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Dennis and Brady are out in Imlay City to talk Spartan football with head coach Dave Brown! Brown is heading into his fourth season, the progress he's made, who he expects to make plays for IC this year and more!

“Manager and leader”? What's the difference. During my conversation this time with Scott Hanton, our guest, we will discuss this very point along with many other fascinating and interesting subjects. As Scott tells us at the beginning of this episode he grew up asking “why” about most anything you can think of. He always was a “why” asker. As he tells it, unlike many children who grow out of the phase of asking “why” he did not. He still asks “why” to this very day.   At the age of 13 Scott decided that he wanted to be a chemist. He tells us how this decision came about and why he has always stayed with it. Scott received his bachelor's degree in Chemistry from Michigan State and his PHD from the University of Wisconsin. Again, why he changed schools for his PHD work is an interesting story. As you will see, Scott tells stories in a unique and quite articulate way.   After his university days were over Scott went to work, yes as a chemist. He tells us about this and how after 20 years with one company how and why he moved to another company and somewhat out of constant lab work into some of the management, business and leadership side of a second company. He stayed there for ten years and was laid off during the pandemic. Scott then found employment as the editorial director of Lab Management Magazine where he got to bring his love of teaching to the forefront of his work.   My hour with Scott gives us all many insights into management, leadership and how to combine the two to create a strong teaming environment. I believe you will find Scott's thoughts extremely poignant and helpful in everything that you do.     About the Guest:   Scott Hanton is the Editorial Director of Lab Manager. He spent 30 years as a research chemist, lab manager, and business leader at Air Products and Intertek. Scott thrives on the challenges of problem-solving. He enjoys research, investigation, and collaboration. Scott is a people-centric, servant leader. He is motivated by developing environments where people can grow and succeed, and crafting roles for people that take advantage of their strengths.   Scott earned a BS in chemistry from Michigan State University and a PhD in physical chemistry from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He is an active member of the American Chemical Society (ACS), the American Society of Mass Spectrometry (ASMS), and the Association of Lab Managers (ALMA). As a scientist Scott values curiosity, innovation, progress, and delivery of results. Scott has always been motivated by questions beginning with why. Studying physical chemistry in graduate school offered the opportunity to hone answers to these questions. As a professional scientist, Scott worked in analytical chemistry specializing in MALDI mass spectrometry and polymer characterization.   At Scott married his high school sweetheart, and they have one son. Scott is motivated by excellence, happiness, and kindness. He most enjoys helping people and solving problems. Away from work, Scott enjoys working outside in the yard, playing strategy games, and participating in different discussion groups.   Scott values having a growth mindset and is a life-long learner. He strives to learn something new everyday and from everyone. One of the great parts of being a trained research scientist is that failure really isn't part of his vocabulary. He experiments and either experiences success or learns something new. He values both individual and organizational learning.   Scott's current role at Lab Manager encompasses three major responsibilities: ·      Writing articles and giving presentations to share his experience with lab managers. ·      Driving the creation and growth of the Lab Manager Academy (https://labmanageracademy.com/) that currently contains three certificate programs: lab management, lab safety management, and lab quality management. ·      Helping people through his knowledge of science, scientists, management, and leadership. He is very happy sharing the accumulated wisdom of his experiences as a researcher, lab supervisor, and lab manager. Each article posted on Lab Manager addresses a decision that a lab manager needs to make. Lab management is full of decision-making, so helping people make better, faster, more complete decisions is very satisfying. Ways to connect with Scott:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-hanton/   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet, and mostly we get to deal with the unexpected, as opposed to inclusion or diversity. But that's okay, because unexpected is what makes life fun, and our guest today, Scott Hanton, will definitely be able to talk about that. Scott has been a research chemist. He comes from the chemistry world, so he and I in the past have compared notes, because, of course, I come from the physics world, and I love to tell people that the most important thing I learned about physics was that, unlike Doc Brown, although I do know how to build a bomb, unlike Doc Brown from Back to the Future, I'm not dumb enough to try to go steal fissionable material from a terrorist group to build the bomb. So, you know, I suppose that's a value, value lesson somewhere. But anyway, I am really glad that you're all here with us today, and we have lots to talk about. Scott, as I said, was in chemistry and research chemist, and now is the editorial supervisor and other things for a magazine called lab manager, and we will talk about that as well. So Scott, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad   Scott Hanton ** 02:38 you're here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation with you today.   Michael Hingson ** 02:43 Well, I think it'll be a lot of fun, and looking forward to it. Now, you're in Michigan, right?   Scott Hanton ** 02:48 That's right. I live in South Lyon, Michigan,   Michael Hingson ** 02:51 ah, what's the weather back there today?   Scott Hanton ** 02:55 It's probably about 55 degrees and cloudy   Michael Hingson ** 02:58 here today. Well, it's still fairly sunny here, and we're actually, according to my iPhone, at 71 so it was up around 80 earlier in the week, but weather changes are still going to bring some cold for a while   Scott Hanton ** 03:15 in here in Michigan, I visited a customer earlier this week, and I drove by about 1000 orange barrels on the highway, which means it's spring, because there's only two seasons in Michigan, winter and construction.   Michael Hingson ** 03:29 There you go. Yeah, I know. I went to the University of California, Irvine, UCI. And if you ask somebody who doesn't know that UCI stands for University of California at Irvine. If you ask them what UCI stands for, they'll tell you, under construction indefinitely. Sounds right? Yeah. Well, it's been doing it ever since I was there a long time ago, and they they continue to grow. Now we're up to like 32,000 fresh, or excuse me, undergraduates at the university. And when I was there, there were 2700 students. So it's grown a little. That's   Scott Hanton ** 04:05 a lot of change. I'm used to big universities. I'm a graduate of both Michigan State and the University of Wisconsin. So these are big places.   Michael Hingson ** 04:13 Wow, yeah. So you're used to it. I really enjoyed it when it was a small campus. I'm glad I went there, and that was one of the reasons that caused me to go there, was because I knew I could probably get a little bit more visibility with instructors, and that would be helpful for me to get information when they didn't describe things well in class. And it generally worked out pretty well. So I can't complain a lot. Perfect. Glad it worked well for you, it did. Well, why don't you start, if you would, by telling us kind of about the early Scott growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Scott Hanton ** 04:49 I grew up in Michigan, in a town called Saginaw. I was blessed with a family that loved me and that, you know, I was raised in a very. Supportive environment. But young Scott asked, Why about everything you know, the way kids do? Yeah, right. And my mom would tell you that when I was a kid, why was my most favorite word? And most kids outgrow that. I never did, yeah, so Me neither. I still ask why all the time. It's still my most favorite word, and it caused me to want to go explore the sciences, because what I found, as I learned about science, was that I could get answers to why questions better in science than in other places.   Michael Hingson ** 05:34 Yeah, makes sense. So what kinds of questions did you ask about why? Well, I asked   Scott Hanton ** 05:43 all kinds of questions about why, like, why are we having that for dinner? Or, why is my bedtime so early? Those questions didn't have good answers, at least from my perspective, right? But I also asked questions like, why is grass green, and why is the sky blue? And studying physical chemistry at Michigan State answered those questions. And so   Michael Hingson ** 06:03 how early did you learn about Rayleigh scattering? But that's you know?   Scott Hanton ** 06:07 Well, I learned the basic concepts from a really important teacher in my life, Mr. Leeson was my seventh grade science teacher, and what I learned from him is that I could ask questions that weren't pertinent to what he was lecturing about, and that taught me a lot about the fact that science was a lot bigger than what we got in the curriculum or in the classroom. And so Mr. Leeson was a really important person in my development, and showed me that there was that science was a lot bigger than I thought it was as a student, but I didn't really learn about rally scattering until I got to college.   Michael Hingson ** 06:43 But at the same time, it sounds like he was willing to allow you to grow and and learn, which so many people aren't willing to do. They're too impatient.   Scott Hanton ** 06:58 He was a first year teacher the year I had him so he hadn't become cynical yet. So it was great to just be able to stay after class and ask him a question, or put my hand up in class and ask him a question. He also did a whole series of demonstrations that were fabulous and made the science come to life in a way that reading about it doesn't stir the imagination. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:23 I had teachers that did that too. I remember very well my freshman general science teacher in high school, Mr. Dills, and one day, and he loved to do kind of unique things, just to push the boundaries of students a little bit. He came in one day and he said, I got a pop quiz for everybody, which doesn't help me, because the pop quiz was in print, but he handed it out. And then he took me to the back of the room, and he said, You're not going to really be able to do this quiz. Let me tell you why. And he said, Oh, and one thing he said is, just be sure you follow all the instructions and you'll be fine on the test to everybody. He brought me back to the back of the room. He says, Well, here's the deal. He says, if people really read the instructions, what they'll do is they'll read the instruction that says, Read all the questions before you start answering, and if you get to the last question, it says answer only the first question, which is what is your name and and sure enough, of course, people didn't read the instructions. And he said, so I wouldn't be able to really deal with you with that one, with that whole thing, just because it wouldn't work well. And I said, I understand, but he loved to make students think, and I learned so much about the whole concept of realizing the need to observe and be observant in all that you do. And it was lessons like that from him that really helped a lot with that. For me,   Scott Hanton ** 08:48 I had a high school chemistry teacher named Mrs. Schultz, and the first experiment that we did in her class, in the first week of classes, was she wanted us to document all of the observations that we could make about a burning candle. And I was a hot shot student. Thought I, you know, owned the world, and I was going to ace this test. And, you know, I had maybe a dozen observations about a burning candle, and thought I had done a great job describing it, until she started sharing her list, and she probably had 80 observations about a burning candle, and it taught me the power of observation and the need to talk about the details of those observations and to be specific about what the observations were. And that experiment seems simple, light a candle and tell me what you see. Yeah, but that lesson has carried on with me now for more than approaching 50 years.   Michael Hingson ** 09:47 Let's see, as I recall, if you light a candle, what the center of the flame is actually pretty cool compared to the outside. It's more hollow. Now I wouldn't be able to easily tell that, because. Is my my process for observing doesn't really use eyesight to do that, so I I'm sure there are other technologies today that I could use to get more of that information. But   Scott Hanton ** 10:12 I'm also sure that that experiment could be re crafted so that it wasn't so visual, yeah, right, that there could be tactile experiments to tell me about observations or or audible experiments about observation, where you would excel in ways that I would suffer because I'm so visually dominant. The   Michael Hingson ** 10:33 issue, though, is that today, there's a lot more technology to do that than there was when I was in school and you were in school, but yeah, I think there is a lot available. There's a company called Independence Science, which is actually owned and run by Dr Cary sapollo. And Carrie is blind, and he is a blind chemist, and he wanted to help develop products for blind people to be able to deal with laboratory work. So he actually worked with a company that was, well, it's now Vernier education systems. They make a product called LabQuest with something like 80 different kinds of probes that you can attach to it, and the LabQuest will will provide visual interpretations of whatever the probes are showing carry, and independent science took that product and made it talk, so that There is now a Talking LabQuest. And the reality is that all those probes became usable because the LabQuest became accessible to be able to do that, and they put a lot of other things into it too. So it's more than just as a talking device, a lab device. It's got a periodic table in it. It's got a lot of other kinds of things that they just put in it as well. But it's really pretty cool because it now makes science a whole lot more accessible. I'm going to have to think about the different kinds of probes and how one could use that to look at a candle. I think that'd be kind of fun.   Scott Hanton ** 12:15 And it's just awesome to hear that there's innovation and space to make science more available to everybody. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:23 the real problem that we face is the one that we mostly always have faced, which is societal attitudes, as opposed to really being or not being able to do the experiments, is people think we can't, and that's the barrier that we always, usually have to overcome.   Scott Hanton ** 12:39 What I find in my time as a coach, mentor, supervisor, is that if somebody believes they can't do it, they can't do it. Yeah. And so it's often about overcoming their own mental limitations, the limitations that they've placed on themselves,   Michael Hingson ** 12:56 and that's right, or unfortunately, the limitations that other people place on us, and we, all too often and weigh too much, buy into those limitations. So it's it is something that we, especially in the sciences, should recognize that we shouldn't be doing so much of. I know that when I was at UC Irvine as a graduate student, I learned once that there was a letter in my file that a professor wrote. Fortunately, I never had him as a professor, but it and I was in my master's program at the time in physics, and this guy put a letter in my file saying that no blind person could ever absorb the material to get an advanced degree in physics at the University. Just put that in there, which is so unfortunate, because the real thing that is demonstrated there is a prejudice that no scientist should ever have.   Scott Hanton ** 13:51 I'm hopeful that as you graduated, there was a retraction letter in your file as well,   Michael Hingson ** 13:57 not that I ever heard, but yeah. Well, I'd already gotten my bachelor's degree, but yeah. But you know, things happen, but it is a it is a societal thing, and society all too often creates limitations, and sometimes we don't find them right away, but it is one of the big issues that, in general, we have to deal with. And on all too often, society does some pretty strange things because it doesn't understand what science is all about. I know when we were dealing with covid, when it all started, leaving the conspiracy theorists out of it. One of the things that I learned was that we have all these discussions about AI, if you will. But AI was one of the primary mechanisms that helped to develop the mRNA vaccines that are now still the primary things that we use to get vaccinated against covid, because they the artificial intelligence. I'm not sure how artificial. It is, but was able to craft what became the vaccine in a few days. And scientists acknowledged, if they had to do it totally on their own, it would take years to have done what AI did in a few days.   Scott Hanton ** 15:13 The AI technology is amazing and powerful, but it's not new. No, I met a person who shared her story about AI investigations and talked about what she was doing in this field 30 years ago. Yeah, in her master's work. And you know, I knew it wasn't brand new, but I didn't really realize how deep its roots went until I talked to her.   Michael Hingson ** 15:37 I worked as my first jobs out of college with Ray Kurzweil, who, of course, nowadays, is well known for the singularity and so on. But back then, he developed the first reading machine that blind people could use to read printed material. And one of the things that he put into that machine was the ability, as it scanned more material, to learn and better recognize the material. And so he was doing machine learning back in the 1970s   Scott Hanton ** 16:07 right? And all of this is, you know, as Newton said on the shoulders of giants, right, right? He said it a bit cynically, but it's still true that we all in science, we are learning from each other. We're learning from the broader community, and we're integrating that knowledge as we tackle the challenges that we are exploring.   Michael Hingson ** 16:27 So what got you to go into chemistry when you went into college?   Scott Hanton ** 16:33 That's a good question. So when I was 13 years old, I went on a youth a church group youth trip to another city, and so they split us up, and there were three of us from our group that stayed overnight in a host family. And at dinner that night, the father worked in a pharmaceutical company, and he talked about the work he was doing, and what he was doing was really synthetic chemistry around small molecule drug discovery. And for me, it was absolutely fascinating. I was thrilled at that information. I didn't know any scientists growing up, I had no adult input other than teachers about science, and I can remember going back home and my parents asking me how the trip went. And it's like, it's fantastic. I'm going to be a chemist. And they both looked at me like, what is that? How do you make money from it? How do you get that? My dad was a banker. My mom was a school teacher. They had no scientific background, but that that one conversation, such serendipity, right? One conversation when I was 13 years old, and I came home and said, I'm going to be a chemist, and I've never really deviated from that path. Did you have other siblings? Younger brother and another younger sister?   Michael Hingson ** 17:54 Okay? Did they go into science by any remote chance?   Scott Hanton ** 17:58 Not at all. So they were both seventh grade teachers for more than 30 years. So my brother taught math and English, and my sister teaches social studies.   Michael Hingson ** 18:10 Well, there you go. But that is also important. I actually wanted to teach physics, but jobs and other things and circumstances took me in different directions, but I think the reality is that I ended up going into sales. And what I realized, and it was partly because of a Dale Carnegie sales course I took, but I realized that good sales people are really teachers, because they're really teaching people about products or about things, and they're also sharp enough to recognize what their products might or might not do to help a customer. But that, again, not everyone does that, but so I figure I still was teaching, and today, being a public speaker, traveling the world, talking, of course, about teamwork and other things, it's still all about teaching.   Scott Hanton ** 18:57 I think I've always been a teacher, and if you talk to my coworkers along the way, I enjoy helping people. I enjoy sharing my knowledge. There's always been a teacher inside but only in this job as the editorial director at lab manager have I really been able to do it directly. So we've developed what we call the lab manager Academy, and I create e learning courses to help lab managers be more successful, and it's been a passion project for me, and it's been a load of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 19:30 And it doesn't get better than that. It's always great when it's a load of fun, yes,   Scott Hanton ** 19:35 well, so you left college and you got a bachelor's and a master's degree, right? No masters for me, that step you went right to the old PhD, yeah. So I went straight. I went graduated from Michigan State. So Michigan State was on terms back in those days. So graduated in June, got married in July, moved to Wisconsin in August. To graduate school at the end of August at the University of Wisconsin. Okay? And my second year as a graduate student, my professor asked me, Do you want to stop and complete a master's? And I said, Wait, tell me about this word stop. And he said, Well, you'd have to finish the Master's requirements and write a thesis, and that's going to take some time. And I said, Do I have to and he said, No, and I don't recommend it. Just keep going forward and finish your PhD. So that's   Michael Hingson ** 20:30 and what does your wife do?   Scott Hanton ** 20:33 So my wife also is in the graduate program at the University of Wisconsin, and she decided that a master's degree was the right answer for her, because she didn't want to be a PhD scientist in XYZ narrow band of science. She wanted to be a master of chemistry. Okay, and so we took different paths through graduate school, but each of us took the path that worked best for us, and each pass has great value, so we're both happy with the choices that we made,   Michael Hingson ** 21:06 and complement each other and also give you, still lots of great things to talk about over dinner.   Scott Hanton ** 21:12 Absolutely. And she took that master's degree, went into the pharmaceutical industry and largely behaved as a librarian in her first part of her career, she wasn't called a librarian, but what she really did was a lot of information integrating, and then moved into the Library Group, and was a corporate librarian for a long time, and then a community librarian. So that path worked brilliantly for her. She also has a Masters of Library Science. So I have one PhD. She has two Master's degree. I have one bachelor's degree. She has two bachelor's degree.   Michael Hingson ** 21:50 Oh, so you can have interesting discussions about who really progressed further,   21:54 absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 21:57 Well, that's, that's, that's cute, though. Well, I I got my bachelor's and master's. My wife, who I didn't meet until years later, wanted to be a librarian, but she ended up getting a a Master's at USC in so in sociology and and ended up getting a teaching credential and going into teaching, and taught for 10 years, and then she decided she wanted to do something different, and became a travel agent, which she had a lot of fun with. That is different, it is, but she enjoyed it, and along the way, then we got married. It was a great marriage. She was in a wheelchair her whole life. So she read, I pushed, worked out well, complimentary skills, absolutely, which is the way, way it ought to be, you know, and we had a lot of fun with it. Unfortunately, she passed now two and a half years ago, but as I tell people, we were married 40 years, and I'm sure she's monitoring me from somewhere, and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it, so I try to just behave. Sounds like good advice. Yeah, probably certainly the safe way to go. But we, we, we had lots of neat discussions, and our our activities and our expertise did, in a lot of ways, complement each other, so it was a lot of fun. And as I said, she went to USC. I enjoyed listening to USC football because I thought that that particular college team had the best announcers in the business, least when when I was studying in Southern California, and then when we got married, we learned the the day we got married, the wedding was supposed to start at four, and it didn't start till later because people weren't showing up for the wedding. And we learned that everybody was sitting out in their cars waiting for the end of the USC Notre Dame game. And we knew that God was on our side when we learned that SC beat the snot out of Notre Dame. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh, the rivalries we face. So what did you do after college?   Scott Hanton ** 24:09 So did my PhD at the University of Wisconsin. And one of the nice things, a fringe benefit of going to a big, important program to do your PhD, is that recruiters come to you. And so I was able to do 40 different, four, zero, 40 different interviews on campus without leaving Madison. And one of those interviews was with a company called Air Products. And that worked out, and they hired me. And so we moved to Allentown, Pennsylvania to go to work. I went to work at Air Products and and Helen found a role in the pharmaceutical industry at Merck. And so we did that for a long time. I was initially a research expert, a PhD expert doing lasers and materials and analytical stuff. And over the years. I progressed up the ladder from researcher to supervisor to what did we call it, group head to Section Manager, to operations manager, and ultimately to General Manager.   Michael Hingson ** 25:13 Well, at least being in Allentown, you were close to a Cracker Barrel restaurant. Yes, that is true. That was the closest to one to where we lived in New Jersey, so we visited it several times. That's how I know   Scott Hanton ** 25:26 about it. Maybe we were there at the same time. Michael, maybe this isn't our first. It's   Michael Hingson ** 25:31 very possible. But we enjoyed Cracker Barrel and enjoyed touring around Pennsylvania. So I should have asked, What prompted you to go to the University of Wisconsin to do your your graduate work, as opposed to staying in Michigan. So   Scott Hanton ** 25:47 my advisor at Michigan State, our advisor at Michigan State, told us, here's the top five schools, graduate programs in chemistry, apply to them all. Go to the one you get into. And so I got into three. Helen got into two. The one that was the same was Wisconsin. So that's where we went, yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 26:09 Well, then no better logic and argument than that.   Scott Hanton ** 26:14 It was a great Madison. Wisconsin is a beautiful city. It one of the things I really liked about the chemistry program there then, and it's still true now, is how well the faculty get along together so many collaborative projects and just friendliness throughout the hallways. And yes, they are all competing at some level for grant support, but they get along so well, and that makes it for a very strong community,   Michael Hingson ** 26:41 and it probably also means that oftentimes someone who's applying for something can enlist support from other people who are willing to help.   Scott Hanton ** 26:50 And as a graduate student, it meant that I had more than one professor that I could go to my advisor. There was a whole group of advisors who ran joint group meetings and would give us advice about our work or our writing or our approach, or just because we needed a pep talk, because completing a PhD is hard. Yeah, right, so that community was really important to me, and it's something I took away that when I started my industrial career, I had seen the value of community, and I wanted to build stronger communities wherever I went, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 27:26 So what does a company, does air products do   Scott Hanton ** 27:31 that's sort of in the name, right? They're an industrial gas company. Got some of their big, biggest products are taking air and separating it into its components of nitrogen, oxygen, oxygen, argon, whatever, right? But at that time, they also had a chemicals business and a semiconductor business, or electronics business. So there was a lot of chemistry going on, although a lot of my work colleagues were chemical engineers who were working on the gasses side of the business, we had significant number of chemistry, sorts material science, sorts of people who are working on the chemicals side. Now, over time, Air Products divested those businesses, and now it's much more of a true industrial gas company. But I had the opportunity to work in an integrated science company that did all sorts of things.   Michael Hingson ** 28:23 Yeah, and as as we know, certainly a little helium never hurt anyone.   Scott Hanton ** 28:30 No little helium, you know, raises people's spirits, it   Michael Hingson ** 28:34 does and their voices, it does. I I've visited helium tanks many times at UC Irvine when they had liquid helium, which was certainly a challenge because of how cold it had to be. But occasionally we would open a valve and little cold but useful helium gas would escape   Scott Hanton ** 28:56 very cold. Please be safe. Cryogens are are dangerous materials, and we gotta make sure we handle them with due respect.   Michael Hingson ** 29:05 Yeah, well, we, we all did and and didn't take too many chances. So it worked out pretty well. So you stayed in Allentown and you stayed with Air Products for how long   Scott Hanton ** 29:19 I was in Air Products for 20 years. So the analytical group that I was part of, we were about 92 or 93 people when I joined the company, when I just left after earning my PhD. After 20 years, that group was down to about 35 just progressive series of decisions that made the department smaller, and as the Department got smaller and smaller, we were worried about our abilities to sustain our work. And so a dear friend and a key colleague, Paula McDaniel, and I, worked to try to see what other kind of opportunities there were. Yeah. And so we reached out to a contract research organization called Intertech to see if they would be interested in maybe acquiring our analytical department. And when we called them, and by the way, we called them before we talked to our boss about it, she forgave us later, but when we called the guy on the end of the phone said, Wait a minute, let me get your file. And it's like, what you have a file on Air Products, analytical, really? Why? Well, it turned out that they had a file, and that they had an active Merger and Acquisition Group, and they wanted an integrated analytical department on the east coast of the US. And so we engaged in negotiation, and ultimately this analytical department was sold by Air Products to Intertech. So on Friday, we're a little cog in a giant engine of an global, international company, and our funding comes from Vice Presidents. And on Monday, we're a standalone business of 35 people, we need to write quotes in order to make money. So it was an enormous challenge to transition from a service organization to a business. But oh my goodness, did we learn a lot,   Michael Hingson ** 31:13 certainly a major paradigm shift,   Scott Hanton ** 31:18 and I was lucky that I lost the coin flip, and Paula won, and she said, I want to be business development director. And I said, thank God. So she went off to be the key salesperson, and Paula was utterly brilliant as a technical salesperson, and I became the operations manager, which allowed me to keep my hands dirty with the science and to work with the scientists and to build a system and a community that allowed us to be successful in a CRO world.   Michael Hingson ** 31:49 So at that time, when you became part, part of them, the new company, were you or the standalone business? Were you working in lab? Still yourself?   Scott Hanton ** 32:01 Yes. So I had the title Operations Manager and all of the scientific staff reported into me, but I was still the technical expert in some mass spectrometry techniques, particularly MALDI and also tough Sims, and so I still had hands on lab responsibility that I needed to deliver. And over time, I was able to train some people to take some of those responsibilities off. But when the weight of the world was particularly heavy, the place for me to go was in the lab and do some experiments.   Michael Hingson ** 32:34 Yeah, still so important to be able to keep your hand in into to know and understand. I know I had that same sort of need being the manager of an office and oftentimes working with other people who were the engineers, coming from a little bit of a technical background as well. I worked to always make sure I knew all I could about the products that I was dealing with and selling, and my sales people who worked for me constantly asked, How come, you know, all this stuff, and we don't then, my response always was, did you read the product bulletin that came out last week? Or have you kept up on the product bulletins? Because it's all right there, whether I actually physically repaired products or not, I knew how to do it. And so many times when I was involved in working with some of our engineers, I remember a few times our field support people, and we were working out of New Jersey, and then in New York at the time, in the World Trade Center, we had some customers up at Lockheed Martin, up in Syria, Rochester, I think it was. And the guys would go up, and then they'd call me on the phone, and we'd talk about it, and between us, we came up with some bright ideas. And I remember one day, all of a sudden, I get this phone call, and these guys are just bouncing off the walls, because whatever it was that was going on between them and me, we figured it out, and they put it in play and made it work, and they were all just as happy as clams at high tide, which is the way it ought to   Scott Hanton ** 34:13 be. It's great to work in a team that finds success. The longer I was in technical management, the more I enjoyed the success of the team. It didn't need to be my success anymore that helping the scientists be successful in their roles was truly satisfying,   Michael Hingson ** 34:33 and that helped you, by definition, be more successful in your role.   Scott Hanton ** 34:36 And no question, it could be seen as a selfish byproduct, but the fact is that it still felt really good.   Michael Hingson ** 34:43 Yeah, I hear you, because I know for me, I never thought about it as I've got to be successful. It's we've got problems to solve. Let's do it together. And I always told people that we're a team. And I have told every salesperson. I ever hired. I'm not here to boss you around. You've convinced me that you should be able to sell our products, and sometimes I found that they couldn't. But I said my job is to work with you to figure out how I can enhance what you do, and what skills do I bring to add value to you, because we've got to work together, and the people who understood that and who got it were always the most successful people that I ever had in my teams.   Scott Hanton ** 35:30 One of the things I strive to do as a leader of any organization is to understand the key strengths of the people on the team and to try to craft their roles in such a way that they spend the majority of their time executing their strengths. Yeah. I've also discovered that when I truly investigate poor performance, there's often a correlation between poor performance and people working in their weaknesses. Yeah, and if we can shift those jobs, change those roles, make change happen so that people can work more often in their strengths, then good things happen.   Michael Hingson ** 36:07 And if you can bring some of your skills into the mix and augment what they do, so much the better.   Scott Hanton ** 36:16 Yeah, because I'm just another member of the team, my role is different, but I need to also apply my strengths to the problems and be wary of my weaknesses, because as the leader of the organization, my words carried undue weight. Yeah, and if, if I was speaking or acting in a space where I was weak, people would still do what I said, because I had the most authority, and that was just a lose, lose proposition   Michael Hingson ** 36:43 by any standard. And and when you, when you operated to everyone's strengths, it always was a win. Yep, which is so cool. So you went to Intertech, and how long were you there?   Scott Hanton ** 36:57 I was at Intertech for 10 years, and work I can if you know, for any listeners out there who work in the CRO world, it is a tough business. It is a grind working in that business, yeah? So it was a lot of long hours and testy customers and shortages of materials and equipment that was a hard a hard a hard road to plow,   Michael Hingson ** 37:22 yeah, yeah, it gets to be frustrating. Sometimes it's what you got to do, but it still gets to be frustrating gets to be a challenge. The best part   Scott Hanton ** 37:32 for me was I had a great team. We had senior and junior scientists. They were good people. They worked hard. They fundamentally, they cared about the outcomes. And so it was a great group of people to work with. But the contract lab business is a tough business. Yeah, so when covid came, you know, the pandemic settles in, all the restrictions are coming upon us. I was tasked as the General Manager of the business with setting up all the protocols, you know, how are we going to meet the number of people this basing the masks, you know, how could we work with and we were essential as a lab, so we had to keep doing what we were doing. And it took me about a week to figure non stop work to figure out what our protocols were going to be, and the moment I turned them into my boss, then I got laid off. So what you want to do in a time of crisis is you want to let go of the the general manager, the safety manager, the quality manager and the Chief Scientist, because those are four people that you don't need during times of stress or challenge or crisis. On the plus side for me, getting laid off was a bad hour. It hurt my pride, but after an hour, I realized that all the things that I'd been stressing about for years trying to run this business were no longer my problem. Yeah, and I found that it was a tremendous weight lifted off my shoulders to not feel responsible for every problem and challenge that that business had.   Michael Hingson ** 39:14 And that's always a good blessing when you when you figure that out and don't worry about the the issues anymore. That's a good thing. It was certainly   Scott Hanton ** 39:25 good for me. Yeah, so I'm not going to recommend that people go get laid off. No world to get fired. But one problem that I had is because Paula and I worked to create that business, I sort of behaved like an owner, but was treated like an employee. And my recommendation to people is, remember, you're an employee, find some personal boundaries that protect you from the stress of the business, because you're not going to be rewarded or treated like an owner.   Michael Hingson ** 39:58 Yeah, because you're not because. Or not.   Scott Hanton ** 40:01 So I got laid off. It was in the height of the pandemic. So, you know, I'm too busy of a human being to sort of sit in a rocking chair and watch the birds fly by. That's not my style or my speed. So I started a consulting business, and that was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed doing the consulting work, but I learned something really important about myself, and that's that while I can sell and I can be an effective salesperson, I don't like selling, and as a company of one, when I didn't sell, I didn't make any money, yeah, and so I needed to figure out something else to do, because I really hated selling, and I wasn't doing it. I was procrastinating, and that made the business be unpredictable and very choppy   Michael Hingson ** 40:51 in that company of one, that guy who was working for you wasn't really doing all that you wanted.   Scott Hanton ** 40:56 Exactly the Yeah, you know me as the founder, was giving me as the salesman, a poor performance review was not meeting objectives. So I had a long time volunteer relationship with lab manager magazine. I had been writing articles for them and speaking for them in webinars and in conferences for a long time, probably more than 10 years, I would say, and they asked me as a consultant to produce a a to a proposal to create the lab manager Academy. So the the founder and owner of the the company, the lab X Media Group, you really saw the value of an academy, and they needed it done. They needed it done. They couldn't figure it out themselves. So I wrote the proposal. I had a good idea of how to do it, but I was new to consulting, and I struggled with, how do I get paid for this? And I had four ideas, but I didn't like them, so I slept on it, and in the morning I had a fifth, which said, hire me full time. I sent in the proposal. An hour later, I had a phone call. A week later, I had a job, so that worked out fantastic. And I've really enjoyed my time at lab manager magazine. Great people, fun work. It's really interesting to me to be valued for what I know rather than for what I can do. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:23 the two relate. But still, it does need to be more about what you know, what you really bring, as opposed to what you can do, because what you can do in general probably is an offshoot of what you know.   Scott Hanton ** 42:38 So this gives me the opportunity to help lots of people. So on the outside of the company, I'm writing articles, creating courses, giving talks to help lab managers. Because I was a lab manager for a long time, yeah, over 20 years, and I know what those challenges are. I know how hard that job is, and I know how many decisions lab managers need to make, and it's wonderful to be able to share my experience and help them, and I am motivated to help them. So was it hard? Oh, go ahead, on the inside, I'm literally an internal subject matter expert, and so I can coach and teach and help my colleagues with what's the science? What do lab managers really think? How do we pitch this so that it resonates with lab managers, and I think that helps make all of our products better and more successful.   Michael Hingson ** 43:31 So was it hard? Well, I guess best way to put it is that, was it really hard to switch from being a scientist to being a lab manager and then going into being a subject matter expert and really out of the laboratory. So   Scott Hanton ** 43:48 people ask me all the time, Scott, don't you miss being in the lab and doing experiments? And my answer is, I miss being in the lab. And I do miss being in the lab. You know, on very stressful days at Intertech, I'd go in the lab and I'd do an experiment, yeah, because it was fun, and I had more control over the how the experiment was run and what I would learn from it than I did running a business. But the flip side of that is, I do experiments all the time. What I learned as the general manager of a business was the scientific method works. Let's data hypothesis. Let's figure out how to test it. Let's gather data, and let's see if the hypothesis stands or falls. And we ran a business that way, I think, pretty successfully. And even now, in in media and publishing, we still run experiments all the time. And it's kind of funny that most of my editorial colleagues that I work with, they think my favorite word is experiment. My favorite word is still why, but we talk all the time now about doing experiments, and that was a new thing for them, but now we can do continual improvement more in a more dedicated way, and we do it a lot faster. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 45:00 yeah. So what's the hardest thing you think about being a lab manager?   Scott Hanton ** 45:06 I think the hardest thing about let me answer that with two. I'm not going to be able to narrow it down to one, so I'll give you two. The first one is you transform, maybe one day to the next, from really being in control of your science and working with whether it's animals or rocks or electrons or chemicals, whatever you're working with, having a great degree of knowledge and a lot of control, and the next day, you're hurting cats. And so it's about that transition from having control over your destiny to influencing people to get the work done, and working with people instead of working with experiments, that's really hard. The second is, as a lab manager, there's endless decisions, and so combating decision fatigue is a big deal, and everybody in the lab depends upon you for the decisions you make. And it's not that every decision has to be perfect, you know, that's just a different failure mode if you try to make perfect decisions, but every decision needs to be made promptly. And as a scientist, I could always make more data in order to make a better decision, but as a lab manager, I would often only have maybe 40 or 50% of the data I wanted, and a decision had to be made. And getting comfortable making decisions in the face of uncertainty is really hard.   Michael Hingson ** 46:29 So certainly, being a lab manager or Well, dealing with managers in the way we're talking about it here, has to be very stressful. How do you how do you cope with the stress?   Scott Hanton ** 46:42 So I think ways to cope with the stress successfully is, first of all, you've got to take care of yourself. You know, we've all flown on airplanes, and what is the safety person in the aisle or on the video? Do oxygen masks will fall from the ceiling, and what do we do with them? We put them on before we help somebody else, right? We all know that. But in the workplace, especially as a manager, it's hard to remember that as we care for our team and try and take care of our team, there might not be enough time or energy or capacity left to take care of ourselves, but if we don't fill that gas tank every day doing something, then we can't help our team. And so one way to deal with the stress is to make sure that you take care of yourself. So   Michael Hingson ** 47:28 what do you do? How do you deal with that? So   Scott Hanton ** 47:31 for me, ways that I can reinvigorate is one. I like being outside and get my hands dirty. So I'm not really a gardener, but I call myself a yard dinner. So I grow grass and I grow flowers, and I trim trees, and I want to go outside, and I want to see immediate return on my effort, and I want it to be better than when I started. And it's good if I have to clean from under my fingernails when I'm doing it. Another thing I like to do is I play all kinds of games I'm happy to play, sorry, with little kids, or I'll play complicated strategy games with people who want to sit at a table for three or four hours at a time. Yeah? And that allows my brain to spin and to work but on something completely different. Yeah. And another thing that's been important for me, especially when I was a lab manager is to be involved in youth coaching, so I coached kids soccer and basketball and baseball teams, and it's just beautiful to be out there on a field with a ball, with kids. And you know, the worries of the world just aren't there. The kids don't know anything about them. And it's fun to work with the ones who are really good, but it's equally fun to work with the ones who have never seen the ball before, and to help them do even the most basic things. And that kind of giving back and paying it forward, that sort of stuff fills my tank.   Michael Hingson ** 48:51 Yeah, I empathize a lot with with that. For me, I like to read. I've never been much of a gardener, but I also collect, as I mentioned before, old radio shows, and I do that because I'm fascinated by the history and all the things I learned from what people did in the 2030s, 40s and 50s, being on radio, much Less getting the opportunity to learn about the technical aspects of how they did it, because today it's so different in terms of how one edits, how one processes and deals with sounds and so on, but it's but it's fun to do something just totally different than way maybe what your normal Job would be, and and I do love to interact with with people. I love to play games, too. I don't get to do nearly as much of it as I'd like, but playing games is, is a lot of fun,   Scott Hanton ** 49:52 and I agree, and it it's fun, it's diverting, it's it helps me get into a flow so that I'm focused on. Me on one thing, and I have no idea how much time has gone by, and I don't really care. You know, people who play games with me might question this. I don't really care if I win or lose. Certainly I want to win, but it's more important to me that I play well, and if somebody plays better, good for   Michael Hingson ** 50:14 them, great. You'll learn from it. Exactly. Do you play   Scott Hanton ** 50:18 chess? I have played chess. I've played a lot of chess. What I've learned with chess is that I'm not an excellent I'm a good player, but not an excellent player. And when I run into excellent players, they will beat me without even breaking a sweat.   Michael Hingson ** 50:34 And again, in theory, you learn something from that.   Scott Hanton ** 50:37 What I found is that I don't really want to work that hard and yeah. And so by adding an element of chance or probability to the game, the people who focus on chess, where there are known answers and known situations, they get thrown off by the uncertainty of the of the flip the card or roll the dice. And my brain loves that uncertainty, so I tend to thrive. Maybe it's from my time in the lab with elements of uncertainty, where the chess players wilt under elements of uncertainty, and it's again, it's back to our strengths, right? That's something that I'm good at, so I'm gonna go do it. I've   Michael Hingson ** 51:20 always loved Trivial Pursuit. That's always been a fun game that I enjoy playing. I   Scott Hanton ** 51:25 do love Trivial Pursuit. I watch Jeopardy regularly. A funny story, when we moved into our new house in Pennsylvania, it was a great neighborhood. Loved the neighbors there. When we first moved in, they invited my wife and I to a game night. Excellent. We love games. We're going to play Trivial Pursuit. Awesome like Trivial Pursuit. We're going to play as couples. Bad idea, right? Let's play boys against the girls, or, let's say, random draws. No, we're playing as couples. Okay, so we played as couples. Helen and I won every game by a large margin. We were never invited back for game night. Yeah, invited back for lots of other things, but not game night.   Michael Hingson ** 52:06 One of the things that, and I've talked about it with people on this podcast before, is that all too often, when somebody reads a question from a trivial pursuit card, an answer pops in your head, then you went, Oh, that was too easy. That can't be the right answer. So you think about it, and you answer with something else, but invariably, that first answer was always the correct answer.   Scott Hanton ** 52:32 Yes, I'm I have learned to trust my intuition. Yeah. I learned, as a research scientist, that especially in talking to some of my peers, who are very dogmatic, very step by step scientists. And they lay out the 20 steps to that they felt would be successful. And they would do one at a time, one through 20. And that made them happy for me, I do one and two, and then I'd predict where that data led me, and I do experiment number seven, and if it worked, I'm off to eight. And so I they would do what, one step at a time, one to 20, and I'd sort of do 127, 1420, yeah. And that I learned that that intuition was powerful and valuable, and I've learned to trust it. And in my lab career, it served me really well. But also as a manager, it has served me well to trust my intuition, and at least to listen to it. And if I need to analyze it, I can do that, but I'm going to listen to it,   Michael Hingson ** 53:31 and that's the important thing, because invariably, it's going to give you useful information, and it may be telling you not what to do, but still trusting it and listening to it is so important, I've found that a lot over the years,   Scott Hanton ** 53:47 Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book called Blink, where he talks about the power of the subconscious, and his claim is that the subconscious is 100,000 times smarter than our conscious brain, and I think when we are trusting our intuition, we're tapping into that super computer that's in our skulls. If you want to learn more, read blank. It's a great story.   Michael Hingson ** 54:10 I hear you. I agree. How can people learn to be better leaders and managers?   Scott Hanton ** 54:18 So I think it's there's really three normal ways that people do this. One is the power of experiment, right? And I did plenty of that, and I made tons of errors. It's painful. It's irritating, trial and error, but I used to tell people at Intertech that I was the general manager because I'd made the most mistakes, which gave me the most opportunity to learn. It was also partly because a lot of my peers wanted nothing to do with the job. You know, they wanted to be scientists. Another way is we, we get coached and mentored by people around us, and that is awesome if you have good supervisors, and it's tragic if you have bad supervisors, because you don't know any better and you take for granted. That the way it's been done is the way it needs to be done, and that prevents us from being generative leaders and questioning the status quo. So there's problems there, too. And I had both good and bad supervisors during my career. I had some awful, toxic human beings who were my supervisors, who did damage to me, and then I had some brilliant, caring, empathetic people who raised me up and helped me become the leader that I am today. So it's a bit of a crap shoot. The third way is go out and learn it from somebody who's done it right, and that's why we generated the lab manager Academy to try to codify all the mistakes I made and what are the learnings from them? And when I'm talking with learners who are in the program, it's we have a huge positive result feedback on our courses. And what I talk to people about who take our courses is I'm glad you appreciate what we've put together here. That makes me feel good. I'm glad it's helping you. But when these are my mistakes and the answers to my mistakes, when you make mistakes, you need to in the future, go make some courses and teach people what the lessons were from your mistakes and pay it forward. Yeah. So I recommend getting some training.   Michael Hingson ** 56:17 What's the difference between management and leadership?   Scott Hanton ** 56:21 I particularly love a quote from Peter Drucker. So Peter Drucker was a professor in California. You may have heard of him before.   Michael Hingson ** 56:29 I have. I never had the opportunity to meet him, but I read.   Scott Hanton ** 56:34 I didn't either material. I've read his books, and I think he is an insightful human being, yes. So the quote goes like this, management is doing things right. Leadership is doing the right things. So as a technical manager, there's a bunch of things we have to get right. We have to get safety right. We have to get quality right. There's an accuracy and precision that we need to get right for our outcomes and our results. Those are management tasks, but leadership is about doing the right things. And the interesting thing about that definition is it doesn't require a title or a role or any level of authority. So anyone can be a leader if you're consistently doing the right things, you are exhibiting leadership, and that could be from the person sweeping the floors or the person approving the budget, or anyone in between.   Michael Hingson ** 57:33 Yeah, I've heard that quote from him before, and absolutely agree with it. It makes a whole lot of sense.   Scott Hanton ** 57:41 Other definitions that I've seen trying to distinguish management and leadership tend to use the words manage and lead, and I don't like definitions that include the words that they're trying to define. They become circular at some level. This one, I think, is clear about it, what its intention is, and for me, it has worked through my career, and so the separation is valuable. I have authority. I'm the manager. I have accountability to get some stuff right, but anyone can lead, and everyone can lead, and the organization works so much better when it's full of leaders   Michael Hingson ** 58:21 and leaders who are willing to recognize when they bring something to the table, or if someone else can add value in ways that they can't, to be willing to let the other individual take the leadership position for a while.   Scott Hanton ** 58:40 Absolutely, and you know that really comes down to building an environment and a culture that's supportive. And so Amy Edmondson has written extensively on the importance of psychological safety, and that psychological safety hinges on what you just said, right? If the guy who sweeps the floor has an observation about the organization. Do they feel safe to go tell the person in charge that this observation, and if they feel safe, and if that leader is sufficiently vulnerable and humble to listen with curiosity about that observation, then everybody benefits, yeah, and the more safe everyone feels. We think about emotion. Emotional safety is they anyone can bring their best self to work, and psychological safety is they can contribute their ideas and observations with no threat of retaliation, then we have an environment where we're going to get the best out of everybody, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 59:46 which is the way it it really ought to be. And all too often we don't necessarily see it, but that is the way it ought   Scott Hanton ** 59:53 to be. Too many people are worried about credit, or, I don't know, worried about things that I don't see. Yeah, and they waste human potential, right? They they don't open their doors to hire anybody. They they judge people based on what they look like instead of who they are, or they box people in into roles, and don't let them flourish and Excel. And whenever you're doing those kinds of things, you're wasting human potential. And businesses, science and business are too hard to waste human potential. We need to take advantage of everything that people are willing to give. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:33 we've been doing this for quite a while already today. So I'm going to ask as a kind of a last question, what, what advice do you want to leave for people to think about going forward in their lives and in their careers?   Scott Hanton ** 1:00:48 So I was participating in a LinkedIn chat today where a professor was asking the question, what sort of advice would you wish you got when you were 21 Okay, so it was an interesting thread, and there was one contributor to the thread who said something I thought was particularly valuable. And she said, attitude matters. Attitude matters. We can't control what happens to us, but we can control how we deal with it and how we respond, right? And so I think if we can hold our attitude as our accountability, and we can direct our strengths and our talents to applying them against the challenges that the business or the science or the lab or the community faces, and we can go in with some positive attitude and positive desire for for change and improvement, and we can be vulnerable and humble enough to accept other people's ideas and to interact through discussion and healthy debate. Then everything's better. I also like Kelleher his quote he was the co founder of Southwest Airlines, and he said, when you're hiring, hire for attitude, train for skill. Attitude is so important. So I think, understand your attitude. Bring the attitude you want, the attitude you value, the attitude that's that's parallel to your core values. And then communicate to others about their attitude and how it's working or not working for them.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:31 And hopefully, if they have a positive or good enough attitude, they will take that into consideration and grow because of it absolutely   Scott Hanton ** 1:02:41 gives everybody the chance to be the best they can be.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:47 Well, Scott, this has been wonderful. If people want to reach out to you, how can they do that?   Scott Hanton ** 1:02:51 So LinkedIn is great. I've provided Michael my LinkedIn connection. So I would love to have people connect to me on LinkedIn or email. S Hanson at lab manager.com love to have interactions with the folks out there.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:08 Well, I want to thank you for spending so much time. We'll have to do more of this.   Scott Hanton ** 1:03:13 Michael, I really enjoyed it. This was a fun conversation. It was stimulating. You asked good questio

你有沒有想過，聲音也能成為職場最有力的武器？一場簡報、一句回應，說得對，別人就記住你；說得平，努力常被忽略。在科技業講求效率與專業的職場中，說話的吸引力與說服力，正在悄悄影響你的影響力。本集邀請知名廣播主持人、金鐘典禮司儀與配音員——歐馬克，分享他如何運用聲音打造個人品牌、轉型開課，甚至實現財務自由。他也將深入解析：「什麼樣的說話方式，讓人想聽下去？」、「科技人常見的表達盲點是什麼？」以及「如何培養有影響力的聲音表達力」。從聲音出發，讓說話不只是工具，而是你最好的職場資產。敬請鎖定本集節目。IC之音行銷企劃AI金融科技，如何影響國內外投資市場？關稅戰爆發、貨幣匯率變動，如何配置資產，穩定避險？IC之音　i Forum國際資產論壇—關稅戰、匯率變，談AI與投資避險邀請 台灣ETF創始者，元大投信董事長 劉宗聖清大計量財務金融系副教授，兼任政大國際金融學院 韓傳祥分享國內外ETF趨勢、主動式ETF等與AI金融科技的創新走向。現場並匯聚國際不動產與移民專家，帶來海外發展的多元趨勢與機會。八月三十號 星期六早上九點 新竹國賓大飯店11樓竹萱廳免費入場，座位有限！快上IC之音官網報名！即刻報名:https://www.digitimes.com.tw/seminar/iForum_20250830/活動專線 0800-222-975 Podcast廣告合作請洽：sharon.wang@ic975.com03-5163975分機208 王小姐

Today we're talking about something that's top-of-mind for a lot of you: closing the reliability gaps in increasingly complex analog and mixed-signal IC designs—and doing it earlier, faster, and more systematically.As designs become more heterogeneous and integration of IP blocks more intricate, traditional simulation and ERC tools often aren't enough. They're reactive by nature, catching issues too late in the flow—when rework is costly, and design intent is harder to trace.That's why “shift-left” verification has become more than just a buzzword. It's a strategic necessity. And today's conversation is all about one of the tools helping to make that shift actionable: Siemens' Insight Analyzer.

KDDI、契約時の本人確認を強化　マイナカードや免許のICチップ読み取り開始。　KDDIと沖縄セルラー電話は8月から、店頭での携帯電話契約時にマイナンバーカードや運転免許証のICチップを読み取って本人確認書類の真贋を判定する仕組みを導入する。書類の偽造や第三者による“なりすまし契約”への対策として、8月1日から一部店舗で順次導入を開始。2026年度内をめどに、au Style／auショップ／UQスポット全店舗での導入を目指す。

Javier Rodríguez del Burgo nos trae esta semana el libro "No cosas" de Byung Chul Han, el disco "La costa de los mosquitos " de Travis Birds y, por último , la película "Maixabel" dirigida por Icíar Bollaín

au／UQ mobileが店舗契約に本「人確認書類のICチップ読み取り」を導入　8月1日から順次。　KDDIと沖縄セルラー電話は8月1日から順次店頭契約時における本人確認書類のICチップ読み取りを順次開始する。本人確認強化を目的としており、2026年度内にau／UQ mobileブランドを取り扱う全店舗（au Style／auショップ／UQスポットを含む）で対応を完了する予定だ。

If the AI Agent hype ends up being real, how will businesses manage AI Agents from the perspective of people vs. non-people? SHOW: 944SHOW TRANSCRIPT: The Cloudcast #944 TranscriptSHOW VIDEO: https://youtube.com/@TheCloudcastNET CLOUD NEWS OF THE WEEK: http://bit.ly/cloudcast-cnotwCHECK OUT OUR NEW PODCAST: "CLOUDCAST BASICS"SHOW SPONSORS:[VASION] Vasion Print eliminates the need for print servers by enabling secure, cloud-based printing from any device, anywhere. Get a custom demo to see the difference for yourself.[FCTR] Try FCTR.io (that's F-C-T-R dot io) free for 60 days. Modern security demands modern solutions. Check out Fctr's Tako AI, the first AI agent for Okta, on their website[DoIT] Visit doit.com (that's d-o-i-t.com) to unlock intent-aware FinOps at scale with DoiT Cloud Intelligence.SHOW NOTES:Batch jobs vs Cron jobsRobotic Process AutomationWhat is AIOps?AI Platform goes rogue, deletes company database (Replit)How do consultants think about AI AgentsWHAT IF AI AGENTS ARE SUCCESSFUL?What are our expectations of AI Agents? How do we treat AI Agents? How do we organize AI Agents? How do we manage AI Agents?Will we have Junior and Senior AI Agents? Will we see internal competition for managers trying to get AI Agent budget? Will companies measure % AI Agent for projects? Will we see managers trying to take their agents with them if they leave a company? How “owns” the agent?FEEDBACK?Email: show at the cloudcast dot netTwitter/X: @cloudcastpodBlueSky: @cloudcastpod.bsky.socialInstagram: @cloudcastpodTikTok: @cloudcastpod

Hello and welcome to episode 72 of The DX Mentor, all about the ARRL DXCC program. I'm Bill, AJ8B. Between the DX Mentor Facebook page, the weekly DX column in the Ohio Section Journal, the DX section of This Week in Amateur Radio podcast, and the This Week in DX weekly YouTube episodes, I have received quite a few emailsover the past months about a couple of topics. One of those topics is the DXCC program. If this is the first time you are joining us, Welcome! We have a back catalog covering many aspects of DX. Please check us out. If you like what you find, please subscribe, like, and share to always be notified about upcoming events!    Another way to keep in touch and to see what we are up to is via the DX Mentor Facebook page. I will be posting aboutupcoming podcasts as well as other DX events so please follow us.   I would like to pass along a fewcomments that we have received regarding some past episodes. I received this about the Amelia Earhart episode, “Fantastic episode, almost journalistic! Really enjoy these and it's not only now but in the future. Thank you again.” Regarding the interview with VA3MW, a listener commented “Loved the show, thank you. Ps. You should do a side show on old computer, loved hearing about the NORAD computer!!!”Concerning last weeks edition about QSLing, K6GAB sent me a comment saying “Thanks for this, very interesting!” Finally, I received this about the QRZ.cominterview with KF8KI “A fascinating insight into QRZ and Steve's other interests! Thank you all”As you can tell, I do read the comments and apply them where I can. Please keep your thoughts and suggestions coming!Our guests are Mike, W0VTT, Bernie, W3UR, and Joe, W8GEX.  In this episode we will discuss all things regarding the ARRL DXCC program. Let's get started!   Resources mentioned include:Southwest Ohio DX Assoc. https://www.swodxa.orgARRL Logbook of the World http://www.arrl.org/logbook-of-the-worldQSL Display https://www.aj8b.com/qsl-display-board/Southwest Ohio DX Assoc. https://www.swodxa.orgDaily DX https://www.dailydx.com/DX Engineering https://www.dxengineering.com/Icom https://www.icomamerica.com/ IC-905 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-905/ IC-9700 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-9700/ IC-7610 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-7610/ IC-7300 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-7300/           

Greetings from the East,Deflagration results from the partial burning of fuel at subsonic speeds inside an IC engine eventually giving rise to the knocking and damage to the cylinder. The size of a cylinder with a bore-to-stroke ratio is kept in check to reduce such partial combustion. Such a small variant can cause innumerable diseases in the air and can be a chief source of air pollution. Modern science speculates numerous way-outs and postulates scientific theories from time to time to reduce this combustion defect from moving motor engines. H2O is a combination of 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom. Hydrogen can be extracted and hydroxyl ions can be safely discarded. This way water can be the combustion source rather than an extinguishing agent of fire. Sounds funny but by burning hydrogen itself we can reduce emissions as hydrogen burns itself whereas oxygen helps in burning any fuel may it be wood, charcoal, or fossil fuel.Gods are the happiest when the children are at playIn our society, right from brushing our teeth in the morning to not wearing dirty clothes, we are taught to remain clean. This impactful behavior can be exercised time and time again by rightfully washing our hands each time we touch something unhygienic. Let us start the new masonic year of 2024 by washing our hands top, bottom, and between the knuckles, as scientific study has suggested, this basic habit can ward off the majority of bacterial and virus threats. We intend to have a safe year ahead and possibly wait to hear how we can use water as a fuel. Sounds funny, most inventions were that way. Electric flights with charging done wirelessly can and will be the target to keep our plant happy. Rain or shine we will keep on making new Master Masons, regardless.Shivam Sharma, HAMaster

As i make my way to my very first SummerSlam next weekend at MetLife Stadium, I thought it would be fitting I cover the first time SummerSlam made its way to the Garden State and East Rutherford, NJ!!! Hulkster and the Beefer tangle with Macho Man and Zeus, Warrior and the Ravishing One battle for the IC title, Dusty brings his polka dots, Andre the Giant, Demolition, Roddy Piper, a bad ass 6 man tag with The Rockers, Harts vs Busters,  all the usual suspects from 1989 are packed into this SummerSlam!!! Plus I run down this years SummerSlam card and unfortunately will share my thoughts on the devastating news of the untimely passing of my childhood hero and a hero to so many millions around the world, the late Terry "Hulk Hogan" Bollea!!! 

Dr. John sits down with nurse practitioner Ruth Kriz to talk about her personal and professional journey with interstitial cystitis (IC). After years of misdiagnoses and living with chronic pain, Ruth uncovered what traditional medicine often misses — hidden infections, biofilms, and genetic factors that make healing harder. She explains how advanced testing, targeted treatments, and even vitamin D play a role in getting to the root of IC and other chronic urinary issues. Ruth also shares how to find practitioners who really understand these complex conditions and can help guide the healing process.   Key Takeaways To Tune In For: (03:31) – What finally worked: finding answers and hope (04:58) – The hidden pathogens most tests don't catch (09:10) – Why traditional urine tests fall short (17:34) – How your genes can make infections stick around (19:40) – Ruth's personalized, targeted treatment approach (23:02) – Why vitamin D matters more than you think (29:20) – How to find practitioners who actually get it   Resources talked about in this episode: Website: www.ruthkriz.com  

Icónica, robusta y llena de historia: la damajuana no es solo un envase, es una parte esencial del ADN del vino argentino. En este episodio nos sumergimos en su origen legendario y su rol en la vida cotidiana de generaciones de consumidores.Desde la reina Juana de Nápoles hasta los gauchos de La Pampa, repasamos anécdotas, usos y transformaciones de este envase que supo ser símbolo de abundancia y practicidad. También hablamos del lado oscuro: el caso Torraga y la tragedia de las damajuanas adulteradas que estremeció al país en los años ‘90.Si les gustó el episodio me sirve muchísimo que se lo compartan a sus amigos y conocidos.Además, pueden calificar Bebedor Frecuente en Spotify o en su app de podcast favorita. Hasta el próximo episodio! Salú!- Seguime en Instagram ⁠@nicolasorsini⁠- Encontrá más info sobre vinos en el blog ⁠nicolasorsini.com 

In this explosive episode, we analyze the latest document release from DNI Tulsi Gabbard, revealing Obama's order for a new Intelligence Community Assessment (ICA) alleging Russia hacked the 2016 election to favor Trump. Declassified files expose lowered IC standards to craft this narrative, despite Obama's denials. We explore the Washington Post's role in leaking fabricated intelligence to support the hoax. Meanwhile, Sen. Dick Durbin claims over 1,000 FBI agents are reviewing Epstein files to remove Trump's name. In other news, activist judges remove Alina Habba, prompting AG Pam Bondi to fire her replacement. Marc Elias loses his Wyoming voter ID lawsuit, and the DOJ fires the wife of an anti-ICE app creator. The U.S. economy booms with new trade deals, and the Olympic Committee ensures only females compete in women's events. Join us for these critical updates! Please take a moment to rate and review the show and then share the episode on social media. You can find me on Facebook, X, Instagram, GETTR,  TRUTH Social and YouTube by searching for The Alan Sanders Show. And, consider becoming a sponsor of the show by visiting my Patreon page!!

Hilaritas guest host Zach West chats with Mavericks of the Mind co-interviewers, David Jay Brown and Rebecca McClen Novick about consciousness, deja vu, lucid dreaming and more. • • • Mavericks of the Mind: https://www.hilaritaspress.com/portfolio-item/mavericks-of-the-mind/    Rebecca McClen Novick: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Rebecca-McClen-Novick/author/B001IZR6RQ   David Jay Brown: https://www.amazon.com/stores/David-Jay-Brown/author/B001K8SEM2 • • • Zack West's Substack: https://i2c2musicart.substack.com/ Zack's I²C²:: https://zachwesti2c2.com/ All the Hilaritas Press Podcasts: https://www.hilaritaspress.com/podcasts/ Host Mike Gathers: https://linktr.ee/mgathers23 Producer/Engineer Richard Rasa: http://www.pelorian.com/rasa.html

This week's Extra Alarm insights come to us from Deputy Chief Vince Bettinazzi, addressing the critical steps for managing a situation where the incident commander (IC) becomes incapacitated. Bettinazzi emphasizes the importance of preparing for such scenarios, including training and designating backups. He explores the impacts on fireground operations and various strategies for continuity of command, such as transferring responsibilities to other battalion chiefs, safety officers or rapid intervention team officers. The need for clear identification and communication from the IC is highlighted, along with practical solutions to maintain command structure effectively. The episode serves as a prompt for fire departments to develop or review their contingency plans for unexpected IC incapacitation.

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, on a gracious hello to you, wherever you happen to be today, I am your host, Mike Hingson, and you are listening or watching unstoppable mindset today, our guest is Angela Lewis, and Angela is going to tell us a lot about basketball. That's because she played she played overseas, she has coached and just any number of things relating to basketball, but she's also helped athletes. She is an author, and I'm not going to say anymore. I'd rather she brag about herself. So Angela, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Angela Lewis ** 02:00 Michael, thank you so much for having me. It's so excited to chat with you.   Michael Hingson ** 02:05 Well, tell us a little bit about kind of the early Angela growing up and all that.   Angela Lewis ** 02:11 Well, I am six foot one inches tall. I've been this tall since I was 12 years old.   Michael Hingson ** 02:17 Hey, you stopped   Angela Lewis ** 02:18 growing huh? I stopped I've been this tall for 30 years. I know it could have spread out a bit. I could have gotten a few inches a year over, you know, time, but no, I grew really fast and stopped. But at six foot, one and 12 years old, I was really uncomfortable and felt out of place most often. And one day, a coach saw me and asked me to come and play on the basketball team. And Michael, basketball found me. I wasn't looking to play. I wasn't looking for a team, hoping to get an nio deal like you know, my kids are doing these days, because it's available. No basketball found me, and it really helped transform me into the person I am today.   Michael Hingson ** 03:03 How? How? So? Why was that   Angela Lewis ** 03:07 I was really I was very insecure, very uncomfortable. I felt really out of place. And basketball gave me this tribe of people who there were other tall girls. I learned how to work really hard. And although I was tall, people thought I was really good or I should be good. So I learned how to work through like not being really good at something, to ultimately playing professionally. And so that really sticks with me today, and learning how to just persevere.   Michael Hingson ** 03:40 Well you, you did really well at basketball. Obviously, I assume at least part of it had to do with height, but there had to be a whole lot more to it than that. You scored over 1000 points, lots of rebounds and so on. So it had to be more than height, though, right? 100%   Angela Lewis ** 03:57 definitely more than height, because I wasn't being I wasn't very good. I wasn't good at all. I was new to the game when I started, and so I missed a ton of shots. I had to learn how to work hard, how to get back up after being knocked down, and really not feeling good the entire time I'm playing. But learning, you know, listening to coaches, all of that played a big role in my overall development and willingness to get up early and get to the gym when no one else was there. That stuff pays off and   Michael Hingson ** 04:30 practice, yeah. Why is it that some people who score lots of points make really great shots are not necessarily good free throwers,   Angela Lewis ** 04:42 free throws. Shooting great free throws requires a different level of concentration. Everyone everything is stopped, everyone's focused on you, and some of it is just repetition and practice. There are people like Shaq who did shoot great from the free throw line. But of course. Incredibly, incredibly dominant.   Michael Hingson ** 05:02 Yeah. Well, he was one of the ones I was thinking of because it's, you know, I don't, needless to say, play basketball, but it just seems to me it ought to be reasonably easy for people who are great shooters to be able to do great free throwing as well. But that's not the case. And I kind of figured, and I think I've heard from a couple of other people, it's a whole different skill, and just because you're a wonderful shooter, it doesn't necessarily at all mean you'll be a good free thrower.   Angela Lewis ** 05:31 No, no, it doesn't. It doesn't. And Shaq was just a unique human in terms of his size and the size of his hand. So Shaq didn't shoot a lot of jump shots. He was often dunking on people or shooting layups or something a bit closer to the basket, where the percentages are even higher than at the free throw line. So it made it a little a little different in his case,   Michael Hingson ** 05:52 well, and you also and then had other people like wilt, Chamberlain, Kareem, Abdul, Jabbar and so many other people. And now what I really love is that we're starting to see that women are being appreciated. I mean, Caitlin Clark and so many other people are and Paige Becker, right? Who you mentioned earlier, Becker, and that is great to see, and I'm glad that that we're starting to see women come into their own, and I hope that that will include, as time goes on, better compensation, so that salaries are similar with male counterparts, because the people who are excellent at the game on from either Sex deserve it,   Angela Lewis ** 06:40 agreed, and it is. It's incredible, Michael, as you said, to see so much visibility and so much attention on women's sports, I think we hit a perfect storm for the women's game with three things, social media. So now you have these young women who have all these followings, who have all these followers, and it just makes sense for brands to align with them, to sell more products, but then also the n, i, L deal is the perfect storm. Now the players can get paid off their name, image and likeness, and it's going to end. The end the controversy with Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese and the national championship a few years ago that just created so much of a media frenzy that it really has helped increase the visibility of women's basketball and other women's sports and for that   Michael Hingson ** 07:29 matter, yeah. Now are women will women's basketball, or is women's basketball in the Olympics?   Angela Lewis ** 07:36 Yes, yes, won the gold this year, Yes, yep. Has won the gold. The USA team is one to go. Yeah, consistently,   Michael Hingson ** 07:45 as it should be, we're we're not prejudice, are we?   Angela Lewis ** 07:49 No, not at all. No, not at all, at all. No, definitely not bias. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 07:55 right? Well, tell me, um, so you were tall at a very young age, as it were, but obviously you had, you had insecurities, but you dealt with them. Was it all because of the basketball or what? What really made you comfortable in your skin?   Angela Lewis ** 08:14 I think what made me comfortable is there were, there's who I was on the court, and then there's who I was off the court. My family, I'm so grateful to come from a family that's incredibly supportive. I had older brothers who played so although they would push me, you know, to be tougher, because I wasn't very tough. Michael, I'm the kid that looked at the butterflies and the squirrels. I was like forced to be aggressive and competitive. But my parents, my mom and dad, are both from Mississippi, and they grew up in a really challenging time, and so I think what helped shaped me was the humility and love from family   Michael Hingson ** 08:58 and comparing notes today. Who's the better basketball player, you or your brothers   Angela Lewis ** 09:05 me, by far. Okay, they may say something different, but if you know, if we just look at the stats, statistically speaking, you know what? Definitely win that one. What do they do today? One of them is, one of them is works at both of them work in education. One is like the associate superintendent of a school district in the St Louis area. The other one is a college professor. So they do, they do, well, I'm proud of them.   Michael Hingson ** 09:37 That's cool. Well, you know, but, but you, you, you did have supportive parents, and that's so important. I mean, I know, for for me, my parents rejected all the comments that doctors and others made when they discovered that I was blind and said, I ought to just be sent to a home. And my parents said, Absolutely not. And I totally i. Hmm, thank my parents for their attitudes, because it it really helped shape who I am today and why I'm able to function. So I, I agree with you, and I I'm glad that you had really good, supportive parents, because it had to be unusual for them to see a six foot one girl at the age of 12,   Angela Lewis ** 10:22 it was very unusual. My mom used to have to take my birth certificate with me to tournaments because people didn't believe that I was as young as I was. In addition, you know, I think Michael playing sports and anything that you're involved in doesn't just impact you and impacts your family as well, for those families who who choose to support their kids through whatever. So my family didn't travel at all, and we went to Memphis, Tennessee and Mount Bayou, Mississippi, because we have family members that live there. But it wasn't until I started playing sports where we started going other places. And so things opened up for not only myself, but for my family as well.   Michael Hingson ** 11:06 Well, it's always nice to have the opportunity to stretch and grow and experience new things   Angela Lewis ** 11:13 100% and it's not always comfortable, but it definitely helps us and shapes us differently   Michael Hingson ** 11:23 well, so you were an NCAA division one. You scored a lot of points. You clearly accomplished a great deal. What did you do that helped create the mindset that made that happen?   Angela Lewis ** 11:40 Environment makes a big difference who you choose to listen to. I feel like, when in any organization, whether it's a sports team or a business or even community organization, what created the mindset is listening to those coaches and those people who have already been through it, but also on like, when things are really hard, when there's preseason conditioning, or there's a report that's due, being willing to say, Okay, I know I don't feel like it, but I'm going to do it anyway. And knowing that when you make mistakes, I remember missing the shot to win a game against Cincinnati and being really down about it, but having a coach come to me and say, It's okay, you got to move on to the next game, the next play, being willing to keep going in spite of making mistakes, that creates that unstoppable mindset. It's not just you, it's the people in your circle as well who can help foster that for you.   Michael Hingson ** 12:36 So that's easy for a coach to say, but how did you internalize it and make that really a part of your psyche?   Angela Lewis ** 12:45 One of the ways that I internalized it, that's such a good question. Michael is visualizing like running through the play in my mind? Think watching the game film, because some of it, so much of growth happens. We can reflect on what didn't go right, what went right, and then be able to make those changes for the future.   Michael Hingson ** 13:10 Well, yeah, and I think introspection and internalization is such an important thing, and all too, many of us just don't, don't take that step back to analyze and think about what we're doing and why we're doing it and and how we're doing it, and what can we do better? And clearly, that's something that you did a fair amount of, and you got answers that worked for you.   Angela Lewis ** 13:38 It's essential in sport. I think that's one of the things that I carry over, is we were forced. I can't sit up here and act like I was introspective before, yeah, but by no means, it's you. You learn and train on what what works, and that's one of the things that really works. And introspection is is critical.   Michael Hingson ** 13:57 How would you take that beyond sports? I mean, clearly that helps you in sports, but I would assume that you would say it helps you in life in general, wouldn't you,   Angela Lewis ** 14:09 absolutely, especially when there's conflict. So for example, I had a situation in my family where I will where I essentially just broke down from giving so much, and I realized that, oh, once I once, I was able to step away from the situation and reflect, I was able to see how I could have communicated better. Oh, I could have created some better boundaries, or maybe I could have planned better. So, so there will always be tension. There's always the potential for conflict, but being able to reflect on it to make sure that you get better in the future is kind of how you can apply those apply that same process to life,   Michael Hingson ** 14:53 yeah, so on the basketball court and so on leaving this. Stats out of it. Do you think that people considered you a leader in terms of just being a team leader, as part of the team, but taking the lead? Or did you even think about that?   Angela Lewis ** 15:16 Oh, leadership is one of those, really, it's layered. So I think I was a leader, definitely a leader in terms of how hard I worked and I and I can say that my teammates respected how hard I worked at this age. Looking back at my, you know, 20 year old self, there are some other ways that I think I could have been a better leader in terms of communication, in terms of accountability, holding others accountable more, holding myself accountable more in some areas. So yes, I would say in terms of just the willingness to put in the work, I think I would definitely been considered a leader, despite the number of points that I scored, but scoring the points helped,   Michael Hingson ** 16:00 if you could go back and talk to your 20 year old self, what? What kinds of things would you tell her?   Angela Lewis ** 16:06 I would tell her. I would tell her three things. First, I would say, show yourself some grace. You already work hard like it's okay, it's okay to make mistakes. You are going to make mistakes. I took mistakes really hard. I would also say, get to know as many people as possible at your university and on your team and in the athletic department. What we know later is that relationships are everything, the relationships that you have, so be more intentional about relationships. And then I would also say, give yourself credit, because as an athlete, and you know, when you're pursuing something, you're never good enough, you're always pushing for the next thing. So I would have celebrated some of the wins a bit more.   Michael Hingson ** 16:52 Yeah, the the only thing to to be aware of, though, is to be careful and not let that, as you would say, go to your head and become egotistical about it. It's important to do. But there's, it's like the fastest gun in the West. There's always somebody faster,   Angela Lewis ** 17:10 yes, 100%   Michael Hingson ** 17:14 now, where did you go to? College?   Angela Lewis ** 17:16 St Louis University. Oh, okay, Billikens. So what made you go there? I went to St Louis University because it was close to home. That was part of it. There were a Nike school. I'm also like the brand of Nike, and it was a great institution. Academically, still is what is your family to be able communication?   Michael Hingson ** 17:39 Okay, that worked out. Well, yes, since being in office,   17:45 exactly so   Michael Hingson ** 17:49 you did you go beyond your bachelor's degree?   Angela Lewis ** 17:52 I did masters at St Louis University as well.   Michael Hingson ** 17:57 Okay, communication,   Angela Lewis ** 17:58 so, yes, okay,   Michael Hingson ** 18:00 and then what did you do after college?   Angela Lewis ** 18:04 After college, went to Germany and played basketball professionally. It was my first time traveling internationally and living abroad, which really changed the core of me.   Michael Hingson ** 18:16 Well, why did you decide to go professional for basketball. That's a little different than a degree in communications, but maybe not so much. But why did you, why did you decide to Go Pro? As it were,   Angela Lewis ** 18:30 it's a rare opportunity, very rare opportunity, to play professionally and to have the opportunity as something I dreamed of once I got to college, and then, honestly, Michael, I would have gone anywhere to play basketball. I love the game so much I would have gone anywhere, so I'm grateful that I had the opportunity.   Michael Hingson ** 18:51 How did the opportunity to go to Germany and play there come about? Were you approached? What happened?   Angela Lewis ** 18:56 It came about because I was looking for an agent, and one of my college coaches, my college the head coach, Jill pazzi, knew someone who had an agent in Germany, and we sent her my game film. We sent the agent my game film, and she said she wanted to represent me, and she had a team there that wanted me to come out and be on the team. And so after I graduated, it was kind of it was very much a waiting game to win it to a person. And so I was really excited when I found out about the opportunity.   Michael Hingson ** 19:37 That's cool. And how did you do compared to to other people on the team and so on? Were you still a high score? Were you still a leader or or not?   Angela Lewis ** 19:52 Michael Germany was really unique, because everyone on my team didn't speak English, so I did well. I. I did well. I scored double digits. Can't remember the exact average, but it was like around 15 or 16 points per game, and I did really well, and was a leader in that way. But it was completely it was a complete cultural shift because of the people from different parts of the world. So it took a different level of navigating than playing. Here.   Michael Hingson ** 20:21 Did you learn German?   Angela Lewis ** 20:24 I Yes, and no little bit yes and no a little bit, Michael, we were part of the contract. Was German classes, and I will never forget, I was in the German class with a woman from Russia who was on my team and a woman from Hungary who was on my team and I, the teacher, asked us to pronounce a word. I can't remember the word. All I remember is I attempted to pronounce the word, and everyone started laughing at me. And it was the first time in my life that I gained the sensitivity for people who attempt to speak another language, because it is really hard. I was so embarrassed, and I was like, Okay, I get it now. So my German is very minimal   Michael Hingson ** 21:11 well, and like a lot of things, if you had started to learn German or any language at a much younger age, you would have probably been a lot better off and more malleable and and learned how to adapt and have that second language, but you weren't learning it after college. So it was a different situation,   Angela Lewis ** 21:33 completely different. You're absolutely right. I did this basketball clinic in monies Columbia a few years ago, and although it was a little different than German, I was able to pick up on Spanish a bit more, and lived in Medellin, Colombia for a few years. But being immersed makes a difference for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 21:54 Yeah, immersion makes a makes a huge difference, because you're you're put in a position where you know you have to learn enough to be able to get by, and you   Angela Lewis ** 22:05 do, yes, well, you said that, I recommend it.   Michael Hingson ** 22:09 You said that going to Germany really changed your total core. How was that?   Angela Lewis ** 22:15 I knew that I would be okay anywhere I was in Germany before there was WhatsApp and zoom, and I was in Germany during the dial up days and the calling card days, yeah. And so being able to navigate the world at a time where you didn't have Google Translate really helped me be comfortable being in uncomfortable settings, because I went to university in the same place that I grew up, so it was my first time away from home in another country, and having to figure it out, and to do that at such a young age, really shifted who I was in relation to where I came from. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 23:02 so what did it what did it do to you? Ultimately,   Angela Lewis ** 23:07 ultimately, it allowed me to learn how to rely on others, people that I don't know, because I needed help just navigating how to get from one place to another. It created a sense of curiosity of other people, and a food and culture that didn't exist before, and a level of resilience. There were so many things that went wrong, like losing my bags, getting on the wrong train, getting almost being locked up. I mean, so many things that that went left in that experience that has taught me some resilience of having to continue to push through.   Michael Hingson ** 23:45 Yeah, I went to Israel for accessibe Two years ago, this coming August, and was at the corporate headquarters, and then a cab one day took me back to the hotel, but didn't drop me off at the front of the hotel. And so it was a totally strange area. And I remember even questioning, did they really drop me off at the hotel? But I realized that if I calm down, I can analyze this and figure it out, and I figured out what eventually happened. They didn't drop me off at the front of the hotel. They dropped me off at the entrance of the parking lot, which was on the well underground parking garage, which was on the side of the hotel. But the reality is that that we can do a lot of things if we just focus and don't panic.   Angela Lewis ** 24:38 Yes, ah, that's good advice. Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 24:44 go ahead.   Angela Lewis ** 24:46 Oh no, I was just gonna say being able to relax and control your emotional state really helps you make better decisions.   Michael Hingson ** 24:53 It does, and that's what it's really all about, which is also part of what. So being introspective and thinking about what you're doing is so important at night or whenever you can find the time to do it. And should find the time every day people should. But by doing that, you really look at yourself, and you look at how you react to different situations, and you you figure out, Oh, I could have done this. Or if I just did a little bit more of that, I would have been a better situation. We can teach ourselves so many things if we would choose to do that.   25:29 Yes, yes. 100%   Michael Hingson ** 25:33 well, so how long did you play basketball in Germany? I   Angela Lewis ** 25:38 played basketball in Germany for one season, and then came back to St Louis and got married, which is another that's another podcast, that's another interview, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 25:50 well, I hope that the marriage is working out.   Angela Lewis ** 25:53 No, it didn't. Oh, but I learned some No, it's okay. I brought it up. No, no, it's okay. I brought it up. But I learned so much from that experience as well. So I came back, got married, and started coaching, and I'm coached in high school and college about NCAA division one, and it was just an incredible experience to stay around the game and post the game and then teach and mentor.   Michael Hingson ** 26:19 Well, you clearly bring a pretty strong personality to the whole thing. And I'm, you know, I'm sure there are a lot of guys who wouldn't cope with that very well either   Angela Lewis ** 26:30 you're right. That's fair. Well, you know, since I saw every story, but no, I'm grateful for that experience in so so many ways.   Michael Hingson ** 26:38 Yeah, well, yeah, there's always lots to learn. So, so you coached high school, you coached College Division One, which is cool. So are you still doing some of that? Or what do you do now?   Angela Lewis ** 26:54 Now I'm not coaching on the court anymore, but I work with a company called Speaker hub, and I am head of operations, and so I lead a team of 24 incredible, incredible professionals who live around the world and help more people get on stages and share their messages. So I'm still coaching, but just not on the court.   Michael Hingson ** 27:19 It's not on the court well, but you learned a great skill.   Angela Lewis ** 27:25 Yes, basketball teaches so many, so many   Michael Hingson ** 27:27 skills, and do you still play basketball occasionally?   Angela Lewis ** 27:31 Every now and then I get out there and I get shots up, I don't play five on five anymore. Yes, I don't train to play and I just don't want to get hurt like a big fear of mine. So I'll still go out there and shoot, and I love it. I'll play course against anybody.   Michael Hingson ** 27:48 Well, yeah, there's, yeah there. There's a whole lot to it. And you're not working on being well in tip top training, in that way like you used to be, which is okay, but you know what you're doing, and that's what really matters. Well, you've coached a lot of people. What lessons did you learn from doing that? And what lessons did you learn from some of the people you coached?   Angela Lewis ** 28:13 From coaching, I've learned that you have to listen. Listening is the most important part of actually coaching, because different people need to be coached in a different way. Everyone gets held accountable, but some people may need more one on one attention. Some people may need more direct communication. Other people may just need you to listen to them and and guide them a bit more. So that's that's what I've learned about coaching, what I've learned from people that I've coached, I would say the there's someone I work with now, Maria. She's our head designer, and she she needs direct feedback about the work that she's doing, more than maybe some other people, feedback is important, but depending on who a person is, they need more feedback and guidance. And so Maria is someone who really loves that direct feedback, whereas some others are are able to work a bit differently. So knowing how to give feedback is something that I've worked on, and that, you know, Michael is learning coaching, coaching. It's always learning. Not only are you helping others, but you're learning from them and their expertise as well.   Michael Hingson ** 29:33 Do you find that there are some people who really ought to get feedback, who just refuse to accept it or refuse to listen to it at all, even though they probably really should.   Angela Lewis ** 29:45 There are some. There are some. When I, when I was coaching college basketball, there were definitely players who just didn't want to hear it, or they thought they had it all figured out. Yeah, so that part is hard in the workplace is a little different because, you know, there's. Compensation associated with performance. But back then, when I coached, it was a little Yeah, there were definitely some kids with egos,   Michael Hingson ** 30:08 yeah, and even with compensation and so on, feedback can help people improve, if they would, but listen,   Angela Lewis ** 30:17 true, very, very true. Thankfully, we have a great team. Everyone's pretty open.   Michael Hingson ** 30:22 That's good. Tell me more about speaker hub?   Angela Lewis ** 30:26 Sure, sure. So we have, we are a speakers bureau where everyone reaches out and pitches to different organizations on their own. So we have a membership where people will get access to over 4 million contacts. We have conferences associations. We have podcasts as well as media outlets where people can pitch and really reach out to share their expertise and about their businesses and grow their business through using public speaking to grow their business. Mm, so we we have a platform that we update literally every week that has the contacts and are able to reach out to search and reach out to people directly inside of our platform.   Michael Hingson ** 31:20 What do you think about this whole concept, since we're on the subject of speaking, of public speaking is one of the biggest fears that people have in this country and probably all over the world. How do we deal with getting rid of that fear? Why do we have it in the first place? I've never had it. I've never been afraid to speak, and sometimes I may not be the first person to speak, but I've never been afraid to speak my mind or to go out and speak. In fact, one of my favorite stories is that after September 11, my first official speech, if you will, came about because a pastor of a church called in New Jersey, and he said, we're going to be doing a service for all the people from New Jersey who were lost on September 11. Would you come and take about five or six minutes and tell your story? And I said, Sure, I'd be happy to, because we were living in New Jersey still at the time. And then I asked, how many people are going to be coming to the to the service, he said, oh, about 6000 so that was my first official public speech. As such, I was used to speaking in a variety of environments, because I had spoken to anything from company boards to IT professionals, and also did speaking at church and so on. But still, 6000 would intimidate a lot of people. It did bother me a bit to do that.   Angela Lewis ** 32:45 That says a lot about about you and your willingness to to share. I think some people are more comfortable, naturally comfortable to your point, others are. It's afraid of judgment. Fear of judgment is real. Fear of having everyone looking at you and hearing you and questioning your your your abilities, is something that people are are really afraid of.   Michael Hingson ** 33:13 So I think it's no go ahead.   Angela Lewis ** 33:17 I think it's something that people can develop more comfortable with with practice that can help, and also getting feedback and practicing in settings that are less than 6000 and gradually working their way up. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:33 I think, I think, though, least in my opinion, unless you're just a really scroungy individual and so on. Audiences, when you go to speak somewhere, want you to succeed. They want to hear what you have to say, and unless you just can't relate at all, audiences want you to be successful. And I've always had that belief. So that's probably another reason that I have never really been afraid to go out and speak, but after that 6000 person event, I still wasn't thinking of becoming a public speaker, but we started getting so many phone calls, as my wife and I both love to start to say, selling life and philosophy is a whole lot more fun than selling computer hardware and managing a hardware sales team. So by the beginning of 2002 it was clear that that a different window was opening and another door was closing, and it was time to go do something different. And so I've been speaking ever since, and it's it is so much fun to go to places. I've been to to places where event managers have hired me. People within the company have hired me to come and speak. And it turns out, as we talk more when I'm there, they're they were just so nervous, oh, is it going to go well? Is he going to be successful? Is this whole thing going to go well? And one of the things that several of those people have done is they've assumed. Interested me when we sell books afterward, I always like to have somebody who can handle the credit card machine, because I sign books and I brought my little credit card thing. So other people actually do that. And so some of the event, people have just stayed with me. And people come up and they say, what a wonderful talk. It's the best talk we ever heard. So it makes people feel comfortable. But those event people are often times much more nervous than I am, because, because I just feel nervous.   Angela Lewis ** 35:29 I love what you said, Michael, you believe that they want you to do well. And belief is such a powerful part of our lives. What what we believe, makes such a difference. And so the fact that you believe it and and you've done it so much, it brings ease, I'm sure, to some of the event planners over time, because they know that you're going to do well. One   Michael Hingson ** 35:51 of the things that I've learned is that I don't do well at reading speeches for a lot of reasons. The the main one is I like I've found that I do better when I customize the talk, and I'm able to use customization sometimes even right up to in the in the beginning of a speech, customizing it to get the audience to react as I expect them to and when. And I can tell when an audience is reacting positively or is is liking what they're hearing, just by the the subtle movements and the subtle noises that I hear around the the room, and if I'm not hearing some of those things that I expect to hear, then I will change something to address the issue, because I believe that when I go to speak, my job is to relate to the audience, to talk with the audience, not to the audience, and to do everything that I can to draw them in. And so one of the things that that I now tell people is being involved with the World Trade Center, and now we have a whole generation that that has had no experience with it. My job is to take them into the building with me and take them down the stairs with me and get them out with me, as if they were there. And people come up and say, later, we were with you all the way down the stairs, which is so cool.   Angela Lewis ** 37:16 That is That is really cool too. It sounds like you really care about your audience, which is something that makes a difference in terms of someone's comfort, if they think, Oh, this is a this speech is and I'm talking about, Oh, me, but you're carrying people along with you and actually helping them through your storytelling, which makes a difference.   Michael Hingson ** 37:39 Oh, it does make a difference. But I and you said something very, very relevant. It is all about telling stories. And I wish more people would tell stories. I believe, and I believe for years, having gotten a master's degree in physics, that one of the big problems with physics textbooks is they're so dry, they just do all the math and all that sort of stuff. If the authors, who are oftentimes very famous physicists would include a few stories in their books. There would be much better textbooks, and they would attract much more interest from people. But getting people to tell stories is just so hard.   Angela Lewis ** 38:13 Why do you think that is   Michael Hingson ** 38:16 they don't know how they don't necessarily realize that telling stories is a very powerful way to teach. It's just not what they're used to, and they're not enough of us talking about it probably   Angela Lewis ** 38:29 agree. 100% 100% we've we've been talking our whole lives, but telling stories and communicating in a way that connects with others isn't something that comes naturally for most. It takes practice. It   Michael Hingson ** 38:43 takes practice. So it does I believe that the best salespeople in the world are people who tell stories, because when you're talking about a product, but let's say it's a it's a product that a customer really should have, if you can relate to them and with them by telling stories of successes with other companies, or how other companies have used it, or other things that you can determine are the kinds of things that would be interesting to whoever you're selling to, you have a much better chance to actually be successful and Make make the sale that you want to make.   Angela Lewis ** 39:22 Yes, absolutely, we've all heard Yeah, Oh, nope, sorry, you go   Michael Hingson ** 39:27 ahead. No, it's just insane, which is another way of saying, sales is all about storytelling. But go ahead.   Angela Lewis ** 39:34 I was just gonna agree. I'm just agreeing with you on that. If we can get people to really understand and put themselves in in the situation, it makes a difference in their ability to to feel like you understand them and that you can connect and relate,   Michael Hingson ** 39:51 right? And that's what you got to do, and it can be a very positive tool if you do. It right? And not everybody will tell stories in exactly the same way, but that's okay, but you still can learn how to tell stories so that whoever you're talking with can relate to it, and that's what it's about.   Angela Lewis ** 40:13 It absolutely, yeah, absolutely is.   Michael Hingson ** 40:17 Well, so how did you get involved with Speaker hub?   Angela Lewis ** 40:21 I got involved with Speaker hub because I had a PR agency a few years ago, and I was our agency was helping people get on stages, but we were kind of but an agency where we did the pitching for our customers, and we and I built a team and hired people and put systems and processes in place, and the owner of speaker hub asked if our team could basically merge with the company. We weren't speaker hub before the company was called Pitch dB, and we and I built an agency using the software of pitch dB, and our agency was asked to basically merge, because we have the team, we have the operations, and he was great at marketing, is great at marketing and sales. And so our team rolled into this other company. So and then we purchased speaker hub, about eight months later, and so speaker hub, so our team helped grow speaker hub,   Michael Hingson ** 41:27 and how many clients does speaker hub have today?   Angela Lewis ** 41:32 We have over 60,000 people that use our platform. And so speaker hub asked, when we acquired speaker hub, there was Speaker hub was only a speaker page. So for example, Michael like LinkedIn, you can sign up, you can create a profile, and it has all of your information around your speaking topics, your background, your bio. And then we added the this software that allows people to reach out to different organizations, conferences and associations and media outlets. And so over 60,000 profiles are on speaker, hub of speakers from around the world. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 42:14 And people find it useful, and it's been very successful for them to find engagements and speak.   Angela Lewis ** 42:21 Yes. Yes. There are two amazing things that have happened today. We have customer calls every single day at noon Eastern where people can hop on and learn. We had someone who is an event organizer who came on the call today to let us know about an event that he has coming up, that he's looking for speakers. So there's the organizer side, where organizers are looking and then there's the other side where people are actually pitching and reaching out. So people are getting books. Someone told us today that she got booked for a conference in Kenya, and they're going to all expenses paid to Kenya for her to come out and speak at this conference. So it's wonderful to see people   Michael Hingson ** 43:05 opportunities. Yeah, that's exciting to see that kind of thing happening. Well, you have also written books. Tell me about Tell me about your books.   Angela Lewis ** 43:17 My first book is called The Game Changing assist simple ways to choose success. This book uses the framework of the six vs for success, having a vision, choosing your voices that you listen to, understanding the values to get to that vision, how to make it out of the valley, reaching the point of victory and volunteering. And so that book really takes is for young women to take them on a journey through my experiences, to learn about how to accomplish their goals in life using those six principles.   Michael Hingson ** 43:55 And even though it was written with young women in in mind, just on principle, out of curiosity, do you find that men read it as   Angela Lewis ** 44:03 well? Yes, it's applicable for everyone. At that the time I wrote the book, I was doing a lot of coaching and training young women and running girls groups. So that's why that that group of people was the target. But absolutely, those principles can transfer to anyone.   Michael Hingson ** 44:23 That's cool. So when did you write that one? When was that one?   Angela Lewis ** 44:27 It was released in 2013   Michael Hingson ** 44:29 Oh, okay, then what?   Angela Lewis ** 44:32 Then? Post moves the female athlete's guide to dominate life after college. That book is about mentoring, a lot of success in life for everyone, and is really built on mentoring and having great mentors. When I was a college athlete, the only professionals I knew were my coaches and my professors, and so that book, in that book, I. Interviewed 15 women who all play college sports, who are all doing various things professionally, and the goal was for them to be able to learn about different careers, professions and leadership from women who weren't in their shoes. So that book was really powerful, because it wasn't just my story, it was others as well, which   Michael Hingson ** 45:21 is great. When did that book come out? 2016 okay? And then,   Angela Lewis ** 45:27 yes. And then there, there's a workbook that goes along with my first book, The Game Changing assist. And so that's, that's where we are right now with publications. But I'm working on some I'm working on another one right now, kind of the lessons I've learned over the past decade from from those books. Mm,   Michael Hingson ** 45:48 so very excited about that. When will that one be out?   Angela Lewis ** 45:50 It'll be out this summer. The release date isn't set yet, but it'll be this summer cool.   Michael Hingson ** 45:58 And so you're to talk about all the lessons that you've learned and all the things that have happened and, oh, boy, I'll bet you'll have a lot to say about the pandemic in that one.   Angela Lewis ** 46:06 Oh, the pandemic changed so much for all of us. Yes, that that book is called, tentatively named, um, keep bouncing forward. How to stay confident when life knocks you off your game? Mm, what I've learned the past decade life will knock you off your game, and things don't always turn out the way that you think they will, and you get thrown some curveballs. So try to help my younger self and some and other other people learn. You know, how do you keep going in the midst of challenging times? Yeah, well,   Michael Hingson ** 46:41 there, there are a lot of times that we get thrown curveballs, and we didn't have any control over the curve balls coming necessarily, but it's like anything else. How do we deal with them? And that's what's really important. Do we do we analyze them? Do we find out whether it's a really valuable curveball that we can still hit out of the park if we're going to use another sports analogy, or or what, but we we do need to recognize that things happen, and it's always going to be a question of how we deal with it,   Angela Lewis ** 47:14 always, and it's the only thing we can control. We can't control other people. We can't control the overall situation that we can't control the weather. I mean, there's so many things that we just must most that we can't control. So navigating that and understanding that you still have a choice of a response in the midst of is the overall theme, if we can learn. It's really three parts. It's about learning in the midst of the challenge growing, which comes out of the learning of new things and being stretched and then giving. How do we give to others after we've gone through and and have gained wisdom from it?   Michael Hingson ** 47:58 Well, yeah, one of the things I've said ever since September 11, basically, is that we need to not worry about the things that we can't control. We had no control over September 11 happening, and I've never seen evidence to prove to me that that we could have figured it out, even if all the various departments in the United States government were cooperating with each other. I think that the reality is that the lesson we should learn about teamwork is that a team of 19 terrorists kept their mouth shut and made happen what we all experienced. So we didn't have control over that, but we absolutely have control over how we respond to it and how we deal with it internally, for us,   Angela Lewis ** 48:40 yes, 100% I mean, that was definitely, I mean, forever memorable and very tragic, and that's all we that's all we can control. And the environments that we're around. Who do we listen to in the most difficult times? How do we get back centered when we go through those difficult situations and continue to move forward, because we can't stop. I think, you know, Michael, when difficult things happen, oftentimes we want to, like, shut it all down, but you just can't stop forever. Have to keep going   Michael Hingson ** 49:12 well, and a corollary to that is that we need to always keep learning. I think the people, I think you mentioned it earlier, who say, Well, I already know all this. I don't need to learn anymore. They're the they're the scariest of all, because those are the people that are going to always be left by the wayside.   Angela Lewis ** 49:30 And given this rate of change of technology and the rate of change of things, learning has to be our top priority, because things are always changing. You don't want to be left behind. What do you think of   Michael Hingson ** 49:45 the the the things that we keep hearing in in schools with the advent of AI and chat GPT, the whole issue of students using chat GPT to write their papers and so on, and. What a bad thing that is. As   Angela Lewis ** 50:01 a non parent, I always preface this with anything that has to do with schools and kids. Always say, as a non parent, as an auntie, well, in the business where we use chat GPT all the time, we use it as a tool, yep. And so I think if we don't allow kids to use the tools, then they're going to be left behind. But we can teach them how to use tools wisely and how to fact check to make sure that what they're saying is that the tools are used in their voice and and used in a way that helps them become better at whatever they're doing. But we can't not use it. So I don't have the exact answer, but I think not using it is dangerous as well. Can be dangerous as well. Well, we've talked about this is not, yeah, go ahead. No, I was just going to say it's not going anywhere.   Michael Hingson ** 50:57 We've talked about fear of public speaking and so on. One of the things that I've advocated ever since I first learned about chat GPT and how teachers are complaining that too many students are just letting chat GPT write their papers. My position is, let them let chat GPT do it. The teachers need to adapt and that, I don't mean that in a cold hearted way, but the best thing to do is you can really find out how well students have learned the material or not by if you assign a paper and everybody writes a paper and then turns it in, then take a class period and let everyone have one minute, or a minute and a half to come up and defend their paper, turn the paper in, and defend and then defend the paper, because you're going to see very quickly who just let some system write their paper, or who maybe use the system, but really still wrote the paper themselves and really understands the concepts, and that's what it's really about. And I know that I've seen that even much earlier than chat GPT, I had a physics professor who was in charge of developing the PhD qualifying exam for classical mechanics one year for those people who wanted to become and get get PhDs in physics, and more people failed his exam than anyone else had ever experienced. And the powers that be called him in and were chastising him, and he said, Wait a minute. You don't get it. He said, Look at this paper. This is the exam I give to all of my freshmen in classical mechanics. And here's the exam that we use for the PhD qualifying exam. The only difference between the two was that both had 16 questions that were conceptual, not mathematical in nature, but the PhD qualifying exam had four questions that were clearly solving mathematical equations, Lagrangian dynamics and so on. And the thing that people messed up on were not the four mathematical things, but all the concepts, because physics people spend so much time dealing with the math rather than focusing on the concepts that people never really got them. And the result was that people messed up on the concepts, although they got the math part his test was the same one that his freshman students got. It really kind of quieted them all down. Quieted all the powers down, because they realized, oh, maybe he's not the problem, which is so true.   Angela Lewis ** 53:45 You know you're Oh, nope, no, go ahead. No, I think you're right. I think educators will have to find a way to to ensure that students are still learning while using the technology that exists, yeah, I think that   Michael Hingson ** 54:07 it's a paradigm shift, and chat GPT is creating this paradigm shift, and now what we need to do is to recognize the value of of what it brings. I've written articles, and I use chat GPT when I write articles, but I will look at the ideas that it provides and it and it comes up with things I hadn't thought of, which is fine, and I will include them, but I'm still the one that ultimately writes the articles, and it needs to be that way. And I don't care how good chat GPT gets, it can be the most perfect thing, but it still isn't me, and it never will be,   Angela Lewis ** 54:43 and that ties back into the storytelling. Chat GPT can't tell our stories of our lives. It can't create the experiences that we've had. It can't recreate our experiences. So even in using chat GPT or any any AI software to help write. And we still have to be able to speak authentically to our lived experience, and it can never replace that. It can never replace you. It can never replace our experiences and the impact those experiences can have for others.   Michael Hingson ** 55:14 And that is so true. So for you, we're doing this podcast called unstoppable mindset. What does unstoppable mindset mean to you, and how do you bring it out and make it a part of everything that you do in every day and in your whole life?   Angela Lewis ** 55:32 Unstoppable mindset, to me, means getting knocked down and being willing to get back up and get knocked down again, and being willing to get back up, and more importantly, believing that you can get back up. You're going to miss, to use the sports analogies, you're going to miss shots. You're going to not win every you're not going to win every game, and you're not going to play well every night, every day. Won't be perfect, but if you're willing to keep moving forward and keep pushing forward, then you still have an opportunity to one inspire others, but also to get to your goals, whatever they may be.   Michael Hingson ** 56:08 And the reality is, the more of it you do, the better you'll become. And maybe it'll get to the point where you won't miss any shots and you'll just be perfect, and that's okay, too, as long as you recognize where it came from and why you've been able to attain so well.   Angela Lewis ** 56:26 Yes, yes. And sometimes, Michael, you know, our mindset, looking at others journeys, can help us as well. And it can. It's like, okay, if they can do it, I can do it if, if my parents can. You know, my mom grew up in Mississippi and literally picked cotton. I mean, my mom's 83 years old, and so to be able to see what she's gone through, and for her to have the mindset, to be able to push through and to continue to have faith, well, then I can too. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:57 and that's and that's as it should be.   Angela Lewis ** 57:01 Yes, we can lean on those stories of mentors or others who've been through challenging situations and use that to crystallize an unstoppable mindset within us as well.   Michael Hingson ** 57:13 And I think that's as good as it gets. And so with that, we've been doing this just about an hour. I think it's time to go off and let you go off. And I don't know whether you've had dinner yet or not, but I haven't, and I know dinner is going to be coming. But more important than that, we've been talking for a while. I don't want to bore people, but I want to thank you for being here, and I want to really tell you how much I appreciate all the the words of wisdom that you have given us and all the things that you've had to say, it's been wonderful, and I want to thank all of you for being with us today. I hope that you've come away with a better commitment to a better understanding of and a better resolve to be more unstoppable than you thought you were. So thank you for all of you for being here and being a part of this. Love to hear what you think, Angela, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Angela Lewis ** 58:09 If you want to reach out to me, you can find me on LinkedIn, Angela R Lewis on LinkedIn, or you can reach out to me on Instagram. The Angela R Lewis, Michael, thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation.   Michael Hingson ** 58:23 Well, it's been fun, and I again, want to thank you all, and I'd love to hear from you. Please feel free to email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com that's Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, Michael hingson is m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n, so Thanks all for for being here. Please give us a five star rating wherever you're watching or hearing our podcast today. We love it. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on our podcast, Angela for you as well. Please introduce us. We're always looking for people to come on and tell their stories, because I think everyone has a story, and my goal is to give people the opportunity to tell them and inspire the rest of us. So please come on and don't hesitate any of you to introduce us to people who we ought to have on. So again. Angela, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you, Michael. You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

全球最大電商亞馬遜，用 100 萬台機器人打造「人機協作倉庫」，讓每位員工處理的包裹量翻了 20 倍。這場產業革命，從機器開始，也從軟體升級。本集《科技領航家》邀請 MetAI 共同創辦人余泰萬，他們是全球少數專注工業AI模擬的新創，更是唯一獲輝達投資的台灣團隊。一起來聽他分享：為什麼未來的AI不只會算，還得學會「模擬」？數位孿生如何重塑製造決策？台灣軟體新創要突圍世界，還缺哪一塊拼圖？歡迎收聽！IC之音行銷企劃AI金融科技，如何影響國內外投資市場？關稅戰爆發、貨幣匯率變動，如何配置資產，穩定避險？IC之音　i Forum國際資產論壇—關稅戰、匯率變，談AI與投資避險邀請 台灣ETF創始者，元大投信董事長 劉宗聖清大計量財務金融系副教授，兼任政大國際金融學院 韓傳祥分享國內外ETF趨勢、主動式ETF等與AI金融科技的創新走向。現場並匯聚國際不動產與移民專家，帶來海外發展的多元趨勢與機會。八月三十號 星期六早上九點 新竹國賓大飯店11樓竹萱廳免費入場，座位有限！快上IC之音官網報名！即刻報名:https://www.digitimes.com.tw/seminar/iForum_20250830/活動專線 0800-222-975 Podcast廣告合作請洽：sharon.wang@ic975.com03-5163975分機208 王小姐

Many managers struggle to let go of IC work. The thought might be, "It's easier if I just do it," or "It's faster if I do it -- plus, I know it will be done to my standards." If you'd rather do it yourself instead of explaining what needs to be done, coaching or training someone, or writing out SOPs. . . you're not alone!A recent study about how the brain learns can also shed some light on what's going on. Having this awareness may prevent you from getting into the weeds of IC work. It can also help you understand why your team is resistant to change. (Because the brain likes to do what it knows how to do!)Read more about the study:https://www.sainsburywellcome.org/web/research-news/scientists-discover-new-way-brain-learns**After the Episode**Get notified of future course dates:https://maven.com/kimnicol/communication-strategiesDiscuss private coaching:https://kimnicol.com/Follow me on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimnicol/

The big picture: AI is already better at writing, summarizing, and mimicking tone. So what does that mean for internal comms?Why it matters: If your value is built on turning chaos into copy, you're replaceable. But if you lead with strategy, trust, and human nuance—you're untouchable.Go deeper: Regine Nelson, Internal Communications and Employee Engagement Lead at Couchbase joins to unpack her viral post on the future of IC in the age of AI. We talk about:The real reason comms pros should be worriedWhy most of us are still reacting, not leadingWhat it takes to become a strategist—not a scribeHow to build a comms career that AI can't replicateListen now if you want to stay relevant, be respected, and future-proof your role.

On Friday's Mark Levin Show, Stephen Colbert's show was cancelled because they were losing millions of dollars a year, it had nothing to do with President Trump. Colbert and his late-night pals destroyed late night comedy by making it overly political and monotonous, rather than focusing on laughter as people seek escape from politics. Past great comedians like Jay Leno, Johnny Carson, and Steve Allen built this genre professionally and these hosts have exploited and ruined it. Also, America First Legal revealed emails showing Biden DOJ and White House coordination on Merrick Garland's 2021 memo directing FBI to address “threats” from parents protesting school policies on COVID, CRT, and transgender issues. The DOJ sought a federal hook despite internal warnings of First Amendment protections and no federal jurisdiction. Emails undermine Garland's independence claims. They coordinated, lied about it and nobody will be held to account. In addition, declassified documents from DNI Tulsi Gabbard reveal the Obama administration politicized intelligence to fabricate a Russian interference narrative in the 2016 election, despite IC reports showing no cyber impact on outcomes, only minor psychological efforts. This laid groundwork for the Trump-Russia probe, involving officials like Clapper, Brennan, Rice, Kerry, Lynch, and McCabe, culminating in a Dec 9 White House meeting and new IC assessment per Obama. We always knew this was corrupt. Later, Alexander Hamilton's views on liberty and government differed with those of Jefferson and Madison. Hamilton's modern appeal among centralized power advocates, as seen in the Broadway musical's popularity with elites and academics. Hamilton proposed lifetime terms for the executive and one legislative branch at the Convention, an idea rejected. Raoul Berger's book critiques implied powers as abusive, emphasizing the Constitution's intent to restrict federal authority and protect state residuary powers. Hamilton in Federalist No. 33 reassured states on the "necessary and proper" clause as means to execute delegated powers only, per Madison and ratification understandings. Afterward, NYC Mayoral candidate Curtis Sliwa calls in with an update on his campaign against Zohran Mamdani, Eric Adams and Andrew Cuomo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stephanie O'Brien formed her company, Coach Client Connection, 13 years ago to help coaches and experts connect with the people who need their services. She grew up in Manitoba Canada. She says that as a child she had great difficulties in developing relationships with her fellow children. As she said during our conversation, she tended to be too clingy among other things.   She began writing at an early age and wrote her first full-length novel at the age of twelve. She has written 14 books, four of which she self-published. As she matured, she began connecting with writers online and found that she could create relationships with them. She then learned how to make others around her feel interesting and thus also began learning how to establish real relationships with others.   As she tells us, she also began meeting with coaches and others to improve herself and her self-esteem.   We talk quite a bit during this episode about coaching and how Stephanie has created a program to help coaches better interact with clients and others. She even gives us a free gift to help us learn how to choose and interact with coaches.     About the Guest:   Stephanie O'Brien, founder of Coach Client Connection, has been helping coaches and experts to connect with the people who need them since 2013.   Throughout her childhood, she struggled to make connections with others. As the kid who was always sending invitations to the other kids, and seldom being invited herself, she knows what it's like to feel invisible and unwanted.   She immersed herself in her writing, and completed her first full-length novel at the age of 12. She went on to write 14 novels, four of which she self-published as ebooks (she calls the rest “teenage practice”).   As she began to connect with other writers online, she gradually honed the art of building relationships by making the people around her feel interesting, wanted, and understood. She also sought healing through coaching and therapy, and experienced firsthand the transformations coaching can bring. This gave her a passion for helping coaches to share those transformations with more people, so those people can enjoy the same freedom, joy, and recovery from old wounds that she did.   Since then, Stephanie has spent over 10 years helping coaches to get noticed, connect with the people who need them, and turn their expertise into coaching programs that their clients can easily understand, implement, and turn into real results.   When serving clients, she draws on her decades of practice in writing fiction and nonfiction, her ability to see both the big picture and the little details, and her experience as a client of both great coaches and coaches who left her discouraged and disappointed. She also uses the relationship principles she discovered to help set coaches at ease, draw out more of their expertise than they even knew they had, and make the process of creating their programs easy and fun. Ways to connect with Stephanie:   https://www.coachclientconnection.com/ https://www.instagram.com/stephanieobriencoaching/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-obrien-program-design/ https://www.facebook.com/StephanieOBrienCoaching   Free Gift: https://www.coachclientconnection.com/How-to-Pick-a-Coaching-Topic-that-SELLS/   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're going to try to be unstoppable today as much as much as we can. Our guest is Stephanie O'Brien. O'Brien, good Swedish name Stephanie. I couldn't resist. It's a it's pleasure to have you here, and it's a pleasure to have all of you listening. Stephanie has been involved in coaching and connecting coaches and clients for 13 years now, my gosh, a long time, and we're going to learn all about that. And I know that Stephanie's got a lot of words of wisdom to talk about. So without further ado, as it were, let's get into all of this. So Stephanie, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 02:03 Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me here. I'm looking forward to this,   Michael Hingson ** 02:07 and as I told Stephanie earlier, the rule of the podcast is you got to have fun. So, you know, we do our best. But anyway, let's start out with kind of the early Stephanie, growing up and all that. And you know, just to learn a little bit about you if we can   Stephanie O'Brien ** 02:22 sure, a big part of the reason why later came to have a focus on helping coaches connect with people was because for me, connecting people was connecting with people was really difficult. When I was young, I'd be the kid who on Saturday morning, I'd get on the phone at a call each of my friends one by one, only to be told that they didn't want to hang out. And I was seldom the one who got a call in return. So I had a really hard time connecting with people. Admittedly, I could be a bit clingy and boring, so I have to recognize my own faults and where I had to grow from there, but at the time, I didn't really know how to fix that. So yeah, I had a hard time connecting with people. Eventually, I started connecting with people through writing. I was a pretty prolific novelist. I finished my first novel when I was 12 years old. Terrible novel. Mom told me, Steph, don't delete it. And I tell her, no, no, it's so bad I'll never want to see it again. Mother knew best. I shouldn't have deleted it. But I went on to write 14 novels, four of which were good enough by adult needs standards, to Self Publish. And while I was doing all this writing, I started connecting with other writers, talking with them about their stories. I got very good at building relationships and asking the right questions to keep the conversation going, but I just kind of learned how to connect with people through trial and error. Though I've been still worked with some mentors to get better at it still. So now I use that experience, the writing experience, the ability to phrase things in a way that's easy to understand and connect with that experience. With building relationships, I help coaches to connect with more of their ideal clients now.   Michael Hingson ** 03:49 So have you always been in Manitoba? Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 03:53 I've always lived in Manitoba. Sometimes vacations are traveled outside if it always lived here, oh   Michael Hingson ** 03:58 yeah, lot of snow in the winter, oh   Stephanie O'Brien ** 04:01 yeah, it's been less severe lately, like it's in the last few years, we've had more 30 degree days in summer, fewer 40 degree below days in winter. But it still can get pretty cold.   Michael Hingson ** 04:14 Isn't that crazy? Well, but, and of course, some people say there's no such thing as climate change. So what do you do?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 04:20 You put out the pictures of me trick or treating as a kid versus me at Halloween this year, like I went from trick or treating in blizzards to walking on grass in November one. There's a difference.   Michael Hingson ** 04:33 Well, so you you went to school? Did you go to university? Or any of that? I   Stephanie O'Brien ** 04:38 was actually homeschooled, and I went to Athabasca University online, but I didn't take a full formal university education. Instead, I learned. I took courses from various coaches and business owners to learn how to run an online business. Wow, Peter, if you're gonna do a secondary education, you may as well learn from someone who's doing what you want to do, and to teach you how to do it   Michael Hingson ** 04:57 well. And as long as that, we're. For you that that's a good thing to do.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 05:01 Yeah, you've got to choose your education based on what you're trying to learn and what you're trying to accomplish. I don't like the cookie cutter model, or you got to get a college education because, yeah, learn what's relevant.   Michael Hingson ** 05:13 Well, I think there's value in college and or university, absolutely. And I went, I went to to the university, and I think for me, probably it was the best thing to do, because back in well, in 68 to 76 when I was at the University of California at Irvine, there weren't a lot of alternatives other than college for getting access to material, accessible stuff wasn't there. In fact, majoring in physics, my books had to be transcribed into Braille and and that that was a challenge, because professors didn't always want to provide information about what books they were going to use until as late in the process as they could, just in case a new book came out. And that that didn't work for me, and so one of the things that I learned was how to work with professors, and when necessary, use higher authorities than professors at the university to get them to provide what needed to be done. So that was that was useful, but the material wasn't accessible without me making a major effort. So probably college was would have been, anyway, for me, the way to do it. But obviously what you did worked for you. And so, you know, I figure it's important to   Stephanie O'Brien ** 06:29 just go to figure out what you want to do with your life, figure out what information or courses you need on that, and then, you know, pick the source that is most appropriate to provide it. It's there's no one size fits all,   Michael Hingson ** 06:41 no, and I agree. What do you do with people who say I don't know what I want to do with my life?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 06:48 Those generally don't tend to be our target audience, but I can help them in a few ways. I can give them a few questions that they can answer. You know, they can look at what is something that they really love to talk about can't get enough of talking about so they could study this forever. Is it something that they could you know, an area where they can help get results for people. Let's say they are really into relationships. They're fascinated by human relationships. Can they help people to communicate better? Can they help people to find better, healthier partners? Can they help them to avoid common conflicts with other people? Or, you know, what's a problem that they've solved for themselves, that they've healed in their own life. You know, maybe they had a really rough cancer journey and found out, you know, what went wrong, what went right, what could have gone right more to make it easier for them. Now, I know one person who she got through breast cancer and now teaches other people how to navigate that journey a lot more smoothly than what she experienced. Yeah. So, yeah, I encourage people to, you know, look at their lives. Look at what you do for free, if you had the option, if money wasn't an object, what fascinate? See what you're passionate about, and just see, is there a way you can use that to make other people's lives better?   Michael Hingson ** 07:54 Well? And that makes a lot of sense. And we, we all should do a whole lot more introspection and analyze what we do and and even ask ourselves why we do it, because we we tend to just move ahead and do stuff and we don't think about it. And the other part of what happens as a result of that is that we try to control everything that we do, we don't think about what we're doing, and we're a lot more afraid than we should be, and then we need to be, if we would only take the time to really be introspective and learn what is it that really is going on? Why do I feel this way? And as you're pointing out, what can I do about it? But if we really take the time to analyze. Then we figure out somewhere along the line, you don't need to worry about what you can't control, just focus on the things that you can and your life is a whole lot better anyway. Oh yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 08:54 yeah, at Holyoke, give me the strength to control, our strength to change what I can the grace to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 09:02 well, and the reality is that one of the things that I talk about a lot is the mind's a muscle, and you need to develop it whoever you are, and the best way to do that is to think about what you do. I've learned that I'm not my own worst critic, I'm my own best teacher, and that's the way it should be. But I have to be open to learning and letting me and my inner voice teach. But if I do that, then I'm oftentimes, as I think back on it, very amazed at what I suddenly discovered that I didn't know before because I wouldn't take the time to think about it and study it.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 09:40 Yeah, we can get so busy, so caught up in our day to day lives, so ingrained in our routine. Sometimes it can be challenging to rattle ourselves out of that, and sometimes we need another set of eyes, or someone asking the right questions,   Michael Hingson ** 09:53 yeah, and then, and we need to take that time so. So for you. You, you studied, you worked with people. And so you what? Well, what kind of jobs did you have early in your your job world? Or did you always coach?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 10:12 Um, my first jobs, that was actually a waitress for a restaurant my mom owned, along with a couple other people. They were going to run the restaurant along with us. They were going to be the main ones owning the restaurant, and then they just kind of ditched us and left us with a restaurant we didn't know what to do with. So I was a waitress there for a bit before we sold the building and moved on. Then we tried owning rental properties for a bit, and honestly, no, never again. We were not cut out for that. It   Michael Hingson ** 10:34 was terrible, scary thing. Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 10:37 yeah, it's done. I can still lose like I'm fine with being responsible for me. I don't need theory to be responsible for me and all the tenants who call me during supper to mediate between their fights. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 10:50 this only so many hours in a day, and people need to take responsibility for themselves. So I hear you. So what did you do after that? That   Stephanie O'Brien ** 10:57 was after that that we started getting into coaching. You I'd been writing novels for pretty much as long as I could write, and I was going with mom. She was becoming a coach. She was studying under Mary Morrissey, so I went with her to learn how to use my fiction writing skills for business. And I started studying under Brendan Norman and then Ted McGrath. And yeah, they it was actually Brenda Norman who introduced me to the world of writing for marketing, and, you know, knowing how to focus on the results that people care about instead of the process that they don't really care about, how to phrase things in terms of the actual experiences that they long for, instead of just giving dry, vague descriptions issues kind of my gateway To the world of marketing.   Michael Hingson ** 11:37 So you you really, essentially came by the whole concept of coaching pretty naturally, by by just the the evolution of of what you did, which is pretty cool. How about your books, though, are, are any of them still available for people to get?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 11:56 Yeah, got four novels on my website. It's Stephanie O'Brien books.com where I host my novels, my short stories, my comics, my art, basically all my creative stuff that isn't coaching. And I've also got one non fiction book, one month program builder up on my website. I have written another one tell people with their marketing message, but that one needs to be updated. I'm planning to update and republish it eventually, but it just hasn't been   Michael Hingson ** 12:20 a top priority. So have you published all of your own books? Or have you worked at all with traditional   Stephanie O'Brien ** 12:26 publishers? It's all been self published. A lot of the traditional publishing route just seems like too much of a pain for them, still expecting me to do Mark most of the marketing. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:35 that's one of the things that has happened, is that publishers tend to not do nearly the marketing that they used to, which is, which is fine for those who really do know how to market, but there is also value in publishers doing a lot more to help than I think probably a lot of them do, but it's the way the world is going that we've we are so steeped in social media and everything now, people think that's the only way to market and it's not.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 13:06 Yeah. Anytime someone says their way is the only way, I immediately get suspicious, like they instantly lose credibility. There are so many different ways to market yourself and grow a business. The important thing is finding a way that works for you. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 13:21 And ultimately, one of the tests of whether it works for you is whether you see results or not. But, but true, it is still there is not just one way to market or sell for that matter,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 13:32 yeah, and if you're not having fun doing it, you know, it's kind of like your podcast, if you're not having fun doing it, especially because, yeah, I found that if I try and commit to a marketing method that I just really hate doing, I will struggle every day to get it done. I'll wind up procrastinating, I won't do it as consistently as I should, and I won't get results. So yeah, when you're choosing your marketing method, you gotta pick something that even if you're not totally ecstatic about it, you at least enjoy it enough that you can do it consistently   Michael Hingson ** 14:00 well, and you may discover later that you really do enjoy it, and that's that's part of it. We don't always necessarily know everything in our own minds the way we ought to. But if we, if we keep looking and we keep trying things and we find something, well, this is working. I'm not a great fan of it, but 10 years from now, you may discover that you learned a lot and you really love it.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 14:23 Yeah, you can always just experiment with it. You'll give it a 90 day shot it, don't. You don't want to just poke at it and then go, Oh, it didn't work instantly. But, you know, give it a be a good old college try. Give it a 90 day genuine try. And if you're really hating it, if it's not getting results, be willing to let it go. If it's getting results, if you're enjoying it, keep on going, working on refining it   Michael Hingson ** 14:42 well. And if you're getting results and you don't enjoy it, then it's probably worth exploring. Why don't you enjoy it? Yeah, that might be very telling also.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 14:53 And if it's something that can be outsourced, then you might want to look at outsourcing. Actually, it depends on the nature of what it is you.   Michael Hingson ** 15:00 Yeah, there is that. But if it's working that that, in of itself, is something right off the bat. Yeah, you   Stephanie O'Brien ** 15:06 don't want to ditch what's working unless you got something better to replace this.   Michael Hingson ** 15:10 That's that is always true. Well, so anyway, so you started studying, and eventually, when did you start your your business, and start coaching, seriously.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 15:24 Um, see, I kind of, I was kind of half probably coaching, partly writing for people, as early as 2013 that's where I got my start. And then just kind of gradually got more and more into coaching, as opposed to writing for people. So of course, even the other process of writing for people still involves a certain amount of coaching, because you have to help them understand, Okay, here's why I'm doing it this way. Here's what we need to communicate. Here's what you need to communicate as a follow up afterward. So there's a certain amount of coaching involved in that too, but it's been the last few years that I've shifted my focus more fully to helping people create their coaching programs, as opposed to, you know, writing marketing materials for the programs they already have. Now,   Michael Hingson ** 16:00 you've written a number of fiction books, right? Tell me about that that I'm still trying to figure out how to write a fiction book   Stephanie O'Brien ** 16:10 for me. Most of the time. It starts with me having a few ideas for scenes or relationships, etc, and then spending the rest of the time trying to justify their existence. Like here are a few really great scenes, and now I need to figure out all the other plot points that lead to this moment the books I've published so far. One of them is called cat girl roommate. It takes the concept of a cat girl, except that instead of being the stereotypical sexy cat girl, she's a cat girl who actually acts like a cat and thinks like a cat. I've owned cats pretty much as long as I can remember, so I just took a whole bunch of their ridiculous shenanigans, and put them into this one cat girl, like, how she'll, you know, the her roommate who's taking care of her, he'll make the same meal for both of them. But she doesn't want her. She wants his. It's the exact same thing, but she's sure that his is better. Such a cat thing to do another it's called a heroic lies. It's, um, kind of a dark twist on the superhero genre, where you've got this villain who keeps on kidnapping people, keeps on trying to fight the hero, except that there seems to be nothing in it for him. It kind of explores that whole Why is the villain putting so much into the fighting the hero instead of making his own life better with his own genius, and kind of puts dark twists on it? Oh, shoot. That's why.   Michael Hingson ** 17:20 Cute. Well, and speaking of cats, see who I have on the back of my desk chair here. Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 17:28 I noticed him moving around. But enough, I got one sitting in a chair right over there.   Michael Hingson ** 17:32 Well, stitch usually isn't in with me, but our house is being cleaned, and so her bed is is under attack, as far as she's concerned. So, so she came in here, which she usually does, and she'll just stay up on the chair. She's fine,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 17:48 yeah? My cat tape laundry day sometimes I finished, you know, laundering the sheets and making the bed. Okay, Brandy, your bed is ready.   Michael Hingson ** 17:56 Yeah? Well, stitch, stitch copes pretty well. And then there's my guide dog, Alamo, who's down on the floor. You can't see him, but he's he's down there and quite content. But stitch seems to be pretty well. She moves around a little bit, but she's planted herself on the back of the chair. And I didn't even think about it when I bought this desk chair to get something wide enough so that she could be on it, but it's worked out really well.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 18:23 And yeah, she seems very cozy and   Michael Hingson ** 18:25 content she is. And for those who don't know, stitch is my, my main coon rescue cat. We've had her now for 10 years, over 10 years. So since the bed is is being made and washed and all that. Then she's in here and she's fine. She'll get bored eventually,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 18:47 Hey, as long as she isn't wandering around screaming, as mine sometimes does.   Michael Hingson ** 18:50 Yeah, yeah, that's the big issue. Well, so you you got into this whole business of of coaching, and how did you start or working with her? How did you decide to start working with other coaches and coaching them in terms of dealing with clients and so on. While   Stephanie O'Brien ** 19:11 I was accompanying my mom to all these the training events, I just started falling in love with coaches and coaching. I saw all these amazing people who are trying to be their best selves, live their best lives, break free from their old patterns and beliefs and ways of being, instead of just being ruled by them their whole lives, and trying to help others to do the same. I just fell in love with it, of the idea of the ripple effect I could make by helping these people. I also became a client of some coaches, and I found it was really it really changed my life in a lot of ways, like helping me to overcome the emotional difficulties from that childhood I described, where people didn't want to be around me, where I couldn't make friends seeing the change it made in myself. I wanted to help more people to experience those transformations, and I wanted to help the amazing coaches who were making such a change to have more success and joy in their own lives, too. Yeah. But you know, as I was interacting with them, I found that I think they were in some ways, kind of too educated for their own good, because they say stuff like, I help you shift your paradigms. And I think I might have mentioned that earlier, but yeah, they they didn't realize that these things that had so much meaning for them wouldn't have the same meaning for someone who didn't have their training. So, you know, they here shift your paradigms, and they can instantly mentally connect it with a result, whereas the lay person here is that they can kind of speculate about the result that they don't immediately look up and say, Yes, that's the exact change I need in my life. But I was kind of the universal translator from Star Trek, helping them translate their coach speak jargon into layperson's terms and into the terms of here's what the people actually want.   Michael Hingson ** 20:42 If you were to define it, what would you say is the definition of a coach? What is a coach?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 20:50 I'd say it's somebody who that works. Doesn't just put a training program for someone to go through on their own pace. It actually works directly with the person. You're helping that person find the answers that they need, helping them to work through their own minds, their own circumstances, their own desires, and helps them ask the right questions is someone who helped them to figure out their own life or some specific aspect of their own life. They don't just give education. They also receive what the client has to say, and help the clients to work through it and understand it.   Michael Hingson ** 21:21 Yeah, I once heard a definition the difference between a coach and a therapist, mainly is that a therapist helps you find the answers, but the therapist knows the answers and can give you the answers, but a coach guide you, because you're the one who really has to discover the answers and figure out what it is that you need to deal with. So the coach will guide you and help you discover, but you have to be the one to do with the coach doesn't necessarily know nor provide the answers.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 21:56 Yeah, and when I'm working with coaches, that's definitely the case where you know they're the subject matter expert on whatever they're trying to teach on. I'm just the person who knows which questions to ask to draw out their expertise and help them to share it in a more effective way and to come up with it. Or you could draw it out of hiding in a more efficient way, instead of spending weeks trying to figure out what to say. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 22:19 So in general, what I you've talked about a little bit, but what are some of the challenges that you first saw in dealing with coaches when you first started?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 22:29 Well, there was the one I mentioned, where they didn't really know how to explain their services in a way that resonated with people. You know, they talked about the process they took them through, or the amount of content they were going to give them, or the amount of time they were going to spend with the person. Thing is, you're asking for a bunch of a person's time. That's not a selling point. That's a chore. You're you're going to spend five hours of your weekend on this. That's an anti selling point by helping if they one of those challenges then was, you know, not knowing what it is that their clients really want and addressing that. Another is time. Is a huge issue, I think, in the business world in general. So a lot of people struggle to find the time to create their coaching programs, or what time they have they don't use it officially, because they don't have a system for quickly and easily drawing out all that content and organizing it. Another is money. A lot of coaches are having trouble finding the right clients, connecting with them, conveying the value of their products and services to them, so that they actually go get those clients and get the money. So those I find, are three of the big challenges that coaches run into.   Michael Hingson ** 23:31 Yeah, I can say, having observed a lot about it, that a lot of people seriously undervalue or don't recognize the value that they bring, and so as a result, when they're creating courses or coaching or whatever, they undersell and don't charge what they're necessarily really worth. And there are reasons to avoid that and really charge what you're worth, but you also have to learn how to do that and learn how to figure that out. But people do tend to sell themselves short way too often.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 24:13 Yeah, when you're really immersed in your own expertise, can be so easy to start feeling like what you know is common knowledge, when in reality, it's stuff that a lot of people don't know. And even if they know some of the surface stuff, they don't know the same kind of depth as they don't know it in the same kind of depth as you do. Now, I've actually got exercises I take my clients through so they can kind of remind themselves of the depth of their own expertise and how much they know that their clients don't know. I'd be happy to share that if you want. Sure. Yeah. And for those of you who are listening, I hope you've got something to write this down and record this so I'm going to walk you through this exercise. Not only does it help you to really boost your confidence in your own expertise, it'll also help you come up with a ton of content for your coaching programs, your training programs, your content marketing, podcasts, newsletters, social media, posts. So, so yeah, definitely be ready to take notes on this. So your first step is to figure out what are the things that you can help people with. You know, just write it down in broad categories. Maybe you could say, I help them with marketing, with JVs, with getting referrals. So you put those broad categories, kind of break them down by the results. What are the results that you can help people get then pick one of those results. I like to use the example of a relationship coach who helps a single men to meet and marry the woman of their dreams. So the result is that this person has a loving marriage with the woman of his dreams, but right now he's single and lonely and doesn't know how to approach women. So then for step two, what you do is you'd write down the steps that you take your clients through, preferably in chronological order. I know not everyone can do chronological order, because some processes just don't happen in a specific timeline or a specific sequence, but if you can do it in chronological order, it's best to do so. So the steps that you'd write down say you're this coach you could write down, helping him to figure out what kind of woman he wants to meet, helping him to figure out where these types of women might hang out, how to approach her, how to have a conversation, how to get a first date, how to see if, how to conduct himself on that first date, and see if she's the kind of person he wants to keep dating. How to get a second date, if he wants and so forth. So once you've written down all these steps in chronological order, pick one of those steps and break it down further, this is where you really start to see the depth of the expertise that you have. So step one was figure out what kind of woman you want to meet. So you could ask questions like, what kinds of experiences do you want to have with your partner, and what kind of person would want to have those experiences with you? What kind of experiences do you not want to have, and what kind of person would give you those bad experiences? What kind of positive experiences have you had in the past that you want more of you if you need help to figure out what you want? Does Do you want a partner who wants to be a homemaker or a career woman or a business owner? Do you want a partner who wants to have kids with you, or who I'd rather stay childless? Does give them really specific questions that they can ask themselves to better understand you know what they wanted to better understand how they can go about this. And if you want to give them instructions for how to do something, make those instructions so specific that if an alien never even heard of your subject of expertise before were to read the instructions, the alien would know exactly how to do it. You don't feel like those software developers who go, okay, just click on this tab, this tab and this tab, okay, but how do I get to that tab in the first place? Don't assume that your clients know how to do the first few steps. Some of them will some of them won't. You don't want to leave that second category behind. And you can also look at what are the best practices they can use while doing this. What are some common mistakes? What are some examples you can give them of people actually doing this. And by doing going through this exercise, you can really get a clear view of just how much depth and detail you know about every single step in this entire process. And when you really break it down, every single step that goes into the process has so much nuance, so much detail, so many things that you could teach them, so many nuggets of wisdom you probably have that you might have even forgotten since it's become so second nature. I encourage you to do that exercise and remind yourself what an expert you are and come up with a huge amount of content at the same time.   Michael Hingson ** 28:22 Right? And then what happens? So   Stephanie O'Brien ** 28:27 what happens next? Of course, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You know, if you once you've done this exercise, if you're trying to create a coaching program, you still need to figure out how you're going to deliver it, whether it's in group coaching calls one on one, a hybrid, or if you want to make a training program as opposed to a coaching program, you need to figure out how to price it, how what kind of posting software you want to use to deliver it. Those are some of the steps that come after. And of course, you need to figure out how to sell it, how to market it in a way that works for you   Michael Hingson ** 28:59 well. So coaches are human, like, like everyone else, at least, that's, that's the theory. And so you observed coaches having challenges. You've observed people not necessarily dealing with discovering the things that they should discover in order to be able to coach or to to progress. How do you find or how do they overcome those challenges? What do you do to help them overcome those challenges?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 29:31 It kind of depends what the situation is that's preventing them from progressing. So yeah, my first step would be, of course, to talk with them and figure out, Okay, what's stopping you from progressing? Is it that you feel you don't know enough to create a coaching program? In that case, let's see how we can draw out more information from you. Is it that you have too much information and you don't know which information to put in each offer because you don't want to try and shove it all in the same offer? It's just going to get cluttered, and people will feel it ripped off if they're paying for information they don't need. That might help them figure out if they. How many offers Do you want to make? What information goes into each offer if they're having trouble with time in my program, creation Made Easy. Course, the first thing I do with people is actually look at their schedule and figure out, okay, what are your priorities? What needs to be in your schedule, what can be paired out? Where can we make time to actually create your coaching program? So those are some examples of how I help people with some common challenges.   Michael Hingson ** 30:24 Do you find a lot of resistance people don't want to, or think they don't want to overcome the challenges because they don't really exist? Do you see a lot of that kind of challenge and that people just resist because they're really not thinking in as I put it, being introspective.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 30:44 I'd say one of the biggest challenges I find people run into that stops them from working with me is they want to do it on their own. And some people can do it on their own, but others wind up working on it for weeks on end. You say, Oh yeah, I'm working on figuring out this content. Then weeks later, I follow up, hey, how are you doing? I'm still working on it. We could have had it done in 60 to 90 minutes. Here, just one call with me, 60 to 90 minutes, and that could have been done. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 31:10 well, that's your expertise that brings that. And the result is that, again, people aren't thinking it through, and so the result is that they they continue to go in circles and not necessarily move to where they ought to be as quickly as they should. But at the same time, there's only so much you can do, because you can't force people to listen.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 31:39 Yeah, all I can do is, as with any business owner, work on getting better and better at communicating my value and helping people see why they're better off working with me.   Michael Hingson ** 31:47 Well, that's an interesting point. It's as much a learning experience for you, isn't it?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 31:55 Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you're finding that people aren't really responding here to your messaging, you need to look at your messaging or the way you're presenting it, and see, okay, Where can this be improved, and even if your messaging has been working, you know, things can shift to trends can shift. People can get overloaded on a certain amount of certain type of messaging. So you need to be prepared to adapt and to listen to people and see how their needs and their preferences are evolving.   Michael Hingson ** 32:19 Yeah, and I you, you bring up a really good point that I like a lot, and that is that things may be working. You may be doing something well, the question is, can you do it better? And I think that's a question that we should always be asking ourselves, can I even improve what I'm doing that takes humility to be able to ask that question. But it is still true. It's something that we should do, and that is really look at by doing this the best way I can. Can I improve it? And of course, that is something that you as a coach brings to it as well, because sometimes, if they consult with you, they can find out that you may approve of what they're doing, you may like what they're doing, but you can come up with other solutions that are even better. I love the whole idea of collaboration, and we don't. We don't see nearly as much of it as we should, and I think way too often, as you point out, people just want to do things on their own, but none of us are really an island.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 33:27 Yeah, I've had lots of mentors who helped me to get where I am, and I'm still learning from other people as I go, it   Michael Hingson ** 33:35 gets to be a real challenge. And again, you can't force people to do things that never is going to work. So you can't necessarily do that. And   Stephanie O'Brien ** 33:45 I hate that sales tactic where you try and force or bully someone into it, go run to the bathroom room and buy my stuff, or else you're going to be a failure in business forever. I am so over that, and if someone tries to pressure me into it, that tells me that they care more about their agenda than they care about me, and then they don't respect my boundaries in that point, their odds of making a sale pretty much hit the floor and start digging.   Michael Hingson ** 34:06 Yeah, you know, I learned a long time ago that people who really sell and do it well recognize that what they truly are are educators or counselors. You don't force people to do things. You need to really look at what a person needs and wants, and if you've got something to help them, then you you bring that into the conversation, but you don't, and you shouldn't force people. I've had so many situations where I sold a product and the product that I well, I should say I wanted to sell a product, but my product wouldn't necessarily do what the customer really needed. There were issues, whatever they are. So what am I to do? I could try to just continue to push our product on them, but I know that in the end, that's going to backfire. It's. Not going to work, people are then going to hate me or resent me, and they're never going to want to do business with me. So it's important to not push something that doesn't work. But I also took it a step further, more than once, which is to say, here's what will work, even though my company doesn't happen to have it, and when you really develop that level of trust by being honest with someone and pointing out this is what really works in the long run, that's going to earn you a whole lot more than you would have ever gotten any other way.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 35:34 Absolutely, it can make you more of a go to authority. I mean, people need something. They can come to you, even if it's not what you offer, you may not be the provider, but you know the provider, and it helps to foster good relationships with other business owners. If you have people that you know is trust and can refer to, I recently sought out a grant a person who's an expert in Grant. I've noticed her on a networking event, and I'm not really looking for a grant myself. Don't have much interest in grants at the moment, but I've had a few people for some reason, approach me and ask me, Hey, can you help me get a grant? No, not remotely. And you know, the first few times I had nobody I could even refer to, I tried to find some people who I could refer to, but couldn't really find anyone appropriate. So I finally find this one just, Oh, thank goodness you actually help people to find grants. Like these people wanted me to help them find a grant. Never mind, apply for it. Find one in first place, and I can't do that like I could learn, but I don't want to. But then here's this person who specifically teaches people how to do it, though, even though it wasn't my expertise or even something I needed, I sought her out just so I'd have that ability to refer people next time.   Michael Hingson ** 36:36 Well, that's pretty important to be able to do. I in my case, I'm thinking of a particular incident where we, I and a sales guy, one of my sales people, who had set up an appointment to go see a customer, and they wanted his manager to come, which was me, and we went. And I'm unusual anyway. I mean, how often do you see a blind sales guy coming in, holding a laptop projector and doing other things like that. And I actually did the presentation, and I also happened to be very technical, and so I asked a lot of questions, and learned that our product wasn't going to do what these people needed. But by the time we were done with the whole presentation, I said, and you can probably see our product won't do what you need, and here's why. But then I did, and that's the first time I really did it. I took the next step and said, but here's a company, and here's what product really will do exactly what you need, and here's why. The result of that was that two weeks later, we got a call from the same company saying we really took what you said to heart, and now we have another project. And because of everything you taught us, we know that what you have to offer is exactly what we need. Just tell us what it's going to cost, and we will order it today. We're not even going to put it on for bid, and that's what trust is all about,   37:59 absolutely,   Michael Hingson ** 38:01 and it's, and it's so exciting, but it's, it's unfortunate that all too often, people don't really look at the whole value of developing that trusting relationship, and that's got to be a volitional part of whatever you do in coaching, or anything that we do in business, or anything in our lives?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 38:21 Yeah, I've had too many people try and pitch me without first, building that trusted. And even if it's a free thing, like a free webinar, there's no such thing as free, yeah, even a free webinar still costs time that I won't get back. So it's like and see when COVID just comes crashing into my inbox. Pitch first that tells me they care a lot more about their agenda than they do about me, especially if it's something that's clearly in applicable, like, No, I am not going to join your group for single mothers. I've never had a kid. I mean, granted, I have this cat, and she is kind of a toddler, but I've never had the kind of kids you teach people to work with.   Michael Hingson ** 38:54 Yeah? So you've, you've never had kids yet.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 38:58 I'm not really planning to have already got cats.   Michael Hingson ** 39:00 Yeah? Have you gotten married? No, so you're not even in that but you've got cats. Well, that's fine. Now, when my when my wife and I got married, we decided that we were going to have kids. She was in a wheelchair her whole life, and she said that she was concerned it would have too much of a bad effect on our body. And what we decided to do, in addition to having dogs and cats, was to welcome nieces and nephews into the house, because we could kick them out at the end of the day, and that worked out   Stephanie O'Brien ** 39:31 really well, yeah, just hop them up on sugar and send them back. Yeah, that's what my grandparents did,   Michael Hingson ** 39:37 yeah. Well, worked for them, right? Yep, you seem to be surviving as a result. Well, I didn't die. Yeah, you're still you're still coaching. So that's pretty cool. Well, let me ask you this, if I can, if someone is thinking about being a coach or selling their expertise, how do they determine. Or how can you help them determine whether they're really qualified? Or how can they decide that they're qualified?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 40:07 I'd say the big thing is just to ask yourself, can I consistently get people results in this area? Now, obviously that depends on the other person actually doing the work to get the results. But do you know how people can get results in a specific area in a repeatable, reliable way. It could be anything from your relationships, improving your relationships, improving your health, improving your business, and it doesn't even have to be the whole journey. As long as you can help people take one significant step, you can help improve their lives, like even if you can't help a person go from single to married, if you can, say, Help married couples to stop having a specific type of argument. And for that matter, the more specific the problem you solve, the more people who have that problem. I want to see, oh, that's exactly what I need you. I don't need this generic relationship advice. I need relationship advice. I want this thing in particular, like, think about when you're, say, having a technical issue, and you want to say, let's say last night, I was looking for how to widen the navigation bar in a WordPress site, and I see all these results for you, how to improve your navigation bar, how to make a navigation bar, how to change a navigation bar. No, I just want it wider. The only result I'm interested in clicking on is how to make it wider. It's the same thing with your customers. You know, the more specific the result you can help them to get, the more the people looking for it are going to say that's exactly what I need. So don't assume that you're disqualified if you can't help them with their entire journey. Just focus on what is one big result that I can help people get. If you know how to get that, help them get that result, then you can help them to do that,   Michael Hingson ** 41:42 and it might also be that you do what you can do. But again, like you said about the lady who you've met who does grants, you can also get people in touch with other people who may be able to augment the successes or the results that you've already achieved, who may be able to do it better than you? So that you create essentially a teaming approach, even though each of you are working individually to help this individual? Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 42:10 absolutely. And you can do it kind of sequentially or concurrently. You could have someone be offer a guest module in your coaching course, if you say, you help people with nine steps out of 10, but it's one step in the middle. Isn't your expertise that you can have a guest expert come in and present in your course. Or if you help them with one step of the journey, but not the subsequent step, once they're done working with you, you can refer them to somebody else. Or if they're not ready to work with you, let's say you help people get on stages and present, but they that only really works and can be monetized if the person has something worth selling to sell. So if you meet someone who wants to get on stages but has nothing worth selling, though, you could refer them back to me, and I could get them ready for your services,   Michael Hingson ** 42:52 right? It's a process. And again, a lot of people don't think they're they're capable of selling. They they don't have the self worth, or don't think they have the self worth. And even the whole concept of this podcast, as I've said to many people, one of the main reasons that I love doing this is I get to show our audience members that they're more unstoppable than unstoppable than they think they are. And whenever I hear someone say, I learned this from this particular podcast, and it really showed me how I can be better than I thought I was. That doesn't get better than that. Oh yeah. And even   Stephanie O'Brien ** 43:35 if you're just starting out, just starting out, can actually be kind of a superpower, as I was mentioning earlier in this interview, people can get so ingrained in their own expertise, it can become so second nature. They forget what other people don't know, which can result in overly broad or vague explanations. Like I've seen some mindset coaches saying stuff like, notice what stories you're telling about the telling yourself about this situation, or notice what limiting beliefs you have well, if not, unless you're trained for that, you're not going to notice what the story or what's a limiting belief versus what's just a fact. You don't know how to tell the difference. So that's an example of how a coach who's really in their own expertise can totally forget that other people don't know how to do what they do. For someone who's just starting out and who remembers the very vividly what it's like not to know these things. It's less likely to make that mistake, more likely to be able to put themselves in the client's shoes, understand what the client does and does not know, and explain it in ways that a person who's new to this can understand. I thought to say a more seasoned coach can't do that, but there is that risk that they'll forget. So if you're just starting out, it can be just easier to relate to people who are also starting out and who are just a step behind you.   Michael Hingson ** 44:44 How do you teach people who are clearly experts in what they do, but who have forgotten that they weren't always experts in the people they're dealing with aren't experts? How do you teach them to go back and recognize. Recognize that and remember those things that they've clearly forgotten that would make them so much better, because they could then relate better to other people,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 45:08 mostly by asking questions. Do I kind of come at it from the standpoint as if I was their client? Okay, you just told me to do this, but how exactly do I do it? What are the exact steps I need to take, or what questions can you ask me to help me to figure this out. Now I basically act like I was there. We don't necessarily role play, but I do ask questions as if I was their client and didn't know how to do this thing.   Michael Hingson ** 45:30 Yeah. What do you do to help the person who's say, fairly new to coaching and doesn't think that they're good enough? And how do you teach them to recognize that really maybe they are or or maybe they'll discover that they're really not. But how do you how do you deal with that?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 45:50 Um, I take one of the things I do is I take them through that exercise I did earlier with you. Write out the list of steps you take. Break it down into sub steps. I often remind them how being new can be a superpower. I also invite them to look at the results they've gotten for themselves and other people in the past. Have you healed this issue in yourself? Have you helped yourself to lose weight? Have you helped yourself to raise your kids better? Have you helped yourself to improve your health? Or have you helped other people? Is this something that other people come to you for advice, and have those other people gotten results from working with you. Now, if you've never really gotten results for yourself or for other people, then you might want to make sure that you're able to actually get those results before try to teach people, because if you don't know how to get the result, then you're really not qualified to coach but if you can get the result, then you know how you got the result and can replicate that process with other people, then you are ready to coach people. You are ready to help them to do what you know how to do. One of   Michael Hingson ** 46:46 the things that I have always done when I hire new sales people, or even today, when I'm talking to people who are fairly new and something that they've decided to explore, take at least a year and be a student. You should always be a student, but especially for the first year, play the student card. Don't hesitate to ask questions. Don't hesitate even to ask your customer questions, because the more you ask, the more you'll learn. Because mostly people really want you to succeed, and they want to succeed, and you're bringing something to the party, you may need to figure out what it is, but if you start by being a student, then you're really at least half the way there to figuring it all out.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 47:35 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, having a podcast can be good for that. You can interview people and get there to share all this free information, and they get exposure. You get free information, you get content to share with your audience. It's a great way to open doors.   Michael Hingson ** 47:49 Well, it's true, and you know, in the it works both ways, because hopefully, for example, when I ask questions or we're talking about different subjects, hopefully you get something out of it too, and that's, that's what makes it really fair,   Speaker 1 ** 48:05 that's important to have win wins, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 48:08 well, so clearly, you know, we're dealing with a lot of different kinds of environments, and you're dealing With a lot of people. What about the person who doesn't think they have the expertise and so they're reluctant to charge more or charge what they should be charging? I think I probably know the answer to this, but I'm going to, you know, ask anyway, what do you how do you help those people recognize, let's assume, that they do have the expertise to expertise, but they don't think they do.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 48:44 One thing I can help them to do is look at the results they get and see just how valuable it is for their clients. So for example, let's say you help somebody to sleep better at night and have more energy. Obviously, there are health benefits for that. Here, you are less likely to have diseases. You're less likely to get into a car crash because you were groggy. You're probably going to have a better immune system the breakdown. I could break it down by the various categories of life. What are the benefits in their health, of course, in their relationships, if they have more energy, if they're less cranky, if they're in a better mood, they'll be more pleasant to be around people who want to be around them more they'll probably have better relationships with their kid, their friends, their spouse, their boss, their clients, their coworkers, and understand relationships that's healthy. And also look at time. How much time are they wasting on doing things slow, hard way because they're groggy and brain foggy and unable to work well? Yeah, I encourage you to look at every different area of your life that it the client's problem is affecting and that would be affected positively by the solution you give. I think this will help remind you just how valuable your solution really is. And if you're not completely sure that you can help people to get results, you know, look at the results you've gotten for yourself. Look at the results you've gotten for others. If you. Do have a good track record of getting results, then you know that's the site that you already have proof that you can if you don't have a history of getting results, then you need to work on developing your skill set learning systems that can get results consistently, or look at some other area of your life where you've already gotten results. But yeah, the important thing is that you need to be able to get results. And of course, you do have to also be realistic about okay, you can teach people how to get these results. You can also do things with them to help maximize the chances that they actually do the things you're teaching them and thus get results. But you do have to recognize that some people are going to choose not to do the things, and they will therefore not get the results. So as long as you know that if your system is followed and will get results, you've done your part, the rest is also on them.   Michael Hingson ** 50:47 Yeah, and a lot of times they may not get results, and who knows specifically why, but it's really important that they understand why they're not getting results. And maybe it is only, and I don't want to mitigate it, but it's only they don't have the confidence to ask, or they don't have the confidence to to reach out to help somebody get the results, which is also part of what they need to work on.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 51:14 Yeah, one thing coach that I like did, instead of just asking, do you hold He did ask, Do you have any questions? But if the people on he was coaching with didn't in his group called, didn't have any questions, he'd ask them to give an update. You know, what were you working on this week? What results were you trying to get? What results did you get? And this often resulted in him finding things to coach on that the person hadn't thought to ask. So, yeah, it's important to check in with your clients to see what kind of results they're getting, what kind of results they're not getting, and if they're not getting results, then explore that with them. You know, why are you not getting results? What did you do the action steps? Okay, if so, did you do them right? Did you do them wrong? If they didn't do the action steps, why not? And how can we adjust your schedule so that you actually can fit them in? What kind of resistance is there against doing these action steps, and how can we clear that resistance? That's really important to stay in touch with your clients and to get consistent updates on what milestones they are or are not hitting and why they are not are not hitting them, and be be prepared to address those underlying issues. Because often, while you're working on doing something, questions will come up that you didn't think you had earlier. You you discover nuances to it that you didn't know about, or you'll meet mental resistance that you didn't realize you were going to have.   Michael Hingson ** 52:29 Part of it, though, is also the art of asking questions and the art of asking the right questions. I, for example, really don't like to ask yes or no questions, closed ended questions, if you will, because you don't learn much that way. And so that was also one of the things that I did with the customer we mentioned earlier. I'll always ask open ended questions, because I really want to get not only the information that they they have that I feel is important for me to have, but I also get to know them a lot better. When I ask open ended questions and get them to really give me a detailed response, I'll learn a lot about them as well, and I think that's extremely important.   53:12 Now that makes total sense,   Michael Hingson ** 53:15 yeah, because it's it's so important to be able to ask tell me more about this. Or what is it that you find doesn't really work here? Or why do you like that? And really get questions that will make people think that also helps keep me alert when I when I keep thinking of questions. So it works both ways.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 53:43 Yeah, I'd say the ability to ask the right questions is one of the most important things for a coach.   Michael Hingson ** 53:47 Yeah, and if you don't necessarily know the right question, again, asking some open ended questions, and sometimes you might even want to say, what else is there that you want to tell me about this, or tell me more about this, so that you get people to offer information? And I've been in situations where I wasn't sure what to ask, but I can always ask something that will get people to offer more, that will help me think about, oh, I need to ask about this. Yeah.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 54:18 And you could kind of write a list of the pieces of information that you need to know about your clients you know, like, say, going back to that relationship coach, example, the piece of things that you need to know in order to help someone

We begin with Alex Newman, who covers the recent results from an early-stage solid state battery technology company Ilika (IKA). It focuses on batteries for the ‘internet of things', metech and EVs, and shares have run up recently. Alex reveals what there is for investors to get excited about and what to be wary of.We move on to last week's annual Top 50 ETFs special report. Dave Baxter has refreshed the IC's best-buy list to provide readers and listeners with new ways to build the best portfolio while keeping an eye on costs. Listen to find out what made the list, what's been dropped and the challenges facing investors.Last up, results from Trifast (TRI), a fastener supplier, which is trying to bounce back from a difficult period. Christopher Akers unpacks what held the company back in recent years, how tariffs are impacting the business and the ways it's looking to become “more dynamic”. Listen to more podcasts from Investors' Chronicle on Apple, Spotify and YouTubeTimestamps1:20 Ilika17:09 Top 50 ETFs27:33 TrifastFind out more about these topics: IC Top 50 ETFsTrifast returns to profit as margins expand Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Venture beneath the surface as we explore astrology's most mysterious territory - the fourth house. This is where we cross the threshold of the Imum Coeli (IC), descending to "the bottom of the sky" to discover our deepest foundations.The fourth house holds the key to understanding your emotional inheritance - not just your physical home or family structure, but the psychic atmosphere you absorbed during your formative years. Like Odysseus longing to return home after years of wandering, we all carry this yearning for belonging deep within our souls.What masks did you wear in your family of origin? How do you automatically revert to childhood patterns when returning home? The fourth house reveals these personas and adaptation strategies, along with the ancestral legacies that shape your sense of identity and security.Drawing on rich mythological symbolism, we explore the Minotaur's labyrinth as a metaphor for family secrets and unspoken dynamics. Just as Theseus needed Ariadne's thread to navigate those twisted passages, we need consciousness to face what's been hidden in our family systems. By confronting these shadows with reverence rather than shame, we liberate tremendous energy previously used for repression.This house represents your roots, without which your tenth house achievements (your reach) cannot be sustained. By establishing a strong foundation through soul-making work in the fourth house, you prepare for the creative self-expression and individuation of the fifth house.Whether you're a seasoned astrologer or just beginning to explore your chart, this episode offers profound insights into your inner landscape and belonging. Subscribe now to continue our journey through the astrological houses, and consider supporting the show with a five-star review or by becoming a patron at patreon.com/onthesoulsterms.Artwork is by John Williams Waterhouse "Psyche Opening the Golden Box"Books Mentioned:The Twelve Houses by Howard SasportasThe Inner Planets and The Luminaries by Liz Greene and Howard SasportasPodcast Musician: Marlia CoeurPlease consider becoming a Patron to support the show!Go to OnTheSoulsTerms.com for more.

Brandon Tanguma is back with another solo recap, but this week he's here to cover all the major events that took place this weekend. Beginning with AEW's biggest show of the year, All In, culminating with Adam Page dethroning the Death Riders in a bloody Texas Death Match. NXT's Great American Bash emanated from the legendary Center Stage in Atlanta, with Ethan Page and Ricky Saints in a falls count any match and Blake Monroe's in-ring NXT television debut. Goldberg had his final match at Saturday Night's Main Event, but Seth Rollins' knee injury has thrown WWE's plans into limbo. Finally, WWE's second Evolution show with a stellar triple-threat match for the IC title, and a MITB cash-in from Naomi to end the night.Have a question or idea email us bulletcast2sweet@gmail.comPlease check out our What A Maneuver! Store: https://whatamaneuver.net/collections/bullet-castPlease check out our Pro Wrestling Tees Store: https://www.prowrestlingtees.com/bulletcastFollow Bullet Cast On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebulletcast/?hl=enFollow Bullet Cast On Twitter: https://twitter.com/BulletCastFollow Bullet Cast On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BulletCast2sweet/Subscribe to Bullet Cast On Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrKHzfruskD8imAVVmWAaSQBullet Cast Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/thebulletcast

In this episode we give our early predictions for WWE Summerslam 2025 in New Jersey! We break down the matches already announced including John Cena v Cody Rhodes in a WrestleMania rematch, CM Punk challenging Gunther, a unique tag team contest as Randy Orton teams with Jelly Roll to take on Drew McIntyre and Logan Paul, Queen of the Ring Winner Jade Cargill taking on Tiffany Stratton and Naomi defending her newly won Women's World Championship in a triple threat against Iyo Sky and Rhea Ripley! We also predict the other matches we expect to see including an epic multi-man match for Roman Reigns, Dominik Mysterio defending the IC title against AJ Styles, a potential return of Brie Bella to team with Nikki and Stephanie Vaquer and MORE!#wwe #summerslam #wwesummerslam #summerslam2025 #summerslamnewjersey #wwepredictions Our full podcast can be found anywhere you get your podcasts and we are hosted on:https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/a2thekCHECK OUT OUR MERCH ON PROWRESTLINGTEES!Pro Wrestling Tees: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://prowrestlingtees.com/a2thekwrestling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Teespring: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://teespring.com/stores/a2thekwrestling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠COME SAY HI!Instagram:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/a2thekwrestling/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@a2thekwrestling ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/A2theKWrestling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/a2thekwrestling/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠And make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel!YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/a2thekwrestling⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

You are in for a real treat on this episode. My guest this time is Greg Schwem. Greg is a corporate comedian. What is a corporate comedian? You probably can imagine that his work has to do with corporations, and you would be right. Greg will explain much better than I can. Mr. Schwem began his career as a TV journalist but eventually decided to take up what he really wanted to do, be a comedian. The story of how he evolved is quite fascinating by any standard. Greg has done comedy professionally since 1989. He speaks today mostly to corporate audiences. He will tell us how he does his work. It is quite interesting to hear how he has learned to relate to his audiences. As you will discover as Greg and I talk, we often work in the same way to learn about our audiences and thus how we get to relate to them. Greg has written three books. His latest one is entitled “Turning Gut Punches into Punch Lines: A Comedian's Journey Through Cancer, Divorce and Other Hilarious Stuff”. As Greg says, “Don't worry, it's not one of those whiny, ‘woe is me,' self- serving books. Instead, it's a hilarious account of me living the words I've been preaching to my audiences: You can always find humor in every situation, even the tough ones. Greg offers many interesting observations as he discusses his career and how he works. I think we all can find significant lessons we can use from his remarks. About the Guest: Hi! I'm Greg Schwem. a Chicago-based business humor speaker and MC who HuffPost calls “Your boss's favorite comedian.” I've traveled the world providing clean, customized laughs to clients such as Microsoft, IBM, McDonald's and even the CIA. I also write the bi-weekly Humor Hotel column for the Chicago Tribune syndicate. I believe every corporate event needs humor. As I often tell clients, “When times are good, people want to laugh. When times are bad, people need to laugh.” One Fortune 500 client summed things up perfectly, saying “You were fantastic and just what everybody needed during these times.” In September 2024 I released my third and most personal book, Turning Gut Punches into Punch Lines: A Comedian's Journey Through Cancer, Divorce and Other Hilarious Stuff. Don't worry, it's not one of those whiny, “woe is me,” self-serving books. Instead, it's a hilarious account of me living the words I've been preaching to my audiences: You can always find humor in every situation, even the tough ones. You can pick up a copy at Amazon or select book stores. Ways to connect with Greg: Website: www.gregschwem.com YouTube: www.youtube.com/gregschwem LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/gregschwem Instagram: www.instagram.com/gregschwem X: www.x.com/gregschwem About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:16 Hi everyone, and welcome to unstoppable mindset. Today we are going to definitely have some fun. I'll tell you about our guests in a moment, but first, I want to tell you about me. That'll take an hour or so. I am Michael Hingson, your host, and you're listening to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And I don't know, we may get inclusion or diversity into this, but our guest is Greg Schwem. Greg used to be a TV reporter, now he's a comedian, not sure which is funnier, but given some of the reporters I've seen on TV, they really should go into tonight club business. But anyway, Greg, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. I really appreciate you being here and taking the time   Greg Schwem ** 02:04 Well, Michael, it is an honor to be included on your show. I'm really looking forward to the next hour of conversation. I   Speaker 1 ** 02:10 told Greg a little while ago, one of my major life ambitions that I never got to do was to go to a Don Rickles concert and sit in the front row so that hopefully he would pick on me, so that I could say, Yeah, I saw you once on TV, and I haven't been able to see since. What do you think of that? You hockey puck, but I never got to do it. So very disappointed. But everybody has bucket list moments, everybody has, but they don't get around to I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. Well, the other one is, I love to pick on Mike Wallace. I did a radio show for six years opposite him in 60 minutes, and I always love to say that Wallace really had criminal tendencies, because he started out being an announcer in radio and he announced things like The Green Hornet and the Sky King and other shows where they had a lot of criminals. So I just figured he had to be associated with criminals somewhere in his life. Of course, everybody picked on him, and he had broad shoulders. And I again, I regret I never got to to meet him, which is sort of disappointing. But I did get to meet Peter Falk. That was kind of fun.   Greg Schwem ** 03:15 Mike Wallace to Peter Falk. Nice transition there. I know.   Michael Hingson ** 03:21 Well I am really glad you're with us. So why don't we start? We'll start with the serious part. Why don't you tell us, kind of about the early Greg schwim and growing up and all that sort of stuff, just to set the stage, as it were,   Greg Schwem ** 03:34 how far back you want to go? You want to go back to Little League, or you want to   Speaker 1 ** 03:37 just, oh, start at the beginning, a long time ago, right? I was a   Greg Schwem ** 03:41 very strange child. No, I you. You obviously introduced me as a as a comedian, and that is my full time job. And you also said that I was a former journalist, and that is my professional career. Yes, I went from, as I always like to say, I went from depressing people all day long, to making them laugh. And that's, that's kind of what I did. I always did want to be I majored in Journalism at Northwestern University, good journalism school. Originally, I always wanted to be a television reporter. That was as a professional career I was, I dabbled in comedy. Started when I was 16. That is the first time I ever got on stage at my school, my high school, and then at a comedy club. I was there one of the first comedy clubs in Chicago, a place called the comedy cottage. It was in the suburb of beautiful, beautiful suburb of Rosemont, Illinois, and they were one of the very, very first full time comedy clubs in the nation. And as a 16 year old kid, I actually got on stage and did five minutes here and five minutes there. And thought I was, I was hot stuff, but I never, ever thought I would do it for a living. I thought comedy would always be just a hobby. And I. Especially when I went to college, and I thought, okay, Northwestern is pretty good school, pretty expensive school. I should actually use my degree. And I did. I moved down to Florida, wrote for a newspaper called The Palm Beach post, which, don't let that title fool you. It's Palm Beach was a very small segment of of the area that it was, that it served, but I did comedy on the side, and just because I moved down there, I didn't know anybody, so I hung out at comedy clubs just to have something to do. And little by little, comedy in the late 80s, it exploded. Exploded. There were suddenly clubs popping up everywhere, and you were starting to get to know guys that were doing these clubs and were starting to get recognition for just being comedians. And one of them opened up a very, very good Club opened up about 10 minutes from my apartment in West Palm Beach, and I hung out there and started to get more stage time, and eventually started to realize at the same time that I was getting better as a comedian, I was becoming more disillusioned as a journalist in terms of what my bosses wanted me to report on and the tone they wanted me to use. And I just decided that I would I would just never be able to live with myself if I didn't try it, if I didn't take the the plunge into comedy, and that's what I did in 1989 and I've been doing it ever since. And my career has gone in multiple directions, as I think it needs to. If you're going to be in show business and sustain a career in show business, you have to wear a lot of different hats, which I feel like I've done.   Michael Hingson ** 06:40 So tell me more about that. What does that mean exactly?   Greg Schwem ** 06:43 Well, I mean, I started out as a what you would pretty much if somebody said, If you heard somebody say, I'm a comedian, they would envision some guy that just went to comedy clubs all the time, and that's what I did. I was just a guy that traveled by car all over the Midwest and the Southeast primarily, and did comedy clubs, but I quickly realized that was kind of a going nowhere way to attack it, to do comedy unless you were incredibly lucky, because there were so many guys doing it and so many clubs, and I just didn't see a future in it, and I felt like I had to separate myself from the pack a little bit. And I was living in Chicago, which is where I'm from, and still, still exist. Still reside in Chicago, and I started to get involved with a company that did live trade show presentations. So if you've ever been on a trade show floor and you see people, they're mostly actors and actresses that wear a headset and deliver a spiel, a pitch, like every, every twice an hour, about some company, some new product, and so forth. And I did that, and I started to write material about what I was seeing on trade show floors and putting it into my stand up act, stuff about business, stuff about technology, because I was Hawking a lot of new computers and things like that. This was the mid 90s when technology was exploding, and I started to put this into my stand up act. And then I'd have people come up to me afterwards and say, hey, you know those jokes you did about computers and tech support, if you could come down to our office, you know, we're having a golf tournament, we're having a Christmas party, we would love to hear that material. And little by little, I started transitioning my act into doing shows for the corporate market. I hooked up with a corporate agent, or the corporate agent heard about me, and started to open a lot of doors for me in terms of working for very large corporations, and that's pretty much what I've been doing. I stopped working clubs, and I transitioned, instead of being a comedian, I became a corporate humor speaker. And that's what I do, primarily to this day, is to speak at business conferences. Just kind of get people to loosen up, get them to laugh about what they do all day without without making it sound like I'm belittling what they do. And also when I'm not doing that, I work about eight to 10 weeks a year on cruise ships, performing for cruise audiences. So that's a nice getaway.   Speaker 1 ** 09:18 It's interesting since I mentioned Don Rickles earlier, years ago, I saw an interview that he did with Donahue, and one of the things that Don Rickles said, and after he said it, I thought about it. He said, I really don't want to pick on anyone who's going to be offended by me picking on them. He said, I try to watch really carefully, so that if it looks like somebody's getting offended, I'll leave them alone, because that's not what this is all about. It isn't about abusing people. It's about trying to get people to have fun, and if somebody's offended, I don't want to to pick on them, and I've heard a number of albums and other things with him and just. Noticed that that was really true. He wouldn't pick on someone unless they could take it and had a lot of fun with it. And I thought that was absolutely interesting, because that certainly wasn't, of course, the rep that he had and no, but it was   Greg Schwem ** 10:16 true. It is, and it doesn't take long to see as a as a comedian, when you're looking at an audience member and you're talking to them, it, you can tell very quickly, Are they enjoying this? Are they enjoying being the center of attention? A lot of people are, or are they uncomfortable with it? Now, I don't know that going in. I mean, I you know, of course. And again, that's a very small portion of my show is to talk to the audience, but it is something particularly today. I think audiences want to be more involved. I think they enjoy you talk you. Some of these, the new comedians in their 20s and 30s and so forth. Them, some of them are doing nothing, but what they call crowd work. So they're just doing 45 minutes of talking to the audience, which can be good and can be rough too, because you're working without a net. But I'm happy to give an audience a little bit of that. But I also have a lot of stuff that I want to say too. I mean, I work very hard coming up with material and and refining it, and I want to talk about what's going on in my life, too. So I don't want the audience to be the entire show, right?   Speaker 1 ** 11:26 And and they shouldn't be, because it isn't about that. But at the same time, it is nice to involve them. I find that as a keynote and public speaker, I find that true as well, though, is that audiences do like to be involved. And I do some things right at the outset of most talks to involve people, and also in involving them. I want to get them to last so that I start to draw them in, because later, when I tell the September 11 story, which isn't really a humorous thing. Directly,   Greg Schwem ** 12:04 i know i Good luck. I'm spinning 911 to make it I don't think I've ever heard anybody say, by the way, I was trapped in a building. Stick with me. It's kind of cute. It's got a funny ending. And   Speaker 1 ** 12:20 that's right, and it is hard I can, I can say humorous things along the way in telling the story, but, sure, right, but, but clearly it's not a story that, in of itself, is humorous. But what I realized over the years, and it's really dawned on me in the last four or five years is we now have a whole generation of people who have absolutely no memory of September 11 because they were children or they weren't even born yet. And I believe that my job is to not only talk about it, but literally to draw them into the building and have them walk down the stairs with me, and I have to be descriptive in a very positive way, so that they really are part of what's going on. And the reality is that I do hear people or people come up and say, we were with you when you were going down the stairs. And I think that's my job, because the reality is that we've got to get people to understand there are lessons to be learned from September 11, right? And the only real way to do that is to attract the audience and bring them in. And I think probably mostly, I'm in a better position to do that than most people, because I'm kind of a curious soul, being blind and all that, but it allows me to to draw them in and and it's fun to do that, actually. And I, and   Greg Schwem ** 13:52 I gotta believe, I mean, obviously I wasn't there, Michael, but I gotta believe there were moments of humor in people, a bunch of people going down the stairs. Sure, me, you put people get it's like, it's like when a bunch of people are in an elevator together, you know, I mean, there's I, when I look around and I try to find something humorous in a crowded and it's probably the same thing now, obviously it, you know, you got out in time. But I and, you know, don't that's the hotel phone, which I just hung up so but I think that I can totally see where you're going from, where, if you're if you're talking to people who have no recollection of this, have no memory where you're basically educating them on the whole event. I think you then you have the opportunity to tell the story in whatever way you see fit. And I think that however you choose to do it is there's no wrong way to do it, I guess is what I'm trying to get at.   Speaker 1 ** 14:55 Well, yeah, I think the wrong way is to be two. Graphic and morbid and morbid, but one of the things that I talk about, for example, is that a colleague of mine who was with me, David Frank, at about the 50th floor, suddenly said, Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And as as I tell the audience, typically, I as as you heard my introduction at the beginning, I have a secondary teaching credential. And one of the things that you probably don't know about teachers is that there's a secret course that every teacher takes called Voice 101, how to yell at students and and so what I tell people is that when David said that, I just said in my best teacher voice, stop it, David, if Roselle and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he told me later that that brought him out of his funk, and he ended up walking a floor below me and shouting up to me everything he saw. And it was just mainly, everything is clear, like I'm on floor 48 he's on 47/47 floor. Everything is good here, and what I have done for the past several years in telling that part of the story is to say David, in reality, probably did more to keep people calm and focused as we went down the stairs than anyone else, because anyone within the sound of his voice heard someone who was focused and sounded okay. You know, hey, I'm on the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is not stopping. And it it helps people understand that we all had to do what we could to keep everyone from not panicking. And it almost happened a few times that people did, but we worked at it. But the i The idea is that it helps draw people in, and I think that's so important to do for my particular story is to draw them in and have them walk down the stairs with me, which is what I do, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Now I'm curious about something that keeps coming up. I hear it every so often, public speaker, Speaker experts and people who are supposedly the great gurus of public speaking say you shouldn't really start out with a joke. And I've heard that so often, and I'm going give me a break. Well, I think, I think it depends, yeah, I think   Greg Schwem ** 17:33 there's two schools of thought to that. I think if you're going to start out with a joke, it better be a really good one, or something that you either has been battle tested, because if it doesn't work now, you, you know, if you're hoping for a big laugh, now you're saying, Well, you're a comedian, what do you do? You know, I mean, I, I even, I just sort of work my way into it a little bit. Yeah, and I'm a comedian, so, and, you know, it's funny, Michael, I will get, I will get. I've had CEOs before say to me, Hey, you know, I've got to give this presentation next week. Give me a joke I can tell to everybody. And I always decline. I always it's like, I don't need that kind of pressure. And it's like, I can, I can, I can tell you a funny joke, but,   Michael Hingson ** 18:22 but you telling the   Greg Schwem ** 18:23 work? Yeah, deliver it. You know, I can't deliver it for you. Yeah? And I think that's what I also, you know, on that note, I've never been a big fan of Stand Up Comedy classes, and you see them all popping up all over the place. Now, a lot of comedy clubs will have them, and usually the you take the class, and the carrot at the end is you get to do five minutes at a comedy club right now, if that is your goal, if you're somebody who always like, Gosh, I wonder what it would like be like to stand up on stage and and be a comedian for five minutes. That's something I really like to try. By all means, take the class, all right. But if you think that you're going to take this class and you're going to emerge a much funnier person, like all of a sudden you you weren't funny, but now you are, don't take the class, yeah? And I think, sadly, I think that a lot of people sign up for these classes thinking the latter, thinking that they will all of a sudden become, you know, a comedian. And it doesn't work that way. I'm sorry you cannot teach unfunny people to be funny. Yeah, some of us have the gift of it, and some of us don't. Some of us are really good with our hands, and just know how to build stuff and how to look at things and say, I can do that. And some of us, myself included, definitely do not. You know, I think you can teach people to be more comfortable, more comfortable in front of an audience and. Correct. I think that is definitely a teachable thing, but I don't think that you can teach people to be funnier   Speaker 1 ** 20:10 and funnier, and I agree with that. I tend to be amazed when I keep hearing that one of the top fears in our world is getting up in front of an audience and talking with them, because people really don't understand that audiences, whatever you're doing, want you to succeed, and they're not against you, but we have just conditioned ourselves collectively that speaking is something to be afraid of?   Greg Schwem ** 20:41 Yes, I think, though it's, I'm sure, that fear, though, of getting up in front of people has only probably been exacerbated and been made more intense because now everybody in the audience has a cell phone and to and to be looking out at people and to see them on their phones. Yeah, you're and yet, you prepped all day long. You've been nervous. You've been you probably didn't sleep the night before. If you're one of these people who are afraid of speaking in public, yeah, and then to see people on their phones. You know, it used to bother me. It doesn't anymore, because it's just the society we live in. I just, I wish, I wish people could put their phones down and just enjoy laughing for 45 minutes. But unfortunately, our society can't do that anymore, so I just hope that I can get most of them to stop looking at it.   Speaker 1 ** 21:32 I don't make any comments about it at the beginning, but I have, on a number of occasions, been delivering a speech, and I hear a cell phone ring, and I'll stop and go, Hello. And I don't know for sure what the person with the cell phone does, but by the same token, you know they really shouldn't be on their phone and and it works out, okay, nobody's ever complained about it. And when I just say hello, or I'll go Hello, you don't say, you know, and things like that, but, but I don't, I don't prolong it. I'll just go back to what I was talking about. But I remember, when I lived in New Jersey, Sandy Duncan was Peter Pan in New York. One night she was flying over the audience, and there was somebody on his cell phone, and she happened to be going near him, and she just kicked the phone out of his hand. And I think that's one of the things that started Broadway in saying, if you have a cell phone, turn it off. And those are the announcements that you hear at the beginning of any Broadway performance today.   Greg Schwem ** 22:39 Unfortunately, people don't abide by that. I know you're still hearing cell phones go off, yeah, you know, in Broadway productions at the opera or wherever, so people just can't and there you go. There that just shows you're fighting a losing battle.   Speaker 1 ** 22:53 Yeah, it's just one of those things, and you got to cope with it.   Greg Schwem ** 22:58 What on that note, though, there was, I will say, if I can interrupt real quick, there was one show I did where nobody had their phone. It was a few years ago. I spoke at the CIA. I spoke for some employees of the CIA. And this might, this might freak people out, because you think, how is it that America's covert intelligence agency, you think they would be on their phones all the time. No, if you work there, you cannot have your phone on you. And so I had an audience of about 300 people who I had their total attention because there was no other way to they had no choice but to listen to me, and it was wonderful. It was just a great show, and I it was just so refreshing. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 23:52 and mostly I don't hear cell phones, but they do come up from time to time. And if they do, then you know it happens. Now my one of my favorite stories is I once spoke in Maryland at the Department of Defense, which anybody who knows anything knows that's the National Security Agency, but they call it the Department of Defense, as if we don't know. And my favorite story is that I had, at the time, a micro cassette recorder, and it died that morning before I traveled to Fort Meade, and I forgot to just throw it away, and it was in my briefcase. So I got to the fort, they searched, apparently, didn't find it, but on the way out, someone found it. They had to get a bird Colonel to come to decide what to do with it. I said, throw it away. And they said, No, we can't do that. It's yours. And they they decided it didn't work, and they let me take it and I threw it away. But it was so, so funny to to be at the fort and see everybody running around crazy. See, what do we do with this micro cassette recorder? This guy's been here for an hour. Yeah. So it's it. You know, all sorts of things happen. What do you think about you know, there's a lot of discussion about comedians who use a lot of foul language in their shows, and then there are those who don't, and people seem to like the shock value of that.   Greg Schwem ** 25:25 Yeah, I'm very old school in that. I guess my short answer is, No, I've never, ever been one of those comedians. Ever I do a clean show, I actually learned my lesson very early on. I think I think that I think comedians tend to swear because when they first start out, out of nerves, because I will tell you that profanity does get laughter. And I've always said, if you want to, if you want to experiment on that, have a comedian write a joke, and let's say he's got two shows that night. Let's say he's got an eight o'clock show and a 10 o'clock show. So let's say he does the joke in the eight o'clock and it's, you know, the cadence is bumper, bump up, bump up, bump up, punch line. Okay, now let's and let's see how that plays. Now let's now he does the 10 o'clock show and it's bumper, bump up, bump up F and Okay, yeah, I pretty much guarantee you the 10 o'clock show will get a bigger laugh. Okay? Because he's sort of, it's like the audience is programmed like, oh, okay, we're supposed to laugh at that now. And I think a lot of comedians think, Aha, I have just discovered how to be successful as a comedian. I will just insert the F word in front of every punch line, and you can kind of tell what comedians do that and what comedians I mean. I am fine with foul language, but have some jokes in there too. Don't make them. Don't make the foul word, the joke, the joke, right? And I can say another thing nobody has ever said to me, I cannot hire you because you're too clean. I've never gotten that. And all the years I've been doing this, and I know there's lots of comedians who who do work blue, who have said, you know, who have been turned down for that very reason. So I believe, if you're a comedian, the only way to get better is to work any place that will have you. Yeah, and you can't, so you might as well work clean so you can work any place that will have you, as opposed to being turned away.   Speaker 1 ** 27:30 Well, and I, and I know what, what happened to him and all that, but at the same time, I grew up listening to Bill Cosby and the fact that he was always clean. And, yeah, I understand everything that happened, but you can't deny and you can't forget so many years of humor and all the things that that he brought to the world, and the joy he brought to the world in so many ways.   Greg Schwem ** 27:57 Oh, yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And he Yeah, he worked everywhere. Jay Leno is another one. I mean, Jay Leno is kind of on the same wavelength as me, as far as don't let the profanity become the joke. You know, Eddie Murphy was, you know, was very foul. Richard Pryor, extremely foul. I but they also, prior, especially, had very intelligent material. I mean, you can tell and then if you want to insert your F bombs and so forth, that's fine, but at least show me that you're trying. At least show me that you came in with material in addition to the   Speaker 1 ** 28:36 foul language. The only thing I really have to say about all that is it? Jay Leno should just stay away from cars, but that's another story.   Greg Schwem ** 28:43 Oh, yeah, it's starting to   Greg Schwem ** 28:47 look that way. Yeah, it   Michael Hingson ** 28:49 was. It was fun for a while, Jay, but yeah, there's just two. It's like, Harrison Ford and plains. Yeah, same concept. At some point you're like, this isn't working out. Now I submit that living here in Victorville and just being out on the streets and being driven around and all that, I am firmly convinced, given the way most people drive here, that the bigoted DMV should let me have a license, because I am sure I can drive as well as most of the clowns around here. Yeah, so when they drive, I have no doubt. Oh, gosh. Well, you know, you switched from being a TV journalist and so on to to comedy. Was it a hard choice? Was it really difficult to do, or did it just seem like this is the time and this is the right thing to do. I was   Greg Schwem ** 29:41 both, you know, it was hard, because I really did enjoy my job and I liked, I liked being a TV news reporter. I liked, I liked a job that was different every day once you got in there, because you didn't know what they were going to send you out to do. Yes, you had. To get up and go to work every day and so forth. So there's a little bit of, you know, there's a little bit of the mundane, just like there is in any job, but once you were there, I liked, just never known what the day would bring, right? And and I, I think if I'd stayed with it, I think I think I could have gone pretty far, particularly now, because the now it's more people on TV are becoming more entertainers news people are becoming, yeah, they are. A lot of would be, want to be comedians and so forth. And I don't particularly think that's appropriate, but I agree. But so it was hard to leave, but it gets back to what I said earlier. At some point, you got to say, I was seeing comedians making money, and I was thinking, gosh, you know, if they're making money at this I I'm not hilarious, but I know I'm funnier than that guy. Yeah, I'm funnier than her, so why not? And I was young, and I was single, and I thought, if I if I don't try it now, I never will. And, and I'll bet there's just some hilarious people out there, yeah, who who didn't ever, who just were afraid   Michael Hingson ** 31:14 to take that chance, and they wouldn't take the leap, yeah,   Greg Schwem ** 31:16 right. And now they're probably kicking themselves, and I'm sure maybe they're very successful at what they do, but they're always going to say, what if, if I only done this? I don't ever, I don't, ever, I never, ever wanted to say that. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 31:31 well, and there's, there's something to be said for being brave and stepping out and doing something that you don't expect, or that you didn't expect, or that you weren't sure how it was going to go, but if you don't try, then you're never going to know just how, how much you could really accomplish and how much you can really do. And I think that the creative people, whatever they're being creative about, are the people who do step out and are willing to take a chance.   Greg Schwem ** 31:59 Yeah, yeah. And I told my kids that too. You know, it's just like, if it's something that you're passionate about, do it. Just try it. If it doesn't work out, then at least you can say I tried   Speaker 1 ** 32:09 it and and if it doesn't work out, then you can decide, what do I need to do to figure out why it didn't work out, or is it just not me? I want   Greg Schwem ** 32:18 to keep going? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 32:21 So what is the difference between being a nightclub comedian and a corporate comedian? Because they are somewhat different. I think I know the answer. But what would you say that the differences between them? I think   Greg Schwem ** 32:33 the biggest thing is the audiences. I think when you when you are a nightclub comedian, you are working in front of people who are there to be entertained. Yeah, they, they paid money for that. That's what they're expecting. They, they, at some point during the day, they said, Hey, let's, let's go laugh tonight. That's what we really want to do when you're working in front of a corporate audiences. That's not necessarily the case. They are there. I primarily do business conferences and, you know, association meetings and so forth. And I'm just one cog in the wheel of a whole day's worth of meetings are, for the most part, very dry and boring, maybe certainly necessary educational. They're learning how to do their job better or something. And then you have a guy like me come in, and people aren't always ready to laugh, yeah, despite the fact that they probably need to, but they just they're not always in that mindset. And also the time of day. I mean, I do a lot of shows at nine in the morning. I do shows after lunch, right before lunch. I actually do very few shows in the evening, believe it or not. And so then you you have to, you kind of have to, in the while you're doing your act or your presentation or your speech, as I call it, you kind of have to let them know that it is okay. What you're doing is okay, and they should be okay with laughing. They shouldn't be looking around the whole time wondering if other people are laughing. You know, can I, can I? Can I tell you a quick story about how I drive that point home. Why not? Yeah, it's, I'll condense it into like five minutes. I mentioned that I worked on that I work on cruise ships occasionally, and I one night I was performing, and it was the first night of the cruise. And if anybody's ever been on a cruise, note, the first night, first night entertainers don't like the first night because people are tired. You know, they're they're a little edgy because they've been traveling all day. They're they're confused because they're not really sure where they're going on a ship. And the ones that have got it figured out usually over serve themselves because they're on vacation. So you put all that, so I'm doing my show on the first. Night, and it's going very well. And about five, six minutes in, I do a joke. Everybody laughs. Everybody shuts up. And from the back of the room in total darkness, I hear hat just like that. And I'm like, All right, you know, probably over served. So the rule of comedy is that everybody gets like. I was like, I'll let it go once, yeah. So I just kind of looked off in that direction, didn't say anything. Kept going with my active going with my act. About 10 minutes later, same thing happens. I tell a joke. Everybody laughs. Everybody shuts up. Hat now I'm like, Okay, I have got to, I've got to address the elephant in the room. So I think I just made some comment, like, you know, I didn't know Roseanne Barr was on this cruise, you know, because that was like the sound of the Yeah. Okay, everybody laugh. Nothing happened about five minutes later. It happens a third time. And now I'm just like, this is gonna stop. I'm going to put a stop to this. And I just fired off. I can't remember, like, three just like, hey man, you know you're you're just a little behind everybody else in this show and probably in life too, that, you know, things like that, and it never happened again. So I'm like, okay, mission accomplished on my part. Comedians love it when we can shut up somebody like that. Anyway. Show's over, I am out doing a meet and greet. Some guy comes up to me and he goes, hey, hey, you know that kid you were making fun of is mentally handicapped. And now, of course, I don't know this, but out of the corner of my eye, I see from the other exit a man pushing a son, his son in a wheelchair out of the showroom. And I'm just like, Oh, what have I done? And yeah. And of course, when you're on a cruise, you're you're on a cruise. When you're a cruise ship entertainer, you have to live with your audience. So I couldn't hide. I spent like the next three days, and it seemed like wherever I was, the man and his son in the wheelchair were nearby. And finally, on the fourth day, I think was, I was waiting for an elevator. Again, 3500 people on this ship, okay, I'm waiting for an elevator. The elevator door opens. Guess who are the only two people the elevator, the man and his son. And I can't really say I'll wait for the next one. So I get on, and I said to this the father, I said, I just want you to know I had no idea. You know, I'm so sorry. I can't see back there, this kind of thing. And the dad looks at me. He puts his hand up to stop me, and he points to me, and he goes, I thought you were hysterical. And it was, not only was it relief, but it kind of, it's sort of a lesson that if you think something is funny, you should laugh at it. Yeah. And I think sometimes in corporate America, my point in this. I think sometimes when you do these corporate shows, I think that audience members forget that. I think very busy looking around to see if their immediate boss thinks it's funny, and eventually everybody's looking at the CEO to see if they're like, you know, I think if you're doing it that way, if that's the way you're you're approaching humor. You're doing yourself a disservice, if right, stopping yourself from laughing at something that you think is funny.   Speaker 1 ** 38:09 I do think that that all too often the problem with meetings is that we as a as a country, we in corporations, don't do meetings, right anyway, for example, early on, I heard someone at a convention of the National Federation of the Blind say he was the new executive director of the American Foundation for the Blind, and he said, I have instituted a policy, no Braille, no meetings. And what that was all about was to say, if you're going to have a meeting, you need to make sure that all the documentation is accessible to those who aren't going to read the print. I take it further and say you shouldn't be giving out documentation during the meeting. And you can use the excuse, well, I got to get the latest numbers and all that. And my point is, you shouldn't be giving out documentation at a meeting, because the meeting is for people to communicate and interact with each other. And if you're giving out papers and so on, what are people going to do? They're going to read that, and they're not going to listen to the speakers. They're not going to listen to the other people. And we do so many things like that, we've gotten into a habit of doing things that become so predictable, but also make meetings very boring, because who wants to look at the papers where you can be listening to people who have a lot more constructive and interesting things to say anyway?   Greg Schwem ** 39:36 Yeah, yeah. I think, I think COVID definitely changed, some for the some for the better and some for the worse. I think that a lot of things that were done at meetings COVID and made us realize a lot of that stuff could be done virtually, that you didn't have to just have everybody sit and listen to people over and over and over again.   Speaker 1 ** 39:58 But unless you're Donald Trump. Up. Yeah, that's another story.   Greg Schwem ** 40:02 Yes, exactly another podcast episode. But, yeah, I do think also that. I think COVID changed audiences. I think, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about crowd work, right, and audiences wanting to be more involved. I think COVID precipitated that, because, if you think about it, Michael, for two and a half years during COVID, our sole source of entertainment was our phone, right? Which meant that we were in charge of the entertainment experience. You don't like something, swipe left, scroll down, scroll, scroll, scroll, find something else. You know, that kind of thing. I'm not I'm not entertained in the next four or five seconds. So I'm going to do this. And I think when live entertainment returned, audiences kind of had to be retrained a little bit, where they had to learn to sit and listen and wait for the entertainment to come to them. And granted, it might not happen immediately. It might not happen in the first five seconds, but you have to just give give people like me a chance. It will come to you. It will happen, but it might not be on your timetable,   Speaker 1 ** 41:13 right? Well, and I think that is all too true for me. I didn't find didn't find COVID to be a great inconvenience, because I don't look at the screen anyway, right? So in a sense, for me, COVID wasn't that much of a change, other than not being in an office or not being physically at a meeting, and so I was listening to the meeting on the computer, and that has its nuances. Like you don't necessarily get the same information about how everyone around you is reacting, but, but it didn't bother me, I think, nearly as much as it did everyone else who has to look at everyone. Of course, I have no problems picking on all those people as well, because what I point out is that that disabilities has to be redefined, because every one of you guys has your own disability. You're light dependent, and you don't do well when there's dark, when, when the dark shows up and and we now have an environment where Thomas Edison invented the electric light bulb, and we've spent the last 147 years doing everything we can to make sure that light is pretty ubiquitous, but it doesn't change a thing when suddenly the power goes out and you don't have immediate access to light. So that's as much a disability as us light, independent people who don't   Greg Schwem ** 42:36 care about that, right? Right? I hear, I agree, but it is but   Speaker 1 ** 42:41 it is interesting and and it is also important that we all understand each other and are willing to tolerate the fact that there are differences in people, and we need to recognize that with whatever we're doing.   42:53 Yeah, I agree.   Speaker 1 ** 42:57 What do you think about so today, we have obviously a really fractured environment and fractured country, and everyone's got their own opinions, and nobody wants to talk about anything, especially politics wise. How do you think that's all affecting comedy and what you get to do and what other people are doing?   Greg Schwem ** 43:18 Well, I think Pete, I think there's, there's multiple answers to that question too. I think, I think it makes people nervous, wondering what the minute a comedian on stage brings up politics, the minute he starts talking about a politician, whether it's our president, whether it's somebody else, you can sense a tension in the room a little bit, and it's, it's, I mean, it's funny. I, one of my best friends in comedy, got to open for another comedian at Carnegie Hall a couple of years ago, and I went to see him, and I'm sitting way up in the top, and he is just crushing it. And then at one point he he brought up, he decided to do an impression of Mitch McConnell, which he does very well. However, the minute he said, Mitch McConnell, I you could just sense this is Carnegie freaking Hall, and after the show, you know, he and I always like to dissect each other's shows. That's what comedians do. And I just said to him, I go. Why did you decide to insert Mitch McConnell in there? And I, and I didn't say it like, you moron, that was stupid, yeah, but I was genuinely curious. And he just goes, well, I just really like doing that bit, and I like doing that voice and so forth, but, and it's not like the show crashed and burned afterwards. No, he did the joke, and then he got out of it, and he went on to other stuff, and it was fine, but I think that people are just so on their guard now, yeah, and, and that's why, you know, you know Jay Leno always said he was an equal opportunity offender. I think you will do better with politics if you really want. Insert politics into your act. I think he would be better making fun of both sides. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. And I think too often comedians now use the the stage as kind of a Bully, bully pulpit, like I have microphone and you don't. I am now going to give you my take on Donald Trump or the Democrats or whatever, and I've always said, talk about anything you want on stage, but just remember, you're at a comedy club. People came to laugh. So is there a joke in here? Yeah, or are you just ranting because you gotta be careful. You have to get this off your chest, and your way is right. It's, it's, you know, I hate to say it, but that's, that's why podcast, no offense, Michael, yours, is not like this. But I think one of the reasons podcasters have gotten so popular is a lot of people, just a lot of podcast hosts see a podcast is a chance to just rant about whatever's on their mind. And it's amazing to me how many podcast hosts that are hosted by comedians have a second guy have a sidekick to basically laugh and agree with whatever that person says. I think Joe Rogan is a classic example, and he's one of the most popular ones. But, and I don't quite understand that, because you know, if you're a comedian, you you made the choice to work solo, right? So why do you need somebody else with you?   Speaker 1 ** 46:33 I'm I'm fairly close to Leno. My remark is a little bit different. I'm not so much an equal opportunity offender as I am an equal opportunity abuser. I'll pick on both sides if politics comes into it at all, and it's and it's fun, and I remember when George W Bush was leaving the White House, Letterman said, Now we're not going to have anybody to joke about anymore. And everyone loved it. But still, I recognize that in the world today, people don't want to hear anything else. Don't confuse me with the facts or any of that, and it's so unfortunate, but it is the way it is, and so it's wiser to stay away from a lot of that, unless you can really break through the barrier,   Greg Schwem ** 47:21 I think so. And I also think that people, one thing you have to remember, I think, is when people come to a comedy show, they are coming to be entertained. Yeah, they are coming to kind of escape from the gloom and doom that unfortunately permeates our world right now. You know? I mean, I've always said that if you, if you walked up to a comedy club on a Saturday night, and let's say there were 50 people waiting outside, waiting to get in, and you asked all 50 of them, what do you hope happens tonight? Or or, Why are you here? All right, I think from all 50 you would get I would just like to laugh, yeah, I don't think one of them is going to say, you know, I really hope that my opinions on what's happening in the Middle East get challenged right now, but he's a comedian. No one is going to say that. No, no. It's like, I hope I get into it with the comedian on stage, because he thinks this way about a woman's right to choose, and I think the other way. And I really, really hope that he and I will get into an argument about to the middle of the   Speaker 1 ** 48:37 show. Yeah, yeah. That's not why people come?   Greg Schwem ** 48:40 No, it's not. And I, unfortunately, I think again, I think that there's a lot of comedians that don't understand that. Yeah, again, talk about whatever you want on stage, but just remember that your your surroundings, you if you build yourself as a comedian,   48:56 make it funny. Yeah, be funny.   Speaker 1 ** 49:00 Well, and nowadays, especially for for you, for me and so on, we're we're growing older and and I think you point out audiences are getting younger. How do you deal with that?   Greg Schwem ** 49:12 Well, what I try to do is I a couple of things. I try to talk as much as I can about topics that are relevant to a younger generation. Ai being one, I, one of the things I do in my my show is I say, oh, you know, I I really wasn't sure how to start off. And when you're confused these days, you you turn to answer your questions. You turn to chat GPT, and I've actually written, you know, said to chat GPT, you know, I'm doing a show tonight for a group of construction workers who work in the Midwest. It's a $350 million company, and it says, try to be very specific. Give me a funny opening line. And of course, chat GPT always comes up with some. Something kind of stupid, which I then relate to the audience, and they love that, you know, they love that concept. So I think there's, obviously, there's a lot of material that you can do on generational differences, but I, I will say I am very, very aware that my audience is, for the most part, younger than me now, unless I want to spend the rest of my career doing you know, over 55 communities, not that they're not great laughers, but I also think there's a real challenge in being older than your audience and still being able to make them laugh. But I think you have to remember, like you said, there's there's people now that don't remember 911 that have no concept of it, yeah, so don't be doing references from, say, the 1980s or the early 1990s and then come off stage and go, Man, nobody that didn't hit at all. No one, no one. They're stupid. They don't get it. Well, no, they, they, it sounds they don't get it. It's just that they weren't around. They weren't around, right? So that's on you.   Speaker 1 ** 51:01 One of the things that you know people ask me is if I will do virtual events, and I'll do virtual events, but I also tell people, the reason I prefer to do in person events is that I can sense what the audience is doing, how they're reacting and what they feel. If I'm in a room speaking to people, and I don't have that same sense if I'm doing something virtually, agreed same way. Now for me, at the same time, I've been doing this now for 23 years, so I have a pretty good idea in general, how to interact with an audience, to draw them in, even in a virtual environment, but I still tend to be a little bit more careful about it, and it's just kind of the way it is, you know, and you and you learn to deal with it well for you, have you ever had writer's block, and how did you deal with it?   Greg Schwem ** 51:57 Yes, I have had writer's block. I don't I can't think of a single comedian who's never had writer's block, and if they say they haven't, I think they're lying when I have writer's block, the best way for me to deal with this and just so you know, I'm not the kind of comedian that can go that can sit down and write jokes. I can write stories. I've written three books, but I can't sit down and just be funny for an hour all by myself. I need interaction. I need communication. And I think when I have writer's block, I tend to go out and try and meet strangers and can engage them in conversation and find out what's going on with them. I mean, you mentioned about dealing with the younger audience. I am a big believer right now in talking to people who are half my age. I like doing that in social settings, because I just, I'm curious. I'm curious as to how they think. I'm curious as to, you know, how they spend money, how they save money, how what their hopes and dreams are for the future, what that kind of thing, and that's the kind of stuff that then I'll take back and try and write material about. And I think that, I think it's fun for me, and it's really fun to meet somebody who I'll give you a great example just last night. Last night, I was I there's a there's a bar that I have that's about 10 a stone's throw from my condo, and I love to stop in there and and every now and then, sometimes I'll sit there and I won't meet anybody, and sometimes different. So there was a guy, I'd say he's probably in his early 30s, sitting too over, and he was reading, which I find intriguing, that people come to a bar and read, yeah, people do it, I mean. And I just said to him, I go, and he was getting ready to pay his bill, and I just said, if you don't mind me asking, What are you reading? And he's like, Oh, it's by Ezra Klein. And I go, you know, I've listened to Ezra Klein before. And he goes, Yeah, you know? He says, I'm a big fan. And debt to debt to dad. Next thing, you know, we're just, we're just riffing back and forth. And I ended up staying. He put it this way, Michael, it took him a very long time to pay his bill because we had a conversation, and it was just such a pleasure to to people like that, and I think that, and it's a hard thing. It's a hard thing for me to do, because I think people are on their guard, a little bit like, why is this guy who's twice my age talking to me at a bar? That's that seems a little weird. And I would get that. I can see that. But as I mentioned in my latest book, I don't mean because I don't a whole chapter to this, and I I say in the book, I don't mean you any harm. I'm not trying to hit on you, or I'm not creepy old guy at the bar. I am genuinely interested in your story. And. In your life, and and I just, I want to be the least interesting guy in the room, and that's kind of how I go about my writing, too. Is just you, you drive the story. And even though I'm the comedian, I'll just fill in the gaps and make them funny.   Speaker 1 ** 55:15 Well, I know that I have often been invited to speak at places, and I wondered, What am I going to say to this particular audience? How am I going to deal with them? They're they're different than what I'm used to. What I found, I guess you could call that writer's block, but what I found is, if I can go early and interact with them, even if I'm the very first speaker, if I can interact with them beforehand, or if there are other people speaking before me, invariably, I will hear things that will allow me to be able to move on and give a relevant presentation specifically to that group, which is what it's really all about. And so I'm with you, and I appreciate it, and it's good to get to the point where you don't worry about the block, but rather you look at ways to move forward and interact with people and make it fun, right,   Greg Schwem ** 56:13 right? And I do think people, I think COVID, took that away from us a little bit, yeah, obviously, but I but, and I do think people missed that. I think that people, once you get them talking, are more inclined to not think that you're you have ulterior motives. I think people do enjoy putting their phones down a little bit, but it's, it's kind of a two way street when I, when I do meet people, if it's if it's only me asking the questions, eventually I'm going to get tired of that. Yeah, I think there's a, there has to be a reciprocity thing a little bit. And one thing I find is, is with the Gen Z's and maybe millennials. They're not, they're not as good at that as I think they could be. They're more they're they're happy to talk about themselves, but they're not really good at saying so what do you do for a living? Or what you know, tell me about you. And I mean, that's how you learn about other people. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 57:19 tell me about your your latest book, Turning gut punches into punchlines. That's a interesting title, yeah, well, the more   Greg Schwem ** 57:26 interesting is the subtitle. So it's turning gut punches into punch punch lines, A Comedian's journey through cancer, divorce and other hilarious stuff.   Speaker 1 ** 57:35 No, like you haven't done anything in the world. Okay, right? So   Greg Schwem ** 57:38 other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln. Yeah, exactly. See, now you get that reference. I don't know if I could use that on stage, but anyway, depend on your audience. But yeah, they're like, What's he talking   Speaker 1 ** 57:50 who's Lincoln? And I've been to Ford theater too, so that's okay, yes, as have I. So it was much later than, than, well, than Lincoln, but that's okay.   Greg Schwem ** 57:58 You're not that old, right? No. Well, okay, so as the title, as the title implies, I did have sort of a double, double gut punch, it just in the last two years. So I, I got divorced late in life, after 29 years of marriage. And while that was going on, I got a colon cancer diagnosis and and at this end, I was dealing with all this while also continuing work as a humor speaker, okay, as a comedian. And I just decided I got it. First of all, I got a very clean bill of health. I'm cancer free. I am finally divorced so and I, I started to think, I wonder if there's some humor in this. I I would, I would, you know, Michael, I've been on stage for like, 25 years telling people that, you know, you can find something funny to laugh at. You can find humor in any situation. It's kind of like what you're talking about all the people going down the stairs in the building in the world trade center. All right, if you look around enough, you know, maybe there's something funny, and I've been preaching that, but I never really had to live that until now. And I thought, you know, maybe there's something here. Maybe I can this is my chance now to embrace new experiences. It was kind of when I got divorced, when you've been married half your life and all of a sudden you get divorced, everything's new to you, yeah, you're, you're, you're living alone, you you're doing things that your spouse did, oh, so many years. And you're having to do those, and you're having to make new friends, yeah, and all of that, I think, is very humorous. So the more I saw a book in there that I started writing before the cancer diagnosis, and I thought was there enough here? Just like, okay, a guy at 60 years old gets divorced now what's going to happen to him? The diagnosis? Kind. Made it just added another wrinkle to the book, because now I have to deal with this, and I have to find another subject to to make light of a little bit. So the book is not a memoir, you know, I don't start it off. And, you know, when I was seven, you know, I played, you know, I was, I went to this school night. It's not that. It's more just about reinvention and just seeing that you can be happy later in life, even though you have to kind of rewrite your your story a little   Speaker 1 ** 1:00:33 bit. And I would assume, and I would assume, you bring some of that into your ACT every so   Greg Schwem ** 1:00:38 very much. So yeah, I created a whole new speech called Turning gut punches into punchlines. And I some of the stuff that I, that I did, but, you know, there's a chapter in the book about, I about gig work, actually three chapters I, you know, I went to work for Amazon during the Christmas holiday rush, just scanning packages. I wanted to see what that was like. I drove for Uber I which I did for a while. And to tell you the truth, I miss it. I ended up selling my car, but I miss it because of the what we just talked about. It was a great way to communicate with people. It was a great way to talk to people, find out about them, be the least interesting person in the car, anyway. And there's a chapter about dating and online dating, which I had not had to do in 30 years. There's a lot of humor in that. I went to therapy. I'd never gone to therapy before. I wrote a chapter about that. So I think people really respond to this book, because they I think they see a lot of themselves in it. You know, lots of people have been divorced. There's lots of cancer survivors out there, and there's lots of people who just suddenly have hit a speed bump in their life, and they're not really sure how to deal with it, right? And my way, this book is just about deal with it through laughter. And I'm the perfect example.   Speaker 1 ** 1:01:56 I hear you, Oh, I I know, and I've been through the same sort of thing as you not a divorce, but my wife and I were married for 40 years, and she passed away in November of 2022 after 40 years of marriage. And as I tell people, as I tell people, I got to be really careful, because she's monitoring me from somewhere, and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it, so I got to be a good kid, and I don't even chase the women so. But I also point out that none of them have been chasing me either, so I guess I just do what we got to do. But the reality is, I think there are always ways to find some sort of a connection with other people, and then, of course, that's what what you do. It's all about creating a connection, creating a relationship, even if it's only for a couple of hours or an hour or 45 minutes, but, but you do it, which is what it's all about?   Greg Schwem ** 1:02:49 Yeah, exactly. And I think the funniest stuff is real life experience. Oh, absolutely, you know. And if people can see themselves in in what I've written, then I've done my job as a writer.   Speaker 1 ** 1:03:03 So do you have any plans to retire?   Greg Schwem ** 1:03:06 Never. I mean, good for you retire from what   1:03:09 I know right, making fun of people   Greg Schwem ** 1:03:12 and making them laugh. I mean, I don't know what I would do with myself, and even if I there's always going to be I don't care how technology, technologically advanced our society gets. People will always want and need to laugh. Yeah, they're always going to want to do that. And if they're want, if they're wanting to do that, then I will find, I will find a way to get to them. And that's why I, as I said, That's why, like working on cruise ships has become, like a new, sort of a new avenue for me to make people laugh. And so, yeah, I don't I there's, there's no way. I don't know what else I would do with   Speaker 1 ** 1:03:53 myself, well and from my perspective, as long as I can inspire people, yes, I can make people think a little bit and feel better about themselves. I'm going to do it right. And, and, and I do. And I wrote a book during COVID that was published last August called Live like a guide dog. And it's all about helping people learn to control fear. And I use lessons I learned from eight guide dogs and my wife service dog to do that. My wife was in a wheelchair her whole life. Great marriage. She read, I pushed worked out well, but, but the but the but the bottom line is that dogs can teach us so many lessons, and there's so much that we can learn from them. So I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to create this book and and get it out there. And I think that again, as long as I can continue to inspire people, I'm going to do it. Because   Greg Schwem ** 1:04:47 why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't I exactly right? Yeah, yeah. So,   Speaker 1 ** 1:04:51 I mean, I think if I, if I stopped, I think my wife would beat up on me, so I gotta be nice exactly. She's monitoring from somewhere

Angie Moreno, delegada de Turismo del Ayuntamiento de Sevilla aporta cifras de  repercusión de Icónica

川普提出號稱美國史上最大規模的減稅計畫──「大而美法案」，未來十年恐讓國債增加3到4兆美元。這項政策，會不會影響美國下半年甚至未來幾年的經濟走向？在此同時，Google、Amazon、Microsoft 等科技巨頭是否會因為政策轉向面臨營運壓力？而馬斯克與川普近期的隔空交火，又是否為特斯拉的未來發展增添變數？本集《科技領航家》邀請JC財經觀點創辦人 Jenny，帶你從宏觀經濟視角，深入解析大而美法案的實際影響、科技產業的潛在衝擊與機會，歡迎一同收聽！IC之音行銷企劃AI金融科技，如何影響國內外投資市場？關稅戰爆發、貨幣匯率變動，如何配置資產，穩定避險？IC之音　i Forum國際資產論壇—關稅戰、匯率變，談AI與投資避險邀請 台灣ETF創始者，元大投信董事長 劉宗聖清大計量財務金融系副教授，兼任政大國際金融學院 韓傳祥分享國內外ETF趨勢、主動式ETF等與AI金融科技的創新走向。現場並匯聚國際不動產與移民專家，帶來海外發展的多元趨勢與機會。八月三十號 星期六早上九點 新竹國賓大飯店11樓竹萱廳免費入場，座位有限！快上IC之音官網報名！即刻報名:https://www.digitimes.com.tw/seminar/iForum_20250830/活動專線 0800-222-975 Podcast廣告合作請洽：sharon.wang@ic975.com03-5163975分機208 王小姐

Support our sponsors this week by using the links below for the exclusive Solomonster offers!BETTERHELP - Get 10 PERCENT OFF your first month and give online therapy a try at http://www.betterhelp.com/solomonster to start being your best self. Thanks to BetterHelp for sponsoring this week's episode!FACTOR MEALS - Use code "solomonster50off" at http://www.factormeals.com/solomonster50off to get 50 PERCENT OFF your first box plus free shipping!Solomonster reviews WWE Evolution 2025, which may have been the very best WWE show all year with Rhea Ripley and IYO SKY tearing the house down and Naomi cashing in her MITB to win the Women's World Championship.  Plus, Trish Stratus goes for gold, Becky Lynch defends her IC title in a triple threat, Charlotte Flair gets cheered like a mega babyface, a Battle Royal to decide who gets a title shot at Clash in Paris and the REAL Mariah May shows herself during the NXT Women's title match. ***Follow Solomonster on X (formerly Twitter) for news and opinion:http://x.com/solomonsterSubscribe to the Solomonster Sounds Off on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSolomonster?sub_confirmation=1Become a Solomonster Sounds Off Channel Member:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9jcg7mk93fGNqWPMfl_Aig/join

While summer may keep campus quiet in Chapel Hill, the "Shoe Circuit" went full-throttle this past week as AAU tournaments began in earnest. Coaches from around the country are now back on the road for this live period to evaluate the best of the best in the class of '26 and beyond. North Carolina had its staff out and about watching offered and targeted players, and IC will continue its coverage this coming week. Sherrell McMillan and Sean Moran join Joey Powell to look back at the staff's movements last week, and to discuss more of the coming season for Carolina hoops.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Dave and Jamison answer these questions: I'm a long time listener to the podcast. Thanks for reading and answering my question! I have over 20+ yrs experience as a manual QA and 6+ yrs experience as a SDET. I'm in a new role as a hybrid manual QA / SDET for a company that hasn't had QA for a few years. After a couple of months a new hire was added to support a new project in non-development or QA tasks. While waiting for the launch of the new project, senior leadership decided to have this new hire to help me with QA. They have no experience in QA or coding. I spent a considerable amount of time training them, and found it difficult. After a few months my manager told me the hire will transition to lead QA. They will NOT be my supervisor or manager. I will be answering directly to the manager as before. I feel sidelined since I didn't get hired on as a Sr. or Lead role. I've already been left out of numerous meetings catered to team leads only. The new hire is very vocal in meetings. They repeat my ideas as their own, and speak for me when I don't agree. It's exhausting to hold back ideas from the new hire or correct them and add context to the rest of the team when I disagree. I'm worried I'm training this new QA lead to be my replacement. What are your thoughts? I feel like the company culture is chaotic for the long term. Any thoughts what I should do in the short term and long term? Hi Dave and Jamison (as a unit would you answer to Davison?). Long time listener, first time caller. I recently joined a data-engineering team at chill 90s multi-national tech company. My boss and I are based in the UK, and two more junior engineers who do the bulk of the IC work are based in India. These two engineers seem to work hard, have far more domain knowledge and technical ability than me, and generally seem to do most of the work. There's also a senior engineer who's kind of absent. My boss is a ‘red personality' who's been at the org for at least a decade, who doesn't seem as close to the technical detail. He cares about the destination and wants to get there yesterday, but discussions about ‘ways of working' or the specifics of achieving the output seem to bore him. He characterizes such talk as risk-aversion. I'm shocked by some of the technical details. Tooling chosen specifically to bypass version control, editing Jupyter Notebooks to deploy changes to ‘production', dashboards that seem to have totally wrong data, etc. It seems like they will do the minimum required to make things ‘work' and then move on. Scalability or making things interpret-able for others just doesn't seem to weigh on their mind. It's then me as the new-joiner navigating their hacky code who inevitably wanders into all the pitfalls and gotchas. I've tried to advocate for better practices and lead by example. They nod along, but ultimately seem resistant to change. I need their help and experience with the codebase, but I also have this creeping sense that their working style is too sloppy and unprofessional. They don't report to me, and our mutual boss seems happy with the work. I feel a bit like the guy in Twilight Zone: I can see a gremlin wrecking the plane, but nobody else can see it, and my attempts to address the situation just seem a bit hysterical. What's worse, my gentle attempts at flagging the issues with my boss haven't gone down well. In my first performance review my boss mentioned something about a ‘us versus them attitude' and ‘assuming good intent'. What do you make of this situation? Am I the a-hole? Have you faced this sort of thing in the past? Is it time to consider old-reliable? Is 4 months too soon to quit a job?

Brandon Tanguma is back with another solo recap, but this week he's here to cover all the major events that took place this weekend. Beginning with AEW's biggest show of the year, All In, culminating with Adam Page dethroning the Death Riders in a bloody Texas Death Match. NXT's Great American Bash emanated from the legendary Center Stage in Atlanta, with Ethan Page and Ricky Saints in a falls count any match and Blake Monroe's in-ring NXT television debut. Goldberg had his final match at Saturday Night's Main Event, but Seth Rollins' knee injury has thrown WWE's plans into limbo. Finally, WWE's second Evolution show with a stellar triple-threat match for the IC title, and a MITB cash-in from Naomi to end the night. Have a question? Send it to CurveballandCS@gmail.comFollow us on social media: https://linktr.ee/CurveballsandCS

Guiding Question:How might students play a role in creating more inclusive communities in our schools?Key Takeaways:How a student used the community project in grade 8 to start a PRIDE clubA student perspective on managing transitionsZooming in on the Changemaker Journey through a participant's viewpoint on the changemaker conference at AISB in BudapestIf you have enjoyed the podcast please take a moment to subscribe, and also please leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. The way the algorithm works, this helps our podcast reach more listeners. Thanks from IC for your support. Learn more about how Inspire Citizens co-designs customized student leadership and changemakers programsConnect with more stories from the Inspire Citizens network in our vignettesMeasuring the IMPACT of Service Learning projects and initiatives Access free resources for global citizenship educationYou can book a discovery call with Inspire Citizens at this linkShare on social media using #EmpathytoImpactEpisode Summary On this episode, after having the privilege of attending the Changemaker Conference at the American International School of Budapest in March 2025 (check out this episode with the student organizers), I had the opportunity to reconnect with Rae. Rae is a grade 8 changemaker from a school in the region, who, like me, was visiting, with other students from her school, to attend the conference. While at the conference, she attended one of my workshops, and we later had a great conversation about her work and her passion for creating inclusive communities. I was especially inspired learning that she had started a PRIDE club at her school. Listen to learn more. Discover a transformative podcast on education and learning from a student perspective and student voice, exploring media, media literacy, and media production to inspire citizens in schools through a media lab focused on 21st-century learning, empathy to impact, Global citizenship, collaboration, systems thinking, service learning, PBL, CAS, MYP, PYP, DP, Service as Action, futures thinking, project-based learning, sustainability, well-being, harmony with nature, community engagement, experiential learning, and the role of teachers and teaching in fostering well-being and a better future.

This week the boys return to run the gauntlet of predictions for the weekend; over 20 picks from 4 different shows. The 1 count is WWE where JCB has some serious beefs with the tag team booking and Trish Stratus being named as the challenger vs Tiffany Stratton. Drew McIntyre makes his return only to get dropped by Randy Orton. Ludwig Kaiser makes his debut as El Grande Americano. Bayley/Lyra/Becky continue to feud over the women's IC title. Seth Rollins and company make a big splash on Monday Night RAW. The 2 count is AEW building towards All In. Mercedes Mone and Toni Storm face off one last time. Megan Bayne gets the 2nd spot in the women's Casino Gauntlet match. FTR vs Outrunners becomes an instant classic. The boys do predictions along the way for All In Saturday Night's Main Event and Evolution. The 3 count is a quick segment of predictions for NXT's Great American Bash! Available on all audio podcast platforms! Listen Share Subscribe Repeat! Rate and review on Apple and Spotify! WWE AEW 1:06:40 NXT 2:11:45

Stuart Pollington was born in the United Kingdom and grew up there. After college he began working and along the way he decided he wanted to travel a bit. He worked in Las Vegas for six months and then had the opportunity to work for a year in Australia. He then ended up doing some work in Asia and fell in love with Thailand. For the past 20 years he has lived in Thailand where he helped start several entrepreneurial endeavors and he began two companies which are quite alive and well.   My discussion with Stuart gave us the opportunity to explore his ideas of leadership and entrepreneurial progress including what makes a good entrepreneur. He says, for example, that anyone who wishes to grow and be successful should be willing to ask many questions and always be willing to learn. Stuart's insights are quite valuable and worth your time. I believe you will find most useful Stuart's thoughts and ideas.     About the Guest:   Stuart Pollington is a seasoned entrepreneur and digital strategist who has spent over two decades building businesses across the ASEAN region. Originally from the UK, Stuart relocated to Thailand more than 20 years ago and has since co-founded and led multiple ventures, including Easson Energy and Smart Digital Group. His experience spans digital marketing, AI, and sustainability, but at the heart of it all is his passion for building ideas from the ground up—and helping others do the same.   Throughout his career, Stuart has worn many hats: Sales Director, CTO, Founder, Digital Marketer and growth consultant. He thrives in that messy, unpredictable space where innovation meets real-world execution, often working closely with new businesses to help them launch, grow, and adapt in challenging environments. From Bangkok boardrooms to late-night brainstorms, he's seen firsthand how persistence and curiosity can turn setbacks into springboards.   Stuart's journey hasn't always been smooth—and that's exactly the point. He's a firm believer that failure is an essential part of the learning process. Whether it's a marketing campaign that flopped or a business idea that never got off the ground, each misstep has helped shape his approach and fueled his drive to keep moving forward. Ways to connect with Stuart:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/stuartpollington/ www.smart-digital.co.th www.smart-traffic.com.au www.evodigital.com.au https://easson.energy     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello, everyone. Once again, it is time for an episode of unstoppable mindset. And today we have a guest, Stuart pullington, who is in Thailand, so that is a little bit of a distance away, but be due to the magic of science and technology, we get to have a real, live, immediate conversation without any delay or anything like that, just because science is a beautiful thing. So Stuart is an entrepreneur. He's been very much involved in helping other people. He's formed companies, but he likes to help other entrepreneurs grow and do the same things that he has been doing. So I am really glad that he consented to be on unstoppable mindset. And Stuart, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. And thank you for being here,   Stuart Pollington ** 02:14 Ryan, thank you for the invitation, Michael, I'm looking forward to it.   Michael Hingson ** 02:18 And Stuart is originally from the United Kingdom, and now for the past, what 20 years you've been in Thailand? Yes, over   Stuart Pollington ** 02:27 a bit over 20 years now. So I think I worked out the other day. I'm 47 in a couple of weeks, and I've spent more than half of my life now over in Asia.   Michael Hingson ** 02:39 So why do you like Thailand so much as opposed to being in England?   Stuart Pollington ** 02:46 It's a good question. I mean, don't get me wrong, I do, I do like the UK. And I really, I really like where I came, where I'm from. I'm from the south coast, southeast, a place called Brighton. So, you know, pretty good, popular place in the UK because of where we're situated, by the, you know, on the on the sea, we get a lot of, you know, foreign tourists and students that come over, etc. I mean, Asia. Why? Why Asia? I mean, I originally went traveling. I did six months in America, actually, first in Las Vegas, which was a good experience, and then I did a bit of traveling in America, from the West Coast over to the East Coast. I did a year in Australia, like a working holiday. And then on my way back to the UK, I had a two week stop over in Thailand, and I went down to the beaches, really enjoyed kind of the culture and the way of life here, if you like. And ended up staying for a year the first time. And then after that year, went back to the UK for a little bit and decided that actually, no, I kind of liked the I liked the lifestyle, I liked the people, I liked the culture in Thailand, and decided that was where I wanted to kind of be, and made my way back   Michael Hingson ** 04:13 there you are. Well, I can tell you, Las Vegas isn't anything like it was 20 years ago. It is. It is totally different. It's evolved. It's very expensive today compared to the way it used to be. You can't, for example, go into a hotel and get an inexpensive buffet or anything like that anymore. Drinks at the hum on the on the casino floors are not like they used to be, or any of that. It's it's definitely a much higher profit, higher cost. Kind of a place to go. I've never been that needy to go to Las Vegas and spend a lot of time. I've been there for some meetings, but I've never really spent a lot of time in Las Vegas. It's a fascinating town. Um. One of my favorite barbecue places in New York, opened up a branch in Las Vegas, a place called Virgil's best barbecue in the country. And when they opened the restaurant, the Virgil's restaurant in Las Vegas, my understanding is that the people who opened it for Virgil's had to first spend six months in New York to make sure that they did it exactly the same way. And I'll tell you, the food tastes the same. It's just as good as New York. So that that would draw me to Las Vegas just to go to Virgil's. That's kind of fun. Well, tell us a little about the early Stuart kind of growing up and all that, and what led you to do the kinds of things you do, and so on. But tell us about the early Stuart, if you would.   Stuart Pollington ** 05:47 Yeah, no problem. I mean, was quite sporty, very sporty. When I was younger, used to play a lot of what we call football, which would be soccer over, over your way. So, you know, very big, younger into, like the the team sports and things like that, did well at school, absolutely in the lessons, not so great when it came to kind of exams and things like that. So I, you know, I learned a lot from school, but I don't think especially back then, and I think potentially the same in other countries. I don't think that the the education system was set up to cater for everyone, and obviously that's difficult. I do feel that. I do feel that maybe now people are a bit more aware of how individual, different individuals perform under different circumstances and need different kind of ways to motivate, etc. So, yeah, I mean, I that that was kind of me at school. Did a lot of sport that, you know was good in the lessons, but maybe not so good at the PAM studying, if you like, you know the studying that you need to do for exams where you really have to kind of cram and remember all that knowledge. And I also found with school that it was interesting in the lessons, but I never really felt that there was any kind of, well, we're learning this, but, and this is how you kind of utilize it, or this is the practical use of what we're learning for life, if that, if that makes sense. Yeah. So, you know, like when we were learning, and I was always very good at maths, and I love numbers, and you know, when we were learning things in maths and things like that, I just never felt that it was explained clearly what you would actually use that for. So when you're learning different equations, it wasn't really well explained how you would then utilize that later in life, which I think, for me personally, I think that would have made things more interesting, and would have helped to kind of understand which areas you should focus on. And, you know, maybe more time could have been spent understanding what an individual is good at, and then kind of explaining, well, if you're good at this, or passionate with this, then this is what you could do with it. I think I remember sitting down with our I can't they would have been our advisors at the time, where you sit down and talk about what you want to do after school, and the question was always, what do you want to be? Whereas, you know, for me personally, I think it would have been more useful to understand, what are your passion you know? What are you passionate about? What are you good at? What do you enjoy doing? And then saying, Well, you know, you could actually do this. This is something you could do, you know. So you could take that and you could become, this could be the sort of career you could do, if that makes sense. So anyway, that that was kind of like, like school and everything like that. And then after school, you know, I didn't, I worked for a couple of years. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. Funnily enough, there was actually a Toys R Us opening in Brighton in one of the summers she went and got, I got a summer job there at Toys R Us. And I really enjoyed that. Actually, that was my first step into actually doing a bit of sales. I worked on the computers. So we were, you know, selling the computers to people coming in. And when we opened the store, it's a brand new store. You know, it was just when the pay as you go. Mobile phones were kind of just coming out. We had Vodafone analog, but it was the non contract where you could just buy top up cards when they first came out, and I remember we were the first store, because we were a new store. We were the first store to have those phones for sale. And I remember just being really determined to just try and be the first person to just sell the first ever mobile phone within Toys R Us. And I remember I started in the morning, and I think my lunch was at, say, 12, but I missed my lunch, and I think I was up till about one, one or 2pm until finally I managed to find someone who, who was, who me, had that need or wanted the phone, and so I made that first sale for toys r us in the UK with the mobile phone, and that that, in itself, taught me a lot about, you know, not giving up and kind of pushing through and persevering a bit. So yeah, that that was kind of my, my early part. I was always interested in other cultures, though. I was always interested at school, you know, I do projects on Australia, Egypt and things like that. And, you know, in the UK, when you get to about, I think similar, similar to America, but, you know, in the UK, where you either before or after uni, it's quite usual to do, like, a gap year or do a bit of traveling. And I just kind of never got round to it. And I had friends that went and did a gap year or years working holiday in Australia, and I remember when they came back, and I was like, Yeah, you know, that's that's actually what I want to do. So when I was about 22 it was at that point, and I'd worked my way up by them from Toys R Us, I'd already moved around the country, helped them open new stores in different locations in the UK. Was working in their busiest story of in Europe, which was in London. But I decided I wanted to kind of I wanted to go and travel. So I remember talking to my area manager at the time and saying, Look, this is what I want to do. I had a friend who was traveling, and he was meeting up with his sister, and his sister happened to be in Las Vegas, which is how we, we kind of ended up there. And I remember talking to my area manager at the time and saying that I want to leave, I want to go and do this. And I remember him sat down just trying to kind of kind of talk me out of it, because they obviously saw something in me. They wanted me to continue on the path I was doing with them, which was going, you know, towards the management, the leadership kind of roles. And I remember the conversation because I was saying to him, Look, I want, I want to, I want to go and travel. I really want to go. I'm going to go to Las Vegas or to travel America. And his response to me was, well, you know, if you stay here for another x years, you can get to this position, then you can go and have a holiday in America, and you could, you can get a helicopter, you can fly over the Grand Canyon, and kind of really trying to sell me into staying in that path that they wanted me to go on. And I thought about that, and I just said, No, I don't want to just go on a holiday. I really just want to immerse myself, and I just want to go there, and I want to live the experience. And so yeah, I I left that position, went to Las Vegas, ended up staying six months. I did three months. Did a bit in Mexico, came back for another three months. And that's where I met a lot of different people from different countries. And I really kind of got that initial early bug of wanting to go out and seeing a bit more of the world. And it was at that point in my life where I was in between, kind of the end of education, beginning of my business career, I guess, and I had that gap where it was the opportunity to do it. So I did, so yeah, I did that time in America, then back to the UK, then a year in Australia, which was great. And then, yeah, like I said, on the way home, is where I did my stop over. And then just obviously fell in love with Thailand and Asia, and that became my mindset after that year going back to the UK. My mindset was, how do I get back to Thailand? You know, how do I get back to Asia? I also spent a bit of time, about five years in the Philippines as well. So, you know, I like, I like, I like the region, I like the people, I like the kind of way of life, if you like.   Michael Hingson ** 14:23 So when you were working in the Philippines, and then when you got to Thailand, what did you do?   Stuart Pollington ** 14:30 Yeah, so I mean, it all starts with Thailand, really. So I mean, originally, when I first came over, I was, I was teaching and doing, trying to kind of some teaching and voluntary stuff. When I came back, I did a similar thing, and then I got, I get, I wouldn't say lucky, I guess I had an opportunity to work for a company that was, we were, we were basically selling laptop. Laptops in the UK, student laptops, they were refurbished like your IBM or your Dell, and we they would be refurbished and resold normally, to students. And we also, we also used to sell the the laptop batteries. So we would sell like the IBM or Dell laptop batteries, but we sell the OEM, you know, so we would get them direct from, from from China, so like third party batteries, if you like. And back in the day, this is just over 20 years ago, but back then, early days of what we would call digital marketing and online marketing. And you know, our website in the UK, we used to rank, you know, number one for keywords like IBM, refurb, refurbished. IBM, laptop Dell, laptop battery, IBM battery. So we used to rank above the brands, and that was my introduction, if you like, to digital marketing and how it's possible to make money online. And then that kind of just morphed into, well, you know, if we're able to do this for our own business, why can't we do this for other businesses? And that would have been the, you know, the early owners and founders of the of smart digital and smart traffic seeing that opportunity and transitioning from running one business and doing well to helping multiple businesses do well online and that, that was the bit I really enjoy. You know, talking to different business owners in different industries. A lot of what we do is very similar, but then you have slightly different approaches, depending on them, the location and the type of business that people are in.   Michael Hingson ** 16:47 Well, you, you have certainly been been around. You formed your own or you formed countries along the way, like Eastern energy and smart digital group. What were they? Right?   Stuart Pollington ** 16:59 Yeah. So, so yeah, going back to the computer website. Out of that came a company called smart traffic that was put together by the free original founders, guy called Simon, guy called Ben, and a guy called Andy. And so they originally came together and put and had created, if you like, smart traffic. And smart traffic is a digital marketing agency originally started with SEO, the organic, you know, so when someone's searching for something in Google, we help get websites to the top of that page so that people can then click on them, and hopefully they get a lead or a sale, or whatever they're they're trying to do with that, with that traffic. So, yeah, they originally put that together. I being here and on the ground. I then started working within the business. So I was running the student website, if you like, the laptop website, and then got the opportunity from very early on to work within the Digital Marketing Company. I've got a sales background, but I'm also quite technical, and I would say I'm good with numbers, so a little bit analytical as well. So the opportunity came. We had opened an office in the Philippines, and it had been open for about, I think, 18 months or two years, and it was growing quite big, and they wanted someone else to go over there to support Simon, who was one of the founders who opened the office over there. And that's when I got the opportunity. So I was over in Cebu for what, five, five and a half years. At one point, we had an office there with maybe 120 staff, and we did a lot of the technical SEO, and we were delivering campaigns for the UK. So we had a company in the UK. We had one in Australia, and then also locally, within the kind of Thai market. And that was fantastic. I really enjoyed working over in the Philippines again. Culture enjoyed the culture enjoyed the people. Really enjoyed, you know, just getting stuck in and working on different client campaigns. And then eventually that brought me back to Thailand. There was a restructure of the company we, you know, we moved a lot of the a lot of the deliverables around. So I was then brought back to Thailand, which suited me, because I wanted to come back to Thailand at that point. And then I had the opportunity. So the previous owners, they, they created a couple of other businesses in Thailand. They're one that very big one that went really well, called dot property, so they ended up moving back to the UK. Long story short, about maybe 10 years ago, I got the opportunity to take over smart digital in Thailand and smart traffic in Australia, which are both the. Marketing agencies that I'd been helping to run. So I had the opportunity to take those over and assume ownership of those, which was fantastic. And then I've obviously been successfully running those for the last 10 years, both here and and in Australia, we do a lot of SEO. We do a lot of Google ads and social campaigns and web design, and we do a lot of white label. So we we sit in the background for other agencies around the world. So there'll be agencies in, you know, maybe Australia, the UK, America, some in Thailand as well, who are very strong at maybe social or very strong ads, but maybe not as strong on the SEO so we, we just become their SEO team. We'll run and manage the campaigns for them, and then we'll deliver all the reporting with their branding on so that they can then plug that into what they do for their clients and deliver to their clients. So that's all fantastic. I mean, I love, I love digital marketing. I love, I love looking at the data and, you know, working out how things work. And we've been very successful over the years, which then led on to that opportunity that you mentioned and you asked about with Eastern energy. So that was about three and a half years ago, right right around the COVID time, I had a meeting, if you like, in in Bangkok, with a guy called Robert Eason. He was actually on his way to the UK with his family, and kind of got stuck in Bangkok with all the lockdowns, and he was actually on his way to the UK to start Eastern energy there. And Eastern energy is basically, it's an energy monitoring and energy efficiency company. It's basically a UK design solution where we have a hardware technology that we retrofit, which is connects, like to the MDB, and then we have sensors that we place around the location, and for every piece of equipment that we connect to this solution, we can see in real time, second by second, the energy being used. We can then take that data, and we use machine learning and AI to actually work with our clients to identify where their energy wastage is, and then work with them to try and reduce that energy wastage, and that reduces the amount of energy they're using, which reduces their cost, but also, very importantly, reduces the CO two emissions. And so I had this chance encounter with Robert, and I remember, at the time I was we were talking about how this solution worked, and I was like, oh, that's quite interesting. You know, I've I, you know, the the digital marketing is going quite well. Could be time to maybe look at another kind of opportunity, if you like. So I had a look at how it worked. I looked at the kind of ideal clients and what sort of other projects were being delivered by the group around the world. And there were a couple of big name brands over in there. So because it works quite well with qsrs, like quick service restaurant, so like your fast food chains, where you have multiple locations. And it just so happened that one of the in case studies they'd had, I just through my networking, I do a lot of networking with the chambers in Bangkok. Through my networking, I actually happened to know some of the people in the right positions at some of these companies. I'd never had the opportunity to work with them, with the digital marketing because most of them would have their own in house teams, and I just saw it as an opportunity to maybe do something with this here. So I, you know, I said to Robert, give me a week. And then a week later, I said, right, we've got a meeting with this company. It's international fast food brand. They've got 1700 locations in Thailand. So when ended that meeting, very, very positive. And after that meeting, I think Robert and I just I said to Robert, you know, currently you have a plan to go to the UK. Currently you're stuck in Thailand with lockdown, with COVID. We don't know what's going to happen and where everything's going to go. Why don't we do it here? And that's where it originally came from. We decided, let's, you know, let's, let's give that a shot over here. Since then, we've brought in two other partners. There's now four of us, a guy called Gary and a guy called Patrick. And yeah, I mean, it's a bit slower than I thought it would be, but it's in the last. Six months, it's really kind of picked up, which has been fantastic. And for me, it was, for me, it was just two things that made sense. One, I love I love data, and I love the technology. So I love the fact that we're now helping businesses by giving them data that they don't currently have the access to, you know. So when you get, you know, when you when you get your electricity bill, you get it the month after you've used everything, don't you, and it just tells you how much you've got to pay. And there's not really much choice. So what we're doing is giving them the visibility in real time to see where their energy is going and be able to make changes in real time to reduce that energy wastage. And I just thought, Well, look, this is great. It's very techie. It's using, you know, date big data, which I love, using machine learning and AI, which is great. And then I also, you know, I do care about the environment. I got two young kids, so I do care about what's happening around the world. And for me, that was a win, win. You know, I got to, I got to do something with tech that was new and exciting. It's definitely new to this region, even though it's been new to the same sort of technology has been utilized in Europe and America for a number of years. So it felt new, it felt exciting. And it's also good, you know, because we are helping people on the path to net zero. You know, how can we get to net zero? How can we reduce these emissions? So, yeah, I mean that that, for me, is   Stuart Pollington ** 26:40 two different types of, in my opinion, entrepreneurial kind of journeys. One is that the with the digital marketing is, is all it's a story of working my way up to then reach the top, if you like. And whereas Eastern energy is more of a traditional kind of as an entrepreneur, this is, this is an idea. Let's do something with it and get an exciting about it. So two kind of, two different approaches to get to the ownership stage, if you like.   Michael Hingson ** 27:14 I have an interesting story. I appreciate what you're saying. The whole entrepreneurial spirit is so important in what we do, and I wish more people had it. But years ago, one of my first jobs out of college was working for a company in Massachusetts, Kurzweil Computer Products. Ray Kurzweil, who developed, originally a reading machine for the blind, and then later a more commercial version of it. And there's somebody that I had met when I was a student at UC Irvine who ended up being back in Massachusetts working for at that time, a think tank consulting company called Bolt Beranek and Newman. I don't know whether you're familiar with them. They changed their name to, I think it was CLOUD NINE or Planet Nine. But Dick was telling me one day that, and this is when mainframe computers were so large and there was a lot needed to keep them cool and so on. Anyway, he was telling me that one day the gas utility came in because the total heating bill for the six story building was like $10 and they wanted to know how BBN bolt, brannic and Newman was stealing energy and and making it so that they didn't pay very much money. And the the president of the company said, let me show you. They went down to the basement, and there they had two PDP 20s, which are like dual PDP 10s. And they put out a lot of heat, needless to say, to run them. And what BBN did was to take all of that heat and pipe it through the building to keep the building warm in the winter. Rather than paying all the gas bills, they were using something that they already had, the entrepreneurial spirit liveth well. And the bottom line is they, they kept the building well heated. And I don't know what they did in the summer, but during the winter it was, it was pretty cool, and they were able to have $10 gas bills for the six story building, which was kind of fun. No,   Stuart Pollington ** 29:39 that's brilliant, yeah, and that just goes to show me, that is what a large part of this, you know, energy efficiency and things like that, is, it's, it's, it's not about just completely replacing or stopping something. It's about better utilizing it. Isn't it? So they, you know the example you just gave there, with the heat and the wasted energy of being lost in that heat release they've used and utilized, which is brilliant.   Michael Hingson ** 30:12 I a couple of years ago. So my wife passed away in 2022 and we have a furnace and so on here, and we had gas bills that were up in the $200 a month or more up as much as $300 a month in the winter to keep the house at a temperature that we could stand. And two years ago, I thought about, how do we lower that? And I was never a great fan of space heaters, but I decided to try something. We got a couple of space heaters, and we put them out in the living room, and we have ceiling fans. So turned on the space heaters and turned on the ceiling fans, and it did a pretty decent job of keeping the temperature down, such that for most months, I didn't even have to turn the furnace on at all, and our heating bill went down to like $39 a month. Then last year, we got an additional heater that was a little bit larger, and added that to the mix. And again, the bottom line is that if I start all of that early in the morning, our heating bill is like 30 $35 a month. Now I do cheat occasionally, and I'll turn the furnace on for about 45 minutes or 50 minutes in the morning with the ceiling fans to help distribute the warmer air, and I can get the house up to 75 degrees, or almost 30 Celsius, in in a very quick time. And then with the other two space heaters running, I don't have to use furnaces or anything for the rest of the day. So I think this year, the most expensive heating bill we had was like $80 because I did occasionally run the the the heaters or the furnace, and when I was traveling, I would turn the furnace on for the cat a little bit. But the bottom line is, there's so many things that we can do to be creative, if we think about it, to make things run more efficiently and not use as much energy and eliminate a lot of the waste that that we have, and so that that has worked out pretty well, and I have solar on the house. So in the summer, when most people around here are paying four and $500 a month for their electric bills to run the air conditioning. My electric bill year round, is $168 a month, which is   Stuart Pollington ** 32:47 cool. Yeah, no, that's great that you've and you've that is a great example there of kind of how you know our approach to energy efficiency. You know what? What are you currently doing? Is there a more efficient way of doing it? Which is exactly what you found, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:07 yeah, and it works really well. So I can't complain it's warming up now. So in fact, we're not I haven't turned the furnace or anything on at all this week. This is the first week it's really been warm at night. In fact, it was 75 degrees Fahrenheit last night. I actually had to turn the air conditioner on and lower the house to 70 degrees, and then turned it off because I don't need to keep it on, and made it easier to sleep. But it's it's amazing, if we think about it, what the things that we can do to make our energy lives more efficient, lower the carbon footprint, and all those kinds of things. So I hear what you're saying, and it's and it's important, I think that we all think about as many ways as we can of doing that. I   Stuart Pollington ** 33:56 think one of the biggest problems with energy is just invisible. You don't, you know, you don't really see it. No. So just, it's just one of those. You just don't really think about it. And again, you only get, you only get told what you've used once you've used it. Yeah, so it's too late by then. And then you go, Oh, you know, you might get an expensive bill. And go, oh, I need to be careful. And then you're careful for a few days or a week, and then again, you don't see it until you get your next bill. Yeah, it's really hard as with anything. I mean, it's a bit like going to the gym. If you go to the gym or the fitness and you just do it sporadically. You don't really have a routine, or, you know, it's gonna be very hard to achieve anything. But then if you, if you set your mind to it, if you maybe get a trainer, and you get a you go onto a better diet, and you follow your routine, you can you will see the results. And it's very similar to what we do. If you've once you've got the data, and you can actually see what. Happening, you can make proper, informed and educated business decisions, and that's what we're trying to do with that is to help businesses make the right decision on the path to net zero   Michael Hingson ** 35:11 well, and you have to develop the mindset as the consumer to bring in a company like yours, or at least think about yourself. What can I do consistently to have a better energy pattern? And I think that's what most people tend not to do a lot, and the result of that is that they pay more than they need to. The power companies like it, the gas companies like it. But still, there are better ways to do it so. So tell me you have been in business and been an entrepreneur for a long time. What is maybe an example of some major crisis or thing that happened to you that you you regard as a failure or a setback that you have had to deal with and that taught you something crucial about business or life.   Stuart Pollington ** 36:08 Brilliant question. I mean, I would, I would guess, over 20 years, there's been a lot of different, sorry, a lot of different things that have happened. I think probably, probably an impactful one would have been. And this taught me a lot about my team, and, you know, their approach and how everyone can pull together. So it would have been, I think it was about, it was when I was in the Philippines. So it would have been about maybe 1212, years ago, we're in Cebu, and there was a big earthquake, and when it hit Cebu, I think it was quite early in the morning. It was like 6am and I remember the whole bed was kind of shaking and rocking, and we, you know, had to get out of the condo. And we're, at the time, living in a place called it Park. And in the Philippines, there's a lot of cool centers, so it's very much 24/7 with an office environment. So as we're coming out of the condo, in literally pants, as in, when I say pants, I mean underwear, because you literally jump out of bed and run. And they were like 1000s, 1000s of all the local Filipinos all all in their normal clothes, because they've all doing the call center work. And I remember just, you know, sitting out on the ground as the aftershocks and whole grounds moving and and, and that that was a very, you know, personal experience. But then on top of that, I've then got over 100 staff in in Cebu at the time that I then have to think about. And, you know, is everyone okay? And then, because of the time it happened, Luckily no one was in the office because it was early, yeah, but it all but it also meant that everything we needed   Michael Hingson ** 38:08 was in the office. Was in the office. Yeah, yeah. So,   Stuart Pollington ** 38:10 so I remember Matt, you know, I remember getting a group of us there, was myself and maybe three or four others from the office, and I remember getting in my car, drove to the office. We were on, I think it's like the eighth or ninth floor, and they didn't want to let us in because of, obviously, the earthquake, and it was a, it was a couple of hours later, and you've got to be obviously, you know, everything needs checking. You still got all the aftershocks, but we managed to let them allow us to run up the fire exit to the office so we could grab, you know, I think we were grabbing, like, 1520, laptops and screens to put in the car so that we could then, and we had to do that of the fire exit, so running up, running down, and that was all into The car so we could then drive to a location where I could get some of my team together remote and to work in this. I think we ended up in some coffee shop we found that was open, and we had the old free G boost kind of the Wi Fi dongles, dongles. And I just remember having to get, like, 1015, of my team, and we're all sat around there in the coffee shop in the morning. You know, there's still the after shops going on the I remember the office building being a mess, and, you know, the tiles had come in and everything, and it was all a bit crazy, but we had to find a way to keep the business running. So we were in the Philippines, we were the support team. We did all of the delivery of the work, but we also worked with the account managers in the UK and Australia as their technical liaisons, if you like. So we. Helped do the strategy. We did everything. And so with us out of action, the whole of Australia and of the whole of the UK team were kind of in a limbo, so we really had to pull together as a team. It taught me a lot about my staff and my team, but it also kind of it taught me about, no matter what does happen, you know, you can find a way through things, you know. So at the time that it happened, it felt like, you know, that's it, what we're going to do, but we had to turn that around and find the way to keep everything going. And yeah, that, that that just taught me a lot of you know, you can't give up. You've got to find a way to kind of push on through. And yeah, we did a fantastic job. Everyone was safe. Sorry. I probably should have said that. You know, no one, none of my team, were affected directly from the from the earthquake, which was great, and we found a way to keep things going so that the business, if you like, didn't fall apart. We,   Michael Hingson ** 41:09 you know, I guess, in our own way, had a similar thing, of course, with September 11, having our office on the 78th floor of Tower One, the difference is that that my staff was out that day working. They weren't going to be in the office. One person was going to be because he had an appointment at Cantor Fitzgerald up on the 96th floor of Tower One for 10 o'clock in the morning, and came in on one of the trains. But just as it arrived at the station tower two was hit, and everything shook, and the engineer said, don't even leave. We're going back out. And they left. But we lost everything in the office that day, and there was, of course, no way to get that. And I realized the next day, and my wife helped me start to work through it, that we had a whole team that had no office, had nothing to go to, so we did a variety of things to help them deal with it. Most of them had their computers because we had laptops by that time, and I had taken my laptop home the previous night and backed up all of my data onto my computer at home, so I was able to work from home, and other people had their computers with them. The reason I didn't have my laptop after September 11 is that I took it in that day to do some work. But needless to say, when we evacuated, it was heavy enough that going down 1463 stairs, 78 floors, that would have been a challenge with the laptop, so we left it, but it worked out. But I hear what you're saying, and the reality is that you got to keep the team going. And even if you can't necessarily do the work that you normally would do you still have to keep everyone's spirits up, and you have to do what needs to be done to keep everybody motivated and be able to function. So I think I learned the same lessons as you and value, of course, not that it all happened, but what I learned from it, because it's so important to be able to persevere and move forward, which, which is something that we don't see nearly as much as sometimes we really should.   Stuart Pollington ** 43:34 Yeah, no, no, definitely. I mean the other thing, and I think you you just mentioned there actually is it. You know, it was also good to see afterwards how everyone kind of pulls together. And, you know, we had a lot of support, not just in the Philippines, but from the UK and the Australia teams. I mean, we had a, we had a bit of an incident, you know, may have seen on the news two weeks ago, I think now, we had an incident in Bangkok where there was a earthquake in Myanmar, and then the all the buildings are shaking in Bangkok, yeah, 7.9 Yeah, that's it. And just, but just to see everyone come together was, was it's just amazing. You know? It's a shame, sometimes it takes something big to happen for people to come together and support each other.   Michael Hingson ** 44:27 We saw so much of that after September 11. For a while, everyone pulled together, everyone was supporting each other. But then over time, people forgot, and we ended up as a as a country, in some ways, being very fractured. Some political decisions were made that shouldn't have been, and that didn't help, but it was unfortunate that after a while, people started to forget, in fact, I went to work for an organization out in California in 2002 in addition to. To taking on a career of public speaking, and in 2008 the president of the organization said, we're changing and eliminating your job because nobody's interested in September 11 anymore, which was just crazy, but those are the kinds of attitudes that some people have, well, yeah, there was so little interest in September 11 anymore that when my first book, thunderdog was published, it became a number one New York Times bestseller. Yeah, there was no interest. It's   Stuart Pollington ** 45:31 just, I hope you sent him a signed copy and said, There you go.   Michael Hingson ** 45:35 Noah was even more fun than that, because this person had been hired in late 2007 and she did such a great job that after about 18 months, the board told her to go away, because she had so demoralized the organization that some of the departments were investigating forming unions, you know. So I didn't need to do anything. Wow, so, you know, but it, it's crazy, the attitudes that people have. Well, you have it is, it's it's really sad. Well, you have done a couple of things that I think are very interesting. You have moved to other countries, and you've also started businesses in unfamiliar markets. What advice? What advice would you give to someone who you learn about who's doing that today, starting a business in an unfamiliar market, or in a foreign country, or someplace where they've never been?   Stuart Pollington ** 46:34 Yeah, again, good questions. I looking back and then so and seeing what I'm doing now, and looking back to when I first came over, I think chambers, I think if I have one, you know, obviously you need to understand the market you want. You need to understand, like the labor laws, the tax laws and, you know, the business laws and things like that. But I think, I think the best thing you could do in any country is to check out the chambers. You know, I'm heavily involved and active with aus Jam, which is the Australian Chamber of Commerce, because of the connection with smart traffic in Australia, in Sydney, the digital marketing. I'm also involved with bcct, the British chamber as British Chamber of Commerce Thailand as well, that there's a very big AmCham American Chamber over here as well. And I just think that the chambers can help a lot. You know, they're good for the networking. Through the networking, you can meet the different types of people you need to know, connections with visas, with, you know, work permits, how to set up the business, recruiting everything. So everything I need, I can actually find within this ecosphere of the chambers. And the chambers in Thailand and Bangkok, specifically, they're very active, lots of regular networking, which brings, you know, introductions, new leads to the business, new connections. And then on top of that, we've had, we've had a lot of support from the British Embassy over in in Thailand, especially with the Eastern energy, because it is tech based, because it is UK Tech, and because it is obviously something that's good for the environment and what everyone's trying to push towards. So I think the two key areas for me, if you are starting a business in an unfamiliar area, is one. Check out the chambers. So obviously the first one you'd look at is your own nationality. But don't stress too much about that. I mean, the chambers over here will welcome anyone from any nationality. So, you know, utilize the chambers because it's through that that you're going to get to speak to people, expats, already running businesses. You'll hear the horror stories. You'll hear the tips. It will save you some time, it will save you some money, and it will save you from making similar mistakes. And then also talk to your embassy and how they can maybe support you. We've had, again, some great support from the British Embassy. They've witnessed demo use. They've helped us with introductions. On the energy efficiency side,   Michael Hingson ** 49:26 one of the things that clearly happens though, with you is that you also spend time establishing relationships with people, so you talk about the chamber and so on. But it also has to be that you've established and developed trusting relationships, so that you are able to learn the things that you learned, and that people are willing to help teach you. And I suspect that they also realize that you would be willing to help others as well.   Stuart Pollington ** 49:55 Yeah, and I think I mean yes, and I'm talking about. And I mentioned, sorry, networking and the changes. But with networking, you know, you don't, you shouldn't go in there with the mindset of, I'm going into networking. I want to make as many sales as I can. Whatever you go into the networking. Is an opportunity to meet people, to learn from people you then some of those people, or most of those people, may not even be the right fit for you, but it's about making those relationships and then helping each other and making introductions. So you know, a lot of what I do with the chambers, I run a lot of webinars. I do workshops where I do free training on digital marketing, on AI, on SEO, on ads, on social. I use that as my lead gen, if you like. So I spend a lot of time doing this educationally and helping people. And then the offshot of that is that some of those will come and talk to me and ask me to how I can help them, or they will recommend me to someone else. And you know, we all know in business, referrals are some of the best leads you can get.   Michael Hingson ** 51:11 Yeah, by any, by any definition, one of, one of the things that I tell every sales person that I've ever hired is you are a student, at least for your first year, don't hesitate to ask questions, because in reality, in general, people are going to be perfectly willing to help you. They're not going to look down on you if you ask questions and legitimately are looking for guidance and information. Again, it's not about you, it's about what you learn, and it's about how you then are able to use that knowledge to help other people, and the people and the individuals who recognize that do really well.   Stuart Pollington ** 51:50 No, exactly, and I don't know about you, Michael, but I like, I like helping people. Yeah, I like, it makes me feel good. And, yeah, that's, that's a big part of it as well. You know   Michael Hingson ** 52:01 it is and, and that's the way it ought to be. It's, that's the other thing that I tell them. I said, once you have learned a great deal, first of all, don't forget that you're always going to be a student. And second of all, don't hesitate to be a teacher and help other people as well.   Speaker 1 ** 52:16 Man, that's really important. Yeah, brilliant.   Michael Hingson ** 52:20 Now you have worked across a number of sectors and market, marketing, tech, sales, energy and so on. How did how do you do that? You You've clearly not necessarily been an expert in those right at the beginning. So how do you learn and grow and adapt to be able to to work in those various industries.   Stuart Pollington ** 52:41 Yeah, I mean, for the marketing, for the marketing, it helps that I really was interested in it. So there was a good there was a good interest. And if you're interested in something, then you get excited about it, and you have the motivation and the willingness to learn and ask the questions, like you said, and then that is where you can take that kind of passion and interest and turn it into something a bit more constructive. It's a bit like I was saying at the beginning. It's the sort of thing I wish they'd done a bit maybe with me at school, was understand what I was good at and what I liked. But yeah, so with the marketing, I mean, very similar to what you've said, I asked questions. I see it just seems to click in my head on how it worked. And it kind of made sense to me. It was just one of these things that clicked, yeah. And so for the marketing, I just found it personally quite interesting, but interesting, but also found it quite easy. It just made sense to me, you know. And similar, you know, using computers and technology, I think it just makes sense. It doesn't to everyone. And other people have their strengths in other areas, but, you know, for me, it made sense. So, you know that that was the easy part. Same with Eastern energy, it's technology. It makes sense. I love it, but at the end of the day, it's all about it's all about people, really business, and you've got your people and your team, and how you motivate them is going to be similar. It's going to be slightly different depending on culture and where you're based, in the type of industry you're in, but also very similar. You know, people want praise, they want constructive feedback. They want to know where they're gonna be in a year or five years. All of that's very similar. So you people within the business, and then your customers are just people as well, aren't they? Well, customers, partners, clients, you know that they are just people. So it's all, it's all, it's all about people, regardless of what we're doing. And because it's all very similar with tech and that, it just, yeah, I don't know. It just makes sense to me. Michael, I mean, it's different. It's funny, because when I do do network and I talk to people, I say, Well, I've got this digital marketing agency here. Work, and then I've got this energy efficiency business here. And the question is always, wow, they sound really different. How did you how did you get into them? But when, again, when I look at it, it's not it's it's tech, it's tech, it's data, it's people. That's how I look at it,   Michael Hingson ** 55:16 right? And a lot of the same rules apply across the board. Yes, there are specific things about each industry that are different, but the basics are the same.   Stuart Pollington ** 55:28 That's it. I, in fact, I that isn't almost, there's almost word for word. What I use when I'm explaining our approach to SEO, I just say, Look, you know, there's, there's three core areas with SEO, it's the tech, the on site, it's the content, and it's the off site signals, or the link building. I said they're the three core areas for Google. They've been the same for, you know, 20 years. Within those areas, there's lots of individual things you need to look at, and that changes a lot. And there's 1000s of things that go into the algorithm, but the basics are the same. Sort your tech, sort the text, sort the tech of it out, the speed of the site and the usability. Make sure your content is good and relevant and authoritative, and then get other sites to recommend you and reference you, you know So, but, yeah, that's very similar to how I try and explain SEO. Yeah, you know all this stuff going on, but you still got the core basics of the same.   Michael Hingson ** 56:29 It is the same as it has always been, absolutely. So what do you do? Or how do you deal with a situation when plans necessarily don't go like you think they should, and and all that. How do you stay motivated?   Stuart Pollington ** 56:45 I mean, it depends, it depends what's gone wrong. But, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a big believer in, you know, learning from your mistakes and then learning also learning from what went wrong. Because sometimes you don't make a mistake and something goes wrong, but something still goes wrong. I think it helps. It helps to have a good team around you and have a good support team that you can talk to. It's good to be able to work through issues. But, I mean, for me, I think the main thing is, you know, every like you were saying earlier, about asking questions and being a student for a year. You know everything that happens in business, good or bad, is a lesson that should help you be better in the future. So you know the first thing, when something goes wrong, understand what's gone wrong first. Why did it go wrong? How did it go wrong? How do we resolve this, if we need to resolve something for the client or us, and then how do we try and limit that happening in the future? And then what do we learn from that? And how do we make sure we can improve and be better? And I think, you know, it's not always easy when things go wrong, but I think I'm long enough in the tooth now that I understand that, you know, the bad days don't last. There's always a good day around the corner, and it's about, you know, working out how you get through   Michael Hingson ** 58:10 it. And that's the issue, is working it out. And you have to have the tenacity and, well, the interest and the desire to work it out, rather than letting it overwhelm you and beat you down, you learn how to move forward.   Stuart Pollington ** 58:25 Yeah, and that's not easy, is it? I mean, let's be honest. I mean, even, even being when we were younger and kids, you know, things happen. It does. We're just human, aren't we? We have emotions. We have certain feelings. But if you can just deal with that and then constructively and critically look at the problem, you can normally find a solution.   Michael Hingson ** 58:46 Yeah, exactly. What's one piece of advice you wished you had learned earlier in your entrepreneurial career?   Stuart Pollington ** 58:56 Um, I Yeah. I mean, for this one. I think, I think what you said earlier, actually, it got me thinking during wise we've been talking because I was kind of, I would say, don't be afraid to ask questions just based on what we've been talking about. It's changed a little bit because I was going to say, well, you know, one of the things I really wish I'd learned or known earlier was, you know, about the value of mentorship and kind of finding the the right people who can almost show you where you need to be, but you could, you know, but when people hear the word mentor, they think of either or, you know, someone really, yeah, high up who I could I'm too afraid to ask them, or someone who's going to cost you 1000s of dollars a month. So actually, I'm going to change that to don't be afraid to ask questions, because that's basically what you'd expect from a mentor, is to be able to ask. Questions, run ideas. And I think, I think, yeah, I think thinking back now, understanding that the more questions you ask, the more information you have, the better your decisions you can make. And obviously, don't be afraid to learn from other people's experience, because they've been through it, and potentially they could have the right way for you to get through it as well.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:24 And you never know where you're going to find a mentor. Exactly,   Stuart Pollington ** 1:00:28 yeah, no, exactly. I think again, you hear the word mentor, and you think people have this diff, a certain perception of it, but it can be anyone. I mean, you know, if I my mom could be my mentor, for, for, for her great, you know, cooking and things that she would do in her roast dinners. You know that that's kind of a mentor, isn't it making a better roast dinner? So I think, yeah, I think, I   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:54 think, but it all gets back to being willing to ask questions and to listen,   Stuart Pollington ** 1:01:02 and then I would add one more thing. So ask the questions, listen and then take action. And that's where that unstoppable mindset, I think, comes in, because I think people do ask questions, people can listen, but it's the taking action. It's that final step of having the courage to say, I'm going to do this, I'm going to go for   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:23 it. And you may find out that what was advised to you may not be the exact thing that works for you, but if you start working at it, and you start trying it, you will figure out what works   Stuart Pollington ** 1:01:37 exactly. Yeah, no, exactly. That's it, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:41 Well, what a great place to actually end this. We've been doing this now over an hour, and I know, can you believe it? And I have a puppy dog who probably says, If you don't feed me dinner soon, you're going to be my dinner. So I should probably go do that. That's   Stuart Pollington ** 1:01:57 all good. So for me, I'm going to go and get my breakfast coffee. Now it's 7am now, five past seven in the morning.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:03 There you are. Well, this is my day. This has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate you being here, and I want to say to everyone listening and watching, we really appreciate you being here with us as well. Tell others about unstoppable mindset. We really appreciate that. Love to hear your thoughts and get your thoughts, so feel free to email me with any of your ideas and your your conceptions of all of this. Feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I B, e.com, you can also go to our podcast page. There's a contact form there, and my podcast page is www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and Michael hingson is spelled M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O N. Love to hear from you. Would really appreciate it if you'll give us a five star rating wherever you're watching or listening to the podcast today, if you know anyone and steward as well for you, if any one of you listening or participating knows anyone else that you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, we'd love to hear from you. We'd love introductions, always looking for more people to tell their stories. So that's what this is really all about. So I really appreciate you all taking the time to be here, and Stuart, especially you. Thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun, and we really appreciate you taking your time.   Stuart Pollington ** 1:03:26 Thank you, Michael. Thank you everyone. I really enjoyed that. And you know, in the spirit of everything, you know, if, if anyone does have any questions for me, just feel free to reach out. I'm happy to chat.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:39 How do they do that? What's the best way, I   Stuart Pollington ** 1:03:41 think probably the LinkedIn so I think on when you post and share this, you will have the link. I think   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:49 we will. But why don't you go ahead and say your LinkedIn info anyway? Okay, yeah.   Stuart Pollington ** 1:03:53 I mean, the easiest thing to do would just be the Google search for my name on LinkedIn. So Stuart pollington, it's S, T, U, a, r, t, and then P, O, L, L, I N, G, T, O, N, and if you go to LinkedIn, that is my I think I got lucky. I've got the actual LinkedIn URL, LinkedIn, forward slash, I N, forward slash. Stuart pollington, so it should be nice and easy.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:19 Yeah, I think I got that with Michael hingson. I was very fortunate for that as well. Got lucky with   Stuart Pollington ** 1:04:23 that. Yeah, they've got numbers and everything. And I'm like, Yes, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:30 Well, thank you again. This has been a lot of fun, hasn't   Stuart Pollington ** 1:04:33 it? He has. I've really enjoyed it. So thank you for the invitation, Michael.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:04:42 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

In this episode of The IC-DISC Show, I delve into the journey of Kripke Enterprises from its humble beginnings to its current status as a leader in the scrap metal and recycling industry. Founded by a husband-and-wife team in 1993, the company has grown significantly with the involvement of their son, Matt. They discuss the strategic moves that helped propel their business forward, including key acquisitions like Mid-South Aluminum and a strong focus on aluminum trading. Matt and Scott highlight the importance of relationship building and trust in the scrap metal industry. They share insights into how their reputation and values, like keeping promises and problem-solving, have been instrumental in their success. The episode delves into the symbiotic relationships they have fostered with aluminum suppliers, emphasizing the value of maintaining strong personal connections in business dealings. We also hear about the transformative leadership styles within Kripke Enterprises. The discussion covers how innovative thinking and diverse perspectives, including contributions from those outside the traditional industry, have reshaped the company's culture. Matt and Scott talk about the balance between a hands-off leadership approach and active collaboration with executives to navigate industry changes. Finally, the episode touches on the future of the recycling industry, highlighting the role of technology and innovation. The Kripke team shares stories of employee growth and empowerment, including unique programs aimed at helping employees become homeowners. They reflect on the potential of a younger workforce and the exciting developments in material sorting and AI within the aluminum sector.     SHOW HIGHLIGHTS In this episode, I delve into the inspiring transformation of Kripke Enterprises from a small family venture into a major player in the scrap metal and recycling industry, led by brothers Matt and Scott. I explore the strategic acquisition of Mid-South Aluminum and discuss how building trust and maintaining strong relationships have been key to Kripke's success, emphasizing the unique dynamics of their coil distribution business. We discuss the innovative leadership styles within the company and how they've transformed company culture, with insights into how diverse perspectives, especially from non-traditional industry backgrounds, contribute to their growth. There's a focus on employee empowerment and personal growth stories, such as Eric Phillips' rise from warehouse manager to COO, highlighting Kripke's commitment to fostering leadership and financial education for employees. I cover the positive outcomes from switching to a specialized service provider, which resulted in improved efficiency, response times, and significant tax savings, underscoring the value of expertise in business operations. Advice is shared for younger generations entering the workforce, emphasizing the benefits of starting a career in smaller companies for broader exposure and discussing the impact of technology, especially AI, on the industry. The episode wraps up with a reflection on the excitement surrounding JJ Spahn's US Open victory and the anticipation of future events, providing a light-hearted end to a comprehensive exploration of Kripke Enterprises' journey.   Contact Details LinkedIn - Matthew Kripke (https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-kripke-b225969/) LinkedIn - Scott Chaffee (https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-chaffee-63429bb/) LINKSShow Notes Be a Guest About IC-DISC Alliance About Kripke Enterprises Inc GUEST Matthew KripkeAbout Matthew Scott ChaffeeAbout Scott TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dave: Good afternoon, scott and Matt. How are you? Matt: Fantastic. How are you doing? Dave: I am doing great. I get to talk to one of my favorite scrap metal company representatives, so it's always a good day for me. So let's get started. Where are you guys calling in from today? Matt: We are at Crypto Enterprises headquarters in Toledo, Ohio. Dave: Okay, and I believe that's made famous by the Mudhens right. Isn't that Toledo's claim to fame? Matt: That is correct, the Mudhens which Jamie Farr in MASH used to wax poetic about. Dave: Yeah, his character was Slinger, I believe. Matt: Yeah, you're showing all of our age that. That's how we're starting this interview. We're referencing a show from the 1970s and early 80s, agreed, agreed. Dave: Well, hey, matt, why don't you give us some background? What's the history of kripke, what year was it founded, who founded it and kind of how we got to today? Matt: sure, so kripke enterprises was started on january 4th 1993, which that date is important because that was my mom, or is my mom's birthday. Next year, on January 4th, it will be the 30, let's see 33rd anniversary of Kripke Enterprises and at the same time my mom will be turning 80 years old that day. She'll be thrilled that I shouted out her age in the beginning of this podcast. But the company was founded by my mom and dad. They started out with the two of them and one administrative assistant and the goal was to create a non-Ferris brokerage company where my dad could just put food on the table for him and my mom. They had their third kid at the time in college. Two of their kids had already graduated college and really not very grandiose ambitions. It was just going to be a small little trading company to capitalize on what my dad's career had been, which had been in the scrap metal. I know we call it the recycling industry today, but back then we did not. We called it the scrap metal company Sure, but back then we did not. We called it the scrap metal company Sure Industry and that was their goal and plan. I don't think that really in his mind he was ever going to grow it beyond those three people and I joined them in October of 1994. So the company was a year and a half old at the time. I had no intention of ever joining the company but my my dad got very ill and I came in and kind of kept the company going while he was spending 60 days in and out of the hospital and, um, at the end of 60 days we agreed to find a position for me and then he said to me point blank he said I really don't want to grow this company, but if you ever decide you want to grow it, I'll support you. It's just you have to do it. And okay, that was kind of the beginning and it took a while for me to get the confidence to begin to grow the company. But that process started from me being the fourth employee and today we're just under 70 employees and locations in Toledo, Jackson, Tennessee. We have a trading office in Florida and then we have a few people that work remote in different cities around and what's your commodity focus? Our specialty is aluminum, but we do trade in most metals, but still 95% of our volume is aluminum. Maybe even Scott's going to correct me with the numbers, but maybe even 98 percent is aluminum okay, does that sound right, scott? Dave: yeah, actually 99 okay, that sounds, that sounds good, and so you've had quite a bit of growth. Matt: Yeah, I think you know I would attribute a lot of it to just finding good people and then ultimately getting out of the way. You know, as an example, scott, who's in this interview. He came in in 2011 with us and was instrumental in setting up systems so that we could scale our business, and you know, one of the things people take for granted is that you really need to. You really need good systems in place in order to scale. You really need good systems in place in order to scale. You can grow your business a little bit at a time if you're doing it with spreadsheets and duct tape and super glue and you're MacGyvering it together, but you really need a good CFO and you really need a good IT person in today's day and age as well. Scott: Yeah, and to piggyback off of that, I mean the infrastructure is so important, whether it's the IT infrastructure, the bank line of credit, I mean there's a number of different things and once that's in place, I mean it becomes fairly easy. And I would say that you know we've been able to do that several times now. You know we acquired Mid-South Aluminum in 2017. And the single biggest thing that we were able to help out there was the infrastructure, the line of credit, the system, the line of credit, the system. We were able to, you know, bring them onto our system, and you know it took a company and we were able to increase that at quite a multiple so the hopline sales number when we acquired Mid-South in 17 was about what Scott? Call it about 30 million, and we were able to take it after we joined forces. We were able to take it all the way up to like about 150 million. Dave: Wow, in a short period of time. That is amazing. And so, Scott, how did you end up here? Did you grow up with a lifelong desire to be in the scrap metal business? Matt: He did Next question. Scott: No, go ahead, Scott. You know I can still remember the day. Yeah, so I've been here since 2011. You know, I tell people all the time it was the best move I've ever made, Including marrying his wife. Well, yeah, I'd worked for three large corporations, three international corporations, and even did a lot of international travel. For, and you know it, I can remember I had a mutual friend with Matt and Larry and I can still to this day remember going out to breakfast with them and at the restaurant here in Toledo, and from there I knew, you know, it was a good feeling. You could just, you could tell, I mean, it's got a, we got a great culture here that comes from there. I knew, you know it was a good feeling. You could just, you could tell, I mean, it's got a, we got a great culture here that comes from the top and makes all the difference in the world. Sure, yeah, Sure. Dave: So tell me more about this Mid-South acquisition. What was it about it? Acquisition, what was it about it? Because you know, so many times you do acquisitions, mergers, and you have these grand plans of all the synergies and growth and everything, and oftentimes it doesn't come to fruition, but it sounds like it did in your case. Matt: What would? Scott: you say, made that transaction so successful. What do you think, scott? Well, I, you know, I, I think I think there was a lot for both of us to benefit from. You know it was. The company was basically run on Excel spreadsheets at the time and you know we we had, we had access to a large line of credit with the banks, and so we were able to, you know, tap into that. We had the infrastructure, we brought them onto our system. I think that was probably the relationship that we'd had, or I should say the relationship that Larry and Matt had with the Salih family, and that went back many, many years. I don't know Matt how far back? 20 years before that yeah. Matt: Yeah, I think that's where it really started. So I think Scott tapped on what made it work from a logistics point of view logistical point of view. But that relationship piece is, you know, when you get into a negotiation, a lot of times they stall out because you start the conversation and people get a little freaked out about well, wait a minute. I'm just not sure that I want to do this because I don't know that I can fully trust you and we both had this longstanding trust of each other. We had been business partners for a long time. What made it really interesting to us was, you know, if you think about Mid-South Aluminum is a coil. It's an asset light coil distributor, which essentially means coil broker. But where I say coil distributor, our niche is we buy mill finish coil, bare coil, and we have relationships with various paint lines paint lines and we will get it painted to specific colors for our customers and then ship them. You know painted coil that would be used mainly in the bnc market, sometimes into producing signs, and sometimes mill finish that might go into like hurricane shutters or florida rooms or things like that. Where it's interesting for us is if you think about where coil is sourced from. Those are the same people that we're selling recyclable aluminum into. So we become customers of theirs, supplying them on the scrap side of the business. And then we're a customer of theirs on the other side of the business, buying coil from them. Oh wow, full circle. And so there's times in the cycle where they treat us really well because they really need us to supply them with scrap. And then there's times in the cycle where getting scraps easy but they really need us over here to help them out to take out quill. So interesting we've, because, you know, we kind of have a little bit more leverage, um, in those relationships. And that's become, you know, now, when we acquire mid-south, we, oh, this is going to be great, we're just going to do a ton of tolling. Well, that doesn't always work and, as a matter of fact, more often than not the tolling piece doesn't work. But when it does, it's great, for you know, two different parties. Now that's great. Dave: And this is one of the reasons that. Now, that's great and this is one of the reasons that you know I picked up. You probably know my very first scrap metal client, Arnie Gashman. You probably know Arnie. Everybody knows Arnie, Right. I think he was in college, at TCU, when his father or grandfather became ill. It may have been his grandfather, Maybe his father wasn't very interested in the business, and then I believe his grandfather passed somewhat suddenly. So Arnie was kind of thrust in to take him the place over at like 22 years old. So yeah, and same thing, he stuck around. But one of the things I love about the industry and I've I tried telling friends who aren't in the industry that I said I've never seen an industry where your reputation matters more than in this industry. And I said and I tell them, I said I believe my clients will buy and sell a million dollars of scrap metal on a phone call, like no formal contracts. I mean there may or may not even be an email, that that that documents it. But I said, can you, can you believe that they do transactions just on a handshake? And it's one of the things that I find just great about the industry. Matt: That is a hundred percent true. You know, I would say you know we have three core values that we run our business and we run our business on them, and everyone in our organization can recite them, and they also know that every decision they make needs to be filtered through these three things okay, one is. One is we do what we say, which you're referring to. You know your reputation. That's how you build your reputation by following through on what you say. Two is we provide solutions. And you know where we try to differentiate ourselves is people are used to at least in the recycling side of the business. They're used to rejections and downgrades. I mean, things go wrong and my dad's big thing was always don't call up a customer and say, hey, you got a rejection down in Kentucky, because that's what everyone else does. He said let's differentiate ourselves. Instead of saying that, let's call them up and say, hey, we have an issue, a little bit different verbiage, but before you call them already have worked out two to potentially three solutions of this, and they'll keep it. Two is we ran the freight to bring it up to our warehouse in Toledo is blank and we'll go through and clean it for you and evaluate the load. And a third option is we found this other place that is willing to buy it. If you go that direction. We're still going to owe this metal on the original contract, but this gives you an opportunity to. You know, get out of this loop. And that's the second one. The third one is also what you're referring to. The third core value Relationships are the backbone of our business. Backbone of our business and I think, while unique when we discuss other industries, that is not unique in the scrap metal industry. You know that we will put relationships ahead of making money, that we will say to you know, our employees, employees hey, if you have an opportunity to cement a relationship, don't worry about whether you make money on that particular deal, it'll come back to us many times playing the long game, playing the long game well. Dave: And I just find life's more fun when you do business with people you know as a customer or supplier. It's just more fun when you do business with people you like and trust. And, just like my wife and I have a saying we don't do transactions, we only do relationships. And that even means because everybody wants like a customers, right, don't complain, pay your bills right Easy to work with. Like a customers right, don't complain, pay your bills right Easy to work with. But my wife and I's theories we aspire to be a customers for all of our vendors because we just find it's more fun when you have a problem and the vendor calls you back right away because you're one of their better customers. And it's just more fun when you're you have great working relationships with your vendors, rather than them feeling like you're going to beat them up on price every time you talk to them. Scott: Right, but that's another relationship, you know, it goes way back and there is a lot. I mean, it can't emphasize enough how important relationships are. You know, this weekend I listened to a couple of the podcasts that you've done and there was somebody else that mentioned the importance of the relationship, and it is. I mean, that is definitely the case in everything that we do, even with the banks, like, for example, you know, we go through periods where, okay, maybe we're carrying a little bit more inventory than what we typically carry, or maybe the price is a lot higher than what it was six months ago. It's great to know that we can pick up that phone and say, okay, we've got a temporary situation, maybe it doesn't quite work with our reporting, what can we do? And we'll start talking, talking through some, some options, and I think, because we have a relationship like that with our banks and and others, I mean it makes it makes business a lot easier to do too. And the other thing you touched on was, uh, you know the integrity that is so important and we do what we, you know. And that goes back to another one of our three core values that Matt mentioned is we do what we say. I can remember when I started years ago, larry always used to say, okay, pay on time, pay on time, pay on time. Because, that is a really important thing. It builds trust, it builds a relationship, adds to the integrity. I mean it is really important and you know it goes a long way. Matt: That's the other thing, that pay your bills on time. You know it's's. Yes, there's many industries where that is an issue. But when I have friends and in other industries and I'm like, oh yeah, we pay our bills on time, they look at me like why is that unique? You know, everyone pays their bills on time. Dave: I'm like not in our industry. Matt: I mean there's, you know there's, unfortunately, uh, you know the road is littered with um, a lot of people who give you the highest price and then make you chase them for, uh, that last dollar and, um, you know, that's one of the. You know, if you say, what is our secret sauce and why do people like to do business with us? One of those things is they never have to track our CFO down and say why am I not getting paid? I mean they, they can set their clock to when the payment comes. Dave: Sure, well, you talked about the relationships. I remember when I ran into you guys in San Diego last month, you know, I had a chance to introduce you to a professional who might be able to help you all in a way, and then I happened to sit down and have breakfast with you guys and you were, you all were kind enough to introduce me to some, some guys who I didn't know and some others who I hadn't talked to in a long time. So, uh, yeah, in fact I leave tomorrow to go to san antonio for the gulf coast regional event. Matt: Yeah, I do my guess is there'll be some people from our. I don't even know anymore who goes to which event, but my guess is we have some people who are going to that event. Dave: I would suspect. So I also suspect it'll be warm, so that's my other suspicion. So, Matt, I believe that a few years ago you kind of changed your role with the company. Is that correct? Matt: That is correct. So, in trying to think of the year that we named Chad the president, was that three years ago, so 22. So, so for a number. So let me backtrack a little bit further. In 2012, I worked out an agreement with my dad that was going to be a 10-year buyout of his and my mom's shares in the company. As part of that we agreed that I think right before then I took over as president of the company and my dad became the CEO of the company and he maintained that CEO role almost all the way through that buyout, even though I would say the last five years I would call him he was much more of like our lovable founder than he was really leading the company strategy anymore. Everyone would love when he would come back from Florida and come in the office and and spend time here. I took over the CEO role maybe in 2019 or 20 and was president CEO for a few years, and then we identified my cousin, chad Kripke, as president, or that we're developing him to become the president of the company. Chad is really really strong at risk management and a lot of the. I mean he was one of our rainmakers probably towards the end of his trading career, our largest rainmaker and would put together these monster deals and really good at building relationships. He, you know, I say to people all the time I felt like I was a really good president of a company for a long time, but Chad is 14 years younger than me and Chad is so much better than I ever was at that age I mean he's he's probably better than I was towards the end of when I was president, but he's still learning. He's still learning many things, but he's done a great job in really leading the day-to-day of the company. I'm still learning what it means to. You know, I've been really, really careful about not wanting to step on Scott's toes as CFO, not wanting to step on Andy Golding's toes as our chief strategy officer, eric Phillips as our COO and wanting to give Chad the freedom to lead. That I probably have erred too much on, you know, kind of a laissez faire attitude of you guys make all the decisions and some of them, actually, almost every single person has come back to me and said, hey, we see what you're trying to do. We'd like you to maybe stay involved a little bit more than you have been and we'd like you to voice your opinion a little bit more forcefully than you have been, and it's a tough mix to figure that out, so I'm still learning what that means to lead more on the longer-term strategy side and less on the day-to-day side. But it's really been fun and then, also in 2022, I told you January of 2023, these guys that I mentioned, they all came in and wrote a check to buy some equity in the company, and they are now my partners in the company, which has been fun as well, and you know it's. Dave: that's been a learning experience too, because my only partner prior to this was my dad, okay, oh, that's that is great, and, and I believe that andy is on track to be, uh you know, the chair of uh rima in a couple years right, or three years next year, next year, next year, yeah, okay yeah, so so next, next year, uh, andy's reign of terror begins and, yes, you, I think that it will be very exciting for the industry because Andy thinks differently. Matt: The reason that he's so valuable to us is, I think, very black and white. Yeah, chad is pretty creative, eric is very black and white, scott is very black and white, andy thinks in all these different technicolor ways, okay, and he is going to bring that to the entire REMA board and it will be uncomfortable. I can guarantee you this. The board will be uncomfortable for a couple of years because he will push the boundaries and will get them to think of hey, yes, I acknowledge we've done it this way forever, or we've done it this way for a long time. I just think this is a great idea over here and I'm going to challenge everyone and there's going to be a lot of people that are going to be very uncomfortable, but the industry is going to be better off for it and I can tell you our company is certainly better off because of how creative he is and the way that his mind works. Dave: Yeah, because what do you think about that? Matt: although Scott's the CFO, and I will tell you that sometimes those creative types are not the best at details. What do you think, scott? Scott: It's funny, andy and I have have like a long running joke that you know he always jokes. He'll say, well, I'm extremely detailed, I'm not, you know, we laughed about it. So, but, yeah, I, you know, I think, I think Andy's going to be great for rima. I think that, uh, you know he's gonna, he's gonna bring a lot to the organization and uh, uh, they'll probably be looking at a lot of things a whole lot differently when, uh, yeah that's into the chair position so, matt, you know, I I believe that that Andy does not have a traditional scrap metal background. Matt: What was it? Dave: about him that made you think kind of outside the box and bring in somebody from outside the industry. Matt: Well, in 2004, my dad and I so 2001, we hired our first trader who was not family and that was Marvin Finkelstein in Florida, and Marvin is our senior vice president of domestic sales and trading and Marvin's been with us since 2001. And Marvin's been with us since 2001. 2004, we had a guy hired who was supposed to start like essentially January 1 of 25. And he called us. I think Christmas Eve, called my dad and he said I really appreciate the offer, I really appreciate getting to know you guys even better. I've gotten cold feet and I have this other opportunity and I'm going to take the other opportunity and I think that's the safer way for me to go. And so we knew that we needed to add someone. At the same time, andy was part of a family business that unfortunately ran into some tough times. They were in the auto glass industry and, similar to the way that, like doctor's reimbursement, changes on the whims of the way the insurance companies want to treat different procedures, that industry was having a seismic shift and they were a big enough company. They couldn't move quick enough to get out of the way, and so andy was uh, andy at the time, in september of 2004, had twins, so he then had four kids under four years old and his family business was kind of disintegrating and and I knew andy, we, we had known each other since we were kids and and, um, my dad had known andy probably since close to when he was born and I I pulled my dad aside and I said, hey, this, this thing with this other guy didn't work out. You know, andy is out there looking and he doesn't have any experience in our industry, but this guy is really creative and could be a great sales guy for us. My dad said if you think you can work with him and you don't, and you're not nervous about your friendship getting ruined, then bring him in, let's talk to him. And by February of 2005, we had an agreement worked out. He started and he was was. I mean, he had to learn the metals, he had to learn the industry, but one thing he didn't have to learn was how to be a salesman and how to be creative and okay it. It probably took me maybe three or four years until I started getting comfortable with his crazy ideas. That and they weren't. They weren't crazy, they were crazy to me. But once I got comfortable with, hey, this stuff that he's suggesting it's working. Maybe we should, maybe I should get out of the way and maybe I should get out of the way, and, and you know that success and him being successful encourage us to add Eric Phillips and encourage us to add Chad Kripke. And then we grew to the point that we needed a real CFO and, you know, instead of my dad just coming back from Florida and saying, all right, what do you guys, you know, where are we at, what should I do? And so that, really, you know, starting with Marvin, going to Andy and then adding the others, those were all key moments and, um, a lot of the people we've added did not have, uh, scrap metal or recycling experience prior to joining here, and I think that has actually worked a lot to our advantage to get fresh eyes on things. And instead, instead of someone saying, well, here's the way you do it in your industry, someone coming in and saying, why do you do it this way and can we do this differently? Dave: No, that makes sense. I can appreciate that different perspective that he was able to bring Scott. What do you enjoy the most about your role with Kripke? Scott: Well, I'll tell you what I mean. I think you know I mentioned my background and you know it's just, it is so refreshing to be here compared to, I mean, we're, you know, we got a great culture. I mean we stress that all the time. You know it's so different than you know, what I had previously. I mean we're still, you know, we're still, you know, reasonably small in the grand view of things, so we can change on a dime, you know, we're, we're, we're nimble, we're, you know, and that's the great thing. So we find, we find that if something isn't working, let's, let's do something, try something else. And you know, I I would say between between being able to to quickly change and, you know, I would say, between between being able to to quickly change and, you know, have make a real difference, um, that in just being someplace where the culture is so important, you know and and people feel part of the team. I mean, I, I, you know. I would say that that those are probably two of the biggest things that I enjoy, you know, working here. Dave: So OK, that makes sense. Scott: It goes throughout the entire organization. Dave: So, yeah, I like it. So, Matt, how about you? Same question to you in your current capacity what do you find most enjoyable or satisfying or gratifying in your current role? Matt: I love seeing growth in other people. I love seeing people grab opportunity. Seeing people grab opportunity, and you know I love the stories of someone coming in as a. You know I'll use Eric Phillips as an example. Eric Phillips, in 2008, gets hired to be our warehouse manager. As we decided we were going to move more into. You know, on top of the brokerage, we were going to concentrate also on having a physical operation for reworking and consolidating loads. And he comes in and within probably eight months, my dad pulled me aside and said you know, we really need to bring him up front. He needs to be a trader. He's got everything. He's got all the skills to do that. My dad was really, really good at warehouse manager. You know currently is a COO and a partner in the company, and you know I love seeing that. And then you know we have some other programs that are a little bit unique. We have we want to make people's lives better, not just our customers, but I'm talking about, you know, where Scott references the culture. We put together a program five years ago, I guess, that we put together a new homeowners program and we want to help any of our employees who have never owned a home. We want to help them get a home, and so we put together a six-month financial education course where they do, like these, lunch and learns, and we have a local credit union that comes in and leads these classes, and as long as they go through those courses and as long as they've been with us for one year, then we'll uh, we'll, give them a twenty five hundred dollar uh, at least they have to put up at least twenty five hundred themselves, which, of course, you're gonna have to do that to buy a home, but we'll match up to $2,500 and then we'll give them a hundred dollars a month for three years towards their mortgage. How cool is that? So, you know, keep in mind we're we're pretty small, but we've had five people in the program. We currently have another four that are in classes right now in a series of classes, and of those, I believe that as soon as three of them, as soon as they're done with the course, are going to be ready to buy their first home. So it's, it's exciting and you know, you know, of course, the side benefit of that is it does act a little bit as a golden handcuff. Sure, you know, let's face it, someone's not staying on a job for 100 bucks a month. Yeah, but it does give them something to think about. These guys help me with this and, and if they help me with this, what else are they going to help me with down the road? Dave: Now, that's awesome. So did all five of that first group buy houses then? Matt: We have, we've done. I think this is our fourth different class yeah, so we've had, we haven't had. Sometimes we've had people go through it and say I just want the financial education piece of it because I don't really understand. I hear people talk about credit score, but I don't really understand what it is or how I could affect it. That might be one of them. I hear people talk about what a mortgage is, but what is a mortgage and how does it work? And you know, and then some other people. One of the classes is how do you set up a budget so that you don't, you know, you, you, you don't think getting the house is the finish line. The finish line is making sure you can afford the house. Dave: Yeah, of course, of course. So you have had some people buy houses from the program. Matt: We've had five people. We have five people that we have put in new houses. Dave: Yes, that's awesome. I mean heck, that's almost 10 of your workforce yeah, that's, uh, that's a little under that. Matt: Yeah, a little you know, I would hope you're an account you. You do our icy disc. Your numbers have to be your. Your math skills have to be better than that, david. Well, that was a bit of. It's about seven percent. Well, that's where my that's where my marketing angle came in right. Dave: Just it sounded more appealing to say nearly 10 there you go. But if we look at, but if we look at the percentage of your employees who'd never bought a house before. Now we're talking, you know 20, right? Because some of your employees you know already owned a house before you know they came to work here. I think that is awesome. So, scott, I'd like to just digress just a bit. And so you had another service provider for the IC desk before we came along, and I think I you know, we talked to you for several years. I'd known Matt for a long time, and one of the things we talked about was that I thought we could do a better job from service, kind of turnaround time. And then I also said that we bring a more thorough kind of calculation to the table. And I'm just curious I know this is kind of unscripted, but how and this has been a few years how has that been? Did we live up to the expectation? Is there anything that you were disappointed by? Scott: Yeah, no, for sure, I mean we, we, we can't thank you enough, dave, um, if, if I think back, I think we have. We moved our icdiscs over to you. What three years ago I can remember, we met in nashville yeah, something like two years ago, and I think you'd already had our disc for a year at that point. Does that sound right? Dave: Yeah, I think so. Scott: Yeah, so you know we, I know that you and Matt had been in touch. I think I, you know we, I think you and I had been in touch. You know, before we made that move for for some time move for, uh, for some time, we, you know with, with our previous provider, you know, maybe the response times weren't quite what we had been looking for or expecting and okay, you know we had a couple years of that and uh, and then I can remember matt and I started talking and uh, um, I remember I, uh, I, and I remember I sent you a note at some point and then we started the discussions then and you know we made the move and it's worked out really well for us, not only with the response times and, you know, moving quickly through all the work that needs to be done, because you know it always comes up, the disc always comes up around around the tax deadline date of April 15. So you know it a little bit of a time crunch of the turnaround you know with your firm is is great, but the other, the other important thing here is the additional calculations that that you've been able to do the last couple of years. We've it's it, it. It takes a little bit more detail, but you take it to the next step and you're able to find some additional tax savings with those additional steps that you do Over the years going back, yeah, since 2011, our tax savings with the ICDIS has been anywhere from, say, a few thousand dollars up to the $60,000 to $70,000 range. Okay, and it's been interesting since you took it over, dave, we've been. The last two years have been in the $60,000 to $70,000 range for tax savings. Matt: So I do think it's interesting. I referenced that Scott became a partner in the company right around that time, dave. So I think, now that some of his money, his personal money, is at stake, look at what he's doing. He's really trying to, you know, maximize all these relationships to make sure so it worked. Dave: It worked, matt. It worked exactly like you hoped it would Well. Thank you for your kind words. The team will enjoy hearing that. Your kind words. The team will enjoy hearing that. I know when we were first talking, you'd said that the turnaround time with the prior provider was maybe as long as several months, and I told you that our guaranteed turnaround time is one week from the time we get all the data, and I think you were skeptical One week. Matt: Yeah. Dave: I think the most recent year with some of the more detailed stuff. It may have been a little more back and forth, but kind of from the time we get the final numbers we uh until we turn around the disc return because you know it's kind of like paying your bills on time, right. So we manage over 500 ic discs and whether we take a month to do them all or we take a week to do them all, it's still the same amount of work. The only difference is if we take a week, our clients on average get the work done three weeks sooner than if we take a month. Just like when I was in college I had these friends that were always paying their bills five days late and I'm like you know it costs the same amount of money to pay them five days early Actually less, because you know there's no late payment fees and stuff. So yeah, no we and the other provider, I believe, didn't specialize in just the IC desk. When all you do is one thing, you know, you develop some efficiency. So then anyway, I don't want to make this too much about me. Thank you again for your kind words and your feedback. And you know anything ever not to your satisfaction. You'd be sure to let me know. I can't believe how the time is flying by. I've got a couple other questions as we wrap up, guys, and I'll start, I'm going to start with Scott first. That way you can't steal Matt's answer. So if you could go back in time and give advice to like your 25-year-old self, Scott, what advice might you give yourself, knowing what you know now? Scott: yeah, it's, it's for myself personally. Uh, our, our younger daughter is going to be graduating maybe as soon as a year, and she graduated from college with a finance degree, not not. I have an accounting degree a little bit different, uh-huh. Um, my, my advice to her is probably don't start out with a large corporation I would. Actually I would. I've had a discussion with her a couple of times. I think there's can learn a lot more working at a smaller company whatever, whatever kind of company that is you get. You get a lot more exposure to, uh, to different things. I mean if, if I were to say to do one thing differently, I'd probably say that that would be, uh. Dave: My advice is go to work to my my younger, 25 year old self is to maybe don't over uh, don't over in index on large companies because that's their pitch. Right, you'll be exposed to more stuff you can rotate around, but that you might have considered a smaller operation sooner. Is that about? Scott: something, yeah, exactly. Dave: No, great great advice. Scott: Okay. Dave: Mr Kripke, how about you? What advice might you give to your 25 year old self? Matt: So I would say, I would tell my 25 year old self that in 2025, you should bet the farm on JJ Spahn to win the US Open to when the US opens, no one will have seen it coming. You'll make millions of that. Just mortgage the house, do everything, whatever you can throw at it. The real answer would be don't worry so much. I think we all have a tendency when we're young that everything feels like a big deal and everything feels like the end of the world, and things just have a way of working out. It doesn't mean that life is perfect. It doesn't mean that you're not going to have challenges. You know, kripke Enterprises had its share of challenges over the years that we've had to fight through. My wife and I have had our share of times where we had to band together as a team to get our family through difficult times and those aren't easy. But don't worry so much. Things have a way of working out as long as you put your, you know, as long as you put your nose down and go to work, to work through it. Dave: That's great. I think it was Mark Twain that said I'm an old man and I've known a great number of troubles, most of which never came to be Something to that effect. I've always loved that. Well hey, what did I not ask you guys that you wish I had? Matt: um, I would say I thought you did a really, uh, good job as an interviewer. I think maybe, if we want to talk a little bit about the, the future of the industry, yeah, let's do that. The the other thing that I'm, you know, obviously, obviously technology, you know, not just AI, but AI is going to change every industry, including our industry. People are going to find a way to harness it and put it to work and technology is going to change our industries for the better, which is exciting. Scott: Change our industries for the better, which is exciting which is exciting, but yeah, it's exciting but scary. Matt: The way that we're going to be able to. You know, the dream for years, at least on the aluminum front, has been the ability to really dig deep and really be able to sort material to the nth degree, it back to specific alloys, and it feels like we are almost there. We're really. We're probably 90 to 95 percent of the way there and I think that is going to be really awesome for aluminum. Scary, because any change is scary, and but there's always going in. People say well, you know what does that mean? Does that mean that there's going to be the haves and the have nots? People can afford this new technology and people who can't. My guess is that's what they were saying years and years ago about shredders and years before that about whatever the new equipment was that the industry is constantly evolving. It has to evolve to get better from a technology perspective. What I'm very excited about is, over the last I'd say, six, seven years, scott, we've really added some new traders and most of them are younger than you know. We had an older trading team and most of these people are younger, so good, and so they learn things so quickly and they're interesting and they really the future is bright. And because they're so young, I've gotten to know the people that they meet in the industry who are also younger, and I know a lot of times we're guilty, as I was at one point that young, hungry guy. Now I'm the guy with gray in my beard and no hair in my head and um. And a lot of times we are guilty as old people saying the young people, they don't like to do this or they don't do this sure. I will tell you there may be things that they don't do, but there's so much better and so many other things and I think the future is bright for our industry. We've got really good young people who have entered it and are leading it now. Dave: Oh, that is. That is great. Thank you for for adding that. It was actually on my list and I think I just was sidetracked. Scott, how about you? Anything we should have talked about or that you wish I'd asked you about? Scott: Yeah, I mean you know Matt touched on it briefly I mean, I think the whole AI thing is going to make a huge difference. Maybe five years from now, seven years from now. We're not there yet, but but I mean I see that being a huge, a huge change for us in the not so near future. I mean it's you know, some of the stuff that they're working on right now it's going to get us there. But you know, on the financial administrative side, I think that is going to be the biggest change that we're going to see in the future. Dave: And we see it and we all see it every day. And since we drive the same brand of cars, you know I drove, I drove a,400 mile trip with my wife a couple of weeks ago and this was the first time ever that she sat in the passenger seat the whole time. She didn't need to spell me to give me a break and I people don't believe me I drove about four miles of the 2,400 miles and that was probably a dozen times that I intervened for five to 10 seconds, mostly for convenience and politeness. You know I needed to get over three lanes and the exit was a mile away and I just, you know, wanted to just make it happen. But yeah, we've all seen that AI firsthand, haven't? We Sure have Well, excellent, Well, guys, I really appreciate your time and I also really appreciate the trust that you've shown in us and our team, giving us a chance to demonstrate the value, and just really want to let you know how much we value the relationship. So I really appreciate that right back at you. Matt: We value the relationship with you. Thanks for giving us a chance to talk. Dave: Today was fun yeah, that that sounds great. Well, you guys have a great day. In case the listeners haven't figured it out, so yesterday was the US Open, the JJ Spahn victory that Matt was talking about. What an amazing, amazing win that was. That was exciting, that last after the rain delay was. Matt: I mean it wasn't. I'm sure it wasn't fun for any of them, but boy was that fun to watch. Dave: It was. It was at that, well, hey. Well, thank you guys very much, and if I don't see you sooner, I'll see you in St Louis or in Las Vegas next year, all right, Great Thanks. Dave. Special Guests: Matthew Kripke and Scott Chaffee.

Jet2 (JET2) may be on some listeners' minds thanks to a recent TikTok soundbite that has gone viral, but how are its figures faring? Michael Fahy joins Dan Jones to discuss the travel company's latest results, the demand outlook and how it fares against competitors.Next is Optima Health (OPT). After spinning out from Marlowe (MRL) last year, the occupational health company has pursued a buy-and-build strategy, which seems to be working in its favour. Julian Hofmann explains everything investors need to know.Last up, Alex Newman joins to unveil a handful of new IC stock screens focused on the best businesses from around the world. He explains the background for the decision and a teaser about which screens may work best in the current environment. If you have any thoughts or suggestions on the new screens, email alex.newman@ft.comTimestamps1:18 Jet2 12:28 Optima Health 22:04 New stock screensRead more on these topics:Jet2's robust trading and earnings beat fail to lift sentimentOptima Health acquires to growA new way to find global investment ideas Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week the boys return to run the gauntlet of predictions for the weekend; over 20 picks from 4 different shows. The 1 count is WWE where JCB has some serious beefs with thr tag team booking and Trish Stratus being named as challenger vs Tiffany Stratton. Drew McIntyre makes his return only to get dropped by Randy Orton. Ludwig Kaiser makes his debut as El Grande Americano. Bayley/Lyra/Becky continue to feud over the women's IC title. Seth Rollins and company make a big splash on Monday Night RAW. The 2 count is AEE building towards All In. Mercedes Mone and Toni Storm face off one more time. Megan Bayne gets the 2nd spot in the women's Casino Gauntlet match. FTR vs Outrunners becomes an instant classic. The boys do predictions along the way for All In Saturday Night's Main Event and Evolution. The 3 count is a quick prediction segment for NXT's Great American Bash!Available on all audio podcast platforms. Listen Share Subscribe Repeat! Rate and review on Apple and Spotify!WWEAEW 1:06:40NXT 2:11:45

This week the boys return to run the gauntlet of predictions for the weekend; over 20 picks from 4 different shows. The 1 count is WWE where JCB has some serious beefs with the tag team booking and Trish Stratus being named as the challenger vs Tiffany Stratton. Drew McIntyre makes his return only to get dropped by Randy Orton. Ludwig Kaiser makes his debut as El Grande Americano. Bayley/Lyra/Becky continue to feud over the women's IC title. Seth Rollins and company make a big splash on Monday Night RAW. The 2 count is AEW building towards All In. Mercedes Mone and Toni Storm face off one last time. Megan Bayne gets the 2nd spot in the women's Casino Gauntlet match. FTR vs Outrunners becomes an instant classic. The boys do predictions along the way for All In Saturday Night's Main Event and Evolution. The 3 count is a quick prediction segment for NXT's Great American Bash!Available on all audio podcast platforms. Listen Share Subscribe Repeat! Rate and review on Apple and Spotify!WWEAEW 1:06:40NXT 2:11:45

BKFC President David Feldman joins us to discuss BIG things coming to the Sport Feldman previews a few major announcements that will Change the League and Sport as a whole David teases a big time announcement including some major signings to the Roster Feldman describes why BKFC's audience goes beyond fight fans Bare Knuckle on Ice?!?! How Hockey teams in the NHL are now hiring BKFC fighters to train their enforcers David previews the Card this weekend that seems to be stacked with Knock Out Power Fighters A record setting night on the Horizon for Feldman and BKFC We pick our First Line of Hockey Thugs that we would have participate in Fights on IC

The Big Five Project returns just in time for things to start improving in our chronological compilation of the history of WWE's Big Five PPVs. As bad as King of the Ring '95 was, things could only get better. And get better they did with Summer Slam '95. A much better card saw some outstanding matchups such as Hakushi vs the 1-2-3 Kid, Barry Harowitz winning a match, a casket match between Kama and The Undertaker, the PPV debut of Isaac Yankem, DDS (who would go on to a much more fiery career in WWE) as he faced Bret "Hitman" Hart. By far and away, the best match of the night was a rematch of WrestleMania X, a ladder match for the IC title between Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon. The match was good enough to be deemed watch-along worthy, and the guys do just that on this Episode. It's not all good, though, as we also have Bertha Faye beating Alundra Blayze for the Women's Championship and King Mable nearly breaking the WWF Champion, Diesel, in half during their title match. But Summer Slam '95 was a definite step in the right direction for Vince McMahon and the WWF, and we have all the details for you here on another epic installment of the Big Five Project!About the Chairshot Radio NetworkLaunched in 2017, the Chairshot Radio Network presents you with the best in sports, entertainment, and sports entertainment. Wrestling and wrestling crossover podcasts + the most interesting content + the most engaging hosts = the most entertaining podcasts you'll find!MONDAY - Bandwagon Nerds (entertainment & popular culture)TUESDAY - 4 Corners Podcast (sports)WEDNESDAY - The Greg DeMarco Show (wrestling)THURSDAY - POD is WARFRIDAY - DWI Podcast (Drunk Wrestling Intellect)SATURDAY - The Mindless Wrestling PodcastSUNDAY - Keeping the news ridiculous... The Oddity / The Front and Center Sports PodcastCHAIRSHOT RADIO NETWORK PODCAST SPECIALSAttitude Of Aggression Podcast & The Big Five Project (chronologically exploring WWE's PPV/PLE history)http://TheChairshot.com PRESENTS...IMMEDIATE POST WWE PLE REACTIONS w/ DJ(Mindless), Tunney(DWI) & FriendsPatrick O'Dowd's 5X5Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/chairshot-radio-network/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Our host Alex got MARRIED this week to his wonderful Valet! Filled with great food, beautiful venues, amazing music, dancing and friends. Over in WWE we prep for Saturday Nights Main Event and Evolution 2025 with Becky Defending her IC title and Goldberg having his retirement match against Gunther. AEW heads into All In Texas where Hangman hopes to finish the story in a Texas Death match, Mercedes Mone hopes to add Toni Storm's title to her collection, and TK promises us a card filled back to back with BangersWHAT DO YOU LOVE ABOUT PRO WRESTLING?

Open-source intelligence, or OSINT, has reached an inflection point in the IC. Several agencies in recent years have published strategies aimed at better harnessing OSINT. Now, they're embarking on new initiatives to improve data collection and management, train the workforce, and share best practices across the community. But a multitude of challenges remain, including skills gaps, data siloes, bureaucratic and cultural barriers, funding challenges, and more.Recently, I brought together a panel of experts to debate and discuss the past, present and future of OSINT in the intelligence community. The guests on this episode are:David Gauthier, the chief strategy officer for CXO, and the visiting fellow at the National Security Institute and former director of commercial operations at the National Geospatial-Intelligence AgencyEllen McCarthy, the CEO of the Trust in Media Cooperative, and former assistant secretary of state for the bureau of intelligence and researchChip Usher, the senior director for intelligence at the Special Competitive Studies Project, and a former CIA executiveEliot Jardines, the founder and director of the OSINT Foundation, and former assistant deputy director of national intelligence for open sourceSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What happens when your bladder pain starts in childhood, but doctors don't believe you until adulthood? In this episode, I talk with Callie Krajcir, IC dietitian, coach, and founder of "Road to Remission," about her journey from suffering in silence to becoming symptom-free. We unpack the layers of interstitial cystitis (IC), pelvic floor dysfunction, and the nervous system's role in chronic pain. Callie opens up about college struggles, pelvic PT challenges, pelvic wand use, and how she helps hundreds of women find hope and healing. Whether newly diagnosed or still searching for answers, this episode is a must-listen.For more information on Callie:Callie K Nutrition@callieknutritionTimeline:00:30 Introduction 00:46 Callie's Journey with Interstitial Cystitis 02:15 Becoming an IC Dietician 03:19 Helping Others: Programs and Platforms 05:17 Common Symptoms of IC 07:49 College Struggles and Athletic Challenges 10:12 Pelvic Floor and Physical Therapy Insights 12:51 Diagnosis and Treatment Experiences 24:14 The Importance of Support and Positive Mindset 29:19 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

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Sometime ago I had the pleasure to have as a guest a gentleman named Rob Wentz. Rob appeared in episode 212 on March 8, 2024. Recently Rob introduced me to a man he described as amazing and definitely unstoppable. That introduction led to me having the opportunity to have today, Ken Kunken, the man Rob introduced me to. Ken's story is atypical to most. He had a pretty normal childhood until he went to Cornell. Rob was pretty short, but he loved all things sports and active. In his junior year he participated in a lightweight football game against Columbia University. On a kickoff he tackled an opponent but broke his neck in the process. Immediately he became a quadriplegic from the shoulders down. As he tells us, his days of physical activity and sports came to an abrupt end.   I asked Ken how he dealt with his injury. As he tells me, his family rallied around him and told him they were all there to help with whatever he needed to continue in school and to move on with his life. They were true to their word and Ken did continue to attend school after nine months of hospitalization. He secured a bachelor's degree in industrial engineering. He went on to get a Master's degree from Cornell in Industrial Engineering and then a second Master's degree this time from Columbia University in Psychology as he decided he really wanted to “help people especially those with serious disabilities” rather than continuing in the Civil Engineering arena. Ken then secured a job that led to him becoming a successful rehabilitation counselor in New York.   Ken wasn't done growing nor exploring. After two years working in the rehabilitation field through circumstances and advice from others, he went to Hofstra school of law where he obtained a Juris Doctor degree in 1982. He then went to work in the office of a district attorney where, over 40 years he progressed and grew in stature and rank.   Ken tells us how his life changed over time and through the many jobs and opportunities he decided to take. Twenty-two years ago, he married Anna. They ended up having triplet boys who now all are in school at the age of Twenty.   Ken is as unstoppable as it gets. He refused to back down from challenges. He is now retired and loving the opportunity to be with his family and help others by telling his story.     About the Guest:   In 1970, while a junior in Cornell University's College of Engineering, Ken Kunken broke his neck making a tackle on a kick-off in a lightweight football game against Columbia University. Ken sustained a spinal cord injury at the C 4-5 level, rendering him a quadriplegic, almost totally paralyzed from the shoulders down. Ken spent more than 9 months in various hospitals and rehabilitation facilities. While still a patient, Ken testified before a United States Senate Sub-Committee on Health Care, chaired by Senator Edward Kennedy. In 1971, almost 20 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act, Ken returned to the Cornell campus, where he completed his undergraduate degree in Industrial Engineering. Ken estimates that he had to be pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps just to attend his first day of classes.   Ken is the first quadriplegic to graduate from Cornell University. Upon graduation, Ken decided to change his career goal. He wanted to work with and help people, particularly those with disabilities. Ken went on to earn a Master of Arts degree at Cornell in education and a Master of Education degree at Columbia University in psychology. Ken is the first quadriplegic to earn a graduate degree from Cornell University. In 1977, Ken was hired by Abilities Inc. in Albertson, NY to be its College Work Orientation Program Coordinator. Ken coordinated a program which provided educationally related work experiences for severely disabled college students. He also maintained a vocational counseling caseload of more than 20 severely disabled individuals.   While working at the Center, Ken became a nationally certified rehabilitation counselor and made numerous public presentations on non-discrimination, affirmative action and employment of the disabled. In 1977, Ken was named the Long Island Rehabilitation Associations “Rehabilitant of the Year” and in 1979 Ken was the subject of one of the Reverend Norman Vincent Peale's nationally syndicated radio broadcasts “The American Character”. Wanting to accomplish still more, Ken enrolled in Hofstra University's School of Law, where he earned a Juris Doctor degree in 1982. Ken then went to work as an assistant district attorney in Nassau County, Long Island.   Ken was promoted a number of times during his more than 40 years with the District Attorney's Office, eventually becoming one of the Deputy Bureau Chiefs of the County Court Trial Bureau, where he helped supervise more than 20 other assistant district attorneys. In addition, over his years working in the Office, Ken supervised more than 50 student interns.   In 1996 Ken received the Honorable Thomas E. Ryan, Jr. Award presented by the Court Officers Benevolent Association of Nassau County for outstanding and dedicated service as an Assistant District Attorney. In 1999, Ken was awarded the George M. Estabrook Distinguished Service Award presented by the Hofstra Alumni Association, Inc. Beginning in 2005, for nine consecutive years, “The Ken Kunken Most Valuable Player Award” was presented annually by The Adirondack Trust Allegiance Bowl in Saratoga Springs, NY, in recognition of Ken's personal accomplishments, contributions to society and extraordinary courage.   In 2009, Ken became a member of the Board of Directors of Abilities Inc., and in 2017 he became a member of the Board of Directors for the parent company of Abilities Inc., the Viscardi Center.   In 2020, Ken was inducted into “The Susan M. Daniels Disability Mentoring Hall of Fame,” as a member of the class of 2019.   In December 2023, “The Kenneth J. Kunken Award” was presented by the Nassau County District Attorney's Office, for the first time, to an outstanding Nassau County Assistant District Attorney who personifies Ken's unique spirit and love of trial work, as well as his commitment and dedication, loyalty to his colleagues and his devotion to doing justice. The Award will be presented annually.   In March 2024, Ken was named one of the Long Island Business News Influencers in Law. Ken retired from full-time employment in 2016, but continued to work with the District Attorney's Office for the next eight years in a part time capacity, providing continuing legal education lectures and litigation guidance.   For years, Ken has tried to inspire people to do more with their lives. In October 2023, Ken's memoir “I Dream of Things That Never Were: The Ken Kunken Story” was published. In 2003 Ken married Anna and in 2005 they became the proud parents of triplet boys: Joey, Jimmy and Timmy. On June 23, 2023 the triplets graduated from Oceanside High School, fifty-five years after Ken had graduated from the same school. Ways to connect with Ken:   https://www.facebook.com/ken.kunken https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566473121422 https://www.instagram.com/ken.kunken/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-j-kunken-b4b0a9a8/ https://www.youtube.com/@Ken.Kunken https://bsky.app/profile/kenkunken.bsky.social   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello once again, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Michael hingson, and today we have a fascinating guest, I believe. Anyway, his name is Ken. Kuan, kunken. Am I pronouncing that right? Yes, you are. Oh, good. And Ken, in 1970 underwent a problem when he was playing football and doing a tackle on a kickoff. Namely, he broke his neck and became a quadriplegic, basically from the shoulders down. I'm sort of familiar with the concept, because my wife, from birth was in a wheelchair. She was a paraplegic, paralyzed from the t3 vertebrae down, which was like right below the breast, so she was able to transfer and so on. So not quite the same, but a lot of the same issues, of course, and we're going to talk about that basically, because when you're in a wheelchair, like a lot of other kinds of disabilities, society doesn't tend to do all they should to accommodate. And I can, can make that case very well. Most people are light dependent, and we have provided reasonable accommodations for them by providing light bulbs and light on demand wherever they go, wherever they are, whatever they do, while at the same time for people who are blind, we don't get the same degree of access without pushing a lot harder. And people in wheelchairs, of course, have all sorts of physical issues as well, such as stairs and no ramps and other things like that. And I know that Ken's going to talk some about that from university days and my wife Karen face some of the same things. But anyway, we'll get to it all. Ken, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. And I think your wife, Anna is visiting with us also, right, right? Thank you. Michael, so Anna, welcome as well. Thank you so Ken. Why don't we start if we could by you telling us sort of about the early Ken, growing up and all that from being a child, and tell us a little bit about you.   Ken Kunken ** 03:40 Okay, well, if you're going back to my childhood area, Yeah, it sure is. It's quite a while ago, but I was born in 1950 and that happened to be in the midst of the polio epidemic, and unfortunately, my mother contracted polio and died when I was less than one month old. So I have an older brother, Steve, who's two years older than me, and my father brother and I ended up moving in with my grandparents for a few years before my father remarried when I was four years old. A long shot. But what's your birth date? Right? My birth date is July 15, 1950 on   Michael Hingson ** 04:23 February 24 1950 So, okay, was was just kind of hoping there was the possibility, right? Anyway, go ahead.   Ken Kunken ** 04:30 So, um, during my father's second marriage, that's when my sister Merrill was born. She's 10 years younger than I am, but unfortunately, that was not a happy marriage, and it ended in a divorce. And when I was 18, my father married for the third time. So you know, growing up in a household with a number of individuals seemingly coming and going was a little different than most people's   Michael Hingson ** 04:57 households when they were growing up. How. Was that for you?   Ken Kunken ** 05:01 Well, you know, it was nice in the sense that I got involved with a lot of different family members in my extended family. I'm very close, growing up with my grandparents, with aunts, uncles, cousins, as well as my sister and brother. And you know, I had the opportunity to interact with a lot of different people. It was difficult during my father's second marriage, because it was not a happy marriage, and, you know, it worked out in everybody's best interest when that ended in divorce. But I look back at my childhood, and I just basically call it as a very happy childhood?   Michael Hingson ** 05:42 Oh, good. Well, so no real major traumas, certainly differences, but no real harrowing kinds of things that just threw you into a complete topsy turvy at least as far as you're concerned, right? Yeah. Well, then you decided to go to Cornell, as I recall, and I know Cornell has a, I think it's a master's program, but an advanced program in hospitality. So did they feed you well at Cornell?   Ken Kunken ** 06:13 Yes, they had a very good system and fed us very well. And they have a program in hotel management, right, which I was not involved in, but there was a lot of good food at Cornell when we were there.   Michael Hingson ** 06:28 Well, that's that's always important, you know, you got to have good food at UC Irvine. We were okay. Food wise. I was on the food committee for the dorms, actually, and the food was all right, but when they had steak night that they always made a big deal about the steak was usually pretty tough, and so we we had sometimes that the food wasn't great, but they had a great soft serve ice cream machine, so lot of people took advantage of that. But anyway, so when you were at Cornell, you played football,   Ken Kunken ** 07:01 right? I was on their lightweight football team. It's for people that were smaller than the heavyweight team. When I was playing, you had to weigh 154 pounds or less two days before the game. So most of the people had played on their high school teams was too small to play on the varsity college team, but it was a varsity sport. Most of the people were very good athletes and very fast, and it was very competitive sport.   Michael Hingson ** 07:35 So tell us about that and what happened.   Ken Kunken ** 07:38 Well, during my junior year, I was injured making a tackle on a kickoff in a game against Columbia University, and when I tackled the ball carrier, I broke my neck and damaged my spinal cord, and as a result, I'm a quadriplegic. I'm almost totally paralyzed from the shoulders down,   Michael Hingson ** 08:01 and so, what kind of effect? Well, that clearly that that was pretty bad news and so on. So what kind of effect did that have on you, and how did that shape what you did going forward?   Ken Kunken ** 08:15 Oh, it totally changed my perspective on everything about myself. I mean, growing up, my life seemed to center around sports. In high school, I played on the varsity football team. I wrestled on the varsity wrestling team. I played on four different intramural softball teams. I worked on the summer as a lifeguard. Everything in my life revolved around athletics and being physically active. Now, suddenly, I couldn't be physically active at all. In fact, I am totally sedentary, sitting in a wheelchair, and I need assistance with all my activities of daily living now.   Michael Hingson ** 08:54 So what did you do when the injury happened and so on? So how did you deal with all of that?   Ken Kunken ** 09:01 Well, it was a really difficult adjustment to make. I mean, suddenly I became dependent on everybody around me, because there was not one thing I could do for myself. So it was very difficult knowing that now not only was I dependent on others, but I had to be more outgoing to be able to have asked for help when I needed it, which was difficult for me, because I had always considered myself a bit of shy person, a bit of an introvert, and now I needed to be more vocal with respect to all of my needs. So I swear, go ahead. Well, I spent the next nine months and 20 days in various hospitals and rehabilitation centers, and it was really, really difficult getting used to my new physical condition.   Michael Hingson ** 09:52 But at the same time, you could have taken the position that you just hated yourself and you just wanted to I. Make life end and so on. And it doesn't sound like that was the approach that you took.   Ken Kunken ** 10:04 Mike, I was so fortunate that I had a very supportive family who were with me and helped me every step of the way. In fact, they basically assured me that they would act as my arms and legs to make sure I could still do everything I wanted to do in my life   Michael Hingson ** 10:22 doesn't get much better than that, having a real supportive village, if you will.   Ken Kunken ** 10:27 Right? I was so fortunate, and you know, I think that helped me be able to do many things in my life that most people thought would not be possible for someone in my condition, and I was able to do it because of the help I received from my family.   Michael Hingson ** 10:44 So what did you major in at Cornell? Let's say, before the injury.   Ken Kunken ** 10:50 I before my injury, I was majoring in industrial engineering, okay? And you know, after my injury, I went back to school and continued my studies in industrial engineering and actually obtained my degree, a Bachelor of Science in industrial engineering.   Michael Hingson ** 11:08 Now, what primarily is industrial engineering?   Ken Kunken ** 11:12 Well, you know, it's kind of a technical aspect of dealing with men, material, machines, and, you know, most likely working at a business where there are a lot of different people working there, where you would try and find out what the best way of people to operate, whether it be in a factory or just in a large business setting, when you're dealing with technical aspects of the job. But I never actually worked as an engineer, because, following my degree, based on the recommendation of one of my psychology professors, I stayed at Cornell and pursued a career in counseling. And I find that a lot more suitable to not only my physical condition, but what I really wanted to do. Because, following my injury, I knew that what I really wanted to do was to devote my life and career to helping others.   Michael Hingson ** 12:08 So you very well could have made the same switch and made the same choices, even if you hadn't undergone the accident,   Ken Kunken ** 12:17 absolutely and hopefully, I would have, because I found it a lot more enjoyable, and I believe it taught me a lot about dealing with people, and it made me feel very good about myself to know that I was still in a position, despite my disability, where I could help others.   Michael Hingson ** 12:40 So you stayed at Cornell and got that master's degree in counseling, which, which really gave you that opportunity. What did you do after that?   Ken Kunken ** 12:50 Well, to increase my counseling credentials, I then went to Columbia University, where I obtained my second degree. This one was also in counseling. That degree was in psychological counseling and rehabilitation, and I decided to look for a job in the rehabilitation counseling field. And now that I had two degrees from Cornell and one from Columbia, three prestigious Ivy League degrees, two master's degrees, I didn't think I'd have much difficulty securing employment, but to my dismay, no one would hire me. This was in the mid 70s, and everyone seemed to feel I was just too disabled to work.   Michael Hingson ** 13:32 Now, why did you go to Columbia to get your second degree, your masters in rehabilitation,   Ken Kunken ** 13:39 you know? And incidentally, it that was the school I actually was injured against during the football   Michael Hingson ** 13:44 I know that's why I asked the enemy, right?   Ken Kunken ** 13:47 Yeah, but I actually applied there for my doctorate, doctorate in counseling psychology. And initially I didn't get into that program, but they invited me to participate in their master's program, and said that they would reconsider my application when I finished that degree. Now, I thought that was a special letter that I got from them because of my injury, and I thought they just wanted to see me that I could do graduate work. As it turned out, virtually everybody that applied for that program got a similar letter, and when I first met with my advisor there at Columbia, he said, you know, if you didn't get in the first time, you're probably not going to get in even when you graduate. So since I had nothing else to do at that point, I enrolled in the master's program, and I completed my second master's degree. And you know, at the time, even my advisor was pessimistic about my work prospects, wow, just because of my ability, because of my disability, and despite. Fact that here they were training people to be rehabilitation counselors and encouraging people to go into that field, they felt that due to my disability, I would still have a very difficult time gaining employment,   Michael Hingson ** 15:14 which is as ironic as it gets,   Ken Kunken ** 15:17 absolutely, absolutely and I was just very fortunate that there was a facility on Long Island called abilities Incorporated, which was part of what was then called the Human Resources Center. Is now called the Viscardi Center, after its founder, Dr Henry Viscardi, Jr, and they hired me to work as a vocational rehabilitation counselor for other individuals who had severe disabilities.   Michael Hingson ** 15:46 I'm a little bit familiar with the buscardi Center, and have found them to be very open minded in the way they operate.   Ken Kunken ** 15:54 They were terrific, absolutely terrific. And I was so fortunate to get involved with them, to be hired, to work for them, and, you know, to be associated with all the fine work they were doing it on behalf of helping other individuals with disabilities.   Michael Hingson ** 16:13 So was it primarily paraplegics and quadriplegics and so on, or did they do blind people and other disabilities as well.   Ken Kunken ** 16:21 They did a lot of different disabilities, but they did not work with people that were visually impaired. For that in New York state, there was a special agency called the commission for the visually handicapped that helped people with visual impairments, but we dealt with all different types of disabilities, whether people were hearing impaired or had not just spinal cord injuries, but other disabilities, either from birth or disabilities that they developed through diseases. And as it turned out, I was probably one of the most severely disabled of the people that I dealt with.   Michael Hingson ** 17:02 Well, but you were also, by any definition, a good role model.   Ken Kunken ** 17:06 Well, I was fortunate that I was able to help a lot of different people, and I felt that when they looked at me and saw that I was able to work despite my disability, I know it encouraged them to do their best to go out and get a job themselves.   Michael Hingson ** 17:24 And of course, it really ultimately comes down to attitude. And for you, having a positive attitude had to really help a great deal.   Ken Kunken ** 17:34 I think it made all the difference in the world. And I was very fortunate that it was my family that instilled that positive attitude in me, and they gave me so much help that after a while, I thought I'd be letting them down if I didn't do everything I could do to make something out of my life.   Michael Hingson ** 17:53 So what did you do? Well, not only   Ken Kunken ** 17:57 did I go back to school and complete my education, but I went to work and, you know, got up early every day, and with the aid of a personal care attendant, I was able to go to work and function as a vocational counselor and help others in trying to achieve their goals.   Michael Hingson ** 18:17 Now, were you going to school while you were doing some of this?   Ken Kunken ** 18:20 No, I finished my second okay, and now was able to work full time.   Michael Hingson ** 18:27 Okay, so you did that, and how long did you work there?   Ken Kunken ** 18:32 Well, I worked there for a little over two years, and you know, my duties and responsibilities kept expanding while I was there, and one of my duties was to speak at conferences before groups and organizations concerning affirmative action and non discrimination for people with disabilities. And often after my talks, I would be asked questions, and while I would do my best to respond appropriately, I was always careful to caution the question is that they should really consult with a lawyer about their concerns. And I guess it didn't take long before I started to think, you know, there's no reason why I couldn't become that lawyer. So after a little over two years, I decided to leave the job, and I went to Hofstra University School of Law.   Michael Hingson ** 19:20 So now what? What year was this?   Ken Kunken ** 19:24 I left the job. I started the job in 77 I left in 79 when I started law school.   Michael Hingson ** 19:32 Okay, so you went to Hofstra,   Ken Kunken ** 19:35 right? And while I was at Hofstra through my brother's suggestion. My brother was working as a public defender at the time, he suggested I do an internship at the district attorney's office. So after my second year of law school, I did an internship there during the summer, and I found a new way. I could help people and serve the community as a whole, and I really enjoyed that work. So when I was in my third year of law school, I applied for a full time position with the district attorney's office, and I was very fortunate that the district attorney was a very progressive, self confident individual who based his hiring decision on my abilities rather than my disability.   Michael Hingson ** 20:27 Wow, that had to be, especially back then, a fairly, as you said, progressive, but an amazing thing to do, because even today, there are so many times that we get challenges and too many things thrown in our way, but you had someone who really thought enough of you and obviously decided that your abilities were such on the job that you could do   Ken Kunken ** 20:51 it. I was very fortunate to have come in contact with the district attorney at the time. His name was Dennis Dillon, and he seemed to know that when I'd go to court, a jury was not going to base its verdict on my inability to walk, but rather on my skill and competence as an attorney. And thanks to the training and guidance I received in the office, I became a very confident and competent, skilled trial attorney   Michael Hingson ** 21:22 well, and it had to be the way you projected yourself that would convince a jury to decide cases in the right way. So again, kudos to you.   Ken Kunken ** 21:33 Thank you. Well, I certainly did my best to do that, and at the time that I applied for this job, I didn't know of any quadriplegics that were trial attorneys. May have been some, but I didn't know of any. Certainly there were none on Long Island, and certainly no assistant district attorneys at the time that I knew of who were quadriplegics.   Michael Hingson ** 21:59 Now, of course, the question that comes to mind is, so was the office accessible?   Ken Kunken ** 22:05 No question. And you know, let me just go further by telling you that my first day in court, I couldn't even fit through the swinging doorways in the courtroom. They were too narrow to let me get through to get to the prosecutor's table, because my electric wheelchair was too wide.   Michael Hingson ** 22:24 What did you do? Or what happened?   Ken Kunken ** 22:27 Well, eventually they had to take off the swinging doorways and the screws and bolts that kept them in place, but usually I had to go very roundabout on a long way to get to the back of each courtroom and go through the back, which was really difficult. And one of my assignments happened to be to our traffic court Bureau, which was in a neighboring building on the second floor, and unfortunately, there the elevator was broken. So after three days, I was actually received my first promotion, because they didn't know when it would be fixed. But eventually I was able to get into court, and I did a lot of litigation while I was   Michael Hingson ** 23:10 there. How did judges react to all of this?   Ken Kunken ** 23:15 You know, it was very new to them as well. And you know, there are times when you needed to approach the bench and talk very quietly, you know, to so the jury wouldn't hear you, and it was very difficult, because benches are elevated, yeah. And I had difficulty approaching the bench or even turning my head side enough to look up at the judges and then for them to hear me. And sometimes they would have to get off the bench, and, you know, meet me on the side of the courtroom to have conferences and but for the most part, I thought they were very supportive. I thought they appreciated the hard work that I was doing, and I think they tried to be accommodating when they could.   Michael Hingson ** 23:58 Did you ever encounter any that just were totally intolerant of all of it,   Ken Kunken ** 24:02 sure, you know, many of them were very impatient. Some of them had difficulty hearing and when I was trying to look up and talk to them without the jury hearing, some of them had trouble hearing me because, you know, they were much higher up than I was in my wheelchair. So it was very challenging.   Michael Hingson ** 24:23 I was involved in a lawsuit against an airline because they wouldn't allow me and my guide dog to sit where we wanted to sit on the airplane, which was in direct violation of even the rules of the airline. And when it went to court, the judge who was assigned it was a federal judge, and he was like 80, and he just couldn't hear anything at all. It was, it was really too bad. And of course, my and my wife was was with me, and of course, in her chair, so she wasn't sitting in a regular row. And he even grilled her, what are you doing? Why aren't you sitting in a row? And she said, I'm in a wheelchair. Oh, yeah, it's amazing that hopefully we are we have progressed a little bit from a lot of that the last thing. So, yeah, the lawsuit was 1985 so it was a long time ago, and hopefully we have progressed some. But still, there are way too many people who don't get it, and who don't understand nearly as much as they should, and don't internalize that maybe we're not all the same, and we can't necessarily do everything exactly the same every single time,   Ken Kunken ** 25:35 right? And you know, I had the added misfortune of having my injury 20 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed, and that made an enormous difference for not just people in wheelchairs, but people with all different types of disabilities.   Michael Hingson ** 25:53 So how did you, in general, learn to deal with people's perceptions of you, rather than the reality? Well, that is a lot. Yeah, there are lots of perceptions, right?   Ken Kunken ** 26:07 You know, many people think that because you have a physical disability, that you must also have an intellectual disability. And people would often come into my room and wherever I was, whether it was when I was first in the hospital or later at the office and speak to the person next to me and ask them questions about me, as if I couldn't speak for myself, yeah, even as if I wasn't even there. And it took a while for me to be more outgoing and convince people that, yes, they can deal with me. You know, I can still talk and think. And I think whenever a jury came into the courtroom for the first time, I think they were very surprised to see the prosecutor as somebody with a disability who was sitting in an electric wheelchair.   Michael Hingson ** 26:56 I know once we went to a restaurant, and of course, having a family with two people in two different disabilities, went to this restaurant, and we were waiting to be seated, and finally, Karen said the hostess is just staring at us. She doesn't know who to talk to, because I'm not making eye contact, necessarily. And Karen, sitting in her chair is way lower. And so Karen just said to me, Well, this lady doesn't know who to talk to. So I said, Well, maybe we can get her to just ask us what what we want and what help we need. Are carrying on the conversation. Got this, this nice lady to recognize. Oh, you know, I can talk with them. And so she said, Well, how can I help you? And we both kind of said we'd like to sit and have breakfast. Oh, okay, and it went well from there. But it is, it is a challenge, and people have crazy perceptions, I know, going down the stairs at the World Trade Center on September 11, when I encountered the firefighters coming up for a while, they blocked me from going because they decided that I needed help, and they would, they would ask me questions, like, we're going to help you. Is that okay? And I said, No, it's not. But they always talked loud, because if you're blind, you obviously can't hear either, right? And it was difficult to get them to deal with all of that. And finally, I had to just say, Look, I got my friend David over here, who can see we're working together. We're fine, and they let us go because I had a sighted person with me, not that I had the ability to go downstairs, even though I had to help keep David focused sometimes, and also, there's no magic for a blind person to go downstairs. You know, you go down the stairs, you hold the rail, you turn left there, in this case, and you go down the next batch of stairs. But people don't recognize that. Maybe there are techniques that we use to deal with the same things that they deal with, only in a different way.   Ken Kunken ** 29:03 Absolutely, and that applies to work as well. I mean, people assume that if you can't do a job the way most people seem to do it, who don't have a disability, they automatically assume you're not going to be able to function at all at the job. Yeah, and a lot of times, it takes a lot of convincing to show people that there are other ways of approaching a problem and handling a work situation.   Michael Hingson ** 29:27 One of the common things that we as blind people face, and it happens in schools and so on, is, Oh, you don't need to learn braille that's outmoded. You can listen to books that are computer generated or recorded and so on. And the reality is, no we need to learn braille for the same reason the sighted people learn to read print, and that is, it's all about learning to spell. It's learning about sentence structure and so on, and it's learning about having better ways to be able to truly enter. Interact with the text as I tell people, I don't care what anyone says, you will not learn physics as well from recordings as you can by truly having access to everything in a braille book, because you can refer back easier, and they've done some improvements in recording, but it's still not the same as what you get when you do Braille, which is the same thing for you reading print, or any other sighted person reading print. You read that print because there are various reasons why you need to do that, as opposed to learning how to just listen to books recorded anyway,   Ken Kunken ** 30:36 right? Well, I had the added misfortune of being injured well before they had laptop   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 computers. Yeah, me too. Well, I yeah, not. I wasn't injured, but yeah,   Ken Kunken ** 30:46 right. So trying to do my schoolwork or later work at a job, you know, it posed even more challenges. Now, of course, having ebooks and being able to use a computer, it's made a big difference, not just for me, but for many individuals.   Michael Hingson ** 31:04 Sure, do you use like programs like Dragon Naturally Speaking to interact with the computer?   Ken Kunken ** 31:10 You know, I tried that, and I had a lot of difficulty with it. I know you need to train it. And when I first tried it, which was in its infancy, it just wasn't responding well to my voice, so I don't use that. I've been fortunate with that with advancements in wheelchairs, my wheelchair now has a Bluetooth device connected to my joystick, and I could actually move my left arm a little bit where I could work the joystick and move the mouse on my computer, moving my joystick. You   Michael Hingson ** 31:45 really might want to look into dragon again. It is just so incredibly different than it was years ago. I remember when Dragon Dictate first came out, and all of the challenges of it, but they have done so much work in developing the language models that it's it's a whole lot better than it used to be, and, yeah, you have to train it. But training isn't all that hard nowadays, even by comparison to what it was, and it gives you a lot of flexibility. And I am absolutely certain it would recognize your voice without any difficulty?   Ken Kunken ** 32:22 Well, it's good to hear that they've made those advancements,   Michael Hingson ** 32:26 and it's not nearly as expensive as it used to be, either. Well, that's good   Ken Kunken ** 32:30 to hear. I know when I first tried it, it was incredibly frustrating, yeah, because it wasn't responding well to my voice, and   Michael Hingson ** 32:38 it was like $1,500 as I recall, it was pretty expensive right now, it's maybe two or $300 and there's also a legal version of it and other things like that. Yeah, you really ought to try it. You might find it makes a big difference. It's worth exploring Anyway, okay, but be that as it may, so you you dealt with people's perceptions, and how did you, as you continue to encounter how people behave towards you, how did you keep from allowing that to embitter you or driving you crazy?   Ken Kunken ** 33:15 Well, you know, certainly at work, I needed to go in a jacket and tie, and I found that when you're wearing a jacket and tie, many people treated you differently than when you're just wearing street clothes. So I think that certainly helped that work. But I later became a supervisor in the district attorney's office, and people saw that, you know, not only could they talk with me on an intellectual level, but they saw I was supervising other assistant district attorneys, and I think that convinced a lot of people pretty quickly that I knew what I was doing and that they should treat me no different than they would any other lawyer, Assistant District Attorney.   Michael Hingson ** 33:59 Yeah, well, and it is projecting that confidence in a in a positive way that does make such a big difference,   Ken Kunken ** 34:08 absolutely. And I think when people saw me at work, one of the things that I appreciated was I never even needed to mention again that somebody with a disability could work, and not just at an entry level position, that a very responsible position. I was convinced them, just by showing them, without ever having to mention that somebody with a disability could do this kind of work.   Michael Hingson ** 34:35 I never bring it up unless it comes up, and a lot of times, especially when talking on the phone and so on, it never comes up. I've had times when people eventually met me, and of course, were themselves, somewhat amazed. I'm a blind person and all that I said, nothing's changed here, folks. The reality is that the same guy I was when you were just talking to me on the phone. So let's move forward. Word. And mostly people got it and and dealt with it very well.   Ken Kunken ** 35:08 Well, I used to have a lot of people, when they meet me for the first time, were very surprised to see that I was in a wheelchair. I never would say, Boy, you didn't sound like you were disabled. Yeah, right. And I think they were very surprised when they met me.   Michael Hingson ** 35:23 I've had some people who've said that to me, Well, you didn't sound blind on the telephone. And so depending on how snarky I feel or not, I might say, Well, what does a blind person sound like? And that generally tends to stop them, because the reality is, what does a blind person sound like? It doesn't mean anything at all, and it's really their attitudes that need to change. And I know as a keynote speaker for the last 23 years, just by doing the things that I do, and talking and communicating with people, it is also all about helping to change attitudes, which is a lot of fun.   Ken Kunken ** 36:03 You know, Michael, when I first went back to college, I was approached by a student on campus, and when he asked if I was Ken kunken, and I responded that I was, he asked, aren't you supposed to be in the hospital? Now, you know, I was very tempted to say yes, but I escaped. Please don't tell anyone. But you know, it even took a while to just show people, somebody with a disability does not need to be permanently in a rehab facility or a hospital or staying at home with their families, that there's an awful lot somebody could do and to be seen out in public and show people that you can work, you can go to school, you can do basically what everybody else does once you're given the opportunity.   Michael Hingson ** 36:55 Of course, being spiteful, my response would have been, well, yeah, I should still be in the hospital doing brain surgery, but I decided that I didn't want to be a doctor because I didn't have any patients, so I decided to take a different career, right? Oh, people, yeah, what do you do? And we all face it, but the reality is, and I believe very firmly and have have thought this way for a long time, that like it or not, we're teachers, and we do need to teach people, and we need to take that role on, and it can be difficult sometimes, because you can lose patience, depending on what kind of questions people ask and so on. But the reality is, we are teachers, and our job is to teach, and we can make that a very fun thing to do as we move forward, too.   Ken Kunken ** 37:44 You know, Michael, I found most people really want to be helpful. Yeah, a lot of times they don't know how to be helpful or how to go about it, or what to say or what to do, but most people are really good people that want to help. And you know, the more they come in contact with somebody with a disability, the more comfortable they will feel   Michael Hingson ** 38:04 right, and they'll learn to ask if you want help, and they won't make the assumption, which is, of course, the whole point.   Ken Kunken ** 38:14 You know, Michael, when you leave the job the district attorney's office, you would go through what they call an exit interview, where they would ask you what you thought was the best part of the job, what you thought could be improved. And I'm so happy and proud to say that I was told that a number of assistant district attorneys said that one of the best parts of their job was meeting and getting to know and working with me. And the reason why I wanted to highlight that was I know they weren't talking about me being Ken kunken, but me being somebody with a disability. Because unless they had a close relative with a disability, people rarely came in daily contact with somebody with a disability, and for them, it was often a revelation that they found helped motivate and inspire them to work harder in their job, and they were very appreciative of that,   Michael Hingson ** 39:12 but they also learned that the disability wasn't what defined you. What defined you was you and your personality and what you did not necessarily exactly how you   Ken Kunken ** 39:24 did it, absolutely. And I think it was also a revelation that working with me did not involve additional work for them, right? I was able to carry my own weight, and often was more productive than many of the people I was working with. Right?   Michael Hingson ** 39:42 Well, and I think that's a very crucial point about the whole thing. When you became a lawyer, did that change your view of yourself? I mean, I know it was a kind of an evolution that got you to being a lawyer. But how did becoming a lawyer and when go. Answer, and getting the law degree and then working in a law office. How did that change your perceptions and your attitudes and outlook?   Ken Kunken ** 40:06 You know, it really changed it a great deal, because I had people look at me with a very different eye when they were looking at me. You know, I enjoyed my work as a vocational rehabilitation counselor very much. And I encourage people to do that work. But I felt that there were people that looked at me and thought, you know, he has a disability. Maybe he could only work with other people had disabilities. And I was very proud of the fact that when I became a lawyer, I was working with very few people that had disabilities. Most of them were able bodied. And I wanted to show people that you're not limited in any way with who you're going to work with and what you could do. And I think it's so important for people to keep their perceptions high, their expectations high when they're dealing with individuals, because just because somebody has a disability does not mean they cannot perform and do as much as virtually anybody else on the job   Michael Hingson ** 41:14 well, and you clearly continue to have high expectations of and for you, but also I would suspect that the result was you had high expectations for those around you as well. You helped them shape what they did, and by virtue of the way you functioned, you helped them become better people as well.   Ken Kunken ** 41:38 Well, I certainly tried to and from the feedback that I've gotten from many of the people I worked with, that seemed to be the case, and I'm very proud of that. In fact, I might add Michael that two years ago, the district attorney, now her name is Ann Donnelly, actually started an award in the district attorney's office that's given out annually that they named the Kenneth J kunken award. They named it for me because they wanted to recognize and honor the outstanding Assistant District Attorney each year who displayed the work ethic and the loyalty and devotion to the office as well the person in the wheelchair, right? And I'm very proud of that,   Michael Hingson ** 42:25 but I will bet, and I'm not trying to mitigate it, but I will bet that mostly that award came about because of the things that you did and your work ethic, and that the wheelchair aspect of it was really somewhat second nature. And far down the list,   Ken Kunken ** 42:41 I'm very proud of the fact that that seems to be the case and and one of the aspects of that award was they talked about the effect that I had on my colleagues, and the beneficial effect that that was Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:56 because the reality is, it ultimately comes down to who you are and what you do and and I'm not, and again, I'm not mitigating being in a wheelchair or having any kind of disability, but I really, truly believe ultimately the disability isn't what is not what defines us, it's how we are and what we do and how we behave in society that really will be what helps us make a mark on whatever we're involved with,   Ken Kunken ** 43:28 right? And I think for some, as I say, it was a revelation to see that somebody with a disability had the same needs, wants and desires as everybody else. We were certainly no different with respect to that right.   Michael Hingson ** 43:43 So how long did you work as a lawyer and in the district attorney's office?   Ken Kunken ** 43:49 Well, I worked there full time for more than 33 years, and then I worked there in a part time capacity for an additional eight years. So all told, more than 40 years I worked there, and in fact, I'm one of the longest serving Nassau County assistant district attorneys that they've ever had.   Michael Hingson ** 44:09 Now, why did you go back to part time after 33 years?   Ken Kunken ** 44:15 Well, there are a number of reasons. You know, I I thought that due to some health issues, I wanted to play it safe and make sure that I locked in my pension, because I thought there would be a bigger payout if I retired while I was still working than if I died while I was working on the job. As it turned out, my health issue seemed to resolve itself, but I decided that, you know, retiring, when I did, gave me some more time to spend at home with my family, and I really appreciated being able to do that.   Michael Hingson ** 44:53 That's a very admirable thing. Can't complain about that. So what keeps you going?   Ken Kunken ** 45:00 What keeps me going now is my family. Just so your listeners know, I'm married to the wonderful woman that's actually sitting to my right right now. My name is Anna, and we're actually the parents of triplet sons. We have three incredible boys, Joseph, James and Timothy. They're now 20 years old, and they're currently sophomores at three separate colleges in upstate New York, and they're the light of my life. I couldn't be more proud. And they're what keeps me going these days.   Michael Hingson ** 45:33 What colleges?   Ken Kunken ** 45:36 Well, James is going to the State University of New York at Morrisville, where he's studying renewable energy. Timothy is pursuing a dual major at the SI Newhouse School of Communications in the Maxwell School of Public Policy at Syracuse University. And my son Joseph is actually attending my alma mater, Cornell University, where he's majoring in mechanical engineering.   Michael Hingson ** 46:06 And do they all go watch football games on the weekend? I mean, given the fact that least a couple of those are at schools with good football   Ken Kunken ** 46:13 teams, right? But you know what? They never wanted anything to do with football. But they are all physically active, in great shape, and in fact, all of them have pursued the martial arts, and all three of them are second degree black belts in Taekwondo. And they've all even worked as instructors in the Taekwondo studio here in Long Island.   Michael Hingson ** 46:35 So dad has to be careful, though they'll take you out, huh?   Ken Kunken ** 46:39 You bet. In fact, I've got my own three personal bodyguards when   Michael Hingson ** 46:43 I got right, you can't do better than that. And and Anna, which I'll bet is more formidable than all of them   Ken Kunken ** 46:53 on, is incredible. I mean, she is just a force that is unstoppable. She's incredible.   Michael Hingson ** 47:01 Well, that's cool all the way around, and it's, it's great that you, you have a good neighborhood around you to support you, and I think we all need that. That's that's pretty important to to deal with. So with your job and all that, now that you are retired, I don't know whether you have much stress in your life, but how do you deal with stress? And how does stress affect you and or does it make any difference with a disability?   Ken Kunken ** 47:30 It sure does. It's an interesting question, because before my injury, one of the ways I would deal with stress would be out of the football field, yeah, you know, being physically active, running into an individual, you know, to tackle or block, that was a great way to relieve some of my stress. Once I had my injury, I no longer had that outlet, so I had to find different ways of dealing with it. One of my ways was, you know, trying to sit outside and sit in the garden or by water and, you know, just enjoy nature and try and relax and clear my mind. But now my best stress relievers are my three children. I'm spending time with them, watching all that they're doing. I find that the best way of me to be able to relax and relieve any anxieties that I have?   Michael Hingson ** 48:23 Well, I think there's a lot of value in doing things that keep you calm and focused. I think that is the best way to deal with stress. All too often, we don't think or be introspective about ourselves and our lives, and we don't really step back and get rid of that stress mentally, and that's where it really all comes from. I mean, I know people have physical manifestations of stress and so on, but I would submit that typically, stress is so much more an emotional thing because we haven't learned how to deal with it, and you clearly have   Ken Kunken ** 49:02 it took a while, but yeah, now I have my family to help every step of the way, and that includes relieving the stress that I've under.   Michael Hingson ** 49:10 Yeah, and stress is important to get rid of and not have around. It will help you live a whole lot longer not to have stress I just went through a week ago and op was, you know, an operation to change a heart valve. And people keep asking me, well, Weren't you worried? Weren't you stressed over that? And my answer was, No, I had no control over it really happening to my knowledge, I don't think that I've been a very poor eater, and all of my arteries and everything were good. And so no, I wasn't stressed, even when I first learned that there was an issue and wasn't an emergency room for over 24 hours, mostly sitting around, I chose not to be stressed, and it was a choice. And so I just listened to things around me and became quite entertained at some of the people. People who were in the emergency room with me, but being stressed wasn't going to do anything to help the process at all. So I refuse to get stressed.   Ken Kunken ** 50:09 That's great. And you know, I think this finally retiring has helped me deal with stress as well, because working as an assistant district attorney, there can be a lot of stressful situations in the office, and it's, it's nice to finally be retired and be able to enjoy all of my activities outside of the office.   Michael Hingson ** 50:33 What would you say is probably the most stressful thing that you had to endure as an attorney? You were, I mean, you did this for 40 years, or almost 40 years? So what? Well, actually, yeah, for 40 years. So what would you say is the most stressful thing that you ever had to deal with?   Ken Kunken ** 50:50 Well, I had to rely on, you know, my memory, because it was difficult for me even turning pages of a book or pulling, you know, pieces of paper out of a file, and there was a lot of paperwork that you get to be familiar with, whether they be grand jury testimony or prior witness statements. And I had to rely a lot of my memory and through the help of student interns or paralegals or secretaries, and it was very difficult. And I might add, you know, just to give you one anecdote, one day after I had convicted a defendant of, you know, felony, you know, he was a person with a lot of prior involvement with the criminal justice system, and I was about to go down for his sentencing, he jumped in the elevator with me, and now we're alone in the elevator riding down, and here I am with this person that I convicted of a serious case, and I'm about to recommend that he go to an upstate prison. And he approaches me and says, I have a proposition for you. If you don't send me to jail, I'll agree to work as your personal care attendant for a year, which really struck me as odd. I mean, he must have thought that working for me for a year would be the equivalent of going to prison for a few years. But fortunately, the elevator door opened and I politely turned down his request and went to court, and he was sentenced to two to four years in an upstate prison.   Michael Hingson ** 52:28 Still was creative,   52:30 right?   Michael Hingson ** 52:33 So in all of your life and all the things you've done, what are you most proud   Ken Kunken ** 52:36 of, well, but definitely most proud of my family life? I mean, as I indicated, I'm married now, married for more than 21 years now, my three boys are sophomores in college and doing absolutely great, and make me proud every single day. But I'm proud of the fact that I was able to go back to school, complete my education and work at a job and earn a living where I was able to support myself and able to purchase a house and live now with my wife and children and lead as just about as normal a life as any other family would lead.   Michael Hingson ** 53:18 Now being married to Ana is that your first marriage? It sure is. So there we go. Well, I hear you and but you guys met late, and I'm going to step out on a limb and say it proves something that I've always felt, which is, you'll get married when the right person comes along, especially if you're mature enough to recognize it,   Ken Kunken ** 53:41 you're right. And I was very fortunate that the right person came along in my life, and we have a very happy marriage that I cannot picture life without him right now,   Michael Hingson ** 53:56 my wife and I got married when I was 32 she was 33 but we knew what we wanted in a partner, and when we first met each other, it just sort of clicked right from the beginning. We met in January of 1982 and in July, I asked her to marry me, and we got married in November of 1982 and so we were married for 40 years before she passed. And you know, there are always challenges, but, but you deal with it. So it must have been really an interesting time and an interesting life, suddenly discovering you have three boy triplets.   Ken Kunken ** 54:31 You know, it really was well, you know, when I decided to get married, she told me that she wanted to have my baby, and not just any baby my baby, she said she wanted to see a little pumpkin running around our home. And this really seemed impossible at the time. I had been paralyzed for more than 30 years, and I was already in my 50s, but we looked into various options, including in vitro fertilization and. And we're very excited, excited to learn we could still, I could still father a child. So we pursued it. And you know, through good fortune, good luck, and I guess somebody smiling on us from above, Anna became pregnant with triplets, and I couldn't be happier to have these three wonderful boys in my life.   Michael Hingson ** 55:21 So did becoming a father change you? Or how did you evolve? When that all happened,   Ken Kunken ** 55:26 it sure did. I mean, you know, it went from me being number one in honors life to suddenly being number four after all, three boys got the attention they needed, but it was wonderful for me to be able to help shape their lives and guide them so that they would develop the right character and values and learn the importance of helping others throughout their lives, which they do, and It's I think it's made me a better person, being able to help and guide them. That's cool.   Michael Hingson ** 56:07 Well, the the other thing I would ask is, if you had a chance to go back and talk to a younger Ken, what would you say? What would you teach them so that they would maybe make mistakes that you made?   Ken Kunken ** 56:18 Well, I'd say there's an awful lot you could still do in life, even without your physical movement, and sometimes it takes a lot of patience and a lot of self reflection, but to realize there's an awful lot you can do and that they need to keep their expectations high for themselves as well as for others, and to realize that just because something has not been done before doesn't mean they cannot do it now. They've got to find different ways of approaching problems and handling it and developing some self confidence in themselves and their ability to deal with difficult situations.   Michael Hingson ** 57:03 How did the Americans with Disabilities Act improve all that you did and make your life, especially on the job, better?   Ken Kunken ** 57:12 Well, it, you know, made facilities so much more accessible. When I first went back to college, there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. On my first day back in school, I had to be either pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps just to attend my classes, and as I indicated, in the DAs office, I couldn't even fit through the swinging doorways to get in the courtroom. So it made it tremendously easier to not have to deal with all the physical challenges, but it also made it better for dealing with other people and their attitudes about dealing with people with disabilities, because thanks to the Americans with Disabilities Act, you see more people with disabilities out in public. So people are more used to seeing, dealing, interacting with people, and seeing what they can do and that they're just like everybody else. And as a result, people's attitudes have been changing, and I think that's helped me as well, in many different ways.   Michael Hingson ** 58:20 Cool, well, you have written a book about all of this. Tell me about the book.   Ken Kunken ** 58:27 Okay, I actually started writing a book when I was still in the rehab facility. Not long after I was hurt, a friend of my aunt Lorraine's by the name of Albert meglan visited me in the hospital and thought that one it may help me deal with my depression by talking about what I was going through, but also inform other individuals what a spinal cord injury was like and what's involved with rehabilitation. So he used to visit me in the rehab facility one day a week for a number of weeks for me to start writing a book about my experiences. And then when I went back to school, I started working on it on my own, but I would pick it up and stop and start and stop again over the course of 50 years. And then once I retired, I had more time to sit down with my wife, and I would dictate to her, and she would type it on her laptop computer until we finally finished my memoir, which is called I dream of things that never were, the Ken kunken story, and it's published by a company called 12 tables Press, and they could learn more about my book by going on my website, which is kenkunkin.com and I might add that where I got the title of my book was six months after my injury. I was asked to testify before a United States Health subcommittee chaired by Senate. Senator Edward Kennedy. And eight days after my testimony, Senator Kennedy sent me a glass paperweight in the mail that had an inscription on it that the senator said his late brother Robert Kennedy liked very much. And the inscription read, some men see things as they are and say, Why I dream of things that never were. And say, why not? And that's where I got the title of my book. I dream of things that never were.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:28 Yeah, that's cool. And where can people get the book?   Ken Kunken ** 1:00:35 Well, it's available on Amazon. It's also available at the Cornell bookstore, and if they go on my website, Ken kunken.com spellkin For me, please. It's K U N, as in Nancy. K e n that tells of a number of ways that they could purchase the book, both the hardcover book, it's also available as a Kindle version as an e book, and just recently, we put it out as an audio book as well. And they could learn all about it by going to the website, but certainly it's available on Amazon. If they wanted to order in bulk, they could contact my publisher directly, and he could help them fulfill that type of order. Cool.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:22 That is great. So now the real question is, are there any more books in Ken to come out?   Ken Kunken ** 1:01:28 Well, this book took me 50 years to I know you got to go a little bit faster. So no, I think I wrote down everything that I wanted to convey to people in that book, and now I'm actively just promoting the book like you. I've spoken at a number of different events as a motivational speaker, and you know, the book has given me a way to get m

A manager's success isn't what they do, but how they help. Learn to swap your IC skills for the leadership tools you need to thrive in your new role.

Today Ashley Rudolph is an executive coach working with high-achieving and executives who are at a “crossroad” as they look GREAT on paper, but tend to exhibit fears and have other problems that effect their confidence and performance. Ashley was not always a coach and, in fact, did not view herself as a coach during most of her career. She grew up in the Bronx in New York City. She attributes her high confidence level to the high bar her parents set for her as well as to the environment where she grew up.   After high school Ashley enrolled in Babson College where she quickly had to learn much about business and working as a team. She will tell us that story. After graduation she secured a job, but was layed off and then went back to Babson to secure her Master's degree.   Ashley began working and quickly rose through the corporate ranks of tech companies. She tells us how, while not really tech savy at first, she pushed herself to learn what she needed to know to work as part of a team and then eventually to lead high tech teams.   In 2023 her high tech employment world took a change which she will describe. Bottom line is that she was laid off from her vice presidential position and after pondering what to do she realized that she had actually been coaching her employees for some time and so she began hirering herself out as an executive coach. We will get the benefit of receiving a number of her insights on leadership, confidence building and how to become better mentally with anything life throughs at us. What Ashley says during our episode time makes a great deal of sense and I believe you will gain a lot from what she has to say. You can reach out to Ashley through the contact information in the show notes for this Unstoppable Mindset episode.     About the Guest:   Ashley Rudolph is an executive coach for high-achieving leaders and executives at a crossroads—those who have built success on paper but are ready to step into something greater. Her work is grounded in a bold belief: true transformation isn't about doing more—it's about leading differently.   A former tech executive, she scaled from IC to VP in just five years, leading $75M+ deals and teams of 250+ at high-growth companies. She knows what it takes to succeed in high-stakes environments—not just in execution, but in the deeper, often invisible work of leadership: making bold decisions, navigating uncertainty, and owning your impact.   Her signature methodology, The Three Dimensions of Transformation, helps leaders unlock their full potential by focusing on: mindset, strategy, and elite execution.   Whether guiding clients through reinvention, leadership evolution, or high-stakes career moves, Ashley helps them break free from outdated success metrics and create momentum that lasts. Her insights have been featured in Inc., U.S. News & World Report, The New York Post, Success Magazine, Apartment Therapy, and more. She also writes The Operator's Edge, a newsletter on the unseen shifts that drive real momentum in leadership and career growth. Because true leadership isn't about following a path. It's about defining your own. Ways to connect with Ashley:   My website which has details about me, my programs, and insights about high achievers in the workplace: www.workwithashleyr.com    My newsletter which gets published every single Monday morning with my expert advice for high achievers on how to succeed in the workplace. newsletter.workwithashleyr.com    My LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyrudolph/   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello, everyone, wherever you happen to be today, I am Michael Hingson, and you are listening to or watching or both, unstoppable mindset today, our guest is Ashley Rudolph, who is a coach, and I like something Ashley put in her bio that I thought was really interesting, and that is that Ashley's work is grounded in the belief that true transportation is not really about doing more, but rather it's doing things differently. And I want, I'm going to want to learn about that. I think that's fascinating, and I also think it is correct, but we will, we will definitely get to that and talk about that. Ashley approached me a little while ago and said, I'd like to explore coming on your content, your podcast. And I said, Well, sure, except I told her the same thing that I tell everyone who comes on the podcast, there is one hard and fast rule you got to follow, and that is, you got to have fun, or you can't come on the podcast, so you got to have fun. Ashley, just   Ashley Rudolph ** 02:26 reminding you, I'm ready. I am ready. I'm coming into the podcast today with all of my best jokes, all of my best tricks. Oh, good.   Speaker 1 ** 02:35 Well, we want to hear them all. Well, thank you for being here, and it's a pleasure to have you on unstoppable mindset.   Ashley Rudolph ** 02:42 Yes, thank you so much for having me. I was just really taken by your entire background story, and I took a risk and sent you a message. So thank you so much for having me on the podcast.   Speaker 1 ** 02:55 Well, I have always been of the opinion that everyone has stories to tell, and a lot of people just don't believe they do, but that's because they don't think about it. And so what I tell people who say that to me when we talk about them coming on the podcast, my job is to help bring out the stories. Now, you didn't say that, and I'm not surprised, but still, a lot of people say that. And the reality is, I believe everyone is more unstoppable than they think they are, and that they undersell themselves, they underrate what they are and what they can do,   Ashley Rudolph ** 03:28 yeah, and honestly, I 100% agree with you, and that's why, and maybe I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but you triggered a thought. That's why I spend every single one of my first coaching meetings with a client, having them talk me through either their professional history or their wins from the past year. And in those conversations, my feedback is also is always Hey, you're not giving yourself enough credit for the things that you're doing. Like, these are amazing stories, or like, repeating things back to them a little bit differently than they would have phrased it, but that's 100% accurate. We don't sell ourselves enough,   Speaker 1 ** 04:08 even to ourselves. We don't sell ourselves enough, especially to ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, tell me a little about kind of the early Ashley growing up and all that, and you know where you came from, and all that sort of stuff,   Ashley Rudolph ** 04:23 yeah. So I grew up in New York. I'm from the Bronx. Oh and yeah, yeah. So, so is my   Michael Hingson ** 04:30 mom   Ashley Rudolph ** 04:31 Aqua? Oh my gosh, I had no idea. So I grew up in the Bronx and grew up with my mom. My dad was around too, and, oh, it's interesting, and I'm sure this will make sense, but I grew up going to Catholic schools from first grade to senior year of high school, and something about me, it was like I was always a very self assured. Determined person, and that carried through all the way through my adulthood. And maybe that comes from me being a New Yorker. Maybe that comes from my mom being a an immigrant. She's from the Caribbean. She's from the Bahamas, and she had a very high bar for what success looked like I don't know where it comes from, but yeah, yeah. So that's a little bit about me growing up and kind of who I was   Speaker 1 ** 05:28 as a kid. So now, where are you living? Now?   Ashley Rudolph ** 05:32 I am in New York again, so I moved back to New York in 2020,   Speaker 1 ** 05:38 okay, wow, just in time for the pandemic. Lucky you?   Ashley Rudolph ** 05:43 Yeah, I actually moved back to New York on election day in 2020 so I missed the early pandemic. But yeah, yeah, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 05:53 I was in New York speaking on March 5, and that night, I got back to the hotel, and my flight was supposed to go out at like, 415 in the afternoon, yeah. And I said, when I started hearing that they were talking about closing down the city, I think I better leave earlier. So I was on a 730 flight out the next day. Oh my gosh,   Ashley Rudolph ** 06:18 wow. So you just made it out and that yeah, and at the time, I was living in Boston, and I actually was went on a vacation with a friend, and we flew back the day before they shut down the airports in Boston. So   Speaker 1 ** 06:36 that was lucky. Yeah, did you live in Boston itself or a suburb?   Ashley Rudolph ** 06:42 Yeah, I lived in Boston for two years, I think, yeah, I lived in the city, yeah. I   Speaker 1 ** 06:50 lived in Winthrop for three years, and commuted across Boston to Cambridge every day,   Ashley Rudolph ** 06:55 yeah, oh, my god, yeah. So I worked in Cambridge and I lived in the West End, right above TD Garden.   Speaker 1 ** 07:03 Oh, okay, yeah, I hear that Durgan Park closed in, in near Faneuil Hall.   Ashley Rudolph ** 07:13 Oh, yeah, well, I have to admit, I didn't go there that much. Was living in Boston.   Speaker 1 ** 07:19 It was a fun place. It was a family style thing, and they had tables for four around the outer edges inside the restaurant. But you couldn't sit at one of those unless you had four people. And the serving staff was trained to be a little bit on the snotty side. And I went in fun. Oh, wait. Oh, absolutely. They made it fun. But I went in and the hostess, there were three of us, and my guide dog at the time, Holland, who was a wonderful, cute golden retriever, and she said, Oh, we're going to put you at one of the tables for four. And I said, Well, okay, we appreciate that. And Holland was under the table. This waitress comes up and she says, you're not supposed to be sitting here. This is a table for four, and there are only three of you. And I said, but they told us we could. No Nobody told you you could sit here. You got to go back over to the big tables. And I said, Look, we have a guide dog under the table, and he's really happy. And they told us we could be here because of the dog. And she's, I don't believe that at all. I'm, I'm gonna go check. I don't believe you. She goes away and she comes back a little bit later. No, you're not supposed to sit here. And I said, Look, lift up the tablecloth and look under the table. I'm not going to fall for that. Just do it. She finally did. And there's Holland staring out with these big brown eyes. And she just melted. She goes away and comes back. And one of the things about Durgan Park is they have big plates of prime rib. And she brought this plate of prime ribs somebody hadn't eaten at all, and she said, can I give this to the dog? And so, you know, normally, I would say no, but we were trying to make peace in our time, so I said, Oh, sure. And she and Holland had a great time. So it was fun.   Ashley Rudolph ** 08:59 Oh, and Holland got prime rib. Holland   Speaker 1 ** 09:03 got prime rib. What a treat. And so did and so did the rest of us, but, but we had to pay for ours. But I missed Durgin Park. It was a fun place to go, but I understand that it is closed, and I don't know whether it's oh, well, oh, that's unfortunate, but Quincy market's a wonderful place to go. It's not a lot of interesting things. So you, so you went through high school. So you went through high school in New York, went in in the Bronx tough neighborhood, and then what did you do? So   Ashley Rudolph ** 09:34 I then went to college. So I went to Babson College, which is, well, it's in Massachusetts, it's in Wellesley, and it's actually right next door to Wellesley College. Yeah, yeah. So I went there and I studied business, and that was basically where I learned how to be successful in the workplace, which is kind. Funny, because I found that over the years, a lot of people will say, you know, I went to college, but by the end of it, maybe I didn't know what my transferable skills were, or I studied something that isn't related to what I was doing or what I did as a professional, and I always felt the opposite, like in freshman year at Babson, they gave us $3,000 to, like, start a company as a as a students. So all of us just had to start this company. We had our business ideas. There was a CEO, a CMO, a CFO. We had like rules assigned. And that was my first experience of what a workplace could be like, although it was with 18 year olds, so maybe not totally reflective, but we had performance reviews, we had a head of HR, we had like, company meetings, so we were doing things within a framework, and they all kind of translated into the workplace, different players. So Babson basically kind of turned me into the business person that I am   Speaker 1 ** 11:09 today. Now, did each person get $3,000 and they started their own company?   Ashley Rudolph ** 11:14 Oh, no. So there were, there were maybe 30 of us, and we started a company with that with $3,000 Okay? Exactly with that investment, it was managed quite tightly. There's not a lot that you can do with $3,000 right? So you can probably guess that a lot of the businesses turned out to be the same. So there was always a T Shirt Company or a company the when the LIVESTRONG wristbands were popular, then we were like, oh, let's customize these wristbands. So yeah, yeah. The the company ideas basically ended up being the same, because there's not that much that you could do with that, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 11:56 yeah, yeah. So much you can do unless you start making a bunch of money,   Ashley Rudolph ** 12:00 yeah, yeah, yeah. And in today's landscape, I guess there's more that you can do with digital products and stuff like that. But yeah, yeah, we, we had to do physical so we were pretty limited, yeah, well, that's   Speaker 1 ** 12:13 okay, but still, if the company is successful, and was it successful? Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 12:19 we, did turn a profit, and then for all of the businesses that did turn a profit, you had to donate the profits to a local charity. So we did. We donated ours to a local organization. We threw an event in partnership with the organization. It was just, it was nice. So, yeah, oh,   Speaker 1 ** 12:43 cool. So, how, how long did the company last? Essentially, was it all four years?   Ashley Rudolph ** 12:50 It was the first   Speaker 2 ** 12:52 year, just the first year, okay, yeah, okay, yeah, that's still, that's pretty cool.   Ashley Rudolph ** 12:58 Yeah, it is. I have to say that I learned a lot,   Speaker 1 ** 13:02 yeah, well, you're you're kind of forced to or you don't succeed. So I was going to ask you why you felt that you learned how to be successful. But now it's pretty clear, yeah, yeah, yeah.   Ashley Rudolph ** 13:13 So we started there in freshman year, and then sophomore, junior and senior year was kind of more of a deep dive on specific skills. So that you take our accounting classes, finance marketing, if you were into retail, there was like a retail management class at the core classes. So we had, you know, liberal arts courses, so art history, yeah, philosophy, things like that. But yeah, everything was mostly centered around business and cool, yeah, yeah. Well, that's   Speaker 1 ** 13:47 pretty exciting. Did you did you go do any graduate work anywhere?   Ashley Rudolph ** 13:52 It's funny, yes, I did. So I graduated from Babson, and my first job was in a creative agency, and I was doing media buying, and at the time it was 2008 and we were buying ads in school newspapers, which was dying like it was pretty much On on its last leg, and I just had this thought when I was doing it, and that I wasn't inspired by the work, because it wasn't growing, it was going away. And it was clear, yeah, and that. And actually my first job, I got laid off because it was a dying industry, and the team needed to be smaller, and at that point, it's my first job. So it was very devastating to me. I had never gone through anything like that before. So then I decided to go back to school. So I did my masters. I actually. Went back to Babson, but in an international program. So I spent my first semester in France, my second semester in China, and then my final semester at Babson. Ah,   Speaker 1 ** 15:13 so why was the newspaper industry going away? Just because everything was going online?   Ashley Rudolph ** 15:18 Exactly, yeah, things were shifting more digital. Yeah, it's exactly   Speaker 1 ** 15:23 that, so they didn't need as many people selling and doing other things as they did before. Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 15:28 yeah, exactly. Or companies were figuring out different ways to reach college students that wasn't dependent on getting in the school newspaper.   15:39 Yeah? Yeah, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 15:42 yeah. So you got your master's degree from Babson, and then what did you   Ashley Rudolph ** 15:47 do? I got my master's degree from Babson, and I'll fast forward a little bit, because what's funny is that after I graduated, I still didn't quite know what I wanted to do, but I figured it out. I ended up going back into marketing. But if you remember, what I described was, in that first job, I wasn't connected to the mission. I wasn't inspired by where the industry was going. So I ended up pivoting into nonprofits. And my first job after graduating from my masters was running digital media, so not physical media, so I shifted into social media and online marketing. Had a nonprofit, right? So I was connected to the mission. I felt like the work that I was doing was for a good cause, and it was an industry that was new and that was growing, and that was ever changing and exciting. So I did that for about three years, so first at a nonprofit, and then at an a charter school network that was in New York and New Jersey at the time, but has since expanded far beyond that. So, yeah, I went into mission driven work, and I went into digital marketing and digital media. And I think what I took away from that chapter of my career was that I want to be in an industry that is ever evolving. So, yeah, so after my experience in the nonprofit and education space, that's when I jumped into tech. So I jumped into tech after that, and spent a decade in the tech industry. And obviously, tech is ever changing. I had access to so many different opportunities. I grew really fast. I started at the first company, the first tech company that I worked for. I was a program manager, and five years later I was a vice president, right? So, like, I was able to seize opportunities and work really hard and get to the level that I wanted to get to I was very ambitious, so I think tech just kind of gave me everything I wanted. Career wise, how   Speaker 1 ** 18:09 did you progress so fast to go from being a program manager to the level of Vice President in what generally would be defined as a pretty short time? Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 18:20 yeah, yeah. So some of it was hard work, and I think the other factor was luck, and the other factor was going after whatever it was that was in front of me. So taking risks. So I would say, with the hard work part, I worked a lot. See when I first, when I started that job, I was actually a Program Manager for Back End Web Development, which was Ruby on Rails, coding a coding language. And then I was also a program manager for data science. I had no experience in either I was not technical. I did not have the technical skills or technical aptitude to do this, but I did have the desire to learn. So my first month at that job, I worked seven days a week. I went to workshops on the weekend. I did coding workshops, I read through all of the documentation. I sat in all of the programs that I was managing. I just dug deep. And I think that first year of immersing myself in everything kind of set the foundation for me.   Speaker 1 ** 19:38 So you made yourself pretty technical by the time it was all said and done,   Ashley Rudolph ** 19:42 yeah, yes, yes, and not on the level of any of my instructors or the students that actually took the programs. But I cared about learning, and I cared about having a certain level of fluency in order to I had to hire instructors for the program so I couldn't fumble my. Words, right? So, yeah, yeah. So I taught myself, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 20:05 you learned. You learned enough. You You weren't trying to be the most technical person, but you learned enough to be able to interact with people and hold your own. Yeah, which, which is the important thing, I think. And for me, I know at one point, I had a job that was phased out when Xerox bought the company and I couldn't find another job. And it wasn't because of a lack of trying, and it wasn't because I didn't have the skills, but rather, as societal norms typically go, the belief is blind people can't work, as opposed to what we really can and can't do. So I eventually started my own company selling computer aided design systems, and for me, as a blind person, of course, I'm not going to sit in front of a CAD computer or even a PC based CAD system, which is what we sold. So I had to learn, however, all about how to operate the system. Learn about PCs. So I learned how to how to build PCs. I learned about CAD so I could actually walk someone through the process of drawing without actually having to do it, so I understand what, exactly what you're saying. Yeah, and it was important to do that. Yeah. Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 21:21 it was important, and no one told me to do that, right? And I'm sure that no one told you to do that too, but there was just something in me that knew that I was excited about this work, or I wanted opportunities, and this was the best way that I knew how to go after it. Yeah, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 21:43 Well, and, and it is the way you still have you do have to learn enough to be able to hold your own, but I Yeah, but I think it's also important in learning that that you're also not trying to threaten anyone else. You're just trying to be able to communicate with them   Ashley Rudolph ** 22:00 exactly, exactly, yes,   Speaker 1 ** 22:05 yeah. All too often, people view others as threats when they really shouldn't. But you know,   Speaker 2 ** 22:12 that's Yeah, another story gonna do Yeah, right, right.   Speaker 1 ** 22:16 Well, so for within five years, you became a vice president. What was the tech that y'all were really developing?   Ashley Rudolph ** 22:22 Yeah, great question. So what's interesting about this is that it wasn't so the first company I worked for wasn't a tech company, and that they were building tech it's actually a coding boot camp. So they were teaching people either how to code or how to become a UX designer, or how to become a product manager. So that was the product after a while. And I think long after I left the company, they did develop their own tech. So they developed an online an LMS learning management system, and there was digital content. But when I started, it was really about the boot camp era and teaching people how to code, because there were all these engineering jobs and web development jobs that were available and not enough, not enough talent, not   Speaker 2 ** 23:13 enough talent to go around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.   Ashley Rudolph ** 23:17 Which is when you think about today's market and where we're, where we are, that was only 10 years ago, and it's a completely different story. Now, the market is flooded with too many web developers. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 23:29 it is, but I would say, from my standpoint of seeing what they produce in terms of making web content accessible, not nearly enough of them know how to do that, which is another story,   Ashley Rudolph ** 23:41 yeah, yeah, yeah, which is so interesting. And yeah, unacceptable, unfortunate, because there were always teams that were in charge of accessibility at the companies that I worked for, but then having someone be in charge of it, and then properly resourcing the accessibility team is a whole other story. And I think so many companies view it as just oh yeah, I checked the box. My website is accessible. But did you really build with your end users in mind, and the answer is probably no,   Speaker 1 ** 24:23 probably not, yeah, and all too often that ended up being the case. Well, so what did you do after you became vice president?   Ashley Rudolph ** 24:32 Yeah, so that was tough. You said it, and you said, I climbed really fast. And that's true, I did, and because I climbed fast, there were a lot of lessons to learn. So after I became vice president, I really had to own that leadership seat, or that executive leadership seat, and recognize that what had got me there. Here is was not what was going to keep me there. So the thing that I did after I became a vice president was really understanding how to be an effective executive. So that means really understanding the business side, which I already knew I had been doing that I've been thinking about that since college, so that wasn't something that I was concerned about, but the biggest thing was forming executive level relationships and really understanding how to form allies, and understanding that at that level, it's less of I have the right answer, and listen to me, because I'm a vice president and more of a okay. How am I influencing the people around me to listen to my idea, accept my idea, champion and support my idea. And it's not enough to just have something that's right on paper.   Speaker 1 ** 26:06 The others the other side of that, of course, could be that maybe you have an idea that may or may not be the right idea, which also means you need to learn to listen,   Ashley Rudolph ** 26:13 yes, exactly, exactly, and that was absolutely the other side of it. So me coming into things and being like, I understand what needs to happen, and not having all the context either way, right? So, yeah, yeah, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 26:31 but you must have done pretty well at doing all that.   Ashley Rudolph ** 26:34 I figured it out eventually. Yes, I did figure it out eventually, and it wasn't easy, but I was able to grow a team and scale a team, and I was able to move from maybe the business side of running operations to the product and technology side of it, so being able to see two different sides of the coin. And yeah, it did. It did work. Well, I was able to create my own department, which was a product project management office that oversaw all of the work of the entire product and design and technology teams, 250 people. I I'm not sure that I would have thought I was capable of doing something like that, and building something from the ground up, and hiring a team of, I think, 15 people, and leading that department. And, yeah, yeah, and it was great. I did learn a lot. And then 2023 happened. And that was the major turning point in Tech where I think the dominant story shifted from, or at least in education technology, which I think you know something a lot about, but the dominant story shifted from this is great. This is growing. Distance Learning is fueling growth. There's so much opportunity here to it's too big. We need to, you know, do layoffs. We need to find a way to right size the business. There's actually not a lot of growth happening. So 2023 happened, and I ended up getting laid off with my entire department that I built. And that was such a huge lesson, a huge leadership lesson for me, for sure. So I'll pause so that I'm not not talking at you, but hanger, yeah, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 28:46 well, so you got laid off. I've been there. I've had that happen. And, yeah, it isn't fun, but it's like anything else. You may not have been able to control it happening, but no, you are the one who has to deal with it. So you may not have control over it happening, but you always have control over how you deal with what happened.   Ashley Rudolph ** 29:09 Yes, yes,   29:11 yes. And what did you do?   Ashley Rudolph ** 29:14 And that's exactly what was so different about this time. So I will say I had two months notice. I had an amazing leader, such a technology officer. When the decision was made, he said, Okay, we can make this decision, but I have to tell Ashley immediately. So he told me, and it wasn't surprising, right? Because I saw how the business what direction the business was going in. So I can't say I was shocked, but the big question that I had was, Oh, my God, what am I going to do about my team? And I felt such immense responsibility because I had hired many of them I came to. Care about them and their careers and their livelihoods, and, yeah, I just felt responsible for it. So you said it, you said it beautifully, and that it was about what I decided to do. So from that moment, I shifted my focus, maybe, maybe to my own detriment, but whatever, I came out on the upside, but I shifted my focus to my team, and I thought the best thing that I could do in that moment was preparing them for their next chapters without going directly to the team and damaging the trust of the Chief Technology Officer and saying, in two months, we're all going to get laid off. That's also not reflective of the type of leader I wanted to be. So I figured out that, because we were a project management office and because there wasn't a lot of new work at the company, we had downtime. So I implemented a meeting on the calendar, which was a project review, and every single week, someone on my team had the opportunity to present their projects and talk about what they learned, what was challenging for them, and what their successes were, right, some combination of those things, and they all did it, and that was my way of helping to start prepare them for the interview process, because now you know your work, you know what your impact was, and you've gotten my feedback as someone who's a leader, who knows what hiring managers are looking for, you got my feedback on the best ways to present yourself, and they were able to ask questions. There were some people who approached me or the director on my team privately and asked us to review their resumes, because they kind of saw the writings on the wall without me ever having to say it, and I did. And what ended up happening is, at that two month mark, or whenever, when the layoffs did happen, no one on my team was shocked, and there were people who actually within a month after the layoff happened, they had found new jobs because they had that time to prepare and felt confident in their job search and the stories that they were telling about themselves. So I all that to say that I did exactly that. I chose the type of leader that I wanted to be, and the thing that felt important to me was preparing my team for their next chapter,   Michael Hingson ** 32:32 which I would say is the right thing to do,   Ashley Rudolph ** 32:34 yeah, yes, exactly, because it   Speaker 1 ** 32:37 isn't, no matter what a lot of people might think, it isn't about you, it's about the team. It's about you and the rest of the team, because you're all a team,   Ashley Rudolph ** 32:45 yeah? Except Yes, yes. And I very much viewed my team as an extension of myself, an extension of them. I you know, it wasn't just about them doing a job for me, quote, unquote, like that's not the type of leader that I am. We are a team,   Speaker 1 ** 33:04 right? So meanwhile, while you were doing that and helping the team, what were you also doing for you? And   Ashley Rudolph ** 33:12 that's why I said to my detriment, I didn't do a lot of thought. I put no thought into what I wanted to do. Okay? At all. I just And you know what? It's not to my detriment. I think what I needed at that time was a distraction, and this was a really good distraction for me, from sorting through what I wanted to do next, but also in navigating that with my team and supporting them through that, I think the answer became very clear once I was ready to ask my question, I just coached my team. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 33:51 And so you sort of, as you would say, pivoted to being a coach,   Ashley Rudolph ** 33:57 yes, yes. And I want to be clear that this wasn't a decision that was like, you know, that I just fell into coaching, you know, I I made the decision to so I took some time to think about what were the pieces of my work that I really loved when I was a VP at multi, you know, at multiple companies, and the answer was clear, and that I really loved coaching and helping people become better at their work, and I really loved mentorship. And those were the parts of the work that if I could just do that all day, that's what I would want to do. And I was like, Well, I have the I can make a decision to do that all day, every day now, because I'm not doing anything, I just got laid off. So I can choose to do this work. So that's exactly how I ended up being a coach.   Speaker 1 ** 34:58 Well, so you. Ever originally planned on being a coach. So was it that work with your team that really was the sort of pivotal decision for you, that although you never thought you were going to be a coach, that led you to coaching, or was there something else that really helped move you there? There was something else. Okay, yeah, more to the story.   Ashley Rudolph ** 35:21 There is always you're peeling all the layers so, so initially, what I thought I would do, because I was an operations person, I was like, I'll just be an operations consultant. I'll go out on my own, and people will hire me to be their ops person. So let me, you know, run with that as an idea. And I started having conversations with former colleagues. And what was funny in that so many of their conversations were kind of like, oh yeah, I want to support you. And that sounds nice. I understand why you would want to be an operations consultant. But there's something more interesting about you being a coach. Or I want to hire you to be a coach for my team. Or, Hey, you did really amazing things in your career. You should help other people do those things. And that was the theme that people kept telling me, so I finally decided, decided to listen. That's how I landed on coaching. And instead of it being like, oh my god, I'm trying to sell the value of myself as an operations consultant, once I just owned the coach title, people just started saying, okay, yep, Sign me up. Or I'll refer you to someone who needs a coach right now. Or, hey, you coach just one person on my team, and they're great. Here's more. So it just became easy, and it became less of a I'm trying to sell people, and I'm trying to, like, convince them that they need me in this role, it was just easy.   Speaker 1 ** 37:04 So do you think you talked about being ambitious when you were in college and starting that business at Babson and so on? Do you think you've always continued to try to be, if you will, ambitious, or did you sort of shift in terms of mindsets over time?   Ashley Rudolph ** 37:22 Yeah, that's a really good question. I do think I have always been ambitious, and when I visited my mom last year or the year before last for Thanksgiving, I found a fake report card that I wrote myself, that I wrote for myself in fourth grade. And there was a prompt that said, what would you want your teacher to write on your report card at the end of this year? And I wrote, Ashley is excelling at excellence. Well, there you go, fourth grade. So I think it's always been there.   Speaker 1 ** 38:02 So is it, but is it ambition? Is it ambition, or is it being industrious and being being confident? You know?   Ashley Rudolph ** 38:10 Yeah, yeah. Oh, that is such a good question, right? So there was a version of me when I was in the corporate world where I would have just said, yeah, it's ambition, right? Because I'm always motivated to, you know, go after the next level, and that's what's driving me. And now, now that you put that question out there, it is, it is that confidence, because I'm not chasing a thing or the next level right now, in this phase, I'm chasing quote, unquote impact like the thing that drives me is helping people, helping people probably achieve things for themselves that They also didn't think that they could in their careers, and I'm just helping them get there, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 39:06 and that's why I asked the question, because ambition, the way you normally would think of it, yeah, can be construed as being negative, but clearly what you're doing is is different than that. Yeah, you know, at this at the same time for you, now that you're coaching and so on, and you shifted to doing something different, yeah, did you have to let something go to allow you to be open to deciding to be a coach? Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 39:38 and the thing that I had to let go was exactly what you just pointed out. So you are very intuitive. The thing I had to let go was that the traditional construct of what success looks like. So it looks like, okay, I'm a VP, so I next need to be an SVP. And then after that I need to be at the sea level. And no, and I guess there could have always been questions about, was that what I really wanted, or was it just the next level that I was after? Yeah, yeah. And there was that, I think it was just the next level for quite some time, but now, like I said, the thing that I let go of was that and wanting to grasp for what the next level is. And now for me, it looks like, okay, well, I only have so many hours in the day, so I can't coach unlimited people, but I still want to impact many people. So what does that mean? Okay, well, I'm writing a newsletter, and I put out a newsletter every week with my thoughts, and that can reach many more people than I can one to one or podcast. I'm talking to you on this podcast, and maybe me sharing more of my story will inspire someone else, or I'll learn from you and your community, Michael, but yeah, I think the thing, the thing that determines what success looks like for me is my ability to impact   Speaker 1 ** 41:14 and and the result of that is what happens with the people that you're working with, and so you, you do get feedback because of that,   Ashley Rudolph ** 41:25 yes, yes, I do get, I get lots of feedback, and it is, it's transformational feedback. And I think one of the things that I love, and I do this for every client that I work with, is on day one, we established a baseline, which I don't necessarily have to always say that to them like we're establishing the baseline, it's understood. And then in our last session, I put a presentation together, and I talked to them about where they were when we started, and what they wanted for themselves, and over the course of us coaching together, what they were able to accomplish, so what their wins were, and then where they land, and just me taking them on that journey every single or when they work with me, is eye opening, because they don't even see the change as it's happening. And I'm like, Hey, you did this. You're not that person that you walked into this room as on day one, and maybe by the end, you have a new job, or you got promoted, or you feel more confident and assured in your role. But whatever it is, you've changed, and you should be proud of yourself for that.   Speaker 1 ** 42:43 Yeah, yeah. And it's, I am sure, pretty cool when you get to point that out to people and they realize it, they realize how far they've come.   Ashley Rudolph ** 42:55 Yeah, yeah, it is. It's, it's really awesome to be able to share that with people and to also be on the journey with them, and when they think that maybe they're not ready to do something just gently reminding them that they are. And sometimes I think about what, you know, what managers have done for me, because I've, I had the privilege of working with really great managers some in my career, and yeah, they did that to me, and that that's how I was able to accomplish the things that I did. So yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 43:34 well, it's great that you're able to carry those lessons forward and help other people. That's pretty cool.   Ashley Rudolph ** 43:38 Yeah, yeah. And honestly, I hope that my clients can do the same. So if there are things that they learn in coaching, any frameworks or things like that, if they're able to help people, then that's great. And the cycle continues, you know? So, yeah, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 43:57 You know, a question that comes to mind is that when we talk about leadership, there are certainly times that leaders face uncertainty, especially when there are transitions going on and you've experienced a lot of transitions. What would you say is the unconventional truth about leadership in times of change and transition?   Ashley Rudolph ** 44:20 Yeah, yeah. So I think the thing that I see the most is that in times of transition, especially if it's a transition that maybe you have no control over, right? You're not choosing to leave your job, for example, the the inclination is to over control, right, and try to assert control over the situation in any way that you can, and in more cases than not, that backfires to some degree. So the thing that I try to focus on with my clients is getting to a point where you accept the fact that what is happening is happening. I'm kind of like my layoff, right? I didn't fight the decision or try to change the decision. I just had to accept it for what it was. And then the thing that we focus on is now that we know the thing is happening, whatever the transition or change is, it doesn't have to be as extreme as a layoff, but now that we know that it's happening, what can you control and what can you focus on? And that's what we need to spend our time on. And it can be anything, you know, sometimes people are put on performance improvement plan, and you kind of just if, if this is a situation where you're like, Oh yeah, I could see where this came from, and I wish that I was not in this situation. Okay, well, you kind of have to accept that you are, and what can you do about it now, it's really, yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 45:58 what's the hardest lesson you've learned about leadership and being a leader, not just being an executive, but coaching people.   Ashley Rudolph ** 46:10 Yeah, and I get this all the time as a coach too. It's it's in me, but the lesson that I've learned is I don't have to know everything. That's   Michael Hingson ** 46:21 a hard lesson. To learn, isn't   Ashley Rudolph ** 46:25 it? It is, especially when you feel like as a leader, like people are relying on you, or you think they are, they're relying on you to know the answers or to know what to do next, or as a coach, they're relying on you to ask the right questions or to guide them in the right direction, right? And sometimes you just don't know, and that's okay, and it's also okay to say that. And I was just going to say that, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. It took me a long time to get comfortable with that, but now, now I am more comfortable with it, for sure. Do you feel like you struggled with that too? Or Yeah?   Speaker 1 ** 47:06 Well, I have, but I was blessed early on, when I was a student teacher in getting my secondary teaching credential, I was a student teacher in an algebra one class in high school, and one of the students came in one day, and he asked a question in the course of the day, and it should have been a question I knew the answer to, but I didn't. But when I when I realized I didn't, I also, and I guess this is my makeup, thought to myself, but I can't blow smoke about it, so I just said, you know, I don't know the answer, but I'm going to look it up and I will bring you the answer tomorrow. Is that okay? And he said, Yeah. And my master teacher after class cornered me, and he said, That was absolutely the best thing you could do, because if you try to psych out these kids and fake them out, they're going to see through you, and you're never going to get their trust. Yeah, and of course, he was absolutely right. So I did the right thing, but I also learned the value of doing the right thing. And Mr. Redman, my master teacher, certainly put it in perspective. And I think that's so important. We don't have to necessarily have all the right answers. And even if we do have the right answer, the question is, Is it our job to just say the right answer or try to guide people to get to the right answer?   Ashley Rudolph ** 48:41 Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's another leadership lesson, right? It's and it's so much more powerful when people do get to the answers themselves, yeah. And I think that kind of helps with them being less dependent on coming to you for the answers moving forward, right? If they're able to go on that path of discovery   Speaker 1 ** 49:04 well, and if they are able to do that and you encouraged it, they're going to sense it, and when they get the right answer, they're going to be as high as a kite, and they're going to come and tell you that they did it. So, yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 49:15 exactly. Yeah, yeah. What a good feeling.   Speaker 1 ** 49:19 Yeah, it is, what do you do? Or what are your thoughts about somebody who just comes to you and says, I'm stuck?   Ashley Rudolph ** 49:27 Ooh, that happens all the time. Michael, it happens all the time. And I'll tell you, there's two things. So if someone says I'm stuck, they either don't have the confidence to pursue the thing that they know they want to do, but they're just saying they're stuck, which is it is being stuck, right? If you can't take action, then you're stuck. But sometimes they frame that as I don't know where what I want to do or where I want to go, and then I ask. Couple of questions, and it's like, oh, well, you actually do know what you want to do and where you want to go. You just don't have the confidence yet to pursue that path. So part of the time, it's a confidence issue, or the other time, the thing that they're grappling with, or the other cases, what they're grappling with is, I haven't connected with like my values or the things that motivate me or my strengths even right? So maybe they're the ambitious person who was compelled to just chase the next level and the next level and the next level, but now they're asking, Is this really important to me, or do I really want this? As I spoke to another coach, and she ended up leaving what she thought was a dream job at Google, because every day she was kind of like, I still want to be here, and it wasn't her dream job, and she left to become a coach. So it's either one of those two things, most times, for the clients that I work with, and I ask a lot of questions, so I get to the answers, or I help them get to the answers by asking them the right questions. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 51:14 and that's the issue. And sometimes you may not know the right question right off the bat, but by the same token, you can search for it by asking other questions.   Ashley Rudolph ** 51:23 Exactly, exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, that's it.   Speaker 1 ** 51:27 So what is, what is a transformation of a client that you experienced and kind of what really shifted, that changed everything to them, something that just really gave you chills, and was an AHA kind of thing. Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 51:44 there are. There's so many one, okay, so one that I want to share is and basically the client went from, this isn't the job for me. I don't like the role I'm in. I don't think I can be successful, and I don't think my work is valued here. And I would say, over the course of eight months, she went from that to getting one of few perfect performance reviews in the company like it's a company that doesn't give a perfect performance review, right? So, right, going from that and being like, I need to find a new job. I've got to get out to I am excelling at this job, and it wasn't just anyone that gave her the perfect performance review. It was one of the co founders of the company. So like, top person is saying, Yeah, this is great. You're doing amazing work. There is value, and I think you're incredible. So in that transformation, the thing that she had to connect to, or reconnect to, was her values and understanding what are the things that she enjoys about her work and what are the things that she really didn't enjoy, and understanding the why behind that, and then the other two things for her, or developing her confidence, which sounds very fluffy, because it's like, How do you help someone do that? And I help people do that by helping them feel really good about their work product. So with her, with her, what we ended up doing was focusing on helping her prepare for some presentations. Me giving her feedback on her decks, or her talking to me about how she wanted to prepare for a meeting and the points that she wanted to make, and me helping her, you know, craft really compelling talking points, and having that feedback loop with me of being like, Okay, here's how the meeting went, and this was the feedback I got, and also being like, Oh, wow, the meeting went really well. And like feeling her confidence build over time by helping her get better at her work, and gradually over time, it just built to that amazing end point for her. But that's that's a transformation for me that will always stick out, because I just remember that first meeting and me just being like, okay, you know this, this might end up being a journey where we help her find a role that is better suited for her. And, you know, just kind of thinking about that, and it just didn't end up being that at all.   Speaker 1 ** 54:35 Well, the other thing that, in one way or another, probably plays into some of that is the people her bosses, the people who she worked for, probably sensed that something was going on, yeah, and she had to be honest enough to to deal with that. But as she progressed, they had to sense the improvement, and that. Had to help a lot.   Ashley Rudolph ** 55:01 Yes, for sure. And I think maybe there is confusion from her boss and in him thinking that she was ready to take on the work that he knew that she could take on, but she didn't quite feel ready yet. Yeah, so there was something she had to sort through, and she finally, not finally, that wasn't a lot of time at all, but she got there, and yeah, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 55:26 And I'll bet they were better. I'll bet they were better communicators with each other by the time it was all said and done, too   Ashley Rudolph ** 55:31 Exactly, yes, yeah, yeah. They developed a shorthand, you know? And, yeah, yep.   Speaker 1 ** 55:39 So there are a lot of leaders who look great on paper, but when it really comes down to it, they just aren't really doing all that they ought to be doing. They feel restless or whatever. What's the real reason that they need to deal with to find momentum and move forward?   Ashley Rudolph ** 55:58 Yeah, so I'm going to take a I'm going to take a different approach to answering this question. And because of the people that I work with, again, they're high achievers. Yeah, right. And sometimes I see that what happens is maybe people have described them as restless, or people have said, Why aren't you happy? You have this amazing career, you should be happy. And I think, like that projection, they end up taking that on and feeling guilty about the fact that they want more. But at the core of it, when I talk to them or get to the level of, you know, Hey, what is happening here? What's causing this sense of restlessness? Surprisingly, the answer is, yeah, I have this great job or this great title, but I feel like I could be doing so much more. So it's an impact. It's an impact thing that is driving the people that I work with. So what we end up doing is trying to figure out, to some degree, like I have no control over what happens at work, so I don't want to pretend that I do, but if it is an impact question, then what we get to the core of is, okay, well, how do you increase your impact? And that's what I work with them on?   Speaker 1 ** 57:24 Well, here's a question. So I have been in sales for a long time, and of course, as far as I'm concerned, I still am being a public speaker. I sell more life and philosophy than anything else. But one thing a lot of people face is rejection. A lot that was redundant, but a lot of people face rejection. How do you get people to understand that rejection isn't a bad thing, and that it actually is a sign of success more often than not? And I agree with it. And you had given me this question, I think it's a great question and relevant to answer.   Ashley Rudolph ** 57:58 Yeah, so I just try to flip the thinking. So I make it less about the person rejecting you, or you receiving a rejection. And to me, if you get rejected, it's a signal that you try, and that's what we focus on, right? So if you're not getting rejected and you're in the same place that you were, it's probably an indication that you're not trying, or you're not taking big enough swings, or you're not pushing yourself. So, yeah, I just try to help my clients. You know, think about the fact that, hey, you got rejected because you tried and you put yourself out there, and that's great. And then the other thing I like to think about with rejection is really just like rejection is someone placing a bet, and if you know about bets, you know that they're not 100% right, and sometimes the person just decided they weren't going to place their bet on you. And it's not that you're not capable, or it's not that it wasn't a great idea, maybe it wasn't the right time, maybe whatever, you don't know what the why is, but it's just a bet, and someone could take a different bet, and it can be on you, or you can bet on yourself even, right? So once you start to think about rejection as just the choice that someone made on a day, and that person isn't all people, and they're certainly not representative of, you know, the person who could decide to take a chance on you and your idea or your initiative, then I think the rejection stings a lot less.   Speaker 1 ** 59:31 Yeah, one of the expressions I've heard regularly is the selling really begins. And I and I think whether it's selling a product or whatever you're doing, but the selling really begins when the objections begin or the rejection. Yeah, and I think there's, there's so much truth to that one of the things, one of the things that I used to do when I was selling products, is I would play a game with myself. Is this person. Going to give me a new objection or a new reason for rejection that I haven't heard before, and I always loved it when somebody came up with something that truly I hadn't heard before, and that was absolutely relevant to bring up, because then it's my job to go off and deal with that, but it was fun to put my own mindset in that sort of framework, because it's all about it's it's not me, unless I really am screwing up, it's other things. And no matter whether it's me screwing up or not, it's my job to figure out how to deal with whatever the other person has on their mind. Yeah, and when the new things come up, those are so much fun to deal with. And I even praised people, you know, I've never heard that one before. That's really good. Let's talk about it.   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:00:50 So great, yeah, yeah. They were probably like, oh, okay, wow. Well, yeah, let's talk about it, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 1:01:00 But I didn't show fear, and didn't need to, because I I went into a learning mode. I want to learn what's on their mind and what's going on,   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:01:09 yeah, and that's what it's about. It's about understanding what's important to the other person, or understanding their concerns. And I think if you come at it like you did, from a place of really wanting to understand them and find common ground, then sometimes you can even shift the rejection right often.   Speaker 1 ** 1:01:27 If you do it right often you can. Yeah, you can. You can reverse it, because most rejections and objections are really based on perception and not necessarily reality   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:01:41 at all? Yes, exactly yes, yes, which is   Speaker 1 ** 1:01:45 important? Well, if you could go back and talk to a younger version of yourself, what moment would you choose and who? What would you say that they should learn? Oh,   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:01:54 this is so this is such a   Speaker 1 ** 1:01:57 great fun question. Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:02:03 if I could go back, I would probably tell myself that you you don't necessarily have to run away to find the things that you're looking for in your career, right? And I think in life too. Sometimes you think, Oh, I just have to move to a different city, or I just have to buy a new outfit, or I just have to, I have to, I have to, I have to change this thing. And sometimes you just don't have to. Sometimes you can have a conversation about thing that you want or the thing that you're not getting. So if this is a boss right, talking about the thing that you want or that you're not getting, and coming up with a solution together, and I think for quite some time, I was too afraid to do that, and if I wasn't getting what I needed or what I wanted, I just thought the best thing to do was to find it elsewhere, and I would just go back and tell myself to ask for what I wanted first, and then get the information and then leave if I had to. But leaving doesn't have to be the default.   Speaker 1 ** 1:03:21 Yeah. Cool. Well, Ashley, this has been a lot of fun. We've been doing this an hour. Can you believe   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:03:29 it? We have, we have the time flew by. Fun. Yeah, I could have kept going.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:36 Well, then we'll just have to do another one. Yeah,   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:03:39 we do. It, I will always come back. You are amazing. Michael,   Speaker 1 ** 1:03:43 well, this has been fun, and maybe one of the things that you could do to help spread the word about what you do and so on is do your own podcast.   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:03:50 Yes, something else to think about, yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. And then if I do then I will invite you on there. I'd   Speaker 1 ** 1:04:00 love it, I'll come absolutely well. I want to thank you again, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching today. This has been very enjoyable and a lot of fun, and I appreciate you taking the time to be with us. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com so accessibi is spelled A, C, C, E, S, S i, B, E, so Michael M, I C H, A, E, L, H i@accessibe.com or go to our podcast page, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast and Michael hingson is m, I C H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s o n.com/podcast, love to hear from you, and certainly I hope that whenever you're listening or watching, give us a five star rating. We value your reviews, and we really want to know that we're doing good by you, so please give us good reviews, and if you have thoughts or things that you want us to know about, don't hesitate to reach out. It. And for all of you, and Ashley, including you, if you know of other people who ought to be guests on our podcast, it's so much fun to meet more people from those who have been on before. But for anyone, if you know someone who ought to be a guest, please let me know. Reach out, and we will honor your interest and we will bring them on, because I think everyone has, as I told Ashley earlier, stories to tell. So hope that you will do that and that we'll get to see you on our next episode. And again, Ashley, I just want to thank you for being here. This has been so much fun. All   Ashley Rudolph ** 1:05:37 right, thank you, Michael.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:05:42 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Inside Carolina football recruiting expert Don Callahan joins host Tommy Ashley to provide insight on the recent run of commitments for Bill Belichick and his North Carolina staff. From Burgess to Woods, Callahan dishes on the June commits as well as the massive scoop posted on IC's Tar Pit Premium message board and more on this edition. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices