Podcasts about national federation

High school baseball gives umpires a steady stream of situations that challenge both our rules knowledge and our game management.In this episode of The Pregame, I break down three recent high school games I worked over the course of a few days. Each game brought a different set of lessons, from partner communication and positioning to rules interpretations and managing coaches when tensions start to rise.We walk through several interesting moments that came up during those games, including some subtle rules questions, the importance of clear communication with your partner, and how small situations early in a game can influence how things develop later.The final game of the stretch eventually resulted in an ejection, which gave me the opportunity to walk through how situations escalate, how warnings and restrictions fit into the process, and what a clear, effective ejection report should look like.These are the kinds of moments that make umpiring both challenging and rewarding, and they provide great learning opportunities for anyone working high school baseball.If you want to read along with the report discussed near the end of the episode, you can view a redacted version of the ejection report here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cfqbEvnlDokSbqjUTXVI0GRUNjCnpmvGDWDTT5c0kSw/edit?usp=drive_linkTopics covered in this episode include:• Working with a partner you've never worked with before• Communication and crew dynamics• Interesting rules situations that came up during the games• Managing coaches and keeping a game under control• How situations escalate toward an ejection• What makes an effective ejection reportIf you're serious about officiating, membership in the National Association of Sports Officials (NASO) is one of the best investments you can make. NASO provides education, protection, and advocacy for officials at every level.Join NASO at a discounted rate here:https://join.naso.org/NAS/?f=DISCAFF&S=C25PFNUmpire Classroom provides high-quality, on-demand training for baseball umpires at all levels. From new officials just starting out to experienced veterans looking to sharpen their skills, we deliver clear instruction, real-game analysis, and practical tips to help you succeed on the field. Learn more and join our community at https://www.UmpireClassroom.comWe do not own the rights to the game footage used in this video. All clips are used under fair use for educational purposes to improve officiating knowledge and contribute to the baseball and umpire community — a community that is often under-appreciated and underserved in training resources. This video and channel are not sponsored or endorsed by Major League Baseball (MLB), the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), or the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS).

A sudden loss changed everything. In this episode, I sit down with Chanoa Inez, whose life took an unexpected turn when a joyful trip overseas became the beginning of a long journey through grief, healing, and transformation. Chanoa shares how losing her partner while living abroad forced her to face deep emotional challenges and rebuild her life from the ground up. Along the way she developed a thriving copywriting career, explored the deeper roots of resilience and self-love, and eventually wrote her book Dream On to help others navigate upheaval and loss. As you listen, I believe you will hear how Chanoa discovered that joy, purpose, and even a dream life can emerge again when we learn to understand our stories, trust ourselves, and move forward with an unstoppable mindset. Highlights: ·  00:10 — Why Michael created the Unstoppable Mindset podcast to show people they are more capable than they think. ·  10:39 — How graduating during the Great Recession led Chanoa to discover freelance writing and build her copywriting career. ·  17:07 — The life-changing moment when her boyfriend unexpectedly passed away while they were living in Montenegro. ·  25:00 — How starting and growing her copywriting business helped her rebuild stability after loss. ·  36:59 — Why Chanoa decided to write her book Dream On about rebuilding life after upheaval. ·  48:55 — How Chanoa defines joy as “energized happiness” and why reconnecting to it changes everything. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: Chanoa Inez is a Los Angeles-based author, personal transformation advisor (for people) and a messaging strategist (for brands). She's passionate about helping people and businesses lean into who and what they really are so they can stand out and make a real impact. When it comes to people, she makes that happen through her programs in MAGNETIZE YOUR PERSONAL BRAND™. Chanoa helps her clients become more memorable to attract more (and better) opportunities by showing them how to lean into their true selves, position their personal brands, embrace visibility, elevate their verbal and nonverbal communication, and more. In her work supporting startups and Fortune 500 corporations alike, Chanoa helps tech, fintech, and luxury companies develop memorable brand messaging and content that clarifies their place in the market, attracts their ideal clients, and helps them stand out in a sea of industry-speak and sameness; she's a brand voice specialist too. Years after a difficult, sudden loss, Chanoa Inez realized every area of her life was still touched by the immense grief from that fateful morning in Montenegro. So she set down a path for change marked by challenging hurdles but also awe and amazing opportunities. Steeped in gratitude for her life's transformation, she couldn't wait to share the techniques and perspectives that helped her achieve more and more happiness, health, and success.  In her book Dream On: How to create the new life of your dreams after upheaval or loss, Chanoa helps readers skip years of trial and error, delivering those learnings with the momentum of her craft as a copywriter. Readers are greeted with a set of meaningful paths designed to help them achieve the new lives of their dreams with far greater speed. Ways to connect with Chanoa: Website: https://www.chanoainez.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chanoa/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chanoainez/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Information about National Federation for the Blind: https://www.nfbks.org/ Instagram: @kssbpodcast

What happens when success, hustle, and constant work stop bringing fulfillment? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I talk with marketing strategist and entrepreneur Carlos Hidalgo about business growth, faith, burnout, and the hidden cost of hustle culture. Carlos shares his journey from corporate marketing leader to founder of Digital Exhaust, along with lessons from his book The UnAmerican Dream about work addiction, burnout, and redefining success. Their conversation explores why growth does not need to be complicated, why storytelling builds trust in business, and why boundaries matter more than work life balance. Carlos also opens up about faith, failure, relationships, and the power of honest conversations. You will hear practical insights on leadership, personal growth, community, and building a life that is both successful and meaningful. Highlights: ·  06:04 – Carlos explains how his faith became a personal relationship. ·  17:32 – Why he left corporate work to start his own business. ·  25:40 – His approach to making business growth simple. ·  30:17 – How hustle culture often leads to burnout. ·  42:29 – Why boundaries matter more than work life balance. ·  54:33 – Why real community helps solve loneliness. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: Carlos Hidalgo is the co-founder and CEO of Digital Exhaust, a growth partner that helps clients make growth simple. Carlos serves his clients as an advisor, consultant, and teacher to ensure they have meaningful engagement with their customers at every stage of the journey and are able to mature and create sustainable growth. Carlos has 30 years of experience working with organizations of all sizes as an advisor, consultant, innovator, and growth expert. He is widely recognized for his expertise in demand generation, marketing, sales, and customer experience and for coaching executives in the areas of leadership and managing change. In addition to his work with his clients, Carlos has won numerous marketing awards and been named to several prestigious industry lists as a marketing leader. Carlos is also the author of Driving Demand, which is ranked as a top 5 marketing book of all time by Book Authority, and The UnAmerican Dream, which was released in 2019. In addition to books, Carlos is a well-known international keynote and TEDx speaker. You can follow Carlos on LinkedIn or on Twitter @cahidalgo Ways to connect with Scott**:** LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosahidalgo/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/CHidalgoJr Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cahidalgo_ Twitter/X: https://x.com/cahidalgo About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hi and welcome once again to an episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, our guest is Carlos Hidalgo. Carlos has many facets about him. He's a speaker. He deals with growth and growth management and with his company. He tries to make growth simple for the people who are his clients. I'm interested in learning about that, but he does other things as well. He is also involved with his wife and marriage counseling, which is a little bit different than the one I think I find a lot of people to do. So I think we got lots to talk about. So, Carlos, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Carlos Hidalgo  01:59 Thank you for having me. Michael, it's an absolute pleasure. Well, let's Michael Hingson  02:03 start with the early Carlos, why don't you tell us about you growing up and all that sort of thing, and where you came from, where you're headed, or whatever. Carlos Hidalgo  02:14 Sure, I was born one of six children. I was the youngest for about four years, and then my my parents had two more. So I am smack dab in the middle of middle six siblings. Was born in New Jersey, but call where I'm at now home, which is a little town in the Adirondack Mountains. And the reason I call it home, I started coming to camp here when I was five years old. Fell in love with the area, and then my father, in 1983 moved us up here when I was 12, and fell more in love with it. And that lasted for four years. And then my junior of high school, or right after my sophomore year, was told, Hey, we're we're moving I was 16, I was pretty pissed off at the prospect of leaving a place I loved, so I had engineered a plan to stay through my junior and senior high school, which in my mind, made perfect sense in my parents' mind, and for reasons now I understand, because I'm a parent, did not make so much sense, but I came back as often as I could, and then my wife and I moved here back full time in 2021 we also lived here in the 90s for two years, had our first son here so but grew up really charmed childhood was my dad was in advertising, so we got tickets to Great sporting events. We had horses that I took care of, along with some of my siblings, developed a love of the outdoors, which I still hold, which is one of the many benefits of living up here again. And so, yeah, pretty, pretty much, early childhood was, you know, be outside as much as I can run around school work wasn't my strong suit, but I muddled through and I Michael Hingson  04:04 made it. Where in New Jersey were you born? Carlos Hidalgo  04:07 Was born in a little town called Randolph in northern jersey. Spent most of our time in a place called blairis town. Their claim to fame as a prep school called Blair Academy, which I believe is still there. And then, I believe it was the original Friday the 13th was filmed. Part of it was filmed in Blairstown. Yeah, yeah. So I'm dating myself just a little bit. Michael Hingson  04:32 Well, we lived in Westfield for six years, so kind of know, New Jersey, but yeah, while we were back there, my wife always wanted to move back to California. She's a native. I was born in Chicago. She wouldn't let me call myself a native, even though we moved to California when I was five. But yeah, it's okay. Carlos Hidalgo  04:50 Sure, yeah, people get a little touchy about the term native or local and how it's defined, right? Michael Hingson  04:55 Oh, yeah, it varies all around the country, but there's. Nothing. You can't say anything bad about Chicago. They have Garrett Popcorn there. If you've never had it, next time we go through O'Hare Airport, you should get some Garrett Popcorn. Carlos Hidalgo  05:09 Okay, I will do that absolutely. Michael Hingson  05:12 Take a memo. Get Garrett Popcorn. It's it's really good stuff. Well, so what did you do for college? Or did you? Carlos Hidalgo  05:21 Yeah, I went to my first year, I went to a school called Word of Life Bible Institute. So it's a one year intensive program, study of the Bible actually here, not far from, literally eight miles down the road here, from where I live now. And at that point, it was really just an excuse to get back to the Adirondacks for a year, but I learned a whole lot. Met some incredible people, some of who I'm still very, very close with today. And then from there, I transferred to Cedarville University in Ohio. At the time I went there, we were about 2500 students. I think today they're closer to 7500 but I met my wife there, which was that, in and of itself, the three years of tuition that I paid as I transferred in, but study Business Communication, again, I wasn't a great student. What I realized is, if it was the things that I really loved to participate in, it was awesome. I had a really great time studying communication and language and how we speak. I was two years on the debate team, which was such a great education in and of itself. But everything else I didn't really love. I just the general ed stuff. I kind of thought, well, if I can skate by and, you know, get that, get the passing the credits. So that's really how I want about it. And the reality is, the way things are taught today, I'm a very visual and hands on learner, and so to sit in a classroom and try to take notes and go through theory and things like that just makes my brain hurt a little bit. So I but I but I finished. I got the degree and made some great friendships in the process. Michael Hingson  07:04 Well and clearly, based on what you did for your first year, you have a Christian orientation, or definitely a god orientation as well. Carlos Hidalgo  07:15 Yeah, that's that's really my operating system. Michael, I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I base my life on it. I spend time in it each and every day. And so what's interesting in that regard is, yes, I went to the Bible Institute. So while I had a lot of head knowledge about the Bible and God and Jesus and all these things, it's really been in the last 10 years that I would say I had a deep, meaningful relationship with them, and that came as from a lot of experience in my life, a lot of dark, dark moments in my life that were self induced, unfortunately. But really, what it's done for me is it's just radicalized who I am, changed my heart. And so it's gone from a having a head knowledge of it to a real experience and an engagement with Christ through His Word and through prayer. Michael Hingson  08:11 Yeah, head knowledge is is a fine thing as far as it goes, but there's nothing like personally experience coming closer to whatever it is, including dealing with believing in God and really recognizing what what God brings. And my last book that I wrote that was published last year, called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith very much deals with with a lot of that, the whole concept of the value and the power of personal knowledge, as opposed to just head knowledge. I talk about the World Trade Center a lot in that book, specifically in terms of what I learned and how I developed a mindset to be able to control fear, rather than letting it be the thing that overwhelmed me or overwhelms anyone and and I've had a couple people on this podcast who talk about it, and they say the same sort of thing that you did. It's not about knowledge that you sort of intellectually know. It's what you really know. So people, for example, in evacuating the World Trade Center, would look at signs, and they would follow those and a lot of people were able to do that, but that's still not knowing that is really relying on something else that you may or may not really have access to. So True Knowledge is the only way to go Carlos Hidalgo  09:38 100% and I find that I gather that through experience, yeah. And so the example I use is, if you ask me about my wife, you know, do you know Suzanne? I would say, Oh, yeah. You know, blonde hair, blue eyes, about five, five. Funny, smart. I could tell you all the different facts, but there's a big difference when you sit and you get to experience being with her, seeing. Her, how she interacts with people, how she treats others, all of those things. Take that knowledge and actually make an experience an experience, yeah. And so that's been the difference for me, as it regard, in my relationship with Jesus Christ, yeah, well, Michael Hingson  10:14 and Suzanne, so that's good. Carlos Hidalgo  10:17 Well, so absolutely, 31 years and we're still going. There you go. Michael Hingson  10:21 Well, keep going. That's that's cool. That's great to have that kind of a relationship. It's all too often we don't see a lot of that in marriage, and just people get married without knowing and that leads to all sorts of potential challenges. So it's good to really get to know someone Carlos Hidalgo  10:41 absolutely, yeah, I'm still, still learning, still studying her and learning all I can, after 31 Michael Hingson  10:46 years, and she is too Yes, she is. Carlos Hidalgo  10:49 She does a phenomenal job. Michael Hingson  10:52 So what did you do after college? Carlos Hidalgo  10:56 After college, I actually moved back up here, where I'm at now. Worked for two years for Word of Life, the same group that ran the Bible Institute. So then, actually, unbeknownst to me, i My heart was really at that point, I wanted to go into law enforcement. My father in law was an FBI agent for 30 years. I'd always been intrigued by law enforcement, so I thought going into and getting a job for a few years, cutting my teeth while I filled out a resume. So started working in the office of donor development or advancement, and that was the first time I really started to get any exposure to anything formal, marketing wise. In the meantime, applied to the FBI, never went anywhere. Ended up applying again, never went anywhere at that point. Then we moved to we left here after two years of marriage and having one child. We moved to Michigan for a brief time, and then we went back to down to from Michigan. We went to Dallas, where we lived for 13 years, and I worked while I was still trying to get into law enforcement. I kept getting marketing jobs and companies. So eventually I gave up the dream of law enforcement and just followed what's unfolding and had a pretty good career in two software companies as a director of marketing to cut my teeth and learn what global business was all about do a lot of travel, which helped me career wise wasn't so great home wise or parent wise when you're away from your kids, but it's been my career for 30 plus years. I've had a heck of a career doing it and very grateful for it, but I still still get intrigued at the whole concept of law enforcement, but I'm afraid I'm a little too old at this point to start down that path. Michael Hingson  12:47 How come you kept not getting anywhere with it? Carlos Hidalgo  12:51 Well, I did get to a point where the FBI I took a test when we lived in Dallas, and just they called after said I had scored well, which made me chuckle, thinking back to my college days of test taking, but and then they said, Hey, do you speak Spanish, which I do not, despite my name, which is very Spanish, Carlo. And they said, Okay, well, we'll keep your we'll keep your application on file. Let you know if anything changes. And that was the last I heard. So at that point, I just thought, okay, I can keep pushing this and trying. But again, as things started to unfold in the software world, the jobs that I had took care of my family. They provided well for us. They gave me opportunities to learn new things, try new things, opportunity to, like I said, international business, which I never done before. So at that point, I just thought, you know, I'm kind of seven, eight years into this thing. What does this look like going forward? And then are we going to have to just hit reset in all facets of our lives, financially, where our kids are settled, for me to go into law enforcement. So I abandoned it, and I'm okay with that. I think it would have been a phenomenal career. I would have loved it, like I said. I'm still intrigued by it, I still have great respect for it, but it just wasn't in the cards for me, and I'm okay with that. I think sometimes the way we grow is through the death of a dream. Michael Hingson  14:21 Yeah, I know I've always been intrigued by law and law enforcement, and I know that they're never going to hire me, and now they won't, right, but, but they wouldn't hire me, but I took, actually, some courses in college dealing with police and other things like that, because I was, and still am fascinated by it, and I have a great respect for the law. And I I admire good lawyers who are knowledgeable, who really are in it to deal with the law. And you can tell those from the typical ambulance type chaser who manipulates, but, but. I really appreciate the law. I in my life have had the opportunity to be involved with some efforts of the National Federation of the Blind, where we've gone several times to Washington to meet with congressional types. And so I've met some interesting people, met Ted Kennedy, met Tip O'Neill when he was still speaker, Senator Saugus from Massachusetts and others, and found and through them, got to meet some people who were truly committed to what they were doing. They weren't in it for the power. They were in it to try to really help the country and help their individual constituencies in their states and so on. It's a lot of fun. Carlos Hidalgo  15:47 Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure it was, I that's quite a roster of people you've been able to engage with, and I'm sure, no doubt, influence well. Michael Hingson  15:57 And we were there to talk about legislation that we needed. But I'll never forget first time we went in and we met Paul Tsongas. We talked about what we wanted to talk about, and he said, Well, it's the end of the day. What are you guys doing now? And we said, well, we're just going to go back to the hotel. And he said, You got a few minutes talk to you about Massachusetts. Well, we ended up staying for two hours. It was a lot of fun. Carlos Hidalgo  16:19 Wow, yeah, that is a lot of fun. I had an opportunity a number of years ago to do a tour of the West Wing, which was just phenomenal. So when you get, when you get those opportunities, I don't care what side of the aisle you may sit on or are partial to, the answer is yes, take it, because you learn a whole lot, and it's it gives you a whole new appreciation for our country. Michael Hingson  16:40 Well, 20 years ago, I was invited to come back and meet George W Bush because a congressman I had met was fascinated by my story and the story of my guide dog, Roselle, and he arranged for us to meet George W and we went back. It was supposed to be a brief, like two minute just photo op. This ended up being like a 15 minute conversation, and then it was a lot of fun. And I hope that we inspired him some, and we made a difference. And, you know, that's always a good thing. Carlos Hidalgo  17:13 Yeah, at the end of the day, right there people just like us. They are, I think the and I've heard that a lot about George W is his investment in people where he knew his you know, everybody in the staff that he knew their names, he knew about their families. So it doesn't surprise me that a two minute Meet and Greet was extended a little bit. Michael Hingson  17:34 We kept the Italian Prime Minister waiting while we finished our conversation, as it turns out, that's fine, Carlos Hidalgo  17:42 but it was good. There you go. There's your there, there's your the two truth and the lie icebreaker that they have. You do sometimes. There's, you can work that in, Michael Hingson  17:49 I could work that in, yeah, that would be, yeah, I should do that. Well, it was, but it was, it was, it was very enjoyable to be able to do that. Well. So now, so when did you start your own company? That's been a little while, at least. Carlos Hidalgo  18:04 Yeah, I started my first company that I started, I co founded with my brother. In 2005 I was working at the software company, and I just, I started to just have an edge of, you know, I should start something. I don't know what that looks like. And I remember one time just talking to my wife, and I said, I don't want to be 7580 years old. And think, what if, yeah, and my wife is very practical. And she said, Okay, so go for it, and if it doesn't work, just go get another job. And when she broke it down like that, I just thought, wow. Okay, she, I think she believes in me more than I do. So in 2005 I left the software company and we started a agency. And really, at that point for me, the Yes, I wanted to start my own company and see if I could do it. But the the big driving factor was my at that point, I we had four children, so we have four, and they were all pretty small, and I was traveling all over the country, and I didn't want to miss their childhood. And I remember coming home from trips and hearing conversations or seeing things that that I wasn't a part of, and I thought this, this isn't right. I need to be here. I need to be home. So I went to the software company, asked them what they thought they became my first client, and I did that for from 2005 to just early 2017 when I resigned my position as CEO there just to get my life back and kind of hit the reset button again, but this time, I meant it, so I left, and they're still going. But that was my first foray into entrepreneurship, and I just kept doing it since I started another consultancy, and now this is my third one, and also been part of about two to three other companies that. We launched, but never made it. So I enjoy the whole process. I love it, but, yeah, it's, I don't know. I mean, I will never say never, but the idea of not working for myself seems rather foreign to me. Michael Hingson  20:16 So the first company you had for 12 years, what did that do? Carlos Hidalgo  20:21 We were a mark. Marketing Yeah, we were a marketing services company. So we worked with business to business companies to help them in their demand generation, acquiring new customers and also customer growth. So that's really where a lot of my career has been sent, centered right, helping companies design them strategies, everything from content to technology to developing personas and putting together strategies on how to reach them when they're looking for something to buy that that client offers. Michael Hingson  20:52 Okay, well, that makes sense and certainly a worthy thing to do. So, when did you form your current company, digital exhaust, which is a very clever name, you'll have to tell me about that. Carlos Hidalgo  21:04 Oh yeah, there's a little bit of a story behind that. So I was working in 2022 early 2022 I had an offer to go be the Chief Revenue Officer of another agency, which I my wife and I talked about it, we prayed about it, and I had a really, really close friend of mine who was their chief strategy officer at the time, so the ability to work with him, stay in the industry and work with some really good clients, I jumped at, so I took that role over that role lasted eight months. I won't get into all those details of why? Never, never, really did get a clear answer. The answer I was given, not exactly. The numbers didn't the number. I'll just say the numbers proved otherwise. All that said that came to an end in 2023 I believe. Yeah, yeah, 2023 and so February, 23 so at that point, I was like, Okay, well, what do I do? I can try to go get a job, which I did. Nobody was really interested in, you know, early 50s, guy coming in. So, you know, did the interview thing. And then I just thought, Well, why don't, why don't I just bet on myself again and go for it. So at that point, the my friend who was the chief strategy officer, he had also left, so he and I started talking and thought, why don't we just do this together? You know, services he loves to implement, I love to sell. Let's just see if we can make a run at this. So here we are now. It'll be four years in or three years, I guess, in February or April of 26 and we're still alive to talk about it. And so that's how it came to be. It was really just, I've done this before. There's no security, no more security. I believe in working for somebody else than working for yourself. So bet on yourself and put out your shingle and see what you can make happen. Michael Hingson  23:06 Where did the name digital exhaust come from? That's a clever name. Carlos Hidalgo  23:10 Oh, thank you. We were, we were batting around so many different names, and we just had a thing, I think we had a running Google Sheet, like, let's just throw names up there. And then I was listening to a recording of a vendor that we had done work with in our early days, and he was talking about how you can track the digital movements of someone. And he said, You know, so basically, you know, they're leaving behind their digital exhaust. And he used the term twice. So I called my then partner, Tracy, and I said, Hey, what do you think about the name digital exhaust as a company? And he was like, Oh, I love it. So I said, Well, before we that, we have to call Dan and see if he would be okay. So I did some looking, you know, the whole trademark search, and when I told our partner about it. He said, Oh my word, I love it. He said, Never, never even thought that that could be a name, but if you guys want it, go for it. So we took it and it is, it's, it's, we think it's pretty unique, and it also describes a lot of what we do with customer data to get an understanding of how do you engage with them, where are they, and how are they going to interact with you and your brand? How so well. Again, he was right. I can look at your digital footprint or your digital behavior. I can see what sites you've visited, what web pages you visited, how much time you spend on a product piece, how much content you engage so I can look at all of that behind the scenes. Start to score that if you're an account that I want to go after, or if I'm a lead based sale, that gives me a lot of intelligence on what you're interested in. And then there's ways to kind of, from a insight perspective, determine where you are in that journey, whether it's your four. First time as a purchase, you're a current customer and you're interested in purchasing something else. So it gives us a lot of insight into that, so that I can message you or I also know when should sales place a phone call to you and start that conversation. So that's why we use the term digital exhaust, because, again, it's a lot of what we do and how we use our customer data. Michael Hingson  25:20 Several years ago, I watched a 60 Minutes program, gosh, I don't know it's actually a number of years ago. And one of the segments there was a guy who was on he was a private detective, and what he said was, I can tell more about you than most anyone else can simply by looking at your trash. And in fact, I can't remember if it was Mike Wallace or not. Who was the interviewer, but they went on investigated some trash cans and and this guy could just tell you so much about your entire life just by looking at what was in the trash can. It was really pretty amazing and and I don't mean that in any way as a negative thing, but it's very clever that people have that insight. So I appreciate what you're saying about digital exhaust. It makes perfect sense. Carlos Hidalgo  26:17 Well, good. I'm glad it does. It means we've hit the mark. I'm not I will say this. I'm not going to go through my customers trash, but I am not surprised that if you did how much you could learn about somebody, 100% but Michael Hingson  26:30 you do look at their their digital footprint and so again, and it makes perfect sense that you can learn so much that can help you, help them grow. Yes, absolutely gives incredible insight. You talk about making growth simple, tell me more about what that means. Carlos Hidalgo  26:51 Yeah, you know, I've been in the space a long time, and that really came a couple years ago. We started seeing different models that would come up different frameworks that would come out from different vendors. Started talking, you know, I talked to a lot of chief marketing officers in my role, and over and over, what we saw was just complexity of taking terms that everybody would know and applying a new term or creating a new term to replace the old term, because you wanted to stay edgy. And I finally had a CMO who said to me, this is all so complex. Is there any any organization out there, or any way to just make this simple? And I thought, Gee, I kind of been thinking the same thing, because I see all these talking heads out there on LinkedIn and at these conferences showing these overly complex, overly engineered models, and I'm like, You got to be a PhD to implement that thing. And again, I'm also a pretty simple guy. I don't think growth needs to be all that hard if you know your customer, what they need, when they need it, and why it's important to them. I'm going to be able to sell you quite a bit. I'm also going to be able to be a better marketing, better partner to you, because I'll be the first one to be able to tell you you don't need that, or you need that, but you shouldn't get it from us, and here's why. And so we just started saying, You know what? Let's create with our models. And we have models and we have frameworks, but we want them to be kind of what Apple is, right, really innovative, where you can use it. You don't necessarily have to have someone to guide you through it. And so let's just make it as simple as possible for our clients to grow their companies without these over engineered models, which mostly a lot of them are created to sell stuff. And while we want to sell stuff more, so we want to help customers be better at what they do. And so that's why we say is we want to help you make growth simple, cut through the clutter, get to what matters and move forward. Michael Hingson  28:58 Yeah, which makes a lot of sense. By by any standard, how do you find storytelling comes into what you do and how you interact with customers? Carlos Hidalgo  29:11 Yeah, it's really important in the beginning, right in the beginning stages. Anytime I'm engaging with you, if I'm a consumer and you're a brand, I want to your brand should tell a story about who you are, the value that the customer gets when they're going to interact with you, they're going to use your product, what you stand for. Can they trust you? Trust is huge. Right now. We live in a trust economy. I want to know that if you say something, I can you're going to stand behind it. So all of those things are come through in terms of story. Now, what I've always said is I think that story is important. But when it comes to now, especially in the world I live in business to business, once I get into maybe I want to purchase something for you or purchase your product. Now I. Moves from a story to a dialog because I started, I start need, needing to know, what are you interested in? What are your challenges? What are your needs, what are your pain points? And as you're telling me that I can respond more in a conversation, I can still use parts of the story, but now it's a two way dialog, even in a digital world. So if I can create that, that's fantastic, then you become my customer. And now I still want to keep telling you stories. I want to tell you a story about why you can trust us. I tell you a story about how I interact with you. I tell you a story about how I deliver service and how I help you onboard. So all that bleeds into what we call, you know, what I call the big customer experience, from brand engagement to what I'm buying to now that I become a customer, all of those are experiential factors that we have to consider. Michael Hingson  30:49 Well, yeah, and I think that storytelling is a very significant part of selling and sales, because it's part of what really helps create the trust, because people can see through it, if you're just blowing smoke or playing games. Carlos Hidalgo  31:05 Yes, they can absolutely. And you only get one shot if that's what you're gonna do only, yeah, once I realized that forget it, I'm not coming back, that brand loyalty is away real quick. Michael Hingson  31:16 Yeah. So do you encounter in the interactions that you have with people with a lot of burnout or who are going that way. Carlos Hidalgo  31:25 Oh yeah. It's, it's something that I went through in 2016 it's, it's a, I mean, the World Health Organization, whatever you think about them, they definitely have listed it as a illness or as a condition. So it's something that I've seen. It's something that I've written against quite a bit. I don't think we need to get there, but I also think it is part of the consequence, or the outcome of when we make work center of our universe, and we make work our God, when that's going to happen then, yeah, you're going to experience burnout. And I think burnout comes in different flavors, but I see a lot of people who are going through it, trying to work through it, trudge through it. I heard the term the other day, manage burnout. I don't know why you would want to manage burnout. I think you need to take steps to avoid burnout, to avoid it. Michael Hingson  32:17 Yeah, why is it so many people face it, and are experiencing burnout is because they just deal with work, they don't relax, or what. Carlos Hidalgo  32:27 Well, I think there's a lot, lot in that. I've done a lot of study, and that was the topic of some of the topic of my book that I released in 2019 the UN American dream is, I think we, especially in our Western culture, we have adopted this idea that the busier I am, the more important, the more valuable I am, and so and the reality is, none of us are well wired to go, go, go, go, go. Rest is actually a gift from the Lord. And you know, I think very few of us. But you know, think about the last time you talked to anybody. How are you? Oh, I'm so busy. We love to be busy. We love to have jam packed calendars, because it makes us feel good. The other part of it is when you think about workaholism, you know, that is an addiction. And the only time in my experience, we engage with or become addicted to something, it's when we're trying to avoid something else. And so think our workaholism, which leads to burnout, is right up there with our rising rates of anxiety, of depression, of loneliness, because we have bought a false narrative that if we go, go go, we jam pack our calendars, we work like and work like crazy until we hit some imaginary number or we can call it quits. That's what life is all about. And I just sit there and you know, my number one question to people who are running that race is, how's it working for you? You don't seem really happy right now, you don't seem fulfilled, and you're living on the promise of some day and some days, not a day in the week, right? Michael Hingson  34:03 I People ask me, How are you all the time? And my response is something actually that I borrowed from somebody else. I just say, I'm lovely. Yeah, I get lots of reactions from that. It's kind of cute, but it's great. You know, I I agree with you, there is a there's a need and a time, and it's appropriate to not work all the time. Yes, we we don't ever take time even just to sit and think about what we did today. We don't take time at the end of the day to go in our own brains. How did this work out? How did that work out? Why didn't this work? Why did this work? What could I do to make it better and then listen for answers? It's like praying. So many people, when they pray to God, they pray to Jesus and so on. They spend all their time praying and saying what they want, never realizing God all. And he knows that, yeah, when are you going to start listening for answers and really listening? And that's, that's the challenge that I see so often people don't listen, and the answers are always there. They're in their inner the the inner voice that they can hear if they but practice well. Carlos Hidalgo  35:17 And I think to part of that is you need to be still, right? And we see that in scripture where we're told be still and know that I am God, if I mean there, there. We have so much noise and so much input with our phones and constant, you know, interaction and constant noise. We don't give ourselves the ability to sit and think and process, to just to be still. And that is something that I would say, really, for me, over the last decade, has come into focus of I enjoy my downtime. I enjoy the silence that I it's one of the reasons when I run, I don't run with headphones. In my own little world, in my head, praying, thinking about things. There are times I'll drive in the car without the radio on, just in silence, and I tell people, then they look at me like, I have three heads. Yeah, I'm like, oh, it's I am so much better for it, because I'm no longer living life reactively. I'm able to live life in a way that brings me a lot of peace, a lot of joy, a lot of happiness. And when I work, I work really, really hard, but it's definitely not the center of my universe. Michael Hingson  36:27 I know people think I'm crazy, but I can go days without looking well, not days. I'll go a day. I do it volitionally, but I can go quite a while without looking at text messages, and when I do, their message is there sometimes, but I know that I could actually go for a considerable length of time without needing to carry my phone around. Now, the only reason I do carry it around, I mean, clearly some phone calls can come in and so on, but I use other tools on it that you have access to in other ways. So I use it for those things. But the bottom line is, is that I don't need to have this phone with me to stay in touch with people all the time. So if I carry my phone more often than not, I will be in a hotel room listening to something on the phone and, sure, relaxing, rather than all the other things that one could do with it well. Carlos Hidalgo  37:25 And the number of people that I talked to and research shows this that, you know, the last I saw was over 60% it's the first thing people do when they wake up is they reach over and look at their phone and I say, sit there and say, What is so important that you can't even wait 15 minutes from the time your eyes open. But we've become addicted. We've come addicted to the noise, to the constant, go, go, go. And then, you know, we have a friend of ours last year was just, I'm so busy. I'm so busy. Told my wife, over the next three months, I only have this one day I can do lunch. And then you start realizing, like, Well, really, that's, that's how you want to live your life over the next 90 days, you only have one day. Now, I didn't believe it when I heard that. I don't think they were trying to make excuse, and I don't think lying. I think in their heads, they really had this belief of, oh, I can. I've only got one day out of the next 90, but we've weed ourselves into believing that this is how we should be living life. Yeah, and it's not how I want to live life. I'll work hard, I'll put everything I've got into my clients and my business and things like that, but I don't want to be that strapped. I was that strapped one time, time wise and work wise, and it made me absolutely miserable. Mm, hmm. Michael Hingson  38:45 I know when I wake up in the morning I do reach for my phone right at the beginning. One of the very first things that I do is reach for it to see what the temperature is outside, to see what the temperature is your house, to see whether I want to turn the heater on, you know, but I don't look at messages. I don't need to do that. I'll do it eventually, but, you know, I So, as I say, I use it for other tools, but I use the phone, because that's the tool that's available to me that gives me that information, and it'll help me decide, do I want to turn the heater on, or do I want to turn the air conditioner off? And that's what I do. And then I put the phone down, and I start visiting with the dog and the cat, and we have conversations which is, which is kind of fun, Carlos Hidalgo  39:29 but yeah, you get to enjoy life. Michael Hingson  39:32 I remember, remember the old technology town? Now it's old Blackberry. Oh yeah, the black and Research In Motion. There was one night when Research In Motion lost communications with all of the blackberries, and every BlackBerry went dead, I think, for about 12 hours. But I heard that even during the time when that occurred, people committed suicide because they had no way to look at their blackberries. And. Get information. And I always thought you're that dependent, that you can't cope for a while, especially at night without that information. Carlos Hidalgo  40:09 Come on. Yeah, it's staggering. The number of, again, over 50% of people said that they would be panicked if they want an app without their phones and so and again, I used to, I used to live that way. So I understand it to a degree, but, well, I understand it. Yeah, I also tell people you don't have to live that way, because people i The people I know who live that way, don't seem very content or fulfilled, right, right? Which is really the issue, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely, because we only go, we only get one shot at this life, and I want to make the most of it. Michael Hingson  40:43 Make growth simple. Carlos Hidalgo  40:46 That's right, personal, personal and business wise, right? Michael Hingson  40:49 Personal and business wise. So what is hustle culture? Carlos Hidalgo  40:54 Well, hustle culture has been promoted by a lot of folks, a whole lot more well known that I am, you know, where Kevin O'Leary for Shark Tank, Shark Tank talks about, you got to be willing to work eight days a week, you know, and give everything you've got, you know. Gary Vaynerchuk talks about, you know, go, go, go, go. And, you know, we just see it out there of this, you've got to be willing to go above and beyond. If you want to have success, if you want to make this money, you've got to just make sure you're willing to hustle at all costs, which to me, there's a place for that. As I said, when I'm working I hustle. I work hard. I get in a zone. I kind of block everything out and and there are some weeks where we require over and above it. You know, 16 or a week is is not something that has never been done. But the difference is, there's a couple of differences. Is I'm going to work hard because that's what I'm told to do. In Scripture, it says that with everything you do, do it with all your might and do it to the glory of glory of the Lord. So I'm going to do that. Plus work was one of the first things that God ever created. He told Adam in the garden, I want you to work now, what we also see is that it was cursed when man sinned, and it was part of the curse in the garden. But I do believe work is noble. I believe it's valuable, I believe it has so many things that can teach us. So I'm working. I'm hustling hard when I'm working, but this idea that I need to give everything I have to my business so that I'm successful. Well, what about our relationships? What about our own our last word, too, right? Our own physical health? What about my marriage? All of these things that require work yet, you know, you got a guy like Grant Cardone talking about 95 hour work weeks. That's insanity. Yeah, at what point, you know, so to me, I really believe, and I've had some people who've argued with me over this. If you want to know what the object of your affection is, show me where you're spending the most time and attention. And it's not time or attention, time and attention, right? I cannot. I cannot be, quote, unquote, working, but I can be with my wife, but my brain is working. My brain is thinking about my work, thinking about my business, thinking about my career. So what good is it to her if I'm there or not? Yeah, I'm not investing in that relationship, and that is just as much work as anything else. And I would I would say the rewards are better and the gratification that much deeper. So can work life balance actually be attained? I don't believe in work life balance. I believe in boundaries, and maybe I'm splitting hairs, but when I see that, over 70% of people say that work life balance is unachievable. It tells me it doesn't exist. It's also the only place in our lives where we talk we try to separate work from life. Nobody talks about finance life, business, kids life, business, marriage life, business. But we talk about work life balance. Now I understand we spend a lot of time at work in our modern day culture, but if I can decide that I'm going to put boundaries around the things that matter most to me, so like work, like my relationships, like my physical, mental and emotional health, my spiritual health, and that's how I've started to live life. Is instead of trying to balance everything, I'm going to set boundaries. So what does that look like? Well, the first thing I do in the morning is not check the phone. I get up, I pray. I have coffee with my wife. Sometimes we have really deep conversations. Sometimes we look just let the caffeine kick in and let it wake up, and then we set time in prayer. So every day, pretty much between 815 and 830 I'm at my desk ready to work, but I've put a boundary around that morning time, which allows me to start the time with with my Bible and with my wife from 830 To about 1230 I'm locked in. I am working. There's a boundary around there's a boundary. And then about 1230 to one, about two o'clock, that's my workout. Either go to the gym or I go for a run, come home, make my protein stuff, and then I'm back working again. And so and then when I'm done work, between 530 and six, I shut it down. Work is over, and now it's my personal life again, and whatever that looks like, and some of that is seasonal, because of where I live, in the summer, it'll get stay light till 930 and the winter, it gets dark by 430 there's quite a disparity. But because I have those boundaries, I know that I'm able to bring the best of myself to each of those areas of my life, and that is far easier than balance. And when one of those boundaries needs to move, I get to have a conversation. Hey, I've got a call tonight overseas. Or do we have anything? Are we good if I take this call at 730 at night? So I take the call at 730 at night, but I have that discussion, and it's it takes more effort to move a boundary, takes very little effort to get knocked off balance. Michael Hingson  46:05 Yeah, and I think that makes perfect sense. I know for me, when Karen was here, we we enjoyed breakfast and we enjoyed dinner, and I think there's a lot of value in that. Now, I was always the earlier riser, but partly because I worked for companies that kind of required that. That is to say I worked, for example, when I lived in the east for California companies. So I ended up being there later. But when I worked in the West, calling the east, I had to be in work by six, because that's what I needed to do. But we agreed on that, and I hear exactly what you're saying. The fact of the matter is that you've got to really make some decisions, but if you're in a relationship, then you both have to agree and make the decisions together, which is what really should happen 100% Carlos Hidalgo  46:58 and those boundaries will change. I mean my boundaries now that I'm an empty nester, you know, had I lived this way 15 years ago, would have looked far different because I still had children at home. And so the boundaries can shift and change. But to your point, you have to talk about that. And what I have come to believe is that if I'm making those decisions in regards to my business, my job, my career, and I'm not having the conversation with my significant other, then I'm not I'm not sacrificing anything. I'm just selfish. And yet, what we see is, Oh, you got to sacrifice for your business. I've said to couples before, if you and your wife believe and want to say, hey, we want to go build this thing and we want to go sell it so we know the next five years we're hardly going to see each other, and we're both on board with that, and this is what we want. Go in peace. I think you're nuts, but Go in peace, but still, you made the decision together. That's right, and that's the difference. And I find that a lot of people do not do that, and I also think it adds to the stress and the loneliness and the anxiety and the depression is because we're chasing something that is so fleeting, and no matter what Empire we may build professionally, we can't take it with us, right? Michael Hingson  48:13 And that's something that I wish more people would truly realize. It would make for a much happier world. Carlos Hidalgo  48:21 It would. But the unfortunate part is, until the pain and consequence of how you're living outweighs the fear of change, most likely you're never going to do anything different, right? 48:31 So tell me, Carlos Hidalgo  48:32 oh, go ahead. No. Oh, okay, tell me about the Michael Hingson  48:36 title of the book, the UN American Dream. Where did that come from? And why did you name the book that, why was that the title? And so on, Carlos Hidalgo  48:42 yeah, and so in 2016 is when I informed the company that I had started with my brother 11 years earlier that I was stepping down. Didn't really know what that looked like. I literally just one day, through the help of a friend and God's good grace, decided that it was time for me to go. And so the way they wanted to handle it in end of the year, and I think this was like end of October ish, when I made that decision, they said, You know what, let's not announce anything. We don't want our clients to get spooked in q4 so let's wait until the turn of the the new year. So that was into 2017 so I made a post, and I published it in February, 2017 about why I was leaving the company, some of the things that I was learning along the way. And what surprised me was the phone calls and emails I got from colleagues who said, Hey, I just read your post. Can we talk? I'm kind of thinking about the same thing. I'm miserable. And it was one email in particular that still stands out, where he said, I'm miserable. I started to think like, wow, okay, this, this is not just me. My circumstances were different. But this seems to be a problem, so I started to just do some research on our obsession with work, the number of hours we work, this idea of balance and hustle culture. Really immersed myself in it, and I thought this isn't what Truslow Adams meant when he coined the term the American dream. We're killing ourselves for what like, for What's the objective here to just add another zero to my bank account. So as I started to do that research, I saw myself and a lot of that same story, and the mistakes I made and how I was, you know, I had put my business first all the things that we've talked about. And I thought, Man, this is really quite un American, really, because we say we're the land of the free and the home of the brave, but we're not free if we're slaves to our company or our jobs or our careers. So I thought, You know what? I think what we're doing to ourselves is un American, and we're chasing the UN American dream, and that's how I came up with the title, Michael Hingson  51:05 who have been some of your greatest influencers? Carlos Hidalgo  51:09 Wow, I have had a lot. Obviously, my parents have been huge influences in my life. My mom is a fierce prayer warrior, and so I fervently believe I would not be where I'm at today if it wasn't for her and her faithfulness and that and my dad is it has been in marketing and sales and advertising. So learned a lot from him, just in life, and then also in business. There's a gentleman who lives up the street who is kind of like a second dad to me, it's an interesting relationship, because his son is also my best friend, but gentleman by the name of Keith Vander wheel who is salt of the earth, wise, just a wise, wise man has loved me, has when needed, given me a swift kick in the rear end, and just really helped keep keep me focused, and been one of these guys that I can go to, and it's a little about almost 20 years older than I am, so he's one that has seen more and done more. So I'm thankful for that. And then I am very fortunate to have about three or four very, very dear, dear friends, close friends, I mentioned one, Keith's son, who spur me on to greater things, encourage me when necessary, rebuke me and help me. And then I would say, more than anything, my wife, I learned stuff from her each and every day, her steadfastness, Her Grace, her strength of character, she is absolutely the strongest person I know, and has been the biggest influence in my life. Michael Hingson  52:45 I when I was in college, did radio, and I've always liked comedy. I've always liked trying to be a little bit flip and so on, yep. But I will tell you that my wife constantly amazed me. She was pretty much a lot more straight faced and straight laced than i But when she came out with a zinger, it came out of left field, and you never saw coming. She was amazing. Clearly, she observed me a whole lot more than I thought she did, right? Carlos Hidalgo  53:18 And what a gift that is to have. My wife and I were just, we went out for brunch today, with it being the holiday, and I just, I told her, I said, I just love how much we laugh. Yeah, what a gift that is to have in your marriage. We're just laughing together and laughing at each other in a way that's not demeaning, but appreciates our differences. And you know, we can tease each other and enjoy it and know it comes from a place of love, yeah. Michael Hingson  53:42 How do we deal with the epidemic of loneliness in our lives and in our world? Carlos Hidalgo  53:48 Wow, that's a great question. It's first of all, I think it's heartbreaking. I see this especially with men. And statistics would show that that men especially struggle with loneliness. I think number one is we have to come to the realization we were not meant to live in isolation. We are communal beings. God created us to live in community, and we need to step into that. And part of that is letting your guard down and being vulnerable and letting people know where you struggle. Now I'm not talking about wearing your heart on your sleeve and walking right every stranger and spilling, but those closest of relationships, and I can say, you know, for me, when I isolated, that's when I became the worst form of myself and went to places I never thought I would go. And so I think loneliness, first of all, get off social media and your phone, because that's not a connection. No, your friends, all of your 1000s of friends on Facebook, are not true friends. They're people, you know, but they're not people that are going to walk with you through some of the hardest times of your lives, and so find those. Group, find that community, whether it's your church, whether it's a small group that you take part in, whether it's people at your work, but really start to invest in those relationships and bring as much to it as you're expecting them to. And for me, it became just with those closest relationships. I'm an open book. I'm not going to BS. I'm going to talk about what's on my heart, what I'm struggling with, what my victories are, what my low points are. And for me, that starts with my spouse. As I mentioned, I've got three other men in my life that are around my age that I can confide in, be open with, and it's the most freeing, wonderful thing, and it's their relationships that I cherish, and I think that's how we end this cycle of loneliness. But I think a lot of people have been duped. Well, I'm on I've got a bunch of friends online, yeah, you know, put the phone down, get off your social media platform and go be human and interact with other people. Michael Hingson  56:01 It gets back to the same thing we talked about earlier. There's a whole big difference between head knowledge and really knowing. And the friends who are truly your friends are people who you know and who know you and that you can truly be honest with and who will be honest with you. And that is not something that you get from all those Facebook friends. Otherwise, you're being awfully silly, right? Carlos Hidalgo  56:23 And I also think we have to get out of this idea in our culture that if I don't affirm you, I somehow don't like you anymore, this idea that tolerance and love are the same thing. Some of my closest friends have been some of the ones that have come to me and said, Hey, here's what we've observed, and we're sure you don't like that about you, and you know this needs to change. And I love that. I love that I friends who will call my stuff and a wife who will say to me, this isn't the best you like what's going on here? I need that in my life, because if all I want to do is have people pat me on the back and affirm me. I'm going to get entitled pretty quick. Yeah, and that doesn't help at all. Right? How do we bring civil discourse to our society? We're in an environment and in a world where we just don't appreciate or have conversations anymore. How do we deal with that? Well, I think a couple of things. First of all, I think we have to get back to an appreciation for and a respect for human life and humanity in general. Michael, I'm sure if you and I spent a few hours together, we would eventually land on a topic that we don't just that we don't agree on. I can be okay with that, and because if I'm open to say, Hey, Michael is a human being. He's smart. He's overcome incredible odds in his life, and maybe if I listen, I can learn something. Doesn't mean I'm going to come to your side of the the position, but I can at least learn something. But I think systematically, over decades, we've been denigrating the the value of human life. I mean, how many millions of babies have we aborted in this country? You know, your your own story, your parents were told, hey, just put him in a home. He's not going to amount to anything because of his blindness. That's insanity, you know. So today, instead of civil discourse, if I don't like you, I berate you online, I make something up about you, or I kill you. And right so and to tell you how far we've gone, not only does that happen, but then we're gonna have people who celebrate in the murder of whether it's an insurance CEO or a Charlie Kirk, or anybody, and I just sit there and say, Okay, we've we've gotten so far right civil discourse. And so I think number one is just a respect and a value for human life, which we have a lot of work to do there. And then number two, again, back to what I said, this idea that if I disagree with you, I somehow don't love you anymore. And the example I use is this idea of, well, you need we need more tolerance and affirmation. There was a time Michael where my behavior within our marriage just was unacceptable. I mean, I was cheating on my wife, and once she found out she still loved me, but she couldn't tolerate the behavior for reasons that I think I need to explain. So at that point, you say, All right, well, how do those two things work together? If I had kept doing what I was doing, I know for 100% she would have loved me till the day she died, but she died, but she wouldn't have been able to stay with me, because you can't tolerate that behavior. She's supposed to affirm that. And so this idea that because I quote, unquote, love you, I affirm you, I actually make the case that if I love you, I'm going to help you be the best form of yourself, which sometimes means disagreeing with you and pointing things out in your life. That are unhealthy, that's fair. So I think we have to get back to that place of we can have disagreement, still have respect for each other. We can disagree vehemently and still do it respectfully, right? And then at the end of the day, I can respect your position because of who you are as a person, and that you know, giving you the benefit of the doubt. This is a well thought out position. And so, okay, great. We agree to disagree. We can still be friends, yeah? Michael Hingson  1:00:27 And we might learn something, or at least be put on a path where we think about it, and we may discover that, oh, that person's right, correct, yeah, which is Carlos Hidalgo  1:00:36 cool, yeah, and it's not that hard. And again, no, do your do your homework. Know what the real issues are, and stop reading headlines on social media. Michael Hingson  1:00:46 Yeah, really, get away from that. What else should we know about you? Carlos Hidalgo  1:00:50 Well, I'm the father of four amazing kids spread all over the country, ages 30 to 20. He'll be 24 in 10 days, and then an amazing daughter in law, soon to be daughter in law, my second son is engaged, gets married next year. I love the outdoors, anything outside. And I would say, if I want your audience to remember anything, it's that what Jesus Christ has done in my life has been nothing short of amazing. And like I said at the beginning, this is my operating system, and it's who I am and my reason for being in each and every day. And I sit here and I just am in awe of the life I get to live. So I'm very, very thankful and very, very humbled by it all. Michael Hingson  1:01:36 If people want to reach out to you and maybe explore working with your company, using your company to help them. How do they do that? Carlos Hidalgo  1:01:43 Yeah, you can email me at Carlos at Digital exhaust.co it's not.com so make sure it.co's or I won't get it. So you can shoot me an email visit our website, which is digital exhaust.co or looked me up on LinkedIn, just Carlos adalgo, H, I, D, A, L, G, O, right. That is correct. Yeah. I appreciate you getting the name right on the introduction. So thank you for that. I worked at it well. Michael Hingson  1:02:12 I want to thank you for being here. This has been wonderful. And as I tell people all the time, if I'm not learning at least as much as anybody else on this podcast, and I'm not doing my job well, which means I do need to listen and think about it. And I appreciate all the insights that you gave us today, and I appreciate all of you being here and being with Carlos and me. Love to get your thoughts. Please reach out to Carlos. Please email me at Michael H i, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, but most of all, wherever you're listening or watching the pod podcast, please give us a five star review and a rating. We love that. We love your your input, please. Of course, I want it always to be positive, but I'll take whatever you send because we we value that. And for all of you and Carlos, you as well, if you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on the podcast. We'd love it if you'd let us know we're always looking to meet more people to help show that we're all more unstoppable than we think we are. And with that, I want to thank you again, Carlos, for being here. This has been absolutely fun. Carlos Hidalgo  1:03:13 Michael, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed it. Michael Hingson  1:03:20 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m

In this episode of White Canes Connect, host David Goldstein speaks with Kaleigh Brendle, founder and president of Judy's League and a recent graduate of Villanova University preparing to begin law school. Kaleigh is a passionate disability rights advocate dedicated to protecting the civil rights of disabled Americans through education, outreach, and grassroots organizing. Kaleigh joins the show to discuss Judy's League, a cross-disability advocacy organization she founded in response to legal challenges threatening Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973—one of the foundational civil rights protections for people with disabilities. The conversation explores the ongoing lawsuit Texas v. Kennedy, why Section 504 matters, and how advocacy groups are working to ensure these protections remain intact. Key Takeaways Kaleigh explains what Section 504 actually requires, why current legal challenges could weaken disability protections nationwide, and how public awareness plays a crucial role in defending civil rights. She also shares how Judy's League is mobilizing advocates across the country through research, social media outreach, and grassroots engagement. Plus, stick around to hear the story behind the National Federation of the Blind song "Who Are We? NFB," which Kaleigh helped write and perform.   What You'll Learn What Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 does and why it matters How the lawsuit Texas v. Kennedy could impact disability rights Why public awareness is critical in defending accessibility protections How Judy's League is organizing a cross-disability advocacy movement The story behind the NFB song "Who Are We? NFB"   Links Mentioned in the Episode Judy's League Website https://www.judysleague.org/ Contact Judy's League https://www.judysleague.org/contact-us/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/JudysLeague Instagram https://www.instagram.com/judysleague?igsh=a2xyMHJhZWx4eGNn&utm_source=qr TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@judysleague?_r=1&_t=ZT-94KrcqYS4Pl   Media Coverage USA Today article on the Section 504 lawsuit https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/03/12/texas-lawsuit-students-disabilities-protections/79085182007/   Music Mentioned Listen to "Who Are We? NFB" https://open.spotify.com/album/6uwPmlEjzPBoJyjPacRCeb   Read more at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/151/.           Apply for a $10,000 National Scholarship The National Federation of the Blind is accepting applications for the 2026 NFB Scholarship Program. We offer an array of scholarships to blind students to support their educational and professional goals. In addition to the $10,000 cash award, each recipient receives funding to attend our national convention, opportunities to network with other blind students, and avenues to connect with hundreds of blind professionals. Learn more and apply at https://nfb.org/programs-services/scholarships-and-awards/scholarship-program. Application deadline is March 31, 2026. NFB National Convention July 3-8 in Austin This year's National Convention is in Austin, Texas, from July 3-8. Learn more about the 2026 NFB National Convention at https://nfb.org/convention. Call 800-627-7468 to book your room. The main hotel is the JW Marriott. The spillover hotel is the Austin Marriott Downtown. Use the room block code, BL1, to ensure you receive the convention room rate. Jernigan Scholarships for National Convention If you have never been to a National Convention, you can apply for a Jernigan Convention Scholarship by going to https://www.nfbofpa.org/jernigan. Good luck! Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/. Contact White Canes Connect Email us at WhiteCanesConnect@gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at (267) 338-4495.

Project 2025 began not with a bill in Congress, but with a 900‑plus page playbook assembled by the Heritage Foundation and allied conservative groups, billed as a roadmap for the next Republican president. Heritage calls it a plan to “take back our government from the deep state,” while critics describe it as a bid to, in the words of the National Federation of Federal Employees, “destroy the administrative state” and replace it with loyalists.At the heart of the project is a personnel revolution. The blueprint urges reinstating and vastly expanding “Schedule F,” a Trump‑era job category that would let presidents reclassify tens of thousands of career civil servants as at‑will employees. According to an analysis by the Center for American Progress, one architect of the original order, James Sherk, projected roughly 50,000 positions could lose civil service protections. Advocates argue this would “ensure the President's policies are faithfully executed.” Opponents warn it would allow mass firings based on ideology, undermining neutral expertise in law enforcement, public health, and regulation.The document does not stop at staffing. It zeroes in on independent agencies that Congress designed to be insulated from day‑to‑day political pressure. In Project 2025's own terms, these are “so‑called independent agencies.” Chapters urge giving the president power to remove commissioners at will and subject their rules to aggressive White House review. Analysts at the Center for American Progress note that this could let a future president pressure the Federal Communications Commission on media licenses or keep the Federal Trade Commission from issuing rules like its recent ban on most noncompete clauses.Concrete agency changes are spelled out in vivid detail. A chapter on the Department of Energy recommends outsourcing core analytical work of the Energy Information Administration to private contractors, a move Boston Review warns could turn basic energy data into an ideological battleground. At the Environmental Protection Agency, Project 2025 proposes ending the role of career staff in awarding hundreds of millions in grants and handing that power to a single political appointee. The Health and Human Services chapter calls for steering teen pregnancy prevention funds toward abstinence‑only programs, reversing a decade of evidence‑based grantmaking.Running through the plan is a view of presidential power sometimes called the “unitary executive theory.” According to the American Civil Liberties Union, Project 2025 would concentrate control of the Justice Department in the White House, prioritizing an attorney general “above all loyal to the President” and easing the removal of officials who resist politically driven investigations.Supporters frame these ideas as a long‑overdue correction to an unaccountable bureaucracy. Critics, including nonpartisan legal scholars, warn that neutral guardrails like Senate confirmation, independent data, and protected civil servants are what keep any president from becoming an “imperial” figure.With the next election cycle underway, Project 2025 now functions as both a governing manual and a political litmus test. Candidates are being pressed to endorse, amend, or reject its proposals. The real test, though, will come if a future administration tries to turn this blueprint into executive orders, agency reorganizations, and real‑world firings.Thanks for tuning in, and come back next week for more.Some great Deals https://amzn.to/49SJ3QsFor more check out http://www.quietplease.aiThis content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

Great marketing does not start with your product. It starts with your customer. In this conversation, I speak with marketing strategist Scott Hornstein about why storytelling, customer research, and trust are the real drivers behind successful brands. Scott shares lessons from decades in marketing, including his work with IBM and major technology launches, and explains how companies often fail when they focus on themselves instead of the people they serve. You will hear how listening to the voice of the customer can reshape messaging, build trust, and unlock growth. Scott also reflects on entrepreneurship, resilience, family, and the mindset required to get back up after setbacks. I believe you will find this conversation both practical and encouraging as you think about how relationships and trust shape business success. Highlights: · Creativity in Queens – Scott reflects on how music and culture shaped his early creativity.04:10 · From Literature to Marketing – His love of books leads him toward storytelling and marketing.12:57 · Learning to Experiment – A mentor teaches the value of trying ideas and learning from failure.20:46 · The Customer as the Hero – Scott explains why marketing must center on the customer.31:48 · Customer Insight Drives Messaging – Research helps reshape a company's message and market entry.41:23 · Resilience Through Setbacks – Scott reflects on perseverance in life and business.50:59 Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: I currently live in Reston VA, my wife and I having moved there to be close to our 2 daughters and our 2 granddaughters. I am an independent business consultant specializing in storytelling – which embraces marketing, research, and content. Family is the most important thing in my life and it has taught me that lasting relationships, business and personal, are steeped in empathy and commitment. I was born in Manhattan on July 25, 1950. My parents soon moved the family to the up-and-coming borough of Queens. I attended the public schools in and around Forest Hills.  Writing was always my goal. I graduated NYU as an English major.  Upon graduation I traveled, then pursued my (naïve) dream of living as an artist – as a writer, an actor, and a musician. I wrote plays for the brand-new cable industry, wrote for a movie-making magazine, was in several off-off Broadway plays, worked as a pick-up musician. I helped in the office for a former professor to earn subway money. Got tired of starving to death. Took a job with CBS in the Broadcast Center, pulling together the Daily Log for the local station. Then, got hired to answer Bill Paley's mail. Then, I was hired as a marketing manager for Columbia House where I got some of the best advice – keep going. I met this guy from my neighborhood while commuting to my job in Manhattan. Turns our he worked for Y&R and said they were looking for someone. I interviewed and jumped over to agency-side work as an Account Executive, then Account Supervisor, then, going back to my roots, copywriter and eventually Creative Director. The entrepreneurial life has been a roller coaster, but I have been blessed to work with some brilliant people in marketing and sales, and some great companies. It allowed me to understand how I can really help my customers become successful in the long-term. Ways to connect with Scott**:** LinkedIn Medium www.hornsteinassociates.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hi everyone, and welcome once again to another episode of unstoppable mindset today. Our guest is Scott Hornstein, although when he came into the Zoom Room, I said, is it Hornstein or Hornstein? And of course, he also understood, because we're both of the same age, and are both fans of Young Frankenstein, who always said that his name was really pronounced Frankenstein. But you know, you have to have to know Gene Wilder for that. But anyway, if you haven't seen that movie, you got to see it. Mel Brooks at his best, but Scott is a marketing person and specializes a lot in storytelling, which fascinates me a lot, because I am a firm believer in storytelling, and I know we're going to have a lot of fun talking about that today. So Scott, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Scott Hornstein  02:20 Thank you so much, Michael. I have to start by saying I have great respect for your work, and this is really quite a privilege for me. Thank you very much. Michael Hingson  02:32 Well, thank you. You're a long way from where you were born, in New York, in Manhattan. Now you're in Reston, Virginia, but that's okay. Well, you're not that far. It's just a short train ride, a few hours. Scott Hornstein  02:41 I That's true. That's true, although with that particular train, you can never be sure exactly how long it's going to be good Michael Hingson  02:52 point, yeah, yeah, good point. It is one of the things one has to deal with. But that's okay. But, you know, I've taken that train many times, and I've taken the the Metro liner as well, and also just the regular train. And I like the trains. I enjoy the train. I wish we had more of them out here. Scott Hornstein  03:15 I do too. I when it a long time ago in business, when I had a client here in DC, and I was living in Connecticut, I started taking the train, and it was so superior to flying. Oh yeah. And then recently I was, as I was mentioning to you, I was in Germany and taking the trains there is just wonderful. It's so superior. Michael Hingson  03:47 Yeah, I wish we would have more of them out here. If I, for example, want to take a train to San Francisco from where I live in Victorville, the only way I can do it is to take a train at roughly four in the morning to Los Angeles and then transfer on a train to go to San Francisco, which is no fun. I'll fly because it's it's kind of crazy, but I like the trains, and wish we wish we had more of them all over, and wish more people would use them. It's a lot better than driving, and it's a lot more pleasant. When I lived in the east, there were any number of times that I knew people who would travel from like Bucks County in Pennsylvania to New York Wall Street people, and they would go two, two and a half hours on the train every day and back again. And they formed discussion groups or other sorts of things. They they made it a part of their regular day, and it was there was nothing to them to do that. Scott Hornstein  04:54 And to them, I say, God bless. I am not in love with commuting, right? Yeah. Michael Hingson  05:00 Well, I understand that. I appreciate that, but they, they did well with it, and so good for them, or, as I would say in Australia, good on them. But you know, well, why don't we start tell us a little bit about you, maybe growing up in the early Scott and all that stuff. Let's start with that, sure. Scott Hornstein  05:21 First one brief aside about Young Frankenstein when I was living in Connecticut, I would go to the theater in Stanford, and for one performance, my tickets were at the will call, so I went up to the ticket booth, gave them my name, and the woman be on the other side of the iron bars keeps throwing her head to the side, wanting me to look over to my left, and I finally look over to my left, and there's Gene Wilder. Oh my gosh. What an enormously tall individual, very gracious, very nice. In any case, yes, Michael Hingson  06:06 with him, did you? Did you talk with Scott Hornstein  06:09 him just for a moment, just for a moment, you know, just Mr. Wilder, how nice to meet you. And he said a couple of nice things. And that was about it. Still, we all went to see the to see the show. Still, it was quite a thrill for me. What show I do not. Oh, that was, oh, no, excuse me. That was the the madness of King Charles, madness of King George. King George. But he was quite mad, and the play is excellent, excellent. Well, anyway, in any case, I grew I was born in Manhattan. I spent the first couple of years of life on the west side. I don't remember much of that. But my parents quickly moved us out to Queens, which at that point was rather undeveloped. You could get a lot more for your money, and we have lived in an apartment building. And around our apartment building was nothing but empty lots. It was just not developed yet. But it was a great place to grow up because the there was so much going on in those years and so much so much music that was going on. The first recollection I have, in light of all the talk about vaccines and healthcare and all of this is I really remember that polio was a real thing there, and I remember kids with the braces on their legs. And I remember that when one of my friends got chicken pox, that the mothers would get us all together and have a play date so that we got chicken pox too. Okay, but it was, Michael Hingson  08:20 I'm sorry, remember, I remember getting the polio vaccinations, even starting in kindergarten, Scott Hornstein  08:24 yes, yes. And it was such a remarkable thing at that time. We all thought it was like a miracle. And, and Jonas Salk, I mean, he was like, such a hero, yeah. The other thing, so I, we were out in Queens, in an area that's the larger area is called Forest Hills, and it was, it was a great place, because the the whole museum, whole music scene was just exploding. So I'm moving on until my junior high school and high school years, and it was just all over the place. Yes, we were playing in bands, but also there were these wonderful venues to go to. And there was the subway. If my parents only knew where I really was, we would get on the subway, go down in the village, go to all the cafe bar Gertie spoke city, all these places to hear the this wonderful mind changing music. And by mind changing, I don't mean drugs. I mean mind changing that it was, it was just everything in life. Michael Hingson  09:57 And there's nothing like hearing a lot. Music, Scott Hornstein  10:01 even to this day, it's my very, very favorite thing to do. Yeah, and so many musicians and artists came out of that area. I not being one of them. But it was so exciting. Michael Hingson  10:27 I remember when we lived in New Jersey, and I would commute into New York. I heard, for example, even then, and it was in like 96 to beginning of 2002 Woody Allen on Monday night would play his clarinet somewhere. And less, less, Paul was still doing music and playing music at the meridian ballroom. And you can even take your guitar in and he would sign it for you Scott Hornstein  10:55 the it was Joe's Pub. Woody Allen would right. And I went there a couple of times to see him. Of course, it was so pricey that we had to kind of sneak in have one beer, yeah, Michael Hingson  11:16 but still, it was worth doing. Scott Hornstein  11:19 And then they Yeah, and they were great clubs. I think that was, there's certainly the blue note for jazz that I went to a lot. And then there in Times Square, there was iridium, which was where I was able to see Les Paul, right? And many of those greats. Michael Hingson  11:42 Yeah, I never did get to go and get my guitar signed, and now it's too late. But oh, well, do you play? I play at it more than anything else. My father, I think, even before the war, before World War Two, or somewhere around there anyway, he traded something and got a Martin grand concert guitar. Oh, still, I still have it. That's wonderful. What a wonderful sound it is. Scott Hornstein  12:15 What a wonderful story. Yes, I play as well. I And growing up very early on, I decided I wanted to be Ricky Nelson. Oh, there you go. But I quickly learned that I was not going to be Ricky Nelson. However, the guy that was standing behind him playing guitar, now that might be something that I could do. So yes, so I picked it up, and I played in all the bands and then, which quickly taught me that I was not cut out for rock and roll, that I wasn't very good at it, but it led me into many other avenues of music, certainly listening, certainly being part of that scene, I'd go see friends of mine who could play well rock and roll and And that was so exciting for me. And then I, I played in pickup bands through college. So on a weekend night there would be a wedding, Bar Mitzvah, and this guy, I forget his name, piano player, he he got all the gigs and Howie was the first choice for guitar, and if Howie wasn't available, they'd call me. Michael Hingson  13:47 There you go, hey. So second choice is better than no choice. Absolutely. Scott Hornstein  13:54 I i enjoyed it thoroughly and that they paid me money to do this. There you go, right, inconceivable to me. Michael Hingson  14:05 So what did you major in in college? Scott Hornstein  14:10 Well, I started off majoring in biology, and there you go. And why I chose biology is is a mystery to this day, it didn't last long. I cycled through a number of things, and I graduated with a degree in literature, in English, particularly American literature, which is not quite the same as learning a trade. But you know it, it was consistent with with who I was at that time. I was the guy who, if he went out the door, would have two books with him, just in case I finished one. I didn't want to be left at sea, so a voracious reader couldn't stay away from the theater. So it was very consistent with who I was and and it was good for me, because I think through things like like literature and fiction and biography, you learn so much about the world, about how different people are confronted with challenges, how they process their lives, how they overcome these challenges or not or not, it just exposes you to so much. Michael Hingson  15:49 Yeah, and so I'll bet you had some challenges finding some sort of real, permanent job after getting a degree in English? Scott Hornstein  16:03 Yes, I did. But when I got out the idea of it didn't cross my mind that people actually would not earn a great living by being just an artist. What did I want to do? I wanted to write. I wanted to be involved in music. I wanted to act. I did all these things until the point when I got thoroughly fed up with being poor, with not having a dime in my pocket. Ever starving to death is, is sort of what you would call it. Yeah, yeah. You know, I did. I have modest success. Yes, I was able to keep myself off the streets, but no, it was no way for a career. It was no way to even be able to afford your own apartment, for gosh sakes. So I from there i i had done a lot of promotion for the different things that I was involved in, trying to get audiences, trying to get awareness of what I was doing, and that led me to have some contacts inside of CBS. And when I started looking for a job, I started talking to these folks, and they offered me a job. So here I was, and actually gainfully employed. Michael Hingson  17:44 What was the job? Well, I Scott Hornstein  17:47 was sort of a gopher for my first job. Mostly what I did was type, but I do have one good story for you. So I was down in the depths of the CBS Broadcast Center, which is all the way on the west side of 5017 and it's an old milk factory, so which they had converted to broadcast purposes. And so there were long holes, and the halls would always slope down. And there was one day where I was late for a meeting, and I came running down the halls, and there are always these swinging doors, I guess, for in case there's a fire or something, and I'm bursting through the doors, and I go running, and I burst through the next set of doors, and I'm running, and I burst through the next set of doors, and I knock this guy right on his bum. I pick him up, I dust him off. I say, I am so sorry. He says, Don't worry about a thing. It's all fine. I continue running. A friend of mine grabs me and says, Did you see Paul Newman? Michael Hingson  19:10 There you are. Scott Hornstein  19:12 So I have the unique entry on my resume of knocking Paul Newman to the ground. Michael Hingson  19:22 I Well, at least he was civil and nice about it. Scott Hornstein  19:26 He was very nice about it, though. Yeah, so I worked there and then through my writing, because I was writing for a film magazine at night, which, of course, didn't pay a cent, not a cent, but I got to go to all the premiers, and I got to meet all the people and interview all the people so whatever. So through that, I was able to go over to the main building and answer letters for Bill Paley, who was the. Michael Hingson  20:00 Chairman, Chairman, I said, Yes, right, Scott Hornstein  20:02 and it was my job to explain to everybody why Mr. Paley, I never called him, Bill, never, nobody, no, no, why he was right and they were wrong. That was my job, and that I did that for a little while, I can honestly say that I enjoyed having money in my pocket, but that was not the most fulfilling of jobs, and from there, I was able to go over and get my first marketing position, working for the Columbia record and tape Club, which was part of CBS Records at that time. And when I Ben or Dover was the president of Columbia House at that time, and when he made me the offer, he gave me one of the great life lessons that I've I've ever had. And he said, Scott, if you sit in your office and you do exactly what I ask you to do, and you do it on time, and you do it perfectly, we are not going to get along. But if you are out there and you're trying this and you're trying that, and this works, and that doesn't work, but you get up and you keep trying, we're going to be fast friends. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. That's something that has stayed with me my whole life. One of the great pieces of advice that I've ever gotten, Michael Hingson  21:57 well the for me, what's fascinating about it is thinking about how many people would really do that and allow that to happen, but it's really what more people should be doing. I've I've always maintained that the biggest problem with bosses is that they boss people around too much, rather than encouraging them and helping them and using their own talents to help people be more creative. When I hire sales people, the first thing I always told them was, well, the second thing because the first thing I always told them was, you need to understand right up front if you're going to sell here, you have to learn to turn perceived liabilities into assets. And that's got a story behind it. But the second thing that I always talked about was my job isn't to boss you around. I hired you because you convinced me that you're supposed to be able to do the job, and we'll see how that goes. But you should be able to but my job is to work with you to figure out how I can use my talents to help you and to enhance what you do to make you more successful. And the people who got that did really well, because we usually did things differently, and we both learned how to figure out and actually figure out how to work with each other and be very successful. But the people who didn't get it and wouldn't try that, generally, weren't all that successful. Scott Hornstein  23:26 Not terribly surprised, sir. You know, I think that people miss the the humanity of all this. And that if we bring our respective strengths and work together, that it's going to be a more complete and more successful whole than if I try and dominate you and tell you what to do, right, just that hasn't been a successful formula for me. I have never done well with people who tried to tell me exactly what to do, which is probably why I went out on my own. Probably why, in the greater scheme of things that I I did well, working for people from Columbia House. I met this guy on the train, and we got friendly, and he said he worked for an advertising agency, and they were looking for somebody would I be interested in interviewing? And this was with the young and Rubicon. And I did get the job, and I did work my way up to an account supervisor. And then i i said, i. Hate this, and I went back to be a copywriter and worked my way up to be a creative director. But, you know, I went on my own on January 1 of 86 and it was like a liberation for me, because at that point there was a new a new president of the division that I worked for, and he was not a nurturing individual. He was more of the dominant kind of you'll do what I tell you to do. Didn't sit well with me at all, and I had the opportunity to go on my own. So I I packed up my dolls and dishes, and I walked in on January 2, and I said, Bill, I quit. Michael Hingson  26:02 There you go. Was it hard for you to do that? Scott Hornstein  26:11 You know, at that point? So I here I am. I'm a creative director. I got the office on Madison Avenue, and I'm doing freelance all over the place, not only because it was extra money, but because it was it was fueling my creativity. It was giving me something back. It was fun. And I really like to have fun. I have so much fun working with people and that interaction that that humanity, the spark of humanity. So I was doing a lot of freelance, and I wrote this proposal for this one design group who was near where I was living at that time, and it got sold. So they said, Do you want to you want to work on it? And at that point in my life, I didn't have any responsibilities. I had a studio apartment there that was real cheap. And I said, If I don't try this now, yeah, I don't think I'll ever try it. So that's what I did. I quit, and I walked out the door into the great unknown, Michael Hingson  27:39 and the entrepreneurial spirit took over. Scott Hornstein  27:43 It did, and it worked well for about six, seven months, and then we got to the summertime, and I couldn't get arrested for a while. But you know, you have to take it one day at a time. And I figured, all right, well, let's just be open and network and see what's going on. It's not the time to quit. It's not the time to go back and get a job. And I was fortunate in that I was sitting at the desk one day, and this one guy called me, and I had met him before his folks ran one of the biggest, or actually the biggest, telemarketing agency in New York at that time, and I had met, met this fellow, and he said, I got this project. I've been asking around for creative source, and three people gave me your name. So I figured, well, let's go talk. And that turned into a very, very good situation for me, it gave me a lot of responsibility and a lot of leeway to take all the things that I had learned and put them in service of my client and I had a ball. I loved it. The only thing I didn't love was the and I did love this for a while was the constant travel. Now, everybody doesn't travel, and they're all sitting in their rooms at home, looking at screens. But that was that was a great opportunity for me to to spread my wings and to take and I learned so much one of the. Initial assignments I had was for IBM and IBM at that time was, was Mount Olympus. Oh my gosh, working for IBM, and I worked in tandem with this research group. We were all working on the introduction of the IBM ThinkPad and what these folks, they had a methodology they called voice of customer research, which was a qualitative research we're talking to decision makers from a carefully prepared Interview Guide to come up with the attitudes, the insights that we could put together to to come up with a solution. And I was fascinated by this of how to tap into what what the customer really wants by talking to the customer. How unusual. Michael Hingson  31:16 What a concept. Oh yeah. I mean Scott Hornstein  31:19 then and now, it's still the operative phrase of this would be a wonderful business, business, if it wasn't for all those annoying customers and and this just turned that on its head. That's another thing that I learned that has stayed with me through my entire career, is that for the the storytelling, and what I mean by storytelling is, is two things. Is, first, you know all your stories are going to come from what you consider to be your brand, but if you're not developing your brand according to the wants, the needs, the desires, the expressed future state that your Customers want, then then you're wide of the mark. So I was able to bring this in, and I think do a much better job for my customers. Now, the way that relates into storytelling is that you're you're able to take what you do and put it into the story of how your customer succeeds with the hero in the hero's journey, is Michael Hingson  32:55 your customer, your customer? Why do you think that is such a successful tactic to use, Scott Hornstein  33:02 because everybody else is completely enamored of themselves. When other companies craft their their brand, it's mostly because why they think they are special and what their vision tells them is their future. And quite frankly, most customers really don't care when, when a new customer first confronts you and your brand. They ask three questions, who are you? Why should I care? And what's in it for me? And if you can't answer those, if the story that you tell whether complete or in fragments or in in different parts according to where they are on their consideration journey. It doesn't resonate. It doesn't resonate. Hey, I have the best technology out there. I have brilliant people working on this technology. And guess what? Your technology? Somebody will eat your technology in 18 months, and I don't care, I want to know. What does it do for me? Michael Hingson  34:28 Yeah, as opposed to saying, After asking enough questions, I have technology that will solve this problem that you have identified. Let me tell you about it. Is that okay? Exactly? Scott Hornstein  34:44 Yeah, exactly. And as odd as it sounds, that helps you to stand out in the field, in a crowded Michael Hingson  34:55 field, it does, but it's also all about the. Relating to the customer and getting the customer to establish a rapport and relating to you. And when you, as you pointed out, make it about the customer, and you talk in such a way that clearly, you're demonstrating you're interested in the customer and what they want they're going to relate to you. Scott Hornstein  35:24 There's two, two things in there that, well, there's a million things in there that are particularly true. And the first is not only recognizing and and internalizing the goals of your client, but also opening yourself up and saying, these are people. These are humans. And the other real distinguishing fact that a lot of people don't either realize or embrace is that in business to business, and I've spent most of my life in business to business, it's all personal. It's all about personal connections. It's all about trust. And call me crazy, but I am not going to trust a machine. I will have confidence in technology, but my trust is going to be placed in the human through this, one anecdote that that is has really impressed me is that I was doing one of these interviews once, and I was talking to the CEO of of this company. And I said, Well, you know, I of course, I'm working for company A and you've been a client for a long time. What's, what's the greatest benefit that you get from this company? And without hesitation, he said, our salesman. Our salesman is part of our team. He understands who we are, he knows what we need, and he goes and he gets it. So that kind of that, to me, has always been a touchstone on things. Michael Hingson  37:43 Well, the fact that the salesman earned that reputation, and the President was willing to acknowledge it is really important and crucial. Scott Hornstein  37:56 And within that, I would say the very important word that you used is earn. You need to earn that trust. Sure it doesn't come just because you have brilliant technology. It's all people. It's all personal, all people. Michael Hingson  38:20 And that's success, the successful sales people are people who understand and work to earn trust. Scott Hornstein  38:32 Well said, and I think that particularly in this age of accelerating remoteness, that this concept of earning the trust and the person to person becomes a compelling competitive differentiator. And I think that that telling the story of of how you make your customers successful, of the role you play, of where you're going, this allows you to bridge some of those troubled waters to people who are sitting remote. It helps you to open your ears you know where you're going, so you can listen, yeah, Michael Hingson  39:40 well, and that's an extremely important thing to to keep in mind and to continue to hone, because bottom line is, it's all about, as I said, trust, and it certainly is about earning, and that isn't something you. First, it's something that you understand. Scott Hornstein  40:04 It's a gift that can only be bestowed on your customer. You can want it, but they're the only ones who can give you. Your brand is the meal you prepare. You but your reputation is the review, right? So, yeah, you gotta earn that trust. Michael Hingson  40:32 So how long so you you own your own company? How long has the company been in existence? Scott Hornstein  40:40 I Well, let's see. I went on my own on January 1 in 1986 and I am still without visible means of support. Michael Hingson  40:58 Well, there you go, same company all along, huh? Scott Hornstein  41:03 I Yeah, you know, do different work with different people, sure, but yes, it's still me. Michael Hingson  41:13 It's still, do you actually have a company and a name or anything like that? Scott Hornstein  41:17 I did. I did for a long time. I operated under Hornstein associates, okay, and recently I have dropped that and I just work as myself. I think that I had employees, then I had expandable, retractable resources then, and I'm not so interested in doing that right now. I am interested in working as and I love working as part of a team. Collaboration is my middle name. I might not have put that on my resume, but yeah, and I'm just, I'm really just interested in being me these days. Michael Hingson  42:13 That's fair. There's nothing wrong with that. No, well, in your current role, what do you think is the greatest contribution you've made to your clients, and I'd love an example, a story about that. Scott Hornstein  42:28 I would love to tell you a story. Oh, good. So one of my clients is a manufacturer. And they manufacture of all things, barcode scanners, as you would use in a warehouse and in a warehouse, absolutely everything, including the employees, has a barcode. Theirs is different than the the ones that you would normally see, the ones that like have a pistol grip. These are, these are new. It's new technology. They're ergonomically designed. They sit on the back of your hand. They're lightweight. They have more capabilities. They're faster and more accurate. Well, that sounds like sliced bread. However, they had a big problem in that all the scanners in all the warehouses come from the titans of the universe, the Motorola's, the great big names and these great, you know the old saying of Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Well, you know, if they need more scanners. Why would they go elsewhere? They just go back and get the same thing. So the the big problem is, is how to penetrate this market? And we did it. I worked with them in a number of ways. The first way was to conduct interviews, qualitative interviews, with the executive team, to come up with their their brand. What did they think? What did they think that was most important? And they said, clearly, the productivity gains, not only is this faster, not only can we prove that this is faster, but the the technology is so advanced that now we can also give you. Information from the shop floor. Well, then we talked to their their partners, who were already selling things into these warehouses. And we talked to a number of companies that were within their ICP, their ideal customer profile, I think that's very important to be prospecting with the folks who can make best use of your products and services. And what we found is that it wasn't just the productivity, it was that we solved other problems as well, and without going heavily into it, we solved the a big safety problem. We made the shop floor more secure and safer for the workers. So we changed the message from Warehouse productivity to the warehouse floor of making each employee safer, able to contribute more and able to have a better satisfaction, and that we were able to roll out into a into great messaging. The initial campaign was solely focused on the workers, and our offer was We challenge you to a scan off our scanners, against yours, your employees, your products, your warehouse. Let's have a head to head competition, because we then knew from these interviews, from working with the partners, that once these employees got the ergonomic the lightweight, ergonomic scanners on their hands, and realized how much faster They were, and how much safer that they were, that they would be our champions. And in fact, that's what, what happened. I can go deeper into the story, but it it became a story. Instead of coming in and just saying, boost your productivity, it's the scanners work for your your overall productivity. It helps you to keep your customers satisfied, your workers, one of the big problems that they're having is maintaining a stable and experienced workforce, this changed the characteristic of the shop floor, and it changed the character, how the employees themselves described their work environment. So we were able to take that and weave a story that went from one end of the warehouse to the other with benefits for everybody in between. So you said, What is the the one you said, the greatest benefit, I would say the contribution that I'm most proud of, it's that it's to recast the brand, the messaging, in the form, in the shape of the customer, of what they need, of helping them to achieve the future state that they want. And I'm sorry for a long winded answer, Michael Hingson  49:10 yes, that's okay. Not a not a problem. So let me what would you say are the two or three major accomplishments or achievements in your career, and what did they teach you? Scott Hornstein  49:26 Well, you know, I think the the achievements in my career, well, the first one I would mention was incorporating that, that voice of customer research, bringing the customer to the planning table, letting the executives, the sales people, the marketers, unite around, how does the customer express their hopes, their dreams, their challenges? I would say the second. Uh, is this idea of taking all of the content of all of the messaging and and unifying it? Some people call it a pillar view. I call it storytelling, of relaying these things so that you are giving your prospects and your customers the information that they need when they need it, at the specific point in their consideration journey, when this is most important, and it might be that a research report for a prospect that talks about some of the challenges in the marketplace and what's being done, it might be as simple for a customer as a as a video on how do you do this? You know, how do you screw in a light bulb? Oh, here it is. Everybody's used to that. The the third thing, and, and this is something, forgive me, for which I am, I am very proud, is that now I take this experience and this expertise, and through the organization called score, I'm able to give this back to people who are are trying to make their way as entrepreneurs Michael Hingson  51:35 through the Small Business Administration. And score, yes, Scott Hornstein  51:40 very proud of that. I get so much for from that. Michael Hingson  51:46 Well, what would you say are maybe the two or three major achievements for you in life, and what did you learn? Or what did they teach you? Or are they the same Scott Hornstein  51:57 I did? Well, I would say they're they're the same, and yet they're a little bit different. The first one is, is that it's only very few people who lead the charmed life where they are never knocked down. I'm not one of those people, and I've been knocked down several times, both professionally and personally, and to get back up, I to have that, and you will forgive me if I borrow a phrase that indomitable spirit that says, no, sorry, I'm getting back up again. And I can do this. And it may not be comfortable and it may not be easy, but I can do this. So there was that I think that having kids and then grandkids has taught me an awful lot about about interpersonal relationships, about the fact that there isn't anything more important than family, not by a long shot, and from these different things. I mean, certainly, as you I was, I didn't have the same experience, but 911 affected me deeply, deeply and and then it quite frankly, there was 2008 when I saw my my business and my finances sort of twirl up into the sky like like the Wizard of Oz, like that house in the beginning, Michael Hingson  54:09 but still, Scott Hornstein  54:16 And I persevere, yeah. So I think that that perseverance, that that focus on on family, on humanity. And I would say there's one other thing in there, is that. And this is a hard one. Observation is that I can't do anything about yesterday, and tomorrow is beyond my reach, so I I have to take Michael Hingson  54:56 today, but you can certainly use yesterday. As a learning experience, Scott Hornstein  55:01 I am the sum of all my parts, absolutely, but my focus isn't today, and using everything that I've learned certainly. You know, I got tongue tied there for just a minute. Michael Hingson  55:19 I hear you, though, when did you get married? Scott Hornstein  55:25 I got married in 87 I I met my wife commuting on the train to New York. Michael Hingson  55:35 So you had actually made the decision to could to quit and so on, before you met and married her. Scott Hornstein  55:43 No, no, I was, I was I met her while I still had a job in advertising. That's why I was commuting to New York. And you know, in the morning there was a bunch of us. We'd hold seats for each other and just camaraderie, yeah, you know, have our coffee. Did she? Did she work? She did she did she was she joined the group because she knew she had just gotten a job in New York. And of course, for those who don't know New York? When I say New York, I mean Manhattan, the city. Nobody thinks of any of the boroughs Michael Hingson  56:27 as part of New York. Scott Hornstein  56:31 And yeah, I and one day gone in, she fell asleep on my shoulder, and the rest is history. There you go. Michael Hingson  56:41 What So, what did she think when you quit and went completely out on your own? Scott Hornstein  56:48 I you know, I never specifically asked her, but I would think that she would have thought that maybe I was not as solid, maybe not as much marriage material, maybe a little bit of a risk taker. I did not see it as as taking a risk, though, at that time, but it was actually great for us, just great for us. And yeah, met there, and then I quit. Shortly thereafter, she was still commuting. And then things started to just take off, yeah, yeah, both for my career and for the relationship, yeah. Michael Hingson  57:51 And again, the rest of course, as they say, is history. Scott Hornstein  57:56 It is. And here I am now in Reston, Virginia, and we moved to Reston because both daughters are in close proximity, and my two grandchildren. And you know, am I still confronted with the knock downs and the and the get up again. Yeah, the marketplace is very crazy today. The big companies are doing great, the mid size companies, which is my Market, and it's by choice, because I like dealing with senior management. I like dealing with the people who make the decisions, who if we decide something's going to happen, it happens and and you can see the impact on the culture, on on the finances, on the customer base. These guys are it's tough out there right now. Let me say that it's it's tough to know which way to go. This doesn't seem to be anything that's sure at the moment. Michael Hingson  59:11 Yeah, it's definitely a challenging world and and then the government isn't necessarily helping that a lot either. But again, resilience is an important thing, and the fact is that we all need to learn that we can survive and surmount whatever comes along. Scott Hornstein  59:33 And let me just throw in AI that is a big disruptor at the moment that nobody actually knows Michael Hingson  59:43 what to do with it. I think people have various ideas there. There are a lot of different people with a lot of different ideas. And AI can be a very powerful tool to help but it is a tool. It is not an end all. Um. Yeah, and well said, I think that, you know, even I, when I first heard about AI, I heard people complaining about how students were writing their papers using AI, and you couldn't tell and almost immediately I realized, and thought, so what the trick is, what are you going to do about it. And what I've what I've said many times to teachers, is let students use AI if that's what they're going to use to write their papers, and then they turn them in. And what you do is you take one period, and you call each student up and you say, All right, I've read your paper. I have it here. I want you now to defend your paper, and you have one minute, you're going to find out very quickly who really knows what they're talking about. Scott Hornstein  1:00:47 That, in fact, is brilliant. Michael Hingson  1:00:49 I think it's a very I think it's a very powerful tool. I use AI in writing, but I use it in that. I will use it, I will I will ask it questions and get ideas, and I'll ask other questions and get other ideas, and then I will put them together, however, because I know that I can write better than AI can write, and maybe the time will come when it'll mimic me pretty well, but still, I can write better than AI can write, but AI's got a lot more resources to come up with ideas. Scott Hornstein  1:01:21 It does. It does. And with that, it's a fantastic tool. The differentiator, as I see it, for most of my stuff, is that AI has read about all this stuff, but I've lived it, so I'm going to trust me at the end, Michael Hingson  1:01:45 and when I talk about surviving the World Trade Center and teaching people what I learned that helped me in the World Trade Center, I point out most people, if there's an emergency, read signs and they're told go this way to escape or to get out or do this or do that, but there's still signs, and they don't know anything. I don't read signs, needless to say, and what I did was spent a fair amount of time truly learning all I could about the World Trade Center where things were, what the emergency evacuation procedures were what would happen in an emergency and so on. And so for me, it was knowledge and not just relying on a sign. And so when September 11 happened, a mindset kicked in, and we talked about that in my my latest book, live like a guide dog. But that's what it's about, is it's all about knowledge and truly having that information, and that's what you can trust. Scott Hornstein  1:02:48 I'll give you a big amen on that one. Michael Hingson  1:02:52 Well, this has been a lot of fun to do. We've been Can you believe we've been doing this an hour? My gosh, time, I know having fun. Scott Hornstein  1:03:03 It's fun. And I would say again, in closing, I just have enormous respect for what you've accomplished, what you've done. This is been a great privilege for me. I thank you very much. Michael Hingson  1:03:19 Well, it's been an honor for me, and I really value all the comments, the advice, the thoughts that you've shared, and hopefully people will take them to heart. And I would say to all of you out there, if you'd like to reach out to Scott, how do they do that? Well, there you go. See, just, just type, well, right? Scott Hornstein  1:03:42 That's it. If you, if you sent an email to Scott dot Hornstein at Gmail, you'll get me. Michael Hingson  1:03:56 And Hornstein is spelled Scott Hornstein  1:03:58 H, O, R, N, S, T, E, I, Michael Hingson  1:04:03 N, and again, it's scott.hornstein@gmail.com Scott Hornstein  1:04:09 that's that's the deal. There you go. Well, find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on medium. I'm all over the place. Michael Hingson  1:04:18 There you are. Well, I hope people will reach out, because I think you will enhance anything that they're doing, and certainly trust is a big part of it, and you earn it, which is great. So thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching us wherever you are. Please give us a five star review and a rating and but definitely give us a review as well. We appreciate that. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest, Scott, you as well. We're always looking for more people to have on, so please introduce us and Scott. If you want to come on again, we can talk about that too. That'd be kind of fun. But I want to thank what I want to thank you again for being here. This has been fun, and I appreciate you being here with us today and and so thank you very much for doing it. Scott Hornstein  1:05:07 My all the pleasure is all mine. Michael Hingson  1:05:14 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

In this episode of The Pregame, Patrick Faerber checks in for the first time in March as the baseball season gets underway. With basketball season wrapping up, the focus now shifts fully to baseball and getting ready for another year on the field.Patrick also shares updates on new educational content coming out through Referee Magazine, including a new series of one-page mechanics resources designed to be practical tools that officials can save and reference throughout the season. Upcoming topics include the National Anthem mechanics and a breakdown of touches, tag-ups, and responsibilities, complete with custom mechanics diagrams.The episode also previews several articles from the March issue of Referee, including:• Who's Got Third? – A discussion of two different mechanics used in a two-umpire system when a play may develop at third base.• Sharpened by the Game – A conversation about developing professionalism and presence on the field.• When Can a Runner Help a Teammate? – A rules deep dive that led to a new NCAA interpretation and highlights a gap that may eventually lead to further rule clarification.Patrick also sits down with Alan Paul, one of Referee Magazine's newest contributors, to discuss professionalism, preparation, and how officials continue improving through experience.This podcast is supported by the National Association of Sports Officials (NASO).NASO membership includes:• A subscription to Referee Magazine• Digital access to the magazine through the NASO app• Educational resources for officials in multiple sports• Advocacy and support for the officiating professionJoin NASO at a discounted rate using the link below:

A quarterly check-in with the National Federation of Independent Businesses finds optimism in many industry sectors, led by Manufacturing. Host Gene Marks says he's hearing the same things when he speaks at association events. On the not-so-rosy side, almost 70% of HR leaders expressed concern over a lack of data to make effective decisions on raises and promotions – citing fragmented systems and manual entry. OpenAI ready to release another gadget: a smart speaker with a speaker that could change the way we make purchases. Listen to the podcast. Additional Resources Meet Paychex: https://bit.ly/3VtM6bs DISCLAIMER: The information presented in this podcast, and that is further provided by the presenter, should not be considered legal or accounting advice, and should not substitute for legal, accounting, or other professional advice in which the facts and circumstances may warrant. We encourage you to consult legal counsel as it pertains to your own unique situation(s) and/or with any specific legal questions you may have.

What happens when a childhood dream refuses to let go? In this episode, I sit down with cartoonist and Lum and Abner historian Donnie Pitchford to explore how old-time radio, comic strips, and a love for storytelling shaped his life. Donnie shares how he grew up inspired by classic radio shows like Lum and Abner, pursued art despite setbacks, and eventually brought the beloved Pine Ridge characters back to life through a modern comic strip and audio adaptations. We talk about creativity, persistence, radio history, and why imagination still matters in a visual world. If you care about classic radio, cartooning, or staying true to your calling, I believe you will find this conversation both inspiring and practical. Highlights: 00:10 Discover how a childhood love of Lum and Abner sparked a lifelong dream of becoming a cartoonist. 08:00 Hear how college radio and classic broadcasts deepened a passion for old time radio storytelling. 14:33 Understand how years of teaching broadcast journalism built the skills that later fueled creative success. 23:17 Learn how the Lum and Abner comic strip was revived with family approval and brought to modern audiences. 30:07 Explore how two actors created an entire town through voice and imagination alone. 1:00:16 Hear the vision for keeping Lum and Abner alive for new generations through comics and audio. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: Donnie Pitchford of Texas is a graduate of Kilgore College, Art Instruction Schools, Stephen F. Austin State University and the University of Texas at Tyler. He has worked in the graphic arts industry and in education, teaching at Hawkins High School, Panola College, and Carthage High School at which he spent 25 years directing CHS-TV, where student teams earned state honors, including state championships, for 20 consecutive years. In 2010, Donnie returned to the endeavor he began at age five: being a cartoonist! The weekly “Lum and Abner" comic strip began in 2011. It is available online and in print and includes an audio production for the blind which features the talents of actors and musicians who donate their time. Donnie has created comic book stories and art for Argo Press of Austin, illustrated children's books, written scripts for the "Dick Tracy" newspaper strip, and produced the science fiction comedy strip "Tib the Rocket Frog." He has collaborated with award-winning writers and cartoonists George Wildman, Nicola Cuti, John Rose, Mike Curtis, Joe Staton, and others. In 2017, Donnie began assisting renowned sculptor Bob Harness and currently sculpts the portraits for the Texas Country Music Hall of Fame plaques. Awards include the 1978 Kilgore College "Who's Who" in Art, an Outstanding Educator Award from the East Texas Chapter of the Texas Society of CPAs in 1993, the CHS "Pine Burr" Dedicatee honor in 2010, and a Distinguished Alumnus Award in 2018 from Spring Hill High School. In 2024, Donnie was inducted into the City of Carthage Main Street Arts Walk of Fame which included the placement of a bronze plaque in the sidewalk and the Key to the City. Donnie and his best friend/wife, Laura, are members of First Methodist Church Carthage, Texas. Donnie is a founding officer of the National Lum and Abner Society and a member of Texas Cartoonists, Ark-La-Tex Cartoonists, Christian Comic Arts Society, and the National Cartoonists Society. Ways to connect with Michaela**:** https://www.facebook.com/groups/220795254627542 https://lumandabnercomics.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I've been looking forward to this one for a while. We have Donny Pitchford as our guest today. You're probably going, who's Donnie Pitchford? Well, let me tell you. So years ago, I started collecting old radio shows. And one of the first shows that I got was a half hour episode of a show called Lum and Abner, which is about a couple of characters, if you will, in Pine Ridge, Arkansas. And I had only heard the half hour show sponsored by frigid air. But then in 1971 when ksi, out here in Los Angeles, the 50,000 watt Clear Channel station, started celebrating its 50 year history, they started broadcasting as part of what they did, 15 minute episodes of lemon Abner. And I became very riveted to listening to lemon Abner every night, and that went on for quite a while. And so I've kept up with the boys, as it were. Well, a several years ago, some people formed a new Lum and Abner society, and Donnie Pitchford is part of that. I met Donnie through radio enthusiast of Puget Sound, and yesterday, USA. And so we clearly being interested in old radio and all that, had to have Donnie come on and and talk with us. So Donnie, or whatever character you're representing today, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Donnie Pitchford  02:58 Huh? I'm glad to be here. Michael Hingson  03:00 He does that very well, doesn't he? It's a Donnie Pitchford  03:04 little tough sometimes. Well, I'm really glad to be here. Thank you. Michael Hingson  03:10 Well, I appreciate the audio parts of lemon Abner that you you all create every week, and just the whole society. It's great to keep that whole thing going it's kind of fun. We're glad that that it is. But let's, let's talk about you a little bit. Why don't you start by telling us about the early Donnie, growing up and all that. I'm assuming you were born, and so we won't worry about that. But beyond that, think so, yeah. Well, there you are. Tell us about tell us about you and growing up and all that, and we'll go from there. Donnie Pitchford  03:42 Well, I was born in East Texas and left for a little while. We lived in my family lived in Memphis, Tennessee for about seven years, and then moved back to Texas in 1970 but ever since I was a kid this I hear this from cartoonists everywhere. Most of them say I wanted to be a cartoonist when I was five years old. So that's in fact, I had to do a speech for the Texas cartoonist chapter of the National Cartoonist Society. And that was my start. I was going to say the same thing, and the President said, Whatever you do, don't do that old bit about wanting to be a cartoonist at age five. Everybody does that, so I left that part out, but that's really what I wanted to do as a kid. And I would see animated cartoons. I would read the Sunday comics in the Memphis Commercial Appeal, and then at some point, my dad would talk about radio, and my mother would talk about listening to radio. We would have the reruns of the Lone Ranger television show and things like Sky King and other programs along those lines, and my parents would all. Way say, Well, I used to listen to that on the radio, or I would hear Superman on the radio, or Amos and Andy or whatever was being rerun at that time, and that fascinated me. And I had these vague memories of hearing what I thought were television programs coming over the radio when I was about two years old. I remember gunshots. I remember, you know, like a woman crying and just these little oddball things. I was about two years old, and I kept thinking, Well, why are we picking up television programs on my mother's radio? Turns out it was the dying gasps of what we now call old time radio. And so at least I remembered that. But when I was about, I guess eight or nine we were, my dad took me to lunch at alums restaurant in Memphis, and I saw that name, and I thought, What in the world? So what kind of name is that? And my dad told me about London Abner, and he said it reminds me. It reminded him of the Andy Griffith Show or the Beverly Hillbillies. I said, I'd love to hear that. He said, Ah, you'll never hear it. He said, those were live they don't exist, but years later, I got to hear them. So yeah, but that's how I grew up wanting to be a cartoonist and coming up with my own characters and drawing all the time and writing stories and that sort of thing. Michael Hingson  06:24 So when did you move back from Memphis to Texas? Donnie Pitchford  06:28 July 2, 1970 I just happened to look that up the other day. How old were you then? I was 12 when we came back. All right, so got into, I was in junior high, and trying to, I was trying to find an audience for these comic strips I was drawing on notebook paper. And finally, you know, some of the kids got into them, and I just continued with that goal. And I just, I knew that soon as possible, you know, I was going to start drawing comics professionally. So I thought, but kept, you know, I kept trying. Michael Hingson  07:06 So you, you went on into college. What did you do in college? Donnie Pitchford  07:11 Well, more of the same. I started listening to some old time radio shows even as far back as as high school. And I was interested in that went to college, first at a college called Kill Gore College, here in East Texas, and then to Stephen F Austin State University. And I was majoring in, first commercial art, and then art education. And I thought, well, if I can't go right into comics, you know, maybe I can just teach for a while. I thought I'll do that for a couple of years. I thought it wouldn't be that long. But while I was at Stephen F Austin State University, the campus radio station, I was so pleased to find out ran old time radio shows. This was in 1980 there was a professor named Dr Joe Oliver, who had a nightly program called theater of the air. And I would hear this voice come over the radio. He would run, he Well, one of the first, the very first 15 minute lemon Abner show I ever heard was played by Dr Oliver. He played Jack Benny. He played the whistler suspense, just a variety of them that he got from a syndicated package. And I would hear this voice afterwards, come on and say, It's jazz time. I'm Joe Oliver. And I thought, Where have I heard that voice? It was, it's just a magnificent radio voice. Years later, I found out, well, I heard that voice in Memphis when I was about 10 years old on W, R, E, C, radio and television. He was working there. He lived in Memphis about the same time we did. Heard him on the campus station at Nacogdoches, Texas. Didn't meet him in person until the late 90s, and it was just an amazing collection of coincidences. And now, of course, we're good friends. Now he's now the announcer for our audio comic strip. So it's amazing how all that came about. Well, I Michael Hingson  09:16 I remember listening to sort of the last few years of oval radio. I think it was, I don't remember the date now, whether it's 57 or 50 I think it's 57 the Kingston Trio had come out with the song Tom Dooley, and one day I was listening to K and X radio in Los Angeles. We lived in Palmdale, and I heard something about a show called suspense that was going to play the story of Tom Dooley. And I went, sounds interesting, and I wanted to know more about it, so I listened. And that started a weekly tradition with me every Sunday, listening to yours truly Johnny dollar and suspense, and they had a little bit of the FBI and peace and war. Then it's went into half and that that went off and Have Gun Will Travel came on, and then at 630 was Gun Smoke. So I listened to radio for a couple of hours every week, not every Sunday night, and thoroughly enjoyed it. And so that's how I really started getting interested in it. Then after radio went off the air a few stations out in California and on the LA area started playing old radio shows somebody started doing because they got the syndicated versions of the shadow and Sherlock Holmes with Sir John Gielgud and Sir Ralph Richardson. And I still maintain to this day that John Gielgud is the best Sherlock Holmes. No matter what people say about Basil Rathbone and I still think Sir John Gielgud was the best Sherlock Holmes. He was very, very good. Yeah, he was and so listen to those. But you know, radio offers so much. And even with, with, with what the whole lemon Abner shows today. My only problem with the lemon Abner shows today is they don't last nearly long enough. But that's another story. Donnie Pitchford  11:11 Are you talking about the comic strip adaptation? Okay, you know how long, how much art I would have to 11:21 do every week. Michael Hingson  11:25 Oh, I know, but they're, they're fun, and, you know, we, we enjoy them, but so you So you met Joe, and as you said, He's the announcer. Now, which is, which is great, but what were you doing then when you met him? What kind of work were you doing at the time? Donnie Pitchford  11:45 Well, of course, there was a gap there of about, I guess, 15 years after college, before I met him. And what ended up happening my first teaching job was an art job, a teaching art and graphic arts at a small high school in Hawkins, Texas, and that was a disaster. Wasn't a wasn't a very good year for me. And so I left that, and I had worked in the printing industry, I went back to that, and that was all during the time that the National London Abner society was being formed. And so I printed their earliest newsletters, which came out every other month. And we started having conventions in MENA, Arkansas and in the real Pine Ridge and the my fellow ossifers As we we call ourselves, and you hear these guys every week on the lemon Abner comic strip. Sam Brown, who lives in Illinois, Tim Hollis, from Alabama. Tim is now quite a published author who would might be a good guest for you one day, sure. And just two great guys. We had a third officer early on named Rex riffle, who had to leave due to various illnesses about 1991 but we started having our conventions every year, starting in 1985 we had some great guests. We brought in everybody we could find who worked with lemon Abner or who knew lemon Abner. We had their their head writer, Roswell Rogers. We had actors, I'm sure you've heard of Clarence Hartzell. He was Ben withers, of course, on the Old Vic and Sade show. He was Uncle Fletcher. We had Willard Waterman, parley Bayer, some of their announcers, Wendell Niles. And my memory is going to start failing me, because there were so many, but we had Bob's, Watson, Louise curry, who were in their first two movies. We had Kay Lineker, who was in their third movie. The list goes on and on, but we had some amazing when did Chester lock pass away? He passed away? Well, Tuffy passed away first, 1978, 78 and Chet died in 1980 sad. Neither of them, yeah, we didn't get to media. Yeah, we didn't meet either one of them. I've met Mrs. Lock I've met all of chet's children, several grandchildren. We spoke to Mrs. Goff on the phone a time or two, and also, tuffy's got toughie's daughter didn't get to meet them in person, but we met as many of the family as we could. Michael Hingson  14:32 Still quite an accomplishment all the way around. And so you you taught. You didn't have success. You felt really much at first, but then what you taught for quite a while, though, Donnie Pitchford  14:45 didn't you? Yes, I went back to the printing industry for about a year, and in the summer of 85 about two weeks before school started, I had got a call that they needed someone to teach Broadcast Journalism at. Carthage High School, and we had a department called CHS TV. I ran that for 25 years. I taught classes. We produced a weekly television program, weekly radio program. We did all kinds of broadcasts for the school district and promotional video. And then in the last I think it was the last 10 years or so that I worked there, we started an old time radio show, and we were trying to come up with a title for it, and just as a temporary placeholder, we called it the golden age of radio. Finally, we said, well, let's just use that, and I think it's been used by other people since, but, but that was the title we came up with. I think in 19 I think it was in 93 or 9495 somewhere in there. We started out. We just ran Old Time Radio, and the students, I would have them research and introduce, like, maybe 45 minutes of songs, of music, you know, from the 30s, 40s, maybe early 50s, big band and Sinatra and Judy Garland and you name it. Then, when the classes would change, we would always start some type of radio program that was pre recorded that would fill that time, so the next class could come in and get in place and and everybody participated, and they went out live over our cable television channel, and we would just run a graphic of a radio and maybe have some announcements or listing of what we were playing. And we did that for several years, usually maybe two or three times a year. And then in I think it was 2004 or so, we had an offer from a low power FM station, which was another another county over, and we started doing a Sunday night, one hour program each week. And I think we ended up doing close to 300 of those before I left. And so we got old time radio in there, one way or the other. Michael Hingson  17:03 Well, I remember. I remember, for me, I went to UC Irvine in the fall of 1968 and by the spring the last quarter of my freshman year, I had started getting some old radio shows. So started playing shows, and then in the fall, I started doing a three hour show on Sunday night called the Radio Hall of Fame, and we did radio every night. And what I didn't know until, actually, fairly recently, was our mutual friend Walden Hughes actually listened to my show on Sunday, and so did the gas means actually, but, but we had a low power station as well, but it made it up, and so people listened to it. And I've always been proud of the fact that during the fact that during the time I ran the Radio Hall of Fame, I'd heard of this show called 60 minutes with a guy named Mike Wallace, but never got to see it. And then it was only much later that I actually ended up starting to watch 60 Minutes. Course, I always loved to say I would have loved to have met, met Mike Wallace and never got to do it, but I always said he had criminal tendencies. I mean, my gosh, what do you think he was the announcer on radio for the Green Hornet, a criminal show, right? Sky King, a lot of criminals. Clearly the guy. Anyway, I would have been fun to meet him, but, Donnie Pitchford  18:31 and his name was Myron. Myron Wallach at the time. Wallach, you're right. I think that's right. Michael Hingson  18:37 But it was, it was fun and and so I've actually got some Sky King shows and green Hornets with him. So it's, it's kind of cool, but Right? You know, I still really do believe that the value of radio is it makes you imagine more. I've seen some movies that I really like for that the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers with Kevin McCarthy back in 1955 I thought was such a good movie because they didn't show the plants taking over the humans. It was all left to your imagination, which was so cool, and they changed all that in the later remake of it with Leonard Nimoy, which I didn't think was nearly as good, not nearly as suspenseful. But anyway, that's just my opinion. But radio, for me was always a and continues to be a part of what I like to do. And so I've been collecting shows and and enjoying and, of course, listening to lemon Abner, So what made you decide to finally end teaching? Donnie Pitchford  19:38 Well, you know, I could only do that so long. I was getting I was getting very tired, getting kind of burned out, and I had to have a change. There's something had to change. And I was able to take a few years early and retire, and I still the whole time I had a. That it was like a haunting feeling. I, you know, I wanted to be a cartoonist. I would pray, you know, you know, Lord, is there some way can I, can I get out of this? And can I do what I really want to do? And I had some mentors that was finally able to meet people that I would write letters to as a kid, a cartoonist and comic book editor named George Wildman was one of them. He was nice enough to answer my letters when I was a kid, and I'd send him drawings, and he would encourage me, or he would send little corrections on there, you know. And another one was a gentleman named high Eisemann, who passed away recently at age 98 on his birthday, but men like this inspired me, and that it kept at me through the years. I finally met George in 1994 at a convention of the the international Popeye fan club. And I'm I'm at high the same way, and also a writer named Nicola Cuddy, who wrote some Popeye comics. I met him the same way, same event, we all became friends, and I had a good friend named Michael Ambrose of Austin, Texas, who published a magazine devoted to the Charlton Comics company. Sadly, he's deceased now, but Mike and I were talking before I retired, and finally I got out of it. And he said, now that you're out of that job, how would you like to do some art? I said, That's what I want to do. So he gave me the opportunity to do my first published work, which was a portrait of artist George Wildman. It was on the cover of a magazine called Charlton spotlight, then I did some work for Ben Omar, who is bear Manor media publisher for some books that he was doing. One was Mel Blanc biography that Noel blank wrote, did some illustrations for that. This was all happening in 2010 and after that. So I was getting it was getting rolling, doing the kind of work I really wanted to do. And there's a gentleman named Ethan nobles in Benton, Arkansas, who wanted to interview me. I'd gotten, I don't know how he I forgot how he got in touch with me. Maybe he heard me on yesterday USA could be wanted to interview me about London Abner. And so he was starting a website called first Arkansas news. And somewhere in early 2011 we were talking, and I said, you know, you want this to be an online newspaper, right? He said, Yes. I said, What about comics? He said, I hadn't thought about that. So I said, Well, you know, you're a big Lum and Abner fan. What if we could we do a Lum and Abner comic strip? He said, Well, who would Where would I get? Who would do? And I said, Me. So I drew up some proposals, I drew some model sheets, and we did about four weeks of strips, and got approval from Chester lock Jr, and he suggested there's some things he didn't like. He said, The lum looks too sinister. He looks mean. Well, he's mad. He said he's mad at Abner. This won't happen every week. He said, Okay, I don't want LOM to be I said, Well, you know, they get mad at each other. That's part of the that's the conflict and the comedy Michael Hingson  23:30 at each other. Yeah. Donnie Pitchford  23:33 So we, we ironed it all out, and we came up with a financial agreement, and had to pay royalties and one thing and another, and we started publishing online in June 2011, and about six weeks later, the MENA newspaper, the MENA star in MENA, Arkansas, which was the birthplace of Lyman, Abner, Chet Locke and Norris Goff, they picked it up, and then we had a few other newspapers pick it up. And you know, we're not, we're not worldwide, syndicated in print, but we're getting it out there. And of course, we're always online, but and the first Arkansas news went under three or four years later, and so now we have our own website, which is Lum and Abner comics.com so that's where you can find us Michael Hingson  24:24 online. So where's Pine Ridge? Donnie Pitchford  24:28 Pine Ridge is about 18 miles from Mena, Arkansas. MENA is in western Arkansas, and Pine Ridge is about 18 miles east, I believe I'm trying to picture it in my mind, but it's it's down the road, and it actually exists. It was a little community originally named for a postmaster. It was named waters, waters, Arkansas, and in 1936 the real. At cuddleston. He was a real person who owned a store there in waters, and was friends with the locks and the golfs with their parents, as well as Chet and Tuffy. But he proposed a publicity stunt and an actual change of name to name the community Pine Ridge. So that's how that happened. Michael Hingson  25:24 Now, in the original 15 minute episodes, who is the narrator? Donnie Pitchford  25:28 Well, it depends what era their first one trying to remember. Now, Gene Hamilton was an early announcer in the Ford days, which was the early 30s. We don't have anything recorded before that. Charles Lyon was one of the early announcers, possibly for for Quaker Oats. I don't have any notes on this in front of me. I'm just going on memory here. Memory at the end of a long week. Gene Hamilton was their Ford announcer. Carlton brickert announced the Horlicks malt and milk did the commercials when they 1934 to 38 or so. Lou Crosby took over when they were sponsored by General Foods, by post them, the post them commercials, and Lou stayed with them on into the Alka Seltzer era. And his daughter, the celebrity daughter, is Kathie Lee Crosby, you may remember, right, and she and her sister Linda, Lou were a couple of our guests at the National lemon Avenue society convention in 1996 I think let's see. Crosby was Gene Baker came after Crosby, and then in the 30 minute days, was Wendell Niles. Wendell Niles, yeah, in the CBS the 30 minute series and Wendell. We also had him in Mina, super nice guy when it came, when it got into the later ones, 1953 54 I don't remember that announcer's name. That's when they got into the habit of having Dick Huddleston do the opening narration, which is why we now have Sam Brown as Dick Huddleston doing that every week. Michael Hingson  27:27 So was it actually Dick Huddleston? No, it Donnie Pitchford  27:30 was North golf, tough. He always played the part of Dick Huddleston. Okay, the only, the only time that, as far as I know, the only time the real dick Huddleston was on network radio, was at that ceremony in Little Rock Arkansas, when they changed the name of the town that the real dick Huddleston spoke at that event. And we actually, we discovered a recording of that. I was just gonna ask if there's a recording of that there is. Yeah, it's on 12 inch, 78 RPM discs. Wow. And they were probably the personal discs of lock and golf, and they weren't even labeled. And I remember spinning that thing when Sam Brown and I after we found it, it was down in Houston, and we brought them a batch of discs back, and I remember spinning that thing and hearing the theme song being played, I said, this sounds like a high school band. And suddenly we both got chills because we had heard that. I don't know if it was the Little Rock High School band or something, but it's like, Can this be? Yes, it was. It was. We thought it was long lost, but it was that ceremony. Wow. So that was a great find. Michael Hingson  28:45 Well, hopefully you'll, you'll play that sometime, or love to get a copy, but, Donnie Pitchford  28:50 yeah, we've, we have we played it on yesterday, USA. Oh, okay, so it's out there. Michael Hingson  28:57 Well, that's cool. Well, yeah, I wondered if Dick Huddleston actually ever was directly involved, but, but I can, can appreciate that. As you said, Tuffy Goff was the person who played him, which was, that's still that was pretty cool. They were very talented. Go ahead, Donnie Pitchford  29:19 I was gonna say that's basically tough. He's natural speaking voice, yeah, when you hear him as Dick Huddleston, Michael Hingson  29:24 they're very talented people. They played so many characters on the show. They did and and if you really listen, you could tell, but mostly the voices sounded enough different that they really sounded like different people all the time. Donnie Pitchford  29:41 Well, the fun thing are the episodes where, and it's carefully written, but they will, they will do an episode where there may be seven or eight people in the room and they get into an argument, or they're trying to all talk at the same time, and you completely forget that it's only two guys, because they will overlap. Those voices are just so perfectly overlapped and so different, and then you stop and you listen. So wait a minute, I'm only hearing two people at a time, but the effect is tremendous, the fact that they were able to pull that off and fool the audience. Michael Hingson  30:15 I don't know whether I'd say fool, but certainly entertained. Well, yeah, but they also did have other characters come on the show. I remember, yes, Diogenes was that was a lot of fun listening to those. Oh yeah, yeah, that was Frank Graham. Frank Graham, right, right, but, but definitely a lot of fun. So you eventually left teaching. You decided you accepted jobs, starting to do cartoons. What were some of the other or what, well, what were some of the first and early characters that you cartooned, or cartoons that you created, Donnie Pitchford  30:50 just, you mean, by myself or Well, or with people, either way, I did some things that were not published, you know, just just personal characters that I came up with it would mean nothing to anybody, but a little bit later on, I did a little bit of I did a cover for a Popeye comic book. Maybe 10 years ago, I finally got a chance to work with George Wildman, who was the fellow I talked about earlier, and it was some of the last work he did, and this was with Michael Ambrose of Argo press out of Austin, Texas. And we did some early characters that had been published by Charlton Comics. They had, they had characters, they were, they were rip offs. Let's be honest. You know Harvey had Casper the Friendly Ghost. Well, Charlton had Timmy, the timid ghost. There, there was Mighty Mouse. Well, Charlton Comics had atomic mouse, so and there was an atomic rabbit. And Warner Brothers had Porky Pig. Charlton had pudgy pig, but that was some of George's earliest work in the 1950s was drawing these characters, and George was just he was a master Bigfoot cartoonist. I mean, he was outstanding. And so Mike said, let's bring those characters back. They're public domain. We can use them. So I wrote the scripts. George did the pencil art. Well, he inked the first few, but Mike had me do hand lettering, which I don't do that much. So it was that was a challenge. And my friend high Iseman taught lettering for years and years, and so I was thinking, high is going to see this? This has to be good. So I probably re lettered it three times to get it right, but we did the very last story we did was atomic rabbit and pudgy pig was a guest star, and then George's character named brother George, who was a little monk who didn't speak, who lived, lived in a monastery, and did good deeds and all that sort of thing. He was in there, and this was the last thing we did together. And George said, you know, since I've got these other projects, he said, Do you think you can, you can ink this? So that was a great honor to actually apply the inks over George's pencil work. And I also did digital color, but those were some things I worked on, and, oh, at one point we even had Lum and Abner in the Dick Tracy Sunday comic strip, and that was because of a gentleman named Mike Curtis, who was the writer who lived in Arkansas, was very familiar with Lum and Abner, and he got in touch with me and asked, this was in 2014 said, Would it be possible for me to use Lum and Abner in a Sunday cameo? So I contacted the locks. First thing they first thing Chet said was how much I said, I don't think they're going to pay us. I felt like, Cedric, we hunt, no mom, you know. And I felt like he was squire skimp at the time, yeah, but I said, it's just going to be really good publicity. So he finally went for it, and Lum and Abner had a cameo in a Sunday Dick Tracy comic strip, and about four years later, they honored me. This was Mike Curtis, the writer, and Joe Staton, the artist, who was another guy that I grew up reading from as a teenager, just a tremendous artist, asked if they could base a character on me. And I thought, what kind of murderer is he going to be? You know, it was going to be idiot face or what's his name, you know. So no, he was going to be a cartoonist, and the name was Peter pitchblende. Off, and he was, he said his job was to illustrate a comic strip about a pair of old comedians. So, I mean, who couldn't be honored by that? Yeah, so I don't remember how long that story lasted, but it was an honor. I mean, it was just great fun. And then then I had a chance to write two weeks of Dick Tracy, which was fun. I wrote the scripts for it and and then there's some other things. I was able to work with John rose, a tremendously nice guy who is the current artist on Barney Google and Snuffy Smith. We did a story, a comic book story, on Barney Google on Snuffy Smith in a magazine called Charleton spotlight, and I did the colors, digital coloring for that. So just these are just great honors to me to get to work with people like that. And Nick Cuddy, I did some inking, lettering coloring on some of his work. So just great experience, and Michael Hingson  36:02 great people, going back to atomic rabbit and pudgy pig, no one ever got in trouble with, from Warner Brothers with that, huh? Donnie Pitchford  36:09 Well, not, not on atomic rabbit, however, pudgy pig created a problem because George was doing some art, and I think somebody from Warner Brothers said he looks too much like Porky, so the editor at the time said, make one of his ears hang down, make him look a little different. But pudgy didn't last long. Pudgy was only around maybe two or three issues of the comic book, so, but yeah, that's George. Said they did have some trouble with that. Michael Hingson  36:44 Oh, people, what do you do? Yeah, well, I know you sent us a bunch of photos, and we have some of the Dick Tracy ones and others that people can go see. But what? What finally got you all to start the whole lemon Abner society. Donnie Pitchford  37:07 Oh, well, that goes back to 1983 right, and I'll go back even farther than that. I told you that my dad had mentioned lemon Abner to me as a kid. Dr Joe Oliver played a 15 minute lemon Abner show on KSA you at Stephen F Austin State University. That got me. I was already into old time radio, but it was the next summer 1981 there's a radio station, an am station in Gilmer, Texas Christian radio station that started running Lum and Abner every day. First it was 530 in the evening, and then I think they switched it to 1215 or so. And I started listening, started setting up my recorder, recording it every day. And a friend of mine named David Miller, who was also a radio show collector, lived in the Dallas area, I would send them to him, and at first he wasn't impressed, but then suddenly he got hooked. And when he got hooked, he got enthusiastic. He started making phone calls. He called Mrs. Lock chet's widow and talked to her. He spoke to a fellow who had written a number of articles, George Lily, who was an early proponent or an early promoter of lemon Abner, as far as reruns in the 1960s and it was through George Lilly that I was put in touch with Sam Brown in Dongola, Illinois, and because he had contacted Mr. Lilly as well. And before long, we were talking, heard about this guy named Tim Hollis. Sam and I met in Pine Ridge for lemon Abner day in 1982 for the first time, and hit it off like long lost friends and became very good friends. And then in 84 I believe it was Sam and Tim and Rex riffle met again, or met for the first time together, I guess in Pine Ridge. And I wasn't there that time. But somehow, in all of that confusion, it was proposed to start the national lemon Abner society, and we started publishing the Jot them down journal in the summer of 1984 Michael Hingson  39:43 and for those who don't know the Jotham down journal, because the store that lemon Abner ran was the Jotham down store anyway, right? Donnie Pitchford  39:50 Go ahead, yes. And that was Tim's title. Tim created the title The Jotham down journal, and we started publishing and started seeking information. And it started as just a simple photocopy on paper publication. It became a very slick publication. In 1990 or 91 Sam started recording cassettes, reading the journals, because we were hearing from Blind fans that said, you know, I enjoy the journal. I have to have somebody read it to me. This is before screen readers. And of course, you know this technology better than I do, but before any type of technology was available, and Sam said, Well, I'll tell you. I'll just start reading it on tape and I'll make copies. Just started very simply, and from then on, until the last issue in in 2007 Sam would record a cassette every other month, or when we went quarterly, four times a year, and he would mail those to the the blind members, who would listen to those. And sometimes they would keep them, and sometimes they would return them for Sam to recycle. But incidentally, those are all online now, Michael Hingson  41:03 yeah, I've actually looked at a few of those. Those are kind of fun. So the London Avenue society got formed, and then you started having conventions. Donnie Pitchford  41:14 Yes, yes. First convention was in 1985 and we did a lot of things with we would do recreations. We would do a lot of new scripts, where, if we had someone that we got to the point where we would have people that hadn't worked with lemon Abner. So we would have lemon Abner meet the great Gildersleeve. Actually, Willard had worked on the lumen Abner half hour show at some point. I believe les Tremain had never worked directly with them, but he was well, he was in some Horlicks malted milk commercials in the 1930s and of course, the Lone Ranger was never on the London Abner show and vice versa, until we got hold of it. So we had Fred Foy in 1999 and he agreed to be the announcer, narrator and play the part of the Lone Ranger. So we did Lum and Abner meet the Lone Ranger, which was a lot of fun. We had parley bear, so Lum and Abner met Chester of Gun Smoke. And those were just a lot of fun to do. And Tim, Tim would write some of them, I would write some of them, or we would collaborate back and forth to come up with these scripts. Did love and amner, ever meet Superman? No, we never got to that. That would have been great. Yeah, if we could have come up with somebody who had played Superman, that would have been a lot of fun. We had lemon Abner meet Kathie Lee Crosby as herself. Yeah, they met Frank brazzi One time. That must be fun. It was a lot of fun. We had some people would recreate the characters. We had the lady who had played Abner's daughter, Mary Lee Rob replay. She played that character again, 50 years later, coming back home to see, you know, to see family. Several other things, we had London Abner meet Gumby one time. Of all things, we had Dow McKinnon as a guest. And we had Kay Lineker come back and reprise one of her roles, the role she played in the London Abner movie. Bob's Watson did that as well. Some years we didn't have a script, which I regret, but we had other things going on. We had anniversaries of London Abner movies that we would play. So whatever we did, we tailored it around our guest stars, like Dick Beals, Sam Edwards, Roby Lester, gee whiz. I know I'm leaving people out. Michael Hingson  43:52 Well, that's okay, but, but certainly a lot of fun. What? Yes, what? Cartoonist really influenced you as a child? Donnie Pitchford  44:01 Oh, wow. I would say the first thing I saw that got my attention was the Flintstones on on prime time television, you know, the Hanna Barbera prime time things certainly Walt Disney, the animation that they would run, that he would show, and the behind the scenes, things that would be on the Disney show, things like almost almost anything animated as a kid, got my attention. But Walter Lance, you know, on the Woody Woodpecker show used to have, he'd have little features about how animation was done, and that that inspired me, that that just thrilled me. And I read Fred lachel's Snuffy Smith Chester Gould's Dick Tracy. Tracy, which that was a that's why the Dick Tracy connection, later was such a big deal for me. Almost anything in the Sunday comics that was big. Foot. In other words, the cartoony, exaggerated characters are called, sometimes called Bigfoot, Bigfoot cartooning, or Bigfoot characters. Those were always the things I looked for, Bugs Bunny, any of the people that worked on those some were anonymous. And years later, I started learning the names of who drew Popeye, you know, like LZ seagar, the originator, or bud sagendorf or George Wildman, and later high eysman. But people like that were my heroes. Later on, I was interested in I would read the Batman comics, or I would see Tarzan in the newspaper. I admired the work of Russ Manning. Michael Hingson  45:49 Do you know the name Tom Hatton? Yes, I do. Yeah. Yes. Tom did Popeye shows on KTLA Channel Five when I was growing up, and he was famous for, as he described it, squiggles. He would make a squiggle and he would turn it into something. And he was right on TV, which was so much fun. Donnie Pitchford  46:09 We had a guy in Memphis who did the same thing. His name was, he's known as Captain Bill, C, A, P, you know, Captain Bill. And he did very much the same thing. He'd have a child come up, I think some, in some cases, they're called drools. Is one word for them. There was a yeah, in Tim hollis's area, there was cousin Cliff Holman who did that. And would he might have a kid draw a squiggle, and then he would create something from it right there on the spot, a very similar type of thing, or a letter of the alphabet, or your initials, that sort Michael Hingson  46:43 of thing. Yeah. Tom did that for years. It was fun. Of course, I couldn't see them, but he talked enough that I knew what was going on. It's kind of fun. My brother loved them, yeah? So later on, when you got to be a teenager and beyond what cartoonist maybe influenced you more? Donnie Pitchford  47:03 Well, I would have to say George, probably because I was corresponding with him, right? Also, I would see the work of Carl Barks, who created Uncle Scrooge McDuck and the Donald Duck comics and all that. His stuff was all in reprint at that time, he was still living, but I didn't know he could be contacted. I didn't try to write to it, right? Years later, years later, I did get an autograph, which was, was very nice. But those people, a lot of people, Neil Adams, who did Batman, the guys at Charlton Comics, Steve Ditko, who was the CO creator of spider man, but he had a disagreement with Stan Lee, and went back to Charlton Comics and just turned out 1000s of pages, but his work was was inspirational. Another was Joe Staton, who was working at Charleton comics, who I got to work with on several projects later on, and I would say just all of those guys that I was reading at the time. Pat Boyette was another Charlton artist. I tend to gravitate toward the Charlton company because their artists weren't contained in a house style. They were allowed to do their own style. They didn't pay as much. But a lot of them were either older guys that said, I'm tired of this, of the DC Marvel system. I want to just, you know, have creative freedom. Charlton said, come on. And so they would work there and less stress, less money, probably one guy named Don Newton started there and became a legend in the industry at other companies. So I found all of those guys inspiring, and I felt I could learn from all of them. Michael Hingson  48:59 Well, you always wanted to be a cartoonist. Did you have any other real career goals, like, was teaching a goal that you wanted to do, or was it just cartooning it? Donnie Pitchford  49:07 Well, it was just a secondary, you know, as I said, when I started, I thought, I'll just do that for a few years. You know, I didn't know it was going to be like 27 but I we had a lot of success. We had, I had some student groups that would enter video competitions. And for 20 straight years, we placed either first, second or third in state competition with one Summit, one entry, another or another every year. And that was notable. I mean, I give the kids the credit for that. But then about five or six of those years, we had what we call state championship wins, you know, we were like the number one project in the state of Texas. So, you know, we had some great success, I think, in that so a lot of years there, I really, you know, that was a blessing to me. Was that career, you. Well, it just, it just got to be too much time for change. After a while, Michael Hingson  50:05 was art just a talent that you had, and cartoon drawing a talent you had, or, I don't remember how much you said about did you have any real special training as such? Donnie Pitchford  50:14 Well, all of my training was, I just couldn't afford to go to a specialized school. You know, at one time, the Joe Kubert School opened just about the time I graduated high school, it was in New Jersey. I just couldn't make that happen, so I went to state colleges and universities and did the best I could. I took commercial art classes, drawing classes, design classes, even ceramics, which came in very handy when I did some sculpting here in the last eight or nine years and worked as an assistant to a sculptor named Bob harness who lives here in Carthage, but I never had any actual comic strip slash comic book training, so I learned as much of that as I could from guys like George wild. And then after I started the lemon Avenue comic strip, an artist named Joe, named Jim Amish, who worked for Marvel, did a lot of work for the Archie Comics. And tremendous anchor is his. He's really a tremendous anchor, and does a lot of ink work over other artists pencils. Jim would call and say, he said, I want to give you some advice. I'm like, okay, at 3am he's still giving me advice. So I'd go around for two or three days feeling like a failure, but then I would, I would think about all the lessons, you know, that he had told me. And so I learned a lot from Jim and tremendous, tremendous guy. And I would listen to what high, sometimes high would call up and say, Why did you use that purple beg your pardon. So it was fun. I mean, those fellows would share with me, and I learned a great deal from those guys. Michael Hingson  52:11 Are you in any way passing that knowledge on to others today? Donnie Pitchford  52:16 I don't know that I am. I've had an offer or two to do some teaching. I just don't know if I'm if I'm going to get back into that or not. Yeah, I'm so at this point, focused on, quote, unquote, being a cartoonist and trying to make that, that age five dream, a reality, that I'm not sure I'm ready to do that again. And you know, I'm not, I'm not 21 anymore. Michael Hingson  52:45 I didn't know whether you were giving advice to people and just sort of informally doing it, as opposed to doing formal teaching. Donnie Pitchford  52:51 Well, informally, yes, I mean, if anybody asks, you know, I'll be glad to share whatever I can. But yeah, I'm not teaching any classes at this point. Michael Hingson  53:01 Well, you have certainly taken lemon Abner to interesting places in New Heights. One, one thing that attracted me and we talked about it before, was in 2019, lemon Abner in Oz. That was fun. Donnie Pitchford  53:17 Well, the credit for that goes to Tim Hollis. Tim wrote that as a short story years ago when he was first interested in lemon Abner. And I don't know if he ever had that published through the International oz society or not. I don't remember, but Tim later turned that into a radio script when we had a batch of guests. This was in 2001 we had, let's see Sam Edwards, Dick Beals, Roby Lester and Rhoda Williams. And each of them had done something related to Oz, either the children's records or storybook records or animation or something. They were involved somewhere in some type of Oz adaptation. So Tim turned his short story into a radio script that we performed there at the convention. So that was a lot of fun. And then he suggested, Why don't I turn that into a comic strip story? So that's what we did. But that was fun, yeah, and we used the recordings of those people because they had given us permission, you know, to use a recording however we saw fit. The only problem is we had a mistake. The fellow that was running the sound had a dead mic and didn't know it. Oh, gosh. So some of them are bit Off mic in that audio, but we did the best. I did the best I could Michael Hingson  54:40 with it's it sounded good. I certainly have no complaints. 54:45 Thank you for that. Michael Hingson  54:47 I I said no complaints at all. I think it was really fun and very creative. And it's kind of really neat to see so much creativity in terms of all the stuff that that you do. As a cartoonist, me having never seen cartoons, but I learned intellectually to appreciate the talent that goes into it. And of course, you guys do put the scripts together every week, which is a lot of fun to be able to listen to them well. Donnie Pitchford  55:17 And that's what that was, the audience I hoped that we would would tap into right there and it, it was guys like you that would would talk to me and say, What am I going to do? You know, I can't see it. So that's why the audio idea came about. And it's taken on a life of its own, really. And we've got Mark Ridgway, who has created a lot of musical cues for us that we use and Michael Hingson  55:45 who plays the organ? Donnie Pitchford  55:47 That's Mark Ridgway. It is Mark, okay, yes, yes. And it's actually digital, I'm sure. I think it's a digital keyboard, Michael Hingson  55:55 yeah, but it is. It's a, it's a really good sounding one, though. Donnie Pitchford  55:59 Yes, yes. There are a few cues that I did, which probably are the ones that don't sound so good, like if we ever need really bad music. If you remember the story we did, and I don't remember the name of it, what do we call it anyway? Lum tries to start a soap opera. Think this was about a year ago. Yeah, and Cedric is going to play, I don't remember it was an organ or a piano, and I don't remember what he played, but whatever it was, I think was Mary Had Michael Hingson  56:32 a Little Lamb, Mary's, Mary Had a Little Lamb on the piano. Sort of kind played. Donnie Pitchford  56:35 It was played very badly, well that, yes, it was on purpose. When mom plays lum tries to play the saxophone. That was me, and I hadn't played this. I used to play the sax. In fact, I played in a swing orchestra here in Carthage, Texas for about five years back in from the early 90s. And so I had this idea, and I hadn't played the horn probably since, probably in 20 years, and his. So I got it out, and I thought, you know, it's gonna sound terrible because it needs maintenance, but it doesn't matter. It's lump playing it, so I got to play really badly. Michael Hingson  57:14 It was perfect. It was perfect, Donnie Pitchford  57:16 yeah, because it had to sound bad. Michael Hingson  57:19 How do y'all create all these different plots. I remember so many, like the buzzard, you know, and, oh yeah, that was fun. And so many. How do you come up with those? Donnie Pitchford  57:28 Well, I used to get some really good ideas while mowing the yard. Don't ask me, why? Or I get ideas. I get ideas in the weirdest thing, weirdest places. Sometimes I have ideas in the shower. You know, I said, I better write this down. Sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night with an idea, but there the ideas just come to me. Yeah? The buzzard was fun. I'd had that one. Pretty creative. Yeah, the one about, the one about, let me see. Oh, there was one we did, where wasn't the buzzard? What was that other one? I called the Whisper? Yeah, there was a strange voice that was coming lum thought it was coming from his radio. And he turns his radio off, and He still hears it, and it was a villain who had somehow hypnotized everyone so that they wouldn't see him and he would use his voice only. And then there's a character I came up with, and let me see Larry Gasman played it, and I called him Larry John Walden, and he was the only guy he was blind. He was the only guy that wasn't hypnotized because he couldn't see the you know, I use the old thing about the watch in front of the eyes. I mean, he was the only guy that wasn't hypnotized, so he wasn't fooled by the whisper, and he could track him, because his hearing was so acute that he was able to find him. In fact, I think he could hear his watch ticking or something like that. So he was the hero of that piece. But, well, I just, I just think up ideas and write them down. Tim Hollis has written some of the scripts, maybe three or four for me, I've adapted some scripts that London Abner did that were never broadcast or that were never recorded. Rather, I've adapted a few, written several, and I keep saying, Well, when I completely run out of ideas, I'll just have to quit. Michael Hingson  59:32 Well, hopefully that never happens. What? What are your future plans? Donnie Pitchford  59:38 Well, right now, there's nothing major in the works other than just maintaining the strip, trying to continue it, trying to make it entertaining, and hopefully doing a little work on the website and getting it into the hands of more people. And I'd like to increase. Least newspaper coverage, if at all possible. And because this thing doesn't, you know, it's got to pay for itself somehow. So you know, I'm not getting rich by any means. But you know, I want to keep it fun. I want to keep having fun with it. Hopefully people will enjoy it. Hopefully we can reach younger readers, listeners, and hopefully lemon Abner can appeal to even younger audiences yet, so that we can keep those characters going. Michael Hingson  1:00:29 Yeah, there's so much entertainment there. I hope that happens now in the the life of Donnie Pitchford. Is there a wife and kids? Donnie Pitchford  1:00:40 Yes, there's a wife of almost 40 years. We unfortunately don't have any children. We've almost feel like we adopted several children all the years we were teaching. We we've adopted several cats along the way. And so, you know, we've had cats as pets for almost ever, since we were married. But that's she's, she's great, you know, she's, she's been my best friend and supporter all these years. And we were members of first Methodist Church here in Carthage, Texas, and doing some volunteer work there, and helping to teach Sunday school, and very involved and active in that church. Michael Hingson  1:01:19 So I have a cat, and I hear her outside, not outside the house, but outside the the office here, she wants me to go feed her, and we, we shaved her yesterday because her hair gets long and Matt's very easily. So she got shaved yesterday. So she's probably seeking a little vengeance from that too, but, but my wife and I were married 40 years. She passed away in November of 2022 so it's me and stitch the cat and Alamo the dog, and Karen is monitoring us somewhere. And as I tell everyone, I've got to continue to be a good kid, because if I'm not, I'm going to hear about it. So I got to be good. But it's a lot of fun. Well, I want to thank you for being with us today. This has been a lot of fun. I've learned a lot, but it's just been great to have another podcast talking about old radio shows. And you said again, if people want to reach out, they can go to lemon Abner comics.com if people want to talk to you about doing any kind of cartooning or anything like that. What's the best way they can do that? Donnie Pitchford  1:02:24 Well, they can go to the London Abner dot lumen, Abner comics.com website, and there's a contact a link right there at the top of the page. So yeah, they can contact me through that. Probably that's the easiest way to do it. Michael Hingson  1:02:37 Okay, well, I want to thank you again for being here, and I want to thank all y'all out there. That's how they talk in Texas, right? It's all y'all for everybody. Donnie Pitchford  1:02:46 Well, some of them do, and some of them in Arkansas do too. Well, yeah. Michael Hingson  1:02:49 And then there's some who don't, yeah, y'all means everything, and it Speaker 1  1:02:54 don't, yeah, I don't think squire skimp says it that way. Michael Hingson  1:02:58 Well, Squire, you know, whatever it takes. But I want to thank you all for being here, and please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening or watching the podcast. Donnie would appreciate it. I would appreciate it, and also give us a review. We'd love to get your reviews, so please do that. If you can think of anyone else who ought to be a guest, and I think Donnie has already suggested a few. So Donnie as well, anyone else who ought to come on the podcast, we'd love it. Appreciate you introducing us, and you know, we'll go from there. And I know at some point in the future, the Michael hingson Group Inc is going to be a sponsor, because we've started that process for lemon. Abner, yes, thank you. Thank you. So I want to, I want to thank love and Squire for that 1:03:45 years. Well, it's been my pleasure. Michael Hingson  1:03:50 Well, thank you all and again, really, seriously, Donnie, I really appreciate you being here. This has been a lot of fun. So thank you for coming. Donnie Pitchford  1:03:58 Thank you. It's been a great honor. I've appreciated it very much. Michael Hingson  1:04:06 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Join the Conversation at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222. Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Is America on the brink of another endless war—or witnessing a swift strategic reset in the Middle East? In Hour 1, John Rush dives headfirst into the escalating conflict with Iran, pushing back against what he calls political fear-mongering from both sides. Do you really need to “gun up,” or is that just opportunism wrapped in panic? John breaks down the War Powers Act, defends presidential authority, and calls out Colorado lawmakers for repeating what he sees as scripted talking points. Is Congress misunderstanding the Constitution—or deliberately distorting it? And could this conflict be over in weeks, not years? He also shares a powerful story from a recent trip to Cabo—an encounter with a self-deported immigrant that sparks a bigger question: Should America create a fast-track path for productive, merit-based citizenship? Plus, insight from caller John on sleeper cells, the Strait of Hormuz, and whether Governor Jared Polis is quietly positioning himself for a 2028 presidential run. Is Iran collapsing faster than the headlines suggest? And is the political class ready for what comes next? HOUR 2 Is the spike in gas prices real—or just market emotion? John opens Hour 2, breaking down oil at $70 a barrel and explaining why America is far less dependent on Middle East imports than a decade ago. Are we reacting to headlines instead of facts? He then tackles the political fallout from the Iran strikes, arguing critics misunderstand presidential war powers—and suggesting deeper ideological roots behind today's anti-Trump sentiment. Is cultural conditioning shaping the national divide more than we realize? The mood shifts when Richard Rush joins the show to talk NASCAR and leadership. How did Michael Jordan's 23XI Racing make history by winning the first three races of the season? Is greatness transferable—and could Jordan's ownership revive the sport? The hour wraps with a car review of the 2026 Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max Platinum—a three-row SUV blending hybrid efficiency, 362 horsepower, all-wheel drive, and family-focused practicality without requiring a plug-in. Is this the sweet spot for modern families? HOUR 3 Hour 3 of Rush To Reason dives straight into high-stakes global politics and Colorado controversy. John Rush welcomes Jim Pfaff of The Conservative Caucus to break down the escalating conflict with Iran. Is this a calculated, strategic reset of the global stage? Could weakening Iran reshape Russia, China, and even Ukraine? And is President Trump executing a bold, short-term operation—or taking a historic gamble? The War Powers Act, congressional authority, and America's long-term foreign policy all come under the microscope. Later, Michael Smith, State Director for the National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB), joins John to sound the alarm on Colorado's HB 1054. Is this really about worker safety—or a new layer of regulation that could crush small businesses? What happens when state government stacks enforcement on top of federal OSHA? John also tackles Denver Mayor Mike Johnston's order to shield residents from ICE. Can a city legally interfere with federal immigration enforcement—or is this political grandstanding aimed at national headlines? Big questions. High stakes. You won't want to miss it. Guest Timestamps 1:09 – Jim Pfaff – The Conservative Caucus. https://theconservativecaucus.com/ 29:08 – Michael Smith, National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB) https://www.nfib.com/

Join the Conversation at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222. Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Is America on the brink of another endless war—or witnessing a swift strategic reset in the Middle East? In Hour 1, John Rush dives headfirst into the escalating conflict with Iran, pushing back against what he calls political fear-mongering from both sides. Do you really need to “gun up,” or is that just opportunism wrapped in panic? John breaks down the War Powers Act, defends presidential authority, and calls out Colorado lawmakers for repeating what he sees as scripted talking points. Is Congress misunderstanding the Constitution—or deliberately distorting it? And could this conflict be over in weeks, not years? He also shares a powerful story from a recent trip to Cabo—an encounter with a self-deported immigrant that sparks a bigger question: Should America create a fast-track path for productive, merit-based citizenship? Plus, insight from caller John on sleeper cells, the Strait of Hormuz, and whether Governor Jared Polis is quietly positioning himself for a 2028 presidential run. Is Iran collapsing faster than the headlines suggest? And is the political class ready for what comes next? HOUR 2 Is the spike in gas prices real—or just market emotion? John opens Hour 2, breaking down oil at $70 a barrel and explaining why America is far less dependent on Middle East imports than a decade ago. Are we reacting to headlines instead of facts? He then tackles the political fallout from the Iran strikes, arguing critics misunderstand presidential war powers—and suggesting deeper ideological roots behind today's anti-Trump sentiment. Is cultural conditioning shaping the national divide more than we realize? The mood shifts when Richard Rush joins the show to talk NASCAR and leadership. How did Michael Jordan's 23XI Racing make history by winning the first three races of the season? Is greatness transferable—and could Jordan's ownership revive the sport? The hour wraps with a car review of the 2026 Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max Platinum—a three-row SUV blending hybrid efficiency, 362 horsepower, all-wheel drive, and family-focused practicality without requiring a plug-in. Is this the sweet spot for modern families? HOUR 3 Hour 3 of Rush To Reason dives straight into high-stakes global politics and Colorado controversy. John Rush welcomes Jim Pfaff of The Conservative Caucus to break down the escalating conflict with Iran. Is this a calculated, strategic reset of the global stage? Could weakening Iran reshape Russia, China, and even Ukraine? And is President Trump executing a bold, short-term operation—or taking a historic gamble? The War Powers Act, congressional authority, and America's long-term foreign policy all come under the microscope. Later, Michael Smith, State Director for the National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB), joins John to sound the alarm on Colorado's HB 1054. Is this really about worker safety—or a new layer of regulation that could crush small businesses? What happens when state government stacks enforcement on top of federal OSHA? John also tackles Denver Mayor Mike Johnston's order to shield residents from ICE. Can a city legally interfere with federal immigration enforcement—or is this political grandstanding aimed at national headlines? Big questions. High stakes. You won't want to miss it. Guest Timestamps 1:09 – Jim Pfaff – The Conservative Caucus. https://theconservativecaucus.com/ 29:08 – Michael Smith, National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB) https://www.nfib.com/

Join the Conversation at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222. Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Is America on the brink of another endless war—or witnessing a swift strategic reset in the Middle East? In Hour 1, John Rush dives headfirst into the escalating conflict with Iran, pushing back against what he calls political fear-mongering from both sides. Do you really need to “gun up,” or is that just opportunism wrapped in panic? John breaks down the War Powers Act, defends presidential authority, and calls out Colorado lawmakers for repeating what he sees as scripted talking points. Is Congress misunderstanding the Constitution—or deliberately distorting it? And could this conflict be over in weeks, not years? He also shares a powerful story from a recent trip to Cabo—an encounter with a self-deported immigrant that sparks a bigger question: Should America create a fast-track path for productive, merit-based citizenship? Plus, insight from caller John on sleeper cells, the Strait of Hormuz, and whether Governor Jared Polis is quietly positioning himself for a 2028 presidential run. Is Iran collapsing faster than the headlines suggest? And is the political class ready for what comes next? HOUR 2 Is the spike in gas prices real—or just market emotion? John opens Hour 2, breaking down oil at $70 a barrel and explaining why America is far less dependent on Middle East imports than a decade ago. Are we reacting to headlines instead of facts? He then tackles the political fallout from the Iran strikes, arguing critics misunderstand presidential war powers—and suggesting deeper ideological roots behind today's anti-Trump sentiment. Is cultural conditioning shaping the national divide more than we realize? The mood shifts when Richard Rush joins the show to talk NASCAR and leadership. How did Michael Jordan's 23XI Racing make history by winning the first three races of the season? Is greatness transferable—and could Jordan's ownership revive the sport? The hour wraps with a car review of the 2026 Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max Platinum—a three-row SUV blending hybrid efficiency, 362 horsepower, all-wheel drive, and family-focused practicality without requiring a plug-in. Is this the sweet spot for modern families? HOUR 3 Hour 3 of Rush To Reason dives straight into high-stakes global politics and Colorado controversy. John Rush welcomes Jim Pfaff of The Conservative Caucus to break down the escalating conflict with Iran. Is this a calculated, strategic reset of the global stage? Could weakening Iran reshape Russia, China, and even Ukraine? And is President Trump executing a bold, short-term operation—or taking a historic gamble? The War Powers Act, congressional authority, and America's long-term foreign policy all come under the microscope. Later, Michael Smith, State Director for the National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB), joins John to sound the alarm on Colorado's HB 1054. Is this really about worker safety—or a new layer of regulation that could crush small businesses? What happens when state government stacks enforcement on top of federal OSHA? John also tackles Denver Mayor Mike Johnston's order to shield residents from ICE. Can a city legally interfere with federal immigration enforcement—or is this political grandstanding aimed at national headlines? Big questions. High stakes. You won't want to miss it. Guest Timestamps 1:09 – Jim Pfaff – The Conservative Caucus. https://theconservativecaucus.com/ 29:08 – Michael Smith, National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB) https://www.nfib.com/

What happens when grief becomes the doorway to purpose? In this powerful conversation, I speak with Michaela Foster Marsh about transracial adoption, loss, creativity, and faith. Raised in Scotland with her adopted Ugandan brother during the civil rights era, Michaela shares how his tragic death led her to uncover his African roots, build a creative arts school in Uganda, and launch a charity supporting children with autism and disabilities. We explore dyslexia, music, resilience, and the spiritual nudges that shaped her journey. You will hear how grief can transform into service, how creativity can heal deep wounds, and why choosing hope is the most unstoppable decision you can make. Highlights: 00:10 Discover how growing up in a transracial adoption shaped identity and belonging. 13:19 Hear how a tragic house fire changed the course of a life. 16:03 Learn how a late dyslexia diagnosis brought clarity and confidence. 30:12 Follow the journey to Uganda to uncover hidden family roots. 43:03 Understand the mission to support children with autism and disabilities. 1:00:44 Receive one powerful reminder about finding light after deep loss. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: Michaela Foster Marsh is an acclaimed musician, author, and founder of the Starchild Charity. She has released three internationally distributed albums, with music featured in television and film including Dawson's Creek, The Matthew Shepard Story, and Breaking Amish. Michaela has performed at the Monaco International Film Festival, the Cannes International Film Festival, and was the last person invited to sing privately for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. She is the author of the memoir Starchild — the remarkable true story of her journey to Uganda to find the biological family of her adopted brother, 18 years after his death. The book was published in the US and distributed globally. Starchild is currently being adapted into a feature documentary titled The Starchild Covenant, directed by BAFTA Award-winner Alex McCall. Michaela is also the founder and Executive Director of the Starchild Charity, which serves vulnerable children and women in Uganda and Scotland. The charity has built a School for Creative Arts in Vvumba, Uganda in memory of her brother, and a holistic centre for autism and disabilities in Scotland in memory of her late partner. She has received numerous honours for her humanitarian work, including a Prime Minister's Award, a Peace and Unity Award, a Community Champion Award, and was a finalist for Scotswoman of the Year by the Evening Times in 2017. Currently, Michaela is working on several creative projects: ·       The Matoke Tree – A completed literary novel rooted in themes of race, adoption, religious oppression, and belonging, based in part on her own lived experiences. ·       The Starchild Covenant – A feature documentary based on her memoir Starchild, currently in production with BAFTA Award-winner Alex McCall. ·       Sunflowers at Christmas – A deeply personal memoir in progress, written in the wake of her partner's death, exploring grief, love, and spiritual survival. ·       Orion: A Mythological Rock Opera – An immersive stage work in development, blending original music with myth, transformation, and rebirth, inspired by her album I Undid Orion's Belt. Her work — across genres and geographies — explores the legacy of loss, the power of love, and the transformation of silence into story. Ways to connect with Michaela**:** Email:michaela_foster_marsh@hotmail.com Websites: ·       starchildcharity.org ·       michaelaonline.com Social: ·       Instagram: @fostermarsh ·       Facebook: Michaela Foster Marsh – singer-songwriter & author ·       Facebook: Starchild Charity ·       LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michaelafostermarsh About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Courage is not loud. Sometimes it is a 13-year-old girl standing in a courtroom, promising to defend dignity no matter the cost.  Noura Ghazi's life was shaped by detention, disappearance, and resistance long before she became a human rights lawyer. Growing up in Damascus with a father repeatedly imprisoned for political opposition, she chose early to confront injustice through law rather than violence. From defending political prisoners during the Syrian revolution to marrying her husband inside a prison and later founding No Photo Zone, Noura has built a life rooted in resilience, civil rights advocacy, and unwavering belief in human dignity.  Now living in France as a political refugee, she continues her work supporting families of detainees, survivors of torture, and the disappeared. Her story is not simply about survival. It is about choosing mindset over fear, purpose over despair, and love even in the shadow of loss. This conversation invites reflection on what it means to remain Unstoppable when freedom, justice, and even safety are uncertain.  Highlights:  00:07:06 – A defining childhood moment reveals how a confrontation in a Syrian courtroom shaped Noura's lifelong commitment to defending political prisoners.  00:12:51 – The unpredictable nature of Syria's exceptional courts exposes how justice without standards creates generational instability and fear.  00:17:32 – The emotional aftermath of her father's release illustrates how imprisonment reshapes entire families, not just the person detained.  00:23:47 – Noura's pursuit of human rights education demonstrates how intentional learning becomes an act of resistance in restrictive systems.  00:32:10 – The early days of the Syrian revolution clarify how violence escalates when peaceful protest is met with force.  00:37:27 – Her marriage inside a prison and the global advocacy campaign that followed reflect how personal love can fuel public courage.  00:50:59 – A candid reflection on PTSD reveals how trauma can coexist with purpose and even deepen empathy for others.  About the Guest:   Noura Ghazi's life has been shaped by a single, unwavering mission: to defend dignity, freedom, and justice in the face of dictatorship. Born in Damascus into a family deeply rooted in political resistance, she witnessed firsthand the cost of speaking out when her father was detained, tortured, and disappeared multiple times. That lived experience became her calling. Since 2004, she has defended political prisoners before Syria's Supreme Security State Court, and when the Syrian revolution began in 2011, she fully committed herself to supporting detainees and the families of the disappeared. Even after her husband, activist Bassel Khartabil Safadi, was detained, disappeared, and ultimately executed, she continued her advocacy with extraordinary resolve.  Forced into exile in 2018 after repeated threats and arrest warrants, Noura founded NoPhotoZone to provide legal aid, psychological support, and international advocacy for victims of detention, torture, enforced disappearance, and displacement across Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey. Her mission is not only to seek justice for the imprisoned and the missing, but to restore agency and hope to families living in uncertainty and trauma. Recognized globally for her courage and leadership, Noura remains committed to amplifying the voices of the silenced and ensuring that even in the darkest systems, human rights and human dignity are never forgotten.  https://nouraghazi.org/   https://nophotozone.org/   Book – Waiting by Noura Ghazi - https://www.lulu.com/shop/noura-ghazi-safadi/waiting/paperback/product-1jz2kz2j.html?page=1&pageSize=4   About the Host:  Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.  Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.  https://michaelhingson.com   https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/   https://twitter.com/mhingson   https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson   https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/  Thanks for listening!  Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.  Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!  Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app.  Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you are enjoying the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Michael Hingson  00:09 Well, welcome everyone to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to chat with Nora Ghazi, who lives in, I believe, France right now. She was born in Syria. She'll tell us about that, and she has had an interesting life, and I would say, a life that has had lots of challenges and some treachery along the way. But we'll get to all of that, and I will leave it to her to describe most of that, but I just want to tell you all we really appreciate you being here and hope you enjoy the episode. So Nora, how are you? Noura Ghazi  00:49 Thank you, Michael, for having me in this great broadcast, doing well. Michael Hingson  00:57 Well, there you go. Well, why don't we start? I love to start this way. Why don't you tell us kind of about the early Nora, growing up and so on, where you grew up, what anything you want to talk about, regarding being a younger person and all of that and and however we want to proceed, we'll go from there. Noura Ghazi  01:17 Okay, so since I was a child, my childhood wasn't like normal, like all the kids at my age, because my father was like a leader in opposition party against the previous Syrian regime. Michael Hingson  01:34 So you were born in Syria? Noura Ghazi  01:37 Yes, I work in Damascus. I'm from Damascus, but I have some like multiple origin that I'm proud of. But yes, I'm from Damascus. So since I was five years old, my father was disappeared and because he was wanted with other, like fellows at his party and other, let's say aliens, parties of opposition against the previous regime. So he disappeared for six years, then he was detained and transferred to what was named the supreme security state court. So it was during my adultness, let's say so since I was a child like I had at that time, only one sister, which is one year younger than me, we were moving a lot. We had no place to live. So my mother used to take us each few days to stay at some, someone place, let's say so it caused to us like changing schools all, all the time, which means changing friends. So it was very weird. And at that age, okay, I I knew the words of like cause, the words of leader or dictatorship. I used to say these words, but without knowing what does it mean. Then, when my father detained, it was his ninth detention. Actually, my mother was pregnant with my brother, so my brother was born while my father was in prison. And while he was in prison, the last time he disappeared for one year, three months, he was in like a kind of isolation in security facility. Then he was referred to this court. So in one of the sessions of the trials, I had a fight with the officer who, like who was leading the patrol that bring my father and other prisoners of conscience. So at the end of this fight, I promised my father and the officer that, okay, I will grow up and become a human rights lawyer and defend political prisoners, which I did at the end. Michael Hingson  04:05 So what? What was the officer doing? He was taking people to the court. Noura Ghazi  04:12 Yes, because Okay, so there is many kind of prisons now. They became like, more familiar to like public opinion because of, like 15 years of violence in Syria. So there was, like the the central civil prison in Damascus, which we call ADRA prison, and we have said, NIA jail, military prison. So those two prisons, they were like, holding detainees in them. So they they used to bring detainees to the court in busses, like a kind of military busses, with patrol of like civil police and military police. So the officer was like. Heading the patrol that was bringing my fathers from other prison. Michael Hingson  05:05 So you, so you, what was the fight about with the officer and your father and so on? What? How? Well, yeah, what was the fight? Noura Ghazi  05:16 It's very good question, although at that time, it was a very like scary situation, but now I laughed a lot about it. Okay, so they used to to catch all the prisoners in one chain with the handcuffs. So we used to come to hug and kiss my father before entering the court. So I was doing what I used to do during the trials, or just upon the trials, and then one of the policemen, like pushed me away. So I got nervous, and my father got nervous. So the officer provoked me. He was like a kind of insulting that my father is a detainee, and he is like he's coming to this court. So I, like I replied that I'm proud of my father and his friends what they are doing. So he somehow, he threats me to detain me like my father, and at that time, I was very angry, and I curse the father Assad just in on the like in the door, at the door of the court, and there was people and and Like all the the policemen, like they were just pointing their weapon to me, and there was some moments of silence. Then they took all the detainees into the court. So at this moment, while I'm entering the court behind them, I said, I will grow up and become a human rights lawyer to defend political prisoners. Michael Hingson  07:02 What did the officers say to that? Noura Ghazi  07:06 Because they used to look to us as because we are. We were against father Assad and the dictatorship, so they used to see us, even if we are kids, as enemies. Michael Hingson  07:22 Yeah, so the officer but, but he didn't detain you. I was Noura Ghazi  07:27 only 13 years, yeah, okay, they used to to arrest the kids, but they didn't. Michael Hingson  07:37 So did the officer react to your comment? You're going to grow up to become a civil rights lawyer? Noura Ghazi  07:43 He was shocked, was he? But I don't know if he knew that I become a human yes, there at the end, yeah. Michael Hingson  07:54 And meanwhile, what did your father do or say? Noura Ghazi  07:58 He was shocked also, but he was very proud, and until now, he like every time, because I'm also like, very close to to his friends who I used to visit in prison. Then I become a human rights lawyer, and I was the youngest lawyer in Syria. I was only 22 years old when I started to practice law. So during the the revolution in Syria, which started in 2011 some of his friends were detained, and I was their lawyer also. So I'm very close to them. So until now, they remember this story and laugh about it, because no one could curse or say anything not good about father Assad or or the family, even in secret. So it's still, like, very funny, and I'm still like, stuck somehow in, like, in this career and the kind of activism I'm doing, because just I got angry of the officer 30 years ago. So at this, at that moment, I've decided what I will be in the future. I'm just doing it well. Michael Hingson  09:20 From everything I've read, it sounds like you do a good job. Noura Ghazi  09:25 I cannot say it's a job, because usually you you do a job, you get paid for your job, you go at a certain time and come back at a certain time. You do certain tasks. But for me, it's like a continuing fight, non violent fight, of course, for dignity, for freedom, for justice, right, for reveal the truth of those who were disappeared and got missing. So yes, until now, I'm doing this, so I don't have that. Are the luxury to to be paid all the time, or to be to have weekends or to work until like certain hour at night. I cannot say I'm enjoying it, but this is the reason why I'm still alive, because I have a motive to help and support other people who are victims to dictatorship and violence. Michael Hingson  10:25 So your father went into court and what happened? Noura Ghazi  10:31 He was sentenced. At the end, he was sentenced to three years in prison. And it's a funny story, another funny story, actually, because, like the other latines at that at that trial, like it was only my father and other two prisoners who sent who were sentenced to three years in prison, while other people, the minimum was seven years in Prison, until 15 years in prison. So my mother and us, we felt like we are embarrassed and shy because, okay, our father will will be released like in few months, but other prisoners will stay much longer. So it's something very embarrassing to our friends who whom their fathers got sentenced to like more. Michael Hingson  11:30 Did you ever find out why it was only three years? Noura Ghazi  11:33 We don't know because it's an exceptional court, so it's up to the judge and the judge at that time, like it's it's very similar to what is happening now and what happened after 2011 so it's a kind of continuing reality in in Syria since like 63 which was the first time my father was detained. It was in 63 just after the what they called the eighth March revolution. So my father was only 11 years old when he was detained the first time because he participated in a protest. So it's up to the judge. It's not like a real court with like the the fair trial standards. So it's it's only once you know, the judge said the sentences for each one. So two prisoners got confused. They couldn't differentiate like Which sentence to whom, so they asked like again, so he forgot, so he said them again in different way. So it's something like, very spontaneously, yeah, very just moody, not any standard. Michael Hingson  12:51 Well, so Did your father then serve the three years and was released. Or what happened? Noura Ghazi  12:58 He was released on the day that he should be released, he disappeared for few days. We didn't know what happened. Then he was released. Finally he came. We used to live with my my grandma, so I was the one who opened the door, and I saw just my father. So we we knew later that okay, he was moved again to a security facility because he refused to sign a paper that say that he will not practice any oppositional action against the authority. So he refused, yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  13:43 Well, I mean, I'm sure there's, there's a continuing story, what happened to him after that. So he came home, Noura Ghazi  13:53 he came out to my grandma. It was a big surprise, like full of joy, but full of tears as well. Michael Hingson  14:01 And you're you were 16 now, right? Noura Ghazi  14:04 I was when he was raised. I was 15, yeah, okay, yeah. And my sister was 14. My brother was two years and a half, so for him, okay, the father is this person that we visit behind bars every Monday, not this one who stay with us. So for him, it was weird. For my brother, he was very like little kid to understand. Then my father went to to see his parents as well. Then we came back to our apartment that we couldn't live more than few months because my father was detained. So at this night, everything was very, very, very new, like because before the three years he he was disappeared for six years, so there was. Nine years. We don't live with my father, so my brother used to sleep just next to my mom, actually my sister and me, but okay, we were like a teenager, so it's okay. So my brother couldn't sleep. Because why he keep, he kept asking why my father is sleeping with us while he's not with his friend at that place. And he was traumatized for many days. But usually when, like a political prisoner released, usually, like, we have a kind of two, three weeks of people visiting the family to say, Okay, it's it's good. We're happy for you that he was released. So the first two, three weeks were full of people and like, social events, etc. Then the, the real problem started. So my father studied law, but he was fired from university for security reasons at the the last year of his study, and as he was sentenced so he couldn't work, my mother used to work, and so like suddenly he started to feel that okay, He's not able to work. He's not able to fulfill the needs of his family. He's not able to spend on the family. The problems between him and my mother started. We couldn't as like my sister and me as teenagers. We couldn't really accept him. We couldn't see that. He's the same person that we used to visit in prison. He was very friendly. We used to talk about everything in life, including the very personal things that usually daughters don't speak with fathers about it. But then he became a father, which we we we weren't used to it, and he was shocked also. So I can say that this, this situation, at least on emotional and psychological level, for me, it lasted for 15 years. I couldn't accept him very well, even my my sister and and the brother and it happens to all like prisoners, political prisoners, especially who spent long time in prison. Michael Hingson  17:32 So now is your father and well, are your father and your mother still alive? Or are they around? Noura Ghazi  17:41 They are still alive. They are still in Damascus, Michael Hingson  17:44 and they're still in Damascus. Yes, how is I guess I'll just ask it now, how is Syria different today than it was in the Assad regime, Noura Ghazi  17:56 like most of Syrians, and now we should differentiate about what Syrians will talk. We're talking so like those Syrians, like the majority of Syrians, and I'm meaning here, I'm sorry, I shouldn't be very direct. Now, the Arab Sunni Syrians, most of them, they are very happy. They are calling what happened in in last eight December, that it's the deliberation of Syria, but for other minorities, like religious or ethnic minorities, of course, it's almost the same. For me, I feel that okay, we have the same dictatorship now, the same corruption, the same of like lack of freedom of expression. But the the added that we have now is that we have Islamist who control Syria. We have extremists who control Syria. They intervene even in personal freedoms. They they are like, like, they are committing crimes against minorities, like it started last March, against alawed. It started last July, against Druze. Now it is starting against Kurdish, and unfortunately, the international community turning like an attorney, like, okay. They are okay with with it, because they want, like their own interest, their own benefits. They have another crisis in the world to take care and to think about, not Syria. So the most important for the international community is to have a stable situation in Syria, to be like, like, no kind of like, no fight zone in the Middle East, and they don't care about Syrian people. And this is very frustrating for those who. Who have the same beliefs that I have. Michael Hingson  20:04 So in a lot of ways, you're saying it hasn't, hasn't really changed, and only the, only the faces and names have changed, but not the actions or the results Noura Ghazi  20:16 the faces and names, and most important, the sects, has changed. So it was very obvious for me that most of Syrians, they don't mind to be controlled by dictator. They only mind what is the sect of this dictator? Michael Hingson  20:35 Unfortunately. Well, yeah. Well, let's go back to you. So your father was released, and you had already made your decision about what you wanted to be, what how does school work over there? Did you go to a, what we would call a high school? Or how does all that work? Noura Ghazi  20:58 Yeah, high school, I was among the like the student who got the highest score in Damascus. I was the fourth one on Damascus when I finished. We call it back like Baccalaureate in Syria, which came from French. And I studied law, and I was also very, like, really hard, hard study person. So I was graduated in four years. Actually, nobody in Syria used to finish studying law in Damascus University only in four years. Like some people stayed more than 10 years because it it was very difficult, and it's different than like law college or law school or university of law, depending on the country, than other countries, because we only like study law. Theoretically, we don't have any practice because we were 1000s of students, it was the like the maximum university that include students. And I registered immediately in the Bar Association in Damascus, and I started because we have, like, a kind, it's, it's similar to stage for two years, like under the supervision of another lawyer who was my uncle at the first and then we we have to choose a topic in certain domain of flow, to write a kind of book which is like, it's similar to thesis, to apply it, to approve it, and then to have the kind of interactive examination, then we have the the final graduated. So all of them to be like a practice lawyer. It's around six years, a little bit more. So my specialist was in criminal law, and my thesis, what about what we call the the impossible crime. It was complicated topic. I have to say that in Syria at that time, I'm talking about end of of 90s, beginning of 2000 so we don't have any kind of study related to human rights. We weren't allowed even to spell this word like human rights. So then in 2005 and 2006 I started to study human rights under international laws related to human rights in Jordan. So I became like a kind of certified human rights defenders and the trainer also, Michael Hingson  23:47 okay, and so you said you started practice and you finished school when you started practice, when you were 22 Yes, okay, I'm curious what, what were things like after September 11, of course, you know, we had the terrorist attacks and so on. Did any of that affect anything over in Syria, where you lived, Noura Ghazi  24:15 of course, like, we stayed talking, watching the news for like four months, like until now we remember, like September 11. But you know, I now when I remember, it was a shock, usually for the Arab world, or Arab people like America is against the Arab world. So everything happened against it was like, this was like, let's say 2030, years ago. Everything that caused any harm to America, they celebrate it. So that. At that time, I was 19 years old, and okay, it's the first time we we hear that a person who was terrorist do like is doing this kind in in us, which is like a miracle for us. But then I started to to think, okay, they it's not an army. They are. There are civilians. Those civilians could be against the the policies of the US government. They could be like, This is not a kind of fight for freedom or for rights or for any like, really, like, fair cause. This is a terrorist action against civilians. And then we started, I'm very lucky because I'm from very educated family. So we started to think about, like, okay, bin Laden. And like, which we have a president from Qaeda now in Syria, like, you can imagine how I feel now. Like, I Okay, all the world is against al Qaeda, and they celebrated that the President in Syria is from al Qaeda. So it's, it's very it's, it's, really, it's not logical at all. But the funniest thing that happened, because, like, the name of Usama bin Laden, was keeping on every like, every one tongue. So I have my my oldest uncle. His name is Usama, and he lives in Germany for 40, more than 40 years, actually. So my brother was a child, and he started to cry, and he came to my mother and asked her, I'm afraid, is my uncle the same Usama? So we were laughing all, and we said, No, it's another Usama. This is the Usama. This is Osama bin Laden, who is like from is like a terrorist group, etc. But like this unfortunate incident started to bring to my mind some like the concept of non violence, the concept of that, okay, no civilian in any place in the world should be harmed for any reason, Because we never been told this in Syria and mostly in most of of countries like the word fight is very linked to armed fights, which I totally disagree with. Michael Hingson  27:56 Well, the when people ask me about September 11 and and so on. One of the things that I say is this wasn't a religious war. This wasn't a religious attack. This was terrorist. This was, I put it in terms of of Americans. These were thugs who decided they wanted to have their way with people. But this is not the way the Muslim the Islamic religion is there is peaceful and peace loving as as anyone, and we really need to understand that. And I realize that there are a lot of people in this country who don't really understand all about that, and they don't understand that. In reality, there's a lot of peace loving people in the Middle East, but hopefully we'll be able to educate people over time, and that's one of the reasons I tell the story that I do, because I do believe that what happened is 19 people attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and so on, and they don't represent the the typical viewpoint of most people, religious wise in the Middle East. And I can understand why a lot of people think that the United States doesn't like Arabs, and I'm not sure that that's totally true, but I can appreciate what you're saying. Noura Ghazi  29:28 Yeah, I'm talking about specific communities actually, who they are, like totally against Israel, and they believe that you us is supporting Israel. So that's that's why they have their like this like attitude towards us and or like that US is trying to invest all the resources in the in the Middle East, etc. But what you were mentioning. Is really very important, because those 19 persons, they like kind of they, they cause the very bad reputation for for Muslims, for Middle Eastern because for for for other people from other countries, other culture or other religion, they will not understand that, okay, that, as you said, they don't represent Muslims. And in all religions, we have the extremist and we have those peaceful persons who keep their their religion as a kind of direct connection with God. They respect everyone, and normally in in in Syria, most of of the population like this, but now having a terrorist as a President, I'm not able to believe how there is a lot of Syrians that support him. Mm, hmm. Because when Al Qaeda started in Syria at the beginning, under the name of japet Al Nusra, then, which with July, who is now Ahmad Al shara, was the leader, and he's the leader of the country now most of Syrians, especially the the the Sunni Syrians, were against this, like terrorist groups, because the most harm they cause is for for Sunnis in Syria, because all other minorities, they will think about every Sunni that they, He or she, like, believe and behave like those, which is totally not true. Michael Hingson  31:47 Yeah, I hear you. Well, so September 11 happened, and then eventually you started doing criminal law. And if we go forward to what 2011 with the Syrian revolution? Yeah, and so what was, what was that revolution about? Noura Ghazi  32:10 It was okay. It started as a reaction against detaining kids from school. Okay, of course, this like the Syrian people, including me, we were very affected and inspired about what was happening in Egypt and Tunisia. But okay, so the security arrested and tortured those kids in their south of Syria. So people came out in demonstration to ask for their freedom and the security attack those protesters with, like, with weapons, so couple of persons died. So then it was, it started to be like a kind of revolution, let's say, yeah, the the problem for me, for lot of people like me, that the the previous Syrian regime was very violent against protesters and the previous president, Bashar Assad, he refused to listen to to to those people, he started to, like dissipated from the reality. So this like, much violence that was against us, like, I remember during some protest, there was not like, small weapon toward us. There was a tank that bombing us as protesters, peaceful, non violent, non armed protesters. So this violence led to another violence, like a kind of reaction by those who defected from the army, etc. And here, my father used to say, when the opposition started to to carry weapon in a country that, like the majority of it, is from certain religion, this could lead to a kind of Jihadist methodology. And this is what happened. So for for people like us, which we are very little comparing of like, the other beliefs of other people like we were, we started to be against the Syrian regime, then against the jihadist groups, then against that, like a kind of international, certain International, or, let's say original intervention, like Iran and Russia. So we were fighting everywhere, and no one. No one wanted us because those like educated, secular, non violent people, they. Form a kind of danger for every one of those parties. But what happened with me is that I met my late husband during a revolution at the very early of 2011 and having the relationship with me was my own revolution. So I was living on parallel like two revolution, a personal one and the public one. And then, like he was detained just two weeks before our our wedding. He was disappeared, actually, for nine months, then he was moved to the same prison that my father was in, to the central prison in Damascus that we got married in prison by coincidence. I don't know if coincidence is the right word in this situation, but my late husband was a very well known programmer and activist. So we were he was kind of, let's say, famous, and I was a lawyer and lawyer that defend human rights defenders and political prisoners. And the husband was detained, so I used to visit him in prison and visit other prisoners that I was their lawyers. And because my like, we have this personal aspect that okay, the couple that got married in prison and that, okay, I'm activist as a lawyer, and my late husband was a well known programmer. So we created a very huge campaign, a global campaign. So we invested this campaign to like, to shed the light about detention, torture, disappearance, exceptional courts, then, like also summary execution in Syria. So then, after almost three years of visiting him regularly, he disappeared again in 2015 and in 2017 I knew that he was sentenced to death, and I knew the exact date of his execution, just in 2018 which was two days ago. It was October 5. So this is what happened then. I had to leave Syria in 2018 so I left to Lebanon. Michael Hingson  37:27 So you left Syria and went to Lebanon? Noura Ghazi  37:33 Yes, the The plan was to stay only six months in Lebanon because I was wanted and I was threatened like I lived a terrible life, really, like lot of Syrians who were activists also, but the plan was that I will stay in Lebanon for six months, then I will leave to to UK because I had A scholarship to get a master in international law. But only two months after I left to Lebanon, I decided to stay in Lebanon to establish the organization that I'm I'm leading until now, which was a project between my late husband and me. Its name is no photo zone, so it was a very big decision, but I'm not regrets. Michael Hingson  38:23 You, you practice criminal law, you practiced human rights, you visited your your fiance, as it were, and then, well, then your husband in prison and so on. Wasn't all of that pretty risky for you? Noura Ghazi  38:42 Yes, very risky. I, I lived in under like, different kind of risk. Like, okay, I have the risk that, okay, I'm, I'm doing my activism against the previous regime publicly because I also, I was co founder of the First Family or victim Association in Syria families for freedom. So we, we were, like, doing a kind of advocacy in Europe, and I used to come back to Syria, so I was under this risk, but also I was under the risk of the like, going to prison, because the way to prison and the prison itself were under bombing. It was in like a point that separate the opposition militias and the regime militias. So they were bombing each other and bombing the prison and bombing the way to prison. So for three years, and specifically for like, in, let's say, 2014 specifically, I was among, like, I was almost the only lawyer that visited the prison, and I, I didn't mind this. I faced death more than 100 time, only on the way to prison, two times the person next to me in the like transportation. It's a kind of small bus. He died and fell down on me, but I had a strong belief that I will not die, Michael Hingson  40:21 and then what? Why do you think that they never detained you or or put you in prison? Do you have any thoughts? Noura Ghazi  40:29 I had many arrests weren't against me, but each time there was something that solve it somehow. So the first couple of Earths weren't actually when, when my late husband was detained, he he made a kind of deal with them that, okay, he will give all the information, everything about his activism in return. They, they canceled the arrest warrant against me. Then literally, until now, I don't know how it was solved. Like I, I had to sleep in garden with my cats for many nights. I i spent couple of months that I cannot go to any like to family, be house or to friend house, because I will cause problem for them, my my parents, my brother and sister, and even, like my sister, ex, until like just three months before the fall of the Syrian regime, they were under like, investigation By the security, lot of harassment against them so, but I don't know, like, I'm, I'm survive for a reason that I don't really realize how, Michael Hingson  41:52 wow, it, it's, it certainly is pretty amazing. Did you ever write a book or anything about all of this, Noura Ghazi  42:02 I used to write, always the only book like, let's say, literature or emotional book. It was about love in prison. Its name is waiting. And I wrote this book in English and basil. My late husband translated it. Sorry. I wrote it in Arabic, and Basset translated it into English in prison. So it was a process of smuggling the poems in Arabic and smuggling the them in English, again out of the prison. And we published the book online just after basil disappearance in 2015 then we created the the hard copies, and I did the signature in in Beirut in, like, early 2018 but like, it's, it's online, and it's a very, like light book, let's say very romantic. It's about love in prison. I'm really keen to write again, like maybe a kind of self narrative or about the stories that I lived and i i I heard during my my journey. Unfortunately, like to write needs like this a little stable situation, but I did write many like legal or human rights book or like guides or studies, etc. Michael Hingson  43:34 Now is waiting still available online? Noura Ghazi  43:37 Yes, it's still available online. Michael Hingson  43:40 Okay? It would be great if you could, if you have a picture of the book cover, if you could send that to me, because I'd like to put that in the notes. I would appreciate it if you would, okay, for sure. But anyway, so the the company you founded, what is it called Noura Ghazi  44:02 it's a non government, a non profit organization. Its name is no photo zone. Michael Hingson  44:07 And how did you come up with that name? Noura Ghazi  44:12 It was Vasil who come up with this name, because our main focus is on prisoners of conscious and disappeared. So for him, it was that okay, those places that they put disappeared in them. They are they. There is no cameras to show the others what is happening. So we should be the the like in the place of cameras to tell the world what is happening. So that's why no photos on me, like, means that prisons or like unofficial detention centers, because they're it's an all photo zone, right? Michael Hingson  44:54 And no photo zone is is still operating today. Noura Ghazi  44:58 It's still operating. We are extending our work, although, like we have lots of financial challenges because of, like, funds issues, but for us, the main issue, we provide legal services to victims of torture, detention, disappearance and their families. So we operate in Syria, Lebanon and Turkey. We are a French woman led organization, but we have registration in Turkey and Syria, and like in seven years now, almost seven years, we could provide our services to more than 3000 families who most of them are women, and they are responsible about kids who they don't have fathers. So we defend political prisoners. We search the disappeared. We provide the legal services related to personal and civil status. We provided the services related to identification documents, because it's a very big issue in Syria. Beside we provide rehabilitation, like full rehabilitation programs for survivors of detention or torture, and also advocacy. Of course, it's a very important part of our our work, even with the lack of fund, we've decided in the team, because most of the team, or all the team, they they were themselves victims of detention, or family members of victims, even the non Syrian because we have many non Syrian member in the team. So for us, it's a cause. It's not like a work that we're doing and getting paid. So we're, we're suffering this this year with the fund issues, because there is a lot of change related to the world and Syrian issues, which affected the fund policies. So hopefully we'll be, we'll be fine next year, hopefully, and we're trying to survive with our beneficiaries this year, Michael Hingson  47:02 yeah, well, you, you started receiving, and I assume no photo zone started receiving awards, and eventually you moved out of Lebanon. Tell me more about all of that. Noura Ghazi  47:16 During my journey, I I got many international recognition or a word, including two by Amnesty International. But after almost two years, like just after covid, like the start of covid, I was thinking that I should have another residence permit in another country because, like, it became very difficult for Syrians to get a residence in Lebanon. So I I moved to Turkey, and I was between Lebanon and Turkey. Then I got a call from the French Embassy in Turkey telling me that there is a new kind of a word, which is Marianne award, or Marianne program, that initiated by the French president. And they it's for human rights defenders across the world, and they will give this award for 15 human rights defender from 15 country. And I was listening, I thought they want me to nominate someone. Then they told me that the French government are honored to choose you as a Syrian human rights defender. So it was a program for six months, so I moved to Paris with my cat and dog. Then they extended the program and to become nine months. And at the almost at the end of the program, the both of Lebanese and Turkish authorities refused to renew my residence permit, so I had to stay in France to apply for asylum and a political refugee currently. Michael Hingson  49:10 And so you're in France. Are you still in Paris? Noura Ghazi  49:13 I'm still yes in Paris. I learned French very fast, like in four months. Okay, I'm not perfect, but I learned French. Michael Hingson  49:25 So what did your dog and cat think about all that? Sorry, what did your dog and cat think about moving to France? Noura Ghazi  49:33 They are French, actually, originally, they are friends. Michael Hingson  49:36 Oh, there you go. Noura Ghazi  49:38 My, my poor dog had like he he was English educated, so we used to communicate in English. Then when I was still in Lebanon, I thought, okay, a lot of Syrians are coming to my place, and they don't speak English, so I have to teach him Arabic. Then we moved to Turkish. So I had to teach him Turkish. Then we came to. France. So now my dog understand more than four languages, Michael Hingson  50:06 good for him, and and, of course, your cat is really the boss of the whole thing, right? Noura Ghazi  50:12 Of course, she is like, the center of the universe, Michael Hingson  50:16 yeah, yeah, just ask her. She'll tell you. And she's Noura Ghazi  50:20 very white, so she is 14 years. Oh, it's old, yes. Michael Hingson  50:29 Well, I have a cat we rescued in 2015 we think she was five then. So we think that my cat is 15 going on 16. So, and she moves around and does very well. Noura Ghazi  50:46 Yeah, my cat as well. Michael Hingson  50:49 Yeah. Well, that's the way it should be. So with all the things that you've been dealing with and all the stress, have you had? Noura Ghazi  50:59 PTSD, yes, I started, of course, like it's the minimum, actually, I have PTSD and the TSD, and I started to feel, or let's say, I could know that the what is happening with me is PTSD two years ago. I before, like, couple of months before, I started to feel like something unusual in my body, in my mind. At the beginning, we thought there is a problem in the brain. Then the psychologist and psychiatrist said that it's a huge level of PTSD, which is like the minimum, and like, we should start the journey of of treatment, which is like the behavior treatment and medical treatment as well. Like, some people could stay 10 years. Some people need to go to hospital. It's not the best thing, but sometimes I feel I'm grateful that I'm having PTSD because I'm able to deal with people who are in the same situation. I could feel them, understand them, so I could help them more, because I understand and as a human rights defender and like victim of lot of kind of violations, so I'm very aware about the like, let's call it the first aid, the psychological first aid support. And this is helpful somehow. Okay, I'm suffering, but this suffering is useful for others Michael Hingson  52:47 well and clearly, you are at a point where you can talk about it, which says a lot, because you're able to deal with it well enough to be able to talk about it, which I think is probably pretty important, don't you think? Noura Ghazi  53:03 Yeah, actually, the last at the first time I talked about it very publicly in a conference in Stockholm, it was last October, and then I thought it's important to talk about it. And I'm also thinking to do something more about PTSD, especially the PTSD related to to prisons, torture, etc, this kind of violations, because sharing experience is very important. So I'm still thinking about a kind of certain way to to like, to spread my experience with PTSD, especially that I have lot of changes in in my life recently, because I got married again, and even the the good incident that people who have PTSD, even if they have, like good incident, but it cause a kind of escalation with PTSD, Michael Hingson  54:00 yeah, but you got married again, so you have somebody you can talk with. Noura Ghazi  54:06 Yes, I got married five months ago. The most important that I could fall in love again. So I met my husband in in Paris. He's a Lebanese artist who live in Paris. And yeah, I have, I have a family now, like we have now three cats and a dog and us as couple. But it's very new for me, like this kind of marriage, that a marriage which I live with a partner, because the marriage I used to is that visit the husband in prison. I'm getting used to it. Michael Hingson  54:43 And just as always, the cat runs everything, right? Yes, of course, of course. So tell me about the freedom prize in Normandy. Noura Ghazi  54:55 Oh, it was like one of the best thing I had in my life. I. Was nominated for the freedom prize, which is launched by usually they are like young people who who nominate the the nominees for this prize, but it's launched by the government of Normandy region in France and the International Institute for Human Rights and peace. So among hundreds of files and, like many kind of round of, like short listing, there was me, a Belarusian activist who is detained, and a Palestinian photographer. So like, just knowing that I was nominated among more than 700 person was a privilege for me. The winner was the Palestinian photographer, but it was the first time they invite the other nominee to the celebration, which was on the same date of like liberating Normandy region during the Second World War. So I chose, I thought for my for couple of days about what I will wear, because I need to deliver a message. So I, I I came up with an idea about a white dress with 101 names in blue. Those names are for disappeared and detainees in Syria. So like there was, there was seven persons who worked on this dress, and I had the chance to wear it and to deliver my message and to give a speech in a very important day that even like those fighters during the Second World War who are still alive, they they came from us. They came from lot of countries. I had the privilege to see them directly, to touch them, to tell them thank you, and to deliver my message in front of an audience of 4500 persons. And it's like I love this dress, and like this event was one of the best thing I had in my life. Michael Hingson  57:21 Do you have a picture of you in the dress? Yes, I would think you do. Well, if you want, we'd love to put that in the show notes as well, especially because you're honoring all those people with the names and so on. Kind of cool. Well, okay, so, so Syria, you're, you're saying, in a lot of ways, hasn't, hasn't really changed a whole lot. It's, it's still a lot of dictatorship oriented kinds of things, and they discriminate against certain sex and and so on. And that's extremely unfortunate, because I don't think that that's the impression that people have over here, Noura Ghazi  58:02 exactly I had a chance to visit Syria, a kind of exceptional visit by the French government, because, as political refugees were not allowed to visit our country of origin. And of course, like after eight years, like out of Syria after six years without seeing my family. Of course, I was very happy, but I was very traumatized, and I I came back to Paris in in July 21 and since that time, I feel I'm not the same person before going to Syria. I'm full of frustration. I feel that, okay, I just wasted 14 years of my life for nothing. But hopefully I'm I'm trying to get better because okay, I know, like much of human rights violations mean that my kind of work and activism is more needed, yeah, Michael Hingson  59:03 so you'll so you'll continue to speak out and and fight for freedom. Noura Ghazi  59:10 Yes, I continue, and I will continue fighting for freedom, for dignity, for justice, for civil rights, and also raising awareness about PTSD and how we could invest even our pain for the sake of helping others. Michael Hingson  59:29 Well, I want to tell you that it's been an honor to have you on the podcast, and I am so glad we we got a chance to talk and to do this because having met you previously, in our introductory conversation, it was very clear that there was a story that needed to be told, and I hope that a lot of people will take an interest, and that it will will allow what you do to continue to grow, if people would like to reach out to you. And and help or learn more. How do they do that? Noura Ghazi  1:00:05 We you have the the link of my website that people could connect me, because it includes my my email, my personal email, and I always reply. So I'm happy to to talk with the to contact with people, and it also include all the all my social media, Michael Hingson  1:00:23 right? What? What's the website for? No photo zone. Noura Ghazi  1:00:27 It's no photo zone.org. No photo zone.org. Michael Hingson  1:00:30 I thought it was, but I just wanted you to say it. I wanted you to say it. Noura Ghazi  1:00:35 It's included in my website. Michael Hingson  1:00:37 Yeah, I've got it all and and it will all be in the show notes, but I just thought I would get you to say no photo zone.org Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a wonderful time to have a chance to talk, and I appreciate you taking the time to, I hope, educate lots of people. So thank you very much for doing that, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching. We'd love you to give us a five star rating. Give us a review. We really appreciate ratings and reviews. So wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast, please give us a five star rating. Please review the podcast for us. We value that, and I know that Nora will will appreciate that as well. Also, if you if you know any guests, and Nora you as well, if you know anyone who you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, we would really appreciate it. If you would let us know you can reach me. At Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts about the podcast. So Nora, very much my I want to thank you again. This has been great. Thank you very much for being here. Noura Ghazi  1:01:56 Thank you Michael, and thank you for those who are listening, and we're still in touch.

Thomas English talks with a guest from the National Federation of the Blind about the ABLE Act and financial accounts that can be used. The guest is Vernon County resident and member of the National Federation of the Blind Dan Keller. He explains what the ABLE Act is and how the ABLE accounts were created. He details different expenses the account funds can be used for. He also highlights the importance of the accounts and how they benefit the disabled community. 

For over a decade, blind and visually impaired people throughout New York City have had the opportunity to play the game of tennis. Launched in 2015 and presented by Court 16, Sound of Tennis offers once-per-week sessions, enabling blind and visually impaired people to learn, practice, and play full games of tennis through sound.  Now, in 2026, Sound of Tennis partnered with a Court 16 location in Philadelphia, offering the same opportunity for Philadelphia residents as well! Join Simon Bonenfant, on this inaugural episode of his new series entitled Simon's Studio, as he takes you through all the details.  You'll hear from Maureen Holtz, Community Relations and Events Manager at Court 16, as well as Hildy Morales, an administrative assistant and avid tennis player. Maureen and Hildy share how both Court 16 and Sound of Tennis were founded and have evolved, their unique journeys of involvement in the program, the strong bond of camaraderie amongst players, and how you can become involved here in Philly!  To learn more about Sound of Tennis at https://www.court16foundation.org/sound-of-tennis. Sessions will take place weekly on Monday's from 12 to 1 PM, at Court 16, 1400 n. Howard Street, Philadelphia, PA, 19122. To learn more about participating, please direct all inquiries to Leila Mueller by sending an email to leilacolan@gmail.com Have you attended any Sound of Tennis events? We want to hear from you! Give us a call at 267.338.4495, or send us an email at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com  Read notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/150.           Apply for a $10,000 National Scholarship The National Federation of the Blind is accepting applications for the 2026 NFB Scholarship Program. We offer an array of scholarships to blind students to support their educational and professional goals. In addition to the $10,000 cash award, each recipient receives funding to attend our national convention, opportunities to network with other blind students, and avenues to connect with hundreds of blind professionals. Learn more and apply at https://nfb.org/programs-services/scholarships-and-awards/scholarship-program. Application deadline is March 31, 2026. NFB National Convention July 3-8 in Austin This year's National Convention is in Austin, Texas, from July 3-8. Learn more about the 2026 NFB National Convention at https://nfb.org/convention. Call 800-627-7468 to book your room. The main hotel is the JW Marriott. The spillover hotel is the Austin Marriott Downtown. Use the room block code, BL1, to ensure you receive the convention room rate. Jernigan Scholarships for National Convention If you have never been to a National Convention, you can apply for a Jernigan Convention Scholarship by going to https://www.nfbofpa.org/jernigan. Good luck! Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.

Imagine a blueprint for remaking America's government from the ground up, drawn by conservative architects at the Heritage Foundation. That's Project 2025, launched in April 2023 with its 900-page Mandate for Leadership, aiming to consolidate power in the president's hands through the unitary executive theory. According to the Heritage Foundation's own document, it unites hundreds of volunteers to advance "positive change for America" by replacing civil servants with loyalists and dismantling agencies.Key proposals target federal agencies head-on. The plan calls for abolishing the Department of Education, shifting programs like the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to Health and Human Services, and limiting federal civil rights enforcement in schools to courtroom battles only. "The federal government should be no more than a statistics-keeping organization when it comes to education," the Mandate states, prioritizing school choice over what it deems "woke propaganda." Similarly, it seeks to eliminate the Department of Homeland Security, folding immigration functions into a new agency, while shrinking the FBI and DOJ under direct White House oversight. The National Federation of Federal Employees warns this Schedule F scheme would reclassify tens of thousands of apolitical workers as at-will political appointees, stripping protections against abuse.Tax cuts for corporations, a flat income tax, Medicaid caps, and repealing Biden's Inflation Reduction Act round out economic reforms. Experts like the ACLU highlight risks: centralizing control could weaponize agencies against reproductive rights, immigrants, and racial equity.By February 2026, as the Center for Progressive Reform's tracker reports, the Trump administration has enacted 53 percent of these domestic policies, with over 213,000 civil servants exiting via buyouts and firings, per the Partnership for Public Service. This illustrates Project 2025's ambition—to reverse decades of bureaucracy for agile, conservative governance—yet critics fear eroded checks and balances.Looking ahead, upcoming milestones hinge on congressional battles over funding and court challenges to Schedule F. Will this reshape American democracy, or spark backlash?Thank you for tuning in, listeners. Come back next week for more.Some great Deals https://amzn.to/49SJ3QsFor more check out http://www.quietplease.aiThis content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

What if blindness wasn't a limitation but a blessing? In this conversation, I talk with Mel Stephens from Australia, a third-generation blind woman living with Rod Cone Dystrophy who believes blindness has given her more gifts than loss. We explore accessibility, guide dogs, mainstream education, Braille literacy, technology, YouTube, independence, discrimination, and what it really means to have a different ability. Mel shares how she built a life around horses, travel, cruising, and running a business, while pushing back against outdated views of blindness. You will hear honest insights about mindset, community acceptance, blind skills, and why learning Braille and orientation mobility still matter in a high-tech world. I believe you will find this both practical and deeply encouraging. Highlights: 00:09 – Hear why blindness is described as a blessing rather than a tragedy. 03:09 – Discover why the real challenge is public perception, not vision loss itself. 11:13 – Learn how mainstream schooling built independence and strong blind skills. 25:17 – Explore the difference between disability and different ability. 50:20 – Understand why relying too much on technology can weaken core mobility skills. 1:01:13 – Get direct advice for anyone losing eyesight or raising a blind child. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: Mel Stephens is a third-generation blind YouTuber from Australia. With parents who are both blind or vision impaired, she grew up learning to stand on her own two feet. A proud guide dog handler, Mel is now teamed up with her second dog, Penelope. She's always been an animal lover—mad for cats, dogs, and horses—and has two of her own, Maggie and Abby. To her knowledge, she's one of the only blind Aussies to rescue and rehabilitate a horse, which she reckons is a pretty fair dinkum achievement. A country girl through and through, Mel has spent most of her life in towns with fewer than 5,000 people, and there's no way you'll catch her living in the big smoke. That said, she does love a yearly trip to Sydney, where she soaks up the atmosphere of the footy and the city buzz—though after a week she's happy to nick off back to the quiet life. When she's not looking after her animals or working as a PA for an orientation and mobility instructor, Mel's usually off travelling. She's train-mad—can't get enough of them—and throws in the odd cruise for good measure. Her adventures are made possible thanks to skills she's built since she was a kid, including mental mapping, echolocation, and her trusty guide dog partnership. Mel doesn't reckon blindness is a disability at all—it's just another way of seeing the world. With a positive, no-worries attitude, she loves showing others that people who are blind or vision impaired can do pretty much anything if given the chance. Ways to connect with Mel**:** Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melsblindlife/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Personal-Blog/Mels-Blind-Life-1326898004158153/ Blog: https://melsblindlife.wordpress.com/author/mickmate9/ Guide Dog Penelope Instagram: https://instagram.com/guidedogpenelope?utm_medium=copy_link Guide Dog Penelope FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/pennyguidedog/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

From Sacred Heart school in EGF, both were chosen to be on the National Federation for Catholic Youth Ministries youth advisory board

What happens when a thriving performing arts career collides with a rare autoimmune disease? In this episode, I talk with Theresa Hill-Putnam about resilience, myasthenia gravis, positive thinking, and building an unstoppable mindset. Theresa owned a large performing arts school for 35 years before COVID and health risks forced her to pivot to virtual teaching. She shares how she was diagnosed after respiratory failure, how she learned to take life one day at a time, and why she believes in flipping the script when challenges hit. We also discuss empowerment coaching, motivational speaking, raising confident children, and her nonprofit, Performers with Purpose Foundation. Theresa's story proves that setbacks can become stepping stones when you choose growth, purpose, and persistence. I believe you will find this conversation both practical and inspiring. Highlights: 00:56 Learn how early dance training helped her overcome childhood shyness and build confidence. 05:03 Hear how a sudden health collapse led to a myasthenia gravis diagnosis. 12:33 Discover why taking one day at a time became her key to resilience. 20:05 Understand why she refused to quit despite being told to go on disability. 22:58 See how COVID forced a rapid shift to virtual teaching and musicals. 56:50 Learn how her nonprofit now provides thousands of Christmas gifts to children in need. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: After Owning and Directing a large performing Arts School for over 35 years, Teresa Hill-Putnam is now a Performance Coach & Empowerment CoachinLos Angeles, California. Teresa is also a published author, Motivational Speaker, and Special Events Coordinator. Teresa has been teaching since 1985. She now coaches singers, actors, dancers, and performers from all around the world. She helps artists master their skills, materials, and mindset. Teresa has helped hundreds of artists develop their talents, follow their dreams, and successfully pursue their career goal. In 1999, Teresa got very sick. In less than a week, she went from being able to dance and hold her leg above her head, to not being able to sit up, roll over, or even feed herself. She was in and out of the hospital for 18 months before she was finally diagnosed with a chronic neuro-muscular disease called Myasthenia Gravis. Teresa has learned to take one day at a time and make the most out of every day. Today, Teresa is happy and healthy. Most people do not even know that she has Myasthenia Gravis. Teresa believes that everyone has a story. She hopes to inspire others by sharing hers. Teresa has published eight books and has a podcast called "Overcoming Obstacles Through Positive Thinking." She has even been featured in in several documentaries. In 2018, Teresa helped to create non-profit called the Performers With Purpose Foundation. She directs performances year-round to help raise money for important community causes. Teresa's favorite project is the PWP annual “Sub for Santa” project. Each year, the Performers With Purpose Foundation provides gifts, toys, and clothing to underprivileged children during the holiday season. After years of being a single, working mom living with a chronic illness, Teresa understands how difficult the holiday season can be for struggling families. Being able to “adopt” families that need help brings Teresa an immense amount of joy! Teresa's most important accomplishment is being a Mom and a "Grammy." Teresa raised her own three children to become happy, healthy, and successful adults. Her oldest daughter owns a Performing Arts School in Denver and has two adorable little boys. Her son is in the United States Air Force and has two darling little boys and a beautiful baby girl. Teresa's youngest daughter, Amber Mackenzie, is a professional actor, singer, dancer and screenwriter. Teresa currently works as Amber's Performance Coach and Booking Manager. Teresa uses her experiences as a mother, "Grammy," teacher, patient, coach, and entrepreneur to help inspire, guide, challenge, motivate, support, and encourage others toward success. Ways to connect with Teresa**:** Teresa's website:  www.spotlightperformers.com Performers With Purpose Foundation website: www.performerswithpurposefoundation.com. Teresa's podcast,, can be found on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, You Tube, or your favorite streaming platform. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAIx8SkZwXXPdNOkzPNHJZFwYne7yo3oG&si=d1yL7Sp4FNRLXdmS Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teresa.hillputnam?mibextid=wwXIfr&mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teresahillputnam?igsh=eTJwazg1enRkb3N2&utm_source=qr LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-hill-putnam-4bb92941?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

In our first full episode featuring a person with a disability who is not blind, Lizzy and Rachel discuss various types of balance in life that are more metaphorical than physical. A distinguished violinist who has played in various orchestras and been featured on tons of media outlets., Rachel describes a very cool looking violin, what it's like to play in arenas across America, and how she met NFBPAD‘s very own Leslie Hamrick. Stay tuned for a musical interlude and a bonus track featuring Leslie! This is an episode you won't want to miss as it is Rachel‘s first time opening up about her disability with the love, hope, and determination that runs through the NFB and this podcast!Song credits:Violin Concertos by Black Composers Through the CenturiesRachel Barton Pine, violinCedille Records CDR 90000 214Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges: Violin Concertoin A major, Op. 5, No. 2 (23:44)José White Lafitte: Violin Concerto in F-sharp minor (21:32)Samuel Coleridge-Taylor: Romance in G major for Violinand Orchestra, Op. 39 (12:32)Encore Chamber Orchestra,Daniel Hege, conductorFlorence Price: Violin Concerto No. 2 (14:42)Royal Scottish National Orchestra,Jonathon Heyward, conductorConnect with the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division!Website: www.nfb-pad.orgLike us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/PerformingArtsDivisionFollow us on X: @NFB_PAD

What if the hardest limits in your life were the ones you placed on yourself? In this episode, I talk with Mitzi Ocasio, host of the “Mitzi, Let's Think About It” podcast and author of four children's books, about overcoming self-doubt, managing time as a mom and creator, and building a brand rooted in curiosity and trust. Mitzi shares how growing up in shelters shaped her humility, how she learned to see her platform as a blessing instead of pressure, and why thinking deeply can change your mental health and relationships. You will hear how she built an award-winning podcast, how she handles criticism, and why grace matters more than judgment. I believe you will find this conversation both practical and inspiring as you reflect on your own mindset. Highlights: 00:02 – How financial hardship built her grit. 03:20 – How constant moves shaped her resilience. 16:07 – Why she launched her podcast in 2020. 23:16 – How she overcame self-doubt. 27:39 – The mindset shift that changed everything. 31:26 – The best advice she got about building a brand. 49:22 – What people get wrong about podcasting. 56:35 – The deeper message behind her novel. About the Guest: Mitzi is an avid advocate for holistic well-being and the host of the "Mitzi, Let's Think About It" Podcast. In her podcast, she delves into topics such as mental health, mindfulness, and personal development, exploring the wonders and challenges of living a healthy, balanced life. Through coursework in psychology, Mitzi has developed an understanding of human behavior and decision-making, while also building a solid foundation in analysis. This dual perspective allows her to approach problems from both a human-centric and data-driven angle. She has dedicated her time to understanding the interconnectedness of mind, body, and spirit. Each week, she presents insightful conversations with experts, thought leaders, and everyday heroes. These conversations have provided valuable insights on topics such as stress management, emotional intelligence, and the power of positive thinking, inspiring and empowering us on our wellness journey. Mitzi is also a self-published author of 4 children's books. She firmly believes that by encouraging children to think differently and more consciously, we can steer the future towards a positive trajectory. She is a strong advocate for the power of our thoughts and the words we choose, as they ultimately shape our lives. When she is not engrossed in her podcast or penning children's stories, Mitzi is a mother to two young boys under four years old, a dog, a cat, and a couple of fish. Her role as a wife to her husband is equally significant. She manages these responsibilities while ensuring a clean, safe home environment for her family to thrive in. Mitzi tries to inspire others not only to think, but to tap into critical thinking. So others' perspective can change their lives into something they never thought about before. Ways to connect with Mitzi**:** Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Mitzi-Think-Inc/100064244280126/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mitzithinkinc X (Twitter): https://x.com/MitziThinkInc LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitzi-ocasio-3a343a24b/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Kevin takes a look at some important policies/regulations and legislative wins during the first year of President Trump's 2nd term; the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) released the Nonfarm Payrolls Report; BLS also released the Unemployment Rate and Labor Participation Rate; the National Federation of Independent Business released the January Small Business Economic Trends (SBET) Report aka January Small Business Optimism Index; Kevin has the details, digs into the details, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and offers a few opinions along the way. 

Dana Pappas is a HALL OF FAME Administrator and she's the Director of Officiating Services for the National Federation of High Schools. Dana shares her journey and some of her Best Practices on this episode of TECH TUESDAY on The Educational AD Podcast!

Fear silences more people than failure ever could. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with world-class speaking coach and author Robert Begley to explore why trust, clarity, and moral character matter more than polished delivery. Robert shares how his journey from a stage-frightened kid in New York to coaching powerful speakers was shaped by Aristotle's timeless principles of ethos, pathos, and logos. Together, we talk about why audiences want conversation, not performance, how stories build trust faster than facts, and why learning to control fear instead of avoiding it changes how you lead, sell, and speak. This is a practical and thoughtful conversation about using your voice with purpose in a distracted and divided world. Highlights: 00:10 – Why trust and character matter more than polish when you speak03:41 – How timeless principles from history still shape powerful communication today08:51 – Why authenticity is essential in an AI-driven, distracted world13:44 – How fear of embarrassment silences people before they ever use their voice17:33 – What speakers can listen for to know if an audience is truly engaged25:06 – Why fear of public speaking is really a thinking problem, not a talent issue33:16 – How storytelling helps messages stay memorable long after the talk ends40:00 – Why learning to control fear, not avoid it, leads to stronger leadership and confidence About the Guest: Robert Begley is a world-class speaking coach, keynote speaker, author, and founder of Speaking With Purpose LLC. With more than 15 years of experience transforming lives through the power of effective communication, Robert helps entrepreneurs, executives, and emerging leaders craft unforgettable presentations that inspire action and drive results. A native New Yorker who once struggled to command the stage, Robert learned to conquer his fear of public speaking and now coaches others to do the same. He has delivered hundreds of presentations across the U.S. and coached NYPD officers, immigrants from tyrannical regimes, Fortune 500 executives, and business owners to speak with purpose, power, and persuasion. Robert is the author of Voices of Reason: Lesso ns for Liberty's Leaders (Indie Books International, 2025), a book that blends public speaking mastery with historical analysis. Drawing on Aristotle's rhetorical principles—ethos, logos, and pathos—he dissects the speeches of iconic figures like Patrick Henry, Frederick Douglass, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Ayn Rand, Martin Luther King Jr., and Magatte Wade to teach timeless lessons for courageous leadership in today's context. He leads multiple coaching programs including Voices of the American Dream, for immigrants learning to share their personal stories, and Elite Speakers Forum, where rising communicators develop their craft in a supportive community. Robert has also partnered with global organizations like Students For Liberty and Liberty Ventures to teach persuasive speaking to international student leaders and business executives. Robert now lives in Orlando, Florida, with the love of his life, Carrie-Ann. When he's not coaching speakers or crafting keynotes, you might find him running Spartan Races, reflecting on philosophy, or attending rock concerts or ballet performances. Ways to connect with Robert**:**

Today, I am joined by Marcel Baettig, artist, cultural leader, and founder and CEO of Bow Arts, one of London's most influential arts and education charities. Over three decades, Marcel has quietly built a values-led social enterprise that provides affordable studios and housing for artists, reaches tens of thousands of young people, and continually reinvests in local communities. This conversation isn't just about scale or success. It´s about precarity, why artists need infrastructure as much as inspiration, and how Marcel's own experience of working as an artist shaped Bow Arts. We explore leadership without ego, the long game of cultural change, and why we need to stop treating artists as an afterthought in regeneration. This episode is for anyone who's ever felt the system is stacked against them - and wondered what it looks like to build a different one. KEY TAKEAWAYS We need to stop accepting scarcity as inevitable, to question who systems are really designed for - building a better art world is not a theoretical exercise. It's a daily practice. Sustainable creative lives are built through shared responsibility and leaders who remember what it feels like to be at the kitchen table wondering how the rent will get paid and still choosing to make the work. If we want artists to survive, we must design practical, long-term infrastructure - affordable space, stable income pathways, and owned assets, not just offer prestige moments or short-term opportunities. BEST MOMENTS “Artists thrive when they are trusted, resourced, and rooted in their communities.” “Artists don't just need opportunities. They need conditions. Time. Space. Stability and a sense their contribution to society is not decorative, but essential.”   THE GUEST Marcel Baettig is the Founder and CEO of Bow Arts, a pioneering London charity providing affordable, sustainable spaces for artists to live and work while contributing to their local communities. Originally trained as an artist, he founded Bow Arts in 1994, and it now supports over 1,100 artists across London, runs a major learning programme that reaches tens of thousands of young people, and reinvests significant funds into local cultural life. He is also a founding director of the National Federation of Artist Studio Providers and has advised bodies including the Mayor of London, Arts Council England, and DCMS on creative workspace and cultural regeneration.  https://www.linkedin.com/company/1639152 https://www.facebook.com/bowarts/?locale=en_GB https://bowarts.org/ HOST BIO With over 35 years in the art world, Ceri has worked closely with leading artists and arts professionals, managed public and private galleries and charities, and curated more than 250 exhibitions and events. She has sold artworks to major museums and private collectors and commissioned thousands of works across diverse media, from renowned artists such as John Akomfrah, Pipilotti Rist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer and Vito Acconci. Now, she wants to share her extensive knowledge with you, so you can excel and achieve your goals. ** Ceri Hand Coaching Membership: Group coaching, live art surgeries, exclusive masterclasses, portfolio reviews, weekly challenges. Access our library of content and resource hub anytime and enjoy special discounts within a vibrant community of peers and professionals. Ready to transform your art career? Join today! https://cerihand.com/membership/ ** Unlock Your Artworld Network Self Study Course Our self-study video course, "Unlock Your Artworld Network," offers a straightforward 5-step framework to help you build valuable relationships effortlessly. Gain the tools and confidence you need to create new opportunities and thrive in the art world today. https://cerihand.com/courses/unlock_your_artworld_network/ ** Book a Discovery Call Today To schedule a personalised 1-2-1 coaching session with Ceri or explore our group coaching options, simply email us at hello@cerihand.com

In this episode of White Canes Connect, David Goldstein sits down with Noor Krraisat, a national scholarship finalist and President of the Pennsylvania Association of Blind Students. Noor shares her journey as a blind college student, future law school applicant, and emerging leader within the National Federation of the Blind. Noor walks us through the entire National Federation of the Blind scholarship experience—from applying and getting the call, to traveling independently to National Convention and navigating a packed, high-stakes week as a finalist. With the scholarship now valued at $10,000, this conversation offers an inside look at what applicants can expect and why this opportunity is about far more than money. You'll hear how the scholarship opens doors to mentorship, community, confidence, and leadership—and how one week at convention can redefine what's possible. Noor explains why every eligible student should apply, how the experience accelerated her involvement in NABS and affiliate leadership, and why the real return on this scholarship lasts long after the check is cashed. What You'll Learn What the NFB scholarship application process is really like What happens after you get the call and become a finalist Why National Convention is a transformative experience for blind students How the $10,000 scholarship can be used—and why the money isn't the best part How scholarships can launch long-term leadership within the Federation Show notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/149           Apply for a $10,000 National Scholarship The National Federation of the Blind is accepting applications for the 2026 NFB Scholarship Program. We offer an array of scholarships to blind students to support their educational and professional goals. In addition to the $10,000 cash award, each recipient receives funding to attend our national convention, opportunities to network with other blind students, and avenues to connect with hundreds of blind professionals. Learn more and apply at https://nfb.org/programs-services/scholarships-and-awards/scholarship-program. Application deadline is March 31, 2026. NFB National Convention July 3-8 in Austin This year's National Convention is in Austin, Texas, from July 3-8. Learn more about the 2026 NFB National Convention at https://nfb.org/convention. Call 800-627-7468 to book your room. The main hotel is the JW Marriott. The spillover hotel is the Austin Marriott Downtown. Use the room block code, BL1, to ensure you receive the convention room rate. Jernigan Scholarships for National Convention If you have never been to a National Convention, you can apply for a Jernigan Convention Scholarship by going to https://www.nfbofpa.org/jernigan. Good luck! Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. We Want to Hear Your Story Reach out with questions and comments, or share ideas! We want to hear from you. Call us at (267) 338-4495 or at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.

Welcome back to the Hangin' with the AD Podcast. In this episode, we're joined by Rob Seymour, an athletic director at Fishers High School in Fishers, Indiana, where he has served since 2014. Rob is the past president of the Indiana Interscholastic Athletic Administrators Association, a member of the NIAAA national teaching faculty for LTC 714, and an National Federation of State High School Associations Level 3 certified coach. In this conversation, Rob shares his “back of the baseball card” story, explains how he uniquely shares the AD role at Fishers, and offers insights on culture change through the lens of Indiana football, purpose-driven leadership, and game-day event management as hospitality inspired by Unreasonable Hospitality. We also dive deep into AI—why Rob embraced it early, how he's using it today for visuals, videos, and daily AD work, how to educate coaches in a rapidly evolving space, and what athletic administrators may still be overlooking about AI's impact on our profession.

What happens when addiction, loss, and uncertainty collide with discipline, honesty, and trust. In this episode, I sit down with David Price, a visionary CEO who shares his journey from growing up with addicted parents and battling his own drug addiction to building a multi-million-dollar insurance organization in less than a year. David opens up about hitting bottom, finding clarity through recovery, and learning how mindset, patience, and consistency reshaped his life and business. We explore what it really takes to build trust, lead people well, and stay focused when growth feels uncomfortable. This conversation is about resilience, personal responsibility, and why an Unstoppable mindset is built one honest decision at a time. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear how David Price's early life with addicted parents shaped his resilience and stress tolerance03:18 – Learn how growing up unstable planted the seed for David's drive to become a business owner05:01 – Discover the moment David realized addiction was no longer something he could manage alone15:51 – Hear the unexpected reason David walked into a recovery meeting that changed everything24:16 – Learn how small, achievable habits helped David rebuild his life after getting clean37:50 – Understand the hard business lesson David learned after choosing the wrong partner44:34 – Hear how losing six figures of monthly income overnight forced David to rebuild from zero53:49 – Learn why David believes trust is more valuable than money when building an unstoppable business About the Guest: David Price – CEO & Founder, The Price Group IMO David Price is the visionary CEO and Founder of The Price Group IMO, one of the fastest-rising organizations in financial services. His journey to success was anything but ordinary. Growing up in a broken home and battling drug and alcohol addiction for years, David hit rock bottom more than once. In 2013, he made the life-changing decision to get clean and rebuild his life. That moment of clarity became the foundation for everything that followed, teaching him resilience, grit, and an unshakable drive to create a better future. In 2018, David discovered the insurance industry. With no prior experience, he earned his license and built a simple, scalable system that allowed everyday people—single moms, career changers, and those just looking for a side income—to succeed. Within 36 months, he became a millionaire, and by his fourth year he was generating more than $1 million annually. In October 2024, he launched The Price Group IMO, partnering with top carriers and introducing a superior lead program that created even greater opportunities for people to work from home and build real financial freedom. In less than 350 days, the organization produced over $10 million in sales, cementing itself as one of the fastest-growing IMOs in the country. Today, David's mission extends far beyond personal success. He is dedicated to helping people reinvent their lives, showing them how to earn an income, work flexibly from home, and build businesses of their own. Many of the agents and agencies he mentors are already on track to reach six and seven figures, proving the power of his model. Beyond business, David is a member of the Forbes Business Council and an active voice on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and YouTube, where he shares transparent insights, strategies, and motivation for people seeking more freedom, flexibility, and purpose in their careers. Ways to connect with David**:**

Don't just listen, call in with your perspective at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Hour 1 of Rush To Reason opens with signature intensity as John Rush and Andy Peth challenge listeners to question narratives shaping today's culture. From mad cow disease and prion science to a fiery discussion on ICE protests, paid activism, and law enforcement, the hour asks a provocative question: how do you talk to family members—especially younger ones—when politics turns personal and divisive? The conversation digs into freedom vs. force, the rule of law, and why enforcement is being reframed as oppression. Mid-hour, the spotlight shifts to pop culture colliding with politics as Andy reviews Melania. Set during the 20 days leading up to Donald Trump's second inauguration, the film is portrayed as a quiet, meticulous character study of Melania Trump—elegant, disciplined, emotionally reserved, and fiercely self-controlled. Andy contrasts glowing audience reactions with hostile critic reviews, raising a bigger question: is the backlash about filmmaking—or ideology? Fast-paced, provocative, and cinematic, Hour 1 feels less like talk radio and more like a trailer for the cultural battles shaping America right now.

Don't just listen, call in with your perspective at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Hour 1 of Rush To Reason opens with signature intensity as John Rush and Andy Peth challenge listeners to question narratives shaping today's culture. From mad cow disease and prion science to a fiery discussion on ICE protests, paid activism, and law enforcement, the hour asks a provocative question: how do you talk to family members—especially younger ones—when politics turns personal and divisive? The conversation digs into freedom vs. force, the rule of law, and why enforcement is being reframed as oppression. Mid-hour, the spotlight shifts to pop culture colliding with politics as Andy reviews Melania. Set during the 20 days leading up to Donald Trump's second inauguration, the film is portrayed as a quiet, meticulous character study of Melania Trump—elegant, disciplined, emotionally reserved, and fiercely self-controlled. Andy contrasts glowing audience reactions with hostile critic reviews, raising a bigger question: is the backlash about filmmaking—or ideology? Fast-paced, provocative, and cinematic, Hour 1 feels less like talk radio and more like a trailer for the cultural battles shaping America right now.

Don't just listen, call in with your perspective at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Hour 1 of Rush To Reason opens with signature intensity as John Rush and Andy Peth challenge listeners to question narratives shaping today's culture. From mad cow disease and prion science to a fiery discussion on ICE protests, paid activism, and law enforcement, the hour asks a provocative question: how do you talk to family members—especially younger ones—when politics turns personal and divisive? The conversation digs into freedom vs. force, the rule of law, and why enforcement is being reframed as oppression. Mid-hour, the spotlight shifts to pop culture colliding with politics as Andy reviews Melania. Set during the 20 days leading up to Donald Trump's second inauguration, the film is portrayed as a quiet, meticulous character study of Melania Trump—elegant, disciplined, emotionally reserved, and fiercely self-controlled. Andy contrasts glowing audience reactions with hostile critic reviews, raising a bigger question: is the backlash about filmmaking—or ideology? Fast-paced, provocative, and cinematic, Hour 1 feels less like talk radio and more like a trailer for the cultural battles shaping America right now.

What does it really mean to live with an unstoppable mindset when life keeps changing the rules? In this conversation, I had the privilege of talking with Linda MacKenzie, whose life story spans poverty, reinvention, creativity, faith, and deep personal responsibility. Linda grew up in the Bronx with very little, learned resilience early, and carried those lessons into a life that has included engineering, broadcasting, authorship, and decades of work around positivity, healing, and intuition. As we talked, we explored fear not as something that controls us, but as something that can guide us when we learn how to listen. We also discussed the importance of trusting your inner voice, choosing kindness even when it feels difficult, and staying grounded in truth rather than noise or fear. I believe this conversation offers something meaningful for anyone who wants to better understand themselves, live with greater purpose, and remember that an unstoppable mindset is built one choice at a time. Highlights: 00:47 – Learn how early poverty and cultural diversity shaped a deep respect for people and resilience.03:25 – Understand why looking at a person's heart matters more than labels or background.07:28 – Hear how lifelong learning and creativity fueled constant reinvention.09:56 – Discover why fear can be used as a signal instead of something to avoid.11:22 – Learn how positive thinking became the foundation for long-term impact.13:09 – Understand why truth and responsibility matter more than opinions.17:49 – Learn how intuition and inner voice guide better decisions.22:29 – Discover the two core fears that drive most human behavior.29:11 – Hear how natural healing and mindset work together over time.32:49 – Learn why giving back to the community creates balance and purpose.46:31 – Understand how positivity shapes collective consciousness.58:58 – Learn what it means to live with responsibility, kindness, and self-trust. About the Guest: Linda Mackenzie is the epitome of the multi- hyphenate! A former telecom engineer who designed worldwide communications networks for the airlines and Fortune 1000 companies, Mackenzie is a mainstay in pioneering entrepreneurial spirit. She launched one of the first used PC stores, a datacom consulting firm,a wholesale gift manufacturing company and was the former President of a mind- body supplement manufacturing corporation. Today she heads one of her proudest accomplishments to date, as President of CREATIVE HEALTH & SPIRIT-- a Manhattan Beach based media & publishing company started in 1995 and Founder of HealthyLife. net - All Positive Talk Radio which commenced in October, 2002. Linda Mackenzie is also an author, radio host, lecturer, audio/ TV/ film producer, screenwriter, Doctoral Clinical Hypnotherapist Candidate, a world- renown psychic who has appeared worldwide on hundreds of radio shows, almost all network and cable TV stations and in several award winning documentaries. Ways to connect with Linda**:** Social Media: Twitter: https:// twitter. com/ lindamackenzie; https:// twitter. com/ positiveradio Linked In: https:// www. linkedin. com/ in/ linda- mackenzie- 590649b/ Facebook: https:// www. facebook. com/ linda. mackenzie. 56 Instagram: https:// www. instagram. com/ healthyliferadio/ You Tube: https:// www. youtube. com/@ LindaMackenzie https:// www. youtube. com/@ healthyliferadio Websites: www. lindamackenzie. net, www. healthylife. net, www. hrnradio. com P. O. Box 385, Manhattan Beach, CA 90267 books@ lindamackenzie. net www. LindaMackenzie. net About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:20 Well, hello, everyone, wherever you happen to be, I am Michael Hingson, and you are listening or watching unstoppable mindset. And today, we have a wonderful guest to talk with. She is an innovator by any standard. She's done a lot of different kinds things. She describes herself as a self as a multi hibernate, and I'm gonna let her explain some of that, but I think she's got some interesting and relevant stories to tell, and I'm really glad to have her here. I'd like you to meet Linda. MacKenzie, Linda, welcome to on top of a mindset. Linda MacKenzie  01:58 Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here Michael Hingson  02:02 and you're in Manhattan Beach, right, correct, yeah. So you're not all that far away from me from where I am, up in Victorville. So you know, we could probably open our windows and if we yelled loud enough, we could hear each other. But anyway, tell me about the early, early Linda, growing up and all some of that stuff. Well, that was kind Linda MacKenzie  02:22 of an interesting journey. You know, I was born in the Bronx. My mother was Bostonian, Irish, and my dad was Northern Italian. He had the red hair. My mother had the dark hair, and a typical Italian family, you know, and Irish family, they were constantly fighting, so I delved into books and ran to the church for peace and quiet and and many, many things like that. And we were very poor, you know, we had two dresses. I had two dresses a year. And we, you know, did, had to come home for lunch because we didn't have lunch money and stuff like that. Walked walk that mile to school, too much to school. And we did. I actually lived on the second highest point on the eastern seaboard and so but we grew up really fun. You know, we had when I was growing up in New York, one one street was Italian, the next one was Irish, and the blacks had a street, and the Japanese had a street, and the Koreans had a street, and the Germans had a street. And we all went to school together, and we had one common denominator. We were poor. So when I had sleepovers, I had every kind of person, and we just took each other for who we were and not what we were. And so that was a very nice thing growing up. And because we were poor, we got a lot of advantages. For example, our chorus was in high school, our chorus was taught by Metropolitan Opera singers. So we learned and got many things. And if you were very bright and understood that, we to try and get everything we could do, you know, and use it to improve yourself, it happened so and that's kind of what we did. Michael Hingson  04:14 Well, I think that's really cool, and it's great that you grew up in an environment where everyone understood that we're all part of the same world and and they got along. So you never really had to face a whole lot of or you see other people face a whole lot of that, the kinds of problems that we see in other parts of the world, that everyone worked out pretty well together. Linda MacKenzie  04:35 Yeah, I for us. We did, and I've learned to take people, but I always looked at the heart of a person. You know, I may never have remembered their name, but I would remember everything they said, and I could see their soul. So I I never, ever really saw color of skin or anything like that, and and so it was kind of an enigma for that. I mean, it was. An easy for me growing up. I mean, I had three attempted rapes before I was 11, you know, you had to learn street smarts. You know, you go to church and you got, you're passing the strip club with, you know, all the drunks trying to grab at you at eight years old, trying to pull you away. So, you know, so you learned real quick on what to do and what not to do, and I ended up getting married, put my ex husband through school. He became a biochemist, and went to college for two years, and then quit and put him through school, and then, you know, had a baby at, you know, is married at 19 and had a baby at 21 and, you know, was divorced at 27 and moved to California at well, divorced at 25 I guess, yeah, and then moved to California in 27 and just had a really interesting life. I've been through every strata society, from extremely poor to not so poor to middle class to nouveau riche to old money. I've even jet set. I've done it all so, great experience, no matter what. Did you ever get remarried? Yes, I did. I got I got married to a commodities broker that actually worked at the World Trade Center and in the Mercantile Exchange up there in the comics and the mercantile and, you know, as a matter of fact, there was one day because I was cute when I was, you know, 2728 and my husband was a broker on a floor trader, and he'd say, come in, as it's this particular time, onto the floor, and come meet me on the floor. Well, they didn't really have a lot of women on the floor. Yeah, back in those days. I mean, you know, back in the days where I grew up, my husband had to approve a bank account if I could have a savings account. So you could, you couldn't even, you know, have a credit card if you were a woman, you know. So I went through a lot of stuff. But anyway, I remember walking on the floor, and the whole exchange stopped because he told me wear a mini skirt. And I did. And he went in and did a whole big thing on trading gold, and made a lot of money that day. Walked on the exchange. That's what ended up happening. But Seth, you Michael Hingson  07:17 talked about, you just made me think of something you talked about, you saw people's hearts and so on, but you never remembered their names. I know for six years I worked up at Guide Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael, which is where I've gotten all of my guide dogs. Because after September 11, one of the things they asked me if I come be their spokesperson. One of the things that we heard, and I never believed in until I saw it in action, is that most of the people at guide dogs know every single dog that goes through the campus bills. They'll never remember your names. They don't remember students names, but they remember the dogs, Linda MacKenzie  07:53 right, right? Well, they have intimate Well, I mean, I remembered my mom's name. Well, that's a start. Michael Hingson  08:04 It's just kind of funny, because, you know, the students and the trainers do get along well, but it's just so funny. How so many people up there would remember the dogs. I could go down the corridor going to the Veterinary Clinic, and people would come up and they go, Hi Rosell, or hi Africa. I can't quite remember your name, but it's so funny. That's great, you know, and can't argue with it. It's nice to be remembered somehow, even if it's for the dog. That's right, that's right. So did you just have two years of college, or did you ever finish? Linda MacKenzie  08:39 Yeah, no, I went back and I got a degree, and then I got grandfathered in, and I have a PhD in clinical hypnotherapy, and I have been recognized as a furthering the profession, and also by the American Board of hypnotherapy, they say that I'm the their most creative, prolific minds, which I said, Oh, good. I can use that in PR for at least 10 minutes? Yeah, at Michael Hingson  09:05 least it's something to say. Linda MacKenzie  09:07 Yeah, no, but I've always I was. My Autobiography is called Life is like Girl Scout badges. I'm kind of writing that so and it's because whenever I finish something or did something, you know, I would go on to something else, because I feel life is just a wonderful thing. So I've done many, many things I've done, you know, when I was 18, I won awards from the Metropolitan Museum of Art for my artwork, and I was offered a contract with Columbia Records to sing, but the promoter, the ME TOO movement was back then too, and I chose not to do it, so I didn't go with them, which is a funny thing, because now I'm 76 this year, and I am producing a children's record and next month, and I've written the songs and done the music, and we've got people from Off Broadway and different kinds of people coming together. For for a wonderful record for children on how to stop negative thought, to stay positive and what and how to transcend fear. So that's my project for this year. You know, so, but I've done so many things. I mean, I don't know where you just start. Michael Hingson  10:18 That's fine. Well, I hope to hear the record someday. Linda MacKenzie  10:22 Oh, you will. It's going to be so much fun. It's so much fun. Michael Hingson  10:26 I you know, you know who Neil sadaka is, yes, and he's got this song, Breaking up is hard to do. Well, it turns out that in 2009 he did a whole album for kids. The title song is waking up is hard to do. It's never it's cute. Somebody told me about it earlier this year, and I went and found it. It is a cute album, and it's the melodies are most all of his other songs, but the words are all kids related, and they're very clever. Linda MacKenzie  10:53 Well, this was a book that I wrote about 20 years ago, and and then I and somebody picked it up, and then they said, you need to write a script. And I said, Well, I don't know how to write a script, so I bought a book and I wrote a script, and they it was picked up while Ron Howard had it, and Hawk Koch, who did sliver, and Deborah Johnson, and it's been in play for 20 years. I mean, the last producers that had it was crazy, Rich Asians, and it was never produced, and every single time they wanted to produce it, so I said, You know what, I'm going to write the book myself. So I rewrote the book. My daughter's doing some education. She's a teacher, so she's doing some educational things so that the people in education can, you know, take the chapters and the characters and learn how to be positive from these things and and it's really kind of a fun thing, so I'm really excited about it. So I just said, I'm not going to wait for them. I'm going to do it because the kids need it now more than ever. They just get away from that social media and to really start connecting and to understand that it's not the witchcraft, it's not the, you know, the social media that, or you know what it is, is your own mind and your own self, and using the quality of your mind and understanding that and moving through it and having a Positive attitude that will get you so far in life, and that's what my goal is, is to just, you know, I've been doing that for almost, I don't know, 40 years. Is my whole goal was truth and positivity. So Well, there Michael Hingson  12:33 you go. By the way, since you have written books, I would appreciate it if you would email me and attach pictures of the book covers, because I'd love to put them out as part of the show notes. Linda MacKenzie  12:45 Okay, great. That would be great. I have four books out. I I had started a positive Talk Radio Network back in 2002 and you know, we're going to a lot of we go. We have 45 hosts. It's live. We do podcasts, and we've been doing podcasts since 2004 if you can believe that, and we were pioneer in internet radio and so and that's because I was an engineer for 18 years, and I was the first woman Datacom engineer in any airline in the world, and designed stuff for Continental Airlines and Western airlines and international airlines and things like that. And, you know, air to ground, radio and right go to the when you go to the airport, if you use computerized tickets, that was kind of my I participated in that with other wonderful people, and I worked with microwave and did all of that as matter of fact, I redesigned a computer center. So every year I've done something, you know, and I've been successful, and then I move on, you know. But the radio network is my longest one. That's 23 years. So we'll be 2024, years this year, which is a lot of years, but we're helping people, because it's all positive talk. So although we do have a news program, I tried to make it positive, but we report the old way, you know, with, you know, checking sources and really having too much opinion. And when you have an opinion, say it's your opinion, you know, not trying to which Michael Hingson  14:21 is fair, which is which is fair. Well, if you ever need a guest on the podcast or on any of the radio shows, just let me know. I'm always looking for opportunities to also be positive and and motivate people. So if Linda MacKenzie  14:33 we can, just have to go to the site, and there's a thing called all shows, and go through all of the hosts, because we have over 45 of them, and, you know, and so, and each one does 14:47 their own. Got it? What's the site? Linda MacKenzie  14:50 Again, it's called Healthy Life. Dot.net. It's or heal thy life.net. So it's healthy life or heal thy life. Same got it? Same thing. Saying different, different way of saying it and and you can listen 24/7, I don't do any apps. We are syndicated on 75 channels of distribution. So if you wanted to get on, tune in, or streama, or some of these other wonderful networks in Europe, you know, we go to 137 countries. So it's a pretty good network. And if you want to be happy and get learn things, you know it's just wonderful. We're starting some new shows that nobody's ever done, and I can do an exclusive here for you, if you want it, our network is going to be doing I've been following a while that there's certain kinds of classical music, right? That when you listen to it can reverse cancer, stop Alzheimer's, stop Parkinson's. And there are certain things at certain frequencies. And I have one of the greatest classical Taurus in the world, in my opinion, and he's going to be doing a show where people can listen to the music and then and help themselves heal right on air, I'm stupid by John Hopkins University. And, I mean, it's not just namby pamby or, you know, La La Land stuff. It's no, I'm saving for certain things. So it's it's really no one's doing that. So it's going to be really fun for me to do. Michael Hingson  16:27 Are you familiar with Joe fatale? No. He is a an individual who has done a lot with with sound to not only help people from a wealth standpoint, but also help them in terms of dealing with health. I've, I've been on a couple of his mailing lists, and he's had some interesting, some interesting things, and a couple of people who've worked with him and so on have been guests on unstoppable mindset. But it's an interesting guy, but definitely parallels a lot of what you're saying, certainly stuff, I have also believed, right? Linda MacKenzie  17:03 We've had Jonathan Goldman, who has written, He's a graduate of Berkeley School of Music, but he's been doing sound healing. It was an interesting story with him, and he's on our network, and he's been doing shows with us for over 20 years. And it was funny, he went to Tibet and he was loved the chants of the Tibetan monks. And he went over there, and he said, can I try that chant? And they said, No, that chant, you know, is like 10 years. You have to do it in 10 years, you know, you have to train for that. He goes, Can I try? And they said, Yes. And he got it perfectly. And so now the Tibetan monks go to train with him in Boulder, Colorado every year around June timeframe. So it's kind of a fun story. So he's been in sound healing for a long time. And there's a lot of different things that are true, but like today, you have to make sure that it resonates with you, because not everything that you're hearing is true, and people are bastardizing things. And the closer you are to the truth, and the closer that you and you can depend on your own truth meter, because everybody's got one, yeah. And if you depend on that and listen to just that, and if it tells you stop, I don't want to do this anymore, then you just go to that point, and then you will get the benefit from everything. Michael Hingson  18:25 One of my favorite things that I've talked about several times on the podcast when I talk to people about inner voices and their thoughts is I ask a number of people, did you used to play or do you play Trivial Pursuit? And when they say, Yes. One of the things I constantly ask people is, how often did somebody ask a question? Immediately you thought of an answer, but you went, Oh, that was just too easy. And so you think again, you come up with a different answer, but the first answer that you thought of was the correct one, which is absolutely all about listening to your inner voice and listening to correct what you're being told. Linda MacKenzie  19:00 That's right. You're 99% right if you listen the first time and don't use your mind to think. You know, the brain is divided into two kinds. You know, the left logical brain. What you need if you're crossing a street. I mean, I would like to know there's a car and step back, but the right side of the brain is where your creativity is, and I call the seat of soul. And what happens is, is that your creative side is the thing that heals you. Your left logical side is just like the monkey mind. And so what happens when you're doing hypnosis? What you're doing is you're getting the left brain to listen to a story, but you before you do it, you have an intention, and the intention is the right brain knows exactly what you need to do, but it's very kind, and it lets the left brain sit there, be in control, except at night, and you'll notice that if you're ill, and when you wake up in the morning, you feel, most times, a lot better. And that's reason is, is because the right side of the mind has. Has actually taken control right and the left side of the brain is sleeping, so your right side of the brain can absolutely heal you. And this is where your your gut feel comes from, too, is from the right side of the brain. And we are much more than we think we are. You know, we're just spiritual beings in a physical body, not a physical being in a you know, we're not just physical beings, you know, right? Michael Hingson  20:28 Well, and it all goes back to the spiritual and to the light. And absolutely is true. I know that I've, we've had on on this podcast, a number of Reiki Masters and other people, and we've had people who bring on singing musical bowls and so on. Linda MacKenzie  20:50 And it's interesting about that, because, you know, here in Japan, Reiki has 12 levels, but they're only taught three here, and they're never taught the level to where you protect yourself, because when you're out there in the universe and you're going into doing some of these things, everything exists, even a thought form exists. So you want to make sure that you're as protected as possible when you're doing these things right and so, but most of the people don't know, because they don't allow you to do that. And Reiki, there is a you're there in it, day in, day out. That's your career. You know, it's not just a pastime. And the Tibetan bowls are great. However, for me, when they do the regular way of doing it, it's like chalk on a chalkboard. For me, when they do it opposite and backwards, I'm in heaven. So it's really interesting how everybody's body is different. Every person is unique. And we have to understand that when we're looking at health or with mind or with body, we want to understand that we are so important. Each one of us is important. Never should be belittled or, you know, and treat everybody with kindness and love and and respect and truth Michael Hingson  22:06 exactly right. And I'd love to see a whole lot more of it than oftentimes we do see, but I know that that it's so important that we focus on doing things to protect ourselves. And one of the things that that I talk about is I wrote a book that was published last year called on stop or excuse me, called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith. And the whole idea behind the book was that at the beginning of the pandemic, I realized that although I had escaped from the World Trade Center, and I had, in fact, known what to do, which was a mindset that clicked in when the emergency happened. I never really worked to teach other people that. So I wrote, live like a guide dog, and used lessons that I learned from all of my guide dogs and my wife's service dog, the lessons from those dogs to, in fact, learn how to deal with the different things that we have to deal with, and learn how to, in reality, control, protect ourselves and move forward in a positive and constructive way. In other words, really learning about the fact that you can control fear. Fear is not something that you you need to allow to overwhelm or, as I put it, blind you or paralyze you. The reality is that fear is a wonderful thing that you can use as a very powerful tool to help you function and succeed even in the most adverse circumstances possible. Linda MacKenzie  23:40 Well, I one of the songs on the record is called fear is fear is my friend, and it's a wonderful song, and it teaches you that fear. I did a big study for 20 years on fear, right? Because the only way that people can control you is through fear. Okay? If you don't have fear, no one can control you. No one, okay, yeah. Michael Hingson  24:08 Well, and just to interrupt for a quick sec, I would say it's not that you don't have fear, but you control it. Linda MacKenzie  24:16 Well, you overcome it. You Michael Hingson  24:17 exactly, right, exactly. You use it. You use it in a powerful, better way. Anyway, go ahead, right? Linda MacKenzie  24:23 Well, fear does, for me is that when fear comes in, it's, it's a wake up call, saying, yeah, look at this. What is it that you're fearful of, and what? Because the only way you can go through exactly right through it. And so when I did this study, it was very interesting, because I found that fear comes from two places. One is a fear of loss, and the other is a fear of death. When you fine tune fear all the way all the way all the way all the way down, it's fear of loss or fear of death. And it's funny, because we come in with nothing, we're leaving with nothing. The only thing we take. With us is the love we give and the love we get. That's it. And I've been on the other side and worked on the other side for the British government and all sorts of stuff, so I know that there's life after death, yeah. And so therefore there's really nothing to fear except to find out what the lesson fear is trying to teach you when you learn it, and you learn it all the way that lesson, you will never have to repeat it in your life again. And so fear is so, so important, and yet not to be feared. Don't fear Michael Hingson  25:35 don't fear it. No, as I said, it's a very powerful tool that can help in so many ways, right, which I think is really important. Well, after college, you started working at various things. What did you do after college? What was kind of your first endeavor? Linda MacKenzie  25:51 Well, I started with the New York telephone company, and I was called when I was selling touch tone telephones. They had just come out. Michael Hingson  26:01 Was it, was it called? Was it called 9x then? Or was it was that? Linda MacKenzie  26:05 Well, in New York, it was no. It was, yeah, that was the trade trade, yes, but it was New York telephone company, yeah. And then I went to work for the National radiology registry, and I designed a prison. When I moved to California, I started to really take off, and I designed a people coming out of prison weren't able to get jobs and and so the X ray they did teach in some prisons in Chino, as a matter of fact, how to become a x ray technician and and so, and an ultrasound wasn't even out back then, back in 77 so I started a prison program to it was a temporary agency so that when a doctor's office or a hospital, their x ray technicians didn't show up, they would call us, and then we would send somebody out, and then they would like the people we would send, and they would give them jobs. So the we so I tried to do that. And then I started working for the airlines and and I they said, Well, do you want to be a reservation person? I said, No. And they said, Well, do you want to be, you know, at the ticket counter agent? Yeah, no, no. He said, Do you want to be a flight attendant? I said, No. And they said, Well, what do you want to do? And I said, Put me in accounting at the mail desk. I want to see where the money goes, and then I'll figure out where I'm going to go. And they said, What? And I said, Just do it, you know. And I had made friends with someone, and so they gave me the job, and I kept moving. And every six months I'd find another error, a million dollar error, and this and this and this. And I finally worked my way up into computers and and then I was the very first woman in any as a data com engineer in any airline in the world. And I started doing a lot of things like that, and then went to work for Western airlines. And then I did worked for CETA, which is Society International Telecommunications aeronautic, which is a largest telecommunications company in the world, based in France and Switzerland. And then I from there, after my daughter graduated from college, I said, enough of this engineering. And so I quit, and I started a metaphysical company, and I got onto a lot of TV. I started my radio show in 1996 I started writing books, and I then from there, I was president of a dietary supplement manufacturing company for a while, and then I manufactured audio tapes and and our company, our vitamin company, was the first company to do mind body medicine. So we would have my partner, was Vice President from GNC, and we started a business in New York and in California. And what we did was we would do an arthritis formula, which she was great at formulation. She was one of the best in the biz. And I would do audio visualization tapes, so that when you were taking the formulas, you would be working on a body level, but the mind would, you would start helping to grow bone with the mind. So we were the first ones to do all these wonderful things for that. And we sold to Trader Joe's and house markets and all sorts of stuff. And then the big farmer came in, and then that was that, you know, they bought up almost all the vitamin companies, and then they started, you know, most of the vitamin companies out there aren't worth their salt, and they're not giving you good vitamins. So and then from there, I went into doing the radio network and which I've been doing, and then I stopped doing books. And then two years ago, I said, you know, I'm getting old, and if I want to get these books out, I better get them out. So I probably. Myself that I was going to do one a year. And for the last two years, I did those two new books, and then I was, I was going to do the children's book this year, but they say that April is the best time to release a children's book is that's when the stores and the education people are looking at it and getting towards summer and all that. Yeah, yeah. So I'm waiting until next year to release that, the album and stuff. But so this year I had to put together a new book, which I'm doing. I just, I'm almost finished with that, so I can release it in September, and that is going to be where it's, I think it's going to be called, help yourself heal with natural remedies or naturally, and it's going to have 40, or about 40 different illnesses, and all the natural medicine with it, plus in the back, it's going to have what is an amino acid, all these terms, so that people can understand. I like to do things that are complete and and I don't do anything if somebody has to get something from a book or a product or a thing that I do. Otherwise I won't do it, yeah, because I want it for everyone, you know. So, so anyways, I'm, I'm working on that as we 31:08 speak. Well, there you go. Well, Michael Hingson  31:11 so it'll be out in like, September or October. Linda MacKenzie  31:14 Yeah, exactly. I'm, I'm doing, I'm just about completed with it, and I just have about three or four chapters to go, but I keep finding new things I want to put in. For example, you know, since there is a censorship on the natural health sites, I'm going to include all of the wonderful health site, health natural health sites, so that people will have a reference so they don't have to worry about things, you know and where to get information. So it's going to be good. Michael Hingson  31:44 Well, when that book gets to the point where you have a book cover, I certainly want to put that in the show notes as well. Speaker 1  31:50 Okay, great. That'd be great. And Michael Hingson  31:53 maybe we can release this about the time the book is is made visible to the world, so that that'll help. Speaker 1  32:01 That'd be great, sure. Well, so what Michael Hingson  32:05 do you consider your profession today? Linda MacKenzie  32:09 Me, I'm my own profession. Me, the I don't have a profession. I have many hats that I'm wearing, right? So I mean tremendous amounts. I'm still running the radio network, and in a radio network, you need 21 individuals to do it, and there we have four, and I'm doing about, I don't know, 10 or 12 of the 21 things to do. So if you want to give me a hat for there, that's that. And then I'm an author and I'm doing the record, so I'm that, and I'm a radio host and, you know, and I give pictures. And the thing is, is that it's like, I'm not busy enough, but I love giving back to the community, because, you know, when you are there's six things you need in your life to be happy and balanced, right? And one of them is giving to the community. So I wasn't really before covid, I was doing a lot, but I wasn't really doing anything for my community. So what I did was I it took me four months. They had to do a homeland security check and a thumbprint and, you know, all sorts of stuff, to do guided meditation for healing for seniors. So we're going to be taking, and that's starting in two weeks, in August 8, and we're, we're going to be doing at the Senior Center in Redondo Beach and and so people will come, and we're going to work on different kinds of anti aging issues, like arthritis and, you know, macular degeneration and bones and diabetes and stuff, and every every two weeks, I'll be doing a guided meditation and helping people heal with that. So, so now I've got the community in and so I've got all my six pieces of my pie, and now I'm stable again. Michael Hingson  34:00 There you go. It's nice to have peace in the world, right? Yeah, it is. It is. So tell me, given all the things you've done, tell me a story or two about things that you've done, something very memorable that comes to mind. Linda MacKenzie  34:15 Oh, there's so many, I'm sure. I mean, because on top of that, you know, I've been a psychic since I'm eight years 34:21 old, right? So how did you discover that? How did Linda MacKenzie  34:25 you I saw God when I was eight? Okay, I'm very God based. I'm not from the planet Altair or the universe. I never took a course. I mean, I listened to God. God said, Jump. I said, Hi. How high and and that's what I do. But I've done I'm very respected in the community. I do a lot of, like, a lot of things for for that, there's, you know, I've done documentaries on it, and there's 17 different distinct psychic abilities. I have them all, and I don't do. Two of them, I don't do prophecy and I don't do trans mediumship, which means that an entity will jump into you and talk through you. And that happens because for a long time, I was on ABC, NBC, BBC, Japan TV. I worked with International Society for paranormal research, and we went over to London to investigate for the British government, you know, some of the Belgrave Hall, whether the ghost things were real or not. And one of the things that was interesting, because there's a lot of stories on those you know that are like, kind of titillating, or saying, Oh, what's going on? I was so basically, I tested my abilities for 37 years before I came out. So what I would do is say I was 16, and I would have pre Cognizant dreams. So I would write the dreams out. And what I would do is I would give them to my girlfriend after I wrote them, and then when one of the dreams would come true, I'd have a witness that was there with me, and I'd go over to her house, and I'd say, hey, Eileen, can you pull the dream with the roller coaster there? And she would pull it out. And then I said, read it. And then that way, I learned to decipher what was coming from God, what was coming from me. Because, you know, there's a lot of, you know, where if you don't know how to manipulate the energy. So it was a long, long time I, you know, by the time I was 15, I had read every metaphysical book in the New York Public Library, everyone, and so I took it very seriously. And I was, you know, busting psychics in New York at 21 and and then finally I just stopped, and I didn't come back out until I was about 37 and so when I went to London, they there was a, we had a Cora Derek. A Cora was the one of the leading psychics in London. And then we had Peter James, who was on sightings. And then we had me, and we three went over. And then we would go into they would take us individually to these different sites. And they would say, Okay, what do you feel, and what do you see? And so I would be taking, you know, they take me to these different things and, and I would see all these different things, and I would say it, and it turned out, I'm saying I'm not very comfortable here. I'm not comfortable here. And then we go to the next site, and I would tell them, Oh, I see a woman with a red hat. And I gave them names and places and dates and and it turned out that they were taking me on the path of Jack the Ripper, and to the point where I gave them new information on Jack the Ripper that they never had before. And so I have an ability that I can stand on a piece of ground, and I can go back to the beginning of time and tell you names and dates and places of who was there all the way back up. So there's a lot of things, and the government has asked me to work for them on many projects. They've been charting me since I'm 15 and so, and I just don't, I don't do and one, and I'm not going to say which, but one of the presidents of the United States, when they were in office, asked me to be their psychic, and I told them, I don't do politics, sports books or lottery tickets, and I turned them down. I mean, I was going to go to dinner with them, because Henry Kissinger was going to be my dinner partner at the Jonathan club, you know. And I thought he was an interesting guy, you know, whether you liked him or you didn't like him, he was an interesting guy. And I like to meet different people, because even if you it's not somebody you like, you need to understand the people so that you know how to handle them in a correct manner, you know. And so even if you don't like someone, you treat them with respect, and you learn you better, you understand, you know. So, so that's those are some stories. Michael Hingson  39:01 So, so let's, let's get to the reality of the world. Did you ever visit the Del Coronado hotel and talk to the ghost down there? Linda MacKenzie  39:08 Yes, oh, good. We did. We were one. We were the group that was doing it, that was filmed. We did the Queen Mary. We did. We were, if you saw that on television. It was probably me there. It wasn't as as haunted as some of the other places. I mean, you know, there was one place in England that was very interesting, so we did a documentary called ghost of England, and there was a one house. I don't remember the name of it, but there was a three generations that had died that were still in the house. The house was in the family for 300 years, and I released a little girl there that was eight, that was a, you know, a spirit there, and I released her to her mom. She had died of consumption. It was really interesting, because. Because they knew of each other, and it was, here's these three different generations, and they can see each other, and they know each other. So that was very interesting, because the Society for paranormal research actually did research into the phenomena of ghosts and the ghost at Belgrave Hall, we found we were very truthful. There was no ghost at Belgrave Hall, okay? I mean, it was explained away by phenomena that, you know, street lights and rain stuff. So we did a lot of that, but we wanted to make sure that everything that we did was in truth. And then another thing that we found was I did another documentary called ghost of New Orleans. And New Orleans is a very, very, very strange place. And I actually went back and they asked me to do a I did a 17 part interactive museum display for a paranormal Museum in New Orleans, and it was all teaching about psychic ability and how not to fear it. And it's not the devil's work. It's, you know, it's just a natural ability that we have. And I wanted people to understand that, but get the truth not from a lot of these people that are just talking that don't know, you know. So anyway, so we did in New Orleans. It was interesting, because the ghosts work together. We were all on different floors, and on each floor, they would give us papers, and they would, you know, newspapers in the morning, and the newspapers would end up in our rooms, in different places all the time, and it was just and we didn't move them. Nobody touched them. The room wasn't able to get in. So there's all sorts of phenomenon there that is just kind of interesting, you know, there. Michael Hingson  41:47 So just, does some of that have to do with voodoo and so on, but just because they're so prevalent down Linda MacKenzie  41:52 if you understand that everything exists, you have to none of that was the voodoo, because, very specific thing, yeah, and it's a specific practice, okay, and so it's not something that I would get into. Or, do you know? I mean, it's not we were, I was attacked several times there. I mean, we went into a we went into a house where there was an entity there that had committed 27 murders, and it was they were all buried in the backyard, and they never even knew until we told them about it, when he came after me on that and so you know, you you have to know what you're doing when you're Doing this, too, you know. So you know, but most ghosts, you just tell them to go away, or if you and sometimes you want to see them, you know, maybe it's your mom or your dad that you're missing. So one of the ways that you can do that is you can say, Hey, before you go to sleep, put a pen and a pencil by your bed, and just say, I would like to see you, dad tonight, and and then you say, I would like to remember that I saw you, yeah. And then when you get up in the morning, you just jot down little words or something, anything that you remember. And then after a while, you'll be able to get a rapport where you'll be able to start to remember, and then able to communicate. Michael Hingson  43:23 Yeah. And the reason I asked about the Dell, just because that's that is a a ghost I've, I've heard so much about, and a friendly ghost, as I understand it. So there's a woman, I guess what? She died in a room there. But it's one of the things that everybody talks about with the Dell all the time, of course. Linda MacKenzie  43:40 Well, one of the funniest things that happened was, well, there was two funny things. One was, you know, we were at the doing the the Comedy Store, the magic and magic club. And the Comedy Store is what that Tootsie shores place, anyway. So we were doing, doing the Comedy Store, and there's a ghost there that puts his hands up people's skirts. Well, that's nice. I went in there, and they didn't tell me, and all of a sudden, I'm going, what the heck. And I look there and I see and I and these, and they said, Oh yeah, we forgot to tell you. I said, Yeah, you didn't forget you wanted to catch that on camera. I said, Well, you did. So it's funny. It's a comedy Michael Hingson  44:28 story. I'm sure the ghost thought it was funny. Linda MacKenzie  44:30 Yeah, he did. I bet. So, yeah. So there's, there's, I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of stories and and that's my book coming out in 2027 that's going to be called, and then what happened? Paranormal stories, believe it or not, you know. And those are going to have 40 stories in there on things that have happened to me, where people are going to say what? And you can believe it or not, that's coming Michael Hingson  44:58 up too. So do. Well, and that's that's ultimately it. People can decide to believe it or not, and a lot of people will poo, poo it. It doesn't change the reality of the situation, though, Linda MacKenzie  45:12 no, but you know, it's okay. Wherever you are is good, as long as you love one another, or at least try and be kind to one another. I think we can accomplish a lot just by doing that, yeah, and agree to disagree. You know, we we don't have to get upset if the other person has 100% doesn't agree with us. We have to just agree to disagree and not try and get heated. But the Michael Hingson  45:38 other, the other side of that, or the other part of that, not the other side, is that if you really take that, that tact, and you agree to disagree and you continue to converse, you never know what you're going to learn, as opposed to what we see so often now, somebody disagrees, and there's just this complete block wall that comes up. There's no discussion at all, and that's never a good thing to do. Linda MacKenzie  46:03 Well, this morning on my radio show was interesting. I went out with a girlfriend of mine, and she's really into these conspiracy theories, and I'm just not there, you know. So she was trying to put her point through and saying, you know, the collective consciousness has to understand this so we can do something about it. And I said, Yeah. I said, Well look, I said, Here's what I've decided. I said, I'm 76 if somebody else wants to do the activism for this kind of stuff, then at 50, go and do your thing. I said, but I think that when you start getting angry and you start getting heated, what's happening is the collective consciousness is there for everyone. We're all part of everything. We are part of everyone and everything. And so when you get upset, that's not helping the consciousness to make everything right. And if you get a group of people thinking the same thought, you can actually change consciousness and make the world better. So instead of sitting there, do something about it. Donate to something. But don't just sit there and talk about it, you know, actually do something about it and start making sure that you're staying positive about it, and what you can do positively for the situation. And don't get caught in the controversy because you're making more negative energy, yeah, and that never works, no. Positive always overcomes negative. So if you want something to happen, think positive, be buoyant, positive always overcomes negative. So you need to do that. Michael Hingson  47:39 And it is, it is so true, and so many people, you know, we're, we're in a world now where there's so much negativity. It's so unfortunate, because I think people miss out when they do that. And you're right, that's, it's not really part of the good, constructive collective consciousness, either, Linda MacKenzie  48:00 right, right? So we just have to, you know, people think that they can't do anything when things happen. And what I'm saying if you come from the premise that everything is energy, right? And so if you are just loving your spouse or loving your dog or being kind to people that energy is positive, right? And so sure you are doing something, because if we make a lot of positive energy in that collective consciousness, as above so below, right? So if we go ahead and do that, then it will drift down, and we will have a better, happier place, but being negative doesn't help you. Negative makes your immune system depressed. It gives you illness, and it's these are all proven things, so you might as well stay positive. And I don't mean Pollyanna, where you don't things, but you know, understand things and understand that there's a greater force in the back of things too, that, you know, it's not just all about us. You know, there is a for me. I believe that there's a God, and God is in control, and so we have to trust that to some degree. Michael Hingson  49:14 On September 11, and I wrote about this in my book thunder dog, and I've talked about it a few times here, when I was running away from tower two, because I was very close to it when it collapsed. The first thing I thought of as I started to run was, God, I can't believe that you got us out of a building just to have it fall on us. And immediately I heard in my head, as clearly as we're talking right now a voice that said, don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on running with Roselle, who is my guide dog, and the rest will take care of itself. And I immediately had this absolute sense of peace and calm and conviction that if I did that, I'd be fine. And I was so. I'm saying that in part to tell you I understand exactly what you're saying, and that was kind of perhaps one of my experiences. But the bottom line is that we need to learn to listen. And one of the things that I talk about and live like a guide dog is that so many people worry about every little thing that comes along. They are just worried about, how am I going to deal with this? Or the politicians are going to do this to me and that to me and everything else. And the reality is, we don't have control over any of that. What we have control over is how we deal with stuff. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't be aware of what's going on around us. But by the same token, if we worry about every little thing, and we don't really worry about the things over which we have some influence, we're only hurting ourselves. Linda MacKenzie  50:50 And it delays it, and it delays it, and it delays it. So you if you want things to get over quickly, learn to listen. And sometimes, you know, people would say, what is meditation? And I said, Well, it's kind of like prayer. You're listening to God's answers, you know. So I mean, there, I've never been alone, because I've always had a very strong connection with God. And as a matter of fact, it was very interesting. I'll tell you the story about the radio network, and basically, I had just been offered by Sci Fi Channel. They said, We love working with you. So would you take and there was a big 51:31 ghosty, a ghost Linda MacKenzie  51:36 show coming up. It was very big. And I said, No, I won't do that because it wasn't in truth, and you just want to make people cry. You want to feed off those emotions. That's not me. So Mary from sci fi said, You know what, Linda, we like working with you, so just go home and design a show for us, and we will do it. So I got home and I was so excited, because now I was going to make the big money, and I was going to get known and God comes in, and he goes, Linda. And I said, What? And he said, I want you to start a radio network. I said, What? And he says, Well, look. He goes, I gave you all the tools to do it. He goes, You were a data com engineer, you've been in radio. He goes, you're doing positive stuff. He goes, I want you to do a positive network. And I'm going, Wait a minute. I says, you know, I'm just getting this big opportunity, you know? And he goes, Well, listen, he goes, You know, when you're doing a lecture, now you're he goes, you get 1000 people coming to your lecture. He goes, so you're a point of light. He goes, think if you were to get 4045, people to do a radio network, all with positive thought. He goes, then you become a lighthouse. And I said, Okay. And I said, But what about this opportunity? And he goes, Well, you don't have to do it. And I said, well. I said, God is asking me, and I'm going to say, No, I'm not going to do that. I said, No, that's not going to happen. I said, and my Italian came in because I said, Okay, I'll do it. But when I get upstairs, you and I have it a sit down, and he just laughs. He thinks I'm funny so, and he has always been with me 100% of the time. And a lot of times he'll tell me, No, you can do this yourself. You do it, you know. And so I but I've been in a realm where I can go back and forth and I understand, you know. And I talk, you know, you can talk to anybody you want, sure, if you're if you're there, you know, if I need help from Einstein, I'll say, Hey, Uncle L, I need you what? And I go, ask God, Michael Hingson  53:43 yeah, it's it's interesting. It's so many people just belittle so much and but everyone has to make their own choices, and I don't have control over the the choices that people make. I can only talk about my experiences and what I do and so on, and people have to make up their own minds. Which is, which is the way it should be. I think that all of us are individuals that are given the opportunity to make choices, and we can decide how we want to proceed, and the time will come when we will have to defend our positions, or it will have all gone really well. And so the bottom line is that that we make the choices and we have to live by what happens as a result the consequences Linda MacKenzie  54:36 right, and we have to take to learn, to get take responsibility for our actions. You know, the songs on this album address all the major things that we need to do to stay positive and to have a happy life. And so it's not just for kids, it's for parents, and it's for grandparents, and it's for anyone who wants to listen. And it's it's going to be a good. Thing when I get this all done, and I'm it's one of them, my, one of my projects that I wanted to do for a lifetime. And once I get this done, I'll be happy. Michael Hingson  55:09 So well, you do a lot of different stuff. You must have a personal life too. How do you balance the two? Well, and what do you do in your personal life? Linda MacKenzie  55:20 Well, I love to exercise. I do. I love to cook. So once a month I do a psychic soiree, you know, so I do. I've been on a specific diet, you know, no dairy, no salt, no sugar, no effervescence, no since 1992 I don't go to medical doctors. I haven't been to a medical doctor since 1992 and I do everything with just herbs and exercise and getting enough sleep and stuff. So I cook for dinners, and I have a family, and we go out, and I have wonderful friends and bands that I follow in town, so we go out. And I'm actually even going out on a date next this coming Thursday night, which hasn't been for a long time, but so there's and then I do a lot of working with the senior centers and so and then do and I love watching dumb TV that I don't have to think. I like dumb Michael Hingson  56:23 I like dumb TV too. I know exactly what you mean when you say that. I have always been a fan, also, of old radio shows. So I love listening to all the old time radio shows from the 30s, 40s and 50s and so on. And some of them can make you think. But by the same token, the reality is that there's something to be said for just being able to escape, right? Linda MacKenzie  56:46 My latest thing is watching Chinese soap operas. They're 40 episodes long, and I love them. And even though they're subtitles, you get to see how they think and how a different kind of person, you know, culture thinks and does, and it's interesting that you can see how much the same they are as we you know, that they want the same things, they have the same values. You know, because we are all the same, and we have to understand that Michael Hingson  57:19 I know, one of the things that I've said many times, that I know, I'm sure, that a lot of people just think I'm crazy, but I point out that what happened on September 11 was not a religious war. It was a bunch of thugs who wanted to try to bend the world to their will. But that's not the the Islamic religion. The reality is that all of the religions, all the major religions, especially in the world, are always to get to God, and Far be it from me, to judge someone else because they happen to belong to a different religion or subscribe to something different than what I do. Linda MacKenzie  57:54 Well, it's interesting that I did a study on religion. As a matter of fact, on on our radio network we have James Bean, and he's been doing, he was on wisdom radio, so for 40 years, he's been doing spiritual awakenings, where he does comparative religions. And it's interesting that all of the religions have a, you know, a Jesus, you know, or a Mohammed, and they all die, and they all get resurrected in three days. Every single one of the religions has that. And if you and every single one of the religions has a version of the Our Father, Mm, hmm, almost exact words, because Jesus, you know, so, so you know, as far as respecting other religions. I think you have to too. But nothing should be overwhelming, you know, right? Like, oh, absolutely nothing should be overwhelming on because of religion. Like, I don't think that the girls should have to wear burkas because it's religious, right, you know. I think there's some things that you know are not exactly right. Michael Hingson  59:00 Well, you know, Tolstoy once said The biggest problem with Christianity is that people don't practice it. It's the same sort of That's right, concept. I agree with you. I don't think that girls and women should have to wear burkas or not be educated, or not be educated. Well, I wish, I really wish they would be educated, yeah. And so today, actually, yeah, oh, they do and and I think more and more people are beginning to realize it, but not enough yet, in some of these countries where they're willing to stand up and and say, We're not going to tolerate this anymore. Linda MacKenzie  59:32 But I hope about the money, though, unfortunately, so it's power and money, but when they understand that it's the love and kindness that's more important, and that's the only thing that you take with you. Yeah, maybe we can change this world, and I hope we do well. Michael Hingson  59:50 I agree with what you're saying, and I think that people, but people do need to, at some time, recognize that there's something. To be said for principle in the world too. 1:00:02 Yes, I agree. So what Michael Hingson  1:00:08 do you hope that people gain today from listening to your show? Linda MacKenzie  1:00:13 Well, today we did a really, kind of an interesting thing. It was called Linda's world. And once a month, at the end of the month, I don't even know what I'm going to say, and so I come on and I just talk, and we talk a little bit about current events, and then we talked about anti aging, and I do herb of the week, and I give you different kinds of information on that, and we did all these things on anti aging and what vitamins and different things that can help you doing it. And so it's really we do spirit, and we do mind, body, spirit. So you know, you can go to healthy life.net, and click on podcast on demand. There's two buttons at the top. One is Listen Live. You just click on that. We don't have an app. We don't track you. We just allow you to listen for free. And we also have a podcast network with 3200 podcasts from wonderful, wonderful people, some who have passed over, but now, but they're still there, and they have still valuable information called HR and podcasts.com that's 3200 free podcasts there that people can access as well. So you can go to the podcast on demand button, click that, and you'll find my face, or look for Linda McKenzie, and click on that, and there'll be, I think, three months of shows that you can listen to, and you can see all the different kinds of topics. And I'm usually booked six months in advance, because I've been doing radio for so long, there's a lot of people that really like to come in, so I hope that people get one idea, one thought that makes their life positive from the show. And hopefully I'm giving 60 of them, Michael Hingson  1:01:52 yeah, I hear exactly what you're saying. And you know, if I can inspire one person when I speak, if I can get people to think a little bit more about something, then I've done my job right, and I think that's the only way to do it. Well, if people want to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to contact you? Linda MacKenzie  1:02:14 Okay, well, you can reach me if you want to email me. It's Linda at Linda mckenzie.net and that's m, A, C, K, E, N, Z, I, E, all one word, and Linda mckenzie.net that's my website, or they can go through healthy life.net and get me through that way too. And of course, I'm on all of the social media sites as well, right? You know? And on my website is all my appearances. I go up to San Jose and do expos and talks. And, you know, just did, just came and finished a past life regression class. I think I'm going to be doing a gemstone healing class. And, you know, whatever strikes me for the moment is what I do. So you never know. So you go on there, and you know, they want me. I've done a TV show this year, and they want me to do another one and continue. I said, Well, kind of have to pay me, because I'm doing a lot of stuff, you know, you know, you have to give me a little bit more money if you want another one. So I gave them their one, first one, and it's called Live with Linda, and that you can reach on, it's on Roku and Amazon, and that was just last September, and it's live with Linda, and it's also on soul search.tv and you can get it there as well. Michael Hingson  1:03:30 So did the Sci Fi Channel ever come back to you anymore? Linda MacKenzie  1:03:33 No, no, just checking that time, you know, I wasn't young and cute anymore. Now cute. I'm still, Michael Hingson  1:03:40 yeah, you're cute. I believe it'd be cute. You're cute. I'm cute. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening. I hope that you've learned something that you find there are relevant things that Linda has had to say. I'd love to hear from you. Please email me at Michael H, I, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, I'd love to hear your thoughts about today, wherever you are experiencing the podcast. Podcast, please give us a five star rating. We value it, and we value your thoughts and your comments, and for all of you, and Linda you as well. If you know of anyone else who we ought to have as a guest on unstoppable mindset, please introduce us. We're always looking for more people to visit with and talk with. As I've said many times, I believe everyone has a story to tell and and we a

In this episode of I Can't See You, I break down how the Ray-Ban Meta glasses became a real travel tool—from PHL to Podfest in Orlando. I used "Hey Meta, what's in front of me?" to read signs, confirm gates, navigate MCO, and find my way around the Renaissance at SeaWorld and the conference sessions. Along the way, I share a funny airport moment when people thought I was talking to them, plus the soft pretzel mission that finally paid off (pretzel braid, Apple Pay, done). I also recap Podfest highlights—AI, video workflows, and new strategies like Pinterest—while sharing where the tech nailed it and where it still annoys me. Show notes at https://www.iCantCU.com/295     Links Mentioned Product links are affiliate links so that I may earn a commission. Ray-Ban Meta Glasses, Wayfarer: https://amzn.to/42EU0Sy Like the sunglasses Jane bought for me? https://amzn.to/4oGWLfx From Where to Here Podcast: https://fromwheretoherepod.com/ Federation Focus on the NFB of PA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa I edit the show with Descript and love it!: https://www.iCantCU.com/descript/ I process all audio using Auphonic: https://auphonic.com?source=dgdesignllc Be My Eyes app (free): https://www.bemyeyes.com/  Seeing AI app (free): https://www.seeingai.com/  That Real Blind Tech Show ep 195: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-195-ces-26-hard-tech-and-soft-balls/id1526258077?i=1000744724124 Watch iCantCU episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU Support iCantCU When shopping at Amazon, I would appreciate it if you clicked on this link to make your purchases: https://www.iCantCU.com/amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associate Program and earn commissions on qualifying purchases. The best part is, you don't pay extra for doing this! White Canes Connect Podcast Episode 148 In episode 148 of White Canes Connect, we share the powerful General Sessions remarks of David DeNotaris from the 2025 National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania State Convention in Harrisburg. Speaking from a lifetime of experience, David reflects on growing up with Braille, discovering the Federation, and the profound influence of Dr. Kenneth Jernigan on his understanding of blindness and self-respect. Through humor and deeply personal stories, he explores what it truly means to believe that it is respectable to be blind—and how that belief unlocks confidence in using Braille, mobility tools, technology, and advocacy skills without apology. Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/respect-belief-and-action-david-denotaris/id1592248709?i=1000744088201 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/3dHOmknIOgW9R7UEo69EH9 YouTube https://youtu.be/0oawJQcbBkA?si=Y7K-rnaBg6UQx50- White Canes Connect Website https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/148/      My Podcast Gear Here is all my gear and links to it on Amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associates Program and earn a commission on qualifying purchases. Zoom Podtrak P4: https://amzn.to/33Ymjkt Zoom ZDM Mic & Headphone Pack: https://amzn.to/33vLn2s Zoom H1n Recorder: https://amzn.to/3zBxJ9O  Gator Frameworks Desk Mounted Boom Arm: https://amzn.to/3AjJuBK Shure SM58 S Mic: https://amzn.to/3JOzofg  Sony ZV-E10 camera : https://amzn.to/4fFBSxM  GoPro Hero 11 Black: https://amzn.to/3SKI7WX Rode Video Micro (used on GoPro): https://amzn.to/4kVMJWI Sennheiser Headset (1st 162 episodes): https://amzn.to/3fM0Hu0  Follow iCantCU on your favorite podcast directory! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/icantcu-podcast/id1445801370/  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nck2D5HgD9ckSaUQaWwW2  Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/iCantCU-Podcast-Podcast/B08JJM26BT  IHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-icantcu-podcast-31157111/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU   Connect on Social Media Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidbenj Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidbenj Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidbenj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbenj Are You or Do You Know A Blind Boss? If you or someone you know is crushing it in their field and is also blind, I want to hear from you! Call me at (646) 926-6350 and leave a message. Please include your name and town, and tell me who the Blind Boss is and why I need to have them on an upcoming episode. You can also email the show at iCantCUPodcast@gmail.com.

Fear is shaping how our kids grow up, and it may be costing them their confidence, resilience, and hope. In this conversation, I talk with Iuri Milo, a licensed clinical social worker with over 20 years of experience, about what he is seeing firsthand in schools and therapy rooms across the country. We explore the rise in student anxiety and suicide, how fear-based parenting and constant digital input affect young minds, and why building protective factors matters more than chasing risk labels. Iuri shares how School Pulse was created after a wave of student suicides, how proactive text-based support is helping students feel heard before they reach crisis, and why confidence, connection, and mindset are essential for long-term mental health. This episode offers a grounded, hopeful look at how parents, schools, and communities can help young people develop an Unstoppable mindset rooted in courage rather than fear. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear how Iuri's work in therapy led him to focus on helping students and families. 02:22 – Learn how immigrating to the U.S. shaped Iuri's resilience and outlook on life. 03:43 – Discover how missionary service helped Iuri build confidence and maturity. 12:13 – Hear what led to the creation of School Pulse after student suicides in the community. 17:20 – Learn why fear-based parenting may increase anxiety instead of confidence. 34:24 – Discover how proactive text-based support helps students before crisis begins. About the Guest: Iuri Melo is married to Katie, and is the grateful father of 5 incredibly cool children (Aydia, Elle, Jona, Kole, and Leila).  He is an LCSW of 20 years, and the Co-Founder of SchoolPulse.  Iuri is the published author of “Mind Over Grey Matter - Training the Mind to Heal the Brain”, and the best-seller for teens “Know Thy Selfie - Tips, Tricks, and Tools For an Awesome Life.”  He spent his 20 years as an LCSW in private practice, where he won several awards for his work, and developed a unique modality for his work with clients, “Adventure Based Therapy.” In 2017 after a several teen suicides hit his community in Southern Utah, and at the request of a local principal, Iuri Melo Co-created SchoolPulse.  Since then SchoolPulse has become the best student support service in the country, proactively delivering optimism, positivity, growth mindset strategies, and the best positive psychology skills directly to students and parents over text, email, and through schools.  This innovative evidence-based service is not only inspiring teens' lives, but also parents, and faculty.  SchoolPulse's objective is to help students to perform better academically, socially, and personally.  “Everyday at SchoolPulse is a highlight reel of courage, kindness, and growth.  It's amazing to see what a kind, respectful, and gentle interaction can do to heal and inspire our souls.”   With more than 300 schools, in over 25 states, SchoolPulse is a tsunami of goodness that is flooding schools throughout the country.  It sounds a bit fantastic that Iuri's vision of “blessing the human family” is happening over text, but indeed it is.   Iuri's sincere and enthusiastic approach can be seen in his VIDEOS which SchoolPulse delivers to students, parents, and faculty via text and email.  Iuri releases videos every week based on questions that teens have, and provides them with the answers they need to develop an extraordinary and growth minded psychology.    Ways to connect with Devin**:** Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/iuritiagomelo Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iuri-melo-1b41482/ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/iuritmelo/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SchoolPulsePodcast/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=2 Know Thy Selfie - t.ly/juUMB Mind Over Grey Matter - t.ly/SxNUU About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Protecting your ideas can be the difference between building momentum and watching someone else run with your work. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with patent attorney and entrepreneur Devin Miller to explore what founders and business owners really need to know about patents, trademarks, and intellectual property. Devin shares how his background in engineering, startups, and law shaped his approach to innovation, and he breaks down the real differences between provisional and non-provisional patents in clear, practical terms. We talk about common mistakes entrepreneurs make, how legal protection supports growth instead of slowing it down, and why understanding intellectual property early can help you compete with confidence. I believe this conversation will give you clarity, direction, and a stronger foundation for protecting what you work so hard to create. Highlights: 00:01:18 – Hear how growing up in a small town shaped Devin's approach to problem-solving and business.00:12:53 – Learn why Devin combined engineering, business, and law instead of choosing a single career path.00:19:32 – Discover how a student competition turned into a real wearable technology startup.00:30:57 – Understand the clear difference between patents, trademarks, and copyrights.00:33:05 – Learn when a provisional patent makes sense and when it does not.00:53:52 – Discover what practical options exist when competitors copy or knock off your product. About the Guest: Devin Miller is the founder of Miller IP, a firm launched in 2018 that helps startups and small businesses protect their inventions and brands without breaking the bank. He's overseen over a thousand patent and trademark filings with a 95 percent success rate on patents and an 85 percent success rate on trademarks, making sure garage inventors and side hustlers get the same high-quality service as big tech. Before starting his firm, Devin spent years at large law firms working with clients like Intel and Amazon, but he found his true passion in helping scrappy entrepreneurs turn ideas into assets. He blends legal know how with an entrepreneur's mindset, offering flat fee packages, DIY legal tools, and hosting webinars and a podcast series to demystify IP. A lifelong runner who knocks out 10+ miles a day and 30-40 miles daily biking (except Sunday), Devin listens to audiobooks and podcasts while training for marathons. When he's not drafting office action responses or co-hosting Inventive Journey, you might catch him brainstorming the next Inventive Youth program or sipping coffee while sketching partnership agreements. Ways to connect with Devin**:** If you'd like to talk strategy or swap running playlist recs, feel free to schedule a chat at http://strategymeeting.com LinkedIn profile  https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawwithmiller/ Firm website [https://www.lawwithmiller.com](https://www.lawwithmiller.com "https://www.lawwithmiller.com") About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hello to all of you, wherever you happen to be today, you are listening to or watching or both unstoppable mindset and I am your host. Mike hingson, our guest today is Devin Miller, who founded the company, Miller IP, and he'll tell us all about that and what that means and so on as we go through this. But I will tell you that he is a lawyer. He deals with patents and other things and a lot of stuff relating to startups. I think that's going to be a lot of fun to talk about. So without any further ado, as it were, Devin, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thanks for having me on. Excited to be here. Well, we're glad. We're glad you're here. Can you hear me? Okay, now I hear you. Devin Miller  02:06 Well, we're sorry for the delay, but I said I'm excited to be here and looking forward to chatting. Michael Hingson  02:11 Well, perfect. Well, let's start. I love to always do this. Let's start kind of at the beginning. Why don't you tell us about the early Devon, growing up and all that? Devin Miller  02:21 You know, I I'm happy to do. I don't know there's anything that probably stands out. I was probably fairly typical. So I was raised in a religious family, so we're attended church regularly every week. And I had a couple sisters, an older and a younger one, and was went through, went through schooling and or studied, probably the typical course. So I don't know there's anything stands out. I was in a small town, so grew up as, probably not as small as I'd like it to be anymore, but a small farming town, and it was, it was kind of always enjoyed the small town fill, and actually am back to being in that same hometown where I live now with my family. But yeah, so I did that, and I did probably the at the time, the typical thing with the it's growing up with kids and sports and doing things, and went through high school and and after that, jumped or went off to college. But I don't know if there's anything in particular that stands out in my mind, other than probably, at least in my mind, a pretty typical childhood and upbringing, but enjoyed it nonetheless. But happy to provide any details or I can jump into a bit about college. Michael Hingson  03:38 Well, where did you go to college? Devin Miller  03:40 Yeah, so I went to Brigham, young university, just or BYU, just out here in Utah. So I went off to so, or I graduated high school and I went off to a year of college. So I went off to BYU, kind of intending to go into electrical engineering, which is what I or one of the degrees I ended up studying with, and then I did that for a year, and after which I went off and did a served a religious mission for my church, so Church of Jesus Christ, or Latter Day Saints, otherwise nicknamed Mormon. So I went off and went to Taiwan for about two years. So didn't have any idea, even at that point where Taiwan was and certainly didn't know the language, but when studied that, or they have a training center where you get an opportunity to study it for about three months. So I studied it and then went off to Taiwan and served that religious mission for my church for a couple years before coming back to the high school, or good, not the high school to college to continue my studies. Michael Hingson  04:43 I several, several comments. One, I know what you mean about small hometowns. We moved from Chicago, where I was born, to California when I was five, we moved to a town called Palmdale, and it was a very small rural town about 60. Five miles north of Los Angeles. I don't know what the population was when we first moved there, but it couldn't have been more than 1000 or 1500 people spread out over a little bit of a distance. For me, it was great, because without there being a lot of traffic, I was able to do things I might not have done nearly as well in Chicago things like riding a bike, learning to ride a bike and walking to school and and not ever fearing about walking to school for any reasons, including being blind. But oftentimes I once I learned how to do it, I rode my own bike to school and locked it in the bike rack and then rode home and all that. But then Palmdale started to grow and I'm not quite sure what the population is today, but I live in a town about 55 miles east of Palmdale called Victorville, and as I described Victorville growing up, it was not even a speck on a radar scope compared to the small town of Palmdale, but we we moved down to Southern California from the Bay Area my wife and I to be closer to family and so on. In 2014 we wanted to build a house for Karen, because she was in a wheelchair her whole life. So we wanted to get a a house that would be accessible. And my gosh, the only place we could find any property was Victorville. And at that time, in 2014 it had 115,000 people in it. It has grown. Now it Devin Miller  06:31 has grown. And it tends to be that, you know, it feels like everybody's always kind of chasing the small town then, or people find out about it. Everybody moves in. It's no longer a small town, and then you're off to chasing the the next small town, wherever that might be. So it's kind of a perpetual cycle of of chasing that small or at least for the people to like it. Not everybody loves it, but I'm certainly a proponent of chasing that small town feel from from place to places, as you're trying to or trying to find or recreate what you probably grew up with. So it is a it is a cycle that everybody I think is chasing, Michael Hingson  07:09 yeah, well, for me now, my wife passed away in 2022 we were married 40 years. And so the thing about it is that there are probably advantages for me living alone, being in a place that has a few more people and a few more of the kind of amenities that at least somewhat larger towns have, like a Costco and some some restaurants. We actually live in a homeowner's development, a homeowner's association called Spring Valley Lake, and I live within walking distance of the Country Club, which has a nice restaurant, so I'm able to go to the to the restaurant whenever I choose, and that's kind of nice. So there's value for me and being here and people say, Well, do you ever want to move from Victorville now that your wife died? And why do I want to do that? Especially since I have a 3.95% mortgage? You know, I'm not going to do that, and I'm in a new house that. Well, relatively new. It was built in 2016 so it's pretty much built to code. And insulation is great. Solar is great on the house. Air conditioning works, so I can't complain. Devin Miller  08:20 No, sounds like a good setup, and it's kind of one where, why, if you enjoy where you're at, why would you move to go somewhere else that you wouldn't necessarily enjoy? So it just sounds like it works out. Michael Hingson  08:29 Well, it does, and I can always, as I need to being a keynote speaker and traveling, there's a shuttle that'll take me down to the nearest airports. So that works out. Well, that's awesome. So you went to, I'm a little bit familiar with the the whole LDS missionary program, Mission program, we we were not part of the church, but we lived, when my wife and I got married, we lived in Mission Viejo and we had neighbors right next door to us, who were members of the church, and they came over one day and they said, we have an issue. And I said, Okay. And my wife said, Okay, what's the issue? Well, we have a couple of missionaries coming in, and the only homes that are available to these two boys are homes that already have young female girls in them. So they really can't be in those homes. Would you be willing to rent your one of your rooms to missionaries? And so we said, and well, Karen said, because she was a member of the Methodist church, we said, as long as they don't try to mormonize us, we won't try to methodize them. And we would love to do it. And it worked out really well. We had a couple of missionaries for a while, and then they switched out. And eventually we had a gentleman from Tonga for a while, and we actually had a couple girls for for a while. So it worked out really well, and we we got to know them all, and it was a great relationship. And they did their work, and at Christmas time, they certainly were invited to our Christmas parties. We. Had every year a party. What we actually had was what we call a Christmas tree upping. We got the tree, we brought it into the house, and we invited all of our friends and neighbors to come and decorate the tree in the house. Because, needless to say, we weren't going to do that very well. Karen especially wasn't going to be able to stand up and decorate the tree. So we got them to do all the tree decorations and all that, and we fed them. So it worked out. Devin Miller  10:26 Well, it's awesome. Sounds like, great. And you hit on. I said, that's probably my, my favorite part of the Christmas is a Christmas tree. So growing up, we always had a real live tree, but it was always, you know, it was downstairs in the basement, and had lower ceilings. And so I was always kind of the opinion, hey, when I grow up, I want to have the a huge, you know, kind of like in the newbies at 20 plus or 20 or 20 plus foot tree, yeah. And lo and behold, we, or at least the couple houses that we build have always had, at least in the living space, have had the pretty high ceilings. And so that's always what we do. We'll go out and we'll cut down a live tree. So we'll go out to kind of in nature, to the forest, where they let you cut them down, and we'll, we'll cut down, usually it's around a 20 plus foot tree, and then have it strung up in the house. And I always tell my wife, I said, I'd rather that one could be my Christmas present. I'd be just as happy, because as long as I have my tree, it's a good Christmas for me. Michael Hingson  11:23 Yeah, oh, I hear you. Well, one of the boys who lived next door to us went off on a mission to, I think it was Argentina, and was gone for, I guess, two years. What was really funny is when he came back, it took him a while to re acclimatize his speaking English and getting back his American accent. He was he definitely had much more of a Spanish accent, and was much more used to speaking Spanish for a while. So the the three month exposure period certainly got him started at the at the center there in Utah. And then he went off and did his missionary work and then came home. But, you know, it's, it's got to be a wonderful and a very valuable experience. How do you think it affected you? Devin Miller  12:10 Yeah, I think I said, I think it would be, you said it probably well, is it like one where to say, Hey, this is the most fun time in your life, and you'll never have a more fun time. I don't know that. It's kind of like, you know, I liken it to I so I like to do a lot of running, so or in older years. I don't know that I was as much in younger years, but kind of discovered not that I love running, per se, but love to get out and decompress and otherwise, kind of have a time where I don't have a lot of intrusions or other things that are pressing in on life. And so with that, you know, I've done a number of marathons and marathons, you know, everybody again, says, Well, did you have fun? Or was it a good or was it good marathon? So I don't know that it's ever fun. I don't and do it, but it's a good accomplishment. You it's, you go out, you set your mind to something, and then otherwise, at the end of the day, you reach your goal. And, you know, kind of has the that sense of accomplishment and learning and become improving yourself. That's probably a lot of how I like in a mission is, you know, you have a lot of stresses of learning a new language, being in a different culture, doing something that you're unfamiliar with or not accustomed to, and at the end, you know, you learn a lot of things, you are gain a lot of skills. You hopefully impact a lot of people's lives for the better. And so it is definitely one of those where it's a great accomplishment, but it's not, you know, it's not one way to say, hey, this was a fun vacation where I got to go play for two years. So it it works out well, and I would absolutely do it again. Michael Hingson  13:31 Yeah, I'm sure you learned a lot, and you probably learned a whole lot more in a lot of ways, than most of the people that you you visited with because you treated it as an adventure and an adventure to learn. So that's pretty cool, absolutely. So you came back from that and you went back to college, and did you continue in electrical engineering? Or what Devin Miller  13:56 did you do? Yes and no. So I did continue in electrical engineering. Or so I came back and, you know, the intent was, and what I continue to do is to study electrical engineering. I did add on a second degree, which I was a Mandarin Chinese and so I can't remember, I mentioned I I served in Taiwan for those couple years and had an opportunity to kind of, you know, learn and study the language. So as I was doing that, I kind of came back and said, Well, if I've already put in the effort to learn the language and to study it, I might as well, you know, utilize it, or add it to the degree. And so I I really started, or I added that as a second degree to the first degree. So I came out with both the degree in Chinese or man or Chinese, as well as electrical engineering. So yes, continue to study that. And then from that, you know, kind of just as a part of that story. So I was coming out, kind of getting, you know, the senior year, kind of getting towards the end of that degree, and looked at and said, you know, what do I want to do when I grow up? And I still know if I know the full answer, but I did look at it and say, Hey, I, you know, I don't know exactly what I want to do when I grow up, but I don't, I like engineering. Engineering, but I don't want to be an engineer in the sense that, you know, not that I didn't like engineering, but it was one where a typical electrical engineers, you come out of graduate school, you go work for a big company. You're a very small cog and a very big Will you work for. You know, 1015, years, you gain enough experience to have any say your direction and what projects you work on or really have any impact. Not saying that's not really what I want to do when I grow up, or when I start into the working world. And so kind of with that, I, you know, I had a couple interests I enjoyed, you know, kind of the startup, small business, kind of that type of world. And I also found it interesting to on the legal aspect of intellectual property, so patents, trademarks, and really more. At the idea of, hey, you're going to work with a lot of cooling or cool inventions, cool people are working on a lot of unique things, and you get a lot more variety. And you get, you know, kind of be more impactful. And so that was kind of the the Crossroads I found myself at saying which, you know, kind of which direction I want to go. And, you know, kind of, rather than take one or the other, I kind of, I split the road and decided I was going to do both. So I went off to graduate school and did both an MBA or a master's in business administration as well as a law degree, kind of focused more on intellectual property. So went off and studied both of those kind of with the intent of, you know, I don't want to just be fit into one box or do just one thing, but I'd like to keep a foot in the business world, startup world, and have an opportunity to pursue my own business as well as doing the law degree. So I did that in a Case Western Reserve out in Cleveland, Ohio, studying both of those degrees Michael Hingson  16:34 when you were getting your degree in manner, in Chinese. Was that all about speaking the language, or was it also involved in history and civilization and understanding more about China? What was it like? Devin Miller  16:47 It was really more, certainly, there was a or, I guess, are you saying within college or within the mission itself? 16:54 In college? Okay, yeah. I mean, it was, Devin Miller  16:57 it was still primarily focused on the language. You know, the nice thing is, you can test out of a number of the, you know, entry level or their beginning classes, as long as you can show a proficiency. So there may have been some of that, and you still got, you know, some of the classes, would you still study a little bit of poetry, or, you know, within the language context, they've used poetry as a way to kind of learn different aspects of the language. You'd get a little bit of history, but pretty, or vast majority of focus was kind of both speaking as well as the the written and, you know, those are really as opposed to, like English speaking, where it's phonetics and you can or sound out and kind of understand what a you know, what something means by sounding it out, you don't have to know the word in order To, you know, to pronounce it. Chinese is not that way. So you have characters that are just every character you have to memorize. There is no phonetics. There's no way that you can look at a character and sound it out. And so there's a large amount of just memorizing, memorizing, you know, 20,000 characters to read a newspaper type of a thing. And then on the flip side is you have to learn the language, which is, you know, which are already focused on that, more on the mission, but you have to do pronunciation, so you can say the same word with different tones and it has entirely different meaning. So really, there was enough there on the language side, they tended to primarily focus on that, just because there was quite a bit there to Michael Hingson  18:19 dive into. It's a complicated language. Devin Miller  18:23 It it is certainly or uniquely different from English. I would say probably English to Chinese speakers is the hardest language because it's the most different from their language. And vice versa for English speaking Chinese is at least one of the this or harder languages because it is entirely different. So it is one that has a lot of intricacies that you get to learn. Michael Hingson  18:45 I took German in high school for three years, and then in college, I did a lot of shortwave listening and encountered radio Japan a bunch. So I actually took a year of Japanese, and I think from a written language, it's a lot more complicated than spoken language. I think it's a lot more straightforward than Chinese and a lot of ways easier to learn. But even so, it is different than than Latin languages by any standard. Devin Miller  19:16 But it is. It's an animal in and of itself, but it makes it fun. Michael Hingson  19:21 Yeah, that's right, it does make it fun. Incident. And then, as I said, it was an adventure. And all of that was, was an adventure. My master's is in physics. That was an adventure. And until you spend a lot of time dealing with physics and hopefully getting beyond just doing the math, you learn how much of a philosophical bent and how much about society and the way things work really is wrapped up in physics. So again, it's it's kind of fun, and unlike a lot of physicists or engineers. I've never thought that one is better or worse than the other. I think they both have purposes. And so as a physics person, I never pick on engineers. Devin Miller  20:11 I am, I wouldn't pick up. I wouldn't pick on any physics or physicists or physics majors, either, because that's equally, if not more difficult. And so there's a lot of learning that goes on and involved with all of them. But they're all of them are fun areas to Michael Hingson  20:26 study with. They are. So once you you got your master's degrees, and you you got your law degree, what did you go off and do? Devin Miller  20:36 Yeah, so I mean, I would probably back it up just a little bit. So kind of during that period where I was getting the degrees, couple things happened. Had a couple kids. So started out first kid while I was doing the, I guess the second year where I was in under or doing the law and MBA degree, doing it as a joint degree. And so had the had a kid. And then during that same period, the next year, about a year about a year and a half later, had another kid. And so that puts me as a it's a four year program, if you combine both of them together. And so I was in the kind of the third year, the four year program. And while I was doing those studies, you know, I had a I was doing a couple things. One is, I was doing the both, or studying both majors, raising the family. I was working about 20 hours as a law clerk or for a law firm, and then during that, I can't remember or if it was a flyer, or if it was, you know, an email or whatnot, but came across a business competition, or it's kind of a, it was kind of a, a multi disciplinary competition wherever, you know, people of different degrees and different fields of study would get together, you form a group of four or five, and you work on developing an idea, and then you would enter it into the competition and see how it goes. And so we did that the first year, and we did something, an idea to make Gym Bags less smelly, and then enter that in and took second place. And during that period, next year comes along, we're all in our final year of our degree. And as we're doing that, we are studying the degree and or entering the competition again. And we decided to do something different. It was for wearables. You know, this is before Apple Watch, or, you know, the Fitbit, or anything else. It was well before I knew that, but we just said, Hey, when I was there, thinking, hey, wouldn't it be cool I'd ran my or, I think, my second marathon that time. Wouldn't it be awesome if you could monitor your hydration level so that you can make sure you're staying well hydrated throughout and it helps with the air, not being a sore and being, you know, quicker recovery and performing better. And so out of that, took the genesis of that idea, entered it back into the business comp, or that is a new idea, into the business competition, and did that with the partners, and took second place again, still a little bitter, or bitter that about that, because the people that took first place has entered the same thing that they entered the previous year, but polished, or took the money they've earned previously and polished it made it look a little nicer, and won again because it looked the most polished. But that aside, was a great, or great competition. Enjoyed it. And from that, you know, said, Hey, I think this is a good idea. I think it can be a, you know, something that you could actually build a business around. And so said, Hey, or kind of told the the people that were in the the group with me, you know, we're all graduating. We're going different directions. Would be pretty hard to do a startup altogether. So why don't we do this? Or why don't you guys take all the money that I got, you know that we you're in some reward money, or, you know, prize money. If you take my portion, split it amongst yourselves, and I'll just take ownership of the idea, whatever it is, where, you know, wherever I take it, and simply own it outright, you know, basically buying them out. And so that's what I did. So coming out of, you know, getting the MBA in the law degree, that was kind of always the intent. So, or coming out of school, I went and joined a law firm here in Utah. Was a full time patent attorney, and then alongside, you know, had the side hustle, what I'd really say is kind of a second full time job to where I was, you know, pursuing that startup or small business alongside of doing the law firm. So that was kind of the the genesis for, as I graduated full time attorney working, you know, with a lot of our cool clients and other things, and then also incorporating the desire to do a startup or small business. And that's kind of been, really, the trajectory that I've taken throughout my career is really, you know, finding ways to combine or to pursue both interests together. Michael Hingson  24:26 What happened to the business? Devin Miller  24:28 Yeah, so it so it's still alive today. I've been, I exited. Now it's been a couple year and a half, two years somewhere in there. Have to think back. So it started out. So with the business I started out, it was actually one where, rewinding just a little bit when we when I got started, my dad was also an electrical engineer. He'd actually, you know, he's well or farther into his career, and he done a number of different things across their medical devices through his career. And so he kind of, or he joined on as kind of doing it with us. Hustle with me, and we took that, started to build it. We brought on some additional team members. We brought on an investor, and actually built out and grew the business. It also evolved. So we were starting to test or test out the technology have it with some colleges and some other, you know, athletes, which was a natural place to start it at and about that time, and we were getting kind of to that next hurdle where we either needed to get a further investment or cash infusion, you know, to kind of take it to a more of a marketable, you know, a except a Polish full or ready to go to market type of product. And at that time, as we're exploring that we had or came or got connected with somebody that was more in the diabetes monitoring, they were doing it more from a service base. But you know, the overlay as to kind of how the technologies are overlapped with what they're doing tended to work out pretty well. And so we ended up combining the business to be one, where it was redirected a lot of the technology we developed underlining to be more of a wearables for the diabetes monitor. So that was a number of years ago. I stayed on doing a lot of, some of the engineering and development, primarily more in the intellectual property realm, of doing a lot of patents and whatnot. And then about a year and a half, two years ago, got bought out, was exited from that company and and that continues on today. It's still alive and growing, and I kind of watch it from, you know, from a distance, so to speak, or kind of continue to maintain interest, but don't are not necessarily active within the business anymore. So that was kind of a long answer to a shorter question, but that's kind of where the business eventually evolved to. Michael Hingson  26:36 So now I'm sure that the company is doing things like developing or working with products like continuous glucose monitors and so on. Devin Miller  26:46 Yep, yeah, that's kind of the direction as to what they're headed you Michael Hingson  26:49 well, and what's what's been interesting about several of the CGM type devices is that for people who are blind, there's been a real push to try to get some of them to be accessible. And what finally occurred about a year ago, maybe two years ago, is that one of the devices that's out there was approved to actually incorporate an app on a smartphone, and when the app came out, then it was really easy, although it took an effort to convince people to pay attention to it and do it, but it became technically a lot easier to deal with access, because all you had to do was to make the app accessible. And so there now is a continuous glucose monitor that that is accessible, whereas you wherein you get all the information from the app through voiceover, for example, on the iPhone or through talkback on a android phone that you get when you're just looking at the screen, which is the way it really should be anyway, because If you're going to do it, you should be inclusive and make it work for everyone. Devin Miller  28:06 No, that's cool. Yeah, there's a number of I think, between, you know, being a prevalent, you know, issue that people are dealing with, to, you know, different trying to address things earlier on, and also to motivate people do healthier lifestyle. And kind of the direction I think, is headed where a lot of the the company that's continues on today, from our original technology, is on the non invasive side. So a lot of them have, you have to have a patch, or you have to have periodically prick, or put an arm, you know, arm, right? Something where has a needle in the arm. And this one is kind of trying hair working to take it to that next level, to where it's no longer having to be invasive, and it's really all without having air with sensors that don't require you to have any sort of pain or prick in order to be able to utilize it. So kind of fun to fun to see how the industry continues to evolve. Michael Hingson  28:55 Well, today, we're working on that, and tomorrow, of course, the tricorder. So you know, we'll, we'll get to Star Trek 29:03 absolutely one step at a time. Michael Hingson  29:05 Yeah, but I've kind of figured that people were certainly working on non invasive technology so that you didn't have to have the sensor stuck in your arm. And I'm not surprised that that that's coming, and we'll be around before too long, just because we're learning so much about other ways of making the measurements that it makes sense to be able to do that. Devin Miller  29:31 Yep, no, absolutely. You know, it is a hard nut to crack. The body is very complex. A lot of things going on, and to measure it, not invasively, is certainly a lot that goes into it, but I think there's a lot of good, good technologies coming out. A lot of progress is being made, and certainly fun to continue to see how the health devices continue to hit the market. So certainly a cool area. Michael Hingson  29:53 So why did you decide, or maybe it was a natural progression, but why did you decide to go into patent law? Yeah. Devin Miller  30:01 I mean, I think it was probably a natural progression, and in the sense that, you know, it is one where overall desire was, Hey, I like engineering from the sense I like to think or how things work and kind of break things down and to have a better understanding. So really, intellectual property law and patents and trademarks and others allowed me to work with a lot of startups and small businesses, see a lot of cool things that they're developing still play a hand in it, and yet, also not, you know, be mired down to a long project over multiple years where you, you know, you're a small cog in a big wheel. And so, yeah, that was kind of one where it fit well within kind of the overall business, you know, business desire and business aspect of what I wanted to accomplish, and also just overall, you know, enjoying it or enjoying it. So that's kind of where it might, you know, it married well with the the desire to do startups and small businesses, as well as to work with a lot of other startups and small businesses. Michael Hingson  30:55 That's a lot of fun, to be able to deal with startups and see a lot of new and innovative kinds of things. And being in patent law, you probably see more than a lot of people, which does get to be exciting in an adventure, especially when you see something that looks like it has so much potential. Yep. Devin Miller  31:14 No, it is. It is fun. I get to see everything from I've worked on everything from boat anchors to credit card thing or devices that help elderly people to remove them more easily, from their wallet to AI to drones to software other or software platforms to medical devices. So it gives a ability to have a pretty good wide exposure to a lot of cool, different, you know, very different types of innovations, and that makes her just, you know, a fun, fun time, and be able to work or work with the air businesses as they develop. Are all those different technologies? Michael Hingson  31:50 Well, on the the law side of things, what's the difference between a provisional patent and a non provisional filing? Devin Miller  31:57 Yeah, so, so I don't back it up, and I'll get to your question. But maybe I'd set the stages to when you're looking at what is the difference between a patent and trademark and copyright, because a lot of times when people look at that, that's probably a good question too. Provisional trademark, or I want a, you know, or a non provisional copyright, or whatever it might be, and kind of get the terminology mixed up. So if you're to take it one step back, a provisional patent app or a patent is something that goes towards protecting an invention. So something that has the functionality that does something, that accomplishes something, a trademark is going to be something that is protecting of a brand. So name of a company, name of a product, a cash, phrase, a logo, and those type of things all really fall under trademarks and copyrights are going to be something that's more creative in nature. So a painting, a sculpture, a picture, a book, you know, all those type of things are going to fall under copyrights. And so really, when you're looking at it, you know, kind of breaking it down initially, you look at it as you know, which one is it. And so now to your question, Michael Hingson  32:58 well, before you go there, before you go ahead, before you go there. So if I'm writing software, does that fall under patent or copyright? I would assume if the software is to do something, it would be a patent. Devin Miller  33:12 So software primarily is under a patent. So there's, technically, you can copyright software. Now there's, it's pretty limited in its scope of protection. So if you're to do or software and do it under a copyright, really, all it protects is the exact way that you wrote the code. So you know, got it using this exact coding language. If somebody come along, copy and paste my code, you'll be protected. But it doesn't protect the functionality of how this code works or what it does. It is purely just how you wrote the code. So most of the time, when you're looking at software, it's really going to be more under a patent, because you're not going to want to just simply protect the identical way that you wrote the code, but rather what it does and what it does, yeah. So yep. So yeah, you for if you're to do as as your example, software, primarily, you're going to it's going to fall under patents. Michael Hingson  34:01 Okay, so anyway, back to provisional and non provisional. Devin Miller  34:05 Yeah, so, and when you're looking at doing a patent, you can do there's a couple different types of patents. One is a design patent. It really just goes to something the esthetic nature, the look and feel of a of an invention. So if you're thinking of the iPhone, you know, used to have the curved edges. I had the circle or a button at the bottom. It had, you know, the speaker placement and all those things. And it was just that outward appearance, not the functionality, could go under a design patent, but what the primary patent, which is what most people pursue, is what's called the utility patent application. And the utility patent application is really going towards the functionality of how something works. So the utility, how it works, what it does, and then kind of the purpose of it. And so with that, when you're looking at pursuing a utility patent application, there are a couple different types of patents that you can or types of utility patent patent applications. So. As you mentioned, one is called a provisional patent application. The other one is called a non provisional patent application. So a provisional patent application is kind of set up primarily, a lot of times for startups or small businesses where they're going to have a some product or an innovation that they're working on. They're in earlier stages. They're wanting to kind of protect what they have while they continue to develop it, and kind of flush it out. So provisional patent application is set up to be a one year placeholder application. So it will get, you know, you file it, you'll get patent pending, you'll get a date of invention, and it'll give you a year to decide if you want to pursue a full patent application or not. So you can file that gives you that one year time frame as a placeholder. The non provisional patent application would be the full patent application. So that would be what has, all the functionality, all the features, all the air, formalities and air, and it will go through the examination process. We'll go look at it for patentability. So those are kind of the difference provisional, one year, placeholder, less expensive, get your patent pending, versus the non provisional, that's the full patent application and gives you kind of that, or we'll go through examination. Michael Hingson  36:12 Do most people go through the provisional process just because it not only is less expensive, but at least it puts a hold and gives you a place. Devin Miller  36:22 It really just depends on where people are at. So kind of, you know, a lot of times people ask, Hey, well, what would you recommend? And I'll usually say, hey, there are typically two reasons why I would do a provisional patent application. And if you don't fall into either of those camps, then I would probably do a non provisional patent. Got it. So generally, the two reasons I get one is certainly budgetary. Give you an example. So our flat fee, you know, we do our primarily everything, flat fee in my firm, and a provisional patent application to prepare and file it, our flat fee is 2500 versus a non provisional patent application is 6950 so one is, Hey, your startup, small business, to have a limited funds, you're wanting to get a level of protection in place while you continue to pursue or develop things, then you would oftentimes do that as a provisional patent application. And the other reason, a lot of times where I would recommend it is, if you're saying, Hey, we've got a initial innovation, we think it's going to be great. We're still figuring things out, so we'd like to get something in place while we continue to do that research and develop it and kind of further figure it out. So that would be kind of, if you fall into one of those camps where it's either budgetary overlay, or it's one where you're wanting to get something in place and then take the next year to further develop it, then a provisional patent application is oftentimes a good route. There are also a lot of clients say, Hey, I'm, you know, we are pretty well. Did the Research Development getting ready to release it in the marketplace. While we don't have unlimited funds, we still have the ability to just simply go or go straight to a non provisional so we can get the examination process started, and then they'll go that route. So both of them are viable route. It's not kind of necessarily. One is inherently better or worse than the other is kind of more where you're at along the process and what, what kind of fits your needs the best. Michael Hingson  38:09 But at least there is a process that gives you options, and that's always good. Absolutely, patent laws, I well, I won't say it's straightforward, but given you know, in in our country today, we've got so many different kinds of things going on in the courts and all that, and sometimes one can only shake one's head at some of the decisions that are made regarding politics and all that, but that just seems to be a whole lot more complicated and a lot less straightforward than what you do With patent law? Is that really true? Or are there lots of curves that people bend things to go all sorts of different ways that make life difficult for you? Devin Miller  38:50 Um, probably a little bit of both. I think that it so. The law, legal system in general, is a much more slower moving enemy, so it does have a bit more of a kind of a basis to anticipate where things are headed in general. Now, the exception is, there always is an exception to the rule. Is that anytime the Supreme Court gets involved with patent law cases, I'd say 95% of the time, they make it worse rather than better. So, you know, you get judges that none of them are really have an experience or background in patent law. They've never done it. They really don't have too much familiarity with it, and now they're getting posed questions that are fairly involved in intricate and most of the time when they make decisions, they make it worse. It's less clear. You know, it's not as great of understanding, and it otherwise complicates things more. And so when you get the Supreme Court involved, then they can kind of make it more difficult or kind of shake things up. But by and large, it is a not that there isn't a lot of or involved in going through the process to convince the patent and examiner the patent office of patentability and make sure it's well drafted and has the it's good of coverage and scope, but at least there is, to a degree, that ability to anticipate. Hate, you know what it what's going to be required, or what you may likely to be looking at. You know? The other exception is, is, you know, the, ironically, I think the patent office is the only budget or producing or budget positive entity within all of the government. So every other part of the government spends much more money than they ever make. The Patent Office is, I think the, I think the postal office at one point was the other one, and they have, now are always in the in the red, and never make any money. But, you know, they are the patent office. Now, the problem with that is, you think, great, well now they can reinvest. They can approve, they should have the best technology, they should be the most up to date. They should have, you know, all the resources because they're self funding, and yet, there's always a piggy bank that the government goes to raid and redirects all those funds to other pet projects. And so, or the patent office is always, perpetually underfunded, as ironic as that is, because they're getting, always getting the piggy bank rated, and so with that, you know, they are, if you're to go into a lot of the patent office, their interfaces, their websites or databases, their systems, it feels like you're the onset of the or late 90s, early 2000s as far as everything goes. And so that always is not necessarily your question, but it's always a bit aggravating that you know you can't, as an example, can't submit color drawings. People ask, can you submit videos? Nope, you can't submit any videos of your invention, you know, can you provide, you know, other types of information? Nope, it's really just a written document, and it is line drawings that are black and white, and you can't submit anything beyond that. So there's one where I think eventually it will sometime, maybe shift or change, but it's going to be not anytime soon. I don't think there's any time on the horizon, because they're kind of stuck it once they move, moved over to the lit or initially onto the computer system, that's about where that evolution stopped. Michael Hingson  41:51 Well, the other thing though, with with videos, especially when you get AI involved and so on, are you really seeing a video of the invention. Or are you seeing something that somebody created that looks great, but the invention may not really do it. So I can understand their arguments, but there have to be ways to deal with that stuff. Devin Miller  42:13 Yeah, and I think that even be prior to AI, even we just had, you know, videos been around for 20 or 30 years, even, you know, digital format or longer. That probably, and the problem is, I think it's more of the search ability. So if you have a drawing, you can more easily search drawings and compare them side by side, and they'll do it. If you have a video, you know what? What format is the video? And is it a, you know, dot movie, or dot MOV, or is it.mp for is it color? Is it black and white? How do you capture it? Is it zoomed in as a kind of show all the details? Or is it zoomed out? And I think that there's enough difficulty in comparing video side by side and having a rigid enough or standardized format, the patent office said, man, we're not going to worry about it. Yes, so we could probably figure something out, but that's more work than anybody, any administration or any of the directors of the patent office ever want to tackle so it's just always kind of kicked down the road. Michael Hingson  43:06 Do they ever actually want to see the invention itself? Devin Miller  43:12 Not really, I mean, you so the short answer is no. I mean, they want to see the invention as it's captured within the the patent application. So the problem Michael Hingson  43:21 is, the drawing, they don't want to see the actual device, or whatever it is, well, and a lot Devin Miller  43:24 of times, you know as a inventors, they you know as a patent applicants, as the inventors and the owners, you're saying, hey, but I want to show them the invention. Problem is, the invention doesn't always mirror exactly what's showing in the patent application. Because you're on generation three of your product patent application is still in generation one, yeah, and so it doesn't mirror, and so the examiners are supposed to, they don't always, or aren't always good, and sometimes pull things and they shouldn't, but they're supposed to just consider whatever is conveyed in the patent application. Yeah, it's a closed world. And so bringing those additional things in now you can, so technically, you can request a live in office interview with the examiner, where you sit down live. You can bring in your invention or other or details and information, and when you do it live, face to face with an interview, you can walk them through it. Most very few people attorneys ever do that because one clients aren't going to want to pay for you to one of the offices, put you up in a hotel, you know, sit there, spend a day or two to or with the examiner to walk them through it. It just adds a significant amount of expense. Examiners don't particularly like it, because they have to dedicate significantly more time to doing that. Yeah, they're allotted, so they lose they basically are doing a lot of free work, and then you're pulling in a lot of information that they really can't consider. So you technically can. But I would say that you know, the likelihood of the majority of attorneys, 99 point whatever, percent don't do that, including myself. I've never been to do a live or live one, just because it just doesn't, it doesn't have enough advantage to make it worthwhile. Michael Hingson  44:58 Well, in talking about. About the law and all the things that go on with it. One of the things that comes to mind is, let's say you have somebody in the United States who's patenting, or has made a patent. What happens when it all goes to it gets so popular, or whatever, that now it becomes an international type of thing. You've got, I'm sure, all sorts of laws regarding intellectual property and patents and so on internationally. And how do you get protection internationally for a product? Devin Miller  45:32 File it in each country separately. So, you know, there are people, and I understand the inclinations, hey, I want to get a worldwide or global patent that covers everything in every country. The short answer is, you can't. I mean, technically, you could, if you file a patent into every country separately, nobody, including when I used to work or do work for companies including Intel and Amazon and Red Hat and Ford. They don't have patents in every single country throughout the world because they just don't have enough marketplace. You know, you go to a very small, let's say, South African country that you know, where they just don't sell their product enough in it, it just doesn't make the sense, or the courts or the systems or the patent office isn't well enough to find, or it's not enforceable enough that it just doesn't capture that value. And so there isn't a ability to have a global, worldwide patent, and it really is one where you have to file into each country separately. They each have their own somewhat similar criteria, still a different, somewhat similar process, but they each have their own criteria in their process that has to go through examination. So when you're looking at you know when you want to go for whether it's in the US or any other country, when you're deciding where you want to file it, it's really a matter of what marketplaces you're going to be selling the product into. So if you look at it and you know, I have as an example, some clients that 95% of their marketplace is all in the US, that's where they anticipate, that's probably where they're going to sell it. Well, yes, you could go and find, if you have 2% of your marketplace in Japan, you could go file a patent and get it into Japan, but you have such a small amount of your marketplace that's probably there that it doesn't make sense. And vice versa will have as an example. And a lot of times in the medical devices, they'll a lot of times file both in the EU as well as in the US, because those are two of the predominant medical device and are places where a lot of innovation is going on, where there's a lot of focus on utilization, development, medical devices, and there's just a lot of that demand. And so you're really going to look at it is which, where's your marketplace. The other times are the people, a lot of times, they'll get tripped up on so they'll say, Well, I probably need to file into China, right? And I said, Well, maybe because the inclination is, well, everybody just goes to China. They'll knock off the product. And so I want to have a patent in China so that I can, you know, fight against the knockoffs. And that isn't while I again, understand why they would ask that question. It wouldn't be the right way to convey it. Because if you if all it is is they you have no real, you know, no desire, no plan, to go into China. You're not going to sell it. You're not going to build a business there. If they're knocking it off and just just doing it in China, so to speak, then they're not. There isn't going to be a need to file a patent in China, because you don't have any marketplace in there. There's nothing really to protect. And if somebody makes it in China as a just picking on China, making as an example, and imports it into the US, you can still enforce your patent or otherwise do or utilize it to stop people from importing knock off because it's in the US, because they're, yeah, exactly, they're selling it, importing it, or otherwise doing activities in the US. So it's really a matter of where your marketplace is, not where you think that somebody might knock it off. Or, Hey, I'm gonna get a try and get a global patent, even though my marketplace is really in one or two spots. Michael Hingson  48:38 What about products like, say, the iPhone, which are commonly used all over. Devin Miller  48:44 Yeah, they're going to do, they'll do a lot of countries. They still Michael Hingson  48:47 won't do. They'll still do kind of country by country. Devin Miller  48:50 Yeah, they'll now, they'll do a lot of countries. Don't get me wrong, a lot of right. Phones are sold throughout the world, but they'll still look at it as to where it is, and they still have, you know, issues with them. So one of the interesting tidbits as an example, so going back and rewinding your time, taking apple as an example. You know, they came out with, originally, the iPod, then they had iPhone, and then they had the iPad. Now the question is, when they originally came out with their watch, what did they call it? 49:17 Apple Watch? Apple Watch. Now, why Devin Miller  49:20 didn't they call the I wash, which is what it made sense. It goes right along with the iPhone, the iPad, the iPhone, you know, the all of those iPod on that. And it was because somebody had already got a trademark in China that was for a different company, unrelated to the apple that had it for the iWatch. And so when Apple tried to go into the country, they tried to negotiate. They tried to bully. They weren't able to successfully get the rights or to be able to use I wash within China. China was a big enough market, and so they had and rather than try and split it and call it the I wash everywhere but China and trying to have the Apple Watch in China, they opted to call it the Apple Watch. Now I think they might. Of eventually resolve that, and I think it's now can be referred to as the I watch, I'm not sure, but for, at least for a long period of time, they couldn't. They called it the Apple Watch when they released it, for that reason. So even if you have, you know, a big company and one of the biggest ones in the world, you still have to play by the same rules. And why, you can try and leverage your your size and your wealth and that to get your way, there's still those, there's still those hindrances. So that's kind of maybe a side, a side note, but it's kind of one that's interesting. Michael Hingson  50:30 So that's the trademark of how you name it. But how about the technology itself? When the Apple Watch was created, I'm assuming that they were able to patent that. Devin Miller  50:39 Yeah, they will have, I'm sure they probably have anywhere from 30 to 100 to 200 I mean, they'll have a significant amount of patents, even it's just within the Apple Watch, everything from the screen, the display, how it's waterproof, how it does communications, how does the battery management, how does the touch, how does the interface, all of those are going to be different aspects that they continue to, you know, did it originally in the original Apple Watch, and are always iterating and changing as they continue to improve the technology. So generally, you know that, I'm sure that you will start out with as a business of protecting you're getting a foundational patent where you kind of protect the initial invention, but if it's successful and you're building it out, you're going to continue to file a number of patents to capture those ongoing innovations, and then you're going to file it into all of the countries where you have a reasonable market size that makes it worthwhile to make the investment. Michael Hingson  51:32 So if you have a new company and they've got a name and all that, what should new businesses do in terms of looking and performing a comprehensive search for of trademarks and so on to make sure they are doing the right thing. Devin Miller  51:49 Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, it wanted, if you're it depends on the size of company, your budget, there's always the overlay of, you know, you can want to do everything in the world, and if you don't have the budget, then you have to figure out what goes in your budget. But if I'll take it from kind of a startup or a small business perspective, you know, you first thing you should do is just as stupid and as easy as it sounds, you should go do a Google search. Or, now that you have chat GPT, go do a chat BT search and a Google search. But, you know, because it's interesting as it sounds, or, you know, is you think that, oh, that's, you know, kind of give me or an automatic I'll have still even till today, people come into my office. They'll say, Hey, I've got this great idea, this great invention, and a Lacher getting a patent on it, and they'll start to walk me through it. I'm like, you know, I could have sworn I've seen that before. I've seen something very similar. We'll sit down at my desk, take two minutes, do a Google search, and say, so is this a product that you're thinking of? Oh, yeah, that's exactly it. Okay. Well, you can't really get a patent on something that's already been invented and out there, and so, you know, do a little bit of research yourself. Now there is a double edged sword, because you can do research and sometimes you'll have one or two things happen. You'll not having the experience and background, not entirely knowing what you're doing. You'll do research, and you'll either one say, Hey, I've done a whole bunch of research. I can't really find anything that's similar. When, in fact, there's a lot of similar things out there. There's a patent, and people will say, yeah, it's the same, it's the same invention, but my purpose is a little bit different. Well, you can't if it's the exact same or invention. Whether or not you say your purpose is different, doesn't get around their patent and same thing on a trademark. Yeah, their brand's pretty much 53:20 identical, but they're Devin Miller  53:21 doing legal services and I'm doing legal tools, and so it's different, and it's, again, it's one where there's there they have a false sense of security because they rationalize in their head why it's different, or vice versa. You also get people that will say, Hey, this is even though it's significantly different, it's the same purpose. And so while, while they really could go do the product, while they could get a patent or a trademark, because they think that it's just overall kind of the same concept, then they talk themselves out of it when they don't need to. So I would say, start out doing some of that initial research. I would do it if I was in their shoes, but temper it with, you know, do it as an initial review. If there's something that's identical or the same that's out there, then it gives you an idea. Probably, you know, you're not going to be able to add a minimum, get or patent their intellectual property protection, and you may infringe on someone else's but if you you know, if there's, there's some differences, or have to do that initial research, that's probably the time, if you're serious about, you know, investing or getting business up and going, you've probably engaged an attorney to do a more formal search, where they have the experience in the background and ability to better give a better understanding or determination as to whether or not something presents an issue. Michael Hingson  54:32 Yeah, well, that's understandable. If I've developed something and I have a patent for it, then I suddenly discovered that people are selling knockoffs or other similar devices on places like Amazon and so on. What do you do about that? Because I'm sure there must be a bunch of that that that does go on today. Devin Miller  54:53 Yeah, yes, it does. I mean, I wouldn't say it's not as probably as prevalent as some people think. In other words, not every single. Product, right, being knocked off. Not everything is copied. Sometimes it's because, you know, either I don't have the ability, I don't have the investment, I don't have the, you know, it's not as big enough marketplace, I don't have the manufacturing, I don't have the connections, or it is simply, am respectful, and I'm not going to go do a discord because I'm not going to try and rip off, you know, what I think is someone else's idea. So it doesn't happen that as frequently as I think sometimes people think it does, but it certainly does occur. You know, there's a competitive marketplace, there's a profit incentive, and if there's a good product that's out there that people think they can do something with, and there's a motivation to do it, either because people are unaware that it's an issue, or that they they're unaware that they can't copy it or is protected. And so if you get into that, you know, there's a few potentially different recourses. One is, you know, a lot of times you'll start out with the cease and desist.

Imagination, storytelling, and the human voice are at the heart of this conversation I shared with voice actor and coach Linda Bearman. We talked about her journey from early acting to decades in voiceover, why audio drama is finding new life, and what it really takes to build a career in a changing industry shaped by home studios and AI. Linda offered honest insight into training, discipline, and the business side of voice work, along with a clear reminder that technology cannot replace lived experience, emotional truth, or imagination. More than anything, this episode is about staying human, staying kind, and following the passion that brings stories to life, no matter how fast the world changes. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear why sounding natural and emotionally present matters more than performance tricks in voice acting. 02:52 – Learn why audio drama is resurging and what today's audiences are craving from storytelling again. 10:48 – Understand how voiceover evolved into a true craft and why it demands respect, discipline, and training. 20:17 – Get a clear look at how AI has already changed the voiceover industry and where human voices still hold the edge. 30:18 – Discover why imagination is a muscle that must be trained to bring stories to life through audio alone. 55:22 – Learn why preserving classic radio techniques is essential to developing the next generation of voice actors. About the Guest: Linda Bearman has amassed decades of experience in the performing arts beginning as a child actress and continuing into adulthood. Her career was enriched by studies and performances in the US and abroad working with legendary actors from prestigious theatre's including; The Arena Stage (Washington D.C.), The Actors Studio (NYC), The National Theatre of Great Britain and The Old Vic (UK). After obtaining her degree in Acting, Linda continued performing on stage and screen until moving to Los Angeles where she transitioned into TV production working for King World Productions on shows; The Oprah Winfrey Show, Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune. Later, while working for Landmark Productions she was offered a position at the esteemed commercial talent agency, SBV,Inc (Sutton, Barth & Vennari). Becoming a VO agent was a pivotal point in Linda's career as it was there that Linda discovered her passion for voiceover, an art form that perfectly aligned with her acting background and business acumen.  Following seven years at SBV, she relocated to Utah and worked in the casting department of Leucadia Film Corp. while also voicing regional radio and TV commercials. Recognizing the need for a professional full service talent agency in Salt Lake City, she established, co-owned and operated the successful TMG,Inc. (Talent Management Group) in its first decade of business. Her enthusiasm for developing talent led her to become a full-time VO coach, mentoring actors in performance techniques, branding, marketing, and demo production of which several earned industry recognitions. She stays up to date with the latest industry developments and actively shares it with her clients. Linda is honored to serve as a judge for the annual international SOVAS Arts Awards (Society of Voice Arts and Sciences) and delights in performing live recreations of radio shows from the "Golden Age" with REPS (Radio Enthusiasts of Puget Sound) in Seattle, WA each year.  Ways to connect with Linda**:** LinkedIn-Linda Bearman About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What if your website is quietly turning people away without you ever knowing it? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, Michael Hingson talks with Lori Osbourne, a branding strategist and web accessibility advocate whose personal health journey reshaped how she helps businesses show up online. Lori shares how unclear messaging, weak branding, and inaccessible websites block trust, visibility, and growth. Together, they unpack why accessibility is not just about compliance, but about inclusion, credibility, and better SEO, and how simple changes like clearer messaging, alt text, contrast, and video captions can transform both user experience and business results. Highlights: 00:01 – Understand why disability is often left out of diversity conversations and why that needs to change 13:56 – Learn how a life-altering health crisis forced a complete reset in career and priorities 27:10 – Discover why a website alone is not enough to establish authority or visibility 34:19 – Learn why unclear messaging is the biggest reason websites fail to convert 44:43 – Understand what website accessibility really means and who it impacts 59:42 – Learn the first step to take if your online presence feels overwhelming About the Guest: Lori Osborne, affectionately known as The Authority Amplifier, is a Brand Strategist, Website Consultant, and the founder of BizBolster Web Solutions. With over 25 years in technology and nearly a decade of experience helping coaches, consultants, authors, and speakers build a profitable online presence, Lori is the powerhouse behind The Authority Platform™, a complete done-for-you system designed to transform overwhelm into opportunity. Her signature branding process, The Authority Blueprint™, helps clients clarify their message, define their visual and verbal identity, and identify what truly sets them apart in their field. She then brings that strategy to life with an authority-building website - strategically crafted on the Duda platform to reflect credibility, connect authentically, and convert consistently - without the headaches of WordPress maintenance or tech confusion. Unlike agencies that offer cookie-cutter sites or developers who disappear after launch, Lori builds long-term relationships by delivering personalized, high-touch service. Through The Authority Platform™, she combines brand clarity, trust-building web design, lead generation funnels, SEO, accessibility, and sales systems into one cohesive, visibility-driving engine. Lori is known for her warmth, resilience, and insightfulness, and for making her clients feel fully seen and heard. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels with digital tools that don't deliver, and finally create a platform that amplifies your voice, authority, and impact, Lori is your strategic partner. Ways to connect with Lori**:** https://www.bizbolster.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/loriaosborne/ https://www.facebook.com/bizbolster https://www.instagram.com/bizbolsterlori Link to Freebie: https://www.bizbolster.com/vip-visibility-audit About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:17 Well, hello everyone. Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I am your host, Michael Hingson, or you can call me Mike, it's fine, and I gave the full title of the podcast for a very specific reason. Where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, typically, diversity people never want to include disabilities in what they discuss or what they do. And if you ask the typical diversity people, what's diversity? They'll talk about race, gender, sexual orientation, and they don't deal with disabilities. But the reality is, and they say that disability isn't a real mindset. Well, Balderdash, it is. Just asked the 25% of America's population, according to the CDC, that has a disability, and they'll tell you that disability is a minority. But the reason I bring it all up is today, we get to talk with Lori Osborne, and she is a person who's been very deeply involved in website development, in branding and coaching, and she is very concerned about and likes to try to help deal with the issue of accessibility on websites. So we're going to have a fun time talking about all of that, much less the platform she uses, as opposed to WordPress, and I'm really curious to hear more about that, because I've my website is a WordPress website, but, but, you know, I think there are so many different ways to deal with things today. We'll, we'll have a fun time. But Lori, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank you Lori Osbourne  02:56 so much for having me. Mike, I love being here. Cannot wait to talk. Michael Hingson  03:01 Well, let's do it. Why don't we start by you telling us kind about the early Laurie growing up and all that stuff, and kind of how you got started. Okay, start at the beginning. Lori Osbourne  03:14 At the beginning. All right. I was born in San Diego. More your neck of the woods. San Diego Naval Hospital, but only got to live in California for two years, which I've always been disappointed about. My my family had my grandfather built a home in La Jolla. So you know, I was I've always been jealous of how my mom got to grow up, but I only got to spend two years there and then I got moved to Norman, Oklahoma, home of the Sooners, never watched football, never went to one football game my entire life. Michael Hingson  03:51 I've never been to a professional or college football game. My wife had, but I never got to go to a football game. I think it'd be kind of fun to do once, as long as I could still pick it up on the radio and know what's going on. Lori Osbourne  04:03 There you go. Yeah, I had zero interest in football until I met my current husband in 2011 and he doesn't miss a professional football game, an NFL game. So I have, I have come to embrace it and enjoy the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Kansas City Chiefs. So there you go. Michael Hingson  04:24 So you're in Florida and you don't root for a Florida team, huh? Lori Osbourne  04:29 I don't, we won't hold it again, you know. Well, you know, I'm one of those. So I moved from Oklahoma to Colorado to Denver area. So I was a Broncos fan when I lived in Colorado, but that was the days of, oh my gosh. Now my mind is going to completely go blank. This is so embarrassing. The the Great, the greatest Broncos player who is now a general manager, John, oh my gosh. Can think of a it'll come to me. But anyway, he, you know, we. Were actually like, yes, thank you. Thank you very much. Elway. Yes, I was a guest. So we were actually, like, winning Super Bowls when I first moved there, so, you know, and then it went, kind of went. Then I became a Peyton Manning fan, and my husband's from Pennsylvania, and he's like, you can't just change your mind about who you support every time we move. And I'm like, but I can't, yeah, why not? So when we moved to Florida, I Michael Hingson  05:26 the Jaguars, jaguars, yeah, yeah, they Lori Osbourne  05:29 just haven't been a great team. And I I watched Mahoney, Mahoney play for Kansas City, and I just fell in love with how he plays and just his style and his leadership, and I just became a Kansas City fan, just because I love watching him. And last season was a little disappointing because he didn't throw as much, but, but, you know, he's, he's amazing, so that's that's my reasoning. Michael Hingson  06:03 So So you you didn't fall in love with Travis Kelsey and try to go steal him away from Taylor Swift before things got serious? Lori Osbourne  06:12 No, no, I was already in love with my current husband. Michael Hingson  06:15 So see, tell him that there are some things and some loves that do transcend location. Lori Osbourne  06:23 There you go. Yes, absolutely. Well, you know, he's so obsessed with football that we I actually included in our marriage vows that I would support him through his two fantasy football teams and a lifetime of football in my future, because I knew I was marrying football when I married him. Michael Hingson  06:46 One of the things that spoils me about sports out here, and it's not so much anymore, but it used to be the case is, I think that here in especially southern California, we had the best sports announcers in the business. We had Vin Scully doing baseball, and I think that it'll be a long, long time before anyone comes up to the caliber of Vince Scully. And there, there are things that they do now that that really messed that up. But Vinnie was a was was the best. We had Dick Enberg, who did football and and other people. And Chick Hearn did basketball. Chick hurr had talked so fast that I don't know how he was able to do it, but I learned how to listen fast because I grew up listening to Chick Hearn new basketball. I love it. So, so I got spoiled on sports, listening to those announcers. I keep up with football from a news standpoint, especially when it gets close to the Super Bowl, so I can decide who I'm going to if anybody for for in the Super Bowl when they have it. Yeah, I do kind of like the Rams, because I live out here and I've always kind of liked them, although I was mad at them when they moved to St Louis for a while, but, but still, they're the Rams. I mean, we'll see what they do this year. I think they've got a good coach, but I by no means am a football expert or anything like that. I keep up though. Lori Osbourne  08:08 Me neither. I, yeah, I kind of joke, you know, my husband will watch like, you know, eight games at once, the red zone or the whatever, and it's flipping around. And I just can't, so I just joke I'm a fourth quarter watcher. On Sunday nights, Monday nights, I'll watch the fourth quarter and because that's where you know if it's gonna happen, that's where it's gonna happen if it's gonna be worth watching. Michael Hingson  08:30 Yeah, well, I'll be interested to see what happens tomorrow, because the Chargers are playing the chiefs in Brazil. Lori Osbourne  08:41 Yes, and I don't, I don't even know if we're going to get to watch it, because, you know, the NFL spread out across all these different platforms now, and if you don't have the platform, you're out of luck. Michael Hingson  08:52 I think it's going to be on TV. It'll be watchable, but it starts at 530 Pacific Time, and I don't quite understand that. If they're doing it live, that would mean it's going to start at nine. Start at 930 in the evening in San Paulo. So I don't know how all that's going to work. We'll see. Lori Osbourne  09:07 Yeah, yeah, we shall see. Yeah, we're I don't know if we're watching tomorrow nights, but my husband's definitely watching tonight, for sure. Well, I Michael Hingson  09:15 don't think there are more games on tomorrow other than that one, so maybe he will. And maybe you actually get to focus and just see one game, Lori Osbourne  09:24 right, right? That's, that's, that's the nice part about the non Sunday games. Usually it's just, Michael Hingson  09:31 well, so you, so you grew up and you, you only lived in California for two years, and then where did you go? Lori Osbourne  09:40 I lived in Norman, that's right, until I was 29 I actually found my birth father when I was 23 and moved to Colorado to get to know him and his family. Michael Hingson  09:55 So you were a diamond. Lori Osbourne  10:00 Not really. I just, he was just never part of my life. Your mom married someone else, yeah, okay, yeah. I always had. My mom just didn't have my dad. And it's, you know, it's been an interesting experience, because, you know, being in my 20s when I met him, and my mom and I were opposite growing up, and I never understood my personality, because she was quiet and passive and wanted to work in the same job her entire life, and I was the opposite. I was vivacious and loud and aggressive and always wanted to be self employed. Then I met my dad and went, Oh, it explained it all, I'm just like him. It's crazy how the you know the genes work for sure, Michael Hingson  10:51 but you got to know him, and the relationship was a good one. Lori Osbourne  10:55 Yeah, yeah, right. We just, he's in Idaho now. We just got back a couple of weeks ago from visiting. I mean, it's been interesting, trying to enter a family, you know, in your 20s is is bizarre. I kind of, I kind of equate it to being an in law, like, I'm not quite all the way in, because I, you know, I didn't grow up with these people. They don't know me. But, yeah, it's been interesting. So where in Idaho, near Coeur d'Alene Sand Point near Michael Hingson  11:25 standpoint, I have a brother in law who lives in Ketchum, in Sun Valley, and who is an avid skier, and has been an avid skier basically his whole life. Now the real big question is, of course, where is your father when it comes to football, Lori Osbourne  11:46 my father does not sit still. Okay? That is, that is one way that we are different. He I joke that he'll probably outlive me. I mean, he lives on 14 acres. I think he just, they just sold 40 Acres. But he doesn't. He never sits still. He He's always going, going, going, working on, you know, he had, he had his business, which he sort of still does. But he works on fences or helps with the does something with the horses or the hay or the, you know, it's just it. He works his plan does not I don't think he the TV when we were there was on music the entire time. Yep. Michael Hingson  12:30 So hardly a person who tends to watch football. Well, that's okay. So you, you grew up in Norman? Did you go to college there or in the area? Lori Osbourne  12:43 I went for a year and then couldn't figure out how to keep paying for it. I honestly didn't even realize financial aid was a thing. So I started in the workforce and became a recruiter, technical recruiter, pretty early in my career. I did that for 12 years, and then started my own recruiting business and got my degree during that time. So I got a bachelor's degree in business administration, 4.0 average while working. Proud of that, but I was in my 30s, and then I got cancer right after that, had colon cancer at 36 which I blame an 18 year abusive, horrible marriage, I think really led to that, but it pushed me To get out of that horrible abuse of marriage. And then a few years later, I met my current husband, and I am the happiest I've ever been, Michael Hingson  13:51 but you also were able to, in one way or another, beat the cancer Lori Osbourne  13:58 I was, yes, it was actually stage one colon cancer. Only had surgery so that one, yeah, didn't even have to have chemo or radiation. And actually, what got me into my current business? I was a when I got divorced, I did this is kind of funny to me. I when I got divorced, I decided I no longer wanted to be straight commission, and because I had gotten a job after after the cancer, and now I'm self employed. And so why? I think I wouldn't want to be straight commission, but it's okay to be self employed, but it's a completely different mindset. You know yourself very much a different mindset. But I was in tech. I moved from recruiting into hands on technology. I did project management, software testing, I looked at websites and helped design websites from a business perspective, but I was never, never a coder, never, you know, did the visual design? Nine and in 2015 I we had just moved to the opposite side of Denver. We had just changed, I had just changed jobs, had a brand new home, and then found out I had a brain tumor. Michael Hingson  15:15 Oh, gosh, yeah, you're just an attention getting person. Lori Osbourne  15:19 That's all you. I know. That's it. I just walk around going, yep, that's it. So, yeah. So I, I ended up leaving the job because it was, it was very traumatic. I ended up having two surgeries. They couldn't remove the tumor. It's part of my carotid artery. It's a meningioma. It's benign, but it's part of my carotid artery, and it was causing my left eye to droop, so they went in to get it off the optical nerve and nicked the carotid and caused a brain bleed. And that brain bleed caused that drooping eye to become a half blind eye. So I ended up, for about a year and a half, I had double vision. I also had found out I had a stroke from it, I was having problems with words and forming, you know, the right words. And I had no tolerance for stress for a long time, so there was no way I was going back to project management in the IT world, right? This wasn't so I literally, I spent about a year recovering and just started messing around, going, Okay, well, what can I do with the talents that I have? And I started building a website on Squarespace, and it was called Health Net, like grandma. And it was just talking about my I lost my mother and my grandmother to cancer at 63 both at 63 and then I had gone through what I went through. And I just wanted to share the stories, you know, the what I've learned from a health perspective. And in doing that, went, wow. Why have I not been developing websites the last 20 years? This is what I should be doing. I love this, and I bet other business owners could really use some help doing this. And that's when my business was born. Michael Hingson  17:20 Wow. How did they discover the brain tumor? Lori Osbourne  17:26 It started with me falling asleep at my brand new job desk. Was I could not hold my eyes open. I actually thought it was an adrenal reaction to leaving a super high stress job to a very boring job, but it was not. They did all these tests. They put me on thyroid medication, which helped, and then my left eye started drooping, like literally within weeks together and and it was funny, because they they sent me to an eye doctor, and the eye doctor sent me to an eye surgeon, and they wanted to do surgery on it. And I'm like, don't you want to figure out why this is happening? Like, I don't want you to touch my eye until you know why my eye is drooping. And my doctor thought that was the craziest thing she'd ever heard. So she goes, Well, have we done an MRI yet? And I said, No, so they sent me for an MRI that day. And lo and behold, not only do you have a brain tumor, but you have had a stroke. Okay. Gosh, you know, she did not want to share that news, those news with me. She was very embarrassed. Probably, well, Michael Hingson  18:43 but you need to know, yeah, and clearly you already had demonstrated that you had an analytical mind, and it would be valuable for you to know, because it would help you in dealing with making decisions, or thinking about what decisions to make going forward, right? Yeah, so you did. So you went through the surgeries and all of that, and what, what happened to your your left eye, Lori Osbourne  19:10 it, it's still mostly blind. I have a sliver of vision that I can't control. So if I go to the eye doctor, they try to get me to look at the chart, and I can't focus it on the chart, and I get very frustrated. I blocked it for the first year. Now my eyes are so it's it's developed its own way of working, so I can't even block it anymore without causing worse headaches than I already have. Bad headaches kind of came out of all of this. So I really just live with it. I live with the headaches, and I ignore it as much as I possibly can and and hope it's improved slightly over. The last 10 years, they told me it would never improve. But, you know, our brains are amazing things, and it's it's trying, but it's still not. I just tell them make the left eye prescription the same as the right eye because it makes no difference. Yeah. Michael Hingson  20:17 Well, so with, with with all that you've you've dealt with, with, with this clearly, you figured out a way to go forward, and you've, now, I assume, used all that happened to you, and you've analyzed it in some way or another, that you have made some decisions about what you want to do with your life, which is namely the whole brand development and web development and dealing with accessibility, which is pretty cool. Lori Osbourne  20:51 Yeah, yeah, I am. Once I discovered that passion and the I honestly never realized I had the creative side of me. I knew I had the analytical I knew I had the project management and tech, but once I realized I actually have a very strong creative side, then websites were the way to go. And it's it's really I can be working on a website for four hours straight and feel no pain, and that that alone tells me I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I love it that much, and I feel like I'm that talented at it. Michael Hingson  21:30 I think you've made a very interesting observation, and one that I relate to very well, which is working commission is one thing, but working for yourself, which, in some senses, is the same, but it's totally different, and you have to have a different mindset to make it work. Lori Osbourne  21:48 Oh, absolutely, yes. I mean, I'm I'm not selling a product for someone else. I'm selling myself, and I am the product, and I have to live by my my values and my mission and my why, which is completely different than selling services for someone else, for straight commission. Michael Hingson  22:12 I have always told my the people who I hired as sales people to analyze and and think about what they do. And one of the things that I did with every person I ever hired was I would say, tell me what you're going to sell. And literally, all but one person said, Oh, we're going to sell the product. This is the product we're selling. This is what it does. But the best sales guy I ever hired, when I asked that question, Said, the only thing I have to sell is myself and my word, and I need you to back me up when I give my word about something, Michael Hingson  22:50 great answer. It was, it was the actual, it was the answer I was looking for. And I said, well, as long as we communicate, and I know what you're going to say, and that's all about trust, I'm going to back you up. And never had an issue. And in fact, he and I worked very well together, because we figured out how my talents in sales and management could augment and accentuate what he did, so that the two of us could work together. And I think that's that's so important, but you're right. The only thing any really good salesperson has to sell is themselves, and you have to be true to your own attitudes. Yes, yes, which is so Lori Osbourne  23:33 integrity is everything. I mean, if you especially as a small business owner, I mean, and I'm in a very small community, and I this. I only lived here since 2018 and it's kind of been shocking to me how how a small community works. But if you do it right, everybody knows your name. If you do it wrong, everybody knows your name. Yeah, it's you know when, every time I get a call because the chamber has referred me again. I just smile, and I'm like, Okay, I'm doing it right, you know? And it's, to me, it's all about integrity. If you, if you say you're going to do something, do it, and if you can't do it, say you can't do it, say you can't do right, or say I'm going to figure it out. Yeah, you know, I didn't. I charged very little my first few years, and I always my first few years, I told clients, I don't know what I'm doing yet, so I'm not charging you for the time that I'm learning. I'm going to charge you for the time that I'm actually accomplishing something. Michael Hingson  24:30 One of the things I always told every again, every salesperson I ever hired is for at least the first year. You're a student. No matter what you think you know and what you know about sales, when you're working with customers, you're a student, ask them questions, really learn from them, because they want you to be successful, even if you don't think they do. And the reality is that, in general, they do want you to be successful, and the more you encourage them to teach you, the better relationship you're going to develop. Lori Osbourne  24:59 Absolutely. And 100% yes. Michael Hingson  25:02 So how long ago did you end up having the brain tumor? Lori Osbourne  25:07 I was diagnosed in August of 2015 So wow, I'm, I'm at exactly 10 years. 10 years. Yeah, I didn't, oh my gosh. September 22 will be my my first surgery dates. There you go. Wow. Right at 10 years Michael Hingson  25:23 See, I'm glad we we help you remember, Lori Osbourne  25:27 I can't, I can't believe that was, like, not even on my mind. I mean, it was actually September 17. Was the first surgery, that's right, and it's the same day as my dog's birthday. And we were just talking about my dog's birthday yesterday, but I didn't even think about the tumor. So well, it's all good Michael Hingson  25:47 a week from next Wednesday. But you know, you you obviously are doing well, well, so how did your your business in the the way you do things and what you do? How did all that change after the surgery, or had you already started down the road of branding and being a branding coach and website development and accessibility? Lori Osbourne  26:10 No, all of this came as a result of all of it. So it literally just grew with me, as I, you know, transitioned into life again, and being able to function mentally and physically, I would just start, you know, working on a little bit of, you know, a couple of websites. The first website I built was from for a realtor that we worked with. We did three different deals with him in two years. He was this great Scottish guy, great personality, and his website was horrific. And I begged him to let me do it. It was a I think we ended up doing 39 pages total, and just read redid the whole thing. He loved it. A lot of it's still in place 10 years later. But I just, I just started building, and then we moved to the area we are now outside Jacksonville, and I found a local networking group and started meeting people and getting introduced to businesses and just slowly built and learned a little bit at a time, and learned a little bit more. And then it was not actually until last year I realized that I have branding skills and talent that I haven't been promoting. I was using the skills and I was building on brand websites, but I didn't say that, and I didn't recognize it as a separate talent from website development. I kind of thought everybody did that, until I realized that that's not true. So I've been doing it, and a lot of it is just, I the natural, just natural talent for color and almost like designing houses. Like I knew I was really good at designing houses, but I didn't recognize that that translated to websites. And so for last, like, year to 18 months, I've really kind of bought into the brand strategy piece of what I offer. Michael Hingson  28:19 Well, how did you develop this concept of authority platforms, and what is it? Lori Osbourne  28:27 So the authority platform is what I'm calling the full package. It kind of started when I got really frustrated with everybody telling me or everybody's an exaggeration, but so many people saying, Oh, you don't need a website. You just need landing pages. And I would try to educate people that landing pages are not enough, but I couldn't put it in the right words, and when I started really looking at it, going, well, landing pages are great, if you have the visibility to get people to the landing page, and if you've built a relationship in a different way, if it's through speaking or through a book or through other types of promotions, then yes, the landing page can help or maybe replace the website. But where that led me was a website alone is also not enough. We need full visibility. We need to be seen in a lot of different ways to establish our authority as experts. So with the authority platform, I'm looking at the brand and understanding the brand, the website, the lead magnet, the funnels, the search engine optimization, and then helping them also have a good CRM to manage all of this, hooking them up with with good speaking coaches or podcast. Opportunities and just looking at it from a full life cycle of being visible and showing that authority online. Michael Hingson  30:10 And how's that gone over? Lori Osbourne  30:14 It's, I'm still building it honestly, the website's absolutely I'm I'm really working on building the collaboration pieces for the rest of it to truly say, Yes, I have the authority platform, the branding packages that I'm offering and the branding pieces that I'm doing are making a significant difference in the quality of the websites I'm building, because I come out of it with a custom GPT that they can use, and I can use that really establishes that baseline for the brand and the bringing in their values, bringing in their communication style, and bringing in their ideal client and how to speak to that ideal client. So the GPT is built around all of that, which is perfect when we're building the content for the website. So I would say, you know, we're 75% of the way there to having my true authority platform. But I'm still building, you know, authority building websites every day. Michael Hingson  31:20 Well, I gather that you don't tend to like to use WordPress. You use Duda as a platform builder and so on. Tell me, I'm curious why and what, and I don't have any any disagreement or or really knowledge to talk intelligently about it. But tell me why you use Duda and what, what it brings. Lori Osbourne  31:44 So my my challenges with WordPress started with my first client in Florida. They there was a nonprofit. They had no idea what they were doing, and I'm like, I I'm techie. I can go in, I can figure it out, and I could not figure out WordPress, and I got very frustrated with it going, how in the world does anybody else do this? So I kind of stayed away from it for a little while, and I was building on Squarespace for a time, and then I discovered Duda. I consider Duda to be the best of Wix and Squarespace. It's very similar. But the things I don't like about Wix, I don't like about Squarespace, Duda has resolved. It's also very customer oriented and SEO oriented and accessibility oriented. So there's a lot of advantages to the platform. The reason I don't support WordPress is I've had too many, too many people come to me with broken websites. Too many WordPress people do not educate their clients that that you have to update the plugins, and they don't. They just leave them and don't offer to do that for them, and it's it's an unnecessary addition that I don't think most people need for their website. There's plenty of things that we can do and do to that we can do exactly like WordPress without the headaches of that extra tech and plugins breaking and security breaking because the plugins are breaking, and it's it just it's too unnecessary, in my opinion. I tried to support WordPress for about a year and a half, and I found that I was not helping my Duda clients because the WordPress was always so much high maintenance. And those were the websites that were going down, and those are the websites that were having issues where my due to clients, their websites were never down, they never had issues. Michael Hingson  33:51 But don't need, but don't you, from time to time need to provide any kind of updates to Duda doesn't. Aren't there as the as the whole website evolves, doesn't, don't you need to find ways to evolve what they are and what they do Lori Osbourne  34:05 on the front end, on the front end, absolutely I mean, but from the back end, from a platform perspective, Duda handles all of that. It's self contained. Got it? I don't have to worry about that. And they're also always adding new features, which is another thing I absolutely love about them there, and I have yet to find, let me rephrase that. I've probably found a couple of things that if I could not duplicate on Duda to match WordPress, it would require code, and I don't code, but I can still achieve the goal of what my clients are looking for. There's nothing that they've said I have to have this that I can't provide. And the offset of not having the worry around the tech is has always been worth it. Michael Hingson  34:55 So the creators of Duda in the background as. They make updates and changes, they go out to everybody who uses it to create their websites automatically. Is that? Is that what happens? Lori Osbourne  35:07 Okay, yeah, it's seamless. Yeah, you don't even, you have no idea that there's even updates being done. It's completely seamless. Michael Hingson  35:15 Yeah, okay, well, I understand that. That makes a lot of sense. What's the one mistake that you find that keeps business owners from really progressing and keeping their websites and them invisible? What's the biggest mistake you see? Lori Osbourne  35:36 Messaging unclear, messaging which, which really goes back to the brand. If you don't understand your brand, you don't understand your why, and you don't know how to express how you solve problems for your ideal client, let me, let me rephrase. If you don't even know your ideal client is and you're trying to speak to them, a lot of people think they sell to everyone, and when you try to sell to everyone, you sell to no one. And if you are trying to speak to the masses from your website, you're going to lose the people you really want to reach. So it comes down to that, that niching down factor and really understanding your ideal client, so that when they hit your website, they immediately know you understand my problem and you can fix it. And it really comes down to that versus I can fix, you know, I can build a website for anybody. Well, then that makes me no different than a website developer down the street. Then it comes down to a price comparison, and then we're just bidding against each other. So you've gotta, you've gotta what makes you special, and what and and your why is a big part of that. Your values are a big part of that. And speaking the right language and that messaging. Michael Hingson  37:03 Can you tell me a story of maybe one customer that you worked with where you can demonstrate exactly what you're talking about here and why it made a difference without mentioning customer names, but the story? Lori Osbourne  37:17 Oh, yeah, um, you know, it's been a while since I did that realtor, but that realtor is still just such a great example, because you the fact that he was from Scotland doesn't necessarily seem significant, but it really does, because, you Know that Scottish accent made him endearing. He was a very professional, good looking guy. And you go out to his website, and it was, I can still see it today. It was like green and this old, funky text, and it, it represented him in no way. And I remember the first thing he told me was, you know, I've got this video where I introduced myself and I went, why in the world is that not on your homepage, like what people need to hear you speak and see you and experience you. He was phenomenal. And we did three deals with him. He was phenomenal at what he did, and that what, you know, if we had just rebuilt his website and just did the video, it would have that alone would have made a huge difference in people knowing who they were working with and how he was different. And another example I can give more recently, I work with a mentor who mentors seven figure coaches on how to work harder, make more money and and do it in less, less investment of your time. And when I took over her WordPress website for for two years, I just kept repeating and rebuilding the same crap, basically. And finally, when I decided to leave WordPress, I said, you know, I really want to start all over. And I realized in that two years, you know, I had not taken the time to really get to know her brand. And when we sat down and really learned what made her special and different, and we were able to capture that in in the website, that the difference in the experience was night and day, you know, before it was just text, and, you know, a little bit of information. She never referred anybody to her website. And now it, you know, opens with a video. She's also a professional speaker. Opens with a video of her speaking. She is very she's a. Ballroom dancer on the side, she's very elite. So we, you know, pulling in things like gold and video, I have a lot of motion on the website with gold moving because it, it, it's that brand of that dancer that, you know, that eliteness of it and it, it's subtle, and it has nothing to do with the messaging side that I just mentioned, but it's still back to the brand and the representing of who you are, who she is, what we're selling, you know, we're selling ourselves. Michael Hingson  40:33 Yeah, well, websites and website developers put all sorts of things out there and that that's not necessarily a good thing. But what are some signs that a business's online presence don't necessarily match their real life expertise? Because I I believe that people see through people who just sort of talk, and I think that that all too often, you get this reaction, oh, they're just talking that isn't what they really believe or that isn't what they really know. So what are some signs that the online presence doesn't match what they really know and what they really are? Lori Osbourne  41:15 Part of it is that that genericness, if you if you can't even say who you are serving, then you're obviously the person you're looking at is obviously not clear about their ideal client. If it's not clear who they are serving, and if it's this just generic message of not in these words, but we're the best use us. You know, there's, there's no detail about what makes them different and how they specifically solve your problem. If the website is completely outdated or generic, that may or may not allude to anything but it, it definitely shows that they don't, are not using their website to show their expertise. The other huge thing, I would say, is testimonials. Every website should have reviews. I mean, what better way to sell ourselves than to have someone else say how we're different, how we operate and why we're the why we're the best. That is huge. If it's all about them, as in the person's website you're looking at, if it's not, if I'm, if I'm getting on a website and they're not even acknowledging what's in it for me and how they're going to solve my problems, then I'm not going to have any confidence that they have any idea how to solve my problems. They haven't even they haven't even talked about my problems. They haven't even mentioned my problems. They're just telling me that they're selling me something, and this is how much it costs, and this is what it's going to do. But I but do you get me? Do you know? Do you understand me? I think all those are it's really important that we are speaking to the ideal client in their language about their problem. Michael Hingson  43:10 I have heard so many times and totally agree with and work to do this myself. Michael Hingson  43:18 The whole concept of when I'm invited to speak, it's not about me. Yeah, I'm invited to speak, but my job is to enhance, to help to make life as easy as possible for the event organizer, to help the event organizer make this, the whole conference, even better than they thought it would be. And and I have to do that because it's not about me, and it should never be about me as such, right? Lori Osbourne  43:48 It's also about your audience and your audience, yeah, so that they know you want them to want to know more. Yeah, that's also the purpose of your website to make people want to know more. Michael Hingson  44:01 Yeah, very true, and it should be that way. And if you're doing it right, you'll also provide more for them to know. Right? Lori Osbourne  44:15 Absolutely. Well, that would be something else that I would say I I always encourage people to give away as much as possible on their website. It if people know that you really want to help me solve my problems, and you're willing to give me something for free that starts a relationship. And that's really, at the end of the day, that's the point of the website. It's not to sell, it's to start a relationship. It's like the first step of dating. We're not getting married yet. We're dating, and if you're if you're giving away a piece of yourself through a video or a download or even a free course. Course, that's it. That's going to endear the audience to to want to come back for more. And even blogs, great blogs will get people coming back for more. And people always go, Well, you know, if I give everything away, I'm not going to make any money. No, you give away what? What doesn't cost you time, but is giving some knowledge so that they want more, and they know that you you get them, and they can trust, you know, like and trust so they can build that, that base for a relationship. Michael Hingson  45:32 Yeah, and it, it makes perfect sense. It is all about building trust. And everything that we do is all about building trust, and the more trust you build, the more loyalty you'll create. Lori Osbourne  45:47 Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson  45:49 So we've talked about website accessibility. What is website accessibility and why is it something that people really should focus on? Why is it important? Lori Osbourne  45:59 That feels weird coming from you, Mike, Michael Hingson  46:03 because I know you are an expert in this, but I preach it, but I preach it all the time, so I want to hear what somebody else has to say, and I want people who are watching and listening to this hear from somebody else other than me. Okay, that's the motivation behind it. Lori Osbourne  46:18 All right. All right. Well, website accessibility is at its core. It's making the website available and usable for everyone, including those with disabilities. So whether it's blindness or inability to use a mouse or you said it earlier, dyslexic, Michael Hingson  46:40 epilepsy, any number of things, right? Lori Osbourne  46:43 So anybody, just like accessibility for a ramp into a store, it's allowing me, from my home, as as a disabled person, to be able to function on your website. And as we know, I believe the stat is 20% of people have some kind of disability. It's also an inclusion. It is a piece of I consider a piece of your marketing, because if you are excluding 20% of the people with your website, why? Why are you doing that? It also builds strong Search Engine Optimization. Because if you look at all of the guidelines for accessibility, they're very similar to the guidelines you need to have in place for good search engine optimization. Google is looking for the exact same things. Yep. So it's it's really just making your website available to everyone Michael Hingson  47:42 well, and the reality is, well, let me ask this question, rather than me just saying it beyond legal compliance. Why should accessibility be a priority in website design? You've kind of alluded to it already. Lori Osbourne  47:56 Yeah, part of what I just said, it's including everyone. It's not excluding 20% of your market, and it's building trust, inclusivity and credibility. It's, it's, and it to me, it's showing that you care. It's, it's very bothersome to me when someone says, Well, I probably won't get sued, so I'm not going to worry about it. Okay? But why do you want to not do these basic things so that everyone can access your website? Well? Michael Hingson  48:33 And also, in reality, it does get back to if you're a website owner, that is, you're a company that has a website, and you recognize that the job of your website is to help people see why you have something they need. The fact of the matter is, do you really want to not make available to 20 or 25% of the population your website, or to put it another way, don't you want to make sure that you are making your information available to everyone? And that's what the real reason for website accessibility is truly all about. The fact of the matter is that it's good business to make your website accessible. Lori Osbourne  49:24 Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson  49:26 What are some high impact changes that you think that website owners can make, to make their websites or to have their websites be more accessible, maybe even just some simple things? Lori Osbourne  49:38 Oh, there are so many simple things. I mean, the easiest thing that so many people miss is adding alt text to images. I mean, it's, and it's one thing I love about Duda, by the way, it they do it with AI and do it for you, and you can edit it. It's so, so wonderful. But it's, it's a simple step. It also is. Great step to even help with SEO, because you can include some keywords there, but that that alt text tells someone that's using a tool that's blind exactly what that image is, and what is the point in putting that image on your website if it's not going to provide any value to those that can't see. I mean that, in my opinion, another thing is the contrast in colors. A lot of people don't understand that contrasting colors has a lot to do with readability, and if you are putting two colors together, I mean, think about it even from a scene person, if you're looking at it and you can't read it. It's not accessible, right? So, you know, have high contrast in the colors of text on anything over it. Don't try to put something over an image that can't be read that just just, don't do it. Skip that. I was just doing this on my website today. I was trying to put an image, and I went, you know what? That's just not going to work. I'm going back to a solid color. It doesn't it's it and it, you know, that's from a business perspective as well. Because even if you're not thinking about accessibility, if someone can't read the text or can't read the button, they're not going to click it. You're not going to read it. They're not going to buy it if they can't read it. So simple little things like that. Those would be the two biggest things I would say. And then just, you know, little additional things like making sure that your website is converting properly to mobile, if it's if it's not, if things are coming off the page, because you didn't bother to look at the mobile side, which is easy to miss on many platforms that can have a huge impact on the scene and those that need the tools or need accessibility pieces that's, you know, commonplace design and very easy thing to fix. Michael Hingson  52:11 It's been a while since I looked at this website, and I think it's not quite what it used to be, but for a while, my favorite website, absolutely. My favorite website for accessibility was the website of the National Security Agency, nsa.gov, Michael Hingson  52:31 of all the websites in the entire world. The reason I liked it is that not only did they have all text on images if you were using a screen reader and you moved your cursor over an image, you suddenly got a very detailed description of that image, like you. Michael Hingson  52:55 You moved your cursor where you used your screen reader to move over the American flag. It would say the American flag on a flagpole hanging in front of the opening to the building of the National Security Agency. Yada yada yada. I mean, it's just everything was there. It was the most amazing website. I don't know that it's that way anymore. I haven't looked at it in a little while, but I was very impressed with how much they did and relative and relevantly and appropriately so to make sure that everything on that website was totally usable. And a lot of people could say, Well, why do I have to do that? And the answer is, you have to do it for the same reason that you want to make your website accessible, if you will, for people who don't happen to have a disability. The reality is, all those things that you put on the website for people who can see them and so on, like pictures and so on, if you don't make those things accessible, you're doing a disservice to a significant amount of the population. Whereas, if you do it all, then while you can look at the picture, I can hear all about it, and that's the way it ought to Lori Osbourne  54:10 be well. And there's so much I mean to me that is an opportunity to to even go further with the folks that need the screen reader. Because, I mean, when I'm and I mentioned that dude, it does it with AI, but they, they do it too generically. When I go in, I'm doing exactly what you're talking about. I want to, I want to build the presence of the picture. This is who they're doing, who it is from the business, and this is what they're doing, and this is what you know, this offer is talking about that's an extra sales opportunity right there. For those that you know, need the alt text, why not use that? Michael Hingson  54:49 And also, I'm amazed at how many people may look at pictures and so on and look at words and not really pay attention to them very well, because they just kind of skip over it. So the more you can do to attract people's attention to the right things. Is relevant too. I'm amazed at how many people just gloss over so much. Lori Osbourne  55:09 Oh, absolutely. Well, you know, this kind of become our society, yeah, short attention span for sure. You know, I want to mention two videos. I really feel like people need videos on their website, especially of themselves, because it helps people get to know you. But you need to have that closed captioning and again, dialog. Michael Hingson  55:33 You need to have dialog so that a person who can't see the video will also know what the video shows. Lori Osbourne  55:41 Explain, explain what you mean by that a little bit more. Michael Hingson  55:44 So you go to a website, and there's a video, and you click it, and you start hearing music, and that's all you hear, even though, on the screen you see a person walking down the street, walking into somebody's store, finding a product they want and buying it. But if you don't have a way to make that information audibly accessible to people who can't see the images and who don't see the videos, then what good is it you haven't made it accessible? Yes, closed captioning works for deaf or hard of hearing people, but again, there's so much more that needs to be done. Wow. Lori Osbourne  56:25 Thank you for sharing that, Mike. You just gave me more to think about on videos. Michael Hingson  56:31 One of my favorite commercials to pick on today, and for the longest time, I had no idea at all what it was about. It starts out with music, and somebody says something like, so what do people over 60s show and bring out today? And they talk about love and they talk about something else, and suddenly the sound goes dead, and all you hear for the next 20 seconds or more is this high pitched whistle sound. Ooh, yeah. And I finally got somebody. I finally was in a room with somebody when I heard the beginning of this, and I said, What is it showing? And all it was showing, and what, apparently it is, is a promotion for people getting the RSV vaccination. Lori Osbourne  57:19 Oh, right. Oh, I do know what commercial you're talking about, yes, but text just goes on the screen. Michael Hingson  57:26 RSV, RSV, RSV. But there's nothing that says what that is at all, period, Lori Osbourne  57:33 because they're trying to make the point that you're that your life shuts down when this hits. But yeah, for someone like you, that's completely worthless. Michael Hingson  57:41 Not only does my life not shut down, my life gets very active, and I want to go off and find those commercial designers and show them what true accessibility really ought to be about. But that's another story. But yeah, Lori Osbourne  57:53 yeah, exactly, wow. I mean, I think about you every time I see that commercial, those rare times I see commercials, Michael Hingson  58:05 what's one of the what's one of the myths about branding and websites that you could erase, that you really wish you could race forever? Lori Osbourne  58:18 I probably told you to ask me that question, and now I'm stumped by how I want to answer it. I think, I think I know where I wanted to go with that. Yes, a lot of people think branding is just colors and fonts, and honestly, when I first started doing it, I thought it was just colors and fonts. And I kind of go, I went into Okay, colors and fonts, and then consistency, okay, we want to make sure we got we're consistent with our colors and fonts across everything that we do that's that's branding, that's visual branding. But real branding is Our Story. Is who we are, what we stand for and who we serve. It's the package of everything around what we're selling, back to selling ourselves and really understanding this package and making that consistent across everything. And consistency is huge, in my opinion, when it comes to branding, if you have a different header image or marketing image on every single thing you do and there's no consistency in the look, then you're not going to be memorable. You. I can't help you see this, Mike, but anyone that does go out to anything of mine, I have a very consistent image that was used to build my logo, and it's on everything that I do. I also wear very bright, colorful glasses. Everything I do is very bright and colorful, and it's memorable when people see me and they see my glasses, it can be three years later and they go. I don't remember your name, but boy, I remember those glasses. You know, it's, it's, and that's part of my branding. When people say, I love your your glasses, I go, thank you. It's part of my branding. Yeah. So it's a, it's an overall everything about you. When people describe me, they usually describe me as bright and colorful, like, that's, that's one of the first things that comes to their their mind, and then they it translates to energy, because they think bright, colorful energy. So it's, you know what branding really is, is, what do people say about you when you're not in the room? Michael Hingson  1:00:30 Yeah, that's, that's a good that's what it is. Well, if there is a business owner who is in our audience today who feels overwhelmed by their digital presence. What would you suggest is the first step they should take to change that? Lori Osbourne  1:00:47 Well, the the first thing I would love to see anyone do is sign up for a visibility review or audit with me, so that we can look at your presence and talk about it, and I can give you some very specific suggestions for how to improve your online visibility. If you're wanting to do something on your own and you're you're trying to figure out where to start, sit down and look at first, your your homepage, in your first line of every bit of your marketing and ask yourself, does it say who I serve and how I serve them, and the problems that I solve. Because every ounce of your marketing needs to say that immediately you have less than eight seconds when someone hits your website. And there's all kinds of some people say three, some people say 10s and 15. I just leave it at eight. Do eight or eight or less seconds on your website. So start there is my messaging clear? And then look at your website overall and does it represent me and the message I want people to see. We can go into a whole lot more about it being up to date and everything else, but that's where I would start, right there. Michael Hingson  1:01:58 So how do people reach out to you to get your help to deal with all of this. Lori Osbourne  1:02:02 Well, you can obviously go to my website, which is biz bolster.com, B, I, Z, B, O, L, S, T, E, r.com and I believe you will be sharing a link to that visibility audit. Just sign up for that or a free strategy session. But I encourage the visibility audit, because it literally takes about an hour of my time to check out everything about you and then share that with you. So this is an investment that I'm willing to give you to help you all understand how you show up online, and then what to do about Michael Hingson  1:02:45 it, biz, bolster.com, I hope people will do that, and they can reach out and contact you through that website. Lori Osbourne  1:02:53 Yes, click on, let's chat, and it gives you all the all the calls that you can sign up for in my calendar, and I would absolutely love to speak to anybody that has questions or wants some direction. Michael Hingson  1:03:07 Well, cool. Well, I really appreciate you being here today and spending so much time talking about all this, and I hope people will take it to heart. Wherever you are listening. Reach out, biz, bolster.com and get some insights and get some help to improve the website the web world, because only about 3% of all websites are really accessible today, which means there are a whole lot that are not, and there is no real excuse for that being the case. So reach out and Michael Hingson  1:03:41 you can get all the help that you need. I'd love to hear from you, to hear what you think about today's podcast. Please feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and wherever you're listening, please give us a five star review. We value your ratings and your reviews a lot, and I but I do want to hear from you. I want to hear what your thoughts are. Also, if you know of anyone who might make a good guest for unstoppable mindset, Lori, including you, would really appreciate you introducing us, because we're always looking for people who have great stories to tell, and today has certainly been one of my favorite podcast recordings in a long time, and that's because we really did have fun, and I think we accomplished a lot and we learned a lot. So I want to thank you, Lori, once again, for being here and for being a part of unstoppable mindset. Lori Osbourne  1:04:35 Thank you, Mike. It has definitely been a pleasure. I've enjoyed talking with you a lot. Michael Hingson  1:04:42 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

What happens when physical strength becomes a lifelong tool for service, resilience, and purpose? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Osvaldo Aponte, a Puerto Rico–born personal trainer and military veteran whose journey blends discipline, movement, and mental toughness. Osvaldo shares how growing up in a close-knit community shaped his view of strength, how the Army reinforced resilience and leadership, and why fitness must support life rather than control it. From kettlebell training and biomechanics to recovery after a life-altering bike accident, this conversation explores physical capability as a foundation for confidence, service, and long-term well-being. You'll hear why consistency beats intensity, how strength builds trust in yourself, and what it really means to live with an unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:46 – Learn how growing up in Puerto Rico shaped a lifelong connection to movement, community, and discipline. 08:29 – Hear why joining the military became a gateway to structure, confidence, and opportunity. 14:48 – Discover how early physical preparation made the demands of basic training feel natural. 30:42 – Learn how a near-fatal bike accident forced a clear decision about purpose and priorities. 34:39 – Hear why strength is more than muscle and becomes a mindset for life and service. 53:31 – Discover the long-term habits that make people resilient, adaptable, and truly unstoppable. About the Guest: Osvaldo “Os” Aponte is a strength and movement educator, U.S. Army veteran, and lifelong martial artist committed to helping people build resilient bodies and minds through intelligent training. Originally from Puerto Rico and now based in San Diego, Os has worked as a personal trainer since 2005 and currently serves as a Team Leader for StrongFirst, a global school of strength known for its rigorous standards and elite-level instruction. He is also the author of Iron Core Basic Training Pamphlet 10-5**, a deep dive into mastering the one-arm push-up.** Os blends a rich and diverse background in movement: he's a former contemporary dancer who toured internationally, a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS), and a credentialed expert in both Z-Health and functional gait analysis. His training approach fuses the art and science of performance—combining hard-earned grit with cutting-edge neuroscience, and traditional strength methods with precision mobility and assessment tools. At the heart of Os's work is a passion for helping others unlock their potential, no matter their age or ability. He has taught and led more than 20 official StrongFirst workshops and certification events, and regularly collaborates on podcast, print, and video content for educational platforms. His approach is deeply client-centered, always focused on real-life application, long-term durability, and purposeful, personalized progress. Os earned his bachelor's degree from San Diego State University and begins his Master's in Kinesiology at Point Loma Nazarene University in the fall of 2025. His journey—shaped by military service, cultural pride, academic drive, and a lifetime of movement—is a testament to resilience and reinvention. From the powerlifting platform to the dance stage, he brings a unique perspective to every room he enters. His mission is to empower others to move better, live stronger, and stay in the game—for life. Ways to connect with Osvaldo**:** Link to Os' website, The Iron Core Way https://www.ironcoreway.com/ Link to Os' StrongFirst Instructor profile https://www.strongfirst.com/instructors/united-states/osvaldo-aponte.0013700000NZVD3AAP/ Link to Os' book on the Strong and Fit Website https://strongandfit.com/collections/daily-deal/products/iron-core-and-the-four-chambers-by-os-aponte Link to Os' Eventbrite workshop schedule https://www.eventbrite.com/o/osvaldo-aponte-58809282353 Link to New York Times Article https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/12/well/move/kettlebells-weight-training.html?smid=url-share About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

In episode 294 of iCantCU, I kick off 2026 by connecting a few things that don't seem related at first: Chinese food on Christmas, audio description on TV and movies, and what happens when accessibility goes mainstream. I share what the holidays look like in our house—with Hanukkah, Christmas, New Year's, and both kids' birthdays packed into a few short weeks—along with stories about a cloth menorah, cookie decorating that didn't go quite as planned, baking classes at Sur La Table, and Ziggy's absolute obsession with his Christmas pickles. From there, I get to the bigger point. Just like Chinese restaurants on Christmas, audio description works best when more people discover it—and start using it. I talk about how audio description helps blind viewers while also benefiting sighted people who want to follow shows without watching a screen. The episode wraps with thoughts on where accessibility is improving, where it still falls short, and what I'm looking ahead to in a busy start to the new year. Show notes at https://www.iCantCU.com/294    Links Mentioned Product links are affiliate links so that I may earn a commission. Ray-Ban Meta Glasses, Wayfarer: https://amzn.to/42EU0Sy Like the sunglasses Jane bought for me? https://amzn.to/4oGWLfx Another big dog toy that may be on Ziggy's list: https://amzn.to/4nWcib1 Federation Focus on the NFB of PA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa I edit the show with Descript and love it!: https://www.iCantCU.com/descript/ Be My Eyes app (free): https://www.bemyeyes.com/  Seeing AI app (free): https://www.seeingai.com/  That Real Blind Tech Show ep 195: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-195-ces-26-hard-tech-and-soft-balls/id1526258077?i=1000744724124 Index of That Real Blind Tech Show episodes: https://www.icantcu.com/trbts/  Watch iCantCU episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU Support iCantCU When shopping at Amazon, I would appreciate it if you clicked on this link to make your purchases: https://www.iCantCU.com/amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associate Program and earn commissions on qualifying purchases. The best part is, you don't pay extra for doing this! White Canes Connect Podcast Episode 148 In episode 148 of White Canes Connect, we share the powerful General Sessions remarks of David DeNotaris from the 2025 National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania State Convention in Harrisburg. Speaking from a lifetime of experience, David reflects on growing up with Braille, discovering the Federation, and the profound influence of Dr. Kenneth Jernigan on his understanding of blindness and self-respect. Through humor and deeply personal stories, he explores what it truly means to believe that it is respectable to be blind—and how that belief unlocks confidence in using Braille, mobility tools, technology, and advocacy skills without apology. Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/respect-belief-and-action-david-denotaris/id1592248709?i=1000744088201 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/3dHOmknIOgW9R7UEo69EH9 YouTube https://youtu.be/0oawJQcbBkA?si=Y7K-rnaBg6UQx50- White Canes Connect Website https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/148/      My Podcast Gear Here is all my gear and links to it on Amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associates Program and earn a commission on qualifying purchases. Zoom Podtrak P4: https://amzn.to/33Ymjkt Zoom ZDM Mic & Headphone Pack: https://amzn.to/33vLn2s Zoom H1n Recorder: https://amzn.to/3zBxJ9O  Gator Frameworks Desk Mounted Boom Arm: https://amzn.to/3AjJuBK Shure SM58 S Mic: https://amzn.to/3JOzofg  Sony ZV-E10 camera : https://amzn.to/4fFBSxM  GoPro Hero 11 Black: https://amzn.to/3SKI7WX Rode Video Micro (used on GoPro): https://amzn.to/4kVMJWI Sennheiser Headset (1st 162 episodes): https://amzn.to/3fM0Hu0  Follow iCantCU on your favorite podcast directory! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/icantcu-podcast/id1445801370/  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nck2D5HgD9ckSaUQaWwW2  Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/iCantCU-Podcast-Podcast/B08JJM26BT  IHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-icantcu-podcast-31157111/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU   Connect on Social Media Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidbenj Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidbenj Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidbenj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbenj Are You or Do You Know A Blind Boss? If you or someone you know is crushing it in their field and is also blind, I want to hear from you! Call me at (646) 926-6350 and leave a message. Please include your name and town, and tell me who the Blind Boss is and why I need to have them on an upcoming episode. You can also email the show at iCantCUPodcast@gmail.com.

Laughter may be one of the most powerful tools we have for navigating stress, burnout, and the weight of modern life. In this conversation, I had the pleasure of sitting down once again with Sir James Gray Robinson to explore why humor, self-awareness, and gratitude matter far more than most of us realize. James and I talk about how easily we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves, how that loss feeds stress and burnout, and why taking life too seriously often does more harm than good. Along the way, we reflect on comedy, culture, trauma, and the simple truth that being able to laugh can shift perspective faster than almost anything else. James also shares what he has learned from years of coaching high-stress professionals, especially lawyers, about how laughter resets the nervous system and opens the door to better problem solving. We talk about gratitude as a powerful antidote to fear and anger, the role artificial intelligence can play as a daily tool for perspective, and how self-reflection helps us separate reality from the stories our minds create. We even explore James's work with an ancient royal order dedicated to service and philanthropy. I believe you will find this conversation thoughtful, grounding, and surprisingly uplifting, because at its core, it reminds us that joy, humor, and connection are not luxuries. They are essential to living an unstoppable life. Highlights: 00:59 – Learn why losing the ability to laugh at yourself creates stress and emotional rigidity.04:26 – Understand the difference between witty humor and humor that harms rather than heals.11:03 – Discover how laughter resets the nervous system and interrupts burnout patterns.15:35 – Learn why gratitude is one of the strongest tools for overcoming fear and anger.16:16 – Hear how artificial intelligence can be used as a daily tool to shift perspective and invite joy.35:19 – Understand how burnout often begins with internal stories that distort reality and fuel stress. About the Guest: Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq. is an award winning third-generation trial attorney who specialized in family law and civil litigation for 27 years in his native North Carolina. Burned out, Sir James quit in 2004 and has spent the next 20 years doing extensive research and innovative training to help others facing burnout and personal crises to heal. He has taught wellness, transformation, and mindfulness internationally to thousands of private clients, businesses, and associations. As a licensed attorney, he is focused on helping lawyers, professionals, entrepreneurs, employers, and parents facing stress, anxiety, addiction, depression, exhaustion, and burnout. Sir James is a highly respected speaker, writer, TV personality, mentor, consultant, mastermind, and spiritual leader/healer who is committed to healing the planet. He possesses over 30 certifications and degrees in law, healing, and coaching, as well as hundreds of hours of post-certification training in the fields of neuroscience, neurobiology, and neuroplasticity, epigenetics, mind-body-spirit medicine, and brain/heart integration. Having experienced multiple near-death experiences has given him a deeper connection with divinity and spiritual energy. Sir James regularly trains professionals, high-level executives, and businesspeople to hack their brains to turn stress into success. He is regularly invited to speak at ABA and state bar events about mental and emotional health. His work is frequently published in legal and personal growth magazines, including the ABA Journal, Attorneys-at-Work Magazine, and the Family Law Journal. Sir James has authored 13 books on personal growth and healing, including three targeting stressed professionals as well as over 100 articles published in national magazines. He has produced several training videos for attorneys, executives, entrepreneurs and high-level professionals. Sir James has generously endowed numerous projects around the world to help children, indigenous natives, orphans and the sick, including clean water projects in the Manu Rain Forest, Orphanages, Schools and Medical Clinics/Ambulances in India, Buddhist monks in Nepal, and schools in Kenya, Ecuador, and Puerto Rico. In addition to his extensive contributions, Sir James produced and starred in three documentaries that will be released in 2024, focusing on healing, mental and emotional health. The first, "Beyond Physical Matter," is available on several streaming platforms, including Amazon Prime. The trailer can be found at www.BeyondPhysicalMatter.com. The second, “Beyond the Mastermind Secret”, is scheduled for release in the fall of 2024. The trailer can be found at https://BeyondMastermindSecrets.com/. The third, “Beyond Physical Life” is scheduled for release at the end of 2024. The trailer can be found at https://beyondphysicallife.com/. He has formed an entertainment media production company known as Beyond Entertainment Global, LLC, and is currently producing feature length films and other media. In recognition of his outstanding work and philanthropy, Sir James was recently knighted by the Royal Order of Constantine the Great and Saint Helen. In addition, Sir James won the prestigious International Impact Book Award for his new book “Thriving in the Legal Arena: The Ultimate Lawyer's Guide for Transforming Stress into Success”. Several of his other books have won international book awards as well. Sir James was recently awarded the President's Lifetime Achievement Award by President Joe Biden for his outstanding service to his community, country and the world. He will be awarded the prestigious International Humanitarian Award known as Men with Hearts, in London, England in the fall of 2024, as well as Man of the Year and Couple of the year with his wife, Linda Giangreco. Sir James has a wide variety of work/life experiences, including restauranteur, cattle rancher, horse trainer, substance abuse counselor, treatment center director, energy healer, bodyguard, legal counselor for several international spiritual organizations, golfer and marathon runner. He graduated from R.J. Reynolds High School in 1971, Davidson College in 1975 and Wake Forest University School of Law in 1978. Ways to connect with Sir James**:** FB - https://www.facebook.com/sirjamesgrayrobinson  IG - https://www.instagram.com/sirjamesgrayrobinson/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@sirjamesgrayrobinson?_t=8hOuSCTDAw4&_r=1 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@JamesGrayRobinson LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gray-robinson-/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:17 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. And we're doing something today we haven't done too often, but we've done it a few times. We are having a second conversation with James Gray Robinson, actually, sir, James Gray Robinson, and we're going to talk about that part of it today we did last time, but I'm going to start actually a little bit different way. You and I were just talking about humor. We were talking about Mel Brooks, because I, when you came into the to the room, I said, What in the wide, wide world of sports is it going on here, which is a very famous line from Blazing Saddles. And you pointed out that that movie probably couldn't be made today, and I agree. But why do you think that is Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  02:10 I think that we've become so disenchanted with ourselves that everything's offensive now, I think back when we and when I grew up in the 50s and 60s, people had so many really, you know, life threatening things to think about, like atomic war and, you know, it just seems like people have shifted their consciousness away from having a good time to simply having to be right all the time. And so we've lost the ability to laugh at ourselves. I mean, one of my favorite lines is, if you think Talk is cheap, you've never talked to a lawyer. And the thing is, is that I'm a lawyer, and I find that incredibly funny, yeah, because if you can't laugh at yourself, then you really are going to struggle in life, because a lot of times, things don't work out the way that we anticipated or wanted them to. And there's a couple of different ways that we can react to that or respond to that. There's a I found that people are losing the ability to take responsibility for themselves and that they blame everything on everybody else. We're raising a nation of victims, and victims are not going to laugh at anything. So what we, I think, what we have to do is we have to start teaching our children how to have a sense of humor. If something doesn't happen the just the way we want it to, then laugh at it. It doesn't have to, you know, unless it's pain, you know, if it's physically abusive or something, then you know. But the thing is, we're trying to helicopter parent everything, and we all get so upset when somebody says something off the cuff or maybe without fully thinking through what they're saying. So it's, it's just unfortunate that there are many, many things in life I think could be avoided with just a good chuckle and go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, you know, like if somebody said to me, you're. Eyes on wrong I'd laugh because it would what difference does it make? But what my tile looks like? Yeah, and I would just laugh, and I would laugh at me, and I would laugh at them, because somebody thought that there was something wrong with that, yeah. Michael Hingson  05:21 Well, what about people like Don Rickles? You know, who, who was always known for insulting everyone and being an obnoxious character. What do you think about him? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  05:36 I you know the thing is, is that he was offensive, but he wasn't, what's the word? I would say he he wasn't profane, because he never cursed at anybody. You know, I've watched a couple of roasts. You know, they call them roast, right? They get a bunch of people together, and they make fun of somebody. And back in the day, when Don Rickles and Johnny Carson, Milton, burl, rich, little even, what couple of committee is, I can't think of, but they were extremely witty, and they were perhaps offensive, but they weren't necessarily insulting to the point where you It's not Funny. And I think we've got and we've gone to the point where we now are seeing these roasts. And I thought I saw Tom Brady's roast. Actually paid to watch it, and it was the most profane, you know, unfunny, hurtful, hour and a half I think I've ever watched, and it just I didn't smile once. I just was wincing the whole way through, wondering why people think that sort of nonsense is funny. Michael Hingson  07:19 Well, I asked about Don Rickles, because I saw an interview with him on the Donahue show, when Phil Donahue had his TV show, one of the things. And after he said this, I thought about it, and of course, never really was able to see in person, but I believed him. Don rickel said, Look, I never pick on someone if I think they're going to be offended. He said, If I see somebody in the audience and start picking on them and it looks like they're taking offense or they're getting angry about it, I won't pick on them anymore. And he said I might even go talk with them later, but he said I won't pick on them anymore. And I thought about that, he said, I will never there are lines I won't cross, which is some of what you just said. But he really was absolutely adamant about the fact that he didn't really want to insult people. He wanted people to have fun, so he always looked for people in the audience who would laugh at what he had to say and how he and how he abused them and so on. He said those are the people that he really liked to to interact with because they weren't taking offense, which I thought was a very intuitive and interesting concept on his part. And if you really want to talk about a comedian who was never profane no matter what he did or happened to him, later, think about Bill Cosby, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  08:49 yeah, and or Red Skelton, or Red Skelton, yeah, that was and always, he would always end up with God Bless. And the thing that amazes me about today's comedy is how much violence. There's a subtle undercurrent of violence under all of their humor. And it's, you know, they're kind of like laughing at somebody who is hurt or is not as intelligent as the comedian thinks he is. Or, you know, they're making fun of stuff just to be hurtful. And it's not, you know, they've lost the connection between being taken taking fun, making fun of somebody and being hurtful. And I just amazed when I see a lot of comedians today. I mean, there's lots of very witty, very intelligent, grand guffaw producing comedy out. There. And it's, there's some, they're very, very talented comedians out there, but then there are the other people that want to drag you through the Michael Hingson  10:07 mud, yeah? And it's all shock. It's all shock, yeah, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  10:12 and intentionally offend you to, I guess it's some kind of power play, but it's simple. You know, people, I think that people actually are so traumatized that they they think it's funny when somebody traumatizes somebody else. Michael Hingson  10:34 Well, I Oh, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  10:35 go on. No, go right ahead. Michael Hingson  10:38 I I never got to see Don Rickles live, although I would have loved to, and I would love to have paid the money to sit in the front row, hopefully, hoping that he would pick on me so I could jump up and say, Yeah, I saw you once on TV. I took one look at you and haven't been able to see since. What do you think about that? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  11:02 Never that would be appropriate, yeah? I mean, because he'd love it, you're making fun, yeah, you're making fun of him, and you're making fun of yourself. And that's what I call self depreciating humor. He where the jokes, yeah, the joke really is about you. It's not about him, yeah, and it's in it, so it's people probably wouldn't take offense to that. But when people sit there, you know, start poking fun at how people look or what they their educational level, or their, you know, cultural background is I, I just don't get that. I mean, it's and I grieve that we're turning into bullies. Well, you know, and it's, it's unfortunate you Michael Hingson  11:52 you've dealt a lot, especially over the last 20 years, with burnout and things like that. Do you think that what's happening in in society based on what you're talking about, with the lack of humor, without self deprecating environments and all that. Do you think that's because it's stressful, contributing to burnout? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  12:14 Yes, I think, well, we again, we take ourselves way too seriously. The one thing that I've noticed, especially with my clients, is when I can get them to laugh, they start to take a different perspective of their life. But when they think everything that they're what I call they're stuck in Warrior mode. There's, you know, we have a, don't know if we talked about this last time, but we have a nervous system that goes one or two ways. It either goes to fight or flight, called the sympathetic nervous system, where you know you're reacting to everything in a negative way, because it's a matter of survival, or we go to the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the fun part of our psyche, and we can enjoy ourselves, but everybody is so scared of something there that they the body cannot stand That level of stress for years. I mean, that's what burnout is, and it it tears your body apart until it actually turns off. And that's what happens when you burn out. We used to call it nervous breakdown, but, you know now it's burnout. But the point is, is you just wear yourself out because you don't have anything that will break the constant stream of stress, and one of the best ways that you can handle stress is to laugh. Laugh at yourself, laugh at something, a joke, laugh at whatever you find stressful, because it breaks that autonomic nervous system response. And if you can reset yourself every now and then that you know, one of the ways I teach people how to deal with stress is to research jokes. Go buy a good joke book, and you can go and find enough. You know, all you need is a couple of jokes to start the day, and you're going to be in a much better frame of mind going to work or dealing with whatever you have to deal with. If you've laughed at least once before you go to work, because that that engages your parasympathetic. I call it the guru. And you can deal with adversity. You can deal with problems. You can actually problem solve. You. And but when we're stressed out because we're afraid of what's going to happen, we're afraid of making mistakes, and we're afraid of what somebody's going to think of us, then we are just going to end up in a very bad place, mentally and emotionally and physically. So it's, you know, one of the things that you can do, as if you're having to deal with stress on a daily basis, is to just remember how to be grateful. I mean, I think that of all the emotions, gratitude is probably the most powerful one there is because it will overcome fear, it will overcome anger, it will overcome shame, it will overcome guilt, it will overcome envy, all the negative emotions cannot stand up to gratitude. And so if you can learn to be grateful, and especially grateful for the struggle, then you are going to be a happy camper, and you can probably learn to laugh, until you can be grateful though you're going to struggle. And that's we're not designed to do the struggling. We're designed to have fun. I mean, that's people always say, what are my purpose, you know? And why am I doing here? And I said, you only have two purposes in life. One is to breathe, and the other one is to laugh. Everything else is just a complication. So if you just remember that, if you can be grateful and laugh once in a while, you're going to be a lot better off than somebody that takes it too seriously, Michael Hingson  16:44 yeah, well, and you, you must see a lot of it, because I know you, you do a lot of coaching and working with especially lawyers, which is a very stressful situation, especially people who are truly dedicated to the Law and who look at it in the right way, there must be a lot of stress. How do you get them to relax? I like the idea of getting a joke book. I think that's that's cute, and I think that that makes a lot of sense. But in but in general, how do you get people to laugh and to do it as a habit. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  17:24 Well, I've been doing this for 20 years, so my answer 20 years ago is probably a little different than the answer I have now. Artificial Intelligence is my friend, because I can, I can do anything with artificial intelligence. And one of the best ways I, you know, I program my artificial intelligence to to respond, to react and to know who I am. I put, I put all of my books onto artificial intelligence. Every time I write an article, I put it in there. I'm always talking to it. I'm always saying, Well, this is the way I feel about this. This is the way I feel about that. This is what this is funny to me. This something happened to me today that is was really funny. And then I tell it what was funny. And I would program this thing. So the next, when I wake up in the morning, I can just ask it tell me something that'll make me laugh, and it always has something that will make me laugh. And so because it can, not only does it know what I fed into it, it knows everything that's on the internet, right? And so you can, you can get a, you know, something funny, something to start your day, make me glad to be alive, you know, tell me something that'll make me grateful. All those things. It'll, just in a millisecond, it'll be on your screen, yeah. And so it's, that's a tool we obviously didn't have even a year ago, but 20 years ago, it was a little bit more depth, a little bit more effort to find these things. But you could, you could do that. I mean, we did have the internet 20 years ago, and so we, we could go looking and go searching for funny stuff. But it's not as easy as is artificial intelligence, so you know. And if you I'll tell you one thing, it's been a real tool that has been very useful for me, because sometimes if I'm not sure what I should say, my old my old motto was, if you don't know what to say, shut up. But now I asked, I asked, and I'm not sure what, how I should respond to this. What do you suggest? And it'll come up with some. Give me five things that I could say. Michael Hingson  19:59 Does it do? Will tell you, does it ever tell you should just shut up? Just checking yes, yes. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  20:04 Okay, good, good for you. Don't say any. Don't say anything, you fool. But the point is, is that it's got, you know, every book that's ever been written about psychology in its database, so you can find things that would make you sound wise and profound. And I use it all the time to figure out what to say, or to how a better way to say something is Yeah, and that way I've managed to stay pretty much out of trouble by and, you know, it's like having a friend who you could ask, What should I say? And they would come back with a couple of answers that you know, then you can just decide yourself which one you should use, right? Michael Hingson  20:57 And you may, and you may, in addition, tweak it which which makes sense, because AI is, is a tool, and I, I am not sure that it is going to ever develop truly to the point where it, if you will, wakes up and and becomes its own true intelligence, Skynet Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  21:24 on all the Terminator series, Michael Hingson  21:27 or or in Robert heinleins, the Moon is a Harsh Mistress. The computer woke up. It helped as a still my favorite science fiction book, and it was, if you've never read it, it's a story about the the moon in 2076 which had been colonized and was being run by the lunar authority back on Earth, it had no clue about anything. And so in 2076 the moon revolted, and the computer and the computer helped. So on July 4, 2076 it was a great movie or a great book. I'd love to see it dramatized. If somebody would do it the right way, I think it'd make a great radio series. But haven't done it yet. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  22:14 Well, Robert Highland is a genius. No doubt about that, Stranger in a Strange Land was big in my developmental years, yeah, and Michael Hingson  22:26 that was the book that came out right after the Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I still think the moon and harsh mistress is even a better book than Stranger in a Strange Land. But Stranger in a Strange Land really did catch on and and rightfully so. It was, it was very clever. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  22:42 Well, most people, I mean, you know, clean humor is a good place to start, yeah, because I think that all of the profanity that comedians rely on to shock people. And, you know, there are two ways that we have the laugh response one is, is that it shocks you in the sense that it makes you afraid, because it seems like a attack on you. It's a defensive mechanism that we have. It's not even if it's not funny, we will laugh, because that's our body's way of dealing with something that's really traumatic. The other way is when we something strikes us as funny because it's witty or clever, and that is more of a that's a less stressful response. And can we, we can laugh, and it's a more of a genuine response than one where we're basically traumatized, right? And I think that, and with everything else, is who? Who do you hang around? Who is your tribe? Who do you? Somebody was somebody said, some psychologist said, you know, show me 10 of your friends and I'll tell you exactly what your problem is, because the people you hang around will mirror what's going on in your interior landscape. And if you've got friends who are problematic, that means that there's some things on your psyche that you need to take a look at. And you know that, and it's especially people who have been traumatized early in life. Their coping mechanisms and their judgment is not so good, right? So they have to take a step back and look at well, are these people helping me? Are they hurting me? Because if you notice, a lot of traumatized people will surround themselves with traumatized people, and all they do is whip themselves in the lather. Are every day, and they get so melodramatic, and they get so upset about everything that's going on in life, they can't find any sense of humor or any sense of joy, yeah, and it's until they let go of those, those trauma responses they're they're pretty much in a hat, in a self repeating habit that is not going to be healthy. Michael Hingson  25:29 And I think you're absolutely right. It is very much about joy. And we, we should. We should find ways to be joyful and feel joy, and, of course, laugh and not take life so seriously. Unfortunately, there's so much going on today with people who clearly have no sense of humor, or at least they never exhibit it, that it tends to really be a problem. And unfortunately, I think we're all learning some really bad habits, or many of us are learning some very bad habits because of that. And I don't know what's going to break that cycle, but the cycle is going to have to break at some point. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  26:14 It will, unfortunately, a lot of times it takes a revolution, yeah, in order to replace old, unhealthy thought patterns with better thought patterns. You know, I'm reminded of the old saying that when an idiot tries to teach another idiot, you end up with two idiots. So you you have to be careful about who you're taking advice from, right? And so if, especially you know my my advice to anybody that's struggling and suffering is turn off your phone and turn off your TV, and if you know how to read, go read a book, because when you can get into a period of calm, quiet reflection, you're going to be able to make More sense out of what's going on in your life, and especially if you're reading a book that will explain to you the best way to deal with challenges, right? But just or just read a funny book, you know, something you know I find sarcasm and cleverness, extremely funny. So I love books like Forrest Gump, who who take extreme examples and turns them into funny scenarios, and they did a good Michael Hingson  28:01 job making that into a movie too. I thought, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  28:05 I mean, I tell you, I forget who the director was, but they were brilliant because they were able to spin a story that was honest. But it wasn't offensive, and you could laugh because of all of forests characteristics and everything else, but it was presented in the way that it wasn't, you know? It wasn't being mean, right? And it wasn't, being unkind, and so it was just a story of a man who ended up being a success, and it was more through Providence than anything else. You know, I love the Marx Brothers, oh, sure, because they always had a way of making fun of each other and making fun of other people and making fun of themselves that was truly humorous. And it was more sight gags. It was more, you know, one liners, and it wasn't by being mean to anybody. It was as about being very aware of what was going on. Michael Hingson  29:25 I'm trying to remember which movie it was. I think it was duck soup. Somebody fell into the water and she yelled, throw me a lifesaver. And so somebody threw her a lifesaver. That is a candy. Yeah, it's just so clever. It was clever. But, you know, one of the things that I enjoy is old radio shows, radios from the shows from the 30s, 40s and 50s, and the humor, again, was respectful of. Hmm, and they could pick on people to a degree, but it was never in a in a mean way, but just the humor was always so clever, and so I would, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  30:14 I would listen George and Gracie Allen, George, Jack Benny, Michael Hingson  30:19 Phil Harris, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  30:21 and you was his name, Jackie Gleason, Michael Hingson  30:29 Amos and Andy. And of course, people today have decided Amos and Andy are offensive because they say it's all about blacks, and you're insulting black people. If anybody would go back and look in history, the reality is that Amos and Andy probably was one of the most well, it was one of the most popular shows on radio to the point where, if you were in a movie theater on Saturday afternoon watching a movie, they would stop it when Amos and Andy came on and play the show, and it didn't matter what the color of your skin was. In fact, I asked an Amos and Andy expert one time, when did they stop referring to themselves as black or dark? And the reason I asked that is because the first time I was exposed to Amos and Andy was actually the Amos and Andy TV shows, and I didn't know they were black, and I learned later that they were taken off the air when people started becoming offended because there were two black people. But I asked this, this lady about Amos and Andy, and when did they stop referring to themselves as black? And she said, Well, probably about the last time that she was aware of where there was a reference to it was 1937 so for many, many years, if you decided that their voices were black people, then, then you did, but they didn't talk about black or white or anything else. And and so it was. It was a very interesting show. And one guy usually was trying to con the other one and the other, well, king fish would con Andy, who usually fell for it. But gee, how many shows with white people do we see the same thing. You know? The reality is that it was a very funny show by any standard. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  32:26 Well, Sanford and sons, Sanford, same thing. I mean, that humor was, it was cutting you know, anytime you get on a cutting edge type of program, you know, it's inevitable that somebody's going to take offense. But I always laughed out loud. I watched that show, and it wasn't because they were demeaning anybody. It was just watching people trying to get by and using their wits. And a lot of times it was, it was comical because it wasn't very clever, but it was just they were doing the best they could to make a living. They were doing the best they could to live in their society. And I always admired that. I mean, they never, and they were able to, I guess, touch on the aspect of racial inequality without burning the house down. And it was like always admired them. You know, Sanford and sons, the Jeffersons, all of those shows, how about all the family? If you want to talk all in the family too well they they were just, you could switch one script with the other because it was more about human beings being human than it was about what the color of your skin was, yeah. So, you know, I would invite anybody who is offended by something to really ask yourself, what is it that offends you? Because there's always something in your consciousness that you find offensive. You would never be offended by anything if you unless you found something within yourself that's offensive, whether because and it's called the psychological term is called projection. You're projecting on what you're perceiving, and it's called bias. We all have conclusions. We all have prejudice. We all have judgments. Our brain is built that way to keep us alive, and so we're always interpreting data and perceptions to see if there's any threat out there, and if, when we start taking words as threatening, then we've got a problem. Yep, and. But because things like comedy and humor shouldn't offend anybody, but because you believe in something that makes that offensive, that's why you're offended. And so it's really as useful to people to really think about what is it that I believe that makes that offensive? Because most of the time you will find that whatever it is that you believe may not be true, and it's just something that some kind of conclusion you've drawn because of your experiences, or what you've been taught or what you've witnessed that's given you a wrong idea about something. So I invite anybody who is mad or angry that they look and see what is that belief that is making you angry? Michael Hingson  35:59 Yeah, it gets back to self analysis. It gets back to looking at yourself, which is something that most of us haven't really learned a lot about how to do. How. How did you pick up all these, these kind of nuggets of wisdom and so on. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  36:19 Well, when I burn, when I had my nervous breakdown back in 2004 I quit practicing law for a while because I couldn't bear the thought of going into my office and fighting another day of the battles that trial lawyers always fight. Now I won't say that transactional lawyers don't have battles, but Trial Lawyers end up probably picking a few fights on their own that, you know, they didn't really need to go there, but they do because, you know, Trial Lawyers have a, You know, a talent for arguing they have it's exciting to most of them, and they love to fight. And so when? But eventually, if you don't know how to manage it, it will, yes, the key wear you down. Yeah. So I got out of the law business for a while, and instead, I decided I wanted to go find out. Number one, why did I burn out? And number two, how to heal it. And so I went and studied with a number of energy healers who were very, very conscious people. They were very, very aware. You might even say they were enlightened, but it was they were always teaching me and always telling me about whatever I'm experiencing on the outside is just a reflection of what's on the inside. And so it's not so much about somebody being right or somebody being wrong. It's just the world is a mirror to whatever is going on inside between our ears. Yeah, and it's not because it's we're seeing something that's not there, or we're not seeing something that is there. It's just simply, how do we process that information that comes in through our sense organs and goes into our amygdala, then the hippocampus and then to the rest of our brain to try to figure out and but it's well documented that the brain will see whatever the brain wants to See, and a lot of times it's not what the eyes see, because there are lots of experiments you can take with graphics and other things that are illusory. Because, you know, you can see these graphs or prints that look like a spiral that's going around and is moving, but it's actually circles. But the way our brain puts things together, it makes it move. And another way is sounds. If you don't know what a sound is? Your brain is going to make up a story about that sound. And it could be either That's the sound of a frog, or it could be the sound of a somebody getting attacked. It could be the sound of whatever your brain it has to put a label on it, because that's the way the brain has been wired over our couple of hundreds of 1000s of years of evolution. That's how we manage to stay alive, because we make up a story about stuff, and if we're accurate, we live. If we're not accurate, we don't. Yeah, so the a lot of people are very good at making up stories in their head about what they're seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, whatever, because a lot of lot of smells will have psychological responses in our brain. So you know the smell of baby's milk or the smell of mown grass, or, you know smell of something rank, you always will have an instant story about what you just smell. And so when I would spend long periods of time thinking about these things, contemplating them, trying to figure out, well, what does that mean for me? I mean, how does that? How will it looking at this change my life? And basically, what I learned is is that the more objective you can be, the less you make up stories about stuff, the more successful you can be, and the more happy you'll be. Because, for example, there's a term called Mind reading, where people will be listening to somebody talking, and in the back of their mind, they're making up a story about what that person means, or they're making up a story about, well, where is this guy going with this? And it's, you know, it's, it's the opposite of listening, because when listening, you're focusing on the words you're hearing, yes, and then when it's your turn to talk, you can respond appropriately, but most people are thinking while they're hearing and it totally colors their experience, because if they think that this person doesn't like them, then they're going to interpret whatever is being said a certain way. If they think that person does like them, then they will interpret it a completely different way. So it's fascinating to me how people can get the wrong idea about things, because it just is a story that their mind made up to try to explain to them why they're experiencing what they're experiencing. Michael Hingson  42:25 That's why I like to really say that I've learned so much from dogs, because dogs don't do it that way. And as I tell people, dogs don't trust unconditionally. They love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally, but dogs are open to trust, and they're looking for reasons to trust, and they also, by definition, tend to be more objective, and they react to how we react and how we behave and and I think there's so much to be learned by truly taking the time to observe a dog and how they interact with you and how you interact with them, and that's going to make a big difference in how they behave. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  43:11 Well, you could definitely see a difference in the dog's behavior if they've been traumatized. Michael Hingson  43:16 Oh, sure, that's a different story altogether. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  43:19 Yeah, I agree that dogs are extremely innocent. You know, they don't have an agenda. They just want to be loved, and they would, they want to love Michael Hingson  43:31 and they want to know the rules, and they then they're looking to us to tell them what we expect. And there are ways to communicate that too, yes. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  43:41 And you know you all have to is give as a great example of how we should treat each other. Is all you have to do is, you know, a dog will forgive you eventually. And if you're kind to a dog. A dog will just give his entire being to you. Yeah, and it because they don't have any Guile, they don't have any hidden agendas. They just want to be you know, they want to eat. They want to be warm. They want to have fun. They do want to have fun, and so if you treat them timely, you will have a friend for life. Michael Hingson  44:29 Yep, we adopted a dog. We cared for it for a while. It was a geriatric dog at Guide Dogs for the Blind who had apparently had never worked as a guide dog, and she had been mistreated and then sent back to Guide Dogs for the Blind. She was 12. The school was convinced she was totally deaf because she wouldn't react to anything. They dropped a Webster's Dictionary next to her, and she didn't react. But we took her and we started working with her, and. It took several months before she would even take a walk with Karen, and Karen in her, you know, in Karen's wheelchair, and this wonderful golden retriever walking next to her. But the more we worked with her, the more she came out of her shell. She wasn't deaf. I'm sure she was hard of hearing, but you could drop a dictionary and she'd react to it, and if you called her, she would come. But it is all about developing the relationship and showing that you care and they will react. And so she she lived with us for more than three years before she passed, but was a wonderful creature, and we were, we were blessed to have her. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  45:48 Well, go ahead. No, I was just going to comment that I've got three Pomeranians, and they run the place course. You know, it's there. It's amazing how a six pound dog can run your life, but Michael Hingson  46:03 you let them, but you still establish, but you still establish some rules and you know, but that's, that's, yeah, I have a cat who runs the place, but that's okay. Well, we have not talked about, and I do want to talk about it when I first started hearing from you, your emails were all signed, sir, James Gray Robinson, and I always was curious, and you eventually explained it to me. But why don't you tell us all about your title and and all of that? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  46:39 Well, since we last talked, I've had a promotion. Now I'm a baron, so it's Baron James Gray Robinson, Scottish, Baron of Cappadocia. But I belong to a royal order that's known as the Royal Order of Constantine, the great in st Helen, and it was established in 312, 312, 12. Ad, when Constantine, who was the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire, conquered the Western Roman Empire, who it was brother who was the emperor of the Western Roman Empire, and they can then he consolidated the eastern and the western empires. And it was that way until 14 153 when they were defeated by the Solomon Turks. So for 1100 over 1100 years Well, let me back up. The most important battle in that war between the two brothers was the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, which was in Rome and Constantine awarded, rewarded 50 knights, 50 warriors, soldiers who fought on that campaign and carried the day against much superior forces. And he rewarded them by making them knights and giving them land in Turkey, in an area that's known as Cappadocia. And this, if you know anything about Turkey, there's an area which is honeycombed with caves that have been dug out over the millennia, and it's kind of like some body was doing some renovation work, and they broke through the floor, and they went into a cave system that would have been hand dug, and it goes down 17 layers, and it could house 30,000 people. But that was, that was Cappadocia and Constantine the Great charged these warriors with the with the duty to protect the Christian church, because that's because Constantine had converted to Christianity. His mother, Helen, was one of the driving forces in the early Christian church. She's the one that decided to build a cathedral on top of the the nativity, the manger, which is actually a grotto in Bethlehem, I've been there. I spent Christmas Eve there one year. And so the Christianity was just a fledgling religion, and he charged these nights and all successive nights, with the obligation to protect the Christians and to protect the churches. And so a lot of people credit the royal order with advancing the Christian religion. So it's been around since 312 and it's the oldest peerage and a peerage. Is a group of royalty that have knights. They have royalty like Dukes and nobles and that sort of thing. But if you look at other orders that we're aware of, the Knights of Balta didn't get established until about 1200 ad the Knights of the Templar nights, similar thing. They didn't get established till about 1000 years after we did. So it's a very, very ancient, very traditional order that focuses on helping abused women and traffic children. We have, you know, we have a lot of, you know, compassion for those people in the world, and so we are actively supporting those people all over the world. And then on the other side, we have the knights, and we have the women, equivalent of that are called dames, and then we have the nobles who are like barons and other ranks that go all the way up to a prince who is actually related To the King of Spain. So it's been a interesting history, but we can try, we can directly trace our lineage all the way back to 312 and what the you know, we have a couple of reasons for existing, one being the charitable, but also to honor people who have been successful and have accomplished a lot for other people and who care about their fellow man and women, so that we accept Anyone in eight different categories, everywhere from Arts to athletics to entrepreneurship to medicine to heroics. We have a number of veterans that were credible. Have incredible stories. We have a lot of A listers, movie stars, professional athletes, that sort of thing. Also philanthropy. I got in for philanthropy because I've given a lot of money over my life to help people all over the world, and that's one reason why I was awarded the Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award. But we're a group of people. We just today started a Royal Academy of Arts and Sciences because we want to help people all over the world learn things like finances and you arts and crafts and trades and so that people who are oppressed cultures that are in third world countries will be able to learn a good earn a good living, raise their status in life, and then learn how to go on and help other people. So that's very exciting. We've got a lot of things going on with the royal order that are we're growing very rapidly, where somebody said we're 1700 year old startup, but it's, you know, we've gone through some regime changes where people have died and there weren't any heirs, so they've had to go laterally to find somebody to take over. And that's where we are now. You know, interestingly enough, my sons will inherit my title, so it's a true royalty kind of thing, where it passes down by inheritance. But you know, we don't, you know we're, we're hundreds of people in our thing. It's like 300 people in our order right now. We'd like that to be 100,000 times that because we do good work and we foster principles of charity, silvery and honesty, so that we're trying to change the culture around us to where people don't take offense in everything that they're in a society that supports each other and that people can feel safe knowing that there's they have a brother or sister that will support them. Michael Hingson  54:57 Definitely fascinating. I was not familiar with it at all. All until you and I check, yes. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  55:03 Well, it's amazing that me. I guess you have to be somewhat of a history buff. Yeah, and there, and there are lots of service organizations like the Masons and the Shriners and every all the animal ones, the Moose Lodge, the beavers and all these people are doing, you know, charitable work. But not not. Many of them have a royal heritage that goes back to 312 right? So, and we do dress up like knights from time to time, and ladies, and we have swords and we have robes, and we have big parties, and we have gala events, and where we induct more people into our order, and it's all great fun, and it's, you know, and we raise money for charity. So it's a win, win situation. Cool, and it doesn't hurt having Baron on your resume. Michael Hingson  56:08 No, I am sure it doesn't well. I want to thank you for explaining that, and I want to thank you for being here again. This has been a lot of fun, and I'm glad that we had a chance to really talk about humor, which, which is more important, I think, than a lot of people realize. And again, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  56:31 My website is James Gray robinson.com Michael Hingson  56:36 There you go. Easy to spell, easy to get to. So I hope people will do that. And again, I hope that you all enjoyed today, and that you will let me know that you enjoyed it. Please feel free to email me at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, please give us a five star rating. Go off and read history and learn about the royal order. I think that's probably relevant and important to do as well. And again, if anyone knows anyone who ought to be a guest on the podcast, please let us know. Introduce us. Give us a rating of five stars wherever you're listening. And again, James, I just want to thank you for being here. Excuse me, sir. James. Barron, James, really appreciate you being here, and we'll have to do it again. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  57:24 Well, Michael, my hat's off to you. I think you're doing amazing work. I think you're helping a lot of people. You have a great podcast I've gone on your website or your YouTube, and it's a lot of fun. And I think you're doing a great service for people. Michael Hingson  57:45 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

We're keepin' it hyper-local this week on Sustainability Now! Your host, Justin Mog, is in conversation with two community radio friends, Sharon Scott, General Manager & Sean Selby, Audio Carpenter, from our sister station here in Louisville, WXOX ARTxFM 97.1 FM and https://artxfm.com. These folks are extremely knowledgable about people-powered radio and, in fact, Sharon wrote a book about it called “Low Power FM for Dummies” that just came out in 2023. Learn all about the community radio and experimental radio scene right here in Louisville and around the country, through their work with the Grassroots Radio Conference and the National Federation of Community Broadcasters. Learn how you can get involved and don't miss their 10th Birthday Party coming up on Valentine's Day 2026! As always, our feature is followed by your community action calendar for the week, so get your calendars out and get ready to take action for sustainability NOW! Sustainability Now! is hosted by Dr. Justin Mog and airs on Forward Radio, 106.5fm, WFMP-LP Louisville, every Monday at 6pm and repeats Tuesdays at 12am and 10am. Find us at https://forwardradio.org The music in this podcast is courtesy of the local band Appalatin and is used by permission. Explore their delightful music at https://appalatin.com

I really enjoyed this conversation with Natalie and her mother, Mary, because it reminded me how an unstoppable mindset is often built quietly, over time, through creativity, learning, and persistence. Together, they share what it has been like to navigate life across generations while facing learning disabilities, health challenges, workplace adversity, and the constant need to adapt. We talk about Natalie's journey with attention deficit disorder and anxiety, how creative outlets like baking, art, music, and storytelling helped her find focus and confidence, and why returning to school later in life became an act of self-trust rather than fear. Mary's story adds another powerful layer. She reflects on growing up with low self-esteem, navigating male-dominated workplaces, and dealing with sexual harassment long before there were systems in place to address it. As a mother, artist, and professional, she shares what it means to keep moving forward while supporting her daughter's growth. Throughout our conversation, we explore accessibility, creative entrepreneurship, lifelong learning, and why accommodations and understanding still matter. I believe you will find this episode both honest and encouraging, especially if your own path has been anything but linear. Highlights: 00:00 – Hear how creativity and resilience shaped an unstoppable mindset across two generations.08:35 – Learn how attention deficit disorder and anxiety changed the way focus, learning, and confidence developed.14:33 – Discover why stepping away from a demanding career can open the door to new growth.21:23 – Understand how workplace sexual harassment leaves lasting effects long after it happens.35:16 – See why protecting and celebrating local artists became a personal mission.59:09 – Learn why accessibility, accommodations, and empathy still matter in everyday life. About the Guest: Mary Dunn: Mary was born and raised in Pittsburgh, PA.  She was the only child of Norman and Lucille Rump.  At a young age, she liked to draw and as she grew older she enjoyed painting.  Her first painting was in oil and Mary was eleven years old.  However, because of the expense of art supplies, it was difficult to pursue a continuous endeavor in that particular form of art. While in high school, nothing really exciting happened as Mary was on the shy side.  She didn't belong to any groups and she really just wanted to graduate.  She graduated in the upper third of her class.  The most momentous part of the graduation was that Jeff Goldblum was also a graduate of her class. After graduation, Mary continued her education at The Pittsburgh Beauty Academy.  There she studied cosmetology and acquired a teacher license.  Although she never taught, she did work at a few different shops and also managed a shop.  These experiences helped Mary to become less shy. At that time, she met her first husband and had two children.  The marriage lasted for eleven years, and Mary was left with two small children.  Mary realized that her background in cosmetology would not be sufficient to raise two small children. She decided to go to college. With the support of her parents, she was accepted to attend Carlow College which is now Carlow University.  There she studied business and minored in theology.  She almost minored in art, but she needed one more credit to have that as a minor.  It was important for her to graduate in order to take care of her children.  While in college she belonged to several organizations.  One organization was an honor society called Delta Epsilon Sigma.  There she became an assistant chair of the organization.  The second organization was OASIS.  The organization was for non-tradition students.  She was vice-president during her senior year at Carlow.  She graduated in 1991 cum laude. After Carlow, she found her first employment opportunity working the Equitable Gas Company as a “Technical Fieldman”.  In this position, Mary would draft pipeline installations, work up costs for those installations, and fill in for supervisors when they went on vacations.  The job was difficult as it had usually been filled by men prior to her.  She was thrust into a job that she learned on her own and was subject to sexual harassment.   At that time, sexual harassment was not spoken about.  Mary didn't even realize that her peers were doing these things to her.  When she supervised union personnel, they were nice and valued her expertise.  However, when she returned to the office, more harassment continued. During that period, Mary decided to get a Master's Degree and enrolled in Carnegie Mellon's Heinz school of Public Management.  Her classes were very valuable as she learned about leadership, information systems, and marketing communications.  She graduated in 1996 with distinction.  Even though after she graduated from CMU, she continued to be sexual harassed.  She thought it might be a good idea to document the issues that made her position difficult.  She began to take notes on these incidents.  When she went to Human Resources, Mary was told that she should confront these people and tell them how she was feeling.  Mary couldn't do that because she felt it would make matters worse.  She applied for another position within the company.  In 1997, Mary became Program Manager of Energy Technology. While there, Mary developed and implemented a marketing plan to promote the use of alternative fuels.  As a Program Manager, Mary became a member of Pittsburgh Region Clean Cities which focused on alternative fueled vehicles.  During this time, she became a board member and focused on grants and wrote the Pittsburgh Region Clean Cities Newsletter. In 1999, her position was eliminated at Equitable.  In some ways, Mary was relieved about the elimination, but in other ways, it was the first time this ever happened to her.  She was now remarried and was concerned about her children. It was very scary. Thankfully, Mary was not unemployed for long.  She was hired at Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission as a Transportation Planner.  In this position she implemented a newly designed client tracking system of their products and services that helped to increase revenue. Additionally, she worked on a communication plan to implement branding and crisis communications. Eventually, Mary became a Marketing/Communication Specialist for Southwestern Pennsylvania Communications.  She was responsible for multi-media communications connected with branding. Mary designed logos for special projects, arranged special affairs, open houses and conferences.  She remained a part of Pittsburgh Region Clean Cities.   Mary additionally prepared presentations for executive management to deliver regarding the Joseph A. James Memorial Excellence in Local Government Achievement Award that recognizes a municipal government elected or appointed official in any local government, agency, or Council of Government for a lifetime of exemplary governance or management. Unfortunately, a new Executive was hired to replace the past Executive who had passed away.  Because of this, our whole department was eliminated. After Southwestern, Mary was hired as the Manager of Administration and Human Resources for THE PROGRAM for Female Offenders.  While at THE PROGRAM, Mary was responsible for maintaining the policies and daily operations in THE PROGRAM.  She implemented a cost effective foodservice program, introduced staff ID cards and implemented the Windows NT network server and computer security using a Digital Subscriber Line which is a type of high-speed internet connection that uses existing copper telephone lines to provide internet access to three PROGRAM facilities. Additionally, Mary implemented a human resource database for directors and managers that targeted specific employment information. Mary maintained safety equipment and introduced a safe evacuation plan for her building.. Unfortunately, because THE PROGRAM was grant based and when it was time to acquire grant money much of the previous grants were not renewed and Mary lost her job.  Mary eventually was hired by Roach and Associates, Inc. as a Project Manager. In this position, she negotiated oil and gas leases for exploration and productions of future gas wells in Clearfield County Pennsylvania.  During this time, Mary was responsible for permitting activities with the state, county and federal agencies as well as prepared training seminars to meet pipeline safety regulations as per U.S. Department of Transportation, CFR49, Parts 192-193. Mary authored documentation regarding pipeline regulations for various housing authorities and gas production companies within Pennsylvania, West Virginia and New York.  Besides working at Roach, Mary became part of the Transition Team for Peduto for Mayor of Pittsburgh.  That was such a memorable experience as my team focused on some of the issues facing the newly elected Mayor. It was nice to be a part of change. After working ten years at Roach and Associates, Inc., Mary decided it was time to retire in 2015. While working at Roach, Mary began dabbling in art again.  It had been quite a while since college and painting.  But she began to work in pastels and eventually more in the line of acrylic painting.  She became president of the Pittsburgh Pastel Artist League.  She no longer is president of that group.  Mary now belongs to the Pittsburgh Society of Artists where she was juried into the group.  She has had her work display at The Galaxie in Chicago,  Pittsburgh Technical Institute, Monroeville Library, Gallery Sim, Boxheart Gallery, Southern Allegheny Museum of Art, Saville Gallery in Maryland and various other galleries around Pittsburgh.  Her Study in Pastels won an Award of Excellence from Southern Allegheny Museum of Art.  Mary also came in second place in the Jerry's Artarama Faber Castel Contest. As time went on, Mary decided to focus more on her art work and began teaching students how to paint with Acrylic.  She also began a YouTube channel, Pittsburgh Artist Studio, where she gave free art lessons in acrylic to future artists around the country.  Unfortunately, Mary developed chronic back issues, and she had to give up her teaching.  She has had two back operations to alleviate the pain, but the second operation really didn't help.  It has caused more painful issues.  Therefore, it is difficult for her to paint a long period of time.  Currently, Mary devotes her time to illustrating her oldest daughter's books for children.  The books are a series about a little boy's adventures in his life.  Her books can be found on Amazon under her name “Nicole Leckenby”.  Additionally, she has illustrated a book for her younger daughter, Natalie Sebula, entitled “The Many Colors of Natalie”. In conclusion, now that Mary is retired, she has had more time to work on different art projects a little at a time.  She lives with her husband Steve and two dogs Grumpy and Sally.  She belongs to a group of wonderful women who review Bible Psalms each week. Since my minor in theology, I do enjoy reading various books on different religious subjects.  I am thankful for each day that I have and continue to work on the gifts God has given me. Natalie Belin: I am focusing on the arts. I am a creator with an ambitious attitude. I have no problem thinking BIG and dreaming BIG. While everyone else stays inside the lines, I boldly color outside the lines. Natalie resides near Pittsburgh, PA. She is 40 years old and loves adventures. Within these 40 years Natalie has experienced highs and lows. However, during the low points she was like water: adaptable, resilient, and always finding a way through. At toddler age, it was brought to the attention that she had high pressure in her eyes. However, nothing was really done about it because of her age. Typically, high pressures occur in older adults. After many years, one eye doctor took it seriously.  He prescribed eye drops and finally recommended a laser technique to open the tear ducts.  This alleviated the high pressure and since no eye drops have been needed. In 5 grade, she was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder. Her mother, Mary Dunn advocated for her until someone listened, and her teachers realized it was a real problem. Steps were taken to help Natalie focus more.  As she grew older, it was important to do activities that helped her focus such as cheerleading and possible careers in culinary. Because of the importance of focusing, Natalie decided that culinary arts would be beneficial.  Natalie graduated in October of 2004 from the Pennsylvania Culinary Institute with an associate's degree in Specialized Technology Le Cordon Bleu Program in Patisserie & Baking.  While there, she was elected class president. The Pennsylvania Culinary Institute offered externships to various prestigious areas to hone the craft.  Natalie's externship was at the Greenbrier Resort in White Sulpher Springs where she was ultimately hired. However, Natalie decided to return to Pittsburgh after a car accident. Natalie continued to work as a pastry chef for about five years. After, she decided to further her education, and Natalie graduated in December of 2023 from the University of Pittsburgh with a Bachelor of Arts in Humanities. Some of her academic achievements are National Society of Collegiate Scholars, National Society of Leadership and Success, Alpha Sigma lambda-Alpha Chi Chapter at the University of Pittsburgh, Delta Alpha PI Honor Society. During her academic life, Natalie became an Emmy nominated producer for Pitt to the Point (a class focusing on the news as well as behind the scenes of a news/magazine program that covers the City of Pittsburgh, the University of Pittsburgh regional campuses as well as national and international events.) Currently, Natalie is in a Graduate Certification Program which is also at the University of Pittsburgh. The Certification is in Sports, Entertainment, and Arts Law (SEAL). She hopes to use this program as a steppingstone to complete her master's degree in Sports, Entertainment, and Arts Law. In addition to the SEAL certification, one could say that Natalie is a woman of many colors.  She works full-time as an Administrator for the Rehabilitation Science Program in the School of Health and Rehabilitation Sciences at the University of Pittsburgh. This is where she provides administrative support for general program management, advising and faculty. Another aspect of Natalie's many colors is writing.  Several years ago, she wrote a poetry book called The Many Colors of Natalie. This is a book for 18+. There are several illustrations in the book that complement the poems. Mary Dunn, Natalie's mother, created the illustrations. In August of 2020, Natalie launched The Many Colors of Natalie Blog. She started this blog to give a new perspective to Pittsburgh other than being known for sports. This allows individuals the ability to educate themselves on different variations of Pittsburgh's art or artists as well as bringing awareness to the art scene. Natalie's motto is Love Art & Support Your Local Artist! Additionally, Natalie has been a model/actor since 2012. Most of her work consists of being an extra in various music videos and movies. Furthermore, she is an ambassador for Ambassador Sunglasses and Just Strong Clothing. Just Strong Clothing's Mission “We are a clothing brand on a mission to empower those who are not just strong for a girl, they are just strong. Whether you are an experienced lifter, a new starter or have simply overcome great adversaries in your life, the JustStrong community are here to empower and motivate you to never give up.” “Ambassador was formed to extract, refine, and exhibit the marriage between what was and what will be in fashion culture. When wearing Ambassador, you break the mold of the mundane to embrace your unmatched individualism.” Besides being an ambassador, Natalie became a Creative Percussion Artist in 2020. “Creative Percussion is a family-owned business, established in 2018, and run by husband-and-wife team, Kevin and Cheri Feeney.” Her picture is on the site as a CP percussion artist. Not only is Natalie a musician, but she dabbles in various mediums in art. Her mixed media piece Peace, Love, and Woodstock is currently in the Woodstock Museum located in Saugerties, New York. “The purpose for the Woodstock Museum is: To gather, display, disseminate and develop the concept and reality of Woodstock, encompassing the culture and history of a living colony of the arts, with special emphasis placed on the exhibition of self-sustaining ecological technologies. To encourage and increase public awareness of Woodstock by providing information to the general public through cultural events, displays of artifacts, outreach programs, communication media events and personal experiences, and to contribute, as an international attraction, to the cultural life and prosperity of our region; and to engage in all lawful activities in pursuit of the foregoing purposes.” Lastly, Natalie and her mother Mary Dunn started a side hustle several years ago. Mother and Daughter Collaboration (vending show name) is a great opportunity for Natalie to showcase her entrepreneurial skills in addition to her art. Their Etsy name is Maker's Collab Studio. In conclusion, Nat is excited for the future, and to see what is in store. She considers herself to be dynamic and resilient. Even those who know Natalie would say the same.  Regardless of what she has been through, she keeps going. She realizes that the tough times eventually do end. In self-reflection, the “tough time” may have been a life lesson, or a possible steppingstone to what's next in her life. Only time will tell. Natalie will always be a supporter of the arts, and she will always create in some way. As Natalie ages, she sees the importance of advocating for the disabled. At one point in her life, she was embarrassed about sharing her learning disability because she felt that we live in a society where having a disability isn't necessarily welcomed and is frowned upon. Do not fear individuals who need special accommodations.  Instead, educate yourself. Try being that individual who needs certain accommodations, and the accommodations are not provided or easily accessible. Progress has been made in educating the ignorant. However, there is more work that needs to be done. Ways to connect with Natalie & Mary**:** Blog website: Home - The Many Colors of Natalie Personal website: Home | natalie-sebula-belin Book of poetry: The Many Colors of Natalie: Written by: Natalie Belin - Kindle edition by Dunn, Mary, Leckenby, Nicole, Merlin, Grace, Palmieri, David. Literature & Fiction Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com. Facebook: (1) Facebook Instagram: Natalie Sebula (@themanycolorsofnatalie) • Instagram photos and videos Etsy: MakersCollabStudio - Etsy About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. We're doing something that we've done a few times before, and we get to do it again today. We have two people as guests on unstoppable mindset this time, mother and daughter, and that'll be kind of fun they have, between them, lots of experiences in art, but in all sorts of other kinds of things as well. They live in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area, and I'm not going to say a whole lot more, because I want them to tell their stories. So I want you to meet Natalie bellen and her mother, Mary Dunn. So Natalie and Mary, both of you, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  02:03 Well, thank you for Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  02:03 having us. Yes, we're happy to be here. Thank you. Michael Hingson  02:06 Well, let's see. We'll start with mom. Why don't you tell us something about the early Mary growing up, and you know what? What life was like growing up? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  02:18 Well, growing up, I was born in Pittsburgh. I was actually born on in the south side of Pittsburgh, and it was called St Joseph Hospital, and now it's an apartment building, but we lived here. I've lived here all my life. I lived in Hazelwood until I was about the age of three. Then we moved to Whitaker, Pennsylvania, and now I'm in West Mifflin, Pennsylvania. So it's like we hopped around a bit. Growing up in my family was a little bit difficult. I had been bullied quite a bit by my cousins, so it kind of like left you know how it does with bullying. You know, it's not like today. Of course, I didn't want to go out and do something terrible to myself. It's just that it left my self esteem very low, and I just kind of stayed and was by myself most of the time. So until I grew up, I graduated from high school, I went to West Midland, North High School, I graduated in the same class as Jeff Goldblum. Although I didn't know him, I knew that he was very talented. I thought he was more talented on a piano than he was with acting, but he is still he's still very good with the piano, with his jazz music, and that's basically it. I've been in West Mifflin now for she's been quite a bit Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  03:49 since I was in seventh grade, and now I'm 40 years old, so we've been here a long time. Michael Hingson  03:54 Yeah, so it's sort of like 3027 years or so, or 28 years? Yes, well, Natalie, tell us about you when it was like growing up in and all of that. Sure. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  04:08 No problem. So I grew up in Whitaker for the most part, my yearly eight years, like until about fifth grade, I guess about like fifth grade, and then we moved, well, we just moved to a different house and whatever. Yeah, that when we moved for the second time, it was more in a neighborhood with kids, so that was, like, a lot more fun. And we played like tag and all that. So that my early years, I remember that like playing tags, swimming, I love, like skiing on the water, jet skis, stuff like that. Definitely. I loved running around. And I loved dance as a kid too, that was a lot of fun. Michael Hingson  05:00 Okay, and so you went to high school? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  05:05 Oh, yeah, I went, Yes. I went to West Midland area high school, and I graduated in 2003 in 2004 I graduated from the Pennsylvania Culinary Institute as a pastry chef and part of the things that I had to do to graduate, I had to do, like, about a six month internship where I resided in white sulfur springs, West Virginia, and I got to do my externship at the Greenbrier, and that was pretty exciting, because it has quite the history. There. People love it there for Well, one of the things that sticks in my mind is Dorothy Draper, who decorated that resort. Her taste is very cool, because she went bold, like with flower print and stripes mixed together for wallpaper. There's stories in history behind the sulfur water there. And then most people might know the Greenbrier for their golf courses, for the golf course actually, or in history about the sulfur water Michael Hingson  06:26 now, you had high eye pressure for a while after you were born, right? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  06:31 Oh, yes, the eye pressures. That's quite the story, let me tell you so at a very young age, like different doctors and eye doctors that I went to. They knew that I had high pressures, but they didn't seem like it was a big issue. But my mom had the inkling that I needed to go to a different doctor when I was like, I guess you Middle School, Michael Hingson  06:58 yeah, yeah, you were about now, was there a lot of pain because of the pressure. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  07:02 I didn't even know was happening, so I wasn't in discomfort or anything. So they said, don't they kind of dismissed it. So I wasn't worried about it, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  07:14 Neither was I. But you know, like eventually we did go to a doctor and he said, Oh, my goodness, you have these high pressures. And it's, it could be like glaucoma. We don't ever see that in a young person, you know, they haven't ever seen anything like that. He was just amazed by it. And go ahead, you can finish this. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  07:36 Dr Al, I have so much respect for him, because he truly took care of my eyes for a very long time. I started seeing him in middle school, and I saw him up until, like my late 30s, and he I would see him quite frequently, because he would always monitor those pressures, because he knew the importance of that and how they could damage my eyes and I can lose my sight. So he always had me do like fields test eye pressure checks, because your pressures in your eyes can fluctuate throughout the day. So I would come in in like different times of the day to make sure they're not super high and stuff like that. He would prescribe me on different eye pressure medications like eye drops, because the they like the eye drops would help my eyes to it to regulate the pressures to a certain point, and then my eyes would get used to them, it seemed like, so then we would have to go to a different prescription. I caused that doctor a lot of stress, I think, because he was always thinking about my case, because it was so rare. And he went to a conference, actually, and brought that up at a conference, and at that conference, they said for me to get the laser, laser procedure done to Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:10 open the tear ducts. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:12 Yeah, yeah. And luckily, that solved it. Michael Hingson  09:18 Wow, so you so the the tear ducts were, were small or not draining properly, correct? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:26 Yeah, it was points where, like, if I wanted to cry, no tears would come Michael Hingson  09:31 out, no tears would come out. Well, yeah, yeah. Then you also discovered, or somehow you you learned about being Attention Deficit Disorder. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:45 Yeah, so, um, when I was from like one or like, from kindergarten to third grade, I went to a Catholic school, and I didn't seem like there was anything. Being really wrong. But then when I went to a public school, I was really having a hard time grasping the material, and I would get really frustrated when I was at home trying to do the homework and I just wasn't understanding. I believe the educators there said like I was also behind, which could have been part of the issue. But my mom would like try to help me with my homework, and it was like Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  10:28 it was hard. She would, she would get so frustrated and throw the papers and just, you know it, because it was very difficult for her, and we really couldn't under I couldn't understand why. You know this was happening, because my, my other daughter, I never had issues like that with so we had, I guess we were told to go. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  10:53 I think that was Miss Lenz in fifth grade. Yeah, she had me get tested for a learning disability, and with all the testing that was done with that, they said that I had attention deficit disorder. So whenever that diagnosis was made, I was able to get like teacher teaching aids to help me through tests to help me understand the curriculum a little bit better. Tutors did the counselor Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  11:28 I well they I did take her to get tested outside of school, and that's they actually told me some things that could help her with this. And then I went to the teachers, and the teachers, some of them, didn't, like, actually take this into consideration. They, they didn't really realize attention deficit disorder at that time. It was new. And so they, they kind of said, well, we don't, we don't believe in that or whatever. And I said, Well, can you just have her, like, sit up front, because she would pay attention more and she would focus better, because that's the problem she couldn't focus on. So it took a while, and then finally, the principal in the fifth grade, he had a meeting with the teachers us, and he actually was the one who brought that to their attention, that this is a problem, that attention disorder, you know, does occur, and some of it is hyper, just hyperactive disorder. So it luckily she didn't have that part of it, but it was the focusing, and we just got her more involved in things that she could learn how to focus. They recommended cheerleading, they recommended culinary school, and I think that really helped her to learn more on focusing. But she still has anxieties and things like that. It's still Michael Hingson  13:03 it's still there. So why culinary school? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  13:07 So that is such a fun question. When my grandma used to watch me, she was very particular on what I was like watching. She didn't want me to watch anything like super crazy or out there. So I would always watch cooking shows, and I thought he was so unique, the different recipes and everything that these chefs were making. And I love some of their personalities, like emerald, he was always so hyper and loud, so fun. And it was interesting to see the different types of foods that they were creating that, like certain countries make. You know, I love Spanish food. It's so good. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  13:55 She decided not to even get into that part. That was the thing. She wanted to be a pastry chef, yeah, Michael Hingson  14:02 something to be said for chocolate chip cookies. But anyway, go ahead. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  14:07 Yeah, she makes a good one, too. At Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  14:10 this point, I don't even know why. What drew me to baking more than culinary I think the two different styles are cooking are very interesting, because like with cooking, you don't have to be so exact with the measurements and everything with certain things like the spices and stuff. If you don't like rosemary, you don't have to put it in there. But with baking, it's definitely more scientific. Have to be more accurate with the measurements of certain ingredients, like baking soda, because it's lavender and like, altitude will totally screw up your baking Yes, so many reasons that elevation is so important. So yeah, so Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  14:59 mine's to it. Or whatever, you know? Yeah, Michael Hingson  15:01 so you went and did an externship, and then what did you do? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  15:06 So with the externship, I was there for a little bit over six months, I was officially hired, and I graduated from culinary school, but, um, I got in a car accident. So that's like, why left? So I was in baking professionally for about a total five years, and then I went back to school. Sorry, that's grumpy. Can you hear him barking? 15:36 I'm sorry. I'll go. No, no, it's fine. Michael Hingson  15:41 So why did you leave culinary? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  15:43 Um, I was just ready for a change. Because I started working professionally when I was like 19, so by my mid 20s, I was just ready to go back. I mean, that is a very demanding field. You're working several hours. Um, you're working with all types of personalities, certain pressures, long days sometimes. And I was just ready to see what else was out there for me. Michael Hingson  16:12 So you went back to school to study, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  16:15 yes, so my when I graduated in 2023 with my undergraduate degree, it was in humanities, and it focused on three areas of art, music, studio, arts and theater. The main focus was theater, okay? Michael Hingson  16:39 And so, what did you do with that? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  16:42 So with that degree, I did several different things. I wrote a poetry book, which I provided a link so people can access if they would like to purchase it. I created a blog in 2020 called the many colors of Natalie, and I created a blog to help bring a different perspective to Pittsburgh, other than just it being a city for sports, because there's a lot of talented artists out there, and plus, like during a pandemic, that caused a lot of strain on a lot of things, and I was really worried about certain venues that were iconic here closing and completely wiping out the whole art industry here, you know. So, um, with that too, I also, um, I was doing music at the time as a percussionist, and that's when I got introduced to creative percussion products, and I was using that with the different performances that I was doing. And I ended up being one of their artists featured on their page, website or website, yeah. Okay, yeah, and I also volunteered at a local dance studio called Lisa de gorrios dance, and I got to work with the younger kids, and I did that for a couple years. So that was interesting to see what it was like to teach and put on performances. It's a lot of you get to see the behind the scenes and time management and stuff like that. Also, I'm thinking here for a second, sorry. How about, oh, we, my mom and I created an Etsy shop. So we started a few years ago, called Mother Daughter collaboration, a vending that was like our vending show name, and we did that for Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  18:56 we've been doing that for a while. Yeah, we, we put different products up. I kind of tend to do my artwork, and she puts up some things also in art, we have, we have interesting things like CD, telephone, covers, cases, purses, you know. And we're working on a new product now to to put on to the Etsy shop this year. We didn't do many vending shows. I had surgery last last year on my back, and I had a hard time recovering because it was pretty expensive. So we're hoping to get that going again this year, or towards the end of the year, when the Christmas shows start happening, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  19:47 we did, um, create an Etsy shop called makers collab studio, and we were focusing more on that this year. Um, so we do have, like, a variety of different products. Um. Um, which I also provided the link to the Etsy shop. If anybody wants to check out our products and what we have, that'd be great if you stop checked out that. Michael Hingson  20:11 Yeah, my late my late wife, was a quilter and tried to run an Etsy shop, but people didn't want to pay any kind of real prices for handmade quilts, because they just thought that quilts should be, like, 50 or $75 and that just wasn't realistic. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  20:30 But, well, that's, that's the trouble. What we're seeing also, yeah, we do, I do, like, we do t shirts and things like that too. But people it. I don't think people realize what's behind the whole process. No, or they don't care. No, you know, I mean, there's a lot involved as far as your equipment. When it was covid, I was, well, I'm retired, but I was working part time, and I was able to, you know, get what is it, you know, workers, whatever, yeah, you know, yes. And with that money, I actually bought like things to do, T shirts, like the heat press and different parts to like a cricket that we can do things with. And so, you know, like the things that you know, you still have to buy supplies, even with my artwork, it's so expensive anymore, when I first started back in, you know, when my kids grew up and they were on their own, where I really focused on it, and I can't believe the expense of it. You know, it's just, it's everything's expensive these days. So, yeah, really watch what you're doing and how you approach it too. You know, you can't spend a lot of money on things. We don't have, like, a whole backlog of products. I mean, we just do a few things and hope that the things that we make are sellers, you know, Michael Hingson  22:05 yeah, well, and I hope it, it can is more successful for you going forward. That's a useful thing. You You've done a lot Mary with with art over the years, but you've also had other, other kinds of jobs where you've worked for some pretty large companies, and you've been reading your bio, you faced some sexual harassment issues and things like that, haven't you? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  22:29 Yes, yes, that was difficult boy, and I didn't realize that at the time I went to college late in life because I was getting divorced and I needed a job that I could take care of my family, my girls, and so I decided to go to college and my my mom and dad watched my kids while I went to school, which was nice. And the first job I had was with the gas company here, and I was called a technical Fieldman. And what I would do is, like, I would draw pipeline installations and the and sometimes I would fill in as a supervisor. When I filled in first as a supervisor, it was great. I mean, the guys were decent. We always came to a conclusion. I always trusted what they're you know what they would say about pipeline? Because I knew nothing about pipeline. It was all new to me. But when I would go back to the office, it was, it was just like crazy things that would happen. I mean, I won't go into detail, and I started writing these things down because I thought this just doesn't seem right, that these people are saying these things to me or doing these things to me. I had a nice little book of all these incidents that happened, and I went to the HR department, and they wanted me to confront these people in my office, to tell them how I felt. Well, that, to me, would have made everything worse, because that's just that, you know, kind of work environment. So luckily, I was, I was promoted into a job that lasted two years, and then my job was eliminated. So that was my first, my first thing with that was the only time I really had sexual harassment that was really bad. I went on to another which was the program for female Well, I worked for a university for a while, and then I went into the program for female offenders, which was really interesting work. I enjoyed that it was like people that were out on that needed to, that were like drug addicts and and they were looking for a new way. They had been in jail and this incarcerated, and they came into this. Program they had that was part of their incarceration or parole. They had to do this, this program, and that was so interesting. I mean, it was just heartfelt, because you just saw these people that were trying so hard to make a good life for themselves and not to go back to their original way of living. And unfortunately, that was all grant money. And that job ended also so that, you know, and I was a transportation planner, I did a lot of things, and then I ended up going back into the gas industry. I worked for an engineer, and we were working in the production side of everything. So he had drove to you wells, and we had leases, and I took care of those. And I liked that job for about 10 years. I stayed there, and then I I retired. I was getting tired of it at that point. Michael Hingson  26:02 Yeah. Why was your first why was your first job at the original gas company eliminated? Or when you were promoted and you said it was eliminated, yeah? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  26:10 Well, that's what I like to know why it was eliminated. I think sometimes that job was just to keep me quiet. That's how I felt. I mean, I, I they, they knew that I was upset and that I didn't like what was happening. And I think it was just to keep me quiet, and they realized that that job wasn't going to last, but it was a marketing job. We were using different ways to use gas, alternative fuel vehicles, fuel cells, you know. So it was an interesting job, too, but it it didn't really have the supervisor we had was not really a person that pushed the product, you know. So that could have been the reason, too, that they eliminated a lot of that. Yeah, so I wasn't the only one that went I mean, there was another person in that at that time, and eventually that whole department was eliminated. Now that gas company, they sold all that off, and another gas company took it over and equitable. Still is EQT here, and they work, I think at this point, they work with the leases and things like that, and horizontal drilling, they call it. Michael Hingson  27:38 So now that you're retired, what do you do? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  27:41 Well, for a while there, Michael Hingson  27:44 in addition to Etsy, yeah, for Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  27:47 a while, I was actually doing hair. I was my first, my first, I guess, employment type, or whatever. I went to beauty school, and I became a cosmetologist, and I also became a teacher in cosmetology. So when I first became all that the money wasn't so great. I worked my first job. I was so excited I had this job because I thought I was going to be making millions. You know, they they really pump you up in in beauty school that you're going to really succeed and you're going to make this money. Well, my first job, I worked over 40 hours at that job, and I only got $15 in my first pay. It was like we had to stay there the whole time until everyone was finished working. So the girls that had their clientele that they worked the whole day and into the evening, like till eight o'clock. Maybe we had to stay till eight o'clock. Even though I didn't have anybody to do. I might have had one person that day, yeah, so that that wasn't too I just worked at that for a few years, and then I decided to leave and take care of my family. Yeah, well, that that I went back to it when I retired, and it had changed significantly, making pretty good money. I was only working three days a week, and I did pretty well. But then my back. I had the issues with my back, and I couldn't go back to it, which really upset me. I really love that job. Michael Hingson  29:29 Well, things happen. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  29:31 Yeah, it does. You know, I'm happy not to stay at home. I figured now that I'm actually 73 years old now, so I think I I should retire Michael Hingson  29:47 and enjoy my life a little. Well. So Natalie, you graduated in 2023 and so then what did you start to do? And what are you doing now? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  29:57 So what I'm doing now is I'm. Still focusing on the Etsy shop, but I also got into a graduate certificate program, and this certificate is in sports entertainment and arts law, and I really hope to use this program as a stepping stone to complete my master's degree in the sports entertainment and arts law program. Michael Hingson  30:25 What exactly is a graduate certification program, as opposed to a master's degree? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  30:32 So that's a great question. So the certificate program is like a newer program, and it's like the only one in the world, I'm pretty sure, that focuses on sports, entertainment and art. So it's like a newer, more modern type of learning program. And this certificate is a great stepping stone, and for me to check it out before I actually go in to the master's program. This is, like, my second week, and I love it so far, and all these classes that I'm doing, and if I keep my grades up and everything, will apply to the master's program if I get in. Michael Hingson  31:15 Okay, well, so Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  31:20 less credits than, like, what you would need for a master's program, and it's less I don't need a textbook. I have these things called nutshells, where I'm pretty sure, like, I'll be studying different types of cases or something like that through that. So it's like online stuff. Michael Hingson  31:43 The Okay? And how long do you think it will take you to complete that Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  31:49 the certification program should be about a year, and it's all online, okay? Michael Hingson  31:55 And how, how long have you been doing it so far? Just two weeks. Oh, so next August, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the hope is then you can use that to go forward and actually work toward getting a master's degree. Which, which sounds pretty cool, yeah, for sure. What do you want to do with it once you get a master's degree? Well, like Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  32:20 all those points like sports entertainment and arts, I think is Pittsburgh is a great city to represent all of those. And I hope to help represent like clients, maybe do like to protect their works and them as an artist. And I would like to hopefully get into paralegal work. That's what I'm focusing on right now. Michael Hingson  32:47 So is school pretty much full time for you these days? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  32:51 No, it's still part time, and that's what I like love about this program, because, like all week, you'll be doing 10 hours outside of so I still work full time as an administrator in the SHRS program, and I am the administrator for Rehabilitation Science. So yeah, it's great to have like, bosses and everything that support me in my educational journey, because that makes my life a lot easier too. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  33:26 Yeah, that's some great bosses. Michael Hingson  33:29 Well, it's good to have some people who tend to be a little bit more supportive. It helps the psyche when you get to do that. Yes, yeah. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  33:39 Because the one thing that I noticed with this program, it is definitely more manageable, because, like the undergrad program, I did enjoy the process. For most parts, some of it was really challenging. But the undergraduate program, it was really hard for me to get late night classes. Most of those classes that I had to take were I had to be in person, so like late classes were pretty hard to get, but my bosses allowed me to take earlier classes so I could help finish the program faster, but I just had to make up that time. Right? Michael Hingson  34:28 When did you discover that you had artistic talent? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  34:32 Um, I don't know if I ever really discovered that I had the talent, but I was very passionate at a young age, like when my mom was going back to school, I always loved watching her paint, because she had like the painting classes. I always thought so I like sit on the floor and watch her paint. And at a very young age, I was in the dance class. Do you remember the name? A France Dance School of Dance, France School of Dance. And I love dance class so much. I remember one time the dance school was closed because of a holiday, and I was, like, so upset, like, I didn't believe, like, the dance school was closed and I didn't understand, like, why I wasn't allowed to go. So they called the school and it went straight to, like, the answering machine so they could prove, like, it was closed and nobody was there. I was like, ready to show up. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  35:30 She wanted to go, yeah. She was just about three or four when she was taking the dance classes at that time. Yeah. But then it became on, you know that they both the kids were involved, but I couldn't afford it anymore. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  35:45 So dance is very expensive. Yeah? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  35:48 Well, you know, like, at that time too, I was going to school, and I didn't have much of a salary, and I was living with my parents, so, I mean, and they were retired, so it was, like, very tight. Yeah, right. Michael Hingson  36:04 Well, it nice to have an enthusiastic student, you know, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  36:13 so true. Well, Michael Hingson  36:15 so you've created the many colors of Natalie blog, tell me about that. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  36:22 So I reach out to different artists that were that are located in Pittsburgh or at one time, working or living in Pittsburgh. So this is like musicians, photographers, actors and they, I I create questions for them, for them to answer in their own words, like advice that they would give, or funny stories that they had while working in the field. And that's that's the main point of the blog, because I want it to be a resource for people and for them to also see, like, why that genre is cool. And I think another reason that motivated me to create that blog is some people just don't see an importance to art, and I find that so offensive. Like, yeah, so I just wanted it to be as an educational type thing as well. Michael Hingson  37:28 How long has the blog been visible? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  37:33 So it's been visible for about five, six years now, five years, yeah, and I did over like 50 some posts. Michael Hingson  37:45 Do you do that with consistency? Or So do you have one, like, every week or every three weeks, or every month, or something like that? Or how does that work? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  37:53 So when I first started, I was consistent with the posts I don't ever leave my blog, like, not active for like a year. Like, I always try to post something, but it's a little more challenging to do a post. Like, every month, whenever I'm working, going to school, volunteering for different things, running the Etsy shopper, vending so I had to cut it back a little bit because that is just me running it. Michael Hingson  38:30 So you've also created a mixed media piece. First of all, what is a mixed media piece? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  38:35 You want to explain Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  38:36 the mixed media? Oh, well, a mixed media is like different mediums. It could be paint, it could be pictures, and it's posted on a board, a canvas, or whatever it can be in a journal. You know, you just use various types of mediums. It could be using lace, it could be using fabric, it could be using, like I said, pictures, paper, and they call it mixed media. So she decided she wanted to create a mixed media. I had a huge canvas that was given to me. It was like 36 by 36 giant. It was huge, and I knew I couldn't do anything on that, because I don't paint big. I like to paint on smaller canvas, like an eight and a half by 11, or eight and a half by 14. So she, she decided she wanted to use that Canvas for something. But you go ahead and tell them. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  39:38 So, um, whenever Woodstock had their 50th anniversary, and I believe that was around 2019 I had the opportunity to go to yaska's Farm and camp where the original campers from the very first Woodstock would stay in that. Campsite was like, right next to this yaska farms. So I took some pictures of it, like me with the yaska farm house. And so it was very inspirational to go to that because I was doing research on what Woodstock was, the original Woodstock. And what that was about, I talked to Uber drivers that were actually at the original Woodstock. Jimi Hendrix is one of my favorite musicians, and for him to not be there, I was like, so sad. Very sad. So with all the education experience. I needed to release that. And I took my mom, let me have that canvas, and like I created a mixed media giant collage, and I got that into the Woodstock Museum in Socrates, New York. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:01 Wow, it's actually there now, Michael Hingson  41:04 yep. How long has it been there? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:07 I believe got that in there? Yeah, about two years. Michael Hingson  41:13 Wow. So it's kind of almost a permanent piece there. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:17 I hope so. I hope they keep it there for sure. What? Michael Hingson  41:21 What prompted them to be interested in having it there. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:25 So I that piece was so giant, and I loved how it turned out, and I wanted that more than just in my house, my art pieces are very close to me, because that's like my soul and my work, and I want it out there to somebody who cares about it. So I reached out to Shelly nation, Nathan, because they, I believe, are the owners of the Woodstock Museum, and they were more than happy to have it. I had it shipped out there. And then, whenever the season was to reopen the museum, I went out there and visited it. And it's a very great it's a very cool place. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:10 Recommend, yeah, she, she was interviewed by them, also, right? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:14 Oh, yeah, we did go on a radio station. And that was also a cool experience, because I was never on a radio show at that time. Cool. Michael Hingson  42:25 Well, that's pretty exciting. I have not been to the Woodstock Museum, so that might be something to explore at some point when I get get back there next that'd Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:35 be great. Yeah, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:37 all those things like, you know, like I grew up during that period, of course, I didn't go to the Woodstock. Original Woodstock wouldn't let me do that. I was only 16 at the time, and but I mean, you know, like, like looking back at that and and seeing how all those people were there, and not nothing terrible happened, you know, I mean, hundreds of 1000s of people, and nobody got hurt. Well, they might have passed out, maybe from things, but nobody was, like, shot or killed or and like today. I mean, you can't you're so afraid to do anything today, you don't know what's going to happen. And it just was a different time. And the musicians that were there. I mean, that music was is still good today. You know, it's it, it hasn't faded. And I wonder sometimes about today's music, if it will continue to be popular in years to come, or if it's just going to fade out. You know, we won't know that, and so well I won't be here, probably Michael Hingson  43:44 we won't know for a while anyway, yes, but I did hear on a radio station a rebroadcast of a lot of the Woodstock concerts that was kind of Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  43:56 fun. Yes, yes. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  44:00 Sorry I didn't mean to cut you. Go ahead. Go ahead. When I was talking to like the Uber drivers and stuff like that, and people who were at the original Woodstock, it seems like they were reliving that experience when they were telling the stories. I mean, it was great. Michael Hingson  44:15 Yeah. Well, you play creative percussion. First of all, what is pre creative percussion? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  44:23 So I actually have that written in some notes, what it actually is. So do you mind if I read off my notes? Michael Hingson  44:30 You're welcome to however you want to answer, perfect. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  44:33 So I was asked to be a creative percussion artist in 2020 and creative percussion is a family owned business established in 2018 and run by husband and wife team, Kevin and Sherry Feeney. They're great. I've had the opportunity to talk to them very much a couple of times, and my pictures also on the site. Um. Uh, under like my stage name now is a Bulla. So if you scroll down spell that it's S, E, B as a boy, u as in unicorn, L, L as in Len and a is an apple. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  45:16 Okay, what types of things, kinds Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  45:18 of there's various types of shakers that I played because of various bands that I was in, I was the percussionist, so I played tambourine and stuff. But like, they have uniquely shaped shakers, like there's the hatch shakers, which I love them. They had a baseball shaker, and these little golf ball shakers, and they all carry different sounds, and they really blended differently with the type of song that I was playing was playing, yeah, so it's cool, Michael Hingson  45:53 yeah, so interesting. So you you play them as part of being with a band, or what Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  46:01 for the most part, yeah, sometimes there was an acoustic band or just like a full band, and either way, I tried to have those pieces blend into the song. What I didn't learn when I was doing that is and an acoustic you really have to be on your game, because, like, if you mess up, like, people are gonna hear it more than if you're in a full band. So, yeah, right. Michael Hingson  46:38 So you do you still do that? Do you still play Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  46:42 at this time? I don't, um, just because I wanted to focus on other things, so I took a step back from that. Michael Hingson  46:51 Do you think you'll do more of it in the future, or Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  46:56 possibly, but like, that's how I am. I kind of just like, experience it, do it until I'm ready to move on to something else. Michael Hingson  47:04 So you flit, you flip from thing to thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  47:10 So, like, if you ever follow me, you might just see, like, me evolving and just trying other things. Michael Hingson  47:19 Well, you're adventurous. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  47:22 Yes, I love adventure. Michael Hingson  47:25 Nothing wrong with having an adventure in the world and getting to really look at things. So what are you doing now if you're not doing creative percussion and so on? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  47:38 Well, for the last couple months, I was helping my mom recover from like the back surgery. And then I was I was focusing on my blog, just really paying attention to that, getting certain interviews, and then schooling, getting ready to go into the certificate program. Michael Hingson  48:05 So you think you're gonna go ahead Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  48:09 and I'm setting up the Etsy shop. Michael Hingson  48:13 So you're pretty excited about seal, the sports entertainment, art and law. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  48:19 Yes, I'm very excited about that. I was very excited to get into the program. The professors are great. The whole programs like really good. The people involved in it, they seemed, they seem really organized and let me know what I need to do to get into the program. And they are really nice. If I have a question, they're happy to answer it. I love the curriculum, so I hope you go, Well, Michael Hingson  48:46 do you experience anything any more dealing with like attention deficit? Oh, 100% it still creeps up, huh? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  48:55 Well, it's more anxiety than anything. But like this program, I think, is to help calm my anxiety with just different things that are set up. And like, how responsive the professors are and how nice they are. But my goodness, when I was in my undergraduate program, like I was really pushing myself, and I would like, of like, when 2020, came around in the pandemic, I needed to talk to my doctor and get on meds, like I could no longer not do that without meds. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  49:29 Yes, she was, she was struggling. It was tough. Yeah. I mean, when I went for my Bachelor's, I I I wasn't working. She was working. When I went for my master's, I was working, but, and I know how hard that is, you know, trying to balance things, especially I was working at equitable at the time, and the things that I was going through and being, you know, filling in for supervisors was I. I was on call, like, 24 hours a day, and it, you know, like that was, I can see how difficult it is to do both. It's just, I know what she was going through there, and she goes through it, but she did well. She graduated sigma, sigma cum laude. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  50:17 Yeah, I did get some honorary, like accolades for like, whenever I graduated. So that was pretty exciting, because the hard work did pay off. Michael Hingson  50:29 What do you think about studying and attending classes virtually as opposed to physically being in the room? Hybrid learning? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  50:38 Some people may have an issue with that, but I personally, cause I was working full time and it was hard for me to get later classes, I preferred the online learning, but I understand, like some of the classes really did need me to be there, like the theater classes, and I was okay with that. I don't mind either, either or, but it just seems like online learning is more manageable. For me, it Michael Hingson  51:08 takes more discipline to to stick with it and focus on it, as opposed to being in the classroom. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  51:14 Um, yeah, I agree, but I think which, which is not a negative thing, by the way. Oh, yeah, no, no, no, I totally understand, but I think, um, I forget what I was going with that. Michael Hingson  51:26 Sorry. Well, we were talking about the fact that more discipline dealing with, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  51:33 Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right, thank you. It's just, um, I think if you truly want it, you're gonna put forth the effort in anything. You know, it's may not always be enjoyable, but like, if you want it, you'll put through it. You'll push through it, like with high school, my mom knows, just like from elementary to high school, like that curriculum, I was just not feeling it, but I knew I had to stick it out. I wanted to be a high school dropout. I voiced that many of times, but like, I knew if I wanted to get to culinary school, I had to really focus on my academics through then and just try to push through and just do it, do what I had to do to graduate. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  52:19 Yeah, it's such a different environment to high school, I believe, you know, like I found that I really enjoyed college. I enjoyed my subjects. They went fast. The classes went fast. It was fast paced, but it was an I learned more. I you know, I think that slowness of the way that they do things in in the high school, it takes them like three weeks to get through one chapter, you know, and so it, it just, it just made it a big difference. And I, I wished I could continue to go to school. I think I was a really good student. Michael Hingson  52:59 I think one of the things about college is, and I've talked to several people who agree, is, you certainly learn from the courses that you take, but College offers so much more with with with the extracurricular activities, with the interaction with people, with The greater responsibility. College offers so many more life lessons if you take advantage of it, that really makes it cool. And I, I always enjoyed college. I liked it a lot. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  53:29 Yeah, yeah, I did too, I think with some of my challenges and frustrations, not only with my learning disability, but like the fact that

In episode 148 of White Canes Connect, we share the powerful General Sessions remarks of David DeNotaris from the 2025 National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania State Convention in Harrisburg.  Speaking from a lifetime of experience, David reflects on growing up with Braille, discovering the Federation, and the profound influence of Dr. Kenneth Jernigan on his understanding of blindness and self-respect. Through humor and deeply personal stories, he explores what it truly means to believe that it is respectable to be blind—and how that belief unlocks confidence in using Braille, mobility tools, technology, and advocacy skills without apology.  David also recounts a pivotal advocacy victory that demonstrates the real-world impact of collective action and organized effort. His message is both a challenge and an invitation: get involved, stay involved, and believe in one another. This episode is a reminder that when blind people work together, barriers fall, opportunities expand, and lives are changed. Show notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/148          Connect with David DeNotaris Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/david.denotaris LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-de-notaris-237b476/  Sky's the Limit Communications on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/877.TAP.HOPE. Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. We Want to Hear Your Story Reach out with questions and comments, or share ideas! We want to hear from you. Call us at (267) 338-4495 or at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.