Podcast appearances and mentions of betty cantrell

Ever wonder why Bob Hope still lands with new audiences today? I sit down with Bill Johnson, a gifted Bob Hope tribute artist who grew up in Wichita and found his way from dinner theater to USO stages around the world. We talk about radio roots, World War II entertainment, and how “history with humor” keeps veterans' stories alive. You'll hear how Bill built a respectful tribute, the line between tribute and impersonation, and why audience connection—timing, tone, and true care—matters more than perfect mimicry. I believe you'll enjoy this one; it's funny, warm, and full of the kind of details that make memories stick.   Highlights: 00:10 - Hear how a Bob Hope tribute artist frames humor to build instant rapport. 01:41 - Learn how Wichita roots, a theater scholarship, and early TV/radio love shaped a performer. 10:37 - See why acting in Los Angeles led to dinner theater, directing, and meeting his future wife. 15:39 - Discover the Vegas break that sparked a Bob Hope character and a first World War II reunion show. 18:27 - Catch how a custom character (the Stradivarius) evolved into a Hope-style stage persona. 21:16 - Understand the “retirement home test” and how honest rooms sharpen a tribute act. 25:42 - Learn how younger audiences still laugh at classic material when context is set well. 30:18 - Hear the “history with humor” method and why dates, places, and accuracy earn trust. 31:59 - Explore Hope's USO tradition and how Bill carries it forward for veterans and families. 36:27 - Get the difference between a tribute and an impersonation and what makes audiences accept it. 41:40 - Pick up joke-craft insights on setup, economy of words, and fast recoveries when lines miss. 46:53 - Hear travel stories from Tokyo to Fort Hood and why small moments backstage matter. 50:01 - Learn the basics of using Hope's material within IP and public domain boundaries. 51:28 - See the ethical close: making sure a “reasonable person” knows they saw a tribute.   About the Guest:   With a career spanning over thirty years, Bill has forged his niche on stage, screen, and television as a dependable character actor.   Bill's tribute to the late, great Bob Hope was showcased in New Orleans, LA at Experience the Victory, the grand opening of the National WWII Museum's first expansion project. In the ceremony, Bill introduced broadcaster Tom Brokaw, and performed a brief moment of comedy with Academy Award winning actor, Tom Hanks. Bill continues to appear regularly at the WWII Museum, most recently in On the Road with Bob Hope and Friends, which was under-written by the Bob & Dolores Hope Foundation.   Highlights from over the years has included the 70th Anniversary of the End of WWII Celebration aboard the USS Midway in San Diego, and the Welcome Home Vietnam Parade in Tennessee. Additionally, Bill has been honored to appear around the world as Mr. Hope for the USO in locations such as the Bob Hope USO centers in Southern California, the USO Cincinnati Tribute to Veterans (appearing with Miss America 2016-Betty Cantrell),  USO Ft. Hood (appearing with the legendary Wayne Newton), USO of Central and Southern Ohio, USO Puget Sound Area in Seattle, USO Guam, USO Tokyo, USO Holiday Shows in Virginia Beach for US Tours, and a Tribute to the USO on the island of  Maui with country music superstar Lee Greenwood.   Other notable appearances include Tribute Shows for Honor Flight chapters in Alabama, South Carolina, and Ohio, the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association, the US Army Ball, the annual 1940's Ball in Boulder, CO, “USO Cuties Show” at the Tropicana in Atlantic City, the Les Brown Jazz Festival in Tower City, PA, and Hosting “So Many Laughs: A Night of Comedy” at the National Veterans Memorial and Museum in Columbus, OH.   Through the years, Bill has been “murdered” on CSI, portrayed Michael Imperioli's banker in High Roller: The Stu Unger Story, as well as, roles in films such as Ocean's 11, Three Days to Vegas, TV's Scare Tactics, Trick Shot, an award winning short film for Canon cameras, and the series finale of Dice, where Bill appeared as John Quincy Adams opposite Andrew Dice Clay.     Bill is currently based out of Las Vegas, NV where he lives with his wife, author Rosemary Willhide, and rescue dog, Brownie.   Ways to connect with Bill:   http://www.billjohnsonentertainment.com http://www.GigSalad.com/williampatrickjohnson     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:23 This is your host, Mike hingson, and you are listening to unstoppable mindset. You know, we have a saying here, unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, and we're going to definitely have unexpected today. This is also going to be a very fun episode. By the time you hear this, you will have heard a couple of conversations that I had with Walden Hughes, who is the president of the radio enthusiast of Puget Sound. And he's also on the on other boards dealing with old radio show. And he introduced me to Bill Johnson, who is a person that is well known for taking on the role of Bob Hope, and I'm sure that we're going to hear a bunch about that as we go forward here. But Bill is our guest today, and I just played a little segment of something for Bill with Bob Hope and Bing Crosby, two characters by any standard. Well, anyway, we'll get to all that. Bill, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and I'm really honored that you're here with us today.   Bill Johnson ** 02:31 Oh, thanks a million. Michael, it's such a pleasure to be here. Well, this is going to be a fun discussion.   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 Oh, I think so. I think absolutely by any standard, it'll be fun. Well, why don't we start before it gets too fun with some of the early stories about Bill growing up and all that. Tell us about the early bill.   Bill Johnson ** 02:52 Okay, well, I was born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, of all places. And I used to say, I used to Marvel watching Hope's Christmas specials with my family that sort of spurred my interest. But grew up in Midwest, went to Wichita State University, and then after graduation, I had a job with an independent film company and a move to Los Angeles seeking my fortune. Well, the film company pulled it in three months, as those things do, and so I was left with my, I guess, my pursuit of the entertainment career from there.   Michael Hingson ** 03:42 So did you what you went to school and high school and all that stuff?   Bill Johnson ** 03:46 Yes, oh yes, I went to Wichita East High I didn't graduate with honors, but I graduated with a B,   Michael Hingson ** 03:56 that's fair B for Bob Hope, right? Yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 04:01 And then I actually went to college under a theater scholarship, wow. And so that, in those days, that would pay for everything, books, class, which delighted my parents, because we were a family of simple means. So that was the only way I was going to go to college was having a scholarship and but as it turns out, it was for the best years of my humble life, because I got a lot of hands on experience in a Wichita State medium sized College, yeah, but back then it was Much smaller, so I had a lot of opportunity.   Michael Hingson ** 04:43 I've actually been to Wichita State. I've been to Wichita and, oh, great, did some speaking back there. And we're probably going to be doing more in the future. But it's an it's a nice town. It's a great town to to be a part of. I think,   Bill Johnson ** 04:56 yes, people are so nice there. And what I. I've noticed living in other places and then going home to visit Wichitas are cleaned. Just something you noticed, the streets are usually pretty clean and foliage is well manicured. So hats off to the city for keeping the place up to date or keeping it clean   Michael Hingson ** 05:22 anyway. Well, yeah, you got to do what you got to do, and that's amazing. And in the winter, everything gets covered up by the snow.   Bill Johnson ** 05:30 Yes, you do get all four seasons in Wichita, whether you like it or not. See there, yeah, it's one of those places where they have that saying, If you don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes and it'll change.   Michael Hingson ** 05:43 Yeah. So, so, so there. So you majored in theater in college?   Bill Johnson ** 05:49 Yes, I did. Actually, the official designation at Wichita State was speech communication, ah, so that's what I got my Bachelor of Arts   Michael Hingson ** 06:02 degree in so what years? What years were you there?   Bill Johnson ** 06:05 I was there in the fall of 75 and graduated a semester late. So I graduated in December of 79 Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 06:17 yeah, but that was after basically the traditional golden days and golden age of radio, wasn't   Bill Johnson ** 06:24 it? Yes, it was still in the days of black and white television.   Michael Hingson ** 06:29 But yeah, there was a lot of black and white television, and there were some resurgence of radio, radio mystery theater CBS was on, and I think that was before, well, no, maybe later in 7879 I don't know when it was, but NPR did Star Wars. And so there were some radio, radio things, which was pretty good.   Bill Johnson ** 06:53 And I think our friends in Lake will be gone began.   Michael Hingson ** 06:56 Oh yeah, they were in, I think 71 garrison. Keillor, okay, it'll be quiet week in Lake will be gone my hometown. I know I listened every week. Oh, I   Bill Johnson ** 07:06 did too. So my interest in radio was, I think, started back then.   Michael Hingson ** 07:12 Yeah, I enjoyed him every week. As I love to describe him, he clearly was the modern Mark Twain of the United States and radio for that matter. Is that right?   Bill Johnson ** 07:26 Oh, gosh, well, I, I'm, I'm, I'm glad to agree with you. And a lot of that wasn't it improvised to his weekly monolog. He'd have, oh, sure, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:39 he, had ideas. He may have had a couple notes, but primarily it was improvised. He just did it. He just did it.   Bill Johnson ** 07:47 I let some of the episodes you take a lot of find a lot of humor in the fact he's kind of pleased with himself. And he goes, Well, look what we just said, or something. He'll do.   Michael Hingson ** 07:57 Yeah, it was, it was fun. So what did you do after college? Well,   Bill Johnson ** 08:03 after college, when I had moved to Los Angeles, after that, did not work out. I pursued my living as a as an actor, which didn't last long. So I of course, had to get a secondary job, I guess. Let me back up. It did last long, although I didn't have enough to pay my bills. Oh, well, there you go. I had a secondary job as whatever I could find, bartending. Usually, I did a lot of work as a bartender and but you get at least doing something like that. You get the people watch, yeah, oh.   Michael Hingson ** 08:47 And, that's always entertaining, isn't   Bill Johnson ** 08:49 it? Well, it can be, yeah, that's true. Back in my that's where I kind of develop your little stick you do for customers to get them to laugh and maybe tip you. My big thing was that you'd always see a couple, say, making out at the bar because it was kind of dark in there. And I would always say, Hey fellas, you want to meet my wife, Carol? Oh, that's her boss. Don't worry about it. They're having a good time or something like that, just to try to get a few laughs.   Michael Hingson ** 09:23 I've done similar things at airports. I know that the TSA agents have a such a thankless job. And one of the things I decided fairly early on, after September 11, and you know, we got out, and most people, and most of the TSA people don't know it. But anyway, whenever I go through the airport, I love to try to make them laugh. So, you know, they'll say things like, oh, I need to see your ID, please. And, and I'll say things like, Well, why did you lose yours? Or, you know, or you why? I didn't want to see it. It's just a piece of paper, right? You know? But, and I get them to laugh. Mostly, there are few that don't, but mostly they they do. And then the other thing is, of course, going through with my guide dog. And we go through the portal. They have to search the dog because he's got the metal harness on that always sets off the detector. Oh my, yeah. And, and so they say, Well, we're going to have to pet your dog. I said, Well, just wait a minute. There's something you need to know. And I really sound very serious when I do this. You got to understand this before you do that. They go, oh yeah. And they back up, and I go, he only likes long searches. If you don't take a half hour, he's not happy because his tail is going 500 miles a second, you know? Oh, great coming. But it is fun, and we get him to laugh, which is, I think, important to do. We don't laugh at enough in life anyway.   Bill Johnson ** 10:57 Amen to that. It's That's my philosophy as well, my friend. And there's not a lot to laugh about these days. And hopefully we can find the humor, even if we create it ourselves.   Michael Hingson ** 11:11 Yeah, I think there's a lot to laugh at if we find it. You know, there are a lot of things that are not going very well right now, and there are way too many things that make it hard to laugh, but we can find things if we work at it. I wish more people would do that than than some of the things that they do. But what do you do?   Bill Johnson ** 11:31 Yes, yeah, from from your mouth to God's ears, that's a great plan for the future.   Michael Hingson ** 11:39 Well, we try so you you did some acting, and you had all sorts of other jobs. And then what happened?   Bill Johnson ** 11:47 Well, I finally got fed up with the whole bartending thing and the rat race of trying to make it in Los Angeles. I did some commercials. I had a couple of small roles in some independent movies, as they say. But on my first love being theater, I hit the road again doing some regional theater shows to where I finally ended up back in Kansas, once again, that the there was a dinner theater in my hometown of Wichita, and I got hired to do shows there. Oh, so eventually becoming a resident director so and my my family was going through some challenges at the time, so it was good to be home, so I hadn't really abandoned the dream. I just refocused it, and I got a lot of great experience in directing plays, appearing in plays, and I met my white wife there. So so that was a win win on all counts.   Michael Hingson ** 13:00 I first got exposed to dinner theater after college. I was in Iowa, in Des Moines, and the person who was reading the national magazine for the National Federation of the Blind, the magazine called the Braille monitor guy was Larry McKeever was, I think, owner of and very involved in a dinner theater called Charlie's show place, and I don't remember the history, but I went to several of the performances. And then he actually tried to create a serial to go on radio. And it didn't get very far, but it would have been fun if he had been able to do more with it, but he, he did do and there were people there who did the dinner theater, and that was a lot of fun.   Bill Johnson ** 13:45 Oh, gosh, yeah, although I must say that I was sort of the black sheep of the family being in the arts. My My mom and dad came from rural communities, and so they didn't really understand this entertainment business, so that was always a challenge. But there's one footnote that I'm kind of proud of. My grandfather, who was a farmer all his life. He lived on a farm. He was raised on a farm. Every year at the Fourth of July Co Op picnic. The Co Op was a place where they would take the crops and get paid and get supplies and so forth. They would have a picnic for all the people that were their customers every year he would supposedly play the unscrupulous egg buyer or the egg salesman. And so he'd go to the routine, was an old vaudeville routine. He'd go to this poor farmer and say, Here, let me pay you for those eggs. That's here. There's one two. Say, how many kids do you guys have now? For the No, five. 678, say, How long have you and your wife been married? What is it? Seven years, eight, they get the guy go, no, 1011, 12, so that was the bit, and he would do it every year, because I guess he did it   Michael Hingson ** 15:15 really well. Drove the farmers crazy.   Bill Johnson ** 15:18 Yeah, so, so humble beginnings in the lineage,   Michael Hingson ** 15:23 but on the other hand, once you started doing that, at least being in the theater was enough to pay the bills. Yes.   Bill Johnson ** 15:30 So my parents really couldn't complain about that.   Michael Hingson ** 15:34 Well, see, it worked   Bill Johnson ** 15:36 out, yes indeed. And I met my wife, so I'm not complaining   Michael Hingson ** 15:41 about any of it. Now, was she in the theater? Yes, she was a performer.   Bill Johnson ** 15:46 We met in a show called lend me a tenor, and she was the lead, and I was at this point doing my stage management duties. But suffice to say we have gone on and done many shows together since then, and even had been able to play opposite each other a couple of times. So that cool, yeah, that's, that's a you can't ask for better memories than   Michael Hingson ** 16:13 that. No, and you guys certainly knew each other and know each other well. So that works out really well.   Bill Johnson ** 16:20 Yeah, that works out pretty good, except, you know, you sometimes you have to have a conversation and say, Okay, we're just going to leave the theater on the stage and at home. We're at home. Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 16:32 Well, yeah, there is that, but it's okay. So how did you get into the whole process of of portraying Bob Hope, for example, and did you do anything before Bob of the same sort of thing?   Bill Johnson ** 16:51 Well, interestingly enough, to complete the whole circle of my experience, when I was performing in Wichita, I got a job opportunity here in Lacher. I'm living in Las Vegas now, to move out here and audition, or come out and audition for a new dinner show that was opening at Caesar's Palace. It was called Caesar's magical Empire, and it was, it was in 1996 and during that time, there was this big magic craze in Las Vegas. Everybody was doing magic   Michael Hingson ** 17:27 shows. You had Siegfried and Roy and yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 17:30 So I came out, I auditioned and got hired. And so then it was like, Well, now you got to move. So we moved on a just on hope and a prayer. And luckily, they eventually hired my wife, and so we got to work together there, and I eventually went on to become the, what they called the show director. I didn't do the original show direction, but it was my job to maintain the integrity of the attraction. So during those years it was that was kind of difficult, because you have to listen to being on the administrative team. You've got to listen to all the conflict that's going on, as well as and try to keep the waters calm, keep peace. Yes. So anyway, doing my show and being interactive, you talk back and forth to the audience, and after it was over, you take them out to a next the next experience in their night, when they would go see magic in a big showroom. And a lady came up to me and and she said, say, I've got this world war two reunion coming up next month. I'd like you to come and be, pretend to be Bob Hope. Do you know who that is? And I was like, yes, he's one of my heroes. And so that was the first opportunity, suffice to say, I guess I did. Should have prefaced it by saying, when the magical Empire first opened, we were all playing these mystical wizards and dark characters. Well, that didn't fly. That wasn't any fun. So then the directors, the producers said, well, everybody, come up with your own character, and we'll go from there. And so I created this character named the Stradivarius, because I like to fiddle the room. I get it and   Michael Hingson ** 19:37 but I played it like Bobby and you like to stream people along. But anyway, hey, I wish I would have   Bill Johnson ** 19:42 thought of that. My approach was like Bob Hope in one of the road pictures. So the show would be sort of a fish out of water type thing. Come on, folks. You know, I laughed when you came in that type of thing. Yeah. So when this lady saw the show that. How she got that inspiration?   Michael Hingson ** 20:04 Well, your voice is close enough to his that I could, I could see that anyway.   Bill Johnson ** 20:09 Oh, well, thank you. Sometimes I'd say it drives my wife nuts, because I'll come across an old archival material and say, Hey, honey, how about this one? So she's got to be the first audience, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 20:23 Well, I'm prejudiced, so you could tell her, I said, so okay,   Bill Johnson ** 20:27 that you would, you'd love to hear it, right? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 20:31 Well, absolutely. Well, so you went off and you did the the World War Two event.   Bill Johnson ** 20:38 Did the World War Two event shortly after that, the met this, well, I should tell you another story, that shortly after that, a young man came to my show, and during the show, he stopped me and said, say, You remind me of someone very dear to me. Have you ever heard of Bob Hope? And I said, yeah, he's again. I said, one of my heroes. The guy said, Well, you kind of remind me of him. Went on his merry way, and I didn't think much of it. Well, it just so happens. The next day, I was watching the biography documentary of Bob Hope, and all of a sudden this talking head comes up, and it's the same guy I was just talking to in my show the day, the day before, it turns out that was, that was Bob's adopted son, Tony Tony hope. So I took that as a positive sign that maybe I was doing something similar to Mr. Hope, anyway. But then, as I said, The show closed very soon after that, sadly, Mr. Hope passed away. And 2003 right, and so there was, there was no real demand for anything like that. But I didn't let the idea go. I wanted something to do creatively. I continued to work for the same company, but I went over and ran the 3d movie at Eminem's world in Las Vegas 20 years. So I had plenty of time to think about doing   Michael Hingson ** 22:26 something creative, and you got some Eminem's along the way.   Bill Johnson ** 22:30 They keep them in the break room for the employees. So it's like, here's all the different brand I mean, here's all the different flavors and styles. So to have a way and you can tell guests, oh yeah, that's delicious. It tastes like, just like almonds or   22:45 something. Yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 22:47 So based on that, I decided to pursue this, this tribute, and it, I'll tell you, it's difficult getting started at first, you got to practically pay people to let you come and do a show. I'd go to retirement homes and say, Hey, you want to show today. Sometimes they'd let me, sometimes they wouldn't. But the thing about doing a show at a retirement community is they will be very honest with you. If you ain't any good, they'll say, man, no, thanks. Oh, nice try. So know where my trouble spots were,   Michael Hingson ** 23:29 but, but audiences don't treat you as the enemy, and I know that one of the things I hear regularly is, well, how do you speak so much and so well. You know the one of the greatest fears that we all have as a public speaking, and one of the things that I constantly tell people is, think about the audiences. They want you to succeed. They came because they want to hear you succeed, and you need to learn how to relate to them. But they're not out to get you. They want you to be successful and and they love it when you are and I learned that very early on and speaking has never been something that I've been afraid of. And I think it's so important that people recognize that the audiences want you to succeed anyway.   Bill Johnson ** 24:17 That's so true. And you kind of touched on a quote I remember one of the books from Bob hopes. He said how he approaches it. He said, I consider the audience as my best friends, and who doesn't want to spend time with your best friend, right?   Michael Hingson ** 24:34 And I and I believe that when I speak, I don't talk to an audience. I talk with the audience, and I will try to do some things to get them to react, and a lot of it is when I'm telling a story. I've learned to know how well I'm connecting by how the audience reacts, whether there's intakes of breath or or they're just very silent or whatever. And I think that's so important, but he's. Absolutely right. Who wouldn't want to spend time with your best friend? Yes, amen. Did you ever get to meet Bob? Hope   Bill Johnson ** 25:07 you know I never did, although I at one point in my when I was living in Los Angeles, a friend of mine and I, we were in the over the San Fernando Valley, and they said, Hey, I think there's some stars homes near here. Let's see if we can find them. And we said, I think Bob Hope lives on this street. So we went down Moor Park Avenue in Toluca Lake, and we finally saw this home with a giant H on the gate. And it's like, Oh, I wonder. This has got to be it. Well, all of a sudden these gates began to open. And we, kind of, my friend and I were like, and here, here, Hope came driving home. He was, he arrived home in a very nicely appointed Chrysler Cordoba, remember those? And he had one, he just was just scowling at us, like, what are you doing in my life? You know, and they drove it. So that's as close as I got to the real guy. But I wish I could have had the pleasure of seeing him in person, but never, never was fortunate enough.   Michael Hingson ** 26:18 Well, one of the things that's interesting is like with the World Trade Center, and I've realized over the past few years, we're in a world with a whole generation that has absolutely no direct Memory of the World Trade Center because they weren't born or they were too young to remember. And that goes even further back for Bob Hope. How does that work? Do you find that you're able to connect with younger audiences? Do they talk with you know? Do they do they react? Do they love it? How   Bill Johnson ** 26:52 does that go? Well, interestingly enough, a lot of times, if there are younger people at shows, they're usually dragged there by their parents and I have found that they will start chuckling and giggling and laughing in spite of themselves, because that old humor of hopes that, granted, it is corny, but there's some great material there, if presented in the proper context. Yeah. I was funny story. I was doing a show at the National World War Two Museum in New Orleans. They were dedicating a new theater or something, and the color guard was a group of local leaf Marines that were serving in a local base, and they were standing there right before they went on, and this young man kept looking at me, and finally he said, very respectfully, says, I'm sorry, sir, but who are you? So I said, luckily, there was a picture of Bob Hope on the wall. And I said, Well, I'm trying to be that guy. And I said, Hang around a little bit. You'll hear some of the material so, but that's the thing I that you did bring up. An interesting point is how to keep your audience, I guess, interested, even though the humor is 4056, 70 years old, I call it like all my approach history with humor. The first time I did the Bob Hope, as in the national natural progression of things, I went to an open call, eventually here in Vegas to do they were looking for impersonators for an afternoon show at the Riviera in a place called Penny town. It was just a place for Penny slots. And they had, and they hired me. They said you can do your Bob Hope impression there. And so they had a stage that was on a one foot riser. You had a microphone and a speaker and a sound man, and you had to do a 10 Minute monolog six times a day every Yeah, do 10 minutes. You'd have about a 40 minute break. Do 10 more. And I didn't do it every day, but you would be scheduled. Maybe they'd have, you know, have a Reba McEntire one day. They'd have an Elvis one day. Well, so I would it was a great place to try your ad, because, and that's what turned me on to the whole idea of history with humor. Because when I started, I was just doing some of his material I'd found in a hope joke book that I thought were funny. Well, once in a while, people would be playing the slots. Granted, they were looking at the machines. Nobody was looking at me. And once, when I'd have somebody who. Ah, you know, crank the arm, one arm banded against and then, or I make the sound man laugh. And that was my goal. Well, there was a snack bar right in front of us with a rail that people. They weren't tables, but you could go, lean against the rail and eat your I think it was called Moon doggies hot dog stand so you could eat your hot dog and watch Bob. Hope so if I could make the moon doggy people hot dog folks choke on their hot dog while they were laughing. That was like a home run. Yeah. But to keep them interested, tell them something that they will know. For instance, Hope's first show for the troops was May 6, 1941 down in March field in Riverside California. And you start giving dates and specifics that i i can see the people in the audience go, oh yeah, in their mind's eye, they if they were around, then they will go back to that day. What was I doing then? Okay, and so you kind of make the world relevant for them. So that's how I approach World War Two, Korea and Vietnam. Is give dates and places, which you got to be accurate, because the veterans   Michael Hingson ** 31:27 will set you straight. Oh yeah, because they do remember. Oh yes, they were there.   Bill Johnson ** 31:33 So some of them and but it's, it's amazing, as you say, you can tell if the audience is engaged by if they inhale or if they make some complimentary noises during the show. Sometimes I'll get fellas who will sit there and ponder just looking at me, and then they'll come up afterwards and say, Man, I hadn't thought about that in years.   Michael Hingson ** 32:04 Yeah, thank you. And you know you're connecting, yeah, yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 32:09 And because hope represented, I think, a good memory in a kind of a rough time for a   Michael Hingson ** 32:16 lot of folks. Well, he did. He did so much for the troops with the military. And as you said, May 6, 1941, and it went from there. And of course, during the whole war, he was all over and entertaining people and and he was also very active in radio as part of all that.   Bill Johnson ** 32:38 Oh my goodness, I don't know how the man found time to sleep, because if he were alive today, he would love social media and podcasts and things, because he was always trying to get his name in the paper or get some publicity, but he never forgot about his audience. He would want to do a show for the troops, no matter where they were stationed or he said I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I didn't try.   Michael Hingson ** 33:10 Yeah, well, you do a lot with veterans and so on. So you've kind of kept up that tradition, haven't you?   Bill Johnson ** 33:19 Yes, I have been fortunate enough to play a lot of reunions and some, maybe some uso themed shows, because that first show he did, hope did, in May of 1941 was they just was a radio show that his, one of his writers had a brother stationed it in Riverside, California, and the war hadn't started, so they had nothing to do, right? These guys were bored, and so he said, Let's take our show down there and hope. So hope didn't want to leave the comfort of his NBC studio. It's like, you know, what's the idea? And they said, how big is the crowd? And they said, Well, I don't know, maybe 1000 and of course, you know 1000 people. And you know, in Hope's mind, he says, I'd give my arm and a leg to hear 10 people laugh. 100 people is like a symphony, but 1000 people, yeah, sheer fantasy. So he said, Oh, wait a minute, are you 1000 people? Are you sure? And this guy, Al capstaff, said, Well, maybe two. So that was it. And they went down. And when the audience, of course, they were just hungry for anything, the response was just so great that hope said, well, where has this been? And he said, shortly after that, we teamed up with the USO and been going steady. Ever since, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 35:02 and that's so cool. And again, you've, you've kept a lot of that going to now, we've talked on this show with Walden about reps and the showcase and so on. Are you going to be up at the recreation in Washington in September?   Bill Johnson ** 35:18 Yes, I am. I'll be there, and we're, I believe we're doing a one of the cavalcade of America shows that sort of incorporates a lot of his initial, well, one of his initial tours over in World War Two. But it's because a cavalcade is a recreation. A lot of it's drama, dramatized, but it's, it's and it's encapsulated you go bang, bang, bang across a big section of World War Two and Hope's experience in Europe. But it's, to me, as a fan of that genre, it's fascinating, so I just looking forward to it. I think it's going to be a lot of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 36:04 Well, we ought to, one of these days, we need to just do a Bob Hope radio show or something like that, and get you to come on and get an audience and and, and just do a show.   Bill Johnson ** 36:15 Oh, that would be great. I would love. That would be fun. That would be great, you know. And if there's any naysayers, you just say they said, Why do you want to do radio? Say, well, as hope would say, radio is just TV without the eye strain,   Michael Hingson ** 36:30 yeah, and the reality, you know, I'm one of my favorite characters, and one of my favorite shows is Richard diamond private detective, and I was originally going to actually be at the showcase doing Richard diamond, but I've got a speaking engagement, so I won't be able to be there this time, so we'll do it another time. But I remember, you know, at the beginning of every show, the first thing that would happen is that the phone would ring and he would answer it and say something cute, and it was usually his girlfriend, Helen Asher, who is played by Virginia, or who is, yeah, played by Virginia. Greg and one of his shows started. The phone rang. He picked it up. Diamond detective agency, we can solve any crime except television. That's great. I love that one. I love to use that.   Bill Johnson ** 37:20 I gotta remember that that's a great line, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 37:24 but it's really fun. Well, so you classify yourself as a tribute artist. How do you really get started in doing that, and how do you keep that going?   Bill Johnson ** 37:38 Well, that's, that's a, that's the million dollar question. Basically, I I found all the archival material I could find, and there's a ton of information on Bob Hope on YouTube nowadays, and you need to decide, are you a tribute, or are you an impersonator? Because there is a slight difference.   Michael Hingson ** 38:04 What difference a tribute?   Bill Johnson ** 38:08 Well, first off, an impersonator is someone who resembles someone famous and dresses up in a manner as to portray them, and that can include a tribute artist who may not look identical to the person, but can capture a mannerism or a vocal vocal rhythm to suggest enough that the audience will accept it. I I do it. I am, I feel like I can capture a little bit of his face with some, you know, some of the expressions people have told me my eyes resemble his, as well as wear a hat or something from try to copy a costume from a picture that is very you feel like is iconic of this character. So if you can come out and present that, that's the battle hope would always he began his radio shows, as you recall, by saying where he was and like, how do you do ladies and gentlemen, this is Bob live from Santa Ana Air Base, hope and and then do a two, two line rhyme about his sponsor, usually Pepsodent, just to get on to start the show with a laugh like Pepsodent on your brush and use plenty of traction and none of Your teeth. They'll be missing in action.   39:39 Yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 39:42 Huge, but, but you to to pursue it. As I said, you've just got to, you've got to kind of forage out in the real world and see if see somebody's looking for a show, and hopefully get someone to take a chance. Okay? Give you an opportunity. That's why I went to that open call to do that show at the Riviera. It is difficult to tell jokes at people that are chewing at you, but it's a good learning ground, plus doing the shows at the retirement homes made you prepared for anything because, but I found that I got the strongest response from veteran mentioned some of those history moments, historical moments. And so I thought maybe I'll just focus on this, not to put together the other comedy. And the other experiences are very important too. But the things I have found people remember the most were those shows for the troops. Yeah, and basically, in a nutshell, and they don't remember what did he What did he say? Do you remember a joke? Sometimes they'll tell me a joke, but most, most times, they don't remember what he said, but they remember how he made them feel,   Michael Hingson ** 41:06 yeah, and the fact that he said it, yes, yeah,   Bill Johnson ** 41:10 there's a there's a common joke I'd heard for years, and a friend of mine told me he was a 10 year old kid at Fort Levin fort, Leonard Wood, Missouri. And hope came out and told the joke. The guy goes into a bar. Oh, no, excuse me. Let me back up. A grasshopper goes into a bar. The bartender says, Hey, we got a drink named after you. The grasshopper says, you got a drink named Irving cute. And I'd heard that. Yeah, I guess hope told it and so you never know what what inspires your comedy, but there's a lot of common things I heard growing up that I will find hope said. Hope said it at one point or another in his either his radio show or on one of his specials. So   Michael Hingson ** 41:58 do you think that a lot of what he did was ad lib, or do you think that it was mostly all written, and he just went from a script?   Bill Johnson ** 42:07 That's a good point. He was one of the first performers to use cue cards, okay? And a lot of it was was written, but from what I've read is that he was also very fast on his feet. That's what I thought. Because if something happened, he would come in with a bang, with with another line to top it, yeah. Well, you know, like we were talking about that command performance, where with Lana Turner that he said, she said, Well, they've been looking at ham all night, and you're still here. Ah, big laugh. Haha, yeah. And he said, Now I'm bacon with the double entendre, you know, like, yeah, you burn me, whatever. But that was, I thought that was   Michael Hingson ** 42:51 cute, yeah, and he, and he is, clearly there had to be a whole lot more to him than than writing. And so I absolutely am convinced that there was a lot of bad living. And there was just, he was fast, he was good at it and them, and the more he got comfortable, because of those big crowds that they got him started, the better he became   Bill Johnson ** 43:16 absolutely you can there's a great book by, I know, do you know Bob mills? He was one, was one of Bob Hope's writers wrote a right and he explains the formula behind a lot of their jokes situation, and then it would have a payoff, you know, like, I don't know what happened, but now that you know this is set up in a setup and then the joke. Hope supposedly liked an economy of dialog. He didn't like a lot of language going from point A to point B to tell his joke. That's why the rapid fire delivery. And he had a lot of jokes in his shows. The radio shows had, at least, was it something like 10 jokes a minute?   Michael Hingson ** 44:08 Well, they were, they were very fast. And there were, we've got a few rehearsals of Bob Hope shows. And clearly some of the things that he did, because at first he wasn't getting the reaction that he thought he was going to get, but he pulled it out. And again, it's all because he was fast. He was good.   Bill Johnson ** 44:29 Yeah, I've got some blooper reels from some of the Christmas specials, and he'll try and try and try. And then finally, he'll say, take that card and tear it up, throw it away. And that's funnier than the joke itself.   Michael Hingson ** 44:44 Yeah, than the joke itself. It's really cute. So you obviously like performing. Does that run in your family?   Bill Johnson ** 44:55 Well, not necessarily, as I said, I'm kind of the black sheep of the. Family, because I was in the arts, they would rather have a more what do I want to say? A more safe career, a career choice as a you know, because entertaining, you're always wondering, well, where's my next job? Yeah, as opposed to something else, where you might have a better idea of what are your next paychecks coming? But I do have always had a day job, and this is sort of like my way to flex those creative muscles.   Michael Hingson ** 45:33 So what's your day job today? My   Bill Johnson ** 45:35 day job is I still do technical support for the good folks at Eminem's world on the script. Only they after covid happened, they closed the 3d movie that I was overseeing. And another fellow, when I do tech support, we just basically make sure the lights come on. And as well as I have a job at the College of Southern Nevada, on the support staff, trying to help folks who have English as a Second Language get a job. So I find those are both rewarding challenges.   Michael Hingson ** 46:15 It's a good thing I don't go to Eminem's world because I don't really care if the lights are on or not.   Bill Johnson ** 46:20 Oh, well, there you go. We need somebody here doing rim shots.   Michael Hingson ** 46:26 Yeah, you like dependent people are all alike. You know, you got to have all those lights. Yes, I don't know that I've been to Eminem's world. I've been to the Eminem store in New York City, but I don't think I've been to the one in Las Vegas.   Bill Johnson ** 46:40 I was actually at the opening of that Eminem store in New York City. Funny story, they know they have people that put on the character suits, right? And when I was there to help them kind of get their get acclimated to wearing those suits and then peering in front of people. Well, the kids were doing around, say, two in the afternoon. Well, the New York Times showed up at noon, one pick they wanted a picture of and so I had to put on the I was yellow, the peanut, and this other person that was there put on the red suit, and we walked down on 46th Street and started walking on the street, wave and and carrying on. I thought, Here I am. I finally made it to Broadway. Yeah, and I'm and I'm dressed as a nut so,   Michael Hingson ** 47:30 and you had Hershey right across the street,   Bill Johnson ** 47:32 right across the street, so I don't know. I imagine her, she's still there, probably still going head to head, to this   Michael Hingson ** 47:40 day, the last time I heard they were so well, I don't know, I don't know whether anything really changed with covid, but the last I heard they were   Bill Johnson ** 47:49 well, more powerful, Yeah, funny story.   Michael Hingson ** 47:56 Well, so you will, you travel basically anywhere to do a show? Are there any limits?   Bill Johnson ** 48:03 Or no, I'll go anywhere. My this tribute has taken me as far as Tokyo, Japan for the USO there. I've done shows in the Pacific and Guam I'm not too sure I want to travel internationally these days, but if somebody has an opportunity, I'll think about it. Funny thing happened at that, that show I did in Tokyo, I was, it was, it was a gala for the local uso honor the the troops who were serving in that area. So they had that representative from each branch that was serving our Navy, Marines and the Japan, nation of Japan now has what they call, this, the Civil Defense Group. I believe that's what they call because after World War Two, they signed that document saying they would not have an organized military. But right, they have their civil defense, and so we were honoring them, that there was a group, an Andrew sisters trio, performing, singing and dancing and and I was standing off off stage, just waiting to go on and finish the show. And this, this has been 20 years ago. Let me preface that this older Japanese gentleman came up to me, and he said, I would like to make a toast. And there was a lady in charge who, you know this was. There was some, some admirals there, and leaders of the Seventh Fleet were, were there. So everything had to be approved. Everything went according to schedule. The military events are just boom, boom, boom. And so I said, Well, okay, I need to ask Judy, when this Judy was in charge, when we can do this? And he just said, I want to make a tow. Toast. And I said, okay, but I have to clear it with Judy. Well, I finally got Judy and said that older Japanese man would like to make a toast. And she said, Yes, let him do whatever he wants. Turns out, he was an admiral in the Japanese Navy during during World War Two, and he was attending the event here, although these many years later, just as you know, everyone else was sure. So to bail myself out of it, I went back on said stage and said, And now, ladies and gentlemen, our honored guest would like to make a toast. And he, of course, I can't remember the toast, but as I at the time, I thought that was very sweet and very eloquent. So it's just these incredible little snippets of life you you go through. It's like, how could I ever know, when I was a five year old kid in Kansas, that Monday I'd be chatting with a world war two Admiral from the Japanese Navy, right? Just, it's just mind boggling.   Michael Hingson ** 51:06 So I'm curious. Bob Hope copyrighted a lot of his jokes. Are you able to still use them? Well, that's a   Bill Johnson ** 51:13 good question. Yes, he did. He copyrighted his jokes and everything, however, and I have spoken to the lawyer for the hope estate. There are the, what do you call that? It just flew out of my head that the the laws surrounding   Michael Hingson ** 51:32 intellectual property, copyright laws and intellectual property and public domain, yeah, yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 51:38 The song, thanks for the memory is in public domain, and hope would always change the lyrics to where he went because he hated the song. Supposedly he had, how did I get hung with that old dog of a song?   Michael Hingson ** 51:52 Yeah, well, he kept using it every week, so I can't believe it was too anti song. Yeah,   Bill Johnson ** 51:57 that's true, but the hope is they did copyright his jokes, but as long as I don't write a book and try to sell them as my jokes, I should be fine as well as I am. Allow you the those laws allow you to present impersonate someone, no matter who it is. You could impersonate your next door neighbor, even though he's not famous, as long as you do not do something to harm them, yeah, or represent it in an unflattering way   Michael Hingson ** 52:28 well, and clearly, what you're doing is pretty obvious to anyone who knows at all that it's Bob Hope and that you're trying to do a tribute to him. So I would think it would make sense that that would work   Bill Johnson ** 52:39 well it should and but the final caveat is that a reasonable person must come away from the show knowing full well they did not see the original. You must tell them. And Bob Hope's been gone for   Michael Hingson ** 52:55 many years. Yeah, 22 years now.   Bill Johnson ** 52:59 So that's usually not a problem, but that's how I finished my tribute as vice is, I usually wear a hat to complete the illusion, with the bill flecked up. I'll take the hat off and say, now if I could break character and tell about how hope was named an honorary veteran, and at the age of 94 it was an amendment passed by Congress designated him as an honorary veteran, and it was received unanimous bipartisan support   Michael Hingson ** 53:30 as it should yes and   Bill Johnson ** 53:33 Hope went on to say, sort of all the awards I've received in my lifetime being now being listed among the men and women I admire the most. This is my greatest honor, so that's a good way for me to wrap up my tributes whenever possible.   Michael Hingson ** 53:54 Do you have, oh, go ahead, no,   Bill Johnson ** 53:56 I was gonna say there's another funny story. You know, hope lived to be 100 Yeah, and George Burns.   Michael Hingson ** 54:03 George Burns, lived to be 100   Bill Johnson ** 54:05 lived to be 100 Supposedly, the two of them had a bet as to who would live the longest. Now, the thing is, what were the stakes and how do you collect? Yeah, because some guy, you're not going to be there. But in any event, George Burns was born in the 1890s and so he was older than hope. Hope was born in 1903 George Burns lived to be 100 years and 10 days old. Bob Hope lived to be 100 years and 59 days   54:41 Oh,   Bill Johnson ** 54:42 so hope. Well, the story goes that in his final, final months, he was just he was pretty much bedridden and slept and slept a lot. His wife, Dolores went to his bedside. He had that 100 years 10 day mark, and she said. Well, Bob, you won the bet. You have now lived longer than George Burns. And supposedly, even though he was fat, he was like they thought he was asleep, this huge smile just curled up his lips so he heard, that's great.   Michael Hingson ** 55:18 That's great. Well, if, if you have, do you have something that you could do for us, or do you have something that you could play or something that would give us just a little flavor?   Bill Johnson ** 55:28 Um, yeah, I Well, if you, I would tell your listeners that they want to catch a little bit more. They can go to my website, Bill Johnson entertainment.com, and there's some video clips there, but I like to do is that hope would always, he would always joke about traveling to the event, and that's how I like to begin my shows with him arriving. Since I just flew in on a wing of prayer. I was on the wing because as a soldier, I wouldn't have a prayer nicely. My flight was very nice, but the plane was rather old. In fact, the pilot sat behind me wearing goggles and a scarf. This plane was so old that Lindbergh's lunch was still on the seat. The fasten seat belt sign was in Latin. To get to the washroom, you had to crawl out on the wing. But I come on, folks, I said, to get to the washroom, you had to crawl out of the wing. But hey, I don't know about you, but I have a fear of flying that dates back to my childhood. See, when I was a baby being delivered by the stork, that blasted bird dropped me from 400 feet. Yeah, he did that to stay out of the range my father's shotgun. See, Dad already had my brothers, Eenie, Meenie and Miney. When I came along, he didn't want   56:55 no moat. I get it just   Bill Johnson ** 57:00 it goes along in those words. Well, we are,   Michael Hingson ** 57:05 we are definitely going to have to just work out doing a radio show and getting you to to do a whole show, and we'll have to get some other people to go along with it. We'll figure it out. Oh, that sounds great. I would buy a lot of fun to do. Count me in. Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful to be able to talk about Bob Hope and to talk about you. Even more important, I'm sure that Bob Hope is monitoring from somewhere, but by the same token, you're here and we're here, so we do get to talk about you, which is important to do as   Bill Johnson ** 57:41 well. Well, that's very kind, Michael. I was hopeful that you would be at the rips.   Michael Hingson ** 57:47 I was planning on it because I wanted to, I want to really do the Richard diamond show. I'll, I told you I'd send you the command performance that we talked about Dick Tracy and B flat, or, for goodness sakes, is he ever going to marry Tess true heart? Oh yes. And I'll also send you the Richard diamond that we're going to do the next time I'm able to be at the rep show. It's, it's   Bill Johnson ** 58:06 really hilarious. Oh, that sounds great.   Michael Hingson ** 58:09 But I want to thank you for being here once again. Tell us your website.   Bill Johnson ** 58:14 My website is, it's my name and followed by entertain Bill Johnson, entertainment.com there's there's some video clips there, and some great pictures of some of the folks I've had the pleasure of meeting and performing with. I don't want to name drop, but just to give the the act a little more credence, pictures with Les Brown Jr. Rest his soul. I did it floored. I was able to do a show with Lee Greenwood on the island of Maui Wow, as well as perform with Wayne Newton at Fort Hood, Texas. Wayne Newton actually took over for Bob Hope with the USO when Bob just got too old to travel. Yeah, so, so that's just for a humble, humble guy. It's some incredible stories   Michael Hingson ** 59:19 well, and you're keeping some wonderful memories alive, and we'll definitely have to do something with that. But I want to thank you for for being here and again. Bill Johnson, entertainment.com, so go check it out, folks and and there's a lot of old radio out there online. We've talked about yesterday usa.com or yesterday usa.net they're the same. You can listen. You can go to reps online, R, E, P, S online, and listen to a lot of radio programs there. There are a number of people we've had Carl Amari on who several years ago, did come. Complete redos of all of the Twilight zones, and he made them scripts for radio, which was a lot of fun. Have you ever heard any of those?   Bill Johnson ** 1:00:07 I've never heard. I was a big fan of the show when it was on TV, but I never heard any of the   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:12 radio. Stacy Keach Jr is is the Rod Serling character, but, oh yeah, Twilight radio,   Bill Johnson ** 1:00:19 that's great. I will check it out,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:22 or we'll send you some that's even better. But I want to thank you for being here, and thank you all for being here with us. I hope you had fun today. It's a little bit different than some of the things that we've done on the podcast, but I think it makes it all the more fun. So thanks for being here. Please let us know what you think. Email me. I'd love to hear from you. Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to get your thoughts wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star review. We appreciate those a lot. Tell other people about the podcast. We really would like to get as many people listening as we can, and we want to be sure to do the kinds of things you want on the podcast. So if you know anyone else who ought to be on the podcast, Bill, that goes for you as well, please introduce us. We're always looking for more people to come on unstoppable mindset that we get a chance to chat with. So hope that you'll all do that and again. Bill, I want to thank you one more time for being here. This has been fun.   Bill Johnson ** 1:01:21 This has been a blast. Michael, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:32 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

As we told the story of the disappearance of Betty Cantrell the one thing that kept nagging at us was the possibility that this case could it be connected to the disappearance of Kenneth Paul Wight that happened just a few years earlier. There are a few similarities to Wight's and Betty's disappearance that could not be ignored. Sadly no one is looking for Kenneth Paul Wight, I Allen County Sherriff's office considers his case closed even though his body has never been located. He is not listed on any of the missing person data bases, even if his remains had been found, we would never know because his case is not being compared to any located remains.

On July 22, 1971, the trial of Joseph "Jack" Shoemaker for the murder of Betty Cantrell would begin. The trial and the verdict would leave the small town of Iola Kansas divided did police get the right man? If not, why did he confess? And who killed Sally Hutton?

This episode is a discussion of the events happening in the early days of the Sally Hutton and Betty Cantrell's Murders. What steps were taken to solve these cases and missteps. The investigators in the Betty Cantrell case announce a suspect is arrested Jack Shoemaker.

On Friday October 3rd, Jimmy Maloney was driving his Motocycle over the Kentucky Street Bridge, looked down into Elm Creek and saw the body of Betty Cantrell floating below. Betty's body would not be the only one located that day just hours earlies police were call to an isolated country road in regards to a report of a women's body lying in the ditch. She would later be identified as, 14-year old, Sally Hutton. What happened that week has plagued this town for the past 53 years.

September 30, 1969, a 28-year-old married mother raising 2 children named Betty Cantrell worked the early morning shift at the Dine Out Cafe. Betty was the only person working the overnight shift, she would wait on customers and then also prepare their meals. There would not be another employee arriving until 5a.m. It was a passing police officer doing his morning rounds said he saw the cafe was opened around 4:30-4:45 am. Betty sitting at a small 2 top table listening to her small portable transistor radio as usual.  When the next employee arrived at 5:00 am he noticed the sign was closed and that Betty's car was not there. Assuming something must have happened and she had to leave and would have locked the door he realized that he did not have keys so he turned back walked back home. When he returned, he discovered that the door was opened although the lights were off. Upon walking in he immediately noticed what appear to be blood droplets. Betty was nowhere to be found, when he looked around, he noticed that the cash drawer was open. The money was missing expect for the coins out of the cash register. The cafe was back open for the breakfast diners while the search was on for Betty.

September 30, 1969 28-year-old, married mother raising 2 children, Betty worked the overnight shift so that she could be home with the children during the day while her husband David worked the day shift as a mechanic. When the owner's son Phillip began his short walk to the café as he did most days. When he got close, he noticed the sign was flipped to closed and Betty's car was not there. He discovered that the door was unlocked although the lights were off, walking in, immediately he noticed what appear to be blood droplets. Betty was nowhere to be found. At 12:30 P.M. on October 3rd, a body of a woman was found a mile north of the Country Club. Officers at first believed that they had found the body of Mrs. Cantrell who had been missing for 2 days. Police would soon learn that this was not the body of Betty Cantrell but was instead the body of Sally Hutton a missing 14-year-old Junior High School Student.

The 2016 Miss America is showing off her skills on social media with her VERY impressive celebrity impressions! Kayla wasn't as impressed as Chet and Maddie, but we think you will be!

In the ongoing nightmare of April and Terry's relationship, the event that catapults them into pure chaos starts on the night of December 6th, 1997. April has been staying away from Terry, but ends up going to his house to ask for the money he owes her. His place is wrecked and he doesn't look so good. What happens next launches Terry and April into an unbreakable cycle of violence that no one was able to stop--except April herself. ___________________ Resources: For pictures of exhibits introduced at trial of the scene of the rape, April's injuries, and more visit okappleseed.org/episode-3-show-notes  LA Times article about Don Carlton's bribery scandal: https://web.archive.org/web/20211117194929/https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-03-16-fi-34784-story.html%C2%A0 TIME Magazine story on Honda scams: http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,3976,00.html Instagram post containing the Affidavit of Federal Judge Claire Egan: https://www.instagram.com/p/CQWQJrUDy-m/ Detailed Timeline of Events in April's Case: https://aprilwilkensblog.wordpress.com/2022/02/12/timeline-of-events/ Sign the Change.org petition to support April's release: https://www.change.org/p/oklahoma-pardon-parole-board-commute-the-life-sentence-of-abuse-survivor-april-wilkens?signed=true Donate to keep our work going!: neappleseed.org/okappleseed Learn more about Oklahoma Appleseed: okappleseed.org If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, use a safe computer and contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at www.thehotline.org or call 1-800-799-7233. You can also search for a local domestic violence shelter at www.domesticshelters.org/. If you have experienced sexual assault and need support, visit the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN) at www.rainn.org or call 1-800-656-HOPE. Have questions about consent? Take a look at this guide from RAINN at www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent. Learn more about criminalized survival at www.survivedandpunishedny.org/. Learn more about the Domestic Violence Survivors Justice Act at www.nysda.org/page/DVSJA. Follow the #freeaprilwilkens campaign on Instagram at @freeaprilwilkens, on Twitter and on their webpage at https://aprilwilkensblog.wordpress.com/. Colleen McCarty is one of the hosts, executive director of Oklahoma Appleseed, and producer.  Leslie Briggs is the other host who is a civil rights and immigration attorney, and producer. Rusty Rowe provides additional production support. We're recorded at Bison and Bean Studios in Tulsa. Additional support from Amanda Ross and Ashlyn Faulkner. Our theme music is Velvet Rope by Gyom.  Panic Button is created in partnership with Oklahoma Appleseed Center for Law and Justice and Leslie Briggs. Follow OK Appleseed on Twitter and Instagram at @ok_appleseed. If you want to continue the conversation with other listeners, please join our Panic Button podcast community on Bookclubz at bit.ly/3NRHO8C.   TRANSCRIPT:    Colleen McCarty 00:01 If you're just tuning in, I suggest you go back and start listening from chapter one. Before we start a content warning: this episode contains accounts of domestic and sexual violence. Today's episode is a little longer than usual, we hope you'll stick with us. It's better for the story. If we tell you this chunk all together, the amount of violence, abuse, and frankly astounding acts of coercive control detailed in this episode are overwhelming. So take breaks when you need to. In early December of 1997, April's childhood friend Carrie was struggling. She had an infant child, and she was about to lose her house if she couldn't make the mortgage. April and Carrie had known each other since the eighth grade. When Carrie called April that night near Christmas in 1997, she was in tears. She was going to lose the house; she could lose the baby. Carrie wanted to know if April could loan her some money, just this once, to help her get out of this financial crisis. April's business had been going through bankruptcy. She'd struggled to show up to work the past few months because of everything that had been happening in her personal life. She was in no position to loan her old high school friend any money. But there was one person that owed April money. If she could get the money from him, she could give it to Carrie. The person who owed April money was Terry Carlton. This is Panic Button, Chapter Three: Hostile State. I'm Colleen McCarty,   Leslie Briggs 01:45 and I'm Leslie Briggs. In this episode, we're detailing the months of December 1997 to the night of the murder on April 28, 1998. It's hard to comprehend the chaos that April's life had become by this point. So there may be some skipping around in this episode because there's just so much that's going on. April had been doing her best to stay away from Terry after what had happened with the guitar neck. She was avoiding his calls, refusing to see him. But ever since April had stopped talking to Terry, unsettling things began happening around her house. April was being stalked. She had a prowler. Prowler was visiting her house multiple nights out of the week. There was often evidence of someone inside the house. At night, April would catch the shadow of a man lurking outside her windows. She even heard someone on the roof a few times. Throughout the fall and early spring, she was reporting the Prowler to the Tulsa police constantly. Curiously, the police would arrive mere moments after the Prowler had run off. April was also having problems with her door locks. Of course April suspects the Prowler was Terry, but the police were never able to catch him. And even though the police never managed to catch the Prowler, April's neighbor, Glinda McCarley, testifies about seeing Terry constantly speeding away from April's home in the spring of 1998. Quote, "It was just uncanny. How, when the police were called, his timing was impeccable. He could be in his car and gone just as they rounded the corner and only on one occasion do I know that they got there before we left." But back to December 1997. April, in her desire to help Carrie, reaches out to Terry about money for her friend's family. Terry agrees to pay April some money he owed her and April would give the money to Carrie. So, Carrie, her husband Alan, and April all go over to Terry's house in early December 1997 to get the money. Once at Terry's house, April notices that he's not looking so good. It looked like he hadn't left the house in a while. He had not been taking care of himself. He had no groceries. He looked like a wreck. In any event, Terry writes April a check and tacts on an additional $2,000. Terry asks April to cash the check and bring him that extra $2,000 in cash. He also gave April his credit card and the keys to his car. He asked her to go to Walmart to get him some things - some groceries, bring him some supplies. Bring back the cash, the credit card, and the car. So April leaves with Carrie and Alan and the three of them cash the check. April gives the rest of the money to Carrie and Alan and keeps the $2,000 for Terry. Then they part ways. Then, as instructed, April goes to Walmart at at first and Louis in Tulsa. As April goes into the Walmart, she actually sees an old high school friend of hers, Shannon Broyles, and that's just classic Tulsa. I mean, everybody knows everybody here. It's a big little city.   Colleen McCarty 04:39 It's actually not clear from the testimony if Shannon saw April heading into the store, or when she was at the checkout. April buys all the items that Terry had requested and heads to the checkout stand. The credit card didn't match April's signature, so the clerk asked to call Terry to make sure April had permission to use the card. April gave the clerk his number and then Terry got on the phone. April testifies the conversation went something like this. Clerk, quote, "Are you allowing a miss April Wilkins to use your card today Mr. Carlton?" Terry, quote, "No." Terry told the clerk "No." Even after he had given April the check to cash, the card to buy groceries and his car to transport everything. Terry tells the clerk to hold April there until he can come get his belongings. Shannon remembered that April seemed scared. To quote Shannon's testimony at trial, quote, "It was in the early morning hours and she - she said she couldn't even talk to me after not seeing me a long time. She couldn't stop and talk to me. Because she had to get out of there. She was afraid. She said she needed to leave. Question. All right. Did she say what she was afraid of? Answer from Shannon. Yes, sir. Question from the attorney. Okay. And what was that please? Answer from Shannon. She was afraid that Terry Carlton, she said, her boyfriend, said his name was going to come up there because he was mad at her for I believe it was using a card and for being gone too long."   Leslie Briggs 06:13 So, Terry shows up at Walmart and who drives him there? The Tulsa police officers walk Terry inside and he stirs up a confrontation. He's belligerently saying she's not supposed to be doing this. Despite the fact that Terry is alleging that April has committed the crimes of credit card fraud and auto theft, he tells the officers he doesn't want to press charges and he just he's going to take her home. So the officers leave, and Terry takes April back to his car and drives her to his house. No one in this situation seems to have thought it was odd that the victim of credit card and auto theft by his crazy ex-girlfriend just takes the thief with him to his car, and the two of them leave together. The police simply take Terry at his word. There's no effort on their part to find out if that his report has been made in good faith or if it's utterly false, which if he had made a false report would be a crime on Terry's part. But no, his word is taken at face value by the police. Now on the car ride home, Terry's mood has shifted wildly. April, looking back now, believes he must have been running out of drugs. He had asked her to make a large cash withdrawal while she was cashing that check for Carrie. And she knew the cash would be used to replenish his stash. Here's April talking about what happened at Walmart.   April Wilkens 07:35 He shows up with the police. All I remember is him telling them you know, "I'll take her . I don't want to press charges. I'll take her in." He probably neglected to tell them hey, I wrote her this $2,000 check -or I mean I - it was more than that. I don't remember how much we got for Carrie off hand right now. And tells them, "You know, I'll take her in." I'm just still kind of stunned by it all. I'm like, "Here is your money. Here's your $2,000. It's right there. You know, you asked me to do this." I remember the $2,000, as I remembered and I and I knew he wanted it for drugs. I was drug money cash, right. So. So we got that. And I remember when I got back to his house, that's when I just took off running, you know? And that's when I locked myself in that upstairs room. And it has a - it's an old house and it has a - you can lock it from the inside or the outside. So he locked me in the room and I had the room locked from the inside. It kind of goes blank from there. And I remember - it's - I don't know how long it was in there and that he - might have to go - I may have testified to it. I don't remember how long I was in there. At some point he tries to get in and he can't because I've got it locked from the inside. And that's when he kicks it - kicks it in and comes in. And that's when he yeah raped me at his house.   Colleen McCarty 09:03 As a small aside April and Shannon's relationship seems to be rekindled after they saw each other in Walmart. April begins to reach out to Shannon and tell her about the terror she's been going through. At one point, Shannon drops by April's house to show it to her boyfriend, a former police officer. Shannon rings April's doorbell but there's no answer. Quote, "April didn't answer the door at that time," end quote, Shannon later testifies. She goes to the back of the house and April tells her to come in through the backyard. Shannon, who lived with April their senior year of high school, knew that April was a neat freak. She was shocked to see the state of April's house. The door to April's bedroom had been kicked in and there was broken glass everywhere. And remember in episode one, when we told you that April called someone from her neighbor's house the night of the murder to ask if she could borrow a guard dog? That was Shannon Shannon had a doberman....   Leslie Briggs 10:02 Let's go back to the aftermath from the Walmart incident. Terry is driving April to his house and April and has a hard time remembering all of the details. But she knows that as soon as she was able to she was running. And she was running up the stairs and into the guest bedroom of Terry's house because it has a lock both a key lock and a deadbolt. And the room could be locked from either the inside or the outside. April is utterly terrified. And she knows that Terry's going to hurt her. And for some time, he has her locked inside the guest room from the outside. As soon as he unlocks it to come in, she locks it from the inside. Here's April at trial, quote, "I remember being locked in the room for a very long time. And then I remember you know, I had locked - I had locked him out. And then he locked me in I guess, and then I was there for quite some time. At some point he beat the door and kicked it in and attacked me. He tried to unlock it to come in and when he saw that I had locked it too, he - so he attacked me." Again, just a quick warning that this portion of the episode details another rape. So if you want to skip ahead, now's the time... So Terry is furious and breaks down the door to his own guestroom. He comes in shoves a valium pill wrapped in bread down April's throat. At trial, April's attorney had introduced photos of the doorframe and the door that Terry had broken down and we'll probably drop those in the show notes if we can get them.   Colleen McCarty 11:41 Terry violently raped April and caused vaginal injuries as well as injuries to her lower back. Her neck was also injured. She was drugged, she blacked out. And the next thing she remembers is waking up in the guest bed completely unable to move. She was terrified thinking that she had been paralyzed. She cried and screamed for Terry to call 911. "Please call 911." Terry must have been alarmed because he actually did call. When they arrived, April tells police that she was raped. Terry told the female officer at the scene that April was just one big bruise. The officers handcuffed Terry. So here we are: a critical moment where things might have gone differently. Terry's in handcuffs for the first time after all of April's reporting to the police. He's going to be taken in and booked for raping April. Finally, the system is going to work for her. Finally, law enforcement have the bad guy. Finally, April is going to get some distance and time between her and Terry and maybe she's going to get away, get help, and get out. Except. That's not what happens. Over the radio comes Sergeant Rick Hellberg and order for this officers to quote Uncuff him and just make a report. Terry is released and the officers do make a report. Officers documented the scene taking pictures of the bedroom and of April's injuries to her chin and neck. They drove her to Hillcrest hospital where she got a SANE exam. SANE stands for Sexual Assault Nurse exam. The exam showed signs of rape and sexual abuse including bruising, redness and a laceration. A female officer from the scene followed after to be with April at Hillcrest and then drove her home. April realized that her purse was still at Terry's. April tells us that she asked the officer, quote, "Can you go get my purse and bring it to me?" end quote. She obviously didn't feel safe going to her rapist's house, understandably. According to April, the female officer refuses. She apparently tells April that she will not go back to Terry's house for her purse because, quote, "Terry creeps her out."   Leslie Briggs 14:06 Later that week, Terry showed up at April's house. April testified at trial quote, "He was very concerned about rape charges being filed and my cooperation. He was very interested that I not cooperate. So he was staying very close to me."   April Wilkens 14:21 And that's when Tim Harris makes a big deal out of "Well you were with him." He came and got me; he had this form on supposed to sign this form that it was not rape, that it was consensual sex and, you know, and like and "I'm not signing this." It wasn't consensual and so he was keeping me with him then till I was signing this form, right? Here we go.   Leslie Briggs 14:41 So Terry intimidates April with a form that he's had drawn up. He wants her to sign it saying that the rape was actually consensual. And until she signed the form, April would not be allowed to leave Terry's sight. Ultimately, April was able to convince Terry that she would not cooperate with authorities and that she would not let the rape case go forward. But she could not get away from Terry. He was coming by he was stealing her mail. We find out later that he was tapping her phones with a small bugging device that he bought at RadioShack.   Colleen McCarty 15:12 Also in the spring of 1998, April begins to spend time with a friend, Luke Draffin. I feel the need to mention that his middle name is Leonidas. Luke Leonidas Draffin. Refined. We heard about him a little bit in episode one, and we may do a bonus episode about him if we have time because he is truly a perplexing engyma in this story. When April is with Luke, Terry leaves her alone. It's been posited that Luke was a criminal informant or an undercover cop. He had connections to an UnderSheriff in Creek County, which is a neighboring county to Tulsa, and he was always packing both guns and drugs. Terry is unusually wary about Luke. When Luke is around, Terry backs off. One might wonder if Luke was supplying Terry with drugs. Despite claiming to be an undercover cop by the time of trial, Luke has been arrested and charged with several felonies. In the spring of 1999, at the same time, April is being tried for shooting Terry, Luke was facing four felony charges: unlawful possession of a controlled substance, possession of a firearm while committing a felony, unlawful possession of paraphernalia, and unlawful possession of marijuana. By the time he testifies at trial in 1999, he's in custody. When he comes to testify, he's been rented over from jail, and he appears in court in handcuffs.   Leslie Briggs 16:42 But back in the spring of 1998, as things progressed with Luke and April starts to feel like she has someone to rely on, Terry's obsession and desire to control April is reaching a fever pitch. April had a set of French doors that open to her backyard from the master bedroom. Terry had broken in through this set of doors numerous times. The doorframe is broken, the locks don't work. April put a bungee cord around the handles on the inside to keep them closed. Then, Terry busted them in so hard that the bungee cord broke and the door handles went flying. She had to stack furniture against the door and boxes of books in hopes that she could sleep without fear of Terry breaking in. Except when he couldn't get in the French doors, he just came bursting in through the front and then April would be trapped. When April's neighbor Glenda McCarley talked to the police, she told them that she would frequently hear Terry's car engine. And, as a reminder, Terry's father owned one of the few Acura car dealerships in Tulsa and so Terry had an Acura NSX that had a unique sound. In any event, Glenda McCarley would frequently hear Terry's car out front of April's house at least five nights a week in the middle of the night. When Terry found out that April was spending time with Luke, he became obsessive and jealous. In the early months of 1998, Terry begins offering Luke money to stay away from April. There's some dispute as we mentioned in episode one as to whether Terry also gave Luke his Harley Davidson motorcycle. April had heard that Luke was riding the motorcycle around town. Regardless, Terry manages to insert himself between Luke and April. The one person April can rely on to keep her physical person safe. We will come to find out that unfortunately, Luke and Terry are more alike than different. Even though Luke was not physically abusive to April he was supplying her with drugs. And, Luke eventually strikes a deal with Terry to stay away from April. Here's how Luke testifies at trial for the state: The district attorney Tim Harris asks, 'Defense counsel asked you why you didn't want to have anything to do with her when she was at the executive Inn on the night of the murder. Could you clarify that? What was it about a person you had seen the one - one time a week for five months that you didn't want to have anything to do with?' Luke answers, "Well, I you know, made the deal with Terry, you know, it was between me and him and it was late at night and I didn't feel like messing with it. You know, I was in bed. I was asleep." Tim Harris says, "the offer for Mr. Carlton to you to stay away. How much were you offered?" Luke testifies "About 5,000."   Colleen McCarty 19:24 It is around this time that April continues to tell Terry she wants to break up. She says she can never be with him because she has a son and Hunter will never be safe with Terry around. Once Terry realizes that it's Hunter standing in the way of them being together, he begins to threaten Hunter and frightened April about the security of her son. She's so afraid that she calls her ex-husband Eric and asks him to file for sole custody. Up until this time, April had been a devoted mother. She didn't even believe in spaking her child. Hunter had lived the majority of his life with April. For her to give up custody was a shock and should have signaled to everyone in her life that something was very wrong.   Hunter 20:10 So she's with Terry, and all of a sudden, I stopped going over to my mom's house for, I don't know, I - I think we skipped two weeks. I didn't say anything. And then the third week, I asked my dad, I was like, the hell are we doing, man? Like, why am I not going over to mom's house? Like, you're pissing me off. I don't want to be over here anymore. She's told me that she kept - she called my dad like, "No, I can't take him right now. Because Terry's is being fucking insane. And we can't have Hunter anywhere near because I think he might hurt him."   Colleen McCarty 20:47 We spoke with a law professor at Wake Forest, who's an expert in criminalized survivorship. Her name is Jane Aiken, and she said that many women will not protect themselves, but a switch flips when they realize their children could be hurt. April told us when we visited that this was true for her. Luke in April of 38 for protection. She remembers having a phone conversation with someone and telling them that even if Terry did break into her house, she would be too effing nice to use the gun on him. But if she did it, it would be justifiable homicide, due to Terry's numerous assaults on her and the fact that he would be entering in her house. Sidenote, April gave up swearing several years ago, so she refused to say the actual f-word when retelling us this conversation. The conversation about her not being able to shoot Terry was recorded on the tapping device that Terry had installed. However, according to Don Carlton's pre-sentencing letter to the court, due to some technical difficulty, Tim Harris was unable to introduce this recording at trial. As Don Carlton, Terry's dad, describes the recording it irrefutably establishes premeditative intent on April's part. Let's stop for a second and consider that proposition. Newly elected district attorney Tim Harris was unable to play evidence that would irrefutably establish an essential element of his case. That is pretty stunning. We've been unable to find that recording it yet but if we do, we'll play it here.   Leslie Briggs 22:28 In early February 1998, Terry comes to April's house, armed with a glock nine millimeter, a billy club, tear gas, and a stun gun. April was in the back of the house and Luke was there. Luke actually lets Terry in the front door. Terry went to the back of the house, into April's bedroom and wanted to talk. When he sat down on one of the chairs April heard a thump. She demanded to know what the thump was. At first Terry refused to tell her but she said the conversation would go no further until she knew what he had in his pocket. Terry pulled out the glock and slid it out the bedroom door before closing it again. At this point April starts calling out to Luke that Terry's in the back, he's got a gun, but there's no answer. April tells Terry he's not to be at her house. She doesn't want to see him. He immediately flies into a rage charging at her with the stun gun. Terry kept saying that April owed him a fuck, and he was going to take it. He rips off her clothes and he has her on the bed threatening her with the stun gun. She's calling out desperately for help. But apparently Luke had walked out when Terry arrived, abandoning April to whatever fate awaited her. April used the only defense that she had that sometimes worked against Terry: words. She said, "If you're going to take your fuck anyway, just back up a minute. Let me relax and get to where I can try to enjoy it." April manages to wiggle out from underneath him as she tries to talk him into stopping. She's able to reach the 38 pistol that Luke had given her, which She's hidden at the head of her bed. Terry is standing up beside the bed at this point and April points the gun at Terry's head. He's enraged and starts to grab the gun. April pulls the trigger but the gun doesn't fire. Terry actually tells April at this time, "I'm God and I am Satan." And April is frankly starting to believe it. Terry is furious, and he attacks April again, then abruptly stops when he hears Luke come back into the house. Terry runs off and flees from April's home. Later after breaking into April's home again Terry steals the gun that Luke has given her. Small reminder at this point. Most legal scholars agree that the law of self defense allows you to use deadly force to protect your life or to protect yourself from being raped. A potential rape victim can use deadly force if she reasonably believes her rapist will cause great bodily injury or death, you can check out 21 OS section 733 to fact check me.   Colleen McCarty 25:06 During this time period April notices that Terry has a police scanner and that anytime she calls police, he is easily able to evade them by listening to their responses on the scanner. On February 21, 1998, the abuse and stalking had culminated to an almost daily terror. Terry had stolen April's keys to her house, the remote to her gate and the garage door opener. Terry called April in the middle of the night, and she said she did not want to see him. "I'm coming over," he spits into the phone and hangs up. April immediately calls 911. Terry pulls into April's driveway and runs up to her side garage door. April can hear him beating on the door with something metal. She's terrified because the last time she saw Terry she'd pointed a gun at him and she knew she wouldn't get away with that. Officer Troy DeWitt of the Tulsa police department pulls in behind Terry's car as he is trying to get in to escape. For the first time since April began calling police after the trip to Rome in 1996, Terry Carlton is arrested and booked in the Tulsa County Jail in the early morning hours of February 21, 1998. Even though stalking was a misdemeanor crime at this point in Oklahoma history, Terry is only booked into the jail for the misdemeanor of transporting a loaded firearm. This is what officer DeWitt wrote in his police report the night he arrested Terry, quote,"On 2-21-98 at 0304 hours, I was radio assigned to 1341 East 35th Street in Tulsa in reference to a domestic with a gun call. Upon arrival, I could hear the suspect, Terry Carlton, yelling behind a large eight-foot fence. As officers approached the residence, I hear a car motor start and a black accurate quickly backed out into the street. Carlton was told to stop and complied. Officials observed a stun gun and part of a Glock pistol that was in a white bag. Officer Anison retrieved the nine millimeter Glock pistol from the passenger side floorboard. And it was chamber loaded and was fully loaded with ammunition. Carlton stated, quote, "I was bringing it" and there's a blank here because it's hard to tell what the officer wrote down on that word. So I'm sorry, but then he keeps going "for her the other day and I just forgot it was there." This residence has a history of domestic violence and threats. Although April Wilkens could not say whether he had threatened her tonight, Wilkens said he had in the past and she felt very threatened. Officers contacted judge Hogshead and an emergency protective order was issued. Carlton was arrested and booked, evidence was turned in on property receipt #A3-2. Before he left officer DeWitt reminded April that even a simple phone call from Terry was a violation of the emergency protective order.   Leslie Briggs 28:13 Officer DeWitt is the only police officer who ever really takes decisive action against Terry Carlton on behalf of April. I know we've been really critical to the police throughout this podcast and I think we have good reason to. But officer DeWitt really is a true hero in this story.   Colleen McCarty 28:29 The next morning, April began receiving phone calls from the Tulsa County Jail. It was Terry, brazenly violating the emergency protective order. April remembered what officer DeWitt said and she called the police again to report the EPO violation. At this time in Oklahoma, someone stalking another person while on a protective order was a felony that could serve up to five years in prison. You can find that at 21 OS 1173, the 1998 version. Still violation of a protective order at all was a felony.   Leslie Briggs 29:07 Officer Aaron Tallman responds to the call. "We just keep expecting to find you dead," he tells April. April shows him the caller ID which shows the Tulsa County Jail and tells officer Tolman about the emergency protective order. Officer Tallman tells April that she's annoying him. He claims that her emergency protective order doesn't say that Terry can't call her. This is of course the opposite of the information that officer DeWitt told her the night before. Nothing is done. And Terry is right back on April's doorstep after he bonds out of jail. April's neighbor, Glenda McCarley testifies about officer Thompson's behavior because she was there to witness it. She describes it as infuriating when he responded to April's 911 call. Here's Geldna McCarley's testimony at trial. Question: "All right, and if you will miss McCarley, tell us what occurred when the police arrived." Miss McCarthy's answer, "Usually, nothing." On the 25th of March 1998, Terry fails to appear in court on his misdemeanor loaded firearm charge. The judge issued a bench warrant for Terry's arrest. And kind of a funny quirk of constitutional law at the time, anytime officers came into contact with Terry, that misdemeanor warrant would have allowed them to arrest him. Except, weirdly, between the hours of 10pm and 6am.   Colleen McCarty 30:30 We have a sight on that it's 22 OS 189 in effect in Oklahoma since 1990. Things are really escalating in the spring of '98. The major episode in the saga starts on April 2, about nine days after Terry's warrant is issued by the court for failing to appear. Terry's just pulled up to April's house. April is running. She runs from 35th N Quincy, west toward Peoria. She crosses Peoria, she's in a church parking lot. She can look across Peoria and see her driveway and see her house and she can see Terry sitting on the road in the street in his car in front of her house. April has absolutely no one else to turn to at this point. Remember, this was before cell phones. And not to mention Terry told April during this time period that he had cut her phone lines. She realized the lines were dead during an altercation with Terry, during which she went to call the police and Terry tells her, "I cut the line. Call them again." Officers later confirmed that her phone lines were indeed cut.   Leslie Briggs 31:44 Also, it's worth noting that around the same time, Terry makes this allegation to April that "It's 500 bucks, baby. That's all it costs to buy a police officer."   Colleen McCarty 31:55 So she's standing there, desperate, in a church parking lot. And she's talking to God. She's asking God to protect her and to please keep her safe. God is her last resort. A small side note here. For those listening who aren't from Oklahoma, we are a reliably Christian state. Oklahoma's religious profile varies markedly from national norms. The state residents identify themselves as Southern Baptist almost seven times more often than other Americans, but Churches of Christ, Methodist, Pentecostal and holiness groups are also much more common in Oklahoma than elsewhere. We also have a high propensity of churches in Oklahoma that encouraged parishioners to pray aloud or even in tongues. Prayer is a powerful medium for change here, and local leaders often asked for prayers when making difficult decisions. I say this to note that talking aloud to God is a common occurrence here. In more religious areas, people often pray over each other aloud before meals, before meetings or before major family functions or difficult conversations.   Leslie Briggs 33:04 And of course, the Supreme Court agrees that this is normal and acceptable and appropriate behavior, even if you're a public school coach. So the religious context here is important because of what happens next. Officer Aaron Tallman Yes, the same Aaron Tallman from before, approaches April in the church parking lot and he witnesses her talking to God. Tallman uses April's behavior as a pretext to search her. In a wrist guard that she wears while rollerblading he finds a syringe. Later at trial when he's testifying. Officer Tollman states that he could have arrested April on a paraphernalia charge even though he could look across Peoria and see Terry parked outside her house waiting for her to return. And I think it's worth reminding everyone that Tallman knew about her history of domestic violence with Terry. He had responded to her house on several occasions, including in February, just two months prior when Terry had violated the emergency protective orde. When Tallman picks April up from the church parking lot. Instead of hitting her with a paraphernalia charge, Officer Tallman calls EOD, which is like a mental health crisis response team. They come out, they check April out, and essentially as I gather from reading the testimony, it's like a paddy wagon that takes April to Parkside Mental Health Institute. So Parkside is an acute mental health facility here in Tulsa. It's around 11th and Utica, about four miles from April's house. So officer Tallman from the Tulsa Police Department had called in what's called a 5150, claiming that April was a danger to herself or to others and he has her involuntarily civilly committed. April was held at Parkside for six days. And during that time, she refuses to let Terry visit her and will not let him attend the civil commitment hearing. On the sixth today, April is able to squirrel the keys to the unit away from the head psychiatric nurse while she's playing Uno. She escapes and heads home. The day she arrives home, she is surprised to find Terry coming in the front door with keys to her house. Terry was armed again with a 38 pistol that Luke had given her. The one that she'd aimed his head back in February. Terry is pissed again. He's upset that she wouldn't let him see her at Parkside and that he wasn't allowed to come to the commitment hearing. Terry's narrative now is that April is sick. And Terry is the only one standing by her to make sure that she's okay. He's telling her friends to call him to check on her. April finds this out later when she would occasionally answer the phone at his house, including on the morning of the shooting, to find her childhood friends on the other side of the line.   Colleen McCarty 35:49 Terry takes April to his house at gunpoint with a 38 he holds her hostage there. We don't have a lot of detail about what happened while Terry was keeping April as a prisoner during this time. We know she could not leave and that he was repeatedly attacking her. She remembers him attacking her on the kitchen floor and attempting to rape her again. Then Terry moves her to the basement and thrusts her onto the couch. Continuing to say he wants to take that buck that she owes him. There was something sharp on the couch - she refers to it as an icepick or a guitar piece. Something that had a sharp end. She landed on it and it stabbed her in the left buttock. April screamed and got up. In the tussle, the remote to the television must have gotten pressed because the TV turns on by itself. Terry is very freaked out by this. Small aside if your people you know use drugs this will sound a lot like the behavior of addicts. April describes Terry as deranged during this time, seeing things that weren't there, somewhat fading in and out of reality. April knows that he told her he was going to take his fuck and then slit her throat and kill himself. While Terry's distracted by the TV coming on, April runs upstairs and puts three of the guns in a black bag. She carries the bag outside and runs across the street to Terry's neighbor, Dr. Laughlin's house. She gets there. And Dr. Dr. Laughlin's wife is home but Dr. Laughlin is not. And she asks Dr. Dr. Laughlin's wife to please help her find the number for Domestic Violence Intervention Services here in Tulsa. She refuses to call the police because of how they had reacted in the past and she was scared that she would get taken back to Parkside. She called Domestic Violence Intervention Services and tells the operator that Terry is suicidal. She was worried he was going to hurt himself or someone else. Because a threat to someone's life is alleged the DV operator had to send the police. When they arrive, they don't just take Terry to Parkside for being suicidal. They take both Terry and April to Parkside and they civilly commit both of them for being dangerous to themselves and others. Terry was released a few hours later, but they hold April at Parkside until April 23.   Leslie Briggs 38:12 On April 23, April is transferred to Eastern State Hospital. This is where she meets a true hero in this story, nurse Betty Cantrell. Betty Cantrell seems to be the first person that April encounters in the mental health system, who doesn't believe she is a danger or psychotic but that she's afraid and suffering from PTSD. What happens at Eastern State is truly a trip. Terry has previously indicated to April that he's the one who had her committed at Parkside, and he's the one who had her committed at Eastern State. We're going to call it ESH for short. Her first call when she gets to ESH is to Terry. She's pleading with him to make them let her go. She truly believes at this point, he's pulling the strings and having hospital staff hold her there so he can teach her a lesson. April stays at ESH from April 23 until the 26th. And during those three days, Carrie tries to visit her three times. Venita is a 45 minute drive from Tulsa and that's where Eastern State is located. April rejects his visits the first two times. On the third time, she lets him come in, and he is absolutely insistent that he sees her. But first let's talk about how he shows up. He arrives in a brand new red Acura with balloons tied to it. He's saying it's her birthday present. He's offering this gift, but only if April will come clean with him about if she's fallen in love with someone else.   Colleen McCarty 39:44 Here's April testifying about this. Quote, "He had been pressuring me. I had, excuse me, I could not have visitors at Parkside. So there was relief there. But he did come see me at Eastern State. I was reluctant to see him but when I did, he began to pressure me into saying I was in love with someone else. And I had told him all along that my feelings for him were independent of my feelings for anyone else. And I didn't want to hurt his feelings. And I didn't want to aggravate him because I - And finally on Sunday, he was very insistent in front of a group of people and also several nurses, he had to have an answer. And I had not said anything to him. And finally, I said - I hadn't said this to him before, because I did not want to hurt his feelings. And I did not want to endanger anyone else. And because I did not want to endanger myself more. And that was I finally said, Okay, I'm in love with someone else, you know? If that's what you need to hear to understand that we're not going to be together." Question, "Was there really someone else?" Answer, "I cared about Luke. I don't know if I was in love with him. But I would never say like I said, Luke, or no, Luke. I was not going to be with Terry. I just wasn't."   Leslie Briggs 41:07 And here's the testimony of the ESH nurse Betty Cantrell, talking about the time that Terry visited April on Sunday afternoon, April 26, 1998, two days before the shooting. Question, "What if anything, did he say or do when he walked up?" Answer from Betty Cantrell, "He asked - told, more - basically told her to come out to the car. He wanted to talk to her. And she kind of nudged me and I said, I'm sorry. She can't go out to the car." Question, "Okay, when you say that he more or less told her to come out to the car. Describe for the court and jury what you observed." And here's nurse Cantrell again. "He was very I mean, he was, he was like a hostile state. He said, 'I want to talk to you privately. I want to talk to you now.' And I said, 'I'm sorry, she cannot go to the car.' And he kept on at her. And I said, 'You can sit right here on this bench with us and talk to her. But I'm sorry, she cannot leave here.'" Question, "What was April's reaction?" Answer, Nurse Cantrell testifies. "She didn't say anything against me telling her to sit down. She sat down. Never had no, she just said, Thank you. That was all she ever said." Question, "How long did this go on?" Answer, "I would say we probably sit there for a good 10 to 15 minutes, maybe?" Question, "All right. And what was Mr. Carlton doing during this period of time?" and nurse Cantrell testifies, "He had cursed at her several different times, telling her that he wanted to talk to her away from where he could talk to her personally. And privately. He did not want anybody present. And every time he would say it, he would kind of curse at her. I tell him no, I'm sorry. She can't." Question "When you say he cursed at her. Do you recall specifically what he said?" Here's nurse Cantrell. "He said at one point, he said, listen, goddamnit I said, I want to talk to you privately. I don't want out in front of everybody else. And I again cautioned him, you know, that she's not going." Question, "All right, what ultimately transpired?" "He started to walk away. And it's an area that from the back of the building where we were sitting, I would say it's farther from here to that wall. It's a little farther than that to the parking area where his car was parked. And at one point, she told me, when he started to walk off, she said, I'm sure glad you didn't let me go with him. And I said, 'Well, why why would you? You know,' I said, 'you can't take off, you know, you got to try to get things taken care of.' She said, 'I understand that. But she said he usually carries a gun with him all the time.' And I said, 'You're not going down to that car.'" So small. Sidenote here after this testimony, Tim Harris, the district attorney asks for a conference at the bench and accuses April's defense of violating the Allen Rule. Colleen, do you want to give us a quick synopsis of the Allen Rule?   Colleen McCarty 44:07 An Allen hearing happens when one side of a case doesn't disclose everything that they have in discovery and when district attorney Tim Harris accuses April's defense attorney, Chris Lyons, of an Allen violation, he's essentially saying that Chris Lyons knew he was going to introduce this fact about the gun, and he withheld it intentionally and that it's an Allen violation.   Leslie Briggs 44:32 Thank you. Harris is very upset about the comment about Terry carrying a gun. Apparently he was never notified by the defense that Betty Cantrell would testify about Terry carrying a gun. Harris is reportedly livid and would like the court to admonish the defense because he finds the fact that Terry carried a firearm to ESH, extremely prejudicial to his case.   Colleen McCarty 45:07 So to close out today's episode, ESH kept April for one more day until Monday, April 27, 1998. They determined she was primarily in need of substance use treatment and that she could seek that help in the community. They sent her to 12 & 12 in Tulsa in a van. As we know from episode one, she ran away from that program and hitchhiked home, which began the final hours of her life before everything changed. Next week on Panic Button, we'll talk about the arrest, the confession, the year April spends in jail. And we'll come through highlights of the lawyers selecting the jury, or as we say in Oklahoma, voir dire. Panic Button is a co-production with Oklahoma Appleseed Center for Law and Justice and Leslie Briggs. We're your hosts, Colleen McCarty and   Leslie Briggs 46:04 Leslie Briggs.   Colleen McCarty 46:05 Our theme music is Velvet Rope by Guillaume. The production team, Leslie Briggs and Rusty Rowe. We're recorded at Bison and Bean studio in Tulsa. Special thanks to Lynn Worely, Amanda Ross, and Ashlynn Faulkner for their work on this case. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, use a safe computer and contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at thehotline.org or call 1-800-799-7233. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Follow us at OK_Appleseed across all social platforms. You can subscribe right now in the Apple podcasts app by clicking on our podcast logo and then clicking the subscribe button. If you want to continue the conversation with other listeners, please join our panic button podcast community on Book Clubs. Join for free at Bit.ly/3NRHO8C. Thank you so much for listening.

The #WalkItOut Podcast with Tricia Goyer Episode #085 Betty Cantrell Maxwell: Tenderhearted in Loss: Shiny Crowns and Hope after Suicide! I am beyond excited to have Betty Cantrell Maxwell on the podcast today! I know you're going to love this episode. For notes and links for everything we talked about on the show, visit: https://www.triciagoyer.com/085 --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/walkitoutwithtriciagoyer/support

Betty Cantrell Maxwell: Tenderhearted in Loss Miss America 2016 Today’s guest takes me back to when I was a little girl in a town called Weed, California. I remember my small house. I remember sitting there watching the Miss America pageant. Doesn’t every little girl dream of that? In this episode, you’ll discover one person... [Continue Reading] The post Walk It Out Podcast 85: Tenderhearted in Loss with Betty Cantrell Maxwell appeared first on Tricia Goyer.

Betty Cantrell Maxwell was born and raised in Warner Robins, Georgia. This 25 year old beauty queen was ironically named after her Greek Grandmother, Baciliky, which means ‘Royalty’. Growing up, Betty lived the true country girl life as her and her family lives on a 675-acre farm in rural Georgia. She knows how to drive a full-sized John Deere tractor, plow and seed fields, and she can even handle a shotgun. She grew up in a strong Greek Orthodox family and attended church all her life in Macon, Georgia. Betty finds strength in her faith and carried this with her throughout her life and pageant career.Betty started taking professional vocal and stage lessons at 14. She loved to write songs but would never show anyone. In eighth grade, she got the lead role in the school play. She was never an A-student, and didn’t enjoy the sciences or math. But when it came to the arts, Betty was first place in all the poetry contests and talent shows. She studied at Mount de Sales Academy for high school and then went on to study vocal performance at Mercer University. She holds a Bachelor of Music Degree in Vocal performance.Betty clearly had all of the roots to make a great national American titleholder, which lead her to join her first pageant in 2013. Her mother encouraged her to join for the scholarship opportunities, but clearly Betty was meant for much more!She held two first-runner up positions in preliminary pageants during her early years competing, and then won the Miss Presidential Pathways 2014 as a major title in the Miss Georgia 2014 pageant.That year she placed as the second runner-up at Miss Georgia with a vocal performance as her talent and representing the platform Healthy Georgia, Strong America. Won the title of Miss Warner Robins 2015 where she advanced to the Miss Georgia America 2015 pageant. Betty then went on to win the Miss Georgia 2015 pageant on June 20, 2015. Betty was awarded $15,000 in scholarship money, plus a Kia Sorento during her reign. Betty excelled in talent, evening wear, and on-stage question, making her an excellent, and well-prepared candidate for the upcoming Miss America competition.This is all very impressive for a country girl who never saw herself becoming a pageant queen! It was Betty’s mom who encouraged her to compete, which ultimately led her to compete at Miss America 2016.Listen to today’s episode to learn more.This week’s featured spotlights are: Titleholders Respond to Voy Board Bullies See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Miss America Betty Cantrell brought her crown to the LadyGang, but did any of the gals get to try it on? There are rules about that you know! So Betty's talking about the rules, her incredible singing talent, her post-Miss America career in Nashville, meeting Luke Bryan, chopping off her luscious locks of hair (for a good cause, of course), and her most embarrassing pageant moments!

The USS John C. Stennis Strike Group arrives in the Republic of Korea for Exercise Foal Eagle, and the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Paul Selva kicks off a USO tour at Kadena Air Base, Okinawa.

Miss America 2016 Betty Cantrell chats exclusively with Let's Talk America with Host Shana Thornton. This inspiring and moving interview is for every member of your household. Tune in!    Please be certain to visit www.letstalkamericawithshanathornton.com. Thank you.  #LTARadio #MissAmerica 

On one hand - The Hunger Games. On the other hand - Miss America. Miss Missouri 2015, McKensie Garber thinks they might have a thing or 2 in common... And in today's podcast, McKensie shares her pageant journey, some killer advice for contestants, and an awesome story about the day she met Betty Cantrell. :)

twitter.com/ralphieaversa I was live in Times Square for New Year's Eve on 95.5 PLJ and in addition to counting down in to 2016, I chatted with Charlie Puth, Miss America and George Zimmer!

twitter.com/ralphieaversa The new Miss America, Betty Cantrell, stopped by "Ralphie Tonight" to chat about how she prepared for the competition, how she celebrated the win and if she is a football fan or not.

The Junkies have just returned from Atlantic City where we saw Betty Cantrell be named Miss America 2016!!!  In today's podcast, Carrie Lakey gives you the play-by-play summary of her weekend - describing what it was like to be at the Show Us Your Shoes Parade, seeing Vanessa Williams in Convention Hall, and what takes place behind the scenes during the commercial breaks!  Caution: There are massive amounts of name-dropping about to occur... Please exercise caution when listening to today's podcast (because the name you hear, just might be your own!)!

Seriously, during the q and a portion of the pageant, Betty Cantrell was asked whether or not she thought Tom Brady cheated? Was that the dumbest question in the history of the pageant? Didn't matter, as she won.