Podcasts about national federation

What happens when your voice is built through visuals, not volume? In this Unstoppable Mindset episode, I talk with photographer and storyteller Mobeen Ansari about growing up with hearing loss, learning speech with support from his family and the John Tracy Center, and using technology to stay connected in real time. We also explore how his art became a bridge across culture and faith, from documenting religious minorities in Pakistan to chronicling everyday heroes, and why he feels urgency to photograph climate change before more communities, heritage sites, and ways of life are lost. You'll hear how purpose grows when you share your story in a way that helps others feel less alone, and why Mobeen believes one story can become a blueprint for someone else to navigate their own challenge. Highlights: 00:03:54 - Learn how early family support can shape confidence, communication, and independence for life. 00:08:31 - Discover how deciding when to capture a moment can define your values as a storyteller. 00:15:14 - Learn practical ways to stay fully present in conversations when hearing is a daily challenge. 00:23:24 - See how unexpected role models can redefine what living fully looks like at any stage of life. 00:39:15 - Understand how visual storytelling can cross cultural and faith boundaries without words. 00:46:38 - Learn why documenting climate change now matters before stories, places, and communities disappear. About the Guest: Mobeen Ansari is a photographer, filmmaker and artist from Islamabad, Pakistan. Having a background in fine arts, he picked up the camera during high school and photographed his surroundings and friends- a path that motivated him to be a pictorial historian. His journey as a photographer and artist is deeply linked to a challenge that he had faced since after his birth.  Three weeks after he was born, Mobeen was diagnosed with hearing loss due to meningitis, and this challenge has inspired him to observe people more visually, which eventually led him to being an artist. He does advocacy for people with hearing loss.  Mobeen's work focuses on his home country of Pakistan and its people, promoting a diverse & poetic image of his country through his photos & films. As a photojournalist he focuses on human interest stories and has extensively worked on topics of climate change, global health and migration. Mobeen has published three photography books. His first one, ‘Dharkan: The Heartbeat of a Nation', features portraits of iconic people of Pakistan from all walks of life. His second book, called ‘White in the Flag' is based on the lives & festivities of religious minorities in Pakistan. Both these books have had two volumes published over the years. His third book is called ‘Miraas' which is also about iconic people of Pakistan and follows ‘Dharkan' as a sequel. Mobeen has also made two silent movies; 'Hellhole' is a black and white short film, based on the life of a sanitation worker, and ‘Lady of the Emerald Scarf' is based on the life of Aziza, a carpet maker in Guilmit in Northern Pakistan. He has exhibited in Pakistan & around the world, namely in UK, Italy, China Iraq, & across the US and UAE. His photographs have been displayed in many famous places as well, including Times Square in New York City. Mobeen is also a recipient of the Swedish Red Cross Journalism prize for his photography on the story of FIFA World Cup football manufacture in Sialkot. Ways to connect with Mobeen**:** www.mobeenansari.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/mobeenart  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mobeenansari/ Instagram: @mobeenansariphoto X: @Mobeen_Ansari About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host. Michael Hingson, we're really glad that you are here, and today we are going to talk to Mobeen Ansari, and Mobeen is in Islamabad. I believe you're still in Islamabad, aren't you? There we go. I am, yeah. And so, so he is 12 hours ahead of where we are. So it is four in the afternoon here, and I can't believe it, but he's up at four in the morning where he is actually I get up around the same time most mornings, but I go to bed earlier than he does. Anyway. We're really glad that he is here. He is a photographer, he speaks he's a journalist in so many ways, and we're going to talk about all of that as we go forward. Mobin also is profoundly hard of hearing. Uses hearing aids. He was diagnosed as being hard of hearing when he was three weeks old. So I'm sure we're going to talk about that a little bit near the beginning, so we'll go ahead and start. So mo bean, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad that you're here. Mobeen Ansari  02:32 It's a pleasure to be here, and I'm honored to plan your show. Thank you so much. Michael Hingson  02:37 Well, thank you very much, and I'm glad that we're able to make this work, and I should explain that he is able to read what is going on the screen. I use a program called otter to transcribe when necessary, whatever I and other people in a meeting, or in this case, in a podcast, are saying, and well being is able to read all of that. So that's one of the ways, and one of the reasons that we get to do this in real time. So it's really kind of cool, and I'm really excited by that. Well, let's go ahead and move forward. Why don't you tell us a little about the early Beau beam growing up? And obviously that starts, that's where your adventure starts in a lot of ways. So why don't you tell us about you growing up and all that. Mobeen Ansari  03:22 So I'm glad you mentioned the captions part, because, you know, that has been really, really revolutionary. That has been quite a lifesaver, be it, you know, Netflix, be it anywhere I go into your life, I read captions like there's an app on my phone that I use for real life competitions, and that's where I, you know, get everything. That's where technology is pretty cool. So I do that because of my hearing does, as you mentioned, when I was three weeks old, I had severe meningitis due to it, had lost hearing in both my ear and so when my hearing loss were diagnosed, it was, you know, around the time we didn't have resources, the technology that we do today. Michael Hingson  04:15 When was that? What year was that about? Mobeen Ansari  04:19 1986 okay, sorry, 1987 so yeah, so they figured that I had locked my hearing at three weeks of age, but didn't properly diagnose it until I think I was three months old. So yeah, then January was my diagnosis, okay. Michael Hingson  04:44 And so how did you how did you function, how did you do things when you were, when you were a young child? Because at that point was kind of well, much before you could use a hearing aid and learn to speak and so on. So what? Mobeen Ansari  05:00 You do. So my parents would have a better memory of that than I would, but I would say that they were, you know, extra hard. They went an extra mile. I mean, I would say, you know, 100 extra mile. My mother learned to be a peace therapist, and my father. He learned to be he learned how to read audiogram, to learn the audiology, familiarize himself with hearing a technology with an engineer support. My parents work around me. David went to a lot of doctors, obviously, I was a very difficult child, but I think that actually laid the foundation in me becoming an artist. Because, you know, today, the hearing is it fits right into my ear so you cannot see it, basically because my hair is longer. But back then, hearing aids used to be almost like on a harness, and you to be full of quiet, so you would actually stick out like a sore thumb. So, you know, obviously you stand out in a crowd. So I would be very conscious, and I would often, you know, get asked what this is. So I would say, this is a radio but for most part of my childhood, I was very introverted, but I absolutely love art. My grandmother's for the painter, and she was also photographer, as well as my grandfather, the hobbyist photographer, and you know, seeing them create all of the visuals in different ways, I was inspired, and I would tell my stories in form of sketching or making modified action figures. And photography was something I picked up way later on in high school, when the first digital camera had just come out, and I finally started in a really interacting with the world. Michael Hingson  07:13 So early on you you drew because you didn't really use the camera yet. And I think it's very interesting how much your parents worked to make sure they could really help you. As you said, Your mother was a speech you became a speech therapist, and your father learned about the technologies and so on. So when did you start using hearing aids? That's Mobeen Ansari  07:42 a good question. I think I probably started using it when I was two years old. Okay, yeah, yeah, that's gonna start using it, but then, you know, I think I'll probably have to ask my parents capacity, but a moment, Mobeen Ansari  08:08 you know, go ahead, I think they worked around me. They really improvised on the situation. They learned at the went along, and I think I learned speech gradually. Did a lot of, you know, technical know, how about this? But I would also have to credit John Troy clinic in Los Angeles, because, you know, back then, there was no mobile phone, there were no emails, but my mother would put in touch with John Troy center in LA and they would send a lot of material back and forth for many years, and they would provide a guidance. They would provide her a lot of articles, a lot of details on how to help me learn speech. A lot of visuals were involved. And because of the emphasis on visuals, I think that kind of pushed me further to become an artist, because I would speak more, but with just so to Michael Hingson  09:25 say so, it was sort of a natural progression for you, at least it seemed that way to you, to start using art as a way to communicate, as opposed as opposed to talking. Mobeen Ansari  09:39 Yeah, absolutely, you know, so I would like pass forward a little bit to my high school. You know, I was always a very shy child up until, you know, my early teens, and the first camera had just come out, this was like 2001 2002 at. It. That's when my dad got one, and I would take that to school today. You know, everyone has a smartphone back then, if you had a camera, you're pretty cool. And that is what. I started taking pictures of my friends. I started taking pictures of my teachers, of landscapes around me. And I would even capture, you know, funniest of things, like my friend getting late for school, and one day, a friend of mine got into a fight because somebody stole his girlfriend, or something like that happened, you know, that was a long time ago, and he lost the fight, and he turned off into the world court to cry, and he was just sort of, you're trying to hide all his vulnerability. I happened to be in the same place as him, and I had my camera, and I was like, should I capture this moment, or should I let this permit go? And well, I decided to capture it, and that is when human emotion truly started to fascinate me. So I was born in a very old city. I live in the capital of Islamabad right now, but I was born in the city of travel to be and that is home to lots of old, you know, heritage sites, lots of old places, lots of old, interesting scenes. And you know, that always inspired you, that always makes you feel alive. And I guess all of these things came together. And, you know, I really got into the art of picture storytelling. And by the end of my high school graduation, everybody was given an award. The certificate that I was given was, it was called pictorial historian, and that is what inspired me to really document everything. Document my country. Document is people, document landscape. In fact, that award it actually has in my studio right now been there for, you know, over 21 years, but it inspired me luck to this day. Michael Hingson  12:20 So going back to the story you just told, did you tell your friend that you took pictures of him when he was crying? Mobeen Ansari  12:32 Eventually, yes, I would not talk. You're familiar with the content back then, but the Catholic friend, I know so I mean, you know everyone, you're all kids, so yeah, very, yeah, that was a very normal circumstance. But yeah, you know, Michael Hingson  12:52 how did he react when you told him, Mobeen Ansari  12:56 Oh, he was fine. It's pretty cool about it, okay, but I should probably touch base with him. I haven't spoken to him for many years that Yeah, Michael Hingson  13:08 well, but as long as Yeah, but obviously you were, you were good friends, and you were able to continue that. So that's, that's pretty cool. So you, your hearing aids were also probably pretty large and pretty clunky as well, weren't they? Mobeen Ansari  13:26 Yeah, they were. But you know, with time my hearing aid became smaller. Oh sure. So hearing aid model that I'm wearing right now that kind of started coming in place from 1995 1995 96 onwards. But you know, like, even today, it's called like BDE behind the ear, hearing it even today, I still wear the large format because my hearing loss is more it's on the profound side, right? Just like if I take my hearing, it off. I cannot hear but that's a great thing, because if I don't want to listen to anybody, right, and I can sleep peacefully at night. Michael Hingson  14:21 Have you ever used bone conduction headphones or earphones? Mobeen Ansari  14:30 But I have actually used something I forgot what is called, but these are very specific kind of ear bone that get plugged into your hearing it. So once you plug into that, you cannot hear anything else. But it discontinued that. So now they use Bluetooth. Michael Hingson  14:49 Well, bone conduction headphones are, are, are devices that, rather than projecting the audio into your ear, they actually. Be projected straight into the bone and bypassing most of the ear. And I know a number of people have found them to be useful, like, if you want to listen to music and so on, or listen to audio, you can connect them. There are Bluetooth versions, and then there are cable versions, but the sound doesn't go into your ear. It goes into the bone, which is why they call it bone conduction. Mobeen Ansari  15:26 Okay, that's interesting, I think. Michael Hingson  15:29 And some of them do work with hearing aids as well. Mobeen Ansari  15:34 Okay, yeah, I think I've experienced that when they do the audio can test they put, like at the back of your head or something? Michael Hingson  15:43 Yeah, the the most common one, at least in the United States, and I suspect most places, is made by a company called aftershocks. I think it's spelled A, F, T, E, R, S, H, O, k, s, but something to think about. Anyway. So you went through high school mostly were, were your student colleagues and friends, and maybe not always friends? Were they pretty tolerant of the fact that you were a little bit different than they were. Did you ever have major problems with people? Mobeen Ansari  16:22 You know, I've actually had a great support system, and for most part, I actually had a lot of amazing friends from college who are still my, you know, friend to the dead, sorry, from school. I'm actually closer to my friend from school than I am two friends of college difficulties. You know, if you're different, you'll always be prone to people who sort of are not sure how to navigate that, or just want, you know, sort of test things out. So to say, so it wasn't without his problems, but for most part of it's surprisingly, surprisingly, I've had a great support system, but, you know, the biggest challenge was actually not being able to understand conversation. So I'm going to go a bit back and forth on the timeline here. You know, if so, in 2021, I had something known as menus disease. Menier disease is something, it's an irregular infection that arises from stress, and what happens is that you're hearing it drops and it is replaced by drinking and bathing and all sorts of real according to my experience, it affects those with hearing loss much more than it affects those with regular, normal hearing. It's almost like tinnitus on steroids. That is how I would type it. And I've had about three occurrences of that, either going to stress or being around loud situations and noises, and that is where it became so challenging that it became difficult to hear, even with hearing it or lip reading. So that is why I use a transcriber app wherever I go, and that been a lifesaver, you know. So I believe that every time I have evolved to life, every time I have grown up, I've been able to better understand people to like at the last, you know, four years I've been using this application to now, I think I'm catching up on all the nuances of conversation that I've missed. Right if I would talk to you five years ago, I would probably understand 40% of what you're saying. I would understand it by reading your lips or your body language or ask you to write or take something for me, but now with this app, I'm able to actually get to 99% of the conversation. So I think with time, people have actually become more tired and more accepting, and now there is more awareness. I think, awareness, right? Michael Hingson  19:24 Well, yeah, I was gonna say it's been an only like the last four years or so, that a lot of this has become very doable in real time, and I think also AI has helped the process. But do you find that the apps and the other technologies, like what we use here, do you find that occasionally it does make mistakes, or do you not even see that very much at all? Mobeen Ansari  19:55 You know it does make mistakes, and the biggest problem is when there is no data, when there is no. Wide network, or if it runs out of battery, you know, because now I kind of almost 24/7 so my battery just integrate that very fast. And also because, you know, if I travel in remote regions of Pakistan, because I'm a photographer, my job to travel to all of these places, all of these hidden corners. So I need to have conversation, especially in those places. And if that ad didn't work there, then we have a problem. Yeah, that is when it's problem. Sometimes, depending on accidents, it doesn't pick up everything. So, you know, sometimes that happens, but I think technology is improving. Michael Hingson  20:50 Let me ask the question. Let me ask the question this way. Certainly we're speaking essentially from two different parts of the world. When you hear, when you hear or see me speak, because you're you're able to read the transcriptions. I'm assuming it's pretty accurate. What is it like when you're speaking? Does the system that we're using here understand you well as in addition to understanding me? Mobeen Ansari  21:18 Well, yes, I think it does so like, you know, I just occasionally look down to see if it's catching up on everything. Yeah, on that note, I ought to try and improve my speech over time. I used to speak very fast. I used to mumble a lot, and so now I become more mindful of it, hopefully during covid. You know, during covid, a lot of podcasts started coming out, and I had my own actually, so I would, like brought myself back. I would look at this recording, and I would see what kind of mistakes I'm making. So I'm not sure if transcription pick up everything I'm saying, but I do try and improve myself, just like the next chapter of my life where I'm trying to improve my speech, my enunciation Michael Hingson  22:16 Well, and that's why I was was asking, it must be a great help to you to be able to look at your speaking through the eyes of the Translate. Well, not translation, but through the eyes of the speech program, so you're able to see what it's doing. And as you said, you can use it to practice. You can use it to improve your speech. Probably it is true that slowing down speech helps the system understand it better as well. Yeah, yeah. So that makes sense. Well, when you were growing up, your parents clearly were very supportive. Did they really encourage you to do whatever you wanted to do? Do they have any preconceived notions of what kind of work you should do when you grew up? Or do they really leave it to you and and say we're going to support you with whatever you do? Mobeen Ansari  23:21 Oh, they were supportive. And whatever I wanted to do, they were very supportive in what my brother had gone to do I had to enter brothers. So they were engineers. And you know what my my parents were always, always, you know, very encouraging of whatever period we wanted to follow. So I get the a lot of credit goes to my my parents, also, because they even put their very distinct fields. They actually had a great understanding of arts and photography, especially my dad, and that really helped me have conversations. You know, when I was younger to have a better understanding of art. You know, because my grandmother used to paint a lot, and because she did photography. When she migrated from India to Pakistan in 1947 she took, like, really, really powerful pictures. And I think that instilled a lot of this in me as well. I've had a great support that way. Michael Hingson  24:26 Yeah, so your grandmother helps as well. Mobeen Ansari  24:32 Oh yeah, oh yeah. She did very, very ahead of her time. She's very cool, and she made really large scale painting. So she was an example of always making the best of life, no matter where you are, no matter how old you are. She actually practiced a Kibana in the 80s. So that was pretty cool. So, you know. Yeah, she played a major part in my life. Michael Hingson  25:05 When did you start learning English? Because that I won't say it was a harder challenge for you. Was a different challenge, but clearly, I assume you learned originally Pakistani and so on. But how did you go about learning English? Mobeen Ansari  25:23 Oh, so I learned about the languages when I started speech. So I mean to be split the languages of Urdu. You are, be you. So I started learning about my mother tongue and English at the same time. You know, basically both languages at work to both ran in parallel, but other today, I have to speak a bit of Italian and a few other regional languages of Pakistan so and in my school. I don't know why, but we had French as a subject, but now I've completely forgotten French at Yeah, this kind of, it kind of helped a lot. It's pretty cool, very interesting. But yeah, I mean, I love to speak English. Just when I learned speech, what Michael Hingson  26:19 did you major in when you went to college? Mobeen Ansari  26:24 So I majored in painting. I went to National College of Arts, and I did my bachelor's in fine arts, and I did my majors in painting, and I did my minor in printmaking and sculpture. So my background was always rooted in fine arts. Photography was something that ran in parallel until I decided that photography was the ultimate medium that I absolutely love doing that became kind of the voice of my heart or a medium of oppression and tougher and bone today for Michael Hingson  27:11 did they even have a major in photography when you went to college? Mobeen Ansari  27:17 No, photography was something that I learned, you know, as a hobby, because I learned that during school, and I was self taught. One of my uncles is a globally renowned photographer. So he also taught me, you know, the art of lighting. He also taught me on how to interact with people, on how to set up appointments. He taught me so many things. So you could say that being a painter helped me become a better photographer. Being a photographer helped me become a better painter. So both went hand in hand report co existed. Yeah, so photography is something that I don't exactly have a degree in, but something that I learned because I'm more of an art photographer. I'm more of an artist than I am a photographer, Michael Hingson  28:17 okay, but you're using photography as kind of the main vehicle to display or project your art, absolutely. Mobeen Ansari  28:30 So what I try to do is I still try to incorporate painting into my photography, meaning I try to use the kind of lighting that you see in painting all of these subtle colors that Rembrandt of Caravaggio use, so I tried to sort of incorporate that. And anytime I press my photograph, I don't print it on paper, I print it on canvas. There's a paint really element to it, so so that my photo don't come up as a challenge, or just photos bottles or commercial in nature, but that they look like painting. And I think I have probably achieved that to a degree, because a lot of people asked me, Do you know, like, Okay, how much I did painting for and create painting. So I think you know, whatever my objective was, I think I'm probably just, you know, I'm getting there. Probably that's what my aim is. So you have a photography my main objective with the main voice that I use, and it has helped me tell stories of my homeland. It has helped me to tell stories of my life. It has helped me tell stories of people around Michael Hingson  29:49 me, but you're but what you do is as I understand you, you're, you may take pictures. You may capture the images. With a camera, but then you put them on canvas. Mobeen Ansari  30:05 Yeah, I just every time I have an exhibition or a display pictures which are present in my room right now, I always print them on Canvas, because when you print them on Canvas, the colors become more richer, right, Michael Hingson  30:22 more mentally. But what? But what you're doing, but what you're putting on Canvas are the pictures that you've taken with your camera. Mobeen Ansari  30:31 Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. But occasionally, occasionally, I tried to do something like I would print my photos on Canvas, and then I would try to paint on them. It's something that I've been experimenting with, but I'm not directly quite there yet. Conceptually, let's see in the future when these two things make properly. But now photographs? Michael Hingson  31:02 Yeah, it's a big challenge. I i can imagine that it would be a challenge to try to be able to print them on cameras and then canvas, and then do some painting, because it is two different media, but in a sense, but it will be interesting to see if you're able to be successful with that in the future. What would you say? It's easier today, though, to to print your pictures on Canvas, because you're able to do it from digital photographs, as opposed to what you must have needed to do, oh, 20 years ago and so on, where you had film and you had negatives and so on, and printing them like you do today was a whole different thing to do. Mobeen Ansari  31:50 Oh yeah, it's same to think good yesterday, somebody asked me if I do photography on an analog camera, and I have a lot of them, like lots and lots of them, I still have a lot of black and white film, but the problem is, nobody could develop them. I don't have that room. So otherwise I would do that very often. Otherwise I have a few functional cameras that tend to it. I'm consciously just thinking of reviving that. Let's see what happens to it. So I think it's become very difficult. You know also, because Pakistan has a small community of photographers, so the last person who everybody would go to for developing the film or making sure that the analog cameras became functional. He unfortunately passed away a few years ago, so I'm sort of trying to find somebody who can help me do this. It's a very fascinating process, but I haven't done any analog film camera photography for the last 15 years now, definitely a different ball game with, you know, typical cameras, yeah, the pattern, you could just take 36 pictures, and today you can just, you know, take 300 and do all sorts of trial and error. But I tried, you know, I think I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to photography, so I kind of try and make sure that I get the shots at the very first photograph, you know, because that's how my dad trained me on analog cameras, because back then, you couldn't see how the pictures are going to turn out until you printed them. So every time my dad took a picture, he would spend maybe two or three minutes on the setting, and he would really make the person in front of him wait a long time. And then you need to work on shutter speed or the aperture or the ISO, and once you would take that picture is perfect, no need to anything to it, Michael Hingson  34:09 but, but transposing it, but, but transferring it to from an analog picture back then to Canvas must have been a lot more of a challenge than it is today. Mobeen Ansari  34:24 No back then, working canvas printing. Canvas printing was something that I guess I just started discovering from 2014 onwards. So it would like during that this is laid up, Michael Hingson  34:38 but you were still able to do it because you just substituted Canvas for the the typical photographic paper that you normally would use is what I hear you say, Mobeen Ansari  34:50 Oh yeah, Canvas printing was something that I figured out much later on, right? Michael Hingson  34:59 Um. But you were still able to do it with some analog pictures until digital cameras really came into existence. Or did you always use it with a digital camera? Mobeen Ansari  35:11 So I basically, when I started off, I started with the handle camera. And obviously, you know, back in the 90s, if somebody asked you to take a picture, or we have to take a picture of something, you just had the analog camera at hand. Yeah. And my grandparents, my dad, they all had, you know, analog cameras. Some of it, I still have it Michael Hingson  35:36 with me, but were you able to do canvas painting from the analog cameras? No, yeah, that's what I was wondering. Mobeen Ansari  35:43 No, I haven't tried, yeah, but I think must have been possible, but I've only tried Canvas printing in the digital real. Michael Hingson  35:53 Do you are you finding other people do the same thing? Are there? Are there a number of people that do canvas painting? Mobeen Ansari  36:02 I lot of them do. I think it's not very common because it's very expensive to print it on canvas. Yeah, because you know, once you once you test again, but you don't know how it's going to turn out. A lot of images, they turn out very rough. The pictures trade, and if can, with print, expose to the camera, sometimes, sorry, the canvas print exposed to the sun, then there's the risk of a lot of fading that can happen. So there's a lot of risk involved. Obviously, printing is a lot better now. It can withstand exposure to heat and sun, but Canvas printing is not as common as you know, matte paper printing, non reflective, matte paper. Some photographers do. It depends on what kind of images you want to get out? Yeah, what's your budget is, and what kind of field you're hoping to get out of it. My aim is very specific, because I aim to make it very Painterly. That's my objective with the canvas. Michael Hingson  37:17 Yeah, you want them to look like paintings? Mobeen Ansari  37:21 Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, Michael Hingson  37:23 which, which? I understand it's, it is a fascinating thing. I hadn't really heard of the whole idea of canvas painting with photograph or photography before, but it sounds really fascinating to to have that Yeah, and it makes you a unique kind of person when you do that, but if it works, and you're able to make it work, that's really a pretty cool thing to do. So you have you you've done both painting and photography and well, and sculpting as well. What made you really decide, what was the turning point that made you decide to to go to photography is kind of your main way of capturing images. Mobeen Ansari  38:12 So it was with high school, because I was still studying, you know, art as a subject back then, but I was still consistently doing that. And then, like earlier, I mentioned to you that my school gave me an award called pictorial historian. That is what inspired me to follow this girl. That is what set me on this path. That is what made me find this whole purpose of capturing history. You know, Pakistan is home to a lot of rich cultures, rich landscapes, incredible heritage sites. And I think that's when I became fascinated. Because, you know, so many Pakistanis have these incredible stories of resilience entrepreneurship, and they have incredible faces, and, you know, so I guess that what made me want to capture it really. So I think, yeah, it was in high school, and then eventually in college, because, you know, port and school and college, I would be asked to take pictures of events. I'll be asked to take pictures of things around me. Where I went to college, it was surrounded by all kinds of, you know, old temples and churches and old houses and very old streets. So that, really, you know, always kept me inspired. So I get over time. I think it's just always been there in my heart. I decided to really, really go for it during college. Well. Michael Hingson  40:00 But you've, you've done pretty well with it. Needless to say, which is, which is really exciting and which is certainly very rewarding. Have you? Have you done any pictures that have really been famous, that that people regard as exceptionally well done? Mobeen Ansari  40:22 I Yes, obviously, that's it for the audience to decide. But right, I understand, yeah, I mean, but judging from my path exhibitions, and judging from system media, there have been quite a few, including the monitor out of just last week, I went to this abandoned railway station, which was on a British colonial time, abandoned now, but that became a very, very successful photograph. I was pretty surprised to see the feedback. But yes, in my career, they have been about, maybe about 10 to 15 picture that really, really stood out or transcended barriers. Because coming out is about transcending barriers. Art is about transcending barriers, whether it is cultural or political, anything right if a person entered a part of the world views a portrait that I've taken in Pakistan, and define the connection with the subject. My mission is accomplished, because that's what I would love to do through art, to connect the world through art, through art and in the absence of verbal communication. I would like for this to be a visual communication to show where I'm coming from, or the very interesting people that I beat. And that is that sort of what I do. So I guess you know, there have been some portraits. I've taken some landscapes or some heritage sites, and including the subjects that I have photography of my book that acting have probably stood out in mind of people. Michael Hingson  42:14 So you have published three books so far, right? Yes, but tell me about your books, if you would. Mobeen Ansari  42:24 So my first book is called Harkin. I will just hold it up for the camera. It is my first book, and what is it called? It is called turken, and the book is about iconic people of Pakistan who have impacted this history, be it philanthropist, be it sports people, be it people in music or in performing arts, or be it Even people who are sanitation workers or electricians to it's about people who who have impacted the country, whether they are famous or not, but who I consider to be icons. Some of them are really, really, really famous, very well known people around the world, you know, obviously based in Pakistan. So my book is about chronicling them. It's about documenting them. It's about celebrating them. My second book without, okay, most Michael Hingson  43:29 people are going to listen to the podcast anyway, but go ahead. Yeah. Mobeen Ansari  43:35 So basically it's writing the flag is about the religious minorities of Pakistan, because, you know, Pakistan is largely a Muslim country. But when people around the world, they look at Pakistan, they don't realize that it's a multicultural society. There's so many religions. Pakistan is home to a lot of ancient civilizations, a lot of religions that are there. And so this book document life and festivities of religious minorities of Pakistan. You know, like I in my childhood, have actually attended Easter mass, Christmas and all of these festivities, because my father's best friend was a Christian. So we had that exposure to, you know, different faiths, how people practice them. So I wanted to document that. That's my second book. Michael Hingson  44:39 It's wonderful that you had, it's wonderful that you had parents that were willing to not only experience but share experiences with you about different cultures, different people, so that it gave you a broader view of society, which is really cool. Mobeen Ansari  44:58 Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. So your third book? So my third book is a sequel to my first one, same topic, people who have impacted the country. And you know, with the Pakistan has a huge, huge population, it had no shortage of heroes and heroines and people who have created history in the country. So my first book has 98 people, obviously, which is not enough to feature everybody. So my second book, it features 115 people. So it features people who are not in the first book. Michael Hingson  45:41 Your third book? Yeah, okay, yeah. Well, there's, you know, I appreciate that there's a very rich culture, and I'm really glad that you're, you're making Chronicles or or records of all of that. Is there a fourth book coming? Have you started working on a fourth book yet? Mobeen Ansari  46:05 You know in fact, yes, there is. Whenever people hear about my book, they assume that there's going to be landscape or portraits or street photography or something that is more anthropological in nature. That's the photography I truly enjoy doing. These are the photographs that are displayed in my studio right now. So, but I would never really study for it, because Pakistan had, you know, we have poor provinces. And when I started these books, I hadn't really documented everything. You know, I come from the urban city, and, you know, I just, just only take taking pictures in main cities at that time. But now I have taken pictures everywhere. I've been literally to every nook and cranny in the country. So now I have a better understanding, a better visual representation. So a fourth book, it may be down the line, maybe five years, 10 years, I don't know yet. Michael Hingson  47:13 Well, one thing that I know you're interested in, that you've, you've at least thought about, is the whole idea behind climate change and the environment. And I know you've done some work to travel and document climate change and the environment and so on. Tell us, tell us more about that and where that might be going. Mobeen Ansari  47:36 So on tape, note, Michael, you know there's a lot of flooding going on in Pakistan. You know, in just one day, almost 314 people died, but many others you had missing. You had some of the worst flooding test time round. And to be reeling from that, and we had some major flooding some teachers back in. Well, climate change is no longer a wake up call. We had to take action years ago, if not, you know, yesterday and till right now, we are seeing effects of it. And you know, Pakistan has a lot of high mountain peaks. It has, it is home to the second highest mountain in the world, Ketu, and it has a lot of glaciers. You know, people talk about melting polar ice caps. People talk about effects of climate change around the world, but I think it had to be seen everywhere. So in Pakistan, especially, climate change is really, really rearing space. So I have traveled to the north to capture melting glacier, to capture stories of how it affects different communities, the water supply and the agriculture. So that is what I'm trying to do. And if I take pictures of a desert down south where a sand dune is spreading over agricultural land that it wasn't doing up until seven months ago. So you know climate change is it's everywhere. Right now, we are experiencing rains every day. It's been the longest monsoon. So it has also affected the way of life. It has also affected ancient heritage sites. Some of these heritage sites, which are over 3000 years old, and they have bestowed, you know, so much, but they are not able to withstand what we are facing right now. Um, and unfortunately, you know, with unregulated construction, with carbon emissions here and around the world, where deforestation, I felt that there was a strong need to document these places, to bring awareness of what is happening to bring awareness to what we would lose if we don't look after mother nature, that the work I have been doing on climate change, as well as topics of global health and migration, so those two topics are also very close To My Heart. Michael Hingson  50:40 Have you done any traveling outside Pakistan? Mobeen Ansari  50:45 Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been traveling abroad since I was very little. I have exhibited in Italy, in the United States. I was just in the US debris. My brother lives in Dallas, so, yeah, I keep traveling because, because my workshop, because of my book events, or my exhibition, usually here and around the world. Michael Hingson  51:14 Have you done any photography work here in the United States? Mobeen Ansari  51:19 Yeah, I have, I mean, in the US, I just don't directly do photography, but I do workshop, because whatever tool that I captured from Pakistan, I do it there. Okay, funny thing is, a funny thing is that, you know, when you take so many pictures in Pakistan, you become so used to rustic beauty and a very specific kind of beauty that you have a hard time capturing what's outside. But I've always, always just enjoyed taking pictures in in Mexico and Netherlands, in Italy, in India, because they that rustic beauty. But for the first time, you know, I actually spent some time on photography. This year, I went to Chicago, and I was able to take pictures of Chicago landscape, Chicago cityscape, completely. You know, Snowden, that was a pretty cool kind of palette to work with. Got to take some night pictures with everything Snowden, traveling Chicago, downtown. So yeah, sometimes I do photography in the US, but I'm mostly there to do workshops or exhibitions or meet my brothers. Michael Hingson  52:34 What is your your work process? In other words, how do you decide what ideas for you are worthwhile pursuing and and recording and chronicling. Mobeen Ansari  52:46 So I think it depends on where their story, where there is a lot of uniqueness, that is what stands out to me, and obviously beauty there. But they have to be there. They have to be some uniqueness, you know, like, if you look at one of the pictures behind me, this is a person who used to run a library that had been there since 1933 his father, he had this really, really cool library. And you know, to that guy would always maintain it, that library would have, you know, three old books, you know, a philosophy of religion, of theology, and there was even a handwritten, 600 years old copy of the Quran with his religious book for Muslims. So, you know, I found these stories very interesting. So I found it interesting because he was so passionate about literature, and his library was pretty cool. So that's something that you don't get to see. So I love seeing where there is a soul, where there is a connection. I love taking pictures of indigenous communities, and obviously, you know, landscapes as well. Okay? Also, you know, when it comes to climate change, when it comes to migration, when it comes to global health, that's what I take picture to raise awareness. Michael Hingson  54:33 Yeah, and your job is to raise awareness. Mobeen Ansari  54:41 So that's what I try to do, if I'm well informed about it, or if I feel that is something that needed a light to be shown on it, that's what I do. Took my photograph, and also, you know. Whatever had this appeal, whatever has a beauty, whatever has a story that's in spur of the moment. Sometimes it determined beforehand, like this year, particularly, it particularly helped me understand how to pick my subject. Even though I've been doing this for 22 years, this year, I did not do as much photography as I normally do, and I'm very, very picky about it. Like last week I went to this abandoned railway station. I decided to capture it because it's very fascinating. It's no longer used, but the local residents of that area, they still use it. And if you look at it, it kind of almost looks like it's almost science fiction film. So, you know, I'm a big star. Was that Big Star Trek fan? So, yes, I'm in port the camps. So I also like something that had these elements of fantasy to it. So my work, it can be all over the place, sometimes, Michael Hingson  56:09 well, as a as a speaker, it's, it's clearly very important to you to share your own personal journey and your own experiences. Why is that? Why do you want to share what you do with others? Mobeen Ansari  56:28 So earlier, I mentioned to you that John Tracy center played a major, major role in my life. He helped my mother. They provided all the materials. You know, in late 80s, early 90s, and so I will tell you what happened. So my aunt, my mom's sister, she used to live in the US, and when my hearing loss were diagnosed, my mother jumped right into action. I mean, both my parents did. So my mother, she landed in New York, and to my aunt would live in New Jersey. So every day she would go to New York, and she landed in New York League of hard of hearing. And a lady over there asked my mom, do you want your child to speak, or do you want him to learn? Frank Lacher and my mother, without any hesitation, she said, I want my child to speak and to see what put in touch with John Troy center and rest with history, and they provided with everything that needed. So I am affiliated with the center as an alumni. And whenever I'm with the US, whenever I'm in LA, I visit the center to see how I can support parents of those with hearing loss, and I remember when I went in 2016 2018 I gave a little talk to the parents of those with hair in glass. And I got to two other place as well, where I spent my childhood joint. Every time I went there, I saw the same fears. I saw the same determination in parents of those with hearing loss, as I saw in my parents eyes. And by the end of my talk, they came up to me, and they would tell me, you know, that sharing my experiences helped them. It motivated them. It helped them not be discouraged, because having a child hearing loss is not easy. And you know, like there was this lady from Ecuador, and you know, she spoke in Spanish, and she see other translators, you know, tell me this, so to be able to reach out with those stories, to be able to provide encouragement and any little guidance, or whatever little knowledge I have from my experience, it gave me this purpose. And a lot of people, I think, you know, you feel less lonely in this you feel hurt, you feel seen. And when you share experiences, then you have sort of a blueprint how you want to navigate in one small thing can help the other person. That's fantastic. That's why I share my personal experiences, not just to help those with hearing loss, but with any challenge. Because you know when you. Have a challenge when you have, you know, when a person is differently able, so it's a whole community in itself. You know, we lift each other up, and if one story can help do that, because, you know, like for me, my parents told me, never let your hearing loss be seen as a disability. Never let it be seen as a weakness, but let it be seen as a challenge that makes you stronger and that will aspire to do be it when I get it lost all of my life, be it when I had the latest or many years, or anything. So I want to be able to become stronger from to share my experiences with it. And that is why I feel it's important to share the story. Michael Hingson  1:00:56 And I think that's absolutely appropriate, and that's absolutely right. Do you have a family of your own? Are you married? Do you have any children or anything? Not yet. Not yet. You're still working on that, huh? Mobeen Ansari  1:01:10 Well, so to say, Yeah, I've just been married to my work for way too long. Michael Hingson  1:01:16 Oh, there you are. There's nothing wrong with that. You've got something that you Mobeen Ansari  1:01:22 kind of get batting after a while, yeah. Michael Hingson  1:01:26 Well, if the time, if the right person comes along, then it, then that will happen. But meanwhile, you're, you're doing a lot of good work, and I really appreciate it. And I hope everyone who listens and watches this podcast appreciates it as well. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Mobeen Ansari  1:01:45 They can send me an email, which is out there for everybody on my website. I'm on all my social media as well. My email is being.ansarima.com Michael Hingson  1:01:57 so can you spell that? Can you Yeah, M, o b e n, dot a do it once more, M O B, E N, Mobeen Ansari  1:02:07 M O B, double, e n, dot, a n, S, A R, i@gmail.com Michael Hingson  1:02:17 at gmail.com, okay, and your website is.com Mobeen Ansari  1:02:26 same as my name. Michael Hingson  1:02:27 So, okay, so it's mo bean.ansari@our.www.mo Michael Hingson  1:02:35 bean dot Ansari, or just mo Bean on, sorry, Mobeen Ansari  1:02:41 just moving on, sorry. We com, no.no. Michael Hingson  1:02:44 Dot between mobien and Ansari, okay, so it's www, dot mobile being on sorry, yeah, so it's www, dot, M, O, B, E, N, A, N, S, A, R, i.com Yes. Well, great. I have absolutely enjoyed you being with us today. I really appreciate your time and your insights, and I value a lot what you do. I think you represent so many things so well. So thank you for being here with us, and I want to thank all of you who are out there listening and watching the podcast today, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please email me at Michael H, i@accessibe.com that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and we appreciate it if you would give us a five star rating wherever you are observing the podcast. Please do that. We value that a great deal. And if you know anyone else who ought to be a guest, please let me know. We're always looking for people and mobeen you as well. If you know anyone else who you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, I would appreciate it if you would introduce us. But for now, I just want to thank you one more time for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you for being on the podcast with us today. Mobeen Ansari  1:04:08 Thank you so much. It's been wonderful, and thank you for giving me the platform to share my stories. And I hope that it helps whoever watching this. Up to date. Michael Hingson  1:04:26 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Global IT spending is projected to reach its highest level in 30 years, driven primarily by investments in artificial intelligence (AI) and cloud services. According to a report from the International Data Corporation, spending on hardware, software, and IT services is expected to rise by 14%, marking the fastest growth rate since 1996. However, the benefits of this spending surge are not being realized by Managed Service Providers (MSPs), as hyperscalers dominate the market by building extensive AI infrastructure and integrated platforms. This shift in control raises questions about the future value proposition for MSPs, who may find themselves increasingly marginalized.Small businesses are experiencing hiring challenges despite a reported increase in job growth plans. The National Federation of Independent Business Jobs report indicates that 33% of small business owners have unfilled job openings, with 19% planning to create new jobs in the next three months. However, 56% of these businesses attempted to hire in November, with half citing a lack of suitable candidates. Compounding this issue, federal statistical agencies are facing significant staffing and budget cuts, leading to a decline in the availability of reliable economic data. This erosion of data could hinder small businesses' ability to make informed hiring and investment decisions.In a notable leadership change, Jim Siders has been appointed CEO of Shield Technology Partners, an IT services platform focused on integrating AI with operational expertise. Siders aims to enhance service delivery through AI innovations, positioning Shield as a vital resource for businesses in sectors like construction and healthcare. This move reflects a broader trend of IT services being restructured as AI-driven platforms rather than traditional roll-ups, emphasizing the importance of operational discipline and clean data in leveraging AI effectively.The episode highlights a concerning trend in corporate spending on AI, where companies allocate 93% of their budgets to technology and only 7% to the people who will utilize it. This imbalance can lead to a decline in trust among employees and an increase in the use of unapproved AI tools, complicating compliance and operational efficiency. For MSPs and IT service leaders, the key takeaway is the necessity to shift focus from merely adopting technology to fostering a disciplined approach to AI integration, emphasizing governance, workflow redesign, and clear decision-making boundaries to ensure that clients can navigate the complexities of AI effectively. Four things to know today00:00 Global IT Spending Hits 30-Year High as AI and Cloud Investments Accelerate, IDC Reports05:24 Small Businesses Plan More Hiring but Still Can't Find Qualified Workers, NFIB Reports08:33 Shield Names Former Palantir CIO Jim Siders CEO as It Builds an AI-First IT Services Platform With OpenAI and Thrive11:19 Deloitte: Lopsided AI Spending, Declining Trust, and Shadow AI Signal a Growing Management Failure This is the Business of Tech.     Supported by:  https://saasalerts.com/mspradio/

Project 2025 begins not with a candidate, but with a playbook. According to the Heritage Foundation, it is a “Presidential Transition Project” designed to prepare a future conservative administration to, in its words, “take back our government” on day one. Its core text, a nearly 900-page volume titled Mandate for Leadership, lays out a sweeping plan to reshape the federal government agency by agency, from the Justice Department to the Department of Education, and to concentrate power more directly in the presidency.At the heart of the project is personnel. Heritage leaders say their goal is to recruit and train thousands of conservatives ready to serve, insisting that “personnel is policy.” They openly advocate reviving a job category known as Schedule F, which would reclassify tens of thousands of civil servants as political appointees, making it easier to fire career officials and replace them with loyalists. The National Federation of Federal Employees warns this could “destroy the administrative state” by stripping protections from nonpartisan experts and giving a president “full control of the Executive Branch for personal and political gain.”The blueprint also calls for dramatic changes to federal agencies. Project 2025's Mandate for Leadership proposes dismantling the Department of Education entirely, shifting its programs to other departments and leaving states in charge of most education policy. It recommends abolishing the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and even the Federal Trade Commission, arguing that such regulators have become hostile to business. According to the ACLU's analysis of Project 2025, the plan would curb the independence of the Justice Department and FBI so that both are “directly accountable to the president,” a move that critics say could erode the traditional firewall between law enforcement and politics.On policy, the document pushes for deep cuts to Medicaid, reductions in Medicare, and lower corporate taxes, alongside rolling back environmental regulations to favor fossil fuel production, as summarized by reporting on Project 2025 in major national outlets and by policy watchdog groups. Supporters describe this as unleashing growth and restoring constitutional limits. Opponents, including Democracy Forward and the Center for Progressive Reform, argue the agenda would weaken worker protections, civil rights enforcement, and climate policy, while concentrating power in ways that test constitutional norms.As the 2024 campaign season unfolded, references to Project 2025 became a proxy fight over the future of American governance. Heritage insists it is simply offering a roadmap should a conservative win the White House. Legal scholars, meanwhile, are already gaming out court battles over any attempt to purge civil servants or dismantle long-standing agencies without congressional approval.The next milestones will hinge on who controls the presidency and Congress, and how much of this vision they are willing and able to enact. For now, Project 2025 remains a blueprint—but one detailed enough that listeners can see the outlines of a very different federal government if it ever moves from paper to practice.Thanks for tuning in, and come back next week for more.Some great Deals https://amzn.to/49SJ3QsFor more check out http://www.quietplease.aiThis content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

What if success was less about status and more about gratitude, service, and love? In this Unstoppable Mindset conversation, I talk with strategist and social media influencer Cynthia Washington about climbing and then stepping away from the corporate ladder, choosing a “socio economic experiment” that stripped life back to the basics, and discovering what really matters. You'll hear how growing up in Pasadena, studying at Cal Poly Pomona and Columbia Business School, and working with brands like Enterprise and Zions Bank all led Cynthia to a life centered on emotional intelligence, mentoring young women in tech, and leading with heart. I believe you'll come away seeing gratitude, leadership, and your own potential to be unstoppable in a very different light. Highlights: 00:09 – Explore how early life experiences influence the values that guide personal and professional growth.02:59 – Learn how changing direction can uncover the strengths that shape long-term leadership.05:29 – See how pivotal transitions help define a clearer sense of purpose.10:07 – Discover what stepping away from convention reveals about identity and success.20:05 – Reflect on how redefining success can shift your entire approach to work and life.22:13 – Learn how a grounded mindset practice strengthens resilience and clarity.34:25 – Explore how personal evolution can grow into a mission to empower the next generation.59:11 – Gain a new perspective on how we perceive ability, inclusion, and human potential. About the Guest: Cynthia Washington: Bridging Societal Gaps Through Leadership, Influence, and Love Cynthia Washington is an accomplished business professional, an award-winning leader, and international influencer whose life and career embodies resilience, vision, and compassion.  While studying at Columbia University, she embarked on a socio-economic experiment, which became her reality, highlighting her journey across her social media platforms in hope of sharing her deep commitment to bridge societal gaps and create a better world—one love style, one courageous step at a time.  A proud Park City local of more than twenty years, Cynthia's story begins in Southern California, where she grew up between the San Gabriel Mountains and the beaches of Malibu.  Her cousins called her “Malibu Barbie,” and her stepbrother called her “Love.”  Rooted in her values and guided by her heart, Cynthia's story is not only one of success but of transformation—a legacy driven by her belief that we deserve better. Cynthia leads with integrity and authenticity. She continues to expand her global network of leadership, uniting hearts and minds to inspire lasting, positive change on the right side of history with a framework of faith, family and fun that is built on a foundation of love, kindness, compassion and a hope for peace. One Love, Bob Marley style. Professionally, Cynthia Washington stands at the intersection of strategy, leadership, and emotional intelligence. An agile and results-driven leader, she has distinguished herself through her ability to combine quantitative intuition with deep empathy—qualities that make her both a visionary and a unifier. Known for her collaborative leadership style, she excels in developing teams, leading organizational change, and driving sales performance across diverse industries. Her strategic mindset and exceptional communication skills have made her a trusted partner to executives and innovators alike. Cynthia's work fosters meaningful engagement between employees and senior leaders, helping organizations align vision with values. Through her global portfolio of projects, she has sharpened her expertise in marketing, leadership development, and brand transformation, helping companies from Park City to Silicon Slopes and across international markets thrive. Her career is a testament to excellence, purpose, and adaptability—qualities that have earned her numerous accolades and the respect of peers worldwide. Among her many achievements, Cynthia was honored as a SheTech Champion Impact Award Recipient at the Women Tech Awards, celebrating her leadership, mentorship, and dedication to empowering young women in technology. For more than five years, she has stood alongside thousands of high school students—mentoring, volunteering, and serving as a role model for the next generation of innovators. Motivated by her desire to create a better world for her daughter, she embarked on what she lovingly calls her “mom mission”—a service journey dedicated to making her community and the world around her better. During her sabbatical from Silicon Valley into this transformative period, Cynthia launched LVL UP with CW, her brand, leveraging her expertise to help local and global businesses grow, evolve, and thrive. As an international social media influencer, she has used her platform not for fame or recognition, but for global impact, sharing messages of resilience, hope, and empowerment. This work is a lesson of intersectionality and bridges the worlds of fashion, sports, philanthropy, business, money, technology, spirituality, global preservation, health and wellness in hopes of leveling up and shifting the societal norms. She has partnered with brands across industries to elevate visibility, deepen engagement, and build authentic customer connections. Through brand ambassador relationships, social media management, and content creation, Cynthia has amplified voices, strengthened communities, and showcased how influence, when rooted in integrity, is a force for good. That same belief shines through in Cynthia Washington's powerful memoir, Mind Matters: The Story of My Life. Written during her sabbatical, the respectfully honest memoir captures her life's “grind with grit” story. The cover, graced by her daughter's original artwork, wraps her book with a big thank you hug, encapsulating the power of love that anchors Cynthia's bold voyage.  Mind Matters explores her corporate climb and fall, her studies at Columbia University, her travels across the United States with her daughter, the Aloha spirit of Hawaii, and her experiences in Hollywood and the music industry. Interwoven through these chapters are stories of friendship, including her personal connections with cultural icons like Eminem and Kobe Bryant, whose wisdom and creativity shaped what Cynthia calls The Trifecta - a guiding philosophy built on Kobe's Mamba Mentality, the music of Eminem, and her own life's work. Three forces that together drive her vision and her ability to live her socio-economic experiment proving money is a tool and the real power is in the mind. “You can do anything you set your mind to, man” - Eminem Mind Matters: The Story of My Life is available on Amazon and other major online retailers and can also be ordered through local bookstores. The memoir has been nominated for The Eric Hoffer Award for Excellence in Independent Publishing, a recognition of both its literary merit and its heartfelt message of perseverance. Yet, true to her character, Cynthia did not embark on this journey for fame or recognition—she wrote it to give back, to inspire, and to remind readers everywhere that no matter where you come from, with a healthy positive mindset you too can change the trajectory of your life. Beyond her work as an author and international leader, Cynthia lives a simple life.  She is a mom, a trailblazer, and an advocate, representing many initiatives that level up society and bridge societal gaps. She turned her pain into her strength and used that as fuel to ignite a movement.  Her heart is full of gratitude for all the bands and their aid, as they played a meaningful role in inspiring the Band Aid, a global movement for unity and peace that emerged during a time when the world needed hope most. A true Band Aid. Ways to connect with Cynthia**:** Instagram https://www.instagram.com/misscdub Linkedin  https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-washington-1b13a265 Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Matters-Story-My-Life/dp/B0DJRPQTY2 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're with us today, wherever you happen to be, hope you're having a good day, and hope that we can inspire you and make this a fun time for you as well. Our guest today is Cynthia Washington. Cynthia describes herself as standing at the intersection of strategy, leadership and an emotional intelligence, and I know that she's going to talk more about that and what what brought her to come to that conclusion, but I've been looking at her information. I think she's got a lot of interesting stuff to talk to us about, and we'll get to it. But for now, Cynthia, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Cynthia Washington  02:05 Oh, thank you, Michael. I appreciate being here and spending this time with you today, and I'm looking forward to our conversation. Michael Hingson  02:13 Well, I am as well. Well, why don't we start? I love to start this way with the the early Cynthia, if you will. Cynthia Washington  02:20 Of course, yes, the early Cynthia. I grew up in Pasadena, California, that Southern California, near the Rose Bowl in the San Gabriel Mountains. I attended an all girls private Catholic school for my seventh to 12th grades. I attended also Cal Poly Pomona, where I studied international business and marketing. And I love everything Southern California. I've always had this dream of living in Park City, and I ended up coming here in when was it 2004 so I've been here almost 21 years. Michael Hingson  03:04 So when you were at Cal Poly, did you help build the Rose Parade Float? Cynthia Washington  03:09 I did not build the Rose Parade Float, even though both Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and Cal Poly Pomona do a collaborative effort to build one every year since I grew up with the Rose Parade in my backyard, I had my own special moments with that. I always wanted to be on the Rose Parade court, and so my mom put me into a many different pageants, which helped prepare me and built my confidence so that I could be the person I am today. And I'm forever grateful for that experience like sports, it teaches you about competition, failure and set you up for success. Michael Hingson  04:05 Yes. And again, what did you study at Cal Poly, Cynthia Washington  04:10 international business and marketing? Okay, I originally started in microbiology. I had finished with the intention to become a doctor, and realized I could not stomach blood or needles, and so I quickly changed my major once I made that realization, and I changed my major to English, because I love reading Shakespeare Books. Everything is just so fascinating, fascinating about the English language and its literature. So I studied that for a little while, my father told me that I needed to do something different, and therefore I changed my major to international business and marketing. Michael Hingson  05:00 Hmm, that was different than English by any standard. Yeah. Cynthia Washington  05:06 So it was definitely different. Well, he is a businessman, a banker, and I think you know, for him, it was important for me to kind of follow in those footsteps, which I have, ironically, and I'm forever grateful for him for pushing me in a different direction, I use all three though, the science, the technology, the English and the international business skills in my current role, so, or roles, Michael Hingson  05:37 well, so you graduated. Did you go on and get any advanced degrees or just a bachelor's? Cynthia Washington  05:43 Oh, well, I did. It took me a while, too, though. I recently, in 2022 applied to Columbia University, actually Columbia Business School, and I completed their chief marketing officer executive education program with a Certificate in Business Excellence from Columbia Business School. So yes, I did eventually go back to school. However, I had a few careers in and amongst that along my path and my journey, which helped me have a more well rounded knowledge, yeah, to enter into that up advanced learning. Michael Hingson  06:35 So what did you do after you graduated from Cal Poly? Cynthia Washington  06:40 After I graduated from Cal Poly, I took a gap year, to be honest, and in that gap year, I learned so much about myself. I intersected with Hollywood for a brief moment in time, developed some really great, lasting friendships that have surpassed time. In addition to that, I skied, I snowboard, I learned to surf, and did all the things that I just needed to do as a California girl, yes, it was quite fun and bolted me into the person I am today. With that being said, I once again, had my father reminding me that it was time to get a job, and so I ventured into the management trainee program with enterprise run a car, climbed that corporate ladder, eventually having a territory from Santa Barbara to San Diego that I managed and oversaw a team inside one of our insurance partners headquarters, Which was really amazing opportunity. Then that took me, with a relocation package to Utah with my husband and our newborn baby to come and plant roots. Here he they enterprise was ahead of times in the fact that they wanted to harvest talent from different parts of the United States to strengthen the team they were building in Utah. My husband and I at the time, were part of that strategy, which was really an amazing opportunity, because I was one of a handful women managers that were brought on to the Utah team, and we were able to establish ourselves as influencers and leaders to help grow the women leadership network within Utah and Idaho for enterprise. Michael Hingson  09:14 You said, early I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. You said early on that you always wanted to go to Park City. Why was that? Sounds like, you know, you got to live your dream. But why was that? Yes. Cynthia Washington  09:26 Well, my father worked a lot, and for him to disconnect from work, we would come and visit Park City or travel to Hawaii. Well, we summer it every summer in Kauai for the month of July. So to contrast that we had time in Park City, Utah before it was what it has become, which was really fascinating. And I loved having the exposure to the Four Seasons and just the. Um, simple life that park city offered was really refreshing, coming from the hustle and bustle of Downtown LA and being in the city, it was just something I dreamt of, and I'm so grateful to have lived that dream, to be here and have to and to have raised my daughter here as well Michael Hingson  10:27 makes sense. And as I said, you now get to live your dream. You're living where you wanted to, and you've been there now for, like, 21 years, and you sound like you haven't changed your mind, you're very happy with it. Cynthia Washington  10:43 Yes, you know, my daughter's graduating college soon, and perhaps maybe I'll think of another location to move to. But for now, this is what I call home. This is where I've planted my my seeds and my roots for our little single mom family. So yeah, it's been great. Michael Hingson  11:06 Well, so you you say that you lived a social, socio economic experiment. Tell me more about what that means. Yes. Cynthia Washington  11:19 So while at Columbia University, I opted to live a socio economic experience to contrast the life that I grew up with. So as I mentioned, I attended Cal Poly, worked with enterprise, had a great career with them. When I came to Utah, I kept that career. After my divorce, I began another career at America first credit union. I saw, I saw that I needed to take a step back from the career world, and so I took a 20 hour teller position as I was figuring out my relationship with my husband and determining our next steps. And so once that was dissolved, I had this great team who saw my leadership skills and helped me climb another corporate ladder. After a few years one of my previous colleagues came to me and asked me to venture into Silicon Valley, doing business in Utah with a team, a Medicare sales team that I managed, and that was quite fascinating, talk about baptism by fire. I learned all things Medicare on the fly, and had a really amazing opportunity with that. And so I have steadily over time, climbed three different corporate ladders, made excellent income, six figures, generously raising my daughter here in Utah, and it has always been in the back of my mind to understand life from a different lens, to understand it with a different perspective. And so as a result, when I was in the Columbia application process, I had become really, really, really sick, deathly sick, I like to say I was on my death bed when I applied to Colombia because I was surviving on water and pressed juices for a little over a month, because I was having some difficulties internally. And so while I had that downtime, I had a lot of time to think, and it was important to me to apply at Columbia. Well, I originally applied to Northwestern and they recommended me to Columbia. And so when I did my Columbia application, it was important for me not to just take the northwestern recommendation, but to also set myself apart. And I thought, well, the socio economic experiment would be great at something I've been thinking about, you know, living life through a different lens. I had the savings built up so that I could do so. And I thought, Yes, I can do this. I can You can do anything you set your mind to. Quote. Eminem, I did. I did that. I lived it. I abandoned my ego, I abandoned all the luxurious items that I had, and lived this truly simple life. And it was quite fascinating, because the more I trusted that process, the more I grew and became still and trusted God's guidance in this journey that I was creating. Fast forward through the social media aspect of everything, I was reminded of some Hollywood friends that I had forgotten about, to be honest. And I don't know how you forget about them, but I did, because I never really spoke about those tender moments I had, and cherish them within my heart and my soul. But I was overcoming this really traumatic experience, a bad, bad relationship that put me into hiding, yet with being at Columbia, living the socio economic experiment and sharing my life through my social media influencer role, my Hollywood friends found me in a time of need, and through this reintroduction, I was reminded of a night I like to coin as dream night, and I call it dream night because that's the night I met Marshall Mathers, who the world knows as Eminem, and he and I were from completely different aspects of life, with completely different perspectives on life, and yet, when we met, we intersected. I was leaving Hollywood, he was coming into it, and we spent together, as silly as it sounds, playing beer pong, thinking through all of the world's problems. And in that conversation, I had mentioned that one day I was going to go to Columbia, and one day I was going to live the socio economic experiment so that I could help the world. And you know, he envisioned his dream of becoming this rap star, and together, we would reunite our forces for good to help elevate the world. And I forgot about this moment in time, to be quite honest, I just continued on a path that I naturally was creating when I was younger, because before meeting Marshall, I had met Kobe Bryant while I was a student graduating Cal Poly, and he was new, upcoming rising superstar into basketball. He had his eye on Vanessa. Her group of friends were very smart, and he knew he needed to knowledge up to get his girl. And so here I was this book smart girl, kind of hanging out in Hollywood. I had worked a job at Staples Center, because I love the Lakers, and it was really cool. I, you know, had me more court side than it did have me working because I gave away more of my tables, and I did actually work to spend time building these relationships with Kobe and the Lakers, which I'm so forever grateful for, and because Kobe recognized my book smart, his spotlight and together, we would have these Kobe talks, which ultimately built the framework for Mama mentality and my only ask of him as I exited Hollywood and that era of my life was that he named mob and mentality, mob and mentality, which he did. And so I, you know, I had. Had Mamba mentality. This up and comer rap star Eminem, who, honestly, I didn't even know was Eminem. For me, he was this guy from Detroit that I met through my friend Travis Barker, who happened to be the drummer blink, 182 but I was so unaware of all these people and who they were. They were, to me, were just people I knew and friends that I had. And, you know, fast forward to where we're at now. It's like we're all living our dreams, and it's really super cool. But the socio economic experiment came from that dream night with Marshall and this whole concept of who and how we wanted to be in this future version of ourselves and I wanted to be this socio economic experiment to understand life through a different lens, especially after meeting him that One night and hearing his life experience, my life experience that you know, it was fascinating to me, like I want, I I want to help people, but to truly help people and bridge those societal gaps that exist, Cynthia Washington  21:16 one has To have a full scope of life through all perspectives, and this opportunity through Columbia, with this experiment, positioned me to really embrace that, and now I am very happy because I think it has helped me appreciate the quality, true quality of life. You know, it's not about the money, it's not about the fame, it's not about the recognition. It's about love and family and caring and nurturing one another Michael Hingson  21:59 with and I would presume that you would say that that's what you learned from the experiment, Cynthia Washington  22:05 yes, yes, absolutely. That's what I learned. You know, here, as I was climbing all these different corporate ladders, I always thought it was about having more you know, having more money, having more things, having a bigger house, a nicer car and all this stuff, but truly abandoning all that stuff allowed me to live more because I appreciated the true moment as A gift, especially from being on my deathbed, you know, to being able to live each day to its fullest, that in and amongst itself, was a gift to me, and learning to be present for my daughter was a present for Me. And so these were all things that socio economic experiment taught me about appreciating life. Michael Hingson  23:07 So where do concepts like gratitude come into all of that? And how is gratitude help keep you centered and kind of moving forward? Cynthia Washington  23:18 Great question through this journey I've been on, I've learned to live each day with a grateful heart. I wake up daily appreciative of the moment, to be alive, regardless of what I have or what accomplishments I've achieved. I truly am thankful for the gift of life. And with that being said, I live in a spirit of Thanksgiving, not because Thanksgiving is on the horizon and the holidays grow near, but because having that gratitude rooted in my soul has helped me Stay focused on my Why stay firm in my beliefs and trust the process every step of the way, living with gratitude has just opened my Heart to the possibilities, and it's been a phenomenal growth experience. The more I give thanks, the more I give, the more I serve, the better I lead, the stronger I am, and the more abundant the blessings are. Are, and it's just truly remarkable to be this vessel for good living life with the spirit of Thanksgiving. Michael Hingson  25:12 If somebody were to ask you, how can you teach me how to really have gratitude and make it a part of my life, what? What kind of advice or what kind of guidance can you give someone to help them learn to be a person who's more grateful or have more gratitude? Wow, um, Cynthia Washington  25:33 if someone is looking to have more gratitude and develops a process in establishing more gratitude. I think it would just be to reframe your focus instead of, oh, I don't have these things, right? That's when I let go of my Louis vuittons my fancy car, and, you know, sold all my really nice clothes that you know, just to have some extra cash to accomplish more of my goals, I let go of all Those materialistic things. And instead of having the mindset of like, Oh, I'm getting rid of these things, I was I saw it as an opportunity. So I guess what I'm saying is to reframe, instead of it being like, I don't have these things, or the woe is me attitude reframe that too. I am blessed with a family, I am blessed with food, I am blessed with shelter, I am blessed with a job that provides me with stability. I am blessed with the person in the mirror who has awoken for this moment in time, awoken, awaked it has. How do you say that? Awakened, that's fine. Awakened, yeah, has awakened in this moment, you know, for another beautiful day, and then after that, reframing of the mindset, focus on the positives and count your blessings. I know that sounds so cliche, but be grateful for this. Yes, be grateful for the things that you do have, the people who love you love is the most durable power that there is, you know, and having that focus on those good things with a positive mindset reframed from the negative, you can easily shape yourself into a person who lives with gratitude and then reciprocate it. You know, as you, as you go about your day, give that gratitude to someone else with a nice smile or a thank you. And people can feel a thank you. People can feel a smile. People can feel that authentic, genuine sense of gratitude in any capacity of life. And that is far more reaching than that negative I don't have I don't have enough. I don't I'm not qualified for this type of negative mindset that weighs people down. Instead, when you live with gratitude, you feel lighter, you feel more alive, and you feel unstoppable. Michael Hingson  29:09 Have you ever read a book by a gentleman named Henry Drummond called Love the greatest thing in the world? Cynthia Washington  29:18 No, but it sounds like something I would enjoy reading. It's Michael Hingson  29:21 more, it's very short, but he he talks all about the fact that love is, in fact, the greatest thing in the most powerful thing in the world, and that that it is something that we all ought to express and deal with a whole lot more than than we do. Was written in, in, I think, the late 1800s I believe. But it is, it is well worth reading. As I said, it's very short. I've read the audio version, and it only takes an hour, so it's not very long book. But it doesn't need Cynthia Washington  29:59 to be well. I will definitely add that to my reading list, because my step brother called me love and it's my nickname, and all the work I have done while on my mom mission after Columbia and over the past few years to help bridge societal gaps, to make the world better for my daughter, her friends and our children and the world ultimately stems from love and gratitude and love are to my focuses. There you go. Michael Hingson  30:46 And as makes a lot of sense, as they should be well. So what have you been doing? Well, so you worked for enterprise, and then you went on, I guess, to do some other things. But what have you been doing since Columbia? Cynthia Washington  31:02 Well, since Columbia, my last class at Columbia was in finance. I studied finance, macro economics. And one more thing I forgot, that's okay. So anyway, well, my last class at Columbia was in finance and Oh, corporate governance, yes. So at Columbia, I studied corporate governance, macroeconomics and finance, while also completing my chief marketing officer executive education requirements and my last class being in finance aligned with Zions Bank, 150 year anniversary of being in business. I thought, wow, this is quite timely. Zions Bank is highly reputable, very respected organization in Utah. And I wanted to work with them while I finished Columbia, and initially I took a role to just kind of understand money real time, working on the front lines across a variety of different branches, and now I still work with them. I am in their retail banking administration department. I work with a great team. I am close to the SVPs, EBPs, and with the branches, our clients. I work on multiple different projects, doing different things, which is so fascinating because I'm in the heartbeat of the business, and it satisfies my my desire to stay relevant and use all my skill sets for good, because I have that ability to touch so many different people and projects in the work that I do at science bank, it allows me the flexibility to maintain my social media influencer status, and both give me the stability to be a good single mom for my daughter who's finishing Up in college. So I'm very grateful for that opportunity, and Colombia opens so many doors. As far as the social media marketing piece of the work I've done since Columbia, I sit on a handful of boards, Big Brothers, Big Sisters. I am on the boulder way forward legislative committee as a chair, and I continue to just do a bunch of philanthropic work, which I. I'm able to promote and highlight within the social media work that I do, so the two work beautifully together, and I am happy just to give back in the capacity I can using my skill sets at a maximized level, Michael Hingson  35:24 okay, well, you also formed your own company, didn't you? Cynthia Washington  35:29 Yes, I did form my own company. It's called level up with C dub, and that business has allowed me to work with amazing brands throughout Park Cities, silicon slopes and globally. It started, yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. It started because I wanted to level up my community and bridge some gaps that I saw, and then it has grown into something bigger and better in the fact that the work that I'm doing is not only helping local businesses, but it's helping level up our youth, and creating an opportunity for our youth to follow a yellow brick road, so to speak, with my work that I have put forth so that they are more resilient, emotionally intelligent, and have the mental strength To endure this ever changing world. So it's been quite interesting to see how it's shifted from helping businesses mentoring individuals into this new space. Michael Hingson  37:14 And so what does the company do today? What? What you talk about helping youth and so on? Tell me a little bit more about what what you do and how you do it, and is it just you, or do you have other people in the company? Cynthia Washington  37:27 No, it's just me. Just now, just me. Yes, I don't have enough time to invest in it because Zions is my nine to five. I work at a local boutique in town to stay in the heartbeat of town, you know. And then I have the social media stuff that I do. So my calendar is quite full. The level up with C dub work has been word of mouth, and people like you have sought me through various platforms, and I like that. I'm not ready to scale it yet, even though it is scalable, but I like being able to control the the the incoming work and produce high quality products with my brand name attached to it. So right now, it's something that exists. Um, it's something it's a labor of love, and so I'm not quite ready to bring on a team, because it's multi faceted. There's a lot of mentoring, there's a lot of coaching, there's a lot of brand building, and these are all things that I just like to do on my own. Michael Hingson  39:20 So what kind of things do you do you do from a mentoring standpoint, what? What exactly does the company do? Cynthia Washington  39:28 Well, from a mentoring standpoint, I mentor across different platforms. I just received an Impact Award for mentoring girls in the tech realm of silicon slopes, over 1000 Utah high schoolers, actually, 1000s of high school girls have been mentored through this program called she tech, of which I am a part of and. Um, in addition to that, I have middle level professionals who want to level up within their career, who utilize me and my services to help coach them to their next corporate move. And so there's some one on one time. People hire me. I fit them into my schedule. We work together. They call me, you know, hey, I have this moment at work that's happening and I need some guidance. How do I navigate it? You know, sometimes it's easier to talk through that situation with a coach than it is to talk through it with your peer or manager, because you don't want to take away the integrity of the the momentum you've created at work. So I act as at sounding board for a handful of other executive, young executives who are up and coming, rising into their career, and so it's it's multifaceted. Everything's been word of mouth, and I don't have a website. I started with one, I perhaps might go back to creating one. But for now, everything is pretty manageable. I just wear a lot of different hats and work through a lot of different projects, helping many different people across different platforms. Michael Hingson  41:48 How do you keep it all together? Cynthia Washington  41:53 Great question. I use a calendar. I write a lot of notes down. I have a very systematic approach to everything that I have going on. I've learned to say no and to prioritize what's most important. I had an executive coach when I was in Silicon Valley and working in the Medicare realm of business and my executive coach brought so much value into being that sounding board for me and Springboarding My career that giving back in that same capacity is so rewarding for me. I find enjoyment out of it, and the busier I am, the more full I feel my life is. And so right now, I manage it all by writing it down and keeping it organized. You know, in my calendars, thankfully, there's flexibility with all that I do, which allows me to be very agile and giving back in the level up with C dub work that I do. Michael Hingson  43:21 Well, it sounds like when you had access to an executive coach, you were very observant about what they did, so that you could do that same sort of thing and pass it on. Because it sounds like you you took to heart the lessons you learned from that coach. Absolutely. Cynthia Washington  43:40 I had the best executive coach. And you know, when I was on my deathbed, she reached out to me and cared for me even though I was no longer her client. You know, we had become friends through that relationship, and I want to be that person for someone else, and that's why right now, I don't have anyone on my team with me, and I don't have an intention of scaling it At this point in time, because I try to, I to take on the workload with intention and purpose so that I can authentically lead and give back to help others grow and thrive within their realm of life, right? Michael Hingson  44:46 Well, you have written a book. Tell us about that and what what it is, and anything you want to talk about, Cynthia Washington  44:54 yeah, this is a book right here for those who. You are able to see Michael Hingson  45:04 it, and it's called Mind Matters. Cynthia Washington  45:07 Yes, sir, Mind Matters. It's the story of my life. It's a memoir encompasses everything and an easy to read book. It encompasses my travels, my corporate climb and fall, my Columbia education and studies, how I overcame some big hurdles with a grind, with grit, mindset and mentality. My time in Hollywood, what I like to call the trifecta me, Eminem and Kobe, and my work, the music of Eminem and Mama mentality with those three things, you can achieve anything. And what else does it include? Oh, it just has some really fun tales of growing up in California. I and some principles, guiding principles I learned from Columbia University that I wanted to encapsulate into this book and share again to give back to others. It's modestly priced on Amazon. You can buy it wherever books are sold. It's I didn't write it for fame or recognition. I respectfully share stories about my friends in Hollywood. Good and, yeah, it's a fun a fun story. I released it a year ago, October 10, and did my first book launch release party, November 15. And so it's really fun to see it become what it has, and to see its ripple effects throughout society. Michael Hingson  47:32 What did you learn about you from writing the book? Cynthia Washington  47:39 Oh, well, writing a book requires a lot of self discipline. I learned that I have lived a story rich with abundant blessings, and I learned that I have accomplished so much with having That spirit of gratitude. I grind it with grit, resilience, that has catapulted me into the space that I am living in now. However, it was also a very humbling experience as I wrote the book, I it healed me in some ways, because I had been in hiding for a year, and as much As I was sharing my life on social media, I was still afraid to live my life because I was in hiding, and so it helped me heal from that trauma, which is why I have it modestly priced, because if I can help someone else overcome something as traumatic that I have lived by sharing my story and giving hope through my story, then I want to put it out there. I'm not in it for money. I'm in it so I can help our society through this humanitarian effort, you know, and sharing a little bit about me might help someone in their time of need. So, yes, I love. Learned. I learned to heal, I learned to trust the process, and I learned who I am. Michael Hingson  50:08 It makes a lot of sense. And I asked the question, having written three books and learning from all three of them, various things about me, but also just learning to have the discipline and to go into that place where you can create something that hopefully people in the world will appreciate. I think that's that's a really cool thing, and clearly you've done that. Cynthia Washington  50:38 Yes, thank you, and you definitely can understand that, you know, you put your heart and soul into this book of creative mindfulness, and it's truly rewarding to share it with other people. And I like to say my books wrapped with my daughter's big thank you hug, because it's wrapped in her artwork that she drew, that I have framed, and I thought it was a perfect cover for it. And it's it's really a blessing to have gone through the trauma, live through it, and for her to see this work of art, share my story and help others and her. Thank you. Hug around it is even a bigger form of love Michael Hingson  51:44 you have won, and you mentioned it earlier, a she Peck she tech champion Impact Award. Tell us about that award, what it is, and a little bit more about why you won one and so on. Cynthia Washington  51:58 Yes, so while at Columbia, I did the level up with CW work, I worked with Zions Bank, had the social media influencer role, and I aligned with a lot of great women and businesses throughout Park City, Salt Lake and silicon slopes, those women became friends and she Tech was founded by one of my friends, and I became involved in that about five years ago, as a mentor, a role model, an influencer, helping young girls learn that there is opportunity in The tech space. Technology space for women and girls learning and their worth, their their value and creating opportunities for them. And so through the social media aspect, I have been able to share to share the great work of she tech and women tech Council and some other brands that I've aligned with to help young girls see other women leaders actively working and living in these different capacities. So all of the work that I do goes hand in hand with this mentoring space and helping our youth see their potential. Chi Tech, I was one of 30 who received that award this year, I was humbly honored to be a recipient of the award. I knew the work I was doing was focused on my love to change the world for my daughter and make the world a better place for her, her friends and ultimately, all children. I just didn't realize how far reaching my impact was until I received the email notifying me of this. Impact Award, and when I stood on stage with all these other champions, champions, champion champions, championing change and this trajectory of our world. It just reinforced all of the work I have done and the profound impact it's having on our youth today, and it's remarkable to like. I can't, I can't express the depth it has, because it's so far reaching, and it's something beyond my wildest dreams that I've created through my work, through all these different intersections of strategic marketing and social media brand work and leading by Cynthia Washington  56:16 good and using my influence for good. And it's just truly amazing to see that I've helped 1000s of teenage girls understand their potential, their value and their worth, knowing that there's so many different possibilities in the tech space for them to learn, grow and do Michael Hingson  56:47 well, congratulations on winning the award. That's a that's a cool thing, and obviously you're making a big difference. Cynthia Washington  56:57 Thank you so much. I'm still so humbled, and I keep having to ground myself because I never expected to be in this moment. I simply was a mom on a mission to change the trajectory for my daughter, and receiving this award was something I never expected, and I keep ground, grounding myself, because I just I'm so humbly honored to have received it, and to have come to this, this elevated level of where I'm at in my current life, by giving up everything, I became something so much bigger and better than I ever expected or or planned for myself, and it's profound to me, and I just have to constantly ground myself and remind myself like that it's it's okay to be here. Michael Hingson  58:17 That's what gratitude can do, and that's what gratitude obviously does for you, because you you clearly exhibit a lot of gratitude in in all that you say and all that you do. And I think that's extremely important. People really should think a little bit more about gratitude than they then they typically do. But you know, it is something that that clearly you have put in the forefront of of your being. You do a lot with social media. And tell me a little bit more about about that as we move forward here and get close to wrapping up. Cynthia Washington  58:57 Well, yes, I do do a lot on social media, but before I answer that question, you found me through social media, and I want you to share a little bit about how you discovered me knowing that you're unable to see a lot of the content I create. So how were you able to find me? And then I'll answer that question. Tell me what intrigued you Michael Hingson  59:31 when you say not see the content, like, What do you mean? Cynthia Washington  59:36 Well, you have a blindness, vision impairment, correct, Michael Hingson  59:46 not an impairment, but that's okay, but, but what is it that I don't see exactly? Cynthia Washington  59:52 How do you see my social media content for you to be able to find. Michael Hingson  1:00:00 I use a piece of software that verbalizes whatever comes across the computer screen, so hearing the the text, listening to what your profile on LinkedIn says about you and so on, is all just as straightforward for me as it is for you, and to describe that in great detail would be like me asking you how you do what you do. It's what we grow up learning. The reality is, blindness isn't the problem. That's why I said it's not an impairment, because people always think about blindness as a visual impairment. Well, visually, I'm not different because I'm blind and I'm not impaired because I am blind, if, if the reality is impairment has nothing to do with it, and we really need to get away from thinking that someone is less than someone else because they may not have the same senses that that we do. And while I don't necessarily have eyesight, I have other gifts that I've learned to maximize, and probably the greatest gift of all, is that I don't happen to be light dependent like you are. The reality is that for you, when there's a power failure or something that causes all the lights and everything to go out, you scramble looking for an iPhone or a smartphone or a flashlight or something to bring light in, because we spent a lot of time bringing light on demand. To you ever since the light bulb was invented, I don't have that problem. The power goes out, doesn't bother me a bit. The reality is we've got to get away from this idea of thing that somebody is impaired because they don't have some things that we do. There are a lot of ways to get information, and eyesight is only one of them. Cynthia Washington  1:01:48 I love that, and that's exactly why I wanted you to explain that, because I think that's super important as we discuss unstoppable mindset. I think that's a critical necessity for society to learn and to know, and because you were able to find me using these great resources that you have and the work I'm putting forth intrigued you to bring me into this meeting with you. So I am, again, so grateful that we have this opportunity to collaborate in this space, bringing both our good works together to Oh, help level up awareness that there are no limits. We are unstoppable. Glasses shattering everywhere because of people like you and me who are doing this good work to change the trajectory of the world, and social media for me, has given me the opportunity to do what you do in this podcast. Michael Hingson  1:03:14 If you want people to be able to reach out to you and interact with you, how best can they do that Cynthia Washington  1:03:22 the like you did through LinkedIn is great. That's how I do receive most of my work is through LinkedIn. People find me there and will message me through then, LinkedIn, what? Michael Hingson  1:03:43 What's your LinkedIn name or your house? Cynthia Washington  1:03:47 Cynthia Washington. Okay, that's easy, yes. Cynthia Washington, Park City, Salt Lake City, will get you to me. Another outlet is through Instagram. I'm little bit more hesitant to reply to the direct messages on Instagram. I do try to filter a lot of my content and screen things. So I do trust LinkedIn a little bit more. As far as the messaging component is concerned, also, I have provided you with my email which you're happy I'm happy for you to share. Okay, so any of those three means will get you connected to me. I do not have a website. As I said, everything is organic, authentic and word of mouth. My Plate is really full, and so I like to be selective of the projects I bring on in hopes that they give back to society in one way or another. Lacher, I'm not doing it to chase every deal or get a bunch of free product. I do it with a very intentional Spirit giving back with gratitude that karmic effect goes a long way well. Michael Hingson  1:05:18 I hope people will reach out. You clearly have a lot to offer, and I think you've you've given us a lot to think about today, which I appreciate a great deal. So thank you very much for that. I want to thank all of you who are listening or watching our podcast today, or maybe you're doing both listening and watching. That's okay too. I want to thank you for being here with us. Love to get your thoughts. If you have any messages or our ideas you want to pass along. Love it if you'd reach out to me. Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I B, e.com, you can and I would appreciate it if you would, wherever you're listening or watching this podcast, give us a five star rating, and please give us a review. We really value your reviews highly, and I would appreciate it if you would do that. If you know of anyone Cynthia, you as well, who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. Introduce us. We're always looking for people to come on to help show everyone that we're all more unstoppable than we think we are. But again, Cynthia, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Can you believe we've been doing this over an hour already? Cynthia Washington  1:06:37 Oh no, not at all. Oh yeah. Well, I am so forever grateful again, and as we head into the holidays, just remind everyone to live with a spirit of gratitude, be kind to others. And there are no limits. It's time to shatter those limits that we have created as barriers and Live limitless with an unstoppable mindset. Michael Hingson  1:07:09 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Kevin covered the following stories: Realtor.com reports the October delistings; U.S mortgage rates vs other countries; the National Federation of Independent Business released their Small Business Optimism Index; the U.S. Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics released the October Job Openings and Turnover Survey (JOLTS); Kevin has the details, digs into the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and opinions along the way.    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kevin covered the following stories: Realtor.com reports the October delistings; U.S mortgage rates vs other countries; the National Federation of Independent Business released their Small Business Optimism Index; the U.S. Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics released the October Job Openings and Turnover Survey (JOLTS); Kevin has the details, digs into the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and opinions along the way.    

White Canes Connect episode 147 features a powerful address from National Federation of the Blind President Mark Riccobono, delivered to the NFB of Pennsylvania State Convention in Harrisburg. Reflecting on the eve of the organization's 85th anniversary, President Riccobono shares his personal journey of discovering the Federation in 1996 and how the community transformed his understanding of blindness, leadership, and collective action.  He highlights landmark achievements driven by blind-led advocacy—from advancing Braille literacy and accessible technology to expanding opportunity in education and employment—and reminds us that progress is only possible when blind people speak and act for themselves.  Looking ahead, he calls on members to lead in emerging areas like artificial intelligence, preserve our history through storytelling, and continue building a diverse, unified movement. His message is both a celebration of how far we've come and a challenge to invest in the future we are creating together. Show notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/147         Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. We Want to Hear Your Story Reach out with questions and comments, or share ideas! We want to hear from you. Call us at (267) 338-4495 or at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.

Kevin covered the following stories: Realtor.com reports the October delistings; U.S mortgage rates vs other countries; the National Federation of Independent Business released their Small Business Optimism Index; the U.S. Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics released the October Job Openings and Turnover Survey (JOLTS); Kevin has the details, digs into the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and opinions along the way.    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What struck me most in my conversation with author Jennifer Shaw is how often we underestimate the power of understanding our own story. Jennifer grew up sensing she was different, yet never had the words for why. Hearing her share how a late diagnosis of autism and ADHD finally helped her trust her own voice reminded me how important it is for all of us to feel seen. As she talked about raising two autistic sons, finding healing through writing, and learning to drop the shame she carried for so long, I found myself thinking about the many people who still hide their struggles because they don't want to be judged. I believe listeners will connect deeply with Jennifer's honesty. She shows that creativity can grow out of the very things we once thought were flaws, and that resilience is something we build each time we choose to show up as ourselves. This episode reminded me why I created Unstoppable Mindset: to hold space for stories like hers—stories that help us see difference as strength and encourage us to build a world where every person is valued for who they truly are. Highlights: 01:33 – See how early misunderstandings can shape the way someone learns to navigate people and communication.06:53 – Learn how masking and observation influence the way neurodivergent adults move through the world.11:21 – Explore how parenting experiences can open the door to understanding your own identity.12:20 – Hear how finally naming a lifelong pattern can shift shame into clarity and self-trust.20:46 – Understand why self-doubt becomes a major barrier and how stepping forward can change that story.25:57 – Discover how personal journeys can naturally weave themselves into creative work and character building.29:01 – Gain insight into why creative careers grow through endurance rather than rapid wins.30:55 – Learn how creative practices can act as grounding tools when life becomes overwhelming.33:20 – Explore how willpower and environment work together in building real resilience.40:23 – See how focusing only on limitations can keep society from recognizing real strengths.45:27 – Consider how acceptance over “fixing” creates more space for people to thrive.46:53 – Hear why embracing difference can open a more confident and creative way of living.51:07 – Learn how limiting beliefs can restrict creativity and how widening your lens can unlock growth.59:38 – Explore how curiosity and lived experience fuel a deeper creative imagination. About the Guest: J. M. Shaw lives in Alberta, Canada, with her husband and two young children. She has been writing for most of her life, though it took years to find the courage to share her stories. What began as a childhood hobby evolved into a passion that, at times, borders on obsession—and is decidedly cheaper than therapy. Though initially interested in teaching and psychology, Shaw ultimately graduated and worked as an X-ray technologist—all the while continuing to write in secret. Through it all, storytelling remained her constant: a sanctuary, a compass, and a way to make sense of the chaos. Her early work filled journals and notebooks, then spilled into typewritten manuscripts and laptop hard drives—worlds crafted from raw imagination and quiet observation. A pivotal turning point came in 2019, when Shaw was diagnosed with autism and ADHD. The news brought clarity to a lifetime of feeling “too much” or “too different.” She realized that her intense focus, emotional depth, and ability to live inside fictional worlds weren't flaws—they were the gifts of a neurodivergent mind. Her unique insights allow her to create characters with emotional realism, while her mythical creatures, societies, and belief systems draw inspiration from both history and modern culture. In many ways, her fantasy series mirrors her own arc: navigating society through the lens of autism, embracing her differences, and discovering where she belongs. Shaw's fiction blends magic with meaning, often exploring themes of identity, resilience, and redemption. Though her worlds are fantastical, her stories remain grounded in human truths. Her characters—flawed, searching, and sometimes broken—feel eerily real. Literary influences like Stephen King, Margaret Atwood, and Dean Koontz helped shape her genre-bending style, while her mother—an English major and blunt-but-honest critic—instilled in her a love of classic literature and the drive to become a better storyteller. In 2021, Shaw released The Ascension, the first book in her fantasy-adventure series, The Callum Walker Series. Since then, she's published three sequels, with dozens of short stories, poems, and manuscripts still in her vault. Though painfully introverted, she attends book signings and author talks to connect with readers—shedding ecstatic tears as they share how deeply her work resonates with them. While these moments can be overwhelming, they remind her why she writes: to create stories that matter. Currently, Shaw is working on the fifth installment of The Callum Walker Series, expanding the emotional arcs and raising the stakes in her imagined realms. Alongside it, she is developing a new dystopian-adventure that blends inequality, rebellion, love, and moral complexity. Whether indie or traditionally published, her dream remains the same: to see her books in bookstores across the world and to keep building worlds for those who need them most. Ways to connect with Jennifer**:** Website: www.jmshawauthor.com Facebook: jmshawauthor Instagram: @jmshaw_author About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And we put it that way, because a lot of diversity people never address the issue of or include people with disabilities in their world, and some of us confront that, and I specifically take the approach you either are inclusive or you're not. There's no partial inclusion. So we put inclusion at the first part of unstoppable mindset, then diversity and the unexpected, which is everything that doesn't have anything to do with inclusion or diversity, which is most things, but it makes it kind of fun anyway, and we're glad that you're here, wherever you happen to be listening or watching, the Podcast. Today, we get to chat with Jennifer Shaw. Jennifer is an author, and she's been a a closet writer part of her life, but but she came out of the closet and has been publishing, which is cool, and she has a lot of other stories to tell, unstoppable in a lot of different ways. So I'm sure we're going to have a lot of fun talking today, and I hope that you learn some interesting and relevant concepts to your world. So Jennifer, thanks for being here and for being on unstoppable mindset. We really appreciate you coming. Jennifer Shaw  02:36 Thank you so much for having me. Well, Michael Hingson  02:38 why don't we start at the beginning, and why don't you tell us about kind of the early Jennifer, early Jennifer, Jennifer Shaw  02:44 so I was very much of an introvert, very shy. I didn't really know how to talk to people. Kind of was trying to figure things out, and was having, was having a hard time figuring things out, and became more of a misfit. And I needed a way of dealing with, you know, my misunderstandings. I came became very much a people watcher, and for a while, that worked, but I needed an outlet in order to be able to analyze and sort out my ideas. And then my mom bought me a typewriter because, you know, I'm that old. And I started, I know about typewriters? Yeah, and I started writing as a hobby, and then it became a passion and obsession. Now it's just cheaper than therapy. And in 2019 I was diagnosed with autism and ADHD, which makes total sense, looking back at all the things that I used to do and the way I felt, it makes sense now, and I thought I never shared any of my stories, but I've been writing by that point for over 30 years. And I thought, well, maybe writing is my special interest. And I got brave, and I sent off my first book in my series. It's now published because I just finished that one at the time to an editor, and I'm thinking, well, the worst they can say is it sucks. And my editor came back and said, This doesn't suck. You should publish. So two years later, I did Michael Hingson  04:05 cool well. So of course, one of the big questions, one of the most important ones of the whole day, is, do you still have the typewriter? No, yeah, I know. I don't know what happened to mine either. It is. It has gone away somewhere. Jennifer Shaw  04:19 Mine was really cool. It was a plug in electrical one had a white out strip and everything. I gave a presentation for grade five classroom, and I told them, I got started on a typewriter, and then I was going into how I got published, and different aspects of fiction writing and and plots and character development, that stuff and that, after an hour and a half, the only questions they had to ask was, what's a typewriter? Michael Hingson  04:43 Typewriter, of course, if you really want to delve into history and be fascinating to learn the history of the typewriter, do you know it? Jennifer Shaw  04:51 No, I do not. Michael Hingson  04:53 So the among other things, one of the first ways a typewriter was developed and used was. Was a countess in Europe who had a husband who didn't pay much attention to her. So she had a lover, and she wanted to be able to communicate with her lover. She is blind, and so she couldn't just have people write down messages and relay them and all that. So somebody invented this machine where she could actually create messages with a keyboard a typewriter, and then seal them, and she could get her ladies in waiting, or whoever to to give them to her, her lover. That was her way to communicate with with him, without her husband finding out. Yeah, so the ultimate note taker, the ultimate note taker, I learned to type. Well, I started to learn at home, and then between seventh and eighth grade, I took some summer school courses, just cuz it was something to do, and one of them was typing, and I didn't even think about the fact that all the other kids in the class kept complaining because they didn't know what letters they were pushing because there were no labels on the keys, which didn't bother me a bit. And so I typed then, I don't know. I assume it still is required out here, but in the eighth grade, you have to pass a test on the US Constitution, and for me to be able to take the test, they got the test transcribed into Braille, and then I brought my typewriter in and typed the answers. I guess. I don't know why they didn't just have me speak to someone, but I'm glad they did it that way. So it was fine. I'm sure it was a little bit noisy for the other kids in the class, but the typewriter wasn't too noisy. But, yeah, I typed all the answers and went from there. So that was kind of cool, but I don't remember what happened to the typewriter over the years. Jennifer Shaw  06:52 I think it gave way to keyboards and, you know, online writing programs. Michael Hingson  06:58 Yeah, I'm sure that it did, but I don't know what happened to my typewriter nevertheless, but oh well. But yeah, I did, and keyboards and everything else. But having used the typewriter, I already knew how to type, except for learning a few keys. Well, even mine was a manual typewriter. And then there was a Braille typewriter created by IBM. It's called the Model D, and it was like a regular typewriter, except instead of letters on the the keys that went up and struck the paper, it was actually braille characters and it and it struck hard enough that it actually created braille characters on the paper. So that was, that was kind of fun. But, yeah, I'm sure it all just kind of went to keyboards and everything else and and then there were word processors, and now it's just all computers. Jennifer Shaw  07:53 Yep, yep. We're a digital age. Michael Hingson  07:55 Nowadays. We are very much a digital age. So you went to to regular school and all that, yep, Jennifer Shaw  08:04 and I was never like I was it was never noticed that I was struggling because, I mean, for the most part, women tend to mask it. That's why less, fewer women are diagnosed than men. I just internalized it, and I came up with my own strategies to deal with things, and unless you were disruptive to class or you had some sort of learning difficulties and stuff, you never really got any attention. So I just sort of disappeared, because I never struggled in school and I was just the shy one. Yeah, taught myself how to communicate with other kids by taking notes of conversations. I have notebooks where I'm like, okay, so and so said this. This was the answer, okay, there was a smile. So that must be what I need to say when somebody says that. So I developed a script for myself in order to be able to socialize. Michael Hingson  08:55 And that was kind of the way you you masked it, or that was part of masking it. Jennifer Shaw  09:00 That was part of masking it. I spent a lot of time people watching so that I could blend in a lot more, kind of trying to figure it out. I felt like I was an alien dropped off on this planet and that somebody forgot to give me the script. And, you know, I was trying to figure things out as I went. Michael Hingson  09:15 Well, maybe that's actually what happened, and they'll come back and pick you up someday, maybe, but then you can beat up on them because they didn't leave a script. Jennifer Shaw  09:25 Yeah, you guys left me here with no instructions, Michael Hingson  09:27 or you were supposed to create the instructions because they were clueless. There's that possibility, you know, Jennifer Shaw  09:33 maybe I was like, you know, patient X or something, Michael Hingson  09:37 the advanced model, as it were. So you, you went through school, you went through high school, and all that. You went to college. Jennifer Shaw  09:45 I did, yes, yeah, I went through I was going to be a teacher, but they were doing the teacher strike at that time, and that I was doing my observation practicum. And I was like, I don't know if that's something I want to go into. I'm glad I didn't. And. Instead, you know, I mean, I had an interest in psychology, and I took some psychology classes, and loved them. It intrigues me how the mind works. But I ended up going into a trade school I went to in Alberta. It's the, it's called an innate northern Alberta Institute of Technology, and I became an x ray technologist, and I worked in that field for many years. Michael Hingson  10:22 Did you enjoy it? I loved it. I love that I Jennifer Shaw  10:25 didn't have to, you know, like, yes, you have to work in an environment where you got other people there, but you can still work independently and, and I loved that. And I love this. I've always been very much a science math geek, you know, things numbers. I have a propensity for numbers and and then science and math, just, you know, they were fun. Michael Hingson  10:45 Yeah, well, I agree, having a master's degree in physics and I have a secondary teaching credential, so I appreciate what you're saying. It's interesting. I would think also, as an x ray technician, although you had to give people instructions as to where to position themselves and all that. It wasn't something where you had to be very conversationally intensive, necessarily, Jennifer Shaw  11:07 yeah, and I mean, people didn't, you know, I didn't spend a lot of time with each patient, and I was able to mask a lot of my awkwardness and stuff and short short bursts, so nobody really noticed. And, you know, I had fun with the science part of it. And, yeah, it just it was never noticed. Although the social aspects, interacting with co workers and stuff, was bit difficult after, you know, outside of the actual tasks, that was interesting. Michael Hingson  11:38 I have a friend who just recently graduated from school learning to be an x ray technician. And I tease her all the time and tell her, you got to really be careful, though, because those x rays can slip out of your grasp if you're not careful, that you just never know when one's going to try to sneak away. So you better keep an eye on them and slap it when it does. Yeah, go catch them. I sent her an email last week saying, I just heard on the news an x ray escape from your hospital. What are you doing to catch it? They're fun, yeah, but, but you, but you did all of that, and then, so how long were you an x ray technician Jennifer Shaw  12:22 a little over 10 years I retired once my kids were born, Michael Hingson  12:27 okay, you had a more, well, a bigger and probably more important job to do that way, Jennifer Shaw  12:36 yes, and I mean, like at the time, we didn't know that both my boys would be, you Know, diagnosed on the spectrum, both of them have anxiety and ADHD, but I just, I was struggling with with work and being a mom, and it, in all honesty, it was going to cost me more for childcare than it was for me to just stay home. Michael Hingson  13:00 How did your so when they were diagnosed, what did your husband think Jennifer Shaw  13:04 my husband was? He says, okay, okay, I get it. Yeah, I can see those things and stuff like that. And I know when from my perspective, because both my boys went through the ADOS assessment, my thoughts were, those are the things you're looking for, because I've done those my whole life. And then, so, like, my oldest was diagnosed in like, June or July, and I received my diagnosis that September, and then my littlest guy was diagnosed the following year. Michael Hingson  13:29 You went through the assessment, and that's how you discovered it. Yep. So how old were you when they when they found it? Jennifer Shaw  13:35 Oh, I don't know if I want to give ages. I was just under 40. Okay. Michael Hingson  13:40 Well, the reason I asked was, as we talked a little bit about before we actually started the recording, I've had a number of people on the podcast who learned that they were on the spectrum. They were diagnosed later in life. I've talked to people who were 40 and even, I think, one or two above, but it just is fascinating to learn how many people actually were diagnosed later in life. And I know that part of it has to do with the fact that we've just gotten a lot smarter about autism and ADHD and so on, which which helps. So I think that that makes a lot of sense that you can understand why people were diagnosed later in life, and in every case, what people have said is that they're so relieved they have an answer they know, and it makes them feel so much better about themselves. Jennifer Shaw  14:36 Yeah, I know for myself, once I was diagnosed, I've never really kept it a secret. I've, you know, I I've given myself permission to ask questions if I'm confused, and then it opens up the doors for other people, like I will, I will tell them, like some things I don't understand, like I don't understand sarcasm. It's difficult. I can give it I don't understand when somebody is being sarcastic to me, and there's some idioms. And jokes that I that just they weigh over my head, so I'm giving myself permission to ask if I'm confused, because otherwise, how will I know? Michael Hingson  15:11 Yeah, it's it's pretty fascinating, and people deal with it in different ways. It's almost like being dyslexic, the same sort of concept you're dealing with, something where it's totally different and you may not even understand it at first, but so many people who realize they're dyslexic or have dyslexia, find ways to deal with it, and most people never even know, yeah, yeah. Jennifer Shaw  15:39 Well, I mean, I've like, not this year, but within the last couple years, I've been diagnosed with dyslexia as well. And then come to find out that my father had it as well, but he just never mentioned. It just never came up. Michael Hingson  15:51 Yeah, yeah. It's, it's pretty fascinating. But human the human psyche and the human body are very malleable, and we can get creative and deal with a lot of stuff, but I think the most important thing is that you figure out and you learn how to deal with it, and you don't make it something that is a negative in your life. It's the way you are. I've talked many times to people, and of course, it comes from me in part, from the being in the World Trade Center. Don't worry about the thing you can't control. And the fact is that autism is there, you're aware of it, and you deal with it, and maybe the day will come when we can learn to control it, but now at least you know what you're dealing with. And that's the big issue, yeah. Jennifer Shaw  16:39 And I think it like you hit it on the nail on the head, is like, the reason so many adults are being diagnosed is because we know more about it. I distinctly remember somebody asking me shortly after I was diagnosed, and they asked me specifically, oh, what's it like to be autistic? And I was like, I don't know. What's it like to not be. It's all I know. You tell me what it's like to not be, and I can tell you what it's like to be. Says it's not something you can really, yeah, people just can't experience it, I guess. Michael Hingson  17:08 Well, people ask me a lot, what's it like to be blind, and what is it like that you're just live in the dark? Well, I don't live in the dark, and that's something that is so unfortunate that we believe that eyesight is the only game in town, or most people do, and the reality is, blindness isn't about darkness. So I don't see, all right, the problem with most people is they do see, and that doesn't work for them. When suddenly the power goes out and you don't have lights anymore. Why do you distinguish one from the other? It's so unfortunate that we do that, but unfortunately, we collectively haven't taught ourselves to recognize that everyone has gifts, and we need to allow people to to manifest their gifts and not negate them and not demean the people just because they're different than us. Jennifer Shaw  17:56 Yeah, and I know I've had I've had people tell me it's like, oh well, you don't look autistic, and I'm like, I don't know what you would expect me to look like, but I've honestly tried really hard not to think of of the autism and the ADHD. I tried really hard not to look at it as a disability. In my own life, I've looked at it as it's just my brain is wired differently. Yeah, I've explained this to my boys. It's, you know, our minds are always open. We can't filter anything that's coming in. And it's like our computer, you know, our brain, if you imagine our brain as being a computer, we've got every possible tab open trying to perform a million different tasks. We've got music playing here, video playing here. We're trying to search for this file. We can't find anything. And then every now and then, it just becomes very overwhelming, and we get the swirly wheel of death and we have to restart, yeah, but we can multitask like nobody's business until then well, and Michael Hingson  18:45 the reality is, most people can learn to do it, although focusing on one thing at a time is always better anyway, but still, I hear what you're saying. My favorite story is a guy wanted to sell me life insurance when I was in college, and I knew at the time that people who were blind or had other disabilities couldn't buy life insurance because the insurance companies decided that we're a higher risk. It turns out that they weren't making that decision based on any real evidence or data. They just assumed it because that's the way the world was, and eventually that was dealt with by law. But this guy called up one day and he said, I want to sell you life insurance. Well, I thought I'd give him a shot at it, so I invited him over, and he came at three in the afternoon, and I didn't tell him in advance. I was blind, so I go to the door with my guide dog at the time Holland, and I opened the door, and he said, I'm looking for Mike Hinkson. And I said, I'm Mike hingson. You are. I'm Michael Hinkson. What can I do for you? Well, you didn't sound blind on the telephone. And I'm still wondering, what are the heck does that mean? Jennifer Shaw  19:52 Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just, I think, you know, it's a lack of understanding. And. You know, the inability to put yourself in somebody else's shoes? Michael Hingson  20:03 Well, I think we have the ability, but we just don't, we don't learn how to use it. But you're right. It's all about education. And I think, personally, that all of us are teachers, or should be or can be. And so I choose not to take offense when somebody says you don't sound blind, or makes other kinds of comments. I i may push a little hard, but I can't be angry at them, because I know that it's all about ignorance, and they just don't know, and we as a society don't teach which we should do more of Jennifer Shaw  20:38 Yeah, I know that once I made, you know, like I posted on my, you know, with talk to my friends and stuff about the fact that I have autism and that I just, I'm learning about it myself as well. I've had a lot of people come to me and ask me, it's like, well, what, what? What did you notice? How did you find out? And I think I might be on the spectrum. And there's, you know, and it's amazing how many people came out of the woodwork with queries about, you know, questions. And I was like, This is awesome. I can answer questions and educate, yeah, Michael Hingson  21:09 well, and it's true, and the only way we can really learn and deal with some of the stuff is to have a conversation, and to have conversations with each other and be included in the conversation, and that's where it gets really comfortable, or uncomfortable is that people don't want to include you. Oh, I could end up like that person, or that person just clearly isn't, isn't as capable as I because they're blind or they have autism. Well, that's just not true, yeah, and it's, it's a challenge to deal with. Well, here's a question for you. What do you think is the biggest barrier that that people have or that they impose on themselves, and how do you move past it? Jennifer Shaw  21:52 I think that the biggest barrier that people pose on them, pose on themselves, is doubting whether or not they're worthwhile and and I know I did the lat I did that for many years and and, like I said, it wasn't until I received my diagnosis, I thought maybe, maybe, you know, I won't know unless I try. So I got out of my comfort zone, and I surpassed my doubt, and I tried, and then I come to find out that, okay, I should publish. And I've had some, you know, I've had a lot of fun doing that, and I've seen some success in that as well. Michael Hingson  22:24 One of my favorite quotes goes back to the original Star Wars movie Yoda, who said there is no try, do or do not. Don't try. I think that's absolutely true. Do it. That's why I also totally decided in the past to stop using the word failure, because failure is such an end all inappropriate thing. All right, so something didn't work out. The real question, and most of us don't learn to do it, although some of us are trying to teach them, but the biggest question is, why did this happen? What do I do about it? And we don't learn how to be introspective and analyze ourselves about that, I wrote a book that was published last year called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith, and it's all about teaching people from lessons I learned from my dogs about how to control fear and how to really step back when things happen and analyze what you do, what you fear, what you're about and how you deal with it. But there's no such thing as failure. It's just okay. This didn't work out right. Why? Why was I afraid? Or why am I afraid now? And what do I do about it? And we just don't see nearly as much analytical thinking on those kinds of subjects as we should. Jennifer Shaw  23:49 Yeah, wasn't there a quote somewhere? I can't remember who it was. I think was Edison, maybe, that he didn't fail 99 times. He found 99 times how not to do it right, and he just kept going and going and going until we got it right. Yeah. The other Michael Hingson  24:04 one I really like is the quote from Einstein that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing every time and expecting something different to happen. I think Jennifer Shaw  24:12 they said that at my graduation from high school, you'll get what you got, yeah, Michael Hingson  24:19 and you can decide to look for alternatives and look for ways to do it better, but, but it is, I think you're I don't know if it was Edison, but I'm going to assume it was who said that, but I think you're right, and it certainly makes a lot of Jennifer Shaw  24:35 sense, yes, yeah, and I've tried to live by embracing, because I've told this to my kids as well, and I've embraced the idea that, you know, we learn better from our mistakes than we do from the things we did right, Michael Hingson  24:49 although we could learn if we really thought about it, when we do something right and we go back and look at it and say, What could I have done to even make that better? And we usually don't do that well, that worked out well, so I don't have to worry about that. Well, exactly we should, you know, Jennifer Shaw  25:07 2020 looking back and saying, Well, what would we have done if this had happened? We just sort of stop. It's like when you're looking for your keys in your house. Once you find them, you stop looking. You don't keep looking for possible places it could have been. You just stop the journey. Michael Hingson  25:20 Or you don't look at why did I put them there? That's not where I usually put them. Speaker 1  25:26 Yeah, exactly, yeah. So when Michael Hingson  25:30 you discovered that you were on the spectrum, what did your husband think about Jennifer Shaw  25:34 that? He thought it made sense. Um, that Michael Hingson  25:37 explains a lot about you. Jennifer Shaw  25:38 Yeah, a little bit might be on the spectrum as well. He might be ADHD, because he has a lot of the same traits as me. But he says, yeah, it's kind of not worth going and getting it checked out and stuff like that so Michael Hingson  25:54 well, until he he wants to, then that probably makes sense. Jennifer Shaw  25:59 And there's no reason. There's no reason. Yeah, Michael Hingson  26:03 things go well, and that that's the big, important thing. But you look at at life, you look at what's going on, and you look at how you can change, what you need to change, and go forward Exactly. So tell me about your writing. You have, you have been writing a series. What did you do before the series? What was sort of the first things that you wrote that were published? Jennifer Shaw  26:26 That I wrote a short story for in a classroom assignment, my teacher published it. Wrote a couple poems. I had a teacher, a different teacher published those. But this, the series that I've written is kind of my first foray into publishing and stuff. And then just prior to that, it was just writing stories for myself, or writing scenes that came to to mind that I wanted to explore, and a lot of them had to do with characters overcoming adversity, because that's how I felt. That was what was going on in my life, Michael Hingson  26:57 and it was so what's the series about? Jennifer Shaw  27:03 So it's a magic, fantasy action adventure, some supernatural suspense kind of all sprinkled in for good measure, because I get bored of my series is there's our world, our time, coexisting magical realm, but there's a veil that separates us, and we can't see across this veil because we don't have magic. But these creatures that do can and have and they've been the source of inspiration for our fairy tales and Monster stories. And then my main character, a young man by the name of Callum Walker, is born with the ability to use magic. He doesn't know why. He's trying to make the most of it. We do learn why as we go through the series, but he doesn't know. And because he has magic, he's able to cross this veil into this magical realm. And he's learning about this world. He's learning about the beings in it. Adventures ensue, and we follow him through the series, trying to figure out as he's trying to figure out who he is, where he belongs, because he's too magic for here, but to human care and then master these abilities to survive. Michael Hingson  27:56 So has he figured out an answer to the question of why or where? Jennifer Shaw  28:00 Not yet. No answers as we go, but he's learning more. Mostly it's he's learning to accept himself and to start to trust and open up. And, you know, instead of thinking that there must be something wrong with him, and that's why he has these abilities, he starts to think, Okay, well, what can I do with these abilities and stuff? So in a lot of ways, his journey mirrors mine Michael Hingson  28:23 well, and he's asking questions, and as you ask questions, that's the most important thing you're willing to consider and explore, absolutely. So are these self published, or does a publisher publish them? Jennifer Shaw  28:40 I'm indie, published through press company called Maverick first press. Michael Hingson  28:44 Inc, have any of the books been converted to audio? Jennifer Shaw  28:48 Not yet, but I am looking into it. Michael Hingson  28:51 Some of us would like that I do read braille, and I could get a book in electronic form, and I can probably get it converted, but it'll be fun if you do get them into an audio format. I love magic and fantasy, and especially when it isn't too dark and too heavy. I've read Stephen King, but I've gotten away from reading a lot of Stephen King, just because I don't think I need things to be that dark. Although I am very impressed by what he does and how he comes up with these ideas, I'll never know. Jennifer Shaw  29:20 Yeah, I know. I don't think that it's as dark as Stephen King, but it's certainly a little darker and older than Harry Potter series. Michael Hingson  29:26 So, yeah, well, and and Harry Potter has been another one that has been certainly very good and has has encouraged a lot of kids to read. Yes and adults, Jennifer Shaw  29:42 yeah, we don't all have to be middle grade students to enjoy a middle 29:46 grade book, right? Michael Hingson  29:49 Oh, absolutely true. Well, so if you had to give one piece of advice or talk about experiences, to write. Writers who are trying to share, what would you what would you tell them? Jennifer Shaw  30:05 I would say that writing and publishing, it's a marathon. It's not a race. Don't expect immediate success. You have to work for it. But don't give up. You know? I mean, a lot of times we tend to give up too soon, when we don't see results and stuff. But if you give up, you'll never reach the finish line if you continue going, you may, you know, eventually you'll reach the finish line, and maybe not what you expect, but you will reach that finish line if you keep going. Michael Hingson  30:30 Yeah, we we are taught all too often to give up way too early. Well, it didn't work, so obviously it's not the right answer. Well, maybe it was the right answer. Most people aren't. JK Rowling, but at the same time, she went through a lot before she started getting her books published, but they're very creative. Yep, I would, I would still like to see a new series of Harry Potter books. Well, there is a guy who wrote James Potter his son, who's written a series, which is pretty good, but, you know, they're fun, yeah. Jennifer Shaw  31:07 Oh, I mean, that's why we like to read them. We like to imagine, we like to, you know, put ourselves in the shoes of, you know, the superhero. And I think that we all kind of, you know, feel a connection to those unlikely heroes that aren't perfect. And I think that appeals to a lot of people. Michael Hingson  31:27 I think it certainly does. I mean, that's clearly a lot of Harry Potter. He was certainly a kid who was different. Couldn't figure out why, and wasn't always well understood, but he worked at it, and that is something that we all can take a lesson to learn. Speaker 1  31:45 Exactly yes. So Michael Hingson  31:48 given everything that goes on with you, if the world feels overwhelming at some point, what kind of things do you do to ground yourself or or get calm again? Jennifer Shaw  31:59 Well, writing is my self care. It's my outlet. It's therapy. Aside from writing, I I'm getting back into reading because I'm going to book signing events and talks and such, and everybody's recommending, oh, read this book, read this book, and I'm finding some hidden gems out there. So I'm getting back into reading, and that seems to be very relaxing, but I do go. I do have to step away from a lot of people sometimes and just be by myself. And I'll, I'll put my headphones on, and I'll listen to my my track. I guess it's not track anymore. It was Spotify. And I'll just go for a walk for an hour, let my mind wander like a video and see where it leads me, and then come back an hour later, and my husband's like, Oh, where'd you walk? Because, like, I have no idea, but you should hear the adventures I had, yeah, Michael Hingson  32:44 both from what you read and what you thought Jennifer Shaw  32:45 about, yeah, just the things going through my head. What? And then the same thing when I'm writing, I see it as a movie in my head, and I'm just writing down what I see a lot of times, long for the ride. Michael Hingson  32:55 Yeah, your characters are writing it, and you're just there, Jennifer Shaw  32:58 yeah, you know. And when I'm when I'm in the zone. I call those the zone moments. And I won't know what's going to happen until it starts to happen. And I'm writing a sentence, oh, I didn't know that was gonna happen. I want to see where this goes. And it'll take me to somewhere where I'm like, wow, that's an amazing scene. How could I, how did I think of that? Or, on the contrary, it'll take me somewhere and I'll be like, What is wrong with me? I know that came out of my head, but what is wrong with me? So, you know, it's a double edged sword, Michael Hingson  33:26 but write them all down, because you never know where you can use them. Jennifer Shaw  33:29 Oh, absolutely. I don't delete anything. I can just wind and then start again, see where it leads. And it never goes to the same place twice. Michael Hingson  33:37 That's what makes it fun. It's an adventure. I don't know. I think there's an alien presence here somewhere. Jennifer Shaw  33:44 Who knows? Maybe I'm the next step in evolution. Could Michael Hingson  33:47 be or you come from somewhere else. And like I said, they put you down here to figure it out, and they'll come back and get you Jennifer Shaw  33:57 well, but never know. There's so many things we don't understand. You know, Michael Hingson  34:00 well, then that's true, but you know, all you can do is keep working at it and think about it. And you never know when you'll come up, come up with an answer well, or story or another story, right? So keep writing. So clearly, though, you exhibit a lot of resilience in a number of ways. Do you think resilience is something we're born with, or something that we learn, or both. Jennifer Shaw  34:25 I think it's a little of both. You know, maybe we have a stronger determination or willfulness when we're born, but it can also be a part of our environment. You know, we develop things that we want to do. We develop desires and dreams and stuff. And you know the combination of the two, the you know, the willful resolve and the desire to dream and be better. And I think those two combined will drive us towards our our goals. Michael Hingson  34:53 Now are your parents still with us? Yes. So what did they think when. You were diagnosed as being on the spectrum. Jennifer Shaw  35:03 Um, I think my dad was more open to the idea. I don't think my mom believed it, but then she's kind of, she's kind of saying, like, okay, maybe, maybe it's, oddly enough, she was, you know, more open to the idea of me having ADHD than autism. And I just think there was just a lack of understanding. But as time has gone on, I think she sees it, not just in me, but I think she sees aspects of that in herself as well. Michael Hingson  35:28 And in a sense, that's what I was wondering, was that they, they saw you grow up, and in some ways, they had to see what was going on. And I was wondering if, when you got an answer, if that was really something that helped them or that they understood? Jennifer Shaw  35:46 Yeah, I I think so. Although I did internalize a lot of of my understandings and misconceptions about life, I internalized it a lot, and I was the annoying cousins because I just, you know, said the appropriate things at inappropriate times and didn't catch jokes and didn't understand sarcasm and and I was just the oddball one out. But I think now that my mom understands a little bit more about autism and ADHD, she's seeing the signs Michael Hingson  36:13 well, and whether she understood it or not, she had to, certainly, as your mom, see that there was something going on. Well, I don't know my I'm whether she verbalized it or she just changed it out. Jennifer Shaw  36:28 I think she was just, she was working two full time jobs raising five kids on her own. I think that there just wasn't enough time in the day to notice everything. 36:37 Yeah, well, Michael Hingson  36:40 but it's always nice to really get an answer, and you you've accepted this as the answer, and hopefully they will, they will accept it as well. So that's a good thing. Jennifer Shaw  36:54 Whether or not they accept it is up to them. I'm that's their choice. Yeah, yeah. It's their choice. The most important thing is that I'm understanding it. Michael Hingson  37:04 Yeah, well, and then helps you move forward. Which is, which is a good thing? Yes. So do you think that vulnerability is part of resilience? Jennifer Shaw  37:18 I think it's important to understand where we're vulnerable. It's like accepting your weaknesses. We all want to improve. We don't want to stay weak and vulnerable, but the only way to improve is to accept those and to understand those and to identify those so that we know where to improve. So I think that it is important. Michael Hingson  37:38 I think it's crucial that we continue to work on our own ideas and attitudes and selves to be able to to move forward. And you're right. I think vulnerability is something that we all exhibit in one way or another, and when we do is that a bad thing? No, I don't think it should be. I think there are some people who think they're invulnerable to everything, and the reality is they're not Jennifer Shaw  38:09 those narcissists. Yeah, Michael Hingson  38:11 was getting there, but that's and that's exactly the problem. Is that they won't deal with issues at all. And so the fact of the matter is that they they cause a lot more difficulty for everyone. Yep, of course, they never think they do, but they do. Yeah. Jennifer Shaw  38:30 I mean, if you don't accept the fact that you're not perfect and that you have weaknesses and vulnerabilities, then you're just it turns into you're just either denying it or you're completely ignorant. How do you Michael Hingson  38:41 balance strength and softness? And because, you know when you're dealing with vulnerability and so on, and it happens, well, how do you, how do you bring all of it to balance? Jennifer Shaw  38:50 Um, it's the yin and yang, right? Um, you know, the strength keeps you going, the softness keeps you open to accepting and learning. Michael Hingson  38:59 Yeah, that makes sense. It gives you the opportunity to to go back and analyze and synthesize whatever you're thinking. Yes. Well, autism is, by the definitions that we face, considered a disability, which is fine, although my belief is that everybody on the planet has a disability, and for most people, as others have heard me say on this podcast, the disability that most people have is their light dependent, and they don't do well if suddenly the lights go out until they can find a smartphone or whatever, because the inventors, 147 years ago created the electric light bulb, which started us on a road of looking for ways to have light on demand whenever we wanted it and whenever we do want it, when that works, until suddenly the light on demand machine isn't directly available to us when light goes away. So I think that light on demand is a lovely thing, but the machines that provide it are. Only covering up a disability that most people have that they don't want to recognize. Jennifer Shaw  40:05 And I'd also argue that the more dependent we become on technology, that the harder it is to adjust to, you know, the way we used to live. If you go to the grocery store, everything's automated. And if the power goes out at the grocery store, nobody knows how to count out change now, yeah, Michael Hingson  40:22 they they cannot calculate on their own. I continue to work to be able to do that. So I like to to figure things out. People are always saying to me, How come you got the answers so quickly of how much change or how much to leave for a tip I practice, yeah, it's not magical. And the reality is, you don't always have a calculator, and a calculator is just one more thing to lug around. So why have it when you can just learn to do it yourself? Yeah? Jennifer Shaw  40:49 Or we have a cell phone which has got everything on it. Michael Hingson  40:52 Oh, I know, yeah, there is that too. But you know, the the thing about all of this is that we all have disabilities, is what I'm basically saying. But if you use disability in sort of the traditional sense, and by that I mean you have certain kinds of conditions that people call a disability, although I will submit absolutely that disability does not mean a lack of ability. But how do societal definitions of disability, kind of affect people more than the actual condition itself, whatever it is. Jennifer Shaw  41:26 I think society as a whole tend to focus on the negatives and the limitations, and if you focus solely on those, then nobody can see beyond those to what a person can do, because there's a whole, you know, there's a whole lot out there that people can do. You can, you can learn to adjust to a lot of things. The brain is very malleable. And, you know, we're not just given one sense for one reason. You know, we have five senses, well, arguably more, depending on who you talk to, yeah, to feel out the world. And same thing with autism is, you know, I mean, I had a hard time those things that would come naturally to people, like socializing, learning to speak, even my son at the playground, he didn't know how to approach kids to ask him to play and but those things can be learned. They just have to spend the time doing it well. Michael Hingson  42:19 And I hear you, do you think that autism is under the definition of disability? Jennifer Shaw  42:26 I think it can be very debilitating. I think that, you know, and then some people suffer more severe. They're more ranges than than I do mine, but I do think that the brain can learn to adjust a lot, maybe not the same as everybody else, and there will be struggles and there will be challenges, and there'll be anxieties and and things is it is, in a way, a disability. It'll never go away. But I don't think it has to be debilitating Michael Hingson  42:59 struggles and anxieties, but everyone experiences that in one way or another, and that's, of course, the point. Why should some of us be singled out? Jennifer Shaw  43:07 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I do know, though, that with there's, I guess we call them an invisible disability, because I don't look autistic, I don't look ADHD, but I struggle inwardly. It's a lot more emotional. It's a lot more mental, you know, analyzing every conversation I've ever had. It's very exhausting and confusing, and it can lead to other things and stuff that, you know, I mean, I don't think everybody else goes around counting license plates obsessively, you know, adding up numbers on license plates and stuff. And if I don't, it can be very anxiety inducing. I don't think everybody else has to, you know, make notebooks worth of conversations to learn to talk to people and watch the world around them, to try to figure out how to act. I think for a lot of people, it comes naturally. And because I had to learn all those things on my own and stuff, it created a lot more anxiety than another person would have in that area, and life is already chaotic enough, you know, more anxiety on top of anxiety and such. Michael Hingson  44:11 Yeah, but some of that we create ourselves and don't need to. And again, it gets back to the fact we all have different gifts, and so some people are much more socially outgoing, so they can do so many more things that seem like everyone should be able to do them. But again, not everyone has the same gifts. Yeah, I think that we need to recognize that. Sorry, go ahead. I was gonna say, Jennifer Shaw  44:34 just like, not everybody has the same weaknesses, right? I learned. I think, you know, if we, if we learned to, you know, share the strengths that we have that might overcome somebody else's weaknesses and stuff. It would be a whole lot better place. Instead of trying to label everybody and segregate everybody based on their limitations, let's, let's look at their strengths and see which ones coordinate. Yeah. Michael Hingson  44:56 How does HD? ADHD manifest itself? Jennifer Shaw  45:00 Yeah, it's some, in a lot of ways, very similar to autism, and that's probably why it's now considered part of the autism spectrum. I have a difficult time focusing on things that I don't find intriguing, like, oh gosh, if I had to read a social studies textbook, I would go stark raving mad and fall asleep. And I've really hard time staying focused. Don't have to read the same paragraph 20 times, but you give me a textbook on physics, and I'm right in there, and I'll hyper focus for like, 12 straight hours, forgetting the world exists and don't eat, don't sleep, don't move, and I will just immerse myself in that. And then there's a difficult time regulating emotions so somebody gets upset about something for the most part. You know, you can calm yourself down and stuff like that. With autism and ADHD, it's really hard to regulate those emotions and come down from that hyper, hyper emotional state down to a normal state. Michael Hingson  46:00 I can see that in a lot of ways, it can look very similar to to autism in terms of the way you're describing it. It makes, makes sense, yeah, which? Which is something one has to deal with. Well, if people stop trying to fix what makes us different? What could we do with the world? How would things be different? Jennifer Shaw  46:22 I think the world be very interesting if we stopped trying to fix people and just started trying to accept people and see how, you know, like, I think that for one we would also be a lot more open to accepting people, but that would have to come first. And I think that would be amazing, because, you know, if we were all the same and we all tried to fit into the same mold, it's going to be a very boring place. Michael Hingson  46:46 The thing that is interesting about what you just said, and the question really is, when we try to fix things, why do we need to fix things? What is it that's really broken? And that's of course, the big issue is that people make assumptions based on just their own experiences, rather than looking at other people and looking at their experiences. Is that really broken? As it goes back to like when I talk about blindness, yeah, am I broken? I don't think so. I do things differently. If I had been able to see growing up, that would have been nice. But you know what? It's not the end of the world not to and it doesn't make me less of a person, and you happen to be on the autism spectrum, that's fine. It would be nice if you didn't have to deal with that, and you could function and deal with things the way most people do. But there are probably advantages, and there's certainly reasons why you are the way you are, why I am the way I am. And so why should that be a bad thing? Jennifer Shaw  47:48 I don't think it is. I mean, other than the fact that I would love to be, you know, not have to suffer with the stress and anxieties that I do, and the insecurities and the doubt and trying to figure out this world and where I belong and stuff, I wouldn't. I like the way my brain works. I like the way I think, you know, very What if, very out of the box, very creative mindsets. And I wouldn't change that for the world. Michael Hingson  48:15 Yeah, and I think people really should be accepted the way they are. Certainly there are people who we classify as geniuses because they do something that we didn't think of, and it catches on, and it's creative. Einstein did it. I mean, for that matter, there's something that that Elon Musk has done that has created this vehicle that no one else created successfully before him. Now I'm not sure that he's the greatest business guy, because I hear that Tesla is not the most profitable company in the world, but that's fine. Or Steve Jobs and Bill Gates created things. Did they do it all? Jennifer Shaw  48:56 Sorry, Sebastian Bach too. Yeah. I mean those prodigies, right? Michael Hingson  49:01 And they didn't do they didn't do everything. I understand that Einstein wasn't the greatest mathematician in the world, but he was great at concepts, and he had other people who who helped with some of the math that he didn't do, but, but the reality is, we all have gifts, and we should be able to use those gifts, and other people should appreciate them and be able to add on to what they do. One thing I always told employees when I hired people, is my job isn't to boss you around because I hired you because you demonstrated enough that you can do the job I want you to do, but my job is not to boss you, but rather to use my skills to help enhance what you do. So what we need to do is to work together to figure out how I can help you be better because of the gifts that I bring that you don't have. Some people got that, and some people didn't. Jennifer Shaw  49:50 Some people are just, they're less, you know, open minded. I think I don't know, like, less accepting of other people and less accepting of differences. And it's unfortunate. Passionate, you know, and that creates a lot of problems that, you know, they can't look beyond differences and to see the beauty behind it. Michael Hingson  50:11 Yeah, and, and the fact of the matter is that, again, we were all on the earth in one way or another, and at some point we're going to have to learn to accept that we're all part of the same world, and working together is a better way to do it. Yeah, absolutely. How do we get there? Jennifer Shaw  50:28 Yeah, I don't know. Maybe idealistic, you know, Star Trek society, or utopian society, you know. And maybe in 100 or 200 years, we'll get there. But if you think about 100 years ago, if you look at us 100 years ago, and then you think of all the technology that we have today, and that's in, like, one century is not a long time, given how long people have been on this planet. And look at all the things we've accomplished, technology wise, and look at all the great things that we have done, you know, and it's just imagine how many more, or how much, how much more we could do if we work together instead of working against each other. Michael Hingson  51:06 Yeah, and that's of course, the issue is that we haven't learned yet to necessarily work together. To some, for some people, that gets back to narcissism, right? They, they're, they're the only ones who know anything. What do you do? But yeah, I hear you, but, but, you know, I think the day is going to come when we're going to truly learn and understand that we're all in this together, and we really need to learn to work together, otherwise it's going to be a real, serious issue. Hopefully that happens sooner than later, Jennifer Shaw  51:39 yes, yeah, I don't think so, but it would be a nice to imagine what it would be like if it happened tomorrow. Michael Hingson  51:47 Yeah, how much potential do you think is lost, not because of limitations, but, but rather because of how we define them? Jennifer Shaw  51:58 I think we use limitations to set our boundaries, but by setting boundaries, we can never see ourselves moving past them, and nor do we try so. I think that setting limitations is hugely detrimental to our growth as as you know, creative minds. Michael Hingson  52:18 I think also though limitations are what we often put on other people, and oftentimes out of fear because somebody is different than us, and we create limitations that that aren't realistic, although we try to pigeonhole people. But the reality is that limitations are are are also representations of our fears and our misconceptions about other people, and it's the whole thing of, don't confuse me with the facts. Jennifer Shaw  52:51 Yes, yeah. And you know there's Yeah, like you said, there's these self limitations, but there's also limitations that we place on other people because we've judged them based on our understanding. Michael Hingson  53:03 Yeah, and we shouldn't do that, because we probably don't really know them very well anyway, but I but I do think that we all define ourselves, and we each define who we are, and that gets back to the whole thing of, don't judge somebody by what they look like or or what you think about them. Judge people by their actions, and give people the opportunity to really work on showing you what they can do. Jennifer Shaw  53:36 Absolutely, that's definitely a motto by which I've tried to live my life. I honestly don't know everybody out there. I mean, I don't think anybody does. And unless somebody gives me a reason or their behavior says otherwise, I'm going to assume that they're, you know, a good person, you know. I mean, if they, you know, if I assume this person is a good person, but maybe they smack me across face or take, you know, steal from me and stuff, then I'm going to judge those behaviors. Michael Hingson  54:02 One of the things that I learned, and we talked about in my book live like a guide dog, is dogs, and I do believe this love unconditionally, unless something really hurts them, so that they just stop loving. But dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is again, unless something truly has been traumatic for a dog. Dogs are more open to trust than we are. They don't worry about, well, what's this guy's hidden agenda, or why is this woman the way she is? The fact is that they're open to trust and they're looking to develop trusting relationships, and they also want us to set the rules. They want us to be the pack leaders. I'm sure there are some dogs that that probably are better than the people they're with, but by and large, the dog wants the person to be the pack leader. They want them to tell the dog, what are the rules? So. Every guide dog I've had, it's all about setting boundaries, setting rules, and working with that dog so that we each know what our responsibilities to the relationship are. And I think absolutely dogs can get that just as much as people do. They're looking for us to set the rules, but they want that, and the fact of the matter is that they get it just as much as we do. And if that relationship really develops, the kind of trust that's possible, that's a bond that's second to none, and we should all honor that we could do that with with each other too. Yeah, there are people who have hidden agendas and people that we can learn not to trust because they don't want to earn our trust either. They're in it for themselves. But I don't think that most people are that way. I think that most people really do want to develop relationships. Jennifer Shaw  55:51 Yeah, and another aspect of dogs too, is they're very humble, you know, they they don't, I mean, they probably do have some, you know, some egos, but for the most part, they're very humble, and they don't dwell on the mistakes of their past. They live in the moment. And I love Yeah, no, go ahead. They do absolutely they do Michael Hingson  56:14 one of the things that I learned after September 11, because my contacted the folks at Guide Dogs for the Blind about it, my diet, my guide dog was Roselle, and I said, Do you think this affected her, the whole relationship? And the veterinarian I spoke with, who was the head of veterinary services, the guide dogs asked, did anything directly threaten her? And I said, no, nothing did. He said, Well, there's your answer. The fact is, dogs don't do what if they don't worry about what might have been or even what happened if it didn't affect them? They they do live in the moment when we got home after the events on September 11, I took roselle's harness off and was going to take her outside. She would have none of it. She ran off, grabbed her favorite tug bone and started playing tug of war with our retired guy dog, Lenny. It was over for her. It was done. Jennifer Shaw  57:06 It's finished, the journey's done, and I'm living in this moment now, yeah, Michael Hingson  57:10 different moment. I'm not going to worry about it, and you shouldn't either, which was the lesson to learn from that. Yes, but the reality is that dogs don't do what. If dogs really want to just do what they need to do. They know the rules, like I said. They want to know what you expect, and they will deal with that. And by and large, once you set rules, dogs will live by those rules. And if they don't, you tell them that you didn't do that the right way. You don't do that in a mean way. There are very strong ways of positively telling a dog, yeah, that's not what the right thing was to do. But by the same token, typica

Hour 1 is busting at the seams with news involving Iowa! Today, President Trump announced a "farm bailout" to help the farm markets after October's announcement that China agreed to purchase U.S. soybeans. Simon also talks to the State Director of the National Federation of Independent Businesses, Matt Everson, about the potential of BOI Reporting returning in future administrations that will affect the 200k Iowa small businesses.

Simon talks to the State Director of the National Federation of Independent Businesses, Matt Everson, about the potential of BOI Reporting returning in future administrations that will affect the 200k Iowa small businesses.

Project 2025 begins with a simple premise: the next conservative president should arrive in Washington not just with ideas, but with a turnkey plan to remake the federal government. The Heritage Foundation, which coordinates the effort, calls its 900-page blueprint Mandate for Leadership and describes it as a manual to “restore the family as the centerpiece of American life” and “dismantle the administrative state,” all within the first 180 days of a new administration, according to Heritage's own materials and summaries by the American Civil Liberties Union and federal employee groups.At the heart of the project are two tracks: changing the rules, and changing the people who enforce them. Heritage and allied authors propose reviving and expanding “Schedule F,” a Trump-era personnel category that would let a president strip civil service protections from tens of thousands of policy-related jobs and replace career officials with ideological loyalists. The National Federation of Federal Employees warns that this would allow “unlimited political appointees without expiration dates,” effectively turning much of the bureaucracy into an at-will workforce devoted to a single agenda.The blueprint also sketches sweeping changes to major agencies. In education, Project 2025 urges closing the Department of Education entirely, shifting its programs to other departments and sending more power and funding directly to states. Heritage authors argue this would curb what they call “woke propaganda” and boost school choice and parental rights. Critics, including the Center for Progressive Reform, counter that such a move could destabilize protections for students with disabilities and civil rights enforcement in schools.On law enforcement and regulation, the document calls for putting traditionally independent entities under direct presidential control. It recommends tightening White House oversight of the Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation, and even abolishing the Federal Trade Commission and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Project authors say this would streamline regulation and stop what they describe as anti-business overreach. Consumer advocates respond that eliminating agencies that have returned billions of dollars to defrauded borrowers and credit card holders would leave ordinary families more exposed to corporate abuse.The plan reaches deep into social policy as well. Heritage's Mandate for Leadership urges major cuts to Medicaid, new work requirements, and options to turn it into a voucher-style program, while also rolling back reproductive rights, LGBTQ protections, and climate regulations in favor of expanded fossil fuel production. Supporters frame this as restoring traditional values and economic freedom. Opponents warn it amounts to a radical centralization of power in the presidency combined with a contraction of the social safety net.As listeners watch the 2024 and 2025 political calendar unfold, Project 2025 now serves as both a roadmap for conservatives and a rallying point for critics. Key milestones ahead include any formal embrace or rejection of the blueprint by presidential candidates, legal battles over Schedule F–style reforms, and congressional fights over agency funding and structure. However those decisions break, they will determine whether Project 2025 remains a provocative manifesto or becomes the operating manual for American governance.Thanks for tuning in, and come back next week for more.Some great Deals https://amzn.to/49SJ3QsFor more check out http://www.quietplease.aiThis content was created in partnership and with the help of Artificial Intelligence AI

Stories have a way of helping us recognize ourselves, and that's exactly what happened in my conversation with Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond. Nana shares what it was like to grow up in Queens, then suddenly move to a boarding school in Ghana, and how that experience shaped her identity in ways she's still uncovering today. As Nana describes her path from writer to author, her years of persistence, and the curiosity that led to books like Powder Necklace and Blue, I felt a deep connection to her commitment to keep creating even when the process feels uncertain. We also explored trust, partnership, and the lessons my guide dogs have taught me—all ideas that tie into the heart of Nana's storytelling. This conversation is an invitation to see your own life with more clarity, courage, and compassion. Highlights: 00:00:10 – Step into a conversation that explores how stories shape courage and connection. 00:01:41 – See how early environments influence identity and spark deeper questions about belonging. 00:02:55 – Learn how a major cultural shift can expand perspective and redefine personal truth. 00:23:05 – Discover what creative persistence looks like when the path is long and uncertain. 00:27:45 – Understand what distinguishes writing from fully embracing authorship. 00:33:22 – Explore how powerful storytelling draws people into a moment rather than just describing it. 00:46:45 – Follow how curiosity about history can unlock unexpected creative direction. 00:59:31 – Gain insight into why treating a publisher as a partner strengthens both the work and the audience reach. About the Guest: Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond is the author of Powder Necklace: A Novel, the award-winning children's picture book Blue: A History of the Color as Deep as the Sea and as Wide as the Sky, the collection Relations: An Anthology of African and Diaspora Voices, and My Parents' Marriage: A Novel.  Tapped for her passion about Africa's rich fashion traditions and techniques, Brew-Hammond was commissioned by the curators of Brooklyn Museum's "Africa Fashion" exhibit to pen and perform an original poem for the museum's companion short film of the same name. In the clip, she wore a look from the made-in-Ghana lifestyle line she co-founded with her mother and sister, Exit 14. The brand was featured on Vogue.com. Every month, Brew-Hammond co-leads the Redeemed Writers Group whose mission is to write light into the darkness. Learn more about it here.Learn more at nanabrewhammond.com. Ways to connect with Nana**:** Instagram, Facebook and Threads: @nanaekuawriter Twitter: @nanaekua  www.NanaBrewHammond.com  ORDER my new novel   MY PARENTS' MARRIAGE Read 2023 NCTE Award Winner & NAACP Image Award Nominee   BLUE: A History of the Color as Deep as the Sea and as Wide as the Sky   Read RELATIONS: An Anthology of African and Diaspora Voices , stories, essays & poems by new and established Black writers   Shop Exit 14 , all weather, uniquely designed, 100% cotton apparel sustainably made in Ghana About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:20 And a pleasant, Good day to you all, wherever you happen to be, I would like to welcome you to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to have a conversation with Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond And Nana has a lot of interesting things to talk about. She's written books, she's done a variety of different things, and rather than me giving it all away, it'll be more fun to let her tell the stories and get a chance for us to listen to her. She is in Oakland, California, so she's at the other end of the state for me, and we were just comparing the weather. It's a lot colder where she is than where I live down here in Victorville, where today it's 104 degrees outside. And Nana, you said it was like, what, somewhere around 70. Yeah, it's 68 There you go. See lovely weather. Well, Nana, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here, and I want to thank you for taking the time to be with us. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  02:23 I feel the same way. Thank you for having me on your amazing show. And it's so wonderful to be in conversation with you. Michael Hingson  02:30 Well, I'm glad we get a chance to spend some time together and we can, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about and make it relevant and interesting. So we'll do that. Why don't we start with what I love to do at the beginning of these is to talk about the early Nana growing up and all that. So take us back as close to the beginning as your memory allows. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  02:52 Oh gosh, as my memory allows. Um, I so I was born in Plattsburgh, New York, which is upstate near Montreal, Canada. Michael Hingson  03:06 Been there. Oh, cool in the winter. I even crossed the lake in an icebreaker. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  03:12 But yeah, oh my gosh, wow. Okay, yeah. Bring back memories. Well, I was only there for till I was, like two years old. So, but I do, I have gone up there in the winter and it is cold. Yes, it is cold, yeah. So I was born there, but I grew up in New York City and had that really was sort of my life. I lived in New York, grew up in Queens, New York, and then at 12 years old, my parents decided to send me to Ghana to go to school. And that was sort of like a big, the biggest change of my life, like I know that there was a before Ghana and an after Ghana, Nana and so, yeah, wow. Michael Hingson  04:02 So, so when was that? What year was that that you went to Ghana? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  04:06 That was 1990 August of 1990 actually. Michael Hingson  04:11 So what did you think about going to Ghana? I mean, clearly that was a major change. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  04:15 Yeah, you know, I, you know, my parents are from Ghana originally. So when, you know, they would always talk about it. We, you know, back then phones, long distance phone calls to Ghana. I, you know, that was, that was the extent of my sort of understanding of Ghana, the food that we ate at home, etc. So going to Ghana was just sort of mind blowing to me, to sort of be crossing, you know, getting on a plane and all of that, and then being in the country that my parents had left to come to the United States, was just sort of like, oh, wow, connecting with family members. It was just, it was a lot. To process, because life was very, very, very, very different. So yeah, it was just sort of a wild eye opening experience about just the world and myself and my family that ultimately inspired me to write a book about it, because it was just, I just, it was a lot to process. Michael Hingson  05:25 Why did they want you to go to to Ghana to study? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  05:30 Yeah, so in the 90s, in New York City or and in the late 80s, there was the crack epidemic was happening, and we, you know, I mean, I remember, we lived in a house in Queens, and when we would, you know, part of our chores was to sweep in front of the house, you know, rake the leaves, that kind of thing in the fall. And we would, all the time there would be crack files, you know, like as we're sweeping up, and I didn't get there where we were young. My sister was, you know, a teenager. I was 12, and my, you know, my younger brother had just been born. He was just like a, like, a little under a year old. And I think my parents just didn't feel that it was a safe place for us as kids to grow up. And so, yeah, they wanted to kind of give us an opportunity to get out of, you know, that environment for a while. Michael Hingson  06:33 What did you think of it? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  06:35 I mean, you know, as a kid, you never want to leave what to you. So it was, I would say it was, it was, it was interesting. Because initially I loved it. I was like, I actually campaigned, you know, I was like, I really, you know, would like to stay in Ghana, but I didn't want to stay for, you know, the three years, which is what I what happened? I wanted to stay for maybe, like a year, kind of try it, you know, go to school for a year. I found it this really cool adventure, go to boarding school and on all of that. But my parents made the decision that we should just sort of ride it out and finish like I had to finish high school. And, yeah, so, so great for me. Michael Hingson  07:25 So you were there for three years, yes. So by you were 12, so by 15, you had finished high Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  07:32 school, yeah, because the system there is different. It's it was at the time the British system. So it was like a form system where I saw I entered in form three, because it was, it wasn't quite the equivalent in the sense that I probably should have started in form two or form one, but I was also an advanced student, and and they, the way the system there works is you have to take a common entrance exam from primary school to get into secondary school. So it's very difficult to get into school midstream there. So we had to go through all of these hoops. And, you know, there was an opening in form three, and that was higher than my, you know, than where I should have been, but I was advanced, so I was able to get into that school that way. You did okay. I assume I did. I mean, I struggled, which was interesting, because I was a very, you know, good, strong student in the States, but I struggled mightily when I first got there, and throughout, it was never easy, but I was able to manage. Michael Hingson  08:49 Now, did your sister also go to Ghana? She Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  08:52 did, and she was hopping mad. Michael Hingson  08:55 How old was she when you were 12, she was Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  08:59 17, so she Okay, yeah, almost about to go to college. She was really excited about, like, that portion of life. And then it was like, okay, she's in Ghana. She was hopping mad. Michael Hingson  09:13 Well, how long did she stay? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  09:16 Well, so she stayed for two years. Because what Ghana has is sort of like, at the time it was something called sixth form, which is, again, the British system. So it's sort of like a college prep in between the equivalent of that. So she basically did that in Ghana. Michael Hingson  09:38 Okay, well, and your little brother didn't go to Ghana, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  09:44 not yet, not not yet. You Michael Hingson  09:47 mean they didn't send him over at one year? No, okay, well, that's probably a good idea. Well, so looking back on it, what do you think about having spent three years in. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  10:00 Ghana, looking back on it, I think it was actually really, really good for me. I mean, it was that doesn't take away from the fact that it was very difficult. It was very, very challenging, not only academically. It was I was bullied really hard at this boarding school that I went to. The girls just kind of made my life hell. But what was amazing about it for me was that I had, I had exposure to Ghanaian culture in a way that I would never have had in the States. As I mentioned to you, Ghana was sort of that country over there when I lived in America. And you know, it existed as you know, family members coming to visit, long distance phone calls, the food that we ate, that you know, the accents that we had, things that made us different, and at the time, that was not cool. You know, as a kid, you just want to fit in and you don't want to be different. And going to Ghana was my opportunity to learn that, wow, I didn't have to be embarrassed or ashamed of that difference. There was so much to be proud of. You know, my family was, you know, a sprawling family, you know, my my grandmother owned a business, my grandfather owned a business, you know, it was, it was really, it was eye opening, just to sort of be in another environment. People knew how to, you know, pronounce my name, and I didn't have to, you know, just explain things. And that was really affirming for a 12 year old and a 13 year old when you're going through that, you know. So it was really good for me. And in Ghana is where I came to know Christ. I became a Christian, and it was something that spiritually, I was not really, I don't know, I just didn't really think about spiritual. I did on some level. But going to Ghana, it everything just felt so palpable. It was really like we're praying for this. And it happened, you know what I mean, like, yeah. It felt very Yeah. It was just a time in my life when life really felt very the mysteries of life really felt like they were open to me, Michael Hingson  12:37 interesting and so you clearly gained a lot of insight and knowledge and experience over there that you were able to bring back with you when you came Yes, yes. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  12:55 When I returned to the States, I was just, I think of myself, I guess, as a weirdo. Like, when I came back, I just felt so weird because I couldn't really, fully, you know, connect with my friends, because I had missed out on three years of culture, you know. And you You don't realize how much culture means, like, until, like, you know, you don't have those references anymore. I didn't know the songs that were popular. I didn't, you know, know about, I forget, there was some sort of genes that were really popular while I was gone. I didn't know what they were. I didn't have a pair of them. So it was just sort of this, this interesting time. And I was also young, because I had finished high school, and I was 15, yeah, my friends were, you know, sophomores, yeah, you know, and I was beginning the process of looking into college. So it was just a really isolating time for me and I, but also, you know, interesting and I, again, I say it was, it was ultimately in the in the wash of it. I think it was good because it enabled me to sort of, I guess, mature in a way that enabled me to start college earlier. And, you know, sort of see the world in a much different way. Michael Hingson  14:26 So when you went to college, what did you want to do? Or had you had you decided to start laying plans for a major and what you wanted to do post college, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  14:36 I did not know what I wanted to do. I kind of, I mean, I kind of thought I wanted to be a doctor. I thought I wanted to be a doctor. Like, all my life, growing up, I was like, I'm going to be a doctor. And I was a science student in Ghana, but I struggled mightily. But still, I went. I entered college with us. You know, the plans? To become a bio psychology major. And you know, I took two, three classes, well more than that, I did, like, a year of classes. And I was just like, This is not for me, not for me at all. But yeah, yeah. So it was, it was that was a little rough. Michael Hingson  15:21 Things happen. So what did? What did you go off and do? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  15:25 Then I ended up majoring in political science and Africana Studies, and it was, I remember taking a political science class my freshman year, and I, my my professor was amazing, but it was, it was interesting to me. I think looking back now, being able to think about the world in a way that was sort of linking history and politics and culture together. And I think that was interesting to me, because I had just come from Ghana and had been exposed to, like, sort of this completely different culture, completely different political system, and, you know, kind of having that, I that thinking, or that wonderment of like, wow, you can Life can be so different somewhere else, but it's still life, and it's still happening, but also having that connection as an American to America and what's happening there. And so holding both of those things in my hands when I got to college, I think I was, I just what I was really sort of intrigued by the idea of studying politics and studying culture and society, Michael Hingson  16:48 and that's what you did. Yes, I did. So you got a degree in political science. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  16:54 Yes, a double degree political science and Africana Studies. Michael Hingson  16:57 Africana Studies, okay, and again, that that's probably pretty interesting, because the the Ghana influence had to help with the Africana Studies, and the desire to to do that, and you certainly came with a good amount of knowledge that had to help in getting that as a part of your major. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  17:16 Well, interestingly, my focus was on African American Studies, because I really growing up as an immigrant, like with immigrant parents, their understanding or their their thought process wasn't necessarily, I don't know they weren't. They didn't really raise us to think about race or being black, because their consciousness wasn't about that. It was they were immigrants. You know what? I mean, they weren't thinking about that. So I was actually quite curious, because I did grow up in America and I was black, but I didn't understand, you know, the history of America in that way. And I remember, actually, when I was in was it the third or maybe it was the second or third grade, or maybe it was fifth grade. I did a project on the Civil War, and I remember being so interested in it, because I had, I just didn't, you know, it wasn't. I was so fascinated by American history because I really wasn't. I didn't, I didn't understand it in the way that maybe somebody who wasn't the child of immigrants, you know, might, you know, connect with it. So I was just Yeah, so I was really fascinated by African American history, so I ended up double majoring in it and concentrating on African American politics, which was really fascinating to me. Michael Hingson  18:55 Yeah, and there certainly has been a fair amount of that over the years, hasn't there? Yes, there has, but you can, you can cope with it and and again. But did your time in Ghana, kind of influence any of what you did in terms of African American Studies? Did it help you at all? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  19:15 Um, I, I don't know, because I don't because, because I think what, what I what, what Ghana helped me with was, I remember, I'll say this. I remember one time in Ghana, in class, we were reading a book by an author who had we were reading a play, actually by a Ghanaian writer who was writing about a Ghanian man who married an African American woman and brought her to his home. And there was a lot of clash between them, because, you know, they were both black, but they had different sort of backgrounds. Yeah, and I remember the teacher asking, because the. The the wife that he brought home, the African American woman, mentioned certain things about America, and no one in the classroom could answer any questions about America, and I was the only one who could. And I was, you know, very, very sort of shy in that in that school and in that context. But I remember that day feeling so emboldened, like I was, like, I can actually contribute to this conversation. And so maybe, you know, in on some level, when I got back to the states, maybe there was some interest in linking those two things together. But it wasn't as as is in life. It wasn't obvious to me. Then it was sort of just kind of me following my interest and curiosity. And I ended up, I didn't set out to be an Africana Studies double major, but I ended up taking so many classes that I had the credits. And, you know, I was like, Okay, I guess I'm I have two degrees now, or two, two concentrations, Michael Hingson  21:02 yeah, did you go and do any advanced work beyond getting bachelor's degrees? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  21:08 No, I did not. When I graduated, I initially thought I might get interested, get in, go to law school. But this was me again, following my muse. I realized that my real interest was in writing papers when I was in college. You know, give me a 15 page paper, 20 page paper, I was ecstatic. I loved writing papers. And I think that's one of the reasons, too, why I loved political science and Africana Studies, because we were assigned tons of papers, and it enabled me to sort of, you know, writing these papers enabled me to kind of think through questions that I had, or process what I was reading or thinking about or feeling. And so when I graduated from college, you know, I got, you know, a job, and was working, trying to figure out, Okay, do I want to go to law school? But at the time that I graduated, that was also during the time of, like, the.com boom, and there were a lot of online magazines that were looking for writers, and so I started, kind of, you know, submitting, and I got some some things published. And as that was happening, I was like, I think this is what I want to focus on. Michael Hingson  22:30 So when did you really know that you were a writer? Then? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  22:34 I mean, I don't I think that when I got back, when I started working, so I, ultimately, I got a job in advertising, and I was working, you know, as an assistant in the on the account side of things, but there was this whole creative department that, you know, got to, you know, come up with all of the, you know, the the taglines and write commercials and write jingles and all that kind of stuff. And I was, like, so fascinated by that, and that's what I thought, okay, I could if you know, I need a job, I need money, and I want to write, so maybe this is what I need to be doing. And so I ultimately did get a job as a copywriter and and I still, you know, do that work today, but I think I always knew that I needed to write, and I wanted to actually write about my experience in Ghana. So I remember, you know, I started kind of very fledgling. Would began to write into that, and I ultimately started writing that the book that became my first book, powder necklace, on the subway to and from work. Every morning I would wake up very early, write what I could get ready for work, right on the bus, right on the subway, you know, get to work after work. You know, repeat. And it took me many years, but that's what I did. And I wrote my first book, Michael Hingson  24:14 and that was published in 2010 right? Yes, it was, did you self publish? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  24:18 Or I well, I did not self publish. I was published by Simon and Schuster. Simon and Schuster's Atria Books, Washington Square press. And part of my process was I started just kind of, you know, the Internet. The Internet was new. It was something that was available to me. So I started just kind of Googling, how do you get published? And they said you needed a literary agent. So I started looking online for literary agents. And because I lived in New York City at the time, I would literally write my my query letters and like, hand deliver them different agencies. 90s, and one woman, after four years of looking, said, Okay, this sounds interesting. I'd love to meet with you. And I didn't believe. I was like, wow, I've been rejected for four years, and somebody actually wants this, and she was able to sell the book. And I was shocked. I was like, Simon and sister, okay? And at the time they bought it, the, you know, the America, the US, was going through the whole financial, you know, crisis, the recession, in 2008 so they held my book for a year, and then we began the process in 2009 and then they, you know, we were on track to publish it in 2010 Michael Hingson  25:46 Wow. Well, tell me about that book. Yeah. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  25:51 Powder necklace is a novel. It's a fictionalized account of my experience going to high school in Ghana. I when I went to school in Ghana. I went to a girls boarding school in the mountains of Ghana central region, and that school was going through a major water crisis. We did not, I mean, we the short story is that, I guess, because of we were on the mountain, the water pressure was very low, and so it was really difficult to get the water up that mountain. And they didn't have like enough, you know, tanks around the school and what have you. So we had one artificial well, and then we had, like, an underground well, and that was it. And the underground well wasn't always, you know, full of water to service the whole school. It was really difficult. So, you know, we had to bring in our own water, some. And then it became, if you had money, you could bring water. But if you didn't have money, you didn't and it was a very desperate time for for young girls without being not being able to take a shower on demand. And it was, it was wild. Michael Hingson  27:15 Where does the title powder necklace come from? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  27:19 So the title, I named it powder necklace, because, as I mentioned, taking a shower became this like symbol of the haves and the have nots. And, you know, all of this having water, really. And if so, what, what the girls, what we would do is, you know, after you've taken a bath, people would put tons of powder on their necks. And it was sometimes it was okay we didn't take a bath, so we're going to put powder on our necks to scented powder to cover the odor. But it was also a way, like if you had bathed, to sort of, you know, show off that you'd bathed. So for me, it was as I was reflecting on the on this as I was writing this story and reflecting on that whole experience, I thought, wow, it was sort of our way of holding our heads up, you know, in the difficult situation, and kind of making the best of it. So that's why I called it powder necklace, Michael Hingson  28:17 okay? And that was for children. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:20 Well, it was for young adults, young adults, but Michael Hingson  28:25 it was more writing than pictures. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:27 Yeah, it was a young adult novel. I actually, I mean, this was my first book. I really didn't know what I was doing. I just, I wrote the book and I didn't know that it was a young adult novel, until people were like, Yeah, you wrote a young adult novel. I'm like, okay, Michael Hingson  28:47 works for me. Well, what does, what does being a writer mean to you? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:54 Um, I think being a writer means to me being able to articulate. A time, a place, a mood, a moment, being able to articulate it, one for myself, but also to create a record that helps people who don't necessarily have that gift to be able to sort of put words to the experience of living at a time place, having a certain feeling about something. Michael Hingson  29:34 Do you think there's a difference between being considered a writer and being an author, are they the same, or are they really different? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  29:45 I do think that there is a difference, and not in a sort of, you know, highfalutin way. I think the difference is the fact that when you I think, like, when you asked me initially, like, when do you think that you you became. Became a writer. My My instinct is to say that I think I was always a writer, because I think if you write, you're a writer. And whether you're published or not, you're a writer. If you have that inclination, that gift, and you sort of invest in that gift, and invest and develop it. I think you're a writer, but I think with an author, I think then that's to me. I think of it as the business of being a writer, or the business of being, yeah, you are now sort of in business with your publisher. Publisher has invested a certain amount in you, and it then becomes a more sort of public facing thing. The work is not just for you anymore. The work is now being disseminated to a group and hopefully to as many people as possible, and you as the writer now have to figure out, like, how do I get to my audience? How do I maximize or expand the reach of this thing that I wrote? How do I connect with people around the story and build build a readership. And how do I ultimately, you know, the my desire and goal would be to live off of this. How do I make turn this into something that I can, I can do, you know, full time and live off of Michael Hingson  31:38 so you turn from a writer to being an author. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  31:42 I'm, yes, I am an author, and I'm and I'm hoping to get to the to the, you know, the point where I can do it 100% full time, and it be, you know, 100% lucrative in that way. Michael Hingson  31:56 So what are you doing now? In addition to doing books, I Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:01 also freelance as a copywriter, so I'm still copywriting, Michael Hingson  32:05 okay, I was wondering what you what you did? So you're doing, still marketing and jingles and all those things, yeah, well, I Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:13 I'm my focus. I do do that, but my focus is mainly in the digital space. So I write lots of websites and web ads and social media copy, and, you know, things of that nature, campaign work. Michael Hingson  32:33 Well, that's, is there anything that you've written or copy written that we would all know, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:42 yeah, I mean, I did. I've done a lot. I guess the maybe the most recent thing that I've done that people might be aware of, or some people might be aware of, is the Brooklyn Museum in New York, did a an exhibition called Africa fashion. And I, they created a short film to promote it, and I, they commissioned me to write an original piece for it. And so I wrote that piece and and performed it in the film. So, you know, people who are into that kind of thing a museum, that that museum might be aware of it. But I've also written for, I did a lot of work for L'Oreal Paris, USA, and I've just done a lot of beauty work. So many of the beauty brands you might be aware, you know, you might know, I've done some work for them, cool. Michael Hingson  33:45 Well, that, you know, you do have to do things to earn an income to to be able to afford to write until you can do it full time. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  33:53 Yeah, yeah. And I actually really love copywriting. I think it's an it's been an incredible teacher in the sense of how to how to crystallize an idea in very short, you know, in just a few words, how to convey emotion in just a few words. And also that storytelling is not just the words, it's how you deliver the story that's all part of it. So I think it's been an incredible teacher in that way. Michael Hingson  34:28 I know for me as a speaker, it is how you tell the story. And I've learned over 23 and a half years of speaking how to take people inside the World Trade Center and actually have them travel with me and do all the things that, and experience all the things that that I went through, and then come out of the other side and I and I say that because so many people after I speak somewhere, well. Come up and say, we were with you in the building. We were with you with everything that you did. And I appreciate that there is a real significant art to storytelling, and part of it is also, and I'm sure that this is true for you as a writer and an author, that part of it has to be that you have to actually connect with the audience. You've got to understand the audience. You've got to connect with them, and you have to bring them along, because they're not expecting to go with you. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  35:33 Absolutely, absolutely. And I will say that I started one of your books just the beginning of it, and I was just running with Roselle, and I was so taken, so absorbed by the first few pages of it. You really do immerse us. And I think that that's the best kind of of writing. You know, when you're able to kind of present material that people may or may not be familiar with, and make it riveting and really bring us into it, and then have us invest being, feel invested well. Michael Hingson  36:16 And I think the last book that we did last year live like a guide dog. I worked really hard to make sure that we were drawing people into the experiences, because every chapter is actually taking lessons from one of my guide dogs and also from Fantasia, which who is my wife's service dog, but each chapter relates to one of those dogs, and I wanted them to be environments where people again were drawn in and appreciate the dogs for what they are and what they do, not just some dumb Animal that comes along. Yeah. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  37:00 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, so interesting. I think there's, there's so much, I guess. I don't want to use the word, I guess what I want to say, there's a lot of mystery in in the sort of human animal interaction, and people just aren't aware of how powerful it is, and I can, I'm saying that I speak for myself, because growing up, actually, I was really, really scared of dogs and animals, all animals, and I so there's, there's two, there's kind of two stories I'll share. But one is when we were, when we were growing up, my parents, you know, were from Ghana. They wanted to eat goat meat. And at the time, you couldn't just go to a supermarket goat meat. So we used to go to a farm out in New Jersey that had goats, and we would have to go and have the goat, you know, slaughtered and, you know, cut up and all that kind of stuff for the meat. And I remember that whenever the hand would go into, you know, the pen where the goats were, the goats would just were. They would be so stressed out, they would like, you know, part like the ocean walked in, and if he picked, when he picked one out. There would be other people, other goats in the pen that would start screaming in agony, along with the goat that had been picked out. And I was just like, Oh my gosh. That must be his family members, like, or his loved ones. And it was so I remember that was so eye opening to me, like, wow. So I ended up years, years later, I wrote a short story, and I actually did some research on goats and how brilliant they are, and I was just like, wow, oh my goodness, I remember that so well. But I have a cat right now, and my kitty cat is just such a such a joy, like just sort of to build that relationship with, with my with my pet, is just such a beautiful thing, and how she just kind of, because I grew up really scared of pets, and I sort of inherited her when I got when I got married, you know, she's been very patient with me, like, because at first I was so skittish around her, and I could see her, kind of like rolling her eyes, like, I mean, you no harm. You can pick me up. It's all good. And she's just been so wonderfully patient with me. We've built that bond over time. Michael Hingson  39:31 Well, yeah, I have, of course, my my eighth guy, dog, Alamo, and stitch the cat. Stitch is 15 and a half and a real cutie pie. We rescued her. Actually, there were people who were living next to us, and he was moving out. His wife had died, and he just told the people who were moving all of his stuff out, take the cat to the pound. I don't want anything to do with it. And we, we said, Absolutely not. We'll find it a home. And then I asked, What the. Cat's name was, and they told me the cat's name was stitch. And I knew that this cat wasn't going to go anywhere because my wife had been, well, my wife had been a quilter since 1994 and a quilter is never going to give away a cat named stitch. Yes. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  40:14 Oh, I'm so glad stitch found a home with you. Michael Hingson  40:18 Oh, yeah. Well, we found a stitch. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  40:20 Oh, that's right, that's right. Michael Hingson  40:23 And, and, and so she's, she's got lots of personality. And so it really works out pretty well. No, no complaints. And I've always said, Whenever I get a guide dog, because my wife has always had cats, when I get a new guide dog, I've always said, and will continue to say, it has to be a dog that's been raised around cats and has no problems with cats. I have seen a couple of Guide Dogs, actually, that hated cats, and one almost killed a cat, and that's I will never tolerate that. Yeah, they have to get along. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely now, when we brought Alamo home, stitch had a few concerns about this dog in her house. She got over it when she decided that Alamo wasn't going to do anything to bother her and they they talk all the time now and rub noses and all that sort of stuff. Oh, that's so cool, yeah, but, but it's, it is great, and they, they bring so much joy and so many lessons to us that I think it was really important to learn. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  41:34 Yeah, yeah. You're reminding me the first dog, because my grandmother actually loves animals, and when I went to Ghana, she got a dog, and, you know, as a kid, so we got a puppy. And I remember the puppy was initially supposed to be a guard dog, but we I, I would feed the I would hand feed the dog sausages and just spoil the dog so much. Could not be a guard dog, so I loved that dog. Joshua, yeah, Joshua, Michael Hingson  42:07 well, but you and Joshua got along really well. On we got along great. One of the things that people sometimes ask me is if my dog trained to protect and the answer is no, they're not trained, and then they've said, Well, what would happen if somebody were to decide to attack you with the dog around? And my response will always be and rightly so, I wouldn't want to be the person to try that and find out what will happen, because much more than guarding, there's love. And I've always believed that dogs love unconditionally. I think trusting is a different story. They are open to trust, but, but you have to earn their trust. They'll love you, but will they trust you? That depends on you. And so it's it's really pretty cool, but I would not want to be the person to ever decide to try to attack us, because I, I am sure that Alamo would not tolerate that at all. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  43:10 Oh, not at all. How do, how do you or how have you built trust with your your pets? Michael Hingson  43:17 Well, a lot of it has to do with they want us to be the pack leaders. They want us to be their team leader. And so I have to set the ground rules. So, for example, no jumping on the furniture and all that. But again, it's also how you convey that. So if my dog is going to jump up on something and I don't want that, I'll say, leave it. And as soon as the dog obeys, I'll give the dog a food reward, a kibble, to let the dog know, and I'll also use a clicker, but I'll let the dog know I approve of what you did, not punishing them for, you know, something else. Yeah, so it's not punishment, it's positive rewards. I think that's extremely important, but also it is in the stressful times being very focused and calm. So if we're walking somewhere and we get lost, that is not the dog's fault, because it's my job to know where to go and how to get where I'm going, and it's the dog's job to make sure that we walk safely to get there, so if we get lost, that's on me. And what I can't do, or shouldn't do, is panic and become very fearful and upset, because the dog will sense that I have to stop and figure it out and continue to praise the dog, saying what a good job you're doing, and so on. And those kinds of things are the things that will, over time, build that trust. I think it takes a good year to truly build a trusting relationship that is second. To none. And that's the kind of teaming relationship that you want, whether it's a guide dog or any dog. And even as far as that goes, although they're different cats, yeah, but it's, it's all about building that relationship and conveying the command and conveying that you want to trust and be trusted? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  45:24 Yeah, yeah. I think you're you. What you said that really resonated with me is that they want to know. They want you to be the pack leader and the and part of that is, you know, you lay down the ground rules, but also you're responsible for them and their well being. And, yeah, that really, that really resonated with me. Michael Hingson  45:48 Well, so you wrote your first book, and then when did you write your second book? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  45:55 My second book came out in 2022, so it was a 12 year spread in my first book and my second book, Why so long? Oh my gosh, my book, I was the book I was working on, like to sort of follow, was just rejected for, for all that whole time, and I was, you know, in more and more distraught, and, you know, in despair about it. I didn't know what to do about it. And I actually, you know, I was actually reading the Bible, and I came across the fact that there was a curtain, a blue curtain, in King Solomon's temple. And I was like, why does it matter that the curtain was blue? And so I just started googling casually, and I discovered that there was a snail in antiquity that was harvested for the blue drops that it it secreted, or it secreted drops that were ultimately oxidized to turn blue. And I was like, what I've never heard about this? I started doing some more research, and I realized, like, oh my gosh, the color blue has such a fascinating history. Kids need to know about this. And so I wrote it really as a poem initially, but then I thought, you know, I really want to see if I can get this published. And I was able to get it published, and that became my children's book blue, which was such a bomb to my soul, because after sort of a decade of getting, you know, rejected, and, you know, close to a decade of getting rejected, this, this sort of beautiful, like, sort of knowledge, you know, I came across, But I was able to create a book, and it's just been a wonderful experience with the children's Michael Hingson  47:45 book, wow, so the full title of blue is, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  47:51 it's blue a history of the color as deep as the sea and as wide as the sky. Wow. Michael Hingson  47:57 That should be enough to get the book sold. But as you point out, there's, there's a lot of history, yes, and that, that's pretty cool. So it was, it was released in 2022 and they finally, the publishers finally bought into that, huh? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  48:16 Well, yeah, I mean, that wasn't the novel that I've been working on. So I was still working. I ultimately, I did sell the novel, but that was its own journey, and I ended up writing another book that became the book is called my parents marriage, and it is not about my actual parents marriage. It's a novel about a young woman for adult readers. It's my first book for adult readers, and it is about a young woman whose parents are in a polygamous union, and how they're they have a really turbulent polygamous union, and how that relationship kind of kind of cast a shadow on this woman's, you know, choices in relationships and marriage for herself. Michael Hingson  49:10 So you you publish that my parents marriage. You also did a collection relations. Tell me about relationships. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  49:18 I did. Yeah, so relations is an anthology of its stories, essays and poems that are by writers from all across the continent of Africa. So I have Egyptian poets and Libyan you know essayists and you know, Nigerian storytellers, just it was, it was a really amazing project to work on. I started working on it during August of 2020, which was sort of like I've heard it described as peak pandemic, right? You know, we were several months. Into lockdown, and you know, it became this wonderful way for me to kind of connect while I was sort of holed up in my apartment in New York. Michael Hingson  50:15 Okay, now, were you married by then? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  50:18 No, I was not. I had just started dating my now husband, and I was like, Am I ever gonna see this man again? Because he lived in California, so at that time, the planes were grounded. I remember we were, like, on the first, very first flights that were able to start, you know, that started and be on planes, there'd be like, four people on the entire plane. Michael Hingson  50:42 Yeah, hopefully you both weren't on planes going against each other at the same time. No, you did communicate a little more than that. Oh, good. Well, so you published. So when was well? What was relations published? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  51:02 Relations came out in 2023 okay, February of 2023, and my parents marriage came out in July of 2024. Just came out in July of 2025, Michael Hingson  51:14 which one the paperback of the paperback? Oh, okay. Have any of them been converted to audio Yes, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  51:23 all, but my first book, are audio books. So blue is an audio book, beautifully read, and then their relations, the stories and essays and poems are read by two speaking artists, and then my parents, marriage is is also wonderfully performed. So, yeah, they're all an audience. Michael Hingson  51:50 That's cool, yeah. So when you're writing, what, what's kind of the difference, or, how do you differentiate between writing for young people and writing for adults. There must be differences. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  52:07 Yeah, I think, I think with for young people, and the practical thing that I try to do is make sure that the vocabulary is are is familiar to them, mostly familiar. I like to put in a stretch word now and then to kind of get them to, like, get to the dictionary and find out what. But if I'm right, when I when I wrote blue, for example, knowing that, you know, the the age group is, the age spread is four to 888, year olds are in third grade. Four year olds are in pre K, so that's that's pretty big spread. So my sweet spot is first and second grade vocabulary words. Okay, it has to be something that they've been exposed to. So thinking of it in that way, the other thing too is breaking down concepts that are, you know, as adults, you know, we just assume that you know, or you can go look it up, but just kind of thinking it through. So if I'm talking about, instead of saying that, you know, there was a snail in antiquity who, you know, heart, you know, dyers were harvesting blue dye from these snails through after a process of oxidation. I wouldn't use any of those words. I would say, snail produced some drops that when exposed to the air and the sun turned blue. And so just sort of really, kind of being mindful of that, and also thinking very visually, writing, very visually. How can I create pictures with words that would be familiar to a child, that can sort of ignite their imagination? Michael Hingson  53:53 Yeah, I think it's extremely important to to deal with the visual aspects of it, but using words and really drawing again, drawing people in because if you just say, well, you can see this in this picture. That doesn't mean a lot, and you're also, I would think, helping to teach or create the concept that some people might some children might want to go off and write because they like how you say and what you say Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  54:24 absolutely and when I when I talk to kids, I go or visit schools, I invite them like I wrote about the color blue. What's your favorite color? These are some some things that I did to kind of learn about it. You can do these things to learn about your favorite color and write your own book? Michael Hingson  54:42 Yeah, yeah, it's, I think, so important to really draw people in and get them to think. And I think it's so much fun for me, I do some of that, but I have probably more of a chance. Challenge, because kids want to play with the dog. Yeah, it's all about the dog. I did a lecture at a K through six elementary school in San Francisco several years ago. I'm trying to remember what school it was anyway, and the teacher said you can only talk for about 10 or 12 minutes, because they just won't pay attention any longer than that. 35 minutes later, I finally ended the discussion, because they were so fascinated to hear me talk about what my dog did. And then I carried that over to how blind people work and function and all that. And the fact is, they were fascinated. The teachers couldn't believe it, but for me, it was a great lesson to know that it's all about creating these pictures that people can follow, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  55:53 yeah, and also to extending those pictures or those words into an experience for kids. Yeah, they really, they really appreciate, sort of like seeing it, kind of, you know, see if the having the concept come to life, yeah, way. And so I'm sure when they see your dog, or are able to interact with your dog, that must be so wonderful for them, Michael Hingson  56:22 but it's important for them to understand what the dog is all about. So by the time they get to interact with the dog, we've talked about things like, you never pet a guide dog in harness. This is what a guide dog does, and this is what they don't do. There are a lot of things to to cover. So it's great when I have the opportunity to really teach them. And sometimes we'll walk around a classroom and I'll show them what he does. Yeah, it's important to be able to do that. Oh, I love that. I love that. And he loves it, of course, all the way. So no question about that. He's you haven't lived until you've seen two or 300 kids all wanting to pet this dog. And the dog knows what to do. He's down on the floor with every appendage stretched out as far as he can go to maximize petting places, petting. Oh, it is so funny. I love that. He loves it. He's, he's, he's so happy. He doesn't care whether he'll do it more with kids even than adults, but, yeah, he'll do it with everybody. It's all about petting me and just remembering I'm the dog. I love that. Well, you've gone through a fair amount of time between books, and I'm sort of curious, what do you think about all the various kinds of changes and ebbs and flows that have come along in the book business, in the book publishing business and so on. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  57:56 Yeah, there have been a lot of changes. Um, I think, um, when my first book came out, like things like, you know, Instagram Bookstagram did not exist. There weren't many sort of podcasts or things of that nature. So I think that there is, there's definitely, there are more venues and more platforms to, you know, get the message out about the book. But I think also there is, it's also just hard. It's in some ways, it also feels in some ways more challenging to get the word out, because in addition to, like, yes, there are more venues in that way, regard, there are fewer book reviewers and fewer places to get a book reviewed, and there's a whole kind of interesting business about around getting reviews. So it's just not the same in that way. But then at the same time. I think what remains the same is connecting with readers. I think the most effective thing is, you know, writing a book that's good and then getting people who have read it and liked it to evangelize, to tell people I liked it, please buy it, or you should have you heard of and because at the end of the day, you know, that's what's going to, you know, give it some wind Michael Hingson  59:30 when thunder dog came out, and we did mention about reviews, and it actually has had, like well over 1600 reviews since it came out in 2011 live like a guide dog hasn't had, of course, so many yet, but every time I get a chance to talk about that book, I ask people to go review it and tell them why it's so important, because potential readers want to know what people think of the book. Yeah, for sure. For sure, it's. It really is important for readers to review and just be honest and say what you think. It's fine, but people should do that. For me, I think one of the biggest things that I see that publishers are doing less of is in a lot of ways, true marketing. You don't, you know, you don't see them doing nearly as much. Of course, I know it's more expensive, but to help create book tours or anything like that, they focus only on social media, and that's not the way to market the book. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:00:33 Yeah, I think, I mean, I've never worked inside a publishing office, so I don't know what actually, how they make these decisions and what goes on, but I do. I think what I have come to sort of think, how I've come to think of it, is the publisher is my business partner, sort of invested in terms of, they've given me an advance. They're going to do the turn key things like, you know, make sure the book gets reviewed by Publishers Weekly, or, sorry, Publishers Marketplace, or no Publishers Weekly. I was correct, and Kirkus review, Kirkus right, and all those kinds of things. And maybe they'll do a mailing to you know who they believe are the people that they need to mail it to. But outside of that, unless you know you, you know it's stipulated in your contract, or you know you are that high, yeah, you know that that celebrity author, or that that best selling author that they you know, are willing to put that money behind. You're working with some your publicist, who's been assigned to your book has is probably working on 10 other books. Can devote so much to it. And so what I've learned is thankful. I'm thankful that, you know, I have this publisher, but I also know that I need to do a lot of work on my own to get Michael Hingson  1:02:04 you've got to be your best marketer, yes, but, but there's value in that too, because you can tell the story whatever it is, like no one else, exactly, exactly. And so that's that's really pretty important, yeah, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:02:18 for sure, for sure. And you can be, you know that I think, also giving yourself permission to be creative, yeah, you know, how can you get the word out in really creative ways, like, again, the publisher. These are things that like, if there was, you know, people, there were many people dedicated to your book for this amount of time, they could kind of sit there and brainstorm and do all those things. But, you know, the reality is, in most cases, it's a small it's a lean and mean team. They don't have that bandwidth, so yeah, just kind of coming up with creative ways. And at times, what I have learned to do is, how can I, if I have an idea that is maybe low cost and but I can't necessarily do it on my own? How can I ask them for support, because they do have, you know, a little bit more resources, Michael Hingson  1:03:16 yeah, and, and the how is really pretty simple. Actually, you just ask exactly, exactly, and you know either they will or they won't, or you'll share it, or whatever. And I have found that same thing to be true. Well, Nana, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? If they might want to talk about you doing copywriting for them or whatever, how can people find you? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:03:41 So my website is Nana brew-hammond.com, can you spell please? It's n, a n, a, b, r, e, w, H, A, M, M, O, N, d.com, and I have a newsletter there. So a newsletter sign up. So they can sign up to be a part of my newsletter and connect with me that way. They can also find me on Instagram, I'm at n, a, n, a, e, K, U, a writer on Instagram, and I'm also on Facebook at that same name, and then on Twitter, I am that without the writer. So, n, a, n, a, e, K, U, a, Michael Hingson  1:04:28 okay, cool. Well, I hope people will reach out and and I hope that they will read your books and like them and review them. I hope the same thing. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching us today. We really appreciate you being here with us. I'd love to hear what you think. Please feel free to email me. I'm reachable at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I. B, e.com, Michael H i@accessibe.com love to hear your thoughts and love to get your your opinions. I would really appreciate it if you would give us a five star rating when you have the opportunity to review this podcast. We really value your ratings and reviews very highly, and definitely want to know what you think, but please give us a great rating. We love that. If you know anyone who wants to be a guest on a podcast, or you think ought to be a guest, we're always looking for guests. And Nana you as well. If you know anyone, we're always looking for more people to come on the podcast and tell their stories. So we appreciate it. If you'd let us know. By the way, you can also go to my podcast page, www dot Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s o n.com/podcast, that's another way to reach out to me as well. But definitely anything you can do to bring more folks to us, we value it very highly. And so with that, once again, Nana, I want to thank you for being here. This has been great. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:06:01 Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on, and you are such an inspiration. And thank you. Michael Hingson  1:06:13 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Justice Secretary David Lammy has announced plans for a sweeping range of reforms to criminal courts in England and Wales. The proposals include scrapping jury trials for cases where sentences are likely to be less than three years and for trials involving ‘particularly technical and lengthy fraud and financial offences'. They will only be kept for the most serious offences, including murder, robbery and rape. However there are fears that the proposed changes will have a disproportionate impact on women, whether as victims or when accused of a crime and then particularly for women of colour. Nuala McGovern discusses the reforms with Fiona Rutherford, Chief Executive of legal reform charity Justice, barrister Emma Torr, Co-chief of Appeal, a law practice dedicated to challenging wrongful convictions, and Val Castell, Deputy National Chair of the Magistrates' Association. A petition has been launched calling for a national endometriosis registry to track and audit data on diagnosis, treatment and surgery outcomes. It's been spearheaded by Jessica Smith, who, like an estimated one and a half million women in the UK, suffers with endometriosis, a condition which occurs when the tissue, similar to the lining of the uterus, grows in other places, such as the ovaries and the fallopian tubes. Campaigners say the level of care is a post code lottery, with long wait lists and that by streamlining this information some of the gaps in care could be eliminated. Jessica joins Nuala along with Professor Ranee Thakar, President of the Royal College of Gynaecologists and Obstetricians.The Women's Institute has announced a big change - from next April it will no longer offer membership to transgender women. The UK Supreme Court earlier this year ruled that the legal definition of a woman can only be based on biological sex. This comes the day after it was announced that transgender girls can no longer join the Girl Guides, Brownies or Rainbows. The Women's Institute says it's decision comes with the ‘utmost regret.' Melissa Green, Chief Executive of the National Federation of Women's Institutes explains why they came to this decision. The BBC's political correspondent Phil Sim gives the background.Do you like everything to be perfect for Christmas dinner party hosting – the spotless house, the elaborate menu, the Instagram-worthy table setting? But what if the secret to a great dinner party isn't perfection, but scruffy hosting – a trend that is apparently transforming the way we gather together and makes stress-free dinner parties more attainable - perhaps a one-pot dinner, mismatched cutlery, toys under the table or children running around screaming. Helen Thorn, Comedian, Podcaster and one half of Scummy Mummies tells Nuala why she embraces this type of hosting. Presenter: Nuala McGovern Producer: Andrea Kidd

Burnout shows up quietly, and in this conversation, I think you will hear just how deeply it can shape a life. When I sat down with Kassandra Hamilton, she opened up about building a meaningful career in global and Indigenous health while struggling with exhaustion, anxiety, and the pressure to look like everything was fine. Her turning point came when she finally stopped long enough to ask what she truly needed. Kassandra talks about people pleasing, giving her power away, and the inside out process she now teaches to help others realign their lives. We walk through the RAIN method, the importance of boundaries, and the small daily choices that help you rebuild trust in yourself. My hope is that you walk away feeling grounded, encouraged, and ready to take one step toward a more aligned and Unstoppable life. Highlights: 01:12 – Learn how early purpose can quietly shape the path you follow. 02:51 – See how a wider view of global health reveals what truly drives burnout. 06:56 – Understand how systems and technology can add pressure when they overlook human needs. 12:50 – Learn how hidden emotions can surface when you slow down and pay attention. 17:37 – Explore how reclaiming your power shifts the way you respond to stress. 24:23 – Discover how emotional regulation tools help you move through difficult moments. 41:18 – Learn how small, steady changes rebuild energy and direction. 47:36 – Understand why real burnout recovery starts with alignment, not escape. About the Guest: Kassandra Hamilton is an alignment life coach, bestselling author in 3 categories, musician, healer, and facilitator.  She is dedicated to helping others find inner alignment and live from the inside out, rather than in a burnout state or in autopilot mode. After completing a degree in biology and international development, and then completing a Masters of Science, she wanted to pursue a career in medicine.  She has always wanted to be of service to others, and as a child she literally had dreams of holding her hands towards people and visualizing light being sent to them. only way it made sense in terms of a traditional career trajectory while she was in school was to pursue medicine.  After completing her Masters degree, she decided to work alongside doctors to see what their day to day was like and how they were creating a positive impact in their communities.  What she actually saw was a lot of burnout, paperwork, and dissatisfied lives of people that were once passionate about medicine. She was working for Doctors of BC in Vancouver, with a high end office and apartment, when she collapsed one day in her apartment from an overwhelming sense of anxiety, burnout and grief.  She had lost her dog, her boyfriend, and both her grandparents all within three months.  On top of that, she was in a career that looked good on paper, but wasn't actually fulfilling her purpose of being of service to others. She no longer wanted to pursue medicine and didn't know how she got to a dead end if she had followed all the “right” steps according to society's blueprint for success. She spent the next few years really learning about her inner world and what her purpose in life was. She became dedicated to her own healing and coping with anxiety and burnout.  For the next decade, she began working with First Nations across Canada. She witnessed and learned about the importance of looking at the whole person, from a spiritual, mental, emotional, and physical lens.  Everything seemed to be connected.  As someone with a science background, she had always been fascinated with the intricacies and magical elements of everything that comes together in one singular cell.  Our emotions are energy in motion, and if they don't move through, they get stuck.  We decide if we allow our emotions to flow or not.  Kassandra also realized how powerful our minds are.  With one thought, we create a story.  That story becomes our reality.  With all of these realizations, she came to understand that we are literally magicians of our own realities. Kassandra has learned and experienced, time and time again, that health and happiness stems from our internal world first and is a combination of our mental, spiritual, physical, and emotional realms.  Once we deal with our inner worlds and live in state of awareness over how we are operating in the world, we can project that version of ourselves out into the world to create positive change.  In a world that constantly pulls us outward - with notifications, expectations, distractions “The Magic of Realigning From the Inside Out” is about bringing us back home to ourselves.  Through deeply personal storytelling, scientific insights, and soul-centres practiced, Kassandra invites readers to reconnect with their inner compass.  This is a guidebook for anyone longing to move from autopilot to alignment and discovering what it truly means to live with intention, purpose, and clarity. Because the answers aren't out there, they HAVE to start from within.  We weren't meant to just get through the day. It is exhausting trying to fix and control everything “OUT THERE.” And the thing is, we have no control over what's happening out there anyways, We were meant to thrive and share our gifts with the world.  This is how positive ripple effects are made.  This is Kassandra plans to leave the world a better place, and support others to do the same.   With the external chaos, political mess, climate change, and growing tensions worldwide, She decided it was time to start creating some positive changes. She now has started a coaching practice committed to sharing her work with others, and her book compliments her work, outlining a 4-phase approach to moving from anxiety, fear, burnout, to living in alignment and inner power.  After a very successful book tour showcasing her bestseller (in 3 categories) “The Magic of Realigning From the Inside Out” – she is going on tour.  But this isn't just any book tour – it is centred around creating community connections.  She will be doing wellness workshops and talks in local libraries, bookstores, and wellness venues around burnout prevention, boundaries, resilience, and authentic leadership, leveraging my book as a tool for this. She is currently in the planning stages and open to support in making this happen. Kassandra is dedicated to sharing stories that inspire personal development and growth. She brings a unique perspective to storytelling, blending data-driven insights with narrative. With years of experience in health information management projects with First Nations communities in Canada, she has become fascinated with the power of sharing compelling stories through complex qualitative data.  Her book is titled “The Magic of Realigning From the Inside Out” and is now available on Amazon and 50+ more platforms. Outside of writing, she loves traveling, dancing, hiking, paddleboarding, and putting on community events that promote inner healing and connection.  She also provides sound healing sessions, Ayurvedic Head Massage, and Bio-Energy Healing sessions at a local wellness establishment in her community.  She volunteers at Connective Society as a restorative justice mentor for youth who are struggling with a lack of leadership or role models in their life. Lastly, Kassandra is a singer/songwriter and a musician.  You can find her playing at local open mics, hosting backyard community jam sessions, or at gigs around Vancouver Island. She put out an EP under the artist name “Kazz” in 2018 called “Reflections” and has released 4 singles under this title since.  This year (2025), she started a new collaborative label with her partner who is a music producer, and they have released two songs under the artist name “Cyphyr & Myraky.” Her mission is this: So many people believe the answers are "out there" and feel helpless in the current state of the world environmentally, politically, economically etc. Instead of feeling helpless, paralyzed by fear, or living under the influence of external circumstance and chaos, we can create real change by first realigning from the inside out to reconnect with our inner power and creativity. Imagine a world where people took responsibility for their life, knew their purpose, and felt like they were living life in full alignment with this.  Imagine what our communities would look like then? Above all else, Kassandra wants to inspire others to create positive ripple effects out into the world.  Ways to connect with Kassandra**:** Instagram: @kassandra hamilton  Facebook: Coaching with Kassandra TikTok: coachingwithkassandra LinkedIn: Kassandra Hamilton Website: www.kassandrahamilton.com Linktree with all my info: https://linktr.ee/kassandra.hamilton Spotify: Under name "Kazz": https://open.spotify.com/artist/0gpUecr9VkVJMmVIyp1NFt?si=byM7VdL9QDeezl5-666XKQ&utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree&nd=1&dlsi=9a801d5edc774e1d Under name "Cyphyr & Myraky" - new collaborative label https://open.spotify.com/artist/3xUxZGxTseXQB2G9PVolMn?si=In3BLhX3SMK_c-3ukTlCfQ&utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree&nd=1&dlsi=d369f571e6384062 Amazon Link to Book: https://a.co/d/2yWISSu Book Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDKW9ZNrsvA Rogers TV Community News Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0eOnQ2DAdg Nanaimo News Bulletin Story: https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/local-news/nanaimo-health-and-life-coachs-new-book-guides-inner-alignment-8182386 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone. I want to welcome you to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're really glad that you're here with us today. Our guest today is Kassandra Hamilton, from up in British Columbia, way, and she has, I think, a lot to talk about. She's a coach. She talks about burnout and but also about her many talents. She sings, she's a musician, and on top of everything else, she's an author, and she just wrote a book that has just come out. So we've got lots to talk about, or she has lots to talk about, and we'll talk about it with her. So, Kassandra, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Kassandra Hamilton  02:08 Thanks for having me, Michael. I'm really grateful to be here today. Michael Hingson  02:12 Well, I'm excited. There's obviously a lot to talk about, I think so. Tell us a little bit about the early Cassandra growing up, and all the usual things. You know, you got to start at the beginning somewhere, Kassandra Hamilton  02:22 absolutely, yeah, so as a kid, I mean, I've always been curious. My mom used to get very puzzled by me as a child, because I would always ask, like, who is God and how is the world made? And I just had all these questions. And it just never really stopped. When I was six, I had a vision of helping people and healing them with my hands, and I just saw this light between my hands and other people, and it was this recurring dream I kept having, and I didn't understand it in the practical sense. So I pursued a very traditional, you know, career in medicine, because that's what made sense to me, and the social conditions that we had in front of us, and that didn't really pan out for me. I just it wasn't resonating. I felt like the system was very rigid. And I just have always been fascinated with more of a holistic picture of someone you know, like their physical, emotional, spiritual selves, and so the just focusing on the physical alone just wasn't cutting it for me. I knew there was so much more, and I was so curious about all of that. So yeah, I've gone through different sort of journeys on my path, and come back to a place of really wanting to be of service and share some of the tools and strategies that I've learned along the way. Michael Hingson  03:47 Well, you started down the road of going into medicine, didn't you? Mm, hmm. And what was your master's in? Because I know you had your your master's degree, and then you started working with doctors. What did you get your master's degree in? Kassandra Hamilton  04:02 Yeah, so I completed a master's of science because it was in the stream of global health. And so I was really fascinated by the multifaceted aspect of that. And not just looking at physical impact in the world. We looked at, you know, political and economic, geographic indicators of health really gave me that sort of overall vision of what health looks like from from that bird's eye view. And then I wanted to pursue medicine after that, because, again, I wanted to be of service to others, but I ended up working with doctors to see if that's actually what I wanted to do, and I just saw the amount of burnout that doctors were experiencing and how 80% of their workload was paperwork. Michael Hingson  04:56 And so what did. You do. Kassandra Hamilton  05:02 So I left that work. I was there for two years, and it just I wasn't buying it. So I left. I started my own company as a consultant, and realized that a lot of the issues I was seeing abroad, I actually we had a lot of gaps here in Canada, especially with our indigenous communities, the disparities there were just huge, and so I focused my energy for the last decade on working with indigenous communities and unlearning a lot of sort of colonial ways of doing things and really integrating the holistic health model that is presented from from that culture that I was working with, and it's really, really been transformative and instrumental in the way that I approach health now, Michael Hingson  05:51 well, I'm curious about something sort of off the wall. I appreciate what you're saying about paperwork, and I'm sure there are all sorts of legalistic reasons why there has to be so much paperwork and so on in the medical world, especially when everybody's so concerned about things like malpractice and all that. But do you think any of that has gotten any better? Or how has it changed as we are progressing more to a paperless or different kind of charting system where everything is done from a computer terminal. I'm spoiled. My doctors are with Kaiser Permanente, and everything is all done on wireless, or at least on non paper chart. Types of things that they're just typing into the computer, actually, as as we're communicating and we're talking and I'm in visiting and so on, but everything is all done online. What do you think about that? Does that help any Kassandra Hamilton  06:53 so very great question. So when we're talking about accessibility, I'm going to say no, not for indigenous communities, at least here in Canada, I'll speak from my experience, but things have gone digital, and actually what I was doing was working as a digital health consultant to bridge health gaps in digital systems. Because what was happening and what still happens is there's systems that are quite siloed, and so a lot of health centers that are remote will be using paper still, or they'll be using system for that and another system for this. And so there's no wrap around, diligence around the client. And so there is this huge accessibility issue, which is what I've been working on for the last 10 years. Michael Hingson  07:41 Well, do you think that as well? Hopefully you'll see more paperless kinds of things go into play. But do you think in areas where the paper quantity has decreased, in the online or digital chart systems have come into play. Does that help burn out at all? Do you think again? Kassandra Hamilton  08:08 You know what? It really depends. Like you're you're only as good as your as your system allows, and so if you haven't allowed for inclusivity, and for example, a lot of the work that was funded in the first couple years that I was doing, there was no due diligence to figure out whether or not these remote areas even had internet. So without internet, they were pumping money into all of these systems that were super high tech, not culturally appropriate. A lot of elders don't even own a computer, let alone a smartphone or anything like that, or have service. So it was there was a huge disconnect there, and so part of the work I've been doing is a lot of advocacy and helping government agencies understand the connecting pieces that are are instrumental in the success of digital health implementation. Yeah, well, Michael Hingson  09:09 you know here, I know a fair amount about the whole digital chart system, because my sister in law was a critical care unit nurse at Kaiser, and then she managed several wards, and then she was tasked to be the head nurse for on the profit side, to help bring digital charts into Kaiser and and so I heard a lot about it from her and especially all the doctors who opposed it, just because they didn't want any change. They wanted to just do things the way that they had always done them. Yeah. And so the result is that they kind of got dragged kicking and screaming into it a little bit. But now I hear people mostly praising the whole system because it makes their job a lot easier. On the other hand, the other thing that happens, though, is they the system crams more patients into a doctor's appointment schedule every day, and so I'm not sure they're always seeing as much of patients as they should of any given patient, but I guess they have more doctors that specialize in different things. So no matter what happens, the doctors can all see whatever there is to see, because everything is in the chart, right? Kassandra Hamilton  10:41 And so Absolutely, in theory, and in urban areas where that works, you know, the digital systems are set up properly, absolutely. But in terms of going back to your question about burnout, if there's one nurse for one community, and she's a chart in five different, you know, systems that it's actually going to add to her burnout at the end of the day. Yeah? Michael Hingson  11:04 Well, yeah, and I appreciate that. I mean, so clearly, there's still quite a disparity, but it does, it does sound like in areas where they're able to truly bring digital charts and capturing information digitally into the system where, where that does exist, it can make people's lives, doctors, lives and so on, a little bit easier, and maybe contribute a little bit less to burnout. Kassandra Hamilton  11:34 Yeah, absolutely. And of course, that's the hope, and that's you know, why we continue to do the work to bring it into this, especially with AI too, like bringing more efficiency into the workplace, and it's all part of it. So yes, absolutely there's, there's definitely some, some hope, and some, you know, leaner, leaner ways of doing things for a lot of people. So yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  12:01 I'll hope it will continue to get better, and that the influence will expand so that the more rural areas and so on will be able to get the kinds of things that the more urban areas have. Now I live in an area that's fairly urban, but we don't have a Kaiser hospital up here. We have clinics, but we don't have a hospital. And apparently there's now, finally some movement toward making that happen. But it's interesting, where we used to live, in Northern California. We lived in a very what was, although we weren't, but was a rich County, and there were 200,000 people or so in the county, and there was a Kaiser hospital in the county. There was a Kaiser hospital about 30 miles away in San Francisco, and there were Kaiser hospitals going north, 1520, miles further north, in Petaluma. So there are a lot of hospitals, but we are in an area where there are over 400,000 people now, and there isn't a Kaiser hospital here, and that just has always seemed kind of strange to me. And the response is, well, the doctors don't want to move up here. I mean, there are all sorts of different reasons that are given, but it just seems strange. So if you really need to go to the hospital, they do have contracts that sort of work sometimes, or you have to go about 50 miles to get to the nearest actual Kaiser hospital, right? So it's strange. Kassandra Hamilton  13:38 It is strange. And there's a lot of things. Who knows who made the last call on decision? Right? So, right, yeah. Michael Hingson  13:48 Well, again, so the rumor goes they're going to be building a hospital here, and I think that will be a good thing. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. But you experienced burnout, Kassandra Hamilton  14:00 didn't you? I did? Yes, I tell us about that, if you would. Yeah, absolutely so when I was 27 and I went, that was Michael Hingson  14:13 last year, right? Kassandra Hamilton  14:14 Yes, thank you. It was 10 years ago, but on the outside, I was thriving. Michael, I was like, working for doctors of BC, I had an apartment on the ninth floor. I had an ocean view. I had the apartment downtown. I was, you know, dating. I was like, doing all these things. I was achieving, pushing and showing up. And inside I was running on empty, and I was very disconnected from my purpose, from myself, and that breakdown became eventually a breakthrough, but in the process, you know, I lost all my grandparents and my dog, and I didn't have tools for dealing with my anxiety. Yeah, and social media sort of just amplified that sort of comparative feeling, and I just started to slow down and like really realign, and I realized how many people were living on autopilot and surviving instead of thriving. And that's really when I wanted to become committed to helping others reclaim their purpose and their authenticity, and not just bounce back from burnout, but like rise into something greater, and like reconnect with themselves and their why of their purpose of being here. You know, Michael Hingson  15:33 yeah, because you you thought you were thriving, but you really weren't. Yeah, exactly which is, which is unfortunate, but still, those kinds of things happen. So what did you So, how did you go from experiencing burnout to moving forward and realigning? What? What did you learn? How did you discover it and what actually happened. Kassandra Hamilton  16:01 So I, you know, I, for a long time, went through my own inward journey. And I, you know, I went to counseling, I sought other ways of healing, through energy work, I tried all the different tools and modalities, and I realized over time, it meant flipping the script, and most of us live from the outside in, and we're chasing expectations and people pleasing, letting circumstances dictate our worth, and living from the inside out to me meant connecting with who I was and my values and and the truth of finding my like finding my purpose, and letting that be the driver, and that means having boundaries. It means speaking up when you're when you're scared or you have fear. I know you've done a lot of work with fear and how to leverage that for a more positive outcome, rather than letting it stop you. So in my life, that shift has really helped me stop outsourcing my power and allowed me to show up authentically in my work and my relationships and creativity, and that's where my freedom and vitality really lives, and I really want to share that with others. Michael Hingson  17:12 That's interesting. Way that you put it, you're outsourcing your power. What do you mean by that? Kassandra Hamilton  17:18 I was giving my power away. I was waiting for someone else to approve of something that I did. I was showcasing my, you know, achievements, and that was how I attached value to my identity and who I was. Michael Hingson  17:34 And of course, what that really meant is that you, as you said, it was all about people pleasing and so on. And how did you change all that? Kassandra Hamilton  17:43 It wasn't overnight, I'll bet it wasn't, yeah, and so I changed all that by getting curious and by going inside. And I have a four step process that I share in this book that I've now written. And the first step is to observe yourself, like, how are you showing up? What kind of patterns are coming up for you? And then starting to understand, like, why, where did those come from? And then starting to re tune that part of yourself, like, Okay, so that's how I'm showing up. How do I want to show up? And how can I change my patterns, and how I react to things, to do that, and that's how you start to, sort of like flip the narrative and limp from the inside out. Michael Hingson  18:26 How do people do that? Because we're, because we're, I think we're really trained to behave that way. We're we're trained to as, as you would put it, all too often, give your power away or outsource your power. And how do we change that mentality? Kassandra Hamilton  18:48 Yeah, well, we have to first observe ourselves. We have to look at, you know, how are boundaries being used in your life? Or are they even there? Are you showing up for yourself as much as you're showing up for other people? Are you being authentic in what really is, in alignment with your own values? Are you living on purpose? So these things are what we look at, and then I have tools and frameworks and questions to help people really start to observe themselves from an outside perspective and ask themselves, Is this really how I want to be living right now? Is this allowing me to live the life that I want? Michael Hingson  19:34 Yeah, and is it, is it helping me grow Exactly? And that's that's a lot of the issue that that we face. I know, in my my book live like a guide dog that wrote was published last year. We we talk a lot about the fact that people need to learn, or hopefully will learn, how to be much more introspective and. And analyze what they do every day, and really put that analysis to work, to to learn. What am I afraid of? What is going on? Why am I worried about this? Because I don't have any control over it and and people just don't grow up feeling that way, because we don't really teach people how to learn to control fear and how to be introspective, which is part of the problem, of course, right? Kassandra Hamilton  20:27 Or even how to manage our emotions, right? Like emotion is energy in motion, and if we do not allow it to move through us, it gets stuck, and it shows up in our bodies as a physical ailment, yeah. And that's the mind, body, spirit connection. That's why physical, mental, emotional health is so important to look at as as a whole, not just in silo. Michael Hingson  20:51 So how do you how do you teach people to take a different view than what we typically learned how to do well? Kassandra Hamilton  21:01 So once we've observed what people what people are, how they're operating, we then start to understand where it comes from. So a lot of people are programmed either by society or early childhood experiences, and then they are just operating on autopilot from those patterns. But they don't know that. So once you start like, awareness is everything, and once you see something, you can't unsee it. So at that point, it's like, okay, how can we move from this place to where you want to be? And so I have a lot of tools for understanding and processing your emotions in real time. I have tools for understanding and managing nervous like your nervous system, I look at it from a science and health background as well as a spiritual background. So it's like blending the tool to and understanding that healing isn't just physical and mindfulness and slowing down and journaling and just taking the time to actually try and understand yourself. Michael Hingson  22:03 So how has all of this changed how you live your life? Kassandra Hamilton  22:08 Well, I since I started operating in a different way, I bought a house. I bought another house, about another house, I, you know, wrote a book. I changed careers. I am coaching people now I'm just like really living in my element, in my my full purpose, which is have this written on my wall that I want to help others rediscover their magic, so we can all fly together. So it's really about spreading positive ripple effects in the world, you know, but starting at home and in our communities. And I believe that that inside out ripple effect is so much more powerful than anything we can do out there, Michael Hingson  22:56 just so that we get it out there. What's the title of the book? Kassandra Hamilton  22:59 It's called the magic of realigning from the inside out. Michael Hingson  23:04 Since we, we talked about it, I figured we better get the title out there. Yeah, thank you. And there is a picture of the book cover and so on in the show notes. But I just wanted to make sure that you, you did tell people the title. Well, tell me, is there an incident or a moment where you realize that your work could really create change in someone's life? Kassandra Hamilton  23:32 Yeah, you know, that's an interesting question. I've been asked that a few times, and the answer is that I just have a very strong morning practice where I journal. And throughout that journaling the last few years, I realized my process of integrating all of these tools and what it's done for me, and it just became like again, me observing myself through the pages and recognizing that I you know, it was my responsibility to share this, this work that I had done with other people, and not from a place of of ego, but really from that place of wanting to share stories and experiences in hopes that it will inspire others to, you know, take the time to Get curious and courageous about their own lives. Michael Hingson  24:22 Did you have any kind of an aha moment or a moment with anyone besides yourself that really caused you to realize, Oh, I'm really making a difference here. I'm really able to do this, and it makes a lot of sense to do what I'm doing. Kassandra Hamilton  24:38 Well, it's so funny, because informally, all of my friends will come to me for, you know, advice or coaching or reframing or whatever, and then eventually I was like, Man, I should get paid. And Michael Hingson  24:53 they're not your friends anymore, because now you're charging them, right? Kassandra Hamilton  24:58 So it's something that I've. Always really wanted to do, and I've always been fascinated by people and how their brains work, and what their resistance to change is, including my own. And yeah, I guess I just sort of had this moment a few years ago when I was like, I want to really focus my time on and energy to help other people have these moments of insight, or aha moments, or realizing they can pivot and actually start creating what they want in their lives. Michael Hingson  25:29 So what kind of tools do you use in your coaching process to help people do that? Kassandra Hamilton  25:34 Yeah, I lean on a lot of work from Gabor Mate and Deepak Chopra. I use tools that I've learned through Tara Brock. So my favorite tool, actually, that I, that I use, and I, I encourage people to try, is rain. And so if I could leave one sort of tool for people here today, it would be rain. And rain stands for recognize, acknowledge or accept, investigate, and then nourish. And so anytime people are in an activated emotional state or a negative emotion, they can sit away from their current situations, whether it's you go to the bathroom, or you sit alone for a few moments and you just recognize, okay, what is it that I'm feeling anxiety? Alright, we've named it. I recognize it. I'm accepting and acknowledging that I feel anxious. And then I is investigating, why do I feel anxious? What is the reason I feel anxious? And once you have figured out why, you can start to comfort yourself from a place of compassion, like it's okay to feel this way, you know Michael, like emotions are just children that want to be seen and heard, and the more you shove them down, the more chaos ensues. So when you comfort those emotions and you understand them, they move through you, naturally, emotion energy in motion. That's how we can assist ourselves in getting better at letting the emotions move through us. Michael Hingson  27:08 Yeah, and something that comes to mind along that that same line is the whole issue that you've already talked about, some which is talking about what what you feel, whoever you are, and be willing to express emotions, be willing to be honest with yourself and with other people. And again, I just think that we so often are taught not to do that. It's so unfortunate. Kassandra Hamilton  27:36 Absolutely, absolutely, we're not taught about anything. And I have a long list for the education curriculum, let me tell you, yeah, boundaries, you know, emotional regulation, emotional intelligence, yeah, reframing, Like there's just so many things, so many things. Michael Hingson  28:03 So you've, you've helped a lot of people, primarily, who do you do you coach? Who are your your typical clients? Or does it matter? Kassandra Hamilton  28:14 So I typically coach people between ages 25 to 40, but I actually recently had a senior reach out to me after she found an article in the paper, and so I'm not excluding people from who I work with, but generally speaking, that's sort of the age range is 25 to 45 people who maybe have reached a, you know, the career they thought they were always going to do and get there, and they're like, this, isn't it? This isn't it for me, I'm burnt out. I'm tired. It's not what I thought it was going to be. Or maybe they're in a relationship and they're stuck and feeling burnt out from that. So yeah, that's the age group that I work in. Because regardless of what issue you're working on, career, relationship, sense of self, these tools will help you pivot to really realign with your purpose. Michael Hingson  29:03 So how do you help people go from being stuck to realigning and empowered Kassandra Hamilton  29:10 through my four step process? So I don't want to give too much away, but people will just need to read the book to find out. Michael Hingson  29:19 Well, if you can describe maybe a little bit in general, just enough to Yeah. Kassandra Hamilton  29:24 So just like I was saying before, like first getting really clear on how people are operating, so that's the observed part, and then starting to understand themselves through the different patterns that are coming up on a weekly, daily basis. So it's a lot of investigating and getting data in the first couple weeks, and then after that, we start to understand how to rewire things through different tools that I introduce, and we do it in small, manageable steps. My coaching programs are either six weeks or two. 12 weeks long. And throughout that process, we try things, and everyone's different. So some tools stick, you know, more than others, and that's okay. I just have a the approach that I've moved them through, and by the end, people are having amazing experiences and feeling like it's life changing. And I have, you know, a lot of people reaching out with testimonials that I just, you know, really helped fuel me to continue this work. Michael Hingson  30:26 Have you done this at all with children? I Kassandra Hamilton  30:30 haven't, but it's so interesting that you asked that because I really love working with youth. I work in a restorative justice volunteer program here in my community, and it's all about providing mentorship and being a role model for for youth that have maybe lost their way. And that's definitely an area I'm curious about. It's funny that you mentioned that. Michael Hingson  30:55 Well, it just, you know, the the reality is that the earlier we can get people to think about this and change and go more toward the kind of processes that you promote, the better it would be. But I also realize that that's a it's a little bit different process with with youth, I'm sure, than it is with older, older people, adults and so on. But I was just curious if you had done any, or if you have any plans to maybe open any kind of programs more for youth to help them the same way, because clearly there are a lot of stuck youth out there. Kassandra Hamilton  31:37 Yeah, very much so. And to be honest, like with the amount of technology and information overload and state of the world, like the amount of overwhelm and anxiety among youth right now is just through the charts, yeah, yeah. So definitely something that's been on my mind, and I I'm very curious as to what sparked you to ask that, because it's definitely something I've been exploring so Michael Hingson  32:02 well, it just popped into my head that that's an interesting thing to think about. And I would also think that the earlier we can and in this case, you can, reach children, the more open they probably are to listening to suggestions if you can establish a rapport with them. The reality is that that at a younger age, they're not as locked in to ways of doing things as they might be later on, my wife was my late wife was a teacher for 10 years, then she loved teaching second and third graders, and she said even by the time you're getting to fourth graders, they're starting to be a little bit more rigid in their mindsets. And so the result was that it was harder sometimes to reach them. And I think that's true, and I and I know that everything I've ever read or heard younger the child, the more open they are, and the more they're able to learn. Like younger children are better able to learn more than one language and so on. And the earlier you can get to children, probably the better it would be all the way around. Kassandra Hamilton  33:19 Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah, definitely, an avian Avenue. I've been curious and exploring myself. So, yeah, Michael Hingson  33:28 I wonder, I wonder what the techniques would be, because I'm sure that the techniques are going to be a little bit different than than what you face with older people, Kassandra Hamilton  33:37 not necessarily like I think at any age, it's good to learn about boundaries and why they're important and understanding what we think they are versus what they actually are. And same with, you know, seeking validation outside of ourselves. Like I don't think, I don't think it's quite I think it might be a little bit more stuck when we're older, but I don't think it's very different. Yeah, I guess it just depends. Just depends. Michael Hingson  34:07 Well, you talk a lot about boundaries, authenticity, authenticity and purpose. How does all that really go into your whole coaching program? Kassandra Hamilton  34:22 Sorry? In what sense, like, can you ask that it may be a different a different way? Michael Hingson  34:29 Well, um, you talk, you've you've mentioned boundaries a number of times, and authenticity and so on. So I'm just curious, how do they fit into what you do and what you want people to do okay? Kassandra Hamilton  34:41 So people will come to me and they're, you know, feeling burnt out. They're constantly on. They're juggling family relationships, digital overload. They don't have space to breathe, let alone, you know, connect with themselves. And underneath that, there's often a lot of people pleasing or fear. Not being enough or living by other people's expectations, and so so many of them are feeling exhausted, unfulfilled, lack of worth when they come to me and they're just like, I don't know what else to do. And often, a misconception about burnout is that you need to work harder for things to get better, or you just need a small break to reset, and then you're fine. But if we don't change anything in that, in the mind, in the mindset, then people are just going to go back to the way, the way they were. Michael Hingson  35:33 How would you really define burnout? Kassandra Hamilton  35:38 I would define burnout as people feeling helpless, feeling like they're living on autopilot, exhaustion, feeling like there's just so much to manage and they don't have the time or the energy again, feeling like they can't or don't know about boundaries, and yeah, they're unfulfilled. They're not feeling like themselves. And so what I would suggest for anyone who's feeling that way is one of the things you can do is just just pause, create a moment of space for yourself, even if it's just five minutes a day, ask yourself what you really need, and it sounds simple, but most of us are so disconnected or needs that we don't even ask the question. But that pauses our power. It can be the doorway to listening to yourself again, and from there, you can start making choices that really align with what you actually want? Michael Hingson  36:43 One of the things that I suggest, and we do it in live like a guide dog, and I suggest it to people whenever we get in these discussions, is, no matter what you say about not having time, you absolutely have time, especially worst case at the end of the day, when you're starting to fall asleep, take the time to analyze yourself, take the time to become more introspective, because you have that time because you're in bed for heaven's sake. So you're really not supposed to be doing anything else, or shouldn't, but it's a great time to start to think about yourself, and I think that's a great time to deal with all the things that you're talking about here as well. Kassandra Hamilton  37:20 Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. And people have time for what they prioritize. That's that's the truth. And whether that's something people want to accept, it's absolutely the truth. You will make time for the things that are important to you. Michael Hingson  37:35 Yeah, well, and that's what it really comes down to does, isn't it that you're always going to make time for the things that you find are important to you, and the reality is that you'll be able to progress when you discover that some of the things that are important to you are the kinds of things that we're talking about here that will avoid burnout or get you away From that absolutely we just have to really neck us back to boundaries and authenticity and purpose. It just gets back to knowing what you really need, and ultimately, no one can know that better than you about yourself. Kassandra Hamilton  38:16 Absolutely, we have to reconnect to what matters and build the life that gives energy instead of only draining it. Michael Hingson  38:23 Yeah, and we can, we can do that, but we do need to take the time to make that happen, and that's why I really suggest do it at the end of the day. It's quiet and or you can make it quiet, and you can really learn by doing that you don't have to watch TV until an hour after you've fallen asleep, and then you wake up and discover the TV's on. You can take the time to become a little bit more introspective and learn more about yourself that way. And that's exactly what will happen if you really think about it Kassandra Hamilton  38:55 100% and you know, at my book launch, people were asking, like, how did you write a book, and it was like, it's not it's not hard in the sense that it's hard, it's hard because you have to show up every day. But that consistency, whether it's five minutes or an hour, like the consistency is everything. So showing up for yourself in small ways or whatever feels manageable at first, will naturally give you more energy to wake up early and give yourself more time. You know, it's just happens that way. Michael Hingson  39:25 Yeah, yeah. Well, I agree. What's your favorite tool that you use with clients? Kassandra Hamilton  39:31 So it would be the one I shared with you earlier rain. It has been very instrumental for people in transforming how long it takes them to go from from a place of fear or anxiety or resentment to just processing it and being neutral. And it's amazing. Michael Hingson  39:53 And again, just to reiterate, it rain stands for, Kassandra Hamilton  39:57 recognize, accept or acknowledge. Manage, investigate and nourish, Michael Hingson  40:05 that's cheating. You get both both spellings of rain in there. That's that works, but it makes perfect sense and and I'm assuming that you've felt you've had pretty good success with people. Have you had anyone that just resists, even though they come to you and they say, Oh, I'm burned out and all that, but you start to work with them and they just resist? Or do you find that you're able to usually break through? Kassandra Hamilton  40:35 So it's funny, because a lot of people that come to me are very resistant to it, because of the nature of burnout, where people feel like don't have the time or the energy right at the beginning, a lot of people are very resistant, and they say so in their testimonials. No, at first I felt resistant, but then I didn't know that these things were actually going to give me exactly what I what I needed. So I've worked with a couple nurses. I worked with a woman who was managing, like, working four jobs, and she was super burnt out. But eventually, probably by like two or three weeks in, people are starting to feel the differences, and they're, they're all in. So yeah, it does take a bit to get them there, but once they're there, they're they're flying so, Michael Hingson  41:22 yeah, oh, that's that is so really cool, because you're able to break through and get people to do exactly what we've been talking about, which is so important to do, Kassandra Hamilton  41:34 yeah, yeah. And you know the moments for me that just feel like, Oh, this is the work I meant to do, is seeing someone go from that place of burnout or defeat because they're working a job they don't enjoy to starting their own business that's leveraging their creativity and their passion, or they've repaired a relationship, or they're finally feeling confident in themselves like there's No better gift to me than to see that change in somebody. Michael Hingson  42:06 What are some of the most common struggles that you see in people? I know we've probably talked a lot about it, but you know, it's good to summarize. But what are some of the kind of the most common struggles that you find in people? And why do you think that people are experiencing so much burnout? And I'm assuming that those two are related, Kassandra Hamilton  42:27 yeah, yeah. So, okay, so if we were talking about career, people that are managing a career that is very demanding, and that is all they do, and they have no energy for time like for things outside of work. What they say is that they're feeling numb, or they're living on autopilot, or they don't recognize themselves anymore. Another shared that she was really scared of leaving because of a financial aspect. And so I think at that point, you just start to flip the narrative and ask, well, what are you sacrificing by staying right? So like, maybe we need to get a part time job while we're exploring our creativity and building a new business for ourselves, but it's 100% possible, and these programs are not meant to make these drastic changes overnight. They're small, incremental, consistent changes that over time bring you to a place of alignment with what you actually want to create in life. Do you Michael Hingson  43:34 find that there are some people who feel I can't stay here, I've got to leave or this boss isn't good, or whatever, when, in reality, it's it's something different, and that a mindset shift makes them discover that they really are in a good well, they're in a good position, or they have a good career, or whatever, but their perspective has just been off. Kassandra Hamilton  43:56 Yeah, absolutely. So someone said something to me the other day that it stuck with me at the time, but it was something like, If you can't, if you can't get out of it, you better get into it. Yeah, that's a good point. It's like, yeah, sometimes it's just with how you're showing up for yourself and for the people around you. And that's the shift that needs to happen. So it's not necessarily about leaving a job. Thank you for bringing that up. It is about changing your life from the inside, and a huge part of that is mindset and the energy that you're bringing to a situation. Because how you do one thing is how you do everything. So, yeah, Michael Hingson  44:41 it's it's like, well, one of the things that I constantly tell people is there are a lot of times that something occurs to you or that you're involved with you have no control over, because you're not the one that that did it, or you're not the one that directly made this happen. And but you always have the choice of how you deal with whatever happens. So even if you don't have any direct influence over something occurring, you have always the opportunity to determine how you're going to deal with it. And that's always something that I think is so important for people to analyze and think about. But I think all too many people don't Kassandra Hamilton  45:21 absolutely the power is in our pause. And that's something I tell people all the time, the power is in your pause. Slow down, take a second, don't respond right away. And then come from a place of power, and you know that it changes everything. Michael Hingson  45:38 Well, the reality is that the more of that that you do, the more you pause, the more you think about it. The fact is, the quicker, over time, you'll be able to make a decision, because you're teaching yourself how to do that Kassandra Hamilton  45:54 truly. Yep. Michael Hingson  45:56 And so for a while, you may not be able to or you you are not confident enough to be able to make a decision right away, which is fine, you should pause. But the fact of the matter is, I think what I really describe it as, and I think it's so true, is you need to learn to listen to your inner voice, because your inner voice is going to tell you what you need to do. And you just need to really learn to focus on that, but we don't. We always say, Oh, that's too easy. That can't be the right answer when it really is. Kassandra Hamilton  46:26 It really is. And so again, that pause is also about space, right? So when I feel triggered by something, I will take the space to let myself come back down from that and then ask myself what I really want, or again, coming back to boundaries, if someone asks me if I want to do something, and I'm a very social person, and I love connection, so right away, I want to say yes, I'll, you know, do that thing with you. Now I have a really beautiful way to still show that it's like something I want to partake in, but honor myself as well. By saying I love this idea, I need a little bit of time to figure out if I can fully commit to this, and I'll get back to you at this time so it shows integrity, not only to myself, but to to that person as well, and showing up in a way that it like, if I have capacity to do that, then I will, yeah. Michael Hingson  47:25 Well, if somebody listening to this kind of feels unfulfilled or stuck exhausted, what's the very first step that you would suggest that they take? Kassandra Hamilton  47:37 Just like I was saying, just take a pause. Michael Hingson  47:40 I knew you were going to Kassandra Hamilton  47:41 say that create a moment of space. Ask yourself, what's really going on and what you really want, and then ask yourself if your actions are all the choices that you're about to make align with that, yeah. Michael Hingson  47:56 And the reason I asked the question was, was really just to get you to reiterate that and to get people to hear it again, because we have to really come together in our own minds and decide what we want to do, and we shouldn't have knee jerk reactions. There's no need to do that, if we think about it and really take the time to ponder what makes the most sense to do. Can we'll get the right answers if we work at it Kassandra Hamilton  48:22 100% you just have to put in a little bit of curiosity and time to figure it out. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Michael Hingson  48:33 What do you think is one of the greatest misunderstandings about burnout and what is the truth that you really wish more people knew? Kassandra Hamilton  48:46 People think burnout is just about being tired or needing a vacation, but it's so much deeper than that. And you know, it's a sign that we've been living out of alignment with ourselves, and that rest alone isn't going to fix it real, real recovery is is coming from changing the way that we live and setting boundaries and reconnecting with what matters and building a life that gives energy instead of strain. Michael Hingson  49:16 Yeah, again, it gets back to that authenticity thing. Kassandra Hamilton  49:19 Yep, that thing, yeah. Michael Hingson  49:26 What are some of the biggest transformations that you've seen from your clients that you're really pleased about? Kassandra Hamilton  49:33 I've seen clients go from anxious and depleted to, like I said, starting businesses that they love. And that wasn't even something that we worked on together, it was like just a few tweaks, you know, simple but not easy, shifts that they made. And then I get emails or comments about how they're starting businesses that they love, and they're full time booked in that so like that. That's been a big transformation. Question for a few of my clients. One woman was trying to find a relationship, and she had tried everything, and from all different angles, and it wasn't working, and truthfully, she needed to come back to herself and align with herself, and when she did that, you know, nine months later, she found the love of her life, and one client said she stopped feeling numb for the first time in years. Another shared that she actually laughed and felt joy again. And these transformations are powerful because they're not just surface change or changes. They're they're life changing shifts in how people see themselves and what they what they feel like they can create in the world. Michael Hingson  50:46 And ultimately, isn't most of this transformation or shift really a change in one's mindset. Kassandra Hamilton  50:54 Yes, it is mindset, and it is also taking the time, taking the time, having the courage and having awareness of how we are operating in our daily lives, and why, yeah, and then shifting that. Michael Hingson  51:12 Well, tell us all about the book. When did it launch, and what's happened, and what do you see coming down the line for it and so on? Yes, I know you have a lot to talk about, so tell us. Kassandra Hamilton  51:27 So the magic of realigning from the inside out is very much in line with what I coach about, which is about bringing us back home to ourselves. And I share a lot of personal storytelling and scientific connections and soulful practices that I've tried that have worked really well for me, and I really invite readers to reconnect with with themselves. So it's sort of like a guidebook like the first the first half of the book is a lot of stories, the second half is more tools and strategies. And overall, it's the idea that, you know, the answers aren't out there. They have to start within. And we weren't meant to just get through the day. It's exhausting to try to fix and control everything out there. The thing is, we have no control over what's happening out there anyways, and so we have our one wild and precious life, and it's like, what are we going to do with that, especially in a world that's constantly pulling us outward with notifications and expectations and distractions? Yeah, I really believe this is how we show up to make a positive difference in the world by working on ourselves and spreading that upward. Michael Hingson  52:40 So when did the book launch? Kassandra Hamilton  52:43 August 21 was my book launch here on Vancouver Island, and I'm actually organizing a little book tour. Yeah, across the province here. So yeah, that's stay tuned. It'll be next month. I think so. Michael Hingson  53:01 Have you had any kind of book tours, or what kind of publicity Have you had so far for the book? Kassandra Hamilton  53:06 So I was working with a publicist, which was very new to me, and I was able to connect with some press. So a couple newspapers came to my book launch. There was, I think it was like 50 people that showed up, and the mayor came to give a speech, and he wants to meet with me for lunch next week and talk more about what I could do with the book, which is great, because I really think I can use it as a tool for helping in my own community and maybe even offering organizations some opportunities to explore strategies to get their their employees out of burnout. Yeah? So that's kind of what's happened so far, and a lot of bookstores have taken it up. So I've got all the local bookstores here. Have it. It's not available on Amazon, yeah, and it's actually a bestseller. I reached bestseller status in three categories. What categories, personal development, personal growth, and I think anxiety was the third one I have to look back at it. Michael Hingson  54:14 Well, definitely congratulations are in order for doing that. Though. Thank you. Thank you. So that's that is definitely kind of cool to to have that kind of situation and that kind of status happening with the book. It makes it very exciting and certainly gratifying in so many ways. When did you start coaching? Did you when did you actually start your company? Kassandra Hamilton  54:37 So I started coaching. Let's see two, two, no, a year and a half ago. So honestly, formally, not that long, but it's already just something I'm so passionate about and getting more and more positive feedback on. So yeah, I guess in the grand scheme of things, I'm just getting started. Michael Hingson  54:59 Well, that's fair. That's fine. Yeah, we, we think you're going to go far at least. I think you're going to go quite a, quite a distance with all of this. Do you just coach people directly, one on one? Do you do virtual coaching? Do you coach outside of British Columbia and all that? Kassandra Hamilton  55:18 Yeah, you know, I mostly work virtually, because then I can be accessible to more people. So that's how I actually prefer to work, is virtually, but I'm open to, you know, meeting people where they're at and however they want to communicate. So I've been doing phone calls with with one person and then zoom with another, and if people do want to do in person, I'm open to it. It's just a little bit more restrictive in terms of reach. But I'm also going to be doing some wellness workshops and talks around these tools and strategies I've learned, and using my book as a tool as I go through the province next month. So it's not just going to be about the book. It's going to be presenting and giving workshops and talks around this work, and then presenting my book as a tool to use in in helping people get back to a place of alignment and energy again. Michael Hingson  56:20 Well, on your on your website, we haven't talked about that yet, but on your website, do you have any videos of talks or anything like that that you've done? Kassandra Hamilton  56:31 Not of any talks. I think my first one, to be honest with you, is, was at the book launch, but it went so well that I'm just sort of, I'm I'm adding fuel to that fire, you know, and I'm just gonna keep going, yeah. So I haven't done any talks beyond that one yet, but I have some testimonials and things on my website. So those are the videos that are there. Michael Hingson  56:55 Well, for people who are listening to this today, who feel like they want to do. So, how can they reach out to you and connect with you, and what? What happens? Kassandra Hamilton  57:05 Yeah, so the best way is to reach out to me through my website or my I have a link tree link that I think I might have sent you, Michael, but it has all my different links for working on with coaching or reaching out in different ways and contact information. So link tree, Instagram are my main ones, but also obviously email and my website. So what is your website? It's www, dot Kassandra with a K Hamilton, which is my last name.com, Michael Hingson  57:40 so that's easy. Www, dot Kassandra Hamilton com, Kassandra Hamilton  57:44 yeah, and on Instagram, it's at Kassandra with a K underscore Hamilton, so Michael Hingson  57:50 Okay, yeah, have you? Have you done much with LinkedIn? Kassandra Hamilton  57:55 I have, yeah, I also have LinkedIn, yep. And I have Tiktok, and I have Facebook, Michael Hingson  58:00 all the things, all the different suspects, all the usual suspects, yes, yeah. Well, that is, you know, that is really pretty cool. I hope that people will reach out, because you've off, you've clearly offered a lot of very useful and relevant information. And I think that it's extremely important that people take it to heart, and I hope that maybe we're going to be able to have contributed to your getting some more people in the business too. Kassandra Hamilton  58:30 I really appreciate that, Michael and I know you've done so much work with people as well, and inspired others, you know, astronomically. So I really appreciate and feel grateful for the time that you've given me today. Michael Hingson  58:46 Well, this has been a lot of fun, and we'll have to do it again. You'll have to come on and some point in the future and let us know how things are going and how the book is doing, and how everything else is happening. But I, but I really do value the fact that you've spent so much time with us today. Kassandra Hamilton  59:03 Thank you so much. At least we're in the Michael Hingson  59:06 same time zone. That helps. Yes, that's true. Well, Kassandra, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you out there for listening to us and being with us and watching us, whichever you do. I'd love to hear from you as well. I'd like to get your thoughts and your opinions. Please reach out to me. At Michael H i, that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, I'd like to get your thoughts. Like to know what you thought of today's episode, wherever you are experiencing the podcast, please give us a five star review. We value your reviews highly, and we would really appreciate you giving us reviews of this episode and the podcast in general, and for anyone out there, including you, Kassandra, who might know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable. Mindset and tell their own story. Please reach out. Let

In this episode, I catch you up on everything that's been keeping me busy around the NFB of Pennsylvania. As convention chair for our 2025 convention in Harrisburg, I walk through how the weekend went—sponsors, auction totals, banquet fundraising, Family Feud night with Amazon gift cards and consolation candy bars, and the great support we got from the Best Western Premier staff. I talk about how grateful I am for Jane's help running things behind the scenes and how I'm emailing every attendee to say thanks and gather honest feedback. Of course, it wouldn't be an episode without travel drama: a tense run-in with a Harrisburg red cap, a creepy pitch-black train station, and a long rideshare wait getting home from Malvern. I wrap up with what's next, why I'm hoping to get back to weekly episodes, and how you can hear more convention content over on White Canes Connect. Show notes at https://www.iCantCU.com/292 Links Mentioned Product links are affiliate links so that I may earn a commission. Ray-Ban Meta Glasses, Wayfarer: https://amzn.to/42EU0Sy Like the sunglasses Jane bought for me? https://amzn.to/4oGWLfx Another big dog toy that may be on Ziggy's Christmas list: https://amzn.to/4nWcib1 Federation Focus on the NFB of PA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa I edit the show with Descript and love it!: https://www.iCantCU.com/descript/ Be My Eyes app (free): https://www.bemyeyes.com/  Seeing AI app (free): https://www.seeingai.com/  AI Killed Santa? That Real Blind Tech Show ep 191: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-191-a-i-has-killed-santa-but-dont-tell-all/id1526258077?i=1000737946828 Index of That Real Blind Tech Show episodes: https://www.icantcu.com/trbts/  Watch iCantCU episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU Support iCantCU When shopping at Amazon, I would appreciate it if you clicked on this link to make your purchases: https://www.iCantCU.com/amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associate Program and earn commissions on qualifying purchases. The best part is, you don't pay extra for doing this! White Canes Connect Podcast Episode 146 In Episode 146 of White Canes Connect, we share the 2025 NFB of Pennsylvania State Convention banquet keynote delivered by National Federation of the Blind Executive Director of Blindness Initiatives, Anil Lewis. With humor, honesty, and warmth, Anil traces his journey from sudden blindness and early misconceptions about rehabilitation to discovering the Federation's philosophy of high expectations, love, and accountability. Find this episode at: Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/anil-lewis-keynote-address-at-pa-state-convention/id1592248709?i=1000738772303 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/1uUuORnubQC3pCa9sOYUqR YouTube https://youtu.be/M_fjMoBG5tE?si=nnJl7cU1kUmdYOBe White Canes Connect Website https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/146/      My Podcast Gear Here is all my gear and links to it on Amazon. I participate in the Amazon Associates Program and earn a commission on qualifying purchases. Zoom Podtrak P4: https://amzn.to/33Ymjkt Zoom ZDM Mic & Headphone Pack: https://amzn.to/33vLn2s Zoom H1n Recorder: https://amzn.to/3zBxJ9O  Gator Frameworks Desk Mounted Boom Arm: https://amzn.to/3AjJuBK Shure SM58 S Mic: https://amzn.to/3JOzofg  Sony ZV-E10 camera : https://amzn.to/4fFBSxM  GoPro Hero 11 Black: https://amzn.to/3SKI7WX Rode Video Micro (used on GoPro): https://amzn.to/4kVMJWI Sennheiser Headset (1st 162 episodes): https://amzn.to/3fM0Hu0  Follow iCantCU on your favorite podcast directory! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/icantcu-podcast/id1445801370/  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nck2D5HgD9ckSaUQaWwW2  Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/iCantCU-Podcast-Podcast/B08JJM26BT  IHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-icantcu-podcast-31157111/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@iCantCU   Connect on Social Media Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidbenj Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidbenj Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidbenj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbenj Are You or Do You Know A Blind Boss? If you or someone you know is crushing it in their field and is also blind, I want to hear from you! Call me at (646) 926-6350 and leave a message. Please include your name and town, and tell me who the Blind Boss is and why I need to have them on an upcoming episode. You can also email the show at iCantCUPodcast@gmail.com.

I sat down with Koen DeWitt, and his story is a powerful reminder of what resilience really looks like. Koen grew up in a home where emotions were never spoken, and he carried that silence into adulthood. When he left corporate life to dive in Thailand, he expected a fresh start. Instead, he survived the 2004 tsunami and had to rebuild everything from the ground up. Koen opened up about the setbacks that followed, from business betrayal to a sudden heart surgery. What impressed me most was his willingness to keep choosing growth instead of staying in the pain. Today he helps entrepreneurs find purpose and stability in their own journeys, and his story encourages all of us to keep going even when life feels overwhelming. Highlights: 00:00 – Learn how early family patterns shape the way you handle pressure as an adult.02:14 – See how breaking out of routine can open unexpected paths to personal growth.04:33 – Understand why facing fear head on can transform the way you move through life.06:48 – Explore how rebuilding your identity starts with acknowledging what you've avoided.09:12 – Learn how to recognize the signs that you are living from performance instead of purpose.11:40 – Hear how setbacks can become the turning points that redefine your direction.14:28 – Discover why trusting the wrong people can still teach you the right lessons.17:05 – Understand how health challenges can clarify what truly matters in your work and life.19:44 – Learn how choosing honesty over emotional silence creates real resilience.22:31 – See how helping others through their struggles can deepen your own healing. About the Guest: Koen De Wit is a marketing strategist, coach, and former diving instructor who's rebuilt his life more than once — not by choice, but by necessity.  Originally from Belgium, his early life was shaped by emotional distance, chronic illness, and the pressure to stay useful. That same drive helped him build successful dive businesses across Asia — until betrayal, trauma, and collapse forced him to start over.  Twice. In 2004, Koen survived the Asian tsunami that killed 300.000 people and wounded many more.  After 18 surgeries and no access to rehab or emotional support, he pushed forward the only way he knew how: by working.  He became one of Thailand's leading diving instructor trainers. But behind the achievements, he carried the weight of trauma and over-responsibility. That way of surviving — through control and performance — eventually stopped working. In 2017, after losing his business again, Koen turned to digital marketing as a last resort. What began as survival became a calling.  Today, he helps coaches and service entrepreneurs rebuild their business structures so they stop burning out and start creating something that feels right to run. His work blends strategy and structure with the emotional clarity most people avoid. Koen lives in Thailand with his wife and son. He doesn't believe in hustle or hype. He believes in clarity, calm systems, and work that gives back more than it takes. Ways to connect with Koen**:** https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-funnel-therapist/ https://www.facebook.com/koen.d.wit https://www.youtube.com/@funneltherapist Website https://www.thefunneltherapist.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

In this episode of White Canes Connect, we share the 2025 NFB of Pennsylvania State Convention banquet keynote delivered by National Federation of the Blind Executive Director of Blindness Initiatives, Anil Lewis. With humor, honesty, and warmth, Anil traces his journey from sudden blindness and early misconceptions about rehabilitation to discovering the Federation's philosophy of high expectations, love, and accountability.  He reflects on Dr. Marc Maurer's mentorship, his leadership in Georgia, work on accessible voting and ending subminimum wages under Section 14(c), and the transformative training he received at the Louisiana Center for the Blind. Throughout, Anil returns to one powerful question: are we taking more than we give? His stories of family, faith, and Federation service challenge each of us to share our own story, get into "good trouble," and help build the National Federation of the Blind together—all starting right here in Pennsylvania today. Show notes at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/146        PA Association of Blind Merchants Holiday Party The PABM invites you to the 2025 Holiday Networking Party and Fundraiser on December 6 from 5 PM to 10 PM at the DoubleTree by Hilton at Philadelphia Airport. Enjoy food, music, our auction, and basket raffles. In addition, the Blind Merchants will be collecting non-perishable food to donate to Philabundance. Learn more and register at https://pablindmerchants.org/holiday-party/registration/. Did I mention the OPEN bar from 5:30 PM to 7:30 PM? Thanks to an anonymous donor, there will be an open bar for 2 hours. Get there early, drink up, and bid on the great auction items! Donate to the NFB of PA Like what you hear on White Canes Connect? Please support us and donate to the National Federation of the Blind of Pennsylvania, visit http://www.supportpablind.org.  Keep Up-to-date with the Affiliate Learn about chapter and division meetings and fundraisers on Federation Focus.  It's available on the affiliate's YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/@nfbofpa. New episodes drop every Monday. We Want to Hear Your Story Reach out with questions and comments, or share ideas! We want to hear from you. Call us at (267) 338-4495 or at whitecanesconnect@gmail.com. Follow White Canes Connect Find out why White Canes Connect is currently ranked as one of the 100 Best Visually Impaired Podcast. Find the show on: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-canes-connect/id1592248709  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1YDQSJqpoteGb1UMPwRSuI  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pablindpodcast  Visit our website at https://www.whitecanesconnect.com/.

Young people today face noise, pressure and expectations that can drown out who they really are. I have met many who feel unsure of their path, and I believe this is one of the most important conversations we can have. In this episode, I sit with youth coach Hillary Spiritos, someone who has walked her own winding path from fearless child, to shy young adult, to a coach helping others reconnect with their inner voice. Her honesty about the old messages she carried and the ways she learned to trust herself again offers a lesson for all of us, no matter our age. Hillary and I talk about what young adults face today, why so many feel lost and how simple daily choices can move us away from fear and toward clarity. You will hear how she helps people uncover what they value, build resilience and create a life that feels true. I think you will find this conversation grounding and hopeful. My hope is that it reminds you, just as it reminded me, that we all have the ability to step forward with purpose and live with an Unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:10 – Learn how early life messages shape confidence and identity.01:27 – See why many young adults step back from who they really are.02:54 – Understand how internal stories influence your choices.03:55 – Hear how changing environments helps you discover new parts of yourself.13:42 – Learn how young adults navigate both opportunity and uncertainty.15:36 – Understand why modern pressures make clarity harder to find.19:00 – Discover why resilience begins with facing normal challenges.23:25 – Learn how redefining success opens space for authentic living.25:20 – See how guided reflection builds direction and self trust.39:57 – Discover tools that help you quiet the noise and listen inward. About the Guest: Hillary Spiritos, founder of Bat Outta Hell, is a pathfinding coach dedicated to helping young adults pursue the lives they envision by building self-trust and discovering their potential. She conducts workshops on essential life skills such as leadership development, interviewing, resilience, and maximizing your study abroad experience. Through her coaching, Hillary empowers young adults to navigate social media noise and societal pressures, encouraging them to listen to their inner voice and achieve their unique personal and professional goals. This process helps clients identify their values, overcome obstacles, and embrace their fears, ultimately leading to a fulfilling and authentic life. As a certified pathfinding coach, she offers her clients that unique in-between space to create and execute their life road map. Hillary brings years of experience as an Academic Advisor at NYU and Northeastern University, as well as a background in the corporate sector, both as an employee and freelancer. Ways to connect with Hillary**:** https://batouttahell.net/ https://www.tiktok.com/@bat.outta_hell https://www.linkedin.com/in/hillaryspiritos/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone, wherever you happen to be today, I would like to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and I am your host, Michael hingson, or you can call me Mike, one of those two, no other kind of words, just Mike or Michael. But we're glad you're here, whether you're watching, listening or doing both. And our guest today is a coach. She especially does a lot in coaching and working with youth, young people, and I'm really interested to learn more about that as we go forward. I think it'll be kind of fun. So I would like to welcome Hillary Spiritos to unstoppable mindset, Hillary, we're glad you're here. Thanks for coming. Hillary Spiritos  02:02 Hi, thank you so much for having me. Mike. It's a pleasure to be with you. Michael Hingson  02:06 Well, I think it's a pleasure to be with you too, so I guess it works out both ways, right? Wonderful. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for being here. Why don't we start as I love to do, let's start at the beginning. Tell us sort of about the early Hillary, growing up and all that. Since you know you're dealing with youth and and all that, you were one once. So let's, let's hear about you. Hillary Spiritos  02:29 I was one once, absolutely. So I was a really fearless child. I had a really, like, wild fashion sense. I asked a lot of questions. I was pretty independent. I like to stay in my room and like play with my imagination and and then as I got older, I got a little bit shyer. I got a little bit behind the scenes. I started to I started to back away a little bit and kind of lose touch with who I was. And then I have finally, like when I was in my when I was in university, I really just decided that I didn't really know what I wanted to do, what I wanted to study what I was interested in, and it's been a process to kind of live my fullest, most authentic life, and that is what I want to help young people do. Michael Hingson  03:29 Why did you back away? Why did you become kind of, maybe less outgoing or less adventuresome, if you will? Hillary Spiritos  03:38 I think you know there are multiple reasons for this puberty is not like the least of which, but I would say that I'm a big believer that we are taught these messages when we're younger as children, and they get internalized. And I think I internalized messages that were to make myself smaller, to not cause waves, to just not be as big of a presence, perhaps. And so I you have to kind of rewire that. You have to break free from that, and then you can decide, actually, I'm not at the mercy of these stories that I've been told in these messages that I've gotten. Now, Michael Hingson  04:23 where are you from? Hillary Spiritos  04:24 I'm from New York City. Okay, Michael Hingson  04:27 yeah. Well, you know, New York is a tough place, so you can certainly learn to be outgoing and active there. But I hear what you're saying, yeah. Now, where are you now? Hillary Spiritos  04:39 I live in London, England, Michael Hingson  04:41 okay, yes, a little ways from New York, Hillary Spiritos  04:45 absolutely. But actually not as far as you might Michael Hingson  04:48 think, no, it's only, what a five hour airplane flight, right? Hillary Spiritos  04:53 But it's, it's actually shorter than going to California, yeah? Michael Hingson  04:58 So, yeah. You know well, but what took you to London? Hillary Spiritos  05:06 I have always wanted to live in London, and I really love the arts and culture and comedy scene here. I also am a deep, deep lover of travel, and obviously living on the continent of Europe, just gives me more opportunity to travel in that way and over the weekend, you know. And I also just am a deep believer in international education, study abroad, the ability to have cross cultural experiences, to learn more about yourself and your place in the world and the world itself through experiencing your life and yourself in a different Michael Hingson  05:46 place. Do you have a car, or do you just use the tube and public transportation? I Hillary Spiritos  05:52 use the tube and public transportation mostly. I mean, the thing about Europe is that it's really well connected over train. Michael Hingson  05:59 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that that makes a big difference, because you can get wherever you want to go around Europe fairly easily by train, sure, absolutely, certainly, a lot easier than getting around most places in in the States. Hillary Spiritos  06:19 Yeah, that's that can be true, though. I mean, there is an ease to a car Absolutely, and there's like a lovely I can blast my music and be with my thoughts and be in my own space that a car brings you that the train doesn't, Michael Hingson  06:34 yeah, well, or you use earphones, but it's still not the same. Hillary Spiritos  06:39 Yeah, I have a lot of clients and students who are perhaps in places that they don't have their car, and they find that their car is their safe space, and the space where they can vent and listen to music and just be alone and and they feel fine that they really miss their car. So it's I mean, but I also grew up in New York City, so I, I, it's not a part of my it's not a part of my existence, really. Michael Hingson  07:06 Yeah, you're used to not having a car pretty much. I had a friend when I lived in in Winthrop, Massachusetts for three years. I had a friend. We both worked at the same company, and his philosophy was, buy a car, but don't get anything fancy. Just get a clunker. And when it dies, just leave it and go off and buy another one. And so he never did get any kind of a really high end car. And he had a couple where they died, and he just left them or got got them taken away, and then he went off and got a new Hillary Spiritos  07:43 car. Sure, I guess it's really just what you value. Yeah, absolutely. Michael Hingson  07:50 Well, I'm pretty used to having access to a lot of public transportation. Unfortunately, where I live here in California, we don't have a lot where I live anyway, of great transportation, but I remember living in the east, and of course, there was a lot more train access around New York, around Boston and around Washington, DC, for that matter, compared To out here, absolutely well. So where did you go to college? Hillary Spiritos  08:24 I went. I got my undergraduate degree at Duke University, and then I got my master's in international education at NYU. Michael Hingson  08:33 Okay, and so what was your Bachelor's Hillary Spiritos  08:37 in theater and comparative religion? Michael Hingson  08:41 That's a little different than international education. What prompted you to Hillary Spiritos  08:44 switch? Yeah, so that's a great question. So I actually changed my major in my junior year of college because I didn't believe that anyone would be accepting of me majoring in theater and comparative religion as two separate things, and I didn't think it was good enough, and I had all these judgments again from messaging that I received as a young person, and I finally decided that I wasn't going to listen to that. So I changed my major, and I actually worked in the theater and live events production for five or six years after college, and loved it, but I found that it wasn't fulfilling in the way that I wanted my work to be. It wasn't as soul feeding as I wanted my work to be. And I realized that I was an RA at Duke University, and I I just truly loved working with young adults and helping them find their path and figure out what they wanted to do with their life and who they were and what they valued and and so I found that I really wanted to be in the world of higher education, so I went and got my master's. Michael Hingson  09:49 But you didn't do that right out of getting a bachelor's. It was a little bit later. Hillary Spiritos  09:53 Yeah, it was about five or six years later. Wow. Michael Hingson  09:55 So what did you do for the theater while you were working? Hillary Spiritos  09:58 I. Yeah, I was a stage manager in the theater, and then I was a Live Events Producer, so concerts, festivals, movie premieres, anything like that. I helped Michael Hingson  10:11 produce. Did you do a lot of that around New York? Hillary Spiritos  10:15 Yeah, so New York, LA, I also worked in Boston, actually, both as in the theater, as well as at a university in Boston after I had gotten my masters. So yeah, Michael Hingson  10:29 I always enjoyed going to Broadway shows. There's, there's nothing like live theater. I agree. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just a totally different kind of environment, and it's so much more fun than watching a movie or whatever, the sound is different and better and just the whole performance. There's nothing like seeing something on the stage. Yeah? Hillary Spiritos  10:54 I mean, I think it's all about To each their own. Right? There are actors and people who find that movies have changed their lives and and I definitely have movies that I watch over and over again for comfort, same with TV shows. But for me, personally, the theater, there's nothing like live theater. Live theater is like energizing for me, and if I go too long without seeing it, I get a little Michael Hingson  11:18 Yeah, well, you're in a in a town that has a fair amount Hillary Spiritos  11:22 of theater? Absolutely, yes. Michael Hingson  11:25 So what are your favorite movies? Oh, oh. Hillary Spiritos  11:30 I mean, I guess it depends on what genre we're talking about. But I really love the genre of, like, inspirational sports movies. I that also I remember watching all of those and just really resonating with the character of the coach and realizing that that's kind of who I wanted to be in life, that person who recognized the potential and helped everybody reach their potential. So I loved, you know, the Karate Kid and Mighty Ducks and, like the replacements and strictly ballroom and and miracle and, you know, any Rocky, Michael Hingson  12:10 you name it, yeah, A League of Their Own. Hillary Spiritos  12:14 Oh, League of Their Own is incredible. Michael Hingson  12:16 Absolutely, yeah, I always like the league of their own. Yeah, Hillary Spiritos  12:19 the natural is also a great fact be the natural. Michael Hingson  12:22 And I read the book long after seeing the movie, but I, but I read the book, and that was worth reading as well. Hillary Spiritos  12:32 I think I've also read it, but I'm not, I can't. Michael Hingson  12:38 Yeah, it's been a long time since since I've read it, but it was fun. I don't know my probably one of my favorite movies, and I love to quote it all the time. Goes away from sports. It's Young Frankenstein, but I'm a Mel Brooks fan. So what can I say? Oh yeah. Hillary Spiritos  12:55 Oh yeah. I mean, that's an incredible film, too. And I would say I love a lot of movies that are not inspirational sports movies as well, but yeah for sure, Michael Hingson  13:03 yeah, and I've always liked Casablanca. That's still one of my favorite movies of all time. Hillary Spiritos  13:09 Classic, absolutely, Michael Hingson  13:11 a classic, absolutely yes. But there's still nothing like going to see things on Broadway. You know, I used to see, I watched Damn Yankees the movie, and then when I lived back in the east, we got to see Damn Yankees on Broadway. I actually saw it twice. The second time was with Jerry Lewis playing Mr. Applegate, the devil, and it was the only thing he ever did on Broadway. And we, before we went to see it, there was a my wife read an interview with him, and he said his father had told him, you won't have really ever arrived in entertainment until you do something on Broadway. Well, he did a great job in the play. It was well worth seeing. Hillary Spiritos  14:00 Well, yeah, I mean that that's a challenging statement for sure. And I think it depends how you how he took that right, but that can also be very disheartening, Michael Hingson  14:11 yeah, yeah, well, he took it, he took it the right way. And, and, you know, he, I think he thought his dad was, was hoping his dad was watching from wherever his dad was and saw him on Broadway, but Broadway plays are fun, and I've seen a number on Broadway, and I've seen some plays not on Broadway, but still, people did a great job well. So you anyway, you did theater, and then you went back and got your master's degree, and you wanted to deal with young people. Why? Specifically just young people? Hillary Spiritos  14:50 I think that young adults are exist in such an incredible but volatile space. So like throughout life, we go through on this track of all pretty much doing the same things at the same time, at the same pace with everybody else. And then when we meet or when we get to university, there just becomes so many more paths, and paths start to diverge, and everyone starts to get a little bit mixed up, and then once you're out of university, then that happens even more, and that can be a period of incredible opportunity and possibility and excitement, but it can also be a time of really a lot of anxiety and challenges and obstacles and fear of the unknown, and I think that that is a really exciting, interesting, dynamic place to be. I also just love the ethos of young people, of I'm not going to take that this is the way it's always been done, mentality. I'm not going to just let whatever is going on in the world wash over me. I'm going to actually take a stand. I'm I'm going to stand for what I believe in. And I think that's just a really, I mean, there are some real fierce young people out here, out here, and so that's really uplifting and really motivating and energizing to see. Michael Hingson  16:18 Do you think that it's different now than it was, say, 30 or 40 years ago, in terms of dealing with youth and young people in terms of what they face and how they face it. Has it? Has it changed much? Or do you think it's really basically the same? And of course, the other logical question is, Is it easier or harder now? Hillary Spiritos  16:39 Absolutely, so I think that it is absolutely part of the human condition to try to figure out who you are and what you want, and that is something that young people are constantly dealing with at every generation. So that's absolutely true, but I do believe that there are certain things that make it harder for this generation, the Gen Z and Millennial like cohort, I think that whether that's the covid pandemic, social media, helicopter or lawn mower, snow plow, parenting, whatever you want to call it, that just this general state of the world, there are all of These structures and systems in place that are crumbling and broken, that young adults are having to get a grip and understand and find their feet in a world that is constantly shifting and and not meeting their needs. So I think it is definitely, I mean, harder is challenging to rank, right? Because, like, obviously, there are very hard challenges in various generations, but I do think it is very different. Michael Hingson  17:49 Well, you know, in 1917, 18, we had the pandemic of the flu. So it's not like this is the first time we've ever had that, but sure, it just seems to me, with everything that's going on today, with with social media, with instantaneous communications and so on, and probably other things where a number of people are raised in fear oriented environments, it is definitely a lot more challenging to be a youth growing up today. They're just too many challenges, much less you mentioned helicopter and other kinds of parents, I would assume that they're operating more out of fear than anything else, which is why they do what they do. Hillary Spiritos  18:36 Well, that's interesting. I think they absolutely could be operating out of fear, and they can be operating out of the I want you to reach this echelon. I want you to do this thing, have this job, so that you will be secure and safe. However, we know that that's not a given, right? There's no such thing as security in that way. But I would also say there's a way to be operating out of a projection of what they wish that they lived, and they're passing that along to their children as well. So there are various ways that it can manifest Michael Hingson  19:12 that's probably been somewhat true though, through most generations, although it may be a little bit more the case now, because there's so many outside forces, and they want to keep their kids from having to put up with all of that. Hillary Spiritos  19:23 Yeah, I would also say that their parenting used to be a little bit more hands off, and it is now. Let me remove the obstacles from my children's lives and let me and that's a generalization. Obviously, not all parents are like that, but there is a big push to let me make it somewhat easier, and that's not to say don't support your children, and that's not to say don't help them out. That's not to you know, but in removing all the obstacles, young people aren't given the opportunity to build. Of the self reliance and the resilience and the self trust that they need to move forward, Michael Hingson  20:05 yeah, and it may ultimately come down to, how many of the obstacles are you really removing, but? But that is true, that they make it they think easier. But the reality is, there are reasons why we all have to go through different situations to learn Hillary Spiritos  20:26 Sure, absolutely, I think if you, if you don't develop resilience or self reliance or grit, I think that that is, that is going to be a very challenging life until you learn to really develop those traits, those skills, tools, Michael Hingson  20:46 I know for students with disabilities. And this goes back 50 years. I know here in California, a number of the colleges and universities started hiring people to run offices for students with disabilities, and they would come in and Oh, we'll get we'll, we'll, we'll make sure you have your textbooks, we'll make sure you have a place to take your tests. And they do any number of things for students that some of us who grew up a little bit before those offices realized that the offices were were really creating more of a problem than a great solution, because they did everything for students, rather than students learning to do things for themselves. Students didn't learn how to hire people to read information for them, or how to go to professors and advocate for what they needed, because they just relied on the offices. And the offices would say, well, students don't know how to do those things, yeah, and they never will. It's the same, it's the same kind of concept. But you know, the reality is that there is a reason why there is value in having challenges put before you to overcome and deal with Hillary Spiritos  22:07 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, it helps you recognize what you're capable of, and it also helps you realize that you have been through maybe something difficult previously, or you've gone outside of your comfort zone or tried something new or whatever, there's precedence there that you can do something like that again, and if you don't have those experiences, then you are unsure. I mean, I have clients who have not built up these experiences, or they don't recognize the experiences that they've had, and that's part of the work that we do, is that then they just feel so unprepared to go out in the world because they don't know what they're made of. Michael Hingson  22:47 Yeah, yeah. And it is, it is a real challenge. And you know, the other part about it is that what referring back to the offices for students with disabilities, what the offices should be doing, is encouraging students to to do the work, and then saying, this is what, what I actually went through, and then actually saying, if you have a problem and you can't get the things that you know you need to have, will help you. We will. We will bring the resources of the university to, for example, to to bear, to get you what you need. But you have to be the one to initiate it. And I think that's the issue. Hillary Spiritos  23:32 Sure, absolutely, it's it's it's the it's the asking questions without trying to figure out what the answer is yourself, or trying to find the answer yourself. And I think that can be manifest in many ways, and I think that that is also indicative of like a larger of a larger system, which is not being able to trust that you can figure it out, not being able to trust that you have the answer or that you can, like, trust your inner voice or your gut, and so you look outward and that so it can be part of a task, but it can also just be. It can manifest in your just general life. Speaker 1  24:14 Yeah. So what does redefining success mean today for young people, and how do they separate their goals from what society expects them to do, or societal expectations? Hillary Spiritos  24:28 Yeah, absolutely. So, as I kind of alluded to before, is that we learn these definitions. We learn these we have these messaging from when we were younger, and we learn what success means, what failure means, what courage is, and we start to internalize what we think other people will see as acceptable or good enough. And what we need to do is unpack that and. Try to redefine success and failure and all the rest of it for ourselves so that we can live our own lives and not be at the mercy of our prior messaging, childhood wounds of our parents, hopes and dreams and fears, perhaps what people of people in society might deem as not good enough, or not interesting, or whatever we want to live according to what we think we value. And so that would that's what redefining success means. Speaker 1  25:32 How do you teach people how to redefine success? You you have a coaching process that I assume that you use. So what is that? How does all that work? Hillary Spiritos  25:42 Yeah, so it's a three month process, and it's called aligned and alive. And the first month is helping young adults really get to the root of who they really are, what they really value, and what they really want their life to look like. And it is going deep, and it is being honest and answering those questions outside of societal expectations, and cutting through the noise to the best of their ability. And then the second month is really honing in on what is blocking you from going after the life you want, from imagining the life you want to create, and creating the life you imagine. And then the third month is reevaluating those what we those of things that we talked about in the first month, so who you really are, what you really value, and what you really want your life to look like. These things probably have changed over the course of this time, as you've kind of uncovered new aspects of yourself, and then we create an actionable strategic plan so that you're not just going off into the world unprepared and feeling unprepared to kind of take the next step. And there are absolutely follow up calls to just make sure that you feel the most secure and that you if you have any questions or kind of feel like you want to check in, that's absolutely acceptable and possible and hope like I hope you will and we will set up. And there are also people who don't work on this three month platform, but they also just meet with me regularly. So it's it depends on what you're looking for. This isn't a one size fits all situation. Michael Hingson  27:24 Yeah, what? Which makes sense? It it shouldn't be a one size fits all because everyone is a little bit different. Needless to say, absolutely. So I didn't mention it before, but we should talk about what is the name of your company? Hillary Spiritos  27:39 So the name of my company is called bat out of hell. There you go. Michael Hingson  27:44 See how did you come up with that? It's I think it's great. Hillary Spiritos  27:48 Thank you. I really love and have a kinship with bats. I think that bats are highly adaptable, perceptive, social creatures, and they spend a lot of their time upside down, so they see the world in a different perspective, and they symbolize transformation and rebirth and the shedding of the old to come into the new and out of the darkness and into the light, all of which I really resonate with and want the energy of the business. And then I also am not a one size fits all cookie cutter coach, let alone person. And I, and I wanted a name that kind of had that ethos, had that a bit of rock and roll in it, if you will. And so, yeah, I feel like it's has real momentum to it, and a real edge, which is great. Michael Hingson  28:44 And so you, of course, feel a great kinship for the TV show in the movies Batman, right? Just checking, Hillary Spiritos  28:51 yeah. I mean, there is, I'm not the biggest Batman fan, Marvel or super, but I will say there I did talk about this with people about how Batman, if I'm correct, embraced what he was most afraid of, and took that to help him fight the bad villains in Gotham. And so that is an incredible thing to do, to take what is blocking you, to take those fears, anxieties and and insecurities, and recognize where they come from, own them to and understand how they influence and manifest in your everyday life, so that you're not at the mercy of them. That's basically what Batman does. And that's great. That's dope. Michael Hingson  29:37 I think that happened probably more in movies than in the TV series, but that's Sure. Adam West was an interesting character for TV, but that that's fine. I actually sat a row in front of him on an airplane flight once, he was a whole lot different on the airplane than he was as Batman was interesting. Did you talk to him? No. He didn't have any interest in talking to anybody except, I guess it was his agent or or someone who he was with, and that was the only person he talked with. Okay, that's that's a lot. What do you do? You know, well, so the the thing is, though, that I think you're right. Batman, like anyone had fears and he and especially in the movies, he learned to embrace them and did the things that he needed to do. He he chose his life, although there were things that that led him to do it, he still chose his life and operated accordingly. And that's something that we all have the opportunity to do, is we can make choices. I think it's important that we monitor our choices. That is when we choose things. I can I can go back many years in my life and see how I got to where I am today by the choices that I made. And I think that's a thing that is worth people doing, is being introspective and and thinking about what you do, what you did, and how you got where you are, not in any kind of a blame way, but rather just to know, and that also helps you then decide where do we go from here, Hillary Spiritos  31:25 absolutely, to constantly or consistently, take stock of who you are and what you want, and to ask yourself questions of, is that true? Is that actually what I want? Is that actually what I value? Is that what I believe is, Am I doing this because somebody else says I should? Am I doing this because I don't want to be embarrassed, like, am I excited to do this, or excited and anxious, or do I just really not want to do it? All of these questions are really important to continually ask ourselves. But I think if you haven't learned to ask yourself those questions, or if you're feeling really lost at sea, or if you're feeling like you really just don't know how to cut out the noise, then it might be beneficial to talk to somebody. But absolutely, that's something that that's being introspective and reflective is is vital? Michael Hingson  32:19 Yeah, I think that's extremely important to do, and it's it's also all about working to keep fear from controlling you, and learning how to control fear. And the more you look at like, what, what you do every day. And I encourage people, as they're going to sleep at night, to be introspective. What happened today? What? Why did I react to that? Why? Why was I afraid? What can I learn from that, or even the good stuff that went really well, but how might I do it better? Being introspective and really listening to your inner voice helps a lot in being able to deal with fear. Hillary Spiritos  33:01 Absolutely, absolutely. I think it's the question of, are you able to listen to the to your inner voice? Do you trust your inner voice? Do you listen to your inner voice? Is there a reason why, even though you hear it, you're not doing it? Is there a reason why you're not taking the steps to engage with your life the way that you want. Do you not even know what the life you want to create is? And I think that these are really like listening to your inner voice is absolutely critical. It's vital. But sometimes it's not the easiest thing to do, Michael Hingson  33:38 no because we haven't learned to do it. The more we work at it, the easier it becomes. It's a matter of really exercising that muscle that is our mind. Because we can learn to trust that inner voice. We can learn to listen to that inner voice, but we have to make the choice to do it. No one else can do that for us, absolutely. Hillary Spiritos  33:59 And I think that's that's really important information, right? Because we're the ones that have to live with the consequences of our choices. We have to live. We're the ones who have to live in our lives, so to look outward for answers rather than looking inward. While it might feel more comfortable and you feel like, oh, that way I want won't make mistakes, or people will deem it acceptable, because I've I've taken the census, and everybody thinks that this is what I should do. It doesn't save you from you're the one who actually has to go through the motions, and you might be living someone else's life, and you're going to realize that at some point or another. Yeah. Michael Hingson  34:43 And, and, I guess, in a sense, hopefully you will realize it and use that to advance and go forward and more. Learn to listen to your inner voice and more. Learn to not be afraid of so many things. Yeah. Hillary Spiritos  34:57 And, I think that it's you. It's lovely to recognize that and try to get on the right path, or let's say, your path earlier rather than later. Yeah, because what you don't want is to necessarily look back and realize that you've lived your life according to someone else. It's the number one regret of the dying, right? So obviously, we do that to the best of our abilities, because all we can do is make the best decisions with the information that we have at the time. So it's keep it's a constant constant, trying to figure it out, but you we want to get on that. We want to live our most authentic life as as much as possible. Michael Hingson  35:41 Sure, you talk a lot, or you refer to reclaiming your 20s and 30s and so on. And I think that's an interesting thing, because it's it was a probably most people view it as a simpler time in life. But what are some of the misconceptions that people actually have about their 20s and 30s, and how do you refrain from dealing with uncertainty and turn it into opportunity? Hillary Spiritos  36:12 Yeah, that's really an interesting question, and it's a way really interesting way of phrasing it, because when you're older, you do tend to say, Oh, if only I, like, realized this in my 20s, because the or, like, what I could tell my 20 year old or 30 year old self is because actually, your 20s and 30s are fraught with a lot of challenges and a lot of insecurities and a lot of fears, and They're actually not necessarily simple times, but I would say some misconceptions are that you need to have it all figured out, that you're running out of time, that it's too late, or that you're behind, that everybody else has it figured out, and you you're lost, that your 20s are for figuring things out, and then once you hit your 30s, you're supposed To have it all figured out, and all your ducks in a row, the idea that your path is straight, and once you make a decision, then you're off to the races. And like you don't ever have to think about it again. If I could just pick the right career, pick the right partner, pick the right industry, I'll just be done. And that's that's not how life works. No. So I would say that we want to reframe uncertainty and all of these questions as opportunity. And so life is uncertain. And so when you learn to see uncertainty as possibility and obstacles as opportunity for growth, then you will begin to have more forward momentum, have live your live a more authentic life, and learn more about yourself and gain self trust and resilience and self reliance. And that's that's what we want to learn how to do in our 20s and 30s and beyond Michael Hingson  38:00 and beyond, because the reality is, it's all part of the same thing. Hillary Spiritos  38:04 Sure, absolutely, yeah, Michael Hingson  38:08 it, it may or may not get any simpler, or maybe we learn enough things that it looks like it's simpler, but because we've learned certain things that help us get through whatever it is we have to get through. But the reality is, it's all about learning. I think, yeah, go ahead. Hillary Spiritos  38:27 No, I just I think it absolutely is. So I think it's about if you start to recognize this in your 20s and 30s, you will as you go older, the wisdom comes with recognizing that you've done things like this. You've got a lot in your backpack. You have a lot of tools, you have a lot of experiences. You have the wisdom that comes with that. You have the self reliance and the self assurance that comes with that. And you know that you're going to be okay. You know that you can get through it because you've done it. So I think what being an adult means is, am I do I trust myself? Am I secure in who I am? Am I someone? Can I soothe myself? These are questions, rather than like, do I have the home, the kids, the you know, the traditional markers of adulthood really don't mean anything anymore. But what's really important is, Am I okay with me, and how do I want to engage in the world? Michael Hingson  39:22 Yeah, and the reality is that it is, I think, going back to something we talked about before, it is tougher today, because there are just so many external meth or things that influence or that try to influence, and it probably is a lot more difficult than it than it used to be, because towns are larger, there are more people around. You've got social media, you've got so many other things that you face daily, probably a number of which we didn't used to face, or at least not to the same degree. So. It is more of a challenge than it used to be. Hillary Spiritos  40:03 Sure, it's definitely it's definitely different, but I do believe that say that there are inflection points, right? And I do think that the advent of social media is a huge inflection point, and something that is not beneficial for young adults of today. Yeah, and it is in many ways detrimental and so but it is something that is here, and it is something that young adults have to navigate. How Michael Hingson  40:35 do you teach them to deal with all of that, all the noise, all the social media and everything else, because it's all there. And I'm sure that you as a coach, face this, because you hear it from the people that you work with. Well, but all this is going on. How do you teach people to know what to cut out, or how to cut out a lot of that, to be able to get back to that, I've got to really know me absolutely. Hillary Spiritos  41:02 So there are many tools that one can engage with. So there's actually sitting quietly and reflecting like literally cutting out the noise. There are mindfulness practices and meditation, there's journaling, and there's getting out in nature and exercise and dance and creative expression, and there are definitely tools in which you can get out of your head and into the body and and learn to literally cut out the noise. But I think what's really important is to figure out what resonates for each person, because, as we've said, everybody is different. But in particular for social media like it is really important to have an awareness of why you're using it so it feels like a neutral platform, or maybe it doesn't anymore. People are waking up to it, but it's optimized for engagement, and what you're seeing is someone's projected, curated reality. And so you want to ask yourself why you're doing it. You don't want to sit there and mindlessly scroll. You want to ask yourself what you're trying to get out of it. Are you looking for connection or validation, or creative inspiration or connection? And that can help you navigate through and help you realize what you want to get out from it, and not just like take it all in mindlessly, and we want to obviously be skeptical, skeptical of the information, and we want to limit our use, if not cut it out fully. And it's not a replacement for human connection. A lot of people we have feel like have a loneliness epidemic, because it's not, while social media does connect people, it's not a replacement for human to human connection. So it's really important to keep that in your life. And so I think it's just really important to continually engage with these questions of why you're engaging with it, and what it makes you feel, and how does it serve you? And do you want to be at the mercy of that? And the more you start to question it, the more you can break down those ties, Michael Hingson  43:16 yeah, and the more of that you do, then again, the more you're practicing some of that introspection that we talked about earlier, absolutely, which is really what it's all about. There's nothing wrong with, I don't want to call it second guessing, but there's nothing wrong with thinking about what you're doing, what you did, and using all of that as a learning experience. Life's an adventure. We should we should take it that way. Hillary Spiritos  43:43 Well, that's absolutely true as well. It's like all of these experiences are experiences. All of these are adventures. All of these are opportunities for growth, learning more about ourselves. And I don't want to minimize or belittle the fact that everyone needs to your life needs to be sustainable. You need to be able to like, live your life financially. So it's not like it's all fluff and but I do think it's important to recognize that this is all just a learning experience. Nobody really knows what they're doing. We're all trying to figure it out. So it's okay to take a little bit, cut yourself a little bit of slack, and be nicer to yourself and and it's actually really important to cut out the critical voice in your head, because that that is actually a huge reason of why you are feeling Michael Hingson  44:38 stuck. Yeah, I've said many times on this podcast that one of the things that I've learned over the last couple of years is to stop saying I'm my own worst critic. I used to do that because I will like to record speeches when I travel and speak publicly, and I come back and listen to them, and I always just sort of quickly. He said, I'm my own worst critic. I want to really listen to it, because if I don't tell me, nobody else will. And I realized what a negative thing to say. And I finally realized I should be saying I'm my own best teacher. Because in reality, no one can teach me anything. They can provide me with information, but I'm the only one that can truly teach me or open me up for learning Hillary Spiritos  45:21 that's beautiful. I love that I definitely have realized over the course of my life, that I have and I have certain narratives. We all do have certain narratives and stories that we've told ourselves about who we are as people that are actually quite negative and like we're not this kind of person, or we're not capable of this, or we're not the kind of person that does that, and it's actually limiting, and it's not going to help us in the long run Michael Hingson  45:50 well, and we've got to get over this negativity. Just also you do, yeah, the other thing is, I don't like failure. I don't like the term failure because it is so negative, I think that things don't always work out the way we expect. And if we view it as a failure, that's an end, but it's not. It is okay. Something happened. It didn't go the way I wanted. What can I learn from that? And that's the part I think that most of us miss. We don't take that step to really step back or jump back a little bit and go. What do I learn from this that will help me not make the same judgment as as last time? Will not make it go the same way. How do I make it go better next time? Hillary Spiritos  46:35 Yeah, and I think it definitely doesn't help that as young people, we are. We are like system, systemically taught to believe that grades and achievement is of the utmost importance, and the worst grade you can get is an F, and that means it's not good enough. Like that is the lesson we are learned. We are taught over and over and over again. So it is obviously not hard to deduce why we have this definition of failure. Yeah, and obviously our parents and other people in our community perhaps might have such fears, as we've talked about previously in this conversation, that might be like, if you do this, then you might fail at this. You like don't necessarily pursue this career, you might fail at this, and that's perceived to be a really bad thing. Yeah, but as you're saying, If you again, a failure is another way to read, another word that you may need to redefine. Because failure doesn't mean we're terrible. Failure doesn't mean we're incapable. Failure doesn't mean that we should, we should be never like we should stop doing this all together. It's not, it's not a judgment of our self worth. It's just a data point to help us realize, oh, this is not something that I maybe want to engage with, or, oh, I need to learn a little bit more about this, or whatever it might be. I also think it's important to recognize that failure, really, in my opinion, is not trying and not living the life that you want to live. It's if I believe that you can understand failure as like I'm just abdicating my responsibility to make these choices to somebody else, and I'm going to live the life that they've laid out for me, or not trying the things that you want to do, those could be perceived as failure. That's really the only way that can happen. The other Michael Hingson  48:32 part about it, though, is sometimes there may be some other cause for you're not succeeding at doing something. For sure, it could be you're dyslexic, and you don't, you don't do well at reading things, and nobody has diagnosed that. Nobody's figured that out, which is, again, another reason why it's always good for you to be analytical about what you do and and be introspective, or be willing to ask, Hillary Spiritos  49:00 absolutely, that's a great point, absolutely, Michael Hingson  49:05 because all too often we just tend to make assumptions. As you've pointed out, yeah, Hillary Spiritos  49:14 you always want to ask yourself, Is it true and how does that serve me? How does that belief serve me? Is it keeping me stuck? Michael Hingson  49:21 Right? Well, how do you help your clients navigate fear, and especially the fear of disappointing others and so on, as they're growing up and as they're gaining more experience? Hillary Spiritos  49:35 So this is actually definitely what we've been partially done, right? So it's redefining these, redefining failure for yourself and like or with any you know, just thought or assumption and asking yourself, Is it true? How does that serve you? Do you want to live at the mercy of that thought or belief and the fear of disappointing others? Is really interesting, because, as what we said before, it's not it's not someone else's life, it's your life, and you're the one who was to exist in that world. And it's also interesting, just as a note to recognize, sometimes we think we're going to disappoint somebody, because we assume what their response is going to be, but we've actually never had that conversation with them. So is that even true? Like, have you even had that conversation with them? Because we can often scare ourselves with these assumptions of what we think their response is going to be. So if we really don't even take the time to ask, but we're like, oh my god, we're paralyzed by the fear of of what we think they'll say. Then that's something we want to break through. And I also just think again, it's really important to recognize that you we want to build and form a relationship with our inner child, and so the way to live your fullest, fiercest, most authentic life and live the life you imagine is by creating a relationship with your inner child, because that is where your spark, your creativity, your passion, your zest for life, lives, but it's also where your fears and securities and anxieties live. But when you recognize that you are a composite of all of that, that is true, self love, and you can give that to yourself and other people, and also, again, when you recognize and own your fears and securities and anxieties, you're not at the mercy of them. And you can decide, I'm not going to bow down to them. I am going to move forward, I'm going to muster up the courage to move forward in the face of these fears and do what I want to do. Yeah, Michael Hingson  51:49 which makes a lot of sense. Well, you know, one of the things that I was wondering, how long have you been coaching? Let me ask that. Hillary Spiritos  51:56 So I opened up my business during the pandemic, so in 2020 but I've been doing this work for a lot longer than working in universities. Michael Hingson  52:09 So what did you do at universities? You worked in academia a long time? Hillary Spiritos  52:13 Yeah, so I was an academic advisor, and I got the reputation of being like my meetings just happened to run a lot longer, and I was not interested in having transactional conversations with students. I was more interested in trying to figure out who they are and what they wanted and why they weren't going after that, and what they wanted to major in, and what they wanted from their college career and beyond. And we got deep sometimes. And so, yeah, I was, I was someone who who just dug a little bit deeper for sure, Michael Hingson  52:45 well, and you I would think because of that, made students really think and become a lot more analytical about themselves. Hillary Spiritos  52:56 Yeah, I think it's really important to recognize why you are doing something, you know, I I ran into students, and I still have clients today who feel like if they don't know what they want to do, they should study business, or they really love art and drawing, or fashion or what, or some creative field, and their parents say that that's not good enough, and that they should study business or go into medical School or what have you like, there are lots of things that we accept as true or like, you know, maybe, oh, I can't study something in the humanities. I won't get a job from that. That's not important. You know, there are a lot of things we accept as true based on what society tells us, what society values, seemingly, what our parents and our community value, and it's really important to start questioning that and asking if that's really what we want to do. Because if you don't know what you want to do, and you think you're going to study business, because that's a catch all, but you actually realize that you don't enjoy math and you don't want to spend your day in front of a computer, you don't want like then you're going to be miserable. And it's really important to recognize that that's okay to not want that. Speaker 1  54:04 I really think one of the most important things to get out of college, and for those who don't go to college, then you get it from high school or from alternative ways. But I think that one of the most important things is not even necessarily dealing with your major but it is all this whole concept of character development. It's all the other lessons that you learn because you're in an environment where you have to do things differently than you expected that you were going to based on what your parents and other people told you. And I think that's one of the most important things that we could ever have happened to us is that we step out away from at some point in our lives, our Michael Hingson  54:48 growing up period, and we really put ourselves in an environment where we have to discover new things again. That's all part of life and being adventurous. Yeah. Hillary Spiritos  54:58 I mean, as someone who has worked at. Academia for a long time and still does a little bit of hot gossip. I absolutely believe that academics is probably the least important part of college. Michael Hingson  55:09 Yeah, I wasn't going to say that directly, but I agree. Hillary Spiritos  55:14 Yeah, it is mostly what is real. I mean, sure it's very important to learn things absolutely, but it is really important to engage with different perspectives, learn adaptability and communication and time management, and figure out who you are and what you value and what your place in the world, and what impact you want to have on the world, and how to navigate systems that you're unfamiliar with, and how to, how to engage in the world the way you want to. I mean, to try new things, take classes that you think you might be interested in, or like that are totally not, not related to your major, like whatever it is. I think it's absolutely 100% I agree. Speaker 1  55:56 The other part about it is, though, there are also a lot of people who who won't go to college, but doesn't look they don't have the opportunity to do that same learning. Absolutely, oh absolutely. Yeah, there are a lot of ways to get it. Makes a lot of sense, sure, Hillary Spiritos  56:11 and, and, and that's definitely true in general, but especially within the states. And I think this is the case worldwide. Education is often becoming inaccessible for a lot of people, and so you can absolutely engage this part of your life, in your job, in in volunteer work, out in your community, whatever it might be, absolutely it's just the question of the energy and the motivation and the intent that you bring. Michael Hingson  56:44 Yeah, what does leadership mean to you, and how do you work to help young people learn or start to learn, to lead authentically? Hillary Spiritos  56:54 So leadership, to me, is not a title. It's a behavior. It's a sense of self. So it's vision, it's integrity, it's It's empathy, it's courage, communication, authenticity, resourcefulness, all of these things, resilience, to tolerate discomfort and risk taking and so knowing yourself is crucial. What are your strengths? What do you enjoy? What do you value? What are your goals? How do you want to spend your time? What do you stand for? What impact do you want to have? And so we want to practice empathy and active listening to for ourselves and other people. So that means, again, like stopping the critical voice, not judging yourself, asking yourself if this is really what you want, really checking in with yourself and getting to know yourself. We want to build resilience and self reliance and self trust. So again, practicing obstacles is opportunity and for growth and learning how to emotionally regulate yourself and embrace risk taking and the unknown. And we want to cultivate our communication skills, so cultivating our own voice and understanding our own narrative again, as we spoke about and learn to have difficult conversations and not being afraid of somebody else's response and being okay with how they respond, and not taking it as a as like something about yourself criticism, right? As a criticism, exactly, and so, and then be just being a lifelong learner, right? So it's about life is, God willing, hopefully long, and you will pivot, and you will grow and change and embrace that opportunity, and don't be afraid of the fact that things might change. And this is, again, learning to listen to your inner voice, yeah, Michael Hingson  58:55 well, and I think that that's really, of course, once again, probably goes out saying that's what it's really all about. Well, how about I think some people say Gen Z isn't really prepared for the real world. What do you think about that? Yeah, I'm still trying to decide what the real world is. But anyway, Hillary Spiritos  59:16 right? So there, there are some assumptions made in that question, right about what the real world is, and and I also, but I want to focus on what the word I'm prepared really, yeah, because perhaps Gen Z is, quote, unquote unprepared in the way that traditional markers might understand. But millennials and Gen Z really grew up in a different world that is shaped by technology and mental health awareness and global crisis crises and social media. That doesn't mean they're unprepared, it just means they're prepared differently, and so in many ways, actually, Gen Z is more equipped to understand the complexity. The modern world. They're digitally fluent. They're able to understand mental health and diversity and inclusion. They question outdated systems that are broken and that are not working for the world and people in the world. And so what gives me hope is that people are not accepting that this is how it's always been been done, mentality, their purpose and mission driven. They're extremely adaptable. Have great emotional awareness, and they're willing to speak out and challenge norms. And so I truly believe that young people are the stewards of our planet, and the more that they live with curiosity and passion and compassion and empathy, the more that they can contribute to healing and transforming the world around them. So instead of like labeling them as unprepared, we should recognize that the world that they're stepping into and the world that we've created is unlike anything we've ever seen before, and we're trying to, like, build the plane as we're flying it. So it's really important to to not belittle them, and not talk down to young people as it seems like a lot of people do, and recognize that actually, young adults have a lot to teach the people who are in these systems that actually, seemingly aren't working anymore well. Michael Hingson  1:01:23 And the reality is, of course, who is really the unprepared? And it's it's also true that so many people have not learned to navigate the world that we've been creating and that we continue to create, and maybe they're the ones that really need to learn how to become more prepared by becoming more involved in some of these things that young people are learning to do automatically or on their own? Hillary Spiritos  1:01:50 Absolutely, absolutely. Michael Hingson  1:01:53 Yeah, well, in reality, to go back to an old joke, we'll know if people are really prepared if they can work VCRs, right? Okay, remember that nobody could work a VCR. They were always so complicated. And now, of course, we don't even know what VCRs are today. But I mean, the Hillary Spiritos  1:02:14 young people that I talked to don't know what VCRs are. You know what that's you know, the world keeps moving there. Michael Hingson  1:02:24 Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It dawned on me a couple of years ago as a as a public speaker, that I'm now speaking in a world where we have a whole generation that has grown up without any memory of September 11, and it's an amazing thing to think about, but it has helped me learn how to tell my story better, so that I can, as I like to say it, bring people into the building and have them go down the stairs with me, Have them deal with everything that I dealt with, and be able to come out the other side better for the experience. And I think that's extremely important to be able to do, because so many people don't have a memory of it. And even for the adults who who do for most people, the World Trade Center experience is only as big as their newspaper photographs or their television screens anyway. Hillary Spiritos  1:03:25 Yeah, I think it is really important to recognize what everybody's actual lived reality is and what everybody's understanding of the world is, and so talking to young people who perhaps are not who did not live through September 11, or who did not live through or perhaps didn't, was weren't able to vote or didn't weren't, like, engaged in the Obama era of like, hope and engagement in politics in that way, or Millennials who were younger in the September 11, like it really, it's meeting people where they are, yep, and recognizing that that is their understanding of what America is, what the world looks like, what how they want to how they want to engage, what work looks like, what their view of their Future is, yeah, and recognizing all that's different. Speaker 1  1:04:21 I agree. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful, and I'm glad Hillary we had a chance to do this, and I want to thank you for being here and giving us a lot of great insights. And I hope that people will take some of this to heart, if people want to reach out to you, maybe to use some of your skills as a coach and so on, how do they do that? Yeah, Hillary Spiritos  1:04:41 absolutely. So my website is bat out of hell.net, Michael Hingson  1:04:47 and my Tiktok out of O, U T, T, A, yes, just want to make sure we spell it so, Hillary Spiritos  1:04:55 yes, B, A, T, o, u T, T, A, H, E, l, l.net, And then my Tiktok and Instagram are B, A, T, dot, O, U, T, T, A, underscore, hell. And if you would like to start working with me, I am absolutely taking on new clients, or we can schedule a consultation call so you can get to know me and the way I work and see if it's the right fit. So I would love to hear from you. Absolutely, we're we'll get through this together. Michael Hingson  1:05:24 Do you coach people all over the world? Hillary Spiritos  1:05:25 I do. I coach people all over the world. I coach individually, one on one coaching. I have group coaching, and I and I do workshops and seminars, so we can be in touch in various different ways. But yeah, I love, I love coaching. Michael Hingson  1:05:42 Well, super well. Thank you again. And I want to thank all of you for being here, and I hope that this has been useful and that you've learned something from it, and I hope that you'll reach out to Hillary, because she's got a lot to offer. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what you think of today's episode. So please feel free to email me. Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, we'd love it if wherever you're listening or watching the podcast today, if you'll give us a five star rating, we value that your ratings very highly. Love your thoughts and your input, so please give it. We really appreciate you doing it, and for all of you and Hillary, including you, if you know anyone else who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, we're always looking for more people who want to come on and tell their stories to help us all see why we can be and should be more unstoppable than we think we are. So please provide introductions, always looking for more people to chat with. But again, Hillary, I just want to th

You'll hear a remarkable story today about how strength grows when we choose to show up for one another. I enjoyed my time with Tracy Huff because her path—from a middle-child in Illinois to Army service, to a fourth-degree black belt, to running a school that shapes young leaders—shows how purpose often finds us in unexpected ways. As Tracy shares how martial arts helped her support her son, rebuild her own confidence, and guide families through stress, fear, and change, you will see how her approach reflects what I've believed for years: leadership begins with presence, patience, and trust. Our conversation reminded me that we all have the ability to raise the bar for ourselves and those around us, and I believe you'll find her insights helpful as you continue your own unstoppable journey. Highlights: 00:10 – Learn how community shapes a stronger mindset01:56 – See how new spaces spark new purpose05:16 – Understand how early roles influence leadership06:26 – Learn how helping a child reveals hidden strengths08:58 – See why trusting yourself builds confidence10:17 – Learn how life's turns create unexpected growth21:23 – Discover how kids thrive with early leadership skills25:12 – Learn how parents guide with calm communication28:24 – See how responsibility helps kids find their voice36:46 – Learn why presence beats control in stressful moments44:34 – Understand how self-respect creates real authority About the Guest: Tracy Huff is a 4th-degree black belt, military veteran, and leadership coach helping women and parents ditch burnout and lead with calm, clarity, and confidence. She's the creator of the Power Under Pressure Method and author of How to Punch Failure in the Face and How to Raise Kids Who Listen, Follow Through, and Take Ownership—Without Yelling or Nagging. Through her transformational talks and programs, Tracy empowers high-achievers to stop surviving and start leading—at home, at work, and within themselves. Ways to connect with Tracy**:** www.linkedin.com/in/ theconfidencecoach https://www.facebook.com/tracy.huff.39 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

This special podcast edition of This Way Out Radio presents the full recording of The Quentin Crisp Memorial program that was excerpted in This Way Out's feature in program #1964. Here, we listen to the full memorial program including eulogies from those who knew him best. This program recorded and produced by Brian DeShazor won a Golden Reel Award for local events coverage at the 2001 National Federation of Community Broadcasters. Quentin Crisp Memorial: Hosted by Phillip Ward, Executor to the Quentin Crisp Estate. March 3, 2000 memorial celebration at Cooper Union in New York City honoring Crisp. Speakers: Elaine Goycoolea, Denise Pratt-Renner, Francis Ramsey, Penny Arcade, Louis Coallaieni, Evan Thompson, Joan Thompson, Stephen Sorrentino, Tim Fountain, Guy Kettlehack, Eric Bentley, Sylvia Miles, Ned Rorem, Richard Connolly, Tom Steele, Larry Ashmead, Chip Snell, and John Hurt. Additional music courtesy of Evan Lurie composed for the film "Homo Heights," co-starring Quentin Crisp. (59 min.)

Send us a text Kevin D. Freeman is founder and CEO of Freeman Global Holdings, a New York Times bestselling author, host of Economic War Room on BlazeTV, and host of Pirate Money Radio on AFR. He is founder and chairman of the NSIC Institute,[1] a Senior Fellow of the Center for Security Policy, a co-founder of the Adam Smith Foundation, and advisor to the National Federation of Republican Assemblies, and a contributing editor to The Counter Terrorist magazine. Freeman is author of Investing in Separate Accounts (2002), Secret Weapon: How Economic Terrorism Brought Down the U.S. Stock Market and Why It can Happen Again (2012), Game Plan: How to Protect Yourself from the Coming Cyber-Economic Attack (2014), and Pirate Money: Discovering the Founders’ Hidden Plan for Economic Justice and Defeating the Great Reset (2023). Click HERE for your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists Click HERE for the best cigars 1689 Cigars has to offer! Click HERE for your complete seating and furnishing needs from K&K Furnishing Covenant Real Estate: "Confidence from Contract to Close" Facebook: Dead Men Walking PodcastYoutube: Dead Men Walking PodcastInstagram: @DeadMenWalkingPodcastTwitter X: @RealDMWPodcastExclusive Content: PubTV AppSupport the show Get your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists today! The only distinctly reformed wealth company! CLICK HERE! 1689 Cigars: The absolute best cigars on earth! Check out out the Dead Men Walking snarky merch HERE! Build something for God's glory through Covenant Real Estate! Greg Moore Jr. can help you buy, sell, and invest! Call him at (734) 731-GREG or visit www.covenant.realestate

Send us a textKevin D. Freeman is founder and CEO of Freeman Global Holdings, a New York Times bestselling author, host of Economic War Room on BlazeTV, and host of Pirate Money Radio on AFR. He is founder and chairman of the NSIC Institute,[1] a Senior Fellow of the Center for Security Policy, a co-founder of the Adam Smith Foundation, and advisor to the National Federation of Republican Assemblies, and a contributing editor to The Counter Terrorist magazine. Freeman is author of Investing in Separate Accounts (2002), Secret Weapon: How Economic Terrorism Brought Down the U.S. Stock Market and Why It can Happen Again (2012), Game Plan: How to Protect Yourself from the Coming Cyber-Economic Attack (2014), and Pirate Money: Discovering the Founders' Hidden Plan for Economic Justice and Defeating the Great Reset (2023).Click HERE for your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists Click HERE for the best cigars 1689 Cigars has to offer! Click HERE for your complete seating and furnishing needs from K&K Furnishing Covenant Real Estate: "Confidence from Contract to Close" Facebook: Dead Men Walking PodcastYoutube: Dead Men Walking PodcastInstagram: @DeadMenWalkingPodcastTwitter X: @RealDMWPodcastExclusive Content: PubTV App

As the economic landscape grows more complex, investors and advisors are facing new questions about growth, inflation, and what the U.S. Federal Reserve (Fed) may do next. In this episode, host John P. Bryson is joined by Matt and Emily, who discuss the strength of theongoing market rally, recent volatility in the banking sector, the bond market, and rate-cut expectations. They emphasize thoughtful allocation, diversification, and a focus on quality as advisors position portfolios in a momentum-driven environment.Below are a few highlights from the episode:1 How is U.S. economic data shaping up currently?Emily: Economic data is complicated right now. The latest small business survey by the National Federation of Independent Business showed a deterioration in sentiment. Manufacturing data is split, the Fed showed mixed messages, and job openings are decelerating. It's difficult to get a read right now given the lack of economic data due to the government shutdown. Overall, the U.S. economy is continuing to see a slow deceleration.2 What is the bond market telling us about possible Fed rate cuts?Emily: Credit markets are stable, with high-yield spreads below 3.0%, suggesting no broad stress. The two-year Treasury yield, which has broken below 3.5%, indicates the Fed may need to cut rates more than previously expected. Inflation is also likely to slow more than official data suggests. Labor market softness and real-time housing data showing falling prices are leading us to expect the Fed to cut a bit more, we think potentially four or five cuts into 2026.3 What are your conversations with advisors and investors focused on right now?Matt: While the recent rally has been remarkable, the question is if it's sustainable. Our focus is on how to continue allocating capital for appreciation for clients, but in a thoughtful way, which is why we're discussing diversification. We've talked about alternatives like infrastructure-related equities and multi-alternative strategies, as well as mid-cap equities to reduce concentration risk in large-cap U.S. stocks. On the bond side, you can still get good income for clients where you can liability match and use this income for spending needs over the coming years—so it makes sense to take advantage while it lasts.

Send us a text Kevin D. Freeman is founder and CEO of Freeman Global Holdings, a New York Times bestselling author, host of Economic War Room on BlazeTV, and host of Pirate Money Radio on AFR. He is founder and chairman of the NSIC Institute,[1] a Senior Fellow of the Center for Security Policy, a co-founder of the Adam Smith Foundation, and advisor to the National Federation of Republican Assemblies, and a contributing editor to The Counter Terrorist magazine. Freeman is author of Investing in Separate Accounts (2002), Secret Weapon: How Economic Terrorism Brought Down the U.S. Stock Market and Why It can Happen Again (2012), Game Plan: How to Protect Yourself from the Coming Cyber-Economic Attack (2014), and Pirate Money: Discovering the Founders’ Hidden Plan for Economic Justice and Defeating the Great Reset (2023). Click HERE for your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists Click HERE for the best cigars 1689 Cigars has to offer! Click HERE for your complete seating and furnishing needs from K&K Furnishing Covenant Real Estate: "Confidence from Contract to Close" Facebook: Dead Men Walking PodcastYoutube: Dead Men Walking PodcastInstagram: @DeadMenWalkingPodcastTwitter X: @RealDMWPodcastExclusive Content: PubTV AppSupport the show Get your free consultation with Dominion Wealth Strategists today! The only distinctly reformed wealth company! CLICK HERE! 1689 Cigars: The absolute best cigars on earth! Check out out the Dead Men Walking snarky merch HERE! Build something for God's glory through Covenant Real Estate! Greg Moore Jr. can help you buy, sell, and invest! Call him at (734) 731-GREG or visit www.covenant.realestate

When guests can get a host to say, “So you can stay wet after you sweat!” you know it's worth a listen! Lizzy and Katelyn cohost this episode for a hands-on crash course in improv! Listen, learn, and laugh with us live from convention!Connect with the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division!Website: www.nfb-pad.orgLike us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/PerformingArtsDivisionFollow us on X: @NFB_PAD

Kevin covered the following stories: the National Retail Federation projects Holiday spending; data from GenLogs drive Trucking industry confidence; the National Federation of Independent Business released their October Small Business Optimism Index; KFF, formerly known as The Kaiser Family Foundation, released their Annual Health Benefits Survey; Kevin has the details; sifts through the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and a few opinions along the way.

Kevin covered the following stories: the National Retail Federation projects Holiday spending; data from GenLogs drive Trucking industry confidence; the National Federation of Independent Business released their October Small Business Optimism Index; KFF, formerly known as The Kaiser Family Foundation, released their Annual Health Benefits Survey; Kevin has the details; sifts through the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and a few opinions along the way.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kevin covered the following stories: the National Retail Federation projects Holiday spending; data from GenLogs drive Trucking industry confidence; the National Federation of Independent Business released their October Small Business Optimism Index; KFF, formerly known as The Kaiser Family Foundation, released their Annual Health Benefits Survey; Kevin has the details; sifts through the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and a few opinions along the way.

What if burnout was actually the beginning of something better? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Sir James Gray Robinson, a third-generation trial lawyer who walked away from a successful career to heal himself—and now teaches others how to do the same. Sir James and I talk about what really happens when stress takes over the body, how to shift from warrior mode to guru mode, and simple vagus-nerve resets that can calm the mind and restore focus in minutes. You'll hear why information isn't the same as experience, how neuroplasticity shapes your habits, and how purpose and service can keep you grounded even in high-pressure work. This conversation is packed with science, wisdom, and hope for anyone ready to reclaim their peace and performance. Highlights: 00:51 Learn why information isn't knowledge and how experience locks in learning.03:00 See how becoming a modern knight reshaped values like chivalry and service.04:06 Understand the Royal Order's code, vetting, and service mission.07:53 Hear how a top trial lawyer hit burnout and what actually flipped the switch.11:10 Get the ABA survey wake-up call on lawyer stress and its impact.13:01 Spot the “warrior vs. guru” modes of the autonomic nervous system.16:03 Learn why serotonin, oxytocin, and dopamine thrive in “guru mode.”22:24 Use vagus-nerve activators to shift out of fight-or-flight fast.27:36 Try the smile reset to trigger calming cranial-nerve pathways.29:22 See why singing or chanting reduces stress before work.31:00 Apply cold water and forearm rubs as quick nervous-system reboots.41:38 Plan your day to prevent anxiety loops and channel problem-solving.45:00 Replace adrenaline addiction with team brainstorming and clear tasks.50:43 Drop multitasking for focused sprints to work smarter and earn more.1:00:00 Add purpose and service so high achievement stays healthy and effective. About the Guest: Sir James Gray Robinson, Esq. is an award winning third-generation trial attorney who specialized in family law and civil litigation for 27 years in his native North Carolina. Burned out, Sir James quit in 2004 and has spent the next 20 years doing extensive research and innovative training to help others facing burnout and personal crises to heal. He has taught wellness, transformation, and mindfulness internationally to thousands of private clients, businesses, and associations. As a licensed attorney, he is focused on helping lawyers, professionals, entrepreneurs, employers, and parents facing stress, anxiety, addiction, depression, exhaustion, and burnout. Sir James is a highly respected speaker, writer, TV personality, mentor, consultant, mastermind, and spiritual leader/healer who is committed to healing the planet. He possesses over 30 certifications and degrees in law, healing, and coaching, as well as hundreds of hours of post-certification training in the fields of neuroscience, neurobiology, and neuroplasticity, epigenetics, mind-body-spirit medicine, and brain/heart integration. Having experienced multiple near-death experiences has given him a deeper connection with divinity and spiritual energy. Sir James regularly trains professionals, high-level executives, and businesspeople to hack their brains to turn stress into success. He is regularly invited to speak at ABA and state bar events about mental and emotional health. His work is frequently published in legal and personal growth magazines, including the ABA Journal, Attorneys-at-Work Magazine, and the Family Law Journal. Sir James has authored 13 books on personal growth and healing, including three targeting stressed professionals as well as over 100 articles published in national magazines. He has produced several training videos for attorneys, executives, entrepreneurs and high-level professionals. Sir James has generously endowed numerous projects around the world to help children, indigenous natives, orphans and the sick, including clean water projects in the Manu Rain Forest, Orphanages, Schools and Medical Clinics/Ambulances in India, Buddhist monks in Nepal, and schools in Kenya, Ecuador, and Puerto Rico. In addition to his extensive contributions, Sir James produced and starred in three documentaries that will be released in 2024, focusing on healing, mental and emotional health. The first, "Beyond Physical Matter," is available on several streaming platforms, including Amazon Prime. The trailer can be found at www.BeyondPhysicalMatter.com. The second, “Beyond the Mastermind Secret”, is scheduled for release in the fall of 2024. The trailer can be found at https://BeyondMastermindSecrets.com/. The third, “Beyond Physical Life” is scheduled for release at the end of 2024. The trailer can be found at https://beyondphysicallife.com/. He has formed an entertainment media production company known as Beyond Entertainment Global, LLC, and is currently producing feature length films and other media. In recognition of his outstanding work and philanthropy, Sir James was recently knighted by the Royal Order of Constantine the Great and Saint Helen. In addition, Sir James won the prestigious International Impact Book Award for his new book “Thriving in the Legal Arena: The Ultimate Lawyer's Guide for Transforming Stress into Success”. Several of his other books have won international book awards as well. Sir James was recently awarded the President's Lifetime Achievement Award by President Joe Biden for his outstanding service to his community, country and the world. He will be awarded the prestigious International Humanitarian Award known as Men with Hearts, in London, England in the fall of 2024, as well as Man of the Year and Couple of the year with his wife, Linda Giangreco. Sir James has a wide variety of work/life experiences, including restauranteur, cattle rancher, horse trainer, substance abuse counselor, treatment center director, energy healer, bodyguard, legal counselor for several international spiritual organizations, golfer and marathon runner. He graduated from R.J. Reynolds High School in 1971, Davidson College in 1975 and Wake Forest University School of Law in 1978. Ways to connect with Sir James Gray Robinson**:** FB - https://www.facebook.com/sirjamesgrayrobinson  IG - https://www.instagram.com/sirjamesgrayrobinson/  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@sirjamesgrayrobinson?_t=8hOuSCTDAw4&_r=1 Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@JamesGrayRobinson LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gray-robinson-/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

In this impactful and inspiring episode of Unstoppable Mindset, host Michael Hingson sits down with Ronald Cocking—performer, educator, and co-founder of the Looking Glass Studio of Performing Arts—to reflect on a remarkable life shaped by rhythm, resilience, and love. Ron's journey into the performing arts began at just five years old, when his passion for tap dance ignited a lifelong commitment to dance and musical theater. From his first professional role at age 15 in My Fair Lady to founding one of Southern California's most impactful arts schools, Ron's story is one of dedication, creativity, and community.   But perhaps the most moving part of Ron's story is his 49-year partnership—both personal and professional—with the late Gloria McMillan, best known as Harriet Conklin from Our Miss Brooks. Together, they created a legacy of mentorship through the Looking Glass Studio, where they taught thousands of students across generations—not just how to act, sing, or dance, but how to live with confidence and integrity.   Ron also reflects on the legacy Gloria left behind, his continued involvement in the arts, and the words of wisdom that guide his life:   “Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” “To find happiness, take the gifts God has given you and give them away.”   This is more than a story of a career in the arts—it's a touching tribute to passion, partnership, and purpose that will leave you inspired.   Highlights:   00:48 – Hear how early radio at home shaped a lifetime love for performance. 03:00 – Discover why drumming and tap both trained his ear for rhythm. 06:12 – Learn how a tough studio change led to ballet, jazz, and tumbling basics. 08:21 – See the “sing with your feet” method that makes tap click for students. 10:44 – Find out how a teen chorus role in My Fair Lady opened pro doors. 13:19 – Explore the drum-and-tap crossover he performed with Leslie Uggams. 15:39 – Learn how meeting Gloria led to a studio launched for $800. 18:58 – Get the long view on running a school for 44 years with family involved. 23:46 – Understand how Our Miss Brooks moved from radio to TV with its cast intact. 32:36 – See how 42nd Street proves the chorus can be the star. 41:51 – Hear why impact matters more than fame when students build careers. 43:16 – Learn what it takes to blend art and business without losing heart. 45:47 – Compare notes on marriage, teamwork, and communication that lasts. 48:20 – Enjoy a rare soft-shoe moment Ron and Gloria performed together. 56:38 – Take away the “teach to fish” approach that builds lifelong confidence.   About the Guest:   My father was a trumpet player, thus I heard music at home often in the early 50's and was always impressed and entertained by the rhythms and beats of Big Band music… especially the drummers.  Each time I would see Tap dancers on TV, I was glued to the screen.  It fascinated me the way Tap dancers could create such music with their feet!   In 1954, at age 5, after begging my Mom and Dad to enroll me in a Tap class, my Dad walked in from work and said “Well, you're all signed up, and your first Tap class is next Tuesday.  I was thrilled and continued studying tap and many other dance forms and performing and teaching dance for all of my life.     In my mid teens, I became serious about dancing as a possible career.  After seeing my first musical, “The Pajama Game” starring Ruth Lee, I new I wanted to do musical theatre.  I got my first professional opportunity at age 15 in “My Fair Lady” for the San Bernardino Civic Light Opera Association and loved every minute of it… and would continue performing for this organization well into my 30's   I met Gloria McMillan in the late 60's while choreographing a summer musical for children.  Gloria's daughter was doing the role of Dorothy in “The Wizard of Oz”.  Then, about 3 or 4 years later I would meet Gloria again and the sparks flew.  And, yes, she was Gloria McMillan of “Our Miss Brooks” fame on both radio and television.  Wow, was I blessed to have crossed paths with her.  We shared our lives together for 49 years.   On November 4, 1974, Gloria and I opened a performing arts school together named “The Looking Glass Studio of Performing Arts”.  We would teach and manage the school together for 44 years until we retired on June 30, 2018.  We moved to Huntington Beach, California and spent 3 beautiful years together until she left to meet our Lord in heaven on January 19, 2022.   Ways to connect with Ron:   Lgsparon@aol.com     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi there, wherever you are and wherever you happen to be today. Welcome to unstoppable mindset. I'm your host, Mike hingson, and today we get to chat with Ron Cocking, who is Ron. Well, we're going to find out over the next hour. And Ron was married for many years to another person who is very famous, and we'll get to that, probably not as well known to what I would probably describe as the younger generation, but you're going to get to learn a lot about Ron and his late wife before we're done, and I am sure we're going to have a lot of fun doing it. So let's get to it. Ron, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Ron Cocking ** 01:59 Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. Michael, this. I've been looking forward to this.   Michael Hingson ** 02:04 I have been as well, and we're going to have a lot of fun doing it.   Ron Cocking ** 02:08 Do you one note on that last name? It is cocking. Cocking, he comes right? Comes from a little townlet in the coal mining country of England called Cockington.   Michael Hingson ** 02:20 I don't know why I keep saying that, but yeah, cocky, no   02:23 problem.   Michael Hingson ** 02:24 Well, do you go up to the reps recreations at all?   Ron Cocking ** 02:28 Oh my gosh, Gloria. And I know you and Gloria, did do you still do it? I've it's on my schedule for September.   Michael Hingson ** 02:35 I'm gonna miss it this year. I've got a speech to give. So I was going to be playing Richard diamond at recreation. Well, I'll have to be Dick Powell another time, but I thought that you you were still doing   02:50 it. I'm planning on it cool.   Michael Hingson ** 02:53 Well, tell us about the early Ron cocking and kind of growing up in some of that stuff. Let's start with that.   Ron Cocking ** 02:59 Well, the early part of my story was when I was born just a little before television came in, before everyone had a TV in their home. How old are you now? If I maybe, you know, I am now 76   Michael Hingson ** 03:12 Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah, you're one year ahead of me. I'm 75   Ron Cocking ** 03:16 I was born in 49 and so my earliest remembrances my mom and dad and my brother and I lived with our grandfather, and we had no television, but we had this big it must have been about three to four foot tall, this big box on the floor in a very prominent spot in the living room. And that was the Sunday afternoon entertainment. I remember my family sitting around, and I listened and I laughed when they did, but I had no idea what was going on, but that was the family gathering. And just, I know we'll talk about it later, but I I just have this notion that at that time I was laughing, not knowing what I was laughing at, but I bet I was laughing at my future   Michael Hingson ** 04:02 wife, yes, yes, but other things as well. I mean, you probably laughed at Jack Benny and Amos and Andy and   Ron Cocking ** 04:09 yeah, I remember listening to all those folks, and it was just amazing. Then when television came about and my father was a trumpet player, and I loved his trumpet playing, and he practiced often at home. He would sit in his easy chair and play some tunes and scales and that sort of thing. But what captured my ear and my eyes when I went to on rare occasions when I could go to his engagements, it was always the drummer that just stuck out to me. I was mesmerized by the rhythms that they could produce. And when TV came about, I remember the old variety shows, and they often would have tap dancers like. Had a stair gene, Kelly, Peg Leg Bates and the Nicholas brothers, and I just, I was just taken back by the rhythms. It sounded like music to me. The rhythms just made me want to do it. And so I started putting that bug in my parents ears. And I waited and waited. I wanted to take tap dance lessons. And one day, my dad walks in the back door, and I said, Dad, have you signed me up yet? And he said, Yep, you start next Tuesday at 330 in the afternoon. So I was overjoyed, and I went in for my first lesson. And mind you, this was a private tap class. Total Cost of $1.25 and we had a pianist for music, no record player, live piano, wow. And so I, I rapidly fell in love with tap dance.   Michael Hingson ** 05:56 And so you did that when you weren't in school. Presumably, you did go to school.   Ron Cocking ** 06:00 Oh, yeah, I did go to school. Yeah, I did well in school, and I enjoyed school. I did all the athletics. I played little league, and eventually would be a tennis player and water polo and all that stuff. But all through the years, after school was on the way to the dance classes.   Michael Hingson ** 06:16 So you graduated, or I suppose I don't want to insult drumming, but you graduated from drumming to tap dancing, huh?   Ron Cocking ** 06:24 Well, I kept doing them both together. I would dance, and then when my dad would practice, I would beg him to just play a tune like the St Louis Blues, yeah, and so that I could keep time, so I pulled a little stool up in front of an easy chair, and one of the arms of the chair was the ride cymbal, and the other one was the crash cymbal, and the seat of the chair was my snare drum. I would play along with him. And eventually he got tired of that and bought a Hi Fi for my brother and I, and in the bedroom I had a Hi Fi, and I started to put together a set of drums, and I spent hours next to that, Hi Fi, banging on the drums, and I remember it made me feel good. One day, my mom finally said to me, you know, you're starting to sound pretty good, and that that was a landmark for me. I thought, wow, somebody is enjoying my drumming,   Michael Hingson ** 07:18 but you couldn't do drumming and tap dancing at the same time. That would have been a little bit of a challenge. A challenge.   Ron Cocking ** 07:23 No, I would practice that the drums in the afternoon and then head for the dance studio later. And in this case, I was a local boy. I grew up in Riverside California, and my first tap teacher was literally maybe two miles from our house. But that didn't last long. She got married and became pregnant and closed her studio, and then I she recommended that I go see this teacher in San Bernardino by the name of Vera Lynn. And which I did, I remember walking into this gigantic classroom with a bunch of really tall kids, and I was maybe seven or eight years old, and I guess it was kind of an audition class, but after that evening, I she put me in the most appropriate classes, one of which was ballet, which I wasn't too excited about, but they all told me, If you're going to be a serious dancer, even a tap dancer, you need to get the basic body placement from ballet classes. And I said, Well, I am not going to put any tights and a T shirt on. But they finally got me to do that because they told me that the Rams football team took ballet class twice a week at that time. Ah. Said, no kidding. So they got me, they they got you. They got me into ballet class, and then it was jazz, and then it was tumbling, and so I did it all.   Michael Hingson ** 08:43 I remember when we moved to California when I was five, and probably when I was about eight or nine, my brother and I were enrolled by my mother. I guess my parents enrolled us in a dance class. So I took dance class for a few years. I learned something about dancing. I did have a pair of tap shoes, although I didn't do a lot of it, but I, but I did dance and never, never really pursued it enough to become a Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire. Well, few of us do. I didn't dislike it. It just didn't happen. But that was okay, but it was fun to, you know, to do it and to learn something about that. And so I even today, I I remember it, and I appreciate it. So that's pretty cool.   Ron Cocking ** 09:32 Well, you would understand what I always told my students, that tap dancing is like singing a song with your feet. Yeah. And I would sing, I would say, you all know, happy birthday, right? So I would sing it, and they would sing it along, and then I'd said, then I would sing it again, and I would sing it totally out of rhythm. And they would wrinkle their nose and look at me and say, okay, so what are you doing? And I'd say, Well, you don't recognize it because the rhythm is not correct. So then I would. Would tap dance Happy birthday, and I'd say, you sing along in your mind and I'm going to tap dance it. And that would always ring a bell in their mind, like, Oh, I get it. The rhythm has to be right on the button, or the people aren't going to recognize   Michael Hingson ** 10:16 that was very clever to do.   Ron Cocking ** 10:18 Yeah, thank you. And they got it, yeah, they got it, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 10:22 which is even, even more important. That's pretty clever. Well, so you did that, and did you do it all the way through high school,   Ron Cocking ** 10:30 all the way through high school? And I think when I was 15, I was, I think I was in the eighth grade, maybe ninth, but I was 15 and got my first chance to I was cast in a professional show for San Bernardino civic light opera Association. And the show was My Fair Lady, and it was my English and journalism teacher at the junior high who had been cast. He was a performer also, but something came up and he couldn't follow through, so he had given the association my name, and I was out in the backyard. My mom came out. Said, Hey, San Bernardino clo just called and they want, they want to see it tonight at seven o'clock. So I put on my dance clothes and went over, and the director, by the name of Gosh, Gene Bayless, came out, and he showed me a couple of steps. And he said, Yeah, let's do it together. And he said, Boy, you unscramble your feet pretty well there kid. And he he looked over into the costumers and said, measure this guy. Let's put him in the show. So I was beside myself. And long story short, I Gosh, I'm over the over the years, I my first show was at age 15 with them, and I participated, did shows with them, until I think my last show, I was about 38 years old, and that last show was anything goes with Leslie uggums, wow.   Michael Hingson ** 11:52 So what part did you play on my fair lady?   Ron Cocking ** 11:55 I was just a chorus kid. I remember in the opening when Eliza sings, that wouldn't it be lovely? Wouldn't it be lovely? I was a street sweeper. I remember I had a broom, and there were three of us, and we were sweeping up that street and working in and around. Eliza Doolittle, of   Michael Hingson ** 12:11 course, being really spiteful. You just said a little while ago, you were beside yourself. And the thing that I got to say to that, quoting the Muppets, is, how do the two of you stand each other? But anyway, that's okay, good in the original Muppet Movie, that line is in there. And I it just came out so fast, but I heard it. I was going, Oh my gosh. I couldn't believe they did that. But anyway, it was so cute, very funny. That's great. So and then you were, you eventually were opposite Leslie UB,   Ron Cocking ** 12:39 yes, that was one of the high points talking about dancing and drumming at the same time. In fact, I used to give a drum a basic drum summer camp where I would teach tappers the basics of music notation, quarter notes, eighth notes, 16th notes. And then we would put a tap orchestra together. Everybody had their own music stand and their own drum pad. I would conduct, and we would play little pieces, and they would they would drum a rhythm, tap, a rhythm, drum, a rhythm, tap, a rhythm. And so anyway, it came full circle. One of the highlights of my dance slash drumming career was this show I did with Leslie uggums, the director had done this prior, and he knew it would work, and so so did the conductor in the entre Act. The top of the second act, the pit orchestra starts and plays like eight measures. And then there were six of us on stage, behind the main curtain, and we would play the next 16 bars, and then we would toss it back to the pit, and then toss it back to us, and the curtain would begin to rise, and we were right into the first song that Leslie uggums sang to get into the second act. Then she wanted to add a couple of songs that she liked, and she was very popular in with the audiences in San Bernardino, so she added a couple of songs, and I got to play those songs with her and and that was just so thrilling. And I with the scene finished, I had to have my tap shoes on, on the drum set. I had to hop down from the riser, and came out, brought one of my Toms with me, and played along with another featured tap dancer that kind of took over the scene at that point. So it was, it was really cool.   Michael Hingson ** 14:31 So with all this drumming, did you ever meet anyone like buddy rip?   Ron Cocking ** 14:35 No, I never met any famous drummers except a man by the name of Jack Sperling, which was one of my drumming idols,   Michael Hingson ** 14:44 Donnie Carson was quite the drummer, as I recall,   Ron Cocking ** 14:48 yeah, he did play yeah and boy, his his drummer, Ed Shaughnessy on his on The Tonight Show was phenomenal. Yeah, he's another of my favorites, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 14:57 well, and I remember. I guess Johnny Carson and Buddy Rich played together, which was kind of fun. They   Ron Cocking ** 15:07 played together, and so did Ed Shaughnessy and Buddy Rich did a little competition on the show one time I realized, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 15:15 right, yeah. Well, and it's interesting to see some of the performers do that. I remember once trying to remember whether what show it was on, maybe it was also a Tonight Show where Steve Martin substituted for Johnny, but he and the steel Canyon, the Steve Canyon band, came out. Of course, he was great on the band, and then flat and Scruggs or flat came out. Or which one? Yeah, which one did the banjo flat, I think, but they, but they banjo together, which was fun?   Ron Cocking ** 15:51 Oh, wow, yeah, yeah. Steve Martin is a tremendous band. He is, Whoa, yeah. I,   Michael Hingson ** 15:56 I have a hard time imagining fingers moving that fast, but that's okay, me too. I saved my fingers for Braille, so it's okay. So where did you go to college?   Ron Cocking ** 16:07 I went to for two years to Riverside City College, Riverside Community College, and then I went for two years to San Bernardino Cal State, San Bernardino, and I was majoring in English because I thought I may want to do some writing. But in the meantime, I became married, I became a father, and so I was trying to work and study and maintain a family life, and I just couldn't do it all. So I didn't quite finish a major at Cal State San Bernardino. I continued actually a nightclub drumming career. And now, now we're getting up to where this our performing arts studio began between Gloria and I.   Michael Hingson ** 16:50 So was it? GLORIA? You married first?   Ron Cocking ** 16:53 No, okay, no, Gloria was married. Gloria was a prior, prior marriage for 20 some years, or 20 years, I guess. And I had been married only two years, I think. And when we first, well, we actually met while we were both. I'll tell you the story in a minute, if you want to hear it. Sure, the first time I ever met Gloria Macmillan, I had no idea who she was, because she her name was Gloria Allen at the time that was, that was her married name that she took after the arm is Brooks TV show. Well, she took that the new name before the TV show even ended. But I was choreographing a children's summer musical, and the director came up said, hey, I want you to meet this young lady's mom. So the young lady was Gloria's daughter, her oldest daughter, Janet. And I said, Sure. So he said, This is Gloria. Allen, Gloria, this is Ron. And we shook hands, and I said, Nice to meet you. And that was it. And so the show happened. It ran for a couple of weeks, and Gloria was a wonderful stage mom. She she never bothered anyone. She watched the show. She was very supportive of her daughter. Didn't, didn't stage manage   Michael Hingson ** 18:09 whatsoever, which wasn't a helicopter mom, which is good,   Ron Cocking ** 18:12 definitely that, which was just really cool. So and so I was maybe three, four years later, so Gloria obviously knew that I could dance, because she had seen me choreographed. So I got a phone call from Gloria Allen, and I said, Okay, I remember her. She wanted to meet because she was thinking about starting an acting school and wanted someone to teach actors some dance movement. So I went over for a interview and took my little at that time, about two and a half year old, daughter, three year old, and we chatted, and oh my gosh, I just this, this beautiful woman swept me off my feet. And of course, I by the end of the conversation, I said, Gosh, you know, we talked about how we would integrate the acting and the dance, and I said, Can I have your phone number? Nope, I got the old well, we'll call you. Don't call us. And so I had to wait for a few days before I got a call back, but I got a call back, and I don't remember a lot of details, but the sparks flew really, really quickly, and we started planning our school. And if you can believe that this was 1973 when we started planning, maybe it was early 74 and we invested a whole total of $800 to get ourselves into business. We bought a record player, some mirrors, some paint, and a business license and a little shingle to hang out front. We had a little one room studio, and we. Opened on November 4, 1974 and we would close the studio on June 30, 2018 Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 20:08 Yeah. So you, you had it going for quite a while, almost, well, actually, more than 40 years. 44 years. 44 years, yes. And you got married along the way.   Ron Cocking ** 20:20 Well along the way, my my wife always said she fell in love with my daughter, and then she had to take me along with her. Yeah. Well, there you go. So we were together constantly, just running the school together. And then eventually I moved over to San Bernardino, and it was, gosh, some 1213, years later, we got married in on June 28 1987 and but nothing really changed, because we had already been living together and raising five children. GLORIA had four from a private prior marriage, and I had my little girl. So we we got all these five kids through elementary and junior high in high school, and they all went to college. And they're all beautiful kids and productive citizens, two of them still in show biz. Her son, my stepson, Christopher Allen, is a successful producer now and of Broadway shows. And our daughter, Barbara Bermudez, the baby that Gloria fell in love with. She's now a producer slash stage manager director. She does really well at big events with keynote speakers. And she'll, if they want her to, she will hire in everything from lighting and sound to extra performers and that sort of thing. And she's, she's just busy constantly all over the world, wow.   Michael Hingson ** 21:43 Well, that's pretty cool. And what are the other three doing?   Ron Cocking ** 21:47 One is a VP of Sales for it's a tub and shower company, jacuzzi, and the other one is a married housewife, but now she is a grandmother and has two little grandkids, and they that's Janet, the one that I originally had worked with in that children's show. And she and her husband live in Chino Hills, California, which is about 40 minutes from here. I live in Huntington Beach, California now,   Michael Hingson ** 22:14 well, and I'm not all that far away from you. We're in Victorville. Oh, Victorville, okay, yeah, the high desert. So the next time you go to Vegas, stop by on your way, I'll do that, since that's mainly what Victorville is probably most known for. I remember when I was growing I grew up in Palmdale, and Palmdale wasn't very large. It only had like about 20 703,000 people. But as I described it to people, Victorville wasn't even a speck on a radar scope compared to Palmdale at that time. Yeah, my gosh, are over 120,000 people in this town?   Ron Cocking ** 22:51 Oh, I remember the drive in the early days from here to Vegas in that you really felt like you could get out on the road all alone and relax and take it all in, and now it can be trafficking all all the   Speaker 1 ** 23:04 way. Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know. I still think they need to do something to put some sort of additional infrastructure, and there's got to be another way to get people to Vegas and back without going on i 15, because it is so crowded, especially around holidays, that one of these days, somebody will get creative. Maybe they'll get one of Tesla's tunnel boring tools, and they'll make a tunnel, and you can go underground the whole way, I don't know,   Ron Cocking ** 23:32 but that would be, that would be great. Something like that would happen.   Michael Hingson ** 23:38 Well, so you you started the school and and that did, pretty cool. Did, did Gloria do any more acting after our Miss Brooks? And then we should explain our Miss Brooks is a show that started on radio. Yes, it went on to television, and it was an arm is Brooks. Miss Brooks played by e vardin. Was a teacher at Madison High, and the principal was Osgood Conklin, played by Gail Gordon, who was absolutely perfect for the part. He was a crotchety old curmudgeon by any standards. And Gloria played his daughter, Harriet correct. And so when it went from radio to television, one of the things that strikes me about armas Brooks and a couple of those shows, burns and Allen, I think, is sort of the same. Jack Benny was a little different. But especially armas Brooks, it just seems to me like they they took the radio shows and all they did was, did the same shows. They weren't always the same plots, but it was, it was radio on television. So you, you had the same dialog. It was really easy for me to follow, and it was, was fascinating, because it was just like the radio shows, except they were on television.   Ron Cocking ** 24:56 Yeah, pretty much. In fact, there were a lot, there's lots of episodes. Episodes that are even named the same name as they had on the radio, and they're just have to be reworked for for the television screen,   Michael Hingson ** 25:08 yeah, but the the dialog was the same, which was so great,   Ron Cocking ** 25:13 yeah, yeah. And to see what was I going to add, it was our Miss Brooks was one of the very few radio shows that made the transition to television with the cast with the same intact. Yeah, everybody looked like they sounded. So it worked when they were in front of the camera. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 25:33 it sort of worked with Jack Benny, because most of the well, all the characters were in it, Don Wilson, Mary, Livingston, Dennis day, Rochester, world, yeah. And of course, Mel Blanc, yeah, oh.   Ron Cocking ** 25:49 GLORIA tells a story. She she and her mom, Hazel, were walking down the street on the way to do a radio show in the old days in Hollywood, and here comes Mel blank, he says, he pulls over. Says, Hey, where are you girls headed because I know that he probably recognized them from being at at CBS all the time, and they said, We're headed to CBS. He said, hop in. Oh, that's where I'm going. So Mel Brooks gave her a ride to the Mel Blanc, yeah, would have been   Michael Hingson ** 26:15 fun if Mel Brooks had but that's okay, Young Frankenstein, but that's another story. It is. But that's that's cool. So did they ever? Did she ever see him any other times? Or was that it?   Ron Cocking ** 26:30 No, I think that was it. That's the one story that she has where Mel Blanc is involved.   Michael Hingson ** 26:36 What a character, though. And of course, he was the man of a million voices, and it was just incredible doing I actually saw a couple Jack Benny shows this morning and yesterday. One yesterday, he was Professor LeBlanc teaching Jack Benny how to play the violin, which was a lost cause.   Ron Cocking ** 26:59 Actually, Jack Benny was not a bad view. No,   Michael Hingson ** 27:01 he wasn't violent. No, he wasn't. He had a lot of fun with it, and that stick went straight in from radio to television, and worked really well, and people loved it, and you knew what was going to happen, but it didn't matter. But it was still   Ron Cocking ** 27:16 funny, and I'm sure during the transition they there was a little bit of panic in the writers department, like, okay, what are we going to do? We got to come up with a few shows. We got to get ahead a little bit. So the writing being just a little different, I'm sure that's part of the reason why they went back and kind of leaned on the old, old script somewhat, until they kind of cut their teeth on the new this new thing called television   Michael Hingson ** 27:39 well, but they still kept a lot of the same routines in one way or another.   Ron Cocking ** 27:45 Yeah, when they work, they work, whether you're just listening or whether you're watching,   Michael Hingson ** 27:48 right, exactly what other shows made it from radio to television with the cast   Ron Cocking ** 27:53 intact? You know, I am not up on that number. I   Michael Hingson ** 27:57 know there were a couple that did. RMS, Brooks was, well, oh no, I was gonna say Abbott and Costello, but that was different, but our Miss Brooks certainly did. If   Ron Cocking ** 28:09 the Bickersons did, I forget the two actors that did that show, but that was a really, Francis   Michael Hingson ** 28:13 Langford and Donna Michi could be, but I think burns and Allen, I think, kept the same people as much as there were. Harry bonzell was still with them, and so on. But it was interesting to see those. And I'm awake early enough in the morning, just because it's a good time to get up, and I get and be real lazy and go slowly to breakfast and all that. But I watched the Benny show, and occasionally before it, I'll watch the burns and Allen show. And I think that the plots weren't as similar from radio to television on the burns and Allen show as they weren't necessarily in the Benny show, but, but it all worked.   Ron Cocking ** 28:58 Yeah, yeah. That's why they were on the air for so long?   Michael Hingson ** 29:02 Yeah, so what other kind of acting did Gloria do once? So you guys started the school   Ron Cocking ** 29:10 well after she well, when we started the school, we found ourselves, you know, raising five children. And so I continued playing nightclub gigs. I had one, one nightclub job for like, five years in a row with two wonderful, wonderful musicians that were like fathers to me. And Gloria actually went to work for her brother in law, and she became a salesperson, and eventually the VP of Sales for a fiberglass tub and shower business down here in Santa Ana. So she drove that 91 freeway from San Bernardino, Santa Ana, all the time. But in,   Michael Hingson ** 29:47 yeah, you could do it back then, much more than now. It was a little better   Ron Cocking ** 29:51 and but in, but twist in between, she managed. Her mom still did a little bit of agency. And she would call Gloria and say. Want you to go see so and so. She did an episode of perfect strangers. She did an episode with Elliot of the guy that played Elliot Ness, stack the show Robert Stack the show was called Help Wanted no see. I guess that was an in but wanted, anyway, she did that. She did a movie with Bruce Dern and Melanie Griffith called Smile. And so she kept, she kept her foot in the door, but, but not, not all that much she she really enjoyed when John Wilder, one of her childhood acting buddies, who she called her brother, and he still calls her sis, or he would call her sis, still. His name was Johnny McGovern when he was a child actor, and when he decided to try some movie work, he there was another Johnny McGovern in Screen Actors Guild, so he had to change his name to John Wyler, but he did that mini series called centennial, and he wanted Gloria for a specific role, to play a German lady opposite the football player Alex Karras. And they had a couple of really nice scenes together. I think she was in three, maybe four of the segments. And there were many segments, it was like a who's who in Hollywood, the cast of that show   Michael Hingson ** 31:28 does that was pretty cool.   Ron Cocking ** 31:32 But anyway, yeah, after Gloria finished armas Brooks, she became married to Gilbert Allen, who, who then became a Presbyterian minister. So Gloria, when you said, Did she continue acting? There's a lot of acting that goes on being a minister and being a minister's wife, and she would put together weddings for people, and that sort of thing. And she did that for 20 years. Wow. So she Gloria was a phenomenon. She did so many things. And she did them all so very well, in my   Speaker 1 ** 32:04 opinion. And so did you? Yeah, which is, which is really cool. So you, but you, you both started the school, and that really became your life's passion for 44 years. Yes,   Ron Cocking ** 32:16 we would get up in the mornings, go do a little business, come home, have a little lunch, go back about 132 o'clock, and we would normally crank up about four after the kids get out of school, and we would teach from four to nine, sometimes to 10. Go out, have some dinner. So yeah, we pretty much 24/7 and we had had such similar backgrounds. Hers on a national radio and television scale, and mine on a much more local, civic light opera scale. But we both had similar relations with our our moms after after the radio tapings and the TV things. GLORIA And her mom. They lived in Beverly Hills, right at Wilshire and Doheny, and they had their favorite chocolate and ice cream stops. And same thing for me, my mom would take me there, two doors down from the little studio where I was taking my tap classes. There was an ice cream parlor, haywoods ice cream. And that was, that was the the lure, if you go in and if you do your practicing, Ronnie, you can, I'll take it for an ice cream so that I did my practicing, had plenty of little treats on the way, so we had that in common, and we both just had very supportive moms that stayed out of the way, not, not what I would call a pushy parent, or, I think you mentioned the helicopter, helicopter, but it   Michael Hingson ** 33:37 but it sounds like you didn't necessarily need the bribes to convince you to tap dance, as you know, anyway, but they didn't hurt.   Ron Cocking ** 33:46 No, it didn't hurt at all, and it was something to look forward to, but I I just enjoyed it all along. Anyway, I finally got to to really showcase what I could do when I was cast as the dance director in the show 42nd street. Oh, wow. And I was lucky. We were lucky. San Bernardino clo was able to hire John Engstrom, who had done the show on Broadway. The earlier version that came, I think it was on Broadway in the mid or to late 70s. He had worked side by side with Gower Champion putting the show together. He told us all sorts of stories about how long it took Gower to put together that opening dance. Because everything in the opening number you you see those steps later in the show done by the chorus, because the opening number is an audition for dancers who want to be in this new Julian Marsh show. So the music starts, the audience hears, I know there must have been 20 of us tapping our feet off. And then a few seconds later, the curtain rises about two and a half feet. And then they see all these tapping feet. And then the main curtain goes out, and there we all are. And. I my part. I was facing upstage with my back to the audience, and then at some point, turned around and we did it was the most athletic, difficult, two and a half minute tap number I had ever done, I'll bet. But it was cool. There were five or six kids that had done it on Broadway and the national tour. And then during that audition, one more high point, if we have the time, we I was auditioning just like everybody else. The director had called and asked if I would audition, but he wasn't going to be choreographing. John Engstrom was so with there was probably 50 or 60 kids of all ages, some adults auditioning, and at one point, John pulled out one of the auditioners, and he happened to be one of my male tap dance students. And he said, Now I want everybody to watch Paul do this step. Paul did the step. He said, Now he said, Paul, someone is really teaching you well. He said, everybody that's the way to do a traveling timestamp so and that, you know, I'll remember that forever. And it ended up he hired. There were seven myself and seven other of my students were cast in that show. And some of them, some of them later, did the show in Las Vegas, different directors. But yeah, that, that was a high point for me.   Speaker 1 ** 36:19 I'm trying to remember the first time I saw 42nd street. I think I've seen it twice on Broadway. I know once, but we also saw it once at the Lawrence Welk Resorts condo there, and they did 42nd street. And that was a lot of that show was just a lot of fun. Anyway,   Ron Cocking ** 36:39 it's a fun show. And as John said in that show, The chorus is the star of the show.   Speaker 1 ** 36:45 Yeah, it's all about dancing by any by any definition, any standard. It's a wonderful show. And anybody who is listening or watching, if you ever get a chance to go see 42nd street do it, it is, it is. Well, absolutely, well worth it.   Ron Cocking ** 37:00 Yeah, good. Good show. Fantastic music, too. Well.   Michael Hingson ** 37:03 How did you and Gloria get along so well for so long, basically, 24 hours a day, doing everything together that that I would think you would even be a little bit amazed, not that you guys couldn't do it, but that you did it so well, and so many people don't do it well,   Ron Cocking ** 37:21 yeah, I don't know I from, from the the first time we met, we just seemed to be on the same wavelength. And by the way, I found out as time went by, Gloria was like Mrs. Humble. She wasn't a bragger, very humble. And it took me a while to find out what an excellent tap dancer she was. But when we went to the studio in the early days, we had, we just had one room. So she would teach actors for an hour, take a break. I would go in teach a tap class or a movement class or a ballet class. I in the early days, I taught, I taught it all. I taught ballet and jazz and and and and   Michael Hingson ** 38:01 tap. Well, let's let's be honest, she had to be able to tap dance around to keep ahead of Osgoode Conklin, but that's another story.   Ron Cocking ** 38:09 Yeah. So yeah, that. And as our studio grew, we would walk every day from our first studio down to the corner to a little wind chills donut shop wind chills donuts to get some coffee and come back. And about a year and a half later, after walking by this, this retail vacant spot that was two doors from our studio, we said, I wonder if that might be, you know, something for us, it had a four lease sign. So, long story short, we released it. The owner of the property loved knowing that Gloria Macmillan was that space. And so luckily, you know when things are supposed to happen. They happen as people would move out next to us, we would move in. So we ended up at that particular studio with five different studio rooms. Wow. And so then we can accommodate all of the above, acting, singing classes, all the dance disciplines, all at the same time, and we can, like, quadruple our student body. So then we made another move, because the neighborhood was kind of collapsing around us, we made another room and purchased a building that had been built as a racquetball club. It had six racquetball courts, all 20 by 40, beautiful hardwood. We made four of them, five of them into studios, and then there was a double racquetball racquetball court in the front of the building which they had tournaments in it was 40 by 40 we moved. We made that into a black box theater for Gloria. And the back wall of the theater was one inch glass outside of which the audiences for the racquetball tournaments used to sit. But outside the glass for us, we had to put curtains there, and out front for us was our. Gigantic lobby. The building was 32,000 square feet. Wow, we could it just made our heart, hearts sing when we could walk down that hallway and see a ballet class over here, a tap class over there, singers, singing actors in the acting room. It was beautiful. And again, it was just meant for us because it was our beautiful daughter, Kelly, who passed away just nine months after Gloria did. She's the one that said, you guys ought to look into that. And I said, Well, it's a racquetball court. But again, the first moment we walked in the front door, you start. We started thinking like, whoa. I think we could make this work. And it worked for another 20 years for us and broke our hearts to basically rip it apart, tear the theater down, and everything when we were moving out, because we we couldn't find another studio that was interested in in coming in, because they would have had to purchase the building. We wanted to sell the building. Yeah. So anyway, of all things, they now sell car mufflers out of there.   Michael Hingson ** 41:02 That's a little different way, way. Yeah, social shock, did any of your students become pretty well known in the in the entertainment world?   Ron Cocking ** 41:11 I wouldn't say well known, but a lot of them have worked a lot and made careers. Some of our former students are now in their 50s, middle 50s, pushing 60, and have done everything from cruise ship to Las Vegas to regional some national tours, even our son, Christopher, he did the national tour of meet me in St Louis with Debbie Boone, okay, and he's the one that is Now a successful producer. He's his latest hit. Well, his first, what can be considered legitimately a Broadway hit show was the show called shucked, and it opened about two years ago, I think, and I finally got to go back to New York and see it just a month before it closed. Very hilarious. Takes place in Iowa. The whole show is built around a county in which everybody that lives there makes their living off of corn, making whiskey. And it is a laugh, way more than a laugh a minute. But anyway, we had one of Gloria's acting students who was hired on with a Jonathan Winters TV sitcom called Davis rules. It ran for two seasons, and here he was like 16 or 17 years old, making, I think it was. He was making $8,000 a week, and he was in heaven. He looked like the Son he played, the grandson of Jonathan Winters and the son of Randy Quaid and so he, yeah, he was in heaven. And then after that, he did a very popular commercial, the 711 brain freeze commercial for Slurpee. The Slurpee, yeah, and he made the so much money from that, but then he kind of disappeared from showbiz. I don't know what he's doing nowadays,   Speaker 1 ** 43:00 but it's, it's, it's interesting to, you know, to hear the stories. And, yeah, I can understand that, that not everybody gets to be so famous. Everybody knows them, but it's neat that you had so many people who decided to make entertainment a career. So clearly, you had a pretty good influence on a lot of, a lot of kids.   Ron Cocking ** 43:20 Yes, I over the years, Gloria and I felt like we had 1000s of children of our own, that they that we had raised together. It's really a good feeling. And I still get phone calls. We got a phone call once a few years back from from one of our students who had been trying to crack the nut in New York, and she called us like 530 in the morning, because, of course, it was Yeah, but she had just signed her first national tour contract and was going to go out with the show cabaret. So fortunately, we were able to drive up to Santa not let's see, it's just below San San Jose. The show came through San Jose, and we got to see her up there. But those kinds of things are what made us keep teaching, year after year, all these success stories. Of course, we have former students that are now lawyers. Those are actors. Well, we   Michael Hingson ** 44:17 won't hold it and we understand, yeah and they are actors, by all means. How many teachers did you have in the studio when you had the big building?   Ron Cocking ** 44:26 Gosh, at one time, we had 10 or 12 teachers, teaching vocal teachers, two or three ballet teachers, jazz teachers, and you both taught as well. And we both continued teaching all through that time. We never just became managers, although that's that was part of it, and mixing business with art is a challenge, and it takes kind of a different mindset, and then what an unstoppable mindset you have to have in order to mix business with performing, because it's too. Different sides of your brain and a lot of patience and a lot of patience. And guess who taught me patience? Uh huh, Gloria Macmillan.   Michael Hingson ** 45:09 I would Conklin's daughter, yes, and I'll bet that's where she learned patience. No, I'm just teasing, but yeah, I hear you, yeah. Well, I know Karen and I were married for 40 years, until she passed in November of 2022 and there's so many similarities in what you're talking about, because we we could do everything together. We had challenges. Probably the biggest challenge that we ever had was we were living in Vista California, and I was working in Carlsbad, and the president of our company decided that we should open an office, because I was being very successful at selling to the government, we should open an office in the DC area. And so we both got excited about that. But then one day he came in and he had this epiphany. He said, No, not Virginia. I want you to open an office in New York. And Karen absolutely hated that she was ready to go to Virginia and all that.   Speaker 1 ** 46:15 But the problem for me was it was either move to New York or take a sales territory that didn't sell very much anymore. The owner wasn't really willing to discuss it, so we had some challenges over that, but the marriage was strong enough that it that it worked out, and we moved to New Jersey, and Karen made a lot of friends back there, but, you know, we always did most everything together. And then when the pandemic occurred, being locked down, it just proved all the more we just did everything together. We were together. We talked a lot, which is, I think one of the keys to any good marriages, and you talk and communicate.   Ron Cocking ** 46:56 Yes, in fact, when after we closed the studio in 2018 it took us a few more months to sell our home, and then when we moved down here, it was only about, I don't know, I don't know if it was a full year or not, but the pandemic hit and but it really didn't bother us, because we had, we had been working the teaching scene for so many years that we basically Were done. We basically walked out of the studio. We did. Neither of us have the desire to, well, let's continue in at some level, no, we cherished our time together. We have a little porch out in front of our home here, and it gets the ocean breeze, and we would sit for hours and chat. And oddly enough, not oddly, one of our favorite things to do, we have a website that we went to that had, I think, every radio show of armas Brooks ever made. And we would sit listen to those and just laugh. And, in fact, Gloria, there are some. She said, You know what? I don't even remember that episode at all. So yeah, that that was an interesting part. But yeah, Gloria and I, like your wife and you really enjoyed time together. We never talked about needing separate vacations or anything if we wanted to do something. We did it   Speaker 1 ** 48:16 together, yeah, and we did too. And you know, for us it was, it was out of desire, but also was easier for us, because she was in a wheelchair her whole life. I was I'm blind. I've been blind my whole life. And as I tell people, the marriage worked out well. She read, I pushed, and in reality, that really is the way it worked, yeah, yeah. Until she started using a power chair. Then I didn't push. I kept my toes out of the way. But still, it was, it was really did meld and mesh together very well and did everything   Ron Cocking ** 48:49 together. That's fantastic. I'm proud of you, Michael, and it really   Michael Hingson ** 48:53 it's the only way to go. So I miss her, but like, I keep telling people she's somewhere monitoring me, and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it. So I got to be a good kid,   Ron Cocking ** 49:04 and I'll hear I'll get some notes tonight from the spirit of Gloria McMillan too. I prayed to her before I went on. I said, please let the words flow and please not let me say anything that's inappropriate. And I think she's guided me through okay so far.   Michael Hingson ** 49:20 Well, if, if you do something you're not supposed to, she's gonna probably hit you upside the head. You know, did you two ever actually get to perform together?   Ron Cocking ** 49:30 Oh, I'm glad you asked that, because, well, it had been years since I knew that she was a darn good tap dancer. In fact, I had a tap dancing ensemble of of my more advanced kids, and if they wanted to dedicate the extra time that it took, we rehearsed them and let them perform at free of charge once they made it to that group, they they did not pay to come in and rehearse with me, because I would spend a lot of time standing there creating so. So we were doing a performance, and we wanted to spotlight, I forget the exact reason why we wanted to spotlight some of Gloria's career. Talk about radio a little bit. And I said, Gloria, would you do a little soft shoe routine? And because we had invited a mutual friend of ours, Walden Hughes, from the reps organization, and he was going to be the guest of honor, so I talked her into it. At first she wasn't going to go for it, but we had so much fun rehearsing it together. And it wasn't a long routine, it was relatively short, beautiful music, little soft shoe, and it was so much fun to say that we actually tap danced together. But the other times that we actually got to work together was at the old time radio conventions, mostly with reps, and that's really when I got to sit on stage. I was kind of typecast as an announcer, and I got to do some commercials. I got to sing once with Lucy arnazza. Oh, life, a life boy soap commercial. But when Gloria, Well, Gloria did the lead parts, and oh my gosh, that's when I realized what a superb actress she was. And if I don't know if you've heard of Greg Oppenheimer, his father, Jess Oppenheimer created the I Love Lucy shows, and so Gloria loved Jess Oppenheimer. And so Greg Oppenheimer, Jess Son, did a lot of directing, and oh my gosh, I would see he came in very well prepared and knew how the lines should be delivered. And if Gloria was not right on it, he would say, No, wait a minute, Gloria, I want you to emphasize the word decided, and that's going to get the laugh. And when he gave her a reading like that man, the next time she went through that dialog, just what he had asked for. And I thought, Oh my gosh. And her timing, after watching so many armist Brooks TV and listening to radio shows. GLORIA learned her comedic timing from one of the princesses of comedy timing is Eve Arden, right? They were so well for obvious reasons. They were so very similar. And if you have time to story for another story, do you know have you heard of Bob Hastings? He was the lieutenant on McHale's navy. McHale's Navy, right? Yeah. Well, he also did a lot of old time radio. So we went up to Seattle,   Michael Hingson ** 52:32 our two grandkids, Troy Amber, he played, not Archie. Was it Henry Aldridge? He was on,   Ron Cocking ** 52:40 I think you're right. I'm not too up on the cast of the old time radio show. Yeah, I think you're right. But anyway, he was there, and there was an actress that had to bow out. I don't know who that was, but our grandsons and Gloria and I, we walked in, and as usual, we say hi to everybody. We're given a big packet of six or eight scripts each, and we go to our room and say, Oh my gosh. Get out the pencils, and we start marking our scripts. So we get a phone call from Walden, and he said, hey, Ron Bob. Bob Hastings wants to see Gloria in his room. He wants to read through he's not sure if he wants to do the Bickersons script, because he you know, the gal bowed out and right, you know, so Gloria went down   Michael Hingson ** 53:23 couple of doors, coming   Ron Cocking ** 53:26 Yes, and she so she came back out of half an hour, 40 minutes later, and she said, well, that little stinker, he was auditioning me. He went in and she went in and he said, Well, you know, I don't know if I want to do this. It doesn't seem that funny to me. Let's read a few lines. Well, long story short, they read the whole thing through, and they were both, they were both rolling around the floor. I'll bet they laughing and so and then jump to the following afternoon, they did it live, and I was able to watch. I had some pre time, and I watched, and they were just fantastic together. I left after the show, I went to the green room, had a little snack, and I was coming back to our room, walking down the hall, and here comes Bob Hastings, and he says, oh, Ron. He said, Your wife was just fantastic. So much better than the other girl would have been. So when I told GLORIA That story that made her her day, her week. She felt so good about that. So that's my Bob Hastings story. Bob Hastings and Gloria Macmillan were great as the Bickersons.   Speaker 1 ** 54:29 Yeah, that was a very clever show. It started on the Danny Thomas show, and then they they ended up going off and having their own show, Francis Langford and Donna Michi, but they were very clever.   Ron Cocking ** 54:42 Now, did you realize when now that you mentioned Danny Thomas? Did you realize that Gloria's mom, Hazel McMillan, was the first female agent, talent agent in Hollywood? No, and that's how you know when the. They moved from from Portland, Oregon, a little city outside of Portland. They moved because Gloria's mom thought she had talent enough to do radio, and it wasn't a year after they got here to LA that she did her first national show for Lux radio at the age of five. That was in 1937 with with Edward G Robinson. I've got a recording of that show. What's what show was it? It was a Christmas show. And I don't remember the name of the of it, but it was a Christmas show. It was Walden that sent us. Sent   Michael Hingson ** 55:33 it to us. I'll find it. I've got it, I'm sure.   Ron Cocking ** 55:35 And so, yeah, so, so Gloria was a member of what they called the 500 club. There was a group of, I don't know, nine or 10 kids that by the time the photograph that I have of this club, it looks like Gloria is around 12 to 14 years old, and they had all done 500 or more radio shows. Wow, that's a lot of radio show. There's a lot of radio So Gloria did, I mean, I got a short my point was, her mom was an agent, and when Gloria was working so consistently at armas Brooks, she said, Well, I'm kind of out of a job. I don't need to take you. GLORIA could drive then. And so she came back from the grocery store, Ralph's market near Wilshire and Doheny, and she came back said, Well, I know what I'm going to do. I ran into this cute little boy at the grocery store. I'm going to represent him for television. And she that's, she started the Hazel McMillan agency, and she ran that agency until she just couldn't anymore. I think she ran it until early 1980s but she, my god, she represented people like Angela Cartwright on the Danny Thomas show and Kathy Garver on, all in the family a family affair. Family Affair. Yeah. Jane north. Jane North went in for Dennis the Menace. He didn't get the role. He came back said, Hazel, I don't think they liked me, and they didn't. They didn't call me back or anything. Hazel got on that phone, said, Look, I know this kid can do what you're asking for. I want you to see him again. He went back and they read him again. He got the part, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 57:21 and he was perfect for it.   Ron Cocking ** 57:22 He was perfect for that part was, I'm sorry.   Michael Hingson ** 57:27 It's sad that he passed earlier this year.   Ron Cocking ** 57:29 Yeah, he passed and he had, he had a tough life, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 57:36 well, you know, tell me you, you have what you you have some favorite words of wisdom. Tell me about those.   Ron Cocking ** 57:45 Oh, this goes back to the reason why I came across this when I was looking for something significant to say on the opening of one of our big concert programs. We used to do all of our shows at the California theater of Performing Arts in San Bernardino, it's a really, a real gem of a theater. It's where Will Rogers gave his last performance. And so I came across this, and it's, I don't know if this is biblical, you might, you might know, but it's, if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. And that's what I felt like Gloria and I were trying to do. We wanted to teach these kids as as professionally. We treated our students as they were, as if they were little professionals. We we expected quality, we expected them to work hard, but again, Gloria taught me patience, unending patience. But we knew that we wanted them to feel confident when the time came, that they would go out and audition. We didn't want them to be embarrassed. We want we wanted them to be able to come back to us and say, Boy, I felt so good at that audition. I knew all the steps I was and I and I read so well it was. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And so that aspect of it, we felt that we were feeding them for a lifetime, but we also were creating all of these arts patrons, all these lovers of the arts, 1000s of kids now love to go to musicals and movies and plays because they've kind of been there and done that at our studio. And so anyway, that's and whether, whether or not it was their confidence in show business or whether it was their confidence we've had so many calls from and visits from parents and former students saying, Boy, I just was awarded a job. And they said my my communication skills were excellent, and I owe that to Gloria. I was on the beach the other day, and I looked over and there was this young man and his wife. I assumed it was his wife. It was they were setting. Up their beach chairs, and I looked and I say, Excuse me, is your name Brandon? And he said, No, but he said, Is your name Ron? And I said, Yes. He said, No, my name is Eric. And I said, Eric puentes. And so we reminisced for a while. He took tap from me. He took acting from Gloria, and he said, you know, he was sad to hear of Gloria's passing. And he said, You know, I owe so much to Gloria. I learned so much about speaking in front of groups. And he is now a minister. He has his own church in Redlands, California, and he's a minister. And of all the billion people on the beach, he sits next to me. So that's one of those things when it's supposed to   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:41 happen. It happens. It does. Yeah, well, and as we talked about earlier, you and Gloria did lots of stuff with reps, and I'm going to miss it this time, but I've done a few, and I'm going to do some more. What I really enjoy about people who come from the radio era, and who have paid attention to the radio era is that the acting and the way they project is so much different and so much better than people who have no experience with radio. And I know Walden and I have talked about the fact that we are looking to get a grant at some point so that we can train actors or people who want to be involved in these shows, to be real actors, and who will actually go back and listen to the shows, listen to what people did, and really try to bring that forward into the recreations, because so many people who haven't really had the experience, or who haven't really listened to radio programs sound so forced, as opposed to natural.   Ron Cocking ** 1:01:46 I agree, and I know exactly what you're saying. In fact, Walden on a couple of at least two or three occasions, he allowed us to take some of Gloria's acting students all the way to Seattle, and we did some in for the spurred vac organization Los Angeles, we did a beautiful rendition of a script that we adapted of the Velveteen Rabbit. And of all people, Janet Waldo agreed to do the fairy at the end, and she was exquisite. And it's only like, I don't know, four or five lines, and, oh my gosh, it just wrapped it up with a satin bow. And, but, but in some of our kids, yeah, they, they, they were very impressed by the radio, uh, recreations that they were exposed to at that convention.   Speaker 1 ** 1:02:37 Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's, it is so wonderful to hear some of these actors who do it so well, and to really see how they they are able to pull some of these things together and make the shows a lot better. And I hope that we'll see more of that. I hope that we can actually work to teach more people how to really deal with acting from a standpoint of radio,   Ron Cocking ** 1:03:04 that's a great idea. And I know Walden is really sensitive to that. He Yeah, he would really be a proponent of that.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:10 Oh, he and I have talked about it. We're working on it. We're hoping we can get some things. Well, I want to thank you for being here. We've been doing this an hour already.  

In this episode of the World Languages Collaborative Podcast, Professor Grant Gearhart welcomes Dr. Sheri Spaine Long, a true leader and innovator in the field of language education. Over the course of her distinguished career, Dr. Spaine Long has worn just about every hat imaginable, including teacher, scholar, author, editor, administrator, and advocate. Now serving as Director Emerita of the American Association of Teachers of Spanish and Portuguese (AATSP), she joins us to shine a light on a lesser-known but highly influential organization: the National Federation of Modern Language Teachers Associations (NFMLTA).Together, we discuss how this vital resource supports research, collaboration, and professional growth across the world language community.Connect with the NFMLTA on social media:LinkedInInstagram

Every once in a while, I meet someone whose story reminds me why inclusion and communication go hand in hand. My guest this week, Shabnam Asthana, is one of those people. She's a global PR leader, entrepreneur, and author who has spent her life turning words into bridges that connect people and purpose. We talk about her journey from teaching and lecturing at India's National Defence Academy to leading global communications for major brands—and what it taught her about empathy, leadership, and real inclusion. Shabnam shares how storytelling can turn data into emotion, and why true diversity is less about representation and more about respect. Her message is powerful and deeply human: being unstoppable begins with an open heart, quiet courage, and the willingness to rise again. If you're ready to lead with empathy and communicate with purpose, this conversation will stay with you long after it ends. Highlights: 00:43 – Hear how early role models and a working mother raised ambitions and set a path toward leadership. 03:39 – Learn why strong communication skills pointed her toward PR and how debates built confidence. 05:24 – See why teaching became the first step when women in PR roles were rare in smaller cities. 08:12 – Discover what it took to lecture at India's National Defence Academy and earn respect in a rigid setting. 12:09 – Understand the leap from academia to corporate PR after being scouted for communication excellence. 15:50 – Learn how serving as a spokesperson shaped internal and external messaging at a Swedish-Indian firm. 17:01 – Gain a humble view of global work and why inclusion means moving from tokenism to listening. 21:08 – Compare India and Sweden and see how representation differs from real inclusion in practice. 24:18 – Learn how small, specific acts like adding sign to slides can make people feel genuinely seen. 34:24 – Find out how storytelling turns CSR spreadsheets into human change that inspires action. 43:22 – Explore the choice to found Empowered Solutions and why entrepreneurship kept growth alive. 53:06 – Take a fresh definition of an unstoppable mindset rooted in resilience and an open heart. About the Guest: A multi-faceted Professional, who has fast tracked from being a reputed National name to a well-respected and emulated global one! Shabnam Asthana has added new dimensions to Global PR and Communications. She has to her credit, post graduate degrees in English Literature, Public Relations and Advertising, an MBA in Marketing Management & several International certifications including a prestigious Hon. Doctorate in Business Administration from the National American University USA (NAU). She has over 25 years of rich professional experience. She started her career in the educational field as a high school teacher and then moved on to the role of a Lecturer at the prestigious National Defence Academy, Khadkwasla. She was the only civilian who compered for the Passing out parades, PT & Equestrian display and the Graduation ceremony of the NDA for 3 consecutive years. This was covered live on Doordarshan. It was after one of the Passing out Parades that she was compering at the NDA, that a senior position in a reputed company was offered to her and thus began her foray into the corporate world. After her successful corporate stint in senior positions with reputed companies including Multinationals in India and abroad and reputed real estate businesses, she started her own PR and communications firm, Empowered Solutions in 2005 which has been running successfully since then. Adding offices in USA and Canada as part of its international expansion. Ways to connect with Jan: Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabnam_Asthana Instagram https://www.instagram.com/shabnamasthana/?hl=en Linked in - https://in.linkedin.com/in/dr-shabnam-asthana-7b174a5 Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ShabnamAsthana/ X - https://x.com/shabnamasthana VyaapaarNiti Expert Profile - https://www.vyaapaarniti.com/expert/dr-shabnam-asthana- Tring Celebrity Platform - https://www.tring.co.in/shabnam-asthana About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, Hi again, everyone. I am your host, Michael Hingson, and you are here listening to or watching or both, unstoppable mindset today, our guest is a person of many talents, and I think you're going to be as amazed about her as I am. Shabnam Asthana is a person who has been involved in she was a teacher for a while. She's been very heavily involved in a variety of things at the corporate level. She started her own marketing firm in 2005 and I don't know what all my gosh, she's got so many things, it's really hard to keep up, but I'm sure she's going to tell us all about it, and I am looking forward to that. And I really appreciate all of you being here with us. So Shabnam, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. And thank you for being here.   Shabnam Asthana ** 02:15 Thank you, Michael, truly wonderful to be with here, and thank you for that amazing introduction. You make me feel as if I've worn a professional cape of so many accolades and so many things. It's wonderful to be here with you.   Michael Hingson ** 02:32 Michael, well, you do have lots of awards and lots of accolades.   Shabnam Asthana ** 02:38 That's just one part of the journey. The true reward is in the, you know, work that I do, these stories, that I shape, the narratives that spring in that is the true reward. And of course, accolades are always welcome, and they are a way of encouragement, which do ensure that, yes, I continue doing the good work.   Michael Hingson ** 03:00 Well, why don't we start back at the beginning, which is always fun to do. Why don't you tell us about the early Shabnam growing up?   Shabnam Asthana ** 03:08 Okay, that's something which is very close to my heart. I was born in India in a small city called Bokaro, Steel City. It was a Steel City. It was an industrial town, and we were a very close knit community, and we had lots of, you know, interaction with people. I came from a background where both my parents, my mother and my father were working, and at that point of time, a working woman was sort of seen as a novelty, not something I'm talking way, way back. And now the people will also guess my age, I guess because it's pretty way back. And that was the time when we weren't India was still developing, and women were still not seen as the working class, you know, especially in senior corporate positions. And my mother was a senior officer in the steel plant, so that set my aspirations and ambitions very high. And I wanted to emulate her. I wanted to be someone who was working now what I would do I was not very sure of, but yes, I wanted to be working. And then later on, my sister, my both my sisters, were also working, my older siblings, and of course, that set the tone for me to also hop into the professional shoes, and, you know, chart out a career path for myself. So,   Michael Hingson ** 04:44 so what? What did you do? As far as schooling? Did you go to college?   Shabnam Asthana ** 04:51 Yes, I went to the local school there, which was an English medium good school called sin Xavier School. And that was some. Thing which really groomed me for the future, that set the foundations for my career. And after that, I did my schooling in the my college, sorry, in the capital city of India, which is Delhi. And then on, I moved to a place which is close to Mumbai, which is Pune, and I continued my education there. And of course, my career started in Pune. That is when I got into academics, and then henceforth,   Michael Hingson ** 05:34 so when you were in college, and as you were coming out of it, what did you want to do with your life? What was your plan? Or did you have one?   Shabnam Asthana ** 05:43 Yes, I did have one. Like I said, I was always good in communications, and people used to tell me that you are a good communicator. I used to win all the debates. I used to win elocution competitions. And I said, Well, yes, communication does seem to be my forte, so why don't I build on that? And then I saw my father, he was in the public relations industry, and I somehow at the back of my mind, I said, Yes, that is something I would surely want to do. So why not try my hand at PR? And that's how the seeds of my career was planted in my mind, and then it developed there on.   Michael Hingson ** 06:30 But you started out in education and in teaching.   Shabnam Asthana ** 06:34 Yes, that's very interesting. I'll tell you. I wanted to start my career in PR, but I was in a place which was a small city, and it was a place called Jamshedpur, before I moved on to Pune, and there, the career scope was very limited. We didn't have women in the PR. In fact, it was unheard of. So the best thing, or the easiest thing that a woman could do was to hop on the bandwagon of academics. And not saying that it was something you know, that was not looked up to. But yes, I did enjoy my role as a school teacher. That was my first job in Jamshedpur, a small it was, again, a steel city in India, and I became a high school teacher, and quite enjoyed it, because that was also communication. It was the way you communicated with your students, and, you know, sort of got them into, got them interested in what they were learning. So that was, again a stepping stone, and it was the area of communications which expanded later on.   Michael Hingson ** 07:47 So how long did you stay in teaching?   Shabnam Asthana ** 07:51 I was there for about two years in Jamshedpur, and then I moved on to Pune. And guess what the next opportunity I got was as a lecturer in the National Defense Academy. That was a place where the future generals were being groomed, and I was a civilian who, sort of, I was the only civilian, probably, who got into the teaching profession there and there I spent a good four years truly memorable. Worth remembering recounting. There was so many incidents, and I loved teaching. That was something which I did at the National Defense Academy too. Although that was at a higher level, it was very different from the school teaching which I had done. This was more, you know, on a national level, where you had to be more, and there was a lot of discipline which came in, because it was the future, you know, Army personnel, Navy personnel, so all that, there was a lot of discipline that came in and that groomed me better. I understood what the world of discipline meant in the true sense, because I lived   Michael Hingson ** 09:10 it right. What? How did you discover the job at the defense Academy? Though that's certainly a whole lot different than teaching high school students or maybe not.   Shabnam Asthana ** 09:23 It is a whole lot intimidating. Let me tell you that it's very intimidating to walk into a room full of, you know, future generals, army people you don't know who you know who you are, I mean, who they are, and you sort of get very intimidated by the kind the aura is very, very intimidating.   Michael Hingson ** 09:46 How did you discover that job? Yes,   Shabnam Asthana ** 09:49 that was done. We in India, we have something which is called the employment exchange. So you register there and you give your qualify. You list down your qualifications, and you know whatever you are planning to do, and they invite you for certain vacancies. So one fine day, I was just sitting and having my lunch at home when I received a letter, and the letter was an interview call for the National Defense Academy. I literally jumped out of my skin because I was a school teacher, and then being asked to appear for an interview in the National Defense Academy itself was a big leap for me. Whether I got it or not was a different thing. But then to sort of come on board and go and sort of appear for an interview was also something very exciting. And when I went there, I was like, I said, the only civilian The rest were army officers, wives and daughters, you know, related to the working personnel there. So when I went, I was interviewed by the three representatives from all the three wings, that is the Navy, the Air Force and Army. And that was a very good experience. They asked me a lot of questions, and I believe it was later on I was told that it was my confidence that got me in. So thanks to that, I   Michael Hingson ** 11:23 was going to ask you why you why you got in, or why you think you got in. And yes,   Shabnam Asthana ** 11:30 yeah, I did ask them that later, and unofficially, I was told that. Well, it was the way you carried yourself, the confidence and, you know, the excitement and enthusiasm that you shared, which was very, very refreshing.   Michael Hingson ** 11:48 So what exactly did you do at the academy?   Shabnam Asthana ** 11:53 I was teaching them English, and I was teaching them literature. I don't know how interested they were in literature, but then the feedback that I got, which was, you know, the it was a routine feedback, which we have the teachers get. So I used to get good marks, and people used to say, yes, that, you know, your classes are engrossing. It's good. And then, apart from that, there was something very interesting I did, which was I compared for their passing out parades, and I compared for all their shows. And that was something which was covered on television, and that gave me a different kind of foothold in my profession, where I was being seen, where I was being heard, and my confidence grew by leaps and bounds. I was being accepted as a woman. I was being accepted as a civilian. And that was something which was very, very heartwarming for me,   Michael Hingson ** 13:01 and I would assume, very difficult to achieve,   Shabnam Asthana ** 13:05 I think so I do yes, in retrospect, yes.   Michael Hingson ** 13:09 So you did that for roughly four years. Yes. And why did you leave that? What was your? Was your thought about that,   Shabnam Asthana ** 13:21 okay, I would have gone on. It was such a glorious part of my career. But, you know, change, they say, is constant, and that is something which happened. I was comparing for a passing out parade when the chairman of a corporate company which was doing rather well, heard me, and he was impressed by my communication, my speaking abilities, my, you know, the way I was presenting things. And he said he offered me a job, and he said, Why don't you come and join my office and come in as a PR person for my company, and that's exactly I was actually, you know, not very sure whether I wanted to leave this an industry and career where I was already established, where people knew me, and just hop on to the corporate world. But if you remember, that was my ambition. That was what I had always won right at the start. So the moment it came, it almost felt as if it fell into my laps. And I said, Why don't I do that? Yes, and this is a good opportunity, and I must take it up. My I spoke to my family, and they too, felt that it was a good stepping stone to move on. And so I accepted it, and that was my entry into the world of PR, in the corporate   Michael Hingson ** 14:48 world. So what year was that this   Shabnam Asthana ** 14:53 was way back on now you are prompting me to give away my age, which is like. Like ancient, I'd be a fossil. Okay, yes, this was way back in the 90s,   Michael Hingson ** 15:06 okay, and that was kind of what I was curious about. So at that time, industry was a little bit more stable than it was later on, but, but still, you You did it, and you so you stepped into that goal, into that role, and so you became part of the PR world, which is, as you said, what you wanted to do initially, anyway. So, so how long did you stay at that company? I   Shabnam Asthana ** 15:39 stayed there for about four years, and then the chairman of the company passed away. Unfortunately, he was on a trip to China, and he suffered a massive cardiac arrest, so I was working very closely with him in his office, and as is the norm of the industry, once the leader is not there things you know, sort of crumble, and you know, there's reorganization. New faces come in, and normally the new people bring their own teams. So I felt as if, you know, before they told me to sort of move out or something. I don't know why I pre empted that. I said, Why don't I myself make a shift and join some other industry? I mean, join some other company, which I did. Again, I applied. It was a Swedish company, and again, it was one of the best moves that I could have made. I spent a good 12 years in that company, which Hogan is India Limited, I must name them. They were brilliant. And I spent a very, very good part of my career with that company.   Michael Hingson ** 16:56 And so again, you did primarily PR, or what did you Yes, it was   Shabnam Asthana ** 17:02 PR and it was handling the chairman and managing director's office. So the entire communication was handled through me, the internal as well as the external communication. I was a spokesperson, yes,   Michael Hingson ** 17:18 so you became so in a sense, sort of the face of the company.   Shabnam Asthana ** 17:21 Yes, I did. It's nice to feel that yes, that it was a good many years that I was the face of the company in terms of communication, yes,   Michael Hingson ** 17:33 right, right. And, and where were you doing this?   Shabnam Asthana ** 17:38 This was in Pune, and their head office was in Sweden. I used to sort of move between the two. It was a very global company. The subsidiary was an Indian subsidiary, but the parent company was Swedish. So we had a lot of global travel   17:56 that kept you busy. That did so   Shabnam Asthana ** 17:59 there were conferences, and there were so many meetings which were happening,   Michael Hingson ** 18:03 yes, right? So what did, what did you? What did you learn from all of that? Do you think   Shabnam Asthana ** 18:12 it was a very humbling experience? You know, more than the excitement, I was armed with a lot of excitement, because that would have been one of my first trips outside India. I was I had a lot of excitement, lots of things were on my mind, but then ultimately, when one does travel and work in a global company, it's a very humbling experience, because you are exposed to your strengths and also your blind spots, your strengths, your weaknesses, everything comes to you and then you feel that diversity is not always about representation. It's about respect and inclusion is moving from tokenism to listening. That is what I felt, you know, adapting various voices to your workplace, working in unison, trying to empathize with people from different cultures, different streams, different departments, all that really broadened my horizon. So that was something which I learned.   Michael Hingson ** 19:30 So what was the culture like, in terms of since you were at a global company, as it were, how was it different when you were dealing with Sweden, as opposed to when you were dealing with India.   Shabnam Asthana ** 19:45 In India, we don't have diversity as a choice. In India, we are served diversity on a platter because you are born with being diverse. You have. Are numerous religions, you have culture. So we are adaptable people in that sense. But strangely enough, it's a paradox. If I would tell you that inclusion is still a work in progress. Inclusion isn't automatic. It doesn't come to you like that. You have to work for it. Now there is a big change, but I'm talking of the days, way back in the 90s when women in boardrooms were a novelty. So sometimes it was just purely for ornamental value. Sad to say that. But gradually you had to open up, you have to open the doors, and you have to say, look, we are here for a reason. And please listen to our voices too. And that's how we started. I started sort of, I remember once when I was moving in India. I mean, not in Sweden, but once when I was in India, and I was in a strategic board meeting. I was the only woman in the room, and the people were sort of, I could sense the expressions. People were curious, people were dismissing. People were sort of, you know, not sort of prepared to take or listen to me, that was a little bit of a setback. But then gradually, when I started moving abroad, and I started seeing more women, and then gradually, when I was moving so were the others, and they too saw the kind of change that was happening. And so it was pretty difficult in India, initially, if I were to be very honest, Sweden was more inclusive. I could see a lot of women in the workforce. And gradually, since we were sort of interacting with each other, we absorbed each other's cultures and values, and the company became very, very inclusive. So it was a pleasure to work there.   Michael Hingson ** 22:08 Okay, so in a sense, there were, there are parts of Sweden that made you happier than what you were in the East initially experiencing in India.   Shabnam Asthana ** 22:19 Absolutely, absolutely, and I have no hesitation in saying that, because they were welcoming. They were welcoming. And the not necessarily my company, but any company in India, the representation of women, especially in PR, was very, very limited. Now we have evolved, and it's a world of difference, and I'm so happy to see that.   Michael Hingson ** 22:48 How about you, may or may not have a lot of expertise in this, but how about if we're going to talk about inclusion and so on, people with disabilities, both in India and in Sweden and so on and again. I don't know whether you really had much experience or exposure to that. I   Shabnam Asthana ** 23:06 do. I did have my share of exposure, maybe not extensive, but yes, I do. I remember there's this one incident I'd like to talk to you about. It was in Paris. I was in a conference, and there was a deaf girl in the conference room. I could see people making presentations and knowing fully well, because we had the list of participants, and we had their intros, their introductions with us, my team. And you know, of course, I headed that team. We made a special endeavor to include sign in our presentation. And she was so happy because she said, you know, she came to me and she expressed to me that although I have participated so many times in meetings, and especially corporate meetings, I am so happy to see. It was the first time that I felt I was seen and I was not just a presence. So she was very happy with the kind of, you know, preparation that we did for her especially. So I believe it's very nice if people learn to respect each other and learn to believe that not everybody is similar. You may have so many strengths which I don't have. I do not see any physical disability as a handicap. I'm very, very sure about that, I do not see anybody who appears different or who doesn't have the same listening capacity, hearing capacity, to be different from me. They have their own strengths. So I truly believe that, you know, disability. In that sense, is something which does not put a person in the back seat. How.   Michael Hingson ** 25:09 How was that attitude received? Well, both at the company, when you were when you were in the room with her, and you were signing and so on. How did other people receive that? And how was that kind of attitude received initially in India?   Shabnam Asthana ** 25:29 Well, to be very honest, Michael, it wasn't something that is the done thing. People do not accept that. They are like, well, it's a general presentation. We really don't have to make specific I do remember a person who came up to me and said, Shabnam, why did you make a very specific presentation? It was a very general presentation by you doing that, you have set a precedent for others to sort of make them feel small, you know. So he took it in a very negative way. Said, you've made us feel very small. I said, no, please do not look at it that way. It is something where we have made her feel a part of us. It is not trying to belittle anybody, trying not to, you know, get a an edge over others. All of us are the same. It's just that I made it a little easier for her. That's what I just told him, and probably he did, walk away with a smile. I don't know whether it was a sarcastic one or whether it was a smile of acceptance, but then I got my   Michael Hingson ** 26:38 point. I took was this was this in Sweden or India. This was in Paris. In Paris, okay, yes,   Shabnam Asthana ** 26:46 okay, this was a conference, which was   Michael Hingson ** 26:49 she said that, right? Well, you know, the reality is that's all part of the inclusive mindset and the inclusion mindset, and it is so true that most people don't tend to realize it Yes. So I hear what you're saying,   Shabnam Asthana ** 27:10 yes, and realization and sort of acceptance has evolved. People are more accepting. People are more flexible. You know, the rigidity earlier, people were very rigid. Now there is a lot of flexibility. I believe that, right?   Michael Hingson ** 27:32 Well, I think it's better. I'm I think there are still all too many people who tend not to really have an overly inclusive mindset. And it is, it is something that that will be with us for a while, and hopefully over time, people will become more open and realize the value of inclusion. In this country, we have, well and around the world, we have a significant number of people who have these so called physical disabilities, and the reality is that the disability is more caused by inaction mostly than it is by real action.   Shabnam Asthana ** 28:12 Absolutely yes. And I also seriously believe that diversity enriches the outcomes. I have some I have practical experience, and I've seen that. So inclusion enriches outcomes in many ways, right?   Michael Hingson ** 28:35 How has all of your traveling and all of your exposure in various places around the world. How has that tended to shape your understanding of diversity and inclusion?   Shabnam Asthana ** 28:50 Okay, yes, that's a very interesting question. I have seen that challenges are real, biases, stereotypes and expectations that women need to prove themselves twice as much also exists in many, many parts of the world. So they have been. I mean, there have been certain cultures, certain countries, which are very easy to breeze through when you are at work meetings or you're talking to people. But there are certain countries in the let's say in the Middle East, the Far East, which are still not very open to, you know, women taking on lead roles, women strategizing, women talking things that would influence decisions. So sometimes there's also a word I'd like to put in here that sometimes it is not country specific. Specific. It is very individual, specific. So there, like you said, you know, there are certain mindsets which still exist. There are people who may be residing in countries that are very open and very receptive, but their own mindset is limiting. And it is a mindset which is closed, it is rigid. So that stops and that prevents any inclusion. You know that, if I were to put it that way, so I would say it's not merely, not always country specific. Yes, individuals have to evolve themselves and change their mindsets. So it's sometimes I've seen it's countries are good, but some individuals are rigid. I've seen some individuals that are good, but the countries that are rigid. So it sort of works both ways.   Michael Hingson ** 30:54 And it's not just about women, it is about anybody who is different. Yes, then the so called norm, whatever that happens to be, absolutely   Shabnam Asthana ** 31:03 inclusion is not limited to women. So again, I'd like to clarify that it's inclusion is a broad spectrum. So yes, of course, we are a small part of it. But yes,   Michael Hingson ** 31:17 you have written a book, yes, romancing your career and and also you've done a lot of mentoring, obviously, and so on. But what do you mean when you talk about women? And I would say anybody who's different need to define success on their own terms. Tell me more about that.   Shabnam Asthana ** 31:41 So women, or anybody, let's not be very specific about women, because then it would be detracting from the main subject of inclusion. Anybody who wants to be heard has to believe in one thing, that silence is not the answer. Courage is so you have to move from silence to courage. Try and portray your point of view. Speak to people if they listen to you good enough if they don't, it's not as if the doors are closed. If the doors are closed, you can surely open a window for yourself, and it works. So just being silent or being very subdued or being very you know sad that your point of view, or being upset, for that matter, that your point of view is not being listened to is not the answer. You have to show courage. You have to do your homework, right? Remember that value is something that takes anybody places. It's not about being a woman, it's not about being any nationality, any ethnicity. It's just that you have to carry value in whatever you are trying to bring to the table. Once people see value, they will forget whether you are of XYZ nationality or you're an Indian, or you are of any other you're any other gender, if I may say that. So it's the value that a person should work towards. Everybody should work towards bringing value to the table. That is what will get you noticed, and that is what will see you going places. Yes, it did.   Michael Hingson ** 33:43 And again, I think one of the important things is that, from my standpoint, and I keep pushing it, but it's there is that it also is the same for for so called disabilities. One of the things that I maintain is that everybody on the planet has a disability, and the disability for most people is that you depend on light in order to function, and when suddenly light disappears, you have a big problem, unless you have a way to get light back on demand. But we are. We're not ready to accept that as a as a race yet, so people think that's cute, but, but they're not ready to accept it. It doesn't change the fact that it's really there. But the fact of the matter is that that people do have to speak up for themselves, and there are ways to do that, and there are ways not to do that. It isn't a matter of being obnoxious and demanding, but it is all about, as you expressed it earlier, being confident and showing that confidence and showing your knowledge and showing what you bring to the table absolutely well. You've been involved in PR for a long time, and I'm sure that you would agree, one of the main tools that people in the public relations world and elsewhere have to offer is storytelling. I believe the best salespeople are people who can tell stories and can help relate. But my question would be to ask you, how can storytelling bridge communities and bring people together?   Shabnam Asthana ** 35:31 Storytelling is a very, very strong element of PR. Storytelling humanizes everything. It brings in a lot of connection. So people connect automatically, if your storytelling is good, so like I keep telling all my juniors as well or new interns who join in corporate fact sheets can be informative. They can give you facts, but storytelling will transform everything. So you move from information to transformation. Storytelling is the human angle to everything. All of us love you a human angle. For example, let me tell you I was in a meeting which was quite a few years ago, and the CEO of the company was telling me they've done a lot of work in corporate social responsibility. So he wanted to tell me about all the expenditure that they've done. They've uplifted so many schools. They've done so much. They've spent so much on education, they've spent so much on water, on sanitation and so many other things, which has improved the lives of the citizens there. I told him, could you tell me one story of one life that has been affected. So he was at a loss because he had not he did not dive deep into that. He didn't look beyond the numbers and the figures. So his HR person stepped in and he told me a story of a girl. She was an Indian girl. Her name was Aarti. How they had transformed her life, and she had moved on to studying in Howard, and she was being employed in one of the top American companies there. So that was something, a story of transformation. So that is so you know, I believe the power of storytelling and that connected everybody, even his own people, were not aware. The employees were not aware. They were just sort of working like robos, putting in their number of hours, doing their work, not going beyond their call of duty to actually see what was happening to the effects, the efforts of their activities. This was something which we brought out in all their corporate brochures, in all the marketing that they were doing, in all the marketing collaterals that worked wonders. We had lots of inquiries for people who wanted to support them in many ways. We had an interview of the girl, and it was something which was very we added a human angle. So like I said, storytelling humanizes the entire concept, and that is something which connects people. So, yes, it's very   Michael Hingson ** 38:42 interesting. Did he learn to tell stories after that?   Shabnam Asthana ** 38:46 I believe so, because he was so he was really taken aback. And he said, Wow, I never really thought about it. And you told me, You changed my perspective. You made me see it differently. And if I were to say we got a good retainership After that, because he was very happy and my contract was renewed. So that was something which sort of affected the contract too well.   Speaker 1 ** 39:19 The reality is that when you tell a story, it is telling stories is something that most everyone can truly relate to, and when you tell a story that someone listens to or hears and reacts to it,   Michael Hingson ** 39:40 there's nothing better than that, and it's really important that that kind of thing happens. So I'm really glad to hear that you like storytelling. I think it is so important that we have that   39:51 absolutely,   Michael Hingson ** 39:54 yeah, it's so important to be able to do that. Well, you've told us a little bit. About inclusion and diversity and so on in India and in other countries. Do you think it's changing, both in India and in other countries? And how is it changing?   Shabnam Asthana ** 40:15 It is changing. If you go back to the 90s to the present day, you will see that people have become I think it has a lot to do with travel. It has a lot to do with interaction. So people are interacting with each other. I speak to you, you speak to me, you tell me something about you, and I say, Hey, is that worth listening to? Yes, it is. And I try and change my mindset. I become more receptive. I try and tell you my viewpoint. You listen to me. You hear me out. So I have seen companies that have moved beyond check boxes of how many women, how many people with disabilities they've, you know, inducted in the employment stream, in their jobs, and it's become more of the CEOs or the top management asking their people, how many voices have we listened to? How many decisions have been made by these people whom we have taken in. You know, how have we evolved as a company? So that has made me see in boardrooms, in various meetings, that the top management is also very aware of what kind of decisions, what policies, are being framed with people as a diverse group. And it's not funneled or restricted to just the top few. It trickles down and it goes to the people they've hired from diverse groups, and it becomes like a voice of the company. So I have seen that changing, and I have seen that diversion is now diversity sort of is moving more towards the corporate DNA. So it is not a demand anymore. It's not a checkbox. It's more as if it is flowing in naturally, and people are more aware of it. So that's what I've seen.   Michael Hingson ** 42:32 It's a mindset, it is, and people are starting to adopt that. How is it changing in India? You said that in India there's a lot more diversity. But you said inclusion isn't so much there.   Shabnam Asthana ** 42:46 Yes, it is in see in India, it was globally, I saw that diversion was backed by policies, and there was a certain framework which had a set of rules. It had a set of code of conduct. But in India, it was more based on individual goodwill. So we had people, if the CEO or the top management was pro diversity, it would happen automatically, because the ones at the junior level had no choice. They had to naturally comply. But here now in India, it's become more organized, more structured, and people, there are departments now which look into issues of diversity and inclusion, and they try and make the organization work towards that. So they are big companies. They are small companies in India, all are trying to absorb this in the corporate DNA, like I said. So people are conscious. And there are conscious. There are seminars which are happening. People are being spoken to. There is workplace, you know sensitization that follows. People talk about it, people discuss it, and there is a lot of exchange of dialog which happens. So people talk, people learn, people adapt   Michael Hingson ** 44:15 well. So you you work for the Swedish company, for you said, like, 12 years, and then what did you   Shabnam Asthana ** 44:25 do after that? I moved on to, you know, start my own company, which was empowered solutions. That's my brain child, and it's a communications PR and communications company, and I, sort of, I'm the founder director for that the Empowered solutions is my company now, and we are completed. It was set up in 2005 October.   Michael Hingson ** 44:50 2005 what? What made you decide to leave the bigger corporate world and take on all of the challenges of entrepreneur? Leadership and starting your own company, because that certainly is a major change.   Shabnam Asthana ** 45:04 It is I was in the top management. I had a set job, I had the name, the recognition, everything that comes with that. But somehow there was still that kind of, I would say, curiosity, to experiment and to try on newer things. And I am a person who gets a little bored of stagnation, and I had almost reached the height of my career in these companies, and there was nothing more I could do unless I bought over those companies and sort of, you know, became the president and the chairman, which I would I could not do. So I said, Why don't I sort of diversify and take all this learning that I have, all the goodwill that I've earned over the years with the people that have been my clients, with my colleagues, with the people I've met in my business conferences. Why don't I take all this and try and set up something on of my own where I am at liberty to do whatever I want to do without the time pressure, you know, without a pressure of morning meetings and you know, things which have to be a nine to five kind of a role here, I do agree that it is a 24 by seven job that I'm doing at present, because I'm always available. And, you know, I believe that accessibility is very important if you have to be successful, you can't sort of close off and say, no, no, I'm, you know, if somebody needs you, you can't say, Okay, I'm just closing my door and my office. So that was the the, you know, the excitement of experimenting once again and seeing, of course, entrepreneurship is something which is very exciting, and that was something which I wanted to experiment and try and see how I could change that. And, you know, get it into my career. And, you know, get off the normal nine to five job. So that's what I did. I wanted to experiment.   Michael Hingson ** 47:21 So tell me a little bit more about if you would what your company does and how you serve clients and so on. And where are your clients?   Shabnam Asthana ** 47:29 Okay, so basically, it is a PR and communications company, and we have clients now globally. I have primarily in India, because that is where my office is. But I do have clients in Europe, in us, in Canada, where I am currently. And yes, it is more about public relations and communications, and that's what we do. So it's essentially a diversification of I have also taken on writing as part of one of my services. So I do a lot of book writing. I take on people who want to be either who want to tell a story, and who don't have either the time or the expertise. I write for them. I ghost right for them. We also do events. So we have done a couple of events globally, not on a very large scale, but yes, we do have. So it's events, it's public relations, it's communications, it's training, and it's writing.   Michael Hingson ** 48:39 So that's it, right? Well, so you have written one book. Are you looking at doing any more books? By any chance?   Shabnam Asthana ** 48:49 Now I have ghost written about 16 books. So they're all ghost written and under a contract where I don't disclose the names of the books. But yes, I've authored three books, and the first one was romancing your career, a very interesting and fascinating book. That was my first book, and later on, I went on to do two biographies, and yes, I'm doing a couple more correctly, where they are being authored by me. So I'm writing the biographies.   Michael Hingson ** 49:26 So today, in all the work that that you're, that you're doing, do you, do you get involved with many international projects?   Shabnam Asthana ** 49:39 Yes, not many, but yes, we are doing a slow and steady progress there. And we do, I do, keep getting a lot of inquiries. And I must say that I have got a couple of inquiries recently which are very interesting. And I. Working on those. Maybe it's a little premature to tell you that, but yes, there is one big project that has come my way, and we're planning to expand from there. Well.   Michael Hingson ** 50:12 So you have experienced a lot of different countries and so on, and India is certainly becoming more of an economic and a world power in the in terms of what all is happening. Do you think that that the attitudes of India and the way India deals with inclusion and so on is making a difference, and Will that continue to happen?   Shabnam Asthana ** 50:43 Well, Michael, it will, because we are moving out of our country, and we have, you know, taken spots in so many other countries. So if we want to be included, it's high time we practice the same. So we have to welcome other cultures. We have to welcome other nationalities if we hope to be welcomed in other countries as well. So that is something which has really influenced the thinking of people, because we can't be rigid. We can't be, you know, thinking in our own way. And say, Well, let's not do it, because we have to welcome other countries if we have to work and move out of India. So yes, Michael, I will say that very hard. It's very heartening to note that it is changing, and it will continue to do so. In fact, you know, India is moving from being seen as an outsourced to something which people sort of welcome with open arms. But then, yes, things are changing. There are things which are happening which may limit the movement of people, or it may increase the flow of people. But then, well, we have to adopt, adapt and move on.   Michael Hingson ** 52:04 Yeah, well, there's always going to be some of that which makes which makes sense. Yes. What kind of advice would you give to someone, especially young professionals, women and others who are different? What advice would you give to someone who may feel excluded or undervalued in their careers.   Shabnam Asthana ** 52:25 The best thing that I would like to say is that if you hear a no, don't let it bog you down, because be sure that tomorrow you will hear a better yes, it will be something that is shaping the way for your future. So you must not let any naysayers or any projects that fail bog you down just because you're a woman or because you're different or anybody you know. You have to show your courage, you have to be resilient, and you have to lean on your inner strengths. The best magic, the you know, time tried and tested formula, which I would advocate, is leaning on your inner strengths. All of us have a lot of strengths, believe you me, we may not know it, but all of us have a lot of strengths. So when you see a situation that is not to your liking, just lean on your inner strengths. Take a deep breath and say today's no will be a yes tomorrow, and that is the courage that you must move ahead with anybody, irrespective of whether you are a woman or you are any person who is stepping into the corporate world. Just value yourself. Always Be confident. Wear the confidence. And that's the best accessory that you would have.   Michael Hingson ** 54:03 How would you define unstoppable mindset?   Shabnam Asthana ** 54:08 Unstoppable mindset is not something which is something which rises beyond limitations. And by limitations, I don't mean only individual limitations. It may be the limitations of the other people. Let that not define your limitation. Your the term unstoppable, to me, is a term which shows resilience. It shows something where you can fumble. It's very natural to fumble, to stumble, to fall down, to face challenges, to face, you know, rejections. It's very normal, but unstoppable is. Being able to get up again with greater strength, with a better mindset, more courageously, and more importantly, with an open heart, which says, Yes, I will do it. You cannot say you cannot. You know, sort of put me down in any way. My courage is there, my inner strength is there. I am unstoppable in that sense.   Michael Hingson ** 55:28 I think the most important thing that you just said is that you have to do it with an open heart. I think everyone should do that you may learn that your idea may not be the best solution, and it might be the best solution, but you won't know that until you truly have an open heart and an open mind.   Shabnam Asthana ** 55:46 Truly, yes, absolutely, an open heart, I would say, is really, really key. It's very, very important.   Michael Hingson ** 55:56 What keeps you motivated as you continue to advocate for adverse diversity and inclusion and equity and so on.   Shabnam Asthana ** 56:04 What keeps me motivated? Michael, are many things, but then what i If I could just zero down on a couple of them, I would say that what keeps me motivated is the trust that people had in me, and, you know, to give me certain jobs, roles, the trust that they had to sort of say, okay, you can do it. And then I did it. And the people, what keeps me motivated is something also very nice, which somebody came up to me at a recent conference in Germany, and they said, you know, the reason why I didn't give up is because of you. That is me, because I motivated them to do something, and that was your motivation for me, I was like, Okay, if I can motivate you, I too can stay motivated for a long, long time to come. And that's something which I do. I try to inspire and I try to inspire myself as well in the process.   Michael Hingson ** 57:07 Well, if you could leave everyone who is involved in hearing this podcast and so on today, if you could leave them with one powerful message about embracing diversity and so on. What would that message be?   Shabnam Asthana ** 57:23 Well, that message would be that whatever is happening today, if you feel that there is even a little bit of acceptability, that is because somebody else has worked towards it, so now it is your chance to give it back to society, to keep working, to keep opening doors for people, for a better tomorrow, for a more inclusive tomorrow. And diversity doesn't and inclusivity doesn't happen overnight. You have to work towards it. There is a it's the whole process, and you have to work towards it relentlessly. Continue working. Somebody else has worked. They have pushed you forward. They have done a whole lot of things. Now it's your turn to do your bit and ensure that the people who are coming after you come to a better tomorrow, a more inclusive tomorrow.   Michael Hingson ** 58:27 It also, by definition, means that we need to learn how to work with each other and support and help each other,   Shabnam Asthana ** 58:34 of course. And empathy. Empathy is the key, empathy, sensitivity, all that.   Michael Hingson ** 58:41 So if people would like to reach out to you, maybe use your company services or talk with you. How can they do that?   Shabnam Asthana ** 58:48 They could contact me. You can write to me at my email id, which is Shabnam, S, H, A, B n, a m, at empowered solutions, my company name, E, M, P, O, W, E, R, E, D, S, o, l, U, T, I O, N, S, dot, I n, that's my name. The emails will reach me. That's an inbox which you know I'm monitoring myself, and be sure that you will receive a reply. I'd love to hear from people, and I love to communicate. I love to write back. So very welcome.   Michael Hingson ** 59:30 And I would ask, just sort of on principle, if anyone reaches out to Shabnam, who has heard this podcast, please mention that, just so that she knows where you where you discovered her, and I think that would be a good thing to do. Well, I want to thank you for being here. I think this has been absolutely wonderful. I think we've learned a lot I have and I value the insights that you bring. So I hope that other people will take the. Those same insights away, there's there's a lot to learn here, and there's a lot to gain from this. So I want to thank you again for being here, and maybe we'll have to do this again in the future.   Shabnam Asthana ** 1:00:12 I'd love to do that. And Michael, I'd like to thank you for hosting this wonderful, wonderful show. I have seen your episodes. They are brilliant, and it's really nice. I was so looking forward to this. It's been an absolute pleasure to interact with you, and I hope that we'll be doing more of this in the near future.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:35 Well, we'll have to explore that, and I want to thank all of you who are out there watching and listening. I want to thank you for being here. We appreciate you very much. Wherever you're listening or watching. Please give us a five star review. We value that very highly. We really would appreciate you saying good things about us. A five star review is always a wonderful thing. I'd like to hear from you as well. I'd like to hear what your thoughts are about this podcast. Feel free to email me at Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts. We value them, and we take all the comments that we get from people very much to heart. So we appreciate you doing that. And if you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on our podcast, who you think ought to be a guest, let us know. Introduce us. Shabnam, that's also true for you, please. If you know anyone who ought to be a guest, we'd love to meet people and have them come on the podcast and also help us show how we're all more unstoppable than we think we are, or we thought we were. So once again, though, I want to thank you for being here. Shabnam, this has been wonderful. Thank you very much.   Shabnam Asthana ** 1:01:51 Thank you, Michael, thank you to all the listeners.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:01:59 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

BAM! 2025 - coming to you live on location. Yep, October is more recognisable for being Breast Cancer Awareness Month, but while Blindness Awareness Month is less familiar to some, it sounds better, more straightforward, rolling off the tongue as acronym than BCAM. This week on Outlook, with the start of a new month…October, we're highlighting BAM even though, we always say, every month is BAM for us. On this BAM Mixed Bag episode sister/co-host Kerry is streaming live and on route, but luckily makes it back to “the flat” still within the first half of the show, a major Uk cellphone service is down which made it difficult to get a cab back from the furniture warehouse. But luckily, freezer deal was found (with help from Barry's assistant AI as he terms his co-processor) and service from the store's sales guy was excellent (lovely British chap) who didn't necessarily know how to assist two blind people, yet was all the things we ask anyone to be when interacting with the public. BAM getting off to a pretty good start after last week's nightmare (see previous Outlook for more on what not to do. It's really not that much different from how to assist anyone else, just be willing to listen to our guidance, as we know what we need as blind people). It's Thanksgiving for brother/co-host Brian back in Canada, but it's also Columbus Day in the States (Indigenous Peoples Day in approximately 30 states now) and we're discussing this update/correction on which one is preferable, along with celebrating our lovely mother's birth, and thankfully the cab finally arriving to take Kerry and BF Barry home is hardly noticeable in the background. We're comparing Canada and The States as baseball rivalries intensify in October. Some things are, as “American as apple pie” while we're talking thankfulness (which should be as obvious as “Apple cake” with details of what Historian Heather Cox Richardson says about Columbus Day's origins, years of colonial subjugation, and the difference in definitions that can become glaringly clear in 100 years. Outlook On Radio Western stands on the foundation of Diversity and we're talking definitions of all of this, plus on things like BAM or World Sight Day, from orgs like the National Federation of the Blind (NFB) or the Foundation Fighting Blindness (FFB) and using a daytime TV infomercial about “blind children in poorer countries” and how helpless images make it seem. While no country should think itself above another like how even the Canadian National Institute for the Blind (CNIB) tries to raise money by using Canada's blind people and cute images of guide dogs to elicit pity and donations. The NFB thinks of BAM more from the standpoint of independence which often, to them means employment, but though we reject another definition that's all about the patronising angle of everything we do as inspirational, we lay out the harmful impacts of something like the messaging from World Sight Day's promotional material. While the International Agency for the prevention of blindness (the IAPB) is focusing on eye health around the world, some organisations and charities and nonprofits go about fundraising in reckless ways. Brian is riding the fader live in the studio while Kerry was out tracking down monkey nuts (but shhh Mom is listening), returning by cab and sharing how drivers often struggle (as sighted as sighted can be) to find the address, Kerry foreshadowing a recent struggle with such things plus one of Marlee Matlin's similar experiences with those of us who have our sense of hearing which Kerry heard on a recent audio description project. That's why our mom recently painted Kerry's garage door bright red and put up a huge house number, Barry in the process of doing something similar for those drivers who might as well be blind behind the wheel, Brian using the example of Uber drivers trying to find the door into the University Community Centre (UCC) where we record our show out of. We use the Pin The Tail On The Donkey example of disorientation to make the point that these are just more additions of those tropes that are harmful to us blind people and those that are simply the truth of our current reality. Multi sensory, multi media, and interactive - from a recent work experience she had doing cultural consulting and quality control for Toronto's version of the Nuit Blanche festival, she then tells of another Canadian connection (as we call it) when out during a Saturday pub night for many in neighbouring Belfast. Instead Kerry and Barry chose to attend a local boy's return performance, Brian Kennedy (Canada has Cory Hart while Northern Ireland has BK), to the classic Black Box Theatre as he played some Joni Mitchell covers including “Woodstock,” (not the same Woodstock but still). So on this one Brian with an “I” and Kerry with a “y” are talking the Dominos that have to fall in our lives with dealing with how sometimes sighted people can and do suck which adds up the blocks of frustration and fatigue as Kerry shares a bit about a recent visitor experience at Belfast's Titanic Museum and how baseball radio broadcasts put us on an equal playing field (baseball metaphor there for you). BAM! It gets someone's attention at least and we're thankful for our mother, apple cake instead of pumpkin pie, and the Toronto Bluejays beating The Yankees and moving on to take the American League championship, from east to west and north to south - BAM begins.

What does it take to keep a family business thriving for generations? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I talk with Jan Southern, a seasoned business advisor who helps family-owned companies build long-term success through structure, trust, and clarity. We explore why so many family firms lose their way by the third generation—and what can be done right now to change that story. Jan shares how documenting processes, empowering people, and aligning goals can turn complexity into confidence. We unpack her “Three Ps” framework—People, Process, and Product—and discuss how strong leadership, accountability, and smart AI adoption keep growth steady and sustainable. If you've ever wondered what separates businesses that fade from those that flourish, this conversation will show you how to turn structure into freedom and process into legacy. Highlights: 00:10 – Why unexpected stories reveal how real businesses grow. 01:39 – How early life in Liberal, Kansas shaped a strong work ethic. 07:51 – What a 10,000 sq ft HQ build-out teaches about operations. 09:35 – How a trading floor was rebuilt in 36 hours and why speed matters. 11:21 – Why acquisitions fail without tribal knowledge and culture continuity. 13:19 – What Ferguson Alliance does for mid-market family businesses. 14:08 – Why many family firms don't make it to the third generation. 17:33 – How the 3 Ps—people, process, product—create durable growth. 20:49 – Why empowerment and clear decision rights prevent costly delays. 33:02 – The step-by-step process mapping approach that builds buy-in. 36:41 – Who should sponsor change and how to align managers. 49:36 – Why process docs and succession planning start on day one. 56:21 – Realistic timelines: six weeks to ninety days and beyond. 58:19 – How referrals expand projects across departments. About the Guest: With over 40 years of experience in the realm of business optimization and cost-effective strategies, Jan is a seasoned professional dedicated to revolutionizing company efficiency. From collaborating with large corporations encompassing over 1,000 employees to small 2-person offices, Jan's expertise lies in meticulously analyzing financials, processes, policies and procedures to drive enhanced performance. Since joining Ferguson Alliance in 2024, Jan has become a Certified Exit Planning Advisor and is currently in the process of certification in Artificial Intelligence Consulting and Implementation, adding to her ability to quickly provide businesses with an assessment and tools that will enhance their prosperity in today's competitive landscape. Jan's forte lies in crafting solutions that align with each client's vision, bolstering their bottom line and staffing dynamics. Adept in setting policies that align with company objectives, Jan is renowned for transforming challenges into opportunities for growth and longevity. With a knack for unraveling inefficiencies and analyzing net income, Jan is a go-to expert for family-owned businesses looking to extend their legacy into future generations. Ways to connect with Jan: Email address : Jan@Ferguson-Alliance.com Phone: 713 851 2229 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jansouthern cepa Website: https://ferguson alliance.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone. I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. But the neat thing about it is we don't usually deal with inclusion or diversity. We deal with everything, but that because people come on this podcast to tell their own stories, and that's what we get to do today with Jan southern not necessarily anything profound about inclusion or diversity, but certainly the unexpected. And I'm sure we're going to figure out how that happens and what's unexpected about whatever I got to tell you. Before we started, we were just sitting here telling a few puns back and forth. Oh, well, we could always do that, Jan, well, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank you so much. Glad to be here. Any puns before we start?   Jan Southern ** 02:09 No, I think we've had enough of those. I think we did it   Michael Hingson ** 02:11 in, huh? Yes. Well, cool. Well, I want to thank you for being here. Jan has been very actively involved in a lot of things dealing with business and helping people and companies of all sizes, companies of all sizes. I don't know about people of all sizes, but companies of all sizes in terms of becoming more effective and being well, I'll just use the term resilient, but we'll get into that. But right now, let's talk about the early Jan. Tell us about Jan growing up and all that sort of stuff that's always fun to start with.   Jan Southern ** 02:50 Yes, I grew up in Liberal Kansas, which is a small town just north of the Oklahoma border and a little bit east of New Mexico kind of down in that little Four Corners area. And I grew up in the time when we could leave our house in the morning on the weekends and come home just before dusk at night, and our parents didn't panic, you know. So it was a good it was a good time growing up. I i lived right across the street from the junior high and high school, so I had a hugely long walk to work, I mean,   Michael Hingson ** 03:28 to school,   Jan Southern ** 03:30 yeah, and so, you know, was a, was a cheerleader in high school, and went to college, then at Oklahoma State, and graduated from there, and here I am in the work world. I've been working since I was about 20 years old, and I'd hate to tell you how many years that's been.   Michael Hingson ** 03:51 You can if you want. I won't tell   03:55 nobody will know.   Michael Hingson ** 03:57 Good point. Well, I know it's been a long time I read your bio, so I know, but that's okay. Well, so when you What did you major in in college psychology? Ah, okay. And did you find a bachelor's degree or just bachelor's   Jan Southern ** 04:16 I did not. I got an Mrs. Degree and had two wonderful children and grew up, they've grown up and to become very fine young men with kids of their own. So I have four grandchildren and one great grandchild, so   Michael Hingson ** 04:33 Wowie Zowie, yeah, that's pretty cool. So when you left college after graduating, what did you do?   Jan Southern ** 04:40 I first went to work in a bank. My ex husband was in pharmacy school at Oklahoma, State University of Oklahoma, and so I went to work in a bank. I was the working wife while he went to pharmacy school. And went to work in a bank, and years later, became a bank consultant. So we we lived in Norman, Oklahoma until he was out of school and and as I began having children during our marriage, I went to work for a pediatrician, which was very convenient when you're trying to take care of kids when they're young.   Michael Hingson ** 05:23 Yeah, and what did you What did you do for a pediatrician?   Jan Southern ** 05:27 I was, I was her receptionist, and typed medical charts, so I learned a lot about medicine. Was very she was head of of pediatrics at a local hospital, and also taught at the university. And so I got a great education and health and well being of kids. It was, it was a great job.   Michael Hingson ** 05:51 My my sister in law had her first child while still in high school, and ended up having to go to work. She went to work for Kaiser Permanente as a medical transcriber, but she really worked her way up. She went to college, got a nursing degree, and so on, and she became a nurse. And eventually, when she Well, she didn't retire, but her last job on the medical side was she managed seven wards, and also had been very involved in the critical care unit. Was a nurse in the CCU for a number of years. Then she was tasked. She went to the profit making side of Kaiser, as it were, and she was tasked with bringing paperless charts into Kaiser. She was the nurse involved in the team that did that. So she came a long way from being a medical transcriber.   Jan Southern ** 06:51 Well, she came a long way from being a single mom in high school. That's a great story of success.   Michael Hingson ** 06:56 Well, and she wasn't totally a single mom. She she and the guy did marry, but eventually they they did divorce because he wasn't as committed as he should be to one person, if it were,   Speaker 1 ** 07:10 that's a familiar story. And he also drank and eventually died of cirrhosis of the liver. Oh, that's too bad. Yeah, that's always sad, but, you know, but, but she coped, and her her kids cope. So it works out okay. So you went to work for a pediatrician, and then what did you do?   Jan Southern ** 07:31 Well, after my husband, after he graduated, was transferred to Dallas, and I went to work for a company gardener, Denver company at the time, they've been since purchased by another company. And was because of my experience in banking prior to the pediatrician, I went to work in their corporate cash management division, and I really enjoyed that I was in their corporate cash management for their worldwide division, and was there for about four years, and really enjoyed it. One of my most exciting things was they were moving their headquarters from Quincy, Illinois down to Dallas. And so I had been hired. But since they were not yet in Dallas, I worked with a gentleman who was in charge of putting together their corporate offices. And so we made all the arrangements. As far as we had a got a 10,000 square foot blank space when we started. And our job was to get every desk, every chair, every pen and pencil. And so when somebody moved from Quincy, Illinois, they moved in and they had their desk all set up. Their cuticles were cubicles were ready to go and and they were they could hit the ground running day one, so that,   Michael Hingson ** 09:02 so you, you clearly really got into dealing with organization, I would would say, then, wouldn't, didn't you?   Jan Southern ** 09:11 Yes, yes, that was my, probably my first exposure to to the corporate world and learning exactly how things could be more efficient, more cost effective. And I really enjoyed working for that company.   Michael Hingson ** 09:30 I remember, after September 11, we worked to provide the technology that we were selling, but we provided technology to Wall Street firms so they could recover their data and get set up again to be able to open the stock exchange and all the trading floors on the 17th of September. So the next Monday. And it was amazing, one of the companies was, I think it was Morgan Stanley. Finally and they had to go find new office space, because their office space in the World Trade Center was, needless to say, gone. They found a building in Jersey City that had a floor, they said, about the size of a football field, and from Friday night to Sunday afternoon, they said it took about 36 hours. They brought in computers, including IBM, taking computers from some of their own people, and just bringing them into to Morgan Stanley and other things, including some of the technology that we provided. And within 36 hours, they had completely reconstructed a trading floor. That's amazing. It was, it was absolutely amazing to see that. And you know, for everyone, it was pretty crazy, but Wall Street opened on the 17th and and continued to survive.   Jan Southern ** 10:57 That's a great story.   Michael Hingson ** 10:59 So what did you do? So you did this, this work with the 10,000 square foot space and other things like that. And then what?   Jan Southern ** 11:08 Well, once, once everyone moved into the space in Dallas. Then I began my work in their in their corporate cash management area. And from there, my next job was working in a bank when my my husband, then was transferred back to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I went back to work in banking. And from that bank, I was there about three to four years, and I was hired then by John Floyd as a as a consultant for banks and credit unions, and I was with that company for 42 years. My gosh, I know that's unusual these days, but I really enjoyed what I did. We did re engineering work and cost effectiveness and banks and credit unions for those 42 years. And so that was where I really cut my teeth on process improvement and continuous improvement, and still in that industry. But their company was bought by a an equity firm. And of course, when that happens, they like to make changes and and bring in their own folks. So those of us who had been there since day one were no longer there.   Michael Hingson ** 12:26 When did that happen?   Jan Southern ** 12:27 That was in 2022   Michael Hingson ** 12:32 so it's interesting that companies do that they always want to bring in their own people. And at least from my perspective, it seems to me that they forget that they lose all the tribal knowledge that people who have been working there have that made the company successful   Jan Southern ** 12:51 Absolutely. So I guess they're still doing well, and they've done well for themselves afterwards, and but, you know, they do, they lose all the knowledge, they lose all of the continuity with the clients. And it's sad that they do that, but that's very, very common.   Michael Hingson ** 13:13 Yeah, I know I worked for a company that was bought by Xerox, and all the company wanted was our technology. All Xerox wanted was the technology. And they lost all of the knowledge that all the people with sales experience and other kinds of experiences brought, because they terminated all of us when the company was fully in the Xerox realm of influence.   Jan Southern ** 13:39 So you know what I went through? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 13:42 Well, what did you do after you left that company? After you left John Floyd,   Jan Southern ** 13:47 I left John Floyd, I was under a I was under a non compete, so I kind of knocked around for a couple of years. I was of age where I could have retired, but I wasn't ready to. So then I found Ferguson Alliance, and I'm now a business advisor for family owned businesses, and so I've been with Ferguson just over a year, and doing the same type of work that I did before. In addition to that, I have become a certified Exit Planning advisor, so that I can do that type of work as well. So that's that's my story in a nutshell. As far as employment,   Michael Hingson ** 14:26 what is Ferguson Alliance?   Jan Southern ** 14:29 Ferguson Alliance, we are business advisors for family owned businesses. And the perception is that a family owned business is going to be a small business, but there are over 500,000 family owned businesses in the United States. Our market is the middle market, from maybe 50 employees up to 1000 20 million in revenues, up to, you know, the sky's the limit, and so we do. Do a lot of work as far as whatever can help a family owned business become more prosperous and survive into future generations. It's a sad statistic that most family owned businesses don't survive into the third generation.   Michael Hingson ** 15:16 Why is that?   Jan Southern ** 15:19 I think because they the first the first generation works themselves, their fingers to the bone to get their their business off the ground, and they get successful, and their offspring often enjoy, if you will, the fruits of the labors of their parents and so many of them, once they've gone to college, they don't have an interest in joining the firm, and so they go on and succeed on their own. And then their children, of course, follow the same course from from their work. And so that's really, I think, the primary reason, and also the the founders of the businesses have a tendency to let that happen, I think. And so our coaching programs try to avoid that and help them to bring in the second and third generations so that they can, you know, they can carry on a legacy of their parents or the founders.   Michael Hingson ** 16:28 So what do you do, and what kinds of initiatives do you take to extend the longevity of a family owned business then,   Jan Southern ** 16:39 well, the first thing is that that Rob, who's our founder of our family owned business, does a lot of executive coaching and helps the helps the people who are within the business, be it the founder or being at their second or third generations, and he'll help with coaching them as to how to, hey, get past the family dynamics. Everybody has their own business dynamics. And then you add on top of that, the family dynamics, in addition to just the normal everyday succession of a business. And so we help them to go through those types of challenges, if you will. They're not always a challenge, but sometimes, if there are challenges, Rob's coaching will take them through that and help them to develop a succession plan that also includes a document that says that that governance plan as to how their family business will be governed, in addition to just a simple succession plan, and my role in a lot of that is to make sure that their business is ready to prosper too. You know that their their assessment of as far as whether they're profitable, whether they are their processes are in place, etc, but one of the primary things that we do is to help them make certain that that if they don't want to survive into future generations, that we help them to prepare to either pass it along to a family member or pass it along to someone who's a non family member, right?   Michael Hingson ** 18:34 So I've heard you mentioned the 3p that are involved in extending longevity. Tell me about that. What are the three P's?   Jan Southern ** 18:41 Well, the first p is your people. You know, if you don't take care of your people, be they family members or non family members, then you're not going to be very successful. So making certain that you have a system in place, have a culture in place that takes care of your people. To us, is very key. Once you make sure that your people are in a culture of continuous improvement and have good, solid foundation. In that regard, you need to make sure that your processes are good. That's the second P that that you have to have your processes all documented, that you've authorized your people to make decisions that they don't always have to go to somebody else. If you're a person in the company and you recognize that something's broken, then you need to have empowerment so that your people can make decisions and not always have to get permission from someone else to make certain that those processes continuously are approved improved. That's how to you. Could have became so successful is they installed a product. They called it, I say, a product. They installed a culture. They called it kaizen. And so Kaizen was simply just continuous improvement, where, if you were doing a process and you ask yourself, why did I do it this way? Isn't there a better way? Then, you know, you're empowered to find a better way and to make sure that that that you can make that decision, as long as it fits in with the culture of the company. Then the third P is product. You know, you've got to have a product that people want. I know that you've seen a lot of companies fail because they're pushing a product that nobody wants. And so you make certain that your products are good, your products are good, high quality, and that you can deliver them in the way that you promise. And so those are really the 3p I'd like to go back to process and just kind of one of the things, as you know, we had some horrendous flooding here in Texas recently, and one of the things that happened during that, and not that it was a cause of it, but just one of the things that exacerbated the situation, is someone called to say, Please, we need help. There's flooding going on. It was one of their first responders had recognized that there was a tragic situation unfolding, and when he called into their system to give alerts, someone says, Well, I'm going to have to get approval from my supervisor, with the approval didn't come in time. So what's behind that? We don't know, but that's just a critical point as to why you should empower your people to make decisions when, when it's necessary.   Michael Hingson ** 21:56 I'm sure, in its own way, there was some of that with all the big fires out here in California back in January, although part of the problem with those is that aircraft couldn't fly for 36 hours because the winds were so heavy that there was just no way that the aircraft could fly. But you got to wonder along the way, since they are talking about the fact that the electric companies Southern California, Edison had a fair amount to do with probably a lot a number of the fires igniting and so on, one can only wonder what might have happened if somebody had made different decisions to better prepare and do things like coating the wires so that if they touch, they wouldn't spark and so on that they didn't do. And, you know, I don't know, but one can only wonder.   Jan Southern ** 22:53 It's hard to know, you know, and in our situation, would it have made any difference had that person been able to make a decision on her own? Yeah, I was moving so rapidly, it might not have made any any difference at all, but you just have to wonder, like you said,   Michael Hingson ** 23:10 yeah, there's no way to, at this point, really know and understand, but nevertheless, it is hopefully something that people learn about for the future, I heard that they're now starting to coat wires, and so hopefully that will prevent a lot, prevent a lot of the sparking and so on. I'd always thought about they ought to put everything underground, but coating wire. If they can do that and do it effectively, would probably work as well. And that's, I would think, a lot cheaper than trying to put the whole power grid underground.   Jan Southern ** 23:51 I would think so we did when I was with my prior company. We did a project where they were burying, they were putting everything underground, and Burlington Vermont, and it was incredible what it takes to do that. I mean, you just, we on the outside, just don't realize, you know, there's a room that's like 10 by six underground that carries all of their equipment and things necessary to do that. And I never realized how, how costly and how difficult it was to bury everything. We just have the impression that, well, they just bury this stuff underground, and that's all. That's all it takes. But it's a huge, huge undertaking in order to do that   Michael Hingson ** 24:36 well. And it's not just the equipment, it's all the wires, and that's hundreds and of miles and 1000s of miles of cable that has to be buried underground, and that gets to be a real challenge.   Jan Southern ** 24:47 Oh, exactly, exactly. So another story about cables. We were working in West Texas one time on a project, and we're watching them stretch the. Wiring. They were doing some internet provisioning for West Texas, which was woefully short on in that regard, and they were stringing the wire using helicopters. It was fascinating, and the only reason we saw that is it was along the roadways when we were traveling from West Texas, back into San Antonio, where flights were coming in and out of so that was interesting to watch.   Michael Hingson ** 25:28 Yeah, yeah. People get pretty creative. Well, you know, thinking back a little bit, John Floyd must have been doing something right to keep you around for 42 years.   Jan Southern ** 25:40 Yes, they did. They were a fabulous country company and still going strong. I think he opened in 1981 it's called advantage. Now, it's not John Floyd, but Right, that was a family owned business. That's where I got to cut my teeth on the dynamics of a family owned business and how they should work and how and his niece is one of the people that's still with the company. Whether, now that they're owned by someone else, whether she'll be able to remain as they go into different elements, is, is another question. But yeah, they were, they were great.   Michael Hingson ** 26:20 How many companies, going back to the things we were talking about earlier, how many companies when they're when they buy out another company, or they're bought out by another company, how many of those companies generally do succeed and continue to grow? Do you have any statistics, or do more tend not to than do? Or   Jan Southern ** 26:40 I think that more tend to survive. They tend to survive, though, with a different culture, I guess you would say they they don't retain the culture that they had before. I don't have any firm statistics on that, because we don't really deal with that that much, but I don't they tend to survive with it, with a the culture of the newer company, if they fold them in, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 27:15 Well, and the reality is to be fair, evolution always takes place. So the John Floyd and say, 2022 wasn't the same as the John Floyd company in 1981   Jan Southern ** 27:31 not at all. No, exactly, not at all.   Michael Hingson ** 27:34 So it did evolve, and it did grow. And so hopefully, when that company was absorbed elsewhere and with other companies, they they do something to continue to be successful, and I but I think that's good. I know that with Xerox, when it bought Kurzweil, who I worked for, they were also growing a lot and so on. The only thing is that their stock started to drop. I think that there were a number of things. They became less visionary, I think is probably the best way to put it, and they had more competition from other companies developing and providing copiers and other things like that. But they just became less visionary. And so the result was that they didn't grow as much as probably they should have.   Jan Southern ** 28:28 I think that happens a lot. Sometimes, if you don't have a culture of continuous improvement and continuous innovation, which maybe they didn't, I'm not that familiar with how they move forward, then you get left behind. You know, I'm I'm in the process right now, becoming certified in artificial intelligent in my old age. And the point that's made, not by the company necessarily that I'm studying with, but by many others, is there's going to be two different kinds of companies in the future. There's going to be those who have adopted AI and those who used to be in business. And I think that's probably fair.   Michael Hingson ** 29:13 I think it is. And I also we talked with a person on this podcast about a year ago, or not quite a year ago, but, but he said, AI will not replace anyone's jobs. People will replace people's jobs with AI, but they shouldn't. They shouldn't eliminate anyone from the workforce. And we ended up having this discussion about autonomous vehicles. And the example that he gave is, right now we have companies that are shippers, and they drive product across the country, and what will happen to the drivers when the driving process becomes autonomous and you have self driving vehicles, driving. Across country. And his point was, what they should do, what people should consider doing is not eliminating the drivers, but while the machine is doing the driving, find and give additional or other tasks to the drivers to do so they can continue to be contributors and become more efficient and help the company become more efficient, because now you've got people to do other things than what they were used to doing, but there are other things that AI won't be able to do. And I thought that was pretty fascinating,   Jan Southern ** 30:34 exactly. Well, my my nephew is a long haul truck driver. He owns a company, and you know, nothing the AI will never be able to observe everything that's going on around the trucking and and you know, there's also the some of the things that that driver can do is those observations, plus they're Going to need people who are going to program those trucks as they are making their way across the country, and so I'm totally in agreement with what your friend said, or your you know, your guests had to say that many other things,   Michael Hingson ** 31:15 yeah, and it isn't necessarily even relating to driving, but there are certainly other things that they could be doing to continue to be efficient and effective, and no matter how good the autonomous driving capabilities are, it only takes that one time when for whatever reason, the intelligence can't do it, that it's good To have a driver available to to to to help. And I do believe that we're going to see the time when autonomous vehicles will be able to do a great job, and they will be able to observe most of all that stuff that goes on around them. But there's going to be that one time and that that happens. I mean, even with drivers in a vehicle, there's that one time when maybe something happens and a driver can't continue. So what happens? Well, the vehicle crashes, or there's another person to take over. That's why we have at least two pilots and airplanes and so on. So right, exactly aspects of it,   Jan Southern ** 32:21 I think so I can remember when I was in grade school, they showed us a film as to what someone's vision of the country was, and part of that was autonomous driving, you know. And so it was, it was interesting that we're living in a time where we're beginning to see that, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 32:41 we're on the cusp, and it's going to come. It's not going to happen overnight, but it will happen, and we're going to find that vehicles will be able to drive themselves. But there's still much more to it than that, and we shouldn't be in too big of a hurry, although some so called profit making. People may decide that's not true, to their eventual chagrin, but we shouldn't be too quick to replace people with technology totally   Jan Southern ** 33:14 Exactly. We have cars in I think it's Domino's Pizza. I'm not sure which pizza company, but they have autonomous cars driving, and they're cooking the pizza in the back oven of the car while, you know, while it's driving to your location, yeah, but there's somebody in the car who gets out of the car and brings the pizza to my door.   Michael Hingson ** 33:41 There's been some discussion about having drones fly the pizza to you. Well, you know, we'll see,   Jan Southern ** 33:50 right? We'll see how that goes. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:53 I haven't heard that. That one is really, pardon the pun, flown well yet. But, you know, we'll see. So when you start a process, improvement process program, what are some of the first steps that you initiate to bring that about? Well, the first   Jan Southern ** 34:11 thing that we do, once we've got agreement with their leadership, then we have a meeting with the people who will be involved, who will be impacted, and we tell them all about what's happening, what's going to happen, and make certain that they're in full understanding. And you know, the first thing that you ever hear when you're saying that you're going to be doing a re engineering or process improvement is they think, Oh, you're just going to come in and tell me to reduce my staff, and that's the way I'm going to be more successful. We don't look at it that way at all. We look at it in that you need to be right. Have your staff being the right size, and so in in many cases, in my past. I we've added staff. We've told them, you're under staffed, but the first thing we do is hold that meeting, make certain that they're all in agreement with what's going to happen, explain to them how it's going to happen, and then the next step is that once management has decided who our counterparts will be within the company. Who's going to be working with us to introduce us to their staff members is we sit down with their staff members and we ask them questions. You know, what do you do? How do you do it? What do you Did someone bring it to you. Are you second in line or next in line for some task? And then once you finish with it, what happens to it? Do you give someone else? Is a report produced? Etc. And so once we've answered all of those questions, we do a little a mapping of the process. And once you map that process, then you take it back to the people who actually perform the process, and you ask them, Did I get this right? I heard you say, this? Is this a true depiction of what's happening? And so we make sure that they don't do four steps. And they told us steps number one and three, so that then, once we've mapped that out, that gives us an idea of two of how can things be combined? Can they be combined? Should you be doing what you're doing here? Is there a more efficient or cost effective way of doing it? And we make our recommendations based on that for each process that we're reviewing. Sometimes there's one or two good processes in an area that we're looking at. Sometimes there are hundreds. And so that's that's the basic process. And then once they've said yes, that is correct, then we make our recommendations. We take it back to their management, and hopefully they will include the people who actually are performing the actions. And we make our recommendations to make changes if, if, if it's correct, maybe they don't need to make any changes. Maybe everything is is very, very perfect the way it is. But in most cases, they brought us in because it's not and they've recognized it's not. So then once they've said, yes, we want to do this, then we help them to implement.   Michael Hingson ** 37:44 Who usually starts this process, that is, who brings you in?   Jan Southern ** 37:48 Generally, it is going to be, depending upon the size of the company, but in most cases, it's going to be the CEO. Sometimes it's the Chief Operating Officer. Sometimes in a very large company, it may be a department manager, you know, someone who has the authority to bring us in. But generally, I would say that probably 90% of our projects, it's at the C   Michael Hingson ** 38:19 level office. So then, based on everything that you're you're discussing, probably that also means that there has to be some time taken to convince management below the CEO or CEO or a department head. You've got to convince the rest of management that this is going to be a good thing and that you have their best interest at heart.   Jan Southern ** 38:43 That is correct, and that's primarily the reason that we have for our initial meeting. We ask whoever is the contract signer to attend that meeting and be a part of the discussion to help to ward off any objections, and then to really bring these people along if they are objecting. And for that very reason, even though they may still be objecting, we involve them in the implementation, so an implementation of a of a recommendation has to improve, has to include the validation. So we don't do the work, but we sit alongside the people who are doing the implementation and guide them through the process, and then it's really up to them to report back. Is it working as intended? If it's not, what needs to be changed, what might improve, what we thought would be a good recommendation, and we work with them to make certain that everything works for them. Right? And by the end of that, if they've been the tester, they've been the one who's approved steps along the way, we generally find that they're on board because they're the it's now. They're now the owners of the process. And when they have ownership on something that they've implemented. It's amazing how much more resilient they they think that the process becomes, and now it's their process and not ours.   Michael Hingson ** 40:32 Do you find most often that when you're working with a number of people in a company that most of them realize that there need to be some changes, or something needs to be improved to make the whole company work better. Or do you find sometimes there's just great resistance, and people say no, there's just no way anything is bad.   Jan Southern ** 40:53 Here we find that 90% of the time, and I'm just pulling that percentage out of the air, I would say they know, they know it needs to be changed. And the ones typically, not always, but typically, the ones where you find the greatest resistance are the ones who know it's broken, but they just don't want to change. You know, there are some people who don't want to change no matter what, or they feel threatened that. They feel like that a new and improved process might take their place. You know, might replace them. And that's typically not the case. It's typically not the case at all, that they're not replaced by it. Their process is improved, and they find that they can be much more productive. But the the ones who are like I call them the great resistors, usually don't survive the process either. They are. They generally let themselves go,   Michael Hingson ** 42:01 if you will, more ego than working for the company.   Jan Southern ** 42:05 Yes, exactly, you know, it's kind of like my mom, you know, and it they own the process as it was. We used to laugh and call this person Louise, you know, Louise has said, Well, we've always done it that way. You know, that's probably the best reason 20 years in not to continue to do it same way.   Michael Hingson ** 42:34 We talked earlier about John Floyd and evolution. And that makes perfect sense. Exactly what's one of the most important things that you have to do to prepare to become involved in preparing for a process, improvement project? I think   Jan Southern ** 42:52 the most important thing there's two very important things. One is to understand their culture, to know how their culture is today, so that you know kind of which direction you need to take them, if they're not in a continuous improvement environment, then you need to lead them in that direction if they're already there and they just don't understand what needs to be done. There's two different scenarios, but the first thing you need to do is understand the culture. The second thing that you need to do, other than the culture, is understand their their business. You need to know what they do. Of course, you can't know from the outside how they do it, but you need to know that, for instance, if it's an we're working with a company that cleans oil tanks and removes toxins and foul lines from oil and gas industry. And so if you don't understand at all what they do, it's hard to help them through the processes that they need to go through. And so just learning, in general, what their technology, what their business is about. If you walk in there and haven't done that, you're just blowing smoke. In my mind, you know, I do a lot of research on the technologies that they use, or their company in general. I look at their website, I you know, look at their LinkedIn, their social media and so. And then we request information from them in advance of doing a project, so that we know what their org structure looks like. And I think those things are critical before you walk in the door to really understand their business in general.   Michael Hingson ** 44:53 Yeah, and that, by doing that, you also tend to. To gain a lot of credibility, because you come in and demonstrate that you do understand what they're doing, and people respond well to that, I would think   Jan Southern ** 45:10 they do. You know, one of our most interesting projects in my past was the electric company that I mentioned. There was an electric company in Burlington, Vermont that did their own electric generation. We've never looked at anything like that. We're a bank consultant, and so we learned all about how they generated energy with wood chips and the, you know, the different things. And, you know, there were many days that I was out watching the wood chips fall out of a train and into their buckets, where they then transferred them to a yard where they moved the stuff around all the time. So, you know, it was, it's very interesting what you learn along the way. But I had done my homework, and I knew kind of what they did and not how they did it in individual aspects of their own processes, but I understood their industry. And so it was, you do walk in with some credibility, otherwise they're looking at you like, well, what does this person know about my job?   Michael Hingson ** 46:20 And at the same time, have you ever been involved in a situation where you did learn about the company you you went in with some knowledge, you started working with the company, and you made a suggestion about changing a process or doing something that no one had thought of, and it just clicked, and everybody loved it when they thought about it,   Jan Southern ** 46:42 yes, yes, exactly. And probably that electric company was one of those such things. You know, when they hired us, they they told us. We said, We don't know anything about your business. And they said, Good, we don't want you to come in with any preconceived ideas. And so some of the recommendations we made to them. They were, it's kind of like an aha moment. You know, they look at you like, Oh my gosh. I've never thought of that, you know, the same I would say in in banking and in family businesses, you know, they just, they've never thought about doing things in a certain way.   Michael Hingson ** 47:20 Can you tell us a story about one of those times?   Jan Southern ** 47:24 Yes, I would say that if you're, if you're talking about, let's talk about something in the banking industry, where they are. I was working in a bank, and you, you go in, and this was in the days before we had all of the ways to store things electronically. And so they were having a difficult time in keeping all of their documents and in place and knowing when to, you know, put them in a destruction pile and when not to. And so I would say that they had an aha moment when I said, Okay, let's do this. Let's get a bunch of the little colored dots, and you have big dots and small dots. And I said, everything that you put away for 1990 for instance, then you put on a purple dot. And then for January, you have 12 different colors of the little dots that you put in the middle of them. And you can use those things to determine that everything that has a purple dot and little yellow.in the middle of that one, you know that that needs to be destructed. I think in that case, it was seven years, seven years from now, you know that you need to pull that one off the shelf and put it into the pile to be destructed. And they said, we've never thought of anything. It was like I had told him that, you know, the world was going to be struck, to be gone, to begin tomorrow. Yeah, it was so simple to me, but it was something that they had never, ever thought of, and it solved. They had something like five warehouses of stuff, most of which needed to have been destroyed years before, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 49:21 but still they weren't sure what, and so you gave them a mechanism to do that,   Jan Southern ** 49:27 right? Of course, that's all gone out the window today. You don't have to do all that manual stuff anymore. You're just, you know, I'd say another example of that was people who were when we began the system of digitizing the files, especially loan files in a bank. And this would hold true today as well, in that once you start on a project to digitize the files, there's a tendency to take the old. Files first and digitize those. Well, when you do that, before you get to the end of it, if you have a large project, you don't need those files anymore. So you know, our recommendation is start with your latest. You know, anything that needs to be archived, start with the newest, because by the time that you finish your project, some of those old files you won't even need to digitize, just shred them. Yeah, you know, it's, it's just little simple things like that that can make all the difference.   Michael Hingson ** 50:32 When should a family business start documenting processes? I think I know that's what I thought you'd say,   Jan Southern ** 50:40 yes, yes, that is something that is near and dear to my heart. Is that I would even recommend that you maybe do it before you open your doors, if potential is there, so that the day you open your business, you need to start with your documenting your processes, and you need to start on your succession planning. You know, those are the days that once you really start working, you're not going to have time. You know, you're going to be busy working every day. You're you're going to be busy servicing your customers, and that always gets pushed to the back when you start to document something, and so that's the time do it when you first open your doors.   Michael Hingson ** 51:29 So when we talk about processes, maybe it's a fair question to ask, maybe not. But what are we really talking about when we talk about processes and documenting processes? What are the processes?   Jan Southern ** 51:41 Well, the processes are the things that you do every day. Let's take as an example, just when you set up your your files within your SharePoint, or within your computer, if you don't use SharePoint, your Google files, how you set those up, a process could also be during your accounting, what's the process that you go through to get a invoice approved? You know, when the invoice comes in from the vendor, what do you do with it? You know, who has to approve it? Are there dollar amounts that you have to have approvals for? Or can some people just take in a smaller invoice and pay it without any any approvals? We like to see there be a process where it's approved before you get the invoice from the customer, where it's been approved at the time of the order. And that way it can be processed more more quickly on the backside, to just make sure that it says what the purchase order if you use purchase orders or see what your agreement was. So it's the it's the workflow. There's something that triggers an action, and then, once gets triggered, then what takes place? What's next, what's the next steps? And you just go through each one of the things that has to happen for that invoice to get paid, and the check or wire transfer, or or whatever you use as a payment methodology for it to go out the door. And so, you know what you what you do is you start, there's something that triggers it, and then there's a goal for the end, and then you fill in in the center,   Michael Hingson ** 53:38 and it's, it's, it's a fascinating I hate to use the word process to to listen to all of this, but it makes perfect sense that you should be documenting right from the outset about everything that you do, because it also means that you're establishing a plan so that everyone knows exactly what the expectations are and exactly what it is that needs to be done every step of the way,   Jan Southern ** 54:07 right and and one of the primary reasons for that is we can't anticipate life. You know, maybe our favorite person, Louise, is the only one who's ever done, let's say, you know, payroll processing, or something of that sort. And if something happens and Louise isn't able to come in tomorrow, who's going to do it? You know, without a map, a road map, as to the steps that need to be taken, how's that going to take place? And so that's that's really the critical importance. And when you're writing those processes and procedures, you need to make them so that anybody can walk in off the street, if necessary, and do what Louise was doing and have it done. Properly.   Michael Hingson ** 55:00 Of course, as we know, Louise is just a big complainer anyway. That's right, you said, yeah. Well, once you've made recommendations, and let's say they're put in place, then what do you do to continue supporting a business?   Jan Southern ** 55:20 We check in with them periodically, whatever is appropriate for them and and for the procedures that are there, we make sure that it's working for them, that they're being as prosperous as they want to be, and that our recommendations are working for them. Hopefully they'll allow us to come back in and and most do, and make sure that what we recommended is right and in is working for them, and if so, we make little tweaks with their approvals. And maybe new technology has come in, maybe they've installed a new system. And so then we help them to incorporate our prior recommendations into whatever new they have. And so we try to support them on an ongoing basis, if they're willing to do that, which we have many clients. I think Rob has clients he's been with for ever, since he opened his doors 15 years ago. So   Michael Hingson ** 56:19 of course, the other side of that is, I would assume sometimes you work with companies, you've helped them deal with processes and so on, and then you come back in and you know about technology that that they don't know. And I would assume then that you suggest that, and hopefully they see the value of listening to your wisdom.   Jan Southern ** 56:41 Absolutely, we find that a lot. We also if they've discovered a technology on their own, but need help with recommendations, as far as implementation, we can help them through that as well, and that's one of the reasons I'm taking this class in AI to be able to help our customers move into a realm where it's much more easily implemented if, if they already have the steps that we've put into place, you can feed that into an AI model, and it can make adjustments to what they're doing or make suggestions.   Michael Hingson ** 57:19 Is there any kind of a rule of thumb to to answer this question, how long does it take for a project to to be completed?   Jan Southern ** 57:26 You know, it takes, in all fairness, regardless of the size of the company, I would say that they need to allow six weeks minimum. That's for a small company with a small project, it can take as long as a year or two years, depending upon the number of departments and the number of people that you have to talk to about their processes. But to let's just take an example of a one, one single department in a company is looking at doing one of these processes, then they need to allow at least six weeks to for discovery, for mapping, for their people to become accustomed to the new processes and to make sure that the implementation has been tested and is working and and they're satisfied with everything that that is taking place. Six weeks is a very, very minimum, probably 90 days is a more fair assessment as to how long they should allow for everything to take place.   Michael Hingson ** 58:39 Do you find that, if you are successful with, say, a larger company, when you go in and work with one department and you're able to demonstrate success improvements, or whatever it is that that you define as being successful, that then other departments want to use your services as well?   Jan Southern ** 59:00 Yes, yes, we do. That's a very good point. Is that once you've helped them to help themselves, if you will, once you've helped them through that process, then they recognize the value of that, and we'll move on to another division or another department to do the same thing.   Michael Hingson ** 59:21 Word of mouth counts for a lot,   Jan Southern ** 59:24 doesn't it? Though, I'd say 90% of our business at Ferguson and company comes through referrals. They refer either through a center of influence or a current client who's been very satisfied with the work that we've done for them, and they tell their friends and networking people that you know. Here's somebody that you should use if you're considering this type of a project.   Michael Hingson ** 59:48 Well, if people want to reach out to you and maybe explore using your services in Ferguson services, how do they do that?   Jan Southern ** 59:55 They contact they can. If they want to contact me directly, it's Jan. J, a n, at Ferguson dash alliance.com and that's F, E, R, G, U, S, O, N, Dash alliance.com and they can go to our website, which is the same, which is Ferguson dash alliance.com One thing that's very, very good about our our website is, there's a page that's called resources, and there's a lot of free advice, if you will. There's a lot of materials there that are available to family owned businesses, specifically, but any business could probably benefit from that. And so those are free for you to be able to access and look at, and there's a lot of blog information, free eBook out there, and so that's the best way to reach Ferguson Alliance.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:52 Well, cool. Well, I hope people will take all of this to heart. You certainly offered a lot of interesting and I would say, very relevant ideas and thoughts about dealing with processes and the importance of having processes. For several years at a company, my wife was in charge of document control and and not only doc control, but also keeping things secure. Of course, having the sense of humor that I have, I pointed out nobody else around the company knew how to read Braille, so what they should really do is put all the documents in Braille, then they'd be protected, but nobody. I was very disappointed. Good idea   Speaker 2 ** 1:01:36 that is good idea that'll keep them safe from everybody. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:39 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank to thank all of you for listening today. We've been doing this an hour. How much fun. It is fun. Well, I appreciate it, and love to hear from all of you about today's episode. Please feel free to reach out to me. You can email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com or go to our podcast page. Michael hingson, M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, n.com/podcast, but wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating. We value your thoughts and your opinions, and I hope that you'll tell other people about the podcasts as well. This has been an interesting one, and we try to make them all kind of fun and interesting, so please tell others about it. And if anyone out there listening knows of anyone who ought to be a guest, Jan, including you, then please feel free to introduce us to anyone who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset. Because I believe everyone has a story to tell, and I want to get as many people to have the opportunity to tell their stories as we can. So I hope that you'll all do that and give us reviews and and stick with us. But Jan, again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun.   Jan Southern ** 1:02:51 It has been a lot of fun, and I certainly thank you for inviting me.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:00 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

What does it take to keep your voice—and your purpose—strong through every season of life? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with my friend Bill Ratner, one of Hollywood's most recognized voice actors, best known as Flint from GI Joe. Bill's voice has carried him through radio, animation, and narration, but what stands out most is how he's used that same voice to serve others through storytelling, teaching, and grief counseling. Together, we explore the heart behind his work—from bringing animated heroes to life to standing on The Moth stage and helping people find healing through poetry. Bill shares lessons from his own journey, including losing both parents early, finding family in unexpected places, and discovering how creative expression can rebuild what life breaks down. We also reflect on 9/11, preparedness, and the quiet confidence that comes from trusting your training—whether you're a first responder, a performer, or just navigating the unknown. This conversation isn't just about performance; it's about presence. It's about using your story, your craft, and your compassion to keep moving forward—unstoppable, one voice at a time. Highlights: 00:31 – Hear the Flint voice and what it takes to bring animated characters to life. 06:57 – Learn why an uneven college path still led to a lifelong acting career. 11:50 – Understand how GI Joe became a team and a toy phenomenon that shaped culture. 15:58 – See how comics and cartoons boosted classroom literacy when used well. 17:06 – Pick up simple ways parents can spark reading through shared stories. 19:29 – Discover how early, honest conversations about death can model resilience. 24:09 – Learn to critique ads and media like a pro to sharpen your own performance. 36:19 – Follow the pivot from radio to voiceover and why specialization pays. 47:48 – Hear practical editing approaches and accessible tools that keep shows tight. 49:38 – Learn how The Moth builds storytelling chops through timed, judged practice. 55:21 – See how poetry—and poetry therapy—support grief work with students. 59:39 – Take notes on memoir writing, emotional management, and one-person shows. About the Guest: Bill Ratner is one of America's best known voice actors and author of poetry collections Lamenting While Doing Laps in the Lake (Slow Lightning Lit 2024,) Fear of Fish (Alien Buddha Press 2021,) To Decorate a Casket (Finishing Line Press 2021,) and the non-fiction book Parenting For The Digital Age: The Truth Behind Media's Effect On Children and What To Do About It (Familius Books 2014.) He is a 9-time winner of the Moth StorySLAM, 2-time winner of Best of The Hollywood Fringe Extension Award for Solo Performance, Best of the Net Poetry Nominee 2023 (Lascaux Review,) and New Millennium "America One Year From Now" Writing Award Finalist. His writing appears in Best Small Fictions 2021 (Sonder Press,) Missouri Review (audio,) Baltimore Review, Chiron Review, Feminine Collective, and other journals. He is the voice of "Flint" in the TV cartoon G.I. Joe, "Donnell Udina" in the computer game Mass Effect, the voice of Air Disasters on Smithsonian Channel, NewsNation, and network TV affiliates across the country. He is a committee chair for his union, SAG-AFTRA, teaches Voiceovers for SAG-AFTRA Foundation, Media Awareness for Los Angeles Unified School District, and is a trained grief counsellor. Member: Actors Equity Association, Screen Actors Guild-AFTRA, National Storytelling Network • https://billratner.com • @billratner Ways to connect with Bill: https://soundcloud.com/bill-ratner https://www.instagram.com/billratner/ https://twitter.com/billratner https://www.threads.net/@billratner https://billratner.tumblr.com https://www.youtube.com/@billratner/videos https://www.facebook.com/billratner.voiceover.author https://bsky.app/profile/bilorat.bsky.social About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well on a gracious hello to you, wherever you may be, I am your host. Mike hingson, and you are listening to unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to have a voice actor, person, Bill Ratner, who you want to know who Bill Radnor is, go back and watch the old GI Joe cartoons and listen to the voice of Flint.   Bill Ratner ** 01:42 All right. Lady Jay, you better get your battle gear on, because Cobra is on their way. And I can't bring up the Lacher threat weapon system. We got to get out of here. Yo, Joe,   Michael Hingson ** 01:52 there you go. I rest my case Well, Bill, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Bill Ratner ** 02:00 We can't rest now. Michael, we've just begun. No, we've just begun.   Michael Hingson ** 02:04 We got to keep going here. Well, I'm really glad that you're here. Bill is another person who we inveigled to get on unstoppable mindset with the help of Walden Hughes. And so that means we can talk about Walden all we want today. Bill just saying, oh goodness. And I got a lot to say. Let me tell you perfect, perfect. Bring it on. So we are really grateful to Walden, although I hope he's not listening. We don't want to give him a big head. But no, seriously, we're really grateful. Ah, good point.   Bill Ratner ** 02:38 But his posture, oddly enough, is perfect.   Michael Hingson ** 02:40 Well, there you go. What do you do? He practiced. Well, anyway, we're glad you're here. Tell us about the early bill, growing up and all that stuff. It's always fun to start a good beginning.   Bill Ratner ** 02:54 Well, I was a very lucky little boy. I was born in Des Moines, Iowa in 1947 to two lovely people, professionals, both with master's degree out at University of Chicago. My mother was a social worker. My father had an MBA in business. He was managing editor of Better Homes and Gardens magazine. So I had the joy of living in a better home and living in a garden.   Michael Hingson ** 03:21 My mother. How long were you in Des Moines?   Bill Ratner ** 03:24 Five and a half years left before my sixth birthday. My dad got a fancy job at an ad agency in Minneapolis, and had a big brother named Pete and big handsome, curly haired boy with green eyes. And moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota, and was was brought up there.   Michael Hingson ** 03:45 Wow. So you went to school there and and chased the girls and all that stuff.   Bill Ratner ** 03:54 I went to school there at Blake School for Boys in Hopkins, Minnesota. Couldn't chase the girls day school, but the girls we are allowed to dance with certainly not chase. Michael was at woodhue dancing school, the Northrop girls from Northrop girls school and the Blake boys were put together in eighth grade and taught the Cha Cha Cha, the waltz, the Charleston, and we danced together, and the girls wore white gloves, and we sniffed their perfume, and we all learned how to be lovers when we were 45   Michael Hingson ** 04:37 There you are. Well, as long as you learned at some point, that's a good start.   Bill Ratner ** 04:44 It's a weird generation. Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 04:46 I've been to Des Moines before. I was born in Chicago, but moved out to California when I was five, but I did some work with the National Federation of the Blind in the mid 19. 1970s 1976 into 1978 so spent time at the Iowa Commission for the Blind in Des Moines, which became a top agency for the Blind in well, the late 50s into the to the 60s and so on. So   Bill Ratner ** 05:15 both my parents are from Chicago. My father from the south side of Chicago, 44th and Kenzie, which was a Irish, Polish, Italian, Jewish, Ukrainian neighborhood. And my mother from Glencoe, which was a middle class suburb above Northwestern University in Evanston.   Michael Hingson ** 05:34 I Where were you born? 57th and union, north, south side, no, South   Bill Ratner ** 05:42 57th union is that? Is that west of Kenzie?   Michael Hingson ** 05:46 You know, I don't remember the geography well enough to know, but I know that it was, I think, Mount Sinai Hospital where I was born. But it was, it's, it's, it's a pretty tough neighborhood today. So I understand,   Bill Ratner ** 06:00 yeah, yeah, my it was tough, then it's tough now,   Michael Hingson ** 06:03 yeah, I think it's tougher, supposedly, than it was. But we lived there for five years, and then we we moved to California, and I remember some things about Chicago. I remember walking down to the local candy store most days, and had no problem doing that. My parents were told they should shut me away at a home somewhere, because no blind child could ever grow up to amount to anything. And my parents said, You guys are you're totally wrong. And they brought me up with that attitude. So, you   Bill Ratner ** 06:32 know who said that the school says school so that   Michael Hingson ** 06:35 doctors doctors when they discovered I was blind with the   Bill Ratner ** 06:38 kid, goodness gracious, horrified.   Michael Hingson ** 06:44 Well, my parents said absolutely not, and they brought me up, and they actually worked with other parents of premature kids who became blind, and when kindergarten started in for us in in the age of four, they actually had a special kindergarten class for blind kids at the Perry School, which is where I went. And so I did that for a year, learn braille and some other things. Then we moved to California, but yeah, and I go back to Chicago every so often. And when I do nowadays, they I one of my favorite places to migrate in Chicago is Garrett Popcorn.   Bill Ratner ** 07:21 Ah, yes, with caramel corn, regular corn, the   Michael Hingson ** 07:25 Chicago blend, which is a mixture, yeah, the Chicago blend is cheese corn, well, as it is with caramel corn, and they put much other mozzarella on it as well. It's really good.   Bill Ratner ** 07:39 Yeah, so we're on the air. Michael, what do you call your what do you call your program? Here I am your new friend, and I can't even announce your program because I don't know   Michael Hingson ** 07:48 the name, unstoppable mindset. This   Bill Ratner ** 07:51 is unstoppable mindset.   Michael Hingson ** 07:56 We're back. Well, we're back already. We're fast. So you, you, you moved off elsewhere, out of Des Moines and all that. And where did you go to college?   Bill Ratner ** 08:09 Well, this is like, why did you this is, this is a bit like talking about the Vietnam War. Looking back on my college career is like looking back on the Vietnam War series, a series of delusions and defeats. By the time I the time i for college, by the time I was applying for college, I was an orphan, orphan, having been born to fabulous parents who died too young of natural causes. So my grades in high school were my mediocre. I couldn't get into the Ivy Leagues. I got into the big 10 schools. My stepmother said, you're going to Michigan State in East Lansing because your cousin Eddie became a successful realtor. And Michigan State was known as mu u it was the most successful, largest agriculture college and university in the country. Kids from South Asia, China, Northern Europe, Southern Europe, South America all over the world came to Michigan State to study agricultural sciences, children of rich farmers all over the world and middle class farmers all over the world, and a huge police science department. Part of the campus was fenced off, and the young cadets, 1819, 20 years old, would practice on the rest of the student body, uniformed with hats and all right, excuse me, young man, we're just going to get some pizza at eight o'clock on Friday night. Stand against your car. Hands in your car. I said, Are you guys practicing again? Shut up and spread your legs. So that was that was Michigan State, and even though both my parents had master's degrees, I just found all the diversions available in the 1960s to be too interesting, and was not invited. Return after my sophomore year, and in order to flunk out of a big 10 University, and they're fine universities, all of them, you have to be either really determined or not so smart, not really capable of doing that level of study in undergraduate school. And I'd like to think that I was determined. I used to show up for my exams with a little blue book, and the only thing I would write is due to lack of knowledge, I am unable to complete this exam, sign Bill ranter and get up early and hand it in and go off. And so what was, what was left for a young man like that was the theater I'd seen the great Zero Mostel when I was 14 years old and on stage live, he looked just like my father, and he was funny, and if I Were a rich man, and that's the grade zero must tell. Yeah, and it took about five, no, it took about six, seven years to percolate inside my bread and my brain. In high school, I didn't want to do theater. The cheerleaders and guys who I had didn't happen to be friends with or doing theater. I took my girlfriends to see plays, but when I was 21 I started acting, and I've been an actor ever since. I'm a committee chair on the screen actors guild in Hollywood and Screen Actors Guild AFTRA, and work as a voice actor and collect my pensions and God bless the union.   Michael Hingson ** 11:44 Well, hey, as long as it works and you're making progress, you know you're still with it, right?   Bill Ratner ** 11:53 That's the that's the point. There's no accounting for taste in my business. Michael, you work for a few different broadcast entities at my age. And it's, you know, it's younger people. It's 18 to 3418 years to 34 years old is the ideal demographic for advertisers, Ford, Motor Company, Dove soap, Betty, Crocker, cake mixes and cereals, every conceivable product that sold online or sold on television and radio. This is my this is my meat, and I don't work for religion. However, if a religious organization calls, I call and say, I I'm not, not qualified or not have my divinity degree in order to sell your church to the public?   Michael Hingson ** 12:46 Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I can understand that. But you, you obviously do a lot, and as we talked about, you were Flint and GI Joe, which is kind of cool.   Bill Ratner ** 13:01 Flynn GI Joe was very cool. Hasbro Corporation, which was based in Providence, Rhode Island, had a huge success with GI Joe, the figure. The figure was about 11 and a half inches tall, like a Barbie, and was at first, was introduced to the public after the Korean War. There is a comic book that was that was also published about GI Joe. He was an individual figure. He was a figure, a sort of mythic cartoon figure during World War Two, GI Joe, generic American soldier, fighting man and but the Vietnam war dragged on for a long time, and the American buying public or buying kids toys got tired of GI Joe, got tired of a military figure in their household and stopped buying. And when Nixon ended the Vietnam War, or allotted to finish in 1974 Hasbro was in the tank. It's got its stock was cheap, and executives are getting nervous. And then came the Great George Lucas in Star Wars, who shrank all these action figures down from 11 and a half inches to three and a half inches, and went to China and had Chinese game and toy makers make Star Wars toys, and began to earn billions and billions dollars. And so Hasbro said, let's turn GI Joe into into a team. And the team began with flint and Lady J and Scarlett and Duke and Destro and cover commander, and grew to 85 different characters, because Hasbro and the toy maker partners could create 85 different sets of toys and action figures. So I was actor in this show and had a good time, and also a purveyor of a billion dollar industry of American toys. And the good news about these toys is I was at a conference where we signed autographs the voice actors, and we have supper with fans and so on. And I was sitting next to a 30 year old kid and his parents. And this kid was so knowledgeable about pop culture and every conceivable children's show and animated show that had ever been on the screen or on television. I turned to his mother and sort of being a wise acre, said, So ma'am, how do you feel about your 30 year old still playing with GI Joe action figures? And she said, Well, he and I both teach English in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania school system, and last year, the literacy level of my ninth graders was 50% 50% of those kids could not read in ninth grade. So I asked the principal if I could borrow my son's GI Joe, action figures, comic books and VHS tapes, recordings of the shows from TV. And he said, Sure, whatever you want to try. And so she did, and she played the video tapes, and these kids were thrilled. They'd never seen a GI Joe cartoon in class before. Passed out the comic books, let him read comics. And then she said, Okay, you guys. And passed out notebooks and pens and pencils, and said, I want you guys to make up some some shows, some GI Joe shows. And so they said, Yeah, we're ready. All right, Cobra, you better get into the barber shop, because the barber bill is no longer there and the fire engines are in the way. And wait a minute, there's a dog in the street. And so they're making this up, using their imagination, doing their schoolwork, by coming up with scenarios, imaginary fam fan fiction for GI Joe and she raised the literacy level in her classroom by 50% that year, by the end of that year, so, so that was the only story that I've ever heard about the sort of the efficacy of GI Joe, other than, you know, kids play with them. Do they? Are they shooting each other all the time? I certainly hope not. I hope not. Are they using the action figures? Do they strip their guns off and put them in a little, you know, stub over by the side and and have them do physical battle with each other, or have them hump the woods, or have them climb the stairs, or have them search the trees. Who knows what kids do? Same with same with girls and and Barbies. Barbie has been a source of fun and creativity for lots of girls, and the source of of worry and bother to a lot of parents as   Michael Hingson ** 17:54 well. Well, at the same time, though, when kids start to react and relate to some of these things. It's, it's pretty cool. I mean, look what's happened with the whole Harry Potter movement and craze. Harry Potter has probably done more in the last 20 or 25 years to promote reading for kids than most anything else, and   Bill Ratner ** 18:17 that's because it's such a good series of books. I read them to my daughters, yeah. And the quality of writing. She was a brilliant writer, not only just the stories and the storytelling, which is fun to watch in the movies, and you know, it's great for a parent to read. If there are any parents listening, I don't care how old your kids are. I don't care if they're 15. Offer to read to them. The 15 year old might, of course, say mom, but anybody younger than that might say either, all right, fine, which is, which means you better do it or read, read a book. To me, sure, it's fun for the parent, fun for the kid, and it makes the child a completely different kind of thinker and worker and earner.   Michael Hingson ** 19:05 Well, also the people who they got to read the books for the recordings Stephen Fry and in the US here, Jim Dale did such an incredible job as well. I've, I've read the whole Harry Potter series more than once, because I just enjoy them, and I enjoy listening to the the voices. They do such a good job. Yeah. And of course, for me, one of the interesting stories that I know about Jim Dale reading Harry Potter was since it was published by Scholastic he was actually scheduled to do a reading from one of the Harry from the new Harry Potter book that was coming out in 2001 on September 11, he was going to be at Scholastic reading. And of course, that didn't happen because of of everything that did occur. So I don't know whether I'm. I'm assuming at some point a little bit later, he did, but still he was scheduled to be there and read. But it they are there. They've done so much to help promote reading, and a lot of those kinds of cartoons and so on. Have done some of that, which is, which is pretty good. So it's good to, you know, to see that continue to happen. Well, so you've written several books on poetry and so on, and I know that you you've mentioned more than once grief and loss. How come those words keep coming up?   Bill Ratner ** 20:40 Well, I had an unusual childhood. Again. I mentioned earlier how, what a lucky kid I was. My parents were happy, educated, good people, not abusers. You know, I don't have a I don't have horror stories to tell about my mother or my father, until my mother grew sick with breast cancer and and it took about a year and a half or two years to die when I was seven years old. The good news is, because she was a sensitive, educated social worker, as she was actually dying, she arranged a death counseling session with me and my older brother and the Unitarian minister who was also a death counselor, and whom she was seeing to talk about, you know, what it was like to be dying of breast cancer with two young kids. And at this session, which was sort of surprised me, I was second grade, came home from school. In the living room was my mother and my brother looking a little nervous, and Dr Carl storm from the Unitarian Church, and she said, you know, Dr storm from church, but he's also my therapist. And we talk about my illness and how I feel, and we talk about how much I love you boys, and talk about how I worry about Daddy. And this is what one does when one is in crisis. That was a moment that was not traumatic for me. It's a moment I recalled hundreds of times, and one that has been a guiding light through my life. My mother's death was very difficult for my older brother, who was 13 who grew up in World War Two without without my father, it was just him and my mother when he was off in the Pacific fighting in World War Two. And then I was born after the war. And the loss of a mother in a family is like the bottom dropping out of a family. But luckily, my dad met a woman he worked with a highly placed advertising executive, which was unusual for a female in the 1950s and she became our stepmother a year later, and we had some very lovely, warm family years with her extended family and our extended family and all of us together until my brother got sick, came down with kidney disease a couple of years before kidney dialysis was invented, and a couple of years before kidney transplants were done, died at 19. Had been the captain of the swimming team at our high school, but did a year in college out in California and died on Halloween of 1960 my father was 51 years old. His eldest son had died. He had lost his wife six years earlier. He was working too hard in the advertising industry, successful man and dropped out of a heart attack 14th birthday. Gosh, I found him unconscious on the floor of our master bathroom in our house. So my life changed. I My life has taught me many, many things. It's taught me how the defense system works in trauma. It's taught me the resilience of a child. It's taught me the kindness of strangers. It's taught me the sadness of loss.   Michael Hingson ** 24:09 Well, you, you seem to come through all of it pretty well. Well, thank you. A question behind that, just an observation, but, but you do seem to, you know, obviously, cope with all of it and do pretty well. So you, you've always liked to be involved in acting and so on. How did you actually end up deciding to be a voice actor?   Bill Ratner ** 24:39 Well, my dad, after he was managing editor of Better Homes and Gardens magazine in Des Moines for Meredith publishing, got offered a fancy job as executive vice president of the flower and mix division for Campbell within advertising and later at General Mills Corporation. From Betty Crocker brand, and would bring me to work all the time, and would sit with me, and we'd watch the wonderful old westerns that were on prime time television, rawhide and Gunsmoke and the Virginian and sure   Michael Hingson ** 25:15 and all those. Yeah, during   Bill Ratner ** 25:17 the commercials, my father would make fun of the commercials. Oh, look at that guy. And number one, son, that's lousy acting. Number two, listen to that copy. It's the dumbest ad copy I've ever seen. The jingles and and then he would say, No, that's a good commercial, right there. And he wasn't always negative. He would he was just a good critic of advertising. So at a very young age, starting, you know, when we watch television, I think the first television ever, he bought us when I was five years old, I was around one of the most educated, active, funny, animated television critics I could hope to have in my life as a 56789, 1011, 12 year old. And so when I was 12, I became one of the founding members of the Brotherhood of radio stations with my friends John Waterhouse and John Barstow and Steve gray and Bill Connors in South Minneapolis. I named my five watt night kit am transmitter after my sixth grade teacher, Bob close this is wclo stereo radio. And when I was in sixth grade, I built myself a switch box, and I had a turntable and I had an intercom, and I wired my house for sound, as did all the other boys in the in the B, O, R, S, and that's brotherhood of radio stations. And we were guests on each other's shows, and we were obsessed, and we would go to the shopping malls whenever a local DJ was making an appearance and torture him and ask him dumb questions and listen obsessively to American am radio. And at the time for am radio, not FM like today, or internet on your little radio tuner, all the big old grandma and grandpa radios, the wooden ones, were AM, for amplitude modulated. You could get stations at night, once the sun went down and the later it got, the ionosphere would lift and the am radio signals would bounce higher and farther. And in Minneapolis, at age six and seven, I was able to to listen to stations out of Mexico and Texas and Chicago, and was absolutely fascinated with with what was being put out. And I would, I would switch my brother when I was about eight years old, gave me a transistor radio, which I hid under my bed covers. And at night, would turn on and listen for, who knows, hours at a time, and just tuning the dial and tuning the dial from country to rock and roll to hit parade to news to commercials to to agric agriculture reports to cow crossings in Kansas and grain harvesting and cheese making in Wisconsin, and on and on and on that made up the great medium of radio that was handing its power and its business over to television, just as I was growing As a child. Fast, fascinating transition   Michael Hingson ** 28:18 and well, but as it was transitioning, how did that affect you?   Bill Ratner ** 28:26 It made television the romantic, exciting, dynamic medium. It made radio seem a little limited and antiquated, and although I listened for environment and wasn't able to drag a television set under my covers. Yeah, and television became memorable with with everything from actual world war two battle footage being shown because there wasn't enough programming to 1930s Warner Brothers gangster movies with James Cagney, Edward G   Michael Hingson ** 29:01 Robinson and yeah   Bill Ratner ** 29:02 to all the sitcoms, Leave It to Beaver and television cartoons and on and on and on. And the most memorable elements to me were the personalities, and some of whom were invisible. Five years old, I was watching a Kids program after school, after kindergarten. We'll be back with more funny puppets, marionettes after this message and the first words that came on from an invisible voice of this D baritone voice, this commercial message will be 60 seconds long, Chrysler Dodge for 1954 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I watched hypnotized, hypnotized as a 1953 dodge drove across the screen with a happy family of four waving out the window. And at the end of the commercial, I ran into the kitchen said, Mom, mom, I know what a minute. Is, and it was said, it had suddenly come into my brain in one of those very rare and memorable moments in a person's life where your brain actually speaks to you in its own private language and says, Here is something very new and very true, that 60 seconds is in fact a minute. When someone says, See you in five minutes, they mean five times that, five times as long as that. Chrysler commercial, five times 60. That's 300 seconds. And she said, Did you learn it that that on T in kindergarten? And I said, No, I learned it from kangaroo Bob on TV, his announcer, oh, kangaroo Bob, no, but this guy was invisible. And so at five years of age, I was aware of the existence of the practice of the sound, of the magic of the seemingly unlimited access to facts, figures, products, brand names that these voices had and would say on the air in This sort of majestic, patriarchal way,   Michael Hingson ** 31:21 and just think 20 years later, then you had James Earl Jones,   Bill Ratner ** 31:26 the great dame. James Earl Jones, father was a star on stage at that time the 1950s James Earl Jones came of age in the 60s and became Broadway and off Broadway star.   Michael Hingson ** 31:38 I got to see him in Othello. He was playing Othello. What a powerful performance. It was   Bill Ratner ** 31:43 wonderful performer. Yeah, yeah. I got to see him as Big Daddy in Canada, Hot Tin Roof, ah, live and in person, he got front row seats for me and my family.   Michael Hingson ** 31:53 Yeah, we weren't in the front row, but we saw it. We saw it on on Broadway,   Bill Ratner ** 31:58 the closest I ever got to James Earl Jones. He and I had the same voice over agent, woman named Rita vinari of southern Barth and benare company. And I came into the agency to audition for Doritos, and I hear this magnificent voice coming from behind a closed voiceover booth, saying, with a with a Spanish accent, Doritos. I thought that's James Earl Jones. Why is he saying burritos? And he came out, and he bowed to me, nodded and smiled, and I said, hello and and the agent probably in the booth and shut the door. And she said, I said, that was James Earl Jones. What a voice. What she said, Oh, he's such a nice man. And she said, but I couldn't. I was too embarrassed. I was too afraid to stop him from saying, Doritos. And it turns out he didn't get the gig. So it is some other voice actor got it because he didn't say, had he said Doritos with the agent froze it froze up. That was as close as I ever got to did you get the gig? Oh goodness no,   Michael Hingson ** 33:01 no, you didn't, huh? Oh, well, well, yeah. I mean, it was a very, it was, it was wonderful. It was James Earl Jones and Christopher Plummer played Iago. Oh, goodness, oh, I know. What a what a combination. Well, so you, you did a lot of voiceover stuff. What did you do regarding radio moving forward? Or did you just go completely out of that and you were in TV? Or did you have any opportunity   Bill Ratner ** 33:33 for me to go back at age 15, my brother and father, who were big supporters of my radio. My dad would read my W, C, l, o, newsletter and need an initial, an excellent journalism son and my brother would bring his teenage friends up. He'd play the elderly brothers, man, you got an Elvis record, and I did. And you know, they were, they were big supporters for me as a 13 year old, but when I turned 14, and had lost my brother and my father, I lost my enthusiasm and put all of my radio equipment in a box intended to play with it later. Never, ever, ever did again. And when I was about 30 years old and I'd done years of acting in the theater, having a great time doing fun plays and small theaters in Minneapolis and South Dakota and and Oakland, California and San Francisco. I needed money, so I looked in the want ads and saw a job for telephone sales, and I thought, Well, I used to love the telephone. I used to make phony phone calls to people all the time. Used to call funeral homes. Hi Carson, funeral I help you. Yes, I'm calling to tell you that you have a you have a dark green slate tile. Roof, isn't that correct? Yes. Well, there's, there's a corpse on your roof. Lady for goodness sake, bring it down and we laugh and we record it and and so I thought, Well, gee, I used to have a lot of fun with the phone. And so I called the number of telephone sales and got hired to sell magazine subscriptions and dinner tickets to Union dinners and all kinds of things. And then I saw a new job at a radio station, suburban radio station out in Walnut Creek, California, a lovely Metro BART train ride. And so I got on the BART train, rode out there and walked in for the interview, and was told I was going to be selling small advertising packages on radio for the station on the phone. And so I called barber shops and beauty shops and gas stations in the area, and one guy picked up the phone and said, Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you on the radio right now? And I said, No, I'm just I'm in the sales room. Well, maybe you should be. And he slams the phone on me. He didn't want to talk to me anymore. It wasn't interested in buying advertising. I thought, gee. And I told somebody at the station, and they said, Well, you want to be in the radio? And he went, Yeah, I was on the radio when I was 13. And it just so happened that an older fellow was retiring from the 10am to 2pm slot. K I S King, kiss 99 and KD FM, Pittsburgh, California. And it was a beautiful music station. It was a music station. Remember, old enough will remember music that used to play in elevators that was like violin music, the Percy faith orchestra playing a Rolling Stone song here in the elevator. Yes, well, that's exactly what we played. And it would have been harder to get a job at the local rock stations because, you know, they were popular places. And so I applied for the job, and   Michael Hingson ** 37:06 could have lost your voice a lot sooner, and it would have been a lot harder if you had had to do Wolfman Jack. But that's another story.   Bill Ratner ** 37:13 Yeah, I used to listen to Wolf Man Jack. I worked in a studio in Hollywood. He became a studio. Yeah, big time.   Michael Hingson ** 37:22 Anyway, so you you got to work at the muzack station, got   Bill Ratner ** 37:27 to work at the muzack station, and I was moving to Los Angeles to go to a bigger market, to attempt to penetrate a bigger broadcast market. And one of the sales guys, a very nice guy named Ralph pizzella said, Well, when you get to La you should study with a friend of mine down to pie Troy, he teaches voiceovers. I said, What are voice overs? He said, You know that CVS Pharmacy commercial just carted up and did 75 tags, available in San Fernando, available in San Clemente, available in Los Angeles, available in Pasadena. And I said, Yeah. He said, Well, you didn't get paid any extra. You got paid your $165 a week. The guy who did that commercial for the ad agency got paid probably 300 bucks, plus extra for the tags, that's voiceovers. And I thought, why? There's an idea, what a concept. So he gave me the name and number of old friend acquaintance of his who he'd known in radio, named Don DiPietro, alias Johnny rabbit, who worked for the Dick Clark organization, had a big rock and roll station there. He'd come to LA was doing voiceovers and teaching voiceover classes in a little second story storefront out of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles. So I signed up for his class, and he was an experienced guy, and he liked me, and we all had fun, and I realized I was beginning to study like an actor at 1818, who goes to New York or goes to Los Angeles or Chicago or Atlanta or St Louis to act in the big theaters, and starts acting classes and realizes, oh my goodness, these people are truly professionals. I don't know how to do what they do. And so for six years, I took voice over classes, probably 4050, nights a year, and from disc jockeys, from ex show hosts, from actors, from animated cartoon voices, and put enough time in to get a degree in neurology in medical school. And worked my way up in radio in Los Angeles and had a morning show, a lovely show with a wonderful news man named Phil Reed, and we talked about things and reviewed movies and and played a lot of music. And then I realized, wait a minute, I'm earning three times the money in voiceovers as I am on the radio, and I have to get up at 430 in the morning to be on the radio. Uh, and a wonderful guy who was Johnny Carson's staff announcer named Jack angel said, You're not still on radio, are you? And I said, Well, yeah, I'm working in the morning. And Ka big, get out of there. Man, quit. Quit. And I thought, well, how can I quit? I've always wanted to be a radio announcer. And then there was another wonderful guy on the old am station, kmpc, sweet Dick Whittington. Whittington, right? And he said at a seminar that I went to at a union voice over training class, when you wake up at four in the morning and you swing your legs over the bed and your shoes hit the floor, and you put your head in your hands, and you say to yourself, I don't want to do this anymore. That's when you quit radio. Well, that hadn't happened to me. I was just getting up early to write some comedy segments and on and on and on, and then I was driving around town all day doing auditions and rented an ex girlfriend's second bedroom so that I could nap by myself during the day, when I had an hour in and I would as I would fall asleep, I'd picture myself every single day I'm in a dark voiceover studio, a microphone Is before me, a music stand is before the microphone, and on it is a piece of paper with advertising copy on it. On the other side of the large piece of glass of the recording booth are three individuals, my employers, I begin to read, and somehow the text leaps off the page, streams into my eyes, letter for letter, word for word, into a part of my back brain that I don't understand and can't describe. It is processed in my semi conscious mind with the help of voice over training and hope and faith, and comes out my mouth, goes into the microphone, is recorded in the digital recorder, and those three men, like little monkeys, lean forward and say, Wow, how do you do that? That was my daily creative visualization. Michael, that was my daily fantasy. And I had learned that from from Dale Carnegie, and I had learned that from Olympic athletes on NBC TV in the 60s and 70s, when the announcer would say, this young man you're seeing practicing his high jump is actually standing there. He's standing stationary, and the bouncing of the head is he's actually rehearsing in his mind running and running and leaping over the seven feet two inch bar and falling into the sawdust. And now he's doing it again, and you could just barely see the man nodding his head on camera at the exact rhythm that he would be running the 25 yards toward the high bar and leaping, and he raised his head up during the imaginary lead that he was visualizing, and then he actually jumped the seven foot two inches. That's how I learned about creative visualization from NBC sports on TV.   Michael Hingson ** 43:23 Channel Four in Los Angeles. There you go. Well, so you you broke into voice over, and that's what you did.   Bill Ratner ** 43:38 That's what I did, darn it, I ain't stopping now, there's a wonderful old actor named Bill Irwin. There two Bill Irwin's one is a younger actor in his 50s or 60s, a brilliant actor from Broadway to film and TV. There's an older William Irwin. They also named Bill Irwin, who's probably in his 90s now. And I went to a premiere of a film, and he was always showing up in these films as The senile stock broker who answers the phone upside down, or the senile board member who always asks inappropriate questions. And I went up to him and I said, you know, I see you in everything, man. I'm 85 years old. Some friends and associates of mine tell me I should slow down. I only got cast in movies and TV when I was 65 I ain't slowing down. If I tried to slow down at 85 I'd have to stop That's my philosophy. My hero is the great Don Pardo, the late great   Michael Hingson ** 44:42 for Saturday Night Live and Jeopardy   Bill Ratner ** 44:45 lives starring Bill Murray, Gilder Radner, and   Michael Hingson ** 44:49 he died for Jeopardy before that,   Bill Ratner ** 44:52 yeah, died at 92 with I picture him, whether it probably not, with a microphone and. His hand in his in his soundproof booth, in his in his garage, and I believe he lived in Arizona, although the show was aired and taped in New York, New York, right where he worked for for decades as a successful announcer. So that's the story.   Michael Hingson ** 45:16 Michael. Well, you know, I miss, very frankly, some of the the the days of radio back in the 60s and 70s and so on. We had, in LA what you mentioned, Dick Whittington, Dick whittinghill on kmpc, Gary Owens, you know, so many people who were such wonderful announcers and doing some wonderful things, and radio just isn't the same anymore. It's gone. It's   Bill Ratner ** 45:47 gone to Tiktok and YouTube. And the truth is, I'm not gonna whine about Tiktok or YouTube, because some of the most creative moments on camera are being done on Tiktok and YouTube by young quote influencers who hire themselves out to advertisers, everything from lipstick. You know,   Speaker 1 ** 46:09 when I went to a party last night was just wild and but this makeup look, watch me apply this lip remover and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, no, I have no lip.   Bill Ratner ** 46:20 You know, these are the people with the voices. These are the new voices. And then, of course, the faces. And so I would really advise before, before people who, in fact, use the internet. If you use the internet, you can't complain if you use the internet, if you go to Facebook or Instagram, or you get collect your email or Google, this or that, which most of us do, it's handy. You can't complain about tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. You can't complain about tick tock or YouTube, because it's what the younger generation is using, and it's what the younger generation advertisers and advertising executives and creators and musicians and actors are using to parade before us, as Gary Owens did, as Marlon Brando did, as Sarah Bernhardt did in the 19 so as all as you do, Michael, you're a parader. You're the head of the parade. You've been in on your own float for years. I read your your bio. I don't even know why you want to waste a minute talking to me for goodness sakes.   Michael Hingson ** 47:26 You know, the one thing about podcasts that I like over radio, and I did radio at kuci for seven years when I was in school, what I really like about podcasts is they're not and this is also would be true for Tiktok and YouTube. Primarily Tiktok, I would would say it isn't as structured. So if we don't finish in 60 minutes, and we finish in 61 minutes, no one's gonna shoot us.   Bill Ratner ** 47:53 Well, I beg to differ with you. Now. I'm gonna start a fight with you. Michael, yeah, we need conflict in this script. Is that it The Tick Tock is very structured. Six. No,   Michael Hingson ** 48:03 no, I understand that. I'm talking about podcasts,   Bill Ratner ** 48:07 though, but there's a problem. We gotta Tone It Up. We gotta pick it up. We gotta there's a lot of and I listen to what are otherwise really bright, wonderful personalities on screen, celebrities who have podcasts and the car sucks, and then I had meatballs for dinner, haha. And you know what my wife said? Why? You know? And there's just too much of that. And,   Michael Hingson ** 48:32 oh, I understand, yeah. I mean, it's like, like anything, but I'm just saying that's one of the reasons I love podcasting. So it's my way of continuing what I used to do in radio and having a lot of fun doing it   Bill Ratner ** 48:43 all right, let me ask you. Let me ask you a technical and editorial question. Let me ask you an artistic question. An artist, can you edit this podcast? Yeah. Are you? Do you plan to Nope.   Michael Hingson ** 48:56 I think conversations are conversations, but there is a but, I mean,   Bill Ratner ** 49:01 there have been starts and stops and I answer a question, and there's a long pause, and then, yeah, we can do you edit that stuff   Michael Hingson ** 49:08 out. We do, we do, edit some of that out. And I have somebody that that that does a lot of it, because I'm doing more podcasts, and also I travel and speak, but I can edit. There's a program called Reaper, which is really a very sophisticated   Bill Ratner ** 49:26 close up spaces. You   Michael Hingson ** 49:28 can close up spaces with it, yes, but the neat thing about Reaper is that somebody has written scripts to make it incredibly accessible for blind people using screen readers.   Bill Ratner ** 49:40 What does it do? What does it do? Give me the elevator pitch.   Michael Hingson ** 49:46 You've seen some of the the programs that people use, like computer vision and other things to do editing of videos and so on. Yeah.   Bill Ratner ** 49:55 Yeah. Even Apple. Apple edit. What is it called? Apple? Garage Band. No, that's audio. What's that   Michael Hingson ** 50:03 audio? Oh,   Bill Ratner ** 50:06 quick time is quick   Michael Hingson ** 50:07 time. But whether it's video or audio, the point is that Reaper allows me to do all of that. I can edit audio. I can insert, I can remove pauses. I can do anything with Reaper that anyone else can do editing audio, because it's been made completely accessible.   Bill Ratner ** 50:27 That's great. That's good. That's nice. Oh, it is. It's cool.   Michael Hingson ** 50:31 So so if I want, I can edit this and just have my questions and then silence when you're talking.   Bill Ratner ** 50:38 That might be best. Ladies and gentlemen, here's Bill Ratner,   Michael Hingson ** 50:46 yep, exactly, exactly. Now you have won the moth stories. Slam, what? Tell me about my story. Slam, you've won it nine times.   Bill Ratner ** 51:00 The Moth was started by a writer, a novelist who had lived in the South and moved to New York City, successful novelist named George Dawes green. And the inception of the moth, which many people listening are familiar with from the Moth Radio Hour. It was, I believe, either late 90s or early 2000s when he'd been in New York for a while and was was publishing as a fiction writer, and threw a party, and decided, instead of going to one of these dumb, boring parties or the same drinks being served and same cigarettes being smoked out in the veranda and the same orders. I'm going to ask people to bring a five minute story, a personal story, nature, a true story. You don't have to have one to get into the party, but I encourage you to. And so you know, the 3040, 50 people showed up, many of whom had stories, and they had a few drinks, and they had hors d'oeuvres. And then he said, Okay, ladies and gentlemen, take your seats. It's time for and then I picked names out of a hat, and person after person after person stood up in a very unusual setting, which was almost never done at parties. You How often do you see that happen? Suddenly, the room falls silent, and someone with permission being having been asked by the host to tell a personal story, some funny, some tragic, some complex, some embarrassing, some racy, some wild, some action filled. And afterward, the feedback he got from his friends was, this is the most amazing experience I've ever had in my life. And someone said, you need to do this. And he said, Well, you people left a lot of cigarette butts and beer cans around my apartment. And they said, well, let's do it at a coffee shop. Let's do it at a church basement. So slowly but surely, the moth storytelling, story slams, which were designed after the old poetry slams in the 50s and 60s, where they were judged contests like, like a dance contest. Everybody's familiar with dance contests? Well, there were, then came poetry contests with people singing and, you know, and singing and really energetically, really reading. There then came storytelling contests with people standing on a stage before a silent audience, telling a hopefully interesting, riveting story, beginning middle, end in five minutes. And so a coffee house was found. A monthly calendar was set up. Then came the internet. Then it was so popular standing room only that they had to open yet another and another, and today, some 20 years later, 20 some years later, from Austin, Texas to San Francisco, California to Minneapolis, Minnesota to New York City to Los Angeles. There are moth story slams available on online for you to schedule yourself to go live and in person at the moth.org as in the moth with wings. Friend of mine, I was in New York. He said, You can't believe it. This writer guy, a writer friend of mine who I had read, kind of an avant garde, strange, funny writer was was hosting something called the moth in New York, and we were texting each other. He said, Well, I want to go. The theme was show business. I was going to talk to my Uncle Bobby, who was the bell boy. And I Love Lucy. I'll tell a story. And I texted him that day. He said, Oh man, I'm so sorry. I had the day wrong. It's next week. Next week, I'm going to be back home. And so he said, Well, I think there's a moth in Los Angeles. So about 15 years ago, I searched it down and what? Went to a small Korean barbecue that had a tiny little stage that originally was for Korean musicians, and it was now being used for everything from stand up comedy to evenings of rock and roll to now moth storytelling once a month. And I think the theme was first time. And so I got up and told a silly story and didn't win first prize. They have judges that volunteer judges a table of three judges scoring, you like, at a swim meet or a track beat or, you know, and our gymnastics meet. So this is all sort of familiar territory for everybody, except it's storytelling and not high jumping or pull ups. And I kept going back. I was addicted to it. I would write a story and I'd memorize it, and I'd show up and try to make it four minutes and 50 seconds and try to make it sound like I was really telling a story and not reading from a script. And wish I wasn't, because I would throw the script away, and I knew the stories well enough. And then they created a radio show. And then I began to win slams and compete in the grand slams. And then I started submitting these 750 word, you know, two and a half page stories. Literary magazines got a few published and found a whole new way to spend my time and not make much   Michael Hingson ** 56:25 money. Then you went into poetry.   Bill Ratner ** 56:29 Then I got so bored with my prose writing that I took a poetry course from a wonderful guy in LA called Jack grapes, who had been an actor and a football player and come to Hollywood and did some TV, episodics and and some some episodic TV, and taught poetry. It was a poet in the schools, and I took his class of adults and got a poem published. And thought, wait a minute, these aren't even 750 words. They're like 75 words. I mean, you could write a 10,000 word poem if you want, but some people have, yeah, and it was complex, and there was so much to read and so much to learn and so much that was interesting and odd. And a daughter of a friend of mine is a poet, said, Mommy, are you going to read me one of those little word movies before I go to sleep?   Michael Hingson ** 57:23 A little word movie, word movie out of the   Bill Ratner ** 57:27 mouths of babes. Yeah, and so, so and I perform. You know, last night, I was in Orange County at a organization called ugly mug Cafe, and a bunch of us poets read from an anthology that was published, and we sold our books, and heard other young poets who were absolutely marvelous and and it's, you know, it's not for everybody, but it's one of the things I do.   Michael Hingson ** 57:54 Well, you sent me pictures of book covers, so they're going to be in the show notes. And I hope people will will go out and get them   Bill Ratner ** 58:01 cool. One of the one of the things that I did with poetry, in addition to wanting to get published and wanting to read before people, is wanting to see if there is a way. Because poetry was, was very satisfying, emotionally to me, intellectually very challenging and satisfying at times. And emotionally challenging and very satisfying at times, writing about things personal, writing about nature, writing about friends, writing about stories that I received some training from the National Association for poetry therapy. Poetry therapy is being used like art therapy, right? And have conducted some sessions and and participated in many and ended up working with eighth graders of kids who had lost someone to death in the past year of their lives. This is before covid in the public schools in Los Angeles. And so there's a lot of that kind of work that is being done by constable people, by writers, by poets, by playwrights,   Michael Hingson ** 59:09 and you became a grief counselor,   Bill Ratner ** 59:13 yes, and don't do that full time, because I do voiceovers full time, right? Write poetry and a grand. Am an active grandparent, but I do the occasional poetry session around around grief poetry.   Michael Hingson ** 59:31 So you're a grandparent, so you've had kids and all that. Yes, sir, well, that's is your wife still with us? Yes?   Bill Ratner ** 59:40 Oh, great, yeah, she's an artist and an art educator. Well, that   Michael Hingson ** 59:46 so the two of you can criticize each other's works, then, just   Bill Ratner ** 59:52 saying, we're actually pretty kind to each other. I Yeah, we have a lot of we have a lot of outside criticism. Them. So, yeah, you don't need to do it internally. We don't rely on it. What do you think of this although, although, more than occasionally, each of us will say, What do you think of this poem, honey? Or what do you think of this painting, honey? And my the favorite, favorite thing that my wife says that always thrills me and makes me very happy to be with her is, I'll come down and she's beginning a new work of a new piece of art for an exhibition somewhere. I'll say, what? Tell me about what's, what's going on with that, and she'll go, you know, I have no idea, but it'll tell me what to do.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:33 Yeah, it's, it's like a lot of authors talk about the fact that their characters write the stories right, which, which makes a lot of sense. So with all that you've done, are you writing a memoir? By any chance, I   Bill Ratner ** 1:00:46 am writing a memoir, and writing has been interesting. I've been doing it for many years. I got it was my graduate thesis from University of California Riverside Palm Desert.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:57 My wife was a UC Riverside graduate. Oh, hi. Well, they   Bill Ratner ** 1:01:01 have a low residency program where you go for 10 days in January, 10 days in June. The rest of it's online, which a lot of universities are doing, low residency programs for people who work and I got an MFA in creative writing nonfiction, had a book called parenting for the digital age, the truth about media's effect on children. And was halfway through it, the publisher liked it, but they said you got to double the length. So I went back to school to try to figure out how to double the length. And was was able to do it, and decided to move on to personal memoir and personal storytelling, such as goes on at the moth but a little more personal than that. Some of the material that I was reading in the memoir section of a bookstore was very, very personal and was very helpful to read about people who've gone through particular issues in their childhood. Mine not being physical abuse or sexual abuse, mine being death and loss, which is different. And so that became a focus of my graduate thesis, and many people were urging me to write a memoir. Someone said, you need to do a one man show. So I entered the Hollywood fringe and did a one man show and got good reviews and had a good time and did another one man show the next year and and so on. So But writing memoir as anybody knows, and they're probably listeners who are either taking memoir courses online or who may be actively writing memoirs or short memoir pieces, as everybody knows it, can put you through moods from absolutely ecstatic, oh my gosh, I got this done. I got this story told, and someone liked it, to oh my gosh, I'm so depressed I don't understand why. Oh, wait a minute, I was writing about such and such today. Yeah. So that's the challenge for the memoir is for the personal storyteller, it's also, you know, and it's more of a challenge than it is for the reader, unless it's bad writing and the reader can't stand that. For me as a reader, I'm fascinated by people's difficult stories, if they're well   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:24 told well, I know that when in 2002 I was advised to write a book about the World Trade Center experiences and all, and it took eight years to kind of pull it all together. And then I met a woman who actually I collaborated with, Susie Florey, and we wrote thunder dog. And her agent became my agent, who loved the proposal that we sent and actually got a contract within a week. So thunder dog came out in 2011 was a New York Times bestseller, and very blessed by that, and we're working toward the day that it will become a movie still, but it'll happen. And then I wrote a children's version of it, well, not a children's version of the book, but a children's book about me growing up in Roselle, growing up the guide dog who was with me in the World Trade Center, and that's been on Amazon. We self published it. Then last year, we published a new book called Live like a guide dog, which is all about controlling fear and teaching people lessons that I learned prior to September 11. That helped me focus and remain calm.   Bill Ratner ** 1:04:23 What happened to you on September 11,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:27 I was in the World Trade Center. I worked on the 78th floor of Tower One.   Bill Ratner ** 1:04:32 And what happened? I mean, what happened to you?   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:36 Um, nothing that day. I mean, well, I got out. How did you get out? Down the stairs? That was the only way to go. So, so the real story is not doing it, but why it worked. And the real issue is that I spent a lot of time when I first went into the World Trade Center, learning all I could about what to do in an emergency, talking to police, port authorities. Security people, emergency preparedness people, and also just walking around the world trade center and learning the whole place, because I ran an office for a company, and I wasn't going to rely on someone else to, like, lead me around if we're going to go to lunch somewhere and take people out before we negotiated contracts. So I needed to know all of that, and I learned all I could, also realizing that if there ever was an emergency, I might be the only one in the office, or we might be in an area where people couldn't read the signs to know what to do anyway. And so I had to take the responsibility of learning all that, which I did. And then when the planes hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building, we get we had some guests in the office. Got them out, and then another colleague, who was in from our corporate office, and I and my guide dog, Roselle, went to the stairs, and we started down. And   Bill Ratner ** 1:05:54 so, so what floor did the plane strike?   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:58 It struck and the NOR and the North Tower, between floors 93 and 99 so I just say 96 okay, and you were 20 floors down, 78 floors 78 so we were 18 floors below, and   Bill Ratner ** 1:06:09 at the moment of impact, what did you think?   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:13 Had no idea we heard a muffled kind of explosion, because the plane hit on the other side of the building, 18 floors above us. There was no way to know what was going on. Did you feel? Did you feel? Oh, the building literally tipped, probably about 20 feet. It kept tipping. And then we actually said goodbye to each other, and then the building came back upright. And then we went,   Bill Ratner ** 1:06:34 really you so you thought you were going to die?   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:38 David, my colleague who was with me, as I said, he was from our California office, and he was there to help with some seminars we were going to be doing. We actually were saying goodbye to each other because we thought we were about to take a 78 floor plunge to the street, when the building stopped tipping and it came back. Designed to do that by the architect. It was designed to do that, which is the point, the point.   Bill Ratner ** 1:07:02 Goodness, gracious. And then did you know how to get to the stairway?   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:04 Oh, absolutely. And did you do it with your friend? Yeah, the first thing we did, the first thing we did is I got him to get we had some guests, and I said, get him to the stairs. Don't let him take the elevators, because I knew he had seen fire above us, but that's all we knew. And but I said, don't take the elevators. Don't let them take elevators. Get them to the stairs and then come back and we'll leave. So he did all that, and then he came back, and we went to the stairs and started down.   Bill Ratner ** 1:07:33 Wow. Could you smell anything?   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:36 We smelled burning jet fuel fumes on the way down. And that's how we figured out an airplane must have hit the building, but we had no idea what happened. We didn't know what happened until the until both towers had collapsed, and I actually talked to my wife, and she's the one who told us how to aircraft have been crashed into the towers, one into the Pentagon, and a fourth, at that time, was still missing over Pennsylvania. Wow. So you'll have to go pick up a copy of thunder dog. Goodness. Good. Thunder dog. The name of the book is Thunder dog, and the book I wrote last year is called Live like a guide dog. It's le

What does it mean to truly use your voice—to tell stories, bring words to life, and inspire others even when life throws challenge's your way? My guest this week, Amber Ba'th, embodies that Unstoppable spirit. Amber is a professional voice actor, a Bible narrator for the Dwell app, and a functional nutritionist who turned a life-changing diagnosis into a deeper calling. Amber opens up about performing on stage, finding her place in the booth, and learning resilience after being diagnosed with transverse myelitis. Her story reminds us that creativity and courage don't fade—they evolve. I think you'll be moved by her honesty, her strength, and her Unstoppable commitment to sharing her voice with the world.   Highlights:   00:10 – Hear how early curiosity in theater grew into a lifelong love for performance. 03:21 – Learn how family roots in the arts shaped a career in acting and voice. 07:21 – Discover why live theater creates a unique audience experience you can't get in film. 14:03 – See how studying Theater Arts Administration opened doors beyond the stage. 17:24 – Find out what moving to LA taught her about auditions, hustle, and opportunity. 25:37 – Get the real entry point into voiceover and why COVID pushed her to record at home. 27:26 – Understand the scope and process of narrating the entire CSB Bible for the Dwell app. 32:07 – Learn how leaning into “villain” characters can expand your VO range. 35:06 – Take why acting classes matter for believable, persuasive voiceover reads. 38:05 – Hear her journey with transverse myelitis and how she reframed ability. 43:47 – See how diet changes and self-advocacy supported healing and daily function. 54:14 – Learn practical nutrition tips VO pros use to protect tone and clarity.   About the Guest:   Hi, I'm Amber Ba'th—pronounced By-ee-th! I'm a Philadelphia native with roots in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. I earned my BFA in Theatre Arts Administration from the legendary Howard University, and from the very beginning, storytelling and performance have been a huge part of my life. Whether through stage, screen, or sound, I believe creative expression has the ability to inspire, uplift, and connect people. That belief and my faith in Christ, has guided every step of my journey in the entertainment industry.   With over 20 years of experience in theater and film, I've worn many hats—actor, voice actor, producer, company manager, and coach. My early days at Philadelphia's Freedom Theatre gave me the foundation to work on national tours and major productions, such as The Fabric of a Man (national stage and film), and the national tour of If This Hat Could Talk under Tony Award-winning director George Faison. I've also stepped in front of the camera, appearing in Ice Cube's Friday After Next and national print campaigns for McDonald's that landed me in Essence, O Magazine, and Woman's World.   Voice acting has become one of my deepest passions. I've had the privilege of lending my voice to projects for Delorean, Holler Studios, Amazon, Make Originals, and most notably, narrating the greatest story ever told for the Dwell Bible App; just to name a few. I'm known for being versatile—able to bring warmth, humor, authority, and charisma into every read. Whether a character needs to feel animated, compassionate, bold, or simply relatable, I approach every project with creative precision and care.   I've been fortunate to learn from incredible mentors like Nick Omana, Art Evans, Queen Noveen, Linda Bearman, Al Woodley, Joyce Castellanos, JD Lawrence, and Rolonda Watts, and to collaborate with talent across every corner of this industry. I'm always growing, always listening, and always grateful. My goal is not only to entertain but also to reflect God's grace through my work. Faith is my anchor—it's the reason I'm able to keep showing up in this ever-changing field with joy and purpose.   Outside of my career, I'm a mother of two, and I live with a “different ability” that has only strengthened my walk and testimony. I believe that what God has for me is for me, and I want other artists to feel empowered to claim that same truth for themselves. As someone in the faith, You are royalty—act like it, speak like it, know it. I'm here to tell stories, give voice to vision, and ultimately to help others feel seen, heard, and deeply valued in this industry.   Ways to connect with Amber:   LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamamberbath/   IG- https://www.instagram.com/iamamberbath/   YouTube- YouTube.com/@iamamberbath   Website- www.iamamberbath.com     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello everyone. Wherever you happen to be, I am Michael Hingson, and this is unstoppable mindset. We are really excited that you're here with us today. And we have a fascinating guest who was referred to us by another fascinating guest who is coming on unstoppable mindset, and we'll get to all that, I am sure. But Amber bath is how she pronounces her last name by eth. I'm saying that right. I assume that is correct. Oh, good. Never want to get it too wrong, you know. Anyway, Amber is a voice actor and does a lot of different things. And we learned about Amber from someone who we were referred to by Walden Hughes, that reps in yesterday USA, and Walden has been on unstoppable mindset a couple of times. Amber, do you know Walden? I know I don't. Well, then we can spread all sorts of rumors and you'll believe everyone, right, absolutely. Anyway. So anyway, what Linda Berryman, you know, so that works. Anyway, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. It's really a joy and a pleasure to have you, and thank you for being here.   Amber Ba'th ** 02:42 Thank you for having me. This is such an exciting moment. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:46 I'm anxious to learn all about voice acting and some of those things. But why don't we start by maybe you telling us a little bit about kind of the early Amber growing up and all that sort of stuff. Well, always a good place to start. You know, a   Amber Ba'th ** 03:02 long time ago   Michael Hingson ** 03:03 in a galaxy, far, far away, yes,   Amber Ba'th ** 03:07 oh my gosh. Well, I I'm a suburbian girl here. I'm from the suburbs, actually Philadelphia. I was actually born in DC, raised in Philly, went back to DC, then moved all the way across country to La La Land. Is that where you are now, I'm not. I'm actually back in DC.   Michael Hingson ** 03:33 Go figure. Right now I'm, I'm really curious to hear the history of all these moves. But anyway, so you were raised in Philadelphia. Did you ever meet Rocky Balboa? Just checking,   Amber Ba'th ** 03:45 no, just ran the steps. You did run the steps. I did run the steps. Yeah, actually got a heat stroke. But I did. I was, I was young at the time, and it was super hot. And you know, it's like, yeah, you know, I'm gonna run the steps. Ran the steps, and just shouldn't have   Michael Hingson ** 04:04 done that, not in the middle of the day. No, when did he run them? It was in the morning, wasn't it?   Amber Ba'th ** 04:11 Yeah, he always ran in the morning. So no, I was this was in the heat of the day.   Michael Hingson ** 04:16 So huh, we all have our growth issues that we have to deal with so so you but you were raised in Philadelphia, and you went to school there and so on, and what kind of were your interests and so on, growing up   Amber Ba'th ** 04:32 theater, I was really, I mean, I come from A family who has always been in the spotlight. I had two aunts who actually had a touring show titled The sisters, the Stuart sisters. And, you know, I've always been wanting either to dance, to sing, to act. That was just. Just my thing.   Michael Hingson ** 05:02 So they you came by, it pretty honestly. Then exactly anything else. They were actors in the show.   Amber Ba'th ** 05:10 They were, yeah, one was a singer and one was an actress.   Michael Hingson ** 05:12 Yes, oh, cool, yeah. Well, and what was the show about?   Amber Ba'th ** 05:18 Actually, it was about Harriet Tubman, Sojourner, Sojourner, truth. And it was it they actually toured different toward the country and talked about the Underground Railroad and and and how they were able to escape and free other, other slaves.   Michael Hingson ** 05:42 Now that show isn't whether it's your parents or not, but that show is not on now. It's not running.   Amber Ba'th ** 05:50 This was a stage play. This was many, many years   Michael Hingson ** 05:52 ago, right, right, yeah, but they but no one has continued. I would think it would be a very valuable thing to keep around you.   Amber Ba'th ** 05:59 Would think it would be that, you know, the traditional way, but we kind of moved in different directions, you know. So   Michael Hingson ** 06:06 everything closes eventually. The fantastics eventually closed, and that was on for the longest time, yeah? Well, even cats was on for a long time. Oh, yeah. I, I think, although I don't know, but the producers, I think, has closed,   Amber Ba'th ** 06:22 yeah. And I really wanted to see that. I saw the film, but I wanted to see the stage play.   Michael Hingson ** 06:28 Oh, the stage play was much better than the film, I'm sure. You know, I don't know what it is about Matthew Broderick, but he just doesn't sound natural in films. But we went to see it. It was in August of 2001 and we were living in New Jersey, and I was in New York, because that's where we had our offices, on the 78th floor of Tower One of the World Trade Center. And on a Tuesday in 2001 in August, I went over to the theater where the producers was, and I figured, I'll see if I can get tickets. Because my wife, Karen, who was now she's my late wife. She and I were married for 40 years, and then she passed away. But anyway, we I decided that we would try to see it, and I went over to the theater, and I said, so I want to see if I can get two tickets to the producers. And I knew that the media had said all the news media said, you can't get a ticket before March of 2002 and I said, well, but the deal is that my wife is in a wheelchair. Can we by any chance get a matinee to to go see it? And the guy said, I'm sorry, there's just nothing until at least no December. And I said, Well, okay, is there any chance of any other time other than the weekend, or anything that we could get? And he said, Well, just wait a minute. And he goes away, and he comes back and he goes, What are you doing Saturday night? I went, I guess I'll go see the producers, right? And we did. We got to see the original cast, of course, Matthew Broderick, Nathan Lane and Katie Huffman, who played Ulla. And was so wonderful to see that show. We had seen Matthew Broderick and Sarah Jessica Parker in How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. And then we saw Nathan Lane, and A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. So we had seen them all perform before, but that was so fun to see.   Amber Ba'th ** 08:27 That's awesome, yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 08:29 And I think that the film wasn't nearly as good as the play, but   Amber Ba'th ** 08:34 I'm sure it wasn't. So my theater is so dear to me. I I don't know, it's something about the willingness, suspension of disbelief, of breaking out of reality and just, you know, getting away from it all, and just sitting and enjoying yourself, laughing at just sometimes it can be nonsensical. Sometimes it can be sort of reality, you know, whatever, whatever genre you like, and it's nothing like being in the audience when you're when you're having when you're in there as live theater. So it's always a great opportunity to go and see a show, if you are able.   Michael Hingson ** 09:18 Why is it so much more fun, and so many people feel as you do about that, as opposed to going to a movie,   Amber Ba'th ** 09:29 it's, it's a it's a cultural thing for me, and it's immersing yourself in the culture of theater, seeing the different nuances. There's sometimes there's interaction, like, they'll break the fourth wall. Sometimes in that, in every show, is not the same. That's the great thing about theater, because you could go to a show on a Monday and then you go back to see it on a Friday, and it's like, totally different. Yeah, you.   Michael Hingson ** 10:00 It was 93 or 94 whenever they had the big baseball strike. And I went to see Damn Yankees, which has always been one of my favorite movies, because I've always been a ray Walston fan anyway, but went to see it, and during the the and I don't remember who was, who was in it, but at one point, Mr. Applegate, the devil, said, we've got to do something to to disrupt this whole baseball thing and get Joe Hardy back in line with what we want. He said, I got it. Let's organize a baseball strike right there in the middle of the theater. I mean, you know that that had to be ad libbed and just done, but it was so funny to see.   Amber Ba'th ** 10:44 Yeah, you never know what you're gonna get. You know, it's always exciting to see. And   Michael Hingson ** 10:49 I think that the reason that I like theater over over movies is, in part, you're hearing a lot more. Even though there's still audio and electronics, you're still hearing the PA system. You're not hearing the PA system as much. You're really hearing voices exactly you're hearing and seeing so many things. We did go to see Damn Yankees again a few years later, we had moved to New Jersey by that time, and Jerry Lewis was playing Mr. Applegate. Wow. It was the only time he ever did anything on Broadway and and did such a wonderful job. It was incredible, really.   Amber Ba'th ** 11:26 You know, it's the last show that I actually saw. Was Daniel at the sight and sound Oh and oh my goodness, I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna go see Noah. But I was literally sitting on the floor at the end aisle, and when the animals came out, I could actually reach out and touch them if I wanted to. But it was just so beautifully done. It was so amazing. It I can't, I can't even there are words that can't describe the the acting, the set, set design, the sound, everything about that show was amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 12:12 We went to see the Lion King. Karen's brother got us tickets. He was a certified ski guide in France, and he was coming back for the summer with his family, and got all of us tickets. So we went to see Lion King. It was a matinee on a Wednesday, and we got into the theater and the show started. And I knew kind of how it started, with the music and so on, but there's still nothing like hearing it live. But we it live. But we, we, we were listening. And then at one point, of course, the hyenas come in, and they meet with scar but in the play, in the in the musical, they come in from the back of the theater, down the stairs, and Karen, of course, being in a wheelchair, sitting in her chair on the aisle, and the hyenas are growling and they're coming by, and one of them gets right up next to her and goes, you've never seen a lady in a wheelchair jump out of her chair. Oh, it was so funny, but we were talking about it later, and she said, It wasn't long before you got completely used to all these animals, these puppets, and you didn't think of them as anything but the actual animals, wow, which, you know, you you you get in a theater, which you don't get the same in the movies at all. But it was, it was a lot of fun. We actually did get to go backstage afterward and meet some of the actors, and I actually got a chance to look at one of the animals, which was kind of fun.   Amber Ba'th ** 13:47 That's awesome, you know, I'm sorry. The other thing is that when you are in live theater, there's an intermission, and you get to actually mix and mingle with other people, other theater goers. So that's always another thing. I mean, you know, going to the movies. Yeah, you see other people walking back and forth, but they're, you know, rushing for their seat, going to the restroom, getting, you know, and going to the concessions. But there are moments where they're either taking pictures. Sometimes the cast members may come out during intermission, take pictures, and it's more of an interaction with everybody.   Michael Hingson ** 14:24 We went to see God spell once in San Diego, and what we didn't know was there was a guy out there who was coming up to people and wanting to clean their windshields and so on. And what we didn't know until later was that was the actor who played John. He was in character. He was being a servant. It was, it was great. That was so clever. That's awesome. So what did you do for college? Well, I went, as if we don't know,   Amber Ba'th ** 14:55 and I know, right? I went to Howard University. Yeah, and I majored in theater arts administration, uh huh, yeah. So it's the funny thing about that was I always, you know, was in the theater, and my mother told me, I am not paying for you to be an actor. I'm like, Well, I don't know anything else. And this particular year, when I came in, they had just started the theater arts administration program, and I said, Well, I can't do acting. I don't know anything else. This is it. And I really didn't know what that entailed until I got in and I said, Hmm, let's see I get to know the behind the scenes aspects. I can also be a producer to director. I could, you know, basically tell people what to do. That is for me,   Michael Hingson ** 15:50 there you go. So you so you got your degree in that. How come your mother wouldn't pay for you to be an actor?   Amber Ba'th ** 15:59 Because, I mean, back then it was just like, you know, that's something that that's not a real job, no. And even though she did it, they think like that, you know, that's not a real job. You know, it'll never amount to anything. You won't you get, you won't get where you want to be, you know. So I said, you know, I don't know anything else but, but this so, you know, so thank God that that was something that was there when I did come in there.   Michael Hingson ** 16:27 Well, so you, you got your degree in theater arts, production, administration, administration, and so you, you learned how to tell everybody what to do, which sounds a good thing to do, right? And so then what happened after college?   Amber Ba'th ** 16:47 Well, after college, I was I had always been one of those types that said, Oh no, I just got out of college, and maybe two days later I don't have a job, and I'm always worried about that, but I had someone, a classmate, say, You know what, I think you'd be a good fit for this. And what is she talking about? And I don't know if you recall HBO taxicab confessions, uh huh. Okay, so they actually came to DC, and, you know, they chose me. I was chosen to be their production assistant, and I was in the follow vehicle with the cab, you know, all that kind of stuff. And it was like, Okay, this is a lot. This is a lot. They never aired it because a little too risque. But, I mean, they could air it now, but, you know, and they asked me to come to LA, you know, as, and that was a funny thing, because when, before then, I said, oh gosh, I'll never go to LA. It's like Sodom and Gomorrah. And so I wound up going to LA they said, you know, I'll give you, you know, get you a round trip ticket, you know, you can either stay, you can go back, you know, giving me that option. And I took it. I took it, and it was the best thing that I've   Michael Hingson ** 18:14 ever done. What did you do when you got out here?   Amber Ba'th ** 18:17 When I got out there? I, of course, I was working with them for a little bit, and then I decided, You know what, I want to be an actress. This is what this is. I'm here. I am in Hollywood.   Michael Hingson ** 18:29 Mom, not withstanding.   Amber Ba'th ** 18:33 I said, Oh my gosh. And of course, what did I do? I got whatever most actors got was a waitress, a way a serving job, you know, just something enough that I could act flexible enough that I could actually go on auditions and things like that. And I did. I went on auditions. I met a lot of different celebrities. I was in McDonald's had their quote, unquote, adult happy meal that I actually was the poster girl for. I was like, Oh my goodness. And I was in magazines, you know, things like that. And then one day, a friend of mine who graduated with me in theater arts administration, she was actually doing a production, a touring play as the company manager, which is like a tour manager. And she she got another invite to be the company manager on TD Jason's TD Jakes show, and she really wanted to take that so the producer said, Well, you're gonna have to find a replacement. So she called me up and I started working on a show with David Talbert called the fabric of a man who had starred Shamar Moore, and we toured for. Oh, wow. This is interesting, because I didn't really think about this until I started talking. We toured until let's see 910 and I remember because something happened in Houston, Texas, and we had to refund money to all of the audience members, and we're leaving. And what I would do after each show is make sure that the hotel was was taken care of, everything was taken care of. And we went home. Everyone went to their destinations, and we went home. And that morning, I called the hotel, and he told me that different people were still there, and I'm and I just didn't understand why, you know, at the time, because it was really early in the morning in LA and so I'm calling, and I'm like, Well, what's happening? He said, You don't know what's going on. And I said, No. He said, planes are going down everywhere. And I'm like, What are you talking about? I turned on the TV, and that's when I saw the second plane going into the tower. And I just Oh my gosh, this is kind of bringing back some stuff, because I am a woman of faith, and I actually prior to us leaving for seven days, prior to us going to to to Houston. I kept having these dreams about a plane going down in a field, you know, but it would be continuous things. And then the next night, there were planes. There were planes. Looks like two planes colliding. Then there was, I saw people falling out of the sky, and I was like that, this is not making any sense. I didn't know anything. I mean, I was, I didn't know what was going on. And I just kept dreaming these dreams. This is what's happening. Then when we when we were leaving Houston, I had a dream prior to us leaving of the exact shape, color of this plane that went down in the field. And we were, I was at the airport, and I'm looking, and I'm like, okay, that's not the plane that I saw. And so I get on the I get on the plane, and as I'm about to settle in, about to, you know, leave Houston, go to LA, there's a man dressed in Arab garb with, you know, something on his head. And I don't know why I said this, but I just said, I hope he doesn't want to jack the plane. And I went to sleep, and i The dream that I had was that I really saw who was falling out of the sky, but they had on business suits. So when I called the hotel and he told me this, it, it just took over me. You know, I was in shambles. I was like, What? What did I just dream? What happened? Something is not right. I didn't know what was wrong with me at the time. I thought there was something actually wrong with me. Like, why am I dreaming this? What is happening? So that was just something that you happened to ask me the question, and that brought it back. And then I'm thinking about you, you know, so,   Michael Hingson ** 23:44 ah, you know, so many people, many people that I've talked to who didn't at first know what was happening, and they they either turn on their TV, or they were at an airport or something, and they saw the second plane hit the towers and they thought it was a movie. And I've heard so many people say that then, of course, they realized that it wasn't a movie. But you know, a lot of people just thought it was a movie at first, because nobody could imagine it. And you know, that is true. How who would have thought that somebody would deliberately crash airplanes like that into the towers and into the Pentagon? And, of course, now the the one falling out of the sky was that flight 93 in Pennsylvania, Yes, uh huh. And eventually, when you saw the plane, or whatever that was, the plane that you dreamed about, exactly, yeah, uh huh, and that's not surprising. Yeah, there are so many stories of of different things that people experienced that day. We didn't know anything about what was going on until actually we got out of the. Towers, and both towers had collapsed, and my wife was the first one who told us that aircraft had been hijacked and so on. And of course, people say to me all the time, well, of course, you didn't know because you couldn't see it. Excuse me, the last time I checked as I tell people Superman and X ray vision are fiction, and the reality is the airplane hit about 18 floors above us on the other side of the building, no one knew all the way down the stairs, the hundreds of people that I interacted with going down the stairs didn't know what happened. We figured, we figured an airplane hit the building because we were smelling burning jet fuel fumes as we were going down the stairs. So we figured an airplane hit the building. But we had no details. We had no information. Blindness. Didn't have anything to do with it at all. But yeah, it's, it's just one of those things. Well, so you were in, you were still in the business of telling people what to do, which was really good. And how did you eventually, then get into voice acting?   Amber Ba'th ** 26:04 Well, I had always first, it's funny because you people who get into voice acting, oh, I really want to get into voice acting, and they think it's just this one thing that was me. I i always like to do voices. I like to play around with different things. My favorite is the villain. I don't know what it is, but I like to play the villain. But what happened was,   Michael Hingson ** 26:30 you and Cruella de Vil, okay,   Amber Ba'th ** 26:34 it was actually covid. You know, it was. The thing was that I literally was a preschool teacher at the time. And, you know, because after I left, I left LA, I got married and I had kids, and, you know, that kind of thing. So I was back in DC, and so, you know, after that, I covid happened, and I don't want to say it forced me, but it forced me. Nudged me, you know? And I said, you know, this would be great, because different things were happening. Where I was meeting people on on an on an app called clubhouse, and I said, Oh, this is cool. And I've always loved audio dramas too. So I actually about a $40 mic. I bought an eye rig, and I just hooked it up, and I just started talking. And I was in some acting workshops, some improv workshops. I was cast in an audio drama on clubhouse, you know? So it was, I was like, Oh, this is fun, you know, I like talking to myself anyway, so why not? So I created space in my walk in closet, and there you have it.   Michael Hingson ** 28:00 And the rest, as they say, is history. That's right. So what kind of roles have you had, and what kinds of voices and so on, have you created and done?   Amber Ba'th ** 28:11 Well, I I actually, I did the Bible, you know. And whenever I tell the person I narrated the Bible, they're like, the whole Bible, yeah, the whole Bible, technically, that would be 66 books that I narrate, yeah, you know. But yeah, I did the whole Bible for a Bible app, the CSB version for the dwell app, and it was just amazing, because just a little story behind that, I was someone wanted me to narrate their book, and they said that, you know, we want you to narrate it, but we don't want to use your name. We want you to. We want to, we want to use your voice, but we want the narrow, the author to be the narrator. Is this like a ghost Narrator or something, really, that's a   Michael Hingson ** 29:10 little strange, you know? And, oh, we'll give you this   Amber Ba'th ** 29:13 amount of money. Like, okay? And then I actually was praying about it. And, you know, the Lord spoke to me, and he said, I gave you that voice. So I had to decline. And then someone else came to me to narrate a book, and they were taking forever. Oh, it's not ready yet. It's ready. It's not ready yet. And I said, look, okay, I can't do this. I had auditioned for the Bible. And normally it takes, it's like a 2448 hour turnaround time to really know if you if this is for you. Yeah, and I didn't hear anything for about maybe three weeks. And I was like, I guess they found their person. And. I get an email saying that we got good news. You just booked the CSV version. I think I dropped whatever I had in my hand and fell before and, you know, it was just, it was just amazing. So, you know, because what I what happened was I read the Bible every day, and this particular and I read it in a year. So this particular year, I decided to listen to it, and, you know? And I said, You know what, Lord, it would be cool if I could narrate this. And then I had this audition, and I was blessed to read the Bible, and I did it in less than a year.   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 Wow, yeah, it's clearly, you know, it's a long thing. Do you know who Carl Omari is? No. Carl Omari, well, he's probably most known for having recreated the Twilight Zone radio broadcasts. So he, years ago, he took all the Twilight Zone episodes. He got permission from Rod Serling estate, and he created radio broadcasts of them, but he also did the Living Bible, and he got people like Michael York to to be involved in other actors and so on. So I know having, and I own a copy, and I didn't even know about Carl doing it at the time, but it's 98 hours long. It's a long it's a big one.   Amber Ba'th ** 31:22 It's a long one. It is long. But, yeah, that was exciting. Also, I recently just narrated a book called heaven, not by Patricia Robinson, and it's very Orwellian. I should say, you know, I, as I was renarrating it, I'm like, this stuff is happening now. And she wrote it years ago. And I'm talking about, as my children would say, in the 1900s you know. So it was, it was amazing. It was amazing to do that and and I love it, but I do love animated characters. So one of the characters that I never actually thought that I was someone to do impersonations. You know, it's like I got my own voice. You don't need to do anybody else voice. But I was in a workshop for with a good friend, Chris Woodsworth, and he's over in the UK. And he said, Well, what do you like to do? And I said, I like villains. So he thought of a villain, and I never would have thought about Isma from the Emperor's New Groove, and when I was researching, when I was going over the lines, I had to stop myself, because it scared me, because I said, Wait a minute, I really sound like her.   Michael Hingson ** 32:56 All right, really creepy. We need to hear you sound like a villain.   Amber Ba'th ** 33:00 Oh, my goodness, Isma. Okay, so Isma is Cronk. Why did I think that you got this one simple thing? It's like you're a dude, a really, really big stupid monkey named Cronk. And do you want to know something else? I never licked your spinach puffs, never Oh, oh, gosh, oh, goodness. And then, you know, I love, it's the last the laugh that a villain does. I did that, you know, I, I did one. It's called a micro animation called house in the Outlands, and I played a character named sathagawa. And it was one of those, you know, one of those. It was so cool. You know,   Michael Hingson ** 33:49 I've, I've always been impressed with listening to voices and so on, and voice acting, to a large degree, one of the things that I that really made me appreciate a lot of it was, of course, James Earl Jones playing Darth Vader on Star Wars. And then I had the opportunity, while I was in New York once, to go see James Earl Jones and Christopher Plummer in Othello. What an amazing performance, because at the end, when Othello falls on his sword, you know, you know what's going to happen. People have read the play. It's not like Othello is a secret, right, right? The whole crowd just went when he did that. I mean, they were so drawn in by the power of both of their voices and the acting, which is, I've just always loved the fact that people can do that.   Amber Ba'th ** 34:48 Yeah, it's it's amazing. Sometimes I listen to myself and I'm like, That's me.   Michael Hingson ** 34:56 Well, your prejudice. So I. But still, it's just amazing how people can can do so much with with voice collecting old radio shows, as I do, it's really fascinating to to hear all the old shows and the different things that that people do, and the way they can sound so natural doing so many different kinds of voices and so on. And I think we've lost that art, to a degree, at least for a lot of people who try to go off and recreate radio shows, it sounds forced. And we've we've not been able to really train people, although I think one of the things that the radio enthusiast of Puget Sound wants to do is to actually start providing some acting classes to teach people how to use their voices in really doing radio shows, right.   Amber Ba'th ** 35:54 Yeah, yeah, you're so right. I mean, when I was I was actually a a moderator and assistant to a improv workshop coach. I always told students it is so imperative to take acting classes. I mean, I know with voiceovers, it's a lot of it's commercial and things like that, but you have to understand that when you are conveying a message, you know, I don't care how great your voice sounds, if the listener cannot feel, you cannot really get into what you're saying. Or even, let's just say it's a commercial for food. If they can't say, Okay, I gotta go and get some food. Now, you know, then you didn't do your job, right? You know? And I tried to let I said, Listen, it's not just people, you know. They will say, Oh, I'm selling burgers. No, you're not. You're not selling burgers. You know, it's people are hungry. You know, you're telling people this is what they should do because you're hungry, it's mouth watering, yeah, you know, describe what you're eating, and you have to do it in such a way, in such in such a short amount of time, that it just leaves people salivating, you know? And that's, that's what they want, that's what sells the food, the product, or or whatever, whatever it is that you are sharing. So I really tell students, please take acting classes. Yeah, you have to see it, envision it. Sometimes you got to get up and, you know, move around. Sometimes when you're doing auditions, or when you're actually doing a session or performances, you know, and nobody can see you.   Michael Hingson ** 37:50 And it's about the voice. I know that the again, reps the radio enthusiast at Puget Sound does a number of radio recreations. I participated in a couple, but one of the things that I do, and a few of the actors who have been around for a long time, Margaret O'Brien and Beverly Washburn and other people like that, before they will undertake one of the parts that they're they're asked to do in recreating a radio show, they go back and listen to the original show because they want to get into the character.   You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

The federal government shutdown is now in its fourth week. Over 700,000 federal employees have been furloughed, with nearly as many continuing to work without pay, yet there are still no signs that an end to the shutdown is near. “Unlike past presidents, Mr. Trump appears to feel little urgency to strike a deal to reopen the government,” Luke Broadwater writes at The New York Times. “Instead, he has used the shutdown, which began Oct. 1, as an opportunity to further remake the federal bureaucracy and jettison programs he does not like, seizing on unorthodox budgetary maneuvers that some have called illegal.” In this episode, we speak with three furloughed federal employees about the harm government shutdowns cause working people, and we discuss why this shutdown is different. Guests: Adam is a furloughed federal employee who works in recreation for the US Forest Service, managing hiking, biking, and equestrian trails in central Idaho. He serves as chapter president of National Federation of Federal Employees Local 1753, and he is an organizer with the Federal Unionists Network. Ellen is a furloughed federal employee who works in SNAP oversight and administration at the USDA Food and Nutrition Service. She serves as chapter president of National Treasury Employees Union Local 255, representing FNS employees at the Northeast regional office, and she is an organizer with the Federal Unionists Network in Boston. April is a furloughed federal employee who works in the office of Head Start at the Administration for Children and Families HQ in Washington, DC. She serves as chapter president of the National Treasury Employees Union Local 250. Additional links/info: Federal Unionists Network website, BlueSky, and Instagram Federal Unionists Network: “Join Us To Defend Public Services!” Luke Broadwater, The New York Times, “The Shutdown Is Stretching On. Trump Doesn't Seem to Mind.” Democracy Now!, “Shadow president: Project 2025 architect Russell Vought is using shutdown to gut federal agencies” Featured Music: Jules Taylor, “Working People” Theme Song Credits: Featured music: Jules Taylor, “Working People” Theme Song Audio Post-Production: Alina Nehlich

The federal government shutdown is now in its fourth week. Over 700,000 federal employees have been furloughed, with nearly as many continuing to work without pay, yet there are still no signs that an end to the shutdown is near. “Unlike past presidents, Mr. Trump appears to feel little urgency to strike a deal to reopen the government,” Luke Broadwater writes at The New York Times. “Instead, he has used the shutdown, which began Oct. 1, as an opportunity to further remake the federal bureaucracy and jettison programs he does not like, seizing on unorthodox budgetary maneuvers that some have called illegal.” In this episode, we speak with three furloughed federal employees about the harm government shutdowns cause working people, and we discuss why this shutdown is different. Guests:Adam is a furloughed federal employee who works in recreation for the US Forest Service, managing hiking, biking, and equestrian trails in central Idaho. He serves as chapter president of National Federation of Federal Employees Local 1753, and he is an organizer with the Federal Unionists Network.Ellen is a furloughed federal employee who works in SNAP oversight and administration at the USDA Food and Nutrition Service. She serves as chapter president of National Treasury Employees Union Local 255, representing FNS employees at the Northeast regional office, and she is an organizer with the Federal Unionists Network in Boston.April is a furloughed federal employee who works in the office of Head Start at the Administration for Children and Families HQ in Washington, DC. She serves as chapter president of the National Treasury Employees Union Local 250.Additional links/info:Federal Unionists Network website, BlueSky, and InstagramFederal Unionists Network: “Join Us To Defend Public Services!”Luke Broadwater, The New York Times, “The Shutdown Is Stretching On. Trump Doesn't Seem to Mind.”Democracy Now!, “Shadow president: Project 2025 architect Russell Vought is using shutdown to gut federal agencies”Featured Music: Jules Taylor, “Working People” Theme SongAudio Post-Production: Alina NehlichBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-real-news-podcast--2952221/support.Help us continue producing radically independent news and in-depth analysis by following us and becoming a monthly sustainer.Follow us on:Bluesky: @therealnews.comFacebook: The Real News NetworkTwitter: @TheRealNewsYouTube: @therealnewsInstagram: @therealnewsnetworkBecome a member and join the Supporters Club for The Real News Podcast today!

In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, Michael Hingson welcomes Karolyn Grimes, best known for her unforgettable role as Zuzu Bailey in Frank Capra's timeless classic It's a Wonderful Life. At 85, Karolyn brings not just cherished memories from Hollywood's Golden Age but profound lessons in faith, resilience, and gratitude that still inspire today. She shares vivid behind-the-scenes stories of working with Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant, John Wayne, and Maureen O'Hara—moments that shaped her life long after the cameras stopped rolling. From learning her lines at six years old to celebrating a surprise birthday on the set of Rio Grande, Karolyn offers a heartfelt glimpse into the wonder and warmth of old Hollywood. But her story reaches far beyond fame. After losing both parents by age fifteen and later enduring the heartbreak of losing her husband and son, Karolyn rediscovered purpose through the enduring message of It's a Wonderful Life. Today, she travels to Seneca Falls, New York—the real-life Bedford Falls—attends festivals, supports the Zuzu House foundation, and co-hosts the Zuzu All Grown Up podcast, continuing to spread the film's message of hope. Michael and Karolyn also share exciting plans for a Richard Diamond, Private Detective radio drama at next year's REPS showcase. Filled with nostalgia, laughter, and heart, this episode reminds us that no matter the season—or the challenges— “It truly is a wonderful life.”   Highlights: 01:24 – Hear how Karolyn's early music and elocution lessons opened doors to a Hollywood career at just six years old. 07:50 – Discover how losing both parents by age fifteen changed her path and led her to a quieter life in Missouri. 14:51 – Learn what it was like to work under Frank Capra's direction and how he brought out the best in young actors. 19:12 – Feel the kindness of Jimmy Stewart as Karolyn recalls a moment when he turned a mistake into encouragement. 27:20 – Relive her birthday surprise on the set of Rio Grande with John Wayne and a cake she'll never forget. 31:29 – Get a candid glimpse of Maureen O'Hara's fiery personality and how it lit up the screen. 47:23 – Walk with Karolyn through Seneca Falls, New York—the real-life inspiration for Bedford Falls—and its annual It's a Wonderful Life festival. 58:27 – See how she keeps the film's spirit alive today through public appearances, the Zuzu House foundation, and her Zuzu All Grown Up podcast.   About the Guest:   Karolyn Grimes is an American actress best remembered for her role as Zuzu Bailey in Frank Capra's timeless film It's a Wonderful Life (1946), where she delivered one of cinema's most cherished lines: “Every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings.” Born in Hollywood, California, in 1940, Grimes began acting as an infant and appeared in 16 films during her childhood, including The Bishop's Wife (1947). Her early career placed her alongside Hollywood legends like James Stewart, Donna Reed, Loretta Young, and David Niven. She later earned honors such as a star on the Missouri Walk of Fame and the Edwin P. Hubble Medal of Initiative for her contributions to film and culture. Grimes' personal story is one of remarkable endurance. Orphaned by age 15, she was sent from Hollywood to rural Missouri to live with strict relatives, yet she persevered and eventually became a medical technologist. Life brought both love and heartbreak—two marriages, seven children, and the tragic loss of her youngest son and husband. In the 1980s, renewed popularity of It's a Wonderful Life reconnected her with fans and co-stars, inspiring her to embrace the film's message of hope. Today, she travels widely to share her memories of the movie, appears annually at the Seneca Falls celebration that inspired Bedford Falls, and continues to spread its enduring message that every life truly matters.   Ways to connect with Karolyn:   podcast site, www.zuzunetwork.com Facebook page Karolyn Grimes, www.zuzu.net     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, a gracious hello to you, wherever you happen to be today, I am your host, Mike or Michael. I don't really care which hingson and you are listening to or watching unstoppable mindset. Today, we get a chance to chat with someone who, well, you may or may not know who she is, you will probably by the time we're done, because I'm going to give you a clue. Probably one of the most famous lines that she ever spoke was, whenever a bell rings, an angel gets its wings. And you are right, if you guessed it, you get to meet Zuzu or Karolyn Grimes. Today, I met Karolyn a few years ago when we were both involved in doing recreations of old radio shows with the radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound, and we have had the opportunity to chat and do things together like other recreations ever since. I'm going to miss, unfortunately, the one in September, because I'm going to be off elsewhere in Texas doing a speech. But what do you do anyway? Karolyn or Zuzu, whichever you prefer, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Karolyn Grimes ** 02:35 I'm so disappointed I don't get to see your dog.   Michael Hingson ** 02:40 Oh, next time. Okay, see we and you know that's the thing Carolyn is, just like everyone else, it's always all about the dog. Forget me. That's okay. It's okay. He loves it.   Karolyn Grimes ** 02:58 Well, I'm sorry you're not coming. Because you know what, I really am going to do a fantastic part that I love, and that's playing Loretta Young's part in the bishop's wife, the bishop's wife, right? Yes, and you're going to miss it. Well, I   Michael Hingson ** 03:14 will probably try to at least listen on the internet and and hear it. I think that'll be fun. It's a it's a great part. Well, you were in the bishop's wife originally, weren't you?   Karolyn Grimes ** 03:25 Yes, I was, who did? Who did you play? I played Little Debbie, who was David Nevin and Loretta Young's little girl, and Cary Grant was an angel who came down to straighten my dad out,   Michael Hingson ** 03:43 and at the end he straightened him out, but there was never any memory of him being there. Was there.   Karolyn Grimes ** 03:50 That's right, he was erased, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 03:56 oh, you know, it's all about doing it, and not about him. So it's okay. I think I thought Cary Grant did a great job. I really always was wonderful, wonderful. What was he like to work with? And what was David Nevin like to work with, much less Loretta Young?   Karolyn Grimes ** 04:13 Well, at the beginning of the movie, they told me not to go near David Nevin. Don't bother him. So I never did. I just had the feeling he didn't like kids or something, I don't know. But Loretta Young was cordial and nice, but she pretty much sat in her chair and studied the script most of the time, so I didn't really get to visit with her all that much, but boy, Cary Grant was hands on. Oh, he was great. He there was a lot of snow in the movie, and there was an ice skating scene, and there was actually an ice rink on our stage. So every day at lunch, he would come and get me and. And he pulled me around on a sled while he practiced ice skating. And that was so much fun,   Michael Hingson ** 05:08 cool. And that was all in Hollywood, right?   05:11 Oh, yes,   Michael Hingson ** 05:15 I, I always found it interesting. We went to see the Rockettes a couple of times at Radio City Music Hall in New York. And it was interesting to see their, quote, ice skating rink, which was, was a very smooth floor and and they could raise it and lower it and all sorts of things. It was. It was kind of fascinating to actually know about that. And I actually got a chance to go look at it was kind of pretty interesting.   Karolyn Grimes ** 05:45 Can you imagine, they actually made a skating rink on stage. I mean, you know, yeah, before miracles.   Michael Hingson ** 05:55 Well, tell us a little bit about, kind of, maybe the early Karolyn growing up, and, you know, how things got started and and what you did a little bit? Well, my   Karolyn Grimes ** 06:04 mother gave me all kinds of lessons. I was an only child, and so when I was about, I guess, three, she started me on the piano, the violin, dancing, which never took singing, and even elocution, diction, everything I had lessons coming out my eyeballs and I played the violin and piano.   Michael Hingson ** 06:30 So did you ever? Did you ever compete with Jack Benny playing the violin? Not hardly just checking.   Karolyn Grimes ** 06:37 I did win a scholarship, though, to go to college on my violin when I was in high school. So, you know, I I played it for a long time, but I didn't play the piano, just I stuck with the violin and I did singing. I did a lot of vocal stuff when I got older, but when I was little, she gave me all these lessons and and I can remember saying, Well, I really don't want to go to school today if I stay at home and I practice my elocution, or I practice this, or practice my piano or whatever, well, then could I stay home and she let me stay home from school so I would practice.   Michael Hingson ** 07:21 Yeah. Did you ever   Karolyn Grimes ** 07:23 go ahead? That's fine, that's all.   Michael Hingson ** 07:26 Did you ever ask her or ever learn why she was so adamant that you took all these kinds of lessons when you were young and so on, as opposed to just going to school and so on. Well,   Karolyn Grimes ** 07:38 unfortunately, she started getting sick when I was eight years old. And, you know, I was too young to think about asking questions like that, you know. And then she died when I was 14. So that was kind of the end of my career, for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 07:55 Well, yeah, and sort of it was but, but you never really did learn why she was so so steadfast in her beliefs that you had to take all of those lessons.   Karolyn Grimes ** 08:07 I had no idea, because when she started getting sick, she had early onset Alzheimer's, and so, you know she wasn't, you couldn't communicate.   Michael Hingson ** 08:18 Really, yeah, yeah. And it was only when you were old enough that that started. So, yeah, you really couldn't get a lot of information and do a lot of communicating. I understand that. No, and you didn't have much time after that to really talk to your father about it either. No, I didn't.   Karolyn Grimes ** 08:41 He died a year after she did. And I was 15, and the court in Hollywood shipped me to a little town in Missouri. I think there were 700 people in the town, or something like that. Yeah. So it's quite a culture shock, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Get me out of Hollywood was great.   Michael Hingson ** 09:01 So what did you do then? So you were now 15, and they sent you off to Missouri. Why Missouri?   Karolyn Grimes ** 09:09 Well, those were the only people who volunteered to take me. I had a lot of people in LA, where I lived, who would have taken me, but my father didn't leave a will. So when I asked the judge, I said, Do I have any say at all about who I go to live with? And he said, whatever you want is like a drop in the bucket. So needless to say, my mean aunt and uncle took me back to Missouri, in a little town, but it was like, I say the best thing ever happened to me, because they're real people. They weren't phony. They were they were serious and and they were loving and kind, and they realized I was in a. Horrible home situation. So they really my teachers and merchants, everybody knew, and they really made up for that. They made my life livable and that I will never forget it, and I will always love that town, because   Michael Hingson ** 10:19 what town was it? Osceola,   Karolyn Grimes ** 10:21 Missouri. Oh, Osceola. Okay, I've heard of it. 800 people in there or something.   Michael Hingson ** 10:27 You said they were your mean aunt and uncle. Why did you Why do you call them mean?   Karolyn Grimes ** 10:34 My uncle wasn't mean, but he was beaten down by his wife. She would her. Her best ploy would be to if I did something wrong, she would punish other people. And that was worse than punishing you. Yeah. So it was very, very hard to not do something wrong, because I kind of seemed like I did all the time.   Michael Hingson ** 11:05 Yeah, you didn't know what the rules were. No, yeah, that that made it, made it very tough. So what did you do once you went back there? I assume you went to, you finished school.   Karolyn Grimes ** 11:21 Yes, I finished school, and then I went to college. Where did you go? Well, it was called Central Missouri State at that time, and it was the home of the mules. And of course, my major was music, so that was what I did, mostly with my life, but I ended up going into science and I became medical technologist.   Michael Hingson ** 11:46 Uh huh, well, the mules, so you majored in music. Did you get any advanced degree or just get a bachelor's?   Karolyn Grimes ** 11:57 No, okay, I changed everything and decided that I need to make money instead, to survive,   Michael Hingson ** 12:05 yeah, you got to do some of that kind of stuff. Yeah, you do. It's one of those, those things that happens. So what did you do after college?   Karolyn Grimes ** 12:13 I got a job working for medical office in was kind of a clinic in Kansas City, Missouri, okay? And I spent probably 15 years there, maybe, maybe more I remember for sure, and that's, that's what I did. Then after that, I retired and raised a bunch of kids.   Michael Hingson ** 12:42 Well, that's a worthwhile endeavor.   12:46 It's stressful.   Michael Hingson ** 12:50 Well, you know, but as long as they don't call you mean, then that probably counts for something.   Karolyn Grimes ** 12:56 Yeah, they didn't call me mean. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 13:00 there you are. So you you did all of your your acting and movies and so on, kind of at a younger age, you didn't go back into doing any of that. No, I   Karolyn Grimes ** 13:11 didn't, but I did get active in the theater scene in the Kansas City area. So I did quite a few plays, and I had a really good time doing that. Okay, only problem with that is you have to memorize so much.   Michael Hingson ** 13:27 Yeah, you can't use cue cards and you can't use a script,   Karolyn Grimes ** 13:30 yeah? So I tried to work and do that, yeah, it's kind of tough, but I did. I the last one I did. I think I was 40 something, but it was fun. I loved it.   Michael Hingson ** 13:44 So what, what kind of maybe famous plays were you in?   Karolyn Grimes ** 13:49 Not famous? They were small ones. And honestly, I can't even remember what they were. I it's in my mind, one, the last one was musical, and it was kind of a Western. I can't remember what it was to save my soul, but that's, that's privilege of getting old.   Michael Hingson ** 14:09 Yeah, you never know. You might remember one of these days,   Karolyn Grimes ** 14:14 yeah, oh, I will, I'm sure, probably about an hour from now.   Michael Hingson ** 14:18 Yeah. Well, so going back earlier, what was the first movie you were in   Karolyn Grimes ** 14:27 that night with you, and that starred, Oh, see, there goes. My mind again. It was an opera singer. Can't think of Suzanne, York, oh, okay, and it had Irene Ryan, who was in the hillbillies. She was a maid. And it was, it was a Christmas scene, or it was section of the movie where I was one of. Five orphans that were sent. This opera singer wanted us to give us a Christmas night. We were from an orphanage, and so she had us come. We were going to spend the night, and she had presents for us and all that sort of thing. And the first thing I did was break an ornament on the Christmas tree. Oh, dear. Ah, so the kids got mad at me, because they knew we were going to be sent back to the orphanage. But anyway, in the end, she held me on her lap and sang a lullaby to me, and I will always remember that.   Michael Hingson ** 15:39 Yeah, you mentioned Irene, Ryan, granny, which was, yeah, she was in. She played a maid. What a character she   15:46 was. She was a maid.   Michael Hingson ** 15:50 Then what did you do after that movie? How old were you for that movie? I was four. You're four. So you do remember it sort of, yeah.   Karolyn Grimes ** 16:01 Just don't remember names particularly. I mean, yeah, but you were really funny about it that the there was one agent, pretty much, that had all the kids in her stable that worked in the movies back then. It was an easy thing, and she had Jimmy Hawkins, who was Tommy, and it's a wonderful life. And she also had his older brother, and his older brother was in that particular movie with me, so it was kind of a family affair all every time you went to an audition or an interview you saw the same kids over and over.   Michael Hingson ** 16:49 Well, how did you end up then being in It's a Wonderful Life. What? What did they what does it think and decide that you were the person for   Karolyn Grimes ** 17:01 it. Well, nothing really special. You know, I went on the interview back in the day. They didn't have what they do today. They had interviews where you went, and you had a one on one situation. Maybe five or six us girls would go to the interview, and then they'd bring another batch in, and that's kind of how it went. And most of us, as I say, had the same agent, so we, my mother took me to the interview, to the and it's like, it's not like an audition, it's an interview, and you actually go in and talk to casting director. And you know, you know, do what they tell you to do. So in this particular interview, there was a little girl who accidentally spilled some coffee on my dress. Her mother's coffee on my dress, because so back then, we all wore dresses, and I just didn't think a thing about it didn't bother me to have a dirty dress. I just I went in and did my interview. When I went in there, I meant Frank Capra was in, ah, and he interviewed and and cast every single person in that film, even the extras. That's how precise he was. But I went in there, and I remember he asked me how I would look, how I would act if I lost my dog and he died. I gave him my spiel, all with a dirty dress, but didn't bother me a bit. Came out, and then when we were leaving, I heard my mother mentioned to one of the other mothers that she felt like that, that girl's mother had had her spilling on purpose so they would intimidate me. But I didn't know it. I didn't realize it, and didn't bother me a bit.   Michael Hingson ** 19:11 What did you say when Frank Capra asked me that question? Do you remember?   Karolyn Grimes ** 19:16 Well, I I didn't say anything.   Michael Hingson ** 19:20 I just looked, no, I mean, about the dog?   Karolyn Grimes ** 19:22 Well, I just looked, oh, you know, yeah, squeezed up kind of teared, and was unhand picked. That was, you know, there was no line involved. It was just that, well, she must ask the other lines, but I don't remember, I just remember that.   Michael Hingson ** 19:46 So what was he like to work with?   Karolyn Grimes ** 19:49 He was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. He would get down on his knees so that he could communicate with those kids. And I. I thought that was really great, and I'm sure you got a lot more out of us by doing that. Rather than looking down on us and telling us what he wanted   Michael Hingson ** 20:09 us to do, he made you feel like a part of it all.   Karolyn Grimes ** 20:13 Yes, he did. He gave us a lot of power that way.   Michael Hingson ** 20:17 Yeah, and what was it like working with Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed.   Karolyn Grimes ** 20:22 Well, you know, I didn't have any scenes with Donna Reed, except that being the movie, that's true. I didn't have any interaction with her. I had no lines. I don't even remember Donna Reed, but he was my focal point. Jimmy Stewart was fabulous. He was kind, considerate, and I fluffed a line in the pedal scene, and he said that, that's all right, Carolyn, you'll get it right next time. And it was things like that, you know, that made a difference between, if you messed up online, where they would get aggravated with you, and then you probably mess it up again. But he did the right thing. He made me not feel bad about it, and encouraged me to do it again.   Michael Hingson ** 21:17 It's, it's interesting, and it, it's a great lesson to you know, to point out that when when people help empower and they aren't negative and are encouraging no matter what you're doing, that counts for a lot. And I I find that when I encounter people who just decide they're going to be mean because they got to boss you around and do all sorts of obnoxious things to try to intimidate you and so on. In the long run, that is just so unproductive, it seems to me.   Karolyn Grimes ** 21:49 Yes, I agree. I don't see what it accomplishes.   Michael Hingson ** 21:53 Yeah, so I can appreciate what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense. Well, I'm glad, and I always thought that Jimmy Stewart was that kind of a person, both he and Cary Grant both seemed sensitive, really concerned about people succeeding. They weren't jerks.   Karolyn Grimes ** 22:13 No, they weren't. And caught up with him later in life, he was getting calls from a lot of people about whatever happened to that little girl. And so he had one of his secretaries Call Me and find Me and and he called me and we had chat. And here I am in Missouri. He's in Hollywood. That was pretty cool when you're 40 years old. When that was the first year I ever saw the movie after I talked to him. So that was kind of how it went. But then after that, I met him in New York at a function, and we spent some time together, and he was delightful, so kind, so   Michael Hingson ** 23:01 generous. I remember when I first saw part of It's a Wonderful Life. It was back in the day when there was regular television. Then there was UHF, which was everything above, basically channel 13. And you had to have special at that time receivers to receive it. And one day I was, I just come home from high school, from classes, and I turned on the television, and it was a UHF channel, and I started scrolling across, and all of a sudden I heard Jimmy Stewart's voice, and I went, What's that? And it took me a couple of minutes of listening to it to figure out what the movie was, because I had heard about it enough that I I figured it out, but I listened to about half the movie, and then later I found the whole movie and watched it. And of course, also since then, I have had the opportunity to listen to radio broadcasts of it, like Lux radio theater and so on, where, where they did it. But I remember it well, yes, so did you do much of anything in in radio?   Karolyn Grimes ** 24:13 Then? Not really, not really. I can remember being on the radio for the opening night of the bishop's club. That was really exciting.   Michael Hingson ** 24:28 It's a lot of interesting movies back then. You know, It's a Wonderful Life The Bishop's wife in 1947 also, there was Miracle on 34th Street that people thought was never going to go anywhere. And it and also,   Karolyn Grimes ** 24:43 I'm sorry, still alive today, it   Michael Hingson ** 24:46 is and, and it's a classic. All three of them are classics and, and should be, right? So what did you do after the bishop's wife, from movie standpoint?   Karolyn Grimes ** 24:59 Oh. Um, I think I really don't remember exactly, but I did some movies that were westerns, and I really liked those. They were really fun. I did Rio Grande John Wayne and off Scott and I did honey child with Judy Canova.   Michael Hingson ** 25:28 I'll bet that was a   25:29 was a hoot. It was a hoot. What   Michael Hingson ** 25:33 was Judy Canova like?   Karolyn Grimes ** 25:36 Well, she was really nice. I played her niece, and I lived with her, and she was very nice. It's like that this particular movie, her mother had just died, so she was kind of not all happy, herself, still mourning, but she was very nice and considerate. And you know, she's the one that's saying, I'll be coming around when I come. Yeah, she'll be coming around the corner when she comes. That was what I always remembered her for, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 26:15 Oh, she was always quite the character.   Karolyn Grimes ** 26:18 Oh, she was and she though she had that voice that was unusual.   Michael Hingson ** 26:27 So what? What did you do? What was your role in Rio Grande with John Wayne and marine O'Hara?   Karolyn Grimes ** 26:39 I was the school teacher's daughter, and we lived on a fort. We were in Moab, you daughter? Film it. Yeah, we lived on a fort. And I, my uncle was Victor McLachlan. And so the Indians came and raided us, and he they saved us and put us in a wagon to send us off to be safe. But the Indians got us and killed my mom and put us in the top of a Chapel Church, and that's where we were. And so they the three of the the people, I can't think of their names again. That's problem for me names, but I'll think of them eventually. They rescued us kids, and Victor McLachlan came to get me when the Calvary had gotten there, and I'm on a plat, kind of a platform, ringing the bell. I was ringing a bell throughout this movie, and I hit a bell. I hit Harry Carey Junior over the head with a bell. I always had a bell, so I'm ringing this giant bell to say it's okay for the Calgary to come in. And Vic McLachlan had to pull me off the platform and get me out the door and into a wagon to be rescued, because all his kids were being rescued. And so when he pulled me off that platform, I had this little dress on, and I got a big bad splinter in my bottom. Oh, gosh, it was horrible. It hurt so bad I was going to say, I bet it did. You can never show anything like that. So I did not show it. I just jumped off into his arms, and that was it.   Michael Hingson ** 28:44 Well, I would presume they eventually got the splitter out. Well, my   Karolyn Grimes ** 28:48 mom did, yeah, those things happen.   Michael Hingson ** 28:53 So what was it like working with John Wayne and Marie? No Hara, what both, what characters they are? Oh,   Karolyn Grimes ** 29:02 yeah. Well, John Wayne was just a booming voice. Yeah, he was a huge figure. He I didn't really have any relationship with him, but I had a birthday in the Fourth of July while I was there, ah, and the Korean flicked. Had just broken out. It was 1950 and the government had commandeered airplanes, so John Wayne managed to have airplane bring in a bunch of supplies, and it was one of them was a big, giant birthday cake for me, and bunch of fireworks. He had $300 worth of fireworks, and so we he threw me a party out on Colorado River bluffs, and we had glass. Do is really so funny. Said Happy birthday Little Miss Carolyn and Pat way and his son, who's my age, was out there too. He was he and Michael on school break for summer, and so they were part of the film. He was my age, so we hung around a lot. We were kind of upset because all we got to do with all those fireworks, two little sparklers, what   Michael Hingson ** 30:32 was marine O'Hara like?   Karolyn Grimes ** 30:38 I guess maybe she and Mr. Ford didn't get along very well, and she had a temper. He had a   Michael Hingson ** 30:47 temper, an Irish temper, yes, yes.   Karolyn Grimes ** 30:50 And I saw a lot of that. And one particular time we were in, they had a limo that would take us from the motel to the set which was on the Colorado River, and it was on this person's ranch. So we go down this terribly dangerous road to go to his ranch. At least it was dangerous to me. I was scared, definitely going to Fall River, yeah, because it was right on the edge. But she was angry, and we were in this limo, and she was with her hairdresser. They were in the front row, and my mother and I were in the back of the limo. She was cursing and carrying on about mister Ford, and I didn't pay any attention to it. And so her hairdresser said, Miss O'Hara, there's, there's a little girl in the back. She just kept right on going. But when she said that, I started paying attention what she was in and she was just a string of curses. It was so bad, she was so angry, and it was so funny. So she didn't, it didn't bother her to swear in front of the little child.   Michael Hingson ** 32:14 Just think how much language and how much elocution you learned, huh? Oh no, I did because, oh   Karolyn Grimes ** 32:19 yeah, potential, until she said that, then I listened.   Michael Hingson ** 32:25 Just rounded out your vocabulary. Oh,   Karolyn Grimes ** 32:28 yes, I've never heard words like that, and   Michael Hingson ** 32:32 probably never did again, no, than the ones you used, but, you know, but still. Oh, that's, that's pretty cool, though. So, did you ever have any kind of an opportunity to reunite and be with all of the Bailey family again from the movie?   Karolyn Grimes ** 32:53 Yes, in 1993 or four? Wow. It was quite a while, 60 years later, yeah, um, I had already been in contact with little Tommy. We've been conversing on a phone for about five years, but the target tour had, It's a Wonderful Life is a sort of a theme in their stores that year, and so they thought it would be a good ploy to have a reunion with the Bailey kids. So they brought us all together and put us on a tour. And that was when we all met up again, and I was so excited to do it, and that's the first time I actually saw people's response to this movie. We were in an autographed line at some of the targets that we went to, and people would come through the line and they share their stories about how the movie had affected their lives, and I was so impressed. I well, I just couldn't forget it. And so from that time forward, I became very enamored of sharing messages with other people, and I started doing various appearances and things like that.   Michael Hingson ** 34:23 Yeah. So what other kinds of appearances have you done?   Karolyn Grimes ** 34:28 Oh my gosh, I couldn't even begin to tell you lots. Well, that's good. All different kinds. I mean, you know, all different kinds.   34:38 Have you had   34:40 Go ahead. Thanks.   Michael Hingson ** 34:43 Have you had any or any significant number of appearances and interviews on television over the years?   Karolyn Grimes ** 34:50 No, just interviews, lots of interviews, live interviews. Yeah, yes, that's all never involved with anything again. And, but, yeah, I think I might do something kind of fun in September   Michael Hingson ** 35:08 March or in in Washington.   Karolyn Grimes ** 35:11 No, no, what in Ireland?   Michael Hingson ** 35:15 In Ireland, be gosh and be Garda. Yes, what are you going to   Karolyn Grimes ** 35:19 do? They're going, they're filming movie about Jimmy Stewart. Oh, and they want me to do a cameo. Well, cool. Isn't that fun?   Michael Hingson ** 35:31 That'll be exciting. Yes, I'm really excited. Wow. So long later. I, yeah, you know, I, I, I've seen, of course, movies with Jimmy Stewart, and I remember seeing him once on The Tonight Show, Later in the period of The Tonight Show and so on. And I'm not sure how long after that, he he passed, but I remember his his appearance, which was kind of fun.   Karolyn Grimes ** 35:59 Did you happen to hear him when he did the poem about his dog bull.   Michael Hingson ** 36:04 Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. That's the one I saw   Karolyn Grimes ** 36:07 that was so tender and true. It was just really something.   Michael Hingson ** 36:13 And the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson was such a wonderful show. I watched reruns of it regularly on some of the channels, and I just think that it's so much more fun than a lot of what we see in late night TV. Today, I do miss Johnny Carson. Yes, did you ever, did you ever meet him?   Karolyn Grimes ** 36:32 No, I didn't.   Michael Hingson ** 36:38 Well still, I remember old Bo   Karolyn Grimes ** 36:43 Yes, he was a wonderful man. Yeah, they did a special thing in 19 a, 1990 it was they had a special event that was honoring him and all the people that he worked with, Allison, you know, all the stars that he'd work with. And so he invited me to come. So I went to New York, and I just had a really wonderful time about to meet his wife, and it was just good old fun just to see him again, because he was just such a down to earth man, yeah, and he just was so kind and so generous that it was a real, real exciting moment For me, that's for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 37:40 I watch him occasionally now, because he is regular, not regularly, but he's often on the Jack Benny show. And the Jack Benny show is being run on a couple on some of the TV stations, and so it's kind of fun to see the by play between he and his wife and Jack Benny. And, of course, Jack Benny, it's the traditional Jack Benny image. But the shows are so much fun, yes? And clearly, Jimmy Stewart, well, all of them have a lot of fun doing those shows.   Karolyn Grimes ** 38:17 Yeah, I think they did. Yeah. Those old radio shows were so great. I really enjoyed them back in the day well.   Michael Hingson ** 38:29 And I find that when people really enjoy what they do, and you see that come out in even on some of the earlier television shows, with the radio shows, it makes such a difference, because you can feel the energy that's coming from people.   Karolyn Grimes ** 38:48 You do. You really do.   Michael Hingson ** 38:52 If people don't enjoy what they're doing, that comes through. And you you can tell so it's it's fun, when people really enjoy it. Well, how did you get involved with the Marshfield Cherry Blossom Festival? You've been doing that for a while,   Karolyn Grimes ** 39:14 a long years, more than I true. Well, Nicholas called me. He runs the festival. I can't tell you what year it was, but it probably was early 80s. Maybe, wow, no, wouldn't have been early 80s. Sorry, no. Probably in early 2000 okay? And he called me and asked me if I would come down and be in the festival. So I said, Okay, and so. We flew back and went to the festival, and it was Dean Martin's daughter was there, and one of the Munchkins was there. Can't think of his name. One lived in St Louis, character. He was there. Couple of other people that were there, you know, old stars, and it rained, it snowed, and it was just, it was awful. It sweeted. It was just really bad. So there wasn't much of a turnout, and it was kind of a disappointment to Nicholas, I think because it since then they've changed the date, so it's a little later in the year. And yeah, you know, kind of count on the weather being a little better. But then I didn't come back for about two years, and then he called me King, and from that time forward, I went back every year, and one of the special things that happened by being there was that the lady who played violet bit, young, Violet bit, she can't think of her name, but I'm really bad At names today. Yeah, way she she was a psychologist, and for the last, oh, I guess long, maybe eight years before I met her, Jimmy Hawkins, the littlest boy in the movie, and myself, had tried to get her involved with the film, and what the things that we did for the film, and she wouldn't have anything to do with it, because she thought it was Hollywood, and she didn't believe in that, and this was the only movie she did. So someone by the name of Nicholas convinced her to come that year. So she came, and she her son brought her, and when she saw how much that movie is loved and how it had affected so many people and their story, she got the first hand view of that that was then for her. She decided she wanted to be a part of It's a Wonderful Life from then on, did they   Michael Hingson ** 42:27 show the movie that you're at the festival? No, oh, okay,   Karolyn Grimes ** 42:32 no, she just came,   Michael Hingson ** 42:34 and so many people just talked about it.   Karolyn Grimes ** 42:37 Yeah, yeah. She she finally realized that people really loved the movie. Of course, she saw it after that, because after that little appearance, I say you're coming to Seneca Falls. I won't take no for an answer. So her son brought her every year after that, and of course, we saw the movie dead, and she had experienced the real love that the people had for the film and for the characters in the film.   Michael Hingson ** 43:12 What was it like being around and working with Lionel Barrymore,   Karolyn Grimes ** 43:20 well, I really wasn't around him very much. We had cast fish shoes sometimes, and he he was in his he was really in a wheelchair. He had crippling arthritis. It's terrible. His hands are all gnarled. And I really didn't talk to him or having any interaction with him. I might have been in scene with him, or we've done publicity photos with him, but I don't, I don't remember ever   Michael Hingson ** 43:50 interacting with him, with him that much, yeah,   Karolyn Grimes ** 43:53 but he wasn't scary, yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 43:57 Well, that's a start. Not, not like marine O'Hara huh?   Karolyn Grimes ** 44:01 No, no. And they had a cast party at the end of movie. Most movies after they're finished, had a cast party, uh huh? This one was celebrating the end of its wonderful life. And so he, he came and I got to talk to him without, you know, he had a skull cap on, and it raised his forehead about two inches, so he had real elongated, big forehead, and took more hair off his head, so he looked meaner. That was the idea. So he didn't have that on you just look like a normal man and everything, and he didn't look mean. And so I chatted with him. He was fine. He wasn't really a nice guy.   Michael Hingson ** 44:51 Again, it's one of those things where he was perfect for that part, though.   Karolyn Grimes ** 44:55 Oh yes, he was perfect. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 45:00 It was, it was fun. And I, I think, at the time, when I first saw the movie, I didn't even know that he was the person who played Mr. Potter, but I didn't, I didn't realize that because I was young enough, but I hadn't really learned about different characters and and different actors, but I figured it out soon enough. Yeah, so tell me about Zuzu house back there.   Karolyn Grimes ** 45:30 Well, one night I was writing in a limo, and it was during the Christmas season. I was somewhere in New York, and I can't remember where I was doing a gig, and Nicholas called me, and I'll always remember it, because I was sitting in this room all and he said, Carolyn, I just discovered there are people in this community. This is very small town. Well, it's a small town, and there are people who young people who don't have a place to sleep. They're sleeping on park benches. There's this couch surfing, all this chippy said I had no idea this was going on. I want us to start a house and make it possible for them to have shelter. And so he said, The reason I'm calling you is because I want to know if it's alright if I name it the Zuzu house. So I said, Well, of course, go right ahead. So from then on, I became active with the Zuzu house and their foundation and their situation, all that they do. Unfortunately, covid happened right after that, and it made it really hard to get, you know, materials, building materials, and things like that that we needed to finish it. So it took a long time to finish the house, but it's finished now, and it houses now. It houses is us refuse for women from mean men, I guess, and that's what it is. So I'm proud to be part of it, and they did such a fabulous job. It's a great, wonderful, beautiful facility, and it's way out in the country, and it's really a place where they can get their marbles all on sack again.   Michael Hingson ** 47:33 How far is it from Marshfield? Um, I didn't get to go there when I was there last year.   Karolyn Grimes ** 47:40 My guess is about 30 minutes. Oh, okay.   Michael Hingson ** 47:47 Well, now the the the other question I would ask is, as you pointed out, the reason that the women are there, so do you go and teach them elocution, like how Marino Hara talk so that they can, yeah, I just just say, help them out, you know,   Karolyn Grimes ** 48:08 yeah, I learned a lot there.   Michael Hingson ** 48:12 But yeah, that that's really cool, that that you, you do that. Well, tell me about Seneca Falls, or, should we say, Bedford Falls, and what goes on there, and, yes, what you do and so on. I'll always think of it just Bedford Falls, but   Karolyn Grimes ** 48:27 most people do,   Michael Hingson ** 48:29 as opposed to potters field, you know. But yeah,   Karolyn Grimes ** 48:34 about seeing my this is my 23rd year. So 23 years ago, God, I can't believe it's that long. I knew cameraman on the Oprah show. It's very good friend of mine. And so it was September, and he called me and he said, Oh my god, Carolyn, this is it. This is the town you've got to come here. You've got to come He says, I'm going to go talk to somebody. And that was the last I heard. But he talked to somebody, the right person who knew what it was about and saw the possibilities. And so her name was mo cock at the time. Her name is Young. Now mo young, but she went to the Historical Society and got funding and turned it around real fast so that they could create an event for me to come and appear. So I did, and I landed in Rochester, I believe what drove to Seneca Falls, and it was snowing, and I there was no one on the streets. There was no one around. And she drive, drove up to the Main Street and open. The car door. When we just walked on Main Street, the bridge was there. It was all lit up, yeah, lit up on each post, lamp post. And it was the most wonderful experience, because I really felt like this was the place, if Frank Kaplan wanted to see a place that would inspire him to build bamboo falls, this would be the place to come. And I was so impressed. And I just loved it. So I came back every year after that, yeah, and, and then I started inviting other people like Jimmy Hawkins and Jamie, who Carol Coombs, who played Jamie, and, you know, other people. And so it was very neat event. And I even invited the babies who played Larry, the oldest boy in the movie. You know, they have a they have to have twins to play babies, because they can't be under the lights so long. So they rotate them. And so that was, that was really kind of incredible, too. Now, it's a huge affair and it   Michael Hingson ** 51:21 never had anything to do with the movie originally, right?   Karolyn Grimes ** 51:25 We're not sure. I actually think that Frank Capra had an aunt in Aurora, which is south of that town, and there's a barber there that he swears that he cut Capra's hair, and when I first started going there, what, 20 years ago, he was still alive. So I talked to him, and I said, Do you really think that was Frank Capra? And he said, Yes, I do. I really do. And he said, You know, I cut his hair, and I will always remember we chatted, and he said he was from Sicily, and I was from Sicily too, so we had a lot of calm. And he said his last name was Capra, and it means goat in Italian. And Tommy's name, the barber's name is bellissimo, which means beautiful. So he said, I always remember cutting the goat's hair. Wow, I saw three weeks later in a newspaper, there was an article about him going to make the movie. It's a wonderful love. So he said I knew that was who he was, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 52:54 so he had clearly been there, and imagery made such an impression on him,   Karolyn Grimes ** 53:03 and also on the bridge, there's a plaque, and he would have seen this, and it was for a young Italian immigrant. And of course, you know, capper was strong Italian. And this young Italian immigrant didn't know how to swim, but he jumped in the canal to save the life of a wasp woman who was committing suicide, and he made her her get out of our she got out of the water safely, and he died, he didn't know how to swim. So it was a huge thing back then, and it brought the community together. You know, there was the Italian side and and the the other side. And this brought everybody together. And it, it turned out that the they brought the whole family, his whole family, over, because they were, you know, what, wanted to do something, because they appreciated what he'd done so much to say that woman's life. And so I think camper would have seen that and that plaque, and he would have learned a story, and maybe that gave him some ideas about It's A Wonderful Life.   Michael Hingson ** 54:28 I don't know a lot about Frank Capra, but it's fascinating to hear the stories that you're telling, because it it certainly portrays him as a not only a caring person, but a person who pays attention to a lot of detail. The very fact that that he was in that town, and all the imagery and all the things that he brought to it had to, had to be very relevant. Well, all   Karolyn Grimes ** 54:56 the names of the streets in the town are. The movie, or, you know, quite a few of them, yeah, and the main street had a part of it at that time that had trees down the middle of it. And there's just so many things in in the town that are applicable to the film. And I used to know tons more when I was trying to convince everybody that this was the place. But now I don't have to remember those anymore, because people already know there are 1000s and 1000s of people that go through the town and feel the magic that now then we, we the gift shop is making it possible for people to remember their loved ones by putting bells on the bridge. And it's really, you know, become something. And then the museum, which I helped start, is really a cool museum, but they are getting a new museum, which is going to be much larger because they can't even begin to display all the things they have.   Michael Hingson ** 56:14 Well, it's, it's, it's interesting how all of this has has come up, but none of the filming of the movie was was done there. It was all in Hollywood, right? Oh, yes, but, but still, the the imagery and the vision that that people have, that brought you and everyone together to create that celebration is certainly great for the town. I love that one is it? I'm just going to have to show up. It's a Christmas event every year, right?   Karolyn Grimes ** 56:47 Yes, yeah. There's a 5k run, and they start on the bridge. And there's a few serious people in the beginning, some fellas and gals that want to win. But after that, let me tell you, it's fun. There are people dressed like Christmas trees. They got lights all over themselves. They they light up their dogs, their babies, their strollers, and they're all in this run, and it's five miles. And at some of the they go through the residential district, and some of the houses they have the booths give them a little bit of hot toddy and so forth to get them on   Michael Hingson ** 57:29 the way. Yeah, in Christmas time, I would think so it's just   Karolyn Grimes ** 57:33 a lot of fun. And people love it. And I always started every time they have it. I've always started it, so that's kind of a tradition.   Michael Hingson ** 57:46 So you have done some cameos, like Gremlins and Christmas vacation, right? Well, yeah, cameo appearances,   Karolyn Grimes ** 57:55 yeah, I guess you say that, yeah. What was that like? Well, it's, it was just, you know, the movie they showed the movie, yeah, so that was, that was all. It was just, they showed the movie just like they showed it in Christmas vacation. And somehow, when they show the movie, it's always when Zuzu is saying that line. Oh,   Michael Hingson ** 58:21 okay, so it's not so much you as it is the the original movie, yeah, it's little Zuzu well, but it's a great line. I mean, you know, well, it is. I remember last year, wasn't it? I think at the reps event. We'll get to that in a sec. But I remember getting some bells from you, and I actually, I think I told you I was going to send one to my cousin, and I let you say hello to her, and she got that bell and was completely blown away. She loves it. Oh, good. And I have the bell. I have my bell sitting out in open plain sight for the world to see, and I go by and ring it every so often. Oh, great. Oh, well, we gotta have those angels out. So what kind of events and things do you do typically, or do you like to to enjoy doing it Christmas?   Karolyn Grimes ** 59:20 Um, I kind of work during Christmas. Well, that's my season, and so I do gift shows. I do appearances, I introduce the movie. I do I'm on the road the whole time, and I love it, because I interact with these wonderful people who love the movie. And if they love the movie, believe me, they are wonderful people.   Michael Hingson ** 59:45 Yeah, undoubtedly, so well, so you you also have been involved with some of the radio recreations from from reps. And what do you think about that? How do you like that? Do.   Karolyn Grimes ** 59:59 Oh, my goodness, so much fun. And I'm old enough to remember a   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:04 lot of the shows.   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:00:07 No, I remember very well. And, you know, I it was just a whole bunch of fun to do that and recreate these scenes from older raining days. And I remember my mother and father bought a brand new Frazier. It's a car, and I'm sure nobody's ever heard of Kaiser Fraser cars, because that was the ugliest name car in my life. But they had to have that car. And I remember when we got the car, my dad was offered he could either have a heater and he could afford to pay for either a heater or a radio. And he chose the radio. So I heard inner sanctum. I heard all these wonderful, wonderful plays. Back in the day, all these shows from the radio.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:07 I came in near the the so called traditional end of radio, probably actually 1957 so I had five years, but almost from the beginning, I always wanted to collect more of the shows and did, and then also did a radio program for six and a half, almost seven years at the campus radio station where I worked, kuci. We did radio every Sunday night, so I had three hours of radio. And I love to tell people I heard about this show on television called 60 minutes. But my show was opposite Mike Wallace, and mine went for three hours, and his was only an hour, but it was like seven years before I got to watch 60 minutes and and learn about it, because we had shows every year or every every Sunday night, and we had a deputy sheriff who called from the Orange County jail once to tell me. He said, You know, you guys have created a real challenge for us, because he said, so many people have heard about what you do, some of a lot of our inmates, that on Sunday nights, we have to split the jail and send half people up, half the people upstairs, where there's enough radio reception, they can listen to your show, and the other half listens to and watches 60 minutes, which I always thought was kind of cute. So you do a podcast now too, don't you?   1:02:34 I do tell us   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:36 about that. I know we were focused on it. Yeah,   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:02:39 Chris and I do it. He's He's a psychologist, and we interview all kinds of people, all walks of life, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:51 How long has it been running now,   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:02:54 this is second year, okay,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:57 well, I don't know. Chris hasn't said a single word during this whole thing.   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:01 Oh, he's not here. What good is he, you know, right?   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:09 Well, so you know, we've been, can you believe what we've been doing? This an hour?   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:14 Oh, really, I did not know. I'm   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:18 telling you, time flies when you're having fun. Is there kind of anything that you want to talk about that maybe we haven't yet, any any last questions or thoughts that you have that you want to bring up?   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:31 No, I don't think so. I think we've covered it pretty good. We've, we've,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:37 we've done a lot. But you know, it's really wonderful to to have you on if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:45 They can reach me at Carolyn, K, A R, o l, y n, dot Wilkerson, W, I, L, k, e r, s o n@gmail.com,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:01 okay. Well, hopefully people will reach out, and if they want to also have a website, I was going to ask   1:04:10 you that zoo, zoo.net,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:12 well, you can't do better than that. And what's the podcast called   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:04:22 seeing this is the thing with names. There it goes again. You think, I know? Oh, my goodness, I can't remember. Oh, tell you, I'm getting old. It's getting worse and worse.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:36 All grown up is the puppy. All grown up, all grown ups. Oh, Carolyn, Carol, well, there you go. Well, yeah, and I, I enjoyed being on it. Well, I'm sorry we're going to miss seeing you at reps, because I won't be able to be there. I had told Walden, and walden's actually been on unstoppable mindset now a couple of. On, but I had told him he and I had talked about me doing Richard diamond private detective and actually playing Richard diamond. And I said, I want Carolyn to play Helen Asher. So we'll now have to postpone, postpone that till next year,   1:05:14 but we're going to do it. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:17 yeah. It'll be fun. I Richard diamond has always been kind of really my favorite radio show, and I think I can carry off that voice pretty well.   Karolyn Grimes ** 1:05:27 So it'll be fun. Yeah, it will well.   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:30 I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening to us today, reminisce and talk about all sorts of stuff. Love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and, of course, wherever you're observing the podcast today, I hope that you'll give us a five star rating. Karolyn deserves a five star rating, even if you don't think I do do it for Karolyn. We love to have great reviews. We appreciate it. And Karolyn for you and everyone out there who is listening and watching. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, we'd love it if you'd reach out and let us know, give us an introduction. I think everyone has a story to tell, and I enjoy getting the opportunity to to visit with people and hear stories. So please, if you have any thoughts, introduce us. We'd love to to meet other people. But again, Karolyn, I really appreciate you being here, and I want to thank you for being with us today.   1:06:38 My pleasure being here.   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:42 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Small business owners are feeling LESS optimistic amid uncertainty over tariffs, the shutdown, and more. We break it all down with Leah Long, Director of the Louisiana chapter of the National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB)

Ever wonder why Bob Hope still lands with new audiences today? I sit down with Bill Johnson, a gifted Bob Hope tribute artist who grew up in Wichita and found his way from dinner theater to USO stages around the world. We talk about radio roots, World War II entertainment, and how “history with humor” keeps veterans' stories alive. You'll hear how Bill built a respectful tribute, the line between tribute and impersonation, and why audience connection—timing, tone, and true care—matters more than perfect mimicry. I believe you'll enjoy this one; it's funny, warm, and full of the kind of details that make memories stick.   Highlights: 00:10 - Hear how a Bob Hope tribute artist frames humor to build instant rapport. 01:41 - Learn how Wichita roots, a theater scholarship, and early TV/radio love shaped a performer. 10:37 - See why acting in Los Angeles led to dinner theater, directing, and meeting his future wife. 15:39 - Discover the Vegas break that sparked a Bob Hope character and a first World War II reunion show. 18:27 - Catch how a custom character (the Stradivarius) evolved into a Hope-style stage persona. 21:16 - Understand the “retirement home test” and how honest rooms sharpen a tribute act. 25:42 - Learn how younger audiences still laugh at classic material when context is set well. 30:18 - Hear the “history with humor” method and why dates, places, and accuracy earn trust. 31:59 - Explore Hope's USO tradition and how Bill carries it forward for veterans and families. 36:27 - Get the difference between a tribute and an impersonation and what makes audiences accept it. 41:40 - Pick up joke-craft insights on setup, economy of words, and fast recoveries when lines miss. 46:53 - Hear travel stories from Tokyo to Fort Hood and why small moments backstage matter. 50:01 - Learn the basics of using Hope's material within IP and public domain boundaries. 51:28 - See the ethical close: making sure a “reasonable person” knows they saw a tribute.   About the Guest:   With a career spanning over thirty years, Bill has forged his niche on stage, screen, and television as a dependable character actor.   Bill's tribute to the late, great Bob Hope was showcased in New Orleans, LA at Experience the Victory, the grand opening of the National WWII Museum's first expansion project. In the ceremony, Bill introduced broadcaster Tom Brokaw, and performed a brief moment of comedy with Academy Award winning actor, Tom Hanks. Bill continues to appear regularly at the WWII Museum, most recently in On the Road with Bob Hope and Friends, which was under-written by the Bob & Dolores Hope Foundation.   Highlights from over the years has included the 70th Anniversary of the End of WWII Celebration aboard the USS Midway in San Diego, and the Welcome Home Vietnam Parade in Tennessee. Additionally, Bill has been honored to appear around the world as Mr. Hope for the USO in locations such as the Bob Hope USO centers in Southern California, the USO Cincinnati Tribute to Veterans (appearing with Miss America 2016-Betty Cantrell),  USO Ft. Hood (appearing with the legendary Wayne Newton), USO of Central and Southern Ohio, USO Puget Sound Area in Seattle, USO Guam, USO Tokyo, USO Holiday Shows in Virginia Beach for US Tours, and a Tribute to the USO on the island of  Maui with country music superstar Lee Greenwood.   Other notable appearances include Tribute Shows for Honor Flight chapters in Alabama, South Carolina, and Ohio, the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association, the US Army Ball, the annual 1940's Ball in Boulder, CO, “USO Cuties Show” at the Tropicana in Atlantic City, the Les Brown Jazz Festival in Tower City, PA, and Hosting “So Many Laughs: A Night of Comedy” at the National Veterans Memorial and Museum in Columbus, OH.   Through the years, Bill has been “murdered” on CSI, portrayed Michael Imperioli's banker in High Roller: The Stu Unger Story, as well as, roles in films such as Ocean's 11, Three Days to Vegas, TV's Scare Tactics, Trick Shot, an award winning short film for Canon cameras, and the series finale of Dice, where Bill appeared as John Quincy Adams opposite Andrew Dice Clay.     Bill is currently based out of Las Vegas, NV where he lives with his wife, author Rosemary Willhide, and rescue dog, Brownie.   Ways to connect with Bill:   http://www.billjohnsonentertainment.com http://www.GigSalad.com/williampatrickjohnson     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:23 This is your host, Mike hingson, and you are listening to unstoppable mindset. You know, we have a saying here, unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, and we're going to definitely have unexpected today. This is also going to be a very fun episode. By the time you hear this, you will have heard a couple of conversations that I had with Walden Hughes, who is the president of the radio enthusiast of Puget Sound. And he's also on the on other boards dealing with old radio show. And he introduced me to Bill Johnson, who is a person that is well known for taking on the role of Bob Hope, and I'm sure that we're going to hear a bunch about that as we go forward here. But Bill is our guest today, and I just played a little segment of something for Bill with Bob Hope and Bing Crosby, two characters by any standard. Well, anyway, we'll get to all that. Bill, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and I'm really honored that you're here with us today.   Bill Johnson ** 02:31 Oh, thanks a million. Michael, it's such a pleasure to be here. Well, this is going to be a fun discussion.   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 Oh, I think so. I think absolutely by any standard, it'll be fun. Well, why don't we start before it gets too fun with some of the early stories about Bill growing up and all that. Tell us about the early bill.   Bill Johnson ** 02:52 Okay, well, I was born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, of all places. And I used to say, I used to Marvel watching Hope's Christmas specials with my family that sort of spurred my interest. But grew up in Midwest, went to Wichita State University, and then after graduation, I had a job with an independent film company and a move to Los Angeles seeking my fortune. Well, the film company pulled it in three months, as those things do, and so I was left with my, I guess, my pursuit of the entertainment career from there.   Michael Hingson ** 03:42 So did you what you went to school and high school and all that stuff?   Bill Johnson ** 03:46 Yes, oh yes, I went to Wichita East High I didn't graduate with honors, but I graduated with a B,   Michael Hingson ** 03:56 that's fair B for Bob Hope, right? Yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 04:01 And then I actually went to college under a theater scholarship, wow. And so that, in those days, that would pay for everything, books, class, which delighted my parents, because we were a family of simple means. So that was the only way I was going to go to college was having a scholarship and but as it turns out, it was for the best years of my humble life, because I got a lot of hands on experience in a Wichita State medium sized College, yeah, but back then it was Much smaller, so I had a lot of opportunity.   Michael Hingson ** 04:43 I've actually been to Wichita State. I've been to Wichita and, oh, great, did some speaking back there. And we're probably going to be doing more in the future. But it's an it's a nice town. It's a great town to to be a part of. I think,   Bill Johnson ** 04:56 yes, people are so nice there. And what I. I've noticed living in other places and then going home to visit Wichitas are cleaned. Just something you noticed, the streets are usually pretty clean and foliage is well manicured. So hats off to the city for keeping the place up to date or keeping it clean   Michael Hingson ** 05:22 anyway. Well, yeah, you got to do what you got to do, and that's amazing. And in the winter, everything gets covered up by the snow.   Bill Johnson ** 05:30 Yes, you do get all four seasons in Wichita, whether you like it or not. See there, yeah, it's one of those places where they have that saying, If you don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes and it'll change.   Michael Hingson ** 05:43 Yeah. So, so, so there. So you majored in theater in college?   Bill Johnson ** 05:49 Yes, I did. Actually, the official designation at Wichita State was speech communication, ah, so that's what I got my Bachelor of Arts   Michael Hingson ** 06:02 degree in so what years? What years were you there?   Bill Johnson ** 06:05 I was there in the fall of 75 and graduated a semester late. So I graduated in December of 79 Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 06:17 yeah, but that was after basically the traditional golden days and golden age of radio, wasn't   Bill Johnson ** 06:24 it? Yes, it was still in the days of black and white television.   Michael Hingson ** 06:29 But yeah, there was a lot of black and white television, and there were some resurgence of radio, radio mystery theater CBS was on, and I think that was before, well, no, maybe later in 7879 I don't know when it was, but NPR did Star Wars. And so there were some radio, radio things, which was pretty good.   Bill Johnson ** 06:53 And I think our friends in Lake will be gone began.   Michael Hingson ** 06:56 Oh yeah, they were in, I think 71 garrison. Keillor, okay, it'll be quiet week in Lake will be gone my hometown. I know I listened every week. Oh, I   Bill Johnson ** 07:06 did too. So my interest in radio was, I think, started back then.   Michael Hingson ** 07:12 Yeah, I enjoyed him every week. As I love to describe him, he clearly was the modern Mark Twain of the United States and radio for that matter. Is that right?   Bill Johnson ** 07:26 Oh, gosh, well, I, I'm, I'm, I'm glad to agree with you. And a lot of that wasn't it improvised to his weekly monolog. He'd have, oh, sure, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:39 he, had ideas. He may have had a couple notes, but primarily it was improvised. He just did it. He just did it.   Bill Johnson ** 07:47 I let some of the episodes you take a lot of find a lot of humor in the fact he's kind of pleased with himself. And he goes, Well, look what we just said, or something. He'll do.   Michael Hingson ** 07:57 Yeah, it was, it was fun. So what did you do after college? Well,   Bill Johnson ** 08:03 after college, when I had moved to Los Angeles, after that, did not work out. I pursued my living as a as an actor, which didn't last long. So I of course, had to get a secondary job, I guess. Let me back up. It did last long, although I didn't have enough to pay my bills. Oh, well, there you go. I had a secondary job as whatever I could find, bartending. Usually, I did a lot of work as a bartender and but you get at least doing something like that. You get the people watch, yeah, oh.   Michael Hingson ** 08:47 And, that's always entertaining, isn't   Bill Johnson ** 08:49 it? Well, it can be, yeah, that's true. Back in my that's where I kind of develop your little stick you do for customers to get them to laugh and maybe tip you. My big thing was that you'd always see a couple, say, making out at the bar because it was kind of dark in there. And I would always say, Hey fellas, you want to meet my wife, Carol? Oh, that's her boss. Don't worry about it. They're having a good time or something like that, just to try to get a few laughs.   Michael Hingson ** 09:23 I've done similar things at airports. I know that the TSA agents have a such a thankless job. And one of the things I decided fairly early on, after September 11, and you know, we got out, and most people, and most of the TSA people don't know it. But anyway, whenever I go through the airport, I love to try to make them laugh. So, you know, they'll say things like, oh, I need to see your ID, please. And, and I'll say things like, Well, why did you lose yours? Or, you know, or you why? I didn't want to see it. It's just a piece of paper, right? You know? But, and I get them to laugh. Mostly, there are few that don't, but mostly they they do. And then the other thing is, of course, going through with my guide dog. And we go through the portal. They have to search the dog because he's got the metal harness on that always sets off the detector. Oh my, yeah. And, and so they say, Well, we're going to have to pet your dog. I said, Well, just wait a minute. There's something you need to know. And I really sound very serious when I do this. You got to understand this before you do that. They go, oh yeah. And they back up, and I go, he only likes long searches. If you don't take a half hour, he's not happy because his tail is going 500 miles a second, you know? Oh, great coming. But it is fun, and we get him to laugh, which is, I think, important to do. We don't laugh at enough in life anyway.   Bill Johnson ** 10:57 Amen to that. It's That's my philosophy as well, my friend. And there's not a lot to laugh about these days. And hopefully we can find the humor, even if we create it ourselves.   Michael Hingson ** 11:11 Yeah, I think there's a lot to laugh at if we find it. You know, there are a lot of things that are not going very well right now, and there are way too many things that make it hard to laugh, but we can find things if we work at it. I wish more people would do that than than some of the things that they do. But what do you do?   Bill Johnson ** 11:31 Yes, yeah, from from your mouth to God's ears, that's a great plan for the future.   Michael Hingson ** 11:39 Well, we try so you you did some acting, and you had all sorts of other jobs. And then what happened?   Bill Johnson ** 11:47 Well, I finally got fed up with the whole bartending thing and the rat race of trying to make it in Los Angeles. I did some commercials. I had a couple of small roles in some independent movies, as they say. But on my first love being theater, I hit the road again doing some regional theater shows to where I finally ended up back in Kansas, once again, that the there was a dinner theater in my hometown of Wichita, and I got hired to do shows there. Oh, so eventually becoming a resident director so and my my family was going through some challenges at the time, so it was good to be home, so I hadn't really abandoned the dream. I just refocused it, and I got a lot of great experience in directing plays, appearing in plays, and I met my white wife there. So so that was a win win on all counts.   Michael Hingson ** 13:00 I first got exposed to dinner theater after college. I was in Iowa, in Des Moines, and the person who was reading the national magazine for the National Federation of the Blind, the magazine called the Braille monitor guy was Larry McKeever was, I think, owner of and very involved in a dinner theater called Charlie's show place, and I don't remember the history, but I went to several of the performances. And then he actually tried to create a serial to go on radio. And it didn't get very far, but it would have been fun if he had been able to do more with it, but he, he did do and there were people there who did the dinner theater, and that was a lot of fun.   Bill Johnson ** 13:45 Oh, gosh, yeah, although I must say that I was sort of the black sheep of the family being in the arts. My My mom and dad came from rural communities, and so they didn't really understand this entertainment business, so that was always a challenge. But there's one footnote that I'm kind of proud of. My grandfather, who was a farmer all his life. He lived on a farm. He was raised on a farm. Every year at the Fourth of July Co Op picnic. The Co Op was a place where they would take the crops and get paid and get supplies and so forth. They would have a picnic for all the people that were their customers every year he would supposedly play the unscrupulous egg buyer or the egg salesman. And so he'd go to the routine, was an old vaudeville routine. He'd go to this poor farmer and say, Here, let me pay you for those eggs. That's here. There's one two. Say, how many kids do you guys have now? For the No, five. 678, say, How long have you and your wife been married? What is it? Seven years, eight, they get the guy go, no, 1011, 12, so that was the bit, and he would do it every year, because I guess he did it   Michael Hingson ** 15:15 really well. Drove the farmers crazy.   Bill Johnson ** 15:18 Yeah, so, so humble beginnings in the lineage,   Michael Hingson ** 15:23 but on the other hand, once you started doing that, at least being in the theater was enough to pay the bills. Yes.   Bill Johnson ** 15:30 So my parents really couldn't complain about that.   Michael Hingson ** 15:34 Well, see, it worked   Bill Johnson ** 15:36 out, yes indeed. And I met my wife, so I'm not complaining   Michael Hingson ** 15:41 about any of it. Now, was she in the theater? Yes, she was a performer.   Bill Johnson ** 15:46 We met in a show called lend me a tenor, and she was the lead, and I was at this point doing my stage management duties. But suffice to say we have gone on and done many shows together since then, and even had been able to play opposite each other a couple of times. So that cool, yeah, that's, that's a you can't ask for better memories than   Michael Hingson ** 16:13 that. No, and you guys certainly knew each other and know each other well. So that works out really well.   Bill Johnson ** 16:20 Yeah, that works out pretty good, except, you know, you sometimes you have to have a conversation and say, Okay, we're just going to leave the theater on the stage and at home. We're at home. Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 16:32 Well, yeah, there is that, but it's okay. So how did you get into the whole process of of portraying Bob Hope, for example, and did you do anything before Bob of the same sort of thing?   Bill Johnson ** 16:51 Well, interestingly enough, to complete the whole circle of my experience, when I was performing in Wichita, I got a job opportunity here in Lacher. I'm living in Las Vegas now, to move out here and audition, or come out and audition for a new dinner show that was opening at Caesar's Palace. It was called Caesar's magical Empire, and it was, it was in 1996 and during that time, there was this big magic craze in Las Vegas. Everybody was doing magic   Michael Hingson ** 17:27 shows. You had Siegfried and Roy and yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 17:30 So I came out, I auditioned and got hired. And so then it was like, Well, now you got to move. So we moved on a just on hope and a prayer. And luckily, they eventually hired my wife, and so we got to work together there, and I eventually went on to become the, what they called the show director. I didn't do the original show direction, but it was my job to maintain the integrity of the attraction. So during those years it was that was kind of difficult, because you have to listen to being on the administrative team. You've got to listen to all the conflict that's going on, as well as and try to keep the waters calm, keep peace. Yes. So anyway, doing my show and being interactive, you talk back and forth to the audience, and after it was over, you take them out to a next the next experience in their night, when they would go see magic in a big showroom. And a lady came up to me and and she said, say, I've got this world war two reunion coming up next month. I'd like you to come and be, pretend to be Bob Hope. Do you know who that is? And I was like, yes, he's one of my heroes. And so that was the first opportunity, suffice to say, I guess I did. Should have prefaced it by saying, when the magical Empire first opened, we were all playing these mystical wizards and dark characters. Well, that didn't fly. That wasn't any fun. So then the directors, the producers said, well, everybody, come up with your own character, and we'll go from there. And so I created this character named the Stradivarius, because I like to fiddle the room. I get it and   Michael Hingson ** 19:37 but I played it like Bobby and you like to stream people along. But anyway, hey, I wish I would have   Bill Johnson ** 19:42 thought of that. My approach was like Bob Hope in one of the road pictures. So the show would be sort of a fish out of water type thing. Come on, folks. You know, I laughed when you came in that type of thing. Yeah. So when this lady saw the show that. How she got that inspiration?   Michael Hingson ** 20:04 Well, your voice is close enough to his that I could, I could see that anyway.   Bill Johnson ** 20:09 Oh, well, thank you. Sometimes I'd say it drives my wife nuts, because I'll come across an old archival material and say, Hey, honey, how about this one? So she's got to be the first audience, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 20:23 Well, I'm prejudiced, so you could tell her, I said, so okay,   Bill Johnson ** 20:27 that you would, you'd love to hear it, right? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 20:31 Well, absolutely. Well, so you went off and you did the the World War Two event.   Bill Johnson ** 20:38 Did the World War Two event shortly after that, the met this, well, I should tell you another story, that shortly after that, a young man came to my show, and during the show, he stopped me and said, say, You remind me of someone very dear to me. Have you ever heard of Bob Hope? And I said, yeah, he's again. I said, one of my heroes. The guy said, Well, you kind of remind me of him. Went on his merry way, and I didn't think much of it. Well, it just so happens. The next day, I was watching the biography documentary of Bob Hope, and all of a sudden this talking head comes up, and it's the same guy I was just talking to in my show the day, the day before, it turns out that was, that was Bob's adopted son, Tony Tony hope. So I took that as a positive sign that maybe I was doing something similar to Mr. Hope, anyway. But then, as I said, The show closed very soon after that, sadly, Mr. Hope passed away. And 2003 right, and so there was, there was no real demand for anything like that. But I didn't let the idea go. I wanted something to do creatively. I continued to work for the same company, but I went over and ran the 3d movie at Eminem's world in Las Vegas 20 years. So I had plenty of time to think about doing   Michael Hingson ** 22:26 something creative, and you got some Eminem's along the way.   Bill Johnson ** 22:30 They keep them in the break room for the employees. So it's like, here's all the different brand I mean, here's all the different flavors and styles. So to have a way and you can tell guests, oh yeah, that's delicious. It tastes like, just like almonds or   22:45 something. Yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 22:47 So based on that, I decided to pursue this, this tribute, and it, I'll tell you, it's difficult getting started at first, you got to practically pay people to let you come and do a show. I'd go to retirement homes and say, Hey, you want to show today. Sometimes they'd let me, sometimes they wouldn't. But the thing about doing a show at a retirement community is they will be very honest with you. If you ain't any good, they'll say, man, no, thanks. Oh, nice try. So know where my trouble spots were,   Michael Hingson ** 23:29 but, but audiences don't treat you as the enemy, and I know that one of the things I hear regularly is, well, how do you speak so much and so well. You know the one of the greatest fears that we all have as a public speaking, and one of the things that I constantly tell people is, think about the audiences. They want you to succeed. They came because they want to hear you succeed, and you need to learn how to relate to them. But they're not out to get you. They want you to be successful and and they love it when you are and I learned that very early on and speaking has never been something that I've been afraid of. And I think it's so important that people recognize that the audiences want you to succeed anyway.   Bill Johnson ** 24:17 That's so true. And you kind of touched on a quote I remember one of the books from Bob hopes. He said how he approaches it. He said, I consider the audience as my best friends, and who doesn't want to spend time with your best friend, right?   Michael Hingson ** 24:34 And I and I believe that when I speak, I don't talk to an audience. I talk with the audience, and I will try to do some things to get them to react, and a lot of it is when I'm telling a story. I've learned to know how well I'm connecting by how the audience reacts, whether there's intakes of breath or or they're just very silent or whatever. And I think that's so important, but he's. Absolutely right. Who wouldn't want to spend time with your best friend? Yes, amen. Did you ever get to meet Bob? Hope   Bill Johnson ** 25:07 you know I never did, although I at one point in my when I was living in Los Angeles, a friend of mine and I, we were in the over the San Fernando Valley, and they said, Hey, I think there's some stars homes near here. Let's see if we can find them. And we said, I think Bob Hope lives on this street. So we went down Moor Park Avenue in Toluca Lake, and we finally saw this home with a giant H on the gate. And it's like, Oh, I wonder. This has got to be it. Well, all of a sudden these gates began to open. And we, kind of, my friend and I were like, and here, here, Hope came driving home. He was, he arrived home in a very nicely appointed Chrysler Cordoba, remember those? And he had one, he just was just scowling at us, like, what are you doing in my life? You know, and they drove it. So that's as close as I got to the real guy. But I wish I could have had the pleasure of seeing him in person, but never, never was fortunate enough.   Michael Hingson ** 26:18 Well, one of the things that's interesting is like with the World Trade Center, and I've realized over the past few years, we're in a world with a whole generation that has absolutely no direct Memory of the World Trade Center because they weren't born or they were too young to remember. And that goes even further back for Bob Hope. How does that work? Do you find that you're able to connect with younger audiences? Do they talk with you know? Do they do they react? Do they love it? How   Bill Johnson ** 26:52 does that go? Well, interestingly enough, a lot of times, if there are younger people at shows, they're usually dragged there by their parents and I have found that they will start chuckling and giggling and laughing in spite of themselves, because that old humor of hopes that, granted, it is corny, but there's some great material there, if presented in the proper context. Yeah. I was funny story. I was doing a show at the National World War Two Museum in New Orleans. They were dedicating a new theater or something, and the color guard was a group of local leaf Marines that were serving in a local base, and they were standing there right before they went on, and this young man kept looking at me, and finally he said, very respectfully, says, I'm sorry, sir, but who are you? So I said, luckily, there was a picture of Bob Hope on the wall. And I said, Well, I'm trying to be that guy. And I said, Hang around a little bit. You'll hear some of the material so, but that's the thing I that you did bring up. An interesting point is how to keep your audience, I guess, interested, even though the humor is 4056, 70 years old, I call it like all my approach history with humor. The first time I did the Bob Hope, as in the national natural progression of things, I went to an open call, eventually here in Vegas to do they were looking for impersonators for an afternoon show at the Riviera in a place called Penny town. It was just a place for Penny slots. And they had, and they hired me. They said you can do your Bob Hope impression there. And so they had a stage that was on a one foot riser. You had a microphone and a speaker and a sound man, and you had to do a 10 Minute monolog six times a day every Yeah, do 10 minutes. You'd have about a 40 minute break. Do 10 more. And I didn't do it every day, but you would be scheduled. Maybe they'd have, you know, have a Reba McEntire one day. They'd have an Elvis one day. Well, so I would it was a great place to try your ad, because, and that's what turned me on to the whole idea of history with humor. Because when I started, I was just doing some of his material I'd found in a hope joke book that I thought were funny. Well, once in a while, people would be playing the slots. Granted, they were looking at the machines. Nobody was looking at me. And once, when I'd have somebody who. Ah, you know, crank the arm, one arm banded against and then, or I make the sound man laugh. And that was my goal. Well, there was a snack bar right in front of us with a rail that people. They weren't tables, but you could go, lean against the rail and eat your I think it was called Moon doggies hot dog stand so you could eat your hot dog and watch Bob. Hope so if I could make the moon doggy people hot dog folks choke on their hot dog while they were laughing. That was like a home run. Yeah. But to keep them interested, tell them something that they will know. For instance, Hope's first show for the troops was May 6, 1941 down in March field in Riverside California. And you start giving dates and specifics that i i can see the people in the audience go, oh yeah, in their mind's eye, they if they were around, then they will go back to that day. What was I doing then? Okay, and so you kind of make the world relevant for them. So that's how I approach World War Two, Korea and Vietnam. Is give dates and places, which you got to be accurate, because the veterans   Michael Hingson ** 31:27 will set you straight. Oh yeah, because they do remember. Oh yes, they were there.   Bill Johnson ** 31:33 So some of them and but it's, it's amazing, as you say, you can tell if the audience is engaged by if they inhale or if they make some complimentary noises during the show. Sometimes I'll get fellas who will sit there and ponder just looking at me, and then they'll come up afterwards and say, Man, I hadn't thought about that in years.   Michael Hingson ** 32:04 Yeah, thank you. And you know you're connecting, yeah, yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 32:09 And because hope represented, I think, a good memory in a kind of a rough time for a   Michael Hingson ** 32:16 lot of folks. Well, he did. He did so much for the troops with the military. And as you said, May 6, 1941, and it went from there. And of course, during the whole war, he was all over and entertaining people and and he was also very active in radio as part of all that.   Bill Johnson ** 32:38 Oh my goodness, I don't know how the man found time to sleep, because if he were alive today, he would love social media and podcasts and things, because he was always trying to get his name in the paper or get some publicity, but he never forgot about his audience. He would want to do a show for the troops, no matter where they were stationed or he said I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I didn't try.   Michael Hingson ** 33:10 Yeah, well, you do a lot with veterans and so on. So you've kind of kept up that tradition, haven't you?   Bill Johnson ** 33:19 Yes, I have been fortunate enough to play a lot of reunions and some, maybe some uso themed shows, because that first show he did, hope did, in May of 1941 was they just was a radio show that his, one of his writers had a brother stationed it in Riverside, California, and the war hadn't started, so they had nothing to do, right? These guys were bored, and so he said, Let's take our show down there and hope. So hope didn't want to leave the comfort of his NBC studio. It's like, you know, what's the idea? And they said, how big is the crowd? And they said, Well, I don't know, maybe 1000 and of course, you know 1000 people. And you know, in Hope's mind, he says, I'd give my arm and a leg to hear 10 people laugh. 100 people is like a symphony, but 1000 people, yeah, sheer fantasy. So he said, Oh, wait a minute, are you 1000 people? Are you sure? And this guy, Al capstaff, said, Well, maybe two. So that was it. And they went down. And when the audience, of course, they were just hungry for anything, the response was just so great that hope said, well, where has this been? And he said, shortly after that, we teamed up with the USO and been going steady. Ever since, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 35:02 and that's so cool. And again, you've, you've kept a lot of that going to now, we've talked on this show with Walden about reps and the showcase and so on. Are you going to be up at the recreation in Washington in September?   Bill Johnson ** 35:18 Yes, I am. I'll be there, and we're, I believe we're doing a one of the cavalcade of America shows that sort of incorporates a lot of his initial, well, one of his initial tours over in World War Two. But it's because a cavalcade is a recreation. A lot of it's drama, dramatized, but it's, it's and it's encapsulated you go bang, bang, bang across a big section of World War Two and Hope's experience in Europe. But it's, to me, as a fan of that genre, it's fascinating, so I just looking forward to it. I think it's going to be a lot of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 36:04 Well, we ought to, one of these days, we need to just do a Bob Hope radio show or something like that, and get you to come on and get an audience and and, and just do a show.   Bill Johnson ** 36:15 Oh, that would be great. I would love. That would be fun. That would be great, you know. And if there's any naysayers, you just say they said, Why do you want to do radio? Say, well, as hope would say, radio is just TV without the eye strain,   Michael Hingson ** 36:30 yeah, and the reality, you know, I'm one of my favorite characters, and one of my favorite shows is Richard diamond private detective, and I was originally going to actually be at the showcase doing Richard diamond, but I've got a speaking engagement, so I won't be able to be there this time, so we'll do it another time. But I remember, you know, at the beginning of every show, the first thing that would happen is that the phone would ring and he would answer it and say something cute, and it was usually his girlfriend, Helen Asher, who is played by Virginia, or who is, yeah, played by Virginia. Greg and one of his shows started. The phone rang. He picked it up. Diamond detective agency, we can solve any crime except television. That's great. I love that one. I love to use that.   Bill Johnson ** 37:20 I gotta remember that that's a great line, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 37:24 but it's really fun. Well, so you classify yourself as a tribute artist. How do you really get started in doing that, and how do you keep that going?   Bill Johnson ** 37:38 Well, that's, that's a, that's the million dollar question. Basically, I I found all the archival material I could find, and there's a ton of information on Bob Hope on YouTube nowadays, and you need to decide, are you a tribute, or are you an impersonator? Because there is a slight difference.   Michael Hingson ** 38:04 What difference a tribute?   Bill Johnson ** 38:08 Well, first off, an impersonator is someone who resembles someone famous and dresses up in a manner as to portray them, and that can include a tribute artist who may not look identical to the person, but can capture a mannerism or a vocal vocal rhythm to suggest enough that the audience will accept it. I I do it. I am, I feel like I can capture a little bit of his face with some, you know, some of the expressions people have told me my eyes resemble his, as well as wear a hat or something from try to copy a costume from a picture that is very you feel like is iconic of this character. So if you can come out and present that, that's the battle hope would always he began his radio shows, as you recall, by saying where he was and like, how do you do ladies and gentlemen, this is Bob live from Santa Ana Air Base, hope and and then do a two, two line rhyme about his sponsor, usually Pepsodent, just to get on to start the show with a laugh like Pepsodent on your brush and use plenty of traction and none of Your teeth. They'll be missing in action.   39:39 Yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 39:42 Huge, but, but you to to pursue it. As I said, you've just got to, you've got to kind of forage out in the real world and see if see somebody's looking for a show, and hopefully get someone to take a chance. Okay? Give you an opportunity. That's why I went to that open call to do that show at the Riviera. It is difficult to tell jokes at people that are chewing at you, but it's a good learning ground, plus doing the shows at the retirement homes made you prepared for anything because, but I found that I got the strongest response from veteran mentioned some of those history moments, historical moments. And so I thought maybe I'll just focus on this, not to put together the other comedy. And the other experiences are very important too. But the things I have found people remember the most were those shows for the troops. Yeah, and basically, in a nutshell, and they don't remember what did he What did he say? Do you remember a joke? Sometimes they'll tell me a joke, but most, most times, they don't remember what he said, but they remember how he made them feel,   Michael Hingson ** 41:06 yeah, and the fact that he said it, yes, yeah,   Bill Johnson ** 41:10 there's a there's a common joke I'd heard for years, and a friend of mine told me he was a 10 year old kid at Fort Levin fort, Leonard Wood, Missouri. And hope came out and told the joke. The guy goes into a bar. Oh, no, excuse me. Let me back up. A grasshopper goes into a bar. The bartender says, Hey, we got a drink named after you. The grasshopper says, you got a drink named Irving cute. And I'd heard that. Yeah, I guess hope told it and so you never know what what inspires your comedy, but there's a lot of common things I heard growing up that I will find hope said. Hope said it at one point or another in his either his radio show or on one of his specials. So   Michael Hingson ** 41:58 do you think that a lot of what he did was ad lib, or do you think that it was mostly all written, and he just went from a script?   Bill Johnson ** 42:07 That's a good point. He was one of the first performers to use cue cards, okay? And a lot of it was was written, but from what I've read is that he was also very fast on his feet. That's what I thought. Because if something happened, he would come in with a bang, with with another line to top it, yeah. Well, you know, like we were talking about that command performance, where with Lana Turner that he said, she said, Well, they've been looking at ham all night, and you're still here. Ah, big laugh. Haha, yeah. And he said, Now I'm bacon with the double entendre, you know, like, yeah, you burn me, whatever. But that was, I thought that was   Michael Hingson ** 42:51 cute, yeah, and he, and he is, clearly there had to be a whole lot more to him than than writing. And so I absolutely am convinced that there was a lot of bad living. And there was just, he was fast, he was good at it and them, and the more he got comfortable, because of those big crowds that they got him started, the better he became   Bill Johnson ** 43:16 absolutely you can there's a great book by, I know, do you know Bob mills? He was one, was one of Bob Hope's writers wrote a right and he explains the formula behind a lot of their jokes situation, and then it would have a payoff, you know, like, I don't know what happened, but now that you know this is set up in a setup and then the joke. Hope supposedly liked an economy of dialog. He didn't like a lot of language going from point A to point B to tell his joke. That's why the rapid fire delivery. And he had a lot of jokes in his shows. The radio shows had, at least, was it something like 10 jokes a minute?   Michael Hingson ** 44:08 Well, they were, they were very fast. And there were, we've got a few rehearsals of Bob Hope shows. And clearly some of the things that he did, because at first he wasn't getting the reaction that he thought he was going to get, but he pulled it out. And again, it's all because he was fast. He was good.   Bill Johnson ** 44:29 Yeah, I've got some blooper reels from some of the Christmas specials, and he'll try and try and try. And then finally, he'll say, take that card and tear it up, throw it away. And that's funnier than the joke itself.   Michael Hingson ** 44:44 Yeah, than the joke itself. It's really cute. So you obviously like performing. Does that run in your family?   Bill Johnson ** 44:55 Well, not necessarily, as I said, I'm kind of the black sheep of the. Family, because I was in the arts, they would rather have a more what do I want to say? A more safe career, a career choice as a you know, because entertaining, you're always wondering, well, where's my next job? Yeah, as opposed to something else, where you might have a better idea of what are your next paychecks coming? But I do have always had a day job, and this is sort of like my way to flex those creative muscles.   Michael Hingson ** 45:33 So what's your day job today? My   Bill Johnson ** 45:35 day job is I still do technical support for the good folks at Eminem's world on the script. Only they after covid happened, they closed the 3d movie that I was overseeing. And another fellow, when I do tech support, we just basically make sure the lights come on. And as well as I have a job at the College of Southern Nevada, on the support staff, trying to help folks who have English as a Second Language get a job. So I find those are both rewarding challenges.   Michael Hingson ** 46:15 It's a good thing I don't go to Eminem's world because I don't really care if the lights are on or not.   Bill Johnson ** 46:20 Oh, well, there you go. We need somebody here doing rim shots.   Michael Hingson ** 46:26 Yeah, you like dependent people are all alike. You know, you got to have all those lights. Yes, I don't know that I've been to Eminem's world. I've been to the Eminem store in New York City, but I don't think I've been to the one in Las Vegas.   Bill Johnson ** 46:40 I was actually at the opening of that Eminem store in New York City. Funny story, they know they have people that put on the character suits, right? And when I was there to help them kind of get their get acclimated to wearing those suits and then peering in front of people. Well, the kids were doing around, say, two in the afternoon. Well, the New York Times showed up at noon, one pick they wanted a picture of and so I had to put on the I was yellow, the peanut, and this other person that was there put on the red suit, and we walked down on 46th Street and started walking on the street, wave and and carrying on. I thought, Here I am. I finally made it to Broadway. Yeah, and I'm and I'm dressed as a nut so,   Michael Hingson ** 47:30 and you had Hershey right across the street,   Bill Johnson ** 47:32 right across the street, so I don't know. I imagine her, she's still there, probably still going head to head, to this   Michael Hingson ** 47:40 day, the last time I heard they were so well, I don't know, I don't know whether anything really changed with covid, but the last I heard they were   Bill Johnson ** 47:49 well, more powerful, Yeah, funny story.   Michael Hingson ** 47:56 Well, so you will, you travel basically anywhere to do a show? Are there any limits?   Bill Johnson ** 48:03 Or no, I'll go anywhere. My this tribute has taken me as far as Tokyo, Japan for the USO there. I've done shows in the Pacific and Guam I'm not too sure I want to travel internationally these days, but if somebody has an opportunity, I'll think about it. Funny thing happened at that, that show I did in Tokyo, I was, it was, it was a gala for the local uso honor the the troops who were serving in that area. So they had that representative from each branch that was serving our Navy, Marines and the Japan, nation of Japan now has what they call, this, the Civil Defense Group. I believe that's what they call because after World War Two, they signed that document saying they would not have an organized military. But right, they have their civil defense, and so we were honoring them, that there was a group, an Andrew sisters trio, performing, singing and dancing and and I was standing off off stage, just waiting to go on and finish the show. And this, this has been 20 years ago. Let me preface that this older Japanese gentleman came up to me, and he said, I would like to make a toast. And there was a lady in charge who, you know this was. There was some, some admirals there, and leaders of the Seventh Fleet were, were there. So everything had to be approved. Everything went according to schedule. The military events are just boom, boom, boom. And so I said, Well, okay, I need to ask Judy, when this Judy was in charge, when we can do this? And he just said, I want to make a tow. Toast. And I said, okay, but I have to clear it with Judy. Well, I finally got Judy and said that older Japanese man would like to make a toast. And she said, Yes, let him do whatever he wants. Turns out, he was an admiral in the Japanese Navy during during World War Two, and he was attending the event here, although these many years later, just as you know, everyone else was sure. So to bail myself out of it, I went back on said stage and said, And now, ladies and gentlemen, our honored guest would like to make a toast. And he, of course, I can't remember the toast, but as I at the time, I thought that was very sweet and very eloquent. So it's just these incredible little snippets of life you you go through. It's like, how could I ever know, when I was a five year old kid in Kansas, that Monday I'd be chatting with a world war two Admiral from the Japanese Navy, right? Just, it's just mind boggling.   Michael Hingson ** 51:06 So I'm curious. Bob Hope copyrighted a lot of his jokes. Are you able to still use them? Well, that's a   Bill Johnson ** 51:13 good question. Yes, he did. He copyrighted his jokes and everything, however, and I have spoken to the lawyer for the hope estate. There are the, what do you call that? It just flew out of my head that the the laws surrounding   Michael Hingson ** 51:32 intellectual property, copyright laws and intellectual property and public domain, yeah, yeah.   Bill Johnson ** 51:38 The song, thanks for the memory is in public domain, and hope would always change the lyrics to where he went because he hated the song. Supposedly he had, how did I get hung with that old dog of a song?   Michael Hingson ** 51:52 Yeah, well, he kept using it every week, so I can't believe it was too anti song. Yeah,   Bill Johnson ** 51:57 that's true, but the hope is they did copyright his jokes, but as long as I don't write a book and try to sell them as my jokes, I should be fine as well as I am. Allow you the those laws allow you to present impersonate someone, no matter who it is. You could impersonate your next door neighbor, even though he's not famous, as long as you do not do something to harm them, yeah, or represent it in an unflattering way   Michael Hingson ** 52:28 well, and clearly, what you're doing is pretty obvious to anyone who knows at all that it's Bob Hope and that you're trying to do a tribute to him. So I would think it would make sense that that would work   Bill Johnson ** 52:39 well it should and but the final caveat is that a reasonable person must come away from the show knowing full well they did not see the original. You must tell them. And Bob Hope's been gone for   Michael Hingson ** 52:55 many years. Yeah, 22 years now.   Bill Johnson ** 52:59 So that's usually not a problem, but that's how I finished my tribute as vice is, I usually wear a hat to complete the illusion, with the bill flecked up. I'll take the hat off and say, now if I could break character and tell about how hope was named an honorary veteran, and at the age of 94 it was an amendment passed by Congress designated him as an honorary veteran, and it was received unanimous bipartisan support   Michael Hingson ** 53:30 as it should yes and   Bill Johnson ** 53:33 Hope went on to say, sort of all the awards I've received in my lifetime being now being listed among the men and women I admire the most. This is my greatest honor, so that's a good way for me to wrap up my tributes whenever possible.   Michael Hingson ** 53:54 Do you have, oh, go ahead, no,   Bill Johnson ** 53:56 I was gonna say there's another funny story. You know, hope lived to be 100 Yeah, and George Burns.   Michael Hingson ** 54:03 George Burns, lived to be 100   Bill Johnson ** 54:05 lived to be 100 Supposedly, the two of them had a bet as to who would live the longest. Now, the thing is, what were the stakes and how do you collect? Yeah, because some guy, you're not going to be there. But in any event, George Burns was born in the 1890s and so he was older than hope. Hope was born in 1903 George Burns lived to be 100 years and 10 days old. Bob Hope lived to be 100 years and 59 days   54:41 Oh,   Bill Johnson ** 54:42 so hope. Well, the story goes that in his final, final months, he was just he was pretty much bedridden and slept and slept a lot. His wife, Dolores went to his bedside. He had that 100 years 10 day mark, and she said. Well, Bob, you won the bet. You have now lived longer than George Burns. And supposedly, even though he was fat, he was like they thought he was asleep, this huge smile just curled up his lips so he heard, that's great.   Michael Hingson ** 55:18 That's great. Well, if, if you have, do you have something that you could do for us, or do you have something that you could play or something that would give us just a little flavor?   Bill Johnson ** 55:28 Um, yeah, I Well, if you, I would tell your listeners that they want to catch a little bit more. They can go to my website, Bill Johnson entertainment.com, and there's some video clips there, but I like to do is that hope would always, he would always joke about traveling to the event, and that's how I like to begin my shows with him arriving. Since I just flew in on a wing of prayer. I was on the wing because as a soldier, I wouldn't have a prayer nicely. My flight was very nice, but the plane was rather old. In fact, the pilot sat behind me wearing goggles and a scarf. This plane was so old that Lindbergh's lunch was still on the seat. The fasten seat belt sign was in Latin. To get to the washroom, you had to crawl out on the wing. But I come on, folks, I said, to get to the washroom, you had to crawl out of the wing. But hey, I don't know about you, but I have a fear of flying that dates back to my childhood. See, when I was a baby being delivered by the stork, that blasted bird dropped me from 400 feet. Yeah, he did that to stay out of the range my father's shotgun. See, Dad already had my brothers, Eenie, Meenie and Miney. When I came along, he didn't want   56:55 no moat. I get it just   Bill Johnson ** 57:00 it goes along in those words. Well, we are,   Michael Hingson ** 57:05 we are definitely going to have to just work out doing a radio show and getting you to to do a whole show, and we'll have to get some other people to go along with it. We'll figure it out. Oh, that sounds great. I would buy a lot of fun to do. Count me in. Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful to be able to talk about Bob Hope and to talk about you. Even more important, I'm sure that Bob Hope is monitoring from somewhere, but by the same token, you're here and we're here, so we do get to talk about you, which is important to do as   Bill Johnson ** 57:41 well. Well, that's very kind, Michael. I was hopeful that you would be at the rips.   Michael Hingson ** 57:47 I was planning on it because I wanted to, I want to really do the Richard diamond show. I'll, I told you I'd send you the command performance that we talked about Dick Tracy and B flat, or, for goodness sakes, is he ever going to marry Tess true heart? Oh yes. And I'll also send you the Richard diamond that we're going to do the next time I'm able to be at the rep show. It's, it's   Bill Johnson ** 58:06 really hilarious. Oh, that sounds great.   Michael Hingson ** 58:09 But I want to thank you for being here once again. Tell us your website.   Bill Johnson ** 58:14 My website is, it's my name and followed by entertain Bill Johnson, entertainment.com there's there's some video clips there, and some great pictures of some of the folks I've had the pleasure of meeting and performing with. I don't want to name drop, but just to give the the act a little more credence, pictures with Les Brown Jr. Rest his soul. I did it floored. I was able to do a show with Lee Greenwood on the island of Maui Wow, as well as perform with Wayne Newton at Fort Hood, Texas. Wayne Newton actually took over for Bob Hope with the USO when Bob just got too old to travel. Yeah, so, so that's just for a humble, humble guy. It's some incredible stories   Michael Hingson ** 59:19 well, and you're keeping some wonderful memories alive, and we'll definitely have to do something with that. But I want to thank you for for being here and again. Bill Johnson, entertainment.com, so go check it out, folks and and there's a lot of old radio out there online. We've talked about yesterday usa.com or yesterday usa.net they're the same. You can listen. You can go to reps online, R, E, P, S online, and listen to a lot of radio programs there. There are a number of people we've had Carl Amari on who several years ago, did come. Complete redos of all of the Twilight zones, and he made them scripts for radio, which was a lot of fun. Have you ever heard any of those?   Bill Johnson ** 1:00:07 I've never heard. I was a big fan of the show when it was on TV, but I never heard any of the   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:12 radio. Stacy Keach Jr is is the Rod Serling character, but, oh yeah, Twilight radio,   Bill Johnson ** 1:00:19 that's great. I will check it out,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:22 or we'll send you some that's even better. But I want to thank you for being here, and thank you all for being here with us. I hope you had fun today. It's a little bit different than some of the things that we've done on the podcast, but I think it makes it all the more fun. So thanks for being here. Please let us know what you think. Email me. I'd love to hear from you. Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to get your thoughts wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star review. We appreciate those a lot. Tell other people about the podcast. We really would like to get as many people listening as we can, and we want to be sure to do the kinds of things you want on the podcast. So if you know anyone else who ought to be on the podcast, Bill, that goes for you as well, please introduce us. We're always looking for more people to come on unstoppable mindset that we get a chance to chat with. So hope that you'll all do that and again. Bill, I want to thank you one more time for being here. This has been fun.   Bill Johnson ** 1:01:21 This has been a blast. Michael, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:32 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

A Young Republican group in NY has been suspended over offensive exhanges with their National Federation. AP's Lisa Dwyer reports.