Podcasts about Rutgers University

Guest: Ben Burgis is a philosophy professor at Rutgers University, a columnist for Jacobin magazine, the host of the YouTube show and podcast Give Them An Argument, and the author of several books, most recently Christopher Hitchens: What He Got Right, How He Went Wrong, and Why He Still Matters.   Photo credit: Wikimedia The post The Killing of Charlie Kirk and the Crackdown on the Left appeared first on KPFA.

We continue Poop Week by Zoetis Equine with Carey A. Williams, Ph.D., Equine Extension Specialist/Professor at Rutgers University, who chats with us about all things pasture and manure management. How many horses is too many for your farm? Then Dr. Roddy answers the most requested topic for poop week, Fecal Water Syndrome. Plus, some weird news to end the show. Listen in…HORSES IN THE MORNING Episode 3777 – Show Notes and Links:Hosts: Jamie Jennings of Flyover Farm and Glenn the GeekPic Credit: NAGuest: Carey A. Williams, Ph.D., Equine Extension Specialist/Professor, Interim Director, Rutgers Equine Science CenterGuest: Dr. Erin Roddy with Poseidon Animal Health Additional support for this podcast provided by: Daily Dose Equine, Equine Network and Listeners Like YouPoop Week Sponsor: Sponsor: Zoetis EquineLearn more about the “Buy Less Dewormer” CampaignVisit the deworming resources webpageDownload this deworming guide, deworming brochure,and deworming poster Download a dewormer comparison chartView the American Association of Equine Practitioners

We continue Poop Week by Zoetis Equine with Carey A. Williams, Ph.D., Equine Extension Specialist/Professor at Rutgers University, who chats with us about all things pasture and manure management. How many horses is too many for your farm? Then Dr. Roddy answers the most requested topic for poop week, Fecal Water Syndrome. Plus, some weird news to end the show. Listen in…HORSES IN THE MORNING Episode 3777 – Show Notes and Links:Hosts: Jamie Jennings of Flyover Farm and Glenn the GeekPic Credit: NAGuest: Carey A. Williams, Ph.D., Equine Extension Specialist/Professor, Interim Director, Rutgers Equine Science CenterGuest: Dr. Erin Roddy with Poseidon Animal Health Additional support for this podcast provided by: Daily Dose Equine, Equine Network and Listeners Like YouPoop Week Sponsor: Sponsor: Zoetis EquineLearn more about the “Buy Less Dewormer” CampaignVisit the deworming resources webpageDownload this deworming guide, deworming brochure,and deworming poster Download a dewormer comparison chartView the American Association of Equine Practitioners

 On this week's episode of the ATS Breathe Easy podcast, host Amy Attaway, MD, of the Cleveland Clinic, talks with Reynold Panettieri, MD, from Rutgers University on the BATURA trial, an at-home trial for those with moderate-to-severe asthma which ended early due to its highly successful results. Asthma patient Heather also talks about how the medication tested in the study, known as AIRSUPRA, has helped her manage her asthma better than ever before. The BATURA Trial: https://www.nejm.org/doi/abs/10.1056/NEJMoa2504544 

Meet Dr. Tamir Qadree who grew up one of 11 children in a 2-bedroom apartment in Chicago. When I asked him how 11 children and two parents lived in an apartment with only 2 bedrooms his response was that it is all about family. We all made it worked, and we all learned to love each other. Tamir heard about California before high school and wanted to move to that state. A brother, 8 years older than Tamir, was recently married and agreed to take Tamir to California since this brother and his new wife were moving there. Tamir always had a “servant attitude” toward others. He felt that he could learn to help others and, after attending some community college courses he decided to go another route from school. Tamir always felt he was selling and in sales. He tells us about that and points out that we all sell and receive results from others who sell in whatever we do. Dr. Qadree eventually discovered metaphysics which is about self-help and learning to adopt a mindset of improvement through self-analysis. We discuss this in detail as you will hear. Tamir offers many good life pointers and lessons we all can adopt. This episode is pack with useful ideas that we all can use to better our lives. About the Guest: ‘The Dean of Dynamic Results' “The Dean of Dynamic Results” has a Double Doctorate in the field of Metaphysical Philosophy, specializing in personal development coaching, mentoring, mind, and mystical research. The Powers of the Mind, Influence and Attraction has captured the minds and imagination of the world over the past 35 years. Dr. Tamir Qadree is a leader in the field of this study, and says that, “WE Can All Achieve Dynamic Results”! Tamir is the author of several books, audio programs. He conducts workshops, 2 day retreats and does one on one, exclusive coaching. His clientele has ranged from business developers in the fields of Network Marketing, Direct Sales, Real Estate, Legal, the Medical Professions, and Self-Help enthusiastic individuals, both nationally and internationally. Dr. Tamir Qadree, (Also known as TQ) carefully guides his audience and clients through the vast field of sales psychology, effective closing skills, prospecting mastery and all of the necessary communication skills needed in today's world. He also teaches and demonstrates the connection between ‘The Results the Reader or Listener Gets,' and his or her ‘Emotional States and Habits.' Tamir teaches his students how to ‘Feel' rather than to simply ‘Reason' everything through. He teaches that, feeling is more about ‘Intuition' while reason is often about ‘Ego' and knowledge gleaned from books on one level; but when they are both combined (Feeling and Reason) you have your road map to success and contentment. Tamir Qadree, writes with clarity, precision, and direct language, that is easy to read, simple to follow and are full of great content. His podcast, (Dean-Cast) are usually not planned. They flow from inspiration and direct knowledge from experience. What you read and listen to in his array of programs are genuine, authentic, and straight from ‘The Dean of Dynamic Results himself.' The information Tamir delivers, whether from audio book, eBook, audio programs or Dean-Cast, or Live Events, are carefully select and digested to bring to the reader, the listener, the audience, the best information. Often there are differences of opinion in matters of, ‘what to eat,' or ‘how to lose weight' or ‘scientific and technology.' These are all necessary to grow, to develop and to keep the mind moving and expanding. Welcome To The World of The Dean! Ways to connect with Dr.Tamir: New Podcast, "Dynamic Results On Fire!' Every Monday! https://tamirqadree.com https://learn.tamirqadree.com Https://coach.thedeanofdynamicresults.com dynamicyou@gmail.com (17) Dr. Tamir Qadree | LinkedIn (20+) Facebook Dr Tamir Qadree (@theresultscoach1) | TikTok (381) The 'Results' Coach - YouTube https://www.Instagram.com Ebooks and an audio program: Clear Vision – Mastermind Mastery Click and Grow Rich – Mastermind Mastery Super Potential – Mastermind Mastery The Esteem Success Factor – Mastermind Mastery About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I've told you all in the past about a program that I attend every so often called Podapalooza. And on the 19th, excuse me, the 18th of June, we had number 16 in the patapalooza series. And one of the people I got a chance to speak with was Dr Tamir Qadree. And Tamir is is our guest today. He calls himself or I want to find out if he calls himself that, or somebody else calls him that, the Dean of dynamic results. I want to hear more about that, certainly, but we're really glad that he's here. He has been involved in dealing with metaphysical philosophy. He's a coach. He does a lot of things that I think are very relevant to what we hear from a lot of people on this podcast. So I'm really looking forward to having a chance to chat with you. So Tamir, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 02:25 I'm glad to be here. Thank you very much for inviting me.   Michael Hingson ** 02:28 Well, we appreciate you coming and spending the time. We met Wednesday the 18th of June, and here it is the 24th and we're chatting. So that   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 02:37 works. That works out for me well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:41 so tell us a little bit about the early Tamir growing up.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 02:46 The early Tamir growing up, sure, interesting story that's always fun, because I grew up in Chicago on the west side, and during time I grew up, I grew up in in the 70s, that was coming out of the turbulent 60s of the youngster, then coming out of that, coming out of the the other protests and the civil rights movement and all that stuff. So I grew up in the 70s. Basically, life to me was a lot of it was. I had a lot of happy times in my life, although we had so called very little. My mom had a home with a partner with 13 children, 13 people at all times, two bedrooms. I don't know how she made that work, but she did. We had, we stayed cleaned the house. My like bleach. We smell like bleach. We smell like pine. Saw and so I got my my my cleanliness from that. I don't know how she did it. And we all ate, okay. And what I got from my childhood, me, my brother, we we've always been innovative. We've always been results driven, going out, knocking on doors. Before there was a Door Dash, we were knocking on doors, taking buying people's groceries, going to store for them. We're cutting their yards and doing odd things to earn money. So I've always been go get a results. Driven guy, not afraid to ask and looking to get the results, not just for the money, but the money was good to have. But I've always been like that. That's in a nutshell. Where I've always been,   Michael Hingson ** 04:18 well, how did you all sleep? 13 people in the apartment?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 04:22 Well, it was my mom, my dad, before they separated, and it was 11, and then plus cousins, so that's 14. Hey, you know, buddy Michael, you make it work? Yeah, people say how it's not how. I think why is a better question. Because you're a family and you can make it work. It can work easier than people think it can, because we have love and togetherness and closeness, and you have two parents that are on top of their game is doing the best they can do. It works. That's a very good question. And you're the first person to have asked me, how did that work? You're the first person.   Michael Hingson ** 04:56 Well, I can imagine that there are ways to make things work. Um. Um, as you said, you do have to be innovative, and you all have to learn that it's important to get along, and that's what family is really all about,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 05:09 that that's true and that we did not we had to get along. We live in a house with that many children, five boys and six girls, no six boys and five girls. I reversed it. You have to learn to get along. You have to learn to respect the different genders. You have to learn respect authority. You have to learn to share how to care for other people. Interesting about that, my mom would always bring people in from the street. She'd find people less privileged than us, believe it or not, let's we'll have one bathroom, by the way, less privileged. She would buy them clothes and feed them, and we abuse that person any kind of way we get it, where we get it? Okay, so I got that from also that's and that that leads me into how I am now.   Michael Hingson ** 05:53 Well, we'll get there. So you went to school in Chicago, and how long did you live   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 05:58 there? Why would the school I started high school in California? Okay? So California, okay? My freshman year in Cali. Yeah, California.   Michael Hingson ** 06:07 So what caused you guys to move out to California?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 06:10 Well, my aunt came out maybe 20 years before. Then my sister came out. Two years after that, my sister came back bragging about California. Everybody in those days, everybody thought California the land of milk and honey, back in the Midwest and back east California, Judas, land of milk and honey. It really is. People will go California represented freedom to us, the promised land. It really did sort of a promised land thing. And I was just determined to get to California. My story, if I can tell you about me getting to California, we're in the household. I was 14. My sister had came and promised she'd take me with her. And I said, Okay, I'll go. I was her favorite, she promised. So I told everybody on the block, I'm going to California. 13 going on, 14 year old kid, and have people excited. He's going to California. Some were jealous, and I was telling people I would knock on their door and go and go pick up groceries for them and cut yards. And after the summer passed, my sister couldn't get me any people started laughing at me, Jeremy behind my back. He's not going to California. And some of my siblings were, of course, probably a little jealous, little envious. He's not going some people, yeah, you're not going anywhere. You stay down here with us, in this area, with us. And so I said, No, I'm going to California. And I watched this story the weekend before going to high school. My mother said she lied to you. She's not going to get you. She lied to you. You can give it up. My cousin said she lied to you. I said, No, I'm going to California. I had two pair of pants, one pair of shoes, two pair underwear and two shirts. That's all I had. I was going to go to school. Well, that Friday came, I said, I'm going to California that Friday. This is all summer. I've been saying that people started doubting me. My brother walked in the door. My older brother, eight years old, to me, walked in the door about an hour later and said, I just got married, me and my wife decided to go to California. Monday. You can come with us. That's why I got to California.   Michael Hingson ** 07:52 There you go. Well, and again, it's really cool that family sticks together somehow, Too bad your sister misled you, but you you made it work.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 08:05 Well, I don't think she so much misled me. She couldn't make it work. She wanted to do it. She couldn't find the finance, little time or the effort. She couldn't make it work. She didn't make it work. You know, she obviously lied to me. That's what they thought. But no, I don't think I never thought that.   Michael Hingson ** 08:19 Yeah, well, I understand. Well, at least you made it and you got to California. And so what did you find when you got out here?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 08:27 I found it to be what I thought it's going to be okay. I saw I was driving, we're driving. And came over the mountains. We saw the little the little lights on the freeway, the little on the road, the little reflectors. We're like, wow, there's diamonds in the streets of that night, right? With those reflected, we never seen nothing like that before. Wow. They're diamonds in the street. And then we look around like at San Jose, and I would see the lights up in the air. It was the mountains, with people living in the mountains, yeah, with the lights, we I thought, Oh, my God, this is heaven. I didn't know. Yeah, please know those houses the lights. So anyway, it was what I thought was going to be. Here's the land of milk and honey.   Michael Hingson ** 09:05 For me, sure. I'm not sure what caused my parents to want to move to California. We moved in 1955 right? In fact, I mentioned earlier, we did patapalooza on the 18th of June, and today is the 24th that is the day we're recording this. So you'll see when this actually comes out. But June, 24 1955 was the day we arrived in California from Chicago. And I don't know what caused my father to want to sell his part in the television repair business that he and my uncle owned and wanted to get a job in California, whether they thought it was the land of milk and honey or what I've never, never did learn. But nevertheless, we moved out to California, and I think there was a lot to be said for they wanted to be out here. They felt that there were a lot of opportunity. And probably they wanted to get out of the city, but we did. So I have now been out here, other than living in other places as an adult. Part of the time I've lived out here 70 years. 70 years. Well, we came out in 1955 we got here on June 24 1955 so it's pretty cool. But anyway,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 10:25 I wasn't born, but you beat me. Well, there you go.   Michael Hingson ** 10:28 Well, I think there's a lot to be said for California. It's, you know, I can make a lot of places work. I've lived in New Jersey, I've lived in Boston. I've lived in other places in Iowa for a little while and so on. And so I know there are places that are a lot colder than California, and where I even live in California, and there are places that are warmer but still enjoy it well. So you moved out to California when you went to high school here. And then did you did college. Where did you do college?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 11:03 Well, I did some community college at De Anza. I did some courses over there. Most of my learning came from self study, community college courses, self study and university. Finally, University of metaphysics. I got involved in metaphysics over 20 years ago, which is, metaphysics is really philosophy. Philosophy comes from the Greek word, I believe metaphysical from from philosophy. So it's philosophy. It's what it is. I got involved in that about 25 years ago, when I met speakers like Anthony Robbins Les Brown, I started listening to Norman, Vincent, Peale, you've heard of him. People like that. People like that. And then I got into I've always been, I've always been a voracious reader, even in Chicago, I've always been a voracious reader, someone that wanted to know. So my educational track really started. See education in the United States and in a lot of places, is them pouring some menu. But true education is what you bring out of you, is what you learn about yourself internally. That's the true education, instead of pumping stuff in what's inside of you. So you take what's taken outside of you and mix it with what's inside of you, and there you go. So I've always been a self starter, but the University of metaphysics is really, really with the jewel to me. I said there's actually a place that reward or they give you a degree and what   Michael Hingson ** 12:21 you love. And where is that university?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 12:25 It's in Arizona. It's the largest metaphysical university in the world, the oldest metaphysical university in the world. In fact, Harvard just start off in metaphysical degrees in my in my field, about four years ago, which is a great thing, great. They finally came around to it and and they recognized it. Wait, wait a minute, they start offering the same degrees, metaphysical degrees. Now, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:49 well, but still, so did you go there and actually study there, or did you study remotely, as it were,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 12:56 instead of remotely, like Phoenix and all it's remote. I went there, of course, I graduated and going back and doing, get my third doctorate, to graduate, go across stage two. You have, we have ceremonies and all that. And we have, you know, we're renowned throughout the metaphysical world, throughout the world, as far as philosophy, right?   Michael Hingson ** 13:14 What got you to decide that you wanted to take up a study of metaphysics? You know, you went to community college. You studied some things there, and what did? Well, let me do this first. What did you do after Community College?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 13:26 Community College, I was family man, working building. See, I've always been a self starter. I've never jobs. Never settle with me. See, so I've always been a student, a study here. I've always been someone to read the books. Mm hmm. Listen to the motivational thing. Listen to the philosophy. I've always wanted to know deeper knowledge. And I had my brother that brought me to California. He's always been a student too. He was in the service. He's always been a a person that study and contemplate. He studied politics, war, philosophies, religion, and I follow. I did the same thing. So it's something that's been inside of me, believe it or not, for a very long time. I've known this since I was like eight years old. I've actually known it, and people that knew me knew it. In fact, one lady told me this about four years ago. She knew because I was a baby. I hadn't talked to her in about 40 years. She said, Oh my God, she's really my cousin, but not blood. And she said, Oh my God. And she started telling me about myself. Hence, she told me. She said, when you were a baby in the crib, you would always stand up for what's right. How can I do that in the crib? She said, when somebody's done wrong, you let them know. When you're a baby, when you guys start to stand up, walking up, you'd always stand up for what's right. So I've always had this sense of me, of service to other people and a sense of justice. Okay, certainly, I've had my pitfalls too and all that. That's not the point, but I've always had that with me. I've always had that thing about service and helping others. So getting into self help, which is what metaphysics is, self help and self development gets it was right up my alley. It was right down my lane. It. Was a straight strike. When I did that, it's just a strike. It's a fit like a glove. The glove does fit, by the way.   Michael Hingson ** 15:08 Well, what did you What is but what did you do after college? You had to support yourself and so on, until you decided to take this up. What did you do?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 15:16 No, no, I've been in sales all my life. Okay, I've been, I've been a salesman all my life. You've been sales, okay, yeah, sales, people, sales, good sales people will never starve. No, you always find a way to make it. That's it. I've been selling all my life, yeah? So that that that should answer that, yes, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 15:32 Now I understand well, and there's nothing wrong with being a good salesperson. I think that so many people don't understand that and misunderstand sales, but there are also a lot of people who do truly understand it, and they know that sales is all about developing trust. Sales is all about guiding somebody who needs something to the best solution for them, not just to make money, but as you said, it's all about self help and and helping others.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 16:01 Well, well, it's actually something real quick about sales. People that have issues with sales don't understand one thing you have issues with people that use sales in unethical way. Yeah, everything is sales, the phone you use and the headset using the house you get you to buy it from someone that sells the water that comes to your home is put there by somebody signing the contract. That's sales. Who going to bring the water to our home? What company? PG, e Edison cup, whatever. All everything is based on sales, sales communications. But because there's some people that are shysters, you blame the whole pot. You blame everybody. That's not the way it sells. Sales is sales is community. Sales is service. That's what sales   Michael Hingson ** 16:41 is. Sales is service. That's what it appear. And simple,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 16:45 yeah, it's not some sheisty guy or woman trying to con you. And no, that's a con person.   Michael Hingson ** 16:51 There are too many of those. There are way too many of those, but never every field. Yeah, in every field, yeah, sure. But what you say is true, sales is service in every sense of the word. And the best sales people are people, people who really understand that and put service above basically anything, because they know that what they do, they can do well, and they can help other people and make money, which is also part of what they do need to do, and that's okay.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 17:18 And without sales, nothing goes around. Sales is really communication. Sales connecting a product or service, fulfilling the need, getting rid of a pain or something you really don't want to bring you to what you want that sales is fulfilling, is uprooting the pain unfulfilled desire and bringing you to the pleasure side of getting what you need, whether it's food, clothing and shelter, all sales doing a bridging the gap, and the salesperson is a communicator that bridge that gap. And the reward is, once you have two satisfied sides, the company and the individual, the product, and the reward is you get paid to do it, right? So now it's like you're getting paid to do what you love, sure.   Michael Hingson ** 18:01 Well, and there you go, well. So you have, however, been a person who's been very focused on the whole concept of self improvement for quite a while. Yes. So what got you started down that road?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 18:19 Here's what got me started down that road I'm gonna go way back to Chicago again. I remember I was 13 years old, and my uncle used to get he was a big beer drinker, and he just talked to me, invite me over and my auntie, and he wanted me to talk. He's wanted me he won't hear me talk. I always had these philosophical sayings, even I was 10 years old, philosophical quotes, these ideas that I didn't read, but just came to me, and one day I told him, life is a dream. We're here to play roles, and we leave the earth. You wake up. In other words, there's no real physical body passes on, but you wake up and you're boom, whatever. Anyway, these philosophies like that. And he was at the lake with me trying to catch fish. He was so busy drinking beer and talking, he wouldn't catch no fish. He told me, talk. Keep talking. I kept talking. And so one day, he brought out my other uncle with us, and we sit down at the lake. And my other uncle was saying, I wish he'd Shut up. He turned to me and say, Talk. Listen to this boy talk. He kept doing that. And one day my aunt said this, he brings Tamir over because he want him to talk. That's why he brings them over. So that kind of encouraged me to make me realize that I had something of value, not just talk, something to say, he would ask me. And then I knew, I knew, from then on that I had a place in life to assist and service others will not just talk, but practical ideas to get results. So I've been known that for a very long time, allowed me to be very successful in sales. I've been top producing billion dollar companies allow me to write books and to be on share the stage with some great people like Mark Victor, Hansen and Jim Rohn. It allowed me to get into a space to where I am now, where this flawless confidence that I can be doing half whatever I want to be but I. I'm able to show other people how to do the same. Those are receptive and those that afford me to show that I'm not for everybody. I understand that,   Michael Hingson ** 20:07 right? You can only do what you can do, right? So you started down this, this path of dealing with self improvement, and how did that lead you into metaphysics?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 20:24 Well, remember now metaphysics and self is the same thing. It's just a different word. It's the same thing. Self improvement come from metaphysics.   Michael Hingson ** 20:31 But what made you decided that you wanted to get, like, an advanced degree in it, and actually get degreed in it   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 20:37 after studying over 1000 books in like a two year period. Literally, literally reading those books. Okay? After going through that kind of I went through a breakthrough in 2005 and I went to a breakthrough session called Breakthrough to success. And the gentleman told me something that's very interesting. I said, in this circle about 50 people around me, like I'm a fish in a fish bowl, he told me, I had high self confidence for low self esteem. In other words, I don't know what self esteem was. I had developed a Harvard vocabulary. I had spoken on stage and coached clients. I was top producing network marketing company. I don't know what self esteem I never thought about what self esteem was. He told me that if, for some reason, it really hit me, it really hit to the core of who I am. What do you mean low self esteem? You have had self confidence. And here's what I went home and I cried that night. I realized that what I realized what that meant, because I accept, I have to accept that, but I did. Here's what that meant. Self esteem is self confidence how you feel you can do outside of you. Self esteem is how you feel about yourself, okay, and there's no one like you. And I realized that self esteem by loving yourself and appreciating yourself, not trying to be anybody else, not trying to wish you with somebody else, not want anybody else, money, fame or fortune, but being you and loving you. When I got that, when I got that, my whole world shifted. Mm, hmm. It shifted from this having this confidence, knowing what I can do. I can communicate and speak and sell, but how do I I wasn't give enough attention to myself and appreciating who I was, my own value and that that go,   Michael Hingson ** 22:08 and that certainly is something that people around you would sense, who who understand how to do that, right?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 22:16 Well, this guy certainly did, and, yeah, I guess he's the only one that says that, not just me, but other people. I said, Wait a minute. I said, is I never, had never thought about that. Then I wrote a book called from that. I mean, I must have cried for about 30 days straight, every day, tears of joy in my heart. I didn't care about fame or fortune or impressing nobody. I wasn't trying to be this big speaker, this big guy. I'm just being me. I'm I love me. I didn't care about none of that, but myself and what I call God. And from that point on, I begin to really get things come to me that I never have. My mind really opened up to why I didn't care about trying to please anybody I was enjoying every moment. And I wrote a book called reclining master, awaken one minute to healthy esteem. That's when I wrote that book. It talked about, it's like an autobiography. It talked about my journey to understanding that and what happened to me, what what caused me to have low self esteem, what caused not to even understand what self esteem was, and I was a child in that book. Remember the movie The Wolf Man, with Lon Chaney, Cheney, That movie scared be Jesus out of me. My siblings would take me and tell me I was The Wolf Man, Wally Wolf. They call me The Wolf Man, right? And That movie scared me, man, and it really had a psychological effect on my on me growing up, right? I was really, really afraid, and didn't know that that child in me was still afraid. It was afraid all that time. And that's the part that was really hurt by the low self esteem when I discovered that game was on. It was over as far as that. No, I love me. I'm good enough. I am that you're a bet, we're both that that's all there is that was it. Game was on after that.   Michael Hingson ** 23:53 So does the boyfriend scare you today? No, I   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 23:56 laugh at that. Okay, it's funny. That's funny as heck. I laugh at it. It's funny as heck to me and like, Wow. I look at again, like, wow, really, seriously, I can see how that could affect somebody. You tell a little kid something like that.   Michael Hingson ** 24:09 Lon Chaney in that movie, comes across as not having great self esteem. But that's another story.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 24:16 Look well and i It's not to say I mimic that.   Michael Hingson ** 24:19 I manage that? Yeah,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 24:23 people too. I get to fight side you bite, people too.   Michael Hingson ** 24:27 So when did you essentially start doing your own business and start working toward coaching and teaching and finding ways to work with clients?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 24:39 2000 No, 1994 I began to really study the self improvement movement. And I would see guys like Les Brown, that's, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I like that. I was already that. I was already teaching. I was already doing that. I didn't know that was a field. I've told that. Years ago, a guy told me that, and I. The other field, like that. And I started to study those guys and see what they do. And I'm like, really interesting. They're doing their thing, they're talking they're assisting people. Okay, I can do that too. Then I get involved in network marketing. Network marketing is one of those fields where people are. They're some most open to self development I've ever seen out of all the fields, network marketing and direct sales, they are the most open people to self development. They will spend the money on themselves. People spend money on everything, on fancy cars, bigger housing, they need clothing, everything. But they lot of more spend money on good books and to self improve, right? So when I, when I, when I saw that, I said, Wait a minute. Hmm, here we go. Here we go. This is what I want to do. This what we'll do. So I took that with my sales ability, and I started to have that finance me as I go see sales and self improvement. The same thing, the best sales people have charmed character charisma and class. They have charm. Character charisma and class. They ask questions. They seek to see understand other people. They seek to appreciate other people. Those who appreciate it show appreciation. They seek to listen and to learn and to find out what the customer or client want. And they try to match that with that, out of all sincerity, and that's why I love sales. Sales and self improvement go together. Yeah, they go right together.   Michael Hingson ** 26:25 And the best sales people are the ones who will even say, if their product isn't the right product, it won't work,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 26:32 it won't work. And that's the best coaches, the best anything. If I was coaching the client today, and she's a prospect and we're talking, and I told her that I don't want your money. No, no. This. This is a preliminary call. Okay, here's why. I don't know if I can assist you or not. I don't know what I have will assist your situation. I don't even know you yet. How can I ask you for money? She was so appreciative of that, because most people in our industry, they talk to you one time and offer you something. Wait a minute. You don't know what Michael needs. You haven't even diagnosed him. You heard what he's gonna say. You had a canned thing. You're gonna it was canned what you're gonna say to him. You do what you're gonna say. Well, me, I'm different, Michael, I don't know what I'm gonna say to you. That 30 minute call is really discovery call, sure. And if you qualify, if I qualify, let's set up another call in that call. Then at the end of that call, we may come to something, then I can make your offer. So I feel I can help you at if there's a match, boom. That's what a doctor does. No. Doctor, no. Doctor you go to is going to tell you your jaw hurt. You said, No. Doctor, my thigh hurts. Is a pain? No, your jaw hurts that doctor's a quack. That's a lot of coaches do. A lot of them are quacks. They just read something and they want to apply to micro plat. To Michael, apply to me. That may not even fit me. I may not be the one to help Michael, sure, and I have enough integrity and faith and confidence to command to know that in other way, I don't have commission breath. I'm going to get mine regardless. And nobody can stop   Michael Hingson ** 27:54 it, sure. Well, and again, it's how you operate, and it's the ethics you operate with which is very important. Ethics.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 28:05 In fact, I it's, this is a shameless plug, but I'm gonna do it anyway. My third doctor I just finished, called conscious business ethics. Conscious business ethics. You see how we went from metaphysics to to the secular world, and Harvard went from the secular world to metaphysics, we both came together now. So we're doing one. I'm doing one now on conscious business ethics, which is a really big issue in business today. Oh yeah, business are more concerned about their bottom line than the people that work for them, until they treat their employees like customers. They always have those problems they don't need,   Michael Hingson ** 28:39 and it's unfortunate, but I think there have always certainly been people who weren't overly ethical, but I think it used to be that a larger number of businesses were more loyal to employees than we see today. Now the response always is, this is what the stockholders want. That's what we have to listen to, and that's all we listen to. And that's just not true.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 29:05 Not only is it not true, is it not true? What a lot of companies are turned around, well, they begin to understand the value of self improvement, the value of treat the value of leadership versus management, the value of being a boss versus being a leader. There's a difference. Managers push leaders, pull managers tables. Do leaders encourage you. They change languages on how they talk to you, how to present to you. They that you understand. You have a family. This person has a family. Have needs and concerns outside this business, the way a lot of businesses do it now and have done in the past. This the business. This is our life. This what we want, regardless what you want if you fit in or you don't, well, they ran up on a I'm a rhino that never worked with me, brother. I am psychologically unemployable. I will work a job. I have to, even today, if I say it's quote, unquote, have to. I would do I gotta do to get what I gotta get. But I'm a rhino, I'm gonna I'm psychologically and terminally unemployable. I was taught by Yogananda, which is, you. One of my favorite teachers wrote Autobiography of a yoga you may have heard of yoga under and I've been his student for 15 years, and he said something very important that already knew, but he affirmed it, if you're, if you're, if you can't be subordinate to other people. Some, some of us are like that. That's not your style. Then do what you got to do until you get where you get where you got to go, be respectable who you with, take it and then move, but be working your way out of it. Yeah, but I, I've been terminally unemployable all my life. Brother, a renegade.   Michael Hingson ** 30:32 Well, but that doesn't mean that you're not useful part of the system, or trustworthy or reliable. It just means that you operate in a slightly different way than most people are used to doing.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 30:46 Well, yeah, it means this You're right. It means this You're right. It means that you look into Apple to give you something. I'm going to create my own apple. That's what it means. I'm that kind of person. We need those kind of people. If we didn't, you wouldn't have this laptop. You wouldn't have the technology you have right now. Those people were innovators, entrepreneurs like me, you I'm an entrepreneur. I'm the entrepreneur solopreneur. They want to be apreneurs, and there's not a preneurs Don't even try go to work for somebody else. Don't even try to be apreneur. Some people just don't have it. So no, it doesn't mean anything that. It means that being psychologically employable. Mean that, okay? He is IBM, he is Apple, okay? He is Tesla, he is Cadillac, he is American airline. I'm like that. Whether I achieve that level, it's irrelevant. I'm one of those people that's all. That's it.   Michael Hingson ** 31:36 So for you, who are the typical people who would be your client, who are your typical clients or your target audience today, entrepreneurs.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 31:49 I mean entrepreneurs in a real sense, those who understand sales and psychology, entertainers, athletes. Why say those people, those in network marketing and sales? Because those people traditionally understand mindset. They're coming to the mindset they they promote the books in their seminars and the reading and bringing the speakers. They're open to they're open to it, to what I have. They're ready for it. They're ready for it. That's my audience. That's my target. And I hold it on target, because people say, Well, my audience is everybody. Well, not true, not true. If you want to catch bass, you go to a bass lake. I have specific audience that I'm targeting, and I'm focused on the article that audience is open and receptive and to level I'm at. I don't teach kindergar. That's not my specialty. Okay, they gotta start too, okay. I teach those people that are in the field that want to get it, they have a glimpse of it, they want to get it now. They're ready. So with me, it's like a university level coaching. It doesn't mean you gotta, you have to, you have to have 10 years in the field. It means that you're open and receptive, to listen, to accept and to work. When I give somebody assignment, if you don't work it, don't talk to me about it, unless you have a question about it. If you didn't work it, I don't talk to you about it. I want you to. I'd rather you fail first, then come back to me, because the other side of failure is success. We got to tweak it or do something. But if you don't do the assignment I give you, let's talk about the next thing, not that we'll talk about that. When you do if you don't do it, I   Michael Hingson ** 33:17 won't talk about it, yeah, unless there's some real, substantial reason why you didn't or couldn't do it, but that's different, but that's a different story.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 33:26 Amen. I agree with you that that's that's true, brother,   Michael Hingson ** 33:30 that's always a different story, right, right? So you, at the same time, you have to earn money and survive. What are your thoughts about the whole concept of money?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 33:44 Money is a terrible master, but a wonderful servant. Yeah, money is money is necessary. Money has this place. Money is good, money is not bad, money is not evil, it's not wicked, and nothing like that. Money is neutral. Money serves you according to your level of service and how you expected to serve you, how you think about it. Money is a terrible masculine it's a wonderful servant. Money is that thing where can serve you, but it can be the one of the worst tyrants, second to sex, lust, that is the worst. But let me get back to Money. Money is a tool. Money is energy. That's why they call it currency. And it must flow. If it's not flowing, it ain't growing. If it ain't growing, you ain't knowing you feel me and that mean, that mean you ain't sowing the seed that rhymed. I just made that up, by the way. Good job. I just made that up, dude, off the top of my head, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 34:37 good job.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 34:38 This came to me. It happened to rhyme, we learning rhymes. Hickory Dickory Dock, the mouse went up the clock and all that kind of stuff. So that's what I think that's that's money. The concept of money is very fascinating, because money is the most easy thing I've ever manifested. See, money is actually easy to manifest, but people make it hard. Here's why, because they're running. After it. While you're running after it, it's right there in front of you, but you're chasing after it, and you want to knock on other people, to get with a light sheet and still to get it. Some people, some willing to con someone, to do unethical things, to get you to do it like the old commercial. What's this taste good? Like a cigarette should? Well, there's nothing good tasting about tobacco. I always   Michael Hingson ** 35:21 wondered that myself, having never smoked, but yeah, I hear you,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 35:24 yeah, yeah, but telling you that, telling you that, getting your mind that frame gets you to spend your money. And we're so money conscious. You want to get money. I want to spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, spend. How about respecting the money? How can I make this money circulate? How can I one give something to somebody else in a service or calls? Okay, it's very good to do that, whether you call it tithing or just giving. That doesn't matter with the percentage. It doesn't matter. Give from the heart someone else. And then find a way to circulate that money. That money is actually energy. It will, it comes back to you. It actually comes back to it circulates. You create. You create a universal energy, a Goodwill has nothing to do with religion, politics or nothing, but I just said nothing. I just said has something to do with life and the laws of the universe, albeit which works the same for everybody, for everybody. Mm, hmm.   Michael Hingson ** 36:17 Well, you clearly want to help people, and you want people to obtain results. What do you do? Or how do you how are you able to consistently help entrepreneurs and your clients and so on to achieve dynamic results and positive results? Another way of saying is, what do you do anyway? Go ahead,   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 36:38 right? What do you Well, I'm a content creator. I create content. Okay? I create content. I have a course that's coming out really soon called create dynamic results, and it's a seven transformational steps to show people how to make these subtle mind shifts that become permanent. Okay? And I'm fortunate enough to be the guide through this program. In that program, what they learn to do is how to take those habits, those nagging, nagging habits. See, habits are what make us what we are. Habits. Period, you brush your teeth in the morning. It's a hat bleeding. You gotta think about you're gonna brush your teeth. You're not gonna think about it. You gotta get up and go do it. Period, in the story, you're not gonna more about it. Not gonna say maybe I don't feel like today, you gotta do it Okay. More like them do it okay. And because the habit, because that little bit happens, ingraining your brain, it's like a fluid. It's been ingrained, and it's like a track. Now, as soon as you wake up, soon as you wake up, waking up and open your eyes and get out of bed, is actually a trigger to go brush your teeth. Now it's a trigger, so you got to do it. Well, bad habits are the same way you have habits you don't want. They're the same way those habits you hear certain words or certain things that trigger anger certainly trigger hunger, certain thing will trigger lust, greed or violence or just whatever. Okay, so in order to have the habits that, that, that that that that support you, that benefits you, you have to transmute those by setting yourself on like a seven days. I'm just using seven days right now. Say, say, You tell yourself today I'm not going to get angry, period. Imma, remain calm. Now, when you say that, I guarantee you, I will guarantee you, I'll bet you $25 to a bucket of beans that you're going to get plenty opportunities to get angry that day. People going to say things. They're going to do things you're angry. Now here's the thing. The test is to remember what you said, what you said when it comes, ignore it, and then replace that with a different you keep doing that, you're going to change that habit. Eventually, it may take a year you're going to change that habit. So you've got a habit of procrastinating, not following up on your goals, your plans, not prospecting. You can change that habit by going through certain steps, by changing those grooves in the brain, okay to have that record play. One good example is that is the mother Turkey. The mother Turkey is one of the best mothers in creation. The mother Turkey love that baby, cleans that nurtures that baby. Just really, really, really, really, really, okay. And when that baby chirps, that baby chirps, that baby chirp that the turkey hearts melt. That mother Turkey heart will melt when that baby chirp, period. So now you have let me change some you have this pole cat. Pole cat is the universal enemy of a turkey. When Turkey see a pole cat, that Turkey go crazy and get crazy and want to kill. It this hard to death. Well, there's a spirit one day where they put a pole cat near the turkey, and the turkey went crazy, gonna kill it to protect his young. Well, they had a little walkie, a little radio inside of the a little device inside, the inside of stuffed turkey. That shirt like little baby birds, red Turkey chirp that Turkey. When that pole cat shirt, that Turkey was disarmed, that Turkey nurtured the phony pole cat. Cause of that chirp, nurtured it. Heard that shirt. That's what habits are. You're a certain sound, and you act like a robot. So actually, we're puppets on a string. This is getting a little deeper that. That's, in essence, what it is. So in assisting people how to change those habits and. Then how to concentrate Focus. Focus is so big in self improvement. All people great success have great focus skills, but very few people teach you how to focus. Have anyone ever taught you how to focus? Very few people have techniques like that how to focus. Then there's self analysis. When you self analysis, you analyze yourself. Then there's willpower, which is creative power. Then there's transportation and sexual energy, and then the words you speak to yourself, those six or seven things I just named, are the key and foundational to all of our success.   Michael Hingson ** 40:31 The only thing I would add to that are the words that your inner voice is saying to you, and you need to learn to listen to them.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 40:36 That's and that's what I said about that self analysis. Yeah, right, right. And that's where you come in, concentrate and meditation, yeah. And so one thing about meditation really quickly, real quick meditation people, especially a lot of religious people, think, well, I'm this or that. I'm a Christian, Muslim or Judas or Jew or Buddhist. I don't do that meditation stuff. Stop, stop, stop. Here's where knowledge becomes power when you understand and use it. When you want to get stronger arms, you can do push ups when you want to shoot. Be a better shooter in basketball, you practice the shots anything you want. You practice Okay, in order to strengthen your mind, where you have the one point of focus on where you're calm you meditation is an exercise of the mind. That's it. No matter what religion you are, be quiet and learn how to calm down, to quiet the thoughts, all distracting thoughts. Once you quiet the thoughts, and then that lake becomes clear without any ripples, and you see the pure reflects of the moon, that's gonna become calm. That's when you get some stuff done. Now you can focus on that thing with laser focus and get it done. Nothing great was ever done without laser focus, ever? There are no accidents,   Michael Hingson ** 41:46 right? Well, and also just the whole idea of clearing your mind, letting yourself calm down. It's perfectly okay to ask yourself, How do I accomplish this? The problem with most people is they won't listen for the answer, no. And whether you want to say it's God telling you your inner voice or whatever, it's really all the same thing. But the problem is, people won't listen. And then when they get the answer, they go, it can't be that simple. People don't listen to that inner voice.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 42:20 It's very powerful. I meant to the inner voice thing. I love meditation. I love doing it as once a little girl in the church, she's a Catholic, and she was she whenever, I believe the church, she'd sit there about 10 or 15 minutes every week. And so the cardinal, whoever given the service, came here and said, How you doing, little girl, when she stopped, Hi, how are you? I noticed after every service, everybody leave the chapel. Your parents leave outside too. But every Sunday, little girl, you sit here, I think she's about 12 years old, you sit here, and you keep praying. And he asked her, why may I ask? Why? Why? Why you do it like that? She said, Because. Now, watch this out of the mouth of babes, because everybody's praying to God. I want to hear what God has to say to has to say to me. Mm hmm. I want to listen. Bam. Mic drop. That's it. Mm hmm. Mic drop. That's how powerful being quiet in meditation is meditation exercising the mind. So if you say, Well, I'm a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, I'm a Baha that doesn't matter. Meditation had nothing to do with that. It has nothing to do with that. Has them do it like you said, Brother internally, who you are, your inner self. This is that still small voice. And by the way, all those religions say that, but few people understand that. They all say the same. They all said the same thing. I know because I study them. I studied the world religions. I studied Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Kabbalah. I studied new thought. I studied that stuff. I love it, but I understood something about it that we're all actually one. We're what we're actually one,   Michael Hingson ** 43:56 viewed as the many. Do you generally find that you can get through to people who want to be your clients. Or how does that work?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 44:06 Can you repeat that, please?   Michael Hingson ** 44:07 Okay, so somebody comes to you and says, I really want to hear what you have to say. I want to learn from you. And you've talked about the fact you don't teach kindergarteners. You you teach people who are further along the process. Do you? Do you ever miss assess or find that you're not teaching the right person or they just don't want to listen to you once you get started and working with them?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 44:29 I've never had that happen. I thank God never. I'll tell you why. When people come to me, okay, people want to make money, they want to increase their sale, they want to increase their contact, they want to increase their network. They will increase their productivity by me showing them how to increase their transformative value, to enhance their performative value, to get to the results they want. Here are the results we talk about. We talk about what they want. Now see when I'm talking to you right. Now, give me the philosophy, but the coaching is very different. The floats, the culture is actually the philosophy in action with what they're doing. You. I use the language they're doing, interacting what they're doing, how their prospect, who they're talking to, the attitude they have, the ideas how to shift certain things. What goals you hitting right now? Okay, what do you do? What what's what's the top person in the company doing? What are you doing? How do you rate yourself to that? What are you doing right now? Let me show you how to increase that by 25% 50% in the next month. Let me show you how to increase that. So I'll take what they're doing and I'll remember now all what I'm saying is good, but if you can't take it to fit the people and make it practical, it's just talk. All books, all books, religious or whatever, are just dead writings. Until you make them come alive, we have to make them come alive. So I take what I'm take talking now, and I apply it to the network marketing, the sales, the people, into coaching, the mind technology, you have to apply it. So I never had that problem. I haven't I thank the Creator for that. Never had that issue. Never, never had that because anyone even hit   Michael Hingson ** 45:59 that, yeah, because you've had people that that when you accept them as a client, you've you've communicated with them, you've assessed what their needs are. They tell you what their needs are, and you come to agreement as to they're going to listen to you to deal with fulfilling those needs, right?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 46:17 You're going to follow it like in my in my course, that I'm at the part of the course creator. I'm court doing the videos right now, the intro and outro and all that. This one thing my class got to understand. When you get this course, if you don't do the work, don't talk to me about it. Now, if something come up where you can't get it done, you need a way to get it done. Let's talk. But you just didn't do it. You have not earned the right to come to me and tell me that, which is what I have to work before, right? Yeah, talk about before. So, so I'm really into getting you to move and to feel that result. See, everything is result of something, and you need to prove that to yourself. And no one can do that, but you, no one's gonna do but you, no one can do but you, no one should do but you, damn it. You should do it, but you can be guided,   Michael Hingson ** 47:07 that's right, to how to do it. But then you have to make, but you have to make the choice to do it.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 47:14 That's right, see, and I don't care if it's Warren Buffett, I'll give you example about here's what coaching is all about, and mentoring is all about it's all about human beings having two things that they want to do. They want to avoid pain and suffering and gain pleasure, reach the desire. There's only two motivators we have. There are no other motivators, no other motivators in the universe. We only have two motivators, to avoid suffering and pain and to seek happiness and feel the desire. Okay? The idea is to solve the pain puzzle so that the person, place or thing, can enjoy the pleasure principle. If I can solve I don't give a warren buffett right now. If Warren Buffett, with all his billions, would approach me right now, if he had a problem that no one could solve all his life and it gnaws at him, he won't answer to it. He's dreamed about all these years. And if he met me right now and he felt that that's the one he can solve that problem. He would hire me right now. He would hire me right now. That's right, yep. Well, it doesn't matter how much money you have. When I learned that, when that dawn upon me, game on for anybody. There are people out there that are my clients, and I know it. I don't care how what your status is. I'll give you the king of England or the pet the United States. I don't care if you the Grand Poobah. I don't care if you have a trillion dollars in the bank. If you got an issue, and I'm the one you see can solve it, you're going to pay me, and I'm going to work with you, period. That's the commitment, though, there are no boundaries, right?   Michael Hingson ** 48:39 That's That's the commitment. You are committing to do it. You're committing to help. You're committing to bring your skills to it. Bring my   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 48:47 skill set to it. I don't have to have as much money as you to do it. I ain't got to have a bigger home than you to do that. I ain't got to be Michael Jordan to help. Michael Jordan if he had the problem of pain. So I don't have to be that. Once people that coach and teach get past that. A lot of my scared, why that person can't? Oh, hold on, I might have a answer to a thing that Anthony Robbins need help with. We all need some growth and development. We all do until we reach that level of a certain level where we're there and we're just helping other people. But most of us, most of us, 99% of us or more, have pain problems, get who you are and give you a story about Joseph in the Bible. You've heard the story about Joseph in the Bible, how Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers. Okay? He sold slavery by his brothers into prison, something he didn't do. And while he was in prison, he began to be known as his philosophy and his work and his spirituality. And people would talk to him. So one guy got out, Joseph said, Please tell the king, yada ya, or whatever. The guy got out and forgot about Joseph. Then tell Well, years more, more years passed by. Another guy got out. He went and told the king, or whatever, about Joseph. I know a guy can solve your dreams. I'm paraphrasing the story. And the king asked Joseph to come out. He's, I heard you can solve my problems. And. Joseph told him how to solve his problem. Well, Joseph became a billionaire overnight. Yeah, he solved the king's problem. That's not the exact story, but you see, no. So it doesn't matter who you are or your status in life, once you get past that thinking, well, I ain't, I can't do this. I only live in No, no, no, no, no, no. They do it work. It's like, it's like, it's like, needing, getting to car accident, okay? And your stomach is you got a gas in your stomach, okay? And say you're multi billionaire, okay? Or say you the biggest athlete in the planet or the richest king in the world, you're not going to say how much money that doctor make, or nothing like that. You're going to say, Please heal me. You don't care about that. That doctor had the skill to heal you to take care, and that's you want to take care. That's all you want. Gotta say, I don't want that doctor flying so and so from so and so. You're not gonna do that. And a lot of people understand that when you have something to give, you give it. You hone your skills, you bunker down, you walk with thoughtless confidence, command, you have the self esteem, doing the ambient maybe move forward. That's why I work with entrepreneurs and I will work with people that are not on that low. Get me wrong. Now, I'm not saying I will work with people that are newbies. All depends on the newbie. If they want sales training, I'll give it to them. Yes, I'll give it to them. They want sales training. They want training on how to close, how to be better communicated. Sales are the communication daughter, a daughter of charm character, Chris man, class, and the more charm character, charisma and class you add in appropriate form, you're able to connect, communicate and close. That's seven C's, yep, sell the seven C's.   Michael Hingson ** 51:36 I counted four. Where are the other three? Charm, charm characterism   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 51:40 in class. That's four, communicate, connect and close.   Michael Hingson ** 51:44 Okay, just checking on you, because once   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 51:47 you have those four, you open to bed. Line of communication. Add some more things in there. As far as you know, psychology and persuasion tools. Now you're connecting. Once you connect, then you can close.   Michael Hingson ** 51:59 There you go. Just wanted to make sure we got to all seven.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 52:02 We got all Thank you. Thank you for holding me to that.   Michael Hingson ** 52:06 No, I hear exactly what you're saying, and it is, it is so important to do that. So tell me what you know, with all the things that you're doing, you're clearly a person who cares, what's your take on giving back and charity and so on?   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 52:26 Everything, everything, everything. And I'll tell you why I say everything, everything is a result of something the universe and life is always giving me something. Mm, hmm. See, life is what I call the creator's gift to us. What we give back is our gift to the creator for being on this planet. We are creators. Giving is a natural part of your being, who you are, your power. When you're your power, you can give from the heart, okay? And when you give, believe me, it's going to come back to you anyway. Now you don't give it for it to come back. You give it because you want to service and love because you you realize that we're one giving, giving from the heart empowers you. You want to feel empowered give you want to feel empowered every time somebody get paid, give something. I don't care if it's 10% of 5% give from your heart and keep it to yourself. Yeah, much as you can. Keep it to yourself, because you spoil your own goods. Keep it to yourself and let it flow the way it's going to flow, and then you will grow, and then you'll know, yep, how it goes. That Ryan too. I just made that up. That pretty   Michael Hingson ** 53:36 well rhymes, yeah, but, but it's true. It's true. Too many people have to show off. Oh, I gave a million dollars to this charity. The problem is, you're not you shouldn't be doing it for notoriety. You should be doing it because it's the right thing to do. It's what you want to do.   Dr Tamir Qadree ** 53:55 If somebody found out that's different, like Warren Buffett is one of my favorite. Warren Buffet is one of my favorites. Warren Buffett is one of the most humble giving people. His money 70 billion he gave out. It got out there because there's so much money. I bet he didn't, he didn't promote that. Okay, now I look, I look at one athlete. I won't mention a name here, always, they always say about how much he gives and how much he gives. And build this and build that. Always talk about that, about that guy, the other guy they compare him to, never opens his mouth about his giving. He gives all the time. Never opens his mouth. One guy always told me what he gives, and I said to myself, dude, that that that's taboo. This the opposite of giving. I'm not saying your heart ain't in it, but you're allowing this narrative to be there without comment on the narrative that's it's that is personal, that, in fact, giving to me is sacred. It is sacred. You're giving to help humanity, other people, my gift, my charity, which I have to do today, by the wa

Mica Scalin is an artist, innovator, and coach. She was among the first producers hired by NBC Universal Digital Studios, she launched social media strategy at Showtime Networks and served as VP of Communications for media non-profit JDub. She has produced documentary films, art exhibitions, and cultural events. From grassroots to broadcast, her passion lies in creating experiences that make meaningful connections between people. She completed MA in Media Studies at CUNY Queens College in NY and a BFA in Photography from the Corcoran School of Art in Washington, DC. She is certified in Leadership Coaching for Organizational Performance from Rutgers University and ACC Accredited by the International Coaching Federation. She is the co-author of Creative Sprint: Six 30-day Challenges to Jumpstart Your Creativity. She is one of the humans behind dOGUMENTA: America's First Art Show For Dogs.Follow her journey:http://anotherlimitedrebellion.com/https://www.micawave.coach/https://www.linkedin.com/in/micascalinLook out for ROI of Creativity for September / October 2025:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/roi-of-creativity-summit-registration-1553395580999 ***********Susanne Mueller / www.susannemueller.biz TEDX Talk, May 2022: Running and Life: 5KM Formula for YOUR Successhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT_5Er1cLvY 700+ weekly blogs / 500 podcasts / 1 Ironman Triathlon / 5 half ironman races / 26 marathon races / 4 books / 1 Mt. Kilimanjaro / 1 TEDx Talk

Episode Summary: In this special episode, Solar Maverick Podcast co-host Li Wang turns the microphone on Benoy Thanjan, who shares his experience as a 9/11 survivor and how that day changed the course of his life. Benoy recounts being inside the World Trade Center when the first plane hit, the chaos of escaping, and the lasting impact of witnessing tragedy up close. He opens up about gratitude, resilience, and how the experience pushed him to pursue work that makes a difference. Key Takeaways Living with Gratitude: Surviving 9/11 instilled a daily appreciation for life and the present moment. Purpose Beyond Profit: The experience inspired Benoy to leave a purely financial career path and dedicate himself to renewable energy and making an impact. Legacy of 9/11: The tragedy continues to affect survivors' physical and mental health, but it also fuels determination to live with purpose.   Biographies Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy, solar developer and consulting firm, and a strategic advisor to multiple cleantech startups. Over his career, Benoy has developed over 100 MWs of solar projects across the U.S., helped launch the first residential solar tax equity funds at Tesla, and brokered $45 million in Renewable Energy Credits (“REC”) transactions. Prior to founding Reneu Energy, Benoy was the Environmental Commodities Trader in Tesla's Project Finance Group, where he managed one of the largest environmental commodities portfolios. He originated REC trades and co-developed a monetization and hedging strategy with senior leadership to enter the East Coast market. As Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners, Benoy crafted project finance solutions for commercial-scale solar portfolios. His role at Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund with 125 MWs of U.S. renewable assets, involved evaluating investment opportunities and maximizing returns. He also played a key role in the sale of the firm's renewable portfolio. Earlier in his career, Benoy worked in Energy Structured Finance at Deloitte & Touche and Financial Advisory Services at Ernst & Young, following an internship on the trading floor at D.E. Shaw & Co., a multi billion dollar hedge fund. Benoy holds an MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from NYU Stern, where he was an Alumni Scholar. Li Wang Better every day. That's the way I aspire to live. I was born in 1973 in Philadelphia. My parents immigrated from Taipei and my dad's first job out of graduate school was in Philadelphia. I'm a die-hard Eagles fan and being raised in that city has shaped my identity. Hip-hop culture served as my first artistic influence. Run-DMC, Public Enemy and the Beastie Boys shaped how I created my own environment. During the summer of O.J. trial I interned at the Philadelphia Daily News. I became hooked on journalism. I went on to another internship at the Des Moines Register and started my career as a business reporter for the Times of Trenton. I was the arts editor for the Honolulu Weekly and then the film critic for the Harrisburg Patriot-News. Website design I could see the end of the print industry so I decided to get a professional certificate in digital marketing from New York University. I started an agency with a partner doing SEO, PPC , content creation and website design. My partner decided to focus on software development and I turned my attention to website design. Today I help small business owners shine online with compelling websites to resonate with their target audiences. Personal interests I'm a fitness enthusiast (CrossFit), watch collector (14060M, PAM112, SBGA085), and father (Matthew and Noemi).   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   Li Wang Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/liwang22/ Website:  https://www.littleoxworkshop.com/

Send us a textWe have a political supremacist problem in America where certain ideologies believe their viewpoint is so morally correct that violence becomes an acceptable response to their opponents.• A Rutgers University study found over 50% of left-of-center respondents believed the assassination of political figures was justified• The FBI Assailant Study revealed 28% of cop killers acted for "social and political reasons"• Law enforcement needs federal support, resources, and intelligence to address this domestic terrorism threat• We cannot expect this situation to improve without acknowledging and confronting the reality of domestic terrorism• Speaking truth professionally and boldly is essential even in the face of intimidationVisit the Courageous Police Leader at travisyates.org or subscribe to the weekly articles at courageouspoliceleader.com for more insights and leadership guidance.Join Our Tribe of Courageous Leaders: Get The BookGet Weekly Articles by Travis YatesJoin Us At Our WebsiteGet Our 'Courageous Leadership' TrainingJoin The Courageous Police Leadership Alliance

Vocational assessments can shape spousal support and earning-capacity debates. Rhonda and Dan unpack what credible reports look like, how to prepare, and how to challenge numbers that don't match reality. What you'll learn in this episode: ✨ Purpose & scope: Employability, realistic job options, training needs, and reasonable earnings. ✨ Data that matters: Social Security earnings, medical narratives, education, work history, and daily commitments.  ✨ Prep moves: What to bring, how to show up, and how to keep the interview factual and respectful.  ✨ Quality standards: Current labor data, paid databases, and transparent methodology—not a Google job search.  ✨ Retraining reality: Timelines (PT vs. FT), tuition costs, entry pay, and wage progression. ✨ After the report: Red flags to spot and when to seek a second opinion. 

Matt Forbeck is all that and so much more. He grew up in Wisconsin as what he describes as a wimpy kid, too short and not overly healthy. He took to gaming at a pretty early age and has grown to be a game creator, author and award-winning storyteller.   Matt has been designing games now for over 35 years. He tells us how he believes that many of the most successful games today have stories to tell, and he loves to create some of the most successful ones. What I find most intriguing about Matt is that he clearly is absolutely totally happy in his work. For most of Matt's career he has worked for himself and continues today to be an independent freelancer.   Matt and his wife have five children, including a set of quadruplets. The quadruplets are 23 and Matt's oldest son is 28 and is following in his father's footsteps.   During our conversation we touch on interesting topics such as trust and work ethics. I know you will find this episode stimulating and worth listening to more than once.     About the Guest:   Matt Forbeck is an award-winning and New York Times-bestselling author and game designer of over thirty-five novels and countless other books and games. His projects have won a Peabody Award, a Scribe Award, and numerous ENnies and Origins Awards. He is also the president of the Diana Jones Award Foundation, which celebrates excellence in gaming.    Matt has made a living full-time on games and fiction since 1989, when he graduated from the Residential College at the University of Michigan with a degree in Creative Writing. With the exception of a four-year stint as the president of Pinnacle Entertainment Group and a year and a half as the director of the adventure games division of Human Head Studios, he has spent his career as an independent freelancer.   Matt has designed collectible card games, roleplaying games, miniatures games, board games, interactive fiction, interactive audiobooks, games for museum installations, and logic systems for toys. He has directed voiceover work and written short fiction, comic books, novels, screenplays, and video game scripts and stories. His work has been translated into at least 15 languages.   His latest work includes the Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game Core Rulebook, the Spider-Verse Expansion, Monster Academy (novels and board game), the Shotguns & Sorcery 5E Sourcebook based on his novels, and the Minecraft: Roll for Adventure game books. He is the father of five, including a set of quadruplets. He lives in Beloit, Wisconsin, with his wife and a rotating cast of college-age children. For more about him and his work, visit Forbeck.com.   Ways to connect with Matt:   Twitter: https://twitter.com/mforbeck Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/forbeck Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/forbeck.com Threads: https://www.threads.net/@mforbeck Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mforbeck/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/forbeck/ Website: https://www.forbeck.com/     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset today. We get to play games. Well, not really, but we'll try. Our guest is Matt Forbeck, who is an award winning author. He is a game designer and all sorts of other kinds of things that I'm sure he's going to tell us about, and we actually just before we started the the episode, we were talking about how one might explore making more games accessible for blind and persons with other disabilities. It's, it's a challenge, and there, there are a lot of tricks. But anyway, Matt, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Matt Forbeck ** 02:02 Well, thank you, Michael for inviting me and having me on. I appreciate it.   Speaker 1 ** 02:06 I think we're going to have a lot of fun, and I think it'll work out really well. I'm I am sure of that. So why don't we start just out of curiosity, why don't you tell us kind of about the early Matt, growing up?   Matt Forbeck ** 02:18 Uh, well, I grew up. I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I grew up in a little town called Beloit, Wisconsin, which actually live in now, despite having moved away for 13 years at one point, and I had terrible asthma, I was a sick and short kid, and with the advent of medication, I finally started to be healthy when I was around nine, and Part of that, I started getting into playing games, right? Because when you're sick, you do a lot of sitting around rather than running around. So I did a lot of reading and playing games and things like that. I happen to grow up in the part of the world where Dungeons and Dragons was invented, which is in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, about 30 miles from where I live. And because of that I was I started going to conventions and playing games and such, when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I started doing it when I was a little bit older. I started doing it professionally, and started doing it when I was in college. And amazingly enough, even to my own astonishment, I've made a career out of it.   Speaker 1 ** 03:17 Where did you go to college? I went to the University   Matt Forbeck ** 03:21 of Michigan over in Ann Arbor. I had a great time there. There's a wonderful little college, Beloit College, in my hometown here, and most of my family has gone to UW Milwaukee over the years. My parents met at Marquette in Milwaukee, but I wanted to get the heck out of the area, so I went to Michigan, and then found myself coming back as soon as we started having   Speaker 1 ** 03:42 kids well, and of course, I would presume that when you were at the University of Michigan, you rooted for them and against Ohio State. That was   Matt Forbeck ** 03:50 kind of, you know, if you did it the other way around, they back out of town. So, yeah, I was always kind of astonished, though, because having grown up in Wisconsin, where every sports team was a losing team when I was growing up, including the Packers, for decades. You know, we were just happy to be playing. They were more excuse to have beers than they were to cheer on teams. And I went to Michigan where they were, they were angry if the team wasn't up by two touchdowns. You know, at any point, I'm like, You guys are silly. This is we're here for fun.   Speaker 1 ** 04:17 But it is amazing how seriously some people take sports. I remember being in New Zealand helping the Royal New Zealand Foundation for the Blind. Well now 22 years ago, it's 2003 and the America's Cup had just finished before we got there, and in America beat New Zealand, and the people in New Zealand were just irate. They were complaining that the government didn't put enough money into the design of the boat and helping with the with the yacht and all that. It was just amazing how seriously people take it, yeah,   Matt Forbeck ** 04:58 once, I mean, it becomes a part of your. Identity in a lot of ways, right for many people, and I've never had to worry about that too much. I've got other things on my mind, but there you go.   Speaker 1 ** 05:08 Well, I do like it when the Dodgers win, and my wife did her graduate work at USC, and so I like it when the Trojans win, but it's not the end of the world, and you do need to keep it in perspective. I I do wish more people would I know once I delivered a speech in brether County, Kentucky, and I was told that when I started the speech had to end no later than preferably exactly at 6:30pm not a minute later, because it was the night of the NCAA Basketball Championship, and the Kentucky Wildcats were in the championship, and at 630 everyone was going to get up and leave and go home to watch the game. So I ended at 630 and literally, by 631 I timed it. The gym was empty and it was full to start with.   Matt Forbeck ** 06:02 People were probably, you know, counting down on their watches, just to make sure, right?   Speaker 1 ** 06:06 Oh, I'm sure they were. What do you do? It's, it is kind of fun. Well, so why did you decide to get started in games? What? What? What attracted to you, to it as a young person, much less later on?   Matt Forbeck ** 06:21 Well, I was, yeah, I was an awkward kid, kind of nerdy and, you know, glasses and asthma and all that kind of stuff. And games were the kind of thing where, if you didn't know how to interact with people, you could sit down at a table across them and you could practice. You can say, okay, we're all here. We've got this kind of a magic circle around us where we've agreed to take this one silly activity seriously for a short period of time, right? And it may be that you're having fun during that activity, but you know, there's, there's no reason that rolling dice or moving things around on a table should be taken seriously. It's all just for fun, right? But for that moment, you actually just like Las Vegas Exactly, right? When there's money on the line, it's different, but if you're just doing it for grins. You know, it was a good way for me to learn how to interact with people of all sorts and of different ages. And I really enjoyed playing the games, and I really wanted to be a writer, too. And a lot of these things interacted with story at a very basic level. So breaking in as a writer is tough, but it turned out breaking as a game designer, wasn't nearly his stuff, so I started out over there instead, because it was a very young field at the time, right? D and D is now 50 years old, so I've been doing this 35 years, which means I started around professionally and even doing it before that, I started in the period when the game and that industry were only like 10 or 15 years old, so yeah, weren't quite as much competition in those   Speaker 1 ** 07:43 days. I remember some of the early games that I did play, that I could play, were DOS based games, adventure. You're familiar with adventure? Yeah, oh, yeah. Then later, Zork and all that. And I still think those are fun games. And I the reason I like a lot of those kinds of games is they really make you think, which I think most games do, even though the video even the video games and so on, they they help your or can help your reactions, but they're designed by people who do try to make you think,   Matt Forbeck ** 08:15 yeah. I mean, we basically are designing puzzles for people to solve, even if they're story puzzles or graphic puzzles or sound puzzles or whatever, you know, even spatial puzzles. There the idea is to give somebody something fun that is intriguing to play with, then you end up coming with story and after that, because after a while, even the most most exciting mechanics get dull, right? I mean, you start out shooting spaceships, but you can only shoot spaceships for so long, or you start out playing Tetris, and you only put shapes together for so long before it doesn't mean anything that then you start adding in story to give people a reason to keep playing right and a reason to keep going through these things. And I've written a lot of video games over the years, basically with that kind of a philosophy, is give people nuggets of story, give them a plot to work their way through, and reward them for getting through different stages, and they will pretty much follow you through anything. It's amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 09:09 Is that true Dungeons and Dragons too?   Matt Forbeck ** 09:13 It is. All of the stories are less structured there. If you're doing a video game, you know you the team has a lot of control over you. Give the player a limited amount of control to do things, but if you're playing around a table with people, it's more of a cooperative kind of experience, where we're all kind of coming up with a story, the narrator or the Game Master, the Dungeon Master, sets the stage for everything, but then the players have a lot of leeway doing that, and they will always screw things up for you, too. No matter what you think is going to happen, the players will do something different, because they're individuals, and they're all amazing people. That's actually to me, one of the fun things about doing tabletop games is that, you know, the computer can only react in a limited number of ways, whereas a human narrator and actually change things quite drastically and roll. With whatever people come up with, and that makes it tremendous fun.   Speaker 1 ** 10:04 Do you think AI is going to enter into all that and maybe improve some of the   Matt Forbeck ** 10:09 old stuff? It's going to add your end to it, whether it's an ad, it's going to approve it as a large question. Yeah. So I've been ranting about AI quite a bit lately with my friends and family. But, you know, I think the problem with AI, it can be very helpful a lot of ways, but I think it's being oversold. And I think it's especially when it's being oversold for thing, for ways for people to replace writers and creative thinking, Yeah, you know, you're taking the fun out of everything. I mean, the one thing I like to say is if, if you can't be bothered to write this thing that you want to communicate to me, I'm not sure why I should be bothered to read this thing well.   Speaker 1 ** 10:48 And I think that AI will will evolve in whatever way it does. But the fact of the matter is, So do people. And I think that, in fact, people are always going to be necessary to make the process really work? AI can only do and computers can only do so much. I mean, even Ray Kurzweil talks about the singularity when people and computer brains are married, but that still means that you're going to have the human element. So it's not all going to be the computer. And I'm not ready to totally buy into to what Ray says. And I used to work for Ray, so I mean, I know Ray Well, but, but the but the bottom line is, I think that, in fact, people are always going to be able to be kind of the, the mainstay of it, as long as we allow that, if we, if we give AI too much power, then over time, it'll take more power, and that's a problem, but that's up to us to deal with?   Matt Forbeck ** 11:41 No, I totally agree with that. I just think right now, there's a very large faction of people who it's in their economic interest to oversell these things. You know, people are making chips. They're building server farms. A lot of them are being transferred from people are doing blockchain just a few years ago, and they see it as the hot new thing. The difference is that AI actually has a lot of good uses. There's some amazing things will come out of llms and such. But I again, people are over the people are selling this to us. Are often over promising things, right?   Speaker 1 ** 12:11 Yeah, well, they're not only over promising but they're they're really misdirecting people. But the other side of it is that, that, in fact, AI as a concept and as a technology is here, and we have control over how we use it. I've said a couple times on this this podcast, and I've said to others, I remember when I first started hearing about AI, I heard about the the fact that teachers were bemoaning the pack, that kids were writing their papers just using AI and turning them in, and it wasn't always easy to tell whether it was something that was written by AI or was written by the student. And I come from a little bit different view than I think a lot of people do. And my view basically is, let the kids write it if with AI, if that's what they're going to do, but then what the teacher needs to do is to take one period, for example, and give every student in that class the opportunity to come up and defend whatever paper they have. And the real question is, can they defend the paper? Which means, have they really learned the subject, or are they just relying on AI,   Matt Forbeck ** 13:18 yeah, I agree with that. I think the trouble is, a lot of people, children, you know, who are developing their abilities and their morals about this stuff, they use it as just a way to complete the assignment, right? And many of them don't even read what they turn in, right, right? Just know that they've got something here that will so again, if you can't be bothered to read the thing that you manufactured, you're not learning anything about it,   Speaker 1 ** 13:39 which is why, if you are forced to defend it, it's going to become pretty obvious pretty fast, whether you really know it or not. Now, I've used AI on a number of occasions in various ways, but I use it to maybe give me ideas or prepare something that I then modify and shape. And I may even interact with AI a couple of times, but I'm definitely involved with the process all the way down the line, because it still has to be something that I'm responsible for.   Matt Forbeck ** 14:09 I agree. I mean, the whole point of doing these things is for people to connect with each other, right? I want to learn about the ideas you have in your head. I want to see how they jive with ones in my head. But if I'm just getting something that's being spit out by a machine and not you, and not being curated by you at any point, that doesn't seem very useful, right? So if you're the more involved people are in it, the more useful it is.   Speaker 1 ** 14:31 Well, I agree, and you know, I think again, it's a tool, and we have to decide how the tool is going to be used, which is always the way it ought to be. Right?   Matt Forbeck ** 14:42 Exactly, although sometimes it's large corporations deciding,   Speaker 1 ** 14:45 yeah, well, there's that too. Well, individuals,   Matt Forbeck ** 14:49 we get to make our own choices. Though you're right,   Speaker 1 ** 14:51 yes, and should Well, so, so when did you start bringing writing into what you. Did, and make that a really significant part of what you did?   Matt Forbeck ** 15:03 Well, pretty early on, I mean, I started doing one of the first things I did was a gaming zine, which was basically just a print magazine that was like, you know, 32 pages, black and white, about the different tabletop games. So we were writing those in the days, design and writing are very closely linked when it comes to tabletop games and even in video games. The trick of course is that designing a game and writing the rules are actually two separate sets of skills. So one of the first professional gig I ever had during writing was in games was some friends of mine had designed a game for a company called Mayfair games, which went on to do sellers of contain, which is a big, uh, entry level game, and but they needed somebody to write the rules, so they called me over, showed me how to play the game. I took notes and I I wrote it down in an easy to understand, clear way that people had just picked up the box. Could then pick it up and teach themselves how to play, right? So that was early on how I did it. But the neat thing about that is it also taught me to think about game design. I'm like, when I work on games, I think about, who is this game going to be for, and how are we going to teach it to them? Because if they can't learn the game, there's no point of the game at all, right?   Speaker 1 ** 16:18 And and so I'm right? I'm a firm believer that a lot of technical writers don't do a very good job of technical writing, and they write way over people's heads. I remember the first time I had to write, well, actually, I mentioned I worked for Kurzweil. I was involved with a project where Ray Kurzweil had developed his original omniprent optical character recognition system. And I and the National Federation of the Blind created with him a project to put machines around the country so that blind people could use them and give back to Ray by the time we were all done, recommendations as to what needed to go in the final first production model of the machine. So I had to write a training manual to teach people how to use it. And I wrote this manual, and I was always of the opinion that it had to be pretty readable and usable by people who didn't have a lot of technical knowledge. So I wrote the manual, gave it to somebody to read, and said, Follow the directions and and work with the machine and all that. And they did, and I was in another room, and they were playing with it for a couple of hours, and they came in and they said, I'm having a problem. I can't figure out how to turn off the machine. And it turns out that I had forgotten to put in the instruction to turn off the machine. And it wasn't totally trivial. There were steps you had to go through. It was a Data General Nova two computer, and you had to turn it off the right way and the whole system off the appropriate way, or you could, could mess everything up. So there was a process to doing it. So I wrote it in, and it was fine. But, you know, I've always been a believer that the textbooks are way too boring. Having a master's degree in physics, I am of the opinion that physics textbook writers, who are usually pretty famous and knowledgeable scientists, ought to include with all the text and the technical stuff they want to put in, they should put in stories about what they did in you bring people in, draw them into the whole thing, rather than just spewing out a bunch of technical facts.   Matt Forbeck ** 18:23 No, I agree. My my first calculus professor was a guy who actually explained how Newton and Leipzig actually came up with calculus, and then he would, you know, draw everything on the board and turn around say, and isn't that amazing? And you were, like, just absolutely enamored with the idea of how they had done these things, right? Yeah. And what you're doing there, when you, when you, when you give the instructions to somebody and say, try this out. That's a very big part of gaming, actually, because what we do this thing called play testing, where we take something before it's ready to be shown to the public, and we give it to other people and say, try this out. See how it works. Let me know when you're starting out of your first playing you play with like your family and friends and people will be brutal with you and give you hints about how you can improve things. But then, even when you get to the rules you're you send those out cold to people, or, you know, if you're a big company, you watch them through a two way mirror or one way mirror, and say, Hey, let's see how they react to everything. And then you take notes, and you try to make it better every time you go through. And when I'm teaching people to play games at conventions, for instance, I will often say to them, please ask questions if you don't understand anything, that doesn't mean you're dumb. Means I didn't explain it well enough, right? And my job as a person writing these rules is to explain it as well as I humanly can so it can't be misconstrued or misinterpreted. Now that doesn't mean you can correct everything. Somebody's always got like, Oh, I missed that sentence, you know, whatever. But you do that over and over so you can try to make it as clear and concise as possible, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 19:52 Well, you have somewhat of a built in group of people to help if you let your kids get involved. Involved. So how old are your kids?   Matt Forbeck ** 20:03 My eldest is 26 he'll be 27 in January. Marty is a game designer, actually works with me on the marble tabletop role playing game, and we have a new book coming out, game book for Minecraft, called Minecraft role for adventure, that's coming out on July 7, I think, and the rest of the kids are 23 we have 423 year olds instead of quadruplets, one of whom is actually going into game design as well, and the other says two are still in college, and one has moved off to the work in the woods. He's a very woodsy boy. Likes to do environmental education with people.   Speaker 1 ** 20:39 Wow. Well, see, but you, but you still have a good group of potential game designers or game critics anyway.   Matt Forbeck ** 20:47 Oh, we all play games together. We have a great time. We do weekly game nights here. Sometimes they're movie nights, sometimes they're just pizza nights, but we shoot for game and pizza   Speaker 1 ** 20:56 if we get lucky and your wife goes along with all this too.   Matt Forbeck ** 21:00 She does. She doesn't go to the game conventions and stuff as much, and she's not as hardcore of a gamer, but she likes hanging out with the kids and doing everything with us. We have a great time.   Speaker 1 ** 21:10 That's that's pretty cool. Well, you, you've got, you've got to build an audience of some sorts, and that's neat that a couple of them are involved in it as well. So they really like what dad does, yeah,   Matt Forbeck ** 21:23 yeah. We, I started taking them each to conventions, which are, you know, large gatherings gamers in real life. The biggest one is Gen Con, which happens in Indianapolis in August. And last year, I think, we had 72,000 people show up. And I started taking the kids when they were 10 years old, and my wife would come up with them then. And, you know, 10 years old is a lot. 72,000 people is a lot for a 10 year old. So she can mention one day and then to a park the next day, you know, decompress a lot, and then come back on Saturday and then leave on Sunday or whatever, so that we didn't have them too over stimulated. But they really grown to love it. I mean, it's part of our annual family traditions in the summer, is to go do these conventions and play lots of games with each other and meet new people too well.   Speaker 1 ** 22:08 And I like the way you put it. The games are really puzzles, which they are, and it's and it's fun. If people would approach it that way, no matter what the game is, they're, they're aspects of puzzles involved in most everything that has to do with the game, and that's what makes it so fun.   Matt Forbeck ** 22:25 Exactly, no. The interesting thing is, when you're playing with other people, the other people are changing the puzzles from their end that you have to solve on your end. And sometimes the puzzle is, how do I beat this person, or how do I defeat their strategy, or how do I make an alliance with somebody else so we can win? And it's really always very intriguing. There's so many different types of games. There's nowadays, there's like something like 50 to 100 new board games that come out and tabletop games every month, right? It's just like a fire hose. It's almost like, when I was starting out as a novelist, I would go into Barnes and Noble or borders and go, Oh my gosh, look at all these books. And now I do the same thing about games. It's just, it's incredible. Nobody, no one person, could keep up with all of them.   Speaker 1 ** 23:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah, way too much. I would love to explore playing more video games, but I don't. I don't own a lot of the technology, although I'm sure that there are any number of them that can be played on a computer, but we'll have to really explore and see if we can find some. I know there are some that are accessible for like blind people with screen readers. I know that some people have written a few, which is kind of cool. Yeah.   Matt Forbeck ** 23:36 And Xbox has got a new controller out that's meant to be accessible to large amount of people. I'm not sure, all the different aspects of it, but that's done pretty well, too   Speaker 1 ** 23:44 well. And again, it comes down to making it a priority to put all of that stuff in. It's not like it's magic to do. It's just that people don't know how to do it. But I also think something else, which is, if you really make the products more usable, let's say by blind people with screen readers. You may be especially if it's well promoted, surprised. I'm not you necessarily, but people might well be surprised as to how many others might take advantage of it so that they don't necessarily have to look at the screen, or that you're forced to listen as well as look in order to figure out what's going on or take actions.   Matt Forbeck ** 24:29 No, definitely true. It's, you know, people audio books are a massive thing nowadays. Games tend to fall further behind that way, but it's become this incredible thing that obviously, blind people get a great use out of but my wife is addicted to audio books now. She actually does more of those than she does reading. I mean, I technically think they're both reading. It's just one's done with yours and one's done with your eyes.   Speaker 1 ** 24:51 Yeah, there's but there's some stuff, whether you're using your eyes or your fingers and reading braille, there's something about reading a book that way that's. Even so a little bit different than listening to it. Yeah, and there's you're drawn in in some ways, in terms of actually reading that you're not necessarily as drawn into when you're when you're listening to it, but still, really good audio book readers can help draw you in, which is important, too,   Matt Forbeck ** 25:19 very much. So yeah, I think the main difference for reading, whether it's, you know, again, through Braille or through traditional print, is that you can stop. You can do it at your own pace. You can go back and look at things very easily, or read or check things, read things very easily. That you know, if you're reading, if you're doing an audio book, it just goes on and it's straight on, boom, boom, boom, pace. You can say, Wait, I'm going to put this down here. What was that thing? I remember back there? It was like three pages back, but it's really important, let me go check that right.   Speaker 1 ** 25:50 There are some technologies that allow blind people and low vision people and others, like people with dyslexia to use an audio book and actually be able to navigate two different sections of it. But it's not something that is generally available to the whole world, at least to the level that it is for blind people. But I can, I can use readers that are made to be able to accept the different formats and go back and look at pages, go back and look at headings, and even create bookmarks to bookmark things like you would normally by using a pen or a pencil or something like that. So there are ways to do some of that. So again, the technology is making strides.   Matt Forbeck ** 26:37 That's fantastic. Actually, it's wonderful. Just, yeah, it's great. I actually, you know, I lost half the vision of my right eye during back through an autoimmune disease about 13 years ago, and I've always had poor vision. So I'm a big fan of any kind of way to make things easier,   Speaker 1 ** 26:54 like that. Well, there, there are things that that are available. It's pretty amazing. A guy named George curser. Curser created a lot of it years ago, and it's called the DAISY format. And the whole idea behind it is that you can actually create a book. In addition to the audio tracks, there are XML files that literally give you the ability to move and navigate around the book, depending on how it's created, as final level as you choose.   Matt Forbeck ** 27:25 Oh, that's That's amazing. That's fantastic. I'm actually really glad to hear that.   Speaker 1 ** 27:28 So, yeah, it is kind of fun. So there's a lot of technology that's that's doing a lot of different sorts of things and and it helps. But um, so for you, in terms of dealing with, with the games, you've, you've written games, but you've, you've actually written some novels as well, right?   Matt Forbeck ** 27:50 Yeah, I've got like 30, it depends on how you count a novel, right? Okay, like some of my books are to pick a path books, right? Choose Your Own Adventure type stuff. So, but I've got 35 traditional novels written or more, I guess, now, I lost track a while ago, and probably another dozen of these interactive fiction books as well. So, and I like doing those. I've also written things like Marvel encyclopedias and Avengers encyclopedias and all sorts of different pop culture books. And, you know, I like playing in different worlds. I like writing science fiction, fantasy, even modern stuff. And most of it, for me comes down to telling stories, right? If you like to tell stories, you can tell stories through a game or book or audio play or a TV show or a comic, or I've done, you know, interactive museum, games and displays, things like that. The main thing is really a story. I mean, if you're comfortable sitting down at a bar and having a drink with somebody, doesn't have to be alcohol, just sitting down and telling stories with each other for fun. That's where the core of it all is really   Speaker 1 ** 28:58 right. Tell me about interactive fiction book.   Matt Forbeck ** 29:01 Sure, a lot of these are basically just done, like flow charts, kind of like the original Zork and adventure that you were talking about where you I actually, I was just last year, I brought rose Estes, who's the inventor of the endless quest books, which were a cross between Dungeons and Dragons, and choose your own adventure books. She would write the whole thing out page by page on a typewriter, and then, in order to shuffle the pages around so that people wouldn't just read straight through them, she'd throw them all up in the air and then just put them back in whatever order they happen to be. But essentially, you read a section of a book, you get to the end, and it gives you a choice. Would you like to go this way or that way? Would you like to go beat up this goblin? Or would you like to make friends with this warrior over here? If you want to do one of these things, go do page xx, right? Got it. So then you turn to that page and you go, boom, some, actually, some of the endless quest books I know were turned into audio books, right? And I actually, I. Um, oddly, have written a couple Dungeons and Dragons, interactive books, audio books that have only been released in French, right? Because there's a company called Looney l, u n, i, i that has this little handheld device that's for children, that has an A and a B button and a volume button. And you, you know, you get to the point that says, if you want to do this, push a, if you want to do that, push B, and the kids can go through these interactive stories and and, you know, there's ones for clue and Dungeons and Dragons and all sorts of other licenses, and some original stories too. But that way there's usually, like, you know, it depends on the story, but sometimes there's, like, 10 to 20 different endings. A lot of them are like, Oh no, you've been killed. Go back to where you started, right? And if you're lucky, the longer ones are, the more fun ones. And you get to, you know, save the kingdom and rescue the people and make good friends and all that good stuff,   Michael Hingson ** 30:59 yeah, and maybe fall in love with the princess or Prince.   Matt Forbeck ** 31:02 Yeah, exactly right. It all depends on the genre and what you're working in. But the idea is to give people some some choices over how they want the story to go. You're like, Well, do you want to investigate this dark, cold closet over here, or would you rather go running outside and playing around? And some of them can seem like very innocent choices, and other ones are like, well, uh, 10 ton weight just fell on. You go back to the last thing.   Speaker 1 ** 31:23 So that dark hole closet can be a good thing or a bad thing,   Matt Forbeck ** 31:28 exactly. And the trick is to make the deaths the bad endings, actually just as entertaining as anything else, right? And then people go, Well, I got beat, and I gotta go back and try that again. So yeah, if they just get the good ending all the way through, they often won't go back and look at all the terrible ones. So it's fun to trick them sometimes and have them go into terrible spots. And I like to put this one page in books too that sometimes says, How did you get here? You've been cheating there. This book, this page, is actually not led to from any other part of the book. You're just flipping   Speaker 1 ** 31:59 through. Cheater, cheater book, do what you   Matt Forbeck ** 32:04 want, but if you want to play it the right way, go back.   Speaker 1 ** 32:07 Kid, if you want to play the game. Yeah, exactly. On the other hand, some people are nosy.   Matt Forbeck ** 32:15 You know, I was always a kid who would poke around and wanted to see how things were, so I'm sure I would have found that myself but absolutely related, you know,   Speaker 1 ** 32:23 yeah, I had a general science teacher who brought in a test one day, and he gave it to everyone. And so he came over to me because it was, it was a printed test. He said, Well, I'm not going to give you the test, because the first thing it says is, read all the instructions, read, read the test through before you pass it, before you take it. And he said, most people won't do that. And he said, I know you would. And the last question on the test is answer, only question one.   Matt Forbeck ** 32:55 That's great. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 32:57 that was cute. And he said, I know that. I that there's no way you would, would would fall for that, because you would say, Okay, let's read the instructions and then read the whole test. That's what it said. And the instruction were, just read the whole test before you start. And people won't do that.   Matt Forbeck ** 33:13 No, they'll go through, take the whole thing. They get there and go, oh, did I get there? Was a, there's a game publisher. I think it was Steve Jackson Games, when they were looking for people, write for them, or design stuff for them, or submit stuff to them, would have something toward the end of the instructions that would say, put like a the letter seven, or put seven a on page one right, and that way they would know if you had read the instructions, if you hadn't bothered to Read the instructions, they wouldn't bother reading anything else.   Speaker 1 ** 33:42 Yeah, which is fair, because the a little harsh, well, but, but, you know, we often don't learn enough to pay attention to details. I know that when I was taking physics in college, that was stressed so often it isn't enough to get the numbers right. If you don't get the units right as well. Then you're, you're not really paying attention to the details. And paying attention to the details is so important.   Matt Forbeck ** 34:07 That's how they crash from those Mars rovers, wasn't it? They somebody messed up the units, but going back and forth between metric and, yeah, and Imperial and, well, you know, it cost somebody a lot of money at one point. Yeah. Yeah. What do you   Speaker 1 ** 34:21 this is kind of the way it goes. Well, tell me, yeah. Well, they do matter, no matter what people think, sometimes they do matter. Well, tell me about the Diana Jones award. First of all, of course, the logical question for many people is, who is Diana Jones? Yeah, Diana Jones doesn't exist, right? That's There you go. She's part game somewhere? No, no, it doesn't be in a game somewhere.   Matt Forbeck ** 34:43 Then now there's actually an author named Diana Wynne Jones, who's written some amazing fantasy stories, including Howell's Moving Castle, which has turned into a wonderful anime movie, but it has nothing to do with her or any other person. Because originally, the Diana Jones award came about. Because a friend of mine, James Wallace, had somehow stumbled across a trophy that fell into his hands, and it was a pub trivia trophy that used to be used between two different gaming companies in the UK, and one of those was TSR, UK, the United Kingdom department. And at one point, the company had laid off everybody in that division just say, Okay, we're closing it all down. So the guys went and burned a lot of the stuff that they had, including a copy of the Indiana Jones role playing game, and the only part of the logo that was left said Diana Jones. And for some reason, they put this in a in a fiberglass or Plexiglas pyramid, put it on a base, a wooden base, and it said the Diana Jones award trophy, right? And this was the trophy that they used they passed back and forth as a joke for their pub trivia contest. Fell into James's hands, and he decided, You know what, we're going to give this out for the most excellent thing in gaming every year. And we've now done this. This will be 25 years this summer. We do it at the Wednesday night before Gen Con, which starts on Thursday, usually at the end of July or early August. And as part of that, actually, about five years ago, we started, one of the guys suggested we should do something called the emerging designers program. So we actually became a 501, c3, so we could take donations. And now we take four designers every year, fly them in from wherever they happen to be in the world, and put them up in a hotel, give them a badge the show, introduce them to everybody, give them an honorarium so they can afford to skip work for a week and try to help launch their careers. I mean, these are people that are in the first three years of their design careers, and we try to work mostly with marginalized or et cetera, people who need a little bit more representation in the industry too. Although we can select anybody, and it's been really well received, it's been amazing. And there's a group called the bundle of holding which sells tabletop role playing game PDFs, and they've donated 10s of 1000s of dollars every year for us to be able to do this. And it's kind of funny, because I never thought I'd be end up running a nonprofit, but here I'm just the guy who writes checks to the different to the emerging designer program. Folks are much more tied into that community that I am. But one of the real reasons I wanted to do something like that or be involved with it, because if you wander around with these conventions and you notice that it starts getting very gray after a while, right? It's you're like, oh, there's no new people coming in. It's all older people. I we didn't I didn't want us to all end up as like the Grandpa, grandpa doing the HO model railroad stuff in the basement, right? This dying hobby that only people in their 60s and 70s care about. So bringing in fresh people, fresh voices, I think, is very important, and hopefully we're doing some good with that. It's been a lot of fun either way.   Speaker 1 ** 37:59 Well, I have you had some success with it? Yeah, we've   Matt Forbeck ** 38:02 had, well, let's see. I think we've got like 14 people. We've brought in some have already gone on to do some amazing things. I mean, it's only been a few years, so it's hard to tell if they're gonna be legends in their time, but again, having them as models for other people to look at and say, Oh, maybe I could do that. That's been a great thing. The other well, coincidentally, Dungeons and Dragons is having its best 10 year streak in its history right now, and probably is the best selling it's ever been. So coinciding with that, we've seen a lot more diversity and a lot more people showing up to these wonderful conventions and playing these kinds of games. There's also been an advent of this thing called actual play, which is the biggest one, is a group called Critical Role, which is a whole bunch of voice actors who do different cartoons and video games and such, and they play D and D with each other, and then they record the games, and they produce them on YouTube and for podcasts. And these guys are amazing. There's a couple of other ones too, like dimension 20 and glass cannon, the critical role guys actually sold out a live performance at Wembley Arena last summer. Wow. And dimension. Dimension 20 sold out Madison Square Garden. I'm like, if you'd have told me 20 years ago that you know you could sell out an entire rock stadium to have people watch you play Dungeons and Dragons, I would have laughed. I mean, there's no way it would have been possible. But now, you know, people are very much interested in this. It's kind of wild, and it's, it's fun to be a part of that. At some level,   Speaker 1 ** 39:31 how does the audience get drawn in to something like that? Because they are watching it, but there must be something that draws them in.   Matt Forbeck ** 39:39 Yeah, part of it is that you have some really skilled some actors are very funny, very traumatic and very skilled at improvisation, right? So the the dungeon master or Game Master will sit there and present them with an idea or whatever. They come up each with their own characters. They put them in wonderful, strong voices. They kind of inhabit the roles in a way that an actor. A really top level actor would, as opposed to just, you know, me sitting around a table with my friends. And because of that, they become compelling, right? My Marty and my his wife and I were actually at a convention in Columbus, Ohio last weekend, and this group called the McElroy family, actually, they do my brother, my brother and me, which is a hit podcast, but they also do an actual play podcast called The Adventure zone, where they just play different games. And they are so funny. These guys are just some of the best comedians you'll ever hear. And so them playing, they actually played our Marvel game for a five game session, or a five podcast session, or whatever, and it was just stunningly fun to listen to. People are really talented mess around with something that we built right it's very edifying to see people enjoying something that you worked on.   Speaker 1 ** 40:51 Do you find that the audiences get drawn in and they're actually sort of playing the game along, or as well? And may disagree with what some of the choices are that people make?   Matt Forbeck ** 41:02 Oh, sure. But I mean, if the choices are made from a point of the character that's been expressed, that people are following along and they they already like the character, they might go, Oh, those mean, you know that guy, there are some characters they love to hate. There are some people they're they're angry at whatever, but they always really appreciate the actors. I mean, the actors have become celebrities in their own right. They've they sell millions of dollars for the comic books and animated TV shows and all these amazing things affiliated with their actual play stuff. And it's, I think it, part of it is because, it's because it makes the games more accessible. Some people are intimidated by these games. So it's not really, you know, from a from a physical disability kind of point. It's more of a it makes it more accessible for people to be nervous, to try these things on their own, or don't really quite get how they work. They can just sit down and pop up YouTube or their podcast program and listen into people doing a really good job at it. The unfortunate problem is that the converse of that is, when you're watching somebody do that good of a job at it, it's actually hard to live up to that right. Most people who play these games are just having fun with their friends around a table. They're not performing for, you know, 10s of 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s of people. So there's a different level of investments, really, at that point, and some people have been known to be cowed by that, by that, or daunted by that.   Speaker 1 ** 42:28 You work on a lot of different things. I gather at the same time. What do you what do you think about that? How do you like working on a lot of different projects? Or do you, do you more focus on one thing, but you've got several things going on, so you'll work on something for one day, then you'll work on something else. Or how do you how do you do it all?   Matt Forbeck ** 42:47 That's a good question. I would love to just focus on one thing at a time. Now, you know the trouble is, I'm a freelancer, right? I don't set my I don't always get to say what I want to work on. I haven't had to look for work for over a decade, though, which has been great. People just come to me with interesting things. The trouble is that when you're a freelancer, people come in and say, Hey, let's work on this. I'm like, Yeah, tell me when you're ready to start. And you do that with like, 10 different people, and they don't always line up in sequence properly, right? Yeah? Sometimes somebody comes up and says, I need this now. And I'm like, Yeah, but I'm in the middle of this other thing right now, so I need to not sleep for another week, and I need to try to figure out how I'm going to put this in between other things I'm working on. And I have noticed that after I finish a project, it takes me about a day or three to just jump track. So if I really need to, I can do little bits here and there, but to just fully get my brain wrapped around everything I'm doing for a very complex project, takes me a day or three to say, Okay, now I'm ready to start this next thing and really devote myself to it. Otherwise, it's more juggling right now, having had all those kids, probably has prepared me to juggle. So I'm used to having short attention span theater going on in my head at all times, because I have to jump back and forth between things. But it is. It's a challenge, and it's a skill that you develop over time where you're like, Okay, I can put this one away here and work on this one here for a little while. Like today, yeah, I knew I was going to talk to you, Michael. So I actually had lined up another podcast that a friend of mine wanted to do with me. I said, Let's do them on the same day. This way I'm not interrupting my workflow so much, right? Makes sense? You know, try to gang those all together and the other little fiddly bits I need to do for administration on a day. Then I'm like, Okay, this is not a day off. It's just a day off from that kind of work. It's a day I'm focusing on this aspect of what I do.   Speaker 1 ** 44:39 But that's a actually brings up an interesting point. Do you ever take a day off or do what do you do when you're when you deciding that you don't want to do gaming for a while?   Matt Forbeck ** 44:49 Yeah, I actually kind of terrible. But you know, you know, my wife will often drag me off to places and say we're going to go do this when. Yes, we have a family cabin up north in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan that we go to. Although, you know, my habit there is, I'll work. I'll start work in the morning on a laptop or iPad until my battery runs out, and then I shut it down, put on a charger, and then I go out and swim with everybody for the rest of the day. So it depends if I'm on a deadline or not, and I'm almost always on a deadline, but there are times I could take weekends off there. One of the great things of being a freelancer, though, and especially being a stay at home father, which is part of what I was doing, is that when things come up during the middle of the week, I could say, oh, sure, I can be flexible, right? The trouble is that I have to pay for that time on my weekends, a lot of the time, so I don't really get a lot of weekends off. On the other hand, I'm not I'm not committed to having to work every day of the week either, right? I need to go do doctor appointments, or we want to run off to Great America and do a theme park or whatever. I can do that anytime I want to. It's just I have to make up the time at other points during the week. Does your wife work? She does. She was a school social worker for many years, and now as a recruiter at a local technical college here called Black Hawk tech. And she's amazing, right? She's fantastic. She has always liked working. The only time she stopped working was for about a year and a half after the quads were born, I guess, two years. And that was the only time I ever took a job working with anybody else, because we needed the health insurance, so I we always got it through her. And then when she said, Well, I'm gonna stay home with the kids, which made tons of sense, I went and took a job with a video game company up in Madison, Wisconsin called Human Head Studios for about 18 months, 20 months. And then the moment she told me she was thinking about going back to work, I'm like, Oh, good, I can we can Cobra for 18 months and pay for our own health insurance, and I'm giving notice this week, and, you know, we'll work. I left on good terms that everybody. I still talk to them and whatever, but I very much like being my own boss and not worrying about what other people are going to tell me to do. I work with a lot of clients, which means I have a lot of people telling me what to do. But you know, if it turns out bad, I can walk I can walk away. If it turns out good, hopefully we get to do things together, like the the gig I've been working out with Marvel, I guess, has been going on for like, four years now, with pretty continuous work with them, and I'm enjoying every bit of it. They're great people to work with.   Speaker 1 ** 47:19 Now, you were the president of Pinnacle entertainment for a little while. Tell me about that.   Matt Forbeck ** 47:24 I was, that was a small gaming company I started up with a guy named Shane Hensley, who was another tabletop game designer. Our big game was something called Dead Lands, which was a Western zombie cowboy kind of thing. Oh gosh, Western horror. So. And it was pretty much a, you know, nobody was doing Western horror back in those days. So we thought, Oh, this is safe. And to give you an example of parallel development, we were six months into development, and another company, White Wolf, which had done a game called Vampire the Masquerade, announced that they were doing Werewolf the Wild West. And we're like, you gotta be kidding me, right? Fortunately, we still released our game three months before there, so everybody thought we were copying them, rather than the other way around. But the fact is, we were. We both just came up with the idea independently. Right? When you work in creative fields, often, if somebody wants to show you something, you say, I'd like to look at you have to sign a waiver first that says, If I do something like this, you can't sue me. And it's not because people are trying to rip you off. It's because they may actually be working on something similar, right already. Because we're all, you know, swimming in the same cultural pool. We're all, you know, eating the same cultural soup. We're watching or watching movies, playing games, doing whatever, reading books. And so it's not unusual that some of us will come up with similar ideas   Speaker 1 ** 48:45 well, and it's not surprising that from time to time, two different people are going to come up with somewhat similar concepts. So that's not a big surprise, exactly, but   Matt Forbeck ** 48:56 you don't want people getting litigious over it, like no, you don't be accused of ripping anybody off, right? You just want to be as upfront with people. With people. And I don't think I've ever actually seen somebody, at least in gaming, in tabletop games, rip somebody off like that. Just say, Oh, that's a great idea. We're stealing that it's easier to pay somebody to just say, Yes, that's a great idea. We'll buy that from you, right? As opposed to trying to do something unseemly and criminal?   Speaker 1 ** 49:24 Yeah, there's, there's something to be said for having real honor in the whole process.   Matt Forbeck ** 49:30 Yeah, I agree, and I think that especially if you're trying to have a long term career in any field that follows you, if you get a reputation for being somebody who plays dirty, nobody wants to play with you in the future, and I've always found it to be best to be as straightforward with people and honest, especially professionally, just to make sure that they trust you. Before my quadruplets were born, you could have set your clock by me as a freelancer, I never missed a deadline ever, and since then, I've probably it's a. Rare earth thing to make a deadline, because, you know, family stuff happens, and you know, there's just no controlling it. But whenever something does happen, I just call people up and say, hey, look, it's going to be another week or two. This is what's going on. And because I have a good reputation for completing the job and finishing quality work, they don't mind. They're like, Oh, okay, I know you're going to get this to me. You're not just trying to dodge me. So they're willing to wait a couple weeks if they need to, to get to get what they need. And I'm very grateful to them for that. And I'm the worst thing somebody can do is what do, what I call turtling down, which is when it's like, Oh no, I'm late. And then, you know, they cut off all communication. They don't talk to anybody. They just kind of try to disappear as much as they can. And we all, all adults, understand that things happen in your life. It's okay. We can cut you some slack every now and then, but if you just try to vanish, that's not even possible.   Speaker 1 ** 50:54 No, there's a lot to be there's a lot to be said for trust and and it's so important, I think in most anything that we do, and I have found in so many ways, that there's nothing better than really earning someone's trust, and they earning your trust. And it's something I talk about in my books, like when live with a guide dog, live like a guide dog, which is my newest book, it talks a lot about trust, because when you're working with a guide dog, you're really building a team, and each member of the team has a specific job to do, and as the leader of the team, it's my job to also learn how to communicate with the other member of the team. But the reality is, it still comes down to ultimately, trust, because I and I do believe that dogs do love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is that people that dogs are much more open to trust, for the most part, unless they've just been totally traumatized by something, but they're more open to trust. And there's a lesson to be learned there. No, I   Matt Forbeck ** 52:03 absolutely agree with that. I think, I think most people in general are trustworthy, but as you say, a lot of them have trauma in their past that makes it difficult for them to open themselves up to that. So that's actually a pretty wonderful way to think about things. I like that,   Speaker 1 ** 52:17 yeah, well, I think that trust is is so important. And I know when I worked in professional sales, it was all about trust. In fact, whenever I interviewed people for jobs, I always asked them what they were going to sell, and only one person ever answered me the way. I really hoped that everybody would answer when I said, So, tell me what you're going to be selling. He said, The only thing I have to really sell is myself and my word, and nothing else. It really matters. Everything else is stuff. What you have is stuff. It's me selling myself and my word, and you have to, and I would expect you to back me up. And my response was, as long as you're being trustworthy, then you're going to get my backing all the way. And he was my most successful salesperson for a lot of reasons, because he got it.   Matt Forbeck ** 53:08 Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, I mean, I've worked with people sourcing different things too, for sales, and if you can rely on somebody to, especially when things go wrong, to come through for you. And to be honest with you about, you know, there's really that's a hard thing to find. If you can't depend on your sources for what you're building, then you can't depend on anything. Everything else falls apart.   Speaker 1 ** 53:29 It does. You've got to start at the beginning. And if people can't earn your trust, and you earn theirs, there's a problem somewhere, and it's just not going to work.   Matt Forbeck ** 53:39 Yeah, I just generally think people are decent and want to help. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've had issues. Car breaks down the road in Wisconsin. Here, if somebody's car goes in the ditch, everybody stops and just hauls them out. It's what you do when the quads were born, my stepmother came up with a sign up sheet, a booklet that she actually had spiral bound, that people could sign up every three three hours to help come over and feed and bathe, diaper, whatever the kids and we had 30 to 35 volunteers coming in every week. Wow, to help us out with that was amazing, right? They just each pick slots, feeding slots, and come in and help us out. I had to take the 2am feeding, and my wife had to take the 5am feeding by ourselves. But the rest of the week we had lots and lots of help, and we were those kids became the surrogate grandchildren for, you know, 30 to 35 women and couples really, around the entire area, and it was fantastic. Probably couldn't have survived   Speaker 1 ** 54:38 without it. And the other part about it is that all those volunteers loved it, because you all appreciated each other, and it was always all about helping and assisting.   Matt Forbeck ** 54:48 No, we appreciate them greatly. But you know every most of them, like 99% of them, whatever were women, 95 women who are ready for grandchildren and didn't have them. Had grandchildren, and they weren't in the area, right? And they had that, that love they wanted to share, and they just loved the opportunity to do it. It was, I'm choking up here talking about such a great time for us in   Speaker 1 ** 55:11 that way. Now I'm assuming today, nobody has to do diaper duty with the quads, right?   Matt Forbeck ** 55:16 Not until they have their own kids. Just checking, just checking, thankfully, think we're that is long in our past,   Speaker 1 ** 55:23 is it? Is it coming fairly soon for anybody in the future?   Matt Forbeck ** 55:27 Oh, I don't know. That's really entirely up to them. We would love to have grandchildren, but you know, it all comes in its own time. They're not doing no well. I, one of my sons is married, so it's possible, right? And one of my other sons has a long term girlfriend, so that's possible, but, you know, who knows? Hopefully they're they have them when they're ready. I always say, if you have kids and you want them, that's great. If you have, if you don't have kids and you don't want them, that's great. It's when you cross the two things that,   Speaker 1 ** 55:57 yeah, trouble, yeah, that's that is, that is a problem. But you really like working with yourself. You love the entre

A shocking new study from Rutgers University's Network Contagion Research Institute reveals a disturbing shift: what was once taboo—openly endorsing political violence—is now gaining acceptance. Nearly half of surveyed liberals said assassination could be justified against figures like Elon Musk or Donald Trump. In this episode, we examine how cultural glorification, media narratives, and weak accountability have fueled what experts call an “assassination culture.” From activists celebrating violent figures to mainstream outlets downplaying political killings, we break down how America arrived at this dangerous moment—and why speaking truth calmly, firmly, and with conviction is now more vital than ever.

What happens when violent rhetoric stops being taboo and becomes mainstream? A shocking Rutgers University study reveals just how far the extreme left has gone—nearly half of respondents justifying assassination against public figures like Donald Trump and Elon Musk. From FBI director James Comey's veiled “86” threat, to Portland agitators rolling out guillotines, to online mobs celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk, the evidence is overwhelming: political violence is being normalized. In this episode, we expose the numbers, the culture behind them, and the chilling silence—or outright encouragement—of left-wing leaders who refuse to condemn it. This isn't just politics. It's a fight for whether America remains a nation of debate, or a nation ruled by fear.

A Rutgers University study warns of a disturbing shift—political violence is no longer taboo, but increasingly normalized. From the glorification of radical figures to activists openly justifying assassinations of public leaders, a dangerous culture is taking root on the left. In this episode, we break down how years of tolerated unrest, weak prosecution, and censorship of conservative voices have led to what experts now call an “assassination culture.” We revisit the tragic killing of Charlie Kirk, explore why free speech threatens authoritarian movements, and reveal why this battle is no longer about protests alone—it's about whether America will choose debate or descend into violence.

This episode features poet Lynne Shapiro (0:2:29) of Hoboken, New Jersey, who speaks with Ann about her collection To Set Right, published in 2021 by WordTech Editions, and about her work in progress. Lynne's work holds space for the life we can and cannot see. She talks with Ann about the importance of returns, learning to see, and the persistence of nature, and reminds us that, to truly know a place, we must look upward and study the sky.In this Ask Randi segment, Dr. Randi Eckel (0:33:10) answers a question from Eilika about native alternatives to the ecologically harmful Barberry (Berberis thunbergii), particularly options that still provide distinctive purple or burgundy foliage with vibrant red stems. Later, we debut our new segment, Five Questions With. Kim sits down with Chris Martine, (0:45:35), who is the President-Elect of the Botanical Society of America and the David Burpee Professor of Plant Genetics and Research at Bucknell University. He shares stories behind his newly re-published field guides from the NJ Forest Service, Trees of New Jersey and the Mid-Atlantic States, and Shrubs and Vines of New Jersey and the Mid-Atlantic States. In our final segment, Kim and Ann talk with Jean Epiphan, (1:03:05) Associate Professor of Ecology at Rutgers University and the newly appointed arborist on the NPSNJ board. Jean reminds us that the future of our forests begins in our own backyards, underscoring how true forest stewardship starts with the everyday choices we make as caretakers of our own land. Jean is also a Coordinator for Region 1 (Northern NJ) for the Rutgers Environmental Steward program with an extensive background in forestry, ecology, and landscape restoration, as well as garden design, landscape management, tree care, and land stewardship.

The history of sugar is a complicated one. Once available to only the rich and powerful, sugar now shows up in everything from cereals and soups, to cigarettes and body scrubs. It is known to both have medicinal qualities and to contribute to a variety of health problems. This hour we trace the history of sugar and discuss how the sugar industry may be driving a global addiction to the sweet substance. GUESTS: Marc Aronson: Associate Professor at Rutgers University and co-author of Sugar Changed the World: A Story of Magic, Spice, Slavery, Freedom, and Science Gary Taubes: Investigative science and health journalist and author of The Case Against Sugar: Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It Kathleen DesMaisons: Expert in chemical dependency treatment and author several books including Potatoes Not Prozac: Solutions for Sugar Sensitivity The Colin McEnroe Show is available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode! Subscribe to The Noseletter, an email compendium of merriment, secrets, and ancient wisdom brought to you by The Colin McEnroe Show. Join the conversation on Facebook and Twitter. Colin McEnroe and Chion Wolf contributed to this show, which originally aired on January 9, 2018.Support the show: http://www.wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Online threats amplified by AI — from doxxing and deepfakes to coordinated influence operations — are collapsing the time between rumor and real-world risk. Expect pressure points across campuses and big cities, immigration enforcement and politically charged events, with protests only one piece of the picture. For police leaders, the task is to detect signals sooner, verify and communicate faster, and protect officers and targets while safeguarding First Amendment rights. On this week's Policing Matters podcast, host Jim Dudley speaks with Alex Goldenberg, director of intelligence at Narravance, senior adviser to the Network Contagion Research Institute and a fellow at Rutgers University. He investigates online extremism, foreign influence and child safety threats, advises lawmakers and practitioners, and helps platforms and nonprofits remove threat actors at scale. His work translates narrative and behavioral intelligence into practical steps for protest preparedness and officer safety. About our sponsor This episode of the Policing Matters podcast is sponsored by OfficerStore. Learn more about getting the gear you need at prices you can afford by visiting OfficerStore.com.

Our guest this time is Aaron Wolpoff who has spent his professional career as a marketing strategist and consultant to help companies develop strategic brands and enhance their audience growth. He owns the marketing firm, Double Zebra. He tells us about the name and how his company has helped a number of large and small companies grow and better serve their clients.   Aaron grew up in the San Diego area. He describes himself as a curious person and he says he always has been such. He loves to ask questions. He says as a child he was somewhat quiet, but always wanted to know more. He received his Bachelor's degree in marketing from the University of California at San Diego. After working for a firm for some four and a half years he and his wife moved up to the bay area in Northern California where attended San Francisco State University and obtained a Master's degree in Business.   In addition to his day job functioning as a business advisor and strategist Aaron also hosts a podcast entitled, We Fixed it, You're Welcome. I had the honor to appear on his podcast to discuss Uber and some of its accessibility issues especially concerning access by blind persons who use guide dogs to Uber's fleet. His podcast is quite fascinating and one I hope you will follow.   Aaron provides us in this episode many business insights. We talk about a number of challenges and successes marketing has brought to the business arena. I hope you like what Aaron offers.     About the Guest:   Aaron Wolpoff is a seasoned marketing strategist and communications consultant with a track record of positioning companies, products, and thought leadership for maximum impact. Throughout his career, Aaron has been somewhat of a trendspotter, getting involved in early initiatives around online banking, SaaS, EVs, IoT, and now AI, His ability to bridge complex industry dynamics and technology-driven solutions underscores his role as a forward-thinking consultant, podcaster, and business advisor, committed to enhancing organizational effectiveness and fostering strategic growth.   As the driving force behind the Double Zebra marketing company, Aaron excels in identifying untapped marketing assets, refining brand narratives, and orchestrating strategic pivots from paid advertising to organic audience growth. His insights have guided notable campaigns for consumer brands, technology firms, and professional service providers, always with a keen eye for differentiating messages that resonate deeply with target audiences. In addition to his strategic marketing expertise, Aaron hosts the Top 20 business management podcast, We Fixed It, You're Welcome, known for its sharp, humorous analysis of major corporate challenges and missteps. Each episode brings listeners inside complex business scenarios, unfolding like real-time case studies where Aaron and his panel of experts dissect high-profile decisions, offering insightful and actionable solutions. His ability to distill complex business issues into relatable, engaging discussions has garnered widespread acclaim and a dedicated following among executives and decision-makers.   Ways to connect with Aaron:   Marketing company: https://doublezebra.com Podcast: https://wefixeditpod.com LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/marketingaaron     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi there, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to chat with Aaron Wolpoff, who is a marketing strategist and expert in a lot of different ways. I've read his bio, which you can find in the show notes. It seems to me that he is every bit as much of an expert is his bio says he is, but we're going to find out over the next hour or so for sure. We'll we'll not pick on him too much, but, but nevertheless, it's fun to be here. Aaron, so I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. I'm glad you're here, and we're glad that we get a chance to do   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 01:58 this. Thanks, Michael, thanks for having me. You're gonna grill me for an hour, huh?   Michael Hingson ** 02:04 Oh, sure. Why not? You're used to it. You're a marketing expert.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 02:08 That's what we do. Yeah, we're always, uh, scrutiny for one thing or another.   Michael Hingson ** 02:13 I remember, I think it was back in was it 82 or 1982 or 1984 when they had the big Tylenol incident. You remember that? You know about   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 02:25 that? I do? Yeah, there's a Netflix documentary happening right now. Is there? Well, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 02:31 a bottle of Tylenol was, for those who don't know, contaminated and someone died from it. But the manufacturer of Tylenol, the CEO the next day, just got right out in front of it and said what they were going to do about removing all Tylenol from the shelves until it could be they could all be examined and so on. Just did a number of things. It was a wonderful case, it seemed to me, for how to deal with a crisis when it came up. And I find that all too many companies and organizations don't necessarily know how to do that. Do they now?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 03:09 And a lot of times they operate in crisis mode. That's the default. And no one likes to be around that, you know. So that's, I guess, step one is dealing even you know, deal with a crisis when it comes up, and make sure that your your day to day is not crisis fire as much as possible,   Michael Hingson ** 03:26 but know how to deal with a crisis, which is kind of the issue, and that's, that's what business continuity, of course, is, is really all about. I spoke at the Business Continuity Institute hybrid conference in London last October, and as one of the people who asked me to come and speak, explained, business continuity, people are the what if people that are always looking at, how do we deal with any kind of an emergency that comes up in an organization, knowing full well that nobody's really going to listen to them until there's really an emergency, and then, of course, they're indispensable, but The rest of the time they're not for   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 04:02 sure. Yeah, it's definitely that, you know, good. You bring up a good point about knowing how to deal with a crisis, because it will, it, will you run a business for long enough you have a company, no matter how big, eventually something bad is going to happen, and it's Tylenol. Was, is pre internet or, you know, we oh, yeah, good while ago they had time to formulate a response and craft it and and do a well presented, you know, public reassurance nowadays it's you'd have five seconds before you have to get something out there.   Michael Hingson ** 04:35 Well, even so, the CEO did it within, like, a day or so, just immediately came out and said what, what was initially going to be done. Of course, there was a whole lot more to it, but still, he got right out in front of it and dealt with it in a calm way, which I think is really important for businesses to do, and and I do find that so many don't and they they deal with so many different kinds of stress. Horrible things in the world, and they create more than they really should about fear anyway,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 05:07 yeah, for sure, and now I think that Tylenol wasn't ultimately responsible. I haven't watched to the end, but if I remember correctly, but sometimes these crisis, crises that companies find themselves embroiled in, are self perpetuated? Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 05:23 Well, Tylenol wasn't responsible. Somebody did it. Somebody put what, cyanide or something in into a Tylenol bottle. So they weren't responsible, but they sure dealt with it, which is the important thing. And you know, they're, they're still with us. Yeah?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 05:38 No, they dealt with it. Well, their sales are great, everyday household product. No one can dispute it. But what I say is, with the with the instantaneousness of reach to your to your public, and to you know, consumers and public at large, a lot of crises are, can be self perpetuated, like you tweet the wrong thing, or is it called a tweet anymore? I don't know, but you know, you post something a little bit a little bit out of step with what people are think about you or thinking in general, and and now, all of a sudden, you're in the middle of something that you didn't want to be in the middle of, as a company well,   Michael Hingson ** 06:15 and I also noticed that, like the media will, so often they hear something, they report it, and they haven't necessarily checked to see the facts behind it, only to find out within an hour or two that what they reported was wrong. And they helped to sometimes promote the fear and promote the uncertainty, rather than waiting a little bit until they get all the information reasonably correct. And of course, part of the problem is they say, well, but everybody else is going to report it. So each station says everybody else is going to report it, so we have to keep up. Well, I'm not so sure about that all the time. Oh, that's very true, too, Michael, especially with, you know, off brand media outlets I'll spend with AI like, I'll be halfway through an article now, and I'll see something that's extremely generated and and I'll realize I've just wasted a whole bunch of time on a, you know, on a fake article, yeah, yeah, yeah, way, way too much. But even the mainstream media will report things very quickly to get it out there, but they don't necessarily have all the data, right. And I understand you can't wait for days to deal with things, but you should wait at least a little bit to make sure you've got data enough to report in a cogent way. And it just doesn't always happen.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 07:33 Yeah, well, I don't know who the watch keepers of that are. I'm not a conspiracy theorist in that way by any means?   Michael Hingson ** 07:41 No, no, it isn't a conspiracy. But yeah,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 07:44 yeah, no, no, I know, but it's again. I think it goes back to that tight the shortness of the cycle, like again. Tylenol waited a day to respond back in the day, which is great. But now, would you have you know, if Tylenol didn't say   Michael Hingson ** 07:59 anything for a day. If they were faced with a similar situation, people would vilify them and say, Well, wait, you waited a day to tell us something we wanted it in the first 30 seconds, yeah, oh, yeah. And that makes it more difficult, but I would hope that Tylenol would say, yeah. We waited a day because we were getting our facts together. 30 seconds is great in the media, but that doesn't work for reality, and in most cases, it doesn't. But yeah, I know what you're saying,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 08:30 Yeah, but the appetite in the 24 hour news cycle, if people are hungry for new more information, so it does push news outlets, media outlets into let's respond as quick as possible and figure out the facts along the way. Yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 08:46 Well, for fun, why don't you tell us about sort of the early era and growing up, and how you got to doing the sorts of things that you're doing now. Well, I grew up in San Diego, California. I best weather in the country. I don't care what anyone says, Yeah,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 09:03 you can't really beat it. No, I don't think anyone's gonna debate you on it. They call it the sunshine tax, because things cost a lot out here, but they do, you know, he grew up here, you put up with it. But yeah, so I grew up, grew up San Diego, college, San Diego. Life in San Diego, I've been elsewhere. I've traveled. I've seen some of the world. I like it. I've always wanted to come back, but I grew up really curious. I read a lot, I asked a lot of questions. And I also wanted, wanting to know, well, I want to know. Well, I wanted to know a lot of things about a lot of things, and I also was really scared. Is the wrong word, but I looked up to adults when I was a kid, and I didn't want to be put in a position where I was expected to know something that I didn't know. So it led to times where I'd pretend like I need you. Know, do you know? You know what this is, right? And I'd pretend like I knew, and early career, career even, and then I get called out on something, and it just was like a gut punch, like, but I'm supposed to know that, you know,   Michael Hingson ** 10:13 what did your parents think of you being so curious as you were growing up?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 10:17 They they liked it, but I was quiet, okay? Quiet, quiet, quietly, confident and curious. It's just an interesting, I guess, an interesting mix. Yeah, but no, they Oh, they indulged it. I, you know, they answered my questions. They like I said, I read a lot, so frequent trips to the library to read a lot about a lot of things, but I think, you know, professionally, you take something that's kind of a grab bag, and what do I do with all these different interests? And when I started college undeclared, I realized, you know, communications, marketing, you kind of can make a discipline out of a bunch of interests, and call it something professional. Where did you go to college? I went to UCSD. UCSD, here in San Diego, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 11:12 well, I was just up the road from you at UC Irvine. So here two good campuses,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 11:18 they are, they are and UCSD. I was back recently. It's like a it's like a city. Now, every time we go back, we see these, these kids. They're babies. They get they get food every you know, they have, like, a food nice food court. There's parking, an abundance of parking, there's theaters, there's all the things we didn't have. Of course, we had some of it, but they just have, like, what if we had one of something or 50 parking spaces, they've got 5000 you know. And if we had, you know, one one food option, they got 35 Yeah, they don't know how good they have it.   Michael Hingson ** 11:53 When I was at UC urban, I think we had 3200 undergraduates. It wasn't huge. It was in that area. Now, I think there's 31,000 or 32,000 undergrads. Oh, wow. And as one of my former physics professors joked, he's retired, but I got to meet him. I was there, and last year I was inducted as an alumni member of Phi, beta, kappa. And so we were talking, and he said, You know what UCI really stands for, don't you? Well, I didn't, I said, What? And he said, under construction indefinitely. And there's, they're always building, sure, and that's that started when I was there, but, but they are always building. And it's just an amazing place today, with so many students and graduate students, undergrads and faculty, and it's, it's an amazing place. I think I'd have a little bit more of a challenge of learning where everything is, although I could do it, if I had to go back, I could do it. Yeah, UCI is nice. But I think you could say, you could say that about any of the UCs are constantly under, under development. And, you know, that's the old one. That's the old area. And I'm like, oh, that's I went to school in the old area. I know the old area. I remember Central Park. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So you ended up majoring in Marketing and Communications,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 13:15 yeah. So I undergrad in communications. They have a really nice business school now that they did not have at the time. So I predated that, but I probably would have ended up there. I got out with a very, not knocking the school. It's a great, wonderful school. I got out with a very theory, theoretical based degree. So I knew a lot about communications from a theory based perspective. I knew about brain cognition. I took maybe one quarter of practical use it professionally. It was like a video, like a video production course, so I I learned hands on, 111, quarter out of my entire academic career. But a lot of it was learning. The learning not necessarily applied, but just a lot of theory. And I started school at 17, and I got out just shortly after my 21st birthday, so I don't know what my hurry was, but, but there I was with a lot of theory, some some internships, but not a ton of professional experience. And, you know, trying to figure it out in the work world at that point. Did you get a graduate degree or just undergrad? I did. I went back. So I did it for almost five years in in financial marketing, and then, and I wear a suit and tie to work every day, which I don't think anyone does anymore. And I'm suddenly like, like, I'm from the 30s. I'm not that old, but, but no, seriously, we, you know, to work at the at the headquarters of a international credit union. Of course, I wear a suit, no after four and a half. Years there, I went back to graduate school up in the bay the Bay Area, Bay Area, and that's when I got my masters in in marketing. Oh, where'd you go in the Bay Area? San Francisco, state. Okay, okay, yeah, really nice school. It's got one of the biggest International MBA programs in the country, I think. And got to live in that city for a couple years.   Michael Hingson ** 15:24 We lived in Novato, so North Bay, for 12 years, from 2002 to the end of June 2014 Yeah, I like that area. That's, that's the, oh, the weather isn't San Diego's. That area is still a really nice area to live as well. Again, it is pretty expensive, but still it   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 15:44 is, yeah, I it's not San Diego weather, a beautiful day. There is like nothing else. But when we first got there, I said, I want to live by the beach. That's what I know. And we got out to the beach, which is like at the end of the outer sunset, and it's in the 40s streets, and it feels like the end of the universe. It just, it just like, feels apocalyptic. And I said, I don't want to live by the beach anymore, but, but no, it was. It was a great, great learning experience, getting an MBA. I always say it's kind of like a backpack or a toolkit you walk around with, because it is all that's all application. You know, everything that I learned about theory put into practice, you got to put into practice. And so I was, I was really glad that I that I got to do that. And like I said, Live, live in, live in the Bay. For a couple years, I'd always wanted   Michael Hingson ** 16:36 to, yeah, well, that's a nice area to live. If you got to live somewhere that is one of the nicer places. So glad you got that opportunity. And having done it, as I said for 12 years, I appreciate it too. And yeah, so much to offer there.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 16:51 The only problem I had was it was in between the two.com bubbles. So literally, nothing was happening. The good side was that the apartment I was living in went for something like $5,500 before I got there, and then the draw everything dropped, you know, the bottom dropped out, and I was able to squeak by and afford living in the city. But, you know, you go for look, seeking your fortune. And there's, there's, I had just missed it. And then I left, and then it just came back. So I was, I was there during a lull. So you're the one, huh? Okay, I didn't do it, just the way Miami worked out. Did you then go back to San Diego? I did, yeah. So I've met my wife here. We moved up to the bay together, and when we were debating, when I graduated, we were thinking, do we want to drive, you know, an hour and a half Silicon Valley or someone, you know, somewhere further out just to stay in the area? Or do we want to go back to where we where we know and like, and start a life there and we, you know, send, like you said at the beginning, San Diego is not a bad place to be. So as it was never a fallback, but as a place to, you know, come back home to, yeah, I welcomed it.   Michael Hingson ** 18:08 And so what did you do when you came back to San Diego?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 18:12 So I have my best friend from childhood was starting as a photography company still does, and it was starting like a sister company, as an agency to serve the photography company, which was growing really fast, and then also, like picking up clients and building a book out of so he said, you know you're, I see you're applying for jobs, and I know that you're, you know, you're getting some offers and things, but just say no To all of them and come work with me and and at the time it was, it was running out of a was like a loft of an apartment, but it, you know, it grew to us, a small staff, and then a bigger staff, and spun off on its own. And so that's, that's what I did right out of, right out of grad school. I said no to a few things, and said there's a lot, lot worse fates than you know, spending your work day with your best friend and and growing a company out and so what exactly did you do for them? So it was like, we'll call it a boutique creative agency. It was around the time of I'm making myself sound so old. See, so there was flash, flash technology, like web banners were made with Flash. It had moved to be flash, Adobe, Flash, yeah. So companies were making these web banners, and what you call interactive we got a proficiency of making full website experiences with Flash, which not a lot of companies were doing. So because of that, it led to some really interesting opportunities and clients and being able to take on a capability, a proficiency that you know for a time. Uh was, was uh as a differentiator, say, you know, you could have a web banner and an old website, or you could have a flash, interactive website where you take your users on an experience with music and all the things that seem so dated now,   Michael Hingson ** 20:14 well, and of course, unfortunately, a lot of that content wasn't very accessible, so some of us didn't really get access to a lot of it, and I don't remember whether Adobe really worked to make flash all that accessible. They dealt with other things, but I'm not sure that flash ever really was. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I really, I don't think so.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 20:38 What we would wind up doing is making parallel websites, but, but then mobile became a thing, and then you'd make a third version of a website, and it just got tedious. And really it's when the iPhone came out. It just it flash got stopped in its tracks, like it was like a week, and then action script, which is the language that it runs on, and all the all the capabilities and proficiencies, just there was no use for it anymore.   Michael Hingson ** 21:07 Well, and and the iPhone came out, as you said, and one of the things that happened fairly early on was that, because they were going to be sued, Apple agreed to make the I devices accessible, and they did something that hadn't really been done up to that time. They set the trend for it. They built accessibility into the operating systems, and they built the ability to have accessibility into the operating systems. The one thing that I wish that Apple would do even a little bit more of than they do, than they do today, although it's better than it used to be, is I wish they would mandate, or require people who are going to put apps in the App Store, for example, to make sure that the apps are accessible. They have guidelines. They have all sorts of information about how to do it, but they don't really require it, and so you can still get inaccessible apps, which is unfortunate,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 22:09 that is Yeah, and like you said, with Flash, an entire you know, ecosystem had limited to no accessibility, so   Michael Hingson ** 22:16 and making additional on another website, Yeah, a lot of places did that, but they weren't totally equal, because they would make enough of the website, well, they would make the website have enough content to be able to do things, but they didn't have everything that they had on the graphical or flash website, and so It was definitely there, but it wasn't really, truly equal, which is unfortunate, and so now it's a lot better.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 22:46 Yeah, it is no and I hate to say it, but if it came down to limited time, limited budget, limited everything you want to make something that is usable and efficient, but no, I mean, I can't speak for all developers, but no, it would be hard. You'd be hard pressed to create a an equally parallel experience with full accessibility at the time.   Michael Hingson ** 23:16 Yeah, yeah, you would. And it is a lot better. And there's, there's still stuff that needs to be done, but I think over time, AI is going to help some of that. And it is already made. It isn't perfect yet, but even some graphics and so on can be described by AI. And we're seeing things improve over, over, kind of what they were. So we're making progress, which is good,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 23:44 yeah, no, I'm really happy about that. And with with AI and AI can go through and parse your code and build in all you know, everything that that needs to happen, there's a lot less excuse for for not making something as accessible as it can   Michael Hingson ** 23:59 be, yeah, but people still ignore it to a large degree. Still, only about 3% of all websites really have taken the time to put some level of accessibility into them. So there's still a lot to be done, and it's just not that magical or that hard, but it's mostly, I think, education. People don't know, they don't know that it can be done. They don't think about it being done, or they don't do it initially, and so then it becomes a lot more expensive to do later on, because you got to go back and redo   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 24:28 it, all right, yeah, anything, anytime you have to do something, something retroactive or rebuild, you're, yeah, you're starting from not a great place.   Michael Hingson ** 24:37 So how long did you work with your friend?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 24:42 A really long time, because I did the studio, and then I wound up keeping that alive. But going over to the photography side, the company really grew. Had a team of staff photographers, had a team of, like a network of photographers, and. And was doing quite, quite a lot, an abundance of events every year, weddings and corporate and all types of things. So all in, I was with the company till, gosh, I want to say, like, 2014 or so. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 25:21 And then what did you go off and do?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 25:25 So then I worked for an agency, so I got started with creative and, well, rewinding, I got started with financial marketing, with the suit and tie. But then I went into creative, and I've tried pretty much every aspect of marketing I hadn't done marketing automation and email sequences and CRMs and outreach and those types of things. So that was the agency I worked for that was their specialization, which I like, to a degree, but it's, it's not my, not my home base. Yeah, there's, there's people that love and breathe automation. I like having interjecting some, you know, some type of personal aspect into the what you're putting out there. And I have to wrestle with that as ai, ai keeps growing in prominence, like, Where's the place for the human, creative? But I did that for a little while, and then I've been on my own for the past six or seven years.   Michael Hingson ** 26:26 So what is it you do today? Exactly?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 26:30 So I'm, we'll call it a fractional CMO, or a fractional marketing advisor. So I come in and help companies grow their their marketing and figure themselves out. I've gone I work with large companies. I've kind of gone back to early stage startups and and tech companies. I just find that they're doing really more, a lot more interesting things right now with the market the way it is. They're taking more chances and and they're they're moving faster. I like to move pretty quick, so that's where my head's at. And I'm doing more. We'll call em like CO entrepreneurial ventures with my clients, as opposed to just a pure agency service model, which is interesting. And and I got my own podcast. There you go. Yeah. What's your podcast called? Not to keep you busy, it's called, we fixed it. You're welcome. There you   Michael Hingson ** 27:25 go. And it seems to me, if my memory hasn't failed me, even though I don't take one of those memory or brain supplements, we were on it not too long ago, talking about Uber, which was fun.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 27:39 We had you on there. I don't know which episode will drop first, this one or or the one you were on, but we sure enjoyed having you on there.   Michael Hingson ** 27:46 Well, it was fun. Well, we'll have to do more of it, and I think it'd be fun to but so you own your own business. Then today,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 27:53 I do, yeah, it's called Double zebra.   Michael Hingson ** 27:56 Now, how did you come up with that name?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 27:59 It's two basic elements, so basic, black and white, something unremarkable, but if you can take it and multiply it or repeat it, then you're onto something interesting.   Michael Hingson ** 28:13 Lots of stripes. Yeah, lots of stripes.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 28:17 And it's always fun when I talk to someone in the UK or Australia, or then they say zebra or zebra, right? I get to hear the way they say it. It's that's fun. Occasionally I get double double zero. People will miss misname it and double zero. That's his   Michael Hingson ** 28:34 company's that. But has anybody called it double Zed yet?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 28:39 No, that's a new one.   Michael Hingson ** 28:41 Yeah? Well, you never know. Maybe we've given somebody the idea now. Yeah, yeah. Well, so I'm I'm curious. You obviously do a lot to analyze and help people in critique in corporate mishaps. Have you ever seen a particular business mistake that you really admire and just really love, its audacity,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 29:07 where it came out wrong, but I liked it anyway, yeah, oh, man,   Michael Hingson ** 29:13 let's see, or one maybe, where they learned from their mistake and fixed it. But still, yeah, sure.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 29:23 Yeah, that's a good one. I like, I like bold moves, even if they're wrong, as long as they don't, you know, they're not harmful to people I don't know. Let's go. I'm I'm making myself old. Let's go back to Crystal crystal. Pepsi, there you go for that. But that was just such a fun idea at the time. You know, we're the new generation and, and this is the 90s, and everything's new now, and we're going to take the color out of out of soda, I know we're and we're going to take it and just make it what you know, but a little unfamiliar, right? Right? It's Crystal Pepsi, and the ads were cool, and it was just very of the moment. Now, that moment didn't last very long, no, and the public didn't, didn't hold on to it very long. But there's, you know, it was, it let you question, and I in a good way, what you thought about what is even a Pepsi. And it worked. It was they brought it back, like for a very short time, five, I want to say five or six years ago, just because people had a nostalgia for it. But yeah, big, big, bold, we're confident this is the new everyone's going to be talking about this for a long time, and we're going to put a huge budget behind it, Crystal Pepsi. And it it didn't, but yeah, I liked it.   Michael Hingson ** 30:45 So why is that that is clearly somebody had to put a lot of effort into the concept, and must have gotten some sort of message that it would be very successful, but then it wasn't,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 31:00 yeah, yeah. For something like that, you have to get buy in at so many levels. You know, you have an agency saying, this is the right thing to do. You have CD, your leadership saying, No, I don't know. Let's pull back. Whenever an agency gets away with something and and spends a bunch of client money and it's just audacious, and I can't believe they did it. I know how many levels of buy in they had to get, yeah, to say, Trust me. Trust me. And a lot of times it works, you know, if they do something that just no one else had had thought of or wasn't willing to do, and then you see that they got through all those levels of bureaucracy and they were able to pull it off.   Michael Hingson ** 31:39 When it works. I love it. When it doesn't work. I love it, you know, just, just the fact that they did it, yeah, you got to admire that. Gotta admire it. They pulled it off, yeah. My favorite is still ranch flavored Fritos. They disappeared, and I've never understood why I love ranch flavored Fritos. And we had them in New Jersey and so on. And then we got, I think, out to California. But by that time, they had started to fade away, and I still have never understood why. Since people love ranch food so   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 32:06 much, that's a good one. I don't know that. I know those because it does, it does that one actually fill a market need. If there's Doritos, there's, you know, the ranch, I don't know if they were, they different.   Michael Hingson ** 32:17 They were Fritos, but they they did have ranch you know they were, they were ranch flavored, and I thought they were great. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that one didn't hit because they have, I think they have chili flavor. They have regular. Do they have anything else honey barbecue? I don't know. I don't know, but I do still like regular, but I love ranch flavored the best. Now, I heard last week that Honey Nut Cheerios are going away. General Mills is getting rid of honey nut cheerios. No, is that real? That's what I heard on the news. Okay, I believe you, but I'll look it up anyway. Well, it's interesting. I don't know why, after so many years, they would but there have been other examples of cereals and so on that were around for a while and left and, well, Captain Crunch was Captain Crunch was one, and I'm not sure if lucky charms are still around. And then there was one called twinkles.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 33:13 And I know all those except twinkles, but I would if you asked me, I would say, Honey Nut Cheerios. There's I would say their sales are better than Cheerios, or at least I would think so, yeah, at least a good portfolio company. Well, who knows, who knows, but I do know that Gen Z and millennials eat cereal a lot less than us older folks, because it takes work to put milk and cereal into a bowl, and it's not pre made, yeah. So maybe it's got to do with, you know, changing eating habits and consumer preferences   Michael Hingson ** 33:48 must be Yeah, and they're not enough of us, older, more experienced people to to counteract that. But you know, well, we'll see Yeah, as long as they don't get rid of the formula because it may come back. Yeah, well, now   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 34:03 Yeah, exactly between nostalgia and reboots and remakes and nothing's gone forever, everything comes back eventually.   Michael Hingson ** 34:10 Yeah, it does in all the work that you've done. Have you ever had to completely rethink and remake your approach and do something different?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 34:24 Yeah, well, there's been times where I've been on uncharted territory. I worked with an EV company before EVs were a thing, and it was going, actually going head to head with with Tesla. But the thing there's they keep trying to bring it back and crowd sourcing it and all that stuff. It's, but at the time, it was like, I said it was like, which is gonna make it first this company, or Tesla, but, but this one looks like a, it looks, it feels like a spaceship. It's got, like space. It's a, it's, it's really. Be really unique. So the one that that is more like a family car one out probably rightly so. But there was no consumer understanding of not, let alone our preference, like there is now for an EV and what do I do? I have to plug it in somewhere and and all those things. So I had to rethink, you know what? There's no playbook for that yet. I guess I have to kind of work on it. And they were only in prototyping at the point where we came in and had to launch this, you know, teaser and teaser campaign for it, and build up awareness and demand for this thing that existed on a computer at the time.   Michael Hingson ** 35:43 What? Why is Tesla so successful?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 35:48 Because they spent a bunch of money. Okay, that helps? Yeah, they were playing the long game. They could outspend competitors. They've got the unique distribution model. And they kind of like, I said, retrained consumers into how you buy a car, why you buy a car, and, and I think politics aside, people love their people love their teslas. You don't. My understanding is you don't have to do a whole lot once you buy it. And, and they they, like I said, they had the money to throw at it, that they could wait, wait it out and wait out that when you do anything with retraining consumers or behavior change or telling them you know, your old car is bad, your new this new one's good, that's the most. We'll call it costly and and difficult forms of marketing is retraining behavior. But they, they had the money to write it out and and their products great, you know, again, I'm not a Tesla enthusiast, but it's, it looks good. People love it. I you know, they run great from everything that I know, but so did a lot of other companies. So I think they just had the confidence in what they were doing to throw money at it and wait, be patient and well,   Michael Hingson ** 37:19 they're around there again the the Tesla is another example of not nearly as accessible as it should be and and I recognize that I'm not going to be the primary driver of a Tesla today, although I have driven a Tesla down Interstate 15, about 15 miles the driver was in the car, but, but I did it for about 15 miles going down I 15 and fully appreciate what autonomous vehicles will be able to do. We're way too much still on the cusp, and I think that people who just poo poo them are missing it. But I also know we're not there yet, but the day is going to come when there's going to be a lot more reliability, a lot less potential for accidents. But the thing that I find, like with the Tesla from a passenger standpoint, is I can't do any of the things that a that a sighted passenger can do. I can't unless it's changed in the last couple of years. I can't manipulate the radio. I can't do the other things that that that passengers might do in the Tesla, and I should be able to do that, and of all the vehicles where they ought to have access and could, the Tesla would be one, and they could do it even still using touch screens. I mean, the iPhone, for example, is all touch screen. But Apple was very creative about creating a mechanism to allow a person to not need to look at the screen using VoiceOver, the screen reader on the iPhone, but having a new set of gestures that were created that work with VoiceOver so that I could interact with that screen just as well as you can.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 38:59 That's interesting that you say that, you know, Apple was working on a car for a while, and I don't know to a fact, but I bet they were thinking through accessibility and building that into every turn, or at least planning to,   Michael Hingson ** 39:13 oh, I'm sure they were. And the reality is, it isn't again. It isn't that magical to do. It would be simple for the Teslas and and other vehicles to do it. But, you know, we're we're not there mentally. And that's of course, the whole issue is that we just societally don't tend to really look at accessibility like we should. My view of of, say, the apple the iPhone, still is that they could be marketing the screen reader software that I use, which is built into the system already. They could, they could do some things to mark market that a whole lot more than they already do for sighted people. Your iPhone rings, um. You have to tap it a lot of times to be able to answer it. Why can't they create a mode when you're in a vehicle where a lot more of that is verbally, spoken and handled through voice output from the phone and voice input from you, without ever having to look at or interact with the screen.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 40:19 I bet you're right, yeah, it's just another app at that point   Michael Hingson ** 40:22 well, and it's what I do. I mean, it's the way I operate with it. So I just think that they could, they could be more creative. There's so many examples of things that begin in one way and alter themselves or become altered. The typewriter, for example, was originally developed for a blind Countess to be able to communicate with her lover without her husband finding out her husband wasn't very attentive to her anyway. But the point is that the, I think the lover, created the this device where she could actually sit down and type a letter and seal it and give it to a maid or someone to give to, to her, her friend. And that's how the typewriter other other people had created, some examples, but the typewriter from her was probably the thing that most led to what we have today.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 41:17 Oh, I didn't know that. But let me Michael, let me ask you. So I was in LA not too long ago, and they have, you know, driverless vehicles are not the form yet, but they we, I saw them around the city. What do you think about driverless vehicles in terms of accessibility or otherwise?   Michael Hingson ** 41:32 Well, again, so, so the most basic challenge that, fortunately, they haven't really pushed which is great, is okay, you're driving along in an autonomous vehicle and you lose connection, or whatever. How are you going to be able to pull it off to the side of the road? Now, some people have talked about saying that there, there has to be a law that only sighted people could well the sighted people a sighted person has to be in the vehicle. The reality is, the technology has already been developed to allow a blind person to get behind the wheel of a car and have enough information to be able to drive that vehicle just as well, or nearly as well, as a sighted person. But I think for this, from the standpoint of autonomousness, I'm all for it. I think we're going to continue to see it. It's going to continue to get better. It is getting better daily. So I haven't ridden in a fully autonomous vehicle, but I do believe that that those vehicles need to make sure, or the manufacturers need to make sure that they really do put accessibility into it. I should be able to give the vehicle all the instructions and get all the information that any sighted person would get from the vehicle, and the technology absolutely exists to do that today. So I think we will continue to see that, and I think it will get better all the way around. I don't know whether, well, I think they that actually there have been examples of blind people who've gotten into an autonomous vehicle where there wasn't a sighted person, and they've been able to function with it pretty well. So I don't see why it should be a problem at all, and it's only going to get   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 43:22 better. Yeah, for sure. And I keep thinking, you know, accessibility would be a prior priority in autonomous vehicles, but I keep learning from you, you know you were on our show and and our discussions, that the priorities are not always in line and not always where they necessarily should   Michael Hingson ** 43:39 be. Well. And again, there are reasons for it, and while I might not like it, I understand it, and that is, a lot of it is education, and a lot of it is is awareness. Most schools that teach people how to code to develop websites don't spend a lot of time dealing with accessibility, even though putting all the codes in and creating accessible websites is not a magically difficult thing to do, but it's an awareness issue. And so yeah, we're just going to have to continue to fight the fight and work toward getting people to be more aware of why it's necessary. And in reality, I do believe that there is a lot of truth to this fact that making things more accessible for me will help other people as well, because by having not well, voice input, certainly in a vehicle, but voice output and so on, and a way for me to accessibly, be able to input information into an autonomous vehicle to take to have it take me where I want to go, is only going to help everyone else as well. A lot of things that I need would benefit sighted people so well, so much.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 44:56 Yeah, you're exactly right. Yeah, AI assisted. And voice input and all those things, they are universally loved and accepted now, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 45:07 it's getting better. The unemployment rate is still very high among, for example, employable blind people, because all too many people still think blind people can't work, even though they can. So it's all based on prejudice rather than reality, and we're, we're, we're just going to have to continue to work to try to deal with the issues. I wrote an article a couple of years ago. One of the things where we're constantly identified in the world is we're blind or visually impaired. And the problem with visually impaired is visually we're not different simply because we don't see and impaired, we are not we're getting people slowly to switch to blind and low vision, deaf people and hard of hearing people did that years ago. If you tell a deaf person they're hearing impaired, they're liable to deck you on the spot. Yeah, and blind people haven't progressed to that point, but it's getting there, and the reality is blind and low vision is a much more appropriate terminology to use, and it's not equating us to not having eyesight by saying we're impaired, you know. So it's it's an ongoing process, and all we can do is continue to work at it?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 46:21 Yeah, no. And I appreciate that you do. Like I said, education and retraining is, is call it marketing or call it, you know, just the way people should behave. But it's, that's, it's hard. It's one of the hardest things to do.   Michael Hingson ** 46:36 But, you know, we're making progress, and we'll, we'll continue to do that, and I think over time we'll we'll see things improve. It may not happen as quickly as we'd like, but I also believe that I and other people who are blind do need to be educators. We need to teach people. We need to be patient enough to do that. And you know, I see so often articles written about Me who talk about how my guide dog led me out of the World Trade Center. The guide dog doesn't lead anybody anywhere. That's not the job of the dog. The dog's job is to make sure that we walk safely. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there. So a guide dog guides and will make sure that we walk safely. But I'm the one that has to tell the dog, step by step, where I want the dog to go, and that story is really the crux of what I talk about many times when I travel and speak to talk to the public about what happened in the World Trade Center, because I spent a lot of time learning what I needed to do in order to escape safely and on September 11, not ever Having anticipated that we would need that kind of information, but still preparing for it, the mindset kicked in, and it all worked well.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 47:49 You You and I talked about Uber on on my show, when you came on, and we gave them a little ding and figured out some stuff for them, what in terms of accessibility, and, you know, just general corporate citizenship, what's what's a company that, let's give them a give, give, call them out for a good reason? What's a company that's doing a good job, in your eyes, in your mind, for accessibility, maybe an unexpected one.   Michael Hingson ** 48:20 Well, as I mentioned before, I think Apple is doing a lot of good things. I think Microsoft is doing some good I think they could do better than they are in in some ways, but they're working at it. I wish Google would put a little bit more emphasis on making its you its interface more more usable to you really use the like with Google Docs and so on. You have to hurt learn a whole lot of different commands to make part of that system work, rather than it being as straightforward as it should be, there's some new companies coming up. There's a new company called inno search. Inno search.ai, it was primarily designed at this point for blind and low vision people. The idea behind inner search is to have any a way of dealing with E commerce and getting people to be able to help get help shopping and so on. So they actually have a a phone number. It's, I think it's 855, shop, G, P, T, and you can go in, and you can talk to the bot and tell it what you want, and it can help fill up a shopping cart. It's using artificial intelligence, but it understands really well. I have yet to hear it tell me I don't understand what you want. Sometimes it gives me a lot of things that more than I than I'm searching for. So there, there's work that needs to be done, but in a search is really a very clever company that is spending a lot of time working to make. Sure that everything that it does to make a shopping experience enjoyable is also making sure that it's accessible.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 50:08 Oh, that's really interesting. Now, with with my podcast, and just in general, I spend a lot of time critiquing companies and and not taking them to test, but figuring out how to make them better. But I always like the opportunity to say you did something well, like even quietly, or you're, you know, people are finding you because of a certain something you didn't you took it upon yourselves to do and figure out   Michael Hingson ** 50:34 there's an audio editor, and we use it some unstoppable mindset called Reaper. And Reaper is a really great digital audio workstation product. And there is a whole series of scripts that have been written that make Reaper incredibly accessible as an audio editing tool. It's really great. It's about one of the most accessible products that I think I have seen is because they've done so well with it, which is kind of cool.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 51:06 Oh, very nice. Okay, good. It's not even expensive. You gave me two to look, to pay attention to, and, you know, Track, track, along with,   Michael Hingson ** 51:16 yeah, they're, they're, they're fun. So what do people assume about you that isn't true or that you don't think is true?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 51:25 People say, I'm quiet at times, guess going back to childhood, but there's time, there's situation. It's it's situational. There's times where I don't have to be the loudest person in the room or or be the one to talk the most, I can hang back and observe, but I would not categorize myself as quiet, you know, like I said, it's environmental. But now I've got plenty to say. You just have to engage me, I guess.   Michael Hingson ** 51:56 Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting. I'm trying to remember   Michael Hingson ** 52:04 on Shark Tank, what's Mark's last name, Cuban. Cuban. It's interesting to watch Mark on Shark Tank. I don't know whether he's really a quiet person normally, but I see when I watch Shark Tank. The other guys, like Mr. Wonderful with Kevin are talking all the time, and Mark just sits back and doesn't say anything for the longest period of time, and then he drops a bomb and bids and wins. Right? He's just really clever about the way he does it. I think there's a lot to be said for not just having to speak up every single time, but rather really thinking things through. And he clearly does that,   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 52:46 yeah, yeah, you have to appreciate that. And I think that's part of the reason that you know, when I came time to do a podcast, I did a panel show, because I'm surrounded by bright, interesting, articulate people, you included as coming on with us and and I don't have to fill every second. I can, I can, I, you know, I can intake information and think for a second and then maybe have a   Michael Hingson ** 53:15 response. Well, I think that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? I mean, it's the way it really ought to be.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 53:20 Yeah, if you got to fill an hour by yourself, you're always on, right?   Michael Hingson ** 53:26 Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I know when I travel to speak. I figure that when I land somewhere, I'm on until I leave again. So I always enjoy reading books, especially going and coming on airplanes. And then I can be on the whole time. I am wherever I have to be, and then when I get on the airplane to come home, I can relax again.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 53:45 Now, I like that. And I know, you keynote, I think I'd rather moderate, you know, I'll say something when I have something to say, and let other people talk for a while. Well, you gotta, you have a great story, and you're, you know, I'm glad you're getting it out there.   Michael Hingson ** 53:58 Well, if anybody needs a keynote speaker. Just saying, for everybody listening, feel free to email me. I'd love to hear from you. You can email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com or speaker at Michael hingson.com always looking for speaking engagements. Then we got that one in. I'm glad, but, but you know, for you, is there a podcast episode that you haven't done, that you really want to do, that just seems to be eluding you?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 54:28 There are a couple that got away. I wanted to do one about Sesame Street because it was without a it was looking like it was going to be without a home. And that's such a hallmark of my childhood. And so many, yeah, I think they worked out a deal, which is probably what I was going to propose with. It's like a CO production deal with Netflix. So it seems like they're safe for the foreseeable future. But what was the other I think there's, there's at least one or two more where maybe the guests didn't line up, or. Or the timeliness didn't work. I was going to have someone connected to Big Lots. You remember Big Lots? I think they're still around to some degree, but I think they are, come on and tell me their story, because they've, you know, they've been on the brink of extinction for a little while. So it's usually, it's either a timing thing, with the with with the guest, or the news cycle has just maybe gone on and moved past us.   Michael Hingson ** 55:28 But, yeah, I know people wrote off Red Lobster for a while, but they're still around.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 55:35 They're still around. That would be a good one. Yeah, their endless shrimp didn't do them any favors. No, that didn't help a whole lot, but it's the companies, even the ones we've done already, you know, they they're still six months later. Toilet hasn't been even a full year of our show yet, but in a year, I bet there's, you know, we could revisit them all over again, and they're still going to find themselves in, I don't know, hot water, but some kind of controversy for one reason or another. And we'll, we'll try to help them out again.   Michael Hingson ** 56:06 Have you seen any successes from the podcast episodes where a company did listen to you and has made some changes?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 56:15 I don't know that. I can correlate one to one. We know that they listen. We can look at the metrics and where the where the list listens, are coming from, especially with LinkedIn, gives you some engagement and tells you which companies are paying attention. So we know that they are and they have now, whether they took that and, you know, implemented it, we have a disclaimer saying, Don't do it. You know, we're not there to give you unfiltered legal advice. You know, don't hold us accountable for anything we say. But if we said something good and you like it, do it. So, you know, I don't know to a T if they have then we probably given away billions of dollars worth of fixes. But, you know, I don't know the correlation between those who have listened and those who have acted on something that we might have, you know, alluded to or set out, right? But it has. We've been the times that we take it really seriously. We've we've predicted some things that have come come to pass.   Michael Hingson ** 57:13 That's cool, yeah. Well, you certainly had a great career, and you've done a lot of interesting things. If you had to suddenly change careers and do something entirely different from what you're doing, what would it be?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 57:26 Oh, man, my family laughs at me, but I think it would be a furniture salesman. There you go. Yeah, I don't know why. There's something about it's just enough repetition and just enough creativity. I guess, where people come in, you tell them, you know you, they tell you their story, you know, you get to know them. And then you say, Oh, well, this sofa would be amazing, you know, and not, not one with endless varieties, not one with with two models somewhere in between. Yeah, I think that would be it keeps you on your feet.   Michael Hingson ** 58:05 Furniture salesman, well, if you, you know, if you get too bored, math is homes and Bob's furniture probably looking for people.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 58:12 Yeah, I could probably do that at night.   Michael Hingson ** 58:18 What advice do you give to people who are just starting out, or what kinds of things do you would you give to people we have ideas and thoughts?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 58:27 So I've done a lot of mentoring. I've done a lot of one on one calls. They told I always work with an organization. They told me I did 100 plus calls. I always tell people to take use the create their own momentum, so you can apply for things, you can stand in line, you can wait, or you can come up with your own idea and test it out and say, I'm doing this. Who wants in? And the minute you have an idea, people are interested. You know, you're on to something. Let me see what that's all about. You know, I want to be one of the three that you're looking for. So I tell them, create their own momentum. Try to flip the power dynamic. So if you're asking for a job, how do you get the person that you're asking to want something from you and and do things that are take on, things that are within your control?   Michael Hingson ** 59:18 Right? Right? Well, if you had to go back and tell the younger Aaron something from years ago, what would you give him in the way of advice?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 59:30 Be more vulnerable. Don't pretend you know everything. There you go. And you don't need to know everything. You need to know what you know. And then get a little better and get a little better.   Michael Hingson ** 59:43 One of the things that I constantly tell people who I hire as salespeople is you can be a student, at least for a year. Don't hesitate to ask your customers questions because they're not out to. Get you. They want you to succeed. And if you interact with your customers and you're willing to learn from them, they're willing to teach, and you'll learn so much that you never would have thought you would learn. I just think that's such a great concept.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 1:00:12 Oh, exactly right. Yeah. As soon as I started saying that to clients, you know, they would throw out an industry term. As soon as I've said I don't know what that is, can you explain it to me? Yeah? And they did, and the world didn't fall apart. And I didn't, you know, didn't look like the idiot that I thought I would when we went on with our day. Yeah, that whole protective barrier that I worked so hard to keep up as a facade, I didn't have to do it, and it was so freeing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:41 I hear you. Well, this has been fun. We've been doing it for an hour. Can you believe it? Oh, hey, that was a quick hour. I know it was a lot of fun. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening. Please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening or watching. We really appreciate it. We value your thoughts. I'd love to hear from you and get your thoughts on our episode today. And I'm sure Aaron would like that as well, and I'll give you an email address in a moment. But Aaron, if people want to reach out to you and maybe use your services, how do they do that?   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 1:01:12 Yeah, so two ways you can check me out, at double zebra, z, E, B, R, A, double zebra.com and the podcast, I encourage you to check out too. We fixed it. Pod.com, we fixed it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:25 Pod.com, there you go. So reach out to Aaron and get marketing stuff done and again. Thank you all. My email address, if you'd like to talk to us, is Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and if you know anyone else who you think ought to be a guest on our podcast, we'd love it if you give us an introduction. We're always looking for people, so please do and again. Aaron, I just want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun.   Aaron Wolpoff, ** 1:01:58 That was great. Thanks for having me. Michael,   **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:05 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Episode Summary: Tim Montague, host of Clean Power Hour and author of Wired for Sun: The Commercial Solar Playbook, joins Benoy to share how commercial solar projects can be structured for long-term success. The conversation covers how to quickly qualify opportunities, manage interconnection risk, and scope EPC contracts to protect margins. Tim also breaks down how the Big Beautiful Bill influences C&I project economics and what developers can do to scale repeatable business models in 2025 and beyond.   Biographies Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy, solar developer and consulting firm, and a strategic advisor to multiple cleantech startups. Over his career, Benoy has developed over 100 MWs of solar projects across the U.S., helped launch the first residential solar tax equity funds at Tesla, and brokered $45 million in Renewable Energy Credits (“REC”) transactions. Prior to founding Reneu Energy, Benoy was the Environmental Commodities Trader in Tesla's Project Finance Group, where he managed one of the largest environmental commodities portfolios. He originated REC trades and co-developed a monetization and hedging strategy with senior leadership to enter the East Coast market. As Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners, Benoy crafted project finance solutions for commercial-scale solar portfolios. His role at Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund with 125 MWs of U.S. renewable assets, involved evaluating investment opportunities and maximizing returns. He also played a key role in the sale of the firm's renewable portfolio. Earlier in his career, Benoy worked in Energy Structured Finance at Deloitte & Touche and Financial Advisory Services at Ernst & Young, following an internship on the trading floor at D.E. Shaw & Co., a multi billion dollar hedge fund. Benoy holds an MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from NYU Stern, where he was an Alumni Scholar. Tim Montague Tim Montague is a solar developer, solar & storage expert, coach, and consultant with over 30 years of experience in technology, sustainability, and triple bottom line business. As President of the Clean Power Consulting Group and host and creator of the Clean Power Hour podcast, Tim has helped dozens of technology entrepreneurs and businesses grow and create a positive impact. His motto is "Let's grow solar & storage!"   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   TIm Montague  Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/cleanpowerhour/ Website:  https://www.cleanpowerhour.com/ Wired for Sun Book:  https://www.amazon.com/Wired-Sun-Strategy-Step-Step-ebook/dp/B0FJSG8PVH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1YQGJET8LZJZ1&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lOW0xetQ9-e5e90Is3zg2u_EBixUOl0Uyc_jsS7vy1c-PnTltAG4CgFpskZnAU_6vGp-wONOQGFOnKmBs_DRkjRNa4A7QigAo9QP5bOBZJAL5IHLwLSBzR8Oui2tqMvvZ5_GL_mwVoEd4y2ljPsHME4z--Ik7kg2t8e3g997ncfuxdKtANXQBqpiBMgV2mDWIJ2vv1i32hMZLThNvc5PNTnvnOld_YK1nF0Eivd-k4U.9NObYCnV1_Y08b4ImlNskcKPcBhJ9_IZIhrQ18t1yS0&dib_tag=se&keywords=wired+for+sun&qid=1757334378&sprefix=wired+fo+r%2Caps%2C1389&sr=8-1

This episode's Community Champion Sponsor is Ossur. To learn more about their ‘Responsible for Tomorrow' Sustainability Campaign, and how you can get involved: CLICK HEREEpisode Overview: Healthcare investment banking has long followed a volume-driven, cookie-cutter model that prioritizes transactions over transformative outcomes. Our next guest, Sam Libby, is changing that paradigm as founder and President of TCB Capital Advisors. With over 30 transactions totaling more than $20 billion, Sam brings a mission-driven approach to underinvested healthcare areas like oncology, women's health, and neurodegenerative diseases. After experiencing healthcare's systemic inefficiencies firsthand during his own patient journey, Sam founded TCB to reject traditional banking models in favor of long-term partnerships that embed early with management teams. His unique three-vertical approach combines banking expertise, clinical advisory, and commercial operations to drive both patient impact and financial success. Join us to discover how Sam's stewardship mindset is empowering healthcare pioneers to scale life-changing innovations. Let's go!Episode Highlights:Patient-First Philosophy: Sam emphasizes that healthcare professionals are "stewards that owe an obligation to the patient," maintaining focus on improving lives rather than just financial returns.Three-Vertical Approach: TCB Capital Advisors uniquely combines banking services, clinical/scientific advisory, and commercial operations to provide comprehensive support beyond traditional investment banking.Underinvested Healthcare Focus: The firm specifically targets neglected areas like oncology screening, neurodegenerative diseases, and women's health where innovation lags despite significant patient need.Real-World Patient Journey Experience: Sam's personal 10-month journey to reach a memory center despite having concierge care and good insurance highlighted systemic healthcare accessibility issues.Predictive Medicine Future: Sam sees AI-powered prognostic tools like Clarity's breast cancer risk assessment as the most promising innovation for identifying high-risk patients earlier and improving outcomes.About our Guest: Sam Libby is the founder and President of TCB Capital Advisors, a firm he created to help healthcare companies scale their impact through strategic transactions and long-term growth planning. With a career spanning roles at premier firms like Piper Sandler and Ziegler, Sam brings deep expertise in M&A, capital markets, and private placements, having completed more than 30 deals totaling over $20 billion in transaction value.Known for his hands-on, partner-oriented approach, Sam works closely with management teams to not only execute transactions but to position companies for enduring success. He has a particular focus on underinvested areas of healthcare—including oncology, women's health, and neurodegenerative disease—and is passionate about supporting founders building scalable solutions with real-world impact.Sam holds degrees in Finance and Accounting from Rutgers University, graduating summa cum laude.Links Supporting This Episode: TCB Capital Advisors Website: CLICK HERESam Libby LinkedIn page: CLICK HERETCB Capital AdvisorsLinkedIn: CLICK HEREMike...

Send us a textSheri raised in South Jersey by a single mom. Her father left the family when she was 3 and was in her life sporadically until she severed the relationship with him when she was 28. Her family has deep roots in a blue collar, Irish Catholic neighborhood in Southwest Philadelphia. Sheri's first introduction to trauma was through a relationship she had in her 20's. She met this man within a year of his return from the first Gulf War where he served on the ground in the Army during Desert Storm. At the time he was suffering from undiagnosed PTSD and was putting himself through art school in Philadelphia. This relationship continued for about 16 years. She was his unconditional support and he was her greatest cheerleader. The experience with him set her on the path to the work she does now. At the age of 27 Sheri enrolled in Rutgers University in Camden where she acquired a BA in Psychology with a minor in Philosophy. During her time at Rutgers she worked as a direct support professional at a Neuro Behavioral Stabilization unit with kids with Autism and other intellectual disabilities who wereexhibited severe crisis behavior. Within a year of graduating, the events of September 11 th occurred and as a result Sheri enrolled at Chestnut Hill College where she received a Master of Science in Counseling and Human Services with a concentration in Psychological Trauma. While completing graduate school Sheri did an internship at the sexual assault crisis center in Camden NJ and provided in home counseling to kids in crisis due to abuse, grief and sometimes a combination of both. She also worked for Children's Mobile Response team in Camden County. In 2009 Sheri started a job as a Behavior Specialist at a school which served students who could not be were not able to be educated in their home districts. The students displayed moderate to severe behavior problems as well as a variety of intellectual, learning and mental health disabilities. While she worked there she became certified as a Board Certified Behavior Analyst and remained in the position for 14 years. Sheri worked individually with students and teachers and provided professional development related to compassionate behavior management and trauma informed care. After short tenures at 2 other public schools in the same role she is taking her career in a new direction and is entering into the realm of consulting.Find The Suffering PodcastThe Suffering Podcast InstagramKevin Donaldson InstagramTom Flynn InstagramApple PodcastSpotifyYouTubeThe Suffering Podcast FamilySherri AllsupSupport the showThe Suffering Podcast Instagram Kevin Donaldson Instagram TikTok YouTube

In this special “Leaders in Law” edition of Lessons in Leadership, Steve Adubato talks with Thomas Scrivo, Managing Partner, O'Toole Scrivo, about leadership, innovation and launching Liberty Bank of NJ. Then, Steve and Mary Gamba are joined by Ralph Gigliotti, PhD, Assistant Vice President for Organizational Leadership, Rutgers University, and Author, “Post-Crisis Leadership,” about the … Continue reading Lessons in Leadership: Tom Scrivo and Ralph Gagliotti

We celebrate this 100th episode with the recipients of The DVC Memorial Scholarship. The 2025 recipients are Taylor Latimer (Harrisburg Memorial Award), Cheryl Dixon (DC Memorial Award), Makenzie Anane Elam (NOMA Award), and Leslie Aileen Ponce-Diaz (Honorable Mention). The conversation opens with introductions from long-time friends of Desiree (Nikolas Hill, Carol Smith Twyman, Morina Peterson, Katherine Williams), who reflect on her legacy and the challenges of navigating the architectural profession. Recipients share how they discovered the scholarship, often through networking at NOMA events, and speak candidly about balancing the demands of rigorous exams with professional responsibilities. Together they explore ways to expand the scholarship's impact by suggesting resources for study materials, fostering stronger community ties among recipients, and establishing a shared network directory. The discussion concludes with heartfelt gratitude for the support and recognition the scholarship provides. This year's recipients each received $1,410 toward their exams.Makenzie Elam is a young black woman born and raised in Durham, North Carolina. She is a three time graduate from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, where she received her Bachelor of Arts in Architecture, Master of Architecture and Master of Urban Design. Makenzie has a passion for teaching and mentorship of not just the next generation of youth, but the next generation of architects and designers. Makenzie currently volunteers at one of her local hospitals as a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit Volunteer as a Baby Cuddler and a Girl Scout Troop Leader/Volunteer for one of the local chapters in her area.A proud native ATL-ien and two-time alumna of Tuskegee University, Cheryl is an architectural designer, who provides a multidisciplinary approach to the built environment. With an affinity for design-build and hands on collaboration, Cheryl values opportunities to connect clients and industry experts to devise innovative solutions. Pairing her background in construction management with her strengths in architectural and interior design, Cheryl enthusiastically enjoys contributing to the full life cycle of a project, from schematic ideation and programmatic strategy to turn-key constructed implementation. Outside of work, Cheryl enjoys spending time with her parents and family, volunteering with graduate members of her sorority, traveling to live music performances, playing tennis, crate digging at vinyl record stores, and trying new vegan eats.Taylor Latimer is a Designer at OCA Architects in Newark, New Jersey. With over seven years of experience in the Architecture field, she has contributed to a wide range of projects across the U.S., including mixed-use residential, educational, public, hospitality, and transportation developments. Taylor brings a distinct lens to her work—one rooted in cultural awareness, user empathy, and social impact. Her approach to design is grounded in the three pillars of sustainability: environmental responsibility, economic viability, and social equity. Taylor holds a Bachelor of Architecture from Carnegie Mellon University and a Master of City and Regional Planning from Rutgers University, with additional studies in business and real estate development. As the current President of the New Jersey chapter of the National Organization of Minority Architects (NOMA), Taylor is a fierce advocate for equity in the profession. In addition to her professional work, Taylor is deeply invested in mentorship and education.

Mike Larkin is the Director of Basketball Operations at Rutgers University. He has been with the Scarlet Knights since 2019. He initially was hired as the Special Assistant to the Head Coach, before earning a promotion to the Director of Basketball Operations role. Larkin previously served at Saint Michael's College where he spent seven seasons on staff, including the last four as associate head coach. Before that Larkin served as a graduate intern for two seasons at Rutgers-Newark and was an assistant coach at Bard (NY) College. Larkin was a Jacob Albright Scholar and a member of the Spanish Honor Society at Albright College, where he helped the Lions to 17-9 records as a junior and senior before earning a Bachelor of Arts in Spanish and a Bachelor of Science in math in 2009.On this episode Mike and Mike discuss the dynamics of collegiate basketball management, the trust and hard work required in today's college basketball environment. Larkin shares that his foremost duty involves alleviating the burdens of the head coach and the entire coaching staff to facilitate their success. Having transitioned through various roles, Larkin reflects on the invaluable lessons gleaned from his experiences at multiple institutions, culminating in his current position, where he navigates the complexities of a high-profile program. He candidly discusses the challenges of maintaining organizational efficiency amidst the heightened scrutiny that accompanies talented players like Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey, who have garnered national attention. Ultimately, Larkin's journey underscores the profound impact of mentorship and the collaborative spirit essential to fostering a thriving basketball environment.Follow us on Twitter and Instagram @hoopheadspod for the latest updates on episodes, guests, and events from the Hoop Heads Pod.Make sure you're subscribed to the Hoop Heads Pod on your favorite podcast app and while you're there please leave us a 5 star rating and review. Your ratings help your friends and coaching colleagues find the show. If you really love what you're hearing recommend the Hoop Heads Pod to someone and get them to join you as a part of Hoop Heads Nation.Jot down some notes as you listen to this episode with Mike Larkin, Director of Basketball Operations at Rutgers University.Website - https://scarletknights.com/sports/mens-basketballEmail - mlarkin@scarletknights.comTwitter/X - @Mike__LarkinVisit our Sponsors!Dr. Dish BasketballThe Dr. Dish Basketball Semi-Annual Sale is live. For a limited time, save up to $4,000 on their lineup of basketball shooting machines. If you're serious about taking your game to the next level, whether you're a player, a parent, or a coach, this is the sale you've been waiting for. Dr. Dish machines are proven to help players improve their shot form, build consistency, and gain the confidence needed on the court. Don't miss out on these limited-time savings. Visit

As you will learn, our guest this time, Walden Hughes, is blind and has a speech issue. However, as you also will discover none of this has stopped Walden from doing what he wants and likes. I would not say Walden is driven. Instead, I would describe Walden as a man of vision who works calmly to accomplish whatever task he wishes to undertake. Walden grew up in Southern California including attending and graduating from the University of California at Irvine. Walden also received his Master's degree from UCI. Walden's professional life has been in the financial arena where he has proven quite successful. However, Walden also had other plans for his life. He has had a love of vintage radio programs since he was a child. For him, however, it wasn't enough to listen to programs. He found ways to meet hundreds of people who were involved in radio and early television. His interviews air regularly on www.yesterdayusa.net which he now directs. Walden is one of those people who works to make life better for others through the various entertainment projects he undertakes and helps manage. I hope you find Walden's life attitude stimulating and inspiring. About the Guest: With deep roots in U.S. history and a lifelong passion for nostalgic entertainment, Walden Hughes has built an impressive career as an entertainment consultant, producer, and historian of old-time radio. Since beginning his collection in 1976, he has amassed over 50,000 shows and has gone on to produce live events, conventions, and radio recreations across the country, interviewing over 200 celebrities along the way. A graduate of UC Irvine with both a BA in Economics and Political Science and an MBA in Accounting/Finance, he also spent a decade in the investment field before fully embracing his love of entertainment history. His leadership includes serving as Lions Club President, President of Radio Enthusiasts of Puget Sound, and long-time board member of SPERDVAC, earning numerous honors such as the Eagle Scout rank, Herb Ellis Award, and the Dick Beals Award. Today, he continues to preserve and celebrate the legacy of radio and entertainment through Yesterday USA and beyond. Ways to connect with Walden: SPERDVAC: https://m.facebook.com/sperdvacconvention/ Yesterday USA: https://www.facebook.com/share/16jHW7NdCZ/?mibextid=wwXIfr REPS: https://www.facebook.com/share/197TW27jRi/?mibextid=wwXIfr About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. We're going to deal with all of that today. We have a guest who I've known for a while. I didn't know I knew him as long as I did, but yeah, but we'll get to that. His name is Walden Hughes, and he is, among other things, the person who is the driving force now behind a website yesterday USA that plays 24 hours a day old radio shows. What I didn't know until he told me once is that he happened to listen to my show back on K UCI in Irvine when I was doing the Radio Hall of Fame between 1969 and 1976 but I only learned that relatively recently, and I didn't actually meet Walden until a few years ago, when we moved down to Victorville and we we started connecting more, and I started listening more to yesterday, USA. We'll talk about some of that. But as you can tell, we're talking, once again, about radio and vintage radio programs, old radio programs from the 30s, 40s and 50s, like we did a few weeks ago with Carl Amari. We're going to have some other people on. Walden is helping us get some other people onto unstoppable mindset, like, in a few weeks, we're going to introduce and talk with Zuzu. Now, who knows who Zuzu is? I know Walden knows, but I'll bet most of you don't. Here's a clue. Whenever a bell rings, an angel gets his wingsu was the little girl on. It's a Wonderful Life. The movie played by Carol from Yeah, and she the star was Carolyn Grimes, and we've met Carolyn. Well, we'll get to all that. I've talked enough. Walden, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're   Walden Hughes ** 03:19 here. Hello, Michael boy, I mean, you, you had John Roy on years ago, and now you finally got to me that's pretty amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 03:25 Well, you know, we should have done it earlier, but that's okay, but, but you know what they say, the best is always saved for last.   Walden Hughes ** 03:34 Hey. Well, you know, considering you've been amazing with this show on Friday night for the last year. So here yesterday, USA, so we you and I definitely know our ins and outs. So this should be an easy our place talk.   Michael Hingson ** 03:47 Yes. Is this the time to tell people that Walden has the record of having 42 tootsie rolls in his mouth at once?   Walden Hughes ** 03:52 That's what they say. I think we could do more, though, you know. But yeah, yeah. Well, we won't ask, miss, yeah, we won't ask you to do that here. Why not?   Michael Hingson ** 04:03 Yeah, we want you to be able to talk. Well, I'm really glad you're here. Tell us a little about the early Walden growing up and all that.   Walden Hughes ** 04:12 I'm my mom and dad are from Nebraska, so I have a lot of Midwestern Nebraska ties. They moved out here for jobs in 65 and I was born in 1966 and I was the first baby to ever survive the world Pierre syndrome, which means I was born with a cleft palate, being extremely near sighted and and a cup and a recession. So I was the first baby through my mom and dad debt by $10,000 in 17 days, and it was a struggle for my folks. You know, in those early days, without insurance, without any. Thing like that. You know, people really didn't think about medical insurance and things like that in those days, that was not an issue. So, um, so I've always had extremely loving family. Then I went through five retina detachments, and starting when I was seven years old, up to I was nine, and I finally woke up one morning seeing white half circle so the retina detached. Sometime in the middle of the night, went to the most famous eye doctor the world at times, Dr Robert macchermer, who was the one who invented the cataract surgery and everything. Later, he wound up being the head of Duke Medical that was down in Florida, and they took one last ditch effort to save my sight, but it was a 2% chance, and it didn't work out. So they went blind in November 75 and went into school for people who may or may not know California pretty aggressive in terms of education, and so when I wear hearing aids, so I parted a hard of hearing class. Newport school. Mesa took care of the kids who were hard of hearing and the blind children went up to Garden Grove. So when I walked my site, went up to Garden Grove. And so that was my dedication. I was always a driven person. So and I also had a family that supported me everything I ever did. They didn't it just they were ultimately supporting me in education, all sorts of stuff. So I wound up in the Boy Scout Program. Wound up being an Eagle Scout like you, wound up being visual honoring the OA. And this was always side of kids. I was sort of the organizer all decided kid, and there was Walden that was right, I was that way in my entire life, which is interesting that the most kids are all hanging out. We were sighted and and even the school district, which was pretty amazing to think about it, Newport, they told my mom and dad, hey, when Wong ready to come back to his home school district, we'll cover the bill. We'll do it. And so my freshman year, after my freshman year in high school, we thought, yeah, it's time to come back. And so the Newport school, Mesa picked up the tab, and so did very well. Went up, applied to seven colleges, Harvard, a Yale Stanford turned me down, but everybody else took me   Michael Hingson ** 07:53 so, but you went to the best school anyway.   Walden Hughes ** 07:57 So I mean, either like Michael Troy went to UCI and I graduated in three years and two quarters with a degree in economics, a degree in politics, a minor in management, and then I went to work as a financial planner with American Express and then a stockbroker. I always wanted to go back get my MBA. So I got my MBA at UCI, and I graduated with my MBA in accounting and finance in 1995 so that's sort of the academic part Wow of my life.   Michael Hingson ** 08:32 How did your parents handle when it was first discovered that you were blind? So that would have been in what 75 how do they handle that?   Walden Hughes ** 08:42 They handle it really well. I think my dad was wonderful. My dad was the one that took, took me my birth, to all the doctor appointments, you know, such a traumatic thing for my mom. So my dad took that responsibility. My mom just clean house. But they, they My dad always thought if I were going to make it through life, it was going to be between my ears. It could be my brain and I, I was gifted and academically in terms of my analytical abilities are really off the chart. They tested me like in 160 and that mean I could take a very complicated scenario, break it down and give you a quick answer how to solve it within seconds. And that that that paid off. So no, I think, and they they had complete and so they put in the time.   Michael Hingson ** 09:47 What kind of work did your dad do? My dad   Walden Hughes ** 09:51 wound up being a real estate agent, okay, and so that gave him flexibility time. My mom wound up working for the Irvine camp. Attorney, which is the big agriculture at that time, now, apartments and commercial real estate here in oil County and so. So with their support and with the emphasis on education, and so they helped me great. They helped my brother a great deal. So I think in my case, having two really actively involved parents paid off, you know, in terms of, they knew where to support me and they knew the one to give me my give me my head, you know, because I would a classic example of this. After I graduated from college at UCI, I was looking for work, and mom said, my mom's saying, oh, keep go to rehab. Talk to them. They're both to help you out, give it. I really wasn't interested, so I sat down and met with them and had several interviews, and they said we're not going to fund you because either A, you're gonna be so successful on your own you pay for your own stuff, or B, you'll completely fail. So when I, and that's when they flat out, told me at rehab, so I I had more more luck in the private sector finding work than I did ever in the public sector, which was interesting.   Michael Hingson ** 11:39 I know that when I was in high school, and they it's still around today, of course, they had a program called SSI through the Department of Social Security, and then that there, there was also another program aid of the potentially self supporting blind, and we applied for those. And when I went to UC Irvine, I had met, actually, in 1964 a gentleman while I was up getting my guide dog. He was getting a guide dog. His name was Howard Mackey, and when I went to college, my parents also explored me getting some services and assistance from the Department of Rehabilitation, and I was accepted, and then Howard Mackey ended up becoming my counselor. And the neat thing about it was he was extremely supportive and really helped in finding transcribers to put physics books in braille, paid for whatever the state did it at the time, readers and other things like that that I needed provided equipment. It was really cool. He was extremely supportive, which I was very grateful for. But yeah, I can understand sometimes the rehabilitation world can be a little bit wonky. Of course, you went into it some 18 to 20 years later than that. I, in a sense, started it because I started in 6869 Yeah. And I think over time, just the state got cheaper, everything got cheaper. And of course, now it's really a lot different than it used to be, and it's a lot more challenging to get services from a lot of the agencies. And of course, in our current administration, a lot of things are being cut, and nobody knows exactly what's going to happen. And that's pretty   Walden Hughes ** 13:30 scary, actually. When I went to UCI, the school picked it up the pic, the school picked up my transcribing. They picked up my readers and all that. So interesting. How?   Michael Hingson ** 13:39 But did they let you hire your own readers and so on? Or do they do that?   Walden Hughes ** 13:43 They just put out the word, and people came up and and they paid them. So they just, they were just looking for volunteer, looking for people on the campus to do all the work. And, yeah, in fact, in fact, I had one gal who read pretty much all my years. She was waiting to get a job in the museum. And the job she wanted, you basically had to die to get it open. And so she for a full time employee with the read, can I be taking 20 units a quarter? Yeah. So I was, I was cranking it out. And in those days, everybody, you were lucky they I was lucky to get the material a week or two before midterm. Yeah, so I would speed up the tape and do a couple all nighters just to get through, because I really didn't want to delay, delay by examinations. I wanted to get it, get it through. But, uh, but, you know, but also, I guess I was going four times just throughout the quarter, set them into the summer. Okay, I wanted to get it done. Yeah, so that's, that's how I   Michael Hingson ** 14:50 did it. I didn't do summer school, but I did 16 to 20 units a quarter as well, and kept readers pretty busy and was never questioned. And even though we have some pretty hefty reader bills, but it it worked, no and and I hired my own readers, we put out the word, but I hired my own readers. And now I think that's really important. If a school pays for the readers, but lets you hire the readers, that's good, because I think that people need to learn how to hire and fire and how to learn what's necessary and how to get the things that they need. And if the agency or the school does it all and they don't learn how to do it, that's a problem.   Walden Hughes ** 15:36 If fashioning is just a sidebar issue, computer really became a big part. And with my hearing loss, TSI was really, yeah, telesensory, the one Incorporated, right? And they were upscale, everybody. It was, you know, $2,500 a pop. And for my hearing, it was the was for the card, the actual card that fits into the slot that would read, oh, okay, okay, right. And eventually they went with software with me, a lot cheaper, yes, and so, so my folks paid for that in the early days, the mid 80s, the computers and the software and a lot of that were trial and error terms of there was not any customer support from the from the computer company that were making special products like that, you were pretty much left on your own to figure it out. Yeah, and so time I went to graduate in 1990 we figured, in the business world, financial planning, I'm gonna need a whole complete setup at work, and we're gonna cost me 20 grand, yeah, and of course, when we have saying, We biking it, we're gonna finance it. What happened was, and this has helped with the scouting program. I knew the vice president of the local bank. And in those days, if it was, if it was still a small bank, he just went, he gave me a personal loan, hmm, and he, I didn't have to get any code centers or anything. No, we're gonna be the first one to finance you. You get your own computer set up. And so they, they, they financed it for me, and then also Boyle kicked in for 7500 but that was, that's how I was able to swing my first really complicated $20,000 units in 1990   Michael Hingson ** 17:33 the Braille Institute had a program. I don't know whether they still do or not they, they had a program where they would pay for, I don't know whether the top was 7500 I know they paid for half the cost of technology, but that may have been the upper limit. I know I used the program to get in when we moved, when we moved to New Jersey. I was able to get one of the, at that time, $15,000 Kurzweil Reading machines that was in 1996 and Braille Institute paid for half that. So it was pretty cool. But you mentioned TSI, which is telesensory Systems, Inc, for those who who wouldn't know that telesensory was a very innovative company that developed a lot of technologies that blind and low vision people use. For example, they developed something called the optic on which was a box that had a place where you could put a finger, and then there was attached to it a camera that you could run over a printed page, and it would display in the box a vibrating image of each character as the camera scanned across the page. It wasn't a really fast reading program. I think there were a few people who could read up to 80 words a minute, but it was still originally one of the first ways that blind people had access to print.   Walden Hughes ** 18:59 And the first guinea pig for the program. Can I just walk my site in 75 and they, they wanted me to be on there. I was really the first one that the school supply the optic on and has special training, because they knew I knew what site looked like for everybody, what Mike's describing. It was dB, the electronic waves, but it'd be in regular print letters, not, not broil waters, right? What   Michael Hingson ** 19:25 you felt were actually images of the print letters, yeah.   Walden Hughes ** 19:30 And the thing got me about it, my hand tingled after a while,   Michael Hingson ** 19:35 yeah, mine   Walden Hughes ** 19:36 to last forever,   Michael Hingson ** 19:38 you know. So it was, it wasn't something that you could use for incredibly long periods of time. Again, I think a few people could. But basically, print letters are made to be seen, not felt, and so that also limited the speed. Of course, technology is a whole lot different today, and the optic on has has faded away. And as Walden said, the card that would. Used to plug into computer slots that would verbalize whatever came across the screen has now given way to software and a whole lot more that makes it a lot more usable. But still, there's a lot of advances to be made. But yeah, we we both well, and another thing that TSI did was they made probably the first real talking calculator, the view, plus, remember   Walden Hughes ** 20:25 that? Yep, I know a good sound quality.   Michael Hingson ** 20:28 Though it was good sound quality. It was $395 and it was really a four function calculator. It wasn't scientific or anything like that, but it still was the first calculator that gave us an opportunity to have something that would at least at a simple level, compete with what sighted people did. And yes, you could plug your phone so they couldn't so sighted people, if you were taking a test, couldn't hear what what the calculator was saying. But at that time, calculators weren't really allowed in the classroom anyway, so   Walden Hughes ** 21:00 my downside was, time I bought the equipment was during the DOS mode, and just like that, window came over, and that pretty much made all my equipment obsolete, yeah, fairly quickly, because I love my boil display. That was terrific for for when you learn with computers. If you're blind, you didn't really get a feel what the screen looked like everybody. And with a Braille display, which mine was half the screen underneath my keyboard, I could get a visual feel how things laid out on the computer. It was easier for me to communicate with somebody. I knew what they were talking   Michael Hingson ** 21:42 about, yeah. And of course, it's gotten so much better over time. But yeah, I remember good old MS DOS. I still love to play some of the old MS DOS games, like adventure and all that, though, and Zork and some of those fun games.   Walden Hughes ** 21:57 But my understanding dos is still there. It's just windows on top of it, basically,   Michael Hingson ** 22:02 if you open a command prompt in Windows that actually takes you to dos. So dos is still there. It is attached to the whole system. And sometimes you can go in and enter commands through dos to get things done a little bit easier than you might be able to with the normal graphic user interface, right? Well, so you, you got your master's degree in 1995 and so you then continue to work in the financial world, or what did   Walden Hughes ** 22:35 it for 10 years, but five years earlier? Well, maybe I should back it up this way. After I lost my site in 1976 I really gravitated to the radio, and my generation fell in love with talk radio, so I and we were really blessed here in the LA market with really terrific hosts at KBC, and it wasn't all the same thing over and over and beating the drum. And so listening to Ray Breen, Michael Jackson, IRA for still kill Hemingway, that was a great opportunity for somebody who was 10 years old.   Michael Hingson ** 23:18 Really, they were all different shows. And yes, I remember once we were listening to, I think it was Michael Jackson. It was on Sunday night, and we heard this guy talking about submarines, and it just attracted Karen's and my attention. And it turns out what it was was Tom Clancy talking about Hunt for Red October. Wow. And that's where we first heard about it, and then went and found the book.   Walden Hughes ** 23:45 But So I grew up in the talk radio, and then that, and I fell in love with country music at the time on koec, and then Jim Healy and sports, yep, and then, and then we were blessed in the LA market have a lot of old time radio played, and it was host like Mike was here at K UCI, John Roy, eventually over KPCC, Bob line. And so my relatives said you should listen to this marathon KPFK, which was a Pacific did an all day marathon. I fell in love with that. Jay Lacher, then one night, after I walked my site, I tuned in. Ray bream took the night off, and Bill balance had frankly sit in. And the first thing they played was Jack Armstrong, and this is where Jack, Jack and Billy get caught up in a snow storm and a bone down the hill. And Brett Morrison came in during the one o'clock two o'clock hour to talk about the shadow. And so my dad took me to, oh, I'm trying to think of the name of the record. Or if they gave away licorice, licorice at the at the record store tower, yeah, not Tower Records. Um, anyway, so we bought two eight track tapes in 1976 the shadow and Superman, and I started my long life of collecting and so. So here we up to 1990 after collecting for 15 years. Going to spill back conventional meetings. I knew Ray bream was going to have kitty Cowan at the guest. Kitty Cowan was a big band singer of the 40s who later the fifth little things mean a lot. And I figured nobody was going to act about her days on the Danny Kaye radio show. And so I called in. They realized I had the stuff. I had the radio shows, they took me off the air, and Kitty's husband, but grand off called me the next day, and we struck up a friendship. And so they were really connected in Hollywood, and so they opened so many doors for me. Mike I Katie's best friend with Nancy Lacher, SR bud with the one of the most powerful agents in town, the game show hosting, who could come up with a TV ideas, but did not know how to run a organization. So that was Chuck Paris, hmm, and Gong Show, yeah, so I wound up, they wound up giving me, hire me to find the old TV shows, the music, all that stuff around the country. And so I started to do that for the Sinatra family, everybody else. So I would, while we do the financial planning, my internet consulting thing really took off. So that wound up being more fun and trying to sell disability insurance, yeah. So one wound up doing that until the internet took over. So that would that. So my whole life would really reshape through kitty Carolyn and Ben granoff through that. So I really connected in the Hollywood industry from that point on, starting 1990 so that that really opened up, that really sure reshaped my entire life, just because of that   Michael Hingson ** 27:28 and you've done over the years, one of the other things that you started to do was to interview a lot of these people, a lot of the radio stars, The radio actors   Walden Hughes ** 27:39 and music and TV, music,   Michael Hingson ** 27:44 yeah.   Walden Hughes ** 27:45 And I think when Bill Bragg asked me to interview kitty Carol, and I did that in 2000 and Bill said, Well, could you do more? And so one of Kitty friends, but test Russell. Test was Gene Autry Girl Friday. He she ran kmpc for him. And I think everybody in the music industry owed her a favor. I mean, I had Joe Stafford to Pat Boone to everybody you could think of from the from that big band, 3040s, and 60s on the show. Let's go   Michael Hingson ** 28:24 back. Let's go back. Tell us about Bill Bragg.   Walden Hughes ** 28:29 Bill Bragg was an interesting character all by himself. Born in 1946 he was a TV camera man for CBS in Dallas. He was also a local music jockey, nothing, nothing, big, big claims of fame boys working for channel two. And then he in Dallas, he was at a press conference with LBJ, and LBJ got done speaking, and the camera crew decided that they were going to pack up and go to lunch. And Bill thought it'd be fun to mark what camera, what microphone the President used for his address, and the guys were in a rush door in the box, let's go have lunch. So Bill lost track, and that bothered him. So he started the largest communication Museum in 1979 and he collected and was donated. And so he had the biggest museum. He had a film exchanger. So in those early days of cable TVs, you know, we had a lot of TV stations specializing in programming, and there were channels, I think this was called a nostalgic channel, wanted to run old TV shows and films. They had the film, but they didn't. Have the equipment. And they got hold of Bill. He said, Okay, I'll do it for you. But what you're going to give me is games. Bill was a wheel and dealer, yeah. And Charlie said, We'll give you your own satellite channel. And I was talking to Bill friend later, John women in those days, in the 1983 when Bill got it, the value of those satellite channels was a million dollars a year, and he got it for free. And Bill would try and figure out, What in the world I'm going to do with this, and that's when he decided to start playing with old time radio, because really nobody was playing that on a national basis. You had different people playing it on a local basis, but not really on a national basis. So Bill was sort of the first one before I play old time radio. I became aware of him because of bur back, so I was trying to get the service on my cable TV company. Was unsuccessful.   Michael Hingson ** 30:58 So what he did is he broadcast through the satellite channel, and then different television stations or companies could if they chose to pick up the feed and broadcast it. Did, they broadcast it on a TV channel or   Walden Hughes ** 31:13 on radio public asset channel. Okay, so remember note day a lot of public it would have the bulletin boards with the local news of right community, and lot of them would play Bill can't   Michael Hingson ** 31:28 play Bill's channel because the only because what they were doing was showing everything on the screen, which didn't help us. But right they would show things on the screen, and they would play music or something in the background. So Bill's programs were a natural thing to play,   Walden Hughes ** 31:44 yeah, and so Bill wound up on a stout then he wound up being the audio shop Troyer for WGN, which was a nice break and so. And then Bill got it to be played in 2000 nursing homes and hospitals, and then local AMFM stations would pick us up. They were looking for overnight programming, so local throughout the country would pick it up. And so Bill, Bill was a go getter. He was a great engineer, and knew how to build things on the cheap. He was not a businessman, you know, he couldn't take it to the next level, but, but at least he was able to come up with a way to run a station, 24 hours a day. It was all the tapes were sent down to Nash, down to Tennessee, to be uploaded to play into the system. Eventually, he built a studio and everything in Dallas. And so,   Michael Hingson ** 32:38 of course, what what Weldon is saying is that that everything was on tape, whether it was cassette or reel to reel, well, reel to reel, and they would play the tapes through a tape machine, a player or recorder, and put it out on the satellite channels, which was how they had to do it. And that's how we did it at kuci, we had tape, and I would record on Sunday nights, all the shows that we were going to play on a given night on a reel of tape. We would take it in and we would play it.   Walden Hughes ** 33:13 And so that's how it's done in the 80s. Eventually built bill, built a studio, and then started to do a live show once a week. Eventually, they grew up to four days a week. And so here is about 1999 or so, and they were playing Musa from kitty cat, and did not know who she was. I would quickly, I would quickly give a couple background from AIM hang up. I didn't really they had no idea who I was yet. I didn't talk about what I would do and things like that. I was just supplying information. And eventually, after two years, they asked me to bring kitty on the show, which I did, and then I started to book guests on a regular basis for them, and then eventually, the guy who I enjoyed all time radio shows listening to Frank Percy 1976 built decided that I should be his producer, and so I wound up producing the Friday Night Live show with Frankie, and eventually we got it up and running, 2002 So Frank and I did it together for 16 years and so that so Bill built a studio in Texas, mailed it all to my House. My dad didn't have any engineering ability. So he and my bill got on the phone and built me a whole studio in six hours, and I was up and running with my own studio here in my bedroom, in 2002 and so overhead, I'm in my bedroom ever since Michael, you know, there you go.   Michael Hingson ** 34:58 Well and to tell people about. Frank Bresee Frank, probably the biggest claim to fame is that he had a program called the golden days of radio, and it was mainly something that was aired in the Armed Forces Radio and Television Service on the radio, where he would every show play excerpts of different radio programs and so on. And one of the neat things that's fascinating for Frank was that because he was doing so much with armed forces, and doing that, he had access to all of the libraries around the world that the Armed Forces Radio and Television Service had, so he could go in and oftentimes get shows and get things that no one else really had because they were only available in at least initially, in these military libraries. But he would put them on the air, and did a great job with it for many, many years. Yeah, Frank   Walden Hughes ** 35:53 was an interesting character, a pure entrepreneur. He invented a game called pass out, which was a drinking game, board game, and he for 20 years, he spent six months in Europe, six months in United States. And he was making so much money in Europe, he would rent out castles and lived in them, and he would and he would spend months at a time in Germany, which was the main headquarter of art, and just sit there in the archives and make copies of things he wanted to play on his show, yeah. And so that's how he built that. And then he he started collecting transcriptions when he would to 10 he was a radio actor, and so he had one of the largest collection, collection, and he his house, his family house was in Hancock Park, which was the, it was Beverly Hills before Beverly Hills, basically, what did he play on radio? Well, when he was, he was he was deceptive. He was the backup little beaver. When someone Tommy, writer, yeah, when, when Tommy Cook had another project, it was Frank be was a substitute. And so that was a short coin of fame. He did bit parts on other shows, but, but that's what he did as a kid. Eventually, I think Frank came from a very wealthy family. He wound up owning the first radio station when he was 19 years old on Catalina Island in 1949 and then he wound up being a record producer. He worked with Walter Winchell, created albums on without about Al Jolson worked on Eddie Cantor and Jimmy Durante and anyway, Frank, Frank had a career with game with creating board games, doing radio and having an advertising company. Frank was responsible for giving all the game shows, the prices for TV and the way he would do it, he would call an advertise, he would call a company. He said, you want your product. Beyond on this section, go to say, yes, okay, give us, give us the product, and give me 150 bucks. And so Frank would keep the cash, and he would give the project to the TV shows,   Michael Hingson ** 38:17 Dicker and Dicker of Beverly Hills. I remember that on so many shows   Walden Hughes ** 38:23 so So Frank was a wheeling dealer, and he loved radio. That was his passion project. He probably made less money doing that, but he just loved doing it, and he was just hit his second house. The family house was 8400 square feet, and so it was pretty much a storage unit for Frank hobbies, right? And we and he had 30,000 transcriptions in one time. But when he was Europe, he had a couple of floods, so he lost about 10 to 20,000 of them. Okay? Folks did not know how to keep them dry, but he had his professional studio built. And so I would book guests. I arranged for art link writer to come over, and other people, Catherine Crosby, to come over, and Frank would do the interviews. And so I was a big job for me to keep the Friday night show going and get Frankie's guess boy shows. I would have been. He died,   Michael Hingson ** 39:22 and he was a really good interviewer. Yeah, I remember especially he did an interview that we in, that you played on yesterday USA. And I was listening to it with Mel Blanc, which is, which is very fascinating. But he was a great interviewer. I think it was 1969 that he started the golden days of radio, starting 49 actually, or 49 not 69 Yeah, 49 that was directly local, on,   Walden Hughes ** 39:49 on Carolina, and K, I, G, l, which was a station I think heard out in the valley, pretty much, yeah, we could pick it up. And then, and then he started with on. Forces around 65   Michael Hingson ** 40:02 that's what I was thinking of. I thought it was 69 but,   Walden Hughes ** 40:06 and well, he was, on those days there were armed forces Europe picked them up. And also, there was also the international Armed Forces served around the far eastern network, right? Yeah. And so by 67 he was pretty much full on 400 stations throughout the whole world. And I that's probably how you guys picked him up, you know, through that capability.   Michael Hingson ** 40:30 Well, that's where I first heard of him and and the only thing for me was I like to hear whole shows, and he played excerpts so much that was a little frustrating. But he was such a neat guy, you couldn't help but love all the history that he brought to it   Walden Hughes ** 40:46 and and then he would produce live Christmas shows with with the radio. He would interview the guest he, you know, so he had access to people that nobody generally had, you know. He worked for Bob Hope, right? So he was able to get to Jack Benny and Bing Crosby and yes, people like that, Groucho Marx. So he was, he had connections that were beyond the average Old Time Radio buff. He was truly a great guy to help the hobby out, and loved radio very much.   Michael Hingson ** 41:21 Well, going back to Bill Bragg a little bit, so he had the satellite channel, and then, of course, we got the internet, which opened so many things for for Frank or Frank for, well, for everybody but for Bill. And he started the program yesterday, usa.net, on the radio through the internet,   Walden Hughes ** 41:44 which he was the first one in 1996 right? There's a great story about that. There was a company called broadcast.com I bet you remember that company, Mike. Anyway, it was founded by a guy who loved college basketball, and he was a big Hoosier fan, and he was living in Texas, and so he would generally call long distance to his buddy, and they would put up the radio. He could went to the basketball games. And eventually he decided, well, maybe I could come up and stream it on my computer, and all these equipment breaking down, eventually he came up with the idea of, well, if I had a satellite dish, I could pick up the feed and put and stream it on the computer, that way people could hear it right. And he hired bill to do that, and he offered bill a full time job installing satellites and working Bill turned them down, and the guy wound up being Mark Cuban. Yeah, and Mark Cuban gave every every employee, when he sold broadcast.com to Yahoo, a million dollar bonus. So Bill missed out on that, but, but in exchange, Mike Cuban gave him broadcast.com While USA channel for free. So Bill never had to pay in the early days, until about 2002 so when Yahoo decided to get out of the streaming business for a while, then that's when we had to find and we found life 365 eventually, and we were paying pretty good. We're paying a really good rate with like 265 Bill was used to paying free, and we were paying, I think, under $100 and I knew guys later a couple years, were paying over $500 a month. And we were, we were, but there was such a willing deal able to get those things for really dope less   Michael Hingson ** 43:45 money, yeah. Now I remember being in New Jersey and I started hearing ads for an internet radio station. This was in the very late 90s, maybe even into 2000 W, A, B, y. It was a company, a show that a station that played a lot of old songs from the 50s and 60s and so on. And it was, it was, if you tuned on to it, you could listen. And after four or five hours, things would start to repeat, and then eventually it disappeared. But I started looking around, and I don't even remember how I found it, but one day I heard about this radio station, www, dot yesterday, usa.net. Right, yep.net.com,   Walden Hughes ** 44:31 yep, and yeah. And   Michael Hingson ** 44:33 I said, Well, oh, I think I actually heard an ad for it on W, A, B, y, when it was still around. Anyway, I went to it, and they were playing old radio shows, and they had a number of people who would come on and play shows. Everyone had an hour and a half show, and every two weeks you would have to send in a new show. But they. They played old radio shows, 24 hours a day and seven days a week, except they also had some live talk shows. And I remember listening one day and heard Bill Bragg talking about the fact that he was going to have his standard Friday night show with Walden Hughes, it would start at nine o'clock. I had no idea who Walden was at the time. And the problem is, nine o'clock was on the in Pacific Time, and it was, I think, Midnight in New Jersey time, as I recall the way it went anyway, it was way too late for me to be up. And so I never did hear Walden on yesterday USA, or I may have actually listened. Just stayed up to listen to one and fell asleep, but the show, the whole innovative process of playing radio all the time on the internet, was intriguing and just opened so many opportunities, I think. And of course, the internet brought all that around. And now there are any number of stations that stream all the time. And Bill Bragg passed away. What in 2016   Walden Hughes ** 46:15 2018   Michael Hingson ** 46:18 1819 2019 Yeah. And Walden now is the person who directs, operates, and is the manager of yesterday USA. And so when I go ahead,   Walden Hughes ** 46:30 it's fascinating. In the height of the station, there was 15,000 internet radio stations out there in 2000 they did a survey yesterday, USA was number three in the world, behind the BBC and CNN, which I thought was a pretty nice number to be concerned. We had no budget to promote, right? And the last time I saw the numbers been a couple years, we were number 44 in the world, which I don't think of, 15,000 radio stations. Not bad. No, not at all. You know, really not bad. But now there is more talk than there used to be, because Walden and the gasmans, who we had on years ago on this podcast, but   Michael Hingson ** 47:16 have interviewed a lot of people, and continue to interview people. And of course, so many people are passing on that. We're trying to talk to people as much as we can, as they can, and all of us now, because I've started to come a little bit and become a little bit involved in yesterday USA. And as Walden said on Friday night at 730 Pacific Time, see it's earlier, we we do a talk show. Bob Lyons, who did a lot of radio out here, and for 50 years, had a program called Don't touch that dial. And John and Larry and Walden and I get on the air and we talk about, Gosh, any number of different things. We've talked about Braille, we've talked about sometimes, everything but radio. But we talk about a lot of different things, which is, which is a lot of fun.   Walden Hughes ** 48:04 And I think it probably is, you know, in the old days, it would pretty much no entertainment, and Bill telling some stories and things like that. But with me, I always had a focus in interviews, but it's so much more fun to do radio as a co host. And that's when Patricia and I connected back in the 2007 I knew was in 2005 she's my co host. And Patricia didn't grow up with whole town radio. She became a fan after she found yesterday, USA into 2000 but she's a very articulate person, and so through the shows, what she and I did on Saturday night, the audience grab it and just we should talk about everything, and I just generate calls. I mean, when she and I were doing eight hours a night, we would average about 18 calls a night, which was pretty amazing, but we would cover the gamut, and I think a really good talk show host had to know a little bit about a lot of things. Yes, he got it. You got to be flexible. And Patricia and I compliment each other that way, that we're able to cover history and politics and music and just everything. And so when I do a show with her, you never know what direction we go with where. When I'm with John Roy, it's more radio centric. So it depends on what night a week people tune in, is what you're going to   Michael Hingson ** 49:40 get. And Walden has Patricia on now Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, but we know why she's really on there, because she likes hearing Perry Como song Patricia that starts out every show Walden plays that he's in love with Patricia. One of these days, there's still the possibility. But anyway, we. We, he, we love it when he, he has Patricia on, and it's every week. So, so it is really cool. And they do, they talk about everything under the sun, which is so fascinating. Tell us about Johnny and Helen Holmes.   Walden Hughes ** 50:15 Ah, well, it's an interesting story. I I say the second biggest old time radio station in the country, after yesterday USA. It's about half the size in terms of audience basis. Radio once more, and you can find them at Radio once more.com and they do a good job. No else with probably yesterday USA branch offers own internet radio station, and he found he would go to the east coast to the nostalgic convention, and he connected with Johnny and Helen. Holmes and Johnny and Helen are people who love to attend nostalgic convention and get autographs and things. And they became really friends. So Neil convinced them, why don't you come on? Just come on radio once more. And so after a while, they do the presentation the coffee shop. Neil convinced them to take it, take it to the air, and they started to have their own show, and I was aware of them, and I produced the spirback convention, 2017 in Las Vegas. So Johnny helm came to the convention, and Johnny wanted to say hi to me. I said, I know who you are. I think he was for by that that I knew who he was, but I invited Johnny and Helen to come on with Patricia and I one night to talk about their coffee shop presentation and their show on Radio once more. And we just bonded very quickly and easy to bond with Johnny. They really are really fabulous people. He's really a generous guy, and so over the last six, seven years, we have developed a great friendship on you, and almost have created a whole subculture by itself, playing trivia with them. Every time they come on,   Michael Hingson ** 52:17 they do a lot of trivia stuff, and Johnny produces it very well. He really does a great job. And he'll put sound bites and clips and music, and it's gotten me such a major production with Johnny and Helen. And people look forward to it. I sometimes count the interaction people hanging out in the chat room, on the phone, email, about 18 to 20 people will get and get an answer question, was it amazing that that many people will be interested in trivia like that? But and, and Johnny also collects, well, I guess in Helen collect a lot of old television shows as well. Yep. So we won't hold it against him too much, but, but he does television and, well, I like old TV shows too, you bet. Well, so you know, you are, obviously, are doing a lot of different things. You mentioned spurred vac oop. They're after you. We'll wait. We'll wait till the phone die. You mentioned, well, I'll just ask this while that's going on. You mentioned spurred back. Tell us a little bit about what spurred vac is and what they've been doing and what they bring to radio.   Walden Hughes ** 53:23 Sprint vac started in 1974 it's the largest full time radio group in the country, called the society to preserve and encourage radio drama, variety and comedy. John Roy Gasman were two of the main driving force behind the club. It reached up to a membership of 1800 people, and they've honored over 500 people who worked in the golden days of radio and to speak at their meeting, come to the special conventions. And so I attended some dinners at the Brown Derby, which was a great thrill. I started attending their conventions, and it was just, it was wonderful. So I so I really got to meet a lot of the old time radio personality and become friends with Janet Waldo and June for a and people like that. And so I eventually got on the board. I eventually became one young, somewhat retired. I wound up being the activity person to book guests, and started producing conventions. And so that became a major part of my life, just producing those things for spur back and in other places, and I first started to do that for reps. Was it the Old Time Radio Group in Seattle in 2007 so they were actually the first convention I produced.   Michael Hingson ** 54:54 And rep says radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound,   Walden Hughes ** 54:57 right? Reps online.org, G and so I would produce new convention. I was helping super vac, and I also helping the Friends of all time radio back in New Jersey and so. And it probably helped my contact, which is 300 pages long, so, and I would book it. I would also contact celebrities via the mail, and my batting average was 20% which I thought were pretty good. I got Margaret. I got Margaret Truman. She called me, said, Walden, I got your order, and I forgot that I did the show with Jimmy Stewart. I'd be happy to come on talk about my memory. You know, she talked about Fred Allen on the big show, and how, how Mike Wallace had a temper, had a temper. She was a co host. Was among weekdays, which with the weekday version of monitor. Monitor was weekend and weekday, we see NBC. And so she was just fabulous, you know, so and I would get people like that 20% bad average, which was incredible. So I met, that's how it's up to two, my guess was, so I, I was sort of go to guy, find celebrities and booking them and and so in that help yesterday, USA helped the different conventions. And so it and so you're so you're booking the panels, and then you're coming up with ideas for radio recreations. And so I produce 37 of them, ranging from one day to four days. And I get counted, over the last 18 years, I've produced 226 audio theater plays with it. A lot at least, have an idea of how those things   Michael Hingson ** 56:55 work. So right now, speaking of recreations, and we're both involved in radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound, and for the last couple of years, I've participated in this. Walden has done radio recreations, and twice a year up in the Washington State area, where we bring in both some some amateurs and some professionals like Carolyn Grimes Zuzu and so many others who come in and we actually recreate old radio shows, both before a live audience, and we broadcast them on yesterday USA and other people like Margaret O'Brien who won   Walden Hughes ** 57:46 Gigi Powell coming this year. Phil Proctor. David Osmond from fire sign theater. Chuck Dougherty from Sergeant Preston. John Provo from Timmy from Lassie, Bill Johnson, who does a one man show on Bob Hope. Bill Ratner from GI Joe. Bill Owen, the who might have had he is the author of The Big broadcast, Ivan Troy who Bobby Benson, Tommy cook from the life O'Reilly Gigi parole, a movie actress of the 50s, as you mentioned, Carolyn grime, Beverly Washburn and others, and it's just the radio folks are really down to earth, really nice people, and you get to break bread with them, talk to them and reminisce about what was it like doing that radio show, this movie, or that TV show, and then They still got it, and they can perform on stage,   Michael Hingson ** 58:43 and they love to talk about it, and they love to interact with people who treat them as people. And so yeah, it is a lot of fun to be able to do it. In fact, I was on Carolyn Grimes podcast, which will be coming out at some point in the next little while, and Carolyn is going to be on unstoppable mindset. So keep an eye out for that. Bill Owens program is coming out soon. Bill and I did a conversation for unstoppable mindset, and we're going to be doing Bill Johnson will be coming on, and other people will be coming on. Walden has been very helpful at finding some of these folks who are willing to come on and talk about what they did, and to help us celebrate this medium that is just as much a part of history as anything in America and is just as worth listening to as it ever was. There is more to life than television, no matter what they think.   Walden Hughes ** 59:40 And also, we do a Christmas thing too. And hopefully Mike, if his speaking engagement allow him, will be with us up at Christmas saying, Well, I will. I'm planning on it. We're gonna do, It's a Wonderful Life. Keith Scott, coming over from Australia, who's a he's the rich little of Australia. And we'll do, It's a Wonderful Life. We'll do. The Christmas Carol, milk on 34th Street film again, Molly Jack Benny will have a great time.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:07 These are all going to be recreations using the the original scripts from the shows, and that's what makes them fun. And for those of us who don't read print, we do have our scripts in Braille, absolutely so that's kind of fun. Well, Walden, this has been absolutely wonderful. We're going to have to do it some more. Maybe we need to get you, John and Larry all together on that. That might be kind of fun. But I really, I don't think we need a host if you that. No, no, we just, you know, just go on. But this has been really fun. I really enjoy it. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Walden Hughes ** 1:00:45 Oh, I think they can call my studio number 714-545-2071, I'm in California, or they can email me at Walden shoes at yesterday, usa.com, W, A, l, D, E, N, H, U, C, H, E, S at, y, E, S T, E, R, D, A, y, u, s a.com, I'm the president of radio enthusiast sound, that's reps online.org or on the board of Sper back, which is S, P, E, R, D, V, A, c.com, so while waiting shakes me down, when   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:25 will the showcase actually occur up in Bellevue in Washington?   Walden Hughes ** 1:01:30 That will be September 18, 19 20/21, and then our Christmas one is will be Friday, December five, and Saturday, December the sixth. And then we're also going back and spir back, and I bet we'll see you there. We're going to go back to the Troy Blossom Festival next April, 23 to 26 and we'll know, are we set up to do that now? Yep, looks like that gonna happen? Yeah? Oh, good, yeah. So kick out the phone with Nicholas here a few days ago. So everything's gonna go for that, so that will be good.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:03 Yeah, we will do that. That's cool. Well, thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening. I hope you had fun. This is a little different than a lot of the episodes that we've done, but it's, I think, important and enlightening to hear about this medium into to meet people from it. So thank you for listening wherever you are. We hope that you'll give us a five star review of unstoppable mindset wherever you're listening or watching. Please do that. We'd love to hear from you. You can reach me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and you can also go to our podcast page if you don't find podcasts any other way. Michael hingson.com/podcast, that's m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, n.com/podcast, singular. So thanks again for being here and for listening to the show, and Walden, once again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been great.   Walden Hughes ** 1:03:01 Thank you, Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:07 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Episode Summary: In this episode of the Solar Maverick Podcast, host Benoy Thanjan sits down with Daniel Dus, CEO of Clean Tech Industry Resources (CIR) and founder of Solar Fight Night. Daniel shares his unique perspective on how his company is reshaping solar development through “Development as a Service” and “Construction as a Service” models, making it easier for developers, financiers, and EPCs to scale projects efficiently. Benoy and Daniel dive into industry trends, lessons learned from years of experience, and how CIR is positioning itself as a critical partner in today's fast-changing renewable energy landscape. The conversation also highlights one of the largest renewable-energy fundraising events coming up at RE+ in Las Vegas, Solar Fight Night, and why community and collaboration are more important than ever.   Biographies Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy, solar developer and consulting firm, and a strategic advisor to multiple cleantech startups. Over his career, Benoy has developed over 100 MWs of solar projects across the U.S., helped launch the first residential solar tax equity funds at Tesla, and brokered $45 million in Renewable Energy Credits (“REC”) transactions. Prior to founding Reneu Energy, Benoy was the Environmental Commodities Trader in Tesla's Project Finance Group, where he managed one of the largest environmental commodities portfolios. He originated REC trades and co-developed a monetization and hedging strategy with senior leadership to enter the East Coast market. As Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners, Benoy crafted project finance solutions for commercial-scale solar portfolios. His role at Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund with 125 MWs of U.S. renewable assets, involved evaluating investment opportunities and maximizing returns. He also played a key role in the sale of the firm's renewable portfolio. Earlier in his career, Benoy worked in Energy Structured Finance at Deloitte & Touche and Financial Advisory Services at Ernst & Young, following an internship on the trading floor at D.E. Shaw & Co., a multi billion dollar hedge fund. Benoy holds an MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from NYU Stern, where he was an Alumni Scholar.   Daniel Dus 18 years in renewable energy C-suite and Board roles, overseeing the completion of over $1 billion worth of renewable energy projects spanning 23 states nationwide. MBA, Stanford Certified Project Manager, Villanova Certified Six Sigma Master Lean Blackbelt, Certificates in Energy Hedging, NERC, Grid Security and SCADA. Previously led the US division of a $32 billion top-three global, fully integrated renewable energy platform, which encompassed PV manufacturing to asset ownership, and was a vital part of a $100 billion multinational corporation. Achieved notable project honors, including a Congressional Certificate of Recognition from the US House of Representatives, Recognition for an Innovative Public-Private Partnership from The White House, and the title of Best Solar Collaboration by Solar Power Generation USA. Served a diverse array of clients, including JP Morgan Chase, Hertz, Westfield Malls, Bridgestone, UCLA, Intuit, Hilton, Panasonic, Macerich, CBS Studios, and numerous cities, such as Los Angeles, Pasadena, San Diego, Santa Monica, Breckenridge, Aurora, Orange, and Southbridge. Seasoned executive with extensive experience in the renewable energy sector. Recognized as the Founder of Shared Estates and Co-Founder of Solar Fight Night, the largest renewable energy non-profit fundraiser worldwide.   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com    Daniel Dus Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielrdus/ Website:  https://cleantechindustryresources.com/ Solar Fight Night:  https://www.solarfightnight.org/   This episode of the Solar Maverick Podcast is brought to you by Leo Berwick. Leo Berwick is a tax, valuation, cost segregation, modeling and financial due diligence advisory firm focused on infrastructure, energy, renewables, and private equity. They are a carefully curated team of top talent within each of these core disciplines. Their sector focus and coordinated teams allow them to move fast, stay efficient, and get deals done.  Whether it's tax structuring, due diligence, financial modeling, valuations, or post-deal support, Leo Berwick covers the full deal lifecycle.  With decades of experience and an acute awareness of commercial considerations that can make or break a deal, Leo Berwick is helping investors unlock value in some of the most important sectors of the future.  To learn more, visit leoberwick.com.

Diverse Voices Book Review host Hopeton Hay interviewed  Naa Oyo Kwate, author of  WHITE BURGERS, BLACK CASH: Food from Black Exclusion to Exploitation.In the interview, they discussed the fast-food industry and its impact on health disparities in the Black community.  They also explored the complex relationship between Black communities and fast food and the industry history.Naa Oyo A. Kwate is a nonfiction writer and interdisciplinary scholar focused on African American urban life. She has previously served on the faculties of Columbia and Rutgers University. 

Anthony says that he did experience abuse and trauma as a youth, but he persevered and came out of his youth a better person for the experiences. He never finished formal college, but he said that the university of life taught him so much more than he could have ever learned through more traditional schooling.   Anthony has had over 3 and a half decades serving as a business consultant, executive coach, and human optimizer, Coach Cudjo has cracked the code on optimizing your body, health, wealth, and life. Coach Cudjo unashamedly tells us of his growing relationship with God that began with a pastor of a new church knocking on his door one day when Anthony was about to commit suicide. The knock on the door stayed his hand.   Today Mr. Cudjo is not only a business consultant and coach, but he also is a pastor himself. My conversation with Anthony is far ranging and covers subjects including his current activities, our personal relationships with God and how Anthony brings all that together through is human optimization system called H3O. He even offers you a free gift of a phone call with him to show you how you can better yourself, your mind, and your spirit connection. Take Anthony up on his offer. You might be quite pleasantly surprised at what happens.     About the Guest:   Founder and Head Coach at Human Optimization 3.0 (H3O), Anthony Cudjo (AKA “Coach Cudjo”), is the leading expert in performance by optimizing various aspects of life, including physical, mental, and emotional health. He has been coined the Teacher of Teachers and the Leader of Leaders! With over three and a half decades as a business consultant, executive coach, and human optimizer, Coach Cudjo has cracked the code on optimizing your body, health, wealth, and life. He will teach you how to tap into and maximize the creative forces of your DNA.   Anthony transforms the lives of individuals and entire communities by teaching the daily mechanics of mastering their physical existence through the synergistic harmonization of spirit, mind, and body. He educates, motivates, and empowers individuals to reconnect with and reactivate their Divine Intelligence (DNA) and harmonize the three power centers that govern our decisions, actions, and external manifestations. He got here by questioning the abuse, doubt, fear, anxiety, and anger in his own life. These feelings and experiences became the bricks of the foundation of his Power-Full new life. Tony is a graduate of the Dale Carnegie School of Leadership and Development and the Landmark Forum. He is an Advanced NLP Practitioner, certified personal trainer, life coach, nutritionist, and metabolic specialist with a background as a professional athlete in boxing, powerlifting, and bodybuilding. As a TV and radio personality, Tony has hosted the "FitnessRx Show" on ESPN Radio, sharing health and wellness insights with a broad audience. 37 years and thousands of clients later, he has cracked the code to Human Optimization, which is H30!   Ways to connect with Anthony:   Website: https://urh3o.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-cudjo-a2928567/ Facebook: Facebook.com/Humanoptimization3.0 Instagram: Instagram.com/Humanoptimization3.0 Youtube: Youtube.com/@Humanoptimization3.0     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:

This week on the Tidechasers Podcast we're joined at the round table by special guest host Paul from Great Bay Outfitters. Paul has been working closely with Chase from Rutgers University, who is also collaborating with Dr. Keith Dunton of Monmouth University, on several exciting marine research projects. In this episode, we dive into some thought-provoking science topics including offshore wind farms, sturgeon conservation, and fluke migrations that are sure to bring out the marine biology nerd in all of us. From there, we shift gears to one of the hottest fisheries in recent years: sheepshead. We break down the explosive growth of this fishery, the importance of ongoing research, and how new tagging efforts both traditional and acoustic are helping us better understand these fascinating fish. Whether you're a passionate angler, a marine biologist, or just curious about the science happening in our local waters, this episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss Tide Chasers is a weekly podcast featuring local fishermen, charter captains, tackle shop owners and party boat captains among others. We discuss our local fisheries as well as opportunities to the north and south of our home waters of PA/NJ. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest, send us a message! Otherwise, we appreciate all the likes, shares, follows and subscribers as it helps us grow! Help us get the word out, hit that share button! Where to find Tide Chasers on Social media: Instagram: @tide_chasers Facebook: www.Facebook.com/tidechaserspodcast Hosts: Khoa @thatasianangler Bobby @fishingwithaphd Lee @ljssurfing Tyler @tmwilczek Guest : Chase Wunder IG:cwunder26 Keith Dunton IG : duntonlab Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why do Americans eat so much beef? In Red Meat Republic: A Hoof-to-Table History of How Beef Changed America (Princeton University Press, 2019), the historian Joshua Specht provides a history that shows how our diets and consumer choices remain rooted in nineteenth century enterprises. A century and half ago, he writes, the colonialism and appropriation of indigenous lands enabled the expansion of western ranch outfits. These corporate ranchers controlled loose commodity chains, until powerful corporate meat packers in Chicago seized the economic order through the tools of modern capitalism (scientific management, standardization, labor suppression). These capitalists expanded the supply chains to far-flung consumers in New York and around the globe. But as meat became a staple of the American diet, and measure of progress, consumers cared more about the price and taste than the violence to people, animals, and environment behind the scenes. “America made modern beef” Specht writes, “at the same time that beef made America modern.” Ryan Driskell Tate is a Ph.D. candidate in American history at Rutgers University. He is completing a book on fossil-fuels and energy development in the American West. He teaches courses on modern US history, environmental history, and histories of labor and capitalism. @rydriskelltate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Why do Americans eat so much beef? In Red Meat Republic: A Hoof-to-Table History of How Beef Changed America (Princeton University Press, 2019), the historian Joshua Specht provides a history that shows how our diets and consumer choices remain rooted in nineteenth century enterprises. A century and half ago, he writes, the colonialism and appropriation of indigenous lands enabled the expansion of western ranch outfits. These corporate ranchers controlled loose commodity chains, until powerful corporate meat packers in Chicago seized the economic order through the tools of modern capitalism (scientific management, standardization, labor suppression). These capitalists expanded the supply chains to far-flung consumers in New York and around the globe. But as meat became a staple of the American diet, and measure of progress, consumers cared more about the price and taste than the violence to people, animals, and environment behind the scenes. “America made modern beef” Specht writes, “at the same time that beef made America modern.” Ryan Driskell Tate is a Ph.D. candidate in American history at Rutgers University. He is completing a book on fossil-fuels and energy development in the American West. He teaches courses on modern US history, environmental history, and histories of labor and capitalism. @rydriskelltate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/environmental-studies

Why do Americans eat so much beef? In Red Meat Republic: A Hoof-to-Table History of How Beef Changed America (Princeton University Press, 2019), the historian Joshua Specht provides a history that shows how our diets and consumer choices remain rooted in nineteenth century enterprises. A century and half ago, he writes, the colonialism and appropriation of indigenous lands enabled the expansion of western ranch outfits. These corporate ranchers controlled loose commodity chains, until powerful corporate meat packers in Chicago seized the economic order through the tools of modern capitalism (scientific management, standardization, labor suppression). These capitalists expanded the supply chains to far-flung consumers in New York and around the globe. But as meat became a staple of the American diet, and measure of progress, consumers cared more about the price and taste than the violence to people, animals, and environment behind the scenes. “America made modern beef” Specht writes, “at the same time that beef made America modern.” Ryan Driskell Tate is a Ph.D. candidate in American history at Rutgers University. He is completing a book on fossil-fuels and energy development in the American West. He teaches courses on modern US history, environmental history, and histories of labor and capitalism. @rydriskelltate

Why do Americans eat so much beef? In Red Meat Republic: A Hoof-to-Table History of How Beef Changed America (Princeton University Press, 2019), the historian Joshua Specht provides a history that shows how our diets and consumer choices remain rooted in nineteenth century enterprises. A century and half ago, he writes, the colonialism and appropriation of indigenous lands enabled the expansion of western ranch outfits. These corporate ranchers controlled loose commodity chains, until powerful corporate meat packers in Chicago seized the economic order through the tools of modern capitalism (scientific management, standardization, labor suppression). These capitalists expanded the supply chains to far-flung consumers in New York and around the globe. But as meat became a staple of the American diet, and measure of progress, consumers cared more about the price and taste than the violence to people, animals, and environment behind the scenes. “America made modern beef” Specht writes, “at the same time that beef made America modern.” Ryan Driskell Tate is a Ph.D. candidate in American history at Rutgers University. He is completing a book on fossil-fuels and energy development in the American West. He teaches courses on modern US history, environmental history, and histories of labor and capitalism. @rydriskelltate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/economics

Why do Americans eat so much beef? In Red Meat Republic: A Hoof-to-Table History of How Beef Changed America (Princeton University Press, 2019), the historian Joshua Specht provides a history that shows how our diets and consumer choices remain rooted in nineteenth century enterprises. A century and half ago, he writes, the colonialism and appropriation of indigenous lands enabled the expansion of western ranch outfits. These corporate ranchers controlled loose commodity chains, until powerful corporate meat packers in Chicago seized the economic order through the tools of modern capitalism (scientific management, standardization, labor suppression). These capitalists expanded the supply chains to far-flung consumers in New York and around the globe. But as meat became a staple of the American diet, and measure of progress, consumers cared more about the price and taste than the violence to people, animals, and environment behind the scenes. “America made modern beef” Specht writes, “at the same time that beef made America modern.” Ryan Driskell Tate is a Ph.D. candidate in American history at Rutgers University. He is completing a book on fossil-fuels and energy development in the American West. He teaches courses on modern US history, environmental history, and histories of labor and capitalism. @rydriskelltate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/science-technology-and-society

Why do Americans eat so much beef? In Red Meat Republic: A Hoof-to-Table History of How Beef Changed America (Princeton University Press, 2019), the historian Joshua Specht provides a history that shows how our diets and consumer choices remain rooted in nineteenth century enterprises. A century and half ago, he writes, the colonialism and appropriation of indigenous lands enabled the expansion of western ranch outfits. These corporate ranchers controlled loose commodity chains, until powerful corporate meat packers in Chicago seized the economic order through the tools of modern capitalism (scientific management, standardization, labor suppression). These capitalists expanded the supply chains to far-flung consumers in New York and around the globe. But as meat became a staple of the American diet, and measure of progress, consumers cared more about the price and taste than the violence to people, animals, and environment behind the scenes. “America made modern beef” Specht writes, “at the same time that beef made America modern.” Ryan Driskell Tate is a Ph.D. candidate in American history at Rutgers University. He is completing a book on fossil-fuels and energy development in the American West. He teaches courses on modern US history, environmental history, and histories of labor and capitalism. @rydriskelltate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our guest this time is Kay Thompson. As Kay says in her bio, she is a minister, TV show host, author, Realtor® and business owner. If that isn't enough, she has raised a son and a daughter. Kay grew up, as she says, a military brat. She has lived in a number of places around the world. Like others we have had the pleasure to have as guests, her travels and living in various places and countries has made her curious and given her a broad perspective of life.   After high school she went to college. This life was a bit of a struggle for her, but the day came when she realized that college would be a positive thing for her. She will tell us the story.   After college she and her second husband, her first one died, moved to Atlanta where she has now resided for over 30 years. Kay always has had a strong faith. However, the time came when, as she explains, she actually heard God calling her to go into the ministry. And so, she did.   Kay tells us about how she also has undertaken other endeavors including writing, selling real estate and working as a successful Television host. It goes without saying that Kay Thompson performs daily a number of tasks and has several jobs she accomplishes. I hope you will be inspired by Kays's work. Should you wish to contact Kay, visit her website www.kaythompson.org.     About the Guest:   Kay Thompson is a minister, TV show host, author, Realtor® and business owner. She is the founder of Kay Thompson Ministries International, a kingdom resource for healing, hope and spiritual development. Kay is also the founder of Legacy Venture Group, a consulting and media firm which has helped countless businesses, organizations and individuals to strategically maximize potential. Kay holds a BA in Art History from Rutgers University in Camden, NJ, and an MA in Christian Ministry from Mercer University in Atlanta, GA. She is the former program director of WGUN 1010 in Atlanta and hosted the Kay Thompson TV Show, which aired on WATC-TV 57 in Atlanta. She currently hosts for the Atlanta Live broadcast on TV- 57. Kay is a member of the staff for the Studio Community Fellowship at Trillith Studios in Fayetteville, and is a host for their weekly service. She also serves as a member of the Board of Advisors for the A.D. King Foundation and works with several other non­ profit organizations in the Metro Atlanta area. Kay has lived in Georgia for over thirty years and is a resident of Stockbridge. She has two wonderful children: Anthony (Jasmine) and Chanel; and one grandchild, AJ. Kay enjoys reading, bowling and spending time with her family.   Ways to connect with Kay:   Facebook (Kay Thompson Ministries) https://www.facebook.com/kaythompsonministries Instagram (@kayrthompson) https://www.instagram.com/kayrthompson/     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:17 Hi, everyone. I would like to say greetings wherever you happen to be today, we have a wonderful guest today. This is a woman, I would say, of many, many talents. I've been looking forward to this for a while. Kay Thompson is a minister, a TV host. She's an author, she's a realtor, and she's a business owner. My gosh, all of those. I want to find out how she does all those. But anyway, Kay, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad that you're here.   Kay Thompson ** 01:54 Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate being here, and thank you for contacting me excited.   Michael Hingson ** 02:01 Well, how do you do all those things all at once?   Kay Thompson ** 02:05 Well, you know, definitely can't do them all at once. Oh, okay, well, so have to kind of parse them out each day. And as I get assignments, that's how it goes. And got to prioritize one over the other. You   Michael Hingson ** 02:22 know? Well, we will, we will get to all of those, I am sure, in the course of the next hour or so. But I'm really glad that you're here, and as yet, I've been looking forward to this for a while, and and I'm sure we're going to have a lot of fun. Why don't we start? Maybe you could go back and tell us kind of about the early K growing up. What about you? So people can get to know you?   Kay Thompson ** 02:44 Oh, yeah. So growing up with the daughter of a military father, military officer. As a matter of fact, he rose to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. So that was interesting. So it was kind of a privileged military life in that sense that, you know, he just was always, he was a very important figure in his time. So that was interesting, walking on the base with him. And, you know, people would stop and salute him, you know, it was, it was, and I was just a little caught, you know, just running alongside him and just real proud, real proud   Michael Hingson ** 03:28 of my father. Did you have any Did you have any siblings?   Kay Thompson ** 03:31 I do? I have two brothers. Yeah, they both lived in Arizona. I was in the middle, so smashed right in the middle between two very muscular, very had a very demanding, commanding, excuse me, commanding presences. So in between the two brothers there, yeah, and then my mother, she was an English teacher, and very, you know, did excellent in her own right. She did a lot of drama, just a lot of teaching. She ended up in her 60s getting her doctorate degree, and, you know, just really excelled in education. And so she was the one that was really big on education. You know, go to school, go to school. Go to school. I don't want to go to school. Well, you need to go to school anyway. So I went to school anyway. That's how I can say my life was. Now, where did you grow up? All over,   Michael Hingson ** 04:32 okay, you did. I was going to ask if you did a lot of travel, since your dad was in the military.   Kay Thompson ** 04:38 Yeah, we certainly did. I was born in Tacoma, Washington. Oh, I don't remember any portion of it, because we were the only there, basically, so I could be born. I feel like, I know that's not the reason. But we went to Washington so I could be born, and then we lived there about a year, and then we moved to New York City. Then. We moved to. Now, by this my brother was already born, because all of us are three years apart. So my brother was born in Verdun, France, okay, and then they moved to, I can't remember where they were before that. I don't know if they went straight to from there to Washington State, and then we moved to New York, and then we went to Aberdeen, Maryland, and that's where my younger brother was born. And then from there, we went to Germany. We stayed there for about three years. From Germany, we went, I can't believe I remember all this. And from Germany, we went to Ohio. We stayed there for a couple of years. And actually we were there when they had that tornado. Was like in the 70s, there was a tornado Zenith Ohio. Well, we weren't far from zenith at the time. So we were there. Then we moved from there to Virginia, and it was there for three years, then to New Jersey, and then that's where my father retired. So we were all over the place.   Michael Hingson ** 06:10 You were, my gosh, well, did you, did you learn any of the foreign languages when you were in Germany and France, or, yeah,   Kay Thompson ** 06:23 in Germany, we could only, I only remember vaguely, you know, hello, thank you to know what it is now off beat is saying goodbye, Danka and bitter, thank you. You're welcome and good, yeah. But tight. But, no, no, we didn't do that at all   Michael Hingson ** 06:47 so, but you, you certainly did a lot and you had a lot of adventures. How do you think that all of that travel affected you as you grew older? What? What did it do that helped shape you?   Kay Thompson ** 07:03 Well, I know that, you know, of course, traveling. You know, you hear the story about kids all the time they travel, and because if they're if they're moving a lot, it's hard to create lasting, long term friendships, because you're just constantly moving. And you know, never mind moving to another city, but when you go to another state, even from another country. Now, I did happen to have a friendship with a young lady. Her name was Audrey, and I met her in Germany, and I was between the age of about three to five. I met her in Germany, and we stayed friends till I was in Virginia. So you're talking from Germany, wow, to Maryland, to Virginia. We were friends until Virginia, but then once I left Virginia and went to New Jersey, and I was there for my part of my middle school and then the rest of my high school, we fell out of touch. So that was one of the things I would say is difficult, you know, just having lifelong friends, yeah, that was, that was probably one of the more difficult things. But one thing on the other side is it made great being that person that was a world traveler. It was great when you're in school and they, you know, they ask you in your classroom, hey, you know, tell us something unique about you. Oh, well, I've been to Germany because my parents, when we were in Germany, they wasted no time traveling. They were always traveling. We were on the road all the time. I mean literally, and you know, they, they were just great world travelers. We went we went to Italy, we went to Spain, we went to France, we went to Switzerland. We went everywhere in Europe that they could get in that Volvo that they had. We had a nice little Volvo, and we would pitch out at, you know, campsites, you know, just any way they could to get where they needed to get, because they wanted to see these sites, and especially because my mother was an English teacher, she did a lot of plays, she directed a lot of plays, a lot of Shakespeare. And so a lot of these places were in these books, in this literature that she taught, and I'm sure that's probably one of the major reasons they did all this traveling, all these places that she had studied about, and, you know, taught about, she actually got to go see now, I must say, the only place I didn't go to that I wanted to go to that for some reason, she took my older brother. She didn't take any, noone else went, but my mother and my older brother. And I can't understand that trip to this day they those two went to. Greece. We didn't know. No one else in the family went to Greece. And I meant to ask, I'm going to, you know, when I finish this interview, I'm going to call my brother and ask him, What, what? What did you and mom go to Greece? You know, because nobody else got to go. But I would have loved to go there as well, but, but at the time, you know, new kid, it was okay. Mom and mom and Chuck are going away. Okay. But now that I think back and look back, maybe it was, I never, I never asked about that, but I'm going to ask, Did   Michael Hingson ** 10:34 it help you, though, develop a sense of adventure and and not create any kind of fear of of traveling around. Did it make you a more curious person? Because you got to go to so many places? Oh, I asked that in the on the basis of as you grew older and thought about it.   Kay Thompson ** 10:52 Oh, yeah, I'm a very curious person, curious person, and at times that can be a little nosy, right? And so, yeah, so that, to me, was, I think, one of the ways that built expanded my mind in terms of wanting to know about people and about things, because I've worked in public relations for many years, and so just being able to understand the perspective of other people from different cultures and different mindsets, being open to people from different cultures, different races, different religions, wanting to hear their point of view, interested in you know how they feel about things, because you can have a subject, or You can have something come up, and you have so many different perspectives from people. And you can see the very same thing, they can be shown the very same thing, but one person sees it from their lens, you know, from where you know, yeah, whether it's how they grew up or their external influences, and then someone could see the very same thing, and it interpret it totally different. Yeah. So   Michael Hingson ** 12:08 one of the one of the things that I've noticed in talking to a number of people who came from military families and and others as well, who did do a fair amount of travel to various countries and so on. They do tend to be more curious, and I think that's a very positive thing. They they have a broader outlook on so many things, and they tend to be more curious and want to learn more and wish that more people could have the same experiences that they had.   Kay Thompson ** 12:40 Yeah. I mean, not afraid to try new things too, for things that other people would would not like. I remember in Germany being very young, being fed octopus and snail. You know, these delicacies over there in Germany, I remember that at this my where my father was stationed, in Germany. The street, it was in like a court area. It felt like a court area, big apartments set up in a U shape, and then right across in a U shape in the in the middle of a field, like an open space, not a field, but an open space. And then right outside of that open space, we could jump out of that open space right into a busy street called Roma Strasse, and right on the other side of that busy street was Old Town, Germany, literally stepping there were no fences and no bars and no gates. We're stepping straight from our backyard into Germany, because the base was more Americanized. So you really felt Americanized on the base. But once you stepped into Germany, the houses were these. You know, cobble it was cobblestone streets. And I remember me and my brothers used to walk out of our backyard, that big open area, and go across the street into Germany and get the authentic gummy bears. That was our weekly trip. And these gummy bears, I'm telling you now, for gummy bear enthusiasts out there, the gummy bears in Germany looked nothing like these gummy bears that we see here. They were huge. They were the cutest little bears. I almost felt guilty eating them, but we just had a great time. I remember great memories from our exploits, our visits, the life was different. You know, toilet paper was harder. I just remember now that was years ago. I don't know what it's like now, but   Michael Hingson ** 14:49 yeah, but does the gummy bears taste better?   Kay Thompson ** 14:53 Well, now I can't remember, because then, when you're a kid, any candy, you know, if you say candy, I say, yeah. Much, you know. So when I was that young, I couldn't tell, but they probably did, you know. But then again, for those people that like because I don't drink, but the beer there is much darker, too. So some people don't like that. So better to them. You know, could be, you know, we don't like it to us. So   Michael Hingson ** 15:25 I've never been to China, but I've been to Japan twice, and there's a food in China called dim sum. Are you familiar with dim sum? Okay, I'll tell you dim sum in Japan is I and I think better. It's different and tastes better than dim sum in the United States. Now I have to go to China one of these days and try it. Yeah.   Kay Thompson ** 15:48 Well, if you ever go to the buffets, have you ever gone to the Yeah? Yeah. Okay, so if you notice the people that work there, they do not eat the food that the buffet. Yeah, they so one day I'm going to do this too. I'm like, hey, you know, can I have some of which   Michael Hingson ** 16:09 you guys eat? Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, but it is, it is interesting. It's fun to to investigate and explore. And I haven't traveled around the world much. I have as a speaker, had some opportunities to travel, but I think my curiosity came from being a blind person who was encouraged by my parents to explore, and the result was that I did a lot of exploring, just even in our house around our neighborhood. And of course, when the internet came along, and I still believe this is true, it is a treasure trove of just wonderful places to go visit. And yeah, I know there's the dark web and all that, but I ignore that. Besides that, probably the dark web is inaccessible, and maybe someday somebody will sue all the people who have sites on the dark web because they're not accessible. But nevertheless, the internet is just a treasure trove of interesting places to visit in so many ways. Yeah,   Kay Thompson ** 17:17 and then a virtual reality. So one of the places that I wanted to go to was, I've always wanted to go to Egypt. I haven't had an opportunity yet, and personally, right now, don't know how you know how good an idea that is right now. Yeah, but I went to a recent VR exploration of the pyramids in Egypt. And I'm telling you, if that was how it seemed, it's definitely was a way to help me to, you know, live it out, so to speak. Because there's, like, for instance, there's a place in Florida called the Holy Land, the Holy Land, you know, the whole just like a theme park. And they say it looks, you know, there are areas where it looks just like Israel, parts of Israel. So, you know, in that respect, I've been able to realize some portion of the dream. But yeah, I have been love to get there.   Michael Hingson ** 18:16 I have been to Israel, and I enjoy happy. I was in Israel two years ago. Oh, well, so what did you do after high school?   Kay Thompson ** 18:30 Oh, after high school, interesting. So remember when I was telling you about the school thing? So I was in and out of school. I went to I started college in New Jersey. Where did you I went to Rutgers University. Rutgers, yeah, well, first I started in New Brunswick. Then I came back because we lived closer to Camden. We lived we lived in New Jersey, closer to Philadelphia. Philadelphia was about 20 minutes away.   Michael Hingson ** 18:57 Mm, okay, I lived in, I lived in Westfield, New Jersey. So we were out route 22 from New York, about 15 miles. So we were in the north central part of the state, okay, South North part, or whatever, of the state.   Kay Thompson ** 19:11 Okay, okay, yeah. Well, yeah. First it was in New Brunswick. I was there. And then after I did that, I went for about a semester, and then I transferred over to Hampton University, because both my parents went to Hampton, so I said Hampton didn't stay there, and then I ended up coming back and going to Rutgers in Camden, and there I completed my degree. Took me eight years to complete it. What   Michael Hingson ** 19:42 did you get your degree in?   Kay Thompson ** 19:43 I got my degree in art history and sculpture. So, okay, yeah, and I love what I did. I you know, I had a museum work. Loved working in a museum, and could tell you about all the i. You know, the art, the sculpture, just loved it. But it took me a minute to get that then. And then, after that, I went to, I moved to Atlanta in 92 the end of 92 so after high school, you know, just a lot of challenges, just trying to figure out who I was and what did you do. You know, how I wished I would have, now, looking back on it, I wish I would have, maybe when I got out of high school, just taking some time off first. And because in my heart, I knew I, I knew I, I knew I didn't want to go to school, but I knew I needed to go. I knew there was something in me that said, you you need to go to school. But mentally, I don't think I was mentally prepared for it, for for the you know, because when you get out of high school, and you go into college, it's a unless you take AP courses in high school, you're not prepared for the amount of work you're going to get inundated with. And it was just overwhelming to me. It took all my time. I felt like I was that person. I had to keep reading things over and over again just to get it, I used to have to, not only did I take, you know, what friend of mine calls copious notes, but then I also had to put it over in index cards. And you know, it just took me a long time because my heart wasn't in it at the time. So I ended up meeting a gentleman, my first husband. We were married, we had a son, and then, but he passed away, I think, when my son was about three, and then that's when, okay, okay. Now, you know you now, now, now. I wanted to go. Now I wanted to finish. So it was   Michael Hingson ** 22:00 your it was your husband that passed away. Yes, yeah, okay, yeah, all right, so then you decided you really needed to to do school.   Kay Thompson ** 22:12 Yeah, I needed to complete it. So that's what pushed me to complete it, leaving   Michael Hingson ** 22:17 the major aside of sculpture and art and his art history and so on. If you were to summarize it, what did college teach you?   Kay Thompson ** 22:30 Oh, that's a great question. What did college teach me? Well, you know, it taught me that, you know, I think we just need to, well, you need to know how to focus. It's really was a disciplining moment in my life. I was an Army brat. You know this bottom line, I was an Army brat even though I felt like I didn't get a whole lot of things that I wanted. In reality, I had a, like a kind of a spoiled mentality. And when I got to college, I realized that this stuff is not going to be handed to me, you know, you're not going to be handed an a you know, I'm not going to do your studying for you, you know. And so helping me to kind of detach from things I had just depended on for so long. But in that transition, it became very lonely. College was very lonely. I mean, even when I left, because I got out of when I first went to Rutgers and cam in New Brunswick, right out of high school. I had, I was at the dorm, and I wasn't ready for a dorm. I wasn't ready for that life because, you know, I left almost before the semester was over and I had to go and make up the classes. And, you know, thankfully, they allowed me to make up some of my you know, majority well. As a matter of fact, they let me make them all up, but I still had to put in the work. And that was my thing, putting in the work, putting in the work and doing things that I didn't necessarily like. Because even though I liked art and I like sculpture and all that. There were other classes that I had to take, like humanities and algebra, you know, and history, you know, not not art history, but you know, American history, European history, and all these different other subjects, these other prerequisites or curriculum that you have to take. And I didn't always enjoy those and other I don't want to do that, but no, you actually have to do it. So I'm going to say that college really helped me learn about disciplining myself to do things that I don't necessarily like, but they are required of me,   Michael Hingson ** 24:58 and I. But I would tell you, if you asked me the same question, that would be my answer. It really taught me a lot about discipline. It taught me also to realize that I really did like inappropriately so adventure and exploration and being curious and so on. I also found that my best college courses were the ones, no matter what the subject was or whether I really enjoyed it or not, were the ones where I had good teachers who really could teach and who were concerned about students and interacting with students, rather than just giving you assignments, because they then wanted to go off and do their thing. But I liked good teachers, and I went to the University of California at Irvine, and had, very fortunately, a lot of good teachers who encouraged discipline and being able to function in unexpected ways and and they also pointed out how to recognize like if you're doing something right, like in physics, when my Masters is in physics, one of the First things that one of my professors said is, if you've got to get the right answer, but the right answer isn't just getting the right numbers, like if you are trying to compute acceleration, which we know is 16 feet per second squared, or 9.8 meters per second squared. That's not right. Anyway, 3232 feet per second, or 9.8 meters per second, it isn't enough to get the 32 feet or or the 9.8 meters. You've got to get meters per second squared. Because that never mind why it is, but that is, that is the physics term for acceleration, so it isn't enough to get the numbers, which is another way of saying that they taught me to really pay attention to the details. Yeah, which was cool. And I'm hearing from you sort of the same thing, which is great, but, but then you went to college, and you majored in what you did, and so did you work in the museum part of the time while you were in college?   Kay Thompson ** 27:31 Well, what happened is, I had an art history teacher who just took a, I guess, a liking to me, because I was very enthusiastic about what I did, because I love what I did. And I had a writing background, because I had a mother who was an English teacher. So all my life, I was constantly being edited. So I came in with pretty good grammar and pretty good way to I had a writing I had a talent for writing in a way that the academic were looking for, that art history kind of so I knew how to write that way, and she hired me to help her. She was a professor that did, you know, lectures, and she hired me, paid me out of her own salary, kind of like a work study. And so I worked for her about 20 hours a week, just filing slides and, you know, helping her with whatever she needed, because she was the chair of the department. So that was a great opportunity. I was able to work with her and and maybe feel good to know if somebody thought, you know enough of you know what I did to to hire me, and feel like I I could contribute, and that I was trusted to be able to handle some of these things. I mean, you know, and I don't know how difficult it is to file slides, but you know, when it teacher wants to do a lecture, and back then they were these little, small, little, you know, square slides. Square slides drop into the projector, right? And she's looking for, you know, the temple of Nike. You know, she wants to find it in order. You know, you pull that slide and you put it in your projector, right, carousel, right, yes, yes. So that's what I did, and it was great. I loved it. I learned college. I loved I loved the college atmosphere. I loved being in that vein, and I think I really found my niche when I was when I went to Rutgers in Camden.   Michael Hingson ** 29:48 Well, there's a history lesson sports fans, because now, of course, it's all PowerPoint. But back then, as Kay is describing it, when you wanted to project things you had. Slides. So they were pictures, they were films, and they were all these little squares, maybe two inches square, and you put them in a carousel, and you put them in the projector, and every time you push the button, it would go to the next slide, or you could go back the other way. So PowerPoint is only making it a little bit more electronic, but the same concept is still there. So there, there I dealt with slides. So after college, you, you did time at the university, at the museum, I gather,   Kay Thompson ** 30:31 okay. So what happened with the museum after I graduated from college, immediately I moved to New Jersey, yeah, you know, right? I'm gonna say probably about six months, six months to a year before college, is when my first husband died, and then after I graduated, um, I moved to New Jersey first. Where did you graduate from? Again, Rutgers University in Camden. Okay, so   Michael Hingson ** 30:59 that's New Jersey so you, but after college, you moved,   Kay Thompson ** 31:03 I moved to Georgia, Georgia that   Michael Hingson ** 31:06 that makes more sense. Okay, okay,   Kay Thompson ** 31:08 okay, sorry, yeah, so I moved to Georgia, and immediately, when we came to Georgia, you know my I came with a gentleman who I married shortly after, I moved to Georgia and we opened a art gallery. We were entrepreneurs. We came because, you know, there was, we felt like there was more opportunity in Georgia for small business owners, or would be potential small business owners, or people who wanted to realize their dream. And we know that in Georgia now, I don't know if you know this, but Georgia is a great place for entrepreneurs, so definitely better than where I was at the time. So we packed the U haul and just threw everything in there and came to Atlanta. Now my the gentleman who would be my husband. So I just say my husband now, then he, he had a sister here, so we visited first with her, and that's how we got to really see the scene, check out the scene, and then we came back and moved and found our own place and everything like that. So but when we came, I opened it, I had an art gallery for about a year or so, little bit longer and but that didn't work out. Didn't, you know, just, you know, some things you tried. Just yeah, just didn't work. But then my husband and now just FYI for you, this person, the second person, I married, the second man. He passed away too, but that was in 2008 but so he's my late husband too. So I have two, two husbands that passed away. One was the first one was much younger, and my second husband. We were married for 16 years. This is early on in our relationship. We he he opened a brass outlet, a just all kinds of beautiful black brass vases and animals and just anything brass you wanted. But also, after I shut down the museum I had or the gallery, it was an art gallery, I moved my pieces into his brass outlet, and there I was able to kind of display them and sell them. We had pieces that range from, you know, $25 to $500 so we I found a little space there that I could do my work. So it was a nice little coupling.   Michael Hingson ** 33:43 Yeah, I'm with you. Uh huh. So so you, you have obviously moved on from from doing a lot of that, because now you have other endeavors, as we mentioned at the beginning, being a minister, an entrepreneur, an author and so on. So how did you transition from just doing art to doing some of the things that you do today?   Kay Thompson ** 34:18 Okay, so what happened is when I came to and I guess this is the really, deeply more personal aspect of it all, when, when I came to Atlanta again, my my first husband had passed away. He committed suicide. Yeah, so when I came to Atlanta, my second husband and I were not yet married, and all I knew is that I wanted the relationship not to be the way the first one was, in a sense of. I I didn't want to go through that specific kind of trauma again and and not that the the two gentlemen were similar. They were very different people. My second husband was a very confident, very strong willed, you know, type of a person, but the trauma and my first husband, he had his own strength in, you know, but there's something that happens when you decide, you know, to end your life. Yeah, I wanted to make sure that I had some sort of support, divine support, because the going through something like that, and when I say something like that, not only am I talking about the suicide, but the fact that he was On we were on the phone together when this happened, so and then just dealing with everything that happened around it, you can imagine someone feeling a little bit insecure, unsure. So I really began to seek God for that relationship that I know would sustain me. I had grown up, you know, my parents grew up, they brought us to church. You know, I wouldn't say my parents were they weren't ministers, but they were active in whatever church they went to, and they made sure that we went to church every Sunday, even the Vacation Bible School. I can remember that in New Jersey, I remember, you know, them just being a very, very involved. My my parents. My mother was a singer, so she sang a lot in the choir, lot of solos. My father was a deacon. They both became elders, and elders, meaning they were just senior members of ministry. Because elder in the I'm in a non denominational ministry now, but elder is another way of saying a ordained male Minister their particular denomination, an elder was, you know, almost you might want to say like a trustee, so, but they were root, they they were they were integral to their church, And they were really foundational members. And so I just remember that impact on my life, and so I needed to make sure I had that grounding, and I knew I didn't have it because I was doing any and everything I wanted to do. You know, one of the reasons my my second husband, said, You know, he, I was the one for him, is because we had a drinking competition and I beat him, you know, we were taking shots, and I beat him. And so, you know that that was something that, you know, he said, Oh, you're, you know, girl, you're the one for me. And so that was our life, running, you know, we did a lot of. We entertained. We, you know, we did a lot of partying, as you say, a lot of having a great time. We were living our best life, right? So I knew I wasn't living a life that I could tell, Hey, God, see my life, Aren't you proud? It wasn't that life I was living. I wasn't, you know, doing biblical things. I wasn't living life, right? So I needed to make sure when I came to New Jersey, I mean, when I came to Atlanta from New Jersey with this gentleman that I had not yet married, I said, Lord, you know, help me make the right decision. And I'd say we could be moved to to Georgia in it's something like January, February. Okay, we got married about two months later, and then a month after that, I was pregnant with my daughter. So things being that, it happened very fast. But one thing about it is, of course, when you're pregnant, as a woman, you know, you can't do this. I couldn't do the things that I was doing before, right? The partying, smoking, the drinking, all of that, you know, for the sake of the child. You know, you just can't do it. So I went through a terrible withdrawal. Yeah, it was, it was pretty bad and and the only refuge I had was the church. So that's how I really got into the church. And once I got into the church, I had, I had been in the church before I had made a decision. Decision when I was about, I'm going to say about five, five or six years prior to that, I had given my life to the Lord. I had, you know, come into a relationship with the Lord, but life happened, and I got out of it. You know, I quickly kind of got out of it. And so for many years, I was just doing my own thing. So again, when, when, when we came to Georgia, I got pregnant, got married, going through with the withdrawals. I just, you know, I just went back into the church, uh, rekindled that relationship. Or, or the Bible says that he, he, he's with loving kindness. Has he drawn you? So he really drew me back based on my need. And so I came back to the church and got really, really involved in ministry. And as I got involved, I just kind of threw myself into it, because I could not do the previous things I did. And then even after I had my my second child, it's a daughter, so I have a son and a daughter, I had to live a life that was good for   Michael Hingson ** 41:05 them. And what did your husband think of all that?   Kay Thompson ** 41:09 Oh, yeah. Well, first he thought I had joined a cult. Okay, yeah, that's so that was his first impression. So he came to the church because he wanted to see who these cult members were that were drawing away his wife. And when he came, he got kind of hooked to the church, yeah? But our our faith was never at the same level. You know? He came because of me. I came because of of God, right? And I don't know if he ever really, I don't think he ever really got to that level that I did, where I was just gung ho. Everything was, you know, I was a Jesus girl. I was a holy roller, you know. And he did it for us. He did it for, you know, task sake, because he was a task oriented person. But he came, he came to be a very like my parents. He came to be very important part of the church. He was a deacon. He was faithful. He loved our leaders. He served with faith and integrity. But when it came to that, you know, deep seated personal relationship with God, where you know God, I just give you everything you know that that was mine. That was what I did. So we differed in that respect, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:35 well, well, hopefully though, in in the long run, you said he's passed. I assume it was not a suicide.   Kay Thompson ** 42:45 No, no,   Michael Hingson ** 42:46 Ben that he is. He is moving on in that faith. So that's a hopeful   Kay Thompson ** 42:53 thing. Yeah, I believe he is. He had congestive heart failure and he passed away. And, yeah, I believe he he's now at rest, enjoying his rest. Yes, there   Michael Hingson ** 43:06 you go. So when did he pass in 2008 Okay, so that was 17 years ago. Okay, yep, well, so you were very involved in the church. And I suppose in some senses, it's probably a question that is reasonably obvious, but then I'll still ask, how did you get into the ministry from being very heavily involved in church, and when did that happen?   Kay Thompson ** 43:38 Okay, so one day our church. You know, the churches we have depending on, I guess, your faith or leaders do in the beginning of each year, we have a 21 day consecration, which we do in January, throughout the month of January. You know they might say, okay, 21 for 21 days. Read these scriptures, and we're going to fast from, you know, sweets, meats, or, you know, whatever the directive is. And so we was in a 21 day fast, and that was at my home one day. It was in the middle of the night, and I distinctly heard a call to preach. And that's really how the it all began. I mean, I knew, you know, the Bible says that, you know, even with Jeremiah and Jeremiah one, he says, Before the foundation, you know, before your mother and your father, you know, were together, I have already called you. I already ordained you. So I heard this call to preach, very distinct call, and at that point, I told my pastor, and from that point, I was kind of groomed, and as time went on, I was given more responsibility. Uh, you know, praying, or every now and then, preaching, doing Bible study. The next thing I know, I took my licensing exam, I was licensed, and then after that, I went through ordination, and I was ordained, and that's how it really began. And it was something I really took to heart, because I didn't want to disappoint God again. I didn't want to backslide again. Because, you know, I strongly believed in the faith, and I believe in the faith, and I believe in the power of Jesus, and I didn't want to be that person that Okay. Today I'm going to be faithful to the God and to His Word. But then, you know, then on the next day, you know, you're finding me, you know, yeah, in the liquor store, or, you know, this, doing this, or, you know, in the club. I didn't want to be that person. Yeah, I was, I was sincere, and I was very gung ho, and I wanted to live out this life. I wanted to see what the calling was going to be in my life. And I loved ministry. I loved the word, because I was already an art historian. So I loved history. And so the Bible is all you know, it's something history. It's history. Yeah, it's relevant. History to me, it's alive and active, sure. So it was perfect. It was a perfect pairing for me, and that that's really been my pursuit many these years.   Michael Hingson ** 46:37 So when did you become a minister?   Kay Thompson ** 46:41 Actually, when I, when I was telling you about that fast and when I heard the word preach, essentially when I heard that word preach between me and God, that was when I became a minister. Time wise. When was that time wise? Okay, that was probably 94 Okay. I Yeah, all right.   Michael Hingson ** 47:00 So you were, you were clearly a preacher during a lot of the time with your your second husband, and so on, and, and I am so glad that he at least did explore and and and learn so much. So that's a that's a cool thing. But you've also done some other things. You deal with real estate, you're a TV show host, you're an author and well, business owner, yeah, but I want to, I want to learn more about some of those. But what kind of challenges have you faced in the ministry?   Kay Thompson ** 47:42 Yeah. I would say some of the challenges are, you know, when you're in ministry, you have to preach or get yourself prepared for going before the people. It can be a very lonely lifestyle, yeah, yeah, even, even if you're married, even if you have children, it could still be a lonely and and demanding in its own right, because there is a mandate over your life to live and not according to what you see trending now. And, you know, when I, when I first got started in ministry there, the Internet was not the way it is now. No, no, definitely. Because, I mean, it was in 2000 that I got ordained. And I'm going to say the ministry had been, you know, it was just really starting to, I don't know you guess, she said, make waves. That's when all of the big evangelists were coming out, like, you know, the TD Jakes, the Paula white and the Benny Hinn and the Juanita Biden. That is around that time when those generation of preachers were really at the forefront, correct, low dollar and, you know, Bishop, Carlton, Pearson and Rod Parsley and all these, these names. That's when it really began to really pick up steam. And so that was the error that I started off in. And you wanted to be a person. You wanted to be relevant, but at the same token, you just trying to find that balance between family and ministry and and regular life. You know, can sometimes be really challenging, and I had to learn a lot about the order of things. You know, first it's God, then it's family, and then it's ministry. That's the order. But a lot of times we mix up God and ministry. So what we think is, you know, and. Aspect of things that we think that are God, that are actually ministry, and they supersede your family. That's where you know you can really run into some trouble. So that balance between those different aspects of my life, it was difficult, and then as a person who had a a more a prophetic, a revelatory call. On top of that, God is showing you things about people, about, you know, situations that you don't necessarily ask to know about, you know. And the Bible says, you know, with much knowledge can often come sorrow, you know. And that's when you begin to see God really unveiling and revealing things about people and about yourself. Because you have to be able to, you have to be able to look at yourself and not get too self righteous, right? If God is showing you these things. But in the same token, you don't want to, you know, you say, Okay, God, you're showing me this. What do you want me to do with this? And you know, somebody else might say, Okay, you need to go tell that person what God showed you. You know, I saw you doing this. You better stop, you know, doing this. And then, you know, so busy pointing the finger. Yeah, but you have to remember, you know, and it's, it may be cliches, but you've got three pointing back at you. And so there is, you know, you you've gotta be able to stay humble and yet still balance your family and still, you know, uh, not think yourself to be more than what you are, and yet realize that God has called you to do more in ministry than the average person. So yeah, it can be challenging, but I wouldn't change it for anything.   Michael Hingson ** 51:55 It can be a challenge, but at the same time, you clearly were called to do it, and you work at keeping perspective, and I think that's the important thing, which goes back to college, which helped you learn a lot of discipline, and you get to use that discipline in a different way, perhaps, than you right, you figured out in college. But discipline is discipline, yeah. Well, how did you then get into something like the media and start being a TV show host and those kinds of things?   Kay Thompson ** 52:26 Yeah, so I have a wonderful, wonderful pastor who really takes time to work with their their members and find out what your gifts are, what your talents are, and use them. And so I So, let's just say so I was an artist. Okay, bottom line, I was a sculptor, painter, award winning painter, by the way. Let me just tell you now, you know the first or second painting I did, I entered it into a contest at the college, and I won an award, so I had a gift for this design, but in my time we were transitioning to graphic design, graphic design became the big thing, and I never had if I had the aptitude to do computer science, which, bless his soul, my beautiful son is a computer scientist, right, you know, but that gene, this, that gene, skip right on over me. I was not the math person, and when you said physicist, I said, Hmm, that that, you know, that gene just, just totally went around me,   Michael Hingson ** 53:41 yeah, so you don't know anything about 32 feet per second squared anyway, no,   Kay Thompson ** 53:45 I'm about to say, I trust you, whatever you say, you know, and it's the funny thing is, my father was a mathematician, my older brother was a chemical engineer, and Me, you know that I struggle just to pass geometry. Okay, so no, I was the artsy person.   Michael Hingson ** 54:07 Um, that's fine, but I was, yeah. How'd that get you to the media?   Kay Thompson ** 54:12 Yeah, so I was going to say, so, the combination what happened is my pastor knew a pastor who was looking for a part time job, looking for someone to have a part time job, because he had a he had his own publishing company in his house. He at the time he was he published a book that we talked about church growth. And this was at the time when the Purpose Driven Life, The Purpose Driven Life was a purpose driven church came out. It was a huge success. And he the same thing happened with him here in Atlanta, but no publishing company wanted to take. Make his story, because that's the, you know, the whole the society was inundated with this purpose driven church, you know, it was already written about. It was already done. They didn't want his story. So he decided to create his own publishing company, and it was in the basement of his mansion, and he was looking for someone to be the secretary. So I came in that I was, it was a friend of a friend of friend. They hired me, and I started working for him as a as a secretary. And then they would bring these books over, and he would, you know, send them out to be edited, and then bring them back. And then I would have to mail it out to the to the printer and one of the books one day, and I saw it, and I noticed there were still typos in it. I said, Sir, there's still typos in your book. Oh, really, yeah. And he had already paid this person $1,000 so I went back through it, found all these typos, and that's how I got into publishing, publishing my own books and and everything like that. But then one day, my pastor said, Hey, Kay, why don't you do a radio show? I was like, okay, sure, right, because I had met so many people in ministry from doing their books. So I called the radio station, the local am station, and I said, Hey, how much does it cost to do a show, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was sponsored by my pastor and some other people, and I started a 30 minute show every week. It was called personalities, profiles and perspectives, the three teams, and I would interview people, gospel artists, pastors, you know, just politicians, you know, just people. I would reach out to them. Next thing I know, I got hired by a station in another station in Atlanta. It was called wg, I don't know if you remember, well, you, you probably don't, because you're not from Atlanta, right? But it was W G, U N, 10:10am, in Atlanta, the biggest am station aside from WSB radio, which is WSB 750 the major news network, right? WGN, 1010. Was a huge station, and I got hired by them. I was a DJ. It was a gospel station, and I ended up being the program director, and did a lot of, you know, voiceovers. I did shows, I did production. That's how I got into radio. And I loved it. I loved radio. I loved anything to do with media. It was just I knew it. I got bit with the bug when they opened up that hot mic. That was it. I was in my element. So that's how I got into radio. And then you went to TV. And then I went to TV, yeah, went to TV. Well, what happened is, I was writing books, and there is a station here in Atlanta, W ATC TV 57 and they interview people all over, actually, all over the country. You can come from wherever we know, we've had big names, you know, all kinds of people and local people. And that's one thing about it, is that local people in ministry could go there. They could sing, if they were music artists, they could, you know, talk about their books, talk about their ministry. And so I went on and talked about my book, and next thing I know, I got called in to be a host, and so I've been hosting now for about five years. Wow. You know, on and off. You know, the the show has different hosts each, and I do a couple of times a month. Okay, I'll actually be on there shortly, again in a few days. So   Michael Hingson ** 58:57 tell us about your books. You've mentioned books several times. Did you publish your own books? Okay, so tell us about your books.   Kay Thompson ** 59:06 So yeah, the first four books, well, I've done I've had four books which were on prophecy. The the main title is prophecy in the 21st Century. And then I did four different volumes. The first one was the role of prophecy in the new millennium. And basically that one was written in, I'm going to say around 2012 somewhere about 2012 and it talks about the relevance of prophecy with regard to the millennial generation, and how this you can help steer direct and go alongside millennial mindset, millennial and many millennial aspects of this generation. And then the second book was also the set under the same volume, the same name. Prophecy in the 21st Century, the role of and the second the first one is the role of prophecy in the new millennium. The second one was prophetic healing. And prophetic healing talks about prophecy and healing in the Bible and how prophetic people who operate in the prophetic can help bring forth, healing, societal, healing, relational, healing, physical, healing, financial. And then the third one was about prophetic women. And these are women in the Bible that had a prophetic calling, not necessarily called a prophetess, but display those characteristics of women that operate in Revelation and that sort of gift. And then the fourth one was called the leadership mandate, and it talks about leader and how leaders navigate in the prophetic arena and the characteristics that people ought to have, and leaders in the Bible that also operated in that revelation or that. And then the last book I wrote was called the 30 names, or not the but 30 Names of God, because there are so many more names that God is known by. But I chose 30 names that really stood out to me as what God has called. You know Jehovah Gabor. You know the warrior one fights for us. You know Jehovah Jireh, of course, we know that's our provider. Mm, hmm, Jehovah Rapha, our healer. So I found 30 names that really stood out to me, and I spoke about those in that book. So those are the books that I have, and then I've got another book that will be coming out within the next year, and and it is about healing. So those are my books, and I've published those books. And not only do I, I didn't start off publishing my own books. I started off publishing for other people, right? Because the more I worked in that field, the more I found that I could do better financially if I did it myself. Yeah, so and I, and I, one thing about it is that as a result of being an artist, that the graphic design, computer graphics, came really easy to me, I'll bet. So, yeah, so someone could hand me a manuscript. I had the editing skills right for my mother. So I could edit your book. I could create the design. I could format it. I You. Hand me your manuscript, I hand you back your finished product. So for me, you know, the cheapest person that you know, I pay the least amount because so I can publish as many books as I could write, probably, you know, but that's how I really got started doing that, and then I began to do it for other people, other leaders, other pastors, friends, you know, just people that want that service. I provide that service. And so that's how that really got started.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:12 Now we don't have a lot of time, but I just curious. You also do something in real estate.   Kay Thompson ** 1:03:19 I do, yeah, I I got my license in 2005 and maybe one year, maybe one year, and then I got out of it right away. Life happened, and then I came back in 2022, and began to did it full time. And so I love it. I love real estate. Right now I'm in residential, but I do some commercial, and the ultimate goal is to do mostly commercial and to have a space. The goal for commercial is to really help others entrepreneurs who are interested in having businesses offline, giving them an opportunity to have a space that is little to nothing, and that's one of the ways that I really want to give back, is to be able to offer that opportunity for people out there to help others to achieve that same goal. And so I believe in entrepreneur. I've been an entrepreneur for 17 years now. So, yeah, have a heart for that. So I want to see other people get through that challenge and be successful. So, and I know it takes money,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:37 but in real estate helps.   Kay Thompson ** 1:04:39 It definitely helps. Yeah? Well, real estate is constantly going up, you know, even if the market is down and even if finances are down, real estate is something that is immovable,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:52 so go back up.   Speaker 1 ** 1:04:54 Yeah, yeah, for sure, and   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:57 you clearly enjoy everything that you're. Doing, which is the important thing, yes, I have that is that is really cool, and I am so glad that we had a chance to talk about all this, needless to say, and I want to thank you for being on unstoppable mindset. Clearly, you have an unstoppable mindset, and you exhibited in so many ways. So I really want to thank you, but I also want to thank all of you for listening out there, wherever you happen to be, if you'd like to reach out to KK, how can people find you?   Kay Thompson ** 1:05:31 They can go to my website. It is my name, K Thompson, dot, O, R, G, all my books are there? Contact information, some of my podcasts. You can watch some of Atlanta live the videos of the shows. It's all on my website,   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:49 all right, and that's in in the notes and so on. So, k, a, y, T, H, O, M, P, S O, n.org, correct. So hope that you'll all go there and and check Kay out and and communicate with her. I'm sure that she would love, and I would love to know what you think and get your thoughts about today. So please feel free to email me at Michael, H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I B, e.com, wherever you're observing our podcast today, please give us a five star rating. We value very highly your reviews, and we, of course, love them most when you give us a five star review. So please do that. And Kay, for you and for everyone who is out there today, if you know anyone else who ought to be on unstoppable mindset, I would really appreciate it if you'd introduce us and we will bring them on the podcast, because we're always looking for people who have stories to tell about their lives and being unstoppable. So please don't hesitate to let us know. You can also go to our podcast page, which is Michael hingson, M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s o n.com/podcast, so we'd love you to do that as well. But again, really appreciate all you being out there and listening to us and and I'm sure you you like, like, I have gotten some wonderful things out of talking with case. Okay, once again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful.   Kay Thompson ** 1:07:22 Well, thank you. I really enjoyed it. I appreciate you asking me to be here and just so glad to be able to share with you today your audience. Really appreciate it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:37 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Episode Summary: In this episode, host Benoy Thanjan sits down with Dorian Hunt, Partner and Head of Renewables at Leo Berwick, to unpack the new safe harbor rules, the impacts of the Big Beautiful Bill, and what's coming next in tax and policy guidance for renewable energy. Dorian also dives into repowering projects, economic obsolescence, co-location strategies, bonus depreciation, and solar industry trends.  Dorian offers practical advice for developers and investors navigating today's fast-changing environment. Biographies Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy, solar developer and consulting firm, and a strategic advisor to multiple cleantech startups. Over his career, Benoy has developed over 100 MW of solar projects across the U.S., helped launch the first residential solar tax equity funds at Tesla, and brokered $45 million in Renewable Energy Credits (“REC”) transactions. Prior to founding Reneu Energy, Benoy was the Environmental Commodities Trader in Tesla's Project Finance Group, where he managed one of the largest environmental commodities portfolios. He originated REC trades and co-developed a monetization and hedging strategy with senior leadership to enter the East Coast market. As Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners, Benoy crafted project finance solutions for commercial-scale solar portfolios. His role at Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund with 125 MW of U.S. renewable assets, involved evaluating investment opportunities and maximizing returns. He also played a key role in the sale of the firm's renewable portfolio. Earlier in his career, Benoy worked in Energy Structured Finance at Deloitte & Touche and Financial Advisory Services at Ernst & Young, following an internship on the trading floor at D.E. Shaw & Co., a multi billion dollar hedge fund. Benoy holds an MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from NYU Stern, where he was an Alumni Scholar. Dorain Hunt Dorian leads Leo Berwick's Energy & Renewables tax practice.  Dorian has 20 years of experience in tax credit monetization, with clients including renewable energy project developers, tax equity investors, project lenders, insurers and syndicators. Prior to joining Leo Berwick, he was a leader in the Power and Utilities and Energy Transition practices of a Big 4 firm, where he focused on providing tax consulting services with respect to tax credit-driven project finance across, with a focus on renewable energy. Dorian is a thought leader in the tax credit space and has authored articles on topics including the potential implications for “direct pay” of renewable energy tax incentives and on the impact of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on the US renewable energy industry.  He has also presented on these and other similar topics for organizations such as IPED, NARUC, and the Boston Bar Association. Dorian has experience with myriad energy incentive programs including Treasury 1603 grants, 48C advanced energy manufacturing studies, and the rapidly-developing field of 45Q carbon capture credits.   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   Dorian Hunt  Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorian-hunt/ Website:  https://www.leoberwick.com/ Newsletter:  https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/energy-transition-insider-7197296760090750976/

“As I was reading Hooks and Freire, a colleague recommended Adrian Rich's essay "Teaching Language in Open Admissions." It was in that essay that I first read about her experiences teaching at CUNY during open admissions, learning that she taught alongside June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Toni Cade Bambara. Eventually, that essay led me to their archival teaching materials. I was really excited because I found in those materials concrete teaching methods, things they were doing in their own classrooms that I then started trying in my classrooms as well. I also really liked their educational philosophies, thinking about what it means for college to be free and the fact that they were teaching during this revolutionary era. What would that look like today? What would it mean? What could free college bring to our society? What does free college make possible? All of those things coming together led me to the project.”In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Danica Savonick about her marvelous book entitled Open Admissions: The Poetics and Pedagogy of Toni Cade Bambara, June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Adrienne Rich in the Era of Free College. This is a riveting and deeply inspiring story of how each of these luminaries in the fields of literature and feminism found their way into the City University of New York in the 1960s, when community activists had forced open what was called the Harvard for the proletariat to admit new classes of Black, brown, and other people of color. Savonick shows through copious archival research how Bambara, Jordan, Lorde, and Rich each came to find radical teaching methods in collaboration with these new students, and how their experiences with this new pedagogy affected their creative and other writing in profound and lasting ways. This is a critical history we can and must learn from today, when federal and state governments have added to the damage and violence done by the neoliberal university. We find exactly the tools and models we need to create spaces for education for liberation both within, but also outside, the Academy.Danica Savonick is an Associate Professor of English at SUNY Cortland. Her current project focuses on the radical writers and artists who taught at the experimental Livingston College (part of Rutgers University) in the 1970s. Her research has appeared in MELUS, American Literature, Modern Fiction Studies, Radical Teacher, Keywords for Digital Pedagogy in the Humanities, Public Books, and The Chronicle of Higher Ed.https://speakingoutofplace.comBluesky @palumboliu.bsky.socialInstagram @speaking_out_of_place

“As I was reading Hooks and Freire, a colleague recommended Adrian Rich's essay "Teaching Language in Open Admissions." It was in that essay that I first read about her experiences teaching at CUNY during open admissions, learning that she taught alongside June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Toni Cade Bambara. Eventually, that essay led me to their archival teaching materials. I was really excited because I found in those materials concrete teaching methods, things they were doing in their own classrooms that I then started trying in my classrooms as well. I also really liked their educational philosophies, thinking about what it means for college to be free and the fact that they were teaching during this revolutionary era. What would that look like today? What would it mean? What could free college bring to our society? What does free college make possible? All of those things coming together led me to the project.”In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Danica Savonick about her marvelous book entitled Open Admissions: The Poetics and Pedagogy of Toni Cade Bambara, June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Adrienne Rich in the Era of Free College. This is a riveting and deeply inspiring story of how each of these luminaries in the fields of literature and feminism found their way into the City University of New York in the 1960s, when community activists had forced open what was called the Harvard for the proletariat to admit new classes of Black, brown, and other people of color. Savonick shows through copious archival research how Bambara, Jordan, Lorde, and Rich each came to find radical teaching methods in collaboration with these new students, and how their experiences with this new pedagogy affected their creative and other writing in profound and lasting ways. This is a critical history we can and must learn from today, when federal and state governments have added to the damage and violence done by the neoliberal university. We find exactly the tools and models we need to create spaces for education for liberation both within, but also outside, the Academy.Danica Savonick is an Associate Professor of English at SUNY Cortland. Her current project focuses on the radical writers and artists who taught at the experimental Livingston College (part of Rutgers University) in the 1970s. Her research has appeared in MELUS, American Literature, Modern Fiction Studies, Radical Teacher, Keywords for Digital Pedagogy in the Humanities, Public Books, and The Chronicle of Higher Ed.https://speakingoutofplace.comBluesky @palumboliu.bsky.socialInstagram @speaking_out_of_place

“As I was reading Hooks and Freire, a colleague recommended Adrian Rich's essay "Teaching Language in Open Admissions." It was in that essay that I first read about her experiences teaching at CUNY during open admissions, learning that she taught alongside June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Toni Cade Bambara. Eventually, that essay led me to their archival teaching materials. I was really excited because I found in those materials concrete teaching methods, things they were doing in their own classrooms that I then started trying in my classrooms as well. I also really liked their educational philosophies, thinking about what it means for college to be free and the fact that they were teaching during this revolutionary era. What would that look like today? What would it mean? What could free college bring to our society? What does free college make possible? All of those things coming together led me to the project.”In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Danica Savonick about her marvelous book entitled Open Admissions: The Poetics and Pedagogy of Toni Cade Bambara, June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Adrienne Rich in the Era of Free College. This is a riveting and deeply inspiring story of how each of these luminaries in the fields of literature and feminism found their way into the City University of New York in the 1960s, when community activists had forced open what was called the Harvard for the proletariat to admit new classes of Black, brown, and other people of color. Savonick shows through copious archival research how Bambara, Jordan, Lorde, and Rich each came to find radical teaching methods in collaboration with these new students, and how their experiences with this new pedagogy affected their creative and other writing in profound and lasting ways. This is a critical history we can and must learn from today, when federal and state governments have added to the damage and violence done by the neoliberal university. We find exactly the tools and models we need to create spaces for education for liberation both within, but also outside, the Academy.Danica Savonick is an Associate Professor of English at SUNY Cortland. Her current project focuses on the radical writers and artists who taught at the experimental Livingston College (part of Rutgers University) in the 1970s. Her research has appeared in MELUS, American Literature, Modern Fiction Studies, Radical Teacher, Keywords for Digital Pedagogy in the Humanities, Public Books, and The Chronicle of Higher Ed.https://speakingoutofplace.comBluesky @palumboliu.bsky.socialInstagram @speaking_out_of_place

Our guest this time, Elizabeth Gagnon is all about Tea. However, as you will discover, her Tea is not mostly the drink although at the end of our episode we do learn she does like some teas. For Miss Liz, as she is most commonly known, Tea stands for Teaching Educational Awareness.   Miss Liz's life growing up was hard. She was sexually abused among other things. It took her awhile to deal with all the trauma she faced. However, as she and I discuss, she made choices to not let all the abuse and beatings hold her back.   She tried to graduate from high school and was one course away from that goal when she had to quit school. She also worked to get her GED and again was only a few units away when life got in the way.   Liz's story is not to her a tragedy. Again, she made choices that helped her move on. In 2010 she began her own business to deal with mental health advocacy using her Tea approach. Liz will tell us all about Tea and the many iterations and changes the Tea model has taken over the years.   I am as impressed as I can be to talk with miss Liz and see her spirit shine. I hope you will feel the same after you hear this episode.   Miss Liz has written several books over the past several years and there are more on the way. Pictures of her book covers are in the show notes for this episode. I hope you enjoy hearing from this award-winning lady and that you will gain insights that will help you be more unstoppable.     About the Guest:   Elizabeth Jean Olivia Gagnon, widely known as Miss Liz, is an international keynote speaker, best-selling author, and the visionary behind Miss Liz's Tea Parties and Teatimes. A fierce advocate for mental health, abuse awareness, and peacebuilding, she's recognized globally for her storytelling platforms that empower individuals to share their truths “one cup at a time.” From podcast host to humanitarian, Miss Liz uses her voice and lived experience to ignite real change across communities and cultures.   A survivor of extreme trauma, Miss Liz has transformed her pain into purpose by creating safe spaces for open, healing conversations. Her work has earned her prestigious honors, including an Honorary Doctorate for Human Rights, the Hope and Resilience Award, and the World Superhero Award from LOANI. She's been featured on over 200 platforms globally and continues to lead through her podcast, social impact work, and live storytelling events.   Miss Liz is also a multi-time international best-selling co-author in the Sacred Hearts Rising and Unstoppable Gems book series. She's the creator of the TeaBag Story Award and the founder of her own T-E-A product line—Teaching Educational Awareness through fashion, wellness, and personal development tools. With every word, event, and product, Miss Liz reminds us that healing is possible, and that we all hold the power to be a seed of change.   Ways to connect with Elizabeth:   Social media links my two websites www.misslizsteatime.com www.misslizstee.com All my social media links can be found on those sites. Or my linktree.  https://linktr.ee/Misslizsteatime     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to talk to Miss Liz Gagnon, and I'm really interested to hear why she likes to be called Miss Liz instead of Elizabeth, or any of those kinds of things. But Liz also has some very interesting connections to tea, and I'm not going to give away what that's all about, but I'll tell you right now, it's not what you think. So we'll, we'll get to that, though, and I hope that we get to have lots of fun. Over the next hour, I've told Liz that our podcast rule, the only major rule on this podcast is you can't come on unless you're going to have fun. So I expect that we're going to have a lot of fun today. And Liz, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We are glad you're here.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:09 Well, thank you so much, Michael for having me. It's an honor to be here. I can't wait to dip into the tea and get everybody curious on what we're going to be spilling. So,   Michael Hingson ** 02:19 so how did you get started with the the name Miss Liz, as opposed to Elizabeth or Lizzie or any of that kind of stuff.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:28 Well, I have all those names too, Michael, I'll bet you   Michael Hingson ** 02:31 do. But still, Miss Liz is what you choose.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:35 Actually, Miss Liz was given to me at the age of four the same time my cup of tea was given to me at the age of four by my Oma. I that she just had a hard time saying Elizabeth. She was from Germany, so she would just call me Miss Liz. Miss Liz. And then I knew, Oh boy, I better move, right.   Michael Hingson ** 02:52 Yeah. If she ever really got to the point where she could say Elizabeth, very well, then you really better move.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:59 Well, she used to call me Elvira too, and I didn't like that name Elvira. Yeah, I don't know how she got Elizabeth from a viral but she used to call me a vira. I think maybe it was because her name was Avira, so I think it was close to her name, right? So, well,   Michael Hingson ** 03:17 tell us a little bit about the early Miss Liz, growing up and all that stuff, and little bit about where you came from and all that.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 03:25 Well, I come from a little town called Hearst, Ontario in Canada. It's about maybe 6000 population. I'm going to guess. I was born and raised there until the age of I think it was 31 when I finally moved away for the last time, and I've been in the East End, down by Ottawa and Cornwall and all that stuff since 2005 but My early childhood was a hard one, but it was also a strong one. I A lot of people will say, how do you consider that strong? I've been through a lot of abuse and neglect and a lot of psychological stuff growing up and but I had my tea, I had that little Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole that I could go down once in a while, just to keep me moving and keep me strong, right? So, yeah, my story was, was a hard one, but I don't look at it as a struggle. I look at it as as stepping stones of overcoming Stuff and Being that voice that I am today,   Michael Hingson ** 04:29 struggle, if you if you're willing to talk about a struggle, how   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 04:35 I was sexually abused by my uncle at the age of four, and then other family members later on, in couple years later down the road, but my uncle was the main abuser, and I became impregnant by my uncle and lost a daughter to stillborn. So there was a lot of shame to the family. Was not allowed to speak at this child for many, many years, I finally came out with her story. After my father passed, because I felt safe, because my family would put me into psychiatric wards when I would talk about my little girls,   Michael Hingson ** 05:06 wow, yeah, I, I don't know I, I just have very little sympathy for people who do that to girls, needless to say, and now, now my cat, on the other hand, says she's abused all the time, but that's a different story,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 05:25 right? But I strongly believe, Michael, that we all go through challenges and struggles in life to have our story, to be that voice where we are today, like like yourself, right? Had you not gone through what you went through, you would not have the story that you have   Michael Hingson ** 05:42 well, and I think that it also comes down to what you decide to do with the story. You could just hide it, hide behind it, or other things like that. And the problem is, of course, that then you don't talk about it. Now, after September 11, I didn't go through any real counseling or anything like that. But what I did do was I and my wife and I discussed it. We allowed me to take calls from reporters, and literally, we had hundreds of calls from reporters over a six month period. And what was really fascinating for me, especially with the TV people who came. I learned a whole lot about how TV people set up to do an interview. We had a Japanese company with two or three people who came, and that was it up through an Italian company that had 15 people who invaded our house, most of whom didn't really seem to do anything, and we never figured out why were they. They were there. But it's fascinating to see how   06:46 extras, Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 06:49 extra, the extras, yeah, but we but it was very fascinating. But the point was that the reporters asked everything from the most inane, dumb question to very intelligent, wise, interesting questions, and it made me talk about September 11. So I don't think that anything could have been done in any other way that would have added as much value as having all those reporters come and talk to me. And then people started calling and saying, We want you to come and talk to us and talk to us about what we should learn from September 11 lessons we should learn talk about leadership and trust in your life and other things like that. And my wife and I decided that, in reality, selling life and philosophy was a whole lot more fun and rewarding than managing a computer hardware sales team and selling computer hardware. So I switched. But it was a choice.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 07:48 Yeah, it is a choice, right? Michael, do you, do you stay in the self pity, or do you rise from it, right? And a lot of people were like, Miss Liz, how can you be so good hearted and open to people that have hurt you so bad? And I always said, since I was a little girl, Michael, I would not give anybody what others gave me. Yeah, you know that that little inner girl in me always said, like, you know what it feels like. Would you like somebody else to feel this way? And the answer is no.   Michael Hingson ** 08:16 And with people like your uncle, did you forgive them ever? Or have you,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 08:21 I forgive them for myself. Yeah, I that's how you do. You know, I'm not forgiving you and coming for your Sunday dinner and having roast beef and pretending that it was all fun and games. When I was younger, I had no choice to forgive him and to be around him, because that's how my parents were. You know, don't bring shame to the family and as a minor. Well, you you know you obey your parents and that, and I hate that word, obey I hear. You know, I grew up in a time where you respect your elders, right? Whether they were good or bad, you respected them. It was Yes, sir, yes, ma'am. You know whether they hurt you or not, you just respected these people. Do I? Do I have respect for them today, absolutely not. I pray for them, and I hope that they find peace within themselves. But I'm not going to sit in and apologize to somebody who actually doesn't give to to tune darns of my my apology, right? So my words?   Michael Hingson ** 09:23 Well, the the bottom line is that respect is something that has to be earned, and if they're not trying to earn it, then you know, why should you respect? On the other hand, forgiveness is something that you can do and and you do it and you move on, yeah, and   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 09:40 a lot of people don't understand the real forgiveness, right? They always tell me, Miss Liz, you haven't forgiven anybody. And I said, Yes, I have, or I wouldn't be where I am today, guys, yeah, if I wouldn't have forgiven those people for myself, not for them.   Michael Hingson ** 09:55 Now, see, that's the difference between people and my cat. My cat has no self pity. She's just a demanding kitty, and I wouldn't have her any of that. Oh, she's she's really wonderful. She likes to get petted while she eats. And she'll yell at me until I come and pet her, and then she eats while I'm petting her. She loves it. She's a cutie. She's 15 and going on two. She's great.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 10:17 Oh, those are the cute ones, right? When they stay young at heart, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 10:21 oh, she, she does. So my wife passed in 2022, and now stitch, that's the cat's name, sleeps up next to me. And so that works out well, and she was named stitch when we got her, not quite sure where the name originally came from, but we rescued her. We were not going to keep her. We were going to find her a home because we were living in an apartment. But then I learned that the cat's name was stitch, and I knew that that cat weren't going to go nowhere, because my wife had been a quilter since 1994 you think a quilter is ever going to give up a cat named stitch? So stitch has been with us now for over 10 years. That's great. Oh, wow. And there's a lot of love there,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 11:03 yeah. And, you know, these little connections, right? The Universe sends us, you know, the names and all of that. They send us pets as well as guidance. You know, my little guy is Tinkerbell, and everybody thinks that she's still a kitten. She she's going to be 12 in September, so, but she's still a little tiny thing. She kept the name. She just wants to be a little Tinkerbell. So   Michael Hingson ** 11:24 that's cool. What a cute name for a kitty. Anyway, yeah, well, so you, you grew up? Did you go to to college or university?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 11:34 No, I got out of school. I was half a credit away from high school graduation. I became pregnant for the second time, and then I got married at 18. While it was more or less I was I had no choice to get married or or I would have, my father would have took my daughter from me, my oldest, who is alive, and I I had already lost one, and I wasn't losing a second one. So I got married. I did go back to adult school in 2000 I got I was one exam away from getting my GED, and that night, I got a beating of a lifetime from my ex husband, because he didn't want me to get ahead of him, right? So, and then I went back again to try and get my GED three other times, and I was always four points away from getting what I needed to get it. So I was just like, You know what? The universe doesn't want me to have this piece of paper, I guess. Yeah, and I'm not giving up, right? I'm just it's not the right timing and maybe in the future, and it's always the y and s string that gets me the four point question guys on the math exam that gets me every time, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:49 oh, well. Well, I always thought that my wife, in so many ways, was was ahead of me, and it didn't ever bother me, and it never will bother me a bit, just things that she would say, creative things, just clever things. She clearly was ahead of me, and I think she felt the same way about me in various ways, but that's what made for a great marriage. And we we worked off each other very well, and then that's kind of the way it really ought to be. Oh boy, ego, ego gets to be a real challenge sometimes, though, doesn't   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 13:24 it? Oh yes, it does. So   Michael Hingson ** 13:27 what did you do when you didn't go off and end up going to school?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 13:32 I became a mom, and then I did the mom role, right? I grew up in a kind of like a redneck, hillbilly kind of family where the accent kind of kicks in once in a while. You know, it was barefoot and pregnant, you take care of the kids, cook and clean and be the wife and just obey. Once again, that word obey. You know, I grew up with that word a lot, and that's why you don't like that word. I'm surprised I'm even using it tonight. But, yeah, so it was just take care of the family and just live. And eventually, in 2005 a lot of things happened with my children and myself, and we just left and started a new life. In 2006 I felt ill. I was at work, and my left arm went numb, and I thought I was having a heart attack or or that they were checking me since I was little, for MS as well, because I have a lot of problems with my legs. I fall a lot, so we're still looking into that, because I'm in the age range now where it can be diagnosed, you know, so we're so in 2006 I became ill, and I lost feelings from my hips down where I couldn't walk anymore. So I had to make some tough choices, and I reached out to my family, which I kind of. Figured I'd get that answer from them. They told me to get a backbone and take care of my own life and stop because I moved away from everybody. So I turned to the foster care system to help me with my children, and that was a hard choice. Michael, it took me two and a half months. My children sat down with me and said, Mommy, can we please stay where we are? We we have friends. You know, we're not moving all the time anymore. I saw it took a while, and I signed my kids over legal guardianship, but I made a deal with the services that I would stay in the children's lives. I would continue their visits twice a month, and be at all their graduations, be at their dance recital, anything I was there. I wanted my children to know that I was not giving up on them. I just was not able to take care of them in my   Michael Hingson ** 15:50 home. Did they accept that?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 15:53 Oh, they did, yeah, and it was a bumpy road. The first five years. Was a lot of adjusting, and we were really close. I got to pick the foster homes, which is not usually the way it works. So and my children went through a lot of abuse as well. My ex husband was very abusive, so I knew that my daughter needed to be around horses. She loved to be around horses, so I found her home that had horses. And my other two children, I found a home where they had music, and music was really important to me, because music is what saved me as well during my journey, right? I turned to music to to get through the hard times. So yeah, the first five years was it was adjustments, and really good, and we got along. And after that the services changed, new workers came in, and then it became a nightmare. There was less visits happening. There was an excuse for a visit. There was oh, well, maybe we can reschedule this, or if we do them at five in the morning, can you show up? And of course, I was showing up at five and going to bed as soon as the visit was done, because I was by myself, so it was a journey, but and I I am grateful for that journey, because today me and my older kids, who are adults, were really close, and we're building that bond again, and they understand the journey that Mom had to take in order for them to have a home.   Michael Hingson ** 17:24 They understand it and accept it, which is really obviously the important thing,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 17:30 yeah. But it's been, it's been rocky. Michael, like, you know, we've had our ups and downs. We've had like you You gave up on us. Like, you know, we've had those moments. But my children now becoming adults and becoming parents themselves. They see that. They see what mom had to do, right?   Michael Hingson ** 17:47 So are you able to walk now and move around?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 17:51 Oh, yeah, I was. It took about six months for me to learn how to walk again. I still have a limb from time to time. A lot of people call it my penguin little limp, because I limped like a little penguin from time to time, because my what happened is I went through so much trauma in my life constantly that I they diagnosed me with conversion disorder, which is not really well known to to a lot of people. And what it does is it shuts the body down, so I have no control over when my body says it's going to take a break. It just says I'm going on holidays, and you just gotta deal with it. So there's days where I can't walk, right? There's days where I can't talk. It sounds like I'm drunk. My sight is blurred, plus I'm already losing my sight because of genetic jerusa and stuff like that as well. So, but I mean, it took everything in me to push myself. And what pushed me was I had this nurse that was really rough with me, and she would give me these sponge baths, and she would slam me into the chair. And I told her, I said, next week, you will not be slamming me in that chair. And the next week I got up and I took three steps, and then the next couple hours, it was four, five steps, six steps. And I was like, I got this. I know I can do this, but it took six months, Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 19:15 but still, ultimately, the bottom line is, no rugby or American football for you. Huh? Nope. Okay.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 19:24 No, not you know, not yet. Anyway, well, maybe you never know, right? I'm still young. I'm only 51 you never know what I'm going to be doing next year. I always tell everybody, Miss Liz is always on an adventure.   Michael Hingson ** 19:36 So yeah, but I'm I'm not, I'm not an advocate of going off for rugby or football, but that's all right, do whatever works.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 19:42 Well, I'd like to watch football   19:45 that's different. I'd like to   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 19:47 check those boys out once in a while. Well, yeah, but yeah, no, I You just never know where I'm gonna go, right? Only the good universe knows where it's putting me next   Michael Hingson ** 19:58 year. So, so what kind. Of work. Did you did you do and, and what are you doing now? How to kind of one lead to the other?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 20:08 Actually, I started my business in 2015 of Miss Liz tea times. It was a fundraising Tea Party, but it started in my home. All I did was have a bunch of ladies over and celebrate strong women. And one lady really liked the layout that I did, and she's like, Can we do this in the community? I was like, I don't know. Let's try it. You know, if we don't try, we don't know. And then I went to the community for, I think, three years, we raised over $5,000 for different services that helped me along the way as well, and places that needed money for serving the community. And then we went virtual. When covid hit. The podcast came along, and I did that for five years, and I burnt myself out doing that. I'm an all or nothing kind of girl, so you either get nothing at all, or you get it all at once. So and and now I'm I've been writing and working on stuff and working on an E commerce business with a new way of serving tea, keeping people on their toes and wondering what's coming next. Uh, children's book is coming out soon. Uh, poultry book. So I've just been busy writing and doing a lot of different things.   Michael Hingson ** 21:14 What did you do before 2015 for worker income? Or did you   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 21:18 I worked in gas stations, chambermaid kind of stuff like that, something that wasn't too educated, because my ex husband didn't like that stuff, right? Don't try and be a leader. Don't try and be in the big business world. I'm sure he's his head is spinning now, seeing all the stuff that I'm doing, but that's on him, not me. So, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 21:41 yeah, absolutely, alright, let's get to it. Tell me about tea.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 21:49 Well, tea, tea started at four, and it was my OMA that gave me a cup of tea. And everybody thinks it's the beverage. It's not the beverage. We did have a cup of tea. So there is a beverage, there is a beverage involved. But she gave me words, and when I was little, I didn't understand these words. She said, reflect, recharge and release. And she came from the war in Germany, and she said the first thing I had was a cup of tea when I came to Canada, and she just knew that I was going to have a hard life. She knew that the family was kind of, you know, they had their sicknesses and addictions and stuff like that, so she just knew. And I was a quiet kid. I was always in the corner humming and rocking myself and doing stuff by myself. I didn't want to be around people. I was really loner. And she gave me these words, and these words resonated with me for years, and then I just kept hearing them, and I kept hearing Tea, tea. I know sometimes I'd be sitting in a room Michael by myself, and I'd be like, Okay, I don't want a cup of tea right now. Like, I don't know what this tea is like, but it was like the universe telling me that I needed to get tea out there. And I knew it wasn't a beverage. I knew it was. OMA gave me words. So we gotta bring words to the table. We gotta bring the stories to the table. She was giving me a story. She was telling me to stay strong, to recharge, to reflect, release all of the stuff that all of these things take right, to overcome stuff. You know, we have to reflect on the journey that we were put on, and recharge ourselves when we overdo ourselves and release, releasing and letting go of things that we know will never, ever get an answer to. So,   Michael Hingson ** 23:32 so you, what did you do with all of that? I mean that those are some pretty deep thoughts. Needless to say.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 23:38 Yeah, so I, I started with the tea time at home, and then when I went to the podcast, I would ask people, What is your tea? And then people were like, Miss Liz, I don't even like tea, like I'm a coffee drinker, or I like a good beer, or I'm just like, Okay, well, you don't even have to like the beverage. Like, it's not about the beverage. It's about our past, our present and our future. That's what the tea is, right? We all have that story. We all have the past, the present and the future, and how we how we look at it, and how we defined our stories, and how we tell our stories. So that's where the T is.   Michael Hingson ** 24:10 But you came up with words for the acronym eventually, yes, yes. When did you do that? And what were the words   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 24:20 I came up with the words I believe in 20, 2016 2017 and for me, it was teaching. I wanted to be a little kindergarten teacher when I was a little girl. So T was teaching right and teaching myself that the past was not going to define my future story. He was educational. I again. I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to educate people. I wanted to educate myself. Even though I didn't have those degrees and I didn't go to school and universities, I could still educate myself. I could still reach out. I could still research. I could still find answers myself. And a was awareness, just bringing awareness that our lives are different and. Can change them, right? Nobody can define how our stories end, except for ourselves. Yeah, and the A, A was awareness, and the awareness that, you know, that we can bring any form of awareness, good, bad or ugly, you know, and I bring a little bit of all of it through my stories, and through, through the the overcoming that I've had, right is, it's an ugly story. There were bad things that happened, but there are good results in the end, yeah, because had I not gone through what I went through, Michael, I would not be here having this conversation with you tonight,   Michael Hingson ** 25:37 or it'd be a totally different conversation, if at all you're right, absolutely. So you you deal a lot with being a mental health advocate, and that's very understandable, because of all of the things that that you went through. But what kind of really made you decide to do that?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 25:58 Mental health advocate was deep in my blood since 2010 when I went to the pharmacy and gave them all my medication and said, I no longer want any of this because they had me so numbed with antidepressants and painkillers and stuff that I didn't even know I had children. People were telling me, your kids are coming for a visit. And I was like, why are you telling me I have kids? Like I'm a kid myself, like I was going backwards. And I didn't know that I was married, that I had children, but my kids names were and I was just like, like, When is mom and dad coming to get me? Like, I was like, I was so messed up, Michael. And I was just like, I'm not doing this anymore. Um, August 29 of 2009 I brought my medication, and I said, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm taking ownership of my life. I'm being the advocate of my life. I do not need these pills. Yes, it will be hard, yes, I've got trauma, but there's another way of doing this.   Michael Hingson ** 26:55 Well, you're clearly a survivor, and you've made choices that demonstrate that by any standards, and obviously a mental health advocate, what do you think are some of the major misconceptions that people have about mental health today that they also just don't seem to want to get rid of?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 27:15 Well, a lot of people have this conception that if you take a pill, it's going to go away. You're healed, you know, and then they get hooked on pills, or they get hooked on this is easy fix, right? Like I said this afternoon in another interview, I did this certain this afternoon. Michael, you know, we get these diagnosis, but doctors don't really sit with us and explain the diagnosis to us, they don't really understand. They don't really explain the side effects of the pills that they're giving us, and then themselves, may not even know the full aspect of those diagnosis. They just put you on a checklist, right? You check A, B, C and D, okay. Well, you have bipolar. You got DCE and you got D ID, like, you know, it's charts, so we're not really taking the time to understand people. And mental health has a long way to go, a lot of a long way to break the stigma as well, because mental illness, most of it, cannot be seen. It cannot be understood, because it's inside the body, right?   Michael Hingson ** 28:23 Yeah. And a lot of people don't want to look and analyze that and try to help truly deal with it.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 28:32 Yeah. A lot of people will judge what they don't understand or what they're scared of understanding,   Michael Hingson ** 28:39 which is why it's fascinating, and we've had a number of people on unstoppable mindset who believe in Eastern medicine and alternative medicine, as opposed to just doing pills. And it's fascinating to talk to people, because they bring such insights into the conversation about the human body, and many of them have themselves, used these alternatives to cure or better themselves, so it makes perfect sense, but yeah, we still don't tend to want to deal with it. Yeah?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 29:17 Well, anything that's uncomfortable, right? We don't want to really face it, right? We want to run from it, or we want to say, Oh, it's fine. I'll get to it next week, and then next week comes to next month, and next month comes to next year, and you're still dealing with the the same trauma and the same pain, right? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 29:35 Well, so tell me about tea time with Miss Liz, because you've developed that. You've brought it into existence, and that obviously also helps deal with the mental health stigma. Tell me about that?   29:50 Well, I just   Michael Hingson ** 29:51 one question, but, well,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 29:53 I just really wanted to meet people, and I wanted to hear their stories, you know, because it gets lonely once in a while. And you're always telling your story, right? So I wanted to get other stories, but I didn't want to just deal with mental health. I wanted to deal with grief and abuse and things, everything that I've lived with, right? And it all goes back to trauma, like all three of them, abuse, grief, mental health, it deals with trauma in some form. And then I got, I got hooked to a bunch of people that found Miss Liz on on the airwaves, and then connected with you, Michael, you were a guest on Tea Time. Yeah, my last season, and, you know, and I got to go down a bunch of rabbit holes with a bunch of cool people. And tea time was just a place for everybody, just to come and share, share what they were doing and why they were doing it, right? So a lot a lot of the questions that I asked was your younger self way? What? How do you see your younger self to your older self, and why are you doing what you're doing today? And a lot of people are writing books because writing saved them through hard times in life as well. And a lot of mental health back in the 60s, 70s and 80s, were not spoken of. You know, it was really hush hush. Oh, that person's just a rebel, or that person's just a little crazy once in a while, or has too much to drink from time to time. So mental health wasn't really spoken about in those those decades, right? So,   Michael Hingson ** 31:27 yeah, and you know, but I hear what you're saying about writing, and you know, I I've written now three books, and I've learned a lot as I write each book, and I think there's a lot of value in it, but also it's more than writing, although writing is is a way to to really do it from the most personal standpoint possible. But as as you've pointed out, talking about it is also extremely important, and talking about whatever, whether it's a bad thing or a good thing, but talking about it as well as writing about it is is valuable, because if we take the time to do all of that, we'll learn a lot more than we think we will well.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 32:13 And there's so many different genres of writing, right? There's horror, there's fiction, there's non fiction, there's children's books, you know, but those are all storytellers too, in a different way.   Michael Hingson ** 32:24 Well, they are and and again, it's the the point is, though, that when you take the time to write, you really have to think about it, probably even more than, sometimes, than people, when they just talk about things. And as you're writing, like I said, you learn a lot no matter what genre of writing you're doing, you're putting yourself into it, and that, in of itself, helps educate and teach you   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 32:53 absolutely, you know, and I learned so much from a lot of the authors that were on Tea Time, You know, little tricks and little ways of making skits and scenes and characters and names for their characters. And I'd be like, well, where'd you get that name? And they'd be like, I don't know what, just a childhood name that was stuck with me for a long time. I really liked meeting authors that wrote their memoirs or stories, because I'm a person that likes truth. I'm a truth seeker. You know, if it doesn't, it doesn't match up. I'm just like, let me ask you more questions. Let me take you down this rabbit hole a little more. So,   Michael Hingson ** 33:35 yeah, well, a lot of people tend to not want to talk about their journey or talk about themselves, and they feel unseen and unheard. How would you advise them? What would you advise them to do?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 33:51 I felt that way for many years. Michael, growing up in the in the situation that I grew up in, right? You did, and I wrote my first book. I was a co author in the Sacred Hearts rising series by compiled by Brenda Hammond in Alberta. And her book, hear me, kept reaching out to me. I kept hearing I didn't even know what the book was. It was just the title was hear me. And I kept saying, I want people to hear me. I want I want to be heard like, I want people to know this, like I'm tired of living in silence, you know, just to keep everybody hush hush, because everybody's comfortable. So I reached out to Brenda, and that's how my writing journey started. Was with Brenda, and I wrote my first chapter in there, and and it just continued to the ripple effect into other books and other anthologies and other people. And I find that the universe is guiding me, like bringing me to the people that I need to see. You know, like meeting you. Michael, like, had I not started a podcast and met Mickey Mickelson, I would have never met you. Michael, so Mm hmm.   Michael Hingson ** 34:54 And he continues to to be a driving force in helping a lot of authors. Absolutely.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 35:00 Absolutely, yeah. I'm not even sure how Mickey found me. We had a video call, and the next thing I knew, we were working together for three years, and I got to meet incredible authors through Mickey. Creative edge, and it's, it was one of the driving force of Tea Time with Miss Liz.   Michael Hingson ** 35:19 I can't remember exactly how I first heard of Mickey, either, but we we chatted, and we've been working together ever since.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 35:29 Yeah, Mickey is pretty awesome. I still keep my eyes on Mickey, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 35:36 and for those who don't know, Mickey is kind of a publicist. He works with authors and helps find podcasts and other opportunities for authors to talk about what they do and to interact with the world.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 35:50 Yeah. And then I got Yeah. And then I got to meet other people that found me on the airwave, through my press releases and through me speaking at different events. I had other people reach out with their authors and their members and all of that. And I got to meet some really incredible people, like I've had doctors on Tea Time. I've had Hollywood directors on Tea Time. I've had best selling authors like yourself Michael, like, you know, I got to meet some really incredible people. And then I got to meet other people as well that were doing movements and orphanages and stuff like that. We reached over 72 countries, you know, just people reaching out and saying, Hey, Miss Liz, can we have tea? And absolutely, let's sit down. Let's see what? Where you gotta go with your tea?   Michael Hingson ** 36:35 So you're in another season of tea time right now. No,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 36:39 I'm not. A lot of people are asking me to come back. I don't know if I will come back. I am working on, like I said, the E commerce drop shipping company for Miss Liz. I'm working on children's book. I'm working on poultry. I'm doing a lot of interviews now for my own books, daytime books and stuff like that. But I am reconsidering coming back maybe for a couple surprise podcast interviews. So   Michael Hingson ** 37:07 well, tell us about the E commerce site, the store.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 37:11 Well, that was supposed to be launched on my birthday. I like to give myself birthday gifts because I'm by myself a lot. So two years ago, I gave myself the tea books for my birthday. And this year I was supposed to give the E commerce drop shipping, where we opened a second branch of Miss Liz's tea, where we changed the letter A to E, so T, E, E instead of T, E, A. But if you look at my OMA, who comes from Germany, T in Germany, is tee, so we're still keeping almost T, we're just bringing it in a different way. And   Michael Hingson ** 37:45 what does it stand for? Do you have definition   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 37:50 of it for the for this T? We have transcend embrace and envision. So transcend beyond the story that we all tell. Embrace Your embrace the journey that you're on and envision your dreams and visions that you can move forward.   Michael Hingson ** 38:07 So how's the E commerce site coming?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 38:11 It's coming along. We got a couple of hiccups. I just want to make sure that everything is good to go. We have over 100 different products, and again, we do not have the tea beverage on the site. So you guys can see that Miss Liz is staying true to herself, that it is not about a beverage, but we do have an inner journey happening. So you'll have to check that out. So we have some some candles and some journals, some fashion that Miss Liz has created. So there's a lot of cool things that you'll see, and then we have some collaboration. So if any of the businesses out there would like to collaborate with missus, because I'm big on collaboration, we can maybe come up with a brand or or a journal or something that we can work two brands together to create a bigger inner journey for people   Michael Hingson ** 39:02 to enjoy. Is the site up.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 39:05 It was up, and we had to take it down because there were some glitches in it, and I wanted to make sure that it so we're hoping that it's going to be going for June 1. I don't like to set dates, because then I get disappointed, right? If something comes up. So it was supposed to be May 17, guys, and I know that a lot of people were looking forward to it. My children were looking forward to it because of the fashion. And there's something for everyone on on the new website, for children, for parent, for mothers, for fathers, for family. So I wanted to make sure that everybody was included.   Michael Hingson ** 39:41 Tell me about some of the fashion things.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 39:44 So we have inner journeys. So I had an eating disorder from the age of 12 Michael, so I had a body image all the time. So I wanted to make sure that we felt beautiful about ourselves. So we have some summer dresses. In there, we have some swimwear. Swimwear was another thing that I didn't really like to wear growing up. I like to be covered a lot. So we and then we have undergarments for people to feel beautiful within themselves. And then we have hoodies and T shirts. But we have messages, little tea messages from Miss Liz.   Michael Hingson ** 40:23 Now, are most of these fashion things mainly for women, or are there some men ones on there as well?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 40:28 No, we have men. Men have stories too. So there, there's, I thought. So, yeah, we have men in there. We and we have, I'm really big on having men share their stories, because I have a son. I've said this on many platforms. I would want my son to have the same services that his mother has. So of course, there's a men where in there, there are children's wear in there as well, and there's some puzzles and some diamond art and all of that. So there's a little bit of everything in there.   Michael Hingson ** 41:00 So how do you use all of the different mechanisms that you have to promote awareness? I think I know the answer to this, but I'd like you to tell how you're promoting awareness, mental health and otherwise awareness.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 41:15 I think the way that I'm promoting myself and my brand, Michael is just show up and be yourself, believe in yourself and stay true to yourself, be your real tea, you know. And the way that I'm branding and marketing it is, I'm breathing different. So when you hear tea, you think the beverage right away. Well, then when you hear Miss Liz, you know, Miss Liz is not bringing a beverage. So right over the way you're getting different, right? And I like to keep people on your toes, because they think that they might know what's coming, but they don't know same as, like the fashion, where you might think you know what's coming, but then you'll be like, Whoa. This is not what I was thinking.   Michael Hingson ** 41:54 And you and you put as you said, sayings and other things on there, which help promote awareness as   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 41:59 well. Absolutely, yeah, and it's simple phrases that I use all the time. You tell me, I can't, and I'll show you I can. You know, it lives in you. These are some of the brand messages that I have on my on my merchandise. Also, men have stories too simple phrases. You know that we just gotta make awareness. It's so simple sometimes that we overthink it and we overdo it, that we just gotta keep it simple.   Michael Hingson ** 42:28 Mm, hmm. Which? Which make perfect sense? Yeah. So you, you talk a lot about mental health. Have we made improvements in society regarding mental health, and how do we do more to represent marginalized voices? Oh,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 42:50 we got lots of work to do. Michael, we're not even close, you know, we're just on the touch of the iceberg for mental health. We have all these organizations that are competing with each other instead of collaborating. I think we would really make a huge difference if we started working together instead of against each other. Or my service is better than your service. Let's start just collaborating together and working together as one. You know that all this division in the mental health world is what's causing the distractions and the delays in services and and getting help? You know, I think we just need to start working together. And collaboration is not weakness. It's not taking somebody else's product away. It's working together. It's teamwork. And I think we need more teamwork out there.   Michael Hingson ** 43:41 We also need to somehow do more to educate the governments to provide some of the funding that they should be providing to help this process.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 43:51 Absolutely, and I think the statuses need to really be looked at. They're not even close.   Michael Hingson ** 43:59 Yeah, I I agree there, there's a long way to go to to deal with it,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 44:04 absolutely. You know, just throwing numbers out there to have numbers, but not actually getting the real factual information out there can cause a lot more damage.   Michael Hingson ** 44:17 So if you could shift one mindset regarding mental health, what would it   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 44:24 be? Oh, good question. Michael, hmm, that we're not alone, okay, because a lot of people with mental illness think they're alone, but we're actually not alone. There's, there's a lot of people out there that are feeling the same thing as us,   Michael Hingson ** 44:47 and that's a mindset that people have, that we need to to deal with. We need to change. We need to teach people that the reality. Is there a lot of people, whether they've experienced the same things as as any individual has or not, isn't the issue. But there are a lot of people who do want to be more welcoming, and there are a lot of people who could learn to be more welcoming than they are   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 45:18 absolutely Well, I think it starts with a conversation, right? Having these conversations, a lot of people don't want to talk about mental health because they don't want to know the truth. They just want to know what society says, right, what the system say, what the services say, but they're not actually advocating for themselves. I think if we all started advocating for our mental health, we would make the impact and the change as well,   Michael Hingson ** 45:45 yeah, but we need to really, somehow develop a collective voice and Absolutely, and that's part of the problem. I know that with the world of disabilities in general, the difficulty is that, although it is probably well, it is one of the largest minorities, maybe the second largest in the world, depending on whether you want to consider women the minority. Although there are more women than men, or men the minority, the reality is that the difficulty is that there are so many different kinds of disabilities that we face and some that we don't even recognize. But the problem is that everyone totally interacts within their own disability to the point where they don't find ways to work together nearly as as much as they can. And it doesn't mean that each disability isn't unique, because they are, and that needs to be addressed, but there's a lot more power if people learn to work together   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 46:46 exactly. I'm with you, with that, Michael, because there's so many disabilities that you don't see right, that you don't hear about, somebody will talk about a new diagnosis that nobody knows about or is unaware of, like when I, when I talk about conversion disorder, a lot of people don't know about it, and I'm just like, check it out. You know, I'm a lady that actually has crazy papers, so if I go a little crazy on people, I can get away with it. I got the paper for it, right? So, but the thing is, the doctors, they they need more education as well. They need to be educated as well, not just the society, not just the public, but also the doctors that are working in those   Michael Hingson ** 47:29 fields. There's so many examples of that. You know, website access for people with disabilities is a major issue, and we don't teach in most schools, in most places where we where we have courses to instruct people on how to code, we don't really make making websites inclusive and accessible a major part of the courses of study, and so the result is that we don't tend to provide a mechanism where people shift their mindset and realize how important it is to make sure that their websites are fully inclusive to all. It's the same kind of concept. Yeah.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 48:12 Well, I think we all could learn a little bit more, right when we when we all get to this point where we we've learned everything. I think that's where society gets ignorant towards disability, right? You know, living with disability myself, Michael, I've had a lot of people say, Well, you look fine. There's nothing wrong with you. Why? Why? Why you like this? You know, why? And my answer is, why are you that way? Why are you judging something you're not seeing? You know, it's just like in grief, you don't see grief. It lives within us. You don't see abuse. The person is usually living within a home that is told what happens in the home. Stays in a home, you know, or they they try to mask it and hide the real truth, right? Yeah, and that, and that's a form of trauma as well, because we're being told to hush. So then when we start speaking, well, then we start doubting ourselves, right? The self doubt kicks in, oh, maybe I shouldn't say that, or I shouldn't do that, or I shouldn't, you know, be there. So you start to self doubt everything. I did that for many years. I self doubt why I was in a room with a bunch of people, or why I was speaking at that event, or why I wrote in that book, or and then I was just like, You know what? I am enough, and we all are enough, and we all can be seen in a different light. My   Michael Hingson ** 49:41 favorite example illustrating some of what you're talking about is that I had a phone conversation with someone once, and arranged for them to come to our apartment. I was on campus at the time, living in an on campus apartment, and the guy came out that afternoon, and I answered the door and he said, I'm looking for Michael Hinks. And I said, I'm Michael. Hanks, and his comment was, you didn't sound blind on the telephone. Now, I've never understood what it means to sound blind, but whatever. Wow. Yeah, it's, it's amazing, you know. And I was polite enough not to say, Well, you didn't sound stupid on the phone either. But yeah,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 50:22 right, that that would, that would be something I would say. Now, back in the day, I was a little mouse, now I'm a lion, and I'm just like, oh, yeah, right. Like, tap for Taft man, like,   Michael Hingson ** 50:33 Well, yeah, but there, there are ways to deal with things like that. But it, it still worked out. But it was just an amazing thing that he said, yeah,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 50:43 it surprises me what some people say. Sometimes I'm just like, Really, wow.   Michael Hingson ** 50:50 So you've done well, a lot of international speaking. Where have you traveled to speak?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 50:55 I spoke in Detroit in 2020, 20 or 2021, I can't remember the year Michael, but I spoke at the Sean fair tour, and I spoke on tea, of course, and my journey, and my story and my journey on how I'm just a different woman who wants to come to the table and make a difference. I just want to show people that if as long as we're trying, we can make a difference, as long as we're showing up, tired, broke, frustrated, we're making a difference, you know? And that's, that's my message to everybody, is just show up, just be you, and not everybody needs to like you, you know. I'm not everyone's cup of tea, and I don't want to be everyone's cup of tea.   Michael Hingson ** 51:38 Mm, hmm. You can only do and should only do what you do, yeah, but   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 51:44 And yeah. And then I'll be speaking in October. I just spoke at an event here in Cornwall, in my local area, for empowered to recovery with Jay Bernard. Bernard, and in October, I'll be speaking in North Bay for an elementary student, my sister and she actually went to school with my sister. She actually found me through my books. And she's she runs this youth group, and she'd like me to go speak to the youths on empowerment and and and the tea, of course,   Michael Hingson ** 52:16 always worth talking to kids. It's so much fun. Yeah. Yeah. And the neat thing about the most neat thing about speaking to children is there's so much more uninhibited. They're not afraid to ask questions, which is so great.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 52:32 I love questions like, I I love when I talk to people and they have some questions like, What? What is this tea that you keep talking about? And I'm just like, the tea is just the grab guys. It's just to get you hooked. It's like going fishing and catching a good fish, like, I put the hook in the water, and you all come and you join and you have a tea with me.   Michael Hingson ** 52:56 But still, children are so much more uninhibited. If, if I deliver a talk, mainly to kids, even kindergarten through sixth or seventh grade, they're much more open to asking questions. Sometimes they have to be encouraged a little bit. But boy, when the questions start, the kids just keep coming up with them, which is so great.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 53:20 Great. It's that ripple effect that first person to break the ice, to ask the first question, and then it just rolls.   Michael Hingson ** 53:26 It's a lot harder with adults to get them to to do that. Yeah, and it is. It is, even then, though, when adults start to ask questions, and the questions open up, then we get a lot of good interactions, but it is more of a challenge to get adults to open and ask questions than it is children. And it's so much fun because you never know what question a child is going to ask, which is what makes it so fun, too, because there's so much more uninhibited   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 54:01 and the imagination of a child. I love speaking like what my granddaughter, she's four, and the conversations we have about dragons and tooth fairies and and good monsters, because I don't like bad monsters, she knows grandma doesn't like bad monsters, so we talk about good monsters. And it's just the stories, the imagination, that opens up new, new ways of seeing things and seeing life. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 54:29 you've gotten a number of awards, humanitarian awards, and and other kinds of awards. Tell me a little bit about those.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 54:36 Honestly, Michael, I don't know how I got those awards. I was just being myself, and I guess a lot of people nominated me for stuff, and they were just like, you gotta check this. Miss Liz out, you know, and even some awards, I'm just like, Why me? You know, all I did was be myself. I'm grateful for them, I and I appreciate the awards. But. I don't, I don't want to be known for the awards, if that makes any sense.   Michael Hingson ** 55:03 Mm, hmm, I understand well, but you've been successful. What does success mean to you?   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 55:10 Success means showing up for myself.   Michael Hingson ** 55:14 Tell me more about that.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 55:17 Of course. You know, success is different for everybody, right? Some people want the million dollars they want. They want the best seller they want. You know, they want the big business. They want the big house. For me, success is just showing up. Growing up. Nobody showed up for me. So I knew at a young age I had to show up for myself, and that was my success story. Was just showing up. There's days I really don't want to be here. I'm just tired of showing up, but I still show up tired, you know. So that's my success story, and I think that's going to be my success story until the day I die. Michael is just show up.   Michael Hingson ** 55:58 Well, there's a lot to be said for showing up, and as long as you do show up, then people get to see you, right? Yeah, which is, which is the whole point. And again, as we talked about earlier, that's the choice that you made. So you decided that you were going to show up and you were going to be you, and you also talk about it, which is, I think, extremely important, because so many people won't, not a criticism. But last year, I spoke at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival in April of 2024 and it was a and every year they hold this festival, and it's a celebration of American history. One of the people there was a secret service agent who rode in the car right behind JFK when he was assassinated, and it took him 45 years before he could talk about it. It was that traumatic for him, and he just wasn't able to move on. Eventually he was able to talk about it, and he was at the festival, as I was last year, and did speak about it. But it's it is hard, it is a major endeavor and effort to make the choice to show up, to to face whatever you have to deal with and move on from it or move on with it. I, you know, I talk about Karen, my wife passing, and I will never say I move on from Karen. I continue to move forward, but I don't want to move on. I don't want to forget her Absolutely. And there's a big difference between moving on and moving forward. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Michael, no, that's it.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 57:45 You know, we look at life differently, right? Different perspectives and, and that's the whole thing with the T is looking at life differently. We all have a past, we all have a present, and we all have a future, right? And it's how we look at our past. Do we stay stuck in our past, like a lot of people are, mislead your in the past? No, I'm not. I speak of the past, but I'm not in the past. I'm in the present moment, and my trauma is real and it's raw, and I'm dealing with it, and I'm healing from it. And the future, I don't know where the future's taking me. I just buckle up and go for the adventure and see where it takes me. If it means writing another book or it means taking a trip or getting a job in a third world country, that's where I go. I'm, you know, moving forward from all of the trauma that I've lived through. I don't want to forget it. Mm, hmm. A lot of people like I would you change anything? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't change a single thing.   Michael Hingson ** 58:45 There's a difference between remembering and being aware of it and being bitter and hating it. And I think that's the important part,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 58:53 yeah. And speaking of the past is not it's not a bad thing. It because the past is part of us, right? We were little kids once upon a time like there, you know, not everything was all bad. There was good moments. You know, there was more bad times for me than there was good, but there were good moments. I had good memories of spending with my grandparents on the farm and, you know, playing in the wrecked up cars and pretending I was a race car driver and stuff like that, you know, playing in the mud, making mud pies, putting them in the oven. You know, these were good memories that I have, you know, so those are what I hold on to. I hold on to the good stuff. I don't hold on to that heavy stuff.   Michael Hingson ** 59:33 Well, at least at this point, what do you see in the future for Miss Liz   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 59:39 travel? I so want to travel. I, you know, I've traveled the world, well, 72 countries, in this rocking chair. I would like to take this rocking chair in person. I would like to have a stage. I would like to have people come and talk and share their stories on a miss Liz's platform stage. That is the goal for Miss Liz.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:01 To travel and to really meet people from a lot of new and different places,   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:00:07 absolutely, and meet all the guests I had on Tea Time. That is one of my goals. So when the universe gets on my good side, maybe I'll be traveling and meeting you face to face one day, Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:18 or we'll travel up there when, when we can, I know right now there are many challenges because of our governments putting roadblocks in the way. I've applied to speak at several events in Canada, and I've been told right now, well, the political situation, political situation is such that we can't really bring anybody in from the United States. And, you know, I understand that. I I think that there's so much to add, but I also understand that they don't want to take those chances, and that's fine.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:00:48 Yeah, we've been told the same, no traveling, vice versa. There's so, you know, it will calm itself down. We just got to give it some   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:57 time. It will, you know, it isn't going to go on forever, and we'll just have to deal with it. Well, if you had the opportunity to go back and give your younger Miss Liz some advice, what would it be? Drink More tea. Drink More tea of the liquid kind or the other kind.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:01:17 No. Drink the real stuff like drink, the beverage, drink the real stuff. Like, you know, speaking of tea all the time, you know, my favorite tea is jasmine tea. I wish I could drink more jasmine tea, but when I drink jasmine tea, it brings it brings back a memory of my Uma, and it it's hard for me so but drink more tea, like, actually sit down and have more conversations with OMA and see what else OMA had in   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:44 the back there for her. Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, I, I must say, I've never been a coffee drinker, but I got converted to drinking tea years ago, and I've been doing it ever since. My favorite is PG Tips, black tea, and I can get it from Amazon, so we do it.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:01:59 That's a good one too. Yeah, I'm not a real big tea drinker, but guys, I do know a little bit about tea.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:06 Well, I drink it more because it's a hot drink and it's got less calories than hot chocolate. Otherwise, I would be drinking hot chocolate all the time. But after September 11, I tend to clear my throat a lot, so drinking hot beverages helps, and I've just never liked coffee like I've learned to like tea, so I drink tea.   Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:02:26 Yeah. What's for you? Yeah, he's good for you. Look what it did to me. It made me who I am today.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:32 There you are in so many ways. Well, I want to than

Episode Summary: In this episode, Benoy sits down with Kent Halliburton, CEO of Sazmining, to explore the surprising parallels between Solar and Bitcoin mining. Kent explains how Sazmining makes Bitcoin mining simple for everyday investors, why mining thrives on renewable energy, and what both industries can learn from each other. They also dive into the future of money, hyperinflation, and lessons from building companies in two disruptive industries. Biographies Benoy Thanjan Benoy Thanjan is the Founder and CEO of Reneu Energy, solar developer and consulting firm, and a strategic advisor to multiple cleantech startups. Over his career, Benoy has developed over 100 MW of solar projects across the U.S., helped launch the first residential solar tax equity funds at Tesla, and brokered $45 million in Renewable Energy Credits (“REC”) transactions. Prior to founding Reneu Energy, Benoy was the Environmental Commodities Trader in Tesla's Project Finance Group, where he managed one of the largest environmental commodities portfolios. He originated REC trades and co-developed a monetization and hedging strategy with senior leadership to enter the East Coast market. As Vice President at Vanguard Energy Partners, Benoy crafted project finance solutions for commercial-scale solar portfolios. His role at Ridgewood Renewable Power, a private equity fund with 125 MW of U.S. renewable assets, involved evaluating investment opportunities and maximizing returns. He also played a key role in the sale of the firm's renewable portfolio. Earlier in his career, Benoy worked in Energy Structured Finance at Deloitte & Touche and Financial Advisory Services at Ernst & Young, following an internship on the trading floor at D.E. Shaw & Co., a multi billion dollar hedge fund. Benoy holds an MBA in Finance from Rutgers University and a BS in Finance and Economics from NYU Stern, where he was an Alumni Scholar.   Kent Halliburton Kent is the CEO and Co-Founder of Sazmining and a veteran in the renewable energy sector. Kent led sales and business development for a publicly traded solar energy company, managing a team of over 100 people with a 9-figure sales target.   Stay Connected: Benoy Thanjan Email: info@reneuenergy.com  LinkedIn: Benoy Thanjan Website: https://www.reneuenergy.com   Kent Halliburton Liinkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalliburton/ Website:  https://www.sazmining.com/ Twitter:  khaliburton    Financial Raise for Sazmining-https://invest.timestampfinancial.com/offering/sazmining/details Books Mentioned: Check Your Financial Privilege by Alex Gladstein Broken Money by Lyn Alden

Today it's my honor to speak with Danica Savonick about her marvelous book entitled Open Admissions: The Poetics and Pedagogy of Toni Cade Bambara, June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Adrienne Rich in the Era of Free College. This is a riveting and deeply inspiring story of how each of these luminaries in the fields of literature and feminism found their way into the City University of New York in the 1960s, when community activists had forced open what was called the Harvard for the proletariat to admit new classes of Black, brown, and other people of color.  Savonick shows through copious archival research how Bambara, Jordan, Lorde and Rich each came to find radical teaching methods in collaboration with these new students, and how their experiences with this new pedagogy affected their creative and other writing in profound and lasting manners. This is a critical history we can and must learn from today, when federal and state governments have added to the damage and violence done by the neoliberal university. We find exactly the tools and models we need to create spaces for education for liberation both within, but also outside, the Academy.Check out our blog, featuring these writers' teaching materials!Danica Savonick is an Associate Professor of English at SUNY Cortland and the author of Open Admissions: The Poetics and Pedagogy of Toni Cade Bambara, June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Adrienne Rich in the Era of Free College (Duke University Press, 2024). Her current project focuses on the radical writers and artists who taught at the experimental Livingston College (part of Rutgers University) in the 1970s. Her research has appeared in MELUS, American Literature, Modern Fiction Studies, Radical Teacher, Keywords for Digital Pedagogy in the Humanities, Public Books, and The Chronicle of Higher Ed.

While I discuss often how I prepared for an emergency while working in the World Trade Center I, of course, did not anticipate anything happening that would threaten my life. However, when a major emergency occurred, I was in fact ready. I escaped and survived. Since September 11, 2001, I have met many people who in one way or another work to help others plan for emergencies. Sometimes these people are taken seriously and, all too often, they are ignored.   I never truly understood the difference between emergency preparedness and business continuity until I had the opportunity to have this episode's guest, Chris Miller, on Unstoppable Mindset. I met Chris as a result of a talk I gave in October 2024 at the conference on Resilience sponsored in London England by the Business Continuity Institute.   Chris was born and lived in Australia growing up and, in fact, still resides there. After high school she joined the police where she quickly became involved in search and rescue operations. As we learn, she came by this interest honestly as her father and grandfather also were involved in one way or another in law enforcement and search and rescue.   Over time Chris became knowledgeable and involved in training people about the concept of emergency preparedness.   Later she expanded her horizons to become more involved in business continuity. As Chris explains it, emergency preparedness is more of a macro view of keeping all people safe and emergency preparedness aware. Business Continuity is more of a topic that deals with one business at a time including preparing by customizing preparedness based on the needs of that business.   Today Chris is a much sought after consultant. She has helped many businesses, small and large, to develop continuity plans to be invoked in case of emergencies that could come from any direction.     About the Guest:   Chris has decades of experience in all aspects of emergency and risk management including enterprise risk management. For 20 years, she specialised in ‘full cycle' business continuity management, organisational resilience, facilitating simulation exercises and after-action reviews.   From January 2022 to July 2024, Chris worked as a Short-Term Consultant (STC) with the World Bank Group in Timor-Leste, the Kingdom of Eswatini (formerly Swaziland) and the South Asia Region (SAR) countries – Bhutan, Bangladesh, Nepal, India, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Thailand.   Other clients have ranged in size from 2 to more than 100,000 employees. She has worked with large corporates such as NewsCorp; not for profits; and governments in Australia and beyond.   Chris has received several awards for her work in business continuity and emergency management. Chris has presented at more than 100 conferences, facilitated hundreds of workshops and other training, in person and virtually. In 2023, Chris became the first woman to volunteer to become National President and chair the Board of the Australasian Institute of Emergency Services (AIES) in its soon to be 50-year history.   Ways to connect with Chris:   https://b4crisis.com.au/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrismillerb4crisis/ with 10+K followers https://x.com/B4Crisis with 1990 followers     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. . Well, hi everyone, and I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, and today, I guess we get to talk about the unexpected, because we're going to be chatting with Chris Miller. Chris is in Australia and has been very heavily involved in business continuity and emergency management, and we'll talk about all that. But what that really comes down to is that she gets to deal with helping to try to anticipate the unexpected when it comes to organizations and others in terms of dealing with emergencies and preparing for them. I have a little bit of sympathy and understanding about that myself, as you all know, because of the World Trade Center, and we got to talk about it in London last October at the Business Continuity Institute, which was kind of fun. And so we get to now talk about it some more. So Chris, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Chris Miller ** 02:22 Oh, thanks very much, Michael, and I was very impressed by your presentation, because in the emergency space, preparedness is everything that is the real return on investment. So you were wonderful case study of preparedness.   Michael Hingson ** 02:37 Well, thank you. Now I forget were you there or were you listening or watching virtually.   Chris Miller ** 02:42 I was virtual that time. I have been there in person for the events in London and elsewhere. Sometimes they're not in London, sometimes in Birmingham and other major cities, yeah, but yeah, I have actually attended in person on one occasion. So it's a long trip to go to London to go.   Michael Hingson ** 03:03 Yeah, it is. It's a little bit of a long trip, but still, it's something that, it is a subject worth talking about, needless to say,   Chris Miller ** 03:13 Absolutely, and it's one that I've been focusing on for more than 50 years.   Michael Hingson ** 03:18 Goodness, well, and emergencies have have been around for even longer, but certainly we've had our share of emergencies in the last 50 years.   Chris Miller ** 03:30 Sure have in your country and mine, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 03:34 Well, let's start maybe, as I love to do, tell us a little bit about the early Chris growing up and all that sort of stuff that's funny to talk about the early days.   Chris Miller ** 03:47 Well, I came from a family that loved the mountains, and so it was sort of natural that I would sort of grow up in the mountains close to where I was born, in Brisbane and southeast Queensland. And we have a series of what we call coastal ranges, or border ranges, between Queensland and New South Wales, which are two of the largest states in Australia. And so I spent a lot of time hunting around there. So I sort of fell into emergency management just by virtue of my parents love of the mountains and my familiarity with them and and then I joined the police, and in no time at all, I was training other people to do search and rescues. And that was me in the early days.   Michael Hingson ** 04:31 What got you involved in dealing with search and rescue?   Chris Miller ** 04:36 Oh, it was volunteer in those days. It still is now actually with the State Emergency Service, but it's sort of become more formalized. It used to be sort of, you know, friends and family and people that knew the territory would help out from somebody managed to get themselves a bit tangled up some of those coastal ranges, even to this day, I. You can't use GPS because it's rain forest, and so the rain forest canopy is so dense that you'd have to cut trees down, and it's a national park, you can't do that and or climb the tree. Good luck with that one. You still can't get satellite coverage, so you actually have to know the country. But what?   Michael Hingson ** 05:24 What caused you to actually decide to take that up or volunteer to do that? That's, you know, pretty, pretty interesting, I would think, but certainly something that most people don't tend to do.   Chris Miller ** 05:38 Well, my family's interest in there. My parents have always been very community minded, so, you know, and it's the Australian way, if someone needs help and you can help, you throw them do so,   Michael Hingson ** 05:51 okay, that makes sense. So you joined the police, and you got very much involved in in dealing with search and rescue. And I would presume, knowing you, that you became pretty much an expert in it as much as one can.   Chris Miller ** 06:06 Oh, well, I wouldn't be so reckless as to say experts, because there's always so much to learn. And, yeah, and the systems keep changing. I mean, with GPS and and, for instance, in the early days of search and rescue helicopters were a rare treat. Now they're sort of part of the fabric of things. And now there's drones, and there's all sorts of high tech solutions that have come into the field in the lengthy time that I've been involved in. It's certainly not just ramping around the bush and hoping to find someone it's a lot more complex, but   Michael Hingson ** 06:41 as you but as you pointed out, there are still places where all the tech in the world isn't necessarily going to help. Is it   Chris Miller ** 06:52 exactly and interestingly, my mother in her teenage years, was involved with a fellow called Bernard O'Reilly, and he did a fantastic rescue of a plane crash survivors and and he he claimed that he saw a burnt tree in the distance. Well, I've stood on the Rift Valley where he claimed to see the burnt tree, and, my goodness, he's also it must have been better than mine, because it's a long way, but he was a great believer in God, and he believed that God led him to these people, and he saved them. And it's fascinating to see how many people, over the years, have done these amazing things. And Bernard was a very low key sort of fellow, never one to sort of see publicity, even though he got more than He probably wanted. And they've been television series and movies and, goodness knows, books, many books written about this amazing rescue. So I sort of grew up with these stories of these amazing rescues. And my father came from Tasmania, where his best friend David ended up mountain rescue. So I sort of was born into it. It was probably in my genes, and it just no escaping   Michael Hingson ** 08:12 you came into it naturally, needless to say, so that just out of curiosity, you can answer or not. But where does all of this put you in terms of believing in God,   Chris Miller ** 08:25 oh, well, there's probably been points in my life where I've been more of a believer than ever.   Michael Hingson ** 08:33 Yeah. Well, there. There are a lot of things that happen that often times we we seem not to be able to explain, and we we chalk it up to God's providence. So I suppose you can take that as you will. I've talked about it before on unstoppable mindset, but one of my favorite stories of the World Trade Center on September 11 was a woman who normally got up at seven every morning. She got up, got dressed, went to the World Trade Center where she worked. I forget what floor she was on, but she was above where the planes would have hit, and did hit. But on this particular day, for some reason, she didn't set her alarm to go off at 7am she set it accidentally to go off at 7pm so she didn't get up in time, and she survived and wasn't in the World Trade Center at all. So what was that? You know, they're just so many stories like that, and it, it certainly is a reason to keep an open mind about things nevertheless,   Chris Miller ** 09:39 well, and I've also worked with a lot of Aboriginal people and with the World Bank, with with other people that have, perhaps beliefs that are different to what we might consider more traditional beliefs in Western society. And it's interesting how their spirituality their belief system. Yeah. Has often guided them too soon.   Michael Hingson ** 10:03 Well, there's, there's something to be said for that. Needless to say, well, so you, did you go to college? Or did you go out of whatever high school type things and then go into the police? Or what?   Chris Miller ** 10:18 Um, yes, I joined the police from high school, I completed my high school graduation, as you call it in America, police academy, where in Brisbane, Oxley and then the Queensland Police Academy, and subsequent to that, I went to university part time while I was a police officer, and graduated and so on and so   Michael Hingson ** 10:41 on. So you eventually did get a college degree.   10:45 True, okay,   Michael Hingson ** 10:48 well, but you were also working, so that must have been pretty satisfying to do,   Chris Miller ** 10:55 but, but it was tricky to especially when you're on shift work trying to going to excuse me, study and and hold on a more than full time job?   Michael Hingson ** 11:09 Yeah, had to be a challenge. It was,   Chris Miller ** 11:13 but it was worth it and, and I often think about my degree and the learnings I did psychology and sociology and then how it I often think a university degree isn't so much the content, it's it's the discipline and the and the analysis and research and all the skills that you Get as part of the the process. It's important.   Michael Hingson ** 11:42 Yeah, I agree. I think that a good part of what you do in college is you learn all about analysis, you learn about research, you learn about some of these things which are not necessarily talked about a lot, but if you you do what you're supposed to do. Well those are, are certainly traits that you learn and things that you you develop in the way of tools that can help you once you graduate,   Chris Miller ** 12:13 absolutely and continue to be valuable and and this was sort of reinforced in the years when I was post graduate at the University of Queensland, and was, was one of the representatives on the arts faculty board, where we spend a lot of time actually thinking about, you know, what is education? What are we trying to achieve here? Not just be a degree factory, but what are we actually trying to share with the students to make them better citizens and contribute in various ways.   Michael Hingson ** 12:50 Yeah, I know that last year, I was inducted as an alumni member of the Honor Society, phi, beta, kappa, and I was also asked to deliver the keynote speech at the induction dinner for all of the the students and me who were inducted into phi, Beta Kappa last June. And one of the things that I talked about was something that I've held dear for a long time, ever since I was in college, a number of my professors in physics said to all of us, one of the things that you really need to do is to pay attention to details. It isn't enough to get the numeric mathematical answer correct. You have to do things like get the units correct. So for example, if you're talking about acceleration, you need to make sure that it comes out meters per second squared. It isn't just getting a number, but you've got to have the units and other things that that you deal with. You have to pay attention to the details. And frankly, that has always been something that has stuck with me. I don't, and I'm sure that it does with other people, but it's always been something that I held dear, and I talked about that because that was one of the most important things that I learned out of college, and it is one of the most important things that helped me survive on September 11, because it is all about paying attention to the details and really learning what you can about whatever you need to learn, and making sure that you you have all the information, and you get all the information that you can   Chris Miller ** 14:34 absolutely and in the emergency space, it's it's learning from what's happened and right, even Though many of the emergencies that we deal with, sadly, people die or get badly injured or significant harm to their lives, lifestyle and economy and so on, I often think that the return for them is that we learn to do better next. Time that we capture the lessons and we take them from just lessons identified to lessons learned, where we make real, significant changes about how we do things. And you've spoken often about 911 and of course, in Australia, we've been more than passingly interested in what the hell happened there. Yeah, in terms of emergency management too, because, as I understand it, you had 20, 479, months of fire fighting in the tunnels. And of course, we've thought a lot about that. In Australia, we have multi story buildings in some of our major cities. What if some unpleasant people decided to bring some of them down? They would be on top of some of our important infrastructure, such as Metro tunnels and so on. Could we manage to do 20, 479, months of fire fighting, and how would that work? Do we have the resources? How could we deploy people to make that possible? So even when it isn't in your own country, you're learning from other people, from agencies, to prepare your country and your situation in a state of readiness. Should something unpleasant   Michael Hingson ** 16:16 happen? I wonder, speaking of tunnels, that's just popped into my head. So I'll ask it. I wonder about, you know, we have this war in the Middle East, the Israeli Hamas war. What have we learned about or from all of the tunnels that Hamas has dug in in Gaza and so on? What? What does all that teach us regarding emergency preparedness and so on, or does it   Chris Miller ** 16:46 presently teaches us a lot about military preparedness. And you know, your your enemy suddenly, suddenly popping up out of the out of the under underground to take you on, as they've been doing with the idea as I understand it,   Michael Hingson ** 17:03 yeah. But also,   Chris Miller ** 17:06 you know, simplistic solutions, like some people said, Well, why don't you just flood the tunnels and that'll deal with them. Except the small problem is, if you did that, you would actually make the land unlivable for many years because of salination. So it just raises the questions that there are no simple solutions to these challenging problems in defense and emergency management. And back to your point about detail, you need to think about all your options very carefully. And one of the things that I often do with senior people is beware of one track thinking. There is no one solution to any number of emergencies. You should be thinking as broadly as possible and bringing bringing in the pluses and minuses of each of those solutions before you make fairly drastic choices that could have long term consequences, you know, like the example of the possible flooding of the tunnel, sounds like a simple idea and has some appeal, but there's lots of downsides to   Michael Hingson ** 18:10 much less, the fact that there might very well be people down there that you don't want to see, perishes,   Chris Miller ** 18:20 yeah, return to their families. I'm sure they'd like that. And there may be other people, I understand that they've been running medical facilities and doing all sorts of clever things in the tunnel. And those people are not combatants. They're actually trying to help you, right?   Michael Hingson ** 18:37 Yeah, so it is one of those things that really points out that no solutions are necessarily easy at all, and we need to think pretty carefully about what we do, because otherwise there could be a lot of serious problems. And you're right   Chris Miller ** 18:55 exactly, and there's a lot of hard choices and often made hastily in emergency management, and this is one of the reasons why I've been a big defender of the recovery elements being involved in emergency management. You need to recovery people in the response activities too, because sometimes some of the choices you make in response might seem wonderful at the time, but are absolutely devastating in the recovery space, right?   Michael Hingson ** 19:25 Do you find that when you're in an emergency situation that you are afraid, or are you not afraid? Or have you just learned to control fear, and I don't mean just in a in a negative way, but have you learned to control sphere so that you use it as a tool, as opposed to it just overwhelming you.   Chris Miller ** 19:49 Yeah, sometimes the fee sort of kicks in afterwards, because often in the actual heat of the moment, you're so focused on on dealing with the problem. Problem that you really don't have time to be scared about it. Just have to deal with it and get on to next problem, because they're usually coming at you in a in a pretty tsunami like why? If it's a major incident, you've got a lot happening very quickly, and decisions need to be made quickly and often with less of the facts and you'd like to have at your fingertips to make some fairly life changing decisions for some people. But I would think what in quite tricky,   Michael Hingson ** 20:33 yeah, but I would think what that means is that you learn to control fear and not let it overwhelm you, but you learn that, yeah, it's there, but you use it to aid you, and you use it to help move you to make the decisions as best you can, as opposed to not being able to make decisions because you're too fearful,   Chris Miller ** 21:00 right? And decision paralysis can be a real issue. I remember undertaking an exercise some years back where a quite senior person called me into his office when it was over, was just tabletop, and he said, I'm not it. And I went. He said, I'm not really a crisis manager. I'm good in a business as usual situation where I have all the facts before me, and usually my staff have had weeks, months to prepare a detailed brief, provide me with options and recommendations I make a sensible decision, so I'm not really good on the fly. This is not me and and that's what we've been exercising. Was a senior team making decisions rather quickly, and he was mature enough person to realize that that wasn't really his skill set,   Michael Hingson ** 21:55 his skill set, but he said,   Chris Miller ** 21:59 he said, but I've got a solution. Oh, good, my head of property. Now, in many of the businesses I've worked with, the head of property, it HR, work, health and safety, security, all sorts of things go wrong in their day. You know, they can, they can come to the office and they think they're going to do, you know, this my to do list, and then all of a sudden, some new problem appears that they must deal with immediately. So they're often really good at dealing with whatever the hell today's crisis is. Now, it may not be enough to activate business continuity plan, but it's what I call elasticity of your business as usual. So you think you're going to be doing X, but you're doing x plus y, because something's happened, right? And you just reach out and deal with it. And those people do that almost on a daily basis, particularly if it's a large business. For instance, I worked with one business that had 155 locations in Australia? Well, chances are something will go wrong in one of those 155 locations in any given day. So the property manager will be really good at dealing, reaching out and dealing with whatever that problem is. So this, this senior colleague said, Look, you should make my property manager the chair of this group, and I will hand over delegations and be available, you know, for advice. But he should leave it because he's very good on the fly. He does that every day. He's very well trained in it by virtue of his business as usual, elasticity, smart move. And   Michael Hingson ** 23:45 it worked out,   Chris Miller ** 23:47 yes, yeah, we exercised subsequently. And it did work because he started off by explaining to his colleagues his position, that the head of property would step up to the plate and take over some more senior responsibilities during a significant emergency.   Michael Hingson ** 24:06 Okay, so how long were you with the police, and what did you do after that?   Chris Miller ** 24:17 With the police at nearly 17 years in Queensland, I had a period of operational work in traffic. I came from family of motorcycle and car racing type people, so yeah, it was a bit amusing that I should find my way there. And it actually worked out while I was studying too, because I had a bit of flexibility in terms of my shift rostery. And then when I started my masters, excuse me, my first masters, I sort of got too educated, so I had to be taken off operational policing and put the commissioner office. Hmm.   Michael Hingson ** 25:01 And what did you do there the commissioner's office?   Chris Miller ** 25:05 Yes. So I was much more involved in strategic planning and corporate planning and a whole lot of other moves which made the transition from policing actually quite easy, because I'd been much more involved in the corporate stuff rather than the operational stuff, and it was a hard transition. I remember when I first came out of operational policing into the commissioner's office. God, this is so dull.   Michael Hingson ** 25:32 Yeah, sitting behind a desk. It's not the same,   Chris Miller ** 25:37 not the same at all. But when I moved from policing into more traditional public service roles. I had the sort of requisite corporate skills because of those couple of years in the commission itself.   Michael Hingson ** 25:51 So when you Well, what caused you to leave the police and where did you go?   Chris Miller ** 25:59 Well, interestingly, when I joined, I was planning to leave. I sort of had three goals. One was get a degree leave at 30 some other thing, I left at 32 and I was head hunted to become the first female Workplace Health and Safety Inspector in Queensland, and at the time, my first and now late husband was very unwell, and I was working enormous hours, and I was offered a job with shorter hours and more money and a great opportunity. So I took it,   Michael Hingson ** 26:36 which gave you a little bit more time with family and him, exactly. So that was, was that in an emergency management related field,   Chris Miller ** 26:48 workplace health and safety, it can be emergencies, yeah? Well, hopefully not, yeah, because in the Workplace Health and Safety space, we would like people to prepare so there aren't emergency right? Well, from time to time, there are and and so I came in, what happened was we had a new act in Queensland, New Work, Health and Safety Act prior to the new Act, the police, fire and other emergency service personnel were statutory excluded from work health and safety provisions under the law in Queensland, the logic being their job was too dangerous. How on earth could you make it safe? And then we had a new government came in that wanted to include police and emergency services somehow or other. And I sort of became, by default, the Work Health and Safety Advisor for the Queensland Police at the time. There was no such position then, but somebody had to do it, and I was in the commissioner's office and showed a bit of interest that you can do that.   Michael Hingson ** 28:01 It's in the training,   Chris Miller ** 28:03 hmm, and, and I remember a particularly pivotal meeting where I had to be face the Deputy Commissioner about whether police would be in or out of that legislation, because they had to advise the government whether it's actually possible to to include police.   Michael Hingson ** 28:28 So what did you advise?   Chris Miller ** 28:31 Well, I gave him the pluses and minuses because whatever we decided it was going to be expensive, yeah, if we said no, politically, it was bad news, because we had a government that wanted us to say yes, and if we said yes, it was going to cost a lot of money make it happen.   Michael Hingson ** 28:49 What finally happened? Yes one, yes one, well, yeah, the government got its way. Do you think that made sense to do that was Yes, right.   Chris Miller ** 29:03 It always was. It always was right, because it was just nonsense that   Michael Hingson ** 29:11 police aren't included   Chris Miller ** 29:14 to exclude, because not every function of policing is naturally hazardous, some of it is quite right going forward and can be made safe, right, and even the more hazardous functions, such as dealing with armed offenders, it can be made safer. There are ways of protecting your police or increasing their bulletproof attire and various other pieces of training and procedures soon even possible.   Michael Hingson ** 29:51 But also part of that is that by training police and bringing them into it, you make them more. Which also has to be a positive in the whole process,   Chris Miller ** 30:05 absolutely, and I did quite a lot of work with our some people used to call them the black pajamas. They were our top of the range people that would deal with the most unpleasant customers. And they would train with our military in Australia, our counter terrorism people are trained with the military. The police and military train together because that expands our force capability. If something really disagreeable happens, so   Michael Hingson ** 30:42 it's got to start somewhere. So when, so all this wasn't necessarily directly related to emergency management, although you did a lot to prepare. When did you actually go into emergency management as a field?   Chris Miller ** 31:01 Oh, well. So I was involved in response when I was talking about rescue, search and rescue, and then increasingly, I became involved in exercising and planning, writing, procedures, training, all that, getting ready stuff, and then a lot more work in terms of debriefing, so observing the crisis centers and seeing if there could be some fine tuning even during the event, but also debriefing. So what did we actually learn? What do we do? Well, what might be do better next time? Well, there's some insights that the people that were most involved might have picked up as a result of this latest incident, whatever that might have been.   Michael Hingson ** 31:58 And so when you so where did you end up, where you actually were formally in the emergency management field?   Chris Miller ** 32:07 Well, emergency management is quite a broad field. Yeah, it's preparedness right through to response and recovery and everything in between. And so I've had involvement in all of that over the years. So from preparing with training and exercising right through to it's happening. You're hanging off the helicopter skids and so on.   Michael Hingson ** 32:34 So did you do this? Working   Chris Miller ** 32:36 it come back from you with a bit of a call. Oh, sorry. When through to response and recovery. You know, how are we going to respond? What are our options? What are our assets through to recovery, which is usually a long tail. So for instance, if it's a flood of fire or zone, it'll take a very long time to recover. You know, 911 you didn't rebuild towers and and rebuild that area quickly. It took years to put things back together again. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:11 the only thing about it is One can only hope that was we put things back together, and as we move forward, we also remember the lessons that we should learn from what happened in the past, absolutely, and I'm not sure that that always happens   Chris Miller ** 33:31 true, and that's why I often get a bit annoyed when I hear particularly politicians talk about lessons learned very hastily after The event. You know they say we will learn the lessons from this or that. No, don't you think? Because for those of us involved in the debriefing and lessons management space, we know that that you have observations, insights, lessons identified, but they're not learned, usually, until some considerable period thereafter when you make the necessary changes to training procedures, whatever it might be, so that those those learnings are embedded in the way forward.   Michael Hingson ** 34:18 Yeah, and not everybody learns the lessons who should learn the lessons, and they don't always listen to the people who really do understand. But you can only do what you can do as well. Well,   Chris Miller ** 34:34 we're trying to structure more of that with lessons management so that it's a lot less hit and miss. I mean, when I first came into emergency management, it was much more, much more, a sort of learning on the job, sometimes learning bad habits from people, and then gradually, hopefully and. Setting aside the bad habits and getting into the good habits. Now you can do a masters and PhDs in disaster management, thank goodness, so that we become much more sophisticated in terms of our evidence base and our research and our understanding. And as I said, this crossover so we learned a lot from what happened with 911 that might be applicable here in Australia, should something unpleasant in their larger cities happen too? So we learn from each other. It isn't a static environment, it's very much a fluid environment, and one that's moving forward. I'm happy to report.   Michael Hingson ** 35:40 Well, that's important that it moves forward and that we learn from what has happened now, of course, we have all sorts of things going on over here with air traffic controllers and losing communications and all sorts of other things that once again, causes people to need to learn how to very quickly react and make strong decisions and not panic with what's going on. I heard on the news this morning about somebody who saw two aircraft that were about to collide, and he was able to get them to divert so that they didn't hit each other, but radar hadn't detected it. So, you know, they're just the people are very resilient when they when they learn and understand what they need to do.   Chris Miller ** 36:34 And I've had the honor of working with air traffic controllers and doing some exercises with them. They're actually amazing people for a number of reasons. One is the stress levels of their job is just beyond belief. But two is they actually have to think in 3d so they've got their radar screens, which are 2d and they actually have to think in 3d which is a really rare and amazing skill. It's like a great sculptor. Yeah, in Europe, I've seen some wonderful sculpture, they actually have to think in 3d in terms of the positioning of their aircraft and how to deal with them. It's a it's a great set of skills, so never to be underestimated. And of course, it raises the question of aging infrastructure and an aging workforce too, something that in a lot of countries, yours and mine, it seems that we've been quite neglectful about legacy systems that we have not upgraded, and about the aging workforce that we have not invested enough effort in terms of bringing new people into the system so that, as our our long time warriors want to retire, and they're entitled to that can leave and Knowing that there will be more useful replacements.   Michael Hingson ** 38:04 I flew last week, and actually for one of my flights, sat next to an air traffic controller who was going to a meeting, which was fascinating. And same point was made that a lot of the infrastructure is anywhere from 25 to 50 years old, and it shouldn't be. It's so amazing that I would, I guess I would say our politicians, even though they've been warned so many times, won't really deal with upgrading the equipment. And I think enough is starting to happen. Maybe they will have to do it because too much is failing, but we'll see and to   Chris Miller ** 38:42 worry when people are doing things that are so important hastily. And interestingly, when I was exercising Sydney air traffic controllers, I usually got a glimpse of a new high tech solution that they were in the process of testing, which was going to put more cameras and more capability around the airfield than they'd ever had before, even though they're sitting in an $80 million tower that would be built for them with Australian tax dollars, but trying to get the system even more sophisticated, more responsive, because the flight levels coming in and out of Sydney continue to grow. 90% of Australians air traffic goes in and out of Sydney at some point in the day, yeah. So they're very busy there, and how can we provide systems that will support the capacity to do better for us and continue to maintain our sales flows?   Michael Hingson ** 39:50 So we met kind of through the whole issue of the business continuity Institute conference last year. What's the difference between emergency. Management and business continuity management   Chris Miller ** 40:03 interesting when I came out of emergency management, so things like the Bali bombings, the Indian Ocean tsunami and so on and so on. A deputy in the Department of Social Security where I used to work, said, oh, we need a business continuity manager. And I said, What's that? Yeah, excuse me, Hey, what's that? Well, I quickly learned it's basically a matter of scale. So I used to be in the business in emergencies, of focusing on the country, united, counter terrorism, all the significant parts of the country, blood, fire and so on, to one business at a time. So the basics of business, of emergency management, come across very neatly to business continuity. You're still preparing and responding and recovering, just on a smaller scale,   Michael Hingson ** 41:08 because you're dealing with a particular business at a time true, whereas emergency management is really dealing with it across the board.   Chris Miller ** 41:19 We can be the whole country, yeah, depending on what it is that you do in the emergency management space or a significant part of the country,   Michael Hingson ** 41:29 when did you kind of transition from emergency management and emergency preparedness on a on a larger scale to the whole arena of business continuity?   Chris Miller ** 41:40 Well, I still keep a foot in both camps. Actually, I keep, I keep boomeranging between them. It depends on what my clients want. Since I'm a consultant now, I move between both spaces.   Michael Hingson ** 41:57 When did you decide to be a consultant as opposed to working for our particular organization   Chris Miller ** 42:04 or the I was a bit burnt out, so I was happy to take a voluntary redundancy from the government and in my consultancy practice   Michael Hingson ** 42:12 from there, when did that start?   Chris Miller ** 42:16 October of 10.   Michael Hingson ** 42:18 October of 2010, yep. Okay, so you've been doing it for almost 15 years, 14 and a half years. Do you like consulting?   Chris Miller ** 42:29 Yeah, I do, because I get to work program people who actually want to have me on board. Sometimes when you work as a public servant in these faces. Yeah, you're not seen as an asset. You're a bit of an annoyance. When people are paying you as a consultant, they actually want you to be there,   Michael Hingson ** 42:55 yeah? Which? Which counts for something, because then you know that you're, you're going to be more valued, or at least that's the hope that you'll be more valued, because they really wanted to bring you in. They recognize what you what you brought to the table as it were.   Chris Miller ** 43:12 Yes, um, no, that's not to say that they always take your recommendations. Yeah. And I would learn to just, you know, provide my report and see what happens.   Michael Hingson ** 43:24 So was it an easy transition to go into the whole arena of business continuity, and then, better yet, was it an easy I gather it was probably an easy transition to go off and become a consultant rather than working as you had been before?   Chris Miller ** 43:39 Well, the hours are shorter and the pain is better.   Michael Hingson ** 43:41 There you are. That helps.   Chris Miller ** 43:48 Tell me if you would a lot more flexibility and control over my life that I didn't have when I was a full time public servant.   Michael Hingson ** 43:55 Yeah, yeah. And that that, of course, counts for a lot, and you get to exercise more of your entrepreneurial spirit, yes, but   Chris Miller ** 44:09 I think one of the things is I've often seen myself as very expensive public asset. The Australian taxpayer has missed a lot of time and effort in my training over very many years. Now they're starting to see some of the return on that investment   Michael Hingson ** 44:25 Well, and that's part of it. And the reality is, you've learned a lot that you're able to put to you, so you bring a lot of expertise to what you do, which also helps explain why you feel that it's important to earn a decent salary and or a decent consulting fee. And if you don't and people want to just talk you down and not pay you very much, that has its own set of problems, because then you wonder how much they really value what you what you bring.   Chris Miller ** 44:55 Yes. And so now i. Through the World Bank and my international consultancy work, I'm sharing some of those experiences internationally as well.   Michael Hingson ** 45:11 So you mentioned the World Bank, who are some of your clients, the people that you've worked with, the   Chris Miller ** 45:18 World Bank doesn't like you talking too much about what you do?   Michael Hingson ** 45:20 Yeah, that's, I was wondering more, what are some of the organizations you worked with, as opposed to giving away secrets of what you   Chris Miller ** 45:31 do? Well, for the wellbeing club, basically worked in the health sector in Africa and in APAC, okay, and that's involved working with Ministries of Health, you know, trying to get them in a better state of preparing this, get their plans and better shape, get them exercising those plans and all that kind of important stuff, stuff that we kind of take for granted in Our countries, in yours well, with FEMA, although, what's left of FEMA now? Yeah, but also in my own country, you know, we're planning and exercising and lessons management and all these things are just considered, you know, normal operations when you're talking to low and middle income countries. And no, that isn't normal operations. It's something that is still learning, and you have the honor to work with them and bring them into that sort of global fold about how these things are done.   Michael Hingson ** 46:35 Well, you worked in some pretty far away and and relatively poor countries and so on. I assume that was a little bit different than working in what some people might call the more developed countries. You probably had to do more educating and more awareness raising, also,   Chris Miller ** 46:55 yes and no. The African country I worked in a lot of these people had studied at Harvard and some of your better universities. But what I noticed was, as brilliant as those people were, and as well trained and educated, there weren't enough of them. And that was one of the real problems, is, is trying to expand the workforce with the necessary skills in emergency management or whatever else you might be trying to do pandemic preparedness or something. Don't have enough people on the ground in those countries that have the necessary skills and experience.   Michael Hingson ** 47:44 Were you able to help change that?   Chris Miller ** 47:48 Yeah, we set up some training programs, and hopefully some of those continue beyond our time with them.   Michael Hingson ** 47:58 So again, it is some awareness raising and getting people to buy into the concepts, which some will and some won't. I remember while at the Business Continuity Institute, one of the people said the thing about the people who attend the conference is they're the what if people, and they're always tasked with, well, what if this happens? What if that happens? But nobody listens to them until there's really an emergency, and then, of course, they're in high demand. Which, which I can understand.   Chris Miller ** 48:33 That's why you want exercises, because it raises awareness so that, so that the what if, the business continuity people are thinking that emergency managers are a bit more front of mind for some of the senior people, it's less of a surprise when something unpleasant happens. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 48:56 Well, how is the whole concept and the whole structure or theory of emergency management, changed. You've been involved in this a long time. So how has it evolved and changed over the years?   Chris Miller ** 49:10 Much more education, formal education, not learning on the job, actually going to university and learning properly, but much more evidence based, much more structured lessons management, much more technology. There's so many changes, at least to be very long.   Michael Hingson ** 49:31 Does AI come into play in emergency management? Yet,   Chris Miller ** 49:37 I think it's coming in. More and more we're using it for prediction of fire behavior and all sorts of things now,   Michael Hingson ** 49:47 yeah, and that, and that makes sense, that we're, we're starting to see where the whole technology and the whole ability to monitor so many things. Can tell us there's a fire starting or something is happening a lot more quickly than we used to be able to do it. I'm not sure that we're there yet with earthquakes, but even with earthquakes, we're getting warnings a little bit more quickly than we used to. We had an earthquake here in Southern California a couple of weeks ago, and I forget exactly, but it was a number of seconds that people had some decent warnings. So by the time it was analyzed and determined that there was going to be an earthquake, there was still time to issue a warning that alerted people, because she still had to react pretty quickly if you wanted to take advantage of it. But I think that we're only going to see more and more technological changes that will help the process be better,   Chris Miller ** 50:55 absolutely. And one of the big problems that we're having is a lot of our previous sort of fire mapping, fire behavior, flood mapping is out of date very quickly, because of development and climate change and all sorts of factors, previous behaviors are not actually a very good model, but an AI permits us to do things faster.   Michael Hingson ** 51:24 Yeah, we're going to have to just continue, certainly to encourage it. And again, it's one of those areas where the reality is all of the skills that we and tools that we can bring to the to the process are absolutely appropriate to do, because otherwise we just either take a step backward or we don't progress at all   Chris Miller ** 51:49 well. And to give you another example, um, Life Savers, New South Wales lifesavers. Here, I run the largest grain fleet in the country now for a long time, life saving used to be sort of volunteers, and in pretty old tech, not anymore, oh boy. And they're even looking at things like deploying life saving devices off their drones as they get bigger and smarter and heavier lifting to be able to drop things to people in distress. We're using it for shark netting, whereas we used to take a boat out and check the shark nets, now we can send the drones out, and then if you need to send the boat out, you're not wasting a lot of money chugging up and down in your boat. So there's all sorts of savings and adjustments in this space, in technology with AI and all sorts of other fancy devices like drones,   Michael Hingson ** 52:54 how about emergency management and so on, in terms of dealing with different kinds of people, like people with disabilities, people who are blind or deaf or hard of hearing, maybe heavy people, people who are in the autism spectrum and so on has emerged. Have emergency managers gotten better at dealing with different kinds of disabilities? How much real awareness raising and understanding has gone into all of that   Chris Miller ** 53:26 well. Towards the end of last year, there was a big package of work done by EMA Emergency Management Australia, being conducted in conjunction with AD the Australian Institute of disaster resiliency, and that's in the disability space and the whole lot of that's rolling out in workshops all over the country to try and do even better. Yes, it's still a weakness, I would have to agree, and we still need to do a whole lot better in that whole space of some of those vulnerable groups that you mentioned, and hopefully some of this important initiative that's sponsored by the government and will help raise awareness and improve response activities in the future.   Michael Hingson ** 54:15 I would also point out, and it's, of course, all about training to a degree, because, you know, people say, well, blind people can't do this, for example, or they can't do that. And the reality is, blind people can, if they're trained, if they gain self confidence, if they're given and put it in an environment where they're able to be given confidence to do things. The reality is, blindness isn't the challenge that most sighted people would believe it to be, but at the same time, I think that one of the biggest things, and I saw it on September 11, one of the biggest things, is information, or lack of information. I asked several times what was going on, and no one who clearly had to know. Who would say what was occurring. And I understand some of that because they they didn't know whether I would just panic because they said airplanes had deliberately been crashed into the towers or not. But also, I know that there was also a part of it, which was, when you're blind, you can't deal with any of that. We're not going to tell you, we don't have time to tell you. Information, to me, is the most important thing that you can provide, but I but I do appreciate there. There are two sides to it, but it is also important to recognize that, with a lot of people who happen to have different kinds of disabilities, providing information may very well be an enhancement to their circumstances, because they can make decisions and do things that they might not otherwise have been able to do. Well,   Chris Miller ** 55:50 it was certainly the case for you, because you had information and you had preparedness before 911 right? You were able to respond in more effective ways because you knew what was what. And we certainly saw that in covid, for instance, even things like translating information into different languages. In Australia, we have people from, I think the last census, 170 countries, they don't all speak English as their first language. And having worked with Aboriginal people for eight years, quite specifically, one of my dear friends, English was her sixth language.   Michael Hingson ** 56:32 But at the same time,   Chris Miller ** 56:33 go ahead, yeah, and yet we keep putting information out in all that well, no, we need to do much better in the language phase, in the preparedness space of people with all sorts of challenges. We need to reach out to those people so that as you were prepared for 911 and you knew where the fire escapes were, and this and that really paid benefits on the day that we've done that, that we've taken reasonable steps to prepare everyone in the community, not just the English speakers or the this or that, right? All people get the chance to understand their situation and prepare apparently,   Michael Hingson ** 57:22 I know that if I had had more information about what had occurred, I may very well have decided to travel a different way to leave or after leaving the tower and the building. I might have gone a different way, rather than essentially walking very much toward tower two and being very close to it when it collapsed. But I didn't have that information because they wouldn't provide that. So not helpful. Yeah, so things, things do happen. So I'm sure that along the way you've had funny experiences in terms of dealing with emergencies and emergency management. What's the funniest kind of thing that you ever ran into? I'll   Chris Miller ** 58:08 come back to the old packers, but just quickly, that whole crisis communication space is also a big development in emergency management. Yeah, a long time we kind of kept the information to ourselves, but we realize that knowledge is power. We need to get it out there to people. So we do a lot more with alerts on the phones and all sorts of clever things now, right? Funny things? Well, there's so many of those, which one probably most recently is the dreaded alpacas where I live now, as you see, well, as some people who might see the video of this, I live by the beach, which is pretty common for a lot of Australians. Anyway, we have had fires up in in a nice valley called kangaroo Valley. Then a lot of people that live there are sort of small farmlets. There are some dairy farms and people that are more scale farmers, but other people just have a small plot, excuse me, maybe a couple of horses or something or other. And and then when we had fires up there a few years back, we set up emergency evacuation centers for them, and we set them up for dogs and cats and small animals, and we had facility for horses at the nearby race grounds and so on. But we weren't expecting our hackers and alpacas are actually quite big, and they spit and do other things quite under manage. So I remember we rang up the race course manager and we said, we've got alpacas. What you got? What I. I said, Well, they're sort of about the size of a horse. He said, Yes, yes, but we know what to do with horses. We know what the hell to do without Yes. Anyway, eventually we moved the alpacas to horse stables and kept them away from the horses because we weren't sure how to do and interact. Yeah. And the owner of these alpacas was so attached to her animals that she she insisted on sleeping in her Carney her alpacas. And some people are very attached to their animals, even if they're a little on the large side. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:37 Well, I know during the fires that we had here in Southern California back in January, there were a number of people who had horses and were very concerned about evacuating them, and, of course, other animals as well. But the horses especially were were dealt with, and they had emergency well, they had places to take them if they could get the horses out. I don't know whether we lost horses or how many we lost during all the big fires, but yeah,   Chris Miller ** 1:01:10 I'm serious far as new Canberra, which is my city of residence for many years, and what happened? I decision. What happened was, quite often, the men were all fighting the fires, and the women were left with with smoke affected horses. Oh, and they were trying to get them onto the horse flight. Now, as we quickly discovered, horses are pretty smart, and they're not keen on being near fires. They don't want to be there, right? So they become quite a challenge to me. And to put a horse float onto your vehicle is no easy thing when you've never done it before and you're trying to do it in a crisis. So when all that was over, one of the lessons that we did learn was we arranged to have a sort of open day at the near, nearby race course. We've actually taught people to put the trailer on the back of the vehicle, to deal with a fractious horse, to sort of cover its face or protect it from the smoke and do all sorts of helpful things. So sometimes, when we get it wrong, we do learn and make some important improvements like it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:32 What's the kind of most important advice you would give to somebody who's new in emergency management or interested in going into the field   Chris Miller ** 1:02:42 and sign up for a good course, do a bachelor or master's degree in emergency management, because not only will you learn from your instructors, you'll learn from your colleagues, and this is a networking business,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:56 yeah. Well, I want to Oh, have you? I haven't asked you. Have you written any books? No, you haven't okay? Because if you had, I'd ask you to send me book covers so that we could put them in the show notes. Well, there's something for you to look at in the near future. You could learn to be an author and add that to your skill repertoire. I want to thank you for being Yeah. Well, there is always that right, too many emergencies to manage. Well, Chris, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and being with us today. I hope that this has been helpful and interesting and educational. I found it so I'd love to hear your thoughts, and I'm sure Chris would as well. Chris, how can people maybe reach out to you if they'd like to do. So,   Chris Miller ** 1:03:42 yeah, sure. LinkedIn is a good way to find me, and I've given you all those details. So   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:49 go ahead and say your LinkedIn name anyway.   Chris Miller ** 1:03:53 Good question. Yeah, it's before cross. This is my business   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:58 name before being the number four crisis. That's it.   Chris Miller ** 1:04:03 My LinkedIn name is,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:08 says before   Chris Miller ** 1:04:09 process, yeah, and your email is going to be full process on LinkedIn.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:16 Chris Miller at before before crisis, and email is number four process. And in email, it's before, no, it's, it's Chris Miller, before crisis, again, isn't   Chris Miller ** 1:04:30 it? It's Chris at default process, Chris at before crisis.com.au,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:35 yeah, okay, memorizing the   Chris Miller ** 1:04:41 reason why it's led to be number four crisis right is I like to see my clients before the crisis, right, and I know they'll be more motivated after the crisis.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:53 Well, I hope that you'll reach out to Chris and find her on LinkedIn, and all the information is in the show notes. She is right. But. Always like to get people to say it, if they can. I'd love to hear from you. Feel free to email me at Michael H I M, I C H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S i b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, w, w, w, dot Michael hingson, that's m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s o n.com/podcast, podcast singular that is, wherever you're listening or watching, please give us a five star rating. We really value your ratings and your reviews and input. We appreciate it, and for all of you and Chris you as well, if you know of anyone who ought to be a guest, or you think should be a guest on unstoppable mindset, we're always looking for more people to talk with and have conversations with, so please introduce us. We're always excited to get that kind of thing from you as well. So once again, Chris, I just want to thank you for being here. This has been fun today.   Chris Miller ** 1:05:54 Thank you, Michael. It was fun to meet   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:02 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. 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As global change escalates, we are already starting to experience damaging tipping points in the social, ecological and climate systems that we depend upon - and much worse is to come. These shocks tell us we have left it too late for incremental change to save us: we need to change course fast to avoid the worst, yet we are acting far too slowly. Our supposed leaders appear paralysed by the complexity of the situation or, worse still, determined to maintain the status quo. This is leading to increasing despair, especially among young people. At the same time, hopeful signs of change are also growing fast. The climate movement, the spread of electric vehicles, and the rise of renewable energy are all examples of change accelerating in the right direction. They have all passed tipping points where their uptake becomes self-propelling, taking the status quo by surprise - and they are spreading worldwide. To get ourselves out of trouble in time, we need more of these positive tipping points towards global sustainability, which eliminate greenhouse gas emissions, reverse the destruction of nature, and promote social justice. Positive Tipping Points: How to Fix the Climate Crisis (Oxford UP, 2025) identifies the positive tipping points that can help us avoid the worst from damaging tipping points. It takes the reader on a journey through understanding how tipping points happen, showing how tipping points have transformed human societies in the past, and facing up to the profound risks that climate tipping points pose to us all now. Then, it offers hope and empowerment in a series of uplifting examples of social and technological changes that started small but are already spreading rapidly to transform our societies to a more sustainable state. It identifies the positive tipping points that are still needed, the forces that are opposing them, and the actions that can trigger them, showing how we can all play a part in triggering positive tipping points that accelerate us out of the climate crisis. Professor Tim Lenton OBE is Chair in Climate Change and Earth System Science at the University of Exeter, where he founded the Global Systems Institute. His research focuses on understanding how life has transformed the Earth system over the past 4 billion years, and how humans are transforming it now. He uses computer models to simulate the climate and biogeochemical cycles. Tim is renowned for his work in identifying climate tipping points, which informed the setting of the 'well below 2°C' climate target. He is passionate about the opportunities for positive tipping points in human activities to accelerate action towards global sustainability. Daniel Moran's writing about literature and film can be found on Pages and Frames. He earned his B.A. and M.A. in English from Rutgers University and his Ph.D. in History from Drew University. The author of Creating Flannery O'Connor: Her Critics, Her Publishers, Her Readers, he teaches research and writing and co-hosts the long-running podcast Fifteen-Minute Film Fanatics, found here on the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Agatha Christie is a global bestseller. Her work has been translated into over 100 languages and adapted for stage and screen. Christie's writing life ran from 1920 to the 1970s, and she didn't just write puzzles, she wrote plays, supernatural stories, thrillers, satires, and domestic noir. She also commented obliquely but perceptively on the social and cultural changes of a troubled century. Christie's work tells the story of a changing Britain, but perhaps her greatest achievement is not to be limited by that national context. Her stories achieve the rare feat of appearing both universal and specific and can seemingly be adapted for almost any context. Agatha Christie: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford UP, 2025) investigates why the novels of a middle-class, middlebrow Englishwoman were so successful, and why they continue to appeal to such a broad range of readers. Chapters explore the context of Christie's writing, and the clue-puzzle detective fiction structure at which she excelled, but they also question the familiar assumptions that surround her and what we think we know about her work. Gill Plain examines Christie's capacity to register the zeitgeist, and considers how her novels reveal anxieties surrounding gender roles, the family, war, justice, ethics, and nation. Her fascination with hypocrisy, power, abuse, deceit, and despair continues to resonate with readers - and screenwriters - who respond to her light touch and dark imagination to repurpose her stories with the fears and desires most appropriate to their time. Gill Plain is Professor of English at the University of St Andrews. Alongside a lifelong preoccupation with crime fiction, she has research interests in British literature, cinema, and culture of the mid-twentieth century, war writing, feminist theory and gender studies. She is the author of Women's Fiction of the Second World War (1996); Twentieth-Century Crime Fiction: Gender, Sexuality and the Body (2001); and Literature of the 1940s: War, Postwar and 'Peace' (2013). Daniel Moran's writing about literature and film can be found on Pages and Frames. He earned his B.A. and M.A. in English from Rutgers University and his Ph.D. in History from Drew University. The author of Creating Flannery O'Connor: Her Critics, Her Publishers, Her Readers, he teaches research and writing and co-hosts the long-running podcast Fifteen-Minute Film Fanatics, found here on the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Agatha Christie is a global bestseller. Her work has been translated into over 100 languages and adapted for stage and screen. Christie's writing life ran from 1920 to the 1970s, and she didn't just write puzzles, she wrote plays, supernatural stories, thrillers, satires, and domestic noir. She also commented obliquely but perceptively on the social and cultural changes of a troubled century. Christie's work tells the story of a changing Britain, but perhaps her greatest achievement is not to be limited by that national context. Her stories achieve the rare feat of appearing both universal and specific and can seemingly be adapted for almost any context. Agatha Christie: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford UP, 2025) investigates why the novels of a middle-class, middlebrow Englishwoman were so successful, and why they continue to appeal to such a broad range of readers. Chapters explore the context of Christie's writing, and the clue-puzzle detective fiction structure at which she excelled, but they also question the familiar assumptions that surround her and what we think we know about her work. Gill Plain examines Christie's capacity to register the zeitgeist, and considers how her novels reveal anxieties surrounding gender roles, the family, war, justice, ethics, and nation. Her fascination with hypocrisy, power, abuse, deceit, and despair continues to resonate with readers - and screenwriters - who respond to her light touch and dark imagination to repurpose her stories with the fears and desires most appropriate to their time. Gill Plain is Professor of English at the University of St Andrews. Alongside a lifelong preoccupation with crime fiction, she has research interests in British literature, cinema, and culture of the mid-twentieth century, war writing, feminist theory and gender studies. She is the author of Women's Fiction of the Second World War (1996); Twentieth-Century Crime Fiction: Gender, Sexuality and the Body (2001); and Literature of the 1940s: War, Postwar and 'Peace' (2013). Daniel Moran's writing about literature and film can be found on Pages and Frames. He earned his B.A. and M.A. in English from Rutgers University and his Ph.D. in History from Drew University. The author of Creating Flannery O'Connor: Her Critics, Her Publishers, Her Readers, he teaches research and writing and co-hosts the long-running podcast Fifteen-Minute Film Fanatics, found here on the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies