The Self-Connection Podcast

This is an interview between Tim Sitt and Linda Lucas, Program Director at the Satir Institute of the Pacific (SIP), about Tim's work and experience with Virginia Satir's work. We cover a variety of topics such as the impact of Virginia's work and impact, Congruence, Melting the iceberg, and the metaphor of the tree. This conversation highlights Tim Sitt's work and an upcoming workshop titled “Melting the Iceberg.” which you can learn more about through the link below: https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/ Satir Institute of the Pacific Facebook https://www.facebook.com/satirinstituteofthepacific Instagram https://www.instagram.com/satirinstitute/ The Satir Institute also offers free monthly community support meetings: https://satirpacific.org/event/sip-free-community-of-support-meetings/ 0-10:00: Self-Connection Meditation 11:00 attempting to reconcile the level of hierarchy and seed. “Our differences are opportunities for growth.” Tim and Linda experienced disagreement and had the opportunity to practice what we had mutually learned about Virginia Satir's work to help us reconcile those differences. 17:07 How did Virginia Satir's work impact your life? 21:15 What does Virginia's work have to offer people today? 23:55 we need new concepts to point to phenomenon and updating language to better point to the aliveness of Virginia's work. 26:00 a discussion about congruence. Learning to value your nos. 28:25 The metaphor of the tree. 30:15 Virginia writings on Congruence. The universality of human beings which guarantee similarity and differences. 34:00 - 38:20 til What Tim means by ‘melting the iceberg?”43:00 a stronger theoretical frame will help people understand Virginia work and to take risks towards growth 45:23 Virginia's discussion of the pot highlights a time where she defines self-esteem as the content of our consciousness. It is important to remember that the Self is more the space of the container rather than any specific content held within which can change or transform. 46:47 What can communities to express congruence? 48:50 the importance of creating healthy organizations. Melting the Iceberg Workshop by Tim Sitt Hosted by the Satir Institute of the Pacfiic https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/

Victor Yalom, PhD, is the Founder, Director of Content and Resident Cartoonist of Psychotherapy.net. He maintained a full-time practice psychology practice in San Francisco for over 25 years, and currently continues to see a small handful of clients, as well as leading psychotherapy and consultation groups. He has conducted workshops in existential-humanistic and group therapy in the US, Mexico, and China. He has produced over 100 training videos in the field of psychotherapy and continues to be inspired the many master therapists he has been privileged to work with, including existential-humanistic psychologist James Bugental, and his father Irvin Yalom. In his spare time he paints, creates metal sculptures, and tries to improve his table tennis game. More information on Victor and his artwork is at sfpsychologist.com.Please visit www.psychotherapy.net to view the wonderful resources they have there which include over 300 videos of the prominent psychotherapist of the past and present. Think Netflix but for psychotherapist. You can save $100 dollars off an annual memberships at psychotherapy.net with the discount code : connection100Rather than having a set agenda for the podcast, Victor offered to have an open ended conversation with me and to explore and learn together, which was very exciting for me. Since the podcast is about connection it was fitting for us to explore topics related to psychotherapy as the content that served as the context for learning about and with each other. We start the discussion with me sharing my here and now experience of feeling nervous to speak with him, which is very unusual. I decide to share this straight away and Victor compassionately invites me to explore my experience together. 2:00 Victor shares the common expectation that a therapist will take away or reduce the experience they are having. Instead he points out that we can be with our experience and learn from it. 3:00 Tim express gratitude for Victor's work in making Virginia Satir's work available on video and subsequent work with other master therapists. 8:10 Victor reflects that he notices so much in what he's hearing and noticing with what Tim's shared that in therapeutic context would be available. He feels that psychotherapy can be a creative artful process.10:30 Tim poses the question of what aspects of therapeutic skills are relevant for day to day intimate and connective conversations to Victor. 12:27 Victor reflects that he often asks clients to reflect on what's happening for them at the head level and heart level. He suggests slowing down and tuning into ourselves and the other person. Attending to the words , and facial expressions of the other person as well as one's own body and feelings. 18:40 We talk about what ‘here and now' means in context of group and individual therapy. Victor shares that he is feeling engaged, and in flow and aware of some vulnerability and a desire to share something of use to the audience. 21:45 Tim asks about Victor's connection to James Bugental who was a Humanistic existential psychologist. Victor shares about his meeting and experiences of training with James. . 27:30 Victor reflects on his learnings with James Bugental. He demonstrates and differentiates some of the ideas and techniques from James Bugental's work such as searching that make it different from normal day to day conversations.32:20 One of the most powerful words he would say was , “And...” rather than letting the conversation be a ping pong match. It reinforces and introduces the idea that there's always more. This is one of things James used to say, “There's always more.” Each person is an arena of endless exploration.34:00 Victor experiential explores his emotions that come up upon his reflects on his relationships with James Bugental. 37:50 Tim shares a quote from James Bugental “ But early on l wanted to change her implicit sense of her task from telling me about herself to expressing herself. That's such an important difference. Then she makes herself an object of description. We're not dealing with a living person. lnformation about her. .. l don't like to get a lot of information about a client in advance. l want to know are they're reasonably able to maintain, and reality testing is all right, that sort of thing. But too much information will just cloud the screen for me. l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. To discover this unique person. And that sounds very nice and humanistic, and it is. But the real value is, that way l get to know the livingperson, not about a person who has that name.”39:00 Victor reflects on the therapist role in helping the client to not objectify themselves but to enter more deeply in their experience and to be present (“search process”) 42:00 James Bugental also talked about ‘resistance' which is resistance to life. These are coping patterns created for survival, defense mechanisms. They work for us but also limit us. Examples, intellectualizing, or mocking oneself, or hiding emotions. Helping clients become more flexible with their coping patterns.47:00 “inclusion not amputation” another James Bugental quote . He also talked about the co-occuring counter balancing energies of support and encouragement or the ‘backstop' that urges them forward. 50: 30 Tim reads a quote by Rollo May and asks for Victors reflections. “....and the problem is that psychotherapy becomes more and more a system of gimmicks. People have special ways of doing their own therapy. They learn which particular buttons to push. They're taught various techniques by which they can, so that they can at least cure this isolated symptom or that. And that wasn't the purpose at all, of Freud and Jung and the rest of the really great men who began our field. Their purpose was to make the unconscious conscious. And that's a great--there's a great deal of difference between them.This was what Freud was setting out to do. It's what Jung is trying to do. It's what Adler and Rank did. These people never talked about these gimmicks. It just didn't interest them. What did interest them was making a new person. You see, the new possibilities come up. Then you have--then you change the person. Otherwise, you change only the way he behaves, only the way he approaches this or that incidental problem. The problem's going to change in six months when he'll be back again for some more so-called therapy.” -Rollo May52:00 Victor reflects on some of the context surrounding more technique based therapies and the importance of therapist reflecting on their use of self, to sit with difficult emotions, not necessarily always needing to ‘do' something to the client. The ability to sit with clients and to be with their emotions. 58:32 Victor shares about his orientation and perspective towards psychotherapy.1:03:30 We explore the words. “Self-Connection”

I explore two metaphors to simultaneously hold a space for happiness in the temporary sense which occurs at the level of ego and roles and a related dimension of being, our roots, where the existential connection to Self allows for a grounding in our humanity that does not depend on external rewards to be valuable or worthy.When we can return to our Self, the ground of Being, we let go of attachment to things and material happiness. We reclaim our projected energy and we enter into a state of silence where we are not bought into a delusion of happiness.

In this podcast interview, I have the pleasure of speaking with both Sharon Loeschen and John Banmen. Two prominent leaders and teachers of the Satir Model. Today we explore the topic of context.Sharon has over 4 decades of experience as a psychotherapist, teacher, and trainer. She is past president of the Virgiania Satir global net work and uses the Satir Growth Model to facilitate learning and healing. She has developed the Satir Coaching and Mentoring Certification program which is being well received around the world. You can learn more about her by visiting Satirglobal.org She has authored several books: Enriching Your Relationship with Yourself and Others: https://satirglobal.org/product/enriching-your-relationship-with-yourself-and-others/Choosing Your Life Story: Inspirational Stories of Transformations from the Streets of South Central Los Angeles: https://satirglobal.org/product/choosing-your-life-storyJohn Banmen is one of the foremost experts and teachers of the Satir model. He co-authored the book The Satir Model: Family therapy and beyond and has written, edited many many other books related to Virginia Satir's work. He was an instructor, associate and Adjunct professor at the university of British Columbia for 21 years. As well as an honorary associate professor at the University of Hong Kong (2000-2004). He has created training programs in dozens of countries in Asia, Europe South and North America. He provides supervision for counselors, psychotherapist and family therapist. I have the honor and privilege of being able to call both of these wonderful people, friends and mentors.For background, Virginia Satir was one of the founding figures in family therapy. She was born in 1916 and died in 1988. Her model of therapy has had a major impact on the field of psychotherapy and other fields to this day. Her way of working emphasizes a conscious awareness of how we use ourselves in therapy, the incorporation of the body in the process of therapy, she would have people standing up sculpting their family dynamic with stances, she could emphasis the need for people to orient their bodies, eyes and even touch while communicating, she created dynamic and effective processes for transformational change such as parts party which is similar to internal family systems and family reconstruction which we will talk a bit about in the conversation. Virginia Satir is a giant int he field of therapy , family therapy, couples therapy. Learning about her work has formed the foundation of how I approach life as human being and in all my professional roles as a therapist, writer.If you are interested in learning more , I recommend visiting satirglobal.org and reading some other books like : the new peoplemaking, making contact, conjoint family therapy

3:00 John Banmen begins by reflecting on Virginia's use of the word ‘wholeness'. He describes feeling that there is more to what she meant with wholeness. David Bohm talks about a larger, universal wholeness; being a part of the universe.4:30 Wholeness what does it mean? On one level, wholeness is the appreciation of worth in each person. This may have been an initial first step of valuing all people regardless of age, sex or race as equal in human value.John proposes that we may be all connected to a universal energy.What does it mean to be whole? What does it mean to have space?Space is important to pay attention to not just the things that fill in the space.What is between ? In the silence? Between the notes?11:00 Physics is concerned with viewing the world either as particles or waves. Tim draws a comparison to forms of consciousness being particle-like such as thoughts, feelings, perceptions, expectations and the aspect of consciousness which is more fluid and formless.13:00 Virginia Satir emphasized “and...” not either ...or....John makes the point that we need to differentiate first before we can connect and integrate.John feels that we may fixate too much on individuality or individuation and need to keep moving towards a greater integration to a larger whole.17:00 Tim asks “Why is important to be in touch with wholeness that is universal?”John Banmen feels it is a natural process to discovery that we are more than what we think we are.Divisions lead to conflict. The reality of wholeness may help us reduce our conflicts and move towards peace.20:00 Tim asks John about his inside experience of wholeness. John describes there is a place beyond thinking where there is an experience of ‘oneness'. This is a connection to the universe.Oneness is wholeness. As you elevate about thought and experience oneness, John describes naturally letting go of divisions and experiencing oneness with other people.23:00 Distinction between thought and thinking... We discuss thoughts as formed thoughts that are dead conclusions as compared to thinking which is vital, exploratory and alive.26:30 John talks about being able to connect at different levels which could be physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual. How can we connect at the total picture of life...love, acceptance compassionate...these have an emotional component but they are transcendent energies or consciousness...a person can intentional meditate on an energy like loving-kindness to change the quality of energy in their mind.31:30 An energy of conscious that is vital was what Virginia was in touch with and in touch with the life force in others.32:00 To be congruent is to be in tune with I AM: Self energy. John mentions that feeling great about Carl Rogers, but being with Virginia John felt in touch with his own ‘greatness'. He described feeling elevated , at a higher vibration, with Virginia simply through her raising one's congruence simply by being present.Virginia was in a different state of consciousness that helped elevate others.John describes Virginia as being very generous with sharing her energy and shining her light with others.37:00 Sharing a light. Virginia felt that we are each a light.40:00 John expresses the importance of realizing that we are spirit. John talks about acknowledging that we are already whole ; that we are it.42:30 Wholeness on different levels : within myself, with others, with the universe. According to John, Wholeness has to do with energy, spirit of a deeper level than merely the physical. John encourages depth of the energy. Tim introduces consciousness.45:00 Our consciousness can connect; John points to the possibility that as much as they can connect and that they might be the part of the same whole.When we have specific thoughts, specific forms of consciousness, we can begin to identify with that and begin to create separations in our mind that then takes away from the perception or the experience of wholeness.Is the energy of wholeness what allows us to transcend the limitations of our current forms?Is this what allows us to connect? Letting go of attachments allows for peace.47:00 Tim shares about the particles of emotions and how that can be held within a larger energy of peace , love and compassion and this is what helps contain and transform the forms.49:30 Can we experience our particularized thought and our universality at the same time?51:00 When we let go of our rigid attachment to time what becomes available to us? Is time managing us or are we managing time? We discuss how our expansion of time can help us transcend our rigid ways of using time dictated by expectations, rules, contexts.56:30 Cosmic wholeness. This is a term used to remind us that we are more than what we are at the level of perception, feelings, personal identity.58:10 What happens to consciousness when the body dies? Virginia talked about 4 levels of ‘birthing'.. Each representing a higher level of consciousness and this maybe a movement towards greater wholeness. The whole whole?1:03 John talks about Virginia's ability to talk to the masses by offering something at the concrete behavioral change level and all the way to cosmic level. John shares Virginia as a teacher teaching many different aged children in the class and that her work supports the development of consciousness at the level where people are. John experienced Virginia as expressing the many layers simultaneously in her teachings.1:08 Tim shares the connection the cosmic wholeness would inform all the various contexts and forms relevant to the audience. Perhaps being in touch with one's wholeness helps people be in touch with their wholeness because after all it is the same.The therapist can lead the process by being in touch with the deeper levels of wholeness, yearnings, that the client may or may not be aware of consciously but experiences. This is an important factors in creating a healing connection/relationship.1:14 John emphasizes the importance of attuning to the level of consciousness where the client is living and trying to help them elevate them towards a higher level.1:18 John reflects on the challenge and enjoyment of putting into words the experience and the energy of wholeness.1:22 What facilitates human growth and development? What are the conclusions that block the movement of life and energy within?

Leonie Flamand Gallant is Metis. she grew up in a small French rural community in Saskatchewan. Her mom was French from Montreal and her Dad was Cree and French from Manitoba . She is the 6 child in a family of ten children. Being Metis was not spoken of in her family, her knowing of her heritage came from being called “half breed “ when entered school. In her work with Virginia she recovered her heritage both Cree and French. The Metis people of Canada have a very rich and interesting story of how colonialism affected their lives.Leona made a decision to learn from the masters in the profession of working with people, Virgina Satir and Maria Gomori were at the forefront of her education working in the helping field. She was a stay at home Mom raising four children for the first ten years of her adult life, the next ten was working and training in the profession shew anted to be a part of. In her profession she worked as a drug and alcohol counsellor, a stopping the violence counsellor [ working with historical sexual abuse], from 1992 to 2000 she facilitated a counsellor training program that trained adult learners to work with Alcohol and drug and family development in a Native friendship center Tillicum Lelum in Nanaimo BC. Their program was Satir based and every person as part of their training did their own family reconstruction which she facilitated. In 2000 she created her own business and contracted with Tellicum lelum the Satir part of the training program as part of herbusiness. She is now still involved with Satir work in her 81st year of her amazing life.2:14 We begin a meditation6:41 Leona and Tim begin the interview. Leona talks about living with no resistance and openness.She describes feeling open and then when she's around someone who is afraid and the feeling of fear comes in. She gives herself permission to feel what comes up. She recognize that she doesn't have to go back to where she was but to stay long enough for something else to come so she can see the person to in front of her..10:26 She describes status quo all the ways of how she learned to be by the family and the culture. Essentially all behavioral patterns. If we allow ourselves to feel then we can have choice. What is present in this moment? Leona consciously chooses not to battle the pattern but to engage it with acceptance and non judgment.13:00 Leona notices anothers resistance and then focuses on her own resistance and this leads to connection...touching somehow albeit not literally a physical touch.14:20 Congruent is a living word meaning a word that she will constantly learning about them and with them. Can we treat words as living things. Leona talks about the importance of accepting one's experience as human with no resistance.16:00 Leona talks about her experience of shame about being herself and being Metis in her early life. Virginia talked to her about the wonderful Metis people. The experience of total acceptance from Virginia helped transformed. She describes that she was walking into an energy field where she felt good inside.. ..Virginia felt so warm that it was impossible not to feel warm inside yourself.“Journey to Self” was the name of the training she did in 1980.22:00 She did parts party, family mapping, family story and other experiences helped her transform her experience of being Metis as a wealth/resources.25:00 Leona experienced herself dissociate in the beginning of the training and Virginia had her stand on stool and she connected with her and it helped her land back in her body.She noticed that her changing her relationship to herself.28:00 Leona talks about Family Reconstruction , which is a major vehicle for change in the Satir Model.31:00 She talks about the counsellor training program she was part of running and the use of Virginia's work and her various tools. Leona shares that ‘hearing your own story is healing'33:00 Leona would work with people to get the story of the mother and the father's story and sculpt each. What was happening in the world when people were born, growing up, how did ht mother and father learn to parent, how did they meet, what happened in school, what happened in the community they lived in,36:00 What did a person learn through the events, histories that are buried deep within the person. The learnings that created the patterns. This was an opportunity to see yourself and parents in a different light and to answer the question of ‘how come?' This is the engagement with the wholeness of life, of full humanness.39:30 Leona talks about understanding of how a person grows up and why you learned the coping that you have learned. This creates a hopeful energy because if you can understand that you learned to do what you; then you can realize you can unlearn the old and learn something new.41:00 Self and Essence are both the same and different. Leona describes the continual movement of learning to love yourself. To learn to love period. Leona uses the metaphor of baking bread. That sometimes we bake bread and it falls flat and to be hopeful about the process of learning what went wrong and learning to enjoy what's there.Essence is about enjoying what is there; the total moment.42:24 Leona connects the word self to memory and identity and essence as beyond memory and understanding...that is the transcendent. She describes playing between the memory and the essence and the wholeness of the separate and connected as a whole.45:00 Tim reflects on his experience of connecting self and of essence being with Leona and his appreciation of her.46:30 Leona talks about Brian Swimme. “We live in the context of the universe” How big is our learning capacity when we consider the vastness of the universe?49:00 Words are important. Words are pointers to the essence and are like doorway into the vast meanings of the word.“We're not caught up to Virginia” Leona says.50:50 Leona's wish for growth and peace in the world is in our ability to be with fear in a non-destructive way with myself, with family, with community. Fear has a face a feeling, a power. How to be with that power that brings forth love and not more fear. “How can I embrace fear with love?” Leona asks.I can learn to be with my fear. This is a skill that can be learned. Maybe the fear yeast for some growth. IF we can encapsulate our fear with love , we can grow and learn.

01:00 Laura describes the context of how Virginis'a family camps beganSeveral therapist were requesting that Virginia work with their families and the idea came to work in a camp setting with hiking.Family camps began in 1976.Laura started leading the camps in 1984 up until 3 years ago.5:30 Virginai called her camp an experiment. If a week a year, could create change that could last.6:00 Russell talked about meeting Virginia running a conference of 60 peopleRussell noticed that people were ‘hooking up' and having relationships although they were married and that he felt this was not promoting family. Virginia told him about family camp which was effort for the therapist to learn with their families.7:40 Laura describes the celebration of life transitions, births, marriages, the beginning of relationships. Camp was a place to practice open communication which nurtured and strengthened family life.9:00 Laura describes the use of talking circles between teens and parents. The outer ring were focused on holding a space and listening (e.g. the teens) and then to engage with each after hearing the inner circle conversation first.11:30 there was a camp committee that was formed which took the pressure of running the camp off the facilitators.12:30 Laura describes the committee meetings that occur 3 times a year which were also very supportive element of the camp as a whole.14:30 People would do a piece of work in front of the group as part of a demonstration. Thereafter people could help support that person regarding that piece of work during the daily interactions of the camp.16:15 Laura describes the ingredients that made the camp a nurturing community. People became attached and members would become part of the leadership. Russell talked about it's focus on congruence, growth , self-esteem, communication. The community would support people having difficulty (e.g., how to not use physical fights). Meditation and community meetings help them feel in touch with themselves and to feel seen.19:20 The work done in front of the group create a strong intimacy throughout the camp which is unusual for other camps. People would connect through the vulnerability that they witnessed and they would share their own vulnerability.People would request time to sort through some challenges they were having.21:00 the camp would start with a temperature reading. People could say what they felt and really wanted...e.g. Appreciations..hopes and wishes...complaints...22:00 There were teen groups, womens,/men's group, parents , young adults... These were various spaces for people to share and process their experiences.Evenings was a time for the whole group to gather and to have leisure time together.24:40 Tim asks what elements of Virginia's work were taught explicitly.The campers would learn about the five freedoms, the coping stances. They would make use of the tools : parts party and elements of family reconstruction.26:50 Congruent communication, family systems/maps, were some of the key teachings in the camp.28:30 Being in nature and away from technology is an important ingredient of camp for people to focus on themselves.30:00 There was a representative from each group: young adult, couples, elders, youth...they would report what the facilitators would need to know about the dynamic within these subgroups.31:10 In the beginning, Virginia did a lot of the leading of the camp herself. There was an important transition from her leadership to a committee.The values of the camp were congruence and communication. That each person had to earn their own power. To be in charge of your own growth.35:00 Mentorship. Russell describes how mentorship took place within the camp.38:20 “Becoming a peer with your parents” as a point of maturity for the teens and young adults in the camp. The children had to find a way to grow that was not dictated by the parents, that the children would own their own voice.39:00 Each person was encouraged to have their own voice especially with their parents.41:00 We discuss how people balanced role function with connection to Self. Everyone took on jobs to create a sense of connection and equality among all people. The focus was on making camp work and that all needed to contribute.44:00 Laura talked about how camp supported her family and the growth of their communication. Russell talked about his experience of having his family as part of the camp and the memories that were created.47:00 Russell feels that family camp is the best expression of Virginia work where people could practice what she taught.49:00 Tim asks about boundaries as fascilitators with their family among the larger group.Russell talked about how living together in camp took away from the role of therapist and being seen as a fellow camper.54:00 We talk about the missing element of community and the opportunity that the camp gives of feeling known and seen. Laura describes Virginia's vision that raising consciousness and the creation of community were related and parallel goals.57:00 Laura talks about facilitation meetings.59:20 The expansion of consciousness is related to the expansion and enriching of our communities.

Here's one quote from Laura Dodson:“Transformation is a change in the entire way of being; how your relate to life. The transformation relate to changes in attitudes that live deep inside of us like: compassion and connection to our common humanity.”2:30 Laura shares her experience of Virginia was that she was able to distill complex ideas with simple words and movements and sculpts that transcended specific cultures. Virginia's aim was to change the consciousness in the world. Her aim was to be understandable and useable.Carl Jung moved from Freudian model to a more growth model. He saw symptoms as a block in the flow of growth that we all encounter. Virginia saw things this way too.5:50 Carl Jung had a deep respect for each individual as did Virginia. They respected the unique individual and their ability to adapt, grow and change.6:40 Tim asks what is the difference between a family therapist and a Jungian analyst. Jung was interested in the unconscious of the individual. Jung was not looking at family systems the individual developed within. Virginia saw an individual embedded within multiple layers of systems: family, cultural, history of humanity.8:30 Tim asks what each thinker would have benefited from the other. Laura feels Jung would've benefited from systems's thinking and Satir would've come to the spiritual aspects of being which she got to eventually. She recognized the spiritual base in the 80s.9:30 the cycle of death and rebirth comes from Jung. Virginia didn't look at death as much as she looked at birt. The movement towards integration and wholeness come from Virginia's work. Laura didn't feel that Jung walked us through the steps of transformation. Virginia clarified those steps. Eg., we had to tell the truth without blaming., have courage, have humility, compassion for self and other. Jung talked about increased consciousness. Focusing on what one had learned and practicing, forgiving. Laura found that Virginia emphasized the importance of forgiveness for growth that was not in Jung's work.12:00 Jung took what came in dreams and followed that. He didn't clarify steps like Virginia didTo help us move from survival coping to growth. Laura said that she was much more connected to her unconscious and her dreams which helped direct her life. Laura describes there being riches in the unconscious.14:00 Change is an ongoing process that never ends throughout life. Our hope is that we can move through the circle more rapidly. Foreign elements are bound to happen leading to crisis.Dismembering is the feeling of being pulled apart, which comes Jung's thinking.15:50 We begin with a sense of equilibrium, calmness, centeredness. A foreign element comes and it separates us from ourselves. We feel abandoned, wounded, betrayed. It's inevitable. Disemembering occurs.Then liminality occurs. You can't go back but you don't know how to move forward. You feel confused and afraid.We fall into defensive mechanisms. For example denial as a coping is adaptive initially and unders certain conditions. Projection, denial, depression, suidcidal...it's the experience of deflation of energy. Deflation is a loss of sense of who you are. Loneliness and feeling lost. We are barely coping.We are in the dark night of the soul.What is required for change is the numinous experience, the experience of light. Something that would allow you to see things from another angle.21:32 “The wonderful thing about the unconscious is that it wants to break through; it wants to give you light. There's something inside you that wants to give birth to a new way of seeing.But it's frightening because it's giving up the old way. Letting go. Surrender to what might come next. “22:10 dreams and talking with a friend that can add light or shift your perspective and help you see light in the darkness and experience hope. Some of Virginia's processes helped give people insight that freed them from the inside. A new way of seeing.What Virginia created in sculptures and pictures on the outside; Carl Jung followed dreams.26:00 People come to therapy at the point when they have fallen into the unknown and are seeking an experience of the numinious, of light and a wish for hope.27:00 Becoming conscious of our defense mechanisms allows us to have more choice and toLet go of unhealthy coping.28:00 Laura talks about the importance of hope and how the therapist holds hope. Laura describes the therapist usinge x-ray vision that sees the higher Self and the young vulnerable part saying “all i want to be loved” Connecting to the essence, the deep spiritual essence of the other person.31:15 Laura is confident that the unconscious will show them a way. The therapist is listening with them for guidance of where to go. The therapist needs to be willing to be surprised.Laura provides an example of listening to a client who had a dream which pointed a direction to go.36:00 you need someone to hold a space and listen and believe in you as you find your way.37:30 Laura talks about step of courage, commitment, and truth telling, facing the reality of things. Allowing ourselves to mourn for ourselves and with compassion. Joining the human race with our frailties.We walk into what we were defending against and the resources of responsibility, mourning, commitment, truthtelling (without blame) , curiosity, humility, and courage all help us walk into what we were defending against.Facing what we fear...what we hate...Our trauma/hurt....Courage is the first step, then truthtelling,, humility to join the human race.Commitment and focused on the path..Mourn what wasn't and what isn't.Laura talks about Virginia's direction of being more curious than blaming and using our detective hat.41:15 Increasing consciousness and compassion as you move through transformation and rejoining the human race and forgive yourself. You increase your connection, congruence and compassion with Self and others.Your self and your higher Self42:40 Foundational attitudes as a way of being with our experience that allows us to move through experience. E.g., commitment to become more conscious.44:30 We begin to integrate what we were falling apart about in crisis and the energy transforms.Jung used the word energy for God. Virginia used the words “Life Force” The transformation comes upon you. You can't make it happen. This is the rebirth. It comes upon us as we do these things.46:30 Energy is in constant motion. Your attitude to change allow you to walk towards it. As you walk towards it, you become more conscious of the new learnings and that brings a transformation.You can move towards light, but you can't make the energy transform.“Transformation is a change in the entire way of being; how your relate to life. The transformation relate to changes in attitudes that live deep inside of us like: compassion and connection to our common humanity.”50:30 Laura shares her experience of her pain. “I am not that pin; i am having that experience. I am more than that” She is aware of her connection to life being bigger than the pain. My existence is more than to pain. Laura describes her pain as her ‘teacher'. “I have to learn to breathe and move with it. I will learn in relation to it.”55:00 Laura talks about cultural transformation. Our culture has been inflated and ‘superior'. She talks about corona virus and some of what is going on in the world.We talk about the resources in the transformational wheel as an anchor of how we can move through these difficult times.59:15 “There's a new energy that's alive in the world today and I am part of that energy.” Virginia Satir said in reference to the evolution of consciousness and her belief in a tipping point.“To the god in me and to the god within you” we can connect and transformation can occur.

Howard Kahn is an Assistant Clinical Professor in the Child Study Center at the Yale School of Medicine, where he teaches a yearly seminar in Family Therapy and supervises psychotherapy. He has also been a Visiting Lecturer in Law at Yale Law School (2012). Dr. Kahn has maintained a private practice of Clinical Psychology in New Haven since 1970. He is a graduate of City College of New York (1961) and of the University of Rochester (PhD,1970)Howard explains his journey into therapy and transition into an awareness of the humanistic psychologies.Lou Ferman had people who were teachers of humanistic psychology. Virginia Satir was one of these trainers. Howard shares about his first experience with Virginia Satir 1969 and described her as someone who cared about your experience and only that.5:00 Howard learned from Virginia that there was a way he could be that was consonant to his being. Virginia was novel in her approach with family and how engaging communicative therapy.7:10 Howard had an experience with Virginia during a demonstration where fell into a trance with her. She asked and cared about what she was feeling. This resonated with Howard as a way of doing therapy.10:22 Howard said his connection with Virginia helped him grow his energy for intimacy. He felt supported for who he is.12:00 Howard shares about how Virginia helped him overcome his fear of public speaking.14:00 Howard said Virginia paid attention to what was going on with people, taking responsibility for themselves, how to be in relationships, but she did it in an interactive way.15:33 Communicative intimacy...Helmith Kizer”? There's a universal symptom he called ‘duplicity' people were not congruent with thoughts and feelings. He promoted encounter. When my thoughts feels and actions are in line we are congruent. When we are paying attention to each other's experience. My awareness of me, my awareness of you; your awareness of you and you're awareness of me.We communicate and share these levels. It's the attitude of I'm fully aware and interested in you. It is a readiness and willingness to provide the full benefit of your being and to connect with someone.17:40 What empowers us to be more connected? Howard shares to be in the present and to be in a flow together. Howard reflects on his own awareness of the present experience, his feelings and also our conversation. He describes it as an immediacy of experience with Virginia.21:00 the freedom to be yourself and to emerge is a healing experience. The collection of healing moments is therapy. Therapy is a part of natural life.22:51 the way we are in therapy is our natural form. That's when we are at our best.Howard shares about seeing a kid, his neighbor, who got hurt and how he went over to him. He describes the moment of contact.25:00 Our ability to accept our feelings and the moments. Howard describes his experience of being present with the boy.28:00 Howard talks about embodying theory. He talks about having an inherent valuing system (that of acceptance and compassion). This leads you to be curious and to be engaged. He talks about focusing not on fixing anything but being present.33:00 Howard reflects on the experience of the interview so far as a demonstration of being present and engaging with communicative intimacy and how important this is for healing.34:00 Howard asks Tim about his experience. We have a moment of connection.36:20 Howard describes Virginia as awake and full of love.39:30 Virginia said “I'm everyone you admire” Useful and nourishing other.You're the agent of your own action and experience. You never felt like Virginia was going to fix you. She helped you come into your own power.42:00 We live our lives in fictional finalism. Quote by Alfred Adler.45:45.What's kept you connected? Howard shares that he feels energized by meeting people.47:00 “I think you can be judicious and not judgmental” Howard shares that he gives people feedback based on his own experience.“I want to love you without clutching, appreciate you without judging, join you without invading, invite you without demanding, leave you without guilt, criticize you without blaming, and help you without insulting. If I can have the same from you, then we can truly meet and enrich each other.”― Virginia Satir52:00 We talk about Self connection and self-esteem. There's a transcendent , a communion...that is something bigger than an individuals self-concept, or feelings and thoughts about themselves. Howard talks about how we deal with the spiritual all the time. He describes the connection he felt being in the delivery room, with his wife, his baby the doctors.58:00 Self-esteem is the outcome of Self-connection..Being in a dynamic living process with each other or with life in general.1:03:00 You are a manifestation of God's will. You're experiencing and expressing yourself is transcendent work, god's work...“I'm not here to meet your expectations and you're not here to meet mine.”Howard shares the last line “if we don't it can't be helped.”“If you embrace one life, you create a universe”1:09:09 Howard trusts that people will let go of their symptoms when we focus on connecting in the ways he is expressing (of being present, listening, being yourself) Something of what we want emerges in therapy.1:13:29 Howard sees himself as a teacher of humanism. The processes that Virginia highlighted are part of the natural world. They are not specific to people or ideology.

1:32 Jennifer leads us in a self-connecting meditation5:21 Tim reads from Jennifer's book and Jennifer reflects on the word “Grace”What is helping me here at this moment right now? Can I notice my breath, the fresh air?What's sustaining my life?9:12 We need chaos in order to experience grace. Jennifer talks about the importance of pausing and being in the present moment to connect to grace.How does your grace interact with the chaos of life?Jennifer talks about how grace helps create a sense of peace and presence. She talks about the practice of taking moments of stillness and of gratitude. Putting a hand on her heart and stilling herself.Notice and appreciate that keeps going on no matter what happens.12:40 What are the thoughts, attitudes and beliefs that are connected to grace? What are the expressions of wisdom that express grace? Jennifer mentions that we have all the resources for survival and growth. Also, as human beings we do the best we can with what we know how to do.Jennifer talks about going beneath the surface of behavior and listening with curiosity for the deeper need. The need to be heard and connectedWe may have the capacity to love,but the capability occurs through learning and practise over timeImagining the iceberg is a skill that can be learned. Awareness of one's and another's feelings, perceptions, expectations and deeper still their yearnings17:52 How can we connect to our Resources? Asking yourself when do I start to react? What's happening in my body? Can I pause and take a breath? This allows us to slow down, pause, instead of going into fight or flight or freeze?Be curious about what is going on inside of you and in others?20:28 Can I own my experience? Notice what's happening in my body, feelings, what meaning am I making? Being open to alternative meaning.Some helpful questions for self-reflectionWhat else could it mean?What's happening in my feelings? What am I needing right now? What need is unmet?I can only be in charge of my response and what I am doing.23:30 Beliefs are alive. They are living when they are embodied in action. I own my experience and actions. Owning my experience and then connecting to a deep yearning that can help transform the experience. We can be in touch with peace and start to embody that.26:00 Tim asks Jennifer to make more concrete the forms of grace and peace as living energies.Jennifer talks about flow and harmony and how she experiences calmness and stillness with vitality in her body. Feeling grounded on the earth. Experiencing something greater than oneself. “I experience myself as part of a whole. “ she says.The notion of ownership may be grounding itself.I own my experience; I own my response.Anger is an emotion that projects our attention externally and it's easy to lose ourselves in the experience of anger.Tim shares Virginia's idea that parents experience having holes in them which they try to fill by bringing children into the world; those children experience/feel that they have holes. Virginia helped people understand that they were already whole, not hole-y. Being whole means that I have all the worthiness and resources within me.A grounding exercise might be to say:I own my feelings, thoughts and needsI own my responsesI can breathe and own the response that comes next..Connect to your deeper yearnings.When I connect to my yearning, for example, the peace that becomes a gift to myself and to the other.30:30 Jennifer when we are in touch with our yearnings we are much more able to be compassionate towards ourselves and others. Connecting to yearnings helps us account for ourselves, others and the larger context.32:30 Jennifer shares about Virginia's work on her life, personally and professionally. She had always felt something was missing. Learning about the foundations of Virginia's work provided a framework that was grounding for her. Whereas other models focused on different aspects of experience, Virginia's work helped Jennifer look at the full spectrum of experience.Experiential, transformational, looking at the whole system.36:00 Jennifer shares her ideas about changing our use of the word tools to vehicles for change. Focusing on the process of change. There is a dynamic fluidity to processes than tools.39:30 Jennifer shares the 5 essential elements from the Satir Model: Positively directional, the use of Self, Change focused, systemic, experiential. As long as other techniques are congruent with these 5 elements she can incorporate it. She focuses on the relational process and does not see therapy as doing something to people.41:30: What is self-connection to Jennifer and how she connects to herself. She describes herself as preparing herself to be fully present so she can connect with others. Spending some time alone perhaps in silent meditation to simply be. Jennifer emphasizes the importance of owning one's experience as separate from other people.44:40 The belief and knowing that clients have the resources to learn and survive. Jennifer doesn't burden herself with having to do something but focuses on being something and providing the conditions for the work to occur. She experiences a lot of energy and fun in that work.47:00 Jennifer encourages Self-connection to pause and to reflect on what we can be grateful for. Finding moments of grace in the face of chaos. “At this moment in time, I can breathe…I am alive…”In each moment reflecting what you can be grateful for.48:30 Tim asks how do you encourage grace and gratitude in the face of deep anxiety, depression or anger. Jennifer shares that during her husband's cancer diagnosis and treatment she was pregnant and this pushed her focus on self-care and manage her energy.Jennifer said she emphasized breathing and being in nature. Being in nature helped her feel grounded.50:33 In order to get to that place of gratitude, you need to believe that there is something to be grateful for. It's an act of faith to get there. If I have the belief that there's always something to be grateful for, then you have something to strive for. You may not be pregnant with a fetus, but you are pregnant with life and potentials in you. We need to protect the life within us and the yearnings that are desiring to come out. What if we protected our core Self to the level we would protect an unborn child?We are all pregnant with life. We need to protect our life force...When we do not honour, protect and express our life force..atrophy, destruction and suffering ensues.

1:33 John begins a meditation Connect to your breathing.Can you experience your body? What is your body telling you right now?Can you be aware of your feelings?Can you watch your thoughts? Presently, past, future?Acceptance and awareness. How do you experience yourself at this moment?John invites us to bring in a change, a positive energy of gratitude.6:50 We begin our conversation. John meets Virginia In January 1970.John's training was Rogerian where he learned to not ask questions. John observed that Virginia asked many many questions.10:25 John talked about the first workshop. They were supposed to learn about family therapy but the emphasis was on learning about oneself , one's family of origin. “Getting your own act together.” as John put it. Virginia did a lot experiential activities such as sculpting of families. Participants experienced and learned about the difference between incongruent and congruent communication.13:04 What John learned and inspired him in the first meeting? John witnessed Virginia helping to make changes every minute. There was an immediate change that was positively directional in terms of their relationship to themselves and others. Virginia's work was very positive and humanistic.15:00 John appreciated how Virginia was able to go beyond intellectual learning and to help people experience what was going on. She helped people transcend their immediate experience by feeling fully what was there and going deeper to a core sense of Self. She helped people discover what was getting in the way of being in tune with themselves and these could be feelings, perceptions and expectations.16:40 How can I be congruent within myself and take responsibility for my life?17:10 How did Virginia use her Self to make contact? She was fully present with others. You would experience her. You could feel her energy. She truly believes that we are unique, precious and loveable. We can have better and happier life.Her belief in people helped people connect more deeply to themselves,and to life.18:26 “I'll help you light your candle” Virginia would bring her light candle and it inspired people to look for their own light inside of themselves.19:24 How did Virginia become so positive? John suspects that her experience as a teacher has a big influence, but really it's a mystery. But he describes that when he met her it felt good to be in her presence and that she was fully blossoming at that time.21”42 Virginia came to Manitoba for 3 months to work at various levels of governemnt.22:25 Vrigina did what could be called family reconstruction across 3 generations. How to deal with the person in the present based on impacts of the past. “Changing the environmental impact” of our existence so they could change it at an energetic level.24:00 John differentiates four levels of Virginia's work: information, process, meaning, energy level.25:30 What is energy? “all life is energy” What is human energy and how can we be in touch with it? It could start with awareness, attitude, feelings, but deeper there is a flow of positive life energy. Operating at this level we can get in harmony with ourselves, others and the universe.27:10 I ask John to reflect on Virginia's work and it's relevance to the current COVID pandemic.John emphasizes ‘going inside' and learning to become aware of one's own reactions to what is going on (their thoughts and feelings)29:00 Can we become aware of a deeper sense of life? Virginia has an idea that there was a greater energy than us as individuals. Some call it God, Being, Spirit, and we could connect to it. Viriginia believed in an inherent healing quality of people's mind that was analogous to people's ability to heal from physical injury.32:50 First, become aware of how we experience ourselves. Most of the time we could find that we live in a negative way either too much in the past or too much in the future.(How do I experience myself? How do I think? How do I feel? How do I move? What am I not thinking, feeling and doing? Where are my blind spots? What do I avoid? In terms of loving myself and others what do I do, what do I not know how to do, what am I afraid to do?How are we educated about how to experience ourselves more fully (others and life more fully)?33:30 John asks “How I help you to be in charge of how you experience yourself? How can you take charge of your unmet expectations, your feelings, attitudes and thoughts? In order to be in charge, we need to look at change.John describes the process of connecting to a more positive attitude or linking to higher or deeper energy and change attitude, expectations, feelings and behavior.We can change our feelings by elevating them to a higher level of vibration. For example, getting in touch with gratitude as in the meditation at the beginning.An example of expectations, something happened that should have happened or that should not have happened. If something was unmet, I would react. Virginia Satir taught, “Can you accept without liking?” This can be very difficult. We can choose to let go, accept or create a new expectation.Perceptions would go through a similar process. Creating new ideas for ourselves.37:00 Tim comments that attitudes or mindsets like acceptance and gratitude or higher-order perspectives or ways of thinking that transcend the individual's needs and considers others and the context.38:30 John describes the Self as a natural energy that have basic yearnings. Just as trees have basic needs, humans have them too.We get our yearnings met through our experience. Virginia hoped that we would be responsible for meeting our yearnings.What does it mean to meet your own yearnings?I take charge of my feeling of my needs, of my saying and asking. I take charge of how I manage myself, who I ask.I don't leave it up to others.Symptoms are a manifestation that we are not meeting our yearnings.- John Banmen40:30 Virginia would not say how did that person make you feel. She would ask “What did you see and hear from them that you took in and created the feeling of sadness?”Yearnings are foundational energy within people trying to manifest through people and in relationships.42:42 John shares his personal journey of moving from Manitoba to BC and then becoming a professor at the University of British Columbia and then reconnecting with Virginia Satir in 1980. Virginia started doing process communities in 1981 which were 30 day training programs.48:00 Virginia emphasized the development of congruence which would enable them to perform well across any role. John describes congruence: To be in harmony with your basic life energy, the universal Self, and your personal self and your experience (feeling, perceptions, and expectations) and then being in harmony with others. John makes the point that being in tune with your feelings would not be congruent because congruence incorporates a larger energy that transcends the individual.53:51 John asks the question, “As a human how can we be in touch with who we really are?” Virginia would use the phrase to be fully human.John continues to describe the experience of the process community. People could practice at being more congruent, in charge, positive, and have a different experience of themselves.There were three levels : Virginia working with the whole group, the 3 main trainers working with groups of 30, and then all the triads working together in the evening.56:00 They would look at how they were coping in a survival way and this would mark a state of being out of harmony with the Self (incongruent). From here, participants would work towards congruence and being in harmony with their Self.57:30 How can we create a context of safety so we can look at our coping patterns lovingly?Virginia modelled in her own way of being, loving, caring, curious, and accepting. Her energy helped open people up to do their work.59:20 Tim asks John how Virginia's energy impacted him personally and professionally. John reflects that he tried his best to be congruent, to look at what was going on in him and what was coming out of him. “How can I be?” and “how can I apply?” what I am learning were seemingly two questions that became one. There was a constant introspection, a process as Virginia called it, of taking a look and being in charge,We discuss how recipes don't work in working in this kind of way. That there was a kind of wisdom to Virginia that empowered her to work fluidly and unpredictably and yet very effective. Tim reads from the Tao Te Ching to paint a picture of this wisdom that transcends intellectual knowing.1:03:35 John feels that our emphasis on understanding the psychological component means we can overlook the spiritual nature of Virginia's work. This life energy is beyond thought, beyond the body, non-dualistic. Beyond our emotional and mental capacity, lies a layer of life experience that Virginia was accessing.1:05:50 John explains the various level by which you can analyze and understand the Satir model. John describes a spiritual transformation; to be one.We are more than our thoughts and feelings.Here are some affirmations or a short meditation that can help you reflect on the core energy within you:I am a positive expression of life.I am goodness manifested.I am alive. I am whole. I am one.1:08:20 John hopes that we can bring Virginia's work can be used therapeutically but he sees that her work transcends this application and is a deeply spiritual teaching.1:08:45 John's hope and wish for the Satir Model is beyond a family therapy but a life model; how to be alive. He feels that her work teaches us to be, not just how to think and to feel.1:11:00 We discuss the difference between using technique to simply shifts states of mind as opposed to Virginia's seed model which had as its aim the expression of each individuals unique life force.There is the energy, the yearnings that actuate potential(the yearning for love, the yearning to live, to contribute, for peace)There are guiding beliefs that help point us in the right direction that is wisdom(you can only connect with one person at a time. We are hallucinating our experience. Perception is reality. The way we cope is what is important not how can we not have problems.I can take responsibility for my experience and yearnings. I can comment on the form from you which I see and what that brings up in me)In life, I need to risk hurting and being hurt if I am honest with what I feel, need, yearn for; if I wish to risk loving and being loved.Then there are behavioral skills that act as guidelines for the concrete expression of that attempt to meet a yearning.1:13:00 John shares about his work after Virginia died. They started work in Hong Kong, then in Taiwan then later in Canton. Psychoanalysis was the main psychological practice in China. They were eager to learn other western psychotherapy models.1:16:00 John felt that sharing that each person has a Self was a major contribution that fueled the motivation of students in China towards Virginia's work. Their emphasis on personhood and of having value. “We helped them ground themselves in themselves” John explained.1:20:00 John felt that politically that the model fit within China's cultural values because it taught greater responsibility. Their emphasis was also on teaching competency and that would empower them to be more helpful to others.1:23:00 Tim asks what transformation occurred with the introduction of the idea of a Self. John begins in awareness, awareness of parents' learnings and coping patterns. They would look at family dynamics and dominance hierarchies. They would sculpt the survival defensive patterns. They would then look at congruence, experientially as a transformational state.It was very powerful for parents to see themselves with their parents in a survival state often placating to them. They would reflect on their feelings and experience in being in these patterns. How would they like to be? What relationship would you like to see happen?Virginia would often sculpt congruence as two people on their feet making eye contact at the same height (often using stools and chairs to help).1:29:00 How can I be on my own two feet? How can I be aware of my survival coping patterns? Tim makes the point that our survival coping patterns aren't necessarily learned. They are forms adapted from basic instinctual energies of fight, flight and freeze.1:30:25 Helping the Chinese to be happy, healthy and successful with a goal of 65 Million which is the tipping point to create a nation-wide transformation. The Chinese see happiness as a birthright which is alignment with the type of workshops and trainings which John is responsible for.1:33:00 John describes what he means by happiness as being congruent: peace within, peace between and peace among.1:35:00 The Chinese have a concept of Chi, energy, which is how John understands and teaches the Satir model. He has been given the feedback that Virginia's work helps people understand their culture and Chi even more.1:36:00 What has been most impactful is the creation of experiences (experiential), not just philosophical or intellectual understanding.Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu (Translated by Jonathan Star)Verse 15The masters of this ancient pathAre mysterious and profoundTheir inner state baffles all inquiryTheir depths go beyond all-knowingThus, despite every effortWe can only tell of their outer signs--Deliberate, as if treading over the stones of a winter brook.Watchful, as if meeting dangers on all sidesReverent, as if receiving an honored guestSelfless, like a melting block of icePure, like an uncarved block of woodAccepting, like an open valleyThrough the course of NatureMuddy water becomes clearThrough the unfolding of lifeMan reaches perfectionThrough sustained activityThat supreme rest is naturally foundThose who have Tao want nothing elseThrough seemingly emptyThey are ever fullThrough seemingly oldThey are beyond the reach of birth and death

Eva Wieprecht joins me again to discuss some strategies and ideas for coping with stress, fear and anxiety during the pandemic. She shares a tool using the acronym COACH which stands for Centering, Openness, Awareness, Connection and Holding. We go through these steps which involve processing challenging emotions like our fear and using physical movement to help embody each resource and to deepen our connection to ourselves and to others.

2:00 heather provides some background about her music and the genre it is situated within. Southern country gothic. Tim shares about encountering Heather's music and its impact on him.6:20 Heather shares her story. Growing up in Northern Ontario surrounded by nature and training as a cross country skier. She describes her relationship with nature which was a touchstone connection that runs through her music. She describes herself as the opposite of an old soul. She describes her naivete and belief in people at their word and her yearning for life experiences. She studied cultural anthropology and transitioned to law school. Pursuing law was a way of proving herself that she could make it in the world of man. The further she went down the path of law the further she diverged away from her natural and inner desire for art, music and nature. This made it more difficult for her to know who she was. As she went further down this path, she describes feeling trapped within it, which then lead her to look for validation in the wrong places.14:00 Heather honestly expresses wearing the trappings of roles and exercising that ability to be able to meet everyone else's expectations and the pain that creates of not knowing who she was.14:45 Heather describes the romance that unravelled her life. She shares her experience of being deceived, cheated on and hurt within this relationship and the inner conflict between what she was going through and experiencing. and who she thought she should be as a strong professional woman. She talks about her attempts to leave the relationship but also the ambivalence that can exist in any toxic relationship and how challenging it can be to end such a relationship.19:50 After experiencing a great deal of stress and anxiety that manifested in physical symptoms, she took a vacation and went to see Gillian Welch perform live and it reminded her of a world that she longed to be a part of. Soon after she had an intense experience of being so disconnected mentally and physically at work losing her sense of time for several hours and feeling a fogginess of mind that made it feel like she was underwater. That same day she left her office and never returned.21:57 Tim asks what kind of validation was she receiving within the romance that lead her to getting caught up in an unhealthy relationship. She describes the emphasis within the practice of law the importance of managing your appearance and impression as part of the role. Heather talks about feeling that aspects of her self outside of specific roles had never felt seen before and that this person was able to make it seem that he could see and wanted to connect to that person.24:00 Heather shares about how her shared passion for music that was very romantic in theme finding its way into her experience of the relationship. She bravely shares that she was seeking a way out of the life of a lawyer and that this person offered and encouraged her departure from a life that did not feel authentic to her.26:50 Heather describes feeling like she was beginning to know herself through the gaze of this other person, We talk about what may be a necessary step of needing to lose yourself with someone, an unhealthy connection, in order to find yourself. We talk about the widespread dynamic of external approval seeking that we all experience in our growing up, in our education system which then finds its way in how we approach intimate relationships and relationships of any kind.29:10 Heather talks about a ‘conflict habituated form of love' that we can all begin to become attached to because of their emotional intensity. She describes how long it took for her to recover and begin the process of grieving and feeling again.30:30 Tim asks Heather how she was able to create a boundary to leave the unhealthy relationship and heal. She describes the challenges of being deceived and struggling to trust. On some level, she thought this was the best that love could be. Heather honestly shares about the ambivalence of wanting to leave and also wanting the relationship to continue.In her situation, Heather gives credit to the circumstance of this person being arrested and giving her space as he would not have the means to contact her so she could heal and as part of that to write her songs which was an important part of her healing.38:57 Heather offers her story as a caution that when someone breaks your trust to listen to that as an important detail that person and what to expect. She talks about how difficult it is to have a healthy relationship when cheating has taken place.40:30 Heather points out that the painful things of our lives do not end neatly. She felt she needed to hit absolute rock bottom and to learn to love herself from that point.41:45 Tim shares his reflection on the ways we are invited to play roles and the potential we have to lose ourselves by getting hooked by the expectations of others.44:30 Heather talks about her wish that she could transform her experiences into something beautiful that could be meaningful for other people. Heather says:“I don't believe in justice. I believe the most noble thing you can do with your time is to help other people who are suffering feel less pain and sometimes feeling understood is part of that.”“When you have gone through trauma, naming it is a way of taking it out of your own soul and putting it in the world so it's not able to just eat away at you. And it's a way of telling the truth of where you have been, which is a way of standing up against abuse.”46:00 Heather shares feedback about her music from audiences that sound like, “I've experienced something that's being called out in this music and thank you for helping me feel like I'm not alone.” These moments make Heather feel it is all worth it.47:10 Heather describes how difficult it can be for people who are highly empathic and who have survived abusive relationships to set boundaries. To not feel guilty about setting boundaries and saying no when that's what fits and feels safe and right.50:50: Heather shares the acronym for identifying toxic relationships: justifying, arguing, defending, explaining. When the relationship is a toxic pattern and you find yourself in these modes of JADE, these efforts are more opportunities to be invalidated.51:40 Often, toxic relationships stem from the seeking of validation outside of oneself. This pattern of seeking external validation is established in our public education.“You can't be worried about how you will be received. You just have to be as authentic and true as you can be.”54:30 Tim asks Heather how, as a performer, she deals with ego-mind that could easily worry about other's judgments.In preparing for a show, Heather explains her thought as, “I'm going to be as honest as possible and to tell these stories through this music in the best way I'm capable with this practice.” And then I have to just trust that it will connect with people.”56:30 Heather reflects positively on the challenges she has experienced as allowing to be in a place where she has something that she feels is worth sharing. She talks about overcoming her shyness and the dynamic of sharing something that is specifically her story but general enough that it resonates on the level of human experience with others.58:15 Heather shares “It's ok to be weak. When the right people are in your life, they're not going to make you pay for those moments. You can't be strong all the time.” Heather shares that she went through her difficulties because she was so proud and afraid of showing weakness and internalized everything.Tim reflects on his work with people, particularly men, who begin with an attitude that feeling and expressing vulnerable emotions is weak. Through their work in therapy, they learn that, in fact, feeling, sharing one's weakness is tremendously courageous and also receiving help can be the ultimate expression of human strength rather than isolation and suppression.1:01:40 Heather emphasizes the importance of finding people that you can trust and feel safe with to open up with.Heather quotes the saying, “When you're wearing rose-coloured glasses, all the red flags look like white flags.”

0:00 Sharon begins with a medtiation.8:30 Our conversation begins focusing on community. Community is a coming together of people with like minded values. There is a sense of belonging, Sharon cites research that people are going to be experiencing more depression over time as people are sequestered into virtual social media spaces.We talked about the importance of community for refugees like the Vietnamese boat people that came to Canada in the 70s of which Tim's wife is a child of.14:00 Sharon finds inspriation and energy from her connection to the Satir community and her church. Many windows one light. There is something powerful and connective when a group of people sing together.17:00 Tim shared his appreciation for the joy and willingness that people at the IHLRN conference showed for contributing to the conference with even the smallest of tasks. Our sense of feeling useful and helpful we can feel meaning and purpose in our lives.19:30 Sharon shared about her community growing up of about 100 people and that neighbors would be very well connected and helpful to each other. Now that most of us live in large urban settings, we are very disconnected and we don't know our neighbors.24:00 Tim mentions how Sharon is a leader in building communities virtually through Virginia's work.29:00 When we connect through our similiariities we can apprecaite our differences in a positive way.30:30 Sharon mentions the temperature reading tool as a way of getting to know each other.A temperature reading involves sharing appreciations for oneself and others, puzzles (things that are problems that need to be resolved), complains and recommendations, new information and hopes and wishes.33:00 We talked about Tim's experience doing a piece of therapeutic work in front of a group of 40 people with Laura Dodson and how supportive it is to do personal work within the context of a safe group , a community.

0:00 We begin with Laura leading us in a meditation for grounding and connecting to our Self.3:00 We clarify what Laura means by Zap, to understand the transformational process and the process of connecting to our deepest Self.Laura describes it as being connected to the “golden thread” that which transcends our ego and is a greater energy. She shares her own experiences during of time of grief of receiving an experience that came as an audio ‘zap' that said ‘The form is not the essence' Laura describest that this message was like a conversation between the large Self that transcends her speaking to the small self within her. This was a zap of clarity and insight for Laura which she has found to be a universal experience that most people have had cross-cultural around the world7:10 Laura describes it as an experience of something far greater than oneself. Being aware that there is this Self/Life force energy and paying attention is an important aspect of experiencing according to Laura. Tim shares about his own zap experience that occurred during a session fo holotropic breathwork where had visualizations of eyes and the phrase “The eye sees but it is not what it sees” Laura emphasizes that these kinds of experiences are beyond simply insight but are examples of great knowing “Knowing in every cell in your being” These symbols that come from the unconscious are a comfort because they provide a peace and relieving experience that helps us transcend the events and tragedies that are occurring in time and space.12:55 Tim asks “are zap experiences important to transformational change?” Laura does seem them as important and they can come in many forms. In her model of transformational change, this is our contact with numinous experiences (deeply meaningful symbols, dreams, insights, etc.) that help us see life from a completely different and new perspective. We shift out of being stuck and not being able to see where we are and where we are going and we have new light, new insight and hope that shifts us into a new direction. These profound experiences help us disengage from a stuck perspective pattern and we engage and revivify our whole body and being to be free to choose and to move again.16:13 Laura shares her experience with Ian Baker, in Zurich, who was a Jungian analyst and did research at the mental hospital where Carl Jung worked. People had psychotic breaks because of their experimenting with LSD. In the hospital, they were again given LSD, but this time revisited the part of the experience that left them feeling ‘crazy'. They were supported to talk to that experience in a two-chair Gestalt kind of context. To take charge of the experience and to say that they needed the experience to come later in life when they were ready or that they were in charge, not the experience. With this intervention, they were not longer psychotic. Laura emphasizes the theme of ‘taking charge' as an important element of what is healing.18:25 We talk about the iceberg metaphor with the Satir model, which includes behavior which is what is seen and above the water line and other elements below the surface such feelings, feelings about feelings, perceptions, expectations to name a few. Tim explains that he likes to use the metaphor of the iceberg to look and explore what is stuck or an unhelpful pattern of coping, but not to be a representation of consciousness as a whole. In other words, the iceberg is a particular form of consciousness at a moment in time and space. Transformation is the melting of the iceberg so our consciousness becomes fluid, flexible and free and we are able to make choices that are from this empowered place.Transformation is the process where we reclaim the energy that is stuck and use it in a different way that is in line with healthier states of being. This includes experiencing freedom, peace, joy and vitality. By incorporating transformation within the metaphor, ice to water, we more accurately represent the process of transformational change.21:00 Laura talks about the importance of creativity and choice in Virginia's work and this exemplifies healthy fluidity. Laura describes the relationship and flow between awareness, communication and action. That with greater awareness we enhance our communication and the quality of our actions enhances.Laura provides an example of how open awareness about multiple meaning and interpretations then leads to an expansion of possibilities and choice.24:50 Laura clarifies the difference between communication and action. Communication is the step of simply expressing one's feelings, perceptions, needs to oneself, perhaps to the person of a therapist which is about finding the voice or expression that fits and then the action being what happens between the person and the people and their relationship they have in the world.Virginia would encourage people to connect to their feelings deeply and then together finding a form of expression that accurately expresses it and then ask how it was, how it felt to express it. So often people don't connect to or say the things they deeply want to say and so to nurture people through that process and help them be aware of what is the embodied experience is very important.27:00 We talk about how people have barriers to communicating their deepest yearnings because they learned in their family rules that sharing such things were forbidden. Transforming the family rules such as “Do not talk about your feelings.” “Don't be vulnerable or else people will take advantage.” this explicit and implicit rules become barriers to deep connections to Self and others and keep us in defensive coping..28:30 Tim asks Laura how we can support one another to look at these old patterns in new ways. Laura talks about ‘lending your ego' This can be done by encouraging, stroking them, letting them know it's ok to incorporate new beliefs. That person is affirming and supportive of new learning and taking the risk to practice.33:00 Laura talks about her coping through her husband's death and how meditation was an important tool that allowed her to listen to the greater transcendence Self energy that gives clarity moment by moment of what to do and how to cope. Tim suggested that Laura was trusting the greater Lifeforce, but Laura didn't see it that way. Instead, she didn't know what else to do. We talked about how moments of great darkness come to the necessity of connecting to a greater energy (light) that transcends the ego.37:00 Laura shares some of her dreams at different points in her life to illustrate the connection to our greater life force and how this can be expressed and the impact it can have on our lives. She illustrates through her experience of dreams and her life how they directly impacted her perspective and her movement through life.39:15 Laura shares a dream that related to George's death which is a kind of foretelling dream. Laura describes how there are many layers of consciousness and the arena of consciousness that puts us in touch with all things that transcends time and space.44:30 Laura describes the utility of dream as a moment of being connected or flooded with light that helped her understand what was happening. Laura comments, “In the depth of our unconscious there is a knowing about everything” It gave her a sense of peace and a knowing that we are connected to universal truths. She adds, “I am a part of the universe. I'm not an isolated being in my body. Sometimes I transcend my body and I'm connected to the Universal Truths.”46:10 Tim asks Laura if the dream is an example of a Zap experience. Laura says Zap are conscious waking experiences. Tim clarifies in wondering with Laura what other significance this dream had on Laura. She feels it deepened her belief in the realms of the unconscious.Tim asks Laura why is it important to have this connection with the unconscious. Laura affirms that action-oriented therapies have a place. She goes on to describe how Virginia would begin by connecting to various energies systems below, above and amongst that carry wisdom. That there is far more wisdom than what we can be aware of in our minds at a moment in time. To have an appreciation and openness to the unconscious provides many gifts of insight, of energy, of connections. Connection to the unconscious, according to Laura has the effect of “the world gets bigger and the possibilities get bigger.”50:15 Tim relates this to a trusting of the many complex systems of our bodies that function without our conscious control and appreciating the wisdom that is active within which gives us life (circulatory, digestive, immune, nervous system)51:15 We explore ways to deepen their relationship to the unconscious. Why value the unconscious realms and how to cultivate that connection. Laura talks about how the connection to the larger plan of the unconscious gives us more information/wisdom from which to make decisions. “We can know much more than we know.”54:30 Laura introduces the topic of suffering and our judgements about certain feelings states as being bad versus good. Laura shares her perspective that the goodness is in our ability to be with whatever state is with no judgment. The issue of suffering is more a matter of being able to move through it , to breathe through it. And to keep the feeling states fluid and this an important aspect of growth. To go with the states with curiosity and flow with them and see where they take us.57:46 “There's a me that's more than my body” We discuss the importance of being able to explore the question of “Who I am?” Who are you beyond your body? This could be used as a reflective question so see the Self that is beyond the physical form. What is the essence in you?1:00:00 Laura finishes with a meditation“Brighter than the brightest sun.Purer than the whitest snow.More subtle than either is the Self.I am that Self. That Self am II am that Self, that Self am I .“Brighter than the brightest sun.Purer than the whitest snow.More subtle than either is the Self.I am that Self. That Self am II am that Self, that Self am I .

The Self-Connection Podcast: S1 E 15:A Zap of insight with Laura Dodson.Laura Dodson, a former student and eventual colleague of Virginia Satir joins the podcast today. Laura shares her wisdom through the telling of her own healing journey of shame and describes her experience working with Virginia and her own family of origin issues as essential to healing and finding peace. I found my conversation with Laura to be deeply enriching and hope that her passion, heart and wisdom shine through in this podcast.0:00 Tim provides a brief introduction to Laura Dodson. Laura did her first training with Virginia in 1963 Laura Dodson was a close friend of Virginia Satir and was by her side as she died of Pancreatic cancer in 1988.In addition to her extensive training with Virginia, Laura is also a Jungian analyst and did her postdoctoral thesis integrating Virginia's work with Carl Jung with her insights.Laura is one of the key leaders in sharing Virginia's work with the world. She has travelled to many parts of hte world including, Russia, Lithuania, and Thailand to offer training and workshops and has been doing so since the 80s.2:50 Laura does a meditation:6:00 Tim offers a brief commentary to transition into the conversation between himself and Laura.7:23 Tim asks Laura to share her own experiences of “Zap” . Laura shares about her early experiences of being a teacher and quickly transitioning to becoming a social worker as she was more interested in connecting to the inner lives of her students and family life and supporting growth at a deeper level. In this way, her life parallels Virginia as they both connected to their students' families to help support them with their learning. Laura wrote letters to the top family therapist of the time and Virginia was the only one to respond inviting her to train with her and offering something for her mind, body and soul.12:20 Laura talks about her first impressions of Virginia. She was present and expressive of what she felt and thought and Laura found this to be very exciting. She listened carefully to others. Laura worked in an adult inpatient mental health facility and she invited Virginia to come to teach, do demonstrations, and train the staff there two or three times a year over nine years.16:50 In this work, the emphasis was with families and creating community and the demonstrated successful outcomes over 5 year follow up.18:10 Laura shares that Virginia had a deep respect for others and did not allow for any blaming or shaming to occur in her work. Laura learned from Virginia to see the problem as one of coping not as one of pathology residing within a specific person which would foretell blame and shame. The intervention at the level of family and community created a sense of community around the problems that were occurring and the presenting problems could then resolve or lessen as a result of working in this way, that is, systemically.19:22 Understanding logically the futility of blame and understanding family of origin issues, and approaching emotional and family life from a stance of learned patterns and behaviors. Laura talks about Virginia's preparation in meeting a family, putting aside her concerns and agenda so she can be present and meet the individuals of the family with a sense of awe at the miracles they each are. She differentiated between peoples behavior from their essence. “We are all miracles. And I feel I am about to meet a miracle. So I feel respect and awe of that person. “ From that attitude, she would make contact and often physical touch contact to meet people. She wanted to join the family to explore what was happening and to explore choices of what other things could happen.Virginia approached people with a detective hat (sometimes literally!) , which symbolized an attitude of curiosity rather than blame. Virginia talked about blame being our first attempts at trying to understand what's happening and we don't have in our minds a broader way of looking at it. Seeing people and situations beyond blame is central to understanding how Virginia worked.Laura shares her view that people's intention and goals is not to hurt, unless its revenge for the hurt that they feel they've experienced. Revenge is not inherent in our nature but rather a reaction to pain.24:40 Tim asks how Virginia was able to have such confidence in the essence of people beyond their behavior and patterns. Virginia talked about each person have the seed of creativity within us. A problem is a block in energy. We are geared towards growth.26:00 Laura provides an example of someone suffering with Schizophrenia saying "people in this family never liked me|". Virginia would thank them for sharing and ask when they first felt that. They would go into the past and that's when the creative energy started to be blocked, the energy to solve problems was blocked because the solution or formulation is somehow they are ‘wrong, bad, dirty, evil, stupid or crazy'. Virginia would explore how differences were handled and talked about. Were they labelled as "bad". Then she would offer a new perspective, “What if we called your difference your uniqueness?” She worked to take blame and shame out of the conversation. Shame is particularly difficult because with shame we feel we should just disappear and not exist. She worked to help people see themselves as she saw them, as a miracle of life.27:42 Tim asks what Laura's experience of Zap. Laura describes growing up feeling shame about her body being tall and very thin. Laura was different in being attracted to people's emotional life which was very unlike those in her family. Laura recalls noticing tension in the family and taking on the blame and responsibility for that. “It's because of me. I did something wrong. I'm not loveable anymore. It must be my fault.”31:55 Laura recalls Virginia doing a sculpt with Fritz Perls (the founder of Gestalt therapy) role-playing her father and sitting his lap. Virginia said to her “You know something more happened to you when you were 5, something more than having long legs. You need to go find out.”Laura questioned her mother and finally found out that her father had an affair. Laura realized that what was happening in the family was not her fault. She explains that she felt relief. This was one example of a Zap moment for her.36:00 Laura shares that she had learned that shame was a reaction to anything wrong. She expanded her possibilities of how to react when something was wrong; beyond what a child would do, thinking “It's all my fault” Realizing that she was not the center of the universe as a child would think.Laura shares that her defence of pulling back and not talking, not being seen, was rooted in the shame of “I'm not ok” Before her work with Virginia, she couldn't become a woman and integrate her sensual side.39:50 Shame disconnects us from our Self, or Life force. We can apply the ideas of unravelling shame to healing from cultural trauma. Laura talks about her work in Lithuania as an experience of a nation experiencing shame. “Healing of shame applies to all systems.”45:25 We talk about Virginia's incorporation of the body, breath, movement. Tim asks Laura to share what she learned from Virginia about the importance of the body in the work of growth and healing. Laura relates her experience of Virginia dying and having an insight of what to do that came from meditation that was preverbal and body-based.49:20 Laura also shares another experience training with Virginia working with a woman who was in a car accident and walks us through the bodywork that occurred in her process of healing. “Leading by following a half a step behind.” is how Laura likes to work and how she witnessed Virginia working. She helped to help make conscious that is unconscious and almost conscious. She recalls Virginia stroking her hands and asking “if your hands could speak what would they say” so that she could come to her senses more and more.There is a relief when you can place in time and space the feeling tone that you carry within a particular context. Laura describes this as comforting and making sense of her pain. “To become familiar with that part of life that she had repressed”Virginia was very mindful not to interrupt the individual's process and encouraged her to experience her experience for herself. She was present to help Jackie find what her body was remembering. There is an art to staying out of the way and being a guide. Laura describes the importance of creating that bond between therapist and client before being able to go deep into bodywork or any healing process.58:50 Laura talks about how thrilling it can be to have a partner doing the work together and not getting in the way of it. Laura describes Freud's use of the couch with the patient lying down and facing away from the therapist as a way of doing this but analysts were not trained to show they care and to bond and to journey together was not present in Laura's experience of analysis of the time.1:00:00 We talk about the connection at the level of Self being the essential ingredient to transformation. That an overemphasis on method and technique can lose sight of this.1:01:30 We talk about the use of touch in therapy. Tim appreciates Virginia's use of the whole body and Self in therapy and Virginia's fearlessness in doing so. Laura talks about the important risk a therapist must take to speak the unspeakable, to bring to light what is felt but not yet said. The risks that a therapist takes an important ingredient according to Laura of what makes the work therapeutic and not just a casual conversation. To make the hypothesizing together and not needing to be right is an important part of being able to grow and learn in relationships.

0:00 Meditation5:30 What's alive in you? This is a different way of asking “how are you feeling?” This allows for the exploration of other forms of consciousness which may not be feelings such as beliefs, wishes, and yearnings.7:15 What is the space between things? It is formless and can be described by some of the energies we use to help transform our stuck experiences. Such as using presence, compassion, love to transform challenging emotions such as anger and depression.10:20 Congruence is the manifestation or expression of consciousness. This is where we have done the internal work of Self-connection and creating a conscious response in the form of a congruent behavior/expression. Congruent has as its effect a sense of peace and wholeness regardless of the response/reaction of others.13:00 Evolving consciousness occurs when we can connect to our deepest values and resources to transform our experiences and reactive patterns. Sharon calls this the “Pause” effect where we disengage from set patterns and access supports and resources to learn and create a new response.15:40 How do you know when you're in a rut or a pattern? Virginia talked about 4 survival patterns that represent ruts we can fall into : blame, placating, superreasonable, and irrelevant. What marks the use of a survival pattern is a loss of connection to one or more elements of self, other and context.18:20 Fight, flight and freeze are marked by overgeneralizations, characterizations, threatening, intimidating, are forms of fight. Flight looks like distracting from the topic, withdrawing, emotional withdrawal, stonewalling, cutting off. The defences can be combined in many ways creating what Virginia Satir called a ‘stress dance.”21:00 People's sense of themselves are eroded and degraded when stuck in these survival patterns. This is an important marker of defensive coping. In other words, you can identify that you are in a defensive stance if you are feeling of low worth and disconnected from your authentic Self.23:00 Healthy congruent communication is marked by a genuine dialogue where people's flaws aren't fixed character judgments and people can engage in a process of mutual understanding and growth together.23:45 “Its all about process the perception together” People quickly assume that they know what each other mean. It is important to check out each other's meaning because what is said and what is meant is often not the same thing.24:30 In having this dialogue we need to take turns listening because two people can not speak or listen simultaneously. Tim asks how do you decide who gets to be heard first? The person who can shift their energy from survival to openness, curious and compassionate can volunteer to listen first and can positively impact the relationship.26:30 We discuss the challenge of transitioning from the need to be right and to “win” the argument towards a collaborative supported conversation. Sharon suggests that we need to connect to our higher values and wishes of harmony, connection, love , we can let go of needing to be right.28:00 We debate on the utility and use of compassion. That congruence may simply the honest expression of one's own feelings without projecting a need of a particular response from the other.30:00 The difference between Ego and Self. We comment on competency at the level of Ego and our feedback should never be related to the Self. In order for us to receive feedback constructively, we need to differentiate between our ego and Self. When these are enmeshed then there is a tremendous threat and vulnerability in hearing negative feedback.32:30 Consciousness is a differentiation between Self and ego. The work of differentiating Self and ego is an ongoing growth process. Reflecting and meditating on these differences can help us grow. We need a secure base from which we can know who we are (Self) and then a way to share at the level of role /ego what is happening and having constructive growth-oriented conversations.33:40 Sharon makes the point that some people will struggle to feel Self-worth. We talk about how the attachment needs of a child are ego needs; and are an important part of healing. Ego's can die when the patterns no longer fit and can be reborn and this is personality transformations.36:15 Congruence is honest but it doesn't go below the belt and lose sight of respect of self, other and context. When we are communicating congruently, we are connected to our value and dignity at the level of Self as we are discussing things at the level of ego/form/role.39:15 “The Hardest Thing to do Ever!” is holding the mind and heart of my self and of the other simultaneously.

0:00 meditation connecting to feelings building awareness5:00 We begin exploring definitions of feelings, how we work with them personally and professionally. Sharon talks about the idea of ‘listening profoundly' where you listen from your heart your spirit and your presence that says “I'm here for you and I'm not making any judgments'. I'm working to understand you and I accept you. “ Listening to feelings allow feelings to expand and elaborate and increases their capacity for growth. Feelings are energy.12:00 Sharon describes that there are feelings about feelings and that there are primary and secondary emotions.14:45 Emotions are an aspect of experience or consciousness that we try to discuss independently albeit artificially so that we can try to come to understand what is unique and distinct about feelings. “Feelings fire first” They are fast and could be tied to unconscious and implicit beliefs. We feel emotions based on a particular way of thinking and physical sensation. Emotions are preverbal. These patterns of relating were established based on family or origin become recurring emotional patterns throughout life.16:17 We acknowledge that there are cultural or family rules that resist the experience of feelings and talking about feelings. Virginia talked about emotions being the ‘juice of life'.17:10 Emotions put us into motivation. Our emotions both positive and negative are resources that help us being fully motivated in life.The way that we utilize the energy of emotions requires us to use resources like intelligence, compassion, wisdom, honesty and awareness.18:20 “To be disconnected from our emotions is to be disconnected from the life within us. It would be the same as being cut off from oxygen.” Being stuck in emotional states creates behavioural and relational patterns that leave us rigid and unfulfilled.19:20 Violence can stem from the identification with another person's behaviour being a comment on a person's worthiness. Not being served well at a restaurant. I can feel unworthy and it doesn't mean that I am worthy.20:00 the way that our emotions are related to by others when we are young becomes the way that we relate to our own emotions later on. We learn as a child which emotions are forbidden and we can either suppress them or project them, but any emotions that are forbidden can not be processed in a healthy way.21:00 when we relate to our emotional experience positively, lovingly, constructively then we open up new possibilities that create deeper connections and creativity.22:00 Sharon describes 4 primary emotions and an additional 2. These are angry, fears, sadness and joy. You could add shame and excitement as other primary emotions based on the research on primary emotions.23:00 We discuss the importance of just being able to be with emotions without trying to change or get rid of it immediately. To be with emotions in this way we need to make a few decisions about what we believe to be true:I am responsible for creating and maintaining my emotions.It's to appreciate the resource and wisdom of the emotional response and responses that occurred and are occurring.I can relate to my emotions openly, constructively if I am rooted and connected to myself. (That I am worthy) not that if I feel bad, that I bad.27:45 Without the connection to our emotions and it's honest expression to those we care about, intimacy can not take place. The difficult, negative emotions are challenging and the initial temptation is to avoid them and not talk about them, but when we are in touch with our higher goals of genuine connection and the valuing of our relationships; feeling the feelings and conversations about them can result in a greater connection.29:28 The root of the word encourage has to do with courage and the courage to express what is deep in your heart. Some people believe that feeling vulnerable emotions makes a person weak so they hide from that, but the opposite is true. Expressing vulnerability is an expression of courage and strength.31:45 Courage, truthfulness, love and awareness are meta-resources and values that help us process, move through and transform our emotions.32:50 You can not change the event, but you can change the impact that is occurring inside of you.33:30 we discuss the inevitable occurrence of loss, trauma and death which will erupt negative and difficult emotions. We are all capable of building our resource to contain these experiences, to express the emotions and our ability to ask for help.

Show notes:Today we continued our conversation about choice and hinted at a future topic of integration. Our choicemaking evolves from our ability to be aware and awareness requires a connection to what we feel, what we are needing and yearning for, awareness of others feelings and needs and the ability to differentiate between Self and role within each person. If we can communicate from the basis of our Self we can make whatever constructive criticisms about our roles and functions that are needed.0:00 meditation4:30 the conversation begins. Sharon talks the part of the meditation she enjoyed having to do with the home inside. We talked about the developmental process of creating a home base inside that first comes in our experience of our relationship with parents as children.7:00 We explore what the elements of becoming a choicemaker are. We discuss the survival energies of fight, flight and freeze and Virginia Satir's coping stances as impulses that happen quickly and instinctively that are compulsions and not yet conscious choices.11:00 Sharon shares her insight that people who have experienced trauma have a tendency to self-blame and that this is an instinct to stay connected to parents. Understanding the underlying energy underneath the coping helps create a space for choice. Understand the survival instinct and the underlying energy as being protection or self-love, and then exploring the actual consequences of the survival coping can motivate the exploration of alternative choices.14:00 Sharon shares that when we speak in absolutes “it's all your fault” “it's all my fault” we are disconnected from the Self and speaking from a part. This could be the inner child or the protector, but these parts can often be functioning away from the whole Self.14:45 Sharon shares the hypothetical example of her husband being late and her blame of saying “you are always late” Communicating can instigate survival coping in others. Being aware of the expression of “you always “ or “I always” creates a choice point to treat yourself and others differently, perhaps with more compassion, acceptance and flexibility.15:20 When we say things like “you are always late” these messages and tone can be received as absolute conclusions “you are bad” When we communicate in absolutes we are potentially impacting and harming people's connection to Self. Often people give messages like this when they are feeling low in themselves, hurt, angry, disappointed. The perception of evil or a toxic conclusion about the Selfhood of another person is the source of a lot of pain, conflict and destruction in the world whether that is self or other perception. When messages are given in the way it is very easy to pick up a global message of “I am no good”17:24 There are choices with this awareness around how we communicate our emotions, especially hurts and pains. Then there are choices to make as the receiver that is healthier and process-oriented that avoids sticky conclusions that negatively impact the self-worth of a person.18:00 the Four survival coping stances. We go over each one briefly: these are blaming, placating, irrelevance, and superreasonable.21:00 Sharon walks us through the example of allowing herself to become aware of the initial emotions of anger and agitation, and then exploring the feelings underneath those, which might be upset, the unfulfilled wish, worry, anxiety. Our voice tone communicates blame and the energy in how we use our voice is essential in communicating non-defensively.23:40 Tim highlights the importance of being able to offer criticisms of each other in a way that does not diminish the self-worth and dignity of each other. Because we are in roles we are needing to give each other feedback so we can continue to grow and improve. Holding a connection to our Selves and to the Selves of others by saying with our voice tone “I see you and I value you and I'd like to tell you something that i need from you for us to work better together. Are you open to hearing me?”26:00 Sharon and Tim discuss and demonstrate communicating about role and function while also validating the Self in each person. This is an example of congruent communication.27:10 Sharon talks about resolving differences by asking each what they need and they pose the question “how can we each get our needs meet with the least cost to each other?” The question of need gets at yearnings and when we communicate at this level we can be creative and have constructive conversations about how to function in roles. Asking the question helps reorient ourselves back into our authentic Self and out of survival coping. Acceptance of the cost to each person allows for a free choice to be made, one that involves awareness and responsibility.

0:15 We start with a mediation that focuses on making choices and relaxing the body and appreciating oneself.7:00 we begin discussing the topic for today of choices as an important resources with coping with the recent mass shootings in the United States.9:00 Sharon discusses Thomas Abt work related to mass shootings and his book, “Bleeding Out” In this book, Thomas Abt discusses different categories of gun violence. Sharon is about to publish a book with people who have been incarcerated and who have chosen to turn their life around. She makes the connection that there are different categories of choices. She talks about mini-choices of how we deal with events on the outside, internal choices of how a person is treating themselves moment by moment, and there are fundamental choices. In her work with and in collecting the stories of people who had turned their lives around, they made fundamental choices which seemed to have a common spiritual element that has stayed with them.12:30 We discuss the relationship between fundamental choices and beliefs as they relate to one's orientation to life and the nature of human beings. The beliefs we choose to hang out to can influence our actions and what we are creating in our life; whether we are oriented towards life and growth or destruction and death.13:50 We discuss the iceberg metaphor as a way of understanding how our power to choose interacts with all levels of our experience. We can choose what we do about our experience. We can choose what we do with our perceptions, expectations, rules, etc.15:30 We can think about making choices around the primary ways that we experience life. Some people are deeply connected to their feelings and others to their cognitions. Our dominant orientation can become the arena from which to make choices and to empower oneself16:45 Tim discusses the importance of not identifying oneself with a particular choice at a moment in time, but rather to identify oneself with the ability, capacity, resource of being able to make choices. Thinking about choices as a resource; rather than identifying oneself with specific choices, frees us to explore and to learn and to strengthen our ability to choose.Choices represent the best we could do with the information, experiences and strength we had at a moment in time. The outcome of a particular choice is not the Self.I have choices about all aspects of my experience because my experience belongs to me.18:15 Sharon shares that people often believe that their perceptions are facts and are not aware of the extent to which their perceptions come from an interpretation of facts/events.“Only when we come to a place of process with each other that we are going to be able to talk to each other.”This meaning only by helping each other come to an understanding of how we arrived at our perceptions and beliefs can we find peace. This dialogical process is the key.When we are locked into defensiveness and rigidity then we can not engage in this kind of process.22:40 We discuss the difference between the Whole Self and parts. Certain parts can be tied to defensive patterns related to fighting, flight and freeze which create set patterns of behaving that make it impossible to engage in dialogue with each other. The process then needs to be based on engaging in Whole Self together in communication with one another.24:00 Attachment in a particular worldview, perception or ideology necessitates a defensive wall psychologically or that prevents new information from coming in.What are the choices that people can make to help get them out of locked-in positions and engage in a healthy dialogue that moves all towards life?24:30 Sharon shares that she experienced going into a shame part and feeling like she wasn't doing well with our conversation today. Sharon explained that she could feel the difference in her connection to herself when feeling shame and embarrassment, but that when she heard Tim use the phrase “Whole Self” she was able to come back and be present to the conversation and feel open and feel supported together. Sharon could give space to the part that felt shame and not let it be in the driver seat anymore.26:30 We discuss the importance of a safe, trusting relationship which gives us both the freedom to comment on the here and now process of our conversations and the ability for both of us to take risks. Tim shares that all these elements are different choices: the choice to comment and also a fundamental choice: how am I going to be? Am I willing to be vulnerable? To take a risk? For example, I want to be someone who can check out his and other perceptions. With these resources, we can be better equipped to work on solving problems together. 28:15 We talk about the overarching them of Self-connection and that Sharon's ability to connect to her experience of shame and to express it occurs because she has the wisdom to know that she is not her shame. Not being identified with it empowers her to process and cope with it. Without this wisdom, it is easy to get overwhelmed and wrapped up in identifying with shame. 28:50 A fundamental choice is the deep inner knowing that “I am of value and matter at the level of my Whole Self” and “I can feel what I feel without becoming identified with it”30:00 A central theme that all human beings are confronted with is a sense of ‘Do I matter?” Sharon described her research into the characteristics common to perpetrators of mass shootings. These included: having a grievance, having family pain, seeking glory. How can we help people deal with their pain other than killing? Whether that means suicide or homicide.33:15 We talk about the importance of containing healing the difficult emotion of anger and resentment that can result in the actions of vengeance/revenge.34:40 When we are lost in an emotion like anger or resentment, we are likely lost in our ego or small self or a part of self and disconnected from our Whole Self. A challenging emotion like anger can also isolate individuals.35:57 In the face of tragedy and violence, it is challenging not to get lost in our reactive survival patterns, our limited ego, and to stay connected to our Whole Self, our wisdom. Engaging in the process of authentic dialogue and speaking from the Whole Self is an important way of coping, healing and dealing with the pain of tragedy.37:00 Sharon proposes that it is important for boys/men to be able to identify the feelings underneath the anger. If they are not aware that there are underlying emotions under the anger, which then limits their ability to be self-aware and to make choices to get their needs met.39:30 What are the ingredients that empower someone to become a congruent choicemaker? Some beginning ideas are sense of responsibility, self-awarenesses, love, connection to Self/Will, creativity, and one's values.

In today's episode, Sharon and Tim will explore context as it relates to healing, relationships, and personal growth. Virginia Satir emphasized an awareness and connection to the context that helped extend beyond the typical realm of focusing on individual feelings, behaviours and pathology.0:00 Context pushes us to think about multivariant factors acting and interacting to create situations and subjective experience.2:38 Sharon talks about the context for making contact. The therapist is responsible for creating a safe context for a person to be open and vulnerable and also to be aware of the context of which they are coming from as they transition from one setting to the next. We both emphasized the act of awareness of context and active creation of a particular kind of context related to therapy that allows for change and growth.6:15 It can be empowering to ask “How am I interacting and interfaced with my context right now? How am I using it? What experience am I creating in relation to the context?” “How will I use this context?” Asking these questions opens up a space of choice which is empowering.Sharon talks about the violation of the context as in what you say to whom and when. Whether to say something publicly or privately. These things relate to honoring the relationship/context7:45 Context has to do with the function, role and purpose of where we are. Clarity of function makes expectations clear. People experiencing dissociation, psychotic breaks or major depression are disconnected from their surrounding context.10:00 Sharon talks about how important it is to listen to those in the specific context and we talk about how playing with context creatively opens up new ways of being supportive to families and individuals in therapy. Tim talks about how having a supportive audience watching therapeutic processes can amplify and heighten the growth that people can engage in. This brings in the element of having a supportive community that is often missing in people's lives.14:15 Sharon talks about how powerful it can be to have a spiritual community where each member can ‘borrow from the bank' depending on who is feeling strong at a moment in time who can give and who is feeling weak and needing to receive. Sharon talks about her connection to her choir. She describes the power of a community connecting through healing sound whether it be singing, drumming, chanting.18:15 Sharon shares the story of monks that were getting sick because they reduced their time chanting. She references the book “The healing power of sound” by Mitchell L . Gaynor.19:40 Tim explores the impact of singing and chanting on breathe and it's physiological impact on the body. Then what is the impact of synchronizing sound with a group of people and the social connection that occurs? We talk about church choirs, concerts and sports teams and people singing and chanting together and how powerful that experience can be.22:00 What is your sound production doing to the context? Or what kind of context being created by the sounds we produce? When what I am feeling on the inside is irritability and what sound comes out is an irritable tone that impacts the environment, the space, the context.24:00 Virginia Satir was very intentional of being conscious of the relationship between people and context. For example, how comfortable are the chairs people are sitting on, what is the physical distance like? Too close, too far away?26:30 Sharon talks about the context of developmental changes in the family and of each member of the family. We discuss that people are mastering stages and then entering into new psychosocial stages of developments.28:00 We explore the dictionary definition of context. Sharon talks about the word “circumstances” as they relate to the present, what are my past circumstances that is causing a person to be overreactive at a moment in time. Virginia Satir would create sculpts with people where people could see the psychological, relational, cultural patterns and connections of those people of previous generations to provide more context to understanding their family in the present.31:00 we explore the tone and atmosphere of physical spaces like someone's home. Sharon talked about people commenting on her home “your house has a very nice energy.” John Banmen said of Sharon's home “I knew I could go into her fridge and get myself something and not even have to ask.”Sharon said that she loves having people in her home and that takes joy in having guests.34:30 We talk about a congruent context where people feel free to speak and where information flows freely. Where people feel free to see/hear, ask, comment, and take care of themselves.35:20 We explore ways that listeners can experiment and play with context in their lives.One thing to try might be to consider the physical elements of the environment and how I am using or not using those elements.37:00 Sharon suggests consider thinking about the context of relationship and what roles we are entering into as it relates to the changing physical environments. For example, a couple with children and a shared business will have multiple roles they are shifting in and out of constantly.39:20 Virginia Satir self-mandala can be thought of as eight different contexts. Feelings indicate the call and need to visit and attend to these different contexts. The 8 elements of self-mandala are: emotional, intellectual, relational, spiritual, contextual, sensual, physical, and nutritional.

19:19 Eva shared a story of when her teacher Judith Delozier first met Virginia. That she was so full of energy of love and connection. Eva love for her family and wanting to heal the pain in her family made her interested in Virginia and first learning about her five freedoms. She was also attracted to Virginia's wish to be a detective in families.9:00 What was the problem/puzzle that Eva was trying to solve or resolve within her family context and family business. She shares that she initially blamed herself and identified herself as the problem. Virginia helped her realized that it wasn't her or her father or the others but the whole interactional pattern that was the problem.13:45 In trying to fit into the family business, Eva suffered a loss of self-esteem and suffered from physical ailments, cervical cancer, which she took as signs that she was not in the right context for her life.18:30 Eva struggled to find herself as unique and separate from the family myth. Eva knew that she was loved by her father, but she describes wanting to connect and experience her father's love through the achievement of success through the family business.20:00 We talk about the difference between the hierarchical model as compared to the seed model which Virginia talked about as related to what Eva was experiencing with herself and her family business. Eva describes that she also felt value and respect across the corporate structure for every person as being of equal value. 26:00 Eva talks about another teacher, Dr Gunther Schmidt, who met Virginia Satir and how he seemed to sparkle when he spoke of her and that this also resonated with Eva. I interrupted Eva to reflect on this idea of spark and to try to unpack what is it more precisely about Virginia that has been so meaningful to people. Eva talks about the common reflection of felt sensing of presence which included the feelings of warmth, connection.29:45 We explore the question of “What is embodied presence?” that Virginia seemed to manifest so clearly. What was unique about Virginia was the way she used herself, how she was able to connect to something deep inside of herself to connect with others and how this came across in her sculpting, her eyes, and her use of touch.30:20 Use of Self is the key to facilitating healing and growth process. Eva describes her hunch that Virginia's mission for peace within, between and among as part of how she was present. What does it mean to feel peace within myself and peace between us and to live and breath and walk that?31:45 I ask what peace means to Eva. She talks about doing her own work to learn more about herself and to take her reactions to others as opportunities to grow. By engaging the shadow sides of her psyche, she can own as many parts of herself which creates peace because those parts aren't projected into the world and creating conflict.34:00 “We connect at the level of our sameness and grow through our differences.” We talk about how painful our differences can be and that the energy and work of forgiveness can help expand us and eventually create peace. Eva talks about the importance of noticing and acknowledging the parts within us that we have not yet made peace with.36:20 Eva describes “parts” as different motivations and emotional complexes such as anger, fear, happiness, joy and sadness. These are the many energies inside that can take on many forms. Eva talks about her professional role and her desire to gain validation at this level as being in conflict - something that felt empty and sad inside.40:00 Eva was yearning to be understood and to have a voice for her deepest sense of Self. She also yearned to have a space for her Self.42:00 “I needed to lose myself, in order to find myself” We explore whether there's anywhere around that tension between losing and getting lost and then finding oneself.“We need to lose and have a crisis to come into alignment,” Eva says.45:00 Eva calls the moments of crisis and chaos in life as “Kisses of awakening” The universe is saying we have a big plan for you. We're going to kiss you away. Something that you're doing here isn't quite right. For Eva, she experiences painful physical manifestation of such kisses of awakening.46:50 Virginia message of nurturing and support in the face of such experiences is essential to moving through the periods of chaos. Eva talks about using a circle of support/love that are people can hold and support you when you don't feel good.48:30 As we move through periods of chaos, and accept them as moments of awakening of changing our relationships with ourselves and with others, we are also increasing our ability to trust the life process and therefore engage more willingly with chaos and unknown.49:20 In Virginia Satir process of change model, she normalizes the experience of chaos as part of the journey. Awareness of such a phase in the process gives some reassurance to people experiencing the pain of chaos just as a map can be useful before travelling to a new destination.51:00 Some reflective questions from Eva during her process of change: “Who do I want to become?” “What is the gift of myself that I really want to share with others?” “How can I heal my wound so that my wound can be in service of the gift?” And therefore become an authentic messenger for this work. Eva believes that if you haven't been wounded then you can't really help people going through difficult times.“Your heart is meant to break open” Buddhist quote.52:33 Eva shares about her meeting with a group of people at a Satir Global meeting and meeting Sharon Loeschen. She describes the love, wisdom, skill, humility and nurturing in the room.1:00:00 Virginia developed a model of practice that was systemic and that was simple enough and yet able to account for the complexity of being human. Virginia put into words that which was very difficult to describe but was felt. This helped Eva make sense of her own experience of her self in relation to her family.1:02:00 Eva highlights the humanistic approach of Virginia and how we have learned to behave and cope with life. The family of origin work helps us make sense of patterns of coping that isn't about blame but empowering new learnings. Eva describes the perceptual world as out of proportion for young people and this sensory difference can be internalized as a sense of being powerless or of the world being scary for young children over time beyond the period of childhood. For example, all adults are taller than children so children need to look up. Virginia would often have children stand on stools to see their parents eyes directly and this experience would be the first time that parent and child communicated at the same physical level, which also communicates ‘equality of value.”1:06:00 Virginia awareness, care and use of the body was unique and something that is distinct from other modern models of psychotherapy. Whether it was making contact, building awareness with sculpting, practicing communication by coaching the eyes and ears to observe with judging prematurely, etc.“The body is a rich resource” Eva explains. The connection to the body allows us to connect to experiences that beyond words and the use of the body facilitates the emotional expression and release.1:11:30 We explore Eva's hope for Virginia Satir's work. Eva hopes for a systemic-relational approach that orients us back to the ‘juice of relationship'. Eva really hopes that the people she works with can really embody and put the five freedoms into practice: These have to do with the freedom to see/hear what is present, to feel what you feel, to say what you see/hear and feel and to ask for what you want and finally to take risks.We also talk about the emphasis on the process of becoming more conscious rather than getting stuck into conclusions and judgments, which Virginia emphasized and taught.Here are some linksHere is a link to the Enriching Program that Eva mentions:https://satirglobal.org/product/enriching-program-lessons-1-6/

Today we have our first guest on the Self-Connection podcast, Stephen Buckbee. I really enjoyed connecting, hearing and learning from Stephen. He demonstrated a strong understanding of systemic work and expressed that through his experiences with the mandala. His joy, passion and positive are inspiring and shine through in this conversation.1:48 Meditation using the various elements of the Mandala: Physical, emotional, contextual, relational, spiritual force, sensory8:10 Our conversation begins. Stephen shares about how Virginia's work influenced/affected him. He found her work to be unique in its effectiveness, its tools. He started working as a social worker in 1973. He liked her way of working with systems. He describes her as congruent and aware of the context (using everyone in the audience to work towards change).1986 he joined one her process communities for 30 days.10:44 We discuss Stephen's observation of congruence and context-awareness in Virginia that were unique. Stephen shared she made contact with clients powerfully intimate and would use sculpting. Stephen described the family session Virginia lead. The family was hoping for a change in the mother and as Virginia worked with the mother, the son observed the audience's expectations of his mother and his own that kept him from seeing that she was always trying the best she could.Virginia seemed to be aware of the parallel contexts: Audiences expectation of Virginia, Son's expectations of mom, Audience expectations of mom, etc.Virginia made the most use of whatever resources were there either in people or in the environment.16:00 Virginia was one of the first people working with whole families systems. She made use of physical sculpts to create pictures and experiences that help us understand what we are experiencing and also how others experiences are different from our own. For example, using sculpts to help people understand the different family experiences based on birth order or across generations.17:45 The uniqueness of Virginia is not to be found in the form or the words but in the spaces between the forms. Her strength was not getting locked into a particular pattern of relating and allowing her self to make a unique contact with unique people at a unique time and place.19:53 She talked with people and made contact with them. I take this to mean that she did not just respond to people in a role or with technique but as a human being feeling with others and allowing herself to feel along with and to fully present and fully human with others.20:15 Virginia gave tools and a framework that helped people change.Context is constantly changing whether we are talking about inner or outer context.Virginia helped teach people and gave them tools so they could understand the parts and resources within themselves and within each other that perhaps they had no idea were there.Virginia was creative and innovative. For example, she would have a woman who was shorter than her husband stands on a step so she and her husband could for the first time have a conversation eye to eye. This demonstrated her understanding of the importance of making physical contact and her belief that people need to connect at a level playing field that is of being of equal worth and value.22:40 We begin to discuss what the mandala is. Virginia liked to say “Everyone has a belly button” and it indicates our separateness and connection. She highlighted the human universals and she made connections with people through these universals. The core of the mandala is the Self and the various dimensions surround the Self. Virginia wasn't afraid to express what was universal wisdom.26:10 We talk about the interconnections between context and spiritual; specifically geographical and cultural context impacts the way spiritual life is expressed. Cultural context can set rules around what you can learn (intellectual). Senses are how we take in information and then this impacts emotional and intellectual life. The important point is looking at and exploring “How do we take in information?” and second “How do we create meaning about what we take in?” Stephen shares an example where a person upon seeing someone who is reminded of memory with a different person in their past is like putting a ‘hat' on that person that doesn't belong to them. Stephen clarifies that meaning exists in the intellectual and emotional levels of the mandala.29:40 Stephen shares his distinction between feelings and emotions. Emotions are hardwired, basic emotions like fear, anger, sadness and feelings are the response to the emotions, which also have to do with our rules about emotions. Emotions can trigger survival reactive patterns and then reactive perceptions “I am inadequate” Feels and emotions are triggered by the meanings we create.Stephen shares a wonderful and useful application of how we can look at family rules across the 8 elements of the mandala to understand the impact of the rule on our lives. For example, if a person has a rule “Don't ever show anger.” What impact does this have on the interactional, emotional, sensory level? Using the mandala as a tool helps us become broadly aware of the broad impact that such limiting rules can have.31:45 Stephen talks about nutritional piece. This layer deals with a fundamental and universal question which is “How do you feed yourself?” Whether that be spiritually, emotionally, relationally, literally, nutritionally, physically, etc. Stephen describes the nutritional element as what we do to be nurturing towards ourselves.We thrive in connection, in nurturing, in love. Stephen says, “How quickly people heal often have to do with what kind of support systems they have.”Stephen talks about the nutritional level as ‘taking in things.” Essentially what we allow into our lives.34:30 We discuss how important it is to note these various layers as processes rather than as fixed forms. Virginia used to remark, “The content provides the context from which to engage in the process of change and it is the process that is essential” Nurturing seems to be a general principle that is part of all layers of the Self. What are we allowing into our lives, our bodies, our relationships? What are we consuming in terms of information, experiences, connections?In our conversation, Stephen is educating me about how interconnected each of the aspects of the mandala are. That each layer offers a resource that adds to the whole that without it the whole would be significantly diminished.When we teach someone to interact differently, to feel their feelings, to be intellectually aware or to shift the perspective, all of these things related to how we can receive something that is positive and growthful for our lives.Imagine if we thought about the principle of nurturing alongside the interactive and that our wish to give and receive things were aligned with the value of only giving and receiving things that meant a value of nurturance.37:28 Interactional has to do with how you talk with yourself and how you talk/treat with others. Therapist help people change their inner dialogues. These patterns are based on their experiences from their family of origin. This layer is where we can explore and understand the survival coping stances we have learned and used (placating, blaming, super-reasonable, or irrelevance).38:30 Stephen explains that we each have vulnerabilities at every level of the mandala and these vulnerabilities is where our defences can be triggered. We will use a survival stance at any layer depending upon where our vulnerabilities exist.39:20 The physical layer is the container for all of our energy that is related to our name. When we get connected to our bodies through movement, this experience of grounding enables and empowers us then to contain and hold our emotional experiences. People experience physical sensation and symptoms that express /communicate from other areas of the mandala.41:45 We discuss how the use of the mandala points to universal that Satir emphasized “Wholeness”. It is in the integration of our various resources that we experience our wholeness.Stephen has an exercise where he has workshop participants try to give themselves an appreciation at each element of the mandala. The areas where there is resistance or difficult mark an area of growth.Stephen describes each of these elements of the mandala as ‘parts' of Self.45:00 The education around the mandala is learning how to use each resource with respect to one another especially at a moment in time of vulnerability, weakness and need.This tool is intended to help people connect to their own inner resources and empowerment.“Therapy isn't something that's done to anyone; it's something you do with someone.”47:00 Therapy might be thought of a ‘resourcing' process, of taking the things that are there and transforming things that are rejected and making them something useful and oriented towards growth.48:40 Stephen shared that Virginia goal was to expand and advance her tools not just repeat her. Stephen shared how he had used the mandala in training staff to be more aware of the wholeness of the people (vulnerable youth) and to look with greater depth and beyond assumed cultural norms/patterns that were significantly different between staff and youth. Exploring these universal dimensions creates a sense of common humanity and deep empathy. The awareness of the mandala within each person allows us to see behind and around behaviour rather than defining a person by what they have done or how they appear on the outside.50:20 Stephen recommends that we also integrate the use of the mandala with our assessment and tracking of the process of change. It seems to be particularly helpful to recognize where the individual is experiencing the foreign element that is creating chaos (trauma) within the mandala.52:30 We talk about Stephen's hope for the growth and expansion of Virginia's work. He talks about the hope and wishes that her work can be taught in college and universities. Stephen describes Virginia's work as transcending mere theory but being a powerful practice model that provides concrete tools. We talk about how her work is relevant in education generally from early childhood all the way up to higher education because her work helped people learn hot to be fully human and to become aware of inner resources and ways of connecting that were aimed at health and growth. Virginia taught at a level that was not full of jargon but was accessible to a broad and general audience.Please visit https://satirglobal.org/ to learn more about Virginia Satir and various trainings and workshops there. Also consider joining the Satir Global Facebook page and connect with the community there: https://www.facebook.com/VirginiaSatirGlobalNetwork/

On today's episode, Tim and Sharon explore the relationship between congruence and the Self, what is also described as “I am.” We discussed how the connection to Self can be an important grounding space from which to process and integrate one's experience. The space of congruence entails thing such as calm, curious, acceptance, love and compassion.1:15 Sharon discusses the spirit as “I AM” and a recent experience that helped her understand “I am” separate from particular roles, adjectives, nouns or functions at a moment in time. Congruence is being in that place of “I am” without characterizations, expectations, and hooks. A person can say “ I am experiencing depression and this depression is not who I am” This space between person and experience and being in the place of life, I am , Self we are connected and grounded in the present moment.4:50 Emotions can become the whole experience and overtake the experience of the Self. The emotions and reactions then become the filter for the behavior that comes in relationship to the outside world. Mindfulness is the practice of creating a detachment from particular thoughts and feelings and not identifying with them.7:30 Congruence is behaving and expressing yourself from the secure base of your dignity and worth. Congruence grows from the connection to “I AM”.9:00 Sharon will ask people how they are relating/feeling towards their feelings and parts and other people. When people have an opportunity to look at their experience and to say what they observe they are creating distance from the part/feeling. Expressing it from the place from Self means there is now a space from the experience. The energy of this process is calm, curious acceptance, love and compassionate. When a person shifts out of survival stance into congruence their body posture, tone, eyes, changes and they can express themselves differently.11:23 Health is the integration and synthesis of experiences which is done with the energy from the core of the human being, the Self or I AM. Sharon invites people to be in space of caring and love in relationship to their experience.13:00 Emotional experiences or reactions need to be taken care of and disavowing and rejecting them is not a sufficient way of integrating these patterns into our lives. We can look at behaviours as entirely negative, but being able to connect to the intention and life in a particular emotion or reaction enables us to understand and honour the need that is beneath the negative behaviour.16:30 Congruence being willing to deal honestly and truthfully with the messiness of life. Congruence has a lot to do with conscious choice.17:15 According to Dr. Dan Seigal, in order to integrate you need to differentiate and link. We discuss what these words mean. The process of differentiating an emotion also requires linking that emotion to the whole person.19:00 Dr. Dan Siegal use of differentiation and linkage is similar to Dr. Jean Piaget's concept of assimilation and accommodation. Assimilation is that which we experience which we can attribute as the similar to our existing knowledge, abilities, experience and understanding. Accommodating is when our experiences push the boundaries of our knowledge, abilities, experience. The ground of this dialect between assimilation and accommodation needs to be based in the foundation of Self-connection. Having the five freedoms empower us to process and integrate our life experiences particularly the challenging ones.23:00 “Always” and “Never” or all or nothing thinking is an indication that we are not in the energy of congruence. These represent parts of ourselves. Parts can be thought of adaptations of living. Virginia would often ask and challenge people to check the limits of what they think should happen.27:00 Being connected to our Self we can hear more clearly our deepest wishes and yearnings. The five freedoms enable us to look at the difficult experiences and then to go deeper to discover our deeper yearnings.Sharon shares that feeling her feelings of sorrow of anger in relation to aging enables her to move through the emotions and acceptance.29:10 The five freedoms might also be thought of five choices. The freedom to choose to see/hear, freedom to choose to feel, the freedom to choose to say what I feel/see/hear, the freedom to choose to ask, the freedom to choose to take a risk.30:50 Life is handing us pieces of a puzzle and what we do with the pieces our integration of those experiences help grow our wisdom.32:30 we slow down our conversation to check in with our own connection to congruence. Tim describes feeling energized and appreciative. Sharon shares her appreciation for life given her health challenges with cancer. She talks about the gift of having connections and that the surgeries have helped her experience each day as a gift.She describes the importance of learning to be more loving and connected to yourself and to others.37:00 We experience happiness and joy in moments of calm, and we experience tremendous growth and expansion in moments of pain and suffering.

0:30 Meditation begins7:21 The conversation begins. We first explore some of Virginia's writings related to congruent living from her book “Peoplemaking” Sharon describes congruence as an energy space to be living and a place from which you manifest living as Virginia described.Congruent living involvesCommunicating clearly new line cooperating rather than competing new lineTo empower rather than dominate new lineTo enhance individual uniqueness rather than to categorizeuse authority to God I've accomplished what it's it's rather than to force by line through the tyranny powerTo love value and respect themselves fullyTo be personally and socially responsibleTo use problems and challenges as opportunites for growth/creative solutions11:30 We talk about wholeness and the free flow of energy as a way of thinking of congruence. Sharon describes her learning from Virginia Satir as she taught about congruence. “We are born whole and we are born holy” Virginia used to say “We are born with our holes open”15:00 We talk about the free flow of energy as related to the transformation of rules. For example having the free to see/hear, feel, say, ask and take risks.18:00 You can't always be open or free of the rule, but you develop a consciousness around the reactive survival patterns. The awareness creates the space and the energy to make new choices.21:00 “There's no cure , only evolution” Virginia had said. This was to say that we never lose our reactive patterns, but we evolve greater consciousness in relationship to those patterns.22:45 : Tim makes the point that our Self, the ground of our being is always there, it's a matter of whether we are there consciously. If we can have a healthy relationship between Self and the experience. To be connected to your Self and to look at your experience you are having and connecting your strength and wisdom is a way of describing congruent living.25:45 Congruence is the alignment and harmony between the inside and outside (feelings/thoughts and behavior). Congruence involves being connected to Self which includes deep yearnings and values/needs.28:00 Congruence is the honoring and harmony of Self, others and context.30:00 Congruent communication is speaking at two levels Role and Self. Where we are perciving and upholding the Self worth that underlies the role. There is always a connection and respect to the essence and dignity of the other person. Our words speak to the role, the function, and the tone , non verbals, speak to the Self. Parenting without communication and honoring the Self is disconnected and unsustainable.33:00 Our non verbal communciation gives messages about our attitude towards the other person and the relationship. For example, a tone of contempt communicates a sense of disrespect and also a lack of contained toxic emotions (anger).34:50 Sharon talks about John Gottman's concept of ‘bids for attention'. We can learn to recognize bids for attention/validation and how we can learn to better respond to them and increase intimacy and connection.37:00 We need to be responsible for being connected to our Self-worth as separate from whether or not people are meeting our needs/bids. If we can learn to be connected to our Self, we are able to be resilient in the face of disappointment and hurt moments.39:35 We talk about the importance of repair when bids are missed. We can learn and grow through the repair process. Tim shares the importance people being in touch with their self-worth, the ground from which they can communicate, notice what they are feeling/needing. When we are too stuck in the rigidity of a role and specific function, we can become resentful and not be able to communicate congruently and to ask for what we want/need42:00 Sharon shares about Virginia's work with a couple and how challenging it was for the woman who tended to placate and ask for what she wanted. She wanted her husband to make the coffee in morning and she broke the rule of asking and voicing her need. She had to step out of the role of being the ‘caretaker' and that she had no right to ask for anything. This example illustrates the experience of the five freedoms: seeing/hearing, feeling freely, saying what you want/need, and asking for it and the risking something.

0:14 Meditation starts5:17 The conversation begins. We explore what do therapist do to prepare themselves for their work and Sharon shared that it is important that she does things outside of being a therapist that feeds her soul .7:00 We talk about the therapist's maintaining a healthy boundary and respect for the others internal capacity for healing, their inner resources as a means of avoiding burnout.11:00 Sharon talks about her experience of connecting to her community through song as a way of grounding and healing and feeding her soul. Allowing herself to be nurtured.15:00 Sharon talks about Virginia's metaphor of the candle representing the light that exists in each person. We talk about support as being the genuine belief in the worth of another human being and the genuine look of awe that comes of that belief.18:15 We do the exercise of “Do you mean?” to demonstrate an activity which helps deepen ones understanding of the other by making the listener work hard to workout possible meanings. This facilitates a separation between what is said and what is meant and helps in building an individual ability to attune and validate another's message.We run through an example to demonstrate what the exercise looks like.24:40 Sharon shares an activity called “With whom am I having the pleasure?” This is where you sit with a new person and allow yourself to look at the sense , explore memories, characteristics and explore feelings , stereotypes, reminders of someone else, third party information, thoughts and projections and to be aware of what comes up automatically without any direct experience. This exercise helped people separate reality from their perceptions/interpretations and also encouraged them to comment on these things openly.28:40 Sharon shares the longer the relationship the more intimate, the longer the database of projections are.29:30 We explore the differences between support in a professional context compared to a personal one. In personal role, people avoid getting stuck in a fixed and rigid role for example as caregiver, rescuer, scapegoat, victim, etc.34:00 the development of supporting skills requires a constant negotiation of role, expectations, beliefs to ensure a mutual and health connection in personal relationship that remains distinct from a professional role.37:20 “The problem isn't the problem; the problem is the coping with the problem” Virginia Satir. We engage in patterns of coping based on our negative experience. For example, we can cope with the situation with our reactive emotion of anger and behaving aggressively to try to get our needs met. The therapist offers a transcendent stance and energy of acceptance, compassion, growth, openness to cope with the problem.40:00 We can shift our identity from “I am depression” to “I am love” and begin to use the positive energy to be a container for holding the painful emotions/experiences. When we are connected to someone in a supportive role, like a therapist, they facilitate that experience with us. Growth/healing/health is in the integration of rejected, toxic and pained parts of ourselves.

Here is a note that Tim wrote in reflecting on their first conversation:There are roles we go into when we are giving support or receiving it.Whenever we are in the role of supporter or supported, we need clear expectations and boundaries to ensure the contact is safe, healthy and constructive.There need to be certain parameters met by the one receiving the support that empowers them to receive supportive energy. The receiver is not just a passive recipient of support; mere passive reception of anything would disempower them.Supporter and supported must engage in a dynamic dialogical process interweaving a sharing and turn-taking of giving and receiving of energy, attention, and goodwill.While the supporter is clearly tasked with listening, attuning, validating, the supported must help the supporter, at various times, course correcting in their understanding by risking sharing something of themselves that corrects, adjusts, or shifts the narrative that is unfolding as it relates to the experience the supported is sharing.The supported cannot remain absolutely distrustful of the person offering support and expect to receive anything. The best a supportive person can do is knock, and create a warm welcoming and hospitable context in themselves and in the space between with which to engage. There can be no forcing in the reception of support.The best a supportive person can do is offer relief of unnecessary suffering. (Ex, the difference between anxiety and fear, or the belief “no one will ever love me” to “I didn't receive the love I needed from my parents”.) The supported is left with moving through the realistic pain and tragedy of loss, grief, sadness, anguish that is there. The supportive one offering a context of acceptance and compassion acts as a midwife for the transformation of painful experiences. These experiences give rise to new growth, insights, and personality transformations that the supported can begin to access and realize having been in a holding space, an interpersonal womb of sorts, that inspire reconnection to life in the face of despair.Show notes:0:47 When receiving support, it possible to experience resistance from receiving it for fear of taking up too much space or feeling shame about the challenges one is facing. We talk about the legacies of barriers that get in the way of connection. These can be thought of as “family rules” like “always be strong and never show weakness” “Don't show others your feelings”1:50 We explore the question “How do we provide support with people in our family who we feel have hurt us or that we have hurt?”3:15 Sharon talks about the analogy of hula-hoops and how this relates to how each individual is responsible for their own hula-hoop, their emotional pain. Sharon critics therapy models that focus on the importance of couples providing empathy for each other without the balance of self-support. People can get stuck in their defences that they are not available to provide support. At least one individual in the couple needs to soften and transition from blame/defence to a more grounded state of congruence before support and connection can occur.6:00 Sharon talks about the power of receiving support from the third party. The therapist with couples creates space to look and connect to deeper energies of compassion, empathy and patience.7:25 We talk about congruence and how important it is in an intimate relationship to be able to say to your partner whether or not you are available to give support and why or why not. The challenge in intimate relationships is the necessity of simultaneously holding space for oneself while also holding some space for the other.8:37 Sharon shares a story of self-support and her grandson demonstrating this. In his struggle with his cousin, he asked for “private time” to get grounded and settled before reconnecting.Tim shares that the children also received the supportive, validating and attuned connection with Sharon which helped them navigate that situation. The supportive context provides a safe space for difficulties to come up openly and to be dealt with intelligently.15:00 Sharon shares her wisdom that we can be more supportive if we can see underneath the reactivity (e.g., blaming stance) to the experience of pain the other is likely having. “What's the pain behind this defence?” that helps her move beyond the defensive mode and personalizing.Sharon talks about some gender differences; namely, that women have a tendency to placate and men blame.The challenge is...For men, it's helping them feel the sadness, scared, loss and hurt underneath the anger.For women, it's helping them feel their anger without going to blame and resentment.The challenge is helping people communicate their experiences (feelings and thoughts) from a place of ownership, directness, specificity and clarity rather than of blame. Instead of “You make me feel.....”, to simply “I feel sad and angry because when I come home and the dishes are always piled up my expectations to receive help from you on this task isn't being met.”17:00 Sharon talks about how distant our meaning can be from the words we use to express our feelings and needs. She describes how important it is to ensure that your words communicate the depth of your experience rather than assuming that your words have made the message clear to your partner. This empowers and places responsibility with the one needing support to be as clear as they can be instead of hoping that their partner can know and mindread without clarity of communication. The one providing support can be empowered by being able to ‘check out' the message and asking questions to clarify. “When you said X, did you mean Y?”, “Have I got this right?” The exploration and curiosity are all ways of expressing compassion, care and support.18:24 Virginia helped people differentiate between what is said, that is the words and tone heard and seen and the meaning and the interpretations that are created by the receiver of the message and how words and tone don't perfectly manifest the thoughts and feelings of the one initiating the message. When people function from their assumptions and interpretations, it is easy to lose connection and to fail to provide support because the two people are not working with a shared meaning.20:15 Putting out energy of trust and goodwill (as opposed to making negative conclusions) is an active choice that people in intimate relationships can make to transform the energy between them and to provide support in the face of difficulties including conflict. Tim describes this as “Wishing for the best in the other person.” That the best character possible that inside the potential of that person could come out. Another way of describing it is how encouraging and motivating it can be when we have people who see us for who we really are and believe us.21:30 Around the theme of support, it is important to clarify roles and expectations. Who is the supporter and who is the supported? What does the one being supported really need? Can the supportive give this?Post Show notes:We don't cause the emotional states of others. We cause the event which leads to the pain. We can be responsible for the event and demonstrate understanding and support to the feelings the other is having but we can not take responsibility for creating emotions in someone else because to do so would be to disempower the other and to overstep our boundaries.We can own our reactions and response to things including our emotions, for hypothetical example, while fear may be a reasonable response to a person perpetrating abuse, I never want the perpetrator to own my emotional response in the present. I want to take that back and even though I can't change my emotional response of the past, I can have empathy and understanding towards it now. I can acknowledge the wisdom of such a response...and now in the present moment, I can clarify when I want that fear response or not and make conscious choices about how I behave.Support of the third party and The importance of community.The importance of family, support from friends, siblings, work colleagues, and parents and grandparents. To help us step outside of ourselves.We put so much emphasis on our partners to be the be all end all, that it's just too much. We need to enrich and expand our social connections so it is a community of support. And we can benefit from the wisdom of a larger group.Sharon describes the children playing in fantasy for 2 hours after this incident. Play is the energy you transition into from supportive context. Play is the optimal state of learning. Support first which means a respectful, accepting, safe context, which Sharon helped facilitate.21:30 Around the theme of support, it is important to clarify roles and expectations. Who is the supporter and who is the supported? What does the one being supported really need? Can the supportive give this?Supporter:Being groundedListeningBeing presentHolding the spaceSupportedResponsible for askingResponsible for giving feedbackTo be their own choicemaker

Show notes:0:00 we introduce the topic as a question, “What is support?” and we will try to answer it based our understanding and learnings from the universal wisdom from Virginia Satir0:58 the meditation starts3:49 Our conversation begins. Sharon shares Jean McClendon's phrase, “Everything is better with support” Sharon shares that being support is offering an energy of awe and acceptance.6:41 We talk about “holding the space” and what this means.-Being truly grounded so you can be there for the other person, and trusting that there is a healing possibility.-People coming into a healing space are often terrified of being stuck in a negative experience.9:42 offering support can be acting as a guide. Encouraging someone to move through an experiential landscape. To go someplace they have never been before.Sometimes it can be scary for the sake of the pain that might be faced and the loss of what is familiar.A supportive can normalize the journey that a person is going through when they are in pain.11:43 We discuss Sue Johnson's idea that one of the things people long for most is that someone could be there for them.“There is a difference between the pain of blame and the pain of recognition “ Virginia said. People can get stuck int he pain of blame.13:00 we talk about parenting. Sharon talks about acknowledging shoulds with clients as a way of helping them experience acknowledgement. She shares a case of someone stuck in the pain of blame and giving her a supportive space to grieve and feel the loss, before moving her to acceptance. Often helping people own their expectations and letting go of a should of the past and accepting what happened can be healing and freeing. In other words, helping people orient themselves positive and constructively between the past, present and future is a way of being supportive. This movement needs to include understanding, empathy, and realism.17:00 we talk about acknowledge as a step in the process of change in being supportive. Support is reflecting back that you are understanding and seeing what the other person is experiencing. “You need to feel that someone else feels you” Sharon eloquently summarizes.20:30 when we fixate on the should, we get caught up in toxic patterns of blame, contempt, stone walling (See Gottman's 4 Horseman of the apocalypse) In order to get out of stuck patterns, we need to be able to soften our shoulds and resentments. A supportive listener can help with this.21:50 Sharon shares about the life of Alexander Wilson who had 4 marriages which were all a secret to each wife. The wife through a process of forgivenss that includes first understanding which leads to compassion.26:00 the importance of having a cohesive story for healing and health. Support is in helping people tell their stories and to make meaning of their experience.27:30 Sharon shares her perspective that somethings are unforgiveable and that she never pressures people that they should forgive. Tim shares two levels of forgiveness with which he works with people. One is forgiveness for the individual and letting go and the second having to do with forgiving and healing and continuing a relationship.

0:00 We talk about what self-connection means and how this differs from self-esteem. We discuss what Satir meant by self-esteem. The Self is an energy that has intrinsic worth and this was the place that Virginia connected to and that helped healing and growth take place in individuals and families. Virginia would talk about ‘Wholeness' and she would help people connect to that wholeness by letting go of feeling and thinking patterns that blocked connection.4:37 Tim leads a self-connection meditation9:12 We continue our conversation. We begin by reviewing Sharon's personal experiences with Virginia's work. Sharon talked about how powerful the experiences Satir facilitated that help her experience herself in new ways that changed her life. Sharon describes that for the first time she “had to look at herself in-depth” and the belief was that this inner work beyond conceptual knowledge was what made healing within and between possible.Sharon shares that she continues to grow in her exploration of Virginia's work.12:00 We read an exerpt from Barbara Jo Brothers' Book “Well Being Writ Large” which includes Virginia's response to what she felt her main contribution to psychotherapy was. Virginia mentions hope (the ability to experience new possibilities), that a therapist needs to be a whole person, and humor/lightness.13:30 Tim shares his appreciation for Virginia's emphasis on being life-affirming and on focusing on growth. Virginia would reframe symptoms as part of life and help move and transform stuck experiences towards new possibilities.15:46 Sharon emphases the challenge of transcending the stuck places of cognitions in order to connect with the worthiness of Self. The experiential parts of therapy are powerful because they help people come into contact with the life, the spirit, that resides inside of them.17:30 Love as a verb and self-compassion can become shoulds. What could be healing and empowering is realizing our worthiness as a beginning and not trying to add to that to earn it or to become worthy.20:40 Sharon talks about Virginia's seed model and how seeds come with the essence of what the seed will become. Virginia worked with people with a sense of awe of that person and this connection at the level of Self and of worthiness creates the context of healing and growth.23:00 “What is essential is invisible to the eye” Mr. Rogers talked and emphasized knowing and connecting to the core self.24:00 Consciousness is the ability to become aware of self, other, context and then to begin to shape, influence and create your experience through the choices you can make. Virginia would often encourage becoming your own ‘choicemaker' or ‘decisionmaker'.25:30 When we are in touch with our Self, our life energy, our perceptual landscape expands. Sharon shares about how she was able to see the beautiful mountains that surrounded the training center on the last day of her training with Satir.27:00 We discuss congruence as the free flow of energy/information within a person and between people and the environment.27:37 Hope is the connection to positive emotions that we can shape things, face difficulties, and express what I am experiencing and we can learn together.28:50 “Everyday is a choice to be open or rigid” Sharon shares. Tim shares the expression of that fluidity in his work with movement in our sedentary cultures.29:45 The connection between Virginia's work and attachment theory/research. The parent-child relationship becomes a mode of being with life and with the unknown.

The episode begins with a meditation lead by Sharon to help us and the listeners get connected to ourselves before we begin our conversation. Sharon shares her experiences with Virginia Satir's work and the impact that it has had on her life.