culture and the people from day one, I felt valued. It was really apparent that they wanted more from me than just putting meat on trays or making nice catering trays, which is also a really great thing. But They wanted to know what I wanted to do. They wanted to know what I thought about things that we were doing at the time.I felt heard and I felt valued. There's not a lot of places when you walk in the door into a new job, I don't in my experience anyway, where I felt that valued from the get go. And I stuck around and as a result, I've been able to grow into the position that I have now. Mostly because I've been willing to learn and I've been given a really safe place and a really great learning environment to do that.So my, what I want to do is provide that for everybody else that I work with, and that's the culture I think that Jeff was describing, our unique people based culture, I think is how you said it, is that it's a cycle of everybody trying to help everybody else have a more engaging job. You know, we're all striving for that success [00:21:44] Jeffrey Liker: and they have profit sharing, very active profit sharing and they have, they call it open book management where everybody could see all the numbers and how much [00:21:52] Betty Gratopp: servant leadership[00:21:53] Jeffrey Liker: It is a very open culture.And they provide somebody who was standing behind a counter. That's who's making a sandwich for you. That person has benefits and they're making a living wage. [00:22:03] Betty Gratopp: So it is really is about respect for people and, you know, providing an opportunity for growth. [00:22:10] Joe Krebs: But if I understand that that was already prior to the arrival of Kata.[00:22:13] Betty Gratopp: Yes. So what's really fun about that story though, is even with that culture. Adopting Kata was not like one, two, three, four, go. Everybody was energized by it. Everybody wanted to learn to do it. It doesn't mean that it's easy. And that was true with even all the Lean tools as well. So Kata wasn't unique in that way.And when you're trying to learn new things, we expect that it's going to be fun. I always expect things to be fun or try to make it fun. And we want it to be easy, but that's not when we learn. And we're not advancing our knowledge as a warehouse team if we are not struggling in some fashion towards something.So there's a little bit of a disconnect between how America or whatever thinks that we want work to be like, we kind of want to come to work and check out if you're practicing kata. That's not what you're able to do. You have to be completely engaged. In your in whatever it is that you're doing. [00:23:11] Jeffrey Liker: Yeah. The Toyota Way. There's respect for people and continuous improvement and a lot of companies I've worked with get the continuous improvement part and the tools pretty quickly. But they're weak on respect for people. And Zingerman's was the opposite. It was very strong in respect for people and very weak on the tools and the concepts of continuous improvement.And we thought from the beginning that it was easier to teach the tools. Within a favorable culture, then to teach the tools and then try to change the culture. So we thought it was a very nice fit and it turned out that way. That the fit was very strong. Yeah. [00:23:54] Joe Krebs: Thanks for pointing that out, Jeff. I think that's a that's an important takeaway also to see that there was a specific culture there that actually enabled what was.About to happen with the introduction of Kata, but then once scientific thinking took over 2013 and following, how did Kata positively impact the culture? How did it drive forward? What happened to it? I would assume it did not [00:24:23] Betty Gratopp: stay the same. I was thinking of the years from 2000. We started in 2013, 2018 was our best year ever best year.When I say that, I think of in terms of capacity the quality of our work, internal mistakes, things of that nature. Those were the years that we were, we had an engaged warehouse team. That was working on Kata, we went to school every year that kept us accountable to Dr. Liker's class. We're still doing that.Actually, we were inviting people in for tours and things like that as a way of elevating our work, because when our crew on the floor sees people come and they're curious about what it is that we're doing, that's kind of new and different for a warehouse staff person to have that sort of experience.I just lost my train of thought, but I was going somewhere really good.[00:25:14] Jeffrey Liker: So you were talking about the peak. So what was different? 13 to 18. We're learning. We're driving down the stakes. We're engaged. What happened in 2019 is we took our the eye, our eye off the ball a bit because of the COVID epidemic.And we started ticking back up, but you can look at our year over year, both in our capacity and our quality. And you can see when we started Kata. Actively practicing it and then you can see, so you can see mistakes going down. You can see revenue, things like that going up and you can see when the pandemic stopped our practice and what the impact of that was on our business.Mistakes went up. We weren't paying a lot of attention. There was a lot of other things going on. So it wasn't that we weren't paying attention. It was that our attention was on other things, like keeping people safe. And that's when our scientific thinking kicked in again, only in a different fashion.So it wasn't that we had storyboards everywhere. But every day that we came to work, the three managers were very active in thinking, what is it I can do today to keep people safe? What is it today? I can do now that people are safe to increase capacity. What is our next goal? How are we going to get there?It was pretty fascinating. Yeah. One of the things that impressed me because I bet he was kind of reporting to me at the time what's happened with COVID. And one thing is that people had to think about their jobs and what they touched and using sanitizer. And. What I would see in companies is that somebody say in human resources, which is responsible for safety, would come up with policies and then they would spread the policies every place.But in Zingerman's, they had the group leaders who had a small group and each group leader had to study the job and find out where their touch points and find out how they should use sanitizer. And. They tailored the solution to the standardized work of that particular job, and it was much deeper than the kind of more superficial thinking of everybody has to use sanitizer, you know, and yeah, so I could see the thinking way, even though they weren't formally using the method or storyboard.[00:27:32] Joe Krebs: Yeah, just to that point you're making, right? So sanitizing people, keeping people safe, respecting people, right? As a cultural anchor, as well as having a scientific thinking pattern for continuous improvement. Those two things might be really good attributes for navigating through the COVID crisis.[00:27:58] Betty Gratopp: What was yes, and what was surprising to me is I remember thinking that I might have misstepped by not having a storyboard. And then I think it was Jeff that said, no, actually, it was like the thinking in action. Like you were doing it the workout. I knew that the work was outpacing the storyboard and I knew I couldn't keep it up to date.It was good. That's good. [00:28:18] Jeffrey Liker: But I have the I think often what happens if you have a company that's good to its workers and is strong in respect for people. Is they may lack discipline in executing in a sort of systematic way and also improving in a systematic way. And I think that's what lean and then Kata introduced was a lot more rigor and discipline in how they structured their daily work and how they structured their approach to improvement and reaching their goals.. [00:28:53] Betty Gratopp: It's interesting that you say that because It is true and when, you know, when coven did happen and we were, we had an amazing amount of demand and growth and we tried to, we were hiring during COVID. But so there was like, 3 years there where. I think we did what other companies may experience where the demand hides perhaps some of your missteps internal mistakes were creeping up.We weren't quite aware of that. Standard work wasn't getting used as much as it used to get used. And we weren't really aware of that. And I say all these things just, Because in 2022, when we came, when we started to come out of the pandemic and look at our situation, because of our Kata training and our scientific thinking and.Having advanced to where we had, we were able to look at those years with a different set of eyes, not to say that it didn't hurt to think that we didn't we weren't paying attention to internal mistakes and we weren't auditing our standard work and we weren't focused on growing our.Staff during that time, but we knew that it was just a break. We think of it as a, we had a critical break in 2022 and we had the observation also that we had been here before in 2013, ironically, 10 years ago, as Joe pointed out, and we knew how to do the work. So it wasn't so much it wasn't a self defeat moment.It was a moment of, oh gosh, it's kind of not great that we're here, but we knew how to do the work, and we knew the next step forward, and we knew what we needed to do. And that makes it okay. It makes it. It actually makes it inspiring. You're not inspired at first. At first, you're just okay. But by the time you walk through it and you're like, Oh yeah, we've been here before.And you start getting some traction and the crew starts coming along again. Then it starts being inspired. [00:30:49] Jeffrey Liker: Busy season. Betty was another, it was another pretty successful season, right? [00:30:54] Betty Gratopp: It was better than 2022 markedly. Yes, we had we saw good results of the work that we did last summer. So coming out of holiday 2022, we had our work cut out for us.We spent the summer or I'm sorry, 23. we spent the summer working on that. Yeah. And we had a better year because of it. And when I say by working on it, we were using our scientific thinking to reach our goals. [00:31:20] Jeffrey Liker: I think that one, yeah, one of the things that I think Betty's saying is that the Mike calls the kata starter kata.So the starter kata includes here's the four steps, your challenge, your current state, your target condition, and then experiment and put it on a storyboard. And there's a coach and the coach has a question card and every day ask these questions. And that's the, those are the kata to the tools to help you get started.But the goal of kata is actually to eliminate the kata, is to get to the point where it's just the way you naturally think. And you don't need to say, wait a second, I better write that down on a storyboard. Yeah. [00:32:03] Joe Krebs: What's the fourth question?[00:32:05] Jeffrey Liker: People like Betty had gotten to that point. Not everybody in the warehouse did, but the leaders, all the leaders really of the warehouse had gotten to that point where they're thinking scientifically not necessarily grabbing the tools.[00:32:20] Joe Krebs: That's right. Absolutely. It wouldn't be continuous improvement without continuation. The comic you guys have published is a snapshot in time. It had to end somewhere. It had to go to the printer and has to be shipped. But the journey is going to continue. I would assume that the Kata journey will continue.I don't know how much you can share. You're very open and public with tours and everything on the floor. What are some things you, I don't know if you can share of anything or Jeff by working with Zingerman's, it's just like, where's the Kata journey gonna go? Are there, what are the goals?What are you, what's on your mind if you're thinking about Kata and the next steps? There's another year ahead of us. 24. You just mentioned 20 coming out of 22 busy season. There were some changes. What's happening now for you guys in Kata,. [00:33:14] Jeffrey Liker: We started to address that at the end of the book, and I think it's pretty accurate still, but there's a concept in Toyota hoshin kanri.It's also called strategy deployment where you start top down and you say, these are our biggest challenges. And, you know, there's four big challenges and then for each of those this year, we're going to have a big challenging audacious target for the year. And then that cascades down. So everybody has a piece of that problem of that goal, and they have their own goals that are aligned with those goals at the top of the company.So far, mostly what you saw mail order was individual projects. And it wasn't guided by a strategic vision. So getting to that point where it becomes natural to have an annual plan. And to execute the plan through the year with people involved at all levels. That's one thing. I know that Zingerman's working toward.It would be a huge step forward. [00:34:23] Betty Gratopp: Yeah, that's interesting. You mentioned that we just rolled out a, I call it the big goal instead of challenge your vision. We've called it the big goal. So now we have a, it's written as a Zingerman mail order wide, and then we'll take it and it'll be more specific to the warehouse, but it has to do with capacity, quality, and cost.So it has a I could read it to you if you want. [00:34:45] Jeffrey Liker: Go ahead. [00:34:45] Betty Gratopp: It's not, it's just a challenge. The beginning of a challenge statement, it's two days old, so you have to cut us some slack too. . It says literally two days old. ZMO is a dynamic team able to meet demand defined as 9, 000 boxes in a single ship day.While maintaining an internal quality percentage of 93 percent and offering a Zing org experience. This is to be done by December 2023. So it's a one year challenge for the warehouse and mail order as a larger business. It's not perfect. It'll probably change. [00:35:26] Joe Krebs: It will probably change, [00:35:27] Betty Gratopp: It'll probably change.[00:35:28] Joe Krebs: The journey continues. [00:35:30] Betty Gratopp: Yes. But yes. [00:35:32] Joe Krebs: And I do want to thank you guys for sharing that story a little bit making it really real and building that connect from a mail order business, a floor, very actionable to everybody listening out there. Some of my guests on agile FM, we're talking about sometimes about organizational culture.This is real. This is the culture in, in action. So I want to thank you for spending that time here with me and with the listeners. Thank you, Betty. Thank you, Jeff. [00:36:01] Jeffrey Liker: Thank you. [00:36:02] Betty Gratopp: Thank you. Thanks for having us.

My guest for Episode #498 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Jeffrey K. Liker. Jeff is Professor Emeritus from the University of Michigan, President of Liker Lean Advisors, and author of the great books in the Toyota Way series. Episode page with video, transcript, and more He was previously a guest here in Episodes 3, 4, 37, 39, 41, 111, and 400. Today, we have a discussion centered around learning from mistakes in the context of Toyota and lean methodologies. The episode delves into the significance of recognizing, reacting to, and learning from mistakes within organizations that employ Toyota Production System (TPS) or lean strategies. Jeff shares his insights on how Toyota's culture of continuous improvement and learning from errors fundamentally drives its success. The conversation touches on Toyota's approach to leadership and problem-solving, emphasizing the structured response to mistakes at different levels of the organization, from the factory floor to top management. The episode further explores the Toyota leadership model, illustrating how leaders at various levels are expected to react when mistakes occur. Liker explains the role of the andon cord system in facilitating immediate problem identification and resolution, showcasing Toyota's commitment to quality and efficiency. He elaborates on the multi-layered leadership response to errors, detailing the responsibilities of team leaders, group leaders, and higher management in fostering a culture of learning and improvement. The discussion underscores the importance of a systemic approach to problem-solving, where the focus is on understanding and addressing the root causes of mistakes rather than attributing blame to individuals. This episode offers valuable insights into the principles of lean leadership and the critical role of acknowledging and learning from mistakes in achieving organizational excellence and innovation. Questions, Notes, and Highlights: How you'd expect Toyota leaders to react to a mistake on the factory floor? Less likely to blame an individual?  Root cause vs. controllable cause? That can be a tough lesson to teach other companies? Hardest habit to break is the blame habit? Mistakes people make in trying to help change behavior What's necessary, in another company's workplace culture, for people to feel safe pulling the andon cord or speaking up? Article about the Ford plant and andon cords in 2007 Jeff insights on that Dearborn plant The mention of psychological safety in “Toyota Culture”? What do you think of the phrase “psychological safety”? Or just the concept of it? Fujio Cho – biggest surprise was that TMMK workers were afraid to pull the andon cord New book: Engaging the Team at Zingerman's Mail Order The podcast is brought to you by Stiles Associates, the premier executive search firm specializing in the placement of Lean Transformation executives. With a track record of success spanning over 30 years, it's been the trusted partner for the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare sectors. Learn more. This episode is also brought to you by “The Optimistic Outlook,” hosted by Barbara Humpton, CEO of Siemens USA. This podcast is a hub for those passionate about transformative concepts that shape both our workplaces and our world. Find it in your favorite podcast app. This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network. 

Gareth Higgins was born in Belfast in 1975, grew up during the northern Ireland Troubles, and now lives in the US. He writes and speaks about the power of storytelling to shape our lives and world, peace and making justice, and how to take life seriously without believing your own propaganda. He has been involved in peace-building and violence reduction in northern Ireland and helping address the legacy of conflict, received a Ph.D. in Sociology from Queen's University Belfast, and helped teach the world's first graduate course in Reconciliation Studies at Trinity College Dublin. He also helped found the Wild Goose, New Story and Movies & Meaning festivals. Gareth leads retreats in North America and Ireland; and he founded The Porch Magazine. Brian McLaren says Gareth's new book How Not to be Afraid is “a beautiful book”, Kathleen Norris says it's “a necessary book”, and Micky ScottBey Jones says it's “a much-needed resource for skill-building through our fear and trauma, so that we might create the belonging and communities we desire”. Nadia Bolz-Weber says “I totally trust Gareth Higgins when he writes about his own fear and how it's actually possible to transform it into something powerful, something capable of healing us and the world.” Pádraig Ó Tuama says “Gareth Higgins is a friend. This book is too.” Find out more at www.hownottobeafraid.com Ari Weinzweig, Co-founding Partner of the Zingerman's Community of Businesses, is a line cook turned CEO and thought leader. He shares his learnings about positive business through his prolific writing. The first four books in his Guide to Good Leading series explore the principles, beliefs, and pillars of the Zingerman's organization. His newest work is the artisan pamphlet, A Taste of Zingerman's Food Philosophy.Ari is still actively engaged in many aspect of the day-to-day operations and governance of the eleven Zingerman's businesses across Ann Arbor, Michigan. In 2017, Ari was named one of "The World's Top 10 CEOs (They Lead in a Totally Unique Way)" by Inc. Magazine.Ari regularly travels across the country and world on behalf of Zingerman's, teaching organizations and businesses about Zingerman's approach to business through keynotes and private training. Contact him at ari@zingermans.com

Joe has a book “Agile Kata” in the making, if you like to be the first to know when it launches, please visit www.agilekatabook.com.Transcript: Agile F M radio for the agile community. [00:00:05] Joe Krebs: Thank you for tuning into another episode of Agile FM. Today, I have Dr. Jeffrey Liker with me. You probably know from a, I would say, famous book with the title The Toyota Way. That is a book we want to talk about today a little bit, but there's so much, much more about Jeff, he is a professor of industrial and operations engineering at the University of Michigan.He's president of Liker Lean Advisors, and as I said, he wrote not only the Toyota Way, but he also wrote, if I did the count right, nine other books. That relate to Toyota, and there are two books that more recently were published and we'll have a chance in a different episode to talk about those.One was in June, 2023, Giving Wings to her team with Tilo Schwartz, and we have Engaging the Team at Zingerman's Mail Order and that's more like a comic if you want to see it this way, and he co authored that with Eduardo Lander and Tim Root, so that is the The list of books if I haven't missed anything, but we want to talk a little bit about the Toyota way before we do that.Welcome to the show though, Jeff. [00:01:13] Jeffrey Liker: Thank you. Joe. [00:01:16] Joe Krebs: Awesome. So the Toyota way initially released, I believe 2000, somewhere three, two, somewhere that this book we're talking about is the Toyota way. Second edition. This is also very important. We're talking about the second edition of which, which was released somewhere in the year 2021. Timeframe. [00:01:34] Jeffrey Liker: Yes. Three, about two years old. [00:01:36] Joe Krebs: Yeah. And but there is something that happened in that book that is fundamentally different in, in terms of I, I don't know all the change log and everything, but there's one fundamental change, and that is the inclusion of scientific thinking.[00:01:52] Jeffrey Liker: Right, right. A little over five years ago, Mike Rother than I jointly gave a presentation and the book hit my book Toyota Way was 20 years old. So the 20 year anniversary, and his book to Toyota Kata was, I believe, 10 years old, and. We started talking about the relationship between the two.Mike was one of my students and he had practiced lean transformation for many years and was very familiar with the Toyota way and all the concepts of Toyota and studied Toyota. And then he came up with this thing called Toyota Kata. And I had to kind of struggle to sort of figure out what it was and what he was trying to add to what we know about Toyota.And. What he really did was to reverse engineer what Toyota, we call him Toyota Sensei. Sensei is like a master teacher. So what the Toyota Sensei, who are experts on the Toyota production system, do when they work with a new client outside of Toyota, how do they teach it? And they always teach by doing.And he had a chance to see a lot of companies that these different Toyota masters worked with and their masterpieces. And. Asked the question, What do they have in common? And they're all very successful, like they almost won't even bother working on a project unless they can at least double productivity.And that just happens almost automatically. And so he knew that they got great results. But the question is, what are they doing. And in fact, each of these masters. It has a bit of an ego, and they think that they're doing it the right way and the best way, and nobody else can do it that way, the way they do, but he found an underlying pattern, which he called scientific thinking, and what he noticed is the first thing they do is they grasp, they call it grasp the situation in Toyota, they go in, they see what's going on, they talk to the top leaders, and they ask, what is it that they're trying to accomplish?What is their goal? What is their purpose? What are their goals? Why do they want to learn about lean management? What is their vision for what happened? If they were successful, then they go to the Gemba where the activity is, and it could be a factory that they work. They've worked with where they gave you injections for COVID 19.They've worked with where they made ventilators for COVID 19. They've worked with software houses where they develop software. They don't really care when they will go to the Gemba and they'll see the process and understand the current conditions. So then they'll go back, they'll grasp the situation generally, and then they'll go back and they'll say, here's where you're at.Here's the challenge for you. Yeah. And the challenge is always big, you know, like we will double productivity or we will reduce costs by 30 percent or something pretty big based on the needs of the company may have runaway late deliveries and there's paying a ton for a premium freight.And we'll say we will eliminate all shipping and then they will go back to the Gemba with a team of people from the company. And they will teach them how to see, how to understand the process as it is. And Mike calls this the current condition. And then the people in the company will basically wait and expect answers, solutions from the masters.So what do we do? And the masters will say, that's my question to you. What are you going to do? You see where you are, you see where you want to be. You see all sorts of opportunities. What do you think you should be working on first? And then based on what they say the students say, they they may ask them to go back and look some more.Or they may say, why don't we try it? Usually what these people come in the company, come up with, because it's a big challenge, they come up with a fairly big thing and they, it might be, for example, in a manufacturing facility, moving equipment around and laying it out as a cell and They said a personal last one.Can you do this? And they'll say something like, well, we have to talk to engineering and we have to make sure customers okay with this. We have to line up the maintenance people move the equipment. So, I think we really stretch it. Maybe we could do it in a week. And then the trade master will say, good, I'll be back tomorrow and that like starts the process. Now, of course they can't do it in a day what they might have to do it. They can't get all the approvals. So what the person is trying to get them to do is. You don't have to do a hundred percent in one step. Let's try something that's doable and then see what happens.And then we can learn from it. And then we can think about based on that, what our next step is. Usually what happens is the, like, for example, if they lay out a cell. It'll be a disaster. You'll move the equipment together and they'll realize that the equipment has maintenance issues and it's breaking down and everything stops because they don't have inventory anymore.And usually they can't, they barely make product and the you know, the mentors say, that's okay. Let's start working on the problems down now that we see what the problems are. You were hiding them before. Now let's start working on the problems one by one. So Mike saw that, and he saw it enough times, that he realized that what the, these Master thinkers were doing.We're not teaching tools and methods like most of the Westerners were doing with lean. They were teaching a way of thinking. Yeah. And it was actually very scientific. What's your goal? What's your current condition? Right. You know, fairly precisely with measurements and direct observation. And then let's not try to in one step get to the challenge.Let's break down the problem. And all we really need to understand is our first step. And then after that, our second step, our third step, and each of these steps were structured like experiments. They might ask them, what do you think will happen if we make the cell? And then, you know, the people will say, Oh, well, our productivity will go up or quality will go up.Let's see what happens. Yeah. It's a disaster. Yeah. So what did we learn from that? We learned that we have a lot of problems that we've been hiding. And now we can see the problems we have to solve them. So, and also they're trying to teach the value of running the experiment, learning from it, which then gives you the next step and gives you the next step.So that became the basis for what. Mike call Toyota kata. The other part of it was in the meantime, he was studying about neuroscience and cognitive psychology and how we learn and there's a lot of literature that suggests that none of us are natural scientific thinkers, right? We're driven more by biases and the desire to know things, whether we do or not.So we want a lot of certainty. And we want to be right. We're going to, in fact, fudge the data to make it appear that we're right. That's called confirmation bias, which is really strong in humans. So he realized that to change people, to start to think and act scientifically requires fundamental behavior change.That's right. Yeah. It means changing our habits. And then he asked the question, how do you change habits? And the literature on, on, on cognitive psychology and neuroscience, as well as Practical experience, for example, with coaching sports teams, it all says the same thing, which we have to practice repeatedly with feedback.And it's very common enough times it becomes a new habit. So then he said, asked, how do you, how can we practice scientific thinking? And he said, first, we need a model, which we have, which is challenge current condition, first short term target condition, then experiment, then second target condition and experiment.Then third target condition and experiment. And. Then he said, how can we teach this? And each of those steps has some associated ways of thinking and tools and think practice routines, things to practice. So he laid that out in what he calls the Toyota Kata practice guide, which is pictures and step by step instruction, like, Like a recipe book and he came up with kata, which comes from the martial arts, which mean small practice routines to teach us complex skill by breaking it down and trying the pieces one by one karate.They'll have the first kata and move the second kata until you learn the first kata. That's right. Correctly. So it's an evolution. Yeah, and usually think about, you know, taking a music lesson until you can play the very simple piece. They want. Go on to the next more complicated piece. All right. So, that led to the whole Toyota Kata, which is a model plus the practice routines.And as you practice them, you begin to think more naturally in a scientific way. [00:11:20] Joe Krebs: Right. So what's interesting is so when I started looking at Mike Rothers work right on, on Kata, and obviously I read your first edition, came in to the second edition and it just like became more and more eyeopening is these habit changes or like a habits we have and habits we want to change that's the same in the agile community, right?So we have certain habits of how we. build software or how we release software and go through transformation and all these cultural changes. So it's just like this meta skill. If you want to see it this way, that, that's that's fascinating when I came across this now, I do want to make sure that If I understand this right, this is obviously not that in 2021 Toyota started with scientific thinking.It was there before, right? It is like something that was carved out as something like it should go into the Toyota way as this core thing. So if you look at [00:12:10] Jeffrey Liker: Yeah. So that was the, we ended up giving a presentation where we said Toyota way and Toyota Kata play well together as if there were separate things.And then thinking about some more, I realized that scientific thinking really underlies. What I called in the Toyota way, the four P's of the Toyota way. The first was philosophy, which I refer to as long term systems thinking. And the second is lean processes. The process of trying to work toward one piece flow.And the third is developing people. In problem solving, which is the fourth "P" and I realized these all are connected through scientific thinking, right? And if you're not thinking scientifically, you can't do any of them. For example, you can't be a system thinker. Yeah. If you're a jelly non scientific thinking is reductionist.We assume every individual tool operates on its own. So we implement Kanban to get inventory reductions and we implement standardized work to get productivity improvements. So we're seeing isolated tools as opposed to a whole system, which is what Mike called the Toyota production system. So with that, I then started to rethink the book from the point of view of scientific thinking, being at the center.And also realizing that you can't really talk about lean as if it's a bunch of mechanistic pieces that you individually build and then they just all suddenly fit together. You have to talk about more of an evolutionary learning process. Yeah. Organization. [00:13:48] Joe Krebs: Yeah. This is interesting. So, I have never consulted for Toyota myself but I was told that the word Toyota Kata does not really, it's not a use, it use Toyota.[00:13:58] Jeffrey Liker: That was not their word. It was Mike's. [00:13:59] Joe Krebs: Exactly. Yeah. [00:14:00] Jeffrey Liker: Description from the outside of what he learned in Toyota. And then he went further and say, the Japanese sensei, they tend to be pretty mysterious Yeah. Yeah, it's light. For example, do it tomorrow. Yeah, we'll come and see. So what should I do now? What do you think you should do now?Yeah. So they tend to be mysterious, but he realized that if we want to mass distribute this to people that don't have access to those magical Japanese, we need a very explicit and simple methodology. So he developed in great detail, this methodology that in Toyota, they wouldn't think they had to use because they, what they say is that from the day you enter the company, the culture is so strong.You begin to learn Kaizen. [00:14:49] Joe Krebs: Yeah. Interesting. So, what was that one of the reasons why you decided to call that core scientific thinking, or was it more like, because it's the thinking and not the tool, it's not the pattern [00:15:00] Jeffrey Liker: thinking now it turns out. You go back to the first Japanese pamphlet. Really? It was a document for the first Japanese document that describes the Toyota production system.It says that it's based on scientific thinking. So for people in Toyota, that's not. Unusual. It's not a stretch, but they, and they think of scientific thinking more empirically than theoretically. So there's theoretical science where we just. In the abstract. And then we deduce from that things and we apply the abstract model to a problem.And then there's inductive science where we look at the phenomena and the empirical reality. And then we induce from that principles and solutions. And so in Toyota, they learned that you need very specific solutions to very specific problems. Yeah. Not general solutions to a whole general class of problems.So you need both to some degree, but they're much more focused than most on solving this problem right here, right now. Yeah. So when they see product development in software, we're developing a software program, they see it and maybe they see it as a part of product development, but they're not going to come in and say, here's your 10 step roadmap to great software.They're going to ask, what is your problem? What are you trying to accomplish? What's your goal? Let's go look at your current process. So they want to know the specifics of your situation and your goals. And they want you to learn how to think scientifically, to learn for yourself how to achieve whatever goals you have and adapt and adjust as the environment changes.[00:16:45] Joe Krebs: It is, it's fascinating also when I open up your new book, the second edition, right? There's also a thing where you design a I don't know if that's the content of your masterclass. I do know that you're teaching a lot of masterclasses but it's really the transition from a mechanistic lean, right?Organic lean. And if I go through the list of the organic lean, this is just like, it just translates for me, for somebody who has been now, you know, using, learning, applying Kata thinking more and more it just links like one, one, one to one, like two to the scientific thinking too, right? [00:17:17] Jeffrey Liker: Yeah, the other part is that whatever performance improvement program you have, Whether it's lean or agile or theory of constraints or whatever.If you look at it from what I call mechanistic point of view, then you're trying to fit square pegs in the round holes, you know, your problems, I want your problems to fit into my model. . and the other expression pill uses, if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.So, You can apply Lean, you can apply Agile, you can apply Six Sigma mechanistically, or you can apply any of those things organically. You start organically, you start with a problem. You want to engage the people who understand the Gemba the reality the best. And you want to teach them how to think differently about their process.So they developed the skills of problem solving and performance improvement, and you expect to be surprised and you expect that you won't know the answers until you start digging in and trying things, Mechanistic point of view, you, I have the solution and I'm going to sell you the solution, even though I've never been in your place.I've never seen your process. I don't know anything about. Yeah, I have the solution for you. That's kind of taking this abstract solution and assuming it's going to apply in the abstract to any similar type of problem. Staying at that theoretical level. [00:18:49] Joe Krebs: This is this could I want to just take one example.You know, I want to hear your opinion about this as you do teach these classes, right? When you are surrounded by leaders in those workshops, and you do talk about something like, yeah, I find like the right line here. It's not about like organic, Lean. It would be, it's not a project. It's a journey.Right. And I would just like to hear like what kind of responses, what do you hear when you introduce a concept like this, in terms of continuous improvement and it's a journey or it's a. From a cultural perspective, it's not like an initiative that starts here and ends in by the end of March or any arbitrary date you, somebody might pick it as an ongoing activity that obviously shifts from a leadership perspective, entirely the view, like, what did you hear when you challenge people?[00:19:39] Jeffrey Liker: When I teach the masterclass, the people that usually come have titles like director of continuous improvement, vice president operations excellence and then I'll get some people who might be the head of operations or plant manager, but and you're probably this is self selection, but they all agree when we talk about it.That the approach they have used in the past was very mechanistic and the approach that they believe, particularly after they see it in Toyota. So we do this with Toyota is they see the value of engaging all the people and Leaders acting more as coaches than as disciplinarians. And they said, that's what we need.So they, they conclude they want to move toward a more organic approach, but then they also feel a little bit concerned and nervous because I said, you know, my boss's boss expects immediate measurable results from everything we do with lean. And if you're telling me that it takes time, if you're telling me that it takes investment in developing people.And there's a gap, a time gap between the investments we make in developing people, for example, teaching them using Kata and the results that we get, we're going to have a hard time selling that. So what we ended up concluding usually is that you need both, that there is some value in the experts coming in with the tools, eliminating waste and streamlining processes and getting.Quick results on a more expansive part of the organization. Cause these people are coming in with big companies. They might have 30 or 40 or 50 manufacturing plants and the, and that there's a value in piloting within a smaller area, some of the deeper approaches to changing ways of thinking and changing culture with the successes you have in those models.You have something to sell to the senior management, come and see this and see how much better they perform. So that's usually the kind of vision they have is that they have to somehow find a balance. And I have a slide that shows like, the balance of justice and they have to find a balance between the more mechanistic, quick, short term and superficial approach.Deep and a mile wide. And that's deploying the tools and then the more deep one inch wide, a mile deep, the more deep approach to developing people one by one that you would be doing with Kata. So they have to find a balance between those things, and they have to figure that out there through their own scientific thinking journey.They have to figure it out inside their company by trying things by experimenting. So I asked him instead of leaving here with a whole bunch of solutions. that you're going to bring and implement your company, think about one big challenge that would really make a difference. Your ability to deploy lean, sell lean and define that as a challenge.Then the next, what do you do next? And they said, well, we have to solve the problem. Okay. So how do you solve the problem? Do you go back there and say, we need standardized work. We need employ work groups that we saw at Toyota. And they said, no, those are solutions. We have to understand the current condition.First. That's a great, wonderful.[00:23:09] Joe Krebs: Back to scientific thinking.. This is awesome. Your book was initially the first edition came out as we said of. Several years ago, 2002 or something like that. Why do you think at least from the, from an agile perspective there's other terms floating around. I don't want to go into pick any, right, because it's not a complete list necessarily, but why do we.I see like a lack of of these terms actually like being used on a more broader level, right? You have sold so many books and people are looking at this and saying this is wonderful material, but the implementation, it seems to be slow in the transition. Like taking companies to lean or even in, in agile transformations, is it, do you think it has something to do with the the culture, like, like, for example, using Japanese terms or something like that?[00:24:01] Jeffrey Liker: Yeah, I don't think that so much. I mean, I think there is sometimes a sense that since this is a car company and you have a stereotype picture in your mind of what a car company does. And the first thing you often think about is the assembly line, where you have cars running down the assembly line and people are attaching things to the car.And you say, well, that doesn't look anything like what I do, so therefore, it doesn't apply to me. So there's a lot of that, you know, we're different. And it could be anything. It could be that we're a manufacturing company, but we make chemical products. It's not like cars going down the line. Or it could be that we're a finance company and we don't make any physical products.Or it could be that we work with a mining company that does iron ore mining in Australia and we go and we blast and we dig and we have this big batches of stuff. And how do we get to one piece flow? So, the the problem is that you have to shift your thinking from manufacturing. Mechanical solutions.Like I'm trying to look over here to get solutions that apply in an obvious way to me. You have to shift that thinking to there are some general principles here that have been abstract abstracted that I can then bring to my operations and the people who are well trained and lean or in Kata get very comfortable going into any new environment and not knowing What the solutions are, and then digging in and trying to understand the current condition of that operations.So this idea of I think the first easy thing to do is to copy solutions like a template. But if you give me a template, I'll just superimpose on my process and I know what to do. And the harder thing is to take a more abstract concept, like I need to define a challenge., even when I take my classes and I asked them to define a challenge, they struggle, you know, the challenges we want to have a culture of continuous improvement.Well, that's way too abstract. And then if they say, well, the challenges we would want, we'd like five suggestions per employee. That's way too specific. . So finding the right level of the challenge, you know, itself challenging challenges are thinking. And then what do you look at in the current condition?If it doesn't look like a Toyota plant where you can say it takes 60 seconds for each car and we can break down the steps of attaching window wiper into a reach that takes 2 seconds and, you know, They that's their current condition analysis. Your current condition analysis may be very different if you don't have a routine repeating process.But there are ways to understand the current condition in any sort of process. And even and I remember Deming saying that if you don't think you have a process, you can't improve anything. So, that even that idea that, you know, we develop software, and every software project is different. And the process is that we understand what the customer wants, and we do it.There's no process beyond that. You know, so that Just understanding there are processes, there are habits, there are routines that you have and you need to shine a light on them and understand them, and then figure out from where you are how to start to move in the direction. of the ideal model you have in your head.That, you know, it takes a, it takes thinking. Yeah. It's thinking is tiring. [00:27:36] Joe Krebs: Well, that's my recommendation to all of the listeners out there. When I went down the journey and extracted. By doing exactly what you just said, like looking at that material and extracting information saying like, okay, this is not about Toyota.This is not about this. This is about, you know, how would this apply a map to the agile world? I'm just calling it agile Kata out because of the making a dereferencing it to the Toyota. Brand, let's say in this particular case, but the thinking is the same in terms of the scientific thinking, but surrounding it with agile principles and, you know, [00:28:12] Jeffrey Liker: last thing I'd like to say is that as I dug into agile and you and I met.Menlo Innovations, which is kind of a benchmark for Agile and software development. And I looked at what they're doing there, which Richard Sheridan we're doing. And I saw lots of similarities to the Toyota way. And I saw also a lot of similarities to Toyota Kata. And I met, worked on Zingerman's mail order with Tom Root, who is one of the owners.He was originally an IT guy. So the backbone of the mail order business is the IT system. And what I discovered, and I've talked to you and I've talked to a lot of different IT people, what I discovered is that a lot of the concepts of scientific thinking are actually quite natural for programmers, you know, see, if I think in terms, if I say we need to think in terms of systems and how the parts interact, and I go into a manufacturing environment, they might think Treat me like I'm from another planet, but the software guy will say, of course, and then the idea that you have to have a vision for what the software is going to do and understand the customer.And then you have to break that down into small elements of some sort. Call them features, and then you need to develop one feature at a time and then compile them, make sure they work together as a system, and then build the next feature and compile it. And it's a step by step learning process, breaking the big problem into small pieces and then solving each problem one by one.That idea just you know, a software program said, how do you do it any other way? So the high level model of the Kata makes perfect sense. Within the world of software development, but how to do that in a sort of structured systematic way and make it part of the culture and natural.For example at Menlo Innovations, they do unit testing. And if I say unit testing to a software program and say, of course, we know what that is. Let's go and see your program and show me the unit test you've conducted. Exactly. And this kind of, yeah, and it's got to be hopefully more and more examples like this, right?Than than the one you're naming. And so I think somebody might be listening to this. Or reading the second edition of your book of the Toyota way might be building these bridges to whatever environment they are in, right? About in, in the Toyota way I do write about Menlo innovations. And so I, so that's another thing I did in the new edition is add more service examples and software examples and examples from other places, which I didn't have at the time I wrote the original book, I was just describing.So that's in the book. And it. The thinking way is still the same and one of the things that happened with Richard and to tell you the truth is that he started to get kind of turned off by a lot of the agile examples he was seeing, because they like the lean folks were often simply using a tool.Be that agile was almost equivalent to writing things on post it notes. Yeah, and he has all culture. He calls it deliberate culture. He had to develop the whole culture. Out of pairs, paired programming and programs learning from each other and sending what he calls technical anthropologists out to the customer to really deeply understand the Gemba and how they're using software and getting the customer in week by week, every single week to test the software and give feedback to the team.So there's a whole set of practices that he had to create as the standard for the culture of Menlo. That it took an awful lot of work and it was much more than buying a lot of post it notes. [00:32:08] Joe Krebs: Yes, and maybe that was one of the reasons why he decided when we all agreed on we're going to meet in Ann Arbor and it was in September 23 we'll all come together and it was Mike it was you and several others and Richard Sheridan was the first one who says and count me in and I'm offering my office space for this because it's so important.[00:32:25] Jeffrey Liker: So yeah, well he yeah so he didn't understand Kata at first but then I understood it. And he said, yeah, that's pretty much what we do. Isn't it? Then he had to, you know, he then added some things to what they do because they weren't working in a deliberate way using the scientific approach of kind, but the overarching way that they worked and developed all their software was very much the vision, current state, right down to small pieces, solve one problem after another with very quick feedback.Correct feedback, then get it to work. One of the interesting things about Menlo innovations projects, cause they're developing customer software, none of it's off the shelf. And they, if they do a one year project in the 52nd week, the only thing they have to get right is one week of work because 51 weeks of work works perfectly.So there's basically zero, almost zero rework and they have a hundred percent customer satisfaction. The customer takes the software out of the box and they just start using it.. [00:33:37] Joe Krebs: I want to thank you Jeff for some insights on the second edition of the Toyota Way. If the second edition is It's only somewhat successful as the first edition in terms of sales of books.Thousands of books will be sold and thousands of readers out there will be exposed to scientific thinking and it's a good thing through your materials. I want to thank you for that. And also, yeah, just like, to everybody out there, if you are interested go to the show pages, I'm going to list Jeff's books and obviously ways of learning about Kata in a way to apply that in the agile context, I have some additional pointers here of where to go, what to do first and second, and obviously the Kata Bookshelf is growing thanks to you, Jeff, too, and and many more ways to learn about scientific thinking.Thank you, Jeff. [00:34:27] Jeffrey Liker: You're welcome. It's my pleasure, Joe. Take care then.

The Real Wine Show is a fun and irreverant take on a wine trivia game show that's all about the amazing and fascinating people who share the world of wine! Each episode has two segments: the first is a wine news challenge, where the panelists have to decide whether the hosts' news stories are true or false, and the second segment is an emotive blind tasting, where instead of using the typical descriptors (e.g. blackberry, oak, leather), the panelists are asked to talk about the wine based on how it makes them feel, or if the wine were a person, what kind of person would it be. In this episode, joining your hosts Matt Kuhr and Chaad Thomas are: Kristie Brablec, owner of Zingerman's Food Tours and of Ground Control Wine retail shop here in Ann Arbor. Chris Hunter, who runs the Detroit airport VinoVolo wine bar. Elisa Weber, founder of Little Guy Wine Company wine wholesale distributor. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/realwineshow/message

This week, we take a look back at the conversations we had last year about the many rewards and responsibilities of business ownership, highlighting some of our happiest, smartest, funniest, and most difficult exchanges from the past year. Along the way, we discuss topics such as escalating salary demands, how much profit a business should make, a new way to sell a business, the problems with ESOPs, how to sell cookies on LinkedIn, breaking a million dollars in annual revenue, escaping the valley of death, and the pain of having to fire a long-time employee. There aren't many places where you can hear entrepreneurs talk about the real-life problems they are confronting right now, today, as they happen—with no guarantee of a happy ending. But those are the conversations I have every week with Paul Downs of Paul Downs Cabinetmakers, Shawn Busse of Kinesis, Jay Goltz of Artists Frame Service, Mel Gravely of Triversity Construction, Jennifer Kerhin of SB Expos & Events, Liz Picarazzi of Citibin, Jaci Russo of BrandRusso, Sarah Segal of Segal Communications, William Vanderbloemen of Vanderbloemen Search Group, Dana White of a soon-to-be-named successor to Paralee Boyd, and Laura Zander of Jimmy Beans Wool.In this episode, we also highlight several appearances by special guests who stopped by in 2023 to discuss their journeys, including Muhammad Abdul-Hadi of Down North Pizza, Jeff Braverman of Nuts.com, Michael Brown of Teamshares, Brad Herrmann of Text-Em-All, Grayson Hogard of Grove Cookie Company, Lance Tyson of the Tyson Group, and Ari Weinzweig of Zingerman's. If listening to one of these highlights makes you want to go back and listen to the full episode, that can be done most easily by going to 21hats.com. There you'll find a transcript of this episode with links to all of the episodes we sample.

Tilo Schwarz is a leadership coach, former plant manager and co-founder of the Campus for Leaders at the University of Applied Science Ansbach. He helps managers to successfully lead change and empower their teams for improvement, adaptiveness, and superior results. During his time as a plant manager at a renowned German power-tool manufacturer, he started practicing Toyota Kata with his management team as part of Mike Rother's groundbreaking research in 2006. By doing so, Tilo and his team established continuous improvement as a daily routine throughout all processes and areas of the plant. That led to winning the A. T. Kearny operational excellence competition "Factory of the Year" and a WHU/INSEAD Industrial Excellence Award. Tilo is the author of several books on coaching and Toyota Kata.Jeffrey K. Liker is Professor Emeritus, Industrial and Operations Engineering at The University of Michigan and President of Liker Lean Advisors, LLC. He is the author of the best-selling book, The Toyota Way, Second Edition, and has coauthored nine other books about Toyota including The Toyota Way to Service Excellence and The Toyota Way to Lean Leadership. His graphic novel with Eduardo Lander and Tom Root tells the story of lean transformation at a mail-order company: Lean in a High-Variability Business. A more compact graphic novel, Engaging the Team at Zingerman's Mail Order, illustrates how Kata unleashed the creativity of their team. His articles and books have won thirteen Shingo Prizes for Research Excellence. He was inducted into the Association of Manufacturing Excellence Hall of Fame and the Shingo Academy.Link to claim CME credit: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3DXCFW3CME credit is available for up to 3 years after the stated release dateContact CEOD@bmhcc.org if you have any questions about claiming credit.

Zach Berg grew up in Metro Detroit. He is a product of the Jewish community and found his love of food at a young age. He began his career at the young age of 13 helping kosher catering companies. After cooking his way through high school and college Zach got a job at Zingerman's Deli. Here his love of food blossomed and refined. After working at Zingerman's Zach moved out West to California to complete his Culinary training at the CIA in Napa Valley. Zach opened Mongers' Provisions in Michigan with his life long friend Will Werner in 2017 and has been providing Detroit with best cheese, chocolate, and charcuterie ever since. Connect with Jon Dwoskin: Twitter: @jdwoskin Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.dwoskin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejondwoskinexperience/ Website: https://jondwoskin.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jondwoskin/ Email: jon@jondwoskin.com Get Jon's Book: The Think Big Movement: Grow your business big. Very Big!   Connect with Zach Berg: Website: Mongersprovisions.com Twitter:  https://www.twitter.com/mobileberg Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/cheesemonger_zach_berg LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/zachary-berg-acs-ccp-08916a10a/ Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/zachary.h.berg *E – explicit language may be used in this podcast.

It all started with a three-page vision statement for Joey Zwillinger and his company, Allbirds, which is revolutionizing the footwear industry with its eco-friendly and sustainable products. Joey and his co-founder Tim Brown set out to emulate nature's brilliant design skills by creating the now iconic Wool Runner, a shoe made from Merino wool, and to create a sustainable global company in the process. In this episode, the latest in a limited series sponsored by Shopify, Joey shares some of the challenges that Allbirds faced, the technology that transformed their direct-to-consumer business into a global brand, and how to align mission with profitability.   Joey Zwillinger is the CEO and Co-Founder of Allbirds, which uses wool to create sustainable footwear. He has long been passionate about making things from renewable resources, which led him to start Allbirds with New Zealander Tim Brown and begin tackling sustainability issues in the footwear industry. Working together, Tim and Joey crafted a revolutionary wool fabric made specifically for footwear, resulting in an entirely new category of shoes inspired by natural materials.   In this episode, Hala and Joey will discuss: - How competitive sports translates into business - Finding a career with meaning and impact - The importance of constraints to creativity - Aligning your mission and profitability - Learning innovation from nature - Founding a purpose-focused company - Launching Allbirds with the Shopify platform - The secrets to a million-dollar launch - Breaking through in a noisy marketplace - And other topics…   Joey Zwillinger is the CEO and Co-Founder of Allbirds, which uses wool to create sustainable footwear. Prior to co-founding Allbirds, he spent six years at biotech firm Terravia (formerly Solazyme, Inc.) leading its renewable chemical business, developing and selling high-performance algae-based chemicals into various industries such as CPG, personal care, and industrials. He has long been passionate about making things from renewable resources, which led him to start Allbirds with New Zealander Tim Brown and begin tackling sustainability issues in the footwear industry.    Resources Mentioned:  Joey's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jzwillinger/ Allbirds Website: https://www.Allbirds.com/ Allbirds Twitter: https://twitter.com/Allbirds Allbirds Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Allbirds/ Allbirds Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/weareAllbirds  Zingerman's Deli's Mission and Guiding Principles: https://www.zingermanscommunity.com/about-us/mission-guiding-principles/ Why and How Visioning Works by Ari Weinzweig, founder of Zingerman's Deli: https://www.zingtrain.com/article/why-and-how-visioning-works/   LinkedIn Secrets Masterclass, Have Job Security For Life: Use code ‘podcast' for 30% off at yapmedia.io/course.   Sponsored By: Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at youngandprofiting.co/shopify Greenlight - Sign up for Greenlight today and get your first month free when you go to greenlight.com/yap MasterClass - Get 15% off right now at youngandprofiting.co/masterclass Relay - Sign up for FREE! Go to relayfi.com/profiting **Relay is a financial technology company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services and FDIC insurance provided through Evolve Bank & Trust and Thread Bank; Members FDIC. The Relay Visa® Debit Card is issued by Thread Bank pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. and may be used everywhere Visa® debit cards are accepted.   More About Young and Profiting Download Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com  Get Sponsorship Deals - youngandprofiting.com/sponsorships Leave a Review -  ratethispodcast.com/yap Watch Videos - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting   Follow Hala Taha LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/ TikTok - tiktok.com/@yapwithhala Twitter - twitter.com/yapwithhala   Learn more about YAP Media Agency Services - yapmedia.io/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode, we have Cody Hopkins who is the CEO and Founding Farmer at Grass Roots Farmers' Cooperative. Grass Roots is supporting regenerative agriculture with its 7-species lineup of meat products. In this episode, we learn why Cody was inspired to start the Co-Op after being a small-scale poultry farmer, what makes their business model and corporate structure unique, and how Heifer International and Heifer USA have been important partners along the way. Episode Highlights:

When we think about “authentic” food experiences – what are we really explicitly looking for? Oftentimes the idea of authenticity can be exoticized to represent a particular type of ethnic cuisine at a specific time – or someone's version of it. But in a diasporic world, there are ways to create a menu and recipes that reflect both local and seasonal food availability in a way that continues to weave food stories from the past into present life. My guest this week is someone who is exceptionally good at blending the past and present into her dining experiences, Chef Ji Hye Kim. She is the chef and managing partner of MISS KIM in Ann Arbor, MI. Ji Hye is inspired by her ancestors and their stories told through ancient Korean cookbooks, as well as her farmer neighbors in Michigan. Miss Kim's food is simple and good, with the menu dictated by seasonality and locality following Korean culinary traditions. Ji Hye grew up in Seoul, Korea and immigrated to the States at the age of 13. After graduating from the University of Michigan and a successful career in hospital administration, Ji Hye switched to the hospitality industry in 2008. Having trained at various Zingerman's businesses and Rome Sustainable Food Project, she ran an Asian street food cart before opening a brick and mortar location in 2016. As well as providing convivial service and delicious food, Miss Kim has been committed to doing away with tipped credit and paying a fair wage to all staff since opening. Ji Hye is a semifinalist for the James Beard Award Best Chef Great Lakes in 2020. In the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic and as independent restaurants across the country are at risk, she was admitted to and participated in the James Beard Chef Boot Camp for Policy Change and Food Lab Detroit's Fellowship for Change in Food and Labor. Recently Ji Hye was chosen as one of Best New Chefs 2021 by Food & Wine. She believes that service is an honorable profession and envisions a more delectable, sustainable, and equitable future for the industry. She's on the show today to talk about her experiences entering the culinary world at a “later” age (it's really not that late), and how she's making space in her restaurants for new ways to think about food, community, and seasonality. Learn More about Ji Hye Kim:  MISS KIM Restaurant: https://misskimannarbor.com/  Miss Kim Instagram: @misskimannarbor Personal Instagram: @chefjihyekim

Cottage cheese, pimento cheese, and us bringing our trademark cheese???Cottage cheese—"whey cool," per the WSJ; a forever classic, per us. Skip the TikTok recipes and try this savory Bon Appétit salad or this (also BA) horseradish dip. If you're in NYC, get yourself to Dimes for the breakfast Papaya D'Lite. (Somehow related: charred Mexican zucchini recipe.)Calling all pimento cheeseheads: We rec Callie's and Zingerman's, wanna try this NYT Cooking frittata, and got a real history lesson from Serious Eats. It's a life-hackathon, and the winners are the sticker produce thing, Option-Shift-Command-V and keeping stain remover in the bedroom (see also: Miss Mouth's, savon de Marseille, and Soak).All hail long vacation lunches! If you happen to be in Paris, get yourself to Glou and Mokonuts.Some community Thingies submitted via our Instagram: Taylor Swift Lyric Sporcles, Famous Amos cookies (um, this, ℅ the History Channel!), and the Nili Lotan Brady tee (file under: regrettably worth it). What's regrettably worth it in your life? Do you have a family apple? Share with us at 833-632-5463, podcast@athingortwohq.com, or @athingortwohq—or join our Geneva! And for more recommendations, try out a Secret Menu membership.This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Treat your hair to Nutrafol. Take $15 off your first month's subscription with the code ATHINGORTWO.Find more weeknight dinner recipes at Pillsbury.com. Get your groceries with Thrive Market and take 30% off your first order plus snag a free $60 gift when you use our link.YAY.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.