Podcasts about puft

You need the right shoes to bust ghosts in and Gremlins will stay away from CGI. Find out what's up in the #MikeJonesMinuteCon!

This is it, folks. In the action-packed SEASON FINALE of the Kast, we are discussing the very last song on KC's final album. It's a track called "Puft Up," and in addition to some wild and drugged-out rhymes, it features none other than DJ Ray on the cuts.  Join us as we reflect on what (SPOILER ALERT) may be our most successful all-around track. We'll also talk about how rapping is like caulking a bathtub... the time Proxy went to an acoustic Everclear concert and was very disappointed... and much more. One last time... join us? Follow us on Twitter: @KastingCuzzins / @KeefHerbin Follow Chris on TikTok: @wontkeefdoit

You've researched how to ride a horse, maybe how to shoot a bow or what that fiddly bit on a sword hilt is really called, but have you considered how combatants actually FIGHT? Or how long it takes a bruise to heal... and what exactly is the impact of adrenaline post fight? Join Autumn and special guest Carla Hoch from FightWrite as they tease apart what so many authors get wrong about fight scenes, how to write a great fight scene, what Wonder Woman got wrong, and why dragon smoke is actually white (not black!). Visit FightWrite at www.fightwrite.net and follow Carla on Instagram at www.instagram.com/carla.c.hoch/. Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday.   SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review.   Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going.  Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (2s): You're listening to the Am Writing Fantasy podcast in today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now on to the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Autumm (30s): Hello, I'm Autumn. And this is episode 144 of the am writing fantasy podcast. And today Jesper is on break. And instead I have a very special guest with us. So Carla, who is the host of the FightWrite Podcast. Plus you have a website and classes and so much more. So I want you to introduce yourself, Carla (55s): Okay. I am Carla Hoke and I am the purveyor, I guess that's the word for the fight? Yeah, the fight right brand. I have the website fight, right? If I G H T w R I T e.net, and it's kind of a one-stop shop for everything that has to do with fight, right? Which helps writers write fight scenes action, and violence. And I have a book with writer's digest and it is fight right. How to write believable fight scene. And I have class with a writer's digest university. That's always in their library and hopefully we'll have more in the fall. Oh, I guess it is fall. We'll have, Autumm (1m 35s): That's fantastic. This year, Carla (1m 36s): I'm telling you this year has been slow and fast at the same time. It's either in park or it's in full speed ahead, right? Exactly. Autumm (1m 47s): Yeah. And in some ways, days can be, have elements of both. And so I'm not sure where we are. Carla (1m 55s): Yeah. Well, you know, they say that the days are long, but the years are short. Oh, Autumm (2m 1s): It's very, very true. Well, that is awesome. I remember, I think your website has actually won something for reader writer's digest too. Like best law Carla (2m 12s): It has. So it has it's it's in there top 100 websites for writers and they have different categories. And I think mine was in the category of writers helps writers. So three years and I have won a brand award to twice with can Christian authors network. Autumm (2m 35s): That's so brilliant installations. Yeah, that is fantastic. And so I do want to give a shout out because it was actually the secret of how we met is a joint listener. Stephen recommended that I see if you wanted to come on the am writing fantasy podcast because he thought we would just be cool. It's like dream diner duo. Oh yeah. Big shout out to Steven as a thank you for introducing us and making this podcast happen. Carla (3m 6s): And what's his last name? Autumm (3m 7s): Guglich. Carla (3m 10s): Okay. Autumm (3m 12s): All right. Well, I, you have quite the background in fighting yourself. So I Think that is really interesting. So this came about because you're also a writer end of fighter. Carla (3m 27s): Yeah. It, well, it came about because I was a writer and this is a classic case of the days being long, but the years being short, because it seems like I just kind of started, but it's, it's been like 10 years, 10 years since I started martial arts. I can't believe that, but it all started because I was writing a work that had fight scenes in it and I didn't know how to fight. And so I, my kids, I had my kids in TaeKwonDo. I think they were in like first grade and yeah, kindergarten, first grade. And there was a self-defense class that was at the TaeKwonDo studio. And I went to a couple of classes. I thought, you know, how much really do I need to know one or two classes, surely I'll know everything I need to know to write fight scenes. Carla (4m 12s): And I got in there and I kind of loved it. And it just, it just kinda snowballed from there. And the strange thing is I was asked in a podcast one time, and this was the hardest question I've ever been asked. He was like, what's the weirdest thing that's ever happened to you? And I'm like, where do, where do I even start with that? But one of the weird things, my life tends to backpedal. Like it's, you know, circular, like I taught at a high school that was the Raiders and then moved to a whole new city, whole, whole new state and the Raiders, you know? And it's like this person I knew. And then boom, this person I knew with the same name, coaches, exact same names. Carla (4m 53s): And I'm like, I don't, I'm not planning this, but I went to a writer's conference and I had the work with me that I started taking self-defense for the whole reason. I started wanting to know how to learn fight scene was this particular work. And I went to a writer's conference and I presented it to a man named Steve lobby, who I did not know. I had no idea who he was. It turned out he was Steve lobby of the Steve blobby agency. He was the head of a, a writer's agency. And I presented it to him and he, he didn't really, he, he didn't like it, you know, which I'm okay with that. And he said, I don't like the work. Carla (5m 33s): It's not right for me, but I do like you, so let's keep in touch. And so year after year after year, we would see each other. If you don't go to writers, conferences, writers, I highly suggest it because it's, it's the adult version of camp. You see the same people. It is, you see the same people year after year after year. And so I kept up with him and anytime we saw each other to writer's conference, we would make time to kind of sit and chat. Cause we get along really well. And when I wrote the book, I got in touch with him and I was like, you know, what would you like to read this book? He's I, of course I'd like to read it. So he read it. And he said, because he also has an imprint of small house publishing for craft books. Carla (6m 14s): And he goes, I do love this book. He goes, I don't have it in my budget right now. And I'm like, well, you know what? I, I sent it to writer's digest and he goes, you did what? I said, I sent it to writer's digest. And he started laughing and he was like, okay girl. He said, you go for it. And he goes, what he said, you know, just be patient, it'll take about six weeks for them to get back to you. And if you haven't heard from him by then, then just, you know, reach out. And I said, I'll do that. And it was not six weeks. It was six days. Oh my gosh, I know miraculous. And so I sent him a message back and I said, would you be interested in representing a writer's digest author? And he said, may be. And so the first person, I really pitched this book to the whole reason I started writing fight scenes is now my editor. Carla (7m 3s): I know my agent for a book about writing fight scenes. So circle Autumm (7m 8s): Really good kismet there. That is really Carla (7m 13s): Is, it really is writers don't give up writing honestly is just a war of attrition. It's about successful authors. Aren't necessarily the best writers. I mean, come on. We've we've all read some books. They were like, wow. I mean, I've read books. I'm like, how is this person got this book out? And I don't have this book out, but it really is. It's the difference in who, who gave up and who didn't. I was a high school teacher and a track coach for awhile. And there was a psycho psychological study done that when two runners are running side by side, after three strides, one of them will probably give up, oh. So I used to coach my runners and say three full strides and at time and time again, and I think that's how it is with writers. Carla (7m 59s): Keep the strides. Somebody is going to give up and you're going to be the one left standing. So just, just don't give up, keep pushing. Autumm (8m 7s): I love that. And I think that is so true because it's, I know I've read recently that it's 10 years and 1 million words before you can really start seeing your career take off. Carla (8m 17s): And Autumm (8m 19s): That's a long time I would lose a lot of authors, one or two books, and that's their feeling. They're feeling it. Then they want to see something then, but to really come into your own 10 years in your words, Carla (8m 33s): Right. And, and the average book and its lifetime in its lifetime, a published book only sells 2000 copies in its lifetime. Wow. So if you look and you think, okay, I've self published this book, or I've traditionally published this book and you know, I've only sold a hundred books this first year. Well, yeah, that's right. I worked, you know, people who are rich from writing, first of all are probably lying or, or they have, you know, a ton of books or they are just kind of, you know, this kind of lightning in a bottle kind of situation, you know, the JK Rawlings, you know, that just hit it big. Carla (9m 15s): So if, if you, you know, if you're struggling, if you're not selling as many as you think you should sell, if you're like, well, I still have my day job. Well that makes you a writer. Correct? All of those things. Autumm (9m 28s): Yeah. You might get one series of cells and you might get, you know, three years later it might die off and it might be one, one, a new one that doesn't sell it. It's also, I love Joanna Penn for that. She's very practical saying it's not a linear curve. You don't hit it big and stay up there for, you gotta work for it every day Carla (9m 45s): And write. And one of the reasons why I love what I do is because I do love fight training, and I do love writing and they, they have so much in common when you are a fighter martial arts of any kind, you're not going to walk onto the mat and immediately be a success. You have to, you have to take your lumps for a very long time. And, and it's, you feel very defeated a lot. I had a, a new white belt SAIS. I've been doing Brazilian jujitsu. I've done a wide swath of things, but the one that I just, I really am sticking with. Yeah. I have as Brazilian jujitsu, I've been doing it about seven years, including, you know, quarantine and time off it's surgery and stuff. Carla (10m 27s): And, and the kids, this white belt said, well, I just feel lost all the time. And I was like, yeah, me too. And she was like, what do you mean? You feel lost all the time. I'm like, that's just how it is. And that's one of the things I love about this art. So you really just have to keep plugging along. You have to take your lumps and not, everybody's going to give you a good review and that's okay. I call those. And some people will give you a negative review simply because they're a negative person. Don't always assume it is about your book. Especially if it's ugly, you know what some, what someone says may be based on our actions, but the way they choose to say it is about them. Carla (11m 11s): And so, yeah, you're going to have some people will give you a one-star review. You're going to have some people who are very snarky and they may be fellow writers that, you know, and that's okay. And I liken that to, you know, people who aren't your fans, you know, when I'm competing, not everybody's cheering for me. That's okay. They're not my fans. I don't expect them to cheer for me. So, you know, when you, when you do have people that are critical of you for, in an unproductive way, criticism is incredibly important. You don't get better without somebody showing you, you know, where you need to improve, but I'm productive criticism. That's not about you. Carla (11m 51s): It's not about your work. Those are just not your, that's not your team. That's not your fans. So when you write, keep your team in mind, when I compete, I'm not competing for the people who hate me and what my opponent, it to win. I'm competing for my teammates and my coach. So you just kind of have to have that, that same attitude when you write just, yeah, don't give up, don't give up. Don't take the easy way out. Autumm (12m 15s): Exactly. And it's so true. And I do know it is human nature that we for, what do they say? Like you can have 10 good reviews, but it's that one bad review out of the 10. That is the one that sticks out in your mind. It's just like, well, if you look at the numbers, you probably have more good reviews than bad. So focus on Carla (12m 34s): Differences. Yeah. Right, right. And you know what? I actually learned a lot from a review. I got on good reads. One of the reviews. I forget how many stars it was. It, I mean, it wasn't five stars. I think it was like two or three. And the lady said that I just, she told me the subjects that she wished had been in my book. Oh, that's, that's helpful. One of the things she, yeah. One of the things she asked was, but how does a person fight when they don't know how to fight? And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's a brilliant question. And so I actually reached out to her and I thanked her for her review. And I said, you know, I had never even considered that. And so I wrote a whole blog post about it. So that's brilliant reviews are all negative reviews. Carla (13m 17s): Not necessarily negative critical reviews are only bad if you don't learn something from them. But again, if they're ugly and mean-spirited, it's not about you. Autumm (13m 25s): Yeah. It's not about you don't even let it bother you and move on. Carla (13m 31s): Move on. Exactly. Autumm (13m 33s): So my big question for you, and I want to get into like tips and other things, you see authors doing wrong, but why should an author care if they're writing a fight scene correctly? Carla (13m 45s): That is a very good question. And I liken it to how a boxer reps, their hands before they fight. You know, you see boxers with these gloves on, but what people don't know is you take off those gloves and you have yards and yards of cloth. There are people who work for the fighters sometimes, personally, or they work for the event and their job is to wrap hands. It's that important. And what you do is you wrap a hand tightly and you pull all the bones together so that when contact is made, the force is distributed evenly over all the bones. If you compromise that and you break, you get what's called a boxer's break. Carla (14m 26s): And it's a break in the pinky on this very, very edge. It'll take you out of the fight. It doesn't matter how many other amazing bones you have or how great you punch that one, tiny crack compromises the whole. And so that's kinda how I see, you know, with fight scenes. If you have done your work, if you have done your research and you are proud of this, why not give your fight scene as much importance as everything else because you have to serve your story. And I was asked recently what that means. And it was like, you only put things in the work that further the work, if your fight scene is in there, there's a purpose for it. Carla (15m 6s): So, you know, make it believable, you know, don't make it absolutely corn ridiculous because when you do that or just don't do any research at all or anything like that, you're letting yourself sit open for a boxer's break. And though it's the tiniest bone and it may just be a tiny crack. It compromises the entire works ability to pack a punch pretty much. Autumm (15m 32s): And I do agree. I mean, we sit there and Google, you know, that, that lovely meme that it's like, when did you become a neurosurgeon? Do you last night? You know, we research now and it's true, but a lot of people assume they know how to fight and they assume how fighting goes. And I mean, I see this a lot because I'm a big hiker and backpacker and I go into, especially fantasy of blast. Yeah. You go into a fantasy test and like, they're not carrying a backpack. They have no food with them, but they said, I'll do fine for two weeks. And I'm like, Carla (16m 4s): Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Fighting is just like that. You know, hiking is its own language, literally its own language. There's little symbols that, you know, there's things that can know to take. They're really hard. They're really are, you know, and my daughter and I went, we learned this the hard way. We went on a short little jaunt in Colorado and I am in Houston. We are below sea level here, you know? And you get to Colorado, Colorado is super stingy with this oxygen. I don't know what the deal is, you know, Colorado share your oxygen. It's okay. And we got maybe a quarter mile in and I have a picture of my daughter leaning over, supporting herself on her thighs, just breathing. Carla (16m 46s): I was like, yeah, we probably should have gone into this whole thing differently. But it is fighting. Fighting is like a foreign language. And people like hiking people at well, I know how to walk, not a hike, you know, and people will, I've seen fighting on TV, you know, I know, I know how to throw a punch. So you know, it, it it's akin to, well, I speak English, so I guess I can teach it. No, it is. It is. It really is fighting like hiking is its own language. It really is. And so, you know, when you watch people on TV fight and it looks so easy, there's a reason for that. Carla (17m 26s): They've been practicing Autumm (17m 29s): Choreographed. I mean, there's a lot going into creating a fight scene that you're going to watch. It looks so effortless. Yeah. Carla (17m 36s): Oh yeah. And I mean, even like in professional fights you watch a professional fight and you're like, well, that's not so hard. Oh my gosh, you have no idea the work that goes into it. And you really don't until you start. And you're like, oh, okay. Knowing how to punch is only this much. It's the timing and the movement and knowing how to defend and you know, setting up different things. So it's harder than it is harder than people think it is. And yeah, I do have a lot of people come to me with fight scenes and I'm just like, or here's another thing, you know, they have a person in their work. Well, this person does such and such fighting style. I'm like, oh cool. Carla (18m 16s): How long have you done that? Oh, I've never done it. I'm like, oh, I mean, I respect the challenge, but it's like, why would you be willing to write an entire scene in Portuguese? If you didn't speak Portuguese? You know, I really don't think you would just trust Google translate. You just want somebody who actually spoke Portuguese. Yeah. Don't as a foreign language teacher, former full language, don't, don't always trust it. You know, you would want somebody who actually speaks that language to look at it and say, well, that's not really how this works. You know? So yeah. It's not, it's not as easy as it, as it looks. And if you read a fight scene, that's done very well. It didn't just flow out. Carla (18m 58s): You know, Chuck, Palahniuk the writer of fight club. He's been writing a long time and he, to this day, to this day, if I'm not mistaken, he's still in writing groups. He still has people critique his work. He still has the beta reader, you know? So the learning never ends it doesn't and the easier somebody makes it look, the more work has gone into it. Guaranteed. Autumm (19m 24s): Yeah, I can go. I can definitely go agree with that. And so what are, what do you think are some of the worst things you see or maybe the most 10 things authors tend to use that is just not true in a fight scene. So are some of the worst offenses you've seen Carla (19m 41s): The worst offenders, the greatest offenders. I also write for writer's digest blog. I do a monthly fight scene kind of blog post for them. And the one that I recently did was about writing authentic, oh, fight scenes, everybody. One of the things I see is everybody wants it to be authentic. Oh, well, that's not true. Okay. No, you don't don't want it to be authentic if we wanted everything to be exactly as it is. When we walk outside our door, there would be no fantasy. There wouldn't be no scifi. Cause we don't see those things around them. And it was Ernest Hemingway said it is a writer's job to write the truth. And that is, that is true. Carla (20m 24s): But I don't think he meant true as in factual. I think he meant true to the human condition because if you've read old man and the old man and the sea, clearly he didn't make life because you had this old man for whom the short stories name named Santiago, because fights a Marlin, a Marlin that is longer than his skiff by just holding the fishing line. Okay. Nevermind. All the things that come after that, the man is dragged for three days, he ends up fighting off sharks and I'm like, okay, that's not authentic. You know, authentic is the Marlin takes it and he grabs it and it pulls him overboard and snaps at the same time. Carla (21m 6s): So right. It is. And the true thing you want is truth to the human experience, the human condition, you know? And so I think sometimes people get so bogged down with wanting their fights seem to be authentic, that they don't serve the story. It's like, they'll make it authentic to the point to where they'll sacrifice the scene if they have to. But here's the truth of actual fights. And I'll just use fights on the street. For example, most of them are over under 30 seconds and that's a generous estimate. Okay. There is next to no banter and talking well, that's no fun. Carla (21m 47s): I know. And most of the people involved don't know how to fight violent offenders. The majority of the time they pick their target and under seven seconds. And it's not about their height, it's about the way they walk, you know? And so it's all these things that if you're going to make your fight scene completely authentic, it's may not work for the story. If Hemingway had made the old man in the sea completely authentic, Lily would have ended after the first 10 paragraphs or, you know, so what you want rather than striving for complete authenticity, just like the title of my book fight, right? How to write believable, fight scenes. Carla (22m 29s): You want it to be believable. And I don't think that betrays the art because how many times have we watched movies? And we were like, oh man, that was so real. But we know it wasn't right. We know for a fact, what we saw was not real, but we believed it in that moment. And that's the writer's job, you know? So number one, don't aim for 100% authenticity aim for believability too. Don't ride so much, honestly, writers care more, more than what kind of fight it was. What kind of work went into the sword, plane, everything, what they care about most is the impact it has on the fighters, on the story as a whole. Carla (23m 16s): That's truly what matters. And I don't edit fight scenes very often, but every now and then I do contract work for different people and, and publishers. And I worked with a lady who her fight scene. I forget one scene was I forget how many thousands of words w not thousands over a thousand. I do remember that. And I highlighted a few things and I said, you know, these are great. Everything else just kind of needs to go. And she was kind of surprised. And I said, it's not serving the story. It's really not. You have to think of it like a navigation app. You know, if you're driving and the navigation app says, here's a mailbox, here's a road. Carla (23m 59s): There's a two story house. Now here's this road. If it tells you all those things, it's going to divert your attention to your destination. You know, you can't put too much into it. And so I tell people a good rule to kind of think of is only write what you would see illustrated in a comic book or graphic novel, because real estate in those is so prime. You know, every single page of a comic book and graphic novel is major money, every single page. And so they have to make the most of it. And so what they do is they highlight the major portions of the fight. Carla (24m 40s): They leave the rest of it to the reader's imagination and our readers are smart. They can do that. And they also make it a very much sensory experience. And which leads me probably to another thing. I think people are focusing more on the actions than the impact of the actions. You really want to focus on the sensory details because that's what everybody can relate to. Not everybody can relate to being stabbed with a Katana. Thank heavens. Yes, but we can identify with searing pain. And by the way, in my book, I go over diff I've I mean, firsthand account from people who've experienced different wounds to tell you kind of the, yeah. Carla (25m 29s): Kind of the entire spectrum of different things experienced, you know, people know the blood, they know what blood looks like. They know what a scream sounds like. They can understand looking down and seeing your own blood on your hands and it freaking you out. So you really want to hit your reader, make them feel it. It's not what you say. It's how, how you make them feel. You know, you can look back at books. My judo coaches is taking some type of class and every now and then he'll say, Hey, have you read this? Have you read this? And he said something about Anton checkoff. And I don't remember what by Anton check-off I read. But I remember thinking I liked that. Carla (26m 10s): So I don't remember the words, but I remember the feeling connected to it. And Maya Angelou said people, and this is so important thing. Remember this, as you walk throughout the world, people, people will forget what you say, but they won't forget how you made them feel. And so in your fight scene, they will forget the grip. You had, you know, the caliber, caliber of bullet, what type of sword, the foot movement, but they're going to walk away and remember how they felt. And I use Chuck Palahniuk again, as another example, there's a young man at my gym who wants to write and he's really good. Carla (26m 50s): Like he has a blog. And I, I mean, this kid is like 16 in our blog. And I'm like, I'm a terrible writer. This kid is so much better writer than I am. He asked me one time, well, what, you know, what are some writers you like? And I said, you know, for a sensory experience, Chuck pollen, it hits it pretty hard. And the kid read one of his short stories and I warned him. I said, now Chuck, Paula, Nick is gritty. He's not a nice and tidy writer. And he goes, okay. And he came back and he told me, you know, the short story he had read, I think it's called guts. And he goes, I'm still horrified by it. And I want to take lots of hours. And I was like, right. Carla (27m 31s): Isn't that awesome. So even though he doesn't, you know, years from now, he may forget the words of that story, but he's going to remember that when he got done, he was like, oh my gosh. So, you know, that's what you want to read with. You know, lastly probably is less as more. It really is. You know, I think we've all seen somebody who had on too much makeup, you know, and you look at them and you just think, oh my gosh, with half that makeup, you would look amazing. You know, sometimes too much is not enough. It's like, and my coach asked me yesterday, Hey, do you want to spar? And I'm like, yeah, I want to spar. Carla (28m 11s): That's like Starbucks asking me if I want whipped cream. Don't insult me. Yes. I want whipped cream. Yes, of course. I want whipped cream. The rule should be, if you don't want it, say it, there should never be a question about it. So, but when it comes to writing, especially in the time that we live in, if you read more classic works like, you know, Jane Austin, Bronte, DH Lawrence, oh, I love doing Florence. They tell you everything. They tell you about the pebbles on the walkway. They tell you everything about the daisies and the sun. Okay. But those were also people who didn't have TV. And so books where their TV, you really have to get into all the details. Carla (28m 55s): And we're a different society now for good and bad. I think they said that humans officially have a shorter attention span than goldfish kidding. And which is one of the reasons. Well, I mean, it's true. I mean, w we're multitaskers, we jumped to so many things. And for that reason, they do suggest that we make our chapters shorter. You know, if you're a Y a author, they tell you, Hey, make short chapters. Because teenagers that read Y a which actually the audience for why a is like 18 to 35, they want to feel that feeling of progression. You know, oh, I got this chapter done. I got this chapter done. And so we live in a very short attention span society. Carla (29m 40s): And so you have got to make the most of every single word Michelangelo. They asked him how he created David. And a lot of people have heard this. He said, I just took a rock, a piece of stone. And I took away everything that wasn't David, you know? And, and that's how, that's how it is. You have to edit, you have to edit, what is it? They say, edit with a knife or edit with a sword or something like that. But you know, you, you write, oh, well, Hemingway again, he said, write drunk, edit sober. Yeah. You have to be willing to really cut things down. Even if it's something you love, which reminds me of another thing about fight scenes. Carla (30m 22s): I think some, and I'm guilty of it as well. I think sometimes we write to teach rather than reach and that's the wrong way to go about it. We want to show the reader, look how much research I've done. I'm not a surgeon, but I play one in this book. You know? And when, if you're teaching your, unless you're writing a craft book, the, okay, I'm talking about fiction and informational nonfiction, your goal is to reach your reader, not be teaching your reader. If you have to constantly be defining things in your work, you've made an error. Carla (31m 3s): And you know that when you use technical lingo in your work, you risk losing your reader. You know, it can take, it can take, when you send in your work to an agent or an editor, they asked for the first 50 pages they used to, I don't know what they ask for any more, but usually it's first 50 pages. So in their reading, their, their idea is if you don't have me in that 50 pages, you don't have me. So it can take, you know, a ton of time to really get a reader in your work, but it can take a page to lose them, you know? And, and you don't want that. So don't isolate your readers, you know, and again, sometimes you have to use technical lingo. Carla (31m 44s): And I think print the princess bride, the book is absolutely a perfect example of that. Just like the movie, which is one of those that the book and the movie really do each other justice. You know, it's not one that like, oh, this is so much better. You know, they're really both, very tongue in cheek and funny, but the fight between Wesley, as the dread pirate, Roberts and Inigo, they starts the very first one where they're spitting out all that technical lingo. Yes. It's the same thing in the book, same thing. But it talks about the foot movement and about, and not he steps, right. But dust coming off the ground, okay, that's a picture. You told me how fast they're moving. Carla (32m 26s): And you realize that they're shooting out this technical lingo to outdo one another. So in that case, it matters. Technical lingo also matters. If you have someone who has an expertise or proficiency with a something, it makes sense that they're going to use some words, you know, a police officer wouldn't call the trigger, the pew pew thingy. You can do that. Somebody who works with knives, isn't going to call it the sticky part, you know, the stabby end. So yeah, you need to know the technical lingo there, but at the same time, you need to show the reader. What's that means you don't tell them. Carla (33m 6s): You don't tell them that, but you show it. So don't worry, aim for believability rather than authenticity. Number two less is more three, right. To reach rather than teach. And I think I've missed one in there, but yeah, start there. And, and honestly, I give you permission to not write so much, that burden has been lifted off of you. You do not have to convince your reader that you are an expert in this. You only have to convince your reader that the character is an expert at this. Carla (33m 46s): Okay. And Unless they aren't, which is statistically more likely, it is strange. How many people in books know how to fight when the average population does not. They absolutely. Don't when I'm at writing conferences, one of the things I do is I'll say, okay, make a fist and hold it up. And it's shocking. The majority of people don't know how to make a fist. And I'm like, that's why would you know how to make a fist? Nobody's taught you? So I give you permission to not know something it's absolutely. Okay. You know? And when it comes to fighting, there are some great resources out there. There are some great fighting resources. Carla (34m 27s): Mine happens to be a fighting resource from the perspective of a her, which is, is very, very different. So I think I answered your question. If I don't answer the question, say Nope, circle back. Autumm (34m 41s): Great. So yes, you listed definitely some things that authors are doing wrong. And I agree, because I think there's often a tendency to focus on the wrong aspects. I'll see descriptions of like the sword hilt coming towards you. And you're like, you wouldn't know the emblem as it's about to knock you in the forehead. Carla (35m 0s): Oh, you would not. You would not. Absolutely not. Autumm (35m 5s): You know, there a wound is mentioned, but not the pain that goes with it. And then it seems like a chapter later, the character is fine. And I'm like, well, if you'd focus on how it's going Carla (35m 16s): To feel to Autumm (35m 19s): Hold holds, Carla (35m 20s): These people heal so fast. Yes. If you want to go into the tiny nuances. Yeah. Healing time is a thing, people. And if your character is on the battlefield a lot, just because you don't get knocked out, doesn't mean you don't have a concussion just because you're knocked out. Doesn't mean you do have a concussion. And when you do get knocked out from a punch, you're not out all day, it's sometimes 10 seconds, sometimes 30 seconds, you know? So you don't have time to have a whole scene. You know, now, I mean, of course, when it comes to the human body, there's going to be variables that, you know, it depends on the age, the person and all that on my Instagram, I'm on Instagram at Carla C a R L a dot C dot Hoke, H O C H. Carla (36m 9s): Or you can just hashtag fight right. Once a week, I do like a little fight, right? Tip or I put a blog post that you might want to read. And one that I have coming up, I don't know when it's scheduled it. I think it's sometime this month, but it is the healing of bruise, bruise, healing time, and the different colors and the spectrum it goes through. And one of the things I say is, you know, this is dependent upon the age of the person, the health of the person. And don't think you're going to see all of those particular colors, but for reference, you know, this is what you have. So definitely I think it's important to focus on the pain of things. Carla (36m 49s): There's no greater motivator of man than pain. Everybody can relate to pain. So really I'm laser focused in on the things every reader can relate to versus only the readers who have held a bastard sword, or who have swung a mace. You know, how many people really have done that. So focus on the human experience, essence of the scene, which is the pain and the sensory details of it. Oh, I think that's the emotional impact. Yes. I was going to mention the other thing. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Very seldom. Does somebody, it, it seems so easy to kill people and you would, you know, we look at crime statistics and we think it's no big deal. Carla (37m 38s): You just, you know, shoot somebody, you go about your day. It has a lasting impact. It really does. And even if the person just kind of goes blank, that's an impact. That's not normal. It's not normal to feel absolutely nothing. And one of two things is, is going to take place either that person has some psychopathic or sociopathic issues with their brain, which is not normal, or they're going to put it in a little box in the side of their brain and not deal with it. In which case it's going to come up somewhere else in their life and just nightmare. And I cannot to, it is so common from what I've seen when people kill somebody else that they, they dream about that person again and again. Carla (38m 19s): And I mean, these are even people in jail who have killed multiple people in world war two. They did a study. There's a book called on killing by SLA Marshall. There's a lot of it. There's a subtitle with it too, but the main is on killing and, and he did a study of the soldiers and the Pacific American theater and how many bullets per kill. And it was an obscene. I forget like 60 something bullets for every one kill. And there is one instance where they had an enemy combatant running over, running through an empty clearing. And you had all these American shoulders shooting at them. Carla (39m 2s): And none of them hit them. It was very star wars, very, very norm trooper aiming. And they were all shooting over their head or they were shooting in front of him on the ground. And it's because inherently killing another person is not a normal place to exist. It's not our homeostasis. It should not be right. And so between world war two and the Vietnam war, that's the one that came next. Yet the Vietnam war, they started operant conditioning and it's the same thing they have to do with police officers. And it, they literally not only train soldiers to kill from a technical tactical standpoint, they train them from a psychological standpoint. Carla (39m 43s): And so they went through operant conditioning and all these little, all these things, you know, when you hear policemen talk about criminals that may have been killed, they don't, they don't say the person may say the perp, they say the target and that is distancing themselves from the other. And it's the other. And it's not a matter of coldness it's to help their brain process everything they've been through. So, yeah, and, and my book focuses a lot on that. I think people expect my book to be all about punching and kicking. And I would say a good half of it more than half of it is not, and is divided into five rounds. And there's chapters within those rounds, the rounds are sections. Carla (40m 25s): It's five rounds like a championship MMA. And the second round is all about the human experience. You know, it's, it's what happens to us psychologically when we kill another person, it's about what adrenaline does to you, what a surge does, what a dump does. It talks about mental manipulation and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, little things like that, that people don't realize. I'm also amazed how many characters though. They are soaked in adrenaline. Just think so clearly. So, and their hands are steady. And I'm like, I have had people ask me to sign things just after practice. And I can't, I mean, my hand is shaking. Carla (41m 8s): It's the adrenaline it's, it's what it does to your body. So yeah, I think the opportunities that writers are missing are actually the opportunities that number one are the easiest opportunity to, to take. And they make the most lasting impression. So step away from the technical aspect of it. I'm not saying make it completely crazy. You know what I'm saying? Look, there's some things that just, ain't a thing, picking up somebody by their neck and talking to them in the real world and a thing not possible Even then, because I did. Yeah. Oh, I know because my husband works in oil and gas and he's had to go to companies that do, they rent large equipment everything. Carla (41m 55s): And I asked him something about cranes and there is actually a formula. They go through to create a crane so that you know how much weight you can lift before that crane topples over. Right? And so then if I am strong enough to hold you up, your weight is going to topple me forward. And that was something in the wonder woman movie. I have so many issues with the one. I love gal Gadot as an actress. I think she does a beautiful job, but there's one scene in the most recent movie where she's holding a man over the balcony. I think she's holding him by his foot and she's leaning over and talking to him. Carla (42m 37s): And I'm like, gal Gadot is what a buck 25 with weights on. And she's holding this 200 pound man. She may be strong enough to do it, but physics isn't going to let that happen. Physics is going to pull her over the edge. So it's true. Make it, make it easier. And just remember physics is a thing the majority of fighting is physics. So, Autumm (42m 60s): Oh, I think that is actually a fantastic note to wrap up on because that is, that is something. So, you know, even though we're talking about fantasy, even though we can play with magic or maybe tweak the physics of our world a little bit, there's things that are real. Carla (43m 15s): We still have gravity. Magic has rules. You have to establish the rules of your magic. You have to establish reality for your reader immediately. Okay? If everybody on the planet has superhuman strength, it's not superhuman anymore. It's the norm. So you better know the rules of your world and you better print them out and keep them on the wall so that you can just glance at them. So you don't have to open a file. Cause let me tell you, who will remember the rules of your world and that's your readers? Absolutely. So I like it. I always say don't cross the streams. Meaning from Ghostbusters at the original Ghostbusters, at the beginning, don't cross the streams. Carla (43m 56s): Everything in the world will go into nothing. And then what do they do to get the stay? Puft marshmallow man. Yup. But we love the movie they had to, but they broke their own rules. So just, if you're going to put, if you have little rules to remember that you keep on your wall, behind your computer, put up, don't cross the streams, keep the rules handy. Do not defy the rules of your world. Do not defy the rules of your magic. And I'm sorry if we're going over time, do I just go for it? Okay. Okay. You have to have characters that can be beatable. They cannot be invincible. Carla (44m 36s): That's very true. Oh my gosh. If they're invincible, then the story's over the first page. Even Thanatos can be beaten. Superman can be beaten. And a lot of times what your care, if you're having a hard time figuring out, well, how can you beat this person? Okay. Well, a lot of times their strength is, is linked to their weakness. They knows who's super, super, super huge. And so what defeated him? Tiny little nanobots. They were able to drive. I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Another one. Superman. Why is he so strong? Because his home planet, you know, they have the sun and they have different gravity. Carla (45m 19s): Okay. Well what's his weakness. Something from his home planet kryptonite, you know? So look at, and while we're talking about fantasy, let me just, I'm going to digress super quick. Oh sure. Dragons, dragon dragons. I love dragons. I think we need to do them justice. You ain't going to stand on the back of a dragon while it's fine. You're not going to do that. It's like standing on an airplane. It's not going to happen when people think, oh, you've just got rains. And I'm like, okay, have you ever been on a horse? Do you know when you stand up on a, when you stand up on a horse, it's considered trick riding for a reason. Carla (46m 4s): So if you are riding, I should have gotten into the fantasy stuff straight off the bat. I apologize for that. If you are riding on the back of the dragon and you're like, what weapons should my person have? If they're on the back of a dragon, you're on the back of a dragon advantage. You, you don't need a weapon. It's like being in it. You are on the weapon. It's like, well, my person is my soldiers in a tank. What weapon does he need? He's in a tank. You know the dragon. Absolutely. If you need your wag, you know your dragon to do something, have them drop something from their claws. Oh, brilliant. Or have them use their, use that tail for heaven sake. Carla (46m 45s): Now they can't use it so well while they're flying because they need that tail while they're flying. Yes, it's a rudder. And you have to remember when the dragon takes off, it doesn't take off like a helicopter. You know, it's going to have to flap. And so the person on top is going to be, I'm not saying you can't ride a dragon. I'm just saying, I want to see that saddle. And I also don't think you're going to be able to keep your eyes open because of how fast they're moving. Oh my gosh, you're going to need goggles. Also. I don't think dragon smoke is black. I think it's white. And here is why. Whenever you see you have a fire and the dark smoke comes out of it, the dark smoke is what could not be burned off. Carla (47m 32s): Okay. It is what could not be efficiently consumed by the fire, a dragon, whatever is the source of their flame. Pretty sure it's going to be efficient enough to not have anything leftover may seem steam. It, yeah, you may seem steam in the air because the heat, you know, the humidity in the air. But I don't think there's going to be elements of that flame that aren't going to burn. That just doesn't make sense to me. And I talk about dragons in the book and I, and I call it my, my dragon soap box. Oh, the dragon soapbox. I love dragons. Carla (48m 14s): I, it's hard for me to imagine. And you know what, call me crazy. Don't care. Clearly I don't care. Every culture in the world has had a concept of a dragon. And so you're telling me nothing like that ever existed. How can the Vikings and you know, the Chinese who had never encountered each other, both have dragons, you know, you have CATSA. Quadel Exactly. So I, and you know, there, there are descriptions in the Bible that you're like, oh, okay. Carla (48m 53s): Maybe there were such a thing. So also, yeah. Get your dragon, right. People get your dragon, right. If it is a water dragon, it's construction is going to be different than if it's an ice dragon. It's going to be different than, you know, and not all dragons may have wings. Some of them may not. So, but I'm sorry. I love fantasy. Love it. Love it. Love it. And so that's one of my hangups. Autumm (49m 20s): Well, I'm not going to complain about that hangup. I think it's perfect. I already could talk to you for like, there's just so many nuances that I would love to get into and oh my God, this would be, this was so much fun. So yeah, I think we would carry on here for the next two hours. Carla (49m 38s): Yeah. Don't get me started about armor. I can go off on armor. I can go off about the weaponry. Armor is determined by the weaponry. It's not the other way around the armor that existed at the time of crossbows is not going to be the same as the armor that existed before, you know, crossbows armor from Japan is going to be different than armor from Europe. And that has to do with the availability of natural resources. So again, I could go off on that, but I know you we're running out of time. I apologize. Autumm (50m 7s): You know, we, we, like I said, I don't think that any listener is going to complain one bit. It's so true. I think, just to think about things like that, like you have different cultures, even if you're not using China, you're not using the earth. Think about the technology, the weapons and the different, depending on what's it, this is an aspect of you're right. Everyone's a winner. Carla (50m 29s): Right. And I can, I can do a whole podcast on creating weaponry to they look the way they do because they serve a certain purpose, not just cause it's cool. Autumm (50m 37s): So Carla (50m 38s): If you have a podcast on creating weaponry and all that kind of stuff, girl, I will talk your ear off. Autumm (50m 45s): Well, maybe we'll have to think about doing this a follow-up on something like that. Cause that would be, Carla (50m 51s): That would be great. Autumm (50m 52s): We could blast. Well, I, and I'm so excited to know, dragons are in your fight, right. Book, because you just hooked me. That's like, we could just, we could make your check-ins right. Oh Carla (51m 4s): Right. I have a fighting robots, dragons, robots, aliens, and Beasties. When I got the contract with writer's digest, they said, can two things, can you add 25,000 words? And can you add a chapter on fighting aliens? And I'm like, can I write a chapter on fighting aliens? That can be my 25,000 words right there. So yes, if you are fighting mythical creatures, if you have special circumstances, even I talk about, you know, battling telekinesis and all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot. Yeah. There's a lot of really groovy stuff in there. Autumm (51m 35s): Yeah. That sounds like, I think just about every listener's dream come true is being offered a book contract to say, can you write about fighting aliens or dragons? Carla (51m 46s): And you let your nerd show, oh, I can. So let my nerd shows like, yeah, what star Trek pajamas do you want me to wear while I ride it? Cause I have, Autumm (51m 55s): Yeah. Brilliant. Oh, thank you so much. And you know, we may have to, we'll have to give listeners, do you want to follow up, you know, let us know and we will maybe Carla back on that would be brilliant. So not everyone know. I will obviously have tons of things in the show notes, but let people know where to find you. Okay. Carla (52m 17s): The quickest way to find me is FightWrite.net. F I G H T W R I T E.net, if you mistake and do F I G H T R I G H T, you're still going to get there. I own them. It will lead you to the blog and the index. Just go to the index and peruse it. I'm trying to make it very search engine optimized so that you can really find keywords quick. And you can also buy my book directly from there. FightWrite. If I G H W R it's right here. It's right there on the back fight. Right? If I G yeah. How to write believable fight scenes with writers digest. Look me up on the Instagram hashtag fightwrite? Carla (52m 58s): Carla dot C dot hope because every now and then I'll put out a call on my story on, Hey, let me answer some questions for you. And I'll go, IGTV, I do have a YouTube channel that I have grossly abandoned, but I will get back to it. I just have too much going on. So that's the best way to find me. I have a contact form in the blog and, and on my website. And I, I literally answer questions, people. So send them my way. That's how I know what to write about on the blog. You know, I can write about what I think is interesting or I can yeah. Or I can write about what readers actually, or writers want me to know the answer for them. So feel free to reach out anytime. Autumm (53m 33s): That was good. And if you go to your website, take a look at your about section, which is hilarious on your wife's. I'm just going to leave that hook there to make people go and read your about section. It's adorable. Carla (53m 47s): You know, somebody called somebody called me and they said, I found your bio on a writer's blog. This is like six years ago. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And they were saying how to write a funny bio. And they had used my bio. I'm like, my bio is real. It's not funny. So get over yourselves, read the bio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it also tells what all my fight experience is, Autumm (54m 10s): Which is definitely you have a resume there alone of what you're finding experiences. It is brilliant. Oh my gosh. Next time I'm in Texas. I am definitely stopping by. It would be way too much fun. Carla (54m 22s): Absolutely. Absolutely. For Autumm (54m 24s): A road trip. Cool. So come back next week for Monday where it'll be another one of our famous top 10 worst lists with Yesper and I they're awesome. There's so much fun. Narrator (54m 42s): You like what you just heard? There's a few things you can do to support the am writing fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going, stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

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This week on the show, we’re catching up on all that we weren’t able to chat about the last couple weeks with the 300th episode celebration! On the Afterlife front, Jason Reitman confirms November in theaters date, Ernie Hudson has seen the movie, Annie Potts calls the experience of making the movie “trippy,” and the onslaught of Mini-Puft merch has begun including blind bags, Christmas ornaments, and walkie talkies! The Buffalo Ghostbusters are raising funds for Hook and Ladder No. 8 to get them a new not-so-subtle sign. Randy Edelman’s fantastic Ghostbusters II score is coming in June (now confirmed) and we have the track listings for the vinyl release. All that and a whole lot more on the show!

Be sure to check out our sponsor Grow Generation at www.GrowGeneration.com "Where the Pros Go to Grow." Start your day geek with LRMornings. LRM‘s daily morning show with Kyle and a merry band of cohorts. Join them as they discuss entertainment news and all things geek. From Star Wars to comic books and Netflix to Disney+, Video Games to the MCU, and even trips down Memory Lane... We talk about it all! LRMornings is your place for morning entertainment, and sometimes news. In today's episode, Kyle and Manny discuss entertainment news including, Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters 2, Ghostbusters: Answer the Call (2016), and Ghostbusters: Afterlife. Yes... 2 days in a row. Right after Bill Murray praises the sequel as close in tone to the original, a very The Real Ghostbusters-like clip was released. Will Afterlife be a good movie? Maybe. Is it going to be a good Ghostbusters movie? That is a tall order and remains to be seen. Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/PyrzzmrceY LRMornings will try to be live every Thursday at 9:30am ET/6:30am PT. Also, be sure to follow LRM and Kyle on Twitter to get the latest on upcoming guests, new segments, and chances to be a guest on one of our podcasts! Support: We have SO MANY podcasts! Anime-Versal Reviews Podcast covers anime (duh!), LRM's No Mercy covers Cobra Kai, and the Marvel craze continues with WandaVision reviews on Marvel Multiverse Mondays. Also, classics like BGRtP, The Cantina Podcast, and LRmornings are still going! Please like, share, and SUBSCRIBE to the podcast. This will help us help you! Also, by getting more visibility, with more feedback, and a bigger audience, we can provide more content for YOU! Question(s) of the day: Are you excited about Ghostbuster: Afterlife? What are your thoughts on the Mini-Pufts? Catch the last episode here: https://youtu.be/aSFaBjN9CEU Website: www.LRMOnline.com Kyle Twitter: twitter.com/ThatKyleMalone Jammer Twitter: twitter.com/JAMtheWriter Manny Twitter: twitter.com/LRM_Emmanuel Nick Twitter: twitter.com/GeekyNICKDOLL Brian YT: www.youtube.com/channel/UCPmuColevvFf...​ Subscribe to our podcast channel where ever you get podcasts! Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/4h1ngeRAmfYxWdzeblFmNe Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/@los-fanboys

The Ghostbusters: Afterlife marketing campaign has been relaunched, and we're starting off with one of the most terrifyingly cute surprises ever; The Mini-Pufts! Join the YHS crew for a full breakdown, analysis, and review of the new teaser! Subscribe to Yes Have Some on YouTube - http://shorturl.at/djD09​​​​​ Follow YHS on Social Media - * http://www.instagram.com/yhspodcast​​​​​ * https://www.facebook.com/groups/YHSGr...​ * http://www.twitter.com/yhspodcast​ Want to Send us something? YES HAVE SOME PO BOX 82024 Atlanta GA, 30354 --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/yhspodcast/support

The one about lead generation and content, video lighting, Wikipedia and Ghostbusters - TG25  00:00:00 Introduction  Here are your hosts, Roger and Pascal.   00:01:45 In the News  A selection of announcements and news releases from the world of marketing and technology that caught our attention.  00:11:12 Content Spotlights   ROGER: Domino's merges digital and marketing teams, Marketing Week by Lucy Tesseras. https://www.marketingweek.com/dominos-merges-digital-and-marketing-teams/ (https://www.marketingweek.com/dominos-merges-digital-and-marketing-teams/)  PASCAL: Demand Generation for Content Marketing in the next decade by Robert Rose, Content Marketing Institute https://contentmarketinginstitute.com/2021/01/demand-gen-content-marketing-research/ (https://contentmarketinginstitute.com/2021/01/demand-gen-content-marketing-research/)  00:25:30 Marketing Tech and Apps   ROGER:   Lighting for home video studios. Elgato Key Light: https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/key-light (https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/key-light)  Hand held mini-camera with gimble: DJI Pocket 2: https://www.dji.com/uk/pocket-2 (https://www.dji.com/uk/pocket-2)  PASCAL:  Create embed code for responsive YouTube videos https://embedresponsively.com/ (https://embedresponsively.com/)   Wikipedia is 20 years old! https://wikimediafoundation.org/wikipedia20/ (https://wikimediafoundation.org/wikipedia20/)  00:36:58 This Week in History  Our selection of historical events and anniversaries from the world of science, technology and popular culture.  00:45:22 Creator Shout Outs  PASCAL: David Kilkelly, video marketing specialist and video producer/director, just shared his ‘Create 2021' message on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shPMdIRTs70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shPMdIRTs70)   ROGER: Matthew Dicks | Podcast: Speak Up Story Telling: Review of Wonder Woman 1984: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/matthew-dicks-wonder-woman-breakdown/id1386552794?i=1000505453993 (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/matthew-dicks-wonder-woman-breakdown/id1386552794?i=1000505453993)  00:51:44 Film Marketing  Known for the hit song by Ray Parker Junior, one of the first examples of viral marketing and The Stay Puft Marshmellow Man, Ghostbusters is one of the most famous and iconic comedies of all time. Released in 1984 it starred an ensemble cast. Bill Murray, Dan Ackroyd, Harold Ramis, Ernie Hudson, Sigourney Weaver, Rick Moranis and William Atherton.  About Two Geeks and A Marketing Podcast    Hosted by the two geeks, Roger Edwards and Pascal Fintoni, to keep you up to date with the latest news, tech, content and wisdom from the world of marketing.  Roger is a man on a mission to keep marketing simple. He is the voice of the Marketing & Finance Podcast and the host of the RogVLOG series.   Pascal is also on a mission to demystify digital marketing. He's the host of the Content Marketing Studio video podcast and many other video series.  Every week we'll bring you the following segments.  In the News.  Content Spotlight  Marketing Tech and Apps  This Week in History  Creator Shout Outs  Film Marketing  Please subscribe and leave comments and suggestions in the usual places.  Watch the show on video: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCChv7HnP_ZqGoFQbzqkeaKA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCChv7HnP_ZqGoFQbzqkeaKA)?  Pascal Fintoni: https://pascalfintoni.com/ (https://pascalfintoni.com/)  Roger Edwards: https://rogeredwards.co.uk/services/ (https://rogeredwards.co.uk/services/) 

Let's go back in time and not look at the original movie Ghostbusters with a critical or reviewing eye, but check out how the movie came to be in the first place.From the very first script that had crazy differences from the actual movie to who was originally in mind to play as some of the Ghostbusters.This is a deep dive that goes step by step into the making of the movie and how it played out in real life. Learn how all the cast got their roles, the original color of the Ecto-1 and so so much more.Any fan casual or hardcore will learn something from this episode.Also, Happy Halloween!

It's Blake here! I made a little cameo over at Hayley Stevens' podcast The Spooktator, joining Jeb Card (In ReSearch Of) to talk about the paranormal series HELLIER (Amazon, YouTube).  If you're not familiar with that show, it's an independent paranormal show that combines pretty much every kind of paranormal topic you can think of into a strange narrative about... you know what?  Just check out our coverage.   (And Hayley's extensive show notes HERE.) 

When we compare fictitious characters with true to life entities, there are a lot of similarities and differences—but where are those lines blurred? --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

The saying goes "To the left of me, lazy. To the right of me, crazy.". It's human nature to think that we know the right way things ought to be done. This is true for us as IT folks and may even be true in our religious life. However, religion has A LOT to say about how, when, and why you might offer "correction", and that may inform the ways in which we offer advice to our wayward IT bretheren. In this episode Josh, Doug, and Leon explore the ways in which our religious sensibilities can inform the way we help our colleagues to stay on the straight and narrow. Listen or read the transcript below. Kate: 00:00 Welcome to our podcast where we talk about the interesting, frustrating and inspiring experience we have as people with strongly held religious views working in corporate IT. We are not here to preach or teach you our religion or lack thereof. We're here to explore ways we make our careers as IT professionals mesh or at least not conflict with our religious life. This is Technically Religious Leon: 00:25 As the saying goes "To the left of me, lazy to the right of me, crazy" It's human nature to think that we know the right way that things ought to be done. This is true for us as IT folks and may even be true in our religious life. However, religion has a lot to say about how when and why you might offer correction and that may inform the ways in which we offer advice to our wayward IT brethren. I'm Leon Adato and the other voices you're going to hear on this episode are my partners in podcast crime, Josh Biggley, Josh: 00:55 Hi-di-ho, neighbor! Leon: 00:57 And Doug Johnson. Doug: 00:58 Hi, dee-ho? Leon: 01:02 Right! Now he's a resident Canadian. He's got to do that. It's like a thing. Josh: 01:06 It's true. I just want to point out before we jump in that we also have, um, IT Sistren? I don't know what the word is for that. Leon: 01:13 Yeah, no, that's true. IT, yeah. Folks, Doug: 01:16 Sistern! Leon: 01:18 No, we're not doing that. It folks. F. O. L. X. Yes, you're right. Um, Josh: 01:23 So F O L. X. Great. And now we're talking in l33t speak. This is fantastic. Leon: 01:28 No, it's, it's good. It's a thing. Doug: 01:29 Totally woke. Leon: 01:29 All right, before we dive into the actual topic, I'd like to give everyone a chance for some shameless self promotion. Josh, why don't you kick it off? Josh: 01:37 I'm Josh Biggley. I am a senior engineer of enterprise monitoring. You can find me on the Twitters at uh, at @jbiggley. I've also started up a new Twitter handle called, uh, uh, what's it called? Wait, uh, @DataGeekCA because I was, I was shamed for not having a Data Geek Canada, uh, tag. So now I do. Um, if you want, you can go to www.faithtransitions.ca and follow along with my faith transitions community, uh, for religious observance? Currently Post-Mormon transitioning into ex-Mormon. New Speaker: 02:12 Great. How about you Doug? Doug: 02:13 I'm the CTO of WaveRFID. We do inventory software as a service using a radio-frequency identifier tags to go ahead and track glasses and things in medical offices. I'm not on social media at all anymore. I just was spending way too much time on it and I decided to bail. But you can find out about our company at www.waveRFID.net and uh, I'm basically in evangelical Christian. Leon: 02:39 Great. And for those people who are scribbling down this stuff, you know that we're going to have show notes usually a day after the podcast drops so you can stop scribbling and keep listening. Um, I'm Leon Adato. I am a Head Geek at SolarWinds. Yes, that's actually my job title. It's the best one on earth. You can find me on Twitter or the Twitters, as we say at Leon Adato. You can also read my pontifications on all things technical and sometimes nontechnical at www.adatosystems.com and I identify as Orthodox Jewish sometimes to the chagrin of my Rabbi who often finds the things that I say challenging for him to have to answer for. Um, which is kind of where we are. We're talking about people sort of going off the rails and doing bad things and what we do about it or can do about it. And what I want to do is I want to first define it like any good IT person. I want to define what we're talking about. So we're not talking about really bad things, we're not talking about things that would get you into an orange jumpsuit or have you do hard time. But what are the things that we're talking about? Josh: 03:44 Oh, I'm going to do a really bad thing right now and I'm going to tell you that I found your next job. Leon: 03:49 Okay. Josh: 03:49 I was in New York city recently and I had a chance to talk with the lead Site Reliability Engineer for Marvel. Leon: 03:59 Josh: 04:01 Yes. Leon: 04:01 Josh: 04:01 For Marvel. Leon: 04:01 Okay. Josh: 04:05 This, this. If Leon ever gets fired... Doug: 04:10 This is not as rare as you might think. Leon: 04:13 Right!?! Josh: 04:15 I mean that's why I was looking out for him. Uh, Leon: 04:19 It's a thing, right? Josh: 04:20 It is a thing. Okay. So that's not a bad thing. I mean looking out for your, your fellow, um, your, your friends, uh, your colleagues and helping them find a role. Um, that's a good thing. I think you should do, you know, um, much to the chagrin of Charity Majors you should not test in prod. Leon: 04:39 Okay. Right. Yeah. People. Okay. So again, testing, testing in prod when there is a process for testing in prod I think is different than people who just try to sneak stuff in without a change control, without telling anybody they're just going to do it and hope that they, that nobody notices. That's the problem. Doug: 05:00 My dev team almost tried to do that a week ago. We, we release about once every couple of weeks and we were all set to release and there was, it was Thursday we were going to be releasing that weekend cause we released it on the weekend so we don't mess up any of our clients. And, um, there was just this one little thing that, that, uh, the product owner wanted and they said, Oh, well we can just go ahead and do that and get it done. I said, no, no, we'll do it in the next release. No, cause they're like a bunch of cowboys, you know, it's like, Oh yeah, we can just put it in and fix it. It's like, no! Bad! Fortunately, I'm CTO, so I can say "Bad. No." Leon: 05:37 Right. Okay. So that's a bad thing that people do. So there's other things though, but whether it's IT or religious or whatever, I, so one thing that I see in the Orthodox community, people who, uh, make religious decisions for other people when they really don't have the credibility to do it. Like they might have a position in the synagogue, maybe they lead really well or they're just always there and present and they feel like that gives them the right to, um, say "You ought to do blah, blah." Or "Here I can tell you how to do this thing." Um, and that's honestly, that's the job of the rabbi. That's why the rabbis there. Um, so I think that that's, that's another one of those bad things that that fits within the framework of what we're talking. Doug: 06:22 It happens with Bible instructors in Christianity, the guys who are teaching the classes and that kind of stuff, people look to them for guidance where really you should be going. The kinds of things that they talking about. You should be going to the elders or the, the, uh, pastors. Okay. Josh: 06:37 So the great irony, in Mormonism, at least at the local level, they practice lay ministry. That means that you are literally asking your plumber or your accountant for marriage advice because there is no training for clergy. Leon: 06:59 I can see that being problematic. I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to trigger the post-Mormon here. I just, you know, Josh: 07:06 Too late. I'm already triggered. Doug: 07:08 Although I could, I could see the examples that the plumber would use for marriage counseling, ALL: 07:14 Doug: 07:14 Just saying. Leon: 07:14 Oh my God! . Josh: 07:15 This have anything to do with the melons? Leon: 07:19 Okay, wait, the melons are later. Don't spoil the melons. Doug: 07:25 I'm sorry. Leon: 07:27 So what are some other things moving along... Doug: 07:31 In IT, for instance, one of the things that is, uh, people who are architects for instance, tend to go ahead and just say, well, this is the only way we're, this is the way we're gonna do it no matter what. Whereas in Agile, it's supposed to be the team come suit decision. But if you've got somebody who is got strong opinions and is in a position of I'm going to put power in quotes, or even if they just have a strong personality, they can go ahead and cut the discussion short, um, way too soon. Leon: 08:04 Right. That's a bad thing. Okay. Josh: 08:06 Yeah. And I think that, that, that ties in nicely with the, the religious context of thinking that you are better than somebody else, that, that holier than thou thing. I mean, um, some, uh, some people that we meet in our careers really do think that they are gods and that what they say is they can't go wrong. And unfortunately we run into those people in our religious observance, hell, we run into those people in, you know, in our coaching experiences. In our, you know, when you're out talking, you know, geek stuff with just, they're everywhere. Don't, don't be that person. Doug: 08:47 All right. Right. On the flip side of that though, the more I learn about God, the worse I realize I am. Josh: 08:53 Yes. That is, that is true. No, no, no. I mean [inaudible] Doug: 08:56 I'm holier than nobody at this point! Leon: 09:00 Oh, so look who's nobody now, uh-huh. There's a joke that goes along with that. I'll post it in the show notes. Um, okay. And one thing that's worth mentioning just to wrap this up, the kinds of stuff that we're talking about, again, the kinds of things that we notice in our daily lives that cause us to want to issue a correction are just the low level office type cheating that you see people cheating on their time sheet, fudging on their expense reports, taking credit for work they didn't do. Doug: 09:27 Those are bad things? Leon: 09:27 Things those are, yeah, yeah, they're, they're bad. Um, those are things that, those are things that again, don't get me off track man, that really are, are meant. Those are the things that we can find difficult to avoid the impulse to want to just call them on the carpet and tell them that this is a problem. Meanwhile, there's a question about whether or not we should call whether or not we should avoid the impulse, whether that's in fact the the moment to do it. Um, but I, before we get there, I, I want to do a little bit of psychoanalysis, a little bit of sort of sociological, uh, digging. Why do these hah, don't people know better? I mean, come on. You know, these are not new concepts. We've all been on both the receiving, we've been on the receiving end of these people should know better. Why does this, why do you think these things keep happening? Josh: 10:21 So I had this conversation a couple of months ago with my friend and colleague, Zack Mutchler and Zack is a former Marine or is a Marine. I don't know how Marines refer to themselves once they aren't active anymore. Um, but he said this to me, he said, Josh, all Marines are soldiers. That's it. It doesn't make them good people. They're not any more trustworthy than anybody else. They're just Marines. Now, he did say that Marines are generally on the battlefield exemplary, but he said, stop, stop putting expectations of how you think people should behave just because they wear a particular label. And I thought, well, I mean that's interesting and maybe it's my expectations of people that are really falling down. And that is in both a religious context as well as the IT context. Like when I look at a fellow senior engineer, I have an expectation that they are going to function at a rather high level, but I'm a senior engineer after 20 years in the IT industry, someone else might be a senior engineer after six we might have the same technical knowledge, but certainly not the same context. Maybe not the same emotional maturity. Um, same business acumen. So, perhaps it's me who's,... my expectations are incorrect? Leon: 11:55 Interesting. Right? So, so just because people come from a particular community or ascribe to a particular philosophy or faith or whatever, doesn't mean that they naturally and automatically have all the traits that that group proclaims as being important or good. Josh: 12:16 Yes. You are not just a good engineer because you like Linux. Leon: 12:20 Um, okay, fine. All right. [Laughter] Took me a minute to swallow that one, but all right, so stipulated. I will take that one. Um, yeah, and I think that also says a lot about the nature of how we are all at our heart learners from, from the day we're born. We are learning. So you know, I am learning how to be, how to become a better engineer, Linux sysadmin, Jew, whatever it is, you don't automatically get like all the prizes. Um, so I can, I, I can see that, but I can also see how sometimes we want to, we want to give those traits because in some respects we need it. I need you to be that good. I need you to be that trustworthy right now and the, because you come from this group where you co you have this as part of your background that that's what I'm, I'm projecting on you, but now I need this and when you don't have it, I'm let down. And that's where the frustration can come. I also like the idea that, uh, you know, people, like you said, people are just people or as I put it a little bit more crassly Judaism has not in fact found the cure for the common asshole. Yeah. Josh: 13:34 Oh, well that's it, no, I'm going to, I'm not going to be Jewish anymore. Leon: 13:39 Okay. I just said we haven't found the cure we were looking for the cure. Yeah. No religion, no ethical point of view. No, uh, spin class. No CrossFit cult has found the, has found it. Doug: 13:56 No, I mean most people are just, I mean at most people are selfish, but I mean a lot of what we do, a lot of what religions about a lot of becoming an adult is burying some of that selfishness or at least disguising. And so that people can't tell that we're as selfish as we are. But I mean, a lot of this stuff just comes from trying to give myself a leg up over somebody else. I mean the, the whole, uh, "woke" thing now with everybody's saying, you know, you've got white privilege and therefore you should decry it and all that kind of stuff. And I'm going, nobody gives up their privilege. Right? If you were in a country that was predominantly African and Whites were, uh, the ones that were being beaten on you, would, nobody in that country would give up their black privilege. It's just not gonna happen. We can try and we can try and improve on that. We can be conscious of it. We can become better human beings, um, and, and try and make things more open for the whole world. But the reality is our bent is to go ahead and take care of ourselves, our kids, our family, our tribe first. And a lot of the stuff that comes to that is because of that. Leon: 15:13 Well, well that's, that's certainly part of the biological imperative. I also think that when we talk about privilege specifically, it's not so much give up your privilege as A) acknowledge it. Don't just say that, Hey, it all is mine and you can be yours too. Like, no, sometimes there are really strong societal factors that block it, but also, um, I won't say, nobody's saying give up the white privilege. What I am saying is that, um, to acknowledge and then use the privilege to create a more just and a more equal environment moving forward, which sounds like giving up privilege, but it is the same thing as saying, well if I, if I have this one candle and I light more candles, I'm not actually giving up light. Like, it doesn't diminish it. And that's the same thing. You know, when you use your privilege to open up the space for other people, you aren't in fact losing anything. Doug: 16:10 Right. But I think I, you know, it's not, I don't think it is most people's bent to do that. We have to work at that. That's why that's why we're doing this show. I mean the reality is it's stuff that we think about. It's because we are working on it as you said, cause we're learners. Um, not everybody is. Some people are just perfectly happy to just take everything that they can possibly get and just kind of crank on the lawn. There's a lot of people like that. Josh: 16:37 I think there's a lot of, a lot of people in the world too who are generally good people and for me this is, this is the hardest one where you find people that do mostly good things and then they justify doing that one bad thing. And I don't mean I do mostly good things and then one day I suddenly decide that I'm going to, I'm going a pocket a candy bar while I'm in the store. I mean, I do mostly good things and then one day I do a really despicable, awful thing. When that happens, whether by choice or circumstance, which leads you to a choice. That's a really a really challenging thing to be the person who decides to do that bad thing. And when we look from the outside and say, Oh that, I can't believe that Josh did that horrible thing. Inside I'm saying, yeah, but it was, it was just a little thing. Context. Justin Trudeau is the prime minister in Canada. We are currently in the midst of an election and it has come to light that Justin Trudeau, uh, dressed in black face a number of times, not once, not twice, not three times, but he doesn't remember how many times it occurred. And to him, he's saying, well, that was me then. This is me now. And on the outside we're saying, Oh my goodness. Now, um, I'm not going to tell you where I weigh in on that debate because I don't think it matters. It's, at least in Justin's mind it sounds like he saying, but I mostly do good things, but I did one bad thing. Leon: 18:29 So there's an interesting concept, uh, from the Jewish standpoint about free will and without going too deeply into it. And for those people who want to look it up and put in the show notes, rabbi Akiva Tatz has some interesting thoughts on this, but the, uh, the free will is you don't express your free will when you put on your socks in the morning or where you pick your cereal. That's not freewill. That's habit. Even if you pick Lucky Charms instead of frosted flakes or whatever, that's still not freewill. Freewill exists in a very particular point in our lives where we make a decision that challenges us in some way. So when you woke up in the morning you had to think really hard and make a really extended effort not to go out on the street and knock over an old lady and steal her purse. Right. Josh: 19:16 I did! Leon: 19:18 Okay. That's probably not okay. That's probably not where we're at, but there are people who wake up and that is a challenging question. Not because they're bad people, but you know because there's a circumstance because there's a context because of whatever and the decision not to go rob somebody is a very challenging one. That is the point at which their free will is operating. Saying that their free will allows them to go to their place of worship and pray about, that is light years ahead in the same that for me going to a Yeshiva like my boys do and learning all day is beyond my skills and capabilities. And to put that standard on me is, is unfair where I am at personally with my line of freewill, that's the battleground. That is that line and it moves back and forth. So what you're talking about, Josh is somebody for whom that battleground was in a particular place at a particular time and that battleground has shifted. And so that saying that's not who I am right now is in fact true, but at the same time it is who you were and there's a level of responsibility that we bear for that. Now what that is is also an interesting conversation both religiously and also, you know, in tech and things like that. You know, I am somebody who, uh, did not and purposely did not declare variables before using them. Doug: 20:47 I'm not even going to go there. Yes, I know. I've known that. I've known this about Leon for decades. Leon: 20:53 Yes, yes. It was something I proudly, I did proudly. And, uh, that is no longer the point at which I struggle. So there's, but there, yeah, Josh has a look on his face for those people listening. Josh has look, like he doesn't even know who I am anymore. He's not even sure we can be friends. Josh: 21:12 In fact, I was thinking that very thing. I don't know if we can be friends anymore, Leon. Leon: 21:16 But again, my point is, is that, um, but, but just to, to pull it back around again, you know, why do people do these bad things? So in some cases, this is the point at which their struggle is at, this happens to be their struggle point and, and they're going to go back and forth and they're going to work really hard at it and, and hopefully they make progress in the correct and the good right direction about it. That's one thing. Why else? Again, I'm going to get us back on track. Why else do people, uh, you know, fall into these traps? Doug: 21:47 Peer pressure. I mean, everybody else around you is doing it. Um, in fact, that that can even happen in religious communities. The whole, um, you can have situations where, um, in Christianity we're supposed to reach out to people regardless of their sin, because the whole point is to save people from their sin. And yet there are certain people who if they show up in the church, um, you know, they're going to be, they will be shunned by the people who are there, even though this is a person who you can, should actually be meeting where they are. Um, you know, there, I mean there's, there's, there are specific churches that reach out to people who were on drugs or to the homeless or to all these that other churches would have nothing to do with. And that should, and is that wrong? Well, it's not wrong if you look at everybody else in your church, and that's what people are doing, they're going, well, you know, yeah, we'll, we'll go down and help the homeless as long as we drive to where they are and they don't come to our church. Leon: 22:52 Right, right. Josh: 22:53 So back in 2013, uh, uh, uh, a Mormon Bishop, uh, named David Musselman, um, he dressed up as a, as a homeless man and walked into his congregation and he was, aghast at the response that he got from his congregants. Um, I mean for some people he, you know, he got, he got great responses from, you know, uh, offers, uh, food, um, offers of assistance. But he also had, he also had people who wanted him to leave because he didn't fit, um, he didn't fit that, that model. He wasn't wearing a suit and he wasn't clean. Yeah. The hub, that pressure to conform is real. Leon: 23:50 So I've seen that. I've seen that in communities where, uh, it's not even the, the individual. The thing is we don't want to become the synagogue where those people come. Where, you know, we don't want to be known as the synagogue for, for those kinds of people. And "those kinds of people" is an interesting mix. But you know, so we will do things which subtly let those people know this isn't their place, you know, and it can be everything from not calling page numbers, like just not calling page numbers. If you don't know where you are, probably not your place, you know, those kinds of things. Josh: 24:30 I would suggest that our listeners go out and I would love to see some vigorous debate on the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment at Yale University. Um, the latter of which involved, uh, someone in authority telling, uh, telling a volunteer to shock an individual in another room. Uh, I mean there's, there's, there will be volumes written on these two particular experiments, but I think they tie in nicely to that pressure to conform. Leon: 25:02 Okay, great. Um, okay, so moving along, uh, now that we have a sense or we've explored a little bit why people do do that, what does religion specifically say about how we should address these kinds of things? Again, we see it happening, it bothers us, and now we have an urge to go do something about it, to address that person or to to act in some way. What does our religious, uh, framework tell us about what we ought to be doing? Josh: 25:35 I mean, Jesus went into the temple with a cat o' nine tails and turned over the tables of the money changers and kicked them all out. Isn't that how we respond? This is why I work remote. I'm just going to point that out. [Laughter] Doug: 25:48 So if you're the Messiah, I think you can get away with stuff like that. How's that? Josh: 25:52 Okay. Leon: 25:55 I got, I got nothing. Doug: 25:57 It's different rules. But uh, in Christianity, um, in Matthew 18, basically it says, if your brother sins against you, you should go to him. And if you can win him back, you know, you go to him privately and if you can win him back, then you've won your brother. If he refuses to hear you, then you go back with two or three others so that all of the facts can be, you know, in public. And if he still refuses, then you take him before the church and if he still refuses to go ahead and repent, then you basically, you treat him like a tax collector and a, Oh, I forgot what the other word is. But in any case, but you don't kick him out of the church, but he's no longer one of your brothers. You don't treat him that way. Josh: 26:42 So Christianity sounds like the Mob. Doug: 26:44 Well it is to a certain extent except that you know, it is your brother has sinned against you. So this is, yeah. Leon: 26:52 Right. Okay. So, and that was the point I was going to bring up is that this is where you're saying somebody has wronged you in some way and so you of course have, I'm going to say the right, but you, you have the, the option of saying, Hey, this really bothers me and I need you to do something about it. You know, and the person you know has to, has to face up to it. That's interesting. What's interesting about this is that, uh, in the Jewish tradition, the focus that you just described is actually the opposite, the opposite way about what repentance is. That if you have something you need to repent for, there's this process. And the first thing is first of all, acknowledge to yourself that you did something wrong. And the second thing is to apologize to tell the person that you have wronged that you know you've done this. The third thing is to compensate. And so if possible, you know, to repair the thing that was broken or to pay for a replacement, whatever it is, can compensate. But then there's a fourth step and repentance is not complete until the fourth step occurs. And that's when given the opportunity to make the same mistake, the same sin again, you don't. And that until that occurs, you have not really fully repented. And there's a whole sense of, you know, waiting for this moment to come where it's like, Oh, this is just like the last time, except now I'm going to be doing, I'm going to do it differently. And that's what proves it. So to go back, Josh, to your point about the person who was dressing up in blackface, if given the opportunity to dress up that way, again, if they chose not to, that might be again, assuming all the other stuff had been done, you know, and it was sincere and all that stuff. But it's interesting that those are two sides of the same coin, right? One is when you have been wronged, what do you ask the other person to do? And hopefully they will take the lead and go ahead and on the other side, if you've done wrong, now you've got this, this problem, this feeling and I need to do something with it. I needed to act. So how do I do that? So having said that, the, the process for rebuke, the process for giving somebody a, you know, a correction in Judaism is again, like most things pretty, uh, pretty well organized. And it says first of all that if you see someone, if you see a friend walking a bad path, so it's not about someone doing something to you, you see them walking a bad path, um, then it is a commandment. It's a mitzvah. But that means commandment to return them to the good. If you don't, you are liable for the punishment of the sins your friend committed. Basically by failing to do something, by failing to act, you are ha you have ownership of the bad stuff they do because you could have stopped him. However, there's a whole series of buts that go along this. You have to get this rebuke privately and gently, okay, not publicly, not out. You know, and you have to do it for the person's good. That means that you have to make sure that in your heart there is no ounce of glee. There's no ounce of excitement that Oh, I finally give to give him what for and whatever that you have to be able to do it for their good and their good only. That you have to do it with love and you have to know for a fact that the person you're doing this to, you're giving this rebuke is going to hear it in the spirit that you mean it. And if any of those conditions is not true, then you are commanded not to say a word. Ever. Because you are going to do more harm than good. And I find that deeply interesting that you know, it starts off by saying, Hey, if you see him doing something wrong, it is your commandment is your obligation to fix it or else it's on you. Like they go and do something bad now your libel, but you've got to have this whole relationship. And if you don't have this whole relationship back off, be quiet. And, and the reason why I like that is because the implication it has in it in our technical lives, right? And when we started putting together this, this episode, I was thinking about code review, I was thinking about when I'm picking a Doug's code and like, Hey, Hey, there's this, you know how you could do that better? Hey that active directory design. Yeah, no, we could, you know what gives you any right to butt your nose into somebody else's design or on the other hand you see bad code. If you see something, say something like, which is it? Doug: 31:27 Well it comes down to a lot of what you were talking about. Do you have, um, do you have a stake in the game? Okay. If you're on the team that's making this code and it's all our code and code reviews are part of what we do, which they should be because we're a team, please. Okay. Then the reality is it is my job. It is my commandment to go ahead and do a code review to help you to improve your code, to make our code better. However, if I'm just wandering by some other team and I look over and I see their code, I, you know, I'm just a jerk. If I jumped in, Josh: 32:14 This feels to me like the backfire effect. So I'm, I'm just going to read the quote because I think the quote to me does a better job at explaining it than, than I ever could. "The backfire effect as claim to be that when in the face of contradictory evidence established beliefs do not change but actually get stronger." And so I thought, wa what? What does that mean? Like when someone lays evidence in front of you and says, Josh, the earth is not flat and I aren't, am I going to be like, Oh, Oh yeah, you're right. Or am I just going to dig in? And all joking aside, this is fundamentally the challenge I had with Mormonism. Now remember I was a practicing Mormon for 41 years, very devout, very, I'll even use the term Orthodox in my views. And when people would present contradictory information to me, I would go through a period of cognitive dissonance and then would realign the things that I thought I knew or was presented with now, uh, with the things that I did know, and I would just dig in stronger that that backfire effect is very real. And I remember a very specific case where I was in Las Vegas, had a couple stop myself and my companion when we were missionaries and invite us over. They said, Hey, we want to share some information with you. You know, we had a great discussion and we said, do you have any questions? And then they drop some questions on me that at 19 years old I had never heard in my entire life, but my, my response was to just dig in. So I mean, how, how do we prevent this backfire effect in our careers because it, if it happens, it is downright toxic. So how do we stop this backfire effect in our career? Leon: 34:17 One point that was clarified in that definition, um, is that this the backfire effect doesn't occur when you say your right blinker is broken. You know, it doesn't occur when you say, you know, we're out of Frosted Flakes, Lucky Charms will be fine or whatever. It only occurs when you are, um, providing contradictory evidence to somebody's deepest held beliefs to the things that they feel are central or core to who they are. So, you know, to take some hot button issues, tabs versus spaces, you know, Doug is making...[laughter] Doug: 34:57 Don't go there! Leon: 35:06 You know how to pronounce the Graphics Interchange Format, abbreviation. Josh: 35:10 Um, you obviously do not know how I feel about Lucky Charms cause you brought that up at the beginning and we come to the flippant thing and I just... Leon: 35:22 Right, I've lost you. Right? Again, you're digging in like now it's like honey, buy 10 more boxes! Right? So it's, it is when we challenged somebody's deepest held beliefs, which means that we have an obligation when we are offering correction, whether it's in our religious, moral, ethical communities or in our it communities to understand other people's motivations that, you know, are you just saying, you know, I really think that a for loop is going to work better here. You know, or does this person for whatever reason, have a deeply held belief that you know, case, you know, that the switch construct is really fundamentally better in some way. Josh: 35:58 I mean, data doesn't lie. I would say run them head to head. I mean that's just me, right? I, I, I have, I've built my entire career off of being wrong or more correctly. I have built my entire career off of not knowing. My, my second job in IT was given to me because I said, I don't know. Um, I mean for, for me, it, there are a few times that this Backfire Effect has, has gripped me and made me into a monster. But by and large, I I think as IT professionals, we need to be open to being taught more often than we need to then we need to teach. Doug: 36:42 Although one should point out that a Canadian monster is like, you know, still a fluffy puppy. Leon: 36:47 It's still the stay Puft marshmallow man that is literally the, you know, the embodiment of the Canadian Monster. Josh: 36:54 Snuffaluffagus? That's the Canadian monster. Leon: 36:54 Rampaging Snuffaluffagus. Right. So, uh, yeah, but again, I think that Josh, your point is well taken that, that we as it professionals need to remember to be flexible to remember that we are lifelong learners. At the same time, what we're talking about is when we ourselves are confronting somebody else who may not have come to terms with that. And when we see that we are challenging, again, not their belief in which, you know, code editor they should use, although that can be a religious war also. Um, I'm just picking them today when they're, you know, it's, I'll just be generic when, when it's not when we're picking something trivial or minor, but rather when we're picking something that is a foundational belief that that Backfire Effect comes to being that we need to possibly use all the structures that we just talked about, about who's the person to deliver that message and how that message can be delivered so that the person can hear it in the right way that it's meant and that they can grow and improve. Doug: 38:02 As a senior dev. A lot of the work that I've had to do on teams is basically to coach junior devs. And the hardest part of that is that they're just so darn enthusiastic. Um, there they just be a little more jaded. Well, I mean the PR and the thing, I had one guy that just would not code out. It was crap code, but boy, he'd get it out fast. And so, you know, the trick then was to go ahead and help him, him to improve, to give him reasons why there are better ways to go ahead and do this. Speed is not the only thing that you worry about. And, but without breaking his little spirit, you know, and it's just, you know, it's the, it's exactly the, you know, there are steps that you go through where you're just saying, okay, how am I going to phrase this in a way that is not critical, but they can see that there's a room for improvement that they can then possibly grab hold of it. And so, you know, your goal then is as a coach to go ahead and help them become a better developer without having them hate you. In the meantime. Destiny: 39:06 Thanks for making time for us this week to hear more of Technically Religious visit our website, TechnicallyReligious.com where you can find our other episodes, leave us ideas for future discussions, and connect to us on social media Josh: 39:19 In the Bible, Matthew records by their fruits, you shall know them. Doug: 39:23 So ironically, we're not supposed to be judges, but we're supposed to be fruit inspectors?!? Josh: 39:29 Doug, are you looking at my melons? Leon: 39:32 [Laughter] I cannot be having this conversation.

Brothers Phil & Warren heat 'em up for a deep dive into the cult classic comedy, Ivan Reitman’s "Ghostbusters". Topics include: Dan Aykroyd’s unique premise & initial concept (0:50), the script’s drastic changes & inspirations (4:15), the iconic design elements (11:35), stats & accolades (16:40), the stars of the picture (23:00), best scenes & lines (31:40), recasting the movie today (41:05), and the film’s legacy & lore (55:20), plus much more.

Brothers Phil & Warren heat 'em up for a deep dive into the cult classic comedy, Ivan Reitman’s "Ghostbusters". Topics include: Dan Aykroyd’s unique premise & initial concept (0:50), the script’s drastic changes & inspirations (4:15), the iconic design elements (11:35), stats & accolades (16:40), the stars of the picture (23:00), best scenes & lines (31:40), recasting the movie today (41:05), and the film’s legacy & lore (55:20), plus much more.

If you like some fun banter and a chat about Guinness World Records, this ep's for you! Recorded on location at The Dog Haus in Rancho Cucamonga at Victoria Gardens, this one features my friend Puft trying to answer 11 Qs from one of my live nights. He's a little drunk but oh-so-fun, and he nails a lot of them! What's your favorite world record? THE FIRST TRIVIA QUESTION STARTS AT 03:56. Puft on Instagram:  www.instagram.com/thetravelerhascome Theme song by www.soundcloud.com/Frawsty http://TriviaWithBudds.com http://Facebook.com/TriviaWithBudds http://Twitter.com/ryanbudds http://Instagram.com/ryanbudds Book a party, corporate event, or fundraiser anytime by emailing ryanbudds@gmail.com or use the contact form here: https://www.triviawithbudds.com/contact SUPPORT THE SHOW! New PATREON page is up at: www.Patreon.com/TriviaWithBudds Send me your questions and I'll read them/answer them on the show. Also send me any topics you'd like me to cover on future episodes, anytime! Cheers. 

In This Week’s Show, episode 86, Tennessee’s Tramps trample Al’Taayb’s tits with Trumps Texas Trouser Tech.

THIS EPISODE WE TALK ABOUT… - Paul Rudd - Agents of Shield Characters - Frank Miller Wired Article - DC Multiversity 99 cent sale - Tribes - The Only Living Boy - DC Bombshell: Stargirl - Grim Fandango - Battlefield: Hardline - Mario Kart Benz - Jimmy Fallon - Golden Eye - TMNT Documentary - Ghostbusters / TMNT cover - Mr. Stay Puft on NBC ---------------- iTUNES https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/montes-mayhem/id808500645?mt=2 WEBSITES www.MontesMayhem.com www.KumaKreations.com YOUTUBE http://www.youtube.com/MontesMayhem https://www.youtube.com/KumaKreationsEnt FACEBOOK www.facebook.com/MontesMayhem www.facebook.com/KumaKreations TWITTER @MontesMayhem @KumaKreations INSTAGRAM http://instagram.com/montesmayhem http://instagram.com/KumaKreations TWITCH http://www.twitch.tv/kumakreations EMAIL MontesMayhem@Gmail.com QuanBSamurai@KumaKreations.com HIRE KUMA!!! http://xmasarts.com/kuma/

Ten months in the making, it is finally here! Our Halloween 2012 episode! As explained at the start of the podcast, the scheduling of this episode was derailed a bit by Hurricane/Superstorm Sandy, and holidays, and moving, etc. And since it was more important to try to keep new episodes on schedule, the editing of this episode fell by the wayside. But the wait is over! As usual, KC and I talk about our favorite lines, characters, scenes, and supernatural creatures in the film. We also ponder Ghostbusters II, complain about the state of commercially-available Halloween costumes, praise the cultural pervasiveness of this franchise, and discuss the state of comedy genre films.  This episode carries an explicit tag for some mild swearing in audio clips used. Theme music for Anomaly Supplemental is used by permission of Marian Call (www.mariancall.com). Have something to say? Email us at moregirlygeekz(at)gmail.com or call and leave us a voicemail at 248-419-GEEK (4335).