Podcasts about Puget Sound

What happens when a childhood dream refuses to let go? In this episode, I sit down with cartoonist and Lum and Abner historian Donnie Pitchford to explore how old-time radio, comic strips, and a love for storytelling shaped his life. Donnie shares how he grew up inspired by classic radio shows like Lum and Abner, pursued art despite setbacks, and eventually brought the beloved Pine Ridge characters back to life through a modern comic strip and audio adaptations. We talk about creativity, persistence, radio history, and why imagination still matters in a visual world. If you care about classic radio, cartooning, or staying true to your calling, I believe you will find this conversation both inspiring and practical. Highlights: 00:10 Discover how a childhood love of Lum and Abner sparked a lifelong dream of becoming a cartoonist. 08:00 Hear how college radio and classic broadcasts deepened a passion for old time radio storytelling. 14:33 Understand how years of teaching broadcast journalism built the skills that later fueled creative success. 23:17 Learn how the Lum and Abner comic strip was revived with family approval and brought to modern audiences. 30:07 Explore how two actors created an entire town through voice and imagination alone. 1:00:16 Hear the vision for keeping Lum and Abner alive for new generations through comics and audio. Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: Donnie Pitchford of Texas is a graduate of Kilgore College, Art Instruction Schools, Stephen F. Austin State University and the University of Texas at Tyler. He has worked in the graphic arts industry and in education, teaching at Hawkins High School, Panola College, and Carthage High School at which he spent 25 years directing CHS-TV, where student teams earned state honors, including state championships, for 20 consecutive years. In 2010, Donnie returned to the endeavor he began at age five: being a cartoonist! The weekly “Lum and Abner" comic strip began in 2011. It is available online and in print and includes an audio production for the blind which features the talents of actors and musicians who donate their time. Donnie has created comic book stories and art for Argo Press of Austin, illustrated children's books, written scripts for the "Dick Tracy" newspaper strip, and produced the science fiction comedy strip "Tib the Rocket Frog." He has collaborated with award-winning writers and cartoonists George Wildman, Nicola Cuti, John Rose, Mike Curtis, Joe Staton, and others. In 2017, Donnie began assisting renowned sculptor Bob Harness and currently sculpts the portraits for the Texas Country Music Hall of Fame plaques. Awards include the 1978 Kilgore College "Who's Who" in Art, an Outstanding Educator Award from the East Texas Chapter of the Texas Society of CPAs in 1993, the CHS "Pine Burr" Dedicatee honor in 2010, and a Distinguished Alumnus Award in 2018 from Spring Hill High School. In 2024, Donnie was inducted into the City of Carthage Main Street Arts Walk of Fame which included the placement of a bronze plaque in the sidewalk and the Key to the City. Donnie and his best friend/wife, Laura, are members of First Methodist Church Carthage, Texas. Donnie is a founding officer of the National Lum and Abner Society and a member of Texas Cartoonists, Ark-La-Tex Cartoonists, Christian Comic Arts Society, and the National Cartoonists Society. Ways to connect with Michaela**:** https://www.facebook.com/groups/220795254627542 https://lumandabnercomics.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I've been looking forward to this one for a while. We have Donny Pitchford as our guest today. You're probably going, who's Donnie Pitchford? Well, let me tell you. So years ago, I started collecting old radio shows. And one of the first shows that I got was a half hour episode of a show called Lum and Abner, which is about a couple of characters, if you will, in Pine Ridge, Arkansas. And I had only heard the half hour show sponsored by frigid air. But then in 1971 when ksi, out here in Los Angeles, the 50,000 watt Clear Channel station, started celebrating its 50 year history, they started broadcasting as part of what they did, 15 minute episodes of lemon Abner. And I became very riveted to listening to lemon Abner every night, and that went on for quite a while. And so I've kept up with the boys, as it were. Well, a several years ago, some people formed a new Lum and Abner society, and Donnie Pitchford is part of that. I met Donnie through radio enthusiast of Puget Sound, and yesterday, USA. And so we clearly being interested in old radio and all that, had to have Donnie come on and and talk with us. So Donnie, or whatever character you're representing today, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Donnie Pitchford  02:58 Huh? I'm glad to be here. Michael Hingson  03:00 He does that very well, doesn't he? It's a Donnie Pitchford  03:04 little tough sometimes. Well, I'm really glad to be here. Thank you. Michael Hingson  03:10 Well, I appreciate the audio parts of lemon Abner that you you all create every week, and just the whole society. It's great to keep that whole thing going it's kind of fun. We're glad that that it is. But let's, let's talk about you a little bit. Why don't you start by telling us about the early Donnie, growing up and all that. I'm assuming you were born, and so we won't worry about that. But beyond that, think so, yeah. Well, there you are. Tell us about tell us about you and growing up and all that, and we'll go from there. Donnie Pitchford  03:42 Well, I was born in East Texas and left for a little while. We lived in my family lived in Memphis, Tennessee for about seven years, and then moved back to Texas in 1970 but ever since I was a kid this I hear this from cartoonists everywhere. Most of them say I wanted to be a cartoonist when I was five years old. So that's in fact, I had to do a speech for the Texas cartoonist chapter of the National Cartoonist Society. And that was my start. I was going to say the same thing, and the President said, Whatever you do, don't do that old bit about wanting to be a cartoonist at age five. Everybody does that, so I left that part out, but that's really what I wanted to do as a kid. And I would see animated cartoons. I would read the Sunday comics in the Memphis Commercial Appeal, and then at some point, my dad would talk about radio, and my mother would talk about listening to radio. We would have the reruns of the Lone Ranger television show and things like Sky King and other programs along those lines, and my parents would all. Way say, Well, I used to listen to that on the radio, or I would hear Superman on the radio, or Amos and Andy or whatever was being rerun at that time, and that fascinated me. And I had these vague memories of hearing what I thought were television programs coming over the radio when I was about two years old. I remember gunshots. I remember, you know, like a woman crying and just these little oddball things. I was about two years old, and I kept thinking, Well, why are we picking up television programs on my mother's radio? Turns out it was the dying gasps of what we now call old time radio. And so at least I remembered that. But when I was about, I guess eight or nine we were, my dad took me to lunch at alums restaurant in Memphis, and I saw that name, and I thought, What in the world? So what kind of name is that? And my dad told me about London Abner, and he said it reminds me. It reminded him of the Andy Griffith Show or the Beverly Hillbillies. I said, I'd love to hear that. He said, Ah, you'll never hear it. He said, those were live they don't exist, but years later, I got to hear them. So yeah, but that's how I grew up wanting to be a cartoonist and coming up with my own characters and drawing all the time and writing stories and that sort of thing. Michael Hingson  06:24 So when did you move back from Memphis to Texas? Donnie Pitchford  06:28 July 2, 1970 I just happened to look that up the other day. How old were you then? I was 12 when we came back. All right, so got into, I was in junior high, and trying to, I was trying to find an audience for these comic strips I was drawing on notebook paper. And finally, you know, some of the kids got into them, and I just continued with that goal. And I just, I knew that soon as possible, you know, I was going to start drawing comics professionally. So I thought, but kept, you know, I kept trying. Michael Hingson  07:06 So you, you went on into college. What did you do in college? Donnie Pitchford  07:11 Well, more of the same. I started listening to some old time radio shows even as far back as as high school. And I was interested in that went to college, first at a college called Kill Gore College, here in East Texas, and then to Stephen F Austin State University. And I was majoring in, first commercial art, and then art education. And I thought, well, if I can't go right into comics, you know, maybe I can just teach for a while. I thought I'll do that for a couple of years. I thought it wouldn't be that long. But while I was at Stephen F Austin State University, the campus radio station, I was so pleased to find out ran old time radio shows. This was in 1980 there was a professor named Dr Joe Oliver, who had a nightly program called theater of the air. And I would hear this voice come over the radio. He would run, he Well, one of the first, the very first 15 minute lemon Abner show I ever heard was played by Dr Oliver. He played Jack Benny. He played the whistler suspense, just a variety of them that he got from a syndicated package. And I would hear this voice afterwards, come on and say, It's jazz time. I'm Joe Oliver. And I thought, Where have I heard that voice? It was, it's just a magnificent radio voice. Years later, I found out, well, I heard that voice in Memphis when I was about 10 years old on W, R, E, C, radio and television. He was working there. He lived in Memphis about the same time we did. Heard him on the campus station at Nacogdoches, Texas. Didn't meet him in person until the late 90s, and it was just an amazing collection of coincidences. And now, of course, we're good friends. Now he's now the announcer for our audio comic strip. So it's amazing how all that came about. Well, I Michael Hingson  09:16 I remember listening to sort of the last few years of oval radio. I think it was, I don't remember the date now, whether it's 57 or 50 I think it's 57 the Kingston Trio had come out with the song Tom Dooley, and one day I was listening to K and X radio in Los Angeles. We lived in Palmdale, and I heard something about a show called suspense that was going to play the story of Tom Dooley. And I went, sounds interesting, and I wanted to know more about it, so I listened. And that started a weekly tradition with me every Sunday, listening to yours truly Johnny dollar and suspense, and they had a little bit of the FBI and peace and war. Then it's went into half and that that went off and Have Gun Will Travel came on, and then at 630 was Gun Smoke. So I listened to radio for a couple of hours every week, not every Sunday night, and thoroughly enjoyed it. And so that's how I really started getting interested in it. Then after radio went off the air a few stations out in California and on the LA area started playing old radio shows somebody started doing because they got the syndicated versions of the shadow and Sherlock Holmes with Sir John Gielgud and Sir Ralph Richardson. And I still maintain to this day that John Gielgud is the best Sherlock Holmes. No matter what people say about Basil Rathbone and I still think Sir John Gielgud was the best Sherlock Holmes. He was very, very good. Yeah, he was and so listen to those. But you know, radio offers so much. And even with, with, with what the whole lemon Abner shows today. My only problem with the lemon Abner shows today is they don't last nearly long enough. But that's another story. Donnie Pitchford  11:11 Are you talking about the comic strip adaptation? Okay, you know how long, how much art I would have to 11:21 do every week. Michael Hingson  11:25 Oh, I know, but they're, they're fun, and, you know, we, we enjoy them, but so you So you met Joe, and as you said, He's the announcer. Now, which is, which is great, but what were you doing then when you met him? What kind of work were you doing at the time? Donnie Pitchford  11:45 Well, of course, there was a gap there of about, I guess, 15 years after college, before I met him. And what ended up happening my first teaching job was an art job, a teaching art and graphic arts at a small high school in Hawkins, Texas, and that was a disaster. Wasn't a wasn't a very good year for me. And so I left that, and I had worked in the printing industry, I went back to that, and that was all during the time that the National London Abner society was being formed. And so I printed their earliest newsletters, which came out every other month. And we started having conventions in MENA, Arkansas and in the real Pine Ridge and the my fellow ossifers As we we call ourselves, and you hear these guys every week on the lemon Abner comic strip. Sam Brown, who lives in Illinois, Tim Hollis, from Alabama. Tim is now quite a published author who would might be a good guest for you one day, sure. And just two great guys. We had a third officer early on named Rex riffle, who had to leave due to various illnesses about 1991 but we started having our conventions every year, starting in 1985 we had some great guests. We brought in everybody we could find who worked with lemon Abner or who knew lemon Abner. We had their their head writer, Roswell Rogers. We had actors, I'm sure you've heard of Clarence Hartzell. He was Ben withers, of course, on the Old Vic and Sade show. He was Uncle Fletcher. We had Willard Waterman, parley Bayer, some of their announcers, Wendell Niles. And my memory is going to start failing me, because there were so many, but we had Bob's, Watson, Louise curry, who were in their first two movies. We had Kay Lineker, who was in their third movie. The list goes on and on, but we had some amazing when did Chester lock pass away? He passed away? Well, Tuffy passed away first, 1978, 78 and Chet died in 1980 sad. Neither of them, yeah, we didn't get to media. Yeah, we didn't meet either one of them. I've met Mrs. Lock I've met all of chet's children, several grandchildren. We spoke to Mrs. Goff on the phone a time or two, and also, tuffy's got toughie's daughter didn't get to meet them in person, but we met as many of the family as we could. Michael Hingson  14:32 Still quite an accomplishment all the way around. And so you you taught. You didn't have success. You felt really much at first, but then what you taught for quite a while, though, Donnie Pitchford  14:45 didn't you? Yes, I went back to the printing industry for about a year, and in the summer of 85 about two weeks before school started, I had got a call that they needed someone to teach Broadcast Journalism at. Carthage High School, and we had a department called CHS TV. I ran that for 25 years. I taught classes. We produced a weekly television program, weekly radio program. We did all kinds of broadcasts for the school district and promotional video. And then in the last I think it was the last 10 years or so that I worked there, we started an old time radio show, and we were trying to come up with a title for it, and just as a temporary placeholder, we called it the golden age of radio. Finally, we said, well, let's just use that, and I think it's been used by other people since, but, but that was the title we came up with. I think in 19 I think it was in 93 or 9495 somewhere in there. We started out. We just ran Old Time Radio, and the students, I would have them research and introduce, like, maybe 45 minutes of songs, of music, you know, from the 30s, 40s, maybe early 50s, big band and Sinatra and Judy Garland and you name it. Then, when the classes would change, we would always start some type of radio program that was pre recorded that would fill that time, so the next class could come in and get in place and and everybody participated, and they went out live over our cable television channel, and we would just run a graphic of a radio and maybe have some announcements or listing of what we were playing. And we did that for several years, usually maybe two or three times a year. And then in I think it was 2004 or so, we had an offer from a low power FM station, which was another another county over, and we started doing a Sunday night, one hour program each week. And I think we ended up doing close to 300 of those before I left. And so we got old time radio in there, one way or the other. Michael Hingson  17:03 Well, I remember. I remember, for me, I went to UC Irvine in the fall of 1968 and by the spring the last quarter of my freshman year, I had started getting some old radio shows. So started playing shows, and then in the fall, I started doing a three hour show on Sunday night called the Radio Hall of Fame, and we did radio every night. And what I didn't know until, actually, fairly recently, was our mutual friend Walden Hughes actually listened to my show on Sunday, and so did the gas means actually, but, but we had a low power station as well, but it made it up, and so people listened to it. And I've always been proud of the fact that during the fact that during the time I ran the Radio Hall of Fame, I'd heard of this show called 60 minutes with a guy named Mike Wallace, but never got to see it. And then it was only much later that I actually ended up starting to watch 60 Minutes. Course, I always loved to say I would have loved to have met, met Mike Wallace and never got to do it, but I always said he had criminal tendencies. I mean, my gosh, what do you think he was the announcer on radio for the Green Hornet, a criminal show, right? Sky King, a lot of criminals. Clearly the guy. Anyway, I would have been fun to meet him, but, Donnie Pitchford  18:31 and his name was Myron. Myron Wallach at the time. Wallach, you're right. I think that's right. Michael Hingson  18:37 But it was, it was fun and and so I've actually got some Sky King shows and green Hornets with him. So it's, it's kind of cool, but Right? You know, I still really do believe that the value of radio is it makes you imagine more. I've seen some movies that I really like for that the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers with Kevin McCarthy back in 1955 I thought was such a good movie because they didn't show the plants taking over the humans. It was all left to your imagination, which was so cool, and they changed all that in the later remake of it with Leonard Nimoy, which I didn't think was nearly as good, not nearly as suspenseful. But anyway, that's just my opinion. But radio, for me was always a and continues to be a part of what I like to do. And so I've been collecting shows and and enjoying and, of course, listening to lemon Abner, So what made you decide to finally end teaching? Donnie Pitchford  19:38 Well, you know, I could only do that so long. I was getting I was getting very tired, getting kind of burned out, and I had to have a change. There's something had to change. And I was able to take a few years early and retire, and I still the whole time I had a. That it was like a haunting feeling. I, you know, I wanted to be a cartoonist. I would pray, you know, you know, Lord, is there some way can I, can I get out of this? And can I do what I really want to do? And I had some mentors that was finally able to meet people that I would write letters to as a kid, a cartoonist and comic book editor named George Wildman was one of them. He was nice enough to answer my letters when I was a kid, and I'd send him drawings, and he would encourage me, or he would send little corrections on there, you know. And another one was a gentleman named high Eisemann, who passed away recently at age 98 on his birthday, but men like this inspired me, and that it kept at me through the years. I finally met George in 1994 at a convention of the the international Popeye fan club. And I'm I'm at high the same way, and also a writer named Nicola Cuddy, who wrote some Popeye comics. I met him the same way, same event, we all became friends, and I had a good friend named Michael Ambrose of Austin, Texas, who published a magazine devoted to the Charlton Comics company. Sadly, he's deceased now, but Mike and I were talking before I retired, and finally I got out of it. And he said, now that you're out of that job, how would you like to do some art? I said, That's what I want to do. So he gave me the opportunity to do my first published work, which was a portrait of artist George Wildman. It was on the cover of a magazine called Charlton spotlight, then I did some work for Ben Omar, who is bear Manor media publisher for some books that he was doing. One was Mel Blanc biography that Noel blank wrote, did some illustrations for that. This was all happening in 2010 and after that. So I was getting it was getting rolling, doing the kind of work I really wanted to do. And there's a gentleman named Ethan nobles in Benton, Arkansas, who wanted to interview me. I'd gotten, I don't know how he I forgot how he got in touch with me. Maybe he heard me on yesterday USA could be wanted to interview me about London Abner. And so he was starting a website called first Arkansas news. And somewhere in early 2011 we were talking, and I said, you know, you want this to be an online newspaper, right? He said, Yes. I said, What about comics? He said, I hadn't thought about that. So I said, Well, you know, you're a big Lum and Abner fan. What if we could we do a Lum and Abner comic strip? He said, Well, who would Where would I get? Who would do? And I said, Me. So I drew up some proposals, I drew some model sheets, and we did about four weeks of strips, and got approval from Chester lock Jr, and he suggested there's some things he didn't like. He said, The lum looks too sinister. He looks mean. Well, he's mad. He said he's mad at Abner. This won't happen every week. He said, Okay, I don't want LOM to be I said, Well, you know, they get mad at each other. That's part of the that's the conflict and the comedy Michael Hingson  23:30 at each other. Yeah. Donnie Pitchford  23:33 So we, we ironed it all out, and we came up with a financial agreement, and had to pay royalties and one thing and another, and we started publishing online in June 2011, and about six weeks later, the MENA newspaper, the MENA star in MENA, Arkansas, which was the birthplace of Lyman, Abner, Chet Locke and Norris Goff, they picked it up, and then we had a few other newspapers pick it up. And you know, we're not, we're not worldwide, syndicated in print, but we're getting it out there. And of course, we're always online, but and the first Arkansas news went under three or four years later, and so now we have our own website, which is Lum and Abner comics.com so that's where you can find us Michael Hingson  24:24 online. So where's Pine Ridge? Donnie Pitchford  24:28 Pine Ridge is about 18 miles from Mena, Arkansas. MENA is in western Arkansas, and Pine Ridge is about 18 miles east, I believe I'm trying to picture it in my mind, but it's it's down the road, and it actually exists. It was a little community originally named for a postmaster. It was named waters, waters, Arkansas, and in 1936 the real. At cuddleston. He was a real person who owned a store there in waters, and was friends with the locks and the golfs with their parents, as well as Chet and Tuffy. But he proposed a publicity stunt and an actual change of name to name the community Pine Ridge. So that's how that happened. Michael Hingson  25:24 Now, in the original 15 minute episodes, who is the narrator? Donnie Pitchford  25:28 Well, it depends what era their first one trying to remember. Now, Gene Hamilton was an early announcer in the Ford days, which was the early 30s. We don't have anything recorded before that. Charles Lyon was one of the early announcers, possibly for for Quaker Oats. I don't have any notes on this in front of me. I'm just going on memory here. Memory at the end of a long week. Gene Hamilton was their Ford announcer. Carlton brickert announced the Horlicks malt and milk did the commercials when they 1934 to 38 or so. Lou Crosby took over when they were sponsored by General Foods, by post them, the post them commercials, and Lou stayed with them on into the Alka Seltzer era. And his daughter, the celebrity daughter, is Kathie Lee Crosby, you may remember, right, and she and her sister Linda, Lou were a couple of our guests at the National lemon Avenue society convention in 1996 I think let's see. Crosby was Gene Baker came after Crosby, and then in the 30 minute days, was Wendell Niles. Wendell Niles, yeah, in the CBS the 30 minute series and Wendell. We also had him in Mina, super nice guy when it came, when it got into the later ones, 1953 54 I don't remember that announcer's name. That's when they got into the habit of having Dick Huddleston do the opening narration, which is why we now have Sam Brown as Dick Huddleston doing that every week. Michael Hingson  27:27 So was it actually Dick Huddleston? No, it Donnie Pitchford  27:30 was North golf, tough. He always played the part of Dick Huddleston. Okay, the only, the only time that, as far as I know, the only time the real dick Huddleston was on network radio, was at that ceremony in Little Rock Arkansas, when they changed the name of the town that the real dick Huddleston spoke at that event. And we actually, we discovered a recording of that. I was just gonna ask if there's a recording of that there is. Yeah, it's on 12 inch, 78 RPM discs. Wow. And they were probably the personal discs of lock and golf, and they weren't even labeled. And I remember spinning that thing when Sam Brown and I after we found it, it was down in Houston, and we brought them a batch of discs back, and I remember spinning that thing and hearing the theme song being played, I said, this sounds like a high school band. And suddenly we both got chills because we had heard that. I don't know if it was the Little Rock High School band or something, but it's like, Can this be? Yes, it was. It was. We thought it was long lost, but it was that ceremony. Wow. So that was a great find. Michael Hingson  28:45 Well, hopefully you'll, you'll play that sometime, or love to get a copy, but, Donnie Pitchford  28:50 yeah, we've, we have we played it on yesterday, USA. Oh, okay, so it's out there. Michael Hingson  28:57 Well, that's cool. Well, yeah, I wondered if Dick Huddleston actually ever was directly involved, but, but I can, can appreciate that. As you said, Tuffy Goff was the person who played him, which was, that's still that was pretty cool. They were very talented. Go ahead, Donnie Pitchford  29:19 I was gonna say that's basically tough. He's natural speaking voice, yeah, when you hear him as Dick Huddleston, Michael Hingson  29:24 they're very talented people. They played so many characters on the show. They did and and if you really listen, you could tell, but mostly the voices sounded enough different that they really sounded like different people all the time. Donnie Pitchford  29:41 Well, the fun thing are the episodes where, and it's carefully written, but they will, they will do an episode where there may be seven or eight people in the room and they get into an argument, or they're trying to all talk at the same time, and you completely forget that it's only two guys, because they will overlap. Those voices are just so perfectly overlapped and so different, and then you stop and you listen. So wait a minute, I'm only hearing two people at a time, but the effect is tremendous, the fact that they were able to pull that off and fool the audience. Michael Hingson  30:15 I don't know whether I'd say fool, but certainly entertained. Well, yeah, but they also did have other characters come on the show. I remember, yes, Diogenes was that was a lot of fun listening to those. Oh yeah, yeah, that was Frank Graham. Frank Graham, right, right, but, but definitely a lot of fun. So you eventually left teaching. You decided you accepted jobs, starting to do cartoons. What were some of the other or what, well, what were some of the first and early characters that you cartooned, or cartoons that you created, Donnie Pitchford  30:50 just, you mean, by myself or Well, or with people, either way, I did some things that were not published, you know, just just personal characters that I came up with it would mean nothing to anybody, but a little bit later on, I did a little bit of I did a cover for a Popeye comic book. Maybe 10 years ago, I finally got a chance to work with George Wildman, who was the fellow I talked about earlier, and it was some of the last work he did, and this was with Michael Ambrose of Argo press out of Austin, Texas. And we did some early characters that had been published by Charlton Comics. They had, they had characters, they were, they were rip offs. Let's be honest. You know Harvey had Casper the Friendly Ghost. Well, Charlton had Timmy, the timid ghost. There, there was Mighty Mouse. Well, Charlton Comics had atomic mouse, so and there was an atomic rabbit. And Warner Brothers had Porky Pig. Charlton had pudgy pig, but that was some of George's earliest work in the 1950s was drawing these characters, and George was just he was a master Bigfoot cartoonist. I mean, he was outstanding. And so Mike said, let's bring those characters back. They're public domain. We can use them. So I wrote the scripts. George did the pencil art. Well, he inked the first few, but Mike had me do hand lettering, which I don't do that much. So it was that was a challenge. And my friend high Iseman taught lettering for years and years, and so I was thinking, high is going to see this? This has to be good. So I probably re lettered it three times to get it right, but we did the very last story we did was atomic rabbit and pudgy pig was a guest star, and then George's character named brother George, who was a little monk who didn't speak, who lived, lived in a monastery, and did good deeds and all that sort of thing. He was in there, and this was the last thing we did together. And George said, you know, since I've got these other projects, he said, Do you think you can, you can ink this? So that was a great honor to actually apply the inks over George's pencil work. And I also did digital color, but those were some things I worked on, and, oh, at one point we even had Lum and Abner in the Dick Tracy Sunday comic strip, and that was because of a gentleman named Mike Curtis, who was the writer who lived in Arkansas, was very familiar with Lum and Abner, and he got in touch with me and asked, this was in 2014 said, Would it be possible for me to use Lum and Abner in a Sunday cameo? So I contacted the locks. First thing they first thing Chet said was how much I said, I don't think they're going to pay us. I felt like, Cedric, we hunt, no mom, you know. And I felt like he was squire skimp at the time, yeah, but I said, it's just going to be really good publicity. So he finally went for it, and Lum and Abner had a cameo in a Sunday Dick Tracy comic strip, and about four years later, they honored me. This was Mike Curtis, the writer, and Joe Staton, the artist, who was another guy that I grew up reading from as a teenager, just a tremendous artist, asked if they could base a character on me. And I thought, what kind of murderer is he going to be? You know, it was going to be idiot face or what's his name, you know. So no, he was going to be a cartoonist, and the name was Peter pitchblende. Off, and he was, he said his job was to illustrate a comic strip about a pair of old comedians. So, I mean, who couldn't be honored by that? Yeah, so I don't remember how long that story lasted, but it was an honor. I mean, it was just great fun. And then then I had a chance to write two weeks of Dick Tracy, which was fun. I wrote the scripts for it and and then there's some other things. I was able to work with John rose, a tremendously nice guy who is the current artist on Barney Google and Snuffy Smith. We did a story, a comic book story, on Barney Google on Snuffy Smith in a magazine called Charleton spotlight, and I did the colors, digital coloring for that. So just these are just great honors to me to get to work with people like that. And Nick Cuddy, I did some inking, lettering coloring on some of his work. So just great experience, and Michael Hingson  36:02 great people, going back to atomic rabbit and pudgy pig, no one ever got in trouble with, from Warner Brothers with that, huh? Donnie Pitchford  36:09 Well, not, not on atomic rabbit, however, pudgy pig created a problem because George was doing some art, and I think somebody from Warner Brothers said he looks too much like Porky, so the editor at the time said, make one of his ears hang down, make him look a little different. But pudgy didn't last long. Pudgy was only around maybe two or three issues of the comic book, so, but yeah, that's George. Said they did have some trouble with that. Michael Hingson  36:44 Oh, people, what do you do? Yeah, well, I know you sent us a bunch of photos, and we have some of the Dick Tracy ones and others that people can go see. But what? What finally got you all to start the whole lemon Abner society. Donnie Pitchford  37:07 Oh, well, that goes back to 1983 right, and I'll go back even farther than that. I told you that my dad had mentioned lemon Abner to me as a kid. Dr Joe Oliver played a 15 minute lemon Abner show on KSA you at Stephen F Austin State University. That got me. I was already into old time radio, but it was the next summer 1981 there's a radio station, an am station in Gilmer, Texas Christian radio station that started running Lum and Abner every day. First it was 530 in the evening, and then I think they switched it to 1215 or so. And I started listening, started setting up my recorder, recording it every day. And a friend of mine named David Miller, who was also a radio show collector, lived in the Dallas area, I would send them to him, and at first he wasn't impressed, but then suddenly he got hooked. And when he got hooked, he got enthusiastic. He started making phone calls. He called Mrs. Lock chet's widow and talked to her. He spoke to a fellow who had written a number of articles, George Lily, who was an early proponent or an early promoter of lemon Abner, as far as reruns in the 1960s and it was through George Lilly that I was put in touch with Sam Brown in Dongola, Illinois, and because he had contacted Mr. Lilly as well. And before long, we were talking, heard about this guy named Tim Hollis. Sam and I met in Pine Ridge for lemon Abner day in 1982 for the first time, and hit it off like long lost friends and became very good friends. And then in 84 I believe it was Sam and Tim and Rex riffle met again, or met for the first time together, I guess in Pine Ridge. And I wasn't there that time. But somehow, in all of that confusion, it was proposed to start the national lemon Abner society, and we started publishing the Jot them down journal in the summer of 1984 Michael Hingson  39:43 and for those who don't know the Jotham down journal, because the store that lemon Abner ran was the Jotham down store anyway, right? Donnie Pitchford  39:50 Go ahead, yes. And that was Tim's title. Tim created the title The Jotham down journal, and we started publishing and started seeking information. And it started as just a simple photocopy on paper publication. It became a very slick publication. In 1990 or 91 Sam started recording cassettes, reading the journals, because we were hearing from Blind fans that said, you know, I enjoy the journal. I have to have somebody read it to me. This is before screen readers. And of course, you know this technology better than I do, but before any type of technology was available, and Sam said, Well, I'll tell you. I'll just start reading it on tape and I'll make copies. Just started very simply, and from then on, until the last issue in in 2007 Sam would record a cassette every other month, or when we went quarterly, four times a year, and he would mail those to the the blind members, who would listen to those. And sometimes they would keep them, and sometimes they would return them for Sam to recycle. But incidentally, those are all online now, Michael Hingson  41:03 yeah, I've actually looked at a few of those. Those are kind of fun. So the London Avenue society got formed, and then you started having conventions. Donnie Pitchford  41:14 Yes, yes. First convention was in 1985 and we did a lot of things with we would do recreations. We would do a lot of new scripts, where, if we had someone that we got to the point where we would have people that hadn't worked with lemon Abner. So we would have lemon Abner meet the great Gildersleeve. Actually, Willard had worked on the lumen Abner half hour show at some point. I believe les Tremain had never worked directly with them, but he was well, he was in some Horlicks malted milk commercials in the 1930s and of course, the Lone Ranger was never on the London Abner show and vice versa, until we got hold of it. So we had Fred Foy in 1999 and he agreed to be the announcer, narrator and play the part of the Lone Ranger. So we did Lum and Abner meet the Lone Ranger, which was a lot of fun. We had parley bear, so Lum and Abner met Chester of Gun Smoke. And those were just a lot of fun to do. And Tim, Tim would write some of them, I would write some of them, or we would collaborate back and forth to come up with these scripts. Did love and amner, ever meet Superman? No, we never got to that. That would have been great. Yeah, if we could have come up with somebody who had played Superman, that would have been a lot of fun. We had lemon Abner meet Kathie Lee Crosby as herself. Yeah, they met Frank brazzi One time. That must be fun. It was a lot of fun. We had some people would recreate the characters. We had the lady who had played Abner's daughter, Mary Lee Rob replay. She played that character again, 50 years later, coming back home to see, you know, to see family. Several other things, we had London Abner meet Gumby one time. Of all things, we had Dow McKinnon as a guest. And we had Kay Lineker come back and reprise one of her roles, the role she played in the London Abner movie. Bob's Watson did that as well. Some years we didn't have a script, which I regret, but we had other things going on. We had anniversaries of London Abner movies that we would play. So whatever we did, we tailored it around our guest stars, like Dick Beals, Sam Edwards, Roby Lester, gee whiz. I know I'm leaving people out. Michael Hingson  43:52 Well, that's okay, but, but certainly a lot of fun. What? Yes, what? Cartoonist really influenced you as a child? Donnie Pitchford  44:01 Oh, wow. I would say the first thing I saw that got my attention was the Flintstones on on prime time television, you know, the Hanna Barbera prime time things certainly Walt Disney, the animation that they would run, that he would show, and the behind the scenes, things that would be on the Disney show, things like almost almost anything animated as a kid, got my attention. But Walter Lance, you know, on the Woody Woodpecker show used to have, he'd have little features about how animation was done, and that that inspired me, that that just thrilled me. And I read Fred lachel's Snuffy Smith Chester Gould's Dick Tracy. Tracy, which that was a that's why the Dick Tracy connection, later was such a big deal for me. Almost anything in the Sunday comics that was big. Foot. In other words, the cartoony, exaggerated characters are called, sometimes called Bigfoot, Bigfoot cartooning, or Bigfoot characters. Those were always the things I looked for, Bugs Bunny, any of the people that worked on those some were anonymous. And years later, I started learning the names of who drew Popeye, you know, like LZ seagar, the originator, or bud sagendorf or George Wildman, and later high eysman. But people like that were my heroes. Later on, I was interested in I would read the Batman comics, or I would see Tarzan in the newspaper. I admired the work of Russ Manning. Michael Hingson  45:49 Do you know the name Tom Hatton? Yes, I do. Yeah. Yes. Tom did Popeye shows on KTLA Channel Five when I was growing up, and he was famous for, as he described it, squiggles. He would make a squiggle and he would turn it into something. And he was right on TV, which was so much fun. Donnie Pitchford  46:09 We had a guy in Memphis who did the same thing. His name was, he's known as Captain Bill, C, A, P, you know, Captain Bill. And he did very much the same thing. He'd have a child come up, I think some, in some cases, they're called drools. Is one word for them. There was a yeah, in Tim hollis's area, there was cousin Cliff Holman who did that. And would he might have a kid draw a squiggle, and then he would create something from it right there on the spot, a very similar type of thing, or a letter of the alphabet, or your initials, that sort Michael Hingson  46:43 of thing. Yeah. Tom did that for years. It was fun. Of course, I couldn't see them, but he talked enough that I knew what was going on. It's kind of fun. My brother loved them, yeah? So later on, when you got to be a teenager and beyond what cartoonist maybe influenced you more? Donnie Pitchford  47:03 Well, I would have to say George, probably because I was corresponding with him, right? Also, I would see the work of Carl Barks, who created Uncle Scrooge McDuck and the Donald Duck comics and all that. His stuff was all in reprint at that time, he was still living, but I didn't know he could be contacted. I didn't try to write to it, right? Years later, years later, I did get an autograph, which was, was very nice. But those people, a lot of people, Neil Adams, who did Batman, the guys at Charlton Comics, Steve Ditko, who was the CO creator of spider man, but he had a disagreement with Stan Lee, and went back to Charlton Comics and just turned out 1000s of pages, but his work was was inspirational. Another was Joe Staton, who was working at Charleton comics, who I got to work with on several projects later on, and I would say just all of those guys that I was reading at the time. Pat Boyette was another Charlton artist. I tend to gravitate toward the Charlton company because their artists weren't contained in a house style. They were allowed to do their own style. They didn't pay as much. But a lot of them were either older guys that said, I'm tired of this, of the DC Marvel system. I want to just, you know, have creative freedom. Charlton said, come on. And so they would work there and less stress, less money, probably one guy named Don Newton started there and became a legend in the industry at other companies. So I found all of those guys inspiring, and I felt I could learn from all of them. Michael Hingson  48:59 Well, you always wanted to be a cartoonist. Did you have any other real career goals, like, was teaching a goal that you wanted to do, or was it just cartooning it? Donnie Pitchford  49:07 Well, it was just a secondary, you know, as I said, when I started, I thought, I'll just do that for a few years. You know, I didn't know it was going to be like 27 but I we had a lot of success. We had, I had some student groups that would enter video competitions. And for 20 straight years, we placed either first, second or third in state competition with one Summit, one entry, another or another every year. And that was notable. I mean, I give the kids the credit for that. But then about five or six of those years, we had what we call state championship wins, you know, we were like the number one project in the state of Texas. So, you know, we had some great success, I think, in that so a lot of years there, I really, you know, that was a blessing to me. Was that career, you. Well, it just, it just got to be too much time for change. After a while, Michael Hingson  50:05 was art just a talent that you had, and cartoon drawing a talent you had, or, I don't remember how much you said about did you have any real special training as such? Donnie Pitchford  50:14 Well, all of my training was, I just couldn't afford to go to a specialized school. You know, at one time, the Joe Kubert School opened just about the time I graduated high school, it was in New Jersey. I just couldn't make that happen, so I went to state colleges and universities and did the best I could. I took commercial art classes, drawing classes, design classes, even ceramics, which came in very handy when I did some sculpting here in the last eight or nine years and worked as an assistant to a sculptor named Bob harness who lives here in Carthage, but I never had any actual comic strip slash comic book training, so I learned as much of that as I could from guys like George wild. And then after I started the lemon Avenue comic strip, an artist named Joe, named Jim Amish, who worked for Marvel, did a lot of work for the Archie Comics. And tremendous anchor is his. He's really a tremendous anchor, and does a lot of ink work over other artists pencils. Jim would call and say, he said, I want to give you some advice. I'm like, okay, at 3am he's still giving me advice. So I'd go around for two or three days feeling like a failure, but then I would, I would think about all the lessons, you know, that he had told me. And so I learned a lot from Jim and tremendous, tremendous guy. And I would listen to what high, sometimes high would call up and say, Why did you use that purple beg your pardon. So it was fun. I mean, those fellows would share with me, and I learned a great deal from those guys. Michael Hingson  52:11 Are you in any way passing that knowledge on to others today? Donnie Pitchford  52:16 I don't know that I am. I've had an offer or two to do some teaching. I just don't know if I'm if I'm going to get back into that or not. Yeah, I'm so at this point, focused on, quote, unquote, being a cartoonist and trying to make that, that age five dream, a reality, that I'm not sure I'm ready to do that again. And you know, I'm not, I'm not 21 anymore. Michael Hingson  52:45 I didn't know whether you were giving advice to people and just sort of informally doing it, as opposed to doing formal teaching. Donnie Pitchford  52:51 Well, informally, yes, I mean, if anybody asks, you know, I'll be glad to share whatever I can. But yeah, I'm not teaching any classes at this point. Michael Hingson  53:01 Well, you have certainly taken lemon Abner to interesting places in New Heights. One, one thing that attracted me and we talked about it before, was in 2019, lemon Abner in Oz. That was fun. Donnie Pitchford  53:17 Well, the credit for that goes to Tim Hollis. Tim wrote that as a short story years ago when he was first interested in lemon Abner. And I don't know if he ever had that published through the International oz society or not. I don't remember, but Tim later turned that into a radio script when we had a batch of guests. This was in 2001 we had, let's see Sam Edwards, Dick Beals, Roby Lester and Rhoda Williams. And each of them had done something related to Oz, either the children's records or storybook records or animation or something. They were involved somewhere in some type of Oz adaptation. So Tim turned his short story into a radio script that we performed there at the convention. So that was a lot of fun. And then he suggested, Why don't I turn that into a comic strip story? So that's what we did. But that was fun, yeah, and we used the recordings of those people because they had given us permission, you know, to use a recording however we saw fit. The only problem is we had a mistake. The fellow that was running the sound had a dead mic and didn't know it. Oh, gosh. So some of them are bit Off mic in that audio, but we did the best. I did the best I could Michael Hingson  54:40 with it's it sounded good. I certainly have no complaints. 54:45 Thank you for that. Michael Hingson  54:47 I I said no complaints at all. I think it was really fun and very creative. And it's kind of really neat to see so much creativity in terms of all the stuff that that you do. As a cartoonist, me having never seen cartoons, but I learned intellectually to appreciate the talent that goes into it. And of course, you guys do put the scripts together every week, which is a lot of fun to be able to listen to them well. Donnie Pitchford  55:17 And that's what that was, the audience I hoped that we would would tap into right there and it, it was guys like you that would would talk to me and say, What am I going to do? You know, I can't see it. So that's why the audio idea came about. And it's taken on a life of its own, really. And we've got Mark Ridgway, who has created a lot of musical cues for us that we use and Michael Hingson  55:45 who plays the organ? Donnie Pitchford  55:47 That's Mark Ridgway. It is Mark, okay, yes, yes. And it's actually digital, I'm sure. I think it's a digital keyboard, Michael Hingson  55:55 yeah, but it is. It's a, it's a really good sounding one, though. Donnie Pitchford  55:59 Yes, yes. There are a few cues that I did, which probably are the ones that don't sound so good, like if we ever need really bad music. If you remember the story we did, and I don't remember the name of it, what do we call it anyway? Lum tries to start a soap opera. Think this was about a year ago. Yeah, and Cedric is going to play, I don't remember it was an organ or a piano, and I don't remember what he played, but whatever it was, I think was Mary Had Michael Hingson  56:32 a Little Lamb, Mary's, Mary Had a Little Lamb on the piano. Sort of kind played. Donnie Pitchford  56:35 It was played very badly, well that, yes, it was on purpose. When mom plays lum tries to play the saxophone. That was me, and I hadn't played this. I used to play the sax. In fact, I played in a swing orchestra here in Carthage, Texas for about five years back in from the early 90s. And so I had this idea, and I hadn't played the horn probably since, probably in 20 years, and his. So I got it out, and I thought, you know, it's gonna sound terrible because it needs maintenance, but it doesn't matter. It's lump playing it, so I got to play really badly. Michael Hingson  57:14 It was perfect. It was perfect, Donnie Pitchford  57:16 yeah, because it had to sound bad. Michael Hingson  57:19 How do y'all create all these different plots. I remember so many, like the buzzard, you know, and, oh yeah, that was fun. And so many. How do you come up with those? Donnie Pitchford  57:28 Well, I used to get some really good ideas while mowing the yard. Don't ask me, why? Or I get ideas. I get ideas in the weirdest thing, weirdest places. Sometimes I have ideas in the shower. You know, I said, I better write this down. Sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night with an idea, but there the ideas just come to me. Yeah? The buzzard was fun. I'd had that one. Pretty creative. Yeah, the one about, the one about, let me see. Oh, there was one we did, where wasn't the buzzard? What was that other one? I called the Whisper? Yeah, there was a strange voice that was coming lum thought it was coming from his radio. And he turns his radio off, and He still hears it, and it was a villain who had somehow hypnotized everyone so that they wouldn't see him and he would use his voice only. And then there's a character I came up with, and let me see Larry Gasman played it, and I called him Larry John Walden, and he was the only guy he was blind. He was the only guy that wasn't hypnotized because he couldn't see the you know, I use the old thing about the watch in front of the eyes. I mean, he was the only guy that wasn't hypnotized, so he wasn't fooled by the whisper, and he could track him, because his hearing was so acute that he was able to find him. In fact, I think he could hear his watch ticking or something like that. So he was the hero of that piece. But, well, I just, I just think up ideas and write them down. Tim Hollis has written some of the scripts, maybe three or four for me, I've adapted some scripts that London Abner did that were never broadcast or that were never recorded. Rather, I've adapted a few, written several, and I keep saying, Well, when I completely run out of ideas, I'll just have to quit. Michael Hingson  59:32 Well, hopefully that never happens. What? What are your future plans? Donnie Pitchford  59:38 Well, right now, there's nothing major in the works other than just maintaining the strip, trying to continue it, trying to make it entertaining, and hopefully doing a little work on the website and getting it into the hands of more people. And I'd like to increase. Least newspaper coverage, if at all possible. And because this thing doesn't, you know, it's got to pay for itself somehow. So you know, I'm not getting rich by any means. But you know, I want to keep it fun. I want to keep having fun with it. Hopefully people will enjoy it. Hopefully we can reach younger readers, listeners, and hopefully lemon Abner can appeal to even younger audiences yet, so that we can keep those characters going. Michael Hingson  1:00:29 Yeah, there's so much entertainment there. I hope that happens now in the the life of Donnie Pitchford. Is there a wife and kids? Donnie Pitchford  1:00:40 Yes, there's a wife of almost 40 years. We unfortunately don't have any children. We've almost feel like we adopted several children all the years we were teaching. We we've adopted several cats along the way. And so, you know, we've had cats as pets for almost ever, since we were married. But that's she's, she's great, you know, she's, she's been my best friend and supporter all these years. And we were members of first Methodist Church here in Carthage, Texas, and doing some volunteer work there, and helping to teach Sunday school, and very involved and active in that church. Michael Hingson  1:01:19 So I have a cat, and I hear her outside, not outside the house, but outside the the office here, she wants me to go feed her, and we, we shaved her yesterday because her hair gets long and Matt's very easily. So she got shaved yesterday. So she's probably seeking a little vengeance from that too, but, but my wife and I were married 40 years. She passed away in November of 2022 so it's me and stitch the cat and Alamo the dog, and Karen is monitoring us somewhere. And as I tell everyone, I've got to continue to be a good kid, because if I'm not, I'm going to hear about it. So I got to be good. But it's a lot of fun. Well, I want to thank you for being with us today. This has been a lot of fun. I've learned a lot, but it's just been great to have another podcast talking about old radio shows. And you said again, if people want to reach out, they can go to lemon Abner comics.com if people want to talk to you about doing any kind of cartooning or anything like that. What's the best way they can do that? Donnie Pitchford  1:02:24 Well, they can go to the London Abner dot lumen, Abner comics.com website, and there's a contact a link right there at the top of the page. So yeah, they can contact me through that. Probably that's the easiest way to do it. Michael Hingson  1:02:37 Okay, well, I want to thank you again for being here, and I want to thank all y'all out there. That's how they talk in Texas, right? It's all y'all for everybody. Donnie Pitchford  1:02:46 Well, some of them do, and some of them in Arkansas do too. Well, yeah. Michael Hingson  1:02:49 And then there's some who don't, yeah, y'all means everything, and it Speaker 1  1:02:54 don't, yeah, I don't think squire skimp says it that way. Michael Hingson  1:02:58 Well, Squire, you know, whatever it takes. But I want to thank you all for being here, and please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening or watching the podcast. Donnie would appreciate it. I would appreciate it, and also give us a review. We'd love to get your reviews, so please do that. If you can think of anyone else who ought to be a guest, and I think Donnie has already suggested a few. So Donnie as well, anyone else who ought to come on the podcast, we'd love it. Appreciate you introducing us, and you know, we'll go from there. And I know at some point in the future, the Michael hingson Group Inc is going to be a sponsor, because we've started that process for lemon. Abner, yes, thank you. Thank you. So I want to, I want to thank love and Squire for that 1:03:45 years. Well, it's been my pleasure. Michael Hingson  1:03:50 Well, thank you all and again, really, seriously, Donnie, I really appreciate you being here. This has been a lot of fun. So thank you for coming. Donnie Pitchford  1:03:58 Thank you. It's been a great honor. I've appreciated it very much. Michael Hingson  1:04:06 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Seattle is in earthquake country, and our most recent big reminder of that came 25 years ago this Saturday, when the Nisqually Earthquake shook the Puget Sound region. Seattle’s historic Pioneer Square neighborhood was hard hit, and a lot changed as a result of it. We'll explore how the neighborhood has grappled with its vulnerability to earthquakes while preserving its history. We can only make Seattle Now because listeners support us. Tap here to make a gift and keep Seattle Now in your feed. Got questions about local news or story ideas to share? We want to hear from you! Email us at seattlenow@kuow.org, leave us a voicemail at (206) 616-6746 or leave us feedback online.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Boeing is once again pulling critical aerospace work out of Washington state — shifting engineering roles tied to major aircraft programs to South Carolina — while simultaneously cutting 17,000 jobs nationwide as of October 2024. For Seattle and the broader Puget Sound region, this is more than corporate restructuring — it's a direct blow to high-wage jobs, skilled labor, and Washington's economic foundation.On this episode of Left Coast News, we break down why Boeing's decisions are bad news for Seattle, why Washington keeps losing aerospace jobs to right-to-work states, and how poor leadership, labor hostility, and political pressure are hollowing out one of the state's most important industries. If Boeing was once the backbone of Washington's economy, the cracks are now impossible to ignore.#Boeing #SeattleJobs #WashingtonState #AerospaceIndustry #JobCuts #EconomicImpact #LeftCoastNews #ManufacturingJobs #UnionJobs #TechJobs #Workforce #CorporateAmerica #SeattleEconomy #BoeingLayoffs #StateEconomy

Today's guest on The Long View is Hilary Wiek. Hilary is a principal analyst at PitchBook, where she leads PitchBook's coverage of fund strategies and performance, publishing primary research on the alternative space. Hilary also leads PitchBook's coverage of the ESG and impact investing space. Hilary has over 20 years of experience in asset owner, manager, and advisory roles. Prior to joining PitchBook, she was the director of investments at the Saint Paul & Minnesota Foundations, where she handled portfolio management, impact and ESG investment, investment due diligence and monitoring, and investment operations. Before that, she worked in senior positions at Segal Rogerscasey, the South Carolina Retirement Systems Investment Commission, Buckingham Financial Group, Dayton Power & Light, and KeyCorp. Wiek received a master's degree in finance and economics from Case Western Reserve University and a bachelor's degree in business leadership and finance from the University of Puget Sound. She is based in PitchBook's Seattle office. PitchBook is a Morningstar company. Episode Highlights 00:00:00 Background in the Private Markets and Joining PitchBook 00:04:49 Drivers of Private Market Slowdown in 2026 and Pockets of Outperformance 00:14:15 Key Lessons for Investing in Private Market Funds 00:18:12 Private Market Fees, Hidden Volatility, and Valuations 00:20:38 Evergreen Investment Growth, Interval Funds, and Questions Investors Should Ask 00:32:26 Is It Worth It to Invest in Private Markets? 00:36:50 ESG, Impacting Investing, and Key Themes for 2026 00:41:05 Private Market Exposure in 401(k)s PitchBook Reports Discussed Benchmarking and Returns: Why Are There So Many Numbers? Evergreen Funds: We Have Questions The Evergreen Evolution The New Face of Private Markets in Your 401(k) US Evergreen Fund Landscape 2025 Impact Investing Update If you have a comment or a guest idea, please email us at TheLongView@Morningstar.com. Follow Christine Benz (@christine_benz) and Ben Johnson (@MstarBenJohnson) on X, and Christine Benz, Amy Arnott, and Ben Johnson on LinkedIn. Visit Morningstar.com for new research and insights from Christine, Ben, and Amy. Subscribe to Christine's weekly newsletter, Improving Your Finances. If you want more Morningstar podcasts, check out The Morning Filter and Investing Insights. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I had the chance to sit down with Douglas Sackman, a history professor at the University of Puget Sound, for a conversation that feels especially timely. Professor Sackman joined me to talk about the Gilded...

If you've ever wondered why you can only fish for Chinook a handful of days a year while anglers in Canada are limiting out on fish from your own backyard — this episode is for you. Jamie breaks down the North of Falcon salmon season process from the ground up: where it came from, why it works the way it does, and most importantly, what you can do right now to get involved before the 2026 seasons are locked in. Timestamped Sections00:00 — Introduction: Why Jamie rush-recorded this episode 01:45 — What's at stake: Chinook seasons, Marine Area 7, and fishing for the next generation 04:20 — Big picture overview: halibut seasons expanding vs. Chinook contracting 05:45 — A brief history of Washington salmon fishing in the 1950s–70s 07:30 — Tribal fishing rights, treaty negotiations, and the Fish Wars 09:50 — The Boldt Decision (1974): what Judge George Boldt ruled and why it still governs everything 12:15 — Co-management: tribes as equal partners in science, decision-making, and enforcement 14:00 — What "North of Falcon" actually means and where the name comes from 15:45 — How the annual North of Falcon process works (February through June timeline) 18:00 — The ESA listing of Puget Sound Chinook (1999) and NOAA's annual biological opinion 19:30 — Common Q&A: Why only 5–6 days? Why can Canadians fish our fish? Hatcheries? Seals? 23:45 — Four action items to take right now before seasons are locked inKey TakeawaysThe Boldt Decision split the harvestable salmon 50/50 between tribes and non-tribal fishers — and that split is federal law, not something WDFW chose.Tribes aren't just participants in the North of Falcon process — they're co-managers with equal say in the science and decision-making.Marine Area 7's season shrunk from 92 days to 3–6 because constraining Chinook stocks that migrate through it are ESA-listedSalmon don't respect borders. Washington hatchery Chinook migrate to Canadian waters, and the Pacific Salmon Treaty governs how those fish are harvested.Hatchery production of Chinook in Puget Sound has roughly doubled since the ESA listing — without hatcheries, there would be very few fish left to target.Resources MentionedWDFW Public Meeting Schedule: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/management/north-falcon/public-meetingsFish Washington App: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulations/appNOAA — Puget Sound Chinook: https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/west-coast/endangered-species-conservation/puget-sound-chinook-salmonHistoryLink — Boldt Decision: https://historylink.org/file/21084NW Indian Fisheries Commission: https://nwifc.orgEpisode 52 — The Science of Salmon: Fisheries Experts Reveal the Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDhEf5IusdUAnglers Unlimited Gold: https://anglersunlimited.co/goldAttend the February 27th North of Falcon meeting — in person in Olympia or via Zoom starting at 9:00 AM. Register at This link

Lalita du Perron talks to Trishna Senapaty, Mellon Postdoc and Teaching Fellow in the Crime, Law and Justice Studies Program at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Washington, about her work in open prisons in North India, and how communities are built in and around them.

Layoffs have sent a shockwave through the tech sector. Thousands of workers around Puget Sound are suddenly or soon to be out of work. Puget Sound Business Journal Tech reporter Rick Morgan is here to talk about what’s next for laid off workers. We can only make Seattle Now because listeners support us. Tap here to make a gift and keep Seattle Now in your feed. Got questions about local news or story ideas to share? We want to hear from you! Email us at seattlenow@kuow.org, leave us a voicemail at (206) 616-6746 or leave us feedback online.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

418 Mindful Presence   Being mindful of our presence in the lives around us is an integral part of the human experience, whether it be for our own personal comfort and growth or to ease the lives of those around us. Though we all have our own unique reasoning and paths to walk, it is important to remember we don't have to travel alone and by working together we can all get to the finish line. In today's episode Sarah Elkins and Renée Smith discuss the importance of community in becoming the best version of yourself as well as the importance of developing our problem solving skills to always be able to take action.   Highlights There is no linear path, take your time and find your own. Connecting with strangers through lived experience. Teaching others your toolset and learning others toolset so that everyone succeeds.     Quotes "Being able to be present with them in a trusting way." "A problem is a gap between where you are now and where you want to be." "Maybe you don't have what you need to take action." Dear Listeners it is now your turn, I'm really curious to hear what was sticky for you in today's conversation. Whether you're thinking now about your presence, about how you demonstrate love and support and care for people especially those that are strangers, those that you might disagree with. I know how hard it can be, how challenging it is to feel love for people that have different perspectives than us right now, more than ever before. And I'm here to say that if you can allow that open moment where you express your own experience and they hear it and that you are sharing this to connect with them and not to change their mind, this leaves the door open for them to carry that forward.         And, as always, thank you for listening.    About Renée Renée Smith, MSOD (she/her) is the strategist leaders turn to when they want to make their workplace more loving and human. As the creator of Love-Centered Leadership and the Human Workplace EX Roadmap, she helps people and results rise together. The founder and CEO of the consultancy, A Human Workplace, and the non-profit Center for a Loving Workplace, Renée promotes loving workplace cultures, primarily through research, education, impact projects. She led award-winning culture work as a state executive and served in the Governor's Office as Director of Workplace Transformation for the State of Washington. Smith is a researcher, writer, and speaker who's reached hundreds of audiences in eleven countries, making the business case for love. She earned a Master of Science in Organization Development from Pepperdine University and a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt from the University of Washington. She lives in Tacoma with her husband Jim in a multi-generational household with her son and his family. When she is not traveling, she enjoys sculling on the Puget Sound, watercolor painting, and hosting dinner parties. Be sure to check out Renée's LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram! As well as Loving Workplace, Renée Smith Speaks, and A Human Workplace! About Sarah "Uncovering the right stories for the right audiences so executives, leaders, public speakers, and job seekers can clearly and actively demonstrate their character, values, and vision." In my work with coaching clients, I guide people to improve their communication using storytelling as the foundation of our work together. What I've realized over years of coaching and podcasting is that the majority of people don't realize the impact of the stories they share - on their internal messages, and on the people they're sharing them with. My work with leaders and people who aspire to be leaders follows a similar path to the interviews on my podcast, uncovering pivotal moments in their lives and learning how to share them to connect more authentically with others, to make their presentations and speaking more engaging, to reveal patterns that have kept them stuck or moved them forward, and to improve their relationships at work and at home. The audiobook, Your Stories Don't Define You, How You Tell Them Will is now available! Included with your purchase are two bonus tracks, songs recorded by Sarah's band, Spare Change, in her living room in Montana. Be sure to check out the Storytelling For Professionals Course as well to make sure you nail that next interview!

Staring at your fish finder and seeing nothing but squiggly lines? Or worse—a completely blank screen while you're trolling for salmon in Puget Sound?In this episode, Jamie breaks down the four essential fish finder skills that'll help you stop guessing and start catching more salmon in Puget Sound and Washington waters. You'll learn how to dial in your settings, interpret what you're actually seeing, and make real-time decisions that put your gear right in front of the fish.Episode Overview: Why leaving your sonar on "auto" is sabotaging your catch rate How to choose the right frequency for your depth What those arches and bait balls actually mean—and what they don't Simple adjustments that will help you catch more fish consistently Timestamps: 00:00 – Why your fish finder feels overwhelming 01:00 – The 4 essential fish finder skills 02:00 – Using the right frequency for your depth 03:00 – Understanding what your sonar is showing you 04:00 – Don't be afraid to tweak your settings 05:00 – Fish finder decision making: React to what you see 06:00 – Making it a habit and final takeawaysKey Takeaways: Low frequency (50-83 kHz) = zoomed out, wide view with less detail. High frequency (200 kHz) = zoomed in, sharp detail on smaller area. Big arches don't always mean big fish—interpret shape, density, and what's around it. Your downrigger ball sits higher than the depth you set it at due to momentum and angle. When you see bait or marks, adjust your gear depth immediately—don't just observe. If you're not watching your fish finder consistently, you're missing fish.Resources & Links: Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife fishing regulations: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulationsWant the full structured learning experience? Join the waitlist for Anglers Unlimited Gold membership at https://anglersunlimited.co/goldAbout the Podcast Fishing for a Reason is the Pacific Northwest saltwater fishing education podcast for new anglers and families who want to catch more salmon, halibut, lingcod, shrimp and crab in Washington waters. Hosted by Jamie & Scott Propst from Anglers Unlimited, each episode delivers practical techniques, local knowledge, and expert insights to help you get off the couch and into the fish. Perfect for relocated professionals, military families, and boaters who are just getting into fishing.

Today, Thursday, February 5 on Urban Forum Northwest on 1150 AM KKNW/www1150kknw.com, on Alexa and my Podcast 2:03-3:00 pm (PST) my guest for the hour are: *Lem Howell, Retired Civil Rights Attorney comments on the Trump Administration's approach to immigration and the tactics being employed by ICE. *Hayward Evans, Co Convener, Seattle King County Martin Luther King Jr. Commemoration Committee provides an update on the organizations Black History event that will be held on Saturday, February 21 at Holgate Street Church of Christ. *Ramon Bryant Braxton, the Conductor of Songs of Black Folk 2026 that will present "Music of Resistance & Hope" that will feature India Arie on Saturday, February 14 at the Federal Way Performing Arts & Event Center. There will be two shows at 4:00pm and 7:30pm. *Stephanie Johnson-Toliver, President, Black Heritage Society of Washington State, Inc. The organization will honor the trailblazing legacies of Washington State Black Judges on Tuesday, February 10 at 7:00 pm at the Museum of History and Industry. *Kimi Ginn, President and CEO, Vibrant Schools of Puget Sound is hosting an event recognizing the 100th year of Black History Observances . The event will be held at Lakes High School in Pierce County on Sunday, February15 3-5 pm. The Keynote Speaker is Dr. Carl Mack, former President of the Seattle King County NAACP. *Author L. Stanley Bascomb who has two books for sale, The Parameters of Positivity and Poetry in the Key of Black. Urban Forum Northwest streams live at www.1150kknw.com. Visit us at www.urbanforumnw.com for archived programs and relevant information. Like us on facebook. X@Eddie_Rye.

Today, Thursday, February 5 on Urban Forum Northwest on 1150 AM KKNW/www1150kknw.com, on Alexa and my Podcast 2:03-3:00 pm (PST) my guest for the hour are:*Lem Howell, Retired Civil Rights Attorney comments on the Trump Administration's approach to immigration and the tactics being employed by ICE.*Hayward Evans, Co Convener, Seattle King County Martin Luther King Jr. Commemoration Committee provides an update on the organizations Black History event that will be held on Saturday, February 21 at Holgate Street Church of Christ.*Ramon Bryant Braxton, the Conductor of Songs of Black Folk 2026 that will present "Music of Resistance & Hope" that will feature India Arie on Saturday, February 14 at the Federal Way Performing Arts & Event Center. There will be two shows at 4:00pm and 7:30pm.*Stephanie Johnson-Toliver, President, Black Heritage Society of Washington State, Inc. The organization will honor the trailblazing legacies of Washington State Black Judges on Tuesday, February 10 at 7:00 pm at the Museum of History and Industry.*Kimi Ginn, President and CEO, Vibrant Schools of Puget Sound is hosting an event recognizing the 100th year of Black History Observances . The event will be held at Lakes High School in Pierce County on Sunday, February15 3-5 pm. The Keynote Speaker is Dr. Carl Mack, former President of the Seattle King County NAACP.*Author L. Stanley Bascomb who has two books for sale, The Parameters of Positivity and Poetry in the Key of Black.Urban Forum Northwest streams live at www.1150kknw.com. Visit us at www.urbanforumnw.com for archived programs and relevant information. Like us on facebook. X@Eddie_Rye.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Seattle's downtown office vacancy just hit a record 39.1%—nearly four out of every ten commercial spaces are empty. But sure, let's keep blaming remote work instead of the real culprits: sky-high taxes, a millionaire tax driving out wealth, America's highest minimum wage killing restaurants, and a mayor who's never successfully run anything now experimenting with socialist grocery stores. Meanwhile, Amazon and Microsoft are fleeing to Bellevue, tech layoffs are accelerating, and "McStabbies" remains a worldwide symbol of Seattle's public safety disaster. The city has one of America's most beautiful settings overlooking Puget Sound, yet businesses are choosing literally anywhere else. When private companies can't make the math work and your solution is more taxes and DEI hires, you're not in a "struggle"—you're in a self-inflicted economic nosedive. Is anyone surprised that 40 years of Democrat control produced the highest vacancy rate in North America? How much more evidence do Seattle voters need that these policies destroy prosperity? Drop your thoughts below, and if you're tired of watching beautiful cities commit economic suicide, subscribe for more reality checks the mainstream media won't give you.

Tacoma, Washington songwriter Kye Alfred Hillig returns with “Ezekiel Bobbing For Apples,” the new single arriving January 7, 2026, and the first release from his upcoming album The All-Night Costume Company, due March 4. Built around haunting guitar leads and striking male-female harmonies that nod to the emotional gravity of classic country duets like Gram Parsons and Emmylou Harris, the track introduces Hillig at his most direct and melodic. It sits between alternative-country and indie rock, carrying the tension and plainspoken urgency of a songwriter raised on punk rooms rather than polish. Hillig has spent more than two decades working the margins of the Puget Sound music scene, balancing songwriting with the realities of work, responsibility, and long stretches outside the spotlight. Since stepping fully into his solo work in 2012, he's released a deep catalog of records defined by sharp hooks and lyrical candor. His songs often land where discomfort and dark humor overlap, more interested in honesty than resolution. Fans of Father John Misty, The Jayhawks, and early-era The Shins will recognize the instinct for narrative and melody, even as Hillig's voice and perspective remain distinctly his own. “Ezekiel Bobbing For Apples” moves with restless intent. The arrangement is lean but charged, guitars circling and cutting while the rhythm section pushes steadily forward. The blend of voices adds weight rather than gloss, creating moments of tension and release that feel earned instead of ornamental. Lyrically, the song sits with a kind of open-eyed vulnerability. “It's really a bit of singing up from the bottom of the well,” Hillig says. “Everything feels kind of screwed and hopeless at times, but the message is I am with you. There's something freeing about saying that out loud.” Shaped by years of DIY spaces and unvarnished rooms, the song carries a quiet defiance, even as it stretches into broader country and indie-rock forms. It never pauses to second-guess itself. Kye Alfred Hillig Online INSTAGRAM | SPOTIFY | BANDCAMP | FACEBOOK Checkout my YouTube Channel with long form interviews from the Subversives | the History of Lowest of the Low. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9d1VSeOHYuxFWKuRdmn9j8UTW6AHwS_fAlso my Weekly Tour Vlog is up an live on the YouTubeshttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9d1VSeOHYuwphwhc4zd0VgY66f1OUQZp Pledge monthly with Patreon https://www.patreon.com/apologueShop Apologue products at http://apologue.ca/shopCheck out new Four Square Here: https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/brighton-beach-ephttps://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/seven-oh-sevenhttps://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/industry-at-home–21st-anniversary-remix-remasteredhttps://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/when-weeks-were-weekends

In Washington State, 42% of Black households have zero net worth. It's a statistic echoed in Black communities across the nation--including here in Cleveland. The legacy of historical policies like segregation and redlining has impacted both homeownership and opportunities to build generational wealth today. Now, skyrocketing rents and a shrinking housing supply have put homeownership out of reach for many. But what if it doesn't have to be this way?rnrnEmerging in 2021, the Black Home Initiative is a new regional effort based in the Seattle-Tacoma region that seeks to target the racial inequities at the core of the housing ecosystem. The initiative is powered by the Civic Commons through a large network of 122 public, private, philanthropic, and nonprofit institutional partners. Together, they focus on growing the pool of homes for purchase; supporting Black households who want to buy a home and obtain a mortgage; and improving collaboration to create a more efficient and effective ecosystem for Black homeownership.rnrnHow can we work together to grow wealth and build vibrant communities through homeownership? Join us at the City Club as Alesha Washington from The Seattle Foundation leads a conversation with Michael Brown from the Civic Commons on what we can learn from the Black Home Initiative.

Opening SummaryChinook fishing seasons in Puget Sound keep shrinking while hatchery production has actually increased over time. This episode pulls back the curtain on fisheries management with a panel of experts representing over 120 years of combined experience. You'll discover where Washington's hatchery Chinook are really going, why international treaties matter more than local regulations, and what the Endangered Species Act actually means for your fishing days. If you've ever been frustrated by three-day seasons in your home marine area while Canadian anglers limit out just across the boarder, this conversation will finally make sense of it all.Episode OverviewWhy Chinook hatchery production has increased while our seasons continue to shrink How treaties with Alaska and Canada impact your Puget Sound seasonsThe real reason Marine Area 7 gets 3-5 days while other waters stay open year-roundWhat "mass marking" means and how it changed modern salmon managementWhy your license dollars fund fish that get caught in Canadian watersThe complex relationship between tribal rights, recreational fishing, and endangered speciesTimestamps00:00 - Introduction: The contradiction of doubled production and reduced seasons 01:30 - Steve Stout on fishing tide point and the reality of 6-day seasons 03:00 - Pat Pattillo explains the history: from 1950s Neah Bay to today's restrictions 06:15 - The evolution of hatchery management and mass marking programs 09:45 - International treaty impacts: Why Canadians are catching Washington's fish 12:30 - Tom Chance on endangered species, tribal coordination, and complexity 16:00 - Mike Haggerty on hydrology, flood control, and productive Chinook populations 18:45 - The democracy of fisheries: North of Falcon and public participation 20:30 - Legacy fishing and teaching the next generation 22:00 - Why you should attend the Seattle Boat Show panel discussionResources & LinksSeattle Boat Show Panel: "The Science of Salmon" - Sunday February 1st at 3:00 PMFeaturing: Tom Chance (Lummi Natural Resources) Steve Stout (Hatchery Management)Mike Haggerty (Fisheries Hydrologist)Pat Pattillo (Retired WDFW)Seattle Boat Show Tickets: https://www.seattleboatshow.comWDFW Regulations: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulationsNorth of Falcon Process: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/management/north-falconAnglers Unlimited Gold Waitlist: Want access to more conversations like these? Join the waitlist: https://anglersunlimited.co/goldSee you Sunday Feb 1st!Join us live at the Seattle Boat Show on Sunday, February 1st at 3:00 PM for "The Science of Salmon" panel discussion. Get your questions answered in person and discover what really happens behind the scenes of fisheries management. About the PodcastFishing for a Reason is the Pacific Northwest saltwater fishing education podcast for new anglers and families who want to catch more salmon, halibut, lingcod, shrimp and crab in Washington waters. Hosted by Jamie & Scott Propst from Anglers Unlimited, each episode delivers practical techniques, local knowledge, and expert insights to help you get off the couch and into the fish. Perfect for relocated professionals, military families, and boaters who are just getting into fishing.

Imagination, storytelling, and the human voice are at the heart of this conversation I shared with voice actor and coach Linda Bearman. We talked about her journey from early acting to decades in voiceover, why audio drama is finding new life, and what it really takes to build a career in a changing industry shaped by home studios and AI. Linda offered honest insight into training, discipline, and the business side of voice work, along with a clear reminder that technology cannot replace lived experience, emotional truth, or imagination. More than anything, this episode is about staying human, staying kind, and following the passion that brings stories to life, no matter how fast the world changes. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear why sounding natural and emotionally present matters more than performance tricks in voice acting. 02:52 – Learn why audio drama is resurging and what today's audiences are craving from storytelling again. 10:48 – Understand how voiceover evolved into a true craft and why it demands respect, discipline, and training. 20:17 – Get a clear look at how AI has already changed the voiceover industry and where human voices still hold the edge. 30:18 – Discover why imagination is a muscle that must be trained to bring stories to life through audio alone. 55:22 – Learn why preserving classic radio techniques is essential to developing the next generation of voice actors. About the Guest: Linda Bearman has amassed decades of experience in the performing arts beginning as a child actress and continuing into adulthood. Her career was enriched by studies and performances in the US and abroad working with legendary actors from prestigious theatre's including; The Arena Stage (Washington D.C.), The Actors Studio (NYC), The National Theatre of Great Britain and The Old Vic (UK). After obtaining her degree in Acting, Linda continued performing on stage and screen until moving to Los Angeles where she transitioned into TV production working for King World Productions on shows; The Oprah Winfrey Show, Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune. Later, while working for Landmark Productions she was offered a position at the esteemed commercial talent agency, SBV,Inc (Sutton, Barth & Vennari). Becoming a VO agent was a pivotal point in Linda's career as it was there that Linda discovered her passion for voiceover, an art form that perfectly aligned with her acting background and business acumen.  Following seven years at SBV, she relocated to Utah and worked in the casting department of Leucadia Film Corp. while also voicing regional radio and TV commercials. Recognizing the need for a professional full service talent agency in Salt Lake City, she established, co-owned and operated the successful TMG,Inc. (Talent Management Group) in its first decade of business. Her enthusiasm for developing talent led her to become a full-time VO coach, mentoring actors in performance techniques, branding, marketing, and demo production of which several earned industry recognitions. She stays up to date with the latest industry developments and actively shares it with her clients. Linda is honored to serve as a judge for the annual international SOVAS Arts Awards (Society of Voice Arts and Sciences) and delights in performing live recreations of radio shows from the "Golden Age" with REPS (Radio Enthusiasts of Puget Sound) in Seattle, WA each year.  Ways to connect with Linda**:** LinkedIn-Linda Bearman About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Today, Thursday, January 22 on Urban Forum Northwest:*Omer Qureshi, Co Founder & CEO, Americans 4 Equality/MLK Gandhi Empowerment Initiative will be joined by Erica Hoard and Bryan Haynes who both have excelled in the technology training program and are currently playing a significant role in the Intern Program.*Jaebadiah Gardner, Owner, Gardner Global, Inc a development company who has purchased the Mount Calvary Christian Center property on 23rd Avenue just north of East Union Street where he will build two eight story apartments on both sides of 23rd Avenue. He provides an update on the progress of his development.*Dominique Remy, Executive Director, 1 Drop is Pierce County development firm that specializes in single family and multi family rehabilitation in Pierce County and south King County. He was recognized by the Business Journals 40 under 40 young executives shaping the Puget Sound region's economy in 2025.*Tyna Dowers is niece of the late Madge Thompson who was the great-granddaughter of the first African American US Senator Hiram Revels who represented the state of Mississippi in 1870 for one year during Reconstruction. Madge chaired the Seattle MLK Celebration Committees Food Committee for over twenty years and was honored last Monday during the Seattle MLK Organizing Coalition's Celebration at Garfield High School.Reverend Dr. Paul Stoot, Sr., Senior Pastor, Greater Trinity Church and Founder of Rise Up Academy, the school admits students as young as two years of age. The late SeaHawk Kenny Easley was major player in the start of the school. Easley's Celebration of Life was held last week in Virginia, Pastor Stoot attended the service and comments.Urban Forum Northwest streams live at www.1150kknw.com. Visit us at www.urbanforumnw.com for archived programs and relevant information. Like us on Facebook. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

If you've relocated to Washington or you're just getting started saltwater fishing in the Puget Sound or San Juan Islands, breaking into the local fishing community can feel impossible. You're watching everyone else post their big catches while you're coming home skunked, spending hundreds on trips that go nowhere. Here's the truth: the anglers crushing it aren't better than you—they just have better information about what is actually happening under the water's surface. In this episode, Jamie breaks down exactly how to find your fishing crew and accelerate your success on Washington waters.Episode OverviewWhy fishing with a community matters more than you think - learn how local knowledge and fishing buddies help you avoid costly mistakes and catch more fish fasterThe 3 proven ways to break into the Pacific Northwest fishing scene - specific events, volunteer opportunities, and communities that actually welcome new anglersSeattle Boat Show 2025 breakdown - which seminars to attend, including the "Science of Salmon" expert panel on February 1stInside Puget Sound Anglers - how to find your local chapter and what to expect from monthly meetings with decades of local expertiseStructured learning communities - when to invest in step-by-step training that gets you on fish faster (Anglers Unlimited Gold opens February 2026)Timestamps:00:00 – The Friday night scroll: why you're stuck on the outside looking in02:45 – The real cost of fishing blind (it's not just money)05:30 – Strategy #1: Show up to focused events like the Seattle Boat Show08:15 – Strategy #2: Volunteer at local fishing events (Salmon for Soldiers, local derbies)12:40 – Seattle Boat Show 2025 seminar lineup and what to attend18:20 – Strategy #3: Join Puget Sound Anglers (13 chapters across Washington)22:10 – Structured learning communities: Anglers Unlimited Gold membership overview26:45 – Success story: first-time San Juan Islands king salmon after one training session28:30 – Why fishing is just better with peopleKey TakeawaysThe guys crushing it aren't better anglers—they just have better intel. Show up to events where fishing people gather. Be honest about being new. Puget Sound Anglers chapters are everywhere and free to visit. Derby fishing is about networking at first, not winning. Piecing together knowledge vs. structured learning. Fishing is better with people—for learning and for bad days. Resources & LinksSeattle Boat Show 2026: https://seattleboatshow.com/Puget Sound Anglers: https://pugetsoundanglers.org/home/Local Fishing Events:Salmon for Soldiers: https://salmonforsoldiers.org/Everett Coho Derby: https://everettcohoderby.com/Edmonds Coho Derby: https://www.edmondscohoderby.com/Anacortes Resurrection Derby: https://www.resurrectionderby.com/Anacortes Halibut Derby: https://www.psafidalgo.org/anacortes-halibut-derby/Anglers Unlimited: Join the Waitlist: https://anglersunlimited.co/goldWashington Department of Fish & Wildlife: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulationsWant the full structured learning experience? Join the waitlist for Anglers Unlimited Gold membership (opening February 2026) at

On this episode of the Great Lakes Fishing Podcast, host Chris Larsen sits down with Tyson Colby, founder and engineer behind AccuTroll, to dive deep into one of the most talked-about innovations in trolling speed control. Tyson shares his engineering background and explains how AccuTroll was built using modern IoT technology to solve a problem every troller faces—maintaining precise, consistent speed in changing conditions. From closed-loop “cruise control” trolling that automatically adjusts throttle based on speed feedback, to ultra-compact under-cowling installation, AccuTroll brings a fresh, modern approach to kicker motor control. The conversation covers how AccuTroll integrates with NMEA 2000 networks, paddle wheel sensors, and GPS speed, why it excels in current-driven waters like the Great Lakes and Puget Sound, and how anglers can retrofit it to existing throttle systems with minimal effort. Tyson also explains the smartphone-based control system, Bluetooth remote with programmable macros, and how over-the-air updates allow the platform to grow with new features and integrations. Whether you're a charter captain or a weekend troller looking to simplify your spread and focus more on fishing, this episode breaks down why automated speed control is one of those tools you “didn't know you needed until you used it.”

Professor Nick Brody teaches Communications at the University of Puget Sound. His research focuses on digital communication, cyber bullying, and the social implications of technology.  He joined us to talk about the concept of Morally...

This week, we chat with Nicolas Cary! Nic is the Co-Founder and Vice Chairman at Blockchain.com! He is responsible for bringing new adopters into the crypto ecosystem. A fascination with tech, money and politics led Nic to become deeply passionate about helping people reinvent their relationship with money.After an international upbringing, Nic worked as a teacher in India before becoming a founding team member at SaaS company PipelineCRM.com, where he focused on product development and management.A trilingual communicator, Nic is the Founding Commissioner of the Blockchain Commission for Sustainable Development and co-author of The Future is Decentralised. Deeply passionate about entrepreneurship, Nic is also co-founder and chairman of SkysTheLimit.org, the leading non-profit digital business accelerator. Regularly cited in the global press as one of the earliest crypto industry experts, Nic was named the European Digital Leader of the year in 2015 and honored with a Professional Achievement Award in 2017 by his alma mater, the University of Puget Sound.A proven leader, investor, public speaker, and brand ambassador, Nic focuses on designing performant cultures that persevere in adverse markets.✨ This episode is presented by Brex.Brex: brex.com/trailblazerspodThis episode is supported by RocketReach, Gusto, OpenPhone & Athena.RocketReach: rocketreach.co/trailblazersGusto: gusto.com/trailblazersQuo: Quo.com/trailblazersAthena: athenago.me/Erica-WengerFollow Us!Nicolas Cary: @niccarySky's The Limit: https://www.skysthelimit.org/@thetrailblazerspod: Instagram, YouTube, TikTokErica Wenger: @erica_wenger

Welcome to our first post-holiday post since mid-December. Here is our first-ever, back-to-back twin episode post featuring The Artists Index podcast host Scott Bishop's conversations with Maggi Kerr Peirce, the author of A Belfast Girl. HERE IS PART TWO: According to the Parkhurst Brothers Publishing website, she "...sang her native Irish ballads from the Newport Folk Festival to Puget Sound during the 1970s. She performed on many of the same stages as Pete Seeger, the Kingston Trio, and Peter, Paul, and Mary." She graced storytelling festivals from coast-to-coast with her Irish stories. The revered storyteller, a founder of the Tryworks Coffeehouse, a legendary and long-running (1967-2002) folk music and arts venue in New Bedford, Massachusetts, held at the First Unitarian Church. It was a vibrant community hub for the musicians, poets, and young people of the South Coast. Maggi has been featured at the National Storytelling Festival and received the National Storytelling Network (USA) Oracle Award for lifetime achievement. Scott Bishop spoke with her at her home in Fairhaven, Massachusetts. Maggi Peirce was 93 at the time of her passing in December 2024. She shared just some of her many memories, as well as her love of the Tryworks Coffeehouse, the South Coast, and so much more.   Maggi Kerr Peirce Fairhaven Massachusetts 02719   Email | Website | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube   PODCASTS ALSO AVAILABLE ON: YouTube WHILE YOU'RE HERE: Please consider donating whatever you can to ensure that our mission continues as we document the legacies of South Coast Artists. If you would like to be a guest on The Artists Index or have a suggestion, please let us know!  

Welcome to our first post-holiday post since mid-December. Here is our first-ever, back-to-back twin episode post featuring The Artists Index podcast host Scott Bishop's conversations with Maggi Kerr Peirce, the author of A Belfast Girl. HERE IS PART ONE: According to the Parkhurst Brothers Publishing website, she "...sang her native Irish ballads from the Newport Folk Festival to Puget Sound during the 1970s. She performed on many of the same stages as Pete Seeger, the Kingston Trio, and Peter, Paul, and Mary." She graced storytelling festivals from coast-to-coast with her Irish stories. The revered storyteller, a founder of the Tryworks Coffeehouse, a legendary and long-running (1967-2002) folk music and arts venue in New Bedford, Massachusetts, held at the First Unitarian Church. It was a vibrant community hub for the musicians, poets, and young people of the South Coast. Maggi has been featured at the National Storytelling Festival and received the National Storytelling Network (USA) Oracle Award for lifetime achievement. Scott Bishop spoke with her at her home in Fairhaven, Massachusetts. Maggi Peirce was 93 at the time of her passing in December 2024. She shared just some of her many memories, as well as her love of the Tryworks Coffeehouse, the South Coast, and so much more.   Maggi Kerr Peirce Fairhaven Massachusetts 02719   Email | Website | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube   PODCASTS ALSO AVAILABLE ON: YouTube WHILE YOU'RE HERE: Please consider donating whatever you can to ensure that our mission continues as we document the legacies of South Coast Artists. If you would like to be a guest on The Artists Index or have a suggestion, please let us know!  

Hello to you listening in Keenesburg, Colorado!Coming to you from Whidbey Island, Washington this is Stories From Women Who Walk with 60 Seconds for Motivate Your Monday and your host, Diane Wyzga.  If you followed my New Year's Day Polar Bear Dive story published in Episode 774 and Episode 776 it might have sounded all too easy: show up, scream, run, dive in, go home.I'm here to tell you that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool introverted kinda gal. I do not do well in settings where I have to show up alone, don't know anybody, have to make small talk, and may end up looking the fool.  The Polar Bear Dive was a real challenge for me. Not the part where I dove into the 43 Fahrenheit degree water of Puget Sound but showing up. I could have stayed in bed, stayed at home, walked onto the beach and turned back, stayed on the beach but hung out in the background watching the others. You know what I'm talking about. And, no one would have known. I could have lied about what I did or didn't do.But that's not how I live anymore. Practical Tip:  Here's what I've learned: the courage isn't about getting to the Finish Line; the courage is agreeing that you will start. And once you start it's all Finish Line from there on out! Guaranteed!You're invited: “Come for the stories - stay for the magic!” Speaking of magic, I hope you'll subscribe, follow, share a 5-star rating and nice review on your social media or podcast channel of choice, and join us next time! Remember to stop by the website, check out the Services, arrange a Discovery Call, and Opt In to stay current with Diane and Quarter Moon Story Arts.  Stories From Women Who Walk Production TeamPodcaster: Diane F Wyzga & Quarter Moon Story ArtsMusic: Mer's Waltz from Crossing the Waters by Steve Schuch & Night Heron MusicAll content and image © 2019 to Present: for credit & attribution Quarter Moon Story Arts

This Biotech CEO Wants To Cure Lung Cancer – Maria Zanes President & CEO bioAffinity Technologies BIAF Ticker: BIAF Websitehttps://bioaffinitytech.com/Maria Zannes, Chief Executive Officer, President, and Director, bioAffinity Technologies, Inc. (NASDAQ: BIAF)BioSince founding bioAffinity Technologies in 2014, Ms. Zannes has built a team of award-winning scientists and executives who are advancing breakthrough diagnostics for lung cancer and other pulmonary diseases. The company's first commercial product, CyPath® Lung, is a noninvasive, accurate test for early-stage lung cancer that has proven to detect the disease as early as Stage 1A when it can be cured. Prior to bioAffinity Technologies, Ms. Zannes founded The Zannes Firm to provide strategic solutions for private industry in the medical, environmental and energy fields. Previously, she was President of the Energy Recovery Council, a national trade group and General Manager of ECOS Corporation, a subsidiary of Burlington Environmental. Earlier in her career, she was a legislative aide to Congressman Charles Wilson (D-TX) after having worked as a journalist for Voice of America and the Associated Press. She has been awarded Lifetime Achievement Awards by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers and the Earth Engineering Center Award from Columbia University. Ms. Zannes received her J.D. from the University of Puget Sound in Washington State and is licensed to practice law in New Mexico. bioAffinity Technologies, Inc. (Nasdaq: BIAF)Lung cancer remains the leading cause of cancer deaths worldwide with an estimated 1.8 million deaths annually. Diagnosing and treating early-stage lung cancer can significantly improve outcomes and increase patient survival. bioAffinity Technologies addresses the urgent need for noninvasive, accurate early-stage lung cancer diagnosis. The Company's lead product, CyPath® Lung, accurately detects early-stage lung cancer in high-risk patients as early as Stage 1A. Using CyPath® Lung as part of the diagnostic pathway can lead to earlier diagnosis, fewer unnecessary invasive procedures, reduced patient anxiety, and lower medical costs for the world's largest cancer killer. CyPath® Lung is sold as a Laboratory Developed Test (LDT) by Precision Pathology Laboratory Services, a bioAffinity Technologies company, and reimbursed by Medicare, private payors and federal healthcare systems, including the VA. CyPath® Lung uses proprietary advanced flow cytometry and artificial intelligence (AI) to detect cancer by analyzing the lung microenvironment. CyPath® Lung incorporates a fluorescent porphyrin that is preferentially taken up by cancer and cancer-related cells. The test demonstrated 92% sensitivity, 87% specificity, and 88% accuracy in individuals with small indeterminate pulmonary nodules that often pose diagnostic challenges. The test provides actionable information for physicians to guide next steps in patient care. Physicians using CyPath® Lung for their high-risk patients have reported multiple case studies in which CyPath® Lung detected lung cancer at Stage 1A when standard imaging, risk calculator models and serum marker tests indicated the nodules were likely benign. Conversely, a negative CyPath® Lung result has spared many patients from unnecessary and sometimes risky invasive procedures, including biopsy.

If you're tired of burning fuel, chasing other boats, and coming home with an empty cooler, this episode is for you.Jamie breaks down why most anglers struggle to catch salmon consistently—and why it has nothing to do with luck, secret spots, or the newest gear. Instead, successful anglers follow a repeatable system that adapts to conditions, tides, and fish behavior.You'll learn the foundation of the 4 P's Method and how treating fishing like a well-oiled machine can completely change your results on the water. This episode is especially valuable for Puget Sound, Salish Sea, and San Juan Islands anglers who want more confidence, fewer frustrating days, and more fish in the box.What Listeners Will LearnWhy salmon fishing success has nothing to do with luck or “magic” gearThe 4 P's Method and how elite anglers use it to catch fish consistentlyCommon mistakes that sabotage most fishing tripsWhy strategy matters more than time spent fishingHow reading tides, currents, and electronics increases your hookup rateHow to stop guessing and start fishing with confidenceResources MentionedFREE Exclusive Training: The Only 3 Salmon Lures You Need — And Exactly How We Rig Them

Jake Cross is General Manager and a fourth-generation leader at Seldens, a family-owned home furnishings and design business serving the Pacific Northwest for 85 years. Born into a legacy of craftsmanship and customer service, Jake's journey with Seldens began long before he officially joined the business. Growing up immersed in the values of integrity, quality, and community stewardship, he now helps steer the company toward an exciting and innovative future. As part of the leadership team, Jake has been instrumental in Seldens' expansion, bridging the gap between honoring the company's deep heritage and pursuing forward-thinking strategies that meet modern customer needs.Seldens has been the Puget Sound region's home furnishings destination since 1940. Offering over 150 quality designer brands and expert design services, Seldens is dedicated to providing an exceptional client experience. With a commitment to quality, craftsmanship and community, and showrooms in Tacoma, Olympia and Bellevue, Seldens continues to be a trusted name in home furnishings.The Seldens family of furniture brands also includes Bassett® Furniture and Summer House Patio outdoor furniture showrooms, each with locations in both Bellevue and Tacoma.Jake's Links:Website: https://seldens.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Seldens/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seldensdesignLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacobcross1/Freebie: https://seldens.com/pages/seldens-catalogThe Impatient Entrepreneur's links:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheImpatientEntrepreneurPod⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/theimpatiententrepreneurpod/⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theimpatiententrepreneurpod/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheImpatientEntrepreneurPod⁠Online: https://www.theimpatiententrepreneurpod.comConnect with us⁠⁠: https://www.theimpatiententrepreneurpod.com/contact⁠Kwedar & Co.'s links:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kwedarco⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kwedarco⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kwedarco⁠YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KwedarCo⁠Online: www.kwedarco.comConnect with us: https://www.kwedarco.com/book-consultation

Fisher Blades co-founder Chas Fisher was born in the swamp and raised in the mountains. He is a long-time hunter, climber and outdoorsman. Chas Fisher trained for over 25 years in Wing Chun kung-fu, and currently teaches Wing Chun in Seattle and Missoula, Montana. He also is part of the InSights Training Center instruction staff, coaching pistol, rifle, unarmed and blade defensive courses in the Puget Sound area. To learn more about Fisher Blades visit FisherBlades.com and follow @FisherBlades on Instagram.   RELATED PODCASTS:   Can You Survive? | Higher Line Podcast #261 Win the Fight-Chronicles of Regiment Blades // Higher Line Podcast #221 Make the Time to Live | Higher Line Podcast #184   ---   Music Attributions: Intro - "3rd Eye Blimp" by Otis McDonald Outro - "I Want More" by Silent Partner   The Carry Trainer Higher Line Podcast is available on iTunes, Google Play, YouTube, Stitcher and most importantly CarryTrainer.com.

Tom and Joey are joined by Pat Patillo of the Puget Sound Recreational Fishing Advisory Board to discuss the 2026 Salmon outlook and the upcoming Seattle Boat Show, they check in on some local Steelhead opportunities with Todd Daniels of Tall Tails Guide Service, they bring you the latest on the Governor’s  probe into WDFW in the Northwest Outdoor Report, and they wrap up the show by telling you some of the biggest local fishing and hunting opportunities. 

It’s New Year’s Eve. At midnight, many of us will be raising glasses, kissing loved ones, and trying to remember the words to “Auld Lang Syne.” That song, if you don’t recall, begins with a question: “Should old acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind?” We here at Soundside say, NO! We will remember. This year, we brought on a couple new producers, and they have been fantastic additions to our team! I am super excited to see how they help us grow. But we will never forget those who helped us get here. So, today, we’re playing back some of the great work by former Soundside producers. RELATED LINKS: 'Thousands of stiches, all by hand': a look at Puget Sound's artisan sailmakers Remembering Soul Radio-o-o-o-o-o-o 1250 KYAC - Seattle How the Olympic marmot became Washington's fuzziest state symbol Thank you to the supporters of KUOW, you help make this show possible! If you want to help out, go to kuow.org/donate/soundsidenotes Soundside is a production of KUOW in Seattle, a proud member of the NPR Network.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you're unsure what fishing rod you should be fishing for salmon — or you've bought gear in the past that never felt right on the water — this episode will clear the confusion fast.On this week's Fishing for a Reason, we sit down with founder of ProLite Rods Chris Wegeleben, who has spent nearly a decade building technique-specific fishing rods for salmon, halibut, and nationwide fisheries. Chris explains how choosing the right blank, power, and action directly affects your hookup rate, your fight control, and how many fish make it to the net.Instead of chasing brands or stiffness, you'll learn how to choose gear based on how you actually fish — whether that's trolling for kings in Puget Sound, or jigging heavy pipe for halibut in Alaska. If you want to stop guessing, start buying with confidence, and get more fish to the boat, this is the episode to listen to.What You'll Learn:How rod design actually affects landing ratesThe real role of rod blanks and materialsWhen to choose graphite, fiberglass, or composite tipsWhy longer rods help cushion king head-shakes near the boatHow to match power/action to your technique (downrigger, mooching, 360, jigging)The difference between durability-built guide rods and sensitivity-built rec rodsHow beginners should shop their first salmon rod without overspendingHalibut rod setup—lengths, fast tips, and why spiral wraps reduce torqueResources MentionedJOIN OUR INNER CIRCLE: Anglers Unlimited Gold MembershipProlite Rod Technology (Custom Builds, Take-Down Rods, Salmon & Halibut Gear)

David Troutt: Nisqually Natural Resources Director on the amazing MILLION chums returning to Puget Sound and chinook recovery update // American Sportsfishing Association's Larry C Phillips Pinniped predation and a Federal solution to a Federally-caused problem: The Marine Mammal Protection Act vs The Endangered Species Act // Austin Moser of austinsnorthwestadventures.com Rufus Wood Triploid time!

In this episode, Jamie dives deep into the science, migration, and behavior of Pacific Market Squid—Washington's most accessible winter fishery.Whether you're jigging from Edmonds Pier at night or hunting massive schools from a boat with sonar, understanding migration, spawning windows, and habitat will directly increase your success rate.If you love accessible fisheries, fast action, winter nights, and a freezer full of calamari—this is your jam.What Listeners Will LearnWhy Pacific Market Squid return to Puget Sound by the millions in winterHow their short life cycle & single-spawn death creates boom-or-bust fisheriesHow females spawnTypical commercial harvest volumeThe seasonal migration route Why night lights draw schools into casting rangeWashington retention rules (up to 10 pounds, water drained)Why El Niño collapses production and La Niña supercharges abundanceWhere to go next for tactics.Resources MentionedEpisode 35 – Squid Fishing in Puget Sound: Gear, Jigs & Secrets to Get You StartedAnglers Unlimited Gold Membership & SeminarsWashington Squid Limits & Regulations – WDFW site

What happens when curiosity, resilience, and storytelling collide over a lifetime of building something meaningful? In this episode, I welcome Nick Francis, founder and CEO of Casual Films, for a thoughtful conversation about leadership, presence, and what it takes to keep going when the work gets heavy. Nick's journey began with a stint at BBC News and a bold 9,000-mile rally from London to Mongolia in a Mini Cooper, a spirit of adventure that still fuels how he approaches business and life today. We talk about how that early experience shaped Casual into a global branded storytelling company with studios across five continents, and what it really means to lead a creative organization at scale. Nick shares insights from growing the company internationally, expanding into Southeast Asia, and staying grounded while producing hundreds of projects each year. Along the way, we explore why emotionally resonant storytelling matters, how trust and preparation beat panic, and why presence with family, health, and purpose keeps leaders steady in uncertain times. This conversation is about building an Unstoppable life by focusing on what matters most, using creativity to connect people, and choosing clarity and resilience in a world full of noise. Highlights: 00:01:30 – Learn how early challenges shape resilience and long-term drive. 00:06:20 – Discover why focusing on your role creates calm under pressure. 00:10:50 – Learn how to protect attention in a nonstop world. 00:18:25 – Understand what global growth teaches about leadership. 00:26:00 – Learn why leading with trust changes relationships. 00:45:55 – Discover how movement and presence restore clarity. About the Guest: Nick Francis is the founder and CEO of Casual, a global production group that blends human storytelling, business know-how, and creativity turbo-charged by AI. Named the UK's number one brand video production company for five years, Casual delivers nearly 1,000 projects annually for world-class brands like Adobe, Amazon, BMW, Hilton, HSBC, and P&G. The adventurous spirit behind its first production – a 9,000-mile journey from London to Mongolia in an old Mini – continues to drive Casual's growth across offices in London, New York, LA, San Francisco, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Sydney, Singapore, Hong Kong and Greater China. Nick previously worked for BBC News and is widely recognised for his expertise in video storytelling, brand building, and corporate communications. He is the founding director of the Casual Films Academy, a charity helping young filmmakers develop skills by producing films for charitable organisations. He is also the author of ‘The New Fire: Harness the Power of Video for Your Business' and a passionate advocate for emotionally resonant, behaviorally grounded storytelling. Nick lives in San Francisco, California, with his family. Ways to connect with Nick**:** Website: https://www.casualfilms.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@casual_global  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casualglobal/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CasualFilms/  Nick's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickfrancisfilm/  Casual's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/casual-films-international/  Beyond Casual - LinkedIn Newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=6924458968031395840 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hello everyone. I am your host, Mike hingson, that's kind of funny. We'll talk about that in a second, but this is unstoppable mindset. And our guest today is Nick Francis, and what we're going to talk about is the fact that people used to always ask me, well, they would call me Mr. Kingston, and it took me, as I just told Nick a master's degree in physics in 10 years to realize that if I said Mike hingson, that's why they said Mr. Kingston. So was either say Mike hingson or Michael hingson. Well, Michael hingson is a lot easier to say than Mike hingson, but I don't really care Mike or Michael, as long as it's not late for dinner. Whatever works. Yeah. Well, Nick, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're Nick Francis  02:04 here. Thanks, Mike. It's great to be here. Michael Hingson  02:08 So Nick is a marketing kind of guy. He's got a company called casual that we'll hear about. Originally from England, I believe, and now lives in San Francisco. We were talking about the weather in San Francisco, as opposed to down here in Victorville. A little bit earlier. We're going to have a heat wave today and and he doesn't have that up there, but you know, well, things, things change over time. But anyway, we're glad you're here. And thanks, Mike. Really looking forward to it. Tell us about the early Nick growing up and all that sort of stuff, just to get us started. Nick Francis  02:43 That's a good question. I grew up in London, in in Richmond, which is southwest London. It's a at the time, it wasn't anything like as kind of, it's become quite kind of shishi, I think back in the day, because it's on the west of London. The pollution from the city used to flow east and so, like all the kind of well to do people, in fact, there used to be a, there used to be a palace in Richmond. It's where Queen Elizabeth died, the first Queen Elizabeth, that is. And, yeah, you know, I grew up it was, you know, there's a lot of rugby played around there. I played rugby for my local rugby club from a very young age, and we went sailing on the south coast. It was, it was great, really. And then, you know, unfortunately, when I was 10 years old, my my dad died. He had had a very powerful job at the BBC, and then he ran the British Council, which is the overseas wing of the Arts Council, so promoting, I guess, British soft power around the world, going and opening art galleries and going to ballet in Moscow and all sorts. So he had an incredible life and worked incredibly hard. And you know, that has brought me all sorts of privileges, I think, when I was a kid. But, you know, unfortunately, age 10 that all ended. And you know, losing a parent at that age is such a sort of fundamental, kind of shaking of your foundations. You know, you when you're a kid, you feel like a, you're going to live forever, and B, the things that are happening around you are going to last forever. And so, you know, you know, my mom was amazing, of course, and, you know, and in time, I got a new stepdad, and all the rest of it. But you know, that kind of shaped a lot of my a lot of my youth, really. And, yeah, I mean, Grief is a funny thing, and it's funny the way it manifests itself as you grow. But yeah. So I grew up there. I went to school in the Midlands, near where my stepdad lived, and then University of Newcastle, which is up in the north of England, where it rains a lot. It's where it's where Newcastle Football Club is based. And you know is that is absolutely at the center of the city. So. So the city really comes alive there. And it was during that time that I discovered photography, and I wanted to be a war photographer, because I believe that was where life was lived at the kind of the real cutting edge. You know, you see the you see humanity in its in its most visceral and vivid color in terrible situations. And I kind of that seemed like an interesting thing to go to go and do. Michael Hingson  05:27 Well, what? So what did you major in in college in Newcastle? So I did Nick Francis  05:31 history and politics, and then I went did a course in television journalism, and ended up working at BBC News as a initially running on the floor. So I used to deliver the papers that you know, when you see people shuffling or not, they do it anymore, actually, because everything, everything's digital now digital, yeah, but when they were worried about the the auto cues going down, they we always had to make sure that they had the up to date script. And so I would be printing in, obviously, the, you know, because it's a three hour news show, the scripts constantly evolving, and so, you know, I was making sure they had the most up to date version in their hands. And it's, I don't know if you have spent any time around live TV Mike, but it's an incredibly humbling experience, like the power of it. You know, there's sort of two or 3 million people watching these two people who are sitting five feet in front of me, and the, you know, the sort of slightly kind of, there was an element of me that just wanted to jump in front of them and kind of go, ah. And, you know, never, ever work in live TV, ever again. But you know, anyway, I did that and ended up working as a producer, writing and developing, developing packets that would go out on the show, producing interviews and things. And, you know, I absolutely loved it. It was, it was a great time. But then I left to go and set up my company. Michael Hingson  06:56 I am amazed, even today, with with watching people on the news, and I've and I've been in a number of studios during live broadcasts and so on. But I'm amazed at how well, mostly, at least, I've been fortunate. Mostly, the people are able to read because they do have to read everything. It isn't like you're doing a lot of bad living in a studio. Obviously, if you are out with a story, out in the field, if you will, there, there may be more where you don't have a printed script to go by, but I'm amazed at the people in the studio, how much they are able to do by by reading it all completely. Nick Francis  07:37 It's, I mean, the whole experience is kind of, it's awe inspiring, really. And you know, when you first go into a Live, a live broadcast studio, and you see the complexity, and you know, they've got feeds coming in from all over the world, and you know, there's upwards of 100 people all working together to make it happen. And I remember talking to one of the directors at the time, and I was like, How on earth does this work? And he said, You know, it's simple. You everyone has a very specific job, and you know that as long as you do your bit of the job when it comes in front of you, then the show will go out. He said, where it falls over is when people start worrying about whether other people are going to are going to deliver on time or, you know, and so if you start worrying about what other people are doing, rather than just focusing on the thing you have to do, that's where it potentially falls over, Michael Hingson  08:29 which is a great object lesson anyway, to worry about and control and don't worry about the rest Nick Francis  08:36 for sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, it's almost a lesson for life. I mean, sorry, it is a lesson for life, and Michael Hingson  08:43 it's something that I talk a lot about in dealing with the World Trade Center and so on, and because it was a message I received, but I've been really preaching that for a long time. Don't worry about what you can't control, because all you're going to do is create fear and drive yourself Nick Francis  08:58 crazy, completely, completely. You know. You know what is it? Give me the, give me this. Give me the strength to change the things I can. Give me the give me the ability to let the things that I can't change slide but and the wisdom to know the difference. I'm absolutely mangling that, that saying, but, yeah, it's, it's true, you know. And I think, you know, it's so easy for us to in this kind of modern world where everything's so media, and we're constantly served up things that, you know, shock us, sadness, enrage us, you know, just to be able to step back and say, actually, you know what? These are things I can't really change. I'd have to just let them wash over me. Yeah, and just focus on the things that you really can change. Michael Hingson  09:46 It's okay to be aware of things, but you've got to separate the things you can control from the things that you can and we, unfortunately aren't taught that. Our parents don't teach us that because they were never taught it, and it's something. That, just as you say, slides by, and it's so unfortunate, because it helps to create such a level of fear about so many things in our in our psyche and in our world that we really shouldn't have to do Nick Francis  10:13 completely well. I think, you know, obviously, but you know, we've, we've spent hundreds, if not millions of years evolving to become humans, and then, you know, actually being aware of things beyond our own village has only been an evolution of the last, you know what, five, 600 years, yeah. And so we are just absolutely, fundamentally not able to cope with a world of such incredible stimulus that we live in now. Michael Hingson  10:43 Yeah, and it's only getting worse with all the social media, with all the different things that are happening and of course, and we're only working to develop more and more things to inundate us with more and more kinds of inputs. It's really unfortunate we just don't learn to separate ourselves very easily from all of that. Nick Francis  11:04 Yeah, well, you know, it's so interesting when you look at the development of VR headsets, and, you know, are we going to have, like, lenses in our eyes that kind of enable us to see computer screens while we're just walking down the road, you know? And you look at that and you think, well, actually, just a cell phone. I mean, cell phones are going to be gone fairly soon. I would imagine, you know, as a format, it's not something that's going to abide but the idea that we're going to create technology that's going to be more, that's going to take us away from being in the moment more rather than less, is kind of terrifying. Because, I would say already, even with, you know, the most basic technology that we have now, which is, you know, mind bending, compared to where we were even 20 years ago, you know, to think that we're only going to become more immersive is, you know, we really, really as a species, have to work out how we are going to be far better at stepping away from this stuff. And I, you know, I do, I wonder, with AI and technology whether there is, you know, there's a real backlash coming of people who do want to just unplug, yeah, Michael Hingson  12:13 well, it'll be interesting to see, and I hope that people will learn to do it. I know when I started hearing about AI, and one of the first things I heard was how kids would use it to write their papers, and it was a horrible thing, and they were trying to figure out ways so that teachers could tell us something was written by AI, as opposed to a student. And I almost immediately developed this opinion, no, let AI write the papers for students, but when the students turn in their paper, then take a day to in your class where you have every student come up and defend their paper, see who really knows it, you know. And what a great teaching opportunity and teaching moment to to get students also to learn to do public speaking and other things a little bit more than they do, but we haven't. That hasn't caught on, but I continue to preach it. Nick Francis  13:08 I think that's really smart, you know, as like aI exists, and I think to to pretend somehow that, you know, we can work without it is, you know, it's, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, it's like, well, saying, you know, we're just going to go back to Word processors or typewriters, which, you know, in which it weirdly, in their own time, people looked at and said, this is, you know, these, these are going to completely rot our minds. In fact, yeah, I think Plato said that was very against writing, because he believed it would mean no one could remember anything after that, you know. So it's, you know, it's just, it's an endless, endless evolution. But I think, you know, we have to work out how we incorporate into it, into our education system, for sure. Michael Hingson  13:57 Well, I remember being in in college and studying physics and so on. And one of the things that we were constantly told is, on tests, you can't bring calculators in, can't use calculators in class. Well, why not? Well, because you could cheat with that. Well, the reality is that the smart physicists realized that it's all about really learning the concepts more than the numbers. And yeah, that's great to to know how to do the math. But the the real issue is, do you know the physics, not just the math completely? Nick Francis  14:34 Yeah. And then how you know? How are the challenges that are being set such that you know, they really test your ability to use the calculator effectively, right? So how you know? How are you lifting the bar? And in a way, I think that's kind of what we have to do, what we have to do now, Michael Hingson  14:50 agreed, agreed. So you were in the news business and so on, and then, as you said, you left to start your own company. Why did you decide to do that? Nick Francis  14:59 Well, a friend of. Ryan and I from University had always talked about doing this rally from London to Mongolia. So, and you do it in an old car that you sort of look at, and you go, well, that's a bit rubbish. It has to have under a one liter engine. So it's tiny, it's cheap. The idea is it breaks down you have an adventure. And it was something we kind of talked about in passing and decided that would be a good thing to do. And then over time, you know, we started sending off. We you know, we applied, and then we started sending off for visas and things. And then before we knew it, we were like, gosh, so it looks like we're actually going to do this thing. But by then, you know, my job at the BBC was really taking off. And so I said, you know, let's do this, but let's make a documentary of it. So long story short, we ended up making a series of diary films for Expedia, which we uploaded onto their website. It was, you know, we were kind of pitching this around about 2005 we kind of did it in 2006 so it was kind of, you know, nobody had really heard of YouTube. The idea of making videos to go online was kind of unheard of because, you know, broadband was just kind of getting sorry. It wasn't unheard of, but it was, it was very, it was a very nascent industry. And so, yeah, we went and drove 9000 miles over five weeks. We spent a week sitting in various different repair yards and kind of break his yards in everywhere from Turkey to Siberia. And when we came back, it became clear that the internet was opening up as this incredible medium for video, and video is such a powerful way to share emotion with a dispersed audience. You know, not that I would have necessarily talked about it in that in those terms back then, but it really seemed like, you know, every every web page, every piece of corporate content, could have a video aspect to it. And so we came back and had a few fits and starts and did some, I mean, we, you know, we made a series of hotel videos where we were paid 50 quid a day to go and film hotels. And it was hot and it was hard work. And anyway, it was rough. But over time, you know, we started to win some more lucrative work. And, you know, really, the company grew from there. We won some awards, which helped us to kind of make a bit of a name for ourselves. And this was, there's been a real explosion in technology, kind of shortly after when we did this. So digital SLRs, so, you know, old kind of SLR cameras, you know, turned into digital cameras, which could then start to shoot video. And so it, there was a real explosion in high quality video produced by very small teams of people using the latest technology creatively. And that just felt like a good kind of kick off point for our business. But we just kind of because we got in in kind of 2006 we just sort of beat a wave that kind of started with digital SLRs, and then was kind of absolutely exploded when video cell phones came on the market, video smartphones. And yeah, you know, because we had these awards and we had some kind of fairly blue chip clients from a relatively early, early stage, we were able to grow the company. We then expanded to the US in kind of 2011 20 between 2011 2014 and then we were working with a lot of the big tech companies in California, so it felt like we should maybe kind of really invest in that. And so I moved out here with some of our team in 2018 at the beginning of 2018 and I've been here ever since, wow. Michael Hingson  18:44 So what is it? What was it like starting a business here, or bringing the business here, as opposed to what it was in England? Nick Francis  18:53 It's really interesting, because the creatively the UK is so strong, you know, like so many, you know, from the Beatles to Led Zeppelin to the Rolling Stones to, you know, and then on through, like all the kind of, you know, film and TV, you know, Brits are very good at kind of Creating, like, high level creative, but not necessarily always the best at kind of monetizing it, you know. I mean, some of those obviously have been fantastic successes, right? And so I think in the UK, we we take a lot longer over getting, getting to, like, the perfect creative output, whereas the US is far more focused on, you know, okay, we need this to to perform a task, and frankly, if we get it 80% done, then we're good, right? And so I think a lot of creative businesses in the UK look at the US and they go, gosh. Firstly, the streets are paved with gold. Like the commercial opportunity seems incredible, but actually creating. Tracking it is incredibly difficult, and I think it's because we sort of see the outputs in the wrong way. I think they're just the energy and the dynamism of the US economy is just, it's kind of awe inspiring. But you know, so many businesses try to expand here and kind of fall over themselves. And I think the number one thing is just, you have to have a founder who's willing to move to the US. Because I think Churchill said that we're two two countries divided by the same language. And I never fully understood what that meant until I moved here. I think what it what he really means by that is that we're so culturally different in the US versus the UK. And I think lots of Brits look at America and think, Well, you know, it's just the same. It's just a bit kind of bigger and a bit Brasher, you know, and it and actually, I think if people in the US spoke a completely different language, we would approach it as a different culture, which would then help us to understand it better. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, it's been, it's been the most fabulous adventure to move here and to, you know, it's, it's hard sometimes, and California is a long way from home, but the energy and the optimism and the entrepreneurialism of it, coupled with just the natural beauty is just staggering. So we've made some of our closest friends in California, it's been absolutely fantastic. And across the US, it's been a fantastic adventure for us and our family. Michael Hingson  21:30 Yeah, I've had the opportunity to travel all over the US, and I hear negative comments about one place or another, like West Virginia, people eat nothing but fried food and all that. But the reality is, if you really take an overall look at it, the country has so much to offer, and I have yet to find a place that I didn't enjoy going to, and people I never enjoyed meeting, I really enjoy all of that, and it's great to meet people, and it's great to experience so much of this country. And I've taken that same posture to other places. I finally got to visit England last October, for the first time. You mentioned rugby earlier, the first time I was exposed to rugby was when I traveled to New Zealand in 2003 and found it pretty fascinating. And then also, I was listening to some rugby, rugby, rugby broadcast, and I tuned across the radio and suddenly found a cricket game that was a little bit slow for me. Yeah, cricket to be it's slow. Nick Francis  22:41 Yeah, fair enough. It's funny. Actually, we know what you're saying about travel. Like one of the amazing things about our Well, I kind of learned two sort of quite fundamentally philosophical things, I think, you know, or things about the about humans and the human condition. Firstly, like, you know, traveling across, you know, we left from London. We, like, drove down. We went through Belgium and France and Poland and Slovenia, Slovakia, Slovenia, like, all the way down Bulgaria, across Turkey into Georgia and Azerbaijan and across the Caspian Sea, and through Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, into Russia, and then down into Mongolia. When we finished, we were due north of Jakarta, right? So we drove, we drove a third of the way around the world. And the two things that taught me were, firstly that human people are good. You know, everywhere we went, people would invite us in to have meals, or they'd like fix our car for not unit for free. I mean, people were so kind everywhere we went. Yeah. And the other thing was, just, when we get on a plane and you fly from here to or you fly from London, say to we, frankly, you fly from London to Turkey, it feels unbelievably different. You know, you fly from London to China, and it's, you know, complete different culture. But what our journey towards us, because we drove, was that, you know, while we might not like to admit it, we're actually quite, you know, Brits are quite similar to the French, and the French actually are quite similar to the Belgians, and Belgians quite similar to the Germans. And, you know, and all the way through, actually, like we just saw a sort of slowly changing gradient of all the different cultures. And it really, you know, we are just one people, you know. So as much as we might feel that, you know, we're all we're all different, actually, when you see it, when you when you do a drive like that, you really, you really get to see how slowly the cultures shift and change. Another thing that's quite funny, actually, was just like, everywhere we went, we would be like, you know, we're driving to Turkey. They'd be like, Oh, God, you just drove through Bulgaria, you know, how is like, everything on your car not been stolen, you know, they're so dodgy that you Bulgarians are so dodgy. And then, you know, we'd get drive through the country, and they'd be like, you know, oh, you're going into Georgia, you know, gosh, what you go. Make, make sure everything's tied down on your car. They're so dodgy. And then you get into Georgia, and they're like, Oh my God, you've just very driven through Turkey this, like, everyone sort of had these, like, weird, yeah, kind of perceptions of their neighbors. And it was all nonsense, yeah, you know. Michael Hingson  25:15 And the reality is that, as you pointed out, people are good, you know, I think, I think politicians are the ones who so often mess it up for everyone, just because they've got agendas. And unfortunately, they teach everyone else to be suspicious of of each other, because, oh, this person clearly has a hidden agenda when it normally isn't necessarily true at all. Nick Francis  25:42 No, no, no, certainly not in my experience, anyway, not in my experience. But, you know, well, oh, go ahead. No, no. It's just, you know, it's, it is. It's, it is weird the way that happens, you know, well, they say, you know, if, if politicians fought wars rather than, rather than our young men and women, then there'd be a lot less of them. Yeah, so Well, Michael Hingson  26:06 there would be, well as I tell people, you know, I I've learned a lot from working with eight guy dogs and my wife's service dog, who we had for, oh, gosh, 14 years almost, and one of the things that I tell people is I absolutely do believe what people say, that dogs love unconditionally, unless they're just totally traumatized by something, but they don't trust unconditionally. The difference between dogs and people is that dogs are more open to trust because we've taught ourselves and have been taught by others, that everyone has their own hidden agenda. So we don't trust. We're not open to trust, which is so unfortunate because it affects the psyche of so many people in such a negative way. We get too suspicious of people, so it's a lot harder to earn trust. Nick Francis  27:02 Yeah, I mean, I've, I don't know, you know, like I've been, I've been very fortunate in my life, and I kind of always try to be, you know, open and trusting. And frankly, you know, I think if you're open and trusting with people, in my experience, you kind of, it comes back to you, you know, and maybe kind of looking for the best in everyone. You know, there are times where that's not ideal, but you know, I think you know, in the overwhelming majority of cases, you know, actually, you know, you treat people right? And you know what goes what goes around, comes around, absolutely. Michael Hingson  27:35 And I think that's so very true. There are some people who just are going to be different than that, but I think for the most part, if you show that you're open to trust people will want to trust you, as long as you're also willing to trust Nick Francis  27:51 them completely. Yeah, completely. Michael Hingson  27:54 So I think that that's the big thing we have to deal with. And I don't know, I hope that we, we will learn it. But I think that politicians are really the most guilty about teaching us. Why not to trust but that too, hopefully, will be something we deal with. Nick Francis  28:12 I think, you know, I think we have to, you know, it's, it's one of the tragedies of our age, I think, is that the, you know, we spent the 20th century, thinking that sex was the kind of ultimate sales tool. And then it took algorithms to for us to realize that actually anger and resentment are the most powerful sales tools, which is, you know, it's a it's something which, in time, we will work out, right? And I think the problem is that, at the minute, these tech businesses are in such insane ascendancy, and they're so wealthy that it's very hard to regulate them. And I think in time, what will happen is, you know, they'll start to lose some of that luster and some of that insane scale and that power, and then, you know, then regulation will come in. But you know whether or not, we'll see maybe, hopefully our civilization will still be around to see that. Michael Hingson  29:04 No, there is that, or maybe the Vulcans will show up and show us a better way. But you know, Nick Francis  29:11 oh, you know, I'm, I'm kind of endlessly optimistic. I think, you know, we are. We're building towards a very positive future. I think so. Yeah, it's just, you know, get always bumps along the way, yeah. Michael Hingson  29:24 So you named your company casual. Why did you do that? Or how did that come about? Nick Francis  29:30 It's a slightly weird name for something, you know, we work with, kind of, you know, global blue chip businesses. And, you know, casual is kind of the last thing that you would want to associate with, a, with a, with any kind of services business that works in that sphere. I think, you know, we, the completely honest answer is that the journalism course I did was television, current affairs journalism, so it's called TV cadge, and so we, when we made a film for a local charity as part of that course. Course, we were asked to name our company, and we just said, well, cash, cash casual, casual films. So we called it casual films. And then when my friend and I set the company up, kind of formally, to do the Mongol Rally, we, you know, we had this name, you know, the company, the film that we'd made for the charity, had gone down really well. It had been played at BAFTA in London. And so we thought, well, you know, we should just, you know, hang on to that name. And it didn't, you know, at the time, it didn't really seem too much of an issue. It was only funny. It was coming to the US, where I think people are a bit more literal, and they were a bit like, well, casual. Like, why casual, you know. And I remember being on a shoot once. And, you know, obviously, kind of some filmmakers can be a little casual themselves, not necessarily in the work, but in the way they present themselves, right? And I remember sitting down, we were interviewing this CEO, and he said, who, you know, who are you? Oh, we're casual films. He's like, Oh, is that why that guy's got ripped jeans? Is it? And I just thought, Damn, you know, we really left ourselves open to that. There was also, there was a time one of our early competitors was called Agile films. And so, you know, I remember talking to one of our clients who said, you know, it's casual, you know, when I have to put together a little document to say, you know, which, which supplier we should choose, and when I lay it on my boss's desk, and one says casual films, and one says agile films, it's like those guys are landing the first punch. But anyway, we, you know, we, what we say now is like, you know, we take a complex process and make it casual. You know, filmmaking, particularly for like, large, complex organizations where you've got lots of different stakeholders, can be very complicated. And so, yeah, we sort of say, you know, we'll take a lot of that stress off, off our clients. So that's kind of the rationale, you know, that we've arrived with, arrived at having spoken to lots of our clients about the role that we play for them. So, you know, there's a kind of positive spin on it, I guess, but I don't know. I don't know whether I'd necessarily call it casual again. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that or not, but, oh, Michael Hingson  32:00 it's unique, you know? So, yeah, I think there's a lot of merit to it. It's a unique name, and it interests people. I know, for me, one of the things that I do is I have a way of doing this. I put all of my business cards in Braille, so the printed business cards have Braille on them, right? Same thing. It's unique completely. Nick Francis  32:22 And you listen, you know what look your name is an empty box that you fill with your identity. They say, right? And casual is actually, it's something we've grown into. And you know it's we've been going for nearly 20 years. In fact, funny enough for the end of this year is the 20th anniversary of that first film we made for the for the charity. And then next summer will be our 20th anniversary, which is, you know, it's, it's both been incredibly short and incredibly long, you know, I think, like any kind of experience in life, and it's been some of the hardest kind of times of my entire life, and some of the best as well. So, you know, it's, it is what it is, but you know, casual is who we are, right? I would never check, you know? I'd never change it. Michael Hingson  33:09 Now, no, of course not, yeah. So is the actual name casual films, or just casual? Nick Francis  33:13 So it was casual films, but then everyone calls us casual anyway, and I think, like as an organization, we probably need to be a bit more agnostic about the outcome. Michael Hingson  33:22 Well, the reason I asked, in part was, is there really any filming going on anymore? Nick Francis  33:28 Well, that's a very that's a very good question. But have we actually ever made a celluloid film? And I think the answer is probably no. We used to, back in the day, we used to make, like, super eight films, which were films, I think, you know, video, you know, ultimately, if you're going to be really pedantic about it, it's like, well, video is a digital, digital delivery. And so basically, every film we make is, is a video. But there is a certain cachet to the you know, because our films are loved and crafted, you know, for good or ill, you know, I think to call them, you know, they are films because, because of the, you know, the care that's put into them. But it's not, it's, it's not celluloid. No, that's okay, yeah, well, Michael Hingson  34:16 and I know that, like with vinyl records, there is a lot of work being done to preserve and capture what's on cellular film. And so there's a lot of work that I'm sure that's being done to digitize a lot of the old films. And when you do that, then you can also go back and remaster and hopefully in a positive way, and I'm not sure if that always happens, but in a positive way, enhance them Nick Francis  34:44 completely, completely and, you know, it's, you know, it's interesting talking about, like, you know, people wanting to step back. You know, obviously vinyl is having an absolute as having a moment right now. In fact, I just, I just bought a new stylist for my for my record. Play yesterday. It sounded incredible as a joy. This gave me the sound quality of this new style. It's fantastic. You know, beyond that, you know, running a company, you know, we're in nine offices all over the world. We produce nearly 1000 projects a year. So, you know, it's a company. It's an incredibly complicated company. It's a very fun and exciting company. I love the fact that we make these beautifully creative films. But, you know, it's a bit, I wouldn't say it's like, I don't know, you don't get many MBAs coming out of business school saying, hey, I want to set up a video production company. But, you know, it's been, it's been wonderful, but it's also been stressful. And so, you know, I've, I've always been interested in pottery and ceramics and making stuff with my hands. When I was a kid, I used to make jewelry, and I used to go and sell it in nightclubs, which is kind of weird, but, you know, it paid for my beers. And then whatever works, I say kid. I was 18. I was, I was of age, but of age in the UK anyway. But now, you know, over the last few 18 months or so, I've started make, doing my own ceramics. So, you know, I make vases and and pictures and kind of all sorts of stuff out of clay. And it's just, it's just to be to unplug and just to go and, you know, make things with mud with your hands. It's just the most unbelievably kind of grounding experience. Michael Hingson  36:26 Yeah, I hear you, yeah. One of the things that I like to do is, and I don't get to do it as much as I would like, but I am involved with organizations like the radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound, which, every year, does recreations of old radio shows. And so we get the scripts we we we have several blind people who are involved in we actually go off and recreate some of the old shows, which is really a lot of fun, Nick Francis  36:54 I bet, yeah, yeah, sort of you know that connection to the past is, is, yeah, it's great radio. Radio is amazing. Michael Hingson  37:03 Anyway, what we have to do is to train some of the people who have not had exposure to old radio. We need to train them as to how to really use their voices to convey like the people who performed in radio, whatever they're doing, because too many people don't really necessarily know how to do that well. And it is, it is something that we're going to work on trying to find ways to get people really trained. And one of the ways, of course, is you got to listen to the old show. So one of the things we're getting more and more people to do when we do recreations is to go back and listen to the original show. Well, they say, Well, but, but that's just the way they did it. That's not necessarily the way it should be done. And the response is, no, that's not really true. The way they did it sounded natural, and the way you are doing it doesn't and there's reality that you need to really learn how to to use your voice to convey well, and the only way to do it is to listen to the experts who did it. Nick Francis  38:06 Yeah, well, it's, you know, it's amazing. The, you know, when the BBC was founded, all the news readers and anyone who appeared on on the radio to to present or perform, had to wear like black tie, like a tuxedo, because it was, you know, they're broadcasting to the nation, so they had to, you know, they had to be dressed appropriately, right, which is kind of amazing. And, you know, it's interesting how you know, when you, when you change your dress, when you change the way you're sitting, it does completely change the way that you project yourself, yeah, Michael Hingson  38:43 it makes sense, yeah, well, and I always enjoyed some of the old BBC radio shows, like the Goon Show, and completely some of those are so much fun. Nick Francis  38:54 Oh, great, yeah, I don't think they were wearing tuxedo. It's tuxedos. They would Michael Hingson  38:59 have been embarrassed. Yeah, right, right. Can you imagine Peter Sellers in a in a tux? It just isn't going to happen. Nick Francis  39:06 No, right, right. But yeah, no, it's so powerful. You know, they say radio is better than TV because the pictures are better. Michael Hingson  39:15 I agree. Yeah, sure, yeah. Well, you know, I I don't think this is quite the way he said it, but Fred Allen, the old radio comedian, once said they call television the new medium, because that's as good as it's ever going Nick Francis  39:28 to get. Yeah, right, right, yeah. Michael Hingson  39:32 I think there's truth to it. Whether that's exactly the way he said it or not, there's truth to that, yeah, but there's also a lot of good stuff on TV, so it's okay. Nick Francis  39:41 Well, it's so interesting. Because, you know, when you look at the it's never been more easy to create your own content, yeah, and so, you know, and like, in a way, TV, you know, he's not wrong in that, because it suddenly opened up this, this huge medium for people just to just create. Right? And, you know, and I think, like so many people, create without thinking, and, you know, and certainly in our kind of, in the in the world that we're living in now with AI production, making production so much more accessible, actually taking the time as a human being just to really think about, you know, who are the audience, what are the things that are going to what are going to kind of resonate with them? You know? Actually, I think one of the risks with AI, and not just AI, but just like production being so accessible, is that you can kind of shoot first and kind of think about it afterwards, and, you know, and that's never good. That's always going to be medium. It's medium at best, frankly. Yeah, so yeah, to create really great stuff takes time, you know, yeah, to think about it. Yeah, for sure, yeah. Michael Hingson  40:50 Well, you know, our podcast is called unstoppable mindset. What do you think that unstoppable mindset really means to you as a practical thing and not just a buzzword. Because so many people talk about the kinds of buzzwords I hear all the time are amazing. That's unstoppable, but it's really a lot more than a buzzword. It goes back to what you think, I think. But what do you think? Nick Francis  41:15 I think it's something that is is buried deep inside you. You know, I'd say the simple answer is, is just resilience. You know, it's, it's been rough. I write anyone running a small business or a medium sized business at the minute, you know, there's been some tough times over the last, kind of 1824, months or so. And, you know, I was talking to a friend of mine who she sold out of her business. And she's like, you know, how are things? I was like, you know, it's, it's, it's tough, you know, we're getting through it, you know, we're changing a lot of things, you know, we're like, we're definitely making the business better, but it's hard. And she's like, Listen, you know, when three years before I sold my company, I was at rock bottom. It was, I genuinely thought it was so stressful. I was crushed by it, but I just kept going. And she's just like, just keep going. And the only difference between success and failure is that resilience and just getting up every day and you just keep, keep throwing stuff at the wall, keep trying new things, keep working and trying to be better. I think, you know, it's funny when you look at entrepreneurs, I'm a member of a mentoring group, and I hope I'm not talking out of school here, but you know, there's 15 entrepreneurs, you know, varying sizes of business, doing all sorts, you know, across all sorts of different industries. And if you sat on the wall, if you were fly on the wall, and you sit and look at these people on a kind of week, month to month basis, and they all present on how their businesses are going. You go, this is this being an entrepreneur does not look like a uniformly fun thing, you know, the sort of the stress and just, you know, people crying and stuff, and you're like, gosh, you know, it's so it's, it's, it's hard, and yet, you know, it's people just keep coming back to it. And yet, I think it's because of that struggle that you have to kind of have something in built in you, that you're sort of, you're there to prove something. And I, you know, I've thought a lot about this, and I wonder whether, kind of, the death of my father at such a young age kind of gave me this incredible fire to seek His affirmation, you know. And unfortunately, obviously, the tragedy of that is like, you know, the one person who would never give me affirmation is my dad. And yet, you know, I get up every day, you know, to have early morning calls with the UK or with Singapore or wherever. And you know, you just just keep on, keeping on. And I think that's probably what and knowing I will never quit, you know, like, even from the earliest days of casual, when we were just, like a couple of people, and we were just, you know, kids doing our very best, I always knew the company was going to be a success act. Like, just a core belief that I was like, this is going to work. This is going to be a success. I didn't necessarily know what that success would look like. I just but I did know that, like, whatever it took, we would map, we'd map our way towards that figure it out. We'd figure it out. And I think, you know, there's probably something unstoppable. I don't know, I don't want to sound immodest, but I think there's probably something in that that you're just like, I am just gonna keep keep on, keeping on. Michael Hingson  44:22 Do you think that resilience and unstoppability are things that can be taught, or is it just something that's built into you, and either you have it or you don't? Nick Francis  44:31 I think it's something that probably, it's definitely something that can be learned, for sure, you know. And there are obviously ways that it can there's obviously ways it can be taught. You know, I was, I spent some time in the reserve, like the Army Reserve in the UK, and I just, you know, a lot of that is about teaching you just how much further you can go. I think what it taught me was it was so. So hard. I mean, honestly, some of the stuff we did in our training was, like, you know, it's just raining and raining and raining and, like, because all your kits soaking wet is weighs twice what it did before, and you just, you know, sleeping maybe, you know, an hour or two a night, and, you know, and there wasn't even anyone shooting at us, right? So, you know, like the worst bit wasn't even happening. But like, and like, in a sense, I think, you know, that's what they're trying to do, that, you know, they say, you know, train hard and fight easy. But I remember sort of sitting there, and I was just exhausted, and I just genuinely, I was just thought, you know, what if they tell me to go now, I just, I can't. I literally, I can't, I can't do it. Can't do it. And then they're like, right, lads, put your packs on. Let's go and just put your pack on. Off you go, you know, like, this sort of, the idea of not, like, I was never going to quit, just never, never, ever, you know, and like I'd physically, if I physically, like, literally, my physical being couldn't stand up, you know, I then that was be, that would be, you know, if I was kind of, like literally incapacitated. And I think what that taught me actually, was that, you know, you have what you believe you can do, like you have your sort of, you have your sort of physical envelope, but like that is only a third or a quarter of what you can actually achieve, right, you know. And I think what that, what the that kind of training is about, and you know, you can do it in marathon training. You can do it in all sorts of different, you know, even, frankly, meditate. You know, you train your mind to meditate for, you know, an hour, 90 minutes plus. You know, you're still doing the same. You know, there's a, there's an elasticity within your brain where you can teach yourself that your envelope is so much larger. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, like, is casual going to be a success? Like, I'm good, you know, I'm literally, I won't I won't stop until it is Michael Hingson  46:52 right, and then why stop? Exactly, exactly you continue to progress and move forward. Well, you know, when everything feels uncertain, whether it's the markets or whatever, what do you do or what's your process for finding clarity? Nick Francis  47:10 I think a lot of it is in having structured time away. I say structured. You build it into your calendar, but like, but it's unstructured. So, you know, I take a lot of solace in being physically fit. You know, I think if you're, if you feel physically fit, then you feel mentally far more able to deal with things. I certainly when I'm if I'm unfit and if I've been working too much and I haven't been finding the time to exercise. You know, I feel like the problems we have to face just loom so much larger. So, you know, I, I'll book out. I, you know, I work with a fan. I'm lucky enough to have a fantastic assistant who, you know, we book in my my exercise for each week, and it's almost the first thing that goes in the calendar. I do that because I can't be the business my my I can't be the leader my business requires. And it finally happened. It was a few years ago I kind of, like, the whole thing just got really big on me, and it just, you know, and I'm kind of, like, being crushed by it. And I just thought, you know what? Like, I can't, I can't fit other people's face mask, without my face mask being fit, fitted first. Like, in order to be the business my business, I keep saying that to be the lead in my business requires I have to be physically fit. So I have to look after myself first. And so consequently, like, you know, your exercise shouldn't be something just get squeezed in when you find when you have time, because, you know, if you've got family and you know, other things happening, like, you know, just will be squeezed out. So anyway, that goes in. First, I'll go for a bike ride on a Friday afternoon, you know, I'll often listen to a business book and just kind of process things. And it's amazing how often, you know, I'll just go for a run and, like, these things that have been kind of nagging away in the back of my mind, just suddenly I find clarity in them. So I try to exercise, like, five times a week. I mean, that's obviously more than most people can can manage, but you know that that really helps. And then kind of things, like the ceramics is very useful. And then, you know, I'm lucky. I think it's also just so important just to appreciate the things that you already have. You know, I think one of the most important lessons I learned last year was this idea that, you know, here is the only there. You know, everyone's working towards this kind of, like, big, you know, it's like, oh, you know, when I get to there, then everything's going to be okay, you know. And actually, you know, if you think about like, you know, and what did you want to achieve when you left college? Like, what was the salary band that you want? That you wanted to achieve? Right? A lot of people, you know, by the time you hit 4050, you've blown way through that, right? And yet you're still chasing the receding Summit, yeah, you know. And so actually, like, wherever we're trying to head to, we're already there, because once you get there, there's going to be another there that you're trying to. Head to right? So, so, you know, it's just taking a moment to be like, you know, God, I'm so lucky to have what I have. And, you know, I'm living in, we're living in the good old days, like right now, right? Michael Hingson  50:11 And the reality is that we're doing the same things and having the same discussions, to a large degree, that people did 50, 100 200 years ago. As you pointed out earlier, the fact is that we're, we're just having the same discussions about whether this works, or whether that works, or anything else. But it's all the same, Nick Francis  50:33 right, you know. And you kind of think, oh, you know, if I just, just, like, you know, if we just open up these new offices, or if we can just, you know, I think, like, look, if I, if I'd looked at casual when we started it as it is now, I would have just been like, absolute. My mind would have exploded, right? You know, if you look at what we've achieved, and yet, I kind of, you know, it's quite hard sometimes to look at it and just be like, Oh yeah, but we're only just starting. Like, there's so much more to go. I can see so much further work, that we need so many more things, that we need to do, so many more things that we could do. And actually, you know, they say, you know, I'm lucky enough to have two healthy, wonderful little girls. And you know, I think a lot of bread winners Look at, look at love being provision, and the idea that, you know, you have to be there to provide for them. And actually, the the truest form of love is presence, right? And just being there for them, and like, you know, not being distracted and kind of putting putting things aside, you know, not jumping on your emails or your Slack messages or whatever first thing in the morning, you know. And I, you know, I'm not. I'm guilty, like, I'm not, you know, I'm not one of these people who have this kind of crazy kind of morning routine where, like, you know, I'm incredibly disciplined about that because, you know, and I should be more. But like, you know, this stuff, one of the, one of the things about having a 24 hour business with people working all over the world is there's always things that I need to respond to. There's always kind of interesting things happening. And so just like making sure that I catch myself every so often to be like, I'm just going to be here now and I'm going to be with them, and I'm going to listen to what they're saying, and I'm going to respond appropriately, and, you know, I'm going to play a game with them, or whatever. That's true love. You know? Michael Hingson  52:14 Well, there's a lot of merit to the whole concept of unplugging and taking time and living in the moment. One of the things that we talked about in my book live like a guide dog, that we published last year, and it's all about lessons I've learned about leadership and teamwork and preparedness from eight guide dogs and my wife's service dog. One of the things that I learned along the way is the whole concept of living in the moment when I was in the World Trade Center with my fifth guide dog, Roselle. We got home, and I was going to take her outside to go visit the bathroom, but as soon as I took the harness off, she shot off, grabbed her favorite tug bone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog. Asked the veterinarians about him the next day, the people at Guide Dogs for the Blind, and they said, Well, did anything threaten her? And I said, No. And they said, there's your answer. The reality is, dogs live in the moment when it was over. It was over. And yeah, right lesson to learn. Nick Francis  53:15 I mean, amazing, absolutely amazing. You must have taken a lot of strength from that. Michael Hingson  53:20 Oh, I think it was, it was great. It, you know, I can look back at my life and look at so many things that have happened, things that I did. I never thought that I would become a public speaker, but I learned in so many ways the art of speaking and being relaxed at speaking in a in a public setting, that when suddenly I was confronted with the opportunity to do it, it just seemed like the natural thing to do. Nick Francis  53:46 Yeah, it's funny, because I think isn't public speaking the number one fear. It is. It's the most fit. It's the most feared thing for the most people. Michael Hingson  53:57 And the reality is going back to something that we talked about before. The reality is, audiences want you to succeed, unless you're a jerk and you project that, audiences want to hear what you have to say. They want you to be successful. There's really nothing to be afraid of but, but you're right. It is the number one fear, and I've never understood that. I mean, I guess I can intellectually understand it, but internally, I don't. The first time I was asked to speak after the World Trade Center attacks, a pastor called me up and he said, we're going to we're going to have a service outside for all the people who we lost in New Jersey and and that we would like you to come and speak. Take a few minutes. And I said, Sure. And then I asked him, How many people many people were going to be at the service? He said, 6000 that was, that was my first speech. Nick Francis  54:49 Yeah, wow. But it didn't bother me, you know, no, I bet Michael Hingson  54:54 you do the best you can, and you try to improve, and so on. But, but it is true that so many people. Are public speaking, and there's no reason to what Nick Francis  55:03 did that whole experience teach you? Michael Hingson  55:06 Well, one of the things that taught me was, don't worry about the things that you can't control. It also taught me that, in reality, any of us can be confronted with unexpected things at any time, and the question is, how well do we prepare to deal with it? So for me, for example, and it took me years after September 11 to recognize this, but one of the things that that happened when the building was hit, and Neither I, nor anyone on my side of the building really knew what happened. People say all the time, well, you didn't know because you couldn't see it. Well, excuse me, it hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building. And the last time I checked X ray vision was fictitious, so nobody knew. But did the building shake? Oh, it tipped. Because tall buildings like that are flexible. And if you go to any tall building, in reality, they're made to buffet in wind storms and so on, and in fact, they're made to possibly be struck by an airplane, although no one ever expected that somebody would deliberately take a fully loaded jet aircraft and crash it into a tower, because it wasn't the plane hitting the tower as such that destroyed both of them. It was the exploding jet fuel that destroyed so much more infrastructure caused the buildings to collapse. But in reality, for me, I had done a lot of preparation ahead of time, not even thinking that there would be an emergency, but thinking about I need to really know all I can about the building, because I've got to be the leader of my office, and I should know all of that. I should know what to do in an emergency. I should know how to take people to lunch and where to go and all that. And by learning all of that, as I learned many and discovered many years later, it created a mindset that kicked in when the World Trade Center was struck, and in fact, we didn't know until after both towers had collapsed, and I called my wife. We I talked with her just before we evacuated, and the media hadn't even gotten the story yet, but I never got a chance to talk with her until after both buildings had collapsed, and then I was able to get through and she's the first one that told us how the two buildings had been hit by hijacked aircraft. But the mindset had kicked in that said, You know what to do, do it and that. And again, I didn't really think about that until much later, but that's something that is a lesson we all could learn. We shouldn't rely on just watching signs to know what to do, no to go in an emergency. We should really know it, because the knowledge, rather than just having information, the true intellectual knowledge that we internalize, makes such a big difference. Nick Francis  57:46 Do you think it was the fact that you were blind that made you so much more keen to know the way out that kind of that really helped you to understand that at the time? Michael Hingson  57:56 Well, what I think is being blind and growing up in an environment where so many things could be unexpected, for me, it was important to know so, for example, when I would go somewhere to meet a customer, I would spend time, ahead of time, learning how to get around, learning how to get to where they were and and learning what what the process was, because we didn't have Google Maps and we didn't have all the intellectual and and technological things that we have today. Well intellectual we did with the technology we didn't have. So today it's easier, but still, I want to know what to do. I want to really have the answers, and then I can can more easily and more effectively deal with what I need to deal with and react. So I'm sure that blindness played a part in all of that, because if I hadn't learned how to do the things that I did and know the things that I knew, then it would have been a totally different ball game, and so sure, I'm sure, I'm certain that blindness had something to do with it, but I also know that, that the fact is, what I learned is the same kinds of things that everyone should learn, and we shouldn't rely on just the signs, because what if the building were full of smoke, then what would you do? Right? And I've had examples of that since I was at a safety council meeting once where there was somebody from an electric company in Missouri who said, you know, we've wondered for years, what do we do if there's a fire in the generator room, in the basement, In the generator room, how do people get out? And he and I actually worked on it, and they developed a way where people could have a path that they could follow with their feet to get them out. But the but the reality is that what people first need to learn is eyesight is not the only game in town. Yeah, right. Mean, it's so important to really learn that, but people, people don't, and we take too many things for granted, which is, which is really so unfortunate, because we really should do a li

Catherine Linka is the past president and current treasurer of the Puget Sound chapter of Sisters in Crime. The author of three traditionally published YA novels, her first adult suspense is currently making the rounds of publishers. Elle Cosimano called Catherine's last novel What I Want You to See “a stunning portrait of deception.” As a book buyer for an indie bookstore, Catherine learned everything about publishing they didn't tell her in grad school. Website: https://www.catherinelinka.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherine_linka/ *****************About SinCSisters in Crime (SinC) was founded in 1986 to promote the ongoing advancement, recognition and professional development of women crime writers. Through advocacy, programming and leadership, SinC empowers and supports all crime writers regardless of genre or place on their career trajectory.www.SistersinCrime.orgFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/sincworldwideInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/sincworldwide/Threads: https://www.threads.com/@sincworldwideBluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sincworldwide.bsky.socialTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sincworldwideeTikTok:: https://www.tiktok.com/@sincnationalLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sisters-in-crime/The SinC Writers' Podcast is produced by Julian Crocamo https://www.juliancrocamo.com/

Puget Sound Industrial Market Trends and Predictions for 2026 In this Five-Minute Friday episode of the Industrial Advisors Podcast, Bill Condon and Matt McGregor discuss recent trends in the Puget Sound industrial real estate market, focusing on net absorption and market activities. They highlight the market's positive momentum over the past 45 days, the potential closing of several deals by year-end, and outlook for the coming years. The hosts predict a slight negative absorption for the current year but are optimistic about significant positive absorption in the first half of 2026, driven by major deals involving companies like Amazon and other substantial projects. The episode concludes with forecasts for the end of the year and the first two quarters of 2026. 00:00 Market Momentum in the Last 45 Days 00:29 Introduction to Five Minute Friday Industrial Advisors 00:40 Net Absorption and Year-End Predictions 01:01 Big Deals on the Horizon 01:22 Amazon's Potential Moves 01:49 Activity in the 1 to 200 Range 02:21 Market Picking Up in the 20 to 50 Range 02:35 Year-End and 2026 Predictions 03:19 Conclusion and Farewell

News broke on Thursday, December 11, 2025 that the City of Des Moines, WA Hearing Examiner has denied the appeal of a coalition of groups working to halt the demolition of the Masonic Home of Washington. The Masonic Home is a sprawling hotel-like complex built in the 1920s south of Seattle as a retirement home for Freemasons in a park-like setting with a commanding view of Puget Sound. Feliks Banel's guests on this BONUS EPISODE of CASCADE OF HISTORY are Lloyd Lytle, a leader of the grassroots group working to prevent demolition of the historic Masonic Home of Washington in Des Moines, Washington, and Chris Moore, executive director of the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation. Both Lytle and Moore react to today's news, and talk about what comes next. Lytle's group is called Citizens for the Protection of Des Moines Historic Resources. They formed a coalition with Des Moines Historical Society and the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation and filed an appeal of the demolition permit issued in August 2025 by the City of Des Moines to property owner Zenith LLC. CASCADE OF HISTORY previously reached out to two different companies associated with Zenith LLC to request an interview; we have never heard back. GoFundMe to Help Retire the Debt of Legal Fees from Lloyd Lytle's Group: https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-the-masonic-home-of-des-moines-support-our-appeal LIVE BROADCAST from the street in front of the Masonic Home on September 14, 2025 https://soundcloud.com/cascadeofhistory/ep-119 Background via the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation's List of Most Endangered Places https://preservewa.org/most_endangered/masonic-home-washington/ CASCADE OF HISTORY is broadcast LIVE most Sunday nights at 8pm Pacific Time via SPACE 101.1 FM in Seattle and gallantly streams everywhere via www.space101fm.org. The radio station is located at historic Magnuson Park - formerly Sand Point Naval Air Station - on the shores of Lake Washington in Seattle. Subscribe to the CASCADE OF HISTORY podcast via most podcast platforms.

Big news for the show: The Pedalshift Project is setting up camp in a new city! This episode breaks down what that means for future tours, how this opens up brand-new riding possibilities, and why the destination may be a bit of a surprise and also not a surprise at all.   My new home: Seattle! Why? This move is all about geography, access, and expanding the Pedalshift touring sandbox. Seattle places world-class touring terrain right outside the door and increases the show's ability to cover more routes, more often. And yes—this is a return to the broader PNW. Think of it as a new basecamp, and not a commentary on my beloved Portland. It remains the land of sunshine and bunnies, and it's just down I-5. There's obviously other details to all of this but they are far more weedsy than worth getting into for you all. Let's focus on the parts that impact the pod!   What Seattle Unlocks for Bike Adventures Puget Sound & the Islands Bainbridge, Vashon, Whidbey, and the San Juans Ferry-based overnighters and S24Os Olympic Peninsula ACA Pacific Coast connections Port Townsend → Sequim → Forks routes Big coastal scenery for trip diaries Cascade Range Palouse to Cascades Trail (hello, cross-state gravel epic) Snoqualmie Pass corridor North Cascades Highway rides when the snow gods allow British Columbia Vancouver + Victoria loops Easier cross-border touring content Western US Access Simpler jumps to NorCal, SoCal, Alaska, and Rocky Mountain tour starts   How the Show Evolves   More Micro-Tours Seattle puts quality riding minutes—not hours—away, which means more short trips, more experiments, more rapid-fire episodes. Some Non-Bicycle Adventures Exploring by foot - hiking, urban adventures and more. Not a replacement for bikes, but a compliment. New Possible Arcs The Islands Project The Puget Sound Loops Palouse to Cascades: Piece by Piece Return to the Coast (Seattle → Portland → Coast → beyond) Year-Round Riding Milder PNW winters = more shoulder-season content and gear discussions. Also proximity to southern CA for winter riding?   What Stays the Same The philosophy of intentional, practical, joyful bike travel Long-form tours and multi-state adventures Portland is the land of sunshine and bunnies, and Seattle will need a tagline   Early Seattle Recon Riding West Seattle, Alki, and Elliott Bay Ferry recon missions Scouting trails, routes, and spots for easy S24Os Checking out the local bike shop ecosystem   Production Notes Scheduling in winter and spring TBD with some back and forth travel Regular episode cadence with best-of's    Listener Input Wanted Got Seattle, Puget Sound, or PNW route suggestions? Hidden gems? Ferries worth timing for golden hour? Winter riding hacks? Hit me up—I'll feature the best ones in future episodes.

VYS0054 | You Can't Make An Omelette Without Breaking A Few Egregores - Vayse to Face with Joshua Cutchin - show notes Having released 53 episodes of Vayse without interviewing Joshua Cutchin is nothing short of an embarrassment - and one that Hine and Buckley are keen to make up for. Joshua is a writer, a researcher and a musician, having written modern classics of weird non-fiction including A Trojan Feast, Ecology of Souls and most recently the mind-bending, mind-expanding and mind-blowing masterpiece, Fourth Wall Phantoms. Like hungry Sasquatches devouring a Roc egg, Hine and Buckley are in a feeding frenzy, ravenous for Joshua's thoughts, ideas and insights. The particularly wandering conversation goes all the way from real-life encounters with fictional characters to the fabric of reality itself and the possibility that our beliefs are what holds it together... and, naturally, Hine and Buckley take the opportunity to introduce Joshua to the Peanut King... (recorded 6 November 2025) Joshua Cutchin Links Website - joshuacutchin.com (https://www.joshuacutchin.com/) Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/w3eirdwayz?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==) You Can't Make An Omelette Without Breaking A Few Egregores Fourth Wall Phantoms (https://www.joshuacutchin.com/fourth-wall-phantoms) by Joshua Cutchin Jaques Vallée - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vall%C3%A9e) John Keel - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Keel) Jane Goodall - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall) Bigfoot - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot) Where the Footprints End: High Strangeness and the Bigfoot Phenomenon (https://www.joshuacutchin.com/wherethefootprintsendv1) by Joshua Cutchin and Timothy Renner Ecology Of Souls (https://www.joshuacutchin.com/ecology-of-souls-one) by Joshua Cutchin King Kong - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Kong_(1933_film)) King Kong Trailer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbrikL8IjXM) Stan Winston - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Winston) Ray Harryhausen - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Harryhausen) Unexplained!: Strange Sightings, Incredible Occurrences, and Puzzling Physical Phenomena (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13592614-unexplained?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_22) by Jerome Clark Raincoast Sasquatch: The Bigfoot / Sasquatch Records of Southeast Alaska, Coastal British Columbia & Northwest Washington from Puget Sound to Yakutat (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1012569.Raincoast_Sasquatch?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_13) by J. Robert Alley A Trojan Feast (https://www.joshuacutchin.com/a-trojan-feast) by Joshua Cutchin Anomalist Books (https://www.anomalistbooks.com/index.cfm) The Field Guide to Lake Monsters, Sea Serpents, and Other Mystery Denizens of the Deep by Loren Coleman and Patrick Huyghe - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98779.The_Field_Guide_to_Lake_Monsters_Sea_Serpents_and_Other_Mystery_Denizens_of_the_Deep) The Ark Encounter (https://arkencounter.com/) Tree of Souls: The Mythology of Judaism (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1099179.Tree_of_Souls?ref=nav_sb_ss_3_13) by Howard Schwartz Claude Lecouteux - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Lecouteux) Aimé Michel - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aim%C3%A9_Michel) The Shadow - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow) John Constantine - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Constantine) Embodied Imaginations: Fictional Characters Making Experiential Crossings into Real Life: An Unusual Phenomenon by Chidambaram Ramesh - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/175612525-embodied-imaginations?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=yeylw84PuJ&rank=2) Tulpa - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa) Fourth Wall - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall) Metalepsis - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalepsis) Deadpool - Fandom (https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Wade_Wilson_(Earth-616)) Deep Weird: The Varieties of High Strangeness Experience - edited by Jack Hunter - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/75715021-deep-weird?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=4iE3dVge7t&rank=2) Ferris Bueller's Day Off - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferris_Bueller%27s_Day_Off) Ferris Bueller's Day Off - Trailer - Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ferris+bueller%27s+day+off+trailer) The Big Lebowski - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Lebowski) The Big Lebowski - Trailer - Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd-go0oBF4Y) The Trickster and the Paranormal by George P. Hansen - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/669028.The_Trickster_and_the_Paranormal?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_29) Jacques Vallée Still Doesn't Know What UFOs Are by Chantel Tattoli - Wired (https://www.wired.com/story/jacques-vallee-still-doesnt-know-what-ufos-are/) Anxiety Dream - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety_dream) Gift For Gardening: Is The Green Thumb A Myth? by Nikki Tilley - Gardening Know How (https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/lifestyle/myth-of-the-green-thumb.htm) Placebo - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo) What's It Like to Take Google's Mindfulness Training? by Mirabai Bush - Mindful.org (https://www.mindful.org/whats-it-like-to-take-googles-mindfulness-training/) An Airplane-Sized Bird and Roc Eggs in 1961 Miami - American Strageness - Thunderbirdphoto.com (https://thunderbirdphoto.com/f/an-airplane-sized-bird-and-roc-eggs-in-1961-miami) The Monster Munch Monsters - Fandom (https://admascots.fandom.com/wiki/Monster_Munch_Monsters) Smiths Crisps - Monster Munch - Dream - 1977 - UK Advert - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70RMn9nh_mo) American Gods by Neil Gaiman - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30165203-american-gods) Hellier Season 1: Episode 1 | The Midnight Children - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1FwIuicx88) Terence McKenna - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna) Hyperstition - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperstition) Mitch Horowitz (https://www.mitchhorowitz.com/contact) Mr Peanut - Planters.com (https://www.planters.com/mr-peanut/) Game of Thrones - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones) Seinfeld - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinfeld) H. P. Lovecraft - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft) Cthulhu - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu) Kenneth Grant - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Grant_(occultist)) The Blair Witch Project - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blair_Witch_Project) The Philadelphia Experiment - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment) The Montauk Project - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montauk_Project) The Roswell Incident - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_incident) Austin Osman Spare - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Osman_Spare) Albert Ostman - sasquatchalberta.com (https://sasquatchalberta.com/classic-encounters/albert-ostmans-abduction/) Joshua's Recommendations King of Morning, Queen of Day by Ian McDonald - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/666829.King_of_Morning_Queen_of_Day?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=6sJ4auabu0&rank=1) New Moon by Ian McDonald - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23848027-new-moon) Wolf Moon by Ian McDonald - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28220871-wolf-moon) Moon Rising by Ian McDonald - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36229297-moon-rising) The Ridge by Michael Koryta - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/9548502-the-ridge) Rabbit Trap - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_Trap) Arrival - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrival_(film)) Fargo Season 2 - Wikiepdia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo_season_2) Red Dead Redmeption 2 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Redemption_2) Reservation Dogs - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_Dogs) Esalen Institute - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esalen_Institute) Labyrinth - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth_(1986_film)) The Muppets - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Muppets) David Bowie - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie) Hellboy - Wikiepdia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellboy) Slimer - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slimer) Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted%27s_Bogus_Journey) Kermit the Frog - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_the_Frog) Vayse online Website (https://www.vayse.co.uk/) Twitter (https://twitter.com/vayseesyav) Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/vayseesyav.bsky.social) Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/vayseesyav/) Bandcamp (Music From Vayse) (https://vayse.bandcamp.com/) Ko-Fi (https://ko-fi.com/vayse) Email: vayseinfo@gmail.com Special Guest: Joshua Cutchin.

How do you identify “an expert”? The answer to this question is more complex than you might think. Most of us might think of people with multiple degrees or extensive experience in a specific field as experts. However, as our guest this week is discovering, experts can be people with passion, people with connections or people with specific job titles. Recognizing the enacted and relationally valued characteristics of an expert is essential to creating systems where experts that reflect a community's ideas and values are the ones making the decisions. One example is the community of people around and connected to the Puget Sound watershed region and the jurisdiction of the Puget Sound Partnership: an area spanning 12 counties and 28 recognized Tribal Nations. Large restoration efforts are underway to restore Puget Sound and prime the ecosystem for climate adaptation. These efforts hinge on not just access to climate adaptation knowledge, but who is recognized to apply such knowledge and the social structures to shape its uptake. Our guest this week is Krista Harrington, a 4th year PhD Candidate in the Department of Fisheries, Wildlife, and Conservation Sciences. Krista utilizes political ecology and science, technology, and society theory in environmental natural resource management. During her Bachelor's degree, Master's degree and time spent working in wildlife conversation, she kept asking herself “who are we going to for expertise?”. This question ultimately shaped the path of her PhD work and is how she is contributing to restoring Puget Sound. Hosted by Emilee Lance and Esteban Hernandez

2014's Pompeii is all over the place. Designed to be a Roman apocalypse story with a star making turn by Game of Thrones' Kit Harrington, Pompeii fizzled at the box office. But strangely, it's a phenomenal film to talk about the Roman empire and the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. Historian and archaeologist Dr. Steven Tuck joins in to talk everything this film gets right and wrong about Roman history. Easily one of our best episodes ever.About our guest:Steven L. Tuck is a professor of classics, who is currently head of classics at Miami University. He teaches many classics courses at Miami University, especially those relating to the arts.He received a Ph.D. in Classical Art and Archaeology from University of Michigan in 1997, and he is the author of the textbook A History of Roman Art. In addition to his teaching, he has lectured the general public at Classics at the University of Colorado Boulder, Yale University, the University of Puget Sound, Baylor University and for the Getty Villa. He has also appeared in the media discussing classics, including in a 2019 feature for Atlas Obscura on the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 C.E. and its impact on refugees and migration in the ancient world. For the Vergilian Society, he managed the Villa Vergiliana in Cumae, and organized educational programs there. He is also the author of the brand new book Escape from Pompeii: The Great Eruption of Mount Vesuvius and Its Survivors.

Happy Thanksgiving you turkeys!  Enjoy an interview with the gin-u-wine heirs to the Blackball Ferry legacy, brought to you by Friends Of The Boaty Show. Skip to that at around 26:00, or dig in for  your dose of BS silly with an epic Old Boat Ad and Steph's stories from the largest outdoor hot tub park in North America... Spa Nordique!  Boaty Show hats are now available at www.theboatyshow.com/merch. We love you and are thankful for you, thanks for listening!    Jeff: Hi. If you enjoy the Boaty Show, you may enjoy my new audiobook. It's about AI and how we can live with it. You Teach The Machines: AI on Your Terms. Out wherever you get your audiobooks. By me, Jeff Pennington. [Music] Jeff: Welcome back listeners. I'm Jeff Pennington. I'm joined by my co-host... Steph: Stephanie Weiss. Jeff: Sipping on her coffee. It is Sunday, still morning. We, uh, we both have fires going. Mine's downstairs, Steph's is right in front of her in her living room. We're remote, and it's been a minute. We're not gonna talk about that. We're just gonna jump right back in. Right? Steph: Yeah, let's jump right in. Jeff: Jump right in. Like it's summer and we're going swimming again. Steph: Exactly. Exactly. Jeff: We have, uh, we have a show today. We're gonna do a segment on the Puget Sound ferry system—the history of. And we're gonna do, uh... what do we got? We got a "Old Boat Ad" from Jay. He was touring down in, uh, Whatchamacallit, Florida? Sarasota. He sent a picture of an alligator, which I will contend is Boaty. Steph: You want my opinion on that? Jeff: I want your opinion on that. Steph: I mean, it does... it does get from one place to the other. I don't know if they do that without getting wet, but yeah. I admit, boat adjacent. If you've seen an alligator, you wish you were in a boat. I mean, I can think of many ways that alligator is Boaty. Yes. Jeff: That was... that was excellent commentary. Thank you very much. Steph: You're welcome. Jeff: Wait, when you were down there last winter for the fundraising visit and you found that waterfront, that waterfront bar that served like drinks in buckets or something? Were there any alligators around then? Steph: Yeah. Well, yes. We were told there were alligators around, but I didn't see an alligator. But I did see lots and lots of signs about the alligators. Remember the signs? Jeff: In particular that it was alligator mating season. Steph: That's what it was! Yes. "Do not approach the mating alligator" or something super weird like that. Like... yes. That's right. Jeff: And then we did a whole... we did a whole, I mean we might have had a series of bits on alligator mating. And why you weren't supposed to go in the water when they were mating? Was it because it was gross? Because it's like, you know, it's the water that they're mating in and what's all that about? Or because you don't want like the throes of alligator mating ecstasy to like, end up with you getting like, you know, I don't know. Maybe they like bite each other in the midst of all that and you don't want to get confused... like get a body part confused. Steph: Right. Is there more traditional aggression? Right. Are they more aggressive when they're mating? These are questions. And then we had—I think we ended up really wondering whether that was a deep water thing or just a shoreline thing. Like if you're out in the middle, do you have to worry about that? Remember? We had this... this was a whole conversation. Jeff: I think... but I do think that it's ridiculous because... because like, if you see alligators whether they're mating or not, could we all just assume you don't go in the water? I just seems unnecessary, but... Jeff: And we'll count that as the only answer worth taking away because I only recall the questions we had at the time. Uh, and I don't recall any resolution of any of this. So, um, interesting though that Jay... winter-ish, maybe mating season or not. It looked like the picture was a solo... solo alligator. It was just, just an alligator. Unless maybe it was an alligator couple and you couldn't see the other alligator because that alligator was underwater? Steph: Like... that just occurred to me when you said... great minds think alike. Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Steph: We should ask Jay. Jeff: We should ask Jay what was going on. Steph: Or not so great minds think alike. Jeff: All right. All right. So I think we should lead off with, uh, since we're talking about Jay and his trip through Florida—he played at least one show down there, I saw a picture of a backyard concert, looked lovely. Or an outdoor concert I shouldn't say, I don't know if it was backyard or not, looked lovely. And, uh, he sent a boat ad. And since this is his favorite segment, we're gonna do it. Steph: Mmm. Do it. [Music: Old Boat Ad Jingle] Jeff: It's... I can't... It's been so long that we've done this that when we were in the middle of doing it all the time, it seemed completely normal. And now when we're like... we're like four months away from doing it regularly or whatever, and it's like holy [bleep]. What the hell is this? That was a song about old boat ad copy from Jay and that was like... like, you know, I don't know, six months ago I was like, "Well yeah, of course Jay's gonna make a song saying 'Come on Jeff read those vintage boaty advertisements, give us some of them old boat ads.'" And that was like in the midst of it, it was like "Yeah fine." And now it's like, what the [bleep] is this? Oh my god! Steph: And people want... people are like, "Hey man when are you gonna start making that show again?" 'Cause they want this nonsense! Jeff: Oh god. That makes me so happy. It's good to be weird. Steph: It's good to be weird. Jeff: Okay. All that aside, notwithstanding. Let's do it. Okay. Jay found this ad in the wild. I don't know where it was. Um, I'm looking at the picture. It looks like it's in a frame. Maybe it was in like... I'm gonna say it was in a bathroom at a bar that he was at, or a restaurant perhaps, and it was above the urinal and he saw this. It was right in front of his face. "You can't blame a guy for boasting about his new Mercury. Not only pride of possession, but downright satisfaction comes with the ownership of a new Mercury Outboard Motor. When you put a Mercury on a boat, you are completely confident of quick, easy starting and effortless 'hold the course' steering. You know that there will be instant response to every touch of the throttle. Whether you want a burst of flashing speed or just a ripple of hushed power for the slowest possible trolling. The new Mercury with 'Full Jeweled Powerhead'—bears repeating—Full Jeweled, yes like bling bling jewels, Full Jeweled Powerhead gives you greater all-around mechanical efficiency and endurance never before known in an outboard motor. Yes, with your Mercury, you'll experience that pride of possession realized only by those who own the finest." Scrolling down through the ad... that was the main copy presented next to uh, a lovely couple in a, looks like a Penn Yan outboard skiff uh, with an outboard obviously on the back. Um, she of course is reclining. He of course is driving. Um, and he's holding his hand out like, "Ah! Oh my god this is great!" Like out to the side like, "Can you believe it?" "Of course, of course this is great." Um, he doesn't look so polished, he's kind of look got... he's got some bedhead and a t-shirt on. She looks put together. Um, so he must have a great personality. Steph: [Laughs] Jeff: So scrolling down there's like more details. Um, mostly for him because there's like cutaway diagrams and whatnot. So: "The Rocket. A six horsepower precision-built alternate firing twin with sparkling power that will plane a boat beautifully. Yet throttle down for... oh, yet throttle down to a hush for continuous trolling. Another exclusive Mercury first." This is more on the Full Jeweled Powerhead. "Mercury's Full Jeweled Powerhead. Mercury engineers have developed a method of using roller bearings on wrist pins, crank pins, and crank shaft. It results in reduction of mechanical friction, new power and smoothness, readier response to the throttle, many more months of service-free operation than any outboard with conventional plain bearings." "The Comet. A smooth running 3.2 horsepower single. The ideal family outboard. Just right for your car-top boat or the average rental boat. Mercury. Own a Mercury. Matchless and outboard excellence. Kiekhaefer Corporation, Cedarburg, Wisconsin. Outboard Motors. Portable Industrial Engines." There you go. Old Boat Ad. Steph: I have a lot of questions. And an observation. Jeff: Go. Steph: I love how the masthead of this ad if you will—I don't know if that's the right word for it—but it's a... it's a bubble, it's a like a word bubble coming from the guy in the boat, right? "You can't blame a guy for boasting about his new Mercury." I love like the... I love all of the like the um... how proud you should be. Like there's a lot of like, you know, you just... you're just going to boast and it's going to be like everyone's going to be impressed with you. There's going to be "Pride of Possession." Which I think is very interesting. And then what is going on with the jewels? I don't understand the jewels and why are we talking about jewels? There's no jewels in this. Jeff: There's roller bearings. Steph: What is that? And how is it like a jewel? Is it a ruby? Jeff: Well, my guess is given that this is setting the guy up to boast, if it was made out of ruby it would have said that, right? But I can say... Steph: I agree. Jeff: I can say that I don't know whether it's jeweled or made out of a jewel or not. But uh, different... there's different kinds of bearings. I know a little bit about bearings. Not a lot. Steph: Didn't we talk about bearings once before? Jeff: I'm sure we did. I'm sure we did. Steph: I like this sentence... I like this sentence a lot. "The Mercury engineers have developed a method of using roller bearings on wrist pins, crank pins, and crank shaft." What? Jeff: Uh, I don't know what a wrist pin is. I don't know what a crank... was it a wrist pin and a crank pin? Steph: Wrist pins and crank pins. Yeah. Things I didn't know about. But I love... I also love that they're getting into this level of detail right in the ad. This is the good old days. You know what I mean? Like this is... this is the least reductive ad I've ever seen. They're really... they're just... they hit you a little bit with the ego in the top and then they get right into the deep, deep details. I think this is lovely. It was... it was lovely to listen to. Jeff: So you got... I don't know what those pins are. The crank... I don't know. Let's not talk about why you've got bearings or what they're on, but ball bearings are balls. And... Steph: [Laughs silently] Jeff: ...you're laughing silently with our... Steph: Wrist bearings are wrists? Crank pins are cranks? I don't know. Jeff: No. We're not gonna talk about that stuff. We're just gonna talk about the bearings. So you got ball bearings which are spherical, okay? And then you've got roller bearings which are like a... in my mind it's a bearing that's made of a... it looks like a rolling pin, okay? And a ball bearing can... can bear weight while moving in all directions because it's a sphere. Steph: 360. Jeff: Yup. 360 times 360, right? In any direction. And then a roller bearing can bear... bear weight while moving just in like one direction back and forth. One plane I guess. And uh, I know roller bearings because there are conical roller bearings on boat trailers in the hubs of the boat trailer. Um, because the... and they're almost like a rolling pin shape except they're flared a little bit at, you know, toward one end so it's like a slight cone shape. And that's because the axle on your boat trailer has a slight taper to it. And so the wheel spinning on those bearings on that slightly tapered axle shaft has to be slightly... has to match that taper as it spins around and around and around. Um, now, that being said, going from, you know, roller bearings to "jeweled"? That's... that's what I'm talking about right there. Yup. Steph: Full Jeweled. Yeah. I mean I don't know. I guess... you know how I feel about this stuff. I kind of love things that I don't understand and there's a lot here I don't understand. And I think this is a lovely... so we've got two en... Is the Rocket one and the Comet is the other? They have space names. Amazing. Jeff: Yeah. And this was before... this might have been early space era. Yeah. Steph: Yeah. Early space race. Jeff: It look... I like that it's like, it's just a little boat. Nothing fancy. It's just a little tin can. Steph: Yeah. Rockin' out. Or having a great time. They're all proud... proud of themselves. Jeff: They mentioned "Car Top Boats" which was a... that was a big deal in the expansion of boating into the middle class. And... yeah. So Penn Yan, the boat manufacturer, my understanding is they hit it big for the first time with car-top boats. So Penn Yan Car Toppers, you'll still see those around sometimes. And that was like what pontoon boats and jet skis are doing... they did for boating then what pontoon boats and jet skis are doing now. Which is just making it way more accessible. Steph: I hear you. Jeff: Yeah. Steph: I hear you. "There it is. Just right for your car-top boat or the average rental boat." Got it. Yeah. Jeff: Yeah. Give me... give me more opportunity to get in the water without having to be a rich guy with my own dock or a yacht or anything like that. Steph: Mm-hm. Equal opportunity boating. Jeff: E... E... E-O-B. E-O-B-B. Equal Opportunity Boating Board. Okay. Enough of that. Steph: Yes. That's a... that's a worthy goal. Jeff: All right. We're gonna move on to our... our next topic. Which, you know what? Let's... let's step back. What have you been doing lately? Steph: Mmm. That's a great question. Um... Jeff: Have you gone anywhere? Have you gone anywhere fun? Steph: I did. I went to the... I went to the Spa Nordique in... in Chelsea, Quebec. Yes. I did do that. I was... show before the show we were chatting about this. Yes. I did go there with my friend Julie, my personal historian. And we had a wonderful time. Jeff: What is the Spa Nordique? Tell us... You walk up to the Spa Nordique. What's the experience? Steph: Okay. So real... so real quick. It's like... it's not like a spa like people usually think of a spa. It's a "thermal experience." It's got this whole Nordic vibe to it. Everything's made of wood. And it's a very large... it's many acres. And it has tons of different ways to get warm and cold in water. And also not in water. So, for example, there's like ten different outdoor hot tubs scattered all over the place. And there's like fifteen different kinds of saunas. There's like a earth sauna and a barrel sauna and a Russian sauna and a whatever. There's like... And then there's um, also like steam rooms. And there's cold plunges, which is not for me, but for other people. And there's places to eat and drink. And that's it. And you put on a robe, you leave your phone and all your [bleep] behind and you just wander around in this environment for the day. It's very affordable. Like sixty bucks for the whole day, like US. And it is very beautiful and it's very calming. And very relaxing. And it's delightful. And I would recommend it to everybody. So I've been there probably four or five times. And um, it's close, you know it's like two hours away from here. It's not far. And I think it's the largest spa in North America. But it's not like busy feeling. It's very calming and relaxing. Jeff: We're gonna... we're gonna back up to the very... one of the first two... two of the first words you said which was "thermal experience." Steph: Yeah. That's what they call it. Um... yeah, I don't know. I guess you're just getting in warm water. And then you're supposed to get in cold water cause it's good for you, but like I said, that's just not for me. But um... but you know like, it's like good for you. I don't know. You're supposed to like steam yourself and then get... We were... it was like snowing when we were there. There was actually a hail storm that happened. Like a full-on hail storm um, when we were sitting in one of the hot... my favorite hot tub which is like a hot spring kind of a thing. It's up at the top. And um, they totally just started hailing. And it looks like... like accumulating in our hair. It was very exciting. Jeff: Thankfully... thankfully accumulating in your hair and not like... they were baseball sized and like braining you and knocking you out. Steph: Right. No, they were not baseball sized. Which is good news. They were small and they were accumulating and it was very snow monkey. The whole experience is like just being a snow monkey for the day. That's it. That's how... Jeff: Can you make this up? Thermal experience. Be a snow mon... have a... have a thermal expe... we're gonna have to write an ad for this. Have a thermal experience as a... be a snow monkey for the day. Steph: I don't know why that's not their tagline. For... I don't know why not. It makes no sense. Jeff: So the other thing that grabbed me about... about this is you said you leave your phone behind. Which I think is probably healthy because that means that um, people aren't like nervous about somebody taking a picture of them when they, you know, take their robe off and get in the... in the tub or whatever. But also, dude, anything that people do where they leave their phones behind... those are becoming more and more valuable experiences as people just come to the conclusion that their phone makes them sick. And I had this experience recently... did... did an um... one of my book events at uh, the Poor Sethi headquarters in Brooklyn. In Gowanus. Uh, the Gowanus neighborhood of Brooklyn. And afterward, my... my daughter Mary Jane was there uh, and it was the first time she'd come to see one of these... these talks. The book talks. And uh, she brought a few of her friends who had moved to New York after graduating... they all graduated last spring. And they were so psyched. They're like, "Oh my god. Why does it feel so... so like novel to get together in person in a room and talk about something and talk to... with each other?" Because it was a... it ended up being a really interactive session. People were going back and forth to each other. And I started to fade a bit into the background which is what I go for with these... these events. They're kind of like group therapy community workshops about, you know, AI in your life. Not so much what AI is, but like how AI merges into your life. Anyway, at Spa Nordique, it's a thermal experience minus your phone. And you're there for the day or most of the day because you want to get... you want to get as much thermal experience as you can for your sixty dollars. So that's a day without your phone. That's freaking awesome. Steph: Yeah. And when I fir... when we first started going a few years ago, it was pretty much like "Don't bring your phone in here." Like it was like a kind of a rule. Now it's like um, you're allowed to bring your phone, but most people don't. So every now and then there'll be somebody with a phone. But the other funny thing is that... that you know, it's an adjustment going... like you said, you go for the whole day because it's... it's big, there's you know places to stop in and have a bite to eat or get a beverage or whatever. So you really do stay there for a while and you do really disengage from the sense of time. And it's funny how many times you're like, you know, think of things that normally you'd be looking up to your phone but you just don't do it cause you can't. But my... but one funny... one funny thing that happened when we got there was... um... when you first walk in on the left there's this very cool like... like experience. Like it's like a... like they do a Boreal Forest experience and they like um, they like wave branches around and like whatever. So that happens at certain times. So do we really want to do it? Because afterwards you were like rub salts all over your body and then there's like a flash dance bucket that you dump on yourself... you really... you have to be... obviously you need to get involved in something like that. So we were looking at the times. And then we were like... and like Julie and I together are like we're always like a little on the spazzy side anyway. Like it's always... things are always just awkward and weird and great. And like... so we were like, "Okay. So we can come back at one at eleven? Or maybe..." And then it's in like... it's like Canadian time so it's like 1300 and 1500 and we don't know what that means. It's complicated. So it's just... it was so hard. We were like talking about it and... and then this... and we were like, "How are we gonna come back? How are we gonna know when to come back because we don't have phones?" And then um, so then a nice young man who worked at the spa went by and we asked him... The other thing is just constant like language situation going on about wheth... you know we don't speak French. Everybody else does. So you know... and they're very sweet about it. But you know you always have to navigate the fact that you're speaking English. And so we in English ask this nice young man what time it is. And he paused. And I thought maybe it was just because he had to switch into English in his brain. I don't know why. But and he looked at us. And he was like, "Well, right now it's blah blah blah o'clock," and he like explained what time it was and um, the fact that it would be this time in an hour and a half we could come back and the thing would do it again. And then he kind of like looked at us and we were like, "Okay great thank you." And we left. But then later when we came back to actually do the experience, I... we were sitting in the sauna and I looked out and there is a clock so big. Like so big. It's hu... it's huge. It's like... it's like seven feet across. And it was right behind... right behind us when we had asked the guy what time it was! And we realized that like the long pause was like, "Should I just tell them that there's a clock right there? Or should I just be really nice about this and just answer the question and not point out the clock?" Like for sure he was like... are these people being... is this wrong? Are these people... Jeff: Are they... are they messing with me? Steph: ...messing with me? And and he's... he's Canadian but he's also French Canadian so like he he also like... because if you're not French Canadian and you're Canadian the stereotype is like you're just super nice and you're just gonna be super nice and... "Oh of course I'll just tell you what time it is." If you're French Canadian you might be like, "You freaking idiot. Like... I'm glad that you're up here... I'm glad that you're up here you know spending your money even though we can't freaking stand you because you're from America, but..." Steph: It was a lot... there were a lot... yes, there were a lot of components. I love the fact that I think a little bit he was just like, it seemed like if he was like, "Dude, literally a clock right there," then it just would have felt a little less polite. So he didn't say that. And then we had to discover the clock on our own. And um, it was amazing and hilarious. So that was, again back to the time thing. Jeff: I have more soapbox about about that. Um, I'll... I'll do it... I'll do it briefly and try not to go on um, and make it annoying. But uh, when you... you treat your watch as your... as your timepiece... I'm sorry. When you treat your phone as your timepiece, and then you don't have your phone, you end up lost. And you can't conceive that there might be a giant clock on the wall. Although maybe you can conceive of it and you just because you're having a nice day with some beverages and with Julie you don't con... conceive of it. But anyway, this is why I'm always on Instagram, I'm always posting uh, these Sheffield watches. Because if you put on a watch that's just a watch on your wrist and it's not an Apple Watch like all of a sudden you've got the ability to tell time without necessarily getting hit by a bunch of distractions which an Apple Watch is gonna do to you, which pulling... pulling out your phone is gonna do to you. And I'm... I'm huge on this for my kids. I'm like, "Hey like... if you're looking at your phone to tell the time you're like, I don't know, half the time you get pulled in because you see a notification. And now you're looking at your phone more. And now you're more te..." Oh wait, I said I wasn't gonna keep going on and get on my soapbox but... Steph: No, but I hear what you're saying. And at first I was kind of like... you know, I have a thing about Apple Watches because they were like they're meant to be like they don't want to make you... to help people avoid pulling out their phone all the time. But they actually just make people look super rude because you look like you're literally just like, "Um, I don't have ti... like every single time something goes off you're like, 'Uh, is this over? Is it time...?'" You know what I mean? So um, but I hadn't thought about that cause you're right. Whenever you look at your phone, of course there's gonna be notifications and all that's gonna pull you in. And that's... it's a very good point. So yes to watches. Agreed. Jeff: Yep. And I'm gonna I'm gonna bring this all home and make it all Boaty. Ready? All right. Spa Nordique is... Spa Nordique is Boaty because in Iceland outdoor hot spring fed pools and indoor became about because the rate of death by drowning amongst Icelandic fishermen was so high because it's the freaking North Sea. And the last thing you want to do there and there aren't any lakes, right? But the last thing you want to do there is learn how to swim in the ocean. But so that meant the entire population of Iceland whose entire existence was supported by fishing... nobody knew how to swim! And it became a... a public safety, public health, community health like anti-drowning initiative to start... to create public outdoor hot springs... public outdoor hot tubs so that people could learn to swim. Uh, and they sprang up all around the country and it became like part of the culture that you go there to learn to swim but then you also go there to hang out with each other. And um, that's all so that people in Iceland can go fishing, if they go in the drink uh, survive... have a great chance of survival. Boaty. Right? Um, also the... the watch thing. If you have to pull your phone out to tell what time it is while you're out in a boat, you might drop your phone on the deck. You might drop your phone in the drink or off the dock. You also might get distracted by your phone and you're... when you're driving a boat or you're out there in a boat, you probably shouldn't be distracted because A, that means it's taking away from the enjoyment and B, because you might run into something. So... Boaty. Boom. Done. Okay. Steph: So... so learn to swim in a hot spring and buy a watch. Boom. Jeff: And have thermal experiences. Steph: Oh. Jeff: Um... Missy just texted me and called. Um... they just got hit from behind on 76. They're all okay. The cops are there now. Uh oh. Steph: Whoa. Jeff: Hold on a sec. Let me... let me communicate. Steph: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Jeff: Everybody's okay. They don't need me to call or come pick them up. All right. Good. Well how about that? Steph: Do we have to move on? Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Steph: I have... I have a th... I have a... one of my... I'll just tell you and you can always like edit this out later if it's boring. But one of the things that's funny about it is when you're at the spa you can tell which are the hot pools and which are the cold pools because there's nobody in the cold ones, right? Um, but there was this one that Julie and I found and they had... they tell you like the temperatures and um, it was empty and we were walking around and it is... I think they said it was like 69 degrees or something like that? But there's nobody in it and it feels cold but then we realized, wait, that's like the river temperature. That's like the temperature of the river, right? In the summer. And then we got in this cold-ish thing and then it was... and that but we got used to it really quickly and it was really delightful and lovely. So we think of it as like that's like the river temperature pool and we... that's the only cold-ish pool that I get in. But it's very nice. Jeff: That... that's awesome because if the river temperature hits 69 degrees we're probably bitching about it cause it's too warm. Steph: Exactly. Exactly right. Jeff: That's awesome. All right. All right we're gonna move on. Uh, next segment. Um, we're gonna play an interview which was uh, listener submitted. So Rob uh, shared this. Some friends of his recorded an interview with the heirs, the descendants of the founder of the Black Ball Ferry Fleet in Puget Sound, Seattle. So we're gonna play that and then uh, I did a bunch of research on all this that we'll talk about after the interview. So here it is. [Interview Segment] I am standing here with the heirs of the Black Ball Line. Yeah. A couple of them. Was that heir or errors? Errors. Probably errors. Doug and Chris McMahon are standing here with you. Doug and Chris McMahon. And our great grandfather was Charles Peabody who came out west in 1885 and started the Alaska Steamship Company and then the Puget Sound Navigation. They were flying the Black Ball flag, which his family owned on the East Coast from 1803 forward. The Black Ball flag's been flying... Nice. ...and uh, his son... I have one on my travel trailer and every time I go camping we post our big full-size flag. Just... it still flies around the region. Yes. She's... she's still flying. And flies in Portland too. So... So and then the state bought it... the ferries in the 50s. And turns out they stopped making money. Started running in the red. Yeah. So. Yeah. So can you give me a brief history of why it's a Black Ball and with a white circle and red in the middle? Well so that's from the Coho. Right. And so the Coho was the last Black Ball ship that's flying. And so they licensed the flag but they added the white circle. And why did they choose that? Well because it was part of the whole ferry system. Okay. And when the Coho started, the Coho started right after... But the original Black Ball flag, which was a red flag with a black ball only, no white circle, was also researched as um, like some kind of a maritime victory award for ships. You know when they when they won a battle or did something good like cannon-neering or something, you know grenade throwing, they would be awarded the flags and they would fly the flag. So it's one of them. I don't recall exactly which one. And the original Black Ball ships that sailed from Brooklyn to uh, England and mainland Europe and back, um, had a Black Ball flag that was a swallowtail flag. So it wasn't a rectangle, it was swallowtail and a giant black ball on the main sail. And they were the first company... Rad. Like pirates. It does look like the hurricane warning flags too. People often catch us about that which is typically a square black in the center of the red. But in some regions it's a round circle just like Puget Sound Navigation's Black Ball flag. Just a couple specific places. They were the first shipping company to leave on a scheduled date. So they were... in the mid 1800s a ship would leave when it was full. Ass in seat. We're leaving at this time. That's right. And the Black Ball said "We're leaving on this date, empty or full." So they changed the industry then. Yeah. So when we were kids we used to get to ride in the wheelhouse every once in a while. Oh yeah. Or if we were with our Grandpa downtown and you'd see all these, you know, basically old men at the time in the 60s, right? On the... on the waterfront. He'd walk up to half of them because they all knew who each were. You know, they worked in shipping or the shipyards together. Yeah. Did he know Iver Haglund? Yes. They lived near one another up in West... up in West Seattle at Alki. Yeah so he absolutely knew Iver Haglund. We also have a relative who was a bank robber. So you know, they... they ran... Keep clam. Keep clam. One of his brothers... One of his brothers was a bank robber. Spent his lifetime in prison. Was on Alcatraz. That's awesome. Twice. So you know... Captains of Industry and... not. Yeah. Pioneers. Pioneers. Please introduce yourself again. My name's Doug McMahon. I'm from Portland, Oregon. And I'm Chris McMahon, Doug's brother. And where do you live? Uh, Des Moines, Washington. Right up here just across the way. Originally from Portland though. We're both from Portland. So nice to meet you. Thank you so much. [End of Interview Segment] Steph: Yeah. But that is... that is... that is very cool. And I think like the... the boat itself is really cool too, right? I remember we talked about the boat once a while ago. Jeff: Yeah. Well there's the... there's the Kalakala and then there's the Coho. The Kalakala is like this really wild uh, streamlined early streamlining Art Deco looking um... I don't know why I say Art Deco I don't really know what that means. Uh, ferry. And then um, and that's that thing's like I think it's just sitting there... maybe it already got broken up. Uh, but it was derelict for a long time. And then the Coho is still operating, which we'll get to. I'm gonna talk this through in a little bit. All right so. Steph: Okay. Jeff: Puget Sound Ferries. So Puget Sound is surrounds Seattle. It's like between Seattle and Victoria British Columbia and there's island after island after island. It's probably my second favorite watery place that I've been to um, after the St. Lawrence River because there's just so much going on. Um, I like islands and inlets and... Steph: It is beautiful. Jeff: Yep. So uh, this presented a big challenge for getting around back in the day. Uh, because if you wanted to get out to one of these islands cause there's timber out there or other resources or because you wanted to live out there, um, yeah you had to take a boat. And the shortest distance between two points on land on the quote mainland was sometimes a boat, not or by water, not necessarily over land. So uh, there were ferries that that got established. And the... there's like three big eras of ferries um, in in the Puget Sound. The first is the "Mosquito Fleet" era which was like 1850s to the 1920s. And it's when people really nailed down and commercialized the... the ferry as transportation infrastructure and the waterways are now how people get around, right? Um, and it helped develop the region. So um, like before the 1880s or so uh, it was all about steamboats. And the... the first steamships that got there cause you had to go basically either come from Asia or go around uh, the tip of South America back in the day before the Panama Canal to get to this place. So the Hudson Bay Company sent the SS Beaver in the 1830s which showed how uh, steam power... Steph: Beaver... Jeff: Yeah yeah... Steph: [Laughs] Thank god for the Canadians. All right. Jeff: The Hudson's Bay Company sent the SS Beaver like around the horn uh, even better... Steph: [Laughs] Jeff: In the 1830s. So uh, all of a sudden like you've got a steamboat that's like cruising around Puget Sound and it works out. Um, and the... the Americans, I think the Canadian... I don't know a lot about the Canadian history of the West Coast but the American history of the West Coast uh, was like, you know okay... 1849, 49ers... uh, the West like opened up in a... the West Coast opened up in a big way because of the Gold Rush. Um, but then timber became a huge deal. Probably more money made in timber than in uh, gold at that point. But the first American steamboat was the SS Fairy. Okay? Begins scheduled service in the 1850s and it linked uh, Olympia and Seattle. And roads were hammered. It was just mud, you know, nothing was paved. Uh, you definitely wanted to be on a... on a steamer. Maybe a sidewheeler like, you know, old-timey sidewheelers on the... on the Mississippi. Um, but it was really the only way that mail and your goods and s... goods and people got from town to town on the Puget Sound. So that was like early steamboats pre-1880s. And then in the 1880s uh, it really started to take off. So as the area developed, the... the something happened called the Mos... the Swarm, right? So the swarm of the Mosquito Fleet. Hundreds of small um, independent privately owned steamships pl... basically started creating a dense network and they were all competing with each other. Cause like all you needed was a boat with a steam engine and you could get going. Um, and there were some some famous boats during this time. Fleet... Mosquito Fleet boats. And this was not like, you know, so-and-so owned the Mosquito Fleet, it was just like "Hey there's a swarm of boats out there we're gonna call them and they're all small so we're gonna call them the Mosquito Fleet." Uh, and this is where the names get names get more lame. The SS Flyer, the SS Bailey Gatzert. Steph: Okay. I like SS Fairy. Direct. Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and and then there's this huge opportunity and this dude named Charles Peabody who we heard about. We heard from his descendants uh, and we heard about the Black Ball uh, right? From his descendants just a minute ago. Charles Peabody. He shows up with this... this family history of the uh, Transatlantic Fleet where they innovated and um... this is something you're pretty psyched about which is like "Oh okay we're gonna have scheduled service instead of just waiting until we've got a full load and then we'll go. We're gonna leave at noon." Steph: Mm-hm. Yeah. Well I just think it's interesting like I... I remember we talked about this pr... I guess you said maybe with Rob a while ago. I find it fascinating the idea that you would get on a boat and then just wait for enough people to get on the boat to have to leave. That's... I could see how that would be disruptive to your day. Jeff: Yeah. Steph: Maybe hopefully those peop... they didn't have watches. But um, but they uh... but then yeah I guess I would appreciate the fact that you had some general idea of when it might leave. But I can see how the risk would be uh, you had to travel empty some so maybe you just had to... more reliable. It was a leap of faith, right? They were like, "If we make it more reliable then people will use it more." Right? Jeff: Yeah. And scheduled service for trains was probably a thing but, you know, when you've got this big boat you definitely don't want to... you don't want to go empty. And so I can see the commercial interest in like a full boat being there but also like then you're leaving out a lot of people who were like "I don't want to sit around and wait for this." Um, anyway. I don't know. Charles Peabody. Uh, so he... he's a descendant of the people that started the Black Ball Fleet way back in the early early 1800s. He shows up out there and starts buying up the swarm. Um, he creates the Puget Sound Navigation Company, PSNC, in 1898. And then just starts buying up competing Mosquito Fleet companies. Like he bought up the White Collar Line. Steph: Mmm. Jeff: Don't know why it's called White Collar Line. Um, going to guess it was fancy. Uh, and eventually becomes the... the biggest operator. Steph: You said fancy? Jeff: Fancy. Steph: Okay. Jeff: And then what Peabody did, based... based on this research is he figured out that the automobile was gonna be a threat, okay? To... to the ferry fleet because now you've got cars. People buy cars, they want the roads to get better so that they can drive their cars. The roads do get better so more people get cars to drive on those roads. So then he figures out that this is a threat and starts converting his ferries to carry cars. And the rest of the Mosquito Fleet, many of whom he'd bought up in the first place, but the rest of the Mosquito Fleet that hadn't been acquired by the Puget Sound Navigation Company... they're not... they're not as like strategic as he is. They don't start converting their boats to carry cars... he does. So they die off. No more. Right? So now he's got a monopoly. And uh, he officially at... at this point adopts the Black Ball Line as its name. Um, and the flag that we heard about, the red and black ball uh, flag in the in the late 20s. Um, coincidentally also around the time of Prohibition and tons and tons of smuggling of da booze from Canada into the US. I am not... I'm not accusing the Black Ball Line of being involved in smuggling um, but it was going on. And uh, there was succession also in the family. Alexander takes over um, from his dad uh, and uh, they really nail down... And then ah this is where... so then they launch the Kalakala. K-A-L-A-K-A-L-A. Kalakala in 1935. This is the streamlined Art Deco ferry that uh, that we we talked about last time and our friends Rob and Jen and Byron uh, actually went out and checked out um, while it was still floating. And it's just like really cool. Looks like um, you know uh, like early streamlined locomotives and trains. That kind of thing with like really neat windows and and that sort of thing. Um, but that becomes the international symbol of the fleet. Everybody's super psyched about it. Um, so that was like 20s, 30s. And then World War II hits. And um, labor organizing really took off around World War II. Uh, and the ferry workers started unionizing and uh, probably pushing back on on pay and working conditions and hours and stuff. And this monopoly uh, had, you know... being a monopoly is great unless there's a strike. And then your... you know your workers strike and your boats aren't running and people are like "Well [bleep], I gotta get around." So now maybe they figure out that they don't have to take the ferry. Take their car on the ferry, take their truck on the ferry and they um... they go elsewhere and that starts to... to put pressure on the ferry. But also like if you've got to raise wages, um, now your... your margins are lower. Blah blah blah. So um, ultimately uh, the... you know the... there was a... a wartime um, freeze in wages and operations but the... the unions um, really pushed for better wages which put a bunch of strain on the... on the company. And the... the only way that... that the Peabodys could make this all work was uh, with a big fare increase. So they um... pushed for a 30% fare increase to cover their costs. Um, and the... they had... it had gotten to the point where they were being regulated at this point because it was, you know, privately operated transportation infrastructure that everybody relied on. Um, so they were regulated and the state said "Nope." So like, you know, a public utility commission has to negotiate rate increases with their state regulator. So same thing happened here. Um, and Peabody says "Give us 30% more." State says "Nope." And Peabody says "All right, F you." They shut it all down. They shut it all down. And that stranded uh, like all the commuters. And people were super pissed at them for shutting it down. Um, which then turned it into a political moment. And uh, the... you know people, businesses said "Take over this... this as an essential utility." And that's when uh, Washington State purchased all this stuff from... all the ferries and the whole system from the uh, the Peabodys. From the Black Ball Line. And that created the Washington State Ferry System. And as you heard in the... in the um, interview, uh, was running... ended up running at a loss. I don't know if it still does, it may as... as a lot of public transit infrastructure does. Um, but the state bought out the Black Ball Line in... in 51. And um, they bought it out for 4.9 million dollars which in like "today dollars" is still not even that much I don't think for, you know, 16 ships, 20 terminals uh, which is what it was at the time. Um, but anyway they buy it out and start operating on... in June of 51. And uh, the state said "Hey we're just gonna do this until we build all the bridges everywhere." Uh, which didn't really happen. Um, and the Washington State Ferry uh, system just change... they basically uh, did away with the Black Ball livery. Which is like the Boaty way of saying how you paint [bleep]. Um, what colors. Um, so they went from orange to green. Uh, but the... the company, Captain Peabody, Alexander, um, and his family retained the route... the international route between... between Seattle and Victoria. And that is the MV Coho which still runs uh, and it's still the Black Ball Ferry Line. And it um... basically gives you a through line from like the original Transatlantic Fleet that did scheduled service for the first time ever um, and, you know... you're on board or not we're leaving at noon. Through line from like the early early 1800s all the way through to today. The Black Ball line has been continuously running or the Black Ball uh... the... Black Ball family or I'm sorry the Black Ball line has been continuously running cause the Coho is still going. Was launched in 59 but it uh... it's still the um... it's still a major private auto ferry line in the region. And international. So goes back and forth to Canada. Which is what you did when you went to the Hot Springs as well. Steph: Um, yeah. I love that. I love that it's still running. I didn't realize that. Jeff: Yeah. The Coho. I... I was out there for work years ago and I thought about taking um, taking the ferry up to Victoria. There's a high speed... and I don't think it's the Coho. There's a high speed ferry that runs also. Um, it may even go further than Victoria but uh, cause I was like "Oh man it'd be pretty cool to do a day trip to just like take the ferry from Seattle up through the Sound to, you know, wherever. Like get off get a... get some poutine and then come back." Although it's the West Coast I don't know if poutine... I don't know if poutine made it out there or maybe they call it something else. I love ferries. Steph: I do too. And I... I've actually been to that part of the world only one time, but I was... I went to a wedding on Vashon Island. And then um, so yeah I was to... completely taken with how watery and boaty it was and we totally took a ferry there and it was amazing and I loved it. And yes, I agree. Ferries are fun and um, that's some... that's some very cool history. I like it. Jeff: Yeah. Well we're gonna... we're gonna wrap up now. Um, because uh... I just got a call and a text from my wife and she... Steph: Yeah. Jeff: She and Mary Jane... so Missy and Mary Jane got rear-ended. I think Toby too. Got rear-ended on the highway. And uh, they don't need a ride but just in case they do I want to wrap it up. Everybody's okay. Nobody got hurt. Steph: Yeah. Sounds good. Good. Good. Jeff: Yeah. Um, but couple things. One, I am currently wearing a Boaty Show hat. And uh, the hot admin, the lovely Melissa, set up a freaking e-commerce website so that you listeners if you would like can buy a Boaty Show hat and we will ship it to you. We don't really make any money on this. It's... it's all uh, basically break-even. Um, but that can be found at thebodyshow.com/merch. M-E-R-C-H. Merch. Thebodyshow.com/merch. They're... I'm very excited because I've got a big head and we have an extra large hat. Which means that if you usually put like the... the little snappy back thing on like the last two nubbins, the snap back on the last two nubbins... on the XL Boaty Show hat you get... you get to at least on my head you get five nubbins. You can snap five hat nubbins. And it... and it doesn't look like you're cramming a tiny hat on top of your big head. So that's exciting. Uh, there's... there's Heather Grey, Dark Grey, and Navy Blue. And uh, would love it if you guys ordered some um, because uh... it's... it's a cool hat. It's got the boat tractor on it. Steph: Mm-hm. It's the holiday season. Time to go buy some merch for your friends and families. Everybody needs a Boaty Show hat. Jeff: Yeah. Also these were made by Bolt Printing who who we talked uh, about on the show once upon a time. Uh, they're really cool people and... Steph: You love them. Jeff: I do. I do. And they made a video of the hats getting made that I'll I'll try and repost. Um, and the other thing is that my book is out. So is the audiobook. So You Teach The Machines: AI on Your Terms is available on everywhere you get your audiobooks. Uh, Audible, Amazon, Apple, and then like 35 others. So if you don't mind listening to my voice, uh, I read the book and people are finding it really helpful. And uh, you can support the show and us doing this silly stuff by buying hats and checking out the book. We are gonna wrap it up. Steph: And next time we get to do Photo of the Week. Jeff: Oh yes! Yes. We're bringing back Photo of the Week next time. Um, there have been a bunch of submissions while we've been on our hiatus and uh, we can't wait. So like next week will probably mostly be Photo of the Week discussions. Jeff & Steph: [Singing together] Yo ho ho, that's it for the Boaty Show. Pack the cooler, grab the lines, let's go go go. Yo ho ho... Jeff: That's it for the Boaty Show. Boom we are out. Say bye-bye Stephanie. Steph: Bye-bye Stephanie.  

Its that best time of year, Awards Season! We're announcing the categories for the only awards that count in Rip City, the prestigious WHAT Awards. Find out what Blazer players (and former players) have to do to get an award this season, the tweaks we've made, and old favorites that have returned. All this plus we answered Takers' questions and got to talk about tattoos, pizza, Rob Williams' ally oops, Kris Murray's steady presence, Orcas gathering in Puget Sound, Amazon Bond Girls and so much more!2:00 Most Valuable Pet (MVP)6:30 Most Valuable Blazer (MVB)7:15 Most Improved Blazer (MIB)8:00 Celebrator Man of the Year (CMotY)13:00 As yet non-specific fashion award18:00 Blazer Cutie Award (and potentially a Blazer Legend award)Taker questions25:00 Tattoo for the season29:00 Thanksgiving tables35:30 Blowout losses, Kris Murray and missing Matisse Thybulle46:00 8 pm games and Scoot's celebrations50:30 Ranch Pizza ideas57:00 Dunks dunks dunks!(and a side trip on Coaches Challenges)1:12:00 We hate to admit it but the Houston Rockets are fun 1:19:00 Takes The Orcas Are Gathering in Puget Sound. Orcas vs Yachts1:22:00 Amazon Bond GirlsThanks to our friends who sent in questions :@hecubus01.bsky.social‬, @hecubus01.bsky.social‬, @jamesgameboy.bsky.social‬, @octdesertlover.bsky.social‬, @athoughtbytim.bsky.social‬Cutest intro/outro music ever by @shoozumoops.bsky.social

The Seattle Mayor race is looking much more decisive, an orca superpod came to Puget Sound, and many Washingtonians are still struggling from the government shutdown. It’s our daily roundup of top stories from the KUOW newsroom, with host Paige Browning. We can only make Seattle Now because listeners support us. Tap here to make a gift and keep Seattle Now in your feed. Got questions about local news or story ideas to share? We want to hear from you! Email us at seattlenow@kuow.org, leave us a voicemail at (206) 616-6746 or leave us feedback online.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week we delve into all the ways memoir can be transformative. In framing her own memoir as an act of service, Julie Lythcott-Haims helps us to contextualize what your memoir is for, who it's for, and whether you're ready to write it for others, or if it needs to stay with just you, at least for a while. This is a powerful and impassioned conversation about memoir, why we write, and what we write for. Julie also shares about how prescient her memoir, Real American, was—as she was writing it in 2016 with the rise of Trumpism, and what it meant to be part of a chorus of voices writing about experiences of race and racial identity in America. Julie Lythcott-Haims is a writer, speaker, teacher, mentor, and activist. The New York Times bestselling author of How to Raise an Adult, which inspired a widely viewed TED Talk. Her award-winning memoir, Real American, explores her experience as a Black and biracial person in white spaces. Her third book is Your Turn: How to Be an Adult. Julie earned a B.A. from Stanford, a J.D. from Harvard Law, and an M.F.A. in Writing from California College of the Arts. She also holds an Honorary Doctor of Letters from the University of Puget Sound. She lives in Palo Alto, where she serves on the City Council, advocating for housing, equity, climate, and youth mental health. Julie and her lifelong partner Dan are parents to two twentysomethings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week we delve into all the ways memoir can be transformative. In framing her own memoir as an act of service, Julie Lythcott-Haims helps us to contextualize what your memoir is for, who it's for, and whether you're ready to write it for others, or if it needs to stay with just you, at least for a while. This is a powerful and impassioned conversation about memoir, why we write, and what we write for. Julie also shares about how prescient her memoir, Real American, was—as she was writing it in 2016 with the rise of Trumpism, and what it meant to be part of a chorus of voices writing about experiences of race and racial identity in America. Julie Lythcott-Haims is a writer, speaker, teacher, mentor, and activist. The New York Times bestselling author of How to Raise an Adult, which inspired a widely viewed TED Talk. Her award-winning memoir, Real American, explores her experience as a Black and biracial person in white spaces. Her third book is Your Turn: How to Be an Adult. Julie earned a B.A. from Stanford, a J.D. from Harvard Law, and an M.F.A. in Writing from California College of the Arts. She also holds an Honorary Doctor of Letters from the University of Puget Sound. She lives in Palo Alto, where she serves on the City Council, advocating for housing, equity, climate, and youth mental health. Julie and her lifelong partner Dan are parents to two twentysomethings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Democrats knew they were funding healthcare for illegal immigrants — and lied about it. The federal government says Washington State can’t force foster parents to accept their children's gender identity. Guest: National political director for the Republican Jewish Coalition Sam Markstein reacts to the horrifying prospect of an antisemite like Zohran Mamdani becoming mayor of New York. // Big Local: A look at some of the key local races around the Puget Sound region tonight. // You Pick the Topic: A University of Chicago professor that was previously arrested at an anti-ICE protest posted vile comments about Dick Cheney moments after his death was announced today.

In March 2020, at the start of the pandemic, the mysterious death of a mother of two is ruled a suicide. But her loved ones believe there's more to her death than meets the eye. And as soon as we looked into her case, the cracks in the official ruling started to show. If you have any information about Gwen Hasselquist or her death or movements the night of March 20th, 2020, please email tips@audiochuck.com.If you or a loved one is struggling with thoughts of suicide or self-harm, you can call or text the Crisis and Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 or visit 988lifeline.org. You can learn more about The Good segment and even submit a story of your own by visiting The Good page on our website! Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit:  https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/mysterious-death-of-gwen-hasselquist/Did you know you can listen to this episode ad-free? Join the Fan Club! Visit crimejunkie.app/library/ to view the current membership options and policies.Don't miss out on all things Crime Junkie!Instagram: @crimejunkiepodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @CrimeJunkiePod | @audiochuckTikTok: @crimejunkiepodcastFacebook: /CrimeJunkiePodcast | /audiochuckllcCrime Junkie is hosted by Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat. Instagram: @ashleyflowers | @britprawatTwitter: @Ash_Flowers | @britprawatTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at 317-733-7485 to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Keith sits down with Terry Kerr and Matthew Vanhorn, the leaders of America's oldest turnkey real estate provider, Mid South Home Buyers, to unpack the practical systems that keep thousands of rental units profitable and tenants happy. With national renter mobility dropping, longer stays are now the norm. Average resident stay is 4 years—double the industry average, thanks to proactive maintenance and relationship-driven management. Instead of fighting for eyeballs on Zillow, they target HR departments at hospitals, universities, and major employers, tapping into pre-screened, income-verified tenants with stable paychecks and predictable work schedules. Invest where returns still make sense. Visit midsouthhomebuyers.com to book your investor tour and get $500 off your first property. Resources: Switch to listening to the podcast on the Apple Podcasts or Spotify app, as the dedicated GRE mobile app will be discontinued at the end of the month. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/576 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, learn about how to cut your rental property vacancies and keep tenants twice as long. Why Memphis, Tennessee stays the cash flow King, and exactly where to find really low cost, quality properties today. That make sense from day one today on, get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  0:26   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There is real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Corey Coates  1:39   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:49   Welcome to GRE from New York's Long Island Sound to Washington's Puget Sound and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. There's an economic trend that you need to be aware of. We're going to talk about how you can play it in this era, sources ranging from Redfin to Housing Wire and others, you know they're all in agreement that the transiency rate, that mobility rate for Americans, is down. And what that means is, when people find a place to live, whether they're a property owner or a renter, they are staying put longer. They put this big, heavy anchor down, and that kind of goes along with employment. Although the unemployment rate is low right now, there aren't very many people moving jobs or changing jobs. So the rate of hiring is low, that's bad, but the rate of employer firings is low, that's good. So on balance, Americans are keeping their job if they've already got one, and they're keeping their home if they've already got one. But because movement has slowed, as we are in this slower housing market, I'll drastically oversimplify here. All right, a few years ago, you might have had a tenant stay for two years, and then there would be a one month vacancy between tenancies today, double both of those. You're more likely to see a four year stay, but two months between vacancies. So your occupancy rate, therefore, is the same in both scenarios, but there's less movement. Again, oversimplifying, but you can see the effect a longer vacancy period is bad, a longer tenant retention period is good, all right. Well, how do you increase your tenant's length of stay and decrease that vacancy in order to be more profitable as an investor and yet give your tenant a satisfactory experience too well. One thing that you can do is list your vacant unit with an employer. Yeah, advertise it through a local stable company. You're going to end up with higher quality tenants. See, there's already this built in screening that was done for you. The employer basically did that for you. So when you work directly with especially hospitals, universities, corporate campuses or military bases, what you're doing is you're fishing from a pond of already vetted, income verified and drug screened candidates. See these tenants what they had to do. They already had to pass HR background checks and employment verification in order to get their job. So for you, that saves you both risk and time compared to the you know, the Craigslist style roll the dice crowd. Now, Of course, we cannot discriminate against certain groups of people, and we'll get into that shortly. But of course, steady employment equals steady rent tenants sourced through employers. They usually have reliable paychecks, often through direct deposit. They've got predictable work schedules, and there's going to be less income volatility. So that means that you'll have fewer late payments and lower eviction risk. And some landlords, you know what they do, they even structure rent payments through payroll deduction. I mean that essentially automates the rent collection. Yes, you can do that. Employees who move for a job, they often sign longer leases, because relocating again would be a hassle. So many will stay in your unit as long as they stay employed. That could be two years or five years, especially in the health care, education and tech sector. So less turnover means fewer make ready costs for you, fewer showings and just more ease and peace of mind. So advertising through employers that is a really low competition marketing channel as well. You know, most landlords, they blast their listings on Zillow apartments.com or maybe Facebook marketplace. Well over there, your post is just one out of hundreds, instead of all that competition, what you're doing is you're finding quiet, uncrowded channels when you utilize these employer housing boards and their HR relocation departments, and this way you can even get inside that company's internal newsletters so you're reaching renters before they can even start scrolling listings over on Zillow and see employers love this too. It's not like the employer is having to do a favor for you. They love it, because when they can help new hires or transferees find housing, it's better for that company. It reduces the employee's stress. It improves the retention at that company. If they have an employer that's satisfied and has a good place to stay, and it really boosts that company's recruiting success. So you're helping yourself, you're helping that company, and you're helping their new employee, which is your tenant. So this makes HR departments. They are surprisingly receptive to you. They might even circulate your listing internally or add you to their housing resource list. So this is a perfect fit for these hands off turnkey investors. So if you're doing that or you're managing properties remotely, this employer outreach, it really gives you a nice extra layer of reliability. And as far as the people that will be your tenants, think about nurses, engineers. IT staff, sometimes teachers, sometimes military based personnel. I mean, they are all ideal long term tenants. Now the way that you can actually do this and put it into practice is identify major employers that are near your property, that could be hospital systems, that could be universities or manufacturing plants, then contact their HR or the relocation department, and after that, it's not hard just provide them with a concise PDF or a one page flyer with your property photos and the monthly rent amount. And one thing you can do, and you should in this case, is put the distance or the time it takes to travel to the employer from your rental unit, and then add your contact info. That is exactly how you do it. You can offer a small incentive, like $50 off the first month for employees. So this is a slick way to advertise your vacancy with employers and make you more profitable over time.    Keith Weinhold  7:02   Now today, we're going to talk to who is actually America's oldest turnkey real estate company. As far as we know, they're based in Memphis, Tennessee, and we'll learn how they advertise a vacant unit and screen prospective tenants and place them and maintain their units over time. They are called mid south homebuyers. You've heard them on the show before, and because of their success, both investors and other real estate companies, they actually listen in intently to what these people have to say. I mean, others study them and learn from them. These are the people other companies study, and you're still going to hear from their principal and their sales lead about reducing your vacancy time and increasing your tenant duration. And, you know, it's just kind of funny how often Memphis, Tennessee, which is where they're based, how often this comes up in cash flowing real estate conversations that you have out there over time? I mean. And Memphis consistently has the best cash flow, maybe, amongst any substantial Metro in the nation. We'll just say among metros that are big enough to have a major pro sports team. I mean, Memphis does have the NBA Grizzlies. There aren't many other cities that can even compete with Memphis as the cashflow King, although there are some that you can work into the conversation. Indianapolis, Cleveland and Oklahoma City are some of those places. Now, before we're done, you'll also learn about how, even following this generation's big inflationary wave, how purchase prices are still as affordable as they are in both Memphis and Little Rock. I mean, this is going to make you ask out loud today, how could they still be so low? We'll also talk about conventional, enduring property management techniques today, now next month here on the show, we're going to talk about how you can use AI to self manage your properties, and that show next month is going to be with an expert straight from Silicon Valley. We're going to talk to the CEO of hemlane then and their AI driven property management software. She used to work for Apple, and she's got a Harvard Business School degree. That is next month today. It's about tried and proven techniques to make you more profitable as an investor   Keith Weinhold  11:24   I'd like to welcome in longtime friends of the show, with the emphasis on long time since they were first here with us, nearly 11 years ago, They are those ever steady property providers based in Memphis, mid south homebuyers. They also serve Little Rock, Arkansas. I have physically walked their offices and properties in person myself. They are, in fact, America's oldest turnkey real estate provider. And it's the return of their founder and principal, Terry Kerr and a second guest who you'll meet shortly, Terry, welcome back on of the show.   Terry Kerr  12:04   Thanks so much, Keith, so glad to be back.   Keith Weinhold  12:07   Congrats on your success. Your model and operation is prominent and exemplary nationally. You've now grown to 110 w2 employees there, and your 13 plus year property management guru who's been leading that entire division is now your sales director. It's terrific to introduce him to the world today. Matthew Van Horn,   Matthew Vanhorn  12:31   Keith, so great to be on here. Long time listener of the show. Really great to meet you.    Keith Weinhold  12:36   Yeah. Appreciate it now you'll soon be listening to yourself on the show. GRE, listeners are familiar with the turnkey real estate model. What you do is buy a distressed property, you rehab it, and then you place a tenant in the property, and you hold on to that for investors across the nation for the production of long term cash flow. Well, let's get an update between Memphis and Little Rock. How many properties do you hold under management for investors now and then? What percent are single family rentals versus other types?   Terry Kerr  13:07   Right now, we're about 57 maybe a little closer to 5800 and the vast majority of them are single family houses. I'm going to say probably. What 5% are duplexes? Matthew, something like that. Yeah, something like that. So no other multis, just single family, most of them rehabs. And of course, now we're doing a new construction direct to rental as well.   Keith Weinhold  13:29   Interestingly, with 58 to 5900 rentals, I mean, you can easily sort of be your own surveying outfit in an informal way, in finding out what's happening with the market, what all the dynamics are. So why don't we start at the beginning, when you're marketing and advertising and looking to place a tenant, tell us about just what you look for, just what you need to avoid. I mean checking for the tenant. That typically involves an employment check, a credit check, a rental history. Sometimes something might appear like a red flag, say, a 590 credit score. Would you always accept tenants in that condition? Because there are times when there are extenuating circumstances when a tenant with a 590 credit score actually might be a good placement. So tell us more about that screening.   Terry Kerr  14:17   As you know, it is renters that drive our returns as investors, and so selecting the right renter is where the money is made in this business, for sure, we are doing as much screening as we can for our renters. There's a lot that goes into that. We actually have a whole processing department. You know some people here who spend their whole day working in the processing division. And what you really got to watch out for, as far as red flags, is just fraud. There are so many ways you can use machines to defraud, and we have people who are able to detect and weed out the bad actors there, but we know what works really well. We have, for instance, in. Arkansas, the main employer of our residents is Baptist Health Medical Center, and we love our healthcare workers there. So that's a place that, you know, starting from the marketing side, we're going to dial up our marketing in those places we're going to go to the HR department, or we're often in the HR department of Baptist Health Medical Center, pushing and asking for referrals from them, you know. And same with just referrals in general, good tenants tend to refer other good tenants. We're of course, looking for strong income that we can verify. And more than anything, we're looking for strong, credible current rental history, so someone who's paying the rent today somewhere to a verified landlord, not their sister, you know, but a very verified landlord. That's the big thing, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  15:50   Tell us more about that. That's great that you're being proactive and getting right in there with a stable, steady employer. That is where our rent comes from. After all, are there any other red flags, maybe things that people would not think about identifying as a red flag when it comes to that employment, in that credit, in that rental history   Matthew Vanhorn  16:11   one reason I bring up the localized marketing that some people may not think about is that renters who move from Out of state often will land in a place and then stay there for one year, which is fine, but then they often don't renew their lease and they'll move somewhere else. Now, of course, what we have to do above all is we have to be legal, you know, so we can't discriminate against someone from coming from out of town, but what we can do is dial up our localized marketing so that we're getting people who are in the neighborhood, who love the neighborhood already where they are, and so that contributes to longer residence days, and it's just little things like that. Once again, you're looking for employment that you can verify, so that you know that you're getting a quality renter.   Terry Kerr  16:59   I'll also say that one of the ways that we try to attract the most potential residents we can is by having a free application. So typically, a property management company is going to charge, you know, 50 to 75 bucks per applicant. And we're very fortunate that we've get a terrific deal from Equifax, because we're also lenders, we do some lending to our investors, which gives us a really good deal on paying for credit checks. And so we waive those fees for our residents. And so a lot more folks are going to apply with us, because it doesn't cost them anything to apply. And of course, the more people that apply, you've got a much better shot at a filling the property quicker, but also finding a much better resident.   Keith Weinhold  17:44   well this is a great part of building the connection. One of the first interactions they have with you is realizing that you don't have any application fee. And AI can be great for marketing and for doing things like writing listing descriptions, but you build that human connection there. For example, you do in person showings. You invite prospective tenants in current tenants into your physical office, kind of replacing society's trust crisis with humanity.   Matthew Vanhorn  18:14   Yes, that's right, Keith. In the last 12 months, we've spent more money than ever on technology, so we are leaning heavily into creating the systems and processes that allow us to get to our service quickly. And at the same time, we've invested more into staffing up in the past 12 months, into inviting people into our office, you know, and we can still do everything remotely. We can do it virtually for folks who want that, we found that a lot of residents love to look us in the face, and they like to come down to our office, and they like to sit across from Karen and across from Gabby, and they just love the personalized experience that we give them. It's hard to quantify it, Keith, but I just really believe that it drives longevity, right?   Keith Weinhold  19:04   Having a face behind that rental because your properties are freshly rehabbed, or, in some cases, they're new builds, so hopefully you won't have too many tenant service calls once they do become a resident, and you don't need to interact with them all the time, though you're there for them, but once you have chosen a tenant, and that tenant is placed, you know somebody has to be the adult in the lease, and we sincerely hope that the tenant is one of them. So with regard to that, how do you help ensure that tenants keep making on time payments, and you can keep tenants and not get ones that break the lease. So can you speak to us about that, how you can help identify that in the screening and then that ongoing relationship?   Matthew Vanhorn  19:47    I will say that perfect vetting does not necessarily lead to perfect collections, because it turns out that every one of our residents, they are humans, and as humans, we run into things you. Know, divorce can happen. Relationship breakups can happen, job losses happen. Just very human things happen. And so we like to stay in touch with our residents as often as possible, and very much encourage an open line of communication. We very much believe in compassion based collections here at Mid South. And so when residents fall upon hard times, we are truly there for them. Memphis actually has more nonprofits per capita than any place in America then. So when residents do fall on hard times, you know, and it happens, we're actually able to reach out. We have connections with several agencies that can help with rental assistance for renters who need it, we found that by pouring into our staffing with the resident support and solutions department that we've had a lot of success in collecting just by keeping that relationship intact when the pandemic hit. For instance, and I know that's been a few years from now, and maybe we all want to forget it, our collections rate actually went up during that time, and I attribute that largely to the fact that, number one, we had a relationship in place with our renters. We staffed up, and matter of fact, we had a full time person just working to get rent assistance for those renters who kind of had been disenfranchised by the pandemic   Keith Weinhold  21:26   during pandemic times or post pandemic times whenever it is us as investors, we're always interested in reducing that vacancy time. We seem to be in a period, at least nationally, where when people get a hold of a place, they want to keep it and hold on to it. In a lot of markets, the duration of a tenancy has been increasing. So despite what era that we're in, can you talk to us about some of the best practices for how you reduce the vacancy time? Because we all know vacancy and turnover is our biggest expense over time. As investors,    Terry Kerr  21:58   I like to say, you know, at the heart of what we do is making sure that when a hard working, single mother comes home at the end of the day, she can give her child a hot bath. And that's not possible if the water heaters out. And that's just one example, but our main job is to give a good quality of life to the residents that we are caring for, and if we can do that, and if we can treat them with respect when they do fall on hard times, like Matthew said, they're going to want to renew the lease. So we have got a almost twice the average length of stay as the industry average, which is we've got about a four year average resident stay. And when folks move out of a mid south house, it's not because they can find a better value they're going to get. They're already in the nicest house on the street. And if something breaks, we're out there lickety split to fix it. When folks move out of a mid south house. It's either because they're downsizing. Kids are moving out, or they're going up because they're having their family increases and they've got to move up, or maybe something happens to them, like Matthew mentioned, you know, death, divorce, disability, these things happen, right? But no one's moving out because they can find a better value or because they're not getting the service or respect that they deserve.    Keith Weinhold  23:25   That says a lot. Being managers of 5800 to 5900 properties, which gives you this sort of canvassing or de facto surveying ability that you have. What are we seeing for the direction of rents? We'll get into rents and prices later, because nationally, rents are just holding steady. They're really not rising very much. What do you see there?   Matthew Vanhorn  23:49   Yes, we saw them fairly stable. Over the course of 2024 I have started to see an uptick here in the past few months, I will say, which is encouraging for investors, for sure, each month, I'm looking at all of the renewal rates personally, to kind of look at that, engage the market. And like you said, it really is helpful. I mean, yes, we have all the tools, Zillow, rentometer, all these things, but there's nothing like just our own data of seeing, hey, what's the house across the street renting for? You know, how long did it take for that to rent and incorporating that into our data. And right now, our houses are moving at a faster pace on the leasing tip, which rent increases tend to follow that    Keith Weinhold  24:30   when it comes to optimizing rents, a lot of that coming back to reducing vacancy time. There are a number of strategies that one can employ now it's not with you guys, but I have a single family rental home in another market, and one promotion that that manager is running and encouraged me to participate in is a 50 inch flat screen TV having that and giving it away to the tenant. Somehow, that only costs $250 so I decided to do that. At for a vacancy that I have there in that market. Now, some investors might say, you know, why am I buying TVs for a tenant? I'm already providing them with a place. If the rent is 1500 bucks, a $250 TV only costs five days of vacancy, and that helps me reduce that vacancy period. Might even make a tenant want to stay longer, so sometimes you got to be thinking about how your tenant thinks, and you can come up with inventive ways to reduce vacancy. Do you have anything like that, any small concession that you've offered or have needed to offer in either market?   Terry Kerr  25:33   Well, we haven't done anything like that, Keith, but what we do like to do, and Matthew mentioned this earlier, is as great tenants tend to refer other great residents, and so we have a referral bonus that we pay out to our residents that refer other folks to us, and that does not come out of the pocket of our investors, that comes out of our pocket, because it's our job to make sure that We rent these properties as quick as we can to qualified residents.   Keith Weinhold  26:04   One thing that I've liked about Memphis, which few markets have, is that it's embedded within renter culture in Memphis, since it is such a renter city, that renters travel with their appliances, like the refrigerator, in their stove, in their dishwasher, which always seems crazy to me, so you're not providing those appliances. It seems like that fact alone might help with resident retention in Memphis. They're just less likely to move when they have more stuff to move.   Matthew Vanhorn  26:35   Yeah, it's really true. Yeah. And the longer people stay, the longer they tend to stay as funny as that sounds. And yeah, that's something that we found even in our new construction homes where we do provide the appliances we've been finding in many instances, still the residents are coming with their own appliances. And so we're storing our appliance, our brand new appliances, in our warehouse.   Keith Weinhold  26:58   Wow, yes, that's just something that you don't see in other places. And when it comes to retention, we're interested in maintaining the property like you talked about being proactive with are there some other things you do to help ensure that the maintenance expenses stay lower throughout the lifetime of that investor ownership? How do you approach that?   Terry Kerr  27:16   It really starts with doing a full blown rehab, right? So every once in a while, you know, we'll have houses that, you know, have some age on the components. But when we do a rehab, everything is brand spanking new, like a new roof, gut, the kitchen, got the bathroom, you know, all new electrical, all new plumbing, all new HVAC, a new water heater the whole nine yards. So it starts there, and then when a property turns over, we go into the property, and we are looking for safe and clean, right? So we want to make sure to keep the water out. We want to make sure that everything is safe and the property is tip top and super clean. Fortunately, the folks that are maintaining the houses for our investors. The technicians are the same technicians that did the renovations on the property, right? And it's the same materials. Yeah, it's like, we have an assembly line and a junky house jumps on the assembly line, and we rip everything off, and all the same materials jump back on the house. So we're able to keep costs low because of that, and also because the labor that we end up having to pay the technicians typically is a lot less than normal, because they're used to working on the same water heater, the same HVAC system, you know, the same furnace, the same dishwasher. So our volume model kind of helps with that.   Keith Weinhold  28:39   Oh, if you were listening closely, yes, what a huge efficiency that can be. You fellas, have any last thoughts about efficient property management, since that's what you've led for more than 13 years, Matthew,   Matthew Vanhorn  28:51   I resonate with what you said about how many investors overlook vacancy costs when properties turn over. And so I think it's just getting your rents right on the money, maybe just a little below, can actually drive returns, as opposed to maybe trying to get an extra 25 bucks more, which takes you three weeks longer to rent. You actually did not come out ahead in that, in that scenario, Keith   Keith Weinhold  29:14   today, with inflation, a $25 difference, I mean, we're down to what 12 hours of vacancy is, really how we're talking about there Property Management turning a passive income into an active lifestyle since forever. That's what they do. Property managers are the people that have never met a maintenance issue that waited until business hours. So that's why I'm grateful that my managers do what they do for me. That's what we're talking about today. More when we come back with Terry Kerr and Matthew Van Horn of mid south homebuyers, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  29:45   if you're scrolling for quality real estate and finance info today, yeah, it can be a mess. You hit paywalls, pop ups, push alerts, Cookie banners. It's like the internet is playing defense against you. Not so fun. That's why. It matters to get clean, free content that actually adds no hype value to your life. This is the golden age of quality email newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor. It's direct, and it gets to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter takes less than three minutes to read, and it leaves you feeling sharp and in the know about real estate investing, this is paradigm shifting material, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video course, completely free as well. It's called The Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be simpler to get visit gre letter.com while it's fresh in your head, take a moment to do it now at gre letter.com Visit gre letter.com    Keith Weinhold  30:56   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Tom Wheelwright  31:31   this is Rich Dad Advisor Tom wheelwright. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  31:37   welcome back to get rich education. You've got the pleasure of listening to the voices of America's oldest turnkey real estate provider mid south homebuyers based in Memphis, Tennessee, and some years ago, they branched out to Little Rock, Arkansas as well, just about a two hour road trip west of Memphis. When us as investors buy a property, we've got to be cognizant of the fact that that property swims in an economic ocean, and therefore job vibrancy is, after all, how the tenant pays the rent. So tell us about economic developments in Memphis and Little Rock, because there are some exciting ones.   Matthew Vanhorn  32:24   So yeah, both in Memphis and in Little Rock, we've got the roads, we've got the rivers, we've got the rails, which drives both Memphis and Little Rock as distribution hubs here in the middle of America. And so of course, FedEx famously has their headquarters here in Memphis. Many of your listeners will know it's the largest cargo airport in America. We've had a resurgence of X. AI has actually come to Memphis and built the world's largest supercomputer here in Memphis, and they're actually working hard now on building a second called Colossus two, which is going to be even larger. They're saying it may hold as many as 1 million Nvidia chips, which I can't do that math, but that's a lot of money. And so x AI is has quickly become the second largest taxpayer here in Memphis and in Shelby County. And 25% of those tax proceeds, by the way are going, they're earmarked to go right into that local community beside where the plant is, and all the development is in Little Rock. You know, of course, it's Arkansas's largest city. It's the capital city, and so by nature of that, there are many stable state government jobs there that is a bulwark of the economic development there. There is a actually Fintech startup space is big in Little Rock as well. Lockheed Martin has been doing developments there, so a lot of aerospace development around Little Rock. Folks who look at our homes will also notice that we are in Jacksonville, which is a suburb of Little Rock that's anchored by the Air Force base there in Jacksonville. And there's actually a large munitions supplier there, Sig Sauer, which provides a lot of jobs to the locals there. And our number one, I may have mentioned it earlier, our number one employer in Central Arkansas is actually Baptist Health Medical Center. And just generally speaking, health care workers make up the largest portion of our residents in Central Arkansas. So a lot of great economic drivers that we're seeing bringing renters to Little Rock and and new jobs there. As a matter of fact, not just that, but I noted recently that the cost of living in Little Rock is now 10% below the national average. I think we had a report on our website a few years ago that it was 6% and that's actually. It's only becoming more favorable to live in Central Arkansas.   Keith Weinhold  35:04   You're talking about stable and growing drivers here, AI related businesses and healthcare. Let's talk about those rents and prices. Because really, this is one reason why national investors are so drawn to that area. It's that high affordability and that high ratio of rent income to purchase price. So what sort of rent and price ranges are we looking at in both markets now,   Matthew Vanhorn  35:29   it's not the same as it was when I started here in 2012 Reds have increased and so, you know, average rents around here start around 900 and now we're going up to about 1700 toward the high end there. And you know, the great news is that incomes have increased as well, and so our renters are able to afford this just as well as they were before. Or maybe even better, like I mentioned, cost of living in Arkansas has actually improved. And so what that means is people are actually making more money compared to the rent, even though rents have increased, which I believe is good news for investors, and it's been good news for us as a management company, as I think that contributes to the resident longevity there, once again,   Keith Weinhold  36:17   nowhere in the nation Do we hear enough about increased affordability stories, which is exactly what you have when your income rises faster than your rent, which is a harbinger of being able to increase the rent in the future. Tell us more about the rent in price ranges in both markets.   Matthew Vanhorn  36:35   In Memphis, if you get a two bed, one bath, you can often find that for as low as 808 850, something like that. As you step up into a three bed one bath, that's going to be somewhere between 1000 1200, depending on where you are in the city, there in Memphis, if you're in our new construction homes, those can range between 1395 all the way up to 1850 once again, depending on the size of the construction and the location out in Arkansas, rents tend to be just a little bit higher than in Memphis. So you see the rent starting there around 950 and going up to just under 2000   Keith Weinhold  37:19   and we're interested in that capital price, because a lot of times, investors think about their purchase through that perspective of the ratio of the rent income to the purchase price.   Matthew Vanhorn  37:30   As far as sales price goes, Keith, we started right around $100,000 on the low end, and those can range up to 240,000 thereabouts, on the high end, if you're talking about a new construction, three, two with a two car garage in an appreciating area. You can see that sort of range in Memphis, very similar, very similar. We have some of our smaller rehabs starting as low as 100,000 and going up to about that $215,000 range.   Keith Weinhold  38:04   Now, I would imagine, in the inflationary era that we're still in, that you get investors that call in there, and you do have these robust interactions with investors, where you talk with them on the phone like a human being, and people that say, come on. How can you get a respectable tenant in a single family rehab rental home that only costs $120,000 How do you handle questions like that?   Matthew Vanhorn  38:30   That's the whole job here is explaining that Sure, no where our renters are living. It's the best home that they've ever lived in, and it's it's in a affordable area. It's in an area where their friends live, where you just have workforce, just blue collar, but beautiful neighborhoods where they live. And I mean, they're proud to call these houses their home, and for many, it really is their dream home.   Keith Weinhold  38:55   People mold their lawns. The streets aren't littered with trash. I know where you guys invest. I've been on the streets there with you, checking them out. What percentage of investors finance the property, and how has that changed over time?   Terry Kerr  39:09   I'm going to say that it's probably about 75% finance, 25% cash. A lot of your listeners come with their own mortgage broker. The ones that don't, we have our tried and true mortgage brokers. Interest rates are not 4% anymore, and some folks are are wanting to pay cash, and they do, and some of them will pay cash, and then, you know, plan on refinancing later. But right now, that's probably about 25% cash, 75% finance.    Keith Weinhold  39:36   Yeah, it's interesting to see that direction, since rates did begin to get higher in 2022 you have this robust interaction with investors, but that doesn't only have to be over the phone. You guys are so proud of what you do that you've long offered investor tours. In fact, now you're doing more of those investor tours than you ever have. I believe you're doing 11. In tours per year in Memphis, and five in Little Rock as well.So tell us about that.    Terry Kerr  40:04   I guess it was maybe seven or eight years ago. We're so stoked that everybody wants to buy houses from us, and we've got, you know, a short wait list, and that's awesome, but we want folks to come visit us, and so, you know, we just started offering folks $500 off of the purchase of their first home, if they'll just come visit us. And so we know it's in our best interest to try to get to know our investors on a personal level, and the investors that do come to visit us, and we're able to pull back the curtain and show them, you know how operational efficiency benefits them as investors. I think they appreciate it, and then we do also just kind of like the nerd out on the nuts and bolts of the business. So it's fun to be able to pull that curtain back.   Keith Weinhold  40:48   Now, you don't have to be an investor to come on the tour, either prospective investors or regular investors that are already there can come on the tour. Is the Tour Free? Absolutely. So the tour is free, and you get a $500 credit if you end up purchasing there. Most investors never come physically see the property at all, but you sure can do that, and they make it really easy for you. Well, this is going to help a lot of people, especially when we think about how to manage the tenant and reduce our vacancy time in today's era. Before I ask how our listeners can learn more about you. Do you have any last thoughts at all about anything that we discussed management or properties or tenants or anything else? Maybe I did not think about asking you.   Matthew Vanhorn  41:32   I'll just go back to Keith talking about how well staffed we are here at Mid South. I think that's where we stand. Apart from a lot of our competitors is that we're not just two or three guys in an office here, we have over 100 employees. It takes speed to deliver good service. Service leads to satisfaction. Satisfaction leads to the residents staying. The resident staying leads to stacks of cash for you as investors, and the only way you can do that is if you're staffed up properly. And so that's something that you want to ask if you're ever vetting another property manager, is what does your staff look like? And really understand, can they actually provide the service to their residents and to their investors that they're reporting?   Keith Weinhold  42:17   You have helped more of our listeners than any other provider in the nation, certainly over 100 of them, perhaps hundreds by now. I'm not really sure if listeners want to get a hold of you, what's the best way for them to do that?    Terry Kerr  42:31   Invest at mid southhomebuyers.com   Keith Weinhold  42:34   that's a great starting place for you. And that way you can take a look at properties, get thinking about the market. Learn more about their management and get a hold of them. Terry and Matthew, it's been valuable as usual. Thanks so much for coming out of the show.   Matthew Vanhorn  42:49   Thank you, Keith.    Terry Kerr  42:49   Thank you, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  42:56   Oh yeah. Sharp insights from Terry and Matthew at mid south homebuyers today, waiving their application fee means more applicants, a bigger renter pool to choose from, which either shortens your vacancy time or it's going to get you a better quality tenant. Now, a lot of people, they think that real estate is unaffordable and even impossible, but few make it easier and more affordable than these people. And I think I shared with you before that, an 18 year old guy who I do know and have talked to in person, he bought his first ever rental property from mid south homebuyers. So it's kind of interesting. His goal was to own his first rental property when he was 18, and he closed just in time the day before his 19th birthday. I think he's age 20 now, but because fully renovated single family homes can be bought in a range of about 100 to 220k here, and you will put 20 to 25% of a down payment on that your monthly rent is about eight tenths of 1% of that purchase price. Okay, so that's renovated, and then new builds sell in a range of 200 to 260k rent to price ratios on those are a little lower. They're point seven five or so. Now we are here in an era where mortgage rates are in the low sixes for owner occupied that means you'll pay closer to 7% on income properties. But if you go new build, which is really something I've been suggesting to you for a while, if you can swing it, those rates are as low as five and a quarter percent for qualified buyers here, yes, at these low Memphis and Little Rock prices, they've got a few duplexes usually available as well, renting your residence. It's just something that's sort of in the culture there in Memphis, and that's why they're confident in offering a number of guarantees for investors. They just do things that. That other providers don't do in the rare event that your property is occupied and then it somehow falls vacant during your first year of ownership. Their releasing fee is free. They also have a guarantee that you will cash flow after you close. They have a one year bumper to bumper warranty on the renovations we're talking about from the doorknob to the ductwork, and there's a lifetime 90 day occupancy guarantee. What that means is, if your property were ever vacant for that long, they would start paying rent to you on day 91 but you know what's amazing? It's easy for them to offer that they'll tell you that they've never had to pay out on that, because they've never experienced the vacancy of more than 55 days. Just amazing. And all those guarantees I just told you about that is in writing on their website. So if you want to get a hold of them, there's virtually no one else in the nation that makes it easier and more affordable. I believe that's an email address that Terry gave there. Again, it is invest@midsouthhomebuyers.com their website is, as you might have guessed, midsouthhomebuyers.com that's midsouthhomebuyers.com interestingly, you can even look at their income properties. There some provider websites don't let you do that. And again, they offer free tours, and if you prefer, their phone number is 901-306-9009, this week, you learned some great techniques for reducing your vacancy and being more profitable, as well as a provider that can deliver it for you. Should you so choose? The proverb goes, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Well, you've got the option of doing either one or both today, until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 1  46:59   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you   Keith Weinhold  47:27   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com