Podcasts about Rutgers University

Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl is the stirring autobiography of Harriet Jacobs, a mother and fugitive, detailing her harrowing escape from enslavement, seven years hiding in an attic crawl space, and the racism she faced in freedom. Forgotten for decades after its original, 19th century publication, Jacobs' story was so harrowing and so brave it was thought to be fiction. Only through the research of historian Jean Fagan Yellin in the 1980s was it proven, once and for all, to be a brilliant and compelling work of nonfiction. Incidents is routinely cited by historians and fiction writers alike as one of the most influential texts of our time and our history. In this latest edition published by W.W. Norton (2025), Jacobs' characters come alive for a new generation of readers, and re-readers, this time contextualized with a new introduction and explanatory notes by Evie Shockley. Dr. Evie Shockley is the Zora Neale Hurston Distinguished Professor of English at Rutgers University. She is a two-time winner of the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award, and a finalist for the LA Times Book Review Prize, and the Pulitzer Prize. You can find her on Instagram. You can find host Sullivan Summer at her website, on Instagram, and on Substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl is the stirring autobiography of Harriet Jacobs, a mother and fugitive, detailing her harrowing escape from enslavement, seven years hiding in an attic crawl space, and the racism she faced in freedom. Forgotten for decades after its original, 19th century publication, Jacobs' story was so harrowing and so brave it was thought to be fiction. Only through the research of historian Jean Fagan Yellin in the 1980s was it proven, once and for all, to be a brilliant and compelling work of nonfiction. Incidents is routinely cited by historians and fiction writers alike as one of the most influential texts of our time and our history. In this latest edition published by W.W. Norton (2025), Jacobs' characters come alive for a new generation of readers, and re-readers, this time contextualized with a new introduction and explanatory notes by Evie Shockley. Dr. Evie Shockley is the Zora Neale Hurston Distinguished Professor of English at Rutgers University. She is a two-time winner of the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award, and a finalist for the LA Times Book Review Prize, and the Pulitzer Prize. You can find her on Instagram. You can find host Sullivan Summer at her website, on Instagram, and on Substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl is the stirring autobiography of Harriet Jacobs, a mother and fugitive, detailing her harrowing escape from enslavement, seven years hiding in an attic crawl space, and the racism she faced in freedom. Forgotten for decades after its original, 19th century publication, Jacobs' story was so harrowing and so brave it was thought to be fiction. Only through the research of historian Jean Fagan Yellin in the 1980s was it proven, once and for all, to be a brilliant and compelling work of nonfiction. Incidents is routinely cited by historians and fiction writers alike as one of the most influential texts of our time and our history. In this latest edition published by W.W. Norton (2025), Jacobs' characters come alive for a new generation of readers, and re-readers, this time contextualized with a new introduction and explanatory notes by Evie Shockley. Dr. Evie Shockley is the Zora Neale Hurston Distinguished Professor of English at Rutgers University. She is a two-time winner of the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award, and a finalist for the LA Times Book Review Prize, and the Pulitzer Prize. You can find her on Instagram. You can find host Sullivan Summer at her website, on Instagram, and on Substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

Did you know that there is a whole industry around the concept of helping deserving people and organizations to receive recognition through winning awards? In this episode we meet and get to know one of the foremost experts in this industry, Donna O'Toole. Donna grew up in the South of England in a real castle. At the age of 16 her family conditions changed, and she had to go to a home with four other girls who also lost their family arrangements. Donna had to go to work although she had wanted to go to university. Eventually she did get to earn her degree.   Donna studied linguistics and found ways to use her growing knowledge of the field. Eventually she discovered the value of recognition and how helping people and companies gain recognition made them better for the experience. She began working to help people and companies earn awards. She will tell us about this fascinating subject and why earning awards is important. She gives us statistics about how after working to win awards and the subsequent recognition sales and overall exposure usually grows.     About the Guest:   Donna O'Toole is an award-winning entrepreneur, international awards judge, and bestselling author of WIN! – the ultimate guide to winning awards. She's also the founder of August Recognition, a global leader in awards strategy and part of the Dent Global group, helping purpose-driven entrepreneurs stand out, scale up, and make a meaningful impact.   Named one of the Top 25 Customer Experience Influencers in the world, Donna has transformed the visibility and credibility of hundreds of businesses - from start-ups to FTSE 100 giants - by helping them win the recognition they deserve. Her clients span global brands, high-growth entrepreneurs, and inspirational leaders across every industry.   Donna is renowned for her outstanding success rate in the most prestigious awards in the world, including The King's Awards for Enterprise. She's passionate about the true value of awards - not just the trophy, but the trust, authority, and growth they generate.   Now, Donna is taking her mission even further. Together with her business partner and Dent Global co-founder Daniel Priestley, she's launching a pioneering new AI venture that's transforming the awards industry - making it safer, simpler, and smarter than ever for people to find, enter, and achieve the awards and recognition that matters.   Ways to connect with Donna:   https://www.augustawards.com/ - to get a free copy of my book: Win! and to get a Free awards list LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnaotoole/ Instagram: @donnaot     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:17 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Michael Hingson, and I think we'll have some fun today. We get to talk to Donna O'Toole, who is over in England, and she has a very interesting story to tell and a profession that she works at regarding awards. We'll get to all that in a bit. I don't want to give it all away, because it's more fun to listen to Donna tell it than it is to listen to me tell it. No one has ever said that I'm boring, but nevertheless, I always think that the people who come on the podcast are much more fun and interesting than I so I can't I can't argue with that, and of course, that's my job to make sure that happens. But anyway, here we are once again with unstoppable mindset. And Donna, I want to welcome you and thank you for being here.   Donna O'Toole ** 02:09 Thank you. It's great to be here with you. Michael, thank you.   Michael Hingson ** 02:13 And it's what about 930 in the evening? Or no, it's up 737   **Donna O'Toole ** 02:17 Well, it's   Michael Hingson ** 02:19 after dinner. Yeah. Well, thank you for being here. And we're, we're really glad to have the opportunity to do this. And so I'd like to start, it's so fun to always start this way. Tell us sort of about the early Donna growing up and all that. Ah, okay.   Donna O'Toole ** 02:35 Um, okay. So, well, I don't tell very many people this actually so secret. One for you, Michael, I actually grew up in a castle, which makes me sound like I lived in a fairy tale, but I didn't. It was definitely not a fairy tale, and I'm not a princess, so I'm sorry to disappoint anybody.   Michael Hingson ** 02:54 Well, what was it like growing up at a castle?   Donna O'Toole ** 02:59 It was, you know what? It's one of those things that when you're an adult, and you look back, you realize how amazing you were, it was, and how lucky you were. But when you're a child, it's just all, you know, isn't it? So, yeah, we were very lucky. I grew up in a town called Arundel, which is in the south of the UK. It's a very historic town, and the reason that I lived there was because my stepdad was the head groundsman at the castle, so he looked after all of the grounds for the Duke of Norfolk. And yeah, it was a it was a wonderful place to live. We used to be naughty and run around and go hiding in nooks and crannies that we shouldn't be. However, I was permanently petrified that there was ghosts and bats and all sorts of things like that.   Michael Hingson ** 03:48 So were there ghosts?   Donna O'Toole ** 03:49 Yes, definitely, certainly, they were making noises like ghosts, and we couldn't identify what they were. So, yeah, there's a few stories around that castle. Actually around I think there's a ghost of a lady in one in the library, and there is a ghost of a Labrador, actually, that people talk about seeing there as well. So I'm sure they were friendly.   Michael Hingson ** 04:14 Did you ever see any ghosts?   Donna O'Toole ** 04:16 I think I convinced myself that I did. On many occasion, my bedroom window looked out over Arundel Cathedral, which is was lit up at night, which looks very spooky. I used to be terrified to look out of the window at night, in case I saw something I didn't want to see.   Michael Hingson ** 04:36 So was the castle drafty and cold in the winter?   Donna O'Toole ** 04:40 Yes, definitely very stone and cold. And we had a ray burn. It's called, it's like an auger type thing where you just, you sort of heat up the kitchen by heating up this oven thing. Yeah, I remember putting wood in it. I remember that,   Michael Hingson ** 04:56 wow. Well, that was kind of fun. So how long did you. Live in the castle.   Donna O'Toole ** 05:00 So I lived in the castle until I was 16, and then her life took a bit of an unexpected turn at that point, and we had a difficult family breakdown that resulted in myself being actually taken into care for a while, so I didn't get to I did. I did finish school and finished my GCSEs exams as they were, but it did mean that I didn't get to continue on my education at that point, as I needed to earn some money and learn how to look after myself. So at 16, I was living in a home with four other girls who were in similar situations to me, which is girls who's through no fault of their own, their families couldn't look after them anymore. And we learned to, you know, live and survive and get through life together. And it was a great adventure. There was ups and downs, for sure, but actually at that point, I needed to get some work, and I also wanted to continue studying, so I ended up becoming an apprentice dental nurse, and that is where I started. And I never expected to go there. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 06:24 I guess, I guess it is an adventure, though. Yeah,   Donna O'Toole ** 06:27 Life is an adventure, and you've got to be ready for whatever it throws at you. That's what I say. And   Michael Hingson ** 06:31 I think that's a good way to put it. I think that life's an adventure, and I think that we can choose how to look at life no matter what happens, and either we can think things are positive and grow with whatever occurs or not. Yeah, 100% 100% and   Donna O'Toole ** 06:46 actually, if it wasn't for that part of my life, I don't think I would be here today, doing what I'm doing now. So it's, it's incredible how you can't predict where life's going to take you, but you do go on a journey. So I actually became a dental nurse. And then I got bit bored of that, and my brain was always active, trying to think of something new to do. And I spotted a gap in the market for at the time dentists had there was just this legislation that changed that meant that dentists always had to have a nurse or a chaperone in the surgery with them, whereas before they hadn't had to have that. And so what was happening was you had all these small dental practices whereby the the dentist couldn't work if their nurse was on holiday or off sick or on maternity leave or something. So I spotted this gap in the market to be to start a dental nurse agency to fill those gaps, if you pardon the pun, and and to actually go all over Sussex and support the practices that needed help. So that was at the age of 19, I started my first business, and yeah, it was a great   Michael Hingson ** 08:00 success. I was just going to ask how successful it was.   Donna O'Toole ** 08:03 Yeah, it was great, and I really enjoyed it. And I got to know so many people. I trained nurses, which I really enjoyed as well. So I developed myself whilst I was developing them, which was great and and then after that, I I stopped that business and handed it over to some good friends who were brilliant nurses to have my children and to take a little break while I have my two daughters.   Michael Hingson ** 08:27 Now, did you ever get to university or college?   Donna O'Toole ** 08:31 Yeah, so then had my girls, and still I've got a very busy brain that needs a lot of occupying. So I thought, right, what can I do now? I've got two children under the age of four or five. I know I must need something else to do, so I decided to go back, finally, to university, and I studied linguistics, so English language linguistics at the University of Sussex in in the UK. And interestingly, it's incredible, because during that part of my life, I absolutely loved every part of it. I was really passionate about English, and as a child, I'd wanted to be an English teacher, but because my life had gone on a different path, it wasn't something that I'd been able to do. But actually, during that time, I studied large language models and computer mediated communication. And it just absolutely blows my mind that through making that decision and then further decisions later down the road, I'm actually now launching a company that is AI based that is containing large language models. So it's really, like, amazing how you can connect the dots in your in your journey.   Michael Hingson ** 09:45 And of course, you're calling it Donna GPT, right? I had to. I   Donna O'Toole ** 09:51 love it. I'm Michael. I am definitely calling it that now.   Michael Hingson ** 09:56 Well, that's, that is cool though.   Donna O'Toole ** 09:58 Yeah. So when I. Actually completed my degree. I came out of that and thought, right, well, I need to do some work now. And I started writing for businesses. I'm quite a business writer. I'm a real aura of people who can write fiction. I think that's incredible, yeah, but I'm definitely on the factual side. So I started business writing. Then I started, just by coincidence, started writing award entries for some businesses. I then started working with another awards agency, and I really saw, then the power of how awards and recognition helped people to reach their potential in business and in life, and so that then took me on my next journey.   Michael Hingson ** 10:47 Well, awards are, are interesting. And of course, we hear about awards for all sorts of things, but tell me more about the power of awards and where they where they can fit into society.   Donna O'Toole ** 11:00 Yeah. So, so we work from I work with business awards, so generally speaking, so even back then, it was sort of working with entrepreneurs, or entrepreneurial businesses, or even big brands, whereby they wanted to recognize their achievement and they wanted to raise their profile, so they needed to raise brand awareness, perhaps around what they do, their services, their products, and what's always quite I find quite interesting about awards is people who've never been involved in awards tend to come into them with quite skepticism, which is understandable. It's not a regulated industry, so you do have to be a bit skeptical and do due diligence around what awards you're entering. But they come into them with skepticism about themselves and actually whether they have what it takes to win. And very often, what I found was they did have what it takes to win, they just didn't have know how to communicate it in a way that others could understand that they had what it took to win. So my job, as I see it, is to really support them, to communicate their story, their data, their evidence, everything that they're doing, and turn that into a proposition that demonstrates why they would be exceptional at what they do, or their team is exceptional, their brand is exceptional, so that They can stand out in awards.   Michael Hingson ** 12:21 So it's almost like you're helping to train potential award recipients to respect what the awards are and what they do. Yeah,   Donna O'Toole ** 12:31 it is always understanding what they're looking for, what the criteria is, and how they can stand out against it. But also, you know, most people who are involved in a business, whether you're running a business or whether you're a part of a team or you're a manager, we don't have the time to stop and look back and think, wow, what have we done over the last year? What have we achieved? What you know, what's really standing out about us? We just don't give ourselves that time. So recognition and awards is a really good opportunity to stop and look back and celebrate together the development journey that you've been on in your business and and motivate your team and the people around you to do even more because you're recognizing it   Michael Hingson ** 13:13 well. So how did you actually get involved in doing awards in the first place? What that's a pretty unique sort of thing to take on.   Donna O'Toole ** 13:23 Yeah. So it was kind of a journey from starting out in business writing and then moving through into doing a few award entries, and then that became more and more, and then I worked for another organization. And then in 2016 I decided the time was right to launch my own company and to start supporting more people with awards. I was, had already been involved with the industry, so I was very well supported by some great awards in the industry. And so yeah, I I started my new business, and that was called August recognition. And because I'm a linguist, I like words that have extra meanings. And August actually means in its second sense of the word, when you're not using it as the month actually means respected and admired. So in my mind, I had started an agency that enabled people to be respected and admired for what they did, and help them raise their profile that way. So   Michael Hingson ** 14:24 you don't really hear a lot about the industry of helping people get awards, but I gather it's probably a fairly substantial industry around the world.   Donna O'Toole ** 14:35 Yeah, it's 10 billion pound industry in the awards industry in itself. It's 2 billion just in the UK. So yeah, it's a big, big industry. There's so many events connected to awards. There's so many different processes. So yeah, and there's, if you imagine, every different industry there is in the world there's awards for it. I dare you to find an industry where there's not an award. Yeah. Even,   Michael Hingson ** 15:02 I'm sorry, even, even AI. And that's pretty even AI, yeah, yeah. And so when AI starts generating its own awards, then we can probably worry a little bit,   Donna O'Toole ** 15:13 yeah, we're eating ourselves, yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 15:17 But still, it's, it's a fascinating, well, topic and industry to talk about, because I'm sure there's a lot to it. Of course, like with anything, there's also a lot of politics and all that sort of stuff, but, but it must be a fascinating industry to to be a part of and to see when you help somebody get an award. How does all that work? Yeah, so   Donna O'Toole ** 15:42 usually, well, we work with businesses from the smallest business in the world right through to the biggest business in the world, literally. And what I really love about the whole process is you, you as a small business, you can use the same strategies, you can enter the same awards as the biggest businesses can and you can win. So what I really love is that you you don't have to be a certain size, you don't have to be a certain type of business. You just need to be having an impact in some way on something, and then be able to tell It and Prove It, essentially.   Michael Hingson ** 16:19 So how do you as a person in the industry make your money or earn your money as part of all of this? So   Donna O'Toole ** 16:26 we work with clients who are looking for recognition. So for example, a brand may come to us and say, you know, over the last couple of years, we've done some great learning and development projects. We've trained our teams, we've digitized our processes, we've done all of these great things. We'd love to recognize the people that have worked so hard and really, you know, give them the recognition that they deserve. So we will then look at their project, look at their business. You know, what kind of impact has that had on it might be internally. It might be that it's had a great impact for their customers. It might be it's had a great impact for the impact. For the employees. And then we'll look at all of the data around that, and we will create, we will research which are going to be the best awards to recognize them, which criteria they match, which categories they match, and then essentially, we'll support them to execute all of the work that needs to go together to go into the awards process. Someone's once said to me, did you ever think you'd be running a business where you're basically writing exams every single day? Yeah, it's a bit like that. Fortunately, I don't do the writing anymore so, but yeah, I kind of love it.   Michael Hingson ** 17:36 Yeah. Well, it seems like it would be sort of your your writing exams every day, or you're involved in helping to prepare people for the exams.   Donna O'Toole ** 17:45 Yeah, it's very analytical from looking at what's been achieved, but then it's all about communication and how you're going to deliver that to the awards process. And it's all about finding the right awards that are going to give them the right recognition, that's going to really have a return on investment for the motivation of the team, for the brand awareness, whatever it is that their goals are, that they're hoping to get to.   Michael Hingson ** 18:06 Well, so awards in general, it seems to me, create a lot of recognition. And you say that recognition has the power to make people unstoppable? Tell me a little bit more about them. What that means to you? Yeah,   Donna O'Toole ** 18:24 absolutely. Um, something I call awards imposter syndrome, which is where, you know, often, and this typically is with entrepreneurs and smaller businesses. They they'll come to us and say, you know, I'd really love to get some recognition of my brand, but I really, I think we we're doing enough, or don't know if we're worth it or we could really stand out. And actually, you know, what we want to do is make them unstoppable. We we want them to see where all the power is in what they're doing and how they can make a difference in the world. So we will go and discover all of that about their business, and then help them to communicate it in a way that even now they can see what they're doing is brilliant. And then through that recognition, there's a lot of research to show the amount of motivation that awards bring to people, even more so than even a pay rise, you know. So through that recognition, it makes them feel more able. I always say to people you know, don't think about business awards right now. Think about the awards that you won when you were a child. Think about when you were at school and you entered awards in the swimming competitions or dancing competitions. Someone want someone told me today they won a competition for the best recorder player. I said I thought, I thought we had to ban recorders. But you know, when you got that recognition as a child, we didn't think, Oh, my goodness, I'm you know, do I really deserve it? I'm so shy. Let's not tell anyone about this recognition. We loved it, and it enabled us to go on and do more. So we want to do okay, we won that swimming competition. Let's do another swimming competition. Let's really learn our craft and do more and more of what we do better and better. Her and I liked people to try and think of that feeling that they had then and bring that into now with their business. You know, don't be humble about what you're doing, because the more that you can shout about your success, the more that you can help other people to achieve success through what you're doing, and the more you've got a platform to shine a spotlight on something that you believe in and that you want to make a difference in the world about. So, you know it, I call that, I say to people, you know, if you're feeling like a bit of an imposter about awards, one of the best things you can do is to create what we call a who wins when you win campaign. And what that is, is sort of putting a stake in the ground and making a pledge to say, when we win this award, we are going to go and do this great thing, and it might be we're going to go and do a team beach clean together. We're going to mentor some people. We're going to celebrate as a team and go out for the day, or we're going to plant some trees. You know, it could be anything that means something to you, but it's a really good opportunity to seal that recognition with something that reminds you that you are worth it and really helps you get over that imposter syndrome and celebrate your achievement.   Michael Hingson ** 21:14 I assume you also run into the other side of that, which are the people who just think by definition, because they are, whoever they are, they must deserve awards, whether, yeah, must be a lot of that. Yes. So   Donna O'Toole ** 21:27 a while back, because I'm a linguist, I interrogate language all the time. I can't help it. And I would look at, I judge a lot of award entries all from around the world. Judge the leading competitions in many countries. And I would look at these award entries, and I could tell what the person was thinking when they're writing the entry, as they're coming as you're reading it. And I developed these 10 personas of different types of people that enter awards. And so we've got everything from the imposter to the ostrich who wants to hide their head in the sand to the bridesmaid who's always the always, never quite makes it to the podium. And one of those actually is the peacock. And the peacock is the one who thinks they're going to win everything, and does come across like that, but isn't great about taking the feedback when they don't win.   Michael Hingson ** 22:20 Yeah, that's really the issue, isn't it? Right? It's they don't take the feedback, and they don't change what they do and why they do it and how they do it, to be a little bit more humble in what they're all about.   Donna O'Toole ** 22:33 Absolutely, absolutely. We've also got an awards persona called the politician, and that's somebody who doesn't answer any of the questions, and all their numbers don't add up.   Michael Hingson ** 22:46 Now, I wonder what my cat would think about awards. I wonder dogs are humble, but I don't know that cats are necessarily,   Donna O'Toole ** 22:56 yeah, they've definitely got a bit more persona going on, haven't they? I don't   Michael Hingson ** 23:01 know if they necessarily would be interested in awards, because they tend not to want to stand up in front of public and do stuff. That's   Donna O'Toole ** 23:07 true, that's true. Yeah, they're kind of yeah, they're their own creature, aren't they? They are, aren't they? I don't think they think they need awards, actually,   Michael Hingson ** 23:15 yeah, that's right. They don't think they need awards. They think that everybody should just recognize them for who they are,   Donna O'Toole ** 23:20 I might have to add a new persona to my league now.   Michael Hingson ** 23:26 Well, you know, there's, there's value in that, but, but still, so you've, you've helped a lot of people with awards. I wonder if you have a story that you could share where they've received recognition and it just completely changed their lives and what they did and what they do. Oh,   Donna O'Toole ** 23:49 so many, so many of those. Yeah. So, I mean, let's think of an example. So a few years ago, I was working, actually, it was interesting. I was I was introduced by on email, just to a gentleman called Andrew, who I was introduced by the Department of Trade and Industry here in the UK, who said he's got a great story. He's got a great business. He's growing fast. We think he should win some awards. We should talk to you. And so I was like, great. Let's get on a call, Andrew. And every time we booked a call, he didn't turn up to the call. And I thought, oh goodness, you know, it's like three attempts at this call and it's just not happening. And I just emailed him and said, look, it looks like you. Maybe you're not interested in winning awards, so, you know, catch up with me if you ever get the chance. And he emailed me back, actually, this is in the introduction of my books. And he emailed me back, and he said, Donna, I'm so so sorry. I'm going through a really difficult time at the moment. His wife had cancer. His son was being bullied at school, and he was really struggling, and he'd started a business that would have grown very quickly, whilst also as a side hustle, while. Also doing the job, and he was quite overwhelmed. And I said, he said, you know, and he actually said, so if I can't even turn up for a call, how could I possibly win an award? So I said, Oh, my goodness, okay, let me, let's get together, and I'll let you know whether you can win an award or not. But this is a big award we're talking about, because he'd actually been recommended to enter what was the Queen's Awards for Enterprise. It's now the king's Awards, which is the biggest and most prestigious business award in the UK, if not in the world. And I said, let's, you know, you've been recommended for this. Let's, let's at least explore it. So I went over to his house. We had a coffee, I went through everything of his business, and I said, You know what I do? Think you've got what it takes, but I don't think you're in the right mindset to be able to manage so let us help you. So he agreed, we worked on that project, and a year later, because that's how long it takes, I was absolutely delighted. He won the Queen's awards for innovation, and it was game changing for him. And what I really loved about it was, it's a couple of things. So one is because he's a techie person, and he had launched it was a software product that he'd developed. He'd put the logo for the award on his website, and he measured the impact that that was making on his website, which is really useful for me to know, because often people don't do that. And he got came back to me in a couple of months later, and he said, in three months, his sales have gone up by 30% because of the impact of winning this award. And you know, when you're running a business and you're trying to run a family and you've got other things going on that are really important, you need your sales to go up without you having to work harder, because it gives you the free time. It gives you the ability to employ people to support you. It gives you then the time back with your family when they need you most. So I was absolutely delighted for him that it had an impact on him and his business that would enable him to actually have the time that he needed with his family and help them and support them. So that was something that was game changing in my mind, for, you know, for a really personal reason. And I was delighted he was happy to share that in in my book. Yeah, so that that was a lovely one.   Michael Hingson ** 27:14 So what is kind of the common thread? Or, how do you what is it you see in someone that makes them award winning, that that genuinely makes them award winning, as opposed to the politicians and peacock   Donna O'Toole ** 27:28 Okay, so what it is is they need to be making an impact in some way. And I think people tend to be quite fixated on on measuring or looking at their customer service, but I'm looking at their customer impact. So what their customer impact is that's something customer service is transactional, right? Customer impact is transformational. So what is it that you're doing that is making a difference or making life easier in some way for your customers? Or it is could be internal as well. So it could be your employees, for example, but generally it's impact. Now, with Andrew's story, the software that he developed, it was the first software that had the biggest ability to, I mean, I'm not a techie, so I'm probably describing this in the wrong way, the ability to display charts and graphs with the biggest amount of numbers. So we think, Okay, well, why is that important? Well, these are the graphs and the charts that are going into ECG machines in hospitals. These are going into universities to do research. You know? These are going into all sorts of things, stocks and shares. They're going into Formula One racing cars. There's so many, there's so much impact coming out from having designed that software that it's having an impact on us as humanity, and that's the kind of golden thread that you want in your award, is, what is the impact that you're having, and where can you show and prove that it's making a difference to someone, somehow, somewhere?   Michael Hingson ** 28:56 And I assume there are, we've talked about it, but I assume that there are a lot of people who are award winners who never, just never thought they would be, even though they're, they're perfectly capable and, oh yeah, they're deserving, but they, they don't, they're not doing it to seek the award. They're doing it to do what they want to do.   Donna O'Toole ** 29:18 Yeah, and they need, they need the recognition to shine that you know, 90% of businesses are small businesses now, and it's a very noisy world out there when you're trying to sell your products and services, you need to be able to do something that helps you to cut through and to get into customers minds and build trust. 85 Nielsen did a study 85% of customers now want to see credible awards on your website, on your products, before they will have the trust layer there to buy from you. What's really interesting is, years ago, we had, you remember when reviews came out? So Amazon was one of the first organizations to do reviews. I actually studied. Reviews and the mechanisms and language structures in them. And we all trusted reviews at the beginning, because, oh, great, you know, someone's going to tell us what their experience was of this thing, and we love it. And then as time went on and as the decades have progressed, we then learned not trust reviews, because it was like, Oh, hang on, they might be fake reviews, or, you know, that could be a competitor, putting a bad review on a competitor. So there's lots of reasons then not to trust reviews. So then we go, oh, well, what do we trust? Then we can't just trust what the business is telling us. We need something that's external, that's third party, and that's going to enable us to trust that brand. And then what we saw then is the pandemic happened, and we all went to shopping online. We all went to living online, and we all saw businesses fall apart and lose money who we never expected to because they didn't have the digital transformation turn around quick enough, or for whatever reason, there was a lot of businesses that suffered in the pandemic, and a lot thrived, and since that then, it was almost like awards and reviews together became even more important to all of us, because we needed something to help us to trust the brands other than, you know, the strongest referral, which is a word of mouth referral. So if you haven't had a word of mouth referral and you've gone online and you found something through a search, how do you know whether you can trust putting your money into that business to buy its products or services? So this is really where we come back to recognition, to say, Well, no, this is a this brand gives excellent customer service, or this brand is a great place to work. It really looks after its employees. So there's a huge amount of reasons now why businesses do awards to demonstrate they are trustworthy in so many ways like nowadays. You know, we live in a world where employees want to work for organizations that will look after them and that will treat them well, so that employees looking for jobs will go out looking for the businesses that have got a great place to work accreditation or award because it makes them trust that they're going to be looked after. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 32:08 it's interesting. Nielsen did a study back in 2016 regarding brand brand loyalty and disabilities, and what they found was that people with disabilities are at least 35% more likely to stay with an organization and buy from an organization that has done things like really taken the Time to make their websites accessible and to make their their environment welcoming to people with disabilities, because it is so hard to oftentimes deal with companies they're they're companies that that I deal with their websites. They're just not accessible, and they don't want to change, and it's not magic to make them accessible, but they don't, and then there are other companies that do, and I agree with the Nielsen study. It makes perfect sense, because the reality is, you're going to steal with companies that that really take the time to show that they value you being there, yeah,   Donna O'Toole ** 33:17 well, it's interesting, actually, because I've been looking at this in the awards industry and accessibility, and it's something that I'm passionate about as well. And so we've just written a white paper, we've just done some research, commissioned some research, and we've just written a white paper on accessibility and awards, because we want people to be recognized, whatever, whoever, whatever they do, it shouldn't be saved for anyone who isn't, you know, doesn't have a disability or can't access their forms. You know, it should be open to absolutely everybody. So we've been looking into that now and seeing, you know, what is it that we can do to influence the industry to be more accessible and to really share recognition for all?   Michael Hingson ** 33:59 Yeah, well, and, and it's important, I think, to do that, because there have been enough statistics to show that roughly 25% of the population has some sort of a disability in the traditional sense of the word. Now, I have a different view than that. I believe that everyone on the planet has a disability, and for most people, their disability is you're light dependent. You don't do well in the dark, and if suddenly you're in a building and the power goes out or whatever, you scramble around trying to find a light source or a smartphone or a flashlight or whatever. But the reality is that all those light sources do is cover up your disability. On the other hand, I do recognize that there are people. We're in a minority by any standard, because we are, we are not the traditional, if you will, person. We do tend to be blind, or we tend to be deaf or hard of hearing, or we tend to be low vision, or we don't walk, and there are fewer of. Less than there are of the rest of you light dependent people, and so you don't recognize the disability that's there. But it's, it's important, I think, for people to recognize it. Because in reality, when people suddenly realize, Oh, I've got my own challenges, then you get to be more aware of and want to, at least a lot of times, think about ways to make the world a more inclusive place overall.   Donna O'Toole ** 35:27 I think that's such a great way of looking at it, and it really helps immediately. I couldn't see exactly what you you're saying is, yeah, 100% as soon as the lights go out, I'm completely incapable of knowing what to do next. So, yeah, you're absolutely right.   Michael Hingson ** 35:44 Yeah, it is. It is one of those things that we just don't deal with enough. But nevertheless, it's, it's there. So there, there are a lot of reasons to to deal with access, and that's why I work with a company called accessibe that has been they started smaller and narrower in scope, but they have become very robust in doing things to make the internet a more inclusive place. And so one of the things that they've learned is you can't do it all with AI, although AI can help. And so there are so many things to be done, but the reality is, there are a lot of different kinds of disabilities that really need the Internet to and website creators to pay attention to their needs, to make sure that they, in fact, do what's necessary to make the web accessible to those people. It's a challenge.   Donna O'Toole ** 36:40 It is, and we're going through that challenge at the moment, actually. So I'm just launching a new business, and it's called, it's an AI platform that's going to enable people to do exactly what we do as an agency, find, enter and win awards, but on a platform that is accessible to everybody. So it's aI enabled. But obviously, as you exactly say, that's not the end of the story. So there's a lot of work to do, and we're doing lots of research to find out what we need to do to make sure that that is accessible to everybody, because we want to enable more people to have a good chance of getting the recognition they deserve through a platform that enables them to do that, rather than perhaps miss out on really vital recognition that could help to promote what they do just because they can't access it.   Michael Hingson ** 37:31 Yeah, well, and it happens way too, way too often. Yeah. And it's not like it's magical to make the web more inclusive. It's just that a lot of people don't know how to do it. Although the information is readily available, they just don't consider it a priority.   Donna O'Toole ** 37:48 Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, we're really putting this front and center. My business partner is Daniel Priestley. He's just been on the driver CEO actually talking about the AI side of it. So together, we're really working at trying to join all the dots so that we get all the right technologies in there and ways of working. So I'll be getting you beta testing that. Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 38:14 absolutely. And if there's any way to help, I am very happy to help. Thank you. So Don't, don't hesitate to reach out. So we will. We've now said that publicly for the whole world, that's all right. So what do you say to the person who says winning an award is just not for   Donna O'Toole ** 38:33 me? I think often, you know, I was thinking about this earlier, actually, and I was thinking, you know, there's different things that we're all in favor of and all not in favor of most of the time, when I come across people who say a winning awards is not, for me, is they either haven't been involved in an awards process before, or they feel a bit shy of it and like a bit of an imposter. And, you know, it's a risk, isn't it? You're putting yourself up to be judged, ultimately. So it does take a bit of courage, and it takes a bit of reflection. So, you know, I say, Look at what impact you're having, you know, go away and see, have you got impact on your customers? Somehow, have you got impact on your community? Somehow? It doesn't all have to be about transactional business. It could be that actually you're doing something great for the environment or sustainability or for a community source or for charity, you know, so what are you doing that's making a difference, and it could recognition help you to do more of that? Could it give you the spotlight to enable you to do more of that purpose? Because if it could, then why not, you know, why not do it and get some recognition?   Michael Hingson ** 39:36 Yeah, well, and that makes sense. And but some people may still just continue to say, well, I don't really think I've done that much, and so it isn't for me.   Donna O'Toole ** 39:47 Yeah, absolutely. And you'll always have people who don't want to do everything at the end of the day, you know, it's probably, realistically, it's probably, you know, the top 10% of businesses that are looking to win awards because they're already in that zone or. Where they're, you know, they're growing, they're they're trying to transform. They're always jumping on the next best thing. So, you know, it's a good way to benchmark ourselves as well, and to say, you know, how can I progress this year? Well, what would it take for me to win this particular award? Let's say, let's have a look at what it would take, and let's see if we can get to the business, to that stage, because that way you can develop the business first, before you even think of entering the award, so that you have got the impact, and you have got, you know, all the right things to show that you're making a difference.   Michael Hingson ** 40:31 Yeah, and you brought up a point earlier, which I think is extremely interesting, the whole issue of awards and reviews, one of the things that I do when I'm looking at buying a product that I'm not overly familiar with is I love to look at the worst reviews for the product. Yeah, they're the most fun, because you find out really quickly. If you look at those reviews, you find out whether the person really knows what they're talking about or not and whether they really got good arguments. And I find that the people who give the bad reviews generally are, are not, are not necessarily, really giving you substantive information that you can use.   Donna O'Toole ** 41:15 Yeah, exactly. That's often the way I am. I actually studied reviews, and I looked at the different language structures and reviews of different retail stores, and how, how the the language that the people used in their reviews influenced the buyers. And it was really funny, because this is back in the days. This is just when I was at university. I was doing my dissertation, and it was what we were looking for. What I was looking for was what represent, what people felt represented good value for money. Because no matter how much money you've got, whether you've got a pound to spend or 1000 pounds to spend, you just want to get good value for money for what you're spending. So it doesn't really matter how pricey the product is. It matters your perception of good value for money, and that's essentially what tends to come across in a review, even if people don't say it is whether they think it's good value for money or not, whether it's the brand or the actual product. And it was really funny, because I did this whole study, and I came up with a structure that retailers should use to give to their reviewers to then put the review in in the most helpful way possible for the people then looking at the reviews who want to purchase the product, and I it was great, and I was really happy with it, and got first class and all of that. Anyway, a while later, I bought a coat from a store called Debenhams in the UK, which is now only online. But I bought this coat, I wrote a review and put it on their website. And it was quite the early days of reviews. Still, two days later, Debenhams called me, and I couldn't believe it, because when you had to leave your review, you had to leave your name and number, and it was like, I said, it's a very new thing then. And they actually telephoned me, and they said, Hello, we want to say thank you for your review that you left about this coat, and I still have the coat. And because, because of your review, we sold out the product. And so we want to say thank you. So we're sending you a voucher. And I got this voucher through the post. And I mean, you wouldn't get that, I don't think nowadays, no, but it really showed me the difference that a review could make on a product back then, you know, and how writing the right type of review, not just saying it's great, but why it's great, why I considered it good value for money about the material and the sizing and the shape and all of the quality and that kind of thing. It gave people reassurance to buy, and that's what we're looking for when we're looking at reviews. And that's where awards can come in and kind of secure that trust as well. I don't know about you, but I get down rabbit holes with reviews on things like trip,   Michael Hingson ** 43:52 oh yeah. Well, what I found is, if I look at the positive, the best reviews, I get more good technical information, and I got and I get more good product knowledge, but then I look at the bad reviews, and the reason I look at those is I want to see if they truly are giving me the same information the other way, and they don't. They're it's totally emotional, and a lot of times it is just not, in fact, what I or others find with the products, and that the bad reviews tend not to really give you nearly the information that the bad reviewers think they're giving you if you if you read them carefully. And I think that gets back to your whole issue of studying language, but still, they're not giving you the information that they really ought to be giving you. And, you know, I've had some where somebody gave a bad review to a product because the box arrived and it was open or wasn't sealed. Well, yeah, all right, so what   Donna O'Toole ** 44:55 exactly I know it's ridiculous. I mean, I think we're as consumers a bit more. Pragmatic about it nowadays, but as businesses, we need to be able to demonstrate to our customers in every way possible, you know. And that's why social media now and user generated content is so popular. Because we don't want to see what it looks like on a model anymore. We want to see what it looks like on a real life, personal we want to hear someone's like real life, day to day experience of something, as opposed to a polished article on it, right,   Michael Hingson ** 45:26 which, which is, is the way it ought to be. And again, that gets back to substance. And the the people who give really good reviews are generally the ones that are giving you substance. I've had some bad reviewers that had very good reasons for why they feel the way they do. And then you look at it and you go, Well, maybe it doesn't fit in their situation or, aha, they really know what they're talking about. I'm going to take that into consideration when I look at buying this product or not. But a lot of them   Donna O'Toole ** 45:57 don't. Absolutely, no, absolutely, yeah, I could do this for days.   Michael Hingson ** 46:04 Yeah. Well, it is. It is fascinating, but it's part of human nature   Donna O'Toole ** 46:09 psychology, isn't I tell you when else it comes up and it's quite interesting. So often we make companies may approach us and say, Leo, we want to win awards to be the best place to work. And we'll say, okay, great, you know, tell us about the workplace, and we'll go through all these different criteria with them, and they tell us all this great stuff. And then we go and do our own research as well, because we need to verify this, right? And we go on to glass door, and then we see some horrendous reviews from employees that have left. I think, okay, maybe this is, maybe this is not quite all the story we're getting here. Yeah. So, you know, the thing with awards is, if you are saying anything about your business, you're going to have to prove it. So reviews from your customers and reviews from your employees are super important for awards. Actually,   Michael Hingson ** 46:59 I find as a speaker that letters of recommendation are extremely important. In fact, I even put it in my contract that if someone likes the talk, then I expect to get a letter of recommendation. And for a good amount of people, they do that, although I've had some people who forget or just don't. But the letters are extremely valuable, especially when they go into detail about not just the talk, but like in my case, I view when I visit a customer, or when I view when I talk about going to speak somewhere, I believe that I'm a guest like anyone who goes, and it's not about me, it's about them. It's about the event. It's about the people who are putting it on. It's about the audience. And I always want to make sure that I do everything I can to be as not a problem as possible. And I know that there are some people that don't do that. I had a I had an event once where I went and spoke, and while there, I talked to the person who brought me in, and I said, What's the most difficult speaker you ever had? Had come here? And I was just curious. I was curious to see what he say without any hesitation. He said, We had a woman who came to speak, and we honored the contract, although still don't know why, but she insisted that in the green room, and so there had to be one, but in the green room there had to be a brand new, never used crystal champagne flute full of pink M M's. Now what does that have to do with being a speaker? Well, I know some people just like to take people through the wringer. They want to try to drive the point home that they're the bosses. Well, I think that, you know, I know what I can do. What I said to the guy, though afterward I said, Well, okay, I hear you. They actually did find peak Eminem. So was interesting. I said, Well, let me just tell you that if you bring cheese and crackers, I'll share them with you.   49:10 They brought you that we had fun, yes,   Michael Hingson ** 49:13 but, you know, but, but he, he understood that there were no demands. I wouldn't do that. I just think that that's not what I'm supposed to do as a speaker. My job is to in a well, inspire and motivate and and to educate. But it's not my job to be difficult. And I've gotten some wonderful letters that say how easy I made it to work with them, which is great. Yeah, fantastic. I'm sure you did. So it's, it's a lot of fun to to see some of those, and I've gotten some great stories over the years, which is really   Speaker 1 ** 49:46 a lot, and that's why they love to have you. Well, I hope so   Michael Hingson ** 49:53 we still do it, and it's a lot of fun to help and motivate and inspire. But yeah, I. I and by the way, I guess I'd never be interested in pink M M's anyway, so I wouldn't see the colors. So,   Donna O'Toole ** 50:08 yeah, glass of water is just about the thing on my list.   Michael Hingson ** 50:12 Yeah, well, you know, I'll take M M's if they show up. And I'm not going to demand them, that's okay. But you know, people are interesting. So once somebody's won an award, you've talked about this some, but when I once somebody has won an award, what's next?   Donna O'Toole ** 50:28 So next, it's all about, well, sharing it to demonstrate why people often forget to tell people why they've won an award. They just say that they've won an award. I think it's important to say, why? Like, what is it? What is it? What impact are you having? What's the difference that you're making out there in the world? Why have you won and share that on your profile? As I said, you know, people buy from people now as well. If you're winning an award as a leader or as a speaker or as an entrepreneur, you know people want to know about that because it helps to give credibility to what you do and trust like, just like those letters of referral that you're talking about. So, you know, get that on your LinkedIn profile, get it onto your podcast, you know, all of those different things, and take pride in your work and share that   Michael Hingson ** 51:14 I had a salesperson I hired is my favorite sales guy, and when I asked him, as I asked everybody who came to apply for jobs, what are you going to be selling for us? Tell me about that. He is the only person who ever said, The only thing I really have to sell is myself and my word. Your product is stuff, and it's all about trust and it's all about honoring my word. And he said, The only thing I asked from you is that you backed me up. And I said, well, as long as you do a good job, you know, but he understood it, and he's actually the only person that I ever hired that really articulated that, but that was always the answer I was looking for, because it really told me a lot about him. Just that simple answer told me more about him than anything else anyone, even he could say,   Donna O'Toole ** 52:06 yeah, absolutely. So it's so important, and you know, so I'm part of a key person of influence program that Daniel Priestley runs, and it's I do profile coaching for entrepreneurs to help them to become a key person of influence in their in their industry. And now that's not being an influencer. That's being someone who's known for being good at what they do and being a key person in that industry. And you know, work flows to you if people know what you do and know who to come to because you're the expert in that area, if you're a small business, you're an entrepreneur, you're struggling to get leads, then actually maybe you need to make yourself put bit more known. People tend to be bit shy and hide behind their brand. But you know, if you look at people like Richard Branson, you know, we when you trust an entrepreneur, then you will buy from the brand. And there's many more entrepreneurs I could mention, who when the trust is lost with them because of their behavior in some way, then their brand suffers. It's quite clear to see, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 53:09 do you find that most people who win an award do carry on and do positive things as a result, and that their brand and what they do improves, or is some people win and just falls by the wayside.   Donna O'Toole ** 53:27 Generally speaking, if you're the people that are going in for awards, the brands that are going forwards, they're progressive, so they usually progress with it. There's a piece of research that shows that businesses that have won awards are around 77% more valuable than businesses without awards even five years after winning. And that's because when you're going for an award in business, you've got to do a lot of develop. You know, there's got to be some good stuff happening in your business. And so naturally, the businesses that are doing those good things want to keep doing more of those good things internally, and so they tend to keep driving the business forward. And they have that motivation. They have motivated teams who are being recognized for the work that they're doing, and all of that naturally pushes them forward. So in five years time, they're still leagues ahead of their competitors that are not winning awards.   Michael Hingson ** 54:20 So always worth exploring winning awards. Oh, 100% Yeah. If   Donna O'Toole ** 54:27 I always say, I think, quote Nelson Mandela on this, you've got nothing to lose. You'll either win or you'll learn. If you don't win, then you should learn something about what you do need to do to win, and that will bring your business on.   Michael Hingson ** 54:39 Absolutely agree it's like, I also believe there's no such thing as failure. Failure is really it didn't go the way you planned. And so what do you learn in order to make that not happen again?   Donna O'Toole ** 54:51 Yeah, exactly, that exactly. So we need that kind of resilience in business today,   Michael Hingson ** 54:57 if people listening and watching this. Just take away one lesson and get one piece of advice out of this. What should it be?   Donna O'Toole ** 55:04 Understand your impact? I would say people don't often understand their impact. So ask your customers, ask your employees, what's improved since we've been working together? What? What if? What's improved for you since you've been using our product? And then calculate up what is that impact that you're having? You know, if 90% of your customers are saying that since using your product, I don't know, they're they're they're having a better their their accounts are better, or their skin is better. You whatever it is your product or your service is, then you've got impact that you're having. So start investigating what that impact is, and then that will help to steer you towards which kind of awards you could potentially be winning as well.   Michael Hingson ** 55:47 And of course, if you really think about your impact and whoever you are and whatever business you're doing, and you do monitor that, then that's one of the most important things that you can do about your business anyway, and people should be doing that.   Donna O'Toole ** 56:01 Yeah, exactly. But probably 90% of people that come to me aren't measuring their impact, and so it's a surprise, but I always say, Well, if you don't know what your impact is, how do you know that what your product or your services works? Just because people are buying it, you still need to know what your impact is. How do you measure impact? Oh, you can measure it in so many different ways, and you want in awards to be able to demonstrate it both quantitatively and qualitatively. So typically, in large corporate organizations, they will be measuring impact. So there's something called net promoter scores. So, you know, they'll be asking customers, would they recommend them? They'll ask them what they're enjoying about their products and things. So they tend to have some kind of measurement built into their process, in their customer departments, however, in smaller businesses, often they don't. So I say, you know, draw up a simple survey, ask your customers what's changed since you've been working with us. Let's say you're a service provider. So are you less stressed since you've been working with us? Do you have more revenue coming in since you've been working with us? What is it? And get them to answer a little survey. And then you could go all this collective impact that you can put together to look at the percentages and see what that's telling you. And if you don't want to know what the impact is in your business, then I question why you don't want to why   Michael Hingson ** 57:16 you're in the business in the first place, exactly. Well, tell us about your book. You've mentioned books several times, yeah.   Donna O'Toole ** 57:23 So I wrote a book called Win, of course, raise your profile and grow your business through winning awards. And really, it's a toolkit for for entrepreneurs. I was working with a lot of large businesses, and, you know, I was conscious that small businesses don't always have the resources to win awards or to be able to outsource. So I wrote a book that they could use to follow the toolkit, essentially, of winning awards. So that's developing their strategy, knowing understanding how awards work and which ones would suit their business, setting awards goals, understanding criteria. What does innovation really mean? What do they want to see? What kind of evidence do I need to provide? How do I know if it's the right race for me? All of those things. So it takes you end to end, through the awards journey internationally. You know, no matter where you are, you can follow the same process, and you could nowadays, it's really important to become the most award winning in your sector, so you can follow the process to get there. And that's a hugely valuable tagline.   Michael Hingson ** 58:26 And I appreciate that you sent us a picture of the book cover, and it is in the show notes. I hope people will go get   Donna O'Toole ** 58:31 it absolutely and it is on Audible as well, so that everyone can access it. So yeah, enjoy listening to my voice a lot more.   Michael Hingson ** 58:39 I was just going to ask if you read it. I did read it for you.   Donna O'Toole ** 58:44 Do you know what it was? I was so proud of that I was more proud of the audible recording than I was of writing at the book. But I don't know why. I think it's because I actually really enjoy listening to books on audio. So I'm quite passionate about listening. I like listening to the actual author's voice, though. So I found I was quite interesting, actually, when I found, when I recorded it, that was quite good at recording audio. The studio guy that I was working with was like, Oh, you're really good at this. We could just drop it words back in if there was a mistake.   Michael Hingson ** 59:14 There you are. See, it is so much better to edit today than it used to be, because now it is. It is all electronic, and I, I edit from time to time, just different things and all that I don't we work on not editing the podcast. That is, I don't want to cut out part of a conversation, because it is a conversation, but, but now you can do so many things, like, if there's a lot of noise, you can even filter that out without affecting the camera. It is so cool.   Donna O'Toole ** 59:43 Yeah, very, very clever. So, yeah, get it on Audible. There you   Michael Hingson ** 59:47 go. Well, great. Well, I hope people will Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun, and you should get an award for doing it. That's all there is to it. But I really appreciate you being here. And. I appreciate all of you out there listening to us and watching us. Love to get your thoughts. How do people reach out to you? Donna, if they'd like to to talk with you,   Donna O'Toole ** 1:00:09 absolutely. So you can con

Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl is the stirring autobiography of Harriet Jacobs, a mother and fugitive, detailing her harrowing escape from enslavement, seven years hiding in an attic crawl space, and the racism she faced in freedom. Forgotten for decades after its original, 19th century publication, Jacobs' story was so harrowing and so brave it was thought to be fiction. Only through the research of historian Jean Fagan Yellin in the 1980s was it proven, once and for all, to be a brilliant and compelling work of nonfiction. Incidents is routinely cited by historians and fiction writers alike as one of the most influential texts of our time and our history. In this latest edition published by W.W. Norton (2025), Jacobs' characters come alive for a new generation of readers, and re-readers, this time contextualized with a new introduction and explanatory notes by Evie Shockley. Dr. Evie Shockley is the Zora Neale Hurston Distinguished Professor of English at Rutgers University. She is a two-time winner of the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award, and a finalist for the LA Times Book Review Prize, and the Pulitzer Prize. You can find her on Instagram. You can find host Sullivan Summer at her website, on Instagram, and on Substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literature

Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl is the stirring autobiography of Harriet Jacobs, a mother and fugitive, detailing her harrowing escape from enslavement, seven years hiding in an attic crawl space, and the racism she faced in freedom. Forgotten for decades after its original, 19th century publication, Jacobs' story was so harrowing and so brave it was thought to be fiction. Only through the research of historian Jean Fagan Yellin in the 1980s was it proven, once and for all, to be a brilliant and compelling work of nonfiction. Incidents is routinely cited by historians and fiction writers alike as one of the most influential texts of our time and our history. In this latest edition published by W.W. Norton (2025), Jacobs' characters come alive for a new generation of readers, and re-readers, this time contextualized with a new introduction and explanatory notes by Evie Shockley. Dr. Evie Shockley is the Zora Neale Hurston Distinguished Professor of English at Rutgers University. She is a two-time winner of the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award, and a finalist for the LA Times Book Review Prize, and the Pulitzer Prize. You can find her on Instagram. You can find host Sullivan Summer at her website, on Instagram, and on Substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/biography

Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl is the stirring autobiography of Harriet Jacobs, a mother and fugitive, detailing her harrowing escape from enslavement, seven years hiding in an attic crawl space, and the racism she faced in freedom. Forgotten for decades after its original, 19th century publication, Jacobs' story was so harrowing and so brave it was thought to be fiction. Only through the research of historian Jean Fagan Yellin in the 1980s was it proven, once and for all, to be a brilliant and compelling work of nonfiction. Incidents is routinely cited by historians and fiction writers alike as one of the most influential texts of our time and our history. In this latest edition published by W.W. Norton (2025), Jacobs' characters come alive for a new generation of readers, and re-readers, this time contextualized with a new introduction and explanatory notes by Evie Shockley. Dr. Evie Shockley is the Zora Neale Hurston Distinguished Professor of English at Rutgers University. She is a two-time winner of the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award, and a finalist for the LA Times Book Review Prize, and the Pulitzer Prize. You can find her on Instagram. You can find host Sullivan Summer at her website, on Instagram, and on Substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

Is the breakup of an increasingly polarized America into separate red and blue countries even possible? There is a growing interest in American secession. In February 2023, Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted that "We need a national divorce...We need to separate by red states and blue states." Recent movements like Yes California have called for a national divorce along political lines. A 2023 Axios poll shows that 20 percent of Americans favor a national divorce. These trends show a sincere interest in American secession, and they will likely increase in the aftermath of the 2024 Presidential election. Proponents of secession make three arguments: the two sides have irreconcilable differences; secession is a legal right; and smaller political units are better. Through interviews with secessionist advocates in America, Ryan Griffiths explores the case for why Red America and Blue America should split up. But as The Disunited States shows, these arguments are fundamentally incorrect. Secession is the wrong solution to the problem of polarization. Red and Blue America are not neatly sorted and geographically concentrated. Splitting the two parts would require a dangerous unmixing of the population, one that could spiral into violence and state collapse. Drawing on his expertise on secessionism worldwide, he shows how the process has played out internationally-and usually disastrously. Ultimately, this book will disabuse readers of the belief that secession will fix America's problems. Rather than focus on national divorce as a solution, the better course of action is to seek common ground. Ryan D. Griffiths is a Professor in the Department of Political Science at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, Syracuse University. His research focuses on the dynamics of secession and the study of sovereignty, state systems, and international orders. He teaches on topics related to nationalism, international relations, and international relations theory. Daniel Moran's writing about literature and film can be found on Pages and Frames. He earned his B.A. and M.A. in English from Rutgers University and his Ph.D. in History from Drew University. The author of Creating Flannery O'Connor: Her Critics, Her Publishers, Her Readers, he teaches research and writing and co-hosts the long-running p Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

Episode Summary: Benoy Thanjan sits down with his co-host Nate Jovanelly, Founder & CEO of SunRaise Capital, to break down how the Big Beautiful Bill is reshaping residential solar. They discuss Section 25D's removal, the surge in solar + storage, and innovative financing models like prepaid leases.   Biographies Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy, and a strategic advisor to multiple clean energy startups. Over his career, Benoy has developed over 100 MW of solar projects across the U.S., helped launch the first residential solar tax equity funds at Tesla, and brokered $45 million in Renewable Energy Credits (REC) transactions. Prior to founding Reneu Energy, Benoy was the Environmental Commodities Trader in Tesla's Project Finance Group, where he managed one of the company's largest environmental commodities portfolios. He originated REC trades and co-developed a monetization and hedging strategy with senior leadership to enter the East Coast market. As Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners, Benoy crafted project finance solutions for commercial-scale solar projects. His role at Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund with 125 MW of U.S. renewable assets, involved evaluating investment opportunities and maximizing returns. He also played a key role in the sale of the firm's renewable portfolio. Earlier in his career, Benoy worked in Energy Structured Finance at Deloitte & Touche and Financial Advisory Services at Ernst & Young, following an internship on the trading floor at D.E. Shaw & Co., a multi billion dollar hedge fund. Benoy holds an MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from NYU Stern, where he was an Alumni Scholar.   Nathan Jovanelly Nate is the CEO and Founder of SunRaise Capital's mission is to provide affordable and accessible renewable energy options to homeowners, while reducing carbon footprints and creating a sustainable future for generations to come. They achieve their mission by partnering with industry leading solar installers to provide our customers with the best possible solar experience at competitive rates. As the CEO of an innovative residential solar lease company, he spearheads strategic initiatives aimed at harmonizing the objectives of our funding partners, installation teams, and homeowners. With a relentless focus on alignment, he cultivates collaborative relationships to ensure mutual success and satisfaction across all stakeholders. Through innovative leadership and a commitment to transparency, he drives sustainable growth while delivering exceptional value to our investors, installers, and customers alike.   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   Nathan Jovanelly SunRaise Capital Website:  https://www.sunraisecapital.com/ Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/natejov/ Email:  nate@sunraise.com   Thank you to AMS Renewable Energy for Sponsoring this Episode of the Solar Maverick Podcast!  This episode of the Solar Maverick Podcast is brought to you by our sponsor—AMS Renewable Energy. AMS is a top-tier solar EPC that operates with the precision and mindset of a commercial general contractor. Headquartered in the Bronx, New York—and licensed nationwide—AMS has over 30 years of construction experience, tackling even the most complex solar projects with unmatched expertise and craftsmanship. Whether it's a challenging C&I rooftop, ground mount, or full turnkey solution, AMS is committed to best-in-class service and results that last. If you're looking for a solar EPC partner who understands construction inside and out—AMS Renewable Energy should be at the top of your list. Learn more at [ams-renewable.com] and tell them the Solar Maverick sent you!   Nate's other interviews on the Solar Maverick Podcast SMP 205: Revolutionizing Solar Finance: How SunRaise Capital Attracts Investors to Residential Solar Projects? https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/smp-205-revolutionizing-solar-finance-how-sunraise/id1441876259?i=1000702871242   SMP 194:  2025 Solar Outlook https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-194-2025-solar-outlook/   SMP 176:  REplus takeaways https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-176-replus-takeaways/   SMP 166: Residential Solar Trends https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-166-residential-solar-trends/    SMP 150: How SunRaise Capital is innovating residential solar financing? https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-150-how-sunraise-capital-is-innovating-residential-solar-financing/    Solar Maverick Episode 147:  RE+ Takeaways https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-147-re-conference-takeaways/    Solar Maverick Episode 139: Opportunities and Challenges with the PJM Solar Market https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14GHBkqcqo    Solar Maverick Episode 134: 2023 Solar Predictions https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-134-2023-solar-predictations/   SMP 131:  How Technology and Software are innovating the Solar Industry? https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-131-how-technology-and-software-is-innovating-the-solar-industry/    SMP 100: US Residential Solar, Storage, and Electric Vehicle Trends https://solarmaverick.podbean.com/e/smp-100-us-residential-solar-storage-and-electric-vehicles-trends/    SMP 74: Impact on COVID-19 on Residential Solar https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/smp-74-impacts-of-covid-19-on-residential-solar/id1441876259?i=1000475840259      SMP 58:  Residential Solar Financing and Other Interesting Topics https://podcasts.apple.com/tc/podcast/smp-58-residential-solar-financing-other-interesting/id1441876259?i=1000459212910    SMP 20:  The Solar Intrapreneur Story:  How Nate helped IGS become one of the biggest solar asset owners in the US https://podcasts.apple.com/tc/podcast/smp-20-solar-intrapreneur-story-how-nate-helped-igs/id1441876259?i=1000432329129    

I'm Nicholas Gordon, host of the Asian Review of Books podcast, done in partnership with the New Books Network. On this show, we interview authors writing in, around, and about the Asia-Pacific region. How do you tell the story of India–not just the modern-day country, but the whole region of South Asia, home to over two billion people? Historian Audrey Truschke's newest book, India: 5,000 Years of History on the Subcontinent (Princeton UP, 2025), starts at the very beginning: the rise of the Indus Valley Civilization, of which we still know frustratingly little. Her book covers millennia of history–the Vedas, Ashoka, the rise of Buddhism and Islam, the Mughals, the Marathas, the Company, and then newly independent India. Audrey Truschke is Professor of South Asian History at Rutgers University in Newark, New Jersey. Her research focuses on the cultural, imperial, and intellectual history of medieval and early modern India as well as the politics of history in modern times. She is the author of four books. London-based business and culture journalist Prarthana Prakash joins me on the show today as a guest host. Find her on Linkedin. You can find more reviews, excerpts, interviews, and essays at The Asian Review of Books, including its review of India: 5,000 Years of History on the Subcontinent. Follow on Twitter at @BookReviewsAsia. Nicholas Gordon is an editor for a global magazine, and a reviewer for the Asian Review of Books. He can be found on Twitter at @nickrigordon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Dimino is fascinated with Commissioner Pernetti's idea of pooling college football media rights. If it were up to American Conference president Tim Pernetti, everyone in college athletics could benefit from pooling media rights.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Nicholas Gordon, host of the Asian Review of Books podcast, done in partnership with the New Books Network. On this show, we interview authors writing in, around, and about the Asia-Pacific region. How do you tell the story of India–not just the modern-day country, but the whole region of South Asia, home to over two billion people? Historian Audrey Truschke's newest book, India: 5,000 Years of History on the Subcontinent (Princeton UP, 2025), starts at the very beginning: the rise of the Indus Valley Civilization, of which we still know frustratingly little. Her book covers millennia of history–the Vedas, Ashoka, the rise of Buddhism and Islam, the Mughals, the Marathas, the Company, and then newly independent India. Audrey Truschke is Professor of South Asian History at Rutgers University in Newark, New Jersey. Her research focuses on the cultural, imperial, and intellectual history of medieval and early modern India as well as the politics of history in modern times. She is the author of four books. London-based business and culture journalist Prarthana Prakash joins me on the show today as a guest host. Find her on Linkedin. You can find more reviews, excerpts, interviews, and essays at The Asian Review of Books, including its review of India: 5,000 Years of History on the Subcontinent. Follow on Twitter at @BookReviewsAsia. Nicholas Gordon is an editor for a global magazine, and a reviewer for the Asian Review of Books. He can be found on Twitter at @nickrigordon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm Nicholas Gordon, host of the Asian Review of Books podcast, done in partnership with the New Books Network. On this show, we interview authors writing in, around, and about the Asia-Pacific region. How do you tell the story of India–not just the modern-day country, but the whole region of South Asia, home to over two billion people? Historian Audrey Truschke's newest book, India: 5,000 Years of History on the Subcontinent (Princeton UP, 2025), starts at the very beginning: the rise of the Indus Valley Civilization, of which we still know frustratingly little. Her book covers millennia of history–the Vedas, Ashoka, the rise of Buddhism and Islam, the Mughals, the Marathas, the Company, and then newly independent India. Audrey Truschke is Professor of South Asian History at Rutgers University in Newark, New Jersey. Her research focuses on the cultural, imperial, and intellectual history of medieval and early modern India as well as the politics of history in modern times. She is the author of four books. London-based business and culture journalist Prarthana Prakash joins me on the show today as a guest host. Find her on Linkedin. You can find more reviews, excerpts, interviews, and essays at The Asian Review of Books, including its review of India: 5,000 Years of History on the Subcontinent. Follow on Twitter at @BookReviewsAsia. Nicholas Gordon is an editor for a global magazine, and a reviewer for the Asian Review of Books. He can be found on Twitter at @nickrigordon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/south-asian-studies

Meet Tricia Copeland. She is an award-winning author of books for youth and young adults. Mostly she writes fantasy books, but as we learn during this episode, she also does write some romance books.   Tricia says that as a child she hated writing. Even so, she went to school and eventually she went to college where she received a degree in Microbiology. She also attained a Master's degree. She then went to work for a chemical company. After four years she found herself beginning a journey of technical writing and writing patterns and supporting materials.   After a few years Tricia became a stay-at-home-mom for a time. She tells us how she loved to tell stories and entertain her children.   We learn how she wrote her first fiction book series in 2015-16 about her time facing anorexia. In real life, she faced this and overcame it. She then began writing fantasy youth books and realized not only that she could write, but that she did not hate writing at all. She has written several series and has plans for more.     About the Guest:   Tricia Copeland is the critically acclaimed and award-winning author of Kingdom of Embers, To be Fae Queen, Lovelock Ones, and Azreya, Aztec Priestess, and dozens of other titles. She is the host of the Finding the Magic Book Podcast who weaves magical stories about love, courage, and finding your passion.   Tricia began her author journey with a women's fiction series, the Being Me series, which is an adaptation of her experience with anorexia. Afterwards she quickly pivoted to her favorite genre, fantasy. Her young adult fantasy series highlight themes including resilience, perseverance, faith, loyalty, trust, friendship, family, and love. They include the Kingdom Journals and Realm Chronicles series that find witches, vampires, and fae fighting an evil spirit determined to end them all. She tempers the high stakes drama in these books with her fun rom coms in the Perfect romance series.   Tricia Copeland believes in finding magic. She thinks magic infuses every aspect of our lives, whether it is the magic of falling in love, discovering a new passion, seeing a beautiful sunset, or reading a book that transports us to another world. An avid runner and Georgia native, Tricia now lives with her family and four-legged friends in Colorado. Find all her titles including contemporary romance, now penned under Maria Jane, young adult fantasy, and dystopian fiction at www.triciacopeland.com.   Ways to connect with Tricia:   https://triciacopeland.com https://www.facebook.com/TriciaCopelandAuthor/ https://www.instagram.com/authortriciacopeland/ https://twitter.com/tcbrzostowicz https://www.tiktok.com/@triciacopelandauthor https://www.youtube.com/@triciacopelandauthor https://www.amazon.com/stores/Tricia-Copeland/author/B00YHN5Q4G https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/14055439.Tricia_Copeland https://www.bookbub.com/authors/tricia-copeland     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.     Michael Hingson ** 01:17 Well, hello everyone. We're really glad to have you here, wherever you may happen to be listening in from. We're really glad that you're listening to unstoppable mindset. I'm your host, Michael hingson, and our guest today is Tricia Copeland. Tricia is a prolific author. I use that word absolutely without any any concern, a prolific author of children's books, especially in the fantasy world. So she has been doing this a while and and also has an interesting story just of her life to tell. So we're going to go into all of that and delve in and see where we go. So Tricia, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Tricia Copeland ** 02:05 Thank you, Michael, I appreciate you having me, and I do want to make a little edit to that intro. Okay, go ahead. My books are young adult to New Adult books, so ages 13 plus mostly, all right,   Michael Hingson ** 02:19 so young adult to new adult. All right, that's fair. So how do you feel that your books fall into the range of things like the Harry Potter series and so on, sort of the same age groups,   Tricia Copeland ** 02:40 right? Genre adjacent, I have a series, The Kingdom Journal series, which includes three witches that have to break a curse on the witch lines. So the witches have to find each other as well as figure out how to break the curse using various forms of magic. So not really the same as Harry Potter, but definitely with with the witches, and the kind of contemporary world that Harry Potter is. But actually, I won't say that, because I haven't I think Harry Potter is mostly in the contemporary world, right? I didn't read all the books. I have to admit that he's   Michael Hingson ** 03:18 somewhat in the contemporary world, but, but I was thinking more of from a standpoint of the same type of age group.   Tricia Copeland ** 03:25 Yes, I think a younger reader. I think people started reading Harry Potter maybe around 10 or 11. And these books have older teenagers to start, age 1718, so 13 Plus is a good indicator. I think the other   Michael Hingson ** 03:42 thing I would observe about Harry Potter is that there are a lot of people who aren't necessarily teenagers or young adults, including me, who have read them and enjoyed them. I think that that Harry Potter certainly brought an interesting dimension to reading for teenagers especially, and hopefully young adults, because a lot of people did catch on to them, and they they had a great theme, and you do some of the same sorts of things by virtue of the fact of what you're writing and who you're writing it for,   Tricia Copeland ** 04:17 right? They definitely caught adult eyes and hearts and minds too   Michael Hingson ** 04:23 well, tell us somewhat about the early Trisha growing up and so on. Love to learn a little bit more about you, and then we can talk about whatever we feel is relevant to talk about the early Tricia,   Tricia Copeland ** 04:35 right? Well, I grew up in rural South Georgia, small town in south Georgia, and always loved reading and hiking and the outdoors, and very quickly, knew that maybe I didn't want to be in a small town forever. So I went to college in Atlanta, and I got a degree in microbiology, and from there, I got a master's. Degree, and I started my career in Central Research and Development at a chemical company, a large chemical company. So I was looking at making chemicals from microbes. And that was very exciting. That was my dream job that I'd always wanted. So that was very cool to be able to achieve that goal, and I actually didn't like writing until I started doing more technical writing with papers and patents.   Michael Hingson ** 05:29 Technical writing can be boring, but people could make it more exciting than oftentimes they do. I would say I've had to do some of it. I understand   Tricia Copeland ** 05:39 well, you have to like the topic, right? If you don't like the topic, you're not going to like the paper,   Michael Hingson ** 05:45 right? But also, I think that a lot of technical writers write and it's all very factual, but I think even in technical writing, it would be better if writers could do some things to draw in readers. And I've always felt that about textbooks. For example, my master's degree and bachelor's degree are in physics, and I've always maintained that the the physics people who write these books, who are oftentimes fairly substantial characters in in the genre, if you will, or in the field, could do a lot more to interest people in science and physics by rather than just doing these technical books, telling some stories along the way, and bringing people in and making people relate more to the topic. And they don't do that like I think at least that they should.   Tricia Copeland ** 06:36 I guess that can be said, maybe for every technical Yeah. Area,   Michael Hingson ** 06:43 yeah, it would be nice if technical writers spend a little bit of time, but of course, then the other side of it is that the industry doesn't want that. So what do you   Tricia Copeland ** 06:54 do? It may be a catch 22 on that one   Michael Hingson ** 06:56 might be, but that's okay. So how long did you stay working at the tech at the chemical companies and so on?   Tricia Copeland ** 07:06 I was in the lab for four years, and then I moved into the patent Legal Group. So I began my career as a Patent Agent, and now that's what I do for a living. My day job is that I help clients draft and file their patent applications.   Michael Hingson ** 07:22 So you have your own business doing that. I do, yes, oh,   Tricia Copeland ** 07:28 well, I write by day and I write by night.   Michael Hingson ** 07:32 Yeah, well, that can be pretty exciting, though. You get all sorts of interesting things to write about. I   Tricia Copeland ** 07:40 do I meet a lot of cool people that are inventing cool things.   Michael Hingson ** 07:44 So here's the question, do you ever find that what you write about during the day influences you, and you want to use some of that, or the general concepts of some of that, at night, when you're doing your your fiction writing?   Tricia Copeland ** 07:58 I haven't done that yet, I did write one dystopian fiction about a viral pandemic, and that touched on a little bit of my background in microbiology and genetics, but not anything that my clients have done   Michael Hingson ** 08:19 well. So you got into the patent field when you when you started doing that initially, were you doing it for a company, or did you just leap out on your own and start to have your own business?   Speaker 1 ** 08:30 Yes, I was doing that for a company. Okay? And how long did you do that? I was at that company   Tricia Copeland ** 08:35 about a year and a half. And at the time, we lived in Pennsylvania and outside of Philly. So then we had a job change, and we moved to Denver, so I took a little time off to be with my kids before I started my business.   Michael Hingson ** 08:53 So how long ago did you start the business?   Speaker 1 ** 08:57 In 2012 so 13 years doing it a while? Wow,   Michael Hingson ** 09:01 okay, and obviously you're having some success because you're still doing it.   Tricia Copeland ** 09:05 I am. Yes, I love helping my clients, and feel like I can definitely give them a value add   Michael Hingson ** 09:14 if you're not giving something away. What's probably the most interesting patent that you helped somebody work on attaining   Tricia Copeland ** 09:24 I will say, I worked with an inventor a year ago, and amazing man, he had had his career in education and teaching, and he developed a set of blocks to help people or Help kids. I should say, learn the parts of speech so you could put the together, the blocks, whether it was a subject, verb, pronoun, noun, adjective, adverb, and I learned parts of speech that I never knew existed from helping them with this application, and I was very excited. To help him get his patent. That's kind of cool.   Michael Hingson ** 10:04 Yeah, I am fair. I'm not sure I know all the parts of speech, but I remember being involved in high school well and in elementary school and diagramming sentences and learning a lot about the different or a number of the different parts of speech. Not sure I necessarily remember all of them extremely well, so I probably split infinitives and well, what do you do?   Tricia Copeland ** 10:28 Yes, I hated sentence structures.   Michael Hingson ** 10:35 Well, so what got you started then, since you were writing patents for people and so on, and helping people in securing patents. What got you then started in dealing with fiction writing, right?   Tricia Copeland ** 10:49 Well, when my kids were very young, I was a stay at home mom, and most of my days were spent chasing them around, occupying them, entertaining them, shuttling them from one place to another. So I realized in the evenings I was bored. I did my mind didn't have enough to occupy it. And I was about, I think it was about 38 and, you know, looking at my 40 year old birthday and thinking, huh, well, and I maybe it was like my 20 year high school reunion. I don't know why it coincide coincided, but I started thinking about my early college years I developed anorexia, and thinking about that time in my life and how poignant it was that I was able to recover from that disease and really gain some life skills from that experience. So I started a story that was a fictionalized account of my experience with anorexia and recovering for anorexia. So my first series, called the being me series, is a four book series about a character named Amanda who develops anorexia and then is able to recover.   Michael Hingson ** 12:01 So what caused if you understand, or, man, I don't know a lot about anorexia, Anorexia, and probably have some misconceptions about what I'm about to ask, but what, what caused it? Why did you develop that condition?   Tricia Copeland ** 12:16 Well, there's a lot of I mean, it happens differently for a lot of people, I think anorexia is a lot about control and having control over your environment. And I got there was a number of factors that I was depressed and not happy about not feeling like I was achieving, maybe what I should be achieving, and instead of someone might have turned to alcohol or drugs to alleviate those stressful feelings. I channeled all that into Okay? Well, if I'm just thin and if I just look good enough, then everything will be fine. And obviously, once your brain starts to get in that cycle, it just compounds on itself. You can't stop yourself from thinking that way. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 13:05 and what helped you get out of doing that? Was it writing or what? What really caused you to realize that ain't the way to go?   Tricia Copeland ** 13:16 Yeah, I almost died. That was it very it was a low point. And really, you know, if I didn't do something different, if I didn't let people help me do something different, I would not have made it. So really, you know, a lot of that is like educating people how serious eating disorders are, as well as how helpless sometimes the person that is experiencing them is in being able to help themselves.   Michael Hingson ** 13:48 And you said that this happened somewhat in your your college years.   Tricia Copeland ** 13:53 Yes, I was 20.   Michael Hingson ** 13:56 Were there a lot of pressures were, were people criticizing you in any way that helped contribute to it, or was it sort of really   Tricia Copeland ** 14:04 internally? Part of it was internally. Part of it was, you know, what I thought people's expectations I was in. I was at a engineering school and I was a biology major, so maybe that wasn't the best place for me. Everybody was very high in performing. Yeah, yeah. There are many, many factors, I think, and just my my brain that was not processing things, maybe as realistically as they could have been processed.   Michael Hingson ** 14:33 But what you eventually did about it was to write a series about it, so clearly you were able to move beyond it, and then, if you will, talk about it,   Tricia Copeland ** 14:45 right, right? So I went into inpatient recovery, and then was able to get the help that I needed with therapist and psycho psychiatrist and support groups, and that was a big help. And then, yes, 20 years later, I. Wrote a series about it.   Michael Hingson ** 15:02 Well, that's pretty cool. And again, it's I'm always one who admires people who are able to and willing to talk about things. I went to an event last year was the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival, and the Cherry Blossom Festival, which happens every April, is a celebration of American history, and they'll bring people in who have some relationship to an historic event, or who have relatives who were so for example, the great grandson of President Grant was at this event, but one of the people who was there was a former secret service agent who rode in the car behind John Kennedy when he was in Dallas and assassinated, and it took him 45 years to get to the point where he could come out of his experiences enough to start to talk about it, and I just have always admired people who do that. For me, being in the World Trade Center on September 11 and getting out, I never really viewed it as all that traumatic, but I guess it was, but my way to deal with it was, and I realized it much later, but we had so many newspaper reporters who wanted to know about the blind guy who got out of the World Trade Center. I talked about it, I mean, answered everyone's questions. And that was ironically, I love to pick on the media, but ironically, it was the media that really probably helped me move forward from September 11 the most.   Tricia Copeland ** 16:41 Yeah, I can imagine that was a lot of processing that you were able to do, as you talked about it.   Michael Hingson ** 16:48 People asked all sorts of questions, some really good questions, some not so good questions. And we got to observe all sorts of different types of press people. We had one Italian film crew who came to our house, there were 13 people, most of whom didn't really seem to do a whole lot, but they were there. And then there was a Japanese crew that came. And I think there were two people. It's just amazing what you see and what you learn. And for me and my wife, both now my late wife, but both, both of us love to observe and study and really think about what all these people are doing and how they do it, and we use it as ways to help us learn more about things, if you will, studying and being a student. I think of life as always an important thing,   Tricia Copeland ** 17:39 right, yeah, and I guess everybody reacts different to trauma and how you can process that everybody needs a little bit different. But yes, if you could look at things through a learning lens, that can definitely help too.   Michael Hingson ** 17:52 So you wrote the being me series. How many books are in that series? Four books, four books. Okay, and so, how long ago did you write those?   Tricia Copeland ** 18:03 I published them between 2015 and 2016   Michael Hingson ** 18:07 Okay, did you self publish or I do? Yes, you still do. Okay, great. Well, all right, and then what? What made you decide to then continue and start going into sort of teenage and so on, fiction and fantasy and so on, right?   Tricia Copeland ** 18:31 I realized that I just loved writing, and it was something that I didn't want to stop doing. So when I looked around for my next genre to write in, it was very obviously fantasy. For me. I read fantasy from a very young age. I loved Merlin and King authors legends and the Lord of the Rings and all of those books as a young person and a young adult, and that's just what I wanted to write. So my first book, interestingly enough, my editor sent it back to me and said, This is not fantastical enough. You need to make it more paranormal. So it took a minute to make that switch. What   Michael Hingson ** 19:15 book was that   Tricia Copeland ** 19:16 that is drops of sunshine and it is mirrored off an experience I had. I was a camp counselor at a camp for the blind when I was in I guess after my freshman year of college, and the campers in my story have these extra sensory skills where they can read people's minds. That was the paranormal aspect of my book, and that's not known in the beginning the story to our main character, and then she discovers that these kids have this special talent, and that was how my fantasy books started out. Mm, hmm.   Michael Hingson ** 20:00 Then where did it go from   Tricia Copeland ** 20:01 there? Then I jumped into the witches with the kingdom Journal series. I developed a character that was a vampire or is a vampire witch hybrid, and so she has a vampire mother and a witch father, but she doesn't know who her father is. She's never met him. And to make things a little bit harder, vampire witch Hyderabad are not allowed, but either the witch lines or the vampires, so both the vampires and the witches got together and said, these beings are too dangerous. We're not going to allow them in our society. And if she's discovered, then she'll be killed. That was the first character, Alina, and she's and to give her just a little more stress, I put her in a human High School, so now she pretends, you know, can't pretend to be a witch. Can't pretend to be a vampire. She needs to be human too. And, yeah, so that was a really fun book to write, and that's the series where the trinity of witches has to come together, so she has to find the other two witches of the Trinity, and they each get to tell their story in the books too. So that's why it's called the kingdom journals. It's a little bit of a journal format, so each character gets to tell their own story as well as telling the overall plot line of the series. How   Michael Hingson ** 21:19 do you come up with these characters and create these stories? I mean, it's very imaginative. I wouldn't have thought of it. How do you, and I'm sure other people say that, but how do you create the characters? How does all that   Tricia Copeland ** 21:32 work? Yeah, I set out, funny enough, I set out to write a vampire series that was my vampire is my favorite fantasy characters. And I thought, Okay, I'm gonna write a vampire series. It's not you don't want to do it too far out from what most people write or most people think of vampires. But I wanted my vampires to be a little bit different from the other vampires and other series. So I had this idea of making the vampire witch hybrid and her set in a human High School, and what would that look like? And then the challenge? I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with the challenge, but somehow I came up with this curse, and the curse was on the witch line, so it very quickly morphed into more of a witch book and the magical side of things, but the vampire characters are still there, and I explore them a little bit, although not as much as the witches.   Michael Hingson ** 22:27 Do you find that the characters essentially tell you what they want to be and who they are and why they do what they do. How much are the characters involved in your writing process? I've heard other authors say that that in some of the fiction things, the characters really create the story   Tricia Copeland ** 22:47 they do. I feel like my books are very character driven. So how I usually start with the idea for a character and think of their personality, their challenges, what I want, what themes I want to show with that character and then build the world sort of around that character. So it shows those themes and those character traits and what they're overcoming, either in their personal life or in their their physical life, right? But I do have characters that go off script. In the second book, kingdom of darkness. I have a character who we're not sure if he's a good guy or a bad guy. The main character thinks that he may be trying to delude her into thinking he's good when he's not really good. But I wrote him so well, like he was so nice that I couldn't make him a villain. So he became, I rewrote the story a little bit. I'd written it in my mind, I guess, but I rewrote it a little bit. So he did end up being a villain. And then somehow he got his whole own book, so he gets to star in his whole book after that.   Michael Hingson ** 23:54 And does he stay a villain? No, he   Tricia Copeland ** 23:57 didn't stay. He didn't was never, I mean, I kind of wrote it so the main character thought he was a villain, but in the end, I didn't make him a villain.   Michael Hingson ** 24:06 Well, I like books like that. I yeah, I think that most creatures are generally pretty nice.   Tricia Copeland ** 24:14 We would hope so,   Michael Hingson ** 24:16 although I don't know that that bears necessarily are overly generally nice to people, but, you know, who knows? Yeah, that doesn't mean they're evil either. Well, no, yeah.   Tricia Copeland ** 24:27 I mean, they're just living their life, right? That's they need their food sources. Is just like we need our food sources. So   Michael Hingson ** 24:35 I'd rather not be their food source, though, but that's okay, right?   Tricia Copeland ** 24:39 Yeah, and I don't know. I do struggle with, like, evil or antagonistic characters, because I'm, I don't like the idea that there's a character that is purely evil for no reason. So that is, that's always a grapple in an author's mind. I think,   Michael Hingson ** 24:56 well, and you know, I'll go back to Harry Potter. Modern Of course, we have Lord waldemart, who was definitely evil. But even so, the way she created the characters and the way she crafted the books, which probably in some ways, are similar, just in a process of what you do, it's not necessarily overly graphically evil. Even if there's evil, it isn't so graphic that you you you become totally adverse or against it. Evil or bad things are there, but it's all on how you present it. That's why I like books that are essentially puzzles, if you will, because they leave a lot of things to your imagination, and they give you the ability to as a reader, think about it, but as a writer, you also are essentially drawing the reader in to where you want the reader to go, but, but they're puzzles, rather than just some graphic thing, talking about all these horrible, mean, nasty things that a character may do.   Tricia Copeland ** 26:08 That's true, and it's all perspective, right? So the quote, unquote villain in my series is out to destroy all the vampires. But then you meet vampires that are good vampires, right? And you think, Huh, well, maybe this one vampire shouldn't be destroyed, because this vampire is not acting in a mean or hurtful way. So many sides to those questions,   Michael Hingson ** 26:33 yeah. Well, so the Kingdom series. How many books are in that one?   Tricia Copeland ** 26:38 There are four books in the main series, and there's a prequel to that series, okay?   Michael Hingson ** 26:45 And then what happened? What happened after that series?   Tricia Copeland ** 26:48 So in the finale, kingdom of war, my witches were going to have this huge battle against a vampire army that the evil witch created to, you know, battle the good witches. Yeah, she put which souls in the vampires. So that made them sort of like super vampires. But anyway, my witches needed an army, and I thought who would be a good character to be, to have an army that can come help the witches. So, yeah, the beings I thought of were fairies, and I created a queen Titania, is her name, who had an army who would come help the witches battle these vampire witch soul hybrid be. And when I created her, she just kind of took on her own character, and I quickly morphed that into what was her backstory, what were struggles? Where was she living? Where would the spay army come from? And that is what kind of launched my realm chronicle series, that the finale is coming out next month. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 28:10 that's that's pretty cool, and that that answers, again, the question we talked about earlier. The character actually took over, if you will, the writing, which is always cool, because that really shows how deeply you're invested in the characters and you let them have their voices, right?   Tricia Copeland ** 28:26 And I couldn't really give up the characters from my kingdom Journal series. They not, you know, not to give too much away, but they do complete their first quest and but this evil witch who's trying to destroy the vampires is still out there somewhere, so I couldn't completely let them go. So the witches from my kingdom Journal series come into the round Chronicles series, and the fairies and the witches are continuing to help each other.   Michael Hingson ** 28:56 Well, that's cool. Well, it's kind of neat to even though it's a new series, and I assume you can read one without reading the other, but still, it's neat that you, you follow on and help to craft and expand the world.   Tricia Copeland ** 29:11 It's been a lot of fun. And I, you know, selfishly, I didn't want to let go the characters. I felt like they had a little bit of story left in them, and I was able to do that through the round chronicle series. And yeah, it it was a lot of fun for me to   Michael Hingson ** 29:26 write. And now, of course, the question is, will there be a lot more story with them, which is part of the adventure that will come next? Right?   Tricia Copeland ** 29:33 Yes, I'm, I'm thinking of that. I put my characters through a lot. So after I finished the finale, I felt like I just had to let them rest. I'm not really sure if I will continue with those same characters or or either pull out some different characters from that book to have their own stories. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 29:54 well, it's, it's going to be an adventure. No question about. It   30:00 definitely so   Michael Hingson ** 30:04 with your books. Do you have themes in your books? That is, are you? Are you trying to convey messages? Do you have themes and things that you want people to think about as they go through reading your books?   Tricia Copeland ** 30:16 I do. I feel like I like that in the book, and so I kind of embed that in my books too, but it's really more about what is the character grappling with. Not only, like I said in their physical world, maybe Queen Titania is the first female queen in her realm, and some of the old guard, other monarchs are not sure that a female should be able to rule, So that's sort of an out, outside challenge. But she also has inner conflict and challenges where she's not really trusting that she really can do it and she's really supposed to do it, and should she, you know, hand the crown to someone else who may be older or wiser or and so it does she have faith in herself. You know, would sort of be that theme there. And so each of the books have, I mean, it's not like I say, hey, the theme of this book is you need to believe in yourself, yeah, but just showing that the character arcs and how they overcome their challenges.   Michael Hingson ** 31:22 How do you again create those? How do you work those in what? What's the process that allows you to to put those themes in and and add them to the book and bring that value out? Right?   Tricia Copeland ** 31:37 I guess it's just how, the way I the challenges I choose to put in front of my characters and showing them fail at times, and showing them I do write first person, so you're getting a very up close view of what the character is thinking and feeling at all times. So I think that helps with a little bit of that, knowing that the character is struggling with whatever their um, XYZ, inner, inner turmoil that they're struggling with. And then, you know, just having other characters bounce things off of them, because the character themselves might not realize, hey, I I get anxious when I'm not in control of situations. So, you know, somebody might say, Hey, you're doing this again, stop.   Michael Hingson ** 32:29 That's why we have editors,   32:30 right,   Michael Hingson ** 32:33 and other people to help well, so you are you, but you clearly talk with your characters and you let them have a voice, which is, I think, something that adds a really great dimension to the writing that you do. And I think it's very important to do that.   Tricia Copeland ** 32:51 I hope so. I have very detailed character sheets for each of my characters. I create much bigger back stories than, probably, than really makes it into the books, just to be able to know, like, how my characters will react in situations, what their growth needs to be, where areas that I want to show that growth, and what's most important in their values, And how would they react to all the different challenges?   Michael Hingson ** 33:24 What caused you to bring fairies into it again? I think that's pretty imaginative. You were writing about witches of vampire. Fairies are are different. How did that come about?   Tricia Copeland ** 33:34 Honestly, I was at a book event, and a person was walking around with these postcards, and they were trying to get authors to write a short story for an anthology, and it had to be a fantasy genre, and it had to be a character with a mental health challenge. But the image on the postcard was of a fairy, and she was hunched in a meadow in these grasses, and she looked kind of anxious or scared, maybe even a little timid or worried. And I thought, Oh, that's a cool image. It was very striking with the green grass and her fairy wings and just her eyes were like had just a lot of feeling behind them. So it caught my eye. I never thought I'd write about fairies. I was looking for the Army for my witches, and I thought, well, you know, the fairies could be like the characters the witches go to. So it was just kind of happenstance that I happened to see this fairy character on a postcard and think, Huh, I could, you know, the fairies could be the answer.   Michael Hingson ** 34:44 And turns out, they were, they were Yes. So are all fairies girls? No, okay.   Tricia Copeland ** 34:51 I mean, fairies are much like humans in my world, except that my fairies have wings. They in. Middle Earth, which is just below earth. So they share our same bedrock. It kind of mirrors our Earth in my world. And they have rings where they can come back and forth between the fae and the human realm, and they live in our contemporary times. I like those themes of there might be witches, there might be vampires, there might be fairies that walk alongside us every day, and we don't know it.   Michael Hingson ** 35:24 And do they know Bill Bo Baggins, since we're talking about Middle Earth, just   Tricia Copeland ** 35:29 they do, well, they might have read the book. I don't know that they met him personally.   Michael Hingson ** 35:35 Yeah. Well, that's, you know, another, another story, but it's but it's cool. What other kinds of characters are you thinking of for maybe future books, outside of witches, vampires and fairies,   Tricia Copeland ** 35:49 right? So I won't give too much away, but no, in order to perform some of the spells that they need to perform in, I guess in two of my books in this series, to be a Fae legend, which is the third book of the series, and to be a Fae which is the finale, The last book of the series. My witches and fairies need to perform these spells. So they need a great amount of power or energy, and they have to assemble different kinds of beings. And in the finale, they have to assemble 12 different kinds of beings. If you try to make a list of different kinds of being, you actually in ones that the witches and the fairies could find in the human realm, like so I had an elf and the werewolves and nicks and selkies like so the Nicks are shape shifters that shift into fish, and then the selkies are shape shifters that shift into now I'm blanking not walruses seals, sorry. So yeah, I had to go find all these different characters. So all of those characters are in this final book, and I I'm thinking of maybe some of those characters that can form a new series.   Michael Hingson ** 37:11 So are all trolls, mean, nasty creatures, or, do you know yet,   Tricia Copeland ** 37:16 in my series, they are depicted as that? Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 37:21 how about gnomes? I don't have any gnomes. Well, there's another one for you to look at down the line. Might be. It might be interesting to see where that goes. Of course. Yep, so you but you have a variety of characters, and I think it's it's great when you have a rich culture of a lot of different characters. And of course, there are all sorts of potentials for conflict or for different creatures to work learn to work together too,   Tricia Copeland ** 37:56 right? The Fay historically have not worked with other beings or creatures. They very much kept to themselves and had primary purpose. They think their primary purpose is to protect the humans from all the evil spirits. So that has been their focus historically, and they've shunned other groups of beings based on whether they thought they were descended from the Creator, who's sort of like their god or the creator or the evil one, right? So the Fae believed that the vampires and werewolves, for instance, were created by the evil ones, so they shouldn't associate with those types of beings, and there's a lot of learning in there. I guess you could say it, are we going to partner with these beings, and how? What does that look like? And is that really okay? And can we choose a different path than what our predecessors have chosen?   Michael Hingson ** 38:59 And I guess it's sort of pretty clearly, is that they somewhat do that.   Tricia Copeland ** 39:06 Yes, they do. And Titania, our main character, is very much the Herald for that type of behavior and that type of community and that type of acceptance   Michael Hingson ** 39:23 well. So your next year, your book will be out in July, and then where do you go from there?   Tricia Copeland ** 39:31 Yes, so like I said, I'm tossing around ideas for fantasy characters. I also write in the romance genre, so generally, I'll write a fantasy, and then I'll write a romance. I'll switch back and forth between writing those. The past year and a half, I guess I've been focusing on finishing this fantasy series, so I have two romances now queued up that I'm excited about writing, and we'll get to those first. I   Michael Hingson ** 39:58 think, hmm. What romances Have you written already?   Tricia Copeland ** 40:03 So after the being me series, I started the perfect romance series, which the first book was a little bit different from a typical romance. It has five parts, and it's the same main character, but based on decisions at different times in her life, her life goes off in a different way. So you see her go to France and fall in love with the French man, or you see her take a job in New York City and fall in love with a investment banker. And so you see her in different stages of her life, having made different decisions, but still finding happily ever after. So that kind of kicked off that. And somebody, somebody called it speculative romance at one time, and it's more like make your own story or choose your own ending type of book. But from there, I initially thought I would write like a full book showing each of the happily ever afters with that same character, but I wrote one book showing one happily ever after scenario, but then decided that I would look at all of her friends lives so they all met in college, and they were in this one sorority together. And so I write different books showing the different friends love stories. So I've written perfect. Was the first one perfect, always with Chloe. And then Brie book is a close as close to perfect. And this is still set in Lexington, Kentucky. And then the last one is perfect office pack, which is a enemies to lovers, office romance.   Michael Hingson ** 41:51 Now, do you put a lot of sex in your books? I   Tricia Copeland ** 41:54 don't know. My books are what's called closed door or fade to black, so you'll see some kissing, but not much more than that,   Michael Hingson ** 42:03 and that's fine. And the reason I asked that question was to get to the whole issue of so many people when they're writing, just have to make everything so graphic. There's got to be all this sex and all this other stuff that they put in them. And my view has always been, is that really necessary? And I gather you, you're essentially saying the same thing. And again, it's like detective stories. I love to read a lot of detective stories, but I like the detective stories most that are puzzles. That is, I want to figure out who done it. I don't need all the graphics of how somebody got murdered, or what happened. It happens. You don't need to put all that graphic stuff in to get to dealing with the puzzle. And it's the same thing with sex. You really need all that. Like a lot of comedians, it's all the shock stuff. They got to have all these horrible words, swear words, and everything else but the best comedians, I think most people, if they really study it, will agree, are the ones that tell stories without all that dirty and sex stuff in it.   Tricia Copeland ** 43:12 And that's what I like to read and what I like to watch, too. But there are definitely people that enjoy different types of books. Yeah, there are, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 43:21 yeah, I hear you, but I, I would prefer to be able to use my imagination in various things. So one of my favorite detective stories or Characters of All Times is Nero Wolfe, written by Rex Stout, because he he writes in a way where you don't see all the graphic and don't need to see any of the graphic to get the entire picture. He describes enough so you know what's going on, but he doesn't deal with it in a way that would How do I put it? Offend anyone?   Tricia Copeland ** 43:59 Right? And I would probably argue that mystery books are would be the hardest to write, I think, because you have to give enough clues throughout so that the reader doesn't think, Oh, I would have never thought that was the villain, but you don't want to put too much in. So it's so obvious who the villain is, right? So I think it's the ways those authors weave those stories are very intricate and thought out and multi layered and impressive to me   Michael Hingson ** 44:34 well. And the reality is that sometimes, and again, I'll use Rex Stout as an example, when you find out who did it, or who the bad person was, and Wolf explains it clearly, all the clues were there, but it would be really hard for you to put it together. Now, there have been a few times where there were things that he didn't tell you, that if you if he had said those. Because during the book, you might have figured it out, but mostly the clues are somewhat there, but it is so subtle that I doubt very many people would figure it out, which   Tricia Copeland ** 45:14 is, yeah, definitely.   Michael Hingson ** 45:17 It makes it so much fun. When that happens, it is. So you're, you're still deciding what you want to do for your next series of books, or what, what the next realm will be, if you will,   Tricia Copeland ** 45:31 in the fantasy genre, yes, I'm still deciding which way to go with my next characters.   Michael Hingson ** 45:38 Yes, right, but you're going to probably do some romances before you go into those. I   Tricia Copeland ** 45:43 am, yes, I was just writing a newsletter to my subscribers. In the last book, I had subscribers pick names for my characters. And so in this book, I thought, You know what? I don't like this character has has only been introduced and very briefly in one of the books, and so she doesn't have a lot of backstory. And I thought, You know what, I can just ask my readers, where do you think she should live? What are her hobbies? What does she like to do? What's her favorite book genre? I thought that would be a lot of fun for my readers to direct some of that.   Michael Hingson ** 46:18 And what kind of answers did you get? Did you get a lot of feedback?   Tricia Copeland ** 46:22 Like I said, I Well, with the names one when? So I'm just sent out the poll today, new one, but for the name ones, yeah, I would. I got like 100 answers. And then I thought, you know, next time, I won't do the names, because sometimes names are so personal and can vote like a lot of emotion that people get very heated about people's names.   Michael Hingson ** 46:47 Now, do mostly women answer? Do you get both sexes answering your questions? It is   Tricia Copeland ** 46:52 mostly women, but definitely, maybe 10% male, I would think. And actually, I feel like I have more interaction, and that's mostly on the fantasy side, but I feel like I actually have sometimes more interaction. Maybe, I don't know, maybe this get more passionate about fantasy?   Michael Hingson ** 47:13 Yeah, probably so. But you know, there's, there's something to be said for reading a good romance book. I like cozy mysteries as well, and a lot of those are really combinations of mysteries and romance, and the mystery part is oftentimes more straightforward, but it's just the whole book and the putting the entire book together that makes it so much fun.   Tricia Copeland ** 47:41 Yeah, those can be a quick, you know, kind of feel good read. I yeah for that genre, yeah, and   Michael Hingson ** 47:49 there's nothing wrong with that. It's good to have feel good books occasionally,   Tricia Copeland ** 47:54 too. I am all for feel good everything, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 47:58 Well, when I travel, I like to read on airplanes, and I like not to work and do reading that's really related to work, because going and coming from events is really the time that I get to have the most down time once I get somewhere I am on until I am on the airplane coming home. And so it is the way to relax. So I enjoy reading things that will allow me to relax when I'm going and coming from trips or from events, which is so important, I think, to be able to do and I think people should do more of that. It's always worth slowing down some and really letting your mind just wander.   Tricia Copeland ** 48:38 Yeah, plane trips are my favorite, because that's I do the same thing. I read on the plane, and I listen to audio books mostly if I'm home, when I'm exercising or when I'm doing chores. But to be able to sit down and read doesn't happen that often.   Michael Hingson ** 48:56 What do you like to read most from audio books? What? What genre?   Tricia Copeland ** 48:59 Um, exactly what I write, fantasy and romance.   Michael Hingson ** 49:03 What's your favorite fantasy books   Tricia Copeland ** 49:06 I just finished, and I'm so behind because I don't read fantasy when I'm writing fantasy. So I just finished Holly Black's, the folk of the air series, the cruel prince, I think the cool prince, the wicked king and the queen of nothing. I think they're the three books in that series. So that was really good series. And I'm writing Emily's wild encyclopedia fairies right now. So I just started that get   Michael Hingson ** 49:33 a little bit more information on those fairies for a future book. Right? That's that's kind of important to do. So do you produce with I've asked a number of people this, and I'll ask you, do you arrange for audio books to be produced from your series?   Tricia Copeland ** 49:53 I do both my fantasy series, The Kingdom journals, as well as the realm Chronicles. I have audio books. Four. I'm a little bit behind in the realm Chronicles. My Narrator had some health problems, so I'm switching narrators. But my new narrator, Tina walls, wolsen craft, yes, I think that's how you pronounce her last name, she will be working on the fourth book in the realm Chronicles series in September. So I'm hoping that will come out in October, and that will be my, my eighth audio book.   Michael Hingson ** 50:23 And where can people get the audio books?   Tricia Copeland ** 50:26 So the kingdom Journal series is on all platforms, and then the realm chronicle series, the newest series, is on Audible. Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 50:37 so and again under your name for the author?   Tricia Copeland ** 50:42 Yep. Tricia Copeland, author, the Kingdom Journal series. The first two books are female character, so and now I'm blank. I can't believe I'm blanking on her name. It'll come to me in a minute. Yeah. So I had a female narrator for the first two books, and then the second two books are male Lee main characters. So Dan Delgado did the narration on those and then Jillian Yetter, who was the most amazing narrator for Titania. She even had pink hair, just just like Titania does, a hold of the the cover of the book has Titania is pink hair. So that was really fun to work with her, and we won an award for the second book in that series, to be a fake guardian   Michael Hingson ** 51:26 in audio book. Oh, cool. What was the award? It   Tricia Copeland ** 51:29 was independent book publisher Association, young adult fantasy, Silver Award.   Michael Hingson ** 51:35 Oh, cool. That's exciting. It's always good to have awards. Have you run other awards along the way?   Tricia Copeland ** 51:40 I have several Colorado independent book Publishers Association for the first book, kingdom of embers, in the kingdom Journal series, as well as several the global Book Awards for to remember it to be, to be a fake queen, which is the first book in the kingdom journals and as Ray at my Aztec mythology.   Michael Hingson ** 52:06 So how many books have you written all together?   Speaker 1 ** 52:08 Next month's book will be 23 Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 52:13 That is really exciting. Well, I know we're putting in the show notes, the picture of the book cover for the next book. And as I mentioned earlier, if you want to send us other books that you think people ought to read, we'll put those pictures in the the notes as well. I'm glad to have all the pictures you want to share.   Tricia Copeland ** 52:31 I will definitely share them. Thank you. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 52:34 so is there anything else you'd like all of our listeners and viewers to know or to think about going forward,   Tricia Copeland ** 52:42 right? Well, if you go to my website, which is triciacopeland.com,   Michael Hingson ** 52:47 and Tricia is T, R, i, c, I A, Copeland, C, O, P, E, L,   52:53 a n, d, l, a n, d.com.com,   Tricia Copeland ** 52:56 yes, if you go there, and if you just want to get a trial of my books. If you subscribe to my newsletter, then you can read a free short story fantasy as well as a free short story romance.   Michael Hingson ** 53:07 Oh, okay. If people want to reach out to you, what's the best way to do that,   Tricia Copeland ** 53:13 they can reach out on direct message, on social media, or my email is Tricia T, R, i, c, I a@triciacopeland.com   53:21 too. Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 53:24 then people can, can reach out and and they'll, I'm sure, have all sorts of ideas for you.   Tricia Copeland ** 53:31 I love ideas, and I love talking to readers about my books.   Michael Hingson ** 53:36 Yeah, I I've written three, and I love getting comments and feedback from people, because I get new ideas and new thoughts. And mine are really all about helping to inspire people and so on. So it's it's always good when people have their their observations, whatever they are.   54:01 I agree.   Michael Hingson ** 54:03 Well, anyway, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun, and I really value your time being here, and I hope people will reach out and and also, more important, get your books and read your books and review them. One of the most important things that all of us who are authors will tell anyone is, please review the books. Please go to places like Amazon and Reddit and so on and review the books, because those reviews are are viewed and paid attention to by so many people. So giving an author, a great review is always a wonderful thing to do.   Tricia Copeland ** 54:44 We do appreciate those and thank you so much, Michael for having me.   Michael Hingson ** 54:48 Well, it was my pleasure, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching today. We really appreciate it. If you've got any thoughts, I'd love to hear from you, please email me at Michael H i. M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, at access, A, B, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, but also go to our podcast page, www, dot Michael hinkson.com/podcast, you can see all of our podcasts there, but they're also available wherever you're listening to podcasts and and you can find the most anywhere podcasts are available. If you know anyone who ought to be a guest that you think would make a wonderful guest, and you'd like to have them tell their stories and Tricia you as well, I would really appreciate you introducing us, because we're always looking for more people to have on the podcast, and so please don't hesitate to reach out and don't hesitate to provide introductions, but again, give us a five star review here on unstoppable mindset. We value your reviews greatly, and we really appreciate you doing it. So I want to thank you, Tricia again, for being here. This has been fun, and I think it's really important that people do get a great sense of what you're doing, and I think we've done that, and we're really anxious to see where you go from here.   Tricia Copeland ** 56:08 Thank you so much, Michael, I so appreciate it.   Michael Hingson ** 56:15 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Is the breakup of an increasingly polarized America into separate red and blue countries even possible? There is a growing interest in American secession. In February 2023, Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted that "We need a national divorce...We need to separate by red states and blue states." Recent movements like Yes California have called for a national divorce along political lines. A 2023 Axios poll shows that 20 percent of Americans favor a national divorce. These trends show a sincere interest in American secession, and they will likely increase in the aftermath of the 2024 Presidential election. Proponents of secession make three arguments: the two sides have irreconcilable differences; secession is a legal right; and smaller political units are better. Through interviews with secessionist advocates in America, Ryan Griffiths explores the case for why Red America and Blue America should split up. But as The Disunited States shows, these arguments are fundamentally incorrect. Secession is the wrong solution to the problem of polarization. Red and Blue America are not neatly sorted and geographically concentrated. Splitting the two parts would require a dangerous unmixing of the population, one that could spiral into violence and state collapse. Drawing on his expertise on secessionism worldwide, he shows how the process has played out internationally-and usually disastrously. Ultimately, this book will disabuse readers of the belief that secession will fix America's problems. Rather than focus on national divorce as a solution, the better course of action is to seek common ground. Ryan D. Griffiths is a Professor in the Department of Political Science at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, Syracuse University. His research focuses on the dynamics of secession and the study of sovereignty, state systems, and international orders. He teaches on topics related to nationalism, international relations, and international relations theory. Daniel Moran's writing about literature and film can be found on Pages and Frames. He earned his B.A. and M.A. in English from Rutgers University and his Ph.D. in History from Drew University. The author of Creating Flannery O'Connor: Her Critics, Her Publishers, Her Readers, he teaches research and writing and co-hosts the long-running p Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

There are a lot of desserts named after severe weather phenomena, but not all of them are created equal. We asked Tornado Alley's top meteorologist, Gary England, to help us rank some of these desserts, based on the severity of the weather they are named for. In addition to Gary England's dessert rankings, this episode includes a conversation Paul Breslin about how weather affects our tastes. Breslin is a professor with the Department of Nutritional Sciences at Rutgers University. He also works with the Monell Chemical Senses Center, researching taste perception.This episode originally aired on July 27, 2014, and was produced by Dan Pashman and Kristen Meinzer. The Sporkful team now includes Dan Pashman, Emma Morgenstern, Andres O'Hara, Kameel Stanley, and Jared O'Connell. This update was produced by Gianna Palmer. Publishing by Shantel Holder.Every Friday, we reach into our deep freezer and reheat an episode to serve up to you. We're calling these our Reheats. If you have a show you want reheated, send us an email or voice memo at hello@sporkful.com, and include your name, your location, which episode, and why.Transcript available at www.sporkful.com.Right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. Get all your favorite podcasts, more than 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, and live sports coverage with the SiriusXM app.

In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset we get to experience a story of a man who demonstrates what real unstopability is really all about. I hope you will be inspired and that you will learn some good life lessons from what you will hear. Our guest, Kijuan Amey grew up around Durham North Carolina. After completing high school, rather than going to college, circumstances brought him to an Airforce recruiter. He scored quite high on his tests which resulted in his recruiter showing him a list of jobs including working as an in-flight refueling expert. The job was demanding, and it requires significant intelligence. After pondering and speaking with the recruiter Kijuan signed up for the job and spent the next 6 and a half years refueling aircraft in flight.   In May of 2017 Kijuan was struck by a motorcycle and suffered a significant number of major injuries. Of course, his career as a refueling expert ended. He actually spent the next 3 and a half years healing and eventually deciding to move on with his life.   Kijuan describes himself as someone who always likes getting answers and moving forward. This he did as you will discover. You will hear the story of Kijuan Amey in detail. Today he teaches and he is a coach. He also wrote and published a book. What I haven't told you to this point is that one of the things that happened to Kijuan as a result of his injuries is that he lost his eyesight. As he will tell you, however, “I may have lost my sight, but I have not lost my vision”. Kijuan today is a keynote speaker talking to many audiences and helping people to discover how they can move forward with their lives no matter what befalls them.     About the Guest:   Kijuan Amey, the visionary behind Amey Motivation, hails from Durham, NC, where his journey of resilience and success began. After graduating from Southern High School, he dedicated a decade of his life to the US Air Force, achieving the rank of Staff Sergeant as an In-flight Refueling Specialist. Medically retired, he transitioned into academia, earning a degree and founding Amey Motivation LLC. Formerly served as the vice president for the Carolina regional group of the Blinded Veterans Association, Kijuan is also a mentor and ambassador for the Air Force Wounded Warriors program. Beyond his remarkable military career, Kijuan is a man of many talents, boasting over 25 years of drumming expertise, onstage acting, and now, an upcoming bestseller, “Don't Focus on Why Me.” However, life took an unexpected turn on May 5th, 2017, when a motorcycle accident claimed his eyesight. Yet, as Kijuan profoundly states, “I may have lost my sight, but I did not lose my vision.” Now armed with an inspiring story of overcoming adversity, Kijuan has become a motivational force, empowering others to reach their highest potential. Whether addressing a crowd of 1,500 or engaging in one-on-one sessions, Kijuan is well-equipped for any speaking engagement. He's not just a speaker; he's a catalyst for transformation, ready for the task ahead! Contact him at (919) 641-8150 | kijuan@ameymotivation.com | AmeyMotivation.com Ways to connect with Kijuan:   Website: ameymotivation.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kijuan-amey-783889121?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/167F8mGMfR/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kijuanamey?igsh=NmZtNHRqbW1meWNy&utm_source=qr      About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi, everyone. I am Michael hingson, and you are listening and or watching our podcast. Unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And for those who may not really understand all of that, we start with inclusion, because if you talk to diversity people, they typically leave out any discussion of disabilities, and today, especially, that gets to be important, because our guest Kijuan, Amey, is blind, and I, of course, as many of you probably know also, am blind, and so we're going to talk about blind, and who knows what else we'll we'll get into all sorts of adventures. There's another thing that Kijuan and I have in common, and he doesn't even really probably know about it, and that is that in my book thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog, and the triumph of trust at Ground Zero, there's a section called guide dog wisdom. And in the section of guide dog wisdom, number two, the main point of that one is, don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. And that was published in Thunder dog anyway, we'll talk about whatever comes along. But Kijuan, I want to welcome you to doing a stoppable mindset, and thanks for being here. We're glad to have you,   Kijuan Amey ** 02:42 Michael, I truly appreciate you allowing me to come on your platform and share my story.   Michael Hingson ** 02:47 Well, no allowance necessary. It is all all about people conversing and telling their stories and why they do what they do, and showing that they're unstoppable, so that we can show everybody else that they're unstoppable as well, or really ought to consider themselves more unstoppable than they think. But anyway, we're glad you're here, and looking forward to having a great conversation with you. Why don't we start by you going back and telling us kind of about the the early years of Kijuan, the early years of Yeah. Let's start with the beginning. You know, you know, like they, they always say you gotta start at the beginning somewhere. So might as well start at the beginning.   Kijuan Amey ** 03:29 Yeah. So back in the 90s, born in Durham, North Carolina, where I was, of course, raised there as well. I don't live too far from there. Now, honestly, I'm only maybe 2530 minutes from there, so I still consider myself right here in it.   Michael Hingson ** 03:48 And of course, having grown up in Durham, you must be a major basketball fan of some sort.   Kijuan Amey ** 03:55 What? Why would you say that there's no basketball around here? What   Michael Hingson ** 03:58 are you talking about? Yes, 25 miles away from you. Yeah, I am definitely a, a   Kijuan Amey ** 04:04 true Understander of the rivalry UNC versus Duke. Okay, oh gosh, and and then I might be from Durham, but I'm actually a UNC fan.   Michael Hingson ** 04:16 I was in Carolina once and Northern Carolina, North Carolina in Durham, several years ago to do a speech. And we came in on a Thursday night, and I got to the hotel was pretty tired, but I thought I would unpack and watch TV. And at the time, there was a show on CBS called without a trace. I kind of like the show, so I turned it on, and at eight o'clock, when without a trace was supposed to come on, there was suddenly an announcement that says that without a trace will not be seen tonight, because we're going to be presenting live the basketball game between North Carolina State and University of. North Carolina to see which one is going to go to the chip college championships. And so if you want to watch without a trace, you can watch it Sunday morning at two in the morning. I wasn't going to do that, but anyway. But anyway. So yeah, the basketball. It runneth hot there, obviously,   Kijuan Amey ** 05:22 yeah, so it's pretty interesting. There is a meme for those who understands what that is, but it's a depiction. There's North Carolina State, Duke and UNC, all standing on top of a mountain, all of the mascots, and North Carolina State says, I'm going to do this one for my team, and they jump off the mountain. And then UNC says, and I'm going to do this one for my team, and then they kick Duke off the mountain.   Michael Hingson ** 05:59 Listen, I'm telling you, man, it is serious around I know it is really serious. It's so serious. So, yeah,   Kijuan Amey ** 06:05 no, I grew up in a UNC household, um, grandmother, mother, I mean, dad, hey, listen, if you they even worked at Duke and still were UNC fans. It's just the way it was, you know, and it's hard to when you grew up in it was hard to go against, you know, Unc, when they have such a amazing teams with Michael Jordan, Antoine Jameson, all these guys that came through there, you just like, gosh, these guys were really great. And so it's just one of those things. But, you know, kind of growing up with that lifestyle, you had the two games during the season, and you you hope they met in the in the in the ACC tournament, right? Because you wanted to see if there could be a clean sweep, well. And so this past year, Duke got to sleep. They rightfully, rightfully so, because their star player is going to be drafted number one this year. So they rightfully got it   Michael Hingson ** 07:12 another year. I was in brether County, Kentucky to do a speech, and it was the day of the NCAA championship. So one of the two teams was the what Wildcats of Kentucky, and I forget who the other one was, but I was to do a speech that started at 6pm and I was told it was at a high school. And I was told this speech has to end absolutely latest, at 6:30pm because by 631 the gym will be completely closed and and everyone will be gone because everyone wants to go home and see the Wildcats. Well, I did the speech. I ended it at 630 and everyone was gone. By 631 they were flooding out. Boy, I couldn't believe how fast they all got out. I'm   Kijuan Amey ** 08:09 telling you. Man, those, what we call them is blue, blue bloods, yeah, and these are the big, the biggest, you know, college teams that that impact that sport. So for basketball, of course, you got your UNC, your Duke, your Kentucky, your Kansas, those types of teams, you know. And football we already know is kind of shifting a little bit, but hey, it's just the way it is with all this nio money now. So yeah, and that's kind of what's going on nowadays. You got to have some money. And the difference between UNC and Duke, one's a private school and one's public. There you go. Well, so tell us. So tell us more about you. Yes. So me, besides me being a Tar Heel fan, I personally, you know, went after high school, graduated from Southern High School here in Durham, and then went on to the United States Air Force. I actually was going to consider going to North Carolina State, but it was not to become a fan. It was because they had one of the better engineering programs in the state, and better than UNC, huh? UNC doesn't really offer engineering. They offer computer science. And I didn't want that. And the computer science is kind of boring to me, yeah? And I mean, I'm just being honest, yeah, that's okay. And so I wanted to do either software or computer engineering, and the two best schools in the state were North Carolina State University and North Carolina agriculture and Technical State University, which we shortened for North Carolina A and T. So those two schools are the best here in North Carolina, which actually get a lot of great funding for engineering. Yeah, by the way. So yeah, that was what I was planning on doing, but there were admission hiccups. And so I said, you guys can have your admission hiccups. I already can't afford you. Anyway, I'm gonna take a different route. And so I have a really heavy or, shall I say my family has a really heavy background in the military, and mostly navy. Jeez, maybe seven, I think maybe six or seven Navy members, and then one army, one Marine, one went from the Navy to the Coast Guard. And then you have me, who kicked off the Air Force journey, and then my youngest brother is now carrying that torch, so he's out there in Italy. Man, I'm a little jealous about it. It's okay. I never got to see Italy. It's all right. It's all right. But anyway, I went into the Air Force and became an in flight refueling specialist. So what does that mean? Exactly, yeah, yeah. That's what I was getting into. I can't just say it without not telling so what that means is, I do refill aircraft, but I do it in the sky. It's basically like airplanes pulling up to a flying gas station,   Michael Hingson ** 11:28 which can be very tricky, tricky.   Kijuan Amey ** 11:30 That's a That's an understatement of the year. It's dangerous the first so when I was going through school, the first warning that they had in the book says flying two planes in close proximity is inherently dangerous. You think there's no way that's possible. No couldn't be Who are they telling this to? Like, man, it's almost like a five year or five year old needed to read that or something. So I'm just like, okay, the way to scare me. Appreciate it. And anywho I did that job for on paper, 10 years, three months and 17 days. That's how long the military counted. I Yeah, say, six and a half   Michael Hingson ** 12:22 years now. Why did you decide to do that, to go into the military? No to to become an in flight? Oh,   Kijuan Amey ** 12:31 that's because, well, first, yeah, yeah, you're right. That's a good question, because I had no clue that even existed. Didn't even know until my recruiter showed me, because I scored so high on the ASVAB, he said, I gotta show you something. And I was like, Okay, what is it? And so, you know, when you're going into the military, you're kind of skeptical about them trying to sell you a dream. And you know, so I'm like, and again, I have plenty of military families, so they're all telling me about this. They're like, don't let them sell you no dream. Make sure you pick a job before you go to basic training, because you don't want to go in open general and all this stuff. I said, okay, cool. Well, when he shows me that video, I start giggling. I said, Okay, all right. And he's like, what? I'm like, yeah, that's pretty cool. But what's the actual job you're going to show me? And he's like, this is the job as it that looks like a video game, man. He's like, he was like, I know it's crazy, but you qualify for it   Michael Hingson ** 13:40 now. What, what, what characteristic did you have, or what was the scoring on the test that made you qualify for that?   Kijuan Amey ** 13:49 I don't know what the exact cutoff is, but I score an 87 on my ASVAB out of 100 so that's that's high. Um, you needed a 50 to get into the Air Force. And I scored the 87 and he was so happy and elated. He called me as soon as he got my score. Not like, waited a day or two, no, he called me as soon as he saw the opening of the email. And he was like, When can you come in? That's all he said to me. He didn't say nothing else on the phone. And I was like, um, I could be there tomorrow. He was like, I'll be here. I said, okay, but anyway, that's literally how excited he was. He didn't even tell me why until I got there, so I had no clue, until the day I arrived in his office, and he was, he pulled out this stack of papers that he had stapled together, which was a was jobs, listing of jobs. And it was like eight pages, front and back, listings. And I'm like, Okay, what is this? And then I get close to it, I read. And I'm like, Oh, these are jobs. He's like, Yeah. He's like, go ahead. You flip through him, if you like. And I'm flipping through he's already started highlighting some and I knew there was something I wasn't gonna do. I mean, there was one of them that wasn't highlighted that I thought I wanted to do, which I'm glad I didn't, because I told it basically been me working on, like, Humvees and trucks and stuff. And he was like, You are way too smart for that. I said, okay, but that's what I know. That's what I just came out of high school doing, you know, because I went to a high school that had vocational trades and stuff. So I loved cars, I still do, and worked on mine until, literally, I couldn't see anymore, and so, you know, slowly becoming a lost trait. But hey, somebody's got to do it anyway. Yeah, that's how I got into that job. He showed it to me on a computer screen, and I was like, What the heck he's like, I've never, I said I'd never seen this before. He's like, you're not gonna see it as a civilian, because only the military does.   Michael Hingson ** 16:09 So why is it the military essentially said you did it six and a half years and you said you did it as 10.   Kijuan Amey ** 16:14 No, opposite. I said I did it six and a half. Oh, okay, rather, okay, 10, right? Because that was the day they retired me, the six and a half is the day I had my injury, and I never showed back up to work. Basically, what was your injury? My injury was a motorcycle accident where a car pulled out in front of okay, yeah, yeah. Sustained my eyes, my eyesight loss, traumatic brain injury, PTSD, spinal cord injury, broken, both legs, everything. What do you want to know? The only thing that didn't get, I guess you say, didn't have a surgery on was my arms   Michael Hingson ** 16:55 got it, but they, but they kept you in essentially, well, you were, you were in the military, so you stayed in while you were healing, or what?   Kijuan Amey ** 17:06 Yeah, so it, what happened was the reason it took so long, nobody really knew what to do with me and I, and I'll get you to why, or an understanding of why. So I did four years active, but now, at the time of my accident, I'm a reservist. I'm not active duty anymore. So fortunately for me, I was on an active duty, or in an active status, is what we call it, in the reserves, because I was in a travel status that day of my accident because I had to work that weekend, and on the day, which was May 5, 2017 that was my travel day. Okay, thankfully, because had it been may 4, 2017 I wouldn't have any of this, literally just one day. Wow. And so they were trying to figure out how to process me. They didn't know what to keep me, to let me go, to drop me off a cliff, like they didn't know what to do. And so as we were trying to file every piece of paper known to the what do you call it? DOD, Department of Defense. We had no clue what to do. Medical didn't know what to do. My leadership didn't know what to do. I definitely didn't know what to do. I mean, I never dealt with an injury, you know, or seen anybody deal with an injury, especially as substantial as mine. Yeah, of course, you were in the hospital. Well, even after getting out of hospital, you know, we were still dealing with this the whole entire time until I got retired, you know, up until the point where they eventually put me, it's kind of like they were trying to out process me with an honorable discharge, but they saw that he has an injury, so we need to get him some, you know, stuff done, and then he put me on a casualty report, and which means, you know, I was very badly injured. That's basically all that means. And that put me on a another piece of or or track, shall I say, which got me connected to a headquarters in Randolph Air Force Base in San Antonio, which is the Air Force Wounded Warriors Program. Now, when they saw my name pop up on the casualty report, they called me, and I'll never forget Connie Sanchez's voice, because I was like, What the heck is this? But she said, Hi, I'm Connie Sanchez calling from the Air Force winter Warriors Program, and I was trying to reach a key one Amy. And I'm like, You're who from where, because I had never heard of a program. Mm, hmm. So are you trying to in today's society, the scams that go on, you know? Yeah, I don't know what's going on. Who you? Who are you from? Where I'm I've been been in the Air Force for a while now. I've never heard of an Air Force. When the Warriors program, what are we talking about here, you know? And so she's doing her best to explain it to me and keep me from from being skeptical, as she says, I saw you pop up on a casualty report list, and we help airmen who have been wounded, ill or injured, you know, and and I said, Okay, well, what do you what are we we talking about? Like, what are mean you supposed to be talking about? She's like, Oh, I'm gonna help you get medically retired. I say, you gonna help me who? These are the words I've been looking for. You know, you gonna help me do what? Oh, I'm gonna help you get medically retired. I said, Where have you been for the last three years? And so anyway, that's how that whole thing got started. The ball started getting rolled to get   Michael Hingson ** 21:14 rolling so you were injured in 2017 Yeah. What was your attitude like after the injury? How? How did you move forward, or what? What were you thinking? Was it? Were you? Were you just totally devastated? Did you think you're going to just off yourself, or what?   Kijuan Amey ** 21:38 Well, let me preface by saying this, I told you I had a traumatic brain injury. The damage to my brain is most severe in the frontal lobe. The frontal lobe houses a lot of emotions, and so yes, there was devastation, yes, there was sadness. Yes, there was, well, what am I going to do now? Yes, there was anxiety, there was anything you can think of anger because of the guy who hit me or pulled out in front of me. Shall I say? You know, there was so much that was going on at one time, because, you know, I'm stuck in the hospital for, oh, by the way, I was at UNC hospital. Okay, so that's pretty cool. Uh, that I'm a Tar Heel Fanning and I got, you know, Life Flight of the UNC hospital. But back to what I was saying, there's so much that was going on that one time, because I'm stuck at a hospital for two months now, granted, the first month I know nothing about. I was in a medically induced coma for the first month, so from May 5 until June the sixth. Don't ask me any question. You know what? I mean, I literally know nothing, because that's when I came to I came out of my medically induced coma, and so I'm just trying to figure out where I am. I cannot see already, like my vision was already gone. This is not a gradual loss, as some might think or might be wondering. I could not talk at the time because my jaw had been broken, so they wired it shut to keep me from damaging it any further then I didn't realize it yet, but I also could not smell, and the reason I didn't realize it is because I could breathe just fine. The only time I noticed I couldn't smell is when some is when somebody said, Man, you smell that? It smelled good? No, no, I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. What What smells good, you know? Or if I you know, yeah, something smell bad. I don't smell it. What are you talking about? And so anywho, um, all of these different things are going through my mind, and even after I was told what happened to me, because I, of course, don't remember. I have no recollection of the accident. So after they told me what happened now, I am sitting there with these thoughts in my head for basically, I don't know, 12 hours because I stopped talking or communicating with anyone after that, and I just wanted to be alone. Because, as the saying goes, I just got hit with a ton of bricks. Yeah, you know, so I'm literally going through all the emotions, the sadness, the net, the potential, thought of never being able to see again, never being able to fly again, refill again, see my, my girlfriend, see my, my nieces, nephews, a family, uncle, anything possible. My, I don't even have kids. I never get to see them, you know. So it's. It was one of those things. And I, I mean, I took a lot of pride in the things that I saw, because it was things that a lot of people would never see. And this is also why, you know, on some of my social media, when I did do air refuelings and things of that nature, or or went to really nice locations, or even some that weren't so nice. I would take pictures and post it, because some people will never get to see this. Yeah, so I want you to live vicariously if you want to say it through me, they're like, man, that's cool. That video, that was awesome. You you did the other day. Hey, I appreciate it, man. Hey, it's my job, you know? It's just what it is. It's all part of the   Michael Hingson ** 25:49 game, you know. And all that was taken away   Kijuan Amey ** 25:53 Exactly. And so when I tell you I used to have and I wouldn't even be sleep, I would be daydreaming, and could see so vividly, like airplanes that I used to refuel, like the F 22 Raptor, the C 17, you know, it's it's things like that. The views I used to have looking down at the ocean from 20,000 feet in the air, looking down at the coastline, flying over the North Carolina and Virginia border, where you can see literally go from land to water to land, because there is a tunnel that goes underneath the water for ships to pass over, I could literally see that stuff from the air and to now go from not seeing that ever again, the thoughts that you sit with were just like beating me up alive. And so I finally had to come out of crazy mode, because that's what it makes you do. It makes you go crazy when you do think about all these thoughts. I had to come out of that mode, because if I didn't, I probably would have really went crazy. And I finally started asking all the questions to get answers, instead of trying to formulate my own questions that I had no answers to. And so that is what you know, got me the information and how the accident happened, where I was, where I was coming from. I do remember the day that I had before that, like not not may 4, but like what I was doing before I had the accident. I do remember all of that, but the thing is, when it came up to the accident, I don't know nothing about it, it's like it completely erased that entire moment. And that's a protective mode that your neurological system does for your brain. So it's so, it's so. It's so empowering that your your mind, can do something like that. But it's also a benefit, because I would never, I do not want to relive that dream or that nightmare, shall I say, over and over. Right?   Michael Hingson ** 28:22 But you made the choice to move on, to get out of the crazy mode. What? What caused you to do that? Just you decided enough was enough, and it's time to move on, or what?   Kijuan Amey ** 28:39 No, I'm a man of answers. I need answers so. So when I think the military kind of did that to me too, but I've always been that guy who asked questions to you, even when I was younger, I was at, man, will you just sit down and we'll get to it, you know? So the military made it worse, because I became an instructor, and as an instructor, you tend to ask questions, so you can see what the person is thinking, how they're thinking, you know, making sure they're processing the information correctly. And so I am now doing that to everybody. I've put my instructor hat back on, and I'm going to asking questions that I need to know the answers   Michael Hingson ** 29:21 to so, how long after the accident, did you start doing this?   Kijuan Amey ** 29:25 Oh, no, this was a Maybe the day after I woke up from my medically induced coma. Okay, so, so the day I was informed of the accident, which was June the sixth, when I woke up out of my medically induced coma because I hate the panic button, basically not being a receipt or talk, you know what I mean? So, so I needed to figure something out, and that's when I asked the question, Well, what happened to me? Or what is the question I asked was, What? What is this motorcycle accident dream you guys are talking about? Because somebody, it was just people in my room talking, right? And they were like, Oh no, that's not a dream. That's what happened to you. And that was when I went into that shutdown period. And how long were you in that period? That was, that was the like, 12 to 16 hours or so that I didn't talk okay? And so the next day, June the seventh, is when I was like, hey, hey, I need to find something now. And that's what happened to me. What really happened?   Michael Hingson ** 30:30 So when that occurred? So now, on the seventh of June, did you just basically decide fairly quickly you got to move beyond from this, or did? Was it devastating for a while?   Kijuan Amey ** 30:44 Yeah, no, that's when the devastation and stuff really kicked in, because it made me say, What the heck, man, like, you know, somebody did this to me, you know, and I can't get back, none of that stuff. Yeah, that was taken away from me. I have all these different parts inside of me. I got metal plates in my head, screw rods and screws in my back, rods in both legs, a screw in my foot, like I even have two different sized feet now.   Michael Hingson ** 31:16 So how long was it before you started to decide you gotta go off and do something else with your life, and you're not gonna just let all of this rule you   Kijuan Amey ** 31:28 let's see when, when did that kind of transfer that it took me a little while, because I had to get acclimated to the new right life, you know, at first. So I think that would be around maybe I know I went on my first plane ride as a visually impaired person in 2018 So December of 2018 I went to my first blind rehab center. Where was that? In Tucson, Arizona. Okay, okay. The one for the V The VA has a couple of them. I can't remember how many it is, but that was the one I went to, because that was the first one to accept. I didn't want to go to the one that was closest to me. I've been to Georgia. It's okay. I wanted to go somewhere I haven't been, you know what I mean? And not no no shot at Georgia. I just wanted to go somewhere different, you know, yeah, and so that's what I did. And at first I wanted to go to Mississippi, but they took way too long to respond. And so anywho, I'm trying to get this done today, not next year, you know. And so I went there from December of 2018 until February of 2019 okay, I'm a pretty fast learner, and everything, when you go to those to the VA blind rehab centers, is at your own pace. You're fully embedded like you know, you're there the whole time. You got a room, you got everything, so they fully submerge you into this program, and you leave when you're ready. And so it only took me, and it wasn't even a full two months, is but, but I say two months because December to February, but anyway, I learned what I needed to learn, and I got out of there. I even learned stuff that I didn't know I wanted to learn, like copper tooling, wood working, you know, what's the other one? What's the leather? What's when you do leather? Yeah, but yeah, I I've even done stuff with leather, and that's so cool. It's pretty cool to do that stuff, but, yeah, I did all of that stuff, man. It's amazing. And, you know, come back home to show everybody what I learned, and they're like, Wow, you're like, a whole nother person. I said, Well, you know, I did pick up few things. And so once I got that under my belt, you know, the ability to know how to navigate, I still was not, like, really stable, because I hadn't. I hadn't, I didn't start lifting weights, or, you know, doing any like physical training, training, like legitimate training, until right before the pandemic, I was going to the YMCA and swimming, because, as we know, swimming is a full body workout, and so I was hitting the lap pool with a recreational therapist. And so what, man, that was the worst when that pandemic hit in March of 2020, yeah, because, trust me, I'll never forget it. That was when everything was looking up for me. I was like, Oh, this is so amazing. I'm I'm getting stronger, you know? I'm able to move a little bit better, get more confident in my life. And then, bam, shut everything down. I said, What? We can't go out. Wait. Everything's closed. Oh, okay, it'll only be two weeks. Oh, okay, that's okay. I could wait for two weeks. That's not that bad, yeah, but it'll be another month. Well, you said three months, six months, okay, I don't like this. So yeah, that's when everything started to come down. But then it went back up in 2021   Michael Hingson ** 35:25 Yeah, later in 2021 it started to lift   Kijuan Amey ** 35:28 Well, I mean, for me, for me in 2021 it was when I started actually working out by actually lifting weights again.   Michael Hingson ** 35:38 Now, were you still in the military? Swimming? Were you still in the military at this time I   Kijuan Amey ** 35:43 retired? Or was literally, uh, like, officially, medically retired, June 3, 2021, but again, I had not been to work since May. No, I understand 17, you know. So there's nothing that I'm doing at work. And when I did go down there, it was just kind of the just kind of a visit and hang out with those guys for the day.   Michael Hingson ** 36:07 You mean, they wouldn't give you a long cane and let you go ahead and continue to refuel aircraft, because you could just find the the appropriate place with the cane. They   Kijuan Amey ** 36:15 they would have had to switch it to the left hand, because I'm left handed, and they and they make you do that with the right hand, that refueling side, I'm way better with my left hand. Well, but hey, I would have gave it a shot, but, but   Michael Hingson ** 36:29 you don't move, yeah, but you, but you, but you had to make along the way the decision that you were going to move forward, which is what it sounds like you, you were doing. And certainly by June of 2021, when you retired and and so on, you made the decision that you were going to do your best to continue to to advance and do something else with your world. Oh   Kijuan Amey ** 37:00 yeah, yeah, no. I mean, the pandemic actually was a part of good and bad. I mean, yes, it made me upset because they kept pushing the timeline and stuff back. But October of 2020, that's when I started writing my book. So that was in the pandemic. I started writing my book. You know, I learned how to use a computer again in September. And then once I got that down pack, hey, I'm going to the next thing. What's the title of the book? Don't focus on why me. From motorcycle accident to miracle. Got it Okay, so that's the name of it. Yeah, that's the name of it. And, excuse me, like I said, I wrote the book, or started writing the book October 2020, but I wanted to publish it in May of 2021, because of the accident. You know, the accident was in May. I wanted to publish the book in May. Well, it didn't quite happen like that, because timelines get pushed back, because you got to get an editor, you got to get a book formatter, you got to get it covered. Oh, it was taking a long time. And so anywho, it got published in June of 2021, which is my entire retirement month. So I was okay with it. I retired and I published a book, a self published, by the way, a book in June of 2021, which is a big month for me, so I celebrate both good   Michael Hingson ** 38:32 so you did that, yep. And were you? So you got retired in June. And when, what did you decide to do? Or when did you decide to find work?   Kijuan Amey ** 38:47 Well, I don't, I don't really consider what I do work, and I'll tell you why, so as we will from what you're about to find out, I am the proud founder, and I call myself a chief motivational officer, not a CEO of Amey motivation. Now Amey motivation, I do keynote speaking motivationally based most of the time, and then I also am a trusted mentor and a resilience coach. So I don't feel like I'm working. I feel like I'm actually doing a service and giving back, right? I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I agree with you when I'm when I when I said a job, I kind of put it in air quotes, but anyway, I got you, but yeah, no, that's how I feel in my, you know, giving back. Because I almost feel like this is a type of ministry, a type of healing, a type of journey that not only benefits me, but benefits others. And it doesn't even feel like I'm working when I do this stuff. It just feels like I'm having a conversation. It feels like I'm building. It feels like I'm helping others, you know. And I. I couldn't even dare say that I feel like I'm working, and it's not even because I'm making good money. It's not because people are paying me, it's not because I travel to do this. It's because I really just don't feel like this is work, sure. Now, when I was in the military, that was work, you know, that felt like work. But this really does not. It's enjoyable, you know, and that's the beauty of it. And I love what I do.   Michael Hingson ** 40:34 But when did you decide to start motivating people?   Kijuan Amey ** 40:38 Well, that started back before the pandemic, too. And my first speech, like official, big speech, shall I say, anyway, was May of 2019, that's when I came out and told everybody, you know, kind of what, what happened to me, my story. Because, you know, everybody was hearing what happened to me on Facebook. I can't stand when I see a post of something bad happening to somebody on social media. Let me tell my story. And so that's what I did. And the title of that, that, uh, that speaking engagement, was, why not me? And everybody, I'm sure, was like, Wait, what the heck? Why is it called that? And I said, you're gonna have to come in to find out. You know, so anywho I told my story, and I do have a snippet of it on my website, Amy motivation.com   Michael Hingson ** 41:33 and Amy is spelled, a, yeah,   Kijuan Amey ** 41:36 A, M, E, y, right. So, you know, I did tell my story about just being the vulnerable side of what happened to me, how I feel, how I got through it, what I went through, what I was dealing with, you know, and man, when I tell you it was, you could literally hear a pin drop, and we were on carpet. Okay, so it was so quiet in there. Everybody was very attentive. It was a packed house, to say the least. There was not one empty seat, except for behind me, because, no, I didn't want anybody behind me. I wanted everybody to be out front. And so that was the only spot where there was an empty seat. I had people on the right side of me, people on the left side of me, people in front of me, everywhere. And so anywho you know, it was just an amazing speech and an amazing time, because a lot of people there, I knew some people I didn't, but a lot of people there I knew. And after they heard it and came up and talked to me after the speech, they were like, Man, I didn't even know you were going through that. I didn't even know this happened to you. I didn't even know that happened. I said, that's why I had to tell it, because what y'all are hearing on Facebook is partially true, and it's part of the story. It's not the whole story. Let me tell the whole story. So yeah, that's where all that started. I also did before that speech. I also did a couple of talks at high school, local high schools in Durham too. So my high school, Southern high school, my alma mater, another local high school called Jordan High School. So yeah, you know, just different things like that,   Michael Hingson ** 43:31 but you still ultimately were the one that you made the choice to do it. You made the choice to move on, which is so cool, because I can think of any number of people who, if they had the same sorts of things happen to them that happened to you, would give up, and you clearly did not,   Kijuan Amey ** 43:50 absolutely not. I think the hardest part for me is I can't sit down. Yeah, so, so me giving up is basically like me sitting down so and I can't do that. I'm like a person like the Energizer Bunny. As soon as you put a battery anywhere near me, I'm gone   Michael Hingson ** 44:09 well, and it's so much more rewarding to do that, I know for me after the World Trade Center attacks and so on, and we started getting calls asking me to come and talk about September 11 and what people should learn. My wife and I decided that selling life and philosophy was a whole lot more fun and rewarding, which is really probably the biggest issue, rewarding psychologically, was much more rewarding than selling computer hardware and managing a computer hardware sales team, which is what I did. So, yeah, it became also a a path and something that was worth doing. And I agree it, it is. It isn't work, right? Not. Not in the same way, but that is also in part because we've chosen to structure it and make it work that way, that it's not work.   Kijuan Amey ** 45:09 Yeah, yeah. You know what is. By the way, I love your story. I did hear it on another podcast that I listened to, who that I was interviewed by. And so the the so the day of the World Trade Center and the attacks, the plane that I used to fly on the KC 135 was actually the first plane to come check it out. That was the actually the first plane to come report what had happened, because it was one already airborne, nearby, and then when they look, they loop back around, and they were like, wait, the second one's on fire. Yeah. When did that happen? Like it was basically just like that. There was a   Michael Hingson ** 45:52 Air Canada flight. We met, well, I didn't. My wife did. Met the pilot. We were out in San Francisco, and I was doing a presentation, and she told me about it after the speech, but she said she was coming down on the elevator, and there was a pilot from Air Canada, and they got to talking, and she explained why she was there and what what we were doing. And he said that his plane was the first passenger plane over the world trade center after things happened. And as she said, the FBI must be, have become one of your favorite friends, right, or one of your best friends? And he said, Yeah, they sure did. But   Kijuan Amey ** 46:38 I don't want to get that knock,   Michael Hingson ** 46:40 but it's but it is a choice, and yeah, for for us, the other part about it was that the media got the story, and I feel so blessed, ironically, given how everybody likes to abuse reporters in the Media, but I got so many requests for interviews, and clearly it made sense to do what we could to try to educate and help people move on from September 11, so we accepted the interview requests. And for me personally, what I really learned is something, well, I kind of rediscovered and it got reaffirmed, was that, in reality, talking about something that happens to you like that is the most important thing, because talking about it gives you the opportunity to think about it and move on. And I got asked so many different questions by reporters, some intelligent, some not some in the middle. But the bottom line is that by talking to literally hundreds and hundreds of reporters, that made me talk about it, which was a very good blessing by the time all was said and done,   Kijuan Amey ** 47:54 right, right, instead of internalizing, yeah, no, listen, I also have to say, I'm glad you were in some shape, because what it was 78 floors, yeah, golly, hey, I don't want to hear you say 10, you know. But 78 floors,   Michael Hingson ** 48:15 it was going down. So that's pretty good. As I tell people, I do understand, but as I tell people, the next week, for the next week I was starting, actually the next day, I was stiff as a board. The adrenaline ran out. And, oh, it's horrible. And, yeah, you know, my wife was in a wheelchair her whole life, and we were in a two story house we built so there was an elevator. And I swear, for the next week after September 11, I use that elevator a whole lot more than she did.   Kijuan Amey ** 48:43 Ah, that's funny,   Michael Hingson ** 48:46 but, but, you know, it was just kind of the way it was. But it is a choice, yes, and the bottom line is that we we move on you. You certainly had lots of things happen to you. You lost a lot of things. Did you ever get your sense of smell back? Or is it still gone?   Kijuan Amey ** 49:01 No, no. It was damaged during the reconstructive surgery on my face where they had to input the two plates. Yeah. Okay, yeah. So that's where that came from. So now it happened, shall I say? So   Michael Hingson ** 49:13 now getting back to something that we talked about at the very beginning, as you point out, you lost your site, but you didn't lose your vision. So tell me more about that, what that means to you, and why you say that. Because, as I said, that's something that that I've thought and talked about a lot. And of course, when thunder dog was written, we put that into thunder dog. And by the way, if you don't know it, Thunder dog and and all three of my books actually are on on Bard, so you can download them, or you can help a poor, starving author and go buy them, but, but, you know,   Kijuan Amey ** 49:50 come on, I think you will off. Mr. Steve Harvey, No, I'm joking. But anywho. So, as I mentioned before. Four, you know, when I was talking about my business, I don't necessarily feel like I'm working. I feel like I'm helping and and what I mean, the reason I even preface that is because when I say I may have lost my sight, but I didn't lose my vision. Sight, to me, is the physical, the vision is the mental. And so my mental was helping others, and it's always been that way, whether it was me playing sports, I had to help in some way, because I played team sports. Now, did I play any individual? No, I played all team sports. I did bowling, I did football, the basketball and ran track. All of those are team sports. And so you can roll in singles, but at the same sense, some point you're going to be doing either doubles or three or four person teams. So most of the time I was doing teams and doubles. But anyway, I was always doing some kind of helping. I grew up with siblings. I had to help somebody. I, you know, I grew up with without much, so we had to help each other. Hey, you don't know how to cook. Let me show you. You don't know how to fix this in the microwave. Let me show you, you know. And so, um, when I got to the military, I had to help, you know, when I was became an instructor, I was helping teach the people who are coming in new and all these different times I'm helping people. And now I get to a point where, not only I have to help myself get back to where I can have some kind of normalcy of life, but what really is a normal life? You know what I mean? Yeah, I had to help others understand that if I can make it through this, you can make it through what you're dealing with as well, and be there to help you.   Michael Hingson ** 51:57 How about going the other way? Though you needed help too, yeah, yeah. And were you advanced enough in your thinking at the time that you were perfectly willing to accept help as well?   Kijuan Amey ** 52:12 Uh, no, I had my moments. Um, there. There's a chapter in my book I called, uh, it's called the depression set in, and that was when I was at one of my lower points, because not too long after depression, where the suicidal thoughts, the suicidal thoughts, luckily, didn't take me out and I never attempted, because I was able to think my way. I'm a very critical thinker, Problem Solver kind of guy, so I was able to think my way out of even having those thoughts again. And I said, Hey, man, this is not you. I don't know what it is, but it's not you. And so instead of me continuing to have those thoughts, I started asking people questions, what can I do? Because this is not like, it's not working, whatever life is not working for me, right? You know, and I'm a faith believer. So my grandmother, I was living with her at the time, and the first she's a faith believer as well. And the first thing she says is, you know, just pray. You know, just pray about it. I said, Grandma, we pray every day. Hear me clearly. I didn't say, some days we pray every day this obviously, and I'm not saying it's not working, but it needs something more. And so she was, well, I don't know what to tell you. And then eventually she goes in her room and thinks about it for a minute, and she said, Why don't you call your uncle? And I said, You know what? It's not a bad idea. And he, by the way, he's a senior pastor at his church, and so I said, that's not a bad idea. I didn't think to call my pastor because I didn't want to bother him. It's kind of one of those things you just felt like, I don't want him to think about that. I've had it on his mind, you know, stuff like that. And so I called my uncle, and I was telling telling him how I was feeling, and all I heard him say was, hold on key, I'm on the way. It was like eight o'clock at night, so for him to be like, Hey, I'm HOLD ON key, I'm on the way. That's what they call me Ki, my family. Some of them call me kiwi, but some call me Ki. But anyway, just as long as they don't call me late for dinner. And so I was like, Wait, he he's coming over here, you know? So I said, Okay. And I hung up the phone, and my grandma's like, Well, what did he say? I said, he said he's on the way. She's like, he went. I said, Exactly. That's what I said. And so she said, Oh Lord, well, let me put on some clothes. I said, let you put on some clothes. I need to put on some clothes. And. Yeah, and so anyway, we both get dressed somewhat. I wasn't, like, fully dressed. I just put on, like, some, you know, some basketball shorts, a shirt, yeah, you know, stuff like that. Because I'm thinking, we're just going to hang out at the house. He's going to talk to me. He's like, Hey, man, you want to throw on some pants and, you know, go out and put on some shoes. I said, Where we going? It's like, for a ride. I said, Okay, uh, yeah, uh, grandma, and she came back in there, she's like, Yeah, he's like, we're gonna go for a ride. Um, can you get my sweatpants from over this here? Because I knew where everything was in the room, and you know how it is, we know where everything is, where we put stuff. We know exactly where it is, right? And so I knew everything was get my sweat pants from this drawer and get my shirt from that drawer. And I said, No, it's the second drawer, not the third and stuff. So we I get dressed, we go for a ride, and he's talking. No, no, I'm talking first. He let me talk. He said, So key, tell me what's up. I said, I ran through the gambit of what I was going down with me, how I had the depressed thoughts, how I had some suicidal thoughts, but I had to bring myself back out of this, and I just could not figure out why this was coming over me like that. And he was like, Uh huh. And then, you know, I just stopped talking for a while. He said, You know what key I said, What's that? He said, I'm surprised it took you this long. I was like, What do you mean? He was like, Dude, I thought this would have happened to you a long time ago? He said, I've been waiting on this. And I said, that's crazy. Like I'm sitting there thinking, man, what the heck? You know? I'm thinking. People ain't thinking about me. Nobody's like, really, can't they see me smiling, laughing, giggling and all that stuff. So they're probably not even thinking about it, you know. But he was actually prepared. He's prepared for what I call the breakdown. And he said, Keith, I think the best thing you can do, and this is when we pulled over somewhere and start talking. He said, The best thing I think you can do with this situation is you're going to have to embrace and confront the issue. And I said, Can you explain that a little bit more? He's like, Yeah, yeah. He said, what it is, I think, is your the hope that we all have is for you to regain your eyesight. But the real realization is you don't have it right now. So I need you to live like you don't have it and hope that one day you'll get it. So don't keep dwelling on the hope part. Just live like you don't have it, and that way you'll keep moving forward versus thinking you're going to get it, because these thoughts are taking you down. Every day you wake up, every time you wake up from a nap, you think you're gonna open your eyes and see something that's gonna keep bringing you further and further down. I need you to embrace this thing and don't live in the denial phase of it happening. And that was when I started to come out like that was when I really started to gain some strength and a stronger mindset. Very wise words, oh, yeah, no, these are all he is, trust me, I'm just regurgitating them. I'm sorry. Oh, I said, yeah, these were definitely his words. I'm just regurgitating,   Michael Hingson ** 58:46 yeah, well, but, but certainly some, some good wisdom there. But you also then chose to follow, which is great, and probably whether he's surprised it took so long. It sounds like it all happened at the right time, because you are also willing to listen, which is great. So you you moved forward. When did you form your company?   Kijuan Amey ** 59:12 I mean, on paper, it was like two years ago, okay, um, but like I said, officially, I started speaking in 2019 right? I understand that, yeah. But so I always count 2019 because I really believe as soon as you start doing something, you're doing it, right, yeah, you understand and and the legality side of it, hey, you can have that. I don't care. But yeah. So that's how I view it.   Michael Hingson ** 59:44 So how did 10 years, if you will, even though some of it was less active, but how did 10 years in the military help prepare you for public speaking and what you're doing today?   Kijuan Amey ** 59:56 Oh, wow. I mean, well, first off, like I told you, the resilience coaching. Mm. Um, that's part of it, and that's all they used to talk about in the military, being resilient. We used to have, like, a training, I think it was every year, is it every year or twice a year, or something like that, but we used to have training on that stuff. Um, speaking, I I never really wanted to be a public speaker. I'll be honest. Um, I do have to stay that, say, say that, because I was not one who wanted to be in the spotlight. But if the spotlight found me, I'm okay with it. You know that that's that's what I was okay with. If it found me, that's fine, but I'm not trying to take over it. Don't put it on me, shine that light somewhere else and so, but what happened with that? Okay, yes, I took, I was in college for a while, and I did take a public speaking class with the instructor. Upgrade. You have to do public speaking, because you have to give presentations going through the pre training and the actual training, the certification training. So those were different. And also the the group sizes were different. Size you might be talking to one person you might be talking to an auditorium full. Mm, hmm. So there, there was that. And, you know? So these different things, I speak for different things at my church, you know? And so it started to kind of snowball again. Different things were building me up to that point, and as I got and you'll, you'll appreciate this here, as I got into my vision, or the eyesight loss, I understood that I have a superpower. Now, yeah, and I know people like a superpower. What are you talking about, man? So I can't see you so the the looks on your faces don't affect me, the fact that I'm looking at, or supposedly looking at, engaging an audience of one to 10 to 100 to even 1500 because I have spoken to over 1500 people before, it does not affect me, yeah? And that is like us to me, my superpower now. So that's how I've changed all of this to be fitting for me. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:32 yeah. Well, so let me ask you this. We've been doing this for a while, but I want to ask you one more question. Other people are certainly going through challenges. They're experiencing difficulties in their lives, and maybe some life altering kinds of situations. What kind of advice would you give them?   Kijuan Amey ** 1:02:54 Oh, the first one I can easily give you don't give up, and it's easily easy to give, but it's not easy to do. So I do have to say that you but if you keep that in the back of your mind, don't give up and you keep saying that to yourself, make it an affirmation. Put it on your vision board, put it in as a reminder in your phone, whatever you need to keep you grounded in that concept of, don't give up. And so that's one thing I would say. And for myself, I say this a lot, my situation, whether it's me being blind, me being having a traumatic brain injury, me having emotional, you know, flare ups, spinal cord issues or lack of mobility, what, whatever it is my situation that doesn't define who I am. I define who I am.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:56 So that's what I'll leave people with. And that is so true for everyone. Your your conditions don't define you. You've defined you, and you can choose how you want to be defined. Which gets back to, don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. Yep. Well, key one, I want to thank you for being here. I hope that people take this to heart, and I hope it will generate more business for you, if people want to reach out to you, maybe for coaching or for speaking and so on. How do they do that? Yeah,   Kijuan Amey ** 1:04:33 and I appreciate you saying that. So again, you can go to my website. That's Amey, motivation.com A, M, E, y, motivation.com you can also find my book on there. So don't focus on why me from motorcycle accident to miracle. You can also go on Amazon, Kindle Apple books as well as audible to find my book as well. So I do have audio versions out there for those who like to listen to their book. Books and for speaking engagements, feel free to click that book me link you can speak book me for a convention or conference or an event, a gala, high school, college, whatever you want me to come speak for. Come get me because I am all over it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:18 How many speaking events do you do a year.   Kijuan Amey ** 1:05:21 I don't count. Okay, if I try to count,   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:24 you know what I mean? I know the feeling, yeah,   Kijuan Amey ** 1:05:27 I just do Hey, hey. That's, I think that's what Nike said. Just do it, man.   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:31 Yeah, exactly right. Well, Kijuan, thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you who are out there listening or watching. Really, we're grateful that you're here. I hope that what we've talked about today not only inspires you, but it gives you some good life thoughts that you can go use. Because certainly, everything that we got to discuss today is relevant, not just if you are having a challenge in your life, but it's something that is important for all of us. Life lessons like these don't grow on trees, and I hope that you'll enjoy them and use them. Reach out to key one. I'd love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at access, A, B, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and Michael hingson is m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S O, n.com/podcast, love you to please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening. We love your reviews and your thoughts, so please do that, and as I also love to do, and that is to ask you, if you know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on this podcast. And Kijuan you as well, love to get your thoughts. Feel free to reach out, introduce us to anyone who you think ought to be a guest. We're always looking for more people who want to come on and and share their stories and help us all become more unstoppable than we think we are. But again, really appreciate your time today, everyone and Kiju, especially you. Thanks for being here. This has been wonderful.   Kijuan Amey ** 1:07:15 Thank you again. I really appreciate you having me on to tell my story.   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:22 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Episode Overview In this episode, Benoy Thanjan interviews Gabe Phillips, CEO of Catalyst Power Holdings, a company revolutionizing how commercial and industrial (C&I) customers access clean energy.  The conversation dives into the future of C&I solar, energy storage, demand response, and how Catalyst Power is empowering mid-sized businesses with creative, cost-saving clean energy solutions. Topics Covered: Gabe's background and evolution in the energy sector The unique C&I clean energy niche Catalyst Power serves The role of DERs (distributed energy resources) and why aggregation matters Combining solar, storage, and demand response into a single value proposition The importance of customer acquisition and tech-enabled platforms Opportunities and challenges in Northeast markets like NYISO and PJM What's next for C&I energy solutions as federal and state incentives evolve Key Quotes: “We're focused on the forgotten middle — C&I customers that are too big for rooftop-only and too small for full-blown utility-scale.” “There's a convergence of tech and finance in clean energy that's finally unlocking the C&I market.” “We're not just selling power — we're building long-term energy partnerships.”   Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy and he is also an advisor for several solar startup companies.  He has extensive project origination, development, and financial experience in the renewable energy industry and in the environmental commodities market.   This includes initial site evaluation, permitting, financing, sourcing equipment, and negotiating the long-term energy and environmental commodities off-take agreements. He manages due diligence processes on land, permitting, and utility interconnection and is in charge of financing and structuring through Note to Proceed (“NTP”) to Commercial Operation Date (“COD”). Benoy composes teams suitable for all project development and construction tasks. He is also involved in project planning and pipeline financial modeling. He has been part of all sides of the transaction and this allows him to provide unique perspectives and value. Benoy has extensive experience in financial engineering to make solar projects profitable. Before founding Reneu Energy, he was the SREC Trader in the Project Finance Group for SolarCity which merged with Tesla in 2016.  He originated SREC trades with buyers and co-developed their SREC monetization and hedging strategy with the senior management of SolarCity to move into the east coast markets.  Benoy was the Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners which is a national solar installer where he focused on project finance solutions for commercial scale solar projects.  He also worked for Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund, where he analyzed potential investments in renewable energy projects and worked on maximizing the financial return of the projects in the portfolio.  Benoy also worked on the sale of all of the renewable energy projects in Ridgewood's portfolio.   He was in the Energy Structured Finance practice for Deloitte & Touche and in Financial Advisory Services practice at Ernst & Young.  Benoy received his first experience in Finance as an intern at D.E. Shaw & Co., which is a global investment firm with 37 billion dollars in investment capital. He has a MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from the Stern School of Business at New York University.  Benoy was an Alumni Scholar at the Stern School of Business.  Gabe Phillips: Gabe is the CEO of Catalyst Power Holdings, a fast-growing company providing customized power solutions to C&I customers. With a background in environmental commodities and renewable project finance, Gabe brings deep experience in building businesses that sit at the intersection of sustainability, economics, and customer value. Prior to founding Catalyst, Gabe held leadership roles at energy trading and consulting firms. Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   Gabe Phillps Website: https://catalystpower.com LinkedIn: Catalyst Power Gabe's LinkedIn: Gabe Phillips

Send us a textDr. Reynold A. Panettieri, Jr, MD ( https://ritms.rutgers.edu/faculty/reynold-panettieri/ ) is the inaugural Director of the Institute for Translational Medicine and Science, and Vice Chancellor for Translational Medicine and Science, at Rutgers University, and previously served as the Director of the Airways Biology Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania. Dr. Panettieri's interests include the cellular and molecular mechanisms that regulate airway smooth muscle cell growth and the immunobiology of airway smooth muscle, which lead to the irreversible airflow obstruction and airway remodeling seen in patients with chronic severe asthma. Dr. Panettieri's lab also focuses on cytosolic signaling pathways that mediate gene expression and alter myocyte growth.Dr. Panettieri also served as the Deputy Director of the Center of Excellence in Environmental Toxicology at the University of Pennsylvania. He directed the human exposure chamber that defines the molecular mechanisms regulating ozone- and particulate matter-induced airway hyperresponsiveness.In addition to his research and clinical interests, Dr. Panettieri served as chairperson of the NIH Lung Cellular, Molecular, and Immunobiology Study Section, is a member of the NIH Distinguished Editorial Panel, and is a member of the American Society for Clinical Investigation and Association of American Physicians.Dr. Panettieri has an M.D. from University of Pennsylvania, and completed hisResidency and Fellowship at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania.Important Episode Links - As-Needed Albuterol–Budesonide in Mild AsthmaPublished May 19, 2025New England Journal Of Medicine -https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2504544BATURA Study Press Release - https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2025/statistically-significant-clinically-meaningful-batura-phase-iii-trial-provide-evidence-airsupra-standard-care-as-needed-rescue-treatment-asthma.htmlAIRSUPRA (albuterol/budesonide) is a prescription medication used as a rescue inhaler for adults with asthma -https://www.airsupra.com/#ReynoldPanettieri #InstituteForTranslationalMedicineAndScience #RutgersUniversity #Asthma #COPD #ChronicObstructivePulmonaryDisease #AirwaysBiology #UniversityOfPennsylvania #Immunobiology #EnvironmentalHealth #Bronchiectasis #IdiopathicPulmonaryFibrosis #InterstitialLungDiseases #RescueInhalers #Albuterol #AIRSUPRA #Budesonide #Corticosteroid #BATURA #AstraZeneca #Exposome #RespiratoryDiseases #InflammatoryResponse   #ProgressPotentialAndPossibilities #IraPastor #Podcast #Podcaster #ViralPodcast #STEM #Innovation #Technology #Science #ResearchSupport the show

On this episode of the SeventySix Capital Sports Leadership Show - College Sports Edition, Wayne Kimmel and Co-Host Ken Shropshire interviewed Sports Agent and Founder of SANIL and AthleticDirectorU, Jason Belzer. Belzer discusses the transformative changes in college athletics, particularly focusing on the impact of NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) rights, the evolving role of athletic directors, and the influence of private equity in the sports ecosystem. He emphasizes the need for transparency and education for young athletes navigating this new landscape, as well as the potential for collective bargaining to reshape the industry. Belzer also highlights the importance of community and unity in college sports, as institutions adapt to the rapidly changing environment.Belzer, Esq. is co-founder and CEO of Student Athlete NIL (SANIL), an agency of record that specializes in assisting brands, universities and student-athletes navigate the new era of name, image and likeness. SANIL manages more than 45 NIL collectives at universities across the country and hosts the annual NIL Summit at the College Football Hall of Fame in Atlanta.Belzer is also founder and President of GAME, Inc., an agency that specializes in the career management and marketing of coaches and the creation of collegiate sporting events. The firm represents more than 30 head Division I men's and women's basketball coaches and has negotiated more than $100 million in contracts to date.He is also co-founder of AthleticDirectorU, a transformative digital media and professional development platform for college athletic administrators and coaches. ADU is the No. 1 read original content publication in the college sports industry.Belzer graduated from Rutgers University, earning degrees in Sport Management and Political Science. He went on to receive his MBA from the University of Illinois and a JD from Rutgers University School of Law and is a licensed attorney in New York and New Jersey.Ken Shropshire:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-shropshire-wharton/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kennethshropshire/Jason Belzer:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonbelzer/X: https://x.com/JasonBelzerChapters:00:00 The Evolution of College Athletics09:19 Navigating NIL and Athlete Representation17:50 The Impact of Direct Payments on College Sports24:26 The Future of Private Equity in College Sports32:10 The Role of Athletic Directors in Modern Sports

This week at NSTA: The Bus Stop - Executive Director Curt Macysyn welcomes first-time guest Charles Chilton, Vice President and General Manager of IC Bus, to the podcast. Charles joins Curt for a wide-ranging conversation about stepping into a leadership role at one of the most recognized names in the school bus industry. He then reflects on his transition into his new position in January and shares key takeaways from his first several months at the helm. With his engineering background, Charles discusses how his technical experience informs his leadership approach and vision for the company. The conversation shifts gears as Charles shares how he finds balance outside of work, including his love of golf. Curt mentions the recent PGA exploits of a fellow Rutgers University alum - Chris Gotterup. Then to wrap things up, Curt and Charles conclude with an interesting conversation into the unique challenges and opportunities of leading an established industry brand - as well as what's ahead for IC Bus. Become a podcast subscriber and don't miss an episode of NSTA: The Bus Stop - NSTA Vendor Partners should reach out to us to take advantage of our comprehensive advertising package that reaches your target audience - student transportation professionals!Support the show

David Mayernik is an architect, artist, writer, educator and most of all, he is a life-long student. David grew up in Allentown Pennsylvania. As he tells us during this episode, even at a young age of two he already loved to draw. He says he always had a pencil and paper with him and he used them constantly. His mother kept many of his drawings and he still has many of them to this day.   After graduating from University of Notre Dame David held several positions with various architectural firms. He always believed that he learned more by teaching himself, however, and eventually he decided to leave the professional world of architecture and took teaching positions at Notre Dame. He recently retired and is now Professor Emeritus at Notre Dame.   Our conversation is far ranging including discussions of life, the importance of learning and growing by listening to your inner self. David offers us many wonderful and insightful lessons and thoughts we all can use. We even talk some about about how technology such as Computer Aided Design systems, (CAD), are affecting the world of Architecture. I know you will enjoy what David has to say. Please let me know your thoughts through email at michaelhi@accessibe.com.     About the Guest:   David Mayernik is an architect, artist, writer, and educator. He was born in 1960 in Allentown, Pennsylvania; his parents were children of immigrants from Slovakia and Italy. He is a Fellow of the American Academy in Rome and the British Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures, and Commerce, and has won numerous grants, awards and competitions, including the Gabriel Prize for research in France, the Steedman Competition, and the Minnesota State Capitol Grounds competition (with then partner Thomas N. Rajkovich). In 1995 he was named to the decennial list of the top forty architects in the United States under forty. In the fall of 2022, he was a resident at the Bogliasco Foundation in Liguria and the Cini foundation in Venice.   His design work for the TASIS campus in Switzerland over twenty-eight years has been recognized with a Palladio Award from Traditional Building magazine, an honorable mention in the INTBAU Excellence Awards, and a jury prize from the Prix Européen d'Architecture Philippe Rotthier. TASIS Switzerland was named one of the nine most beautiful boarding schools in the world by AD Magazine in March 2024. For ten years he also designed a series of new buildings for TASIS England in Surrey.   David Mayernik studied fresco painting with the renowned restorer Leonetto Tintori, and he has painted frescoes for the American Academy in Rome, churches in the Mugello and Ticino, and various buildings on the TASIS campus in Switzerland. He designed stage sets for the Haymarket Opera company of Chicago for four seasons between 2012 and 2014. He won the competition to paint the Palio for his adopted home of Lucca in 2013. His paintings and drawings have been exhibited in New York, Chicago, London, Innsbruck, Rome, and Padova and featured in various magazines, including American Artist and Fine Art Connoisseur.   David Mayernik is Professor Emeritus with the University of Notre Dame, where for twenty years he taught in the School of Architecture. He is the author of two books, The Challenge of Emulation in Art and Architecture (Routledge, UK) and Timeless Cities: An Architect's Reflections on Renaissance Italy, (Basic Books), and numerous essays and book chapters, including “The Baroque City” for the Oxford Handbook of the Baroque. In 2016 he created the online course The Meaning of Rome for Notre Dame, hosted on the edX platform, which had an audience of six thousand followers. Ways to connect with David:   Website: www.davidmayernik.com Instagram: davidmayernik LinkedIn: davidmayernik EdX: The Meaning of Rome https://www.edx.org/learn/humanities/university-of-notre-dame-the-meaning-of-rome-the-renaissance-and-baroque-city     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:17 Well, hi and welcome once again. Wherever you happen to be, to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to chat with David Mayernik, unless you're in Europe, and then it's David Mayernik, but either way, we're glad to have him. He is an architect. He is an award winning architect. He's an author. He's done a number of things in his life, and we're going to talk about all of those, and it's kind of more fun to let him be the one to talk more about it, and then I can just pick up and ask questions as we go, and that's what we'll do. But we're really glad that he's here. So David, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   David Mayernik ** 01:57 Oh, thanks so much. Michael, thanks for the invitation. I'm looking forward to it.   Michael Hingson ** 02:02 Well, I know we've been working on getting this set up, and David actually happens to be in Italy today, as opposed to being in the US. He was a professor at Notre Dame for 20 years, but he has spent a lot of time in Europe and elsewhere, and I'm sure he's going to talk about that. But why don't we start, as I mentioned earlier, as I love to do, tell us kind of about the early David growing up.   David Mayernik ** 02:25 Well, so my both of my parents passed away several years ago, and when I was at my mom's funeral, one of our next door neighbors was telling my wife what I was like when I was a kid, and she said he was very quiet and very intense. And I suppose that's how I was perceived. I'm not sure I perceived myself that way I did. The thing about me is I've always drawn my mom. I mean, lots of kids draw, but I drew like credibly, well, when I was, you know, two and three years old. And of course, my mother saved everything. But the best thing about it was that I always had paper and pencil available. You know, we were terribly well off. We weren't poor, but we weren't, you know, well to do, but I never lacked for paper and pencils, and that just allowed me to just draw as much as I possibly could.   Michael Hingson ** 03:16 And so I guess the other question is, of course, do you still have all those old drawings since your mom kept   David Mayernik ** 03:23 them? Well, you know? Yeah, actually, after she passed, I did get her, Well, her collection of them. I don't know that all of them. My father had a penchant for throwing things away, unfortunately. So some of the archive is no longer with us, but no but enough of it. Just odds and bits from different areas of my life. And the thing is, you know, I was encouraged enough. I mean, all kids get encouraged. I think when they're young, everything they do is fabulous, but I had enough encouragement from people who seem to take it seriously that I thought maybe I had something and and it was the kind of thing that allowed me to have enough confidence in myself that I actually enjoyed doing it and and mostly, my parents were just impressed. You know, it just was impressive to them. And so I just happily went along my own way. The thing about it was that I really wanted to find my own path as somebody who drew and had a chance in high school for a scholarship to a local art school. I won a competition for a local art school scholarship, and I went for a couple of lessons, and I thought, you know, they're just teaching me to draw like them. I want to draw like me. So for better or worse, I'm one of those autodidacts who tries to find my own way, and, you know, it has its ups and downs. I mean, the downside of it is it's a slower learning process. Is a lot more trial and error. But the upside of it is, is that it's your own. I mean, essentially, I had enough of an ego that, you know, I really wanted to do. Things my way.   Michael Hingson ** 05:02 Well, you illustrate something that I've believed and articulate now I didn't used to, but I do now a lot more, which is I'm my own best teacher. And the reality is that you you learn by doing, and people can can give you information. And, yeah, you're right. Probably they wanted you to mostly just draw like them. But the bottom line is, you already knew from years of drawing as a child, you wanted to perhaps go a slightly different way, and you worked at it, and it may have taken longer, but look at what you learned.   David Mayernik ** 05:37 Yeah, I think it's, I mean, for me, it's, it's important that whatever you do, you do because you feel like you're being true to yourself somehow. I mean, I think that at least that's always been important to me, is that I don't, I don't like doing things for the sake of doing them. I like doing them because I think they matter. And I like, you know, I think essentially pursuing my own way of doing it meant that it always was, I mean, beyond just personal, it was something I was really committed to. And you know, the thing about it, eventually, for my parents was they thought it was fabulous, you know, loved great that you draw, but surely you don't intend to be an artist, because, you know, you want to have a job and make a living. And so I eventually realized that in high school, that while they, well, they probably would have supported anything I did that, you know, I was being nudged towards something a little bit more practical, which I think happens to a lot of kids who choose architecture like I did. It's a way, it's a practical way of being an artist and and that's we could talk about that. But I think that's not always true.   Michael Hingson ** 06:41 Bill, go ahead, talk about that. Well, I think that the   David Mayernik ** 06:44 thing about architecture is that it's become, well, one it became a profession in America, really, in the 20th century. I mean, it's in the sense that there was a licensing exam and all the requirements of what we think of as, you know, a professional service that, you know, like being a lawyer or a doctor, that architecture was sort of professionalized in the 20th century, at least in the United States. And, and it's a business, you know, ostensibly, I mean, you're, you know, you're doing what you do for a fee. And, and so architecture tries to balance the art part of it, or the creative side, the professional side of it, and the business side. And usually it's some rather imperfect version of all of those things. And the hard part, I think the hardest part to keep alive is the art part, because the business stuff and the professional stuff can really kind of take over. And that's been my trial. Challenge is to try to have it all three ways, essentially.   Michael Hingson ** 07:39 Do you think that Frank Lloyd Wright had a lot to do with bringing architecture more to the forefront of mindsets, mindsets, and also, of course, from an art standpoint, clearly, he had his own way of doing things.   David Mayernik ** 07:54 Yeah, absolutely he comes from, I mean, I wouldn't call it a rebellious tradition, but there was a streak of chafing at East Coast European classicism that happened in Chicago. Louis Sullivan, you know, is mostly responsible for that. And I but, but Right, had this, you know, kind of heroic sense of himself and and I think that his ability to draw, which was phenomenal. His sense that he wanted to do something different, and his sense that he wanted to do something American, made him a kind of a hero. Eventually, I think it coincided with America's growing sense of itself. And so for me, like lot of kids in America, my from my day, if you told somebody in high school you wanted to be an architect, they would give you a book on Frank Lloyd Wright. I mean, that's just, you know, part of the package.   Michael Hingson ** 08:47 Yeah, of course, there are others as well, but still, he brought a lot into it. And of course there, there are now more architects that we hear about and designers and so on the people what, I m Pei, who designed the world, original World Trade Center and other things like that. Clearly, there are a number of people who have made major impacts on the way we design and think of Building and Construction today,   David Mayernik ** 09:17 you know, I mean America's, you know, be kind of, it really was a leader in the development of architecture in the 20th century. I mean, in the 19th century was very much, you know, following what was happening in Europe. But essentially, by the 20th century, the America had a sense of itself that didn't always mean that it rejected the European tradition. Sometimes it tried to do it, just bigger and better, but, but it also felt like it had its, you know, almost a responsibility to find its own way, like me and, you know, come up with an American kind of architecture and and so it's always been in a kind of dialog with architecture from around the world. I mean, especially in Europe, at Frank Lloyd Wright was heavily influenced by Japanese architecture and. And so we've always seen ourselves, I think, in relationship to the world. And it's just the question of whether we were master or pupil to a certain extent,   Michael Hingson ** 10:07 and in reality, probably a little bit of both.   David Mayernik ** 10:12 Yeah, and we are, and I think, you know, acknowledging who we are, the fact that we didn't just, you know, spring from the earth in the United States, where we're all, I mean, essentially all immigrants, mostly, and essentially we, you know, essentially bring, we have baggage, essentially, as a culture, from lots of other places. And that's actually an advantage. I mean, I think it's actually what makes us a rich culture, is the diversity. I mean, even me, my father's family was Slovak, my mother's family Italian. And, you know from when I tell you know Europeans that they think that's just quintessentially American. That's what makes you an American, is that you're not a purebred of some kind.   Michael Hingson ** 10:49 Yeah, yeah. Pure purebred American is, is really sort of nebulous and and not necessarily overly accurate, because you are probably immigrants or part other kinds of races or nationalities as well. And that's, that's okay.   David Mayernik ** 11:08 It's, it's rich, you know, I think it's, it's a richer. It's the extent to which you want to engage with it. And the interesting thing about my parents was that they were both children of first generation immigrants. My mom's parents had been older Italian, and they were already married, and when they came to the States, my father's parents were younger and Slovak, and they met in the United States. And my father really wasn't that interested in his Slovak heritage. I mean, just, you know, he could speak some of the language, you know, really feel like it was something he wanted to hold on to or pass along, was my mom was, I mean, she loved her parents. She, you know, spoke with him in Italian, or actually not even Italian, the dialect from where her parents came from, which is north of Venice. And so she, I think she kind of, whether consciously or unconsciously, passed that on to me, that sense that I wanted to be. I was interested in where I came from, where the origins of my where my roots were, and it's something that had an appeal for me that wasn't just it wasn't front brain, it was really kind of built into who I was, which is why, you know, one of the reasons I chose to go to Notre Dame to study where I also wound up teaching like, welcome back Carter, is that I we had a Rome program, and so I've been teaching in the Rome program for our school, but we, I was there 44 years ago as a student.   Michael Hingson ** 12:28 Yeah. So quite a while, needless to say. And you know, I think, well, my grandmother on my mother's side was Polish, but I I never did get much in the way of information about the culture and so on from her and and my mom never really dealt with it much, because she was totally from The Bronx in New York, and was always just American, so I never really got a lot of that. But very frankly, in talking to so many people on this podcast over almost the last four years, talking to a number of people whose parents and grandparents all came to this country and how that affected them. It makes me really appreciate the kind of people who we all are, and we all are, are a conglomerate of so many different cultures, and that's okay, yeah? I mean,   David Mayernik ** 13:31 I think it's more than okay, and I think we need to just be honest about it, yeah. And, you know, kind of celebrate it, because the Italians brought with them, you know, tremendous skills. For example, a lot of my grandfather was a stone mason. You know, during the Depression, he worked, you know, the for the WPA essentially sponsored a whole series of public works projects in the parks in the town I grew up in Allentown, Pennsylvania. And Allentown has a fabulous park system. And my grandfather built a lot of stone walls in the parks in the 1930s and, you know, all these cultures that came to the states often brought, you know, specialized skills. You know, from where they they came from, and, and they enriched the American, you know, skill set, essentially, and, and that's, you know, again, that's we are, who we are because of that, you know, I celebrated I, you know, I'm especially connected to my Italian heritage. I feel like, in part because my grandfather, the stone mason, was a bit of jack of all trades. He could paint and draw. And my mom, you know, wrote poetry and painted. And even though she mostly, you know, in my life, was a was a housewife, but before she met my father, and they got married relatively late for their day, she had a professional life in World War Two, my mom actually went to Penn State for a couple of years in the start of at the start of the war, and then parents wanted her to come home, and so she did two years of engineering. Penn State. When she came back to Allentown, she actually got a job at the local airplane manufacturing plant that was making fighter planes for the United States called company called volte, and she did drafting for them. And then after World War Two, she got a job for the local power company drafting modern electrical kitchens and and so I've inherited all my mom's drafting equipment. And, you know, she's, she's very much a kind of a child of the culture that she came from, and in the sense that it was a, you know, artistic culture, a creative culture. And, you know, I definitely happy and proud of   Michael Hingson ** 15:37 that. You know, one of the things that impresses me, and I think about a lot in talking to so many people whose parents and grandparents immigrated to this country and so on, is not just the skill sets that they brought, but the work ethic that they had, that they imparted to people. And I think people who have had a number of generations here have not always kept that, and I think they've lost something very valuable, because that work ethic is what made those people who they were   David Mayernik ** 16:08 absolutely I mean, my Yeah, I mean my father. I mean absolutely true is, I mean tireless worker, capable of tremendous self sacrifice and and, you know, and that whole generation, I mean, he fought in World War Two. He actually joined, joined the Navy underage. He lied about his age to get in the Navy and that. But they were capable of self, tremendous self sacrifice and tremendous effort. And, you know, I think, you know, we're always, you know, these days, we always talk about work life balance. And I have to say, being an architect, most architects don't have a great work life balance. Mostly it's, it's a lot of work and a little bit of life. And that's, I don't, you know. I think not everybody survives that. Not every architects marriage survives that mine has. But I think it's, you know, that the idea that you're, you're sort of defined by what you do. I think there's a lot of talk these days about that's not a good thing. I I'm sort of okay with that. I'm sort of okay with being defined by what I do.   Michael Hingson ** 17:13 Yeah, and, and that that's, that's okay, especially if you're okay with it. That's good. Well, you So you went to Notre Dame, and obviously dealt with architecture. There some,   David Mayernik ** 17:28 yeah. I mean, the thing, the great thing about Notre Dame is to have the Rome program, and that was the idea of actually a Sicilian immigrant to the States in the early 20th century who became a professor at Notre Dame. And he had, he won the Paris prize. A guy named Frank Montana who won the Paris prize in the 1930s went to Harvard and was a professor at Notre Dame. And he had the good idea that, you know, maybe sending kids to five years of architecture education in Indiana, maybe wasn't the best, well rounded education possible, and maybe they should get out of South Bend for a year, and he, on his own initiative, without even support from the university, started a Rome program, and then said to the university, hey, we have a Rome program now. And so that was, that was his instinct to do that. And while I got, I think, a great education there, especially after Rome, the professor, one professor I had after Rome, was exceptional for me. But you know, Rome was just the opportunity to see great architecture. I mean, I had seen some. I mean, I, you know, my parents would go to Philadelphia, New York and, you know, we I saw some things. But, you know, I wasn't really bowled over by architecture until I went to Rome. And just the experience of that really changed my life, and it gave me a direction,   Michael Hingson ** 18:41 essentially. So the Rome program would send you to Rome for a year.   David Mayernik ** 18:46 Yeah, which is unusual too, because a lot of overseas programs do a semester. We were unusual in that the third year out of a five year undergraduate degree in architecture, the whole year is spent in Rome. And you know, when you're 20 ish, you know, 20 I turned 21 when I was over there. It's a real transition time in your life. I mean, it's, it was really transformative. And for all of us, small of my classmates, I mean, we're all kind of grew up. We all became a bit, you know, European. We stopped going to football games when we went back on campus, because it wasn't cool anymore, but, but we, we definitely were transformed by it personally, but, it really opened our eyes to what architecture was capable of, and that once you've, once you've kind of seen that, you know, once you've been to the top of the mountain, kind of thing, it can really get under your skin. And, you know, kind of sponsor whatever you do for the rest of your life. At least for me, it   Michael Hingson ** 19:35 did, yeah, yeah. So what did you do after you graduated?   David Mayernik ** 19:40 Well, I graduated, and I think also a lot of our students lately have had a pretty reasonably good economy over the last couple of decades, that where it's been pretty easy for our students to get a job. I graduated in a recession. I pounded the pavements a lot. I went, you know, staying with my parents and. Allentown, went back and forth to New York, knocking on doors. There was actually a woman who worked at the unemployment agency in New York who specialized in architects, and she would arrange interviews with firms. And, you know, I just got something for the summer, essentially, and then finally, got a job in the in the fall for somebody I wanted to work with in Philadelphia and and that guy left that firm after about three months because he won a competition. He didn't take me with him, and I was in a firm that really didn't want to be with. I wanted to be with him, not with the firm. And so I then I picked up stakes and moved to Chicago and worked for an architect who'd been a visiting professor at Notre Dame eventually became dean at Yale Tom Beebe, and it was a great learning experience, but it was also a lot of hours at low pay. You know, I don't think, I don't think my students, I can't even tell my students what I used to make an hour as a young architect. I don't think they would understand, yeah, I mean, I really don't, but it was, it was a it was the sense that you were, that your early years was a kind of, I mean an apprenticeship. I mean almost an unpaid apprenticeship at some level. I mean, I needed to make enough money to pay the rent and eat, but that was about it. And and so I did that, but I bounced around a lot, you know, and a lot of kids, I think a lot of our students, when they graduate, they think that getting a job is like a marriage, like they're going to be in it forever. And, you know, I, for better or worse, I moved around a lot. I mean, I moved every time I hit what I felt was like a point of diminishing returns. When I felt like I was putting more in and getting less out, I thought it was time to go and try something else. And I don't know that's always good advice. I mean, it can make you look flighty or unstable, but I kind of always followed my my instinct on that.   Michael Hingson ** 21:57 I don't remember how old I was. You're talking about wages. But I remember it was a Sunday, and my parents were reading the newspaper, and they got into a discussion just about the fact that the minimum wage had just been changed to be $1.50 an hour. I had no concept of all of that. But of course, now looking back on it, $1.50 an hour, and looking at it now, it's pretty amazing. And in a sense, $1.50 an hour, and now we're talking about $15 and $16 an hour, and I had to be, I'm sure, under 10. So it was sometime between 1958 and 1960 or so, or maybe 61 I don't remember exactly when, but in a sense, looking at it now, I'm not sure that the minimum wage has gone up all that much. Yes, 10 times what it was. But so many other things are a whole lot more than 10 times what they were back then,   David Mayernik ** 23:01 absolutely, yeah. I mean, I mean, in some ways also, my father was a, my father was a factory worker. I mean, he tried to have lots of other businesses of his own. He, you're, you're obviously a great salesman. And the one skill my father didn't have is he could, he could, like, for example, he had a home building business. He could build a great house. He just couldn't sell it. And so, you know, I think he was a factory worker, but he was able to send my sister and I to private college simultaneously on a factory worker salary, you know, with, with, I mean, I had some student loan debt, but not a lot. And that's, that's not possible today.   Michael Hingson ** 23:42 No, he saved and put money aside so that you could do that, yeah, and,   David Mayernik ** 23:47 and he made enough. I mean, essentially, the cost of college was not that much. And he was, you know, right, yeah. And he had a union job. It was, you know, reasonably well paid. I mean, we lived in a, you know, a nice middle class neighborhood, and, you know, we, we had a nice life growing up, and he was able to again, send us to college. And I that's just not possible for without tremendous amount of debt. It's not possible today. So the whole scale of our economy shifted tremendously. What I was making when I was a young architect. I mean, it was not a lot then, but I survived. Fact, actually saved money in Chicago for a two month summer in Europe after that. So, you know, essentially, the cost of living was, it didn't take a lot to cover your your expenses, right? The advantage of that for me was that it allowed me time when I had free time when I after that experience, and I traveled to Europe, I came back and I worked in Philadelphia for the same guy who had left the old firm in Philadelphia and went off on his own, started his own business. I worked for him for about nine months, but I had time in the evenings, because I didn't have to work 80 hours a week to do other things. I taught myself how to paint. And do things that I was interested in, and I could experiment and try things and and, you know, because surviving wasn't all that hard. I mean, it was easy to pay your bills and, and I think that's one of the things that's, I think, become more onerous, is that, I think for a lot of young people just kind of dealing with both college debt and then, you know, essentially the cost of living. They don't have a lot of time or energy to do anything else. And you know, for me, that was, I had the luxury of having time and energy to invest in my own growth, let's say as a more career, as a creative person. And you know, I also, I also tell students that, you know, there are a lot of hours in the day, you know, and whatever you're doing in an office. There are a lot of hours after that, you could be doing something else, and that I used every one of those hours as best I could.   Michael Hingson ** 25:50 Yeah. Well, you know, we're all born with challenges in life. What kind of challenges, real challenges did you have growing up as you look back on it?   David Mayernik ** 26:01 Yeah, my, I mean, my, I mean, there was some, there was some, a few rocky times when my father was trying to have his own business. And, you know, I'm not saying we grew up. We didn't struggle, but it wasn't, you know, always smooth sailing. But I think one of the things I learned about being an architect, which I didn't realize, and only kind of has been brought home to me later. Right now, I have somebody who's told me not that long ago, you know? You know, the problem is, architecture is a gentleman's profession. You know that IT architecture, historically was practiced by people from a social class, who knew, essentially, they grew up with the people who would become their clients, right? And so the way a lot of architects built their practice was essentially on, you know, family connections and personal connections, college connections. And I didn't have that advantage. So, you know, I've, I've essentially had to define myself or establish myself based on what I'm capable of doing. And you know, it's not always a level playing field. The great breakthrough for me, in a lot of ways, was that one of the one of my classmates and I entered a big international competition when we were essentially 25 years old. I think we entered. I turned 26 and it was an open competition. So, you know, no professional requirements. You know, virtually no entry fee to redesign the state capitol grounds of Minnesota, and it was international, and we, and we actually were selected as one of the top five teams that were allowed to proceed onto the second phase, and at which point we we weren't licensed architects. We didn't have a lot of professional sense or business sense, so we had to associate with a local firm in Minnesota and and we competed for the final phase. We did most of the work. The firm supported us, but they gave us basically professional credibility and and we won. We were the architects of the state capitol grounds in Minnesota, 26 years old, and that's because the that system of competition was basically a level playing field. It was, you know, ostensibly anonymous, at least the first phase, and it was just basically who had the best design. And you know, a lot of the way architecture gets architects get chosen. The way architecture gets distributed is connections, reputation, things like that, but, but you know, when you find those avenues where it's kind of a level playing field and you get to show your stuff. It doesn't matter where you grew up or who you are, it just matters how good you are, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 28:47 well, and do you think it's still that way today?   David Mayernik ** 28:51 There are a lot fewer open professional competitions. They're just a lot fewer of them. It was the and, you know, maybe they learned a lesson. I mean, maybe people like me shouldn't have been winning competitions. I mean, at some level, we were out of our league. I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say, from a design point of view. I mean, we were very capable of doing what the project involved, but we were not ready for the hardball of collaborating with a big firm and and the and the politics of what we were doing and the business side of it, we got kind of crushed, and, and, and eventually they never had the money to build the project, so the project just kind of evaporated. And the guy I used to work with in Philadelphia told me, after I won the competition, he said, you know, because he won a competition. He said, You know, the second project is the hardest one to get, you know, because you might get lucky one time and you win a competition, the question is, how do you build practice out of that?   Michael Hingson ** 29:52 Yeah, and it's a good point, yeah, yeah.   David Mayernik ** 29:55 I mean, developing some kind of continuity is hard. I mean, I. Have a longer, more discontinuous practice after that, but it's that's the hard part.   Michael Hingson ** 30:07 Well, you know, I mentioned challenges before, and we all, we all face challenges and so on. How do we overcome the challenges, our inherited challenges, or the perceived challenges that we have? How do we overcome those and work to move forward, to be our best? Because that's clearly kind of what you're talking about here.   David Mayernik ** 30:26 Yeah, well, the true I mean, so the challenges that we're born with, and I think there are also some challenges that, you know, we impose on ourselves, right? I mean, in this, in the best sense, I mean the ways that we challenge ourselves. And for me, I'm a bit of an idealist, and you know, the world doesn't look kindly on idealist. If you know, from a business, professional point of view, idealism is often, I'm not saying it's frowned upon, but it's hardly encouraged and rewarded and but I think that for me, I've learned over time that it's you really just beating your head against the wall is not the best. A little bit of navigating your way around problems rather than trying to run through them or knock them over is a smarter strategy. And so you have to be a little nimble. You have to be a little creative about how you find work and essentially, how you keep yourself afloat and and if you're if you're open to possibilities, and if you take some risks, you can, you can actually navigate yourself through a series of obstacles and actually have a rich, interesting life, but it may not follow the path that you thought you were starting out on at the beginning. And that's the, I think that's the skill that not everybody has.   Michael Hingson ** 31:43 The other part about that, though, is that all too often, we don't really give thought to what we're going to do, or we we maybe even get nudges about what we ought to do, but we discount them because we think, Oh, that's just not the way to do it. Rather than stepping back and really analyzing what we're seeing, what we're hearing. And I, for 1am, a firm believer in the fact that our inner self, our inner voice, will guide us if we give it the opportunity to do that.   David Mayernik ** 32:15 You know, I absolutely agree. I think a lot of people, you know, I was, I for, I have, for better or worse, I've always had a good sense of what I wanted to do with my life, even if architecture was a you know, conscious way to do something that was not exactly maybe what I dreamed of doing, it was a, you know, as a more rational choice. But, but I've, but I've basically followed my heart, more or less, and I've done the things that I always believed in it was true too. And when I meet people, especially when I have students who don't really know what they love, or, you know, really can't tell you what they really are passionate about, but my sense of it is, this is just my I might be completely wrong, but my sense of it is, they either can't admit it to themselves, or they can't admit it to somebody else that they that, either, in the first case, they're not prepared to listen to themselves and actually really deep, dig deep and think about what really matters to them, or if they do know what that is, they're embarrassed to admit it, or they're embarrassed to tell somebody else. I think most of us have some drive, or some internal, you know, impetus towards something and, and you're right. I mean, learning to listen to that is, is a, I mean, it's rewarding. I mean, essentially, you become yourself. You become more, or the best possible self you can be, I guess.   Michael Hingson ** 33:42 Yeah, I agree. And I guess that that kind of answers the question I was was thinking of, and that is, basically, as you're doing things in life, should you follow your dreams?   David Mayernik ** 33:53 You know, there's a lot, a lot of people are writing these days, if you read, if you're just, you know, on the, on the internet, reading the, you know, advice that you get on, you know, the new services, from the BBC to, you know, any other form of information that's out there, there's a lot of back and forth by between the follow your dreams camp and the don't follow your dreams camp. And the argument of the don't follow your dreams camp seems to be that it's going to be hard and you'll be frustrated, and you know, and that's true, but it doesn't mean you're going to fail, and I don't think anybody should expect life to be easy. So I think if you understand going in, and maybe that's part of my Eastern European heritage that you basically expect life to be hard, not, not that it has to be unpleasant, but you know it's going to be a struggle, but, but if you are true to yourself or follow your dreams, you're probably not going to wake up in the middle of your life with a crisis. You know, because I think a lot of times when you suppress your dreams, they. Stay suppressed forever, and the frustrations come out later, and it's better to just take them on board and try to again, navigate your way through life with those aspirations that you have, that you know are really they're built in like you were saying. They're kind of hardwired to be that person, and it's best to listen to that person.   Michael Hingson ** 35:20 There's nothing wrong with having real convictions, and I think it's important to to step back and make sure that you're really hearing what your convictions are and feeling what your convictions are. But that is what people should do, because otherwise, you're just not going to be happy.   David Mayernik ** 35:36 You're not and you're you're at one level, allowing yourself to manipulate yourself. I mean, essentially, you're, you know, kind of essentially deterring yourself from being who you are. You're probably also susceptible to other people doing that to you, that if you don't have enough sense of yourself, a lot of other people can manipulate you, push you around. And, you know, the thing about having a good sense of yourself is you also know how to stand up for yourself, or at least you know that you're a self that's worth standing up for. And that's you know. That's that, that thing that you know the kids learn in the school yard when you confront the bully, you know you have to, you know, the parents always tell you, you know, stand up to the bully. And at some level, life is going to bully you unless you really are prepared to stand up for something.   Michael Hingson ** 36:25 Yeah, and there's so many examples of that I know as a as a blind person, I've been involved in taking on some pretty major tasks in life. For example, it used to be that anyone with a so called Disability couldn't buy life insurance, and eventually, we took on the insurance industry and won to get the laws passed in every state that now mandate that you can't discriminate against people with disabilities in providing life insurance unless you really have evidence To prove that it's appropriate to do that, and since the laws were passed, there hasn't been any evidence. And the reason is, of course, there never has been evidence, and insurance companies kept claiming they had it, but then when they were challenged to produce it, they couldn't. But the reality is that you can take on major tasks and major challenges and win as long as you really understand that that is what your life is steering you to do,   David Mayernik ** 37:27 yeah, like you said, and also too, having a sense of your your self worth beyond whatever that disability is, that you know what you're capable of, apart from that, you know that's all about what you can't do, but all the things that you can do are the things that should allow you to do anything. And, yeah, I think we're, I think it's a lot of times people will try to define you by what you can't do, you   Michael Hingson ** 37:51 know? And the reality is that those are traditionally misconceptions and inaccurate anyway, as I point out to people, disability does not mean a lack of ability. Although a lot of people say, Well, of course it, it is because it starts with dis. And my response is, what do you then? How do you deal with the words disciple, discern and discrete? For example, you know the fact of the matter is, we all have a disability. Most of you are light dependent. You don't do well with out light in your life, and that's okay. We love you anyway, even though you you have to have light but. But the reality is, in a sense, that's as much a disability is not being light dependent or being light independent. The difference is that light on demand has caused so much focus that it's real easy to get, but it doesn't change the fact that your disability is covered up, but it's still there.   David Mayernik ** 38:47 No, it's true. I mean, I think actually, yeah, knowing. I mean, you're, we're talking about knowing who you are, and, you know, listening to your inner voice and even listening to your aspirations. But also, I mean being pretty honest about where your liabilities are, like what the things are that you struggle with and just recognizing them, and not not to dwell on them, but to just recognize how they may be getting in the way and how you can work around them. You know, one of the things I tell students is that it's really important to be self critical, but, but it's, it's not good to be self deprecating, you know. And I think being self critical if you're going to be a self taught person like I am, in a lot of ways, you you have to be aware of where you're not getting it right. Because I think the problem is sometimes you can satisfy yourself too easily. You're too happy with your own progress. You know, the advantage of having somebody outside teaching you is they're going to tell you when you're doing it wrong, and most people are kind of loath do that for themselves, but, but the other end of that is the people who are so self deprecating, constantly putting themselves down, that they never are able to move beyond it, because they're only aware of what they can't do. And you know, I think balancing self criticism with a sense of your self worth is, you know, one of the great balancing acts of life. You.   Michael Hingson ** 40:00 Well, that's why I've adopted the concept of I'm my own best teacher, because rather than being critical and approaching anything in a negative way, if I realize that I'm going to be my own best teacher, and people will tell me things, I can look at them, and I should look at them, analyze them, step back, internalize them or not, but use that information to grow, then that's what I really should do, and I would much prefer the positive approach of I'm my own best teacher over anything else.   David Mayernik ** 40:31 Yeah, well, I mean, the last kind of teachers, and I, you know, a lot of my students have thought of me as a critical teacher. One of the things I think my students have misunderstood about that is, it's not that I have a low opinion of them. It's actually that I have such a high opinion that I always think they're capable of doing better. Yeah, I think one of the problems in our educational system now is that it's so it's so ratifying and validating. There's so we're so low to criticize and so and the students are so fragile with criticism that they they don't take the criticism well, yeah, we don't give it and, and you without some degree of what you're not quite getting right, you really don't know what you're capable of, right? And, and I think you know. But being but again, being critical is not that's not where you start. I think you start from the aspiration and the hope and the, you know, the actually, the joy of doing something. And then, you know, you take a step back and maybe take a little you know, artists historically had various techniques for judging their own work. Titian used to take one of his paintings and turn it away, turn it facing the wall so that he couldn't see it, and he would come back to it a month later. And, you know, because when he first painted, he thought it was the greatest thing ever painted, he would come back to it a month later and think, you know, I could have done some of those parts better, and you would work on it and fix it. And so, you know, the self criticism comes from this capacity to distance yourself from yourself, look at yourself almost as as hard as it is from the outside, yeah, try to see yourself as other people see you. Because I think in your own mind, you can kind of become completely self referential. And you know, that's that. These are all life skills. You know, I had to say this to somebody recently, but, you know, I think the thing you should get out of your education is learning how to learn and like you're talking about, essentially, how do you approach something new or challenging or different? Is has to do with essentially, how do you how do you know? Do you know how to grow and learn on your own?   Michael Hingson ** 42:44 Yeah, exactly, well, being an architect and so on. How did you end up going off and becoming a professor and and teaching? Yeah, a   David Mayernik ** 42:52 lot of architects do it. I have to say. I mean, there's always a lot of the people who are the kind of heroes when I was a student, were practicing architects who also taught and and they had a kind of, let's say, intellectual approach to what they did. They were conceptual. It wasn't just the mundane aspects of getting a building built, but they had some sense of where they fit, with respect to the culture, with respect to history and issues outside of architecture, the extent to which they were tied into other aspects of culture. And so I always had the idea that, you know, to be a full, you know, a fully, you know, engaged architect. You should have an academic, intellectual side to your life. And teaching would be an opportunity to do that. The only thing is, I didn't feel like I knew enough until I was older, in my 40s, to feel like I actually knew enough about what I was doing to be able to teach somebody else. A lot of architects get into teaching early, I think, before they're actually fully formed to have their own identities. And I think it's been good for me that I waited a while until I had a sense of myself before I felt like I could teach somebody else. And so there was, there was that, I mean, the other side of it, and it's not to say that it was just a day job, but one of the things I decided from the point of your practice is a lot of architects have to do a lot of work that they're not proud of to keep the lights on and keep the business operating. And I have decided for myself, I only really want to do work that I'm proud of, and in order to do that, because clients that you can work for and be you know feel proud of, are rather rare, and so I balanced teaching and practice, because teaching allowed me to ostensibly, theoretically be involved with the life of the mind and only work for people and projects that interested me and that I thought could offer me the chance to do something good and interesting and important. And so one I had the sense that I had something to convey I learned. Enough that I felt like I could teach somebody else. But it was also, for me, an opportunity to have a kind of a balanced life in which practice was compensated. You know that a lot of practice, even interesting practice, has a banal, you know, mundane side. And I like being intellectually stimulated, so I wanted that. Not everybody wants   Michael Hingson ** 45:24 that. Yeah, so you think that the teaching brings you that, or it put you in a position where you needed to deal with that?   David Mayernik ** 45:32 You know, having just retired, I wish there had been more of that. I really had this romantic idea that academics, being involved in academics, would be an opportunity to live in a world of ideas. You know? I mean, because when I was a student, I have to say we, after we came back from Rome, I got at least half of my education for my classmates, because we were deeply engaged. We debated stuff. We, you know, we we challenged each other. We were competitive in a healthy way and and I remember academics my the best part of my academic formation is being immensely intellectually rich. In fact, I really missed it. For about the first five years I was out of college, I really missed the intellectual side of architecture, and I thought going back as a teacher, I would reconnect with that, and I realized not necessarily, there's a lot about academics that's just as mundane and bureaucratic as practice can be so if you really want to have a satisfying intellectual life, unfortunately, you can't look to any institution or other people for it. You got to find it on your own.   46:51 Paperwork, paperwork,   David Mayernik ** 46:55 committee meetings, just stuff. Yeah, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 47:00 yeah. Yeah, which never, which never. Well, I won't say they never help, but there's probably, there's probably some valuable stuff that you can get, even from writing and doing, doing paperwork, because it helps you learn to write. I suppose you can look at it that way.   David Mayernik ** 47:16 No, it's true. I mean, you're, you're definitely a glass half full guy. Michael, I appreciate that's good. No. I mean, I, obviously, I always try to make get the most out of whatever experience I have. But, I mean, in the sense that there wasn't as much intellectual discourse, yeah, you know, as my I would have liked, yeah, and I, you know, in the practice or in the more academic side of architecture. Several years ago, somebody said we were in a post critical phase like that. Ideas weren't really what was driving architecture. It was going to be driven by issues of sustainability, issues of social structure, you know, essentially how people live together, issues that have to do with things that weren't really about, let's call it design in the esthetic sense, and all that stuff is super important. And I'm super interested in, you know, the social impact of my architecture, the sustainable impact of it, but the the kind of intellectual society side of the design part of it, we're in a weird phase where it that's just not in my world, we just it's not talked about a lot. You know,   Michael Hingson ** 48:33 it's not what it what it used to be. Something tells me you may be retired, but you're not going to stop searching for intellectual and various kinds of stimulation to help keep your mind active.   David Mayernik ** 48:47 Oh, gosh, no, no. I mean, effectively. I mean, I just stopped one particular job. I describe it now as quitting with benefits. That's my idea of what I retired from. I retired from a particular position in a particular place, but, but I haven't stopped. I mean, I'm certainly going to keep working. I have a very interesting design project in Switzerland. I've been working on for almost 29 years, and it's got a number of years left in it. I paint, I write, I give lectures, I you know, and you obviously have a rich life. You know, not being at a job. Doesn't mean that the that your engagement with the world and with ideas goes away. I mean, unless you wanted to, my wife's my wife had three great uncles who were great jazz musicians. I mean, some quite well known jazz musicians. And one of them was asked, you know, was he ever going to retire? And he said, retire to what? Because, you know, he was a musician. I mean, you can't stop being a musician, you know, you know, if, some level, if you're really engaged with what you do, you You never stop, really,   Michael Hingson ** 49:51 if you enjoy it, why would you? No, I   David Mayernik ** 49:54 mean, the best thing is that your work is your fun. I mean, you know, talking about, we talked about it. I. You that You know you're kind of defined by your work, but if your work is really what you enjoy, I mean, actually it's fulfilling, rich, enriching, interesting, you don't want to stop doing that. I mean, essentially, you want to do it as long as you possibly can. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 50:13 and it's and it's really important to do that. And I think, in reality, when you retire from a job, you're not really retiring from a job. You're retiring, as you said, from one particular thing. But the job isn't a negative thing at all. It is what you like to do.   David Mayernik ** 50:31 Yeah. I mean, there's, yeah, there's the things that you do that. I mean, I guess the job is the, if you like, the thing that is the, you know, the institution or the entity that you know, pays your bills and that kind of stuff, but the career or the thing that you're invested in that had the way you define yourself is you never stop being that person, that person. And in some ways, you know, what I'm looking forward to is a richer opportunity to pursue my own avenue of inquiry, and, you know, do things on my own terms, without some of the obligations I had   Michael Hingson ** 51:03 as a teacher, and where's your wife and all that.   David Mayernik ** 51:06 So she's with me here in LUCA, and she's she's had a super interesting life, because she she she studied. We, when we were together in New York, she was getting a degree in art history, Medieval and Renaissance studies in art history at NYU, and then she decided she really wanted to be a chef, and she went to cooking school in New York and then worked in a variety of food businesses in New York, and then got into food writing and well, food styling for magazines, making food for photographs, and then eventually writing. And through a strange series of connections and experiences. She got an opportunity to cook at an Art Foundation in the south of France, and I was in New York, and I was freelancing. I was I'd quit a job I'd been at for five years, and I was freelancing around, doing some of my own stuff and working with other architects, and I had work I could take with me. And you know, it was there was there was, we didn't really have the internet so much, but we had FedEx. And I thought I could do drawings in the south of France. I could do them in Brooklyn. So, so I went to the south of France, and it just happens to be that my current client from Switzerland was there at that place at that time, scouting it out for some other purpose. And she said, I hear you're architect. I said, Yeah. And I said, Well, you know, she said, I like, you know, classical architecture, and I like, you know, traditional villages, and we have a campus, and we need a master plan architect. And I was doing a master plan back in Delaware at that time, and my wife's you know, career trajectory actually enabled me to meet a client who's basically given me an opportunity to build, you know, really interesting stuff, both in Switzerland and in England for the last, you know, again, almost 29 years. And so my wife's been a partner in this, and she's been, you know, because she's pursued her own parallel interest. But, but our interests overlap enough and we share enough that we our interests are kind of mutually reinforcing. It's, it's been like an ongoing conversation between us, which has been alive and rich and wonderful.   Michael Hingson ** 53:08 You know, with everything going on in architecture and in the world in general, we see more and more technology in various arenas and so on. How do you think that the whole concept of CAD has made a difference, or in any way affected architecture. And where do you think CAD systems really fit into all of that?   David Mayernik ** 53:33 Well, so I mean this, you know, CAD came along. I mean, it already was, even when I was early in my apprenticeship, yeah, I was in Chicago, and there was a big for som in Chicago, had one of the first, you know, big computers that was doing some drawing work for them. And one of my, a friend of mine, you know, went to spend some time and figure out what they were capable of. And, but, you know, never really came into my world until kind of the late night, mid, mid to late 90s and, and, and I kind of resisted it, because I, the reason I got into architecture is because I like to draw by hand, and CAD just seemed to be, you know, the last thing I'd want to do. But at the same time, you, some of you, can't avoid it. I mean, it has sort of taken over the profession that, essentially, you either have people doing it for you, or you have to do it yourself, and and so the interesting thing is, I guess that I, at some point with Switzerland, I had to, basically, I had people helping me and doing drawing for me, but I eventually taught myself. And I actually, I jumped over CAD and I went to a 3d software called ArchiCAD, which is a parametric design thing where you're essentially building a 3d model. Because I thought, Look, if I'm going to do drawing on the computer, I want the computer to do something more than just make lines, because I can make lines on my own. But so the computer now was able to help me build a 3d model understand buildings in space and construction. And so I've taught myself to be reasonably, you know, dangerous with ArchiCAD and but the. Same time, the creative side of it, I still, I still think, and a lot of people think, is still tied to the intuitive hand drawing aspect and and so a lot of schools that gave up on hand drawing have brought it back, at least in the early years of formation of architects only for the the conceptual side of architecture, the the part where you are doodling out your first ideas, because CAD drawing is essentially mechanical and methodical and sort of not really intuitive, whereas the intuitive marking of paper With a pencil is much more directly connected to the mind's capacity to kind of speculate and imagine and daydream a little bit, or wander a little bit your mind wanders, and it actually is time when some things can kind of emerge on the page that you didn't even intend. And so, you know, the other thing about the computer is now on my iPad, I can actually do hand drawing on my iPad, and that's allowed me to travel with it, show it to clients. And so I still obviously do a lot of drawing on paper. I paint by hand, obviously with real paints and real materials. But I also have found also I can do free hand drawing on my iPad. I think the real challenge now is artificial intelligence, which is not really about drawing, it's about somebody else or the machine doing the creative side of it. And that's the big existential crisis that I think the profession is facing right now.   Michael Hingson ** 56:36 Yeah, I think I agree with that. I've always understood that you could do free hand drawing with with CAD systems. And I know that when I couldn't find a job in the mid 1980s I formed a company, and we sold PC based CAD systems to architects and engineers. And you know, a number of them said, well, but when we do designs, we charge by the time that we put into drawing, and we can't do that with a CAD system, because it'll do it in a fraction of the time. And my response always was, you're looking at it all wrong. You don't change how much you charge a customer, but now you're not charging for your time, you're charging for your expertise, and you do the same thing. The architects who got that were pretty successful using CAD systems, and felt that it wasn't really stifling their creativity to use a CAD system to enhance and speed up what they did, because it also allowed them to find more jobs more quickly.   David Mayernik ** 57:35 Yeah, one of the things it did was actually allow smaller firms to compete with bigger firms, because you just didn't need as many bodies to produce a set of drawings to get a project built or to make a presentation. So I mean, it has at one level, and I think it still is a kind of a leveler of, in a way, the scale side of architecture, that a lot of small creative firms can actually compete for big projects and do them successfully. There's also, it's also facilitated collaboration, because of the ability to exchange files and have people in different offices, even around the world, working on the same drawing. So, you know, I'm working in Switzerland. You know, one of the reasons to be on CAD is that I'm, you know, sharing drawings with local architects there engineers, and that you know that that collaborative sharing process is definitely facilitated by the computer.   Michael Hingson ** 58:27 Yeah, information exchange is always valuable, especially if you have a number of people who are committed to the same thing. It really helps. Collaboration is always a good thing,   David Mayernik ** 58:39 yeah? I mean, I think a lot of, I mean, there's always the challenge between the ego side of architecture, you know, creative genius, genius, the Howard Roark Fountainhead, you know, romantic idea. And the reality is that it takes a lot of people to get a building built, and one person really can't do it by themselves. And So collaboration is kind of built into it at the same time, you know, for any kind of coherence, or some any kind of, let's say, anything, that brings a kind of an artistic integrity to a work of architecture, mostly, that's got to come from one person, or at least people with enough shared vision that that there's a kind of coherence to it, you know. And so there still is space for the individual creative person. It's just that it's inevitably a collaborative process to get, you know, it's the it's the 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. Side architecture is very much that there's a lot of heavy lifting that goes into getting a set of drawings done to get

A lot of my work these days revolves around communicating with farmers around Europe who are at various stages of a transition towards regenerative management. For many different reasons farmers are looking for solutions outside of the conventional industry of chemical and technological manipulations and are rediscovering the potential of partnering with natural cycles and processes. Though there are a handful of examples of growers who've been pioneering these practices around the continent, the vast majority are fairly early in their journeys. It's still rare to find an experienced commercial grower who has found success through organic, no-till, low input systems.  Luckily there are a few who have shown that this is possible and are sharing their knowledge and experience and I'm thrilled to feature one of them in this session. Helen Atthowe has worked for 35 years to connect farming, food systems, land stewardship, and conservation. She currently farms and does soil- and natural enemies' habitat- building research on her new 5-acre farm in Western Montana. Helen has an M.S. in Horticulture from Rutgers University and even studied with renowned Japanese farmer Masanobu Fukuoka. She has worked in education and research at Rutgers, the University of Arkansas, and Oregon State University and was a Horticulture Extension Agent in Montana for 17 years. Helen was a board member for the Organic Farming Research Foundation 2000-2005 and advisor for Wild Farm Alliance in 2018 & 2019.  She first owned and operated a 30 acre certified organic vegetable/fruit farm in Montana and later co-owned with her late husband a 26 acre certified organic orchard in California. Together they then moved to a 211 acre organic farm in Eastern Oregon doing mainly orchard and vegetable production. The two of them also created educational videos on their YouTube channel called Agrarian Dreams, and did video presentations about their ecological farming methods. She is the author of “The Ecological Farm: A Minimalist No-Till, No-Spray, Selective-Weeding, Grow-Your-Own-Fertilizer System for Organic Agriculture”. And that is exactly what we'll be focusing on in our interview today. As a reflection of many of the discussions happening within the Climate Farmer's community at the moment, Helen and I really dug into the unique goals she and her husband had during their farming careers and how they gauged their success. We talk about the way they measured progress on their journey towards a healthy yet low input system for both their orchard and vegetable crops as well the routines and practices that brought them the best results. Much more than just the knowledge and practices of her farming experience, Helen brings a remarkable mindset of constant learning and experimentation to this conversation that is now informing her new 5 acre project in Montana. We also cover the most important learnings that she has gained through her career and how it informs the establishment of all her new research.

At a time when change seems to be happening at an unprecedented pace, organizations across all industries are facing an array of new challenges. The key to thriving in this uncertain environment lies not only in the strength of an organization's people, but in the dynamics of its teams.  As the Founder and Managing Partner of Peernovation LLC, Leo Bottary draws on what CEO peer groups have done exceptionally well for years in order to empower teams within organizations to experience the same level of trust, engagement, and growth. Leo is the award-winning author of three books, including “Peernovation Second Edition: Forged by CEO Forums. Perfected for Teams.” He is also a keynote speaker, workshop facilitator, opinion columnist for CEO World Magazine, and an adjunct professor at Rutgers University. As our guest in Episode 238 of The Mindset Game® podcast, Leo shares the following:  3 crucial dynamics that are often found among the highest-performing teams, as well as five factors that support these dynamics Why psychological safety is vital in order for teams to innovate and succeed – particularly when faced with rapid change – as well as techniques to help foster psychological safety within teams and organizations How forging personal connections among team members – tapping into our shared humanity and approaching each other with curiosity, vulnerability, and openness – can enhance creativity and boost results Tips to help CEOs and other leaders guide their teams to not only survive, but thrive, amidst change To learn more about Leo Bottary and Peernovation, visit https://www.peernovation.biz or find Leo on LinkedIn.  To subscribe to The Mindset Game® podcast or leave a review, visit https://apple.co/3oAnR8I.

Episode Overview In this episode of the Solar Maverick Podcast, I speak with Lee Keshishian, the Founder & CEO of Civic Renewables. We dive into his 18+ year journey in residential solar—from founding Clean Currents to scaling Tesla/SolarCity's East Coast operations and now building a national network of trusted local solar installers. Lee shares insights on what it takes to grow resilient clean energy businesses and how Civic is raising the bar for solar quality and local impact. Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy and he is also an advisor for several solar startup companies.  He has extensive project origination, development, and financial experience in the renewable energy industry and in the environmental commodities market.   This includes initial site evaluation, permitting, financing, sourcing equipment, and negotiating the long-term energy and environmental commodities off-take agreements. He manages due diligence processes on land, permitting, and utility interconnection and is in charge of financing and structuring through Note to Proceed (“NTP”) to Commercial Operation Date (“COD”). Benoy composes teams suitable for all project development and construction tasks. He is also involved in project planning and pipeline financial modeling. He has been part of all sides of the transaction and this allows him to provide unique perspectives and value. Benoy has extensive experience in financial engineering to make solar projects profitable. Before founding Reneu Energy, he was the SREC Trader in the Project Finance Group for SolarCity which merged with Tesla in 2016.  He originated SREC trades with buyers and co-developed their SREC monetization and hedging strategy with the senior management of SolarCity to move into the east coast markets.  Benoy was the Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners which is a national solar installer where he focused on project finance solutions for commercial scale solar projects.  He also worked for Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund, where he analyzed potential investments in renewable energy projects and worked on maximizing the financial return of the projects in the portfolio.  Benoy also worked on the sale of all of the renewable energy projects in Ridgewood's portfolio.   He was in the Energy Structured Finance practice for Deloitte & Touche and in Financial Advisory Services practice at Ernst & Young.  Benoy received his first experience in Finance as an intern at D.E. Shaw & Co., which is a global investment firm with 37 billion dollars in investment capital. He has a MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from the Stern School of Business at New York University.  Benoy was an Alumni Scholar at the Stern School of Business.  Leon “Lee” Keshishian Experienced solar executive and entrepreneur with 18+ years leading growth in clean energy. Founder of Civic Renewables, building a national network of trusted local solar providers with centralized support for operations, procurement, training, and long-term service. Previously led East Coast operations at SolarCity/Tesla, scaling to 40+ locations and 4,000+ employees. As COO of Palmetto Solar, helped drive 400% growth and partnerships with 50+ local companies. Former CEO of Autosled and co-founder of Clean Currents Solar. Passionate about empowering local businesses, delivering long-term value to homeowners, and accelerating the energy transition through quality, service, and trust.   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   Lee Keshishian LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leonjkeshishian/ Website: https://civicrenewables.com

On this episode we get to meet Andra Wochesen, a teacher and then a coach. Andra received her college degree in kinesiology education. What is kinesiology, you may ask? Physical education. Andra will tell us more and how she progressed from years of teaching to coaching to help “entrepreneurs and leaders to be in their power and conviction so they land on bigger stages, command higher fees and create meaningful impact”. Andra focuses today on helping people understand themselves and their lives. She uses tools such as examining Akashic Records. We get to learn in detail what Andra does and how she accomplishes helping people gain insights into their existence and how to move forward.   I hope you find Andra's time with us informative and instructive.     About the Guest:   Andra supports entrepreneurs and leaders to be in their power and conviction, so they land on bigger stages, command higher fees and create meaningful impact. Purpose, Power & Presence.   Along with a 25 -year background in kinesiology and education, Andra is multi-certified as a coach, with enhanced training in energetic and embodiment techniques, including Law of Attraction, Reiki, Akashic Records, Tapping and Quantum Flow.   This unique combination of skills coupled with her intuitive and innate understanding of the body and energy and ability to uncover dormant soul gifts, allows her to support her clients in a deeply integrated way, creating lasting change and expedited results.   She has recently received a breast cancer diagnosis and is truly being asked to walk her talk as she faces the unexpected and a lot of unknowns. Part of her mission and purpose is to share her journey to support others, and though this is health related, how to apply this to any path people are currently walking. Ways to connect with Andra:   Website: https://www.andrawochesen.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andra-wochesen-purposepowerpresence/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andra_energycoach/# You-Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@andrawochesen To your listeners, here is a link for my Personal Power Activation Series https://andrawochesen.simplero.com/personalpoweractivation     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:28 We really appreciate you taking the time to listen to us or watch us and our guest Andra Wochesen who is going to talk to us about a variety of things, and one of the things that I will tell you is she has a degree in kinesiology, and she'll have to define that. I'm not going to, although I now know what it means and I know how to pronounce it, mostly because she told me. But I really am excited to have her be on the podcast today, because one of the things that I really enjoyed about and it's not necessarily the most enjoyable subject, but because of the things that she has done now in her life, she is facing personal tests to prove that what she teaches and coaches is real, because she's having to go through some of it, and I know that she will talk about that a little bit later. We'll get to it. But Andra, I want to thank you for being on a stoppable mindset.   Andra Wochesen ** 02:21 Thank you so much, Michael. I'm so happy to be here, and so love what you're about and how you show up in the world, and I'm so happy to be connected with like minded people making an impact, and happy to be connected to your audience. And I hope something I share today will be of service.   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 Well, I hope so, and I think that, we usually find that it is and we're we're really glad you're here to share it, which is as good as it gets. So I'd like to start by maybe learning about the early Andra growing up and so on. Why don't you tell us about some of that and kind of how that led you to maybe some of the things that you're doing now? Sure, sure.   Andra Wochesen ** 02:58 Yeah. I mean, yes, I'm the end places that I'm a coach, and I work with embodiment and energy. And I think the first years of my life were me being a very active child, being very adventurous, loving to have new experiences, very much being athletic. I was a competitive gymnast in my younger years. And yeah, I think I really enjoyed being in my body and using my body as a vehicle to sort of express myself. So, definitely active, definitely adventurous, definitely independent. And yeah, really enjoyed the experience of, yeah, going new places, seeing new people, and doing some things that challenge my body in big ways.   Michael Hingson ** 03:46 So what made you deviate from going into competitive gymnastics?   Andra Wochesen ** 03:51 Oh, I wasn't good enough. Oh, okay, yeah, I was good enough for where I was, but yeah, it was enough. I think, yeah, I think I stopped that around 11 or 12. Actually, it's quite a it's quite a vigorous sport. And yeah, I was quite aware of my capacity and my desire, actually, to, it takes a lot to get to that, to the caliber of like, Olympic athlete or something, right? So that wasn't, I wasn't good enough, and I didn't have, didn't desire to go down that path   Michael Hingson ** 04:21 well. And that's, of course, a significant part of it is there's a lot that you have to desire to do to really go down that path in whatever sport or whatever you want to compete in and be about. So I understand,   Andra Wochesen ** 04:35 yeah, yeah, yeah, that commitment and choice and yeah, I think, as you speak, about unstoppable, right? There is an element that requires so much conviction on our end to be able to really commit and follow through with whatever it is that we are wanting to follow through and commit with.   Michael Hingson ** 04:55 Well, so you say, around 11 or 12, you decided. That you weren't going to continue down that. What did you   Andra Wochesen ** 05:04 do? Oh, I mean, I continued to still be athletic and still played. I still did gymnastics. I was, you know, still quite good at it, so I did that through high school, but played a variety of other team sports. And I think, yeah, maybe define myself less on the athleticism, but still included it, and sort of brought in more of some other interests. I think that I had maybe more around, yeah, just travel friends. I mean, that's what you do in high school and university.   Michael Hingson ** 05:34 So where did you go to university? I   Andra Wochesen ** 05:39 went. I'm in Canada. So I went to McMaster, yeah, which is in Hamilton. It's a great school. Now, where is that? That's in Hamilton, which is I live in Toronto now. So Hamilton is about 45 minutes away. Hamilton is between, let's say, Toronto, Niagara Falls, the main cities, you would know. So, yeah, I went to McMaster for four years for my phys ed kinese degree, and then I went to Queen's University for my teaching degree. So that's sort of my educational background.   Michael Hingson ** 06:07 So you you got a teaching degree, did you want to go off and be a teacher? Or what did you want to do exactly? Or did you know   Andra Wochesen ** 06:15 I was a teacher? I did very strategically choose in my growing up, I think being athletic, I also coached teams. I also was a camp counselor, so I was very much involved in guiding other people. So I think especially in athletic pursuits, and even I mentioned this, even I did volunteer at the Canadian National Institute for the Blind and was a runner for someone there, helped them run track. So I think going into teaching, and especially phys ed teaching, made perfect sense. So I did. I did do that for 10 years, and then moved on to some other things.   Michael Hingson ** 06:56 So how long ago was it that you were a runner at CNIB, that   Andra Wochesen ** 07:01 was a long time ago. That was like, 30 years ago. Yeah, yes, that was like, sort of in my, I don't know, maybe early 20s, something like that. Okay, tell,   Michael Hingson ** 07:11 tell us a little bit more about how that. I'm just curious how that process worked. So you, you worked at the you volunteered at the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, and you and so people wanted to run. And how did, how did you make that work?   Andra Wochesen ** 07:26 So I was a guide runner. So I think I did a very, very I work with different people. There various people. And I think one, one of the young men really wanted to run track, and they had a big event at, I believe, was Variety Village, I believe. And so it was he wanted to do, I think it was 400 meters again, excuse me, it's been a long time. So it was a run. And so, yeah, to be able, I was a guide runner, so I ran, held his hands, but he obviously did the work and ran. But I was there as a as a runner to support that.   Michael Hingson ** 08:00 But you had to be able to run fast enough to keep up with whatever speed he was in produce, yeah, for   Andra Wochesen ** 08:05 sure, absolutely, yeah, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 08:09 yeah. I know people in the United States who are blind runners and do work with with people to guide. And of course, that's the whole point. But obviously, the the guides have to be in good enough physical shape also to make sure that they're able to let the person run at their own pace and hopefully set world records. I don't know who has but you know, nevertheless,   Andra Wochesen ** 08:35 yes, to let them have their full self expression right of what they were wanting to do, and your eye was just there on the side to make sure that he was able to run as fast as and get where he wanted to go and achieve the results he wanted to achieve.   Michael Hingson ** 08:52 Could when you were when you were acting as a guide. How did that work? That is to say, I'm assuming that the person couldn't necessarily run totally on their own. How did, how did you keep people running straight or where they needed to go again?   Andra Wochesen ** 09:09 It's a long time. I believe it was just hands right, and my hands in front, so that, or maybe at the side right, just so that there was a hand. There was a tactile component. It wasn't voice. It was definitely cut, so it was just more like guiding, to make sure that he was able to stay no well, he knew when to start, but to stay within the lines to be able to follow the track, and then obviously, to be able to cross the finish line.   Michael Hingson ** 09:35 Yeah, because they, they didn't have ropes or anything between lanes that he could follow. So he needed a person, or she, depending on who you guided, they needed your assistance. Because the bottom line is that the the tracks don't have ropes or anything like that to divide the various lanes. Yeah,   Andra Wochesen ** 09:54 yes, yeah. So it was, there may be different things. Now, you know, I'm not sure, but I'm   Michael Hingson ** 09:59 aware that there are. But I'm not a runner, so   Andra Wochesen ** 10:01 yeah, yeah. So it's a very Yeah. It's a very Yeah. I've been involved in that sort of stuff, whether it's been volunteer or paid in my whole life, basically helping other people to sort of reach their goals and to fully self Express. And so I think that's, you know, definitely been a piece of what's led me to the work that I do today. Mm, hmm.   Michael Hingson ** 10:27 So, so you taught, where did you teach? For 10 years,   Andra Wochesen ** 10:32 I taught mainly. I taught in middle schools. I was, yeah, thanks. So I taught grade seven and eight. Mostly grade seven, little bit of grade six. I last year I taught grade four. I taught phys ed. The whole time I was like the the head of phys ed, so I coached all the teams and organized the track meets and did things like that. But I also had an under second teachable of French. So I actually taught French as well as math and English. You know, those weren't my favorite, but I Oh, yeah, I did love teaching, yeah, phys ed and health health, actually, I loved because that's very much like, it's kind of like coaching, right? It's actually helping, yeah, I love those, those classes as well, with that age group.   Michael Hingson ** 11:16 Now, my wife, my late wife, was a teacher for 10 years, and she always said that the students she liked best were third graders, because they were old enough that they could make some decisions, but they were also young enough that they were able to be influenced, and they hadn't got so set in their ways that they were problem students like even from fourth grade on, did you have a favorite grade?   Andra Wochesen ** 11:43 Yeah, not grade seven. That's why I'm not doing it.   Michael Hingson ** 11:46 So I would agree with you,   Andra Wochesen ** 11:49 yeah, so that was the bulk of my teaching career was grade seven. So they're not easy, and they don't necessarily want to be there. So yeah, it didn't feel like the most aligned path. I was actually certified to teach high school, but it was very hard to get into high school teaching here. And I think if I would have, I probably would still be doing that, because it's a little bit more pure in the phys ed component. So yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:15 well, the you know, I wanted to be a teacher, and ended up going in different directions anyway, but still, I think that I do get to teach. And I think even this podcast offers teaching moments which is, which is pretty good, but I appreciate what you and Karen, my wife, say about all of that, because it is a it is a big challenge. Do you think that one of her comments and was that parents aren't really becoming as involved as they should be, and so they they kind of treat teachers like babysitters, and then the kids go home and they do whatever they're going to do, but they don't really as actively provide a lot of the guidance that they should. Did you find that up in Canada as well?   Andra Wochesen ** 13:05 I would say again, it's been 20 years now. Say that for the most part, it just really depends. Like, a lot of parents were very engaged and very and then I think, yeah, there were kids that were challenging at school because they didn't have a lot of structure or support at home. So it's a, it's a, it's a, really a. It's a privilege to be a teacher, to be taking, not necessarily taking care of people's children, but you are, on some level, being an influence for them. And so yeah, I would say for the most part, there was a lot of parental support, but I know that's not always the case, and I do think, yeah, there's some kids who had not very much parental support and required more at school.   Michael Hingson ** 13:52 Karen had challenges with a lot of kids until she realized something, and I don't even remember what caused it to happen, but she taught at a school where, as she put it, there were a lot of latch key kids. That is, they they were really responsible for themselves. The parents worked and so on. They went. The kids went home at the end of the day, and they were on their own. And when she realized that kids weren't going home necessarily to total parental supervision and so on, and that they in fact, the children were learning how to be responsible to a large degree on their own. That kind of changed her view and the way she interacted with kids, and apparently became a whole lot more effective and a whole lot more of a teacher who could exert a positive influence on the kids.   Andra Wochesen ** 14:46 That's great. I mean, I think ultimately, we're all sovereign beings, even if we're children. And I think, yeah, whatever situations we are, sort of handed Yeah, I think there's a lot of. Um growth in that, and I think being able to support that is what we're what we're here to do, whether we're a formal teacher or a guide or a podcast host, right? We're all here to sort of meet people where they're at and also in their greatness and also in their challenges, and then also in their capacity.   Michael Hingson ** 15:20 People are where they are, and we don't really have the right, much less all of the gifts to necessarily force people to change how they behave and so on. And I think the best that we can do is to try to set positive examples and and either people will see that, or kids will see that, or they won't.   Andra Wochesen ** 15:43 Yeah, one of the biggest things, and you know, it's part of the work I do now around seeing people's gifts. That's part of the akashics work that I do. But I know, even as a teacher, one of the greatest strengths that supported me was that I chose to focus on the strengths in the children and really reflect that to them, and have them see that within themselves. And everybody has different approaches. Some people would be focused on, like, you need to improve here. This needs to happen. And of course, I think we all have areas of growth and improvement, but I believe, and I've seen, I've literally been in this field for 30 years, whether it's teaching, you know, young people or adults, we I have found that most people thrive when they're recognized in their greatness and their gifts, not in their areas of weakness. How do you do that? How do I do that? So, I mean, I think I did it innately. When I was a teacher, I just intuited that that was the it's easy. We can all see people's gifts, and we can all choose to focus on those gifts. We can do that in our personal relationships. We can choose. We always get choice in terms of what we focus on. So I believe that there's we all have that innate ability, whether we exercise it or not, is is up to us. And then I have, you know, certified in some different modalities that help me help people uncover what some of those gifts are. I originally did something called the Passion Test, where I help people really distill what their true passions were. And so that's a really, really helpful tool. And then I also do Akashic Records, which is like a an energetic database, which we can talk about further if you want or not. Doesn't matter, but it's, it's a I'm able to access people's records for them and really discern what their top level gifts are, and then share that with them. And so when I'm sharing it with them, it's not usually like they have no idea they most people know what their innate gifts are, but when it's reflected in a certain way from a soul level perspective, it's a very validating experience, and it helps to reignite those gifts in people, so that they are then very self aware of what those gifts are and how they can use them to both impact their themselves and their career and their family, right? There's there's lots of ways to apply our gifts if we really tune in to what they are,   Michael Hingson ** 18:18 whether it's children or adults, there's always a lot to be said for the whole concept of validation. If you are really validating someone, especially when you're dealing with their gifts and you're validating them, you're praising them, you're encouraging them for what they are and what they do, that has to count for a lot. I would think.   Andra Wochesen ** 18:38 I think so. I think you're speaking to a deeper level than the ego or the mind. You're actually speaking to the depth of some who someone is, and they feel that. And there's a, there's a, I'm going to say, like an embodied response to that. There's a deep feeling.   Michael Hingson ** 18:56 Well, so you taught for 10 years, and then what, what made you decide to deviate from just being a professional teacher in the classroom, as it were, or or going around the field, running,   Andra Wochesen ** 19:08 yes, chair, yeah, I felt like actually had a bit of a rough I'm not, I don't need to get into that. But it was, I had a tough year about year seven or eight, and it just kind of flipped the dial for me in terms of, I'm not sure this is what I want to do with the rest of my life. So I did stick it out for a couple more years. It's a lot of education and a lot of experience that I was working with, and so I did try some different things, taught different grades, but ultimately I realized that it wasn't, it was a little soul sucking for me, and in some ways, and I knew that there was more or a better way for me to actually use the gifts that I have. And so I just, I chose to to leave, which is not that common. I know it's a little different. Different in the US in terms of teaching and salaries and things like that. In Canada, I would say it's a very, it's a very good profession to be in. It's a very, it's a good salary. It's so it wasn't easy to leave it, but my higher knowing knew that it was the right thing for me to do.   Michael Hingson ** 20:20 So what did you then go do?   Andra Wochesen ** 20:23 So then I went, I became a Pilates instructor, and so that is movement education. And so I got to use my phys ed background and my kinesiology background to work with bodies. And I also trained the new teachers. Because, yeah, I had an expertise in teaching, and so I was a trainer of teachers. So yeah, I was involved in certifying new teachers. So yeah, did that, and then I worked one on one with clients, which was a really nice change for me, coming from a classroom of 30 people, being able to work with people in a one on one capacity and just have that so that felt very Yeah, it felt very aligned for me to be able to have a one on one connection and to be able to serve people really deeply, and yeah, I didn't have to mark tests and all that kind of stuff, right?   Michael Hingson ** 21:19 There's something to be said for that, yes, for sure, and you didn't have to make out report cards at the end of the year. Yes, yes, yeah. There's a   Andra Wochesen ** 21:27 lot of work that goes in there. You know, people talk a lot about summers off, but there's a lot of stuff that happens that is quite, quite labor intensive in teaching.   Michael Hingson ** 21:37 My niece is a kindergarten teacher. Actually, this year she's teaching pre kindergarten, but she would definitely agree with you, and talks about all the things that they have to do during the summer and all the preparation and and more important nowadays, at least down here, the amount of money that she has to spend out of her own salary just to buy supplies that the school district, for whatever reason, doesn't have funding to provide, and the teachers spend a fair amount of money keeping their students engaged with the things that they have to buy, that they know that the students need, but that the district doesn't provide.   Andra Wochesen ** 22:17 Yeah, I mean, I think that just, I can't speak obviously, to your country and how you do things, or what, what the what's involved. But I think it speaks to the desire that I'm going to say, all people have to support others. But I think teachers specifically, not even specifically, but teachers do have a big passion for helping people. And so I think that just speaks to the level that they're willing to go to in order to really support the next generation. So I think there is such a there's such a gift in and I hope that more and more people will appreciate teachers, because I think it's they are very vital, I think in shaping lots of things so well.   Michael Hingson ** 23:04 I think to at least a degree, most people like to teach that is to say they, if somebody asks them a question, Will will take the time oftentimes, to answer. They'll explain why they do what they do, or they'll explain whatever the question is about. I know, when I was in professional sales and managing a sales force, one of the things that I told every person that I hired was, for the next year, at least, you're a student, don't hesitate to ask questions, because the people who are your customers and your clients, if you're asking good, intelligent questions of them, they will want to answer you and engage you, and that can only help you. And what it what you do further down the line with them as well.   Andra Wochesen ** 23:52 Yeah, I think, I believe that we're all here to light the path for those behind us in whatever way we choose to do that.   Michael Hingson ** 24:01 Yeah. Yeah. And it is a, it is an art to do it well. And not everybody is a great teacher, but I think a lot of people do like to import, impart knowledge, at least to some degree, which is great, sure. Yeah. So you are Pilates instructor for a while, and then what did you do? Well?   Andra Wochesen ** 24:19 Then I Yeah, again, my soul always wants to expand, and I think that I felt like it was good, but it wasn't the full use of my gifts. And so that's when I sort of went down the coaching path. I realized I liked the one on one connection. I realized I'm very intuitive in general, but very intuitive with the body. So when I was working with my Pilates clients, I was able to almost tune into sort of, I'm going to say, even emotional blocks. Or I could tune into why their bodies weren't functioning the way they wanted to function. And so it just naturally evolved into desiring to bring a coaching element into the work that I did. And so for a number of years, I did both. Growth, and then after about 15 years of being at the teaching Pilates, I decided to just transition full time to coaching. So that's what I've been doing for the last, I don't know, five or six years full time   Michael Hingson ** 25:13 well, so tell us more about that. What you do, and I know you've talked and referred to a few times the Akashic records and so on. So don't hesitate to talk about some of that as well.   Andra Wochesen ** 25:26 Yeah, I think really what I do is help people connect to their innate power and their innate presence, so that they and their deepest gifts. So those are probably the deepest things. Purpose, power, presence is sort of how I label it, and within that, it's their sole gifts, what they're here to do, what their purpose is, what they want to really contribute on the planet. That's really who I'm helping so often it's entrepreneurs, sometimes it's leaders, sometimes it's high profile people in their industry, and so really I'm helping them connect to the depth of who they are really so that they can express that in the work that they do. So for some people, yeah, it's a it's about creating a bigger presence, a bigger platform, creating more impact, getting in front of more audiences, being able to command higher fees. All of this comes from a deep connection to your own knowing of who you are and what you how you're designed to serve. And so I really that's the it's the crux of what I do is you can hopefully see the thread throughout my whole life is really around helping people connect to who they really are at their core, how, what their innate gifts are, how they want to share those gifts, and how they can use those gifts to not only create a better, more aligned or whatever, what's what I want to say, prosperous life Experience for themselves through I love working with people who want to do what they love, right? That's really people who are trailblazers, people who want to create a new path, people who want to create meaning, want to create impact. And that's it's a I love it, and it's not an easy path. And so I really help people break through anything, holding them back from really going for it, because so many people that I work with, we are blazing new paths. Right? You do have to sell yourself. You do have to make your own opportunities. You do have to create your own platform. You have to do that in your podcast, right? There's everybody is we are here to do, I think this is what we are all here to do, is to really share our gifts in the biggest way possible. And yeah, sometimes people need help to be able to show that fully and to be able to shine as brightly as they're designed to to shine so that they can, yeah, receive Yeah, bigger opportunities, bigger platforms, more ability to continue on the path that they're on.   Michael Hingson ** 28:03 Do you find that there are a number of people who don't really know where they want to go or what they want to do? They're they're kind of being a little bit more aimless than they really need to be.   Andra Wochesen ** 28:17 It's interesting. I'm sure there are. When I first started, I was more of a life purpose coach, so I did, did sort of interact with people who are kind of lost and maybe a bit directionless. And so I think absolutely there, I don't even like that word that sounds very judgmental, right, just unsure of what they want to do. And so I think absolutely there are lots of people, and what I believe, and what I see now is that people wouldn't, who come to me wouldn't say that they're lost, but they something's not quite working, or they are ready for a next iteration. I believe we're always expanding and evolving, and so is our purpose and our direction, right? And so and sometimes we're going down a path and it works out really well, and we expand it. And sometimes we're going down a path and it doesn't work out so well, or we get a roadblock, as you know, I have one right now that kind of comes into our experience, and it causes us to course correct. So I feel like there's a lot of course correction next iteration. And to me, I use the words always elevation and expansion, because I think we are designed to continually evolve and expand. And so I think it's yeah, there's, there's all levels of people on the spectrum in terms of, like, knowing what I'm going to do with my life, or how I want to share in the world   Michael Hingson ** 29:30 well. And there's nothing wrong with the whole concept of life is all about expanding and exploring.   Andra Wochesen ** 29:39 Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So   Michael Hingson ** 29:42 there's, there's nothing wrong with that, and also developing an ongoing strong desire to learn. The people that I find the most challenging to deal with are the ones who decide they know it all and they don't have any. Thing to learn, because they probably have the most to learn.   Andra Wochesen ** 30:03 Of course, of course, yeah, there's such a gift in the openness to Yeah. I'm using the word evolve, but learn, expand, grow, all of it's the same, right? It's like, there's, there's, yeah. It's, for me, it's one of my biggest values. And I think, I think there are a lot of people who prioritize growth, and then there are other people who don't. So it's choice, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 30:31 oh, I hear you. I understand what you're saying. Tell me more about the whole concept of the Akashic records. Oh,   Andra Wochesen ** 30:37 sure, sure, yeah, of course. Yeah. So I told you we'd bring it up. Yeah. So the Akashic records are an energetic database of our soul level information, and so it's like we all have akashics, and it's, it's our soul level information we can all access, and you may even access this information yourself in a meditation, or you receive some guidance on something, but you may be actually in your Akashic records. And so our cash checks sort of have our lifetimes of like lessons of opportunities for growth. Our gifts are it's like it's literally a soul level database of information. And so you can access, we can each access our own, but I am certified to go into people's akashics with their permission, on their behalf, and sort of retrieve relevant information to support them on their life's journey. So that's really, yeah. How do you do that? Well, it's a, yeah, it's quite it's a step by step. I mean, it's a certification. So I'm really tuning in. So there's a whole series of I'm going to say, questions that I ask, and first I get someone's birth date, full name, full name, full current name, full name at birth, date of birth, place of birth, so that's really key, so that I am accessing the right soul. And then there are a series of questions that I ask to determine whether the soul wants me to access this information. And then, yeah, most of the time, I'm kind of going in with very specific questions around soul gifts. But sometimes people come to me with very specific questions, but usually it's some version of like, what's keeping me stuck or I want to get here, or how can I use my gifts in a better way? Or is this a i can even do Akashic records for businesses? So Right? Which is the most aligned business opportunity, which is the most best way to market? What I do? Right? We we have different gifts ourselves. So again, just for me, I am not designed to market, but I'm very good for people to experience me. So I I'm good when I'm on a video, or if I lead a workshop, or if I have a conversation with someone, so when people have an experience, or if they read a Client Testimonial, so that's for me, the way my soul is designed to market. Your soul might not be designed that way at all, right? And so it's really good to have we can get all of this information that actually helps us be more aligned, more successful, more prosperous, right? We can actually be like we have a blueprint. We actually have a soul blueprint that will help us do the best that we possibly can in this lifetime. Mm,   Michael Hingson ** 33:31 hmm. How did you learn to do that?   Andra Wochesen ** 33:35 I mean, it was a certification process. So it was a called Soul realignment. That's where I learned, and it was a numerous, numerous courses, numerous practice clients, like any, like, all of my coaching certification, right? There's, um, yeah, there's a lot of people call them, and it's all fine. Everybody can do a lot of people will call themselves a coach, but, and people can be good coaches, but there's actually coach training that people go through. And there's hundreds and hundreds of practice client hours where you actually are learning sort of in the field, just as I did as a teacher. So yeah, it's just another one of the I'm going to say pieces that I bring to my coaching. So I just sort of integrate this all into my sessions with clients.   Michael Hingson ** 34:21 Got it. So there are places where you actually take these courses, or how does that work? I   Andra Wochesen ** 34:27 have done all of my training online, okay, all of it online from all over the world, actually. Yeah, that's the beauty of the internet, right? It's, it's yeah. I've done, yeah, I've done all of my practice and some stuff in person, for sure, I've done some stuff in person, but I've done a lot of, even all of my coaching. Now, I do a few in person retreats, but most of it is virtual. Most of it is zoom coaching. And I didn't know if I would like it, but I do. It's you can actually form quite a nice connection with people via the internet, right?   Michael Hingson ** 34:59 Do you. You're able to to establish as good a connection, doing it through the internet as you would, and as you do, if you're actually conducting an in person event,   Andra Wochesen ** 35:11 you know, yes, I'd say in some ways more so, and then in some ways less so. So I think there are, there are in person, there's, there's something really beautiful in being in someone else's energy, me being in theirs, and they're being in mine, and very also hands. My hands are very, very hands on. So that can be very helpful to have that presence. But I also find online, there can be a spaciousness that actually allows people almost to open up more, because they actually have their own space. So I have, yeah, I've been doing both for years, and I enjoy both. I'm going to say that, and I don't not just about me enjoying it. The benefits for my clients are both in person and virtual, or I would say equal   Michael Hingson ** 36:04 when the pandemic began and we started doing so many things virtually, for me, personally, I never feared it, because we even in an in person environment. I'm not, I don't how do I say this in a positive way? I look at the person, I see the person, but the way I see the person is not physically, necessarily, with the eyes, in in any different way, virtually than I would if I'm doing this in person, and I find that I'm able to interact with people well through zoom. I think Zoom is the more most accessible of the various conferencing technologies is out there, but I think that if you work at it, you can establish a good relationship through zoom, and you can do the kinds of work that you need to do. Unfortunately, too many people talk about it in such a way that they fear it, or they just become tired of doing things in a way that's different than what they're used to, which is totally in person, and that's detracting them from maybe having as positive an experience as they could   Andra Wochesen ** 37:21 Yeah, I agree that's well said, and I think, I think it's always about presence. And so when, yeah, when we're connecting on the internet, it's not, it's a machine or it's, it's whatever it is, right? But it's you showing up fully, making eye contact with people, not being distracted, being fully present, which is what actually allows people to feel seen and feel heard, and I think that it also allows you to be accessing people and opportunities all over the world, right? And so I will even say, when I first started doing this, there was a lot of people, especially when I started doing working more with entrepreneurs, they're like, I'm busy. I don't really have time to, like, drive across the city and come to your office and meet with you. You know, can we do this? And so it actually is very time efficient, right? You don't have to travel you. You are able to fit lots of things into your day, right? So I think there's, there's real benefits to it. And I think again, it's ultimately how present people are a computer or in person.   Michael Hingson ** 38:37 It's, it's all about, in part, accepting a different way of doing things, perhaps than you're used to, and accepting that it may not be any less equal to do it in a different way than the way you would normally do something. That is to say, is it really worse? Is it really different to do it virtually? Or can it really be just as much an equivalent kind of thing? And I think that that is mostly a matter of what we're what we choose to accept. Now, for me, there are challenges with things like doing virtual presentations with Zoom, if people don't communicate in a way that I can fully understand, or if they're sharing screens and don't describe what's on the screen. But the reality is that's just as true if I'm sitting in an in person environment and people are displaying slides and doing other things where they don't describe it. So it comes down to the same thing you can accomplish if you do it right.   Andra Wochesen ** 39:47 Yeah, and I think it comes down like what we said before, what where your focus is? Are you focusing on the gifts of something or the negative areas? Just like we were talking about kids gifts. In school, right? So it's like, if you can see what are the benefits to this virtual experience, if your focus is there, every you know what we focus on expands and where we direct our our focus is what informs how we feel. And so I think if we are choosing to look for the benefits of whatever we are, whatever situation we're in, you'll find them right. And the more you focus on them, the more they'll expand right   Michael Hingson ** 40:28 well. So you referred a couple of times, and I did at the very beginning a little bit to, I think, as you put it, you've had some things that have challenged your path and that you've had to work through, especially as late. Want to talk about some of that.   Andra Wochesen ** 40:44 Yeah. I mean, I yeah, I had to wait until I was ready to share this piece. But I feel like part of my mission and purpose is to support, is to share my journey to support other people. And so I think there's my journey as an entrepreneur that supports people, and this is now a journey with breast cancer, and so it's a health journey that I didn't expect to be sharing with people, and I have had to, obviously decide when and how I want to share it. So, yeah, I was diagnosed in early February and so, and I have yet to have treatment. So I think the reason I thought it was important to even share this is for people even to be able to relate to anything that they receive. So I'm calling it like how to navigate a difficult diagnosis with grace. So I'm not even at the treatment stage. I'm in the unknown, and I've been in the unknown for three months now, and I have been in the known that I have cancer, so I've actually had to hold the fact that I have cancer in my body, but not have any treatment yet for three months. So there's there's something in that being able to hold the unknown and the unexpected and be able to walk my talk, right, which is to maintain my center and my groundedness within myself and not get pulled into a freak out place of like, why aren't they acting faster? Why is this taking so long? And this, is this going to be spreading because they're not doing anything? So I think there's a there's the piece around that that I think I wanted to offer and share, I think, and I think, um, yeah, it's it. What I really realized for myself is, um, I was like, Oh, I'm going to be the person who really navigates this was with grace, and I'm going to be inspirational in this. And then I really realized, and then there were days where I was like, Oh, I'm the opposite of inspirational right now. I am like, grumpy, I'm crying, I'm mad, and I'm like, and then I kind of realized that actually that is inspirational, and that is handling a difficult diagnosis. And so one of the things I do teach people is really to feel what is there and to actually tune into your body. And so I think this journey has actually, and it's just beginning, right? It's not, I'm not even meeting with a surgeon tomorrow for hopefully next steps, but I've had four biopsies, I've had a lot of things. I've had a lot of invasive procedures to determine what next steps are. And so, yeah, and so it's just finding this balance, I think, between continuing. So today, it's like, I have a client. This morning, I had another call, and then now I'm on a podcast, and then tomorrow I'm seeing the surgeon, right? So it's, it's being able to and then my husband's actually going for surgery the next day. So it's being able to navigate all of these things at once. And yeah, on some level, I want to just say, like allowing I'm really just allowing myself to be where I am, and some days I am great, and doing a podcast and coaching clients, because that fills me up. And then there are other days where I'm so angry and I'm so sad and there's some fear, and so it's and then so I feel like those two pieces, it's like allowing the hard pieces to be there, and then also having a knowing that there's a higher path and purpose for this. I don't know exactly. I already know I'm growing and expanding because of this, and I know there will be more. And then I think just the third piece I want to share is that my intuition has always been strong, but it's non negotiable now. And so I again, I'm just offering this for your listeners, right? Just tuning into how to tune into your own inner voice in terms of, what do I need right now? What treatment do I want to pursue? There's a lot of different pieces, and there are a lot of different voices that can be out there, but really the power of having this deep connection to yourself. Truth and trusting yourself to or God or spirit or source, however you want to see it, to help guide the process.   Michael Hingson ** 45:08 When you say your intuition is non negotiable, what do you mean by that?   Andra Wochesen ** 45:13 Listening to my intuitions for that would have been better way to say it. Listening to my intuition is non negotiable. So I will Intuit, if I'm able to work today, I will Intuit I've been intuiting that my body just wants citrus right now, and I'm just, I'm just giving it that, and I have actually learned that that's actually really helpful for cancer cells. So this is me intuiting this long before I heard this information. So it's tuning in and hearing this information and then acting on it. And so, yeah, I think it's it's just we all have intuition, and I think in times like this, we have to get still and get quiet and make sure that we're listening to the inner guidance that we are receiving.   Michael Hingson ** 46:01 So you say you got diagnosed in February, so it's been two months going on three. Why is it taking so long? Maybe it's not, but why is it taking so long to get treatment? Or is this typical?   Andra Wochesen ** 46:16 I don't like, I don't think there is typical. So that's one thing I would say. And I think this surgeon just wants to be very thorough. So for me personally, I mean, this is maybe too much information, but I have dense breasts, so it's very hard for him to see. He doesn't want to just go in. There is cancer there, but he needed to do other biopsies and do other testing, other MRIs to see if there was more so that he doesn't have to operate cut once or whatever they say, Right? He's like, he wants to go in and do take care of everything that needs to be taken care of, right? And so he's doing his due diligence. And so that just takes some time, right? Takes time to get in for appointments. It takes time to get results for appointments.   Michael Hingson ** 47:04 It's a it's a process. I know I can relate to, to what you're saying. I had over the past few years, and it was growing worse pain, especially in my left arm, and I finally talked to my doctor about it. I was going in to just have some standard blood draws and a couple of vaccinations in December. And I mentioned to the doctor this was going on. And I said, What do we do to try to figure this out? And he said, Well, put a couple other blood tests in just to see what, what might show up. And I find that my doctor is as a pretty bright guy, and so he didn't really go into much detail, other than we'll do blood tests and see, well, turns out that one of the blood tests that he ordered was for a heart enzyme called troponin that is produced by the heart when it's not behaving properly. And so on December 23 I learned that my troponin level was at 1100 92 when normally it should be between zero and 20. And I was taken off to an emergency room. We were actually still at the clinic getting vaccinations. When they had done the blood draws and they stat they just did them right away. They did the tests and got the results anyway. The problem was that when they when they did the tests and the blood tests, it took a day, even though they took me right to an emergency room and I sat there for a day, literally before they did an angiogram and a an echocardiogram to determine that there was a bad heart valve, and then nobody did anything with the information. And what so what they should have done was to have me sign forms to send them to my doctor, or given me copies of the CDs with the images to take to the doctor. And nobody talked about doing any of that, and nobody did any of that, and literally, it was like over a month before the doctor even got the information. And nobody seemed to be worried about it in the doctor's environment, which was at the clinic where I had all my other stuff done, or at the bigger hospital related to it. And it was just very strange, and then when they finally did get the information, even then there wasn't a lot of urgency. And for me, it wasn't a matter of being so much angry as puzzlement about why there wasn't a more of an emergency. You got a bad heart valve. It could stop anytime, right? Anyway, it. Took three months before they finally did do an operation and put in an artificial valve. So that was done in March of this year. So it was basically three months after the the initial diagnosis, and now everything is fine, but it is. I know that for me, what I chose to do was not panic. I chose not to be stressed. So during the time I was in the emergency room for that day, I found lots of ways to be entertained by listening to other people. And I had a couple things to listen to. I had recorded books and so on, but it was much more entertaining to listen to other people around me. And all the way up through the surgery, I chose not to be stressed, and it was a little bit tempting to not get too angry because they were taking so long. But still, my choice was not to be worried by all that, because that could only make matters worse. And when we did the surgery, I came right out of it, and started joking with the doctors right away, and they didn't believe that I was coming out of the anesthetic so fast, but I did and and we had a lot of fun with it, but it is, it is interesting. We do have the ability to make choices, and we can choose to move forward in a positive way or not. And I think if we don't choose to do that, and we we allow ourselves to be controlled by our fears, that's really where too many times, we have too many problems that we don't deal with nearly as well as we can.   Andra Wochesen ** 51:36 Yeah, I think choice is key, right? We have a choice what we think. We have a choice how we feel. And I do want to say I'm a big advocate of positive mindset, but I'm also a very big advocate of feeling your feelings. And so I think there's a difference between true feelings and feelings where we create a story around the feelings, and I think it's, I just really want to voice that today, in terms of people not pasting over feelings. I think there's a, yeah, there's a place for all of it. I think getting stuck in negativity or bad feelings or hard feelings is not where we want to be, but suppressing them if they're there, is also not a good place to be. And I think in fact, for me, in this I can be elevated very easily, because it's what I do for a living. But I think me being much more vocal about the challenges of this or the anger, has actually opened up a stronger conviction in me that is actually opening up more power in my expression. And so I feel I just really wanted to presence that in this moment, because I think it's really key to be yes, obviously choosing, choosing our focus and seeing. We talked about that many times today, about seeing the brightness or seeing the gifts and seeing the positives. But I do think it's really important for people to feel what they need to feel. So just wanted to presence that it's what I do all the time with people, and it's one it's what I'm doing with myself.   Michael Hingson ** 53:24 Yeah, and that's why you're walking the talk and you're succeeding. How is faith imperative when navigating challenges like life, challenges like what you're facing now?   Andra Wochesen ** 53:37 Well, I think I remember one talk you said when you were in the World Trade Center and just said, like God said to you, go here or stay calm. I mean, I don't want to misquote you, but it was, I really could feel the truth of that. And so I think there is a higher power, a higher voice, whatever you want to call it, whether it is God, source, spirit, universe, Higher Self, everybody has different language for it. And I think if we can tune in and believe that things are happening for us versus to us, or that there is guidance that's available for us, it's, I think it's what I think we needed. It's, I feel like sometimes it's the only thing that will get us through the hard times, right, is really believing in, yeah, something bigger than us in our own capacity to handle things and and I'm going to say and cultivating that especially in times of challenge. Because I think when we're in times of challenge, it's easier to lose faith. And I actually think we need to double down on faith when in our in our most challenging moments.   Michael Hingson ** 54:42 What is faith?   Andra Wochesen ** 54:46 Well, that's everybody that I can't speak to that, right? That's your I'm speaking to it in my perspective, I think faith is belief in something bigger than you. I think it's faith is. Something unseen, right, something that has not yet manifested. It's believing in something that's not yet in front of you, right? So I can and choose where to place my faith, right? And you get to choose where to place it, so Right, right?   Michael Hingson ** 55:18 But you're continuing, even with the breast cancer and so on. You're continuing to coach, right?   Andra Wochesen ** 55:22 I am, until otherwise I've everybody in my world has to be flexible, because obviously I it's unknown for me in terms of what and I will never show up for a session when I'm not at my fullest capacity. So it just depends on, you know, what that looks like? You know, if I'm recovering from surgery, I'm going to take some time for myself. If I'm in chemotherapy, I'm probably not going to feel very good for certain days, so I'm not going to coach on those days. So it's about, again, me intuiting what I need for me and what serves me, and then making sure that anybody who comes into my world has a very good understanding of that.   Michael Hingson ** 56:03 Oh, can people who are experiencing this podcast with us today apply all of these lessons in their own lives and so on going forward?   Andra Wochesen ** 56:13 Well, I think it's like anything we talked about a lot of things, and I think it's whatever is landing with someone is what they're meant to hear. So there I, you know, very specifically, gave three things around my cancer diagnosis, which I'll reiterate, for people to apply, because I think it's like three steps see the higher perspective of whatever situation or circumstance that you're in that feels like a challenge, whether that is a work challenge, a relationship challenge, a health challenge. Number two, I think, is tuning in to your intuitive guidance, and let's say faith in that container, in that number two. And then I think number three is allowing yourself to express the humanness, which I talked about here, right? Allowing yourself to feel what you feel. Yes, choose the higher perspective when you can. But there are times where tears need to flow, or where you are angry, and it's not about taking out anger on someone else. It's about finding a tool to be able to help you release that anger or be able to express it. So there's, there's lots of things that we can do for that. So I think it's like, yeah, I hope that people can whatever situation they're going through right now that feels even if it's not challenging, it doesn't have to be challenging. But it's like, yeah, see the bigger picture. Tune into intuitive guidance and feel what's really there for you,   Michael Hingson ** 57:41 yeah, which is really important to do. I think we we never spend our we mostly don't spend nearly enough time listening to ourselves and listening to what our inner voices have to say to us that we can use. And I think it's so important to do that,   Andra Wochesen ** 57:59 yes, every day. And I think when we're faced with challenges, it's heightened. And I believe our challenges are here to I've always listened to my inner self, but I think this cancer is like, no, no, you, you're you, you're this is here for you to do it even more. And so I think our challenges are are an opportunity for that to deepen.   Michael Hingson ** 58:20 Well, since you are coaching, and you do a lot of that, if people want to reach out to you and maybe follow up on what they're hearing today, how do they do that?   Andra Wochesen ** 58:29 My website you could do is, actually, you're on LinkedIn a lot, so probably people are listening to this on LinkedIn. So Andra Wochesen is my if you look that up on LinkedIn, Andrawochesen.com, is my website,   Michael Hingson ** 58:44 why don't you spell that? If you would Sure, sure, yeah, a,   Andra Wochesen ** 58:47 An, D, R, A, W, O, C, H, E, S, E, N, and then.com and yeah, I'm also on Instagram, a little bit under Andra underscore energy, coach, so those are the three main places that I am sort of accessible, or where people can reach out.   Michael Hingson ** 59:08 Well, I hope people will reach out. I think you've offered a lot of invaluable insights, and I think there is a lot to be said for the kinds of things that we've talked about today, because we have to listen to ourselves, and mostly we probably have to learn how to listen to ourselves. And you certainly can help with that. Yeah,   Andra Wochesen ** 59:31 that's a great way to say it, right? It is. It is a it's another choice, right? And it is a skill. And it is. It does require a moment to slow down, to really tune in and listen. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 59:42 yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to thank you for being here and spending an hour with us. Can you believe it's been an hour already we've had a lot of fun telling you conversation,   Andra Wochesen ** 59:52 yeah, lots of different topics, lots of different areas. And yeah, thank you for the opportunity to connect with you and. Your audience and to share my story and hopefully some inspiration or insight for those listening.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:08 Well, we're very grateful that you took the time to do this, and I want to express my gratitude to all of you who are out there listening or watching this, and we appreciate you doing so. I hope you liked what Andrew Watson had to say today, I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Please feel free to email me at Michael h i at accessibe.   You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week

Episode 485 / Estefania Velez RodriguezEstefania Velez Rodriguez is an artist born in Mayaguez, Puerto Rico. She received her BFA from the University of South Florida (painting)and her MFA from Brooklyn College (painting).Solo shows: Auxiliary Projects (brooklyn), Praxis Gallery (chelsea), Fordham University (midtown), Other notable shows (group shows): Marc Strauss (Manhattan), Elizabeth Foundation for the arts (manhattan), Field of Play (brooklyn), Below Grand (manhattan), Soil Gallery (seattle), University of Arkansas, Cuntshaus (tampa), Queens College, Norte Maar (brooklyn), Paradise Palace, Praxis Gallery (manhattan), Art Fair Miami (during basel, satellite location fair).She's participated in residencies at: Hidrante (puerto rico), Ucross (Wyoming), Goldeyhouse (New York), and the Vermont Studio Center. Mural Project with Norte Maar Organization & more. Her work has been covered by:Two Coats of Paint , Brooklyn Rail, Revista Marvin (mexico), Art as Form, Epicenter NYC, Centro Puerto Rico (Hunter college center for puerto rican studies artists spotlight and book cover), I like your work podcast, and Interlocutor magazine. She has taught at:Rutgers University, Pratt Institute, and Montclair State University. She has a current Group Exhibition at Marc Straus Gallery (Lower East side location), "Past Tense / Future Perfect" up until August 8th. 

The harm of diet culture in college is real! A Mental Health Registered Dietitian, Lauren Dorman is a Nutrition Therapist and Body Image Expert who has 22 years of experience working alongside children and adults struggling with food anxiety, body image, and self-esteem, as well as disordered and emotional eating. She is also a certified diabetes educator. After graduating from Penn State University, where she earned a Bachelor's degree in Nutrition, she obtained a Master's degree in Nutrition from Rutgers University. Lauren is the owner of Schools, Master Food and Mood, presenting regularly to school districts (both professional development and student lessons) and at webinars, conferences and wellness events. She is also a frequent podcast guest. Lauren is known as a change leader, devoted to strengthening the next generation's mental, physical, and emotional well-being. She believes that everyone deserves to have access to education from a Registered Dietitian -- an expert in nutrition science who can help navigate nutrition misinformation, teach sustainable health habits, enhance brain health, and focus on a self-care behavioral approach toward developing a strong relationship with food, mind, and body. Join her email community with all the resources at: https://admirable-waterfall-367.myflodesk.com/auppulni98 In episode 594 of the Fraternity Foodie Podcast, we find out why Lauren chose Penn State and Alpha Phi, what led her to specialize in body image, food anxiety, and emotional eating, how her approach to health is different than what students might see online from “wellness influencers”, what is the difference between body positivity and body neutrality, how sororities and fraternities can create an inclusive environment around body image and food, what are the biggest nutrition myths or red flags on platforms like TikTok or Instagram, how college students can protect their mental and physical health from diet culture, what are common emotional eating triggers for students, how college students can get sustainable energy without caffeine or junk food, and trends on student wellness and nutrition. Enjoy!

Two SLPs share how they arrived where they are today and what they learned along the way.First, Kelly Peña (Rutgers University/former president of ASHA's Hispanic Caucus) shares a story of the people who brought her into the profession and what she's passing on to the next generation of multilingual practitioners.Later in the episode, hear from Anusha Sundarrajan (San Francisco State University/president of the South Asian Caucus of ASHA). When her colleague suggested Anusha open a gender-affirming voice clinic, it sparked a change that's been a part of Anusha's career for more than half a decade.Learn More:ASHA Voices: Career Origin Stories – Multilingual Service ProvidersASHA Voices: What Role Can Supervisors Play in Addressing Microaggressions?ASHA Voices: Three SLPs Step Off the Beaten Career Path into New Ventures

Send us a textIn this inspiring episode of "Greetings from the Garden State," host Mike Ham welcomes Eric LeGrand at LeGrand Coffee House in Woodbridge, New Jersey. Eric shares his remarkable journey, having overcome a paralyzing injury sustained during a college football game. The episode unfolds with warm greetings and highlights LeGrand Coffee House's commitment to quality coffee that aligns with Eric's high standards. The conversation explores Eric's upbringing in Woodbridge, his passion for football, and his decision to attend Rutgers University to represent his home state.As the podcast delves into Eric's football career at Rutgers, his Denver Broncos fandom, and the origins of his jersey numbers, the host applauds Eric's dedication to the local community and his businesses. The discussion transitions to the life-changing injury on October 16, 2010, where Eric describes the moments of paralysis on the field and the subsequent uncertainty about his future. Despite the challenges, Eric emphasizes the unwavering support from his community during hospitalization and recovery.The episode covers Eric's post-injury challenges, including his three-month stay with family during house reconstruction and his commitment to continuing education through online classes. The unexpected opportunities that emerged, such as his broadcasting career, public speaking engagements, and a book deal, are explored. Eric's motivational speaking journey takes center stage, highlighting his refined storytelling skills, connection with diverse audiences, and finding purpose in his experiences.The first segment concludes, paving the way for a deeper exploration of Eric LeGrand's impactful post-injury endeavors and contributions to the community in subsequent podcast episodes. Throughout the interview, Eric's dedication to quality products under his name is evident, spanning LeGrand Coffee House, Grand Whiskey, and potential future business ventures. LeGrand Coffee House is poised for national expansion and franchise plans, while Eric's foundation, associated with the Christopher & Dana Reeve Foundation, continues to raise funds for spinal cord injury research.The episode encapsulates Eric LeGrand's resilience, entrepreneurial spirit, and commitment to making a positive impact, offering listeners insights into his ongoing recovery efforts, dedication to physical activity, and future business expansions and collaborations. The episode serves as a testament to Eric's journey and his unwavering determination to inspire and support those affected by spinal cord injuries.ericlegrand52.comGET YOUR JERSEY FEST TICKETS NOW! https://www.seetickets.us/event/jersey-fest/588283Music: "Ride" by Jackson Pinesjacksonpines.comThank you to our sponsors:New Jersey Lottery: njlottery.comHelix NJ: helixnj.comNew Jersey Innovation Institute: njii.comMake Cool Sh*t: makecoolshit.coUCS Advisors: ucsgreatness.comAlbert & Whitney CPAs:  awcpasllc.comMayo Performing Arts Center: mayoarts.org/events-calendarOMG Tarot: omgtarot.comContact the show: mike@greetingsfromthegardenstate.comSupport the showSupport the show

Kirsten Branigan was facing an existential crisis. Working at a large New Jersey law firm with young children, she felt the rubber meeting the road in a significant way. She couldn't do everything she wanted to do with her family while meeting all the firm's requirements. Instead of just accepting the situation, Kirsten made two bold decisions. She started her own employment law firm built around flexibility and empathy. And when she heard that the New Jersey Women Lawyers Association was dying out because "women of your generation don't care about these issues," she decided to prove that wrong by leading the effort to revitalize the organization. Twenty years later, Kirsten's firm is thriving as a refuge for women lawyers, and that "dying" organization now draws over 700 people to its annual gala. As someone currently conducting research with Rutgers University on women's advancement in the legal profession, she has insights on what's actually changing for women lawyers and what isn't. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Kirsten about building a law firm culture that works for women lawyers, the challenges that persist across generations, and her advice for creating change: Build an Army. 3:24 - Why Kirsten left Big Law to start her own firm after an existential crisis  5:51 - The values and culture Kirsten built into her firm from day one  9:02 - How to maintain firm ideals while dealing with business pressures  11:19 - The story of revitalizing the New Jersey Women Lawyers Association  16:03 - Current challenges women face in the legal profession based on Rutgers research  23:16 - Positive shifts and trends for women in law  28:05 - The mental health crisis in the legal profession and available resources  30:31 - Understanding generational differences and approaching them with empathy  32:40 - What lawyers can do to make the profession better for everyone  38:36 - Kirsten's advice for creating lasting change: Build an Army MENTIONED IN CREATING LAW FIRM CULTURE THAT WORKS FOR WOMEN LAWYERS KS Branigan Law PC | LinkedIn New Jersey Women Lawyers Association | LinkedIn NAMWOLF New Jersey Lawyers Assistance Program Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer's Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

“Manager and leader”? What's the difference. During my conversation this time with Scott Hanton, our guest, we will discuss this very point along with many other fascinating and interesting subjects. As Scott tells us at the beginning of this episode he grew up asking “why” about most anything you can think of. He always was a “why” asker. As he tells it, unlike many children who grow out of the phase of asking “why” he did not. He still asks “why” to this very day.   At the age of 13 Scott decided that he wanted to be a chemist. He tells us how this decision came about and why he has always stayed with it. Scott received his bachelor's degree in Chemistry from Michigan State and his PHD from the University of Wisconsin. Again, why he changed schools for his PHD work is an interesting story. As you will see, Scott tells stories in a unique and quite articulate way.   After his university days were over Scott went to work, yes as a chemist. He tells us about this and how after 20 years with one company how and why he moved to another company and somewhat out of constant lab work into some of the management, business and leadership side of a second company. He stayed there for ten years and was laid off during the pandemic. Scott then found employment as the editorial director of Lab Management Magazine where he got to bring his love of teaching to the forefront of his work.   My hour with Scott gives us all many insights into management, leadership and how to combine the two to create a strong teaming environment. I believe you will find Scott's thoughts extremely poignant and helpful in everything that you do.     About the Guest:   Scott Hanton is the Editorial Director of Lab Manager. He spent 30 years as a research chemist, lab manager, and business leader at Air Products and Intertek. Scott thrives on the challenges of problem-solving. He enjoys research, investigation, and collaboration. Scott is a people-centric, servant leader. He is motivated by developing environments where people can grow and succeed, and crafting roles for people that take advantage of their strengths.   Scott earned a BS in chemistry from Michigan State University and a PhD in physical chemistry from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He is an active member of the American Chemical Society (ACS), the American Society of Mass Spectrometry (ASMS), and the Association of Lab Managers (ALMA). As a scientist Scott values curiosity, innovation, progress, and delivery of results. Scott has always been motivated by questions beginning with why. Studying physical chemistry in graduate school offered the opportunity to hone answers to these questions. As a professional scientist, Scott worked in analytical chemistry specializing in MALDI mass spectrometry and polymer characterization.   At Scott married his high school sweetheart, and they have one son. Scott is motivated by excellence, happiness, and kindness. He most enjoys helping people and solving problems. Away from work, Scott enjoys working outside in the yard, playing strategy games, and participating in different discussion groups.   Scott values having a growth mindset and is a life-long learner. He strives to learn something new everyday and from everyone. One of the great parts of being a trained research scientist is that failure really isn't part of his vocabulary. He experiments and either experiences success or learns something new. He values both individual and organizational learning.   Scott's current role at Lab Manager encompasses three major responsibilities: ·      Writing articles and giving presentations to share his experience with lab managers. ·      Driving the creation and growth of the Lab Manager Academy (https://labmanageracademy.com/) that currently contains three certificate programs: lab management, lab safety management, and lab quality management. ·      Helping people through his knowledge of science, scientists, management, and leadership. He is very happy sharing the accumulated wisdom of his experiences as a researcher, lab supervisor, and lab manager. Each article posted on Lab Manager addresses a decision that a lab manager needs to make. Lab management is full of decision-making, so helping people make better, faster, more complete decisions is very satisfying. Ways to connect with Scott:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-hanton/   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet, and mostly we get to deal with the unexpected, as opposed to inclusion or diversity. But that's okay, because unexpected is what makes life fun, and our guest today, Scott Hanton, will definitely be able to talk about that. Scott has been a research chemist. He comes from the chemistry world, so he and I in the past have compared notes, because, of course, I come from the physics world, and I love to tell people that the most important thing I learned about physics was that, unlike Doc Brown, although I do know how to build a bomb, unlike Doc Brown from Back to the Future, I'm not dumb enough to try to go steal fissionable material from a terrorist group to build the bomb. So, you know, I suppose that's a value, value lesson somewhere. But anyway, I am really glad that you're all here with us today, and we have lots to talk about. Scott, as I said, was in chemistry and research chemist, and now is the editorial supervisor and other things for a magazine called lab manager, and we will talk about that as well. So Scott, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad   Scott Hanton ** 02:38 you're here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation with you today.   Michael Hingson ** 02:43 Well, I think it'll be a lot of fun, and looking forward to it. Now, you're in Michigan, right?   Scott Hanton ** 02:48 That's right. I live in South Lyon, Michigan,   Michael Hingson ** 02:51 ah, what's the weather back there today?   Scott Hanton ** 02:55 It's probably about 55 degrees and cloudy   Michael Hingson ** 02:58 here today. Well, it's still fairly sunny here, and we're actually, according to my iPhone, at 71 so it was up around 80 earlier in the week, but weather changes are still going to bring some cold for a while   Scott Hanton ** 03:15 in here in Michigan, I visited a customer earlier this week, and I drove by about 1000 orange barrels on the highway, which means it's spring, because there's only two seasons in Michigan, winter and construction.   Michael Hingson ** 03:29 There you go. Yeah, I know. I went to the University of California, Irvine, UCI. And if you ask somebody who doesn't know that UCI stands for University of California at Irvine. If you ask them what UCI stands for, they'll tell you, under construction indefinitely. Sounds right? Yeah. Well, it's been doing it ever since I was there a long time ago, and they they continue to grow. Now we're up to like 32,000 fresh, or excuse me, undergraduates at the university. And when I was there, there were 2700 students. So it's grown a little. That's   Scott Hanton ** 04:05 a lot of change. I'm used to big universities. I'm a graduate of both Michigan State and the University of Wisconsin. So these are big places.   Michael Hingson ** 04:13 Wow, yeah. So you're used to it. I really enjoyed it when it was a small campus. I'm glad I went there, and that was one of the reasons that caused me to go there, was because I knew I could probably get a little bit more visibility with instructors, and that would be helpful for me to get information when they didn't describe things well in class. And it generally worked out pretty well. So I can't complain a lot. Perfect. Glad it worked well for you, it did. Well, why don't you start, if you would, by telling us kind of about the early Scott growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Scott Hanton ** 04:49 I grew up in Michigan, in a town called Saginaw. I was blessed with a family that loved me and that, you know, I was raised in a very. Supportive environment. But young Scott asked, Why about everything you know, the way kids do? Yeah, right. And my mom would tell you that when I was a kid, why was my most favorite word? And most kids outgrow that. I never did, yeah, so Me neither. I still ask why all the time. It's still my most favorite word, and it caused me to want to go explore the sciences, because what I found, as I learned about science, was that I could get answers to why questions better in science than in other places.   Michael Hingson ** 05:34 Yeah, makes sense. So what kinds of questions did you ask about why? Well, I asked   Scott Hanton ** 05:43 all kinds of questions about why, like, why are we having that for dinner? Or, why is my bedtime so early? Those questions didn't have good answers, at least from my perspective, right? But I also asked questions like, why is grass green, and why is the sky blue? And studying physical chemistry at Michigan State answered those questions. And so   Michael Hingson ** 06:03 how early did you learn about Rayleigh scattering? But that's you know?   Scott Hanton ** 06:07 Well, I learned the basic concepts from a really important teacher in my life, Mr. Leeson was my seventh grade science teacher, and what I learned from him is that I could ask questions that weren't pertinent to what he was lecturing about, and that taught me a lot about the fact that science was a lot bigger than what we got in the curriculum or in the classroom. And so Mr. Leeson was a really important person in my development, and showed me that there was that science was a lot bigger than I thought it was as a student, but I didn't really learn about rally scattering until I got to college.   Michael Hingson ** 06:43 But at the same time, it sounds like he was willing to allow you to grow and and learn, which so many people aren't willing to do. They're too impatient.   Scott Hanton ** 06:58 He was a first year teacher the year I had him so he hadn't become cynical yet. So it was great to just be able to stay after class and ask him a question, or put my hand up in class and ask him a question. He also did a whole series of demonstrations that were fabulous and made the science come to life in a way that reading about it doesn't stir the imagination. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:23 I had teachers that did that too. I remember very well my freshman general science teacher in high school, Mr. Dills, and one day, and he loved to do kind of unique things, just to push the boundaries of students a little bit. He came in one day and he said, I got a pop quiz for everybody, which doesn't help me, because the pop quiz was in print, but he handed it out. And then he took me to the back of the room, and he said, You're not going to really be able to do this quiz. Let me tell you why. And he said, Oh, and one thing he said is, just be sure you follow all the instructions and you'll be fine on the test to everybody. He brought me back to the back of the room. He says, Well, here's the deal. He says, if people really read the instructions, what they'll do is they'll read the instruction that says, Read all the questions before you start answering, and if you get to the last question, it says answer only the first question, which is what is your name and and sure enough, of course, people didn't read the instructions. And he said, so I wouldn't be able to really deal with you with that one, with that whole thing, just because it wouldn't work well. And I said, I understand, but he loved to make students think, and I learned so much about the whole concept of realizing the need to observe and be observant in all that you do. And it was lessons like that from him that really helped a lot with that. For me,   Scott Hanton ** 08:48 I had a high school chemistry teacher named Mrs. Schultz, and the first experiment that we did in her class, in the first week of classes, was she wanted us to document all of the observations that we could make about a burning candle. And I was a hot shot student. Thought I, you know, owned the world, and I was going to ace this test. And, you know, I had maybe a dozen observations about a burning candle, and thought I had done a great job describing it, until she started sharing her list, and she probably had 80 observations about a burning candle, and it taught me the power of observation and the need to talk about the details of those observations and to be specific about what the observations were. And that experiment seems simple, light a candle and tell me what you see. Yeah, but that lesson has carried on with me now for more than approaching 50 years.   Michael Hingson ** 09:47 Let's see, as I recall, if you light a candle, what the center of the flame is actually pretty cool compared to the outside. It's more hollow. Now I wouldn't be able to easily tell that, because. Is my my process for observing doesn't really use eyesight to do that, so I I'm sure there are other technologies today that I could use to get more of that information. But   Scott Hanton ** 10:12 I'm also sure that that experiment could be re crafted so that it wasn't so visual, yeah, right, that there could be tactile experiments to tell me about observations or or audible experiments about observation, where you would excel in ways that I would suffer because I'm so visually dominant. The   Michael Hingson ** 10:33 issue, though, is that today, there's a lot more technology to do that than there was when I was in school and you were in school, but yeah, I think there is a lot available. There's a company called Independence Science, which is actually owned and run by Dr Cary sapollo. And Carrie is blind, and he is a blind chemist, and he wanted to help develop products for blind people to be able to deal with laboratory work. So he actually worked with a company that was, well, it's now Vernier education systems. They make a product called LabQuest with something like 80 different kinds of probes that you can attach to it, and the LabQuest will will provide visual interpretations of whatever the probes are showing carry, and independent science took that product and made it talk, so that There is now a Talking LabQuest. And the reality is that all those probes became usable because the LabQuest became accessible to be able to do that, and they put a lot of other things into it too. So it's more than just as a talking device, a lab device. It's got a periodic table in it. It's got a lot of other kinds of things that they just put in it as well. But it's really pretty cool because it now makes science a whole lot more accessible. I'm going to have to think about the different kinds of probes and how one could use that to look at a candle. I think that'd be kind of fun.   Scott Hanton ** 12:15 And it's just awesome to hear that there's innovation and space to make science more available to everybody. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:23 the real problem that we face is the one that we mostly always have faced, which is societal attitudes, as opposed to really being or not being able to do the experiments, is people think we can't, and that's the barrier that we always, usually have to overcome.   Scott Hanton ** 12:39 What I find in my time as a coach, mentor, supervisor, is that if somebody believes they can't do it, they can't do it. Yeah. And so it's often about overcoming their own mental limitations, the limitations that they've placed on themselves,   Michael Hingson ** 12:56 and that's right, or unfortunately, the limitations that other people place on us, and we, all too often and weigh too much, buy into those limitations. So it's it is something that we, especially in the sciences, should recognize that we shouldn't be doing so much of. I know that when I was at UC Irvine as a graduate student, I learned once that there was a letter in my file that a professor wrote. Fortunately, I never had him as a professor, but it and I was in my master's program at the time in physics, and this guy put a letter in my file saying that no blind person could ever absorb the material to get an advanced degree in physics at the University. Just put that in there, which is so unfortunate, because the real thing that is demonstrated there is a prejudice that no scientist should ever have.   Scott Hanton ** 13:51 I'm hopeful that as you graduated, there was a retraction letter in your file as well,   Michael Hingson ** 13:57 not that I ever heard, but yeah. Well, I'd already gotten my bachelor's degree, but yeah. But you know, things happen, but it is a it is a societal thing, and society all too often creates limitations, and sometimes we don't find them right away, but it is one of the big issues that, in general, we have to deal with. And on all too often, society does some pretty strange things because it doesn't understand what science is all about. I know when we were dealing with covid, when it all started, leaving the conspiracy theorists out of it. One of the things that I learned was that we have all these discussions about AI, if you will. But AI was one of the primary mechanisms that helped to develop the mRNA vaccines that are now still the primary things that we use to get vaccinated against covid, because they the artificial intelligence. I'm not sure how artificial. It is, but was able to craft what became the vaccine in a few days. And scientists acknowledged, if they had to do it totally on their own, it would take years to have done what AI did in a few days.   Scott Hanton ** 15:13 The AI technology is amazing and powerful, but it's not new. No, I met a person who shared her story about AI investigations and talked about what she was doing in this field 30 years ago. Yeah, in her master's work. And you know, I knew it wasn't brand new, but I didn't really realize how deep its roots went until I talked to her.   Michael Hingson ** 15:37 I worked as my first jobs out of college with Ray Kurzweil, who, of course, nowadays, is well known for the singularity and so on. But back then, he developed the first reading machine that blind people could use to read printed material. And one of the things that he put into that machine was the ability, as it scanned more material, to learn and better recognize the material. And so he was doing machine learning back in the 1970s   Scott Hanton ** 16:07 right? And all of this is, you know, as Newton said on the shoulders of giants, right, right? He said it a bit cynically, but it's still true that we all in science, we are learning from each other. We're learning from the broader community, and we're integrating that knowledge as we tackle the challenges that we are exploring.   Michael Hingson ** 16:27 So what got you to go into chemistry when you went into college?   Scott Hanton ** 16:33 That's a good question. So when I was 13 years old, I went on a youth a church group youth trip to another city, and so they split us up, and there were three of us from our group that stayed overnight in a host family. And at dinner that night, the father worked in a pharmaceutical company, and he talked about the work he was doing, and what he was doing was really synthetic chemistry around small molecule drug discovery. And for me, it was absolutely fascinating. I was thrilled at that information. I didn't know any scientists growing up, I had no adult input other than teachers about science, and I can remember going back home and my parents asking me how the trip went. And it's like, it's fantastic. I'm going to be a chemist. And they both looked at me like, what is that? How do you make money from it? How do you get that? My dad was a banker. My mom was a school teacher. They had no scientific background, but that that one conversation, such serendipity, right? One conversation when I was 13 years old, and I came home and said, I'm going to be a chemist, and I've never really deviated from that path. Did you have other siblings? Younger brother and another younger sister?   Michael Hingson ** 17:54 Okay? Did they go into science by any remote chance?   Scott Hanton ** 17:58 Not at all. So they were both seventh grade teachers for more than 30 years. So my brother taught math and English, and my sister teaches social studies.   Michael Hingson ** 18:10 Well, there you go. But that is also important. I actually wanted to teach physics, but jobs and other things and circumstances took me in different directions, but I think the reality is that I ended up going into sales. And what I realized, and it was partly because of a Dale Carnegie sales course I took, but I realized that good sales people are really teachers, because they're really teaching people about products or about things, and they're also sharp enough to recognize what their products might or might not do to help a customer. But that, again, not everyone does that, but so I figure I still was teaching, and today, being a public speaker, traveling the world, talking, of course, about teamwork and other things, it's still all about teaching.   Scott Hanton ** 18:57 I think I've always been a teacher, and if you talk to my coworkers along the way, I enjoy helping people. I enjoy sharing my knowledge. There's always been a teacher inside but only in this job as the editorial director at lab manager have I really been able to do it directly. So we've developed what we call the lab manager Academy, and I create e learning courses to help lab managers be more successful, and it's been a passion project for me, and it's been a load of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 19:30 And it doesn't get better than that. It's always great when it's a load of fun, yes,   Scott Hanton ** 19:35 well, so you left college and you got a bachelor's and a master's degree, right? No masters for me, that step you went right to the old PhD, yeah. So I went straight. I went graduated from Michigan State. So Michigan State was on terms back in those days. So graduated in June, got married in July, moved to Wisconsin in August. To graduate school at the end of August at the University of Wisconsin. Okay? And my second year as a graduate student, my professor asked me, Do you want to stop and complete a master's? And I said, Wait, tell me about this word stop. And he said, Well, you'd have to finish the Master's requirements and write a thesis, and that's going to take some time. And I said, Do I have to and he said, No, and I don't recommend it. Just keep going forward and finish your PhD. So that's   Michael Hingson ** 20:30 and what does your wife do?   Scott Hanton ** 20:33 So my wife also is in the graduate program at the University of Wisconsin, and she decided that a master's degree was the right answer for her, because she didn't want to be a PhD scientist in XYZ narrow band of science. She wanted to be a master of chemistry. Okay, and so we took different paths through graduate school, but each of us took the path that worked best for us, and each pass has great value, so we're both happy with the choices that we made,   Michael Hingson ** 21:06 and complement each other and also give you, still lots of great things to talk about over dinner.   Scott Hanton ** 21:12 Absolutely. And she took that master's degree, went into the pharmaceutical industry and largely behaved as a librarian in her first part of her career, she wasn't called a librarian, but what she really did was a lot of information integrating, and then moved into the Library Group, and was a corporate librarian for a long time, and then a community librarian. So that path worked brilliantly for her. She also has a Masters of Library Science. So I have one PhD. She has two Master's degree. I have one bachelor's degree. She has two bachelor's degree.   Michael Hingson ** 21:50 Oh, so you can have interesting discussions about who really progressed further,   21:54 absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 21:57 Well, that's, that's, that's cute, though. Well, I I got my bachelor's and master's. My wife, who I didn't meet until years later, wanted to be a librarian, but she ended up getting a a Master's at USC in so in sociology and and ended up getting a teaching credential and going into teaching, and taught for 10 years, and then she decided she wanted to do something different, and became a travel agent, which she had a lot of fun with. That is different, it is, but she enjoyed it, and along the way, then we got married. It was a great marriage. She was in a wheelchair her whole life. So she read, I pushed, worked out well, complimentary skills, absolutely, which is the way, way it ought to be, you know, and we had a lot of fun with it. Unfortunately, she passed now two and a half years ago, but as I tell people, we were married 40 years, and I'm sure she's monitoring me from somewhere, and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it, so I try to just behave. Sounds like good advice. Yeah, probably certainly the safe way to go. But we, we, we had lots of neat discussions, and our our activities and our expertise did, in a lot of ways, complement each other, so it was a lot of fun. And as I said, she went to USC. I enjoyed listening to USC football because I thought that that particular college team had the best announcers in the business, least when when I was studying in Southern California, and then when we got married, we learned the the day we got married, the wedding was supposed to start at four, and it didn't start till later because people weren't showing up for the wedding. And we learned that everybody was sitting out in their cars waiting for the end of the USC Notre Dame game. And we knew that God was on our side when we learned that SC beat the snot out of Notre Dame. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh, the rivalries we face. So what did you do after college?   Scott Hanton ** 24:09 So did my PhD at the University of Wisconsin. And one of the nice things, a fringe benefit of going to a big, important program to do your PhD, is that recruiters come to you. And so I was able to do 40 different, four, zero, 40 different interviews on campus without leaving Madison. And one of those interviews was with a company called Air Products. And that worked out, and they hired me. And so we moved to Allentown, Pennsylvania to go to work. I went to work at Air Products and and Helen found a role in the pharmaceutical industry at Merck. And so we did that for a long time. I was initially a research expert, a PhD expert doing lasers and materials and analytical stuff. And over the years. I progressed up the ladder from researcher to supervisor to what did we call it, group head to Section Manager, to operations manager, and ultimately to General Manager.   Michael Hingson ** 25:13 Well, at least being in Allentown, you were close to a Cracker Barrel restaurant. Yes, that is true. That was the closest to one to where we lived in New Jersey, so we visited it several times. That's how I know   Scott Hanton ** 25:26 about it. Maybe we were there at the same time. Michael, maybe this isn't our first. It's   Michael Hingson ** 25:31 very possible. But we enjoyed Cracker Barrel and enjoyed touring around Pennsylvania. So I should have asked, What prompted you to go to the University of Wisconsin to do your your graduate work, as opposed to staying in Michigan. So   Scott Hanton ** 25:47 my advisor at Michigan State, our advisor at Michigan State, told us, here's the top five schools, graduate programs in chemistry, apply to them all. Go to the one you get into. And so I got into three. Helen got into two. The one that was the same was Wisconsin. So that's where we went, yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 26:09 Well, then no better logic and argument than that.   Scott Hanton ** 26:14 It was a great Madison. Wisconsin is a beautiful city. It one of the things I really liked about the chemistry program there then, and it's still true now, is how well the faculty get along together so many collaborative projects and just friendliness throughout the hallways. And yes, they are all competing at some level for grant support, but they get along so well, and that makes it for a very strong community,   Michael Hingson ** 26:41 and it probably also means that oftentimes someone who's applying for something can enlist support from other people who are willing to help.   Scott Hanton ** 26:50 And as a graduate student, it meant that I had more than one professor that I could go to my advisor. There was a whole group of advisors who ran joint group meetings and would give us advice about our work or our writing or our approach, or just because we needed a pep talk, because completing a PhD is hard. Yeah, right, so that community was really important to me, and it's something I took away that when I started my industrial career, I had seen the value of community, and I wanted to build stronger communities wherever I went, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 27:26 So what does a company, does air products do   Scott Hanton ** 27:31 that's sort of in the name, right? They're an industrial gas company. Got some of their big, biggest products are taking air and separating it into its components of nitrogen, oxygen, oxygen, argon, whatever, right? But at that time, they also had a chemicals business and a semiconductor business, or electronics business. So there was a lot of chemistry going on, although a lot of my work colleagues were chemical engineers who were working on the gasses side of the business, we had significant number of chemistry, sorts material science, sorts of people who are working on the chemicals side. Now, over time, Air Products divested those businesses, and now it's much more of a true industrial gas company. But I had the opportunity to work in an integrated science company that did all sorts of things.   Michael Hingson ** 28:23 Yeah, and as as we know, certainly a little helium never hurt anyone.   Scott Hanton ** 28:30 No little helium, you know, raises people's spirits, it   Michael Hingson ** 28:34 does and their voices, it does. I I've visited helium tanks many times at UC Irvine when they had liquid helium, which was certainly a challenge because of how cold it had to be. But occasionally we would open a valve and little cold but useful helium gas would escape   Scott Hanton ** 28:56 very cold. Please be safe. Cryogens are are dangerous materials, and we gotta make sure we handle them with due respect.   Michael Hingson ** 29:05 Yeah, well, we, we all did and and didn't take too many chances. So it worked out pretty well. So you stayed in Allentown and you stayed with Air Products for how long   Scott Hanton ** 29:19 I was in Air Products for 20 years. So the analytical group that I was part of, we were about 92 or 93 people when I joined the company, when I just left after earning my PhD. After 20 years, that group was down to about 35 just progressive series of decisions that made the department smaller, and as the Department got smaller and smaller, we were worried about our abilities to sustain our work. And so a dear friend and a key colleague, Paula McDaniel, and I, worked to try to see what other kind of opportunities there were. Yeah. And so we reached out to a contract research organization called Intertech to see if they would be interested in maybe acquiring our analytical department. And when we called them, and by the way, we called them before we talked to our boss about it, she forgave us later, but when we called the guy on the end of the phone said, Wait a minute, let me get your file. And it's like, what you have a file on Air Products, analytical, really? Why? Well, it turned out that they had a file, and that they had an active Merger and Acquisition Group, and they wanted an integrated analytical department on the east coast of the US. And so we engaged in negotiation, and ultimately this analytical department was sold by Air Products to Intertech. So on Friday, we're a little cog in a giant engine of an global, international company, and our funding comes from Vice Presidents. And on Monday, we're a standalone business of 35 people, we need to write quotes in order to make money. So it was an enormous challenge to transition from a service organization to a business. But oh my goodness, did we learn a lot,   Michael Hingson ** 31:13 certainly a major paradigm shift,   Scott Hanton ** 31:18 and I was lucky that I lost the coin flip, and Paula won, and she said, I want to be business development director. And I said, thank God. So she went off to be the key salesperson, and Paula was utterly brilliant as a technical salesperson, and I became the operations manager, which allowed me to keep my hands dirty with the science and to work with the scientists and to build a system and a community that allowed us to be successful in a CRO world.   Michael Hingson ** 31:49 So at that time, when you became part, part of them, the new company, were you or the standalone business? Were you working in lab? Still yourself?   Scott Hanton ** 32:01 Yes. So I had the title Operations Manager and all of the scientific staff reported into me, but I was still the technical expert in some mass spectrometry techniques, particularly MALDI and also tough Sims, and so I still had hands on lab responsibility that I needed to deliver. And over time, I was able to train some people to take some of those responsibilities off. But when the weight of the world was particularly heavy, the place for me to go was in the lab and do some experiments.   Michael Hingson ** 32:34 Yeah, still so important to be able to keep your hand in into to know and understand. I know I had that same sort of need being the manager of an office and oftentimes working with other people who were the engineers, coming from a little bit of a technical background as well. I worked to always make sure I knew all I could about the products that I was dealing with and selling, and my sales people who worked for me constantly asked, How come, you know, all this stuff, and we don't then, my response always was, did you read the product bulletin that came out last week? Or have you kept up on the product bulletins? Because it's all right there, whether I actually physically repaired products or not, I knew how to do it. And so many times when I was involved in working with some of our engineers, I remember a few times our field support people, and we were working out of New Jersey, and then in New York at the time, in the World Trade Center, we had some customers up at Lockheed Martin, up in Syria, Rochester, I think it was. And the guys would go up, and then they'd call me on the phone, and we'd talk about it, and between us, we came up with some bright ideas. And I remember one day, all of a sudden, I get this phone call, and these guys are just bouncing off the walls, because whatever it was that was going on between them and me, we figured it out, and they put it in play and made it work, and they were all just as happy as clams at high tide, which is the way it ought to   Scott Hanton ** 34:13 be. It's great to work in a team that finds success. The longer I was in technical management, the more I enjoyed the success of the team. It didn't need to be my success anymore that helping the scientists be successful in their roles was truly satisfying,   Michael Hingson ** 34:33 and that helped you, by definition, be more successful in your role.   Scott Hanton ** 34:36 And no question, it could be seen as a selfish byproduct, but the fact is that it still felt really good.   Michael Hingson ** 34:43 Yeah, I hear you, because I know for me, I never thought about it as I've got to be successful. It's we've got problems to solve. Let's do it together. And I always told people that we're a team. And I have told every salesperson. I ever hired. I'm not here to boss you around. You've convinced me that you should be able to sell our products, and sometimes I found that they couldn't. But I said my job is to work with you to figure out how I can enhance what you do, and what skills do I bring to add value to you, because we've got to work together, and the people who understood that and who got it were always the most successful people that I ever had in my teams.   Scott Hanton ** 35:30 One of the things I strive to do as a leader of any organization is to understand the key strengths of the people on the team and to try to craft their roles in such a way that they spend the majority of their time executing their strengths. Yeah. I've also discovered that when I truly investigate poor performance, there's often a correlation between poor performance and people working in their weaknesses. Yeah, and if we can shift those jobs, change those roles, make change happen so that people can work more often in their strengths, then good things happen.   Michael Hingson ** 36:07 And if you can bring some of your skills into the mix and augment what they do, so much the better.   Scott Hanton ** 36:16 Yeah, because I'm just another member of the team, my role is different, but I need to also apply my strengths to the problems and be wary of my weaknesses, because as the leader of the organization, my words carried undue weight. Yeah, and if, if I was speaking or acting in a space where I was weak, people would still do what I said, because I had the most authority, and that was just a lose, lose proposition   Michael Hingson ** 36:43 by any standard. And and when you, when you operated to everyone's strengths, it always was a win. Yep, which is so cool. So you went to Intertech, and how long were you there?   Scott Hanton ** 36:57 I was at Intertech for 10 years, and work I can if you know, for any listeners out there who work in the CRO world, it is a tough business. It is a grind working in that business, yeah? So it was a lot of long hours and testy customers and shortages of materials and equipment that was a hard a hard a hard road to plow,   Michael Hingson ** 37:22 yeah, yeah, it gets to be frustrating. Sometimes it's what you got to do, but it still gets to be frustrating gets to be a challenge. The best part   Scott Hanton ** 37:32 for me was I had a great team. We had senior and junior scientists. They were good people. They worked hard. They fundamentally, they cared about the outcomes. And so it was a great group of people to work with. But the contract lab business is a tough business. Yeah, so when covid came, you know, the pandemic settles in, all the restrictions are coming upon us. I was tasked as the General Manager of the business with setting up all the protocols, you know, how are we going to meet the number of people this basing the masks, you know, how could we work with and we were essential as a lab, so we had to keep doing what we were doing. And it took me about a week to figure non stop work to figure out what our protocols were going to be, and the moment I turned them into my boss, then I got laid off. So what you want to do in a time of crisis is you want to let go of the the general manager, the safety manager, the quality manager and the Chief Scientist, because those are four people that you don't need during times of stress or challenge or crisis. On the plus side for me, getting laid off was a bad hour. It hurt my pride, but after an hour, I realized that all the things that I'd been stressing about for years trying to run this business were no longer my problem. Yeah, and I found that it was a tremendous weight lifted off my shoulders to not feel responsible for every problem and challenge that that business had.   Michael Hingson ** 39:14 And that's always a good blessing when you when you figure that out and don't worry about the the issues anymore. That's a good thing. It was certainly   Scott Hanton ** 39:25 good for me. Yeah, so I'm not going to recommend that people go get laid off. No world to get fired. But one problem that I had is because Paula and I worked to create that business, I sort of behaved like an owner, but was treated like an employee. And my recommendation to people is, remember, you're an employee, find some personal boundaries that protect you from the stress of the business, because you're not going to be rewarded or treated like an owner.   Michael Hingson ** 39:58 Yeah, because you're not because. Or not.   Scott Hanton ** 40:01 So I got laid off. It was in the height of the pandemic. So, you know, I'm too busy of a human being to sort of sit in a rocking chair and watch the birds fly by. That's not my style or my speed. So I started a consulting business, and that was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed doing the consulting work, but I learned something really important about myself, and that's that while I can sell and I can be an effective salesperson, I don't like selling, and as a company of one, when I didn't sell, I didn't make any money, yeah, and so I needed to figure out something else to do, because I really hated selling, and I wasn't doing it. I was procrastinating, and that made the business be unpredictable and very choppy   Michael Hingson ** 40:51 in that company of one, that guy who was working for you wasn't really doing all that you wanted.   Scott Hanton ** 40:56 Exactly the Yeah, you know me as the founder, was giving me as the salesman, a poor performance review was not meeting objectives. So I had a long time volunteer relationship with lab manager magazine. I had been writing articles for them and speaking for them in webinars and in conferences for a long time, probably more than 10 years, I would say, and they asked me as a consultant to produce a a to a proposal to create the lab manager Academy. So the the founder and owner of the the company, the lab X Media Group, you really saw the value of an academy, and they needed it done. They needed it done. They couldn't figure it out themselves. So I wrote the proposal. I had a good idea of how to do it, but I was new to consulting, and I struggled with, how do I get paid for this? And I had four ideas, but I didn't like them, so I slept on it, and in the morning I had a fifth, which said, hire me full time. I sent in the proposal. An hour later, I had a phone call. A week later, I had a job, so that worked out fantastic. And I've really enjoyed my time at lab manager magazine. Great people, fun work. It's really interesting to me to be valued for what I know rather than for what I can do. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:23 the two relate. But still, it does need to be more about what you know, what you really bring, as opposed to what you can do, because what you can do in general probably is an offshoot of what you know.   Scott Hanton ** 42:38 So this gives me the opportunity to help lots of people. So on the outside of the company, I'm writing articles, creating courses, giving talks to help lab managers. Because I was a lab manager for a long time, yeah, over 20 years, and I know what those challenges are. I know how hard that job is, and I know how many decisions lab managers need to make, and it's wonderful to be able to share my experience and help them, and I am motivated to help them. So was it hard? Oh, go ahead, on the inside, I'm literally an internal subject matter expert, and so I can coach and teach and help my colleagues with what's the science? What do lab managers really think? How do we pitch this so that it resonates with lab managers, and I think that helps make all of our products better and more successful.   Michael Hingson ** 43:31 So was it hard? Well, I guess best way to put it is that, was it really hard to switch from being a scientist to being a lab manager and then going into being a subject matter expert and really out of the laboratory. So   Scott Hanton ** 43:48 people ask me all the time, Scott, don't you miss being in the lab and doing experiments? And my answer is, I miss being in the lab. And I do miss being in the lab. You know, on very stressful days at Intertech, I'd go in the lab and I'd do an experiment, yeah, because it was fun, and I had more control over the how the experiment was run and what I would learn from it than I did running a business. But the flip side of that is, I do experiments all the time. What I learned as the general manager of a business was the scientific method works. Let's data hypothesis. Let's figure out how to test it. Let's gather data, and let's see if the hypothesis stands or falls. And we ran a business that way, I think, pretty successfully. And even now, in in media and publishing, we still run experiments all the time. And it's kind of funny that most of my editorial colleagues that I work with, they think my favorite word is experiment. My favorite word is still why, but we talk all the time now about doing experiments, and that was a new thing for them, but now we can do continual improvement more in a more dedicated way, and we do it a lot faster. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 45:00 yeah. So what's the hardest thing you think about being a lab manager?   Scott Hanton ** 45:06 I think the hardest thing about let me answer that with two. I'm not going to be able to narrow it down to one, so I'll give you two. The first one is you transform, maybe one day to the next, from really being in control of your science and working with whether it's animals or rocks or electrons or chemicals, whatever you're working with, having a great degree of knowledge and a lot of control, and the next day, you're hurting cats. And so it's about that transition from having control over your destiny to influencing people to get the work done, and working with people instead of working with experiments, that's really hard. The second is, as a lab manager, there's endless decisions, and so combating decision fatigue is a big deal, and everybody in the lab depends upon you for the decisions you make. And it's not that every decision has to be perfect, you know, that's just a different failure mode if you try to make perfect decisions, but every decision needs to be made promptly. And as a scientist, I could always make more data in order to make a better decision, but as a lab manager, I would often only have maybe 40 or 50% of the data I wanted, and a decision had to be made. And getting comfortable making decisions in the face of uncertainty is really hard.   Michael Hingson ** 46:29 So certainly, being a lab manager or Well, dealing with managers in the way we're talking about it here, has to be very stressful. How do you how do you cope with the stress?   Scott Hanton ** 46:42 So I think ways to cope with the stress successfully is, first of all, you've got to take care of yourself. You know, we've all flown on airplanes, and what is the safety person in the aisle or on the video? Do oxygen masks will fall from the ceiling, and what do we do with them? We put them on before we help somebody else, right? We all know that. But in the workplace, especially as a manager, it's hard to remember that as we care for our team and try and take care of our team, there might not be enough time or energy or capacity left to take care of ourselves, but if we don't fill that gas tank every day doing something, then we can't help our team. And so one way to deal with the stress is to make sure that you take care of yourself. So   Michael Hingson ** 47:28 what do you do? How do you deal with that? So   Scott Hanton ** 47:31 for me, ways that I can reinvigorate is one. I like being outside and get my hands dirty. So I'm not really a gardener, but I call myself a yard dinner. So I grow grass and I grow flowers, and I trim trees, and I want to go outside, and I want to see immediate return on my effort, and I want it to be better than when I started. And it's good if I have to clean from under my fingernails when I'm doing it. Another thing I like to do is I play all kinds of games I'm happy to play, sorry, with little kids, or I'll play complicated strategy games with people who want to sit at a table for three or four hours at a time. Yeah? And that allows my brain to spin and to work but on something completely different. Yeah. And another thing that's been important for me, especially when I was a lab manager is to be involved in youth coaching, so I coached kids soccer and basketball and baseball teams, and it's just beautiful to be out there on a field with a ball, with kids. And you know, the worries of the world just aren't there. The kids don't know anything about them. And it's fun to work with the ones who are really good, but it's equally fun to work with the ones who have never seen the ball before, and to help them do even the most basic things. And that kind of giving back and paying it forward, that sort of stuff fills my tank.   Michael Hingson ** 48:51 Yeah, I empathize a lot with with that. For me, I like to read. I've never been much of a gardener, but I also collect, as I mentioned before, old radio shows, and I do that because I'm fascinated by the history and all the things I learned from what people did in the 2030s, 40s and 50s, being on radio, much Less getting the opportunity to learn about the technical aspects of how they did it, because today it's so different in terms of how one edits, how one processes and deals with sounds and so on, but it's but it's fun to do something just totally different than way maybe what your normal Job would be, and and I do love to interact with with people. I love to play games, too. I don't get to do nearly as much of it as I'd like, but playing games is, is a lot of fun,   Scott Hanton ** 49:52 and I agree, and it it's fun, it's diverting, it's it helps me get into a flow so that I'm focused on. Me on one thing, and I have no idea how much time has gone by, and I don't really care. You know, people who play games with me might question this. I don't really care if I win or lose. Certainly I want to win, but it's more important to me that I play well, and if somebody plays better, good for   Michael Hingson ** 50:14 them, great. You'll learn from it. Exactly. Do you play   Scott Hanton ** 50:18 chess? I have played chess. I've played a lot of chess. What I've learned with chess is that I'm not an excellent I'm a good player, but not an excellent player. And when I run into excellent players, they will beat me without even breaking a sweat.   Michael Hingson ** 50:34 And again, in theory, you learn something from that.   Scott Hanton ** 50:37 What I found is that I don't really want to work that hard and yeah. And so by adding an element of chance or probability to the game, the people who focus on chess, where there are known answers and known situations, they get thrown off by the uncertainty of the of the flip the card or roll the dice. And my brain loves that uncertainty, so I tend to thrive. Maybe it's from my time in the lab with elements of uncertainty, where the chess players wilt under elements of uncertainty, and it's again, it's back to our strengths, right? That's something that I'm good at, so I'm gonna go do it. I've   Michael Hingson ** 51:20 always loved Trivial Pursuit. That's always been a fun game that I enjoy playing. I   Scott Hanton ** 51:25 do love Trivial Pursuit. I watch Jeopardy regularly. A funny story, when we moved into our new house in Pennsylvania, it was a great neighborhood. Loved the neighbors there. When we first moved in, they invited my wife and I to a game night. Excellent. We love games. We're going to play Trivial Pursuit. Awesome like Trivial Pursuit. We're going to play as couples. Bad idea, right? Let's play boys against the girls, or, let's say, random draws. No, we're playing as couples. Okay, so we played as couples. Helen and I won every game by a large margin. We were never invited back for game night. Yeah, invited back for lots of other things, but not game night.   Michael Hingson ** 52:06 One of the things that, and I've talked about it with people on this podcast before, is that all too often, when somebody reads a question from a trivial pursuit card, an answer pops in your head, then you went, Oh, that was too easy. That can't be the right answer. So you think about it, and you answer with something else, but invariably, that first answer was always the correct answer.   Scott Hanton ** 52:32 Yes, I'm I have learned to trust my intuition. Yeah. I learned, as a research scientist, that especially in talking to some of my peers, who are very dogmatic, very step by step scientists. And they lay out the 20 steps to that they felt would be successful. And they would do one at a time, one through 20. And that made them happy for me, I do one and two, and then I'd predict where that data led me, and I do experiment number seven, and if it worked, I'm off to eight. And so I they would do what, one step at a time, one to 20, and I'd sort of do 127, 1420, yeah. And that I learned that that intuition was powerful and valuable, and I've learned to trust it. And in my lab career, it served me really well. But also as a manager, it has served me well to trust my intuition, and at least to listen to it. And if I need to analyze it, I can do that, but I'm going to listen to it,   Michael Hingson ** 53:31 and that's the important thing, because invariably, it's going to give you useful information, and it may be telling you not what to do, but still trusting it and listening to it is so important, I've found that a lot over the years,   Scott Hanton ** 53:47 Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book called Blink, where he talks about the power of the subconscious, and his claim is that the subconscious is 100,000 times smarter than our conscious brain, and I think when we are trusting our intuition, we're tapping into that super computer that's in our skulls. If you want to learn more, read blank. It's a great story.   Michael Hingson ** 54:10 I hear you. I agree. How can people learn to be better leaders and managers?   Scott Hanton ** 54:18 So I think it's there's really three normal ways that people do this. One is the power of experiment, right? And I did plenty of that, and I made tons of errors. It's painful. It's irritating, trial and error, but I used to tell people at Intertech that I was the general manager because I'd made the most mistakes, which gave me the most opportunity to learn. It was also partly because a lot of my peers wanted nothing to do with the job. You know, they wanted to be scientists. Another way is we, we get coached and mentored by people around us, and that is awesome if you have good supervisors, and it's tragic if you have bad supervisors, because you don't know any better and you take for granted. That the way it's been done is the way it needs to be done, and that prevents us from being generative leaders and questioning the status quo. So there's problems there, too. And I had both good and bad supervisors during my career. I had some awful, toxic human beings who were my supervisors, who did damage to me, and then I had some brilliant, caring, empathetic people who raised me up and helped me become the leader that I am today. So it's a bit of a crap shoot. The third way is go out and learn it from somebody who's done it right, and that's why we generated the lab manager Academy to try to codify all the mistakes I made and what are the learnings from them? And when I'm talking with learners who are in the program, it's we have a huge positive result feedback on our courses. And what I talk to people about who take our courses is I'm glad you appreciate what we've put together here. That makes me feel good. I'm glad it's helping you. But when these are my mistakes and the answers to my mistakes, when you make mistakes, you need to in the future, go make some courses and teach people what the lessons were from your mistakes and pay it forward. Yeah. So I recommend getting some training.   Michael Hingson ** 56:17 What's the difference between management and leadership?   Scott Hanton ** 56:21 I particularly love a quote from Peter Drucker. So Peter Drucker was a professor in California. You may have heard of him before.   Michael Hingson ** 56:29 I have. I never had the opportunity to meet him, but I read.   Scott Hanton ** 56:34 I didn't either material. I've read his books, and I think he is an insightful human being, yes. So the quote goes like this, management is doing things right. Leadership is doing the right things. So as a technical manager, there's a bunch of things we have to get right. We have to get safety right. We have to get quality right. There's an accuracy and precision that we need to get right for our outcomes and our results. Those are management tasks, but leadership is about doing the right things. And the interesting thing about that definition is it doesn't require a title or a role or any level of authority. So anyone can be a leader if you're consistently doing the right things, you are exhibiting leadership, and that could be from the person sweeping the floors or the person approving the budget, or anyone in between.   Michael Hingson ** 57:33 Yeah, I've heard that quote from him before, and absolutely agree with it. It makes a whole lot of sense.   Scott Hanton ** 57:41 Other definitions that I've seen trying to distinguish management and leadership tend to use the words manage and lead, and I don't like definitions that include the words that they're trying to define. They become circular at some level. This one, I think, is clear about it, what its intention is, and for me, it has worked through my career, and so the separation is valuable. I have authority. I'm the manager. I have accountability to get some stuff right, but anyone can lead, and everyone can lead, and the organization works so much better when it's full of leaders   Michael Hingson ** 58:21 and leaders who are willing to recognize when they bring something to the table, or if someone else can add value in ways that they can't, to be willing to let the other individual take the leadership position for a while.   Scott Hanton ** 58:40 Absolutely, and you know that really comes down to building an environment and a culture that's supportive. And so Amy Edmondson has written extensively on the importance of psychological safety, and that psychological safety hinges on what you just said, right? If the guy who sweeps the floor has an observation about the organization. Do they feel safe to go tell the person in charge that this observation, and if they feel safe, and if that leader is sufficiently vulnerable and humble to listen with curiosity about that observation, then everybody benefits, yeah, and the more safe everyone feels. We think about emotion. Emotional safety is they anyone can bring their best self to work, and psychological safety is they can contribute their ideas and observations with no threat of retaliation, then we have an environment where we're going to get the best out of everybody, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 59:46 which is the way it it really ought to be. And all too often we don't necessarily see it, but that is the way it ought   Scott Hanton ** 59:53 to be. Too many people are worried about credit, or, I don't know, worried about things that I don't see. Yeah, and they waste human potential, right? They they don't open their doors to hire anybody. They they judge people based on what they look like instead of who they are, or they box people in into roles, and don't let them flourish and Excel. And whenever you're doing those kinds of things, you're wasting human potential. And businesses, science and business are too hard to waste human potential. We need to take advantage of everything that people are willing to give. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:33 we've been doing this for quite a while already today. So I'm going to ask as a kind of a last question, what, what advice do you want to leave for people to think about going forward in their lives and in their careers?   Scott Hanton ** 1:00:48 So I was participating in a LinkedIn chat today where a professor was asking the question, what sort of advice would you wish you got when you were 21 Okay, so it was an interesting thread, and there was one contributor to the thread who said something I thought was particularly valuable. And she said, attitude matters. Attitude matters. We can't control what happens to us, but we can control how we deal with it and how we respond, right? And so I think if we can hold our attitude as our accountability, and we can direct our strengths and our talents to applying them against the challenges that the business or the science or the lab or the community faces, and we can go in with some positive attitude and positive desire for for change and improvement, and we can be vulnerable and humble enough to accept other people's ideas and to interact through discussion and healthy debate. Then everything's better. I also like Kelleher his quote he was the co founder of Southwest Airlines, and he said, when you're hiring, hire for attitude, train for skill. Attitude is so important. So I think, understand your attitude. Bring the attitude you want, the attitude you value, the attitude that's that's parallel to your core values. And then communicate to others about their attitude and how it's working or not working for them.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:31 And hopefully, if they have a positive or good enough attitude, they will take that into consideration and grow because of it absolutely   Scott Hanton ** 1:02:41 gives everybody the chance to be the best they can be.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:47 Well, Scott, this has been wonderful. If people want to reach out to you, how can they do that?   Scott Hanton ** 1:02:51 So LinkedIn is great. I've provided Michael my LinkedIn connection. So I would love to have people connect to me on LinkedIn or email. S Hanson at lab manager.com love to have interactions with the folks out there.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:08 Well, I want to thank you for spending so much time. We'll have to do more of this.   Scott Hanton ** 1:03:13 Michael, I really enjoyed it. This was a fun conversation. It was stimulating. You asked good questio

Dr. Ganesh Anand is an Associate Professor of Chemistry as well as Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at The Pennsylvania State University (or Penn State University) at the University Park campus. He is also an elected Board Member of the International Society for Hydrogen/Deuterium Exchange Mass Spectrometry (HDX-MS). Research in Ganesh's lab examines molecular switches. He wants to know how molecules interact with one another and how they switch from one state to another. These tiny molecular switches act almost like electrical switches turning on and off the functions of different molecules. He also does research on viruses and how they change shape to infect their hosts. Beyond his scientific interests, Ganesh has also been passionate about music for as long as he can remember. He takes voice lessons now and enjoys singing in choirs in his free time. He received his bachelor's degree in pharmacy and his master's degree in biological sciences from Birla Institute of Technology and Science in India. Next, Ganesh attended Rutgers University where he earned his PhD in biochemistry. Afterwards, he conducted postdoctoral research as a Howard Hughes Medical Institute Research Fellow at the University of California San Diego. Ganesh served on the faculty in the Department of Biological Sciences at the National University of Singapore for over a decade before accepting a faculty position at Penn State where he is today. His lab is recognized as a Waters World Center of Innovation in Hydrogen/Deuterium Exchange Mass Spectrometry. Ganesh is founding member and former Director of the Singapore National Laboratory for Mass Spectrometry (SingMass) and the former Vice President of the Singapore Society for Mass Spectrometry. In this interview, he shares more about his life and science.

Brought to you by the Founders Unfiltered podcast by A Junior VC - Unscripted conversations with Indian founders about their story and the process of building a company. Hosted by Aviral and Mazin.Join us as we talk to Nikhil Barshikar, the Founder and CEO of Imarticus Learning about their story.Nikhil holds a Bachelor's degree in Finance and Economics from Rutgers University and an MBA from London Business School.He has held leadership roles including Vice President at Lehman Brothers and Nomura India, Executive Director at Nomura Securities, and Investment Committee Member at BLinC Invest. In 2012, he went on to found Imarticus Learning.

Much of world history is Indian history. Home today to one in four people, the subcontinent has long been densely populated and deeply connected to Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Americas through migration and trade. In this magisterial history, Audrey Truschke tells the fascinating story of the region historically known as India--which includes today's India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and parts of Afghanistan--and the people who have lived there. A sweeping account of five millennia, from the dawn of the Indus Valley Civilization to the twenty-first century, this engaging and richly textured narrative chronicles the most important political, social, religious, intellectual, and cultural events. And throughout, it describes how the region has been continuously reshaped by its astonishing diversity, religious and political innovations, and social stratification. Here, readers will learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, and Sikhism; the Vedas and Mahabharata; Ashoka and the Mauryan Empire; the Silk Road; the Cholas; Indo-Persian rule; the Mughal Empire; European colonialism; national independence movements; the 1947 Partition of India; the recent rise of Hindu nationalism; the challenges of climate change; and much more. Emphasizing the diversity of human experiences on the subcontinent, the book presents a wide range of voices, including those of women, religious minorities, lower classes, and other marginalized groups. You cannot understand India today without appreciating its deeply contested history, which continues to drive current events and controversies. A comprehensive and innovative book, India is essential reading for anyone who is interested in the past, present, or future of the subcontinent. Audrey Truschke is professor of South Asian history at Rutgers University, Newark. She is the bestselling author of Aurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India's Most Controversial King and other books. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Much of world history is Indian history. Home today to one in four people, the subcontinent has long been densely populated and deeply connected to Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Americas through migration and trade. In this magisterial history, Audrey Truschke tells the fascinating story of the region historically known as India--which includes today's India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and parts of Afghanistan--and the people who have lived there. A sweeping account of five millennia, from the dawn of the Indus Valley Civilization to the twenty-first century, this engaging and richly textured narrative chronicles the most important political, social, religious, intellectual, and cultural events. And throughout, it describes how the region has been continuously reshaped by its astonishing diversity, religious and political innovations, and social stratification. Here, readers will learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, and Sikhism; the Vedas and Mahabharata; Ashoka and the Mauryan Empire; the Silk Road; the Cholas; Indo-Persian rule; the Mughal Empire; European colonialism; national independence movements; the 1947 Partition of India; the recent rise of Hindu nationalism; the challenges of climate change; and much more. Emphasizing the diversity of human experiences on the subcontinent, the book presents a wide range of voices, including those of women, religious minorities, lower classes, and other marginalized groups. You cannot understand India today without appreciating its deeply contested history, which continues to drive current events and controversies. A comprehensive and innovative book, India is essential reading for anyone who is interested in the past, present, or future of the subcontinent. Audrey Truschke is professor of South Asian history at Rutgers University, Newark. She is the bestselling author of Aurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India's Most Controversial King and other books. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

yWhat happens when rain has nowhere to go? As climate patterns shift and development spreads across the landscape, our relationship with rainwater has become increasingly complex and problematic. Matthew Laconey, bio-environmental engineer with Rutgers University's Water Resources Program, takes us deep into the world of green stormwater infrastructure and why it matters to every community.When rainwater hits impervious surfaces like parking lots and rooftops instead of natural areas, it creates a cascade of environmental problems. This runoff carries pollutants directly into streams, causes flooding by overwhelming waterways, and fails to replenish groundwater supplies that feed our aquifers. Green infrastructure works by creating natural buffers that capture, slow, and filter this water before it reaches waterways.Throughout New Jersey, municipalities must navigate complex stormwater regulations through MS4 permits that establish baseline standards for water management. Laconey explains how climate change has forced regulators to update rainfall design standards, requiring newer developments to handle larger storms than historically necessary. The Rutgers team has implemented hundreds of green infrastructure projects statewide, from municipal installations to simple rain gardens at schools and homes.For listeners wondering how to make a difference, Laconey offers practical guidance for installing residential rain gardens, emphasizing that "every drop counts" in our collective effort to manage stormwater sustainably. He points out that developments built before 1984 typically lack proper stormwater controls, highlighting the need to address existing infrastructure, not just new construction. By thinking differently about our relationship with rainfall, we can transform environmental challenges into opportunities for cleaner water, reduced flooding, and more resilient communities.Ready to make a difference in your yard or community? Explore the rain garden manuals and resources available through the Rutgers Water Resources Program website, and join the movement to make water management more sustainable, one drop at a time.

In January, 2022 today's guest, Mike Paciello, made his first appearance on Unstoppable Mindset in Episode 19. It is not often that most of us have the opportunity and honor to meet a real trendsetter and pioneer much less for a second time. However, today, we get to spend more time with Mike, and we get to talk about not only the concepts around web accessibility, but we also discuss the whole concept of inclusion and how much progress we have made much less how much more work needs to be done.   Mike Paciello has been a fixture in the assistive technology world for some thirty years. I have known of him for most of that time, but our paths never crossed until September of 2021 when we worked together to help create some meetings and sessions around the topic of website accessibility in Washington D.C.   As you will hear, Mike began his career as a technical writer for Digital Equipment Corporation, an early leader in the computer manufacturing industry. I won't tell you Mike's story here. What I will say is that although Mike is fully sighted and thus does not use much of the technology blind and low vision persons use, he really gets it. He fully understands what Inclusion is all about and he has worked and continues to work to promote inclusion and access for all throughout the world. As Mike and I discuss, making technology more inclusive will not only help persons with disabilities be more involved in society, but people will discover that much of the technology we use can make everyone's life better. We talk about a lot of the technologies being used today to make websites more inclusive including the use of AI and how AI can and does enhance inclusion efforts.   It is no accident that this episode is being released now. This episode is being released on July 25 to coincide with the 35th anniversary of the signing of the Americans With Disabilities Act which was signed on July 26, 1990. HAPPY BIRTHDAY ADA!   After you experience our podcast with Mike, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at michaelhi@accessibe.com to tell me of your observations. Thanks.     About the Guest:   Mike Paciello is the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Inc., a digital accessibility company. Prior to joining AudioEye, Mike founded WebABLE/WebABLE.TV, which delivers news about the disability and accessibility technology market. Mike authored the first book on web accessibility and usability, “Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities” and, in 1997, Mr. Paciello received recognition from President Bill Clinton for his work in the creation of World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). He has served as an advisor to the US Access Board and other federal agencies since 1992.   Mike has served as an international leader, technologist, and authority in emerging technology, accessibility, usability, and electronic publishing. Mike is the former Founder of The Paciello Group (TPG), a world-renowned software accessibility consultancy acquired in 2017 by Vispero. Ways to connect with Mike:   mpaciello@webable.com Michael.paciello@audioeye.com Mikepaciello@gmail.com     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet. Normally, our guests deal with the unexpected, which is anything that doesn't have to do with inclusion or diversity. Today, however, we get to sort of deal with both. We have a guest who actually was a guest on our podcast before he was in show 19 that goes all the way back to January of 2022, his name is Mike Paciello. He's been very involved in the whole internet and accessibility movement and so on for more than 30 years, and I think we're going to have a lot of fun chatting about what's going on in the world of accessibility and the Internet and and, you know, and but we won't probably get into whether God is a man or a woman, but that's okay, God is actually both, so we don't have to worry about that. But anyway, Mike, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Mike Paciello ** 02:21 Yeah, Hey, Mike, thanks a lot. I can't believe has it really been already since today, six years since the last time I came on this? No, three, 320, 22 Oh, 2022, I for whatever I 2019 Okay, three years sounds a little bit more realistic, but still, it's been a long time. Thank you for having me. It's, it's, it's great to be here. And obviously, as you know, a lot of things have changed in my life since then. But, yeah, very   Michael Hingson ** 02:46 cool. Well, you were in show number 19. And I'm not sure what number this is going to be, but it's going to be above 360 so it's been a while. Amazing, amazing, unstoppable, unstoppable. That's it. We got to keep it going. And Mike and I have been involved in a few things together, in, in later, in, I guess it was in 20 when we do the M enabling Summit, that was 2021 wasn't it? Yeah, I think it was, I think it was the year before we did the podcast, yeah, podcast, 2021 right? So we were in DC, and we both worked because there was a group that wanted to completely condemn the kinds of technologies that accessibe and other companies use. Some people call it overlays. I'm not sure that that's totally accurate today, but we we worked to get them to not do what they originally intended to do, but rather to explore it in a little bit more detail, which I think was a lot more reasonable to do. So we've, we've had some fun over the years, and we see each other every so often, and here we are again today. So yeah, I'm glad you're here. Well, tell us a little about well, and I guess what we'll do is do some stuff that we did in 2022 tell us about kind of the early Mike, growing up and all that and what eventually got you into dealing with all this business of web accessibility and such. Yeah, thank you.   Mike Paciello ** 04:08 You know, I've tried to short this, shorten this story 100 times. Oh, don't worry. See if I get let's see if I can keep it succinct and and for the folks out there who understand verbosity and it's in its finest way for screen reader users, I'll try not to be verbose. I already am being   Michael Hingson ** 04:28 intermediate levels fine.   Mike Paciello ** 04:30 I came into this entire field as a technical writer trying to solve a problem that I kind of stumbled into doing some volunteer work for the debt the company that I then then worked for, a Digital Equipment Corporation, a software company, DEC software hardware company, back then, right back in the early 80s. And as a technical writer, I started learning at that time what was called Gen code. Eventually that morphed in. To what Goldfarb, Charles Goldfarb at IBM, called SGML, or standard, Generalized Markup Language, and that really became the predecessor, really gave birth to what we see on the web today, to HTML and the web markup languages. That's what they were, except back then, they were markup languages for print publications. So we're myself and a lot of colleagues and friends, people probably here, I'm sure, at bare minimum, recognized named George Kercher. George and I really paired together, worked together, ended up creating an international steer with a group of other colleagues and friends called the icad 22 which is 22 stands for the amount of elements in that markup language. And it became the adopted standard accessibility standard for the American Association of Publishers, and they published that became official. Eventually it morphed into what we today call, you know, accessible web development. It was the first instance by that was integrated into the HTML specification, I think officially, was HTML 3.1 3.2 somewhere in there when it was formally adopted and then announced in 1997 and at the World Wide Web Conference. That's really where my activity in the web began. So I was working at DEC, but I was doing a lot of volunteer work at MIT, which is where the W 3c was located at that particular time. And Tim Bursley, who a lot of people i Sir, I'm sure, know, the inventor of the web, led the effort at that time, and a few other folks that I work with, and.da Jim Miller, a few other folks. And we were, well, I wasn't specifically approached. Tim was approached by Vice President Gore and eventually President Clinton at that time to see if we could come up with some sort of technical standard for accessibility. And Tim asked if I'd like to work on it myself. Danielle, Jim, a few others, we did, and we came up that first initial specification and launched it as part of the Web Accessibility Initiative, which we created in 1997 from there, my career just took off. I went off did a couple of small companies that I launched, you know, my namesake company, the Paciello Group, or TPG, now called TPG IGI, yeah, yeah, which was acquired by vector capital, or this bureau back in 2017 so it's hard to believe that's already almost 10 years ago. No, yeah. And I've been walking in, working in the software, web accessibility field, usability field, writing fields, you know, for some pretty close to 45 years. It's 2025 40 years, I mean, and I started around 1984 I think it was 8384 when all this first   Michael Hingson ** 07:59 started. Wow, so clearly, you've been doing it for a while and understand a lot of the history of it. So how overall has the whole concept of web accessibility changed over the years, not only from a from a coding standpoint, but how do you think it's really changed when it comes to being addressed by the public and companies and so on.   Mike Paciello ** 08:26 That's a great question. I'd certainly like to be more proactive and more positive about it, but, but let me be fair, if you compare today and where web accessibility resides, you know, in the in the business value proposition, so to speak, and list the priorities of companies and corporations. You know, fortune 1000 fortune 5000 call whatever you whatever you want. Accessibility. Is there people? You could say section five way you could say the Web Accessibility Initiative, WCAG, compliance, and by and large, particularly technology driven, digital economy driven businesses, they know what it is. They don't know how to do it. Very rarely do they know how to do it. And even the ones that know how to do it don't really do it very well. So it kind of comes down to the 8020, rule, right? You're a business. Whatever kind of business you are, you're probably in more online presence than ever before, and so a lot of your digital properties will come under you know the laws that mandate usability and accessibility for people with disabilities today that having been said and more and more people know about it than ever before, certainly from the time that I started back in the you know, again, in the early, mid 80s, to where we are today. It's night and day. But in terms of prioritization, I don't know. I think what happens quite often is business value proposition. Decisions get in the way. Priorities get in the way of what a business in, what its core business are, what they're trying to accomplish, who they're trying to sell, sell to. They still view the disability market, never mind the blind and low vision, you know, market alone as a niche market. So they don't make the kind of investors that I, I believe that they could, you know, there's certainly, there are great companies like like Microsoft and and Google, Amazon, Apple, you know, a lot of these companies, you know, have done some Yeoman work at that level, but it's nowhere near where it should be. It just absolutely isn't. And so from that standpoint, in where I envision things, when I started this career was when I was in my 20 somethings, and now I'm over now I'm over 60. Well over 60. Yeah, I expected a lot more in, you know, in an internet age, much, much more.   Michael Hingson ** 11:00 Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's really strange that so much has happened and yet so much hasn't happened. And I agree with you, there's been a lot of visibility for the concept of accessibility and inclusion and making the the internet a better place, but it is so unfortunate that most people don't know how to how to do anything with it. Schools aren't really teaching it. And more important than even teaching the coding, from from my perspective, looking at it more philosophically, what we don't tend to see are people really recognizing the value of disabilities, and the value that the market that people with disabilities bring to the to the world is significant. I mean, the Center for Disease Control talks about the fact that they're like up to 25% of all Americans have some sort of disability. Now I take a different approach. Actually. I don't know whether you've read my article on it, but I believe everyone on the in the in the world has a disability, and the reality is, most people are light dependent, but that's as much a disability as blindness. Except that since 1878 when Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. We have focused nothing short of trying to do everything we can to improve light on demand for the last 147 years. And so the disability is mostly covered up, but it's still there.   Mike Paciello ** 12:37 You know, yeah, and I did read that article, and I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I personally think, and I actually have my own blog coming out, and probably later this month might be early, early July, where I talk about the fact that accessibility okay and technology really has been all along. And I love the fact that you call, you know, you identified the, you know, the late 1800s there, when Edison did the the light bulb, Alexander Graham Bell came up with, you know, the telephone. All of those adventures were coming about. But accessibility to people with disabilities, regardless of what their disability is, has always been a catalyst for innovation. That was actually supposed to be the last one I was going to make tonight. Now it's my first point because, because I think it is exactly as you said, Mike, I think that people are not aware. And when I say people, I mean the entire human population, I don't think that we are aware of the history of how, how, because of, I'm not sure if this is the best word, but accommodating users, accommodating people with disabilities, in whatever way, the science that goes behind that design architectural to the point of development and release, oftentimes, things that were done behalf of people with disabilities, or for People with disabilities, resulted in a fundamental, how's this for? For an interesting term, a fundamental alteration right to any other you know, common, and I apologize for the tech, tech, tech language, user interface, right, right? Anything that we interact with has been enhanced because of accessibility, because of people saying, hey, if we made this grip a little bit larger or stickier, we'll call it so I can hold on to it or softer for a person that's got fine motor dexterity disabilities, right? Or if we made a, you know, a web browser, which, of course, we have such that a blind individual, a low vision individual, can adjust the size of this, of the images and the fonts and things like that on a web page, they could do that unknown. Well, these things now. As we well know, help individuals without disabilities. Well, I'm not much, right, and I, again, I'm not speaking as a person beyond your characterization that, hey, look, we are all imperfect. We all have disabilities. And that is, that is absolutely true. But beyond that, I wear glasses. That's it. I do have a little hearing loss too. But you know, I'm finding myself more and more, for example, increasing the size of text. In fact, my note, yes, I increase them to, I don't know they're like, 18 point, just so that it's easier to see. But that is a common thing for every human being, just like you said.   Michael Hingson ** 15:36 Well, the reality is that so many tools that we use today come about. And came about because of people with disabilities. Peggy Chung Curtis Chung's wife, known as the blind history lady, and one of the stories that she told on her first visit to unstoppable mindset, which, by the way, is episode number five. I remember that Peggy tells the story of the invention of the typewriter, which was invented for a blind countist, because she wanted to be able to communicate with her lover without her husband knowing about it, and she didn't want to dictate things and so on. She wanted to be able to create a document and seal it, and that way it could be delivered to the lever directly. And the typewriter was the result of   Mike Paciello ** 16:20 that? I didn't know that. I will definitely go back. I just wrote it down. I wrote down a note that was episode number five, yeah, before with Curtis a couple of times, but obviously a good friend of ours, yeah, but I yeah, that's, that's, that's awesome.   Michael Hingson ** 16:37 Well, and look at, I'll tell you one of the things that really surprises me. So Apple was going to get sued because they weren't making any of their products accessible. And before the lawsuit was filed, they came along and they said, we'll fix it. And they did make and it all started to a degree with iTunes U but also was the iPhone and the iPod and so on. But they they, they did the work. Mostly. They embedded a screen reader called Voiceover in all of their operating systems. They did make iTunes you available. What really surprises me, though is that I don't tend to see perhaps some things that they could do to make voiceover more attractive to drivers so they don't have to look at the screen when a phone call comes in or whatever. And that they could be doing some things with VoiceOver to make it more usable for sighted people in a lot of instances. And I just don't, I don't see any emphasis on that, which is really surprising to me.   Mike Paciello ** 17:38 Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, there are a lot of use cases there that you go for. I think Mark Rico would certainly agree with you in terms of autonomous driving for the blind, right? Sure that too. But yeah, I definitely agree and, and I know the guy that the architect voiceover and develop voiceover for Apple and, boy, why can I think of his last name? I know his first name. First name is Mike. Is with Be My Eyes now and in doing things at that level. But I will just say one thing, not to correct you, but Apple had been in the accessibility business long before voice over Alan Brightman and Gary mulcher were instrumental towards convincing, you know, jobs of the importance of accessibility to people with disabilities,   Michael Hingson ** 18:31 right? But they weren't doing anything to make products accessible for blind people who needed screen readers until that lawsuit came along. Was   Mike Paciello ** 18:40 before screen readers? Yeah, that was before,   Michael Hingson ** 18:43 but they did it. Yeah. The only thing I wish Apple would do in that regard, that they haven't done yet, is Apple has mandates and requirements if you're going to put an app in the App Store. And I don't know whether it's quite still true, but it used to be that if your app had a desktop or it looked like a Windows desktop, they wouldn't accept it in the app store. And one of the things that surprises me is that they don't require that app developers make sure that their products are usable with with VoiceOver. And the reality is that's a it doesn't need to be a really significantly moving target. For example, let's say you have an app that is dealing with displaying star charts or maps. I can't see the map. I understand that, but at least voiceover ought to give me the ability to control what goes on the screen, so that I can have somebody describe it, and I don't have to spend 15 or 20 minutes describing my thought process, but rather, I can just move things around on the screen to get to where we need to go. And I wish Apple would do a little bit more in that regard.   Mike Paciello ** 19:52 Yeah, I think that's a great a great thought and a great challenge, if, between me and you. Yeah, I think it goes back to what I said before, even though we both see how accessibility or accommodating users with disabilities has led to some of the most incredible innovations. I mean, the Department of Defense, for years, would integrate people with disabilities in their user testing, they could better help, you know, military soldiers, things like that, assimilate situations where there was no hearing, there was they were immobile, they couldn't see all, you know, all of these things that were natural. You know, user environments or personas for people with disabilities. So they led to these kind of, you know, incredible innovations, I would tell you, Mike, I think you know this, it's because the business value proposition dictates otherwise.   Michael Hingson ** 20:55 Yeah, and, well, I guess I would change that slightly and say that people think that the business proposition does but it may very well be that they would find that there's a lot more value in doing it if they would really open up their minds to looking at it differently. It's   Mike Paciello ** 21:10 kind of, it's kind of like, it's tough. It's kind of like, if I could use this illustration, so to speak, for those who may not be religiously inclined, but you know, it's, it's like prophecy. Most people, you don't know whether or not prophecy is valid until years beyond, you know, years after. And then you could look back at time and say, See, it was all along. These things, you know, resulted in a, me, a major paradigm shift in the way that we do or don't do things. And I think that's exactly what you're saying. You know, if, if people would really look at the potential of what technologies like, you know, a voice over or, as you know, a good friend of mine said, Look, we it should be screen readers. It should be voice IO interfaces, right? That every human can use and interact with regardless. That's what we're really talking about. There's   Michael Hingson ** 22:10 a big discussion going on some of the lists now about the meta, Ray Ban, glasses, and some of the things that it doesn't do or that they don't do well, that they should like. It's really difficult to get the meta glasses to read completely a full page. I think there are ways that people have now found to get it to do that, but there are things like that that it that that don't happen. And again, I think it gets back to what you're saying is the attitude is, well, most people aren't going to need that. Well, the reality is, how do you know and how do you know what they'll need until you offer options. So one of my favorite stories is when I worked for Kurzweil a long time ago, some people called one day and they wanted to come and see a new talking computer terminal that that Ray and I and others developed, and they came up, and it turns out, they were with one of those initial organizations out of Langley, Virginia, the CIA. And what they wanted to do was to use the map the the terminal connected to their computers to allow them to move pointers on a map and not have to watch the map or the all of the map while they were doing it, but rather, the computer would verbalize where the pointer was, and then they could they could move it around and pin a spot without having to actually look at the screen, because the way their machine was designed, it was difficult to do that. You know, the reality is that most of the technologies that we need and that we use and can use could be used by so much, so many more people, if people would just really look at it and think about it, but, but you're right, they don't.   Mike Paciello ** 24:04 You know, it's, of course, raise a raise another good friend of mine. We both having in common. I work with him. I been down his office a few, more than few times, although his Boston office, anyway, I think he's, I'm not sure he's in Newton. He's in Newton. Yeah. Is he still in Newton? Okay. But anyway, it reminded me of something that happened in a similar vein, and that was several years ago. I was at a fast forward forward conference, future forward conference, and a company, EMC, who absorbed by Dell, I think, right, yes, where they all are. So there I was surprised that when that happened. But hey, yeah, yeah, I was surprised that compact bought depth, so that's okay, yeah, right. That HP bought count, right? That whole thing happened. But um, their chief science, chief scientist, I think he was a their CSO chief scientist, Doc. Came up and made this presentation. And basically the presentation was using voice recognition. They had been hired by the NSA. So it was a NSA right to use voice recognition in a way where they would recognize voices and then record those voices into it, out the output the transcript of that right text, text files, and feed them back to, you know, the NSA agents, right? So here's the funny part of that story goes up i i waited he gave his presentation. This is amazing technology, and what could it was like, 99% accurate in terms of not just recognizing American, English speaking people, but a number of different other languages, in dialects. And the guy who gave the presentation, I actually knew, because he had been a dec for many years. So in the Q and A Part I raised by hand. I got up there. He didn't recognize it a few years had gone by. And I said, you know, this is amazing technology. We could really use this in the field that I work in. And he said, Well, how's that? And I said, you know, voice recognition and outputting text would allow us to do now this is probably 2008 2009 somewhere in that area, would allow us to do real time, automated transcription for the Deaf, Captioning. And he looks at me and he he says, Do I know you? This is through a live audience. I said. I said, Yeah, Mark is it was. Mark said, So Mike gas yellow. He said, you're the only guy in town that I know that could turn a advanced, emerging technology into something for people with disabilities. I can't believe it. So that was, that was, but there was kind of the opposite. It was a technology they were focused on making this, you know, this technology available for, you know, government, obviously covert reasons that if they were using it and applying it in a good way for people with disabilities, man, we'd have been much faster, much further along or even today, right? I mean, it's being done, still not as good, not as good as that, as I saw. But that just goes to show you what, what commercial and government funding can do when it's applied properly?   Michael Hingson ** 27:41 Well, Dragon, naturally speaking, has certainly come a long way since the original Dragon Dictate. But there's still errors, there's still things, but it does get better, but I hear exactly what you're saying, and the reality is that we don't tend to think in broad enough strokes for a lot of the things that we do, which is so unfortunate,   Mike Paciello ** 28:03 yeah? I mean, I've had an old saying that I've walked around for a long time. I should have, I should make a baseball cap, whether something or T shirt. And it simply was, think accessibility, yeah, period. If, if, if we, organizations, people, designers, developers, architects, usability, people, QA, people. If everybody in the, you know, in the development life cycle was thinking about accessibility, or accessibility was integrated, when we say accessibility, we're talking about again, for users with disabilities, if that became part of, if not the functional catalyst, for technology. Man, we'd have been a lot further along in the quote, unquote value chains than we are today.   Michael Hingson ** 28:46 One of the big things at least, that Apple did do was they built voiceover into their operating system, so anybody who buys any Apple device today automatically has redundancy here, but access to accessibility, right? Which, which is really the way it ought to be. No offense to vispero and jaws, because they're they're able to fill the gap. But still, if Microsoft had truly devoted the time that they should have to narrate her at the beginning. We might see a different kind of an architecture today.   Mike Paciello ** 29:26 You know, I so I want to, by the way, the person that invented that wrote that code is Mike shabanik. That's his name I was thinking about. So Mike, if you're listening to this guy, just hi from two others. And if he's not, he should be, yeah, yeah, exactly right from two other mics. But so let me ask you this question, because I legitimately can't remember this, and have had a number of discussions with Mike about this. So VoiceOver is native to the US, right?   Michael Hingson ** 29:56 But no, well, no to to the to the to the. Products, but not just the US. No,   Mike Paciello ** 30:02 no, I said, OS, yes, it's native to OS, yeah, right. It's native that way, right? But doesn't it still use an off screen model for producing or, you know, translate the transformation of, you know, on screen to voice.   Michael Hingson ** 30:27 I'm not sure that's totally true. Go a little bit deeper into that for me.   Mike Paciello ** 30:34 Well, I mean, so NVDA and jaws use this off screen model, right, which is functionally, they grab, will they grab some content, or whatever it is, push it to this, you know, little black box, do all those translations, you know, do all the transformation, and then push it back so it's renderable to a screen reader. Okay, so that's this off screen model that is transparent to the users, although now you know you can get into it and and tweak it and work with it right, right? I recall when Mike was working on the original design of of nary, excuse me, a voiceover, and he had called me, and I said, Are you going to continue with the notion of an off screen model? And he said, Yeah, we are. And I said, Well, when you can build something that's more like what TV Raman has built into Emacs, and it works integral to the actual OS, purely native. Call me because then I'm interested in, but now that was, you know, 1520, years ago, right? I mean, how long has voiceover been around,   Michael Hingson ** 31:51 since 2007   Mike Paciello ** 31:54 right? So, yeah, 20 years ago, right? Just shy of 20 years, 18 years. So I don't know. I honestly don't know. I'm   Michael Hingson ** 32:02 not totally sure, but I believe that it is, but I can, you know, we'll have to, we'll have to look into that.   Mike Paciello ** 32:08 If anyone in the audience is out there looking at you, get to us before we find out. Let us we'll find out at the NFB   Michael Hingson ** 32:12 convention, because they're going to be a number of Apple people there. We can certainly ask, there   Mike Paciello ** 32:17 you go. That's right, for sure. James Craig is bound to be there. I can ask him and talk to him about that for sure. Yep, so anyway,   Michael Hingson ** 32:23 but I think, I think it's a very it's a valid point. And you know, the the issue is that, again, if done right and app developers are doing things right there, there needs to, there ought to be a way that every app has some level of accessibility that makes it more available. And the reality is, people, other than blind people use some of these technologies as well. So we're talking about voice input. You know, quadriplegics, for example, who can't operate a keyboard will use or a mouse can use, like a puff and zip stick to and and Dragon to interact with a computer and are successful at doing it. The reality is, there's a whole lot more opportunities out there than people think. Don't   Mike Paciello ** 33:11 I agree with that. I'm shaking my head up and down Mike and I'm telling you, there is, I mean, voice recognition alone. I can remember having a conversation with Tony vitality, one of the CO inventors of the deck talk. And that goes all the way back into the, you know, into the early 90s, about voice recognition and linguistics and what you know, and I know Kurzweil did a lot of working with Terry right on voice utterances and things like that. Yeah, yeah. There's, there's a wide open window of opportunity there for study and research that could easily be improved. And as you said, and this is the point, it doesn't just improve the lives of the blind or low vision. It improves the lives of a number of different types of Persona, disability persona types, but it would certainly create a pathway, a very wide path, for individuals, users without disabilities, in a number of different life scenarios.   Michael Hingson ** 34:10 Yeah, and it's amazing how little sometimes that's done. I had the pleasure a few years ago of driving a Tesla down Interstate 15 out here in California. Glad I wasn't there. You bigot, you know, the co pilot system worked. Yeah, you know, I just kept my hands on the wheel so I didn't very much, right? Not have any accidents. Back off now it worked out really well, but, but here's what's really interesting in that same vehicle, and it's something that that I find all too often is is the case if I were a passenger sitting in the front seat, there's so much that I as a passenger don't have access to that other passenger. Do radios now are mostly touchscreen right, which means and they don't build in the features that would make the touchscreen system, which they could do, accessible. The Tesla vehicle is incredibly inaccessible. And there's for a guy who's so innovative, there's no reason for that to be that way. And again, I submit that if they truly make the product so a blind person could use it. Think of how much more a sighted person who doesn't have to take their eyes off the road could use the same technologies.   Mike Paciello ** 35:35 You know, Mike, again, you and I are on the same page. I mean, imagine these guys are supposed to be creative and imaginative and forward thinking, right? Could you? Can you imagine a better tagline than something along the lines of Tesla, so user friendly that a blind person can drive it? Yeah? I mean this is, have you heard or seen, you know, metaphorically speaking, or that's okay, a an advertisement or PR done by any, any company, because they're all, all the way across the board, that hasn't featured what it can do to enhance lives of people with disabilities. Where it wasn't a hit. I mean, literally, it was, yeah, you see these commercials played over and over to Apple, Microsoft, Emma, I see McDonald's, Walmart. I mean, I could just name, name the one after another. Really, really outstanding. Salesforce has done it. Just incredible. They would do it, yeah. I mean, there is there any more human centric message than saying, Look what we've built and designed we're releasing to the masses and everyone, anyone, regardless of ability, can use it. Yeah, that, to me, is that's, I agree that's a good route, right for marketing and PR, good,   Michael Hingson ** 37:03 yeah. And yet they don't, you know, I see commercials like about one of the one of the eye injections, or whatever Bobby is, Mo or whatever it is. And at the beginning, the woman says, I think I'm losing sight of the world around me. You know that's all about, right? It's eyesight and nothing else. And I appreciate, I'm all for people keeping their eyesight and doing what's necessary. But unfortunately, all too often, we do that at the detriment of of other people, which is so unfortunate.   Mike Paciello ** 37:39 Yeah, you know again, not to, not to get off the subject, but one of my favorite books is rethinking competitive advantage, by Ram Sharon. I don't know if you know know him, but the guy is one of my heroes in terms of just vision and Business and Technology. And in this, this book, he wrote this a couple of years ago. He said this one this is his first rule of competition in the digital age. The number one rule was simply this, a personalized consumer experience, key to exponential growth. That's exactly you and I are talking about personally. I want to see interfaces adapt to users, rather than what we have today, which is users having to adapt to the interface.   Michael Hingson ** 38:32 Yeah, and it would make so much sense to do so. I hope somebody out there is listening and will maybe take some of this to heart, because if they do it right, they can have a huge market in no time at all, just because they show they care. You know, Nielsen Company did a survey back in 2016 where they looked at a variety of companies and consumers and so on. And if I recall the numbers right, they decided that people with disabilities are 35% more likely to continue to work with and shop, for example, at companies that really do what they can to make their websites and access to their products accessible, as opposed to not. And that's that's telling. It's so very telling. But we don't see people talking about that nearly like we should   Mike Paciello ** 39:20 you talk about a business value proposition. There is bullet proof that where you are leaving money on the table, yep, and a lot of it, yeah, exactly. We're not talking about 1000s or hundreds of 1000s. We're talking about billions and trillions, in some instances, not an exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination, very, very simple math. I had this conversation a couple years ago with the CEO of Pearson. At that time, he's retired, but, you know, I told him, if you spent $1 for every person that it was in the world with. Disability, you're, you're, you're talking about 1/4 of the population, right? It's simple math, simple math,   Michael Hingson ** 40:08 but people still won't do it. I mean, we taught you to mention section 508, before with the whole issue of web access, how much of the government has really made their websites accessible, even though it's the law?   Mike Paciello ** 40:19 Yeah, three years, three or four years ago, they did a study, and they found out that the good that every federal agency, most of the federal agencies, were not even keeping up thinking with reporting of the status, of where they were, and yet that was written right into the five way law. They were mandated to do it, and they still did do   Michael Hingson ** 40:37 it. We haven't, you know, the whole Americans with Disabilities Act. Finally, the Department of Justice said that the internet is a place of business, but still, it's not written in the law. And of course, we only see about 3% of all websites that tend to have any level of access. And there's no reason for that. It's not that magical. And again, I go back to what do we do to get schools and those who teach people how to code to understand the value of putting in accessibility right from the outset?   Mike Paciello ** 41:10 Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. I think this is what Kate sanka is trying to do with with Teach access. In fact, you know, again, my company, TPG was one of the founding companies have teach access back again, 10 years ago, when it first started. But that's where it starts. I mean, they're, they're pretty much focused on post secondary, university education, but I could tell you on a personal level, I was speaking at my kids grade school, elementary school, because they were already using laptops and computers back then it starts. Then you've got to build a mindset. You've got to build it we you've heard about the accessibility, maturity models coming out of the W, 3c, and in I, double AP. What that speaks to fundamentally, is building a culture within your corporate organization that is think accessibility as a think accessibility mindset, that it is woven into the fiber of every business line, in every technology, software development life cycle, all of the contributors at that level, from A to Z. But if you don't build it into the culture, it's not going to happen. So I would love to see a lot more being done at that level. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a hero. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:34 we're, we're left out of the conversation so much. Yeah, yeah, totally. So you, you sold TPG, and you then formed, or you had web able and then able Docs.   Mike Paciello ** 42:48 So what web able came out was a carve out, one of two carve outs that I had from when I sold TPG. The other was open access technologies, which which eventually was sold to another accessibility company primarily focused on making documentation accessible to meet the WCAG and other standards requirements and web able I carved out. It's been a kind of a hobby of mine now, for since I sold TPG, I'm still working on the back end, ironically, from the get go, so we're talking, you know, again, eight years ago, I had built machine learning and AI into it. From then back then, I did so that what it does is it very simply, goes out and collects 1000s and 1000s of articles as it relates to technology, people with disabilities, and then cleans them up and post them to web able.com I've got a lot more playing for it, but that's in a nutshell. That's what it does. And I don't we do some we do some QA review to make sure that the cleanup in terms of accessibility and the articles are are properly formatted and are accessible. We use the web aim API, but yeah, works like magic. Works like clockwork, and that's got aI uses IBM Watson AI built into it. Yeah, enable docs was abledocs was, how should I say this in a nice way, abledocs was a slight excursion off of my main route. It can work out. I wish it had. It had a lot of potential, much like open access technologies, but they both suffered from owners who really, really not including myself, who just didn't have good vision and in lack humility,   Michael Hingson ** 44:43 yeah. How's that? There you go. Well, so not to go political or anything, but AI in general is interesting, and I know that there have been a lot of debates over the last few years about artificial. Intelligence and helping to make websites accessible. There are several companies like AudioEye, user way, accessibe and so on that to one degree or another, use AI. What? What? So in general, what do you think about AI and how it's going to help deal with or not, the whole issue of disabilities and web access,   Mike Paciello ** 45:22 yeah, and we're going to set aside Neil Jacobs thoughts on how he sees it in the future, right? Although I have to tell you, he gave me some things to think about, so we'll just set that to to the side. So I think what AI offers today is something that I thought right away when it started to see the, you know, the accessibes, the user ways, the audio, eyes, and all the other companies kind of delving into it, I always saw potential to how's this remediate a fundamental problem or challenge, let's not call it a problem, a challenge that we were otherwise seeing in the professional services side of that equation around web accessibility, right? So you get experts who use validation tools and other tools, who know about code. Could go in and they know and they use usability, they use user testing, and they go in and they can tell you what you need to do to make your digital properties right, usable and accessible. People with disabilities, all well and good. That's great. And believe me, I had some of the best people, if not the best people in the world, work for me at one time. However, there are a couple of things it could not do in it's never going to do. Number one, first and foremost, from my perspective, it can't scale. It cannot scale. You can do some things at, you know, in a large way. For example, if, if a company is using some sort of, you know, CMS content management system in which their entire sites, you know, all their sites, all their digital properties, you know, are woven into templates, and those templates are remediated. So that cuts down a little bit on the work. But if you go into companies now, it's not like they're limited to two or three templates. Now they've got, you know, department upon department upon department, everybody's got a different template. So even those are becoming very vos, very verbose and very plentiful. So accessibility as a manual effort doesn't really scale well. And if it does, even if it could, it's not fast enough, right? So that's what AI does, AI, coupled with automation, speeds up that process and delivers a much wider enterprise level solution. Now again, AI automation is not, is not a whole, is not a holistic science. You know, it's not a silver bullet. David Marathi likes to use the term, what is he? He likes the gold standard. Well, from his perspective, and by the way, David Marathi is CEO of audio. Eye is a combination of automation AI in expert analysis, along with the use of the integration of user testing and by user testing, it's not just personas, but it's also compatibility with the assistive technologies that people with disabilities use. Now, when you do that, you've got something that you could pattern after a standard software development life cycle, environment in which you integrate all of these things. So if you got a tool, you integrate it there. If you've got, you know, a digital accessibility platform which does all this automation, AI, right, which, again, this is the this is a forester foresters take on the the the daps, as they calls it. And not really crazy about that, but that's what they are. Digital Accessibility platforms. It allows us to scale and scale at costs that are much lower, at speeds that are much faster, and it's just a matter of like any QA, you've got to check your work, and you've got it, you can't count on that automation being absolute. We know for a fact that right now, at best, we're going to be able to get 35 to 40% accuracy, some claim, larger different areas. I'm still not convinced of that, but the fact of the matter is, it's like anything else. Technology gets better as it goes, and we'll see improvements over time periods.   Michael Hingson ** 49:49 So here's here's my thought, yeah, let's say you use AI in one of the products that's out there. And I. You go to a website and you include it, and it reasonably well makes the website 50% more usable and accessible than it was before. I'm just, I just threw out that number. I know it's random. Go ahead, Yep, yeah, but let's say it does that. The reality is that means that it's 50% that the web developers, the web coders, don't have to do because something else is dealing with it. But unfortunately, their mentality is not to want to deal with that because they also fear it. But, you know, I remember back in the mid 1980s I started a company because I went off and tried to find a job and couldn't find one. So I started a company with a couple of other people, where we sold early PC based CAD systems to architects, right? And we had AutoCAD versus CAD. Another one called point line, which was a three dimensional system using a y cap solid modeling board that took up two slots in your PC. So it didn't work with all PCs because we didn't have enough slots. But anyway, right, right, right. But anyway, when I brought architects in and we talked about what it did and we showed them, many of them said, I'll never use that. And I said, why? Well, it does work, and that's not the question. But the issue is, we charge by the time, and so we take months to sometimes create designs and projects, right? And so we can't lose that revenue. I said, you're looking at it all wrong. Think about it this way, somebody gives you a job, you come back and you put it in the CAD system. You go through all the iterations it takes, let's just say, two weeks. Then you call your customer in. You use point line, and you can do a three dimensional walk through and fly through. You can even let them look out the window and see what there is and all that they want to make changes. They tell you the changes. You go off and you make the changes. And two weeks later, now it's a month, you give them their finished product, all the designs, all the plots and all that, all done, and you charge them exactly the same price you were going to charge them before. Now you're not charging for your time, you're charging for your expertise, right? And I think that same model still holds true that the technology, I think most people will agree that it is not perfect, but there are a lot of things that it can do. Because the reality is, the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, are all things that can be defined with computer code, whether it necessarily does it all well with AI or not, is another story. But if it does it to a decent fraction, it makes all the difference in terms of what you're able to do and how quickly you can do   Mike Paciello ** 52:52 it. Yeah, I can argue with that at all. I think any time that we can make our jobs a little bit easier so that we can focus where we should be focused. In this case, as you said, the expertise side of it, right to fix those complicated scenarios or situations that require a hands on surgical like Right? Expertise, you can do that now. You've got more hours more time because it's been saved. The only thing I would say, Mike, about what, what you just said, is that there with that, with that mindset, okay, comes responsibility. Oh, yeah, in this is where I think in everybody that knows anything about this environment, you and I have an intimate understanding of this. The whole overlay discussion is the biggest problem with what happened was less about the technology and more about what claims are being made. Yeah, the technology could do which you could not do in, in some cases, could never do, or would never, would never do, well, right? So if you create, and I would submit this is true in as a fundamental principle, if you create a technology of any kind, you must, in truth, inform your clients of of what it can and cannot do so they understand the absolute value to them, because the last thing you want, because, again, we live in a, unfortunately, a very litigious world. Right soon as there's   Michael Hingson ** 54:49 a mistake couldn't happen,   Mike Paciello ** 54:51 they'll go right after you. So now you know, and again, I don't I'm not necessarily just blaming the ambulance chasers of the world. World. I was talking to an NFP lawyer today. He referred to them in a different name, and I can't remember well, I never heard the expression before, but that's what he meant, right? Yeah, it's the salesman and the product managers and the marketing people themselves, who are were not themselves, to your point, properly trained, properly educated, right? It can't be done, what clearly could not be said, what should or should not be said, right? And then you got lawyers writing things all over the place. So, yeah, yeah. So, so I look people knew when I made the decision to come to audio eye that it was a make or break scenario for me, or at least that's what they thought in my mindset. It always, has always been, that I see incredible possibilities as you do or technology, it just has to be handled responsibly.   Michael Hingson ** 55:56 Do you think that the companies are getting better and smarter about what they portray about their products than they than they were three and four and five years ago.   Mike Paciello ** 56:08 Okay, look, I sat in and chaired a meeting with the NFB on this whole thing. And without a doubt, they're getting smarter. But it took not just a stick, you know, but, but these large lawsuits to get them to change their thinking, to see, you know, where they where they were wrong, and, yeah, things are much better. There's still some issues out there. I both know it that's going to happen, that happens in every industry,   Michael Hingson ** 56:42 but there are improvements. It is getting better, and people are getting smarter, and that's where an organization like the NFB really does need to become more involved than in a sense, they are. They took some pretty drastic steps with some of the companies, and I think that they cut off their nose, despite their face as well, and that didn't help. So I think there are things that need to be done all the way around, but I do see that progress is being made too. I totally   Mike Paciello ** 57:11 agree, and in fact, I'm working with them right now. We're going to start working on the California Accessibility Act again. I'm really looking forward to working with the NFB, the DRC and Imperato over there and his team in the disability rights consortium, consortium with disability rights. What DRC coalition, coalition in in California. I can't wait to do that. We tried last year. We got stopped short. It got tabled, but I feel very good about where we're going this year. So that's, that's my that's, that is my focus right now. And I'm glad I'm going to be able to work with the NFB to be able to do that. Yeah, well, I, I really do hope that it passes. We've seen other states. We've seen some states pass some good legislation, and hopefully we will continue to see some of that go on. Yeah, Colorado has done a great job. Colorado sent a great job. I think they've done it. I really like what's being done with the EAA, even though it's in Europe, and some of the things that are going there, Susanna, Lauren and I had some great discussions. I think she is has been a leader of a Yeoman effort at that level. So we'll see. Let's, let's, I mean, there's still time out here. I guess I really would like to retire,   Michael Hingson ** 58:28 but I know the feeling well, but I can't afford to yet, so I'll just keep speaking and all that well, Mike, this has been wonderful. I really appreciate you taking an hour and coming on, and at least neither of us is putting up with any kind of snow right now, but later in the year we'll see more of that.   Mike Paciello ** 58:45 Yeah, well, maybe you will. We don't get snow down. I have. We've gotten maybe 25 flakes in North Carolina since I've been here.   Michael Hingson ** 58:53 Yeah, you don't get a lot of snow. We don't hear we don't really get it here, around us, up in the mountains, the ski resorts get it, but I'm out in a valley, so we don't, yeah,   Mike Paciello ** 59:02 yeah, no. I love it. I love this is golfing weather.   Michael Hingson ** 59:05 There you go. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Mike Paciello ** 59:11 There's a couple of ways. Certainly get in touch with me at AudioEye. It's michael.paciello@audioeye.com   Michael Hingson ** 59:17 B, A, C, I, E, L, L, O,   Mike Paciello ** 59:18 that's correct. Thank you for that. You could send me personal email at Mike paciello@gmail.com and or you can send me email at web able. It's m passielo at web able.com, any one of those ways. And please feel free you get on all the social networks. So feel free to link, connect to me. Anyway, I try to respond. I don't think there's anyone I I've not responded to one form or another.   Michael Hingson ** 59:46 Yeah, I'm I'm the same way. If I get an email, I want to respond to it. Yeah, well, thanks again for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening. We really appreciate it. Love to hear your thoughts about this episode. Please feel free to email. Me, you can get me the email address I generally use is Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, or you can go to our podcast page, which is Michael hingson.com/podcast, and there's a contact form there. But love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts, and most of all, please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening. We value your ratings and your reviews a whole lot, so we really appreciate you doing that. And if any of you, and Mike, including you, can think of other people that you think ought to be guests on the podcast, we are always looking for more people, so fill us up, help us find more folks. And we would appreciate that a great deal. So again, Mike, thanks very much. This has been a lot of fun, and we'll have to do it again.   Mike Paciello ** 1:00:44 Thanks for the invitation. Mike, I really appreciate it. Don't forget to add 10 Nakata to your list,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:49 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Episode Overview In this episode of the Solar Maverick Podcast, Benoy Thanjan speaks with Robb Jetty, CEO of REC Solar.  Rob shares insights from his 23-year journey in renewable energy, REC's behind-the-meter and utility-scale development strategy, and the company's active role in greenfield projects, energy storage, and asset repowering. Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy and he is also an advisor for several solar startup companies.  He has extensive project origination, development, and financial experience in the renewable energy industry and in the environmental commodities market.   This includes initial site evaluation, permitting, financing, sourcing equipment, and negotiating the long-term energy and environmental commodities off-take agreements. He manages due diligence processes on land, permitting, and utility interconnection and is in charge of financing and structuring through Note to Proceed (“NTP”) to Commercial Operation Date (“COD”). Benoy composes teams suitable for all project development and construction tasks. He is also involved in project planning and pipeline financial modeling. He has been part of all sides of the transaction and this allows him to provide unique perspectives and value. Benoy has extensive experience in financial engineering to make solar projects profitable. Before founding Reneu Energy, he was the SREC Trader in the Project Finance Group for SolarCity which merged with Tesla in 2016.  He originated SREC trades with buyers and co-developed their SREC monetization and hedging strategy with the senior management of SolarCity to move into the east coast markets.  Benoy was the Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners which is a national solar installer where he focused on project finance solutions for commercial scale solar projects.  He also worked for Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund, where he analyzed potential investments in renewable energy projects and worked on maximizing the financial return of the projects in the portfolio.  Benoy also worked on the sale of all of the renewable energy projects in Ridgewood's portfolio.   He was in the Energy Structured Finance practice for Deloitte & Touche and in Financial Advisory Services practice at Ernst & Young.  Benoy received his first experience in Finance as an intern at D.E. Shaw & Co., which is a global investment firm with 37 billion dollars in investment capital. He has a MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from the Stern School of Business at New York University.  Benoy was an Alumni Scholar at the Stern School of Business.  Robb Jetty Rob Jetty is the Chief Executive Officer of REC Solar, a leading independent power producer (IPP) and clean energy developer focused on delivering innovative behind-the-meter and small utility-scale solar and storage solutions across the U.S. With over 23 years of experience in the renewable energy industry, Rob has built a career spanning the full lifecycle of clean energy development—from founding a regional EPC firm in 2002 to holding senior leadership roles at some of the industry's most influential organizations, including Recurrent Energy, General Electric, and EDF Renewables. As CEO of REC Solar, Rob is steering the company's strategic growth following its 2023 acquisition by ArcLight Capital Partners. Under his leadership, REC is focused on expanding its operating fleet through greenfield development, M&A, and repowering of aging solar assets. The company operates more than 150 solar projects totaling approximately 300 MW across 16 states. Rob's deep understanding of project development, corporate procurement, and grid-scale renewables enables REC to serve diverse sectors including food & beverage, cold storage, special districts (MUSH market), and fleet electrification. Notably, the company led the development of a solar-powered EV bus charging hub for the Anaheim Transportation Network, and a microgrid at Kona Village Resort in Hawaii, supporting resilience and clean energy access.   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   Robb Jetty LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertjetty/ Website: https://recsolar.com/ REC Solar Case Studies:  https://recsolar.com/resources/case-studies/

What ideas haunt you? What can't you stop thinking about, you care about it that much? As public voices and experts, we all have those ideas that chase us around and color how we see everything. The thing is, our audience might not "get it" the way we do, nor care. So we have to work overtime to show them why they would. This in turn creates a sense of urgency in the audience: to care, share, subscribe, buy, or take action of some kind.That kind of urgency is the role of the story we'll hear today for my friend, Mark Schaefer. It's a story from his keynotes and his new book, AUDACIOUS: How Humans Win in an AI Marketing WorldMark is a globally-touring keynote speaker and the author of more than 10 books on marketing, technology, and business growth. He's worked with clients like Adidas, Johnson & Johnson, and Dell, and has appeared on CNN and in The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times. In addition to his speaking and services, Mark is also faculty member of the graduate program at Rutgers University, and hosts the popular podcast The Marketing Companion—where I appear as co-host every few months!Today we talk about how to tell stories that show others something important you already see, so they care. Plus, signs you've rehearsed your speech enough to nail it and communication tripwires which can cause the audience to object to your ideas (and how to avoid them).This is a fun one, with my friend, Mark Schaefer.Find and follow Mark at businessesgrow.com and on LinkedIn. Get a copy of AUDACIOUS at businessesgrow.com/audacious***ABOUT ME, JAY ACUNZO:Subscribe to my free newsletter at jayacunzo.com/newsletterWork with me one-on-one: jayacunzo.com/servicesBook me to speak to your group: jayacunzo.com/keynotesConnect with me on social: LinkedIn, InstagramI help experts differentiate and resonate. Together, I work with you to develop a distinct and memorable premise driving your platform, turn that big idea into signature IP you own, and help you embody it as a speaker and storyteller. Compete on the impact of your thinking, not the volume of your marketing. This makes it easier to win more and better clients.You've done lots of things. Now it's time to [be] a thing. Stop chasing attention and become more highly sought.***TO RATE AND REVIEW THE SHOW:Leave a review on Apple Podcasts Leave a rating on Spotify Thanks for listening!

This week, we are joined by activist, attorney, and Rutgers University professor Noura Erakat, to contextualize the ways the US is intrinsicly implicated in the genocide, and how the lies around Zionism mirror the lies around captialsm and racism.For more content, subscribe to our Youtube and Patreon!

Welcome to Art is Awesome, the show where we talk with an artist or art worker with a connection to the San Francisco Bay Area. This week, Emily features an interview with Zeina Barakeh, an animation artist from Beirut now residing in Alameda, California. Zeina discusses her journey from studying interior design in Beirut to obtaining an MFA from the San Francisco Institute of Art and her current PhD in philosophy focused on global security. Her work often reflects her experiences with war, exemplified by her projects like 'CYBOTAGE,' which explores the neuro enhancement of soldiers using art. Zeina's art and educational journey highlight the intersection of creativity with themes of war, resistance, and personal experience. She emphasizes the importance of involving diverse voices in ethical discussions around technological advancements in warfare. About Artist Zeina Barakeh:Zeina Barakeh is a Palestinian-Lebanese artist based in the San Francisco Bay Area. Exhibitions and film festivals include: Poetry is Not a Luxury, The Center for Book Arts, New York City; Silent Narratives, Yinchuan MOCA, Yinchuan, China; Preoccupations: Palestinian Landscapes, Minnesota Street Project, San Francisco; Another Hole in the Head (15th), New People Cinema, San Francisco; The Shape of Birds: Contemporary Art of the Middle East and North Africa, Newport Art Museum, Rhode Island; Kerry Film Festival (19th), Killarney Co. Kerry, Ireland; Altered, Gallery106, Minnesota Street Project, San Francisco; PHOTOFAIRS SF, Connected: The Channel of Democracy: Womanhood, Power & Freedom in Video Art, Fort Mason Center for Arts & Culture, San Francisco; Blue Plum Animation Festival (13th), Johnson City, Tennessee; Detritus, San Jose Institute of Contemporary Art, San Jose; What Makes Us?, Focus Gallery, Zimmerli Art Museum, New Jersey; Harlem International Film Festival (11th), MIST Harlem, New York City; Creation Stories, Johnson & Johnson World Headquarters Gallery, New Jersey; Bring It Home: (Re)Locating Cultural Legacy Through the Body, San Francisco Arts Commission Galleries, San Francisco; PULSE New York, Art Fair, New York City; UNTITITLED, Art Fair, Miami Beach, Florida; Editions/Artists' Book Fair, New York City; International Film Awards Berlin, KINO im Kulturhaus Spandau, Berlin; The Chasm Arena, Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, San Francisco; Women Redrawing the World Stage, SOHO20 Chelsea Gallery, New York City; The Fertile Crescent: Gender, Art, and Society, Bernstein Gallery, Princeton University, New Jersey; The Third Half, The Public Theater, New York City; Facettes, Espace SD, Beirut. Residency awards include: Perspectives: Here and There, Brodsky Center for Innovative Editions, Rutgers University, New Jersey; and Vermont Studio Center.Zeina worked for numerous years at the San Francisco Art Institute, with her last position being Assistant Dean of Academic Affairs. She currently teaches art at Cal State East Bay university as a lecturer.Visit Zeina's Website: ZeinaBarakeh.comFollow Zeina on Instagram: @Zeina.BarakehFor more on Zeina's exhibit "CYBOTAGE" at the Catharine Clark Gallery, CLICK HERE. --About Podcast Host Emily Wilson:Emily a writer in San Francisco, with work in outlets including Hyperallergic, Artforum, 48 Hills, the Daily Beast, California Magazine, Latino USA, and Women's Media Center. She often writes about the arts. For years, she taught adults getting their high school diplomas at City College of San Francisco.Follow Emily on Instagram: @PureEWilFollow Art Is Awesome on Instagram: @ArtIsAwesome_Podcast--CREDITS:Art Is Awesome is Hosted, Created & Executive Produced by Emily Wilson. Theme Music "Loopster" Courtesy of Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 LicenseThe Podcast is Co-Produced, Developed & Edited by Charlene Goto of @GoToProductions. For more info, visit Go-ToProductions.com

In this episode, Laura Arroyo sits down with Dr. Aditi Kanth, a board-certified plastic surgeon and fellowship-trained pediatric plastic and craniofacial surgeon. As co-director of the Rutgers Health Cleft and Craniofacial Program at Bristol Myers Squibb Children's Hospital in New Brunswick, New Jersey, Dr. Kanth shares her deep commitment to patient and family-centered care. Together, they discuss the importance of having the right conversations with patients, creating a gentle and compassionate environment, and ensuring families feel supported throughout their cleft and craniofacial journeys. Dr. Kanth also opens up about being a mom to her two-year-old and how her personal connection to clefts in her own family fuels her passion for increasing access to care and making families feel comfortable every step of the way. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that blends professional expertise with heartfelt dedication to the cleft community. Links and Resources: Patreon Subscription Tiers for Exclusive Content Our Forever Smiles Merch Store NC Cleft Mom FB Group Our Forever Smiles FB Group ______________________________________________________________________________ Today's sponsor is sienna dawn media Integrated Marketing Agency  sienna dawn media is more than just a marketing agency—they are your partners in progress. Their mission is simple — to alleviate marketing bandwidth, allowing creative business owners to focus on what they set out to do: create. sienna dawn media empowers creatives to thrive without the burden of managing their own social media and marketing campaigns. So, if you're ready to set sail toward new horizons, let sienna dawn media chart the course and steer your business toward success. Visit siennadawnmedia.com.  

Much of world history is Indian history. Home today to one in four people, the subcontinent has long been densely populated and deeply connected to Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Americas through migration and trade. In this magisterial history, Audrey Truschke tells the fascinating story of the region historically known as India--which includes today's India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and parts of Afghanistan--and the people who have lived there. A sweeping account of five millennia, from the dawn of the Indus Valley Civilization to the twenty-first century, this engaging and richly textured narrative chronicles the most important political, social, religious, intellectual, and cultural events. And throughout, it describes how the region has been continuously reshaped by its astonishing diversity, religious and political innovations, and social stratification. Here, readers will learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, and Sikhism; the Vedas and Mahabharata; Ashoka and the Mauryan Empire; the Silk Road; the Cholas; Indo-Persian rule; the Mughal Empire; European colonialism; national independence movements; the 1947 Partition of India; the recent rise of Hindu nationalism; the challenges of climate change; and much more. Emphasizing the diversity of human experiences on the subcontinent, the book presents a wide range of voices, including those of women, religious minorities, lower classes, and other marginalized groups. You cannot understand India today without appreciating its deeply contested history, which continues to drive current events and controversies. A comprehensive and innovative book, India is essential reading for anyone who is interested in the past, present, or future of the subcontinent. Audrey Truschke is professor of South Asian history at Rutgers University, Newark. She is the bestselling author of Aurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India's Most Controversial King and other books. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Much of world history is Indian history. Home today to one in four people, the subcontinent has long been densely populated and deeply connected to Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Americas through migration and trade. In this magisterial history, Audrey Truschke tells the fascinating story of the region historically known as India--which includes today's India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and parts of Afghanistan--and the people who have lived there. A sweeping account of five millennia, from the dawn of the Indus Valley Civilization to the twenty-first century, this engaging and richly textured narrative chronicles the most important political, social, religious, intellectual, and cultural events. And throughout, it describes how the region has been continuously reshaped by its astonishing diversity, religious and political innovations, and social stratification. Here, readers will learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, and Sikhism; the Vedas and Mahabharata; Ashoka and the Mauryan Empire; the Silk Road; the Cholas; Indo-Persian rule; the Mughal Empire; European colonialism; national independence movements; the 1947 Partition of India; the recent rise of Hindu nationalism; the challenges of climate change; and much more. Emphasizing the diversity of human experiences on the subcontinent, the book presents a wide range of voices, including those of women, religious minorities, lower classes, and other marginalized groups. You cannot understand India today without appreciating its deeply contested history, which continues to drive current events and controversies. A comprehensive and innovative book, India is essential reading for anyone who is interested in the past, present, or future of the subcontinent. Audrey Truschke is professor of South Asian history at Rutgers University, Newark. She is the bestselling author of Aurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India's Most Controversial King and other books. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/south-asian-studies

Much of world history is Indian history. Home today to one in four people, the subcontinent has long been densely populated and deeply connected to Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Americas through migration and trade. In this magisterial history, Audrey Truschke tells the fascinating story of the region historically known as India--which includes today's India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and parts of Afghanistan--and the people who have lived there. A sweeping account of five millennia, from the dawn of the Indus Valley Civilization to the twenty-first century, this engaging and richly textured narrative chronicles the most important political, social, religious, intellectual, and cultural events. And throughout, it describes how the region has been continuously reshaped by its astonishing diversity, religious and political innovations, and social stratification. Here, readers will learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, and Sikhism; the Vedas and Mahabharata; Ashoka and the Mauryan Empire; the Silk Road; the Cholas; Indo-Persian rule; the Mughal Empire; European colonialism; national independence movements; the 1947 Partition of India; the recent rise of Hindu nationalism; the challenges of climate change; and much more. Emphasizing the diversity of human experiences on the subcontinent, the book presents a wide range of voices, including those of women, religious minorities, lower classes, and other marginalized groups. You cannot understand India today without appreciating its deeply contested history, which continues to drive current events and controversies. A comprehensive and innovative book, India is essential reading for anyone who is interested in the past, present, or future of the subcontinent. Audrey Truschke is professor of South Asian history at Rutgers University, Newark. She is the bestselling author of Aurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India's Most Controversial King and other books.

Are you willing to follow the evidence wherever it leads? Revolutionary developments in biology, such as purpose, agency, and decision-making at the cellular level, are providing stronger evidence than ever before of a purposeful creator God. My guest, Dr. Sy Garte, will show how a reductionist view of life ignores new advances in science and why we need to look beyond the evolution debate. Come join the conversation and bring your questions! Sy Garte (PhD in Biochemistry) has been a tenured professor at New York University, Rutgers University, and the University of Pittsburgh; division director at the Center for Scientific Review of the National Institutes of Health; and interim vice president for research at Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences. He has published more than two hundred peer-reviewed scientific papers and five books. Currently, Dr. Garte serves as editor-in-chief of the American Scientific Affiliation's (ASA) online quarterly magazine, God and Nature, and also as vice president for the Washington, DC, metro chapter of the ASA. He also served as a member of the board of advisors of the John Templeton Foundation. Dr. Garte converted to Christianity from an atheist family background, and he is now a certified lay servant in the United Methodist Church in Rockville, Maryland.

Dr. Tracey Shors is a Distinguished Professor in Behavioral and Systems Neuroscience in the Department of Psychology at Rutgers University, where she is also a member of the Center for Collaborative Neuroscience. Dr. Shors has more than 150 scientific publications in journals including Nature, Science, PNAS and Nature Neuroscience, and her research findings have been featured in popular publications such as Scientific American, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and on NPR and CNN. Her research efforts were recently recognized with W. Horsley Gantt Medal from the Pavlovian Society for the"noble pursuit of truth."Dr. Shors' research program studies how our brains learn, including how they learn to ruminate on trauma-related memories and how this process can interfere with our everyday lives, while making still more memories. Dr. Shors is also focused on identifying effective tools for reducing repetitive thoughts that reinforce our everyday traumas. Her popular press book, Everyday Trauma (Flatiron,2021), reviews the causes and consequences of trauma as well as the most effective treatments. It has been translated in six languages. Her brain fitness program, known as MAP Train My Brain combines “mental and physical” training with silent meditation and aerobic exercise to enhance brain health through effortful learning. To try out her free 6-week online course, sign up at maptrainmybrain.com.Dr. Tracy Shor's InstagramSupport the show

Stephanie O'Brien formed her company, Coach Client Connection, 13 years ago to help coaches and experts connect with the people who need their services. She grew up in Manitoba Canada. She says that as a child she had great difficulties in developing relationships with her fellow children. As she said during our conversation, she tended to be too clingy among other things.   She began writing at an early age and wrote her first full-length novel at the age of twelve. She has written 14 books, four of which she self-published. As she matured, she began connecting with writers online and found that she could create relationships with them. She then learned how to make others around her feel interesting and thus also began learning how to establish real relationships with others.   As she tells us, she also began meeting with coaches and others to improve herself and her self-esteem.   We talk quite a bit during this episode about coaching and how Stephanie has created a program to help coaches better interact with clients and others. She even gives us a free gift to help us learn how to choose and interact with coaches.     About the Guest:   Stephanie O'Brien, founder of Coach Client Connection, has been helping coaches and experts to connect with the people who need them since 2013.   Throughout her childhood, she struggled to make connections with others. As the kid who was always sending invitations to the other kids, and seldom being invited herself, she knows what it's like to feel invisible and unwanted.   She immersed herself in her writing, and completed her first full-length novel at the age of 12. She went on to write 14 novels, four of which she self-published as ebooks (she calls the rest “teenage practice”).   As she began to connect with other writers online, she gradually honed the art of building relationships by making the people around her feel interesting, wanted, and understood. She also sought healing through coaching and therapy, and experienced firsthand the transformations coaching can bring. This gave her a passion for helping coaches to share those transformations with more people, so those people can enjoy the same freedom, joy, and recovery from old wounds that she did.   Since then, Stephanie has spent over 10 years helping coaches to get noticed, connect with the people who need them, and turn their expertise into coaching programs that their clients can easily understand, implement, and turn into real results.   When serving clients, she draws on her decades of practice in writing fiction and nonfiction, her ability to see both the big picture and the little details, and her experience as a client of both great coaches and coaches who left her discouraged and disappointed. She also uses the relationship principles she discovered to help set coaches at ease, draw out more of their expertise than they even knew they had, and make the process of creating their programs easy and fun. Ways to connect with Stephanie:   https://www.coachclientconnection.com/ https://www.instagram.com/stephanieobriencoaching/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-obrien-program-design/ https://www.facebook.com/StephanieOBrienCoaching   Free Gift: https://www.coachclientconnection.com/How-to-Pick-a-Coaching-Topic-that-SELLS/   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're going to try to be unstoppable today as much as much as we can. Our guest is Stephanie O'Brien. O'Brien, good Swedish name Stephanie. I couldn't resist. It's a it's pleasure to have you here, and it's a pleasure to have all of you listening. Stephanie has been involved in coaching and connecting coaches and clients for 13 years now, my gosh, a long time, and we're going to learn all about that. And I know that Stephanie's got a lot of words of wisdom to talk about. So without further ado, as it were, let's get into all of this. So Stephanie, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 02:03 Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me here. I'm looking forward to this,   Michael Hingson ** 02:07 and as I told Stephanie earlier, the rule of the podcast is you got to have fun. So, you know, we do our best. But anyway, let's start out with kind of the early Stephanie, growing up and all that. And you know, just to learn a little bit about you if we can   Stephanie O'Brien ** 02:22 sure, a big part of the reason why later came to have a focus on helping coaches connect with people was because for me, connecting people was connecting with people was really difficult. When I was young, I'd be the kid who on Saturday morning, I'd get on the phone at a call each of my friends one by one, only to be told that they didn't want to hang out. And I was seldom the one who got a call in return. So I had a really hard time connecting with people. Admittedly, I could be a bit clingy and boring, so I have to recognize my own faults and where I had to grow from there, but at the time, I didn't really know how to fix that. So yeah, I had a hard time connecting with people. Eventually, I started connecting with people through writing. I was a pretty prolific novelist. I finished my first novel when I was 12 years old. Terrible novel. Mom told me, Steph, don't delete it. And I tell her, no, no, it's so bad I'll never want to see it again. Mother knew best. I shouldn't have deleted it. But I went on to write 14 novels, four of which were good enough by adult needs standards, to Self Publish. And while I was doing all this writing, I started connecting with other writers, talking with them about their stories. I got very good at building relationships and asking the right questions to keep the conversation going, but I just kind of learned how to connect with people through trial and error. Though I've been still worked with some mentors to get better at it still. So now I use that experience, the writing experience, the ability to phrase things in a way that's easy to understand and connect with that experience. With building relationships, I help coaches to connect with more of their ideal clients now.   Michael Hingson ** 03:49 So have you always been in Manitoba? Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 03:53 I've always lived in Manitoba. Sometimes vacations are traveled outside if it always lived here, oh   Michael Hingson ** 03:58 yeah, lot of snow in the winter, oh   Stephanie O'Brien ** 04:01 yeah, it's been less severe lately, like it's in the last few years, we've had more 30 degree days in summer, fewer 40 degree below days in winter. But it still can get pretty cold.   Michael Hingson ** 04:14 Isn't that crazy? Well, but, and of course, some people say there's no such thing as climate change. So what do you do?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 04:20 You put out the pictures of me trick or treating as a kid versus me at Halloween this year, like I went from trick or treating in blizzards to walking on grass in November one. There's a difference.   Michael Hingson ** 04:33 Well, so you you went to school? Did you go to university? Or any of that? I   Stephanie O'Brien ** 04:38 was actually homeschooled, and I went to Athabasca University online, but I didn't take a full formal university education. Instead, I learned. I took courses from various coaches and business owners to learn how to run an online business. Wow, Peter, if you're gonna do a secondary education, you may as well learn from someone who's doing what you want to do, and to teach you how to do it   Michael Hingson ** 04:57 well. And as long as that, we're. For you that that's a good thing to do.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 05:01 Yeah, you've got to choose your education based on what you're trying to learn and what you're trying to accomplish. I don't like the cookie cutter model, or you got to get a college education because, yeah, learn what's relevant.   Michael Hingson ** 05:13 Well, I think there's value in college and or university, absolutely. And I went, I went to to the university, and I think for me, probably it was the best thing to do, because back in well, in 68 to 76 when I was at the University of California at Irvine, there weren't a lot of alternatives other than college for getting access to material, accessible stuff wasn't there. In fact, majoring in physics, my books had to be transcribed into Braille and and that that was a challenge, because professors didn't always want to provide information about what books they were going to use until as late in the process as they could, just in case a new book came out. And that that didn't work for me, and so one of the things that I learned was how to work with professors, and when necessary, use higher authorities than professors at the university to get them to provide what needed to be done. So that was that was useful, but the material wasn't accessible without me making a major effort. So probably college was would have been, anyway, for me, the way to do it. But obviously what you did worked for you. And so, you know, I figure it's important to   Stephanie O'Brien ** 06:29 just go to figure out what you want to do with your life, figure out what information or courses you need on that, and then, you know, pick the source that is most appropriate to provide it. It's there's no one size fits all,   Michael Hingson ** 06:41 no, and I agree. What do you do with people who say I don't know what I want to do with my life?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 06:48 Those generally don't tend to be our target audience, but I can help them in a few ways. I can give them a few questions that they can answer. You know, they can look at what is something that they really love to talk about can't get enough of talking about so they could study this forever. Is it something that they could you know, an area where they can help get results for people. Let's say they are really into relationships. They're fascinated by human relationships. Can they help people to communicate better? Can they help people to find better, healthier partners? Can they help them to avoid common conflicts with other people? Or, you know, what's a problem that they've solved for themselves, that they've healed in their own life. You know, maybe they had a really rough cancer journey and found out, you know, what went wrong, what went right, what could have gone right more to make it easier for them. Now, I know one person who she got through breast cancer and now teaches other people how to navigate that journey a lot more smoothly than what she experienced. Yeah. So, yeah, I encourage people to, you know, look at their lives. Look at what you do for free, if you had the option, if money wasn't an object, what fascinate? See what you're passionate about, and just see, is there a way you can use that to make other people's lives better?   Michael Hingson ** 07:54 Well? And that makes a lot of sense. And we, we all should do a whole lot more introspection and analyze what we do and and even ask ourselves why we do it, because we we tend to just move ahead and do stuff and we don't think about it. And the other part of what happens as a result of that is that we try to control everything that we do, we don't think about what we're doing, and we're a lot more afraid than we should be, and then we need to be, if we would only take the time to really be introspective and learn what is it that really is going on? Why do I feel this way? And as you're pointing out, what can I do about it? But if we really take the time to analyze. Then we figure out somewhere along the line, you don't need to worry about what you can't control, just focus on the things that you can and your life is a whole lot better anyway. Oh yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 08:54 yeah, at Holyoke, give me the strength to control, our strength to change what I can the grace to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 09:02 well, and the reality is that one of the things that I talk about a lot is the mind's a muscle, and you need to develop it whoever you are, and the best way to do that is to think about what you do. I've learned that I'm not my own worst critic, I'm my own best teacher, and that's the way it should be. But I have to be open to learning and letting me and my inner voice teach. But if I do that, then I'm oftentimes, as I think back on it, very amazed at what I suddenly discovered that I didn't know before because I wouldn't take the time to think about it and study it.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 09:40 Yeah, we can get so busy, so caught up in our day to day lives, so ingrained in our routine. Sometimes it can be challenging to rattle ourselves out of that, and sometimes we need another set of eyes, or someone asking the right questions,   Michael Hingson ** 09:53 yeah, and then, and we need to take that time so. So for you. You, you studied, you worked with people. And so you what? Well, what kind of jobs did you have early in your your job world? Or did you always coach?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 10:12 Um, my first jobs, that was actually a waitress for a restaurant my mom owned, along with a couple other people. They were going to run the restaurant along with us. They were going to be the main ones owning the restaurant, and then they just kind of ditched us and left us with a restaurant we didn't know what to do with. So I was a waitress there for a bit before we sold the building and moved on. Then we tried owning rental properties for a bit, and honestly, no, never again. We were not cut out for that. It   Michael Hingson ** 10:34 was terrible, scary thing. Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 10:37 yeah, it's done. I can still lose like I'm fine with being responsible for me. I don't need theory to be responsible for me and all the tenants who call me during supper to mediate between their fights. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 10:50 this only so many hours in a day, and people need to take responsibility for themselves. So I hear you. So what did you do after that? That   Stephanie O'Brien ** 10:57 was after that that we started getting into coaching. You I'd been writing novels for pretty much as long as I could write, and I was going with mom. She was becoming a coach. She was studying under Mary Morrissey, so I went with her to learn how to use my fiction writing skills for business. And I started studying under Brendan Norman and then Ted McGrath. And yeah, they it was actually Brenda Norman who introduced me to the world of writing for marketing, and, you know, knowing how to focus on the results that people care about instead of the process that they don't really care about, how to phrase things in terms of the actual experiences that they long for, instead of just giving dry, vague descriptions issues kind of my gateway To the world of marketing.   Michael Hingson ** 11:37 So you you really, essentially came by the whole concept of coaching pretty naturally, by by just the the evolution of of what you did, which is pretty cool. How about your books, though, are, are any of them still available for people to get?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 11:56 Yeah, got four novels on my website. It's Stephanie O'Brien books.com where I host my novels, my short stories, my comics, my art, basically all my creative stuff that isn't coaching. And I've also got one non fiction book, one month program builder up on my website. I have written another one tell people with their marketing message, but that one needs to be updated. I'm planning to update and republish it eventually, but it just hasn't been   Michael Hingson ** 12:20 a top priority. So have you published all of your own books? Or have you worked at all with traditional   Stephanie O'Brien ** 12:26 publishers? It's all been self published. A lot of the traditional publishing route just seems like too much of a pain for them, still expecting me to do Mark most of the marketing. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:35 that's one of the things that has happened, is that publishers tend to not do nearly the marketing that they used to, which is, which is fine for those who really do know how to market, but there is also value in publishers doing a lot more to help than I think probably a lot of them do, but it's the way the world is going that we've we are so steeped in social media and everything now, people think that's the only way to market and it's not.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 13:06 Yeah. Anytime someone says their way is the only way, I immediately get suspicious, like they instantly lose credibility. There are so many different ways to market yourself and grow a business. The important thing is finding a way that works for you. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 13:21 And ultimately, one of the tests of whether it works for you is whether you see results or not. But, but true, it is still there is not just one way to market or sell for that matter,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 13:32 yeah, and if you're not having fun doing it, you know, it's kind of like your podcast, if you're not having fun doing it, especially because, yeah, I found that if I try and commit to a marketing method that I just really hate doing, I will struggle every day to get it done. I'll wind up procrastinating, I won't do it as consistently as I should, and I won't get results. So yeah, when you're choosing your marketing method, you gotta pick something that even if you're not totally ecstatic about it, you at least enjoy it enough that you can do it consistently   Michael Hingson ** 14:00 well, and you may discover later that you really do enjoy it, and that's that's part of it. We don't always necessarily know everything in our own minds the way we ought to. But if we, if we keep looking and we keep trying things and we find something, well, this is working. I'm not a great fan of it, but 10 years from now, you may discover that you learned a lot and you really love it.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 14:23 Yeah, you can always just experiment with it. You'll give it a 90 day shot it, don't. You don't want to just poke at it and then go, Oh, it didn't work instantly. But, you know, give it a be a good old college try. Give it a 90 day genuine try. And if you're really hating it, if it's not getting results, be willing to let it go. If it's getting results, if you're enjoying it, keep on going, working on refining it   Michael Hingson ** 14:42 well. And if you're getting results and you don't enjoy it, then it's probably worth exploring. Why don't you enjoy it? Yeah, that might be very telling also.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 14:53 And if it's something that can be outsourced, then you might want to look at outsourcing. Actually, it depends on the nature of what it is you.   Michael Hingson ** 15:00 Yeah, there is that. But if it's working that that, in of itself, is something right off the bat. Yeah, you   Stephanie O'Brien ** 15:06 don't want to ditch what's working unless you got something better to replace this.   Michael Hingson ** 15:10 That's that is always true. Well, so anyway, so you started studying, and eventually, when did you start your your business, and start coaching, seriously.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 15:24 Um, see, I kind of, I was kind of half probably coaching, partly writing for people, as early as 2013 that's where I got my start. And then just kind of gradually got more and more into coaching, as opposed to writing for people. So of course, even the other process of writing for people still involves a certain amount of coaching, because you have to help them understand, Okay, here's why I'm doing it this way. Here's what we need to communicate. Here's what you need to communicate as a follow up afterward. So there's a certain amount of coaching involved in that too, but it's been the last few years that I've shifted my focus more fully to helping people create their coaching programs, as opposed to, you know, writing marketing materials for the programs they already have. Now,   Michael Hingson ** 16:00 you've written a number of fiction books, right? Tell me about that that I'm still trying to figure out how to write a fiction book   Stephanie O'Brien ** 16:10 for me. Most of the time. It starts with me having a few ideas for scenes or relationships, etc, and then spending the rest of the time trying to justify their existence. Like here are a few really great scenes, and now I need to figure out all the other plot points that lead to this moment the books I've published so far. One of them is called cat girl roommate. It takes the concept of a cat girl, except that instead of being the stereotypical sexy cat girl, she's a cat girl who actually acts like a cat and thinks like a cat. I've owned cats pretty much as long as I can remember, so I just took a whole bunch of their ridiculous shenanigans, and put them into this one cat girl, like, how she'll, you know, the her roommate who's taking care of her, he'll make the same meal for both of them. But she doesn't want her. She wants his. It's the exact same thing, but she's sure that his is better. Such a cat thing to do another it's called a heroic lies. It's, um, kind of a dark twist on the superhero genre, where you've got this villain who keeps on kidnapping people, keeps on trying to fight the hero, except that there seems to be nothing in it for him. It kind of explores that whole Why is the villain putting so much into the fighting the hero instead of making his own life better with his own genius, and kind of puts dark twists on it? Oh, shoot. That's why.   Michael Hingson ** 17:20 Cute. Well, and speaking of cats, see who I have on the back of my desk chair here. Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 17:28 I noticed him moving around. But enough, I got one sitting in a chair right over there.   Michael Hingson ** 17:32 Well, stitch usually isn't in with me, but our house is being cleaned, and so her bed is is under attack, as far as she's concerned. So, so she came in here, which she usually does, and she'll just stay up on the chair. She's fine,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 17:48 yeah? My cat tape laundry day sometimes I finished, you know, laundering the sheets and making the bed. Okay, Brandy, your bed is ready.   Michael Hingson ** 17:56 Yeah? Well, stitch, stitch copes pretty well. And then there's my guide dog, Alamo, who's down on the floor. You can't see him, but he's he's down there and quite content. But stitch seems to be pretty well. She moves around a little bit, but she's planted herself on the back of the chair. And I didn't even think about it when I bought this desk chair to get something wide enough so that she could be on it, but it's worked out really well.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 18:23 And yeah, she seems very cozy and   Michael Hingson ** 18:25 content she is. And for those who don't know, stitch is my, my main coon rescue cat. We've had her now for 10 years, over 10 years. So since the bed is is being made and washed and all that. Then she's in here and she's fine. She'll get bored eventually,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 18:47 Hey, as long as she isn't wandering around screaming, as mine sometimes does.   Michael Hingson ** 18:50 Yeah, yeah, that's the big issue. Well, so you you got into this whole business of of coaching, and how did you start or working with her? How did you decide to start working with other coaches and coaching them in terms of dealing with clients and so on. While   Stephanie O'Brien ** 19:11 I was accompanying my mom to all these the training events, I just started falling in love with coaches and coaching. I saw all these amazing people who are trying to be their best selves, live their best lives, break free from their old patterns and beliefs and ways of being, instead of just being ruled by them their whole lives, and trying to help others to do the same. I just fell in love with it, of the idea of the ripple effect I could make by helping these people. I also became a client of some coaches, and I found it was really it really changed my life in a lot of ways, like helping me to overcome the emotional difficulties from that childhood I described, where people didn't want to be around me, where I couldn't make friends seeing the change it made in myself. I wanted to help more people to experience those transformations, and I wanted to help the amazing coaches who were making such a change to have more success and joy in their own lives, too. Yeah. But you know, as I was interacting with them, I found that I think they were in some ways, kind of too educated for their own good, because they say stuff like, I help you shift your paradigms. And I think I might have mentioned that earlier, but yeah, they they didn't realize that these things that had so much meaning for them wouldn't have the same meaning for someone who didn't have their training. So, you know, they here shift your paradigms, and they can instantly mentally connect it with a result, whereas the lay person here is that they can kind of speculate about the result that they don't immediately look up and say, Yes, that's the exact change I need in my life. But I was kind of the universal translator from Star Trek, helping them translate their coach speak jargon into layperson's terms and into the terms of here's what the people actually want.   Michael Hingson ** 20:42 If you were to define it, what would you say is the definition of a coach? What is a coach?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 20:50 I'd say it's somebody who that works. Doesn't just put a training program for someone to go through on their own pace. It actually works directly with the person. You're helping that person find the answers that they need, helping them to work through their own minds, their own circumstances, their own desires, and helps them ask the right questions is someone who helped them to figure out their own life or some specific aspect of their own life. They don't just give education. They also receive what the client has to say, and help the clients to work through it and understand it.   Michael Hingson ** 21:21 Yeah, I once heard a definition the difference between a coach and a therapist, mainly is that a therapist helps you find the answers, but the therapist knows the answers and can give you the answers, but a coach guide you, because you're the one who really has to discover the answers and figure out what it is that you need to deal with. So the coach will guide you and help you discover, but you have to be the one to do with the coach doesn't necessarily know nor provide the answers.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 21:56 Yeah, and when I'm working with coaches, that's definitely the case where you know they're the subject matter expert on whatever they're trying to teach on. I'm just the person who knows which questions to ask to draw out their expertise and help them to share it in a more effective way and to come up with it. Or you could draw it out of hiding in a more efficient way, instead of spending weeks trying to figure out what to say. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 22:19 So in general, what I you've talked about a little bit, but what are some of the challenges that you first saw in dealing with coaches when you first started?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 22:29 Well, there was the one I mentioned, where they didn't really know how to explain their services in a way that resonated with people. You know, they talked about the process they took them through, or the amount of content they were going to give them, or the amount of time they were going to spend with the person. Thing is, you're asking for a bunch of a person's time. That's not a selling point. That's a chore. You're you're going to spend five hours of your weekend on this. That's an anti selling point by helping if they one of those challenges then was, you know, not knowing what it is that their clients really want and addressing that. Another is time. Is a huge issue, I think, in the business world in general. So a lot of people struggle to find the time to create their coaching programs, or what time they have they don't use it officially, because they don't have a system for quickly and easily drawing out all that content and organizing it. Another is money. A lot of coaches are having trouble finding the right clients, connecting with them, conveying the value of their products and services to them, so that they actually go get those clients and get the money. So those I find, are three of the big challenges that coaches run into.   Michael Hingson ** 23:31 Yeah, I can say, having observed a lot about it, that a lot of people seriously undervalue or don't recognize the value that they bring, and so as a result, when they're creating courses or coaching or whatever, they undersell and don't charge what they're necessarily really worth. And there are reasons to avoid that and really charge what you're worth, but you also have to learn how to do that and learn how to figure that out. But people do tend to sell themselves short way too often.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 24:13 Yeah, when you're really immersed in your own expertise, can be so easy to start feeling like what you know is common knowledge, when in reality, it's stuff that a lot of people don't know. And even if they know some of the surface stuff, they don't know the same kind of depth as they don't know it in the same kind of depth as you do. Now, I've actually got exercises I take my clients through so they can kind of remind themselves of the depth of their own expertise and how much they know that their clients don't know. I'd be happy to share that if you want. Sure. Yeah. And for those of you who are listening, I hope you've got something to write this down and record this so I'm going to walk you through this exercise. Not only does it help you to really boost your confidence in your own expertise, it'll also help you come up with a ton of content for your coaching programs, your training programs, your content marketing, podcasts, newsletters, social media, posts. So, so yeah, definitely be ready to take notes on this. So your first step is to figure out what are the things that you can help people with. You know, just write it down in broad categories. Maybe you could say, I help them with marketing, with JVs, with getting referrals. So you put those broad categories, kind of break them down by the results. What are the results that you can help people get then pick one of those results. I like to use the example of a relationship coach who helps a single men to meet and marry the woman of their dreams. So the result is that this person has a loving marriage with the woman of his dreams, but right now he's single and lonely and doesn't know how to approach women. So then for step two, what you do is you'd write down the steps that you take your clients through, preferably in chronological order. I know not everyone can do chronological order, because some processes just don't happen in a specific timeline or a specific sequence, but if you can do it in chronological order, it's best to do so. So the steps that you'd write down say you're this coach you could write down, helping him to figure out what kind of woman he wants to meet, helping him to figure out where these types of women might hang out, how to approach her, how to have a conversation, how to get a first date, how to see if, how to conduct himself on that first date, and see if she's the kind of person he wants to keep dating. How to get a second date, if he wants and so forth. So once you've written down all these steps in chronological order, pick one of those steps and break it down further, this is where you really start to see the depth of the expertise that you have. So step one was figure out what kind of woman you want to meet. So you could ask questions like, what kinds of experiences do you want to have with your partner, and what kind of person would want to have those experiences with you? What kind of experiences do you not want to have, and what kind of person would give you those bad experiences? What kind of positive experiences have you had in the past that you want more of you if you need help to figure out what you want? Does Do you want a partner who wants to be a homemaker or a career woman or a business owner? Do you want a partner who wants to have kids with you, or who I'd rather stay childless? Does give them really specific questions that they can ask themselves to better understand you know what they wanted to better understand how they can go about this. And if you want to give them instructions for how to do something, make those instructions so specific that if an alien never even heard of your subject of expertise before were to read the instructions, the alien would know exactly how to do it. You don't feel like those software developers who go, okay, just click on this tab, this tab and this tab, okay, but how do I get to that tab in the first place? Don't assume that your clients know how to do the first few steps. Some of them will some of them won't. You don't want to leave that second category behind. And you can also look at what are the best practices they can use while doing this. What are some common mistakes? What are some examples you can give them of people actually doing this. And by doing going through this exercise, you can really get a clear view of just how much depth and detail you know about every single step in this entire process. And when you really break it down, every single step that goes into the process has so much nuance, so much detail, so many things that you could teach them, so many nuggets of wisdom you probably have that you might have even forgotten since it's become so second nature. I encourage you to do that exercise and remind yourself what an expert you are and come up with a huge amount of content at the same time.   Michael Hingson ** 28:22 Right? And then what happens? So   Stephanie O'Brien ** 28:27 what happens next? Of course, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You know, if you once you've done this exercise, if you're trying to create a coaching program, you still need to figure out how you're going to deliver it, whether it's in group coaching calls one on one, a hybrid, or if you want to make a training program as opposed to a coaching program, you need to figure out how to price it, how what kind of posting software you want to use to deliver it. Those are some of the steps that come after. And of course, you need to figure out how to sell it, how to market it in a way that works for you   Michael Hingson ** 28:59 well. So coaches are human, like, like everyone else, at least, that's, that's the theory. And so you observed coaches having challenges. You've observed people not necessarily dealing with discovering the things that they should discover in order to be able to coach or to to progress. How do you find or how do they overcome those challenges? What do you do to help them overcome those challenges?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 29:31 It kind of depends what the situation is that's preventing them from progressing. So yeah, my first step would be, of course, to talk with them and figure out, Okay, what's stopping you from progressing? Is it that you feel you don't know enough to create a coaching program? In that case, let's see how we can draw out more information from you. Is it that you have too much information and you don't know which information to put in each offer because you don't want to try and shove it all in the same offer? It's just going to get cluttered, and people will feel it ripped off if they're paying for information they don't need. That might help them figure out if they. How many offers Do you want to make? What information goes into each offer if they're having trouble with time in my program, creation Made Easy. Course, the first thing I do with people is actually look at their schedule and figure out, okay, what are your priorities? What needs to be in your schedule, what can be paired out? Where can we make time to actually create your coaching program? So those are some examples of how I help people with some common challenges.   Michael Hingson ** 30:24 Do you find a lot of resistance people don't want to, or think they don't want to overcome the challenges because they don't really exist? Do you see a lot of that kind of challenge and that people just resist because they're really not thinking in as I put it, being introspective.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 30:44 I'd say one of the biggest challenges I find people run into that stops them from working with me is they want to do it on their own. And some people can do it on their own, but others wind up working on it for weeks on end. You say, Oh yeah, I'm working on figuring out this content. Then weeks later, I follow up, hey, how are you doing? I'm still working on it. We could have had it done in 60 to 90 minutes. Here, just one call with me, 60 to 90 minutes, and that could have been done. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 31:10 well, that's your expertise that brings that. And the result is that, again, people aren't thinking it through, and so the result is that they they continue to go in circles and not necessarily move to where they ought to be as quickly as they should. But at the same time, there's only so much you can do, because you can't force people to listen.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 31:39 Yeah, all I can do is, as with any business owner, work on getting better and better at communicating my value and helping people see why they're better off working with me.   Michael Hingson ** 31:47 Well, that's an interesting point. It's as much a learning experience for you, isn't it?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 31:55 Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you're finding that people aren't really responding here to your messaging, you need to look at your messaging or the way you're presenting it, and see, okay, Where can this be improved, and even if your messaging has been working, you know, things can shift to trends can shift. People can get overloaded on a certain amount of certain type of messaging. So you need to be prepared to adapt and to listen to people and see how their needs and their preferences are evolving.   Michael Hingson ** 32:19 Yeah, and I you, you bring up a really good point that I like a lot, and that is that things may be working. You may be doing something well, the question is, can you do it better? And I think that's a question that we should always be asking ourselves, can I even improve what I'm doing that takes humility to be able to ask that question. But it is still true. It's something that we should do, and that is really look at by doing this the best way I can. Can I improve it? And of course, that is something that you as a coach brings to it as well, because sometimes, if they consult with you, they can find out that you may approve of what they're doing, you may like what they're doing, but you can come up with other solutions that are even better. I love the whole idea of collaboration, and we don't. We don't see nearly as much of it as we should, and I think way too often, as you point out, people just want to do things on their own, but none of us are really an island.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 33:27 Yeah, I've had lots of mentors who helped me to get where I am, and I'm still learning from other people as I go, it   Michael Hingson ** 33:35 gets to be a real challenge. And again, you can't force people to do things that never is going to work. So you can't necessarily do that. And   Stephanie O'Brien ** 33:45 I hate that sales tactic where you try and force or bully someone into it, go run to the bathroom room and buy my stuff, or else you're going to be a failure in business forever. I am so over that, and if someone tries to pressure me into it, that tells me that they care more about their agenda than they care about me, and then they don't respect my boundaries in that point, their odds of making a sale pretty much hit the floor and start digging.   Michael Hingson ** 34:06 Yeah, you know, I learned a long time ago that people who really sell and do it well recognize that what they truly are are educators or counselors. You don't force people to do things. You need to really look at what a person needs and wants, and if you've got something to help them, then you you bring that into the conversation, but you don't, and you shouldn't force people. I've had so many situations where I sold a product and the product that I well, I should say I wanted to sell a product, but my product wouldn't necessarily do what the customer really needed. There were issues, whatever they are. So what am I to do? I could try to just continue to push our product on them, but I know that in the end, that's going to backfire. It's. Not going to work, people are then going to hate me or resent me, and they're never going to want to do business with me. So it's important to not push something that doesn't work. But I also took it a step further, more than once, which is to say, here's what will work, even though my company doesn't happen to have it, and when you really develop that level of trust by being honest with someone and pointing out this is what really works in the long run, that's going to earn you a whole lot more than you would have ever gotten any other way.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 35:34 Absolutely, it can make you more of a go to authority. I mean, people need something. They can come to you, even if it's not what you offer, you may not be the provider, but you know the provider, and it helps to foster good relationships with other business owners. If you have people that you know is trust and can refer to, I recently sought out a grant a person who's an expert in Grant. I've noticed her on a networking event, and I'm not really looking for a grant myself. Don't have much interest in grants at the moment, but I've had a few people for some reason, approach me and ask me, Hey, can you help me get a grant? No, not remotely. And you know, the first few times I had nobody I could even refer to, I tried to find some people who I could refer to, but couldn't really find anyone appropriate. So I finally find this one just, Oh, thank goodness you actually help people to find grants. Like these people wanted me to help them find a grant. Never mind, apply for it. Find one in first place, and I can't do that like I could learn, but I don't want to. But then here's this person who specifically teaches people how to do it, though, even though it wasn't my expertise or even something I needed, I sought her out just so I'd have that ability to refer people next time.   Michael Hingson ** 36:36 Well, that's pretty important to be able to do. I in my case, I'm thinking of a particular incident where we, I and a sales guy, one of my sales people, who had set up an appointment to go see a customer, and they wanted his manager to come, which was me, and we went. And I'm unusual anyway. I mean, how often do you see a blind sales guy coming in, holding a laptop projector and doing other things like that. And I actually did the presentation, and I also happened to be very technical, and so I asked a lot of questions, and learned that our product wasn't going to do what these people needed. But by the time we were done with the whole presentation, I said, and you can probably see our product won't do what you need, and here's why. But then I did, and that's the first time I really did it. I took the next step and said, but here's a company, and here's what product really will do exactly what you need, and here's why. The result of that was that two weeks later, we got a call from the same company saying we really took what you said to heart, and now we have another project. And because of everything you taught us, we know that what you have to offer is exactly what we need. Just tell us what it's going to cost, and we will order it today. We're not even going to put it on for bid, and that's what trust is all about,   37:59 absolutely,   Michael Hingson ** 38:01 and it's, and it's so exciting, but it's, it's unfortunate that all too often, people don't really look at the whole value of developing that trusting relationship, and that's got to be a volitional part of whatever you do in coaching, or anything that we do in business, or anything in our lives?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 38:21 Yeah, I've had too many people try and pitch me without first, building that trusted. And even if it's a free thing, like a free webinar, there's no such thing as free, yeah, even a free webinar still costs time that I won't get back. So it's like and see when COVID just comes crashing into my inbox. Pitch first that tells me they care a lot more about their agenda than they do about me, especially if it's something that's clearly in applicable, like, No, I am not going to join your group for single mothers. I've never had a kid. I mean, granted, I have this cat, and she is kind of a toddler, but I've never had the kind of kids you teach people to work with.   Michael Hingson ** 38:54 Yeah? So you've, you've never had kids yet.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 38:58 I'm not really planning to have already got cats.   Michael Hingson ** 39:00 Yeah? Have you gotten married? No, so you're not even in that but you've got cats. Well, that's fine. Now, when my when my wife and I got married, we decided that we were going to have kids. She was in a wheelchair her whole life, and she said that she was concerned it would have too much of a bad effect on our body. And what we decided to do, in addition to having dogs and cats, was to welcome nieces and nephews into the house, because we could kick them out at the end of the day, and that worked out   Stephanie O'Brien ** 39:31 really well, yeah, just hop them up on sugar and send them back. Yeah, that's what my grandparents did,   Michael Hingson ** 39:37 yeah. Well, worked for them, right? Yep, you seem to be surviving as a result. Well, I didn't die. Yeah, you're still you're still coaching. So that's pretty cool. Well, let me ask you this, if I can, if someone is thinking about being a coach or selling their expertise, how do they determine. Or how can you help them determine whether they're really qualified? Or how can they decide that they're qualified?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 40:07 I'd say the big thing is just to ask yourself, can I consistently get people results in this area? Now, obviously that depends on the other person actually doing the work to get the results. But do you know how people can get results in a specific area in a repeatable, reliable way. It could be anything from your relationships, improving your relationships, improving your health, improving your business, and it doesn't even have to be the whole journey. As long as you can help people take one significant step, you can help improve their lives, like even if you can't help a person go from single to married, if you can, say, Help married couples to stop having a specific type of argument. And for that matter, the more specific the problem you solve, the more people who have that problem. I want to see, oh, that's exactly what I need you. I don't need this generic relationship advice. I need relationship advice. I want this thing in particular, like, think about when you're, say, having a technical issue, and you want to say, let's say last night, I was looking for how to widen the navigation bar in a WordPress site, and I see all these results for you, how to improve your navigation bar, how to make a navigation bar, how to change a navigation bar. No, I just want it wider. The only result I'm interested in clicking on is how to make it wider. It's the same thing with your customers. You know, the more specific the result you can help them to get, the more the people looking for it are going to say that's exactly what I need. So don't assume that you're disqualified if you can't help them with their entire journey. Just focus on what is one big result that I can help people get. If you know how to get that, help them get that result, then you can help them to do that,   Michael Hingson ** 41:42 and it might also be that you do what you can do. But again, like you said about the lady who you've met who does grants, you can also get people in touch with other people who may be able to augment the successes or the results that you've already achieved, who may be able to do it better than you? So that you create essentially a teaming approach, even though each of you are working individually to help this individual? Yeah,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 42:10 absolutely. And you can do it kind of sequentially or concurrently. You could have someone be offer a guest module in your coaching course, if you say, you help people with nine steps out of 10, but it's one step in the middle. Isn't your expertise that you can have a guest expert come in and present in your course. Or if you help them with one step of the journey, but not the subsequent step, once they're done working with you, you can refer them to somebody else. Or if they're not ready to work with you, let's say you help people get on stages and present, but they that only really works and can be monetized if the person has something worth selling to sell. So if you meet someone who wants to get on stages but has nothing worth selling, though, you could refer them back to me, and I could get them ready for your services,   Michael Hingson ** 42:52 right? It's a process. And again, a lot of people don't think they're they're capable of selling. They they don't have the self worth, or don't think they have the self worth. And even the whole concept of this podcast, as I've said to many people, one of the main reasons that I love doing this is I get to show our audience members that they're more unstoppable than unstoppable than they think they are. And whenever I hear someone say, I learned this from this particular podcast, and it really showed me how I can be better than I thought I was. That doesn't get better than that. Oh yeah. And even   Stephanie O'Brien ** 43:35 if you're just starting out, just starting out, can actually be kind of a superpower, as I was mentioning earlier in this interview, people can get so ingrained in their own expertise, it can become so second nature. They forget what other people don't know, which can result in overly broad or vague explanations. Like I've seen some mindset coaches saying stuff like, notice what stories you're telling about the telling yourself about this situation, or notice what limiting beliefs you have well, if not, unless you're trained for that, you're not going to notice what the story or what's a limiting belief versus what's just a fact. You don't know how to tell the difference. So that's an example of how a coach who's really in their own expertise can totally forget that other people don't know how to do what they do. For someone who's just starting out and who remembers the very vividly what it's like not to know these things. It's less likely to make that mistake, more likely to be able to put themselves in the client's shoes, understand what the client does and does not know, and explain it in ways that a person who's new to this can understand. I thought to say a more seasoned coach can't do that, but there is that risk that they'll forget. So if you're just starting out, it can be just easier to relate to people who are also starting out and who are just a step behind you.   Michael Hingson ** 44:44 How do you teach people who are clearly experts in what they do, but who have forgotten that they weren't always experts in the people they're dealing with aren't experts? How do you teach them to go back and recognize. Recognize that and remember those things that they've clearly forgotten that would make them so much better, because they could then relate better to other people,   Stephanie O'Brien ** 45:08 mostly by asking questions. Do I kind of come at it from the standpoint as if I was their client? Okay, you just told me to do this, but how exactly do I do it? What are the exact steps I need to take, or what questions can you ask me to help me to figure this out. Now I basically act like I was there. We don't necessarily role play, but I do ask questions as if I was their client and didn't know how to do this thing.   Michael Hingson ** 45:30 Yeah. What do you do to help the person who's say, fairly new to coaching and doesn't think that they're good enough? And how do you teach them to recognize that really maybe they are or or maybe they'll discover that they're really not. But how do you how do you deal with that?   Stephanie O'Brien ** 45:50 Um, I take one of the things I do is I take them through that exercise I did earlier with you. Write out the list of steps you take. Break it down into sub steps. I often remind them how being new can be a superpower. I also invite them to look at the results they've gotten for themselves and other people in the past. Have you healed this issue in yourself? Have you helped yourself to lose weight? Have you helped yourself to raise your kids better? Have you helped yourself to improve your health? Or have you helped other people? Is this something that other people come to you for advice, and have those other people gotten results from working with you. Now, if you've never really gotten results for yourself or for other people, then you might want to make sure that you're able to actually get those results before try to teach people, because if you don't know how to get the result, then you're really not qualified to coach but if you can get the result, then you know how you got the result and can replicate that process with other people, then you are ready to coach people. You are ready to help them to do what you know how to do. One of   Michael Hingson ** 46:46 the things that I have always done when I hire new sales people, or even today, when I'm talking to people who are fairly new and something that they've decided to explore, take at least a year and be a student. You should always be a student, but especially for the first year, play the student card. Don't hesitate to ask questions. Don't hesitate even to ask your customer questions, because the more you ask, the more you'll learn. Because mostly people really want you to succeed, and they want to succeed, and you're bringing something to the party, you may need to figure out what it is, but if you start by being a student, then you're really at least half the way there to figuring it all out.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 47:35 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, having a podcast can be good for that. You can interview people and get there to share all this free information, and they get exposure. You get free information, you get content to share with your audience. It's a great way to open doors.   Michael Hingson ** 47:49 Well, it's true, and you know, in the it works both ways, because hopefully, for example, when I ask questions or we're talking about different subjects, hopefully you get something out of it too, and that's, that's what makes it really fair,   Speaker 1 ** 48:05 that's important to have win wins, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 48:08 well, so clearly, you know, we're dealing with a lot of different kinds of environments, and you're dealing With a lot of people. What about the person who doesn't think they have the expertise and so they're reluctant to charge more or charge what they should be charging? I think I probably know the answer to this, but I'm going to, you know, ask anyway, what do you how do you help those people recognize, let's assume, that they do have the expertise to expertise, but they don't think they do.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 48:44 One thing I can help them to do is look at the results they get and see just how valuable it is for their clients. So for example, let's say you help somebody to sleep better at night and have more energy. Obviously, there are health benefits for that. Here, you are less likely to have diseases. You're less likely to get into a car crash because you were groggy. You're probably going to have a better immune system the breakdown. I could break it down by the various categories of life. What are the benefits in their health, of course, in their relationships, if they have more energy, if they're less cranky, if they're in a better mood, they'll be more pleasant to be around people who want to be around them more they'll probably have better relationships with their kid, their friends, their spouse, their boss, their clients, their coworkers, and understand relationships that's healthy. And also look at time. How much time are they wasting on doing things slow, hard way because they're groggy and brain foggy and unable to work well? Yeah, I encourage you to look at every different area of your life that it the client's problem is affecting and that would be affected positively by the solution you give. I think this will help remind you just how valuable your solution really is. And if you're not completely sure that you can help people to get results, you know, look at the results you've gotten for yourself. Look at the results you've gotten for others. If you. Do have a good track record of getting results, then you know that's the site that you already have proof that you can if you don't have a history of getting results, then you need to work on developing your skill set learning systems that can get results consistently, or look at some other area of your life where you've already gotten results. But yeah, the important thing is that you need to be able to get results. And of course, you do have to also be realistic about okay, you can teach people how to get these results. You can also do things with them to help maximize the chances that they actually do the things you're teaching them and thus get results. But you do have to recognize that some people are going to choose not to do the things, and they will therefore not get the results. So as long as you know that if your system is followed and will get results, you've done your part, the rest is also on them.   Michael Hingson ** 50:47 Yeah, and a lot of times they may not get results, and who knows specifically why, but it's really important that they understand why they're not getting results. And maybe it is only, and I don't want to mitigate it, but it's only they don't have the confidence to ask, or they don't have the confidence to to reach out to help somebody get the results, which is also part of what they need to work on.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 51:14 Yeah, one thing coach that I like did, instead of just asking, do you hold He did ask, Do you have any questions? But if the people on he was coaching with didn't in his group called, didn't have any questions, he'd ask them to give an update. You know, what were you working on this week? What results were you trying to get? What results did you get? And this often resulted in him finding things to coach on that the person hadn't thought to ask. So, yeah, it's important to check in with your clients to see what kind of results they're getting, what kind of results they're not getting, and if they're not getting results, then explore that with them. You know, why are you not getting results? What did you do the action steps? Okay, if so, did you do them right? Did you do them wrong? If they didn't do the action steps, why not? And how can we adjust your schedule so that you actually can fit them in? What kind of resistance is there against doing these action steps, and how can we clear that resistance? That's really important to stay in touch with your clients and to get consistent updates on what milestones they are or are not hitting and why they are not are not hitting them, and be be prepared to address those underlying issues. Because often, while you're working on doing something, questions will come up that you didn't think you had earlier. You you discover nuances to it that you didn't know about, or you'll meet mental resistance that you didn't realize you were going to have.   Michael Hingson ** 52:29 Part of it, though, is also the art of asking questions and the art of asking the right questions. I, for example, really don't like to ask yes or no questions, closed ended questions, if you will, because you don't learn much that way. And so that was also one of the things that I did with the customer we mentioned earlier. I'll always ask open ended questions, because I really want to get not only the information that they they have that I feel is important for me to have, but I also get to know them a lot better. When I ask open ended questions and get them to really give me a detailed response, I'll learn a lot about them as well, and I think that's extremely important.   53:12 Now that makes total sense,   Michael Hingson ** 53:15 yeah, because it's it's so important to be able to ask tell me more about this. Or what is it that you find doesn't really work here? Or why do you like that? And really get questions that will make people think that also helps keep me alert when I when I keep thinking of questions. So it works both ways.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 53:43 Yeah, I'd say the ability to ask the right questions is one of the most important things for a coach.   Michael Hingson ** 53:47 Yeah, and if you don't necessarily know the right question, again, asking some open ended questions, and sometimes you might even want to say, what else is there that you want to tell me about this, or tell me more about this, so that you get people to offer information? And I've been in situations where I wasn't sure what to ask, but I can always ask something that will get people to offer more, that will help me think about, oh, I need to ask about this. Yeah.   Stephanie O'Brien ** 54:18 And you could kind of write a list of the pieces of information that you need to know about your clients you know, like, say, going back to that relationship coach, example, the piece of things that you need to know in order to help someone