Podcasts about national federation

Courage is not loud. Sometimes it is a 13-year-old girl standing in a courtroom, promising to defend dignity no matter the cost.  Noura Ghazi's life was shaped by detention, disappearance, and resistance long before she became a human rights lawyer. Growing up in Damascus with a father repeatedly imprisoned for political opposition, she chose early to confront injustice through law rather than violence. From defending political prisoners during the Syrian revolution to marrying her husband inside a prison and later founding No Photo Zone, Noura has built a life rooted in resilience, civil rights advocacy, and unwavering belief in human dignity.  Now living in France as a political refugee, she continues her work supporting families of detainees, survivors of torture, and the disappeared. Her story is not simply about survival. It is about choosing mindset over fear, purpose over despair, and love even in the shadow of loss. This conversation invites reflection on what it means to remain Unstoppable when freedom, justice, and even safety are uncertain.  Highlights:  00:07:06 – A defining childhood moment reveals how a confrontation in a Syrian courtroom shaped Noura's lifelong commitment to defending political prisoners.  00:12:51 – The unpredictable nature of Syria's exceptional courts exposes how justice without standards creates generational instability and fear.  00:17:32 – The emotional aftermath of her father's release illustrates how imprisonment reshapes entire families, not just the person detained.  00:23:47 – Noura's pursuit of human rights education demonstrates how intentional learning becomes an act of resistance in restrictive systems.  00:32:10 – The early days of the Syrian revolution clarify how violence escalates when peaceful protest is met with force.  00:37:27 – Her marriage inside a prison and the global advocacy campaign that followed reflect how personal love can fuel public courage.  00:50:59 – A candid reflection on PTSD reveals how trauma can coexist with purpose and even deepen empathy for others.  About the Guest:   Noura Ghazi's life has been shaped by a single, unwavering mission: to defend dignity, freedom, and justice in the face of dictatorship. Born in Damascus into a family deeply rooted in political resistance, she witnessed firsthand the cost of speaking out when her father was detained, tortured, and disappeared multiple times. That lived experience became her calling. Since 2004, she has defended political prisoners before Syria's Supreme Security State Court, and when the Syrian revolution began in 2011, she fully committed herself to supporting detainees and the families of the disappeared. Even after her husband, activist Bassel Khartabil Safadi, was detained, disappeared, and ultimately executed, she continued her advocacy with extraordinary resolve.  Forced into exile in 2018 after repeated threats and arrest warrants, Noura founded NoPhotoZone to provide legal aid, psychological support, and international advocacy for victims of detention, torture, enforced disappearance, and displacement across Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey. Her mission is not only to seek justice for the imprisoned and the missing, but to restore agency and hope to families living in uncertainty and trauma. Recognized globally for her courage and leadership, Noura remains committed to amplifying the voices of the silenced and ensuring that even in the darkest systems, human rights and human dignity are never forgotten.  https://nouraghazi.org/   https://nophotozone.org/   Book – Waiting by Noura Ghazi - https://www.lulu.com/shop/noura-ghazi-safadi/waiting/paperback/product-1jz2kz2j.html?page=1&pageSize=4   About the Host:  Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.  Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.  https://michaelhingson.com   https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/   https://twitter.com/mhingson   https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson   https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/  Thanks for listening!  Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.  Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!  Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app.  Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you are enjoying the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Michael Hingson  00:09 Well, welcome everyone to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to chat with Nora Ghazi, who lives in, I believe, France right now. She was born in Syria. She'll tell us about that, and she has had an interesting life, and I would say, a life that has had lots of challenges and some treachery along the way. But we'll get to all of that, and I will leave it to her to describe most of that, but I just want to tell you all we really appreciate you being here and hope you enjoy the episode. So Nora, how are you? Noura Ghazi  00:49 Thank you, Michael, for having me in this great broadcast, doing well. Michael Hingson  00:57 Well, there you go. Well, why don't we start? I love to start this way. Why don't you tell us kind of about the early Nora, growing up and so on, where you grew up, what anything you want to talk about, regarding being a younger person and all of that and and however we want to proceed, we'll go from there. Noura Ghazi  01:17 Okay, so since I was a child, my childhood wasn't like normal, like all the kids at my age, because my father was like a leader in opposition party against the previous Syrian regime. Michael Hingson  01:34 So you were born in Syria? Noura Ghazi  01:37 Yes, I work in Damascus. I'm from Damascus, but I have some like multiple origin that I'm proud of. But yes, I'm from Damascus. So since I was five years old, my father was disappeared and because he was wanted with other, like fellows at his party and other, let's say aliens, parties of opposition against the previous regime. So he disappeared for six years, then he was detained and transferred to what was named the supreme security state court. So it was during my adultness, let's say so since I was a child like I had at that time, only one sister, which is one year younger than me, we were moving a lot. We had no place to live. So my mother used to take us each few days to stay at some, someone place, let's say so it caused to us like changing schools all, all the time, which means changing friends. So it was very weird. And at that age, okay, I I knew the words of like cause, the words of leader or dictatorship. I used to say these words, but without knowing what does it mean. Then, when my father detained, it was his ninth detention. Actually, my mother was pregnant with my brother, so my brother was born while my father was in prison. And while he was in prison, the last time he disappeared for one year, three months, he was in like a kind of isolation in security facility. Then he was referred to this court. So in one of the sessions of the trials, I had a fight with the officer who, like who was leading the patrol that bring my father and other prisoners of conscience. So at the end of this fight, I promised my father and the officer that, okay, I will grow up and become a human rights lawyer and defend political prisoners, which I did at the end. Michael Hingson  04:05 So what? What was the officer doing? He was taking people to the court. Noura Ghazi  04:12 Yes, because Okay, so there is many kind of prisons now. They became like, more familiar to like public opinion because of, like 15 years of violence in Syria. So there was, like the the central civil prison in Damascus, which we call ADRA prison, and we have said, NIA jail, military prison. So those two prisons, they were like, holding detainees in them. So they they used to bring detainees to the court in busses, like a kind of military busses, with patrol of like civil police and military police. So the officer was like. Heading the patrol that was bringing my fathers from other prison. Michael Hingson  05:05 So you, so you, what was the fight about with the officer and your father and so on? What? How? Well, yeah, what was the fight? Noura Ghazi  05:16 It's very good question, although at that time, it was a very like scary situation, but now I laughed a lot about it. Okay, so they used to to catch all the prisoners in one chain with the handcuffs. So we used to come to hug and kiss my father before entering the court. So I was doing what I used to do during the trials, or just upon the trials, and then one of the policemen, like pushed me away. So I got nervous, and my father got nervous. So the officer provoked me. He was like a kind of insulting that my father is a detainee, and he is like he's coming to this court. So I, like I replied that I'm proud of my father and his friends what they are doing. So he somehow, he threats me to detain me like my father, and at that time, I was very angry, and I curse the father Assad just in on the like in the door, at the door of the court, and there was people and and Like all the the policemen, like they were just pointing their weapon to me, and there was some moments of silence. Then they took all the detainees into the court. So at this moment, while I'm entering the court behind them, I said, I will grow up and become a human rights lawyer to defend political prisoners. Michael Hingson  07:02 What did the officers say to that? Noura Ghazi  07:06 Because they used to look to us as because we are. We were against father Assad and the dictatorship, so they used to see us, even if we are kids, as enemies. Michael Hingson  07:22 Yeah, so the officer but, but he didn't detain you. I was Noura Ghazi  07:27 only 13 years, yeah, okay, they used to to arrest the kids, but they didn't. Michael Hingson  07:37 So did the officer react to your comment? You're going to grow up to become a civil rights lawyer? Noura Ghazi  07:43 He was shocked, was he? But I don't know if he knew that I become a human yes, there at the end, yeah. Michael Hingson  07:54 And meanwhile, what did your father do or say? Noura Ghazi  07:58 He was shocked also, but he was very proud, and until now, he like every time, because I'm also like, very close to to his friends who I used to visit in prison. Then I become a human rights lawyer, and I was the youngest lawyer in Syria. I was only 22 years old when I started to practice law. So during the the revolution in Syria, which started in 2011 some of his friends were detained, and I was their lawyer also. So I'm very close to them. So until now, they remember this story and laugh about it, because no one could curse or say anything not good about father Assad or or the family, even in secret. So it's still, like, very funny, and I'm still like, stuck somehow in, like, in this career and the kind of activism I'm doing, because just I got angry of the officer 30 years ago. So at this, at that moment, I've decided what I will be in the future. I'm just doing it well. Michael Hingson  09:20 From everything I've read, it sounds like you do a good job. Noura Ghazi  09:25 I cannot say it's a job, because usually you you do a job, you get paid for your job, you go at a certain time and come back at a certain time. You do certain tasks. But for me, it's like a continuing fight, non violent fight, of course, for dignity, for freedom, for justice, right, for reveal the truth of those who were disappeared and got missing. So yes, until now, I'm doing this, so I don't have that. Are the luxury to to be paid all the time, or to be to have weekends or to work until like certain hour at night. I cannot say I'm enjoying it, but this is the reason why I'm still alive, because I have a motive to help and support other people who are victims to dictatorship and violence. Michael Hingson  10:25 So your father went into court and what happened? Noura Ghazi  10:31 He was sentenced. At the end, he was sentenced to three years in prison. And it's a funny story, another funny story, actually, because, like the other latines at that at that trial, like it was only my father and other two prisoners who sent who were sentenced to three years in prison, while other people, the minimum was seven years in Prison, until 15 years in prison. So my mother and us, we felt like we are embarrassed and shy because, okay, our father will will be released like in few months, but other prisoners will stay much longer. So it's something very embarrassing to our friends who whom their fathers got sentenced to like more. Michael Hingson  11:30 Did you ever find out why it was only three years? Noura Ghazi  11:33 We don't know because it's an exceptional court, so it's up to the judge and the judge at that time, like it's it's very similar to what is happening now and what happened after 2011 so it's a kind of continuing reality in in Syria since like 63 which was the first time my father was detained. It was in 63 just after the what they called the eighth March revolution. So my father was only 11 years old when he was detained the first time because he participated in a protest. So it's up to the judge. It's not like a real court with like the the fair trial standards. So it's it's only once you know, the judge said the sentences for each one. So two prisoners got confused. They couldn't differentiate like Which sentence to whom, so they asked like again, so he forgot, so he said them again in different way. So it's something like, very spontaneously, yeah, very just moody, not any standard. Michael Hingson  12:51 Well, so Did your father then serve the three years and was released. Or what happened? Noura Ghazi  12:58 He was released on the day that he should be released, he disappeared for few days. We didn't know what happened. Then he was released. Finally he came. We used to live with my my grandma, so I was the one who opened the door, and I saw just my father. So we we knew later that okay, he was moved again to a security facility because he refused to sign a paper that say that he will not practice any oppositional action against the authority. So he refused, yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  13:43 Well, I mean, I'm sure there's, there's a continuing story, what happened to him after that. So he came home, Noura Ghazi  13:53 he came out to my grandma. It was a big surprise, like full of joy, but full of tears as well. Michael Hingson  14:01 And you're you were 16 now, right? Noura Ghazi  14:04 I was when he was raised. I was 15, yeah, okay, yeah. And my sister was 14. My brother was two years and a half, so for him, okay, the father is this person that we visit behind bars every Monday, not this one who stay with us. So for him, it was weird. For my brother, he was very like little kid to understand. Then my father went to to see his parents as well. Then we came back to our apartment that we couldn't live more than few months because my father was detained. So at this night, everything was very, very, very new, like because before the three years he he was disappeared for six years, so there was. Nine years. We don't live with my father, so my brother used to sleep just next to my mom, actually my sister and me, but okay, we were like a teenager, so it's okay. So my brother couldn't sleep. Because why he keep, he kept asking why my father is sleeping with us while he's not with his friend at that place. And he was traumatized for many days. But usually when, like a political prisoner released, usually, like, we have a kind of two, three weeks of people visiting the family to say, Okay, it's it's good. We're happy for you that he was released. So the first two, three weeks were full of people and like, social events, etc. Then the, the real problem started. So my father studied law, but he was fired from university for security reasons at the the last year of his study, and as he was sentenced so he couldn't work, my mother used to work, and so like suddenly he started to feel that okay, He's not able to work. He's not able to fulfill the needs of his family. He's not able to spend on the family. The problems between him and my mother started. We couldn't as like my sister and me as teenagers. We couldn't really accept him. We couldn't see that. He's the same person that we used to visit in prison. He was very friendly. We used to talk about everything in life, including the very personal things that usually daughters don't speak with fathers about it. But then he became a father, which we we we weren't used to it, and he was shocked also. So I can say that this, this situation, at least on emotional and psychological level, for me, it lasted for 15 years. I couldn't accept him very well, even my my sister and and the brother and it happens to all like prisoners, political prisoners, especially who spent long time in prison. Michael Hingson  17:32 So now is your father and well, are your father and your mother still alive? Or are they around? Noura Ghazi  17:41 They are still alive. They are still in Damascus, Michael Hingson  17:44 and they're still in Damascus. Yes, how is I guess I'll just ask it now, how is Syria different today than it was in the Assad regime, Noura Ghazi  17:56 like most of Syrians, and now we should differentiate about what Syrians will talk. We're talking so like those Syrians, like the majority of Syrians, and I'm meaning here, I'm sorry, I shouldn't be very direct. Now, the Arab Sunni Syrians, most of them, they are very happy. They are calling what happened in in last eight December, that it's the deliberation of Syria, but for other minorities, like religious or ethnic minorities, of course, it's almost the same. For me, I feel that okay, we have the same dictatorship now, the same corruption, the same of like lack of freedom of expression. But the the added that we have now is that we have Islamist who control Syria. We have extremists who control Syria. They intervene even in personal freedoms. They they are like, like, they are committing crimes against minorities, like it started last March, against alawed. It started last July, against Druze. Now it is starting against Kurdish, and unfortunately, the international community turning like an attorney, like, okay. They are okay with with it, because they want, like their own interest, their own benefits. They have another crisis in the world to take care and to think about, not Syria. So the most important for the international community is to have a stable situation in Syria, to be like, like, no kind of like, no fight zone in the Middle East, and they don't care about Syrian people. And this is very frustrating for those who. Who have the same beliefs that I have. Michael Hingson  20:04 So in a lot of ways, you're saying it hasn't, hasn't really changed, and only the, only the faces and names have changed, but not the actions or the results Noura Ghazi  20:16 the faces and names, and most important, the sects, has changed. So it was very obvious for me that most of Syrians, they don't mind to be controlled by dictator. They only mind what is the sect of this dictator? Michael Hingson  20:35 Unfortunately. Well, yeah. Well, let's go back to you. So your father was released, and you had already made your decision about what you wanted to be, what how does school work over there? Did you go to a, what we would call a high school? Or how does all that work? Noura Ghazi  20:58 Yeah, high school, I was among the like the student who got the highest score in Damascus. I was the fourth one on Damascus when I finished. We call it back like Baccalaureate in Syria, which came from French. And I studied law, and I was also very, like, really hard, hard study person. So I was graduated in four years. Actually, nobody in Syria used to finish studying law in Damascus University only in four years. Like some people stayed more than 10 years because it it was very difficult, and it's different than like law college or law school or university of law, depending on the country, than other countries, because we only like study law. Theoretically, we don't have any practice because we were 1000s of students, it was the like the maximum university that include students. And I registered immediately in the Bar Association in Damascus, and I started because we have, like, a kind, it's, it's similar to stage for two years, like under the supervision of another lawyer who was my uncle at the first and then we we have to choose a topic in certain domain of flow, to write a kind of book which is like, it's similar to thesis, to apply it, to approve it, and then to have the kind of interactive examination, then we have the the final graduated. So all of them to be like a practice lawyer. It's around six years, a little bit more. So my specialist was in criminal law, and my thesis, what about what we call the the impossible crime. It was complicated topic. I have to say that in Syria at that time, I'm talking about end of of 90s, beginning of 2000 so we don't have any kind of study related to human rights. We weren't allowed even to spell this word like human rights. So then in 2005 and 2006 I started to study human rights under international laws related to human rights in Jordan. So I became like a kind of certified human rights defenders and the trainer also, Michael Hingson  23:47 okay, and so you said you started practice and you finished school when you started practice, when you were 22 Yes, okay, I'm curious what, what were things like after September 11, of course, you know, we had the terrorist attacks and so on. Did any of that affect anything over in Syria, where you lived, Noura Ghazi  24:15 of course, like, we stayed talking, watching the news for like four months, like until now we remember, like September 11. But you know, I now when I remember, it was a shock, usually for the Arab world, or Arab people like America is against the Arab world. So everything happened against it was like, this was like, let's say 2030, years ago. Everything that caused any harm to America, they celebrate it. So that. At that time, I was 19 years old, and okay, it's the first time we we hear that a person who was terrorist do like is doing this kind in in us, which is like a miracle for us. But then I started to to think, okay, they it's not an army. They are. There are civilians. Those civilians could be against the the policies of the US government. They could be like, This is not a kind of fight for freedom or for rights or for any like, really, like, fair cause. This is a terrorist action against civilians. And then we started, I'm very lucky because I'm from very educated family. So we started to think about, like, okay, bin Laden. And like, which we have a president from Qaeda now in Syria, like, you can imagine how I feel now. Like, I Okay, all the world is against al Qaeda, and they celebrated that the President in Syria is from al Qaeda. So it's, it's very it's, it's, really, it's not logical at all. But the funniest thing that happened, because, like, the name of Usama bin Laden, was keeping on every like, every one tongue. So I have my my oldest uncle. His name is Usama, and he lives in Germany for 40, more than 40 years, actually. So my brother was a child, and he started to cry, and he came to my mother and asked her, I'm afraid, is my uncle the same Usama? So we were laughing all, and we said, No, it's another Usama. This is the Usama. This is Osama bin Laden, who is like from is like a terrorist group, etc. But like this unfortunate incident started to bring to my mind some like the concept of non violence, the concept of that, okay, no civilian in any place in the world should be harmed for any reason, Because we never been told this in Syria and mostly in most of of countries like the word fight is very linked to armed fights, which I totally disagree with. Michael Hingson  27:56 Well, the when people ask me about September 11 and and so on. One of the things that I say is this wasn't a religious war. This wasn't a religious attack. This was terrorist. This was, I put it in terms of of Americans. These were thugs who decided they wanted to have their way with people. But this is not the way the Muslim the Islamic religion is there is peaceful and peace loving as as anyone, and we really need to understand that. And I realize that there are a lot of people in this country who don't really understand all about that, and they don't understand that. In reality, there's a lot of peace loving people in the Middle East, but hopefully we'll be able to educate people over time, and that's one of the reasons I tell the story that I do, because I do believe that what happened is 19 people attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and so on, and they don't represent the the typical viewpoint of most people, religious wise in the Middle East. And I can understand why a lot of people think that the United States doesn't like Arabs, and I'm not sure that that's totally true, but I can appreciate what you're saying. Noura Ghazi  29:28 Yeah, I'm talking about specific communities actually, who they are, like totally against Israel, and they believe that you us is supporting Israel. So that's that's why they have their like this like attitude towards us and or like that US is trying to invest all the resources in the in the Middle East, etc. But what you were mentioning. Is really very important, because those 19 persons, they like kind of they, they cause the very bad reputation for for Muslims, for Middle Eastern because for for for other people from other countries, other culture or other religion, they will not understand that, okay, that, as you said, they don't represent Muslims. And in all religions, we have the extremist and we have those peaceful persons who keep their their religion as a kind of direct connection with God. They respect everyone, and normally in in in Syria, most of of the population like this, but now having a terrorist as a President, I'm not able to believe how there is a lot of Syrians that support him. Mm, hmm. Because when Al Qaeda started in Syria at the beginning, under the name of japet Al Nusra, then, which with July, who is now Ahmad Al shara, was the leader, and he's the leader of the country now most of Syrians, especially the the the Sunni Syrians, were against this, like terrorist groups, because the most harm they cause is for for Sunnis in Syria, because all other minorities, they will think about every Sunni that they, He or she, like, believe and behave like those, which is totally not true. Michael Hingson  31:47 Yeah, I hear you. Well, so September 11 happened, and then eventually you started doing criminal law. And if we go forward to what 2011 with the Syrian revolution? Yeah, and so what was, what was that revolution about? Noura Ghazi  32:10 It was okay. It started as a reaction against detaining kids from school. Okay, of course, this like the Syrian people, including me, we were very affected and inspired about what was happening in Egypt and Tunisia. But okay, so the security arrested and tortured those kids in their south of Syria. So people came out in demonstration to ask for their freedom and the security attack those protesters with, like, with weapons, so couple of persons died. So then it was, it started to be like a kind of revolution, let's say, yeah, the the problem for me, for lot of people like me, that the the previous Syrian regime was very violent against protesters and the previous president, Bashar Assad, he refused to listen to to to those people, he started to, like dissipated from the reality. So this like, much violence that was against us, like, I remember during some protest, there was not like, small weapon toward us. There was a tank that bombing us as protesters, peaceful, non violent, non armed protesters. So this violence led to another violence, like a kind of reaction by those who defected from the army, etc. And here, my father used to say, when the opposition started to to carry weapon in a country that, like the majority of it, is from certain religion, this could lead to a kind of Jihadist methodology. And this is what happened. So for for people like us, which we are very little comparing of like, the other beliefs of other people like we were, we started to be against the Syrian regime, then against the jihadist groups, then against that, like a kind of international, certain International, or, let's say original intervention, like Iran and Russia. So we were fighting everywhere, and no one. No one wanted us because those like educated, secular, non violent people, they. Form a kind of danger for every one of those parties. But what happened with me is that I met my late husband during a revolution at the very early of 2011 and having the relationship with me was my own revolution. So I was living on parallel like two revolution, a personal one and the public one. And then, like he was detained just two weeks before our our wedding. He was disappeared, actually, for nine months, then he was moved to the same prison that my father was in, to the central prison in Damascus that we got married in prison by coincidence. I don't know if coincidence is the right word in this situation, but my late husband was a very well known programmer and activist. So we were he was kind of, let's say, famous, and I was a lawyer and lawyer that defend human rights defenders and political prisoners. And the husband was detained, so I used to visit him in prison and visit other prisoners that I was their lawyers. And because my like, we have this personal aspect that okay, the couple that got married in prison and that, okay, I'm activist as a lawyer, and my late husband was a well known programmer. So we created a very huge campaign, a global campaign. So we invested this campaign to like, to shed the light about detention, torture, disappearance, exceptional courts, then, like also summary execution in Syria. So then, after almost three years of visiting him regularly, he disappeared again in 2015 and in 2017 I knew that he was sentenced to death, and I knew the exact date of his execution, just in 2018 which was two days ago. It was October 5. So this is what happened then. I had to leave Syria in 2018 so I left to Lebanon. Michael Hingson  37:27 So you left Syria and went to Lebanon? Noura Ghazi  37:33 Yes, the The plan was to stay only six months in Lebanon because I was wanted and I was threatened like I lived a terrible life, really, like lot of Syrians who were activists also, but the plan was that I will stay in Lebanon for six months, then I will leave to to UK because I had A scholarship to get a master in international law. But only two months after I left to Lebanon, I decided to stay in Lebanon to establish the organization that I'm I'm leading until now, which was a project between my late husband and me. Its name is no photo zone, so it was a very big decision, but I'm not regrets. Michael Hingson  38:23 You, you practice criminal law, you practiced human rights, you visited your your fiance, as it were, and then, well, then your husband in prison and so on. Wasn't all of that pretty risky for you? Noura Ghazi  38:42 Yes, very risky. I, I lived in under like, different kind of risk. Like, okay, I have the risk that, okay, I'm, I'm doing my activism against the previous regime publicly because I also, I was co founder of the First Family or victim Association in Syria families for freedom. So we, we were, like, doing a kind of advocacy in Europe, and I used to come back to Syria, so I was under this risk, but also I was under the risk of the like, going to prison, because the way to prison and the prison itself were under bombing. It was in like a point that separate the opposition militias and the regime militias. So they were bombing each other and bombing the prison and bombing the way to prison. So for three years, and specifically for like, in, let's say, 2014 specifically, I was among, like, I was almost the only lawyer that visited the prison, and I, I didn't mind this. I faced death more than 100 time, only on the way to prison, two times the person next to me in the like transportation. It's a kind of small bus. He died and fell down on me, but I had a strong belief that I will not die, Michael Hingson  40:21 and then what? Why do you think that they never detained you or or put you in prison? Do you have any thoughts? Noura Ghazi  40:29 I had many arrests weren't against me, but each time there was something that solve it somehow. So the first couple of Earths weren't actually when, when my late husband was detained, he he made a kind of deal with them that, okay, he will give all the information, everything about his activism in return. They, they canceled the arrest warrant against me. Then literally, until now, I don't know how it was solved. Like I, I had to sleep in garden with my cats for many nights. I i spent couple of months that I cannot go to any like to family, be house or to friend house, because I will cause problem for them, my my parents, my brother and sister, and even, like my sister, ex, until like just three months before the fall of the Syrian regime, they were under like, investigation By the security, lot of harassment against them so, but I don't know, like, I'm, I'm survive for a reason that I don't really realize how, Michael Hingson  41:52 wow, it, it's, it certainly is pretty amazing. Did you ever write a book or anything about all of this, Noura Ghazi  42:02 I used to write, always the only book like, let's say, literature or emotional book. It was about love in prison. Its name is waiting. And I wrote this book in English and basil. My late husband translated it. Sorry. I wrote it in Arabic, and Basset translated it into English in prison. So it was a process of smuggling the poems in Arabic and smuggling the them in English, again out of the prison. And we published the book online just after basil disappearance in 2015 then we created the the hard copies, and I did the signature in in Beirut in, like, early 2018 but like, it's, it's online, and it's a very, like light book, let's say very romantic. It's about love in prison. I'm really keen to write again, like maybe a kind of self narrative or about the stories that I lived and i i I heard during my my journey. Unfortunately, like to write needs like this a little stable situation, but I did write many like legal or human rights book or like guides or studies, etc. Michael Hingson  43:34 Now is waiting still available online? Noura Ghazi  43:37 Yes, it's still available online. Michael Hingson  43:40 Okay? It would be great if you could, if you have a picture of the book cover, if you could send that to me, because I'd like to put that in the notes. I would appreciate it if you would, okay, for sure. But anyway, so the the company you founded, what is it called Noura Ghazi  44:02 it's a non government, a non profit organization. Its name is no photo zone. Michael Hingson  44:07 And how did you come up with that name? Noura Ghazi  44:12 It was Vasil who come up with this name, because our main focus is on prisoners of conscious and disappeared. So for him, it was that okay, those places that they put disappeared in them. They are they. There is no cameras to show the others what is happening. So we should be the the like in the place of cameras to tell the world what is happening. So that's why no photos on me, like, means that prisons or like unofficial detention centers, because they're it's an all photo zone, right? Michael Hingson  44:54 And no photo zone is is still operating today. Noura Ghazi  44:58 It's still operating. We are extending our work, although, like we have lots of financial challenges because of, like, funds issues, but for us, the main issue, we provide legal services to victims of torture, detention, disappearance and their families. So we operate in Syria, Lebanon and Turkey. We are a French woman led organization, but we have registration in Turkey and Syria, and like in seven years now, almost seven years, we could provide our services to more than 3000 families who most of them are women, and they are responsible about kids who they don't have fathers. So we defend political prisoners. We search the disappeared. We provide the legal services related to personal and civil status. We provided the services related to identification documents, because it's a very big issue in Syria. Beside we provide rehabilitation, like full rehabilitation programs for survivors of detention or torture, and also advocacy. Of course, it's a very important part of our our work, even with the lack of fund, we've decided in the team, because most of the team, or all the team, they they were themselves victims of detention, or family members of victims, even the non Syrian because we have many non Syrian member in the team. So for us, it's a cause. It's not like a work that we're doing and getting paid. So we're, we're suffering this this year with the fund issues, because there is a lot of change related to the world and Syrian issues, which affected the fund policies. So hopefully we'll be, we'll be fine next year, hopefully, and we're trying to survive with our beneficiaries this year, Michael Hingson  47:02 yeah, well, you, you started receiving, and I assume no photo zone started receiving awards, and eventually you moved out of Lebanon. Tell me more about all of that. Noura Ghazi  47:16 During my journey, I I got many international recognition or a word, including two by Amnesty International. But after almost two years, like just after covid, like the start of covid, I was thinking that I should have another residence permit in another country because, like, it became very difficult for Syrians to get a residence in Lebanon. So I I moved to Turkey, and I was between Lebanon and Turkey. Then I got a call from the French Embassy in Turkey telling me that there is a new kind of a word, which is Marianne award, or Marianne program, that initiated by the French president. And they it's for human rights defenders across the world, and they will give this award for 15 human rights defender from 15 country. And I was listening, I thought they want me to nominate someone. Then they told me that the French government are honored to choose you as a Syrian human rights defender. So it was a program for six months, so I moved to Paris with my cat and dog. Then they extended the program and to become nine months. And at the almost at the end of the program, the both of Lebanese and Turkish authorities refused to renew my residence permit, so I had to stay in France to apply for asylum and a political refugee currently. Michael Hingson  49:10 And so you're in France. Are you still in Paris? Noura Ghazi  49:13 I'm still yes in Paris. I learned French very fast, like in four months. Okay, I'm not perfect, but I learned French. Michael Hingson  49:25 So what did your dog and cat think about all that? Sorry, what did your dog and cat think about moving to France? Noura Ghazi  49:33 They are French, actually, originally, they are friends. Michael Hingson  49:36 Oh, there you go. Noura Ghazi  49:38 My, my poor dog had like he he was English educated, so we used to communicate in English. Then when I was still in Lebanon, I thought, okay, a lot of Syrians are coming to my place, and they don't speak English, so I have to teach him Arabic. Then we moved to Turkish. So I had to teach him Turkish. Then we came to. France. So now my dog understand more than four languages, Michael Hingson  50:06 good for him, and and, of course, your cat is really the boss of the whole thing, right? Noura Ghazi  50:12 Of course, she is like, the center of the universe, Michael Hingson  50:16 yeah, yeah, just ask her. She'll tell you. And she's Noura Ghazi  50:20 very white, so she is 14 years. Oh, it's old, yes. Michael Hingson  50:29 Well, I have a cat we rescued in 2015 we think she was five then. So we think that my cat is 15 going on 16. So, and she moves around and does very well. Noura Ghazi  50:46 Yeah, my cat as well. Michael Hingson  50:49 Yeah. Well, that's the way it should be. So with all the things that you've been dealing with and all the stress, have you had? Noura Ghazi  50:59 PTSD, yes, I started, of course, like it's the minimum, actually, I have PTSD and the TSD, and I started to feel, or let's say, I could know that the what is happening with me is PTSD two years ago. I before, like, couple of months before, I started to feel like something unusual in my body, in my mind. At the beginning, we thought there is a problem in the brain. Then the psychologist and psychiatrist said that it's a huge level of PTSD, which is like the minimum, and like, we should start the journey of of treatment, which is like the behavior treatment and medical treatment as well. Like, some people could stay 10 years. Some people need to go to hospital. It's not the best thing, but sometimes I feel I'm grateful that I'm having PTSD because I'm able to deal with people who are in the same situation. I could feel them, understand them, so I could help them more, because I understand and as a human rights defender and like victim of lot of kind of violations, so I'm very aware about the like, let's call it the first aid, the psychological first aid support. And this is helpful somehow. Okay, I'm suffering, but this suffering is useful for others Michael Hingson  52:47 well and clearly, you are at a point where you can talk about it, which says a lot, because you're able to deal with it well enough to be able to talk about it, which I think is probably pretty important, don't you think? Noura Ghazi  53:03 Yeah, actually, the last at the first time I talked about it very publicly in a conference in Stockholm, it was last October, and then I thought it's important to talk about it. And I'm also thinking to do something more about PTSD, especially the PTSD related to to prisons, torture, etc, this kind of violations, because sharing experience is very important. So I'm still thinking about a kind of certain way to to like, to spread my experience with PTSD, especially that I have lot of changes in in my life recently, because I got married again, and even the the good incident that people who have PTSD, even if they have, like good incident, but it cause a kind of escalation with PTSD, Michael Hingson  54:00 yeah, but you got married again, so you have somebody you can talk with. Noura Ghazi  54:06 Yes, I got married five months ago. The most important that I could fall in love again. So I met my husband in in Paris. He's a Lebanese artist who live in Paris. And yeah, I have, I have a family now, like we have now three cats and a dog and us as couple. But it's very new for me, like this kind of marriage, that a marriage which I live with a partner, because the marriage I used to is that visit the husband in prison. I'm getting used to it. Michael Hingson  54:43 And just as always, the cat runs everything, right? Yes, of course, of course. So tell me about the freedom prize in Normandy. Noura Ghazi  54:55 Oh, it was like one of the best thing I had in my life. I. Was nominated for the freedom prize, which is launched by usually they are like young people who who nominate the the nominees for this prize, but it's launched by the government of Normandy region in France and the International Institute for Human Rights and peace. So among hundreds of files and, like many kind of round of, like short listing, there was me, a Belarusian activist who is detained, and a Palestinian photographer. So like, just knowing that I was nominated among more than 700 person was a privilege for me. The winner was the Palestinian photographer, but it was the first time they invite the other nominee to the celebration, which was on the same date of like liberating Normandy region during the Second World War. So I chose, I thought for my for couple of days about what I will wear, because I need to deliver a message. So I, I I came up with an idea about a white dress with 101 names in blue. Those names are for disappeared and detainees in Syria. So like there was, there was seven persons who worked on this dress, and I had the chance to wear it and to deliver my message and to give a speech in a very important day that even like those fighters during the Second World War who are still alive, they they came from us. They came from lot of countries. I had the privilege to see them directly, to touch them, to tell them thank you, and to deliver my message in front of an audience of 4500 persons. And it's like I love this dress, and like this event was one of the best thing I had in my life. Michael Hingson  57:21 Do you have a picture of you in the dress? Yes, I would think you do. Well, if you want, we'd love to put that in the show notes as well, especially because you're honoring all those people with the names and so on. Kind of cool. Well, okay, so, so Syria, you're, you're saying, in a lot of ways, hasn't, hasn't really changed a whole lot. It's, it's still a lot of dictatorship oriented kinds of things, and they discriminate against certain sex and and so on. And that's extremely unfortunate, because I don't think that that's the impression that people have over here, Noura Ghazi  58:02 exactly I had a chance to visit Syria, a kind of exceptional visit by the French government, because, as political refugees were not allowed to visit our country of origin. And of course, like after eight years, like out of Syria after six years without seeing my family. Of course, I was very happy, but I was very traumatized, and I I came back to Paris in in July 21 and since that time, I feel I'm not the same person before going to Syria. I'm full of frustration. I feel that, okay, I just wasted 14 years of my life for nothing. But hopefully I'm I'm trying to get better because okay, I know, like much of human rights violations mean that my kind of work and activism is more needed, yeah, Michael Hingson  59:03 so you'll so you'll continue to speak out and and fight for freedom. Noura Ghazi  59:10 Yes, I continue, and I will continue fighting for freedom, for dignity, for justice, for civil rights, and also raising awareness about PTSD and how we could invest even our pain for the sake of helping others. Michael Hingson  59:29 Well, I want to tell you that it's been an honor to have you on the podcast, and I am so glad we we got a chance to talk and to do this because having met you previously, in our introductory conversation, it was very clear that there was a story that needed to be told, and I hope that a lot of people will take an interest, and that it will will allow what you do to continue to grow, if people would like to reach out to you. And and help or learn more. How do they do that? Noura Ghazi  1:00:05 We you have the the link of my website that people could connect me, because it includes my my email, my personal email, and I always reply. So I'm happy to to talk with the to contact with people, and it also include all the all my social media, Michael Hingson  1:00:23 right? What? What's the website for? No photo zone. Noura Ghazi  1:00:27 It's no photo zone.org. No photo zone.org. Michael Hingson  1:00:30 I thought it was, but I just wanted you to say it. I wanted you to say it. Noura Ghazi  1:00:35 It's included in my website. Michael Hingson  1:00:37 Yeah, I've got it all and and it will all be in the show notes, but I just thought I would get you to say no photo zone.org Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a wonderful time to have a chance to talk, and I appreciate you taking the time to, I hope, educate lots of people. So thank you very much for doing that, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching. We'd love you to give us a five star rating. Give us a review. We really appreciate ratings and reviews. So wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast, please give us a five star rating. Please review the podcast for us. We value that, and I know that Nora will will appreciate that as well. Also, if you if you know any guests, and Nora you as well, if you know anyone who you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, we would really appreciate it. If you would let us know you can reach me. At Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts about the podcast. So Nora, very much my I want to thank you again. This has been great. Thank you very much for being here. Noura Ghazi  1:01:56 Thank you Michael, and thank you for those who are listening, and we're still in touch.

Thomas English talks with a guest from the National Federation of the Blind about the ABLE Act and financial accounts that can be used. The guest is Vernon County resident and member of the National Federation of the Blind Dan Keller. He explains what the ABLE Act is and how the ABLE accounts were created. He details different expenses the account funds can be used for. He also highlights the importance of the accounts and how they benefit the disabled community. 

For over a decade, blind and visually impaired people throughout New York City have had the opportunity to play the game of tennis. Launched in 2015 and presented by Court 16, Sound of Tennis offers once-per-week sessions, enabling blind and visually impaired people to learn, practice, and play full games of tennis through sound.  Now, in 2026, Sound of Tennis partnered with a Court 16 location in Philadelphia, offering the same opportunity for Philadelphia residents as well! Join Simon Bonenfant, on this inaugural episode of his new series entitled Simon's Studio, as he takes you through all the details.  You'll hear from Maureen Holtz, Community Relations and Events Manager at Court 16, as well as Hildy Morales, an administrative assistant and avid tennis player. Maureen and Hildy share how both Court 16 and Sound of Tennis were founded and have evolved, their unique journeys of involvement in the program, the strong bond of camaraderie amongst players, and how you can become involved here in Philly!  To learn more about Sound of Tennis at https://www.court16foundation.org/sound-of-tennis. Sessions will take place weekly on Monday's from 12 to 1 PM, at Court 16, 1400 n. Howard Street, Philadelphia, PA, 19122. To learn more about participating, please direct all inquiries to Leila Mueller by sending an email to leilacolan@gmail.com Have you attended any Sound of Tennis events? We want to hear from you! Give us a call at 267.338.4495, or send us an email at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com  Read notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/150.           Apply for a $10,000 National Scholarship The National Federation of the Blind is accepting applications for the 2026 NFB Scholarship Program. We offer an array of scholarships to blind students to support their educational and professional goals. In addition to the $10,000 cash award, each recipient receives funding to attend our national convention, opportunities to network with other blind students, and avenues to connect with hundreds of blind professionals. Learn more and apply at https://nfb.org/programs-services/scholarships-and-awards/scholarship-program. Application deadline is March 31, 2026. NFB National Convention July 3-8 in Austin This year's National Convention is in Austin, Texas, from July 3-8. Learn more about the 2026 NFB National Convention at https://nfb.org/convention. Call 800-627-7468 to book your room. The main hotel is the JW Marriott. The spillover hotel is the Austin Marriott Downtown. Use the room block code, BL1, to ensure you receive the convention room rate. Jernigan Scholarships for National Convention If you have never been to a National Convention, you can apply for a Jernigan Convention Scholarship by going to https://www.nfbofpa.org/jernigan. Good luck! Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.

Imagine a blueprint for remaking America's government from the ground up, drawn by conservative architects at the Heritage Foundation. That's Project 2025, launched in April 2023 with its 900-page Mandate for Leadership, aiming to consolidate power in the president's hands through the unitary executive theory. According to the Heritage Foundation's own document, it unites hundreds of volunteers to advance "positive change for America" by replacing civil servants with loyalists and dismantling agencies.Key proposals target federal agencies head-on. The plan calls for abolishing the Department of Education, shifting programs like the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to Health and Human Services, and limiting federal civil rights enforcement in schools to courtroom battles only. "The federal government should be no more than a statistics-keeping organization when it comes to education," the Mandate states, prioritizing school choice over what it deems "woke propaganda." Similarly, it seeks to eliminate the Department of Homeland Security, folding immigration functions into a new agency, while shrinking the FBI and DOJ under direct White House oversight. The National Federation of Federal Employees warns this Schedule F scheme would reclassify tens of thousands of apolitical workers as at-will political appointees, stripping protections against abuse.Tax cuts for corporations, a flat income tax, Medicaid caps, and repealing Biden's Inflation Reduction Act round out economic reforms. Experts like the ACLU highlight risks: centralizing control could weaponize agencies against reproductive rights, immigrants, and racial equity.By February 2026, as the Center for Progressive Reform's tracker reports, the Trump administration has enacted 53 percent of these domestic policies, with over 213,000 civil servants exiting via buyouts and firings, per the Partnership for Public Service. This illustrates Project 2025's ambition—to reverse decades of bureaucracy for agile, conservative governance—yet critics fear eroded checks and balances.Looking ahead, upcoming milestones hinge on congressional battles over funding and court challenges to Schedule F. Will this reshape American democracy, or spark backlash?Thank you for tuning in, listeners. Come back next week for more.Some great Deals https://amzn.to/49SJ3QsFor more check out http://www.quietplease.aiThis content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

What if blindness wasn't a limitation but a blessing? In this conversation, I talk with Mel Stephens from Australia, a third-generation blind woman living with Rod Cone Dystrophy who believes blindness has given her more gifts than loss. We explore accessibility, guide dogs, mainstream education, Braille literacy, technology, YouTube, independence, discrimination, and what it really means to have a different ability. Mel shares how she built a life around horses, travel, cruising, and running a business, while pushing back against outdated views of blindness. You will hear honest insights about mindset, community acceptance, blind skills, and why learning Braille and orientation mobility still matter in a high-tech world. I believe you will find this both practical and deeply encouraging. Highlights: 00:09 – Hear why blindness is described as a blessing rather than a tragedy. 03:09 – Discover why the real challenge is public perception, not vision loss itself. 11:13 – Learn how mainstream schooling built independence and strong blind skills. 25:17 – Explore the difference between disability and different ability. 50:20 – Understand why relying too much on technology can weaken core mobility skills. 1:01:13 – Get direct advice for anyone losing eyesight or raising a blind child. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: Mel Stephens is a third-generation blind YouTuber from Australia. With parents who are both blind or vision impaired, she grew up learning to stand on her own two feet. A proud guide dog handler, Mel is now teamed up with her second dog, Penelope. She's always been an animal lover—mad for cats, dogs, and horses—and has two of her own, Maggie and Abby. To her knowledge, she's one of the only blind Aussies to rescue and rehabilitate a horse, which she reckons is a pretty fair dinkum achievement. A country girl through and through, Mel has spent most of her life in towns with fewer than 5,000 people, and there's no way you'll catch her living in the big smoke. That said, she does love a yearly trip to Sydney, where she soaks up the atmosphere of the footy and the city buzz—though after a week she's happy to nick off back to the quiet life. When she's not looking after her animals or working as a PA for an orientation and mobility instructor, Mel's usually off travelling. She's train-mad—can't get enough of them—and throws in the odd cruise for good measure. Her adventures are made possible thanks to skills she's built since she was a kid, including mental mapping, echolocation, and her trusty guide dog partnership. Mel doesn't reckon blindness is a disability at all—it's just another way of seeing the world. With a positive, no-worries attitude, she loves showing others that people who are blind or vision impaired can do pretty much anything if given the chance. Ways to connect with Mel**:** Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melsblindlife/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Personal-Blog/Mels-Blind-Life-1326898004158153/ Blog: https://melsblindlife.wordpress.com/author/mickmate9/ Guide Dog Penelope Instagram: https://instagram.com/guidedogpenelope?utm_medium=copy_link Guide Dog Penelope FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/pennyguidedog/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

From Sacred Heart school in EGF, both were chosen to be on the National Federation for Catholic Youth Ministries youth advisory board

What happens when a thriving performing arts career collides with a rare autoimmune disease? In this episode, I talk with Theresa Hill-Putnam about resilience, myasthenia gravis, positive thinking, and building an unstoppable mindset. Theresa owned a large performing arts school for 35 years before COVID and health risks forced her to pivot to virtual teaching. She shares how she was diagnosed after respiratory failure, how she learned to take life one day at a time, and why she believes in flipping the script when challenges hit. We also discuss empowerment coaching, motivational speaking, raising confident children, and her nonprofit, Performers with Purpose Foundation. Theresa's story proves that setbacks can become stepping stones when you choose growth, purpose, and persistence. I believe you will find this conversation both practical and inspiring. Highlights: 00:56 Learn how early dance training helped her overcome childhood shyness and build confidence. 05:03 Hear how a sudden health collapse led to a myasthenia gravis diagnosis. 12:33 Discover why taking one day at a time became her key to resilience. 20:05 Understand why she refused to quit despite being told to go on disability. 22:58 See how COVID forced a rapid shift to virtual teaching and musicals. 56:50 Learn how her nonprofit now provides thousands of Christmas gifts to children in need. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: After Owning and Directing a large performing Arts School for over 35 years, Teresa Hill-Putnam is now a Performance Coach & Empowerment CoachinLos Angeles, California. Teresa is also a published author, Motivational Speaker, and Special Events Coordinator. Teresa has been teaching since 1985. She now coaches singers, actors, dancers, and performers from all around the world. She helps artists master their skills, materials, and mindset. Teresa has helped hundreds of artists develop their talents, follow their dreams, and successfully pursue their career goal. In 1999, Teresa got very sick. In less than a week, she went from being able to dance and hold her leg above her head, to not being able to sit up, roll over, or even feed herself. She was in and out of the hospital for 18 months before she was finally diagnosed with a chronic neuro-muscular disease called Myasthenia Gravis. Teresa has learned to take one day at a time and make the most out of every day. Today, Teresa is happy and healthy. Most people do not even know that she has Myasthenia Gravis. Teresa believes that everyone has a story. She hopes to inspire others by sharing hers. Teresa has published eight books and has a podcast called "Overcoming Obstacles Through Positive Thinking." She has even been featured in in several documentaries. In 2018, Teresa helped to create non-profit called the Performers With Purpose Foundation. She directs performances year-round to help raise money for important community causes. Teresa's favorite project is the PWP annual “Sub for Santa” project. Each year, the Performers With Purpose Foundation provides gifts, toys, and clothing to underprivileged children during the holiday season. After years of being a single, working mom living with a chronic illness, Teresa understands how difficult the holiday season can be for struggling families. Being able to “adopt” families that need help brings Teresa an immense amount of joy! Teresa's most important accomplishment is being a Mom and a "Grammy." Teresa raised her own three children to become happy, healthy, and successful adults. Her oldest daughter owns a Performing Arts School in Denver and has two adorable little boys. Her son is in the United States Air Force and has two darling little boys and a beautiful baby girl. Teresa's youngest daughter, Amber Mackenzie, is a professional actor, singer, dancer and screenwriter. Teresa currently works as Amber's Performance Coach and Booking Manager. Teresa uses her experiences as a mother, "Grammy," teacher, patient, coach, and entrepreneur to help inspire, guide, challenge, motivate, support, and encourage others toward success. Ways to connect with Teresa**:** Teresa's website:  www.spotlightperformers.com Performers With Purpose Foundation website: www.performerswithpurposefoundation.com. Teresa's podcast,, can be found on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, You Tube, or your favorite streaming platform. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAIx8SkZwXXPdNOkzPNHJZFwYne7yo3oG&si=d1yL7Sp4FNRLXdmS Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teresa.hillputnam?mibextid=wwXIfr&mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teresahillputnam?igsh=eTJwazg1enRkb3N2&utm_source=qr LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-hill-putnam-4bb92941?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

In our first full episode featuring a person with a disability who is not blind, Lizzy and Rachel discuss various types of balance in life that are more metaphorical than physical. A distinguished violinist who has played in various orchestras and been featured on tons of media outlets., Rachel describes a very cool looking violin, what it's like to play in arenas across America, and how she met NFBPAD‘s very own Leslie Hamrick. Stay tuned for a musical interlude and a bonus track featuring Leslie! This is an episode you won't want to miss as it is Rachel‘s first time opening up about her disability with the love, hope, and determination that runs through the NFB and this podcast!Song credits:Violin Concertos by Black Composers Through the CenturiesRachel Barton Pine, violinCedille Records CDR 90000 214Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges: Violin Concertoin A major, Op. 5, No. 2 (23:44)José White Lafitte: Violin Concerto in F-sharp minor (21:32)Samuel Coleridge-Taylor: Romance in G major for Violinand Orchestra, Op. 39 (12:32)Encore Chamber Orchestra,Daniel Hege, conductorFlorence Price: Violin Concerto No. 2 (14:42)Royal Scottish National Orchestra,Jonathon Heyward, conductorConnect with the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division!Website: www.nfb-pad.orgLike us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/PerformingArtsDivisionFollow us on X: @NFB_PAD

Sunday Edition Presents: A Conversation with Kevin and Sarah LaRoseBy: Anthony Corona Air Date: February 15 In this heartfelt and deeply layered conversation, we sit down with Kevin and Sarah LaRose to talk about life, love, blindness and vision loss, faith held onto, faith practiced, faith questioned and faith reclaimed. For years we have corresponded, supported and amplified one another's work across advocacy spaces and community conversations. It was long past time that we sat down together not only as colleagues in the work, but as friends and partners in shared purpose. Sarah and Kevin have been married since 2012. They first met in 1998 while participating in advocacy activities online and through the American Council of the Blind. What began as shared advocacy grew into shared life. Kevin is a lover of history and politics, an enthusiastic home cook, an avid podcast listener and the kind of reader who juggles three books at once. A gifted wordsmith, he describes himself as an introvert, yet he is also a generous encourager who offers thoughtful compliments with sincerity and care. Sarah taught biblical languages at Anderson University from 2015 to 2024 and received the Jacob Bolotin Award from the National Federation of the Blind in 2016. She now works as a braille transcriber for JBI Library. In her memoir, Past the Gray Curtain, she offers a deeply personal reflection on faith, identity and lived experience. You can learn more about Sarah and her work at http://www.sarahblakelarose.com and explore Kevin's work at http://www.kevinlarose.net. While there are many memoirs available today, this is a beautifully written, thoughtfully presented and deeply thought provoking work. Supporting one another is not only about hitting a like button or sharing a post. It is also about showing up through action. Please consider purchasing Sarah's book today and investing in the powerful storytelling and lived experience she so generously shares. During our conversation, we explore navigating blindness and vision loss within faith communities, translating belief into lived practice in a modern world and the quiet courage it takes to wrestle with doubt while holding onto hope. Gabriel Lopez Kafati joins us for part of the conversation as we begin teasing an upcoming six week series of Thursday night discussions leading up to and through the Lenten season and Easter. Together we talk about what it means to translate faith into action and compassion in today's world. This episode is thoughtful, honest and grounded in lived experience. It is a conversation about partnership, calling and the ongoing journey of becoming. For everything Sunday Edition and the Sunday Edition family of podcast and digital media content services, including links to our shows, socials, special events and Anthony's Substack, visit www.anthonycorona.com. If you value the work we are doing, please consider supporting us. You can tip in the tip jar wherever you listen to your podcasts, or head over to Anthony's Substack. Links can be found at www.anthonycorona.com. Thank you for being part of this growing, thoughtful and engaged community. Sent from my iPhone pisode Notes Notes go here Support Sunday Edition with Anthony Corona by contributing to their tip jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/acb-sunday-edition This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

What if the hardest limits in your life were the ones you placed on yourself? In this episode, I talk with Mitzi Ocasio, host of the “Mitzi, Let's Think About It” podcast and author of four children's books, about overcoming self-doubt, managing time as a mom and creator, and building a brand rooted in curiosity and trust. Mitzi shares how growing up in shelters shaped her humility, how she learned to see her platform as a blessing instead of pressure, and why thinking deeply can change your mental health and relationships. You will hear how she built an award-winning podcast, how she handles criticism, and why grace matters more than judgment. I believe you will find this conversation both practical and inspiring as you reflect on your own mindset. Highlights: 00:02 – How financial hardship built her grit. 03:20 – How constant moves shaped her resilience. 16:07 – Why she launched her podcast in 2020. 23:16 – How she overcame self-doubt. 27:39 – The mindset shift that changed everything. 31:26 – The best advice she got about building a brand. 49:22 – What people get wrong about podcasting. 56:35 – The deeper message behind her novel. About the Guest: Mitzi is an avid advocate for holistic well-being and the host of the "Mitzi, Let's Think About It" Podcast. In her podcast, she delves into topics such as mental health, mindfulness, and personal development, exploring the wonders and challenges of living a healthy, balanced life. Through coursework in psychology, Mitzi has developed an understanding of human behavior and decision-making, while also building a solid foundation in analysis. This dual perspective allows her to approach problems from both a human-centric and data-driven angle. She has dedicated her time to understanding the interconnectedness of mind, body, and spirit. Each week, she presents insightful conversations with experts, thought leaders, and everyday heroes. These conversations have provided valuable insights on topics such as stress management, emotional intelligence, and the power of positive thinking, inspiring and empowering us on our wellness journey. Mitzi is also a self-published author of 4 children's books. She firmly believes that by encouraging children to think differently and more consciously, we can steer the future towards a positive trajectory. She is a strong advocate for the power of our thoughts and the words we choose, as they ultimately shape our lives. When she is not engrossed in her podcast or penning children's stories, Mitzi is a mother to two young boys under four years old, a dog, a cat, and a couple of fish. Her role as a wife to her husband is equally significant. She manages these responsibilities while ensuring a clean, safe home environment for her family to thrive in. Mitzi tries to inspire others not only to think, but to tap into critical thinking. So others' perspective can change their lives into something they never thought about before. Ways to connect with Mitzi**:** Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Mitzi-Think-Inc/100064244280126/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mitzithinkinc X (Twitter): https://x.com/MitziThinkInc LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitzi-ocasio-3a343a24b/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Kevin takes a look at some important policies/regulations and legislative wins during the first year of President Trump's 2nd term; the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) released the Nonfarm Payrolls Report; BLS also released the Unemployment Rate and Labor Participation Rate; the National Federation of Independent Business released the January Small Business Economic Trends (SBET) Report aka January Small Business Optimism Index; Kevin has the details, digs into the details, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and offers a few opinions along the way. 

Dana Pappas is a HALL OF FAME Administrator and she's the Director of Officiating Services for the National Federation of High Schools. Dana shares her journey and some of her Best Practices on this episode of TECH TUESDAY on The Educational AD Podcast!

Fear silences more people than failure ever could. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with world-class speaking coach and author Robert Begley to explore why trust, clarity, and moral character matter more than polished delivery. Robert shares how his journey from a stage-frightened kid in New York to coaching powerful speakers was shaped by Aristotle's timeless principles of ethos, pathos, and logos. Together, we talk about why audiences want conversation, not performance, how stories build trust faster than facts, and why learning to control fear instead of avoiding it changes how you lead, sell, and speak. This is a practical and thoughtful conversation about using your voice with purpose in a distracted and divided world. Highlights: 00:10 – Why trust and character matter more than polish when you speak03:41 – How timeless principles from history still shape powerful communication today08:51 – Why authenticity is essential in an AI-driven, distracted world13:44 – How fear of embarrassment silences people before they ever use their voice17:33 – What speakers can listen for to know if an audience is truly engaged25:06 – Why fear of public speaking is really a thinking problem, not a talent issue33:16 – How storytelling helps messages stay memorable long after the talk ends40:00 – Why learning to control fear, not avoid it, leads to stronger leadership and confidence About the Guest: Robert Begley is a world-class speaking coach, keynote speaker, author, and founder of Speaking With Purpose LLC. With more than 15 years of experience transforming lives through the power of effective communication, Robert helps entrepreneurs, executives, and emerging leaders craft unforgettable presentations that inspire action and drive results. A native New Yorker who once struggled to command the stage, Robert learned to conquer his fear of public speaking and now coaches others to do the same. He has delivered hundreds of presentations across the U.S. and coached NYPD officers, immigrants from tyrannical regimes, Fortune 500 executives, and business owners to speak with purpose, power, and persuasion. Robert is the author of Voices of Reason: Lesso ns for Liberty's Leaders (Indie Books International, 2025), a book that blends public speaking mastery with historical analysis. Drawing on Aristotle's rhetorical principles—ethos, logos, and pathos—he dissects the speeches of iconic figures like Patrick Henry, Frederick Douglass, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Ayn Rand, Martin Luther King Jr., and Magatte Wade to teach timeless lessons for courageous leadership in today's context. He leads multiple coaching programs including Voices of the American Dream, for immigrants learning to share their personal stories, and Elite Speakers Forum, where rising communicators develop their craft in a supportive community. Robert has also partnered with global organizations like Students For Liberty and Liberty Ventures to teach persuasive speaking to international student leaders and business executives. Robert now lives in Orlando, Florida, with the love of his life, Carrie-Ann. When he's not coaching speakers or crafting keynotes, you might find him running Spartan Races, reflecting on philosophy, or attending rock concerts or ballet performances. Ways to connect with Robert**:**

Today, I am joined by Marcel Baettig, artist, cultural leader, and founder and CEO of Bow Arts, one of London's most influential arts and education charities. Over three decades, Marcel has quietly built a values-led social enterprise that provides affordable studios and housing for artists, reaches tens of thousands of young people, and continually reinvests in local communities. This conversation isn't just about scale or success. It´s about precarity, why artists need infrastructure as much as inspiration, and how Marcel's own experience of working as an artist shaped Bow Arts. We explore leadership without ego, the long game of cultural change, and why we need to stop treating artists as an afterthought in regeneration. This episode is for anyone who's ever felt the system is stacked against them - and wondered what it looks like to build a different one. KEY TAKEAWAYS We need to stop accepting scarcity as inevitable, to question who systems are really designed for - building a better art world is not a theoretical exercise. It's a daily practice. Sustainable creative lives are built through shared responsibility and leaders who remember what it feels like to be at the kitchen table wondering how the rent will get paid and still choosing to make the work. If we want artists to survive, we must design practical, long-term infrastructure - affordable space, stable income pathways, and owned assets, not just offer prestige moments or short-term opportunities. BEST MOMENTS “Artists thrive when they are trusted, resourced, and rooted in their communities.” “Artists don't just need opportunities. They need conditions. Time. Space. Stability and a sense their contribution to society is not decorative, but essential.”   THE GUEST Marcel Baettig is the Founder and CEO of Bow Arts, a pioneering London charity providing affordable, sustainable spaces for artists to live and work while contributing to their local communities. Originally trained as an artist, he founded Bow Arts in 1994, and it now supports over 1,100 artists across London, runs a major learning programme that reaches tens of thousands of young people, and reinvests significant funds into local cultural life. He is also a founding director of the National Federation of Artist Studio Providers and has advised bodies including the Mayor of London, Arts Council England, and DCMS on creative workspace and cultural regeneration.  https://www.linkedin.com/company/1639152 https://www.facebook.com/bowarts/?locale=en_GB https://bowarts.org/ HOST BIO With over 35 years in the art world, Ceri has worked closely with leading artists and arts professionals, managed public and private galleries and charities, and curated more than 250 exhibitions and events. She has sold artworks to major museums and private collectors and commissioned thousands of works across diverse media, from renowned artists such as John Akomfrah, Pipilotti Rist, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer and Vito Acconci. Now, she wants to share her extensive knowledge with you, so you can excel and achieve your goals. ** Ceri Hand Coaching Membership: Group coaching, live art surgeries, exclusive masterclasses, portfolio reviews, weekly challenges. Access our library of content and resource hub anytime and enjoy special discounts within a vibrant community of peers and professionals. Ready to transform your art career? Join today! https://cerihand.com/membership/ ** Unlock Your Artworld Network Self Study Course Our self-study video course, "Unlock Your Artworld Network," offers a straightforward 5-step framework to help you build valuable relationships effortlessly. Gain the tools and confidence you need to create new opportunities and thrive in the art world today. https://cerihand.com/courses/unlock_your_artworld_network/ ** Book a Discovery Call Today To schedule a personalised 1-2-1 coaching session with Ceri or explore our group coaching options, simply email us at hello@cerihand.com

In this episode of White Canes Connect, David Goldstein sits down with Noor Krraisat, a national scholarship finalist and President of the Pennsylvania Association of Blind Students. Noor shares her journey as a blind college student, future law school applicant, and emerging leader within the National Federation of the Blind. Noor walks us through the entire National Federation of the Blind scholarship experience—from applying and getting the call, to traveling independently to National Convention and navigating a packed, high-stakes week as a finalist. With the scholarship now valued at $10,000, this conversation offers an inside look at what applicants can expect and why this opportunity is about far more than money. You'll hear how the scholarship opens doors to mentorship, community, confidence, and leadership—and how one week at convention can redefine what's possible. Noor explains why every eligible student should apply, how the experience accelerated her involvement in NABS and affiliate leadership, and why the real return on this scholarship lasts long after the check is cashed. What You'll Learn What the NFB scholarship application process is really like What happens after you get the call and become a finalist Why National Convention is a transformative experience for blind students How the $10,000 scholarship can be used—and why the money isn't the best part How scholarships can launch long-term leadership within the Federation Show notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/149           Apply for a $10,000 National Scholarship The National Federation of the Blind is accepting applications for the 2026 NFB Scholarship Program. We offer an array of scholarships to blind students to support their educational and professional goals. In addition to the $10,000 cash award, each recipient receives funding to attend our national convention, opportunities to network with other blind students, and avenues to connect with hundreds of blind professionals. Learn more and apply at https://nfb.org/programs-services/scholarships-and-awards/scholarship-program. Application deadline is March 31, 2026. NFB National Convention July 3-8 in Austin This year's National Convention is in Austin, Texas, from July 3-8. Learn more about the 2026 NFB National Convention at https://nfb.org/convention. Call 800-627-7468 to book your room. The main hotel is the JW Marriott. The spillover hotel is the Austin Marriott Downtown. Use the room block code, BL1, to ensure you receive the convention room rate. Jernigan Scholarships for National Convention If you have never been to a National Convention, you can apply for a Jernigan Convention Scholarship by going to https://www.nfbofpa.org/jernigan. Good luck! Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. We Want to Hear Your Story Reach out with questions and comments, or share ideas! We want to hear from you. Call us at (267) 338-4495 or at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.

Welcome back to the Hangin' with the AD Podcast. In this episode, we're joined by Rob Seymour, an athletic director at Fishers High School in Fishers, Indiana, where he has served since 2014. Rob is the past president of the Indiana Interscholastic Athletic Administrators Association, a member of the NIAAA national teaching faculty for LTC 714, and an National Federation of State High School Associations Level 3 certified coach. In this conversation, Rob shares his “back of the baseball card” story, explains how he uniquely shares the AD role at Fishers, and offers insights on culture change through the lens of Indiana football, purpose-driven leadership, and game-day event management as hospitality inspired by Unreasonable Hospitality. We also dive deep into AI—why Rob embraced it early, how he's using it today for visuals, videos, and daily AD work, how to educate coaches in a rapidly evolving space, and what athletic administrators may still be overlooking about AI's impact on our profession.

What happens when addiction, loss, and uncertainty collide with discipline, honesty, and trust. In this episode, I sit down with David Price, a visionary CEO who shares his journey from growing up with addicted parents and battling his own drug addiction to building a multi-million-dollar insurance organization in less than a year. David opens up about hitting bottom, finding clarity through recovery, and learning how mindset, patience, and consistency reshaped his life and business. We explore what it really takes to build trust, lead people well, and stay focused when growth feels uncomfortable. This conversation is about resilience, personal responsibility, and why an Unstoppable mindset is built one honest decision at a time. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear how David Price's early life with addicted parents shaped his resilience and stress tolerance03:18 – Learn how growing up unstable planted the seed for David's drive to become a business owner05:01 – Discover the moment David realized addiction was no longer something he could manage alone15:51 – Hear the unexpected reason David walked into a recovery meeting that changed everything24:16 – Learn how small, achievable habits helped David rebuild his life after getting clean37:50 – Understand the hard business lesson David learned after choosing the wrong partner44:34 – Hear how losing six figures of monthly income overnight forced David to rebuild from zero53:49 – Learn why David believes trust is more valuable than money when building an unstoppable business About the Guest: David Price – CEO & Founder, The Price Group IMO David Price is the visionary CEO and Founder of The Price Group IMO, one of the fastest-rising organizations in financial services. His journey to success was anything but ordinary. Growing up in a broken home and battling drug and alcohol addiction for years, David hit rock bottom more than once. In 2013, he made the life-changing decision to get clean and rebuild his life. That moment of clarity became the foundation for everything that followed, teaching him resilience, grit, and an unshakable drive to create a better future. In 2018, David discovered the insurance industry. With no prior experience, he earned his license and built a simple, scalable system that allowed everyday people—single moms, career changers, and those just looking for a side income—to succeed. Within 36 months, he became a millionaire, and by his fourth year he was generating more than $1 million annually. In October 2024, he launched The Price Group IMO, partnering with top carriers and introducing a superior lead program that created even greater opportunities for people to work from home and build real financial freedom. In less than 350 days, the organization produced over $10 million in sales, cementing itself as one of the fastest-growing IMOs in the country. Today, David's mission extends far beyond personal success. He is dedicated to helping people reinvent their lives, showing them how to earn an income, work flexibly from home, and build businesses of their own. Many of the agents and agencies he mentors are already on track to reach six and seven figures, proving the power of his model. Beyond business, David is a member of the Forbes Business Council and an active voice on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and YouTube, where he shares transparent insights, strategies, and motivation for people seeking more freedom, flexibility, and purpose in their careers. Ways to connect with David**:**

Don't just listen, call in with your perspective at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Hour 1 of Rush To Reason opens with signature intensity as John Rush and Andy Peth challenge listeners to question narratives shaping today's culture. From mad cow disease and prion science to a fiery discussion on ICE protests, paid activism, and law enforcement, the hour asks a provocative question: how do you talk to family members—especially younger ones—when politics turns personal and divisive? The conversation digs into freedom vs. force, the rule of law, and why enforcement is being reframed as oppression. Mid-hour, the spotlight shifts to pop culture colliding with politics as Andy reviews Melania. Set during the 20 days leading up to Donald Trump's second inauguration, the film is portrayed as a quiet, meticulous character study of Melania Trump—elegant, disciplined, emotionally reserved, and fiercely self-controlled. Andy contrasts glowing audience reactions with hostile critic reviews, raising a bigger question: is the backlash about filmmaking—or ideology? Fast-paced, provocative, and cinematic, Hour 1 feels less like talk radio and more like a trailer for the cultural battles shaping America right now.

Don't just listen, call in with your perspective at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Hour 1 of Rush To Reason opens with signature intensity as John Rush and Andy Peth challenge listeners to question narratives shaping today's culture. From mad cow disease and prion science to a fiery discussion on ICE protests, paid activism, and law enforcement, the hour asks a provocative question: how do you talk to family members—especially younger ones—when politics turns personal and divisive? The conversation digs into freedom vs. force, the rule of law, and why enforcement is being reframed as oppression. Mid-hour, the spotlight shifts to pop culture colliding with politics as Andy reviews Melania. Set during the 20 days leading up to Donald Trump's second inauguration, the film is portrayed as a quiet, meticulous character study of Melania Trump—elegant, disciplined, emotionally reserved, and fiercely self-controlled. Andy contrasts glowing audience reactions with hostile critic reviews, raising a bigger question: is the backlash about filmmaking—or ideology? Fast-paced, provocative, and cinematic, Hour 1 feels less like talk radio and more like a trailer for the cultural battles shaping America right now.

Don't just listen, call in with your perspective at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday - Friday from 3 pm - 6 pm MT. HOUR 1 Hour 1 of Rush To Reason opens with signature intensity as John Rush and Andy Peth challenge listeners to question narratives shaping today's culture. From mad cow disease and prion science to a fiery discussion on ICE protests, paid activism, and law enforcement, the hour asks a provocative question: how do you talk to family members—especially younger ones—when politics turns personal and divisive? The conversation digs into freedom vs. force, the rule of law, and why enforcement is being reframed as oppression. Mid-hour, the spotlight shifts to pop culture colliding with politics as Andy reviews Melania. Set during the 20 days leading up to Donald Trump's second inauguration, the film is portrayed as a quiet, meticulous character study of Melania Trump—elegant, disciplined, emotionally reserved, and fiercely self-controlled. Andy contrasts glowing audience reactions with hostile critic reviews, raising a bigger question: is the backlash about filmmaking—or ideology? Fast-paced, provocative, and cinematic, Hour 1 feels less like talk radio and more like a trailer for the cultural battles shaping America right now.

What does it really mean to live with an unstoppable mindset when life keeps changing the rules? In this conversation, I had the privilege of talking with Linda MacKenzie, whose life story spans poverty, reinvention, creativity, faith, and deep personal responsibility. Linda grew up in the Bronx with very little, learned resilience early, and carried those lessons into a life that has included engineering, broadcasting, authorship, and decades of work around positivity, healing, and intuition. As we talked, we explored fear not as something that controls us, but as something that can guide us when we learn how to listen. We also discussed the importance of trusting your inner voice, choosing kindness even when it feels difficult, and staying grounded in truth rather than noise or fear. I believe this conversation offers something meaningful for anyone who wants to better understand themselves, live with greater purpose, and remember that an unstoppable mindset is built one choice at a time. Highlights: 00:47 – Learn how early poverty and cultural diversity shaped a deep respect for people and resilience.03:25 – Understand why looking at a person's heart matters more than labels or background.07:28 – Hear how lifelong learning and creativity fueled constant reinvention.09:56 – Discover why fear can be used as a signal instead of something to avoid.11:22 – Learn how positive thinking became the foundation for long-term impact.13:09 – Understand why truth and responsibility matter more than opinions.17:49 – Learn how intuition and inner voice guide better decisions.22:29 – Discover the two core fears that drive most human behavior.29:11 – Hear how natural healing and mindset work together over time.32:49 – Learn why giving back to the community creates balance and purpose.46:31 – Understand how positivity shapes collective consciousness.58:58 – Learn what it means to live with responsibility, kindness, and self-trust. About the Guest: Linda Mackenzie is the epitome of the multi- hyphenate! A former telecom engineer who designed worldwide communications networks for the airlines and Fortune 1000 companies, Mackenzie is a mainstay in pioneering entrepreneurial spirit. She launched one of the first used PC stores, a datacom consulting firm,a wholesale gift manufacturing company and was the former President of a mind- body supplement manufacturing corporation. Today she heads one of her proudest accomplishments to date, as President of CREATIVE HEALTH & SPIRIT-- a Manhattan Beach based media & publishing company started in 1995 and Founder of HealthyLife. net - All Positive Talk Radio which commenced in October, 2002. Linda Mackenzie is also an author, radio host, lecturer, audio/ TV/ film producer, screenwriter, Doctoral Clinical Hypnotherapist Candidate, a world- renown psychic who has appeared worldwide on hundreds of radio shows, almost all network and cable TV stations and in several award winning documentaries. Ways to connect with Linda**:** Social Media: Twitter: https:// twitter. com/ lindamackenzie; https:// twitter. com/ positiveradio Linked In: https:// www. linkedin. com/ in/ linda- mackenzie- 590649b/ Facebook: https:// www. facebook. com/ linda. mackenzie. 56 Instagram: https:// www. instagram. com/ healthyliferadio/ You Tube: https:// www. youtube. com/@ LindaMackenzie https:// www. youtube. com/@ healthyliferadio Websites: www. lindamackenzie. net, www. healthylife. net, www. hrnradio. com P. O. Box 385, Manhattan Beach, CA 90267 books@ lindamackenzie. net www. LindaMackenzie. net About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:20 Well, hello, everyone, wherever you happen to be, I am Michael Hingson, and you are listening or watching unstoppable mindset. And today, we have a wonderful guest to talk with. She is an innovator by any standard. She's done a lot of different kinds things. She describes herself as a self as a multi hibernate, and I'm gonna let her explain some of that, but I think she's got some interesting and relevant stories to tell, and I'm really glad to have her here. I'd like you to meet Linda. MacKenzie, Linda, welcome to on top of a mindset. Linda MacKenzie  01:58 Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here Michael Hingson  02:02 and you're in Manhattan Beach, right, correct, yeah. So you're not all that far away from me from where I am, up in Victorville. So you know, we could probably open our windows and if we yelled loud enough, we could hear each other. But anyway, tell me about the early, early Linda, growing up and all some of that stuff. Well, that was kind Linda MacKenzie  02:22 of an interesting journey. You know, I was born in the Bronx. My mother was Bostonian, Irish, and my dad was Northern Italian. He had the red hair. My mother had the dark hair, and a typical Italian family, you know, and Irish family, they were constantly fighting, so I delved into books and ran to the church for peace and quiet and and many, many things like that. And we were very poor, you know, we had two dresses. I had two dresses a year. And we, you know, did, had to come home for lunch because we didn't have lunch money and stuff like that. Walked walk that mile to school, too much to school. And we did. I actually lived on the second highest point on the eastern seaboard and so but we grew up really fun. You know, we had when I was growing up in New York, one one street was Italian, the next one was Irish, and the blacks had a street, and the Japanese had a street, and the Koreans had a street, and the Germans had a street. And we all went to school together, and we had one common denominator. We were poor. So when I had sleepovers, I had every kind of person, and we just took each other for who we were and not what we were. And so that was a very nice thing growing up. And because we were poor, we got a lot of advantages. For example, our chorus was in high school, our chorus was taught by Metropolitan Opera singers. So we learned and got many things. And if you were very bright and understood that, we to try and get everything we could do, you know, and use it to improve yourself, it happened so and that's kind of what we did. Michael Hingson  04:14 Well, I think that's really cool, and it's great that you grew up in an environment where everyone understood that we're all part of the same world and and they got along. So you never really had to face a whole lot of or you see other people face a whole lot of that, the kinds of problems that we see in other parts of the world, that everyone worked out pretty well together. Linda MacKenzie  04:35 Yeah, I for us. We did, and I've learned to take people, but I always looked at the heart of a person. You know, I may never have remembered their name, but I would remember everything they said, and I could see their soul. So I I never, ever really saw color of skin or anything like that, and and so it was kind of an enigma for that. I mean, it was. An easy for me growing up. I mean, I had three attempted rapes before I was 11, you know, you had to learn street smarts. You know, you go to church and you got, you're passing the strip club with, you know, all the drunks trying to grab at you at eight years old, trying to pull you away. So, you know, so you learned real quick on what to do and what not to do, and I ended up getting married, put my ex husband through school. He became a biochemist, and went to college for two years, and then quit and put him through school, and then, you know, had a baby at, you know, is married at 19 and had a baby at 21 and, you know, was divorced at 27 and moved to California at well, divorced at 25 I guess, yeah, and then moved to California in 27 and just had a really interesting life. I've been through every strata society, from extremely poor to not so poor to middle class to nouveau riche to old money. I've even jet set. I've done it all so, great experience, no matter what. Did you ever get remarried? Yes, I did. I got I got married to a commodities broker that actually worked at the World Trade Center and in the Mercantile Exchange up there in the comics and the mercantile and, you know, as a matter of fact, there was one day because I was cute when I was, you know, 2728 and my husband was a broker on a floor trader, and he'd say, come in, as it's this particular time, onto the floor, and come meet me on the floor. Well, they didn't really have a lot of women on the floor. Yeah, back in those days. I mean, you know, back in the days where I grew up, my husband had to approve a bank account if I could have a savings account. So you could, you couldn't even, you know, have a credit card if you were a woman, you know. So I went through a lot of stuff. But anyway, I remember walking on the floor, and the whole exchange stopped because he told me wear a mini skirt. And I did. And he went in and did a whole big thing on trading gold, and made a lot of money that day. Walked on the exchange. That's what ended up happening. But Seth, you Michael Hingson  07:17 talked about, you just made me think of something you talked about, you saw people's hearts and so on, but you never remembered their names. I know for six years I worked up at Guide Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael, which is where I've gotten all of my guide dogs. Because after September 11, one of the things they asked me if I come be their spokesperson. One of the things that we heard, and I never believed in until I saw it in action, is that most of the people at guide dogs know every single dog that goes through the campus bills. They'll never remember your names. They don't remember students names, but they remember the dogs, Linda MacKenzie  07:53 right, right? Well, they have intimate Well, I mean, I remembered my mom's name. Well, that's a start. Michael Hingson  08:04 It's just kind of funny, because, you know, the students and the trainers do get along well, but it's just so funny. How so many people up there would remember the dogs. I could go down the corridor going to the Veterinary Clinic, and people would come up and they go, Hi Rosell, or hi Africa. I can't quite remember your name, but it's so funny. That's great, you know, and can't argue with it. It's nice to be remembered somehow, even if it's for the dog. That's right, that's right. So did you just have two years of college, or did you ever finish? Linda MacKenzie  08:39 Yeah, no, I went back and I got a degree, and then I got grandfathered in, and I have a PhD in clinical hypnotherapy, and I have been recognized as a furthering the profession, and also by the American Board of hypnotherapy, they say that I'm the their most creative, prolific minds, which I said, Oh, good. I can use that in PR for at least 10 minutes? Yeah, at Michael Hingson  09:05 least it's something to say. Linda MacKenzie  09:07 Yeah, no, but I've always I was. My Autobiography is called Life is like Girl Scout badges. I'm kind of writing that so and it's because whenever I finish something or did something, you know, I would go on to something else, because I feel life is just a wonderful thing. So I've done many, many things I've done, you know, when I was 18, I won awards from the Metropolitan Museum of Art for my artwork, and I was offered a contract with Columbia Records to sing, but the promoter, the ME TOO movement was back then too, and I chose not to do it, so I didn't go with them, which is a funny thing, because now I'm 76 this year, and I am producing a children's record and next month, and I've written the songs and done the music, and we've got people from Off Broadway and different kinds of people coming together. For for a wonderful record for children on how to stop negative thought, to stay positive and what and how to transcend fear. So that's my project for this year. You know, so, but I've done so many things. I mean, I don't know where you just start. Michael Hingson  10:18 That's fine. Well, I hope to hear the record someday. Linda MacKenzie  10:22 Oh, you will. It's going to be so much fun. It's so much fun. Michael Hingson  10:26 I you know, you know who Neil sadaka is, yes, and he's got this song, Breaking up is hard to do. Well, it turns out that in 2009 he did a whole album for kids. The title song is waking up is hard to do. It's never it's cute. Somebody told me about it earlier this year, and I went and found it. It is a cute album, and it's the melodies are most all of his other songs, but the words are all kids related, and they're very clever. Linda MacKenzie  10:53 Well, this was a book that I wrote about 20 years ago, and and then I and somebody picked it up, and then they said, you need to write a script. And I said, Well, I don't know how to write a script, so I bought a book and I wrote a script, and they it was picked up while Ron Howard had it, and Hawk Koch, who did sliver, and Deborah Johnson, and it's been in play for 20 years. I mean, the last producers that had it was crazy, Rich Asians, and it was never produced, and every single time they wanted to produce it, so I said, You know what, I'm going to write the book myself. So I rewrote the book. My daughter's doing some education. She's a teacher, so she's doing some educational things so that the people in education can, you know, take the chapters and the characters and learn how to be positive from these things and and it's really kind of a fun thing, so I'm really excited about it. So I just said, I'm not going to wait for them. I'm going to do it because the kids need it now more than ever. They just get away from that social media and to really start connecting and to understand that it's not the witchcraft, it's not the, you know, the social media that, or you know what it is, is your own mind and your own self, and using the quality of your mind and understanding that and moving through it and having a Positive attitude that will get you so far in life, and that's what my goal is, is to just, you know, I've been doing that for almost, I don't know, 40 years. Is my whole goal was truth and positivity. So Well, there Michael Hingson  12:33 you go. By the way, since you have written books, I would appreciate it if you would email me and attach pictures of the book covers, because I'd love to put them out as part of the show notes. Linda MacKenzie  12:45 Okay, great. That would be great. I have four books out. I I had started a positive Talk Radio Network back in 2002 and you know, we're going to a lot of we go. We have 45 hosts. It's live. We do podcasts, and we've been doing podcasts since 2004 if you can believe that, and we were pioneer in internet radio and so and that's because I was an engineer for 18 years, and I was the first woman Datacom engineer in any airline in the world, and designed stuff for Continental Airlines and Western airlines and international airlines and things like that. And, you know, air to ground, radio and right go to the when you go to the airport, if you use computerized tickets, that was kind of my I participated in that with other wonderful people, and I worked with microwave and did all of that as matter of fact, I redesigned a computer center. So every year I've done something, you know, and I've been successful, and then I move on, you know. But the radio network is my longest one. That's 23 years. So we'll be 2024, years this year, which is a lot of years, but we're helping people, because it's all positive talk. So although we do have a news program, I tried to make it positive, but we report the old way, you know, with, you know, checking sources and really having too much opinion. And when you have an opinion, say it's your opinion, you know, not trying to which Michael Hingson  14:21 is fair, which is which is fair. Well, if you ever need a guest on the podcast or on any of the radio shows, just let me know. I'm always looking for opportunities to also be positive and and motivate people. So if Linda MacKenzie  14:33 we can, just have to go to the site, and there's a thing called all shows, and go through all of the hosts, because we have over 45 of them, and, you know, and so, and each one does 14:47 their own. Got it? What's the site? Linda MacKenzie  14:50 Again, it's called Healthy Life. Dot.net. It's or heal thy life.net. So it's healthy life or heal thy life. Same got it? Same thing. Saying different, different way of saying it and and you can listen 24/7, I don't do any apps. We are syndicated on 75 channels of distribution. So if you wanted to get on, tune in, or streama, or some of these other wonderful networks in Europe, you know, we go to 137 countries. So it's a pretty good network. And if you want to be happy and get learn things, you know it's just wonderful. We're starting some new shows that nobody's ever done, and I can do an exclusive here for you, if you want it, our network is going to be doing I've been following a while that there's certain kinds of classical music, right? That when you listen to it can reverse cancer, stop Alzheimer's, stop Parkinson's. And there are certain things at certain frequencies. And I have one of the greatest classical Taurus in the world, in my opinion, and he's going to be doing a show where people can listen to the music and then and help themselves heal right on air, I'm stupid by John Hopkins University. And, I mean, it's not just namby pamby or, you know, La La Land stuff. It's no, I'm saving for certain things. So it's it's really no one's doing that. So it's going to be really fun for me to do. Michael Hingson  16:27 Are you familiar with Joe fatale? No. He is a an individual who has done a lot with with sound to not only help people from a wealth standpoint, but also help them in terms of dealing with health. I've, I've been on a couple of his mailing lists, and he's had some interesting, some interesting things, and a couple of people who've worked with him and so on have been guests on unstoppable mindset. But it's an interesting guy, but definitely parallels a lot of what you're saying, certainly stuff, I have also believed, right? Linda MacKenzie  17:03 We've had Jonathan Goldman, who has written, He's a graduate of Berkeley School of Music, but he's been doing sound healing. It was an interesting story with him, and he's on our network, and he's been doing shows with us for over 20 years. And it was funny, he went to Tibet and he was loved the chants of the Tibetan monks. And he went over there, and he said, can I try that chant? And they said, No, that chant, you know, is like 10 years. You have to do it in 10 years, you know, you have to train for that. He goes, Can I try? And they said, Yes. And he got it perfectly. And so now the Tibetan monks go to train with him in Boulder, Colorado every year around June timeframe. So it's kind of a fun story. So he's been in sound healing for a long time. And there's a lot of different things that are true, but like today, you have to make sure that it resonates with you, because not everything that you're hearing is true, and people are bastardizing things. And the closer you are to the truth, and the closer that you and you can depend on your own truth meter, because everybody's got one, yeah. And if you depend on that and listen to just that, and if it tells you stop, I don't want to do this anymore, then you just go to that point, and then you will get the benefit from everything. Michael Hingson  18:25 One of my favorite things that I've talked about several times on the podcast when I talk to people about inner voices and their thoughts is I ask a number of people, did you used to play or do you play Trivial Pursuit? And when they say, Yes. One of the things I constantly ask people is, how often did somebody ask a question? Immediately you thought of an answer, but you went, Oh, that was just too easy. And so you think again, you come up with a different answer, but the first answer that you thought of was the correct one, which is absolutely all about listening to your inner voice and listening to correct what you're being told. Linda MacKenzie  19:00 That's right. You're 99% right if you listen the first time and don't use your mind to think. You know, the brain is divided into two kinds. You know, the left logical brain. What you need if you're crossing a street. I mean, I would like to know there's a car and step back, but the right side of the brain is where your creativity is, and I call the seat of soul. And what happens is, is that your creative side is the thing that heals you. Your left logical side is just like the monkey mind. And so what happens when you're doing hypnosis? What you're doing is you're getting the left brain to listen to a story, but you before you do it, you have an intention, and the intention is the right brain knows exactly what you need to do, but it's very kind, and it lets the left brain sit there, be in control, except at night, and you'll notice that if you're ill, and when you wake up in the morning, you feel, most times, a lot better. And that's reason is, is because the right side of the mind has. Has actually taken control right and the left side of the brain is sleeping, so your right side of the brain can absolutely heal you. And this is where your your gut feel comes from, too, is from the right side of the brain. And we are much more than we think we are. You know, we're just spiritual beings in a physical body, not a physical being in a you know, we're not just physical beings, you know, right? Michael Hingson  20:28 Well, and it all goes back to the spiritual and to the light. And absolutely is true. I know that I've, we've had on on this podcast, a number of Reiki Masters and other people, and we've had people who bring on singing musical bowls and so on. Linda MacKenzie  20:50 And it's interesting about that, because, you know, here in Japan, Reiki has 12 levels, but they're only taught three here, and they're never taught the level to where you protect yourself, because when you're out there in the universe and you're going into doing some of these things, everything exists, even a thought form exists. So you want to make sure that you're as protected as possible when you're doing these things right and so, but most of the people don't know, because they don't allow you to do that. And Reiki, there is a you're there in it, day in, day out. That's your career. You know, it's not just a pastime. And the Tibetan bowls are great. However, for me, when they do the regular way of doing it, it's like chalk on a chalkboard. For me, when they do it opposite and backwards, I'm in heaven. So it's really interesting how everybody's body is different. Every person is unique. And we have to understand that when we're looking at health or with mind or with body, we want to understand that we are so important. Each one of us is important. Never should be belittled or, you know, and treat everybody with kindness and love and and respect and truth Michael Hingson  22:06 exactly right. And I'd love to see a whole lot more of it than oftentimes we do see, but I know that that it's so important that we focus on doing things to protect ourselves. And one of the things that that I talk about is I wrote a book that was published last year called on stop or excuse me, called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith. And the whole idea behind the book was that at the beginning of the pandemic, I realized that although I had escaped from the World Trade Center, and I had, in fact, known what to do, which was a mindset that clicked in when the emergency happened. I never really worked to teach other people that. So I wrote, live like a guide dog, and used lessons that I learned from all of my guide dogs and my wife's service dog, the lessons from those dogs to, in fact, learn how to deal with the different things that we have to deal with, and learn how to, in reality, control, protect ourselves and move forward in a positive and constructive way. In other words, really learning about the fact that you can control fear. Fear is not something that you you need to allow to overwhelm or, as I put it, blind you or paralyze you. The reality is that fear is a wonderful thing that you can use as a very powerful tool to help you function and succeed even in the most adverse circumstances possible. Linda MacKenzie  23:40 Well, I one of the songs on the record is called fear is fear is my friend, and it's a wonderful song, and it teaches you that fear. I did a big study for 20 years on fear, right? Because the only way that people can control you is through fear. Okay? If you don't have fear, no one can control you. No one, okay, yeah. Michael Hingson  24:08 Well, and just to interrupt for a quick sec, I would say it's not that you don't have fear, but you control it. Linda MacKenzie  24:16 Well, you overcome it. You Michael Hingson  24:17 exactly, right, exactly. You use it. You use it in a powerful, better way. Anyway, go ahead, right? Linda MacKenzie  24:23 Well, fear does, for me is that when fear comes in, it's, it's a wake up call, saying, yeah, look at this. What is it that you're fearful of, and what? Because the only way you can go through exactly right through it. And so when I did this study, it was very interesting, because I found that fear comes from two places. One is a fear of loss, and the other is a fear of death. When you fine tune fear all the way all the way all the way all the way down, it's fear of loss or fear of death. And it's funny, because we come in with nothing, we're leaving with nothing. The only thing we take. With us is the love we give and the love we get. That's it. And I've been on the other side and worked on the other side for the British government and all sorts of stuff, so I know that there's life after death, yeah. And so therefore there's really nothing to fear except to find out what the lesson fear is trying to teach you when you learn it, and you learn it all the way that lesson, you will never have to repeat it in your life again. And so fear is so, so important, and yet not to be feared. Don't fear Michael Hingson  25:35 don't fear it. No, as I said, it's a very powerful tool that can help in so many ways, right, which I think is really important. Well, after college, you started working at various things. What did you do after college? What was kind of your first endeavor? Linda MacKenzie  25:51 Well, I started with the New York telephone company, and I was called when I was selling touch tone telephones. They had just come out. Michael Hingson  26:01 Was it, was it called? Was it called 9x then? Or was it was that? Linda MacKenzie  26:05 Well, in New York, it was no. It was, yeah, that was the trade trade, yes, but it was New York telephone company, yeah. And then I went to work for the National radiology registry, and I designed a prison. When I moved to California, I started to really take off, and I designed a people coming out of prison weren't able to get jobs and and so the X ray they did teach in some prisons in Chino, as a matter of fact, how to become a x ray technician and and so, and an ultrasound wasn't even out back then, back in 77 so I started a prison program to it was a temporary agency so that when a doctor's office or a hospital, their x ray technicians didn't show up, they would call us, and then we would send somebody out, and then they would like the people we would send, and they would give them jobs. So the we so I tried to do that. And then I started working for the airlines and and I they said, Well, do you want to be a reservation person? I said, No. And they said, Well, do you want to be, you know, at the ticket counter agent? Yeah, no, no. He said, Do you want to be a flight attendant? I said, No. And they said, Well, what do you want to do? And I said, Put me in accounting at the mail desk. I want to see where the money goes, and then I'll figure out where I'm going to go. And they said, What? And I said, Just do it, you know. And I had made friends with someone, and so they gave me the job, and I kept moving. And every six months I'd find another error, a million dollar error, and this and this and this. And I finally worked my way up into computers and and then I was the very first woman in any as a data com engineer in any airline in the world. And I started doing a lot of things like that, and then went to work for Western airlines. And then I did worked for CETA, which is Society International Telecommunications aeronautic, which is a largest telecommunications company in the world, based in France and Switzerland. And then I from there, after my daughter graduated from college, I said, enough of this engineering. And so I quit, and I started a metaphysical company, and I got onto a lot of TV. I started my radio show in 1996 I started writing books, and I then from there, I was president of a dietary supplement manufacturing company for a while, and then I manufactured audio tapes and and our company, our vitamin company, was the first company to do mind body medicine. So we would have my partner, was Vice President from GNC, and we started a business in New York and in California. And what we did was we would do an arthritis formula, which she was great at formulation. She was one of the best in the biz. And I would do audio visualization tapes, so that when you were taking the formulas, you would be working on a body level, but the mind would, you would start helping to grow bone with the mind. So we were the first ones to do all these wonderful things for that. And we sold to Trader Joe's and house markets and all sorts of stuff. And then the big farmer came in, and then that was that, you know, they bought up almost all the vitamin companies, and then they started, you know, most of the vitamin companies out there aren't worth their salt, and they're not giving you good vitamins. So and then from there, I went into doing the radio network and which I've been doing, and then I stopped doing books. And then two years ago, I said, you know, I'm getting old, and if I want to get these books out, I better get them out. So I probably. Myself that I was going to do one a year. And for the last two years, I did those two new books, and then I was, I was going to do the children's book this year, but they say that April is the best time to release a children's book is that's when the stores and the education people are looking at it and getting towards summer and all that. Yeah, yeah. So I'm waiting until next year to release that, the album and stuff. But so this year I had to put together a new book, which I'm doing. I just, I'm almost finished with that, so I can release it in September, and that is going to be where it's, I think it's going to be called, help yourself heal with natural remedies or naturally, and it's going to have 40, or about 40 different illnesses, and all the natural medicine with it, plus in the back, it's going to have what is an amino acid, all these terms, so that people can understand. I like to do things that are complete and and I don't do anything if somebody has to get something from a book or a product or a thing that I do. Otherwise I won't do it, yeah, because I want it for everyone, you know. So, so anyways, I'm, I'm working on that as we 31:08 speak. Well, there you go. Well, Michael Hingson  31:11 so it'll be out in like, September or October. Linda MacKenzie  31:14 Yeah, exactly. I'm, I'm doing, I'm just about completed with it, and I just have about three or four chapters to go, but I keep finding new things I want to put in. For example, you know, since there is a censorship on the natural health sites, I'm going to include all of the wonderful health site, health natural health sites, so that people will have a reference so they don't have to worry about things, you know and where to get information. So it's going to be good. Michael Hingson  31:44 Well, when that book gets to the point where you have a book cover, I certainly want to put that in the show notes as well. Speaker 1  31:50 Okay, great. That'd be great. And Michael Hingson  31:53 maybe we can release this about the time the book is is made visible to the world, so that that'll help. Speaker 1  32:01 That'd be great, sure. Well, so what Michael Hingson  32:05 do you consider your profession today? Linda MacKenzie  32:09 Me, I'm my own profession. Me, the I don't have a profession. I have many hats that I'm wearing, right? So I mean tremendous amounts. I'm still running the radio network, and in a radio network, you need 21 individuals to do it, and there we have four, and I'm doing about, I don't know, 10 or 12 of the 21 things to do. So if you want to give me a hat for there, that's that. And then I'm an author and I'm doing the record, so I'm that, and I'm a radio host and, you know, and I give pictures. And the thing is, is that it's like, I'm not busy enough, but I love giving back to the community, because, you know, when you are there's six things you need in your life to be happy and balanced, right? And one of them is giving to the community. So I wasn't really before covid, I was doing a lot, but I wasn't really doing anything for my community. So what I did was I it took me four months. They had to do a homeland security check and a thumbprint and, you know, all sorts of stuff, to do guided meditation for healing for seniors. So we're going to be taking, and that's starting in two weeks, in August 8, and we're, we're going to be doing at the Senior Center in Redondo Beach and and so people will come, and we're going to work on different kinds of anti aging issues, like arthritis and, you know, macular degeneration and bones and diabetes and stuff, and every every two weeks, I'll be doing a guided meditation and helping people heal with that. So, so now I've got the community in and so I've got all my six pieces of my pie, and now I'm stable again. Michael Hingson  34:00 There you go. It's nice to have peace in the world, right? Yeah, it is. It is. So tell me, given all the things you've done, tell me a story or two about things that you've done, something very memorable that comes to mind. Linda MacKenzie  34:15 Oh, there's so many, I'm sure. I mean, because on top of that, you know, I've been a psychic since I'm eight years 34:21 old, right? So how did you discover that? How did Linda MacKenzie  34:25 you I saw God when I was eight? Okay, I'm very God based. I'm not from the planet Altair or the universe. I never took a course. I mean, I listened to God. God said, Jump. I said, Hi. How high and and that's what I do. But I've done I'm very respected in the community. I do a lot of, like, a lot of things for for that, there's, you know, I've done documentaries on it, and there's 17 different distinct psychic abilities. I have them all, and I don't do. Two of them, I don't do prophecy and I don't do trans mediumship, which means that an entity will jump into you and talk through you. And that happens because for a long time, I was on ABC, NBC, BBC, Japan TV. I worked with International Society for paranormal research, and we went over to London to investigate for the British government, you know, some of the Belgrave Hall, whether the ghost things were real or not. And one of the things that was interesting, because there's a lot of stories on those you know that are like, kind of titillating, or saying, Oh, what's going on? I was so basically, I tested my abilities for 37 years before I came out. So what I would do is say I was 16, and I would have pre Cognizant dreams. So I would write the dreams out. And what I would do is I would give them to my girlfriend after I wrote them, and then when one of the dreams would come true, I'd have a witness that was there with me, and I'd go over to her house, and I'd say, hey, Eileen, can you pull the dream with the roller coaster there? And she would pull it out. And then I said, read it. And then that way, I learned to decipher what was coming from God, what was coming from me. Because, you know, there's a lot of, you know, where if you don't know how to manipulate the energy. So it was a long, long time I, you know, by the time I was 15, I had read every metaphysical book in the New York Public Library, everyone, and so I took it very seriously. And I was, you know, busting psychics in New York at 21 and and then finally I just stopped, and I didn't come back out until I was about 37 and so when I went to London, they there was a, we had a Cora Derek. A Cora was the one of the leading psychics in London. And then we had Peter James, who was on sightings. And then we had me, and we three went over. And then we would go into they would take us individually to these different sites. And they would say, Okay, what do you feel, and what do you see? And so I would be taking, you know, they take me to these different things and, and I would see all these different things, and I would say it, and it turned out, I'm saying I'm not very comfortable here. I'm not comfortable here. And then we go to the next site, and I would tell them, Oh, I see a woman with a red hat. And I gave them names and places and dates and and it turned out that they were taking me on the path of Jack the Ripper, and to the point where I gave them new information on Jack the Ripper that they never had before. And so I have an ability that I can stand on a piece of ground, and I can go back to the beginning of time and tell you names and dates and places of who was there all the way back up. So there's a lot of things, and the government has asked me to work for them on many projects. They've been charting me since I'm 15 and so, and I just don't, I don't do and one, and I'm not going to say which, but one of the presidents of the United States, when they were in office, asked me to be their psychic, and I told them, I don't do politics, sports books or lottery tickets, and I turned them down. I mean, I was going to go to dinner with them, because Henry Kissinger was going to be my dinner partner at the Jonathan club, you know. And I thought he was an interesting guy, you know, whether you liked him or you didn't like him, he was an interesting guy. And I like to meet different people, because even if you it's not somebody you like, you need to understand the people so that you know how to handle them in a correct manner, you know. And so even if you don't like someone, you treat them with respect, and you learn you better, you understand, you know. So, so that's those are some stories. Michael Hingson  39:01 So, so let's, let's get to the reality of the world. Did you ever visit the Del Coronado hotel and talk to the ghost down there? Linda MacKenzie  39:08 Yes, oh, good. We did. We were one. We were the group that was doing it, that was filmed. We did the Queen Mary. We did. We were, if you saw that on television. It was probably me there. It wasn't as as haunted as some of the other places. I mean, you know, there was one place in England that was very interesting, so we did a documentary called ghost of England, and there was a one house. I don't remember the name of it, but there was a three generations that had died that were still in the house. The house was in the family for 300 years, and I released a little girl there that was eight, that was a, you know, a spirit there, and I released her to her mom. She had died of consumption. It was really interesting, because. Because they knew of each other, and it was, here's these three different generations, and they can see each other, and they know each other. So that was very interesting, because the Society for paranormal research actually did research into the phenomena of ghosts and the ghost at Belgrave Hall, we found we were very truthful. There was no ghost at Belgrave Hall, okay? I mean, it was explained away by phenomena that, you know, street lights and rain stuff. So we did a lot of that, but we wanted to make sure that everything that we did was in truth. And then another thing that we found was I did another documentary called ghost of New Orleans. And New Orleans is a very, very, very strange place. And I actually went back and they asked me to do a I did a 17 part interactive museum display for a paranormal Museum in New Orleans, and it was all teaching about psychic ability and how not to fear it. And it's not the devil's work. It's, you know, it's just a natural ability that we have. And I wanted people to understand that, but get the truth not from a lot of these people that are just talking that don't know, you know. So anyway, so we did in New Orleans. It was interesting, because the ghosts work together. We were all on different floors, and on each floor, they would give us papers, and they would, you know, newspapers in the morning, and the newspapers would end up in our rooms, in different places all the time, and it was just and we didn't move them. Nobody touched them. The room wasn't able to get in. So there's all sorts of phenomenon there that is just kind of interesting, you know, there. Michael Hingson  41:47 So just, does some of that have to do with voodoo and so on, but just because they're so prevalent down Linda MacKenzie  41:52 if you understand that everything exists, you have to none of that was the voodoo, because, very specific thing, yeah, and it's a specific practice, okay, and so it's not something that I would get into. Or, do you know? I mean, it's not we were, I was attacked several times there. I mean, we went into a we went into a house where there was an entity there that had committed 27 murders, and it was they were all buried in the backyard, and they never even knew until we told them about it, when he came after me on that and so you know, you you have to know what you're doing when you're Doing this, too, you know. So you know, but most ghosts, you just tell them to go away, or if you and sometimes you want to see them, you know, maybe it's your mom or your dad that you're missing. So one of the ways that you can do that is you can say, Hey, before you go to sleep, put a pen and a pencil by your bed, and just say, I would like to see you, dad tonight, and and then you say, I would like to remember that I saw you, yeah. And then when you get up in the morning, you just jot down little words or something, anything that you remember. And then after a while, you'll be able to get a rapport where you'll be able to start to remember, and then able to communicate. Michael Hingson  43:23 Yeah. And the reason I asked about the Dell, just because that's that is a a ghost I've, I've heard so much about, and a friendly ghost, as I understand it. So there's a woman, I guess what? She died in a room there. But it's one of the things that everybody talks about with the Dell all the time, of course. Linda MacKenzie  43:40 Well, one of the funniest things that happened was, well, there was two funny things. One was, you know, we were at the doing the the Comedy Store, the magic and magic club. And the Comedy Store is what that Tootsie shores place, anyway. So we were doing, doing the Comedy Store, and there's a ghost there that puts his hands up people's skirts. Well, that's nice. I went in there, and they didn't tell me, and all of a sudden, I'm going, what the heck. And I look there and I see and I and these, and they said, Oh yeah, we forgot to tell you. I said, Yeah, you didn't forget you wanted to catch that on camera. I said, Well, you did. So it's funny. It's a comedy Michael Hingson  44:28 story. I'm sure the ghost thought it was funny. Linda MacKenzie  44:30 Yeah, he did. I bet. So, yeah. So there's, there's, I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of stories and and that's my book coming out in 2027 that's going to be called, and then what happened? Paranormal stories, believe it or not, you know. And those are going to have 40 stories in there on things that have happened to me, where people are going to say what? And you can believe it or not, that's coming Michael Hingson  44:58 up too. So do. Well, and that's that's ultimately it. People can decide to believe it or not, and a lot of people will poo, poo it. It doesn't change the reality of the situation, though, Linda MacKenzie  45:12 no, but you know, it's okay. Wherever you are is good, as long as you love one another, or at least try and be kind to one another. I think we can accomplish a lot just by doing that, yeah, and agree to disagree. You know, we we don't have to get upset if the other person has 100% doesn't agree with us. We have to just agree to disagree and not try and get heated. But the Michael Hingson  45:38 other, the other side of that, or the other part of that, not the other side, is that if you really take that, that tact, and you agree to disagree and you continue to converse, you never know what you're going to learn, as opposed to what we see so often now, somebody disagrees, and there's just this complete block wall that comes up. There's no discussion at all, and that's never a good thing to do. Linda MacKenzie  46:03 Well, this morning on my radio show was interesting. I went out with a girlfriend of mine, and she's really into these conspiracy theories, and I'm just not there, you know. So she was trying to put her point through and saying, you know, the collective consciousness has to understand this so we can do something about it. And I said, Yeah. I said, Well look, I said, Here's what I've decided. I said, I'm 76 if somebody else wants to do the activism for this kind of stuff, then at 50, go and do your thing. I said, but I think that when you start getting angry and you start getting heated, what's happening is the collective consciousness is there for everyone. We're all part of everything. We are part of everyone and everything. And so when you get upset, that's not helping the consciousness to make everything right. And if you get a group of people thinking the same thought, you can actually change consciousness and make the world better. So instead of sitting there, do something about it. Donate to something. But don't just sit there and talk about it, you know, actually do something about it and start making sure that you're staying positive about it, and what you can do positively for the situation. And don't get caught in the controversy because you're making more negative energy, yeah, and that never works, no. Positive always overcomes negative. So if you want something to happen, think positive, be buoyant, positive always overcomes negative. So you need to do that. Michael Hingson  47:39 And it is, it is so true, and so many people, you know, we're, we're in a world now where there's so much negativity. It's so unfortunate, because I think people miss out when they do that. And you're right, that's, it's not really part of the good, constructive collective consciousness, either, Linda MacKenzie  48:00 right, right? So we just have to, you know, people think that they can't do anything when things happen. And what I'm saying if you come from the premise that everything is energy, right? And so if you are just loving your spouse or loving your dog or being kind to people that energy is positive, right? And so sure you are doing something, because if we make a lot of positive energy in that collective consciousness, as above so below, right? So if we go ahead and do that, then it will drift down, and we will have a better, happier place, but being negative doesn't help you. Negative makes your immune system depressed. It gives you illness, and it's these are all proven things, so you might as well stay positive. And I don't mean Pollyanna, where you don't things, but you know, understand things and understand that there's a greater force in the back of things too, that, you know, it's not just all about us. You know, there is a for me. I believe that there's a God, and God is in control, and so we have to trust that to some degree. Michael Hingson  49:14 On September 11, and I wrote about this in my book thunder dog, and I've talked about it a few times here, when I was running away from tower two, because I was very close to it when it collapsed. The first thing I thought of as I started to run was, God, I can't believe that you got us out of a building just to have it fall on us. And immediately I heard in my head, as clearly as we're talking right now a voice that said, don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on running with Roselle, who is my guide dog, and the rest will take care of itself. And I immediately had this absolute sense of peace and calm and conviction that if I did that, I'd be fine. And I was so. I'm saying that in part to tell you I understand exactly what you're saying, and that was kind of perhaps one of my experiences. But the bottom line is that we need to learn to listen. And one of the things that I talk about and live like a guide dog is that so many people worry about every little thing that comes along. They are just worried about, how am I going to deal with this? Or the politicians are going to do this to me and that to me and everything else. And the reality is, we don't have control over any of that. What we have control over is how we deal with stuff. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't be aware of what's going on around us. But by the same token, if we worry about every little thing, and we don't really worry about the things over which we have some influence, we're only hurting ourselves. Linda MacKenzie  50:50 And it delays it, and it delays it, and it delays it. So you if you want things to get over quickly, learn to listen. And sometimes, you know, people would say, what is meditation? And I said, Well, it's kind of like prayer. You're listening to God's answers, you know. So I mean, there, I've never been alone, because I've always had a very strong connection with God. And as a matter of fact, it was very interesting. I'll tell you the story about the radio network, and basically, I had just been offered by Sci Fi Channel. They said, We love working with you. So would you take and there was a big 51:31 ghosty, a ghost Linda MacKenzie  51:36 show coming up. It was very big. And I said, No, I won't do that because it wasn't in truth, and you just want to make people cry. You want to feed off those emotions. That's not me. So Mary from sci fi said, You know what, Linda, we like working with you, so just go home and design a show for us, and we will do it. So I got home and I was so excited, because now I was going to make the big money, and I was going to get known and God comes in, and he goes, Linda. And I said, What? And he said, I want you to start a radio network. I said, What? And he says, Well, look. He goes, I gave you all the tools to do it. He goes, You were a data com engineer, you've been in radio. He goes, you're doing positive stuff. He goes, I want you to do a positive network. And I'm going, Wait a minute. I says, you know, I'm just getting this big opportunity, you know? And he goes, Well, listen, he goes, You know, when you're doing a lecture, now you're he goes, you get 1000 people coming to your lecture. He goes, so you're a point of light. He goes, think if you were to get 4045, people to do a radio network, all with positive thought. He goes, then you become a lighthouse. And I said, Okay. And I said, But what about this opportunity? And he goes, Well, you don't have to do it. And I said, well. I said, God is asking me, and I'm going to say, No, I'm not going to do that. I said, No, that's not going to happen. I said, and my Italian came in because I said, Okay, I'll do it. But when I get upstairs, you and I have it a sit down, and he just laughs. He thinks I'm funny so, and he has always been with me 100% of the time. And a lot of times he'll tell me, No, you can do this yourself. You do it, you know. And so I but I've been in a realm where I can go back and forth and I understand, you know. And I talk, you know, you can talk to anybody you want, sure, if you're if you're there, you know, if I need help from Einstein, I'll say, Hey, Uncle L, I need you what? And I go, ask God, Michael Hingson  53:43 yeah, it's it's interesting. It's so many people just belittle so much and but everyone has to make their own choices, and I don't have control over the the choices that people make. I can only talk about my experiences and what I do and so on, and people have to make up their own minds. Which is, which is the way it should be. I think that all of us are individuals that are given the opportunity to make choices, and we can decide how we want to proceed, and the time will come when we will have to defend our positions, or it will have all gone really well. And so the bottom line is that that we make the choices and we have to live by what happens as a result the consequences Linda MacKenzie  54:36 right, and we have to take to learn, to get take responsibility for our actions. You know, the songs on this album address all the major things that we need to do to stay positive and to have a happy life. And so it's not just for kids, it's for parents, and it's for grandparents, and it's for anyone who wants to listen. And it's it's going to be a good. Thing when I get this all done, and I'm it's one of them, my, one of my projects that I wanted to do for a lifetime. And once I get this done, I'll be happy. Michael Hingson  55:09 So well, you do a lot of different stuff. You must have a personal life too. How do you balance the two? Well, and what do you do in your personal life? Linda MacKenzie  55:20 Well, I love to exercise. I do. I love to cook. So once a month I do a psychic soiree, you know, so I do. I've been on a specific diet, you know, no dairy, no salt, no sugar, no effervescence, no since 1992 I don't go to medical doctors. I haven't been to a medical doctor since 1992 and I do everything with just herbs and exercise and getting enough sleep and stuff. So I cook for dinners, and I have a family, and we go out, and I have wonderful friends and bands that I follow in town, so we go out. And I'm actually even going out on a date next this coming Thursday night, which hasn't been for a long time, but so there's and then I do a lot of working with the senior centers and so and then do and I love watching dumb TV that I don't have to think. I like dumb Michael Hingson  56:23 I like dumb TV too. I know exactly what you mean when you say that. I have always been a fan, also, of old radio shows. So I love listening to all the old time radio shows from the 30s, 40s and 50s and so on. And some of them can make you think. But by the same token, the reality is that there's something to be said for just being able to escape, right? Linda MacKenzie  56:46 My latest thing is watching Chinese soap operas. They're 40 episodes long, and I love them. And even though they're subtitles, you get to see how they think and how a different kind of person, you know, culture thinks and does, and it's interesting that you can see how much the same they are as we you know, that they want the same things, they have the same values. You know, because we are all the same, and we have to understand that Michael Hingson  57:19 I know, one of the things that I've said many times, that I know, I'm sure, that a lot of people just think I'm crazy, but I point out that what happened on September 11 was not a religious war. It was a bunch of thugs who wanted to try to bend the world to their will. But that's not the the Islamic religion. The reality is that all of the religions, all the major religions, especially in the world, are always to get to God, and Far be it from me, to judge someone else because they happen to belong to a different religion or subscribe to something different than what I do. Linda MacKenzie  57:54 Well, it's interesting that I did a study on religion. As a matter of fact, on on our radio network we have James Bean, and he's been doing, he was on wisdom radio, so for 40 years, he's been doing spiritual awakenings, where he does comparative religions. And it's interesting that all of the religions have a, you know, a Jesus, you know, or a Mohammed, and they all die, and they all get resurrected in three days. Every single one of the religions has that. And if you and every single one of the religions has a version of the Our Father, Mm, hmm, almost exact words, because Jesus, you know, so, so you know, as far as respecting other religions. I think you have to too. But nothing should be overwhelming, you know, right? Like, oh, absolutely nothing should be overwhelming on because of religion. Like, I don't think that the girls should have to wear burkas because it's religious, right, you know. I think there's some things that you know are not exactly right. Michael Hingson  59:00 Well, you know, Tolstoy once said The biggest problem with Christianity is that people don't practice it. It's the same sort of That's right, concept. I agree with you. I don't think that girls and women should have to wear burkas or not be educated, or not be educated. Well, I wish, I really wish they would be educated, yeah. And so today, actually, yeah, oh, they do and and I think more and more people are beginning to realize it, but not enough yet, in some of these countries where they're willing to stand up and and say, We're not going to tolerate this anymore. Linda MacKenzie  59:32 But I hope about the money, though, unfortunately, so it's power and money, but when they understand that it's the love and kindness that's more important, and that's the only thing that you take with you. Yeah, maybe we can change this world, and I hope we do well. Michael Hingson  59:50 I agree with what you're saying, and I think that people, but people do need to, at some time, recognize that there's something. To be said for principle in the world too. 1:00:02 Yes, I agree. So what Michael Hingson  1:00:08 do you hope that people gain today from listening to your show? Linda MacKenzie  1:00:13 Well, today we did a really, kind of an interesting thing. It was called Linda's world. And once a month, at the end of the month, I don't even know what I'm going to say, and so I come on and I just talk, and we talk a little bit about current events, and then we talked about anti aging, and I do herb of the week, and I give you different kinds of information on that, and we did all these things on anti aging and what vitamins and different things that can help you doing it. And so it's really we do spirit, and we do mind, body, spirit. So you know, you can go to healthy life.net, and click on podcast on demand. There's two buttons at the top. One is Listen Live. You just click on that. We don't have an app. We don't track you. We just allow you to listen for free. And we also have a podcast network with 3200 podcasts from wonderful, wonderful people, some who have passed over, but now, but they're still there, and they have still valuable information called HR and podcasts.com that's 3200 free podcasts there that people can access as well. So you can go to the podcast on demand button, click that, and you'll find my face, or look for Linda McKenzie, and click on that, and there'll be, I think, three months of shows that you can listen to, and you can see all the different kinds of topics. And I'm usually booked six months in advance, because I've been doing radio for so long, there's a lot of people that really like to come in, so I hope that people get one idea, one thought that makes their life positive from the show. And hopefully I'm giving 60 of them, Michael Hingson  1:01:52 yeah, I hear exactly what you're saying. And you know, if I can inspire one person when I speak, if I can get people to think a little bit more about something, then I've done my job right, and I think that's the only way to do it. Well, if people want to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to contact you? Linda MacKenzie  1:02:14 Okay, well, you can reach me if you want to email me. It's Linda at Linda mckenzie.net and that's m, A, C, K, E, N, Z, I, E, all one word, and Linda mckenzie.net that's my website, or they can go through healthy life.net and get me through that way too. And of course, I'm on all of the social media sites as well, right? You know? And on my website is all my appearances. I go up to San Jose and do expos and talks. And, you know, just did, just came and finished a past life regression class. I think I'm going to be doing a gemstone healing class. And, you know, whatever strikes me for the moment is what I do. So you never know. So you go on there, and you know, they want me. I've done a TV show this year, and they want me to do another one and continue. I said, Well, kind of have to pay me, because I'm doing a lot of stuff, you know, you know, you have to give me a little bit more money if you want another one. So I gave them their one, first one, and it's called Live with Linda, and that you can reach on, it's on Roku and Amazon, and that was just last September, and it's live with Linda, and it's also on soul search.tv and you can get it there as well. Michael Hingson  1:03:30 So did the Sci Fi Channel ever come back to you anymore? Linda MacKenzie  1:03:33 No, no, just checking that time, you know, I wasn't young and cute anymore. Now cute. I'm still, Michael Hingson  1:03:40 yeah, you're cute. I believe it'd be cute. You're cute. I'm cute. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening. I hope that you've learned something that you find there are relevant things that Linda has had to say. I'd love to hear from you. Please email me at Michael H, I, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, I'd love to hear your thoughts about today, wherever you are experiencing the podcast. Podcast, please give us a five star rating. We value it, and we value your thoughts and your comments, and for all of you, and Linda you as well. If you know of anyone else who we ought to have as a guest on unstoppable mindset, please introduce us. We're always looking for more people to visit with and talk with. As I've said many times, I believe everyone has a story to tell and and we a

In this episode of I Can't See You, I break down how the Ray-Ban Meta glasses became a real travel tool—from PHL to Podfest in Orlando. I used "Hey Meta, what's in front of me?" to read signs, confirm gates, navigate MCO, and find my way around the Renaissance at SeaWorld and the conference sessions. Along the way, I share a funny airport moment when people thought I was talking to them, plus the soft pretzel mission that finally paid off (pretzel braid, Apple Pay, done). I also recap Podfest highlights—AI, video workflows, and new strategies like Pinterest—while sharing where the tech nailed it and where it still annoys me. Show notes at https://www.iCantCU.com/295     Links Mentioned Product links are affiliate links so that I may earn a commission. Ray-Ban Meta Glasses, Wayfarer: https://amzn.to/42EU0Sy Like the sunglasses Jane bought for me? https://amzn.to/4oGWLfx From Where to Here Podcast: https://fromwheretoherepod.com/ Federation Focus on the NFB of PA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa I edit the show with Descript and love it!: https://www.iCantCU.com/descript/ I process all audio using Auphonic: https://auphonic.com?source=dgdesignllc Be My Eyes app (free): https://www.bemyeyes.com/  Seeing AI app (free): https://www.seeingai.com/  That Real Blind Tech Show ep 195: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-195-ces-26-hard-tech-and-soft-balls/id1526258077?i=1000744724124 Watch iCantCU episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU Support iCantCU When shopping at Amazon, I would appreciate it if you clicked on this link to make your purchases: https://www.iCantCU.com/amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associate Program and earn commissions on qualifying purchases. The best part is, you don't pay extra for doing this! White Canes Connect Podcast Episode 148 In episode 148 of White Canes Connect, we share the powerful General Sessions remarks of David DeNotaris from the 2025 National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania State Convention in Harrisburg. Speaking from a lifetime of experience, David reflects on growing up with Braille, discovering the Federation, and the profound influence of Dr. Kenneth Jernigan on his understanding of blindness and self-respect. Through humor and deeply personal stories, he explores what it truly means to believe that it is respectable to be blind—and how that belief unlocks confidence in using Braille, mobility tools, technology, and advocacy skills without apology. Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/respect-belief-and-action-david-denotaris/id1592248709?i=1000744088201 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/3dHOmknIOgW9R7UEo69EH9 YouTube https://youtu.be/0oawJQcbBkA?si=Y7K-rnaBg6UQx50- White Canes Connect Website https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/148/      My Podcast Gear Here is all my gear and links to it on Amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associates Program and earn a commission on qualifying purchases. Zoom Podtrak P4: https://amzn.to/33Ymjkt Zoom ZDM Mic & Headphone Pack: https://amzn.to/33vLn2s Zoom H1n Recorder: https://amzn.to/3zBxJ9O  Gator Frameworks Desk Mounted Boom Arm: https://amzn.to/3AjJuBK Shure SM58 S Mic: https://amzn.to/3JOzofg  Sony ZV-E10 camera : https://amzn.to/4fFBSxM  GoPro Hero 11 Black: https://amzn.to/3SKI7WX Rode Video Micro (used on GoPro): https://amzn.to/4kVMJWI Sennheiser Headset (1st 162 episodes): https://amzn.to/3fM0Hu0  Follow iCantCU on your favorite podcast directory! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/icantcu-podcast/id1445801370/  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nck2D5HgD9ckSaUQaWwW2  Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/iCantCU-Podcast-Podcast/B08JJM26BT  IHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-icantcu-podcast-31157111/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU   Connect on Social Media Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidbenj Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidbenj Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidbenj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbenj Are You or Do You Know A Blind Boss? If you or someone you know is crushing it in their field and is also blind, I want to hear from you! Call me at (646) 926-6350 and leave a message. Please include your name and town, and tell me who the Blind Boss is and why I need to have them on an upcoming episode. You can also email the show at iCantCUPodcast@gmail.com.

Fear is shaping how our kids grow up, and it may be costing them their confidence, resilience, and hope. In this conversation, I talk with Iuri Milo, a licensed clinical social worker with over 20 years of experience, about what he is seeing firsthand in schools and therapy rooms across the country. We explore the rise in student anxiety and suicide, how fear-based parenting and constant digital input affect young minds, and why building protective factors matters more than chasing risk labels. Iuri shares how School Pulse was created after a wave of student suicides, how proactive text-based support is helping students feel heard before they reach crisis, and why confidence, connection, and mindset are essential for long-term mental health. This episode offers a grounded, hopeful look at how parents, schools, and communities can help young people develop an Unstoppable mindset rooted in courage rather than fear. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear how Iuri's work in therapy led him to focus on helping students and families. 02:22 – Learn how immigrating to the U.S. shaped Iuri's resilience and outlook on life. 03:43 – Discover how missionary service helped Iuri build confidence and maturity. 12:13 – Hear what led to the creation of School Pulse after student suicides in the community. 17:20 – Learn why fear-based parenting may increase anxiety instead of confidence. 34:24 – Discover how proactive text-based support helps students before crisis begins. About the Guest: Iuri Melo is married to Katie, and is the grateful father of 5 incredibly cool children (Aydia, Elle, Jona, Kole, and Leila).  He is an LCSW of 20 years, and the Co-Founder of SchoolPulse.  Iuri is the published author of “Mind Over Grey Matter - Training the Mind to Heal the Brain”, and the best-seller for teens “Know Thy Selfie - Tips, Tricks, and Tools For an Awesome Life.”  He spent his 20 years as an LCSW in private practice, where he won several awards for his work, and developed a unique modality for his work with clients, “Adventure Based Therapy.” In 2017 after a several teen suicides hit his community in Southern Utah, and at the request of a local principal, Iuri Melo Co-created SchoolPulse.  Since then SchoolPulse has become the best student support service in the country, proactively delivering optimism, positivity, growth mindset strategies, and the best positive psychology skills directly to students and parents over text, email, and through schools.  This innovative evidence-based service is not only inspiring teens' lives, but also parents, and faculty.  SchoolPulse's objective is to help students to perform better academically, socially, and personally.  “Everyday at SchoolPulse is a highlight reel of courage, kindness, and growth.  It's amazing to see what a kind, respectful, and gentle interaction can do to heal and inspire our souls.”   With more than 300 schools, in over 25 states, SchoolPulse is a tsunami of goodness that is flooding schools throughout the country.  It sounds a bit fantastic that Iuri's vision of “blessing the human family” is happening over text, but indeed it is.   Iuri's sincere and enthusiastic approach can be seen in his VIDEOS which SchoolPulse delivers to students, parents, and faculty via text and email.  Iuri releases videos every week based on questions that teens have, and provides them with the answers they need to develop an extraordinary and growth minded psychology.    Ways to connect with Devin**:** Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/iuritiagomelo Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iuri-melo-1b41482/ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/iuritmelo/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SchoolPulsePodcast/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=2 Know Thy Selfie - t.ly/juUMB Mind Over Grey Matter - t.ly/SxNUU About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Protecting your ideas can be the difference between building momentum and watching someone else run with your work. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with patent attorney and entrepreneur Devin Miller to explore what founders and business owners really need to know about patents, trademarks, and intellectual property. Devin shares how his background in engineering, startups, and law shaped his approach to innovation, and he breaks down the real differences between provisional and non-provisional patents in clear, practical terms. We talk about common mistakes entrepreneurs make, how legal protection supports growth instead of slowing it down, and why understanding intellectual property early can help you compete with confidence. I believe this conversation will give you clarity, direction, and a stronger foundation for protecting what you work so hard to create. Highlights: 00:01:18 – Hear how growing up in a small town shaped Devin's approach to problem-solving and business.00:12:53 – Learn why Devin combined engineering, business, and law instead of choosing a single career path.00:19:32 – Discover how a student competition turned into a real wearable technology startup.00:30:57 – Understand the clear difference between patents, trademarks, and copyrights.00:33:05 – Learn when a provisional patent makes sense and when it does not.00:53:52 – Discover what practical options exist when competitors copy or knock off your product. About the Guest: Devin Miller is the founder of Miller IP, a firm launched in 2018 that helps startups and small businesses protect their inventions and brands without breaking the bank. He's overseen over a thousand patent and trademark filings with a 95 percent success rate on patents and an 85 percent success rate on trademarks, making sure garage inventors and side hustlers get the same high-quality service as big tech. Before starting his firm, Devin spent years at large law firms working with clients like Intel and Amazon, but he found his true passion in helping scrappy entrepreneurs turn ideas into assets. He blends legal know how with an entrepreneur's mindset, offering flat fee packages, DIY legal tools, and hosting webinars and a podcast series to demystify IP. A lifelong runner who knocks out 10+ miles a day and 30-40 miles daily biking (except Sunday), Devin listens to audiobooks and podcasts while training for marathons. When he's not drafting office action responses or co-hosting Inventive Journey, you might catch him brainstorming the next Inventive Youth program or sipping coffee while sketching partnership agreements. Ways to connect with Devin**:** If you'd like to talk strategy or swap running playlist recs, feel free to schedule a chat at http://strategymeeting.com LinkedIn profile  https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawwithmiller/ Firm website [https://www.lawwithmiller.com](https://www.lawwithmiller.com "https://www.lawwithmiller.com") About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hello to all of you, wherever you happen to be today, you are listening to or watching or both unstoppable mindset and I am your host. Mike hingson, our guest today is Devin Miller, who founded the company, Miller IP, and he'll tell us all about that and what that means and so on as we go through this. But I will tell you that he is a lawyer. He deals with patents and other things and a lot of stuff relating to startups. I think that's going to be a lot of fun to talk about. So without any further ado, as it were, Devin, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thanks for having me on. Excited to be here. Well, we're glad. We're glad you're here. Can you hear me? Okay, now I hear you. Devin Miller  02:06 Well, we're sorry for the delay, but I said I'm excited to be here and looking forward to chatting. Michael Hingson  02:11 Well, perfect. Well, let's start. I love to always do this. Let's start kind of at the beginning. Why don't you tell us about the early Devon, growing up and all that? Devin Miller  02:21 You know, I I'm happy to do. I don't know there's anything that probably stands out. I was probably fairly typical. So I was raised in a religious family, so we're attended church regularly every week. And I had a couple sisters, an older and a younger one, and was went through, went through schooling and or studied, probably the typical course. So I don't know there's anything stands out. I was in a small town, so grew up as, probably not as small as I'd like it to be anymore, but a small farming town, and it was, it was kind of always enjoyed the small town fill, and actually am back to being in that same hometown where I live now with my family. But yeah, so I did that, and I did probably the at the time, the typical thing with the it's growing up with kids and sports and doing things, and went through high school and and after that, jumped or went off to college. But I don't know if there's anything in particular that stands out in my mind, other than probably, at least in my mind, a pretty typical childhood and upbringing, but enjoyed it nonetheless. But happy to provide any details or I can jump into a bit about college. Michael Hingson  03:38 Well, where did you go to college? Devin Miller  03:40 Yeah, so I went to Brigham, young university, just or BYU, just out here in Utah. So I went off to so, or I graduated high school and I went off to a year of college. So I went off to BYU, kind of intending to go into electrical engineering, which is what I or one of the degrees I ended up studying with, and then I did that for a year, and after which I went off and did a served a religious mission for my church, so Church of Jesus Christ, or Latter Day Saints, otherwise nicknamed Mormon. So I went off and went to Taiwan for about two years. So didn't have any idea, even at that point where Taiwan was and certainly didn't know the language, but when studied that, or they have a training center where you get an opportunity to study it for about three months. So I studied it and then went off to Taiwan and served that religious mission for my church for a couple years before coming back to the high school, or good, not the high school to college to continue my studies. Michael Hingson  04:43 I several, several comments. One, I know what you mean about small hometowns. We moved from Chicago, where I was born, to California when I was five, we moved to a town called Palmdale, and it was a very small rural town about 60. Five miles north of Los Angeles. I don't know what the population was when we first moved there, but it couldn't have been more than 1000 or 1500 people spread out over a little bit of a distance. For me, it was great, because without there being a lot of traffic, I was able to do things I might not have done nearly as well in Chicago things like riding a bike, learning to ride a bike and walking to school and and not ever fearing about walking to school for any reasons, including being blind. But oftentimes I once I learned how to do it, I rode my own bike to school and locked it in the bike rack and then rode home and all that. But then Palmdale started to grow and I'm not quite sure what the population is today, but I live in a town about 55 miles east of Palmdale called Victorville, and as I described Victorville growing up, it was not even a speck on a radar scope compared to the small town of Palmdale, but we we moved down to Southern California from the Bay Area my wife and I to be closer to family and so on. In 2014 we wanted to build a house for Karen, because she was in a wheelchair her whole life. So we wanted to get a a house that would be accessible. And my gosh, the only place we could find any property was Victorville. And at that time, in 2014 it had 115,000 people in it. It has grown. Now it Devin Miller  06:31 has grown. And it tends to be that, you know, it feels like everybody's always kind of chasing the small town then, or people find out about it. Everybody moves in. It's no longer a small town, and then you're off to chasing the the next small town, wherever that might be. So it's kind of a perpetual cycle of of chasing that small or at least for the people to like it. Not everybody loves it, but I'm certainly a proponent of chasing that small town feel from from place to places, as you're trying to or trying to find or recreate what you probably grew up with. So it is a it is a cycle that everybody I think is chasing, Michael Hingson  07:09 yeah, well, for me now, my wife passed away in 2022 we were married 40 years. And so the thing about it is that there are probably advantages for me living alone, being in a place that has a few more people and a few more of the kind of amenities that at least somewhat larger towns have, like a Costco and some some restaurants. We actually live in a homeowner's development, a homeowner's association called Spring Valley Lake, and I live within walking distance of the Country Club, which has a nice restaurant, so I'm able to go to the to the restaurant whenever I choose, and that's kind of nice. So there's value for me and being here and people say, Well, do you ever want to move from Victorville now that your wife died? And why do I want to do that? Especially since I have a 3.95% mortgage? You know, I'm not going to do that, and I'm in a new house that. Well, relatively new. It was built in 2016 so it's pretty much built to code. And insulation is great. Solar is great on the house. Air conditioning works, so I can't complain. Devin Miller  08:20 No, sounds like a good setup, and it's kind of one where, why, if you enjoy where you're at, why would you move to go somewhere else that you wouldn't necessarily enjoy? So it just sounds like it works out. Michael Hingson  08:29 Well, it does, and I can always, as I need to being a keynote speaker and traveling, there's a shuttle that'll take me down to the nearest airports. So that works out. Well, that's awesome. So you went to, I'm a little bit familiar with the the whole LDS missionary program, Mission program, we we were not part of the church, but we lived, when my wife and I got married, we lived in Mission Viejo and we had neighbors right next door to us, who were members of the church, and they came over one day and they said, we have an issue. And I said, Okay. And my wife said, Okay, what's the issue? Well, we have a couple of missionaries coming in, and the only homes that are available to these two boys are homes that already have young female girls in them. So they really can't be in those homes. Would you be willing to rent your one of your rooms to missionaries? And so we said, and well, Karen said, because she was a member of the Methodist church, we said, as long as they don't try to mormonize us, we won't try to methodize them. And we would love to do it. And it worked out really well. We had a couple of missionaries for a while, and then they switched out. And eventually we had a gentleman from Tonga for a while, and we actually had a couple girls for for a while. So it worked out really well, and we we got to know them all, and it was a great relationship. And they did their work, and at Christmas time, they certainly were invited to our Christmas parties. We. Had every year a party. What we actually had was what we call a Christmas tree upping. We got the tree, we brought it into the house, and we invited all of our friends and neighbors to come and decorate the tree in the house. Because, needless to say, we weren't going to do that very well. Karen especially wasn't going to be able to stand up and decorate the tree. So we got them to do all the tree decorations and all that, and we fed them. So it worked out. Devin Miller  10:26 Well, it's awesome. Sounds like, great. And you hit on. I said, that's probably my, my favorite part of the Christmas is a Christmas tree. So growing up, we always had a real live tree, but it was always, you know, it was downstairs in the basement, and had lower ceilings. And so I was always kind of the opinion, hey, when I grow up, I want to have the a huge, you know, kind of like in the newbies at 20 plus or 20 or 20 plus foot tree, yeah. And lo and behold, we, or at least the couple houses that we build have always had, at least in the living space, have had the pretty high ceilings. And so that's always what we do. We'll go out and we'll cut down a live tree. So we'll go out to kind of in nature, to the forest, where they let you cut them down, and we'll, we'll cut down, usually it's around a 20 plus foot tree, and then have it strung up in the house. And I always tell my wife, I said, I'd rather that one could be my Christmas present. I'd be just as happy, because as long as I have my tree, it's a good Christmas for me. Michael Hingson  11:23 Yeah, oh, I hear you. Well, one of the boys who lived next door to us went off on a mission to, I think it was Argentina, and was gone for, I guess, two years. What was really funny is when he came back, it took him a while to re acclimatize his speaking English and getting back his American accent. He was he definitely had much more of a Spanish accent, and was much more used to speaking Spanish for a while. So the the three month exposure period certainly got him started at the at the center there in Utah. And then he went off and did his missionary work and then came home. But, you know, it's, it's got to be a wonderful and a very valuable experience. How do you think it affected you? Devin Miller  12:10 Yeah, I think I said, I think it would be, you said it probably well, is it like one where to say, Hey, this is the most fun time in your life, and you'll never have a more fun time. I don't know that. It's kind of like, you know, I liken it to I so I like to do a lot of running, so or in older years. I don't know that I was as much in younger years, but kind of discovered not that I love running, per se, but love to get out and decompress and otherwise, kind of have a time where I don't have a lot of intrusions or other things that are pressing in on life. And so with that, you know, I've done a number of marathons and marathons, you know, everybody again, says, Well, did you have fun? Or was it a good or was it good marathon? So I don't know that it's ever fun. I don't and do it, but it's a good accomplishment. You it's, you go out, you set your mind to something, and then otherwise, at the end of the day, you reach your goal. And, you know, kind of has the that sense of accomplishment and learning and become improving yourself. That's probably a lot of how I like in a mission is, you know, you have a lot of stresses of learning a new language, being in a different culture, doing something that you're unfamiliar with or not accustomed to, and at the end, you know, you learn a lot of things, you are gain a lot of skills. You hopefully impact a lot of people's lives for the better. And so it is definitely one of those where it's a great accomplishment, but it's not, you know, it's not one way to say, hey, this was a fun vacation where I got to go play for two years. So it it works out well, and I would absolutely do it again. Michael Hingson  13:31 Yeah, I'm sure you learned a lot, and you probably learned a whole lot more in a lot of ways, than most of the people that you you visited with because you treated it as an adventure and an adventure to learn. So that's pretty cool, absolutely. So you came back from that and you went back to college, and did you continue in electrical engineering? Or what Devin Miller  13:56 did you do? Yes and no. So I did continue in electrical engineering. Or so I came back and, you know, the intent was, and what I continue to do is to study electrical engineering. I did add on a second degree, which I was a Mandarin Chinese and so I can't remember, I mentioned I I served in Taiwan for those couple years and had an opportunity to kind of, you know, learn and study the language. So as I was doing that, I kind of came back and said, Well, if I've already put in the effort to learn the language and to study it, I might as well, you know, utilize it, or add it to the degree. And so I I really started, or I added that as a second degree to the first degree. So I came out with both the degree in Chinese or man or Chinese, as well as electrical engineering. So yes, continue to study that. And then from that, you know, kind of just as a part of that story. So I was coming out, kind of getting, you know, the senior year, kind of getting towards the end of that degree, and looked at and said, you know, what do I want to do when I grow up? And I still know if I know the full answer, but I did look at it and say, Hey, I, you know, I don't know exactly what I want to do when I grow up, but I don't, I like engineering. Engineering, but I don't want to be an engineer in the sense that, you know, not that I didn't like engineering, but it was one where a typical electrical engineers, you come out of graduate school, you go work for a big company. You're a very small cog and a very big Will you work for. You know, 1015, years, you gain enough experience to have any say your direction and what projects you work on or really have any impact. Not saying that's not really what I want to do when I grow up, or when I start into the working world. And so kind of with that, I, you know, I had a couple interests I enjoyed, you know, kind of the startup, small business, kind of that type of world. And I also found it interesting to on the legal aspect of intellectual property, so patents, trademarks, and really more. At the idea of, hey, you're going to work with a lot of cooling or cool inventions, cool people are working on a lot of unique things, and you get a lot more variety. And you get, you know, kind of be more impactful. And so that was kind of the the Crossroads I found myself at saying which, you know, kind of which direction I want to go. And, you know, kind of, rather than take one or the other, I kind of, I split the road and decided I was going to do both. So I went off to graduate school and did both an MBA or a master's in business administration as well as a law degree, kind of focused more on intellectual property. So went off and studied both of those kind of with the intent of, you know, I don't want to just be fit into one box or do just one thing, but I'd like to keep a foot in the business world, startup world, and have an opportunity to pursue my own business as well as doing the law degree. So I did that in a Case Western Reserve out in Cleveland, Ohio, studying both of those degrees Michael Hingson  16:34 when you were getting your degree in manner, in Chinese. Was that all about speaking the language, or was it also involved in history and civilization and understanding more about China? What was it like? Devin Miller  16:47 It was really more, certainly, there was a or, I guess, are you saying within college or within the mission itself? 16:54 In college? Okay, yeah. I mean, it was, Devin Miller  16:57 it was still primarily focused on the language. You know, the nice thing is, you can test out of a number of the, you know, entry level or their beginning classes, as long as you can show a proficiency. So there may have been some of that, and you still got, you know, some of the classes, would you still study a little bit of poetry, or, you know, within the language context, they've used poetry as a way to kind of learn different aspects of the language. You'd get a little bit of history, but pretty, or vast majority of focus was kind of both speaking as well as the the written and, you know, those are really as opposed to, like English speaking, where it's phonetics and you can or sound out and kind of understand what a you know, what something means by sounding it out, you don't have to know the word in order To, you know, to pronounce it. Chinese is not that way. So you have characters that are just every character you have to memorize. There is no phonetics. There's no way that you can look at a character and sound it out. And so there's a large amount of just memorizing, memorizing, you know, 20,000 characters to read a newspaper type of a thing. And then on the flip side is you have to learn the language, which is, you know, which are already focused on that, more on the mission, but you have to do pronunciation, so you can say the same word with different tones and it has entirely different meaning. So really, there was enough there on the language side, they tended to primarily focus on that, just because there was quite a bit there to Michael Hingson  18:19 dive into. It's a complicated language. Devin Miller  18:23 It it is certainly or uniquely different from English. I would say probably English to Chinese speakers is the hardest language because it's the most different from their language. And vice versa for English speaking Chinese is at least one of the this or harder languages because it is entirely different. So it is one that has a lot of intricacies that you get to learn. Michael Hingson  18:45 I took German in high school for three years, and then in college, I did a lot of shortwave listening and encountered radio Japan a bunch. So I actually took a year of Japanese, and I think from a written language, it's a lot more complicated than spoken language. I think it's a lot more straightforward than Chinese and a lot of ways easier to learn. But even so, it is different than than Latin languages by any standard. Devin Miller  19:16 But it is. It's an animal in and of itself, but it makes it fun. Michael Hingson  19:21 Yeah, that's right, it does make it fun. Incident. And then, as I said, it was an adventure. And all of that was, was an adventure. My master's is in physics. That was an adventure. And until you spend a lot of time dealing with physics and hopefully getting beyond just doing the math, you learn how much of a philosophical bent and how much about society and the way things work really is wrapped up in physics. So again, it's it's kind of fun, and unlike a lot of physicists or engineers. I've never thought that one is better or worse than the other. I think they both have purposes. And so as a physics person, I never pick on engineers. Devin Miller  20:11 I am, I wouldn't pick up. I wouldn't pick on any physics or physicists or physics majors, either, because that's equally, if not more difficult. And so there's a lot of learning that goes on and involved with all of them. But they're all of them are fun areas to Michael Hingson  20:26 study with. They are. So once you you got your master's degrees, and you you got your law degree, what did you go off and do? Devin Miller  20:36 Yeah, so I mean, I would probably back it up just a little bit. So kind of during that period where I was getting the degrees, couple things happened. Had a couple kids. So started out first kid while I was doing the, I guess the second year where I was in under or doing the law and MBA degree, doing it as a joint degree. And so had the had a kid. And then during that same period, the next year, about a year about a year and a half later, had another kid. And so that puts me as a it's a four year program, if you combine both of them together. And so I was in the kind of the third year, the four year program. And while I was doing those studies, you know, I had a I was doing a couple things. One is, I was doing the both, or studying both majors, raising the family. I was working about 20 hours as a law clerk or for a law firm, and then during that, I can't remember or if it was a flyer, or if it was, you know, an email or whatnot, but came across a business competition, or it's kind of a, it was kind of a, a multi disciplinary competition wherever, you know, people of different degrees and different fields of study would get together, you form a group of four or five, and you work on developing an idea, and then you would enter it into the competition and see how it goes. And so we did that the first year, and we did something, an idea to make Gym Bags less smelly, and then enter that in and took second place. And during that period, next year comes along, we're all in our final year of our degree. And as we're doing that, we are studying the degree and or entering the competition again. And we decided to do something different. It was for wearables. You know, this is before Apple Watch, or, you know, the Fitbit, or anything else. It was well before I knew that, but we just said, Hey, when I was there, thinking, hey, wouldn't it be cool I'd ran my or, I think, my second marathon that time. Wouldn't it be awesome if you could monitor your hydration level so that you can make sure you're staying well hydrated throughout and it helps with the air, not being a sore and being, you know, quicker recovery and performing better. And so out of that, took the genesis of that idea, entered it back into the business comp, or that is a new idea, into the business competition, and did that with the partners, and took second place again, still a little bitter, or bitter that about that, because the people that took first place has entered the same thing that they entered the previous year, but polished, or took the money they've earned previously and polished it made it look a little nicer, and won again because it looked the most polished. But that aside, was a great, or great competition. Enjoyed it. And from that, you know, said, Hey, I think this is a good idea. I think it can be a, you know, something that you could actually build a business around. And so said, Hey, or kind of told the the people that were in the the group with me, you know, we're all graduating. We're going different directions. Would be pretty hard to do a startup altogether. So why don't we do this? Or why don't you guys take all the money that I got, you know that we you're in some reward money, or, you know, prize money. If you take my portion, split it amongst yourselves, and I'll just take ownership of the idea, whatever it is, where, you know, wherever I take it, and simply own it outright, you know, basically buying them out. And so that's what I did. So coming out of, you know, getting the MBA in the law degree, that was kind of always the intent. So, or coming out of school, I went and joined a law firm here in Utah. Was a full time patent attorney, and then alongside, you know, had the side hustle, what I'd really say is kind of a second full time job to where I was, you know, pursuing that startup or small business alongside of doing the law firm. So that was kind of the the genesis for, as I graduated full time attorney working, you know, with a lot of our cool clients and other things, and then also incorporating the desire to do a startup or small business. And that's kind of been, really, the trajectory that I've taken throughout my career is really, you know, finding ways to combine or to pursue both interests together. Michael Hingson  24:26 What happened to the business? Devin Miller  24:28 Yeah, so it so it's still alive today. I've been, I exited. Now it's been a couple year and a half, two years somewhere in there. Have to think back. So it started out. So with the business I started out, it was actually one where, rewinding just a little bit when we when I got started, my dad was also an electrical engineer. He'd actually, you know, he's well or farther into his career, and he done a number of different things across their medical devices through his career. And so he kind of, or he joined on as kind of doing it with us. Hustle with me, and we took that, started to build it. We brought on some additional team members. We brought on an investor, and actually built out and grew the business. It also evolved. So we were starting to test or test out the technology have it with some colleges and some other, you know, athletes, which was a natural place to start it at and about that time, and we were getting kind of to that next hurdle where we either needed to get a further investment or cash infusion, you know, to kind of take it to a more of a marketable, you know, a except a Polish full or ready to go to market type of product. And at that time, as we're exploring that we had or came or got connected with somebody that was more in the diabetes monitoring, they were doing it more from a service base. But you know, the overlay as to kind of how the technologies are overlapped with what they're doing tended to work out pretty well. And so we ended up combining the business to be one, where it was redirected a lot of the technology we developed underlining to be more of a wearables for the diabetes monitor. So that was a number of years ago. I stayed on doing a lot of, some of the engineering and development, primarily more in the intellectual property realm, of doing a lot of patents and whatnot. And then about a year and a half, two years ago, got bought out, was exited from that company and and that continues on today. It's still alive and growing, and I kind of watch it from, you know, from a distance, so to speak, or kind of continue to maintain interest, but don't are not necessarily active within the business anymore. So that was kind of a long answer to a shorter question, but that's kind of where the business eventually evolved to. Michael Hingson  26:36 So now I'm sure that the company is doing things like developing or working with products like continuous glucose monitors and so on. Devin Miller  26:46 Yep, yeah, that's kind of the direction as to what they're headed you Michael Hingson  26:49 well, and what's what's been interesting about several of the CGM type devices is that for people who are blind, there's been a real push to try to get some of them to be accessible. And what finally occurred about a year ago, maybe two years ago, is that one of the devices that's out there was approved to actually incorporate an app on a smartphone, and when the app came out, then it was really easy, although it took an effort to convince people to pay attention to it and do it, but it became technically a lot easier to deal with access, because all you had to do was to make the app accessible. And so there now is a continuous glucose monitor that that is accessible, whereas you wherein you get all the information from the app through voiceover, for example, on the iPhone or through talkback on a android phone that you get when you're just looking at the screen, which is the way it really should be anyway, because If you're going to do it, you should be inclusive and make it work for everyone. Devin Miller  28:06 No, that's cool. Yeah, there's a number of I think, between, you know, being a prevalent, you know, issue that people are dealing with, to, you know, different trying to address things earlier on, and also to motivate people do healthier lifestyle. And kind of the direction I think, is headed where a lot of the the company that's continues on today, from our original technology, is on the non invasive side. So a lot of them have, you have to have a patch, or you have to have periodically prick, or put an arm, you know, arm, right? Something where has a needle in the arm. And this one is kind of trying hair working to take it to that next level, to where it's no longer having to be invasive, and it's really all without having air with sensors that don't require you to have any sort of pain or prick in order to be able to utilize it. So kind of fun to fun to see how the industry continues to evolve. Michael Hingson  28:55 Well, today, we're working on that, and tomorrow, of course, the tricorder. So you know, we'll, we'll get to Star Trek 29:03 absolutely one step at a time. Michael Hingson  29:05 Yeah, but I've kind of figured that people were certainly working on non invasive technology so that you didn't have to have the sensor stuck in your arm. And I'm not surprised that that that's coming, and we'll be around before too long, just because we're learning so much about other ways of making the measurements that it makes sense to be able to do that. Devin Miller  29:31 Yep, no, absolutely. You know, it is a hard nut to crack. The body is very complex. A lot of things going on, and to measure it, not invasively, is certainly a lot that goes into it, but I think there's a lot of good, good technologies coming out. A lot of progress is being made, and certainly fun to continue to see how the health devices continue to hit the market. So certainly a cool area. Michael Hingson  29:53 So why did you decide, or maybe it was a natural progression, but why did you decide to go into patent law? Yeah. Devin Miller  30:01 I mean, I think it was probably a natural progression, and in the sense that, you know, it is one where overall desire was, Hey, I like engineering from the sense I like to think or how things work and kind of break things down and to have a better understanding. So really, intellectual property law and patents and trademarks and others allowed me to work with a lot of startups and small businesses, see a lot of cool things that they're developing still play a hand in it, and yet, also not, you know, be mired down to a long project over multiple years where you, you know, you're a small cog in a big wheel. And so, yeah, that was kind of one where it fit well within kind of the overall business, you know, business desire and business aspect of what I wanted to accomplish, and also just overall, you know, enjoying it or enjoying it. So that's kind of where it might, you know, it married well with the the desire to do startups and small businesses, as well as to work with a lot of other startups and small businesses. Michael Hingson  30:55 That's a lot of fun, to be able to deal with startups and see a lot of new and innovative kinds of things. And being in patent law, you probably see more than a lot of people, which does get to be exciting in an adventure, especially when you see something that looks like it has so much potential. Yep. Devin Miller  31:14 No, it is. It is fun. I get to see everything from I've worked on everything from boat anchors to credit card thing or devices that help elderly people to remove them more easily, from their wallet to AI to drones to software other or software platforms to medical devices. So it gives a ability to have a pretty good wide exposure to a lot of cool, different, you know, very different types of innovations, and that makes her just, you know, a fun, fun time, and be able to work or work with the air businesses as they develop. Are all those different technologies? Michael Hingson  31:50 Well, on the the law side of things, what's the difference between a provisional patent and a non provisional filing? Devin Miller  31:57 Yeah, so, so I don't back it up, and I'll get to your question. But maybe I'd set the stages to when you're looking at what is the difference between a patent and trademark and copyright, because a lot of times when people look at that, that's probably a good question too. Provisional trademark, or I want a, you know, or a non provisional copyright, or whatever it might be, and kind of get the terminology mixed up. So if you're to take it one step back, a provisional patent app or a patent is something that goes towards protecting an invention. So something that has the functionality that does something, that accomplishes something, a trademark is going to be something that is protecting of a brand. So name of a company, name of a product, a cash, phrase, a logo, and those type of things all really fall under trademarks and copyrights are going to be something that's more creative in nature. So a painting, a sculpture, a picture, a book, you know, all those type of things are going to fall under copyrights. And so really, when you're looking at it, you know, kind of breaking it down initially, you look at it as you know, which one is it. And so now to your question, Michael Hingson  32:58 well, before you go there, before you go ahead, before you go there. So if I'm writing software, does that fall under patent or copyright? I would assume if the software is to do something, it would be a patent. Devin Miller  33:12 So software primarily is under a patent. So there's, technically, you can copyright software. Now there's, it's pretty limited in its scope of protection. So if you're to do or software and do it under a copyright, really, all it protects is the exact way that you wrote the code. So you know, got it using this exact coding language. If somebody come along, copy and paste my code, you'll be protected. But it doesn't protect the functionality of how this code works or what it does. It is purely just how you wrote the code. So most of the time, when you're looking at software, it's really going to be more under a patent, because you're not going to want to just simply protect the identical way that you wrote the code, but rather what it does and what it does, yeah. So yep. So yeah, you for if you're to do as as your example, software, primarily, you're going to it's going to fall under patents. Michael Hingson  34:01 Okay, so anyway, back to provisional and non provisional. Devin Miller  34:05 Yeah, so, and when you're looking at doing a patent, you can do there's a couple different types of patents. One is a design patent. It really just goes to something the esthetic nature, the look and feel of a of an invention. So if you're thinking of the iPhone, you know, used to have the curved edges. I had the circle or a button at the bottom. It had, you know, the speaker placement and all those things. And it was just that outward appearance, not the functionality, could go under a design patent, but what the primary patent, which is what most people pursue, is what's called the utility patent application. And the utility patent application is really going towards the functionality of how something works. So the utility, how it works, what it does, and then kind of the purpose of it. And so with that, when you're looking at pursuing a utility patent application, there are a couple different types of patents that you can or types of utility patent patent applications. So. As you mentioned, one is called a provisional patent application. The other one is called a non provisional patent application. So a provisional patent application is kind of set up primarily, a lot of times for startups or small businesses where they're going to have a some product or an innovation that they're working on. They're in earlier stages. They're wanting to kind of protect what they have while they continue to develop it, and kind of flush it out. So provisional patent application is set up to be a one year placeholder application. So it will get, you know, you file it, you'll get patent pending, you'll get a date of invention, and it'll give you a year to decide if you want to pursue a full patent application or not. So you can file that gives you that one year time frame as a placeholder. The non provisional patent application would be the full patent application. So that would be what has, all the functionality, all the features, all the air, formalities and air, and it will go through the examination process. We'll go look at it for patentability. So those are kind of the difference provisional, one year, placeholder, less expensive, get your patent pending, versus the non provisional, that's the full patent application and gives you kind of that, or we'll go through examination. Michael Hingson  36:12 Do most people go through the provisional process just because it not only is less expensive, but at least it puts a hold and gives you a place. Devin Miller  36:22 It really just depends on where people are at. So kind of, you know, a lot of times people ask, Hey, well, what would you recommend? And I'll usually say, hey, there are typically two reasons why I would do a provisional patent application. And if you don't fall into either of those camps, then I would probably do a non provisional patent. Got it. So generally, the two reasons I get one is certainly budgetary. Give you an example. So our flat fee, you know, we do our primarily everything, flat fee in my firm, and a provisional patent application to prepare and file it, our flat fee is 2500 versus a non provisional patent application is 6950 so one is, Hey, your startup, small business, to have a limited funds, you're wanting to get a level of protection in place while you continue to pursue or develop things, then you would oftentimes do that as a provisional patent application. And the other reason, a lot of times where I would recommend it is, if you're saying, Hey, we've got a initial innovation, we think it's going to be great. We're still figuring things out, so we'd like to get something in place while we continue to do that research and develop it and kind of further figure it out. So that would be kind of, if you fall into one of those camps where it's either budgetary overlay, or it's one where you're wanting to get something in place and then take the next year to further develop it, then a provisional patent application is oftentimes a good route. There are also a lot of clients say, Hey, I'm, you know, we are pretty well. Did the Research Development getting ready to release it in the marketplace. While we don't have unlimited funds, we still have the ability to just simply go or go straight to a non provisional so we can get the examination process started, and then they'll go that route. So both of them are viable route. It's not kind of necessarily. One is inherently better or worse than the other is kind of more where you're at along the process and what, what kind of fits your needs the best. Michael Hingson  38:09 But at least there is a process that gives you options, and that's always good. Absolutely, patent laws, I well, I won't say it's straightforward, but given you know, in in our country today, we've got so many different kinds of things going on in the courts and all that, and sometimes one can only shake one's head at some of the decisions that are made regarding politics and all that, but that just seems to be a whole lot more complicated and a lot less straightforward than what you do With patent law? Is that really true? Or are there lots of curves that people bend things to go all sorts of different ways that make life difficult for you? Devin Miller  38:50 Um, probably a little bit of both. I think that it so. The law, legal system in general, is a much more slower moving enemy, so it does have a bit more of a kind of a basis to anticipate where things are headed in general. Now, the exception is, there always is an exception to the rule. Is that anytime the Supreme Court gets involved with patent law cases, I'd say 95% of the time, they make it worse rather than better. So, you know, you get judges that none of them are really have an experience or background in patent law. They've never done it. They really don't have too much familiarity with it, and now they're getting posed questions that are fairly involved in intricate and most of the time when they make decisions, they make it worse. It's less clear. You know, it's not as great of understanding, and it otherwise complicates things more. And so when you get the Supreme Court involved, then they can kind of make it more difficult or kind of shake things up. But by and large, it is a not that there isn't a lot of or involved in going through the process to convince the patent and examiner the patent office of patentability and make sure it's well drafted and has the it's good of coverage and scope, but at least there is, to a degree, that ability to anticipate. Hate, you know what it what's going to be required, or what you may likely to be looking at. You know? The other exception is, is, you know, the, ironically, I think the patent office is the only budget or producing or budget positive entity within all of the government. So every other part of the government spends much more money than they ever make. The Patent Office is, I think the, I think the postal office at one point was the other one, and they have, now are always in the in the red, and never make any money. But, you know, they are the patent office. Now, the problem with that is, you think, great, well now they can reinvest. They can approve, they should have the best technology, they should be the most up to date. They should have, you know, all the resources because they're self funding, and yet, there's always a piggy bank that the government goes to raid and redirects all those funds to other pet projects. And so, or the patent office is always, perpetually underfunded, as ironic as that is, because they're getting, always getting the piggy bank rated, and so with that, you know, they are, if you're to go into a lot of the patent office, their interfaces, their websites or databases, their systems, it feels like you're the onset of the or late 90s, early 2000s as far as everything goes. And so that always is not necessarily your question, but it's always a bit aggravating that you know you can't, as an example, can't submit color drawings. People ask, can you submit videos? Nope, you can't submit any videos of your invention, you know, can you provide, you know, other types of information? Nope, it's really just a written document, and it is line drawings that are black and white, and you can't submit anything beyond that. So there's one where I think eventually it will sometime, maybe shift or change, but it's going to be not anytime soon. I don't think there's any time on the horizon, because they're kind of stuck it once they move, moved over to the lit or initially onto the computer system, that's about where that evolution stopped. Michael Hingson  41:51 Well, the other thing though, with with videos, especially when you get AI involved and so on, are you really seeing a video of the invention. Or are you seeing something that somebody created that looks great, but the invention may not really do it. So I can understand their arguments, but there have to be ways to deal with that stuff. Devin Miller  42:13 Yeah, and I think that even be prior to AI, even we just had, you know, videos been around for 20 or 30 years, even, you know, digital format or longer. That probably, and the problem is, I think it's more of the search ability. So if you have a drawing, you can more easily search drawings and compare them side by side, and they'll do it. If you have a video, you know what? What format is the video? And is it a, you know, dot movie, or dot MOV, or is it.mp for is it color? Is it black and white? How do you capture it? Is it zoomed in as a kind of show all the details? Or is it zoomed out? And I think that there's enough difficulty in comparing video side by side and having a rigid enough or standardized format, the patent office said, man, we're not going to worry about it. Yes, so we could probably figure something out, but that's more work than anybody, any administration or any of the directors of the patent office ever want to tackle so it's just always kind of kicked down the road. Michael Hingson  43:06 Do they ever actually want to see the invention itself? Devin Miller  43:12 Not really, I mean, you so the short answer is no. I mean, they want to see the invention as it's captured within the the patent application. So the problem Michael Hingson  43:21 is, the drawing, they don't want to see the actual device, or whatever it is, well, and a lot Devin Miller  43:24 of times, you know as a inventors, they you know as a patent applicants, as the inventors and the owners, you're saying, hey, but I want to show them the invention. Problem is, the invention doesn't always mirror exactly what's showing in the patent application. Because you're on generation three of your product patent application is still in generation one, yeah, and so it doesn't mirror, and so the examiners are supposed to, they don't always, or aren't always good, and sometimes pull things and they shouldn't, but they're supposed to just consider whatever is conveyed in the patent application. Yeah, it's a closed world. And so bringing those additional things in now you can, so technically, you can request a live in office interview with the examiner, where you sit down live. You can bring in your invention or other or details and information, and when you do it live, face to face with an interview, you can walk them through it. Most very few people attorneys ever do that because one clients aren't going to want to pay for you to one of the offices, put you up in a hotel, you know, sit there, spend a day or two to or with the examiner to walk them through it. It just adds a significant amount of expense. Examiners don't particularly like it, because they have to dedicate significantly more time to doing that. Yeah, they're allotted, so they lose they basically are doing a lot of free work, and then you're pulling in a lot of information that they really can't consider. So you technically can. But I would say that you know, the likelihood of the majority of attorneys, 99 point whatever, percent don't do that, including myself. I've never been to do a live or live one, just because it just doesn't, it doesn't have enough advantage to make it worthwhile. Michael Hingson  44:58 Well, in talking about. About the law and all the things that go on with it. One of the things that comes to mind is, let's say you have somebody in the United States who's patenting, or has made a patent. What happens when it all goes to it gets so popular, or whatever, that now it becomes an international type of thing. You've got, I'm sure, all sorts of laws regarding intellectual property and patents and so on internationally. And how do you get protection internationally for a product? Devin Miller  45:32 File it in each country separately. So, you know, there are people, and I understand the inclinations, hey, I want to get a worldwide or global patent that covers everything in every country. The short answer is, you can't. I mean, technically, you could, if you file a patent into every country separately, nobody, including when I used to work or do work for companies including Intel and Amazon and Red Hat and Ford. They don't have patents in every single country throughout the world because they just don't have enough marketplace. You know, you go to a very small, let's say, South African country that you know, where they just don't sell their product enough in it, it just doesn't make the sense, or the courts or the systems or the patent office isn't well enough to find, or it's not enforceable enough that it just doesn't capture that value. And so there isn't a ability to have a global, worldwide patent, and it really is one where you have to file into each country separately. They each have their own somewhat similar criteria, still a different, somewhat similar process, but they each have their own criteria in their process that has to go through examination. So when you're looking at you know when you want to go for whether it's in the US or any other country, when you're deciding where you want to file it, it's really a matter of what marketplaces you're going to be selling the product into. So if you look at it and you know, I have as an example, some clients that 95% of their marketplace is all in the US, that's where they anticipate, that's probably where they're going to sell it. Well, yes, you could go and find, if you have 2% of your marketplace in Japan, you could go file a patent and get it into Japan, but you have such a small amount of your marketplace that's probably there that it doesn't make sense. And vice versa will have as an example. And a lot of times in the medical devices, they'll a lot of times file both in the EU as well as in the US, because those are two of the predominant medical device and are places where a lot of innovation is going on, where there's a lot of focus on utilization, development, medical devices, and there's just a lot of that demand. And so you're really going to look at it is which, where's your marketplace. The other times are the people, a lot of times, they'll get tripped up on so they'll say, Well, I probably need to file into China, right? And I said, Well, maybe because the inclination is, well, everybody just goes to China. They'll knock off the product. And so I want to have a patent in China so that I can, you know, fight against the knockoffs. And that isn't while I again, understand why they would ask that question. It wouldn't be the right way to convey it. Because if you if all it is is they you have no real, you know, no desire, no plan, to go into China. You're not going to sell it. You're not going to build a business there. If they're knocking it off and just just doing it in China, so to speak, then they're not. There isn't going to be a need to file a patent in China, because you don't have any marketplace in there. There's nothing really to protect. And if somebody makes it in China as a just picking on China, making as an example, and imports it into the US, you can still enforce your patent or otherwise do or utilize it to stop people from importing knock off because it's in the US, because they're, yeah, exactly, they're selling it, importing it, or otherwise doing activities in the US. So it's really a matter of where your marketplace is, not where you think that somebody might knock it off. Or, Hey, I'm gonna get a try and get a global patent, even though my marketplace is really in one or two spots. Michael Hingson  48:38 What about products like, say, the iPhone, which are commonly used all over. Devin Miller  48:44 Yeah, they're going to do, they'll do a lot of countries. They still Michael Hingson  48:47 won't do. They'll still do kind of country by country. Devin Miller  48:50 Yeah, they'll now, they'll do a lot of countries. Don't get me wrong, a lot of right. Phones are sold throughout the world, but they'll still look at it as to where it is, and they still have, you know, issues with them. So one of the interesting tidbits as an example, so going back and rewinding your time, taking apple as an example. You know, they came out with, originally, the iPod, then they had iPhone, and then they had the iPad. Now the question is, when they originally came out with their watch, what did they call it? 49:17 Apple Watch? Apple Watch. Now, why Devin Miller  49:20 didn't they call the I wash, which is what it made sense. It goes right along with the iPhone, the iPad, the iPhone, you know, the all of those iPod on that. And it was because somebody had already got a trademark in China that was for a different company, unrelated to the apple that had it for the iWatch. And so when Apple tried to go into the country, they tried to negotiate. They tried to bully. They weren't able to successfully get the rights or to be able to use I wash within China. China was a big enough market, and so they had and rather than try and split it and call it the I wash everywhere but China and trying to have the Apple Watch in China, they opted to call it the Apple Watch. Now I think they might. Of eventually resolve that, and I think it's now can be referred to as the I watch, I'm not sure, but for, at least for a long period of time, they couldn't. They called it the Apple Watch when they released it, for that reason. So even if you have, you know, a big company and one of the biggest ones in the world, you still have to play by the same rules. And why, you can try and leverage your your size and your wealth and that to get your way, there's still those, there's still those hindrances. So that's kind of maybe a side, a side note, but it's kind of one that's interesting. Michael Hingson  50:30 So that's the trademark of how you name it. But how about the technology itself? When the Apple Watch was created, I'm assuming that they were able to patent that. Devin Miller  50:39 Yeah, they will have, I'm sure they probably have anywhere from 30 to 100 to 200 I mean, they'll have a significant amount of patents, even it's just within the Apple Watch, everything from the screen, the display, how it's waterproof, how it does communications, how does the battery management, how does the touch, how does the interface, all of those are going to be different aspects that they continue to, you know, did it originally in the original Apple Watch, and are always iterating and changing as they continue to improve the technology. So generally, you know that, I'm sure that you will start out with as a business of protecting you're getting a foundational patent where you kind of protect the initial invention, but if it's successful and you're building it out, you're going to continue to file a number of patents to capture those ongoing innovations, and then you're going to file it into all of the countries where you have a reasonable market size that makes it worthwhile to make the investment. Michael Hingson  51:32 So if you have a new company and they've got a name and all that, what should new businesses do in terms of looking and performing a comprehensive search for of trademarks and so on to make sure they are doing the right thing. Devin Miller  51:49 Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, it wanted, if you're it depends on the size of company, your budget, there's always the overlay of, you know, you can want to do everything in the world, and if you don't have the budget, then you have to figure out what goes in your budget. But if I'll take it from kind of a startup or a small business perspective, you know, you first thing you should do is just as stupid and as easy as it sounds, you should go do a Google search. Or, now that you have chat GPT, go do a chat BT search and a Google search. But, you know, because it's interesting as it sounds, or, you know, is you think that, oh, that's, you know, kind of give me or an automatic I'll have still even till today, people come into my office. They'll say, Hey, I've got this great idea, this great invention, and a Lacher getting a patent on it, and they'll start to walk me through it. I'm like, you know, I could have sworn I've seen that before. I've seen something very similar. We'll sit down at my desk, take two minutes, do a Google search, and say, so is this a product that you're thinking of? Oh, yeah, that's exactly it. Okay. Well, you can't really get a patent on something that's already been invented and out there, and so, you know, do a little bit of research yourself. Now there is a double edged sword, because you can do research and sometimes you'll have one or two things happen. You'll not having the experience and background, not entirely knowing what you're doing. You'll do research, and you'll either one say, Hey, I've done a whole bunch of research. I can't really find anything that's similar. When, in fact, there's a lot of similar things out there. There's a patent, and people will say, yeah, it's the same, it's the same invention, but my purpose is a little bit different. Well, you can't if it's the exact same or invention. Whether or not you say your purpose is different, doesn't get around their patent and same thing on a trademark. Yeah, their brand's pretty much 53:20 identical, but they're Devin Miller  53:21 doing legal services and I'm doing legal tools, and so it's different, and it's, again, it's one where there's there they have a false sense of security because they rationalize in their head why it's different, or vice versa. You also get people that will say, Hey, this is even though it's significantly different, it's the same purpose. And so while, while they really could go do the product, while they could get a patent or a trademark, because they think that it's just overall kind of the same concept, then they talk themselves out of it when they don't need to. So I would say, start out doing some of that initial research. I would do it if I was in their shoes, but temper it with, you know, do it as an initial review. If there's something that's identical or the same that's out there, then it gives you an idea. Probably, you know, you're not going to be able to add a minimum, get or patent their intellectual property protection, and you may infringe on someone else's but if you you know, if there's, there's some differences, or have to do that initial research, that's probably the time, if you're serious about, you know, investing or getting business up and going, you've probably engaged an attorney to do a more formal search, where they have the experience in the background and ability to better give a better understanding or determination as to whether or not something presents an issue. Michael Hingson  54:32 Yeah, well, that's understandable. If I've developed something and I have a patent for it, then I suddenly discovered that people are selling knockoffs or other similar devices on places like Amazon and so on. What do you do about that? Because I'm sure there must be a bunch of that that that does go on today. Devin Miller  54:53 Yeah, yes, it does. I mean, I wouldn't say it's not as probably as prevalent as some people think. In other words, not every single. Product, right, being knocked off. Not everything is copied. Sometimes it's because, you know, either I don't have the ability, I don't have the investment, I don't have the, you know, it's not as big enough marketplace, I don't have the manufacturing, I don't have the connections, or it is simply, am respectful, and I'm not going to go do a discord because I'm not going to try and rip off, you know, what I think is someone else's idea. So it doesn't happen that as frequently as I think sometimes people think it does, but it certainly does occur. You know, there's a competitive marketplace, there's a profit incentive, and if there's a good product that's out there that people think they can do something with, and there's a motivation to do it, either because people are unaware that it's an issue, or that they they're unaware that they can't copy it or is protected. And so if you get into that, you know, there's a few potentially different recourses. One is, you know, a lot of times you'll start out with the cease and desist.

Imagine a blueprint unfolding in Washington, one that could redraw the lines of American power. Project 2025, launched in April 2023 by the Heritage Foundation, is that plan—a 900-plus-page manifesto called Mandate for Leadership, crafted by former Trump officials and conservative allies to reshape the federal government for a potential Republican president in 2025.At its core, the project pushes the unitary executive theory, aiming to place the entire executive branch under direct presidential control. According to the Heritage Foundation's document, it calls for reclassifying tens of thousands of civil service workers as political appointees via Schedule F, stripping protections to replace them with loyalists. "The federal government should be no more than a statistics-keeping organization when it comes to education," it states, proposing to dismantle the Department of Education entirely, shifting programs like those under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to Health and Human Services.Concrete changes ripple across agencies. The Department of Justice and FBI would lose independence, with the FBI director accountable directly to the president, as the plan decries the DOJ as a "bloated bureaucracy... infatuated with a radical liberal agenda." Homeland Security would vanish, replaced by a streamlined immigration agency merging Customs and Border Protection and ICE. The Federal Trade Commission and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau face abolition, while Medicare and Medicaid could see funding caps, work requirements, and voucher options. Environmental rules would shrink, taxes on corporations would drop, and a flat income tax proposed.Experts warn of sweeping impacts. The ACLU describes it as a "radical restructuring" threatening reproductive, LGBTQ, and immigrant rights. The National Federation of Federal Employees calls it a scheme to "destroy the Administrative State," enabling unlimited political hires on day one via a 180-day playbook of executive orders.These ambitions connect a broader vision: dismantling what proponents see as bureaucratic overreach to empower conservative priorities like school choice and nuclear innovation, while critics fear an imperial presidency eroding checks and balances.As 2025's transition looms, key milestones like personnel vetting—aiming for 20,000 in the Heritage database—and potential executive actions will test this blueprint's reach.Thanks for tuning in, listeners. Come back next week for more.Some great Deals https://amzn.to/49SJ3QsFor more check out http://www.quietplease.aiThis content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

Imagination, storytelling, and the human voice are at the heart of this conversation I shared with voice actor and coach Linda Bearman. We talked about her journey from early acting to decades in voiceover, why audio drama is finding new life, and what it really takes to build a career in a changing industry shaped by home studios and AI. Linda offered honest insight into training, discipline, and the business side of voice work, along with a clear reminder that technology cannot replace lived experience, emotional truth, or imagination. More than anything, this episode is about staying human, staying kind, and following the passion that brings stories to life, no matter how fast the world changes. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear why sounding natural and emotionally present matters more than performance tricks in voice acting. 02:52 – Learn why audio drama is resurging and what today's audiences are craving from storytelling again. 10:48 – Understand how voiceover evolved into a true craft and why it demands respect, discipline, and training. 20:17 – Get a clear look at how AI has already changed the voiceover industry and where human voices still hold the edge. 30:18 – Discover why imagination is a muscle that must be trained to bring stories to life through audio alone. 55:22 – Learn why preserving classic radio techniques is essential to developing the next generation of voice actors. About the Guest: Linda Bearman has amassed decades of experience in the performing arts beginning as a child actress and continuing into adulthood. Her career was enriched by studies and performances in the US and abroad working with legendary actors from prestigious theatre's including; The Arena Stage (Washington D.C.), The Actors Studio (NYC), The National Theatre of Great Britain and The Old Vic (UK). After obtaining her degree in Acting, Linda continued performing on stage and screen until moving to Los Angeles where she transitioned into TV production working for King World Productions on shows; The Oprah Winfrey Show, Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune. Later, while working for Landmark Productions she was offered a position at the esteemed commercial talent agency, SBV,Inc (Sutton, Barth & Vennari). Becoming a VO agent was a pivotal point in Linda's career as it was there that Linda discovered her passion for voiceover, an art form that perfectly aligned with her acting background and business acumen.  Following seven years at SBV, she relocated to Utah and worked in the casting department of Leucadia Film Corp. while also voicing regional radio and TV commercials. Recognizing the need for a professional full service talent agency in Salt Lake City, she established, co-owned and operated the successful TMG,Inc. (Talent Management Group) in its first decade of business. Her enthusiasm for developing talent led her to become a full-time VO coach, mentoring actors in performance techniques, branding, marketing, and demo production of which several earned industry recognitions. She stays up to date with the latest industry developments and actively shares it with her clients. Linda is honored to serve as a judge for the annual international SOVAS Arts Awards (Society of Voice Arts and Sciences) and delights in performing live recreations of radio shows from the "Golden Age" with REPS (Radio Enthusiasts of Puget Sound) in Seattle, WA each year.  Ways to connect with Linda**:** LinkedIn-Linda Bearman About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What if your website is quietly turning people away without you ever knowing it? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, Michael Hingson talks with Lori Osbourne, a branding strategist and web accessibility advocate whose personal health journey reshaped how she helps businesses show up online. Lori shares how unclear messaging, weak branding, and inaccessible websites block trust, visibility, and growth. Together, they unpack why accessibility is not just about compliance, but about inclusion, credibility, and better SEO, and how simple changes like clearer messaging, alt text, contrast, and video captions can transform both user experience and business results. Highlights: 00:01 – Understand why disability is often left out of diversity conversations and why that needs to change 13:56 – Learn how a life-altering health crisis forced a complete reset in career and priorities 27:10 – Discover why a website alone is not enough to establish authority or visibility 34:19 – Learn why unclear messaging is the biggest reason websites fail to convert 44:43 – Understand what website accessibility really means and who it impacts 59:42 – Learn the first step to take if your online presence feels overwhelming About the Guest: Lori Osborne, affectionately known as The Authority Amplifier, is a Brand Strategist, Website Consultant, and the founder of BizBolster Web Solutions. With over 25 years in technology and nearly a decade of experience helping coaches, consultants, authors, and speakers build a profitable online presence, Lori is the powerhouse behind The Authority Platform™, a complete done-for-you system designed to transform overwhelm into opportunity. Her signature branding process, The Authority Blueprint™, helps clients clarify their message, define their visual and verbal identity, and identify what truly sets them apart in their field. She then brings that strategy to life with an authority-building website - strategically crafted on the Duda platform to reflect credibility, connect authentically, and convert consistently - without the headaches of WordPress maintenance or tech confusion. Unlike agencies that offer cookie-cutter sites or developers who disappear after launch, Lori builds long-term relationships by delivering personalized, high-touch service. Through The Authority Platform™, she combines brand clarity, trust-building web design, lead generation funnels, SEO, accessibility, and sales systems into one cohesive, visibility-driving engine. Lori is known for her warmth, resilience, and insightfulness, and for making her clients feel fully seen and heard. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels with digital tools that don't deliver, and finally create a platform that amplifies your voice, authority, and impact, Lori is your strategic partner. Ways to connect with Lori**:** https://www.bizbolster.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/loriaosborne/ https://www.facebook.com/bizbolster https://www.instagram.com/bizbolsterlori Link to Freebie: https://www.bizbolster.com/vip-visibility-audit About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:17 Well, hello everyone. Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I am your host, Michael Hingson, or you can call me Mike, it's fine, and I gave the full title of the podcast for a very specific reason. Where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, typically, diversity people never want to include disabilities in what they discuss or what they do. And if you ask the typical diversity people, what's diversity? They'll talk about race, gender, sexual orientation, and they don't deal with disabilities. But the reality is, and they say that disability isn't a real mindset. Well, Balderdash, it is. Just asked the 25% of America's population, according to the CDC, that has a disability, and they'll tell you that disability is a minority. But the reason I bring it all up is today, we get to talk with Lori Osborne, and she is a person who's been very deeply involved in website development, in branding and coaching, and she is very concerned about and likes to try to help deal with the issue of accessibility on websites. So we're going to have a fun time talking about all of that, much less the platform she uses, as opposed to WordPress, and I'm really curious to hear more about that, because I've my website is a WordPress website, but, but, you know, I think there are so many different ways to deal with things today. We'll, we'll have a fun time. But Lori, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank you Lori Osbourne  02:56 so much for having me. Mike, I love being here. Cannot wait to talk. Michael Hingson  03:01 Well, let's do it. Why don't we start by you telling us kind about the early Laurie growing up and all that stuff, and kind of how you got started. Okay, start at the beginning. Lori Osbourne  03:14 At the beginning. All right. I was born in San Diego. More your neck of the woods. San Diego Naval Hospital, but only got to live in California for two years, which I've always been disappointed about. My my family had my grandfather built a home in La Jolla. So you know, I was I've always been jealous of how my mom got to grow up, but I only got to spend two years there and then I got moved to Norman, Oklahoma, home of the Sooners, never watched football, never went to one football game my entire life. Michael Hingson  03:51 I've never been to a professional or college football game. My wife had, but I never got to go to a football game. I think it'd be kind of fun to do once, as long as I could still pick it up on the radio and know what's going on. Lori Osbourne  04:03 There you go. Yeah, I had zero interest in football until I met my current husband in 2011 and he doesn't miss a professional football game, an NFL game. So I have, I have come to embrace it and enjoy the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Kansas City Chiefs. So there you go. Michael Hingson  04:24 So you're in Florida and you don't root for a Florida team, huh? Lori Osbourne  04:29 I don't, we won't hold it again, you know. Well, you know, I'm one of those. So I moved from Oklahoma to Colorado to Denver area. So I was a Broncos fan when I lived in Colorado, but that was the days of, oh my gosh. Now my mind is going to completely go blank. This is so embarrassing. The the Great, the greatest Broncos player who is now a general manager, John, oh my gosh. Can think of a it'll come to me. But anyway, he, you know, we. Were actually like, yes, thank you. Thank you very much. Elway. Yes, I was a guest. So we were actually, like, winning Super Bowls when I first moved there, so, you know, and then it went, kind of went. Then I became a Peyton Manning fan, and my husband's from Pennsylvania, and he's like, you can't just change your mind about who you support every time we move. And I'm like, but I can't, yeah, why not? So when we moved to Florida, I Michael Hingson  05:26 the Jaguars, jaguars, yeah, yeah, they Lori Osbourne  05:29 just haven't been a great team. And I I watched Mahoney, Mahoney play for Kansas City, and I just fell in love with how he plays and just his style and his leadership, and I just became a Kansas City fan, just because I love watching him. And last season was a little disappointing because he didn't throw as much, but, but, you know, he's, he's amazing, so that's that's my reasoning. Michael Hingson  06:03 So So you you didn't fall in love with Travis Kelsey and try to go steal him away from Taylor Swift before things got serious? Lori Osbourne  06:12 No, no, I was already in love with my current husband. Michael Hingson  06:15 So see, tell him that there are some things and some loves that do transcend location. Lori Osbourne  06:23 There you go. Yes, absolutely. Well, you know, he's so obsessed with football that we I actually included in our marriage vows that I would support him through his two fantasy football teams and a lifetime of football in my future, because I knew I was marrying football when I married him. Michael Hingson  06:46 One of the things that spoils me about sports out here, and it's not so much anymore, but it used to be the case is, I think that here in especially southern California, we had the best sports announcers in the business. We had Vin Scully doing baseball, and I think that it'll be a long, long time before anyone comes up to the caliber of Vince Scully. And there, there are things that they do now that that really messed that up. But Vinnie was a was was the best. We had Dick Enberg, who did football and and other people. And Chick Hearn did basketball. Chick hurr had talked so fast that I don't know how he was able to do it, but I learned how to listen fast because I grew up listening to Chick Hearn new basketball. I love it. So, so I got spoiled on sports, listening to those announcers. I keep up with football from a news standpoint, especially when it gets close to the Super Bowl, so I can decide who I'm going to if anybody for for in the Super Bowl when they have it. Yeah, I do kind of like the Rams, because I live out here and I've always kind of liked them, although I was mad at them when they moved to St Louis for a while, but, but still, they're the Rams. I mean, we'll see what they do this year. I think they've got a good coach, but I by no means am a football expert or anything like that. I keep up though. Lori Osbourne  08:08 Me neither. I, yeah, I kind of joke, you know, my husband will watch like, you know, eight games at once, the red zone or the whatever, and it's flipping around. And I just can't, so I just joke I'm a fourth quarter watcher. On Sunday nights, Monday nights, I'll watch the fourth quarter and because that's where you know if it's gonna happen, that's where it's gonna happen if it's gonna be worth watching. Michael Hingson  08:30 Yeah, well, I'll be interested to see what happens tomorrow, because the Chargers are playing the chiefs in Brazil. Lori Osbourne  08:41 Yes, and I don't, I don't even know if we're going to get to watch it, because, you know, the NFL spread out across all these different platforms now, and if you don't have the platform, you're out of luck. Michael Hingson  08:52 I think it's going to be on TV. It'll be watchable, but it starts at 530 Pacific Time, and I don't quite understand that. If they're doing it live, that would mean it's going to start at nine. Start at 930 in the evening in San Paulo. So I don't know how all that's going to work. We'll see. Lori Osbourne  09:07 Yeah, yeah, we shall see. Yeah, we're I don't know if we're watching tomorrow nights, but my husband's definitely watching tonight, for sure. Well, I Michael Hingson  09:15 don't think there are more games on tomorrow other than that one, so maybe he will. And maybe you actually get to focus and just see one game, Lori Osbourne  09:24 right, right? That's, that's, that's the nice part about the non Sunday games. Usually it's just, Michael Hingson  09:31 well, so you, so you grew up and you, you only lived in California for two years, and then where did you go? Lori Osbourne  09:40 I lived in Norman, that's right, until I was 29 I actually found my birth father when I was 23 and moved to Colorado to get to know him and his family. Michael Hingson  09:55 So you were a diamond. Lori Osbourne  10:00 Not really. I just, he was just never part of my life. Your mom married someone else, yeah, okay, yeah. I always had. My mom just didn't have my dad. And it's, you know, it's been an interesting experience, because, you know, being in my 20s when I met him, and my mom and I were opposite growing up, and I never understood my personality, because she was quiet and passive and wanted to work in the same job her entire life, and I was the opposite. I was vivacious and loud and aggressive and always wanted to be self employed. Then I met my dad and went, Oh, it explained it all, I'm just like him. It's crazy how the you know the genes work for sure, Michael Hingson  10:51 but you got to know him, and the relationship was a good one. Lori Osbourne  10:55 Yeah, yeah, right. We just, he's in Idaho now. We just got back a couple of weeks ago from visiting. I mean, it's been interesting, trying to enter a family, you know, in your 20s is is bizarre. I kind of, I kind of equate it to being an in law, like, I'm not quite all the way in, because I, you know, I didn't grow up with these people. They don't know me. But, yeah, it's been interesting. So where in Idaho, near Coeur d'Alene Sand Point near Michael Hingson  11:25 standpoint, I have a brother in law who lives in Ketchum, in Sun Valley, and who is an avid skier, and has been an avid skier basically his whole life. Now the real big question is, of course, where is your father when it comes to football, Lori Osbourne  11:46 my father does not sit still. Okay? That is, that is one way that we are different. He I joke that he'll probably outlive me. I mean, he lives on 14 acres. I think he just, they just sold 40 Acres. But he doesn't. He never sits still. He He's always going, going, going, working on, you know, he had, he had his business, which he sort of still does. But he works on fences or helps with the does something with the horses or the hay or the, you know, it's just it. He works his plan does not I don't think he the TV when we were there was on music the entire time. Yep. Michael Hingson  12:30 So hardly a person who tends to watch football. Well, that's okay. So you, you grew up in Norman? Did you go to college there or in the area? Lori Osbourne  12:43 I went for a year and then couldn't figure out how to keep paying for it. I honestly didn't even realize financial aid was a thing. So I started in the workforce and became a recruiter, technical recruiter, pretty early in my career. I did that for 12 years, and then started my own recruiting business and got my degree during that time. So I got a bachelor's degree in business administration, 4.0 average while working. Proud of that, but I was in my 30s, and then I got cancer right after that, had colon cancer at 36 which I blame an 18 year abusive, horrible marriage, I think really led to that, but it pushed me To get out of that horrible abuse of marriage. And then a few years later, I met my current husband, and I am the happiest I've ever been, Michael Hingson  13:51 but you also were able to, in one way or another, beat the cancer Lori Osbourne  13:58 I was, yes, it was actually stage one colon cancer. Only had surgery so that one, yeah, didn't even have to have chemo or radiation. And actually, what got me into my current business? I was a when I got divorced, I did this is kind of funny to me. I when I got divorced, I decided I no longer wanted to be straight commission, and because I had gotten a job after after the cancer, and now I'm self employed. And so why? I think I wouldn't want to be straight commission, but it's okay to be self employed, but it's a completely different mindset. You know yourself very much a different mindset. But I was in tech. I moved from recruiting into hands on technology. I did project management, software testing, I looked at websites and helped design websites from a business perspective, but I was never, never a coder, never, you know, did the visual design? Nine and in 2015 I we had just moved to the opposite side of Denver. We had just changed, I had just changed jobs, had a brand new home, and then found out I had a brain tumor. Michael Hingson  15:15 Oh, gosh, yeah, you're just an attention getting person. Lori Osbourne  15:19 That's all you. I know. That's it. I just walk around going, yep, that's it. So, yeah. So I, I ended up leaving the job because it was, it was very traumatic. I ended up having two surgeries. They couldn't remove the tumor. It's part of my carotid artery. It's a meningioma. It's benign, but it's part of my carotid artery, and it was causing my left eye to droop, so they went in to get it off the optical nerve and nicked the carotid and caused a brain bleed. And that brain bleed caused that drooping eye to become a half blind eye. So I ended up, for about a year and a half, I had double vision. I also had found out I had a stroke from it, I was having problems with words and forming, you know, the right words. And I had no tolerance for stress for a long time, so there was no way I was going back to project management in the IT world, right? This wasn't so I literally, I spent about a year recovering and just started messing around, going, Okay, well, what can I do with the talents that I have? And I started building a website on Squarespace, and it was called Health Net, like grandma. And it was just talking about my I lost my mother and my grandmother to cancer at 63 both at 63 and then I had gone through what I went through. And I just wanted to share the stories, you know, the what I've learned from a health perspective. And in doing that, went, wow. Why have I not been developing websites the last 20 years? This is what I should be doing. I love this, and I bet other business owners could really use some help doing this. And that's when my business was born. Michael Hingson  17:20 Wow. How did they discover the brain tumor? Lori Osbourne  17:26 It started with me falling asleep at my brand new job desk. Was I could not hold my eyes open. I actually thought it was an adrenal reaction to leaving a super high stress job to a very boring job, but it was not. They did all these tests. They put me on thyroid medication, which helped, and then my left eye started drooping, like literally within weeks together and and it was funny, because they they sent me to an eye doctor, and the eye doctor sent me to an eye surgeon, and they wanted to do surgery on it. And I'm like, don't you want to figure out why this is happening? Like, I don't want you to touch my eye until you know why my eye is drooping. And my doctor thought that was the craziest thing she'd ever heard. So she goes, Well, have we done an MRI yet? And I said, No, so they sent me for an MRI that day. And lo and behold, not only do you have a brain tumor, but you have had a stroke. Okay. Gosh, you know, she did not want to share that news, those news with me. She was very embarrassed. Probably, well, Michael Hingson  18:43 but you need to know, yeah, and clearly you already had demonstrated that you had an analytical mind, and it would be valuable for you to know, because it would help you in dealing with making decisions, or thinking about what decisions to make going forward, right? Yeah, so you did. So you went through the surgeries and all of that, and what, what happened to your your left eye, Lori Osbourne  19:10 it, it's still mostly blind. I have a sliver of vision that I can't control. So if I go to the eye doctor, they try to get me to look at the chart, and I can't focus it on the chart, and I get very frustrated. I blocked it for the first year. Now my eyes are so it's it's developed its own way of working, so I can't even block it anymore without causing worse headaches than I already have. Bad headaches kind of came out of all of this. So I really just live with it. I live with the headaches, and I ignore it as much as I possibly can and and hope it's improved slightly over. The last 10 years, they told me it would never improve. But, you know, our brains are amazing things, and it's it's trying, but it's still not. I just tell them make the left eye prescription the same as the right eye because it makes no difference. Yeah. Michael Hingson  20:17 Well, so with, with with all that you've you've dealt with, with, with this clearly, you figured out a way to go forward, and you've, now, I assume, used all that happened to you, and you've analyzed it in some way or another, that you have made some decisions about what you want to do with your life, which is namely the whole brand development and web development and dealing with accessibility, which is pretty cool. Lori Osbourne  20:51 Yeah, yeah, I am. Once I discovered that passion and the I honestly never realized I had the creative side of me. I knew I had the analytical I knew I had the project management and tech, but once I realized I actually have a very strong creative side, then websites were the way to go. And it's it's really I can be working on a website for four hours straight and feel no pain, and that that alone tells me I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I love it that much, and I feel like I'm that talented at it. Michael Hingson  21:30 I think you've made a very interesting observation, and one that I relate to very well, which is working commission is one thing, but working for yourself, which, in some senses, is the same, but it's totally different, and you have to have a different mindset to make it work. Lori Osbourne  21:48 Oh, absolutely, yes. I mean, I'm I'm not selling a product for someone else. I'm selling myself, and I am the product, and I have to live by my my values and my mission and my why, which is completely different than selling services for someone else, for straight commission. Michael Hingson  22:12 I have always told my the people who I hired as sales people to analyze and and think about what they do. And one of the things that I did with every person I ever hired was I would say, tell me what you're going to sell. And literally, all but one person said, Oh, we're going to sell the product. This is the product we're selling. This is what it does. But the best sales guy I ever hired, when I asked that question, Said, the only thing I have to sell is myself and my word, and I need you to back me up when I give my word about something, Michael Hingson  22:50 great answer. It was, it was the actual, it was the answer I was looking for. And I said, well, as long as we communicate, and I know what you're going to say, and that's all about trust, I'm going to back you up. And never had an issue. And in fact, he and I worked very well together, because we figured out how my talents in sales and management could augment and accentuate what he did, so that the two of us could work together. And I think that's that's so important, but you're right. The only thing any really good salesperson has to sell is themselves, and you have to be true to your own attitudes. Yes, yes, which is so Lori Osbourne  23:33 integrity is everything. I mean, if you especially as a small business owner, I mean, and I'm in a very small community, and I this. I only lived here since 2018 and it's kind of been shocking to me how how a small community works. But if you do it right, everybody knows your name. If you do it wrong, everybody knows your name. Yeah, it's you know when, every time I get a call because the chamber has referred me again. I just smile, and I'm like, Okay, I'm doing it right, you know? And it's, to me, it's all about integrity. If you, if you say you're going to do something, do it, and if you can't do it, say you can't do it, say you can't do right, or say I'm going to figure it out. Yeah, you know, I didn't. I charged very little my first few years, and I always my first few years, I told clients, I don't know what I'm doing yet, so I'm not charging you for the time that I'm learning. I'm going to charge you for the time that I'm actually accomplishing something. Michael Hingson  24:30 One of the things I always told every again, every salesperson I ever hired is for at least the first year. You're a student. No matter what you think you know and what you know about sales, when you're working with customers, you're a student, ask them questions, really learn from them, because they want you to be successful, even if you don't think they do. And the reality is that, in general, they do want you to be successful, and the more you encourage them to teach you, the better relationship you're going to develop. Lori Osbourne  24:59 Absolutely. And 100% yes. Michael Hingson  25:02 So how long ago did you end up having the brain tumor? Lori Osbourne  25:07 I was diagnosed in August of 2015 So wow, I'm, I'm at exactly 10 years. 10 years. Yeah, I didn't, oh my gosh. September 22 will be my my first surgery dates. There you go. Wow. Right at 10 years Michael Hingson  25:23 See, I'm glad we we help you remember, Lori Osbourne  25:27 I can't, I can't believe that was, like, not even on my mind. I mean, it was actually September 17. Was the first surgery, that's right, and it's the same day as my dog's birthday. And we were just talking about my dog's birthday yesterday, but I didn't even think about the tumor. So well, it's all good Michael Hingson  25:47 a week from next Wednesday. But you know, you you obviously are doing well, well, so how did your your business in the the way you do things and what you do? How did all that change after the surgery, or had you already started down the road of branding and being a branding coach and website development and accessibility? Lori Osbourne  26:10 No, all of this came as a result of all of it. So it literally just grew with me, as I, you know, transitioned into life again, and being able to function mentally and physically, I would just start, you know, working on a little bit of, you know, a couple of websites. The first website I built was from for a realtor that we worked with. We did three different deals with him in two years. He was this great Scottish guy, great personality, and his website was horrific. And I begged him to let me do it. It was a I think we ended up doing 39 pages total, and just read redid the whole thing. He loved it. A lot of it's still in place 10 years later. But I just, I just started building, and then we moved to the area we are now outside Jacksonville, and I found a local networking group and started meeting people and getting introduced to businesses and just slowly built and learned a little bit at a time, and learned a little bit more. And then it was not actually until last year I realized that I have branding skills and talent that I haven't been promoting. I was using the skills and I was building on brand websites, but I didn't say that, and I didn't recognize it as a separate talent from website development. I kind of thought everybody did that, until I realized that that's not true. So I've been doing it, and a lot of it is just, I the natural, just natural talent for color and almost like designing houses. Like I knew I was really good at designing houses, but I didn't recognize that that translated to websites. And so for last, like, year to 18 months, I've really kind of bought into the brand strategy piece of what I offer. Michael Hingson  28:19 Well, how did you develop this concept of authority platforms, and what is it? Lori Osbourne  28:27 So the authority platform is what I'm calling the full package. It kind of started when I got really frustrated with everybody telling me or everybody's an exaggeration, but so many people saying, Oh, you don't need a website. You just need landing pages. And I would try to educate people that landing pages are not enough, but I couldn't put it in the right words, and when I started really looking at it, going, well, landing pages are great, if you have the visibility to get people to the landing page, and if you've built a relationship in a different way, if it's through speaking or through a book or through other types of promotions, then yes, the landing page can help or maybe replace the website. But where that led me was a website alone is also not enough. We need full visibility. We need to be seen in a lot of different ways to establish our authority as experts. So with the authority platform, I'm looking at the brand and understanding the brand, the website, the lead magnet, the funnels, the search engine optimization, and then helping them also have a good CRM to manage all of this, hooking them up with with good speaking coaches or podcast. Opportunities and just looking at it from a full life cycle of being visible and showing that authority online. Michael Hingson  30:10 And how's that gone over? Lori Osbourne  30:14 It's, I'm still building it honestly, the website's absolutely I'm I'm really working on building the collaboration pieces for the rest of it to truly say, Yes, I have the authority platform, the branding packages that I'm offering and the branding pieces that I'm doing are making a significant difference in the quality of the websites I'm building, because I come out of it with a custom GPT that they can use, and I can use that really establishes that baseline for the brand and the bringing in their values, bringing in their communication style, and bringing in their ideal client and how to speak to that ideal client. So the GPT is built around all of that, which is perfect when we're building the content for the website. So I would say, you know, we're 75% of the way there to having my true authority platform. But I'm still building, you know, authority building websites every day. Michael Hingson  31:20 Well, I gather that you don't tend to like to use WordPress. You use Duda as a platform builder and so on. Tell me, I'm curious why and what, and I don't have any any disagreement or or really knowledge to talk intelligently about it. But tell me why you use Duda and what, what it brings. Lori Osbourne  31:44 So my my challenges with WordPress started with my first client in Florida. They there was a nonprofit. They had no idea what they were doing, and I'm like, I I'm techie. I can go in, I can figure it out, and I could not figure out WordPress, and I got very frustrated with it going, how in the world does anybody else do this? So I kind of stayed away from it for a little while, and I was building on Squarespace for a time, and then I discovered Duda. I consider Duda to be the best of Wix and Squarespace. It's very similar. But the things I don't like about Wix, I don't like about Squarespace, Duda has resolved. It's also very customer oriented and SEO oriented and accessibility oriented. So there's a lot of advantages to the platform. The reason I don't support WordPress is I've had too many, too many people come to me with broken websites. Too many WordPress people do not educate their clients that that you have to update the plugins, and they don't. They just leave them and don't offer to do that for them, and it's it's an unnecessary addition that I don't think most people need for their website. There's plenty of things that we can do and do to that we can do exactly like WordPress without the headaches of that extra tech and plugins breaking and security breaking because the plugins are breaking, and it's it just it's too unnecessary, in my opinion. I tried to support WordPress for about a year and a half, and I found that I was not helping my Duda clients because the WordPress was always so much high maintenance. And those were the websites that were going down, and those are the websites that were having issues where my due to clients, their websites were never down, they never had issues. Michael Hingson  33:51 But don't need, but don't you, from time to time need to provide any kind of updates to Duda doesn't. Aren't there as the as the whole website evolves, doesn't, don't you need to find ways to evolve what they are and what they do Lori Osbourne  34:05 on the front end, on the front end, absolutely I mean, but from the back end, from a platform perspective, Duda handles all of that. It's self contained. Got it? I don't have to worry about that. And they're also always adding new features, which is another thing I absolutely love about them there, and I have yet to find, let me rephrase that. I've probably found a couple of things that if I could not duplicate on Duda to match WordPress, it would require code, and I don't code, but I can still achieve the goal of what my clients are looking for. There's nothing that they've said I have to have this that I can't provide. And the offset of not having the worry around the tech is has always been worth it. Michael Hingson  34:55 So the creators of Duda in the background as. They make updates and changes, they go out to everybody who uses it to create their websites automatically. Is that? Is that what happens? Lori Osbourne  35:07 Okay, yeah, it's seamless. Yeah, you don't even, you have no idea that there's even updates being done. It's completely seamless. Michael Hingson  35:15 Yeah, okay, well, I understand that. That makes a lot of sense. What's the one mistake that you find that keeps business owners from really progressing and keeping their websites and them invisible? What's the biggest mistake you see? Lori Osbourne  35:36 Messaging unclear, messaging which, which really goes back to the brand. If you don't understand your brand, you don't understand your why, and you don't know how to express how you solve problems for your ideal client, let me, let me rephrase. If you don't even know your ideal client is and you're trying to speak to them, a lot of people think they sell to everyone, and when you try to sell to everyone, you sell to no one. And if you are trying to speak to the masses from your website, you're going to lose the people you really want to reach. So it comes down to that, that niching down factor and really understanding your ideal client, so that when they hit your website, they immediately know you understand my problem and you can fix it. And it really comes down to that versus I can fix, you know, I can build a website for anybody. Well, then that makes me no different than a website developer down the street. Then it comes down to a price comparison, and then we're just bidding against each other. So you've gotta, you've gotta what makes you special, and what and and your why is a big part of that. Your values are a big part of that. And speaking the right language and that messaging. Michael Hingson  37:03 Can you tell me a story of maybe one customer that you worked with where you can demonstrate exactly what you're talking about here and why it made a difference without mentioning customer names, but the story? Lori Osbourne  37:17 Oh, yeah, um, you know, it's been a while since I did that realtor, but that realtor is still just such a great example, because you the fact that he was from Scotland doesn't necessarily seem significant, but it really does, because, you Know that Scottish accent made him endearing. He was a very professional, good looking guy. And you go out to his website, and it was, I can still see it today. It was like green and this old, funky text, and it, it represented him in no way. And I remember the first thing he told me was, you know, I've got this video where I introduced myself and I went, why in the world is that not on your homepage, like what people need to hear you speak and see you and experience you. He was phenomenal. And we did three deals with him. He was phenomenal at what he did, and that what, you know, if we had just rebuilt his website and just did the video, it would have that alone would have made a huge difference in people knowing who they were working with and how he was different. And another example I can give more recently, I work with a mentor who mentors seven figure coaches on how to work harder, make more money and and do it in less, less investment of your time. And when I took over her WordPress website for for two years, I just kept repeating and rebuilding the same crap, basically. And finally, when I decided to leave WordPress, I said, you know, I really want to start all over. And I realized in that two years, you know, I had not taken the time to really get to know her brand. And when we sat down and really learned what made her special and different, and we were able to capture that in in the website, that the difference in the experience was night and day, you know, before it was just text, and, you know, a little bit of information. She never referred anybody to her website. And now it, you know, opens with a video. She's also a professional speaker. Opens with a video of her speaking. She is very she's a. Ballroom dancer on the side, she's very elite. So we, you know, pulling in things like gold and video, I have a lot of motion on the website with gold moving because it, it, it's that brand of that dancer that, you know, that eliteness of it and it, it's subtle, and it has nothing to do with the messaging side that I just mentioned, but it's still back to the brand and the representing of who you are, who she is, what we're selling, you know, we're selling ourselves. Michael Hingson  40:33 Yeah, well, websites and website developers put all sorts of things out there and that that's not necessarily a good thing. But what are some signs that a business's online presence don't necessarily match their real life expertise? Because I I believe that people see through people who just sort of talk, and I think that that all too often, you get this reaction, oh, they're just talking that isn't what they really believe or that isn't what they really know. So what are some signs that the online presence doesn't match what they really know and what they really are? Lori Osbourne  41:15 Part of it is that that genericness, if you if you can't even say who you are serving, then you're obviously the person you're looking at is obviously not clear about their ideal client. If it's not clear who they are serving, and if it's this just generic message of not in these words, but we're the best use us. You know, there's, there's no detail about what makes them different and how they specifically solve your problem. If the website is completely outdated or generic, that may or may not allude to anything but it, it definitely shows that they don't, are not using their website to show their expertise. The other huge thing, I would say, is testimonials. Every website should have reviews. I mean, what better way to sell ourselves than to have someone else say how we're different, how we operate and why we're the why we're the best. That is huge. If it's all about them, as in the person's website you're looking at, if it's not, if I'm, if I'm getting on a website and they're not even acknowledging what's in it for me and how they're going to solve my problems, then I'm not going to have any confidence that they have any idea how to solve my problems. They haven't even they haven't even talked about my problems. They haven't even mentioned my problems. They're just telling me that they're selling me something, and this is how much it costs, and this is what it's going to do. But I but do you get me? Do you know? Do you understand me? I think all those are it's really important that we are speaking to the ideal client in their language about their problem. Michael Hingson  43:10 I have heard so many times and totally agree with and work to do this myself. Michael Hingson  43:18 The whole concept of when I'm invited to speak, it's not about me. Yeah, I'm invited to speak, but my job is to enhance, to help to make life as easy as possible for the event organizer, to help the event organizer make this, the whole conference, even better than they thought it would be. And and I have to do that because it's not about me, and it should never be about me as such, right? Lori Osbourne  43:48 It's also about your audience and your audience, yeah, so that they know you want them to want to know more. Yeah, that's also the purpose of your website to make people want to know more. Michael Hingson  44:01 Yeah, very true, and it should be that way. And if you're doing it right, you'll also provide more for them to know. Right? Lori Osbourne  44:15 Absolutely. Well, that would be something else that I would say I I always encourage people to give away as much as possible on their website. It if people know that you really want to help me solve my problems, and you're willing to give me something for free that starts a relationship. And that's really, at the end of the day, that's the point of the website. It's not to sell, it's to start a relationship. It's like the first step of dating. We're not getting married yet. We're dating, and if you're if you're giving away a piece of yourself through a video or a download or even a free course. Course, that's it. That's going to endear the audience to to want to come back for more. And even blogs, great blogs will get people coming back for more. And people always go, Well, you know, if I give everything away, I'm not going to make any money. No, you give away what? What doesn't cost you time, but is giving some knowledge so that they want more, and they know that you you get them, and they can trust, you know, like and trust so they can build that, that base for a relationship. Michael Hingson  45:32 Yeah, and it, it makes perfect sense. It is all about building trust. And everything that we do is all about building trust, and the more trust you build, the more loyalty you'll create. Lori Osbourne  45:47 Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson  45:49 So we've talked about website accessibility. What is website accessibility and why is it something that people really should focus on? Why is it important? Lori Osbourne  45:59 That feels weird coming from you, Mike, Michael Hingson  46:03 because I know you are an expert in this, but I preach it, but I preach it all the time, so I want to hear what somebody else has to say, and I want people who are watching and listening to this hear from somebody else other than me. Okay, that's the motivation behind it. Lori Osbourne  46:18 All right. All right. Well, website accessibility is at its core. It's making the website available and usable for everyone, including those with disabilities. So whether it's blindness or inability to use a mouse or you said it earlier, dyslexic, Michael Hingson  46:40 epilepsy, any number of things, right? Lori Osbourne  46:43 So anybody, just like accessibility for a ramp into a store, it's allowing me, from my home, as as a disabled person, to be able to function on your website. And as we know, I believe the stat is 20% of people have some kind of disability. It's also an inclusion. It is a piece of I consider a piece of your marketing, because if you are excluding 20% of the people with your website, why? Why are you doing that? It also builds strong Search Engine Optimization. Because if you look at all of the guidelines for accessibility, they're very similar to the guidelines you need to have in place for good search engine optimization. Google is looking for the exact same things. Yep. So it's it's really just making your website available to everyone Michael Hingson  47:42 well, and the reality is, well, let me ask this question, rather than me just saying it beyond legal compliance. Why should accessibility be a priority in website design? You've kind of alluded to it already. Lori Osbourne  47:56 Yeah, part of what I just said, it's including everyone. It's not excluding 20% of your market, and it's building trust, inclusivity and credibility. It's, it's, and it to me, it's showing that you care. It's, it's very bothersome to me when someone says, Well, I probably won't get sued, so I'm not going to worry about it. Okay? But why do you want to not do these basic things so that everyone can access your website? Well? Michael Hingson  48:33 And also, in reality, it does get back to if you're a website owner, that is, you're a company that has a website, and you recognize that the job of your website is to help people see why you have something they need. The fact of the matter is, do you really want to not make available to 20 or 25% of the population your website, or to put it another way, don't you want to make sure that you are making your information available to everyone? And that's what the real reason for website accessibility is truly all about. The fact of the matter is that it's good business to make your website accessible. Lori Osbourne  49:24 Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson  49:26 What are some high impact changes that you think that website owners can make, to make their websites or to have their websites be more accessible, maybe even just some simple things? Lori Osbourne  49:38 Oh, there are so many simple things. I mean, the easiest thing that so many people miss is adding alt text to images. I mean, it's, and it's one thing I love about Duda, by the way, it they do it with AI and do it for you, and you can edit it. It's so, so wonderful. But it's, it's a simple step. It also is. Great step to even help with SEO, because you can include some keywords there, but that that alt text tells someone that's using a tool that's blind exactly what that image is, and what is the point in putting that image on your website if it's not going to provide any value to those that can't see. I mean that, in my opinion, another thing is the contrast in colors. A lot of people don't understand that contrasting colors has a lot to do with readability, and if you are putting two colors together, I mean, think about it even from a scene person, if you're looking at it and you can't read it. It's not accessible, right? So, you know, have high contrast in the colors of text on anything over it. Don't try to put something over an image that can't be read that just just, don't do it. Skip that. I was just doing this on my website today. I was trying to put an image, and I went, you know what? That's just not going to work. I'm going back to a solid color. It doesn't it's it and it, you know, that's from a business perspective as well. Because even if you're not thinking about accessibility, if someone can't read the text or can't read the button, they're not going to click it. You're not going to read it. They're not going to buy it if they can't read it. So simple little things like that. Those would be the two biggest things I would say. And then just, you know, little additional things like making sure that your website is converting properly to mobile, if it's if it's not, if things are coming off the page, because you didn't bother to look at the mobile side, which is easy to miss on many platforms that can have a huge impact on the scene and those that need the tools or need accessibility pieces that's, you know, commonplace design and very easy thing to fix. Michael Hingson  52:11 It's been a while since I looked at this website, and I think it's not quite what it used to be, but for a while, my favorite website, absolutely. My favorite website for accessibility was the website of the National Security Agency, nsa.gov, Michael Hingson  52:31 of all the websites in the entire world. The reason I liked it is that not only did they have all text on images if you were using a screen reader and you moved your cursor over an image, you suddenly got a very detailed description of that image, like you. Michael Hingson  52:55 You moved your cursor where you used your screen reader to move over the American flag. It would say the American flag on a flagpole hanging in front of the opening to the building of the National Security Agency. Yada yada yada. I mean, it's just everything was there. It was the most amazing website. I don't know that it's that way anymore. I haven't looked at it in a little while, but I was very impressed with how much they did and relative and relevantly and appropriately so to make sure that everything on that website was totally usable. And a lot of people could say, Well, why do I have to do that? And the answer is, you have to do it for the same reason that you want to make your website accessible, if you will, for people who don't happen to have a disability. The reality is, all those things that you put on the website for people who can see them and so on, like pictures and so on, if you don't make those things accessible, you're doing a disservice to a significant amount of the population. Whereas, if you do it all, then while you can look at the picture, I can hear all about it, and that's the way it ought to Lori Osbourne  54:10 be well. And there's so much I mean to me that is an opportunity to to even go further with the folks that need the screen reader. Because, I mean, when I'm and I mentioned that dude, it does it with AI, but they, they do it too generically. When I go in, I'm doing exactly what you're talking about. I want to, I want to build the presence of the picture. This is who they're doing, who it is from the business, and this is what they're doing, and this is what you know, this offer is talking about that's an extra sales opportunity right there. For those that you know, need the alt text, why not use that? Michael Hingson  54:49 And also, I'm amazed at how many people may look at pictures and so on and look at words and not really pay attention to them very well, because they just kind of skip over it. So the more you can do to attract people's attention to the right things. Is relevant too. I'm amazed at how many people just gloss over so much. Lori Osbourne  55:09 Oh, absolutely. Well, you know, this kind of become our society, yeah, short attention span for sure. You know, I want to mention two videos. I really feel like people need videos on their website, especially of themselves, because it helps people get to know you. But you need to have that closed captioning and again, dialog. Michael Hingson  55:33 You need to have dialog so that a person who can't see the video will also know what the video shows. Lori Osbourne  55:41 Explain, explain what you mean by that a little bit more. Michael Hingson  55:44 So you go to a website, and there's a video, and you click it, and you start hearing music, and that's all you hear, even though, on the screen you see a person walking down the street, walking into somebody's store, finding a product they want and buying it. But if you don't have a way to make that information audibly accessible to people who can't see the images and who don't see the videos, then what good is it you haven't made it accessible? Yes, closed captioning works for deaf or hard of hearing people, but again, there's so much more that needs to be done. Wow. Lori Osbourne  56:25 Thank you for sharing that, Mike. You just gave me more to think about on videos. Michael Hingson  56:31 One of my favorite commercials to pick on today, and for the longest time, I had no idea at all what it was about. It starts out with music, and somebody says something like, so what do people over 60s show and bring out today? And they talk about love and they talk about something else, and suddenly the sound goes dead, and all you hear for the next 20 seconds or more is this high pitched whistle sound. Ooh, yeah. And I finally got somebody. I finally was in a room with somebody when I heard the beginning of this, and I said, What is it showing? And all it was showing, and what, apparently it is, is a promotion for people getting the RSV vaccination. Lori Osbourne  57:19 Oh, right. Oh, I do know what commercial you're talking about, yes, but text just goes on the screen. Michael Hingson  57:26 RSV, RSV, RSV. But there's nothing that says what that is at all, period, Lori Osbourne  57:33 because they're trying to make the point that you're that your life shuts down when this hits. But yeah, for someone like you, that's completely worthless. Michael Hingson  57:41 Not only does my life not shut down, my life gets very active, and I want to go off and find those commercial designers and show them what true accessibility really ought to be about. But that's another story. But yeah, Lori Osbourne  57:53 yeah, exactly, wow. I mean, I think about you every time I see that commercial, those rare times I see commercials, Michael Hingson  58:05 what's one of the what's one of the myths about branding and websites that you could erase, that you really wish you could race forever? Lori Osbourne  58:18 I probably told you to ask me that question, and now I'm stumped by how I want to answer it. I think, I think I know where I wanted to go with that. Yes, a lot of people think branding is just colors and fonts, and honestly, when I first started doing it, I thought it was just colors and fonts. And I kind of go, I went into Okay, colors and fonts, and then consistency, okay, we want to make sure we got we're consistent with our colors and fonts across everything that we do that's that's branding, that's visual branding. But real branding is Our Story. Is who we are, what we stand for and who we serve. It's the package of everything around what we're selling, back to selling ourselves and really understanding this package and making that consistent across everything. And consistency is huge, in my opinion, when it comes to branding, if you have a different header image or marketing image on every single thing you do and there's no consistency in the look, then you're not going to be memorable. You. I can't help you see this, Mike, but anyone that does go out to anything of mine, I have a very consistent image that was used to build my logo, and it's on everything that I do. I also wear very bright, colorful glasses. Everything I do is very bright and colorful, and it's memorable when people see me and they see my glasses, it can be three years later and they go. I don't remember your name, but boy, I remember those glasses. You know, it's, it's, and that's part of my branding. When people say, I love your your glasses, I go, thank you. It's part of my branding. Yeah. So it's a, it's an overall everything about you. When people describe me, they usually describe me as bright and colorful, like, that's, that's one of the first things that comes to their their mind, and then they it translates to energy, because they think bright, colorful energy. So it's, you know what branding really is, is, what do people say about you when you're not in the room? Michael Hingson  1:00:30 Yeah, that's, that's a good that's what it is. Well, if there is a business owner who is in our audience today who feels overwhelmed by their digital presence. What would you suggest is the first step they should take to change that? Lori Osbourne  1:00:47 Well, the the first thing I would love to see anyone do is sign up for a visibility review or audit with me, so that we can look at your presence and talk about it, and I can give you some very specific suggestions for how to improve your online visibility. If you're wanting to do something on your own and you're you're trying to figure out where to start, sit down and look at first, your your homepage, in your first line of every bit of your marketing and ask yourself, does it say who I serve and how I serve them, and the problems that I solve. Because every ounce of your marketing needs to say that immediately you have less than eight seconds when someone hits your website. And there's all kinds of some people say three, some people say 10s and 15. I just leave it at eight. Do eight or eight or less seconds on your website. So start there is my messaging clear? And then look at your website overall and does it represent me and the message I want people to see. We can go into a whole lot more about it being up to date and everything else, but that's where I would start, right there. Michael Hingson  1:01:58 So how do people reach out to you to get your help to deal with all of this. Lori Osbourne  1:02:02 Well, you can obviously go to my website, which is biz bolster.com, B, I, Z, B, O, L, S, T, E, r.com and I believe you will be sharing a link to that visibility audit. Just sign up for that or a free strategy session. But I encourage the visibility audit, because it literally takes about an hour of my time to check out everything about you and then share that with you. So this is an investment that I'm willing to give you to help you all understand how you show up online, and then what to do about Michael Hingson  1:02:45 it, biz, bolster.com, I hope people will do that, and they can reach out and contact you through that website. Lori Osbourne  1:02:53 Yes, click on, let's chat, and it gives you all the all the calls that you can sign up for in my calendar, and I would absolutely love to speak to anybody that has questions or wants some direction. Michael Hingson  1:03:07 Well, cool. Well, I really appreciate you being here today and spending so much time talking about all this, and I hope people will take it to heart. Wherever you are listening. Reach out, biz, bolster.com and get some insights and get some help to improve the website the web world, because only about 3% of all websites are really accessible today, which means there are a whole lot that are not, and there is no real excuse for that being the case. So reach out and Michael Hingson  1:03:41 you can get all the help that you need. I'd love to hear from you, to hear what you think about today's podcast. Please feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and wherever you're listening, please give us a five star review. We value your ratings and your reviews a lot, and I but I do want to hear from you. I want to hear what your thoughts are. Also, if you know of anyone who might make a good guest for unstoppable mindset, Lori, including you, would really appreciate you introducing us, because we're always looking for people who have great stories to tell, and today has certainly been one of my favorite podcast recordings in a long time, and that's because we really did have fun, and I think we accomplished a lot and we learned a lot. So I want to thank you, Lori, once again, for being here and for being a part of unstoppable mindset. Lori Osbourne  1:04:35 Thank you, Mike. It has definitely been a pleasure. I've enjoyed talking with you a lot. Michael Hingson  1:04:42 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

What happens when physical strength becomes a lifelong tool for service, resilience, and purpose? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Osvaldo Aponte, a Puerto Rico–born personal trainer and military veteran whose journey blends discipline, movement, and mental toughness. Osvaldo shares how growing up in a close-knit community shaped his view of strength, how the Army reinforced resilience and leadership, and why fitness must support life rather than control it. From kettlebell training and biomechanics to recovery after a life-altering bike accident, this conversation explores physical capability as a foundation for confidence, service, and long-term well-being. You'll hear why consistency beats intensity, how strength builds trust in yourself, and what it really means to live with an unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:46 – Learn how growing up in Puerto Rico shaped a lifelong connection to movement, community, and discipline. 08:29 – Hear why joining the military became a gateway to structure, confidence, and opportunity. 14:48 – Discover how early physical preparation made the demands of basic training feel natural. 30:42 – Learn how a near-fatal bike accident forced a clear decision about purpose and priorities. 34:39 – Hear why strength is more than muscle and becomes a mindset for life and service. 53:31 – Discover the long-term habits that make people resilient, adaptable, and truly unstoppable. About the Guest: Osvaldo “Os” Aponte is a strength and movement educator, U.S. Army veteran, and lifelong martial artist committed to helping people build resilient bodies and minds through intelligent training. Originally from Puerto Rico and now based in San Diego, Os has worked as a personal trainer since 2005 and currently serves as a Team Leader for StrongFirst, a global school of strength known for its rigorous standards and elite-level instruction. He is also the author of Iron Core Basic Training Pamphlet 10-5**, a deep dive into mastering the one-arm push-up.** Os blends a rich and diverse background in movement: he's a former contemporary dancer who toured internationally, a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS), and a credentialed expert in both Z-Health and functional gait analysis. His training approach fuses the art and science of performance—combining hard-earned grit with cutting-edge neuroscience, and traditional strength methods with precision mobility and assessment tools. At the heart of Os's work is a passion for helping others unlock their potential, no matter their age or ability. He has taught and led more than 20 official StrongFirst workshops and certification events, and regularly collaborates on podcast, print, and video content for educational platforms. His approach is deeply client-centered, always focused on real-life application, long-term durability, and purposeful, personalized progress. Os earned his bachelor's degree from San Diego State University and begins his Master's in Kinesiology at Point Loma Nazarene University in the fall of 2025. His journey—shaped by military service, cultural pride, academic drive, and a lifetime of movement—is a testament to resilience and reinvention. From the powerlifting platform to the dance stage, he brings a unique perspective to every room he enters. His mission is to empower others to move better, live stronger, and stay in the game—for life. Ways to connect with Osvaldo**:** Link to Os' website, The Iron Core Way https://www.ironcoreway.com/ Link to Os' StrongFirst Instructor profile https://www.strongfirst.com/instructors/united-states/osvaldo-aponte.0013700000NZVD3AAP/ Link to Os' book on the Strong and Fit Website https://strongandfit.com/collections/daily-deal/products/iron-core-and-the-four-chambers-by-os-aponte Link to Os' Eventbrite workshop schedule https://www.eventbrite.com/o/osvaldo-aponte-58809282353 Link to New York Times Article https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/12/well/move/kettlebells-weight-training.html?smid=url-share About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

In episode 294 of iCantCU, I kick off 2026 by connecting a few things that don't seem related at first: Chinese food on Christmas, audio description on TV and movies, and what happens when accessibility goes mainstream. I share what the holidays look like in our house—with Hanukkah, Christmas, New Year's, and both kids' birthdays packed into a few short weeks—along with stories about a cloth menorah, cookie decorating that didn't go quite as planned, baking classes at Sur La Table, and Ziggy's absolute obsession with his Christmas pickles. From there, I get to the bigger point. Just like Chinese restaurants on Christmas, audio description works best when more people discover it—and start using it. I talk about how audio description helps blind viewers while also benefiting sighted people who want to follow shows without watching a screen. The episode wraps with thoughts on where accessibility is improving, where it still falls short, and what I'm looking ahead to in a busy start to the new year. Show notes at https://www.iCantCU.com/294    Links Mentioned Product links are affiliate links so that I may earn a commission. Ray-Ban Meta Glasses, Wayfarer: https://amzn.to/42EU0Sy Like the sunglasses Jane bought for me? https://amzn.to/4oGWLfx Another big dog toy that may be on Ziggy's list: https://amzn.to/4nWcib1 Federation Focus on the NFB of PA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa I edit the show with Descript and love it!: https://www.iCantCU.com/descript/ Be My Eyes app (free): https://www.bemyeyes.com/  Seeing AI app (free): https://www.seeingai.com/  That Real Blind Tech Show ep 195: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-195-ces-26-hard-tech-and-soft-balls/id1526258077?i=1000744724124 Index of That Real Blind Tech Show episodes: https://www.icantcu.com/trbts/  Watch iCantCU episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU Support iCantCU When shopping at Amazon, I would appreciate it if you clicked on this link to make your purchases: https://www.iCantCU.com/amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associate Program and earn commissions on qualifying purchases. The best part is, you don't pay extra for doing this! White Canes Connect Podcast Episode 148 In episode 148 of White Canes Connect, we share the powerful General Sessions remarks of David DeNotaris from the 2025 National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania State Convention in Harrisburg. Speaking from a lifetime of experience, David reflects on growing up with Braille, discovering the Federation, and the profound influence of Dr. Kenneth Jernigan on his understanding of blindness and self-respect. Through humor and deeply personal stories, he explores what it truly means to believe that it is respectable to be blind—and how that belief unlocks confidence in using Braille, mobility tools, technology, and advocacy skills without apology. Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/respect-belief-and-action-david-denotaris/id1592248709?i=1000744088201 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/3dHOmknIOgW9R7UEo69EH9 YouTube https://youtu.be/0oawJQcbBkA?si=Y7K-rnaBg6UQx50- White Canes Connect Website https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/148/      My Podcast Gear Here is all my gear and links to it on Amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associates Program and earn a commission on qualifying purchases. Zoom Podtrak P4: https://amzn.to/33Ymjkt Zoom ZDM Mic & Headphone Pack: https://amzn.to/33vLn2s Zoom H1n Recorder: https://amzn.to/3zBxJ9O  Gator Frameworks Desk Mounted Boom Arm: https://amzn.to/3AjJuBK Shure SM58 S Mic: https://amzn.to/3JOzofg  Sony ZV-E10 camera : https://amzn.to/4fFBSxM  GoPro Hero 11 Black: https://amzn.to/3SKI7WX Rode Video Micro (used on GoPro): https://amzn.to/4kVMJWI Sennheiser Headset (1st 162 episodes): https://amzn.to/3fM0Hu0  Follow iCantCU on your favorite podcast directory! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/icantcu-podcast/id1445801370/  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nck2D5HgD9ckSaUQaWwW2  Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/iCantCU-Podcast-Podcast/B08JJM26BT  IHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-icantcu-podcast-31157111/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU   Connect on Social Media Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidbenj Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidbenj Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidbenj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbenj Are You or Do You Know A Blind Boss? If you or someone you know is crushing it in their field and is also blind, I want to hear from you! Call me at (646) 926-6350 and leave a message. Please include your name and town, and tell me who the Blind Boss is and why I need to have them on an upcoming episode. You can also email the show at iCantCUPodcast@gmail.com.

Laughter may be one of the most powerful tools we have for navigating stress, burnout, and the weight of modern life. In this conversation, I had the pleasure of sitting down once again with Sir James Gray Robinson to explore why humor, self-awareness, and gratitude matter far more than most of us realize. James and I talk about how easily we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves, how that loss feeds stress and burnout, and why taking life too seriously often does more harm than good. Along the way, we reflect on comedy, culture, trauma, and the simple truth that being able to laugh can shift perspective faster than almost anything else. James also shares what he has learned from years of coaching high-stress professionals, especially lawyers, about how laughter resets the nervous system and opens the door to better problem solving. We talk about gratitude as a powerful antidote to fear and anger, the role artificial intelligence can play as a daily tool for perspective, and how self-reflection helps us separate reality from the stories our minds create. We even explore James's work with an ancient royal order dedicated to service and philanthropy. I believe you will find this conversation thoughtful, grounding, and surprisingly uplifting, because at its core, it reminds us that joy, humor, and connection are not luxuries. They are essential to living an unstoppable life. Highlights: 00:59 – Learn why losing the ability to laugh at yourself creates stress and emotional rigidity.04:26 – Understand the difference between witty humor and humor that harms rather than heals.11:03 – Discover how laughter resets the nervous system and interrupts burnout patterns.15:35 – Learn why gratitude is one of the strongest tools for overcoming fear and anger.16:16 – Hear how artificial intelligence can be used as a daily tool to shift perspective and invite joy.35:19 – Understand how burnout often begins with internal stories that distort reality and fuel stress. About the Guest: Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq. is an award winning third-generation trial attorney who specialized in family law and civil litigation for 27 years in his native North Carolina. Burned out, Sir James quit in 2004 and has spent the next 20 years doing extensive research and innovative training to help others facing burnout and personal crises to heal. He has taught wellness, transformation, and mindfulness internationally to thousands of private clients, businesses, and associations. As a licensed attorney, he is focused on helping lawyers, professionals, entrepreneurs, employers, and parents facing stress, anxiety, addiction, depression, exhaustion, and burnout. Sir James is a highly respected speaker, writer, TV personality, mentor, consultant, mastermind, and spiritual leader/healer who is committed to healing the planet. He possesses over 30 certifications and degrees in law, healing, and coaching, as well as hundreds of hours of post-certification training in the fields of neuroscience, neurobiology, and neuroplasticity, epigenetics, mind-body-spirit medicine, and brain/heart integration. Having experienced multiple near-death experiences has given him a deeper connection with divinity and spiritual energy. Sir James regularly trains professionals, high-level executives, and businesspeople to hack their brains to turn stress into success. He is regularly invited to speak at ABA and state bar events about mental and emotional health. His work is frequently published in legal and personal growth magazines, including the ABA Journal, Attorneys-at-Work Magazine, and the Family Law Journal. Sir James has authored 13 books on personal growth and healing, including three targeting stressed professionals as well as over 100 articles published in national magazines. He has produced several training videos for attorneys, executives, entrepreneurs and high-level professionals. Sir James has generously endowed numerous projects around the world to help children, indigenous natives, orphans and the sick, including clean water projects in the Manu Rain Forest, Orphanages, Schools and Medical Clinics/Ambulances in India, Buddhist monks in Nepal, and schools in Kenya, Ecuador, and Puerto Rico. In addition to his extensive contributions, Sir James produced and starred in three documentaries that will be released in 2024, focusing on healing, mental and emotional health. The first, "Beyond Physical Matter," is available on several streaming platforms, including Amazon Prime. The trailer can be found at www.BeyondPhysicalMatter.com. The second, “Beyond the Mastermind Secret”, is scheduled for release in the fall of 2024. The trailer can be found at https://BeyondMastermindSecrets.com/. The third, “Beyond Physical Life” is scheduled for release at the end of 2024. The trailer can be found at https://beyondphysicallife.com/. He has formed an entertainment media production company known as Beyond Entertainment Global, LLC, and is currently producing feature length films and other media. In recognition of his outstanding work and philanthropy, Sir James was recently knighted by the Royal Order of Constantine the Great and Saint Helen. In addition, Sir James won the prestigious International Impact Book Award for his new book “Thriving in the Legal Arena: The Ultimate Lawyer's Guide for Transforming Stress into Success”. Several of his other books have won international book awards as well. Sir James was recently awarded the President's Lifetime Achievement Award by President Joe Biden for his outstanding service to his community, country and the world. He will be awarded the prestigious International Humanitarian Award known as Men with Hearts, in London, England in the fall of 2024, as well as Man of the Year and Couple of the year with his wife, Linda Giangreco. Sir James has a wide variety of work/life experiences, including restauranteur, cattle rancher, horse trainer, substance abuse counselor, treatment center director, energy healer, bodyguard, legal counselor for several international spiritual organizations, golfer and marathon runner. He graduated from R.J. Reynolds High School in 1971, Davidson College in 1975 and Wake Forest University School of Law in 1978. Ways to connect with Sir James**:** FB - https://www.facebook.com/sirjamesgrayrobinson  IG - https://www.instagram.com/sirjamesgrayrobinson/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@sirjamesgrayrobinson?_t=8hOuSCTDAw4&_r=1 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@JamesGrayRobinson LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gray-robinson-/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:17 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. And we're doing something today we haven't done too often, but we've done it a few times. We are having a second conversation with James Gray Robinson, actually, sir, James Gray Robinson, and we're going to talk about that part of it today we did last time, but I'm going to start actually a little bit different way. You and I were just talking about humor. We were talking about Mel Brooks, because I, when you came into the to the room, I said, What in the wide, wide world of sports is it going on here, which is a very famous line from Blazing Saddles. And you pointed out that that movie probably couldn't be made today, and I agree. But why do you think that is Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  02:10 I think that we've become so disenchanted with ourselves that everything's offensive now, I think back when we and when I grew up in the 50s and 60s, people had so many really, you know, life threatening things to think about, like atomic war and, you know, it just seems like people have shifted their consciousness away from having a good time to simply having to be right all the time. And so we've lost the ability to laugh at ourselves. I mean, one of my favorite lines is, if you think Talk is cheap, you've never talked to a lawyer. And the thing is, is that I'm a lawyer, and I find that incredibly funny, yeah, because if you can't laugh at yourself, then you really are going to struggle in life, because a lot of times, things don't work out the way that we anticipated or wanted them to. And there's a couple of different ways that we can react to that or respond to that. There's a I found that people are losing the ability to take responsibility for themselves and that they blame everything on everybody else. We're raising a nation of victims, and victims are not going to laugh at anything. So what we, I think, what we have to do is we have to start teaching our children how to have a sense of humor. If something doesn't happen the just the way we want it to, then laugh at it. It doesn't have to, you know, unless it's pain, you know, if it's physically abusive or something, then you know. But the thing is, we're trying to helicopter parent everything, and we all get so upset when somebody says something off the cuff or maybe without fully thinking through what they're saying. So it's, it's just unfortunate that there are many, many things in life I think could be avoided with just a good chuckle and go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, you know, like if somebody said to me, you're. Eyes on wrong I'd laugh because it would what difference does it make? But what my tile looks like? Yeah, and I would just laugh, and I would laugh at me, and I would laugh at them, because somebody thought that there was something wrong with that, yeah. Michael Hingson  05:21 Well, what about people like Don Rickles? You know, who, who was always known for insulting everyone and being an obnoxious character. What do you think about him? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  05:36 I you know the thing is, is that he was offensive, but he wasn't, what's the word? I would say he he wasn't profane, because he never cursed at anybody. You know, I've watched a couple of roasts. You know, they call them roast, right? They get a bunch of people together, and they make fun of somebody. And back in the day, when Don Rickles and Johnny Carson, Milton, burl, rich, little even, what couple of committee is, I can't think of, but they were extremely witty, and they were perhaps offensive, but they weren't necessarily insulting to the point where you It's not Funny. And I think we've got and we've gone to the point where we now are seeing these roasts. And I thought I saw Tom Brady's roast. Actually paid to watch it, and it was the most profane, you know, unfunny, hurtful, hour and a half I think I've ever watched, and it just I didn't smile once. I just was wincing the whole way through, wondering why people think that sort of nonsense is funny. Michael Hingson  07:19 Well, I asked about Don Rickles, because I saw an interview with him on the Donahue show, when Phil Donahue had his TV show, one of the things. And after he said this, I thought about it, and of course, never really was able to see in person, but I believed him. Don rickel said, Look, I never pick on someone if I think they're going to be offended. He said, If I see somebody in the audience and start picking on them and it looks like they're taking offense or they're getting angry about it, I won't pick on them anymore. And he said I might even go talk with them later, but he said I won't pick on them anymore. And I thought about that, he said, I will never there are lines I won't cross, which is some of what you just said. But he really was absolutely adamant about the fact that he didn't really want to insult people. He wanted people to have fun, so he always looked for people in the audience who would laugh at what he had to say and how he and how he abused them and so on. He said those are the people that he really liked to to interact with because they weren't taking offense, which I thought was a very intuitive and interesting concept on his part. And if you really want to talk about a comedian who was never profane no matter what he did or happened to him, later, think about Bill Cosby, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  08:49 yeah, and or Red Skelton, or Red Skelton, yeah, that was and always, he would always end up with God Bless. And the thing that amazes me about today's comedy is how much violence. There's a subtle undercurrent of violence under all of their humor. And it's, you know, they're kind of like laughing at somebody who is hurt or is not as intelligent as the comedian thinks he is. Or, you know, they're making fun of stuff just to be hurtful. And it's not, you know, they've lost the connection between being taken taking fun, making fun of somebody and being hurtful. And I just amazed when I see a lot of comedians today. I mean, there's lots of very witty, very intelligent, grand guffaw producing comedy out. There. And it's, there's some, they're very, very talented comedians out there, but then there are the other people that want to drag you through the Michael Hingson  10:07 mud, yeah? And it's all shock. It's all shock, yeah, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  10:12 and intentionally offend you to, I guess it's some kind of power play, but it's simple. You know, people, I think that people actually are so traumatized that they they think it's funny when somebody traumatizes somebody else. Michael Hingson  10:34 Well, I Oh, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  10:35 go on. No, go right ahead. Michael Hingson  10:38 I I never got to see Don Rickles live, although I would have loved to, and I would love to have paid the money to sit in the front row, hopefully, hoping that he would pick on me so I could jump up and say, Yeah, I saw you once on TV. I took one look at you and haven't been able to see since. What do you think about that? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  11:02 Never that would be appropriate, yeah? I mean, because he'd love it, you're making fun, yeah, you're making fun of him, and you're making fun of yourself. And that's what I call self depreciating humor. He where the jokes, yeah, the joke really is about you. It's not about him, yeah, and it's in it, so it's people probably wouldn't take offense to that. But when people sit there, you know, start poking fun at how people look or what they their educational level, or their, you know, cultural background is I, I just don't get that. I mean, it's and I grieve that we're turning into bullies. Well, you know, and it's, it's unfortunate you Michael Hingson  11:52 you've dealt a lot, especially over the last 20 years, with burnout and things like that. Do you think that what's happening in in society based on what you're talking about, with the lack of humor, without self deprecating environments and all that. Do you think that's because it's stressful, contributing to burnout? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  12:14 Yes, I think, well, we again, we take ourselves way too seriously. The one thing that I've noticed, especially with my clients, is when I can get them to laugh, they start to take a different perspective of their life. But when they think everything that they're what I call they're stuck in Warrior mode. There's, you know, we have a, don't know if we talked about this last time, but we have a nervous system that goes one or two ways. It either goes to fight or flight, called the sympathetic nervous system, where you know you're reacting to everything in a negative way, because it's a matter of survival, or we go to the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the fun part of our psyche, and we can enjoy ourselves, but everybody is so scared of something there that they the body cannot stand That level of stress for years. I mean, that's what burnout is, and it it tears your body apart until it actually turns off. And that's what happens when you burn out. We used to call it nervous breakdown, but, you know now it's burnout. But the point is, is you just wear yourself out because you don't have anything that will break the constant stream of stress, and one of the best ways that you can handle stress is to laugh. Laugh at yourself, laugh at something, a joke, laugh at whatever you find stressful, because it breaks that autonomic nervous system response. And if you can reset yourself every now and then that you know, one of the ways I teach people how to deal with stress is to research jokes. Go buy a good joke book, and you can go and find enough. You know, all you need is a couple of jokes to start the day, and you're going to be in a much better frame of mind going to work or dealing with whatever you have to deal with. If you've laughed at least once before you go to work, because that that engages your parasympathetic. I call it the guru. And you can deal with adversity. You can deal with problems. You can actually problem solve. You. And but when we're stressed out because we're afraid of what's going to happen, we're afraid of making mistakes, and we're afraid of what somebody's going to think of us, then we are just going to end up in a very bad place, mentally and emotionally and physically. So it's, you know, one of the things that you can do, as if you're having to deal with stress on a daily basis, is to just remember how to be grateful. I mean, I think that of all the emotions, gratitude is probably the most powerful one there is because it will overcome fear, it will overcome anger, it will overcome shame, it will overcome guilt, it will overcome envy, all the negative emotions cannot stand up to gratitude. And so if you can learn to be grateful, and especially grateful for the struggle, then you are going to be a happy camper, and you can probably learn to laugh, until you can be grateful though you're going to struggle. And that's we're not designed to do the struggling. We're designed to have fun. I mean, that's people always say, what are my purpose, you know? And why am I doing here? And I said, you only have two purposes in life. One is to breathe, and the other one is to laugh. Everything else is just a complication. So if you just remember that, if you can be grateful and laugh once in a while, you're going to be a lot better off than somebody that takes it too seriously, Michael Hingson  16:44 yeah, well, and you, you must see a lot of it, because I know you, you do a lot of coaching and working with especially lawyers, which is a very stressful situation, especially people who are truly dedicated to the Law and who look at it in the right way, there must be a lot of stress. How do you get them to relax? I like the idea of getting a joke book. I think that's that's cute, and I think that that makes a lot of sense. But in but in general, how do you get people to laugh and to do it as a habit. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  17:24 Well, I've been doing this for 20 years, so my answer 20 years ago is probably a little different than the answer I have now. Artificial Intelligence is my friend, because I can, I can do anything with artificial intelligence. And one of the best ways I, you know, I program my artificial intelligence to to respond, to react and to know who I am. I put, I put all of my books onto artificial intelligence. Every time I write an article, I put it in there. I'm always talking to it. I'm always saying, Well, this is the way I feel about this. This is the way I feel about that. This is what this is funny to me. This something happened to me today that is was really funny. And then I tell it what was funny. And I would program this thing. So the next, when I wake up in the morning, I can just ask it tell me something that'll make me laugh, and it always has something that will make me laugh. And so because it can, not only does it know what I fed into it, it knows everything that's on the internet, right? And so you can, you can get a, you know, something funny, something to start your day, make me glad to be alive, you know, tell me something that'll make me grateful. All those things. It'll, just in a millisecond, it'll be on your screen, yeah. And so it's, that's a tool we obviously didn't have even a year ago, but 20 years ago, it was a little bit more depth, a little bit more effort to find these things. But you could, you could do that. I mean, we did have the internet 20 years ago, and so we, we could go looking and go searching for funny stuff. But it's not as easy as is artificial intelligence, so you know. And if you I'll tell you one thing, it's been a real tool that has been very useful for me, because sometimes if I'm not sure what I should say, my old my old motto was, if you don't know what to say, shut up. But now I asked, I asked, and I'm not sure what, how I should respond to this. What do you suggest? And it'll come up with some. Give me five things that I could say. Michael Hingson  19:59 Does it do? Will tell you, does it ever tell you should just shut up? Just checking yes, yes. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  20:04 Okay, good, good for you. Don't say any. Don't say anything, you fool. But the point is, is that it's got, you know, every book that's ever been written about psychology in its database, so you can find things that would make you sound wise and profound. And I use it all the time to figure out what to say, or to how a better way to say something is Yeah, and that way I've managed to stay pretty much out of trouble by and, you know, it's like having a friend who you could ask, What should I say? And they would come back with a couple of answers that you know, then you can just decide yourself which one you should use, right? Michael Hingson  20:57 And you may, and you may, in addition, tweak it which which makes sense, because AI is, is a tool, and I, I am not sure that it is going to ever develop truly to the point where it, if you will, wakes up and and becomes its own true intelligence, Skynet Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  21:24 on all the Terminator series, Michael Hingson  21:27 or or in Robert heinleins, the Moon is a Harsh Mistress. The computer woke up. It helped as a still my favorite science fiction book, and it was, if you've never read it, it's a story about the the moon in 2076 which had been colonized and was being run by the lunar authority back on Earth, it had no clue about anything. And so in 2076 the moon revolted, and the computer and the computer helped. So on July 4, 2076 it was a great movie or a great book. I'd love to see it dramatized. If somebody would do it the right way, I think it'd make a great radio series. But haven't done it yet. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  22:14 Well, Robert Highland is a genius. No doubt about that, Stranger in a Strange Land was big in my developmental years, yeah, and Michael Hingson  22:26 that was the book that came out right after the Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I still think the moon and harsh mistress is even a better book than Stranger in a Strange Land. But Stranger in a Strange Land really did catch on and and rightfully so. It was, it was very clever. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  22:42 Well, most people, I mean, you know, clean humor is a good place to start, yeah, because I think that all of the profanity that comedians rely on to shock people. And, you know, there are two ways that we have the laugh response one is, is that it shocks you in the sense that it makes you afraid, because it seems like a attack on you. It's a defensive mechanism that we have. It's not even if it's not funny, we will laugh, because that's our body's way of dealing with something that's really traumatic. The other way is when we something strikes us as funny because it's witty or clever, and that is more of a that's a less stressful response. And can we, we can laugh, and it's a more of a genuine response than one where we're basically traumatized, right? And I think that, and with everything else, is who? Who do you hang around? Who is your tribe? Who do you? Somebody was somebody said, some psychologist said, you know, show me 10 of your friends and I'll tell you exactly what your problem is, because the people you hang around will mirror what's going on in your interior landscape. And if you've got friends who are problematic, that means that there's some things on your psyche that you need to take a look at. And you know that, and it's especially people who have been traumatized early in life. Their coping mechanisms and their judgment is not so good, right? So they have to take a step back and look at well, are these people helping me? Are they hurting me? Because if you notice, a lot of traumatized people will surround themselves with traumatized people, and all they do is whip themselves in the lather. Are every day, and they get so melodramatic, and they get so upset about everything that's going on in life, they can't find any sense of humor or any sense of joy, yeah, and it's until they let go of those, those trauma responses they're they're pretty much in a hat, in a self repeating habit that is not going to be healthy. Michael Hingson  25:29 And I think you're absolutely right. It is very much about joy. And we, we should. We should find ways to be joyful and feel joy, and, of course, laugh and not take life so seriously. Unfortunately, there's so much going on today with people who clearly have no sense of humor, or at least they never exhibit it, that it tends to really be a problem. And unfortunately, I think we're all learning some really bad habits, or many of us are learning some very bad habits because of that. And I don't know what's going to break that cycle, but the cycle is going to have to break at some point. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  26:14 It will, unfortunately, a lot of times it takes a revolution, yeah, in order to replace old, unhealthy thought patterns with better thought patterns. You know, I'm reminded of the old saying that when an idiot tries to teach another idiot, you end up with two idiots. So you you have to be careful about who you're taking advice from, right? And so if, especially you know my my advice to anybody that's struggling and suffering is turn off your phone and turn off your TV, and if you know how to read, go read a book, because when you can get into a period of calm, quiet reflection, you're going to be able to make More sense out of what's going on in your life, and especially if you're reading a book that will explain to you the best way to deal with challenges, right? But just or just read a funny book, you know, something you know I find sarcasm and cleverness, extremely funny. So I love books like Forrest Gump, who who take extreme examples and turns them into funny scenarios, and they did a good Michael Hingson  28:01 job making that into a movie too. I thought, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  28:05 I mean, I tell you, I forget who the director was, but they were brilliant because they were able to spin a story that was honest. But it wasn't offensive, and you could laugh because of all of forests characteristics and everything else, but it was presented in the way that it wasn't, you know? It wasn't being mean, right? And it wasn't, being unkind, and so it was just a story of a man who ended up being a success, and it was more through Providence than anything else. You know, I love the Marx Brothers, oh, sure, because they always had a way of making fun of each other and making fun of other people and making fun of themselves that was truly humorous. And it was more sight gags. It was more, you know, one liners, and it wasn't by being mean to anybody. It was as about being very aware of what was going on. Michael Hingson  29:25 I'm trying to remember which movie it was. I think it was duck soup. Somebody fell into the water and she yelled, throw me a lifesaver. And so somebody threw her a lifesaver. That is a candy. Yeah, it's just so clever. It was clever. But, you know, one of the things that I enjoy is old radio shows, radios from the shows from the 30s, 40s and 50s, and the humor, again, was respectful of. Hmm, and they could pick on people to a degree, but it was never in a in a mean way, but just the humor was always so clever, and so I would, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  30:14 I would listen George and Gracie Allen, George, Jack Benny, Michael Hingson  30:19 Phil Harris, Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  30:21 and you was his name, Jackie Gleason, Michael Hingson  30:29 Amos and Andy. And of course, people today have decided Amos and Andy are offensive because they say it's all about blacks, and you're insulting black people. If anybody would go back and look in history, the reality is that Amos and Andy probably was one of the most well, it was one of the most popular shows on radio to the point where, if you were in a movie theater on Saturday afternoon watching a movie, they would stop it when Amos and Andy came on and play the show, and it didn't matter what the color of your skin was. In fact, I asked an Amos and Andy expert one time, when did they stop referring to themselves as black or dark? And the reason I asked that is because the first time I was exposed to Amos and Andy was actually the Amos and Andy TV shows, and I didn't know they were black, and I learned later that they were taken off the air when people started becoming offended because there were two black people. But I asked this, this lady about Amos and Andy, and when did they stop referring to themselves as black? And she said, Well, probably about the last time that she was aware of where there was a reference to it was 1937 so for many, many years, if you decided that their voices were black people, then, then you did, but they didn't talk about black or white or anything else. And and so it was. It was a very interesting show. And one guy usually was trying to con the other one and the other, well, king fish would con Andy, who usually fell for it. But gee, how many shows with white people do we see the same thing. You know? The reality is that it was a very funny show by any standard. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  32:26 Well, Sanford and sons, Sanford, same thing. I mean, that humor was, it was cutting you know, anytime you get on a cutting edge type of program, you know, it's inevitable that somebody's going to take offense. But I always laughed out loud. I watched that show, and it wasn't because they were demeaning anybody. It was just watching people trying to get by and using their wits. And a lot of times it was, it was comical because it wasn't very clever, but it was just they were doing the best they could to make a living. They were doing the best they could to live in their society. And I always admired that. I mean, they never, and they were able to, I guess, touch on the aspect of racial inequality without burning the house down. And it was like always admired them. You know, Sanford and sons, the Jeffersons, all of those shows, how about all the family? If you want to talk all in the family too well they they were just, you could switch one script with the other because it was more about human beings being human than it was about what the color of your skin was, yeah. So, you know, I would invite anybody who is offended by something to really ask yourself, what is it that offends you? Because there's always something in your consciousness that you find offensive. You would never be offended by anything if you unless you found something within yourself that's offensive, whether because and it's called the psychological term is called projection. You're projecting on what you're perceiving, and it's called bias. We all have conclusions. We all have prejudice. We all have judgments. Our brain is built that way to keep us alive, and so we're always interpreting data and perceptions to see if there's any threat out there, and if, when we start taking words as threatening, then we've got a problem. Yep, and. But because things like comedy and humor shouldn't offend anybody, but because you believe in something that makes that offensive, that's why you're offended. And so it's really as useful to people to really think about what is it that I believe that makes that offensive? Because most of the time you will find that whatever it is that you believe may not be true, and it's just something that some kind of conclusion you've drawn because of your experiences, or what you've been taught or what you've witnessed that's given you a wrong idea about something. So I invite anybody who is mad or angry that they look and see what is that belief that is making you angry? Michael Hingson  35:59 Yeah, it gets back to self analysis. It gets back to looking at yourself, which is something that most of us haven't really learned a lot about how to do. How. How did you pick up all these, these kind of nuggets of wisdom and so on. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  36:19 Well, when I burn, when I had my nervous breakdown back in 2004 I quit practicing law for a while because I couldn't bear the thought of going into my office and fighting another day of the battles that trial lawyers always fight. Now I won't say that transactional lawyers don't have battles, but Trial Lawyers end up probably picking a few fights on their own that, you know, they didn't really need to go there, but they do because, you know, Trial Lawyers have a, You know, a talent for arguing they have it's exciting to most of them, and they love to fight. And so when? But eventually, if you don't know how to manage it, it will, yes, the key wear you down. Yeah. So I got out of the law business for a while, and instead, I decided I wanted to go find out. Number one, why did I burn out? And number two, how to heal it. And so I went and studied with a number of energy healers who were very, very conscious people. They were very, very aware. You might even say they were enlightened, but it was they were always teaching me and always telling me about whatever I'm experiencing on the outside is just a reflection of what's on the inside. And so it's not so much about somebody being right or somebody being wrong. It's just the world is a mirror to whatever is going on inside between our ears. Yeah, and it's not because it's we're seeing something that's not there, or we're not seeing something that is there. It's just simply, how do we process that information that comes in through our sense organs and goes into our amygdala, then the hippocampus and then to the rest of our brain to try to figure out and but it's well documented that the brain will see whatever the brain wants to See, and a lot of times it's not what the eyes see, because there are lots of experiments you can take with graphics and other things that are illusory. Because, you know, you can see these graphs or prints that look like a spiral that's going around and is moving, but it's actually circles. But the way our brain puts things together, it makes it move. And another way is sounds. If you don't know what a sound is? Your brain is going to make up a story about that sound. And it could be either That's the sound of a frog, or it could be the sound of a somebody getting attacked. It could be the sound of whatever your brain it has to put a label on it, because that's the way the brain has been wired over our couple of hundreds of 1000s of years of evolution. That's how we manage to stay alive, because we make up a story about stuff, and if we're accurate, we live. If we're not accurate, we don't. Yeah, so the a lot of people are very good at making up stories in their head about what they're seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, whatever, because a lot of lot of smells will have psychological responses in our brain. So you know the smell of baby's milk or the smell of mown grass, or, you know smell of something rank, you always will have an instant story about what you just smell. And so when I would spend long periods of time thinking about these things, contemplating them, trying to figure out, well, what does that mean for me? I mean, how does that? How will it looking at this change my life? And basically, what I learned is is that the more objective you can be, the less you make up stories about stuff, the more successful you can be, and the more happy you'll be. Because, for example, there's a term called Mind reading, where people will be listening to somebody talking, and in the back of their mind, they're making up a story about what that person means, or they're making up a story about, well, where is this guy going with this? And it's, you know, it's, it's the opposite of listening, because when listening, you're focusing on the words you're hearing, yes, and then when it's your turn to talk, you can respond appropriately, but most people are thinking while they're hearing and it totally colors their experience, because if they think that this person doesn't like them, then they're going to interpret whatever is being said a certain way. If they think that person does like them, then they will interpret it a completely different way. So it's fascinating to me how people can get the wrong idea about things, because it just is a story that their mind made up to try to explain to them why they're experiencing what they're experiencing. Michael Hingson  42:25 That's why I like to really say that I've learned so much from dogs, because dogs don't do it that way. And as I tell people, dogs don't trust unconditionally. They love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally, but dogs are open to trust, and they're looking for reasons to trust, and they also, by definition, tend to be more objective, and they react to how we react and how we behave and and I think there's so much to be learned by truly taking the time to observe a dog and how they interact with you and how you interact with them, and that's going to make a big difference in how they behave. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  43:11 Well, you could definitely see a difference in the dog's behavior if they've been traumatized. Michael Hingson  43:16 Oh, sure, that's a different story altogether. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  43:19 Yeah, I agree that dogs are extremely innocent. You know, they don't have an agenda. They just want to be loved, and they would, they want to love Michael Hingson  43:31 and they want to know the rules, and they then they're looking to us to tell them what we expect. And there are ways to communicate that too, yes. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  43:41 And you know you all have to is give as a great example of how we should treat each other. Is all you have to do is, you know, a dog will forgive you eventually. And if you're kind to a dog. A dog will just give his entire being to you. Yeah, and it because they don't have any Guile, they don't have any hidden agendas. They just want to be you know, they want to eat. They want to be warm. They want to have fun. They do want to have fun, and so if you treat them timely, you will have a friend for life. Michael Hingson  44:29 Yep, we adopted a dog. We cared for it for a while. It was a geriatric dog at Guide Dogs for the Blind who had apparently had never worked as a guide dog, and she had been mistreated and then sent back to Guide Dogs for the Blind. She was 12. The school was convinced she was totally deaf because she wouldn't react to anything. They dropped a Webster's Dictionary next to her, and she didn't react. But we took her and we started working with her, and. It took several months before she would even take a walk with Karen, and Karen in her, you know, in Karen's wheelchair, and this wonderful golden retriever walking next to her. But the more we worked with her, the more she came out of her shell. She wasn't deaf. I'm sure she was hard of hearing, but you could drop a dictionary and she'd react to it, and if you called her, she would come. But it is all about developing the relationship and showing that you care and they will react. And so she she lived with us for more than three years before she passed, but was a wonderful creature, and we were, we were blessed to have her. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  45:48 Well, go ahead. No, I was just going to comment that I've got three Pomeranians, and they run the place course. You know, it's there. It's amazing how a six pound dog can run your life, but Michael Hingson  46:03 you let them, but you still establish, but you still establish some rules and you know, but that's, that's, yeah, I have a cat who runs the place, but that's okay. Well, we have not talked about, and I do want to talk about it when I first started hearing from you, your emails were all signed, sir, James Gray Robinson, and I always was curious, and you eventually explained it to me. But why don't you tell us all about your title and and all of that? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  46:39 Well, since we last talked, I've had a promotion. Now I'm a baron, so it's Baron James Gray Robinson, Scottish, Baron of Cappadocia. But I belong to a royal order that's known as the Royal Order of Constantine, the great in st Helen, and it was established in 312, 312, 12. Ad, when Constantine, who was the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire, conquered the Western Roman Empire, who it was brother who was the emperor of the Western Roman Empire, and they can then he consolidated the eastern and the western empires. And it was that way until 14 153 when they were defeated by the Solomon Turks. So for 1100 over 1100 years Well, let me back up. The most important battle in that war between the two brothers was the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, which was in Rome and Constantine awarded, rewarded 50 knights, 50 warriors, soldiers who fought on that campaign and carried the day against much superior forces. And he rewarded them by making them knights and giving them land in Turkey, in an area that's known as Cappadocia. And this, if you know anything about Turkey, there's an area which is honeycombed with caves that have been dug out over the millennia, and it's kind of like some body was doing some renovation work, and they broke through the floor, and they went into a cave system that would have been hand dug, and it goes down 17 layers, and it could house 30,000 people. But that was, that was Cappadocia and Constantine the Great charged these warriors with the with the duty to protect the Christian church, because that's because Constantine had converted to Christianity. His mother, Helen, was one of the driving forces in the early Christian church. She's the one that decided to build a cathedral on top of the the nativity, the manger, which is actually a grotto in Bethlehem, I've been there. I spent Christmas Eve there one year. And so the Christianity was just a fledgling religion, and he charged these nights and all successive nights, with the obligation to protect the Christians and to protect the churches. And so a lot of people credit the royal order with advancing the Christian religion. So it's been around since 312 and it's the oldest peerage and a peerage. Is a group of royalty that have knights. They have royalty like Dukes and nobles and that sort of thing. But if you look at other orders that we're aware of, the Knights of Balta didn't get established until about 1200 ad the Knights of the Templar nights, similar thing. They didn't get established till about 1000 years after we did. So it's a very, very ancient, very traditional order that focuses on helping abused women and traffic children. We have, you know, we have a lot of, you know, compassion for those people in the world, and so we are actively supporting those people all over the world. And then on the other side, we have the knights, and we have the women, equivalent of that are called dames, and then we have the nobles who are like barons and other ranks that go all the way up to a prince who is actually related To the King of Spain. So it's been a interesting history, but we can try, we can directly trace our lineage all the way back to 312 and what the you know, we have a couple of reasons for existing, one being the charitable, but also to honor people who have been successful and have accomplished a lot for other people and who care about their fellow man and women, so that we accept Anyone in eight different categories, everywhere from Arts to athletics to entrepreneurship to medicine to heroics. We have a number of veterans that were credible. Have incredible stories. We have a lot of A listers, movie stars, professional athletes, that sort of thing. Also philanthropy. I got in for philanthropy because I've given a lot of money over my life to help people all over the world, and that's one reason why I was awarded the Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award. But we're a group of people. We just today started a Royal Academy of Arts and Sciences because we want to help people all over the world learn things like finances and you arts and crafts and trades and so that people who are oppressed cultures that are in third world countries will be able to learn a good earn a good living, raise their status in life, and then learn how to go on and help other people. So that's very exciting. We've got a lot of things going on with the royal order that are we're growing very rapidly, where somebody said we're 1700 year old startup, but it's, you know, we've gone through some regime changes where people have died and there weren't any heirs, so they've had to go laterally to find somebody to take over. And that's where we are now. You know, interestingly enough, my sons will inherit my title, so it's a true royalty kind of thing, where it passes down by inheritance. But you know, we don't, you know we're, we're hundreds of people in our thing. It's like 300 people in our order right now. We'd like that to be 100,000 times that because we do good work and we foster principles of charity, silvery and honesty, so that we're trying to change the culture around us to where people don't take offense in everything that they're in a society that supports each other and that people can feel safe knowing that there's they have a brother or sister that will support them. Michael Hingson  54:57 Definitely fascinating. I was not familiar with it at all. All until you and I check, yes. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  55:03 Well, it's amazing that me. I guess you have to be somewhat of a history buff. Yeah, and there, and there are lots of service organizations like the Masons and the Shriners and every all the animal ones, the Moose Lodge, the beavers and all these people are doing, you know, charitable work. But not not. Many of them have a royal heritage that goes back to 312 right? So, and we do dress up like knights from time to time, and ladies, and we have swords and we have robes, and we have big parties, and we have gala events, and where we induct more people into our order, and it's all great fun, and it's, you know, and we raise money for charity. So it's a win, win situation. Cool, and it doesn't hurt having Baron on your resume. Michael Hingson  56:08 No, I am sure it doesn't well. I want to thank you for explaining that, and I want to thank you for being here again. This has been a lot of fun, and I'm glad that we had a chance to really talk about humor, which, which is more important, I think, than a lot of people realize. And again, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  56:31 My website is James Gray robinson.com Michael Hingson  56:36 There you go. Easy to spell, easy to get to. So I hope people will do that. And again, I hope that you all enjoyed today, and that you will let me know that you enjoyed it. Please feel free to email me at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, please give us a five star rating. Go off and read history and learn about the royal order. I think that's probably relevant and important to do as well. And again, if anyone knows anyone who ought to be a guest on the podcast, please let us know. Introduce us. Give us a rating of five stars wherever you're listening. And again, James, I just want to thank you for being here. Excuse me, sir. James. Barron, James, really appreciate you being here, and we'll have to do it again. Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq  57:24 Well, Michael, my hat's off to you. I think you're doing amazing work. I think you're helping a lot of people. You have a great podcast I've gone on your website or your YouTube, and it's a lot of fun. And I think you're doing a great service for people. Michael Hingson  57:45 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

We're keepin' it hyper-local this week on Sustainability Now! Your host, Justin Mog, is in conversation with two community radio friends, Sharon Scott, General Manager & Sean Selby, Audio Carpenter, from our sister station here in Louisville, WXOX ARTxFM 97.1 FM and https://artxfm.com. These folks are extremely knowledgable about people-powered radio and, in fact, Sharon wrote a book about it called “Low Power FM for Dummies” that just came out in 2023. Learn all about the community radio and experimental radio scene right here in Louisville and around the country, through their work with the Grassroots Radio Conference and the National Federation of Community Broadcasters. Learn how you can get involved and don't miss their 10th Birthday Party coming up on Valentine's Day 2026! As always, our feature is followed by your community action calendar for the week, so get your calendars out and get ready to take action for sustainability NOW! Sustainability Now! is hosted by Dr. Justin Mog and airs on Forward Radio, 106.5fm, WFMP-LP Louisville, every Monday at 6pm and repeats Tuesdays at 12am and 10am. Find us at https://forwardradio.org The music in this podcast is courtesy of the local band Appalatin and is used by permission. Explore their delightful music at https://appalatin.com

I really enjoyed this conversation with Natalie and her mother, Mary, because it reminded me how an unstoppable mindset is often built quietly, over time, through creativity, learning, and persistence. Together, they share what it has been like to navigate life across generations while facing learning disabilities, health challenges, workplace adversity, and the constant need to adapt. We talk about Natalie's journey with attention deficit disorder and anxiety, how creative outlets like baking, art, music, and storytelling helped her find focus and confidence, and why returning to school later in life became an act of self-trust rather than fear. Mary's story adds another powerful layer. She reflects on growing up with low self-esteem, navigating male-dominated workplaces, and dealing with sexual harassment long before there were systems in place to address it. As a mother, artist, and professional, she shares what it means to keep moving forward while supporting her daughter's growth. Throughout our conversation, we explore accessibility, creative entrepreneurship, lifelong learning, and why accommodations and understanding still matter. I believe you will find this episode both honest and encouraging, especially if your own path has been anything but linear. Highlights: 00:00 – Hear how creativity and resilience shaped an unstoppable mindset across two generations.08:35 – Learn how attention deficit disorder and anxiety changed the way focus, learning, and confidence developed.14:33 – Discover why stepping away from a demanding career can open the door to new growth.21:23 – Understand how workplace sexual harassment leaves lasting effects long after it happens.35:16 – See why protecting and celebrating local artists became a personal mission.59:09 – Learn why accessibility, accommodations, and empathy still matter in everyday life. About the Guest: Mary Dunn: Mary was born and raised in Pittsburgh, PA.  She was the only child of Norman and Lucille Rump.  At a young age, she liked to draw and as she grew older she enjoyed painting.  Her first painting was in oil and Mary was eleven years old.  However, because of the expense of art supplies, it was difficult to pursue a continuous endeavor in that particular form of art. While in high school, nothing really exciting happened as Mary was on the shy side.  She didn't belong to any groups and she really just wanted to graduate.  She graduated in the upper third of her class.  The most momentous part of the graduation was that Jeff Goldblum was also a graduate of her class. After graduation, Mary continued her education at The Pittsburgh Beauty Academy.  There she studied cosmetology and acquired a teacher license.  Although she never taught, she did work at a few different shops and also managed a shop.  These experiences helped Mary to become less shy. At that time, she met her first husband and had two children.  The marriage lasted for eleven years, and Mary was left with two small children.  Mary realized that her background in cosmetology would not be sufficient to raise two small children. She decided to go to college. With the support of her parents, she was accepted to attend Carlow College which is now Carlow University.  There she studied business and minored in theology.  She almost minored in art, but she needed one more credit to have that as a minor.  It was important for her to graduate in order to take care of her children.  While in college she belonged to several organizations.  One organization was an honor society called Delta Epsilon Sigma.  There she became an assistant chair of the organization.  The second organization was OASIS.  The organization was for non-tradition students.  She was vice-president during her senior year at Carlow.  She graduated in 1991 cum laude. After Carlow, she found her first employment opportunity working the Equitable Gas Company as a “Technical Fieldman”.  In this position, Mary would draft pipeline installations, work up costs for those installations, and fill in for supervisors when they went on vacations.  The job was difficult as it had usually been filled by men prior to her.  She was thrust into a job that she learned on her own and was subject to sexual harassment.   At that time, sexual harassment was not spoken about.  Mary didn't even realize that her peers were doing these things to her.  When she supervised union personnel, they were nice and valued her expertise.  However, when she returned to the office, more harassment continued. During that period, Mary decided to get a Master's Degree and enrolled in Carnegie Mellon's Heinz school of Public Management.  Her classes were very valuable as she learned about leadership, information systems, and marketing communications.  She graduated in 1996 with distinction.  Even though after she graduated from CMU, she continued to be sexual harassed.  She thought it might be a good idea to document the issues that made her position difficult.  She began to take notes on these incidents.  When she went to Human Resources, Mary was told that she should confront these people and tell them how she was feeling.  Mary couldn't do that because she felt it would make matters worse.  She applied for another position within the company.  In 1997, Mary became Program Manager of Energy Technology. While there, Mary developed and implemented a marketing plan to promote the use of alternative fuels.  As a Program Manager, Mary became a member of Pittsburgh Region Clean Cities which focused on alternative fueled vehicles.  During this time, she became a board member and focused on grants and wrote the Pittsburgh Region Clean Cities Newsletter. In 1999, her position was eliminated at Equitable.  In some ways, Mary was relieved about the elimination, but in other ways, it was the first time this ever happened to her.  She was now remarried and was concerned about her children. It was very scary. Thankfully, Mary was not unemployed for long.  She was hired at Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission as a Transportation Planner.  In this position she implemented a newly designed client tracking system of their products and services that helped to increase revenue. Additionally, she worked on a communication plan to implement branding and crisis communications. Eventually, Mary became a Marketing/Communication Specialist for Southwestern Pennsylvania Communications.  She was responsible for multi-media communications connected with branding. Mary designed logos for special projects, arranged special affairs, open houses and conferences.  She remained a part of Pittsburgh Region Clean Cities.   Mary additionally prepared presentations for executive management to deliver regarding the Joseph A. James Memorial Excellence in Local Government Achievement Award that recognizes a municipal government elected or appointed official in any local government, agency, or Council of Government for a lifetime of exemplary governance or management. Unfortunately, a new Executive was hired to replace the past Executive who had passed away.  Because of this, our whole department was eliminated. After Southwestern, Mary was hired as the Manager of Administration and Human Resources for THE PROGRAM for Female Offenders.  While at THE PROGRAM, Mary was responsible for maintaining the policies and daily operations in THE PROGRAM.  She implemented a cost effective foodservice program, introduced staff ID cards and implemented the Windows NT network server and computer security using a Digital Subscriber Line which is a type of high-speed internet connection that uses existing copper telephone lines to provide internet access to three PROGRAM facilities. Additionally, Mary implemented a human resource database for directors and managers that targeted specific employment information. Mary maintained safety equipment and introduced a safe evacuation plan for her building.. Unfortunately, because THE PROGRAM was grant based and when it was time to acquire grant money much of the previous grants were not renewed and Mary lost her job.  Mary eventually was hired by Roach and Associates, Inc. as a Project Manager. In this position, she negotiated oil and gas leases for exploration and productions of future gas wells in Clearfield County Pennsylvania.  During this time, Mary was responsible for permitting activities with the state, county and federal agencies as well as prepared training seminars to meet pipeline safety regulations as per U.S. Department of Transportation, CFR49, Parts 192-193. Mary authored documentation regarding pipeline regulations for various housing authorities and gas production companies within Pennsylvania, West Virginia and New York.  Besides working at Roach, Mary became part of the Transition Team for Peduto for Mayor of Pittsburgh.  That was such a memorable experience as my team focused on some of the issues facing the newly elected Mayor. It was nice to be a part of change. After working ten years at Roach and Associates, Inc., Mary decided it was time to retire in 2015. While working at Roach, Mary began dabbling in art again.  It had been quite a while since college and painting.  But she began to work in pastels and eventually more in the line of acrylic painting.  She became president of the Pittsburgh Pastel Artist League.  She no longer is president of that group.  Mary now belongs to the Pittsburgh Society of Artists where she was juried into the group.  She has had her work display at The Galaxie in Chicago,  Pittsburgh Technical Institute, Monroeville Library, Gallery Sim, Boxheart Gallery, Southern Allegheny Museum of Art, Saville Gallery in Maryland and various other galleries around Pittsburgh.  Her Study in Pastels won an Award of Excellence from Southern Allegheny Museum of Art.  Mary also came in second place in the Jerry's Artarama Faber Castel Contest. As time went on, Mary decided to focus more on her art work and began teaching students how to paint with Acrylic.  She also began a YouTube channel, Pittsburgh Artist Studio, where she gave free art lessons in acrylic to future artists around the country.  Unfortunately, Mary developed chronic back issues, and she had to give up her teaching.  She has had two back operations to alleviate the pain, but the second operation really didn't help.  It has caused more painful issues.  Therefore, it is difficult for her to paint a long period of time.  Currently, Mary devotes her time to illustrating her oldest daughter's books for children.  The books are a series about a little boy's adventures in his life.  Her books can be found on Amazon under her name “Nicole Leckenby”.  Additionally, she has illustrated a book for her younger daughter, Natalie Sebula, entitled “The Many Colors of Natalie”. In conclusion, now that Mary is retired, she has had more time to work on different art projects a little at a time.  She lives with her husband Steve and two dogs Grumpy and Sally.  She belongs to a group of wonderful women who review Bible Psalms each week. Since my minor in theology, I do enjoy reading various books on different religious subjects.  I am thankful for each day that I have and continue to work on the gifts God has given me. Natalie Belin: I am focusing on the arts. I am a creator with an ambitious attitude. I have no problem thinking BIG and dreaming BIG. While everyone else stays inside the lines, I boldly color outside the lines. Natalie resides near Pittsburgh, PA. She is 40 years old and loves adventures. Within these 40 years Natalie has experienced highs and lows. However, during the low points she was like water: adaptable, resilient, and always finding a way through. At toddler age, it was brought to the attention that she had high pressure in her eyes. However, nothing was really done about it because of her age. Typically, high pressures occur in older adults. After many years, one eye doctor took it seriously.  He prescribed eye drops and finally recommended a laser technique to open the tear ducts.  This alleviated the high pressure and since no eye drops have been needed. In 5 grade, she was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder. Her mother, Mary Dunn advocated for her until someone listened, and her teachers realized it was a real problem. Steps were taken to help Natalie focus more.  As she grew older, it was important to do activities that helped her focus such as cheerleading and possible careers in culinary. Because of the importance of focusing, Natalie decided that culinary arts would be beneficial.  Natalie graduated in October of 2004 from the Pennsylvania Culinary Institute with an associate's degree in Specialized Technology Le Cordon Bleu Program in Patisserie & Baking.  While there, she was elected class president. The Pennsylvania Culinary Institute offered externships to various prestigious areas to hone the craft.  Natalie's externship was at the Greenbrier Resort in White Sulpher Springs where she was ultimately hired. However, Natalie decided to return to Pittsburgh after a car accident. Natalie continued to work as a pastry chef for about five years. After, she decided to further her education, and Natalie graduated in December of 2023 from the University of Pittsburgh with a Bachelor of Arts in Humanities. Some of her academic achievements are National Society of Collegiate Scholars, National Society of Leadership and Success, Alpha Sigma lambda-Alpha Chi Chapter at the University of Pittsburgh, Delta Alpha PI Honor Society. During her academic life, Natalie became an Emmy nominated producer for Pitt to the Point (a class focusing on the news as well as behind the scenes of a news/magazine program that covers the City of Pittsburgh, the University of Pittsburgh regional campuses as well as national and international events.) Currently, Natalie is in a Graduate Certification Program which is also at the University of Pittsburgh. The Certification is in Sports, Entertainment, and Arts Law (SEAL). She hopes to use this program as a steppingstone to complete her master's degree in Sports, Entertainment, and Arts Law. In addition to the SEAL certification, one could say that Natalie is a woman of many colors.  She works full-time as an Administrator for the Rehabilitation Science Program in the School of Health and Rehabilitation Sciences at the University of Pittsburgh. This is where she provides administrative support for general program management, advising and faculty. Another aspect of Natalie's many colors is writing.  Several years ago, she wrote a poetry book called The Many Colors of Natalie. This is a book for 18+. There are several illustrations in the book that complement the poems. Mary Dunn, Natalie's mother, created the illustrations. In August of 2020, Natalie launched The Many Colors of Natalie Blog. She started this blog to give a new perspective to Pittsburgh other than being known for sports. This allows individuals the ability to educate themselves on different variations of Pittsburgh's art or artists as well as bringing awareness to the art scene. Natalie's motto is Love Art & Support Your Local Artist! Additionally, Natalie has been a model/actor since 2012. Most of her work consists of being an extra in various music videos and movies. Furthermore, she is an ambassador for Ambassador Sunglasses and Just Strong Clothing. Just Strong Clothing's Mission “We are a clothing brand on a mission to empower those who are not just strong for a girl, they are just strong. Whether you are an experienced lifter, a new starter or have simply overcome great adversaries in your life, the JustStrong community are here to empower and motivate you to never give up.” “Ambassador was formed to extract, refine, and exhibit the marriage between what was and what will be in fashion culture. When wearing Ambassador, you break the mold of the mundane to embrace your unmatched individualism.” Besides being an ambassador, Natalie became a Creative Percussion Artist in 2020. “Creative Percussion is a family-owned business, established in 2018, and run by husband-and-wife team, Kevin and Cheri Feeney.” Her picture is on the site as a CP percussion artist. Not only is Natalie a musician, but she dabbles in various mediums in art. Her mixed media piece Peace, Love, and Woodstock is currently in the Woodstock Museum located in Saugerties, New York. “The purpose for the Woodstock Museum is: To gather, display, disseminate and develop the concept and reality of Woodstock, encompassing the culture and history of a living colony of the arts, with special emphasis placed on the exhibition of self-sustaining ecological technologies. To encourage and increase public awareness of Woodstock by providing information to the general public through cultural events, displays of artifacts, outreach programs, communication media events and personal experiences, and to contribute, as an international attraction, to the cultural life and prosperity of our region; and to engage in all lawful activities in pursuit of the foregoing purposes.” Lastly, Natalie and her mother Mary Dunn started a side hustle several years ago. Mother and Daughter Collaboration (vending show name) is a great opportunity for Natalie to showcase her entrepreneurial skills in addition to her art. Their Etsy name is Maker's Collab Studio. In conclusion, Nat is excited for the future, and to see what is in store. She considers herself to be dynamic and resilient. Even those who know Natalie would say the same.  Regardless of what she has been through, she keeps going. She realizes that the tough times eventually do end. In self-reflection, the “tough time” may have been a life lesson, or a possible steppingstone to what's next in her life. Only time will tell. Natalie will always be a supporter of the arts, and she will always create in some way. As Natalie ages, she sees the importance of advocating for the disabled. At one point in her life, she was embarrassed about sharing her learning disability because she felt that we live in a society where having a disability isn't necessarily welcomed and is frowned upon. Do not fear individuals who need special accommodations.  Instead, educate yourself. Try being that individual who needs certain accommodations, and the accommodations are not provided or easily accessible. Progress has been made in educating the ignorant. However, there is more work that needs to be done. Ways to connect with Natalie & Mary**:** Blog website: Home - The Many Colors of Natalie Personal website: Home | natalie-sebula-belin Book of poetry: The Many Colors of Natalie: Written by: Natalie Belin - Kindle edition by Dunn, Mary, Leckenby, Nicole, Merlin, Grace, Palmieri, David. Literature & Fiction Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com. Facebook: (1) Facebook Instagram: Natalie Sebula (@themanycolorsofnatalie) • Instagram photos and videos Etsy: MakersCollabStudio - Etsy About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. We're doing something that we've done a few times before, and we get to do it again today. We have two people as guests on unstoppable mindset this time, mother and daughter, and that'll be kind of fun they have, between them, lots of experiences in art, but in all sorts of other kinds of things as well. They live in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area, and I'm not going to say a whole lot more, because I want them to tell their stories. So I want you to meet Natalie bellen and her mother, Mary Dunn. So Natalie and Mary, both of you, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  02:03 Well, thank you for Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  02:03 having us. Yes, we're happy to be here. Thank you. Michael Hingson  02:06 Well, let's see. We'll start with mom. Why don't you tell us something about the early Mary growing up, and you know what? What life was like growing up? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  02:18 Well, growing up, I was born in Pittsburgh. I was actually born on in the south side of Pittsburgh, and it was called St Joseph Hospital, and now it's an apartment building, but we lived here. I've lived here all my life. I lived in Hazelwood until I was about the age of three. Then we moved to Whitaker, Pennsylvania, and now I'm in West Mifflin, Pennsylvania. So it's like we hopped around a bit. Growing up in my family was a little bit difficult. I had been bullied quite a bit by my cousins, so it kind of like left you know how it does with bullying. You know, it's not like today. Of course, I didn't want to go out and do something terrible to myself. It's just that it left my self esteem very low, and I just kind of stayed and was by myself most of the time. So until I grew up, I graduated from high school, I went to West Midland, North High School, I graduated in the same class as Jeff Goldblum. Although I didn't know him, I knew that he was very talented. I thought he was more talented on a piano than he was with acting, but he is still he's still very good with the piano, with his jazz music, and that's basically it. I've been in West Mifflin now for she's been quite a bit Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  03:49 since I was in seventh grade, and now I'm 40 years old, so we've been here a long time. Michael Hingson  03:54 Yeah, so it's sort of like 3027 years or so, or 28 years? Yes, well, Natalie, tell us about you when it was like growing up in and all of that. Sure. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  04:08 No problem. So I grew up in Whitaker for the most part, my yearly eight years, like until about fifth grade, I guess about like fifth grade, and then we moved, well, we just moved to a different house and whatever. Yeah, that when we moved for the second time, it was more in a neighborhood with kids, so that was, like, a lot more fun. And we played like tag and all that. So that my early years, I remember that like playing tags, swimming, I love, like skiing on the water, jet skis, stuff like that. Definitely. I loved running around. And I loved dance as a kid too, that was a lot of fun. Michael Hingson  05:00 Okay, and so you went to high school? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  05:05 Oh, yeah, I went, Yes. I went to West Midland area high school, and I graduated in 2003 in 2004 I graduated from the Pennsylvania Culinary Institute as a pastry chef and part of the things that I had to do to graduate, I had to do, like, about a six month internship where I resided in white sulfur springs, West Virginia, and I got to do my externship at the Greenbrier, and that was pretty exciting, because it has quite the history. There. People love it there for Well, one of the things that sticks in my mind is Dorothy Draper, who decorated that resort. Her taste is very cool, because she went bold, like with flower print and stripes mixed together for wallpaper. There's stories in history behind the sulfur water there. And then most people might know the Greenbrier for their golf courses, for the golf course actually, or in history about the sulfur water Michael Hingson  06:26 now, you had high eye pressure for a while after you were born, right? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  06:31 Oh, yes, the eye pressures. That's quite the story, let me tell you so at a very young age, like different doctors and eye doctors that I went to. They knew that I had high pressures, but they didn't seem like it was a big issue. But my mom had the inkling that I needed to go to a different doctor when I was like, I guess you Middle School, Michael Hingson  06:58 yeah, yeah, you were about now, was there a lot of pain because of the pressure. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  07:02 I didn't even know was happening, so I wasn't in discomfort or anything. So they said, don't they kind of dismissed it. So I wasn't worried about it, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  07:14 Neither was I. But you know, like eventually we did go to a doctor and he said, Oh, my goodness, you have these high pressures. And it's, it could be like glaucoma. We don't ever see that in a young person, you know, they haven't ever seen anything like that. He was just amazed by it. And go ahead, you can finish this. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  07:36 Dr Al, I have so much respect for him, because he truly took care of my eyes for a very long time. I started seeing him in middle school, and I saw him up until, like my late 30s, and he I would see him quite frequently, because he would always monitor those pressures, because he knew the importance of that and how they could damage my eyes and I can lose my sight. So he always had me do like fields test eye pressure checks, because your pressures in your eyes can fluctuate throughout the day. So I would come in in like different times of the day to make sure they're not super high and stuff like that. He would prescribe me on different eye pressure medications like eye drops, because the they like the eye drops would help my eyes to it to regulate the pressures to a certain point, and then my eyes would get used to them, it seemed like, so then we would have to go to a different prescription. I caused that doctor a lot of stress, I think, because he was always thinking about my case, because it was so rare. And he went to a conference, actually, and brought that up at a conference, and at that conference, they said for me to get the laser, laser procedure done to Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:10 open the tear ducts. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:12 Yeah, yeah. And luckily, that solved it. Michael Hingson  09:18 Wow, so you so the the tear ducts were, were small or not draining properly, correct? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:26 Yeah, it was points where, like, if I wanted to cry, no tears would come Michael Hingson  09:31 out, no tears would come out. Well, yeah, yeah. Then you also discovered, or somehow you you learned about being Attention Deficit Disorder. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  09:45 Yeah, so, um, when I was from like one or like, from kindergarten to third grade, I went to a Catholic school, and I didn't seem like there was anything. Being really wrong. But then when I went to a public school, I was really having a hard time grasping the material, and I would get really frustrated when I was at home trying to do the homework and I just wasn't understanding. I believe the educators there said like I was also behind, which could have been part of the issue. But my mom would like try to help me with my homework, and it was like Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  10:28 it was hard. She would, she would get so frustrated and throw the papers and just, you know it, because it was very difficult for her, and we really couldn't under I couldn't understand why. You know this was happening, because my, my other daughter, I never had issues like that with so we had, I guess we were told to go. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  10:53 I think that was Miss Lenz in fifth grade. Yeah, she had me get tested for a learning disability, and with all the testing that was done with that, they said that I had attention deficit disorder. So whenever that diagnosis was made, I was able to get like teacher teaching aids to help me through tests to help me understand the curriculum a little bit better. Tutors did the counselor Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  11:28 I well they I did take her to get tested outside of school, and that's they actually told me some things that could help her with this. And then I went to the teachers, and the teachers, some of them, didn't, like, actually take this into consideration. They, they didn't really realize attention deficit disorder at that time. It was new. And so they, they kind of said, well, we don't, we don't believe in that or whatever. And I said, Well, can you just have her, like, sit up front, because she would pay attention more and she would focus better, because that's the problem she couldn't focus on. So it took a while, and then finally, the principal in the fifth grade, he had a meeting with the teachers us, and he actually was the one who brought that to their attention, that this is a problem, that attention disorder, you know, does occur, and some of it is hyper, just hyperactive disorder. So it luckily she didn't have that part of it, but it was the focusing, and we just got her more involved in things that she could learn how to focus. They recommended cheerleading, they recommended culinary school, and I think that really helped her to learn more on focusing. But she still has anxieties and things like that. It's still Michael Hingson  13:03 it's still there. So why culinary school? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  13:07 So that is such a fun question. When my grandma used to watch me, she was very particular on what I was like watching. She didn't want me to watch anything like super crazy or out there. So I would always watch cooking shows, and I thought he was so unique, the different recipes and everything that these chefs were making. And I love some of their personalities, like emerald, he was always so hyper and loud, so fun. And it was interesting to see the different types of foods that they were creating that, like certain countries make. You know, I love Spanish food. It's so good. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  13:55 She decided not to even get into that part. That was the thing. She wanted to be a pastry chef, yeah, Michael Hingson  14:02 something to be said for chocolate chip cookies. But anyway, go ahead. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  14:07 Yeah, she makes a good one, too. At Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  14:10 this point, I don't even know why. What drew me to baking more than culinary I think the two different styles are cooking are very interesting, because like with cooking, you don't have to be so exact with the measurements and everything with certain things like the spices and stuff. If you don't like rosemary, you don't have to put it in there. But with baking, it's definitely more scientific. Have to be more accurate with the measurements of certain ingredients, like baking soda, because it's lavender and like, altitude will totally screw up your baking Yes, so many reasons that elevation is so important. So yeah, so Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  14:59 mine's to it. Or whatever, you know? Yeah, Michael Hingson  15:01 so you went and did an externship, and then what did you do? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  15:06 So with the externship, I was there for a little bit over six months, I was officially hired, and I graduated from culinary school, but, um, I got in a car accident. So that's like, why left? So I was in baking professionally for about a total five years, and then I went back to school. Sorry, that's grumpy. Can you hear him barking? 15:36 I'm sorry. I'll go. No, no, it's fine. Michael Hingson  15:41 So why did you leave culinary? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  15:43 Um, I was just ready for a change. Because I started working professionally when I was like 19, so by my mid 20s, I was just ready to go back. I mean, that is a very demanding field. You're working several hours. Um, you're working with all types of personalities, certain pressures, long days sometimes. And I was just ready to see what else was out there for me. Michael Hingson  16:12 So you went back to school to study, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  16:15 yes, so my when I graduated in 2023 with my undergraduate degree, it was in humanities, and it focused on three areas of art, music, studio, arts and theater. The main focus was theater, okay? Michael Hingson  16:39 And so, what did you do with that? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  16:42 So with that degree, I did several different things. I wrote a poetry book, which I provided a link so people can access if they would like to purchase it. I created a blog in 2020 called the many colors of Natalie, and I created a blog to help bring a different perspective to Pittsburgh, other than just it being a city for sports, because there's a lot of talented artists out there, and plus, like during a pandemic, that caused a lot of strain on a lot of things, and I was really worried about certain venues that were iconic here closing and completely wiping out the whole art industry here, you know. So, um, with that too, I also, um, I was doing music at the time as a percussionist, and that's when I got introduced to creative percussion products, and I was using that with the different performances that I was doing. And I ended up being one of their artists featured on their page, website or website, yeah. Okay, yeah, and I also volunteered at a local dance studio called Lisa de gorrios dance, and I got to work with the younger kids, and I did that for a couple years. So that was interesting to see what it was like to teach and put on performances. It's a lot of you get to see the behind the scenes and time management and stuff like that. Also, I'm thinking here for a second, sorry. How about, oh, we, my mom and I created an Etsy shop. So we started a few years ago, called Mother Daughter collaboration, a vending that was like our vending show name, and we did that for Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  18:56 we've been doing that for a while. Yeah, we, we put different products up. I kind of tend to do my artwork, and she puts up some things also in art, we have, we have interesting things like CD, telephone, covers, cases, purses, you know. And we're working on a new product now to to put on to the Etsy shop this year. We didn't do many vending shows. I had surgery last last year on my back, and I had a hard time recovering because it was pretty expensive. So we're hoping to get that going again this year, or towards the end of the year, when the Christmas shows start happening, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  19:47 we did, um, create an Etsy shop called makers collab studio, and we were focusing more on that this year. Um, so we do have, like, a variety of different products. Um. Um, which I also provided the link to the Etsy shop. If anybody wants to check out our products and what we have, that'd be great if you stop checked out that. Michael Hingson  20:11 Yeah, my late my late wife, was a quilter and tried to run an Etsy shop, but people didn't want to pay any kind of real prices for handmade quilts, because they just thought that quilts should be, like, 50 or $75 and that just wasn't realistic. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  20:30 But, well, that's, that's the trouble. What we're seeing also, yeah, we do, I do, like, we do t shirts and things like that too. But people it. I don't think people realize what's behind the whole process. No, or they don't care. No, you know, I mean, there's a lot involved as far as your equipment. When it was covid, I was, well, I'm retired, but I was working part time, and I was able to, you know, get what is it, you know, workers, whatever, yeah, you know, yes. And with that money, I actually bought like things to do, T shirts, like the heat press and different parts to like a cricket that we can do things with. And so, you know, like the things that you know, you still have to buy supplies, even with my artwork, it's so expensive anymore, when I first started back in, you know, when my kids grew up and they were on their own, where I really focused on it, and I can't believe the expense of it. You know, it's just, it's everything's expensive these days. So, yeah, really watch what you're doing and how you approach it too. You know, you can't spend a lot of money on things. We don't have, like, a whole backlog of products. I mean, we just do a few things and hope that the things that we make are sellers, you know, Michael Hingson  22:05 yeah, well, and I hope it, it can is more successful for you going forward. That's a useful thing. You You've done a lot Mary with with art over the years, but you've also had other, other kinds of jobs where you've worked for some pretty large companies, and you've been reading your bio, you faced some sexual harassment issues and things like that, haven't you? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  22:29 Yes, yes, that was difficult boy, and I didn't realize that at the time I went to college late in life because I was getting divorced and I needed a job that I could take care of my family, my girls, and so I decided to go to college and my my mom and dad watched my kids while I went to school, which was nice. And the first job I had was with the gas company here, and I was called a technical Fieldman. And what I would do is, like, I would draw pipeline installations and the and sometimes I would fill in as a supervisor. When I filled in first as a supervisor, it was great. I mean, the guys were decent. We always came to a conclusion. I always trusted what they're you know what they would say about pipeline? Because I knew nothing about pipeline. It was all new to me. But when I would go back to the office, it was, it was just like crazy things that would happen. I mean, I won't go into detail, and I started writing these things down because I thought this just doesn't seem right, that these people are saying these things to me or doing these things to me. I had a nice little book of all these incidents that happened, and I went to the HR department, and they wanted me to confront these people in my office, to tell them how I felt. Well, that, to me, would have made everything worse, because that's just that, you know, kind of work environment. So luckily, I was, I was promoted into a job that lasted two years, and then my job was eliminated. So that was my first, my first thing with that was the only time I really had sexual harassment that was really bad. I went on to another which was the program for female Well, I worked for a university for a while, and then I went into the program for female offenders, which was really interesting work. I enjoyed that it was like people that were out on that needed to, that were like drug addicts and and they were looking for a new way. They had been in jail and this incarcerated, and they came into this. Program they had that was part of their incarceration or parole. They had to do this, this program, and that was so interesting. I mean, it was just heartfelt, because you just saw these people that were trying so hard to make a good life for themselves and not to go back to their original way of living. And unfortunately, that was all grant money. And that job ended also so that, you know, and I was a transportation planner, I did a lot of things, and then I ended up going back into the gas industry. I worked for an engineer, and we were working in the production side of everything. So he had drove to you wells, and we had leases, and I took care of those. And I liked that job for about 10 years. I stayed there, and then I I retired. I was getting tired of it at that point. Michael Hingson  26:02 Yeah. Why was your first why was your first job at the original gas company eliminated? Or when you were promoted and you said it was eliminated, yeah? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  26:10 Well, that's what I like to know why it was eliminated. I think sometimes that job was just to keep me quiet. That's how I felt. I mean, I, I they, they knew that I was upset and that I didn't like what was happening. And I think it was just to keep me quiet, and they realized that that job wasn't going to last, but it was a marketing job. We were using different ways to use gas, alternative fuel vehicles, fuel cells, you know. So it was an interesting job, too, but it it didn't really have the supervisor we had was not really a person that pushed the product, you know. So that could have been the reason, too, that they eliminated a lot of that. Yeah, so I wasn't the only one that went I mean, there was another person in that at that time, and eventually that whole department was eliminated. Now that gas company, they sold all that off, and another gas company took it over and equitable. Still is EQT here, and they work, I think at this point, they work with the leases and things like that, and horizontal drilling, they call it. Michael Hingson  27:38 So now that you're retired, what do you do? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  27:41 Well, for a while there, Michael Hingson  27:44 in addition to Etsy, yeah, for Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  27:47 a while, I was actually doing hair. I was my first, my first, I guess, employment type, or whatever. I went to beauty school, and I became a cosmetologist, and I also became a teacher in cosmetology. So when I first became all that the money wasn't so great. I worked my first job. I was so excited I had this job because I thought I was going to be making millions. You know, they they really pump you up in in beauty school that you're going to really succeed and you're going to make this money. Well, my first job, I worked over 40 hours at that job, and I only got $15 in my first pay. It was like we had to stay there the whole time until everyone was finished working. So the girls that had their clientele that they worked the whole day and into the evening, like till eight o'clock. Maybe we had to stay till eight o'clock. Even though I didn't have anybody to do. I might have had one person that day, yeah, so that that wasn't too I just worked at that for a few years, and then I decided to leave and take care of my family. Yeah, well, that that I went back to it when I retired, and it had changed significantly, making pretty good money. I was only working three days a week, and I did pretty well. But then my back. I had the issues with my back, and I couldn't go back to it, which really upset me. I really love that job. Michael Hingson  29:29 Well, things happen. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  29:31 Yeah, it does. You know, I'm happy not to stay at home. I figured now that I'm actually 73 years old now, so I think I I should retire Michael Hingson  29:47 and enjoy my life a little. Well. So Natalie, you graduated in 2023 and so then what did you start to do? And what are you doing now? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  29:57 So what I'm doing now is I'm. Still focusing on the Etsy shop, but I also got into a graduate certificate program, and this certificate is in sports entertainment and arts law, and I really hope to use this program as a stepping stone to complete my master's degree in the sports entertainment and arts law program. Michael Hingson  30:25 What exactly is a graduate certification program, as opposed to a master's degree? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  30:32 So that's a great question. So the certificate program is like a newer program, and it's like the only one in the world, I'm pretty sure, that focuses on sports, entertainment and art. So it's like a newer, more modern type of learning program. And this certificate is a great stepping stone, and for me to check it out before I actually go in to the master's program. This is, like, my second week, and I love it so far, and all these classes that I'm doing, and if I keep my grades up and everything, will apply to the master's program if I get in. Michael Hingson  31:15 Okay, well, so Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  31:20 less credits than, like, what you would need for a master's program, and it's less I don't need a textbook. I have these things called nutshells, where I'm pretty sure, like, I'll be studying different types of cases or something like that through that. So it's like online stuff. Michael Hingson  31:43 The Okay? And how long do you think it will take you to complete that Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  31:49 the certification program should be about a year, and it's all online, okay? Michael Hingson  31:55 And how, how long have you been doing it so far? Just two weeks. Oh, so next August, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the hope is then you can use that to go forward and actually work toward getting a master's degree. Which, which sounds pretty cool, yeah, for sure. What do you want to do with it once you get a master's degree? Well, like Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  32:20 all those points like sports entertainment and arts, I think is Pittsburgh is a great city to represent all of those. And I hope to help represent like clients, maybe do like to protect their works and them as an artist. And I would like to hopefully get into paralegal work. That's what I'm focusing on right now. Michael Hingson  32:47 So is school pretty much full time for you these days? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  32:51 No, it's still part time, and that's what I like love about this program, because, like all week, you'll be doing 10 hours outside of so I still work full time as an administrator in the SHRS program, and I am the administrator for Rehabilitation Science. So yeah, it's great to have like, bosses and everything that support me in my educational journey, because that makes my life a lot easier too. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  33:26 Yeah, that's some great bosses. Michael Hingson  33:29 Well, it's good to have some people who tend to be a little bit more supportive. It helps the psyche when you get to do that. Yes, yeah. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  33:39 Because the one thing that I noticed with this program, it is definitely more manageable, because, like the undergrad program, I did enjoy the process. For most parts, some of it was really challenging. But the undergraduate program, it was really hard for me to get late night classes. Most of those classes that I had to take were I had to be in person, so like late classes were pretty hard to get, but my bosses allowed me to take earlier classes so I could help finish the program faster, but I just had to make up that time. Right? Michael Hingson  34:28 When did you discover that you had artistic talent? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  34:32 Um, I don't know if I ever really discovered that I had the talent, but I was very passionate at a young age, like when my mom was going back to school, I always loved watching her paint, because she had like the painting classes. I always thought so I like sit on the floor and watch her paint. And at a very young age, I was in the dance class. Do you remember the name? A France Dance School of Dance, France School of Dance. And I love dance class so much. I remember one time the dance school was closed because of a holiday, and I was, like, so upset, like, I didn't believe, like, the dance school was closed and I didn't understand, like, why I wasn't allowed to go. So they called the school and it went straight to, like, the answering machine so they could prove, like, it was closed and nobody was there. I was like, ready to show up. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  35:30 She wanted to go, yeah. She was just about three or four when she was taking the dance classes at that time. Yeah. But then it became on, you know that they both the kids were involved, but I couldn't afford it anymore. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  35:45 So dance is very expensive. Yeah? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  35:48 Well, you know, like, at that time too, I was going to school, and I didn't have much of a salary, and I was living with my parents, so, I mean, and they were retired, so it was, like, very tight. Yeah, right. Michael Hingson  36:04 Well, it nice to have an enthusiastic student, you know, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  36:13 so true. Well, Michael Hingson  36:15 so you've created the many colors of Natalie blog, tell me about that. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  36:22 So I reach out to different artists that were that are located in Pittsburgh or at one time, working or living in Pittsburgh. So this is like musicians, photographers, actors and they, I I create questions for them, for them to answer in their own words, like advice that they would give, or funny stories that they had while working in the field. And that's that's the main point of the blog, because I want it to be a resource for people and for them to also see, like, why that genre is cool. And I think another reason that motivated me to create that blog is some people just don't see an importance to art, and I find that so offensive. Like, yeah, so I just wanted it to be as an educational type thing as well. Michael Hingson  37:28 How long has the blog been visible? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  37:33 So it's been visible for about five, six years now, five years, yeah, and I did over like 50 some posts. Michael Hingson  37:45 Do you do that with consistency? Or So do you have one, like, every week or every three weeks, or every month, or something like that? Or how does that work? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  37:53 So when I first started, I was consistent with the posts I don't ever leave my blog, like, not active for like a year. Like, I always try to post something, but it's a little more challenging to do a post. Like, every month, whenever I'm working, going to school, volunteering for different things, running the Etsy shopper, vending so I had to cut it back a little bit because that is just me running it. Michael Hingson  38:30 So you've also created a mixed media piece. First of all, what is a mixed media piece? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  38:35 You want to explain Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  38:36 the mixed media? Oh, well, a mixed media is like different mediums. It could be paint, it could be pictures, and it's posted on a board, a canvas, or whatever it can be in a journal. You know, you just use various types of mediums. It could be using lace, it could be using fabric, it could be using, like I said, pictures, paper, and they call it mixed media. So she decided she wanted to create a mixed media. I had a huge canvas that was given to me. It was like 36 by 36 giant. It was huge, and I knew I couldn't do anything on that, because I don't paint big. I like to paint on smaller canvas, like an eight and a half by 11, or eight and a half by 14. So she, she decided she wanted to use that Canvas for something. But you go ahead and tell them. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  39:38 So, um, whenever Woodstock had their 50th anniversary, and I believe that was around 2019 I had the opportunity to go to yaska's Farm and camp where the original campers from the very first Woodstock would stay in that. Campsite was like, right next to this yaska farms. So I took some pictures of it, like me with the yaska farm house. And so it was very inspirational to go to that because I was doing research on what Woodstock was, the original Woodstock. And what that was about, I talked to Uber drivers that were actually at the original Woodstock. Jimi Hendrix is one of my favorite musicians, and for him to not be there, I was like, so sad. Very sad. So with all the education experience. I needed to release that. And I took my mom, let me have that canvas, and like I created a mixed media giant collage, and I got that into the Woodstock Museum in Socrates, New York. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:01 Wow, it's actually there now, Michael Hingson  41:04 yep. How long has it been there? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:07 I believe got that in there? Yeah, about two years. Michael Hingson  41:13 Wow. So it's kind of almost a permanent piece there. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:17 I hope so. I hope they keep it there for sure. What? Michael Hingson  41:21 What prompted them to be interested in having it there. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  41:25 So I that piece was so giant, and I loved how it turned out, and I wanted that more than just in my house, my art pieces are very close to me, because that's like my soul and my work, and I want it out there to somebody who cares about it. So I reached out to Shelly nation, Nathan, because they, I believe, are the owners of the Woodstock Museum, and they were more than happy to have it. I had it shipped out there. And then, whenever the season was to reopen the museum, I went out there and visited it. And it's a very great it's a very cool place. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:10 Recommend, yeah, she, she was interviewed by them, also, right? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:14 Oh, yeah, we did go on a radio station. And that was also a cool experience, because I was never on a radio show at that time. Cool. Michael Hingson  42:25 Well, that's pretty exciting. I have not been to the Woodstock Museum, so that might be something to explore at some point when I get get back there next that'd Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:35 be great. Yeah, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  42:37 all those things like, you know, like I grew up during that period, of course, I didn't go to the Woodstock. Original Woodstock wouldn't let me do that. I was only 16 at the time, and but I mean, you know, like, like looking back at that and and seeing how all those people were there, and not nothing terrible happened, you know, I mean, hundreds of 1000s of people, and nobody got hurt. Well, they might have passed out, maybe from things, but nobody was, like, shot or killed or and like today. I mean, you can't you're so afraid to do anything today, you don't know what's going to happen. And it just was a different time. And the musicians that were there. I mean, that music was is still good today. You know, it's it, it hasn't faded. And I wonder sometimes about today's music, if it will continue to be popular in years to come, or if it's just going to fade out. You know, we won't know that, and so well I won't be here, probably Michael Hingson  43:44 we won't know for a while anyway, yes, but I did hear on a radio station a rebroadcast of a lot of the Woodstock concerts that was kind of Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  43:56 fun. Yes, yes. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  44:00 Sorry I didn't mean to cut you. Go ahead. Go ahead. When I was talking to like the Uber drivers and stuff like that, and people who were at the original Woodstock, it seems like they were reliving that experience when they were telling the stories. I mean, it was great. Michael Hingson  44:15 Yeah. Well, you play creative percussion. First of all, what is pre creative percussion? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  44:23 So I actually have that written in some notes, what it actually is. So do you mind if I read off my notes? Michael Hingson  44:30 You're welcome to however you want to answer, perfect. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  44:33 So I was asked to be a creative percussion artist in 2020 and creative percussion is a family owned business established in 2018 and run by husband and wife team, Kevin and Sherry Feeney. They're great. I've had the opportunity to talk to them very much a couple of times, and my pictures also on the site. Um. Uh, under like my stage name now is a Bulla. So if you scroll down spell that it's S, E, B as a boy, u as in unicorn, L, L as in Len and a is an apple. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  45:16 Okay, what types of things, kinds Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  45:18 of there's various types of shakers that I played because of various bands that I was in, I was the percussionist, so I played tambourine and stuff. But like, they have uniquely shaped shakers, like there's the hatch shakers, which I love them. They had a baseball shaker, and these little golf ball shakers, and they all carry different sounds, and they really blended differently with the type of song that I was playing was playing, yeah, so it's cool, Michael Hingson  45:53 yeah, so interesting. So you you play them as part of being with a band, or what Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  46:01 for the most part, yeah, sometimes there was an acoustic band or just like a full band, and either way, I tried to have those pieces blend into the song. What I didn't learn when I was doing that is and an acoustic you really have to be on your game, because, like, if you mess up, like, people are gonna hear it more than if you're in a full band. So, yeah, right. Michael Hingson  46:38 So you do you still do that? Do you still play Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  46:42 at this time? I don't, um, just because I wanted to focus on other things, so I took a step back from that. Michael Hingson  46:51 Do you think you'll do more of it in the future, or Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  46:56 possibly, but like, that's how I am. I kind of just like, experience it, do it until I'm ready to move on to something else. Michael Hingson  47:04 So you flit, you flip from thing to thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  47:10 So, like, if you ever follow me, you might just see, like, me evolving and just trying other things. Michael Hingson  47:19 Well, you're adventurous. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  47:22 Yes, I love adventure. Michael Hingson  47:25 Nothing wrong with having an adventure in the world and getting to really look at things. So what are you doing now if you're not doing creative percussion and so on? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  47:38 Well, for the last couple months, I was helping my mom recover from like the back surgery. And then I was I was focusing on my blog, just really paying attention to that, getting certain interviews, and then schooling, getting ready to go into the certificate program. Michael Hingson  48:05 So you think you're gonna go ahead Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  48:09 and I'm setting up the Etsy shop. Michael Hingson  48:13 So you're pretty excited about seal, the sports entertainment, art and law. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  48:19 Yes, I'm very excited about that. I was very excited to get into the program. The professors are great. The whole programs like really good. The people involved in it, they seemed, they seem really organized and let me know what I need to do to get into the program. And they are really nice. If I have a question, they're happy to answer it. I love the curriculum, so I hope you go, Well, Michael Hingson  48:46 do you experience anything any more dealing with like attention deficit? Oh, 100% it still creeps up, huh? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  48:55 Well, it's more anxiety than anything. But like this program, I think, is to help calm my anxiety with just different things that are set up. And like, how responsive the professors are and how nice they are. But my goodness, when I was in my undergraduate program, like I was really pushing myself, and I would like, of like, when 2020, came around in the pandemic, I needed to talk to my doctor and get on meds, like I could no longer not do that without meds. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  49:29 Yes, she was, she was struggling. It was tough. Yeah. I mean, when I went for my Bachelor's, I I I wasn't working. She was working. When I went for my master's, I was working, but, and I know how hard that is, you know, trying to balance things, especially I was working at equitable at the time, and the things that I was going through and being, you know, filling in for supervisors was I. I was on call, like, 24 hours a day, and it, you know, like that was, I can see how difficult it is to do both. It's just, I know what she was going through there, and she goes through it, but she did well. She graduated sigma, sigma cum laude. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  50:17 Yeah, I did get some honorary, like accolades for like, whenever I graduated. So that was pretty exciting, because the hard work did pay off. Michael Hingson  50:29 What do you think about studying and attending classes virtually as opposed to physically being in the room? Hybrid learning? Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  50:38 Some people may have an issue with that, but I personally, cause I was working full time and it was hard for me to get later classes, I preferred the online learning, but I understand, like some of the classes really did need me to be there, like the theater classes, and I was okay with that. I don't mind either, either or, but it just seems like online learning is more manageable. For me, it Michael Hingson  51:08 takes more discipline to to stick with it and focus on it, as opposed to being in the classroom. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  51:14 Um, yeah, I agree, but I think which, which is not a negative thing, by the way. Oh, yeah, no, no, no, I totally understand, but I think, um, I forget what I was going with that. Michael Hingson  51:26 Sorry. Well, we were talking about the fact that more discipline dealing with, Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  51:33 Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right, thank you. It's just, um, I think if you truly want it, you're gonna put forth the effort in anything. You know, it's may not always be enjoyable, but like, if you want it, you'll put through it. You'll push through it, like with high school, my mom knows, just like from elementary to high school, like that curriculum, I was just not feeling it, but I knew I had to stick it out. I wanted to be a high school dropout. I voiced that many of times, but like, I knew if I wanted to get to culinary school, I had to really focus on my academics through then and just try to push through and just do it, do what I had to do to graduate. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  52:19 Yeah, it's such a different environment to high school, I believe, you know, like I found that I really enjoyed college. I enjoyed my subjects. They went fast. The classes went fast. It was fast paced, but it was an I learned more. I you know, I think that slowness of the way that they do things in in the high school, it takes them like three weeks to get through one chapter, you know, and so it, it just, it just made it a big difference. And I, I wished I could continue to go to school. I think I was a really good student. Michael Hingson  52:59 I think one of the things about college is, and I've talked to several people who agree, is, you certainly learn from the courses that you take, but College offers so much more with with with the extracurricular activities, with the interaction with people, with The greater responsibility. College offers so many more life lessons if you take advantage of it, that really makes it cool. And I, I always enjoyed college. I liked it a lot. Natalie Belin & Mary Dunn  53:29 Yeah, yeah, I did too, I think with some of my challenges and frustrations, not only with my learning disability, but like the fact that

National Federation of Independent Business Bureau reports that in December, a seasonally adjusted net 31% of small businesses reports raising compensation. That's up five points from November and a seasonally adjusted net 24% plan to raise compensation in the next three months even further, and that's unchanged from November. Moreover, the latest report from the NFIB also finds that US small companies continue to report more job openings. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In episode 148 of White Canes Connect, we share the powerful General Sessions remarks of David DeNotaris from the 2025 National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania State Convention in Harrisburg.  Speaking from a lifetime of experience, David reflects on growing up with Braille, discovering the Federation, and the profound influence of Dr. Kenneth Jernigan on his understanding of blindness and self-respect. Through humor and deeply personal stories, he explores what it truly means to believe that it is respectable to be blind—and how that belief unlocks confidence in using Braille, mobility tools, technology, and advocacy skills without apology.  David also recounts a pivotal advocacy victory that demonstrates the real-world impact of collective action and organized effort. His message is both a challenge and an invitation: get involved, stay involved, and believe in one another. This episode is a reminder that when blind people work together, barriers fall, opportunities expand, and lives are changed. Show notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/148          Connect with David DeNotaris Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/david.denotaris LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-de-notaris-237b476/  Sky's the Limit Communications on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/877.TAP.HOPE. Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. We Want to Hear Your Story Reach out with questions and comments, or share ideas! We want to hear from you. Call us at (267) 338-4495 or at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.

What if the toughest moments in your life were preparing you to lead better, serve deeper, and live with more purpose? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Greg Hess, known to many as Coach Hess, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, resilience, trust, and what it really means to help others grow. Greg shares lessons shaped by a lifetime of coaching athletes, leading business teams, surviving pancreatic cancer, and building companies rooted in service and inclusion. We talk about why humor matters, how trust is built in real life, and why great leaders stop focusing on control and start focusing on growth. Along the way, Greg reflects on teamwork, diversity, vision, and the mindset shifts that turn adversity into opportunity. I believe you will find this conversation practical, honest, and deeply encouraging. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear how Greg Hess's early life and love of sports shaped his leadership values. 04:04 – Learn why humor and laughter are essential tools for reducing stress and building connection. 11:59 – Discover how chasing the right learning curve redirected Greg's career path. 18:27 – Understand how a pancreatic cancer diagnosis reshaped Greg's purpose and priorities. 31:32 – Hear how reframing adversity builds lasting resilience. 56:22 – Learn the mindset shift leaders need to grow people and strengthen teams. About the Guest: Amazon Best-Selling Author | Award-Winning Business Coach | Voted Best Coach in Katy, TX Greg Hess—widely known as Coach Hess—is a celebrated mentor, author, and leader whose journey from athletic excellence to business mastery spans decades and continents. A graduate of the University of Calgary (1978), he captained the basketball team, earned All-Conference honors, and later competed against legends like John Stockton and Dennis Rodman. His coaching career began in the high school ranks and evolved to the collegiate level, where he led programs with distinction and managed high-profile events like Magic Johnson's basketball camps. During this time, he also earned his MBA from California Lutheran University in just 18 months. Transitioning from sports to business in the early '90s, Coach Hess embarked on a solo bicycle tour from Jasper, Alberta to Thousand Oaks, California—symbolizing a personal and professional reinvention. He went on to lead teams and divisions across multiple industries, ultimately becoming Chief Advisor for Cloud Services at Halliburton. Despite his corporate success, he was always “Coach” at heart—known for inspiring teams, shaping strategy, and unlocking human potential. In 2015, a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer became a pivotal moment. Surviving and recovering from the disease renewed his commitment to purpose. He left the corporate world to build the Coach Hess brand—dedicated to transforming lives through coaching. Today, Coach Hess is recognized as a Best Coach in Katy, TX and an Amazon Best-Selling Author, known for helping entrepreneurs, professionals, and teams achieve breakthrough results. Coach Hess is the author of: Peak Experiences Breaking the Business Code Achieving Peak Performance: The Entrepreneur's Journey He resides in Houston, Texas with his wife Karen and continues to empower clients across the globe through one-on-one coaching, strategic planning workshops, and his Empower Your Team program. Ways to connect with Greg**:** Email:  coach@coachhess.comWebsite: www.CoachHess.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachhess Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CoachHessSuccess Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachhess_official/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone. I am Michael Hinkson. Your host for unstoppable mindset. And today we get to enter, well, I won't say interview, because it's really more of a conversation. We get to have a conversation with Greg. Hess better known as coach Hess and we'll have to learn more about that, but he has accomplished a lot in the world over the past 70 or so years. He's a best selling author. He's a business coach. He's done a number of things. He's managed magic Johnson's basketball camps, and, my gosh, I don't know what all, but he does, and he's going to tell us. So Coach, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad that we have a chance to be with you today. Greg Hess  02:07 I'm honored to be here. Michael, thank you very much, and it's just a pleasure to be a part of your program and the unstoppable mindset. Thank you for having me. Michael Hingson  02:17 Well, we're glad you're here and looking forward to having a lot of fun. Why don't we start? I love to start with tell us about kind of the early Greg growing up and all that stuff. Greg Hess  02:30 Oh boy, yeah, I was awfully fortunate, I think, to have a couple of parents that were paying attention to me, I guess. You know, as I grew up, at the same time they were growing up my my father was a Marine returned from the Korean War, and I was born shortly after that, and he worked for Westinghouse Electric as a nuclear engineer. We lived in Southern California for a while, but I was pretty much raised in Idaho, small town called Pocatello, Idaho, and Idaho State Universities there and I, I found a love for sports. I was, you know, again, I was very fortunate to be able to be kind of coordinated and do well with baseball, football, basketball, of course, with the sports that we tend to do. But yeah, I had a lot of fun doing that and growing up, you know, under a, you know, the son of a Marine is kind of like being the son of a Marine. I guess, in a way, there was certain ways you had to function and, you know, and morals and values that you carried forward and pride and doing good work that I learned through, through my youth. And so, you know, right, being raised in Idaho was a real great experience. How so well, a very open space. I mean, in those days, you know, we see kids today and kids being brought up. I think one of the things that often is missing, that was not missing for me as a youth, is that we would get together as a group in the neighborhood, and we'd figure out the rules of the game. We'd figure out whatever we were playing, whether it was basketball or, you know, kick the can or you name it, but we would organize ourselves and have a great time doing that as a community in our neighborhood, and as kids, we learn to be leaders and kind of organize ourselves. Today, that is not the case. And so I think so many kids are built into, you know, the parents are helicopter, and all the kids to all the events and non stop going, going, going. And I think we're losing that leadership potential of just organizing and planning a little bit which I was fortunate to have that experience, and I think it had a big influence on how I grew up and built built into the leader that I believe I am today. Michael Hingson  04:52 I had a conversation with someone earlier today on another podcast episode, and one of the observations. Sense that he made is that we don't laugh at ourselves today. We don't have humor today. Everything is taken so seriously we don't laugh, and the result of that is that we become very stressed out. Greg Hess  05:15 Yeah, well, if you can't laugh at yourself, you know, but as far as I know, you've got a large background in your sales world and so on. But I found that in working with people, to to get them to be clients or to be a part of my world, is that if they can laugh with me, or I can laugh with them, or we can get them laughing, there's a high tendency of conversion and them wanting to work with you. There's just something about relationships and be able to laugh with people. I think that draw us closer in a different way, and I agree it's missing. How do we make that happen more often? Tell more jokes or what? Michael Hingson  05:51 Well, one of the things that he suggests, and he's a coach, a business coach, also he he tells people, turn off the TV, unplug your phone, go read a book. And he said, especially, go buy a joke book. Just find some ways to make yourself laugh. And he spends a lot of time talking to people about humor and laughter. And the whole idea is to deal with getting rid of stress, and if you can laugh, you're going to be a whole lot less stressful. Greg Hess  06:23 There's something that you just feel so good after a good laugh, you know, I mean, guy, I feel that way sometimes after a good cry. You know, when I'm I tend to, you know, like Bambi comes on, and I know what happens to that little fawn, or whatever, the mother and I can't, you know, but cry during the credits. What's up with that? Michael Hingson  06:45 Well, and my wife was a teacher. My late wife was a teacher for 10 years, and she read Old Yeller. And eventually it got to the point where she had to have somebody else read the part of the book where, where yeller gets killed. Oh, yeah. Remember that book? Well, I do too. I like it was a great it's a great book and a great movie. Well, you know, talk about humor, and I think it's really important that we laugh at ourselves, too. And you mentioned Westinghouse, I have a Westinghouse story, so I'll tell it. I sold a lot of products to Westinghouse, and one day I was getting ready to travel back there, the first time I went back to meet the folks in Pittsburgh, and I had also received an order, and they said this order has to be here. It's got to get it's urgent, so we did all the right things. And I even went out to the loading dock the day before I left for Westinghouse, because that was the day it was supposed to ship. And I even touched the boxes, and the shipping guy said, these are them. They're labeled. They're ready to go. So I left the next morning, went to Westinghouse, and the following day, I met the people who I had worked with over the years, and I had even told them I saw the I saw the pack, the packages on the dock, and when they didn't come in, and I was on an airplane, so I didn't Know this. They called and they spoke to somebody else at at the company, and they said the boxes aren't here, and they're supposed to be here, and and she's in, the lady said, I'll check on it. And they said, Well, Mike said he saw him on the dock, and she burst out laughing because she knew. And they said, What are you laughing at? And he said, he saw him on the dock. You know, he's blind, don't you? And so when I got there, when I got there, they had and it wasn't fun, but, well, not totally, because what happened was that the President decided to intercept the boxes and send it to somebody else who he thought was more important, more important than Westinghouse. I have a problem with that. But anyway, so they shipped out, and they got there the day I arrived, so they had arrived a day late. Well, that was okay, but of course, they lectured me, you didn't see him on the dock. I said, No, no, no, you don't understand, and this is what you have to think about. Yeah, I didn't tell you I was blind. Why should I the definition of to see in the dictionary is to perceive you don't have to use your eyes to see things. You know, that's the problem with you. Light dependent people. You got to see everything with your eyes. Well, I don't have to, and they were on the dock, and anyway, we had a lot of fun with it, but I have, but you got to have humor, and we've got to not take things so seriously. I agree with what we talked about earlier, with with this other guest. It's it really is important to to not take life so seriously that you can't have some fun. And I agree that. There are serious times, but still, you got to have fun. Greg Hess  10:02 Yeah, no kidding. Well, I've got a short story for you. Maybe it fits in with that. That one of the things I did when I I'll give a little background on this. I, I was a basketball coach and school teacher for 14 years, and had an opportunity to take over an assistant coach job at California Lutheran University. And I was able to choose whatever I wanted to in terms of doing graduate work. And so I said, you know, and I'd always been a bike rider. So I decided to ride my bike from up from Jasper, Alberta, all the way down to 1000 Oaks California on a solo bike ride, which was going to be a big event, but I wanted to think about what I really wanted to do. And, you know, I loved riding, and I thought was a good time to do that tour, so I did it. And so I'm riding down the coast, and once I got into California, there's a bunch of big redwoods there and so on, yeah, and I had, I set up my camp. You know, every night I camped out. I was totally solo. I didn't have any support, and so I put up my tent and everything. And here a guy came in, big, tall guy, a German guy, and he had ski poles sticking out of the back of his backpack, you know, he set up camp, and we're talking that evening. And I had, you know, sitting around the fire. I said, Look, his name was Axel. I said, Hey, Axel, what's up with the ski poles? And he says, Well, I was up in Alaska and, you know, and I was climbing around in glaciers or whatever, and when I started to ride here, they're pretty light. I just take them with me. And I'm thinking, that's crazy. I mean, you're thinking every ounce, every ounce matters when you're riding those long distances. Anyway, the story goes on. Next morning, I get on my bike, and I head down the road, and, you know, I go for a day, I don't see sea axle or anything, but the next morning, I'm can't stop at a place around Modesto California, something, whether a cafe, and I'm sitting in the cafe, and there's, probably, it's a place where a lot of cyclists hang out. So there was, like, 20 or 30 cycles leaning against the building, and I showed up with, you know, kind of a bit of an anomaly. I'd ridden a long time, probably 1500 miles or so at that point in 15 days, and these people were all kind of talking to me and so on. Well, then all sudden, I look up why I'm eating breakfast, and here goes the ski poles down the road. And I went, Oh my gosh, that's got to be him. So I jump up out of my chair, and I run out, and I yell, hey Axel. Hey Axel, loud as I could. And he stops and starts coming back. And then I look back at the cafe, and all these people have their faces up on the windows, kind of looking like, oh, what's going to happen? And they thought that I was saying, mistakenly, Hey, asshole, oh gosh, Michael Hingson  12:46 well, hopefully you straighten that out somehow. Immediately. Greg Hess  12:50 We had a great time and a nice breakfast and moved on. But what an experience. Yeah, sometimes we cross up on our communications. People don't quite get what's going on, they're taking things too seriously, maybe, huh? Michael Hingson  13:03 Oh, yeah, we always, sometimes hear what we want to hear. Well, so what did you get your college degree in? Greg Hess  13:10 Originally? My first Yeah, well, I'd love the question my first degree. I had a bachelor of education for years, but then I went on, and then I had my choice here of graduate work, right? And, you know, I looked at education, I thought, gosh, you know, if I answered committee on every test, I'll probably pass. I said, I need something more than this. So I in the bike ride, what I what I came to a conclusion was that the command line being DOS command line was the way we were computing. Yeah, that time in the 90s, we were moving into something we call graphical user interface, of course, now it's the way we live in so many ways. And I thought, you know, that's the curve. I'm going to chase that. And so I did an MBA in business process re engineering at Cal Lu, and knocked that off in 18 months, where I had a lot of great experiences learning, you know, being an assistant coach, and got to do some of magic Johnson's camps for him while I was there, California. Lutheran University's campus is where the Cowboys used to do their training camp, right? So they had very nice facilities, and so putting on camps like that and stuff were a good thing. And fairly close to the LA scene, of course, 1000 Oaks, right? You know that area? Michael Hingson  14:25 Oh, I do, yeah, I do. I do pretty well, yeah. So, so you, you, you're always involved in doing coaching. That was just one of the things. When you started to get involved in sports, in addition to playing them, you found that coaching was a useful thing for you to do. Absolutely. Greg Hess  14:45 I loved it. I loved the game. I love to see people grow. And yeah, it was just a thrill to be a part of it. I got published a few times, and some of the things that I did within it, but it was mostly. Right, being able to change a community. Let me share this with you. When I went to West Lake Village High School, this was a very, very wealthy area, I had, like Frankie avalon's kid in my class and stuff. And, you know, I'm riding bike every day, so these kids are driving up in Mercedes and BMW parking lot. And as I looked around the school and saw and we build a basketball and I needed to build more pride, I think in the in the community, I felt was important part of me as the head coach, they kind of think that the head coach of their basketball program, I think, is more important than the mayor. I never could figure that one out, but that was where I was Michael Hingson  15:37 spend some time in North Carolina, around Raleigh, Durham, you'll understand, Greg Hess  15:41 yeah, yeah, I get that. So Kentucky, yeah, yeah, yeah, big basketball places, yeah. So what I concluded, and I'd worked before in building, working with Special Olympics, and I thought, You know what we can do with this school, is we can have a special olympics tournament, because I got to know the people in LA County that were running, especially in Ventura County, and we brought them together, and we ran a tournament, and we had a tournament of, I don't know, maybe 24 teams in total. It was a big deal, and it was really great to get the community together, because part of my program was that I kind of expected everybody, you know, pretty strong expectation, so to say, of 20 hours of community service. If you're in our basketball program, you got to have some way, whether it's with your church or whatever, I want to recognize that you're you're out there doing something for the community. And of course, I set this Special Olympics event up so that everybody had the opportunity to do that. And what a change it made on the community. What a change it made on the school. Yeah, it was great for the Special Olympians, and then they had a blast. But it was the kids that now were part of our program, the athletes that had special skills, so to say, in their world, all of a sudden realized that the world was a different place, and it made a big difference in the community. People supported us in a different way. I was just really proud to have that as kind of a feather in my calf for being there and recognizing that and doing it was great. Michael Hingson  17:08 So cool. And now, where are you now? I'm in West Houston. That's right, you're in Houston now. So yeah, Katie, Texas area. Yeah, you've moved around well, so you, you started coaching. And how long did you? Did you do that? Greg Hess  17:30 Well, I coached for 14 years in basketball, right? And then I went into business after I graduated my MBA, and I chased the learning curve. Michael, of that learning curve I talked about a few minutes ago. You know, it was the graphical user interface and the compute and how all that was going to affect us going forward. And I continued to chase that learning curve, and had all kinds of roles and positions in the process, and they paid me a little more money as I went along. It was great. Ended up being the chief advisor for cloud services at Halliburton. Yeah, so I was an upstream guy, if you know that, I mean seismic data, and where we're storing seismic data now, the transition was going, I'm not putting that in the cloud. You kidding me? That proprietary data? Of course, today we know how we exist, but in those days, we had to, you know, build little separate silos to carry the data and deliver it accordingly for the geophysicists and people to make the decision on the drill bit. So we did really well at that in that role. Or I did really well and the team that I had just what did fantastic. You know, I was real proud I just got when I was having my 70th birthday party, I invited one of the individuals on that team, guy named Will Rivera. And will ended up going to Google after he'd worked us in there. I talked him into, or kind of convinced him so to say, or pushed him, however you do that in coaching. Coached him into getting an MBA, and then he's gone on and he tells me, You better be sitting down, coach. When he talked to him a couple days ago, I just got my PhD from George Washington University in AI technology, and I just turned inside out with happiness. It was so thrilling to hear that you know somebody you'd worked with. But while I was at Halliburton, I got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, Michael, and so that's what changed me into where I am today, as a transition and transformation. Michael Hingson  19:21 Well, how did that happen? Because I know usually people say pancreatic cancer is pretty undetectable. How did it happen that you were fortunate enough to get it diagnosed? It obviously, what might have been a somewhat early age or early early Greg Hess  19:35 time, kind of a miracle, I guess. You know. I mean, I was traveling to my niece's high school graduation in Helena, Montana. And when we were returning back to Houston, we flew through Denver, and I was suffering from some very serious a fib. Was going up 200 beats a minute, and, you know, down to 100 and it was, it was all. Over the place. And I got the plane. I wasn't feeling well, of course, and they put me on a gurney. And next thing you know, I'm on the way the hospital. And, you know, they were getting ready for an embolotic, nimbalism potential, those type of things. And, and I went to the hospital, they're testing everything out, getting, you know, saying, Well, before we put your put the shock paddles on your on your heart to get back, we better do a CAT scan. And so they CAT scan me, and came back from the CAT scan and said, Well, you know what, there's no blood clot issues, but this mass in your pancreas is a concern. And so that was the discovery of that. And 14 days from that point, I had had surgery. And you know, there was no guarantees even at that point, even though we, you know, we knew we were early that, you know, I had to get things in order. And I was told to put things in order, a little bit going into it. But miracles upon miracles, they got it all. I came away with a drainage situation where they drained my pancreas for almost six months. It was a terrible pancreatic fluids, not good stuff. It really eats up your skin, and it was bad news. But here I am, you know, and when I came away from that, a lot of people thought I was going to die because I heard pancreatic cancer, and I got messages from people that were absolutely powerful in the difference I'd made in their life by being a coach and a mentor and helping them along in their life, and I realized that the big guy upstairs saved me for a reason, and I made my put my stake in the ground, and said, You know what? I'm going to do this the best I can, and that's what I've been doing for the last eight years. Michael Hingson  21:32 So what caused the afib? Greg Hess  21:35 Yeah, not sure. Okay, so when they came, I became the clipboard kid a little bit, you know. Because what the assumption was is that as soon as I came out of surgery, and they took this tumor out of me, because I was in a fib, throughout all of surgery, AFib went away. And they're thinking now, the stress of a tumor could be based on the, you know, it's a stress disease, or so on the a fib, there could be high correlation. And so they started looking into that, and I think they still are. But you know, if you got a fib, maybe we should look for tumors somewhere else is the potential they were thinking. And, yeah, that, Michael Hingson  22:14 but removing the tumor, when you tumor was removed, the AFib went away. Yeah, wow, Greg Hess  22:22 yeah, disappeared. Wow, yeah. Michael Hingson  22:26 I had someone who came on the podcast some time ago, and he had a an interesting story. He was at a bar one night. Everything was fine, and suddenly he had this incredible pain down in his his testicles. Actually went to the hospital to discover that he had very serious prostate cancer, and had no clue that that was even in the system until the pain and and so. But even so, they got it early enough that, or was in such a place where they got it and he's fine. Greg Hess  23:07 Wow, whoa. Well, stuff they do with medicine these days, the heart and everything else. I mean, it's just fantastic. I I recently got a new hip put in, and it's been like a new lease on life for me. Michael, I am, I'm golfing like I did 10 years ago, and I'm, you know, able to ride my bike and not limp around, you know, and with just pain every time I stepped and it's just so fantastic. I'm so grateful for that technology and what they can do with that. Michael Hingson  23:36 Well, I went through heart valve replacement earlier this year, and I had had a physical 20 years ago or or more, and they, they said, as part of it, we did an EKG or an echo cardiogram. And he said, You got a slightly leaky heart valve. It may never amount to anything, but it might well. It finally did, apparently. And so we went in and they, they orthoscopically went in and they replaced the valve. So it was really cool. It took an hour, and we were all done, no open heart surgery or anything, which was great. And, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I feel a whole lot better Greg Hess  24:13 that you do does a lot. Yeah, it's fantastic. Well, making that commitment to coaching was a big deal for me, but, you know, it, it's brought me more joy and happiness. And, you know, I just, I'll share with you in terms of the why situation for me. When I came away from that, I started thinking about, why am I, kind of, you know, a lot of what's behind what you're what you're doing, and what brings you joy? And I went back to when I was eight years old. I remember dribbling the ball down the basketball court, making a fake, threw a pass over to one of my buddies. They scored the layup, and we won the game. That moment, at that time, passing and being a part of sharing with someone else, and growing as a group, and kind of feeling a joy, is what I continued to probably for. To all my life. You know, you think about success, and it's how much money you make and how much this and whatever else we were in certain points of our life. I look back on all this and go, you know, when I had real happiness, and what mattered to me is when I was bringing joy to others by giving assist in whatever. And so I'm at home now, and it's a shame I didn't understand that at 60 until I was 62 years old, but I'm very focused, and I know that's what brings me joy, so that's what I like to do, and that's what I do. Michael Hingson  25:30 I know for me, I have the honor and the joy of being a speaker and traveling to so many places and speaking and so on. And one of the things that I tell people, and I'm sure they don't believe it until they experience it for themselves, is this isn't about me. I'm not in it for me. I am in it to help you to do what I can to make your event better. When I travel somewhere to speak, I'm a guest, and my job is to make your life as easy as possible and not complicated. And I'm I know that there are a lot of people who don't necessarily buy that, until it actually happens. And I go there and and it all goes very successfully, but people, you know today, were so cynical about so many things, it's just hard to convince people. Greg Hess  26:18 Yeah, yeah. Well, I know you're speaking over 100 times a year these days. I think that's that's a lot of work, a lot of getting around Michael Hingson  26:27 it's fun to speak, so I enjoy it. Well, how did you get involved in doing things like managing the Magic Johnson camps? Greg Hess  26:37 Well, because I was doing my MBA and I was part of the basketball program at Cal Lu, you know, working under Mike Dunlap. It just he needed a little bit of organization on how to do the business management side of it. And I got involved with that. I had a lunch with magic, and then it was, well, gee, why don't you help us coordinate all our camps or all our station work? And so I was fortunate enough to be able to do that for him. I'll just share a couple things from that that I remember really well. One of the things that magic just kind of, I don't know, patted me on the back, like I'm a superstar in a way. And you remember that from a guy like magic, I put everybody's name on the side of their shoe when they register. Have 100 kids in the camp, but everybody's name is on the right side of their shoe. And magic saw that, and he realized being a leader, that he is, that he could use his name and working, you know, their name by looking there, how powerful that was for him to be more connected in which he wants to be. That's the kind of guy he was. So that was one thing, just the idea of name. Now, obviously, as a teacher, I've always kind of done the name thing, and I know that's important, but, you know, I second thing that's really cool with the magic camp is that the idea of camaraderie and kind of tradition and bringing things together every morning we'd be sitting in the gym, magic could do a little story, you know, kind of tell everybody something that would inspire him, you know, from his past and so on. But each group had their own sound off. Michael, so if he pointed at your group, it would be like, or whatever it was. Each group had a different type of sound, and every once in a while we'd use it and point it kind of be a motivator. And I never really put two and two together until the last day of the camp on Friday. Magic says, When I point to your group, make your sound. And so he starts pointing to all the different groups. And it turns out to be Michigan State Spartans fight song to the tee. Figured that out. It was just fantastic. It gives me chills just telling you about it now, remembering how powerful was when everybody kind of came together. Now, you being a speaker, I'm sure you felt those things when you bring everybody together, and it all hits hard, but that was, that was one I remember. Michael Hingson  28:50 Well, wow, that's pretty funny, cute, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, he has always been a leader, and it's very clear that he was, and I remember the days it was Magic Johnson versus Larry Bird. Greg Hess  29:10 Yeah, yeah. Well, when he came to LA you know, they had Kareem and Byron Scott, a whole bunch of senior players, and he came in as a 19 year old rookie, and by the end of that year, he was leading that team. Yeah, he was the guy driving the ship all the time, and he loved to give those assists. He was a great guy for that. Michael Hingson  29:30 And that's really the issue, is that as a as a real leader, it wasn't all about him at all. It was about how he could enhance the team. And I've always felt that way. And I you know, when I hire people, I always told them, I figure you convince me that you can do the job that I hired you to do. I'm not going to be your boss and boss you around. What I want to do is to work with you and figure out how the talents that I have can complement the talents that you have so that we can. Enhance and make you more successful than you otherwise would be. Some people got it, and unfortunately, all too many people didn't, and they ended up not being nearly as successful. But the people who got it and who I had the joy to work with and really enhance what they did, and obviously they helped me as well, but we they were more successful, and that was what was really important. Greg Hess  30:24 Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. It's not about controlling, about growing. I mean, people grow, grow, grow, and, you know, helping them certainly. There's a reason. There's no I in team, right? And we've heard that in many times before. It's all about the group, group, pulling together. And what a lot of fun to have working in all throughout my life, in pulling teams together and seeing that happen. You know, one plus one equals three. I guess we call it synergy, that type of thinking, Michael Hingson  30:56 Yeah, well, you've faced a lot of adversity. Is, is the pancreatic cancer, maybe the answer to this, but what? What's a situation where you've really faced a lot of adversity and how it changed your life? You know you had to overcome major adversity, and you know what you learned from it? Greg Hess  31:16 Sure, I think being 100% honest and transparent. I'd say I went through a divorce in my life, and I think that was the most difficult thing I've gone through, you know, times where I'm talking to myself and being crazy and thinking stupid things and whatever. And I think the adversity that you learn and the resilience that you learn as you go, hey, I can move forward. I can go forward. And when you you see the light on the other side, and you start to create what's what's new and different for you, and be able to kind of leave the pain, but keep the happiness that connects from behind and go forward. I think that was a big part of that. But having resilience and transforming from whatever the event might be, obviously, pancreatic cancer, I talked about a transformation there. Anytime we kind of change things that I think the unstoppable mindset is really, you know what's within this program is about understanding that opportunities come from challenges. When we've got problems, we can turn them into opportunities. And so the adversity and the resilience that I think I'd like to try to learn and build and be a part of and helping people is taking what you see as a problem and changing your mindset into making it an opportunity. Michael Hingson  32:40 Yeah, yeah. Well, you've obviously had things that guided you. You had a good sense of vision and so on. And I talked a lot about, don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. But how's a good sense of vision guided you when necessarily the path wasn't totally obvious to you, have you had situations like that? Absolutely. Greg Hess  33:03 And I think the whole whole I write about it in my book in peak experiences, about having vision in terms of your future self, your future, think where you're going, visualize how that's going to happen. Certainly, as a basketball player, I would play the whole game before the game ever happened by visualizing it and getting it in my mind as to how it was going to happen. I do that with golf today. I'll look at every hole and I'll visualize what that vision is that I want to have in terms of getting it done. Now, when I have a vision where things kind of don't match up and I have to change that on the fly. Well, that's okay, you know that that's just part of life. And I think having resilience, because things don't always go your way, that's for sure. But the mindset you have around what happens when they don't go your way, you know, is big. My as a coach, as a business coach today, every one of my clients write a three, three month or 90 day plan every quarter that gets down to what their personal goal is, their must have goal. And then another kind of which is all about getting vision in place to start putting in actual tactical strategies to make all of that happen for the 90 day period. And that's a big part, I think, of kind of establishing the vision in you got to look in front of us what's going to happen, and we can control it if we have a good feel of it, you know, for ourselves, and get the lives and fulfillment we want out of life. I think, yeah, Michael Hingson  34:39 you've clearly been pretty resilient in a lot of ways, and you continue to exhibit it. What kinds of practices and processes have you developed that help you keep resilience personally and professionally? Greg Hess  34:54 I think one of them for sure is that I've I've lived a life where I've spent you. I'm going to say five out of seven days where I will do a serious type of workout. And right now bike riding. I'll ride several days a week, and, you know, get in 10 to 15 miles, not a lot, but, I mean, I've done but keeping the physical, physical being in the time, just to come down the time to think about what you're doing, and at the same time, for me, it's having a physical activity while I'm doing that, but it's a wind down time. I also do meditation. Every morning. I spend 15 minutes more or less doing affirmations associated to meditation, and that's really helped me get focused in my day. Basically, I look at my calendar and I have a little talk with every one of the things that are on my calendar about how I'm setting my day, you know? And that's my affirmation time. But yeah, those time things, I think report having habits that keep you resilient, and I think physical health has been important for me, and it's really helped me in a lot of ways at the same time, bringing my mind to, I think, accepting, in a transition of learning a little bit accepting the platinum rule, rather than the golden rule, I got to do unto others as they'd like to be treated by me. I don't need to treat people like they'd like to like I'd like to be treated. I need to treat them how they'd like to be treated by me, because they're not me, and I've had to learn that over time, better and better as I've got older. And how important that is? Michael Hingson  36:33 Well, yeah, undoubtedly, undoubtedly so. And I think that we, we don't put enough effort into thinking about, how does the other person really want to be treated? We again, it gets back, maybe in to a degree, in to our discussion about humor earlier we are we're so much into what is it all about for me, and we don't look at the other person, and the excuse is, well, they're not looking out for me. Why should I look out for them? Greg Hess  37:07 You know, one of the biggest breakthroughs I've had is working with a couple that own a business and Insurance Agency, and the they were doing okay when I started, when they've done much better. And you know, it's besides the story. The big part of the story is how they adjusted and adapted, and that she I think you're probably familiar with disc and I think most people that will be listening on the podcast are but D is a high D, dominant kind of person that likes to win and probably doesn't have a lot of time for the other people's feelings. Let's just put it that way to somebody that's a very high seed is very interested in the technology and everything else. And the two of them were having some challenges, you know, and and once we got the understanding of each other through looking at their disc profiles, all of a sudden things cleared up, a whole, whole bunch. And since then, they've just been a pinnacle of growth between the two of them. And it was just as simple as getting an understanding of going, you know, I got to look at it through your eyes, rather than my eyes. When it comes to being a leader in this company and how sure I'm still going to be demanding, still I'm going to be the I'm not going to apologize about it, but what I got him to do is carry a Q tip in his pocket, and so every time she got on him, kind of in the Bossy way. He just took out, pulled out the Q tip, and I said, that stands for quit taking it personal. Don't you love it? Michael Hingson  38:29 Yeah, well, and it's so important that we learn to communicate better. And I'm sure that had a lot to do with what happened with them. They started communicating better, yeah, yeah. Do you ever watch Do you ever watch a TV show on the Food Network channel? I haven't watched it for a while. Restaurant impossible. Greg Hess  38:51 Oh, restaurant impossible. Yeah, I think is that guy? Michael Hingson  38:55 No, that's not guy. It's my Michael. I'm blanking out Greg Hess  39:00 whatever. He goes in and fixes up a restaurant. Michael Hingson  39:03 He fixes up restaurants, yeah, and there was one show where that exact sort of thing was going on that people were not communicating, and some of the people relatives were about to leave, and so on. And he got them to really talk and be honest with each other, and it just cleared the whole thing up. Greg Hess  39:25 Yeah, yeah. It's amazing how that works. Michael Hingson  39:28 He's He's just so good at at analyzing situations like that. And I think that's one of the things that mostly we don't learn to do individually, much less collectively, is we don't work at being very introspective. So we don't analyze what we do and why what we do works or doesn't work, or how we could improve it. We don't take the time every day to do that, which is so unfortunate. Greg Hess  39:54 Oh boy, yeah, that continuous improvement Kaizen, all of that type of world. Critical to getting better, you know. And again, that comes back, I think, a little bit to mindset and saying, Hey, I'm gonna but also systems. I mean, I've always got systems in place that go, let's go back and look at that, and how, what can we do better? And if you keep doing it every time, you know, in a certain period, things get a lot better, and you have very fine tuning, and that's how you get distinguished businesses. I think, yeah, Michael Hingson  40:27 yeah, it's all about it's all about working together. So go ahead, I Greg Hess  40:31 was working with a guy at Disney, or guy had been at Disney, and he was talking about how they do touch point analysis for every every place that a customer could possibly touch anything in whatever happens in their environment, and how they analyze that on a, I think it was a monthly, or even at least a quarterly basis, where they go through the whole park and do an analysis on that. How can we make it better? Michael Hingson  40:55 Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of that goes back to Walt having a great influence. I wonder if they're doing as much of that as they used to. Greg Hess  41:04 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, yeah, because it's getting pretty big and times change. Hopefully, culture Go ahead. I was gonna say a cultural perspective. I just thought of something I'd share with you that when I went into West Lake Village High School as a basketball coach, I walked into the gym and there was a lot of very tall I mean, it's a very competitive team and a competitive school, 611, six, nine kids, you know, that are only 16 years old. And I looked around and I realized that I'm kid from Canada here, you know, I gotta figure out how to make this all work in a quick, fast, in a hurry way. And I thought these kids were a little more interested in looking good than rather being good. And I think I'd been around enough basketball to see that and know that. And so I just developed a whole philosophy called psycho D right on the spot almost, which meant that we were going to build a culture around trying to hold teams under a common goal of 50 points, common goal, goal for successful teams. And so we had this. I started to lay that out as this is the way this program is going to work, guys and son of a gun, if we didn't send five of those guys onto division one full rides. And I don't think they would have got that if they you know, every college coach loves a kid who can play defense. Yeah, that's what we prided ourselves in. And, of course, the band got into it, the cheerleaders got into it, the whole thing. Of course, they bring in that special olympics thing, and that's part of that whole culture. Guess what? I mean, we exploded for the really powerful culture of of a good thing going on. I think you got to find that rallying point for all companies and groups that you work with. Don't you to kind of have that strong culture? Obviously, you have a very huge culture around your your world. Michael Hingson  42:54 Well, try and it's all about again, enhancing other people, and I want to do what I can do, but it's all about enhancing and helping others as well. Yeah. How about trust? I mean, that's very important in leadership. I'm sure you would, you would agree with that, whereas trust been a major part of things that you do, and what's an example of a place where trust really made all the difference in leadership and in endeavor that you were involved with? Greg Hess  43:29 Yeah, so often, clients that I've had probably don't have the they don't have the same knowledge and background in certain areas of you know, we all have to help each other and growing and having them to trust in terms of knowing their numbers and sharing with me what their previous six month P and L, or year to date, P and L, that kind of thing, so that I can take that profit and loss and build out a pro forma and build where we're going with the business. There's an element of trust that you have to have to give somebody all your numbers like that, and I'm asking for it on my first coaching session. And so how do I get that trust that quickly? I'm not sure exactly. It seems to work well for me. One of the things that I focus on in understanding people when I first meet and start to work with them is that by asking a simple question, I'll ask them something like, how was your weekend? And by their response, I can get a good bit of an idea whether I need to get to get them to trust me before they like me, or whether they get to get them to like me before they trust me. And if the response is, had a great weekend without any social response at all connected to it, then I know that I've got to get those people to trust me, and so I've got to present myself in a way that's very much under trust, where another the response might be. Had a great weekend, went out golfing with my buddies. Soon as I hear with the now I know I need to get that person to like. Me before they trust me. And so that's a skill set that I've developed, I think, and just recognizing who I'm trying and building trust. But it's critical. And once, once you trust somebody, and you'd show and they, you don't give them reason to not trust you, you know, you show up on time, you do all the right things. It gets pretty strong. Yeah, it doesn't take but, you know, five or six positive, that's what the guy said he's going to do. He's done it, and he's on top of it to start trusting people. I think, Well, Michael Hingson  45:31 I think that that trust is all around us. And, you know, we we keep hearing about people don't trust each other, and there's no trust anymore in the world. I think there's a lot of trust in the world. The issue isn't really a lack of trust totally. It's more we're not open to trust because we think everyone is out to get us. And unfortunately, there are all too many ways and times that that's been proven that people haven't earned our trust, and maybe we trusted someone, and we got burned for it, and so we we shut down, which we shouldn't do, but, but the reality is that trust is all around us. I mean, we trust that the internet is going to keep this conversation going for a while. I shouldn't say that, because now we're going to disappear, right? But, but, trust is really all around us, and one of the things that I tell people regularly is, look, I want to trust and I want people to trust me. If I find that I am giving my trust to someone and they don't reciprocate or they take advantage of it. That tells me something, and I won't deal with that person anymore, but I'm not going to give up on the idea of trust, because trust is so important, and I think most people really want to trust and I think that they do want to have trusting relationships. Greg Hess  47:02 Yeah, totally agree with you on that, you know. And when it's one of those things, when you know you have it, you don't have to talk about it, you just have it, you know, it's there, right? Michael Hingson  47:16 Yeah, and then, well, it's, it's like, I talk about, well, in the book that I wrote last year, live, it was published last year, live like a guide dog. Guide Dogs do love unconditionally, I'm absolutely certain about that, but they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between them and us, unless there's something that is just completely traumatized them, which isn't usually the case, they're open to trust, and they want to trust and they want to develop trusting relationships. They want us to be the pack leaders. They know we're supposed to be able to do that. They want to know what we expect of them. But they're open to trust, and even so, when I'm working with like a new guide dog. I think it takes close to a year to really develop a full, complete, two way trusting relationship, so that we really essentially know what each other's thinking. But when you get that relationship, it's second to none. Greg Hess  48:15 Yeah, isn't that interesting? How long were you with Rosella? Before the event, Michael Hingson  48:21 Rosella and I were together. Let's see we Oh, what was it? It was February or May. No, it was the November of 1999 so it was good two year. Good two years. Yeah, wow, yeah. So, you know, we we knew each other. And you know, even so, I know that in that in any kind of a stressful situation, and even not in a stressful situation, my job is to make sure that I'm transmitting competence and trust to Roselle, or now to Alamo. And the idea is that on September 11, I all the way down the stairs just continue to praise her, what a good job. You're doing a great job. And it was important, because I needed her to know first of all that I was okay, because she had to sense all of the concern that people had. None of us knew what was going on on the stairwell, but we knew that something was going on, and we figured out an airplane hit the building because we smelled jet fuel, but we didn't know the details, but clearly something was going on, so I needed to send her the message, I'm okay, and I'm with you and trust you and all that. And the result of that was that she continued to be okay, and if suddenly she were to suddenly behave in a manner that I didn't expect, then that would tell me that there's something different and something unusual that's going on that I have to look for. But we didn't have to have that, fortunately, which was great. It's. About trust, and it's all about developing a two way trust, yeah, Greg Hess  50:05 yeah, amazing. Well, and it's funny how, when you say trust, when in a situation where trust is lost, it's not so easily repaired, no, Michael Hingson  50:16 you know, yeah. And if it's really lost, it's because somebody's done something to betray the trust, unless somebody misinterprets, in which case you've got to communicate and get that, that that confidence level back, which can be done too. Greg Hess  50:33 Yeah, yeah. Important to be tuned and tuned into that, Michael Hingson  50:40 but it is important to really work to develop trust. And as I said, I think most people want to, but they're more often than not, they're just gun shy, so you have to really work at developing the trust. But if you can do it, what a relationship you get with people. Greg Hess  50:57 Circumstances, you know, and situational analysis change the level of trust, of course, in so many ways. And some people are trusting people where they shouldn't, you know, and in the right in the wrong environment. Sometimes you know, you have to be aware. I think people are fearful of that. I mean, just even in our electronic world, the scammers and those people you gotta, we get, we get one or two of those, you know, messages every day, probably people trying to get you to open a bank account or something on them. Better be aware. Don't want to be losing all your money. Yeah, but it's not to have trust, right? Michael Hingson  51:41 Yeah, it's one we got to work on well, so you you support the whole concept of diversity, and how has embracing diversity of people, perspectives or ideas unlocked new opportunities for you and the people you work with. Greg Hess  52:00 I got a great story for you on that. Michael A when I got into this coaching business, one of the one of the clients I was lucky enough to secure was a group called shredding on the go. And so the mother was kind of running the show, but her son was the president, and kind of the one that was in charge of the company. Now he's wheelchair, 100% wheelchair bound, nonverbal, very, very, I don't remember the exact name, but I mean very, very restrictive. And so what she figured out in time was his young is that he could actually take paper and like putting paper into a shredder. So she grew the idea of saying, Gosh, something James can do, we can build a business. This, this kid's, you know, gonna, I'm gonna get behind this and start to develop it. And so she did, and we created, she had created a company. She only had two employees when she hired me, but we went out and recruited and ended up growing it up to about 20 employees, and we had all the shredders set up so that the paper and all of our delivery and so on. And we promoted that company and supporting these people and making real money for real jobs that you know they were doing. So it was all, you know, basically all disabled autism to, you name it. And it was just a great experience. And so we took that show to the road. And so when we had Earth Day, I'd go out and we'd have a big event, and then everybody would come in and contribute to that and be a part of growing that company. Eventually, we got to the company to the point where the mother was worried about the the owner, the son's health was getting, you know, his life expectancy is beyond it, and she didn't want to have this company and still be running and when he wasn't there. And so we worked out a way to sell the company to a shredding company, of course, and they loved the the client. We had over 50 clients going, and they ended up making quite a bit of money that they put back into helping people with disabilities. So it was just a great cycle and a great opportunity to do that and give people an opportunity. I got to be their business coach, and what a lot of fun I included myself in the shredding I was involved with all parts of the company, and at one point, what a lot of fun I had with everybody. Michael Hingson  54:22 Yeah, yeah. There's something to be said for really learning what other people do in a company and learning the jobs. I think that's important. It's not that you're going to do it every day, but you need to develop that level of understanding. Greg Hess  54:37 Michael, you'll love this. Our best Shredder was blind. She did more than anybody, and she was blind. People go, you can't be doing that when you're What do you mean? She had it figured out. Yeah. Michael Hingson  54:48 What's the deal? Yeah, no, Shredder doesn't overheat, you know? But that's another step, yeah. So what's an example you've worked with a lot of teams. And so on. What's an example where a collaborative effort really created something and caused something to be able to be done that otherwise wouldn't have happened? Right? Greg Hess  55:10 Well, I referred back real quickly to the psycho D thing, where he had a common goal, common pride in taking it, and we just were on it. And I think that was a really, really transformational kind of thing to make everybody better as one whole area in a team. Now that's probably the first thing that comes to mind. I think the the idea of bringing the team together, you know, and really getting them to all work as one is that everybody has to understand everybody else's action plan. What's their plan? What is their vision? Where are they going in terms of, you know, playing basketball, to whether you're on the sales team, whether you're on the marketing team, or whatever part of the business you're in, do you have an action plan? And you can openly show that, and you feel like you're 100% participating in the group's common goal. I can't over emphasize an element of a common goal. I think, in team building, whatever that may be, you know, typically, the companies I'm working with now, we try to change it up every quarter, and we shoot quarter by quarter to a common goal that we all and then we build our plans to reach and achieve that for each individual within a company. And it works really well in building teams. And it's a lot of fun when everything comes together. You know, example of how a team, once you built that, and the team's there, and then you run into adversity, we have a team of five people that are selling insurance, basically, and one of them lost her father unexpectedly and very hard, Hispanic, Hispanic background, and just devastating to her and to her mother and everything. Well, we've got a machine going in terms of work. And so what happened is everybody else picked up her piece, and all did the parts and got behind her and supported her. And it took her about five months to go through her morning phase, and she's come back, and now she's going to be our top employee. Now going forward, it's just amazing how everybody rallied around her. We were worried about her. She comes back, and she's stronger than ever, and she'd had her time, and it was just nice to see the team of a group of company kind of treat somebody like family. That's a good thing. Michael Hingson  57:30 That's cool. What a great story. What mindset shift Do you think entrepreneurs and leaders really need to undergo in order to be successful. Greg Hess  57:45 Boy, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about the idea of looking through it, through other people's eyes, right? And then as a leader, you know, the same thing you were mentioning earlier, Michael, was that you draw the strength out of the people, rather than demand kind of what you want them to do in order to get things done, it's build them up as people. And I think that that's a critical piece in in growing people and getting that whole element of leadership in place. Yeah, what was the other part of that question? Again, let me give you another piece of that, because I think of some Go ahead. Yeah. I was just remember, what did you ask me again, I want to make sure I'm right Michael Hingson  58:28 from your books and coaching work. The question was, what kind of mindset shift Do you think that entrepreneurs and leaders have to adopt? Greg Hess  58:39 Yeah, yeah. So that's one part of the mindset, but the big one is recognizing that it's a growth world that we need to look at how we can grow our company, how we can grow individuals, how we can all get better and continuous improvement. And I think that is an example of taking a problem and recognizing as an opportunity. And that's part of the mindset right there that you got to have. I got a big problem here. How are we going to make that so that we're we're way better from that problem each time it happens and keep improving? Michael Hingson  59:10 Yeah, that makes sense. Well, if you could leave everyone who's listening and watching this today with one key principle that would help them live and lead with an unstoppable mindset. What would that be? What, what? What advice do you have? Greg Hess  59:30 Yeah, my advice is make sure you understand your passion and what, what your purpose is, and have a strong, strong desire to make that happen. Otherwise, it's not really a purpose, is it? And then be true to yourself. Be true to yourself in terms of what you spend your time on, what you do, in terms of reaching that purpose. It's to be the best grandparent there you can be in the world. Go get it done, but make sure you're spending time to grandkids. Don't just talk it so talks cheap and action matters. You know, and I think, figure out where you're spending your time and make sure that fits in with what you really want to gather happen in your life and fulfilling it. Michael Hingson  1:00:09 Well, I like that talks cheap and action matters. That's it. Yeah, I tell that. I tell that to my cat all the time when she doesn't care. But cats are like that? Well, we all know that dogs have Masters, but cats have staff, so she's a great kitty. That's good. It's a wonderful kitty. And I'm glad that she's in my life, and we get to visit with her every day too. So it works out well, and she and the Dog get along. So, you know, you can't do better than that. That's a good thing. Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely super. I we've I think we've talked a lot, and I've learned a lot, and I hope other people have too, and I think you've had a lot of good insights. If people would like to reach out to you and maybe use your services as a coach or whatever, how do they do that? Greg Hess  1:01:00 Well, my website is coach, hess.com Michael Hingson  1:01:06 H, E, S, S, Greg Hess  1:01:07 yeah, C, O, A, C, H, H, E, S, s.com, that's my website. You can get a hold of me at coach. At coach, hess.com that's my email. Love to hear from you, and certainly I'm all over LinkedIn. My YouTube channel is desk of coach s. Got a bunch of YouTubes up there and on and on. You know, all through the social media, you can look me up and find me under Coach. Coach S, is my brand Cool? Michael Hingson  1:01:38 Well, that it's a well worth it brand for people to go interact with, and I hope people will so Oh, I appreciate that. Well, I want to thank you all for listening and watching us today. Reach out to coach Hess, I'd love to hear from you. Love to hear what you think of today's episode. So please give us an email at Michael H i, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, wherever you're monitoring our podcast, please give us a five star rating. We value it. And if you know anyone who might be a good guest to come on and tell their story, please introduce us. We're always looking for more people to come on and and chat with us. Coach you as well. If you know anyone, I'm sure you must love to to get more people. Now, if you could get Magic Johnson, that'd be super but that's probably a little tougher, but it'd be, it'd be fun. Any, anyone t

Kruser previews what could be a tough year for small business with Tom Underwood from the National Federation of Independent Businesses and investigates why the US Postal Service is moving so slowly these days. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The U.S. economy demonstrated robust growth in the third quarter of 2025, with a gross domestic product (GDP) increase of 4.3%, according to the Commerce Department. This growth occurred despite consumer concerns and uncertainties related to tariffs, with military spending and corporate profits contributing significantly. However, the technology sector experienced substantial layoffs, with 1.1 million jobs cut in 2025, of which only 55,000 were attributed to artificial intelligence (AI). The majority of job losses stemmed from corporate restructuring and economic conditions rather than direct displacement by AI, leading to hiring freezes, particularly for entry-level positions.Small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs) are currently facing challenges in attracting talent, with over 70% reporting difficulties in finding qualified candidates due to competition from larger firms. The National Federation of Independent Business noted that nearly half of all small businesses are struggling to fill open positions, which is stalling growth and reducing productivity. Despite a slight increase in small business optimism, driven by expectations of higher sales, many owners cite labor quality as their top concern. Additionally, 64% of SMBs are experiencing supply chain disruptions, complicating their operations.The episode also discusses the ongoing chip and memory shortages, which are expected to persist into 2027, leading to rising prices for consumer electronics. Major memory manufacturers are prioritizing supply for AI companies, impacting pricing across various sectors. Furthermore, the shift towards outcome-based pricing models in software is highlighted, where companies may pay based on actual results delivered, potentially complicating the relationship between service providers and clients if expectations are not clearly defined.For Managed Service Providers (MSPs) and IT service leaders, these developments underscore the importance of clarity and realistic expectations in service delivery. As operational fragility becomes more pronounced amid rising costs and labor shortages, MSPs must reframe their roles from implementers to risk managers. This shift is crucial to avoid margin erosion and contract disputes, ensuring that they are not unduly burdened by decisions made outside their control. The evolving economic landscape necessitates a proactive approach to pricing and service design, particularly as automation and AI continue to reshape the industry. Four things to know today 00:00 Strong GDP Growth, Persistent Layoffs, and Weak AI Returns Expose Hidden Risk for SMB Operations07:04 AI Is Driving Hardware Shortages, Cloud Growth, and Outcome-Based Pricing—Raising Cost Risk for MSPs11:10 MSP Expense Volatility, AI-Driven Service Shifts, and Labor Shortages Are Colliding on Pricing Strategy15:04-- MSP Radio Expands Beyond News With Acquisition of Two MSP Education Brands This is the Business of Tech.     Supported by:  https://cometbackup.com/?utm_source=mspradio&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=sponsorship

What if most marketing struggles have nothing to do with tactics and everything to do with clarity? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with marketing strategist and global entrepreneur Sacha Awaa to explore why so many small businesses waste money on marketing that never works. Sacha shares how growing up across cultures shaped her approach to strategy, leadership, and customer connection. We talk about why understanding your audience matters more than any tool, how AI is changing speed to market without replacing human judgment, and why marketing should be treated as an investment rather than an expense. You'll hear practical insights on audits, go-to-market strategy, process building, and leadership decisions that help businesses grow with intention instead of noise. I believe you will find this conversation both grounding and useful as you think about how to build something sustainable in a crowded marketplace. Highlights: 00:09 – Hear how growing up across cultures shaped a broader view of leadership, communication, and business.10:11 – Learn why AI improves speed to market but still requires human judgment to work well.12:13 – Discover why not truly understanding your audience is the biggest reason marketing fails.19:22 – Understand what marketing strategy actually means beyond tactics, tools, and trends.27:51 – See what small businesses can borrow from enterprise companies without losing agility.46:09 – Learn why strong leaders know when to step back and let the right people lead. About the Guest: Sacha Awaa is a marketing strategist, entrepreneur, and co-founder of My Marketer Mentors, a fast-growing community designed to help small business owners cut through the noise and succeed with marketing that actually works. With a unique ability to blend creativity and data, Sacha has guided startups and small businesses in turning limited budgets into measurable results. Her career has been driven by a passion for helping entrepreneurs avoid costly mistakes, drawing on insights from both Fortune 500 playbooks and scrappy startup strategies. Through workshops, mentorship, and one-on-one guidance, she empowers business owners to find clarity in today's overwhelming marketing landscape. Sacha's own journey reflects the intersection of design thinking and strategic planning—leveraging both sides of the brain to unlock powerful growth. She believes that marketing isn't just about selling products, but about building authentic communities, which inspired her to create a peer-led space where entrepreneurs can learn from and support each other. Whether she's breaking down practical go-to-market frameworks, rethinking outdated marketing tactics, or sharing her personal story of resilience and innovation, Sacha brings both warmth and wisdom to the small business world. Ways to connect with Sacha: www.mymarketermentors.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachaawwa/https://www.instagram.com/uncomplicate__it/https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachaawwa/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone, and I want to welcome you to another episode of unstoppable mindset today. I your host Michael hingson gets a chance to talk with Sacha Awa, who is a marketing professional. She's going to tell us a lot about that I know, and she's a marketing strategist in general. She's an entrepreneur, and she's co founder of whoop I lost it there, my marketer my marketer mentors. So we'll learn about that as we go forward, if I don't get tongue tied anyway, Sasha, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Sacha Awaa  02:05 Yes, thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here. Well, why Michael Hingson  02:08 don't we start? I love to do this to have you start by talking maybe about the early Sasha, growing up, and just telling us a little about you. Yeah. Sacha Awaa  02:18 So I was born in Dallas, Texas, where my middle eastern dad and my European, Swedish mother collided. And then I grew up in the Middle East and migrated my way down south, down to the US, really, to attend college, where both of my parents went, and I have since stayed and been here. So I am sort of a, a, I guess, a global citizen in the sense that, you know, I, I, I travel a lot to my parents hometown and countries as well as, you know, have a base here in South Florida in the United States. And it's just really great to, you know, have that connection across the board, and I think it truly helps with work just, you know, working alongside and coming from different parts of the world, Michael Hingson  03:09 what do you think about the fact that you have lived in various parts of the world, and how that has really shaped the way you view working with people and viewing the job that you do. Sacha Awaa  03:22 Well, I think that when you are sort of that global citizen, and I think a lot of you know, my generation is having lived all over, it really creates that sense of truly understanding and being able to connect with folks all over just, you know, really the nuances of culture and you know, really how things sort of function and work in their in their country, and really being able to adapt it so it's not just, and I have clients globally. And you know, some clients are some, some people are like, Oh my gosh, it's so hard to do business in X country, or so on and so forth. And I think you just, you adapt, and you, as long as you're open to understanding how other people work and how they get things done, then I think it's a great fit for you to for you to be, for you to be doing that. Michael Hingson  04:11 Yeah, I think it's so important to have a broader perspective than so many of us do. I also think that, and know that traveling around the US, there are a lot of different kinds of attitudes and cultures, if you will, in different parts of the country, which is really cool, this country is large enough that it has that but then traveling to other countries has also allowed me to gain a broader perspective, which is why I asked the question. Because I agree with you. I think that there's so much to be gained by seeing and experiencing various parts of the world. Yes, it broadens your horizons in so many ways. Sacha Awaa  04:49 Yes, in so many ways. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, Michael Hingson  04:53 which is, which is really cool. So, so how long did you live in the Middle East? Sacha Awaa  05:00 I was in the middle east from when I was four months until I was, how should I say, until I was 16, and then came here for boarding school, and then later continued on and lived here. So it hasn't, it's, you know, I've probably spent a majority of my life in the US. But I think what's interesting is when you grow up at a young age, anywhere you really get into really having that foundation and that makes you who you are. Michael Hingson  05:34 Yeah, yeah. Well, how, why did you come back to the US when you were 16, or how did that work out? Sacha Awaa  05:43 I came for the purpose of education. Michael Hingson  05:46 Yeah, your parents were all in favor of that. 05:49 Yes, that's where they went to school. So they Michael Hingson  05:52 wanted you to get that that sense as well. I mean, you've certainly had 16 years almost of learning and so on in the Middle East, but it must have been quite a big difference coming to the US. Sacha Awaa  06:07 Yes, it was, but yeah, of course. I mean, it's when you're when you're at the tender age of 16. Yeah, you know, coming here and migrating anywhere away from your family, especially long distance, even though you're probably like, banging your fists on the wall and saying, I can't wait to leave home. You then have a rude awakening when that happens. Michael Hingson  06:28 Mm, hmm. Well, so are you so your parents still in the Middle East? Or how does that work? Sacha Awaa  06:36 No, my parents are. Well, they're between the Middle East, Europe and the US as well. They're all over Flin around, huh? Yeah. And they continue to do so well, Michael Hingson  06:48 which gives them a broader set of horizons about things. But they they do come and visit daughter occasionally, I gather, Sacha Awaa  06:57 yes, they do. And they come and they stay for two to three months at a time. So it's 07:01 great. Well, that's cool. Michael Hingson  07:04 And so what languages do you speak? Sacha Awaa  07:08 I speak both Swedish, English and Arabic. Michael Hingson  07:12 Okay, wow. So what? What prompted Swedish as part of it? Sacha Awaa  07:18 What prompted Swedish as part of it, my mother is Swedish. Michael Hingson  07:22 Oh, that's true. You said she was, didn't, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, cool. So, so that gives you, certainly a plethora so next you have to learn an Asian language, and then you're going to really have a number of continents. Much less you could do Africa. 07:39 Yes, exactly. Michael Hingson  07:42 But that's, that's cool. So where did you go to college? Sacha Awaa  07:45 I went to American University in Washington, DC. Michael Hingson  07:48 Ah, okay, what did you study marketing, I assume. Sacha Awaa  07:52 No, actually, I studied, I studied graphic design. I mean, I eventually worked for advertising agency, but I was on the design side. Okay? Michael Hingson  08:02 And then you graduated. Did you get an advanced degree or just a bachelor's just a bachelor's degree that was enough to get you going, Yes. What did you do after you You graduated? Sacha Awaa  08:17 What did I do after I graduated? I worked in, I worked in two advertising agencies. I worked in a much smaller one that, you know, when you live in Washington, DC, you either work for the government or you have government contracts. Yeah, yeah. So I worked with government contracts and advertising agency backgrounds Michael Hingson  08:40 cool and you, you liked it. Sacha Awaa  08:46 I did. I worked as a graphic designer for about four years, and I switched over leaving graphic design because I just felt that it was really hard to be creative under pressure. Michael Hingson  09:01 Yeah. Well, yeah, but as you transitioned into doing more marketing things, that's pretty creative under pressure, isn't it? Yeah. Sacha Awaa  09:12 I mean, I guess marketing in general is just a lot of pressure to begin with, Michael Hingson  09:17 yeah, but still, but you, you certainly seem to do okay with it all. Sacha Awaa  09:26 I Yeah, and I think it's I'm always up for a good challenge. Michael Hingson  09:31 When did you go out and start your own company? Sacha Awaa  09:36 Started my own company, if you'd imagine, I graduated in 2003 and then I worked all throughout the years, and then I started my own company in 2022 Michael Hingson  09:46 oh so. Post somewhat, post pandemic, Sacha Awaa  09:50 somewhat in the midst of why did Michael Hingson  09:54 you decide to start your own company rather than just continuing to work for others? Sacha Awaa  10:00 I wanted to break the shackles and basically have my own freedom. Michael Hingson  10:08 And it's working out for you. Okay, Sacha Awaa  10:10 yeah. I mean, starting anything is tough, right? Michael Hingson  10:13 Yeah, yeah. But you like being an entrepreneur. I do. I love it. So what do you do in your own company? Maybe, what do you do different? Or what do you do that you didn't do when you work for others? Yeah, I think Sacha Awaa  10:30 everything that I learned in terms of working for other companies was really just, you know, my bottom line and focus is ensuring that small business owners and entrepreneurs survive and thrive in this environment, of, how should I say, survive and thrive in the environment, of, of what it's like to build a business these days. It's no longer that American dream in the 40s, 50s and 60s and the 70s, really. That made that was so much easier. I think the AI boom is making things a lot easier. To start a company again, but it's just, you know, it it's a different time, right? So owning any kind of business is a struggle. Michael Hingson  11:13 Why is AI making it easier? AI is Sacha Awaa  11:17 making it easier because AI has created platforms that can build a website in Six Minutes or Less versus, you know, I don't know, you know, I mean, it's, it's very, it's very different, you know, so, and I think it's, it's really speed and agility is what it is. It's speed and agility to market. You know, yeah, Michael Hingson  11:45 well, and with AI and all of it, it does. Do you find that it still makes mistakes, or that it may be a better way to put it, rather than it still makes mistakes? Maybe a better way to say it is that even with AI, you need to go in and tweak whatever it does so that it really comes out more like what you're specifically looking for. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, because AI is great, but it isn't you, and it never will be. It's going to work at times to get closer to what you are, but still being able to go in and and tweak it is probably a very helpful thing 100% so that that makes a lot of sense. Yes, so you have been working now at this company. Talk about being under pressure, I mean now, but it's, it's, it's a self imposed pressure, so it's really not the same as what you would experience working for someone else, right? Correct, yeah. So Correct, yeah. So it's not really the same kind of pressure, not at all. You can make the pressure what you want it to be. Oh, yeah. Well, so what are the most common mistakes that you see small businesses making that you when, when you start to talk with them about marketing so on, what are the what are the mistakes that they usually make? Sacha Awaa  13:18 Oh, the it's, it's not necessarily mistakes that they make. I think it's just the lack of education of what people understand marketing truly is to really, then be able to develop out, you know what that could look like, right? Or you know how it would work for them. So it's just really, not truly understanding, you know, where they are in their business, maybe even doing the work of, you know, digging into, you know, who their customer audience is, and so on and so forth. So it really then becomes a struggle as to, you know, creating creating content for them to connect with. How should I say their audience? Because they have maybe a message that doesn't make sense to their audience, because they really haven't dug into the mindset. So I think really to answer your question, the biggest mistake that that small business owners make, and this is what I push all the time, is ensuring that you do the work of understanding who your audience is and connecting your product and service to that. Michael Hingson  14:28 So when you asked me, before we started about what the audience is like, and I said, it's really a general, pretty eclectic audience because of the way we do the podcast, that must have drove you crazy. 14:38 No, not at all, Sacha Awaa  14:40 because I think that in a medium like this is different, right? I mean, you probably deliver, you probably deliver a lot of content that makes sense for for a lot of people. And so, you know, I think that that that works in so many ways. Oh, so, in essence, kind of do understand who you're. Audiences in a way, Michael Hingson  15:01 yeah, well, as much as we can. But the other part about it is that in this podcast, having different kinds of guests with different kinds of messages, like yesterday, I talked with two people who are very religious and faith based. And I'm sure that there are people who aren't going to be interested in that, who listen to our podcast, they might listen to it. I hope they will, just because I think it's good to always hear other perspectives. But I do understand that sometimes people in the audience will listen to one thing and they won't listen to someone else and what they do, and I think that's perfectly okay, yes, because the kind of medium that we have exactly so I my background has has been since 1979 in sales. Okay, of course, we work very closely with marketing, and there's a lot of overlap and all that, but in looking at the people that you work with and so on, can you give us a story of maybe a company or someone who really overspent on a marketing campaign that they really didn't need to spend so much on their or a tactic where they just overspend without getting any real results. Sacha Awaa  16:27 That happens when there's a lack of understanding of, you know, jumping into something just because you think the world has told you that that's what you need, or, you know, you've been told, you know, this is what you should be doing. So in that sense, it makes it very hard because of the simple fact that they don't really they jump into making a mistake when it's not the right time for their business. And most of these sort of marketing agencies that are out there kind of focused on a one track setup so they don't really it then becomes a bad marriage. If that makes sense, you're meeting the you're meeting the client. You're connect a client is being connected to an agency at the wrong time, and it's it's just not where they should be as a as a business. Michael Hingson  17:26 So a company starts doing something in a particular way because someone told them to do it that way, but they don't get results. Then what happens? Sacha Awaa  17:36 Then they think marketing sucks, and that's the majority of who comes to me, you know, yeah. Michael Hingson  17:42 So when that happens, what do you do? Sacha Awaa  17:46 I have to rehabilitate them back into understanding that marketing does actually work. And that's when I build out my whole process and explain to them like, this is, this is how it actually works, you know, you just it wasn't the fault of, you know, the the business that you were working with. It was just the simple fault that you weren't ready and they didn't guide you in the manner that they should have. Michael Hingson  18:15 How do people take that, when you, when you, when you say that to them? Sacha Awaa  18:20 I wish I had met you, you know, before this happened. Because sometimes, you know, dependent, there can be a lot of money that's wasted, right? So, and that's really what the struggle is, and so, but then it automatically gains trust because they know that I'm not here to, you know, to just rip them off and tell them I'm going to TEDx your business and so on and so forth, when I'm actually really going to, you know, support them getting to where they need to get to. Have you Michael Hingson  18:58 had situations where you started working with a company, and you you thought you understood what was going on, but then when you started a campaign, it didn't work either, and you had to punt, as it were. Sacha Awaa  19:10 Well, I always tell them, you know, we have to test and learn, and that's what marketing is all about. So it's going through those motions, and they have to be open for it, but what I do when I test and learn is that I don't throw money out. I make sure I dip our toes in very cautiously to then, you know, make sure that we build accordingly. 19:33 Yeah, yeah. It is. It Michael Hingson  19:37 isn't an exact science, as it were, but it is certainly something that, when you understand it, you know, you know generally how to proceed. And there's a lot of Troy that has to go on. And so it's not magic. But by the same token, it is a process, yes, and I think most people don't really understand. Marketing, they don't understand exactly what it is that you really do that helps companies grow. And maybe that's a way to ask that question. So what? What really, when it comes down to it, is marketing, and what do you do? Sacha Awaa  20:16 Yeah, so think of I'm a strategic I'm a marketing strategist, whereby I really look at a company in terms of what products and services they've created, who they've created for, and then how do we go to market, and where do we find their audiences at a high impact, low cost? So that's essentially what I do, is maximize their dollars spent just based on making sure that their foundation is in a good place. Have I confused you even more? Michael Hingson  20:45 No, no, not at all. Okay, good, but, but I understand it. So yeah. And I think that that it, it really is important for people to be aware that, that it is all about trying to, well, in a lot of senses, you're educating the people you work with, but through and with them, you're also educating the rest of the world about what these people have to offer, and showing that it's a valuable thing and and that's something that, Again, that's what marketing really is all 21:20 about, yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson  21:24 And so it's important to understand that it is a that it is a give and take. It is a process, and it doesn't happen all at once. One of my favorite examples still continues to be, and you're probably familiar with the case was it back in 1984 when somebody put poison in one bottle of Tylenol and yes, and within a day, the president of the company jumped out in front of it and said, We're going to take every bottle off the shelf until we Make sure that everything is really clean. What a marketing campaign by definition. That really was because he was he was building trust, but he was also solving a problem. But I think the most important part of it still is that he was building trust. And I'm just amazed at how many people haven't learned from that. And when they experience a crisis, they they hide rather than learning how to get out in front of it. Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. How do you deal with that? Sacha Awaa  22:32 Um, I don't know. Sometimes I ask myself why I didn't get a degree in psychology as a second major? Michael Hingson  22:39 Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is amazing. But, well, you got to do what you got to do? 22:49 Yeah? Absolutely, right. Michael Hingson  22:52 So what's the first thing that a company should do to make sure that their marketing dollars are really being well spent, Sacha Awaa  23:02 make sure that their marketing dollars are being well spent. And it really goes back to the foundation, ensuring that they really know what their mission and their vision and who they're actually talking to, because if they're creating content that is is not aligned with the pain point of who their audience is, then you've completely missed the beat. Michael Hingson  23:22 And I'm assuming that you find a lot of people who haven't really thought nearly enough about their vision and their mission, and who haven't really learned to understand what their audience 23:32 is. Oh yeah, 100% Michael Hingson  23:36 so what do you do to fix that? Sacha Awaa  23:39 What do I do to fix that, um, that's when I go through my, my, my three part process, in the sense of, I really take a look at, what's the word I'm looking for, understanding, you know, again, like the foundation, I come in and I do an audit, and I really look into, you know, the details of, you know, how they've set up, how they haven't set up, what they've been doing, you know, that hasn't worked for them, and so on and so forth, and really moving through that process, you know, Michael Hingson  24:17 yeah, Do you? Do you find that you often surprise customers because they thought they knew what they were doing, they thought they understood their mission and their audience, and oh, 24:30 they do all the time. 24:32 They're just surprised, Sacha Awaa  24:33 yeah, I mean, they definitely think that they know what they're talking about, you know? And sometimes it's it's difficult to to unpack that, you know, with clients, but it works out in the end, Michael Hingson  24:49 yeah, it's all about education and teaching, and as long as they're willing to learn, which is, of course, part of the issue. Have you had some people that no matter what you tell them, they just refuse to. Buy into what they really need to do to improve, Sacha Awaa  25:04 to try and see if I can make sure that when we're having the initial setup, to ensure that, you know, it's a good fit for both of us that we, we, we make sure that, you know, in general, it's a good fit, right? And so I tend to, I tend to try and hope to have that interview process that that makes it work in the end, right? So, more than not, I'm, I'm pretty I'm pretty accurate with it. But of course, you know, we can always make mistakes, and I have, you know, I have yet to, to let go of a client. But you know, sometimes you have to, you have to allow the client to to, you know, to guide you. But then, you know, I always am Frank in the beginning that, you know, this is what we're going to be working with. This is what we're set up to do so on and so forth. And, you know, if there's pushback, I feel it in the beginning, you know, and I tell them how I work, and they tell me how they work, and we just hope that it becomes a good marriage. Michael Hingson  26:23 Ultimately, it's all about education. And I gather, since you said you've never had to really let go of a client that you've you've been successful at working out some sort of an educational process between the two of you. Yes, because that's really what it's what it's all about. Yeah, I'm assuming that you've learned things along the way too. Sacha Awaa  26:49 I definitely have learned things along the way. Yes. Michael Hingson  26:53 Do you find that sometimes customers, or a customer of yours really did know more of what they were talking about than you thought? And you had to adapt. Sacha Awaa  27:03 Those are a blessing when they when, when they have that. So I'm always open for that, and I think that that's great when they've done the work, you know, yeah, Michael Hingson  27:16 but they've obviously done something that brought them to you, because they were or they felt they were missing something, I assume, yes. So again, it's, it's a learning experience, and I think that's so important, that that that we all learn. I know for me in sales, I figure I learned from every customer that I have ever had, and whenever I hired someone, I told them, at least, especially at least for the first year, you need to think of yourself as a student. Your customers want to teach you. They want you to be successful, as long as you develop a mutual trust and in and ultimately, you have to be a student to understand them, and let them teach you what they do, and so on. Then you go from there, Sacha Awaa  28:07 100% 100% I couldn't agree more, Michael Hingson  28:11 and it's so important to do that, and it makes for a much better arrangement all the way around. When that happens, doesn't 28:18 it? Yes, it does Michael Hingson  28:22 so fortune 500 companies tend to have strategies they've used, and that's probably what brought them to the point where they became fortune 500 companies. But what are some of the strategies, maybe, that they have, that smaller companies can adapt to? Well, it's Sacha Awaa  28:41 interesting that you asked that you asked that because I worked for a fortune 1000 company. I mean, I worked for the New York Times, and what I really have been excited about leaving them and going into the startup world is the simple fact that enterprises have processes and systems in place that startups don't. And that's what's so interesting, is that, you know, while a startup is beautiful chaos and they have more speed and agility to get to market, they just don't have the process, the practice of the processes in place to really be organized to get to market. So that was really one thing that I brought into, into the system, to be able to help support Michael Hingson  29:30 so for example, what are some of those Sacha Awaa  29:34 processes, you know, creating road maps, go to market strategies, you know, digging into systems. And what really tends to happen at startups, it's just like, go, go, go, go, go, just get market. You know, Michael Hingson  29:50 that doesn't work necessarily at all, because even if you're successful, if you don't have a system in place, do you. Really end up figuring out what it was that made you successful? 30:04 Yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson  30:07 So there is, there's a lot of value in in putting processes in place in terms of documenting what you do. Yes, and documentation is a very key part of it, I would think, yes. Because if you do that, then people, or you, when you go back and look at it, can say, Oh, this is what I did, and this is this worked. So we ought to continue that process, yes, 30:37 for sure, for sure, for sure. Michael Hingson  30:41 So the other part about it is, though, that some of these processes may may cost a bunch of money. How do they implement some of these without breaking the bank? Sacha Awaa  30:55 How do they without breaking the bank? In Michael Hingson  30:57 other words, it's going to cost to put processes in place. How do you convince business people, or how do they realize they can do it without losing all their money and just getting a marketing plan going? Sacha Awaa  31:13 I hope that they get in touch with, you know, somebody like me that can really help them through that process and really just, you know, guide them along the way and and support them in that sense, right? So it's a risk listen like with everything that you take in life, with any a vendor that you work with, with any support system that you have, it's a risk that you take to ensure that you know, it is, it is a it is a good marriage at the end of the day. That's why, when I sign up with clients, I ensure that, you know, I guide them along the way to, you know, support what they're doing, understanding that, you know, they may be bootstrapped from a budget standpoint, so it's going in slowly, giving them a proof point that, you know, hey, this is working. And then moving from there, Michael Hingson  32:07 yeah, so you have checkpoints along the way so that they can see that they're making progress. 32:13 Yes, exactly, yeah. Michael Hingson  32:16 And then, by doing that, they gain more confidence. Yes. But it is, it is just, it is a process, and marketing is a process. And we, we all need to really understand that. 32:34 Yes, I Sacha Awaa  32:35 completely agree, you know, but it's an exciting thing, and if clients start to stop, start, stop, to look at it as a line item, but rather an investment. They will, they will see the difference in that. Michael Hingson  32:50 Yeah, that's really the key. It's an investment, and they need to recognize that. And yeah, I'm sure that's part of what you have to teach. Yes, people take that pretty well? Sacha Awaa  33:03 Um, it's not that they take it well immediately. They have to, they have to adapt to it. And, you know, it's, it's once they see that it works, then, then they can feel comfortable about it. You know? Michael Hingson  33:19 Yeah, yes. So can you share a story where a small business applied, maybe the large business approach to branding and so on and experience growth? 33:38 Let's see that question again. Michael Hingson  33:40 Can you share a story where a small company applied a big brand approach and did see growth, Sacha Awaa  33:51 where they applied a big brand approach and they did see growth when you say brand? Are you talking about changing logos, like all that kind of stuff. Michael Hingson  34:02 Well, I don't know that's why. I was wondering if you had a story where somebody looked at a major company and they said, Well, we like what these people are doing. We're going to try to apply that to our business. And they did it with your help, and they were successful. Sacha Awaa  34:22 Um, so, like, so, as I mentioned, like, logos and stuff like that. Okay, that what you mean, like, from a brand. I just want to make sure I understand what you mean by, well, brand, Michael Hingson  34:36 I'm I'm open. That's why I wanted to get your sense of so big companies are successful for one reason or another, and so I was looking for maybe a story about a smaller company that adopted what a bigger company was doing, and found that they really were able to experience growth because of adopting whatever it was that they did. Sacha Awaa  34:59 Yes. Yes, so Well, I think that the audit is the most important part in the beginning, and it's focusing on that audit to ensure that they're in the right place for growth, and that's why we do that work, to make sure that we set them up for success, right? And that, to me, is extremely important, because if that work isn't done, then, then it can be set up to fail. You know, Michael Hingson  35:34 when you say audit, you mean what? Sacha Awaa  35:38 So I look at their their previous marketing history. I look at their mission, their vision. I really dig into who they think is their ideal customer profile. And then, lo and behold, we find out that there's a multitude of different customer profiles that they haven't even thought to look out for, you know? Michael Hingson  35:57 And so then your job is to help guide them to bring some of those other customer potentials into what they do. 36:05 Yes, exactly. Michael Hingson  36:09 So when you're helping a company develop a strong go to mention go to market strategy, what are some of the key elements that you you put in place and that you you you invoke Sacha Awaa  36:24 the key elements that I put in place, it really goes back to really doing the work on who their customer is. Because a lot of, like I said, it goes back to the beginning of what you asked me, What's the biggest mistake? The biggest mistake is that they don't really, truly uncover who they're targeting. They really, they really don't, you know, a lot of companies don't, even enterprise companies don't. Michael Hingson  36:44 So what is the process that you use to get people to recognize and put process, put procedures in place to really experience growth, so that you discover that they don't know their their customer base, for example, like they should, or the way they're they're speaking to their customer base, isn't necessarily the best way to do it. What are, what are some of the procedures and the processes that you actually put in place that help move them forward in a positive way? Yeah. Sacha Awaa  37:18 So you know, when, when we look into the audit. You know, we we really get their content in a good place. We really tighten up their mission. We tighten up their vision. We really expand on who their customer profile is. We make sure that all of their marketing tech is connected so that they can track a lead in through the funnel, from from from the lead to the final sale. And that's that's really important, you know. So that's really, that's really where we start. And then whatever we uncover from the, how should I say, from the audit, then we start to put, and every business is different. And then we really start to put implement and implementations in place to build from, and that becomes the ground up. Michael Hingson  38:09 And how, how long do you typically work with a company? They come to you and they have a problem or whatever, is there kind of any sort of average amount of time that you end up spending with them, or is it a kind of ongoing relationship that lasts a long time? Sacha Awaa  38:26 Project Based clients, and then I have clients that are sort of, you know, have been with me since day one. Marketing never stops. So as long as clients understand that, then, you know, we keep moving. It's the heartbeat of every company, right? Michael Hingson  38:47 So you continue to work with them, and you continue to create and run their marketing campaigns. Yes. How many people do you have in your company? Sacha Awaa  38:58 Um, I am a solopreneur, and I contract people depending on the clients that I bring in. So I also help with other solopreneurs. So that's, that's how I have managed to to make it work, because it will be difficult to keep people on staff if I don't have work for them, right? Yeah, right. Michael Hingson  39:16 Yeah, right. But, but you bring people in so that works out. Well, do you have customers outside the US, or is it primarily in the US? 39:28 They're global. Michael Hingson  39:29 They're global, okay, yeah, yeah, the value of video conferencing, right? 39:36 Exactly, exactly, exactly. Michael Hingson  39:40 So say the pandemic has helped in in fixing some things anyway, or enhancing some things, 39:46 I think so, Michael Hingson  39:49 yeah, I know zoom has become a lot better because of the pandemic as a video conferencing tool. Yes, it's more accessible than most. Which is which is really pretty good. 40:00 But, yes, Michael Hingson  40:03 but it's, I think that that we're, we're seeing the value of it. Do you, which brings up a question a little bit away from marketing, but how do you think that the entire working world is, is changing? Do you think that there, there are a number of companies that are recognizing more the value of hybrid work, whereas people can spend some of their time working at home, as opposed to just having to come into an office every day. Or do you think we're really falling back on just being in the office all the time? Sacha Awaa  40:38 Some people want to go back into the office. I think that they missed the point of of the hybridness of being able to, you know, to connect with people that I really give somebody the opportunity overseas, that can really support them. So I think a majority of people pre covid were maybe not as open. And I think they're, they're very much open to it now, Michael Hingson  41:05 and so you're seeing more people work in a more hybrid way, exactly, yeah, I I'm glad to hear that. I think it's, it's so important. I think that we're seeing that, that workers are happier when they they are in an environment that they're really comfortable in. And the reality is, while offices are great and there's a lot of value and people spending time with each other in the office, that doesn't work all the time or shouldn't work. Yeah, it's true, so it's nice to see some changes that that will help that, yes, exactly, does AI help all that in any way? Sacha Awaa  41:51 Oh, I mean, there, there are some things that AI can help with. But, I mean, from a connect to, it's, it's really maybe platforms that help you connect, that help you get, you know, the job done that maybe assimilate you being together, you know, and and, you know, brainstorming and so on and so forth, right, right? 42:11 So, what Michael Hingson  42:14 do you think about the people who say that AI is going to take away so many jobs? Sacha Awaa  42:19 I don't think that it's going to take away so many jobs. I think the people that focus on jumping on the bandwagon of AI and ensuring that they make their job a lot better with AI are the ones that are going to survive with AI. Yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  42:36 We had someone on the podcast about a year ago, who pointed out that AI will never take away anyone's job. It's people that will take away jobs and they'll give to AI without finding other opportunities for the people who are potentially being displaced. But in reality, that AI still is not going to do everything that a person can do. So Sacha Awaa  43:03 you Yeah, there's going to be things that AI can never do. And I think that that is great, you know? I mean, I think people are going to look more for authenticity than, you know, focusing on what is not real, right? I think, I think, you know, people are so scared that it's going to backlash. I actually think that it's going to showcase that we, we need things. We need certain things, right? Yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  43:44 Well, and I've talked about it here, but one of my favorite interesting things about AI is, when I first started hearing about it, I was talking to a couple of teachers who said that, well, AI is just going to make life really difficult because students are just going to let AI write their papers, and students aren't going to learn anything. And and I asked, What are you going to do about that? Well, what can we do? We we're working on programs so that we can try to figure out whether AI wrote the speech or the or the paper, or they wrote the paper. And that got me thinking, and I finally realized what a wonderful opportunity AI is providing. So you assign a paper for a class of students, and the students go off and do their papers. A lot of them may use AI to do the paper, but if you're concerned about whether they've really learned from the experience. The way to handle it is let everyone turn their papers in, then take a day and let the students in the class each have like a minute, get them up in front of the class and say, now defend your paper. You'll find out very quickly who knows what? Sacha Awaa  44:58 Yeah, it's. True, and they are saying that more people that are using AI, it's actually like hurting their brain from becoming creative, right? Michael Hingson  45:09 Well, I I use AI, but I use AI to perhaps come up with some ideas that I hadn't thought of, but I still create the article or create the paper, because the only way to do it, I think AI is great at coming up with some possibilities that maybe we didn't think of. But yeah, it still needs to be us that does it. 45:31 I completely agree. I couldn't agree more, yeah, and that works. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Michael Hingson  45:40 So when, when startups start launching and doing things, what are some of the common mistakes that they make? Sacha Awaa  45:56 They rush to get to market, and they don't do the foundational work that we chatted about, and then that can really, that can really have a major pushback on them. Michael Hingson  46:13 Are there others that you can think of? There are other things that companies ought to do that they don't Sacha Awaa  46:21 organizational, creating project plans. But it's at its core, you know? I mean, if they, if they rush to get somewhere, and it doesn't turn out to work in the end, it's because, you know, they haven't done the work to really ensure that they're in a good place before they start spending money. You know, Michael Hingson  46:47 companies need to to have leaders and visionaries. How would you define a leader? 46:54 How would I define a leader? Sacha Awaa  46:58 Well, that's a little bit of a loaded question. I would define a leader who understands that they are as strong as who they bring on to support the growth of the company and their ability to know when to take a step back, because they're the founders, and to allow whoever they brought on to help them grow. If that makes sense, it does, yeah, because a lot of the times people hire somebody and they're and they just do the work for them, but it's like, why have you hired them? You know, Michael Hingson  47:43 I think that one of the key attributes of any leader is to know when as to learn your people and know when to step back and let somebody else take the lead because they happen to have more of a talent to do a particular thing than you do 100% I think that is so crucial, because so many leaders 48:06 don't do that. Yep, I completely agree. Sacha Awaa  48:12 They don't. They don't do that at all, you know? Michael Hingson  48:15 Yeah, I you know. And there's a big difference between being a leader and being a boss. 48:22 Yes, absolutely. And Michael Hingson  48:24 I, you know, I always tell every person that I ever hired, my job is not to boss you around. You convinced me that you could do the job we're hiring you for, but my job is to use my talents to help you be more successful, and you and I need to figure out how to make that work. How do we use each other's talents to do the things that you need to be successful? 48:48 Yes, exactly. Michael Hingson  48:51 I don't think that all that many people tend to do that, and they really should. 48:56 Yes, yes. I couldn't agree more. Michael Hingson  49:01 Well, there are a lot of tools and tactics available that people can use. How do you decide to use what in a particular stage of growth or to help people move forward? Sacha Awaa  49:14 It really is just dependent on, on, on their business and their industry and that's what makes it unique to just to focus on, you know, because the same industry could, should, just could have different needs, right? So it's, it's understanding what their needs are that you then assign that to particular tools that help them with growth and so on and so forth. Michael Hingson  49:43 Yeah, that that clearly makes sense. So there's a lot of noise and lot of distractions in marketing. How do you recommend cutting through the noise and focusing on what really matters in any given situation? Um, Sacha Awaa  50:06 what really matters in any given situation? Michael Hingson  50:10 So there's, again, there's there. There's so many ways to get distracted. How do you how do you help to keep people focused on the job at hand, whatever that is to to ignore distractions and focus. Sacha Awaa  50:27 So I guess distractions can come in many different packages. So it's really understanding how those distractions are and what they mean to the company. So just depending on them on that. It's, it's, it's really offering up whether that distraction is important, you know what I'm saying, or if it is, you know, something that is just something to bypass, or if it's noise, so it's really kind of analyzing the worth of spending time and effort on it. Michael Hingson  51:05 How do you get people to get past focusing on those distractions, though? So I mean, you're right and all that you've said, but how do you get people to to recognize what they really need to do in any given situation? Um, Sacha Awaa  51:23 it's really the analysis of of throwing back data to them. So it's like, okay, so this is a distraction. What does this mean to the company? You know, how can we leverage this or not leverage this? Does it make sense, or are we wasting time focusing on think it's just reasoning, right? It's logical reasoning with any type of distraction, whether it's business or personal. Michael Hingson  51:48 Yeah, I know for me, when I worked for a company a number of years ago, I was the first person into the office, because I sold to the east coast from California. So I was in the office by six, and I had two to three hours that I could focus on doing all the phone calls and the other things that I needed to do, because it was nine o'clock on the East Coast, and I started to observe after a while, not so much for me, but when other people started to arrive, they spend time chatting and all sorts of stuff like that. And sometimes I would get interrupted, and it slowed things down. But people chatted and didn't focus as much for quite a while on whatever it is that their job responsibilities required them to do. Yeah, and of course, that's a distraction. It's an interesting distraction of just communications. But still, I never saw that. The company did a lot to get people to really focus. They did some things. They put some procedures in place, for example, where you could see how many phone calls you made in a given day. Yes, some people took that to heart, but a lot of people didn't, and the bottom line is they continue to be distracted. Sacha Awaa  53:14 Yes, it's true, but I think, I think then what, what that what that becomes, it's, it's the personal characteristic. 53:26 Yeah, they have to solve for Michael Hingson  53:30 that they didn't have to solve for. But if you were the leader of a company where you saw some people who were doing that, what would you do? How do you get them to understand, Sacha Awaa  53:44 how do I get them to understand Michael Hingson  53:46 that they need to focus? And how do you help them focus? Sacha Awaa  53:51 I think that's out of my paycheck. Hopefully they have a psychologist back Michael Hingson  53:56 to getting that degree again, right? Sacha Awaa  53:59 Yeah, you know, I mean, like, there's only so much that I can do honestly, you know, 54:06 yeah, yeah, Sacha Awaa  54:11 there really is only so much that I can do in the arena of supporting people, You know, 54:17 right, yeah. Michael Hingson  54:20 So if you encounter an overwhelmed business owner who's trying to create a clear marketing path to do something and they feel overwhelmed, what kind of advice would you give them Sacha Awaa  54:39 that it's natural to feel overwhelmed, Michael Hingson  54:44 and but, but they feel overwhelmed. How do you deal? How do you fix that again? Sacha Awaa  54:50 I mean, I'm somebody that focuses on marketing, so it would be, it would be out of my, my core scope, to be honest. You know? I mean, I just. You know, I can talk them through a certain amount of things, but like, you know, I mean, I can't really change somebody's personality, and it's either, you know, I can guide them in one direction as to, like, what is going to hurt or make or break their company. But I'm not an organizational psychologist. I think that that would be a really good question for an organizational psychologist versus a marketer, 55:21 okay, you know, yeah. Michael Hingson  55:24 Well, if people want to reach out to you and engage you in terms of your services and so on, how do they do that? Sacha Awaa  55:32 Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn. It is Sasha Awa. And then can you spell that S, A, C is in Charlie H A, and then the last name is a W, W, A, and my website is S A M, as in Mary G, as in George H Q, so headquarters.com Michael Hingson  55:52 so it's S A M, G, H Q, H 55:57 Q, exactly.com. Yes. Michael Hingson  56:02 And they can reach out to you through the website, and, of course, on LinkedIn and so on. 56:06 Yes, exactly. Well, we've Michael Hingson  56:09 been doing this a while, but do you have any kind of final words of wisdom and things that you want to say to the audience here to get them thinking and maybe reach out to you? Yeah, yeah. Sacha Awaa  56:20 I think, you know, marketing isn't as complicated as it's made out to be. It is. It is loud and noisy. But you know, there are, there are marketers that are here to support you on complicated and to really support your growth. So really lean on them and and and trust in the process Michael Hingson  56:46 and through that, they'll grow exactly well. Sasha Sacha, I want to thank you very much for being with us today. This has been a lot of fun, and I appreciate it, and I appreciate your time. And I urge all of you to when you're thinking about marketing and growing your business, Satya is a person who can help with that clearly. So hopefully you'll reach out. I'd love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts about today. Feel free to reach out to me. At Michael H i@accessibe.com that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, at, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear from you and get your thoughts and for all of you and such as you as well, if you know anyone else who might ought to be a guest on our podcast, love to get introductions to people and wherever you're observing the podcast today, Please give us a five star rating. We really value your ratings. We value your thoughts and your your ratings and your opinions are what keep us going. So we really appreciate you giving us those and for you again. Sacha, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun. So thank you. 57:58 Thank you so much. Michael. I really appreciate it. Michael Hingson  58:06 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Fear of judgment can quietly shape how you show up, even when you are capable, prepared, and driven. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I talk with Carlos Garcia, an attorney, Army Reserve JAG officer, certified Army Master Resilience Trainer, and high performance coach who helps people move past fear and into purposeful action. Carlos shares his path from growing up in Simi Valley to serving as a trial defense counsel in high pressure legal settings, and how his own fear of rejection once led him to stay quiet, second guess himself, and avoid opportunities. That struggle pushed him to study resilience, neuroscience, psychology, and philosophy, and to test those lessons through intense physical and mental challenges that reshaped how he shows up under pressure. Together, we explore why fear of other people's opinions feels so powerful, how the brain exaggerates threats, and why growth requires planned exposure to discomfort. We talk about preparation versus worry, training your mind before the crisis hits, and why small wins matter more than people realize. I also share lessons from September 11 and from my book Live Like a Guide Dog, connecting mindset, preparation, and courage when it matters most. Carlos's guiding idea runs through the entire conversation. Get calm so you can think clearly. Get bold so you can act with intention. Get after it so progress actually happens. If fear of judgment, public speaking, or stepping outside your comfort zone has been holding you back, this episode offers practical insight and encouragement to move forward with confidence. Highlights: 00:58 – Learn how early success can still create fear of judgment and quiet self doubt. 06:14 – Discover why exposing yourself to discomfort breaks fear predictions that rarely come true. 08:29 – Understand how preparation builds calm before pressure ever hits. 16:28 – Learn how to use stress as energy instead of letting it trigger avoidance. 25:23 – Discover why reflection turns mistakes into growth instead of shame. 52:04 – Learn why getting calm must come before bold action and real progress. About the Guest: Carlos is an attorney, certified Army Master Resilience Trainer, Army reserve JAG officer, and high-performance coach for smart, driven people. He's spent over a decade navigating high-stakes environments, from adversarial legal settings fighting for soldiers as a trial defense counsel to the frontlines of resilience training with soldiers and leaders. It all began in 2011 in Washington, DC, where high-stress, high-judgment, and constant pressure came with the territory. But behind the business attire and confident façade was a harsh reality: a fear of rejection that kept him second-guessing, staying quiet, people-pleasing, and missing out on opportunities he knew he wanted. For years, he avoided rocking the boat, held back in meetings, and lived for external validation. The result? He was invisible in rooms where he should've been leading, stuck on a path that didn't feel like his, and missing out on the roles, relationships, and rewards he worked so hard for. Then, he decided to rewrite the script. He dove into resilience training, went deep into neuroscience, psychology, ancient philosophy, and anything that could help him (and others like me) reject the fear of, well, rejection. That journey led him to the U.S. Army Resilience program, where he got certified to teach soldiers and leaders how to face judgment, stress, and adversity head-on. It led him on a path of continuous testing and personal experimentation—at work, in ultra running, and in combat sports including Brazilian jiu jitsu and judo. And eventually, he created True Progress Lab to bring those same principles to leaders who are ready to step up. His motto: Get calm—clarity starts there. Get bold—stability fuels courage. Get after it—progress demands action. Ways to connect with Carlos**:** Website: http://trueprogresslab.com Newsletter: http://trueprogresslab.com/newsletter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjcarlosg/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trueprogresslab/ X: https://x.com/TrueProgressLab hello@trueprogresslab.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

  In episode 293 of iCantCU, I take you along for a cold—but memorable—day trip to New York City with Jane, where holiday chaos, quality time, and cutting-edge tech collide. The highlight was our visit to Meta Labs, where I spent hands-on time testing the new Ray-Ban Meta Display Smart Glasses to see what they might offer the blind community. I walk through what worked, what didn't, and why the built-in screen reader both impressed and frustrated me—especially when it came to non-standard gestures and demo limitations. We talk about navigation, open-ear audio, live translation, and why hands-free directions could be a game-changer for independent travel. I also share some real talk about accessibility etiquette, crowded holiday sidewalks, frozen train doors, and why earbuds still make me nervous. This episode is part tech review, part travel diary, and the beginning of a longer journey with the Meta Ray-Bans. Show notes at https://www.iCantCU.com/293  Links Mentioned Product links are affiliate links so that I may earn a commission. Ray-Ban Meta Glasses, Wayfarer: https://amzn.to/42EU0Sy Like the sunglasses Jane bought for me? https://amzn.to/4oGWLfx Another big dog toy that may be on Ziggy's list: https://amzn.to/4nWcib1 Federation Focus on the NFB of PA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa I edit the show with Descript and love it!: https://www.iCantCU.com/descript/ Be My Eyes app (free): https://www.bemyeyes.com/  Seeing AI app (free): https://www.seeingai.com/  Year-end Spectacular! That Real Blind Tech Show ep 194: https://thatrealblindtechshow.libsyn.com/episode-194-that-real-blind-tech-show-year-end-spectacular-its-real-and-its-spectacular Index of That Real Blind Tech Show episodes: https://www.icantcu.com/trbts/  Watch iCantCU episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU Support iCantCU When shopping at Amazon, I would appreciate it if you clicked on this link to make your purchases: https://www.iCantCU.com/amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associate Program and earn commissions on qualifying purchases. The best part is, you don't pay extra for doing this! White Canes Connect Podcast Episode 146 In Episode 146 of White Canes Connect, we share the 2025 NFB of Pennsylvania State Convention banquet keynote delivered by National Federation of the Blind Executive Director of Blindness Initiatives, Anil Lewis. With humor, honesty, and warmth, Anil traces his journey from sudden blindness and early misconceptions about rehabilitation to discovering the Federation's philosophy of high expectations, love, and accountability. Find this episode at: Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/anil-lewis-keynote-address-at-pa-state-convention/id1592248709?i=1000738772303 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/1uUuORnubQC3pCa9sOYUqR YouTube https://youtu.be/M_fjMoBG5tE?si=nnJl7cU1kUmdYOBe White Canes Connect Website https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/146/      My Podcast Gear Here is all my gear and links to it on Amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associates Program and earn a commission on qualifying purchases. Zoom Podtrak P4: https://amzn.to/33Ymjkt Zoom ZDM Mic & Headphone Pack: https://amzn.to/33vLn2s Zoom H1n Recorder: https://amzn.to/3zBxJ9O  Gator Frameworks Desk Mounted Boom Arm: https://amzn.to/3AjJuBK Shure SM58 S Mic: https://amzn.to/3JOzofg  Sony ZV-E10 camera : https://amzn.to/4fFBSxM  GoPro Hero 11 Black: https://amzn.to/3SKI7WX Rode Video Micro (used on GoPro): https://amzn.to/4kVMJWI Sennheiser Headset (1st 162 episodes): https://amzn.to/3fM0Hu0  Follow iCantCU on your favorite podcast directory! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/icantcu-podcast/id1445801370/  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nck2D5HgD9ckSaUQaWwW2  Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/iCantCU-Podcast-Podcast/B08JJM26BT  IHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-icantcu-podcast-31157111/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU   Connect on Social Media Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidbenj Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidbenj Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidbenj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbenj Are You or Do You Know A Blind Boss? If you or someone you know is crushing it in their field and is also blind, I want to hear from you! Call me at (646) 926-6350 and leave a message. Please include your name and town, and tell me who the Blind Boss is and why I need to have them on an upcoming episode. You can also email the show at iCantCUPodcast@gmail.com.

What happens when a lifetime in broadcast news meets faith, purpose, and a desire to share hope instead of headlines? In this milestone episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with John and Val Clark, hosts of The Clark Report, to talk about life after the newsroom, marriage, service, and seeing the world through a biblical lens. John reflects on more than four decades in television news and the emotional weight of covering tragedy, while Val shares her journey as a teacher, volunteer, and financial coach helping families regain control of their money. Together, we explore retirement, resilience, faith, and why focusing on what you can control is key to living with less fear and more intention. This is a thoughtful conversation about perspective, purpose, and building an Unstoppable mindset grounded in hope. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear why John and Val shifted from reporting the news to sharing hope through a faith-based podcast. 07:38 – Learn how decades of early-morning news work shaped resilience, discipline, and perspective. 12:36 – Discover how focusing on what you can control helps reduce fear in moments of crisis. 26:04 – Learn how budgeting from a biblical perspective can help people regain financial stability. 39:19 – Hear how The Clark Report chooses topics that bring faith and hope into today's headlines. 52:36 – Understand how communication, compromise, and shared purpose strengthen marriage and teamwork. About the Guest: John and Val Blanding Clark are the producers and co-hosts of The Clark Report, a weekly faith-based podcast that looks at current headlines from a biblical perspective. John and Val have been married 39 years. They currently live in central North Carolina and have two adult children. John is a recently retired news broadcaster with more than four decades of experience. He retired last December after serving as morning news anchor for the ABC-TV station in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina, a post he held for 32 years.  During his broadcasting career John covered it all: political races, weather emergencies, crime and punishment, human interest stories, and even a few celebrity interviews.  He has a Bachelor's degree in Journalism from Penn State University, and is currently pursuing a Master's in Biblical Exposition from Liberty University.  John is a native of Philadelphia. Val Blanding Clark is a native of Wilmington, North Carolina, and is a former elementary school teacher. She has a Bachelor's degree in Elementary Education from the University of North Carolina at Wilmington. Since leaving the teaching profession, Val has volunteered countless hours for various non-profits, including serving many years in PTA leadership and as a charity fundraiser.  She is also a trained Budget Coach with Crown Financial Ministries, assisting families and individuals in getting their household finances under control. In addition, Val is a longtime blogger, posting regularly online about Christian living. John and Val have both served as Sunday School teachers, Marriage Mentors, and volunteers for many church outreach projects in the community. Additionally, John has served as a church Deacon and Elder. You can check out their new podcast, The Clark Report, on YouTube and Spotify, or go to their website, TheClarkReport.com. They drop a new episode each Wednesday.  Ways to connect with John and Val**:** Webpage: TheClarkReport.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when curiosity, resilience, and storytelling collide over a lifetime of building What does it really take to build an Unstoppable career in publishing without shortcuts or hype? In this episode, I sit down with publicist Mickey Mickelson to talk about the real work behind book promotion, author branding, and long-term visibility. Mickey shares his journey from banking into publishing, how Creative Edge grew from one client to over one hundred, and why most authors misunderstand marketing, social media, and publicity. We explore why relationships matter more than bestseller lists, how authors limit themselves by staying inside their genre, and why professionalism is non-negotiable in media. This conversation is a practical look at what it takes to build trust, credibility, and an Unstoppable presence in today's publishing world. Highlights: 00:09 – Hear why relationships, not hype, sit at the core of an Unstoppable publishing career.03:56 – Learn how real-world work experience shaped a practical approach to marketing and publicity.05:33 – Discover how Creative Edge was built around connection, vision, and long-term thinking.10:29 – Understand what publicists actually look for before agreeing to represent an author.12:16 – See why traditional publishing myths still hold authors back today.16:37 – Learn why social media presence directly impacts the success of media opportunities.21:09 – Understand how authors limit themselves by focusing only on genre.27:08 – Hear why professionalism and follow-through matter more than talent alone.39:28 – Learn why books do not stop being marketable after six months.54:09 – Discover what authors can do right now to build stronger branding and visibility. About the Guest: Mickey Mikkelson is the founder of Creative Edge Publicity.  Mickey graduated from the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology with a Marketing Diploma in 1996. In 2006, he began his work in the literary and bookseller industry as the Special Events Manager for Chapters/Indigo, Canada's largest bookstore chain, in St. Albert, Alberta.   In 2015, he formed Creative Edge Publicity, an aggressive publicity firm that specializes in advocating for both the traditional and independent artist. Since founding Creative Edge, Mickey has signed some of the top talents in the literary industry, including multiple award-winning authors, New York Times and USA Today bestselling authors, and successful indie authors, many of whom have become international bestselling authors while working within the Creative Edge brand. Creative Edge was also listed at the Publicist Of The Year for 2024 by USA Global TV and works in tandem representing a number of authors with the award-winning social media and book marketing firm, Abundantly Social located in Houston TX. Ways to connect with Mickey**:** Website:  Creative Edge Publicity - Home Facebook: (19) Facebook Instagram: Instagram LinkedIn: Creative Edge | LinkedIn About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

What happens when curiosity, resilience, and storytelling collide over a lifetime of building something meaningful? In this episode, I welcome Nick Francis, founder and CEO of Casual Films, for a thoughtful conversation about leadership, presence, and what it takes to keep going when the work gets heavy. Nick's journey began with a stint at BBC News and a bold 9,000-mile rally from London to Mongolia in a Mini Cooper, a spirit of adventure that still fuels how he approaches business and life today. We talk about how that early experience shaped Casual into a global branded storytelling company with studios across five continents, and what it really means to lead a creative organization at scale. Nick shares insights from growing the company internationally, expanding into Southeast Asia, and staying grounded while producing hundreds of projects each year. Along the way, we explore why emotionally resonant storytelling matters, how trust and preparation beat panic, and why presence with family, health, and purpose keeps leaders steady in uncertain times. This conversation is about building an Unstoppable life by focusing on what matters most, using creativity to connect people, and choosing clarity and resilience in a world full of noise. Highlights: 00:01:30 – Learn how early challenges shape resilience and long-term drive. 00:06:20 – Discover why focusing on your role creates calm under pressure. 00:10:50 – Learn how to protect attention in a nonstop world. 00:18:25 – Understand what global growth teaches about leadership. 00:26:00 – Learn why leading with trust changes relationships. 00:45:55 – Discover how movement and presence restore clarity. About the Guest: Nick Francis is the founder and CEO of Casual, a global production group that blends human storytelling, business know-how, and creativity turbo-charged by AI. Named the UK's number one brand video production company for five years, Casual delivers nearly 1,000 projects annually for world-class brands like Adobe, Amazon, BMW, Hilton, HSBC, and P&G. The adventurous spirit behind its first production – a 9,000-mile journey from London to Mongolia in an old Mini – continues to drive Casual's growth across offices in London, New York, LA, San Francisco, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Sydney, Singapore, Hong Kong and Greater China. Nick previously worked for BBC News and is widely recognised for his expertise in video storytelling, brand building, and corporate communications. He is the founding director of the Casual Films Academy, a charity helping young filmmakers develop skills by producing films for charitable organisations. He is also the author of ‘The New Fire: Harness the Power of Video for Your Business' and a passionate advocate for emotionally resonant, behaviorally grounded storytelling. Nick lives in San Francisco, California, with his family. Ways to connect with Nick**:** Website: https://www.casualfilms.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@casual_global  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casualglobal/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CasualFilms/  Nick's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickfrancisfilm/  Casual's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/casual-films-international/  Beyond Casual - LinkedIn Newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=6924458968031395840 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hello everyone. I am your host, Mike hingson, that's kind of funny. We'll talk about that in a second, but this is unstoppable mindset. And our guest today is Nick Francis, and what we're going to talk about is the fact that people used to always ask me, well, they would call me Mr. Kingston, and it took me, as I just told Nick a master's degree in physics in 10 years to realize that if I said Mike hingson, that's why they said Mr. Kingston. So was either say Mike hingson or Michael hingson. Well, Michael hingson is a lot easier to say than Mike hingson, but I don't really care Mike or Michael, as long as it's not late for dinner. Whatever works. Yeah. Well, Nick, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're Nick Francis  02:04 here. Thanks, Mike. It's great to be here. Michael Hingson  02:08 So Nick is a marketing kind of guy. He's got a company called casual that we'll hear about. Originally from England, I believe, and now lives in San Francisco. We were talking about the weather in San Francisco, as opposed to down here in Victorville. A little bit earlier. We're going to have a heat wave today and and he doesn't have that up there, but you know, well, things, things change over time. But anyway, we're glad you're here. And thanks, Mike. Really looking forward to it. Tell us about the early Nick growing up and all that sort of stuff, just to get us started. Nick Francis  02:43 That's a good question. I grew up in London, in in Richmond, which is southwest London. It's a at the time, it wasn't anything like as kind of, it's become quite kind of shishi, I think back in the day, because it's on the west of London. The pollution from the city used to flow east and so, like all the kind of well to do people, in fact, there used to be a, there used to be a palace in Richmond. It's where Queen Elizabeth died, the first Queen Elizabeth, that is. And, yeah, you know, I grew up it was, you know, there's a lot of rugby played around there. I played rugby for my local rugby club from a very young age, and we went sailing on the south coast. It was, it was great, really. And then, you know, unfortunately, when I was 10 years old, my my dad died. He had had a very powerful job at the BBC, and then he ran the British Council, which is the overseas wing of the Arts Council, so promoting, I guess, British soft power around the world, going and opening art galleries and going to ballet in Moscow and all sorts. So he had an incredible life and worked incredibly hard. And you know, that has brought me all sorts of privileges, I think, when I was a kid. But, you know, unfortunately, age 10 that all ended. And you know, losing a parent at that age is such a sort of fundamental, kind of shaking of your foundations. You know, you when you're a kid, you feel like a, you're going to live forever, and B, the things that are happening around you are going to last forever. And so, you know, you know, my mom was amazing, of course, and, you know, and in time, I got a new stepdad, and all the rest of it. But you know, that kind of shaped a lot of my a lot of my youth, really. And, yeah, I mean, Grief is a funny thing, and it's funny the way it manifests itself as you grow. But yeah. So I grew up there. I went to school in the Midlands, near where my stepdad lived, and then University of Newcastle, which is up in the north of England, where it rains a lot. It's where it's where Newcastle Football Club is based. And you know is that is absolutely at the center of the city. So. So the city really comes alive there. And it was during that time that I discovered photography, and I wanted to be a war photographer, because I believe that was where life was lived at the kind of the real cutting edge. You know, you see the you see humanity in its in its most visceral and vivid color in terrible situations. And I kind of that seemed like an interesting thing to go to go and do. Michael Hingson  05:27 Well, what? So what did you major in in college in Newcastle? So I did Nick Francis  05:31 history and politics, and then I went did a course in television journalism, and ended up working at BBC News as a initially running on the floor. So I used to deliver the papers that you know, when you see people shuffling or not, they do it anymore, actually, because everything, everything's digital now digital, yeah, but when they were worried about the the auto cues going down, they we always had to make sure that they had the up to date script. And so I would be printing in, obviously, the, you know, because it's a three hour news show, the scripts constantly evolving, and so, you know, I was making sure they had the most up to date version in their hands. And it's, I don't know if you have spent any time around live TV Mike, but it's an incredibly humbling experience, like the power of it. You know, there's sort of two or 3 million people watching these two people who are sitting five feet in front of me, and the, you know, the sort of slightly kind of, there was an element of me that just wanted to jump in front of them and kind of go, ah. And, you know, never, ever work in live TV, ever again. But you know, anyway, I did that and ended up working as a producer, writing and developing, developing packets that would go out on the show, producing interviews and things. And, you know, I absolutely loved it. It was, it was a great time. But then I left to go and set up my company. Michael Hingson  06:56 I am amazed, even today, with with watching people on the news, and I've and I've been in a number of studios during live broadcasts and so on. But I'm amazed at how well, mostly, at least, I've been fortunate. Mostly, the people are able to read because they do have to read everything. It isn't like you're doing a lot of bad living in a studio. Obviously, if you are out with a story, out in the field, if you will, there, there may be more where you don't have a printed script to go by, but I'm amazed at the people in the studio, how much they are able to do by by reading it all completely. Nick Francis  07:37 It's, I mean, the whole experience is kind of, it's awe inspiring, really. And you know, when you first go into a Live, a live broadcast studio, and you see the complexity, and you know, they've got feeds coming in from all over the world, and you know, there's upwards of 100 people all working together to make it happen. And I remember talking to one of the directors at the time, and I was like, How on earth does this work? And he said, You know, it's simple. You everyone has a very specific job, and you know that as long as you do your bit of the job when it comes in front of you, then the show will go out. He said, where it falls over is when people start worrying about whether other people are going to are going to deliver on time or, you know, and so if you start worrying about what other people are doing, rather than just focusing on the thing you have to do, that's where it potentially falls over, Michael Hingson  08:29 which is a great object lesson anyway, to worry about and control and don't worry about the rest Nick Francis  08:36 for sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, it's almost a lesson for life. I mean, sorry, it is a lesson for life, and Michael Hingson  08:43 it's something that I talk a lot about in dealing with the World Trade Center and so on, and because it was a message I received, but I've been really preaching that for a long time. Don't worry about what you can't control, because all you're going to do is create fear and drive yourself Nick Francis  08:58 crazy, completely, completely. You know. You know what is it? Give me the, give me this. Give me the strength to change the things I can. Give me the give me the ability to let the things that I can't change slide but and the wisdom to know the difference. I'm absolutely mangling that, that saying, but, yeah, it's, it's true, you know. And I think, you know, it's so easy for us to in this kind of modern world where everything's so media, and we're constantly served up things that, you know, shock us, sadness, enrage us, you know, just to be able to step back and say, actually, you know what? These are things I can't really change. I'd have to just let them wash over me. Yeah, and just focus on the things that you really can change. Michael Hingson  09:46 It's okay to be aware of things, but you've got to separate the things you can control from the things that you can and we, unfortunately aren't taught that. Our parents don't teach us that because they were never taught it, and it's something. That, just as you say, slides by, and it's so unfortunate, because it helps to create such a level of fear about so many things in our in our psyche and in our world that we really shouldn't have to do Nick Francis  10:13 completely well. I think, you know, obviously, but you know, we've, we've spent hundreds, if not millions of years evolving to become humans, and then, you know, actually being aware of things beyond our own village has only been an evolution of the last, you know what, five, 600 years, yeah. And so we are just absolutely, fundamentally not able to cope with a world of such incredible stimulus that we live in now. Michael Hingson  10:43 Yeah, and it's only getting worse with all the social media, with all the different things that are happening and of course, and we're only working to develop more and more things to inundate us with more and more kinds of inputs. It's really unfortunate we just don't learn to separate ourselves very easily from all of that. Nick Francis  11:04 Yeah, well, you know, it's so interesting when you look at the development of VR headsets, and, you know, are we going to have, like, lenses in our eyes that kind of enable us to see computer screens while we're just walking down the road, you know? And you look at that and you think, well, actually, just a cell phone. I mean, cell phones are going to be gone fairly soon. I would imagine, you know, as a format, it's not something that's going to abide but the idea that we're going to create technology that's going to be more, that's going to take us away from being in the moment more rather than less, is kind of terrifying. Because, I would say already, even with, you know, the most basic technology that we have now, which is, you know, mind bending, compared to where we were even 20 years ago, you know, to think that we're only going to become more immersive is, you know, we really, really as a species, have to work out how we are going to be far better at stepping away from this stuff. And I, you know, I do, I wonder, with AI and technology whether there is, you know, there's a real backlash coming of people who do want to just unplug, yeah, Michael Hingson  12:13 well, it'll be interesting to see, and I hope that people will learn to do it. I know when I started hearing about AI, and one of the first things I heard was how kids would use it to write their papers, and it was a horrible thing, and they were trying to figure out ways so that teachers could tell us something was written by AI, as opposed to a student. And I almost immediately developed this opinion, no, let AI write the papers for students, but when the students turn in their paper, then take a day to in your class where you have every student come up and defend their paper, see who really knows it, you know. And what a great teaching opportunity and teaching moment to to get students also to learn to do public speaking and other things a little bit more than they do, but we haven't. That hasn't caught on, but I continue to preach it. Nick Francis  13:08 I think that's really smart, you know, as like aI exists, and I think to to pretend somehow that, you know, we can work without it is, you know, it's, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, it's like, well, saying, you know, we're just going to go back to Word processors or typewriters, which, you know, in which it weirdly, in their own time, people looked at and said, this is, you know, these, these are going to completely rot our minds. In fact, yeah, I think Plato said that was very against writing, because he believed it would mean no one could remember anything after that, you know. So it's, you know, it's just, it's an endless, endless evolution. But I think, you know, we have to work out how we incorporate into it, into our education system, for sure. Michael Hingson  13:57 Well, I remember being in in college and studying physics and so on. And one of the things that we were constantly told is, on tests, you can't bring calculators in, can't use calculators in class. Well, why not? Well, because you could cheat with that. Well, the reality is that the smart physicists realized that it's all about really learning the concepts more than the numbers. And yeah, that's great to to know how to do the math. But the the real issue is, do you know the physics, not just the math completely? Nick Francis  14:34 Yeah. And then how you know? How are the challenges that are being set such that you know, they really test your ability to use the calculator effectively, right? So how you know? How are you lifting the bar? And in a way, I think that's kind of what we have to do, what we have to do now, Michael Hingson  14:50 agreed, agreed. So you were in the news business and so on, and then, as you said, you left to start your own company. Why did you decide to do that? Nick Francis  14:59 Well, a friend of. Ryan and I from University had always talked about doing this rally from London to Mongolia. So, and you do it in an old car that you sort of look at, and you go, well, that's a bit rubbish. It has to have under a one liter engine. So it's tiny, it's cheap. The idea is it breaks down you have an adventure. And it was something we kind of talked about in passing and decided that would be a good thing to do. And then over time, you know, we started sending off. We you know, we applied, and then we started sending off for visas and things. And then before we knew it, we were like, gosh, so it looks like we're actually going to do this thing. But by then, you know, my job at the BBC was really taking off. And so I said, you know, let's do this, but let's make a documentary of it. So long story short, we ended up making a series of diary films for Expedia, which we uploaded onto their website. It was, you know, we were kind of pitching this around about 2005 we kind of did it in 2006 so it was kind of, you know, nobody had really heard of YouTube. The idea of making videos to go online was kind of unheard of because, you know, broadband was just kind of getting sorry. It wasn't unheard of, but it was, it was very, it was a very nascent industry. And so, yeah, we went and drove 9000 miles over five weeks. We spent a week sitting in various different repair yards and kind of break his yards in everywhere from Turkey to Siberia. And when we came back, it became clear that the internet was opening up as this incredible medium for video, and video is such a powerful way to share emotion with a dispersed audience. You know, not that I would have necessarily talked about it in that in those terms back then, but it really seemed like, you know, every every web page, every piece of corporate content, could have a video aspect to it. And so we came back and had a few fits and starts and did some, I mean, we, you know, we made a series of hotel videos where we were paid 50 quid a day to go and film hotels. And it was hot and it was hard work. And anyway, it was rough. But over time, you know, we started to win some more lucrative work. And, you know, really, the company grew from there. We won some awards, which helped us to kind of make a bit of a name for ourselves. And this was, there's been a real explosion in technology, kind of shortly after when we did this. So digital SLRs, so, you know, old kind of SLR cameras, you know, turned into digital cameras, which could then start to shoot video. And so it, there was a real explosion in high quality video produced by very small teams of people using the latest technology creatively. And that just felt like a good kind of kick off point for our business. But we just kind of because we got in in kind of 2006 we just sort of beat a wave that kind of started with digital SLRs, and then was kind of absolutely exploded when video cell phones came on the market, video smartphones. And yeah, you know, because we had these awards and we had some kind of fairly blue chip clients from a relatively early, early stage, we were able to grow the company. We then expanded to the US in kind of 2011 20 between 2011 2014 and then we were working with a lot of the big tech companies in California, so it felt like we should maybe kind of really invest in that. And so I moved out here with some of our team in 2018 at the beginning of 2018 and I've been here ever since, wow. Michael Hingson  18:44 So what is it? What was it like starting a business here, or bringing the business here, as opposed to what it was in England? Nick Francis  18:53 It's really interesting, because the creatively the UK is so strong, you know, like so many, you know, from the Beatles to Led Zeppelin to the Rolling Stones to, you know, and then on through, like all the kind of, you know, film and TV, you know, Brits are very good at kind of Creating, like, high level creative, but not necessarily always the best at kind of monetizing it, you know. I mean, some of those obviously have been fantastic successes, right? And so I think in the UK, we we take a lot longer over getting, getting to, like, the perfect creative output, whereas the US is far more focused on, you know, okay, we need this to to perform a task, and frankly, if we get it 80% done, then we're good, right? And so I think a lot of creative businesses in the UK look at the US and they go, gosh. Firstly, the streets are paved with gold. Like the commercial opportunity seems incredible, but actually creating. Tracking it is incredibly difficult, and I think it's because we sort of see the outputs in the wrong way. I think they're just the energy and the dynamism of the US economy is just, it's kind of awe inspiring. But you know, so many businesses try to expand here and kind of fall over themselves. And I think the number one thing is just, you have to have a founder who's willing to move to the US. Because I think Churchill said that we're two two countries divided by the same language. And I never fully understood what that meant until I moved here. I think what it what he really means by that is that we're so culturally different in the US versus the UK. And I think lots of Brits look at America and think, Well, you know, it's just the same. It's just a bit kind of bigger and a bit Brasher, you know, and it and actually, I think if people in the US spoke a completely different language, we would approach it as a different culture, which would then help us to understand it better. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, it's been, it's been the most fabulous adventure to move here and to, you know, it's, it's hard sometimes, and California is a long way from home, but the energy and the optimism and the entrepreneurialism of it, coupled with just the natural beauty is just staggering. So we've made some of our closest friends in California, it's been absolutely fantastic. And across the US, it's been a fantastic adventure for us and our family. Michael Hingson  21:30 Yeah, I've had the opportunity to travel all over the US, and I hear negative comments about one place or another, like West Virginia, people eat nothing but fried food and all that. But the reality is, if you really take an overall look at it, the country has so much to offer, and I have yet to find a place that I didn't enjoy going to, and people I never enjoyed meeting, I really enjoy all of that, and it's great to meet people, and it's great to experience so much of this country. And I've taken that same posture to other places. I finally got to visit England last October, for the first time. You mentioned rugby earlier, the first time I was exposed to rugby was when I traveled to New Zealand in 2003 and found it pretty fascinating. And then also, I was listening to some rugby, rugby, rugby broadcast, and I tuned across the radio and suddenly found a cricket game that was a little bit slow for me. Yeah, cricket to be it's slow. Nick Francis  22:41 Yeah, fair enough. It's funny. Actually, we know what you're saying about travel. Like one of the amazing things about our Well, I kind of learned two sort of quite fundamentally philosophical things, I think, you know, or things about the about humans and the human condition. Firstly, like, you know, traveling across, you know, we left from London. We, like, drove down. We went through Belgium and France and Poland and Slovenia, Slovakia, Slovenia, like, all the way down Bulgaria, across Turkey into Georgia and Azerbaijan and across the Caspian Sea, and through Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, into Russia, and then down into Mongolia. When we finished, we were due north of Jakarta, right? So we drove, we drove a third of the way around the world. And the two things that taught me were, firstly that human people are good. You know, everywhere we went, people would invite us in to have meals, or they'd like fix our car for not unit for free. I mean, people were so kind everywhere we went. Yeah. And the other thing was, just, when we get on a plane and you fly from here to or you fly from London, say to we, frankly, you fly from London to Turkey, it feels unbelievably different. You know, you fly from London to China, and it's, you know, complete different culture. But what our journey towards us, because we drove, was that, you know, while we might not like to admit it, we're actually quite, you know, Brits are quite similar to the French, and the French actually are quite similar to the Belgians, and Belgians quite similar to the Germans. And, you know, and all the way through, actually, like we just saw a sort of slowly changing gradient of all the different cultures. And it really, you know, we are just one people, you know. So as much as we might feel that, you know, we're all we're all different, actually, when you see it, when you when you do a drive like that, you really, you really get to see how slowly the cultures shift and change. Another thing that's quite funny, actually, was just like, everywhere we went, we would be like, you know, we're driving to Turkey. They'd be like, Oh, God, you just drove through Bulgaria, you know, how is like, everything on your car not been stolen, you know, they're so dodgy that you Bulgarians are so dodgy. And then, you know, we'd get drive through the country, and they'd be like, you know, oh, you're going into Georgia, you know, gosh, what you go. Make, make sure everything's tied down on your car. They're so dodgy. And then you get into Georgia, and they're like, Oh my God, you've just very driven through Turkey this, like, everyone sort of had these, like, weird, yeah, kind of perceptions of their neighbors. And it was all nonsense, yeah, you know. Michael Hingson  25:15 And the reality is that, as you pointed out, people are good, you know, I think, I think politicians are the ones who so often mess it up for everyone, just because they've got agendas. And unfortunately, they teach everyone else to be suspicious of of each other, because, oh, this person clearly has a hidden agenda when it normally isn't necessarily true at all. Nick Francis  25:42 No, no, no, certainly not in my experience, anyway, not in my experience. But, you know, well, oh, go ahead. No, no. It's just, you know, it's, it is. It's, it is weird the way that happens, you know, well, they say, you know, if, if politicians fought wars rather than, rather than our young men and women, then there'd be a lot less of them. Yeah, so Well, Michael Hingson  26:06 there would be, well as I tell people, you know, I I've learned a lot from working with eight guy dogs and my wife's service dog, who we had for, oh, gosh, 14 years almost, and one of the things that I tell people is I absolutely do believe what people say, that dogs love unconditionally, unless they're just totally traumatized by something, but they don't trust unconditionally. The difference between dogs and people is that dogs are more open to trust because we've taught ourselves and have been taught by others, that everyone has their own hidden agenda. So we don't trust. We're not open to trust, which is so unfortunate because it affects the psyche of so many people in such a negative way. We get too suspicious of people, so it's a lot harder to earn trust. Nick Francis  27:02 Yeah, I mean, I've, I don't know, you know, like I've been, I've been very fortunate in my life, and I kind of always try to be, you know, open and trusting. And frankly, you know, I think if you're open and trusting with people, in my experience, you kind of, it comes back to you, you know, and maybe kind of looking for the best in everyone. You know, there are times where that's not ideal, but you know, I think you know, in the overwhelming majority of cases, you know, actually, you know, you treat people right? And you know what goes what goes around, comes around, absolutely. Michael Hingson  27:35 And I think that's so very true. There are some people who just are going to be different than that, but I think for the most part, if you show that you're open to trust people will want to trust you, as long as you're also willing to trust Nick Francis  27:51 them completely. Yeah, completely. Michael Hingson  27:54 So I think that that's the big thing we have to deal with. And I don't know, I hope that we, we will learn it. But I think that politicians are really the most guilty about teaching us. Why not to trust but that too, hopefully, will be something we deal with. Nick Francis  28:12 I think, you know, I think we have to, you know, it's, it's one of the tragedies of our age, I think, is that the, you know, we spent the 20th century, thinking that sex was the kind of ultimate sales tool. And then it took algorithms to for us to realize that actually anger and resentment are the most powerful sales tools, which is, you know, it's a it's something which, in time, we will work out, right? And I think the problem is that, at the minute, these tech businesses are in such insane ascendancy, and they're so wealthy that it's very hard to regulate them. And I think in time, what will happen is, you know, they'll start to lose some of that luster and some of that insane scale and that power, and then, you know, then regulation will come in. But you know whether or not, we'll see maybe, hopefully our civilization will still be around to see that. Michael Hingson  29:04 No, there is that, or maybe the Vulcans will show up and show us a better way. But you know, Nick Francis  29:11 oh, you know, I'm, I'm kind of endlessly optimistic. I think, you know, we are. We're building towards a very positive future. I think so. Yeah, it's just, you know, get always bumps along the way, yeah. Michael Hingson  29:24 So you named your company casual. Why did you do that? Or how did that come about? Nick Francis  29:30 It's a slightly weird name for something, you know, we work with, kind of, you know, global blue chip businesses. And, you know, casual is kind of the last thing that you would want to associate with, a, with a, with any kind of services business that works in that sphere. I think, you know, we, the completely honest answer is that the journalism course I did was television, current affairs journalism, so it's called TV cadge, and so we, when we made a film for a local charity as part of that course. Course, we were asked to name our company, and we just said, well, cash, cash casual, casual films. So we called it casual films. And then when my friend and I set the company up, kind of formally, to do the Mongol Rally, we, you know, we had this name, you know, the company, the film that we'd made for the charity, had gone down really well. It had been played at BAFTA in London. And so we thought, well, you know, we should just, you know, hang on to that name. And it didn't, you know, at the time, it didn't really seem too much of an issue. It was only funny. It was coming to the US, where I think people are a bit more literal, and they were a bit like, well, casual. Like, why casual, you know. And I remember being on a shoot once. And, you know, obviously, kind of some filmmakers can be a little casual themselves, not necessarily in the work, but in the way they present themselves, right? And I remember sitting down, we were interviewing this CEO, and he said, who, you know, who are you? Oh, we're casual films. He's like, Oh, is that why that guy's got ripped jeans? Is it? And I just thought, Damn, you know, we really left ourselves open to that. There was also, there was a time one of our early competitors was called Agile films. And so, you know, I remember talking to one of our clients who said, you know, it's casual, you know, when I have to put together a little document to say, you know, which, which supplier we should choose, and when I lay it on my boss's desk, and one says casual films, and one says agile films, it's like those guys are landing the first punch. But anyway, we, you know, we, what we say now is like, you know, we take a complex process and make it casual. You know, filmmaking, particularly for like, large, complex organizations where you've got lots of different stakeholders, can be very complicated. And so, yeah, we sort of say, you know, we'll take a lot of that stress off, off our clients. So that's kind of the rationale, you know, that we've arrived with, arrived at having spoken to lots of our clients about the role that we play for them. So, you know, there's a kind of positive spin on it, I guess, but I don't know. I don't know whether I'd necessarily call it casual again. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that or not, but, oh, Michael Hingson  32:00 it's unique, you know? So, yeah, I think there's a lot of merit to it. It's a unique name, and it interests people. I know, for me, one of the things that I do is I have a way of doing this. I put all of my business cards in Braille, so the printed business cards have Braille on them, right? Same thing. It's unique completely. Nick Francis  32:22 And you listen, you know what look your name is an empty box that you fill with your identity. They say, right? And casual is actually, it's something we've grown into. And you know it's we've been going for nearly 20 years. In fact, funny enough for the end of this year is the 20th anniversary of that first film we made for the for the charity. And then next summer will be our 20th anniversary, which is, you know, it's, it's both been incredibly short and incredibly long, you know, I think, like any kind of experience in life, and it's been some of the hardest kind of times of my entire life, and some of the best as well. So, you know, it's, it is what it is, but you know, casual is who we are, right? I would never check, you know? I'd never change it. Michael Hingson  33:09 Now, no, of course not, yeah. So is the actual name casual films, or just casual? Nick Francis  33:13 So it was casual films, but then everyone calls us casual anyway, and I think, like as an organization, we probably need to be a bit more agnostic about the outcome. Michael Hingson  33:22 Well, the reason I asked, in part was, is there really any filming going on anymore? Nick Francis  33:28 Well, that's a very that's a very good question. But have we actually ever made a celluloid film? And I think the answer is probably no. We used to, back in the day, we used to make, like, super eight films, which were films, I think, you know, video, you know, ultimately, if you're going to be really pedantic about it, it's like, well, video is a digital, digital delivery. And so basically, every film we make is, is a video. But there is a certain cachet to the you know, because our films are loved and crafted, you know, for good or ill, you know, I think to call them, you know, they are films because, because of the, you know, the care that's put into them. But it's not, it's, it's not celluloid. No, that's okay, yeah, well, Michael Hingson  34:16 and I know that, like with vinyl records, there is a lot of work being done to preserve and capture what's on cellular film. And so there's a lot of work that I'm sure that's being done to digitize a lot of the old films. And when you do that, then you can also go back and remaster and hopefully in a positive way, and I'm not sure if that always happens, but in a positive way, enhance them Nick Francis  34:44 completely, completely and, you know, it's, you know, it's interesting talking about, like, you know, people wanting to step back. You know, obviously vinyl is having an absolute as having a moment right now. In fact, I just, I just bought a new stylist for my for my record. Play yesterday. It sounded incredible as a joy. This gave me the sound quality of this new style. It's fantastic. You know, beyond that, you know, running a company, you know, we're in nine offices all over the world. We produce nearly 1000 projects a year. So, you know, it's a company. It's an incredibly complicated company. It's a very fun and exciting company. I love the fact that we make these beautifully creative films. But, you know, it's a bit, I wouldn't say it's like, I don't know, you don't get many MBAs coming out of business school saying, hey, I want to set up a video production company. But, you know, it's been, it's been wonderful, but it's also been stressful. And so, you know, I've, I've always been interested in pottery and ceramics and making stuff with my hands. When I was a kid, I used to make jewelry, and I used to go and sell it in nightclubs, which is kind of weird, but, you know, it paid for my beers. And then whatever works, I say kid. I was 18. I was, I was of age, but of age in the UK anyway. But now, you know, over the last few 18 months or so, I've started make, doing my own ceramics. So, you know, I make vases and and pictures and kind of all sorts of stuff out of clay. And it's just, it's just to be to unplug and just to go and, you know, make things with mud with your hands. It's just the most unbelievably kind of grounding experience. Michael Hingson  36:26 Yeah, I hear you, yeah. One of the things that I like to do is, and I don't get to do it as much as I would like, but I am involved with organizations like the radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound, which, every year, does recreations of old radio shows. And so we get the scripts we we we have several blind people who are involved in we actually go off and recreate some of the old shows, which is really a lot of fun, Nick Francis  36:54 I bet, yeah, yeah, sort of you know that connection to the past is, is, yeah, it's great radio. Radio is amazing. Michael Hingson  37:03 Anyway, what we have to do is to train some of the people who have not had exposure to old radio. We need to train them as to how to really use their voices to convey like the people who performed in radio, whatever they're doing, because too many people don't really necessarily know how to do that well. And it is, it is something that we're going to work on trying to find ways to get people really trained. And one of the ways, of course, is you got to listen to the old show. So one of the things we're getting more and more people to do when we do recreations is to go back and listen to the original show. Well, they say, Well, but, but that's just the way they did it. That's not necessarily the way it should be done. And the response is, no, that's not really true. The way they did it sounded natural, and the way you are doing it doesn't and there's reality that you need to really learn how to to use your voice to convey well, and the only way to do it is to listen to the experts who did it. Nick Francis  38:06 Yeah, well, it's, you know, it's amazing. The, you know, when the BBC was founded, all the news readers and anyone who appeared on on the radio to to present or perform, had to wear like black tie, like a tuxedo, because it was, you know, they're broadcasting to the nation, so they had to, you know, they had to be dressed appropriately, right, which is kind of amazing. And, you know, it's interesting how you know, when you, when you change your dress, when you change the way you're sitting, it does completely change the way that you project yourself, yeah, Michael Hingson  38:43 it makes sense, yeah, well, and I always enjoyed some of the old BBC radio shows, like the Goon Show, and completely some of those are so much fun. Nick Francis  38:54 Oh, great, yeah, I don't think they were wearing tuxedo. It's tuxedos. They would Michael Hingson  38:59 have been embarrassed. Yeah, right, right. Can you imagine Peter Sellers in a in a tux? It just isn't going to happen. Nick Francis  39:06 No, right, right. But yeah, no, it's so powerful. You know, they say radio is better than TV because the pictures are better. Michael Hingson  39:15 I agree. Yeah, sure, yeah. Well, you know, I I don't think this is quite the way he said it, but Fred Allen, the old radio comedian, once said they call television the new medium, because that's as good as it's ever going Nick Francis  39:28 to get. Yeah, right, right, yeah. Michael Hingson  39:32 I think there's truth to it. Whether that's exactly the way he said it or not, there's truth to that, yeah, but there's also a lot of good stuff on TV, so it's okay. Nick Francis  39:41 Well, it's so interesting. Because, you know, when you look at the it's never been more easy to create your own content, yeah, and so, you know, and like, in a way, TV, you know, he's not wrong in that, because it suddenly opened up this, this huge medium for people just to just create. Right? And, you know, and I think, like so many people, create without thinking, and, you know, and certainly in our kind of, in the in the world that we're living in now with AI production, making production so much more accessible, actually taking the time as a human being just to really think about, you know, who are the audience, what are the things that are going to what are going to kind of resonate with them? You know? Actually, I think one of the risks with AI, and not just AI, but just like production being so accessible, is that you can kind of shoot first and kind of think about it afterwards, and, you know, and that's never good. That's always going to be medium. It's medium at best, frankly. Yeah, so yeah, to create really great stuff takes time, you know, yeah, to think about it. Yeah, for sure, yeah. Michael Hingson  40:50 Well, you know, our podcast is called unstoppable mindset. What do you think that unstoppable mindset really means to you as a practical thing and not just a buzzword. Because so many people talk about the kinds of buzzwords I hear all the time are amazing. That's unstoppable, but it's really a lot more than a buzzword. It goes back to what you think, I think. But what do you think? Nick Francis  41:15 I think it's something that is is buried deep inside you. You know, I'd say the simple answer is, is just resilience. You know, it's, it's been rough. I write anyone running a small business or a medium sized business at the minute, you know, there's been some tough times over the last, kind of 1824, months or so. And, you know, I was talking to a friend of mine who she sold out of her business. And she's like, you know, how are things? I was like, you know, it's, it's, it's tough, you know, we're getting through it, you know, we're changing a lot of things, you know, we're like, we're definitely making the business better, but it's hard. And she's like, Listen, you know, when three years before I sold my company, I was at rock bottom. It was, I genuinely thought it was so stressful. I was crushed by it, but I just kept going. And she's just like, just keep going. And the only difference between success and failure is that resilience and just getting up every day and you just keep, keep throwing stuff at the wall, keep trying new things, keep working and trying to be better. I think, you know, it's funny when you look at entrepreneurs, I'm a member of a mentoring group, and I hope I'm not talking out of school here, but you know, there's 15 entrepreneurs, you know, varying sizes of business, doing all sorts, you know, across all sorts of different industries. And if you sat on the wall, if you were fly on the wall, and you sit and look at these people on a kind of week, month to month basis, and they all present on how their businesses are going. You go, this is this being an entrepreneur does not look like a uniformly fun thing, you know, the sort of the stress and just, you know, people crying and stuff, and you're like, gosh, you know, it's so it's, it's, it's hard, and yet, you know, it's people just keep coming back to it. And yet, I think it's because of that struggle that you have to kind of have something in built in you, that you're sort of, you're there to prove something. And I, you know, I've thought a lot about this, and I wonder whether, kind of, the death of my father at such a young age kind of gave me this incredible fire to seek His affirmation, you know. And unfortunately, obviously, the tragedy of that is like, you know, the one person who would never give me affirmation is my dad. And yet, you know, I get up every day, you know, to have early morning calls with the UK or with Singapore or wherever. And you know, you just just keep on, keeping on. And I think that's probably what and knowing I will never quit, you know, like, even from the earliest days of casual, when we were just, like a couple of people, and we were just, you know, kids doing our very best, I always knew the company was going to be a success act. Like, just a core belief that I was like, this is going to work. This is going to be a success. I didn't necessarily know what that success would look like. I just but I did know that, like, whatever it took, we would map, we'd map our way towards that figure it out. We'd figure it out. And I think, you know, there's probably something unstoppable. I don't know, I don't want to sound immodest, but I think there's probably something in that that you're just like, I am just gonna keep keep on, keeping on. Michael Hingson  44:22 Do you think that resilience and unstoppability are things that can be taught, or is it just something that's built into you, and either you have it or you don't? Nick Francis  44:31 I think it's something that probably, it's definitely something that can be learned, for sure, you know. And there are obviously ways that it can there's obviously ways it can be taught. You know, I was, I spent some time in the reserve, like the Army Reserve in the UK, and I just, you know, a lot of that is about teaching you just how much further you can go. I think what it taught me was it was so. So hard. I mean, honestly, some of the stuff we did in our training was, like, you know, it's just raining and raining and raining and, like, because all your kits soaking wet is weighs twice what it did before, and you just, you know, sleeping maybe, you know, an hour or two a night, and, you know, and there wasn't even anyone shooting at us, right? So, you know, like the worst bit wasn't even happening. But like, and like, in a sense, I think, you know, that's what they're trying to do, that, you know, they say, you know, train hard and fight easy. But I remember sort of sitting there, and I was just exhausted, and I just genuinely, I was just thought, you know, what if they tell me to go now, I just, I can't. I literally, I can't, I can't do it. Can't do it. And then they're like, right, lads, put your packs on. Let's go and just put your pack on. Off you go, you know, like, this sort of, the idea of not, like, I was never going to quit, just never, never, ever, you know, and like I'd physically, if I physically, like, literally, my physical being couldn't stand up, you know, I then that was be, that would be, you know, if I was kind of, like literally incapacitated. And I think what that taught me actually, was that, you know, you have what you believe you can do, like you have your sort of, you have your sort of physical envelope, but like that is only a third or a quarter of what you can actually achieve, right, you know. And I think what that, what the that kind of training is about, and you know, you can do it in marathon training. You can do it in all sorts of different, you know, even, frankly, meditate. You know, you train your mind to meditate for, you know, an hour, 90 minutes plus. You know, you're still doing the same. You know, there's a, there's an elasticity within your brain where you can teach yourself that your envelope is so much larger. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, like, is casual going to be a success? Like, I'm good, you know, I'm literally, I won't I won't stop until it is Michael Hingson  46:52 right, and then why stop? Exactly, exactly you continue to progress and move forward. Well, you know, when everything feels uncertain, whether it's the markets or whatever, what do you do or what's your process for finding clarity? Nick Francis  47:10 I think a lot of it is in having structured time away. I say structured. You build it into your calendar, but like, but it's unstructured. So, you know, I take a lot of solace in being physically fit. You know, I think if you're, if you feel physically fit, then you feel mentally far more able to deal with things. I certainly when I'm if I'm unfit and if I've been working too much and I haven't been finding the time to exercise. You know, I feel like the problems we have to face just loom so much larger. So, you know, I, I'll book out. I, you know, I work with a fan. I'm lucky enough to have a fantastic assistant who, you know, we book in my my exercise for each week, and it's almost the first thing that goes in the calendar. I do that because I can't be the business my my I can't be the leader my business requires. And it finally happened. It was a few years ago I kind of, like, the whole thing just got really big on me, and it just, you know, and I'm kind of, like, being crushed by it. And I just thought, you know what? Like, I can't, I can't fit other people's face mask, without my face mask being fit, fitted first. Like, in order to be the business my business, I keep saying that to be the lead in my business requires I have to be physically fit. So I have to look after myself first. And so consequently, like, you know, your exercise shouldn't be something just get squeezed in when you find when you have time, because, you know, if you've got family and you know, other things happening, like, you know, just will be squeezed out. So anyway, that goes in. First, I'll go for a bike ride on a Friday afternoon, you know, I'll often listen to a business book and just kind of process things. And it's amazing how often, you know, I'll just go for a run and, like, these things that have been kind of nagging away in the back of my mind, just suddenly I find clarity in them. So I try to exercise, like, five times a week. I mean, that's obviously more than most people can can manage, but you know that that really helps. And then kind of things, like the ceramics is very useful. And then, you know, I'm lucky. I think it's also just so important just to appreciate the things that you already have. You know, I think one of the most important lessons I learned last year was this idea that, you know, here is the only there. You know, everyone's working towards this kind of, like, big, you know, it's like, oh, you know, when I get to there, then everything's going to be okay, you know. And actually, you know, if you think about like, you know, and what did you want to achieve when you left college? Like, what was the salary band that you want? That you wanted to achieve? Right? A lot of people, you know, by the time you hit 4050, you've blown way through that, right? And yet you're still chasing the receding Summit, yeah, you know. And so actually, like, wherever we're trying to head to, we're already there, because once you get there, there's going to be another there that you're trying to. Head to right? So, so, you know, it's just taking a moment to be like, you know, God, I'm so lucky to have what I have. And, you know, I'm living in, we're living in the good old days, like right now, right? Michael Hingson  50:11 And the reality is that we're doing the same things and having the same discussions, to a large degree, that people did 50, 100 200 years ago. As you pointed out earlier, the fact is that we're, we're just having the same discussions about whether this works, or whether that works, or anything else. But it's all the same, Nick Francis  50:33 right, you know. And you kind of think, oh, you know, if I just, just, like, you know, if we just open up these new offices, or if we can just, you know, I think, like, look, if I, if I'd looked at casual when we started it as it is now, I would have just been like, absolute. My mind would have exploded, right? You know, if you look at what we've achieved, and yet, I kind of, you know, it's quite hard sometimes to look at it and just be like, Oh yeah, but we're only just starting. Like, there's so much more to go. I can see so much further work, that we need so many more things, that we need to do, so many more things that we could do. And actually, you know, they say, you know, I'm lucky enough to have two healthy, wonderful little girls. And you know, I think a lot of bread winners Look at, look at love being provision, and the idea that, you know, you have to be there to provide for them. And actually, the the truest form of love is presence, right? And just being there for them, and like, you know, not being distracted and kind of putting putting things aside, you know, not jumping on your emails or your Slack messages or whatever first thing in the morning, you know. And I, you know, I'm not. I'm guilty, like, I'm not, you know, I'm not one of these people who have this kind of crazy kind of morning routine where, like, you know, I'm incredibly disciplined about that because, you know, and I should be more. But like, you know, this stuff, one of the, one of the things about having a 24 hour business with people working all over the world is there's always things that I need to respond to. There's always kind of interesting things happening. And so just like making sure that I catch myself every so often to be like, I'm just going to be here now and I'm going to be with them, and I'm going to listen to what they're saying, and I'm going to respond appropriately, and, you know, I'm going to play a game with them, or whatever. That's true love. You know? Michael Hingson  52:14 Well, there's a lot of merit to the whole concept of unplugging and taking time and living in the moment. One of the things that we talked about in my book live like a guide dog, that we published last year, and it's all about lessons I've learned about leadership and teamwork and preparedness from eight guide dogs and my wife's service dog. One of the things that I learned along the way is the whole concept of living in the moment when I was in the World Trade Center with my fifth guide dog, Roselle. We got home, and I was going to take her outside to go visit the bathroom, but as soon as I took the harness off, she shot off, grabbed her favorite tug bone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog. Asked the veterinarians about him the next day, the people at Guide Dogs for the Blind, and they said, Well, did anything threaten her? And I said, No. And they said, there's your answer. The reality is, dogs live in the moment when it was over. It was over. And yeah, right lesson to learn. Nick Francis  53:15 I mean, amazing, absolutely amazing. You must have taken a lot of strength from that. Michael Hingson  53:20 Oh, I think it was, it was great. It, you know, I can look back at my life and look at so many things that have happened, things that I did. I never thought that I would become a public speaker, but I learned in so many ways the art of speaking and being relaxed at speaking in a in a public setting, that when suddenly I was confronted with the opportunity to do it, it just seemed like the natural thing to do. Nick Francis  53:46 Yeah, it's funny, because I think isn't public speaking the number one fear. It is. It's the most fit. It's the most feared thing for the most people. Michael Hingson  53:57 And the reality is going back to something that we talked about before. The reality is, audiences want you to succeed, unless you're a jerk and you project that, audiences want to hear what you have to say. They want you to be successful. There's really nothing to be afraid of but, but you're right. It is the number one fear, and I've never understood that. I mean, I guess I can intellectually understand it, but internally, I don't. The first time I was asked to speak after the World Trade Center attacks, a pastor called me up and he said, we're going to we're going to have a service outside for all the people who we lost in New Jersey and and that we would like you to come and speak. Take a few minutes. And I said, Sure. And then I asked him, How many people many people were going to be at the service? He said, 6000 that was, that was my first speech. Nick Francis  54:49 Yeah, wow. But it didn't bother me, you know, no, I bet Michael Hingson  54:54 you do the best you can, and you try to improve, and so on. But, but it is true that so many people. Are public speaking, and there's no reason to what Nick Francis  55:03 did that whole experience teach you? Michael Hingson  55:06 Well, one of the things that taught me was, don't worry about the things that you can't control. It also taught me that, in reality, any of us can be confronted with unexpected things at any time, and the question is, how well do we prepare to deal with it? So for me, for example, and it took me years after September 11 to recognize this, but one of the things that that happened when the building was hit, and Neither I, nor anyone on my side of the building really knew what happened. People say all the time, well, you didn't know because you couldn't see it. Well, excuse me, it hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building. And the last time I checked X ray vision was fictitious, so nobody knew. But did the building shake? Oh, it tipped. Because tall buildings like that are flexible. And if you go to any tall building, in reality, they're made to buffet in wind storms and so on, and in fact, they're made to possibly be struck by an airplane, although no one ever expected that somebody would deliberately take a fully loaded jet aircraft and crash it into a tower, because it wasn't the plane hitting the tower as such that destroyed both of them. It was the exploding jet fuel that destroyed so much more infrastructure caused the buildings to collapse. But in reality, for me, I had done a lot of preparation ahead of time, not even thinking that there would be an emergency, but thinking about I need to really know all I can about the building, because I've got to be the leader of my office, and I should know all of that. I should know what to do in an emergency. I should know how to take people to lunch and where to go and all that. And by learning all of that, as I learned many and discovered many years later, it created a mindset that kicked in when the World Trade Center was struck, and in fact, we didn't know until after both towers had collapsed, and I called my wife. We I talked with her just before we evacuated, and the media hadn't even gotten the story yet, but I never got a chance to talk with her until after both buildings had collapsed, and then I was able to get through and she's the first one that told us how the two buildings had been hit by hijacked aircraft. But the mindset had kicked in that said, You know what to do, do it and that. And again, I didn't really think about that until much later, but that's something that is a lesson we all could learn. We shouldn't rely on just watching signs to know what to do, no to go in an emergency. We should really know it, because the knowledge, rather than just having information, the true intellectual knowledge that we internalize, makes such a big difference. Nick Francis  57:46 Do you think it was the fact that you were blind that made you so much more keen to know the way out that kind of that really helped you to understand that at the time? Michael Hingson  57:56 Well, what I think is being blind and growing up in an environment where so many things could be unexpected, for me, it was important to know so, for example, when I would go somewhere to meet a customer, I would spend time, ahead of time, learning how to get around, learning how to get to where they were and and learning what what the process was, because we didn't have Google Maps and we didn't have all the intellectual and and technological things that we have today. Well intellectual we did with the technology we didn't have. So today it's easier, but still, I want to know what to do. I want to really have the answers, and then I can can more easily and more effectively deal with what I need to deal with and react. So I'm sure that blindness played a part in all of that, because if I hadn't learned how to do the things that I did and know the things that I knew, then it would have been a totally different ball game, and so sure, I'm sure, I'm certain that blindness had something to do with it, but I also know that, that the fact is, what I learned is the same kinds of things that everyone should learn, and we shouldn't rely on just the signs, because what if the building were full of smoke, then what would you do? Right? And I've had examples of that since I was at a safety council meeting once where there was somebody from an electric company in Missouri who said, you know, we've wondered for years, what do we do if there's a fire in the generator room, in the basement, In the generator room, how do people get out? And he and I actually worked on it, and they developed a way where people could have a path that they could follow with their feet to get them out. But the but the reality is that what people first need to learn is eyesight is not the only game in town. Yeah, right. Mean, it's so important to really learn that, but people, people don't, and we take too many things for granted, which is, which is really so unfortunate, because we really should do a li

What happens when your voice is built through visuals, not volume? In this Unstoppable Mindset episode, I talk with photographer and storyteller Mobeen Ansari about growing up with hearing loss, learning speech with support from his family and the John Tracy Center, and using technology to stay connected in real time. We also explore how his art became a bridge across culture and faith, from documenting religious minorities in Pakistan to chronicling everyday heroes, and why he feels urgency to photograph climate change before more communities, heritage sites, and ways of life are lost. You'll hear how purpose grows when you share your story in a way that helps others feel less alone, and why Mobeen believes one story can become a blueprint for someone else to navigate their own challenge. Highlights: 00:03:54 - Learn how early family support can shape confidence, communication, and independence for life. 00:08:31 - Discover how deciding when to capture a moment can define your values as a storyteller. 00:15:14 - Learn practical ways to stay fully present in conversations when hearing is a daily challenge. 00:23:24 - See how unexpected role models can redefine what living fully looks like at any stage of life. 00:39:15 - Understand how visual storytelling can cross cultural and faith boundaries without words. 00:46:38 - Learn why documenting climate change now matters before stories, places, and communities disappear. About the Guest: Mobeen Ansari is a photographer, filmmaker and artist from Islamabad, Pakistan. Having a background in fine arts, he picked up the camera during high school and photographed his surroundings and friends- a path that motivated him to be a pictorial historian. His journey as a photographer and artist is deeply linked to a challenge that he had faced since after his birth.  Three weeks after he was born, Mobeen was diagnosed with hearing loss due to meningitis, and this challenge has inspired him to observe people more visually, which eventually led him to being an artist. He does advocacy for people with hearing loss.  Mobeen's work focuses on his home country of Pakistan and its people, promoting a diverse & poetic image of his country through his photos & films. As a photojournalist he focuses on human interest stories and has extensively worked on topics of climate change, global health and migration. Mobeen has published three photography books. His first one, ‘Dharkan: The Heartbeat of a Nation', features portraits of iconic people of Pakistan from all walks of life. His second book, called ‘White in the Flag' is based on the lives & festivities of religious minorities in Pakistan. Both these books have had two volumes published over the years. His third book is called ‘Miraas' which is also about iconic people of Pakistan and follows ‘Dharkan' as a sequel. Mobeen has also made two silent movies; 'Hellhole' is a black and white short film, based on the life of a sanitation worker, and ‘Lady of the Emerald Scarf' is based on the life of Aziza, a carpet maker in Guilmit in Northern Pakistan. He has exhibited in Pakistan & around the world, namely in UK, Italy, China Iraq, & across the US and UAE. His photographs have been displayed in many famous places as well, including Times Square in New York City. Mobeen is also a recipient of the Swedish Red Cross Journalism prize for his photography on the story of FIFA World Cup football manufacture in Sialkot. Ways to connect with Mobeen**:** www.mobeenansari.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/mobeenart  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mobeenansari/ Instagram: @mobeenansariphoto X: @Mobeen_Ansari About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host. Michael Hingson, we're really glad that you are here, and today we are going to talk to Mobeen Ansari, and Mobeen is in Islamabad. I believe you're still in Islamabad, aren't you? There we go. I am, yeah. And so, so he is 12 hours ahead of where we are. So it is four in the afternoon here, and I can't believe it, but he's up at four in the morning where he is actually I get up around the same time most mornings, but I go to bed earlier than he does. Anyway. We're really glad that he is here. He is a photographer, he speaks he's a journalist in so many ways, and we're going to talk about all of that as we go forward. Mobin also is profoundly hard of hearing. Uses hearing aids. He was diagnosed as being hard of hearing when he was three weeks old. So I'm sure we're going to talk about that a little bit near the beginning, so we'll go ahead and start. So mo bean, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad that you're here. Mobeen Ansari  02:32 It's a pleasure to be here, and I'm honored to plan your show. Thank you so much. Michael Hingson  02:37 Well, thank you very much, and I'm glad that we're able to make this work, and I should explain that he is able to read what is going on the screen. I use a program called otter to transcribe when necessary, whatever I and other people in a meeting, or in this case, in a podcast, are saying, and well being is able to read all of that. So that's one of the ways, and one of the reasons that we get to do this in real time. So it's really kind of cool, and I'm really excited by that. Well, let's go ahead and move forward. Why don't you tell us a little about the early Beau beam growing up? And obviously that starts, that's where your adventure starts in a lot of ways. So why don't you tell us about you growing up and all that. Mobeen Ansari  03:22 So I'm glad you mentioned the captions part, because, you know, that has been really, really revolutionary. That has been quite a lifesaver, be it, you know, Netflix, be it anywhere I go into your life, I read captions like there's an app on my phone that I use for real life competitions, and that's where I, you know, get everything. That's where technology is pretty cool. So I do that because of my hearing does, as you mentioned, when I was three weeks old, I had severe meningitis due to it, had lost hearing in both my ear and so when my hearing loss were diagnosed, it was, you know, around the time we didn't have resources, the technology that we do today. Michael Hingson  04:15 When was that? What year was that about? Mobeen Ansari  04:19 1986 okay, sorry, 1987 so yeah, so they figured that I had locked my hearing at three weeks of age, but didn't properly diagnose it until I think I was three months old. So yeah, then January was my diagnosis, okay. Michael Hingson  04:44 And so how did you how did you function, how did you do things when you were, when you were a young child? Because at that point was kind of well, much before you could use a hearing aid and learn to speak and so on. So what? Mobeen Ansari  05:00 You do. So my parents would have a better memory of that than I would, but I would say that they were, you know, extra hard. They went an extra mile. I mean, I would say, you know, 100 extra mile. My mother learned to be a peace therapist, and my father. He learned to be he learned how to read audiogram, to learn the audiology, familiarize himself with hearing a technology with an engineer support. My parents work around me. David went to a lot of doctors, obviously, I was a very difficult child, but I think that actually laid the foundation in me becoming an artist. Because, you know, today, the hearing is it fits right into my ear so you cannot see it, basically because my hair is longer. But back then, hearing aids used to be almost like on a harness, and you to be full of quiet, so you would actually stick out like a sore thumb. So, you know, obviously you stand out in a crowd. So I would be very conscious, and I would often, you know, get asked what this is. So I would say, this is a radio but for most part of my childhood, I was very introverted, but I absolutely love art. My grandmother's for the painter, and she was also photographer, as well as my grandfather, the hobbyist photographer, and you know, seeing them create all of the visuals in different ways, I was inspired, and I would tell my stories in form of sketching or making modified action figures. And photography was something I picked up way later on in high school, when the first digital camera had just come out, and I finally started in a really interacting with the world. Michael Hingson  07:13 So early on you you drew because you didn't really use the camera yet. And I think it's very interesting how much your parents worked to make sure they could really help you. As you said, Your mother was a speech you became a speech therapist, and your father learned about the technologies and so on. So when did you start using hearing aids? That's Mobeen Ansari  07:42 a good question. I think I probably started using it when I was two years old. Okay, yeah, yeah, that's gonna start using it, but then, you know, I think I'll probably have to ask my parents capacity, but a moment, Mobeen Ansari  08:08 you know, go ahead, I think they worked around me. They really improvised on the situation. They learned at the went along, and I think I learned speech gradually. Did a lot of, you know, technical know, how about this? But I would also have to credit John Troy clinic in Los Angeles, because, you know, back then, there was no mobile phone, there were no emails, but my mother would put in touch with John Troy center in LA and they would send a lot of material back and forth for many years, and they would provide a guidance. They would provide her a lot of articles, a lot of details on how to help me learn speech. A lot of visuals were involved. And because of the emphasis on visuals, I think that kind of pushed me further to become an artist, because I would speak more, but with just so to Michael Hingson  09:25 say so, it was sort of a natural progression for you, at least it seemed that way to you, to start using art as a way to communicate, as opposed as opposed to talking. Mobeen Ansari  09:39 Yeah, absolutely, you know, so I would like pass forward a little bit to my high school. You know, I was always a very shy child up until, you know, my early teens, and the first camera had just come out, this was like 2001 2002 at. It. That's when my dad got one, and I would take that to school today. You know, everyone has a smartphone back then, if you had a camera, you're pretty cool. And that is what. I started taking pictures of my friends. I started taking pictures of my teachers, of landscapes around me. And I would even capture, you know, funniest of things, like my friend getting late for school, and one day, a friend of mine got into a fight because somebody stole his girlfriend, or something like that happened, you know, that was a long time ago, and he lost the fight, and he turned off into the world court to cry, and he was just sort of, you're trying to hide all his vulnerability. I happened to be in the same place as him, and I had my camera, and I was like, should I capture this moment, or should I let this permit go? And well, I decided to capture it, and that is when human emotion truly started to fascinate me. So I was born in a very old city. I live in the capital of Islamabad right now, but I was born in the city of travel to be and that is home to lots of old, you know, heritage sites, lots of old places, lots of old, interesting scenes. And you know, that always inspired you, that always makes you feel alive. And I guess all of these things came together. And, you know, I really got into the art of picture storytelling. And by the end of my high school graduation, everybody was given an award. The certificate that I was given was, it was called pictorial historian, and that is what inspired me to really document everything. Document my country. Document is people, document landscape. In fact, that award it actually has in my studio right now been there for, you know, over 21 years, but it inspired me luck to this day. Michael Hingson  12:20 So going back to the story you just told, did you tell your friend that you took pictures of him when he was crying? Mobeen Ansari  12:32 Eventually, yes, I would not talk. You're familiar with the content back then, but the Catholic friend, I know so I mean, you know everyone, you're all kids, so yeah, very, yeah, that was a very normal circumstance. But yeah, you know, Michael Hingson  12:52 how did he react when you told him, Mobeen Ansari  12:56 Oh, he was fine. It's pretty cool about it, okay, but I should probably touch base with him. I haven't spoken to him for many years that Yeah, Michael Hingson  13:08 well, but as long as Yeah, but obviously you were, you were good friends, and you were able to continue that. So that's, that's pretty cool. So you, your hearing aids were also probably pretty large and pretty clunky as well, weren't they? Mobeen Ansari  13:26 Yeah, they were. But you know, with time my hearing aid became smaller. Oh sure. So hearing aid model that I'm wearing right now that kind of started coming in place from 1995 1995 96 onwards. But you know, like, even today, it's called like BDE behind the ear, hearing it even today, I still wear the large format because my hearing loss is more it's on the profound side, right? Just like if I take my hearing, it off. I cannot hear but that's a great thing, because if I don't want to listen to anybody, right, and I can sleep peacefully at night. Michael Hingson  14:21 Have you ever used bone conduction headphones or earphones? Mobeen Ansari  14:30 But I have actually used something I forgot what is called, but these are very specific kind of ear bone that get plugged into your hearing it. So once you plug into that, you cannot hear anything else. But it discontinued that. So now they use Bluetooth. Michael Hingson  14:49 Well, bone conduction headphones are, are, are devices that, rather than projecting the audio into your ear, they actually. Be projected straight into the bone and bypassing most of the ear. And I know a number of people have found them to be useful, like, if you want to listen to music and so on, or listen to audio, you can connect them. There are Bluetooth versions, and then there are cable versions, but the sound doesn't go into your ear. It goes into the bone, which is why they call it bone conduction. Mobeen Ansari  15:26 Okay, that's interesting, I think. Michael Hingson  15:29 And some of them do work with hearing aids as well. Mobeen Ansari  15:34 Okay, yeah, I think I've experienced that when they do the audio can test they put, like at the back of your head or something? Michael Hingson  15:43 Yeah, the the most common one, at least in the United States, and I suspect most places, is made by a company called aftershocks. I think it's spelled A, F, T, E, R, S, H, O, k, s, but something to think about. Anyway. So you went through high school mostly were, were your student colleagues and friends, and maybe not always friends? Were they pretty tolerant of the fact that you were a little bit different than they were. Did you ever have major problems with people? Mobeen Ansari  16:22 You know, I've actually had a great support system, and for most part, I actually had a lot of amazing friends from college who are still my, you know, friend to the dead, sorry, from school. I'm actually closer to my friend from school than I am two friends of college difficulties. You know, if you're different, you'll always be prone to people who sort of are not sure how to navigate that, or just want, you know, sort of test things out. So to say, so it wasn't without his problems, but for most part of it's surprisingly, surprisingly, I've had a great support system, but, you know, the biggest challenge was actually not being able to understand conversation. So I'm going to go a bit back and forth on the timeline here. You know, if so, in 2021, I had something known as menus disease. Menier disease is something, it's an irregular infection that arises from stress, and what happens is that you're hearing it drops and it is replaced by drinking and bathing and all sorts of real according to my experience, it affects those with hearing loss much more than it affects those with regular, normal hearing. It's almost like tinnitus on steroids. That is how I would type it. And I've had about three occurrences of that, either going to stress or being around loud situations and noises, and that is where it became so challenging that it became difficult to hear, even with hearing it or lip reading. So that is why I use a transcriber app wherever I go, and that been a lifesaver, you know. So I believe that every time I have evolved to life, every time I have grown up, I've been able to better understand people to like at the last, you know, four years I've been using this application to now, I think I'm catching up on all the nuances of conversation that I've missed. Right if I would talk to you five years ago, I would probably understand 40% of what you're saying. I would understand it by reading your lips or your body language or ask you to write or take something for me, but now with this app, I'm able to actually get to 99% of the conversation. So I think with time, people have actually become more tired and more accepting, and now there is more awareness. I think, awareness, right? Michael Hingson  19:24 Well, yeah, I was gonna say it's been an only like the last four years or so, that a lot of this has become very doable in real time, and I think also AI has helped the process. But do you find that the apps and the other technologies, like what we use here, do you find that occasionally it does make mistakes, or do you not even see that very much at all? Mobeen Ansari  19:55 You know it does make mistakes, and the biggest problem is when there is no data, when there is no. Wide network, or if it runs out of battery, you know, because now I kind of almost 24/7 so my battery just integrate that very fast. And also because, you know, if I travel in remote regions of Pakistan, because I'm a photographer, my job to travel to all of these places, all of these hidden corners. So I need to have conversation, especially in those places. And if that ad didn't work there, then we have a problem. Yeah, that is when it's problem. Sometimes, depending on accidents, it doesn't pick up everything. So, you know, sometimes that happens, but I think technology is improving. Michael Hingson  20:50 Let me ask the question. Let me ask the question this way. Certainly we're speaking essentially from two different parts of the world. When you hear, when you hear or see me speak, because you're you're able to read the transcriptions. I'm assuming it's pretty accurate. What is it like when you're speaking? Does the system that we're using here understand you well as in addition to understanding me? Mobeen Ansari  21:18 Well, yes, I think it does so like, you know, I just occasionally look down to see if it's catching up on everything. Yeah, on that note, I ought to try and improve my speech over time. I used to speak very fast. I used to mumble a lot, and so now I become more mindful of it, hopefully during covid. You know, during covid, a lot of podcasts started coming out, and I had my own actually, so I would, like brought myself back. I would look at this recording, and I would see what kind of mistakes I'm making. So I'm not sure if transcription pick up everything I'm saying, but I do try and improve myself, just like the next chapter of my life where I'm trying to improve my speech, my enunciation Michael Hingson  22:16 Well, and that's why I was was asking, it must be a great help to you to be able to look at your speaking through the eyes of the Translate. Well, not translation, but through the eyes of the speech program, so you're able to see what it's doing. And as you said, you can use it to practice. You can use it to improve your speech. Probably it is true that slowing down speech helps the system understand it better as well. Yeah, yeah. So that makes sense. Well, when you were growing up, your parents clearly were very supportive. Did they really encourage you to do whatever you wanted to do? Do they have any preconceived notions of what kind of work you should do when you grew up? Or do they really leave it to you and and say we're going to support you with whatever you do? Mobeen Ansari  23:21 Oh, they were supportive. And whatever I wanted to do, they were very supportive in what my brother had gone to do I had to enter brothers. So they were engineers. And you know what my my parents were always, always, you know, very encouraging of whatever period we wanted to follow. So I get the a lot of credit goes to my my parents, also, because they even put their very distinct fields. They actually had a great understanding of arts and photography, especially my dad, and that really helped me have conversations. You know, when I was younger to have a better understanding of art. You know, because my grandmother used to paint a lot, and because she did photography. When she migrated from India to Pakistan in 1947 she took, like, really, really powerful pictures. And I think that instilled a lot of this in me as well. I've had a great support that way. Michael Hingson  24:26 Yeah, so your grandmother helps as well. Mobeen Ansari  24:32 Oh yeah, oh yeah. She did very, very ahead of her time. She's very cool, and she made really large scale painting. So she was an example of always making the best of life, no matter where you are, no matter how old you are. She actually practiced a Kibana in the 80s. So that was pretty cool. So, you know. Yeah, she played a major part in my life. Michael Hingson  25:05 When did you start learning English? Because that I won't say it was a harder challenge for you. Was a different challenge, but clearly, I assume you learned originally Pakistani and so on. But how did you go about learning English? Mobeen Ansari  25:23 Oh, so I learned about the languages when I started speech. So I mean to be split the languages of Urdu. You are, be you. So I started learning about my mother tongue and English at the same time. You know, basically both languages at work to both ran in parallel, but other today, I have to speak a bit of Italian and a few other regional languages of Pakistan so and in my school. I don't know why, but we had French as a subject, but now I've completely forgotten French at Yeah, this kind of, it kind of helped a lot. It's pretty cool, very interesting. But yeah, I mean, I love to speak English. Just when I learned speech, what Michael Hingson  26:19 did you major in when you went to college? Mobeen Ansari  26:24 So I majored in painting. I went to National College of Arts, and I did my bachelor's in fine arts, and I did my majors in painting, and I did my minor in printmaking and sculpture. So my background was always rooted in fine arts. Photography was something that ran in parallel until I decided that photography was the ultimate medium that I absolutely love doing that became kind of the voice of my heart or a medium of oppression and tougher and bone today for Michael Hingson  27:11 did they even have a major in photography when you went to college? Mobeen Ansari  27:17 No, photography was something that I learned, you know, as a hobby, because I learned that during school, and I was self taught. One of my uncles is a globally renowned photographer. So he also taught me, you know, the art of lighting. He also taught me on how to interact with people, on how to set up appointments. He taught me so many things. So you could say that being a painter helped me become a better photographer. Being a photographer helped me become a better painter. So both went hand in hand report co existed. Yeah, so photography is something that I don't exactly have a degree in, but something that I learned because I'm more of an art photographer. I'm more of an artist than I am a photographer, Michael Hingson  28:17 okay, but you're using photography as kind of the main vehicle to display or project your art, absolutely. Mobeen Ansari  28:30 So what I try to do is I still try to incorporate painting into my photography, meaning I try to use the kind of lighting that you see in painting all of these subtle colors that Rembrandt of Caravaggio use, so I tried to sort of incorporate that. And anytime I press my photograph, I don't print it on paper, I print it on canvas. There's a paint really element to it, so so that my photo don't come up as a challenge, or just photos bottles or commercial in nature, but that they look like painting. And I think I have probably achieved that to a degree, because a lot of people asked me, Do you know, like, Okay, how much I did painting for and create painting. So I think you know, whatever my objective was, I think I'm probably just, you know, I'm getting there. Probably that's what my aim is. So you have a photography my main objective with the main voice that I use, and it has helped me tell stories of my homeland. It has helped me to tell stories of my life. It has helped me tell stories of people around Michael Hingson  29:49 me, but you're but what you do is as I understand you, you're, you may take pictures. You may capture the images. With a camera, but then you put them on canvas. Mobeen Ansari  30:05 Yeah, I just every time I have an exhibition or a display pictures which are present in my room right now, I always print them on Canvas, because when you print them on Canvas, the colors become more richer, right, Michael Hingson  30:22 more mentally. But what? But what you're doing, but what you're putting on Canvas are the pictures that you've taken with your camera. Mobeen Ansari  30:31 Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. But occasionally, occasionally, I tried to do something like I would print my photos on Canvas, and then I would try to paint on them. It's something that I've been experimenting with, but I'm not directly quite there yet. Conceptually, let's see in the future when these two things make properly. But now photographs? Michael Hingson  31:02 Yeah, it's a big challenge. I i can imagine that it would be a challenge to try to be able to print them on cameras and then canvas, and then do some painting, because it is two different media, but in a sense, but it will be interesting to see if you're able to be successful with that in the future. What would you say? It's easier today, though, to to print your pictures on Canvas, because you're able to do it from digital photographs, as opposed to what you must have needed to do, oh, 20 years ago and so on, where you had film and you had negatives and so on, and printing them like you do today was a whole different thing to do. Mobeen Ansari  31:50 Oh yeah, it's same to think good yesterday, somebody asked me if I do photography on an analog camera, and I have a lot of them, like lots and lots of them, I still have a lot of black and white film, but the problem is, nobody could develop them. I don't have that room. So otherwise I would do that very often. Otherwise I have a few functional cameras that tend to it. I'm consciously just thinking of reviving that. Let's see what happens to it. So I think it's become very difficult. You know also, because Pakistan has a small community of photographers, so the last person who everybody would go to for developing the film or making sure that the analog cameras became functional. He unfortunately passed away a few years ago, so I'm sort of trying to find somebody who can help me do this. It's a very fascinating process, but I haven't done any analog film camera photography for the last 15 years now, definitely a different ball game with, you know, typical cameras, yeah, the pattern, you could just take 36 pictures, and today you can just, you know, take 300 and do all sorts of trial and error. But I tried, you know, I think I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to photography, so I kind of try and make sure that I get the shots at the very first photograph, you know, because that's how my dad trained me on analog cameras, because back then, you couldn't see how the pictures are going to turn out until you printed them. So every time my dad took a picture, he would spend maybe two or three minutes on the setting, and he would really make the person in front of him wait a long time. And then you need to work on shutter speed or the aperture or the ISO, and once you would take that picture is perfect, no need to anything to it, Michael Hingson  34:09 but, but transposing it, but, but transferring it to from an analog picture back then to Canvas must have been a lot more of a challenge than it is today. Mobeen Ansari  34:24 No back then, working canvas printing. Canvas printing was something that I guess I just started discovering from 2014 onwards. So it would like during that this is laid up, Michael Hingson  34:38 but you were still able to do it because you just substituted Canvas for the the typical photographic paper that you normally would use is what I hear you say, Mobeen Ansari  34:50 Oh yeah, Canvas printing was something that I figured out much later on, right? Michael Hingson  34:59 Um. But you were still able to do it with some analog pictures until digital cameras really came into existence. Or did you always use it with a digital camera? Mobeen Ansari  35:11 So I basically, when I started off, I started with the handle camera. And obviously, you know, back in the 90s, if somebody asked you to take a picture, or we have to take a picture of something, you just had the analog camera at hand. Yeah. And my grandparents, my dad, they all had, you know, analog cameras. Some of it, I still have it Michael Hingson  35:36 with me, but were you able to do canvas painting from the analog cameras? No, yeah, that's what I was wondering. Mobeen Ansari  35:43 No, I haven't tried, yeah, but I think must have been possible, but I've only tried Canvas printing in the digital real. Michael Hingson  35:53 Do you are you finding other people do the same thing? Are there? Are there a number of people that do canvas painting? Mobeen Ansari  36:02 I lot of them do. I think it's not very common because it's very expensive to print it on canvas. Yeah, because you know, once you once you test again, but you don't know how it's going to turn out. A lot of images, they turn out very rough. The pictures trade, and if can, with print, expose to the camera, sometimes, sorry, the canvas print exposed to the sun, then there's the risk of a lot of fading that can happen. So there's a lot of risk involved. Obviously, printing is a lot better now. It can withstand exposure to heat and sun, but Canvas printing is not as common as you know, matte paper printing, non reflective, matte paper. Some photographers do. It depends on what kind of images you want to get out? Yeah, what's your budget is, and what kind of field you're hoping to get out of it. My aim is very specific, because I aim to make it very Painterly. That's my objective with the canvas. Michael Hingson  37:17 Yeah, you want them to look like paintings? Mobeen Ansari  37:21 Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, Michael Hingson  37:23 which, which? I understand it's, it is a fascinating thing. I hadn't really heard of the whole idea of canvas painting with photograph or photography before, but it sounds really fascinating to to have that Yeah, and it makes you a unique kind of person when you do that, but if it works, and you're able to make it work, that's really a pretty cool thing to do. So you have you you've done both painting and photography and well, and sculpting as well. What made you really decide, what was the turning point that made you decide to to go to photography is kind of your main way of capturing images. Mobeen Ansari  38:12 So it was with high school, because I was still studying, you know, art as a subject back then, but I was still consistently doing that. And then, like earlier, I mentioned to you that my school gave me an award called pictorial historian. That is what inspired me to follow this girl. That is what set me on this path. That is what made me find this whole purpose of capturing history. You know, Pakistan is home to a lot of rich cultures, rich landscapes, incredible heritage sites. And I think that's when I became fascinated. Because, you know, so many Pakistanis have these incredible stories of resilience entrepreneurship, and they have incredible faces, and, you know, so I guess that what made me want to capture it really. So I think, yeah, it was in high school, and then eventually in college, because, you know, port and school and college, I would be asked to take pictures of events. I'll be asked to take pictures of things around me. Where I went to college, it was surrounded by all kinds of, you know, old temples and churches and old houses and very old streets. So that, really, you know, always kept me inspired. So I get over time. I think it's just always been there in my heart. I decided to really, really go for it during college. Well. Michael Hingson  40:00 But you've, you've done pretty well with it. Needless to say, which is, which is really exciting and which is certainly very rewarding. Have you? Have you done any pictures that have really been famous, that that people regard as exceptionally well done? Mobeen Ansari  40:22 I Yes, obviously, that's it for the audience to decide. But right, I understand, yeah, I mean, but judging from my path exhibitions, and judging from system media, there have been quite a few, including the monitor out of just last week, I went to this abandoned railway station, which was on a British colonial time, abandoned now, but that became a very, very successful photograph. I was pretty surprised to see the feedback. But yes, in my career, they have been about, maybe about 10 to 15 picture that really, really stood out or transcended barriers. Because coming out is about transcending barriers. Art is about transcending barriers, whether it is cultural or political, anything right if a person entered a part of the world views a portrait that I've taken in Pakistan, and define the connection with the subject. My mission is accomplished, because that's what I would love to do through art, to connect the world through art, through art and in the absence of verbal communication. I would like for this to be a visual communication to show where I'm coming from, or the very interesting people that I beat. And that is that sort of what I do. So I guess you know, there have been some portraits. I've taken some landscapes or some heritage sites, and including the subjects that I have photography of my book that acting have probably stood out in mind of people. Michael Hingson  42:14 So you have published three books so far, right? Yes, but tell me about your books, if you would. Mobeen Ansari  42:24 So my first book is called Harkin. I will just hold it up for the camera. It is my first book, and what is it called? It is called turken, and the book is about iconic people of Pakistan who have impacted this history, be it philanthropist, be it sports people, be it people in music or in performing arts, or be it Even people who are sanitation workers or electricians to it's about people who who have impacted the country, whether they are famous or not, but who I consider to be icons. Some of them are really, really, really famous, very well known people around the world, you know, obviously based in Pakistan. So my book is about chronicling them. It's about documenting them. It's about celebrating them. My second book without, okay, most Michael Hingson  43:29 people are going to listen to the podcast anyway, but go ahead. Yeah. Mobeen Ansari  43:35 So basically it's writing the flag is about the religious minorities of Pakistan, because, you know, Pakistan is largely a Muslim country. But when people around the world, they look at Pakistan, they don't realize that it's a multicultural society. There's so many religions. Pakistan is home to a lot of ancient civilizations, a lot of religions that are there. And so this book document life and festivities of religious minorities of Pakistan. You know, like I in my childhood, have actually attended Easter mass, Christmas and all of these festivities, because my father's best friend was a Christian. So we had that exposure to, you know, different faiths, how people practice them. So I wanted to document that. That's my second book. Michael Hingson  44:39 It's wonderful that you had, it's wonderful that you had parents that were willing to not only experience but share experiences with you about different cultures, different people, so that it gave you a broader view of society, which is really cool. Mobeen Ansari  44:58 Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. So your third book? So my third book is a sequel to my first one, same topic, people who have impacted the country. And you know, with the Pakistan has a huge, huge population, it had no shortage of heroes and heroines and people who have created history in the country. So my first book has 98 people, obviously, which is not enough to feature everybody. So my second book, it features 115 people. So it features people who are not in the first book. Michael Hingson  45:41 Your third book? Yeah, okay, yeah. Well, there's, you know, I appreciate that there's a very rich culture, and I'm really glad that you're, you're making Chronicles or or records of all of that. Is there a fourth book coming? Have you started working on a fourth book yet? Mobeen Ansari  46:05 You know in fact, yes, there is. Whenever people hear about my book, they assume that there's going to be landscape or portraits or street photography or something that is more anthropological in nature. That's the photography I truly enjoy doing. These are the photographs that are displayed in my studio right now. So, but I would never really study for it, because Pakistan had, you know, we have poor provinces. And when I started these books, I hadn't really documented everything. You know, I come from the urban city, and, you know, I just, just only take taking pictures in main cities at that time. But now I have taken pictures everywhere. I've been literally to every nook and cranny in the country. So now I have a better understanding, a better visual representation. So a fourth book, it may be down the line, maybe five years, 10 years, I don't know yet. Michael Hingson  47:13 Well, one thing that I know you're interested in, that you've, you've at least thought about, is the whole idea behind climate change and the environment. And I know you've done some work to travel and document climate change and the environment and so on. Tell us, tell us more about that and where that might be going. Mobeen Ansari  47:36 So on tape, note, Michael, you know there's a lot of flooding going on in Pakistan. You know, in just one day, almost 314 people died, but many others you had missing. You had some of the worst flooding test time round. And to be reeling from that, and we had some major flooding some teachers back in. Well, climate change is no longer a wake up call. We had to take action years ago, if not, you know, yesterday and till right now, we are seeing effects of it. And you know, Pakistan has a lot of high mountain peaks. It has, it is home to the second highest mountain in the world, Ketu, and it has a lot of glaciers. You know, people talk about melting polar ice caps. People talk about effects of climate change around the world, but I think it had to be seen everywhere. So in Pakistan, especially, climate change is really, really rearing space. So I have traveled to the north to capture melting glacier, to capture stories of how it affects different communities, the water supply and the agriculture. So that is what I'm trying to do. And if I take pictures of a desert down south where a sand dune is spreading over agricultural land that it wasn't doing up until seven months ago. So you know climate change is it's everywhere. Right now, we are experiencing rains every day. It's been the longest monsoon. So it has also affected the way of life. It has also affected ancient heritage sites. Some of these heritage sites, which are over 3000 years old, and they have bestowed, you know, so much, but they are not able to withstand what we are facing right now. Um, and unfortunately, you know, with unregulated construction, with carbon emissions here and around the world, where deforestation, I felt that there was a strong need to document these places, to bring awareness of what is happening to bring awareness to what we would lose if we don't look after mother nature, that the work I have been doing on climate change, as well as topics of global health and migration, so those two topics are also very close To My Heart. Michael Hingson  50:40 Have you done any traveling outside Pakistan? Mobeen Ansari  50:45 Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been traveling abroad since I was very little. I have exhibited in Italy, in the United States. I was just in the US debris. My brother lives in Dallas, so, yeah, I keep traveling because, because my workshop, because of my book events, or my exhibition, usually here and around the world. Michael Hingson  51:14 Have you done any photography work here in the United States? Mobeen Ansari  51:19 Yeah, I have, I mean, in the US, I just don't directly do photography, but I do workshop, because whatever tool that I captured from Pakistan, I do it there. Okay, funny thing is, a funny thing is that, you know, when you take so many pictures in Pakistan, you become so used to rustic beauty and a very specific kind of beauty that you have a hard time capturing what's outside. But I've always, always just enjoyed taking pictures in in Mexico and Netherlands, in Italy, in India, because they that rustic beauty. But for the first time, you know, I actually spent some time on photography. This year, I went to Chicago, and I was able to take pictures of Chicago landscape, Chicago cityscape, completely. You know, Snowden, that was a pretty cool kind of palette to work with. Got to take some night pictures with everything Snowden, traveling Chicago, downtown. So yeah, sometimes I do photography in the US, but I'm mostly there to do workshops or exhibitions or meet my brothers. Michael Hingson  52:34 What is your your work process? In other words, how do you decide what ideas for you are worthwhile pursuing and and recording and chronicling. Mobeen Ansari  52:46 So I think it depends on where their story, where there is a lot of uniqueness, that is what stands out to me, and obviously beauty there. But they have to be there. They have to be some uniqueness, you know, like, if you look at one of the pictures behind me, this is a person who used to run a library that had been there since 1933 his father, he had this really, really cool library. And you know, to that guy would always maintain it, that library would have, you know, three old books, you know, a philosophy of religion, of theology, and there was even a handwritten, 600 years old copy of the Quran with his religious book for Muslims. So, you know, I found these stories very interesting. So I found it interesting because he was so passionate about literature, and his library was pretty cool. So that's something that you don't get to see. So I love seeing where there is a soul, where there is a connection. I love taking pictures of indigenous communities, and obviously, you know, landscapes as well. Okay? Also, you know, when it comes to climate change, when it comes to migration, when it comes to global health, that's what I take picture to raise awareness. Michael Hingson  54:33 Yeah, and your job is to raise awareness. Mobeen Ansari  54:41 So that's what I try to do, if I'm well informed about it, or if I feel that is something that needed a light to be shown on it, that's what I do. Took my photograph, and also, you know. Whatever had this appeal, whatever has a beauty, whatever has a story that's in spur of the moment. Sometimes it determined beforehand, like this year, particularly, it particularly helped me understand how to pick my subject. Even though I've been doing this for 22 years, this year, I did not do as much photography as I normally do, and I'm very, very picky about it. Like last week I went to this abandoned railway station. I decided to capture it because it's very fascinating. It's no longer used, but the local residents of that area, they still use it. And if you look at it, it kind of almost looks like it's almost science fiction film. So, you know, I'm a big star. Was that Big Star Trek fan? So, yes, I'm in port the camps. So I also like something that had these elements of fantasy to it. So my work, it can be all over the place, sometimes, Michael Hingson  56:09 well, as a as a speaker, it's, it's clearly very important to you to share your own personal journey and your own experiences. Why is that? Why do you want to share what you do with others? Mobeen Ansari  56:28 So earlier, I mentioned to you that John Tracy center played a major, major role in my life. He helped my mother. They provided all the materials. You know, in late 80s, early 90s, and so I will tell you what happened. So my aunt, my mom's sister, she used to live in the US, and when my hearing loss were diagnosed, my mother jumped right into action. I mean, both my parents did. So my mother, she landed in New York, and to my aunt would live in New Jersey. So every day she would go to New York, and she landed in New York League of hard of hearing. And a lady over there asked my mom, do you want your child to speak, or do you want him to learn? Frank Lacher and my mother, without any hesitation, she said, I want my child to speak and to see what put in touch with John Troy center and rest with history, and they provided with everything that needed. So I am affiliated with the center as an alumni. And whenever I'm with the US, whenever I'm in LA, I visit the center to see how I can support parents of those with hearing loss, and I remember when I went in 2016 2018 I gave a little talk to the parents of those with hair in glass. And I got to two other place as well, where I spent my childhood joint. Every time I went there, I saw the same fears. I saw the same determination in parents of those with hearing loss, as I saw in my parents eyes. And by the end of my talk, they came up to me, and they would tell me, you know, that sharing my experiences helped them. It motivated them. It helped them not be discouraged, because having a child hearing loss is not easy. And you know, like there was this lady from Ecuador, and you know, she spoke in Spanish, and she see other translators, you know, tell me this, so to be able to reach out with those stories, to be able to provide encouragement and any little guidance, or whatever little knowledge I have from my experience, it gave me this purpose. And a lot of people, I think, you know, you feel less lonely in this you feel hurt, you feel seen. And when you share experiences, then you have sort of a blueprint how you want to navigate in one small thing can help the other person. That's fantastic. That's why I share my personal experiences, not just to help those with hearing loss, but with any challenge. Because you know when you. Have a challenge when you have, you know, when a person is differently able, so it's a whole community in itself. You know, we lift each other up, and if one story can help do that, because, you know, like for me, my parents told me, never let your hearing loss be seen as a disability. Never let it be seen as a weakness, but let it be seen as a challenge that makes you stronger and that will aspire to do be it when I get it lost all of my life, be it when I had the latest or many years, or anything. So I want to be able to become stronger from to share my experiences with it. And that is why I feel it's important to share the story. Michael Hingson  1:00:56 And I think that's absolutely appropriate, and that's absolutely right. Do you have a family of your own? Are you married? Do you have any children or anything? Not yet. Not yet. You're still working on that, huh? Mobeen Ansari  1:01:10 Well, so to say, Yeah, I've just been married to my work for way too long. Michael Hingson  1:01:16 Oh, there you are. There's nothing wrong with that. You've got something that you Mobeen Ansari  1:01:22 kind of get batting after a while, yeah. Michael Hingson  1:01:26 Well, if the time, if the right person comes along, then it, then that will happen. But meanwhile, you're, you're doing a lot of good work, and I really appreciate it. And I hope everyone who listens and watches this podcast appreciates it as well. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Mobeen Ansari  1:01:45 They can send me an email, which is out there for everybody on my website. I'm on all my social media as well. My email is being.ansarima.com Michael Hingson  1:01:57 so can you spell that? Can you Yeah, M, o b e n, dot a do it once more, M O B, E N, Mobeen Ansari  1:02:07 M O B, double, e n, dot, a n, S, A R, i@gmail.com Michael Hingson  1:02:17 at gmail.com, okay, and your website is.com Mobeen Ansari  1:02:26 same as my name. Michael Hingson  1:02:27 So, okay, so it's mo bean.ansari@our.www.mo Michael Hingson  1:02:35 bean dot Ansari, or just mo Bean on, sorry, Mobeen Ansari  1:02:41 just moving on, sorry. We com, no.no. Michael Hingson  1:02:44 Dot between mobien and Ansari, okay, so it's www, dot mobile being on sorry, yeah, so it's www, dot, M, O, B, E, N, A, N, S, A, R, i.com Yes. Well, great. I have absolutely enjoyed you being with us today. I really appreciate your time and your insights, and I value a lot what you do. I think you represent so many things so well. So thank you for being here with us, and I want to thank all of you who are out there listening and watching the podcast today, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please email me at Michael H, i@accessibe.com that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and we appreciate it if you would give us a five star rating wherever you are observing the podcast. Please do that. We value that a great deal. And if you know anyone else who ought to be a guest, please let me know. We're always looking for people and mobeen you as well. If you know anyone else who you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, I would appreciate it if you would introduce us. But for now, I just want to thank you one more time for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you for being on the podcast with us today. Mobeen Ansari  1:04:08 Thank you so much. It's been wonderful, and thank you for giving me the platform to share my stories. And I hope that it helps whoever watching this. Up to date. Michael Hingson  1:04:26 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. 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Global IT spending is projected to reach its highest level in 30 years, driven primarily by investments in artificial intelligence (AI) and cloud services. According to a report from the International Data Corporation, spending on hardware, software, and IT services is expected to rise by 14%, marking the fastest growth rate since 1996. However, the benefits of this spending surge are not being realized by Managed Service Providers (MSPs), as hyperscalers dominate the market by building extensive AI infrastructure and integrated platforms. This shift in control raises questions about the future value proposition for MSPs, who may find themselves increasingly marginalized.Small businesses are experiencing hiring challenges despite a reported increase in job growth plans. The National Federation of Independent Business Jobs report indicates that 33% of small business owners have unfilled job openings, with 19% planning to create new jobs in the next three months. However, 56% of these businesses attempted to hire in November, with half citing a lack of suitable candidates. Compounding this issue, federal statistical agencies are facing significant staffing and budget cuts, leading to a decline in the availability of reliable economic data. This erosion of data could hinder small businesses' ability to make informed hiring and investment decisions.In a notable leadership change, Jim Siders has been appointed CEO of Shield Technology Partners, an IT services platform focused on integrating AI with operational expertise. Siders aims to enhance service delivery through AI innovations, positioning Shield as a vital resource for businesses in sectors like construction and healthcare. This move reflects a broader trend of IT services being restructured as AI-driven platforms rather than traditional roll-ups, emphasizing the importance of operational discipline and clean data in leveraging AI effectively.The episode highlights a concerning trend in corporate spending on AI, where companies allocate 93% of their budgets to technology and only 7% to the people who will utilize it. This imbalance can lead to a decline in trust among employees and an increase in the use of unapproved AI tools, complicating compliance and operational efficiency. For MSPs and IT service leaders, the key takeaway is the necessity to shift focus from merely adopting technology to fostering a disciplined approach to AI integration, emphasizing governance, workflow redesign, and clear decision-making boundaries to ensure that clients can navigate the complexities of AI effectively. Four things to know today00:00 Global IT Spending Hits 30-Year High as AI and Cloud Investments Accelerate, IDC Reports05:24 Small Businesses Plan More Hiring but Still Can't Find Qualified Workers, NFIB Reports08:33 Shield Names Former Palantir CIO Jim Siders CEO as It Builds an AI-First IT Services Platform With OpenAI and Thrive11:19 Deloitte: Lopsided AI Spending, Declining Trust, and Shadow AI Signal a Growing Management Failure This is the Business of Tech.     Supported by:  https://saasalerts.com/mspradio/

What if success was less about status and more about gratitude, service, and love? In this Unstoppable Mindset conversation, I talk with strategist and social media influencer Cynthia Washington about climbing and then stepping away from the corporate ladder, choosing a “socio economic experiment” that stripped life back to the basics, and discovering what really matters. You'll hear how growing up in Pasadena, studying at Cal Poly Pomona and Columbia Business School, and working with brands like Enterprise and Zions Bank all led Cynthia to a life centered on emotional intelligence, mentoring young women in tech, and leading with heart. I believe you'll come away seeing gratitude, leadership, and your own potential to be unstoppable in a very different light. Highlights: 00:09 – Explore how early life experiences influence the values that guide personal and professional growth.02:59 – Learn how changing direction can uncover the strengths that shape long-term leadership.05:29 – See how pivotal transitions help define a clearer sense of purpose.10:07 – Discover what stepping away from convention reveals about identity and success.20:05 – Reflect on how redefining success can shift your entire approach to work and life.22:13 – Learn how a grounded mindset practice strengthens resilience and clarity.34:25 – Explore how personal evolution can grow into a mission to empower the next generation.59:11 – Gain a new perspective on how we perceive ability, inclusion, and human potential. About the Guest: Cynthia Washington: Bridging Societal Gaps Through Leadership, Influence, and Love Cynthia Washington is an accomplished business professional, an award-winning leader, and international influencer whose life and career embodies resilience, vision, and compassion.  While studying at Columbia University, she embarked on a socio-economic experiment, which became her reality, highlighting her journey across her social media platforms in hope of sharing her deep commitment to bridge societal gaps and create a better world—one love style, one courageous step at a time.  A proud Park City local of more than twenty years, Cynthia's story begins in Southern California, where she grew up between the San Gabriel Mountains and the beaches of Malibu.  Her cousins called her “Malibu Barbie,” and her stepbrother called her “Love.”  Rooted in her values and guided by her heart, Cynthia's story is not only one of success but of transformation—a legacy driven by her belief that we deserve better. Cynthia leads with integrity and authenticity. She continues to expand her global network of leadership, uniting hearts and minds to inspire lasting, positive change on the right side of history with a framework of faith, family and fun that is built on a foundation of love, kindness, compassion and a hope for peace. One Love, Bob Marley style. Professionally, Cynthia Washington stands at the intersection of strategy, leadership, and emotional intelligence. An agile and results-driven leader, she has distinguished herself through her ability to combine quantitative intuition with deep empathy—qualities that make her both a visionary and a unifier. Known for her collaborative leadership style, she excels in developing teams, leading organizational change, and driving sales performance across diverse industries. Her strategic mindset and exceptional communication skills have made her a trusted partner to executives and innovators alike. Cynthia's work fosters meaningful engagement between employees and senior leaders, helping organizations align vision with values. Through her global portfolio of projects, she has sharpened her expertise in marketing, leadership development, and brand transformation, helping companies from Park City to Silicon Slopes and across international markets thrive. Her career is a testament to excellence, purpose, and adaptability—qualities that have earned her numerous accolades and the respect of peers worldwide. Among her many achievements, Cynthia was honored as a SheTech Champion Impact Award Recipient at the Women Tech Awards, celebrating her leadership, mentorship, and dedication to empowering young women in technology. For more than five years, she has stood alongside thousands of high school students—mentoring, volunteering, and serving as a role model for the next generation of innovators. Motivated by her desire to create a better world for her daughter, she embarked on what she lovingly calls her “mom mission”—a service journey dedicated to making her community and the world around her better. During her sabbatical from Silicon Valley into this transformative period, Cynthia launched LVL UP with CW, her brand, leveraging her expertise to help local and global businesses grow, evolve, and thrive. As an international social media influencer, she has used her platform not for fame or recognition, but for global impact, sharing messages of resilience, hope, and empowerment. This work is a lesson of intersectionality and bridges the worlds of fashion, sports, philanthropy, business, money, technology, spirituality, global preservation, health and wellness in hopes of leveling up and shifting the societal norms. She has partnered with brands across industries to elevate visibility, deepen engagement, and build authentic customer connections. Through brand ambassador relationships, social media management, and content creation, Cynthia has amplified voices, strengthened communities, and showcased how influence, when rooted in integrity, is a force for good. That same belief shines through in Cynthia Washington's powerful memoir, Mind Matters: The Story of My Life. Written during her sabbatical, the respectfully honest memoir captures her life's “grind with grit” story. The cover, graced by her daughter's original artwork, wraps her book with a big thank you hug, encapsulating the power of love that anchors Cynthia's bold voyage.  Mind Matters explores her corporate climb and fall, her studies at Columbia University, her travels across the United States with her daughter, the Aloha spirit of Hawaii, and her experiences in Hollywood and the music industry. Interwoven through these chapters are stories of friendship, including her personal connections with cultural icons like Eminem and Kobe Bryant, whose wisdom and creativity shaped what Cynthia calls The Trifecta - a guiding philosophy built on Kobe's Mamba Mentality, the music of Eminem, and her own life's work. Three forces that together drive her vision and her ability to live her socio-economic experiment proving money is a tool and the real power is in the mind. “You can do anything you set your mind to, man” - Eminem Mind Matters: The Story of My Life is available on Amazon and other major online retailers and can also be ordered through local bookstores. The memoir has been nominated for The Eric Hoffer Award for Excellence in Independent Publishing, a recognition of both its literary merit and its heartfelt message of perseverance. Yet, true to her character, Cynthia did not embark on this journey for fame or recognition—she wrote it to give back, to inspire, and to remind readers everywhere that no matter where you come from, with a healthy positive mindset you too can change the trajectory of your life. Beyond her work as an author and international leader, Cynthia lives a simple life.  She is a mom, a trailblazer, and an advocate, representing many initiatives that level up society and bridge societal gaps. She turned her pain into her strength and used that as fuel to ignite a movement.  Her heart is full of gratitude for all the bands and their aid, as they played a meaningful role in inspiring the Band Aid, a global movement for unity and peace that emerged during a time when the world needed hope most. A true Band Aid. Ways to connect with Cynthia**:** Instagram https://www.instagram.com/misscdub Linkedin  https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-washington-1b13a265 Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Matters-Story-My-Life/dp/B0DJRPQTY2 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're with us today, wherever you happen to be, hope you're having a good day, and hope that we can inspire you and make this a fun time for you as well. Our guest today is Cynthia Washington. Cynthia describes herself as standing at the intersection of strategy, leadership and an emotional intelligence, and I know that she's going to talk more about that and what what brought her to come to that conclusion, but I've been looking at her information. I think she's got a lot of interesting stuff to talk to us about, and we'll get to it. But for now, Cynthia, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Cynthia Washington  02:05 Oh, thank you, Michael. I appreciate being here and spending this time with you today, and I'm looking forward to our conversation. Michael Hingson  02:13 Well, I am as well. Well, why don't we start? I love to start this way with the the early Cynthia, if you will. Cynthia Washington  02:20 Of course, yes, the early Cynthia. I grew up in Pasadena, California, that Southern California, near the Rose Bowl in the San Gabriel Mountains. I attended an all girls private Catholic school for my seventh to 12th grades. I attended also Cal Poly Pomona, where I studied international business and marketing. And I love everything Southern California. I've always had this dream of living in Park City, and I ended up coming here in when was it 2004 so I've been here almost 21 years. Michael Hingson  03:04 So when you were at Cal Poly, did you help build the Rose Parade Float? Cynthia Washington  03:09 I did not build the Rose Parade Float, even though both Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and Cal Poly Pomona do a collaborative effort to build one every year since I grew up with the Rose Parade in my backyard, I had my own special moments with that. I always wanted to be on the Rose Parade court, and so my mom put me into a many different pageants, which helped prepare me and built my confidence so that I could be the person I am today. And I'm forever grateful for that experience like sports, it teaches you about competition, failure and set you up for success. Michael Hingson  04:05 Yes. And again, what did you study at Cal Poly, Cynthia Washington  04:10 international business and marketing? Okay, I originally started in microbiology. I had finished with the intention to become a doctor, and realized I could not stomach blood or needles, and so I quickly changed my major once I made that realization, and I changed my major to English, because I love reading Shakespeare Books. Everything is just so fascinating, fascinating about the English language and its literature. So I studied that for a little while, my father told me that I needed to do something different, and therefore I changed my major to international business and marketing. Michael Hingson  05:00 Hmm, that was different than English by any standard. Yeah. Cynthia Washington  05:06 So it was definitely different. Well, he is a businessman, a banker, and I think you know, for him, it was important for me to kind of follow in those footsteps, which I have, ironically, and I'm forever grateful for him for pushing me in a different direction, I use all three though, the science, the technology, the English and the international business skills in my current role, so, or roles, Michael Hingson  05:37 well, so you graduated. Did you go on and get any advanced degrees or just a bachelor's? Cynthia Washington  05:43 Oh, well, I did. It took me a while, too, though. I recently, in 2022 applied to Columbia University, actually Columbia Business School, and I completed their chief marketing officer executive education program with a Certificate in Business Excellence from Columbia Business School. So yes, I did eventually go back to school. However, I had a few careers in and amongst that along my path and my journey, which helped me have a more well rounded knowledge, yeah, to enter into that up advanced learning. Michael Hingson  06:35 So what did you do after you graduated from Cal Poly? Cynthia Washington  06:40 After I graduated from Cal Poly, I took a gap year, to be honest, and in that gap year, I learned so much about myself. I intersected with Hollywood for a brief moment in time, developed some really great, lasting friendships that have surpassed time. In addition to that, I skied, I snowboard, I learned to surf, and did all the things that I just needed to do as a California girl, yes, it was quite fun and bolted me into the person I am today. With that being said, I once again, had my father reminding me that it was time to get a job, and so I ventured into the management trainee program with enterprise run a car, climbed that corporate ladder, eventually having a territory from Santa Barbara to San Diego that I managed and oversaw a team inside one of our insurance partners headquarters, Which was really amazing opportunity. Then that took me, with a relocation package to Utah with my husband and our newborn baby to come and plant roots. Here he they enterprise was ahead of times in the fact that they wanted to harvest talent from different parts of the United States to strengthen the team they were building in Utah. My husband and I at the time, were part of that strategy, which was really an amazing opportunity, because I was one of a handful women managers that were brought on to the Utah team, and we were able to establish ourselves as influencers and leaders to help grow the women leadership network within Utah and Idaho for enterprise. Michael Hingson  09:14 You said, early I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. You said early on that you always wanted to go to Park City. Why was that? Sounds like, you know, you got to live your dream. But why was that? Yes. Cynthia Washington  09:26 Well, my father worked a lot, and for him to disconnect from work, we would come and visit Park City or travel to Hawaii. Well, we summer it every summer in Kauai for the month of July. So to contrast that we had time in Park City, Utah before it was what it has become, which was really fascinating. And I loved having the exposure to the Four Seasons and just the. Um, simple life that park city offered was really refreshing, coming from the hustle and bustle of Downtown LA and being in the city, it was just something I dreamt of, and I'm so grateful to have lived that dream, to be here and have to and to have raised my daughter here as well Michael Hingson  10:27 makes sense. And as I said, you now get to live your dream. You're living where you wanted to, and you've been there now for, like, 21 years, and you sound like you haven't changed your mind, you're very happy with it. Cynthia Washington  10:43 Yes, you know, my daughter's graduating college soon, and perhaps maybe I'll think of another location to move to. But for now, this is what I call home. This is where I've planted my my seeds and my roots for our little single mom family. So yeah, it's been great. Michael Hingson  11:06 Well, so you you say that you lived a social, socio economic experiment. Tell me more about what that means. Yes. Cynthia Washington  11:19 So while at Columbia University, I opted to live a socio economic experience to contrast the life that I grew up with. So as I mentioned, I attended Cal Poly, worked with enterprise, had a great career with them. When I came to Utah, I kept that career. After my divorce, I began another career at America first credit union. I saw, I saw that I needed to take a step back from the career world, and so I took a 20 hour teller position as I was figuring out my relationship with my husband and determining our next steps. And so once that was dissolved, I had this great team who saw my leadership skills and helped me climb another corporate ladder. After a few years one of my previous colleagues came to me and asked me to venture into Silicon Valley, doing business in Utah with a team, a Medicare sales team that I managed, and that was quite fascinating, talk about baptism by fire. I learned all things Medicare on the fly, and had a really amazing opportunity with that. And so I have steadily over time, climbed three different corporate ladders, made excellent income, six figures, generously raising my daughter here in Utah, and it has always been in the back of my mind to understand life from a different lens, to understand it with a different perspective. And so as a result, when I was in the Columbia application process, I had become really, really, really sick, deathly sick, I like to say I was on my death bed when I applied to Colombia because I was surviving on water and pressed juices for a little over a month, because I was having some difficulties internally. And so while I had that downtime, I had a lot of time to think, and it was important to me to apply at Columbia. Well, I originally applied to Northwestern and they recommended me to Columbia. And so when I did my Columbia application, it was important for me not to just take the northwestern recommendation, but to also set myself apart. And I thought, well, the socio economic experiment would be great at something I've been thinking about, you know, living life through a different lens. I had the savings built up so that I could do so. And I thought, Yes, I can do this. I can You can do anything you set your mind to. Quote. Eminem, I did. I did that. I lived it. I abandoned my ego, I abandoned all the luxurious items that I had, and lived this truly simple life. And it was quite fascinating, because the more I trusted that process, the more I grew and became still and trusted God's guidance in this journey that I was creating. Fast forward through the social media aspect of everything, I was reminded of some Hollywood friends that I had forgotten about, to be honest. And I don't know how you forget about them, but I did, because I never really spoke about those tender moments I had, and cherish them within my heart and my soul. But I was overcoming this really traumatic experience, a bad, bad relationship that put me into hiding, yet with being at Columbia, living the socio economic experiment and sharing my life through my social media influencer role, my Hollywood friends found me in a time of need, and through this reintroduction, I was reminded of a night I like to coin as dream night, and I call it dream night because that's the night I met Marshall Mathers, who the world knows as Eminem, and he and I were from completely different aspects of life, with completely different perspectives on life, and yet, when we met, we intersected. I was leaving Hollywood, he was coming into it, and we spent together, as silly as it sounds, playing beer pong, thinking through all of the world's problems. And in that conversation, I had mentioned that one day I was going to go to Columbia, and one day I was going to live the socio economic experiment so that I could help the world. And you know, he envisioned his dream of becoming this rap star, and together, we would reunite our forces for good to help elevate the world. And I forgot about this moment in time, to be quite honest, I just continued on a path that I naturally was creating when I was younger, because before meeting Marshall, I had met Kobe Bryant while I was a student graduating Cal Poly, and he was new, upcoming rising superstar into basketball. He had his eye on Vanessa. Her group of friends were very smart, and he knew he needed to knowledge up to get his girl. And so here I was this book smart girl, kind of hanging out in Hollywood. I had worked a job at Staples Center, because I love the Lakers, and it was really cool. I, you know, had me more court side than it did have me working because I gave away more of my tables, and I did actually work to spend time building these relationships with Kobe and the Lakers, which I'm so forever grateful for, and because Kobe recognized my book smart, his spotlight and together, we would have these Kobe talks, which ultimately built the framework for Mama mentality and my only ask of him as I exited Hollywood and that era of my life was that he named mob and mentality, mob and mentality, which he did. And so I, you know, I had. Had Mamba mentality. This up and comer rap star Eminem, who, honestly, I didn't even know was Eminem. For me, he was this guy from Detroit that I met through my friend Travis Barker, who happened to be the drummer blink, 182 but I was so unaware of all these people and who they were. They were, to me, were just people I knew and friends that I had. And, you know, fast forward to where we're at now. It's like we're all living our dreams, and it's really super cool. But the socio economic experiment came from that dream night with Marshall and this whole concept of who and how we wanted to be in this future version of ourselves and I wanted to be this socio economic experiment to understand life through a different lens, especially after meeting him that One night and hearing his life experience, my life experience that you know, it was fascinating to me, like I want, I I want to help people, but to truly help people and bridge those societal gaps that exist, Cynthia Washington  21:16 one has To have a full scope of life through all perspectives, and this opportunity through Columbia, with this experiment, positioned me to really embrace that, and now I am very happy because I think it has helped me appreciate the quality, true quality of life. You know, it's not about the money, it's not about the fame, it's not about the recognition. It's about love and family and caring and nurturing one another Michael Hingson  21:59 with and I would presume that you would say that that's what you learned from the experiment, Cynthia Washington  22:05 yes, yes, absolutely. That's what I learned. You know, here, as I was climbing all these different corporate ladders, I always thought it was about having more you know, having more money, having more things, having a bigger house, a nicer car and all this stuff, but truly abandoning all that stuff allowed me to live more because I appreciated the true moment as A gift, especially from being on my deathbed, you know, to being able to live each day to its fullest, that in and amongst itself, was a gift to me, and learning to be present for my daughter was a present for Me. And so these were all things that socio economic experiment taught me about appreciating life. Michael Hingson  23:07 So where do concepts like gratitude come into all of that? And how is gratitude help keep you centered and kind of moving forward? Cynthia Washington  23:18 Great question through this journey I've been on, I've learned to live each day with a grateful heart. I wake up daily appreciative of the moment, to be alive, regardless of what I have or what accomplishments I've achieved. I truly am thankful for the gift of life. And with that being said, I live in a spirit of Thanksgiving, not because Thanksgiving is on the horizon and the holidays grow near, but because having that gratitude rooted in my soul has helped me Stay focused on my Why stay firm in my beliefs and trust the process every step of the way, living with gratitude has just opened my Heart to the possibilities, and it's been a phenomenal growth experience. The more I give thanks, the more I give, the more I serve, the better I lead, the stronger I am, and the more abundant the blessings are. Are, and it's just truly remarkable to be this vessel for good living life with the spirit of Thanksgiving. Michael Hingson  25:12 If somebody were to ask you, how can you teach me how to really have gratitude and make it a part of my life, what? What kind of advice or what kind of guidance can you give someone to help them learn to be a person who's more grateful or have more gratitude? Wow, um, Cynthia Washington  25:33 if someone is looking to have more gratitude and develops a process in establishing more gratitude. I think it would just be to reframe your focus instead of, oh, I don't have these things, right? That's when I let go of my Louis vuittons my fancy car, and, you know, sold all my really nice clothes that you know, just to have some extra cash to accomplish more of my goals, I let go of all Those materialistic things. And instead of having the mindset of like, Oh, I'm getting rid of these things, I was I saw it as an opportunity. So I guess what I'm saying is to reframe, instead of it being like, I don't have these things, or the woe is me attitude reframe that too. I am blessed with a family, I am blessed with food, I am blessed with shelter, I am blessed with a job that provides me with stability. I am blessed with the person in the mirror who has awoken for this moment in time, awoken, awaked it has. How do you say that? Awakened, that's fine. Awakened, yeah, has awakened in this moment, you know, for another beautiful day, and then after that, reframing of the mindset, focus on the positives and count your blessings. I know that sounds so cliche, but be grateful for this. Yes, be grateful for the things that you do have, the people who love you love is the most durable power that there is, you know, and having that focus on those good things with a positive mindset reframed from the negative, you can easily shape yourself into a person who lives with gratitude and then reciprocate it. You know, as you, as you go about your day, give that gratitude to someone else with a nice smile or a thank you. And people can feel a thank you. People can feel a smile. People can feel that authentic, genuine sense of gratitude in any capacity of life. And that is far more reaching than that negative I don't have I don't have enough. I don't I'm not qualified for this type of negative mindset that weighs people down. Instead, when you live with gratitude, you feel lighter, you feel more alive, and you feel unstoppable. Michael Hingson  29:09 Have you ever read a book by a gentleman named Henry Drummond called Love the greatest thing in the world? Cynthia Washington  29:18 No, but it sounds like something I would enjoy reading. It's Michael Hingson  29:21 more, it's very short, but he he talks all about the fact that love is, in fact, the greatest thing in the most powerful thing in the world, and that that it is something that we all ought to express and deal with a whole lot more than than we do. Was written in, in, I think, the late 1800s I believe. But it is, it is well worth reading. As I said, it's very short. I've read the audio version, and it only takes an hour, so it's not very long book. But it doesn't need Cynthia Washington  29:59 to be well. I will definitely add that to my reading list, because my step brother called me love and it's my nickname, and all the work I have done while on my mom mission after Columbia and over the past few years to help bridge societal gaps, to make the world better for my daughter, her friends and our children and the world ultimately stems from love and gratitude and love are to my focuses. There you go. Michael Hingson  30:46 And as makes a lot of sense, as they should be well. So what have you been doing? Well, so you worked for enterprise, and then you went on, I guess, to do some other things. But what have you been doing since Columbia? Cynthia Washington  31:02 Well, since Columbia, my last class at Columbia was in finance. I studied finance, macro economics. And one more thing I forgot, that's okay. So anyway, well, my last class at Columbia was in finance and Oh, corporate governance, yes. So at Columbia, I studied corporate governance, macroeconomics and finance, while also completing my chief marketing officer executive education requirements and my last class being in finance aligned with Zions Bank, 150 year anniversary of being in business. I thought, wow, this is quite timely. Zions Bank is highly reputable, very respected organization in Utah. And I wanted to work with them while I finished Columbia, and initially I took a role to just kind of understand money real time, working on the front lines across a variety of different branches, and now I still work with them. I am in their retail banking administration department. I work with a great team. I am close to the SVPs, EBPs, and with the branches, our clients. I work on multiple different projects, doing different things, which is so fascinating because I'm in the heartbeat of the business, and it satisfies my my desire to stay relevant and use all my skill sets for good, because I have that ability to touch so many different people and projects in the work that I do at science bank, it allows me the flexibility to maintain my social media influencer status, and both give me the stability to be a good single mom for my daughter who's finishing Up in college. So I'm very grateful for that opportunity, and Colombia opens so many doors. As far as the social media marketing piece of the work I've done since Columbia, I sit on a handful of boards, Big Brothers, Big Sisters. I am on the boulder way forward legislative committee as a chair, and I continue to just do a bunch of philanthropic work, which I. I'm able to promote and highlight within the social media work that I do, so the two work beautifully together, and I am happy just to give back in the capacity I can using my skill sets at a maximized level, Michael Hingson  35:24 okay, well, you also formed your own company, didn't you? Cynthia Washington  35:29 Yes, I did form my own company. It's called level up with C dub, and that business has allowed me to work with amazing brands throughout Park Cities, silicon slopes and globally. It started, yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. It started because I wanted to level up my community and bridge some gaps that I saw, and then it has grown into something bigger and better in the fact that the work that I'm doing is not only helping local businesses, but it's helping level up our youth, and creating an opportunity for our youth to follow a yellow brick road, so to speak, with my work that I have put forth so that they are more resilient, emotionally intelligent, and have the mental strength To endure this ever changing world. So it's been quite interesting to see how it's shifted from helping businesses mentoring individuals into this new space. Michael Hingson  37:14 And so what does the company do today? What? What you talk about helping youth and so on? Tell me a little bit more about what what you do and how you do it, and is it just you, or do you have other people in the company? Cynthia Washington  37:27 No, it's just me. Just now, just me. Yes, I don't have enough time to invest in it because Zions is my nine to five. I work at a local boutique in town to stay in the heartbeat of town, you know. And then I have the social media stuff that I do. So my calendar is quite full. The level up with C dub work has been word of mouth, and people like you have sought me through various platforms, and I like that. I'm not ready to scale it yet, even though it is scalable, but I like being able to control the the the incoming work and produce high quality products with my brand name attached to it. So right now, it's something that exists. Um, it's something it's a labor of love, and so I'm not quite ready to bring on a team, because it's multi faceted. There's a lot of mentoring, there's a lot of coaching, there's a lot of brand building, and these are all things that I just like to do on my own. Michael Hingson  39:20 So what kind of things do you do you do from a mentoring standpoint, what? What exactly does the company do? Cynthia Washington  39:28 Well, from a mentoring standpoint, I mentor across different platforms. I just received an Impact Award for mentoring girls in the tech realm of silicon slopes, over 1000 Utah high schoolers, actually, 1000s of high school girls have been mentored through this program called she tech, of which I am a part of and. Um, in addition to that, I have middle level professionals who want to level up within their career, who utilize me and my services to help coach them to their next corporate move. And so there's some one on one time. People hire me. I fit them into my schedule. We work together. They call me, you know, hey, I have this moment at work that's happening and I need some guidance. How do I navigate it? You know, sometimes it's easier to talk through that situation with a coach than it is to talk through it with your peer or manager, because you don't want to take away the integrity of the the momentum you've created at work. So I act as at sounding board for a handful of other executive, young executives who are up and coming, rising into their career, and so it's it's multifaceted. Everything's been word of mouth, and I don't have a website. I started with one, I perhaps might go back to creating one. But for now, everything is pretty manageable. I just wear a lot of different hats and work through a lot of different projects, helping many different people across different platforms. Michael Hingson  41:48 How do you keep it all together? Cynthia Washington  41:53 Great question. I use a calendar. I write a lot of notes down. I have a very systematic approach to everything that I have going on. I've learned to say no and to prioritize what's most important. I had an executive coach when I was in Silicon Valley and working in the Medicare realm of business and my executive coach brought so much value into being that sounding board for me and Springboarding My career that giving back in that same capacity is so rewarding for me. I find enjoyment out of it, and the busier I am, the more full I feel my life is. And so right now, I manage it all by writing it down and keeping it organized. You know, in my calendars, thankfully, there's flexibility with all that I do, which allows me to be very agile and giving back in the level up with C dub work that I do. Michael Hingson  43:21 Well, it sounds like when you had access to an executive coach, you were very observant about what they did, so that you could do that same sort of thing and pass it on. Because it sounds like you you took to heart the lessons you learned from that coach. Absolutely. Cynthia Washington  43:40 I had the best executive coach. And you know, when I was on my deathbed, she reached out to me and cared for me even though I was no longer her client. You know, we had become friends through that relationship, and I want to be that person for someone else, and that's why right now, I don't have anyone on my team with me, and I don't have an intention of scaling it At this point in time, because I try to, I to take on the workload with intention and purpose so that I can authentically lead and give back to help others grow and thrive within their realm of life, right? Michael Hingson  44:46 Well, you have written a book. Tell us about that and what what it is, and anything you want to talk about, Cynthia Washington  44:54 yeah, this is a book right here for those who. You are able to see Michael Hingson  45:04 it, and it's called Mind Matters. Cynthia Washington  45:07 Yes, sir, Mind Matters. It's the story of my life. It's a memoir encompasses everything and an easy to read book. It encompasses my travels, my corporate climb and fall, my Columbia education and studies, how I overcame some big hurdles with a grind, with grit, mindset and mentality. My time in Hollywood, what I like to call the trifecta me, Eminem and Kobe, and my work, the music of Eminem and Mama mentality with those three things, you can achieve anything. And what else does it include? Oh, it just has some really fun tales of growing up in California. I and some principles, guiding principles I learned from Columbia University that I wanted to encapsulate into this book and share again to give back to others. It's modestly priced on Amazon. You can buy it wherever books are sold. It's I didn't write it for fame or recognition. I respectfully share stories about my friends in Hollywood. Good and, yeah, it's a fun a fun story. I released it a year ago, October 10, and did my first book launch release party, November 15. And so it's really fun to see it become what it has, and to see its ripple effects throughout society. Michael Hingson  47:32 What did you learn about you from writing the book? Cynthia Washington  47:39 Oh, well, writing a book requires a lot of self discipline. I learned that I have lived a story rich with abundant blessings, and I learned that I have accomplished so much with having That spirit of gratitude. I grind it with grit, resilience, that has catapulted me into the space that I am living in now. However, it was also a very humbling experience as I wrote the book, I it healed me in some ways, because I had been in hiding for a year, and as much As I was sharing my life on social media, I was still afraid to live my life because I was in hiding, and so it helped me heal from that trauma, which is why I have it modestly priced, because if I can help someone else overcome something as traumatic that I have lived by sharing my story and giving hope through my story, then I want to put it out there. I'm not in it for money. I'm in it so I can help our society through this humanitarian effort, you know, and sharing a little bit about me might help someone in their time of need. So, yes, I love. Learned. I learned to heal, I learned to trust the process, and I learned who I am. Michael Hingson  50:08 It makes a lot of sense. And I asked the question, having written three books and learning from all three of them, various things about me, but also just learning to have the discipline and to go into that place where you can create something that hopefully people in the world will appreciate. I think that's that's a really cool thing, and clearly you've done that. Cynthia Washington  50:38 Yes, thank you, and you definitely can understand that, you know, you put your heart and soul into this book of creative mindfulness, and it's truly rewarding to share it with other people. And I like to say my books wrapped with my daughter's big thank you hug, because it's wrapped in her artwork that she drew, that I have framed, and I thought it was a perfect cover for it. And it's it's really a blessing to have gone through the trauma, live through it, and for her to see this work of art, share my story and help others and her. Thank you. Hug around it is even a bigger form of love Michael Hingson  51:44 you have won, and you mentioned it earlier, a she Peck she tech champion Impact Award. Tell us about that award, what it is, and a little bit more about why you won one and so on. Cynthia Washington  51:58 Yes, so while at Columbia, I did the level up with CW work, I worked with Zions Bank, had the social media influencer role, and I aligned with a lot of great women and businesses throughout Park City, Salt Lake and silicon slopes, those women became friends and she Tech was founded by one of my friends, and I became involved in that about five years ago, as a mentor, a role model, an influencer, helping young girls learn that there is opportunity in The tech space. Technology space for women and girls learning and their worth, their their value and creating opportunities for them. And so through the social media aspect, I have been able to share to share the great work of she tech and women tech Council and some other brands that I've aligned with to help young girls see other women leaders actively working and living in these different capacities. So all of the work that I do goes hand in hand with this mentoring space and helping our youth see their potential. Chi Tech, I was one of 30 who received that award this year, I was humbly honored to be a recipient of the award. I knew the work I was doing was focused on my love to change the world for my daughter and make the world a better place for her, her friends and ultimately, all children. I just didn't realize how far reaching my impact was until I received the email notifying me of this. Impact Award, and when I stood on stage with all these other champions, champions, champion champions, championing change and this trajectory of our world. It just reinforced all of the work I have done and the profound impact it's having on our youth today, and it's remarkable to like. I can't, I can't express the depth it has, because it's so far reaching, and it's something beyond my wildest dreams that I've created through my work, through all these different intersections of strategic marketing and social media brand work and leading by Cynthia Washington  56:16 good and using my influence for good. And it's just truly amazing to see that I've helped 1000s of teenage girls understand their potential, their value and their worth, knowing that there's so many different possibilities in the tech space for them to learn, grow and do Michael Hingson  56:47 well, congratulations on winning the award. That's a that's a cool thing, and obviously you're making a big difference. Cynthia Washington  56:57 Thank you so much. I'm still so humbled, and I keep having to ground myself because I never expected to be in this moment. I simply was a mom on a mission to change the trajectory for my daughter, and receiving this award was something I never expected, and I keep ground, grounding myself, because I just I'm so humbly honored to have received it, and to have come to this, this elevated level of where I'm at in my current life, by giving up everything, I became something so much bigger and better than I ever expected or or planned for myself, and it's profound to me, and I just have to constantly ground myself and remind myself like that it's it's okay to be here. Michael Hingson  58:17 That's what gratitude can do, and that's what gratitude obviously does for you, because you you clearly exhibit a lot of gratitude in in all that you say and all that you do. And I think that's extremely important. People really should think a little bit more about gratitude than they then they typically do. But you know, it is something that that clearly you have put in the forefront of of your being. You do a lot with social media. And tell me a little bit more about about that as we move forward here and get close to wrapping up. Cynthia Washington  58:57 Well, yes, I do do a lot on social media, but before I answer that question, you found me through social media, and I want you to share a little bit about how you discovered me knowing that you're unable to see a lot of the content I create. So how were you able to find me? And then I'll answer that question. Tell me what intrigued you Michael Hingson  59:31 when you say not see the content, like, What do you mean? Cynthia Washington  59:36 Well, you have a blindness, vision impairment, correct, Michael Hingson  59:46 not an impairment, but that's okay, but, but what is it that I don't see exactly? Cynthia Washington  59:52 How do you see my social media content for you to be able to find. Michael Hingson  1:00:00 I use a piece of software that verbalizes whatever comes across the computer screen, so hearing the the text, listening to what your profile on LinkedIn says about you and so on, is all just as straightforward for me as it is for you, and to describe that in great detail would be like me asking you how you do what you do. It's what we grow up learning. The reality is, blindness isn't the problem. That's why I said it's not an impairment, because people always think about blindness as a visual impairment. Well, visually, I'm not different because I'm blind and I'm not impaired because I am blind, if, if the reality is impairment has nothing to do with it, and we really need to get away from thinking that someone is less than someone else because they may not have the same senses that that we do. And while I don't necessarily have eyesight, I have other gifts that I've learned to maximize, and probably the greatest gift of all, is that I don't happen to be light dependent like you are. The reality is that for you, when there's a power failure or something that causes all the lights and everything to go out, you scramble looking for an iPhone or a smartphone or a flashlight or something to bring light in, because we spent a lot of time bringing light on demand. To you ever since the light bulb was invented, I don't have that problem. The power goes out, doesn't bother me a bit. The reality is we've got to get away from this idea of thing that somebody is impaired because they don't have some things that we do. There are a lot of ways to get information, and eyesight is only one of them. Cynthia Washington  1:01:48 I love that, and that's exactly why I wanted you to explain that, because I think that's super important as we discuss unstoppable mindset. I think that's a critical necessity for society to learn and to know, and because you were able to find me using these great resources that you have and the work I'm putting forth intrigued you to bring me into this meeting with you. So I am, again, so grateful that we have this opportunity to collaborate in this space, bringing both our good works together to Oh, help level up awareness that there are no limits. We are unstoppable. Glasses shattering everywhere because of people like you and me who are doing this good work to change the trajectory of the world, and social media for me, has given me the opportunity to do what you do in this podcast. Michael Hingson  1:03:14 If you want people to be able to reach out to you and interact with you, how best can they do that Cynthia Washington  1:03:22 the like you did through LinkedIn is great. That's how I do receive most of my work is through LinkedIn. People find me there and will message me through then, LinkedIn, what? Michael Hingson  1:03:43 What's your LinkedIn name or your house? Cynthia Washington  1:03:47 Cynthia Washington. Okay, that's easy, yes. Cynthia Washington, Park City, Salt Lake City, will get you to me. Another outlet is through Instagram. I'm little bit more hesitant to reply to the direct messages on Instagram. I do try to filter a lot of my content and screen things. So I do trust LinkedIn a little bit more. As far as the messaging component is concerned, also, I have provided you with my email which you're happy I'm happy for you to share. Okay, so any of those three means will get you connected to me. I do not have a website. As I said, everything is organic, authentic and word of mouth. My Plate is really full, and so I like to be selective of the projects I bring on in hopes that they give back to society in one way or another. Lacher, I'm not doing it to chase every deal or get a bunch of free product. I do it with a very intentional Spirit giving back with gratitude that karmic effect goes a long way well. Michael Hingson  1:05:18 I hope people will reach out. You clearly have a lot to offer, and I think you've you've given us a lot to think about today, which I appreciate a great deal. So thank you very much for that. I want to thank all of you who are listening or watching our podcast today, or maybe you're doing both listening and watching. That's okay too. I want to thank you for being here with us. Love to get your thoughts. If you have any messages or our ideas you want to pass along. Love it if you'd reach out to me. Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I B, e.com, you can and I would appreciate it if you would, wherever you're listening or watching this podcast, give us a five star rating, and please give us a review. We really value your reviews highly, and I would appreciate it if you would do that. If you know of anyone Cynthia, you as well, who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. Introduce us. We're always looking for people to come on to help show everyone that we're all more unstoppable than we think we are. But again, Cynthia, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Can you believe we've been doing this over an hour already? Cynthia Washington  1:06:37 Oh no, not at all. Oh yeah. Well, I am so forever grateful again, and as we head into the holidays, just remind everyone to live with a spirit of gratitude, be kind to others. And there are no limits. It's time to shatter those limits that we have created as barriers and Live limitless with an unstoppable mindset. Michael Hingson  1:07:09 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. 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