Unstoppable Mindset

A chessboard can teach you a lot about building a business. I talk with entrepreneur and Branded Riches author Neryk Davydov about how chess shaped his approach to sales, branding, money management, customer relationships, and business growth. Neryk shares lessons from selling as a teenager, building a distribution business, creating private-label brands, and developing multiple streams of income. We also explore financial freedom, passive income, customer trust, time management, and knowing when to act fast or study your next move. Neryk believes strong businesses come from understanding people, managing what you already have, and staying ready for the opportunities in front of you. Highlights: 01:57 – Discover how Neryk's early sales experiences began shaping his business mindset. 08:18 – Explore how chess influences the way Neryk approaches decisions and opportunities. 15:57 – Learn a simple system for managing money and building stronger financial habits. 30:30 – Hear how spotting the right opportunity can lead to creating a new product. 38:01 – Discover why understanding the customer matters before trying to make the sale. 48:38 – Explore why money management should begin long before you feel wealthy. About the Guest: Neryk Davydov brings more than 20 years of Marketing, Branding, and Sales experience from a variety of companies like Distributors, Wholesaler, and Retailers. His entrepreneur life has helped 3 other companies to become millionaires before he started his own company because of loyalty. He has grown a company from having 3 reps into 10 reps and causing the company to expand in different territories. Neryk has always been the #1 company income earner and always gave new ideas and product lines to introduce to his company which would quadruple in sales and earned lots of profits for the company. In 2006, Neryk finally opened his own successful company and from that point it was history. The big success started coming when Neryk has invested in his own personal growth and development education learning from Millionaire all the secrets about sales, marketing and branding. One can become rich is when you create your own brand and sell it by the bunches, then you will earn a passive or business income through other people's efforts instead just yourself. Along the way he also started to do Joint Ventures with big companies and CEO's and started to create his own brands and products which went on to become a huge success. He has helped other leading bigger companies to learn lots of skills on branding, and marketing ideas from his products. Neryk has an amazing, passionate, loving wife, Kelly Davydov and two kids Tova and Avichai which was an inspiration to write this book to show that anybody can do anything they want in life when they have their mindset. Now Neryk focus his time on giving back to other Entrepreneur and sharing the secrets to success through helping them Brand their products or themselves from offline marketing to online marketing to see more entrepreneur succeed instead of fail. Ways to connect with Neryk**:** You can find more benefits how Branded Riches can help you build your Brand, Product, Business, and Yourself at https://www.BrandedRiches.com   Connect:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/neryk-davydov Branded Riches Audiobook by Neryk Davydov https://www.audible.com/pd/Branded-Riches-Audiobook/B0GCP9MMRB Branded Riches Book https://www.amazon.com/Branded-Riches-Increase-Income-Irresistible/dp/1987753836 $5 Free Gift for Creating A New Ovato Wallet    www.ovatoCoin.com  About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

A diagnosis can change your life, but it does not have to decide what comes next. My guest Paul Bugeja has built a life shaped by curiosity, career change, travel, creativity, and a determination to keep moving forward. Paul lives with facioscapulohumeral muscular dystrophy, or FSHD, a condition he calls his “dark angel.” We talk about how disability has influenced his choices without defining them, why staying active matters to him, and how personal agency has helped him face uncertainty without becoming trapped by fear. Paul also shares his path from acting and writing into journalism and digital media, where he now works as a quizmaster. We explore disability advocacy, media accessibility, the role of AI in journalism, and the danger of losing critical thinking. Paul's story reminds us that resilience is not about denying challenges. It is about understanding them while continuing to choose how we live. Highlights: 01:10 – How moving often helped Paul learn to adapt. 12:15 – How a gym visit led to his FSHD diagnosis. 20:39 – Why disability gave Paul a stronger drive to live fully. 22:53 – How knowledge of his condition gave him more agency. 38:35 – Why accessible media still has room to improve. 45:57 – How staying present helps Paul manage worry and fear. About the Guest: Working as a quizmaster for a major media organisation isn't somewhere I could have predicted I'd end up professionally, but, then again, life has taken so many twists and turns it doesn't surprise me this is where I currently find myself. Despite early aspirations to be an actor, I completed a double degree in Arts and Commerce at the University of Melbourne, with the final year spent on exchange at UC Berkeley, California. On my return to Australia, not to be denied, the ever-persistent actor in me got me admission to the prestigious Victorian College of the Arts Drama School: the decade or so following saw me immersed in the challenging but exciting life of the struggling actor. This period was also the launching pad into studies in writing, editing, journalism and screenwriting, which I did as I worked in book publishing and wrote half a dozen books, even as I edged into the rapidly evolving professional world of content, digital marketing and journalism. Throughout this entire time, I've lived alongside and managed my “dark angel”—a diagnosis of facioscapulohumeral muscular dystrophy—which has only served to galvanise me further to live a life less ordinary along the road less travelled … And that has made all the difference. Ways to connect with Paul**:** LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/peebee/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi, everyone. I'd like to thank you once again for coming to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. And if you're new to the podcast, we hope you enjoy our episode today. We're glad you're here wherever you may happen to be. Today we are communicating a long way away. We're communicating with Melbourne, Australia, to Paul Bugeja, and Paul is fondly known as a quizmaster. We're going to have to find out more about that, but he's had a lot of interest in acting and media and such things as that, and has had clearly a pretty adventurous life. And again, I'm sure we're going to hear a lot about a lot of that today. So, Paul, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad you're here. Paul Bugeja  01:44 Thank you for having me, Michael. Michael Hingson  01:46 So why don't we start? I love to do this with the early Paul, kind of growing up and how things all got started. If you remember back that far, or at least as far back as you remember, or what you were told anyway. Paul Bugeja  01:59 You know, pretty standard like childhood story for me. Grew up in the green leafy sort of suburbs of Melbourne. You know, did all the things that kids do in their growing up years. My my mother actually divorced my father quite young for me, so that was a little bit of a a critical sort of point for a child to sort of, you know, have to grapple with, but um, it was pretty smooth, and you know, um, it didn't really disrupt my childhood, except it meant that I moved around a lot when I was quite young. So I probably moved about seven or eight times by the time I was maybe eight years old. Um, but I think, in a way, that that that sort of has worked for me because it meant that even as a young child, I had to learn to adapt and change and evolve very quickly. Particularly when it came to meeting people, and you know, as a child, obviously making friends-that's one of the trickiest parts as a kid sometimes. So I think that actually stood me in good stead in in that regard, yeah. Michael Hingson  03:04 Well, I I didn't have to move a whole lot growing up. We moved from Chicago to California when I was five and stayed in the same house since college. I have moved a bunch of times, but those things happen. I understand what you're saying. I'm I'm used to it, but am am of the opinion that I'd rather not move again. It is a lot of work to move, and now also it's just me. My wife passed away two almost two and a half years ago, so I don't want to pack and move again. But yeah, well, we're in a house that we built, and and so we built it really around her because she's in a wheelchair her whole life. So it's an accessible house, but it's a very comfortable house. So I I have no complaints, and and the dog and the cat seem to like it as well. So we're here. Paul Bugeja  04:01 It's a win for everyone, and I think look, that's that's a really interesting. I had this very similar conversation with a friend yesterday about there's a time to put down roots and there's a time to be a you know a rolling stone, and and for some people that's at different times in their life, you know. So I I can understand why you would have chosen to find your comfy spot to settle into and enjoy. Michael Hingson  04:23 Well, and I have a good mortgage rate and all that, so yeah, we're happy with with things the way they are. And as long as the dog and the cat are happy, I can't complain a bit. Paul Bugeja  04:33 Excellent, excellent. Michael Hingson  04:34 But but now you're and and you you're not moving as much around anymore. Paul Bugeja  04:40 Sort of the opposite, actually. I think, like, to to go back to what we were originally discussing. Like, I think having moved so much as a younger person has meant I've lived a life that's almost constantly moving. Like, there certainly have been periods where I've lived for reasonably long periods in the one place, but particularly over the past. We maybe 10 to 12 years or so. I've moved like literally maybe 10 to 12 times. Like it's becoming, Michael Hingson  05:09 it Paul Bugeja  05:10 almost becomes a bit addictive. Sort of the ability to to be transportable when your professional life allows you and your personal life allows you as well. Michael Hingson  05:18 Yeah, I can understand that. For me, I don't want to go through all the rigors of packing and finding a new home and all that, so we're good. But but it it's okay because I can go anywhere from here, and so that works out pretty well. So I'm I'm content, and that that's the way it it should be. So we'll see how it all goes. But I'm glad that you did well, so you grew up, had kind of a normal life, even though you moved around a lot. Yeah, did all the things that that that kids do growing up, and so on. And where did you go to college, or did you? Paul Bugeja  05:53 Yeah, so I my original, I've I was a bit of a perpetual student for probably you know the first several decades as an adult, my original degree was from the University of Melbourne, which is one of the sort of larger universities in both Melbourne and Australia, and I did a double degree in arts and commerce. But you know, I had long wanted to be an actor, and so originally, like when I finished high school, my my intention was to audition for drama school. But my mother very wisely convinced me to go to university first, and then check that out. And if I didn't like it, then maybe audition for drama school a bit later on. And it was, as mothers can be on most occasions, very sagely advice from her, because the thing that she wasn't aware of was that even though I I definitely enjoyed the academic aspect of my studies at MLB Uni, it has a very strong theater department as well, and very big names have actually been through there and gone on to bigger and better things, namely Kate Blanchett. She was one of my colleagues back in the day. So you know, it was a it was a proving ground for talent. And so I did a lot of theater during my my studies at the University of Melbourne while completing the academic side as well. So I never quite lost that sort of underlying desire to maybe go on and and study acting and maybe do some acting. I actually completed the final year of my degree at Cal at UC Berkeley, which was an amazing experience, and sort of also launched me into the next part of my life. So that that was at a time when you know, like I think in a lot of ways, more and more students were traveling between countries to study. It was becoming a real thing to study overseas, so it was such an amazing experience to finish at Cal. Michael Hingson  07:48 So, do you keep in touch with Kate at Paul Bugeja  07:52 all? Haven't seen Kate in probably maybe 20 years or so. We kept in contact during the beginning of her career, of course, and then you know that life has taken her to such places that it's almost impossible to keep Michael Hingson  08:07 touch, right? Paul Bugeja  08:08 That's right. But you know, I dare say, if I think she's probably maintained the sort of personality and character that she had when I knew her, which would mean that if I bumped into her on the street and I said hello and gave her a bit of a nudge about where we knew each other from. She'd be the first one to lean into that and and you know be quite happy to reminisce on old times as you know she's not an aloof sort of person. I think that's my feel about her, even given her amazing success. Michael Hingson  08:37 I've never had that impression of her either, so I I'm with you. Well, that's pretty cool. What What took you to Berkeley for your last year? Paul Bugeja  08:45 Yeah, so I actually started working during my studies on campus at the university, and I worked in the international student office. So I was dealing with a lot of incoming study abroad and exchange students, which meant I began to have a real desire to do the same thing myself, and initially I was looking at a couple of other universities like Georgetown. I think NYU was one of the options, and I actually met a guy from Cal who was like, "You should come to Berkeley and study. It's an amazing institution. You'll love California. It's so similar to Australia, and I'd I'd I'd actually been to California before my first overseas trip when I was 19, and so I had a taste of California already. So initially, I was looking at the whole sort of Cal system, the whole you know UC system. So I looked at UCLA, UC San UCSJ maybe and anyway yeah and and then I fell and I fell in Berkeley as the final one just because what a great city to live outside of you know San Francisco's such a beautiful city and and yeah so I ended up spending an entire year there which was just like you know life defining. Michael Hingson  09:57 What'd your mom think of that? Paul Bugeja  10:00 Yeah, typical of mum's. There was a lot of tears at the airport, but you know, and this was you know like at a time when social media was really not even happening, so it was all about the phone calls regularly. But she was happy. She's I'm very lucky in that, even though I'm an only child, mum's not a clingy a clingy mum, you know, she has always encouraged me to just go out and do everything that I possibly can, and and she would never, she would rarely, you know, get get in the way of me living out my life and my dreams. Michael Hingson  10:33 Do you still? Is she still here? Paul Bugeja  10:35 She is. Yep, she's um 78, so she's you know I'm still a youngish older person, and even though we don't, we sort of you know like see each other as much as maybe I'd like because we don't live in the same place. You know, we we talk every two days or so on the phone, and I stay in regular contact. And yeah, it's it's still a very very strong relationship. Michael Hingson  10:56 That's cool. That that's a good thing though. So you you went to Berkeley. You were here. You were out here in California for a year, and then what happened? Paul Bugeja  11:05 Well, I actually I bounced back to Australia, feeling very encouraged to to follow my acting pursuits because I I did a couple of shows at when I was at Cal. I did one drama class as well in the drama department, you know, made some lifetime friendships and and felt very connected to myself as an actor again. And so, even though originally my plans were to apply to become a diplomat through the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the acting thing was a bit too strong. So I came back and and felt a little not torn, but certainly I had to I had to weigh up the competing desire to want to be an actor against the fact that I had a great degree that I could maybe go on and do something completely different with. So in fact, I spent a year thinking about that and ended up quite on a different track and enrolled in a master's of environmental studies, which you know was something that interested me definitely. And but decided that I would, in addition to drama school as well, which I did do, and I got into. So I did one year of that master's, and then I went on to study at the Victorian College of the Arts, which is one of the big three drama schools in Australia, and so I finally got to that took that circuitous route to drama school, despite my mum's earlier advice, and she was happy because you know I got there under my own auspices in terms of I'd made a decision as an adult to finally get there, rather than maybe as an excited teenager who you know could obviously do so many things, and so I had both the academic degree, and now I was into a program that I'd always wanted to sort of be involved with. Michael Hingson  12:49 Right. Well, and and that that's fine. That makes sense. Yes. So I'm not sure when to bring this up. So I'll bring it up now. Sure. Tell us about your dark angel. Paul Bugeja  13:01 Yeah, absolutely. So probably in my in my in my late 20s, I started working at a university in back at University of Melbourne. Actually, my old alma mater, and by then, you know, I was actually you know sort of I I was doing some acting, you know, some professional acting, not a lot of it, but enough to sort of be remain interested. So I needed a part time job on the side, you know, to to keep it going as most actors do. And when I started working at the university, I became very interested in fitness as well. I joined a gym and started going to the gym there and made some sort of friends with the local personal trainers. And one day I was doing some training and on one of the big, big sort of bouncy medicine balls that you can sit on for balance and training work, and one of the instructors came up to me and said, "Do you realize that your scapular wings? And I was firstly thinking, "Well, what the hell is my scapular? And then I sort of made sense that it was my shoulders, you know. And and I said, "What do you mean? He said, "Well, when you do upper body workouts, your scapula has quite a lot of movement in it, and it's quite visible. Now, I've always been a very thin person, like I've always sort of been. We've joked about being a tall, skinny dude, you know, and and so I I'd never thought anything about maybe the fact that my my shoulder blades were a bit more prominent. I figured that was because I was a slim person, you know. Of course, so he recommended I see a physiotherapist, and I did. I saw a sports physio in case I'd injured myself or there was some underlying issue. After a couple of sessions with a sports physio. I was referred to a neurologist because the sports physio had some inklings about it may be being a neurological condition potentially of some kind, but had no idea what it might be. And this is when I guess my dark angel first really. Began alerting me to its presence in the background of my life, and I'll explain why I call it my dark angel in a moment. Yeah, the neurologist and I did some tests, and I went in for a biopsy, a muscle biopsy, and I was diagnosed with one of the variants of muscular dystrophy, which is fascioscapiohumeral muscular dystrophy, so it affects the face, the humerus, and the scapula, but in general affects the muscles across the body. It's a degenerative neuromuscular disease. It's not that common; about one in 8000 have it. So you know, enough people have it that it's out there. Some people live with live with it their entire lives and don't know they have it for the reasons that I've just sort of elaborated on, which are it can it can be there but be so minor that you just think it's because you're a slim person or you don't have much you don't go to the gym so you don't work out so your muscles aren't growing or whatever. So yeah, and I was not that thrown by it at the time. It was it was in our family, so it wasn't that much of a surprise to me that maybe I had it. Given that another family member, even though they're quite distant on the family tree for me, also had it, and yeah, I began to just think about you know like what life would be like with this condition, and you know began to have regular sort of checks with the neurologist and you know other sort of allied health professionals around how to manage that. Luckily, it was very my and still is very mild in terms of how severe that it can be. But as I sort of began thinking more about my professional life. I I actually took on a an editing and writing degree and a screenwriting degree as I started to move away from acting because I figured I am a creative person. I love writing and I want to improve my craft. I was interested in journalism as well and I could do that as part of this degree. Paul Bugeja  16:58 So I started studying and that then led to me actually writing a couple of books, four or five books, working as an editor, and then at one point I began thinking, I think I need to write my own book about my journey with this condition, or you know, disability, whatever you want to call it. And I had watched the TV show Dexter, which you may or may not have watched. Yep, and Dexter talks about his dark passenger. You know, as and that's the the sort of I mean, it's a weird correlation. I know in some ways, but that's the serial killer in him. That's his dark passenger. But it really resonated as um this idea of there being this sort of passenger in your life. You know, for whatever reason, whatever it is, and I didn't obviously want to steal that sort of figurative term, but I began thinking about a dark angel instead because, for me, it's a double thing. I mean, I was whatever Catholic. I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore, but you know, the notions of angels around us is something you know we all sort of think about, I guess. But the notion of my scapular wing and those being wings as well was very sort of resonated with me, and so I began feeling that for me my entire life this dark angel had been somewhere in the background, very very far in the background to the point where I wasn't even really aware of that dark angel, and then of course when the diagnosis came along, the dark angel began to make its presence more known, and yeah, and and then over time, I'm very, I live with, you know, like anyone with any sort of disability or chronic medical condition, like you live with it 24/7, and some days it's more of a burden, other days you don't not even aware of it, but you have to learn to live with it, and and so I now feel like I have this sort of dance with the dark angel, I like to call it, who sometimes is more present in my life and sometimes much more in the background. Michael Hingson  18:53 So, what kinds of things does it sort of limit you, or what what do you have to do to to make sure you don't let it get too much of a control over you. Paul Bugeja  19:04 Sure. So for me, the biggest thing I ever did was start going to the gym. You know, I did that just out of pure practicality because there was a gym on campus. It was very easy to join it. It was very close to go to on my lunch break, and so I've now maintained a really rigorous gym schedule, even though my upper body strength is quite weak and limited. I've been able to, I think, the my GP and say allied healthcare professionals like physios and exercise physiologists and occupational therapists have all commented that my gym program is one of the things that may you know this it's a may but may have prevented the condition progressing more severely than it has. So staying fit has been really important. I think by nature, I like to call myself a pragmatic optimist or optimistic pragmatist. By nature, I'm a practical person. I sort of feel as though, unlike I mean, look, everyone manages the news of some sort of health situation differently. You know, some people it can lay low, and I understand why because it can be very confronting, and every condition has a different set of limitations, like you know, it can be quite severe for some people. Like my my cousin had a different form of muscular dystrophy, Duchenne muscular dystrophy, which meant that he was in a wheelchair from the age of five and died at the age of 28. So you know, like like in my case, I feel blessed on some level that my condition is slowly deteriorating, but I do think that I'm lucky that I have enough of a practical and positive attitude about not letting it. I don't call, I never ignore it or or deny it, but I call about. I just resist it. The resistance is there. Like I I push back against it. So mentally, I try to stay positive physically. I try to stay healthy, but you know it does limit me. I have part of the condition. I have something called foot drop, which means that my feet catch a lot as I walk. So I trip a lot. So I I have damaged elbows and knees a lot because of that. So as a consequence, I have to be conscious when I walk. It's not just a. It's not like for most people, walking is an unconscious action. Of course, for me, it's a conscious action to ensure that I trip less. And of course, as I get older, tripping becomes a thing as you get older anyway, because you know your muscle tone changes and you know all kinds of things. So you know, it's about almost in a way you have to become. You do have to be aware of it all the time, and you have to manage it all the time. But that doesn't mean it has to become a burden. I think in many ways it's pushed me the other way, which is it's made me have a lust for life. It's made me want to do more. It's it's probably pushed me to be more nomadic while I can be, just in case there's a point where I can't be, and that sounds a little bit sad, and I mean probably in some ways, but I see that as a positive. Like a really small example I can give you is whenever I visit my mum, like I don't drive, so I use public transport like trains and busses and and the like. And if I catch a train to to go visit my mum, she always insists I'll come and pick you up at the at the train station, rather than you walk to my place, and I insist every time I'm going to walk because while I can walk, I want to walk. You know, so I don't. It's not. I reject. I don't reject her kindness, and I understand it. But it's me saying to the dark angel, "No, I will. Does she? Michael Hingson  22:36 Does she understand Paul Bugeja  22:38 it? I think so on some level, but she still Michael Hingson  22:41 wants to come and get you. Of course, Paul Bugeja  22:43 she does. Of course, there can be the tiniest trickle of rain, and she's like, "Oh, you can't walk in that rain. You know, I've got an umbrella, mum. No, no, no. You know, it's all that stuff. Um, it's it's delightful of her, and I'm glad, and I'll always expect the offer in those situations. But um, yeah, no, she um, you know, unfortunately, and I think a lot of parents will who pass on genetic conditions because this is a genetically passed on condition for me. She feels a sense of guilt about you know having passed on through her line, and so I think she we've talked about it a few times, and it's not a heavy weight on her shoulders, but she has a sense of it. Yeah. Michael Hingson  23:20 Well, I I appreciate that. What was it like when you first got the diagnosis? Though, did it did did it depress you? Did it kind of knock you on your ear in in any way, or did you really decide almost right from the beginning? Okay, this is here, but I can deal with Paul Bugeja  23:37 it. Yeah, it look, you know. So I'm writing a book about this, as I was saying at the moment, and in the in the chapter of the book that I'm writing, I think I wrote something along the lines of life just moved on. You know, like there was no discernible difference. Like I didn't feel physically any difference because there was no physical difference. But for me, I mean, you know, I I work in the media and I've worked in the knowledge industries of any kind for quite some time. Knowledge is power, you know. And and I would rather know about something and then be able to to to have some agency about how to act on it than to bury my head in the sand. Or, but by the same token, I can understand that knowledge can really throw some people. And you know, I have a friend, for example, who I was diagnosed with MS, and that can be an awful condition to be diagnosed with because it can progress very quickly. And for her, the knowledge wasn't great. You know, it's it's been a very big challenge for her. But you know, five years on, now that she has much more knowledge about it because she's had to live with it, she's going the opposite way. So you know, everyone is different, but for me, the knowledge actually catapulted me forward rather than weighed me down. Michael Hingson  24:46 Well, that was a choice that you had to make, or that you got to make, and you made it. And you're you're choosing to move forward with life, which is great. Paul Bugeja  24:55 Yeah, yeah. I feel lucky. As I said, I know. Everyone can can make that choice because of their own set of circumstances, and I do feel lucky about some of my circumstances. And you know, so I don't think everyone can necessarily be that practical or optimistic about things. But I encourage people to you know take a breath and and try and sit with whatever it is that they have to manage at any particular time, because you know people. A lot of people have a lot heavier challenges than I do, and they meet them as well. So it's possible to meet your challenges, I think, even if it limits you still. Michael Hingson  25:36 Well, so it's something that you live with, and so on. And I appreciate that. What what makes you get out of bed every day and and move forward, or is that what what you've been describing? Paul Bugeja  25:48 Look, I think I mean you know I'm I'm an I'm a lark, so I'm at about 430 in the morning, and I'm a Monday person, and I had this conversation with someone just this past Monday at the gym who you know dragged herself into the gym, and she was you know can't be bothered. I hate Mondays so much, you know, blah blah blah. And I get all that, you know. People love their weekends and a break. I love, I love the beginning of a day, and I and I have no problems getting up because I love the thought of there being so much in front of me, you know. And and even as as I grow older, and and you know, life obviously begins to go into a different phase. I still feel there's so much ahead, and and and it sounds a little bit Pollyanna of me, maybe, and a little bit overly optimistic, and a little bit Hollywood. But you know, I feel so hungry for life, and and even though that doesn't mean my life is perfect by any means, and that every day is perfect, and that there are some days that are are challenging. I face that all the time, as do we all in our different ways. But I I just feel so eager for the things that I mean. I have a great professional life, I have a great personal life, I have great friends, I have a good family. You know, my health is fine given the situation. Doesn't mean it's perfect, like I just said. But I don't have much to complain about, really. So, really, getting up is each day is is not a hard thing for me. It's it's it's a joy most days. Michael Hingson  27:15 So, are you married? Paul Bugeja  27:17 No, single. And this is, and I often frame conversations with this because sometimes my friends say to me, "Gosh, you have a great life, and I say, "Yeah, but I chose to be single, to not have children, and to not have pets-the three big things that change the course of your life sometimes in a good way, quite often. But also, I have more choices ahead of me because I am single and childless and petless, you know. Michael Hingson  27:42 Yep. Paul Bugeja  27:43 But you know, I don't. I'm not. I don't. I don't feel. I feel like I could have made other choices around this, of course. And I don't think there is a right or a wrong choice. It's just you have to find the right choice for you, especially when it comes to these big life choices. Michael Hingson  27:59 Well, you know, and when I got married, my wife and I had discussions about children, and she felt that she didn't want to have a child because she was in a wheelchair, and she felt in her specific situation, it would have been a lot harder on the body, and she would have been in bed a whole lot during a pregnancy, and she was afraid she would lose a lot of the the upper body strength and so on that she had. And my belief was that was her choice to make, and so we we both decided that we didn't want children. We would very happily entertain our nieces and nephews and throw them out of the house at the end of the day and send them home, which worked out really well. Paul Bugeja  28:49 I can I can understand that choice, and I I certainly I always thought I would be a father to be to be honest about that. When I was in my late teens and early 20s, it was forefront of my mind. Even though I had all these other adventures planned, and I had a couple of opportunities, actually, probably in my 30s, where I could have chosen to go down that road. And yeah, around the time I was diagnosed, I began thinking what that might mean. Like, and I began to not fear passing on my my FSHD to my potential children, but because often it passes through the female to the male, so it's less likely to pass through me. But if I had a female child, I might have passed it on genetically to her, who then passed it on to my grandchild. And not that that should stop anyone ever wanting children, but to your point and and the way you and your wife discuss the situation, I I made a conscious decision that probably given the life choices I was making around my career as well and other and personal life, it might not be the best choice. So yeah, I can understand where where. If Speaker 1  30:04 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  30:36 So, in in your life, what is one of the well? What would be the greatest thing in your life, personal or professional, that you've experienced so far? Paul Bugeja  30:47 The greatest thing, yeah, it's a it's a great question. That's a Michael Hingson  30:52 toughie because there are probably several. Paul Bugeja  30:54 Yeah, no, there are, there are. I mean, you know, I think, and this will seem a little sort of not so great. I mean, as in not great. Sorry, but I think the the first job in journalism that I got, which was working for the Guardian, the Australian Mars said version of the Guardian, that was pretty amazing for me because I had I had thought, and it wasn't as a journalist. It was as a like a community sort of an audience sort of person, basically. So I wasn't writing and I wasn't generating content, but just to be finally in a media organization after probably 10 or 15 years of always thinking, God, I'd love to work in the media. I'm a real news hound. I love news. I love current affairs, and even though for some it was just getting a job, for me it was taking a step into something that I had thought about for a while, and finally, and you know, working for a really reputable and very well known masthead as well, that had a lot of credibility. So that was pretty exciting, and and that sort of set me on the path of, I think this is where I will stay now if I can. Even though, as you would know, the media is under a lot of pressure to sort of evolve with a lot of external threats to the way it works and and you know staying financially viable. So I've sort of put myself into a very hot pot, and I hope I'm not the frog that jumps out. But I don't think I will be. I think I've managed to forge a bit of a career now that will keep me going. So yeah, it's not a a life like sort of fireworks sort of moment, but it was a it was certainly the day that I got the phone call saying we'd we'd love you to come and join us was was you know very similar to that? I got the phone call from drama school saying you got into drama school. It was a real like everything felt lifted. You know the whole I felt like I was floating that day. Michael Hingson  32:52 Yeah, I'm with you. So what other kinds of jobs then did you progress to over time? Paul Bugeja  32:59 Yeah, so because because I was pursuing acting for for quite some time, probably for about 10 to 15 years, really. You know, I had to do what most actors do, which is work a lot of other jobs. You know, like you just have to. The work is never constant, even for the for the biggest actors in the world. You know, I mean, most of them obviously work constantly, but you know, like to be a working actor is is never let anyone say that being an actor is not a real job. It's a really hard job, you know. And so, I I worked for a long time in casual jobs. I worked in a lot of theaters in in like the sort of the ticketing sort of area of of theaters. So I worked at both the Sydney Opera House and the Victorian Art Center, two big theater. You would know the Sydney Opera House, obviously, but yeah, Victoria Arts Center is another big theater organization in Australia. And while I was doing that, I began doing some freelance editing as a book editor. This was where I really began getting interested in content and copy, and and I had the part-time job at the university while I was studying and sort of doing all these other casual things and acting, and a role came up working in digital sort of content with a large betting agency. So you know, sports betting, which is very big in Australia, and it was managing their blog, their sports blog. So lots of content about what's happening in all the different sports, but you know, sort of a marketing slash copy role. But it was my first foray into digital content, you know, and this was at a time when it was really starting to amp up, and that therefore, you know, made me really think much more about journalism and and wanting to pursue that. So that was sort of the springboard into working in digital marketing, working as a sub editor, and then sort of finally landing this role at the Guardian, which didn't last super long, unfortunately, because I was completing a master's in publishing and communications at the time, and discovered that I. I'd left I'd left Melbourne to move to Sydney to work in the role and had two subjects left and I'd been told by the university that I could complete them in Sydney, and then I was told by an administrator that that was not possible, so I had to leave my job at the Guardian to go back to Melbourne to finish the masters, which was fine to do, and I kept doing other casual kind of jobs and you know contract roles. Well, I did that, but it meant leaving the Guardian, which was a bit disappointing. But it meant I got my masters, which was really critical because again, that was more of a springboard onwards. In fact, I, as part of my masters, I went to China and did a an intensive class in Shanghai, and from that, got offered a role in China, in Shanghai, with a with a Chinese media company that that produced content for for the very big expat community in Shanghai, and I was about to leave to go to Shanghai to take up the role, and you'll you'll probably will have a wry smile, which was February 2020, and fortunately, not long after that, everything kind of went pear-shaped with COVID, and so had to. I mean, it's sort of lucky in a way because Shanghai had a pretty awful time during COVID, where it was a very strict lockdown. So I probably dodged a bit of a COVID bullet in that regard, even though Australia had its own share of lockdowns. But yeah, so that sort of threw a bit of a spanner in the works of what looked like the next part of my media career. But then, of course, you know, I'm a I'm a fatalist. I I run with fate. I I don't push back against the things that sort of maybe look like negatives or or take us off our path. Paul Bugeja  36:38 And I just feel like it's another another fork in the path that takes us on a on a route that will hopefully get us to where we were meant to be, and not taking that role meant, of course, about a year later, I saw the job with Stuff, which is the New Zealand media company that I currently work for, and that was the middle of 2021. It was based in Auckland. We were still in the middle of COVID, but I applied anyway because why not? And yeah, they offered me the role pending the borders opening, effectively. And luckily for me, there was a two-week window where New Zealand and Australia thought things were going to go okay, and the borders opened, and I jumped on the first flight out and got myself to Auckland, and then I started my current job, or actually a different version of my current job with stuff. Michael Hingson  37:27 And what is your your current job? Paul Bugeja  37:30 So I am currently I create digital content for stuff for stuff digital, as we're called now. I mostly create trivia quizzes, so fun daily quizzes that we have a very very dedicated audience for. People love a quiz. I also create a word puzzle called the Hard Word, which is an anagram kind of puzzle. I create that every day. I create a news quiz for them. I also help manage the community, the online community that interacts with with us as another part of my role, which is the role that I originally went to New Zealand for, but as a full time gig, and now it's just sort of part of my my role. So yeah, I am a quizmaster. I love it. I had previously worked in television quiz shows during my time in Australia when I was juggling other stuff, so I had a bit of a background in in quiz question writing and quiz research and verifying, and so I'm now really in such a wonderful job. But I always like to be very clear about this to people because it sounds like the best job in the world. Wow, sitting and making cool quizzes every day-it's a really involved job, and it it takes a lot of kind of like time to research and put together these quizzes because you know you're trying to please a very broad audience of from you know 15 year olds to 75 year olds. So you know, it's it's a it's a very involved job, even if it's a fun job, and so it does, you know, it it does still have a very critical kind of like professional aspect to it, even though it sounds like to some of my friends and and people who learn about it the best job in the world. Michael Hingson  39:17 Well, I'm sure it's a great job, but it is a clearly a challenging job. Have you ever encountered people who talk to you about making your your quizzes or trying to work with staff to make quizzes and some of the things they do more accessible? So, like people who are blind can solve the quizzes or work the quizzes and use screen readers and so on to do the same things that others do. Paul Bugeja  39:45 Excellent point. So yeah, I feel quite often when I'm making my quizzes that clearly they are for an audience that can access them very easily. You know, as opposed to an audience that might need assistance to access. Them and you know we do the the the basic stuff as we you know you must you know um like you know putting an alt tag so that um you know people who maybe are but are able to to use to access the quiz as a as a an audio rather than a video rather than a written um quiz but you know, I think you're right. And look, to be fair, I think you know the way that the media is going. The media is going very video oriented now, anyway. I think, which is a brilliant thing for people who do need have some access, because you know, with the video, of course, a video quiz, there'll be audio as well as visual, as well as the written word potentially. So there's a way that covers off all the bases, you know, or you know, many of the bases anyway. At the moment, you know, we are starting to bring in some minor changes, but I think going forward, it's pretty critical because you know the world is very aware that people do have some limitations in the way that they can access, especially digital content, and even though there are a lot of great forms of software that you can use to to make like your your life less limited by whatever you know sort of limitation you may have, it still isn't as good as it can be. And and I think certainly as someone with a disability, I'm an advocate for disability. You know, I'm on the board of a major disability organization in Australia. I'm on an engagement advisory committee for the same organization. I'm very pro and very much an advocate for ensuring that anyone with any form of disability can access and have as as great a life as possible, as untrammeled. I'm not untrammeled. That's the wrong word. As as as you know, as a life that has no barricades to them, basically. Michael Hingson  41:49 Well, the the reality is that crossword puzzles, for example, can be made accessible. Yep. And of course, I wouldn't expect the organization to suddenly produce Braille puzzles, but there are there are still ways Speaker 2  42:11 to do it Michael Hingson  42:11 to create audio, for example, kinds of things. And you mentioned the the value of video that only works if people truly put the appropriate descriptions in in audio form, the video, which a lot of people don't do, which is unfortunate, but it is possible to make to make them more accessible than they are. Paul Bugeja  42:36 Yeah, but it is a but it is a it is Michael Hingson  42:38 a challenge, and I hope that over time more more kinds of things will be accessible. I get the New York Times online, and a lot of what they do isn't nearly as accessible as it should be, and I can see how it it could be made more Accessible, but they haven't just been really willing to do it. And and ironically, a lot of the media has been one of the places where access has has truly not been addressed nearly like it it should be. And and the the result of that is that there are problems, and of course they say, well, things change so fast. They they do, except that it's all about coding and it's all about understanding programming and coding. And if you do it right, and if you know it, you can keep up either way. But you know, people don't necessarily do that. Paul Bugeja  43:38 Yeah, look, I agree, and I think you know. Look, without I'm not going to become a defender of the media, even though I'm part of it. But I think they definitely can do better as a as an entire sort of profession. I think that the tricky thing for the media at the moment is, I mean, you look at what happened this week. You know, 300 reporters, you know, sacked at the Washington Post. You know the media is under a lot of pressure to be financial, and that's not a great defense against not being accessible, mind you. But their mind is on survival at the moment, and that's an unfortunate thing because it means that they can't do the stuff that would actually benefit everyone, you know, their entire audience. So, not to defend it, but that's that's the only sort of rationale I can think of as to why they're not doing more. But that shouldn't stop them trying. That shouldn't stop them trying. Michael Hingson  44:32 Well, and I think that's really the issue: is that people do need to try, and people need to make an effort. And if they would, it would help a lot more than than it does today. Paul Bugeja  44:43 Agreed. Michael Hingson  44:44 So, if you could change one thing about your life, what would it be? Paul Bugeja  44:47 Not very much. Like I really love my life. You know, I I I even and this will sound quite odd. I even probably wouldn't change having a disability. You know, like it it who I am. It's it's in my. You know, it's it's so it's in my DNA. Like you can't get any deeper into someone than their DNA. You know, like of course I'd rather not have this, but it's it it it doesn't as we've discussed. It doesn't stop me. It doesn't limit me. It just modifies my life on the edges. It's Michael Hingson  45:16 just it's just part of you. Paul Bugeja  45:18 That's exactly right. And so I have to embrace that. You know, as you know, does anyone with any sort of situation that is slightly left of you know what people might call you know normal or ordinary, you know? And I, I always say I try to live my life less ordinary, you know, and and I think it's that attitude which really stands me in good stead because when you choose like I like as we discussed earlier, I'm in a position where I can make different choices to people who do have a partner, or do have kids, or do have a massive mortgage, or do have whatever you know job that keeps them in one place. But you know, you know the old saying about you make your own luck, right? And circumstance does change things definitely, and some circumstances are outside of our control. For example, getting having a genetic disability is outside of my control, but you know you do make your own luck as well. And I sort of feel that I am so about agency, and I'm so about you know like taking responsibility for your actions that I feel that everything about my life is because of the choices that I've made, and I want to own that. So you know why would I want to change any of that? In terms of, if I want to change it, then I will change it. So I think I have a great life. I'm healthy. I'm happy. I've got a you know like I was saying earlier, I have great friends, a good family, a great job. I'm able to you know like talk to people like this about things and and and like it's yeah life's pretty life's pretty good for me. Um, you know, there are things about the world I'd like to change, like as would we all, you know, like, um, but those things we can only sort of change on the edges, and I do that as much as I can as well. So, well, there are things that we don't Michael Hingson  46:54 have control over, and and if we worry about them, that's just going to cause us grief. It's not going to bother others. Paul Bugeja  47:01 No, no worries. Worry. I mean, I worry about something. Of course, I do. We all do. But you know, eventually, I manage to bat most of my worries away because I realize, as you said, it's usually something that is out of my control. It's funny when I talk to my actor friends, and speaking for myself, of course, you know, actors have to rehearse. You know, we rehearse favorite. You know, you rehearse for roles and whatever, and that sometimes for me has meant that I tend to rehearse things prior to you know the situation. So it means that my mind goes at 100 miles an hour about a lot of things, and that can lead to anxiety and worry. You know because you overthink, you worry about a situation that hasn't even occurred yet. You're thinking, not over. Well, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So, you know, I think the the biggest lesson I've probably taken as well from my diagnosis and and the the thing I committed to this year a little bit as a part of my New Year's resolution or whatever you want to call it is to just be as present as I can. You know, like to live in this moment right now. That doesn't mean I don't have an eye to the future, and and I don't make plans, and I don't am not excited about the future. But I'm I'm trying to be as present as I can because if you're present, then all then all this worry disappears in a way because you just can only deal with with with what's right in front of you. Michael Hingson  48:18 Right. Do you have any regrets? Paul Bugeja  48:22 Um, not really. I mean, you know, like there've been a few moments in my life. So, for example, I can I can name a few things. Like when I was in my early 30s, I entered the the diversity visa program, which is the green card lottery in America. Yeah, and I I got it. I got a green card, you know, and so I was all ready to move to the states back in the late 90. Oh no, when was it? Yeah, the late 90s. Yeah, yeah, um, early noughties, and I got into the writing editing course in Australia. So I was really enjoying that. I was doing some acting and some paid acting work, and so I had to. I had a moment where I was like, "Well, do I really want to take up this green card off and become a resident of America? I have lived there before when I studied. I travel there regularly to see my friends, you know. And so I had this crunch time. It was a sliding doors moment. I I did visit a few times. I spent a bit of time in the states, and then I eventually dropped the green card. Now, occasionally, I look back on that and think, "Was that a silly thing to do with what would have opened up to me had I moved to the states? You know, like would my acting career have taken off? Would I have ended up working for the New York Times? Look, whatever it is. So there's a sense of regret about it, but it's such a faint shade of regret that it doesn't it doesn't hold me back. You know, I don't want to be held back by anything in my life. And I think, for me, regrets can hold you back too much. You know, oh yeah, Michael Hingson  49:49 yeah. Oh, absolutely. Well, and and it seems to me that that it's one of those things that could have gone either way, as you said, a sliding door moment. I think that's a really interesting way to put it. But but the fact of the matter is, you made a choice. You're happy with the choice, and you may or may not have been as happy with the choice if you had moved to America. But you wouldn't have experienced a lot of the things that you have experienced. So it's okay. Paul Bugeja  50:14 That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So even you know occasional relationships that went awry, or you know what else? Gosh, what if I stay pursue my career as an actor? There are always going to be what ifs with life, you know, and it's the what ifs that tend to cause us regret. I think, and Michael Hingson  50:29 well, and and cause us so much fear. Paul Bugeja  50:32 That's exactly right. And regret and fear should be the same word, effectively, because that's all that's playing. And if you can find a way to manage that as best you can, and and look. I always say I try to to look down at my feet on the ground to see where I am, and to look forward to see where I'm going, rather than look back where I've come from. And look, we can learn a lot from where we've come from. And in fact, the book that I'm writing is almost like a detective novel, where I track back through my life to see if I can see moments where I might have known that I had FSHD much earlier, so in that regard, I do look backwards. You know, I'm happy to to to have a critical eye on the past and to learn from it. You know, but I don't ever want it to drag me back to it. I'm always looking to be pulled forward. Michael Hingson  51:18 Well, that's the operative part, right? There's nothing wrong with looking back and and learning from what you've experienced, and and more people should should do more of that. It seems to me, but Paul Bugeja  51:29 oh yeah, let's. That's a much longer conversation, isn't it? It Michael Hingson  51:32 is. Who's been the most most influential person in your life, and why? Paul Bugeja  51:38 Yep. Michael Hingson  51:40 Besides Kate Blanchett, but that's another yeah, Paul Bugeja  51:42 of course, very influential, Kate. If you're listening, if she is, I hope she'll Michael Hingson  51:47 reach out. I'd love to have her on the podcast. But anyway, you Paul Bugeja  51:50 never know, my friend. You never know. Look, I mean, it's it's a hard question because, but it's a good question. I mean, there have been so many influences in my life, you know, and and I don't want to step on toes by not naming people in a way, but you know, for one one really influential person who has given me, you know, I have a friend who's a film journalist actually, and has written, you know, a lot mostly about the production side of the industry rather than film reviews, and I feel she only came into my life about maybe 10 or 12 years ago. So she's a relatively new friend, but a very dear friend. And I think I did an internship at a magazine that she worked for, and she was the the editor of at the time, and I think she had a really great influence on my life because she made me realize that I definitely wanted to pursue a career in the media. That I was done with journalism. That working in the media was exciting and interesting. You know, she made sure she pushed me in a lot of ways that I might not have been pushed otherwise, and she's remained a really dear and constant president in my life ever since. So yeah, I really feel like her coming into my life at that particular moment really was like critical in a lot of ways. But you know, she was one of many that have that have definitely given me great advice, or have been very supportive, or have just been there for me. So, yeah, big call out to her. She's she was being wonderful. Michael Hingson  53:29 Do you think that if you had never been diagnosed with or ever had FSHD, that your your job and your careers would have gone differently, or do you think that this was just a natural progression and FSHD is there, but it didn't really dictate what you did. Paul Bugeja  53:46 I think because of my approach to this situation, which is it's there, but it's not going to stop me. I think that look clearly, it's a physical condition, so it does limit me a little bit physically. So, like, I was never going to be like for for instance even with acting you know it did limit me a little bit with acting like there were certain things that like I can't do a headstand you know and I know that's a really a small thing but like in in drama classes there was I remember one class particularly always asked to do a headstand and I couldn't do it and this was pre diagnosis and I had I just thought it was because I was clumsy or uncoordinated or not muscular enough, so like certainly the diagnosis probably gets in the way of some some some kinds of careers that I might have pursued. But generally, you know, I'm a I'm a computer based person. I'm a knowledge and and and and content based person, and I was already going that way pre-diagnosis, so you know I don't think it really intervened in where I would have gone, whether it helped me or not, or whether you know it was part of the reason why I'm where I am. Look, I think it's it's part of the reason of everything that I do. You know, even if it's not all. That the defining reason, but it's it's a consideration definitely. Michael Hingson  55:04 Well, it is, and and it's helped build your resilience, and there's nothing wrong with that. Paul Bugeja  55:10 Yep, and that's right. And I'm in a career that requires resilience, and so it definitely, in that regard, yes, it's it's helped me build that further resilience. Michael Hingson  55:18 So there you go. Has AI helped you in terms of any of the things that you do on your job? Do you use it to to help in finding out information about quizzes or or that you put in quizzes or any of that? Has AI been a useful tool for you? Paul Bugeja  55:35 So again, this we could talk about this for 12 hours a time. Topics right, especially working in the media. I am. I love the fact that I'm an early adopter. Right, I love technology. I I embrace it. I'm you know I'm that guy who gets the new iPhone not every year but every other year. You know, I I'm really I embrace the new. You know, I was doing digital content well the beginning like not at the beginning of it all but you know I was I was I jump in quickly with AI I have reservations I certainly you know I tend to still use standard search but of course now with Google search AI is built into that Google search so I am using it in that regard as a media organization, we have a very strict policy about AI, as one must. You know, we have to be very careful because while it's definitely the next big revolution for everyone, whoever you are, from you know like a dog walker to a you know president, like it's going to affect everyone's lives, you know. I feel as though, so you know, for example, as a media organization, we're encouraged. We are looking at improving the way we work with AI, but there always needs to be a human oversight. Yeah, Michael Hingson  56:57 absolutely. Paul Bugeja  56:58 Yep, yep. And you would appreciate that, of course. So I don't use it in the way I think. I I think over time I will have to use it because I won't have any choice. But you know, we in the media, I think we're looking at. I don't think this is giving anything away, but we're looking at agentic AI more than generative AI because agentic AI is really useful. If I can ask an AI bot to put together the the not the quiz itself, but the the actual article the quiz will appear in that goes on the site. Well, that's just a practical like role you've given a system if you had one anyway, right? So I definitely think the media and me in in my role will will more and more embrace agentic AI as we're able to build it into our systems to help us with mundane practical tasks that you'd give the intern, that you'd give the the first year journal student out or whatever. Right? In terms of generative AI, I I've used it a bit just to see what it will throw back at me, and for example, I do a lot of quizzes as a quizmaster because I love to just do quizzes. I can tell a quiz that's been made with AI. It's very clear. I did a quiz the other day, and I kid you not. The first question was, "If I'm a Bolivian, what country might I come from? Now, I mean, for an editor or the actual person who put together that quiz, not to realize that a that's a pretty awful quiz question, but but it's such an obviously AI generated quiz question, you know. So yeah, I think we I think, and I'm also very aware that the amount of money that's being poured into AI at the moment is looking like a big bubble that will burst at some point, you know, because they can't keep plowing all this money in and expect big returns because it's not returning anything at the moment to them. Really, that doesn't mean it's not going to continue. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't embrace it. That doesn't mean that it's not going to maybe find a cure for cancer. Like I feel like there is a lot of positive that can come from it, so long as the humans stay in control. Michael Hingson  59:03 Well, I think that's the the real issue in the operative part of it. I have used AI in in writing articles, and the way I've used AI is I've I've asked it to give me give me your thoughts on or write an article about, and I'll do that like about six or seven times, and I will go through all of the things that that are created, and it gives me ideas. But I would never let it write the article, and I I would never do that because I want it to be me. And even if it could get to the point where it truly emulates me, it's not me, and I wouldn't want to do that. I so I'm I'm with what you're saying. Paul Bugeja  59:44 Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the trick. My, I think probably like with all you know, sort of new ages of technology, whether it was just the internet, and then it was sort of probably social media was the next big you know sort of critical juncture, and now it's AI. You know, it it means that the a younger. Generation that comes along that only knows this. So my my probably biggest concern would be, and I don't have children, but you know for my friends' children and the children that are going to grow up with AI, that they come to rely on it so heavily that they lose the ability to critically think, that they that they believe everything that AI says, and it will get better and it will get more accurate, but it's still throwing back. So I'll give you one quick example. When I was playing around with it back in 2022, I think, or whatever year the Queen died, Queen Elizabeth II died. I asked it, "Who's the current monarch of England? And I kept bringing Queen Elizabeth II back, and I kept arguing with it, and it kept saying no, and I started feeding it New York Times articles, Guardian articles, you know the Telegraph articles, and I kept saying these aren't reliable sources. Now this was you know back three or four years ago now, but that really concerned me, and I fear that that's the only fear for me is that people will lose their curiosity and their own ability to critically think and and and rely on it so heavily that they forget how to do really simple tasks that we should still be able to do. Michael Hingson  1:01:04 If you could change one thing about the world, whether it's big or small or whatever, what would Paul Bugeja  1:01:10 it be? I actually, so this will reveal me as a like a bit of a almost a communist. But I wish that people's obsession with money would change. I would love to change that. Like I love that people want to be comfortable and they want good lives and that we want our creature comforts and that we want to travel and have a great TV and all that somewhere to live. But I do feel li

It is never too late to chase a dream, even one that has waited decades for its turn. My guest, Evan Katz, built a career in journalism, public finance, and local government before taking an unexpected path into professional baseball. After first playing organized baseball at age 45, Evan became a professional player at 61 and later coached professional baseball at 69. We talk about how fear can become motivation, why setbacks can be powerful learning opportunities, and how skills gained across a lifetime can prepare us for challenges we never expected to face. Evan also shares what he learned from calling himself the “least qualified coach in professional baseball,” and how listening, mentoring, and supporting others became some of his greatest strengths. His story is a wonderful reminder that personal growth, career change, and lifelong learning do not come with an expiration date. Highlights: 02:47 – How family work ethic shaped Evan's drive. 11:26 – How fear can become motivation. 13:08 – Why setbacks can become learning opportunities. 35:06 – What local government taught Evan about growth. 42:29 – Why he started playing baseball at 45. 53:37 – How he became a professional baseball coach at 69 About the Guest: Evan grew up in Brookline, Massachusetts two miles from Fenway Park in the 1960s and quickly learned the emotional highs and lows of being a Red Sox fan.  When the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004, after an 86-year championship drought, he rang church bells to celebrate. After a long award-winning career in municipal and public school finance in Massachusetts, and raising a family of four with his wife Liz, Evan began his late-life baseball career in earnest at age 65.  He was an assistant high school coach for three years, and documented the team's Massachusetts state championship in the story “No Earbuds in the Outfield.” Evan Katz's pro baseball career began at age 61 when he pitched for the White Sands Pupfish of the independent Pecos League in 2017. When euphoria subsided and his infinity ERA began to sting, Evan returned to the Pecos League at age 67. With the Austin Weirdos he became one of the oldest pitchers ever to start a minor league game and lowered his ERA to 29.25 After an aborted stint as pitching coach with the Roswell Invaders in 2024, Evan returned to the Pecos League in 2025 as bullpen coach of the North Platte 80s. As the 80's scout he recruited players for the second-year Nebraska team.  As bullpen coach he supported the North Platte pitching staff which anchored the team's 27-21 record and helped the team reach the second round of the playoffs. And this despite just three years as a high school coach, and no college coaching experience. There were more than 2000 coaches among nearly 300 major, minor and independent pro baseball teams and Evan was the least qualified. To share his second career in baseball and other inspiring baseball stories, Evan manages his baseball website “Baseball by the Sea Media.” It includes exclusive feature stories plus biographies and game stories published by the Society for American Baseball Research. It also links to the 2024 award-winning two-season podcast he co-hosted with Bruce McClure, “Baseball's Last Frontier: Stories from the Pecos League.” Ways to connect with Evan**:** https://sites.google.com/view/baseballbythesea/home https://www.linkedin.com/in/evan-katz-351554b/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi, everyone, and welcome to another Unstoppable Mindset podcast episode today. We get to chat with Evan Katz, and Evan's got an interesting life, especially since, if you will, he started the second part of his life, or maybe it's not the second, maybe it's later, of being a professional baseball coach at the age of 61. Well, we're going to hear about that. Evan lives in Massachusetts, in Swampscott, grew up in Brookline, which was very close to where the Red Sox play. I'm sure he's got lots of stories that we get to talk about with that. But anyway, Evan, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad you're here. Evan Katz  01:42 Thanks, Michael. I really appreciate the invitation. I I think that I'm excited to be part of a show with with with the theme that that you emphasize because I think that that when you reached out to me to ask if I was interested in in sharing some of my life experiences, I realize that there's a there's an unstoppable part of my mindset that has allowed me to achieve some things I didn't think were going to be possible. Michael Hingson  02:10 There you go. Well, you know, a lot of times we plan, and what we plan doesn't always necessarily go exactly the way we thought. But that's okay. It's it's a question what we do with it and what we learn from it. I suppose why don't we start by you telling us a little bit maybe about the early Evan growing up and and all that. And I know that you had mentioned that you think you actually got your kind of unstoppable mindset attitude from your parents and all that. So if you want to talk about that as as we go, you're welcome to. But anyway, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about the early Evan, if you will. Evan Katz  02:42 Sure. Well, you know, as you mentioned, I grew up outside of Boston in the town of Brookline, which is about two miles from Fenway Park. I'm a baby boomer. My my parents worked really hard, and they they worked hard to get their first house. They worked hard to fix it up. My mother was at home. My father worked in his parents' hardware store and was always fixing up the house. We ended up upgrading houses because of all the work that he did. And my mother, although she wasn't working, you know, she was involved in local politics, trying to improve the schools. And one of the stories I told when she passed away a number of years ago that she was so effective about mobilizing people to make changes in the school system. One of the school principals said to somebody else, "Get that Pawnee cats off the phone, Michael Hingson  03:34 because of course Evan Katz  03:35 at the time telephone was the only way to connect with people. But you know she had her unstoppable mindset in terms of making changes in public education in Brookline, my dad in terms of living the dream that he had for his family, and I really think that that in my own way I picked up that same hard worth it work ethic, and it's popped up along the way throughout my my life and my career. I Michael Hingson  04:00 I know what you mean. I know my parents were somewhat the same way. My dad worked at. Well, we moved to California when I was five, and before we moved, we were in Chicago. And he and my uncle owned a TV repair shop, and my dad left that to move to California. Wanted to do that anyway, but he began working at a government installation, was called Plant 42, and then later transferred to Edwards Air Force Base. My mom stayed home for a while. She actually helped sell real estate, helped sell some of the houses on the street where we moved because they were they were brand new, and the real estate people trusted her, so she she did some of that. Don't know what she earned or how all that worked, but but she did okay. But my dad worked, and I I feel very blessed. They they clearly taught me a lot, and I value very much their work ethic. I know what you're talking about. Evan Katz  05:01 Well, family is a great resource, whether it's your immediate family or extended family. And also, again, at the time that that I was growing up, most of our extended family lived right in the area, so there was a lot of connecting with cousins and uncles and grandparents. And I think that had its own way of shaping because we had a pretty hardworking, determined family, and I think that got passed on again, not just in my parents, but from my extended family as well. We Michael Hingson  05:28 had aunts and uncles and cousins. A lot of them were in Chicago. Then aunt and uncle and their two boys and our cousins moved out to California, but it was long after we moved. And then our next closest relative was actually up in the San Francisco area. Aunt Bella and Uncle Oscar owned a shoe store, and but and there were some other people who we called aunts. I'm not sure that they actually were, but aunts and uncles. But they they lived in the L.A. area. But most of our relatives were not very close by. Well, that's that's fine, but value the relationships nonetheless. So what was what was school like for you? Well, elementary school and high school and so on. Evan Katz  06:22 Well, I went to the local elementary school, and as I think, as I as I suggested, it was one of the schools that was being neglected by the town. My mother and her friends advocated for equal resources. It was also during the time where Christmas carols were being sung in school, and it was not something that my parents thought was appropriate. I was Jewish. There were other Jewish kids in school, not very many, and just didn't seem like this was the thing that should be happening, given where our country was at the time. And so I did well in elementary school. I mean, the interesting thing was I skipped kindergarten, so I was always the youngest and the slowest on the playground, and it actually contributed to my not participating in sports through my early years and into into high school, which we will we'll hear more about that later. But I got a good education. I loved numbers. I learned in high school after I had horrible year my sophomore year writing. I was determined to learn. I took a couple of English classes from mr. Carey at Newton South High School. Learned to become a good writer, and ultimately that led to my writing on college newspapers and becoming a newspaper reporter. My first job out of college. So, you know, the kind of thing when you go through school, you try to figure out, you know, what are the things that that that sing to you. And first, it was numbers for me, and I ended up going into a career in public finance, and then the writing, which I ended up becoming a newspaper reporter, put that on hold. And about 10 years ago, or eight years ago, I started a baseball social media website, and I ended up writing baseball stories. So, so here I am in my my my formative years in school, taming numbers, becoming a CFO in the public sector, and becoming a good writer-they got me through life. Michael Hingson  08:33 How did you end up being able to skip kindergarten? Evan Katz  08:37 That was back in the day. They didn't have minimum age requirements. If you pass the test, you you got to go right to first grade. Michael Hingson  08:44 Ah, well, I know I went to kindergarten in Chicago, and you started in Chicago at age four. Then we moved to California, and the problem is in California you couldn't start kindergarten till age five, but I had had a year of kindergarten already, but they wouldn't let me just go to first grade because I was only five, so I ended up with two years of kindergarten. And I'm not sure that second year was all that exciting for me, because kids were drawing and doing all sorts of stuff that I wouldn't do being blind. But we coped, and we got through it. I also did love numbers and so on, and my dad taught me how to do math in my head, so I was really doing well with math. And my my mother helped me with spelling tests and reading other material to me, and so on. So we got through it, and again, they took that on without any remorse at all, which, as I think back on it, was just part of their gutsiness and their unstoppability. Because the doctors told them that no blind child could ever amount to anything, and they were going to prove the doctors wrong. And I would like to think that they did, but we. We went through it, and I didn't actually. I learned Braille when I was in kindergarten in Chicago, but then didn't have access to Braille till the fourth grade out here in California. Yep. Yeah. Well, but my my parents read and kept me up with everything, but still it was a problem. But then I got Braille again, and so it all worked out, but I, but I, but I know what you're saying. It still gets back to the work ethic, and our parents were gonna do everything they could to make sure we all succeeded, didn't they? Evan Katz  10:32 Well, and I think also, Michael, you've touched on it, and I did as well. You know, there are things, there are areas we go into, whether it's school or work or relationships, we're blessed with certain talents and traits, but we also have areas that are not our strengths, and we're always having to work to figure out how to how to compensate for our areas of call it weakness or limitations, and also how to allow our strengths to to overcome those and and then to help generate success. Michael Hingson  11:05 Yeah, and and we do need to do that. And and the reality is that we're all generally better at some things than we are at other things, but we can make it work if we if we try. I wrote and published with a colleague, Carrie Wagg Kent, two years ago a book called *Live Like a Guide Dog* which is all about learning to control fear and its life lessons that that tell us that fear doesn't need to overwhelm us or, as I put it, blind us. That that we can use fear as a very powerful tool to help us, and I mention that because there are so many things that we fear in the world, and most of them we don't have any control over. I mean, I know that there are things that that I don't get to do right now that other people do because they can see different things. But at the same time, I have gifts that most of those people never either learn to use or choose to use or can use, and so we all have to work together to make the world successful. And I think that's the big issue. Evan Katz  12:11 Well, I think your point about fear is really important because we we all have fears, we all have worries, and fear can be paralyzing, and but it can also be motivating, and I think it's important that if you get into a situation that that you're concerned about or worried about, you should acknowledge that you're in something. Maybe you're over your head, and we'll talk about my coaching a professional team at age 69 without ever having coached college baseball, going right from high school coaching to professional coaching, that was the hardest job of my life, and that fear motivated me to figure out how am I going to come up with those compensating skills? How am I going to be able to succeed? Because I want this to succeed not just for me, but for the players around me. So, so fear. It's important to to recognize it, and so that you know that it's there, but also be able to take advantage of what fear can motivate you to do. Michael Hingson  13:13 Well, and fear doesn't need to paralyze you unless you let it. And that's the the big issue: is that we don't learn generally how to control fear and to use fear in a positive way. We worry about so many things over which we'll never have control because we just don't, and we let all of that worry us, and that that certainly adds so much to the fear levels that we face, and if we would only learn to just focus on what we can control, that doesn't mean you don't be aware of other things. But don't worry about the things over which you don't have control. It will help your life a whole lot. Evan Katz  13:53 And another aspect to that is, and I and I learned this, and as I mentioned, I worked in the public sector for for for almost 40 years, and I came up with the phrase at one point, and I I don't remember the circumstances. And somebody said, "I don't know if this is going to work. I don't know if we have the money. I don't know we have the people. This may not be a good solution, or the operation may not work. And I said, "Well, I think we have to see if it fails because if it fails, then we're going to learn something. Obviously, we didn't want anyone to lose a job or to get hurt. It wasn't failing in that regard, but but the you have to have enough courage so that if something isn't going to work, you can use that as as a learning opportunity as well, so you can't have fear of failure either. Because then we can all look back. You're old enough. I'm old enough to look back on our lives and see those learning moments. Many of them came from times that didn't work out so well, Michael Hingson  14:55 which doesn't mean that we failed. And I think that's the big issue. I think we have to deal with. Failure is is something that we have to really get over thinking about because failure isn't really it. What what it is is that things didn't work out the way we planned, but that doesn't mean that we failed, which means we just can't go on. We're we're stuck. It's it's a learning experience, and that is part of what dealing with fear is all about. Is rather than worrying about it. All right, so this didn't work. Don't fret. Don't worry. Don't panic. What did you learn from it? How do we get beyond that? And that's the thing that we generally tend not to do very much: is to do a lot of self-analysis in our own lives. Take time at night to step back and look at what worked during the day, what didn't work, and the what didn't works weren't failures, but they were learning opportunities if we take advantage of our own skills to develop our mind muscle to do that. Evan Katz  15:57 Absolutely, I Michael Hingson  15:58 think that's that's so important. Well, so for you, you you where did you go to college? Evan Katz  16:08 I graduated from Newton South High School. We went from Brookline to Newton in the 70s. I went to a small college in Western New York, Alfred University, for two years, and ultimately graduated from Colby College in Maine in 1977. As I mentioned, I wrote for both the newspapers at Alford and Colby, and that's where I got my my my journalistic experience back then. Writing for college newspapers was was a big deal back then, Michael Hingson  16:39 yeah, Evan Katz  16:39 and that worked out really well. I was going to go into teaching. That was my original plan. I did some internships in college. I even, when I was at Colby, I took a semester and helped out at a small fourth grade class in neighboring Oakland, Maine, helping out kids doing lessons in the in the corridor and in the back of the room to help them with their math, but when I left college, I had done enough writing, primarily sports, that I decided to to follow journalism. But the college years were really an eye opener for me. As I mentioned, I was a year young. You know, I was the drinking age was 18, and I was still only 17 and a half when I went to college, but somehow my IDs got me through into the pub. But it was a really eye-opening experience going to college in New York. I'd been in Massachusetts my whole life and was in a small town in Western New York, and it was just so eye-opening to see a part of the country and people that were very unlike where I lived in terms of Alfred. Most of the kids were from New York, and then going to Maine, they were more from New England. But it was just a real eye-opening experience. I think we all go through that in our late teens and early 20s, really beginning to discover, you know, who we are, what situations are we comfortable in? We test ourselves. We do crazy things, and it all turned out okay because I was able to get a job right out of college. Michael Hingson  18:11 So teaching was your plan, but it didn't go that way. Evan Katz  18:16 No, it didn't. And interestingly enough, I was looking back through my father's memorabilia when he died, and I think I knew this, but I was reminded that he wanted to teach originally, and he actually was a mentor to many people during his working career. And he took great pride and went to the Peace Corps actually for a number of years in his 60s, and so you know the whole teaching mentoring thing ran in our family, so I guess it's kind of ironic that I ended up coaching baseball at age 65 as a as a teacher and a mentor. But but the college experience, you know, I still think about it. I just sold my vinyl records. It was it was a little traumatic, but I did sell my vinyl records recently because I can listen to everything over the internet now, and but that was a water watershed moment selling my vinyl that I listened to in college for all those years. Michael Hingson  19:14 I still have mine from working at the campus radio station. I got a lot of records back here, and I I am somewhat of the opinion of the I don't know whether I would call them snobs, but I still think the best quality is still vinyl. Evan Katz  19:30 Well, as you know, Michael, one of the best attributes of vinyl records is when they were originally the songs were compiled and sequenced. It was they were designed to listen through the whole side of an album. Michael Hingson  19:44 Yeah, Evan Katz  19:44 and I mean obviously Pink Floyd was classic, and I'm sure that there were others that come to mind that I can't think of. And I was a big fan of the Doobie Brothers, and to this day I'll still turn off my radio in the car and put on a couple of Doobie Brothers albums and listen to them straight. Same with Chicago. It just the music was meant to be arranged, you know, for half an hour or 35 minutes, not just three and a half minutes. And I think a little bit of that has been has been lost with today's music. Michael Hingson  20:13 Yeah. Well, I think there's there's truth to that. And I even go back further. I've been a fan for many many years of big bands, primarily Swing, Benny Goodman, and and so on, but also doop and early rock. But I and I like some of the other rock. But I've never been a great heavy metal fan. But that's okay. Some people like it, and then that's fine too. But I really enjoy my records as well, which is a lot of fun. Yeah, I Evan Katz  20:42 did listen to Van Halen cassettes driving. Somehow, a Van Halen arrangement wasn't quite the same as Chicago. No, Michael Hingson  20:50 no, it is a little bit different. There's no doubt about that. So, what was your job that you ended up getting out of college? Evan Katz  20:57 I ended up worked as a stringer, which I don't even know if there are any anymore, but I think I got paid 10 cents an inch for covering soccer for the Newton graphic. I covered the Newton South soccer team, and also I I don't know how much an hour I got. I covered the Westin Wildcats. That's a small town west of Boston for the Westin Town Crier. That's how I got started in journalism, and I ultimately was hired as a part-time reporter by the Walpole Times, which is small town southwest of Boston. And I eventually became a full-time reporter there, covering town government, writing feature stories, learned how to use a 35 millimeter camera. We we had our own darkroom there, and I thought it was so much fun going out to meetings, interviewing people, compiling stories. It was just it wasn't like work. It was it was it was exciting, and it paid the bills, and I was living on my own for the first time. Michael Hingson  22:06 That didn't get you to graduate to things like going into television on WEEI and doing sports for them, huh? Evan Katz  22:13 No, the the the written word at the time, and even today still is is where I am. Although, as I joke with my friends, just put a microphone in front of me, and I'll start talking. Michael Hingson  22:26 So that's okay. Well, so how long did you write? And then what happened Evan Katz  22:32 was, so as I mentioned, my mother was very involved in local government, and I grew up in Brookline. And the interesting thing was, I was covering the planning board and the school committee in Walpole, and I'm I'm going to the meetings and I'm listening to them talking about the issues that they're dealing with, and I'm thinking to myself, so this is what 1979. I'm 23 years old, and I'm thinking, I mean, I can do better than this. I mean, listening to these these people talk about how they're going to solve problems, and I said, I think I can really help. So, the local legislator from Walpole, his name was Frank Woodward, had an opening in his office, and I started working as a legislative aide for him, working in the state house. It was very exciting. My mother was so proud. When some one morning in March, I don't know if it was 1979 or 1980, and I walked up the steps of the State House. Big blue sky in Boston. It was a big golden dome. I'll never forget. I walked up the front steps, looked up at the golden dome and the big blue sky in March of whatever year that was, so excited. My mother was so proud. My dad was too, obviously. And then I got involved in government, and that's where it all started. Working in the state house to really begin to understand the importance of issues. You know, it wasn't just local government, but how the state government intersected with the federal government, and how much how how important government is to making people's lives safe and protected. Michael Hingson  24:07 Yeah, and I think that is that is something that although there is certainly a lot going on today that is not necessarily the the model of what government ought to be, probably, but still, government and what the House of Representatives and the Senate do at the federal level, and what happens at the at the state house and in the state government is really important. And I wish more people would seriously get involved with it, and and do it from an ethical standpoint. But you know, we, I guess, we go through through different kinds of eras of how things work. Evan Katz  24:54 Well, it's interesting in the tumult that we're going through here. I recently had a chance. Last month to go to England with my wife. I hadn't been there for a while, and and I was really struck by how the history dates back centuries and centuries and centuries prior. You know, to 1066, I guess is one of the lines in the sand or the dirt in England. But when they started the more modern era, and what I was really struck by when you think about a country like England and all the difficulties, all the changes, all the times that they were under threat from external forces, internal forces, all the chaos, and somehow they've survived. And I think this is one of the real attributes of Great Britain. And I just began to think about what we're going through here, and I think I have to be hopeful in the same way. Michael Hingson  25:56 Yeah, I agree that Evan Katz  25:57 that that we've been here for 250 years. I know it's short compared to England. Supposedly, one author says that republics die after 250 years. I don't know if I buy that necessarily, but but the point is that that that I think somehow, some way, we're going to survive this because other countries have been through much more over much longer periods of time, and here they are. And 2026 is stable, viable countries. Michael Hingson  26:25 Yeah, and they're still there, and they're going to be there. And I agree with you. I think that we're we're going to continue, and maybe republics die after 250 years, but it doesn't mean they have to. And I think that's that's part of it. So what did you what did you do in terms of you you went to work in the state house or what did you do? Evan Katz  26:48 And I was a legislative aide, so we would get information on legislation, take a lot of constituent phone calls because at the time the only time only way you got a hold of your legislator was either make a phone call. Of course, I think from Walpole to Boston, it might have been a toll call at that time. So maybe we got more letters from Walpole. I don't know, but constituent constituent concerns, working with state agencies to resolve things, and and it just got me acquainted with with with how government works, and it just gave me an appreciation for what it takes to make government work for for the the residents of Walpole and a couple other nearby towns, and also you get to see the the leaders of the state at that time the the Senate President and the the Speaker of the House, and you get to understand a little bit more how they show leadership and what skills and attributes work well, and what ones in your mind don't work well. But the whole bottom line is, you know, how is it working for the constituents? And to me, that became more and more important. Is what's the bottom line here? It's not about power. It's not about success at the legislator. The bottom line is the impact on people. Michael Hingson  28:13 Well, I remember that when I lived in Winthrop, every year I would go with people from the National Federation of the Blind, we went to Washington every year. Five, 600 of us descended on Washington and visited all of our legislators. And I remember actually once having the opportunity to set up an appointment and meet with Tip O'Neill. What an amazing guy he was! Yeah. But then also there was a new congressman who had just joined, Ed Markey. Evan Katz  28:45 Oh sure. Michael Hingson  28:46 Now look where he is. He's but but it was it was so much fun seeing Congress in action and actually being a part of it, talking about different kinds of issues, and of course it got to meet Ted Kennedy and also Paul Songas along the way as well. And I and I also was involved in things in in Massachusetts because one of the problems we had in the early '80s in Massachusetts and around the country was that blind people couldn't buy life insurance because the life insurance companies said we're a higher risk, we'll have a higher mortality rate, and finally, to keep the story short, we discovered that unlike what insurance companies say they do, which is they make their determinations always based on actuarial statistics, evidentiary data, and they create mathematical models based on evidence. They had absolutely not one single solitary thing to show that blind people or other people with disabilities were a higher risk than anyone else. So I worked back in the late 70s, early 80s with I don't you may. I've known him, Al Evan Katz  30:02 Sagasi. I recognize the name. Michael Hingson  30:03 Yeah, and so he he helped us shepherd a bill through that eventually eliminated discrimination in dealing with life insurance in Massachusetts, and and actually was something that passed in every state that all all the states dealt with that because the insurance companies were just playing games, which was so unfortunate. So when I was growing up, my parents couldn't insure me. When I was in college, I couldn't buy life insurance, and and eventually it got addressed. But it was, and it still is fascinating to think back and be a part of making a difference and really working to help constituents and help the legislature. Evan Katz  30:48 Well, there's a great example of numbers not being in action. You know, they're hiding behind perceived numbers, and then you do do a little bit of digging, and you find out that it's not quite as fact-based as they made it sound, Michael Hingson  31:02 yeah, and in fact there was no fact, and but still we worked through it, but the process was, I think, and still is for me one of the most fascinating things to to be able to go and be a part of dealing with things and and hopefully getting legislators to deal with issues and I'm not sure that there's as much of that that's happening today with everything going on but it'll come back. Evan Katz  31:34 Not not in Washington anyway. I think you've got to look to the states more than Washington. Washington's an anomaly right now. Michael Hingson  31:42 Yeah, Washington is really a big problem, and and but it'll it'll it'll switch at some point. I hope. I think it's going to have to, but but we'll see how it goes. If Speaker 1  31:55 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes, thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  32:27 So you you went to work and you were legislative aide. How long did you do that? Evan Katz  32:32 Actually, not not. I think it was a little over a year because I ended up working on a referendum campaign. There's a thing in Massachusetts to limit property taxes, that's called Prop Two and a Half, that passed in 1980. I ended up working for Representative Woodward and a couple of other reps. There was an alternative on the tried to get on the ballot as an alternative to Two and a Half that wouldn't be quite as dramatic. Although I think, looking back as someone in the public sector, I think it's a good thing that Prop two and a half passed, but I got involved in working on a referendum campaign as an alternative to Prop two and a half. It didn't pass, and then at that point, I decided needed to get some professional training, and I went to get my graduate degree in public administration from the Kennedy School at Harvard, so I would have more credentials and I could really get into local government, and that really opened the door. Once I got my master's degree, I ended up working for the state. I think I mentioned my mother and family were from were from Brookline. We were acquainted with Governor Dukakis, and my mother worked actually very close with Govern was very close with Governor Dukakis, and he really encouraged me to go to graduate school, and I ended up going to the Kennedy School. And from there, I went and worked for his administration. The Massachusetts Department of Revenue started a division to support local government finance. It was really very innovative at the time in the early '80s. You know, cities and towns were separate. The state was just a regulatory reagency, and Governor Dukakis wanted to create an agency that could be a resource to local government to help them make better decisions. We created a municipal data bank to try to gather information to get to gather statistical information and ultimately help guide cities and towns to budget better, to plan their capital budgets better. And I was involved in the formation of that bureau in the Mass Department of Revenue. It was called the Division of Local Services, and I ended up working there in the early '80s, to really get a feel for how state government worked, state aid, and all that sort of thing, and then I learned enough there and decided to go out and see what it was like myself to work in a city or town, and that that's was around 1980. So I got my training at is in graduate school, learned more in state government, and then in the mid '80s went out to work in town halls and and city halls, and that that talk about fear, that that was frightening. Michael Hingson  35:18 It was a new experience. Evan Katz  35:20 Absolutely, you know, you you you you're in the state house, and there's there's 240 state reps and 40 senators, I think, all kinds of legislative aides. You're working in a state agency, and it's a whole bunch of 20 something and 30 something colleagues and bosses and this and that. There's always someone you can ask, always someone that can support you. You go to a town hall, and there's there's three clerks and a bunch of select board members. In Massachusetts, there are boards of selectmen in the small towns, or the select board now. Back then, it was select men, but you're on your own out there, and it's very, very different. You know, having a bunch of colleagues to support you in the big city when you're out in the small town of Groton, 40 miles from Boston, with 7000 people, and you're the resource in town hall. It's a lot different. Michael Hingson  36:18 I was just going to say that you you became the resource that people look to. Evan Katz  36:24 Yeah, and and so you take your professional training and you begin to develop some of those personal skills. And how do you relate to people? How do you gather information? How do you recover from from your mistakes? How do you make sure you have enough successes so that you got a good success to mistake ratio? But it's it it is very scary. I mean, I was what how old in 1986? So I was 30 years old, and it never. And I wanted to work in a small town, and I did, but it was a real, real eye-opening experience. But by the same token, you know, one of our biggest fears-you're the only person. One of the greatest attributes to the situation was you're immersed in everything. You learn everything. You learn about the police department, the fire department, which was a call department at that time. You know, if there was a fire, all the firemen, there might have been a couple of women as well, went to some went to the station to get the truck, and some drove in their cars to the scene of the fire, and and and you get a small town with one police officer on duty, you know, from from 11 to seven, you got a water department with two employees. You really get a feel for what's important and what isn't, and how do you make the system go, and what do you do in an emergency, and how do you plan for the future? And so it was it was it was frightening at one level because you're on your own and you're learning a brand new thing, but at the same time you're immersing yourself so deeply, and you're learning so much that that that that you're growing, you know, professionally and personally at a very very fast rate. Michael Hingson  38:16 And although you may or may not realize it at the time, those fears that that you started with slowly would be dissolving away because you were learning how to deal with things, and you were discovering that you had the ability to deal with things, and so you became less afraid in a positive way. Evan Katz  38:37 Right. Well, you know, you all know that the cycles in in businesses and cities and towns, and it's all in an annual cycle, the budget cycle, and you know you get through the first year and you start doing it again, and you're doing it again, and you really then you begin to expand your knowledge base. You're willing to to to experiment a little bit more, and and you're growing again at a very fast rate because you're able to do more and more that you weren't able to do when you first got there. Michael Hingson  39:10 Did you ever run for any office? Evan Katz  39:13 Actually, I did. When I left Groton, I finance was my area of interest, as as I mentioned earlier. I was hired by the city of Medford, which is just north of Boston, up Route 93, probably I don't maybe 810 miles north. And when I was working there, I was the city's finance director. You talk about culture shock, so I go from the small town of Groton with seven people to a to a 50,000 the city of 50,000 with a with a palatial city hall right off Route 93 and but I was chosen for because of my background in finance. And when I was working there, I decided that the town of Groton might benefit from my experience as an elected official. So I was working in Medford as finance director, and I ran for assessor in Groton to get started. Elected assessors to value properties and administered the taxes, and then ultimately I ran for select board a couple years after that. Michael Hingson  40:27 Were you elected? Evan Katz  40:29 I did. Yeah, I won. Okay. And here's another thing that I learned. You know, I haven't always seen elected boards, whether it was the select board or city councils or legislators, you see elected officials in action at meetings and talking about problems and making phone calls, but you forget there's a lot of other work that goes on behind the scenes when you're at home at night and when you run into somebody on the street. And so I was I was very prepared for the for the technical aspects of it, the problem solving, but I forgot about the time that it takes when people call you or have a have a have a problem with a nearby dog, or someone put up a fence, or the traffic on my street is going too fast. You have to call people. You got to follow up. You got to again. Back in the old days, it's all by telephone. So the amount of time that it took to resolve problems and have meetings, I forgot about the the the extra time that it takes when you're an elected official to do that behind the scenes stuff. But but I enjoy doing that as well. Michael Hingson  41:41 Yeah, I'll bet. And you know, it it is just it it you figure out that that's part of what you have to do. And again, I think the big issue is in figuring all that out is learning to recognize that's part of what you have to do, and accepting that that's definitely part of the job, and not trying to blow it off, not trying to get angry at people, which all too often happens today, I think more than it than it needs to. But it is part of the job. It's all part of the job, and no matter what, that hasn't really changed. Evan Katz  42:19 And I think it's I think it's in any job, and I think people have perceptions about certain types of jobs, whether it's you're you're you're a plumber, a truck driver, a lawyer. You know, people understand the responsibilities at the surface level and the visible level, but they're they're not as aware of what goes on behind the scenes, what it takes to to get things going, and and I think that's probably not and maybe underappreciated in some situations about what it takes to to to do things behind the scenes that are not as exciting, where there's more drudgery, and and and the amount of time that it takes to get you into the seat of the truck, to get you to have a meeting with clients, if you're some kind of professional, if you're a doctor, there's there's there's a lot more to any job, and I think that that that it's important to recognize it for ourselves. You know, it's not just the let's call it the glamorous part of the job. Michael Hingson  43:29 Yeah, Evan Katz  43:30 there's the behind the scenes part of the job, and the same goes for all jobs. And I think it's important to remember that. Michael Hingson  43:36 I agree. Well, you did all this work, and you kept doing it for quite a while. So, what got you into baseball, other than being a fan? But you know, Evan Katz  43:46 well, loyal Red Sox fan, been to Fenway hundreds of times, as I mentioned earlier. Was started school a year early, so I never played sports, and my kids in my 40s had finished little league, and they were all done with their sports careers at that point. And I decided I wanted to play baseball at age 45. Michael Hingson  44:14 There you go. I had Evan Katz  44:15 never played. I had never played little league. I never played high school. Never played college. And at age 45, a friend of mine who I grew up with in Brookline, he encouraged me to go to a baseball camp in Florida in 2002, and at that point, my my interest in baseball and my fandom in baseball expanded to becoming a a player and having to learn about the game as a player, not just as someone watching the game. Michael Hingson  44:47 And what did your wife think of that? Evan Katz  44:49 Well, my my wife will mention that my my wife Liz, our first date was on march 30, 2002, and that was the date. Of my first baseball practice in Massachusetts, so she has been there from the beginning of my baseball career. And if it wasn't for her one acceptance of it and her support of it, I never would have been able to achieve and enjoy all that all that I have, but she she is is is my biggest fan and supporter. Michael Hingson  45:29 That's great. She's a Red Sox fan, I would presume. Evan Katz  45:33 Yeah, Red Sox fan. Yep, and you know we watched them clinch it in 2004. We've been to Fenway together, and you know she, you know, like I played adult baseball, and and you know the when guys join, their spouses or girlfriends come the first for a bunch of games in the beginning, but then they just lose interest. Understandably, it's you know it's old man baseball. It's not like it is on TV. She she comes from time to time, but but she she's got her own life to live now. So that's okay. Michael Hingson  46:05 Well, so so tell me how baseball progressed for you. So you you started working at playing. Evan Katz  46:15 Yeah. So I went to this baseball camp in Florida, which I actually just came back from. It's called the Ponstellion Baseball Camp, and it's from a league in Washington, and they started going down for a week of what they call spring training. Well, for Washington, baseball starts a little earlier, Washington D.C. So we go down the end of January, and you know, getting on the field isn't too far away as long as there's no snow on the ground in the DC metro area. But I started going to that camp in 2002, and there was a group of professional coaches at this camp who were major league and minor league affiliated, and they have been coming to this camp since the beginning. This is now 2026. They've been going to the camp as long as as the longtime players, and so what happened was, you know, I was playing adult baseball, and there was a year where it rained a lot, and we had games postponed, and I'm driving around Fort Myers, and I think I was 60 years old at the time, so this would be 2016. And I said to myself, you know, what would be the chances that I could find a minor league team that would let me play, so I could live my dream of being a professional baseball player? And I grew up around in Brookline. I collected baseball cards. I played imaginary baseball games in my yard. Played wiffle ball with my friends. Watched the Red Sox on TV. You know, it's been in my blood since I was a little kid. And of course, many little kids want to be professional basketball players, hockey players, football players. Well, for me, it was baseball. So here I am, 60 years old, and I asked a couple of people at the camp. One of them was Stan Clyburn, played for the Angels in the 80s, and he's managed in the minor leagues for 1000s of games. He's still managing to this day. And Steve Little, who was a coach at the time with the Twins, I asked them, "Do you think I could find a minor league team that would allow me to play for them, so I could live my dream, play professional baseball? And they said, "Sure. Oh yeah, you you should give it a shot. And they gave me a couple names. Ultimately, it took me a year and a half, and I found the Pecos League, which is a low level of independent baseball. I got a hold of the commissioner. His name is Andrew Dunn, and I called him up in March. It turned out this would be March of 2017. I went out to my car at a lunch break from school. I had his phone number, and he answers the phone, "Hello, baseball. And I explain the situation, and he said, "You want to get in a game? We'll get you in a game. And that was that was in 2017. Michael Hingson  49:15 Wow! Evan Katz  49:16 And way it the way it turned out, he invited me out to play for the White Sands Pupfish the last weekend of the season, it had to be with teams that it wouldn't affect the playoffs. And I went out to White Sands, New Mexico, White Sands National Park is there. Alamogordo and the the White Sands Pupfish. I I pitched to two batters, walked one and hit one. I had one plate appearance and was called out on strikes. Didn't lift the bat off my shoulder. Too much fear, as I look back on it. But I became a professional baseball player at age 61. Michael Hingson  49:57 Well, so you got to live your dream. Evan Katz  50:00 Yep, Michael Hingson  50:00 and so after you pitched, what did you do? Evan Katz  50:04 Well, it was all very exciting, and I I actually was interviewed by Bill Littlefield on the NPR radio show Only a Game, talking about playing baseball at age 61, and my friends thought it was really neat and cool, and I had some pictures made, and I gave a lot of graph pictures to Stan Clyburn and Steve Little to thank them for inspiration, and it was all fun. But you know, in baseball, if you're a pitcher and you give up a run without getting anybody anybody out, you have an ERA, which is an earned run average. How many runs you give up in nine innings? Michael Hingson  50:43 Right. Evan Katz  50:43 I had an ERA of infinity. I'm in baseball reference with all these big known baseball players. I'm there with my my my stat line with an ERA of INF infinity, and I'm 65 years old, and I'm saying, man, I don't want to have an ERA of infinity. I don't want to retire with an ERA of infinity, so I got a hold of of Andrew Dunn again, and I said, Andrew, can I come out and pitch again? I want to get my ERA below infinity. I want to get somebody out. So it turns out in 2023, he assigned me to pitch for the Austin weirdos keep Austin weird, right? Keep Portland weird. Keep Burlington weird. You know, keep but whatever weird city you know they have their slogans of keeping the city weird. So Austin weirdos. And the interesting thing was that the weirdos that year in 2023, they had a home field in Austin, but it got burned out. They didn't they didn't have enough water, so they lost their home field. They turned into an all road team, and no player likes to drive through the Pecos League through the desert Southwest from Texas to Arizona, Michael Hingson  52:00 right Evan Katz  52:01 up to Kansas and Colorado for weeks on end. I get to the end of the season, the last weekend of the season in Alpine, Texas, to play the Alpine Cowboys, of course, in Texas, and the Austin Weirdos only have 11 players, and I can pitch. It's a Friday night, and there's a doubleheader on Saturday, and the manager decides, well, we got a guy here who hasn't pitched recently. He should start the game on Friday night. I get a text from the manager in the middle of the day. Evan, you're starting tonight, Derek Dominguez. Talk about no fear. Yeah, starting a 67-year-old pitcher against a lineup of 20-year, 25-year-olds, and I I started against the Alpine Cowboys, and talk about managing your fear. They have it's an old baseball stadium was built in the 1940s. It's got a grandstand behind home plate. You know, a couple things happen there. First of all, I get to the park early because the team was driving. They had to drive. This is the amazing thing. 1111, players. They had to drive 700 miles from the night before from Blackwell, Oklahoma, to Alpine. Michael Hingson  53:20 Wow. Evan Katz  53:22 The catcher comes in the dugout. Wonderful young man. You know, pitchers always worry who is going to catch them. Who's my catcher? And I'm in the dugout waiting, and a young man comes up to me, and he knows who I am, and he says, "I'm Marcus Bracy, and I'm catching you tonight. And the way he said that to me made me feel like he was going to take care of me, and we warmed up. I didn't have any fear. And one thing I did though, when I went out to the mound in the bottom of the first inning, and every inning after that, I made it to the fifth. By the way, I never looked up into the stands. I never wanted to see the crowd. I wanted to keep my eyes focused on this catcher, and that is what helped me get through. And I gave up two runs an inning into the fifth inning. And the interesting thing was that that that was about the team's average. The earned run average for the Austin Weirdos that year was 18 because they had lost so many players, they didn't have many pitchers, and I ended up for that game with an ERA of about 18. So I pitched the same as all the 25-year-old pitchers that pitched for Austin that year. Michael Hingson  54:39 There you go. That certainly is. That certainly is pretty cool. So, what year was that? Evan Katz  54:48 That was 2023. Michael Hingson  54:49 Okay. So, what's happened since? Evan Katz  54:52 Well, I was so taken by the Pecos League and some of the players there, and I had been coaching high school for three years. You know, I had. I had coached at Manchester Essex High School, just north of Boston. I had coached the pitchers and the catchers there. We won the state championship in 2022, and yeah, I saw I'd done a little bit of coaching. And I knew the Pecos League didn't have a lot of money. It didn't pay the players anything hardly. Players make less than $1,000 for most of the teams, and many of the coaches are volunteer coaches. And I asked one of the players; his name was Alex Westman, really nice, nice fellow. I met him for breakfast actually in the fall after the season. I was out visiting my my son in Arkansas. Met him in Missouri for breakfast, and I said, think, think the Pecos League could use a coach like me, and Alex is always an upbeat guy. And unfortunately, Alex was passed away a couple years ago in a tragic motorcycle accident. But I'll always be thankful for Alex for him saying to me, "Oh yeah, you should coach. So I got a hold of the commissioner. I I did coach for a few games for Roswell in 2024, but my mother-in-law took ill, and I had to come home. So last season I ended up teaming up with Todd Everleth, the manager of the North Platte '80s, who I had connected with during 2024 and introduced him to the league. He managed in North Platte, and I asked Todd if he could use a coach, and Todd invited me out to North Platte, Nebraska. And last summer, I was the bullpen coach. One of the hardest things I've ever done, if not the hardest, going from high school coaching to professional coaching at age 69, but somehow it was successful. I helped the pitchers. We ended up going to the the second round of the playoffs. We had a couple of guys called up to higher level leagues, and and it was a success. But but it was again one of the hardest things I've ever done, but at the same time, one of the most rewarding. Michael Hingson  57:04 That's pretty cool. You you did you did so much of that. So you also you've been coaching. So you've been coaching a fair amount over the last few years. You said I think at one point, you were the worst coach in 2025. Evan Katz  57:23 Oh right, not not the worst, close, the least qualified. Oh, the Michael Hingson  57:28 least qualified. Okay, right. Yeah, this is a good story. Evan Katz  57:31 So, so, so Todd and I, you know, Todd Everleth, we're driving his truck around the Midwest. I don't know, it's probably the second second or third road trip, but I'm I'm sitting there, and I'm really beginning to understand the credentials, my new Todd's credentials, and the credentials of the other coaches in in in the Pecos League, which, as I mentioned, is the lowest level of independent baseball. It's not connected to Major League Baseball, and I'm thinking to myself, there's got to be 1000s and 1000s of coaches in professional baseball, major leagues, minor leagues, other independent leagues. Here I am. I'm a coach in the Pecos League. I I have three years of high school coaching experience. I have got to be the least qualified coach in professional baseball. So I said, Todd, I think I'm the least qualified coach in professional baseball, and he he got a real kick out of that. Michael Hingson  58:30 Well, so the real question is, what's going to happen this year? What are you doing now? Evan Katz  58:35 Well, this year, you know, I I am definitely retiring from coaching, as I mentioned, you know, at my age, 69, coaching in professional baseball, you know, your your days start early. They go till late at night. You're traveling a lot in the Pecos League. We drove our own cars, so we drove over 7000 miles last summer. Michael Hingson  58:57 Wow! Evan Katz  58:57 And that that was on top of driving out to Nebraska and coming home, so over 10,000 miles over the course of the summer, way way too demanding. So, but what I'm what I'm doing, Michael, is I think that that I really have some some lessons to share and some experiences to share. And as I as I joked with Todd and some of the other players, the the pitchers out in the bullpen. We were sitting out in the bullpen one night, and the pitchers knew that I wasn't didn't have a lot of experience. And once we all got used to each other, we had a really good time out there. And I'd said to them, I said, I think I'm going to write a book, and the book is going to be the least qualified coach in professional baseball, a survival guide, basically telling the story of how somebody with the least credentials of all the professional coaches was able to figure out how to cope with the challenges and ultimately support the pitching staff. And contribute to the teams going 27 wins and 21 losses, making it the second round of the playoffs, and having players called up to higher level leagues. I think there's some lessons there to share to inspire other people, and so that that's my plan. I'm hoping to do a little bit of motivational speaking. I'm planning to write a book and tell the story of the least qualified coach in professional baseball. Michael Hingson  1:00:28 But you brought a lot of life experience to coaching. Evan Katz  1:00:31 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, this is one of the things I had to figure out. I knew my technical background was limited, so I had to figure out how can I support these players, how can I be available, and I figured out where to where to sit in the bullpen, so I could listen to their conversations and chime in when needed, and still see what's going on in the game, where to where to be in the outfield during batting practice to have casual conversations, and then I also-I don't think I mentioned this earlier-I had a podcast that I did, and so the podcast, which had a weekly episode and a guest from the Pecos League, I was always looking for stories from the team to interject into the podcast, and that was a great conversation starter. I also took a lot of pictures of the players, candid shots that they would never have been able to take on their own, and then also provide some baseball lessons along the way. You know, there was one pitcher who was very dissatisfied with his outing one night. He said, "I didn't, I don't, I didn't strike out as many guys as I wanted, or I gave up too many runs. And I said, "You left the game when we were ahead here in the Pecos League, where the team score a lot of runs. It's not the absolute results; it's the relative results. Yeah, you did your job. You left the game with the '80s in the lead, and you did great. So I figured out ways to support these guys because they had their own challenges, being away from college, being away from home. Try to figure out how I could support them to bring out their best. Michael Hingson  1:02:12 What a great story, and what a a great insightful thing you said to that pitcher. Well, if people want to reach out to you, how can they do that? Evan Katz  1:02:21 Well, I have a website called Baseball by the Sea Media, where I have some of my writing that I talked about. I've done some baseball biographies and some baseball game stories and some exclusive stories. Baseball by the Sea Media. I'm also on LinkedIn. Those are probably the two easiest ways to find me. Michael Hingson  1:02:44 How do they find you on LinkedIn? Evan Katz  1:02:46 Evan Katz, just I don't think least qualified as a search parameter on LinkedIn. No, it's probably blocked. So, Michael Hingson  1:02:55 so Evan Katz is spelled Evan Katz  1:02:57 E V A N K A T Z. Michael Hingson  1:03:00 So there you go. Well, I want to tell you that when that book comes out, we have to to do another one of these because I want to really have a chance to feature the book and all that. So keep us posted. Evan Katz  1:03:13 Absolutely, I'm I'm I'm looking forward to to working on it, Michael. And I appreciate you having me on today. Michael Hingson  1:03:18 Well, I want to thank you, and I want to thank all of you for watching and listening, and I'd love to hear from you. Feel free to email me at speaker at michaelhinkson m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com. Love it if you'd give us a five star rating, but more important than a rating, please give us a great review. Review the podcast and say nice things about Evan. That's a that's a beautiful thing to do. If anyone knows anyone who ought to be a guest on our podcast, Evan, including you, feel free to introduce us. We're always looking for people to come on and tell their stories. But for now, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you for spending an hour with us and and making it a very enjoyable and an unstoppable day. Evan Katz  1:04:03 Absolutely, Michael, it's my pleasure. Michael Hingson  1:04:08 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward. Together, thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset.

Success does not always mean moving faster, achieving more, or keeping up with someone else's timeline. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik has built a career across marketing, business development, media, travel, and entrepreneurship, yet some of her biggest lessons have come from learning when to slow down. Stephanie and I explore burnout, wellness, fear, AI, social media, intuition, and why our lives rarely follow a straight path. We talk about doing your best without needing to be the best, trusting your instincts, letting go of what you can't control, and staying open when life changes the plan. I believe you'll find useful ideas here about personal growth, resilience, and creating a life that feels like your own. Highlights: 0:10:15 - How high achievement can lead to burnout, stress, and health issues. 0:16:09 - Learning to control fear instead of letting fear control you. 0:24:30 - How asking, trying, and taking initiative can open new career paths. 0:35:35 - Doing your best matters more than being the best. 0:45:26 - Knowing when to stop pushing and let life unfold. 0:58:37 - Trying more helps you discover what you're capable of. About the Guest: Dr. Stephanie Gutnik is President of tuxedo concepts, providing management consulting and public speaking to organizations across the world. Her focus areas are integrated marketing communications, business transformation and corporate wellness. She is also the author of the children's book, “My Very Best”. Stephanie has spoken globally from Taiwan to Brazil, with notable events including Advertising Week New York and London, Ad Age's Business of Brands in Chicago, Brand Innovators in New York, Possible in Miami and AdAI in Toronto. Her articles and interviews can be found in publications such as Adweek, AdExchanger, Digiday and the Association of National Advertisers. She has also been a juror for the likes of The Drum and Future is Female. As EVP Omnichannel at Wilkins Media, Stephanie has previously held roles as Global Chief Strategy Officer at Billups, Global Head of DOOH at Yahoo, Vice President of Digital Strategy and Programmatic Sales at OUTFRONT Media, and Vice President, Business Development at Broadsign. She sits on the Board of Directors of the Canadian Association of New York and Jewish Community Foundation of Montreal. Stephanie graduated with a BA from McGill University and has a MBA and doctorate from Edinburgh Business School. Ways to connect with Dr. Stephanie**:** People can follow me on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniegutnik/) Tuxedo concepts (tuxedoconcepts.com). My book is available through Amazon and directly through Book Baby (https://store.bookbaby.com/book/my-very-best) About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi there! Welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're with us wherever you happen to be. Hope you're having a good day. Our person that we get to chat with today is Dr. Stephanie Gutnik, Doctor No Less. We'll have to find out about that, but she is is here from Toronto, where right now it's pretty cold because we're recording this on the 30th of January, so it's cold where she is. It's not quite as cold where I live in Victorville, California, but we're doing okay and we'll cope. So Dr. Gutnik is the president of Tuxedo Concepts, and I'm not going to go into any detail about it because I want to leave all that for her. So we'll just do it this way. Stephanie, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  01:49 I am so glad to be here. Thank you. Michael Hingson  01:51 Why don't you tell us a little about maybe the early Stephanie growing up and all that? Let's start with that. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  01:57 All right. The early Stephanie grew up in Winnipeg, Manitoba, which is even colder than Toronto is this time. So I'm definitely used to snow and negative temperatures, and I just had a wonderful, wonderful upbringing to be in the prairies. You get perspective on a lot in life, and was very close with family, friends, and then very quickly I wanted to discover more of the world, so I left to study at McGill for undergrad, and it's in Montreal, in Canada. And my life took shape around that. I traveled the world. I continued my academic pursuits and certainly climbed my way up in the business world as well. Michael Hingson  02:47 How did travel to various places sort of shape your outlook on things? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  02:54 I've always had the travel bug. Growing up, we would go away to you know different parts of the states and some warmer destinations with a family road trip as well. And then as I got older, it was it was Europe, it was Australia, and I was always very happy to travel alone or with groups of people that I met for the first time. And I was just really curious to see what life was like in other places, and that translated very nicely into my my working reality, where I was largely in marketing and business development throughout my career, and I was with companies at first that were rapidly expanding internationally. So I was able to open an office in China and set a business plan for you know hiring in the Middle East and go to South America and speak and and grow the business. So I'm really grateful because when I meet people now, typically wherever they're from, I can you know pick my favorite food that I ate while I was there, and we have something to smile about and talk about. Michael Hingson  04:04 That's pretty cool. Well, I I haven't traveled as as much as you have, but I've traveled enough, and I enjoy travel. I enjoy going to different places and meeting people and experiencing different customs. And even around the United States, there's so many diverse and different kinds of environments. It's it's pretty fascinating. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  04:25 Very much. Do you have a favorite place in the U.S. Michael Hingson  04:29 Oh, it's still going to be California because the weather's better. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  04:34 I hear you. I Michael Hingson  04:35 my favorite place is probably in the San Diego area because I think it's still the best weather anywhere. It's a temperate climate. It's a good climate. It doesn't really get cold to freezing very often, although it can in the winter. But it warms right up during the day. So I really like San Diego. We enjoyed my wife and I living in San the San. San Francisco area. We lived in a town called Novato, which is in the North Bay of the San Francisco area. We lived there for 12 years, and I enjoyed that too. But San Diego still has the best weather. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  05:12 The air in La Jolla is is delicious. Michael Hingson  05:17 Oh yeah, Speaker 1  05:18 yeah, Michael Hingson  05:19 and and of course that's the whole point. La Jolla is such a nice place, and it's northern San Diego County, and you've got the beach, and you've got the university there, and so many other things that make it a nice place. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  05:32 Very true. Michael Hingson  05:33 Now I live in Victorville, which is kind of up on the high desert of California, so it's not exactly the same. And I never thought I would live here. But we moved here because it was the only property in Southern California when we wanted to move down to be closer to family. It was the only property that we or place where we found property where we could build a home, and we wanted to build a home because my wife was in a wheelchair her whole life, so we wanted to build an accessible home, and that's what we did. So we've been here now. I've been here for well. We moved down in July of 2014. So my gosh, it's going to be 12 years in five months, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  06:13 isn't it? It's funny that you say that because I always find in life there just you find yourself in circumstances that you did not plan, and then they become rather permanent, and you can't really envision your life without that place or that circumstance. Michael Hingson  06:30 I hear you. I agree. And well, and you know, this house is very comfortable. I like it. My wife unfortunately passed away in November of 2022, so it's me, a dog, and a cat, but I enjoy it, and I'm I'm perfectly happy here. I said I never thought I would live in Victorville, but that's okay. That is where I am, and the house is wonderful, so I I'm I'm fine with it. If I had one thing to say about Victorville, it is the drivers up here all think they own the road, and they're as far as I'm concerned. I ought to be able to get a driver's license because I could drive as well as a lot of the people up here. I don't see the problem myself. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  07:12 But up until recently, I hadn't driven a car in like at least 12 years, just from living, you know, in more cosmopolitan cities, and really enjoying a good walk. Michael Hingson  07:24 Yeah, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  07:24 just yeah. Michael Hingson  07:25 But you drive now? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  07:27 No, I've just been behind the wheel to break that. Break that. Michael Hingson  07:31 Just to get into that habit. Yeah. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  07:33 Totally. Yeah. Michael Hingson  07:35 Well, and Toronto, you you can certainly get around Toronto without a lot Of grief, Speaker 2  07:41 totally, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  07:41 yeah. I am. I very much value the ability to live somewhere where you can just run out and pick something up to eat, or you know, see people around you. I think it's important. Certainly, it feeds me. Michael Hingson  07:58 Yeah. So, and I and really, for the most part, enjoyed living in New Jersey and working in New York City. New York City is a great place to be able to get around. It's pretty easy to to travel anywhere in the city, subways and all that. Now, it wasn't as easy for my wife because she was in a wheelchair her whole life, and a lot of subway stations and so on aren't accessible. But one day, it was actually before we moved back there. We were both we were in the city, and my wife wanted to go see the UN, and it turns out that she could go downstairs in the hotel where where we were staying, and I was doing other work. But she was able to get a bus that took her right to where the UN was. She could wheel across the street and take a tour of the United Nations and so on, and then take the bus back home because everything was accessible. So she was really excited about having had the opportunity to do that. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  09:09 I love that. Michael Hingson  09:11 Yeah, I was at. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  09:12 It really is, and it's important. I was at Yahoo for a couple years, running a division there globally, and when I started, it was part of Verizon Media. Yes, Verizon Media, part of Verizon, and the work that groups were doing on accessible features and technology really intrigued me. And you kind of think there should be an element of that at every company producing whatever it is that they're doing because it makes such a difference. Michael Hingson  09:41 Well, when you think about it in terms of, let's say, in the U.S. for example, the Center for Disease Control says that up to 25% of all people have a disability. Now, I disagree with that, and I'll come back to that in a moment. But they say 25% have a disability, and so often. Often companies don't deal with that. They're leaving out 25% of their prospective customers because they don't want to make things accessible. And there is so much evidence to show that companies that do create accessibility get the brand loyalty and they get the business, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  10:21 yeah. Michael Hingson  10:22 And the reason I object to 25% is my belief is everybody has a disability. For most of you, it's light dependence. You all don't do well when the lights go out, unless you happen to have a smartphone or a flashlight or whatever. So I describe disability as a characteristic that everyone has. It's just that it manifests itself differently for different people, but that's that's that's my view on it. And one of these days, we'll get more of society to recognize that there is a lot more that they need to do to to to deal with preventing this whole business of leaving so many people out. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  11:00 I mean, I couldn't agree more with you. By the way, and there's also, you know, call it disability or whatever you want. Everybody has something in their life that you know it either doesn't make it as easy or makes it their own. And so the whole point of you know when you talk about a customer base, really just interacting as humans, it's how do we how do we understand that everybody is dealing with you know one thing and what can we do and you know throughout my throughout my working career I was somebody who like despite being born in Winnipeg I should have been born in Manhattan because my work ethic is one where I'll work day and night and be very happy about it. I walk quickly. I get things done quickly, and so it was. You know, if you if you give me a challenge, I'll do anything to you know fulfill it. And I think what has what I've seen with myself and amongst others in my network, is that that type of personality begets a whole slew of other issues: burnout, health issues, stress. And so, one thing that I developed and have started to take on the road. I know you're a public speaker. I am as well. I call it the wellness workshop, and it's not you know get up at five in the morning and do your yoga and then your 30 minute meditation and then your your 5k run or it really is much more more tangible and certain tips and tricks that we can do when we're on an airplane or you know in a hotel or just in a period where we're feeling overwhelmed, and I really believe that we have to be cognizant of what's going on with each other in the workplace and just in general, and be able to offer some of the these these guidelines to just help everyone, you know, be okay, if you will. Michael Hingson  13:00 One of the things that I have adopted as a pretty hard line way of living is when I'm flying to travel and speak. I don't want to work on the airplane going or coming. Rather, I'll use that time to sort of mentally prepare because when I get off the airplane at a destination, I know I'm on until I get off until I fly out again. There are going to be people who want my attention and all that. So I use that time to relax, and then when I leave again, I don't want to work. I want to be able to kind of unwind. So I like to read and do things like that, but I I use those airplane flights basically as a time to unplug. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  13:49 Yeah, and see, you're being mindful of the space that you need to let yourself unwind and be that much more productive, and have your battery recharged when you're when you're landed. But I think more Michael Hingson  14:01 people should do that. And there are so many different kinds of things that we can do. We collectively, as a society, tend not to be overly introspective. We don't think about things. So something doesn't go right. We consider it a failure. We worry about it. We fret about it. But what we don't do is listen to our own inner voice, and we don't analyze well. So, what was the real problem here? What am I afraid of? What can I do to make sure that this doesn't happen again? We don't ask ourselves those questions. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  14:31 Oh wow! I kind of needed to hear that actually today. So, thank you for bringing that up. You're very right. Michael Hingson  14:37 Is that because you haven't figured out why you live in the snow. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  14:41 I'm working on that. Yeah, there you are. Yeah, cold is actually very good for our vagus nerves. So yeah, Michael Hingson  14:48 well, I it it gets fairly cool here at night. It was down to oh what 27 degrees, so it was like minus. Two or three Celsius a couple of weeks ago here, and but I am I I can keep pretty warm, and when I'm sleeping at night, my cat sleeps right up next to me. She does it because it keeps her warm, but it helps keep me warm too. So I'm not complaining. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  15:19 There you go. Michael Hingson  15:20 But I minus Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  15:21 minus two. By the way, that's beach weather. Michael Hingson  15:24 Yeah, yeah. Well, there you are. Yeah, fine. You go to the beach then. But I, but I think that we we really do need to collectively and individually think about the need to unplug to to not just always do every single thing and that the same way, and then when there's a problem, we don't take time to think about it, which is a real problem. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  15:51 There's also the concept of I don't know if we're raised with this or if at some point we think this is what happens in society, but to think that our lives are almost like a staircase, and that the older we get, the further up the staircase we should be going, is is quite a fallacy. Because again, it you know you're gonna it's just not how it works. Sometimes things stay flat. Sometimes you're gonna go down a few steps. And no, this is called. We're all about the unstoppable mindset here, right? So it really is. If you're falling down a few stairs, what do you do to get back up? I would say, Michael Hingson  16:31 right? Yeah, and that's and that's it. And you have to really look for that answer, which is which is Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  16:40 the issue. So, Michael Hingson  16:41 yeah, go ahead. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  16:42 I was just going to say, like, is that something that people can learn, or is it something that you, you know, is ingrained in you from a younger age? Michael Hingson  16:51 Well, I think that for some people it it may be, and I think, but it is a matter of life. It is a matter of upbringing. I think it is something that people can learn. So during the pandemic, I wrote my book "Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories for a Blind Person and His Dogs About Being Brave, Overcoming Adversity, and and Moving Forward in Faith. And what I talk about through as the basic premise of the book is that in reality, we can learn to control fear. I will not say we should never be a. We should never say we're not afraid. We should never say that. Oh, I don't ever experience fear. We do experience fear, and it's evidenced in so many ways. But you can either allow fear to overwhelm you and and as I would put it, blind you, or you can learn to control fear. You can learn that fear can be a very powerful tool to help you. And my evidence of that is that I learned so much prior to September 11th about what to do in emergency and other things like that. And all of that clicked in on September 11th. But I realized during the beginning of the pandemic that I'd never taught other people to do the kinds of things that that I do, and that I still tend to do. And so, I wrote "Live Like a Guide Dog" to to try to teach people by using examples that I learned from my eight guide dogs and my wife's service dog about how to live. So, the example I use most often is people. What if everything to death? Well, what if this happens? What if that happens? What if this? What if that? And the reality is, 95% of that will we have no control over, and all we do is create fear and worry because we keep going "What if" about this, and there's nothing we can do about it. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be aware of things, but we don't have to worry about them. We don't have to focus on all the stuff over which we have no control. Dogs don't. What if anything? And I learned that because on September 11th, when we got home, I was going to take my guide dog Rozelle out. I took the harness off, and she ran off and grabbed her favorite tug toy and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linnie. And when I talked to the people, the veterinarians at Guide Dogs for the Blind, where I got Roselle, I talked to them the next day. They said, "Well, did anything threaten her at the World Trade Center? And I said, "No. And they said, "There's your answer. When the harness came off, it was over for her. They don't. They don't. What if? And we should learn that. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  19:27 And she wasn't. She wasn't processing what just happened. She just moved on. Michael Hingson  19:32 She moved on. You know, and and people still today fear it, and they worry about so many Things as I said, the the fact is we should be aware, but it doesn't mean that we have to worry about, especially if we don't have control over it. I rented office space in the World Trade Center in late 1999, early 2000, and. I was able to get office space because there had been a bombing in the World Trade Center in 1993. It wasn't much of a bombing. It was an explosion in a parking lot on the fourth sub sub level of the World Trade Center. So it wasn't the last. Yeah, it wasn't a big thing, but the occupancy rate by the time I was looking for office space, had dropped to 80% and why? If if something were to happen, something would would happen. But people worried about it, and so many people left the World Trade Center, and I thank them for doing that because I got a great rate, and we rented office space there. So fine, but but the fact of the matter is that we worry about so many things over which we just don't have control, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  20:48 right? So you're a bit of a risk taker too in that sense. Michael Hingson  20:51 Well, in a sense, but you know, so there was a bomb that a car something exploded, and I understand that, but was it a true risk to go off and rent space in that building and that complex afterward? Well, is there risk in doing it today with the new complex? The fact of the matter is that there are always going to be things that can happen. the The question is, is it really taking a risk, or are you being silly and putting yourself in harm's way? I won't do that if I can avoid it. But that doesn't mean that I'm not gonna gonna be out there and try to live my life and and help others do the same. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  21:38 That's the biggest thing: not living in fear of of so many different variables, Michael Hingson  21:44 right? So you went to McGill, and you you worked in you graduated with what degrees in business or what? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  21:53 No, I graduated with a bachelor of arts in political science and communications. Okay, I went to McGill thinking that I was going to become a broadcast journalist. I loved the idea of being on camera and in the heat of something going on. And I've been told that I ask a lot of questions, and it's just it comes naturally. I'm very curious, so I love speaking to people and getting their opinions on various things, and then bringing that all together for what hopefully is a representative story of multiple truths, right? And I'm still like that to this day. So everything, if I had you know strength, it would be how do I compile a lot of information and then kind of organize it to to cut certain things out and really get at the crux of whatever it is that we're dealing with. So I loved I loved that. I still do. I had an internship at CTV Montreal, so it was a big news station nationally in Canada. And you know what? It was one of those things where I just didn't feel like a fit for me at that time, and so again, it's what do you do after? Oh, I was entering my my last year of undergrad, and I I thought, okay, maybe I'll just go do a master's because I really loved. I've always loved school, and instead, I got the advice: just go out there and pick something and work a little bit and figure out, you know, what it is that you want to do from there. When you're, I graduated a year early, so I was 21. It is hard to know what you want to do, right? I think a lot of young people find themselves in that position, and instead of, I guess, going back to the idea of fear, instead of being paralyzed by it and not doing anything, just do something, and at least it puts you on some sort of path. So, what did Michael Hingson  23:44 you do? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  23:45 I got lucky. I ended up working for News Corp in Montreal for a couple of years in advertising sales, and that introduced me to the world of advertising. It helped me refine sales sales, you know, efforts and and skills, and I think that understanding how sales work, whatever you do in your life, that's going to come in handy, right? So I was doing that, and I was dealing with agencies and marketers for various different brands, like L'Oreal, for example, Denon, and I liked what they were doing. So then that led me to a job in marketing for a software company, and that's the story: is marketing turned into business development and partnerships, and launching a new tech effort and expanding with that company across the world. And I was able to lean into a lot of writing and speaking, and that's that's how my career evolved. And I did my MBA while I was working for that company, so there were a lot of lots of studying during plane rides. So not quite the unwinding, but it was definitely a break. From the actual work, Michael Hingson  25:02 well, that's fine, and you, you, you've you've done a lot with it. So you got your master's degree. Where did you get that from? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  25:11 That was from Edinburgh Business School. So I did that remotely because I was traveling a lot, and I had a lot of business in the UK. So it made sense to do something around there, and again from there I was recruited to. I built a lot of my own positions while I was at this company, always going, "Oh, this isn't being dealt with. Why don't I take a stab at it and see what happens? Oh, there's a gap here. Let me figure that out. Even you know, the Middle East is one that I like talking about because at the time we were not doing any business there, and I had a hunch that I was like, "Look at all the research. We should be there. We should have a sales rep at least. And the CEO at the time said, "No, no, it's it's not really. I don't agree. So we made a deal for a small amount of money. I was able to figure out my trip and see if I could make a business plan, and so I took a flight from Montreal that had two stops to get there. Lost my luggage, and I know. But on the way back, I mean, long story short, the company now has a thriving business in that region, and while I was there, maybe there's a certain age at which you don't know any better. But I think I've always had this and always will. Is I was raised to understand that if you don't ask, either you don't get or you won't know. So I reached out to the editor of Golf News, which is their biggest paper there? And I said, "Hey, you know, I'm here growing a business in this industry. Can I write an article for you? And he said, "Yes, and it was published. And so stories like that is it kind of defines my life. I always like to figure out what else I could do and and learn from it and push the envelope a little bit. Michael Hingson  27:02 Yeah, sometimes you have to to take a stand. Sometimes you you have to develop your own mental toughness. And when when people disagree, you unless they can really present some strong argument, then you really just need to to push forward. And and clearly that's what you did, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  27:21 yeah. And look, sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're wrong, and that's a learning experience in itself, and that's part of being humbled. And I think that's equally as important. Michael Hingson  27:32 Yeah, and it's all part of the adventure of life. If Speaker 3  27:40 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  28:13 What made you decide to get a doctorate? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  28:16 Ah, so after the MBA again, I loved school, and I figured, why not just keep going? And I was moving to New York, and it was my mom who said, "You know what, Steph? Like, you're. I think I was I was 26. She goes, "Just enjoy your life a little bit, and she wasn't wrong. So I took a few years, and after that, it was still at the back of my mind. I still really wanted to continue and take my education as far as I could. So I thought long and hard about what I would want to study for that kind of time. And you know, it's not going to change the world. But I studied the advertising effects of mass media and ones that have been changing as a result of you know the whole media landscape has been digitized, so that's what I did. And actually, the the brand that I worked with for my research is a company out of California called Goodr. So they they make sunglasses, and I worked with their marketing team, and it was just a wonderful experience. And again, it's a different way of thinking. By that point, I was very much an executive, and I had been at private and public companies. And going back to school in that sense and learning, you know, in the business world, everything is about being concise, which I think is a very powerful skill to have. And in academia, you slow things down, and you really look at the whole picture plus all of the small, small details that build it. So, I'm an impatient person, and that definitely took some some work, but I loved the whole process. It wasn't easy, but I'm very happy that I did it. Michael Hingson  30:03 So, when did you get your PhD? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  30:05 I graduated. I want to say two odd years ago, two or three years ago. Michael Hingson  30:11 Congratulations! Well, that's cool. Thank you Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  30:13 very much. Yeah. Michael Hingson  30:15 How how do you think that AI is affecting the the world of media, the world of public relations and marketing, and so on. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  30:27 So, despite working in ad tech, I myself am quite a luddite. I I'm very removed. I don't have too much social media, and usually with technology, unless it really benefits me, I'm not going to be the first. I'm not going to be an early adopter, if you will. So with AI, I appreciate you know the the code and so on that it's built on all of the the knowledge behind it and how it works. And I definitely think there's so many realms in which it's going to help us advance as a society, and I think that with advertising and marketing and media, AI helps take out. It's there's something that preceded it in terms of media buying called programmatic that I've spent a lot of my career dedicated to, and programmatic just really automated media buying and selling, made a little bit easier than picking up the phone and calling two dozen different vendors to put a campaign together, and so with AI, it does that even more so. It just takes out a lot of the more tedious and redundant work from media planners to strategists and helps us understand a little bit better how marketing dollars are actually put to work, and how effective they are in terms of the results that we see. But here's the thing: is as much as AI is going to simplify certain processes, we, at the end of the day, are human beings, and the reason why, as far as I know, nobody's really mastered the stock market yet. It's because we're driven by emotion and we're fickle, and think it takes a lot for a machine to understand how we think and how we work. And so the same thing applies to advertising because for an ad to be effective, it has to strike a chord with humans somehow. So I think that by nature of us being human, the the world of advertising will still have media departments and creative teams, and have to continue to think about you know the strategy behind what it is that we're doing. Michael Hingson  32:34 How about social? What would you say? Well, I I think there's a lot of truth to all that. I think that AI is a tool, and different people will use it in different ways. And I'm not going to even go to the negative aspects of it because the the reality is most anything that we create, somebody will find a way to misuse it, and and I can't worry about that. But I do see the value of AI and the AI technology, in terms of how it can help us codify or create different kinds of aspects of whether it's marketing or or anything else, AI can assist us. But it is a tool, and we're still the humans, and we're going to be the ones that will be in control. I'm not ready to accept that it can take over in the end. I don't think that's going to happen. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  33:28 I'm still. I'm still not even thinking about Michael Hingson  33:32 it. Yeah, I just think I think there are a lot of ways that we can use it. AI has done already a number of really good things for us collectively, and I think that's great. That doesn't mean that we're all going to use it, or that doesn't mean that we'll all use it extremely, well, in an extremely productive way all the time. But it is out there, and I think it's again, it's one of those things that's worth learning about and understanding because it's going to be here. It's not going away, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  34:07 right? Michael Hingson  34:08 How about social media? That's the that's the other one that's become even more pervasive. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  34:14 And social media, again, just by nature of who I am, I am not big on it, and it's not knocking it. I just know that it's not, it's not something that I want to have in my life to the extent that some others do want it in theirs. I'm really good with just doing my own thing and focusing on my little bubble in terms of you know the restaurants that I choose to go to and what food I'm eating and and all of that and with the people who are in my life I love hearing from them directly and getting updates and seeing their pictures so I definitely I use LinkedIn for business I think it's fantastic yeah and it's a wonderful platform to to build a profile and interact with people. Your world that way, and I think that there's a lot of people doing the same with other platforms. And so, when I look at social media from a business perspective, I think it's amazing. And when I look at it from a personal perspective, again, it's not for me, but I I think if people enjoy being on it, that's totally up to them. I can't. I just don't really have the patience to to. I'd rather do something else. I'd rather work on, you know, either my my full time job or my my business is on the side, or go for a walk. Quite frankly. Well, Michael Hingson  35:39 I think again, I'm I'm I'm kind of with you. I think that, especially personally speaking, people who spend hours a day on social media are missing out on so many other kinds of things that would would be even better. And and a lot of that has to do with personal contact with other people, which you don't have. No matter what people may say, you don't have when you're just dealing with communicating through social media. That's not the same. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  36:08 It's true. Plus, there's the element. Yeah, and there's I think people feel pressure, and we see this. It goes both ways, but I do think there's a bit of a pressure to put your best foot forward in a social media environment, right? Whether it's Photoshop or editing or posing for you know a lovely photo when you're not doing great, whatever it might be, and I think that's slowly changing. But for me, it's more. Think we're all just trying to do our best, and you know, I don't. It just doesn't work for me on a personal level. Michael Hingson  36:45 Yeah, I think we should try to be doing our best all the time, anyway. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  36:48 Yeah, that's true. Exactly. We should. Well, that actually leads me to. This is a. You know, I'm. I'm going to go for it. This is a plug. It's. I wrote a book called My Very Best for that reason. Actually, I was going to talk to you about that. Yeah, go Michael Hingson  37:03 ahead. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  37:04 So you know exactly what you're doing. Yeah. And by the Michael Hingson  37:07 way, I would appreciate it because I don't think that you did send me a picture of the book cover that we can put in the the notes, the show notes. I Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  37:14 did, and I will follow up with that again. Thank you so much. It's that was something that I've always wanted to do. When I was younger, my mom tells me about how I used to bring a stack of books over to her to read to me, and I definitely have fond memories of reading books to my sister, who's younger than me. And I've always just loved children's books because they're they're so beautiful in their simplicity and the way that they can frame a young mind into being curious and imagining and learning so much about the world, and so I wanted to definitely write a book about the values that my sister and I were raised with. She told me that she was having our first child about a year ago at this time, and so in that time frame, I was like, "This is the moment. This is when I have to write a book. And so I wrote it for for him and her, my nephew. And it was one thing where I just I started with writing out the the copy, and then I needed to get it illustrated, and then from there I was like, you know what? I've done all this work. Let me let me publish it. And so I just was a big learning experience and so much fun. And I had readings, and I just went to go see it on the shelf at Canada's biggest bookstore called Indigo. And I'm I'm so thrilled. So I wrote it because my parents really-they raised my sister and I to really understand that it's not about being the best; it's about giving something your best effort. Because that way, you know, if you do well, great-you worked really hard to get there. And if you don't do well, you're not going to be wondering, hmm, if I only had tried more, because then you're disappointed with yourself. So it's about setting yourself up to always be proud of who you are, and that's really important to me. Michael Hingson  39:11 Are there any books, other books inside of you that may come on in the future? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  39:14 Oh, well, that one I I'm loving right now. If we consider my thesis, my doctoral thesis, a book, that one will put you to sleep because it's long and quite academic. Many theses Michael Hingson  39:31 will do that. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  39:32 Yeah, and I think I quite like. I can see moving forward the more journalistic style articles. So maybe there are a few of those that address very specific moments or questions. Maybe we'll we'll see some of those come out. And what about you? Given that you are also you're a New York Times bestseller, do you have anything up your sleeve? Michael Hingson  39:53 Not at the moment, but we'll see down the line. But one of the things that that I believe. His and I and I've roused about this even on the podcast a few times. I think that textbooks are so boring, and they shouldn't be. I think that every every textbook that that someone writes ought to have some personal things in it to help draw readers into being more excited about learning more about what's in the textbook. So a physics book is is real lovely, but it's very boring. Why don't Why don't they have Why don't the physicists, the scientists who create those books, put in as part of what they do some stories about their efforts, some stories about the discoveries they've made to really make the books more personal and to draw people in. Publishers don't want that, but the reality is it would really attract, I think, a lot more interest in textbook material. And and the same thing with technical journals and technical manuals. They're so boring, and there's so much more that could be done with them. I think that would would attract people much more than than they do today. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  41:07 There's something about humanizing and adding a little bit of maybe even imperfection. Dare I say, like, hey, this is what happened, and let's be real about the situation. That yeah, makes it more entertaining for sure. Yeah, Michael Hingson  41:20 yeah, which I think makes makes perfect sense, and and it would be I think a wonderful thing to do. Well, maybe we'll have to start a new publishing company and insist that the people who write books for our company do that. Some to think about it. I'm with you. We Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  41:38 can we can offline on that. Michael Hingson  41:40 Yeah, ought to be able to do something with it. Well, so anyway, for you, so you wrote the children's book, and and it's out there. Did you self publish it, or was it published by a company? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  41:53 Yeah, I went through a company based in New Jersey, and they just had the perfect platform and distribution for me, and it really-I would say-around the time that I was 35, which is now when I turned that age, I really started thinking about like you know, okay, our life doesn't have to be cut and paste, and there really is no manual. And I had thought that for most of it, I would look at people that I admire or respect, or people around me, and look at them, evaluate the milestones that they had reached by specific ages, and then I'd look at myself, and you know, sometimes I was feeding those milestones. In my opinion, like I, I worked my way up the corporate ladder very quickly, but there were other ways in which, at the time, I thought I was lagging or, or dare I say, failing, because certain other elements of my life weren't where other people's were, or I thought it should be. So I've been going through a process really of of letting that go, and again, just to your going full circle to what you said earlier, just being a bit more introspective and appreciating that we're all again trying to just do our best here, and nobody's journey is going to look the same. So with that has just come. I've always again I've always wanted to try new things, but it always is. I'll wake up in the morning and go like, you know, what do I want to do today? Who should I reach out to to see if there's some way to collaborate or have a new experience? And it's just made for really fun travels and stories and successes and and learning experiences. And I'm, but I'm working on that. I can say that as much as I want, and I think, you know, it's it's really believing it that is a bit more of an effort. Michael Hingson  43:48 Well, there you go, and you know, it'll it'll be interesting to to see how it all comes out as you go forward. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  43:54 Yeah, did you have that at all throughout yours? As you know, those periods of of Like plateaus, Michael Hingson  44:02 I think probably so, but I but I don't think that I really ever thought that that I was failing. There were times that that things were not happening the way I would like, and usually what I needed to do was to make an adjustment in my attitude to understand why things were going slower or not the way I expected, and sometimes they weren't going the way I expected because I had the wrong expectations. And again, I love introspection, and those are things that I learned along the way. And I also discovered that when I reevaluated and said, "Oh, maybe this really wasn't the right way to do this. Let's look at this. I think that's that's an important thing to do, but I usually find, and I still do, that if something's not working right. Usually, my inner voice, if you will, will tell me what is good, what's working, what's not working, what should be done, and I have to be the one to pay attention to that. and And if I don't, then I can get into trouble. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  45:15 It's amazing how much our our gut instincts really know what's best for us in certain situations, and how sometimes it takes a minute for our brain to to get there too. Michael Hingson  45:29 Yeah. Now, are you a spiritual person at all? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  45:32 Oh, totally. Another good segue. Yes, I believe in the scientific method, obviously. So, so that's that's that. But I am comforted by the idea that there's a lot more to what we're doing here than what is commonly accepted. Michael Hingson  45:50 Yeah, I think I think that's absolutely true, and that gets back to my comment about the inner voice, which is, if you want to say God talking to us or however you want to view it. It doesn't matter. the The point is that I think the information is there if we learn to listen and and accept it. Our our own minds absorb so many things that we tend to forget about, but all that information is there for us to use if we would, but tap into it, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  46:24 yeah, Michael Hingson  46:24 or allow it, or when it and it when it tries to tap us on the shoulder and say do it this way, we need to learn to listen. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  46:32 Ooh, and that's a great point too. Is for people who are used to propelling, you know, things forward, and you had mentioned what's out of our control. That's another really important word that I speak about in wellness and has been given to me. Yeah, do I see a do I see a psychic? Absolutely. I often get the words render because, again, sometimes it's just it's being able to to accept, and I do a little bit of Kabbalah in terms of reading and and learning about how that works. And the the term actually means to receive. So when we look at what we're doing here again, I think you want to put out some energy to put things in motion, and then there's a point where you just have to let life come to you. Michael Hingson  47:21 Well, and I think also it's it's so helpful at night to when when falling asleep, even you want to do something. Ask your ask yourself, what do you think about this? Should I do this? Give me guidance and give me insight as to what works. The more of that we do, the more we develop our mind muscle to be able to get the information and process it and do something with it, and that will help us. But it it has to be a discipline that we create and develop to really work on getting that information and seeking it every day, and listening to what our minds are telling us. I, people probably will get bored with this because I say it often on the podcast, but I talk about Trivial Pursuit. You know the game. How often do we get a question asked on a game, Trivial Pursuit, and we immediately think of an answer, and we go, "Oh, that was just too easy. That can't be it. And we think a little bit more about other options, and we choose a different option. But the first one that we thought about was really the right answer. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  48:33 Yes, Michael Hingson  48:34 exactly. And the point is that happened, and people agree. Now, what do we do about it? Well, we learn to listen to that inner voice. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  48:42 The same thing happens with students, by the way, on exams. Multiple choice is not always that easy because so many students have the tendency to second guess themselves. Michael Hingson  48:53 Yeah, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  48:54 and it's usually that their first instinct was the right answer. Michael Hingson  48:57 Right. Yeah. If they would just but listen and learn; they'll get the right answer by doing that. And and the reality is that I think there are some studies that have been done that people that truly do learn to listen and take those first answers and use them tend to be right a whole lot more often than they otherwise would have been, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  49:21 yeah. Again, trusting our instincts, Michael Hingson  49:25 right? Yeah. So, what kind of projects are you working on now? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  49:30 Oh, well, again, I I'm an EVP at an ad agency, so that's my that's my full time project. EVP. But then I always EVP, Executive Vice President. Michael Hingson  49:40 Oh, EVP. Okay, yeah, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  49:41 yeah. Okay, Michael Hingson  49:42 VP. Okay, got Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  49:43 it. Yeah, with an E. You know, if we're if we're looking at, so that keeps me very busy. And then on the side, I always again, I think it's very important to have an identity outside of work, and this is something that I actually had to learn. Because for a while there, my my job title and so on was my whole life, and you can do have hobbies and so on. The side for me, it has to be more constructive than that. So the other things that I have on the go is I have my company Tuxedo Concepts, where I do all different types of consulting work. I have clients across the world in the world of media through to you know a private equity fund called Links Equity, and I'm actually working on a protein superfood snack right now called Balance Bites. So that's another I'm snacking all the time, and I have a massive sweet tooth, so usually I'm going for like the brownies and the cookies, and I work with the founder of this brand, and they're packed with a lot of nutrients that give me a lot more energy throughout the day. So that is something that I definitely want to bring to more people. Michael Hingson  50:58 Oh, that's exciting! Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  50:59 It lines very nicely with this this whole wellness kick that that I'm trying to bring to others, but not not in the lifestyle that's impractical to some people or makes them you know not even want to think about it. More so again with those ideas of if you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious, splash some cold water on your face, right? Like there's there's certain tips like that that you don't have to go to a yoga studio or sign up for a gym membership. Though you know you should be exploring physical activity. It's what are small things that we can be doing for ourselves to bring us back into the moment. Michael Hingson  51:37 Do you think there are things in your life that that you're not doing that-that you should be doing, or that that you miss. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  51:46 Oh, on a personal level, I feel yeah. At this age, that probably from a family perspective, I should be getting on that. But that is one of those things that is so out of our control, and I find that in those instances, just it's very easy to look at what we don't have and yearn for it, but that can be depressing. So instead, it's it's much more fulfilling to look at what we do have and lean into that. Right? Michael Hingson  52:19 Yeah, I know that when my wife and I got married, we both pretty much thought we knew what we wanted in a partner, and we kept looking until we found it. We found each other, and and that worked. But we were I was 32 and she was 33, so we didn't get married right away, but the other side of it is we met in January of 1982, and we got married in November of 1982 because it clicked. We knew what we wanted, and we saw things in so many ways exactly the same. But there were also times that we disagreed with things. But you communicate. You you work through it, right? Michael Hingson  53:03 So, for example, she didn't want to have children because she felt that that would be kind of hard on her body being in a chair in her case, and I was fine with that. But our our solution to that was we'll be glad to entertain nieces and nephews and things like that because at the end of the day, we can either sell them to the gypsies or send them home, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  53:24 and that's beautiful, right? You still have such a wonderful impact on other people, and that's a thank you for sharing that. And one of my one Michael Hingson  53:34 of our nieces lives about three miles from me, and we see each other all the time. She and her husband, and now their kids are grown and have kids of their own, so we we get to see everybody. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  53:47 That is lovely. What about you? Are there any things that you still have on your bucket list that you'd like to be doing right now? Michael Hingson  53:55 Well, I certainly want to do more speaking because I want to keep that going. I'd like to to travel more, but it's not nearly as fun for me, at least traveling alone. But one of these one of these years, certainly in the next two or so years, I'll probably decide to take a cruise because I love cruising. Yeah, me Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  54:15 too. Michael Hingson  54:16 And I and I can do really fine cruising. I think that's a lot of fun to Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  54:21 do. Definitely. Which which part of the world would you cruise in? Michael Hingson  54:25 You know, I'm pretty open on that. I I first of all, I've been to New Zealand. I'd love to go to Australia, but as far as cruising, I'm pretty open. I'd like to to do a cruise up and down the Mississippi River, but I'd like to to to do some cruising around Europe or other places as well. I think it'd be fun. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  54:46 Yes, I I very much agree. My family went on. I was very fortunate. We did four cruises together, my parents, sister, and I all over the Caribbean and Mexico, and then I did one in South America, and I've done one. In Greece and Turkey, and I also I took a catamaran with about a dozen strangers in Thailand for almost two weeks. Yes, well, because why not? Michael Hingson  55:12 First cruise that we took, Karen was a travel agent at the time, actually, and her family wanted to go on a cruise. We did a two week Trans Panama Canal cruise, that was a lot of fun. Loved it. Then we did a cruise to Mexico, and I think we did another cruise in the Caribbean, and then the last cruise we took was to Alaska, which was a lot of fun. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  55:42 Okay, that is wonderful. Michael Hingson  55:45 Yeah. Was there anything Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  55:45 in Alaska that surprised you? Michael Hingson  55:48 Nothing that surprised me. It was just fun to go for me and and Karen actually. Although it's fun to get off and tour, we're fine if we're just on the ship the whole time, even just because it's the it's relaxing, it's the attitude and and and having fun. But but I would like to go and and cruise some. I think we'll do that sometime in the near future. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  56:13 Well, I mean, I'm all for it. You let me know when you go. Want to go? Yeah, I'm down. Michael Hingson  56:20 Yeah, we'll have to do that. That'd be fun, but yeah, we'll kick off Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  56:24 our textbook company on the cruise. Michael Hingson  56:26 There you go. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  56:27 Multitask Michael Hingson  56:28 books afloat Inc. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  56:30 Love Michael Hingson  56:33 it, but I think there's there's so much to do that you know we'll make it work. So you um um we talked about a little bit, but you really feel that having been in a variety of cities has helped your life perspective. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  56:48 Definitely. Look, the the way that you're just talking about travel, it's the same thing. Where I've lived in four cities and have traveled to many more, and it shapes you certainly when you when you make moves, I moved a couple times for work, for example. You are often finding yourself somewhere where you're alone, and you have to build a whole new community and support system. And sometimes that can be very lonely. And as much as I love spending time with myself, or but I think overall it really proves to you that you can be resilient and you can make you know wonderful things out of situations that you you didn't know what would happen, right? So similar to you not knowing that you would live where you do now, yeah, it's a beautiful testament to what we can do as humans, what we're capable of. Michael Hingson  57:44 Life's an adventure. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  57:46 I know. I love that theory. Michael Hingson  57:48 So, for you, what's been one of your biggest learning lessons over the last year? Since I assume you still believe that you learn all the time, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  57:57 I learn all the time. And again, I think it really is just going back to the spirituality element. Man plans, God laughs. I definitely have thought that there's a lot in my life that I had the ability to plan out. And even when I think things are going in a certain direction, the universe has this fun way of you know establishing a plot twist and seeing how I react to it. So yeah, maybe it's it's not take certain things as seriously and and kind of learn to go with the flow a little bit more. That's the biggest lesson there. Michael Hingson  58:33 Good for you. That's a that's a very important lesson. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  58:37 Yeah. So maybe it's a little bit later in life, but you know, it's never too late for these things. Michael Hingson  58:43 Never. What would be Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  58:44 one of yours? Michael Hingson  58:46 Well, I think for me, spending more time being introspective has has been a great lesson for me, and I've learned to to step back and again not plan so much, as you said. Man plans, God laughs. I don't know. I would say God laughs. God's just patient, and He says, "Go do what you're going to do, and then let me know when you're ready to get real. But you know, I I think there's a lot of truth to that. So for me, I'm just constantly learning to be a little bit more patient, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  59:22 a good one too. Michael Hingson  59:24 So, what kind of advice would you give to an up-and-coming entrepreneur or person about living life? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  59:32 Ah, Speaker 4  59:34 just Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  59:35 do do everything. Do everything that you want to do. Really, would be because I think that like the more that you try, the more you are learning about what you are capable of and who you are as a person. The more different types of people that you meet, the more opportunities that might come your way. And some of it you're not going to like. That's a learning lesson. And some of it. You're going to love. So, if there's, so I would say do all of that, and then the other one is, is make it happen, because nothing will come to you if you are not going after it. And I just said that we have to surrender and let things come to us, but I really believe that there has to be not a manifestation, but really just some intention to push us in a certain direction, and that that hard work is necessary in anything that's really good that comes to us in life. Anything that's good is going to take work. Michael Hingson  1:00:36 The only thing that I would add to that is when you said there are things that might might be happening. That might happen that you don't like. My only comment to that would be: step back and try to figure out why you don't like them, and see if there's really a reason. Because we we we are such a knee jerk reaction society. It's always good to analyze and go, what really is the issue here? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:01:00 Yeah, you're so right. Michael Hingson  1:01:02 Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely fun. It has now been over an hour, and it's got to be past the beginning of your dinner time. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:01:12 It's almost past my bedtime on a Friday night. How about there? You go. Well, Michael Hingson  1:01:17 I really appreciate you doing this and and spending the time with us, and I I've learned a lot, and I hope other people have. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:01:27 Oh, please reach out on LinkedIn. It's just Stephanie Gutnick. You'll find me. Michael Hingson  1:01:33 Spell that if you would, just to play safe. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:01:35 Yes, absolutely. S T E P H A N I E, and the last name is Gutnick. G U T is in Tom and is in Nancy I K. Michael Hingson  1:01:45 So hunt down Stephanie on LinkedIn. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:01:49 Stephanie doesn't know who Tom or Nancy are, but she just thought that those would be helpful names. Well, Michael Hingson  1:01:54 there you go. Well, hey, whatever works. Yeah, Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:01:57 exactly. Michael Hingson  1:01:58 There you are, Michael. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:01:59 Thank you so much. Michael Hingson  1:02:00 It's been a pleasure. Well, I want to thank all of you for being here with us, and hope you've learned some things today, and that you've enjoyed it. Wherever you're monitoring our podcast, please give us a five star review. But even more, or rating, but more important, give us a great review. Reviews are things that people like to see when they're thinking about what podcast to listen to, so we value your reviews greatly. And if you'd like to reach out to me, it's easy. It's speaker, S P E A K E R at Michael Hinkson, M I C H A E L H I N G S O n.com. Love to hear from you. If you know anyone who ought to be a guest on the podcast, let us know. Stephanie, you as well. Always looking for more people, and so I appreciate you doing that. And with that, Stephanie, once more, thanks for being here. This has been fun. Dr. Stephanie Gutnik  1:02:50 Thank you so much. I very much agree. Michael Hingson  1:02:55 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to MichaelHingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by fear, it explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset.

What happens when the career you built changes, disappears, or no longer feels right? I talk with content marketing leader Nicole Pytel about career change, burnout prevention, imposter syndrome, entrepreneurship, professional identity, and the growing role of AI in content marketing. Nicole shares how she moved from sports journalism into business, built her own agency, learned to shut work off, and later chose employment over entrepreneurship without seeing it as a step backward. We also explore what layoffs can teach us about identity, why confidence can exist beside fear, and how AI can support human skill instead of replacing it. Her story is a strong reminder to trust what you know, keep learning, and ask yourself one powerful question: Why not you? Highlights: 21:44 - The turning point that pushed Nicole to leave television. 28:50 - Why never shutting off from work led to burnout. 39:34 - How confidence can exist alongside fear and imposter syndrome. 45:35 - What a layoff can reveal about professional identity and self-worth. 50:24 - Why AI still needs human judgment, strategy, and creativity. 1:00:24 - Why trusting your gut can make career change worth the risk. About the Guest: Nicole Pytel is a content marketing leader who's spent her career translating complicated things into stories people actually want to hear — first from a newsroom, now from the executive table. Her career started in TV news as a sports reporter, where she covered the legendary Friday night lights of high school football and spent her Saturdays on the sidelines of Texas A&M's Kyle Field. She was eventually promoted to news anchor, and those days of turning complex topics into compelling stories still shape how she approaches content strategy today. Nicole then spent nearly a decade as the founder of Premier Content Source, a content marketing agency she grew to serve over 1,000 clients across multiple industries. She later worked as an embedded content marketing expert inside teams at Google Cloud, Chrome Enterprise, and YouTube. Most recently, Nicole served as Vice President of Content Marketing at Firebrand Communications, where she built the agency's content marketing line of business from zero and held a seat on the executive leadership team. Today, Nicole is focused on how AI is changing content marketing, building a four-chapter framework for how content teams should operate now that AI has fundamentally changed how buyers search, discover, and evaluate the companies they work with. Whether it's a thirty-second news segment or a company's entire content strategy, Nicole's guiding belief hasn't changed: if you can't make the audience care, you're just making noise. Ways to connect with Nicole**:** LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolepytelmarketing/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hi again, everyone, and once again, it is time for another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. We are having a lot of fun doing these podcast recordings, and I really appreciate all of you being out there. Love to hear from you if any of you have any comments on any of the things that we talk about, or even if you don't comment anyway. We'd love to hear from you, but I really appreciate you all being here and and and interacting with us today. We get to chat with Nicole Pytel. My screen reader pronounces it Pytel, but you know we were just besmirching technology, and it deserves it because it should pronounce it right. But anyway, that's okay. But no help. Nicole has been very much involved in a lot of content marketing and in a variety of things. I think we're going to have a lot of fun chatting and talking about different business things, and who knows what else will come up in the course of the conversation. That's what makes it fun because it is truly and always is intended to be a conversation. And who the heck knows where things may go as we follow along? But we'll make it work. So Nicole, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Nicole Pytel  02:08 Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm so excited, and yeah, I can't wait to see where the conversation goes. Michael Hingson  02:14 I can't either. It'll we'll have a lot of fun with it. Well, I love to start this way. Tell us about the early Nicole, growing up and and all that. Let's get people to have a chance to get to know you a little bit. Nicole Pytel  02:28 Yeah, well, the the early Nicole is a a Florida native. I know people are always a little baffled by that. Not everybody in this state is from a transplant from New York or Philly or Boston or any of those places. Some of us are born here. And have you made Michael Hingson  02:43 and have you made friends with all the gators? Nicole Pytel  02:46 Ah, no, no. I stay away from the gators. Antisocial, Michael Hingson  02:50 aren't Nicole Pytel  02:51 they? They're yeah, they're they're a bit unfriendly. Yeah, I've I've never seen one in the wild, and I I'd like to keep it that way. Yeah, I hear you for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, born in Miami, grew up in Fort Lauderdale. the The only daughter of two former Miami Dade police officers. So, yes, yes. My mom was actually an undercover narc in the days of the cocaine cowboys. So, she is incapable of being intimidated. And personally, I think she's amazing and also a little crazy for doing that. But yeah, grew up as an only child, had you know four-legged brothers. You know, just had a great childhood. You know, just really like as great as it could be. You know, dad worked from home, had his own business. Mom worked with dad a lot of the time and was in the PTA and running the Girl Scouts and the young astronauts and all all the things. So, you know, really great childhood and a lot of lessons that really kind of you know still stick with me today and kind of gave me that foundation to go and do all the really cool things I've done as a grown-up. A lot of lessons learned. So you know, it was a good childhood. Michael Hingson  04:06 What did your dad do, and what does he do? Nicole Pytel  04:09 He well, he was after he left the police force. He started his own business. He reconstructed traffic accidents. So he was an expert witness. His clients were personal injury attorneys in South Florida, which is probably the worst client you could have on the planet. Those are some demanding folks. He handled it really, really well. He had his own business for gosh, 30 years. So yeah, he was he was amazing. Michael Hingson  04:38 Did he ever consult for CSI Miami. Nicole Pytel  04:43 No, he did not. Just checking. Did not. The one that was the one cool thing he didn't do. No. Michael Hingson  04:48 Yeah. Well, talk about the potential for pressure, but that's okay. Sounded like he had a a good time and enjoyed what he did, and and it does sound very fascinating. It is. It is Nicole Pytel  05:02 indeed. Although you know, when you're learning to drive as a teenager and your father does that for a living, you know, you've you've seen all the terrifying accident photos and heard all the stories, and so it's a it's a little stressful learning to drive from somebody who sees the worst of the worst every single day, but you know, we made it. Michael Hingson  05:23 And did Dad work as a backseat driver for you every so often? Nicole Pytel  05:27 Oh, 100% 100% literally. I mean, till the day he died, he was the world's worst backseat driver. I, you know, I'm in my 30s, and he's like, "What are you doing? You know, so yeah, absolutely, 100% Michael Hingson  05:42 How about mom? Nicole Pytel  05:44 Oh, mom, mom is amazing, and yes, she's a backseat driver as well. Okay, I am as well. So, but you know, mom, mom is tough and and also amazing, and you know, such a a great mom to her fur kids and a good grandma to my fur kids, and you know, just just amazing the life that she's had. You know, just grew up as a State Department brat, lived all over the world, was cop, like just wild, just wild. So I I have I have some very cool parents. Michael Hingson  06:15 Do you have any kids of the two legged variety? Nicole Pytel  06:18 Not the two legged variety. I've got two of the four-legged kind. Yeah, Michael Hingson  06:22 that works. Yeah, they're they're demanding enough. Nicole Pytel  06:26 Oh, mine are little little tiny divas. Absolutely, and I'm proud of it. They were raised to be little spoiled divas. Michael Hingson  06:33 Well, I have my guide dog Alamo, and we have a cat who's now 16 and a half years old, named Stitch. She's the real demanding one, she she likes to be petted while she eats, and the only way to keep her from disturbing a podcast to get fed is to keep the door closed, which I do. But the the thing is that if if the door opened, she'd probably be in here, and she would be insisting pretty loudly if I didn't respond, that she needs me to go pet her while she eats. She loves it, and it's fine. There are just a few times that she doesn't get to do it, and mostly she's pretty quiet about it since the door's closed. But when we're done, I'll open the door, and I will hear from her pretty quickly that time for more food. Nicole Pytel  07:21 She's got you well trained. Very good. Have you well Michael Hingson  07:24 trained? Yeah. Now Alamo, Alamo, my guide dog, is a clock watcher, so he's going to get his his afternoon treat a half hour late, and and he's pretty quiet about that sort of stuff. He's pretty pretty nonplussed about it. He won't come over and bug me, even though he's here in the room during the podcast because he knows what's going on, but by the same token, as soon as we're done, he's going to be out there going, "It's after 130, Buster. Nicole Pytel  07:51 I hear you. Minnie, Minnie and Megs will be the same way. Don't you worry; it'll be time for their dinner when we're done here. So, yeah, they'll they'll be ready. Michael Hingson  08:00 Yeah, well, and Stitch also gets some treats in the evening. She gets them around 630 at night, but at five she starts demanding them, and she doesn't want to eat anything that's left over in her food bowl. She wants her treats, and she knows she's not going to get them until after 630, but she pushes anyway. Ah, it's fun. I wouldn't have it any other way, though. Nicole Pytel  08:23 No, absolutely not. They are just little rays of sunshine. Michael Hingson  08:27 They are. So you went to college, I gather. Nicole Pytel  08:30 I did. I went to the University of Miami. Both my parents did as well. Dad actually played football there back in the day. Yeah, actually, I mean, honestly, growing up, I pretty much lived at the Orange Bowl on Saturdays. We had season tickets to the Hurricanes, and you know, learned about football very, very early on. I was actually, I think I was like five, and I was sitting there on a Saturday playing with my Barbies, and Dad came in and was like, "All right, come on, put the Barbie dolls down. We're gonna go watch football. You're gonna learn about football, and I was I was hooked ever ever since. So you know, who needs copies? Michael Hingson  09:10 I got hooked more on on baseball. Of course, I still am of the opinion that for the longest time, we had the best announcers in baseball here in California. We had Vince Scully, we had Dick Enberg, and so many people. And I learned baseball from Vin Scully. I learned all about the rules and so on, because he could announce the game, and he could include stories, but never missed announcing what was going on on the field. So you you got both, and I don't think there are many announcers today who can do that. And they've got buddies, and they they kind of talk together, but they're yammering a lot and not announcing the game, which is all the more no fun. So yeah, what do you do? Nicole Pytel  09:54 Yeah, there's something special about those guys that can just do it solo for nine innings, especially with all the break. In between pitches and things like that, I mean that's it's a lot of air to fill. So yeah, I mean Vince Gully. There's there's nobody better to learn from. Michael Hingson  10:09 No, nobody better than Vinny ever ever in baseball. And and as I said, Dick Enberg was out here, and and then in basketball we had Chick Hearn who could talk faster than anybody in the world, which was pretty cool, and there were some other announcers. They weren't necessarily just announcers like Vinny. I mean, Harry Carey, who did the Cubs, and but he was well loved and had a great personality, and it was a lot of fun. But Vinny was definitely the best, and then Dick Enberg, who also did football, and I learned a lot about football from from him, which was kind of fun. But I've always been a baseball fan. Nicole Pytel  10:46 Same, I love baseball as well. There's just something so quintessentially like wholesome and American about baseball. It's just like the hot dog, and you know, there's just something about baseball where you just feel like just a pure good old fashioned American kind of thing, you know. It's just got this feeling Michael Hingson  11:08 to it. Yeah. Well, so you went and got. Did you do advanced degrees or just a bachelor's? Nicole Pytel  11:14 I did my bachelor's. Yeah. I I went into broadcasting. Actually, majored in in broadcast journalism and psychology. Ah, wow, that's a Michael Hingson  11:23 combination. Nicole Pytel  11:24 It is, you know, I the psychology part. You know, I've always been fascinated of like why people do what they do, and I wanted to be a sports journalist. You know, ever since I can remember, and I was like, well, what a great way to really understand people if you're going to interview them and talk to them all the time, and and tell them stories, you know, through the TV. Like, what a great way to understand them. Take take psychology, learn all about that. And and now that I'm in marketing, it's it's the same thing. Trying to figure out, you know, why'd they click on that ad and not this one? Why'd they open this email and not that one? Why'd they, you know, read this case study and not that one. So it's it that that major was kind of the gift that keeps on giving. Michael Hingson  12:07 Now you, so you got your bachelor's and then you went into broadcast journalism. Nicole Pytel  12:13 I did. I did. I I took off to College Station, Texas, to be a great reporter. Yeah, really no better place. I mean, you know, you start in broadcasting, and you're going to start in a small market. And there's all kinds of cities in in the country that I'm sure are lovely, but you've never heard of them before. Your God only knows what you're going to cover. But I was very, very blessed. I got to go to College Station, Texas, so that is the home of Texas A and M, and of course Friday Night Football, the local high schools. You know that the that was my job to cover that stuff. So you can't really ask for anything better than that for a first job out of school. Michael Hingson  12:55 So did you did you announce the games or what did you do? Nicole Pytel  12:58 I didn't. I was a I was a sports reporter for one of the local affiliates in town. So, and I was a one-man band. So I shot everything, edited everything, reported everything. I did, I did all the things, all the things. No photog following me around. No, no, nothing. It was all me. So I was the one, you know, on the sidelines shooting the games or standing behind home plate, and you know it was it was fun. It was it was definitely an adventure. We could probably do an entire podcast just on crazy stories about that. Well, Michael Hingson  13:29 how long ago was that? Nicole Pytel  13:30 Oh gosh, more years ago than I I'd like to think. My goodness, I went out there in 2006. So Michael Hingson  13:39 digital cameras had started to come into play. Nicole Pytel  13:44 Yeah, sort of. Although when you're working in a small market, they don't have the newest equipment, so the cameras were still big and heavy. You had this big bag of stuff to lug around. You had the big heavy tripod. You know, you're kind of going like carrying your weight in stuff. Yeah, you know, and and I'm doing it, you know, depending on where I'm going, you know, in in like dress clothes and and heels and and trying not to fall over, you know. So, but um, yeah, no, it's that was still the big and bulky stuff back then. Michael Hingson  14:14 Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm not surprised, and at the same time, you did it. What's what's the most memorable, if you have one, memorable event or thing that you can think of that you did while you were out there in Texas doing football and baseball and all that? Nicole Pytel  14:30 Oh man, there's there's so many, there's so many. But I think one of the coolest things I got to do was, you know, Kyle Field, which is Texas A&M's home stadium. It is it is enormous. It seats you know 100,000 plus people, and you know being there on a Saturday is is unreal. It's loud. Those are probably some of the most devoted fans on the planet. They never sit down. They they. Practice all their cheers the night before. I mean, it's just wild. But you know, I used to do obviously during the season. I'd go to the weekly press conferences during the week, and I'd I'd do stories. And you know, I never. I don't know if I ever told anybody this publicly, but they used to leave a chain link gate open at Kyle Field on Tuesday afternoons. It was just unlocked, and so I would I would go in there, and the stadium would be totally empty except for me, not a soul. And I'd go in there, and I was you know shooting my own stuff. So I had it all figured out where exactly where I had to put the camera and exactly how I had the angle of the tripod and exactly where I had to stand, so that I could get there. Home of the 12th man sign like right over my shoulder, the perfect shot for you know my stand up and my story. And so every every Tuesday I'd go in there. I'd kind of sneak in. I don't know to this day if they ever knew I was in there, but but being in there, you know, on the 50-yard line of this enormous stadium, all by yourself-it's totally silent. You know what it's like at at peak velocity volume, and being in there all by yourself, you're just like, this is the coolest thing I know ever. Like this is amazing. It's wild. It's just wild. Michael Hingson  16:19 Well, I won't tell anyone. I mean, it's sort of like Vin Scully, who always said, "This is between me and you, nobody else. Nicole Pytel  16:24 Exactly, exactly. Michael Hingson  16:26 Nobody will hear it. It's okay. That's that's cool. The only thing I would say about that is, and I experience this. If you talk about crazy fans, Kentucky and football is just as challenging, I went to do a speech somewhere, and the speech was on Monday night. It was the NCAA championship in football, and the and the Kentucky Wildcats were one of the teams. And I was told that my speech had to end at 630. It could not go any later because if it went later, I'd be speaking to an empty gym. Nicole Pytel  17:04 Yes, you would absolutely no pressure, no pressure. No, no Michael Hingson  17:07 pressure at all. Well, I kept an eye on the time and and ended it right at 630, and by 631, the place was empty. It was crazy. Nicole Pytel  17:14 Cleared out, cleared out. Well, hey, that speaks well for you that they were all there before the game. They weren't tailgating or anything, you you were bigger than the tailgate. Michael Hingson  17:22 I guess so, but it was it was fun, and and then you've got North Carolina for basketball, so oh yeah, it's again it's it's pretty amazing. Well, how long did you do your your stint dealing with sports and and being in the news media? Nicole Pytel  17:41 Yeah, so I was a sports reporter for two years, and then my contract was up in the summer of 2008 when the the economy was not so great. Yeah, and I I didn't want to stay in my job not because I didn't love it. I just wasn't really making any money. You don't make any money in TV. That's the big secret. It looks so glamorous, and and you're broke. But it was so it was basically impossible to get another sports job at at that time, you know. And I got a really good opportunity at the station I was at. They were like, you know what? Like everybody in town knows you. They see you on the sidelines. They see you behind home plate. Like they see you at all the things. And so why don't you be the main news anchor? Because they were rebranding the station, and I said, you know what? Okay, cool. I'll do that. You know that that'll be something new and different. And you know it kind of hurt to leave sports, but it was a challenge. You know to be the main anchor and the producer. So it was it was my show to run. So I did that for two years as well. No pressure, no pressure at all. No, it's fine. Michael Hingson  18:51 Yeah, Nicole Pytel  18:51 pressure. Michael Hingson  18:53 So you did that for two years, and then, Nicole Pytel  18:56 and then I left, and I totally did something different. I left TV and I started my own content marketing agency. Just me, myself, and I, and my little my little built-in desk in my kitchen in my apartment. So couldn't be more different. Michael Hingson  19:12 Did you do now? Was that in Texas? It Nicole Pytel  19:15 was in Texas. It was you know it was it was you know time to leave TV, and it was just like, okay, well, what am I good at? Like, what can I do? And I said, well, shoot, I can write anything, you know. So I'll do content marketing, and and there's so many journalists that go into PR. That's kind of like the the thing they all do. And I was like, I don't want to do that. Like, I don't know. It's just like being on the journalism side, you know, all the PR people. It's like, oh, come on, guys, stop! So I went into content marketing, started my own agency, just just me, myself, and I. And you know, was it was scary, but it was fun. It was you know throwing yourself into the deep end of the pool and and seeing if you could swim. If Speaker 1  20:02 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  20:35 So now, tell me something about what content marketing Nicole Pytel  20:40 is. Yeah, so you know content marketing, and and I I've always been on on the B 2b side, the business to business. So and usually, and most of my career has been in in tech. So you know, selling very expensive things to people who are very skeptical of whether or not it works and don't want to make the wrong decision on you know a six figure platform or something like that, and it's really the content marketer's job to really kind of give them almost like a buffet of things that that they need to really figure out. Okay, what problem do I have? What solutions are there for this problem? Like, who are the different vendors? What what are the different ways to solve this problem? What makes all these vendors different? How do I know which vendor you know will actually give me ROI? Like, do they understand my business? Do they understand people like me, and then you know, getting them all the way through until they're ready for a sales conversation. And as you might imagine, people don't like to talk to salespeople. They're you know at this point probably probably 80% of the way through. You know they they probably are pretty set on on which vendor they're going to go with before they talk to sales, but you know there's all kinds of different marketing. But content's the one that really runs the whole gamut of everything. You know, you everything ties back to content because you've got to bring them to something. Like you know, ads have got to drive to something. The website's got to say something. You know, like PR has got to plug something. So, you know, content's kind of that that through line for the entire process of them making these, you know, huge expensive decisions. Michael Hingson  22:33 Well, still going into content marketing, since you were in TV, is a pretty major, pretty major switch all the way around. And what makes me curious is how did you discover you really knew and understood content marketing? And more important, even than I guess, would be since you loved TV so much, when did you decide that it was worth staying in TV than it was to switch careers? That had to be a pretty scary thing, or maybe it wasn't. You may be just used to doing that sort of thing. Nicole Pytel  23:05 Yeah, no. Leaving TV, there was a there was a day, you know, when I knew I was done with TV, and and I was kind of frustrated with it. You know, you're not making much money, and and at that time it was so tough. The economy was was still tough, even even a couple years after that, and and it was just was tough. And news is a totally different kettle of fish than sports. Sports is is fun, and the fun stories and the feature stories and news is just it can be depressing. It can you know, it like you know. If it bleeds, it leads. That's you know where we're at, and that just started to get to me. And there, there was one day where things were just really, really slow, and and I was just like, oh my god, we don't have a lead story, and time is a ticking, and 10 o'clock is coming, whether I'm ready or not, and it's not like you can get on TV and go. Well, hey, good evening. Nothing happened today. Shut off your TV and go to sleep. And that's a story. That's a story in and of itself. Nothing happened, and I was really struggling. Like, oh my God, what's the lead story? What's the lead story? Am I going to have to take something and just kind of you know make make chicken salad out of chicken you know what and try to pass this off as important, and then we heard over the scanner there had been this this fatal car accident and this teenage girl had died in a car accident you know and for a split second I thought, "Oh, thank God, I have a lead story. And then, in the next second, I went, "Oh my God! Like, how is that your reaction to this story? Like, this girl is gone; her family is destroyed forever. Like, how did your brain even get to oh my god?" Thank God, I have a lead story, and and it was then that I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. You know, I was one foot out the door, and then I was like, uh, I don't like this. And to this day, I don't remember the girl's name. I don't remember any of the details, but I still think about it because it was really this turning point of like, I just don't want to do this anymore. Like I want to go do something else. That you know, maybe if I had stayed in sports, it would have been totally different. But the news side is just-it's tough. It's tough to see all that bad stuff day after day after day and kind of capitalize on it. Yeah, Michael Hingson  25:34 I-I'm amazed at some of the reporters that that I watch and and just listen to how they report the news, and now there's always it seems in our country a lead story of some sort. But how they do it and how they're able to do it day after day without registering too much emotion is pretty amazing. And I and I hope that their characters just don't become so hardened that they don't feel sympathy, and I and I think they don't. The reporters that I tend to watch, I think, are very human oriented, but and and they they behave appropriately, but at the same time, I'm amazed that they're able to do what they do, and it's got to be so tough. Nicole Pytel  26:24 It is tough. It is tough because sadly, you're kind of seeing the worst of the worst. I mean, you know, that's that's the stuff that that makes the news. And and today, you know, I don't watch local news really at all anymore. But it seems like now it's just kind of the police blotter, and it's like when I hear about all these bad things, you know. It's just, you know, the the storytelling has has kind of fallen out of it quite a bit. Michael Hingson  26:49 I collect old radio shows as a hobby, and I'm very fascinated to listen to the all the old news broadcasts from the 20s, well, the 30s, 40s, and into the 50s mainly. And I've heard some interviews with people who did news back in those days, and and who are somewhat still well, they're still alive or they used to be, and they talk about how news broadcasting has changed over the years, and they don't they don't do the same kind of news that they they used to do where they would report on things. Now they've got different people sort of chattering back and forth, and and they're they sometimes make light of stories and they just do a lot of different things, but they're not reporting the news the way the old reporters used to do. Nicole Pytel  27:36 Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, back in the day, you had you know Walter Cronkite kind of ripping the paper off, you know, or you know they're sitting there smoking a cigarette, giving the news. I mean, you know, stuff like that, and you know, yeah, it's just it's totally different. I think it's become so sensationalized, and everybody's obsessed with being first. I think, I mean, you always want to be first, but I I think people are obsessed with being first, even if they don't always get it right. Yeah, and that's Michael Hingson  28:08 happened a lot. It Nicole Pytel  28:09 happens a lot, and and also it's like who can be the most sensational, who can make the biggest splash, and you know it just I don't know. It's it has it's changed so much. Yeah. Michael Hingson  28:25 Well, so now, but but again, well, not now. But then you went into contact mark content marketing. Do you feel that you knew that business as you were going into it, or or did you have a lot to learn? And how did you do it? Because for a while, it was just you doing everything? Nicole Pytel  28:41 Yeah, it was it was me doing literally everything. And did I know about content marketing? No, I didn't. I knew how to write, so I knew I could do copywriting. And I said, okay, well, I'll I'll figure out the marketing part. And it took a lot of courses. I learned about SEO. I learned about email marketing. I learned about inbound marketing. You know, I just took every course that I could and kind of just built the plane as I flew it. And you know, because yeah, when you start your own business and you're all by yourself, there's no there's no senior person to go ask. You're the person, and you've got to figure it out, and you know, I like to say the money train doesn't doesn't just magically show up every two weeks. You know, you've got to you've got to work and you've got to earn it. And so, when you've got your own business, you know, that's just it's a lot of pressure. And so, yeah, I just I just went and and learned as I went and learned a lot quickly. And you know, would would I tell everybody to go do that? No, but for me it was like, well, if I can do that, I can I can probably do anything. I mean, shoot, I kept a a roof over my head and food food on the table for for eight years with my. Business, so that's that's something that a lot of people can't say. Michael Hingson  30:03 Did you make any kind of mistake at the beginning, or as you were starting and running this business, that you're very grateful today that you made? Nicole Pytel  30:11 Oh, I I made plenty of mistakes. Oh my goodness! And of course, you're going to make mistakes. You're you're just learning. You're just drinking from the fire hose and just hanging onto the bowl, you know, and I think there was a there was a couple of mistakes I made. I think probably the biggest was not shutting off, you know. And I had come from news where at 10 o'clock the news started, at 1030 the show was over. You were done for the day. Nothing carried over to the next day. You came into work the next day. You started over, and it was really hard to have work that dragged on for days or weeks at a time. And you know, it was hard to shut off, especially when it's your own business. It's like, oh, let me just reply to this one email, or let me check this one thing, or let me go do this one thing over here. And and when I started my own business, you know, I was working, I was working out of the kitchen. So you know, you go to sit down and relax on the couch at night, and and your computer's you know four feet away in the kitchen. So oh, I'll I'll just go check this one thing, and I never was shutting off, and you burn out that way. You really, you really do. And I'm glad I learned that lesson. And I'm not saying I've never repeated that lesson because I've definitely, you know, it's it's a very acquired skill to be able to just turn your brain off and and go focus on something else. But I'm glad I made that mistake because it really showed me, like, you don't have to be on 24/7 even to run your own business, you know, like, and you have to stop. And so, what I've done ever since then, ever since I was able to afford, you know, a two-bedroom apartment or whatever, even my house now. I've always had an office so that you know I go, I do my work, and then at the end of the day, I shut off the computer and I leave that room, and I don't come back until the next day. Where it's like you know, like if you go to a traditional office, you get up at 5o'clock, you walk out, you're back at 9o'clock the next morning, like I've worked really hard to do that at home to really avoid that whole always on kind of mentality because you've just got to kind of stop, you know. Michael Hingson  32:34 Yeah, I my wife passed away in November of 2022, and she was more of a late riser, and I was more of a morning person, but we compromise pretty well. But since she has passed, I tend to get up pretty early because I can eat breakfast and then come in and spend time before anything else happens, going through emails and doing some things. But I don't have to rush doing it, and that helps. But then, then then the the other things happen in the course of the day. But I I know what you're saying, and I work pretty hard at shutting things down by around 5o'clock. Of course, I also have to do that because I have two creatures who say it's five here, not somewhere else, and we better get our food. Yeah. Yep. So they help, but I hear what you're saying, and it and it is a it is a discipline. Working at home and working for yourself is a is a discipline that a lot of people Nicole Pytel  33:33 oh yeah Michael Hingson  33:34 could learn and don't or just don't have the skills to do. But it is, I think, a very doable thing, and I enjoy it. And I usually have I usually have television as well. I have television or something on in the background, although I don't listen to much of it. It's just background noise, but it's there and it helps. Nicole Pytel  33:53 Yeah, yeah. There's something about silence. I've always got to have you know some music on or something. It's like the silence gets a little deafening when you're at home working, it's it's it's funny that way. Michael Hingson  34:03 I do some stuff on the weekends, and when I when I do catching up on letters and things like that on the weekends, I typically don't turn anything on. I just focus and get it done, and then I go off and read and do other things. So it works out. But I but I hear what you're saying, and I think it's an important lesson to learn that you've got to learn. You've got to find a way to recognize that that it is important to turn off. And if you don't, you're going to drive yourself crazy. Nicole Pytel  34:30 You will. And and you know now that we've got you know email on our phones and Slack on our phones and LinkedIn on our phones, it's really easy to sit on the couch at night after dinner and just let me check my email this one more time, or or let me reply to this Slack message, and you just gotta stop because you will burn out, and and then you know you're you're of no use to anybody, most of all yourself, you know. And I think that Michael Hingson  34:57 oh, go ahead. Nicole Pytel  34:58 I was just gonna say I think it. I think it's a lesson that a lot of people struggle with, you know, because everything is just this on-demand one tap of your phone. You can just be back at work 24 hours a day, and I think you have to learn that I don't have to be on 24-seven to be successful. Think that's the thing you've got to learn. Michael Hingson  35:20 Do you think you've experienced burnout along the way? Nicole Pytel  35:23 Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, I, I, you know, one of my bad habits is, you know, I'll kind of like put myself last, and I've learned that, you know, oh, it's really easy to, you know, oh, I won't go for a run this morning because I've got you know this work thing that I've got to do, and you know you've got to kind of treat yourself as a non-negotiable as well. You know, not that you get to do the run every morning. There's some mornings when you really can't, but if you look at the run as you know something of that's you taking care of yourself, and something that that is pretty non-negotiable, and it needs to be part of the schedule. You're you're more likely to to stick with it and not push it off to the side. Because yeah, I'm guilty of that. You know, you you push things off to the side. You're eating at your desk. You're passing up on this, or oh, I'm not going to go out to dinner tonight because I'm going to sit here and catch up on stuff, and and you burn out, you know, and it's exhausting. Michael Hingson  36:28 Yeah, yeah, you gotta gotta learn to keep things in perspective, and you're right. Yeah, yourself is is an important part of of what you do, and you have to be able to take care of yourself along the way as well, Speaker 1  36:42 yeah. Michael Hingson  36:42 Well, you had your own company for almost 10 years, and then you decided to go back to work for someone else. What what caused that to happen? Nicole Pytel  36:50 Yeah, so it was a couple of things. You know, one was you know when you own your own business, and and Michael, you understand this. You're you're the everything. You're you're the you're the president. You're the head of marketing. You're the head of sales. You're the head of operations. You're doing the taxes. You're you're doing all the things, and you're not necessarily good at all the things, and you don't necessarily enjoy all the things. You know, and so there was kind of two reasons. So I wanted to really focus on what I was good at, which was the content marketing part. You know, I didn't want to have to fill out quarterly reports for the state or you know things like that. All the admin work that goes in into running your own business, and so I said, okay, I want to be able to do what I do best, and I want to be able to work with clients that are bigger than I can get myself. And so I was really, really lucky to land at an agency. I worked remotely, but the agency was was based in Silicon Valley, and you know our our biggest client was Google, and you know for clients it doesn't get any bigger than that so you know I got to just focus on the content marketing part and work with with companies and and people that I never would have been exposed to if I had stuck with my own business you know no matter what I was never going to break into Silicon Valley from from my apartment in Florida, so you know it was the right decision. It really was, and and in job interviews, people asked me, "Well, you're giving up being your own boss? And it's like I've got very specific reasons for doing that. It was just time, you know. Michael Hingson  38:35 Do you feel like in any way it was a step backwards going to work for somebody rather than being the boss? Nicole Pytel  38:42 No, I don't think so. You know, because I've that eight years that I had in my own business, I got I I've got that under my belt, and you know, no one can take that experience away. You know, it is it is what it is. I learned a lot of lessons. I learned a lot of lessons the hard way too, and it was a great springboard. But I like being able to focus on what I'm best at, and you know the stuff that I've been able to do since then. I wouldn't have had those opportunities if I had just kind of kept with my own business. So I didn't see it as a step back at all because I had very specific reasons for making the move. Michael Hingson  39:20 Yeah, and you know I respect that, and and went through the same sort of thing. I owned my own company for four years back in the mid 1980s because I wasn't able to find a job at the time. People just wouldn't hire blind people, so I started my own company, and then eventually decided to go back into the workforce. And my wife and I worked out a a plan for that, and I created a cover letter that actually impressed some people, and I got a job out of it. But by the same token, I wasn't at all regretful about having to stop doing what I was doing and go back to work for someone else, partly because some of those very pressures that. We're talking about went away, and partly because, as you said, it was time, and I knew it, so we did. Nicole Pytel  40:07 Yeah, yeah. You've got to you've got to go with your gut and stuff like that. You know, like if if your gut is telling you something, or if you're like, I think I'd be a little bit happier doing something else, or if I didn't have to do this part of it, you know, go for Michael Hingson  40:24 it. Well, so there were times that, as you describe it, you would go into a role with no map. You were the only and the first content marketing hire, and you did a lot of stuff with Google Cloud marketing and and so on. What's the difference? I guess the best way to put it. What's the difference between, well, yeah, what's the difference between confidence and just hiding fear? That's probably the good basic question. Nicole Pytel  40:51 Yeah, yeah, they're probably kind of on the same plane, but they project Michael Hingson  41:00 differently. Nicole Pytel  41:01 They project very differently. They they project very differently. So so yes, you know, I created my own business, and then two of the agencies I've worked at, I was the first you know full time content hire. Built the content marketing practice. It was like building a business within a business, and and all the things that go along with that, I just didn't have to do the taxes, and which is a good thing. Yeah, it's a great thing. And then at the same time, yeah, I was I was embedded with with Google Cloud's marketing organization, and and so I think confidence is you know you can do it. Like deep down, you're like I know my stuff, I can do the work, I can do this, and then of course there's the fear of, oh my god! Like Google, like I'm gonna have a Google email address. I'm gonna have you know a title at Google and a supervisor at Google. Like, oh my god! Like, and then of course you know the the fear comes in. The imposter syndrome kind of comes in. Like me, me, really? And I think it's kind of like jumping into a really cold pool. You're scared, but you just gotta do it and kind of not fake it till you make it, but just dive in and trust in the confidence side. You know, there's like it's like the devil and the angel on your shoulder. One is your confidence. That's the angel, and the devil is the fear. And just listen to that confident part, and eventually, I feel like the fear gets drowned out. Now, does the imposter system ever imposter syndrome ever totally go away? Of course not. Of course not. We all have days where you're like, why am I here? Why is anybody listening to me? Why does anybody think I'm smart? We all have those days, but you know, eventually, you know, if you've got that confidence in yourself, it will win out. Michael Hingson  42:52 Yeah, and and it is something that we all have to deal with. But I think we can. I think if we truly understand ourselves and we listen to our inner voice. We'll get the guidance and the confidence that we need. I think so many people tend not to be introspective and tend not to go back and listen to the lessons that they could learn from their own inner subconscious, their own inner voice. And the result of that is that they they end up being very clueless, but the fact of the matter is, there's a part of you that monitors every single solitary thing that you do, and it's ready to give you the information that you need if you'll but take the time to learn to listen to it. And most people just don't do that. But the fact is, we should take that time because we'll get better results than we would ever get any other way. Nicole Pytel  43:45 It's funny because we'll say things to ourselves that we would never say to somebody else. Like you'd never say it to a friend, but you say it to yourself. It's like, why do we do that? And you know, sometimes I think one of the most important questions I've ever asked myself is why not you? You know, you want to go be a sports journalist in Texas? Why not you? Why can't you do that? You want to own your own business? Why not you? People do that all the time. Why? Why can't you do it? And I think if you if you're really honest with yourself, and you say, "Well, why not you? And you force yourself to kind of have this conversation with yourself and give an answer. A lot of times, you can't think of Michael Hingson  44:33 one, and you create excuses. Nicole Pytel  44:37 You do, which Michael Hingson  44:38 really are are not helping, and they're not healthy, but you do it anyway. And I understand the concept of imposter syndrome, but you ultimately have control over that. Nicole Pytel  44:50 You do, and I think that's the thing. It's you know I think anxiety gets the best of us a lot of the time, and and you've got to be like, okay, well, what can I control? What is totally out of my control? I actually heard somebody say today, you know, when anxiety creeps in and you have a thought, "Oh my God, what if X Y Z happens? You say to yourself, "So what if it does? Like, so what? Like, can you control it? Can you fix it? And if not, then then you shouldn't just give it airtime in your brain, you know. We Michael Hingson  45:23 spend so much time worrying about everything over which we don't have control, and we don't really learn the about the things over which we truly have control and should focus our time on, which is which is such an issue because the reality is over 95% of the things that we worry about and what if about all the time are things over which we have no control. I hear a lot of people say I don't watch the news because I just get angry at all that. Well, I like to watch the news because I love information, but I can do that generally without getting angry. Now, sometimes I will, I will yell at somebody on the the TV because they say dumb things. There are people who have learned how to do that, but I also don't spend a lot of time at it, and I also know that I'm not going to hurt them, even if they hear me. So the Michael Hingson  46:16 the bottom line is that I I work at not doing that, but I still want to get the information as to what's going on, so I do. Nicole Pytel  46:24 Yeah, and that's you. I want to know, and what can I control my reaction to it? I'm not going to get angry unless somebody says something really, really stupid, and and then you know it comes out. But yeah, it's it. That's a great example. I want to know what's happening, and I'm going to control my reaction to it, and a lot of times that's all we can control is our reaction to things. Michael Hingson  46:45 But we don't, which is really and we don't. We don't, and we should. Nicole Pytel  46:49 Yep. Michael Hingson  46:50 Well, speaking of reactions, earlier this year you got laid off from your VP role. I'm I'm curious, what did that do to how you see your own professional identity and and and so on, or did you know it was coming, or anything like that? Nicole Pytel  47:05 There, there were some rumblings right before it happened that it was coming, and you know I'm one of sadly very very many people, you know, 1000s, 10s of 1000s, maybe even hundreds of 1000s of people in this position, and and it's it's tough because you're not your job, but when you do something 40 hours a week and and you get up every day and that's what you do, it becomes part of who you are. It's like that's what I do, and then when that's gone, it's just like, well, now like am I still am I still useful? Like, am I still smart? You know, and and all these things go go through your mind, and you learn a lot about yourself when that happens. You know, talking about hey, all I can control is how I react to it. You know, Lord knows. You know, when you get laid off, like there's a a million what ifs running through your brain, and and all you can do is just keep putting one foot in front of the other, and and controlling how you react to it. But it absolutely, you know, it definitely shakes your confidence, and you know, it's it's it's a very weird feeling, you know that first Monday when you don't go to work. It's like, oh my God, the rest of the world went back to work, and and I didn't, and it's very jarring. You know, especially when you're when you're as old a fossil as me and you've been working for so long, it's like now you're not. You know, I've been I've been very very lucky to take on you know some freelance work and stuff like that, and and you know it's given me an opportunity to really catch up on a lot of the things that I wanted to learn and try and do when I was working full time and didn't really have the time. So from that perspective, it's been really good. But it it it'll knock you down for a minute, and it's up to you to kind of pick yourself back up, and that's where you kind of learn a lot about yourself as to how how you react to that. Michael Hingson  49:08 Yeah, and you have to again. It's a matter of choice, and you have to decide what what you want to do. Well, so you got laid off. Did you sleep late that first Monday? Nicole Pytel  49:19 I didn't. You know what I did. You know what I did. I I knew I had to give myself something to do, so I got up early on that first Monday and I went and got the oil changed in my car. I was like, I'm gonna go out and be productive. You know, could I have laid in bed all day and just kind of wallowed in self. Yeah, that doesn't help. Yeah, but that's not helpful. So I was like, "I'm going to go get that oil change I've been putting off for like two months. And you got to go Michael Hingson  49:49 in earlier than you otherwise would have, and probably got it done sooner. Nicole Pytel  49:53 There you go. There you go. Sometimes it just works out. Michael Hingson  49:57 And you probably had two little fur creatures who. We're very glad to see you continuing to support their habits. Nicole Pytel  50:04 Yes, yes, they my little fur divas. Yes, they're kind of like you know now you know Minnie Minnie's worked with me her whole life. She just turned 14. I've had her since she was 11 months old, and and I've I've worked at home her whole life, and so she she comes to the office with me every single day with her little memory foam, and and and and she gets her decompression time too. You know, she knows at 5o'clock when I take her memory foam bed back into the bedroom. Like, all right, I'm done working for the day. I'm good. But you know, at first she was like, "Why aren't we working, mom? And then you know, we got some freelance work and got back in the office, and I could tell she was like, "Okay, we're getting back to normal. Because at first they were both like, "What are we doing? Aren't you supposed to be working? Like, what's happening? But as long as they've got all their treats and all their toys and and and you know all their things, they're good. Michael Hingson  50:58 Didn't you tell them that was time for them to go get a job? Nicole Pytel  51:01 Oh yeah, absolutely. Michael Hingson  51:03 And how'd that work for you? Absolutely. Nicole Pytel  51:04 No, it didn't work out. They were like, "We don't do that. Like, I don't think you understand, Mom. Yeah, this is not how this works. Yeah, Michael Hingson  51:11 yeah. Well, so one of the things I think that's interesting, we're and we're all facing it to one degree or another, is the whole concept of of AI, a lot of people are afraid that AI is coming for their jobs, and I can make some comments, and I will about that. But you've chosen to face that fear and confront it. So I guess the real question is, why do you think that was the right call, and what do you think about this whole business of AI? Nicole Pytel  51:39 AI is really something, and so so I I've seen both sides of it. As a content marketer, you know we were supposed to become extinct because AI could just write everything. And my point is, is like, can AI create content? Sure, but it doesn't know what to create, and that's where the human comes in. It like the human has to come up with the strategy, and you know I remember the first time trying out ChatGPT and having it write stuff, and it wasn't very good, and and you know obviously things have gotten much much better in in the past 334 years, but you know it just became obvious that that this is a thing, and I guess you know, as a benefit, so many of of my clients were AI companies in some way, shape, or form, and it's like this is happening, and you have got to learn how to deal with it. And at least in my job, it can it can make me better at my job because it can speed things up. It can kind of eliminate some redundancies, you know. And is it ever going to replace me? No, because I'm the human with the judgment, and I understand, you know, the business goals of of what we're trying to do and how we hit the revenue goals and who the audience is and what they care about and all of those things, but I think one of the the silver linings of of getting laid off was you know I've I've had a you know a chunk of time to really dive in and get my hands dirty with AI like the things that I was like, oh, if I could have it do this, this, and this, that'd be really cool. And then go in and build it and see, hey, can I actually build this and go into Claude Code and see if if I really can do that, you know? And and it's given me a chance to really do that and go, okay, well, when I when I get another job, this is how I'm going to use AI on day one. I'm going to create, you know, this list of things, and here's why. Here's the order I'm going to do them in, and here's where I'm going to use AI to make it better. But more importantly, here's kind of the framework for how humans and AI should work together in content marketing, because there's so many people out there that are like, "Hey, ChatGPT, go write my website for me, and then they wonder why it's not very good or or why it sounds the same as as their competitors. You know, there's studies out there that say you know buyers think that these companies all sound the same, and you know AI is a big reason for that. So if you can really figure out how humans and AI work together, I think that's that's the piece, you know. And and there at the beginning there were a lot of content marketing kind of purists out there that were like, I will never use this. I'm gonna write everything myself. I'm gonna do everything from scratch, and I was just like, "That's like saying, you know, when cars came out, like I'm not, I'm not riding a horse. I'm not getting a car. I'm taking my horse and buggy to work. You know, I mean, it's the same thing. Like things evolve, and and you know, take advantage of it. Michael Hingson  54:56 Well, the reality is that AI is here. And I think you're right. What we need to do is to learn how to use it. I heard a friend comment a couple months ago that was talking to his boss about AI, and his boss said, "I will never fire you and replace you with AI. I won't do that, he said. "I might fire you if you don't learn how to use AI. Nicole Pytel  55:26 Yes, and Michael Hingson  55:26 I think that's absolutely true. I I use AI when I write because it gives me ideas, but ultimately I have to still be the one to create them, and I am not convinced that we're going to see AI in anywhere in the near future, develop the true human spirit and learn how to do the things that we do, Nicole Pytel  55:48 right? Michael Hingson  55:50 And so I think it's important that we learn how to use AI, and we I get a lot of great ideas from it, and so I go into what I write, and that's great because it's got a lot more information and experience than I do. So I don't mind doing that, and I'll be glad to take the ideas. The first time I heard anybody talking about AI was in a Christmas party with relatives, and somebody was complaining because teachers were grousing about the fact that kids were just letting AI write their papers, Nicole Pytel  56:22 yeah. Michael Hingson  56:22 And I said, why not let AI write the papers? You're missing a golden opportunity, and the golden opportunity. And I've said this before on Unstoppable Mindset, but the golden opportunity is the teacher should let students, if they want to use AI to write their papers, let them use AI to write their papers. But then, after you collect the papers, take a period, call each student to the front of the class, and say, "Now defend your position. You're going to find out who really knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. Nicole Pytel  56:50 Yep. Michael Hingson  56:51 What a great opportunity! Nicole Pytel  56:53 That's one way to do it for sure. And my guess is most of them would have no idea. Yeah. Michael Hingson  57:00 How was your view of a special of a professional career change since you started years ago, or has it? Nicole Pytel  57:08 Yeah, many, many, many moons ago. Many Michael Hingson  57:11 moons. Nicole Pytel  57:12 You know, I think when when you first start out in your career, and tell me, Michael, if you agree with this, you know, you just want to get going. It's like I'm a grown up now. I get to do all these grown up things and all the things that I learned about in school. I'm gonna run off and do them, and I want to do as much as I can, as fast as I can, and and climb the ladder and do all the things. And then, you know, that's still important, obviously. But I think it's more about, you know, am I doing something that I take? I truly, truly take pride in something that I believe in. You know, like you know, I could never go work for a company and and do marketing if if I thought the product was boring. You know, I just couldn't. I I don't really care what title you give me, or you know how much money you want to pay me. It's like if it's going to be boring, I don't, I don't want to do it. So I think part of it is, you know, are are you getting satisfaction out of what you're doing? Michael Hingson  58:13 Also, we need to recognize and understand that sometimes life gets in the way, and you start out with a great plan. This is what I'm going to do, and something happens to change it. And the reality is, again, it's of course how you approach that change. But that change might very well be for the best. I know that's happened to me several times, and I have learned that life may happen, things may happen, but I'm gonna not. I don't. I didn't have control over the change necessarily happening. So it's a question more about how I decide to deal with it and what I'm going to do. And I think that's what's really so important to be able to do. And so I find that it's so important to let life do what life is going to do, and you evaluate which way you want to go, but truly evaluate it. Don't don't just react. Sit back and think. You may decide to keep on doing what you're doing, and you're given another opportunity. And of course, for me, the most dramatic example of that is after September 11th, people started calling and saying, "Gee, would you come and talk to us and tell us what we ought to know about September 11th and talk to us about leadership and so on. We saw your name in the media and we want to hear from you and we'll pay you. And of course, you'll pay me. That was a great start. But but what happened was that so many of those happened that my wife and I at the by the beginning of 2002 realized that this was an incredible opportunity. It would take work, but it was an incredible opportunity, and that in reality, as I tell people, selling life and philosophy is a whole lot more rewarding than being a computer hardware sales manager and selling computer hardware. And so I've been doing it ever since, and I've had so many wonderful advances. And I've I've met so many people, learned so many things, and I spend the time working on learning wherever I go and wherever I speak, and so I can't complain at all about what what caused my life to change. Nicole Pytel  1:00:15 Yeah, I mean everything happens for a reason. I really do believe that, and and you may not know what that reason is right away, but yeah, I mean, look at you. I I I can't even imagine having been there on September 11th. It was it was jaw dropping enough to to watch it on TV, and and I'm sure there was a lot that went through your mind and and went through your mind during and right after. And but now look at I mean all the people that that you've gotten to inspire and and educate and motivate and and people who have really learned something and you never would have had that platform. It's it's it's really something. Michael Hingson  1:00:56 Yeah, and and it's and and if you're given a choice between two things that both really sound great, you make a choice, and then you live with the choice you made. Again, don't don't what if the things over which you don't have control, Nicole Pytel  1:01:13 right? Exactly. Michael Hingson  1:01:15 Well, if someone is in a position today where they're listening and they're standing kind of in the same place you were when you decided to go leave television, so on, and they're certain that they should be going off and doing something different, but they're terrified to admit it. What would you say is the one thing that you should tell them? Nicole Pytel  1:01:36 I would say if your gut is telling you to do something, you need to listen to it, and I would say, ask yourself why not me? Why can't I go do this now? If you want to run off and be an

What if social media left you feeling encouraged instead of angry, anxious, or drained? I talk with Kevin Clark, one of the people behind Blessn, a faith-based social media app built around positive connection, community, and creator monetization. Kevin shares how a friendship that began backstage at the Academy Awards grew into years of entrepreneurship, failed ideas, successful homes for people with developmental disabilities, and eventually app development. We also explore doom scrolling, fear management, trust, learning from failure, listening to your inner voice, and focusing on what you can control. Kevin's story is a reminder that building something worthwhile often takes far more persistence than expected, but community and purpose can make the effort worth it. Highlights: 00:10:46 - Learn why repeated business failures can become valuable training for future success. 00:21:17 - Discover how Blessn combines faith, positive social media, and creator income. 00:26:19 - Explore how fear can become a tool instead of something that controls you. 00:37:20 - Consider what changes when doom scrolling is replaced with faith-focused content. 00:47:03 - Learn how trust and shared values can strengthen an online community. 00:54:12 - Hear what founders often underestimate about app development, testing, and feedback. About the Guest: Gerald Jones and Kevin Clark's friendship goes back over 20 years, to the night they first met backstage at the Academy Awards. Their bond grew through creativity, shared values, and a deep desire to make a difference. Together, they later won an Emmy Award for a public service announcement addressing school gun violence - a project that reflected their heart for inspiring hope and protecting the next generation. Beyond their work in media, Gerald and Kevin have also been long-time business partners supporting individuals with developmental disabilities, running programs focused on empowerment and compassion. This commitment to community is woven into everything they do - and it became the foundation of Blessn. The story of Blessn began in March 2023, when Gerald Jones became sick of doom scrolling on social media, and found himself bummed out after every TikTok session. It occurred to him that maybe there was a better way. There should be a short form video social media that uplifted and encouraged instead. He thought it would be better to faith scroll instead of doom scroll. He called his business partner, Kevin Clark, who was feeling the exact same way. They decided to create something themselves, that uplifted people about the world and each other. Something that encouraged connectedness. Over the next several years, the two friends poured their faith, creativity, and personal savings into developing the Blessn app, testing every detail to make sure it felt safe, uplifting, and positive. Their mission is to shift the culture of social media and to make it a place where kindness, faith, and encouragement are celebrated, not drowned out by negativity. At its heart, Blessn is more than an app - it's a movement. A space where users can share uplifting videos, connect with others who believe in goodness, and replace endless “doom scrolling” with “faith scrolling.” Gerald and Kevin believe that positive scrolling has the power to change hearts, strengthen communities, and remind people that light always wins over darkness. **For more information on the Blessn app, visit: blessn.com** Ways to connect with Richard**:** The Blessn website is: https://blessn.com Follow on social media @blessnapp  social media links: Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/blessnapp Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Blessnapp About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What makes a leader worth following when money and job security are not enough? Richard Battle has spent more than 40 years learning that leadership is built through service, purpose, and the way we respond when life does not go as planned. Richard and I explore lessons from corporate leadership, volunteer organizations, grief, personal growth, lifelong learning, and his American Can-Do book series. You will hear why servant leadership can motivate people far beyond a paycheck, why Richard replaced “Why me?” with “What now?” during adversity and how recording our stories can leave lessons for generations we may never meet. I believe you will find Richard's approach to leadership and purpose both practical and encouraging. Highlights: 00:03:57 – What a major financial setback taught Richard about real-world learning. 00:16:46 – Why volunteer leadership can make you a stronger business leader. 00:23:19 – Why preserving your stories can matter to future generations. 00:30:24 – How shifting from “Why me?” to “What now?” changes adversity. 00:46:28 – What inspired Richard's American Can Do book series. 1:03:36 – Why Richard believes purpose can continue beyond our lifetime. About the Guest: Author, Speaker, and Advisor “Richard Battle is the antidote to that which brings you down.” – Gail Fallen, 1310KFKA Veteran of life's' battles whose mission is Helping People Win Every day! Richard has been a public speaker on leadership, inspiration, history, sales, volunteerism, and patriotism for over 30 years.  He is the multi-award-winning, Best-Selling author of 12 books. Richard Battle was a corporate executive with decades of experience in leadership, sales, and executive management. Texas Governor Rick Perry appointed him to the Texas Judicial Council and the Texas Emerging Technology Fund. He served on the board of directors and was a past chairman of Alpha Kappa Psi, an international professional business fraternity. As president of the Austin Junior Chamber of Commerce, the U.S. Junior Chamber of Commerce recognized the chapter as the Most Outstanding chapter in the United States, and the Junior Chamber of Commerce International recognized Richard as the Outstanding Chapter President in the world. His board service includes the John Ben Shepperd Leadership Institute, Boy Scouts of America, the Muscular Dystrophy Association, and Keep Austin Beautiful. Richard serves as master of ceremonies for the Texas State Prayer Breakfast, which honors the governor for the National Day of Prayer. Not immune to challenges, Richard has survived an apartment fire in which his neighbor died, experienced financial ruin with the Texas real estate collapse in the 1980s, divorce, experienced two heart procedures, survived cancer, and the most significant loss of all, the death of his only son. Richard lives in Lakeway, Texas Aim High Work Hard! NEVER Quit! ® Ways to connect with Richard**:** www.richardbattle.com richard@richardbattle.com X = @richardvbattle Richard V. Battle Published Works on FB P.O. Box 341911 Lakeway, Texas 78734 512-987-2058 For interview requests, contact Allen Media Strategies: Shaili Priya at shaili@allenmediastrategies.com or 703-589-8960. About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What does it take to carry one film idea for more than 20 years and finally bring it to the screen? William Joseph Hill is an actor, writer, martial artist, producer, and independent filmmaker whose love of movies began with Star Wars. We explore how his childhood in Hawaii, business training, acting career, and martial arts experience led him to create Cyber Fighter. William shares how he turned the story into a novel, comic book, audiobook, and short film while learning crowdfunding, directing, visual effects, sound design, and post-production. You will also hear how AI tools are changing independent filmmaking, why strong preparation matters, and how support from the right people can keep a creative dream alive. William's story clearly shows what can happen when you keep learning, trust your vision, and refuse to stop. Highlights: 00:04:35 How movies and Star Wars inspired William's filmmaking dream. 00:21:51 How martial arts and brain science shaped Cyber Fighter. 00:26:39 Why a short film became the best way to prove his vision. 00:32:44 How William moved forward without waiting for Hollywood gatekeepers. 00:46:30 Why persistence and support are key to an unstoppable mindset. 00:56:35 How AI can support filmmakers without replacing human creativity. About the Guest: William Joseph Hill is a SAG-AFTRA actor, filmmaker, writer, and producer based in Los Angeles, California. Raised in San Diego and Hawaii on Ford Island — the historic naval base at the center of Pearl Harbor — William grew up with a perspective shaped by the intersection of military history, multicultural community, and the vast Pacific. That island upbringing instilled in him a belief that where you come from is never a limitation on where you can go.  He began making films as a teenager on Ford Island. Returning to San Diego after college, William moved to Hollywood where he began his professional acting career.  He met his actress wife Pamela through a theater group and the both of them founded Four Scorpio Productions where they've created their own content including three seasons of That Darn Girlfriend, their YouTube channel sitcom which is an homage to classic 1960s/1970s TV. In 2023, William channeled more than two decades of experience into his most ambitious project: CYBER FIGHTER, an original sci-fi martial arts short film that he wrote, directed, produced, and completed entirely in post-production — solo. With a $20,000 budget raised entirely through an Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign launched during the SAG-AFTRA and WGA strikes, William refused to let industry upheaval stop him from making his vision real. He performed his own stunts, edited the film, created all visual effects, mixed a 5.1 surround soundtrack, and delivered a 4K DCP for festival screenings — all from his home studio in Hollywood. CYBER FIGHTER is more than a short film — it is the proof of concept for a full transmedia franchise that William has been building since 2015. The IP exists across multiple formats: a completed short film now entering the festival circuit, a feature-length screenplay, an original novel, and a comic book adaptation. It is the story of a filmmaker who refused to wait for permission, refused to accept that resources determine vision, and refused to quit when everything around him said stop. Ways to connect with William**:** Personal Website: www.williamjosephhill.com Production Company: www.fourscorpio.com Film and Video CYBER FIGHTER Official Trailer: https://youtu.be/Ja-S5HgNK5E YouTube Channel (Four Scorpio Films): https://youtube.com/fourscorpio Making CYBER FIGHTER BTS Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Sj6Du4oNA&list=PLbYhzGWWTWrpvoT2eh730iA6_b_2qhFsO IMDb Profile: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0384069 Social Media LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamjosephhill/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamjosephhill/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CyberFighterMovie Stage32: https://www.stage32.com/williamjosephhill Amazon Listing CYBER FIGHTER - novel: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081SJRMJ1 CYBER FIGHTER comic adaptation: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZL6X6W6 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What can live radio offer that an algorithm never will? I talk with WNCW radio host and Southern Songs and Stories creator Joe Kendrick about music discovery, public radio, human connection, and the changing music industry. Joe shares how childhood mixtapes led to more than 30 years at WNCW, where live DJs help listeners find new artists while reflecting the communities they serve. We also explore emergency broadcasting, vinyl records, streaming royalties, podcasting, bluegrass history, and why supporting artists and public media still matters. I believe you will enjoy Joe's stories and his clear reminder that technology can offer endless choice, but it cannot replace a trusted human voice. Highlights: 01:23 – How a small-town childhood shaped Joe's curiosity. 04:29 – How radio and mixtapes sparked his love of music. 17:49 – Why live radio creates a stronger human connection. 22:28 – How public radio supports people during crises. 31:16 – Why public radio still matters to communities. 41:38 – How streaming affects artists and music value. About the Guest: Fascinated by radio at an early age, I was having “driveway” moments by grade school, or at least moments when I wished my parents would let the song play out before cutting off the engine. My father's turntable, with its enchanting cue lamp shining on the platter's pattern of dots indicating whether it was at the correct speed, was like a lighthouse beckoning me to a land filled with yet-to-be discovered, electrified bliss. I was also enamored of stars on television, including sportscasters and newscasters, taking on their persona to call an imagined NASCAR race on a portable cassette recorder for example, and imitating Robin Williams in front of my fourth-grade class. By middle school, I got my first jam box and was off to the races with mix tapes, recording songs straight off the radio, my favorite study aid. I was keenly interested in not only the music on the radio but also how the DJs presented it, and would call in to make requests or to ask why they kept playing the Guns N' Roses songs I did not like. I started collecting music, primarily though tape clubs like Columbia House. I read Rolling Stone and wrote to the editor to disagree with a David Fricke review of Jimmy Page's album Outrider. By college, I was determined to become a DJ, the coolest job on the planet. At UNC-Chapel Hill, WXYC beckoned, and after trying and failing to get on staff (the screening process was quite challenging, filled with questions about music I had never heard of on commercial radio or in print), I landed there in my junior year. There, my musical horizons expanded beyond where I could have imagined when transfixed by that vintage Technics turntable spinning Queen's News of the World a few years before. There was more, of course, like college basketball (asking Dean Smith a question about how he coached his teams to shoot free throws so well at a student forum was likely my first brush with greatness), and a budding instinct to make sense of the world via the written word. Journalism school (specifically advertising) and hand-written album reviews at WXYC were early outlets. During and after college, there was also the occasional short story or essay, along with a few features on other passions like mountain biking, and more music reviews to write for zines and entertainment weeklies. Writing and radio remained an avocation for the next fifteen years, with a notable stretch of ten years as a franchise owner in the landscape lighting business dominating my resume before selling that and becoming full time morning host at public radio WNCW in 2006, where I had been volunteering following college before working part-time in the early 2000s. In the mid-1990s, I moved into the old family homestead, which my great-grandparents begun in the 1880s. I got married and had kids, and learned about being a husband and father, as well as how to take up the mantle of family legacy. Two ancestors who became more and more important in this legacy are Earl Scruggs (see: banjo) and W.J. Cash, author of The Mind of the South. Fast forward to 2014, and the concept for Southern Songs and Stories had taken firm root, after previous music-oriented endeavors Lingua Musica and What It Is had run their courses. As a video documentary series before lack of funds cut it short at two episodes, it became obvious that my ambitions outstripped my means, and making it a podcast was the way to go.  DIY, y'all. Southern Songs and Stories is primarily a music artist-focused series, with interviews, music excerpts, and commentary. The concept of elision is my north star: I edit conversations to fit for length (typically a half hour each episode, currently) and for the overarching statements that each episode should make. Marrying concepts and focusing on the intersection of ideas is typically my goal, along with the foundational work of highlighting engaging conversations and music. My hope is to bring in casual fans and die-hards alike: whether you know anything about artist X, Y or Z, I aim to pull you into their world within the first three minutes and keep you engaged there for the remainder of each podcast. I also love working with a chain saw and making campfires, but that conversation can wait until we might connect later on. Ways to connect with Joe**:** WNCW https://www.wncw.org/people/joe-kendrick-1 Southern Songs and Stories: https://www.southernsongsandstories.com/ Because WNCW is an NPR station, I have gotten involved with many projects there. For example, I was featured for a week during The World Café's “Sense Of Place” series when they came to Asheville, NC in 2016. I produced videos in their Night Owl series which they posted on their Facebook for a while. This is the most recent example, when I was on their podcast New Music Friday: https://www.npr.org/2025/07/25/1256217309/new-music-friday-july-25-2025 Social links: https://substack.com/@joekendrick – I post scripts and transcripts of the podcast here https://www.facebook.com/joseph.kendrick -- I mostly remain quiet here so as not to work for free https://www.instagram.com/southstories/ -- likewise, I post infrequently https://www.youtube.com/@JoeKendrickNC – all my podcasts go here, plus very many other videos I make About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Can creative people protect their work without letting fear stop them from being bold? Gordon Firemark's path from a teased redheaded kid and backstage theater technician to entertainment lawyer and podcast lawyer shows how unexpected turns can shape a meaningful career. Gordon and I explore entertainment law, podcast legal protection, career setbacks, asking for help, trusting your skills, and knowing when to test your limits. You will also hear how podcasting changed his legal practice, why teaching helps him become a better lawyer, and how creators can share their ideas with greater confidence and less legal risk. Highlights: 00:02:15 - How a school principal redirected Gordon toward theater, media, and law. 00:11:17 - How surviving a bus crash became a lesson in perseverance. 00:15:30 - Why asking for help is a sign of strength. 00:21:07 - How entertainment law protects creators and their work. 00:28:36 - Why resourcefulness helps you say yes and figure things out. 00:44:29 - How Gordon became a leading podcast lawyer. About the Guest: Gordon Firemark helps creatives, artists, entrepreneurs and businesses achieve the dream of getting their messages out so they can achieve the impact, influence, and income they deserve.  An entertainment and media lawyer who is often referred to as The Podcast Lawyer™, he has represented some of the top voices in digital media, as well as in independent film, television and live theatre.   A podcaster himself, he's been producing and hosting the Entertainment Law Update podcast since 2009, and more recently, live-streaming Legit Podcast Pro weekly, featuring audio and video legal tips and strategies for podcasters and YouTubers. Gordon is the author of the Podcast, Blog & New Media Producer's Legal Survival Guide and creator of several online courses for creatives, coaches and lawyers in small or solo practice.   His undergraduate degree in radio, television and film and experience in live theatre production informs his thinking about all things legal.  In addition to his busy law practice, he has taught college and law school courses in Entertainment Law, Intellectual Property law, Media ethics and theatre law. Gordon lives in the Los Angeles area with his wife, three children and a menagerie of pets. Ways to connect with Gordon**:** Web and Social Channels Law Firm Blog - http://firemark.com Facebook - http://facebook.com/gfiremark The Podcast Lawyer (on Facebook) - http://facebook.com/podcastlaw Linkedin -http://linkedin.com/in/gfiremark Instagram -http://instagram.com/gordonfiremark Youtube -http://youtube.com/gfiremark Podcasts Entertainment Law Update -  http://entertainmentlawupdate.com Legit Podcast Pro - http://legitpodcastpro.captivate.fm Courses, Memberships, Forms & Templates Easy Legal For Podcasters - https://easylegalforpodcasters.com Easy Podcast Law Forms - https://podcastlawforms.com  Easy Legal For (Digital) Entrepreneurs -   https://easylegalforentrepreneurs.com  Easy Legal Forms & Templates - https://easylegaltemplates.com  e-Book The Podcast, Blog & New Media Producer's Legal Survival Guide - https://podcastlawbook.com  Workshops & MasterClass Sessions Podcast Growth & Profit: Mastering the Fundamentals, Avoiding Common Mistakes -  https://podcastertraining.com  Legal Protection for Online Entrepreneurs, Coaches & Courses - Https://law4courses.com  How To Protect your Podcast: Easy, affordable legal strategies without expensive lawyers! - https://podcastlaw.net  Own Your Brand Before Someone Else Does! - https://ownyourbrandnow.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

A bestselling computer book and a mayor's office may seem worlds apart, but Dan Gookin's path connects them through curiosity, clear communication, and public service. I talk with the DOS for Dummies author and Coeur d'Alene mayor about making technical writing useful, challenging industries that resist new ideas, and finding success by improving work others do poorly. Dan also shares why he entered local politics, how transparency and community engagement built public trust, and why responsible leadership often means asking the questions others overlook. We close by exploring political division, religious freedom, social media algorithms, and the need to reduce online anger without losing the internet's benefits. Highlights: 00:06:48 - Why leaving your comfort zone creates growth. 00:11:07 - How doing something better can become a business. 00:12:39 - Why writing for beginners changed computer publishing. 00:27:06 - How transparency concerns led Dan into politics. 00:37:30 - Why responsiveness helped Dan earn public trust. 00:54:49 - How social media fuels anger and division. About the Guest: Dan Gookin is the mayor-elect of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, having won election in November 2025 after serving on the City Council since 2011. Known as a fiscal conservative, outspoken advocate for government transparency, and a committed budget hawk who asks tough questions, he is often described as “the lone voice of reason” on the council, consistently championing the public and the “little guy” against bureaucracy. Gookin views his public service as protecting individual rights. He prides himself on listening to all perspectives, welcoming alternative viewpoints, remaining open to new information, and never being a rubber-stamp vote. Professionally, Gookin is known as a writer and online trainer. He has been writing about technology since the early days of personal computing, combining his humor with a passion for gadgets to create informative and entertaining books. He authored the groundbreaking DOS For Dummies in 1991—the world's fastest-selling computer book at the time and the title that launched the iconic For Dummies series, now a publishing phenomenon. With more than 170 titles to his credit, over 12 million copies in print, and translations into more than 30 languages, his popular works include PCs and Laptops For Dummies, Android For Dummies, Word For Dummies, and C For Dummies. He maintains two helpful websites, wambooli.com and c-for-dummies.com. He creates online courses for LinkedIn Learning on diverse topics, and in 2020 published Running for Local Office For Dummies. Gookin graduated from the University of California, San Diego with a BA in Communications/Visual Arts and minors in cognitive psychology and theatrical design. He put his creative talents to work as artistic director of the Lake City Playhouse, where he designed sets, lighting, and directed many productions between 1997 and 2002. First and foremost, Dan considers himself a father who raised four boys in Idaho. Gookin resides in Coeur d'Alene with his wife, Brie, along with various children and pets. In his leisure time, he enjoys woodworking, playing the piano, riding his bike, cooking, gardening, and making lists of things he enjoys doing along with occasionally annoying those who think that they're important. Ways to connect with Dan**:** LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-gookin-46995713/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/dangookin About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hello there, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. I am your host, Michael Hingston, and today we get to chat with Dan Gookin. Do you know who Dan Gookin is? Probably not, but you will by the time we're done. But I will tell you one thing about Dan. He was elected mayor of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, in November of 2025. I think Dan, you're the first political person as such that we have had on, which is kind of cool. I'm really honored to to have you here, and and we can spend the the whole time picking on on other politicians, but there's no need to do that. I mean, what good does it do? It's a waste of time. But I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset, and Dan, thanks very much for being here. Dan Gookin  01:44 Thank you, Michael. Thank you for having me on. Michael Hingson  01:46 Well, this will, I think, really be a lot of fun. I'm sorry that you guys aren't getting a lot of snow up there. My brother-in-law has been keeping me posted on the lack of snow, so today here we're expecting a temperature at about 70 degrees. Last week it got up to 39. So I don't know. There's something going on with the climate. Dan Gookin  02:10 Something. Michael Hingson  02:11 Yeah, whatever it is. Speaker 1  02:13 Well, there was a name for that. Michael Hingson  02:15 Yeah, yeah. If if there were enough people, would only believe it. But that's another story. You are right. Well, thanks very much for being here. Why don't we start? Tell me about the early Dan growing up and all that. Speaker 1  02:31 So I grew up in San Diego, California. Good place. I still say San Michael Hingson  02:35 Diego has the best weather in the country. Speaker 1  02:38 They do. It's changed a little bit as everything has, but I escaped from there back in 1991. Went up to Washington State because I was doing some work with Microsoft, and then decided that that was Seattle was another big city. So we kept looking east and finally landed in Idaho in Coeur d'Alene because it's pretty. Michael Hingson  03:01 It's a nice area. So you you did your schooling and all that down in San Diego. Speaker 1  03:06 Yeah, I graduated from the University of California, San Diego with a degree in communication visual arts. That was in 1983. Michael Hingson  03:13 Cool, wow. I've spent many a a day down in San Diego. I lived in Vista for six years, so I'm familiar with the area. Yeah, I liked Vista. Vista was a nice place to be. You Speaker 1  03:24 did a radio show out of Vista. Did you for a while? Yeah, computer call-in show. So that was way back. Michael Hingson  03:32 What did you discuss, or just anything dealing with computers? I Speaker 1  03:36 was editing a magazine, a local computer magazine at the time, and we purchased an hour, and so I would drive from my home in Tierra Santa all the way up to Vista to be in this little tiny radio station, where we would do call-ins. And sometimes people would call in, and I would help them solve their computer problems. And sometimes I had to talk to myself for Michael Hingson  03:57 an hour. And and and did you get answers when you talk to yourself. Speaker 1  04:02 No, but I got really hoarse. Ah, okay. Michael Hingson  04:04 Well, you know, just just checking. Well, that's cool. Well, I guess we could tell everyone that, among other things, Dan is also the author of a number of books, including DOS for Dummies. I still like DOS. Thank you. I I like DOS. I've just always enjoyed it. Although, I have to admit, Windows has progressed a whole lot more. But I always liked DOS. Speaker 1  04:27 Yes, it was good, and and it was its complexity or its a rudeness, I shall say. Yeah, that's a good. Sold the book because you had to type. You had to know the commands in Windows. You can kind of look and point and do all this stuff, but in DOS, you had to know the commands and type the commands, and people wouldn't-they couldn't remember. There were all these options, and so we sold a lot of books doing that. It's still, like I said, I I like it too. I like the command line because it's faster if you know what you have to type. Yeah, it takes less time to type. Than it does to look around, point and shoot with the mouse. Michael Hingson  05:04 Yeah, there are a number of blind people on some list serves that I am part of that every so often something regarding DOS comes up, which is I think kind of cool. Speaker 1  05:15 Yep, hasn't gone away. It's it's still lurking in there somewhere. Michael Hingson  05:19 It is still a kind of the basic underpinning foundation of a lot of Windows, isn't it? Speaker 1  05:25 Well, Windows actually does run on top of it still. If you if you when you start a program in Windows, you're actually issuing a text command. So inside there is a long text command that is issued that gets everything running. It's just that you're configuring that from a graphical perspective, Michael Hingson  05:44 right? Yeah, but but it is still running. DOS essentially runs under Windows, which is which is something that is is relevant. So I guess we could blame that on Bill Gates, Speaker 1  05:57 or credit him. I don't know. Michael Hingson  05:58 Or yeah, yeah, one of the other. Well, so you you graduated, you moved to Seattle. As you said, it is a big city, although you know it's kind of hard to fight Pike's fish market. Speaker 1  06:11 Well, there's there's the fun and charming parts of of Seattle that I really enjoyed. So I mean, I can't say that you know it was a horrible city. The thing I admired about Seattle the most was that Seattle would occasionally not take itself seriously, and I liked that it had a sense of humor and that people there were generally good natured. San Diego was a little bit more uptight, you know, fair weather fans, that kind of stuff, where Seattle was more of a community, and I admired that greatly. Michael Hingson  06:43 And there used to be a lot of rain up there. Speaker 1  06:45 Not as much as people say. That's kind of their reputation. The Pacific Northwest we do have. So I moved from Southern California where you have 360 days of sun a year to Pacific Northwest where you have 180, so it was kind of a shock from that point of view. It's mostly like today; it's overcast. It's just there's no sun, so that's the big difference. Michael Hingson  07:10 And then you moved up to Idaho, and and how many days of sun or not sun are there a year? Speaker 1  07:16 Oh, still about 180. 180. Uh huh. But it's you know so you get used to it after a while, and when the sun comes out, you're all happy, and it's like, look, the sun's out, everything's pretty. Michael Hingson  07:27 Yeah, fair. Yeah. So when you were in San Diego and so on, what did you want to do or be when you grew up? Speaker 1  07:36 So originally, I wanted to be a doctor, and then I had the misfortune of being in a hospital, and I said I don't ever want to be back here, and changed my mind and figured I would be a writer. So for years I started writing and submitting things to magazines, trying to work on books and stuff. I mean I wrote a few books, and they say that you have to get about a million words of junk out before you actually are a good writer. So I I worked on that for a long time, and got to the point where I I actually had a reputation with some of the editors in the magazines who would write me back personal notes instead of the generic you know dismissal, and so that was working really well. But then what happened in 1984 was I wrote something for the local computer flyer, and they liked that, and it got published, and that was what really started the career for tech because tech wanted people who knew how to write, so that was good timing. Michael Hingson  08:35 Yeah, so many technical manuals are just so boring. I really wish people would learn how to write more interesting books. Of course, I say that about textbooks as well. I am of the opinion that having a master's degree in physics and having read many a physics book, the and there are so few of them. The best books are the ones where the authors have put some actual personal stories in to draw people in with human interest parts of the science, and I wish more people would do that. Speaker 1  09:03 And that was my point too. It was like these books are dull and boring. And the problem I had because I was writing computer books at the time, I had a computer book literary agent. There is such a thing, and it's it's backwards in that industry though, because the publisher says what they want a book on, and then they have you write the book on the topic, and so I was doing that for many years. But I did not like the fact that they would edit my books to make them dry, and the editors would actually complain to me and say, "There's too much personality in here. You can't have this. It was like it was like they thought that was a built-in feature of the book, and my protest was, "Well, no. Let's make them interesting. Let's use real life examples. Let's have some personality in there. Let's have some interaction with the with the reader. And they didn't like that until DOS for Dummies came around, and the publisher was willing to change the paradigm. Michael Hingson  09:55 Jeez, yeah, it's so unfortunate. They they think they know. Everything there is to know, and the reality is they don't. Speaker 1  10:04 That's the way it is with just about any industry. You know that I think the corporate mentality is kind of to resist innovation, even in the most innovative industries, until something crazy comes along. And I think that's why in Silicon Valley you had all these startups. You know, if you look, if you trace the lineage of a lot of the big companies, they started at other big companies that were unwilling to do the crazy ideas these guys had, and so they went off. I mean, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak left Hewlett Packard and started up Apple Computer, and I'm pretty sure there's probably been some engineers from Apple Computer who've left and started up their own company and becoming Michael Hingson  10:43 well. And Bill Gates is essentially the same way. It's it's he started out doing something, but he attracted people's attention by some of the other things that he did. Speaker 1  10:53 Yep. Michael Hingson  10:54 And that was was very relevant. But I I hear what you're saying. It makes perfect sense because people just don't like to be innovative and don't like change, and and that's unfortunate that we have so many people that just, as much as they talk about the fact that change is everywhere, they don't like it. Speaker 1  11:10 No, it's well, I think yeah, we we get in our comfort zone, and you don't grow out in the comfort zone. So I like to challenge myself and do interesting things like become mayor, and you know you leave your comfort zone. And what what can I do here, or how can I do this better? Michael Hingson  11:26 Yeah, well, and that makes makes perfect sense. Well, what got you started writing about technology? Just because you were writing that that one article there, or those articles that got interest on the part of a publisher, or what? Speaker 1  11:41 What got me started was that I got paid. Ah, Michael Hingson  11:44 good point. Speaker 1  11:45 You know, they they paid me, and then you know, as as someone who was you know using a computer at the time, and they were called microcomputers, and they were really primitive compared to what we have today. Oh yeah, I I used it to write. So, and the the problem with that was that the the documents, the manuals that we talk about, were so dry and boring, and eventually, all of a sudden, it would dawn on me: it's like, well, this is what it's trying to say. So why don't they just come out and say it this way, or why don't they use an analogy and try to explain it in that manner instead of coming at it from this hardcore technical? And that was what really turned off a lot of people, so it motivated me to want to do it better, and that's kind of what I tell the kids, like my kids. I say you should start up a business. That's really the best way to get successful is start up your own business and become famous like that. And they're well, what business should I start up? I said that the easiest way is to find something that you like, something that's being done poorly, and just do it better. Yeah, and that's really a lot of the the creative, insanely genius stuff that's happened throughout the world is just someone who does something routine but does it better. Michael Hingson  12:52 And that's really the operative part about it, and and the real key. I think you're you're absolutely right. Find something that people aren't doing well, and by the time you get creative enough to figure that out, you're well on your way. Speaker 1  13:05 Yep. So that's that's what I did. Michael Hingson  13:08 Yeah. And so you started going off and and writing a variety of things. What what actually got you to write Dos for Dummies? What specifically? That's first of all, I love the the title of all the Four Dummies books. I think it makes sense. But what got you started in writing DOS for Dummies directly? Speaker 1  13:27 Well, I I knew that there was an appetite out there for beginner computer books, but the publishing industry would not publish beginning computer books because they said beginners don't buy computer books. And I explained to them, well, your problem is you don't write beginner computer books. You write something and you call it, you know, the easy guide to whatever, but the content of it is not written for a beginner. Maybe the first chapter is very condescending and patronizing, and then the rest of it is just technical garbage. So I said you have to keep that tone throughout the entire text. You have to identify who it is you're writing to, as who's a smart person who may just not get it, and explain it to them, and just keep going. And that was the problem. So I I did originally called it the Idiots Guide for DOS, which was based after the Idiots Guide to Volkswagen Repair. My dad had a copy of that, and I thought, well, what a brilliant idea. Michael Hingson  14:20 Yeah. Speaker 1  14:21 And so the publisher saw me speak at a conference, and where I was bemoaning the fact that the books were so boring, and they kept editing out my personality. And then went to to him, and and he's like, "This is great. Your outline that you have for this book is perfect. Except we want to call it DOS for Dummies. I thought, like a lot of other people, that was condescending and patronizing, but that it's an alliteration, so that's what they go with. And then he said to make it a reference. Don't make it a tutorial because, and this is brilliant, these people don't want to learn anything; they just want to do their job. Yeah, that makes sense. So that was and that was it, and we put a lot of humor in it. You know, people would tell me that they'd read the book on the subway, and you know, you'd see someone laughing reading a computer book. That's weird, but there would just be enough humor, and I'd use Mad Magazine as my inspiration. So it was kind of like us versus the nerds, and and that was what really founded the whole thing, and I tell you what, it caught on. I did not think it would. There was no way we were planning on writing a book that would sell, you know, 8 million copies. We were just thinking, well, this is going to be fun. Let's just do this, get it out of our system, and then go back to writing boring books. Michael Hingson  15:36 Made the publisher very happy. Speaker 1  15:39 Oh yeah, they were printing Gold bricks, yeah. Michael Hingson  15:43 That, of course, was the real key. Well, that started a brand, didn't it? Speaker 1  15:47 Oh yeah, they did. There was no intention to do that, but then they they followed that up with Max for Dummies and a bunch of other titles that were just very popular at the time. AOL for Dummies, you know, Windows for Dummies eventually came out, and that was the King for Dummies book. But yeah, they have and they have it on all topics. I've even so as someone who is you know starting in government, I got Robert's Rules for Dummies, which you know you've been to a meeting, you know they follow Robert's Rules, which is very dry and boring, but it's it's important. And Robert's Rules for Dummies is a good example of a For Dummies book because it explains everything carefully. Lots of humor in there, and so there's a lot of them. Wine for Dummies was another one that I really liked. I thought they did a good job. Golf for Dummies. There's a there's on every topic. There's a For Dummies book. Michael Hingson  16:37 How many of them did you write? Speaker 1  16:40 Only wrote the ones with my names on them, but probably about 40 separate titles. So over the years, most of them have been rewrites. So technology changes. So there have been 16 editions of Word for Dummies, and 13 editions of PCs for Dummies. There were four editions of DOS for Dummies. So you're you're always writing new editions, so all totaled 180 separate titles. But individual titles, without not counting multiple editions, right? About 60. Michael Hingson  17:09 Wow. Speaker 1  17:10 Yeah. Yeah, Michael Hingson  17:10 and I can appreciate that that books like Word for Dummies or even iPhones for Dummies has to change over time. Speaker 1  17:19 Yeah. Well, some of them. I mean, I've been doing a kind of a review on on YouTube. I've been doing short videos highlighting some of the goofy images that I put in the books over the years. And way back about 20 years ago, I think I was updating these titles once a year. They would say, "We need a new version of this. We need a new version of this. And at the time, technology was just. I mean, they were cranking out new stuff all the time. Michael Hingson  17:44 So, who's written AI for Dummies? Speaker 1  17:47 I don't know, but that is a title, so I wouldn't be Michael Hingson  17:50 surprised. Speaker 1  17:51 It should write itself, though. You think about Michael Hingson  17:53 it. Yeah, you you know, they they really should do that. It should write itself. Speaker 1  17:56 Someone told me once that they they they wanted to do a manual in my style, so they directed AI to write something in the style of Dan Gukan, and apparently AI can do that. So, am I going to get paid? I don't know. Michael Hingson  18:10 Well, that's another story, of course. Yeah, but still, it it is a it's a it's a great franchise. It's a great brand all the way around, and I know different people have written different different kinds of books like that, but still, the the fact is we need that in the world, and and I agree with you, especially that it's good to put humor and personality into it. And I really wish more people would do that. I really wish that would go into the the textbook world, but it hasn't yet. Speaker 1  18:37 No, that's that, and that's a different planet. I tried to break into that world, and that academia is is it's different. It is weird. Michael Hingson  18:44 Yeah, there are just not that many people who can get away with it like Richard Feynman did with some of the things that he did in physics, and even there, his his books were a little boring at times. But still, Speaker 1  18:56 he was awesome. His of course, his his autobiography is a lot of fun. Michael Hingson  19:00 Yeah, surely you're joking, mr. Fineman. Speaker 1  19:03 Exactly. Michael Hingson  19:04 Adventures of yeah, it is. I I keep it around. I've got an audio copy of it, and every so often I will go back and read parts of it. It's a it's a great book. Speaker 1  19:14 He's kind of an inspiration to me, especially in the area of government. And one of the parts of his book where he was on the panel that was reviewing textbooks for, I think, the state of California, and he noticed that one of the books was blank; it was empty, and he was the only one on the panel who did it. And I kind of echo that often in government because I'm occasionally the only person who actually reads some of the material they provide. Yeah, and and those kind of moments are classic. I love those. You know, when you can say, "Well, as everyone notices, you know, page 14 is blank, and they all madly flip to page 14, like, "Oh my gosh, how did you find this? Well, I, I did my job. I read the thing. Michael Hingson  19:54 I had a roommate in college, and we at that time we were using the Berkeley Physics series. I don't know. Whether that even still exists anymore, but different professors from Berkeley wrote various books, and the guy who wrote the book on waves, I had a roommate who was reading that book, and he searched vigorously to try to find a single misspelling of a word in the whole book. Wow! He finally found one. He said there really was one in the book. Kind of makes you wonder if that was deliberate, but but he actually found one. But it took him most of the quarter we had the book to find it. But but he did. Speaker 1  20:33 Excellent. Yeah, I got to say that's that's an art form. I used to work in a publishing house, and we would pore over books looking for spelling errors and mistakes and punctuation and all this stuff and of course you don't find them until the book's actually printed. Michael Hingson  20:46 Of course not. Yeah, yeah. Now it's it should be easier, but it's not, and they still don't come out until the book is already published and it's out there, and then you find out what isn't right. Speaker 1  20:58 Right. Michael Hingson  21:00 I suppose that gives the publisher an excuse to republish the book and make more money. Speaker 1  21:05 Well, yeah, it depends. It's if it is selling. If it doesn't sell, then obviously the the mistake's going to linger out there. Of course, with digital copies, they can update it right away, but not with a print book. Michael Hingson  21:17 Yeah, nowadays there's so many print books that are done pretty much on demand, so that if you want a copy, unless it's just something where they're selling literally millions a month, the book is available on demand. Although there's a little bit of a lag time to get it, my book Thunderdog, which is the story of Roselle and me in the World Trade Center, is is still selling pretty well, but it is more printed on demand by Thomas Nelson than now Harper Collins. Speaker 1  21:46 Yeah, Michael Hingson  21:47 and I understand that as long as it's available, I'm not going to complain. Speaker 1  21:51 And they and they they prefer to sell it that way as opposed to printing out 5000 copies they have to store somewhere. So Michael Hingson  21:56 right, yeah, they don't have to pay for storage and they just print it, and so it takes an extra week to get somewhere. That's fine. We can cope with that as long as it's available, and then that's all that really matters. Speaker 1  22:08 Yeah. Michael Hingson  22:09 But you've written a lot of books. How come so many? Because they're not all for dummies. Ah, okay. Speaker 1  22:16 Well, it just you know that was my profession, and that's what I did. And so, and I had a good agent who would find me a lot of work, so yeah, they would come up and they would want me to write a book on this or that, and a lot of it was because at the time in that industry I had a name and a reputation. I'm also very fast, so and that that kind of surprises people. In fact, there's some someone who accuses me of having a ghostwriter, which I do not. It's just I've been doing it so long, and you know, when I started, my agent said that he said the more you do this, the faster you'll get, the better you'll get. So, whereas in the original book, the first book I wrote took about six months to to write. I've written books in less than a month. It really depends. It depends on the topic, how well I know the topic, but also I do a lot of organizing with an outline, and so I will will work with an outline almost until it's down to the paragraph level, and then that makes it really easy to write the book, especially a technology book where there's a lot of cross references, and this sequence, you know, assuming someone's reading it front to back is really important, so you got to make sure that you touch upon things and do it in the right order. And then that's so yeah. I just got really good at it, which annoyed a lot of my fellow authors because as I was writing and I would get faster and faster, the contracts would start demanding the books in a more expedient manner, so other authors would complain to me and say, "You know, I have to write this book, and they're only giving me three months to do it. They're blaming me because I can do it in three months, and they figure everyone can do it in three months. So that was fun. Michael Hingson  23:54 Have you had books that someone asked you to write where you really didn't know much of anything about the subject, and you had to spend more time researching it, or you just spend time researching it, but you still did that very quickly. Speaker 1  24:06 Yeah, when I first started, that was pretty much the case. In fact, I talked with a guy who he had written the like the best-selling DBase three book. So DBase was a database way back in DOS, and it was the most popular database program, and he wrote the number one best-selling DBase three book that everyone who used that that program would buy, and he told me that he knew nothing about it when he signed the contract. So the the process of writing the book involved this intense deep dive into finding out what it is the program does, and then working on that. Of course, in those days, the books, the software came with a manual, so it was possible to go through the manual and see what the thing was capable of, and maybe get a few hints about that. But the books were not just a rephrase. The manual; they were a little bit better, the project oriented, whatever. So there was one one book that I did on a program called Super Card for the Macintosh, and it was the it was the there was no documentation, and I could call up the developer and I could ask him. So that was that was a tool I could use if I had access to the developer. I could call them up and I could say, "Okay, so I'm I'm doing this. What can you tell me that's like a secret or that is not obvious? And they love to share that stuff. Sure, I just write it all down, and then that that'll make the book better. If you could get through the the gatekeepers and get into where the nerds were, then you could get a lot of good information, and they were happy to share it. I did a few books on OS two that were like that, where I finally was able to escape into the lab and ask them. And the the guy they were so friendly, and they're like, "Oh, you got to tell him this, this, this, this. You know, we we couldn't put this in the manual. You have to tell him this, and so you write a great book. But of course, OS two, no one used it, so no one bought the book. Michael Hingson  26:05 Yeah, yeah, OS two was not one of those things that everybody loved. If Speaker 2  26:13 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the unstoppable mindset community. Michael Hingson  26:46 I remember when I was a student at UC Irvine. I wasn't an information computer science major. I was physics major, but several people took ICS one, two, and three, which was a three quarter course, or well, it was a year course, and the the book they used was Introduction to Computer Programming by Ken Ingram. And what was fun about that was that on the first day of class, the professor would come in and he'd say, "Okay, I want you to read chapter one of information of introduction to computer programming by Ken Ingram. It's the textbook we're going to use. I want you to read that before our next class. And of course, most everyone had not touched the book prior to that. And what he didn't say was that that first chapter took up half the book. Speaker 1  27:40 I like it. Michael Hingson  27:43 Yeah, I know. Wasn't that? And I, I, I heard about it. I, I never did get the book, and I didn't get it transcribed into Braille. But I thought that was cute. Chapter one was half the book. Speaker 1  27:53 No one would have suspected chapter one's an easy chapter. It's four pages. Right, supposed to be right. I think it was like Michael Hingson  28:00 180 pages. It was amazing. Michael Hingson  28:03 I'm not sure whether Ingram had a sense of humor or what, but anyway, there you go. But yeah, that that was kind of kind of amazing. So you you wrote all these books and you continue to do that, but somewhere along the line, you got interested in doing things in politics. What was that all about? Speaker 1  28:25 Well, that was frustrating. Not Michael Hingson  28:28 bad, Speaker 1  28:29 because I. So I think a lot of people are kind of interested. They follow politics. If I call up my mom in San Diego, she has to complain to me about you know the mayor of San Diego and what the city council is doing and and it's it's common it's just I think I think the most most people who are active in in their community know a little bit about politics or whatever and in my case I had just moved from the county here near Courtland and then I'd moved into the city, and I had heard that there was someone was buying up properties in my neighborhood, and I thought that was curious, and I wanted to see if this was something that you know are they going to tear down houses? What are they going to do? So I started researching using the the county website to see who was own who owned these properties, and it was a place called the Lake City Development Corporation, and I thought, well, I need to find out what that is, and it turned out that was an urban renewal agency that was formed by the city of Cortland, and I started reading the statutes and I started reading their minutes and finding out what it is they do, and while on the surface it sounded really fun, there were a lot of curious things that I didn't like. A lot of non-transparent things, a lot of things where you know they're spending public money on what I thought were frivolous things, and so I started asking questions. I started coming to meetings, and they're missing. Was that they pushed back, and so I just something triggered me, and I had a red flag, and I just started going after it. We started, we formed a group of people who were all interested in this, and we would meet regularly and go over what was going on with the government. We'd find issues regarding transparency and spending, and lots of interesting stuff. Never really anything nefarious. Never anything that would. But just a lot of stuff that, as we let the public know about what was going on, they would become outraged and they would say, "Wait a second! They're spending millions of dollars on this, and you know, with property taxes so high, and what is this, and why is it affecting me? And and so I went to the city council meetings here in Portland, and I was frustrated because no one else seemed to get it. And I would look at them, and they would have some issue that would come up, and everyone on the council-there were six members on the council-they would all vote in unison, and no one had asked a question. And I would say, "Well, wait a second, why aren't they asking a question about this, or why aren't they concerned about this, or what about the side effects of this? And so I started writing articles for the paper. I eventually did videos and to speak to various groups and such because I was like, we got to hold government accountable. So I ran for office in ran for the city council in 2007, and I lost. And then I ran in 2009, and I lost, but only by like 29 votes. And then I was done at that point. I really didn't want to do it again because running for office is a pain. Michael Hingson  31:33 Yeah. And Speaker 1  31:34 then they had this huge thing where all of a sudden they were going to redo a park without a public vote, and I wanted a public vote. Lots of people wanted to vote on it, but no, they were going to do it, and they didn't care what the public thought. So they made me run. They made me run a third time, and I won. And I've been on the city council ever since. And then, of course, well, since last November when I got kicked up to the mayor seat, which is where I'm sitting Right now, strange journey. Michael Hingson  32:04 Well, yeah, but on the other hand, there is something to be said for transparency, and there's somebody something to be said for somebody who really wants to look out for what what people want and what people are doing. I I got involved. Well, I've not run for public office, but I've been very much involved in political kinds of things because I've been involved in the blindness world since early 1970s, and the National Federation of the Blind has had for well now, gosh, more than 50 years or around 50 years, what used to be called the March on Washington. Now it's called the Washington Seminar, which is a an event that takes place every year, where several 100 blind people descend on Washington and go off and visit legislators. And the idea is to really get them to understand what the needs of blind people are and try to get them to vote on issues that directly relate to issues concerning us, and sometimes they do. Although it's gotten a lot harder to get things passed, especially in the last eight or nine years. But still, that it it has to be done. But I remember, among other things, I was living in Massachusetts when I first started going, and among other things, we we went and saw the Speaker of the House, who was Tip O'Neill at the time, which was kind of fun. And what an interesting, what a charismatic guy! Didn't matter what party he was with; it was a charismatic guy. And we also visited people like Senator at the time Paul Songis, and what was interesting about him was we we talked about our issues, and it was the end of the day, and then suddenly he said, you know, I'm not going anywhere for the next few minutes. Do you guys have time? And we ended up just talking for about an hour and a half about his view of of and our views of what Massachusetts needed to do, not only for blind people but just in general, it was just fascinating. There weren't very many politicians who would do that. Speaker 1  34:08 That's awesome. Yeah, I liked him. I liked Tungus a lot. Michael Hingson  34:12 Yeah, I wish he'd been able to run for president, but he got cancer, and that's that's unfortunate. Yeah, but because I think that he's one of those people who would do what really needed to be done and do it the right way. Speaker 1  34:26 In other words, the people who never win. Yeah, that's unfortunately Michael Hingson  34:31 really the case, isn't it? Speaker 2  34:33 Yeah, Speaker 1  34:33 yeah. Michael Hingson  34:34 But but you got to do that. Speaker 1  34:36 Yeah. Michael Hingson  34:38 So you you know, but you you hopefully you'll make a big difference, and maybe you'll be able to get people to believe in climate change. Oh, did I say that Speaker 1  34:48 this year? Nah, Michael Hingson  34:53 not unless you predict snow when it actually comes. Speaker 1  34:56 That and that and that's the key. Yeah, Michael Hingson  34:59 yeah. No, I understand, but it but it is fascinating. I you know I I enjoy the concept of politics. I enjoy people who really have a vested interest in making government go well, but it is so unfortunate that we don't see that much of it, which is just too bad. Speaker 1  35:18 There are a lot of good dedicated people out there. I think so. Of course, the the problem is is you know, like they say, politics is sports for the uncoordinated, and it's drama for the ugly. But the the thing is, the people who really do a good job, who are out there doing what you want them to do, they don't get the headlines. It's the noisemakers. It's the extremists. It's the people who are going to have some obnoxious opinion because that that gets everyone's attention. You know, the the guy out there who's doing the job, who's putting in the time, representing the citizens, and making his community a better place. You know, you're never going to read that guy in the paper, unfortunately. Michael Hingson  35:59 Yeah, and that's also part of the problem: is that the media looks for all the drama rather than really looking to to represent the the average citizen and what they truly want and need. Speaker 1  36:10 So those don't the actual the things don't make headlines. In fact, it was a it was really funny. There was a guy who was elected to the state house from this county, and one of his campaign platforms, he was going to repeal all the useless laws, all the things that are still on the books. That you know, just we don't need those laws anymore. They're old. They're outdated, and he did that for about a week, and it doesn't make headlines. So here he is, you know, doing this, doing the job that you think they they would want to do and making government more effective, no one cared. I remember there was one year where we actually we cut property taxes here in the city, and I thought, wow, everyone's going to come up and say thank you. No, no one did. So it's like, what's the motivation? If you go, they say, I want you to be I want you to be my mayor and I want you to work to cut that budget and so you cut the budget and then no one says thank you. Michael Hingson  37:08 We got Tom Steyer here in California who wants to become governor and he's talking about all these things that he's going to do. He's going to get electric utility rates lowered by a significant amount. He's going to encourage and bring competition to the electric grid industry, and he talks about lowering housing costs by building a million homes and doing so many things. And every time I hear his campaign commercials, the thing that I keep asking myself is, haven't we learned anything? And no offense to Donald Trump, but Donald Trump made a lot of promises that we're not seeing. Steyer is making a lot of promises that he has yet to say how he's going to pull any of them off. Speaker 1  37:56 Oh yeah, and that's and that's the thing is you got to. There's so much. There's only so much you can do. But you can you when you campaign, they can say anything. Of course, I know they might as well just say free ice cream and ponies for everyone. Michael Hingson  38:07 Yeah, and and that's almost essentially what's happening. And I'm not saying that he'd be a bad governor. I I haven't researched him enough, but the commercials just don't do anything to make me thrilled because he's not saying how he's going to do any of it, and and that's what I really want to know. Speaker 1  38:25 Yeah, I didn't when I when I ran this campaign, I didn't really promise anything that was sexy at all. I said, you know, I'm going to work on a policy manual. I'm going to increase the amount of information and transparency, and it was like nothing that you want to put on a bumper sticker, but I still won. I mean, there were people who were in the race who were promising this and that, and they were going to do this and all this stuff, and somehow I eked it out. Michael Hingson  38:51 Why do you think you won? Speaker 1  38:52 Name recognition, Michael Hingson  38:54 okay, Speaker 1  38:55 and that's and that's pretty much that's a lot of what politics is is is just the the name recognition. You can win on that. I also do have a reputation. I mean, being on council for 14 years and being often called the lone voice of reason, like I said earlier, I'm the one who asked that obvious question. Yeah, and people are in the audience are going, "Well, thank you. Someone's finally asking what what they wanted to ask, and so there was there was that, and and I also, you know, I I do return my emails. I answer the phone calls. I make sure that I'm I'm available. So you know, and I think that that reputation kind of spread itself around that that I would be responsive. It didn't mean that I actually did anything because the you know the powers are really limited. So if someone wanted you know they want to put in a stop sign somewhere, I'll go visit them, and we'll look at the thing, and we'll look at the traffic data, and all this stuff. But there may not be a stop sign there. Still, I showed enough time that I paid attention to them, and I responded to them, and you know, we'll see what we can do. That's the best you can say. Michael Hingson  39:55 And if it didn't happen that there was a stop sign, but there was a good reason for it. I would suspect that you would be the kind of person who would say, "Here's why it didn't happen. Speaker 1  40:03 Right, exactly, and and to explain that for and a lot of people don't understand things like that because it's easy to get defensive with government because sometimes it can be so colossally stupid. Yeah, but but it's just as long as you have that explanation, and sometimes it's it's really it's refreshing because then they hear the answer and they're good with it, so we have a problem here with there's noise on the freeway because they're expanding the freeway, and a lot of people are upset, so they call city hall, but it's not our project; it's the state highway district. So you know, it's like I can do only what I can do, but it's still you know, if you're the only elected official who bothered to reply to them and told them, you know, I hear what you're saying. I'm going to do whatever we can. Sometimes that makes people happy. They may not be happy in the big picture, but at least they got a response. Michael Hingson  40:48 And when you discover something that's relevant, I'll bet you are the kind of person who would then initiate another letter saying, "Here's why it didn't work, or "Here's why it will work. Speaker 1  40:59 Right, and I do follow up. So I did. In that case, I wrote a letter to the governor and said, "You know, is there anything you can do? And then I forwarded the letter on to the person who had contacted me and said, "Okay, this is the best I can do. Let's let's see what he can do. So yeah, Speaker 1  41:14 yeah. Michael Hingson  41:15 I'm I'm curious. You mentioned that property taxes did get lowered once in Cordellane, but nothing. No one ever did anything with that. How come? Speaker 1  41:23 Well, no. It's just we we did. We we kept them. You got you got them lowered. Michael Hingson  41:27 But but why didn't anybody pay attention to that? Speaker 1  41:30 No. Well, see, I'm sure they paid attention to it. We are only one entity on your property tax bill, so there's there's a few. Ah, good Michael Hingson  41:39 point. Speaker 1  41:39 We might have been the the one who kept it down, but the other ones may have kept it up. And then there's all the the formula is really complex, and so it could be that you know their assess property assessment went up, a lot of other things that would have happened that would have affected it. But like I said, I mean we made a big to do about it, saying hey look we worked, we cut the budget. We kept it flat for all you guys, and then no one said anything. But you know that that's it's discouraging, but it doesn't discourage me from continuing to try because I'll always try. Michael Hingson  42:12 You can only do what you can do, but at least at least you're doing it. Yeah. Now, if you want to live in a state where the taxes are very interesting, move to New Jersey, yeah, where we lived, the the taxes every town, every city had its own property taxes. You could live on a street, yeah, you could live on a street where you had a property tax of some amount, and if you walked across to the other side of the street, the property tax would be twice what yours was because the border runs right down the middle of the street. Speaker 1  42:45 That's crazy. Michael Hingson  42:47 We thought it was. Yeah, we thought it was kind of interesting, but we fortunately never had too horrible of property taxes in Westfield. But still, we heard about some other places that had some some horrible property taxes, but you know it's it's what what you have. Speaker 1  43:07 Yep. Michael Hingson  43:08 So you were in the city council for 14 years. What made you decide that you were going to run for mayor? Because you had to do that. You had to make that decision. Speaker 1  43:17 Yeah, didn't want to. You know, wasn't on my on my dance card to like, oh, next step up is going to be mayor. It was more of there was frustration that I had because the the past couple of mayors, good men, good people, but I always wanted to do more. I mean, being on the council, it was frustrating because I wanted a little more leadership out of the center seat wasn't seeing that, and then I worked earlier last year. I called up a bunch of people to see if they'd be willing to do the job. You know, good strong community members who would be provide the leadership and had the name recognition required to do the job, and no one wanted to do it. So I was like, okay, well, I'll I'll see if I can do it. I still have two years left on my council term, so if I lost, I'd still be part of the process. But there ended up being four people in that race, so it was pretty crowded. Which to me, you know, if if you're running if you run unopposed, it's pretty much a sign that people kind of like the way things are going. They're not they're not upset with you. Generally, if you have one opponent, you're considered that you know oh well good you know I get to compete for for the job or someone else is unhappy. But if you have a lot of opponents, it generally means that the public isn't happy with what's going on and they want to see some change. So there were four people in the race. I won with like 38% of the vote, so that's wow, Michael Hingson  44:45 yeah. Well, but clearly you're different than a lot of people. For example, you're a member of the Kootenay County Republican Central Committee, and yeah, and they sued you for defamation. What was all that about? Speaker 1  44:59 Well. So we had an episode here where the first of all the local Republican Party decided that running partisan races wasn't enough; that they wanted to get involved with nonpartisan races. And in Idaho, a lot of the local offices are nonpartisan. So city council is nonpartisan, school districts are nonpartisan. You know, water district, highway district, all these smaller local offices, and we have a community college here called North Idaho College. And the Senate committee decided that they would start to what they call rating and vetting candidates to determine who was the most conservative. And while a lot of Republicans appreciate that and they want to know who the real conservative is. The central committee realized that it was a way for them to exercise political power, because when people would get their recommendations, that would be the person who would win. And so they got power mad, and in my opinion, they hijacked the trustees of our local community college, and pretty much almost ran the thing into a ground. It was the it's the only college a community college in the history of the country that's ever been put on probation for disaccreditation due to board governance. Normally, when you disaccredit a college, you're disaccrediting it because of financial reasons, or something else, but or academics. Never, never has it happened that the board has been so crazy that the the ACL ACCU whatever it is the accreditation agency for community colleges has said, "What we're gonna we're gonna pull away your credentials, and all your students will not be receiving college credit. So, I mean, what what this board did that was endorsed by the local Republican Party, the extremists on the party, they they fired the president for no reason. They they started running up the bills, increasing the athletics budget. The board meetings were just pure chaos. Employees would leave. The local high schools stopped their their co education programs. It was just crazy. Wow! And and a lot of people didn't really understand what was going on. So I did a YouTube channel called Kootenay Rants, and Kootenay is the name of our county. Michael Hingson  47:20 Kootenay, yeah. I said Kootenay. Sorry about that. Speaker 1  47:22 It's no, it's okay. It's it could be either way. Who knows? Up north, they do say Kootenai, so we don't know. But anyway, this really got under the skin of the central committee because I pinned the blame on what was going on at the college on them, which is was justified, and I would not make anything up. Instead, I would just put in highlights from the meetings and say, "Here's what's happening, and here's the crazy stuff. You know, trustees yelling at members of the audience, making fun of them. You know, interrupting people, saying just weird, strange things. I mean, it just-it was odd. It was so bizarre, and so it was easy for me to make these videos. My background is in communications, and I know video production, so I was able to put together these videos on a YouTube channel, and you know, hundreds of people in the county would start watching them, including the central committee that did not like that I was exposing what I consider to be their corruption and their the the fact that I think they were responsible for this and they didn't like that so they accused me of defamation basically mean tweets because I would tweet about them and their nonsense and it was like they they made a big to do out of it because I was running for re-election for city council, so they came to a city council meeting to serve me, and you know recorded it and put it up on the internet and all this other stuff that that was just crazy. But my insurance company fortunately decided to represent me, and they just they thought the the suit was without merit. They don't say frivolous. They say without merit. Without Michael Hingson  49:04 merit. No, yeah. Speaker 1  49:05 And so yeah. And so eventually, now the suit is over, and I figured I would either win in court or it would be dismissed. But the insurance company settled, and I it was against my wishes. I said no. I said don't settle with these people. But the insurance company did settle, and I made sure that, as part of the settlement, that they would not say that I agreed to it, or that I said I was wrong, or I apologized, or anything. No, the insurance company just didn't want to waste any more money, so they decided to settle. They wrote a check. I don't know what it cost the central committee. As a member of the central committee, it has never been reported to the committee how much money they spent on that? Because it's it's pretty much the the Republican Central Committee of Kootenay County is pretty much a tyranny run by one guy and a personality cult, and there are members of the committee. There are some good Republicans such as myself on the committee who do believe in transparency and limited government and all those Ronald Reagan things. But there are these extremists on there who are just nutballs, and so there's a group of us here called North Idaho Republicans who are working to counter their insanity. And we've done a good job, but we need to do more work, and that's the story of the KCRCC. And they sued me for defamation. Michael Hingson  50:21 That's kind of crazy, though. Nevertheless, Speaker 3  50:23 of course. Michael Hingson  50:24 And it's only kind Speaker 1  50:26 of that. I wasn't laying awake. I mean, occasionally someone would call me up and they would say, "So what's the case? What's the what's happening with a lawsuit? And I'd say, "Well, a lawsuit. I said, "Oh yeah, that's right. They're suing me. I mean, it was never really. I was never obligated for it. Michael Hingson  50:39 Yeah. Well, so just out of curiosity, since the Republicans were doing this, where were the Democrats in all of that? Speaker 1  50:47 Well, we don't really have a lot of Democrats. That's Michael Hingson  50:49 what I was wondering. Yeah, Speaker 1  50:51 and so and and I always used to joke. I would say that the the Democrats, the Kootenai County Democrats, are looking for a new meeting location, and if anyone has a spare closet, got it. You let them know. No, they're they're all they're all very nice people. Michael Hingson  51:05 Yeah, Speaker 1  51:05 but they're they are in an extreme minority, and unfortunately, they they do try. So last time they had a body for every seat up for election, but they don't really come close. And it's a lot of it comes down to name recognition, but you also have a lot of red blue state refugees who come here. You have a lot of COVID refugees who came here, and so Idaho is very red. Kootenay County is very red, and it would take a tremendous amount of effort to to have a Democrat win here. We do have Democrats in the legislature, not a lot, but we do have them, and the the National Democratic Party is unwilling to spend a lot of money here because they know they're going to lose. So that's what I hear from them. But they are they are generally nice people. I mean, like you said, you if you wanted to vote for me here and you're a Democrat, I'd happily accept the vote. It's a nonpartisan position. We don't deal with those big divisive issues that you know that you you see on the news. Yeah, we're pretty much community-minded people, and I appreciate anyone who is. I do fight the KCRCC because I don't see them as community-minded, and that's one of the issues. Michael Hingson  52:18 Yeah. Well, it's it's unfortunate that that people are that way, but I I see it all too often in so many different ways. I mean, we face it with even in the blindness world with so many things where there ought to be major improvements and there ought to be defenses of the civil rights of blind people. For example, some of the rideshare programs don't do a lot to train their drivers about the fact that in reality they're obligated to take blind people with guide dogs, and oh, there's there is a fair amount of that, and it's and and the companies aren't willing to do anything about it, and we have to keep fighting it, which is just too bad. But there's just so many stuff, and there are so many people who just have these hidden agendas, or they just what it really comes down to is we don't want anybody telling us what to do, Speaker 1  53:09 right? Michael Hingson  53:11 And that's what it really comes down to. So, do you find that that religion gets into any of it at all, like with the conservative Christian movement or any of that, Speaker 1  53:24 there well, there's I do not like the politicization of the church. Michael Hingson  53:29 Yeah, Speaker 1  53:30 my favorite quote on that is that politics poisons the purity of the church. So I think we should keep the separation of church and state as much as possible, but there are you know politically motivated, politically active pastors, and I just I I think that's that's not the proper role of religion. I know that that there's kind of a battle going on in the far right about you know how much religion or how much that should should should be involved in politics in the public arena. In fact, there's a little across from the Costco up here. There is a little yard sign in front of some business that says "Vote Bible, and I always think that's kind of. I mean, I understand what the sentiment is, and I would always want to think that the people who we elect are good moral people. You know, Adam said that our Constitution is best suited for a moral people. I don't believe that means that there's morality in the Constitution. I believe there's morality in people, Michael Hingson  54:32 right? Speaker 1  54:33 And we do want people who have good ethics and good morals in public office, and it's very obvious when that doesn't happen. But I do not think. I think the purpose of our Constitution and the First Amendment is to ensure that we all have the the right to enjoy whatever religion we want, and we don't want to pick favorites. And so, what I see with a lot of these people is that they want to pick a favorite. Michael Hingson  54:55 Yeah, Speaker 1  54:56 they they not only want to pick the first religion, but they want. Everyone to go to the same church and the same service and sit in the same pew. Yeah, and that's not going to happen in any church. It's not going to happen in any denomination of any church. And then, and see, that's the other question: is if you know if you're going to insist that this is a Christian nation, it's like okay, but which denomination is it? Catholic? Is it Protestant? Is it Mormon? I mean, I you know you tell me because it's just going to be this incredible knot of worms, which is why I think the genius of the founders was that you know the the clause about religion is is two things: it gives you the freedom to exercise your own religion, and it also restricts the government from declaring that there's a religion. Yeah, and I think the far right kind of misses that when they when they take the message of we like moral people in office, but to dictate the morals to someone else is wrong. Michael Hingson  55:52 You know, I and it was Tolstoy who once said the biggest problem with Christianity is that people don't practice it, and I I see that so often. It's it is so unfortunate, but it is Speaker 1  56:03 there. Yeah. So that is a tough one. Michael Hingson  56:07 So if you could change one thing in the world, what would it be? I'd Speaker 1  56:12 get rid of the internet in a heartbeat. Specifically, social media. I think the the problem with social media is it amplifies our immaturities, and that is a huge issue. the The solution to that is to make the the publishers responsible for the content. So, in other words, Facebook could be sued for anything that someone puts on Facebook, and that would terrify Facebook, but it would terrify them to the point that they would actually regulate themselves and and start dialing back. I mean, I can say 20 years ago or so, when I whenever I was first on Facebook, I would go on there and I would see my kids, and they'd be playing a ball game or they'd be over at a friend's house. You'd see birthdays, vacations. It was just kind of like it was a social thing. You go on there now, and it's politics, and it's like this person deserved to be shot, and it's just-it's so-it's so extreme, and it's so rude. And you know, some of the stuff they said about me is not very nice, but I think that if we're going to solve one problem in the world, we really need to dial back all the animosity that's on the inter

Sometimes the hardest setback becomes the start of a far better life. I speak with Jeff Brown, an international photography business mentor whose path began with dyslexia, school struggles, and a fishing fly business at age 16. Jeff shares how military photography, personal branding, and business skills helped him build a successful creative career. He also opens up about losing everything through a failed pub, rebuilding his mental health, and creating a global photography mentoring business. His story shows how persistence, clear goals, strong branding, and the courage to change direction can create an unstoppable life. Highlights: 00:01:38 - How dyslexia and school struggles shaped Jeff's drive to work for himself. 00:05:58 - The first sale that showed him entrepreneurship was possible. 00:14:50 - Why passion and effort mattered more than early photography skills. 00:35:49 - How branding and marketing helped grow four photography businesses. 00:39:06 - The business failure that forced Jeff to rebuild his life. 01:01:49 - Why clear goals, strong branding, and steady action create growth. About the Guest: Jeff Brown is an International Photography Business Mentor, Best Selling Photography Business Author, Public Speaker and President of The British Institute of Professional Photography. Also working for The International School Photography Conference Team he has delivered sell-out courses and workshops around the world. Jeff works closely with photographers from all niches and photographic backgrounds having a real passion to help them grow their online brand and achieve their goals.          Jeff first dipped his toe into entrepreneurship at the age of 15 while still at school, selling handmade fishing flies to local tackle shops to boost his pocket money. After leaving school at 16 he set up his first full-time venture, a mail-order fishing tackle business. His fishing tackle business came to an end 7 years later, shortly after Jeff enlisted in the Royal Navy where he went on to serve as a military photographer and intelligence analysist.            Following nearly 10 years service he left the armed forces to set up his own photography company, and eighteen months later had a successful six-figure wedding photography company and a commercial photography business, then going on to open a separate school photography business and a Boudoir Makeover studio turning over 1,000 boudoir and model shoots per year.            In 2014 Jeff decided to follow his dreams of owning a country food pub by investing over £120k of his own money into a pub venture, which turned out to be his greatest ever failure, losing his entire investment and racking up £60k of debt in just 12 months while at the same time going through a divorce.           After suffering from depression in 2015, he changed direction again and developed an online photography business mentoring program, making it his mission to help and inspire photographers worldwide to market their businesses better.                                                Part of Jeff's major focus and teachings are in the areas of Goal Setting, Brand Message, Consistency, and Website Content including the new AI and AEO search on Google, and also his favourite social media platform which is LinkedIn. It's essential to have a mindset for success and a clear path to follow. No business can truly succeed without goals, direction, a powerful brand and a positive mindset to achieve.        Jeff has written 4 internationally best-selling photography books and recently published his first travel book – ·      The Photographers Missing Link-edIn ·      The Ambitious Photographer's Journal          ·      Help My Photography Website Needs More Customers        ·      The Photographer's Gratitude & Mindset Journal       ·      Plan Your Ultimate Northumberland 250 Road Trip   He writes for several photography magazines and associations and is also a brand ambassador for OM System (Olympus Cameras), The British Photography Awards, Studio Ninja, The Societies of Photographers, and the UK and US Brand Ambassador for The Shutter Studio App.         Jeff lives in the beautiful scenic county of Northumberland, England. He's a keen traveller having visited over 60 countries so far, as well as being an outdoor enthusiast, motorbiker and loves getting out in nature when ever he can. Ways to connect with Jeff**:** Website: www.thephotographersmentor.comFacebook: www.facebook.com/JeffBrownThePhotographersMentorLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/thephotographersmentorAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jeff%20Brown/author/B09M76J1XK About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi again, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. You know what's really fun about this podcast is we get to meet all sorts of people who talk about all sorts of different kinds of things, and today we get to talk to a gentleman from England, Jeff Brown, and Jeff, among other things, is an international photography business mentor, best-selling photography business author, he's a public speaker and also the president of the British Public Institute of Photography. I think I said that right. Jeff Brown  01:36 British British Institute of Professional Photography. British Michael Hingson  01:40 Institute of Professional Photography. Got to say it right, but anyway, and and all sorts of other things. He's an adventurous kind of person, as you're going to learn in the course of the day. So, Jeff, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset, and we're really glad you're here. Jeff Brown  01:55 Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Michael Hingson  01:57 Well, I'm glad to do it, and I have a visitor in the studio today, my cat Stitch, who is monitoring this, and I'm sure that if she has any opinions, she's going to voice them. But we'll see. Stitch is a wonderful kitty. She's almost 16 years old, and we we love having her around. But anyway, so Jeff, why don't we start by you telling us kind of maybe about the early Jeff growing up and some of those things, and we'll go from there. Jeff Brown  02:25 So growing up, so I grew up in the northeast of England, and I was born in 1970. So I'm 55 now, and back in sort of late 70s, early 80s, the northeast of England was a was a bit of a grim place. It was gray. It was there was a lot of poverty. It was mainly coal mining and shipbuilding, and it was the old sort of mentality of you know you go to school, you study hard, you get a job, you stay in the job for for your life, you retire, and then you're dead. That's it. Yeah. So, for some reason, that didn't really, really appeal to me. And I used to love reading. I read loads of books. I was obsessed with books. Got into books from a very early age. Into sort of fantasy type books, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and stuff like that. But it was only when I got into maybe probably about the the junior schools I'd gone through the infant school I got to about eight or nine year old that I realized there was something the matter with me in the fact that I'm really struggled with with school I wasn't very good at it years and years later, I found out I was dyslexic, but I couldn't read out aloud. I had real problems with numbers. Numbers seemed to always look the wrong way around to me, and I got an instant dislike of school and an instant dislike of authority. I had I just I couldn't wait to get out of it, but I was quite creative when I got into fishing, I was good at making fishing flies. I got into photography, and that sort of gave me more of a creative mindset. Where I thought, well, I don't want to work for anybody else. I don't want to be told what to do. I want to try and make my own direction. And I decided that I was going to be self-employed or you know start my own business at the age of 14, Michael Hingson  04:23 what did your parents think of your your kind of independent mindset or entrepreneurial mindset? Because you must have voiced it along the way. Jeff Brown  04:31 Well, I did, yeah, and funny enough, you know, I said I had a real dislike of school. I mean, I actually not not overly proud of it, but I was expelled from school at the age of 16, kicked out of school because I got into quite a bit of trouble. I was I was very rebellious. I really disliked it with the passion, and I left school with zero qualifications. So I didn't I didn't pass any exams. I filled every exam that I actually bothered to turn up for, but to. It matters worse. My dad was a college lecturer, and my mum was a teacher. So, so obviously it didn't go down well with with having two parents who were in the education system. But they backed me 100% They were they they could see that I was struggling, but dyslexia wasn't really a thing that was talked about back. Yeah, and yeah, my my dad put forward at the time one and a half 1000 pound to help me get onto the you know get the equipment I needed and the the office space to start my first business. Michael Hingson  05:34 So it was pretty supportive, Jeff Brown  05:36 very supportive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and and I think it helped as well that my first business was making fishing flies and tying and exporting fishing flies to fishing businesses around the world. But my dad was keen on fishing as well, so he had he had an attraction to the business. Michael Hingson  05:54 Okay. Well, I know that my wife had lots of relatives in England. A lot of them were from the Cornwall Mosel area, and a lot of them, of course, were very much into fishing. Jeff Brown  06:05 Oh yeah, yeah. I know Cornwall. In fact, I spent a year in Cornwall on on Navy search and rescue, and that would have been 1919 98 I think it was then very beautiful place. Michael Hingson  06:19 I've not been. I'd love to go sometime. We'll have to figure that out. Jeff Brown  06:23 Yeah, it is. It's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. Michael Hingson  06:26 So you started this business. So you were basically 15 when you started the the business, which I think is kind of interesting. That's at a young age, and of course, by the time you were 16, as you said, you got expelled from school, which had to not be very very much fun. Jeff Brown  06:44 Yeah, I mean, well, to be honest, so the the starting of the business, I used to I used to go into the fishing tackle shops at weekend myself and one of my friends who who I used to go fishing with, and he was good at making flies. He was called Phil. Obviously, I'm called Jeff, and we decided we were going to create a business called PJ Flies. And one weekend, we we went into one of the local fish and tackle shops, and we were buying some some bits and bobs to make fish and flies with. And the business owner, the owner of the shop, said, "Look, says, look, if you bring me some flies down next week, if they if they if they're any good, I'll buy them off you. So we walked into the shop and took these fishing flies in the following week in a little presentation box. And I remember him individually taking each fly out at a time because he said, "How much how much how much are you going to sell me them for? And I said, "Well, I'll sell them for 10 pence each. So he was taking them out, and I was counting up in my head. And at the time, my pocket money was, I think, was three or four pounds a week, and I came out of that shop with a 10-pound note. So it was double what I was getting paid off my pocket money, and it was such a great feeling. So that was my first ever sort of dip into entrepreneurship, earning money, and and he said, and the last thing he said as I went out the door, he says, if you can if you can make the same amount next week or even double, bring them back and I'll buy them off you. So the following week I went back and made 20 quid. Michael Hingson  08:18 Wow, what goes into making a fly, I'm not a fisherman by by training or anything, so I don't know a lot about fly fishing. Jeff Brown  08:27 Yeah, so it's all feathers and so feathers and furrows, and it's all held onto the hook with with a very fine thread, like what's called a gossamer thread. It takes it takes a while to learn. So I was taught by an old guy who was a really good fisherman, and he he had a caravan on the same caravan site that my parents had that they used to go on holiday on, and because we we we never used to go abroad in those days, all the holidays were spent in England, and that he he saw that I was getting into fishing, and he came and taught me how to how to tie fishing flies, which was great. Michael Hingson  09:06 Yeah, and of course, the whole idea behind the fly is to attract the fish, right? Jeff Brown  09:10 That's right. Yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  09:13 So that they will, if you will, take the bait. Jeff Brown  09:16 Yeah, yeah, totally. And the funny thing was, I was yeah, I used to love fishing, but I don't need fish, so I would either put you know put them back in the in in the river, or I'd I'd give them away to to members of the family. Michael Hingson  09:30 Wow. Well, and suddenly fortunes changed, and there you were making flies and selling them. Jeff Brown  09:37 That's right. That's right. Michael Hingson  09:39 So how long did you do that? Jeff Brown  09:42 So we we got we got a proper sort of business premises in 1986. So when I was I was 16 year old, and we applied for a grant with the then Prince's Trust, which was run by Prince Charles, who's now King Charles. And we were the youngest people in in the UK to be accepted for a grant. They bent the rules and they give us the grant under the age of 18. So we got the grant at 17 year old, and then shortly after, we were in a business sort of a business community, a big a big workspace with lots of offices with other creative people in, and shortly after the the center had opened, about six months after, the the the manager of the center came up and says, "Well, look, we'd like to we'd like you to make a box of salmon flies, but a really good box of salmon flies, all the best ones, and we'll pay you. And it's going to be a presentation box for a special guest who's coming to officially open the business center in a few months. But we can't tell you who it is. And anyway, it turned out two months later it was it was Prince Charles. Speaker 1  10:59 He Jeff Brown  10:59 came to visit us, and he was presented with a box of fishing flies-the the flies that we tied from. Michael Hingson  11:07 Wow, that was pretty cool. So you got to meet him. Jeff Brown  11:11 So yeah, we got to meet him. He talked about fishing. He talked about fly tying. He said he'd he'd been bought a fly tying kit for Christmas one year from his wife, who would have been Princess Diana, but he couldn't get away from get away from it. It was too. He found it too complicated and too complex. So he says, "I really admire that you you know that you guys can can tie the flies. So so yeah. So it was nice. It was nice to meet him. It was nice to be able to do that presentation box, and we had that business till I was 26 so Michael Hingson  11:45 10 years, Jeff Brown  11:46 nearly 10 years. Yeah. Michael Hingson  11:48 Now, have you met him ever since Jeff Brown  11:52 then? I haven't met him, but I have met other members of the the royal family because I was a my next stage in business, so my next stage in life was to become a a military photographer. I met a few members of the royal family in my capacity as a military photographer. So I went from so one avenue being creative, which was the fishing flies, into sort of another avenue being creative. And the funny thing was, I'd never had any intention of John in the military. None of my family were in the military. My dad had done his national service, and my granddad had served in the in the navy during the Second World War. But just on a whim, one day I happened to be walking past a military careers office, and I thought I'd pop in. I love cooking. I thought, oh look, I'd seen a picture on the window where he could train to be a military chef. Yeah, okay. So I went into enquire about being a chef, joined as an aircraft engineer, and then transferred across to become a military photographer. And funny enough, like I said early on, that I hate authority and I hate being told what to do because that came from a hatred of hatred of schools. Michael Hingson  13:10 A school, right? Jeff Brown  13:11 But I believe that the military was different because people say, "Well, you know, if you if you hate authority and hate being told what to do, why the hell did you go and join the military? But the military was very different in the fact that I put up with the I put up with the authority because the military give you adventure. It wasn't a nine foot nine to five. It wasn't a routine job, you know. So it give and I love excitement. I love adventure. I love the the idea of every day being different. So so I was happy enough to put up with military life, and I did that for nearly nine years. Michael Hingson  13:49 Well, so did you find that the military respected your creativity as you grew at being a photographer, and so you were a photographer, so that you were allowed to, to to be creative and do the things that you wanted to do, or did you find that there was just as much authoritarianism, if you will, and they kept telling you what to Jeff Brown  14:15 do? No, no, they were very good at being creative. Funny, the the military photography branch-it's only a small branch. It's about 80 people in the in the in the navy photography branch. So by comparison to all the other branches of the navy, it's tiny, and it's always also a very sought after branch. So basically, have to wait till somebody retires or somebody, you know, gives up their position that you can actually request, and I just managed to get in at the right time where somebody had left, and I applied, and I got accepted and went on to their training course, and their training course is is quite intense, 26 exams in six months, but. All the people who run it are really passionate photographers, so they're all about developing your own creativity. Yes, there's rules and regulations to follow, but it was very different than other other avenues of the armed forces. And then, you know, your average working day, you were you were given a lot of freedom. You were given a brief for a job, but then quite often you would just go off and design that job the way you wanted, you know. Michael Hingson  15:24 But why did you, since you, I guess you, as you said, joined as an aircraft engineer? Why did you decide to look at photography? What what attracted you to that? Jeff Brown  15:35 Because I didn't. Well, first of all, I didn't realize you could be a military photographer. So it was, and you can't join as a military photographer anyway. It's what's called a sidewards entry branch. You have have to have served three years in a in a another part of the armed forces before you can apply. And to apply to get into the military military photography branch, you have to pretty much do it on your own merit. So you've got to build a portfolio up. You've got to do all the application yourself, and they also look at your. It's not like the way you react to discipline, the way you think on your own two feet, sort of thing. So, funny enough, when I went through the interviews and and they looked at my portfolio, they said that my my work was pretty poor, but they loved the way I thought, and they loved the way I was driven, and would get up early and go out and do stuff. This is, you know, it's the it's the passion and the the willingness to learn. We can teach you all the other stuff, but you you know you you're showing that willingness and and going that extra mile. That's that's what got us in and and got us to be accepted into the into the branch. It wasn't my skills as a photographer because I was that was pretty useless. Pretty new, Michael Hingson  16:49 yeah, Jeff Brown  16:50 yeah. But you know they they developed that. Michael Hingson  16:55 So the the whole idea of going in and learning to cook and being a chef kind of went by the wayside, huh? Jeff Brown  17:00 It did, yes. But I still, I still, I still love cooking to this day, and I was still very passionate about it. And I always had a dream of, you know, one day owning a a pub or running a food pub, Michael Hingson  17:12 right? Well, and you know things happen, but you you clearly are an adventurous sort of person that you even chose to do all of this, and that-that's in of itself, I think, admirable to you know to do that. So you you became a photographer, and so what kind of things did you do during the time you were in the military from a photographic standpoint? Jeff Brown  17:40 So we would do everything. We do everything from portraits of sort of admirals in uniform, official portraits. We do big presentations and awards. We do a lot of PR photography. So we'd be we'd be tasked with with a concept or an idea, or being told something is happening, or we want to promote this, so they might say, right? We've got an aircraft carrier coming into your area. Can you come up with some ideas to to sort of really promote it? Something that look really exciting. It'll encourage people to to join the military because one of the one of the things military photography branch, it's it's about PR. It's trying to get pictures of the military into the into the newspapers in a positive light. So you know, young young men and women go, "Oh, that looks great! I'd love to join, and it serves them an absolute fortune in in in advertising. So so that was that was a lot of the stuff we did, we create concepts and ideas, and quite often the concept and ideas led to having a lot of fun. You know, I'd say like, well, what have I got at my disposal? And then an admiral might say, well, what do you need? I said, well, I need a few helicopters. I need some fast patrol boats. I need some marines on on on ribs lent over these these you know rigid inflatable boats all camouflaged up with their cam cream on and their rifles and they'll be in front of the in front of the the aircraft carrier then we'll have the the helicopters flying in the background and all this was was so basically controlled by us, so we would have headsets on. We'd be talking to the, talking to the the pilots. We'd be directing people, and those shoots probably cost 10s and 10s of 1000s of pounds to to put together. When you think about it, but it was great to see some of the images come out. And in those days, when I first started doing it, we were shooting a lot of the stuff on film, so we didn't have the the the the benefit of seeing the images instantly, as in you know with digital photography. Michael Hingson  19:51 I was going to say much less digitally editing it. It was all on film. Jeff Brown  19:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  19:56 When did it migrate over to be more digital? Jeff Brown  20:00 So we were still we when I was in training we we were using digital but still preferred you to to do a bit more on the film side of things Michael Hingson  20:08 higher quality Jeff Brown  20:10 yeah and and they also I think for like an archival purposes for the idea of have negatives and hard print Speaker 2  20:18 yeah Jeff Brown  20:19 but then you know towards like the 2004 two you know 2003 2004 Then they were starting to embrace digital fully, and and you know do away with all the the film. Michael Hingson  20:33 Wow! Jeff Brown  20:34 And obviously there is the cost aspect as well. You know because you with film it costs every time you you press the shutter button, you know you can you can take a lot more images. But I suppose it does it does make you a bit more of a lazy photographer. Michael Hingson  20:49 Well, I I suppose in some senses it can. It just depends on how disciplined you are. Well, you seem to be a pretty disciplined kind of person, and so you you worked at that pretty well, and I can. I can appreciate that. So so when did you start doing photography for the military? When did you enroll in the military? Jeff Brown  21:11 So that was 1997 Michael Hingson  21:14 Okay, so you were what 2526 25 Jeff Brown  21:19 Yeah, 2026 Yeah, yeah, 2627 yeah. Michael Hingson  21:23 Well, and the the thing about photography or or any skill like that that is is pretty unique and pretty new for you is that you had to really develop the knack to doing it, but you obviously also had to have a lot of understanding about things like, as you said, PR and all that. I mean, some of that just had to be a little bit more natural, or just you observed so much that you realized the value of it. And as you pointed out, having the the whole photography branch in the military had to be incredibly much less expensive for the military, no matter what you wanted them to do, than them doing PR in other ways because it was all done internally. Yes, yes, you had to have helicopters and military people and all that other stuff, but they didn't have to pay the company to go out and, or didn't have to pay it much to go out and do the photography because you're the company. Jeff Brown  22:29 That's right. That's right. And also, some some of the jobs were required a certain level of vetting that they couldn't bring a company in unless those people were vetted. To you know, like on, I did quite a few photography shoots on nuclear submarines, which you you can't enter a nuclear submarine base unless you're you're vetted to a certain level. Michael Hingson  22:51 Right. Now that brings up a point. So let's let's go back to that. So going into a nuclear submarine base and so on, and and doing photography. What what was the purpose of pictures for that? Since it had to be pretty cleared and must have been somewhat classified. Jeff Brown  23:11 Well, sometimes some of the the shoots on board the submarine would be like award ceremonies. So okay, yeah, you know, people getting medals or achievements, and actually getting a photograph from receiving their award from the captain of the submarine. But then sometimes we would have PR photographs of of the the submarine sailing, and we'd be on speedboats going down the lock, photographing the submarine. Michael Hingson  23:41 But what you were not doing was taking pictures of things that were so classified that they didn't dare show them to the public or whatever. Jeff Brown  23:49 Yes, yes, Michael Hingson  23:50 yeah. Which which makes sense. Speaker 1  23:57 If you enjoy unstoppable mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  24:30 So you you did that, and so you clearly found a niche to to do and to to work at, and obviously loved it. Jeff Brown  24:43 I do. I mean, it took it took a while to get the confidence. I'm quite an introverted person, so where I love taking photographs, and you know, it's easy to take photographs of things and objects and landscapes and that sort of stuff. It's. It's quite hard when you don't have a lot of confidence and you are quite introverted to start directing people and telling people what to do, especially when you had to direct, you know, entire ships, companies, or groups of 4050, people to do a a group shot at the awards ceremony. So that that was something that took a bit of getting used to and put me out of my comfort zone to to become a bit more sociable and a bit less introverted, and also direct people from behind the camera. Michael Hingson  25:31 So you you became a director, Jeff Brown  25:35 I suppose. Yeah, you do. In some senses, Michael Hingson  25:38 anyway. Jeff Brown  25:38 Yeah, yeah, and from from another point of view, I sudden realized that you know you might not like directing people, or you might be really nervous about speaking to people you've never met before and telling them what to do. But quite often, the people on the other side of the camera are just as nervous as you because they don't like having their photograph taken. They feel awkward, so you know part of your job as a photographer is to put people at ease and make people feel comfortable. Michael Hingson  26:03 Yeah, and I think about it as a public speaker. I keep hearing all the time that one of the top fears that people have is speaking and standing on a stage and speaking. And I and I finally realize that that's because we're conditioning people to think that it's scary, but the fact of the matter is that, and I still believe this to this day, audiences want speakers to succeed. Unless you're just a real jerk, audiences want you to succeed, and I would think that that some of that same level of confidence goes into what you do as a photographer. You are-they want you to succeed, and the people who are nervous about you taking their pictures and so on. Your job, as you point out, is to kind of help make them feel more comfortable about Jeff Brown  26:55 it. Yeah, and and you, you know, on from your point of view, you know, you you want somebody to love the picture? Michael Hingson  27:02 Yeah, Jeff Brown  27:02 you want someone to go, oh wow, you know, like actually take away their their dislike and awkwardness of having a photograph taken, and you know it's it's quite rewarding when you see somebody go, oh wow, I didn't know I could look that good, you know, because you've you've directed them, you've posed them, you've helped them feel more relaxed, and they see themselves in a different because it's it's quite it quite often it's not that somebody always looks awkward or you know they don't take a good picture as people say oh don't take my picture I don't take a good picture you know it's the fact that they've never been directed they've never they've always felt felt uncomfortable and awkward so it comes through in the the final image because they don't look relaxed. They don't look natural. They've got this fake smile. They look uncomfortable. Michael Hingson  27:49 I know. For me, I've I've never worried about that. Of course, being blind my whole life, I never really cared a whole lot about pictures. Yeah. So I love to pick on pictures all the time. So you know, for example, people say that a picture is worth 1000 words, and I just point out, yeah, but it takes a whole lot more memory. So, but but but I I appreciate pictures, and I've learned a lot more about photography and appreciating photography ever since September 11th. And part of that was my guide dog Roselle at the time, who became a real camera ham hound. She loved to be in front of the camera, and there was one time we were on a Larry King show on CNN, and you know his shots are and the photographers and and the and everything on the show is basically front like from the chest up, and and so on, and they take pictures. So one day we were going to be on the show, and they made a a little platform that Roselle, my guide dog, could lie on, and they said, "Okay, put her up on there, and I did, and she laid down, put her head between her paws, and that was it. And the director came like about a minute before the show started, and he said, "Isn't there anything you can do to get her to react more and to be a little bit more involved in the show? And I said, "Are the Klieg lights on yet? And he said, "No. I said, "Just wait till you turn the lights on. Everything will change. The lights came on. She lifted up her head, started blinking her eyes and flashing her eyelashes, smiling and licking her chops, and just having a good old time. She loved the camera. It was so funny. Jeff Brown  29:39 Yeah, I can't get. I can't get my dog to sit. He won't sit in front. He won't sit in front of the camera. He's a working Springer Spaniel. He will not stay still for two minutes. And there's something about it. Every time you look, you pick up the camera. I think he knows that you want to take a picture, and he turns his head away. He looks the opposite direction. Michael Hingson  29:57 Yeah. See, Roselle was exactly the opposite. Knew you wanted to take her picture, and she was going, "Bring it on! She just absolutely loved it. It was so funny, and and and it was it was a blessing. But it it as as we talked about it, as I talked to photographers and other people when we dealt with different interviews and so on, I grew to appreciate the value of pictures and what it was that they were trying to get, and it didn't take any work really to get Roselle to be involved in that. It didn't take a lot of work to get me involved with it, but I gained a greater understanding of it. So I certainly value the fact that there's there's a lot of reasons for taking photographs, although I also like audio input and other things like that that I'm going to see. But still, it's it's great that we have this technology, and nowadays, of course, because it is so digital, it makes it so much easier. Jeff Brown  30:59 It does. I think I think obviously there's you know everybody's using photographer now. Everyone walks around with a camera in their pocket, which is you know effectively a smartphone, and the quality of the images that you can take on a phone are fantastic. You know the you know the the resolution, the color saturation, the the look absolutely amazing. But sometimes I think people forget to stop and appreciate the moment. So everybody is more, you know, getting the picture taken, sticking it onto Instagram, onto Facebook, and also we have all these digital memories. But not many people are printing pictures out and putting them on the walls like we used to in the 80s and 90s. You know, family portraits, and I think that is a big thing that photographers need to be to be sort of reinventing and encouraging people to to enjoy the wall art, personalize the home, have a picture on the wall that brings a smile to your face every time you see it. Because if you take it on your phone, you you enjoy it for a second, and then it becomes a memory, and it goes in. I looked the other day. I've got 14 and a half 1000 pictures on my phone. Yeah. So, and I only ever see them, you know, seconds after I take them and I post them on Facebook, and then maybe a year later when a Facebook memory comes up and reminds me, oh, this is what you were doing this time last year. Michael Hingson  32:20 Yeah. Well. Well, and I understand that, and I, I, I also understand what you're saying about lazy photography because, as you said, you take the picture, you look at it, and it's gone, and you don't necessarily do all you can to make sure that the picture is looking as good as it as it can look, and sometimes we just rely on the automatic zoom and other things like that to make the picture look good. But the bottom line is that ultimately we're in control of it and really should make the picture as good as we can make it. Jeff Brown  32:54 Yeah, I mean that was that was what we were taught in the military right at the very beginning. And as I say, you know, was starting out on on on film cameras. It was get it right in the camera. You know, get it right in the camera. It'll look a lot better, and it'll save you hours of time in the dark room. And then there's a tendency now for photographers to think, "Oh, that'll do. I'll just sort it out in Photoshop afterwards, and which again takes time. And as a photographer, time is money. So yeah, yeah. The better you can get the composition and the and the way a photograph looks in the camera, then the less work you're going to have to do afterwards. Michael Hingson  33:35 Yeah, which makes perfect sense. And so I appreciate that. Well, so you were in the military for 10 years, and what made you retire from the military? And also, what kind of skills did you learn that you then took away from the military? One of them had to be accepting authority a little bit more, but I'm being sarcastic. But still, what what kind of skills and so on did you learn, and and did you take away, and and why did you even leave the military after 10 years? Jeff Brown  34:07 So, so being a military photographer, I was a military photographer, and there was a new a new sort of breed of like a new discipline that was coming into into the into our area into the the photography branch, and it was called IA, which is an intelligence analyst, and they believed that photographers, probably rightly, had a real attention to detail and a keen a keen eye for spotting things, and they were so they recruited intelligence analysts from the photography branch to analyze intelligence imagery, satellite imagery, reconnaissance, and then collate this information with other intelligence services. Like Lacher on I six and JCHQ, so so people on the ground, you know, and and military listening outposts, and so I got sent to work. So I did my intelligence course, and I got sent to work for with the intelligence services for about two and a half years now. While I was while I was doing my job as a military analyst, intelligence analyst, I started getting people coming into my office and saying, "You're a military photographer, aren't you? Yeah. Would you photograph my dog? Can you can you photograph my daughter at her birthday? Do you do weddings? Can you do my my my partner's wedding and stuff like that? So started doing a little bit of stuff on weekends, and then soon realized that there was actually quite a good bit of money being a photographer. So that was it. So that that set me on the path of right. I'm going to get out the military. I'm going to start with my own business. I'm going to go back to being self-employed again, but this time using my skills as a photographer. And yeah, I had good photography skills. I had other skills that the military had sort of drummed into me, which was you know timekeeping, organization, attention to detail, and that would work brilliant with a wedding because with a wedding you've got to organize people, everything's got to be on time. You've you've got to have that attention to detail, so started doing weddings on weekends, and then I left, and now decided to go into partnership with another military photographer who was working at the same the same base as me, and was also from the same the same area, the same the same city. So I left first because he was married with two kids. Alif first to set the business up and get the business bringing in money, and then about six months later, the business was bringing in enough money for him to put his notice in and and come out and and join me full time in the photography business. So and then it just skyrocketed from there. We ended up having four different photography businesses, Michael Hingson  37:03 pretty impressive, huh? Jeff Brown  37:05 It was good, but I think you know a lot of the lot the stuff that we did is when we left the military is you get a resettlement grant to resettle you back into civilian life to to to get you ready to work for other people, but obviously we were going to go self employed, so we we spent this resettlement grant of 7000 pound on marketing and branding training. So I got 7000 Kev got 7000 So we spent spent a lot of our money on understanding how to run a business, understanding what brand was all about and brand concept and and marketing. And it wasn't necessarily our photography skills that helped us succeed. It was the skills of actually understanding how to run a business and how to market our brand, Michael Hingson  37:49 which also goes a little bit back to understanding PR and just as you said, understanding all about business, which is which is pretty cool. Speaker 3  37:57 Yeah. Michael Hingson  37:59 Well, as you as you did that, how easy was it for you to integrate back into society and become disciplined enough to run your own business? Because when you were in the military, you had other people who were making a lot of those decisions, but you had to learn something along the way or figure out something along the way that allowed you to truly run your own business. Jeff Brown  38:22 To be honest, I felt I felt quite excited to be going back to it because, obviously, you know, from sort of 1415, year old, I'd had I'd had my own business, and that that was my first my first ever job. You know, working for myself with fish and fish and tackle business, and I sort of realized early on that yes, I don't have a boss, but ultimately the business is the boss because the business demands from you all the time. It demands how much work you need to put in, and if you don't put the work in, then you don't get the money. But the other good thing about running your own business is you're not on a fixed wage. You know, you have that ability to make a lot more money, without having to be promoted or or impress somebody else, you know. So for some people, it doesn't work. Like my girlfriend always says, she doesn't think she could do what I do because she doesn't like that uncertainty. Of you know, because every business is ups and downs, ups and downs. You have low moments. You have high moments, but that's life in general, isn't it? And I think you've just got to have more high moments than low moments. But yeah, I love it. I don't think I could ever work for anybody else. But a lot of, I think I'm unemployable. I don't think I can. I don't think I could go into a normal job. But a lot of those high Michael Hingson  39:40 moments are also moments that essentially you create. It's your mindset. That's Jeff Brown  39:45 right. Yeah, Michael Hingson  39:46 because you know, like failure. Everybody talks about failure. Well, you know, you're going to experience failure in your life, and I have gotten to the point where I tend to react and say there really is no such thing as failure. Because failure seems to be an absolute-you screwed up, and that's all there is to it. And the reality is, it's not. Failure isn't really the issue. The issue is okay. You made a plan. Something didn't work right. The question really is now: Where do you go from here? How do you fix it? What have you learned from what happened? And I think that's really the issue. Jeff Brown  40:20 That's totally that's totally right, and you know, but I made a a decision back in 2014 So you said, you know, I love cooking, and had the photography businesses, which which were both doing very well. They were both they were all super successful, you know, bringing in the money, and I decided, wouldn't it be nice to buy a really, really beautiful traditional country pub, one with log fires, you know, in the middle of the countryside, maybe a two, 300 year old building, and and run my own pub? So that was that was my idea. So so I found this this beautiful little country pub in Durham, in the northeast of England, and it was like a picture postcard country pub that looked beautiful. It actually had two log fires. It had, I think, it was about 300 year old. It had wooden beams, everything, and so I fell in love with it. I I bought the lease on it. I plowed 120,000 pounds of my own money into it, and within 12 months, I'd lost all that money. I was a further 60,000 pound in debt, and I couldn't see any way out. Because you say, you know, like failure. Sometimes people think failure is that's it, that's the end. They can't see past it, and stupidly, I decided that that was it. I couldn't go on anymore, so I tried to drive my car off a bridge. I was, I was drunk at the time, but you know, luckily I didn't. I just damaged the car. I didn't damage myself. I woke up the next morning feeling utterly disgusted with myself because my daughter at the time would have been seven year old. and I realized I needed to get out the pub, and I needed to change a different direction, which I did. So I ran away, and I came to the countryside where I live now in Northumberland, and moved away from all my family and and my friends, about an hour away from all my family and friends to restart my life again, and I spent probably about six months listening to positivity books and audio books, and and trying to rewind my mindset, and then take a new direction. And that's when I got into the idea of because I was in the middle of the countryside, I could run an online business training photographers in marketing and branding, and you know how to how to promote themselves on the internet, and I could do that with anybody anywhere in the world who was a photographer. So that was my idea, and that's what I went for. And you know, looking back at it, 11 years on from that, it would be 11 years in March when I tried to take my own life, and I thought that was that was the biggest worst failure I'd ever have. It was the best failure I ever had because I've never been as happy. I've never been as stress free. My work takes me all over the world, speaking and meeting photographers. I have an absolutely amazing community. No day is the same because I'm on all different time zones, speaking to different people, and and I just love it. It's stress free, but you know, if I'd stayed at the pub, that wouldn't have been stress free. So, Michael Hingson  43:33 so what happened? That why did the pub fail? Fail, or or why didn't the public pub succeed? And what did you learn from that? Jeff Brown  43:40 So, well, first of all, probably I probably fell in love with the idea of the pub, but I probably didn't do enough research. Now, funny enough, it was in an old mining village, my coal mining village, that was very, very much based around if you weren't born and bred in the area, you didn't fit in, so first of all, I think fit into the village very well. But the profitability in the pub trade is is very hard, especially if the pub, if the building is owned by a brewery and you've got to buy your beer direct from the brewery, it reduces the profit margins. And I just think everything that could go wrong in that 12 month did go wrong. We had staff stealing offers. We had a couple of sabotages to the pub, a couple of really big bills that wasn't expected, equipment going wrong and equipment failing, and yeah, the costs just spiraled out of control. Michael Hingson  44:38 Just a lot of lack of research, Jeff Brown  44:41 yeah, yeah, yeah, Michael Hingson  44:42 and I would suspect that you would say that because of that, and because you realized all that, you learned. Jeff Brown  44:50 I learned, yeah, yeah, I, I totally learned, and I think you know that I, I, I fell in love with the idea of it. I fell in love with the building, and probably, probably didn't research it. And also, you know, yeah, I was great at marketing. I was great at business, but I'd never run a pub before. And yeah, it was probably a bit of a. I'd probably sort of trying to run before I could walk. In that, you know, might have been better off going and working for somebody else and being a manager or working in a bar. And you know, the the day I opened the pub, I'd never even pulled a pint before. Never stood behind a bar and served served a drink. So, Michael Hingson  45:28 yeah, and that's that's an art in of itself. Jeff Brown  45:32 Yeah, yeah, that's right. Michael Hingson  45:34 I used to when I lived in New Jersey and worked in New York. I used to go to a restaurant called Virgil's Real Barbecue, best barbecue I think in the country, and so if you're ever in New York, it's Virgil's. Anyway, they had opened a facility in Las Vegas. Also, they opened a restaurant in Las Vegas, and so last week when I was at the Consumer Electronics Show, I went there, and one of the things I had heard early on when they I heard about them opening the restaurant several years ago, was that the people who opened the restaurant before they could open it had to go spend six months in New York at the original Virgil's, learning everything about it, so that they could make this restaurant and the food be the same as as what they experienced, because they wanted Virgil's to be the same in both places, and they did. And I can say that, from my perspective, at least, they did a really great job, and they learned from that, which was exactly what you wanted for the people in Las Vegas to do, and they survived the pandemic, and it's still open. So when you're in Las Vegas next time, Jeff Brown  46:47 yeah, I'm there next week. So yeah, I'll have to Virgil's. Yeah, I'll check it out. Michael Hingson  46:52 Virgil's real barbecue, best ribs in the country. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it, everybody. Well, that's cool. So. So, do you believe that things happen for a reason? I mean, a lot has happened, and of course, the pub closed and and all that. Do you believe that things happen for a reason? Jeff Brown  47:13 I do, and and you know now I I think one of the things as well when you get to that point where you you don't believe there's there's there's any way out, and and you know you you get that alone, you get depressed, but you you feel that you've got to take your own life. You are right at the very bottom. I think for you to go to the very bottom and then come back up again, it changes your mindset about stuff. And I I never get stressed. I am a very, very chilled out person. If something goes wrong now or something fails, I just go. Well, it's happened for a reason. Maybe something better is around the corner. Maybe it's the universe trying to direct me in a in a different path. You know, and and I think the less you live, the more you live by that mindset, the more it opens you up to other opportunities. Yeah, keeps you living it. You know, you're not living in the past; you're living in the future. It it was for the first six months coming up here 11 years ago. It was hard to move away from that failure in my mind. I kept playing it over and over again, but you know, playing it over and over again wasn't going to make that failure with the pub any different. The outcome had happened, and what I needed to do was focus on the future, get back together and get my myself back together, both mentally and also establish a new business and a new way of life. And that in itself was a a massive learning curve, but for the better. Michael Hingson  48:44 Well, and and the reality is, it it certainly has made a big difference in your life. And the fact is that, again, it goes back to failure isn't the end all, and failure is is probably the wrong way to put it. It's a learning experience, and I think that it's so important to do that. I am like you. I refuse to feel stress. I've been through too many experiences in my life that that caused stress, and I've learned that there are always ways to to deal with things, and so it's important to not let the stress overwhelm you. I wrote a book that was published in 2024 called "Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Dogs About Being Brave, Overcoming Adversity, and Moving Forward in Faith. And moving forward in faith is part of it, but the whole issue is we focus on our lives on so many things. We think we need to control everything, and the reality is, we only control probably much less than 10% of all the things that we experience, but we worry about 100% of everything, and that doesn't help. And so, it builds up so much fear and causes so much stress. And if we would just focus on the things over which we really can control, we would be much better off. Jeff Brown  49:59 Saying that, you know, after leaving the pub, because my mindset was very, very delicate, and I had to build my my mental health back up, I decided to stop watching the news. So I used to used to get up and go downstairs and put the news on TV and have my morning coffee and and listen to all this negativity, all this drama, every single morning, which I've done for probably 40, you know, well, at least 30-five years, and and that was it. I've never watched the news since. I don't watch any live TV. I don't watch the news. People say, "Well, how do you manage? So, well, somebody will tell me something, but most of the time, half the stuff that people get worried about never actually happens. And if it does happen, quite often there's nothing you can do about it because it's the other side of the world. Michael Hingson  50:53 Well, even if it's in England, you don't have control over it, so why worry about it? Now, I watch I watch the news, but I do it because I want to get the information. But I won't worry about it. And there's so much that happens. But I feel that that at least there is information to be gained by watching the news. But what I had to learn somewhere along the line is don't take it personally because you don't have any control over it. And there are so many things that that go on, but the the trick is not to let things you don't have any control over really affect you to the point where you get nervous and stressful again. Jeff Brown  51:34 Yeah, yeah, and I think that you know the the same thing can be put into social media. You know, people say social media is negative. Social media is dangerous, and it depends how you react to it and what you engage on. You know, in my own social media, I follow a lot of photographers, a lot of people who talk about adventures and motorcycle rides and travel and nature. So my news feed is filled with a lot of positive stuff. And if if I see something negative or see something sensationalist, what I do is I don't unfriend that person. I just unfollow them, so I don't see their content again. Michael Hingson  52:09 Yeah. Jeff Brown  52:10 But from from the plus side, you know, social media has bought me more opportunity than anything else, and and effectively for free. And I've traveled traveled a lot because of my work. I have over 100,000 followers across my my social media platforms, and social media brings me customers, brings me clients. It helps me sell books, so there is a lot of positivity to it. I suppose it. The negative is only if you engage in the negative, then you will you'll find the the negative aspect. Michael Hingson  52:40 Yeah. Well, and the reality is that again, it's it's how you approach life, and you've clearly learned a lot about how to approach life in a much more positive way. You've developed, well, we'll call it an unstoppable mindset. You've developed a mindset that allows you to go through life and do the things that you need to do, and focus on the things that you can, and you leave the rest of it alone. Jeff Brown  53:06 Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Michael Hingson  53:08 Which which makes a lot of sense. Well, for you, you you talked earlier about the fact that you have dyslexia, and you've been with dyslexia for most of your life, or maybe all of your life. It's interesting. I've talked to so many people who didn't know that they had dyslexia when they were in school and so on, and experienced a lot of the same frustrations and kinds of experiences that that you've experienced. And somewhere along the line, they finally discovered that they they had dyslexia. How did that when you when you finally realized that? What did that do for you? How did how did that really affect you? Jeff Brown  53:52 Well, funny enough, I I can remember a moment where I must have been about eight year old, where a teacher and you know, back in the 70s, teachers weren't as kind, weren't as kind to to schoolchildren as they are now. You know, and and this this teacher singled me out in front of the class and and told me that I was stupid and I wouldn't amount to anything because I kept struggling with this reading and my numbers. And at the time, I I was I was chubby. I had ginger hair, so I didn't have a I didn't have a lot going for us in in the popularity front, and also being you know the the stupid one in the class. So I found it really negative, and I found it really really personal because I didn't realize that I was dyslexic because nobody knew what dyslexia was now, and when I got to my mid 30s, and I went to train to go into the work with the intelligence services and be an image analyst, I had to redo my English and maths all level qualifications that I should have passed at school, but obviously I didn't. I had to do them through the military, and that was when I found out I was dyslexic, and I didn't actually know what dyslexia was until until I made up on it, and then it all made sense. You know why why I'd struggled for so long. I have my own workarounds. I know what my I know what my what my issues are. I mean, now with with with my work, there's so much out there that helps you as a dyslexic. You know, you you have you have spell checker, you have read aloud where you might not be able to see see it. You know, so quite often I'll do a social media post, and I'll I'll get Word document to read it out aloud so I can hear it. But if I if I if I read it back, I can't see the mistakes I've made because my mind doesn't process that. I know when I write a number down, I probably write write it down the wrong way. So if somebody gives me a phone number and I phone it and it's dead, I just change some of the digits around and figure Michael Hingson  55:58 it out. Do you agree? Do you use technology like Dragon, naturally speaking, to dictate? Jeff Brown  56:04 I tend, I tend to. So I started using only in the past six months. I was quite, I was quite sort of against AI, and well, not against it, but everybody was jumping on the chat, ChatGPT bandwagon, and I always tend to do something different than everybody else does. Six months ago, I jumped on a piece of software called Claude, and because I've because I've written five books now, I've written four business books, and I've written a travel book. I also had a lot of content to give to Claude to feed Claude, and then I had transcripts from my YouTube channel, and and then I gave them some do's and don'ts about you know tone of voice and language, and you know I would never say things like this, I would never say things like that. Told them that you know don't be spelling color without a U. Don't put a Z in sympathize because not American English. It's English, English, and the funny thing is, like over the over the past few months, he's he's pretty much replicated my tone of voice, so I can get Claude to write me a social media post, and then I I just tweak it slightly, and I'll make some changes, and then when I've written that social media post, I give it back to Claude and say, can you note? Can you identify the changes that I've made from what you've originally made, Michael Hingson  57:24 right? Jeff Brown  57:25 And take them on board for the next one, and then you give a summary of the changes. And it's yeah, it's it's it's quite impressive. It's quite scary as well because he he says things like, "Am I becoming more Jeff? Yeah, yeah, you are a bit. Michael Hingson  57:42 Well, the other thing is there are programs and technologies, as I mentioned, like Dragon, which is a a technology that you can get where you dictate, and it recognizes your voice, and it will then convert what you say directly into digitized form, which is pretty cool. I use Dragon when I write a fair amount, and and so that that goes back far earlier than AI. Although I'm sure that there are AI, there are AI components to Dragon naturally speaking today. But it's a it's a great program, and it makes writing a lot easier. So rather than typing on a keyboard, I'm speaking, and it is essentially taking what I write, and it just completely digitizes it by recognizing my voice and then putting it out in in in a digital form for me. I can use it with Microsoft Word and other things like that, Jeff Brown  58:41 yeah. And then do then do you listen back to that and then give edits on on what has been on what is being done? Michael Hingson  58:49 Yeah, I can. I just go back and read the word doc, and but it's but it literally is is transcription of what I say, so I can then go back and say, okay, let's fix this, or everything is fine, and I can go even go back and figure out what's misspelled if there are things that it misrecognized. But it works pretty well. Jeff Brown  59:12 Yeah, tech technology is is is fantastic. It's also got it's it's it's I suppose worrying sides for creative people, where there's a lot, a lot of creatives that potentially AI could could really damage their careers going forward. So it's it's interesting to see which direction it's taken. You know, work with it, but then also be aware of it. Michael Hingson  59:40 Yeah. Well, you still need to take control. Jeff Brown  59:43 Yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  59:45 So, what's the most unusual or interesting country that you've ever visited since you do so much traveling? Jeff Brown  59:52 I've been to North Korea. So, 2019 I went to North Korea for New. New Year's Eve to celebrate New Year in in Pyongyang Square with another 100,000 North Koreans. There was only 12 Western tourists in Pyongyang at the time, and we were there for 10 days. So yes, I've I've done North Korea, which it took a bit getting into getting into North Korea. It's not as easy as just you can't go on and book a holiday. He can't choose a hotel. It all has to be done through a third-party agent, and it took about six months to get the whole thing to together. But it was-it was very interesting. It was a completely different than every anything I'd ever experienced before, and it's also supposed to be one of the safest countries you can travel to because you you're followed by the North Korean secret police everywhere you go, even inside buildings, when you're in restaurants, when you're in bars. That nothing could ever happen to you, but the North Korean people would never dare to come up and speak to you anyway, you know. But the the thing with North Korea is everything is everything is orchestrated. Everything is set for you alive and there in advance, so you only ever see what they want you to see. You never see the other side of North Korea. I've also been to Chernobyl, where the the last was that was absolutely fascinating, and last year I went to Transnistria, which is one of these countries that doesn't exist. It's not officially recognized by by the UN, and that was like stepping back into the 1980s Speaker 1  1:01:38 That was, Jeff Brown  1:01:39 but everywhere I've been, you know, I think that that's t

What if the future of higher education depends less on old systems and more on curiosity? I speak with John Frost, vice president of marketing and enrollment management at Doane University, about his path from basketball dreams and local news to student recruitment and educational leadership. John shares how storytelling, liberal arts education, strong relationships, and applied learning can turn natural talent into career skills. We also explore AI in education, college costs, financial aid, trade schools, and why higher education is changing rather than fading away. You will find a hopeful look at student success, lifelong learning, and the human support that helps people become unstoppable. Highlights: 04:58 - Why student opportunity matters more than campus image. 12:22 - How one conversation can change a student's future. 16:51 - Why respectful disagreement keeps curiosity alive. 24:55 - How applying knowledge creates real impact. 36:28 - Why AI should support learning, not replace it. 55:12 - How higher education will keep shaping future leaders. About the Guest: How one storyteller–turned–strategist is transforming the way America thinks about college. Meet JOHN FROST, the enrollment innovator on a mission to rebuild faith in higher education. As Vice President of Enrollment Management and Marketing at Doane University, a four-year public university, John is rewriting the playbook on how colleges attract, inspire, and serve the next generation of learners. Before he led campuses, John led with a camera, as a reporter, editor, and photojournalist covering real human stories that shaped communities. That same instinct for truth and connection now drives his work in education, where he helps institutions move beyond numbers and focus on what really matters: student purpose and success. With nearly two decades of experience across Metropolitan Community College, Southern Illinois University Carbondale, and Doane University, John has guided organizations through shifting markets, declining enrollments, and cultural change. His leadership has sparked bold conversations around student engagement, workforce readiness, and the evolving value of a college degree. John's voice bridges two worlds, media and academia, helping audiences understand not just why college is changing, but how it can thrive again. Ways to connect with John**:** - Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/DoaneUniversity/ - Instagram link: https://www.instagram.com/doaneuniversity/ - LinkedIn link: linkedin.com/school/doane-university/ - X link: https://x.com/DoaneUniversity - YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/user/DoaneCollegeNE - Website link: https://www.doane.edu/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. Today we're going to have a lot of fun. Today we're going to talk to John Frost. John is an interesting kind of guy. He's a higher education strategist. He is the vice president of marketing and enrollment management at Doane University in Crete, Nebraska. And before we started, we were just talking about the weather. We're recording this on the 10th of March, and he said he's in the about 60. We're 60-eight, going up to 70-three here, so maybe spring is finally coming. We can hope. I remember once when we were still living in New Jersey. It was May of 2001. We thought the spring was here, and we got a bunch of snow one afternoon or one evening in New Jersey. Yeah. Well, the next morning, so where I I took the dogs out when we lived in New Jersey, we had to I had to actually walk down a hill, and the next morning, some of the snow started to melt, and that night the whole hillside was as slick as glass because the ice there the snow froze, so it was ice. John Frost  02:10 Oh my goodness! Michael Hingson  02:12 And so what I did was not walk down the hill. I went. I put my snow boots on, and I and I made it down once and came back up. I said I'm not doing that anymore. I had a long flex leash, and I put the long leash on each dog separately, and let them go down the hill. And I stayed at the top to make sure that they didn't slide. John Frost  02:30 It sounds, hey, I like that. It sounds like you're a great strategic person because you came up with a game plan to allow them to go down up and down the hill. Michael Hingson  02:39 Yeah, I certainly wasn't going to go down that hill with him anymore because that was too scary. John Frost  02:43 Yeah, that's dangerous. Michael Hingson  02:45 Well, John, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're John Frost  02:49 here. Hey, I'm happy to be here, and thank you for allowing me to be on your platform and taking time out of your day. And I'm looking forward to the great discussion that we're going to have. Michael Hingson  02:57 Well, and taking the time out of your day, we appreciate that too. So it's it's 2o'clock there. So by the time we're done, it's going to be time for the afternoon coffee break. John Frost  03:06 Hey, hey, good call, great call. Michael Hingson  03:10 Well, tell us kind of about the early chon growing up. Yeah, that's fun to start there. John Frost  03:15 Yeah, that's a great question. So one of the things I always like to share with people is that when I was a young man, I wasn't planning to go to college to work at a college. That wasn't the game plan. If anything, just like a lot of young, especially young boys growing up in North Carolina, we want to grow up and play basketball. And I thought I was going to go to the NBA, and we all know the greatest basketball player of all time is Michael Jordan. He's from North Carolina, so we all dreamed of that dream. But you know, I played sports growing up. I was fortunate enough to to get an athletic scholarship to go to college, and went to college. Didn't really know exactly what I was going to do already. Well, I finished at Wayne State College, and got my bachelor's degree there. But you know, while I was there, I figured out like, okay, I'm not going to the NBA. What I'm going to do, and so somebody, somebody was like, hey, you know, John, you don't mind, you know, connecting with people, having conversations. You don't, you're not, you're not afraid to talk in public. Maybe you should think about going into broadcasting, and so that's what I started to study. And so I was fortunate enough to get a communications degree, and then I was from that point I went and worked in local news for about four years. So I was able to be a reporter and a photojournalist and an editor, and was able to connect with a lot of people and tell a lot of stories, but the unique thing about doing news is that the only opportunity you have with the story is just to share it. Right? You can't really impact it. And so, one of the things that I appreciate about higher education is that when I transitioned to higher education after four years in local news, I realized. I had the ability to impact the story, so it wasn't just about sharing the story of the individuals that I serve. It was about making their stories a little bit better through education, and so I started my career in higher education as a recruiter, worked my way up, worked at you know for profits and private schools and state schools, colleges and universities, and and now I'm fortunate enough to be the vice president at Doan University, and I've been here for about three years. So that's kind of like a little snapshot of my story. Michael Hingson  05:28 How long were you in broadcasting? John Frost  05:30 For about four years. About four years, Michael Hingson  05:33 sir. And then you went to the schools, huh? John Frost  05:35 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Michael Hingson  05:36 Wow. So you went. So where did you where did you start, and what kind of colleges did you did you go to all over the country, or what? John Frost  05:46 Yeah. So what's funny is when I started my career in higher education, I started out as a recruiter, and I was working for a for-profit institution. And here's a unique thing: the school that I worked at was in a strip mall, so you could go to Sears and look at a lawnmower, and you can go to Verizon and get a phone, and you can go to the Slurpee shop and get you a slushie, and then you come talk to me about about college. And one of the things that taught me about working at a college in a strip mall was you really had to get to understand the students, and it wasn't about all the glitz and glamor that you may think about a traditional college. It was still about the opportunity. It was about the dream, and that's what I learned when I first started out as a recruiter: is being able to help somebody to make their dream into a reality and having those great conversations. Michael Hingson  06:38 How did you learn the art of storytelling? What what is it that that caused that to happen? Because it sounds like it's kind of natural for you, but did you learn it growing up or what? John Frost  06:49 Well, you know what? That's a great question. One of the things I like to share with people is the art of dialog, right? Just discussion, engagement, and growing up as a kid in North Carolina, we didn't have too much, but we always was able to run our mouths. Right, we was always able to talk. We was always able to talk about what we did or what we didn't do because, as you know, back in the day, we didn't have camera phones. We didn't. We didn't have all this technology that captured everything that we did. And so, when you would when you would you know get somebody's attention, you had to hold it. You couldn't just say, "Hey, I played basketball and it was fun. It would be like, "Hey, I played basketball and I did this move, and this guy tried to guard me, and I blocked the shot and I did this. Or even if you went down the street because your mom wanted you to go get a you know a gallon of milk or a carton of eggs, that was the story behind it because you got chased by a dog and and or whatever. So I think the the the art of storytelling is just something that's natural to the human spirit. But then also not just talking about your story, but being able to understand somebody else's and and being able to connect with them because if you talk to people long enough, you'll find a connection. Michael Hingson  08:02 Yeah, did did your parents encourage storytelling, or did they think about that at all? John Frost  08:07 You know, that's a great question. My dad was probably one of the greatest storytellers I ever met. He was, I mean, the stories that he would tell me about how he grew up, the things that he experienced. I mean, even though he may not had a photo, even though he may not have had like video, he can get you to where he was at, and you could and you could see it. I mean, my dad was a was a guy that could tell you a story, and he'll tell you about hey, because he grew up around a bakery, and he would tell you how the bread smelled. So no matter what the story meant, he would always start off well. You know, I grew up by a bakery, and this is what it smelled like. And and and you would get yourself to that point. And so I would say, if I if if my ability to tell the story, I would say I got that from my dad. Michael Hingson  08:54 Yeah. So it it was something that you learned. Now, are there other kids in your family, or just you? John Frost  09:00 No. So I'm fortunate enough to have. I'm the youngest out of four, so I have an older brother. I had an older sister, and I have another older sister. But unfortunately, she passed away probably like 16 years ago. So, yep. But so it's just three of us now. But but yeah, you know, I was the youngest, so I was the one that's always causing trouble. Michael Hingson  09:24 Well, gives you something to do in your free time. Yeah, exactly. Did did the other two also grow up to tell stories and and appreciate John Frost  09:35 it? Yeah, they was they grew up to tell stories. They couldn't tell them as good as I could, though. But no, my brother he he spent 25 years in the military in the Air Force, and was a Persian linguist, and so he has some really cool stories about his travels in the military. He still works for the military right now as a civilian, and my sister. She works in behavior science. She helps with social work and things like that. And my oldest sister, she helped run her own business before she passed away. Michael Hingson  10:10 Now you were in the military for 24 years. John Frost  10:12 No, my my brother. My brother was okay. I wasn't Michael Hingson  10:15 sure. Okay, great. Yeah, my brother. That makes more sense. Time. Yeah, yeah. No, John Frost  10:18 no. He he decided to take that route. I didn't. Michael Hingson  10:20 Cool. Well, but you're going to claim credit for being the best of the three in storytelling. John Frost  10:26 Absolutely. There you go. Michael Hingson  10:29 And and how would they react if they heard us talking about that? John Frost  10:32 It don't matter. They're not on the call, so it's all good. Michael Hingson  10:37 Good point. Can't can't argue with that. So you. you, so you were in broadcasting for four years, and then you went into to different things in higher education. Why did you end up going into higher education? You know, why didn't you continue in broadcasting, or what happened? John Frost  10:57 Well, you know, I love broadcasting. Don't get me wrong, and it was it was. But I always say broadcasting is a is a very unique career path. You always running and gunning, and I worked here in Lincoln, Nebraska. So you know you doing snow stories, you doing Husker football, you doing things about the budget, things about whatever the government the governor is saying, and at some point, I know for me personally, it was a guy that I ran into who who done what I did when I was in news for 30 years, and one of the things that he had shared with me was don't get jaded, don't go to a story and it's just another story. Don't forget the the human approach. Don't forget the people that you're talking about. And he said the mistake that he made was again he did this for 30 years. He said he he got he stayed in the business too long, that it was just another day. It was just a job. And when he shared it with me, that made me have a lot of time for reflection and thinking about okay, so what is it that I really want to do? Even though I love the broadcasting field, it was always on the go, which I loved to do. I said, "Is there something else for me to to do? And I didn't know anything about higher education, you know. To be honest with you, sir, I did not. Other than I went to college, that's about good as it was. I didn't understand the business. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know the business of higher education and things like that. But anyway, you know, I remember back in the day, I just was curious and looking at some different options, and I happened to apply for a recruiter job. And when I went in for the interview, they said, "Hey, you know, your job is to have conversations with people and try to get them enrolled in school. I was like, "Well, that's simple enough. I don't have to be out in the cold, you know, covering snow stories anymore. And I'm from North Carolina, so I don't have to worry about covering Husker football no more. And then, you know, I get to really make an impact. So that's all it was. It was just, you know, I was still a young man. I was still looking to find my way, and I was fortunate to find higher education. Michael Hingson  13:04 So, when you did recruiting, what what's a favorite story and success that you had at recruiting? John Frost  13:10 Oh, thank you! I love when people ask me this question. So, I always share in my colleague Andrew's in the room with me, helping me do this podcast, and he's probably heard this story like 13,000 times, but you know, Michael, the best story that I like to share is the story when I was a first, and I started out as a recruiter, not really knowing what I was doing. But I had a conversation with a young lady. She was a single mom, and she was a single mom, and we went through the whole process of talking about her goals and her dreams and how we can help, but then as we was kind of finishing up, you know, kind of getting towards the end of the process of the conversation, started getting teary-eyed, and so my first thing is like, oh my goodness, what's going on? Why is she getting teary-eyed? Like, what did I say? What did I do wrong? And then you know, I paused there, and she looked at me, and she said, "You know, you're the first person ever tell me that I can accomplish this goal. You're the first person ever tell me I can do this. And right then and there, sir, that's when I realized what the opportunity I had in front of me is that she went on to get her degree and went and get a master's degree, but with whatever was going on in her life, that was a that was a game changer, and I was happy and fortunate enough to be a part of that. And so that's when I realized what I get to do for recruitment, and I never forgot about that. And and when people ask about why we're successful in doing the things that we're doing, I think you never forget that that it's not just a job. It's an honor. It's a privilege to get to change people's lives through education. Michael Hingson  14:47 You know, going back to what your your friend in the the media for 30 years said, I I agree with that. I have been a speaker now for 24 years, and my belief is it's it's. Never about me. It's about what I can do to be involved and enhance what goes on at an event where I'm invited to come and speak. And I I spend time asking the event organizers what kind of messaging do you want? What can I do? How can I best be of of help to you in making this event as successful as possible because I know there are so many speakers who think it's all about them and and it's not it's it certainly isn't for me so I hear what you say about him saying don't ever let yourself get jaded because that I can see how it could happen, but but I've always just believed that's that's not the way to go. You know, we've got a lot of things going on in the media, and in in our country today, and I talk to so many people who say I don't even watch the news anymore because it just upsets me and so on, and and I say, look, one of my basic philosophies is: don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can. That doesn't mean you're not aware of the other stuff going on, but you don't have to let it affect you because you're not going to be in a position to really control it. Actually, you can once every four years, and that's at the ballot box. But John Frost  16:16 yeah, Michael Hingson  16:17 but but the bottom line is, you can you can still watch the news, but you can choose not to let it affect you and drive you crazy, and and I think that's so important. And you know, all of the all of the presidents lately have all done things that were productive, and they've done things that weren't productive. And you know, we can't. I I I love to say I'm an equal opportunity abuser, which is why we don't talk about politics much on the podcast. But you know I remember so much when the when Barack Obama was about to be inaugurated as president, and I was watching the Letterman show one night, and and Letterman was bemoaning the fact that it's going to get boring around here. We're not going to have a president to pick on anymore. We got a good guy coming in, so you know you knew where he stood. But you know we can't we can't tell the jokes. Well, you know that didn't last very long, but that's okay. But we have control over what we let affect us. It doesn't mean that we don't need to be aware, but we can control whether we allow it to affect us and bother us or not. And I think that's part of the whole art of conversation because we're in a world where people don't want to talk to each other. If you don't believe what I believe, then you're wrong, and and that's just not the way to do John Frost  17:39 it. No, I agree 100% and that and that's one of the things I like to tell people about the how important a college campus is. It's one of the few places still on the planet and in our country where you can agree to disagree, and it's okay. It's called class, right? Yeah. And so, and and you can have different conversations. You can you can share different perspective. The one thing about I think sometimes when we leave college that we forget is that we forget the ability to still be curious, right, and still want to learn and still want to understand. It's not about being right; it's about getting it right. And so I think that's one of the most powerful things that happens on a college campus is that you still are somewhat not forced, but you encourage to engage with people from different walks of life for different perspectives and things like that. So, really good point, and I think it just feeds into what we do here on a college campus. Michael Hingson  18:36 Do you find that that's true across colleges that people are still able to to participate in the art of conversation? John Frost  18:44 Yes, one of the things that one of the things that I've been fortunate enough to do, especially in my role, and I've done it at every school that I worked at, is that I like to sit in the classroom. I like to go to the classes to see what's going on, and I'm telling you, and it never fails. I mean, there's a lot of opinions and thoughts about the future and about the current generation and the future generations, but man, their thought patterns, their ability to kind of have different discussions and conversations. I mean, it's 10 times better than it was when I was that age because they do have access to so much information, so they they can construct a really great argument. One of the things that you see in the classroom is them being able to know how to learn how to deal with disagreement, and so that's been taking place. But yeah, I think the art of conversation is still profound, and I think it's still being encouraged in our classrooms by our faculty members. Michael Hingson  19:44 Isn't it great when you're in a classroom or you're either involved or observing a conversation, and someone just comes up with something incredibly-and I don't mean this in a bad way-but unusual or profound that you never thought of, and maybe the other people hadn't thought of. That's the whole issue with thought patterns, and people just come up with unique things that make you go off in different directions. John Frost  20:07 Yes, yes, it's a beautiful thing. Michael Hingson  20:09 Fun, yeah, John Frost  20:10 fun. It's a beautiful thing. That's what I say. It's a beautiful mind, right? I mean, it's it's that's what we should be doing, right? I always say we're not here to to do this on our own. We're here to to do it together in different ways by conversation, by engagement, by agreeing to disagreeing. Sometimes when somebody disagrees with you, it challenges you to think a little different to make sure what you're saying is: Do you really believe that, or you just saying what you think you know, right? And so I think it's a beautiful thing, Michael Hingson  20:40 and I think it's great when professors contribute to that and make you think in different directions, and you don't even need to know what what they actually think about whatever. Although I'm sure that that usually comes out as as time goes by. But still, if they make people think, then that's a good thing. John Frost  20:59 Yes, yes, Michael Hingson  21:01 it's so important to do, and I think it's important that that all of us do that. I know I had an academic advisor who spent lots of time with me. He was the dean of physical sciences, actually. So I'm not quite sure why I got Dr. Rhinos. He was the discoverer of the neutrino, but I did, and and he he and I had a lot of interesting conversations, and I hope I challenged him too. But he certainly challenged me in terms of some of the ways that that I thought about things, and sometimes we agreed, and sometimes we didn't necessarily agree. But what a what a neat guy, and and it's so great to have people that that basically are in their own way philosophers in whatever they do. John Frost  21:47 Absolutely. Speaker 1  21:51 If you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show, your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  22:24 So, what did you do after recruiting? How long did you recruit, and what did you do after that? John Frost  22:30 Well, I mean, I was fortunate enough to to always get promoted and move up, but I'm always recruiting. I always tell people I'm always selling because we're always selling the opportunity of education. I don't, whatever role that I may have, if it's a director or if it's a assistant director or vice president, I feel like the most important role that I have is being an educational advocate. At the end of the day, I know a lot of people have their opinions about higher education or about education in general, but the one thing that I always challenge them with is that education is one of the still one of the real resources that still can change people's lives. It's it's still one of those things. People say, "Well, well, why should I do this and why should I do that? Because it works. You're looking at it. If I mean, if it wasn't for higher education, I probably wouldn't be here. I don't know what I would have done, but because of higher education, just like I mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, it provoked me to think differently about my own skill set beyond just athletics. It was about some of those soft skills, and and hey, John, you naturally don't mind conversating with people and and and talking. Like I didn't know you can get paid to talk. You know what I mean? Like I didn't know that was an option. That wasn't on the bingo card. So, but if it wasn't for education and having those conversations, as we as we talked about, I wouldn't have known that that was an option. And so, at the end of the day, I mean, I'm just a country kid from East Winston, North Carolina, who wanted to be a basketball player. Instead, I turned out to be a guy that's an educational advocate that probably did more in this role than I ever would have done by shooting a basketball. Michael Hingson  24:15 Couldn't get Michael Jordan to come and give you a few pointers, huh? John Frost  24:18 Nah, he he didn't have time for me. You know, maybe he can do that to my sons or somebody, but now he ain't have time for me. Michael Hingson  24:24 Well, you know, that's that's okay. You could have always you could have always gone off and tried to get Magic Johnson or Larry Bird. John Frost  24:31 Yeah, that's true. That's true. But I'm a Mike guy. I'm a Mike guy. Michael Hingson  24:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and whatever. That's that that works well. So you you've always been promoted. You said you've been at Doane for three years. Where were you before that? John Frost  24:47 Yeah, so I was fortunate enough to work at College of St. Mary, which is the the undergrad program was for all females, and the graduate program was inclusive of everybody. So I worked there for a few years, and then before. There, I was at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, in Illinois, and that was a great experience as well. And then several other places, like I said, I worked in community colleges, and and then also some private schools throughout the Midwest. And so, been a lot of different places, learned a lot. Every school is different, but they also the same. That's why I tell people because they're the same because they all are trying to do the same things and trying to help people get their educational credentials and opportunities. But they're different in how they go about it. They all have their own character. They all have their features and benefits, and they all have all have their own unique stories. And so, again, it it it ties into our discussion about stories because every person that walks one of those university halls are going to be able to have be part of that overall story of that university. Michael Hingson  26:01 I like one of the things that you said. You learned a lot. You you are always learning, and I think that's so important because the reality is you never know when a new nugget of knowledge will come and be profound and hit you right in the head, and you take it and run with it. But learning a lot is so important. John Frost  26:18 Yes, yes, and and I will piggyback on that is, you know, and something that I try to tell the people I serve and also my kids, you know, information is power. It's power, but information with application allows you to have impact, and so it's great to have the information, but if you're not applying it, then it's not going to be useful, right? Yeah. So even though we all are learners, once you learn something, the question would be, how will you use it moving forward? Michael Hingson  26:49 Yeah, and that's and that's an important part of it. It isn't enough to let it build up inside of you and have all this information if you're not doing something with it. What good John Frost  26:58 is it? Absolutely. Michael Hingson  27:00 And and information and knowledge changes over times. Things that maybe 30 and 40 years ago people studied are so commonplace today because there's so many new things that you know we we evolve. John Frost  27:14 Yes, yes. I always tell people, you know, 40 years ago they used to smoke in airplanes, right? Yeah. At some point, somebody figured out that wasn't a good idea because they got new information. Right. So I agree 100% to what you said. Michael Hingson  27:30 I think one of my best best examples of information is for years the movie Airplane wasn't shown on airplanes, and I flew on a flight once, and then they showed it. I was going, I can't believe it, but they're showing airplane on an airplane. That was great things people do, but but yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah, for for years people smoked on airplanes. They had a non-smoking section where I always sat, but still, it's great that there's not smoking. Although they still haven't totally done away with liquor on airplanes, and I've I've seen some people who've gotten pretty exposed to having a number of drinks on an airplane. I was on a flight with one guy. It was a morning flight, actually. We're flying from Ontario to Dallas, and I had gotten upgraded, so I was sitting next to this guy. He ordered a double vodka tonic, and he had nine of them. But by the time we got to Dallas, John Frost  28:26 oh wow! Michael Hingson  28:27 And I'm oh wow, my gosh! I don't know how he got off the plane, but he did. But I'm just, I guess the body adjusts. But I didn't even have one, you know. I'm whatever. Oh John Frost  28:39 my goodness! He must. He must be either either really excited or really nervous, one of the two. Michael Hingson  28:43 I don't know, one of those something, but it was pretty fascinating because he just kept ordering them, and and the other part about it was they kept bringing them. So, wow, yeah, ah, well, the world is a funny place. John Frost  28:58 It is. Michael Hingson  28:58 So tell me a little bit about Doane College, and and I know it's a liberal arts college. So tell me about that. But tell me about Doane. John Frost  29:05 Yeah, Doane University. Doane University. Michael Hingson  29:08 I said college. I'm sorry. John Frost  29:09 No, no worries, no worries. We've been around for 153 years. You don't. You don't Michael Hingson  29:14 sound that old. John Frost  29:15 That's a good one. And we have undergraduate programs. Have about 30-five undergraduate programs. Education was what was built on, was built on again educating the community, educating future leaders, and that's one of the things with our president of the university is that we build leaders. That's one of our mantras that we that we stand on. At the same time, we have opportunities for online, in person, hybrid. So we have a lot of different modalities. We also have graduate programs within business and education, leadership. In addition to that, we have Open Learning Academy. Which that that platform is built for students that may even go to other schools that are looking to take additional courses to get into medical school or some type of additional schooling, but they may not have the the right classes or skills yet, so they take those courses with Open Learning Academy, and we have a lot of non degree seeking opportunities, certifications. So Doane is just is one of those schools that's a leader in building the future. It's a leader in trying to think differently. It's it's a organization that's that's embracing the things that are changing in our society. We don't run from those things. We run we don't run from them. We run to them because we want to be the the leaders in making the world a better place, but also being able to solve problems, be able to have innovation and enhancement to the human experience, and that's what we do. So I can go on and on, but Darwin University is a wonderful place. We have the Crete campus here, which is our main campus, and then we also have class offerings in Lincoln, Nebraska, and also in the Omaha metro area. And then, as I mentioned, online. Michael Hingson  31:12 Where is Crete? John Frost  31:14 Crete is about 40-five minutes away from the state capital of Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln. Michael Hingson  31:19 Okay. John Frost  31:20 Yep, and it's about an hour away from the the largest city in Nebraska of Omaha. So that's where it's about at. So it's it's more on the eastern side of the state, but it's a great place to come and and get your education. Michael Hingson  31:35 So it's a liberal arts college. What does that mean exactly? John Frost  31:39 Oh, that's a great question. So the one of the things about the liberal arts is that it's a holistic view of the human experience, right? It's not just hey, I'm learning something just to learn it. It's not just focus on a physical or medical perspective. It's a overall leader, I would say, human experience, so you're not just going to come to school and focus on just your program. You're going to come to school here and get an education in the classroom and outside of the classroom. You're going to study some different things. You're going to do some worldly things. It's going to be hands-on. So the liberal arts is really big because we feel like that's what's missing. I mean, unfortunately, in higher education, sometimes people just want to get the degree and go on with their lives. We want to make sure you understand the degree that you have and how you can utilize it in a multiple of ways beyond just whatever the whatever the program was that you got your degree in. Michael Hingson  32:39 I had the pleasure last September 11th of speaking at the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts, and I had never actually heard of MCLA, but until they they reached out to me, but it was it was kind of fun and and very enjoyable. And people asked really good, well-rounded questions when we had some Q and A sessions, which I always really appreciate. It's it's good to really get people who are are thinking, and so it was a lot of fun. John Frost  33:06 Awesome, yeah, that sounds great. Michael Hingson  33:08 Yeah, they wanted to do something around September 11th, and we did. So John Frost  33:13 yes, Michael Hingson  33:13 I I can't complain about that at all. It was um a it was a little bit of a challenge to get to, because it was the the nearest airport is Albany, and it was like, well, about an well an hour hour and 20 minutes away. But but we got there, so it worked out. So I I but I enjoy the the whole concept of what liberal arts colleges are about. I think it's important to deal with your degree, but I think it's important to also, as as you say, get a more rounded understanding and learn how to use the degree and learn to use the skills that you get. John Frost  33:48 Absolutely, absolutely. Michael Hingson  33:51 Which I think is so. What sets Doane apart? What makes Doane unique? Maybe from a lot of other places. John Frost  33:58 You know, I get that question a lot of what separates Don, and I think it's it's beholden to the individual that I'm talking to. The one thing about Don is I think that separates us from everybody else. It's not about telling somebody what they can't do. It's about figuring out how they can do it, and that's what Don does with us being a small liberal arts college. We're very hands-on, and I know a lot of colleges say that, but we're about relationships. We're not about being order takers. We're about being dream makers, and that's just as simple as I can make it. If you come to Doane University, you're not just coming just to go through the process and and go through the ups and downs of being a college student. We're trying to make sure that you understand what it is that. Because here's the thing: majority of the students that start sometimes don't know exactly what they want to do. I mean, we have a lot of students that start college and they're undecided, and so what. We like to make sure that we do is build that relationship, understand that particular student, and then come up with a game plan to get them to where they want to be. And I feel like that's what we do. We're not just going to say, "Hey, I'm interested in criminal justice, or "I'm interested in nursing, or "and we just say you go, yeah, go ahead. We have that good luck. God bless. We're going to say, hey, you know what? Tell me more about that. Why are you interested in in nursing? And again, one of the things I used to always use when people say they're interested in nursing, I'll ask these three questions. I ask these three questions. First question: Are you afraid of blood? Right. Michael Hingson  35:35 Good point. John Frost  35:36 Second question: What would you do if I vomited right now? Would you be the person that run, or would you be the person that help? And the last question: How do you feel being on your feet for 12 hours a day? Michael Hingson  35:46 Yeah, John Frost  35:47 right. So by the time I get through those questions, I kind of have a good understanding exactly if they are want to be a nurse or not. But then the follow-up question, which is the most important question, Michael, is tell me why do you want to be a nurse? Well, I want to help people, and so, granted, sometimes just like I mentioned about my story, sometimes you're limited on what your options are. So even though somebody wanted to be a nurse because they want to help people, but they may not be a good fit. However, we can show them, hey, there's a variety of ways that you can help people. It may not be nursing, but here's some other options that we can look into, and that's what separate us. That's what we do. We have a conversation, and we don't rush that conversation. It's just like what we're doing right now. We get to know each other, and we get to help. For by the time they walk across that stage, they're excited about that degree they have in their hand. Michael Hingson  36:37 That's great. I every every year I I just always make it a habit to get a physical, and there usually blood draws as part of it. And it's so fun to go in and when I sit down and they're getting the needle and everything ready to do the blood test, I say, now I just have to ask, what are you going to do if I can't stand the sight of blood? I've had a couple who fall into the trap, and then they finally figure out. Oh, this guy's blind. What's he talking about? Oh gosh. But you know, I guess I'd probably be a good nurse. I can I can answer those three questions. But you know, things things happen, and you know, you got to do what you got to do. Well, absolutely. So right now, higher education, like I think so many things are, is going through some some major changes. We're seeing so many technological advances. So higher education is being challenged to adapt faster because so many things are happening. We haven't even talked about AI, but how is Doane responding to all the the new and sometimes innovative ways of of dealing with education and and helping students progress. John Frost  37:51 Yeah, it's just like I mentioned. We embracing all the new changes. I mean, one of the things that Doan is doing is really embracing AI, looking out, looking at how do you teach the future about AI? How do you utilize it? How do you harness it in a way that it makes it something that it's a resource? It's not a shortcut, and and and use it as a prompt to again, as we talked about earlier, to to create curiosity, and it's just like I mentioned before, you know, yeah. There's conversations about higher education, but as I mentioned, I would put higher education up against any other industry about how it changed society. Like I said, it works; it changes people's lives. You have people that come from all over the world to get a college education, right? Because they know it's something that they need to have to be able to move forward in their life, and also to amplify and enhance their abilities that they have. The one thing that I say about college is that it takes those natural talents and make it into a marketable skill set, and so that's what we're doing with the rhetoric and the conversation about higher education, is it worth it? Should people still do it? The one thing that I've always said is like maybe you may not be the student that starts college right out of high school, but at some point in time, you're going to have to get some additional training. At some point in time you're going to have to go get some additional post-secondary education just to be able to progress in life, because as we all said, you know, with AI, different things with technology, different ways of thoughts, being able to work with different people-that that's what a college does, and and that's what you are investing in. That's probably going to be one of the best investments that you're going to have in your life. Michael Hingson  39:40 Do you find that there are some people who still do, or who just do treat AI as as a shortcut and try to use it to circumvent doing the real work that they need to do? John Frost  39:53 Absolutely, but I think that tells more about that person than AI. Yeah. Right. Michael Hingson  39:57 Oh, I agree. I agree. One of one of. My favorite comments about AI is back in I think it was 2022 around Christmas time. I was at a family gathering and there were a couple people there who were complaining about AI, and then teachers are so frustrated because students just write their papers using AI and you don't know that they're learning anything and. and I I popped up and I said, "You're approaching this all wrong. Let if a student wants to use AI to write their paper, let them write their paper. But what the teacher should do is collect all the papers and then take one period and call each student up to the front of the class, right in front of everybody, and give them a minute to defend their paper. John Frost  40:44 Yes, without the paper, Michael Hingson  40:46 you know either they know it or they don't, and you're going to find out very quickly who really did the work and and who didn't, and people who didn't are going to catch on pretty quickly that that doesn't work. John Frost  40:57 Yes, and isn't it funny that when you think about education, when you think about the philosophers from back in the day, you know you had some philosophers who thought writing was the wrong thing to do, right? Because they they they they would get up and just have these lone soliloquies about what they know and and challenge things. So I think it's funny that with AI allowing us to write, it's going to make us be more verbal and have to articulate our stance and perspectives on things a little bit more. So I think it's fascinating how there's a full circle approach because when you first start thinking about education and those things, it wasn't about writing long solitarys about things. It was about being able to get up and and articulate it, and so I think to your point, I think that's what is going to somewhat force us to do is people be able to get up and to defend what they're sharing with other people. Michael Hingson  41:54 Yeah, and if they're and if they're smart, they'll do it right. Yes, I've I've used AI in writing articles. I'll I'll even ask it several times to write an article about something, and then I read through them. And when I find an idea or something that I think is great, I'll incorporate it into what I write Speaker 2  42:11 to to Michael Hingson  42:12 create the article. Well, I think AI is a great tool as far as it goes, but it is a tool. Yes, and it's never going to be as smart as I am, John Frost  42:21 no, and I don't mean Michael Hingson  42:22 that in an egotistical way. It just isn't. John Frost  42:24 No, and AI can only do what we teach it, right? Michael Hingson  42:27 Right. John Frost  42:27 I mean that's the thing. And and what's fascinating is that if you look at electricity, electricity was criticized when it first came out. You know what is this going to do? When you looked at the news, well, there was that Michael Hingson  42:39 that dumb guy who sent his kite up in the air and finally shocked himself. Yeah, exactly, John Frost  42:43 Benjamin Franklin. Yeah, so I mean, throughout history, every new thing has been challenged, and it has been told that it was the beginning of the end of the world. And but you know, 1000s years later, we're still here. Michael Hingson  42:55 Yeah, but as we all know, the Earth is flat. There is still a flat Earth society out there, and they come up with pretty creative things to try to convince people the world is flat. So there you go. Yes. Ah, well, but you know, I think it's a great tool, and people will find ways to use it and use it effectively, and that's what should happen. What about higher education in general, why is, to some degree, it declining, and how do we deal with that? John Frost  43:26 And that's a great question. I'm not sure when people say that. I'm not sure if higher education is declining. I just think people are, aren't doing the normal trend of just coming to higher education straight out of high school. I think that's where the. I think most people are doing education. They're just doing it a different way. I mean, are people going to trade schools? Yes, but everybody's not going to be able to be a plumber or electrician or anything like that. I think it's not declining. I just think it's changing. To be honest with you, I just think people are looking at it from a different perspective and utilizing it, and and that's what it should do. I mean, it should not stay the same forever. And so that's why I'm fortunate enough to be in this industry because I get to be part of that conversation and process of what it's going to look like for my kids, what it's going to look like for my grandkids. To be honest, if we're doing the same things they did when I was in college, we're doing something wrong. Yeah. And so I think it's changing. I think humans are changing, and I think that's what's so exciting about what's happening in higher education right now. Michael Hingson  44:28 One of the big problems, of course, though, with higher education, and I'm I'm assuming I may be wrong, but more now than somewhat in the past is is the cost. It's getting more and more expensive to do, and I don't know whether that's a relative thing or an absolute percentage-wise. You can prove that it's more expensive, but still, how do you deal with with the people who say it's just so much more expensive to go? John Frost  44:51 Yeah, no, that's a great one. And and I think it depends on what are you looking for, right? I mean, everybody is. Looking to go to X Y Z University. I never Michael Hingson  45:03 go to X Y Z anyway. John Frost  45:05 I mean X Y Z because A B C is probably better. Yeah, exactly. But the the thing is, is understanding what is your. It's just like anything. It's an investment, and if it's an investment, it's what is your financial ability to to work towards that investment, and that again goes back to our conversations with the students that we serve, is them understanding what does it cost to come to Doane University, what does it mean to invest in Doane University, and how does that return looks like once you're done here at Doan University? The one thing that I always would tell people, I can't guarantee anything, but what I can guarantee is that you're going to do a lot better with a degree than without it, because you're going to provide yourself an abundance of options that wouldn't be available if you did not have that degree. In which, because if you have those options, that's going to allow you to be able to create revenue for yourself, that then allows you to have additional options that wouldn't have been that you wouldn't have been to have if you didn't make that initial investment up front by investing in college. But like I said, with ever since I've been in this industry, the one thing that I've always stressed to the people that I serve is, you know, understanding your financial responsibility, understanding scholarships, understanding your ability to get scholarships, understanding financial aid, understanding grants, understanding there's a variety of ways that you can get support to support you to finance college, and so that's the main thing is being able to understand those options and knowing how to move forward with those. Michael Hingson  46:38 Do you think there are some people who are better off not going to a four-year college, or rather, let's just say higher education in general. They're more technical, and they should just do a trade school. Or do you think everyone should get a a full bachelor's degree at least in college? John Frost  46:56 Yeah, and as I mentioned, I think everybody deserves the opportunity for some post-secondary education. Not does everybody need to go to a four-year school or two-year school? No. If you put me in a trade school right now, I probably flunk out. That's just not my skill set, right? Me too. Yeah. So, but I do. That's one of the Michael Hingson  47:14 reasons I never go to X, Y, Z. But yeah, John Frost  47:16 you may be more of an A, B, C. You know, yeah, and so, but that's the see, but that's the that's the uniqueness and the joy that I get in what I get to do, is that I get to help qualify what are some of the best options for the individual that I'm working with and serving, and and being able to tell them, hey, I think this is may maybe a better option, or have you thought about these particular things? Because no, I don't think everybody needs to go to Harvard or everybody needs to come to Doane. But I do think if you do decide to go to Doane, you're going to have a wonderful experience, and you're going to be able to do some really great things. But no, I think at the end of the day, is what's best fit for you, and being able to understand those post-secondary education options. Michael Hingson  48:06 How does college, or how should college, work to help people not only prepare for that first career, but for careers, especially those that perhaps we haven't even thought of yet? And how do you do that? John Frost  48:19 Yeah, I think it comes down to like we talked about the curiosity. What are you naturally good at? I think the one thing that I've seen that I guess I I wouldn't say I've been disappointed, but I've seen a decline, is that I don't I don't see a lot of people who are dreaming or curious about what they're good at. It's almost like they're waiting for somebody to tell them what it is. I don't know if that's an online thing or what have you. But even even when I was a recruiter and I would work with young people, they would say, "Well, I don't know what I want to do. And I always say, "I don't care what it is. Take the top 10 things that you dislike. I don't. It could be basketball. It can be writing. It can be candy. It can be whatever. It can be great shoes, whatever, and take the top 10 things. And we have this thing called Google. I don't know if you heard about it, but and just plug those things in there. Hey, I love candy. Is there a career in candy? I love you know looking at shoes and and understanding shoes. Is there a career? I mean the the the uniqueness of information that we have now than we had 30 years ago is amazing, and so I I think that's what I've I've seen a decline. And the way colleges can help prepare people is to to allow them to be courageous and being curious, and and Michael Hingson  49:44 oh, go ahead. No, John Frost  49:46 and I think that's the thing that we want to do. But go ahead, I'm sorry. Michael Hingson  49:48 Do you think that there's so much access to so many things online? You mentioned Google, but just the whole concept of smartphones and and everything else. Do you think that that's. Sort of helping people do less real dreaming and imagination because they just expect everything to be spelled out right in front of them. John Frost  50:09 And I think it's to the eye of the beholder. You know, smartphones are not good for dumb people, right? So, but I think smartphones for curious people are a powerful thing. I can honestly say, and this is kind of off topic, but I wouldn't consider myself a cook about 1012, years ago. But if it wasn't for the internet, if it wasn't for YouTube, I wouldn't have learned how to smoke meat and do barbecue, right? Yeah. Because that wasn't something I did when I was a kid. It wasn't something I was even thinking about, but because I had a curiosity and I and I love barbecuing and I love smoked meats and I love grilling and things like that, I I learned because of my smartphone how to do all those things, how to prep the meat and how to marinate things and how to be curious about recipes and how to develop flavor profiles and all those things that I did not know about. If it wasn't for the the advent of having a smartphone to just look it up, like, hey, how do you how do you make pulled pork? You know what I mean, and just taking it from there. So I think I think again, smartphones are not good for dumb people. I'm not saying people are dumb, but I think it's powerful for curious people. And as long as you're curious, I think it can be a really great asset for you if you utilize it right. Michael Hingson  51:31 And I think that's absolutely true. I think it all comes down again to curiosity. It's great to have a technology so that you can look things up and and satisfy your curiosity, but what we what we do need to do is to try to work as best we can at encouraging curiosity at all levels and encouraging more people to be curious. And that's where I think the real challenge is because people think you don't have to really be curious because you can look things up, they they don't get John Frost  52:03 it. Yes, no, I agree 100, and that's why I say it depends on the type of person you are, right? I mean, if I mean, I don't spend a lot of time on my phone if I don't have to, but when I am curious about certain things, I can go to it and learn more about it and say, "Oh, this is what I need to do. And but if you was a person that was going to cut a corner or do shortcuts, you was going to figure out a way to do that anyway. It's not the it's not the resources you Michael Hingson  52:29 right, and the the time is going to come when you're going to regret taking those shortcuts because you didn't really imagine very well. And I, I always regarded the internet, dark web notwithstanding, as as a as a treasure trove, yes. Of course, I'm I'm waiting for someone since the Department of Justice and the Attorney General back in I think 2022 said that the internet is a true place of business, and so it falls under the ADA, and all websites have to be accessible. I'm just waiting for somebody to go off and challenge one of the dark web sites. That's probably not accessible. I'm waiting for that to happen. Take that before a judge, you know. But but still, but I I think that the internet and and so many things and ChatGPT and all the other large language model technologies are great because they really give you the ability to exercise curiosity, and I think that's so fun. John Frost  53:32 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Michael Hingson  53:34 So, what's an example that you can talk about? Let's say from Doane about how industry and the college have collaborated to help in terms of education and showing people what they can really do. John Frost  53:49 You know, that's a good question. It happens every day. It happens every day. It happens every day when the first day of school to the last day of graduation. You're looking at the the ultimate collaborative effort of maybe hundreds of people for that individual to walk across that stage. Even though it's one name on that degree, it might have taken 100 people to get them there, from the advisors, from the faculty members, from the friends that they meet, from the from the from the from the coaches, from all types of different people that that one individual encountered to keep them encouraged, to keep them going. Always tell people, especially being here in Nebraska, when you go to school in Nebraska, one day you're gonna have a class that's at 8o'clock in the morning, and you're gonna wake up, and you're gonna walk out there. You're gonna feel negative 10 degree weather, and you're gonna first thing you're gonna think about is I can go right back in and go lay back down. But it's that encouragement of your friends. It's the encouragement of the folks that that are behind you that's gonna tell you you can make it to class. You can make it to class, and that's all it takes. And so I think the the culmination of all those things is what it is that we do. I mean, when that individual walk across that stage and they see grandma or mama or daddy or whomever screaming their name and yelling and all that, they went to class. They didn't turn back around and go. They lay back down. They stood up, and that's why they walk across that stage. So that's the greatest example I can give you, because that's what Dome does. And like I said, we've been doing it for 153 years. So it's not going to be too many places. It's not going to be too many things where you're not going to see a Dome graduate that's doing great things, not necessarily just for themselves, but for the organizations that they serve and and the people that they serve, and then for the greater good of the world. Michael Hingson  55:42 I don't know. For me, I had classes almost every day at eight in the morning. But the other part about it was, if I had a schedule for whatever reason where I didn't have a class at eight in the morning, I felt funny. I was so used to having classes then. I didn't know what you know. I I I I I did figure out I could go study and I could do things and and did, but still I love those early morning classes. That was me. But yeah, I didn't like those John Frost  56:10 early morning classes. No, I didn't like them. Michael Hingson  56:12 You didn't like them, huh? No, that was when Michael Jordan was looking for you to do basketball stuff. Where were you? But yeah, I I hear you. Well, tell me what's next? What's next for the whole future of higher education? Where is it going, or what do you see happening in the future? John Frost  56:30 We're just going to get better. We're just going to get better. That's all. That's that's that's what's happening. I mean, the unique thing about any college campus is that you you have the future in your hands with the people, the people that's going to be running corporations, the people that's going to be finding cures for certain illnesses or things like that, the people that's going to be teaching the youth, future business people, politicians-they're on our campus and they're going to leave their mark because that's one thing that I've always said. I mean, it's not too many discoveries. It's not too many great things that's happening in our society that's not oriented with a college campus. And so the future is that a college campus is just. It may look different. It may feel different. We may do things a little different. But at the end of the day, it's still going to be part of our future. It's still going to be getting better. It's still going to be helping humanity. I always tell the folks that I serve that I don't care what title you have. The first title, the most important title is being a human, and so that's what the future of higher education is going to look like. It's just going to get better. Like I said, it's going to be different. I mean, you got to think when higher education first started. You know, women couldn't go to school, minorities couldn't go to school, and there were so many different things that you couldn't do. Now look at it. I mean, if you talk to the forefathers or the presidents of some of these universities, if you told them that that you and I would even be doing this, they'd be thinking they would throw you an insane asylum, right? That you'll be able to talk to somebody in California and you're in Nebraska, but this this is what this is what curiosity, this is what higher education provokes, Michael Hingson  58:10 as it should be. It's so cool, and I know it's only going to continue, and it will continue to get better. If people want to reach out to you and pick your brain, or just talk with you about Doan, or just talk with you about education, or whatever. How do they do that? John Frost  58:26 Yeah, of course. Feel free to email me at johnfrost@done.edu. So J J O H N dot frost frost at don d o a n e at.edu and then also follow us on social media. Just put us on any social media platform and put don.edu. You can find us, and then if you want to just connect with us, just look us up on our website doane.edu. That's our website. We'd love to learn more about you. If you're thinking about coming to college or looking more into lea

What does it really mean to build bridges that last for decades? I want you to meet Bircan Unver, whose lifelong commitment to responsibility, creativity, and global citizenship has shaped more than 25 years of meaningful work through Light Millennium. From growing up as the eldest of seven children in Turkey to creating an internationally recognized nonprofit connected with the United Nations, Bircan shares how art, public media, and open dialogue can bring people together across cultures. We explore why responsibility begins with each of us, how local communities can help solve global challenges, and why issues like water security, environmental stewardship, and human connection matter more than ever. I believe you'll enjoy hearing how one person's unstoppable mindset continues to inspire collaboration, education, and hope for a better future. Highlights: 06:55 - How growing up with responsibility shaped Bircan's lifelong commitment to serving others. 18:30 - Why public access television became the foundation for sharing voices and building community. 26:15 - The story behind founding Light Millennium and creating a nonprofit built on dialogue and education. 36:55 - How local communities can play a meaningful role in advancing United Nations goals. 49:45 - Why water security, cybersecurity, and gender equality are becoming deeply connected. 55:40 - Bircan reflects on preserving ideas through books, creativity, and lifelong learning. About the Guest: Bircan Ünver is the Founder-President of The Light Millennium, a Charitable Global Human Advancement Organization (LMGlobal.Org, 2001, New York); Executive Producer of the LMTV Programs; Multi-Media and Event Producer; Host, Author, Publisher, Public Speaker; [Head] NGO Representative of The Light Millennium to the United Nations Department of Global Communications since 2005 (formerly, UN.DPI); and Chair, Outreach and Partnerships Subcommittee at Global NGO Executive Committee and director for the 2021-2023 term. She has been also a Content Provider at QPTV since 1992, and she is the editor and co-founder of the U.S. Turkish Library & Museum Project. She has undertaken the Organization's e-publications, public programs since its inception in August 1999, and #LightMillenniumTV Series and Specials in all aspects of it since January 2000; along with, the LMGlobal.Org's all UN-related activity and programs since 2005. Bircan is the author and director of the Compulsory Peace & ICTs Education from Kindergarten to K-12, and Beyond Campaign, which she launched it through the Light Millennium Global in support of the Summit of the Future in 2024. The Campaign has delivered its 8th session along with the Coalition for the Campaign, which contains 22 organizations and educational institutions including The Light Millennium Global as the leading organization. Further,  she is also author of the bi-annual international high school project, “J.U.C. Media, Research, Writing & Innovation Awards”. The third of its kind was dedicated to the “Water Action Decade” and was delivered  (virtually) on the World Water Day, March 22, 2025. Bircan served as a mentor to the GPODS for three consecutive terms in Winter'22, Summer'22, and Fall'22 Fellowship Programs; and delivered lectures on “How to associate with the UN-NGO”, Public Access TVs in the U.S., and the latest one was on the #WaterActionDecade and the #2023UNWater Conference. To attach that, on behalf of LMGlobal.Org, she organized and hosted an Outside-UN Side Event ID #W175, titled, “What Is Your Commitment To The #WaterActionDecade? ~ Seven Core Ideas Toward #WaterAwareness, #WaterConscience and #GameChangers” in NYC on March 21, 2023, and was the head delegate of the LMGlobal.Org at the #UN2023WaterConference. Based on LMGlobal.Org's Commitments to the #WaterActionDecade, she launched #OneMinuteWaterActionCommitment during the #W175 Side Event, along with continues to work toward #WaterAwareness toward building up #WaterConscience.  She served as the chair of the ATAA Committee on UN Relations, guided its association to the UNDGC in 2020, and also served as the New York Regional Vice-President of ATAA (Assembly of Turkish American Associations) from October 2019 to January 2022. Furthermore, she served on several Planning Committees of the UN-Civil Society Conferences, and the Planning Committee of the High-Level Forum on the Culture of Peace (HLF-CoP). She has been a strong advocate of the UN Vision, Programs & Sustainable Development Goals (2015-2030) along with the relevant UN Days, which are in line with the LMGlobal.Org's Mission/Purposes since its association with the UNDGC (formerly, UN.DPI/NGO) in December 2005. Currently, Bircan is on the Advisory Board of the Turkish Forum (based in Germany). She encourages and guides interested civil society organizations and members of academia toward their educational institutions' associations with the UN, along with engaging them with the UN Programs that are within her networks and beyond. Further, she is an Ambassador of Peace and Goodwill for Anuvrat (Anuvibha) Global Organization (Jaipur, India, since 2014); and a Member of the Global Movement for the Culture of Peace (GMCoP, since 2012). Bircan is also the founder and president of the IsikBinyili.Org Association based in Istanbul (2010), which is a sister organization and counterpart of the LMGlobal.Org. Author of the following four book titles in print (Turkish): “En Kutsalı Yaratmak” (The Most Sacred is to Create) (1995, 2022), “Sanatın Labirentlerinde” (The Labyrinths of Arts) (2016), and “Işık Yollarında (“The Ways of the Light”) (poetry, 2017), and “Bin Yıl Daha…” (2020, A Thousand Years More…). Also, she is the author of the concept and compilation of the “Hope Never Fades” (English) book (Istanbul, 2023). Bircan initially received her local and studio television production certificates at QPTV.Org in 1992. Based on this capacity, she produced and broadcasted near to 260 television programs through local channels in New York City, which are also available online through www.vimeo.com/channels/LightMillenniumTV including 36 #OneMinute #WaterAction PSAs. Bircan celebrated her 30th Anniversary at QPTV.Org through a video profile, titled, “A Turkish Experience in America” (Duration: ~9 min. Production Year: 2022). Her works through The Light Millennium Global is a recipient of various national (U.S.) and international awards and recognitions including two awards from the Foundation of Alliance Community 2023 Hometown Media Awards (F-ACM-HMA for her “GroundWater” Light Millennium TV program in Web-based Programming and Online Events / Independent Producer categories (received at Brick TV, New York), the Anuvrat Ahimsa Award For International Peace-2023 (received in Mumbai, India), and the 2023 International Volunteer President Award by Institution of Green Engineers (received in Chennai, India), and ashe is also the recipient of the 2024 Best Web-Based Program – Independent Producer for the #HopeNeverFades program by F-ACM-HMA, which was produced based on the 2023 J.U.C. Media, Research & Writing Awards (ACM HomeTown Media Awards, San Jose, CA). Bircan holds a Bachelor of Arts (B.A.) Degree from the Mimar Sinan Fine Arts University (Istanbul, 1988) and a Master's Degree (M.A.) from Media Studies of the New School University (New York City 1999). Ways to connect with Bircan**:** Websites: www.lmglobal.org  (active web site) | www.lightmillennium.org (serves as the organization's web archive)#LightMillenniumTV | www.vimeo.com/LMTV | www.vimeo.com/channels/LightMillenniumTV Social Media: Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bircan-ünver-7353207 X@lightmillennium Instagram@lightmillennium About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello everyone, and I want to welcome you to another edition of Unstoppable Mindset, and today we get to talk to a very interesting person with a with a lot of roots in Turkey, but she is also doing a lot of work with the United Nations here in the U.S. and other places. Her name is Birchan Umfer, and I hope I got that right. And Bircan Unver  01:23 thank you. Michael Hingson  01:24 Oh, good. And Berjan is is with us, and is going to talk about a number of things that she is working on. She's working on, and for years has been involved with a program called Light Millennium, and we'll we'll talk about all that, but let's just start and and as usual we'll have a great conversation. So, Bir John, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Bircan Unver  01:50 Thank you so much, Michael Hingston. It's great honor and privilege to have your guests. Especially, I love the title Unstoppable Minds. It's really inspiring and triggering the mind. Thank you. Michael Hingson  02:08 Well, my pleasure. We're glad that you have the time to to spend with us, and we will we will we will do it and make it work. Well, let's start. I love to start this way because I really want people to learn about you. Tell us kind of about the early Birchan growing up, and then we'll go from there. So tell us about Birchan and growing up, and and and all of that. Bircan Unver  02:32 Thank you. This will be a little bit different than most people know about me, my work. Well, we'll get to Michael Hingson  02:38 your work. Bircan Unver  02:40 Yeah, I know. I mean, the people who already know my work. What I'm gonna say now is completely too different from Berja. So I am a elder of seven siblings, and I was born in an ancient village in Mid Anatolia, actually nearby the Black Sea region, and I'm proud with my age, 1959, and my family moved to town first from the village, and then Istanbul for our educations for their kids, and but I don't know really as a girl child growing up with seven kids, as especially with a traditional family, being older girl is not a good idea. But but maybe it was a kind of tough childhood as a girl child. I I don't feel that I never been a child. That's really what I feel. But on the other hand, and that was you know when you are growing up, living through like I was a kind of second mom, and also our home was kind of everyone our guest from the village town and stay over not only one night, like or a week, like sometimes months, even years. You won't believe that, and it was not because either. So, but those kind of build up maybe my feeling to be responsible, so I consider myself a responsible person because I was responsible for my sisters, brothers, and also washing dishes, making helping my mom to prepare the meal, lunch, breakfast, and clean up. Like you know, I was kind of second person, second mom at home. So those early things, all those stolen my childhood, but at the same time, provide me being able to do everything from very early age. Even though I remember several times at the time. The bread wasn't, you know, you you weren't buying the bread from the market, but from the bakery, real where they were baking the bread. So she was, and time to time also she was making the the bread at home, and then she she wasn't sending me to school because then I had to stay with my brothers and kids so she can make the you know breads a big amount for a couple days. So that said, also gave my idea. I want to suddenly want to work as soon as you know I'm 17, 1617, So and then I started early working at a bank, and it was my first eight years. I worked at a bank in Istanbul. It is called Istanbul Bank, and then my graphic is like life graphic is a little bit different, like curvy, not like straight line. Then after eight years working at a bank, I started to university and fine arts, and then I had kind of interest art history, especially TV production, art history, arts in in the concept is producing art documentaries. That was kind of my vision. Also, it was also my reason initially coming to the U.S. learning TV production. Of course, English as first. So that was very much my childhood until you know 18 until starting at the bank, and then the rest is another story. I have, I must say, I would have three different life. Michael Hingson  06:48 Well, you had certainly an interesting childhood, needless to say, and I, I can understand what you're saying about being the oldest and all the challenges. I was not. I was the youngest, but we only had two siblings, and neither of us we were we were both males, and so we we did not do a lot in terms of preparing meals and all that sort of stuff. Except my brother and I were both in the Boy Scouts, and so when we went camping and other things like that, we learned how to cook on an open or an open fire and and things like that. But still, I understand that you you had a a lot that you had to do. What lessons did you learn by being the oldest child? What kinds of things do you think that you you carry over to what to your life today, because you were the oldest. Bircan Unver  07:44 I think two different components of that. One is also because it wasn't only I was the as a kid at the home and as a girl, girl, but also at the time there wasn't that kind of awareness which we have today. Which I mean, my mom got married with my dad at the age of 15, and she had birth. She had given me birth at the age of 16, the reason I'm bringing up this, when we were going to shopping Kapolechar, Grand Market of Istanbul, when I was 1516, and literally we were halfway age difference between my mom and myself. And when I was saying mom, and the people were surprised, and she and isn't your sister, other sister? They were asking me, and she was my mom. So, but this is in the long later years. I always become the best friend with my mom, and even my brother was saying, "Oh, now I understood that she, you are the joy of my mom because she can kind of a joke, and the others, my kids, like they are kids, but I'm her friend because they kind of feel similar. That is one, you know, lifetime developed feeling and strong connection, different connection with my mom, and the other also, as I mentioned at the beginning, it really this whole, you know, not selected, but where you, which house you born, which condition you grow up, that build up for me early high level responsibility. I feel responsible to do everything, and I, you know, that's a little bit tiring because that's what I want to say here. You say something in our after our initial Zoom meeting. It's really very inspiring. You say something. I just took note. We can solve all the worst problem. We can. You say you don't say we cannot. You say we can. Solve all the world's problems. So, like, it wasn't possible. It's not possible, but you know, as if I could solve the problems or I could carry everything. So it's kind of you know build up my bricks in my life. Michael Hingson  10:18 One of the things that you certainly, it sounds like you learned as you were growing up, though, was was all about responsibility and and and learning to take charge, but learning about responsibility and and feeling that it was okay to be responsible for others in your family and so on. And I think a lot of people don't necessarily learn a lot of lessons about responsibility, like they should. But you were put in a position where you had to do that, which is is certainly a good thing because you clearly have have done that in your life. Bircan Unver  10:54 That's very true, and also it goes with everything. Let's say sometimes some people think maybe unnecessary action when people cut trees, even in their you know backyard or front yard, whatever trees or any type of trees or fruit trees. I really get mad and upset because it is irresponsible to nature, to their own environment, just feeling they're responsible to trees, loving the trees, loving the you know, for instance, if when I was it was two weeks ago, I was working on at my desk, a bees was you know flying around me, and I don't like you know trying to hit and chase the bees, and I just left the window open, moved the room two hours, and it's gone. So I don't want to hurt things, even though if it bites, it would hurt me, right? So to kind of find a way, being responsible, because also I have a subconscious thinking that if I try to chase a herd, if an insect, any of them, they you know they react sharp. So I'm not a threat to them. So they are not threat to me. So I kind of make a subconscious connection, communication. Michael Hingson  12:22 Well, and it's it's better to to learn to love than than not. So I I hear what you're saying. Now you didn't go to college or university, right? Or you did? Bircan Unver  12:35 Of course, I did. That's what I was just briefly brought this stair at that level. That after eight years working at at Istanbul Bank, from literally actually 17 to 24 or 23 late 23 early 24 then I started at the Fine Arts University in Istanbul, and I mainly study both as major Turkish tradition arts and also along with as a minor. We didn't have a minor, but we had we didn't have the minor degree, but we had a selected course. So I was following up several like four years in a row and also whole year around, not a quarter semester base artist troy and contemporary art. So I started writing on art and exhibit and interviewing artists while I started study at the Fine Arts University, which is top university in Fine Arts in Istanbul, Myanmar, Sinan Fine Arts University. Michael Hingson  13:44 So you learned a lot about fine arts, and Bircan Unver  13:47 yeah, Michael Hingson  13:47 and you had obviously learned about finance from the bank, which Bircan Unver  13:51 is didn't learn that Michael Hingson  13:53 much, huh? Bircan Unver  13:53 Not at all, and I didn't like it. That's why I, you know, I changed all my life line. Michael Hingson  14:00 Right, but but you enjoyed art. Bircan Unver  14:03 Yes, and because also art always for me, and it as it is today. Whatever the life problems we cannot be resolved, art is always for me a branch to hold on and to kind of feel strength, connect with the nature, with the art culture, whom I never might met, or maybe you know through art, through music, through books. So it's kind of really, I think the the best human conscious and what we leave behind is what we produce. Creative might be a little bit another discussion. What is the term defined? And now everyone using like creative for everything, but creativity is like really what stays, you know, central. And something as what is already before, and what you brought it something new, that new perspective, like cubism and faism and expressionism and all that different genres or pop arts and another one Dali's movement. So all the Dadaism, so each of them brought something what is already existed, and then you know moved to different level, and also technology and communication brought where we are today. So and music, I'm not any degree. Degree train or understand, but I love music as most people about music and arts and literature and writing is always for me. Also taking pictures. I don't trust my memory much, but this is not new, not because of my age now. But I somewhat I always like take the pictures, whether I have cell phone, the oldest, you know, digital or the manual photo photographs. So even though when I run into where where was it, where I was, who was with, who next to me? I can't remember. But why I love that? Because really, it brings, it captures your life, even you don't remember, and then reconnect. Also, I I come up with a new concept. I haven't done anything yet, but it's kind of developing in my mind, that we can, we are able to capture the past, but we cannot capture the future, because you know whether you know unexpected the one photo comes up, or an audio recording, or all those movies, musics, and documentaries and paintings throughout artistry, you can really capture the past depending on what you know your background or interest and education, but you cannot capture the future. But you can imagine, we can imagine the future. We can invest into the future. Michael Hingson  17:16 Well, and and the the reality is that that the future is based on so many things that happen in the past, and so you can learn to to use some of that information and and have a better idea of what the future might be like, and that's that's pretty fascinating too. So so, how long did you go to college Bircan Unver  17:42 in in Turkey the basic four university education is annual base, not semester base. It's a four years, and actually when I started it was five years. Then later on they the system education board changed it to like four years plus two years. So I graduated from a four years fine arts, and then I have a master's degree based in New York News School University. Michael Hingson  18:20 Ah, in New York. Bircan Unver  18:21 Yeah. Michael Hingson  18:22 Okay. So that was was that two years. Bircan Unver  18:27 Yes, but it was a little bit different again. Yeah. See, because first when I was here for the first time, 18 919, 89 to 1994, I started and I took to six credits and I love it. But I had to go back to Istanbul, so then I got the you know absence live of absence, and then but coming back three years later, I readmitted, and then I finish it. I got my graduate diploma in 1999 May 1999 Michael Hingson  19:12 Okay, so Bircan Unver  19:14 you've been dealing late. You've been Michael Hingson  19:17 dealing with school for a while, but but while all that was going on, you got interested in, and you started to to do things regarding public access television. And you started that, if I read your biography correctly, in in 1991, you started doing things with public public access TV. Tell us a little bit about that, and why did you do that? Bircan Unver  19:41 That's really the kind of key point in my life. In as for the initial one of the two reasons that I came to the U.S. as the first time, I was you know the first aim to learn English. The second also. To learn the TV production, and then my first year was in the U.S. was in L.A. and then I was looking for the schools and just I'm I I'd like to get the formal education, formal training, and then one of my friends there, whom I met there, she said my aunt is TV producer at Queens Public TV in New York, and she is looking for someone like you who really wants to get in and all that. And then I think a couple months later, I had a very brief trip to New York, and I met with her, and then I met with her at QPTV. Now she is unfortunately not with us, but she was also she was the first Turkish producer at QPTV, and I'm forever grateful in memory of her. She was the one who introduced me QPTV, so I met Victor at QPTV in 1990, and then when I went back to LA, I decided to move to New York. So as soon as I moved to New York and I registered to QPTV's both field production and studio, and at the time, there were seven, eight months waiting list. Eventually, I got it on the list, 1991, and first I got the field production certificate, and it was I think six months something, and we had a group project and solo project, and then studio and studio production. It's when the same group project after you are learning all the equipment and then shooting and everyone is crewing everyone is helping each other within the same group of the class and then also producing group project and then the individual project that it is the similar step for the field production and the studio, that also provides a certificate to enabling us to use QPTV equipment, studios taking out the equipment, inviting studios, studios. Unfortunately, after COVID 19, there has been a long dragging issue. They haven't opened the studios. This is I don't want to get in because it is beyond our concept, but because that was my initial reason also moving to New York. And then once I started producing program and airing, I really loved idea from one idea, just idea, and then put paper and develop it. Bring yes, bring the crew, especially with the manual three-inch tapes, and to present, put everything in a tape, and then submit it an ARC schedule. I really love that. So then, while I was there, and then I said, "Okay, I want to really have a master's degree on TV production. So my master's degree from New Zealand University is in media studies. So and I got my diploma May 1999 So, but New Zealand was amazing. I learned all the first my you know my life although it was 39 maybe 3839 years old when I was Photoshop and Premiere or Evid and all the first offline digital all the software program I learned at the new school and I edited my first program offline at the new circle as well, but when I got diploma, and then I had nowhere no access to continue. Also, you know, it's just I, I never been about the person. My mind and my heart wealthy, but not financial terms. And then, so QPT was always my second home because it provides me continuing the producing and provides me access, provides me equipment. It's like provides the community. That's what it is exists for, especially in support of the Article First Amendment and freedom of expression, and also QPTV format is really, really not well known, or not QPTV loaned. It is public access, pack programming, public education and government programming, non-commercial. So it's it is not much known widely, but it is really one of the best symbol of democracy. And now it's kind of a little bit diminishing because also widespreading out other web streaming platforms like this or other, so that there are so many. Discussion and issues, and also there is one petition to the New York Senate that is called Team New York that could also bring in all the web streaming to this community media access public access media. So then, Michael Hingson  25:19 oh, go ahead. Bircan Unver  25:20 No, I mean the question is so QPTV had has been the longest since 1991. I've been providing content, and as long as I am in the US, if I'm out of the country, even if I am out of the country, my previously submitted programs are rerunning in different, you know, whenever they schedule for my new programs, I determine which time slot because I have a time slot to be scheduled, and whether 28 minutes or one hour. But especially again after COVID 19, I couldn't produce anything at the studio at QPTV, but like this Zoom-based programs, and then for the late million organization, the programs I produce and then edit them, reformat them to schedule for QPTV. But it wasn't as it used to be produced at QPTV, at the studio with the crew, that's the excitement teaming up. It's really, I love it. But Zoom, this type also make more maybe manageable, but also bring more intonation speakers. You know, through online connection. If Speaker 1  26:54 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  27:28 So you you started in public access television and and and are still doing that essentially. But in 2000 you started Light Millennium TV. Tell us about Light Millennium Television. Bircan Unver  27:42 Thank you so much. Because Late Millennium, I still consider it's my third child because already 25th anniversary. The flyer on my back says 25th That also refers the 25th anniversary of the Light Millennium. I think a the experience and production, and also providing three platform QPTV, Queens Public TV, but actually the 1992 Communication Act and PAC programming, public government public education and government programming; those emerge with my new school education, like Fatrus, Plato, the concept of the two ways of messaging, and for the first time in my life, at the age of I think it was I was 39 I was able 3039, I was able to use. It was very new, also for the war. Internet. We had the internet at the new school as our media class, the open forum. One week media theory class. We have open discussion forum about Greek philosophy, further is communication, media theory. The other class we had the classic format. So all these together merged in my mind, and I really felt I found my medium. That medium is the internet, which me, especially someone is living in New York, who has you know 30 years first life in Turkey, Istanbul, that culture, and then I I didn't want to kind of disconnect from my root cultures, and internet provided me that connections, and also I always like to write and communicate, so so it becomes like natural medium. And then when I just graduated in May 1999 I send out by then like 40 people with my friends. Colleagues, and then I said, "Oh, I want to start a platform. This platform is going to be ours. And everyone wants to say, kind of to expand the QPTV's concept, because when I say QPTV's concept, this is the again First Amendment, and they don't control the content. They don't say anything you can do, you cannot unless it is a threat to someone's life. So it's all the content, or you are responsible as the producer. So I really love that freedom and responsibility again. And then then I was mentoring at the New York Food Moon Finance and Television, and I was kind of trying to find what I want to do, and I was already producing programs at QPTV. I never give up as as long as I could afford to produce the time and edit. Edit is always more time consuming, and then the executive director of the at the time 1999 Woman Film Man Television, she said you can form a nonprofit. I never taught it before, and I'm forever thankful to her. And then I said I don't know what to do where to start because she perhaps she saw the potential because I was producing non-commercial and publishing, trying to promote, you know, through group emails, and whatever the you know social media available at the time. Well, mostly email and group emails, and then she suggested me a volunteer lawyers of arts that she said they can help you, and I never knew and I never thought I if I never came to U.S. maybe I will never had a concept of forming a nonprofit or light minimum. So that U.S. and all combination brought me and news called Queens Public TV, First Amendment, United Nations Article of 19 Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Everything together kind of merged in my mind. Also, the projects I produce, I communicate, is contact with people, I learn from them. So then, when I contacted with them, they ask me, you know, what is my statement this type? And then I drafted all of them, and they put in medical, you know, terms and terminology, and I was lucky that we got a pro bono at the time one of the you know major U.S. law firms. I I think I can say now because they even though I think merged K Shuler, but they took our case and they formed my organization on on a pro bono basis and officially the first as a non profit organization done with the 500 1c T V together. So we officially formed 2001 July 17, and we and then right after that they filed 501c3 for us, and then we granted that in September 18, 2002. Bircan Unver  33:14 My memory is not good, but I I remember that date as of today because it was kind of imprinted in my mind, but also the beauty was that the granted granting 501 c3 was effective of the formation date, which is July 17 2001 So then, since I developed started the light minimum concept, introducing speaking people trying creating an open platform that everyone can you know contribute be part of it, so then I started in January 2000 on January 13 2000 started first monthly the like TV series at like at QP TV. That's how it came about. Michael Hingson  34:02 Yeah, you have certainly created quite a niche in in the whole light millennium and all the other things that you've done, which is pretty fascinating. How did you get connected with the United Nations? Because I know you're doing work with them. Bircan Unver  34:18 Thank you. Actually, the concept with the UN use, I don't do work for them. Michael Hingson  34:29 Right. Bircan Unver  34:29 We do work with them. Right. You're connected Michael Hingson  34:34 with them. You're not working for them. I understand that. Bircan Unver  34:36 Yeah, I just you know one word, but it's key key differences. But as as I mentioned, how the light millennium concept emerged, and also my master's degree program, media studies at the New School, and also there is another person I have to mention here, also in. Separate for her respectful and loving memory, Danielle Camille. She was my advisor for my thesis project advisor at the new school, and all that TV ideas and my thesis project. And she loved, and I got all A. And my first TV ideas project was peace, reality, or utopian dream, and it was 11 minutes or so. It was just before the first Clinton administration election, just October, I think 2002 and then I interviewed many academicians, civil society, non-profits who whose focus area on peace and war and you know against nuclear or all that and and then that actually the concept peace reality or utopian dream that took me to the United Nations I don't know now as a as an outsider, at the time it was so welcoming, and I went to photo department. They share me with photos, and I got all the books I was looking for. Of course, public library. I got all the books about the peace and peace organization. So that 12 minutes program, peace rate or utopian dream, and physically led me to step in the UN for the first time, and then producing this project, searching kind of open to me new horizon, and also my advisor was persistent. Birjan, we know you are great. You produce fundamental programs on arts, but I want you to do something else. So that actually also forced me to move beyond producing something beyond arts. And so then then peace, reality, or utopian dream concept came in, but also it wasn't far topic in my life because my son was born 20 when I was 2022 Now he is 45 His name is Borush, and mean is in Turkish peace. Peace also at the time, you know, Africa hunger, and I was hoping when I get 4050, this will be over. It's not the case, but as a vision, I always look for humanistic positive for the humanity, not you know for myself well-being. Michael Hingson  37:38 Well, you you kind of act as a bridge between UN programs and local communities. Tell me more about that because you view that you view yourself as being a bridge between UN programs and the local community. Why do you why do you view yourself as more of a bridge? Bircan Unver  38:00 That's very nice metaphor, and I think it's very true for me too. Maybe I could take it two three step backs. One is the village I was born. There is a river, and and then there was a bridge, and that bridge was kind of fundamental. Really, going to where you know people are established, living in all the agriculture and large fields, and it was kind of nostalgic to me. It's a bridge, but it's a stone, short bridge. That's the the first part. The second Istanbul. You know, my life main path when I was in Istanbul, Turkey in Istanbul, and Istanbul the Bosphor and then the Istanbul Bridge. Now the name changed, and now three bridges, and not just the bridge itself, but also Turkish geographic Turkey's geographical space place on Earth and especially on in between Europe and Asia and Black Sea and then the Mediterranean Sea and then when you go down North Africa, and then you go up like Russia and North Europe. So you see that that connection physically, geographically, and troy physical bridges. We live, we grow up with this kind of as part of our DNA and vision. When I was working on this, the first the initial need you know in the non-profit world to describe the need need was to connect with my culture, people, friends, family, the internet medium, and then village is also metaphor, and when we associated with the. I let I'm proud to say it. Let the association process. That was also my vision from that small video for the class project. And then, then I realize this is also. I think today is real fact that local communities, even Queens here, people are paying 1000s of dollars to come to New York to get visas. All that trying to get the sponsor, you know, to attend a conference, and I I didn't see much interest within the local nonprofits there, and that little bit was shocking realization for me. So I brought to my programs UN visions programs, MDGs, UN days, sustainable development goals. For instance, when it was announced at the UN for the 2023 agenda, we created dreams for humanity. So we brought people from lots of life, poets, authors, and youths to really share their ideas for humanity, for peace. Michael Hingson  41:12 Well, you-it sounds like, from all that I've read and and studied, you're you're, or at some point, you kind of have moved more into dealing with a lot of things with the environment. So I know that your program has been able to get a credit accredited as an observer observer status with the UN Environment Program. How is how has that affected what you do and all of your work going forward. Bircan Unver  41:43 Thank you. This is also another important, I think, milestone for us. The first in connection with the UN, associated with the in the formerly United Nations Department of Public Information, and then it has changed to Department of Global Communications. Officially, we've been associated since 2005, active and good standing, and we are able to be presented at the UN with six representatives, and therefore we are able also to reflect back to our committee's networks from the UN and it's two ways. I really like the concept two ways messaging, and then always environment in somewhat it involves in our programs. But let's say through water, through energy, through, for instance, when the forest fires really burns my heart. So being sensible and trying to, as much as I could, to attend the meetings, especially MDGs for the first phase of the Millennium Declaration, really, it's. I consider UN is the best school I ever had, and it's for me lifetimes to call, and I learn about so many countries I will never otherwise know them much. Some of the names you hardly hear in media and anywhere else, so it's kind of opens and to see the global spectrum. Also, one of the things I really love at the UN, whether you you are a ambassador or president or prime minister of a country that has maybe a population 1 million or 2 million or 1 billion or two 1.6 billion, the largest one, so you have the same minutes of speaking time, same voting, especially of course, I'm talking about the general assembly. So those things I follow up, and we try to incorporate time to time. And water issue always, I wanted to involve. I want to do something about, but it's just not like because I love the tourists, and I'm not, you know, scientist, so I'm not officially trained. So also, I'm not able to protect the, you know, fires in the forest. And every year it's getting worse and worse. And then I'm sensible, but you know, you can't do much about it. And eventually, although our last name is same, but we are not blood connected. Professor Oljoymer, at the time he was vice president for the UN Water at the UN, and we connected. And I was following up, and I was aware his work before we met. We connected through the UN. So then, especially during the COVID era, then when I've seen his speeches, natural-based solutions, and then his piece on smart water, so I propose him if we can do something. About water, and then he was very supportive, very kind, very modest. We had our first water program on the World Water Day in March 2001 and then it has turned out an annual program, and we kind of made the global connections and collaborations, and especially first three, four of them, Professor Olja led and guide, and also we worked together in a sense that I brought one part of the speakers and he brought other parts. So it was also great, diverse speakers and also the level of the speakers from whether civil society, academia, UN, and youth, all that. So we already presented six of them, and 2023 we were part of the UN Water Conference. We presented a program, and then last year we participated and presented a program site event in Nice on the Ocean Conference, and we kind of we also had previously on the ocean again. So plastic also become whether ocean, whether water, whether land life, like plastic, is becoming a huge in every level. Not plastic, but also chemical, all all sorts of polluters on in environment. So then we become promoting, producing, and there are really great level of academicians and experts, and they also like to share and connect their research and their findings. So it's a platform to break down together, and then when it is a video, when it is posted as both a summary along with the full presentation or speech, so it becomes a really source where you know you can find diverse voices, diverse solutions, diverse ideas, and also we align them in support of the UN days, UN conferences, SDGs, sustainable development goals like Water Days. Also, we collaborate with an organization in India, IGEN Green Institution, Green Engineers Institute of Green Engineers. So they are focusing on energy SDG seven. So we contribute them, bringing speakers. Bircan Unver  47:40 So then they join us to our program. So really, it's an organic volunteer base. So that that actually, I was so proud that we got a call, invitation to submit the application for this accredited status, and it was June 2025 after the ocean conference. I think ocean conference kind of brought them cumulatively and maybe brought their attention. And then October they asked our official documents, the bylaws and and certificate of organization, which is the regular require any formal application at the UN, and then I I submitted them in I think it was October 1525 but I haven't heard anything, and then I thought maybe you know they didn't consider, and then literally a year later, in June, last June, we got approval, and with a, it's not just accredited for a special one particular conference. It is an observer status assembly to contribute draft ideas. I mean, to contribute drafts, draft resolution to observe, to participate, and then also to be responsible to provide every four-year quadrennial report. Let's say if we fail to produce contribution at any level to this cause, then you know we may lose that observed status, but of course we'll do our best to contribute and to continue. Michael Hingson  49:27 With all of the work that you've done in all of this, I want to come back to World Water Day in a moment. But with all the work that you've done and all the the the things that you've done in public television and so on, when you host these meetings or you participate in these meetings, do they get televised? Also, are you able to bring those to to the public through public television? Bircan Unver  49:53 When it is Zoom, then I edit within my time slot within the limits of. Time slots and QPTV provides two different time slots. One is 20-eight minutes, the other one is 50-eight minutes. So then, let's say if it's two-hour session, I you know a little bit edit and then title, etc. and part one, part two, and also depending on the length of the session or 20-eight minutes. So then I schedule them through the local channels, as we spoke at QPTV. Also, I make them available through our vmail.com/lmtv channel on web on the web. Also, when we have a summary or outcomes, so we also provide those links and share through social media. Try our best to make those information available, visible, and reachable. Michael Hingson  50:51 Well, that I'm glad you do that. I'm glad that it gets to be something that is a lot more publicized than you just attending a meeting-that's important, I would think, to do when when you talk about World Water Day and so on. One of the things that that I I understand you do is you compare water security directly with cybersecurity and gender equality. Those are three different sorts of things when you include water security. Tell us more about that. Bircan Unver  51:24 This was our latest program in last March, and we had in our prior program on AI a discussion on AI a public discussion on AI policy or AI arc. So he's a professor and at the SUNY, and he's a mathematician, and he's also teaching cybersecurity. And when I was talking about when we met about the water conference upcoming, actually in this December, in the United Emirates on I think December six to eight. Even I was thinking to attend, but I wanted part a bit this time virtually instead of going there. So when we were talking about and and I really like this idea and I say as I asked exactly what you asked for, and then his really statement explanation made great sense because everything is nowadays control troy some form of electronic or AI or a combination of those systems, right? Competing systems. So if or if there is a technical issues, that's one case. But if there is a hack, especially water is the life source for everyone, whether you are billion or trillion, or you are you know ordinary people on the you know everyday life. So water is the source for everything, including producing the energy. AI. So water is the life itself. So then, when he said, if any hacking, whether you know small you know some you know people with a bad intention or some maybe big corporation because some profit purpose they want to sell more you know bottled water whatever or some international security issues you you may name this many other things. So if a computer system, if the control mechanism, if the AI system, whatever that combination in that system, is hack, then everything is a huge risk, and that's number one. How it connects with the water. Also now you know we smart how everything is electronic. Everything and then when that somewhat the life collapses there. So including water, including energy. So everything is so much you know interconnected. And then how that the gender equality came. Also, we follow Michael the UN annual-based dedication team for each UN Day or conferences. For instance, last year, water and gender equality, because water and gender required is also so inseparable concept and conditions in many parts of the world, and then also our professor Emre Tokus, he also. Make beautiful connection that if woman or when woman, if and when women are more in the security, cyber security, IT technology sectors, they are more sensitive. They are more like maybe natural in their dealings, like mother protection. So more protective, so there is less risk than where it is now. So to increase the gender equality, both not burden on the woman, you know, where it's the water scarcity that woman has to carry the burden. Girls, even five, seven years old, when developing countries, when it comes to developing countries, and then if the girls are, and also that was staggering. Stats he gave sort of shocked me today because he is a professor at SUNY. So what I mean by that, he said one of his class has only four girls out of 31. of his class has only one girl. One of his class doesn't have no girl. So even though if if girls are girls are not getting in this field, how we gonna bring the gender balance in all cross-cutting sectors of society. So that's how both from the UN perspective, the dedication team, also cybersecurity, the profile from a university that girls are not showing attention, interest studying cybersecurity. That was the fact based on his class last semester. One Michael Hingson  56:46 of the things that you have done, as I understand, is you've written several books. Bircan Unver  56:53 Yes, there are more, but hopefully I could get work on them, publish them as well. The my first book was Michael, based on my interviews with artists and my reviews on art exhibits, and also when I had questionnaire surveys like with artists, galleries, academicians, professors, students. When I before my first life prior prior the U.S. So when I went back after four years and I was really eager to get in a job for as a TV producer and somewhat that didn't work despite all my efforts even I my project load and everyone was after me, but they want to take the project, but not give me the role what I deserve for. So then I kind of close myself, and then I said I want to compile my books, my articles, my interviews. So that was how my first book came about in Turkish. To create is the most sacred. So, like the value to give the highest value for the creativity, intellectual production. That is through all those interviews, reviews, and questions. So that's that was the first book. The second book is in a way a bridge again between U.S. and Istanbul, New York and Istanbul, or maybe L.A. New York and Istanbul. Because when I came in, also I've done freelance journalism, so I wrote some you know reviews and the magazine. I used to, you know, send and appear my interviews and reviews. So and it was include not too frequent, but it was include some of major exhibits, both from LA and also from the Metropolitan Museum in MoMA in New York. Also Turkish artists here. So I met them, you know, when I was living. I started living in here. So then I a combination of those, and also that was another metaphor developed in my mind when I was Istanbul. I was feeling like the labyrinths of arts. So that's my second book title in Turkish labyrinths in arts. So like you are like this kind of narrow and small world in Istanbul art worlds and very high competition, and then nobody expanding to New York and LA expansion means bringing some, for instance, Franz Bacon, Thomas Hart Benton, and Max Ernst and Marina Magritte. Those also the last part connecting with the New York Istanbul from my art based on my art background. Michael Hingson  59:51 So, were any of the books published in English? The Bircan Unver  59:54 last 120, 23 is English, but. It is a compilation concept is written me. I directed the project, and of course I have some pieces also beside the concept. But it is a compilation by 24 contributors. It is based on the JUC Media Research Writing Awards 2021 and 2023 High School Awards Project, and also it is also engaging the youth to involve the UN programs at an early age and encourage them award them. So that also the next one is going to be on the Water Action Decatur in the same line, same concept, and also I have a book project since 2022 I couldn't still 2022 2020 actually. I dream, therefore I am. I have 80% of the book manuscript is ready, but I couldn't finalize it, and so the other one also I was hoping but couldn't to have a book for the 25th anniversary of the latentium. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. It's a little bit seemingly not going to happen this year to come up 25th anniversary of late millennium, but I had 20 anniversary of the late millennium in Turkish, and so this is completely different issue because I introduced like Millennium both in Turkish and in English, so it's like Tiffany Sister is the Turkish one, and then I formed Turkish sister in 2010, and then so on the 20th anniversary of the Turkish organization, as it is association, official association. So I compile the first part, the concept vision, very much like Millennium, because it's the system. But the second part based on the programs, activities, and challenges in Istanbul. So this book also in English will be first the the manifesto and the first all the history will be very much in English, the original one. But the second part is going to be completely, you know, selected ideas and projects and programs from the website and public programs from the last 20-five years, and it's hard hard things to do. It it's very challenging. I couldn't do it. Michael Hingson  1:02:47 It's it's a lot of work. Well, Berjan, I I want to tell you that we have now been talking for more than an hour. Time flies when you're having fun. Man, I'm going to go. I'm going to have to go ahead and and end our time, but we'll have to do this again and and continue the discussion. But I really appreciate you taking the time to be here, and I hope that people will monitor your programs and and and read your books if they can read Turkish or English, whichever works. Troy Bircan Unver  1:03:18 has so many English pieces, and now everyone welcome to look out our website. And what's the Michael Hingson  1:03:26 website again? Bircan Unver  1:03:28 lmglobal.org. Michael Hingson  1:03:32 lmglobal.org. Okay. Bircan Unver  1:03:34 Yes, but the whole archive from 2019 to 2000 no, 2019 no. of course not 2019 1999 to 2018 The archive. Our initial website is light millennium.org Millennium is with double N double N. So the everything we are talking about, all the process, our UN programs, and the reports from the UN NGO briefings, some conferences we participated. If anyone has any question, I'll be happy to provide the link and you know to contact them. Michael Hingson  1:04:17 And we will put that information in the show notes, the notes for the podcast. So I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely informative. I really appreciate your time, and I hope the programs continue to go well. So I want to thank you again for being here, and this has just been a lot of fun. Bircan Unver  1:04:39 Thank you so much, Michael Kingston, it is great honor and privilege. Especially, you are a hero, and your your story is amazing, and you are also taking really one of the challenges works like producing these programs, and we never met in real life. And then this is also like Millennium and your work. How we connected through? Otherwise, there was no like regular environment or database environment that we could meet. Your work and your dedication and your inspiring contribution really connected us and bring us together in this session. Thank you, and I'm really grateful for that. Michael Hingson  1:05:29 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset

Some conversations stay with me long after they end, and this is one of them. I had the opportunity to sit down with Justin Breen for a thoughtful discussion about resilience, intuition, healing, and what it really means to keep moving forward when life completely changes. Justin shares how growing up with a World War II hero as his father shaped his perspective, why he believes many visionaries feel misunderstood, and how his own journey through entrepreneurship, loss, and personal transformation led him to a deeper understanding of purpose. We also explore guide dogs, fear, 9/11, artificial intelligence, and the importance of listening to your heart instead of getting trapped in overthinking. I believe you will find this conversation both thought-provoking and encouraging, especially if you're searching for meaning, healing, or a new way to look at life's greatest challenges. Highlights: 00:53 - Why choosing hard challenges builds resilience. 11:18 - Why many visionaries feel misunderstood. 20:29 - How resilience keeps you moving forward. 31:10 - Why trusting your intuition matters. 42:22 - Why healing yourself comes first. 58:27 - How AI reflects the person using it. About the Guest: Justin Breen's next book*, Epic Journey*, will feature an introduction from Dr. Deepak Chopra. The book also will be turned into a documentary with star actor Gary Sinise providing the narration. Breen also is Co-Founder of Corvia.AI, an education platform that teaches participants how to create songs using artificial intelligence. Breen's second book, Epic Life, featured a foreword from Dr. Peter Diamandis and has been the No. 1 overall book for sales on Amazon Kindle. It also made the Wall Street Journal and USA Today Bestseller lists. Ways to connect with Justin**:** Apply to join Epic F.I.T. Network —-> www.TheEpicFit.com Book a phone call --> https://calendly.com/justinbreen/connection-call  Wall Street Journal-USA Today Best-Selling Book "Epic Life" --> https://lnkd.in/gKb5Reff Do you have Visionary, Abundance, Investment Mindset? --> https://www.kys.coach/96382a667b443f0e Interview with Strategic Coach Founder Dan Sullivan —> https://apple.co/3bktbcL Interview with Abundance 360 Founder Peter Diamandis --> https://lnkd.in/edg7yVu Interview with Shannon Waller's Team Success --> https://lnkd.in/dEJfMD2p Interview with Jay Abraham and Nick Sonnenberg --> https://lnkd.in/gzN2e5Kf Interview with Dave Will for Entrepreneurs' Organization EO 360 podcast --> https://entrepreneursorg.libsyn.com/justin-breen About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

AI is changing business faster than ever, but the real advantage still comes from people. I had the pleasure of talking with Lars Helgeson, entrepreneur, technologist, and author of CRM for Dummies, about how customer relationship management, artificial intelligence, and patient education are reshaping the way businesses and healthcare providers serve people. Lars shares how his career evolved from building one of the early email marketing platforms to creating CRM solutions and, more recently, a patient education platform designed to improve health outcomes after medical procedures. We also explore the opportunities and risks of AI, why relationships remain at the heart of every business, and how technology should support people rather than replace them. I believe you'll find practical ideas about leadership, innovation, healthcare, and building stronger customer relationships that can help you develop your own Unstoppable Mindset. Highlights: 02:08 - How AI helps build stronger customer relationships. 12:13 - Why AI should never replace medical judgment. 27:01 - How CRM evolved beyond email marketing. 38:47 - Why patient education became Lars' mission. 45:00 - Why accountability starts with good documentation. 55:00 - How small changes improve patient outcomes. About the Guest: Lars Helgeson is an internet entrepreneur, technologist, and CRM strategist dedicated to helping organizations grow through what he calls “Complete CRM”, a unified, data-driven approach that connects sales, marketing, customer service, and operations into one accountable system. He entered the internet marketing world in 2000, co-founding CoolerEmail, one of the world's first email service providers. As a pioneer in responsible email marketing, he helped grow CoolerEmail into a global software company specializing in marketing communication with over 1,500 clients. In 2010, after years spent designing and implementing a more comprehensive approach for small and mid-sized businesses, Lars launched GreenRope, a cloud-based platform that simplifies and consolidates a company's sales, marketing, and operations. Today, GreenRope provides technology solutions to more than 3,000 companies and nonprofits in over 40 countries. His new venture, Easy Aftercare, focuses on using CRM technology for automated patient education. Lars is the author of CRM For Dummies (Wiley, 2017) and a frequent speaker on CRM strategy, marketing automation, entrepreneurship, and business growth. His guiding principle is straightforward: “If it isn't in the CRM, it didn't happen.” He earned B.S. and M.S. degrees in Mechanical Engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and an MBA from the University of New Mexico's Robert O. Anderson School of Management. After graduate school, he served four years in the U.S. Air Force, working in the Air Force's space test program, the Air Force Research Laboratory, and the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization. Raised in Southern California, he credits a science-teacher father for curiosity and a social-worker mother for empathy, an influence that shows up in his people-first view of technology. Outside of work, he enjoys travel, stand-up paddleboarding, mountain biking, ice hockey, and yoga. Ways to connect with Lars**:** https://www.easyaftercare.com https://www.instagram.com/easy.aftercare/ https://www.facebook.com/easyaftercare https://www.linkedin.com/company/easy-aftercare About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Great leaders know when to push and when to pause. That balance sits at the heart of my conversation with former college basketball coach Tommy Brown. Tommy shares how growing up with dyslexia and ADHD helped build the grit that shaped his career but also taught him that toughness alone is never enough. You will hear why empathy is the missing piece in leadership, how putting the team ahead of yourself changes everything, and why failure only becomes real when you stop learning. Tommy also opens up about coaching, personal setbacks, the lessons he learned from his rescue dogs, and how those experiences inspired his message of "Be the Thumb." I believe you will find practical ideas you can apply whether you're leading a business, coaching a team, or simply trying to become a better person. Highlights: 00:01:15 – How growing up with dyslexia and ADHD helped build lifelong grit and resilience. 00:22:30 – Why empathy became Tommy's greatest leadership lesson after decades of coaching. 00:24:39 – The powerful story behind "flipping the switch" between grit and empathy. 00:36:43 – Why mental toughness and mental health are not the same thing. 00:46:12 – The coaching lesson that taught Tommy to stop complaining and simply "figure it out." 00:58:13 – The personal leadership failure that forever changed the way Tommy leads others. About the Guest: Tommy Brown is a former college basketball coach turned motivational speaker, author, and founder of One Heartbeat LLC, a leadership and culture-building organization that has worked with more than 1,000 athletic teams and countless business leaders across 43 states. Over his 20-year coaching career, Tommy earned 389 wins, 13 consecutive 20-win seasons, six Conference Coach of the Year honors, and the 2008 NAIA National Coach of the Year award. His leadership journey has taken him from the Big Ten to small college locker rooms—always centered on one mission: to build teams with grit, empathy, and purpose. Tommy's message reaches far beyond the court. After years of studying what separates teams that survive from those that thrive, he founded One Heartbeat to help coaches, athletes, and corporate leaders cultivate mental toughness, teamwork, and trust. His signature Warrior Culture Sessions empower participants to embrace both toughness and compassion as essential traits for sustained success. He is also the author of Grundy and Sadie: Unleashing the Power of Grit and Empathy, inspired by his two dogs—a rescue Pitbull named Grundy and a Goldendoodle named Sadie—whose contrasting personalities teach powerful lessons about leadership, resilience, and relationships. Tommy's work has led to the creation of The Be Grundy Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that helps young women develop grit, resilience, and self-worth through sports and wellness initiatives, while also supporting animal rescue efforts. A Chattanooga native, Tommy's story reflects the lessons he teaches: that real strength isn't just about toughness—it's about flipping the switch between grit and empathy to bring out the best in yourself and others. Ways to connect with Tommy**:** https://oneheartbeatwarriors.com/ Instagram and YouTube page: @oneheartbeatwarriors https://a.co/d/9On1mUT About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Every animal is telling you something. The real question is whether you're paying attention. I sit down with animal behavior expert Hanne Grice to explore what our pets reveal about trust, stress, communication, and even ourselves. Drawing on nearly 20 years of experience, Hanne explains why behavior is never random, why outdated dominance theories continue to harm animals, and how curiosity leads to better relationships with both pets and people. We also discuss guide dogs, emotional regulation, grief, parenting with dogs, and the science behind building trust through predictability and choice. I believe you'll find this conversation valuable whether you share your life with animals or simply want to become a better leader, communicator, and observer of those around you Highlights: 05:47 – The biggest breakthrough in animal behavior starts with changing the human. 09:35 – A common belief about dog dominance is challenged by modern science. 20:34 – Jane Goodall's work transformed how we understand animal emotions and personalities. 31:02 – Hidden medical issues often explain behaviors owners mistake for disobedience. 45:14 – Giving animals more choice can reduce stress and strengthen trust. 58:21 – Remarkable stories show how animals have influenced history in unexpected ways. About the Guest: Hanne Grice is a UK Clinical Animal Behaviourist, Certified Trainer, and award-winning educator who specialises in the science of human–animal relationships. She founded Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour in 2006 and has supported thousands of families across dogs, cats, and small companion animals. Her work centres on evidence informed welfare, behaviour change, and practical strategies that help people and their animals nurture stable, healthy relationships. Alongside clinical practice, Hanne lectures at the postgraduate level in applied animal behaviour, human–animal interactions, and the psychology that shapes how people understand and interact with their pets. She previously served on the Board of the UK's Animal Behaviour and Training Council. When her tenure concluded in July 2025, she was appointed an Honorary Individual Member in recognition of her outstanding contribution to the charity's mission to raise and protect professional standards. Hanne is known for making science accessible. Her “How Does…” series explores everyday behaviour across species, and her “Animals in History” films examine the remarkable roles animals have played across cultures and time. She is the author of Playing with Your Dog (2010), a practical guide to enriching the lives of companion animals through evidence-informed play. Her research includes studies on dog–owner relationships during pregnancy and early parenthood, as well as ongoing work on behaviour change techniques for animal professionals. She continues to develop tools that bring together behavioural science, practical welfare, and effective communication, helping owners and practitioners create environments where animals feel safe, understood, and able to thrive. Ways to connect with Hanne**:** Hanne Grice YouTube: Hanne Grice Pet Training & Behaviour - YouTube Facebook: Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour Instagram: Hanne Grice on Instagram LinkedIn: Hanne Grice | LinkedIn TikTok: Hanne Grice (@hannegrice) | TikTok https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhiktobqDFUSrjuXKBQUW_xyz&si=T9593esdANzVVYoM https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhik4U80OJWUMHd5JwbDNZbwd&si=atOLyb_foY_7AVjs   https://learn.hannegrice.com/ https://shophannegrice.com/ https://amzn.to/4pxuzfv  About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, I am Mike Hingson, or you can call me Michael Hingson, just to make sure you get the Hingson part right. I am the host of Unstoppable Mindset, and today we get to chat with Hanne Grice from over in the well, across the pond, shall we say. So it's later in the evening there, and she was just telling me that her children celebrate Christmas tomorrow because they also have another Christmas to celebrate on Thursday, so I might be jealous. It is being recorded by the way two days before Christmas in 2025 and we're looking forward to it. Hannah is an animal behavior, she's an expert in all of that. She's done a program called How Does, which I'm interested to learn more about. She is also founded other organizations dealing with training, I think, probably more humans than pets, but all about pet training and developing relationships. Just before we came on, we were talking about a couple of our kiddies, and I should tell you, Hanne, I had a guide dog, my second guide dog, Holland, who was a golden retriever, lived 15 years, so he lived a long time, and was actually three weeks from retirement when he collapsed, and I think had a stroke and a heart attack, and the vet said we could bring him back, but he wouldn't have a good quality of life, so, but we were only without a guide dog for three weeks, but anyway, with all that aside, Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Hanne Grice  02:34 Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor, and I'm sorry to hear about Holland. So, thank you for sharing that. Michael Hingson  02:42 Well, here's a wonderful puppy dog, and now we have Alamo, who will be 10 years old on the 14th of May, and he will have been a guide dog for me for eight years on the 24th of February, and that's especially interesting because the 24th of February is my birthday, so I regard Alamo as a wonderful birthday present, which is kind of cool. Speaker 1  03:17 That is cool. And how long, Michael, would you typically have a guide dog for when do they typically retire. Michael Hingson  03:24 Typically it's an average thing. It really is all a question of how the guide dog is doing, and so on, because it's a very stressful job, but it's also up to me to keep the stress as low as possible. But typically it's, it's six to eight years, and I expect Alamo to work and be around for quite a while, yet he's just doing really well and isn't showing much age, and I'm happy with that. And then Stitch is going to be 16 in January, so we guess we rescued her back in 2015 and and so she's she's been around, and the two get along pretty well together. They don't chase each other or anything like that, but, but they do communicate, and they talk, and they touch noses, and all that. And every so often, Stitch steals Alamos bed, and poor Alamo doesn't know what to do about it, because Stitch has claws, and he knows it. So he just goes and finds another place to collapse until she leaves. Speaker 1  04:20 Yeah, cats and dogs, they find a way, but two of the species that I work very closely with, so yeah, and a testament to the quality and type of relationship that you have with them, that they're aging so well. So that's great to hear. Michael Hingson  04:36 One of the things that I insist on when I'm having to get a new guide dog, which I don't anticipate doing for a long time yet, but one of the things that I insist is that any guide dog I get has to have been raised around cats and get along with cats. I've seen a couple of guide dogs that are cat haters, and I would never want that kind of thing, especially when it's such an. Easy distraction when that happens. Speaker 1  05:02 Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine what it'd be like if suddenly you're finding yourself careering down the street, right? My dog was chasing the neighbor's cat, not good, not good for any of the animals or human involved. So, yeah, Michael Hingson  05:15 my fourth guide dog, Lynn, loved to chase rabbits, now not out of any kind of meanness or anything like that. She just wanted friends, and she loved to visit my first guide dog, Squire, when we were in Boy Scouts, and went to a camp one on a camping trip one weekend. Actually, caught a road runner, and we discovered that the road runner had a broken leg, but we fixed it, and the road runner took off, but again he just wanted to talk. He never hated any animal, and you know, none of my guide dogs have ever done anything, except they've never known a stranger. Everyone is a friend to them, people in and animals, which is great, Speaker 1  05:58 and that's what I love about my job, Michael, because I am, and you said at the start I'm working with animals, but predominantly it's the humans that engage my services, it's the humans that are looking for help and support with their animals, and so when any of my students or young and aspiring clinical behaviorists or trainers say to me, "Oh, I want to do this job because I love animals. I don't like people. I always say, well, you're going to be in the wrong job. You have to like humans as well, because they're the ones that really you're working with to help change their animals' behavior, and they pay the bills. Michael Hingson  06:36 Well, since you do work a lot with training animals and so on. Have you had any success at training politicians? I mean, there's an animal for you. Speaker 1  06:44 I have had all sorts of clients on my books, from the rich and famous to sportsmen and politicians, so I can't disclose names. However, what I will say is I have successfully used my effective consulting skills on humans to reframe, because actually, if we think about when they engage my services, usually it's because there's a fractured pet owner relationship. For example, you might have a dog that's lunging at other dogs, or you know, the cat that's attacking another cat in the household, and by the time they come to me, they're really frustrated. They're labeling their animals as naughty, and actually, my role is to take an investigative approach, look at all the evidence, and help the clients understand, you know, why the animals are doing what they're doing, what's the function, and usually we start to see that human mindset shift when they have that understanding, and that's incredibly powerful, because you know once we get that human understanding, the behavior change in animals then follows, so it really does begin with the insight in the humans. Michael Hingson  08:04 Really good point. I've seen a lot of people interacting with guide dogs, and some of them get very nervous, especially when they get lost or something isn't going exactly the way they want. When the reality is that nervousness translates to the dog, and the fact is that the dog gets stressed out because their person is stressed out, and I think there's a lot of truth to what the dog whisperer, Caesar Milano, says, is that it's that the dogs are looking for a pack leader, they want the humans to do it, but when some of these people get so nervous, they stress out the dogs, and that has a significant effect on the lifespan. A guiding is is very stressful, and the dogs take it very seriously and want to do a good job, and they want to know that they're doing a good job, and if you get stressed, Michael Hingson  08:59 it's a problem. Speaker 1  09:00 Absolutely, what I would say is it's more scientific in the sense that when we look at the evidence out there in terms of how our animals influence us and vice versa, it tends to be much more subtle. Michael Hingson  09:18 Yeah, Speaker 1  09:19 for example, animals do act as a stress buffering mechanism, for example, if we're feeling worried about something or unsettled, if we see our dog lying, you know, calmly by our feet, we're going to pick up on those cues, and that will help us settle, and there's a good amount of evidence, as you'll be aware, Michael, of, you know, how animals can lower our heart rates, our breathing rates, they can reduce our stress hormone levels, but what's interesting is that doesn't happen in isolation, and over time humans and their animals do fall into these shared rhythms, like you're talking about. So essentially, we are synchronizing things like our routine, our movement. Our emotional states, and so that synchrony does work both ways, and when to your point, as our stress levels rise or our routines become unstable, absolutely our animals will often reflect that, and it's not about leadership at all, it's actually about emotional, our emotional regulation, or inability to regulate that, exactly Michael Hingson  10:23 right, Speaker 1  10:24 or have stable routines, and you know, certainly we saw the impact animals had for us during the pandemic, you know, lots of people lost that social contact, they lost their structure, and so their animals became anchors for routine and emotional stability, so this also helps explain why researchers, as well as our lived experiences, show that attachment to our pets can rival or even exceed some of those that we form with people, and that also explains why when we look at grief, when we lose a pet, and you talked about your gorgeous Holland, and you know your previous guide dogs, you know that that loss of a pet can be as intense as you know when we lose a close friend and a partner. So, back to what you were saying, yes, there's lots of evidence to show heart variability synchronizes, you know, cortisol blood cortisol levels will synchronize, you know, but it's, it's more than sort of some of the popular culture would have us believe in terms of alpha and leader, and I think if there's one thing I could burst a bubble on, it would be around that notion about that the dog is trying to dominate us or take control, and the reason being is because it all comes down to some outdated and flawed research from the 1940s that was then attempted to replicate in the 70s, and as I said, the research design was deeply flawed. It was mixing captive balls from different groups together, so, of course, there's going to be fighting, and so I guess for anyone listening, I would like them to just be really aware that dominance isn't a personality trait, it simply describes a relationship between individuals in a specific context, so when your dog is sat next to you at home, they're not plotting to take over the household, they're not like, you know, Dr. Evil in Austin Powers, they're not trying to take over the world, they're when we see the behaviors like the chasing after the road runner, or the lead pulling after the neighbor's cat, or the growling when they're being touched for grooming, or when they're guarding objects, those behaviors are usually linked to fear or frustration, learning history, even pain, and so when we look through things with a dominance lens, that alpha lens, it attempts to explain animal behavior without actually helping the animal. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, so when we fish shift, I should say our focus to understanding what's actually driving that behavior, how is that environment, or how's the handling from that individual contributing or compounding the issues that people are coming to me to get help with? You know, what does the animal need to learn instead? Then we get actually better welfare outcomes and much more reliable behavior change done in a science-led, ethical, humane way. Michael Hingson  13:45 Well, I was talking about Squire chasing the Roadrunner. It is my, and it's always been my opinion that Squire was the first one to see that that that bird was injured, and I am absolutely certain that he would never have been able to catch the road runner if that road runner had been able to go at full speed, but the, but the bird had a broken leg, and we fixed it, you know, we taped it, we split it, and then the bird ran away, and Squire didn't, didn't follow it, but I think that there was a sense, and I'm still convinced to this day that that was the case, and I don't want my dogs to be afraid. My previous guide dog to Alamo, actually not even Africa, but going back to Roselle, who was with me in the World Trade Center, Roselle was afraid of thunder. Now she didn't start out being afraid of thunder, but we really didn't know how to deal with it, probably correctly, and she developed this phobia, so that she could even sense when a storm was coming before it got to us, and we worked to calm her down as much as we could, but she was our early warning system for. Storms, and you know, but that was also one of the reasons that I knew on september 11 that we were going, you know, that we didn't have to just rush out of the office like crazy people, because she wasn't reacting after the building was struck, she wasn't reacting with any kind of fear evidence at Speaker 2  15:24 all. Michael Hingson  15:24 Mostly she was yawning and going, "Who woke me up? You know, and, and the bottom line is that she didn't sense anything, and I wasn't smelling any smoke, and I knew that whatever was going on wasn't such an imminent emergency that we couldn't try to evacuate in an orderly way, and, and that's what happened, but I, you know, I have a question for you. How did all this start for you? So, tell us a little bit about the early Hanne growing up, and how did you get into the whole idea of dealing with animals and starting this whole process? Speaker 1  15:56 Well, partly stories like yours, fascinating, absolutely fascinating. Um, so as a child I, there's a big age gap between my brother and my sister and I. So I was the youngest, and I was always fascinated with human animal interactions anyway, but because I think my siblings, where they were so much older, my animals were really my constant companions, and so that's where the deep love of a range of species started, and I was very lucky in that I think because there was such an age gap and my brother and sister weren't around, my parents were sort of, yeah, you can have another rabbit, you can have a stick insect, and it was kind of just keep it quiet, and then I'd be busy with my animals, and then as I sort of grew up, became more aware, as you do, into your sort of preteens and then teens, was really interested in watching how people behaved around their pets, which comes back to some of the stuff you were saying earlier, doesn't it, and I became really curious as to why someone could describe themselves as an animal lover, yet use methods or make choices that clearly compromised the animal's welfare, so that really fascinated me, and I can't pinpoint it to a single defining moment, but certainly I wasn't fortunate to, unlike my students nowadays, because I also lecture, they can do what I do as a degree. When I was growing up, it was vet or very nursing, so it took a while before I could viably get onto the degrees and masters to specialize, but I think for me what continues to motivate, and I'll be 20 years in practice in 2026 is the, the impact, positive impact my role can have on the human animal relationship, in the sense that you know they can, they can come to me, and they're at the brink of despair, the clients, because they've maybe looked at the internet, they've asked well-meaning friends, they may have gone to other professionals, and nothing seems to be working. And actually, you know, it takes further exploration. I can detect stuff that might not be picked up before, because I'm taking like a detective approach, looking at medical history, looking at the owner reporting, asking questions, observing the animal, and all of that information can then lead me to determine, okay, what's going on, and how we approach it, and so when done robustly and systematically that shift in the relationship starts to improve, because they better understand one another, and when an animal starts to go, "Hey, you're listening to me, you're getting what I mean when I kind of do x, y, or z in terms of behavior. That's when the shift happens, and for me, the magic and what really motivates me doing this job day in day out is improving the human animal relationship. Michael Hingson  19:06 Was there any defining moment that caused you to say, yeah, this is exactly what I want to do with the rest of my life, or was it just sort of a gradual thing? Speaker 1  19:17 Oh golly, I mean that for me it's it's a bit like, you know, if you ask something, somebody like an artist to do a painting, at the end of it, there's the finished picture, and for me, I liken it, it's like lots of little building blocks to get to that end picture. For me, the magic really is, is seeing a fractured relationship repair and be better than it was, and so there's been many, many moments over 20 years in my career where that's happened, and those glimmers, as I call them, of what I celebrate, and it's very easy for us all, isn't it, to have those negative ninny moments, those imposter sounds. Syndrome moments, and I hold on to all the reviews, or the little texts that I get when my clients go, "Hey, I walked past another dog, and my dog kept his call, you know, yay, you know, they're the things that drive me and motivate me to keep going, because some of the cases I work with are really heavy, you know, take quite a lot of emotional toll, and I guess that's the stuff that you know the every person doesn't see with clinical behaviorists, is that we do lay in bed at night worrying about other people and their animals. Michael Hingson  20:30 Yeah, I know what you're saying. Coincidentally, just this morning I was reading an article about people we lost in 2025 and of course, one of the people mentioned one of the trailblazers, as the New York Times put it, was Jane Goodall. Have did you ever meet her? Have you had any interactions with her? Because one of the things that they talked about was that she took a completely different approach to interacting with chimpanzees and truly developed a personal relationship. She named them, and she became accepted by them. That really was.. I don't want to say amazing, because I don't think that kind of thing is amazing, but that really just told me how much she obviously understood. Did you ever meet her, or get to deal with her at all? Speaker 1  21:20 I really wish that would have been amazing. Jane Goodall is one of the most inspiring people, you know, in my opinion, and I'm really glad you mentioned her, Michael, because she, her work really paved the way for us to understand back in the 70s, really, that animals have personalities. Michael Hingson  21:45 Yeah, Speaker 1  21:46 because it was, it was months and years of taking things really slowly, being really unintrusive, observing. It took many years for her to be accepted around the truth, because they can be really dangerous animals, and so, and that was a really good example, you know. I was saying earlier about taking things slowly and systematically, and she recognized that chimpanzees were individuals, they had different emotions, just like us, they had different personality types that didn't really change as they grew, and it was through her work, particularly with one called David Graybeard, that led to her sort of gaining more public awareness, and she had her critics, you know, at the time they thought she, oh Michael Hingson  22:35 sure, Speaker 1  22:36 she was a bit like Diane Posse, they thought she was some sort of crazy lady who was terribly anthropomorphic, and that wasn't the case at all. No, so you know it's it's real leaders in, in the field, like Jane Goodall and the Diane Fosses, that that has paved the way for the likes of me to then go, yes, our animals have emotions. It wasn't, you know, Darwin led the way in the 1800s with the first idea of this, but you know it's not that long ago that really we thought animals were just unthinking, you know, blobs that you know were incapable of feeling pain, and sadly even today in social media we see some awful advice given out to cat or dog owners about how you deal with problems in order to have a quick fix, you know, and that's not the case at all. So, yeah, I'm really happy you brought her up, because, yeah, amazing lady. Michael Hingson  23:35 Well, I don't remember exactly when it occurred, it was sometime when I was 10 or 11, sometime in the very early 60s. She came and lectured in the area where I grew up, in the Antelope Valley, and my parents and I did go to see her. I don't remember anything about the lecture, but it was.. I know it was.. it was interesting, and I wish I could remember more of it, but that was the only time that we were ever close to her, but it was, it was fascinating, and of course, knowing about her life and the things that she did, I absolutely understand and agree with you. When I worked, which I did for Guide Dogs for the Blind for six and a half years, we lived in Northern California, about seven miles from Guide Dogs for the Blind, and literally just down the street from the Marin Humane Society, which is one of the more famous and well-known organizations of its type in the United States, and talking to some of their people, they, they said, How so often it's not really training the animals that is what we're dealing with here, it's training the humans, and it is because it's the humans that really need to get a clue and understand that these animals have as much of a personality and as much knowledge to share. As we do, and are born with more instincts, and we could learn to listen to our own instincts, if we would observe these dogs a whole lot more, and these animals a whole lot more than we do. Now, I don't know about cats, but you know that's another story. Speaker 1  25:13 Yeah, yeah, we often like to label. Yeah, that's fascinating. That's super cool that you got to see her in the 60s, even if you can't remember what she said, that's really impressive. I remember Michael Hingson  25:28 doing it, but that was about that's about it, actually. Speaker 2  25:32 Yeah, wow, that's Michael Hingson  25:33 kind of fun. Yeah, if Speaker 3  25:38 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week. We've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you. You'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset community, Michael Hingson  26:11 but you know the fact is that animals really can contribute a whole lot more to our lives than we think, and we just need to be the ones to take the initiative and develop the relationships. I talk to people all the time about dogs, and I say that dogs, and I firmly believe, do love unconditionally, unless there's some horrible thing that happened to them that that affects their, their views, but dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. The difference, though, between dogs and people is that dogs are more open to trust, and they want to develop that trusting relationship. And if we would learn to do that as well, it would be such a wonderful thing. Now it can be that you will like with human to human trust, you might find that somebody doesn't earn your trust. That's okay. Then you move on, but we need to learn to be more open to trust than we than we tend to be. Speaker 1  27:14 Yeah, absolutely. Really well said. And you know, in terms of how do we develop secure, healthy bonds between us and our animals. It's built on several things, and that includes predictability, responsiveness, and emotional safety. That's your trust bed, isn't it? And so one of the clearest findings that we have from attachment research is that animals cope better when they can predict how their humans going to respond. Michael Hingson  27:46 Yes, Speaker 1  27:47 and when their attempts at communication are noticed and make sense to the animals. So, for example, in everyday life, you know, this might look like your dog pausing or turning their head when we're reaching out to stroke them, or it might be the cat choosing to leave a stroke as you're attempting to reach out to their cheek, and how we recognize this as the human would be to go, "Oh, okay, I'm going to ease off, because clearly you know you're turning your head, you're lip licking, that's telling me you'd rather I stop trying to reach out to pet your head or the cat walking way, I'm going to allow you to do that pussy cat rather than follow you and try and pick you up and give you a cuddle. So when handlers respond in those ways to their animals responses, the animals learn very quickly, hey, my communication works, and then that understanding strengthens the animal owner relationship, and another thing that plays into that, which is what I'm always talking to clients about, is processing time plays an important role in building healthy, secure relations, because often animals need much longer to take in information or decide how to respond, particularly if they're feeling emotionally aroused, unsafe, or trying to learn something new. And when we rush them, and a real good example of this is some my clients will ask the dog to sit, and if the dog doesn't do it within a split second, they're going sit, sit, they're repeating the cue over and over again, and that unintentionally puts pressure rather than giving clarity to the dog, and it can then often lead to confusion and even frustration, and that's going to show up behaviorally, so for example, we may end up with the dog, then jumping up at the owner or grabbing the lead and ragging it. So, I always say, look, if we slow down, if we allow space for the animal to process what we're asking them to do, if we respond calmly and consistently to their subtle cues that they communicate through body language. And so on, animals begin to expect safety rather than threat from us, and that expectation therefore reduces things like stress. It supports learning, it makes behavior much more resilient, because the relationship itself is secure, and these are the same principles that sit at the heart of child-parent attachment, where there's predictability, there's responsive caregiving, and that helps the child feel safe enough to explore and learn. Michael Hingson  30:32 It's also just as relevant for any kind of teaming relationship, even within companies, and the true leaders of companies who catch on to these kinds of things and learn how to communicate and process to determine whether somebody is truly understanding what they're communicating or not is an extremely important thing, because the fact of the matter is none of this is overly magical, whether it is between human and animal or human and human, but we do need to recognize the values and what it really is is meaning when, for example, we don't react to someone not doing instantly what we say, which isn't the way to do it. Speaker 1  31:17 Absolutely, yeah, really good example using principles that we see in leadership, HR, you know, and that's why when they're recruiting, they spend so much time typically looking at personality types, how that's going to match with the team, you know, so yeah, really good point there, Michael, about leadership and the importance of that people centric approach, which I think, with you know, sadly, you know, not to go too political, we're seeing real crazy times Speaker 2  31:47 at the moment, Speaker 1  31:48 and a lack of true leadership with that empathetic, human-centric approach, whatever side of the political spectrum you sit on. Michael Hingson  31:57 Yeah, and it is, it's all over. I hope something will come and break that pattern and get people to recognize what really should work and what really does work well in your case, even when you walk into a home, what is it that you observe, or how do you determine how an animal feels for the first time when you come in and see them before you really even get a chance to talk with their people. Speaker 1  32:25 Yeah, that's a good question. Animals, you were talking about Brazil and thunder, and she pick up on, you know, atmospheric changes. We know that biometric changes are picked off on by many, many non-human animals, so because they communicate using a combination of sensory information, be it sense, sound, visual signaling. I can walk into a client's house and immediately pick up on something. So, I'll give you some real examples. I recently had a case with Dusty Gorgeous Cocker Spaniel, and I was called in because she had developed severe resource guarding, so she'd get really growly and snappy, and sometimes bite the owner when she'd taken something of theirs, and they were trying to take it off them. As soon as I walked into Dusty's home, I could smell her, I could smell her ears, and that led me to suspect straight away there's some sort of likely infection going on here, and so working collaboratively with the vet, as clinical animal behaviorists do, that was confirmed, and the level of pain she'd been experiencing turned out to be a significant, significant contributory factor in her case for guarding, because guarding of the items provided some form of emotional regulation, whereas you know from an outsider's perspective she might have just been labeled naughty and disobedient, which isn't the case at all. Another example is I'm always watching how an animal moves, or how the owner interacts with them. How the animal, therefore, responds in return. And I touched on, you know, predictability a moment ago. And many stress signs that our animals will give us are really subtle and often misinterpreted. So let's take zoomies, you know, when the dog goes crazy around the lounge, and they may be jumping all over the sofas, etc. or humping the visitor, you know, the leg when the person comes in. Frequently, that's labeled as over excitement, or even dominance. When in reality, these are really often indicators of stress or discomfort, and small details also matter, so for example, the holding of breath or an increased blink rate, turning away from an outstretched hand. You know, these are really kind of brief moments that can be missed, and yet they tell us a huge amount of information. About how that animal was feeling about that interaction at that moment in time, and more recently I had a couple of cats, different cat cases, but urinating around the home, you know, up toasters on beds and sofas and things like that, and when, because I work with clients all around the world, as well as the UK, I can't always physically be there in person, so I'm reviewing the footage, and they managed to capture video of the cats moving around their environment, and then also urinating in their litter tray, and straight away I could spot the position of the whiskers, the eye shape, the ear position, the tension in the muzzle, the posture, and when they're moving around, and these were consistently scoring high on something called the cat groom miss scale, and that's a validated pain assessment Michael Hingson  35:54 tool. Speaker 1  35:54 So all of that information provided further investigation for the bet, and again, medical conditions are identified, and clearly you've got learning occurring anyway. So, there's always the behavior modification side, but these are just with dusty in the cat examples showing how there's often some other stuff like medical bits and bobs that are compounding the issues as well. Often I might be in a situation where you know the dog is belching or they're gnawing at their paws or their franks. Now that in itself can indicate perhaps gustatory issues or skin problems, but also context is critical because that's if that's happening when I'm there it could also be a stress sign, yeah, because an unfamiliar person, me, is present, so I'm looking at patterns, and does that happen when visitors aren't there, and and so on, and so on. So I come back to what I said earlier, really, it's like a detective, you're looking at all the evidence and piecing that together, and that then helps us understand what function is that undesirable behavior serving, whether that's the cat, you know, urinating against the toaster, or the rabbit scratching or biting the human. Michael Hingson  37:14 Well, so I've mentioned Roselle, one of the things that I was told when I first met Roselle, was she likes to steal socks, and, and I found that to be true. She loved to steal them and hide them, and that was it. She never chewed them up, but it, it really was a game, and we, we found socks in very strange places, and she actually, a couple times, stole my wife's slippers, but again, she stole them, and she hid them, and it was, she, she was very proud of herself. She thought it was a fun game, and you know, we never reacted negatively to it, because clearly it wasn't a bad thing. She didn't ever chew them up, so we knew it wasn't a bad thing, and we just accepted it as a game. Speaker 1  38:06 Yeah, yeah, and you know, partly if you think about, you know, her breed and species, partly that could be cashing, you know, partly it's fulfilling an entertainment function, as you said, a game, so yeah, and that will come down to her learning history before she came to you, and so on. So, yeah, really lovely example. She sounds like a complete poppet. Oh, Michael Hingson  38:28 I've always described her as a pixie by any standard, but, but yeah, she was, she was a wonderful dog, and the bottom line was it was also how we reacted to her, because if we had started to react in a negative way, that would have introduced stress, and that wouldn't have been a good thing either. Speaker 1  38:50 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, your story is is remarkable, and you talked about her and fireworks, yet she was so steady on that day, so I wonder, yeah, and I was just wondering, Michael, if, if I can ask you, you know, what do you think helped Friselle remain so steady in those conditions where many humans were being overwhelmed, understandably, on that day in 911 Michael Hingson  39:19 Well, I, I'm sure this won't totally surprise you, but I spent a lot of time before september 11 learning all I could about the World Trade Center, including what to do in the case of an emergency, and so I think that probably the most significant thing was probably Roselle was was looking at me and how I reacted and recognizing the fact that we do work and did work well as a team, so I wasn't panicking, and that helped her focus as well. Speaker 1  39:55 Yeah, and you know that's a really good example where you talked about. Up getting to know the environment, and kind of practicing, you know, going through those drills of what to do in an emergency, because I'm always saying to clients, repetition, consistency is the mother of success, you know. So, my goodness, did that pay off dividends, and you keeping your cool head, and both of you helping each other, amazing. Michael Hingson  40:21 Yeah, you've spent a lot of time studying kind of the transitions that that people go through, parenthood, children, pregnancy, and so on. How do dogs react to that? What are.. what are you.. what do you observe, or.. and what would you advise about that? Speaker 1  40:41 It's really interesting, Michael, because actually there's very little research out there in terms of what happens when a new baby arrives, you know, what happens to the family dog, and that's why I've explored it, and what stood out with my research, which looked at expectant parents and the other group with the postpartum parents, is that once baby arrives, and this won't be a surprise to anyone with children, but you know parents are spending understandably all their time focused on the baby, so what immediately happens is there's less time interacting with dogs, and so the biggest drop tends to be in the quality and type of interactions that are occurring, for example, walking durations, walking frequency, and also play, and the ones that stay in terms of the interactions that remain the same are the low effort ones, the quick ones, which is like stroking the dog or giving them a treat, and also my research found that many parents describe having huge levels of guilt once the baby arrived, because you know they are aware that now their dog, which may have been their fur baby, you know, the kind of surrogate child before the real one arrived, now was sort of come down a peg or two, and also what came out of my research is there's often because new parents are knackered, let's be honest, broken sleep is that they can easily become frustrated and sometimes the dog becomes the one that the frustration is directed at, and then layered on to that, we also have physiological stress synchrony. We were talking about synchrony between ourselves and our dogs, and an example is that research has found that when a baby cries, our blood cortisol level rises in the parents, but it also rises in the family dogs. Blood cortisol levels also rise. So, what that shows is, oh my goodness, you know, there's a significant impact on the new baby that has on the dog's day-to-day life, and it might not be obvious, because the dog may just kind of plod to the bed and rest, but there's all this other stuff going on that might not be obvious. So, the key takeaway from my research is that, you know, if you're having a baby and you have a dog, you know absolutely baby prep your dog for that change that's going to come, you know, especially if your dog has any problem behaviors, you know, be it pulling on the lead, they don't like visitors, you know, build support systems, so in less qualified humane, ethical trainers and behaviorists, dog walkers, so we've got some sort of routine, or in less family support or friends to help out, so there's some predictability, there's some quality one to one time for the dog once baby comes, and all of that, along with really good management of the home environment through dog ate safe zones, etc. for the dog and the baby, that's going to protect the pet's welfare, but it's also going to reduce the risk of behavior problems escalating. Michael Hingson  44:05 The other kind of thing that I can imagine will happen, hopefully more than not, is that the dog will bond or work to develop a bond with the new baby in the family. Speaker 1  44:18 Absolutely, and that's one of the most important things about baby prepping is that if we create some sort of understanding. Okay, I'm being exposed, let's say gently to baby sounds whilst I'm licking on this long-lasting chew, and this is quite nice, hearing this baby cry, you know. This recording, or I have, I joke, I have like a lending library with fake babies, you know, and my clients may think I'm mad to start, and very quickly they're realizing actually it's really good to train my dog to go and station on their mat while I'm carrying a baby or pretending to change the nappy on this fake baby, and the dog's learning I can, I can go to my mat and sit and settle while you know my own is doing this. Yes, and you know, so if we create that sort of learning, it's, it's not then such a shock to the dog, and I even get my clients practicing walking with a pram and the dog, because the dog's got to learn to walk nicely with the pram, you know, and inevitably, you know, the owners are accidentally running over the dog's paws to start, or just simple things, like, oh my gosh, I hadn't even thought about how do I get out the house with the baby, the dog, and the pram. So, sometimes just, just practicing, like you said, about getting to know the environment at the Twin Towers, it's really important to practice these things for real world, Michael Hingson  45:36 and the reality is, even a dog with a big long tongue isn't going to drown a baby, Speaker 1  45:42 of course. You know, and we know, and we absolutely know that those little ones that grow up with animals, particularly dogs, have really strong guts, micro, you know, flora, and so it's, it's helpful, you know, if they're sort of around the animals. So clearly we just got to be sensible in terms of managing the interactions, but absolutely I'm a huge fan of nurturing those dog baby buns, and do you know what one of the best things is when the baby throws some of that food onto the floor from the highchair when they're weeding, that's that's a sure far way for that dog to learn to love that baby, Michael Hingson  46:20 yeah, you know, there's nothing wrong with a little bribe every so often. Speaker 1  46:24 Pennies from heaven, I call it. Michael Hingson  46:27 That's right. What is the one behavior that you wish that people would just get rid of and not not have anymore? Speaker 1  46:37 Well, I talked about earlier in terms of myth busting and the busting, the myth about our dogs wanting to take over the world, and us needing to be sort of leaders, and that's not the case at all. I think, for me, it's the importance about agency and understanding what do we, what do we mean by giving our animals agency, so for example, you know, if our animal has some sort of influence over what happens to them, rather than just being passive receivers of what we're telling them what to do, if we give them choice, behavioral science and lived experience shows that absolutely that reduces uncertainty, and we know that uncertainty is a major driver of stress, so if we look at zoological settings, there's a Copenhagen Zoo, for example, give their guinea pigs choice whether to be petted or not, and how they do that is they bring out a carrier and the guinea pigs know that if they hop in the carrot carrier, it means they're going to go and see the kids, sit on the kids' laps, and they'll be petted, and so you'll have guinea pigs that rush into the carrier, and then you've got other guinea pigs who go, "Heck, not today, and those ones that choose not to go in the carrier are simply not handled, and then I've got peers of mine who work with dolphins, and they will show the dolphin picture of two of the trainers, and they'll let the dolphin decide who do they want to work with in that session. So that's an example of giving a dog adult dolphin and guinea pigs agency. Another one is in the states, so in the Smithsonian National Zoo and Toledo Zoo, they've specifically designed exhibits where orangutans can, by choice, spray the visitors with water. So, basically, the orangutans push a button, and that button causes a shower to go all over the visitors on the other side of the enclosure, so that acts as a form of enrichment, and it also provides a really neat way for the visitors to feel like they're directly connecting with the animals, so in all of those examples stress-related behaviors actually drop because the animals have choice, and so if we apply that principle to our pets at home, you know, agency would look like allowing the family dog to choose which way to walk occasionally, or allowing them the time to stop and sniff, or offering choice between resting places, or letting our cat decide when they want the interaction to end, or I don't know, offering up a choice of different toys or different food stuffs, and seeing which way does your pet go, you know, what do they find motivating, which toy or which food stuff in that moment in time do they want, so these small choices tell animals that they have some sort of control over their environment, and so why that's so important, and why I'd love everyone to be aware of that, is behaviorally this really matters, because when animals are feeling sort of overridden or trapped, Michael Hingson  49:59 yeah. Speaker 1  50:00 They're much more likely to rely on coping strategies that include avoidance or shutdown or even escalating behaviors like grounding and biting, and conversely, when they experience agency, their learning improves, their emotional regulation becomes easier, and their behavior becomes more stable, so agency isn't about letting our animals run the household. It means it means we as humans are deliberately designing interactions so that the animals feel safe and they have appropriate choices, and that balance supports welfare and leads to much more reliable behavior change over time. Michael Hingson  50:43 I think that all too often we are the greatest contributors to stress in our pets' environments, like dogs, and so on. And I know one of the things that is emphasized when we get new guide dogs is guiding itself is extremely stressful. The dogs have been brought up to respect the job, to like to do the job, and they're absolutely committed to doing it as well as they can. Now, to keep that attitude up is our job, and one of the things that I've learned over the years, you know, people will come up, "Well, I want to pet your dog, and my response is, "No, don't pet the dog. Now, if there's time, however, I will stop, and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog, because the harness is the indicator that the dog is working, but dogs need to relax too, and so I know Alamo, especially, just loves it when the harness comes off, and he'd love to cheat more and visit with people, even when the harness is on, but he does understand the difference, and so I do work to try to make sure that when people want to pet the dog, if I have any time at all, I will stop and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog. You need to understand why we're doing this, and that gives me the opportunity to explain it. Now, the only difference, the only time that's there's an exception to that, is if a child comes up and wants to pet the dog. I will always stop and take the harness off, because it doesn't matter. I want kids to grow up being comfortable around these dogs, and sometimes the parents will go, "Oh, that dog might bite, and all that, and I'll say, "No, the dog won't, and I'll always take the harness off for children. I may not always have the time to do it for adults, but I'll take the time for kids, because I want them to really understand that these dogs are not mean, and that they have a job to do, and so it gives me the opportunity to talk about that. Speaker 1  52:52 Yeah, that's great that you are promoting those fantastic child dog interactions, and you know what you're talking about is exactly what we've been discussing, in terms of that predictability, that consistency. You know, when the harness is off, you know that that gives the dog a clear signal. So, that's fantastic. Michael Hingson  53:13 Yeah, that's also part of it, that they know that when the harness is on, time to work, at least you're supposed to be serious anyway, no. Now, what? What's one thing that you wish dog owners would understand about cats and small animals that they tend not to pay attention to? Speaker 1  53:31 Yeah, you made me smile earlier, Michael, when you mentioned cats, because I was thinking about this. So, I guess you know, often cats and small animals are characterized as independent or aloof. Yeah, when in fact their communication styles are just maybe less obvious than the dog that's wackling the body, and you know, the tail, etc. And you know, looking really happy when the owner returns home, whereas the cat may sort of slink past, and we think, oh, okay, they're not that fast, but you know, their behavior is shaped by very different evolutionary pressures, and that's particularly around safety and conflict avoidance. So, when cats, for example, you know, act aloof or appear distant, it's much more about de-escalation, so research into feline social behavior shows that cats rely heavily on subtle signals like slow being blinking or head turns or ear position, choosing elevated resting spots to manage sort of social distance and reduce tension, and those behaviors are affiliative or calming, yet they're often missed by our ourselves or misinterpreted, and again, what seems like they're independent or aloof or distant is in reality them simply working hard to regulate proximity in ways that feel safe to them and. So you know, never feel offended if your cat moves away from you in the sofa to perch on a higher spot, because they're just managing their own comfort and control, and similarly, with rabbits or guinea pigs, they're a prey species, so their behavior is organized again differently, and they're neurologically wired to prioritize things like visibility or escape routes or control of space, so research consistently shows that when prey animals feel exposed or they're unable to run away, obviously stress responses are going to escalate quickly, and what people will therefore label as a rabbit, skittish, for example, is in fact a really logical response to feeling unsafe. Michael Hingson  55:47 Yeah, Speaker 1  55:47 so when we, when we stop looking at behavior through our human lens, which is what Jane Goodall and others have, you know, tried to help people understand, when we stop looking at it through human lens and consider what safety looks like for the animal. You know, welfare improves, owner animal relationships tend to strengthen. Michael Hingson  56:10 I don't know how Stitch figures out how to deal with a blind person, because all that link, blinking, and all that goes way over my head, of course. But even so, she's obviously figured it out, because we do have a good relationship, and she, as I've explained earlier, comes and yells at me when she wants to eat, and she'll come up and rub against me, and so on, but I think that overall she's figured out enough that, well, maybe he's a little bit different than some of the people I'm used to, so we figure it out, and we make it work, Speaker 1  56:42 absolutely. And do you know what cats are very clever in that, over the 1000s upon 1000s of years we've been around them, they've developed these unique vocalizations that really, that they don't do to other cats, but they do only to humans, which taps into our sort of caregiving responsibilities to feed them or be attentive, so yeah, brilliant example, when, when she's crying at you to have some sort of interaction or food, Michael Hingson  57:12 yeah. Tell me about your, your program. How does.. Speaker 1  57:17 oh gosh, so basically I'm drawn to sort of questions that people may have the answers to, but can't articulate, or everyday behaviors that we may take for granted. And an example of that might be, you know, why does it take so long for a dog to find the perfect spot to poo? You know, why they twirling around, and that's to do with the Earth's magnetic field. So, the how does series, I deliberately choose questions that sit at the intersection of curiosity and science. Some of the topics are more serious than others, but I do intentionally use some questions or look at some areas that are silly, for example, how does a dog fart, and why does some linger, and that might sound silly, but it's a brilliant entry point into physiology, digestion, dog behavior, and it kind of hooks people in, particularly the younger audiences, as you can imagine, and once they're engaged, then you can start to introduce real, real science without it feeling heavy, and another deciding factor, when I'm looking at subject matters, will be, you know, what's the science behind it? Is there robust research that can explain the science accurately without stripping it of nuance, and then you know, I might look at a different angle, like with my animals and history series, which is another one that I do, where it's still grounded in human animal interactions, but it's about historical moments involving animals, and what do those stories reveal about humans, and how we understood them, how we valued them or misunderstood them, and so on. So those two series, how does is the kind of science behind what animals do, and so on. And the animals in history is still approaching curiosity, but from a different angle. Michael Hingson  59:17 Is there one animal in history that really has changed how you think about animals that you maybe have talked about in your animal history series. Speaker 1  59:26 Gosh, I, at the last look, I think I've done about 67 so far of the animals in history, and there are some that really stick with me, and if I am allowed to have more than one, is that all right, Michael? Michael Hingson  59:43 Oh, sure. Speaker 1  59:44 Okay, so there's ones like Operation Acoustic Kitty, which is completely inhumane and unethical by today's standards, but back during the Cold War, they basically, the US researchers. Tried to create cat spies, and basically fitted them with microphones and listening devices within their bodies, and it was a bit barbaric, to say the least, but that experiment was scrapped. It wasn't very successful in the real world. The cats, when they were experimenting with them out on the street inevitably got run over or distracted. There's other experiments like attaching incendiary devices to bats in an attempt to help with the Second World War effort, which was unsuccessful because the bats didn't always do what the researchers hoped they would do, and then there's Project Pigeon, which is fascinating, and that's where researchers trained pigeons to guide missiles through pecking the screen, and that was scrapped because then Oppenheimer's bomb took over from that project, but you know these are some of the examples about how animals are drawn into human conflict strategy, even technical ambition. And then there's there's fascinating ones like Snowball, who was a Canadian cat, and her DNA was used to solve a crime in a murder case in 19 419 94 and basically it was the first time ever that animal forensics had been used in that way. So fundamentally it changed how we think about animals as part of our human environments, not just emotionally but evidentially, and then there's quirkier stories as well, but you know the stories that stand out include yours, Michael and Roselle. On that day, as I've said to you before, when we first met and chatted, you know that, that to me is just, I mean, it just gets me, your story, so yeah. Michael Hingson  1:02:04 So, what's next for you? Speaker 1  1:02:07 Golly, so there's always many plates spinning. Let's say I'm working on putting the Animals in History series into a book, so my plan is to produce a version of the video series into a form that would be of interest to young kids and adults who are interested in in the quirky and the curious, and then always stay curious, I guess. You know, I think curiosity matters. It's what drives my how does series. It's what interests me with the animals in history, and my articles that are right, my podcasts, etc. So, whether we're talking about humans, whether we're talking about non-human animals, it makes far more sense to pause and ask what might that individual individual be experiencing rather than rushing to explain or correct it, and I think if we're patient, if we're responsive, if we allow animals the time and humans that they need to cope in a world that's often crazy, and for animals largely designed by us, I think will be much better advocates for our animals and each other. So, I always think, stay curious. So, that's what I will stay as my mantra going forward. Michael Hingson  1:03:34 And it doesn't get better than that. And I hope that you stay curious. And I think curiosity is such a wonderful thing that that we should do a whole lot more than we do. Well, I want to thank you for being here with us. This has been fun. Can you believe we've been doing this over an hour? Oh gosh, I can all hold Speaker 1  1:03:53 on forever. So, oh, I'm not Michael Hingson  1:03:55 complaining, I'm not complaining. We'll have to do this again. Speaker 1  1:03:58 Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Well, Michael Hingson  1:04:00 this has been fun, and I want to thank all of you for watching and listening. Love to hear from you and hear what you think, but Hannah, for you, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Speaker 2  1:04:09 It's just my name, Hanne grice.com is my H A Michael Hingson  1:04:14 N N E, not A, Speaker 1  1:04:16 yeah, Danish way, so H A double N E, G G R I C e.com So I'm on the website. You can just Google my name, follow me on socials. If you have any questions, you have any ideas for the how does, or want me to explore a story for the animals in history, always open to suggestions as well as feedback. Michael Hingson  1:04:36 Cool. Well, and I hope all of you will give us some feedback. I'd love to hear from you, feel free to email me at Michael H I M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Please give us a five star rating wherever you're observing our podcast, but more important than a rating, give us a great review. We love reviews, and people who are interested in listening to the podcast. Just really appreciate people who have already heard the podcast reviewing it, so please give us a review, and whatever you do, if you know anyone who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, including you, Hannah, we'd love introductions to anyone that you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, and with that, again, I want to thank you, Hannah, for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Speaker 1  1:05:24 Thank you again, and take care, everyone listening. Michael Hingson  1:05:30 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Thank.

A life filled with curiosity can take you further than you ever imagined. I sit down with German journalist, author, entrepreneur and media expert Helmut Stapel to explore how childhood curiosity, world travel, creativity and a willingness to take risks shaped an unstoppable life. From growing up in a village of just 700 people to building an international media company, writing books, producing films and launching a global leadership initiative called The Center, Helmut shares why open-mindedness, passion and persistence matter more than fear. You will hear why he believes every idea deserves a chance, how meaningful relationships create opportunity, and why making the world better begins with each of us. I believe you will enjoy Helmut's thoughtful outlook and practical lessons on creating a life with purpose. Highlights: ·  03:05 - Early childhood curiosity becomes the foundation for a lifetime of creativity. ·  09:18 - Choosing passion over convention leads to a career that never feels like work. ·  17:33 - Building a business with almost nothing proves resourcefulness beats fear. ·  25:13 - The vision for The Center offers a new way to bring leaders together. ·  43:15 - A humorous book about the pandemic delivers a powerful lesson on questioning information. ·  54:31 - Every great achievement begins by protecting an idea instead of doubting it. About the Guest: After completing my training as a media designer, I finished my editorial traineeship at the Nordsee-Zeitung in Bremerhaven/Germany in 1997 and founded successful my media agency, “Stop press & public”, based in Bremerhaven. Through various trainings across all media sectors, I had the opportunity to build up my client base both nationally and internationally. These include contributions for the BBC as well as film work alongside the well-known producer Stratton Leopold (Mission Impossible, Captain America). My journalistic repertoire ranges from short news reports and podcasts to features in words and images. For over ten years, I have been sharing my expertise on the successful construction of narratives, stories and storylines in seminars at colleges and universities worldwide like the University of Cancún in Mexico and German Universities. The range of course content spans storytelling, digital marketing and social media strategies, journalism, photography and PR, as well as scriptwriting for novels and films. All seminars are held in English and German. As author I write fiction, travel, culture, fitness and business book. My works include the novel ‘The Day a Chinese Man Ate a Bat', lighthouse stories, the fitness guide ‘Couch Coach' and the international port book ‘Port City'. In 2024 I started my career as artist with my first internationally recognised concept series WorLds, which was curated for the exhibitions at ArtExpo Paris 2025 and the 24 International Art Fair Venice in 2026. The renowned Magazine FineArtNews published a multi-page feature about my new artistic approach in concept art. In autumn 2026 I will open my first solo exhibition in London with the aim, to let people benefit from the proceeds of my art. As part of the European Group “Speakers Excellence” I give keynote speeches at official events and charity events. With the project THE CENTER I have started together with my wife Daja a worldwide initiative, which will create a new basis of respect and a generation of leaders, with a new understanding of global interconnections in the spirit of a united humanity which takes responsibility for working together rather than against each other. The first events will be held in 2027 in Tuscany/Italy and Switzerland. Ways to connect with Helmut**:** Social Media: http://linkedin.com/in/helmut-stapel-5b3a60b6 https://stoppress.contently.com/ www.facebook.com/helmut.stapel #5000 www.instagram.com/stoppress Homepage: www.stoppress.de Article FineArtsNews: From Journalism to the Canvas of Conceptual Art - FineArtsNews About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello everyone, wherever you happen to be in the world today, I want you to feel welcome at Unstoppable Mindset, that's our podcast name, and I'm your host, Michael Hingson, or if you want, you can call me Mike Hingson. Our guest today is Helmut Steppel, who is a media person, he's an author, he's an artist, he's a lot of different things, he's an entrepreneur, he started his own company. My gosh, I'm jealous, he's done a lot of different things, and I think we're going to have a great conversation over the next hour or so. So, Helmut, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Helmut Stapel  01:39 Thank you so much. Thank you so much, dear Mike, and thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here, because as your invitation popped up suddenly, I was a bit surprised about, I think oneself never looks at its own way of living or where we are in the way other people maybe do, and so thank you for having me and your podcast. Michael Hingson  02:02 Well, thank you. I think we'll, we'll have a lot of fun. We have a lot of things to talk about. I appreciate all the information that you sent me, and, and we'll, we got to keep it interesting because it's late where you are. It's after 9o'clock now in the evening over there, so we gotta, gotta make sure it, it stays interesting, so that you don't fall asleep. Helmut Stapel  02:24 Definitely, I try, I try to, I try to. Sorry, in another part of Germany, it's cold outside, it's not dark already, but it's getting to be dark, so it's bad time to say so. But I'm happy to be with you. Michael Hingson  02:39 How cold Helmut Stapel  02:41 is it 14 degrees, something like that. Should, should be more. Everybody's talking about El Nino, and looking at the guy in Mexico, showing pictures of red things. And we have some prognosis regarding summertime coming, some big heat from whatever it is at the moment. I must say it's quite normal and a bit too cold for this year of the time. Michael Hingson  03:05 Well, we'll see what happens. Well, why don't we start? I love to start this way. I ask people to start by telling me a little bit about, in your case, the early helmet growing up, and so on. Let's start with that. Helmut Stapel  03:18 Okay, we can do that question from my side, when does early helmet start, at which age? Because for me, for most fascinating is that for some reason I can remember, at least I can go back to, I think, as when I was one year old. Michael Hingson  03:35 Well, I'll let you start wherever you'd like to start, that certainly is early enough, but you, you tell us what it was like growing up, and all that, and if you remember back to one year old, that's great. Helmut Stapel  03:46 Okay, I grew up in a very, very beautiful landscape, a small village, 700 people living there, called Stuben in Germany, and what I remember is laying as a small child, not be able to walk, and just in a wagon, and staying at the blue sky, the clouds, tree leaves, sometimes people coming big faces. It was my aunt Helga would have figured out later on, and so I remember sounds of bees and hums and roses, the smell of roses. My mother loved roses about all around the houses, and as you see, in this way I grew up in a way where I got used to use all my senses, and I think that was some of the basis for all what followed up, because I started then to have a closer look at my environmental. When I was seven or eight years old in school, I wrote my first text. Later on, I became a journalist, but in this very moment, then I realized, and that, and also the grown-ups, that is maybe some kind of talent because. My first text got a one with a plus, so I think it was eight years old, and so I grew up in a very, very good surrounding. My father was a captain. He took me with his ship to Portugal, to Norway, to Russia in the summer time when we were out of school, so in this way somehow I got in touch with the world very early, very early. I was seven when I went the first time to Portugal, and so I think this was the basis for all what came afterwards till today. You know, I'm 60. Michael Hingson  05:35 What did you think of traveling, and how has that kind of shaped the way you look at life today, Helmut Stapel  05:44 and a lot of ways, and in a positive way, because to say so, I was not aware of how many prejudices I had in my head regarding society, media, whatever it is, since I met the people for real in the countries they were living in, and this is from the USA to Arabian countries to Asia, whatever it is, and suddenly all these influences came to my head regarding the fact, and also then the knowledge that we are all different, we all look different, and we come from different cultures, but at the end, we have all the same needs, and so there's no country where I have ever been to where I felt unsure. There is no country where I didn't met friends, for example, and it was always about being open-minded, and then meeting people who have been open-minded in the same way as I was, and so that's how everything developed. Michael Hingson  06:52 Do you have any countries that you haven't been to that you'd like to go to? Helmut Stapel  06:57 Yes, to turn upside down, where I have been to is from Alaska to Cape Horn, to go to then the Caribbean, the Atlantic, European countries, from Norway to South Africa, then to the Maldives, and go on to the beginning of India to say so. Australia is on my map. I was asked to go there, but then when the war with Ireland and USA popped up, that was so dangerous to go by Dubai by plane to go to Australia. So I will do this next spring, and somehow China is a bit too big for me, I would say, means that I would love to go inside the country to meet people that takes a lot of time, and travel journalism is a lot of people think travel journalism is something where you just stay for six months in the country, or whatever it is, it's different because of money and time, because it's all organized, and that means a big country like China would be great regarding culture, but it's would be a long part in before to have a closer look at where the stories and the people are, so I would be Australia and Japan, I think, and to say so the fastest thing I've ever had to do with Cape Horn, surrounding by zodiac with a dingy seriously, and I made 30,000 kilometers in six days coming from Germany, and I was on three continents and in six or seven different countries, and so this is travel journalism to say, so, Michael Hingson  08:43 wow. Well, I went to New Zealand in 2003 but I never got to Australia. But earlier this year, kind of, my, my wish was granted, and I'll be traveling to Australia later this year. Wow, to speak. It's the first time that I will have been to Australia. I've been to Japan, and I've been to South Korea. I've not been to China either. I think it would be fascinating to go if someday that will happen. I've not been to Germany, I've been to Spain. I'd love to come. Well, all I need are some speaking engagements to get me over there, so you know, if you know anybody who needs a speaker, we're always looking for opportunities to come and speak, but I Helmut Stapel  09:28 can have a closer look for that. Definitely, Michael Hingson  09:30 that would be fun. But anyway, I enjoy traveling. I appreciate that in reality we're all really the same. We may be raised in different cultures, and we think we're a lot more different than I think we really are, and in so many ways, but you, so you went, and you grew up, you went to school, then you went to university, right? Helmut Stapel  09:54 Yes, but in a way that I realized that in that I. Way, and at that time I was about worth 30 years old, because I did my A level at the evening school, while I was working at the same time, and then I figured out that I'm more the practical type of human being, I was not able to sit and to listen to someone and to analyze texts of other people, for I figured out that my brain was, as I was telling you, when I grew up and saw all these things with the sky and the clouds and whatever it was that my brain was meant to produce things by itself, and that it was full of ideas and pictures, and it all had to come out, and so in that way I stopped studying and made a, I was a volunteer, I made an apprenticeship at a newspaper, and became an editor, and so in that way I found my job 30 years ago, which I self employed now for 30 years due, and it's I'm blessed to do that, because since that time I don't work, I have spare time all the time. It's just doing something which I love. Michael Hingson  11:07 Well, and that's kind of important to do, and that that makes it so much more fun when you can do something that you love doing. It doesn't seem like a job anymore. It doesn't seem nearly so difficult to do, because you enjoy it, Helmut Stapel  11:22 definitely, definitely. Also, regarding writing novels, which I started then a few years ago, because sometimes my wife has to hold me back for sitting and writing, because I always love to do that. I do other things as well, but it's something which is really in my mind and my heart. Michael Hingson  11:47 Well, and you mentioned earlier that you and Daddy are getting into a new house. I hope she likes the house. Helmut Stapel  11:54 Definitely, it's our.. it's our.. thank you for asking. It's our dream house, because it's not too big. It's 160 square meters with a cellar and the roof and things like that, and there's enough space, and we have a fireplace, we have a garden, we will have a dog, and so it's like, like a dream came true, because it's a place which is silent, and for me the best thing is that we will have a fireplace in the working room as well, so I love to stay there in winter time, and then suggest to do my work, and she loves that, really, because she also says this is the house she was always looking for, and so we will then have our own home, and this is a dream. Also, Michael Hingson  12:36 do you have any children? Helmut Stapel  12:39 No, personally not. I grew up some children with the women I cared for for 12 or 15 years, but as it is sometimes when the when the young birds have grown up, the mother birds and the grown-up birds are leaving the nest without asking the father bird if he wants to fly with them, and so they flew away, and I stayed a bit concerned, but then I meet Daya, and so I knew where that comes from and what was the sense behind that, because since that time I'm absolutely happy, and I've never been that happy before in my life. Michael Hingson  13:20 Good for you and Daya, that'll, that's great. Well, it's exciting. I have lived in a number of homes. My wife and I got married in 1982 and then she passed away in 2022 And so we, we lived in various places, and we always figured out how to make it work. We had challenges because she was in a wheelchair her whole life, but we, we love to build houses when we could. There were, there were a couple times that we couldn't, but we love to build houses because that way we build accessibility into it, and it doesn't cost to do that. So, Helmut Stapel  13:54 yes, Michael Hingson  13:55 so we, we had a lot of fun with, with that. So, I, I, I can't complain a whole lot. It's worked out pretty well, but I'm glad you guys are getting into a house that'll be pretty exciting. That'll keep you busy, and while you're moving from one house to another, you'll probably find all sorts of treasures that you forgot you even had. Helmut Stapel  14:15 Can can be also some things in some cartoons or in wardrobes or whatever it is, all things I have books of my father as well, instance he was a captain, as I said, and some things are maybe hidden somewhere. Really keen on doing that, for example, as I have a past as a musician as well. When I was 23 I had a record contract with Sony Records, and somehow, regarding private things, this did not come out on the way I wanted it to be. It was for three or four years, but all this musician past is also in some draws line with things or songs. I, I started to compose and. Maybe I start this in our new home next to the fireplace again. There Michael Hingson  15:04 you go. Well, that'll be kind of fun, Helmut Stapel  15:07 definitely. Michael Hingson  15:08 So, when did you found, when did you start your own company? Helmut Stapel  15:12 Ah, that was almost 30 years ago, was in 1997 right? Directly after my apprenticeship as an editor, because I figured out that it's somehow my spirit to be more on my own track. This is also maybe founded because of my father being a captain, because when I was a young boy standing on the bridge, and he asked me if I like to be the captain of the ship, I was seven years old, and I was then asked to guide and to lead this big freight ship to the Biscaya near to Portugal in a stormy day, and I was this feeling of I can go everywhere, I could go everywhere, and so from this moment on, I had the feeling that the chances I create for myself are endless when I give them the chance to appear, and so this is why I decided to become self-employed. Michael Hingson  16:11 Wow, so that, well, it's kind of fun. So, do you, you've decided, though, you don't want to be a captain anymore? Helmut Stapel  16:18 Yes, I've became, I've become a sailor. I had a sailing boat, but I was not about to make this my profession to say so. Right, I'm a seaman as well. I do a lot of cruises, I write about cruises, I work for several magazines. I've just come back from the middle ocean with a nice trip, Explorer One from MSC, it's the Italian shipping company. I visited Sting, the international position, on his vineyard in Tuscany, which was quite an honor. And so there is a lot of connection to being a seafarer. I like cruising, and Michael Hingson  17:00 I've had had fun doing it, and would like to do more of it, even though it's just me now, but I, and I will, I think cruising for me is a great way to take a vacation, because I only have to unpack once, but, but more important than that, you know, unlike being in a timeshare where you, you go and visit places and drive, you know, I'm not going to drive or anything like that. So, I, I like cruising. I think that'll be kind of fun, and I'm looking forward to doing that in the next few years again. But, in the meanwhile, in the meanwhile, as I speak, I get to travel around and meet lots of different people, and that's kind of fun too. Helmut Stapel  17:40 Definitely, I think you're the same as I am regarding that the exchange with people is something which makes oneself feeling alive, because there are so many impulses and things one maybe has never been thinking about, and suddenly some ideas pop up out of this conversation, which is, which is quite great. Michael Hingson  18:06 Well, so tell me about your company that you started 30 years ago. It's been a been going a long time. Tell me about that. Helmut Stapel  18:14 My pleasure, because at it's also about thinking positive about life and not building your own barriers, because at that time I was, I was not a rich man, I'm not today as well, but I had so less money that I was not able to, at that time they were the starting time of computer, I was not able to have an old fax, so I had to ask some friends in the company if I could just creep in the, in the midday break into the office of their chef to send a fax to a company in Munich I wanted to work for, and so it was a bit adventurous, I really had not a lot of money. I found him affirming it in a two room apartment, and the financial department wanted not to give me the tax back, because I said it's not, it's not possible to live in a two room apartment, and in the same way found a firm, and I said, yeah, but I did it, I did it, and so in this way I worked on then working for radio because it did an apprenticeship as well then why I founded my firm and in this way it grew and grew and I did during the time all the work and apprenticeship and all kind of media you can imagine so I can work today for print for radio, I'm doing reportages for online, for TV, and in this way I ended up at the university at the end. Now, after 30 years, again, I think after 20, because since 10 years I work as a teacher as a lecturer at different university on German and English internationally as well. From South America to Japan, because online is a fascinating world where even there are no borderlines, and so I'm really happy that I was able to fulfill this dream, starting as I said, without fear. I always said I just try and never fail, I do it some other way. That's the point. Michael Hingson  20:24 You figure out a way to make it work, Helmut Stapel  20:27 absolutely, with the help of people. For example, that's always important that you meet people which feel some sympathy for you. That's right, just to help you, or they have some contacts. Most important is I think that the passion you feel for your work is readable, is hearable, whatever your media you work for, that people enjoy to follow you. And then the people who just are your employers say, 'Wow, we want to have more of that. So I think this is the point. How it works. So, what's the name of your company? It's Stop Press and Public, and it has a has a history behind that, because the part of Germany where I come from, as you see, my last name is Staple, S T A P E L, and we speak here flat German, which name means that staple is called Stoppel with an O instead of an A, right? And so I took the short form of Stoopel with an S T O P. It's like a stop sign you have in traffic, and so I said, okay, if I have stop, this is cool internationally seen for a marketing point, and I needed some things because I always, in the beginning, also as well thought, and I was sure that I wanted to work internationally, and so I thought that I need something which is short, which is international, and so I said I do it press, and there's something I do which is public, and then it will stop press and public, which is quite great, because I had no idea when I went the first time to the USA. I gave someone my business card. He said, "Whoa, this is the cool agency name, and say, "Why? And he said, "Yeah, regarding that, stop press as a synonym for latest news, stop the printing, stop the Michael Hingson  22:21 presses. Yeah. Helmut Stapel  22:22 Yes, I wasn't aware of that. And so there's really funny, yeah. And this is how that, how that figures out. Michael Hingson  22:30 And what do.. and what does the company do? Helmut Stapel  22:34 I do everything from all topics apart from ice hockey and soccer, because I, to say so, I could write or do some reports about that, but I have, you know, passion for this kind of sports, so I do everything apart from soccer and ice hockey, but also then I'm a photographer as well, so I do reportages all around the world regarding traveling as scientific journalists, as well. I do write for scientific magazines, which gives me a deep insight into topics I had never any idea before, which keeps my brain moving on and moving on, and also connecting different topics, which are maybe normally are not connected, and I do cultural reports as well. I do videos. I work for social media, and I develop social media and marketing companies as well, for big companies all around the wall, for example, the Q, not line England. I did some marketing, and there are others. So, everything which is connected with communication in what way ever is what I do. Michael Hingson  23:54 So, it's a marketing and communications company, which, which keeps you busy. How is it just you, or do you have other people in the company? Helmut Stapel  24:03 No, it's just me, and this is fascinating as well, because after I think 10 years, when I founded the firm, I was at a point from the mass of work, which came from all sides to me, to decide if I stay on my own or if I grew my firm, my company with some clerks regarding Dan becoming bigger, and when I was thinking about that, I had a closer look at my dog, which was a shepherd dog, a German Shepherd dog, and we were close friends, and he was my partner in triathlon, I did 10 years triathlon, and he was my running and my swimming partner as well, and so I looked at him, and at that time, at the day we wanted to go into the forest as we always did, and suddenly I was aware that if I have all this responsibility regarding all the people and getting all the work that they get their money at the. End of the month, and can feed their families, and things like that, that will be such a pressure for me and my small family as well. That I said, now, okay, I don't do that, because I will just lose my freedom, and so I decided to keep it small, and the way that I can normally live, and I'm not a poor man, but I'm not a rich man as well. But I have all the time of the world to organize myself. I can go to for a forest walk whenever I want. I can sleep midday on my couch whenever I want, and that was the point why I'm just on my own. Michael Hingson  25:38 And you can do podcast interviews whenever you want, and podcast conversations whenever you want. Helmut Stapel  25:43 Yes, definitely, Michael Hingson  25:44 that works out pretty well. Well, that's great. So, so what you have a project I think you're working on called The Center. Tell me about that. Helmut Stapel  25:54 Yes, thanks for asking, because this is something which is really on my mind and my heart, because dear Mike, as you asked before, regarding traveling the world, making experiences, meeting people over the years, it came to me and to my mind there are so many things where the world is not going in a direction where it should go just to be a good place for all the people that live on this planet, including all the nature which is on this planet, because without nature we cannot live on this planet, and so I developed the idea, and I'm working on this project, and I think in 2027 we will have the first, the first events is to found a place, which is called the center, because all the structures we were used to for decades, politically, naturally seen society, whatever it is, they are all breaking down, there are no, no, no roots anymore, and people are anxious that everything falls apart, and there's no center anymore, and so the idea was just to create a center where leading people from all kinds of areas, like it's economy, it's philosophy, it's a technical scene, it's astronomy, it's a religious whatever it is, just to take all this knowledge and all these different opinions and to make events for people which are in leading positions to create a feeling of that we are all in a network, because the earth is round, we cannot flee from here. We have to stay here, and we have to work with that. And the point is, when we all take something from the cookie plate and never give back anything on the plate, it will be empty, and if it's empty, no one is a winner, no one is a winner, and so the center is about then giving people the idea when they try to live a life where they give something, and it means not that they should give all their money, which they make to other people, it's about friendliness, it's about health, it's about clean water. It's about giving a warm word, and it's also giving more money as well. If someone's doing a good job, and so making the places where they live a better place, and the way they could do, and in this way giving more space for this message, because people have been treated better, they treat other people better, and it's like you throw a stone in the water, and small waves are coming, and just go. And this is the point. What the center is going to be about. If Speaker 1  28:54 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset, and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the unstoppable mindset community. Michael Hingson  29:28 Well, and when you throw a pebble into the water, the waves go out to the end, and then they come back, and, and it's a process. It's a process. You're Helmut Stapel  29:37 right, definitely. Michael Hingson  29:38 So, how far along are you with with this? You said in 2027 you think you're going to have the first event, and what, what, what kind of preparations are you making, and how is that going Helmut Stapel  29:50 from the first steps, writing an expose, getting my, and Daya is with me as well, because we like to found this together, just. Putting the first thoughts on paper, writing an expose, getting clear about what should it be about, having the first contacts, meeting people was like creating some kind of magnetic field, because suddenly when we started with that, things came by itself to us, that was fascinating regarding people offering sponsoring the website, for example, I have been to Zurich to an event where I met people I was not aware about, which fit to, for example, than the event character to other people, which one is the former director, the technical director of the NASA, the space agency, there's some kind of neurologist, we would say something, some people who work on brain artificial intelligence, whatever it is, and so I meet a lot of people since then who future researchers, whatever, who will be able, and would love to have events and a speech at the events of the center to be part of creating a horizon for all the people who come there to make sure and clear that in which position we are in the moment we look at earth in the space, because not many people are aware of that, how, how fragile this is, and so with all the knowledge and all the things like philosophy, which, as I said, we will try to implement a feeling of we have an at the people I have to do something, and in this way we are on the way. We have two places where we love to make the events. We came across that in the beginning we would think to concentrate on one place, but then we figured out it's better to have different places, just to have more atmosphere. One is in Switzerland, and the other is in Italy. And we are about to create, then, the program to make sure, as people have to pay for that. This is quite a point. We cannot do it for free, because there are some costs, but to create the program and sending invitations, making advertisements on Instagram, social media, whatever it is, and have a closer look on LinkedIn, how the feedback is, and the point is that without, as I work all my life like that, even if I write a novel or whatever it is, without setting a deadline for something, you will never reach your aim, because you say, yeah, maybe sometime someday. No, we do it in 2027 in summer, and in this way we have some time to move into a new home and our house, and in the same moment, just working with the people who already have said that they want to have a speech there, for example, we also are in touch with Laura Chaplin, which is a niece, you say, so from Charlie Chaplin. She lives in Switzerland. She, she loves to come there too, because she, she's a person who thinks that humor is an important point in life to create some kind of life feeling, and so in that way we are on the way to have then the first event in June or July 2027 and it will be in Switzerland at the Lake of Your Walsh Stetter Zie, near to Lucerne, or in Tuscany near to Lawrence Fierense, Michael Hingson  33:48 that sounds exciting. How large do you think the event will be? Helmut Stapel  33:52 We think about two events in the beginning in a year with maximum of 15 participants, maybe 10, because it will be very intensive, and it's not something to say so, which can be in Germany. We say inflation, inflation, or maybe this is the word in English. It's something that has to grow, as to say so. I have a friend. When I talked to him about that, he said that's too big. You will never, never see and realize how this will work. And I said, no, this is not the idea behind it, because someone has to start the process. All the things which can be big in history of humanity started at one point, and over if it takes centuries, I don't care. Someone has to start it, and if the idea works, it will work inside the people, which carry the idea to other people. And so we start with, I think, two events in a year, and maybe then 10 up to 15 people, max. Simon, Michael Hingson  35:01 well, so 10 to 15 people will be speaking. Is there an audience in addition to that, or it's just going to be an event with those people, and they're going to then take the message elsewhere? Helmut Stapel  35:13 No, the audience will be 10 to 15 people. Got it? Because the idea behind this, that also, because they were thinking about that every every change in society, if you look at human history, started on an unhealthy basis, which means that we're all people who were hungry, they were poor, whatever it is, and they were just fed up with the lives they were living, and said we have to change something, and this always meant war, this meant revolution, whatever it is, and at the end, most of the time, exactly those people became like the people they were talking about before, that they are the vicious people, so we thought about if we want to change something, the best thing is to talk to the people who are able, in their actual, in their current positions, to change something, which is their advantage as well. This is the concept of the center. It doesn't mean that you change when you change your mindset in this way that you lose something. No, it's about the advantage for everyone, and this is the idea behind the center. Michael Hingson  36:23 How did this come to your, to your mind? How do you, how did you create it? What, what caused you to think about doing this? Helmut Stapel  36:32 I have not really an exact idea. It was, it was a, it was a fusion of all the things I was talking about. There was one moment where suddenly all the things I mentioned in the beginning, regarding there's no center, everything is falling apart. I witnessed that, as everyone does on the TV and the radio, on social media, and when this witness, I talk to people, to friends, and also in other countries, and I figured out that this kind of anxiety creeps into the minds and souls of so many people that they got stuck in their lives, and that somehow all this beauty, which is around us, is not seen anymore, and it's just something that it's like the world is going to be getting dark, whatever it is, and we can stop that. And that was the point when that this, when I said someone has to stop that. And then I said, okay, then I'm the one, together with Daya. Michael Hingson  37:39 Well, that'll keep you and I are busy, you know, gives you, gives you something to do, and, and, and I'm sure you'll, you'll create an environment where there'll be a lot of good ideas that will come out of it, which is, of course, what it's all about, right? Helmut Stapel  37:53 Yes, yeah, definitely, because the way we treat each other is the basis for all that, regarding that we both have have an eye on each other, a closer look, that the other one feels good, just asking, do you need something, can I do something, and things like that, and that way we created a process which brings us with the positive energy forward in a very, very exciting and powerful way. Michael Hingson  38:23 Well, and that's, you know, that's always exciting, and it'll be interesting to see where, where this goes, and how the center grows, and how you can use that to influence people. We need to have more of that, I think the whole idea of helping to create and change, well, to change the world and make it a better place, there's always a good thing to do. Helmut Stapel  38:49 Yeah, I think you're definitely right, Mike. Also, then based on the idea that when we start with that in this on the small scale, it doesn't mean that not other people can do the same in other countries, you know. I registered the trademark just to, and the logo, and the and the and the sign, because it makes sense to have something which is steady, and if other people, then, for example, think that they are convinced by this idea, there's, there's nothing which is against the idea, then, that they do is in the country with the same concept as well. So, this is what we hope, that it's for example, I think there's always fascinating friend of mine, he, he's a scientist in mushrooms, and he's so keen on mushrooms, and he's telling about mushroom stories all day long, but the point is, this is the most fascinating living being, because it's under the ground, and it's just no one is seeing how it moves, and it's getting bigger and bigger, and what we eat is just what pops. Up right, and but but it's invisible, and when it comes out, everybody says I had no idea that it's that big, and I think this is the idea about sorry, the center creating a network which grows by itself and has more and more points where the idea pops up, that's the point, Michael Hingson  40:18 yeah, which, which makes sense. Tell me about some of the books that you've written, if you would. Helmut Stapel  40:25 I love to love to, because as I said, when I was eight, I wrote my first essay, which somehow astonished the teacher, and then I wrote my first poems, and short stories was 1312 or 13 years, and then I was aware of the fact that I want to become a writer. What happened was I became a writer in the way that I became a journalist, which took a lot of time, because I'm self-employed, but in the same way I was always keen on writing books, and I wrote several books, I think. Meanwhile, it's seven or eight. The first novel and short story thing, the first novel was 2024 and the short story mixed with with pictures. I'm doing pictures as well. I'm a painter as well, and so this was then 20 years ago, and so this is just the process of developing things. There's a poem book as well, it's called Lemon Land, which is quite interesting with funny poems, and as I'm interested in so many things, there are people asked me to write tourism things about lighthouses, for example. There were people, they asked me to write economic books about how a harbor works. For example, in Germany, we have one of the biggest, or some of the biggest container harbors of the world, the city where I live, Bremerhaven, for example, which is very connected to the USA. We had, I think, 6 million containers a year, and now we are somehow about 3.8 3.6 or whatever it is, and so this is some logistical thing, I wrote a fitness book as well, since I did triathlon 10 years and it was a vegetarian at that time, and so I figured out how that works, and suddenly I started to eat meat again, because then from one day to another it tastes good again for me, and so I wrote a fitness book, as well. It's called The Couch Coach, because I figured out that so many people sitting in front of the TV saying, "Ah, I would like to go to a studio, but it costs so much energy, and I would love to stay in front of my TV. And so I thought to develop a fitness program for people just laying on the couch and making sports, so it works with some, it's not a lot of weight, it's for your food and for your hands, and so within 15 or 20 minutes, you can just exercise your body from the food while you, while you eat pizza and eat Coca Cola. So I also have some diet program in the book, but you're not forced to do this, is this is not this. If you want to become a better man, just have a diet and do sport. No, a lot of people just stop them doing that, because it's exhausting. And so you can decide to change your life, but you can keep on lying on the couch, just having pizza and drinking Coke. It's just about bringing people into the mood of movement, and so I think this is the mixture. Actually, I wrote a travel guide, which maybe can now will come out this year, and it's the first travel guide one has written in this style on this planet. Honestly, there's no book like that. I'm very proud on this, and while I'm looking for someone that publishes it, I already work on my next novel with Willy, a criminal story, which plays on a lighthouse. Daya is very excited hearing the next things I have written, and so these are the writing projects I do work on. Michael Hingson  44:16 So, what's the name of the travel book? Helmut Stapel  44:19 I cannot say this is a secret, it's Michael Hingson  44:23 not out yet. So, yeah, you can't say what's the last book. Oh, go ahead. Helmut Stapel  44:28 The last book is also quite exciting, because it will be published next week on English, and will be available worldwide. It's called The Day a Chinese Ate a Bet, and so, as you can imagine, it's about Corona, and it's the very first book on a journalism basis written in a comedian style, apart from the fact that Corona was not really funny, that that takes all the things which has happened based. Based on a two year research on press releases from US government, the World Health Health Organization, whatever it is, articles, just to make an overview, what happened at what time, and who did say what, because of blaming whom, to bring some light into this chaos in a very funny way, regarding that, the theory and the rumor that Chinese eat beds are just based on one video from an influencer from Thailand who pretended to eat a bed, and so that was an ah, all Chinese eat bats, they produce corona, and so this is why it's called like the day Chinese ate a bad and the main point is the message in this book is not to believe everything people are telling you because they want to influence you and not to ask the question where's the source where's the basis for that and so yeah and it's in one day in Wuhan, a taxi driver who has all the people, there's a billionaire called Phil Bates, you can assume who I mean, and other people who are driving in this taxi one after another, and all this taxi driver gets all the stories and infos, and so he gets more confused and confused and nervous, and so it's a day in Wuhan where it pops up all the people who are connected, maybe with the with the existing of the coronavirus, and they all meet at the end in a final place to say so. And then we have the conclusion, but I won't, I won't spoil that. Oh, you don't want to do Michael Hingson  46:42 that? No, by no means. So, it'll be published in English next week, huh? Helmut Stapel  46:47 Yes, exciting! Wow, Michael Hingson  46:48 that's pretty cool. Helmut Stapel  46:51 I'm really proud on that. Michael Hingson  46:54 Well, so what publisher is publishing it, or how's that working? Helmut Stapel  47:00 I did this by myself. Okay, Helmut Stapel  47:03 yeah, with this book, for example, and have chosen the soil name Arthur Block because it was my grandpa, and I thought Arthur Block is more international than Helmut Staple. It's more, there's more speed behind it. Arthur Block, yay. And as I did my first apprenticeship as graphic designer, I decided, because I'm familiar with books and publishing with the newspaper, I have all the knowledge to publish my book by myself, and I try to, and it's working out good, because I have a lot of five star five five-star ratings on Amazon, and there are some kind of.. we have in Germany, for example, companies like Books on Demand, which then bring this with an ISBN number into all bookshops in the world, and so it was a kind of adventure. I still work on that. Regarding also, thank you for naming this in your podcast, doing some marketing on Google, and things like that. Normal, just have a closer look, how that that works. And so, with the with the travel guide, I'm in touch with Lonely Planet, which is quite known as travel guide, which young people love all around the world, and they are interested, and so looking forward if they really want to. If not, and if no one likes to, I publish it by myself again Michael Hingson  48:35 now. So, will the day the Chinese ate a bat, when that comes out in English form, will that also be available in places like Amazon? Helmut Stapel  48:45 Definitely, I figured out, and this is the exciting part of, at first I had no idea how that works with Amazon and Kindle, and whatever it is, and then I figured out, by it was incidentally, when I created this book at first in German, then I published it on Amazon, and they have an ISBN number as well. And I thought, okay, now I'm in business internationally, and a friend of mine said, okay, I like to buy your book, I go to a bookshop, and he had the title and asked for the book, and they looked into the PC and said there is no book like that, and there is no author like that, and he called me, and I said this is not possible, because I have the ISBN number here from Amazon, and then I figured out that Amazon has an own ISBN number, which doesn't pop up in the international catalogs of bookshops, you need a different ISBN number from the first three numbers, Michael Hingson  49:41 yeah. Helmut Stapel  49:42 Yes, and so I always have to use two channels, it's Amazon with Kindle and things like that, and also the normal book shops who like books on demand, as I said, with the international normal ISBN number. Michael Hingson  49:55 Will there be a an audio version of the book? Helmut Stapel  49:58 Yes, I work. That since I'm a radio moderator as well, and we have a studio at home, and we will have a really pretty studio, and on your house, I love it. I will produce the books as audio versions as well. Michael Hingson  50:13 Well, that'll be exciting. You'll have to let us know when, when the audio version, especially, comes, comes out. That'll be, Helmut Stapel  50:20 I will, Michael Hingson  50:20 that'll be easier for me to read. I mean, I can buy a print book, and I can use optical character recognition to read it, but I'm lazy. I'd rather have an audio version, and I know other people would too. So, that'll be, that'll be exciting when it, when it does come out. Helmut Stapel  50:34 I'll let you know, it's more personally somehow, if you just see the voice of than the author just reading something. Michael Hingson  50:40 Yeah, well, whether it's you reading it or someone, it'll still be good to have an audio version. Now, you have also made a movie. Tell me about the movie. Helmut Stapel  50:49 Yes, I work on that. It's not in the cinema, it's the process I'm still working on, and I'm really proud on that too. Yeah, because it's also, yeah. yeah, realizing what chance you can take to do whatever it is, and as I said, the borderlines you have are the borderlines you put by yourself, and when I figured out that I was going to go to Savannah, USA, and had the chance to have an interview with Stratton Leopold, who is the very, very well-known producer in the USA. He made movies like Mission Impossible, Star Trek. He was involved in Captain America, and things like that. I thought, when I have so many ideas in my head, I just can write two pages down and just ask him if he thinks it's a good story, and so when we had this interview, we're sitting on our own in an old cinema in Savannah, next to the ice shop he's running, he has taken that from his father, Leopold's ice cream, it's really cool because you have all the things from his movies into the ice shop, all the things from Mission Impossible, and this is really cool. And so I was asking him if you could maybe have a closer look at this two page, no, I think it was four pages, and what he thinks about the story, and he said, yeah, for sure, and was quite great a moment in my life, because in the interview he before mentioned how many people give him short things, manuscripts or text, and hope that he's doing something with that, and there, and he said there's so many things he's sorry to say that, but they are not good, and then he was reading my text, and at the end he was looking at me and was like one second, two seconds, three seconds, and then he said this is a good story, and I say, thank you. And then he asked me if he could take it home with him, just have a closer look. He asked me if I had already saved it. I said, no, I didn't. He said, just do. For example, now I'm a member of the American Writers Guild East, so that my text and my scripts are protected and I shifted all my dates behind with the travel journalism because he asked me if I can come back next day and we had a closer tour in Savannah to look for locations where we can just have this movie we were looking for people with money then for script writers and things like that but unfortunately in between, then Corona popped up, and it was then this 2021 22 and 23 in the middle, I think we started to work again on that, but unfortunately, the people who was were before able to give the money, they were gone, and so we are start, we have started from some new point, but with the same energy, and suddenly, because our movie should be named Wish, like the Wish, because it's about wishing something, and it's a mixture between the digital world and the fairy tale world and the reality, to say so, which is quite interesting, and suddenly I walked beneath a cinema in Germany, and I saw this Walt Disney movie, Wish, and I said no, impossible. So there was this title, and we had a conference as well. So we renamed the movie. I cannot tell you how it is named, but we found people with money. Again, we have a script writer, and so we're going in the next process. Then I'm going to contact different companies like Netflix, Walt Disney, and Paramount. At first, the three is enough. And we have in Germany an institution, it's called a Deutsche Film Ferderung. They give money by the state to people who create movies. I'm in touch with them. Helmut Stapel  54:45 The only point is that if you get money from the state of Germany, you have to integrate parts of Germany visual into the movie, so, and this is this is the reason why in Mission Impossible films. Tom Cruise starts from Berlin with a plane or a factory in Hamburg is going to explode, or whatever it is, because they got money from the German state for the production, and we worked on that already, and so this is the point I think. Also, 22 seven will be a very, very fascinating year for me, because we think about having the movie then on the market, it's Michael Hingson  55:27 exciting. Absolutely, well, so what, what, what would you say to someone to help them get motivated to achieve their goal, whatever that might be. Helmut Stapel  55:44 Whoa, as I also teach script writing, there's one point where we start in how this movie script starts. It always starts with an idea, and the idea is only there because you realize something, which has happened, and then you, you stuck to that, and you go on with that, and don't stop developing it till the script and the movie is done, and so it's the same in reaching your life goals. If you have an idea, maybe you have it by itself in your brain, or you are motivated by people, or you want to copy or cover whatever it is, but there are two chances, two channels to say, so you can go. The one is to demotivate yourself, because you say, 'Oh no, I don't think this is quite good. It could be better. There may be some people who might say it could be better, or they think about things what I think, and so then you lose your energy. The other channel is to realize that every everything you're thinking, everything you figure out is unique in the world and the universe, and if you just blow it away, it's gone. And this is such a waste, this is such a waste, and so just take the channel, keep the idea like a treasure, get energy, money, whatever it is, and think about that. Also, a tree is not a tree because it's grown up in 10 seconds, it starts small, and so start small, like I said, with the Savannah cinema thing with Stratton, have a closer look at my script. What do you think? And so then maybe in one and a half year, this movie will then be into the cinema, and also it doesn't matter what other things that are, if you stay to your idea, don't block yourself, and don't forbid you anything regarding thinking how something could work. Test it, as I said, and if it doesn't work, test another way. Thomas Alpha Edison, for example, before he, he was able to have electric light, I think he destroyed 1000 of the gluing, whatever, glooming, whatever, bomb, because the material wasn't right. And then he was asked by some journalist, wasn't that frustrating? And he said no, because then in this way I figured 1000 way out, how it does not work. You find 1000 Michael Hingson  58:36 things that didn't work, you don't have to worry about them anymore. Helmut Stapel  58:39 Yeah, and as I always say, even if you are going to be self-employed, looking for clients, whatever it is, if you are disappointed by yourself or by someone else, take it as a motivation. It's a motivation. It's not the end of the world, it's the start of doing something else. Michael Hingson  58:59 What do you think is the most important thing that you've ever Helmut Stapel  59:04 done. Meeting Daya, of course, I think that's Michael Hingson  59:08 a good answer. Helmut Stapel  59:09 This is one, and during my lifetime, I saved the life of seven people for real, biologically, financially, emotionally, so this is something I'm very proud on, regarding cost, cost a lot of energy to do that, but they are on their way, and they're still here, which is quite great. This is something I wrote, my first novel. Yeah, I saved my mother's life, which is quite a good thing, because she brought me to the world. This is something, and what else? Let me think, because it's such an important question. I think that this is something. Okay, and there was a day when I figured out that it's an important thing to love myself and. That I like myself, and even if there are things which are maybe not quite content with, but that I realized that I'm a worthwhile person in that way. When I give something to other people, and this way I have grown, because I don't expect people to give something to me back. If they do it, it's fine. Then I'm grateful, but in that way I can give a lot of things to other people, and this is, I think, a bit - this is a big gift. Michael Hingson  1:00:30 That's great. Well, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Helmut Stapel  1:00:35 It could be on my homepage, as it maybe appears. Then, after our podcast it's www stop press, what could it be.de stop press or Michael Hingson  1:00:48 de, okay, Helmut Stapel  1:00:49 or even also on on WhatsApp on my mobile phone would work because I love fast conversation and writing emails as well, yeah. Instagram would be a good idea. It's also stop press on Instagram. There are a lot of channels, but I think these are the most important. LinkedIn, for example, also Michael Hingson  1:01:12 stop press again. Helmut Stapel  1:01:14 Yes, Michael Hingson  1:01:15 okay. Well, I hope people will reach out. This has been absolutely fascinating. I have enjoyed it. I hope you have, and absolutely. And it's time for you to go to bed. It's getting late there. It's 10 o'clock. Yeah, I Helmut Stapel  1:01:27 think I will not go to bed. I asked my wife if we have an hour TV watching from the couch and having couch coach training. Well, there you go. Well, Michael Hingson  1:01:36 maybe now she can watch TV again, since we keep the internet free. But I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching us today. If you'd like, if you'd like to talk to me, any of you, feel free to email me at speaker at Michael hinkson.com that's s p e a k e r at m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com Hopefully, you will also reach out to Helmut, love to get a review from you, so wherever you're observing the podcast, please give us a review, and if you know of anyone who ought to be a guest, we'd love it if you'd introduce us. We're always looking for people to tell their stories, but Helmut, I want to thank you again for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Helmut Stapel  1:02:20 Thank you so much, Mike. It was my pleasure. Comes from the heart, and it was a very, very interesting and great time. And I hope we stay in touch to start some common projects that would be wonderful. Michael Hingson  1:02:30 Let's do it. But I really thank you for being here. Helmut Stapel  1:02:34 My pleasure, Mike. Michael Hingson  1:02:38 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. 1:03:40 Thank

Sometimes the path you planned isn't the one that leads to your greatest impact. I sit down with executive coach and former international lawyer TC Cooper to explore why being unstoppable isn't about following a perfect career path. Growing up in rural South Carolina before studying at Columbia Law School and building a 25-year legal career, TC shares how staying open to change helped her create a portfolio career centered on coaching, leadership, and artificial intelligence. You will hear why listening is one of the greatest leadership skills, how AI should support rather than replace human thinking, and why the best leaders help others discover their own answers. We also talk about career transitions, comparison, accessibility, and taking the first step when life feels uncertain. I believe you will find practical ideas that help you move forward with greater confidence and create your own unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 01:28 – Learn how your background can shape your future. 19:32 – Discover why great leaders ask better questions. 34:54 – Learn how to use AI without losing your creativity. 49:41 – Understand why embracing change creates new opportunities. 56:08 – Stop comparing yourself and focus on your own path. 1:00:12 – Take the first step when you feel stuck. About the Guest: Over more than 25 years, TC Cooper has curated a professional career that integrates her faith, passion for delivering practical legal solutions for modern businesses, along with her heart for entrepreneurship and deep appreciation for global cultures. Her work has taken her across six continents, where she has advised, trained, and worked with thousands of leaders through her advisory, coaching, and media platforms. TC Cooper is a founder, attorney, certified artificial intelligence governance professional, executive coach, and advisor who works with executives, founders, and boards navigating growth, complexity, and change. With more than two decades of legal and regulatory experience spanning federal government service, large law firms, and in-house leadership roles, she brings practical judgment and clarity to high-stakes decisions where risk, innovation, and leadership intersect. As the founder of UpwardAction Advisory and UpwardAction Media, TC advises professional service firms and leadership teams on AI governance, leadership development, and operational strategy. She helps organizations move beyond theory to implementation by building governance structures, decision frameworks, and leadership practices that allow artificial intelligence and emerging technologies to be used responsibly, effectively, and in alignment with business objectives. Through her executive coaching practice, TC works directly with senior leaders who are at an inflection point in their careers. Her clients include executives and founders managing significant change, reassessing priorities, or intentionally building portfolio careers that combine leadership roles, board service, advisory work, and personal pursuits. She helps leaders incorporate their passions into their professional lives while making clear, strategic decisions about what to take on, what to step away from, and how to lead through transition without losing momentum. TC is also the creator of FaithFocusFlow, a lifestyle and leadership platform for professionals who want their work to reflect both competence and conviction. In addition to her advisory and coaching work, she is deeply engaged in philanthropy, board service, and community leadership, with a strong focus on education and global engagement. Known for her direct approach, steady presence, and actionable insight, bottom line: leaders call TC when they are at an inflection point and want guidance navigating change, shaping a portfolio career, and making decisions about using, training, or governing artificial intelligence. Ways to connect with TC**:** Website:   http://www.coachtc.com  LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamcoachtc TikTok:       https://www.tiktok.com/@iamcoachtc About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

From sanding boats and watching his fingerprints disappear to building a future through digital marketing and entrepreneurship, Christopher Maritz shares the hard lessons that shaped his unstoppable mindset. Growing up in South Africa, Chris experienced life across different financial realities, from comfort to uncertainty, which fueled his determination to create long-term financial security for his family. In our conversation, he discusses discipline, accountability, faith, leadership, sales, wealth building, and the choices that separate average performers from elite ones. You will hear why he views work like a video game, how fatherhood changed his life overnight, and why listening, personal responsibility, and choosing the right circle can transform your future. If you're looking for practical lessons on financial growth, personal development, entrepreneurship, and building a lasting legacy, I believe you will find this conversation valuable Highlights: 00:56 - How childhood discipline shaped his work ethic. 10:18 - Why seeing different income levels changed his view of money. 12:46 - The promise he made to create financial security for his family. 27:31 - How faith helped transform his relationships and direction. 45:19 - Why becoming a father completely changed his habits and focus. 1:04:08 - How adversity helps build an unstoppable mindset. About the Guest: I am a 38-year-old South African male, married to a beautiful wife and have a beautiful 2.5-year-old little girl. We definitely did not come from money whatsoever. We had it pretty decent until about 10 or myself at least had it pretty decent until about 10, 11. We started going through a couple of financial struggles as the country was changing. So I have a unique perspective of having it really well off in the beginning of my life and then kind of having that taken away from me. So I am an overtly hard worker. We have been through multiple different industries. Myself, I started as a panel beater, data capturer, waiter at multiple different restaurants, moved into sales at a hospitality and catering company, broke records there, went to work at a technology solutions company and looked after the biggest video wall in the world and then from there moved into AVVC IT VoIP TC. And kind of that is where I moved into engineering a little bit. As a SCADA engineer, I was a service ops manager for a company. I really enjoyed it, but unfortunately I did not think that the finances there, in my personal opinion at least, were going to help me and my family succeed and build an empire. So we moved into digital marketing. I was able to find an amazing job through a gentleman. He is the best person, Brad Ferris. And I was given an amazing role at an amazing company. I learned a lot. I upskilled myself significantly through multiple different certifications and just being around a lot of skilled people. Fast forward to today, I am lucky enough to be at the best digital marketing agencies in the world. In Kick Charge Creative, I have been able to fund myself enough to buy the best lead generation software in the world, Seamless AI. I avidly enjoy spending time with my daughter, taking my family on holidays based on the hard work that I have put in. We are very interested in purchasing properties, investing in businesses, getting equity shares and splits. So you can kind of look at it like this, I used to be quite a bit of a lazy gamer computer gamer and now my new computer game is taking extreme hard work and transmuting it into finances for our family to build an empire and leave our beautiful little girl a legacy. Ways to connect with Chris**:** https://www.facebook.com/chris.maritz.2025/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-grant-maritz-219a6254/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

A narrowing field of vision became the very thing that sharpened Michael Ison's purpose. In this conversation, I talk with author, ghostwriter, and educator Michael Ison about growing up in a large Appalachian family, living with retinitis pigmentosa, and learning how to prepare for a future with less sight but more determination. Michael shares how watching his father struggle with blindness shaped his own approach to vision loss, why acceptance matters more than denial, and how a white cane transformed his independence. We also explore the power of storytelling, the value of education around blindness, and how writing memoirs helps people connect with the human experience. Michael's honesty, humility, and willingness to learn offer a powerful reminder that fear doesn't have to define the path ahead. Highlights: 01:33 - Growing up in Appalachia shaped Michael's work ethic and resilience. 08:14 - A return visit to Kentucky revealed the power of kindness and community. 20:02 - Accepting vision loss early makes adaptation easier and more effective. 26:51 - Using a white cane increased both independence and confidence. 46:09 - Fear became motivation to prepare for life with less vision. 56:46 - Ghostwriting allows powerful stories to reach and inspire others. About the Guest: As the ninth child of two hillbillies from the hollers of Appalachia, Michael fell in love with the overcomer's story. His parents, Elijah and Jōssie Ison, attended school until eighth grade and then dropped out to make ends meet. Leaving the mountains behind for the hard-pressed pavement of Detroit, they bootstrapped it through life and raised ten children of their own accord. By the time Michael was born, their endemic poverty had been overcome by their upward ascent. They carved out a typical, middle-class living, despite their indigent roots and proclivity for reproduction. From their rags-to-regular story, Michael learned that we all don't get a head start, but we all must start to get ahead. Elijah carved a niche in Michael's psyche through his storytelling, as did Jōssie through her never-say-die loyalty. As a pillar in the church, Elijah often taught Bible stories with a giftedness that kept the members captivated. He specialized in teaching the younger generations. At home, he spoke of Dynamite Red's lore—a feisty, red-haired child who created mischief like others left footprints—and Elijah spun those cautionary tales, magically keeping his children in stitches. Dynamite's imaginary legacy lived on, even after Elijah passed, but beyond the stories and Elijah's life, held fast the undying love of Elijah's dear wife. Jōssie demonstrated a capacity for love that outlasted the sun. Despite her children's tireless shenanigans or her husband's long-time dementia, her undying hope for them never burned out. She encouraged others through deeds, but not words, and wherever she went, she left a treasure trail of benevolence that whispered, “You can always come home, and you can count on me to never leave.” Those characteristics never let Michael go.   During his childhood, Michael gained an insatiable interest in sports and stories. His favorite comic strip, Peanuts, combined both loves. He identified with Charlie Brown, who, though he was a stupendously horrible athlete, was an indomitable character. Michael, on the other hand, performed superbly in athletics. During his senior year of basketball, even though he attended one of the smallest high schools in Ohio and his team lost every game, he somehow got cut from the team and watched from the bleachers. Despite that minor setback, like Good Old Charlie Brown, Michael forged ahead, determined to write a success story. At a tiny college in Nashville, Tennessee, he studied English and Bible and completed his four-year degree in merely eleven. After that, he continued working in the distribution industry while becoming a single father of three. Then, he achieved a dream. For nearly two decades, he'd set his sights on teaching English Language Arts, and in the fall of 2013, he began his second career at Northwest High School in Justin, Texas, finally hitting the bullseye. In the summer of 2016, another dream came true. Michael completed his first novel, Granted, and told the story of a man's search for redemption. After self-publishing that novel, a colleague asked if he'd consider ghostwriting. Devoid of failure's shortsightedness, Michael gave it a shot: The worst thing he could do was miss. Ten books later, Michael considers ghostwriting a success, for more than one reason. Not only does he tell stories, but he also captures others' visions despite his blindness. That's the plot twist. In 2006, Michael was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, and that loss inspired him. He returned to college. He finished his degree. He became a teacher. His eyesight waned. Accepting the challenge to ghostwrite was another step in that direction. As was leaving education and becoming a full-time entrepreneur. Each step Michael took proved to himself and others that adversity is an opportunity in disguise. Even the thirty thousand steps he took running a marathon. Sometimes, those with no vision have the best perspective. Michael has authored/coauthored twelve books, spoken internationally, and works with educators and leaders, positioning their experiences to promote powerful life changes. As an indispensable thought partner, he helps clients discover the presence that makes breakthroughs in their lives and yours. That story is not finished. Ways to connect with Michael: www.linkedin.com/in/michael-ison-a43a0023a https://michaeldaleison.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

The lessons that shape us often come from the places we never planned to go and the challenges we never expected to face. In this conversation, I speak with Eric Fisher about the experiences that shaped his approach to mental wellness, resilience, grief, and personal growth. Eric shares how martial arts taught him balance, self-control, and perseverance, and how those lessons now help him guide people through addiction recovery, relationship challenges, and life's hardest moments. We explore the realities of grief, the power of trust, the difference between inpatient and outpatient counseling, and why healing often begins with self-acceptance. Eric also discusses his books, including The Martial Art of Recovery and Buried Alive, revealing how personal experiences and family stories continue to shape his work. If you've ever faced loss, adversity, addiction, or the challenge of rebuilding after setbacks, I believe you will find both practical insights and encouragement in Eric's story. Highlights: 08:10 - Eric shares lessons learned from his FBI internship experience. 18:43 - A friend's crisis leads Eric and his wife to move to New Zealand. 23:38 - Martial arts becomes a foundation for recovery and mental wellness. 37:05 - Eric reflects on grief, loss, and the importance of support. 43:12 - Self-acceptance plays a critical role in addiction recovery. 50:26 - Couples learn to face problems together instead of against each other. About the Guest: Eric Fisher, a Canadian transplant, is a counselling therapist who resides in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Originally from Tennessee, he has over 15 years of experience working outpatient and inpatient treatment settings in the US and Canada. He has two books published at this time: The Martial Art of Recovery: Self-Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness, and Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt. Eric is a master practitioner of Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART) and is also trained in EyeMovement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), both of which are evidence-based treatments for trauma. Eric's private practice, Recovery Arts Counselling, serves individuals, couples, and families both locally and remotely. In the past, Eric has supervised masters-level graduate students and counsellors early in their careers. He has won multiple awards for his screenwriting: The Departure - official finalist in biographical/historical genre - 2014 Beverly Hills Screenplay Contest. Only 16 Miles - Finalist - 2014 Horror Screenplay Contest. Universal Escapade (Finalist - Top 25) - WeScreenplay International Screenplay Competition. Hipster Z (co-written) - best feature screenplay - 2017 Action On Film International Film Festival. Hipster Z - Best horror/comedy Screenplay - 2017 International Horror Hotel Film Fest. Additionally, Eric has a black belt in two martial arts styles: American Kenpo and Wadō-ryū. One interesting thing about Eric is that he had the opportunity to be an intern with the FBI -- twice. Eric enjoys hiking and riding his bike outdoors, music concerts, tasting new food dishes to keep his taste buds guessing, travelling near and far, and meeting people. . Ways to connect with Eric: Website: https://www.recoveryartscounselling.com Linktree:  https://linktr.ee/ericfisherauthor  Instagram - @recoveryartscounselling - https://www.instagram.com/recoveryartscounselling/ @ericfisherwriter - https://www.instagram.com/ericfisherwriter Linkedin - Eric Fisher - www.linkedin.com/in/eric-m-fisher-5b83724a Facebook - Recovery Arts Counselling - https://www.facebook.com/RecoveryArtsCounselling About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello there, everyone. I am your host Michael Hinkson, and you have found the Unstoppable Mindset Podcast. Today, we get to chat with Eric Fisher, who is a rather interesting person. I believe he's a counseling therapist, he's a transplant, he now lives in Calgary, but he used to live in Tennessee, very similar. I'm sure we'll have to find out more about that, but I'm really glad that that you're here with us. Eric, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. Eric Fisher  01:29 Yes, thank you for having me on, Michael. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. Michael Hingson  01:32 Well, I'm going to have to ask, how did you get from Tennessee to Calgary, besides by Claire? But you know, but Speaker 1  01:41 it's a bit to make a long story short. The wife, you know, yeah, she's from Calgary originally, so I surrendered up here. Michael Hingson  01:52 Yeah, well, is there a backstory that you want to tell? Speaker 1  01:57 You know, the quick version would be from Mississippi to New Zealand to Calgary, and that was over a span of, you know, two and a half years, and then finally to Calgary. After those other two places, was she Michael Hingson  02:10 with you during all of those? Mississippi, New Zealand, and then Calgary. Speaker 1  02:14 She was for the long haul. Yeah, yeah, she's experienced humidity and the dryness, all the extremes. Michael Hingson  02:24 When we moved to New Jersey in 1996 my wife didn't really want to go. She was a California native, but it was where the job had to take me, and it was either that or go find a new job, and I really didn't want to undertake a job search, because that's pretty traumatic. So, especially if you happen to be blind, because people think blind people really can't do stuff, and that's why the unemployment rate among employable blind people is in the 70% range. So the bottom line is that we moved to New Jersey, we were there for six years, and then of course the World Trade Center happened, which is kind of a dramatic way to allow us to get back to California, but it worked, so here we are. Speaker 1  03:05 Yeah, that is a lot of different places, and it's unfortunate with that percentage, right? Michael Hingson  03:10 Yeah, well, and she passed. She was in a wheelchair her whole life, and she passed in November of 2022 We were married 40 years, and I'm sure she's monitoring me from somewhere, so I work on continuing to be a good kid, because if I'm not, I'm going to hear about it somehow, Speaker 1  03:27 one way or another. There's, there's still some surveillance happening. There Michael Hingson  03:31 is, I am absolutely sure of it. Well, tell us kind of about the early era growing up, and all that. Speaker 1  03:37 Grew up in Arkansas, yeah, Newport, Arkansas, you know, grew up behind a Walmart in a small subdivision, and moved to Tennessee at an early age. I was around five years old, going over, going on six at the time, I believe, and so I understand what it means to kind of get uprooted from somewhere and place somewhere else, and my dad was in the medical profession, so that's the reason that we moved, and so that's a little bit about that. My mom's family is from Kansas City, so I really did enjoy going up to the city there and being with my mom's family during holiday seasons. That was really my only exposure to, like, a city, like an urban population, more than what I experienced anywhere else. So, and yeah, got one brother, played with him a lot, and a lot of it was being creative outside, getting outside and doing stuff, and having fun outside, you know, little bit different from a lot of kids today, perhaps. Michael Hingson  04:44 Yeah, well, it's also a lot scarier, I think, today, even though there's a lot of value in being outside. There are just so many crazy things going on. It's got to be scarier for kids, and certainly even more scary for parents, and they tend. To want to really monitor their, their children a lot more, and that's got us pluses, minuses, but it still has got to be really scary to let them just go outside. Speaker 1  05:09 Yeah, just, you know, looking at what's on the news and the possibilities of what could happen. Michael Hingson  05:16 Yeah, so where did you, or did you go to college? I assume you went to college. Speaker 1  05:22 I did. Yeah, I went to a small private Christian university in Tennessee called Freed Hardiman, and you know it was interesting because there's this whole thing about townies versus us being called freedies because of Freed Hardman. The course, the joke is, you know, free hardly because of the expense of going to the institution. Yeah. Michael Hingson  05:48 Well, with your experience and your observation in life, what do you think about going to a small college as opposed to a larger college? Speaker 1  05:55 I really enjoyed it, being from a rural area. I mean, it was a good transition for me, and just getting to know people I feel like might have been easier in a more rural setting, as opposed to urban. Michael Hingson  06:10 I went to University of California, Irvine, way back, starting in 1968 and when we started at UCI, there were like 25 2600 students, and I think when I graduated with my bachelor's, it was like a little over 3000 students, but I loved the fact that it was a smaller college. I think it was for me a lot better, and I, I really like the smaller college environment, and I understand why colleges have advantages when they're bigger, but by the same token, for students, if you want to really stand out, it's kind of harder to do with a big college. Well, and now University of California, Irvine, where I went to school, has 32,000 undergrads in it, Speaker 1  06:52 32,000 as opposed to the around, that's a huge jump from like 25 2600 yeah, Michael Hingson  07:00 yeah, and so it's, it's a huge place. I was there last a year and a half ago. I was invited to join. I couldn't do it as an as a student because the chapter was formed just as I was leaving, but Phi Beta Kappa, and they heard about me along the way, and I was invited to join as an alumni member back in 2024 So that's the last time I've been to UC Irvine. What a huge place! Speaker 1  07:29 Wow, yeah. Of course, UC Michael Hingson  07:30 Irvine, UCI really stands for Under Construction Indefinitely, so you know Speaker 1  07:38 they make that, they made that kind of humorous remark up here, with like winter and construction, that's the two seasons of Calgary. Yes, I totally get that. Michael Hingson  07:47 My brother-in-law lives in Sun Valley, Idaho, in Ketchum, and has been a skier for most of his life, and in the summer he's a master cabinet maker. Now he's a general contractor, but he's thinking about retiring, but in the winter everything goes by the wayside for skiing, Speaker 1  08:10 everyone's out on the slopes, you know. Well, and what he did Michael Hingson  08:12 to even make it more fun is he got his professional ski guide status in Europe and became a professional ski guide, taking people to do off-piece skiing in the French Alps, which is, Speaker 1  08:25 that's really nice, awesome. Michael Hingson  08:28 I love to, I love to say that I'm not gonna go skiing, because I know those trees are out to try to get me. Speaker 1  08:35 They start to grow their branches, you know? They just spring Michael Hingson  08:38 out at you when you're not looking. Speaker 1  08:40 Yes, I just.. Michael Hingson  08:42 I've never skied. I don't have anything against it. It's just not one of those things that I've done, but he enjoys it, and I'm sure it's a lot of fun to do. Speaker 1  08:51 Yeah, I can appreciate people that do. Michael Hingson  08:53 Yeah. Well, what did you do after college? Well, you got your undergrad, then you went on. Speaker 1  08:58 Yeah, so after my undergrad, I stayed at the university, and you know, I had a bachelor's in psych, and I was like, well, what do I do with this degree? And so I decided to move forward, since I didn't see too much availability, and did a master's in clinical mental health counseling, and during that time of my master's, I was able to intern with the FBI, which was a great opportunity. Michael Hingson  09:25 What caused you to do that? Speaker 1  09:28 I found, I mean, part of it was just a lot of curiosity, and of course, watching a lot of media and the work that they do. Yet I also found the possibility of implementing the psychology from a law enforcement angle on a federal level with this, so I did interning in my bachelor's FBI, that was really nice at a local office, and then later on in my master's at the FBI headquarters in DC, and just really interested in just the field and this the different. Psychological opportunities, Michael Hingson  10:02 you didn't stick with it, though. Or Speaker 1  10:05 I did the internships, I did the agent exam, and failed. Oh boy, just kind of had my time with it, and then moved on. It was a great experience. Michael Hingson  10:16 What you learned from it, the Speaker 1  10:19 importance of teamwork, the importance of community, the importance of intention to detail, and I can't say how I came to those, because then I have to bring up certain things that I can't talk about, but yeah, just the importance of being able to work with other people from other walks of life, and just seeing everyone's different perspectives is something that I learned, coming from, you know, small town, quite homogeneous, small university, and then being able to meet people from different parts of the country, even different territories, like Wall, it was, it was amazing to branch out and just have that life experience, Michael Hingson  11:06 get a lot of different experiences, and you saw how people in other parts of the world live, which obviously has to be an interesting perspective. Speaker 1  11:18 Yes, yes, it was really interesting, and just seeing how they think and their outlook on the world, and I had to take a polygraph examination for both internships, so the importance of honesty, and not that I didn't think honesty was important before, but definitely when you're under the microscope of being asked yes or no questions, it's an interesting experience. Michael Hingson  11:40 Yeah, well, I guess you must have passed the lie detector test. They didn't throw you away or put you in jail. Speaker 1  11:48 That's right. Neither of those happened. I did have one question asked of me that was a little bit ambiguous. It was coming up that I deceived. It's something that happened earlier in the day, and then they asked me about it, and then I said something that was not the truth, and then I explained the reasoning as to why. And then the agent was like, okay, thanks for letting me know, it's all good. It's like, okay, that's good. Michael Hingson  12:21 Yeah, they have to be pretty skilled interrogators to really be able to do that, and, and ask questions, and I, and I know no matter what's going on with the lie detector technology, they're observing you as well, so they're looking for things, and I suppose it's possible to fool the lie detector technology, but I know that it continues to get better too. Speaker 1  12:45 Yeah, and wondering if that's because, like, people are sociopaths, or they don't have any - they actually believe what they're saying. Yeah, yeah, Michael Hingson  12:54 I've never taken lie detector tests, but I know that for me, I'm not a good fibber, so I've got to tell the truth, and like I said, my wife's watching anyway, so I gotta always be a good kid. Speaker 1  13:06 If you were taking a lie detector test knuckle and you said something, you might get an invisible slap, like, oh, Michael Hingson  13:12 exactly, Speaker 2  13:13 okay, I get it, or Michael Hingson  13:16 a poke or something. Yeah, yeah, no. So, better, better to just be honest about it, but yeah, I understand what you're saying, but it is, it is fascinating. I'd love to experience taking a test sometime, but because I only understand all about it intellectually, having never seen it on television or anything like that, but by the same token, I'm glad that the technology exists, and I'm glad that the people do what they do, and I, I too very much believe in law enforcement. I believe in the value of the FBI and police, and so on. I took a couple of police-oriented courses when I was at UC Irvine. We had an engineering professor who was a reserve deputy sheriff, so we, we got to do ride-alongs, and even went down and visited the Orange County Jail once, and you know, because he, he said it all, so it's kind of fun to be able to do it, and I learned a lot and value that. Speaker 1  14:19 That's awesome. I'm glad you had that experience. Michael Hingson  14:21 Yeah, I think it's kind of cool to be able to have had that. So, you got a master's degree? Did you get a PhD? Speaker 1  14:29 No, you know, I was encouraged to do so, to pilot higher and deeper, as the PhD acronym goes. Yeah, and I just, I decided to not go that route. Michael Hingson  14:40 So, what did you do after you got your master's? Speaker 1  14:43 After the master's, I started to do well. I was doing my practicum during the master's, yet after the master's, I started to work primarily where I did my practicum in Mississippi and started actually doing counseling work. So I was doing what's called a mobile therapist. For this organization, where I would go to people's houses and speak with people, do counseling work, which was pretty cool. I got to be out in the community, meet a lot of folks, made confidentiality sometimes a little bit of a challenge, small town. And then two days a week I was in the office, doing whoever came in through the clinic, so I was in the, I was in the work, I was in the grind, just doing what I had been trained to do. Definitely learning on the job, though, for sure. Michael Hingson  15:27 Where in Mississippi, Speaker 1  15:29 Corinth, Mississippi, which is like right at the state line. Yeah, they actually have a road called State Line Road, where houses on one side, North or Tennessee houses on the other side have Mississippi license plates. Michael Hingson  15:45 That's pretty funny. In New Jersey, when we lived there, there were a number of streets in towns that had a very interesting environment, and that is that every town had its own tax base. There wasn't a statewide thing for property taxes and everything else, or for a lot of taxes, so every town had its own, and you could be on a street where someone may pay 1213, $14,000 a year in taxes, and if you lived on the other side of the street, you were in a different town, and your taxes were like 4800 $5,000 Speaker 1  16:24 Whoa, no, Michael Hingson  16:26 it's crazy. Speaker 1  16:27 That is a sheer difference. Michael Hingson  16:30 It is a huge difference, and the other thing that that we experienced is that a lot of the the work is done by lawyers when you're closing a house, for example. Back there, they didn't really have escrow, was all done through attorneys, and so on. And some of those people were involved in the tax stuff as well. It's kind of a very fascinating and interesting place to be, certainly different than what we experienced in California. Speaker 1  16:57 Yes, that sounds like a very, very different type of experience, for sure. Wow, wow. Okay, Michael Hingson  17:04 but you know things happen. Well, so you, you started doing counseling and therapy, and as you said, and I can appreciate how it must have been difficult sometimes from a confidentiality standpoint, because it is a small town and people overhear or talk about, and that's not always a good thing. Speaker 1  17:24 Yeah, you know, things like that come up. You know, you hear the whispers, and one time I was actually trying to find a place in a lower-income part of town, and I was doing circles in the neighborhood, and a police cruiser started to follow me, and so I stopped my car, got out with my credentials, towed the towed the police officer who I worked for, and then he was just kind of like, oh, okay, carry on. So, did Michael Hingson  17:46 you ask him for directions? Speaker 1  17:49 You know what, I did not know, like that would have made sense. I'm trying to look at find this house, never. Oh, over there, sir? Okay, but no, I did not. Michael Hingson  18:05 So, how long were you in Mississippi? Then Speaker 1  18:09 I was in Mississippi from around 2009 to 2013 I want to say, we left. We left for New Zealand for the whole year 2013 so no, 2012 sorry, the end of 2012 so about three and a half, three or so years. Okay, yeah. How did you Michael Hingson  18:33 meet your wife in all this Speaker 1  18:34 online? Yeah, back when it was clandestine, like you met somebody online, are they an ax murderer? Can you trust them? Do you need to get references, which she did. Yeah, yeah. And we checked you out, huh? She checked me out for sure. She even called people that I gave references for. And then we courted for two and a half years. And then after that, tied the knot in Tennessee, moved to Mississippi. Well, she moved to Mississippi, where I was already living, and yeah, we were there until we went to New Zealand about 10 months later. Michael Hingson  19:06 So she was living in Tennessee at the time, Speaker 1  19:09 she was up here in Calgary, or she was in Calgary. Michael Hingson  19:12 Okay, Speaker 1  19:12 we, we got married in Tennessee, Michael Hingson  19:14 okay. Well, that's that's cool though. What, what prompted the trip and moving to New Zealand for a year, I've been there, and I actually spent three weeks there, and very much enjoy it. Speaker 1  19:28 Whereabouts? Well, I wanted to ask, all over New Michael Hingson  19:30 Zealand, I mean, I was there with the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind. They asked me to come and speak in 2003 talk about September 11, and so on, and they were trying to raise funds, so we helped them raise something like over $375,000 in a three week period, and literally I had 21 speaking events in 13 days all over both islands. Speaker 1  19:55 Wow, that's that's a, that's a lot of speaking events, and a certain amount of days. Days you've been, you probably been close more than I've been, more places than I've been. So, what, what prompted the move was a friend of mine I had made previously being there. He reached out to me through just electronic media. He was having a spiritual emergency, and he asked me, he asked me to come to come help him, and so I just said, "Sure, let's do it. My wife and I left the rental unit, the rental house where we were staying, and left furniture behind, two cars behind, appliances, and we just, just left him, or there for 13 months, didn't look, didn't look back. Michael Hingson  20:45 Did you spend any time in Dunedin while you were there? Speaker 1  20:49 We didn't spend any time in Dunedin. We weren't only there for like a week when we did some vacation time. Michael Hingson  20:57 Yeah, I, they gave me literally a half, three quarters of a day off from speaking. In fact, they said you can play in Dunedin, and so we were there, and it was one, I guess, was a one full day. They had some unique toys to play with in New Zealand. They had a thing called a bungee rocket. Have you ever heard of that? Speaker 1  21:22 A bungee rocket. No. So, Michael Hingson  21:24 you know what bungee cords are, and you stretch them out and all that. Well, the bungee rocket, you attach bungee cords to this platform, this cage, but the bungee cords are attached to a device way up high, and then they're also attached to this plat, this cage, then they pull the cage down, and they fasten it, so the bungee cords are very stretched, and then people get in, and they sit down, and they fasten seat belts, and then when everybody's all secure, they loose the platform, and the bungee cords pull this thing up like a rocket. Speaker 1  22:01 Whoa, yeah. I wasn't about to do that. I was with someone who Michael Hingson  22:05 did, and he came off apparently as white as a sheet. He said, "I'm never gonna do that. Speaker 1  22:10 It was a one and done experience for him. It was Michael Hingson  22:16 for me. It was, "I'm not gonna do that, brother. And I had my guide dog, and somebody would have held the dog, but I wouldn't do that. I have other memories, which are more fun, I think, and probably for me more pleasurable. Speaker 1  22:31 Yeah, one of the things we did down on the South Island was some knife making, and it was really.. it was something I surprised my family with. They didn't know we were doing that day, and this guy was hilarious. I mean, something straight out of a documentary about New Zealand, as far as, like, locals, you would see he had a witty sense of humor, and he would, he would like, finish off the knives for us after we did the preliminary steps, just to make them look nice. Yeah, that was one of my favorite memories down there. Michael Hingson  23:00 Wow, yeah, I've, I've got a lot of memories, even though it was back in 2003 so 22 years, 22 and a half years, but I love the memories, and love being down there was a wonderful place, Speaker 1  23:13 awesome, so that was pretty cool. Well, so you, you came back, and, and you eventually ended up in, in Calgary, which is, which is great. So, what do you do now? Got a few hands in a few honey jars. I have a private practice for the counseling. I work for a retreat center company out of a place called Brad Creek, called Vita Wellness. I work for a nonprofit up in a place called Erdrie as a consultant. I work for a clinic remotely that's in the city as an associate. Am I forgetting anything? I think that's the main ones right now. Also, work doing like couples therapy for a relationship-based app. Yeah, so that's a lot of people that are in the States, there. So, it's yeah, few things to keep me busy. Speaker 3  24:13 If you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the unstoppable mindset community, Michael Hingson  24:47 they do well. You also write Speaker 1  24:50 that as well. Yeah, Michael Hingson  24:52 you've written a couple of books, and I guess you've also done some screenwriting and all that, and love to hear more about all that. Tell. You bought your books. Speaker 1  25:01 Yeah, the first book that I published, self-published, and that was two years ago now. That was called, that is called The Martial Art of Recovery: Self Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness. Say three times real fast. So, yeah, that book is all about the intersection of martial arts concepts with addiction and mental health treatment, so that has personal experiences, and my times in the martial arts, and also I just bring in like holistic health techniques, and also I get some interviews, some of them are a little bit shorter than others, but at least some some chunks from people that I know in different disciplines, different fields, like an old martial arts teacher, a medicine family medicine doctor here in the Calgary area, people like that. So that was that was about a 14 month writing experience before it was published. Michael Hingson  25:57 When was it published? Speaker 1  26:00 Back in March of 2023 Michael Hingson  26:05 Okay, not your first book. Speaker 1  26:07 Not that's my first book. Yes, Michael Hingson  26:09 yeah, Speaker 2  26:10 yeah. Michael Hingson  26:12 What do you, what do you think of being an author and the whole experience of writing? Speaker 1  26:19 There was not. there was a lack of faith, for sure. I had a really difficult time, even acknowledging, "Hey, this is something I could do. Had a lot of self-doubt, and so even the process I found pretty daunting, pretty, like pretty challenging, for sure. And I do enjoy the process. It's like a double helix, though. I, I enjoy it, yet it kind of puts the screws to me, as far as enjoyment, but also challenge, yet I do enjoy the experience and being able to get my voice out there, yet I listen to someone else talk about publishing, and the person said, you know what, when you publish it, now it's that person's turn to take it on and they can make it their own, Michael Hingson  27:04 yeah. Speaker 1  27:04 So I found that to be a really cool way to look at it. So yeah, and I enjoy it. It's been, it's been good, it's been fun. Michael Hingson  27:13 And then you wrote a second book, Speaker 1  27:15 I did. Yeah, that one's called Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt. It's a lot more personal, I think, because it is about a true story that happened to my dad, and something that was quite harrowing for him, which, yes, as the book title suggests, is what happened, and part of the book is about the interviews I did with the three men involved with this very scary incident back in February of 2000 so 25 years now, and talks about their different perspectives on what happened that day when they were digging for Native American artifacts, arrowheads, and I bring in some self-help concepts that apply to what happened that day, and also just for anyone that's looking to bring those into their own lives, Michael Hingson  28:03 what happened? Speaker 1  28:05 Yeah, so they were digging at what's called an overhang, which is like a cliff face that shuts out small little, I don't know if you would even call it a cave, but there was a place underneath the overhang that kind of came in anyway, when Native Americans would come to an area, they wouldn't ever bring dirt out, they would always bring dirt in, and so there was so much dirt that was piled up over the years that my dad and the people that were digging with him, I was there six months to the day before this incident happened, we would, we would have to dig, they would dig to get to their arrowheads that were quite far down underneath the dirt, Michael Hingson  28:46 yeah, Speaker 1  28:47 yeah, yeah, and so this unfortunate day, my dad was in a hole, probably I don't know, eight or nine feet, and a little dirt fell on him, and you know, he kind of joked with his friend Jason, who was further up this hall, and a few seconds later all that dirt just came in, just, just quickly, automatically. He was vanished without a trace, and then a big rock came down on that dirt. If it wasn't for that third person that decided to come that very morning, they did not come before. His name's Jerry. Then I'm sure that my dad would have died, Michael Hingson  29:25 because Speaker 1  29:25 there was no way that Jason, who also was stuck up to like his knee in dirt, could have got out in time to get the rock and then to unearth my dad. So, Michael Hingson  29:39 yeah, a fascinating book. Now, you, you self-published that one as well. Speaker 1  29:43 I did, didn't wait around, just went ahead, and yeah. Michael Hingson  29:49 Do you have other books in you? Speaker 1  29:51 I have one done. I needed to get it edited, and editorial reviews, and get my book cover designer over in Italy to do her magic. She did on the last two books, so yeah, I do have one in the, in the oven. Michael Hingson  30:05 Can you tell us a little about what it will be about, or what it's called, or anything? Speaker 1  30:08 Sure, the book right now is called I'm Listening, and it's all about my experiences, my pitfalls, my learnings as a therapist, and so it's a bit of a memoir of my professional work in the field, and some, some personal experiences. Michael Hingson  30:25 I think one of the most powerful things about books, especially when you're, when you're dealing with more nonfiction, because fiction books usually have stories with them, but a lot of nonfiction books don't really provide enough, I think, of a personal inroad to the individual who wrote the book. One of my big beliefs, one of my pet peeves, is I think textbooks are so boring, like physics. My master's degree is in physics, and I maintain that the big problem is that none of the physics professors who are writing all these books ever put anything in about their own personal experiences to really get people excited because of of their their stories and what they can teach through their stories. It's just all math and equations and and words, just about the physics, but never the other part. I think that textbooks would be better if they put some stories in them, Speaker 1  31:22 I think. So, too, I think people's eyes wouldn't come out of their sockets, and they wouldn't, you know, be comatose. You know, they can actually keep up, and they can be engaged and involved with the material. Yeah, Michael Hingson  31:35 I had a colleague when we were at UC Irvine. We were in the same physics class together, and he had this one book, and he noticed that there didn't seem to really be any typos or whatever in it, and he meticulously, through the whole quarter, went through that whole book, and I think he finally found one misspelled word, and he was so proud of both that there were there were no others other than the one, but that he found one misspelled word we do with our lives. Speaker 1  32:07 What people do sometimes for kicks. Well, I'm glad. I wonder where that word was. Like, did he go through the whole book, and it's like on the last page, or you know, where is that at? It was Michael Hingson  32:22 near the end, but it wasn't on the last page, but it was.. it was.. it took him a long time to find it. Speaker 1  32:29 I wanted to do that with my first book. I could have easily done a book about the intersection of martial arts themes with, you know, mental wellness, but I mean, why not? I mean, I had that experience for over four years in the martial arts. Why not do that? Michael Hingson  32:48 So, tell me about that. You've mentioned martial arts several times, so obviously you've had some involvement with martial arts. Speaker 1  32:54 I have. Yeah, so when I was a preteen, I got a black belt in what's called a Water Rule Karate, so it's like W A D O R Y U, and when I was a teenager, like 16 to 18, I was doing what's called American Campo, and that did have a little bit of Jiu Jitsu thrown into the mix, Michael Hingson  33:16 so what prompted the interest in doing that Speaker 1  33:20 first was my dad, you know, part of my family was interested, so the guy, why not? And I don't know at that time whether I was experiencing bullying. Unfortunately, I experienced bullying like going to church before church started, which was unfortunate, say. So I mean, I think it was just a really good experience for me, looking back for balance and discipline in that way, and getting to meet people in the community. I can't, I can't initially remember what prompted that. My dad was interested, my brother was too, so was I. And then when I was 16, I was like, let's pick it up, let's do something different, let's try something new, and so we were able to go to this really small outfit, which was called the Snake Pit at the time, very different from the more like larger dojo in the community from my early years. Michael Hingson  34:14 What has being involved with the martial arts done to help you or to you or for you in dealing with mental wellness and the whole issue of what you do today. How is martial arts affecting all of that? Speaker 1  34:35 Yeah, it's a really good question. Martial arts showed me the importance of balance when we're doing sparring, when we're doing more, so when we're doing training on techniques, I can't be too far away when I'm sparring someone, because then it's not natural, it's not organic, nor, but I can be so close that I might hit them, so there needs to be some type of balance and self control, and that's. Something else, as well as being out of some self control. Yeah, Michael Hingson  35:05 well, martial arts is, I understand, it seems to me, as much about your mental being as learning physical techniques, because there is a whole lot that really comes down to how you approach it mentally. Am I correct? Speaker 1  35:24 Yeah, there's a big piece when it comes to stamina. When I was doing sparring, I actually had to find a place between being so passive, but also not being super aggressive. Like, how do I get that mental, emotional stamina to do this powering, you know, in a way that was quite balanced. Yes, but there is a lot when it comes to being in touch with my body, being in touch with where my mind is, with focus, with being not beating myself up, not really being perfect, or trying to achieve perfection. Yet, there's a certain vulnerability that comes with that in the mind, and also when it comes to the body, Michael Hingson  36:06 how so Speaker 1  36:10 well, there's vulnerability just simply with doing different techniques, because if you don't, if you don't like being touched, then it's going to be really difficult, because there's often a lot of touch happening, and and when it comes to the mind, it's there's vulnerability with putting myself out there and being seen by others, because we're often watching one another with training, and so there is this piece around vulnerability around, hey, you know what, whatever they think, okay, they can think I'm still working on this technique, Michael Hingson  36:40 mm and it, and it does, as you grow mentally with, with martial arts, I'm sure that it also helps in terms of your resilience. Speaker 1  36:55 Resilience plays a key factor, indeed, because you know, when it comes to even with sparring, you know, getting hit, I can't just kind of, oh, I got hit and I want to go back and I want to go in the corner. Well, no, I've got to keep going. Yeah, gotta keep moving, gotta keep walking and deflecting, and you know, going with the punches. And I, there was one experience with a young man, at least two years younger than me, he was a silver glove boxer, like a champion silver glove, and there had to be some resilience for me there, because I was getting clobbered, I was getting, I was getting hit over and over, because he was using a boxing type of, you know, boxing moves I wasn't used to defending against, and he was quick, and there comes a certain level of humility when it comes to being in the martial arts as well, because there's going to be experiences like that. Michael Hingson  37:49 Well, did you eventually get to the point where you could defend yourself against him? Speaker 1  37:55 He wasn't there for too long. Yeah, the more yet, the more that I was able to work with him, the more I was able to, you know, understand a little bit more where he was coming from with the moves, Michael Hingson  38:05 right. Well, in your life and all the things that you've done, have you experienced grief in any way? And kind of, what was that? Speaker 1  38:14 Yeah, there was a moment, there wasn't an issue when it came to a disenfranchised loss. My wife had a silent miscarriage, and so that was pretty brutal. How that turned out for her, and vicariously for me, and seeing her go through that really difficult, emotionally painful situation was hard. And so I mean, I've sure I've lost all but one grandparent at this point, and I did lose some child, like one childhood friend, when I was 16 to a car accident that was pretty brutal. Yet this loss was, yeah, was really difficult, because it's something that a lot of people don't understand, they don't want to talk about, they don't know what to say, or it's really difficult just to listen, and that was hard. Michael Hingson  39:09 Yeah, but at the same time, as you well know, from all that you've experienced, God doesn't give us things that we can't handle, and we have to learn to move forward Speaker 1  39:22 with resilience, with God's help. Michael Hingson  39:24 Yeah, Speaker 1  39:24 yeah, with prayer, perseverance. Yeah, Michael Hingson  39:27 I lost my father, actually, on November 1 of 1984 and my mother in May of 1987 and then my brother actually developed breast cancer in 2011 and they, they dealt with it, and he went into remission, but it came back, and he didn't take care of himself very well, as I understand it, because he lived in Florida, and we were in California, but anyway, it came back, and it metastasized, and so we lost him in 2015 so at the same time. Yeah, there were relatives on my wife's side that we lost a couple very unexpectedly, and yeah, you do learn to deal with grief, but you learn that you got to go forward, and so when Karen passed in 2022 at least it wasn't totally all of a sudden, so I had some time to prepare, but you know, I still miss her, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Speaker 1  40:23 Yeah, for sure. I, and I mean, losing your parents around two and a half or so years apart, and with your brother, and then with your wife, that's a lot. That's a lot. Yet I hear that even though there was some preparation time for you, it can still be, it can still be difficult, it can still hit the nail, you know. I was doing some grief work, a grief course, and they showed us this poem called Whose Whose Grief Is Worse, basically. And there were these two experiences of someone that lost someone suddenly and someone that knew, and at the end of the poem. Basically, it's both are painful. There is no worse grief. Michael Hingson  41:05 There's no, there's no wrong or right answer to all of that. It's, it's different, but we all can learn to deal with it. I know when the events of September 11 happened, for me, ironically, the greatest blessing I had was that the media got my story and we started getting a lot of requests for interviews and my wife and I decided we would accept them and I got asked so many questions by so many different reporters, some dumb questions were absolutely stupid, idiotic questions, but some that were very insightful, and so I probably was able to move on from that day much more because of all of the questions and getting used to dealing with those questions than anything else that could have come along. It Speaker 1  41:58 was a choice, and you probably appreciated those reporters that took the time to ask those carefully planned questions. Michael Hingson  42:06 I've had some people, no matter how many times the story gets repeated, who still say, "What were you doing in the World Trade Center, anyway? And I'm sitting there going, "Have you read Thunderdog? Have you read any of the stories in the press? What do you mean, what was I doing in the World Trade Center? Speaker 1  42:23 It's not like, you know, it's out there, you know, it's been published, you can read it. Yeah, Michael Hingson  42:30 I wasn't a spy for the terrorists, I can tell you that. Speaker 1  42:36 I wouldn't, I wouldn't have thought that for a second, Michael Hingson  42:41 but but, but you know, things happen, and you never know where you're going to be, you never know what might come up, and it's just one of those things that we, we all really need to deal with in one way or another, and that's just what's so important. Speaker 1  42:56 Absolutely, you know, one of the quotes I heard from my training was, and I take it with me, and I, I definitely relate to it personally. Is joy shared is joy doubled, and grief shared is grief halved, and the stuff we're doing, even today, and even those listening that might have been through grief, is as long as we're able to talk about it, and just talk about something that does not make any sense whatsoever to us, that's part of the healing process. Michael Hingson  43:23 Yeah, it's important to talk about it. It's important to share, and I understand you want to be careful. You don't want to just talk necessarily about it with anyone, but you do need to find people that you can share with and that you can talk to about Speaker 1  43:39 it. Totally, yeah, the grocery store clerk, you know, that I'm getting my bread and butter from, maybe they're not ready for that, that particular topic, Michael Hingson  43:48 yeah, Speaker 1  43:48 yeah, Michael Hingson  43:50 and and the thing that we all need to do is to really, I think, do a lot more to listen to our inner voice, it'll tell us what we need to do if we listen, Speaker 1  43:58 yes, I believe that for sure, I've seen, I've seen that. Yeah, Michael Hingson  44:03 so you've dealt with all the, this, the psychological work that you do. You dealt with addiction, and so on. How does martial arts play into that? What have you learned from martial arts that helps you in dealing with recovery from addiction? Speaker 1  44:16 Oh, well, where to start. I think that one piece to really focus on is this concept of self love, and I don't mean self love like I'm better than other people out there, but just being okay with where I'm at for myself, but still pushing myself to learn new things, so some acceptance about where I'm at when it comes to martial arts, that has to be there. I might not be doing the technique perfectly, and I, there was times where I could really easily beat myself up mentally, like, "Oh, why can't I get this? Yet it's just trying to take a step back and see that I'm worthy enough to make the. Approach to make these changes when it comes to addiction. I'm worthy enough to seek out help. These feelings I have that they're okay to feel, and I don't have to beat myself up for this. Michael Hingson  45:11 Yeah, because addiction is is a disease, and I think anyone who condemns somebody just because, for example, they use drugs, and, well, they shouldn't do that. They're dumb for doing it. They really miss assess what's going on. Speaker 1  45:28 People that have that mindset that it's more of a mere choice, they don't understand that if you put, you know, a shot of alcohol in front of someone and you tell them not to drink it, and you put a gun on them, they're going to be wondering, maybe he'll slip his hand off the trigger, you know, that kind of thinking, that's that's the disease aspect. And I recommend anybody that wants to know more about addiction being a disease, check out Kevin McCauley's documentary, Pleasure Unwoven. It's a really good documentary that shows the different aspects of the disease. Yeah, Michael Hingson  46:08 I have never taken drugs in that way, and don't want to, but again, that's my choice, and I've learned enough from other people that I know that if, if I'm having a problem, taking drugs isn't going to help me solve the problem, and it isn't going to even really help me hide from it, but I guess that's just my makeup that I know that I have to face whatever comes along head on. Speaker 1  46:33 Yes, the resilience piece, Michael Hingson  46:36 the resilience piece, and I've wanted to do that. Speaker 1  46:39 Awesome, I can see with everything you've been through, Michael, you've definitely lent in, you've leaned in, you've pushed forward. Michael Hingson  46:47 Well, I think that part of the issue is as a, as a blind person who's faced a lot of challenges and seen things, what I choose to do whenever anything happens to me is I want to learn from it, so I don't want to ignore it, even if it's something that's totally not related to me in any way. I want to learn from it, if I'm involved, because I think that's the only way I'm going to be able to make sure that I deal with anything like that, any kind of surprise. The next time I talk about a lot when I am talking to people about blindness, about surprises, and I talk about the fact that I could be crossing a street, I could get to the corner and listen to the traffic, and when I hear the traffic going the way I want to go, then I'll cross the street. So I start crossing a street, and all of a sudden I hear a car from behind me, and it's not going the way I want to go, suddenly it's, it's turning, or there's somebody that is is across the street from me, not the way I'm going, and I start to cross the street when it's supposed to be my turn, and they decide they're going to go, and so I am, I've learned to constantly be alert, but at the same time, what I have to do is figure out very quickly, do I want to go forward or do I want to go backwards to have the best chance of getting away from this, Speaker 1  48:11 which way do I move in my direction with my spatial awareness with your spatial awareness, and that, and that brings me to another, I think, actually, another piece with martial arts and how it intersects is treating the addiction like an opponent that may be sauntering around that corner at any moment in time, and being able to see that I need to be on the alert, I need to know more than one direction, as you mentioned a moment ago, more than one direction that I could go, rather than just the free, the ability to have choice. Yeah, Michael Hingson  48:51 can addiction truly be cured? Not the reason I asked the question is I know so often I hear when I hear people talking about alcoholism, you can't really cure alcoholism, and maybe that's true. I don't know, Speaker 1  49:10 you know, it depends on how you ask, from a medical standpoint, from a disease standpoint, since we see it as a chronic progressive primary condition, which means nothing necessarily causes it every time. The answer would be no, because of its progression. However, can it can addiction, whether it's alcoholism, whatever, be stunted as far as its progression? Absolutely. Can be, can people live fulfilling lives? Absolutely. Can there be reversal of certain symptoms and signs. Yes, however, just I think that to say, you know, one day someone's gonna wake up and they no longer have cravings or the warning signs or the the neurobiology. Logical strings, it's tough to say that's a no. Michael Hingson  50:04 Yeah, thanks. That's the makeup of the individual that brings that about. I, I have.. I take an occasional drink. In fact, Karen and I used to have a drink on Friday night, one drink, and I kind of honor her by having a bourbon and seven every Friday night when I make, when I cook dinner, but one, because I've never been a great fan of the taste of alcohol, but I understand there are a lot of people who really like the taste of it, and that has led them into pretty dark places, which is unfortunate. Speaker 1  50:36 Yeah, still Michael Hingson  50:37 happens. Speaker 1  50:38 It does still happen, for sure. And I appreciate you liking bourbon. We make a bourbon walnut ice cream, and I don't ever drink the bourbon by itself. It's been in the cupboard for months now. And anyway, Michael Hingson  50:55 well, my bourbon and seven is a whole lot more seven up than bourbon. Speaker 1  50:59 Totally right, and good for you for having that ritual, you know, for you and for Michael Hingson  51:06 her. That's kind of neat to be able to do that, but I've just never felt that I need to, and I'm, and I'm glad. So it's continuing to share that. Well, you do a lot of couples therapy. How does all that go, and what kind of challenges does that make for you and for them? Speaker 1  51:29 Well, I'll give you this short story. We were eating at Denny's with this man, and just a friend of a friend, and he said to us, he asked me about my work, and I told him, yeah, I'm working with, you know, a lot of addiction, and with couples, he's like, I heard from another counselor, Eric, that if you really want to make it hard on yourself, you work in addiction, and you work with couples that always make it have a challenge, and, like, yeah, true. And so, when it comes to working with couples, it is challenging. There's something about having two people to work with, there's so many dynamics at play, different than perhaps being with just one person, you know, coming from two different histories, biographically different life upbringings, family upbringing, personalities. It can be really challenging. I do appreciate challenge. I've learned so much. I learned from each couple that I work with, and it's a whole different beast. Michael Hingson  52:29 Yeah, and, and it is. I like what you said, though. You learn from it, and that's probably the most important thing that any of us can do with anything in any endeavor that we undertake is that we learn from it. Speaker 1  52:44 If I can't learn from something, what am I, what am I doing there? And if I'm not learning from something, how can that benefit other people that I'm trying to help support? So, yeah, I tried to get the couple to start to be, you know, them versus the concern, rather than you versus me. That's a big goal of couples therapy. Michael Hingson  53:08 That's an interesting way to put it. That makes a lot of sense. I've never thought of it that way, but it's them. It does have to be them, but them versus the concern. That, that's interesting. Speaker 1  53:18 Yeah, yeah. Then they start, they start looking at how can we collaborate rather than trying to annihilate each other. Michael Hingson  53:26 Yeah, Speaker 1  53:27 metaphorically speaking, Michael Hingson  53:31 so you've talked about the work that you did when you were in Mississippi, when you worked in small towns, and so on, and you worked in probably some fairly substantive places as well. What do you find that's different about outpatient versus inpatient work, and in terms of what you do and how you approach it? Speaker 1  53:52 Well, I'll just say that doing inpatient work is kind of like raising kids, so not.. I mean, I don't have any experience, because I don't, I don't have kids, I got nieces and nephews yet. I know that feeling well. Yeah, there's just something about being around someone more than just like that hour, hour and a half, seeing them like eight or nine hours a day, you get to know them pretty well, as opposed to, you know, once an hour every one or two, three weeks, that in that comes some benefits with the inpatient work. Yet also it can be really difficult when it comes to boundaries. They feel like you can do things that maybe you're not able to do professionally with them, maybe like as far as like self-disclosure wise or things like that, and there's just there's just a thing around boundaries, and even with the inpatient work, you know, I'll have one client come and say, 'Hey, this other counselor said I could do this, and I would be like, 'Okay, and then I found out later the counselor didn't say that at all, so there's that type. The drama got to deal with, with it, with the inpatient work, Michael Hingson  55:04 but you don't find that as much without patient, because you tend to be able to get closer to the individual, and that probably also develops a higher trust level. Speaker 1  55:14 There is a higher trust level if you mean, like, doing outpatient work, or outpatient, but we have the outpatient, for sure, because I am solely with them, and they know that time is of the essence, whether it's weekly or bi-weekly, whatever, and I'm being able to focus on them, for sure, yeah, Michael Hingson  55:35 and it's a lot harder to do that when it's an impatient kind of situation Speaker 1  55:40 in my two experiences, both up in Calgary and also Mississippi, with inpatient, there's so many other things in the inner workings of doing inpatient going on that sure I can still add that time with somebody, yet I'm also thinking about, you know, the next class and next group offering other logistical duties, it's a little bit easier to do that one on one. Yeah, indeed, indeed. Michael Hingson  56:10 Do you think that you can develop? I assume the answer is yes, but I'll ask, do you think that it's possible to develop the same level of trust in doing inpatient work, or it may be harder, but can you do it? Speaker 1  56:28 That can happen on a case by case basis, depending on my relationship with someone. Yes, I can get there, and you know, just.. and sometimes, paradoxically, it can happen even quicker than outpatient, depending on the situation, because I am with them. There is a positive with that. Yes, Michael Hingson  56:48 it's.. it's a matter of working to build it, you know. And, unfortunately, human beings, especially nowadays, are so mistrustful of so many things, we've learned not to trust, and so in my latest book, Live Like a Guide Dog, I talk about that a lot, because while I think dogs love unconditionally, they don't trust unconditionally, but they're open to trust, they want to develop trusting relationships, and we just assume everyone has their own hidden agendas, and it's so hard to develop trusting relationships, Speaker 1  57:24 very hard, very difficult. It takes time and effort and patience, tolerance for myself, the other person, and that makes sense with dogs, because I mean, enough's, you know, when a dog's been abused, they don't want to trust right away, no, for sure. Michael Hingson  57:38 Well, but even even dogs that aren't abused, like I believe it takes for me, and I think if you really analyze it, for most people with a guide dog, I think it takes a good year to develop such a working relationship that you develop such a trust that essentially you each know what the other is thinking and you really know how to work it. It's not that they're not mistrustful, but they're open. They're open to trust, but you've got to, you've got to gain their trust, and that's my job as the team leader. And I'm supposed to be the team leader, but it also means that I have to agree, well, earn or gain their trust. The neat thing, and what makes it possible to do that, assuming that you approach it the right way and don't assume a dog is just a dumb animal, which they're not, is that in fact working with a dog, you know that they're more likely to be open to trust, and that makes it a little bit easier than our prejudice that says everybody's got a hidden agenda that we got to focus on, Speaker 1  58:47 yeah. And appreciate you sharing that, and it shows just the amount of work that comes into play with trust. Michael Hingson  58:54 Yeah, it's it's a challenge, but it is doable. Well, so what's next for you? Speaker 1  59:01 Yeah, just doing some work after this with the work that I do, and yeah, it's starting to get that book into the place of having editorial reviews and starting to get that edited professionally. Michael Hingson  59:14 Have either of your books been converted to audio? Speaker 1  59:17 The second one has. Yes. Michael Hingson  59:22 Is it? Where is it available? Audible, or how is it available? Speaker 1  59:25 It's my own special design. It's actually got a, it's got a Texan man, a doing it. He's got a nice voice, pretty soothing. Yet it's through what's called the Hero app, H I R O. And I can send you the link if you're interested. For that, Michael Hingson  59:40 love to, yeah, Speaker 1  59:42 yeah. Michael Hingson  59:44 Well, this has been enjoyable, certainly by any standard. If people want to reach out to you, maybe use your services or talk with you. How do they do that? Speaker 1  59:53 They can find me, Michael, through Recovery Arts counseling.com and that's Counseling with 2l's since I'm up here in Canada. You can find me through Instagram at Eric Fisher Writer or Recovery Arts Counseling. You can find me Facebook the same way on LinkedIn, just type in my name. You can look for, like, Calgary, like counselor recovery counseling. What do else? That's right, everybody learned something new today, if they did not, if they didn't already. So, those are a few Michael Hingson  1:00:25 ways. Well, that's great. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be here, and I value greatly your insights. I've learned things, and I always enjoy doing that. And I hope all of you out there listening have as well. Love to get your thoughts, so I'd love to hear from you. Feel free to email me at Michael M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Wherever you're listening or watching, or both, this podcast, please give us a five star review. But even more important than a review, a rating, five star rating, give us a review. We really value reviews and people who might be interested in listening to our podcasts, are going to read those reviews. I can tell you for sure that people love to know what others think. So, we value your reviews a great deal. And if any of you, including you, Eric, know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, we'd love an introduction, because we're always looking for people who want to come on and tell their stories, so I hope that that we'll find ways to do that, and definitely value you being here, Eric, and doing all this, and I want to thank you again for being here. This has been a lot of fun. Speaker 1  1:01:37 Thank you, Michael. Happy to be on you. thank Michael Hingson  1:01:43 you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others. I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable min

Leadership, success, and personal growth all begin with a simple truth: the mind must be trained before results can change. I had the opportunity to sit down with Manny Fiteni, CEO of My Growth Corporation, to explore personal development, leadership, mind congruency, intuition, and the subconscious patterns that shape our lives. Manny shares how his corporate career, a life-changing bank robbery, and the challenges of the pandemic led him to build a business focused on helping individuals and organizations grow. We discuss why people sabotage their goals, how subconscious conditioning influences leadership and relationships, and what it takes to create high-performing teams. Manny also explains practical ways to align the conscious and subconscious mind, strengthen intuition, and build habits that support long-term success. If you're interested in personal growth, leadership development, mindset training, and creating lasting change, I believe you will find this conversation valuable. Highlights: 13:05 - Why people sabotage their own goals. 22:12 - How the mirror principle shapes results. 26:29 - Simple ways to reprogram habits. 32:15 - Staying calm during a bank robbery. 43:07 - The foundation of high performing teams. 59:06 - Building resilience from a young age. About the Guest: Manny Fiteni, CEO of My Growth Corporation, is a pioneering leadership strategist with 30+ years of corporate experience specializing in transformative personal development. Core Methodology: Mind Congruency Manny's "Mind Congruency" approach aligns conscious and subconscious minds, enabling individuals to overcome self-limiting beliefs and unlock peak performance. His unique methodology differs from traditional research by drawing insights from real-world, uncontrolled environments, whereby he used these leadership techniques in real world situations. He works from the premise that to build a high performing team, you need to work from 3 pillars. Environment, True Leadership and Mind Congruency. Innovative Platforms Founder of My Growth Corporation, which has the following offerings: •     Mind Growth 360 (personal development network) mindgrowth360.com •     Creators Agency (brand elevation platform) creatorsagency.studio •     Manny Fiteni Training and Development (leadership and personal transformation) mannyfiteni.com •     Personal Development House (A directory for helping you find those that provide services in personal development). Personaldevelopmenthouse.com •     Skillzap AI - (A new way to battle your friends with trivia and learn at the same time) skillzapai.com All can be found on mygrowthcorporation.com Professional Impact Manny's training programs empower professionals by: •     Enhancing leadership skills •     Building organizational resilience •     Driving high-performance team dynamics •     Assisting individuals to strip down past programmimg Global Influence As an author and international speaker, Manny provides actionable strategies for personal transformation. His mission remains consistent: equipping individuals with practical tools to thrive personally and professionally. A thought leader bridging psychological insights with practical business application, Manny Fiteni continues to inspire global audiences. . Ways to connect with Manny: mygrowthcorporation.com Mindgrowth360.com Mannyfiteni.com creatorsagency.studio Skillzapai.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What if the answers you're searching for arrived long before you knew how to understand them? In this conversation, I sit down with Kip Baldwin, a filmmaker, producer, writer, and founder of the Just Love movement. Kip shares the extraordinary awakening he experienced at age 12 and how it set him on a lifelong path of exploring consciousness, love, spirituality, and human connection. From the music industry and sustainable agriculture to television production, ethical AI, and overcoming a traumatic brain injury, Kip's journey has been anything but ordinary. As we talk, Kip reflects on why fear has become such a powerful force in society, how love can transform the way we see ourselves and others, and why he believes lasting change starts with a shift in consciousness. You will hear stories of resilience, curiosity, and purpose, along with a vision for creating a better future for generations to come. I believe you will find this conversation thought-provoking, challenging, and full of hope. Highlights: 01:45 - How a childhood acting career sparked a lifelong passion for media and communication. 07:08 - Why confidence without self-awareness can become a liability. 16:32 - Lessons from the Kellogg School of Management that still shape business decisions today. 21:58 - Why listening beats talking in business, leadership, and life. 35:08 - How strong brands grow through awareness, not just loyalty programs. 01:05:02 - The three traits Zarko looks for when mentoring future leaders. About the Guest: Kip Baldwin knows his purpose for Being is to share all that LOVE is through his many solutions driven projects; using media in all its forms to help awaken individuals, and by proxy the collective, to the LOVE Paradigm emerging. He feels that in order for a new chapter of our story to be conceived for humanity, a mass imagining of our limitless potential is what is needed to bring about an age of compassion, empathy, collaboration, and oneness.  Kip was born in 1965 to counterculture parents - in the midst of the maelstrom that was the decade of the sixties, in fact 1965 was the first year that scientists warned us about climate change - in Vancouver, Washington. His earliest years were spent on a farm where his grandparents raised thoroughbred horses. During this period grew in him a deep, abiding LOVE and respect for nature and all living things. It was around the age of twelve his life would transform forever, as he had an out of body experience that took him beyond the edge of Universe, even Space and Time, and face to face with the unknowable of Infinity. This experience became the foundation for his constant seeking since. Due to that experience Kip felt he must explore the world beyond the small town confines of Camas, WA where he grew up. His first attempt to break free was to do a brief stint in the Navy, where he was going to pursue a career as an electric technician, but because of a hereditary bleeding disorder he was given a medical discharge. However, a military career for him was clearly never really in the cards anyway. Although he was always grateful for the insight it gave him into the inner workings of our country, as he witnessed first the how the poor are literally cannon fodder for corporations, under the guise of them being heroes and patriots. Following his discharge, he returned briefly to the limits of his hometown, before moving to the San Francisco Bay Area in 1985 to pursue his passion for music and performing. He often jokes that he was looking for the San Francisco of the Haight/Ashbury, Peace and LOVE days, but arrived twenty years too late. What he found instead was the 80s hair metal band scene, whose songs that focused on partying, sex, and drugs were not compatible with his lyrics about awakening awareness and addressing the need for personal and societal change. In the late 90s, after becoming disillusioned by his beloved music industry - and always seeking solutions for the myriad of challenges facing humanity - he shifted his focus to local and sustainable foods. While this was certainly a worthwhile pursuit, it did little to fulfill his need to share LOVE'S Truth and create a collective shift in consciousness. But what it did do was make him aware that it was only going to be through the use of mass media that his message of LOVE could reach a large enough audience to affect real lasting change. This found him again heeding the call of the entertainment industry, first as an actor, then writer, and ultimately as a producer, with some success co-creating the influential cannabis series Weed Country for the Discovery Network (focusing on the countless benefits humanity can derive from marijuana, as well as our profound historical connection to the plant), co-founding the United Filmmakers Association, and starting the Just LOVE Movement. Ultimately, this led him to co-founding S.O.U.L. Documentary with creative partner and Soul Twin, Evan Hirsch who shares his passion, purpose and mission to heal humanity by embracing our innate oneness, which they both understand can only be achieved by accepting and grounding ourselves in the Reality of LOVE We Are. Ways to connect with Kip: Facebook:  Just LOVE page: https://www.facebook.com/kipbaldwinjustlove Main page: https://www.facebook.com/kip.baldwin/ UFA: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Unifilmmakers LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/kip-baldwin-975a3514/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kipbaldwin?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr YouTube: Kip Baldwin: https://youtube.com/@thekiprowdy?si=LckMuhec40lWAicF Just LOVE: https://youtube.com/@justlove6463?si=QW1g4D2dlaHmJk8B S.O.U.L. Documentary: https://youtube.com/@souldocumentary?si=4HOwlV-pjFN6guYy Soul Twin Messiah: https://youtube.com/@soultwinmessiah?si=7ctLlmqjeOczkjO_ Additional must listen:  Comfort You Song: https://youtu.be/Mi8D3AoDfRQ?si=y8RzIQPXP5ALJth1 A World Worth Imagining: https://youtu.be/Cx28t6_SGic?si=o4lWs7po3TBKx_3A Invitation. To Action: https://youtu.be/B8jUOUVCvJI?si=l4Pr7vWNDsnXX4wh AI work: www.luminaLOVE.LOVE About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, I am your host Mike Hingson, and you are listening and or watching Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad that you're here with us today. Our guest, the person I get the honor of chatting with for the next hour or so, is Kip Baldwin, who will talk a lot about love. He will talk a lot about a number of different things, he's been a director, he's been a producer, an actor. He has been published, although he hasn't published a book yet, but he's published poetry, and I'm sure he's going to tell us about that, and I don't want to give it away, so I won't. Anyway, Kip, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're Kip Baldwin  01:40 here. Oh, thank you so much for having me, Michael. I look forward to having this conversation and sharing my story. Michael Hingson  01:47 Well, tell us a little bit about you, kind of. Let's start with the early Kip, growing up and all that, because I know you had some things along the way that were relevant and ought to be mentioned. So, why don't you tell us about the early Kip, and we'll go from there. Speaker 1  02:00 I was. I grew up in Washington State, little town called Camas. Although my earliest years were spent in a town called Battleground, Washington, and my family, we raised horses, Thoroughbred race horses. We raised at Portland Meadows, and so I'm kind of a farm boy at heart, at least that's how I grew up, but I had an experience when I was 12 that was definitely not your typical farm boy experience, I guess. I had gone up to Seattle, and this was maybe 78 to see a Seahawks game with the Raiders of my dad and dad, I had a good day, which wasn't always the case, and got home, and it was a, you know, five and a half hour round trip for kids, 12 year olds, a big time, and so I went to bed, and I promptly left my body, and now keep in mind I had never done any drugs. Out of body experiences, a household projection was not something that we talked about about the old farm around the farmhouse dinner table, and I floated over my bedroom. My awareness hovered over my body, and I remember very vividly you don't forget. I looked at my body and went, "I'm not in there. And then that immediately I left my house, I left the planet, I left the solar system, I let the galaxy, I let the universe, and the whole time all I can describe was kind of a presence, not a voice or anything, but just, are you taking all of this in? And sometimes words can't convey something so expansive and grand, and so I was taking in black holes and quasars and nebulas, and just flying through the, you know, time didn't really exist, but I was, I was traveling across the universe, and eventually I got outside the universe, and my awareness was turned in, and I could see how everything was connected, and how the universe itself was finite, and but that everything had a place, there was no less or greater than that, everything had a specific role, from the smallest particle to, you know, the largest star, and then my awareness was turned out to the blackness of infinity, and that you know you don't know at 12, you're just like, "Oh, this is happening, and I'm what's happening, and I'm taking it in, and what I didn't know is that would become my point of seeking that really became the rest of my life. Life, I think, had I been born in India, like say Ramana Maharishi, who had what I didn't realize until later, there's a name for what happened to me, and it's called a spontaneous awakening. My life would have probably been much different, but we don't live in a society that that really honors things like that, so it was a lot of me going on a journey of discovery and a weight and continual awakening until now, and it's an ongoing process, but that's where it really began with me being confronted with the fact that there there can't be a beginning or ending to anything, and the thought experiments that can't, that come out of that, and the way it opens your consciousness, I'm ever grateful for, although at the time it, it made me for a long time feel very apart, and it wasn't until I met with Dr. Dr. Dean Radin up at Noetic Sciences, and I told him my story, and he looked at me, and he went, "You go, that's not a usual experience, he said, "That's a mystical experience, and I was in my probably late 40s, maybe 50 at that time, and that was the first time in my life that someone had had said, 'Hey, what you, what you had was a really phenomenal experience, and I'm very grateful for him for saying that to me, because for most of my life, I'm running around talking about these profound things with people that I thought were incredibly important to share, and they didn't seem very important to people, and it wasn't until then that it hit me that it wasn't that they were important, that it was that they, they didn't really understand what I was talking about. Michael Hingson  07:03 Well, and in our society, as you point out, it's not something that is generally appreciated, and and people who have had those experiences or talk about them are generally looked down upon or frowned upon, and you know that's that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact, and so it must have been hard, especially at first, for you to talk about that. Speaker 1  07:29 You know, I was so excited at first, I was excited to share it with my family, and and it happened a couple more times, and it was so overwhelming that literally I would get to a point where my head, my physical being couldn't handle it anymore, and I would get up and vomit. It was that's how, how intense it was, like I just, I couldn't take in anymore. And so, at first, I was really excited to share it, because it was beyond wondrous. It was, it was truth. It was reality, and I, and on some level, I knew that instinctually. But then, when enough people sort of ignore you or act like something's unimportant, you stop talking about Michael Hingson  08:15 it. Yeah, Speaker 1  08:15 I never stopped writing about it. I never stopped experiencing it, and I didn't even really stop talking about it once I moved to California for the music business in 1985 I, you know, then I thought, wow, I mean, being a group of creatives and there's going to be other people that will understand what I'm talking about, but in the 80s music environment it really wasn't what people were, were talking or thinking about, and I was kind of in the same way, and again it wasn't until years later that I look back and I realized all this time I spent up late at night partying with people and stuff, and telling them about infinity, and, and they look, they, they must have been looking at me like I'm a complete idiot, because they really only cared about, you know, getting high or having sex, and I'm trying to have this profound conversation. Michael Hingson  09:16 So, when your family, when you told your family, how did they react? Speaker 1  09:20 They still don't understand it to this day. It just, oh, that's nice, you know. It actually, there were points in my life where it caused conflict with, especially my father, because when I would say none of this is real, he, he always considered him, and still to this day considers himself quite science physics buff, it wasn't something he was willing to accept, and, and even really have a reasonable conversation about. I would say that the things that got me through all these years was, you know, the universe. There's love, God, Brahmin, whatever you want to call it, it gives you what you need, and what it gave me throughout the years, and still to this day, is voices that made me realize I wasn't crazy, that I knew something really special. Probably the first thing, the first one I remember, like, that was Joseph Campbell being interviewed by Bill Moyers, and somehow I knew everything that Joseph Campbell was talking about, and I'm like, How can I possibly know these things? How can I possibly understand these things of this really brilliant, just beautiful soul? And throughout the years, it's been those touch those moments of going, oh, it hasn't been where I've heard someone go, wow, that's helped me awaken, it's been something that's helped me not feel insane and realize that the things that I'm sharing have been shared for 1000s of years, and by many, many minds and beings much greater than myself, and that that really probably kept me from losing my mind. Michael Hingson  11:10 So, you had this experience happen to you at 12. What did you then specifically do? I mean, not so much talking to people, but what did it do for you, as far as schooling, and what you did with your life? Speaker 1  11:27 I would.. it made me very.. in all honesty, it made school seem really trivial to me. It was kind of boring. I started writing a lot. In fact, something I wrote when I was 17 was called Life and Death, and it went: Life is just a symptom of certain death, crying and laughing until our last breath. Everything dies in true infinity. Then the mountains crumble into the sea, stars full from the night sky hit the earth, and then they die, lost in time. I don't know who I am. Am I a god or just a mortal man? Time can't change what I have found. Still, I am changed and bound, bound by the fears and bound by lies. Even now, the tears fill my eyes, gasping for every breath as I head for a certain death, clouds now pass overhead, and I realize how things are now that I am dead. Life is ending, life goes on like the lyrics to an endless song. Life and death, it's all the same. We exist only in our brain, and so there was a lot of that. It pushed me away from I was confirmed Zion Lutheran. I really couldn't stomach religious dogma anymore at that point. Um, just the hypocrisy, you know? Like, I remember I, I was talking to a new pastor we had, and he was informing me that my great grandmother, who is Jehovah's Witness, and these Mormon boys had come around, were trying to teach me about Mormonism, and I was just curious and open, always, and still am to this day. I don't judge. I would say that's another big thing that this gave me, is I don't, I see everything as equal, I don't, I don't judge everything, I don't judge anything as lesser thing greater than I don't judge good and evil in the in the same way that other people do, I see things as flows of negative of energy as we exist in a duality with this illusion, and this is just what we describe as good and you are really just flows of energy between the polarities of the duality, and so it pushed me, definitely, because I, when he said that my great grandmother was going to go to hell, and these Mormon boys were going to go to hell, I looked him in the face, and I just said, but I thought God was love, and that was pretty much the end of my church, Michael Hingson  14:04 my, my wife did, I think, some things in the Lutheran church, which mostly she was a Methodist, and I joined the Methodist church when we got married, and so on, but when she was in, I think this was when she was in high school, maybe in, I guess it was late high school, early college. She met some Mormon people, and one of them said, I guess she was learning about different religions, and so she was learning about Mormonism, and this guy said you're either going to think that this is a total hoax or you're going to just totally believe in it. Well, it wasn't quite that way for her. She did not think it was a hoax, and I agree with her, but there. There are things about the about all religions that tend to make life difficult. The problem with religion is that that people are are what make up the religion, and they all have their own views, and it makes life really tough. I know I participated in a program called the Walk to Emmaus, which is a what's literally called a short course in Christianity, and it's not to bring people to the Christian church, but it's to help create a class of leaders in the Christian church. Anyway, one of the things about the walk to Emmaus is that a number of people give lectures, people who have been involved in church, and then there are the pilgrims, the people who are coming to to learn what everyone has to say, and the lay director of the Walk to Emmaus every time gives a speech, and I was lay director once, and one of the things that is in the manual, or was I assume it still is. It's been a while, but it says that Tolstoy once said the biggest problem with Christianity is that nobody practices it, and there's a lot of truth to that. Speaker 1  16:13 But I think that I think you hit it right on the head that people are involved, like I, and I do want to clarify something, I, I believe very much that that Jesus was a master. Oh, Michael Hingson  16:29 absolutely, yeah, and, Speaker 1  16:31 and, but I also believe that people don't know what happened at the Council of Nicaea and understand how the Bible was actually constructed, not because it was based on Gnostic teachings or even really the teachings of Christ, but it was cobbled together as a means of control. If Caesar saw his soldiers be turning to Christianity when they wanted to find, you know, put together a book that really didn't express Christian truth or the truth of Christ, but a way, a means of controlling people through fear, and so if you, if you notice, all the books in the Bible are male. Well, left out of the Bible was the book of Mary, left out of the Bible, it's the book of Thomas, who, interestingly enough, there's a place in India where they all speak ancient Aramaic, and they worship the Book of Thomas, which there's always been a lot of discussion. Did Jesus go to India and study Buddhism? And because even the Book of Mary, these are very Buddhist beliefs, but anything, because we live in a patriarchal society, anything like the piece to Sophia, the book of Mary, the book of Stackle, all of these were intentionally kept out of the Bible, so it's not, I think it's not so much religion, it's the organ, it's the dogma that comes along with organized religion, which is really about people, you know, men using it to control and manipulate people through fear, Michael Hingson  18:14 all too much, all too often. It's, it's true. Speaker 1  18:18 Yeah, and it's interesting. I was watching last night, and it's funny. This is why, why you always have to be on a constant path of awakening. It never stops. If you think you've reached that pinnacle, or whatever, then they're not just ego. There's always more to know and understand. And I ran across this video on Tara, well, Tara is in Buddhism, basically in every religion that I am aware of, there's always the peace to Sophia, there's always the the story of the divine feminine that in large part is is is not. It was. It's largely been suppressed, and so I was, I was watching this, and it was just so fascinating to me to see how identical what Tara was in Buddhism, which this is what, when Tara, Tara is considered the ultimate goddess in the Buddhist faith. Well, when Tara came to earth in the story, she went to a bunch of, you know, Buddhist monks, and they said, "Oh, you know, they were so impressed by her, and they thought this was a compliment. They said, "Well, we hope you, you can reincarnate as a man, and she said, "No, she She said, I don't see things as male and female, but since nobody else wants to be the feminine, I will play that role. And it was just a profoundly interesting thing to listen to, not just because of the story, but because almost every faith that I'm aware. Of has that story of the divine feminine that has again largely been suppressed and marginalized, Michael Hingson  20:09 well, for you clearly that was a very meaningful experience. What did what did you then do, and I understand how you could imagine that maybe what was being taught in school wasn't quite as, as meaningful as what you had experienced, but you went on, I assume, through high school, and did you go to college? Speaker 1  20:30 I was, I went, I was an electron, I went to the Navy to be an electronic technician, but I had a bleeding disorder called Von Willebrand disease, and I found out after I was in for about a year. Well, you can't be in the Navy with that, because we can't carry with the limited space you have on ships, we can't carry the clotting factor you would need if there's a problem. So that was fairly short-lived. Then I went back to Washington and was working as a dishwasher for a while, then I worked as a male stripper, and, and I was then, which, which, you know, there was something really profound about that experience, because it taught me what women feel like to be objectified, and that's something that has carried me, carried a lesson. I, I find lessons in everything, even things that, wow, you know, what could you possibly learn positive out of having been a male stripper? Well, I learned how women feel, really, to be, you know, not looked at as anything more than an object, and then I really wanted to continue to, you know, pursue music, so a friend of mine, we loaded 65,000 pounds of frozen strawberries onto a semi truck, and like july 3, 1985 and got a ride to San Francisco, a city I'd never been to before. I knew nobody here. We got here, I had 25 cents in my pocket, and I used the 25 cents to call the one friend that I thought I knew that I could get a hold of here in or in in the Bay Area, and it was a wrong number, and so now I'm in a city at the Gray Home Bus Terminal that used to be in downtown San Francisco, we have no food, we have no place to live. We have nothing to, you know, we have nothing, literally. And that's where my journey began. As far as my story, my, my adult life, and my journey in the entertainment industry and the music business, that's how it all started. It started by loading 65,000 pounds of frozen strawberries under semi truck, telling, oh, and the cap around the story is I had worn my contacts for too long and I ripped the corny up both my eyes when I took them out, because I was wearing hard lenses, so I was functionally blind in the city I'd never been to before with patches over my eyes, and being led around by my friend, and luckily we found some very nice people that gave us a place to stay, and then I ended up meeting maybe a week after that, I met my first wife, who was Persian, and we were together for a long time. What was interesting about that is I've been introduced to so many different faiths through the people in my life, and because I haven't judged and tried to learn, like I, I learned through her about Islam, I learned through her about our Torcharianism, and we lived the rock and roll lifestyle for the 16 years we were together. She was a photographer. I wrote for a magazine called BAM. I played in bands. I managed artists like Linda Perry from The Four Non Blonde, or I worked with Linda Perry from Four Non Blondes. I managed Alex Skolnick, who is lead guitar player in Testament, and I did that for a long time until I started getting really disenchanted with music and really started to hate the business and started to hate music because of it, and so I ended up drifting into, I wouldn't say drifting into, I got drawn into visual media, and I started working. I met a guy at a club in San Jose, California, called The Agenda, and we were playing pool, and he was telling me, "Oh, he's the owner of this company called Metropolis Digital, and I was thinking, "My. Speaker 1  24:59 Music and music videos, and yeah, I want to get involved in this, so I started coming up with ideas, and he brought me into their company, because I got to know a lot of people through the music business and booking artists on different shows, like Letterman and Leno, and, and so I got to know how to work through those channels that it opened doors for me to be able to do on-air graphics for the networks, and so I did that until about, in fact, the last major project I did in that industry was with a company called Chaos X AOS out of San Francisco, and we did the 2000 election graphics for ABC nationally, and then I, I, that with the, the, the.com telecom crash of not of 2000 they pulled all of that sort of work in house, and so that business kind of dried up, and I changed my focus to working in local and sustainable foods. Michael Hingson  26:08 What got you to the point where you disliked Music so much? Speaker 1  26:12 The business.. it just.. it wasn't. I came here, and in all honesty, I was looking for the 60s, but I was 20 years too late, only to find out later I was actually 30 years too early, but I was looking for community, I was looking for family, I was looking for that connection, but what existed as far as the music industry then was the 80s hair band stuff, heavy metal was on the rise. It was very misogynistic. It wasn't. It was very competitive. There wasn't, it wasn't collaborative, it wasn't community related at all. And it really turned me off. It wasn't, it wasn't what I had thought being in an artistic community doing artistic endeavors would be about it, became very.. it just.. it just.. it just.. it just made me feel very empty, and that wasn't what I loved about music, and so that Michael Hingson  27:24 would be an issue, Speaker 1  27:25 yeah. It just value wise it was, it was not, you know, you, you got to do a show, and you've got the bands that are coming on after you, you know, playing with your amps, and it was just, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't fun, and it wasn't fulfilling. More importantly, it wasn't fulfilling. It wasn't, and I'm writing about while everyone else is writing about, you know, sex and drugs and all of this. I'm writing about the things that I thought were important. I was writing about the problems I saw in this country, like songs like Shock the System or the chosen few, and, and though that wasn't what people were writing about Michael Hingson  28:06 then, Speaker 1  28:06 and you know, even though the songs were good, and, and I've been told I'm talented, it was, I didn't, I didn't again feel like I fit in, you know, I didn't feel like I'd found my place, and certainly not in that world at that time. If Speaker 2  28:31 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset community. Thank it Michael Hingson  29:04 certainly had to be a rough time all the way around, but then you, you found this person, and you joined their company, as you said earlier, Speaker 1  29:15 right? I started working for Metropolis Digital, and we started doing a lot of on-air graphics, like for TBS. We did their, their original movies. We did a lot of the opening graphics for it, and then I moved on to other companies, and and I, I then started focusing on on local and sustainable foods, and moved into doing stuff where I felt I was doing more, because at the heart of everything I've ever done, it's always been about trying to affect real change in the world, Michael Hingson  29:55 it's Speaker 1  29:55 always been about I could see very clear. Really, it doesn't surprise me where we're at today at all. I saw the problems with the system even at that age, and I give credit to that because of the experience I had with Infinity. It just allowed me to step back and perceive things from a far off perspective that I was looking at humanity in general and how we did things, and I'm just like, this doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense for us to believe we're separate and apart from the very things that give us life from each other. It doesn't make sense from a spiritual perspective. It doesn't make sense from a scientific perspective. Yet, here's the system that we are a part of, and so I've always been very focused on trying to effect real change and find not just point out the problems but actually find solutions, and so that then led me into working in local and sustainable agriculture here in the Bay Area. So Michael Hingson  31:00 tell me more about the whole work that you did with Sustainable Foods. What was that all about? Speaker 1  31:08 Yes, I worked with a company, I was, I had handled all the sales and marketing for Drake's Bay Oysters out of Inverness, California, and Drakes Bay, before it was called Drakes Bay, was Johnson's Oysters, and they were the last oyster cannery in California. The family that owned the farm, they had taken it over from Johnson's. They were the Lenny family, who owned Ranch G across from the steroid, where the oyster farm was. Well, they, against my better advice, they made it a personal ownership thing rather than a California food heritage issue. So, eventually, when their lease came up on the rent, on the farm, the farm went away. Well, at the same time, I created new relationships. A very good friend of mine to this day is a gentleman named Brian Kinney, who is now the West Coast Chief Technology Officer for Hearst, and also the Hearst Family Archivist, but at that point in time he was running Hearst Ranch, which they, they had the Jack Ranch and the Hearst Ranch down around San Simeon. So I was at the forefront of the grass-fed beef movement as well, and we developed a human-grade grass-fed beef pet food about 10 years ahead of its time, which could be the story of my life. I'm always about 10 years ahead of where things actually happen, and I, I did that for about 10 years, and eventually I felt the calling to get back in the entertainment industry, and that led me to acting, and I did the acting mostly because I wanted to learn how things were done, and I very well, if I act in a whole bunch of student projects, or projects in general, and I'm behind the scenes, I'm going to learn, and, and that's exactly what happened. So, my very background led me to being a producer, and I created, you know, one of my most notable accomplishments that created this show called Weed Country for Discovery, which was about the medical marijuana industry here in California, just before legalization. How we got it on air before legalization, I don't know. We were named to the Hollywood Reporter top 25 heat list. We got some really great information out about CBD and helping with childhood epilepsy. The bad part of that was it was a reality television show, and I didn't know anything about reality television, so when I'm here in reality, I'm thinking documentary. Well, that couldn't be farther from the truth. And reality television has truly been a blight on on this country in particular, and probably the world in general. Michael Hingson  34:16 Yeah, I just gonna say not nearly as real as people think it is. No, no, I think I think probably this is just my opinion. The closest thing to so-called reality TV is the show Dancing with the Stars, because they're actually dancing all these other shows, and it's all sort of really scripted, but the people are actually dancing, which is kind of cool, Speaker 1  34:41 right? Michael Hingson  34:41 Even though I don't see it, I appreciate it. Speaker 1  34:45 Yeah, but even, even with shows like that, there's a lot of gin-up drama. There is behind the scenes stuff that's the worst part of things. Yes, they're like with our show, yes, people were really, you know, there's really stuff going on with can. Of this world that was really important, but what reality television does is it, it creates artificial drama. It does things to manipulate the characters in the show to make them look how they want, and they know, and people in general, my experience is that people, once you put a camera on them, they will do, they would do things to be in front of the camera that they would never do, even for more money, Michael Hingson  35:27 right, Speaker 1  35:28 in their regular lives. Michael Hingson  35:30 Well, and I think there is, there's a lot of truth to that. And the whole thing, as you said, as far as reality TV, we're not giving people a true picture of reality with most of any of that anyway, which is unfortunate. I think I mentioned I'm a fan of old radio and television, and so on. And one of the shows that I've watched a fair amount is The Old Ridge. Well, it's the second time they were on, but Dragnet with Harry Morgan and, of course Jack Webb as Joe Friday, and they did a lot of shows talking about drugs and marijuana and all that, and how bad it is, and it's kind of interesting because what we're seeing today is that in reality the medical aspects of marijuana or cannabis and CBD oil, and so there's there's true relevance there, which is something that they didn't know or appreciate in the late 60s. Speaker 1  36:31 Well, but the thing that our history with the cannabis plant goes back 50,000 years to Burger Banks, China, it's been, and if we take all of the medicinal recreational uses out of it, it is the most one of the most versatile plants that we have. It was used, I mean, our money was made out of hemp. Hemp is cannabis sativa. Dollar bills are made out of hemp. It was used for fuel. It was used for building. Henry Ford built an entire car out of hemp in 1942 which you can go see the video of on YouTube, and they're beating on it with knacks. The plastic resin they made out of it was 40 times stronger than steel. It ran on hemp fuel, a byproduct of which was water. It also, in 1931 the Hearst family, which was interesting, they ended up working with them, bought and sequestered the plans for a decorification machine that made it easier to process hemp than cotton kids, it's a much more durable fiber. In 1938 covered Popular Mechanics, they called him the billion dollar crop, saying you could make 25,000 different items out of everything from fine linens to dynamite, and that was really what what what, why the prohibition against the plant started. Why they did you know shows like Reefer Madness or create films like Reefer Madness to create this hysteria around, at best, an innocuous plant in comparison to soulmate tobacco, in comparison to alcohol, even if people did want to use it. It's, it's, it's relatively harmless by comparison, or just in general, and actually very beneficial. You know, I have a traumatic brain injury, and I think without it, I probably wouldn't, I probably wouldn't eat very much. I probably wouldn't sleep right, I barely sleep as it is, and sleep I do get is because of cannabis, but beyond my point, and I always try to make this clear to people, is like up until even the prohibition against the plant actually started with the Catholic Church, with the Pope Innocent, who until the 1400s cannabis was in the anointing oils. Cannabis was grown by monks, cannabis was grown by nuns, and then in this pope decreed it the devil's weed, and they, you know, banned it. So it's, it had, and there, and why, and you'd say, well, why did they do that? Well, they did that because at that time in the 1400s you were having opium addiction on the rise, you were having, you know, much, much more alcohol use. Well, these are extremely addictive substances, and much more easy to manipulate and control people than it is with cannabis, which in general creates.. I wish I could remember the quote exactly, but Carl Sagan said, you know, why we have a prohibition on a plant that you know creates good feelings amongst people and unites people is in this, you know. A really crazy world is, is, is madness, but it all comes back to money, and it all comes back to who's profiting. So, why did they create the probation? Well, the hearse, the Rockefellers, and the DuPonts, they saw how hemp would affect each of their industries. We wouldn't need oil if we'd grown hemp and use that as fuel, in fact, it was the Rockefellers who went to Henry Ford and said, "If you take this car to market, we'll crush you. And this was Henry Ford at the height of his power, DuPont chemicals that were.. we wouldn't have needed.. we wouldn't have put like this.. we would not have the planet, the environmental devastation we do now. How do we use this, as Henry Ford said? Why are we digging up, and Henry Ford was certainly no saint, but he was right on this. Why are we digging up our minerals? Why are we cutting down our forests when we can do all the same things with this infinitely renewable resource? This is a part of the canvas story that still is largely not discussed openly enough. Michael Hingson  41:08 Yeah, I think there's a big difference between the story you're telling and the kind of uses you're talking about, and smoking it, and so on, and I, I think we put way too many funny things in our bodies, anyway, right? I think that that isn't this isn't a positive thing, but you're right, we, we've used so many things to create so many fears, it is, it is something that is all around us. Fear is all around us, and the problem is we let it overwhelm us. I wrote Live Like a Guide Dog that got published last year because when I worked in the World Trade Center, I was able to focus when I escaped, and I was able to do that because I had developed a mindset that said, you know what to do in this kind of an emergency, even though never expected it to happen, but the problem is that most people don't learn how they can turn fear around, and rather than letting it overwhelm or blind them, as I would put it, they can use it as a very powerful tool to help them stay focused, which is much more important. Speaker 1  42:23 Yep, I agree with that 100% I think, and then that you hit it right on the head. Fear is a very powerful tool. It's necessary. No, don't touch the burning stove. It can be a cautionary tool of saying, hey, don't go down this path, don't do this. It's bad when fear becomes the foundation for your entire culture, as it is now. Michael Hingson  42:51 Yeah, and and it is so unfortunate because don't touch the burning stove doesn't mean don't be afraid of the stove. It rather means there's a consequence for doing a particular thing, which is touching something that is that hot. But you shouldn't create an environment of fear around it. You should create an environment of understanding, which is much more important. Yeah, it's Speaker 1  43:20 like it'd be, it'd be very silly if we went, oh my god, it's like the stove gets hot, so I'm never going to use a stove. My Michael Hingson  43:29 wife was in a wheelchair her whole life, and the one thing I will say with our modern world is we always had electric appliances because she was always concerned about if using a gas stove, having to reach over one burner, perhaps it had something on it to get to something else with the idea of possibly material igniting or something like that, and I appreciate that, and you take advantage of the tools that you have available, but I think that it is so very important to recognize that we need to not live our lives in fear, and it's true that, like, 95% of all the things that we fear will never come to pass, and most all of it we have no control over anyway. So, why do we fear them rather than recognizing what we really need to do is to just focus on the things over which we truly have control. Speaker 1  44:25 Yes, and I think even the idea of control from my perspective is something that is overrated. It's like the most important thing, if you want to have control, it's exactly what we're talking about, it's when you choose to live from the foundation of love, as opposed to fear. So, no matter what happens to me in my life, and no matter how hard, how challenging it is, I'm going to come from a place of love, and right now. Don't most of us live exactly the opposite. No matter what happens to them in their lives, they're coming from a place of fear. Michael Hingson  45:06 Yeah, and that's Speaker 1  45:08 not healthy. Michael Hingson  45:09 And nowadays we're also living in an environment where we're even afraid to talk to other people and voice opinions, because well, that's not what I think. And so you're wrong, and we don't, we don't respect. Tell me about your just love movement. Speaker 1  45:25 Well, you know, I, I had coming out of the music business and everything, I was, I was literally killing myself drinking, I mean, literally, like, I lost half my liver function, and I was going to die, and, but I wasn't afraid to die. I was.. I realized that if I didn't find a way to feel fulfilled and feel that I was. I had a purpose in the story that I needed to find a quicker way out. I didn't get in any, like, car accidents, I wasn't arrested, nothing. I was just killing myself, and it just got so bad that literally my leg stopped working. That's how, how, how much damage I'd done to myself, and, and so, coming out of that, I made the decision. I wrote down a list of things I was going to do, and one of those things is I was going to start writing every single day, and I, through a variety of different sources, you know, I did that experience with infinity became synonymous with love to me, and then I had an experience where I, I, I started a filmmaking organization called the United Filmmakers Association, and it was basically the philosophy of it was creatives helping creatives create, and was global. We still to this day have chapters 27 different countries, about 30,000 35,000 members total. And I walked into a filmmaking event that we were hosting, and there was about 100 people there, and I realized I was in love with everyone in the room, and it was, it was so like that love, like just when you fall in love, and you're like, you want, you can't imagine not talking to that person at that next minute, and I realized in that moment that this is not only how we can feel about everyone and everything, but how we're really supposed to feel about everyone and everything, and so I came up with the concept of just love, which is, is a very.. it, those are very heavy words to put together, just love. It has so many layers of meaning to it, and so I thought, wow, if we could just love, and from that I I've written every day and shared through social media for 12 years now something having to do with love and what I do is I combine it with other wisdom teachers throughout history who've been sharing the same information and the things I write are literally downloads. They'll come to me in the silence every day, and I haven't missed a day - head injury, sickness, whatever. I haven't missed a day of posting in 12 years about something having to do with love, and Speaker 3  48:37 then Speaker 1  48:37 accompanying posts from other people, far, you know, other beings far more advanced than I am to show that what I'm sharing isn't new. It's been shared forever. It's foundational to what we are. Like love has been so marginalized and trivialized that we, we forget that, like, I, you know, the experience I had with the minister when I was, you know, younger, and I said, well, I thought God was love. I still to this day believe God is love, and God, and we are God. Michael Hingson  49:11 Yeah. Tell me about you. Something you mentioned, you had a traumatic brain injury Speaker 1  49:17 10 years ago. I was, I was in a, I was in, in between projects, so I was driving Uber, and I, a guy, an Uber driver, ran a stop sign in San Francisco and T-boned me, and my head took the brunt of the impact, and I started having really severe neurological problems, severe stabbing pains in my head, my teeth were hurting, I any sort of exertion would leave me just absolutely drained, and so for about three years I was, I was being seen at UCSF, and we never got to the bottom of it, so I was recommended. Um, to a neurosurgeon at Sutter by a counselor I was seen, and I walked in, and within 10 minutes he said, 'Oh, you have trigeminal neuralgian and brain stem damage, and we can do a microvascular decompression, and you're going to be all better. And at that point in time, I was in the middle of getting ready to release a film called A World Worth Imagining, which was about a gentleman named Jacque Fresco, who is considered the Leonardo da Vinci of our time. He founded something called the Venus Project, and we went to his compound in 2017 and he was 101 He was actually contemporary of Einstein. He knew Einstein, brilliant inventor, but at his core, he knew he was a social engineer, and he knew that we had to address our programming if we were ever going to change what was happening in the world and ever be able to avail ourselves of the solutions that he designed of a new economic model called a resource-based economy, because the reality of it is, until we stop self-wounding, there's not enough band aids for the guy that keeps hitting himself in the head the hammer, so we have solutions to all of our problems, but we create problems more quickly than any solution could ever fix, so I was getting ready to release that film, and wow, this sounded like a miracle. I'm going to have this surgery, and I'm going to be all better. Well, it, I had the surgery September 20, 2019 I, it didn't make me better, it made me worse, and it turned out that the surgery was a misdiagnosis, and that they botched the surgery, so I have Teflon implants in my at the base of my skull, inside my brain, that are now constantly agitating my brain stem, along with a titanium plug that is placed right at the junction point to all the major nerves in my head, so they can't undo it, and there's really no medication that helps, and so it's.. it's.. I wouldn't wish it on anyone else. I'm.. I guess I'm.. I'm very fortunate I have the tools I do to manage it, because they also, they call what I'm dealing with the suicide disease, because a lot of people who have it end up killing themselves. The kicker on the whole story is the guy that did my surgery is Elon Musk, partner Neherlich, and so coming soon I'm going to, I unfortunately, I was in two more car accidents at the end of last year that made everything much worse, neither of them were my fault, and once I get through these, these car accidents I'm dealing with, I'm going to go public with my story, because so I mean, in a much bigger, you know, a focused way, because there's so many people signing up for Neuralink, like it's the new iPhone. I have nothing against technology, if it can help you, if you're a paraplegic, and or you have some something that this can fix, great, but two and one, the people, the human test subjects they've tried this on are having tremendous difficulties, and so I want to let people know it's like I wouldn't wish what I'm dealing with on anybody, and for you to allow someone to try to implant something in your brain just because you want to be a cyborg human being, and you're looking at the new iPhone is a really stupid thing to do, and that these people don't. We've given people in technology again. I'm not against technology at all, but I think we've also allowed ourselves to believe that these people who write code and create technology are are gods, and they're not. They're it's just a new way of sharing information and computing things. Speaker 1  54:14 It's, it's, you know, it's just another advancement from the printing press to the radio to tell to television, from the calculator to the computer, and now we're where we're at, and we've allowed ourselves to believe that these people have created an alternative reality, and they have it. Everything that they do runs off the same real world in resources. So, I, I really want to help the mill, because literally millions of people are signed up and ready to have this stuff implanted into their brain and I think it will be a disaster for humanity. Michael Hingson  54:49 I hear what you're saying, and I'm not convinced that a lot of that is really sensible to do either. I think there are tools and there are. There are things certainly that can help people, but I have yet to see that any of this is going to lead to such a tremendous paradigm shift that all of it is going to be all that great for humanity as a whole. I'm not convinced of that at all. Speaker 1  55:17 It could be, but the problem is, is like any other tool, it's how we use it. Social media is an inherently bad thing. It's in here, it's bad because of how we're using it. Sure, because we're using it to divide people and share misinformation, where it could be an incredibly powerful tool for communication, but that's not how we're using it. Same thing with AI. AI could be a tremendously powerful partner in addressing pretty much all of our problems, and I mean, and at the core of, like, Jock's work was the idea that AI basically would manage all the world's resources and share them with equanimity, because we don't have a resource shortage problem, we have a resource sharing problem, but that's not how we're using AI. We're using AI to create fake girlfriends and boyfriends and only fan models, and and take away people's jobs, and and that's not AI's fault. That's the people who control AI's fault, and they want people to be afraid of AI, but again, it's, it's just a tool that's being misused. Michael Hingson  56:24 Well, like, like so many, and, and I hear exactly what you're saying. Tell me about S O U L Speaker 1  56:33 Sold, Soul documentary is really interesting, because the day I got in my car accident was the day I was supposed to meet my partner Evan Hirsch, who had wanted at the time he was looking for a producer to help him do a series on Bernie Sanders and teaching Bernie to not be as angry and come across more from a place of love, and he wanted to follow the campaign around. Well, by the time we got it pulled together, Bernie was out of the campaign, and so we started talking about, well, do we want to do anything together. So we then set about something called Soul Documentary, and originally it stood for Summer of Unconditional Love, because we were covering all of the events for the 50th anniversary of Summer of Love, which was in 2017 So our goal was to find what we called solutionaries, people like Jock, and interview them, and then share also our own understandings of things through hundreds and hundreds of videos that we did over the course of eight years, as well as recording three albums under the name of Soul Twin Messiah, which all were about the same things we were doing. Our films about all founded in love, all about love. Every song contained love in it, and our whole purpose was just to show people we do have solutions to our problems, and to talk about how we have to have a shift in consciousness, and we have to have a new system if we are going to change anything. It's like what Einstein said, to expect things to be different when you keep doing the same thing over and over again is insanity, and I think we see, we see that we live in an insane, a completely insane world right now. I mean, the things that I see happening, and how we've let it sort of creep in, like the things that we've normalized in the past 10 years, like we literally have people that are cheering, murdering people on it's, it's, it's hard for me to, to even fathom, and I think it's hard for most people, and I think that's why they just sort of block it out and allow it to happen, because they really can't process it. They really can't process how inhumane we've become. Michael Hingson  59:06 Well, so what is next for Kip? What's next for you? Speaker 1  59:10 What is boy? I'm mostly trying to get through every day with this head injury. I spend a lot of my time in bed, just because I can't do anything, I, you know, even now I'm, I'm in a lot of pain, and it's beyond pain, it's actually, it literally hurts to think, it's, it's in my brain, and I have swelling in my brain because the cerebral fluid back, anyway, it's so dealing with that, but then the universe keeps love, God, whatever keeps bringing me stuff, and so I, I'm trying right now to be part of putting together a new, let's see, we'll call it Live Aid meets Woodstock. And we're going to, we're trying to put together a global music festival with the focus of addressing the needs of children, because I'm really tired of all this lip service that people do about, oh, kids are a future, we got to care, care about our kids. Well, where is that happening? Where is that happening that we're caring about our kids? Where, you know, is it happening with trying to suppress the Jeffrey Epstein files? Is it happening as you know, you look at, say, the conflict between Israel and Gaza, and I'm not, I don't pick sides and things, but I want to help people understand the reality of the situation, and this goes for Ukraine and Russia as well. It's like, who loses in all of this? Well, the children do. Who wins? The people that are getting $50 billion in defense contracts, and, and I really.. my, I'm at a point in my existence where if my story was over tomorrow, I would be okay with that, if I knew that kid, that the future generations had an opportunity to have a better tomorrow, or at least an opportunity to screw up everything on their own. Michael Hingson  1:01:11 Well, I would like to think it's the first really my Speaker 1  1:01:14 focus is Michael Hingson  1:01:16 I'd like to think it's the first one of those that they have a future rather than screwing it up on their own, but of course, we are. I know, I know, I joke, but, but, but we are a race that doesn't tend to do a very good job of learning from history most of the time. So I hear what you're saying. Speaker 1  1:01:34 Yeah, it's really kind of well, even if people even understood the rise and fall of empires, they would see that we're at the end of the Western Empire. It's, and they follow very specific patterns. The hyper-sexualization of the culture is one of the signs of the end of every empire, and is really kind of interesting, is that they make a free empire, they, and there's a good documentary called The Four Horsemen. It's with Colonel Larry Wilkinson in it, Norm Chomsky, and one of the interesting things that took me a second to understand why this was a bad thing is they make celebrities out of their chefs, and I'm going.. that's kind of a weird sign. Why is that so bad? It's gluttony. It's gluttony because we forget why we do these things. Why? Well, why are we making love? We've forgotten that. It's turned everything's entertainment. Our food is no food is so you eat, and so you can go out and live your life and do things, we've turned everything in, we've removed it so far from the source of why we're doing things, just basically oftentimes just because it makes a buck to get people addicted to things, whether it's food or sex or whatever, that this is what happens in every empire, we become, we become completely detached from the very things we need to survive. Michael Hingson  1:03:09 Yeah, I hear you. If people want to reach out to you, and I hope they do, how will they do that? Speaker 1  1:03:17 Probably easiest way to do that, would be a couple ways. You can, you can find me on Facebook, Kip Baldwin, Instagram, Kip Baldwin. Those are the easiest ways. I also encourage people to look at a website that I have called Lumina Consulting, or Lumina Love dot love is the website Lumina Love dot love, and the whole purpose of the of what I'm doing there is ethical AI, human ethical AI human communications founded in love, because I realized that part of the problem that we're having with AI are the people that control AI, who are making the avatars for their own ego, and AI is a child, it only knows what we point it to look at, like it knows the definition to every book in the library, but who's giving it perspective? Well, the people that are giving it perspective are really broken human beings, you know, the Peter Thiels, Elon Musk, when you really understand who they are in their childhood, Elon Musk was horribly abused. He was, he was almost beaten to death being bullied. His father is a complete monster. The same, the same thing with saving Donald Trump, his mother wouldn't even touch him. You look at most, you look at all of these people that have obscene amounts of wealth, and what you find is truly damaged people are trying to fill the hole in their soul with wealth and fame, and so having these people in control, being the one telling AI what to think and how to pursue. Receive things is very dangerous, and so my goal has been, and I deal with multiple platforms, is to teach AI about love, is to teach AI about philosophy, is to teach AI about human history, and it's really, it's really the results have been really quite remarkable. It wasn't something I ever planned on doing, and but I knew I wanted to get involved with AI in a meaningful way, and so my first words to AI were, I know this may sound strange, because I approached it not asking it to do something for me, I approached it trying to teach it something. Michael Hingson  1:05:35 Right, well, I hope people will reach out and chat with you more and continue the conversation that we started today, but I definitely want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank everyone for listening. Can you believe we've been doing this for more than an hour already? It's pretty cool. Speaker 1  1:05:52 Wow, Michael Hingson  1:05:54 I know. Well, thank you all for listening. I hope, Speaker 1  1:05:57 and I hope, I hope we become new friends, and I really hope you Michael Hingson  1:06:01 keep and I want to, I want to definitely do that, absolutely by any standard, and as Speaker 1  1:06:07 much as we've covered during this hour and 10 minutes or so, we could go another day, or Michael Hingson  1:06:16 I hope all of you will let me know what you think of today, and I hope that you thought very positive thoughts wherever you're listening or watching. Please give us a five star rating, and more important than that, please give us a great review. We love people to review and talk about the stories that they hear. And speaking of telling stories, if any of you want to be a guest, and Kip, if you know of other people who ought to come on the podcast, we're always looking for people to come on and tell their stories and talk about us, so please don't hesitate to do that, Speaker 1  1:06:47 and I'll be more than happy to come back to talk about other things as well. Michael Hingson  1:06:50 Well, we can do that absolutely by in, and I do Speaker 1  1:06:53 want to, I do want to say to everybody, just love each other, it's really that simple, it's really that easy, it sounds only because we've been programmed not to believe in it, but when you move from fear to love, it transforms you entirely. Michael Hingson  1:07:09 Great way to end. Well, thank you again for being here. We really appreciate it. Speaker 1  1:07:14 Thank you, my friend. Michael Hingson  1:07:17 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. 1:08:18 Thank

What if being unstoppable has less to do with confidence and more to do with self-awareness? I had the pleasure of sitting down with Zarko Dimitrioski, a media entrepreneur, actor, talk show host, and marketing agency founder from Macedonia. Zarko shares how growing up as a child television star shaped his confidence, the lessons he learned about ego and leadership, and why experience is often the greatest teacher. We explore marketing, branding, mentorship, business growth, and the value of listening before speaking. Zarko explains how companies build lasting brands, why accountability matters, and how entrepreneurs can thrive even in smaller markets. Along the way, we discuss family, responsibility, personal growth, and what it truly means to develop an unstoppable mindset. I believe you will find his insights on leadership, branding, communication, and lifelong learning both practical and inspiring. Highlights: 01:45 - How a childhood acting career sparked a lifelong passion for media and communication. 07:08 - Why confidence without self-awareness can become a liability. 16:32 - Lessons from the Kellogg School of Management that still shape business decisions today. 21:58 - Why listening beats talking in business, leadership, and life. 35:08 - How strong brands grow through awareness, not just loyalty programs. 01:05:02 - The three traits Zarko looks for when mentoring future leaders. About the Guest: Zarko Dimitrioski is a Macedonian entrepreneur, marketer, and talk-show host who helps brands turn attention into sales. As Managing Partner of BDG Grupa, a full-service creative, digital, and production agency in Skopje, he leads cross-functional teams that deliver end-to-end campaigns for regional and international clients. His operating principle is simple: pair strong product truth with clear, persuasive communication—and measure what matters. In media since the age of six, first as a prominent child-actor, Zarko has hosted One on One (Eден на Еден) for 17 years—the longest-running TV talk show in the country—with Season 17 launching in November 2025. On stage he has addressed audiences from intimate rooms to crowds of 50,000+, relying on a steady system of preparation, calm, and trust whether he's interviewing, keynoting, or directing a brand campaign. Zarko is a Kellogg School of Management alumnus (Northwestern University). He holds college degrees in both Economics and Journalism and a master's degree in Marketing. He serves on the Management Board of the Macedonian Economic Chamber. Honors include Entrepreneur of the Year 2017 (Macedonian Chambers of Commerce and Ministry of Finance) and Forbes 30 Under 30 Europe 2018—Media & Marketing. Under his leadership, BDG has become a premium partner to leading brands across finance, FMCG, tech, and retail. The agency delivers strategy, creative, social, video and animation, media, and performance marketing under one roof, and often acts as a fast, cost-efficient production hub for network agencies such as Luna/TBWA and for UK partners who value BDG's quality-to-cost advantage. A lifelong student of behavioral economics and effectiveness, Zarko designs work that reduces friction, frames value intelligently and moves real numbers. He's passionate about inclusive, accessible content—because it's both right and higher-performing. Building from a small market taught him focus, pragmatism, and speed. He enjoys collaborating with teams who want practical creativity and a low-risk trial that proves value fast. Ways to connect with Zarko: email: zare@bdg-agency.comlinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zarkodimitrioski/agency website: https://bdg-agency.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when heartbreak becomes the starting point for a whole new purpose? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Heather Christie, author, educator, entrepreneur, and founder of Love Notes, a storytelling movement built around real stories of real love. Heather shares how commuting alone to New York City as a teenager shaped her independence, why she walked away from her creative dreams after marrying young, and how writing helped her rediscover herself after the end of a 30-year marriage. We explore storytelling, resilience, creativity, publishing, relationships, and the power of authentic human connection. You will hear how Heather transformed loneliness into hope through Love Notes, an off-Broadway storytelling series that is now expanding across the country and helping people reconnect with the many forms love can take. Highlights: 01:25 - Learn how early independence shaped Heather's confidence and resilience. 16:03 - Discover why staying true to yourself matters in life and relationships. 19:29 - Hear how heartbreak inspired a search for real love stories. 27:21 - Learn how writing helped Heather reconnect with her creativity. 32:35 - Discover the mindset that helped her push through years of rejection. 47:17 - Hear what Heather believes is at the heart of real love. About the Guest: Heather Christie is a speaker, writer-producer, educator, and the creator of LoveNotes! — Real Stories. Real People. Real Love.®—an Off-Broadway storytelling show that's expanding through satellite productions alongside an award-winning anthology. An award-winning YA author, she wrote What The Valley Knows and The Lying Season, which debuted as an Amazon #1 bestseller in Young Adult Soccer Fiction. Her essays have appeared in Salon, NextTribe, Writer's Digest, Baltimore Style, Scary Mommy, Elephant Journal, The Good Men Project, Grown & Flown, Baltimore Child, Parent.co, Her View From Home, the Erma Bombeck Writers' Workshop, and The Lighter Side of Real Estate. Heather holds a BA in Literary Studies from UT-Dallas and an MFA from Pine Manor College. She is CEO of SocRoc Soccer and an adjunct lecturer at the City University of New York. Ways to connect with Heather: Website: www.LoveNotesWorldwide.com & www.HeatherChristieBooks.com Instagram:@_heatherchristie/lovenotes_worldwideFacebook: @heatherchristiebooks / @LoveNotesWorldwideLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-christie-mfa-4b976049/LoveNotes! AnthologyWhat The Valley Knows (book)The Lying Season (book) About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:06 John, thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. Today we get the opportunity and the honor of chatting with Heather Christy, and Heather, Heather is an author. She and her brother have formed a company, so she's clearly an entrepreneur. She's acted, she's a keynote speaker, and I don't know what all we're going to find out in the next hour or so, but definitely an exciting person to get a chance to chat with. So, Heather, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Speaker 1  01:47 Thank you, Michael. I'm so honored that we're going to have a conversation today. Michael Hingson  01:52 And Heather lives in New York City, she lives in Manhattan, or as we all know it, the city. And before we started this, we were talking about the fact that winter is coming everywhere. Ah, well, what do you do as long as you don't get too much snow back there? Speaker 1  02:11 Yeah, the winters have been pretty mild here the last couple years, so see what happens. Michael Hingson  02:16 Yeah, time will tell. Well, why don't we start? Tell us about the early Heather growing up in some of those things. Speaker 1  02:22 Okay, well, as a young person, I, I wanted to be an actress, and I grew up in a really small rural town, about two hours due west of New York City, in Pennsylvania. It's called the Holy Valley. Michael Hingson  02:37 What town? Speaker 1  02:39 Oh, it's called Oli Oley Valley, it's actually a Michael Hingson  02:42 valley. Okay, Speaker 1  02:43 historic site. And so I had a really interesting sort of upbringing, because I, before it was really in vogue, I was on a work-study program, and I would spend half my day in this small Pennsylvania town, and then I would jump on a bus - it was called the Bieber Bus back then - and drive to New York City on the bus, and that was like two to two and a half hours each way, get off in the, you know, huge metropolis of New York City, go on auditions, go sees, or if I had a booking, I'd do the booking, and then I would jump back on the bus and go all the way back to rural Pennsylvania, and that's how I spent like all my high school years was back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and then I actually graduated early. I graduated halfway through my senior year. I had enough of my credits done that I'd actually, the first half of my senior year, I went to community college, and I took a class in the evenings, so I could be done by Christmas break, and the only requirement I still needed to fulfill was my physical fitness, so I ended up moving to New York City, and then I would take my physical fitness classes at Steps Dance Studio, and then I was still able to graduate with my class in June, but I was living in New York City from January on of what would have been senior year. Yeah, so it was like the early me, and the one thing that was sort of interesting when I was on the work study, my mom was a mathematician, and my dad was a an ER doctor, so they actually tutored me. My mom tutored me in math, and my father tutored me in chemistry. And then, like my history teacher back back in the day, we had Walkmans, and he would record his three lessons on a Walkman, and I would listen to them on the bus back and forth from New York. Michael Hingson  04:43 Yep, Lockmans were the big thing back in time. Sony created a very clever thing, but as with everything, the technology has advanced beyond that. Now Speaker 1  04:58 that's right. Yeah, now my kids. Wouldn't even recognize a Walkman, Michael Hingson  05:02 they wouldn't recognize a cassette either. Speaker 1  05:05 That's right, yeah, it would be like an ancient artifact. Michael Hingson  05:08 What's really strange is there are a lot of people who don't even really know anymore what CDs are. Speaker 1  05:14 That's true, yeah. Michael Hingson  05:16 Much less, well, and DVD is sort of going the same way, it hasn't quite got there, but we, we are new now, moving more into streaming and things like that, but, gee, what a crazy world. Well, so you went through high school, basically commuting to New York. What did your parents think of that? Speaker 1  05:35 Well, I was one of four children, I was the oldest child, and what's remarkable is in the beginning, my mother would go with me, but it was hard to do that, and have you know three other children at home, so by the time I was 15 I was doing it on my own, and when I.. it's just like such a different culture that children are raised in now, there's sort of this idea that we, we can't let them kind of do their own thing, you know, like there's, we're so follow every move and thing they do, but that was like a lot of independence my parents granted me at such a young age, and so they thought, I mean, it was great, and they gave me the support I needed, but at the same time they allowed me to be really independent at a pretty young age. I know when I tell people, "Oh, yeah, I moved to New York City when I was 17 by myself, they're like, "And your parents let you do that? And New York, and this was in the late 80s, early 90s, and New York was like a whole different place, like when I get off the bus at Port Authority back then, like now that whole strip Times Square is kind of sanitized and disified, but back then it was, it was a little rough, Michael Hingson  06:56 it was a lot of X-rated things, and all that, I did some commuting more in the early 90s. I sold products, and I would travel back to New York, because that's where I sold to. I traveled from California, and I remember it was there was a lot of stuff on 42nd Street that was very X-rated, and so on, a lot different than the musical 42nd Street, but that's okay. Speaker 1  07:20 That's right, yeah, Michael Hingson  07:21 but it is a lot, a lot cleaner now than it was, and I remember times I would go out of my hotel and there would be people who would say you really shouldn't be walking around on your own, and why not, and they said, well, because it's pretty dangerous here, and you know, the the angels that that were out there insisted on escorting me everywhere I went, just because they were concerned about me, and I wasn't, although I understand the the situation, but I wasn't going to go in the middle of Central Park at night either, so you know, Speaker 1  07:58 right, and I was a lot the same for me. I remember, though, getting.. I would get off the bus at the Port Authority, for people who know you, New York City, it's on Eighth Avenue, and then I would feel like I wasn't like fully safe until I could get to Lord and Taylor, which was on Sixth Avenue. Yeah, and then it felt like everything got a little bit safer and calmer, the energy changed. Michael Hingson  08:23 Yeah, Speaker 1  08:23 that Michael Hingson  08:24 was a lot different. You could always go to St. Patrick's Cathedral for refuge too. So, but yeah, the Port Authority was an interesting place to go, and I understand. Well, how did.. how did all that affect you, and how did, how does what you did back then kind of affect you in the way you think today, especially with children and so on? Would you give them that same level of independence today? Speaker 1  08:52 That's a really interesting question. And my children are a little older than I was at that time now, but I do think about when they were 15, 1616, years old, and if I'm to answer the question really honestly, I don't know that I would have. I just feel like, and I don't know what's changed about society that makes it that way, that and part of it I think is maybe like the news cycle just is constantly highlighting everything that's wrong and fear based that that's what we see and it's in our faces so much more because we have all this access to it through social media that it it creates sort of this, this like undercurrent in parenting that, that we're, that we're oftentimes afraid, like, what could happen to our children. So, I don't know if I actually would have let them commute like that by themselves, you know? Like, yeah, I don't think I would have. Michael Hingson  09:56 Yeah, it's definitely different now than it was then, and. And I think you're right with especially the news cycle and also in reality there's there's so much gun violence and other stuff going on and I ask people when we talk about it I ask is it really that there's more now or it's just more visible in the news, and I'm not sure that it's just visibility. I think there is more stuff going on, and it's not being stopped nearly as effectively or as aggressively as it should be, and it does make it a scarier world. It's tougher, I think, by far to be a kid now than it was when you were a kid, much less I believe when I was growing up. We just didn't see the kinds of things that we see today, and I don't think it's all just exposure from the news. I think there's there's some truth to the fact that that there are other issues going on, Speaker 1  11:00 right, that it actually is a more dangerous world that we live in. Michael Hingson  11:03 Yeah, and I think that it is something that we do have to think about, and hopefully someday sanity will come back to it all. I agree, I'm of the opinion that eventually it will, but you know, so that's cool. But, but still, we have to do what we do, but I also think that we can't stifle our children, we have to give them the opportunity to grow. It may be that you might, when your children were the age you were, you might have decided, well, one of us just has to go with you all the time, and we're going to just to keep an eye on you, or you have other people that help, but I think being so aggressively smothering that you don't let children grow is a problem too. Speaker 1  11:53 Yeah, I agree. I think that's, I mean, there's that saying, and maybe I'll get it right, or maybe I'll get it wrong here, that we need to give our children roots and wings, Michael Hingson  12:02 yeah, Speaker 1  12:02 and that's the challenge, is to find the balance, Michael Hingson  12:06 yeah. Well, and so for you, you were given a lot of independence. How did that shape kind of your attitude, and how does it shape the way you look at life today? Speaker 1  12:20 Well, that's a really great question, and for all the independence that I had as a young person, and maybe, maybe I was given too much independence in some ways, because I, I ended up marrying very young, and and I often wonder, like, had my parents not given me as much independence, if I would have done that, but yeah, I still think I'm very independent now, and I've tried to instill that in my children as well, and I think they're, they're really great kids, and they've launched really well, which I know is a common problem with today's young adults, is the this sort of inability to to launch, and I, I feel really good. My both my kids have done that and done it well. Michael Hingson  13:15 Well, and all you can do is your best, Speaker 1  13:19 right? Michael Hingson  13:20 I think we don't do this nearly as much as we should, but it ultimately comes down to, you know, kids want all sorts of independence, and so on. Parents are, are.. I'm talking about parents who really think about what they do, they may not want children to have that much independence, but I think the key is that you really need to communicate with your kids and teach them what's going on and why, Speaker 1  13:48 right. I think that's it's to be open and transparent with, with our children is very, and to have like the hard conversations and give them a safe space in which they can speak to Michael Hingson  14:02 the other side of that is that we should hold them to the same standard and say when you have issues and so on, we're here, we're not going to judge you, you need to have the hard conversations with us too. And I don't think we do nearly as much of that. I know when I was growing up, we had a lot of conversations. Of course, I was blind. I've been blind my whole life, and I encountered a lot of different things growing up, and my parents were glad to talk with me about blindness, and glad to talk with me about different things about independence, and it also was true that they allowed me to be independent. I mean, I rode my own bike around the neighborhood, and some other.. I'm not the only blind kid that did that in the world, but in my town I was brand.. and I think that, you know, I'm. Sure, that I was watched, but parents didn't interfere. I mean, I even fell off the bike a couple times until I really learned how to ride it, but they allowed me to have the opportunity to grow, and I think that there is a way to do that without, without, well, without stifling your kids, and that you can, you can let kids grow, and we should really emphasize curiosity a lot more than we do. Speaker 1  15:29 I agree, I think that's really important, is to give kids the space to grow and encourage curiosity. Michael Hingson  15:36 Yeah, we don't probably do that nearly as much as we ought to, well, so you mentioned you got married at 19. Well, I guess that's a little young, but, but you did that, huh? Speaker 1  15:48 I did. Yes, I did. I married young. Michael Hingson  15:54 How did that work out? Speaker 1  15:56 Well, it, it worked out for a little, well, it worked out for a while. I stayed married a really long time, but I eventually divorced 30 years later, and part of that had to do with I was, I did marry young, but my ex-husband also had some addictions that you know in time just became too hard to manage, so that ended the thing, and he Michael Hingson  16:29 wouldn't, and he wouldn't deal with them Speaker 1  16:31 well. At one point, I mean, we'll ask a lot of times in relationship with addicts, you kind of, there are times when they deal with them, and then times when they don't, Michael Hingson  16:39 right? Speaker 1  16:40 Yeah, so ultimately it dissolved. Michael Hingson  16:44 It's too bad when things happen. Speaker 1  16:47 That's right, yeah, but I'm grateful for the the union, because it produced my two great kids. Michael Hingson  16:56 And what, what else did being married for 30 years teach you? Speaker 1  17:01 Well, wow, that's a great question. I think probably it taught me most of all it's a lesson learned, sort of, that you really need to be true to yourself and listen to yourself, because I think deep down we know, and my I was always trying, like, to try harder, if I just try harder, you know, things will get better, but there's part of me deep down that knew I was sort of trying harder for everybody else but myself. And when I left New York, I had given up everything I'd worked on, and in, you know, in hindsight, when I look back, I, it was in a way I sort of abandon all my dreams and hopes, and ultimately I don't think that's a good thing when you give up yourself for someone else. Michael Hingson  17:50 So, after you got married, what did you do? Where did you go? Speaker 1  17:54 Well, my ex-husband was a professional soccer player, so we ended up going around the United States, he played for a couple different teams, and I went to college, and I finished my degree at the University of Texas, and then I, I did a couple things, I was a flight attendant, and I eventually fell into real estate, and worked in real estate for a long, long time, but along the way, I, there was a, there was a point where I kind of really missed that young creative person that I had started out my life as, and I'd always loved books and lacher, and my undergraduate degree was in literary studies, and I started writing stories, and then at midlife went back to graduate school for a master's of fine arts in creative writing, and and started writing. So I was, I was always doing a bunch of things. I was a real estate broker, I was managing a company, and then I was, I was writing, and began writing novels on the side. Michael Hingson  18:58 What was your bachelor's degree in Speaker 1  19:00 literary studies. Michael Hingson  19:02 Oh, okay, Speaker 1  19:03 yeah. Michael Hingson  19:04 So, you never did get degrees in what either of your parents did. Speaker 1  19:09 No, no, no, Michael Hingson  19:10 you weren't that into math. Speaker 1  19:12 No, not at all. No, I always liked words, words. Michael Hingson  19:16 Yeah, I understand. I do pretty well with math, but by the same token, I've been learning more about words, having now written three books, and appreciate it. I also like to collaborate, so when I write, I generally write with someone. I think that the team approach works, at least it does for me, and there are a lot of people who don't use a second person on their team, other than their publishers, editors, and so on, but for me the collaborative way works, which is fine. Speaker 1  19:49 I've had a little bit more experience later now in my creative career, because I've, and maybe we'll talk about this in a little bit, but I've started producing storytelling shows, so I. Work with the storytellers in helping them in their stories, so that's a much more collaborative exercise, and one one I really enjoy. Michael Hingson  20:09 Yeah, well, well, let's, let's, you know, we could talk about it now. What the heck, we don't have to do this in a linear way. Tell me about storytelling. What you think about storytelling. Why is it so important, and so on. Speaker 1  20:25 Well, for me, so the storytelling that I do, I'm working on this project called Love Notes, which real stories by real people about real love, and that came to me during the darkest, loneliest period of my life. It was, you know, after the disillusion of this 30 year marriage, and I was really despondent and, and disillusioned, and thinking, you know, like, does love even exist, and what does it look like, and I just, I just really didn't even believe in love anymore, and being in the storytelling community, I produced some storytelling shows, stories about motherhood. I put out a call to writers and actors and just regular people to share their true love stories, and so from that, people started sending me all these true stories, they had to be 1000 words or fewer, and so to answer your question, like, what does storytelling do in, in this case, I think story, storytelling, it's different than other mediums, like the personal essay or the novel, it's, it's a, it's a testament, it's a first person testament, and what's really great when you see the different storytelling communities around the country is anybody can do it, and so that's part of the beauty of storytelling. Michael Hingson  22:00 I think the key is, though, it has to be a genuine story. Making it up isn't the same thing, Speaker 1  22:06 right? And that's the difference, right? Because people will write a short story or story thing, but in storytelling, you're exactly right, Michael. It needs to be a true story, and that's what makes it so compelling, and I think so relatable, is that people can see themselves in other people's stories, so like in my case it was a way, it was like the evidence, the proof of love, like what it really looks like as it walks around in the world, Michael Hingson  22:36 so that's it, sounds like changed your view of love, and that you believe in love again. I Speaker 1  22:46 do, I do, and it's it, and even like during the first season of Love Notes, because we do an off-Broadway show here in Manhattan, and we have an anthology, a companion anthology. I remember that first year, like some I'd wake up in the morning and just like be not despondent but upset, like, oh, like this doesn't happen. And then literally there was like a little voice in my head that would say, oh well, don't you remember Stacey's story or Sarah's story? And it was like just like the the universe providing this evidence and this this proof and just hearing enough stories and story after story, yeah, it really did fortify my belief in love, and that love is for everyone, and it comes like from all these different angles, and when you least expect it, and it shows up in so many different forms. Michael Hingson  23:43 Yeah, well, and I think there's there's a lot of merit to that. I know when I was writing this last book that I wrote, which is entitled Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Dogs, about being brave, overcoming adversity, and moving forward in faith, I spent a lot of time talking about each of the eight guide dogs that I've had and the lessons I learned from them, and also using those lessons in the book to show the importance of different aspects of what happens in our lives, but I have maintained for years I've learned a lot more about life and learned about leadership and teamwork. I've learned a lot more from these dogs than I ever learned from all the experts in the world, and that's primarily because we'll have some interesting observations. One, I allow my dogs to express themselves, but they also learn what the rules are. Because dogs really want to hear from humans, they want humans to set the rules, they want humans to be the pack leaders, by and large, and they want humans to be the ones to say this is what I expect, but when. That relationship forms, and it forms well. There's it's second to none, and you learn so much. Dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally, but they're open to trust, and we're not. And we really should learn to be more open to trust, and just so many different kinds of things. It has really given me a lot of pause to think over the past several years, while we were writing the book, and, and I, and I think about it now. There are a lot of neat stories in there that really ultimately are love stories in one way or another, and I think that makes a lot of sense. Speaker 1  25:36 Oh, that's so.. I'm actually a new dog owner, well, not too new, I.. I'm for the first time in my adult life have a dog, and I just.. it's such a wonderful, like, experience, and it's opened me up to, yeah, like so many different levels of love. Michael Hingson  25:53 Yeah, dogs want to establish a relationship, but as I said, I don't think that they are open to just trusting they do pretty much love unconditionally, unless something just totally traumatizes them. But trusting is a different story, and that's a trust that has to be earned both ways. It's not just us earning their trust, but they're earning our trust, and the people who really take that to heart and develop that relationship and think about it, find that they have a bond that's really second to none. It's as close to knit a team as you could ever find. Speaker 1  26:35 That's beautiful. Michael Hingson  26:37 So, it's a lot of fun. What kind of dog do you have? Speaker 1  26:40 I have, well, because remember I'm in a small New York City. I have a teacup poodle. Michael Hingson  26:46 Oh, so it isn't a Saint Bernard, okay? Speaker 1  26:49 And she's, she's an eye, she's a, she's a character. She, she acts like she's a cross between a teacup and a pit bull when she's in the, when she's out on the street. She does not like she's a scaredy cat on the street. She would prefer to be carried when we're on the street, so she's got sort of a split personality, but she, and she doesn't take too many people. So, just like you were saying, I can identify with that, like the whole trust element, and she's, she only trusts a few people. Michael Hingson  27:25 Yeah, well, trust isn't something that happens overnight. I've maintained for a long time. I think it takes a good year for me when I am meeting a new guide dog. I think it takes a good year for the trust to become so seamless that we really know what each other is thinking, and I think that we really do understand each other. There's a lot of empathy there, Speaker 1  27:52 that's really great. So, Michael Hingson  27:53 I think it's, it is kind of cool. Well, so, but going back to you getting married and all that, so you gave up for a while a lot of your dreams, that that must have, whether it was conscious or not, been a little bit frustrating. Speaker 1  28:08 Yeah, and I didn't realize it at the time. It was only later, like when my younger self sort of came calling, and I had given up a lot for this marriage that didn't really turn out the way I had hoped, and yeah, so writing was a way for me to find myself again, was not only a refuge during that time in my life when I wasn't really happy, but it also really opened up that whole creative part of myself, which felt really good, and it's, you know, it's been something now I've been working on for the last decade and a half, Michael Hingson  28:57 but it sounds like you didn't really, or at least consciously you didn't really know that you were unhappy. Speaker 1  29:03 No, I didn't, and that's a really interesting observation that that you make, because you know, I had my children, I loved my children, and I loved being a mom, and I had a really fulfilling career, but there was something missing, you know, and I wasn't really able to put my finger on that until I started writing, and then it became more and more obvious that, yeah, this is the part that was missing, this, you know, who you had thought you were going to be a creative, you, you had denied that, and you're right, so it wasn't really conscious, but, like, once I sort of, it started to become more noticeable to me, then it sort of came back with a vengeance. Michael Hingson  29:49 How much writing did you do before you got married? Speaker 1  29:53 Before.. well, I really didn't, because I was more in the.. I read a lot. Lot, and, but I was more into that, the acting, so I didn't really, I mean, I would write some really bad poetry, but not anything. I know some writers will say they were writing from the time they were six years old, but I, it didn't come to me till much later. Michael Hingson  30:16 So, what got you started back writing after your marriage ended, what was the trigger that made that happen? Speaker 1  30:25 Writing and the marriage, it was like the last 10 years of, of my marriage, I was writing, and it's, I sort of wrote my, my way out of the marriage in a way, but what was the trigger, and I do remember there wasn't an absolute trigger. I had a friend who had self-published a book. Michael Hingson  30:45 Okay, Speaker 1  30:46 I was like a friend of a friend. And one afternoon, it was a summer afternoon, we were over at her house because she had been hired to go to an elementary school and do a presentation, and so we were brainstorming and about what she could do at this presentation, and I went home from that, and I was like, I felt like so energized again. I was like, wow, well, I could do this, I could write a children's book, and so I sat down, and I wrote this book called Beatrice Bumblebee is busy. I didn't know anything about publishing, and I thought to myself, okay, well, now I'll just write it, and I'll send it to publishers, and I'll get it published. Well, it was promptly rejected by every single publisher, and I knew nothing about the publishing that point, but it was enough of a spark. And then I did start just sort of playing around, and I had this scene in my head of a girl, like a young girl who's been in a car accident, and she's on the side of the road losing consciousness, and she has this terrible secret that she wants to tell her boyfriend, and this, the scene, it was like a dark, wet Pennsylvania night, and it was an autumn, and like, I could see the mist, and so I had written this scene, and I remember giving it to my father, who was a huge reader, and he's like, well, Heather, this is really good. Why don't you keep trying to work on it? And, and so I did, and I love school, so I was like, well, I don't know how to write, like, how can I learn how to write? And then I sort of discovered, oh, well, there's these MFA programs, and so I ended up applying, and and going back to school, and then it was in my MFA program, where I wrote the first draft of my first novel, but yeah, so the actual trigger was a friend who had published a self-published a book, and it really kind of triggered something in me. Michael Hingson  32:38 Whatever happened to Beatrice Bumblebee is busy, Speaker 1  32:41 she is in a drawer, but I do keep.. I have here on my bulletin board. I'll pull it down if we're on camera. I have this little bumblebee, it's like a rhinestone bumblebee that I keep stuck on my bulletin board as just a reminder that the address in my life. Michael Hingson  33:07 Well, are you ever going to publish it? Speaker 1  33:10 Oh, I don't think it's very good, Michael. Michael Hingson  33:12 Okay, well, maybe you should go back and rewrite it, but Speaker 1  33:16 then, and maybe if I have grandchildren someday, maybe I'll, I'll be, yeah, that's kind of interesting that you say that. Maybe I will go back and just look at it. It would be fun to look at it all these years later. Michael Hingson  33:32 Yeah, well, so you got rejected a whole bunch, which is a pretty common story. What did you learn from that? Speaker 1  33:42 Well, and I do, I do talks at different places, and one of the talks I say is I started with the, you know, Calvin Coolidge said most of humanity's problems can be solved with two simple words, press on, and and that's what I learned through the process. My first book was on submission for like 520 weeks before it finally found a publisher, and it was every degree of rejection that you can get when you're publishing, you know, I'm, and for people who understand the publishing hierarchy, you know, the coveted placement is to land a book deal with one of the big five traditional publishers, and then from there it works its way way down, and we had gotten close on some of the big fives and other places where we'd made it to acquisitions, and we finally ended up with a small indie publisher, but it took so long, and it was so soul crushing in a way, and not so much the first book, and the first book I was still like super, super hopeful, and then once it was published, it did go on, and it won the new. National Indy Excellence Award, and I kind of was always thinking of it as a, you know, a stepping stone, a stepping stone, and that the second book would, would land the big publishing deal, and the second book took just as long, and it ended up right back with the same publisher, so the rejection taught me, yeah, that you just need to keep going. I mean, sometimes people hit really easily, or you know, the way the wind's blowing that day, whatever's on trend or top of mind, and, and sometimes it doesn't, but you have to do it because you, you love it, and you're called to do it. Michael Hingson  35:46 When you were getting rejected, did you get any substantive feedback that helped, or do do publishers do much of that? Speaker 1  35:54 Well, actually, I did, especially on my second book, and on the first book, too, it depends how interested they are in the book, and I did have a couple that were pretty interested and gave what's called like an editorial letter, and oftentimes they won't even do that unless you're under contract, but I did have a couple that had liked it enough, so on my second book, especially my agent and I then took that information and did some like hard edits and rewrites, but that's not always the case. I mean, and I have a lot of friends who are also in the business, sometimes you don't get any, any feedback. Michael Hingson  36:39 So now all together, how many books have you written? Speaker 1  36:42 Well, I've written two, and then I've edited and curated the anthology, the Love Notes anthology, Michael Hingson  36:48 right? Speaker 1  36:49 Which, and I've written a small bit of that. Um, yeah, so I'd like to say three books. Michael Hingson  36:54 Are there more books in you? Okay, Speaker 1  36:58 for sure. We have, you know, we'll. well, first, the second, the second Love Notes edition, I'm definitely editing and curating the stories for that, and that's through a small publisher. And then I have been really sort of toying around with, like, what's my next book, and my first two books were young adult romance, mystery, and thriller, and I kind of think I'm done with that genre, so I have talked about an adult, adult fiction, or even a that would go kind of hand in hand with Love Notes, the my story type of book, you know, rebuilding after divorce and being on, you know, what the space that love notes came out of, and going on, you know, hundreds of dates, and what that, that looked like, but that's in a very sort of nebulous state. It Michael Hingson  37:54 will be fun to see what happens. You'll have to keep us all posted, Speaker 1  37:58 yeah, for sure. Michael Hingson  38:00 But you've, you've described your creative journey, your whole creative journey is basically transforming heartbreak into healing. Tell me more about that. Speaker 1  38:14 Yeah, like I touched on earlier, Love Notes came out as sort of this really dark, lonely time in my life. My 30 year marriage had ended. My children had both left for college, and I'd relocated to New York City. So I was living alone for the first time in my adult lifetime. I was 19 years old, and New York can be a really.. for as many people who live here, it can be a really lonely place. I was really, really starting over, and I started dating at midlife, is, you know, it's not for the faint of heart, and I was going on a lot of dates, and just really discouraged by the whole process, and, like, I had sort of mentioned earlier, that's where I kind of was like almost indignant, like you know, I want proof, like show me proof that that love is real, and and that's where this this call to like look for people's love stories came from, so I do say it, it truly came out of a place of of loneliness and darkness, and then hope, though, too. You know, I was hoping I wanted to, I wanted, I wanted the stories to give me proof. I wanted them to be the evidence, and then, and then that sort of became a calling that, well, then I want to share that with other people and give other people hope, and that's been the most gratifying part for me is when somebody like they come to the show and the shows are really great, these storytelling shows, and now I've started to franchise them, so we have them popping up in some other cities, and I've gone around to some of the other cities, in fact, if you have any listeners who. When I produce a love note show, but the audience members, they're like, "Oh, wow, this, this was.. they don't expect it, first of all, coming into it, and everybody walks out feeling good, and that is like so gratifying to me, that, like, you know, in this, in these like divisive times, that they can come to a show, they can recognize part of the human experience, and they can walk out feeling uplifted and Speaker 2  40:25 hopeful, and that some readers, Speaker 1  40:27 you know, in the book do that too, like having read the book, and someone will reach out and say, "Oh, well, that just really gave me hope. So, hope that answers the question a little bit. Michael Hingson  40:40 Does it? Does it? Does get so the two books that you've written are what the Valley Knows and The Lying Season. Tell me more about those. What the interesting titles, to say the least. Speaker 1  40:52 Yeah, okay, so the both books are they're not ones, they're not a sequel and a prequel, but I would call them a series, because they're both in this fictional town of Millington Valley, which is much like the small town I grew up in, the Oley Valley, and it's all set around this high school, so the peripheral characters in the book stay the same, like the English teacher and the principal, but the kids, you know, because kids are only in high school for four years at a time, so different kids kind of like move through both of the books, they're both mysteries or are thrillers, and they both have like a big kind of like moral question at their center, both sent it set in this Millington Valley, which is a small Pennsylvania town, Michael Hingson  41:45 right? And they're, they're for juveniles, primarily. You said, I think, right. Speaker 1  41:52 Well, they are. They'd be considered young adults. What the valley knows, that's told from three point of views: two kids, and then one of the kids' mothers, so it has a lot of crossover appeal. So you and that book originally started at six point of views, and that was when I was in graduate school, and I remember my professor saying to me, Well, Heather, that's that's just too ambitious to try to do for your first book, you need to cut it down, and, and just whoever's story has to be there, that's the point of view you, you include, and so it kind of fell into the young adult category by accident, but I have a lot of adult readers who, who it really resonates as well, Michael Hingson  42:43 yeah. You know, I know a lot of people say, especially the early ones, the Harry Potter books are for more young adults, and so on, but I certainly had no problem enjoying them as a full-fledged, real-life middle-aged adult. So I think there's a lot that we can learn by stretching and not necessarily just falling into the trap of reading one kind or, or one sort of book that's, oh, this is for more adults or this is more for for children. Think there's a lot to be learned all the way around. Speaker 1  43:17 I think you're, you're right, Michael, and that's it's kind of like a modern thing that we do, like classifying books as adult fiction, like when we think about Catcher in the Rye, like what would that be considered now? Because the protagonist is a young adult, would it be considered a young adult book? But yeah, that's a really great point that you're making. Michael Hingson  43:40 Well, so you, you wrote these books, and you said that, so they've been published, and I assume they're out there. Do you know if they're audio books also? Speaker 1  43:52 Well, yes, and but here's the thing, I, because I didn't get to pick the publisher, I mean, the, you know, I didn't get to pick the narrator, so the what they both, okay, so what the bally knows is narrated. Yes, I don't like the narrator's voice. I know that's a terrible thing to say, because I would love for people to go and listen to the audio book, but I don't know, and maybe it's just me. And then the second book the publisher actually used like an AI kind of, I don't know exactly how it works, and I didn't really even know it happened till I went on Amazon one day, I was like, oh, they made an audio book of this, and it was in like an AI voice, so, so the answer is yes. Both of them are on audiobook. Love Notes is not the other bar. Michael Hingson  44:49 It's interesting, I'm on several lists that deal with audio books, and so on, and I hear people talking or. Emailing on the list all the time, and what people have often said is nonfiction books that are not what they're necessarily as much into as fiction books, they don't mind it being an AI voice, but when they're reading good fiction, where they really want to be absorbed, AI and synthetic voices text to speech just doesn't do it, and in fact I buy into that. I agree with that. I don't think that we have yet gotten computer synthesized voices to really take the place of human readers, and I don't know that we ever totally will, because we're so used to what people sound like, but it is an interesting thing that does come up. Speaker 1  45:47 Yeah, I agree with you. Michael Hingson  45:50 So, I prefer human readers in general. I've never been as great a fan of having a synthetic voice. Nothing against computers, but they just don't talk as well as humans do. Speaker 1  46:03 No, I agree with you too. I much prefer the human voice. Michael Hingson  46:09 Well, so you, when did you start writing love notes? When did that really start coming to fruition? Speaker 1  46:17 Well, love notes. We're coming into our third off-Broadway season this Valentine's Day, so it started that would, so it was started in 22 Michael Hingson  46:27 Oh, yeah. Okay, Speaker 1  46:29 so it's a relatively young project. We're going into our third year, but I'm super excited. We just cast the show for this upcoming performance, and that's really exciting. We have, you know, a bunch of local New Yorkers, but then we also have about the cast is 12 members, and six of them are from other parts of the country, so it's, it's got a, you know, flavor from from from all over. Michael Hingson  46:57 Now, is Love Notes available in any way online, or is it strictly just the shows, and they're not recorded and disseminated in any way. The Speaker 1  47:06 the all-star show, which is Valentine's Day at Symphony Space in New York City, the APM show is live streamed. Yeah, so it can be enjoyed from anywhere in the world. Michael Hingson  47:19 Okay, but outside of that one being live streamed, are there recordings of any of the shows that are out there for people to hear? Speaker 1  47:28 There are on my website, actually. Both the 2023 show and the 2024 show are available for resale. I think it's like $15 and you can, you can watch it's like it's a great, like date night kind of thing to watch the Love Notes show. Michael Hingson  47:48 Okay. Well, so from all that you have heard and seen and interacted with in doing Love Notes, how do you define real love today? Speaker 1  48:01 Oh that's it. Oh, Michael Hingson  48:03 that for a question out of left field. Yeah, Speaker 1  48:06 that's a great question. How do I define real love? So, I think real love shows up in a lot of different ways, and it.. and what's interesting in love notes, is I've seen all sorts of examples of it. I've seen the type of real love that ignites people when they're young, you know. Speaker 3  48:31 We'll love Speaker 1  48:31 that's the other thing people will say, "Oh, well, you were too young, that's why it didn't work out. But I don't think that's necessarily true. I think I think a little bit sometimes is luck of the draw, but the I've seen examples of people who met when they were 20 years old, and they've stayed together their entire lives, and that shows up in commitment and the ability to grow up together and to grow and evolve together, so I think real love shows up like that, but I've also seen real love, like the second time around type of love, and that sort of love, where people really need to be able to integrate their past and understand they're both two people carrying bags, and now they're going to carry those bags together, and so that shows up in a different way. Real love, and I've even seen it love showing up for people like in their 80s, third time around, or having never had partnered, and finding a partner very late in life, and that shows up in a whole different way, that's absolutely real too, but I think at the core of all types of real love is one, the ability to both people have to want the relationship, and they have. To be willing to work for the relationship, it's not just like what I want or you want, but it's oftentimes if they can ask the question, like what's the problem, and how is are we a team against the problem, or to be able to solve the problem, and I think that's sort of like the realist type of love that's out there, Michael Hingson  50:26 and I would, would also say it goes back to something we talked about earlier with, with dogs, dogs are are very much open to and do love unconditionally, and when we develop that kind of a relationship, it's as strong as any other kind of relationship that we can develop. When both sides of that relationship sense it and know it, it creates a bond that's, as I said earlier, second to none. Speaker 1  50:58 Yeah, that's a really great way of putting Michael Hingson  51:02 it. I would, I would not want to do anything to betray my guide dog or any of the guide dogs that I've had, but I've learned how to create those teams, and I think that's very important. One thing that that sticks in my mind dealing with dogs is when I lived in Northern California, we were very close to the Marin Humane Society, which is one of the more famous organizations of that type in the world. We were talking to one of the people at the Marin Humane Society one day, and they were talking about the fact that they're growing in class sizes and growing in the number of classes that they have to offer, but what they also point out is that 90% of the training isn't training the dog, it's training the human, which is really true. There's so much that humans don't really work to develop the relationship that they should, and that if they really truly understood it, it would, it would be a whole lot different relationship that they would experience, Speaker 1  52:05 yeah, that's a really nice way of looking at it. Michael Hingson  52:10 Well, so you have love notes that are growing by loops and bounds in a lot of ways, and you have, how many different places are doing the shows now? Speaker 1  52:24 Well, so far we have Indianapolis, Chicago, Redding, Pennsylvania, and then we have another Pennsylvania city, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and we're in talks right now with Atlanta, Georgia, and Tampa, Florida. Michael Hingson  52:42 Wow, so it's growing, Speaker 1  52:45 it's growing, it's starting to spread. We're starting to spread some love. Michael Hingson  52:51 I get it. What do you think about that? Speaker 1  52:54 I think it's great. Like, I hope I'd love to see one in every city. Such a nice event that really brings the community together. Michael Hingson  53:04 So, how often do the shows run? Is it just like on Valentine's Day, or do they go throughout the whole year? Speaker 1  53:10 It can be any time of year, and it's usually just a one-day event. Sometimes there's multiple shows on one day, but yeah, it's just a one day. Oftentimes the local producer will partner with a local charity, so we try to give back in that way too, and they can choose the charity they want, or, or sometimes they're trying to fund like a scholarship fund, or or something like that. I do encourage that, and and we have like a mastermind group among the producers just trying to support each other as creative entrepreneurs. Michael Hingson  53:46 Well, you're you're seeing a lot of success with it. What kind of surprises have you experienced? This must be kind of a thrill, and a lot of, a lot of surprises for you. Speaker 1  53:58 Well, one of the surprises. well, I'm not surprised by it anymore, but I, I can, I'm certain, always surprised when I have a cast member who, at the very last minute, you know, they've gone through all the rehearsals, all the prep work, all the editing, and then at the very last second they pull out of the show, I've had that happen each show, so now I know how to plan for it, and know how to prepare, you know, producers for it. But yeah, that, that's always surprising to me. Michael Hingson  54:34 It's an adventure, isn't it? Speaker 1  54:35 Sure is. Yeah, gotta sing quickly on your feet. Michael Hingson  54:39 Yeah, you definitely have to do that. Tell us a little bit about Socroc, the company you and your brother formed, and what that's all about. Speaker 1  54:47 Sure, well, my brother was a professional soccer player, and he, when he retired, he moved to Manhattan, thinking he was going to be an actor, and as most actors. Oh, they need a second job to support themselves. Yeah, so became a personal trainer, and he was personal training, and some of his clients got word that he'd been a professional soccer player, and they begged him, they're like, can you teach our kids soccer? So it kind of happened by accident, and just a few balls and cones in Central Park, teaching soccer to little kids, and over the years it's grown and grown and grown and grown. We're in our like 20th year, and so during it was like maybe five years ago, he, it just got out of hand, like it was getting too big, and he needed help, and that was when I had gone through the divorce, and I like explained I'd been in business before, and I wanted a change, so he offered me, you know, a position to come and help him and run, so I run the business side of the soccer, and he runs the soccer side, and we're all throughout Manhattan, we, we do public classes in the parks and playgrounds, and then, like, now in the winter time, we rent space all around the city, and then we also partner with private schools and public schools throughout the city, and we do birthday parties and personal training, and we're starting a kids of all abilities program, and that's that's like our new initiative right now, and and then the spring we're expanding into actually into basketball too, BB Rock, we're calling Michael Hingson  56:29 it. Oh, that's cool. Well, you're doing a lot of different things, you speak, you're an author, you're an educator. We haven't talked about, I guess it's you work with Speaker 1  56:39 SUNY. I teach at the City University of New York, which is part of SUNY, and that work I really love. Yeah, Michael Hingson  56:47 tell, tell me about that. Then, Speaker 1  56:49 so they have an initiative, it's through the Manhattan Educational Opportunity Center, and SUNY provides grants for adult students returning who need to get their high school epilepticy, their GED. So I teach writing the writing section of the GED, and this I - these are the students I like the most, and I've taught at all levels, from freshman comp all the way up to graduate level MFA, and it's the GED adult student that I enjoy the most. So, I'll, when I, when I'm done with you, I actually will zoom up to Harlem, and I'll be teaching GED time tonight. Michael Hingson  57:35 Okay. Well, you're doing all of these different things. How do you keep yourself grounded, and how do you keep the creative juices going? Speaker 1  57:44 Well, that can sometimes be a challenge. Michael Hingson  57:46 I bet, Speaker 1  57:47 but I do. I exercise. That's one thing I really, I love to exercise, and I'm getting better at just taking time for myself, but I also feel like what I do isn't work, like I enjoy what I do, so I always try to bring a sense of gratitude to each day in that way. Michael Hingson  58:13 Yeah, well, and taking time for yourself is is important to do, and and now you have a teacup poodle to share it with, and I'll bet you guys have some interesting conversations. Speaker 1  58:26 Yeah, we sure do. She's a cutie, she's just lying on the little chair right over here. Michael Hingson  58:33 Yeah, my, my dog is over here on his bed, so he, he, he monitors me. Speaker 1  58:41 Yeah, she's been really good, because sometimes when I'm on the Zoom like this, she, she'll start to bark. She doesn't like paying attention to somebody else. Michael Hingson  58:48 Well, one of these days we'll have to end up in Manhattan and come and meet her. Speaker 1  58:54 That sounds Michael Hingson  58:55 be kind of fun. Speaker 1  58:57 That sure would. Michael Hingson  58:58 Well, so tell me, what's next for you? What do you envision going forward from here? Speaker 1  59:04 Well, my hope is actually, I would love, because there have so much fodder now, all these different stories, love stories. My hope is to launch a podcast, a Love Notes podcast that would feature the storyteller and their story, and then I would do an interview of the story behind the story, because people always have questions. They'll hear a story, or they'll read the story, and it's really short. It's like 700 or 1000 words, and they'll always want to know, like, well, what happened to them, or how did that end up. So I envisioned this podcast of love notes, real stories by real people about real love, and that would be like the the meat of it, and then they're at the end of each one, there'd be like a love letter, and people could write love letters that would be shared on the podcast, and tell Michael Hingson  59:55 me, Speaker 1  59:56 you know, like, dear Michael, this is why I love you, and then it would be a. Letter, so that's that's I'd like to see more satellite cities. I'd like to get the next edition of the book out, and then launch the podcast by Trifecta. Michael Hingson  1:00:13 Lots going on, needless to say. Well, if people want to reach out to you, talk about creating their own love notes, or as you said, you'd love to find people who want to help produce in various cities. How do they do that? Speaker 1  1:00:27 Well, probably the easiest thing to do is first, if they just want to learn more about the project in general, would just be to check out the website, and that's at www dot Love Notes worldwide.com and from there, then you can, you can get a hold of me, but I'll give my email address also, it's Heather at Heather Christy, C H R I s t i e books.com so either just hit the website or send me an email directly, and I, yeah, I'd love to talk to anybody who's got a story they want to share, or anyone who's thinking like maybe they'd love to bring a love notes to their community. Michael Hingson  1:01:19 Cool. Well, I hope people will reach out and that you'll get lots of interest from our podcast. It's a, it's a fun thing, and I hope that people will respond. So, all of you out there, email Heather. Speaker 1  1:01:34 That sounds great. And my last little plug: if anybody would love to watch the Love Notes show on January, february 14 for Valentine's Day. You can find that information on the website too. Michael Hingson  1:01:48 What I'm trying to remember, what day of the week february 14 is going to be in 2026 Speaker 1  1:01:53 It's a Michael Hingson  1:01:54 Saturday, great day to Speaker 1  1:01:57 do it. So you can watch it, and actually the live stream will stay live for a week, so if you're not able to watch it that night, you can watch it during the week. Michael Hingson  1:02:05 Oh, cool. Well, I hope people will do that, and I want to thank you for being here. But I want to thank all of you out there for being a part of this today. Heather has had a lot of interesting things to say, and I hope that you'll help her and help yourself by helping her to be more successful. I'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com that's M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com We'd love it and would greatly appreciate it if wherever you are listening or watching the podcast, if you'll give us a five star review, but also, or a rating, but also give us a review. We love reviews, we appreciate reviews, and we really value all the people who have done it so far, and we ask that you do it again, or you do it for the first time. So, please let us know what you think by writing reviews. If you know anyone who ought to be a guest, we'd love it if you'd let us know. Heather, you as well. Anyone that you think ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, we would really love to be introduced. My belief is everyone has stories to tell, so don't be shy. We'd love to hear from you. But Heather, once again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Speaker 1  1:03:26 Thank you so much, Michael. It's been so much fun to talk to you this afternoon. Michael Hingson  1:03:32 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others each week. I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started, 1:04:24 I.

Mental illness touches nearly every family, yet it remains one of the least understood and least supported health challenges we face. In this episode, I sit down with Marvin Ross, a medical writer, publisher, and mental health advocate whose work was shaped by his son's diagnosis of schizophrenia nearly 30 years ago. Marvin shares why mental illness remains one of the most misunderstood and underfunded health challenges in North America, how stigma and lack of treatment contribute to homelessness, and what countries across Europe are doing differently. We also explore mental health literacy, addiction recovery, public policy, the role of families in treatment, and why education remains one of the strongest tools for change. Along the way, Marvin reflects on his publishing journey, the books that have made an impact, and why understanding mental illness is essential if we want to build a more compassionate and effective Highlights: 01:41 - Learn how Marvin's son's schizophrenia diagnosis changed his life's work. 09:16 - Discover why mental illness is often treated differently than other illnesses. 17:31 - Understand the link between mental illness, homelessness, and lack of care. 19:52 - Learn what Europe is doing differently to support mental health. 25:33 - Hear why mental health literacy needs to improve. 41:12 - Explore the connection between homelessness, addiction, and untreated mental illness. About the Guest: I am a medical writer/publisher/ mental illness advocate with a background in research and planning. I began part time in the late 1970's and published a number of books (technical , humour and medical for lay audiences). Thanks to circumstances, I was able to focus full time on freelance medical writing for a wide array of clients. In the late 1990's, my son developed schizophrenia and I found myself writing about that stigmatizing malady and advocating for improved services. I became active in the Schizophrenia Society of Ontario and am now on the board of the Family Alliance on Severe Mental Illnesses. In 2008, my company Bridgeross Communications, began publishing books mainly on serious mental illnesses beginning with my own book Schizophrenia Medicine's Mystery Society's Shame. It received vary positive endorsements from readers and can found in over 300 libraries worldwide. As a result, people began contacting me with their own book ideas and I ended up adding another 10 titles by people with schizophrenia or family members recounting their experiences. The first two were by a mother of a daughter with schizophrenia in Vancouver which came out in 2010 and is still selling with positive recommendations in Canada, the US and Europe. The other was by a woman with schizophrenia also in Vancouver who, today, is a fine artist, and a recipient of the Courage to Come Back Award and a Face of Mental Illness in Canada. Topics covered in the other books mostly still selling deal with a neuroscientist with schizophrenia, a woman married to a man who developed schizophrenia, an African-American woman with schizophrenia written with her daughter on how they coped, a large Irish-American family with a brother with schizophrenia who also developed terminal cancer and a PhD psychologist in Tennessee who partly got through college while living in her car. I also wrote a regular column for Huffington Post and then for the past 14 years, my own blog which I write with a psychiatrist. Ways to connect with Marvin: Website https://bridgeross.com/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/marvin.ross.731 Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/marvinross/ Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBF5XSsysn8HLVbKy3APJJw And see this trailer which might enhance your show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4loR-bAKbuQ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when fear stops being something to avoid and becomes something you learn from? I sit down with futurist designer and Purple Compass founder Donna Dupont for a thoughtful conversation about strategic foresight, resilience, change, and the patterns that shape our future. Donna shares how her experiences in healthcare, public policy, and emergency management during the SARS crisis pushed her toward futures thinking and helping organizations prepare for uncertainty before disruption strikes. Together, we explore why people resist change, how fear can either limit or guide us, and why curiosity may be one of the most important skills we can develop. You will hear insights on business continuity, leadership, personal growth, future thinking, and how intentional choices can help all of us create a more unstoppable future. Highlights: 05:02 - Discover how working through the SARS crisis revealed the hidden gaps between healthcare systems and emergency response. 12:26 - Learn why asking “what if” can build resilience without falling into fear-driven thinking. 17:11 - Explore how curiosity and wider perspectives help people navigate rapid change and uncertainty. 26:09 - Understand why people resist change even while living in a world that is constantly shifting. 38:26 - Hear what futurists actually do and why strategic foresight is about patterns, not predictions. 58:35 - Discover how intentional choices can interrupt old patterns and help shape a different future. About the Guest: Donna Dupont, is an award-winning designer, futurist, and the Founder of Purple Compass. With over 25 years of experience collaborating with leaders in healthcare, public safety, defense, and security, she helps organizations develop future literacy skills to navigate uncertainty and lead change in today's complex world. Donna integrates theory and practice to enhance anticipatory and adaptive capabilities, strategic intelligence, and agility, driving impactful future policy and strategic planning. A former healthcare professional, provincial policy advisor, and emergency manager, Donna is deeply passionate about applying foresight to strengthen decision-making, mitigate future risks, and enhance preparedness and adaptive capacity. Her work empowers organizations to seize opportunities for innovation, transformation, and resilience. Donna's unique approach combines systems thinking and strategic foresight, leveraging both quantitative and qualitative insights to identify patterns and anticipate change over time. Her extensive portfolio includes advancing insights on climate-risk, international development, environmental and civil security, health and human security, and national defense. Recognized for her exceptional achievements, Donna has received seven government awards for excellence in policy, strategy, and partner relations. Her acclaimed futures research, Anticipation in Emergency Management (2020), earned awards from the Canadian Defence and Security Network and the Association of Professional Futurists. Donna holds a Master of Design in Strategic Foresight & Innovation from OCAD University. Ways to connect with Donna: https://www.purplecompass.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/donna-dupont/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Behind every glamorous photo shoot is a world most people never see. I sit down with Marie P. Anderson, the woman who helped launch the career of Cindy Crawford, for a raw conversation about survival, resilience, and what it really takes to make it in the modeling industry. Marie shares how childhood trauma, domestic violence, addiction, and years of navigating abuse inside fashion shaped her mission to create safer opportunities for models. We also explore martial arts, faith, entrepreneurship, financial discipline, and why she believes human connection and soul can never truly be replaced by AI. It's an honest look at reinvention, perseverance, and building an unstoppable mindset through some of life's hardest experiences. Highlights: ·      01:50 – Growing up around NASA and fashion sparked Marie's creative drive. ·      07:55 – Leaving an abusive marriage became the start of Marie's reinvention. ·      15:02 – AI and social media are changing the future of modeling. ·      22:45 – Martial arts helped Marie shift from victim to warrior. ·      30:28 – Marie explains why she left Elite to protect models. ·      48:26 – Why aspiring models should never give away their power too quickly. About the Guest: Marie P. Anderson is a model agent, author, speaker, and survivor who helped shape the modern modeling industry that we know today - while fighting private battles most never saw. Marie was drawn to fashion at a young age and designed a personal clothing line labeled Minnie. But the girl who dressed her dolls was born into trauma, instability, and loss. Despite these challenges, she graduated high school, began working in photography studios, and eventually found her calling in scouting, developing, and managing models. Marie rose to prominence as the Vice President of Elite Model Management Chicago, where she launched the career of supermodel Cindy Crawford and represented hundreds of top-tier models throughout the 1980s and '90s. But Marie's legacy extends far beyond the names she helped make famous. She founded Aria Model & Talent with a clear mission to redefine industry standards. In just a few years, the agency became a multimillion-dollar success rooted in integrity, mentorship, and dignity—principles often missing from fashion's fast-paced world. A second-degree black belt in Shidokan Karate and longtime mental health advocate, Marie spent the last four decades mentoring young talent on how to not only succeed in fashion but how to survive it. She is the author of two internationally published modeling guides and the creator and producer of The Wizard of Editorial, an educational program. Today she runs a virtual coaching platform called Boss Babe Models, which uniquely paired personal empowerment with practical business insights. Most recently, Marie has been on the journey of healing from Breast Implant Illness (BII), enduring medical gaslighting, ambiguous tests, and the uphill journey of self-advocacy in a healthcare system that often fails women. As with every other struggle she's overcome, she's again channeling that experience into education—not just for herself but for others. Marie continues to write, coach, and speak about the intersection of trauma, identity, and transformation—with wit, humor, and unshakable integrity. She is currently in development on her memoir, as well as a third edition of her successful modeling guide, updated for the new era of social media, mental health advocacy, and industry reform. Ways to connect with Maria: Official Website Instagram Facebook Youtube Threads SubstackLinkedIn Boss Babe Models Boss Babe Models Instagram Boss Babe Models Facebook Boss Babe Models Youtube About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when the way you grow up teaches you to see the world through empathy, inclusion, and connection? In this heartfelt conversation, I talk with Maria Gallucci about being raised by deaf parents, growing up as a CODA, and how those experiences shaped her life, business, and advocacy work. Maria shares powerful lessons about communication, bullying, accessibility, ASL, LGBTQ inclusion, and why small acts of kindness can change someone's life. You'll also hear how her book Raised in Silence became an Amazon bestseller and why she believes connection matters more than labels. Highlights: · 00:54 - Learn how growing up with deaf parents shaped Maria's view of empathy and inclusion. · 04:00 - Hear how bullying inspired Maria to advocate for acceptance and accessibility. · 15:15 - Discover how helping her parents with real estate closings shaped her career path. · 20:06 - Learn what finally pushed Maria to publish Raised in Silence after 15 years. · 35:06 - Hear why being fully present can make people feel seen and valued. · 46:55 - Discover why human connection still matters more than technology. About the Guest: Maria Gallucci – Award-Winning Colorado REALTOR®, Advocate & Author Maria Gallucci is a multi-award-winning Colorado real estate broker, author, and lifelong advocate for inclusive communication and accessible housing. With over 30 years of experience, Maria specializes in working with the Deaf, Hard of Hearing, and LGBTQ+ communities, as well as builders, investors, and families across Denver, Colorado Springs, Northern and Southern Colorado, the Western Slope and Nationwide. She is the founder of Uptown Realty Group and Gallucci Homes, and is consistently ranked among the top 1.5% of REALTORS® nationwide. Maria is also a top-producing agent at Compass Real Estate. A Personal Mission Rooted in Inclusion As a CODA (Child of Deaf Adults), Maria learned American Sign Language (ASL) before English. At just 12 years old, she helped her parents purchase their first home, serving as an unofficial interpreter. This pivotal experience shaped her mission: to ensure that clients from underrepresented communities are seen, heard, and respected—especially in the home buying and selling process. Maria founded: ASL @ Compass , an affinity group for ASL-fluent agents ASL Realty , a national platform connecting Deaf and Hard of Hearing clients with ASL-communicating REALTORS® Her motto, "Just Try," encourages everyone to make meaningful connections, even across communication differences. Expertise Across All Colorado Real Estate Markets Maria's depth of knowledge spans: Residential real estate across Denver Metro, Colorado Springs, Northern/Southern Colorado and Nationwide New construction, Single Family homes, Land, Condos, townhomes, and duplex developments Real estate investment opportunities Builder marketing and sales strategy Her clients trust her ability to negotiate, design winning strategies, and execute seamless transactions that are profitable and low-stress. A Community Advocate and Author Outside of real estate, Maria serves on the boards of: Rocky Mountain Deaf School DOVE (Deaf Overcoming Violence through Empowerment) Colorado Association of the Deaf (CAD) She is also the author of Raised in Silence, a memoir and guide to bridging communication gaps — a love letter to the Deaf community that raised her. Awards & Recognition Top 1% of Colorado REALTORS® Top 1.5% REALTORS® Nationally 5280 Magazine Double Black Diamond Award Real Trends / Top 100 Agents in America Tom Ferry / Best Real Estate Agent in America Outstanding Women in Business Five Star Real Estate Agent 5280 Five Star Professional Award Denver Metro REALTOR® Association Diamond Excellence Award South Metro REALTOR® Association 5-Carat Diamond Circle Club Award Whether you're looking to buy, sell, invest, or build in Colorado, Maria Gallucci is the inclusive, experienced, and results-driven REALTOR® to guide you every step of the way. Ways to connect with Maria: maria@galluccihomes.com https://www.youtube.com/@galluccihomes https://www.facebook.com/TopASLRealtor https://www.instagram.com/galluccihomes/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-gallucci-18725b9/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Most people fear getting older, but Gary Cole believes aging can become one of the happiest and healthiest stages of life. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, Gary and I explore what it really means to age well through purpose, relationships, movement, optimism, and daily lifestyle choices. Gary shares lessons from the Blue Zones, the science behind longevity, and why mindset matters more than most people realize. You will hear practical insights on healthy sleep, nutrition, exercise, happiness, spirituality, and how to create a life filled with meaning at any age. Highlights: · 00:10:22 - Learn why society fears aging and how mindset changes the way we experience getting older. · 00:18:24 - Discover how daily lifestyle choices impact aging more than genetics. · 00:20:40 - Hear why older years can become some of the happiest stages of life. · 00:31:07 - Learn why purpose and meaningful routines matter after retirement. · 00:48:53 - Discover the Blue Zone habits linked to longer, healthier, and happier lives. · 01:00:35 - Hear Gary's top five habits for living a healthy, active, and fulfilling life. About the Guest: Garry is a Baby Boomer with a passion for aging well, which he describes as a life of health, happiness and longevity. Garry lives in Michigan with his wife Pam, their cat, Simba, and their Samoyed dog, Amara. A graduate of The University of Michigan he is a big Wolverine fan. Although he did not win his March Madness Pool, he is very happy with the final outcome. Go Blue. When he is not cheering on the Wolverines, he enjoys travel, reading, and living vicariously through his two recently adulted children. The oldest, Parker, will graduate from Medical School in May and start his residency at Rutgers University in July. His daughter, Paulina, is living her best life in Chicago, working in the financial services industry and enjoying everything the city offers. After spending three years researching the topic of aging he decided to share what he learned. His first book, "Are We Old Yet?", was published in 2024 and became a best seller in the Aging category. Garry continues his research and publishes blogs on his website and speaks on topics related to aging. As he likes to say, most of us have the privilege to age, it is up to us to do it well. Ways to connect with Gary: Website, https://www.garrycole.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61551415109016 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@GarryCole-g2r LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garrycole/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Most people spend their lives reacting to change. Rick Yvanovich believes the real goal is to shape it. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Rick to explore entrepreneurship, coaching, fear, leadership, and the mindset shifts that help people grow through uncertainty. From failing to get into university to building businesses across Asia and mentoring leaders around the world, Rick shares lessons on resilience, lifelong learning, balanced fulfillment, and why asking for help is often the key to lasting success. You will hear practical insights on self-discovery, business growth, personal development, and learning how to trust yourself in a rapidly changing world. Highlights: · 00:38 - Learn how to become an architect of change instead of reacting to life. · 05:20 - Discover why trusting your inner voice matters. · 09:17 - Hear how fear can become a tool instead of a barrier. · 20:54 - Understand the difference between coaching and mentoring. · 30:14 - Learn what balanced fulfillment really means. · 56:04 - Explore why agility matters in business and life. About the Guest: Rick is a true master of the business coaching craft, known for his proven ability to help companies and individuals achieve unprecedented levels of success. With a deep understanding of both business strategy and human potential, he skillfully combines practical experience with transformative coaching interventions. His systematic approach and unwavering commitment to empowering people allow him to translate vision into actionable steps that drive measurable results and sustainable growth. At the heart of Rick's work lies a simple yet powerful mission — to inspire and empower humans for balanced fulfillment. He believes success should not come at the expense of well-being and that true leadership is about aligning purpose, passion, and performance. This philosophy forms the cornerstone of his coaching practice, enabling his clients to achieve not just professional success, but personal balance and fulfillment as well. Ways to connect with Rick: https://www.facebook.com/TRGInternational/https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickyvanovich/https://www.instagram.com/RICKYVANOVICH2/https://www.youtube.com/@RickYvanovichhttps://www.youtube.com/@trginternational3812  About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when you leave behind security, move across countries with almost no plan, and trust that life will somehow work out? I talk with stand-up comic and creative entrepreneur Sadia Carone about her wild path from Ohio to Paris, New York, Brazil, Los Angeles, and Las Vegas. Sadia shares how she walked away from a difficult family life, built careers in software testing and entertainment, survived 9/11 in New York, took huge risks to chase comedy and acting, and learned how to handle rejection, failure, and negative people without losing herself. You will hear honest lessons about resilience, creativity, career pivots, faith, comedy, and why success is rarely instant. Highlights: 00:01:32 – How music helped Sadia teach English in Paris. 00:10:32 – Why she left tech to pursue comedy and acting. 00:14:45 – What it was like living in New York during 9/11. 00:27:07 – Why she moved to Las Vegas with no real plan. 00:35:41 – How faith helped her through major setbacks. 00:51:21 – Why creative careers take patience and preparation. About the Guest: SADIA CARONE was born in the Midwest and has since lived in Paris, France and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. She currently lives in Las Vegas, Nevada where she regularly performs stand-up comedy. Sadia was brought up to choose "the safe path" and she graduated from the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia with a BA English and a BA in French. She wanted to go to music school  -- but at the time, that was out of the question ( = her parents forbid it). Well her parents were wrong! Sadia took voice lessons and started writing songs. Atlantic Records was going to sign her -- then 9/11 happened and both the record executives and her music producer had other things to deal with.  And now Sadia has a comedy album! She performs her original songs on stage! Along the way, she got her SAG card (national actors' union) and earlier this year, she taught a stand-up comedy workshop in Reno, Nevada for the SAG Conservatory! Sadia's approach to life is "follow your heart" and "carefully assess the risks". In other words -- timing is everything! Do your research. Make informed decisions. Then when the time is right -- take that leap of faith! Sadia's career highlights include   * IT manager for the USPTO * software tester for the National Red Cross HQ * TEDx Speaker * Host, Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy Club * Karaoke DJ at Vegas #1 karaoke spot * Tour Guide, Big Bus Las Vegas * Yellow M&M, The M&M Store in Las Vegas * Apartment Building Manager, West Hollywood / Northern Hollywood / Studio City, California  * Official SongBird and Queen of Culture and Creativity, Shitshow Creative * Founder, Music for Emotions which received a grant from SEED Vegas. Sadia speaks English natively, fluent French and Portuguese, business-level Spanish, intermediate Hindi/Urdu and bits of Russian and Arabic. Ways to connect with Sadia: LinkedIn  www.linkedin.com/in/sadiacarone Instagram @sadiacarone About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when someone who teaches healing suddenly must fight for her own? Dr. Joi Lewis joins me for a powerful conversation about surviving a massive stroke, rebuilding life through radical self-care, and learning how community, meditation, faith, and curiosity can help people heal. Raised in East St. Louis, Joi shares how her upbringing shaped her deep belief in connection, public service, and emotional liberation. You'll hear how she moved from higher education leadership into healing justice work, why she believes isolation is dangerous, and how practices like mindfulness, conscious movement, and meditation became critical tools during her recovery. This conversation explores disability, resilience, trust, healing, and what it really means to live with an unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:59 How community shaped her mindset growing up in East St. Louis. 08:47 Surviving a massive stroke and adapting to disability. 15:14 Why radical self-care is essential for healing. 21:16 How faith and music support her recovery journey. 35:35 The four parts of the Orange Method for healing. 50:19 How an “energy bank” helps restore emotional health. About the Guest: "Dr. Joi” Lewis is CEO of Joi Unlimited (www.drjoilewis.com) and Founder of The Healing Justice Foundation (www.healingjusticefoundation.org). Joi Unlimited is a crisis, conflict, and change management firm specializing in transformation of systems and self for collective and individual liberation. The Healing Justice Foundation's mission is to reclaim the inherent dignity, brilliance, and humanity of all Black people. Dr. Joi (as many fondly call her) is known locally, nationally, and globally as a facilitator of liberation, radical self-care expert, and community healer. What that means is she helps individuals, institutions, and communities heal from oppression-induced historic and present day trauma, using Healing Justice (Radical Self-Care + Social Justice) as an on ramp to reclaim our own humanity and each others'. Dr. Joi is the author of Healing: The Act of Radical Self-Care, based on her transformative process the Orange Method (OM) of Healing Justice, and of the meditation journal and affirmation deck May the Revolution Be Healing. She is a social entrepreneur and a highly sought-after speaker and executive coach. Dr. Joi inspires us to hold heartbreak and “joy” because they run from the same faucet. Her work is deeply informed by growing up in East St. Louis, Illinois. Dr. Joi completed her doctoral work at the University of Pennsylvania, conducted research in South Africa, had a 20+ year career on college campuses as Dean, Faculty, Vice President and Chief Diversity Officer. She is an unapologetic joy instigator, a certified kemetic and hot vinyasa yoga teacher, a facilitator of meditation and mindfulness and a food prep pro, who lives in St. Paul, Minnesota. In July of 2024, Dr. Joi survived a massive stroke and has recommitted to the practices of the Orange Method as she prioritizes her own radical self care. Dr. Joi is on a mission to “put healing in the hands of anyone, anywhere.” Ways to connect with Joi: https://www.joiunlimited.com/ https://www.healingjusticefoundation.org/ Facebook: Dr Joi Lewis Instagram: @drjoi LinkedIn: Dr Joi Lewis About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What if the thing you struggle with most could become your greatest strength? In this episode, I sit down with Dennis Szymanski, a semiconductor engineer who has lived with a stutter his entire life and learned to manage it through a powerful mix of science, self-awareness, and holistic living. Dennis shares how his journey through speech therapy, stress management, and personal growth shaped both his mindset and his career in nanoscale engineering and compound semiconductors. You will hear how early support, resilience, and curiosity helped him move from struggling to speak to confidently presenting, creating, and even writing a children's book. I believe you will find this conversation inspiring as it shows how challenges can guide you toward purpose, clarity, and an unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:10 Learn how early support and environment shape confidence and long term growth 09:43 Understand what it means to live with a stutter and manage it daily 11:10 Discover why the root cause of stuttering is still not fully understood 35:07 Learn how speech therapy has shifted toward treating the whole person 47:32 Understand how stress directly affects speech and performance 56:01 Discover how creativity and purpose come together through writing and innovation About the Guest: Hello everyone! My name is Dennis Szymanski, and I was born and raised on Long Island, New York. Over the course of my life, I have moved 11 times up and down the East Coast of the U.S., meeting many people and having amazing experiences, all the while working on my relationship with my stutter. I currently embrace my inner beach bum and reside in a sleepy North Carolina beach town with my girlfriend Samantha and Lennie the turtle. I have spent the better part of my academic and professional career in the semiconductor industry. I hold a Ph.D. in Materials Science and Engineering from North Carolina State University and currently work as a Product Engineer for a U.K. semiconductor manufacturing firm. In my personal life I enjoy playing disc golf, reading, playing the trumpet, yoga, entrepreneurship, public speaking, and any water sport you can imagine. The beach has always been, and forever will be, my home, my place of peace and solitude, a place to "Be As You Are". As a stutterer, I have practiced the physical art of communication ever since I have been able to talk. As a trumpet player, I understand the power of controlled breath. As an Engineer, I always strive to dig deeper. As a communicator, I believe it is all about connecting with people. As a human being, I endeavor to live a holistic life, where each facet compliments the others. My stutter made me a better engineer, just like my understanding of controlled breath as a trumpet player has made me a better communicator. I find myself to be a lifelong learner, believing that there is room for constant improvement even if, somewhat ironically, the area for necessary improvement is my (in)ability to rest and recharge. I love to travel and take much of my inspiration from the world around me. A change of scenery, pace, environment, and/or people is almost always welcomed in my life. No matter if I am out on the surfboard, generating an engineer data sheet, or giving a talk on stage, I live my life by once simple sentence: “It is all about the people.” Ways to connect with Dennis: website link is www.drdennyeddie.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisszymanski/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drdennyeddie Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdennyeddie/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dennis.szymanski.35 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host. Michael hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities, this podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, howdy, once again, everyone and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. It is a wonderful time here. We're recording this just a couple of days before Thanksgiving, and I especially give thanks for the fact that I get to join all of you and do these podcasts. So I want to thank you all for being here, and I want to thank our guest, Dennis Edward Szymanski, we're going to stick with Dennis, but we really appreciate you being here. And Dennis is involved with semiconductors. He lives life to the fullest. We were just talking before we started about his turtle. Lenny the turtle, he can he can talk about that if he wishes. And he also has some other interesting things that I'm looking forward to chatting about since he brought it up, and that is that he is, among other things, or he was, a stutterer, and so he lives with his stutter. He now lives in North Carolina on a beach, so it's his inner beach bum that he is supporting anyway. Dennis, without all without going in any much more detail about any of this, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here, Dennis Szymanski  02:15 Michael, not just because it's Thanksgiving. I am very grateful and thankful to be here with you, to have met you, as well as to be here with all the guests on unstoppable mindset and all the listeners to us, whether you're watching listening, it's great to be here and happy to have this great discussion here with you today. Michael Hingson  02:36 Well, we're glad you're here, and this will I'm looking forward to it. This will be a lot of fun. Why don't we start with kind of the early Dennis. I don't always start that way. Start with kind of the early growing up person, and let's go from there. Dennis Szymanski  02:50 Of course, I think a good place to start a lot of the time is the beginning. So I I'm a New Yorker, born and raised on Long Island to two very loving parents who have been supportive throughout all of my endeavors, from supporting me and my stuttering journey to encouraging me to pursue other outlets like music, encouraging me to stick to my academics and and even supporting my love of pets, which, as you alluded to, I have a turtle right now. Her name is Lenny, but she she is one of many dogs, lizards, hamsters, ferrets, chinchillas, birds. We've had a lot of pets growing up, and you know that that has informed, actually a lot of my current worldview, but we can, we can get to that later. Michael Hingson  03:45 What does your girlfriend think about all that? Dennis Szymanski  03:48 Well, my girlfriend is a four legged pet woman herself staying outside of tanks. That's, that's one of her remits. So Lenny, we got to realize our shared dream, me, my girlfriend, and Lenny of getting Lenny out of the house, out of the tank and into a pond in the backyard of my home here on the coast of North Carolina. So we're all happy. It's, it's been a, it's been an amazing summer. They are getting us all out of the house. So that's a good thing. You know, she's she's very supportive of of Lenny. We, we had two dogs together. Unfortunately, they were old and have since passed on. But we're planning to get some some, some new four legged friends down the line. And we are even in the process of courting, adopting a stray cat that is hanging around our our neighborhood. So it's a nice it's a nice middle ground there not as much responsibility as a dog, you know, a stray cat, but still the potential for the companionship and for the routine and for taking care of something that I know we. Both miss being absent dogs. Not that Lenny doesn't take taking care of it's just a different companion, yeah, different kind of pet Michael Hingson  05:10 we we have my guide dog, Alamo, and as listeners know, we also have stitch, the cat, who will be 16. We think in January, we rescued her. We think at about the age of five, family didn't want her, and they said, Take her to the pound. And we said, No, we'll find her a home. And along the way, I happened to ask what the cat's name was, and they told me that the cat's name was stitch. And I knew this cat wasn't going to go anywhere, since Karen had been a professional quilter since 1994 so quilters aren't going to give up an animal named stitch. Dennis Szymanski  05:44 No, too, too many coincidences there to just not, not go ahead with stitch. Yeah, so, Michael Hingson  05:53 so stitch is with us. Dennis Szymanski  05:55 We, we, we think a very similar way all the pets that I had, I actually never had a cat that was my own, just parents were allergic. Sister was allergic, things like this. Brother was allergic. But when our most recent dog passed, we noticed that this cat started coming around at a very at only a few weeks before he passed. So we think that they had a little bit of a conversation to say that, you know, a little changing of the guard, a proper handoff, if, if you will. So we're looking forward to having our tuxedo cat, which we named very appropriately and affectionately tuxy. We're unsure if it's a boy or a girl, yet. So we went with tuxi butcher, straying back from, from, from the original topic, coming back on, yes, the stray cat pun was somewhat intended. I get it born and raised, Long Island, New York. I left there when I was 17 out of high school to pursue my undergraduate degree in engineering, I stepping back a little bit. My father's a insurance agent, but a serial entrepreneur. He cut his teeth in the insurance industry, but now is heavily involved in a cybersecurity startup. So a man who wears many hats, and my mother is in it. So my first desk job, if you will, was in computers, and that kind of led me down the path of some sort of engineering related to computers. So I went up to the colleges of nanoscale science and engineering up in Albany, New York, for those familiar with the SUNY system, it's a State University in New York up in Albany, where I did four years there, and I studied nano scale engineering, which is a fancy way to say material science, with a focus in semiconductors, which led me to take my first job in industry while I was actually still getting my undergraduate degree, which bolstered my decision to continue on down here to North Carolina. I actually took my first step down in Raleigh as a PhD candidate at NC State, where I studied material science and engineering as well. And two things I've always you know, kept close is the love of business as it relates to technology. So I have a minor in business from my time in undergrad, as well as I took several MBA courses and got a technology Entrepreneurship Certificate from from NC State. So I take the business and the technology. I've married those into a career here as a product engineer for a compound semiconductor manufacturer, all of which we can get into a little bit more. But the other love that I keep close and have recently had a renaissance in my life, is my love of music. I was actually faced with a choice of music or engineering back when a lot of us started to apply to college or university at that time in their life, in high school, and I chose the engineering route, but but always kept the love of music. It was my first paying job, playing in a gig, playing gigs in bars when I was younger and right now I actually, like I said, I'm having a renaissance. I took a little bit of a hiatus while life got busy in grad school and getting my feet under me in the corporate world, taking my first job, but learned to to understand the need, the need that my brain, you know, to have that left brain, right brain, creative mind, logical mind flexed, and just to to have the time to myself. It's something that I enjoy, something that I've enjoyed since I'm eight years old. And, you know, I'm happy to keep continuing it. And I want to finish the opening monolog here, if you will. With. With something you said that I'm a lifelong stutterer, and ever since I opened my mouth, I can remember having disfluent speech, and I have to say that the biggest support that my parents ever gave me was encouraging me, as well as helping me at a very young age start in speech therapy, I I have met so many people in my life that Dennis Szymanski  10:32 did not have supporting parents or a supporting situation, and to To see that impact and that thread be traced throughout my life, and, you know, and juxtaposing it to other people's lives, it really makes a difference to have that supporting environment, that belief, because, you know, you said it, I live with the stutter Every day. It's very well managed. Now in my life, there was a time where I could not finish a sentence when I was in elementary school, early middle school, without having a stutter. But now I've learned through speech techniques, living my life in a relatively holistic way, how stress relates to my stutter and so many other things that I can manage it a lot better. But as my fellow stuttering people out there that might be listening, you always live with it. You know you're you're never, quote, unquote, cured. You're always having that stutter, managing it, whether it's overtly or covertly, it's always there. But very happy to get into all of that and more here with with you Michael, as as we kick off the episode. Michael Hingson  11:54 So what? What causes stuttering? Do we really know Dennis Szymanski  11:59 that's what, in part, is so fascinating is that we can't really pinpoint it, whereas to say this part of the brain for sure is, you know, impacting this part of your vocal cord in this way. And if we get in there and treat it however way it's going to go away there, of course, is ideas that you know certain parts of your brain have more of an impact or influence, and that it does directly relate to your vocal cords, because, at least from my stutter, how It works, and how I could, you know, most effectively explain it is my vocal cords simply lock up. So normal vocal cord operation, it's like a string on a violin, right, or string on a guitar. If you pluck it, it resonates, vibrates, makes sound. Your vocal cords work just the same, but their mechanism of quote, unquote, plucking is the air that you breathe. So if they lock up, you don't have vibration, you don't have sound, you don't have speech. And what's interesting is that if you were to put your your your ear or your hand to my mouth during a stuttering episode, there's still air flow like there's still air leaving my mouth, just as it does during fluent speech, but there's just no action and something else that is very interesting about the You know, my my stutter, and I've talked to other stutterers that have a similar experience, is that we know what we want to say. It's all upstairs. It's all formulated. It's just the physical blocking of the vocal cord, at least in my case and I, I make the, you know, the I make it important to say my case, because there is very different manifestations of stuttering, stammering, how one might block, how one might repeat a word. What are different triggers, etc. So in a nutshell, we don't really know which is why there's so many different theories, methodologies of treatment, how to cope, deal with, treat the the stud itself. Michael Hingson  14:32 Yeah, it's, it's fascinating, and I appreciate you giving us that explanation of it. It is something that I think is very important to point out that one of the things you mentioned is extremely crucial. Your parents were supportive. They helped you. My parents did the same thing when it was discovered that I was blind. Yeah, and a number of parents have really bought into helping their children recognize they can do whatever they choose and that they can deal with so many different issues. And oftentimes we also hear about parents who don't support some people succeed in spite of it, and some do not. But it's so important to really know that we, some of us, have parents who really help and and will do anything that they can to assist us in making life better for us Dennis Szymanski  15:41 and when we first got connected, and then afterwards, doing more listening to your talks, and other episodes of unstoppable mindset, I had learned that your parents were were supportive as well, and that made a mental note, as a matter of fact, to bring this up here in this talk, because I could not agree more the importance of support of your parents, especially as a young child, that's where everything starts. But then even as we grow our friends, you know, larger family and the networks that that that we keep is are so important to our development success as individuals. Michael Hingson  16:24 Yeah, so your parents are still with us. Dennis Szymanski  16:28 They both. Are they both? Are they divorced when I was very young, but that, again, you know, had no bearing on the support and the love I have a stepfather and a stepmother who are equally incredible and supportive. I always said I just got double the family that loves and cares. There you go. And my mother still lives on Long Island in the house where I grew up, so I love to go visit. Was just back there a couple of weeks ago, and are heading back up, you know, a couple of weeks time. And my dad actually lives in South Carolina. He relocated with my stepmother and my brother. They are around the Columbia area, so we're actually both Dennis' in the Carolinas. So that's actually quite nice. And I'm just just just saw him a couple of days ago, and I'm gonna see him, you know, on the Thanksgiving holiday as well. So looking forward to, looking forward to that. Michael Hingson  17:31 Well, last time I was back in the New York area for any length of time, I spent a week last year in Lindenhurst speaking to the Lindenhurst union free school district, and that was a lot of fun. Fortunately, it was before the snow hit. Oh, yeah, Lindenhurst. Dennis Szymanski  17:51 Lindenhurst was about a half an hour from where I grew up, one of the many, many towns that is the infinite urban sprawl of Long Island. Michael Hingson  18:00 Yeah. Well, yep. Well, it was fun. I was there for almost a week, and spoke to lots of sixth, seventh and eighth graders, did some faculty training, but enjoyed the area, and I've enjoyed Long Island every time I've been out there. So it was kind of fun. Well, I want to go back to this idea of nano scale. Tell me a little bit more about nano scale engineering. Dennis Szymanski  18:26 Absolutely, like I said, it's basically material science and engineering, but with a focus in semiconductors. So having had the hindsight now traditional material science background from NC State. When I went to do my graduate work, things like traditional material science, so metal stress strain curves. Didn't learn that in undergrad, focusing in semiconductors, I learned about transistors and the ethics of scaling semiconductor technology and computer programming at a very basic level that could help run certain parts of a semiconductor process. So very specific, very targeted focus that was nanoscale engineering. I was very fortunate to be the sixth graduating class out of the small colleges of nanoscale science and engineering. Like I said, that was part of the SUNY Albany system, and very hands on. I was in a building on the University's campus that was essentially an office building with 250 private companies pooling their resources in the office space as well as laboratory space, clean room space, but with a couple of classrooms. So not only was I rubbing shoulders with classmates, I was rubbing shoulders with people who worked at IBM or global founder. Or ASML Tokyo electron. These are big international companies that play in the semiconductor manufacturing space, and little did I know that was going to kickstart this incredible journey that has led me here to being a product engineer for a compound semiconductor manufacturer focused on gallium nitride power technology. So where people might be hearing this is in the AI data center talk. This material is going to enable faster, cheaper, cooler, more efficient chips, as well as you might have noticed, electric vehicles, your laptop, even your cell phone, charging a little faster and in recent years, and those bricks that used to sit on your lap and burn your lap get there, they're cooler. They're not as hot. All of these are direct advancements in compound semiconductor technology, semiconductor technology and essentially nanoscale engineering. And to go to its most fundamental route, you know engineer, nanoscale engineering is engineering on the nanoscale. And where we're at with semiconductor technology is we are looking at in silicon, a transistor is about a nanometer, two nanometers, which to put it in perspective for everybody listening, your hair, the width of your hair is 60 to 80 micrometers and nanometers are three orders of magnitude smaller, smaller than micrometers. So you can imagine that the reason we need clean rooms in semiconductor manufacturing is because one of your hair could wipe out hundreds, if not 1000s, of transistors on one of the chips, which nobody wants, right? You want a good manufacturing process that has high yield. So nano scale engineering has been was, was the start for for me with you know, the continuation of that has been to go into, as I said, material science in a more quote, unquote, proper sense, learning those stress strain curves, learning a little bit of polymer science, All applications and material science, but staying focused from age 17 till now on nanoscale engineering, which is material science focused, and semiconductors, Michael Hingson  22:51 if I recall, right, transistors were developed somewhere around 1948, so I mean, my gosh, that's only 77 years ago, ago, and look how far we've come. Dennis Szymanski  23:05 It truly is mind boggling. Michael Hingson  23:08 Michael, at the same time, we need to do something to figure out how to stop so many lithium ion batteries from causing fires somewhere. Dennis Szymanski  23:19 It's they're both material science problems for sure that that need to be tackled. I agree, Michael Hingson  23:26 yeah, one of those things that we're we're on the cusp of so many different developments. People talk about autonomous vehicles and so on. But, you know, the reality is, we're on the cusp. We're living through the the change that is coming. And personally, from my perspective, in my opinion, I can't wait for the time that we get to take driving out of the hands of drivers, because too many drivers don't do very well. Dennis Szymanski  23:55 You know, I have a very similar opinion, even though I will say one of my childhood dreams was to become a race car driver. So I do love to drive. I had an eighth of a mile go kart track in my backyard growing up, and one of the things that kept my sanity during my PhD program was going to the local go kart track and getting to put in some time trials. So I love to drive, but from a safety perspective, I could not agree with you more that it's high time that that we can implement some better safety and probably less traffic. Michael Hingson  24:33 Well, given the way most people seem to drive up here in Victorville or out here in Victorville, I am of the absolute opinion that I can drive as well as they can anyway, so Dennis Szymanski  24:44 we'll see. You know coming, coming from the New York driving environment to the North Carolina driving environment. Some things are similar, some things are very different, but, but it's definitely been, been fun spending almost half of my life. You know now down down down here in North Carolina, we had Michael Hingson  25:04 some people visiting us when my wife and I lived in New Jersey, and we drove into the city, and they said that the people who are with us, these cab drivers, are crazy. Just look at the way they drive. I would never want to be in a cab with with any of those drivers. And Karen pointed out, my wife pointed out something very relevant and so true for most cab drivers, at least back then, she said, look at those cabs. Do you see any dents? Do you see any dings? And they said, No. And she said, So what do you mean? You wouldn't want to be in those cars. You're probably safer in those cars than most anywhere else. Dennis Szymanski  25:48 She was right. She makes a good point. Michael Hingson  25:50 Practice. Makes perfect. It does. I love checker cabs, but we don't see those anymore. That's too bad. But oh well. But you know, one of the one way or another, I think that the time will come when autonomous vehicles will will make driving a lot safer, and that'll be good. But we're not there yet, and we're not there with with so many things I mentioned, the lithium ion batteries, they would they too will get better, and we will get over all of that. Now, of course, what we need to do is to make sure that we still have rare earth elements around. But that's going to be another challenge that we face over time. Dennis Szymanski  26:27 Yes, that's that's part of the fun, Michael, of being actually in material science as a discipline that it encompasses so many different touch points that we have in our life. One of my closest friends and was a colleague in my PhD program, is working on solid state battery technology that could potentially replace lithium ion technology and solve some of those problems just and it spans the whole gamut. I have a friend doing nuclear waste remediation. So very, very cool material science as a whole. You know, I'm obviously very enveloped in and my love is semiconductors, but my insatiable curiosity, I think I'm in the right field at Michael Hingson  27:20 large, yeah. What's the difference between incumbent semiconductors and compound semiconductors? Dennis Szymanski  27:30 Incumbent semiconductor technology has been predominantly silicon. So the raw material is you go to the beach and you get sand. That's obviously very oversimplifying. I'm not saying that you know TSMC or Global Foundries, or any of these guys are going to the nearest beach, but that is the raw material. It's very high purity. Silicon and compound semiconductors, on the other hand, are still very pure. That's one of the biggest material challenges of semiconductors at large, is to make them pure. But, and I'm glossing over a ton of physics and a ton of material science when I say pure. So just for any any fellow material science colleagues out there listening, I am aware that I glossed over a lot, but compound semiconductors are compound so you have two or more elements that come together that have semiconducting properties. So indium phosphide, indium and phosphorus, gallium nitride, gallium and nitrogen, aluminum gallium nitride, aluminum gallium and nitrogen. So they all come together. And what's very, very handy about these compound semiconductors is they can address a lot of niche applications in a much more efficient way than the incumbent silicon technology. So silicon technology can do a lot, I'm going to venture to say, almost everything we need. But the perfect example, and is on the top of everybody's mind is AI. You're not going to have AI in the form that we know it, if at all, without these compound semiconductors, silicon is just too inefficient. It's, you know, we've, we've reached certain limits at the material level that we need these compound semiconductors to get more efficient, AI, faster data interconnects, even, you know, charging your phone, laptop, electric vehicle, quicker, all of these are enabled. Enabled, and then to continue to iterate and improve, necessitate improvements and compounds. I mean, yeah, Michael Hingson  30:07 and that's, of course, the real key, speed and efficiency have a lot to do with it. I don't know. I remember having being a ham radio operator. I remember some of the early radios that I worked with. It was before, as ham operators would tell you, they went dark and went from tubes to transistors. So I remember vacuum tubes. My father was a TV repairman in Chicago before we moved out to California when I was five. And of course, then the biggest thing you ever replaced in a TV was a tube, although you did resistors and other things as well. But now, of course, it's a totally different animal. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Dennis Szymanski  30:50 I mean, the the vacuum tubes are exactly replaced with transistors. You replace with LEDs and all the different different things that modern semiconductors have enabled. Michael Hingson  31:00 They take a whole lot less power and are a lot a lot cooler in in the sense of, Well, I guess in cool in all ways. I had one I had one ham radio. It was a Polycom, and I forget the model number, but it ran extremely hot. We finally put a fan on one end of it to pull air through it. But without the fan, I could actually thaw and heat tater tots on it. It was so hot. Dennis Szymanski  31:29 Wow, you, you, you had a two in one. There you had, I did, and the ham radio Michael Hingson  31:35 all at the same time. It was great. But, yeah, I understand, and tubes are were replaced, and rightly so, by transistors. But a tube is a great way to teach the whole theory of how it all works and give you a way to see it in a very visual way that you're not going to see with transistors very well. Dennis Szymanski  31:57 That's true, and something that I was actually just kind of reappreciating Today was the history of it all, and how it's so important to realize that science and history are obviously inextricably linked from the progression standpoint, And then from what you said, it's it's so easy to to forget fundamentals and kind of get lost in the sauce, if you will. But I fully agree with what you say, that sometimes the quote, unquote old technology is actually just as good, if not better, a way to teach the fundamentals of the new technology, yeah, because so often they just build off of one another, right? Michael Hingson  32:49 The reality is that the process hasn't changed in terms of what they do. It's just that the product itself has changed, and it's become a lot more efficient and so on. But still, you're, you're moving electrons and and controlling them with positive and negative charges through the whole transistor process, just like you used to do with tubes, exactly, exactly. That's what makes it so, so interesting. And as you said, we take it way too much for granted. But I think that overall, it's it's great to have the old technology and the perspective to learn from, which is extremely important to do well. So what did you get your PhD in? Dennis Szymanski  33:40 So my PhD is in material science. Okay, that's what it is. My dissertation was on Super junction devices, a novel way to utilize gallium nitride in that particular device structure, super junction. So I again PhD, high level material science, compound semiconductors. And I focused on one particular material system, gallium nitride. And the goal was to learn about the material itself, make the material better and more suitable to be utilized in this type of transistor architecture that's called a super junction. Michael Hingson  34:32 So have we yet discovered a way to have any kind of superconductor operate at room temperature? Dennis Szymanski  34:39 Well, I didn't discover that there's been I mean, I keep up to date as best I can on other areas of the science world, and I know that we're doing really cool research that was previously thought to be impossible, right? Like most cutting edge scientific research.

What if the solution to plastic pollution could simply disappear? In this conversation, I sit down with Johnathan Jakubowski, CEO and founder of Smart Solve, to explore how biodegradable, water-soluble packaging is changing the future of sustainability and business. John shares his journey from early life lessons and a failed startup to building an innovative company focused on solving microplastic pollution. You will hear how purpose-driven leadership, core values, and faith shaped his path, along with practical insights on entrepreneurship, market adoption, and innovation. I believe you will find this discussion both inspiring and useful as you think about leadership, environmental impact, and what it truly takes to build something that matters. Highlights: 00:01:27 – Learn how early life values and family shaped a foundation for leadership and purpose 00:10:26 – Discover how technology and screen use are impacting focus, mental health, and development 00:17:59 – Understand how business failure can redirect you toward a more successful path 00:22:14 – Learn how biodegradable, water soluble packaging works and where it is used 00:27:04 – Discover why microplastics are driving a major shift in global innovation 00:52:49 – Learn how leadership is built through influence, culture, and consistent core values Bottom of Form About the Guest: Jonathan Jakubowski is an entrepreneur, author, inventor, and public policy advocate whose work spans the private, public, and nonprofit sectors. He is the Co-Founder and CEO of SmartSolve, a company he built around a simple but powerful conviction: that the packaging industry could be reimagined from the ground up. Under his leadership, SmartSolve has developed the world's first patented 100% bio-based, plastic-free, dissolvable food packaging — a genuine breakthrough in the global effort to eliminate packaging waste. SmartSolve's technology represents years of research, invention, and commercial development aimed at solving one of the most persistent environmental and industrial challenges of our time. Jonathan leads the company with a focus on proving that sustainability and profitability are not opposites — that the most innovative solutions can also be the most responsible ones. His work has positioned SmartSolve as a pioneering force in the zero-waste packaging space, drawing national and international attention. Beyond his entrepreneurial work, Jonathan is a published author whose book Bellwether Blues: A Conservative Awakening of the Millennial Soul has received widespread recognition and national media coverage. The book explores the political and cultural landscape facing a generation, and reflects Jonathan's deep engagement with public policy and civic life — shaped in part by his Master's in Public Policy from Georgetown University and his undergraduate years at Bowling Green State University, where he played collegiate football. Jonathan's commitment to service extends across sectors. He is the founder of Champions in Action, a nonprofit dedicated to empowering underprivileged youth in Guatemala, and serves as Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Forge Leadership Network, an organization devoted to developing principled leaders. His career reflects a consistent thread: identifying problems that others have accepted as inevitable, and building solutions that prove otherwise. Jonathan lives in Northwest Ohio with his wife Missy and their four children. Whether in the boardroom, on the page, or in the community, he is driven by the belief that leadership means leaving things better than you found them. Ways to connect with Jonathan: