Podcasts about Mob

Earl Thomas returns to the show, looking back on a whirlwind couple of months that saw him honored as a Seattle Seahawks top 50 player, raising the 12th Man flag alongside Kam Chancellor, and making another run as a Hall of Fame semifinalist. Earl shares his thoughts on the current Seahawks defense, the new "MOB" nickname, and which players he would draft to the Legion of Boom. Looking ahead, Thomas offers candid thoughts on the team's playoff push, the importance of resilience, and taking on a role a mentor and ambassador. Join our Sea Hawkers Podcast Pickem League - free prizes for weekly winners. Support the show Get in the Flock! Visit GetInTheFlock.com Or visit our website for other ways to support the show Subscribe via: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | YouTube | TuneIn | RSS Follow us on: Facebook | Twitter Listen on our free app for Android, iOS, Kindle or Windows Phone/PC Call or text: 253-235-9041 Find Sea Hawkers clubs around the world at SeaHawkers.org Music from the show by The 12 Train, download each track at ReverbNation  

In this gripping episode of Gangland Wire, host Gary Jenkins sits down with Robert “Bob” Cooley, the Chicago lawyer whose extraordinary journey took him from deep inside the Outfit's criminal operations to becoming one of the federal government's most valuable witnesses against organized crime. Cooley pulls back the curtain on the hidden machinery of Chicago's underworld, describing how corruption, bribery, and violence shaped the Chicago Outfit's power in the 1970s and beyond. As a lawyer, gambler, and trusted insider, Cooley saw firsthand how mob influence tilted the scales of justice—often in open daylight. Inside the “Chicago Method” of Courtroom Corruption Cooley explains the notorious system of judicial bribery he once helped facilitate—what he calls the “Chicago Method.” He walks listeners through: How defense attorneys worked directly with Outfit associates to buy favorable rulings. The process of approaching and bribing judges. Why weak forensic standards of the era made witness discrediting the key mob strategy. His personal involvement in the infamous Harry Aleman murder case, where clear guilt was erased by corruption. Life in the Outfit: Gambling, Debt, and Mob Justice Cooley recounts his early days gambling with Chicago Outfit associates, including Marco D'Amico, Jackie Cerrone, and John DeFranzo. Notable stories include: The violent implications of unpaid gambling debts in mob circles. Tense interactions with bookmaker Hal Smith and the chaotic fallout of a bounced check involving mobster Eddie Corrado. How D'Amico often stepped in—sometimes with intimidation—to shield Cooley from harm. These stories reflect the daily volatility of life inside the Outfit, where money, fear, and loyalty intersect constantly. Bob Cooley has a great book titled When Corruption Was King where he goes into even greater detail and has many more stories from his life inside the Chicago Mob. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. 0:06 Introduction to Bob Cooley 1:32 Life as an Outfit Gambler 2:00 My Relationship with Marco D’Amico 10:40 The Story of Hal Smith 11:05 A Dangerous Encounter 20:21 Meeting Sally D 22:23 A Contract on My Life 22:37 The Harry Alleman Case 34:47 Inside the Courtroom 51:08 The Verdict 52:26 Warning the Judge 53:49 The Case Against the Policewoman 58:36 Navigating the Legal Maze 1:08:14 The Outcome and Its Consequences 1:11:39 The Decision to Flip 1:24:38 A Father’s Influence 1:33:57 The Corruption Revealed 1:50:12 Political Connections 2:02:07 The Setup for Robbery 2:20:29 Consequences of Loyalty transcript [0:00] Hey, guys, my guest today is a former Chicago outfit associate named Robert Bob Cooley. He has a book out there titled When Corruption Was King. I highly recommend you get it if you want to look inside the Chicago outfit of the 1970s. Now, Bob’s going to tell us about his life as an outfit gambler, lawyer, and I use payoff to judges to get many, many not guilty verdicts. Now, I always call this the Chicago method. This happened for, I know, for Harry Ailman, a case we’re going to talk about, Tony Spolatro got one of these not-guilties. Now, the outfit member associate who is blessed to get this fix put in for him may be charged with a crime, even up to murder. And he gets a lawyer, a connected lawyer, and they’ll demand a bench trial. That means that only a judge makes the decision. A lawyer, like my guest, who worked with a political fixer named Pat Marcy. [0:53] They’ll work together and they’ll get a friendly judge assigned to that case and then they’ll bribe the judge. And all that judge needs is some kind of alibi witnesses and any kind of information to discredit any prosecution witnesses. Now, this is back in the olden days before you had all this DNA and all that kind of thing. So physical evidence was not really a part of it. Mainly, it was from witnesses. And they just have to discredit any prosecution witness. Then the judge can say, well, state hadn’t really proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt and issue a not guilty verdict and walk away. Now, our guest, Bob Cooley, is going to take us inside this world. [1:29] And it’s a world of beatings, murders, bribes, and other kinds of plots. He was a member of the Elmwood Park crew. He was a big gambler. He was a big loan shark. And he worked for a guy named Marco D’Amico, who was their gambling boss and loan shark in that crew. Among other bosses in this powerful crew were Jackie Cerrone, who will go on and become the underboss and eventually the boss for a short [1:55] period of time. and John no-nose DeFranzo, who will also go on to become the boss eventually. What was your relationship with Marco D’Amico? I talked about when I first came into the 18th district, when I came into work there, and they put me back in uniform, the first person I met was Rick Borelli. Rick Borelli, he was Marco’s cousin. [2:23] When I started gambling right away with Rick, within a couple of days, I’m being his face, and I’m calling and making bets. There was a restaurant across the street where every Wednesday and sometimes a couple days a week, I would meet with Ricky. And one of the first people he brought in there was Marco. Was Marco. And Marco would usually be with a person or two. And I thought they were just bookmakers. [2:55] And I started being friendly with him, meeting him there. Then I started having card games Up in my apartment And, Because now I’m making, in the very beginning, I’m making first $100 extra a week. And within a couple of weeks, I’m making $500, $600 extra a week. And within about a month, I’m making $1,000, sometimes more than that. So now I’m having card games, relatively big card games, because I’ve got a bankroll. I’ve got probably about $5,000, $6,000, which seemed like a lot of money to me. Initially uh and after a while that was a daily that was a daily deal but uh so we we started having card games up there and then we started socializing we started now he’d be at these nightclubs all the time when when i’d go to make my payoffs he was part of the main group there he was one of the call he was right he was right under jack right under at that time originally Jackie Cerrone, and then he was right under Johnny DeFranco. [4:07] But he was… And we became real good friends. We would double date and we spent a lot of time together. And we had these big card games. And that’s when I realized how powerful these people were. Because after one of the card games, there was somebody that was brought in, a guy named Corrado. I’m pretty sure his name was I can’t think of his first name, but Corrado was this person that somebody brought into the game. And after we finished playing cards, and I won all the time. I mean, I was a real good card player, and I wouldn’t drink. I’d supply liquor and food and everything, but I wouldn’t drink. And as the others drank, they were the same as at my office. After we finish up, this guy says, you want to play some? We can play maybe some gin. just human being. And he was there with another friend of his who just sat there and watched. So we played, not gin, but blackjack. We played and passed cards back and forth when you win. Then you’re the dealer and back and forth. And I lost, I think I lost about $4,000 or $13,000 to him. [5:26] I lost the cash that I had. I had cash about $5,000 or $6,000. And I gave him a check for the rest. You know, but everything I was doing was wrong, you know. Yeah, one of those nights. It’s in there. And it’s funny because you asked about Marco. [5:47] And I thought, you know, oh, well, and whatever. And I gave him a check. I said, no, it’s a good check. And it was. It was for my office. It was an office check that I gave him. And that next morning, I’m meeting with Ricky and with Marco at this restaurant across from the station before I go in and to work. And I said, son of a B. I said, you know, they had a bad night first ever. Marco wasn’t at that game, at that particular game. And what happened? I said, I blew about 12,000. Okay, but you? Wow. And I said, yeah, I said, one of the guys at the game played some, I played some blackjack with somebody. What was his name? Eddie, Eddie Corrado. Eddie Corrado. He said, that mother, he said, stop payment on the check. He said, stop payment on the check. He said, because it wasn’t nine o’clock. It was only like, you know, seven, you know, seven 30 or whatever. He said, and when he gets ahold of you, arrange to have him come to your house. Tell him you’ll have the money for him at your house. So that’s what I, that’s what I do. So I stopped payment on it probably about five after nine. I get a call from, from Mr. Corrado. You mother fucker. [7:17] I said, no, no. I said, there wasn’t enough money in the account. I said, I’m sorry. I said, all right, then I’ll be over. I said, no, no, no. I said, I’m in court right now. I said, I’m in court. I said, I’m going to be tied up all day. I’ll meet you at my place. I’ll meet you back there. Well, I’ll be there. You better have that. I want cash and you better have it. Okay. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m at home. Marco comes in. And he was there with Tony and Tony was there and Ricky was there. And Ricky was there. And they come over a little ahead of time and he comes in. I live on the 27th floor. The doorbell rings. Up he comes with some big mustache. [8:00] I open the door. You better have the fucking money and whatever. And I try to look nervous. I try to look real nervous. and when you walk into my apartment you walk in and you see the kitchen right in front of you and to the left to the left you’ve got an area away and you’ve got the the kitchen wall blocking what’s behind it over there and these three guys are standing marco and you are standing right there alongside of it and and when he walks in behind me, He sees Marco and all but shit in his pants. When he sees Marco, he goes, and Marco, you motherfucker. And, you know, oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I didn’t know he was with you. He says, how much money you got me right now? And, you know, he says, pull your pockets out. He had about, he had about three or 4,000 with him. [9:02] And he says, you give him that. He says, you, he says, you, and he says, you give him that right now. And you apologize to him. Oh, and he says, he says, and I may give you a number. I want you to call. He says, we can put you to work. Apparently this guy had done the same thing to them a few years before and got the beating of his life somebody brought him into one of their card games, did he have a technique a cheating technique or had some marked cards no it was a card mechanic he could play games with cards they call him a mechanic and, in fact the guy was great at it because he had his own plane and everything else. But again, he had moved from Chicago and had just come back in the area. And they mounted. And so anyhow, he leaves. And he leaves then, and Marco took the money. Marco took the money. Marco took the money. Typical Bob guy, man. [10:19] And I says, what about the cash I lost to him? He says, well, you lost that. He says, you lost that. That’s when I realized how powerful. That’s when I realized how powerful that [10:35] he was part of the mob, not only a part of it, but one of the operational. Yeah, important part of it. That brings to mind another unbelievable situation that occurred. [10:49] The, uh, this is probably the, we’ll know the year by when it happened. There was a bookmaker named Hal Smith. Oh yeah. I remember that name. He got, tell us about Hal Smith. [11:05] Well, Hal Smith was a, he was a big guy too. A real, a real big guy. I met him on Rush street. He knew I was a gambler. He knew that I was a big gambler and I started gambling with him. Thank you. And I was with him probably for about maybe five or six months. And I’d win with him. I’d lose with him. And he would take big places. He would take $5,000 a game for me. And as they say, so the numbers were big. At the end of the week, we were sometimes $60,000, $70,000. [11:42] They were big numbers back and forth. And he was always good for the money. I was always good for the money. And one particular week, it was about $30,000. And I was waiting for money. Somebody else was supposed to give me even more than that. And the person put me off. And it was a good friend of mine. And I knew the money would be there. But a lot of times, these guys are going to collect it at a certain time. And then they’re expecting to give it to somebody else. Well, he was short. So I said, look, I don’t have it right now, but I’ll have it tomorrow, I said, because I’m meeting somebody. Well, okay, it better be there. [12:31] And look, it’ll be there, okay? Not a problem. So the next day, the person I’m supposed to get it from says, I’ll have it in a couple of hours. I don’t have it right now, but I’ll have it by late this afternoon. And I’m in my office when Hale Smith calls me and I said, I’ll have it a little bit later. And he slams the phone bell. I’m downstairs in Counselor’s Row. In fact, I’m meeting with Butchie and Harry. We’re in a booth talking about something. They had just sent me some business or whatever, but I’m talking about something. And George, the owner of the restaurant, comes over and he says, somebody is asking who you are and they want to talk to you. And they point out this guy. It was a guy I had seen before, because a lot of times at two in the morning, I would go down on West Street, and they had entertainment upstairs. And there was this big English guy. He was an English guy, as you could tell by his accent, a real loud guy. And when I walk up to talk to him, and he’s talking loud enough so people can hear him, and he says, you better have that. I’m here for it. You better have that. You better have that money. [13:51] Bob Hellsmith sent me, you get the money and you better have that money or there’s going to be a problem or whatever. And I said, well, the money will be there, but people can hear what this guy, this guy talking that shit. And he leaves. And he leaves. He’s going to call me back. And he leaves. I said, I’m busy right now. I says, give me a call back when I’m in the office and I’ll meet with you. So Butch, he goes, what was that all about? And I said, you know, it’s somebody I owe some money to. Well, who is he? Who is he with? I said, Harold Smith. And he said, who’s Harold Smith? You don’t pay him anything. He said, you don’t pay him anything. And he calls, when he calls back, he says, you will arrange to meet him. And I said, you know, I said, well, where? [14:44] And they knew where I lived. They’d been to my place at that time. I’m living in Newberry Plaza and they said, there’s a, there’s a Walgreens drugstore in Chicago Avenue. Tell him you’ll meet him there at Walgreens, and we’ll take it. And he says, and we’ll take it from there. When he does call me, I said, look, I said, I’ll meet you tomorrow morning for sure at Walgreens. I’ll have the cash. I said, I’ll have the cash, and I’ll have all of it. I said, but, you know, I’m tied up on some things. I said, I’ll go to my own bank when I’m finished here and whatever, and I’ll see you tomorrow morning for sure at 9 o’clock tomorrow morning. Okay. I sit down with them and they just said, I said, they said, go there and go meet them. And we’ll take care of it. The Walgreens is a store right in the corner of Michigan Avenue and Chicago Avenue, south side of the street. And it’s all windows. Huge windows here. Huge windows here. And a bus stop, a bus stop over here. When I get there, I park in the bus stop and I’m looking to my right and here he is sitting in a booth by himself, right by the window. And I look around and I don’t see anybody. I mean, with a lot of people, I don’t see Butchie. [16:06] Uh or red or anybody around but i i go in there anyhow and uh sit down and i uh sit down in the booth across from him and he’s eating breakfast he’s got some food in front of him and uh the girl comes by right away the girl comes by and i says you know just get me a coke and and he says have you got the money and i said yes and why i got i got a lot i got a lot of money in my pocket but not the, whatever it was he wanted, not the 27 or 28,000. There’s nobody there. And, uh, so we’re talking for no more than about two or three minutes. They had a telephone on the counter. I hear the phone ring and the waitress, the waitress is on the phone. And then she comes walking over and she says, it’s a call for you. And, and when I go get in the phone, I woke up and there’s a phone booth there. And here’s Butchie in the phone booth. And he’s there with a couple of other people. I hang the phone up. I walk over and I had my appointment booked. And I walk over and I just pick up the book. And as I’m walking out there, walking in, we pass each other. And so now when I get in my car and he’s looking at me in my car and right next to him is Butchie. And across from him was a red old male and Fat Herbie. [17:34] Herbie Blitzstein? Herbie Blitzstein? No, it wasn’t Herbie. This is another one. That’s one thing of Herbie. We called Herbie Fat. It was Fat Herbie. And the third guy is like sitting facing him. This is like, that weighs about 300 pounds. Oh, Sarno. Make Mike Sarno. Mike Sarno. That was it. And that’s, that’s, that’s who it was. You know, and I, I drive off, go to my office and go about my business. I get a call later that day from, uh, Hale Smith. Where’s my money? Where’s my money? I said, I gave it to your guy. You what? I gave it to him. I met him at nine o’clock this morning and I gave him the money. You did. And I said, yeah. Um, okay. And he hangs, and he hangs up. I don’t hear anything for a while. I never saw him again. I saw Hale a couple of times because he was always in one of the other restaurants. I lived in Newberry right across from there, but he never talked to me. I never talked to him, never said anything. It was about maybe it had to be a good couple of months later, When I read about Hale, Hale’s no longer with us. [18:52] That’s obviously how they found out about him. I never saw the other guy again. I’m hoping they didn’t kill him, but I’m assuming that’s what probably happened to him. In a public place like that, they probably just scared him off. He probably said, you know, I’m way over my head. I’m out of here. [19:15] They didn’t kill him in the public place he wouldn’t have been in the newspapers my little thought is like with the three guys they took him for a ride, I don’t know they just told him to leave town and he realized what it was and he did Hal didn’t get a chance to leave town Hal had other problems if I remember right I’d have to look it back up but he had other problems with the outfit what I found out later what they had done, was they had gotten one of their guys connected with him to find out who his customers were. In other words, one of the other people that he didn’t realize, that Hale didn’t realize was with them, they got him connected with them where he’s the one who’s doing his collecting and finding out who the customers were because they wanted to get all his customers as well as his money. It turns out he was He was a huge bookmaker for years. That’s what happened to him. And they just took his book. Yeah, I remember something about that story because I killed him in his house, I believe. Yeah, Sally D. [20:22] Sally D, yeah. Sally D was one. When I first met Sally D, he was with Marco’s Fruit, too. [20:30] He owned a pizza place up on the north side, north shore, and I broke him. I was betting with him and beating him week after week. And one of the last times I played with him, he couldn’t come up with the money. It took him an extra couple of weeks to get the cash to pay me. But we were real close friends with him. He’s a bizarre character because he was a totally low level at that time. Yeah. When he then connected up with the Cicero crew, with Rocky and Felice, with Rocky and those people, he became a boss with them. It turns out it was after they killed Al Smith. He was part of all that. That’s Salih De Laurentiis. He’s supposed to be a boss. He moved on up after the Family Secrets trial. He didn’t go down with that, I believe, and he kind of moved on up after that. I don’t know what happened to him. What was so funny about that, when he would come into the club, Marco’s club, Bobby Abinati. [21:42] Who was strictly a very low-level player, although we indicted him with the Gambia star. He’s the one who set up the robbery. Would that have been great if that would have gone through? He’s the one who set up that robbery in Wisconsin. He’d be making fun of Salihide all the time. [22:03] When Salihide would come in, he would make fun of him and joke about him and talk about what a loser he was. This is when he’s a boss of that crew. I mean, just a strange, I mean, nobody talked to bosses like that, especially when, when you’re, when you’re what they call Bobby, you know, what was Marco’s nickname for Bobby Knucklehead? [22:23] That was his nickname, Knucklehead. Pat Marcy, uh, contacted me about, you know, handling me in the only own case. [22:32] I couldn’t have been happier because that was a short time after they put a contract on me. So now i realized if they’re going to be making money you know they finally stopped because for good six seven months when i when i came back to chicago uh i was checking under my car every day in case there was a bomb i moved i moved from uh from a place that i own in the suburbs into an apartment complex so i wouldn’t be living on the first floor yeah it’d be impossible to somebody to break into my, you know, took them thrashing into my place. I changed my whole life around in that sense. [23:10] And when I drove everywhere I went, you know, I would go on the highway and then jump over. I would do all, I wanted to make absolutes. Even though nobody came around, I wasn’t taking any chances for a long period of time. And that was too when it cost me a fortune because that’s when I stopped dealing with the bookmakers because I wasn’t going to be in a position where I had to go meet somebody at any time to collect my money and whatever. [23:39] So what had happened, though, was somebody came to see me. And when I was practicing, there’s a lot of things I wouldn’t do. I set my own rules. I would not get involved. After the Harry Alleman case, I never got involved anymore myself fixing certain cases. But even prior to that, I wouldn’t fix certain cases. I wouldn’t get involved in certain cases, especially involving the police, because my father was such a terrific policeman, and I felt I was too in a lot of sentences. I loved the police. I disliked some of the crooked cops that I knew, but on the surface, I’d be friendly with them, etc. Harry Ailman was a prolific hitman for the Elmwood Park crew. He killed a teamster who wouldn’t help set up trucks for the outfit, a guy named Billy Logan. He was just a regular guy. He’s going to take us right into the meeting with the judge. He’ll take us into a counselor’s row restaurant where these cases were fixed. Now, Bob will give us a seat right at Pat Marcy’s table. Now, Pat Marcy was the first ward fixture, and he’s going to take us into the hallway with Pat Marcy where they made the payoffs. [24:57] Now, Bob, can you take us inside the famous Harry Aileman murder case? I know you fixed it. And tell us, you know, and I know there was a human toll that this took on that corrupt judge, Frank Wilson. Okay. The Harry Aileman case was, it was not long after I became partners with Johnny DeArco. I get a call from, I’m in Counselor’s Row at the restaurant. Whenever I was in there now, my spot was the first ward table. Nobody was allowed to sit there day or night. That was reserved for first ward connected people and only the top group of people. [25:40] I’m sitting there at the table and Johnny DeArco Sr. Tells me, you know, Pat wants to talk to you. About something. And I said, you know, sure. Not long afterwards, Pat comes downstairs. We go out. We go out in the hall because we never talk at the table. And he tells me, have you got somebody that can handle the Harry Alleman case? I had seen in the news, he was front page news. He was one of the main mob hitmen. He was partners with Butchie Petrucelli. But it was common knowledge that he was a hitman. He looked like one. He dressed like one. He acted like one. And whatever. And he was one. In fact, he was the one that used to go to New York. And I know he also went to Arizona to do some hits and whatever. He traveled around the country. I said to Pat, they thought the case was a mob hit on a team street. a teamster. I assumed that it was just that. It was people doing what they do. But I said to Pat, I said, well, get me the file. Get me the file. Let me see what the case looks like. Because I would never put a judge in a bad spot. That was my nature. [27:06] When I had cases, a lot of these judges were personal friends of mine. What I would do, if I wanted to have a case, if I wanted to fix a case to save all the time of having to go to a damn long trial, I would make sure that it was a case that was winnable, easily winnable. When I got the file, when I got the file from Pat, he got me the file the next day. The next morning, when he came in, he gave me the file. I looked at the file. It was a throw-out case. When I say throw-out case, absolutely a nothing case. [27:46] The records in the file showed that a car drove up down the street. Suddenly somebody with a shotgun blasted a guy named Billy Logan in front of his house and drove away. They were contacted by a neighbor, this guy, Bobby Lowe. Was it Bobby Lowe? Yeah, I’m pretty sure Bobby Lowe. Who indicated that he opened the door and let his dog run out. And when he looked, he saw somebody. He saw a car, and he gave a description of the car. And he saw somebody pull up, and he saw him shoot with a shotgun. And then he saw the person get out of the car and shoot him with a .45, and shoot him with a .45. And then the car sped away. That was pretty much the case. Some other people heard some noise, looked out, and saw a car driving away. A period of time after that, it had to be about a year or so after that, somebody was arrested driving to Pennsylvania to kill somebody. There was a guy who stopped. [29:16] Louie Almeida was his name. Louie Almeida was stopped in his car. He was on the way to Pennsylvania. And in front of his car, he had shotguns. And he winds up, when he gets arrested, he winds up telling the authorities that he can tell them about a mob murder back in Chicago and winds up cooperating with them. He indicates what happened. He indicated that, you know, he was asked to, you know, or he got involved in it. He got the car and whatever. They did this. They did that. And he pulled up alongside Billy and wound up shooting the victim as he came out of the house. [30:09] Now, I look at some other reports in there, some reports that were made out, new reports. They talk about the Louis Almeida. They talk about the witness that gave the first statement. and they said that they found, or he’s giving us a new statement now where he says he’s walking his dog. He hears a shotgun. His dog runs towards the car where the shooting was coming from. He saw Harry get out of the car and walk over and shoot him, walk over and shoot the victim, and he was looking at him, And then he jumped in the bushes and the car drove away. A complete new story. Yeah. A complete new story. And. I looked at the reports, and this is an easy winner. And so I told Pat, you know, I’ll take it. You know, I’m sure I can handle it. I said, I’m sure I can handle it, but, you know, I’ll let you know. [31:21] That’s when I contacted, I met my restaurant, Greco’s, and I had Frank Wilson there a lot. Well, I called Frank Wilson, invited him and his wife to come to the restaurant. I had done that many times before. When he gets there, I tell him, I have the case. You know, I told him I was contacted on this case, I said. And I said, it’s an easy winner, I said. And I explained to him what it was. I told him, you know, it’s the driver of the car who’s doing this to help himself. And this other guy, Bobby Lowe, that gave a complete new story from the original story that he gave. And I indicated, you know, can you handle the case? And he tells me, I can’t handle the case, he said, because I was SOJ’d. In Chicago, Illinois, they have a rule that makes it easy for people to fool around because for no reason at all you can ask to have a judge moved off the case. And you can name a second judge that you don’t want to handle the case. [32:34] Frank Wilson’s reputation was as such that the lawyer that turned out to be a judge later on, Tom Maloney, who had the case, named him in the SOJ. It was assigned to somebody else, and he indicated he wanted any other judge except Frank Wilson. Frank Wilson on the case. And this was Harry Aileman’s lawyer. Yeah. Okay. And who Tom Maloney, who then ends up being the judge years later. But yeah. Well, because we knew he was going to be a judge. Yeah. We knew ahead of time. I knew at that time. That’s what makes the story so unbelievably interesting. Yeah. Anyhow, he says, I can’t do it because… In Chicago, in Chicago, it’s supposed to keep it honest. I love this. To keep it honest. Yeah. To keep it honest, each judge is supposed to be picked by computer. [33:33] Same thing they’re doing to this day. Trump wondered why the same judge kept getting all his cases. Because they’re doing the same thing we did, some of us could do in Chicago. He was the chief judge in the area. he said to me, I don’t think I can get the case. I don’t think I can’t get the case. I said, I’ll get the case to you. I said, I’ll get, because I already, I, in fact, through Pat Marcy, anytime I wanted a case to go anywhere, I would contact Pat and I’d give him a thousand dollars and he would get me any judge I wanted. Uh, I said, well, I think I can. I said, I said, And I gave him $1,000. [34:16] I said, here, this is yours. And if I can’t get the case to you, you keep it. If I can’t get, I never said to him, will you fix it? Will you this or that? I mean, he understood what it was. I didn’t know how he would react to it. When I asked him, would you handle it? Were the words I used. I had never fixed anything with him before. [34:43] In case he was, you know, he would want to report it to somebody. I wasn’t worried because Frank had a reputation as being a big drinker. After I got the Harry Elliman file, Pat tells me, I’m going to have somebody come and talk to you. Who comes? And we meet in the first ward office, and then we go downstairs into the special room they had for conversations. It’s Mike Ficarro. He’s the head of the organized crime section. He’s the one who prosecutes all the criminals. He’s one of the many prosecutors in Chicago. That’s why there were over 1,000 mob murders and never a conviction from the time of Al Capone. Not a single conviction with over 1,000 mob murders because they controlled absolutely everything. He’s the boss. [35:35] I knew him. I didn’t like him. He had an attitude about him. You know, when I would see him at parties and when I’d see him at other places, and I’d walk by and say, hi, he just seemed coldish. [35:47] I found out later why. He was jealous of the relationship I had with all these people. [35:54] He says, I’ll help you any way I can, anything you need, whatever. So the prosecutors on the Harry Olliman case were our people. That’s who’s prosecuting the case anyhow. But they couldn’t get one of their judges apparently who would handle the case. So, but anyhow, uh, so, uh, when we, um, when we go, when we, when we go to trial, um. [36:25] Before to help me out, I told Pat, I’ll get somebody else to handle the case. I’ll have somebody else. I said, I won’t go in there. I won’t go in there because everybody knows I’m close to Frank, very close to Frank. I said, so I won’t go in there. I’ll get somebody. He says, no, no. He said, I’ll get somebody. And so he gets a guy named Frank Whalen, who I didn’t know at the time. He was a retired lawyer from Chicago. He was one of the mob lawyers. [37:00] He was one of the mob lawyers. And he lived in Florida. He lived in Miami. I think it was, no, Lauderdale. He lived in the Lauderdale area. He was practicing there. So I fly out. I fly out to meet him. I i do all the investigating in the case the i’m using an investigator that harry alleman got from me in fact he was the same investigator that got in trouble in in uh in in hollywood for what for a lot of stuff i can’t think of his name right now but he’s the one who got indicted in hollywood eventually for you know wiretapping people and whatever it was the same one. And he got me information on Bobby on this Bobby Lowe. He found out Bobby Lowe, Bobby Lowe was a drug addict. [37:59] When the FBI got a hold of him, Bobby Lowe was living out in the street because he had been fired from his first job. He had a job in some kind of an ice cream company where they made ice cream, and he got fired there for stealing. And then he had a job after that in a gas station, and he faked a robbery there. Apparently, what he did was he called the police and said he had been robbed. This is before they had cameras and all the rest of that stuff. He said he had been robbed. And somebody happened to have been in the gas station getting gas. It was a big place, apparently. [38:45] And when the police talked to him, he said, I didn’t see anything strange. He said, I saw the attendant walk out to the back about 10, 15 minutes ago. I saw him walk out to the back of the place and then come back in. And so they go out, and he had his car parked behind it, and they found the money that was supposed to have been stolen in the car. So not the best witness, in other words. Well, that’s an understatement, because that was why… That was why now he suddenly shows up, and they know all this. The FBI agents that obviously know all this, that’s their witness. That’s their case. To me, it’s an airtight, you know. Yeah. Anyhow, I developed the defense. I went back to see Frank a second time. I flew out to Florida a second time, gave him all this information. [39:48] I had talked to some other people to a number of people that were going to indicate that Harry played golf with them that day see how they remembered not golf but he was at a driving range with them with about five people they remember what they were three or four years three or four years before that what I also found out now, and I didn’t know and it changed my whole attitude on that this wasn’t a mob killing you, This guy that he killed was married to his, I think it was his cousin or some relation was married. I’m pretty sure it was to his cousin. She had told Harry, I got this from Butchie, Butchie Petrosselli, who had become a close friend of mine after I got involved with Harry’s case, his partner. And that was why he killed them, because apparently the sister, his sister-in-law, whatever she was, had told him, you know, when he was beating her up, she had said, well, my Harry Alameda won’t be happy about this. And he said, supposedly, he said, fuck that, Kenny. [41:02] And that’s why the shooting took place. Wow. This changed me. You know, I’m in the middle of it. There’s no getting out of it now. Yeah, they’ll turn it back. And by now, I’m running around all the time with Butch and Mary at night. I’m meeting them at dinner. They’re coming to one of my places where I have dinners all the time. You know, I’m becoming like close friends, close friends with both of them. Yeah. So anyhow, but anyhow, the lawyer that he got, Frank Whalen, who was supposed to be sharp, turned out like he was not in his, let’s just say he was not in his prime. [41:46] Charitable. And when he went in, you know, while the trial was going on, you know, while the trial was going on, I get a call from Frank. From Frank Wilson, because I told him, you don’t come back into the restaurant now. You don’t come back into the restaurant. I used his office as my office all the time, along with a bunch of other judges. I had a phone, but it cost about a dollar a minute to talk on my phone. I had to talk on my phone. So when I’d be at 26th Street in the courthouse, even though no lawyers are allowed back there in the chamber, so I’m back there sitting at his desk using the phone taking care of my own other business. I stopped going in there while the trial was going on. [42:35] So, anyhow, he calls me, and he wants to meet me at a restaurant over on Western Avenue. And, okay, he called me from one of the pay phones out there in front of the courthouse, and I go to meet him. What did he want? Was he complaining about the lawyer, Waylon? What was he complaining about, Waylon? and I was screwing it up. [42:59] When I meet him, I said, you know, he’s like, you know, he said, you know, we go into the bathroom and he and he said he’s all shooken up. He says, this is going to cost me my job. He said, he said, you know, they’re burying him. You’re burying him. You know, because I had given this information on the two witnesses. And he says, Frank Whalen, he said, isn’t doing a thing and cross-examining these people and whatever. [43:32] And he says, and he’s all upset. And I said, Frank, no, I’m shook up one of the few times in my life where it’s something I can’t handle. He had never told me, you know, I’ll fix the case, never. And I said to him, and I said, Frank, I said, if something goes wrong, I said, I’m sure they’re going to kill me, is what I said to him. Yeah. I said, if something goes wrong, I’m sure they’re going to kill me. And I left. I left the bathroom. Now, I have no idea what’s going on in his mind and whatever. Yeah. I see Pat the next day. And by something goes wrong in this case, you mean if he gets found guilty, that’d be what would go wrong and you would get killed. Is that that’s what you mean? Well, no question, because when I met, I didn’t go into that. I met with Harry Alleman. I get a call after I got involved in the case. A couple days later, I get a call from Markle. Meet me at one of the nightclubs where I was all the time at night with these people. [44:47] Above it, you’ve got a motel, a bunch of hotel rooms. I get a call from Markle. The reason everybody loved me and the mob, I never discussed what I was doing with anybody or any of the other dozens of mobsters I run with that I was involved in Harry’s case. Never said a word to anybody about any of this. That was my nature, and that’s why all these people love me. I never talked about one thing with anybody else or whatever. He says, I want to meet you. When I get over there, he says, let’s go upstairs. Somebody wants to talk to you. And we go upstairs, and there’s Harry Alleman. And Harry, how you doing? How are you? [45:27] And he says, listen, you’re sure about this? And I said, yeah. I said, I’m sure. And he said, well, if something goes wrong, you’re going to have a problem. Those were his words to me. You’re going to have a problem. And I said, you know, he says, because this judge, he says, this judge is a straight judge. And he said, Tom, you mean Tom Maloney. He says, and Tom wants to handle my case. And he tells me he’s going to be named a judge by the Supreme Court real soon. And he wants to handle and he wants to handle my case before he… Uh, you know, before he becomes a Supreme court, before he becomes a judge, I knew the moment he told me that I knew for sure that was the case because we control everything, including the Supreme court. I said, you know, I said, don’t, you know, don’t worry about it. I lied to him. And I said, uh, I said, yeah, the judge is going to, I said, yeah, he’s going to throw it out. He knows, I said, he knows what’ll happen if he doesn’t. That’s what I told Harry. I want to keep him happy. [46:34] I’m going to keep him happy probably for a few hours I’m a little nervous and then that’s all behind me like so many other problems I got in the middle of oh my god talking about walking a tightrope so now the lawyer came into Chicago he was in Chicago I met him when he came in he was staying at the Bismarck was at the Bismarck Hotel right around the corner from you know where Counselor’s Row was that’s where he was staying in the in the hotel right there by the first board office and there was a way to go in there without being seen and there was a, You go through another restaurant and you go through the alley and go up there. And I wouldn’t, I didn’t want to be seen walking into there because I know the FBI are probably, are probably watching and whatever. When he comes into town, they handle the case. So I go upstairs to see him. You know, I said, what the hell’s going on in court? He says, I’m going, it’s going great. It’s going great. I said, it’s going great. I just, you know, I just got a call last night. I had to go meet the judge. And he said, you’re not doing any cross-examining. Oh, I’m doing a great job. You know, I’m doing a great job. So after a few minutes of, I leave. Yeah. [47:52] That’s when I saw Pat Marcy, too. And I said, Pat, I said, the judge is upset about whatever’s going on. I said, maybe we should give him some more because I agreed to give him $10,000. And he said, you know, what a piece of work he is. You know, he said $10,000, and that’s all he’s going to get, not a nickel more or whatever. So now to say I’m nervous again is an ultra statement. The case, I walked over, and I wouldn’t go in the room, but I wanted to just be around that room for some reason. FBI agents all over the place. [48:30] FBI agents all over the place. And so now I’m at home and I’m packed. I’ve got my bags packed because if he finds it, I don’t know what he’s going to do. I’m worried he might find him guilty because of all that had happened. He, when the trial ended a given night, and the next day he was going to give the result. In fact, I didn’t go out and play that night. I was a little nervous, and I stayed home, and I packed up my bags. I packed up my bags, and about 9 o’clock, I got in the car, and I started driving. And by the time he gave the ruling, I was probably about 100, maybe 150 miles away. And I hear on the radio, you know, found him not guilty, found him not guilty. So I turn around. Hit the next exit, turn around and come back. I turn around. Northbound on I-55. [49:27] Probably a couple hours later, here I am parked in my parking spot. My parking spot was in front of my office, right across from City Hall. And I parked in the mayor’s spot when she wasn’t there. And drove probably to drive her crazy. But that was where I parked. That was my parking spot. We’d see my big car with the RJC license plates parked in the bus stop. And so here I am. I parked the car and I go in. I go in. [50:01] And I’m sure Pat told some people, probably not, but I’m sure they told all the mobsters, all the top mobsters, because these guys all wanted to meet me afterwards and get the restaurant. I go in to see them. We walked into the janitor’s closet. You walk out of Counselor’s Row. You go to the left. It goes into the 100 North Building. Now, you’ve got the elevators to the right. And behind that, you’ve got a closet where the janitors keep all their stuff. And you’ve got some stairs leading up to the, there was a, what do you call it? There was an office there where the commodities, big commodity exchange was right there. that there was a stairway leading up to where the offices were with some doors with bars and everything on it. And Pat is standing on those stairs, about two or three stairs. You know, I said, wow. I said, you know, everybody’s going nuts. And he goes, well, you know, you did a good job. And he gives me an envelope. He gives me an envelope. And, you know, I put the money in my pocket. [51:09] We said we had some more. We said a couple other words about, you know, this and that. And then I just go in there. I go back in the counselor’s. [51:21] Now, after the feds started getting indictments, did you try and warn the Aleman case judge, Frank Wilson? Why did you do that? And when I went to see Frank Wilson, I went to help him. I said, Frank, I said, look, I said, I was contacted by, I said, I was contacted by the, by the, by the FBI. They were investigating the Harry Aleman case. I said to him, I said, they, they feel the case was fixed. I said, when they come to see me, I said, you know, I said, I’m not going to talk to them. I said, I’m not going to talk to them. I’m going to take the fifth. And in your case, you can do the same thing. When they, if they come to talk to you, you just take the fifth amendment. If they give you immunity, I said, you know, then you, then you testify, but you tell them the truth. I said, don’t worry about me. Tell them the truth. This is how I talk to him. When I’m talking to him like that, it’s almost like he’s trying to run away from me. [52:27] We’re at a restaurant in a big complex. It was in one of those resorts in Arizona. He’s all but running away from me. I was trying to help him. What I said to him was, Frank, I said, the statute of limitations ran on all this. It’s been more than five years. There’s nothing they can do to you or to me, I said, because the statute ran. I said, so don’t lie to them. What the feds were concerned about, and I don’t know why, that he would deny ever fixing the case when it went through. I don’t know why they’re worried about that, but they were, and I didn’t want to see him get in trouble. [53:13] That’s why I went there to protect him. Hey, Bob, you were asked to represent an outfit associate or an outfit associate’s son who was accused of breaking the jaw of a Chicago policewoman. And you know, when a cop is injured in a fight with somebody, the cops follow that case. And I do not want to see any shenanigans going on. So, so tell us about how you walked that line. And I bet those cops were, were not happy with you in the end. Some people think this is a reason you flipped. Take us inside that case, will you? [53:45] And the reason I mentioned that it had a lot to do with what I eventually did. Now we’ll get back to what made me do what I was going to do. When I was practicing law now, and now I have been away from all this for years, I was out of town a lot because I’m representing the Chinese all around the country. I’m their main lawyer right now. [54:10] And I get a call from Lenny Colella. And he says, my son, he said, my son is in trouble. I want to come in and I want to talk to you about handling his case. This was a heater case, too. This was a front page case because he was charged with aggravated battery and attempted murder. Supposedly, he had beat up a policewoman and it was all over the place. He was a drug addict and whatever, supposedly he did all this. And when he came into the office with his dad, he was high. When I talked to him, he’s got his kid with him. And the kid is a smart aleck. As we’re talking, the kid, and I asked the kid, well, whatever. The kid was a smart aleck. And I just said to him, I said, Len, I can’t help you. I said, get him out of here. I want nothing to do with him. I said, I can’t help you. You didn’t take cases that were involved with cops anyhow, for the most part. No. I didn’t know what had happened in this case. I know what I saw in the paper. I didn’t know what the facts or anything were or whatever. I mean, if it turned out that if I felt when I talked to him that he had done it, whatever, I would not have taken the case anyhow. [55:26] I mean, I would not have. That’s why I say, too, that may be, too, why I was as quick and as rude as I was when he came in there and was acting and was a little bit high. I just wanted nothing to do with him, period. I said to his dad, his father said, you know, if I get him cleaned up, you know, I said, well, if you get him cleaned up, then we’ll talk again. I said, but I can’t help him, and I can’t help him. [55:54] And off he goes. the father re-contacted me about a week later. And he said, I had him in rehab and he straightened out and whatever. And he brought him back in and it was a new person. And when he told me the facts of the case, when he told me what happened, because he was a big, tough kid. He was a big, you know, he was a weightlifter, but he was a big, tough looking kid. [56:19] And it’s a little police woman. When he told me what happened, I believed him. Because I’ve been out in the street and whatever. And he says, you know, he told me what happened, that he had gotten stopped. He was out there talking to her. And when she said, you’re under arrest for DUI, he just walked. He says, I walked. I was going to get in my car and drive away. And she grabbed me and was pulling me or whatever. And I hear all these sirens coming. And within a few minutes, there’s all kinds of police. There’s about half a dozen police there. He says, and then they started jumping on me. He said, she was under me. He was all beaten up. He was all bloody and whatever. And she apparently had her jaw broken. And there’s no doubt in my mind when he’s telling me that, you know, when they were hit with his clubs or with this thing that they claimed he had without his fingerprints, it was a metal bar. Right, a slapper. A chunk of lead covered by leather. Everybody used to carry a slapper. How about you carry a slapper? They claimed, but there was no cloth on this. It was just the metal itself. Yeah, oh really? [57:45] Anyhow, that makes it interesting during the trial when they flat out lied. No, he had no blood. I got the hospital reports. They wouldn’t take him in the station because he was too badly beaten up. But anyhow, he also had two other charges. He had been involved in a fight in a bar. And he had been involved in another situation with the police. And he was charged with resisting arrest and battery on a policeman out in Cicero. So he had these three cases. So I gave the father a fee on handling, you know, the one, I was going to, I gave him a fee one case at a time. I said, you know, first thing we’ll do, I want to get rid of those other two cases. I’ll take them to juries, I said. [58:36] I’ll take them to juries because I wasn’t going to put them. I knew both the judges on those cases, but I wasn’t going to put them in a position on a case like that. I take the first case to trial. And I get him a not guilty. That was the fight in the bar. [58:54] That was out in one of the suburbs. That was out in, I’m not sure which suburb, in the northwest side. After we get that case over with, before that case, I get a call from Pat Marcy. Pat Marcy, I hadn’t seen him probably even for a couple months, but I hadn’t talked to him for quite a long period of time. And he says to me, you got a case that just came in. He said, we’re going to handle it. And I said, there’s no need, Pat. I said, I can win these cases. I said, there’s no need. I can win these cases. And he said, we’re going to handle this. The case is going to go to Judge Passarella, he said, and we’ll take care of it. I said, Pat, there’s no need to. I said, I can win these cases. I said, they’re all jury trials, but I know I can win them all. And he says, you do as you’re told. Pat had never talked to me like that before. [59:54] Powerful as he was and crazy as I am, And he never, you know, you never demand that I do anything or whatever. We had a different type relationship. And although I hadn’t broken away from them by now, it’s been years. I had broken away from them for about, you know, two, three years. And he says, you know, take the case to trial. I said, well, he’s got some other cases, too, and I’m going to take the one. And she says, I’ll take it to a jury, and I’ll win it. You’ll see how I win it. I take her to trial, and I get her not guilty. The second case was set for trial about a month after that. Not even, yeah, about a month or so after that. And during that time, a couple of times I’m in counselors, and Pat says, when are you going to take the case to trial? I said, well, Pat, you know, I won the one case. I got the other case on trial, and it was before Judge Stillo. He was a judge that we eventually indicted. [1:00:51] Stillo was very, very well connected to the first ward. He’s one of the old-time judges out in Maywood. And I told him, you know, when I came in there, he assumed I’d take it to trial and he’d throw it out. And I said, no, no, no, there’s no need to. I says, I’m going to take the jury on this one. Number one, I had stopped fixing things long before this. And, but he was, to make money, he was willing that he would have thrown the case out. It was a battery with a Cicero policeman. And I says, no, no, I’ll take it. I’ll take it to, you know, I’ll take the jury. I said, I don’t want to put you in that pursuit. Oh, don’t worry about me. I take that one to trial and I win that one too. Now Pat calls me, when the hell are you going to take the case to trial? And that’s the original case with the police woman. That’s the main one. The main one. Okay, go ahead. [1:01:44] When are you going to take it to trial? And I don’t want to take it to trial. In fact. I had talked to the prosecutor, and I said, look, I said, because he was charged with, he was charged with, you know, attempted murder and arrest. I said, if you’ll reduce it, the prosecutor was an idiot. He knew me, should have realized that, you know, that I never lose cases. Yeah. You know, but I want to work out something. He was a special prosecutor on it. He said, we’re not going to reduce it. We said, you know, if you want to work out a plea, we went five years, we went five to ten or whatever in the penitentiary. And I said, well, that’s not going to happen. I said, well, then we’ll just have to go to trial. So now, while I’m at Counselor’s Row, on one of my many occasions, because I was still having some card games over there at somebody else’s other lawyer’s office, because I had had big card games going on there for years. I’m sitting at the counselor’s row table, and Judge Passarella comes in. There’s just him and me there, and when he comes in, I say, Oh, you’re here to see Pat? [1:02:56] And he goes, Pat, who? No more conversation. Who the fuck? No more. The guy’s treating me like I’m some kind of a fool or whatever. And I developed an instant disliking to him. I had never seen him around that much or whatever before that. So now, after the second case, you’re going to go to, you know. So I talked to Lenny. When Lenny came in, Lenny came in with him when we were starting to get prepared for the case. And, oh, this is before this is before I talked to the prosecutor. And I said, Lenny, I said, I says, if I can get it reduced to a misdemeanor, to a misdemeanor. I said, you know, can we work with, you know, and work out a plea, let’s say, for maybe a month or two, you know, a month or two. Is that OK with you? Oh, sure. He says, oh, sure. [1:03:57] Now, this Lenny, this was the kid’s dad, your client’s dad. This is his dad. Now, explain who he was, who Lenny was. His dad was. What’s his last name? Yeah, Karela. Karela, okay. Lenny Karela, I’m pretty sure was his name. He owned a big bakery out there in Elmwood Park area. Okay. And he was friendly with all the mobsters. Okay, all right. I got you. For all I knew, he may have been a mobster himself, but I mean, he may have been because we had thousands of people that were connected. He was a connected guy. All right, go ahead. I’m sorry. And he said, oh, yeah, sure, no, not a problem because the papers are meant, they’re still, after a year, they’re still mentioning that case will be going to trial soon and every so often. [1:04:43] What I had also done, I tried to make contact with the policewoman, not with her, but I put the word out and I knew a lot of police and I got a hold of somebody that did know her. And I said, look, I said, no, the case is fixed if I want it. Yeah. But I don’t want it. Even though I know that, you know, that it’s all BS, you know, I said, look, I said, get a hold of her and get a hold of her lawyer and tell them if they want to file a lawsuit, you know, you know, we can, they can get themselves some money on it. Uh, you know, he’ll indicate, you know, he’ll, he’ll, he’ll indicate that, you know, he, he was guilty or whatever, but I wanted to get her some money. The word I get back is tell him that piece of shit, meaning me to drop dead, to drop dead. You know, we’re going to put this guy in prison and that’s where he should be too. When the case now, now when the case goes to trial. [1:05:48] The coppers lied like hell and talk about stupid. I’ve got the police reports there. When they took him into the police station, they wouldn’t take him. The station said take him to a hospital. He goes to the hospital and the reports, you know, bleeding here, bleeding there, and, you know, marks here, marks there. They beat the hell out of him. [1:06:10] You know, nobody touched him. You know, nobody touched him. Nobody touched him. Was he bleeding? No, no, he wasn’t. He wasn’t bleeding. Didn’t have any, you know, along with, you know, along with everything else. Flat out lied. How many policemen were there? There were two or three. There were about 10 by the time it’s over. But it’s an absolute throwout. Any fingerprints on that metal? Well, we had some fingerprints, but not his. And on and on it went. It’s a throwout case to start with. The courtroom now where the case was, was very interesting. You walk in there, and when you walk in there, there’s about 20 people that can sit. And then there’s, it’s the only courtroom in the building where you have a wall, a glass wall, all the way up, all the way up. Covering in the door, opens up and goes in there. You go in there. It’s a big courtroom. A bunch of benches now in there. You go to the left, and here’s the judge’s chambers. You come out of the chambers, and you walk up about four steps. And here the desk is on like a podium. And it’s not where all the others are, you know, where you look straight forward. It’s over on the side. It’s over, you know, to the left as you walk out of his chambers. [1:07:40] When the judge listens to the case he goes in there I’ll come up back with my ruling he comes out about 10 minutes later he walks up the steps, And now he turns off the microphone. Somebody turns off the microphone so the people in the back can’t hear anything. The ones inside there can, you know, can hear. The one back there can’t hear anything because it’s all enclosed. [1:08:11] That’s why they got the microphone back there. Somebody shut it off. He says, basically, I’m not guilty in a real strange voice. And all but runs off the all but run and don’t ask me why this is what he did all but runs off all but runs off into the into his chambers, you know he’s afraid all those cops out in the audience were going to come and charge the stand I guess and put a whack on him. [1:08:43] But think about it this is Chicago he’s with the bad guys but I’m just saying I don’t know why he did all that, but that’s what he did. And so now, as I come walking out with Mike, and they’re all in uniform, and most of them are in uniform, and then you’ve got the press and all kinds of cameras and whatever there. And as I come walking out along with him, some of these guys I know, and these jerk-offs are like calling me names and whatever. I go, I go see Pat. [1:09:23] And when I go back into Counselor’s Row now, he’s there at the table. And when I come in, it’s a repeat of the Harry Allerman thing. He walks out. He walks directly. And I’m following him, and he walks in. He goes back into the same janitor’s closet and stands on the same steps just above me, you know, talking to me. And I said to him I said this judge is going to have a problem, I said, he’s going to have a problem. I said, what if he says something? And he said to me, nobody would dare. He said, nobody would dare cooperate against us. They know what would happen. Or words to that effect. And don’t ask me why. So many other things had happened before this. But now I’m looking at him and I’m thinking, you know, somebody’s got to stop this craziness. All this stuff. I’m thinking that at the moment, but then I’m worried for some reason, I think he can read my mind. [1:10:34] Stupid as all of this seems, I’m afraid to think that anymore. I’m almost, you know, cause Pat’s such a powerful person and every sense I know, I know his power, but anyhow, so I leave. And like I say, 10, 15 minutes later, that’s all forgotten about. He paid me the rest of the money I was supposed to get from them. [1:10:56] Obviously, he wanted to do it because he was probably charging a lot of money. That’s why he didn’t want me to take things. He wanted to collect the money because while the case was going on too, he puts me in touch with the head of the probation department because he was able to help in some way. He knew some of the, you know, some of the, some of the policemen involved in the thing had been contacted too. Yeah. But they were contacted and they messed up by, you know, they messed up by lying about all that. Yeah. When there’s police reports saying, oh, no, but anyhow, that was that particular case. Tell us why you decided to flip. [1:11:38] These had been your friends. You knew you had explosive information. You knew as a lawyer, you knew what you had to say would send these people to prison for many, many years. if not life. It had to be hard. As other things happened, why did I commit the, Probably two or three other times things happened. But the most important thing was to think when my dad was dying, and I was very close to my dad. When my dad was dyi

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Retired Kansas City, Missouri, Police Intelligence Unit Detective Gary Jenkins tells the story of the unsolved murder of James Ragen. Gary Jenkins digs into an old-school Chicago Outfit story pulled from a vintage newspaper clip by legendary columnist Drew Pearson. The article centers on James M. Ragen,” a key figure in the Continental Press and Racing Wire—and what happened when the Outfit decided it wanted total control of the race wire business. This is a gritty snapshot of how Chicago's underworld allegedly dominated legitimate businesses in the 1940s—bars, taverns, suppliers, and especially gambling infrastructure—then used violence and influence to keep it that way. Gary returned to Chicago Outfit history after spotting an old Drew Pearson column: “A Songbird Who Sang, Murdered.” Who James Ragen was: a major player in distributing horse racing results nationwide How race wire services powered mob-controlled bookmaking across U.S. cities The Outfit's push to muscle in with a competing racing wire—and the warning: don't compete with Chicago Mob-linked figure Mo Annenberg and the money behind race wire “tolls” and kickbacks.  Outfit names mentioned in the takeover fight, including “Greasy Thumb” Jake Guzik and others from the era. Pearson claimed that Ragen gave information about mob domination in Chicago to the U.S. Attorney General Tom Clark, and that resulted in his murder. The broad daylight attack: a fruit truck pulls alongside, and a machine gun ambush erupts at a stoplight, and James Ragen goes down in a hail of .45 bullets. The “stranger-than-fiction” twist: Ragen later dies, and an autopsy allegedly finds a tube of mercury in his stomach. Why the case remained murky: the coroner allegedly refused to pin it cleanly as murder (per Pearson's reporting) Gary frames it as a reminder of how deep the Outfit’s influence ran in city systems and politics. Memorable Moments Ragen/Reagan's fatalistic line (as told by Pearson): “If they want you, they're gonna get you.” The bizarre mercury detail and Gary asking listeners if they've ever heard anything like it Why This Story Matters This bonus episode connects the dots between information networks (race results), organized gambling, and the Outfit's approach to business: control the pipeline, control the profit—and crush anyone who won't move aside. Gary invites listeners to share any other “old but gold” Chicago Outfit stories or clippings worth covering in future bonus episodes—and reminds everyone to check out his books and films (search Gary Jenkins on Amazon or visit his website). Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript James Ragen race wire story Speaker: [00:00:00] Well, hey, all you wire tappers. Good to be back here in the studio. Gangland wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City, Missouri Police Detective, formerly of the Intelligence Unit. I spent 14 years there investigating organized crime in Kansas City. Best 14 years of my life. Speaker: I think sometimes you know, I’ve got this True Crime podcast and we focus on the mob and I haven’t. Been to Chicago for a little bit, it seemed like. And I was, I was looking through some stuff from the Chicago outfit Facebook page, and there’s a newspaper clip on the, the, the group that has newspaper clips on it that had an article by a man named Drew Pearson. Speaker: Now, drew Pearson was a real famous columnist back in the forties and fifties, and the title of it is A Songbird Who, mur, who Sang, murdered. Now he starts off talking about the singing of Joe Vce. I guess he, he wrote this article about the time Joe Vce had all the newspapers, Andre, and talked about the New York mob. Speaker: But he had [00:01:00] a guy who talked about the Chicago outfit. He said that, he feels, he said that he felt responsible for the death of this informant outta Chicago. So he dropped in, he said he dropped into the morgue of Chicago’s American newspaper to refresh his memory just about this guy and, and what he said. This guy was a man named James M. Reagan, who was a of the continental press and racing wire. He was machine gunned down from a fruit truck. In August 14th, 1946, Speaker: Reagan, before he died, had told him many things in, in 1946 four years before the Koff Commission and just before he got killed. Reagan told Drew Pearson about the Chicago Mob rule and gave him permission to take it to the Attorney General of the United States, Tom Clark. Now, Tom Clark is the same guy who [00:02:00] commuted the sentences of. Speaker: The four Chicago outfit bosses who were given tenure prison sentences for the Hollywood scandal for, for trying to extort money from Hollywood unions and Hollywood film companies. Now this story that he told was about hotels and taverns and nightclubs and restaurants, and he said they’re all dominated by the mob in Chicago. Speaker: He said to hire a bartender, to buy ice cubes or to launder. Roller towels. Those are the old towels that you used to pull down in the bathrooms. I don’t think they have ’em anymore. Speaker: And they take those towels out and send them off and they’d launder ’em and give you a freshman to buy any beer. To replenish your alcohol supply in a bar, you had to do business with the mob. The mob ruled a very large part of Chicago. He took this story back to Attorney General Clark, who authorized a dozen or so FBI men to check on Reagan’s facts. Speaker: Couple weeks later, they reported back and he said, this is all [00:03:00] true. They also reported that the control of the underworld reached in a very high places in Chicago and political places, and then Illinois too, also to Tom Clark, although nobody really knew that at the time and, and only indirectly. Some of these rules of the underworld in Chicago were on the surface, respected businessmen and, and politicians whose names were household words in Chicago. Speaker: Some of them had reformed, but they still controlled the mob. They, which means that they maybe didn’t go out and do mob stuff anymore, but they still were, had some control in the mob. In some respects, Reagan’s information was much more important than that at Joe Bachi, especially when it came to Chicago. Speaker: Achi didn’t know anything about Chicago, didn’t talk about Chicago, but the Justice Department in Washington had no jurisdiction at the time, which is kind of interesting. They had to pass a lot of special laws in order to bring the feds in or catch these guys on a, some kind of a interstate. Violation [00:04:00] now, they just didn’t wanna do it because they had interstate theft at that time. Speaker: There’s a lot of things they could do. Transportation, women across state lines for immoral purposes. They could use the interstate transportation of stolen autos. There was all kinds of stuff they could use, but, but they wouldn’t use it. Claim the state’s rights city of Chicago and state of Illinois responsible, not the FBI or the Justice Department now, ain’t, that’s something they claim they had no responsibility for all this crime going on in Chicago. Speaker: Lot different than it is today. The feds are trying to, to send the national Guard in and, and all the new federal police, a newly hired federal police , into Chicago to. Clean up Chicago. So back then they didn’t want anything to do with Chicago. Called drew Pearson back a little later, shortly after, and there was a leaky place up there in Washington. Speaker: He said the mob. Was wise to him. They were out to get him and he asked for FBI protection, the FBI did give him a bodyguard for a short period of time. But you know, it, that didn’t last. And Reagan [00:05:00] himself was not exactly a saint. He was, he was the the bar boss of the continental racing wire. And he, you know, he distributed raising results. Speaker: And there’s a huge amount of gambling in all the different cities that was ran by the mob. And the results came over this continental racing wire. Immediately you could have a race in, in upstate in Saratoga. And when that, that race was done, the results were sent back to Chicago and Kansas City and Baltimore, and, and Cleveland and all those states. Speaker: And he was involved with a mob associate named Mo Annenberg and distributing this news to RS all over the country. He actually had some minor altercations with this Mo Annenberg, who was definitely a mob associate when Annenberg wanted to increase the race wire tolls to some certain publications that that weren’t kicking back to the mob. Speaker: He wanted almost, he wanted to almost triple him from $200 a week to $500 a week. And his troubles really began because [00:06:00] Chicago Mob had started their own racing wire that was gonna compete with them. And, you know, you just don’t compete with the Chicago outfit on a business level. You just don’t compete with them. Speaker: A couple of names he said, Jaime Levin and greasy th. And greasy thumb, Jake Guzzi directed that battle to take over the race wire. The former Illinois State Senator involved Pat Burns. He was working for the mob acquired property over over, over the tracks where men with binoculars could flash the odds and the race results to offices, which then in turn sent ’em out over the wire to bookmakers all over the country. Speaker: And Reagan’s continental wire was already doing the same thing. And the take on this was fabulous for the mob and the mob demanded Reagan move over and let them have it all. You know, the mob, you just don’t, if they wanna move in, they’re gonna take it all. They’re always gonna take it all. Probably that’s what induced Reagan to talk to him. Speaker: Do Drew Pearson [00:07:00] opines and ’cause he had threats on his life even before this. And, and I think he thought maybe he could bring a lot of federal heat onto the mob in Chicago. That then would back them off from trying to take over the race wire business. You know, it’s you know, it’s a way to use the FBI or the police to take out competition really, is probably what it really comes down to, what it really was. Speaker: You know, drew Pearson says, you know, when a man calls you on the phone and tells you in detail about one time he found two gunmen laying outside his home, waiting for him to come out, and he tries to do something about it. And that’s when he called the FBI you know, and they said, manpower short, we got other problems to handle. Speaker: And. And Reagan kept calling Drew Pearson and kept calling saying, you know, my life’s in danger. And, and Drew Pearson, he was telling the truth. Reagan finally hired two bodyguards, what he should have done all on his own before a retired policeman named Walter Peltier and a truck driver named Marty Waltz. Speaker: The retired policeman might be okay, although that [00:08:00] would be suspect with a mob in Chicago. He just as soon turned him over for a little more money as guard him. I got a feeling. Two months after. Reagan talked to Drew Pearson. He was driving home about five 30 in the afternoon. A gray sedan with Indiana plates stopped in front of him in per Pershing Road and State Street. Speaker: The traffic light turned and the two bodyguards were following him in a close behind. They expected trouble, but not till they got home. And not in broad daylight on the streets of Chicago and downtown Chicago with all the traffic around. Well, a fruit truck, a light delivery truck with crates of fruit on it, and a tarponing across the top. Speaker: Pulled up alongside Reagan at this light. All of a sudden the Taron was pulled aside. This just like TV folks, machine gun stressed out and bam, bam, bam. I mean, they, they fired off round after round into Reagan’s car, light changed in the fruit truck, and the gray sedan moved on out. [00:09:00] Reagan was taken immediate to a hospital, and he was still alive, and he was kind of philosophical. Speaker: According to Drew Pearson. He says, well, I guess if they want you, they’re gonna get you. This was not the end of the story though. Re Reagan began to recover from the mods bullets. Three Chicago cops had sat in shifts outside his hospital room, one on each shift, and, and so, you know, they couldn’t finish the job in the hospital room, and Reagan got better and better. Speaker: But then finally on August 14th, this is about what, two months later, he dies. The autopsy showed that there was a tube of mercury had been placed inside his stomach enough to kill three men. Now, go figure. Have you ever heard of that? They placed it, I somehow they placed a tube of. Mercury in his stomach. Speaker: I guess he threw some of the wounds he had or something. They must have had a doctor involved. I’m not sure how that happened. That’s a, that’s a weird one there folks. That is something else. Any of you guys ever heard [00:10:00] anything more strange than that? Let me know. But put his tube of mercury in his stomach. Speaker: Crazy. The coroner ruled that he could not charge murder since he couldn’t say whether Reagan had died of gunshot wounds or of mercury poison. I think he’d charge murder either way. Well it sounded like the coroner was on the take too. You know, the outfit had Chicago wired in most of the political offices in 19 46, 47, 48. Speaker: Clear up to really up to the seventies, and the operation Graylord started knocking some of that out. They don’t know. They just don’t know whether some mobster came in there and or they bribed somebody. But more than likely, they bribed somebody to get that tube of mercury in his stomach. Death of James N. Speaker: Reagan remains one of Chicago’s 974 unsolved Gangland Slain since 1919, and that this was back in the fifties or so when this article was written. So that’s the end of James Reagan and the end of [00:11:00] his. Wire service, a continental press and racing wire in the total domination of Chicago, of the wire services, especially west of New York. Speaker: I mean Chicago. They wanted to rule everything west of New York and they did so. Anyhow. If you got any other old stories like that that are kind of interesting, let me know. I’m putting this up as a little bonus episode, and I really appreciate y’all tuning in. Don’t forget, I got books and movies out there to sell and go to my website or go to Amazon, just search for Gary Jenkins. Speaker: You might wanna take a look at the VA website. If you’re in, been in the service and you think you have a problem with PTSD or alcoholism or anything like that, if you have a problem with gambling via 8 1 800. Bets off or whatever. Your state has all the gambling casinos in the United States. Speaker: Whenever they get awarded a gambling license, they have to kick in so much money to provide services for people with problems with [00:12:00] gambling. They have problems with alcoholism straight you know, our friend Anthony Ruano, he’s got a website out there. Just go to his website and he’s, there’s a way to contact him on that. Speaker: I used, I sometimes say a number. I’m not sure if that number’s still any good. And I guess that’s all I got. Thanks a lot guys.

Welcome to the annual MOB Holiday episode—a celebration that's shaken, not stirred! In true MOB style, we just couldn't resist diving back into On Her Majesty's Secret Service. After all, what are the holidays without a little George Lazenby? This is the ultimate Bond Christmas, and you're invited to our second-ever MOB watchalong party with JW, Chris Wood, and the legendary Tom Sears from James Bond Radio. It's the present every Bond fan dreams of! So grab your favorite format—laserdisc, VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, or your digital copy of OHMSS—and get ready to join our commentary ride. Think of us as your holiday bonus feature, complete with laughs, trivia, and plenty of cheer. No matter how you watch, we'll help you sync the film perfectly, or just kick back and listen to the podcast—because you already know every scene! Happy Holidays, and may your season be as epic as the Bond Bobleigh chase, from all of us at Music of Bond and James Bond Radio!

The very latest statistics make it clear that, given the pervasiveness of organised crime worldwide, at least 2 regular listeners of Three Bean Salad must be directly involved in some Mob or other (and most likely at a middle-management level). But who are they? And do they know each other? Are they sworn enemies or, given their shared life experience, might they be able to develop a soul-nourishing friendship if they could only drop the street tough outer crust for 5 ruddy minutes??!! Ta very much to Diogo of Lisbon for gifting this week's topic to the Bean Machine (which is organised crime obvs).With thanks to our editor Laura Grimshaw.Join our PATREON for ad-free episodes and bonus/video episodes: www.patreon.com/threebeansaladTickets for our live shows at Machynlleth Comedy Fest:Saturday 2nd May - https://machcomedyfest.co.uk/show/2026/three-bean-salad-live-at-machfest-2026/Sunday 3rd May - https://machcomedyfest.co.uk/show/2026/three-bean-salad-podcast-live-at-machfest-2026/New merch now available here: www.threebeansaladshop.comGet in touch: threebeansaladpod@gmail.com @beansaladpod

Send us a textWOW!!!!  This fun explosive episode has Godfather star Gianni Russo joining King Hap to talk about lots of issues that "They dont want you to know".From surviving Polio as a child, to life in the mob, to life on the big screen starring in ledgendary movies like THE GODFATHER....Gianni's life has been a movie!!!  He joins “The Happy Hour” to talk about all the secrets you have always wanted to hear answers to!!!Who killed JFK? Was Marilyn Monroe killed?   If so, who was responsible? Where is the remains of Jimmy Hoffa? Why did the ledgendary Frank Sinatra sing till only a year before his passing? All these questions and more are anwsered here on “The Happy Hour” and in Gianni's New book.... MAFIA SECRETS!!! This episode was recorded live on the network infront of Happy Hour V.I.P.sIf you want to be part of the live tapingsfollow us on Twitchhttps://m.twitch.tv/thehappyhourscorwww.TheHappyHourSocialClub.comAS ALWAYSThe Happy Hour is brought to you by the official Top Shelf Alcohol of the Happy Hour!CLEARWATER DISTILLERY https://shop.clearwaterdistilling.com/PROMO CODE KINGHAPSAVES 10% and free shipping over $100OLD SCHOOL LABSAmazing Supplements made for Amazing people!TRY OATMEAL CREAM PIE PROTEIN! Save 30% site wide with promo code Kinghaphttps://shop.oldschoollabs.com/KINGHAPLiquid I.V.WOW..... SUGAR FREE LIV ENERGY!!!https://glnk.io/koyv/kinghap*PROMO CODE KINGHAP SAVES 25%

Als Castellano am 16.12.1985 erschossen wird, endet die große Zeit der Cosa Nostra in New York. Neue kriminelle Organisationen übernehmen, doch ganz verschwindet die Mafia nicht. Von Almut Finck.

In this explosive episode of Gangland Wire, host Gary Jenkins sits down with actor, entrepreneur, and mob insider Gianni “Johnny” Russo, best known for his unforgettable role as Carlo Rizzi in The Godfather. Russo pulls back the curtain on a lifetime of stories that stretch from Frank Costello and Joe Colombo to Las Vegas skimming, the Vatican Bank, Marilyn Monroe, Jimmy Hoffa, and even Pablo Escobar. Russo discusses his new book, Mafia Secrets: Untold Tales from the Hollywood Godfather, co-written with Michael Benson—an unfiltered account of power, violence, politics, and survival inside the criminal underworld and Hollywood royalty. This is not recycled mythology—this is Gianni Russo's personal version of history from the inside. Whether you believe every word or not, the stories are raw, violent, and utterly fascinating. This episode discusses: The Godfather, The Kennedy assassinations, Vegas skimming, Marilyn Monroe, Jimmy Hoffa, the Chicago Outfit, Pablo Escobar

Command Your Brand: https://commandyourbrand.com/book-a-callIn this episode, Roger Stone lays out his argument for who he believes was behind the JFK assassination—and why he says the official story still doesn't hold up.We cover:•⁠ ⁠A long-overlooked Nixon-era tape Roger says reveals pressure on the CIAWhy Stone argues Watergate and Dealey Plaza are connected•⁠ ⁠⁠The case he makes for LBJ as the “common thread” across competing theories•⁠ ⁠⁠The role of organized crime, intel agencies, Texas power networks, and more•⁠ ⁠⁠Why public skepticism of the lone-gunman narrative remains high decades laterThis conversation explores claims, disputed evidence, and controversial interpretations—so watch, evaluate, and decide for yourself.CHAPTERS:00:00 - Intro00:54 - JFK Assassination Investigation06:00 - Nixon's Secrets Revealed08:01 - The Greatest American Hoax09:21 - Competing Theories of JFK's Death13:15 - LBJ's Involvement in JFK's Assassination14:59 - The Warren Commission Findings17:29 - Analyzing LBJ's Character20:59 - The Mob's Influence on JFK's Assassination26:53 - JFK's Struggle with Drug Addiction28:40 - Jack Ruby's Role Explained35:32 - Finding Roger Stone's Insights

Mark 15:1-15 (ESV)Andrew, Isack, and Edwin discuss how easy it is to get caught up with a crowd and completely change your life. Follow truth, not the crowd.Read the written devo that goes along with this episode by clicking here.    Let us know what you are learning or any questions you have. Email us at TextTalk@ChristiansMeetHere.org.    Join the Facebook community and join the conversation by clicking here. We'd love to meet you. Be a guest among the Christians who meet on Livingston Avenue. Click here to find out more. Michael Eldridge sang all four parts of our theme song. Find more from him by clicking here.   Thanks for talking about the text with us today.________________________________________________If the hyperlinks do not work, copy the following addresses and paste them into the URL bar of your web browser: Daily Written Devo: https://readthebiblemakedisciples.wordpress.com/?p=23755The Christians Who Meet on Livingston Avenue: http://www.christiansmeethere.org/Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/TalkAboutTheTextFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/texttalkMichael Eldridge: https://acapeldridge.com/ 

The decision by major bosses such as Luciano, Adonis (Milan) and Coppola (Rome) to establish their homes far from Sicily, in large cities such as Naples, Milan and Rome, was based on specific strategic needs. In these cities, the traditional Sicilian mafia network did not exist, and it was difficult to create one from scratch because the environmental and personal elements of the traditional mafia structure were lacking. This diversification of behaviour in relations with 'power' and adaptability to contexts other than traditional Sicilian ones were evident. In Sicily, the relationship between the Mafia and power was rich in undertones and based on respect for 'authority', a traditional world where things were done without saying them.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-history-of-the-american-mafia--4722947/support.

Key Takeaways:Waterfront Industrial & Blue Highways: Using waterfronts for industrial logistics is an emerging trend, with efforts in NYC to shift freight from road to boat transport, relieving congestion and creating new opportunities for flex-space developers.Marijuana Industry & Small Towns: Cannabis companies are revitalizing struggling towns by providing jobs and increasing tax revenue, though they face regulatory and licensing hurdles.Silicon Valley Real Estate: Real estate development in the region is at its lowest since 2013, with high leasing activity but elevated vacancy rates. Older office assets may provide conversion opportunities.Medical Office Buildings (MOBs): MOBs are a stable and in-demand investment, with strong occupancy, resilient rents, and increasing demand driven by healthcare trends.Multifamily Delinquencies: Multifamily property loan defaults have risen, with delinquencies at nearly 7%. Higher interest rates and flat rents present challenges for owners and investors.Overall Market Opportunities: Watch for flex-space and last-mile logistics opportunities, be open to cannabis sector tenancies, pursue MOB investment and conversions of underutilized office space, and approach multifamily investments cautiously.

In this episode of Gangland Wire, Gary Jenkins interviews bestselling author Mark Shaw about his explosive new research into the JFK and RFK assassinations — and the hidden role of New Orleans Mafia boss Carlos Marcello. Shaw breaks down newly uncovered FBI documents, including Marcello's alleged 1985 prison confession claiming involvement in JFK's murder. We explore Marcello's long-running war with Robert Kennedy, the suspicious death of journalist Dorothy Kilgallen, and significant inconsistencies in the official story of RFK's assassination. This conversation challenges the lone-gunman narrative and exposes how organized crime, politics, and government investigations may have collided to shape American history. Subscribe to get notified about new content. 0:10 The Kennedy Connection 21:37 Sirhan’s Background Uncovered 31:56 The Role of Marcello in Assassinations 44:54 The Quest for Justice

We’re joined by Bruce Fitzgerald, a proud member of Mob+, a unique group for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people living with HIV, supported through the Thorne Harbour Positive Living Centre. With World AIDS Day just behind us and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander HIV Awareness Week underway, it's the perfect time to talk about the group. Bruce is here to help us understand why Mob+ exists, what makes it so important, and what's happening in the space for First Nations people living with HIV. To keep up with the group, check out the Positive Living Centre Facebook page. Check out our other JOY Podcasts for more on LGBTIQ+ health and wellbeing at joy.org.au/wellwellwell. If there's something you'd like us to explore on the show, send through ideas or questions at wellwellwell@joy.org.au Find out more about LGBTIQ+ services and events in Victoria and South Australia at thorneharbour.org and samesh.org.au.

A Mafia insider and authentic Hollywood tough guy reveals the explosive secrets he's learned (and kept) for decades in this shocking tell all that unveils the hidden worlds of film and organized crime-from who shot JFK and murdered Jimmy Hoffa to the truth about Marilyn Monroe's death.The Kennedys, Marilyn, the Vatican, Vegas, The Godfather, the Mob, and more .During a cursed childhood in a Manhattan neighborhood teeming with Italian immigrant Gianni Russo fended for himself at an early age. It was a quality that didn't go unnoticed by Frank Costello-father figure, mentor, and legendary crime boss. Thanks to Costello, Gianni was only twelve when his luck would change for a lifetime. All of it charmed-and thrilling. With it came Hollywood glamor, Vegas risk-takers, political conspiracies, sex, murder, shadow governments, and secrets. The stories Gianni Russo could tell . .. Now he does in this bombshell confessional. This is the inside account of the Sicilian Mafia, Cosa Nostra, what really transpired in those Mulberry Street clubs, and who whacked whom-including how mobster Tony Spilotro and his brother really died, finally revealed for the first time. This is Gianni, buddy of Frank Sinatra, and intimately more with Marilyn Monroe. What's the cover-up behind her death, JFK's, and Jimmy Hoffa's? It's all here. So is the clandestine role of the pope as the sacred boss of bosses, the glory days and downfall of Las Vegas, and the colorful behind-the-scenes tales of Gianni's role in the greatest movie ever made, The Godfather. The go-getter Frank Costello once called "The Kid" shares his shocking, exhilarating, sometimes violent, and always riveting life with the dealmakers of Hollywood and the Mob. Gianni Russo lives to tell, and spills it all.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.

Watch all of our Hamamoto videos here:    • Professor Hamamoto  Hamamoto on YouTube:    / @professorhamamoto  Prof. Darrell Hamamoto, who is an American writer, academic, and specialist in U.S. media and ethnic studies. Professors Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/share/hZajgC... WATCH ALEX C VIDEO    • MTG, Massie and Trump feud. Tucker, who is...  Follow Lauren The Insider online:

Welcome to Season 2 of Music of Bond. We are officially back in real-time! Join JW and Chris Wood as they catch up, properly, on Chris's new addition to his family, how the Skyfall red vinyl brought JW back into the fold, and a recap of the last six batch episodes, all recorded last spring and early summer. We read all of your emails, DMs, and comments—a lot of ground to cover. And as requested, we cover ours and yours deep, deep love for the LA-LA Land release of Thunderball. Thank you, everyone, for your continued support of the MOB community. We appreciate you.Of note, this episode was recorded the day before LA-LA Land announced Mookraker on vinyl. 

Joe Profaci was the quiet don who built the foundation of what became the Colombo crime family. From his olive-oil front to his long reign on the Mafia Commission, Profaci ran one of the most profitable and tightly controlled families in New York. We break down his rise, his rackets, the Gallo rebellion, and how his death set off years of Mafia chaos.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/outlaws-gunslingers--4737234/support.Subscribe to our YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/@bangdangnetwork

In this powerful episode of Gangland Wire, retired Intelligence Unit detective Gary Jenkins sits down with Tegan Broadwater, a former Fort Worth Police officer, musician, and undercover operative whose story reads like a movie script. Broadwater takes listeners on a riveting journey from his early years as a professional musician to his dramatic turn infiltrating one of America's most dangerous street gangs—the Crips. Drawing from his book Life in the Fishbowl, he details how music, culture, and human connection became unexpected tools for survival and success inside the underworld. Listeners will hear: How Tegan Broadwater transitioned from touring musician to undercover police officer, bringing creativity and adaptability to the streets. The story of his two-year infiltration into the Crips—posing as a South Texas drug dealer with the help of a trusted informant. His insights into gang hierarchy, loyalty, and manipulation, and how understanding culture was key to earning trust. The moral challenges of living undercover—forming friendships with men he would eventually arrest. The emotional impact of a major gang raid that ended with over 50 arrests, and how it changed his outlook on justice and humanity. His decision to donate proceeds from his book to the children of incarcerated parents aims to break the cycle of violence. He continues to share lessons on leadership, empathy, and cultural understanding through his private security firm and new podcast projects.   Broadwater's story isn't just about crime and undercover operations—it's about identity, compassion, and the human cost of violence. This episode offers a rare look at what it means to live behind a mask while still holding onto one's purpose.

In dieser Ausgabe von „Lage der Nation“ berichtet Roland Tichy über die dramatischen Ereignisse rund um eine Demonstration in Gießen, die unter dem Vorzeichen von Demokratie und Vielfalt stand – und dennoch Gewalt und Hetze mit sich brachte. Das war so geplant. Linksextremisten mischen sich unter die Menschenmenge; eine Menschenmenge, die sie schützt und bei Angriffen anfeuert. Besonders im Fokus: die Rolle des DGB. Der hatte erklärt: Man solle das TE-Kamerateam melden, der DGB werde „das klären“. Das Ergebnis waren Tritte, Schläge und ein Mob, der die Journalisten massiv angriff.

Jagd auf Journalisten: DGB-Bühne hetzt, linker Mob – und ein verletzter TE-Kameramann In Gießen eskalieren die Proteste gegen die Gründung der neuen AfD-Jugendorganisation: Blockaden legen die Stadt lahm, Wasserwerfer und Verletzte prägen das Bild. Von der DGB-Bühne wird gegen das Team von Tichys Einblick gehetzt – kurz darauf greifen vermummte Gruppen unseren Kameramann an und schlagen ihm zwei Zähne aus. Die Polizei rettet das Team erst im letzten Moment aus einer feindseligen Menge. TE stellt Strafanzeige wegen Angriffen auf Pressemitarbeiter. Drinnen gelingt der AfD trotz Chaos die Wahl ihrer neuen Jugendführung – draußen zeigt sich ein erschreckendes Bild linker Gewalt und demokratischer Entgleisung. Webseite: https://www.tichyseinblick.de

Send us a textBumpy Johnson is known as the Boss of Harlem and the lead star in the TV hit show "The Godfather of Harlem". Bumpy lived a crazy life working with and against The 5 Families of NY. Ant Hatcher is a musician and the owner of the "Ellsworth Raymond "Bumpy" Johnson" estate. King Hap being a fan of true crime and music has a blast with his chat with Ant. But, HOW DOES ANT FEEL ABOUT THE WAY THE NETWORK EXPLAINS HIS FAMILY? Their life? Their struggles?............ HE DOES NOT LOVE IT!Ant is as real as it gets and he and Hap chat it up and have a fun show that is enjoyed by all. The VIPs have a blast and enjoy one of Ants musical hits on the way out!!!**This epidose at some points has a little bit of an echo..... Its minor and the show is worth the minor sound issue**Follow Ant on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/ant_hatcherCheck out The Johnson Family page on FBhttps://www.facebook.com/share/1DswC1gajq/?mibextid=wwXIfrYouTube for Anthttps://youtube.com/@oaiindianz70?si=W_Iw0LCZJZzlWrOhThis episode was recorded live on the network infront of Happy Hour V.I.P.sIf you want to be part of the live tapingsfollow us on Twitchhttps://m.twitch.tv/thehappyhourscorwww.TheHappyHourSocialClub.comAS ALWAYSThe Happy Hour is brought to you by the official Top Shelf Alcohol of the Happy Hour!CLEARWATER DISTILLERY https://shop.clearwaterdistilling.com/PROMO CODE KINGHAPSAVES 10% and free shipping over $100OLD SCHOOL LABSAmazing Supplements made for Amazing people!TRY OATMEAL CREAM PIE PROTEIN! Save 30% site wide with promo code Kinghaphttps://shop.oldschoollabs.com/KINGHAPLiquid I.V.WOW..... SUGAR FREE LIV ENERGY!!!https://glnk.io/koyv/kinghap*PROMO CODE KINGHAP SAVES 25%

Mob enforcer. Contract killer. Self-made legend.Richard “The Iceman” Kuklinski is one of America's most infamous contract killers — a man who claimed to have murdered more than 100 people while working for New Jersey and New York crime families. But behind the macabre legend lies a killer who blended real violence with outright invention. In this episode, Simon Ford looks at the psychology, the mob connections, and the mythmaking behind Kuklinski's criminal career. From freezing bodies to confuse coroners to his chilling interviews with forensic psychologist Dr Park Dietz, Kuklinski remains a disturbing figure at the crossroads of true crime and dark folklore.AcknowledgementsThe Iceman – Millennium Entertainment, 2012.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/psycho-killer-shocking-true-crime-stories--5005712/support.

Show SummaryOn today's episode, we're featuring a conversation with Bob Delaney, a mental health advocate who has also had a full life: a college basketball player, a new jersey state trooper who went undercover in some of the biggest Mob families in new jersey, and his role as a high-profile NBA referee. Bob's insights have been sought after by senior military leadership to speak to troops about mental health and posttraumatic stress. Provide FeedbackAs a dedicated member of the audience, we would like to hear from you about the show. Please take a few minutes to share your thoughts about the show in this short feedback survey. By doing so, you will be entered to receive a signed copy of one of our host's three books on military and veteran mental health. About Today's GuestBob Delaney is an NBA Cares Ambassador and the Southeastern Conference (SEC) Special Advisor for Officiating Development. He served as the NBA's Vice President of Referee Operations and Director of Officials, after 25 seasons as an NBA referee. Prior to his career in professional basketball, Delaney was a highly decorated New Jersey State Trooper who went undercover to infiltrate the mafia; causing his post-traumatic stress journey. Delaney's firsthand experiences coupled with a passion to better understand mental health make him an expert on the subject. His efforts to educate and bring attention to the topic of post-traumatic stress have entailed visits to military troops around the world, including multiple trips to Afghanistan and Iraq. Described by retired General Robert Brown, U.S. Army Four Star Commander of the Pacific, as the "person who related to soldiers better than any visitor I have seen in my 36 years in the military," Delaney authored a book on the topic, Surviving the Shadows: A Journey of Hope into Post Traumatic Stress. He is also the author of Covert: My Life Infiltrating the Mob. His most recent book - Heroes are Human...Lessons in Resilience, Courage and Wisdom from the COVID Frontlines shares the emotional toll on our healthcare community as they fought an invisible enemy. He has been the subject of numerous media articles and shows including Dr. Sanjay Gupta CNN. Delaney is with the University South Florida Corporate Training and Professional Education Office as Lead Instructor for Trauma Awareness, Resilience, Selfcare programs.Links Mentioned During the EpisodeBob Delaney's Web sitePsychArmor Resource of the WeekThis week's PsychArmor Resource of the Week is the PsychArmor course course Understanding the VA for Caregivers. This course helps caregivers navigate and better utilize the services of the VA – the largest integrated healthcare system in the country. The content for this course was developed collaboratively with a working group of various VA Departments. You can find the resource here:  https://learn.psycharmor.org/courses/understanding-the-va-for-caregivers-2 Episode Partner: Are you an organization that engages with or supports the military affiliated community? Would you like to partner with an engaged and dynamic audience of like-minded professionals? Reach out to Inquire about Partnership Opportunities Contact Us and Join Us on Social Media Email PsychArmorPsychArmor on XPsychArmor on FacebookPsychArmor on YouTubePsychArmor on LinkedInPsychArmor on InstagramTheme MusicOur theme music Don't Kill the Messenger was written and performed by Navy Veteran Jerry Maniscalco, in cooperation with Operation Encore, a non profit committed to supporting singer/songwriter and musicians across the military and Veteran communities.Producer and Host Duane France is a retired Army Noncommissioned Officer, combat veteran, and clinical mental health counselor for service members, veterans, and their families.  You can find more about the work that he is doing at www.veteranmentalhealth.com  

In this episode of Gangland Wire, host Gary Jenkins sits down with former FBI agent Séamus McElearney, author of Flipping Capo, for a deep dive into one of the most remarkable Mafia investigations and how he took down the DeCavalcante Family. McElearney recounts his unlikely path from the world of banking to the FBI, driven by a lifelong fascination with law enforcement. Despite being told he didn't have the “right background,” he pushed forward—eventually landing in New York's Organized Crime Squad C-10, where he investigated both the Bonanno and DeCavalcante crime families. He describes the rare and demanding experience of working two Mafia families at once, and the teamwork required to dismantle them from the inside out. As the conversation turns to his book, Flipping Capo, McElearney explains the years-long process of writing it and the rigorous FBI review needed to ensure no sensitive investigative techniques were revealed. He shares early memories of notorious boss Joe Massino, and the high-stakes surveillance and arrests that defined his career. A major focus of the episode is the arrest and flipping of Anthony Capo, a feared DeCavalcante soldier—and the first made member of that family ever to cooperate with the government. McElearney walks listeners through the tension of that operation, his calculated approach to treating Capo with respect, and the psychological tightrope that ultimately persuaded Capo to talk. That single decision triggered a domino effect of cooperation that helped bring down the New Jersey mob family many believe inspired The Sopranos. Gary and Séamus dive into the proffer process, cooperation agreements, and the behind-the-scenes strategies used to turn high-level mobsters. McElearney also draws comparisons between real mob figures and the fictional world of The Sopranos, revealing how much of the hit series was grounded in the actual cases he worked. The interview closes with McElearney's reflections on how organized crime continues to evolve. While today's mob may look different from the one he battled in the '90s, he stresses that the methods—and the money—still flow. His candid insights offer a rare look into the changing face of the American Mafia and the ongoing fight to contain it. Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app. 2:26 Seamus’ FBI Journey 6:26 Inside the DeCavalcante Family 9:05 The Process of Flipping 10:27 Comparing Families 12:30 The First Cooperation 17:43 The Proffer Process 25:03 Protecting Cooperators 27:44 The Murder of Joseph Canigliaro 29:42 Life on Trial 30:28 The Real Sopranos 39:43 Leading the Columbo Squad 44:15 Major Arrests and Cases 50:57 Final Thoughts and Stories Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript [0:00]Well, hey, welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective. [0:07]Welcome to Gangland Wire [0:07]I have a former FBI agent as my guest today. And, you know, I love having these FBI agents on. I’ve had a lot of them on and I worked with a lot of the guys and they’re really good guy. Everyone I ever met and worked with was a really good guy. Now they got their deadhead just like we did. But these aggressive guys are the ones that write books and I’ve got one on today. Seamus McElherney. Welcome, Seamus. Thank you. It’s great to be here. All right. Well, an Irish name now working on the Italian mob, huh? How come you weren’t working on the Westie? So they were maybe gone by the time you came around. There’s no such thing. [0:47]Oh, yeah. You got your code. You Irish guys got your code, too. All right, Seamus, you got a book, Killing, or Killing, Flipping Capo. I want to see it back up over your shoulder there. Really interesting book, guys. He flipped a guy named Anthony Capo. And he really took down the real Sopranos, if you will. So Seamus, tell us a little about how you got started with the FBI, your early career. Okay. When I got out of school, I really didn’t know what to do. And I got into banking and I just decided that was really not for me. And I got lucky where I got to meet an FBI agent. and I was just so fascinated by the work. It seemed like every day was different. You know, one day you could meet a CEO and another day you could be doing surveillance. It just, the job just seemed really interesting. [1:38]Like fascinating to me. So I decided to try to become an agent. And I was constantly told, Shane, you should never become an agent. You didn’t have the background for it. And one, one, a motto in life to me is persistence beats resistance. And I was just determined to become an agent. And back then in the late 1990s, it was a long process and it took me close to two years to actually become an agent. And I was selected to go down to training and I was very fortunate to be selected to go down to training. Now it was your first office back up in New York and the, one of the organized crime squads, or did you go out into boonies and then come back? I actually was born and raised in New York, and I was fortunate to be selected to be sent back to New York. So my first squad, I was sent back to the city, back to 26 Federal Plaza, [2:26]Seamus’ FBI Journey [2:24]and I was assigned to a squad called C-10. And C-10 was an organized crime squad, which was responsible for the Bonanno family, and then later became the DeCavocanti family as well, which I can explain to you yeah yeah we’ll get we’ll get deep into that now now let’s let me ask you a little bit about the book tell the guys a little bit about the process of writing a book from your fbi experiences. [2:47]It’s a long process. First of all, I was contacted by someone who was interested [2:55]Writing a Book [2:53]in writing a book based upon my career. People had encouraged me to write a book because I had a very successful career. And when you work organized crime, it’s never just about you. It’s about the people that you work with, right? It’s definitely a team. It’s never just one person. I had great supervisors. I had great teammates. I had a great partner. And so I was approached to write a book. So then I had no idea. So there was an agent, a famous agent, an undercover agent named Jack Garcia. So I kind of really leaned on him to kind of learn how to write a book. And it’s a long process. You have to get an agent, the publisher, a co-author I had. And then when you finally have all that, and you do have the manuscript ready to be written, you have to send it down to the FBI. And that is a long process. The FBI, in this instance, probably took over a year for them to review the book because what they want to make sure is you’re not revealing any investigative techniques. Fortunately for me, a lot of the information that is in the book is public information because of all the trials that I did. Interesting. Yeah, it is. It is quite a I know it was quite a process. [4:00]Now, the banana squad, you work in a banana squad. You know, we know a little bit about the banana squad. [4:07]Was Joe Pacino the boss when you first came in? Yes, he was. And I actually had the pleasure of arresting Joe as well. Ah, interesting. I did a show on Joe. He’s a really interesting guy. I know my friend, who was at the banana squad, I think just before you were, and he talked a lot of, to me personally, he won’t go on the show, but he talked a lot about Joe Massino. He said, actually, saw him in the courtroom one time later on, he hadn’t seen him in several years. And, and Joe looked across the courtroom. He said, Doug, how are you doing? He said, Joe was that kind of guy. He was real personal. He was. [4:44]Yeah, so when I first got to the squad, the supervisor at the time was a gentleman named Jack Steubing, and he had the thought process to go after Joe and his money. So there was two accountants that were assigned to a squad at that time. It was Kimberly McCaffrey and Jeff Solette, and they were targeted to go after Joe and his money. And it was a very successful case. And when we arrested Joe, I think it was in January of 2003, I believe it was, I was assigned to be part of that arrest team. Interesting. You know, McCaffrey and Sled are going to be talking about that case out at the Mob Museum sometime in the near future. I can’t remember exactly when it is. And it was a hell of a case. I think it just happened, actually. Oh, did it? Okay. I actually just spoke to Jeff, so I think it just happened about a week or two ago. Okay. Yeah, I tried to get him to come on the show, and I think maybe he was committed to doing something else, and I didn’t keep after him. And I don’t like to pester people, you know. [5:44]And Fensell was the one that said, you got to get Jeff Sillett. You got to get Jeff Sillett. When I looked into that money angle of it, that was pretty interesting about how they were laundering their money through the parking lots and just millions. And when he gave up, like $10 million or something? I mean, it’s unbelievable. Yes. And that’s that’s one of the reasons why I wrote the book is because I don’t think the public or the press really put this together where that squad, C-10, is a very unique squad where we were dismantling the two families at the same time. Half the family was working the Bonanno family and half the family was working the Cavalcanti family. So it’s a very unique squad during that six or seven year time period where we were dismantling two families at the same time. [6:26]Inside the DeCavalcanti Family [6:26]Interesting and and that gets us into the dekavocante family i could always struggle with that name for some reason but that’s all right guys know i butcher these names all the time. [6:37]Forgive me guys anyhow so you ended up working on the dekavocante family down in new jersey now that you know that’s unusual how did that come about we got we got a new jersey branch of the fbi down there too, Yes, we do. So what happened was I went to training in February of 1998. The case actually starts in January of 1998, where an individual named Ralph Guarino was the mastermind behind this, but he had the idea of robbing the World Trade Center. So he had three people that actually tried to execute that plan. They did rob the World Trade Center, but when they came out, they took their mask off and they were identified by the cameras that were actually there. So those individuals were actually arrested pretty quickly. I think two were arrested that day. The third person, I think, fled to New Mexico and was found pretty quickly. Ralph was smart enough to know that he was going to be apprehended pretty quickly. So he reached out to an agent named George Hanna, a legendary agent within the office, and George was able to convince him to become a proactive witness, meaning he would make consensual recordings. That was in January of 1998. I think it was January 14th. [7:51]Approximately nine days later, there was a murder of an individual named Joseph Canigliaro. Who was a ruthless DeKalocanti associate assigned to a wheelchair. How he got in a wheelchair was back in the 70s, a DeKalocanti soldier and him went to go collect money from a loan shark victim. And the story goes that Jim Gallo, James Gallo, actually shot Joseph Canigliaro by accident and paralyzed him. No hard feelings. It was just the course of doing their business back then. But he was paralyzed from the 70s to the 90s. He was a ruthless individual. though. And the reason that they killed him is his crew around him had him killed. They actually killed him because he was such a ruthless person and who would extort people and just really was a bad person. There were stories that he would call people over to him in his wheelchair and shoot them. So a ruthless guy. And he was killed in, I think, January 23rd of 1998. [8:50]So that’s how this case starts. Ralph Guarino, as I said, became a proactive witness. When you have a proactive witness. You just don’t know where they’re going to go. What I mean by that is you would direct him through mob associates and many guys, and you’re trying to gather evidence on tape. [9:05]The Process of Flipping [9:06]Where Ralph Guarino led us was the Brooklyn faction of the DeCavalcanti family, namely Anthony Capo, Anthony Rotondo, Vincent Palermo. [9:17]Joseph Scalfani, a whole host of DeCavalcanti people that were located in Brooklyn. And that’s how we start to build this case. Now, granted, I was just in training at that time in February of 1998. I don’t get sent back to New York until May of 1998. And from May of 1998 until December of 1998, they put you through a rotation, meaning I go through the operations center, I go through surveillance, and then I finally get assigned to C-10 in December of 1998. At that point in time, Jeff and Kim are already on the squad, so they’re operating the case against Messino. I come to the squad, and the Decalvo Canty case has now started. So I’m assigned to the Decalvo Canty portion of the squad to work them. And as I said, that’s why we’re working two parallel cases at the time. One is against the Bananos, the other is against the Jersey family. And we operate, Ralph, proactively from January 1998 up until the first set of indictments, which was in December of 1999. So compare and contrast the Banano family structure and how they operated in [10:27]Comparing Families [10:24]a DeCavocante family structure and how they operate. Were they exactly the same or were there some differences? [10:31]They’re into the same types of the rackets that the Waldemar people are into, but I would say related to the Decalvo Canty family, since they’re based in Jersey, they really had a control of the unions out there. There was two unions that they basically controlled, Local 394, which was the labor union, and they also started their own union, which was the asbestos union, which was Local 1030. [10:53]And those were controlled by the Decalvo Canty family, so that was the bread and butter of the Decalvo Canty family. So, as I said, the first set, you know, we operated Ralph proactively for almost close to two years. And then in December of 1999, we executed our first set of arrests because there was whispers that Ralph, why wasn’t he arrested yet? Where he was the mastermind behind the World Trade Center being robbed, but he hasn’t been picked up yet. So there was whispers that he might be cooperating with the government. And for his safety, that’s why we took him off off the street and we executed our first round of arrest in December of 1999. [11:33]I’m a relatively new agent. I’d only been on the squad now for a year and we arrested 39 people that day. I get assigned to arrest Anthony Capo, who’s a soldier within the Decavacanti family based out of Staten Island. And I was really surprised by that because, as I said, I was just an agent for about a year. Usually when you’re a new agent, you’re assigned to the back, you know, like we are security. I was even surprised that I was going to be on a team. And I was fortunate enough to be the team leader, which is very surprising to me. And the case was out of the Southern District of New York. And in New York, just for the public, there is two districts. There’s a Southern District of New York and the Eastern District of New York. And the Eastern District of New York also had charges on Anthony Capo as well. So for my arrest team, I had members from the Eastern District of New York as well. There was a separate squad that was looking into Anthony Capo there. [12:30]The First Cooperation [12:27]So I got the ticket to arrest Anthony Capo in December of 1999. And that’s how this case starts. [12:33]Interesting. Now, nobody’s ever flipped out of the DeCavocante family before, I believe. It’s been a pretty tight family, really rigidly controlled by this Richie the Boot. I mean, he’s a fearsome, fearsome guy. I mean, you did not want to get crossways with him. And a smaller, tighter family, it seems to me like, than the New York families. That was right. Well, like up and up until that point, up until that point and unbeknownst to me that no made member in the DeKalbacanti family had ever cooperated with the government before. [13:08]So I had watched George Hanna, how he operated Ralph Guarino for those two years, and he always treated him with respect. And prior to going to arrest Anthony Capo, Anthony Capo had had a reputation of being an extremely violent person, hated by law enforcement and even hated by a lot of people within the mob. But I was going I wasn’t going to let that, you know, use that against him. I was going to treat him with respect regardless. Right. I didn’t know I didn’t know him. I never dealt with him before. And I would basically before I went to go arrest him, I was going to study everything about him, learn everything about him. And I was going to use the approach of treating him with respect and using some mind chess when I was going to arrest him. What I mean by that is I was going to learn everything charges about him, everything about his family. I wanted him to know that I knew him like the back of my hand from head to toe, the start of the book to the end of the book. [14:02]And when I went to arrest him, I remember when we went to his house, he wasn’t there. So all the planning that you do related to going into an arrest, the checks that you do, he’s at the house, you knock on his door, and guess what? He’s not there. So his wife basically tells us that he’s at his mom’s house. So then that throws all the planning out the window, and now we go to his mom’s house. And when I met him, you know, I saw that he had a relationship with his parents, which, you know, it gives me a different perspective from what I heard from him. Interesting. And that says something about him, that’s for sure. So everything that I heard of this violent person and hated person, the way he treated law enforcement, he wasn’t that way with me. [14:49]So when I get him in the car and I start to read him his rights and start to ask him questions, every question that I would ask him, I already had the answer to, like, your date of birth, social security number. And then he would invoke his right to counsel, and then you’re not allowed to ask him any more questions. So what I would do is I would let the mind game start then. And I would ask him, you know, tell him about the charges that he had at that point in time. He was only charged with a conspiracy to murder Charlie Maggiore, who was an acting panel boss of the Decalvo Canty family. At that time, that point in time, they had three panel bosses. It was Charlie Maggiore, Jimmy Palermo and Vincent Palermo. Vincent Palermo was known as the stronger personality and really known as the acting boss. And they wanted to kill Charlie Maggiore. So he was charged with that. conspiracy to murder. And he was also charged with, I believe, stock fraud or it was mail fraud that would lead to stock fraud. So when I would question him, I would tell him, since he already invoked his right to counsel, don’t say anything, just listen to me. For an example, I would say your plan was to murder Charles Majuri. Your plan was to ring his doorbell and shoot him right there with James Gallo, Joe Macella. But you guys didn’t do that because there was a cop on the block. So instead of just doing a ring and run, you guys were going to ring and shoot him, right? [16:17]And now you’ve got to think, I told him, don’t say anything. Just listen to what I just said, right? Because I can’t have him answer any questions. And this wasn’t a question. This was a statement. Yeah. So that gives him food for thought, because you got to think, how would I know that? He doesn’t know at that point in time, this is an indictment. How do I know that? He doesn’t know who the cooperator is. He doesn’t know who made a recording. So I’m just throwing this at him. And this is the first time he’s hearing this. So it’s got to make him think, like, what else does this agent know? And I did this with the other charges as well. And then I would just throw these little tidbits at him. And then I would speak to the driver. How are you doing this? just give him food for thought. And then we just developed a bond that day, just talking sports back and forth. He actually was a cowboy fan. I’m a Steeler fan. So we have that little intensity going back and forth about that. And then we just developed a bond that day. I think that was the first time that he had an interaction with law enforcement, where it was more of a respect thing, as opposed to someone yelling at him or being contentious with him. I don’t think he’s ever or experienced that before. [17:27]Also because of his delivery as well, right? You know, it works both ways where you can, he can have his delivery really angry and that could, you know, provoke law enforcement to be angry towards him too. [17:43]The Proffer Process [17:40]So I think that helped it that way that day. And then just throughout the whole day. And I think one of the things that I do talk about within the book is just explaining processes to people, which is generally, I haven’t seen that done in a book before about how pretrial works. So what is pretrial? How cooperation works? How trial works? So I think there’s a lot of tidbits within the book that kind of explain things like that. Even some crimes, too. Like everyone hears what loan sharking is. I go into detail as to what loan sharking is and how it really works, because it’s a very profitable way to make money. So we have our day together. And, you know, then I had to meet his stepfather. I think he had heard that I treated his stepfather with respect. And then approximately a week later, I get a call from his lawyer and I basically almost fell out of my chair when his lawyer said he wanted to cooperate. [18:37]I bet. And then, yeah. And, you know, keep in mind, I’ve only been on the job for a year and I immediately call the assistant who is a seasoned assistant. Maria Barton, what was her name? And she’s really concerned, like, what did I say? Right. So I told her in these situations, less is more. I just told her I was going to call you. That’s all I said. I didn’t say anything else. Didn’t promise anything at all. I said I was going to call you. So, you know, that started with the process and then you go through a proffer. So I explained what the proffer is and how that process works. Interesting. Yeah. A proffer, guys is is like a kind of agreement you know and you you have to be totally open and admit to every crime you ever did and and we’ll cover you but to a certain point the basis you’ll lie down the basics. [19:31]Right. So what, you know, what we kind of like call it is queen for a day, right? Where you come in, we can’t use your words against you unless you lie to us, right? If you were, if you were to lie to us and then go, go to trial and, you know, we could, if you were to take the stand, we could, we could use it against you. But as long as you come in and you tell us the truth and you tell us everything, all the crimes that you’ve done. And the beauty of the mob is when they do a crime, they never do a crime alone, right? They involve a lot of people within a crime. So that’s the beauty of that. So when we have our first proffer, you know, in time, you only have a short amount of time to actually speak about this because you can only be away from jail for a certain amount of time right before the bad guys start to realize that something might be up. Right. So he comes in. And even even before that, on his on his way back, when we’re taking him back to 26 Federal Plaza, one of the things that he tells us is and it makes sense when we went to his house, he wasn’t there. He was at his mom’s house in the car ride back. He throws a little shot at me and he goes, we knew you were coming. [20:33]Meaning that there was a leak. They got a leak. Yeah. Right. So then when we have the first proffer, he explains the leak to us. And it appears allegedly there was a court reporter within the Southern District that was feeding them information. So that’s not good. And then in the proffer, he tells us about two murders. So, and there might be the bodies, a body might be buried up in Phil Lamella, who was a DeCalvo County soldier, up in Marlboro, New York. So that’s the first thing that he tells us. So these are jewels to us, right? He tells us about a leak. He tells us about two murders. Bodies might be buried. So we have to huddle and we have to decide, is he telling us the truth or not? We all decide that he’s telling us the truth. The proper takes place with George Hanna, as I mentioned him before. Kenny McCabe, a legendary Southern District investigator, and me. And in these situations, again, I’m a new agent. Less is more. I don’t want to say something stupid. So I kind of keep my mouth shut, right? And just listen. So that went really well. And that kind of started this whole process. So now, as we said before, you have… No one cooperated in 100 plus years of this family. And now we have the first [21:49]A Spiral of Cooperation [21:48]made member to cooperate. And basically, Anthony starts a spiral effect of cooperation. [21:56]After he where he reported to in the family at that particular time, since he was such a violent person and hard to control within the family himself. Well, he reported to Vincent Palermo, who was the acting panel boss out of that panel that I talked about, but viewed as the acting boss because of his strong personality. So you have Anthony cooperating. He reports to the acting boss. So from our perspective, our perspective, that’s golden, right? Because now Vinny is going to have to make a decision. Is he going to cooperate or not? And then about three months later, guess what? Vinny decides to cooperate. So now we have a soldier and we have the acting boss who’s going to cooperate. So we go from no one in a hundred years to basically two people in three months. [22:45]Then we have an associate, Victor DiChiro, decides to cooperate. So we go and we arrest him. So now we have three people in four months. So we take all their information, and they have to plead guilty, and they get a cooperation agreement. I explain all that. And when you have a cooperation agreement, as I mentioned before, Anthony was initially arrested for conspiracy to murder, and I believe it was stock fraud. When he pleads guilty, he has to plead guilty to all his crimes that he committed throughout his entire life. Off the top of my head, I remember he pled guilty to two murders. [23:23]11 murder conspiracies, boatload of extortions, and basically every other crime you could think of. And then the same thing with Vinny and Victor. We take all their information, and then we have our next series of indictments. So the first series was 39 indictments. And then the second series of indictments is in October of 2000, October 19th, which we just we just passed the 25th anniversary of that. And that was known as the hierarchy arrest, where we arrested the official boss, John Riggi. We arrested the two other panel bosses, Charlie Maggiore and Jimmy Palermo. We arrested the consigliere, Steve Vitabli, a bunch of captains and soldiers. So that’s a significant arrest, right? So now, as you know, when you have an arrest, there’s trials, there’s plea negotiations. So now we arrested 39 people plus another 13. We’re already up to like 50 something like something people out of that arrest. We get a little shockwave in the sense is that there’s an associate named Frank Scarabino. Frank Scarabino comes forward one day and tells us that there’s a contract on Anthony Capo’s family and Anthony Capo. [24:43]And also, there’s a contract on law enforcement. They want to go back to the old Sicilian ways and basically send a message. So, you know, that’s basically a little bit of a jolt where now we have to try to move Capo’s family. [25:03]Protecting Cooperators [24:59]And Capo’s in prison. He’s defenseless. And I explain all that. People have this sense of you go into the witness security program, you get a whole new life and you’re off and having a great time. They don’t realize that there are prisons within the United States that you have to go to prison. So I can’t say where the prisons are, but I kind of explain that process of how the WITSEC program works, which is run by the marshals. So that’s in that’s in the book as well. Yeah, they have a whole prisons that are just for people in WITSEC. I heard about a guy that said he was in one out west somewhere. Yeah. So and, you know, for those prisons, it’s not like you have to prove yourself. They’re all doing the same time. So they’re basically just trying to do their time and try to get out and get into the next phase of the WoodSec program. So that was kind of a jolt, right? So now we have Frank Scarabino cooperate. So now we have another person. So it’s the list is just getting more and more now. You got to stop taking cooperators and start putting people in jail for the rest of their life, man. [26:03]So it got to after that, we had like two more people cooperate. So we went from having nobody to having seven people cooperate in this period. And it’s interesting. And I know we’re going to go back and forth, but we went from 100 years of having no one to having seven people during this three year period. And since that time period, no other members have cooperated since. So we’ve started the clock again. I think we’re at 25 years plus again since no one cooperated during that period. And I mentioned the murder that we started this case, Joseph Canigliaro. So he was the guy that was in the wheelchair. So as I said, they wanted to kill him because he just tortured his crew. We were able, one of the guys who was initially arrested as part of the December 1999 arrest, he sees everybody’s, he is deciding to cooperate with the government. So he decides to cooperate. His name is Tommy DeTora. So Tommy DeTora decides to cooperate. He’s out on bail. So since he’s out on bail, we decide, let’s make him make a consensual recording. And he makes one of the best consensual recordings the Bureau has ever made. He gets everyone involved in that murder together. [27:28]And they talk about the murder from A to Z. It’s a priceless consensual recording that we used at trial. And it just, you know, one of the things that does stick in my mind is the shooter was Marty Lewis, who got a life sentence. [27:44]The Murder of Joseph Canigliaro [27:45]Marty Lewis is describing when he shot him. And he’s like, I shot him like five or six times in his car. Right. And then Marty Lewis gets out of the car. Joseph Canigliaro drives away, gets to the top of the block in Brooklyn, puts a signal on, put a signal on. And drove the traffic laws, drives to Joseph Wrightson’s house. A guy who was part of the murder conspiracy honks his horn for Joseph Wrightson to come downstairs. So can you imagine Joseph Wrightson looking down the window seeing the guy that’s supposed to be dead right now and telling him to get in the car to go to the hospital with him? [28:32]Unfortunately, when they go to the hospital one of the things that does happen is joseph brightson has uh unfortunately an nyp detective cop who’s a cousin and involves him in this as well and the cop takes shells from the car and he becomes he gets locked up by us as well they all go to trial they get convicted and. [28:55]You know, we also arrested a Genevieve’s captain related to the leak. So in total, I think the numbers were 71 defendants were convicted, 11 murders were solved, seven trials transpired. You know, as everyone knows, you have the arrest, but then you have the trials, right? And I know that from December 2002 up until November of 2003 was the year that I was on trial. There was three trials that I had, and then there was another trial. There was two trials that one was a mistrial. Then we had another trial. So during that one year, we had a year of trials, and the biggest trial I had went on for two months. [29:42]Life on Trial [29:38]So I basically had a year of no life where it was just trials. And as you know yourself, when you have trial, it’s not just you just show up at trial. You have trial prep beforehand. And then when you’re actually on trial every day, it’s 20, it’s 24, seven, you have a trial, you have trial, then at night you have to prep a witness. So there’s just constant stuff throughout the day. Yeah, really? It’s a, it’s a long, boring process for you guys. [30:05]You know, these are like what we would say the real Sopranos, you know, the Sopranos, Tom Soprano, and that’s kind of based on this New Jersey family. I tell you, that Soprano, so much of it was ripped from real life. I don’t know. They interviewed you for details. They interviewed some agents and looked some court cases in order to write those scripts. I know that. And in particular, I think of the gay member that was killed. [30:28]The Real Sopranos [30:27]You know, you guys had that down there. So there’s a lot of references in your book or things in the book that the guys will say, oh, yeah, they did that in the Sopranos. Can you tell us about some of them? [30:37]Well, the thing that was great, especially for trial, is in March of 1999, the show starts in January of 1999. And we have a consensual recording in March where we have DeCavocanti members talking about the show and them saying, saying, this is you, this is you, and this is you, which was priceless for trial. Right. It’s like a jury’s going to hear that. And even during the trial, the judge had to give the jury instructions about the show to make sure that it wouldn’t sway their decision. Then if you watch the show, the first season, the official boss in the show dies of stomach cancer. In real life, that’s happened in real life. In June of 1997, Jake Amari was the acting boss of the Decaval Canty family. He dies of stomach cancer. So that’s a… [31:40]It’s a part of the show right there. Then I know everyone sees the strip club, right? Well, the acting boss, as I told you at the time, Vincent Palermo, he had a strip club in Queens, Wiggles. [31:53]So there’s a similarity there. Then they have the meat market that they go to, right, back and forth in the show. That’s a real meat market. I don’t want to say the name of the real meat market here, but there is a real type of meat market there. We discussed the union angle, the two unions that they have. So there’s so many scams related to the unions. There’s the no show job, right, where you don’t have to show up to work. There’s the no work job where you come, but you don’t have to do any work at all. [32:26]Back then, what it was called was they had union halls, right, where you actually had to show up early in the morning. There’d be a line of people, and you would show up. It was called the shape up. and you would wait online and hopefully that you would get work that day. Well, the DeCable Cante members, they wouldn’t show up early and wait online. They would show up whenever they want and they would cut the line and they would get work. So these were their types of unions that they had. Then, as you mentioned, there was the gay angle too. So on the DeCable Cante real side, there was a guy named John D’Amato. And John D’Amato basically made himself the acting boss when John Riggie went to jail in the early 1990s. John D’Amato was part, was very close to John Gotti. There was a murder. It’s probably the most indictable murder in mob history called the murder of Fred Weiss. John Gotti wanted Fred Weiss killed because John Gotti thought that Fred Weiss was cooperating with the government. all because Fred Weiss switched lawyers. [33:35]He was paranoid that Fred Weiss was cooperating. So it became a race to kill Fred Weiss. So you had two mob families trying to kill him, the Decalvo Canty family and the Gambino family. So in total, I think either 15 people at least have either pled guilty or have been convicted of that murder. That murder happened on 9-11-1989, a horrible day, right? So, where I’m going is that happened in 89. In 1990, 1991, John D’Amato becomes the acting boss of the family. So, now he’s the acting boss of the DeKalb Alcanti family. John D’Amato had a girlfriend. His girlfriend starts to tell Anthony Capo that John D’Amato is going to sex clubs with her and they’re having sex with men. So this is this is brought to Anthony Capo’s attention. And he has to tell his superiors that we have a gay acting boss representing our family. And in his eyes, this cannot happen. Right. So he brings it to Vincent Palermo, brings it to Rudy Ferron, and the superiors that this is what’s happening. And they decide that he has to be killed. Now, also what he was doing was, and you speak to Anthony Rotondo, who also cooperated with the government. [34:58]John DeMotta was also stealing money from the family. He was borrowing money from the other families, telling him that it was for the DeCalbacanti family, but it was really to cover his game of the gambling losses that he was incurring. So those are two things that he was doing. Right. He was he was if you ask Anthony Rotondo, he says he was killed because of the gambling that he was incurring the losses. And if he asks Anthony Capo, he was killed because it was looking bad for our family, for their family, that he was a gay acting boss. And at that time, it wasn’t acceptable. Times have changed. But back then, it wasn’t an acceptable thing. And that’s similar to the show. There’s a gay angle within the show as well. [35:41]The Gay Angle in the Mob [35:42]Interesting. It’s the real Sopranos. I remember I watched that show, even going back and watch some of them every once in a while. And I just think, wow, that’s real. So, so even though the director says no one was speaking to them, it’s kind of ironic that there are a lot of like similarities between the show and real life. Yeah. And especially down there in New Jersey and, and, and their connection to the Bonanno family or to a New York, the New York families. And then also, and then also within the show is, is, is the stock stood. There’s also stocks. Oh yeah, the stock fraud. Yeah. They did a boiler room or something. And they were pumping and dumping stocks and Tony was making money out of that. So, yeah, that’s I’d forget. And then from and in real life, Bill Abrama was like the wizard of Wall Street. [36:37]So interesting. Well, you’ve had quite, quite a career. What do you think about New York organized crime now that today, you know, we just had quack, quack, Ruggiero, Ruggiero’s son and some other guys that were connected to families indicted for gambling. He’s got my gambling fraud. I haven’t really studied it yet. It is like they had some rig gambling games, which is common. Like in Kansas city, when I was working this, they would have, they would bring in guys who would love to gamble and had money businessmen. And then they’d, they’d play them for sure. They would cheat them and take a bunch of money from them. This was much more sophisticated, but that’s a, that’s a story that’s been going on a long time. You think that Bob is on a comeback from that? Ha, ha, ha, ha. [37:24]The mob has been around for 125 years. They’re not going to go away. Okay. They get smarter and they adapt. And it’s like, I haven’t read the indictment from head to toe, but they’ve used some, you know, sophisticated investigative techniques just to kind of con people. So they’re getting better, right? So some of the techniques that they use when you hear, it’s like some of the things that I saw where the poker tables that they use, the tables that they use were able to see the card. So they use some pretty, you know, slick techniques, you know, and then like some of the glasses or the contact lenses. So, you know, they’re not going to go away. They’re just going to keep on trying to rebuild. That’s why you have to continue to put resources towards them. Yeah. I think what people don’t understand for these mob guys, it’s if they don’t get out and go into legitimate business selling real estate or something like that. It’s it’s a constant scam a constant hustle every day to figure out another way to make money because they don’t have a paycheck coming in and so they got to figure out a way to make money and they got to make it fast and they got to make it big and in a short period of time it’s just constant every day every time they walk by knew a drug addict one time as a professional burglar and he said every time he’s in recovery he said every time i’ll buy a pharmacy he said in my mind I’m figuring out how to take that pharmacy off. So that’s the way these mob guys are. [38:52]And sports betting has been a staple of theirs forever. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And the apps are getting into them a little bit, but I see what’s going on now. Also, we had these players, Trailblazers coach and a couple, three players, are now helping people rig the bets. And you go to the apps, and you bet a bunch of money on some guy who’s going to have a bad day. And then he just doesn’t show up to work. You end up being the supervisor of the Columbo squad, I see. Same as after that DeCavoconte case, and you spent all that time, you ended up getting promoted to a supervisor and you must’ve been good because they kept you right there in New York and gave you another mob squad. I know one agent here in Kansas City that was promoted and he kept the one squad here, as they called it. [39:43]Leading the Columbo Squad [39:40]And that was really unusual. Usually it’d be somebody in from out of town. So that says something about you. So tell us about your experiences doing that. [39:48]Well, after we did this case, which was about six years, I was requested to go down to run the Columbo squad. And at that time, I think the Columbo squad had eight supervisors in eight years. I really thought I was too young to be a supervisor because I only had six years on. So I was basically voluntold, I would say, to go down there. And guys, that is young. I want to tell you something. I’ve seen a lot of different Bob squad supervisors come through here in Kansas City. And and they were all you know like 20 year agents 15 18 year agents that came from somewhere else so yeah so you know again I thought I was just way too young to be a supervisor as I said I was just on the job for about six years and I was voluntold to go down there yeah and I said if I’m going to go down there there’s a couple of things just based upon what I saw a I’m not a yes man and two the squad needs some sort of stability so I went down there and I was able to stay there I was there from actually December of 2004 all the way up until June of 2013. [40:51]So we at that time when I first got there we really didn’t have a lot of cases going trying to go on so I was able to change the tactics right because I think juries had changed at that point in time where instead of having a historical witness just go on to stand and tell things, now we had shows out there, right? You had NCIS where the whole DNA-type stuff came in, so I had to change our approach, and proactive witnesses making consensual recordings were the way to go. And I think during a seven-year time period, our squad. [41:24]Did an amazing job. Now it went from C10. I went, the squad went down to, it became C38. And we made probably 1,800 recordings in a seven and a half year time period. So, which is an amazing amount of recordings. So, a lot of transcriptions too. A lot of transcriptions. And I, you know, a three-hour tape could take you a day to listen to because you’re just trying to find that little piece of information. Yeah. Because a lot of it is just talk, right? Yeah. So I think our first big case was in June of 2008. And we took down the acting boss, a bunch of captains. And that’s when things really started to take off. We had a violent soldier cooperate named Joseph Compatiello. And, you know, we talk about proffers. His first proffer, he comes in and he basically tells us that there are three bodies buried right next to each other. So the layman would think, OK, they’re right next to each other. They weren’t right next to each other they were about 1.1 miles apart from each other. [42:28]And you could be in your your room there and we’re trying to find a body it’s really hard to find so we were actually able to find two of the bodies one of the bodies was a guy named while Bill Cattullo he was the under boss of the Colombo family we found him in Formingdale Long Island he was behind a berm we were out there for about eight days and each day you know I’m getting pressure from my superiors. We’re going to find something because there’s a lot of press out there. There was another victim named Cormone Gargano who was buried. He was killed in 1994 and buried out there. Unfortunately, there was a new building built. [43:06]And we could not find him there, but he was initially killed at a body shop in Brooklyn, and they buried him in Brooklyn, and then they decided to dig him up and bring him out to Long Island. So we went back to the body shop. What the Colombo family used to do, though, is they used to kill you, bury you, and put lime on top of the body. What lime does is it kills the smell, but preserves the body. Oh, I didn’t realize that. I thought it was supposed to deteriorate the body too. I think most people bought that. So good information. So, so when we found wall of bill, basically from his, from his hips up were intact. Oh, And when related to Cormier Gargano, because they had killed him in the body shop and then dug him up and brought him out to Long Island. We went back to the shop and figuring, let’s see if we can actually see if there’s any parts of him there. And there actually were. And we’re able to get DNA and tie it back and confirm it was him. [44:15]Major Arrests and Cases [44:12]So that’s how that dismantling of the Colombo family started. And then just to fast forward a little bit in January 2011, we have I spearhead the largest FBI mob arrest where we arrested 127 people that day across the states and also went to Italy, too, to take down people. [44:32]And after that, the Bureau decides to reduce the resources dedicated to organized crime. And I then get the Bonanno family back. So C-10 merges back into my squad. And then I have the Bananos, the Columbos, and the Decafacanthes as well. So now I have all three families back. And I basically run that for another two years. And I guess my last official act as a supervisor is related to Goodfellas, where Jimmy Burke had buried a body in his basement. We saw a 43-year-old cold case murder where he killed an individual named Paul Katz, buried him in his basement. And when he went away for the point shaving, the Boston College point shaving case, well, he killed him in 1969, buried him in his basement. Then he goes to jail in the 80s. He gets fearful that the cops that he had on his payroll back in the 60s were going to talk. So he decides to have our witness at the time, Gaspar Valenti, who came forward back in the 80s, moved the body with Vincent S. Our son so they move the body but again they’re not professional so pieces are going to be back there so in 2013 we go back and we dig and we actually find pieces of paul cats and we tie that to dna to his son to his son and we confirm that it was him. [45:57]So that was my last official act as a supervisor. Talk about art, art, imitating life again, you know, in the Goodfellas, they dug up a body. In the Sopranos, they dug up a body. I think I saw another show where they dug up a body. One of them, they were like, man, this smells. [46:13]I mean, can you imagine that going back and having to dig up a body? And then, you know, and, you know, they’re just wearing t-shirts and jeans and maybe leather gloves. And they’d have to deal with all that stuff and put it in some kind of a bag can take it somewhere else oh my god you know i have a question while bill cutello that this guy was part of the the hit team that took him out do you remember anything about right i’m trying to remember i’ve read this story once he was kind of like more of a peacemaker and and if i remember right you remember what the deal was with him well back like what happens is in the early 1990s there’s a colombo war right you have the persicos versus the arena faction and one thing about the Colombos and the Persicos, they never forget. So in the early 1990s, while Bill Cotullo was on the arena side, and as I said, there was a war where approximately 13 people were killed. In the late 1990s, Ali Persico was going to be going to jail, and while Bill Cotullo thought that Ali was going to go to jail and that he would take over the family, Ali didn’t want that to happen. So basically while Vilcunzulo thought he was getting the keys to the kingdom and they were going to kill him. [47:28]And what they did is they lured him to Dino Saraceno’s house in Brooklyn and Dino Calabro lured him into the basement and shot him in the back of the head. And we had all these guys then decide to cooperate. As I said, Joe Caves was the first person to cooperate. Dino Calabro cooperated. [47:48]Sebi Saraceno cooperated. So we had a whole host of people cooperate and we were able to dismantle the Colombo family. And I’ve been extremely blessed to be part of teams that have dismantled three families, Bananos, the Columbos, and the D. Calacanti family. So, you know, as I said, and it’s never just one person. It’s always teammates, partners, and also other supervisors that I’ve had. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, it does take a lot of people to take those down. When you’re writing books, you try to make sure everybody gets a little bit of credit. Yeah. And, you know, I think, you know, the thing that was that was, you know, crazy when related to the recovery of Wild Bill is we had our evidence response team out there. And, you know, the witness takes us out there to show us where he thinks the bodies are buried. And related to Wild Bill, it was in the back of a field. And he kept on saying it was behind a berm. So we took him back there and he showed us where he thought it was. So we had our evidence response team dig. And they basically dug us an Olympic-sized pool. [48:57]We could not find him. So there was two other sites that we were trying to look at because Richie Greaves was supposed to be next to the train tracks. And as I mentioned, Cormac Gargano was next to a building that had been replaced. So my squad, actually our squad, C-38, decides, Seamus, do you mind if we get some shovels? So I was like, sure. So there was, because we were just looking at each other at the time. So my team, Vincent D’Agostino, they’re pretty close by. He got some shovels and came back. And there was like six of us. And we just started digging ourselves. So we dug in one area, nothing. Then another agent basically said, let’s dig over here. [49:38]And sure enough, like talk about, you know, I always say hard work leads to good luck. We started digging and then we found the white stuff. We found the line and jackpot. It was while Bill, he was hogtied face down with his feet up. And as soon as I saw the white stuff and then I saw, you know, like his foot, then we stopped and I said, let me go get the professionals. I ran over, I drove over, and I got the team leader from ERT. She got in the car. And, you know, of course, she’s very excited. I was like, you know, we F.M. got him, you know. And so I drove her back over there. And that’s when you kind of contain the crime scene. And we were able to find him. But, you know, it was our squad that found him. And then, as I said before, then, you know, our squad decides to go back to the body shop. And we found remnants of Carmine Gargano there. So the squad just did an amazing job but really we basically found two bodies ourselves you know and i think in my career i’ve been extremely blessed to find five you know which is just crazy well that’s not something those accountants and lawyers and stuff were trained for you need to get those former cops out there on those shovels and digging for bodies. [50:57]Final Thoughts and Stories [50:57]Well interesting this this has really been fun seamus any any other stories you can think of You want to you want to just want to tell just busting to make sure people know that’s in this book. I tell you what, guys, this is an interesting book. It’s it’s, you know, as I said, those kinds of stories and the procedures and how FBI works. There’s there’s a lot of stories in there. I don’t want to give to give the book away. You know, there’s a lot of stories even. Yeah. You know, there’s an even during that year of trials. There’s plenty of stories there. There was a blackout that that year, too. So there’s a lot of stories related to that. You know, even even the trials, there’s a lot of things that came up at trial. So I don’t want to give to give those stories away. But I think it’s a good read. As I said, I think it’s one of the few books that actually explains things because, you know, I think the public hears these words, but they don’t know what these words mean. And I just think it’s important that they do know what it means, because there’s a lot of things that go on behind the scenes, especially with the jury. Right. You know, the jury only sees what they see. There’s a lot of things that go on when the jury leaves the room between the government, the judge and also the defense attorney. So I try to bring to shed some light related to that as well. [52:13]Interesting. Well, Seamus McElherney. And the book is Flipping Capo. That’s Anthony Capo. The first guy to be flipped in the Cavalcante family ever, which led to a cascade of other mob guys flipping, didn’t it? [52:32]Sure did. Just like in a Bonanno family, you know, they start flipping there. And it just, I didn’t know where it was ever going to end. Finally, it ended. [52:41]It sure did. Well, I have to say, it’s been great to meet you. I wish you continued success. And this has been a lot of fun. All right. Yeah, it’s been great to have you on Seamus. Thanks a lot. Don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So when you’re out on the streets there and you’re a big F-150, watch out for those little motorcycles when you’re out. If you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to the VA website. They’ll help with your drugs and alcohol problem if you’ve got that problem or gambling. If not, you can go to Anthony Ruggiano. He’s a counselor down in Florida. He’s got a hotline on his website. If you’ve got a problem with gambling, most states will have, if you have gambling, most states will have a hotline number to call. Just have to search around for it. You know, I’ve always got stuff to sell. I got my books. I got my movies. They’re all on Amazon. I got links down below in the show notes and just go to my Amazon sales page and you can figure out what to do. I really appreciate y’all tuning in and we’ll keep coming back and doing this. Thanks guys.

Acts 21:15-36   15 After these days we got ready and went up to Jerusalem. 16 And some of the disciples from Caesarea went with us, bringing us to the house of Mnason of Cyprus, an early disciple, with whom we should lodge.            17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law, 21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. 22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law. 25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality." 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.            27 When the seven days were almost completed, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who is teaching everyone everywhere against the people and the law and this place. Moreover, he even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." 29 For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, and they supposed that Paul had brought him into the temple. 30 Then all the city was stirred up, and the people ran together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut. 31 And as they were seeking to kill him, word came to the tribune of the cohort that all Jerusalem was in confusion. 32 He at once took soldiers and centurions and ran down to them. And when they saw the tribune and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul. 33 Then the tribune came up and arrested him and ordered him to be bound with two chains. He inquired who he was and what he had done. 34 Some in the crowd were shouting one thing, some another. And as he could not learn the facts because of the uproar, he ordered him to be brought into the barracks. 35 And when he came to the steps, he was actually carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the crowd, 36 for the mob of the people followed, crying out, "Away with him!"   Key Words: God, Ministry, Glorify, Jew, Gentile, Law, Temple, Mob, Violence, Bound Keystone Verses: And when he came to the steps, he was actually carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the crowd, for the mob of the people followed, crying out, "Away with him!" (Acts 21:35-36)   Download Bulletin

Episode 223: In this episode, Mark is joined by Hip Hop artist and frequent guest from Rochester New York, M Doc Diego. We discuss his new EP with Skinny Bonez Tha Godfatha "The Godfather And The Don 3".  We also talk about reactions he's gotten for the EP, Mob movies, "Belly", working with artists like Piff Penny and other artists, doing music with his father- G Nyce and the scene in Rochester. Mark also talks about how years ago, he mistakenly watched “The Godfather 2” in reverse order on VHSCheck out the EP on Bandcamp here- https://skinnybonezthagodfatha.bandcamp.com/album/the-godfather-the-don-3Exclusive deal for listeners of The Infinite Banter Podcast, get a discount on your entire order when you use the link- http://circlehousecoffeeonline.com/discount/mark10Watch "Things and Stuff” where Mark reviews collectibles on The Infinite Banter Youtube channel. Direct link for current video- https://youtu.be/TvQro7ftL7Y?si=ZNyFYV7n_UHj78kOCheck out our sponsor Super 7, for the latest in action figures and merch featuring pop culture icons. Click the link for the latest figures and more- https://super7.com/INFINITEBANTERPODCAST

Valve's Steam Machine, GTA VI Delay, Halo on PS5 + Anime Character Pokémon Teams Have you ever looked at an anime character and wondered to yourself, "What would their Pokemon team be?" Well, you're in luck! Tune in this week to see as Cole, Mike, and Jay give Pokemon teams to anime characters assigned to them by the other guys!Also, the GameCube makes a shocking return, the console wars may be over, GTA 6 is getting delayed, and more!Topics & Timestamps:00:00 – AniProPod 207 Intro & Episode Overview08:33 – Valve's Steam Machine Revealed (GabeCube)17:48 – Console Talk: Xbox vs Sega & Future of Gaming24:15 – Halo Coming to PS5: What This Means29:49 – GTA VI Delayed: New Release Info37:15 – Mailbag: Fall Footwear Debate – Boots or Shoes?43:13 – Second Half Teaser: Pokémon Teams for Anime Characters48:30 – Mob's Pokémon Team & Strategy Analysis53:31 – Levi Ackerman's Pokémon Team Breakdown59:09 – Kirito's Pokémon Team: Picks & Battle Style01:08:00 – Holo the Wise Wolf's Pokémon Team & Tactics01:13:55 – Senku Ishigami's Pokémon Team & Science Strategy01:21:31 – Yuu Ishigami's Pokémon Team Explained01:29:00 – Episode Wrap-Up & Next Time on AniProPodSupport AniPro:Patreon – https://www.patreon.com/AniProPodMailbag – https://anipropod.com/mailbagTokyoTreat ($5 off) – Use code "ANIPRO" for $5 off your first #TokyoTreat box: https://team.tokyotreat.com/AniProFollow & Subscribe:X (Twitter) – https://twitter.com/AniProPodInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/anipropodDiscord – https://discord.gg/dV5tMCWvM7Next Reviews:Anime – Golden Kamuy → Elfen Lied → Now and Then, Here and ThereManga – Ichi the Witch → Black Torch Music & Credits:Opening Theme – “Shibuya” Bumper Track – "Retired Betamax" by "Pandicio Del Toro"Music licensed via – slip.streamEnjoying the show? If so, please rate & review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify – it only takes a moment and helps new listeners find us!

Brim, Mr. Greer and Kim Adragna are back at it again. Apart from all the usual shenanigans, the gang chats about everything pop culture with all the trimmings including how there is a lunatic who keeps attacking celebrities for social media numbers, and he most recently went after Ariana Grande. The crew also chats about the Whittiker Family - who is the most inbred family in the United States, the beauty pageant winner who sings Death Metal, and how the maxi-pad company, Always - are taking heat for allegedly having mold in them. The cast talks about the football ticket escapade, Brazilian Butt Lift odor, plastic surgeries and the largest breasts in the world. They talk about Disney and AI backlash, ElevenLabs and the future of voiceover, and a possible Jessica Rabbit solo film. The crew also discusses Now You See Me 3, the Mob and Kim's last name, as well as Tom's bathroom story. The crew chats about entertainment news, opinions and other cool stuff and things. Enjoy.Wherever you listen to podcasts & www.thegrindhouseradio.comhttps://linktr.ee/thegrindhouseradio

Watch all of our Hamamoto videos here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPT_cCpNMvT60BzykDhdZyU2AmVg7rLy6 Hamamoto on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@professorhamamoto Prof. Darrell Hamamoto, who is an American writer, academic, and specialist in U.S. media and ethnic studies. Professors Facebook :  https://www.facebook.com/share/hZajgCgTANc3kWbd/?mibextid=LQQJ4d Follow Lauren The Insider online:

Oscar-Winning legend Martin Scorsese (Killers of the Flower Moon, Taxi Driver, The Departed) directs this epic tale about The Rise and Fall of the Mob in Las Vegas, based on true events.  It's the story of how mafia handicapper Sam "Ace" Rothstein (Robert DeNiro) took over the Tangiers casino on The Strip and helped bring it to unprecendented sucess, helped by mafia enforcer Nicky Santoro (Joe Pesci).  He falls in love with a local hustler named Ginger McKenna (Sharon Stone) and over time, their relationship deteriorates as does his handle on many crazy things being done by Nicky....and eventually the Mob no longer had power in Las Vegas.  Nominated for one Oscar (Sharon Stone, Best Actress), this was initially met with some disappointment upon release as many compared it to Scorsese's similarly themed classic mob epic Goodfellas from five years prior.  Over time, its reputation has grown thanks to several memorable scenes and performances - the stacked cast also includes James Woods, Don Rickles, Kevin Pollak, Alan King, and Frank Vincent.Host: Geoff GershonEdited By Ella GershonProducer: Marlene Gershon Send us a textSupport the showhttps://livingforthecinema.com/Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/Living-for-the-Cinema-Podcast-101167838847578Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/livingforthecinema/Letterboxd:https://letterboxd.com/Living4Cinema/

Our friend Tarra (who is definitely not a vampire) returns to tackle the fifty-second chapter of Varney the Vampire, wherein the chapter title promises The Interview Between the Mob and Sir Francis Varney, the Mysterious Disappearance, and the Wine Cellars. Varney the Vampire is a genuine penny dreadful, read aloud one chapter per week just like the original Victorian audience would do for the authentic 1840s coffeehouse experience. To instantly unlock over a hundred more chapters (literally), check out our Patreon.

Join us LIVE tonight at 7pm EST to kick off our Independent Research Month! We have a great show planned with returning guest and friend of the show, Carmine Savastano! For everything Carmine related, check out the links below...TPAAK Website - https://www.tpaak.com/Amazon Books - https://www.amazon.com/stores/Carmine-Savastano/author/B019M54V4E?ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=trueSilk City Hot Sauce - https://silkcityhotsauce.com Use our code GUNMAN for 20% off entire order!The COLDEST Cup - https://snwbl.io/TLG10 Use the link for $10 off each cup!Music By - Lee Harold OswaldA Loose Moose ProductionBBB&JOEBBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-lone-gunman-podcast-jfk-assassination--1181353/support.

On this week's Tall Boy Radio, hosts Gaz and Beans are honoured to welcome a titan of criminal investigation, Retired Lieutenant Commander Vernon Geberth, to delve deep into one of the most sprawling, intricate, and utterly frustrating cases he ever tackled. This is the unbelievable true story of "Operation Octopus," a fascinating chapter pulled directly from the pages of his essential book, The Godfather of Homicide.Get ready for a comprehensive breakdown of a case that began innocently enough but quickly metastasized into a terrifying, multi-layered criminal enterprise. We start at the supposed centre: a deadly, planned store robbery murder plot. Gaz and Beans press Vernon on how the immediate aftermath of that violent scene hinted at something much bigger, prompting his team to pull at a thread that quickly unravelled the tapestry of organised crime.Vernon shares the fascinating details of how that single planned robbery and murder exposed a massive operation involving the upper echelons of the Mafia. This wasn't just low-level thugs; this was a sophisticated ring dealing in multiple high-stakes crimes. Central to the investigation was a staggering amount of counterfeit money flooding the region—a clue that immediately brought the formidable resources of the Secret Service into the fray. Geberth details the critical, often tense, partnership with the federal agents tasked with tracing the origins and distribution of the funny money.Beyond the paper trail, the Octopus had its tentacles deep in drug trafficking. We explore the dangerous world of undercover operations Vernon's team had to execute, putting agents in genuine, life-threatening peril to infiltrate both the counterfeiting and narcotics distribution networks. Geberth gives listeners a rare look behind the scenes, discussing the immense logistical challenges of running parallel stings and the meticulous planning required to keep sources alive.But as with any great true-crime saga, the enemy wasn't just the Mob. Vernon pulls no punches when recounting the persistent, crippling interference from above. He details the specific challenges posed by incompetent supervisors and the internal bureaucracy that repeatedly threatened to pull the plug on the investigation. Hear the moments where the entire case hung by a thread, jeopardised not by a criminal act, but by incompetence from the guy that you report into. Gaz and Beans explore the mental toll this internal struggle took on the detectives trying to bring a major criminal operation down while simultaneously battling their own command structure.Operation Octopus is a gripping testament to relentless detective work, bureaucratic warfare, and the unwavering dedication required to dismantle a criminal empire. It's a classic Geberth case that proves the reality of homicide investigation is often far stranger, more frustrating, and more exhilarating than any fiction. Tune in for the full, detailed account of this epic saga.Buy Vernon's book hereTHE GODFATHER OF HOMICIDE: VERNON J. GEBERTH A COP'S COP eBook : Cardillo, Vince: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Storetallboyradio.com

Send us a text"Let your curiosity outweigh your fear," says Kate Glantz co-founder of the new women-in-the-trades initiative, Move Over Bob. She is joined by her MOB partner, Angie Cacace to discuss this new anthem.Visit our sponsor at www.webstonevalves.comSubscribe to the Appetite for Construction podcast at any of your favorite streaming channels and don't forget about the other ways to interact with the Mechanical Hub Team! Follow Plumbing Perspective IG @plumbing_perspective Follow Mechanical Hub IG @mechanicalhub Sign up for our newsletter at www.mechanical-hub.com/enewsletter Visit our websites at www.mechanical-hub.com and www.plumbingperspective.com Send John and Tim your feedback or topic ideas: @plumbing_perspective

The path to progressing as a leader isn't always linear. SUMMARY Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott shows how a childhood dream can evolve into a lifetime of impact—from commanding in uniform to leading innovation in healthcare and national defense. Hear more on Long Blue Leadership. Listen now!   SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   MIKE'S LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS A leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest person in the room. Striving for a lack of hubris is essential in leadership. Setting a clear vision is a fundamental leadership skill. Moving people without authority is crucial for effective leadership. Resource management is key to achieving organizational goals. Acknowledging what you don't know is a strength in leadership. Effective leaders focus on guiding their teams rather than asserting dominance. Leadership is about influencing and inspiring others. A successful mission requires collaboration and shared vision. True leadership is about empowering others to succeed.   CHAPTERS 00:00: Early Inspiration 06:32: Academy Years 13:17: Military Career Transition 21:33: Financial Services Journey 31:29: MOBE and Healthcare Innovation 40:12: Defense Innovation Unit 48:42: Philanthropy and Community Impact 58:11: Personal Growth and Leadership Lessons   ABOUT MIKE OTT BIO Mike Ott is the Chief Executive Officer of MOBĒ, a U.S.-based company focused on whole-person health and care-management solutions. He became CEO in April 2022, taking the helm to lead the company through growth and operational excellence following a distinguished career in both the military and corporate sectors.  A graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, Mike served as a Colonel in the U.S. Air Force Reserves before shifting into financial services and healthcare leadership roles including private wealth management at U.S. Bank and executive positions with UnitedHealth Group/Optum. His leadership ethos emphasizes alignment, acceleration, and human potential, building cultures where teams can thrive and leveraging data-driven models to improve health outcomes.   CONNECT WITH MIKE LinkedIn MOBE CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Ted Robertson | Producer:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org    Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott '85  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   FULL TRANSCRIPT Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 A quick programming note before we begin this episode of Long Blue Leadership: This episode will be audio-only, so sit back and enjoy the listen. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Today, on Long Blue Leadership, we welcome Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott, Class of 1985, a leader whose vision was sparked at just 9 years old during a family road trip past the Air Force Academy. That childhood dream carried him through a 24-year Air Force career, culminating in retirement as a colonel and into a life of leadership across business, innovation and philanthropy. Mike is the CEO of MOBE, a groundbreaking company that uses data analytics and a revolutionary pay-for-results model to improve health outcomes while reducing costs. He also serves as a senior adviser to the Defense Innovation Unit, supporting the secretary of defense in accelerating commercial innovation for national security. A member of the Forbes Councils, Mike shares his expertise with leaders around the world. A former Falcon Foundation trustee and longtime supporter of the Academy, Mike has given generously his time, talents and resources to strengthen the Long Blue Line. His story is one of innovation and service in uniform, in the marketplace and in his community. Mike, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad to have you here.   Mike Ott 1:29 Naviere, thanks a ton. I'm glad to be here. Naviere Walkewicz 1:31 Yes, yes. Well, we're really excited. I mean, you're here for your 40th reunion.   Mike Ott 1:35 Yeah, it's crazy.   Naviere Walkewicz1:37 You came right in, and we're so pleased that you would join us here first for this podcast.   Mike Ott 1:39 Right on. Thanks for the time.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:41 Absolutely. Well, let's jump right in, because not many people can say at 9 years old they know what they want to do when they grew up, but you did. Mike Ott 1:48 Yeah. I guess some people can say it; might not be true, but for me, it's true, good or bad. And goodness gracious, right? Here for my 40th reunion, do the math team, and as a 9-year-old, that was 1972, And a lot was going on in the world in 1972 whether it was political unrest, Vietnam and all of that, and the Academy was in the thick of it. And so we had gone — It was our first significant family vacation. My father was a Chicago policeman. We drove in the 1968 Buick LaSabre, almost straight through. Stopped, stayed at a Holiday Inn, destination Colorado, simply, just because nobody had ever seen the mountains before. That was why. And we my parents, mom, mom and dad took myself. I have two younger sisters, Pikes Peak, Academy, Garden of the Gods, Royal Gorge. And I remember noon meal formation, and the bell going off. Guys at the time — we hadn't had women as cadets at that point in time — running out in their flight suits as I recall lining up ready to go. And for me, it was the energy, right, the sense of, “Wow, this is something important.” I didn't know exactly how important it was, but I knew it was important, and I could envision even at that age, there was they were doing good, Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Wow. Nine years old, your family went on vacation, and it just struck you as this is important and something that I want to do. So what did that conversation look like after that experience that you had as a 9-year-old and kind of manifest this in yourself? How did that go with your parents? Mike Ott 3:36 Well, I didn't say too much about it, as I was in grammar school, but as high school hit, you know, I let my folks know what my plans were, and I had mom and dad — my mother's still alive, my father passed about a year ago. Very, very good, hard-working, ethical people, but hadn't gone to college, and we had been told, “Look, you know, you need to get an education.” They couldn't. I wish they had. They were both very, very, very bright, and so I knew college was a plan. I also knew there wasn't a lot of money to pay for it. So I'm certain that that helped bake in a few things. But as I got into high school, I set my sights. I went to public high school in Chicago, and I remember freshman year walking into my counselor's office, and said, “I want to go to the Air Force Academy,” and he kind of laughed.   Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Really?   Mike Ott 3:22 Well, we had 700 kids in my class, and maybe 40% went on to college, right? And the bulk of them went to community college or a state school. I can count on one hand the number of folks that went to an academy or an Ivy League school or something of that. So it was it was around exposure. It had nothing to do with intelligence. It was exposure and just what these communities were accustomed to. A lot of folks went into the trades and pieces like that. So my counselor's reaction wasn't one of shock or surprise insofar as that's impossible. It was, “We haven't had a lot of people make that commitment this early on, and I'm glad to help.”   Naviere Walkewicz 5:18 Oh, I love that.   Mike Ott 5:19 Which is wonderful, and what I had known at the time, Mr. Needham...   Naviere Walkewicz 5:23 You Remember his name?   Mike Ott 5:24 Yeah, he was in the Navy Reserves. He was an officer, so he got the joke. He got the joke and helped me work through what classes to take, how to push myself. I didn't need too much guidance there. I determined, “Well, I've got to distinguish myself.” And I like to lean in. I like a headwind, and I don't mind a little bit of an uphill battle, because once you get up there, you feel great. I owe an awful lot to him. And, not the superintendent, but the principal of our school was a gentleman named Sam Ozaki, and Sam was Japanese American interned during World War II as a young man, got to of service age and volunteered and became a lieutenant in the Army and served in World War II in Europe, right, not in Asia. So he saw something in me. He too became an advocate. He too became someone that sought to endorse, support or otherwise guide me. Once I made that claim that I was going to go to the Academy. Naviere Walkewicz 6:30 Wow. So you mentioned something that really stuck with me. You said, you know, you didn't mind kind of putting yourself out there and doing the hard things, because you knew when you got to the top it was going to feel really great. Was that something you saw from your father? Was that something, there are key leaders in your life that emulated that? Or is that just something that you always had in yourself? Mike Ott 6:51 I would say there's certainly an environmental element to it — how I was raised, what I was exposed to, and then juxtaposition as to what I observed with other family members or other parts of the community where things didn't work out very well, right? And, you know, I put two and two together. y father demonstrated, throughout his entire career what it means to have a great work ethic. As did mom and, you know, big, tough Chicago cop for 37 years. But the other thing that I learned was kindness, and you wouldn't expect to learn that from the big, tough Chicago cop, but I think it was environment, observing what didn't occur very often and how hard work, if I apply myself, can create outcomes that are going to be more fulfilling for me. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Wow, you talked about kindness. How did you see kindness show up in your journey as a cadet at the Air Force Academy? Or did you? Mike Ott 7:58 Yeah, gosh, so I remember, started in June of 1981, OK, and still connected with many of the guys and women that with whom I went to basic training and all that. The first moment of kindness that I experienced that it was a mutual expression, but one where I recognized, “Wow, every one of us is new here. None of us has a real clue.” We might have some idea because we had somebody had a sibling or a mother that was in the military or father that went to the academy at the time, but none of us really knew, right? We were knuckleheads, right? Eighteen years old. Maybe there were a couple of prior-enlisted folks. I don't recall much of that, but I having gone to a public high school in Chicago, where we had a variety of different ethnicities. I learned how to just understand people for who they are, meet them for who they are, and respect every individual. That's how I was raised, and that's how I exhibited myself, I sought to conduct myself in high school. So I get to the Academy, and you're assigned, you know, the first couple three nights, the first few weeks before you go to Jacks Valley, you're assigned. It was all a alphabetical, and my roommate was an African American fellow named Kevin Nixon. All right, my God, Kevin Nixon, and this guy, he was built. I mean, he was rock solid, right? And he had that 1000-yard stare, right? Very intimidating. And I'm this, like, 6-foot-tall, 148-pound runner, like, holy dork, right? And I'm assigned — we're roommates, and he just had a very stoicism, or a stoic nature about him. And I remember, it was our second night at the Academy, maybe first night, I don't quite recall, and we're in bed, and it's an hour after lights out, and I hear him crying, and like, well, what do you do? Like, we're in this together. It was that moment, like we're both alone, but we're not right. He needs to know that he's not alone. So I walked around and went over his bed, and I said, “Hey, man, I miss my mom and dad too. Let's talk. And we both cried, right? And I'll tell you what, he and I were pals forever. It was really quite beautiful. And what didn't happen is he accepted my outreach, right? And he came from a very difficult environment, one where I'm certain there was far more racial strife than I had experienced in Chicago. He came from Norfolk, Virginia, and he came from — his father worked in the shipyards and really, really tough, tough, tough background. He deserved to be the Academy. He was a great guy, very bright, and so we became friends, and I tried to be kind. He accepted that kindness and reciprocated in ways where he created a pretty beautiful friendship. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Oh, my goodness. Thank you for sharing that story. And you got me in the feels a little bit, because I remember those nights, even you know me having family members that went through the Academy. There's just something about when you're in it yourself, and in that moment, it's raw.   Mike Ott 11:13 Raw is a good word. Naviere Walkewicz 11:15 Oh, thank you for that. So you're at the Academy and you end up doing 24 years. I don't mean to, like, mash all that into one sentence, but let's talk… Mike Ott 11:22 I didn't do very much. It was the same year repeated 24 times over. Like, not a very good learner, right? Not a very good learner. Naviere Walkewicz 11:30 Yeah, I was gonna ask, you know, in that journey, because, had you planned to do a career in the Air Force? Mike Ott 11:36 Well, I didn't know, right? I went in, eyes wide open, and my cumulative time in the Air Force is over 24 but it was only it was just shy of seven active duty, and then 22, 23, in the Reserves, right? I hadn't thought about the Reserves, but I had concluded, probably at the, oh, maybe three-year mark that I wanted to do other things. It had nothing to do with disdain, a sense of frustration or any indignation, having gone to the Academy, which I'm very, very proud of, and it meant an awful lot to who I am. But it was, “Wait, this is, this is my shot, and I'm going to go try other things.” I love ambiguity, I'm very curious. Have a growth mindset and have a perhaps paradoxical mix of being self-assured, but perhaps early on, a bit too, a bit too, what's the word I was thinking of? I wrote this down — a bit too measured, OK, in other words, risk taking. And there were a few instances where I realized, “Hey, man, dude, take some risk. What's the downside? And if it isn't you, who else?” So it was that mindset that helped me muscle through and determine that, coupled with the fact that the Air Force paid for me to go to graduate school, they had programs in Boston, and so I got an MBA, and I did that at night. I had a great commander who let me take classes during the day when I wasn't traveling. It was wonderful. It was there that I was exposed to elements of business and in financial services, which ultimately drew me into financial services when I separated from active duty. Naviere Walkewicz 13:17 Well, I love that, because first you talked about a commander that saw, “How can I help you be your best version of yourself?” And I think the other piece of financial service, because I had to dabble in that as well — the second word is service. And so you've never stopped serving in all the things that you've done. So you took that leap, that risk. Is that something that you felt developed while you're at the Academy, or it's just part of your ethos. Mike Ott 13:41 It developed. It matured. I learned how to apply it more meaningfully at the Academy after a couple, three moments, where I realized that I can talk a little bit about mentoring and then I can come back to that, but mentoring — I don't know, I don't recall having heard that term as a mechanism for helping someone develop. I'm sure we used it when I was a cadet at the Academy and out of the Academy, and having been gone through different programs and banking and different graduate programs, the term comes up an awful lot. You realize, wow, there's something there helping the next generation, but also the reciprocity of learning from that generation yourself. I didn't really understand the whole mentoring concept coming out of Chicago and getting here, and just thought things were very hierarchical, very, very command structure, and it was hit the standards or else. And that that's not a bad mindset, right? But it took me a little while to figure out that there's a goodness factor that comes with the values that we have at the Academy, and it's imbued in each one of you know, service excellence, all of those pieces. But for the most part, fellow cadets and airmen and women want to help others. I mean, it's in service. It's in our DNA. Man that blew right past me. I had no idea, and I remember at one point I was entering sophomore year, and I was asked to be a glider instructor. I'd done the soaring and jumping program over the summer, and like, “Hey, you know you're not too bad at glider. You want to be an instructor?” At the time, that was pretty big deal, yeah, glider instructors. Like, “Yeah, no, I'm not going to do that, you know? I've got to study. Like, look at my GPA.” That didn't really matter. “And I'm going to go up to Boulder and go chase women.” Like, I was going to meet women, right? So, like, but I didn't understand that, that that mechanism, that mentoring mechanism, isn't always bestowed upon a moment or a coupling of individuals. There are just good people out there that see goodness in others that want to help them through that. I had no clue, but that was a turning point for me.   Naviere Walkewicz 15:56 Because you said no.   Mike Ott 15:58 I said no, right? And it was like what, you know, a couple months later, I remember talking with somebody like, “Yep, swing and a miss,” right? But after that, it changed how I was going to apply this self-assuredness, not bravado, but willingness to try new things, but with a willingness to be less measured. Why not? Trust the system. Trust the environment that you're in, the environment that we're in, you were in, I was in, that we're representing right now, it is a trusted environment. I didn't know that. And there were a lot of environments when I was being raised, they weren't trusted environments. And so you have a sort of mental callous mindset in many ways, and that that vigilance, that sense of sentinel is a good protection piece, but it prevents, it prevents... It doesn't allow for the membrane to be permeated, right? And so that trust piece is a big deal. I broke through after that, and I figured it out, and it helped me, and it helped me connect a sense of self-assuredness to perhaps being less measured, more willing to take ambiguity. You can be self-assured but not have complete belief in yourself, OK? And it helped me believe in myself more. I still wish I'd have been glider instructor. What a knucklehead. My roommate wound up becoming one. Like, “You, son of a rat, you.”   Naviere Walkewicz 17:29 So tell me, when did the next opportunity come up where you said yes, and what did that look like in your journey? Mike Ott 17:36 I was a lieutenant. I was a lieutenant, and I was looking for a new role. I was stationed at Hanscom Field, and I was working at one program office, and I bumped — I was the athletic officer for the base with some other folks, and one of the colonels was running a different program, and he had gotten to know me and understand how I operated, what I did, and he said, “Hey, Ott, I want you to come over to my program.” And I didn't know what the program was, but I trusted him, and I did it blindly. I remember his name, Col. Holy Cross. And really good guy. And yeah, I got the tap on the shoulder. Didn't blink. Didn't blink. So that was just finishing up second lieutenant. Naviere Walkewicz 18:26 What a lesson. I mean, something that stuck with you as a cadet, and not that it manifested in regret, but you realized that you missed that opportunity to grow and experience and so when it came around again, what a different… So would you say that as you progress, then you know, because at this point you're a lieutenant, you know, you took on this new role, what did you learn about yourself? And then how did that translate to the decision to move from active duty to the Reserve and into… Mike Ott 18:56 You'll note what I didn't do when I left active duty was stay in the defense, acquisition, defense engineering space. I made a hard left turn…   Naviere Walkewicz 19:13 Intentionally.   Mike Ott 19:14 Intentionally. And went into financial services. And that is a hard left turn away from whether it's military DOD, military industrial complex, working for one of the primes, or something like that. And my mindset was, “If I'm not the guy in the military making the decision, setting strategy and policy…” Like I was an O-3. Like, what kind of policy am I setting? Right? But my point was, if I'm not going to, if I may, if I decided to not stay in the military, I wasn't going to do anything that was related to the military, right, like, “Let's go to green pastures. Set myself apart. Find ways to compete…” Not against other people. I don't think I need to beat the hell out of somebody. I just need to make myself better every day. And that's the competition that I just love, and I love it  it's greenfield unknown. And why not apply my skills in an area where they haven't been applied and I can learn? So as an active-duty person — to come back and answer your question — I had worked some great bosses, great bosses, and they would have career counseling discussions with me, and I was asked twice to go to SOS in-residence. I turned it down, you know, as I knew. And then the third time my boss came to me. He's like, “OK, what are you doing? Idiot. Like, what are you doing?” That was at Year 5. And I just said, “Hey, sir, I think I'm going to do something different.” Naviere Walkewicz 20:47 Didn't want to take the slot from somebody else.   Mike Ott 20:49 That's right. Right. And so then it was five months, six months later, where I put in my papers. I had to do a little more time because of the grad school thing, which is great. And his commander, this was a two-star that I knew as well, interviewed me and like, one final, like, “What are you doing?” He's like, “You could have gone so far in the Air Force.” And I looked at the general — he was a super-good dude. I said, “What makes you think I'm not going to do well outside of the Air Force?” And he smiled. He's like, “Go get it.” So we stayed in touch. Great guy. So it had nothing to do with lack of fulfillment or lack of satisfaction. It had more to do with newness, curiosity, a challenge in a different vein. Naviere Walkewicz 21:30 So let's walk into that vein. You entered into this green pasture. What was that experience like? Because you've just been in something so structured. And I mean, would you say it was just structured in a different way? Mike Ott 21:48 No, not structured. The industry… So, I separated, tried an engineering job for about eight months. Hated it. I was, I was development engineer at Ford Motor Company, great firm. Love the organization, bored stiff, right? Just not what I wanted to do, and that's where I just quit. Moved back to Chicago, where I'm from, and started networking and found a role with an investment bank, ABN AMRO, which is a large Dutch investment bank that had begun to establish itself in the United States. So their headquarters in Chicago and I talked fast enough where somebody took a bet on me and was brought into the investment banking arm where I was on the capital markets team and institutional equities. So think of capital markets, and think of taking companies public and distributing those shares to large institutions, pensions funds, mutual funds, family offices.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:48 So a lot of learning and excitement for you.   Mike Ott 22:51 Super fun. And so the industry is very structured. How capital is established, capital flows, very regulated. We've got the SEC, we've got the FDIC, a lot of complex regulations and compliance matters. That's very, very, very structured. But there was a free-wheelingness in the marketplace. And if you've seen Wolf of Wall Street and things like that, some of that stuff happened. Crazy! And I realized that with my attitude, sense of placing trust in people before I really knew them, figuring that, “OK, what's the downside? I get nipped in the fan once, once or twice. But if I can thrust trust on somebody and create a relationship where they're surprised that I've trusted them, it's probably going to build something reciprocal. So learn how to do that.” And as a young fellow on the desk, wound up being given more responsibility because I was able to apply some of the basic tenets of leadership that you learned and I learned at the Academy. And face it, many of the men and women that work on Wall Street or financial services simply haven't gone to the Academy. It's just, it's the nature of numbers — and don't have that experience. They have other experiences. They have great leadership experiences, but they don't have this. And you and I may take it for granted because we were just four years of just living through it. It oozed in every moment, every breath, every interaction, every dialog, it was there.But we didn't know it was being poured in, sprinkled across as being showered. We were being showered in it. But I learned how to apply that in the relationships that I built, knowing that the relationships that I built and the reputation that I built would be lasting and impactful and would be appropriate investments for the future endeavors, because there's always a future, right? So it wasn't… again, lot of compliance, lot of regulations, but just the personalities. You know, I did it for the challenge, right? I did it because I was curious. I did it because I wanted to see if I could succeed at it. There were other folks that did it simply because it was for the money. And many, some of them made it. They might have sold their soul to get there. Some didn't make it. Maybe it wasn't the right pursuit for them in the first place. And if I go back to mentoring, which we talked about a little bit, and I help young men and women, cadets or maybe even recent grads, my guidance to them is, don't chase the money, chase the environment, right? And chase the environment that allows you to find your flow and contribute to that environment. The money will come. But I saw it — I've seen it with grads. I've seen it with many of the folks that didn't make it in these roles in financial services, because I thought, “Hey, this is where the money is.” It might be. But you have to go back to the basis of all this. How are you complected? What are your values? Do they align with the environment that you're in? And can you flow in a way where your strengths are going to allow success to happen and not sell your soul? Naviere Walkewicz 26:26 Yeah, you said two things that really stood out to me in that —the first one was, you know, trusting, just starting from a place of trust and respect, because the opportunity to build a relationship faster, and also there's that potential for future something. And then the second thing is the environment and making sure it aligns with your values. Is that how you got to MOBE? Mike Ott 26:50 Yeah, I would say how I got to MOBE, that certainly was a factor. Good question.   Naviere Walkewicz 26:57 The environment, I feel, is very much aligned Mike Ott 27:00 Very much so and then… But there's an element of reputation and relationship that allowed me to get there. So now I'm lucky to be a part of this firm. We're 250 people. We will do $50 million of revenue. We're growing nicely. I've been in health care for four years. Now, we are we're more than just healthcare. I mean, it's deep data. We can get into some of that later, but I had this financial services background. I was drawn to MOBE, but I had established a set of relationships with people at different investment banks, with other families that had successfully built businesses and just had relationships. And I was asked to come on to the board because MOBE, at the time, great capabilities, but struggled with leadership during COVID. Lot of companies did. It's not an indictment as to the prior CEO, but he and the team struggled to get through COVID. So initially I was approached to come on to the board, and that was through the founders of the firm who had known me for 20 years and knew my reputation, because I'd done different things at the investment bank, I'd run businesses at US Bank, which is a large commercial bank within the country, and they needed someone that… They cared very little about health care experience, which is good for me, and it was more around a sense of leadership. They knew my values. They trusted me. So initially I was asked to come onto the board, and that evolved into, “No, let's just do a whole reset and bring you on as the CEO.” Well, let's go back to like, what makes me tick. I love ambiguity. I love a challenge. And this has been a bit of a turnaround in that great capabilities, but lost its way in COVID, because leadership lost its way. So there's a lot of resetting that needed to occur. Corpus of the firm, great technology, great capabilities, but business model adaptation, go to market mechanisms and, frankly, environment. Environment. But I was drawn to the environment because of the people that had founded the organization. The firm was incubated within a large pharmaceutical firm. This firm called Upsher-Smith, was a Minnesota firm, the largest private and generic pharmaceutical company in the country, and sold for an awful lot of money, had been built by this family, sold in 2017 and the assets that are MOBE, mostly data, claims, analysis capabilities stayed separate, and so they incubated that, had a little bit of a data sandbox, and then it matriculated to, “Hey, we've got a real business here.” But that family has a reputation, and the individuals that founded it, and then ultimately found MOBE have a reputation. So I was very comfortable with the ambiguity of maybe not knowing health care as much as the next guy or gal, but the environment I was going into was one where I knew this family and these investors lived to high ethical standards, and there's many stories as to how I know that, but I knew that, and that gave me a ton of comfort. And then it was, “We trust you make it happen. So I got lucky. Naviere Walkewicz 30:33 Well, you're, I think, just the way that you're wired and the fact that you come from a place of trust, obviously, you know, OK, I don't have the, you know, like the medical background, but there are a lot of experts here that I'm going to trust to bring that expertise to me. And I'm going to help create an environment that they can really thrive in. Mike Ott 30:47 I'm certain many of our fellow alum have been in this experience, had these experiences where a leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest gal or guy in the room. In fact, you should strive for that to be the case and have a sense of lack of hubris and proudly acknowledge what you don't know. But what I do know is how to set vision. What I do know is how to move people without authority. What I do know is how to resource. And that's what you do if you want to move a mission, whether it's in the military, small firm like us that's getting bigger, or, you know, a big organization. You can't know it all. Naviere Walkewicz 31:30 So something you just mentioned that I think a lot of our listeners would really like, would love a little bit to peel us back a little bit. You said, “I know how to set a vision. I know how to…” I think it was move…   Mike Ott 31:45 Move people without authority and prioritize.   Naviere Walkewicz 31:47 But can we talk a little bit about that? Because I think that is really a challenge that some of our you know younger leaders, or those early in their leadership roles struggle with. Maybe, can you talk a little bit about that? Mike Ott 32:01 For sure, I had some — again, I tried to do my best to apply all the moments I had at the Academy and the long list of just like, “What were you thinking?” But the kindness piece comes through and… Think as a civilian outside looking in. They look at the military. It's very, very, very structured, OK, but the best leaders the men and women for whom you and I have served underneath or supported, never once barked an order, OK? They expressed intent, right? And you and I and all the other men and women in uniform, if we were paying attention, right, sought to execute the mission and satisfaction of that intent and make our bosses' bosses' jobs easier. That's really simple. And many outsiders looking in, we get back to just leadership that are civilians. They think, “Oh my gosh, these men and women that are in the military, they just can't assimilate. They can't make it in the civilian world.” And they think, because we come from this very, very hierarchical organization, yes, it is very hierarchical — that's a command structure that's necessary for mission execution — but the human part, right? I think military men and women leaders are among the best leaders, because guess what? We're motivating men and women — maybe they get a pat on the back. You didn't get a ribbon, right? Nobody's getting a year-end bonus, nobody's getting a spot bonus, nobody's getting equity in the Air Force, and it's gonna go public, right? It's just not that. So the best men and women that I for whom I've worked with have been those that have been able to get me to buy in and move and step up, and want to demonstrate my skills in coordination with others, cross functionally in the organization to get stuff done. And I think if there's anything we can remind emerging graduates, you know, out of the Academy, is: Don't rely on rank ever. Don't rely on rank. I had a moment: I was a dorky second lieutenant engineer, and we were launching a new system. It was a joint system for Marines, Navy and Air Force, and I had to go from Boston to Langley quite often because it was a TAC-related system, Tactical Air Force-related system. And the I was the program manager, multi-million dollar program for an interesting radio concept. And we were putting it into F-15s, so in some ground-based situations. And there was this E-8, crusty E-8, smoked, Vietnam, all these things, and he was a comms dude, and one of the systems was glitching. It just wasn't working, right? And we were getting ready to take this thing over somewhere overseas. And he pulls alongside me, and it's rather insubordinate, but it was a test, right? He's looking at me, Academy guy, you know, second lieutenant. He was a master sergeant, and he's like, “Well, son, what are we going to do now?” In other words, like, “We're in a pickle. What are we going to do now?” But calling me son. Yeah, it's not appropriate, right? If I'd have been hierarchical and I'd relied on rank, I probably would have been justified to let him have it. Like, that's playing short ball, right? I just thought for a second, and I just put my arm around him. I said, “Gee, Dad, I was hoping you're gonna help me.” And mother rat, we figured it out, and after that, he was eating out of my hand. So it was a test, right? Don't be afraid to be tested but don't take the bait. Naviere Walkewicz 35:46 So many good just lessons in each of these examples. Can you share a time at MOBE when you've seen someone that has been on your team that has demonstrated that because of the environment you've created? Mike Ott 35:57 For sure. So I've been running the firm now for about three and a half years. Again, have adapted and enhanced our capabilities, changed the business model a bit, yet functioning in our approach to the marketplace remains the same. We help people get better, and we get paid based on the less spend they have in the system. Part of some of our principles at MOBE are pretty simple, like, eat, sleep, move, smile, all right. And then be thoughtful with your medication. We think that medicine is an aid, not a cure. Your body's self-healing and your mind controls your body.   Naviere Walkewicz 36:32 Eat, sleep, move, smile. Love that.   Mike Ott 36:35 So what's happening with MOBE, and what I've seen is the same is true with how I've altered our leadership team. I've got some amazing leaders — very, very, very accomplished. But there are some new leaders because others just didn't fit in. There wasn't the sense of communal trust that I expected. There was too much, know-it-all'ing going on, right? And I just won't have that. So the easiest way to diffuse that isn't about changing head count, but it's around exhibiting vulnerability in front of all these folks and saying, “Look, I don't know that, but my lead pharmacist here, my lead clinician here, helped me get through those things.” But I do have one leader right, who is our head of vice president of HR, a woman who grew up on a farm in southern Minnesota, who has come to myself and our president and shared that she feels liberated at MOBE because, though this firm is larger than one that she served as a director of HR, previously, she's never had to look — check her six, look right, look left and seek alignment to ensure she's harmonizing with people. Naviere Walkewicz 37:49 Can you imagine being in an environment like that? Mike Ott 38:51 It's terrible, it's toxic, and it's wrong. Leaders, within the organization, I think you're judged more by what you don't do and the actions that you don't take. You can establish trust, and you will fortify that trust when you share with the team as best you can, so long as it's nothing inappropriate, where you made a mistake, where we went wrong. What did we learn from that? Where are we going to pivot? How we're going to apply that learning to make it better, as opposed to finding blame, pointing the finger or not even acknowledging? That happens all the time, and that toxicity erodes. And regretfully, my VP of HR in prior roles experienced that, and I don't have time. Good teams shouldn't have time to rehearse the basic values of the firm. We don't have time the speed of business is like this [snaps]. So if I can build the team of men and women that trust one another, can stay in their lanes, but also recognize that they're responsible for helping run the business, and look over at the other lanes and help their fellow leaders make adjustments without the indictful comment or without sort of belittling or shaming. That's what good teams, do. You, and I did that in the Air Force, but it is not as common as you would think. Naviere Walkewicz 39:11 20 we've been talking about MOBE, and you know, the environment you're creating there, and just the way that you're working through innovation. Let's talk a little bit how you're involved with DIU, the Defense Innovation Unit. Mike Ott 39:21 Again, it's reputation in relationships. And it was probably 2010, I get a call from a fellow grad, '87 grad who was living in the Beltway, still in uniform. He was an O-5 I was an O-5. Just doing the Academy liaison work, helping good young men and women that wanted to go to the Academy get in. And that was super satisfying, thought that would be the end of my Reserve career and super fun. And this is right when the first Obama administration came in, and one of his edicts and his admin edicts was, we've got to find ways to embrace industry more, right? We can't rely on the primes, just the primes. So those were just some seeds, and along with a couple other grads, created what is now called Joint Reserve Directorate, which was spawned DIUX, which was DIU Experimental, is spawned from. So I was the owner for JRD, and DIUX as a reserve officer. And that's how we all made colonel is we were working for the chief technology officer of the Defense Department, the Hon. Zach Lemnios, wonderful fellow. Civilian, didn't have much military experience, but boy, the guy knew tech — semiconductors and areas like that. But this was the beginning of the United States recognizing that our R&D output, OK, in the aggregate, as a fund, as a percentage of GDP, whether it's coming out of the commercial marketplace or the military DoD complex, needs to be harnessed against the big fight that we have with China. We can see, you know, we've known about that for 30 years. So this is back 14 years ago. And the idea was, let's bring in men and women — there was a woman in our group too that started this area — and was like, “How do we create essential boundary span, boundary spanners, or dual-literacy people that are experiences in capital markets, finance, how capital is accumulated, innovation occurs, but then also how that applies into supporting the warfighter. So we were given a sandbox. We were given a blank slate.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:37 It's your happy place.   Mike Ott 41:38 Oh, super awesome. And began to build out relationships at Silicon Valley with commercial entities, and developed some concepts that are now being deployed with DIU and many other people came in and brought them all to life. But I was lucky enough after I retired from the Reserves as a colonel to be asked to come back as an adviser, because of that background and that experience, the genesis of the organization. So today I'm an unpaid SGE — special government employee — to help DIU look across a variety of different domains. And so I'm sure many of our listeners know it's key areas that we've got to harness the commercial marketplace. We know that if you go back into the '70s, ‘60s and ‘70s, and creation of the internet, GPS, precision munitions and all of that, the R&D dollars spent in the aggregate for the country, 95% came out of DOD is completely flip flopped today. Completely flipped. We happen to live in an open, free society. We hope to have capital markets and access a lot of that technology isn't burdened like it might be in China. And so that's the good and bad of this open society that we have. We've got to find ways. So we, the team does a lot of great work, and I just help them think about capital markets, money flows, threat finance. How you use financial markets to interdict, listen, see signals, but then also different technologies across cyberspace, autonomy, AI. Goodness gracious, I'm sure there's a few others. There's just so much. So I'm just an interloper that helps them think about that, and it's super fun that they think that I can be helpful. Naviere Walkewicz 43:29 Well, I think I was curious on how, because you love the ambiguity, and that's just something that fills your bucket — so while you're leading MOBE and you're creating something very stable, it sounds like DIU and being that kind of special employee, government employee, helps you to fill that need for your ambiguous side.   Mike Ott 43:48 You're right. You're right.   Naviere Walkewicz 43:49 Yeah, I thought that's really fascinating. Well, I think it's wonderful that you get to create that and you just said, the speed of business is this [snaps]. How do you find time in your life to balance what you also put your values around — your health — when you have such an important job and taking care of so many people? Mike Ott 44:06 I think we're all pretty disciplined at the Academy, right? I remain that way, and I'm very, very — I'm spring loaded to ‘no,' right? “Hey, do you want to go do this?” Yeah, I want to try do, I want to do a lot of things, but I'm spring loaded. So like, “Hey, you want to go out and stay, stay up late and have a drink?” “No,” right? “Do you want to do those things?” So I'm very, very regimented in that I get eight hours of sleep, right? And even somebody, even as a cadet, one of the nicknames my buddies gave me was Rip Van Ott, right? Because I'm like, “This is it.” I was a civil engineer. One of my roommates was an astro guy, and I think he pulled an all-nighter once a week.   Naviere Walkewicz 45:46 Oh, my goodness, yeah.   Mike Ott 45:50 Like, “Dude, what are you doing?” And it wasn't like he was straight As. I was clearly not straight As, but I'm like, “What are you doing? That's not helpful. Do the work ahead of time.” I think I maybe pulled three or four all-nighters my entire four years. Now, it's reflected in my GPA. I get that, but I finished the engineering degree. But sleep matters, right? And some things are just nonnegotiable, and that is, you know, exercise, sleep and be kind to yourself, right? Don't compare. If you're going to compare, compare yourself to yesterday, but don't look at somebody who is an F-15 pilot, and you're not. Like, I'm not. My roommate, my best man at my wedding, F-15 pilot, Test Pilot School, all these things, amazing, amazing, awesome, and super, really, really, happy and proud for him, but that's his mojo; that's his flow, right? If you're gonna do any comparison, compare yourself to the man or woman you were yesterday and “Am I better?”. Naviere Walkewicz 44:48 The power of “no” and having those nonnegotiables is really important. Mike Ott 45:53 Yeah, no, I'm not doing that. Naviere Walkewicz 45:56 I think sometimes we're wired for a “we can take on… we can take it on, we can take it on, we can take it on. We got this.” Mike Ott 46:03 For sure. Oh, my goodness. And I have that discussion with people on my team from time to time as well, and it's most often as it relates to an individual on the team that's struggling in his or her role, or whether it's by you know, if it's by omission and they're in the wrong role, that's one thing. If it's by commission, well, be a leader and execute and get that person out of there, right? That's wrong, but from time to time, it's by omission, and somebody is just not well placed. And I've seen managers, I can repatriate this person. I can get him or her there, and you have to stop for a second and tell that leader, “Yeah, I know you can. I'm certain that the only thing you were responsible for was to help that person fulfill the roles of the job that they're assigned. You could do it.” But guess what? You've got 90% of your team that needs care, nurturing and feeding. They're delivering in their function, neglect, there destroys careers, and it's going to destroy the business. So don't, don't get caught up in that. Yeah. Pack it on. Pack it on. Pack it on. You're right. When someone's in the crosshairs, I want to be in the crosshairs with you, Naviere, and Ted, and all the people that you and I affiliate with, but on the day-to-day, sustained basis, right to live, you know, to execute and be fulfilled, both in the mission, the work and stay fit, to fight and do it again. You can't. You can't. And a lot of a little bit of no goes a long way. Naviere Walkewicz 47:40 That is really good to hear. I think that's something that a lot of leaders really don't share. And I think that's really wonderful that you did. I'd like to take a little time and pivot into another area that you're heavily involved, philanthropy side. You know, you've been with the Falcon Foundation. Where did you find that intent inside of you? I mean, you always said the Academy's been part of you, but you found your way back in that space in other ways. Let's talk about that. Mike Ott 48:05 Sure. Thank you. I don't know. I felt that service is a part of me, right? And it is for all of us, whether you stay in the military or not. Part of my financial services jobs have been in wealth management. I was lucky enough to run that business for US Bank in one of my capacities, and here I am now in health care, health care of service. That aligns with wanting things to be better across any other angle. And the philanthropic, philanthropic side of things — I probably couldn't say that word when I was a cadet, but then, you know, I got out and we did different volunteer efforts. We were at Hanscom Field raising money for different organizations, and stayed with it, and always found ways to have fun with it. But recognized I couldn't… It was inefficient if I was going to be philanthropic around something that I didn't have a personal interest in. And as a senior executive at US Bank, we were all… It was tacit to the role you had roles in local foundations or community efforts. And I remember sitting down with my boss, the CFO of the bank, and then the CEO, and they'd asked me to go on to a board, and it had to do with a museum that I had no interest in, right? And I had a good enough relationship with these, with these guys, to say, “Look, I'm a good dude. I'm going to be helpful in supporting the bank. And if this is a have to, all right, I'll do it, but you got the wrong guy. Like, you want me to represent the bank passionately, you know, philanthropically, let me do this. And they're like, “OK, great.” So we pivoted, and I did other things. And the philanthropic piece of things is it's doing good. It's of service for people, entities, organizations, communities or moments that can use it. And I it's just very, very satisfying to me. So my wife and I are pretty involved that way, whether it's locally, with different organizations, lot of military support. The Academy, we're very fond of. It just kind of became a staple. Naviere Walkewicz 50:35 Did you find yourself also gravitating toward making better your community where you grew up? Mike Ott 50:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my dear friends that grew up in the same neighborhood, he wound up going to the Naval Academy, and so we're we've been friends for 50 years. Seventh grade.   Naviere Walkewicz 50:53 Same counselor? Mike Ott50:54 Yeah, no. Different counselor, different high school. His parents had a little bit of money, and they, he wound up going to a Catholic school nearby. But great guy, and so he and I, he runs a business that serves the VA in Chicago, and I'm on the board, and we do an awful lot of work. And one of the schools we support is a school on the south side, largely African American students and helping them with different STEM projects. It's not going to hit above the fold of a newspaper, but I could give a rat, doesn't matter to me, seeing a difference, seeing these young men and women. One of them, one of these boys, it's eye watering, but he just found out that he was picked for, he's applying to the Naval Academy, and he just found out that he got a nomination.   Naviere Walkewicz 51:44 Oh my goodness, I just got chills.   Mike Ott 51:46 And so, yeah, yeah, right, right. But it's wonderful. And his parents had no idea anything like that even existed. So that's one that it's not terribly formal, but boy, it looks great when you see the smile on that kid and the impact on that individual, but then the impact it leaves on the community, because it's clear opportunity for people to aspire because they know this young man or this young woman, “I can do that too.” Naviere Walkewicz 52:22 Wow. So he got his nomination, and so he would start technically making class of 2030?   Mike Ott 52:27 That's right. Naviere Walkewicz 52:28 Oh, how exciting. OK Well, that's a wonderful…   Mike Ott 52:27 I hope, I hope, yeah, he's a great kid. Naviere Walkewicz 52:33 Oh, that is wonderful. So you talk about, you know that spirit of giving — how have you seen, I guess, in your journey, because it hasn't been linear. We talked about how you know progression is not linear. How have you grown throughout these different experiences? Because you kind of go into a very ambiguous area, and you bring yourself, and you grow in it and you make it better. But how have you grown? What does that look like for you? Mike Ott 53:02 After having done it several times, right, i.e. entering the fray of an ambiguous environment business situation, I developed a better system and understanding of what do I really need to do out of the gates? And I've grown that way and learn to not be too decisive too soon. Decisiveness is a great gift. It's really, really it's important. It lacks. It lacks because there are too many people, less so in the military, that want to be known for having made… don't want to be known for having made a bad decision, so they don't take that risk. Right, right, right. And so that creates just sort of the static friction, and you've just got to have faith and so, but I've learned how to balance just exactly when to be decisive. And the other thing that I know about me is I am drawn to ambiguity. I am drawn… Very, very curious. Love to learn, try new things, have a range of interests and not very good at any one thing, but that range helps me in critical thinking. So I've learned to, depending on the situation, right, listen, listen, and then go. It isn't a formula. It's a flow, but it's not a formula. And instinct matters when to be decisive. Nature of the people with whom you're working, nature of the mission, evolution, phase of the organization or the unit that you're in. Now is the time, right? So balancing fostering decisiveness is something that that's worth a separate discussion. Naviere Walkewicz 54:59 Right. Wow. So all of these things that you've experienced and the growth that you've had personally — do you think about is this? Is this important to you at all, the idea of, what is your legacy, or is that not? Mike Ott 55:13 We talked a little bit about this beforehand, and I thought I've got to come up with something pithy, right? And I really, I really don't.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:18 Yeah, you don't.   Mike Ott 55:19 I don't think of myself as that. I'm very proud of who I am and what I've done in the reputation that I have built. I don't need my name up in lights. I know the life that I'm living and the life that I hope to live for a lot longer. My legacy is just my family, my children, the mark that I've left in the organizations that I have been a part of.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:58 And the communities that you've touched, like that gentleman going and getting his nomination. I'm sure.   Mike Ott 56:04 Yeah, I don't… having been a senior leader, and even at MOBE, I'm interviewed by different newspapers and all that. Like I do it because I'm in this role, and it's important for MOBE, but I'm not that full of myself, where I got to be up in lights. So I just want to be known as a man that was trustworthy, fun, tried to meet people where they are really had flaws, and sought to overcome them with the few strengths that he had, and moved everything forward. Naviere Walkewicz 56:33 Those are the kind of leaders that people will run through fire for. That's amazing. I think that's a wonderful I mean that in itself, it's like a living legacy you do every day. How can I be better than I was yesterday? And that in itself, is a bit of your living and that's really cool. Well, one of the things we like to ask is, “What is something you're doing every day to be better as a leader?” And you've covered a lot, so I mean, you could probably go back to one of those things, but is there something that you could share with our listeners that you do personally every day, to be better? Mike Ott 57:05 Exercise and read every day, every day, and except Fridays. Fridays I take… that's like, I'll stretch or just kind of go for a walk. But every day I make it a moment, you know, 45 minutes to an hour, something and better for my head, good for my body, right? That's the process in the hierarchy of way I think about it. And then read. Gen. Mattis. And I supported Gen. Mattis as a lieutenant colonel before I wanted to and stuff at the Pentagon. And he I supported him as an innovation guy for JFCOM, where he was the commander. And even back then, he was always talking about reading is leading none of us as military leaders… And I can't hold the candle to the guy, but I learned an awful lot, and I love his mindset, and that none of us can live a life long enough to take In all the leadership lessons necessary to help us drive impact. So you better be reading about it all the time. And so I read probably an hour every night, every day.   Naviere Walkewicz 58:14 What are you reading right now?   Mike Ott 58:15 Oh, man, I left it on the plane! I was so bummed. Naviere Walkewicz 58:17 Oh, that's the worst. You're going to have to get another copy. Mike Ott 58:22 Before I came here, I ordered it from Barnes & Noble so to me at my house when I get home. Love history and reading a book by this wonderful British author named Anne Reid. And it's, I forget the title exactly, but it's how the allies at the end of World War I sought to influence Russia and overcome the Bolsheviks. They were called the interventionalists, and it was an alliance of 15 different countries, including the U.S., Britain, France, U.K., Japan, Australia, India, trying to thwart, you know, the Bolshevik Revolution — trying to thwart its being cemented. Fascinating, fascinating. So that's what I was reading until I left it on the plane today. Naviere Walkewicz 59:07 How do you choose what to read? Mike Ott 59:10 Listen, write, love history. Love to read Air Force stuff too. Just talk to friends, right? You know, they've learned how to read like me. So we get to talk and have fun with that. Naviere Walkewicz 59:22 That's great. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, the last question I'd like to ask you, before I want to make sure you have an opportunity to cover anything we didn't, is what is something you would share with others that they can do to become better leaders? Maybe they start doing it now, so in the future, they're even stronger as a leader. Mike Ott 59:42 Two things I would say, and try to have these exist in the same breath in the same moment, is have the courage to make it try and make it better every day, all right, and be kind to yourself, be forgiving. Naviere Walkewicz 59:59 That's really powerful. Can you share an example? And I know I that's we could just leave it there, but being courageous and then being kind to yourself, they're almost on two opposite sides. Have you had, can you share an example where I guess you've done that right? You had to be you were courageous and making something better, and maybe it didn't go that way, so you have to be kind to yourself. Mike Ott 1:00:23 Yeah, happy to and I think any cadet will hear this story and go like, “Huh, wow, that's interesting.” And it also plays with the arc of progress isn't linear. I graduated in '85 went to flight school, got halfway through flight school, and there was a RIF, reduction in force. And our class, our flight class, I was flying jets, I was soloing. I was academically — super easy, flying average, right? You know, I like to joke that I've got the fine motor skills of a ham sandwich, right? You know, but, but I didn't finish flight school. And you think about this, here it is. I started in 1981 there were still vestiges of Vietnam. Everyone's going to be a fighter pilot. Kill, kill, kill. Blood makes the grass grow. All of that was there. And I remember when this happened, it was very frustrating for me. It was mostly the major root of frustration wasn't that I wasn't finishing flight school. It was the nature by which the determination that I wasn't finishing was made. And it was, it was a financial decision. We had too many guys and gals, and they were just finding, you know, average folks and then kicking them out. So our class graduated a lower percent than, I think, in that era, it was late '85, '86, maybe '87, but you can look at outflows, and it was interesting, they were making budget cuts. So there was a shaming part there, having gone to the Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:02:02 And knowing since 9 years old. Mike Ott 1:20:04 Right, right, right, and I knew I wanted to go the Academy. I'd like to fly, let's check it out and see if it's for me. I would much rather have been not for me, had I made the decision I don't want to do this or that I was just unsafe and didn't want to do it. The way it turned out is, and this is where I learned a little bit about politics as well. In my class, again, I was very average. Like, nobody's ever going to say, like, yeah, I was going to go fly the Space Shuttle. Like, no way, right? Very, very average, but doing just fine. And a lot of guys and gals wanted to go be navigators, and that's great. I looked in the regs, and I learned this as a cadet, and it's helped me in business, too. If there's a rule, there's a waiver. Like, let me understand the regs, and I asked to go to a board. Instead of just submitting a letter to appeal, I asked to go to a board. And so I went to a board of an O-5 five, couple of threes O-4 four, and ultimately shared the essence of why I shouldn't be terminated in the program. And son of a gun, they agreed, and I still have the letter. The letter says, “Recommend Lt. Ott for reinstatement.” Nobody in my class has that letter, nobody makes the appeal. And I'm like, I'm going downstream. I'm going downstream. And that's the Chicago in me, and that's the piece about… but also move forward, but forgive yourself, and I'll get to that. And so I, I was thrilled, My goodness, and the argument I had is, like, look, you're just not keeping me current. You put me in the sim, and then you're waiting too long to put me in the jet. The regs don't allow for that. And like, you're right. So I'm assigned to go back to the jet. My pals are thrilled. I'm going to stay in the same class. I don't have to wash back. And then I get a call from the DO's office — director of operations — and it was from some civilian person so the DO overrode the board's decision. Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:04:12 You were so high, you did all of your work. And then… Mike Ott 1:04:15 Yeah, and then heartbreaking and frustrating, and I guess the word is indignant: anger aroused through frustration. In that I figured it out. I knew exactly what's happening. I made the appeal and I won. And it wasn't I was expecting to be assigned to fly a fighter. It was like, “Just let me, let me express the merits of my capabilities. It's how the system is designed.” The son of a gun, I jumped in my car and I ran to base and I waited and reported in. He didn't really know who I was. That's because he didn't make a decision. It was just it was that decision, and that's how life comes at you. That's just how it is. It isn't linear. So how do you take that and then say, “Well, I'm going to be kind to myself and make something out of it.” And he went through, you know, a dissertation as to why, and I asked him if I could share my views, and it's pretty candid, and I just said, If my dad were something other than the Chicago policeman, and maybe if he was a senator or general officer, I wouldn't be sitting here. That lit him up, right? That lit him up. But I had to state my views. So I knew I was out of the program. Very, very frustrating. Could have had the mayor of Chicago call. Didn't do that, right? Like, OK, I understand where this is it. That was very frustrating and somewhat shaming. But where the forgiveness comes in and be kind to yourself, is that I ran into ground. I ran into ground and drove an outcome where I still… It's a moment of integrity. I drove an outcome like, there you go. But then what do you do? Forgive yourself, right? Because you didn't do anything wrong, OK? And you pivot. And I turned that into a moment where I started cold calling instructors at the Academy. Because, hey, now I owe the Air Force five years, Air Force is looking for, you know, things that I don't want to do. And thank goodness I had an engineering degree, and I cold called a guy at a base in Hanscom. And this is another tap on the shoulder.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:24 That's how you got to Hanscom. Gotcha.   Mike Ott 1:06:27 There was a friend who was Class of '83, a woman who was in my squadron, who was there. Great egg. And she's like, “Hey, I was at the O Club.” Called her. I said, “Hey, help me out. I got this engineering degree. I want to go to one of these bases. Called Lt. Col. Davis, right? I met him at the O Club. I called a guy, and he's like, “Yeah, let's do this.”   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:44 Wow, I love that..   Mike Ott 1:06:46 It was fantastic So it's a long winded way, but progress isn't linear. And progressing through that and not being a victim, right, recognizing the conditions and the environment that I could control and those that I can't. Anything that I could control, I took advantage of and I sought to influence as best possible. Ran into ground and I feel great about it, and it turns out to be a testament of one of my best successes. Naviere Walkewicz 1:07:17 Wow. Thank you for sharing

When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President, from Nixon to Trump by Elie Honig https://www.amazon.com/When-You-Come-King-President/dp/0063447363 "[A] deeply researched, keenly analytical, and frequently provocative chronicle of this singular judicial entity. . . . A senior legal analyst for CNN and former assistant U.S. attorney, Honig is well-suited to the task of providing a historical overview of the special counsel's function with the ever-evolving context of politics, partisanship and political skepticism." —Booklist (STARRED review) "A fascinating, fast-paced insider's account....[a] riveting, deeply reported book.” —Anderson Cooper “Every page hums with gripping anecdotes and breaking news journalism." —Douglas Brinkley Imagine you've been put in charge of investigating your own boss—who also happens to be the most powerful person on the planet. You might unearth information that will be politically, professionally, and personally devastating to your subject, and you alone hold the power to indict and potentially imprison him. At the same time, the boss can fire you and end the case—and might even turn the tables and launch an inquiry aimed at you. As the lone-wolf assassin Omar put it in The Wire: “You come at the king, you best not miss.” That's the crucible for any Special Counsel. For decades, the Department of Justice has appointed outside prosecutors to handle our highest-stakes cases. But do these independent investigations lead to just results? In When You Come at the King, CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig delivers a fast-paced, insider's account of the most important Justice Department investigations of the past fifty years, based on dozens of on-record interviews with firsthand participants. A Watergate prosecutor reveals she hid copies of key documents at home to guard against potential destruction of evidence by the president's allies. A member of the Iran–Contra prosecution team explains why they made a shocking election-eve revelation. A defense lawyer for Donald Trump details his private meeting with Jack Smith just days before Trump was indicted. From Ken Starr's investigation of Bill Clinton to modern cases involving Patrick Fitzgerald, Robert Mueller, Jack Smith, and more, Honig charts how the Special Counsel system developed and evolved over time. We know the maxim that a nation can be measured by how it treats its weakest members. This book explores an inverse corollary: A nation reveals much about itself by how it holds accountable its most powerful leaders when they've done wrong. Now, with the future of Special Counsels in doubt, When You Come at the King addresses the most important question of all: Can the system evolve to better serve the call for justice?About the author Elie Honig is CNN's Senior Legal Analyst. He previously worked for 14 years as a federal and state prosecutor. Honig provides on-air commentary and analysis for CNN on news relating to the U. S. Department of Justice, major criminal trials, the Supreme Court, Congressional and grand jury investigations, national security, policing, and other legal issues. In 2022, Honig was nominated for an Emmy Award by the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences in the category "Outstanding News Analysis: Editorial & Opinion." Honig is the national bestselling author of two prior books published by HarperCollins: "Hatchet Man: How Bill Barr Broke the Prosecutor's Code and Corrupted the Justice Department" (2021) and "Untouchable: How Powerful People Get Away With It" (2023). His third book, "When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President, from Nixon to Trump," publishes in September 2025. Honig writes a weekly column on legal news for New York magazine and CAFE. He hosts the popular true-crime podcast, "Up Against the Mob," and a weekly legal podcast, "The Counsel," both productions of Vox Media. Honig graduated from Rutgers College (where he ...

The Mostly Superheroes podcast crew teams up with Alamo Drafthouse's Mark Bluestein and magician Magic Amanda for a preview of Now You See Me: Now You Don't — blending movie talk, illusions, and community fun. Join this crew live in-person at a Pre-Movie VIP Experience Friday November 14th at Alamo Drafthouse St. Louis Featuring Magic Amanda! 6-8pm for magic, themed cocktails, and VIP experience and then the movie at 8pm! Your $50 tickets gets you everything mentioned PLUS entry to Museum of Illusions in St. Louis (a $30 value!) on a day of your choosing. AND Mostly Superheroes will be there! Learn more and get tickets at www.drafthouse.com.  Timestamped Segments 00:00 Intro – Mostly Superheroes crew celebrates 400+ episodes   00:04:20 Alamo x Magic Amanda team-up announced   00:05:06 VIP event details and Museum of Illusions tie-in   00:07:30 Amanda explains her magic style and audience approach   00:08:33 How Alamo discovered Amanda through the podcast   00:10:00 Now You See Me franchise rewatch and fan discussion   00:14:58 Behind-the-scenes magician facts from the films   00:18:00 Movie soundtracks, high energy, and the Four Horsemen   00:25:52 Ad break – Randi Naughton, Steve's Hot Dogs, and Team Jake   00:36:20 80s nostalgia sidebar: Cheers and pop culture riffs   00:38:10 What's new at Alamo Drafthouse STL   00:40:10 November film lineup and event programming   00:41:36 The Godfather talk and Italian movie nostalgia   00:43:12 Mob movie realism and Sopranos comparisons   00:46:11 Nickname chaos: Magic Mark, Real Amanda, and LJ   00:50:02 Amanda's live math magic trick   00:52:45 The big reveal – the magic number is today's date   00:53:30 Reactions and reflections on the trick   00:54:15 Event recap and hype for Alamo's Now You See Me premiere   00:55:05 Closing thanks and tease for post-event episode   Sponsors: https://www.randinaughton.com/moretosaypodcast www.teamjakey.org www.steveshotdogsstl.com  https://www.4handsbrewery.com/  Subscribe and Support our Independent Podcast at www.mostlysuperheroes.com.  ©2025 Carrogan Studios

If you're a high-income earner staring at Q4 realizing:(a) you've got a multiple six-figure tax bill about to punch you in the face, and(b) you don't have a plan…Here's the rundown:- Reduce taxes on W2 income- If most of your money still shows up as W2 income, you're getting hit the hardest — and you know it.We go through two levers that can actually touch active income THIS year:- STR status (short-term rental with material participation)- The MOB (medical office building / clinical real estate) structure- These aren't “maybe someday” strategies. They're working right now and you still have a few weeks to take action.If this interests you, then enjoy the podcast episode!So enjoy, and please consider subscribing and liking the episode! This helps me support more people -- just like you -- to accelerate to financial freedom and move toward the life they desire.

www.TheMasonAndFriendsShow.com https://thejuunit.bandcamp.com/releases https://www.youtube.com/@SuperStationWJDL-TV5 A Ridiculous Fever Dream of Pro Wrestling Presented by J Dub https://www.glass-flo.com Great Pipes for Sure Flying, Entertainment on the Plane, Fear and Loathing, Pee Wee, Good Guy, Playhouse, Carnivale, Big Mike Reviews, Dirty Folks, Crazy TV Show,. Drawn Out, Dirty Clothes,. Stanking, well Written, Boondocks, Like That, Running Man, Strange Days, Crazy Carnivale, Rains Came, crazy Sweetness, Carnivale, Random Miners, no light, Mike Fucked Up, "Mason got me on some shit" Family of Hoes, Beavis and Butthead, Basket Ball Gambling, Mob, Rivalries Made the NBA, LeBron Messing it up, Chuck Daly, Dream Team Coach, Getting Tired, Pac in Star Wars, Aliyah in Matrix, oh we wish, Will Smith? Playing Gay, Lying Ass Will Smith, the music of this episode@ https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6f4MfiB8X1m4cSTKOLJcBe?si=5edf90f59d204045 support the show@ www.patreon.com/MperfectEntertainment

  Kennedy's and King website www.kennedysandking.com Paul Bleau The Pepe Letters Sullivan Cromwell involvement in Operation Gladio Sean Stone new RFK documentary Watch Here Review of Jim Douglas new book "Martyrs to the Unspeakable" - Read Here The CIA and Permindex Jim exposes the whole Mob smear against Jim Garrison as unfounded Jim and Bill Davy traveled to New Orleans to question officials on the Marcello case Jim theorizes what the Mob role in the Kenendy case actually was Jim talks about his two part article Clay Shaw in Italy: Amid Permindex and Gladio Jim places Permindex in a wider perspective as part of the Gladio Operation He also used work by Michele Metta to show Permindex was related to Propaganda Due Both groups met in the same offices in the Spanish Steps area of Rome Licio Gelli was an important part of P2 and admitted they met there Metta found evidence that Perm  

What do the Philly Mafia and an interstellar comet have in common? Aside from being scary, we talked to experts about both on today's show! Plus, a special visit from a local bakery to try an Italian treat. (00:00:00) News & Sports(00:15:54) Entertainment News(00:48:16) Mispronounced Words by State(01:14:19) Fox Good Day, Bizarre File(01:28:40) Dave Schratwieser & George Anastasia - Mob Wars: Philadelphia vs. the Mob(02:01:32) Derek Pitts, Franklin Institute Chief Astronomer (02:42:15) Bizarre File, Termini's Bakery Stops By(03:01:10) Hollywood Trash and Music News(03:10:17) Wrap UpSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Watch Lauren and Prof H https://www.youtube.com/live/m7bg3ela... Watch all of our Hamamoto videos here:    • Professor Hamamoto  Hamamoto on YouTube:    / @professorhamamoto  Prof. Darrell Hamamoto, who is an American writer, academic, and specialist in U.S. media and ethnic studies. Professors Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/share/hZajgC... Lauren on YT:    / @laurentheinsider  Lauren on Insta:   / laurenlunnfarrow  Lauren on X https://x.com/laurenKLfarrow Follow P Diddys latest:    • P Diddy  #jayz #beyonce #hollywood #countrymusic #nashville #pdiddy #puffdaddy #truecrime #news #youtubenews #podcast #livestream #youtube #thepope #vatican #church  Here are Hamamoto's recommended books: Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation  ——- The Psychological Covert War on Hip-Hop ——- The Covert War Against Rock: What You Don't Know About The Deaths of; (Jim Morrison, Tupac Shakur, Michael Hutchence, Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Phil Ochs, Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, John Lennon & The Notorious B.I.G) ——- Hit Men: Power Brokers and Fast Money Inside the Music Business ——- Me, the Mob, and the Music: One Helluva Ride Tommy James and the Shondells ——- Godfather of the Music Business: Morris Levy (American Made Music Series) ——- LAbyrinth: A Detective Investigates the Murders of Tupac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G., the Implication of Death Row Records, Suge Knight, and the Origins of the Los Angeles ——- The FBI war on Tupac Shakur: State repression of Black Leaders from the Civil Rights Error to the 1990s (real world) ——- The FBI war on Tupac Shakur and Black Leaders: US Intelligence's: Murderous Targeting of Tupac, MLK, Malcol, Panthers, Hendrix, Marley rappers and Linked Ethic Leftists ——- Have Gun Will Travel: The Spectacular Rise and Violent Fall of Death Row Records ——- The Big Payback: The History of the Business of Hip-Hop ——- Ruthless: A Memoir ——- Hip-Hop Decoded ——- Q: The Autobiography of Quincy Jones ——- How to Wreck a Nice Beach: The Vocoder from WW II to Hip-Hop, The Machine Speaks ——- Dancing with the Devil: How Puff burned the bad boys of Hip-Hop ——- Hiding in Hip-Hop: On the Down Low in the Entertainment industry—from Music to Hollywood

We kick things off by celebrating the Seahawks position at the top of the NFC West after their bye week and 49ers loss to a Texans team Seattle just faced. How have the division standings shifted, what does it means for the playoff race, and are the Rams a threat or not? This week we're diving into the reasons why the Seahawks got to this point. Is this Seahawks offense sustainable with Jaxon Smith-Njigba's getting a majority of the targets? Or maybe there are areas of the game where he needs to be targeted more! What are the biggest problems on offense? We take a look at third down conversion rates, the running game's inconsistencies, and how the team can improve in late-game situations. On the defensive side, we highlight the unit's dominance, impressive stats against the run, and the collective effort that keeps the Seahawks competitive. Plus, has the defense come up with their own nickname? What exactly are these "MOB ties" that Coach Mike Macdonald is speaking about? Join our Sea Hawkers Podcast Pickem League - free prizes for weekly winners. Support the show Get in the Flock! Visit GetInTheFlock.com Or visit our website for other ways to support the show Subscribe via: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | YouTube | TuneIn | RSS Follow us on: Facebook | Twitter Listen on our free app for Android, iOS, Kindle or Windows Phone/PC Call or text: 253-235-9041 Find Sea Hawkers clubs around the world at SeaHawkers.org Music from the show by The 12 Train, download each track at ReverbNation

Want more MTM Vegas? Check out our Patreon for access to our exclusive weekly aftershow! patreon.com/mtmvegas Want to work with us? Reach out! inquiries at mtmvegas dot com Episode Description This week sports and gambling were prevalent in the news as the NHL was the first major sports league to partner with prediction markets Kalshi and Polymarket. Also this week the FBI arrested a number of people regarding fixing games, individual prop bets and even mob run poker games. Is sports gambling too intertwined in our culture in 2025 and how should we deal with shadow gaming like prediction markets and sweepstakes casinos. In other news a closed Vegas casino finally got its marching orders as it is set for demolition. We also discuss: $8 hand sanitizer, new $10 dining specials, an incredible Vegas sunset, robe gambling at 8am, GVR's AI granny, Derek Stevens' big buy, whether Vegas has original concepts, Glowfest & why Oyo is cutting their deposit policy. Episode Guide 0:00 Gambling in your robe at 8am 0:47 Incredible Vegas sunset 1:32 Oyo cuts their deposit policy 3:08 Rio's $8 hand sanitizer? 4:27 Rio's $10 member food specials - Great deals 6:09 No original concepts in Vegas? 9:05 Eastside Cannery will officially be demolished 10:53 Glowfest lantern festival coming soon 12:32 GVR brings back the AI granny 14:05 Derek Stevens buy Golden Gate's land 15:28 NHL officially partners with prediction markets 16:33 Are prediction markets unsafe for consumers? 18:36 How do you keep sports safe from gambling influence? 20:28 Are individual prop bets a problem going forward? 23:40 Mob poker games & the future of cheating tech? Each week tens of thousands of people tune into our MtM Vegas news shows at http://www.YouTube.com/milestomemories. We do two news shows weekly on YouTube with this being the audio version. Never miss out on the latest happenings in and around Las Vegas! Enjoying the podcast? Please consider leaving us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform! You can also connect with us anytime at podcast@milestomemories.com. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify or by searching "MtM Vegas" or "Miles to Memories" in your favorite podcast app. Don't forget to check out our travel/miles/points podcast as well!

Send us a textIn this gripping episode, former undercover officer Giovanni Rocco takes listeners deep inside one of the most dangerous assignments in modern law enforcement — infiltrating the MOB. For years, Rocco lived a double life, gaining the trust of some of the most ruthless figures in organized crime while secretly working to bring them down.With raw honesty and unfiltered emotion, Giovanni reveals the mental and emotional toll of living undercover, the split-second decisions that could have cost him his life, and the price he and his family paid for justice. His story is not just about deception and danger — it's about courage, loyalty, and the relentless pursuit of truth.This is more than a story about the mob — it's the story of a man who walked the line between good and evil… and lived to tell about it.Support the showemail us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org

Episode 1822 - brought to you by our incredible sponsors: True Classic- TrueClassic.com/HARDFACTOR to try out the best men's tees on earth for yourself! RexMD- get up to 95% off ED treatment with Rex MD, visit rexmd.com/HardFactor Hydrow- Go to Hydrow.com and use code HARDFACTOR to save up to $450 off your Hydrow Pro Rower! DaftKings- Download the DraftKings Casino app, sign up with code HARDFACTOR, and spin your favorite slots! The Crown is Yours - Gambling problem? Call one eight hundred GAMBLER Timestamps: (00:00:00) - Story Teasers (00:03:45) - Important dates 1821 & 1822, Spain loses bigtime (00:05:10) - FBI announces huge gambling ring in the NBA with ties to the MOB (00:24:05) - Michigan man falls into nuclear reactor and drinks the water! (00:30:50) - AWS outage caused rich people to roast or freeze in their high-priced cloud-connected sleep system (00:40:10) - SCIENCE CORNER: Iceland now has mosquitoes & breathing through your butt is the future! Thank you for listening! Go to patreon.com/hardfactor to join our community, get access to bonus pods, discord chat and much more - bus Most Importantly: HAGFD!! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

0:13:  Not even 48 hours into the season, the NBA is dealing with a gamlbing-poker-mob-FBI nightmare:3:16: The “beautiful irony” of how entangled sports and gambling have become5:38: Setting the stage: The Terry Rozier case and the Chauncy Billips case are separate issues20:23: The “real fun” hasn't even begun — just wait until players start turning on each other31:30: Sports gambling: An emerging public health crisis39:13: Rant: “Adam Silver should be on the f—king war path”42:52: Can the 49ers get an interception already?!49:01: Today in history: Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Joey Diaz welcomes Renee Graziano, star of Mob Wives, to The Church of What's Happening Now. Joey talks about why he will never move to Texas and bribing airport employees. Renee tells an unbelievable story of betrayal, how being sober has changed her life, what it was like growing up the daughter of a Mob captain and much more! SHOW NOTES Support the show and get your first month of BlueChew for free, just pay $5 for shipping. Press in code JOEY at https://www.bluechew.com Support the show & download the DraftKings Pick6 app & press in code JOEY. New customers get $50 in bonus picks with just a $5 entry on your first pick set.