The Follow-Up Question

This episode's content comes from a webinar I delivered earlier this year titled, "You Want Me To Talk To Them? How To Communicate With People You Disagree With."   In this presentation, I walk through what we get wrong about conflict communication and how conversations get stuck. I also cover a new way to approach uncomfortable conversations, my ASK then SEE method, which can help us lower the temperature of heated discussions.   Looking for a presenter or keynote speaker at your next event? Learn more about my speaking at https://michaelashford.com/speaking. 

I had the joy of joining Rick Barron on his “That's Life, I Swear” podcast for a conversation about… well... conversation. More specifically, how we can communicate better with each other when conflict arises. Even though I was the guest, Rick told a story about him and his neighbor that is the perfect example of what I mean when I ask that you set aside your certainty and what you think you know about others and instead follow your curiosity.

We've been taught that when faced with disagreement, once you get a chance to speak, go on the offensive and don't back down.   However, one conversation I had recently revealed a far better and more productive approach — one that emphasizes asking questions beyond the point of your own comfort.

Humans were not designed to know all that we know, and it's crushing our ability to communicate well with each other and affect positive change.

Speaking coach Neil Gordon joins the podcast to recount how school "educated me out of an interest in reading and communication," and his journey back to a love of both.   Neil specializes in persuasion and helping speakers create more compelling narratives in their stories. Out of that work, Neil says, a path to ward off pessimism and skepticism emerges.   Check out A Prayer for Owen Meany, the book Neil references in this conversation, at https://www.amazon.com/Prayer-Owen-Meany-John-Irving/dp/006220422X    To learn more about Neil's work, visit https://neilcanhelp.com/ 

I had the opportunity to join Steve Leskovec — a former guest on this podcast — on his radio show in Ohio to discuss effective communication.   As you'll hear, Steve and I spent most of our conversation focused on conflict communication and how we can show up better in situations where we disagree with others.

In this episode, I speak with Mischa Zvegintzov about his journey to sobriety at 17 years old and how getting in touch with his emotions and his curiosity fueled a new approach to relationships with others.   Check out Mischa's work at https://www.theinfluencearmy.com/. 

Clichés and jargon are hampering your ability to effectively and confidently communicate your views and ideas with others.   In this episode, I walk you through a few ways you can ditch throwaway sayings and phrases and replace them with more impactful language.   Don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter to grab your free worksheet on the Detail Sprinkle Method at https://michaelashford.com/newsletter. 

Rich Harwood, President and Founder of The Harwood Institute, joins me on this episode.   Over the past 35+ years, Rich has used his philosophy and practice of how community leaders can solve shared problems and deepen people's civic belief worldwide to tackle some of the most deeply divisive issues.   As Rich explains, we need a better way to communicate through change, where we get out of the cul-de-sac of toxicity and step into our shared narratives of being builders, creators, and producers.   Rich's philosophy is grounded in what he views as an important prerequisite for change: finding a way to see more than what you want to see or are willing to see.   Watch the PBS Newshour feature that showcased Rich's work in North Carolina: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-a-north-carolina-community-is-confronting-divisions-talking-through-its-differences   Learn more about the Harwood Institute at https://theharwoodinstitute.org/ 

This episode exposes a cunning and sometimes dangerous communication tactic we employ when we face disagreement or opposition.   The “stick to sports” clapback that has pervaded our discourse on deeply challenging and controversial topics is an attempt to limit another human being, relying on strict and uncompromising assumptions and presumptions about who they are and the value they bring to a particular issue.   To communicate well with others beyond the ways you were taught in school, you must know yourself and your motivations far better than you were led to believe.   If you're interested in working with me as a speaking coach, go to https://michaelashford.com/speaking-coaching. If you're interested in bringing me in to facilitate a communications workshop for your company, check out https://michaelashford.com/workshops. 

Aden Nepom helps people build better habits around communication and collaboration to experience more joy in their work through her work with her company, Art of Change.   The feeling of joy as a conversational outcome is an interesting one, and Aden defines that joy as wholeness, excitement, and a sense of goodness in oneself.   As Aden describes, change requires experiencing it, and grief is a natural part of letting go of past expectations. Assumptions, fear, and joy often intersect in communication, and assuming positive intent and effective communication can drive positive change in the workplace.   Aden encourages self-awareness, asking for what you need and want, and avoiding polarizing communication, as relational conversations and collaboration are key to fostering joy and satisfaction in work and in our personal relationships.   Check out Aden's work at https://www.artofchange.com/ and connect with her on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/adennepom/. 

If you want to bring about real, lasting, sustainable change in others, your efforts will be greatly helped if you become a more curious person.   As I explain in this episode, curiosity about others leads to greater understanding and less reliance on forcing others to change.   To give yourself a boost of curiosity, there are two questions you can begin asking yourself to set up more positive conversational outcomes.

Tim Wenzel is back on the show to discuss his book, "The Kindness Games," which he co-authored with Lee Oughton.   Tim was my guest in episode 104, where he shared how the original idea of The Kindness Games came about. Now that the book is out, Tim shares what went into writing it, the lessons learned, the stories highlighted, and his hope for the message.   Perhaps most importantly, Tim wants us to know that kindness has a power all unto its own, with the ability to break down systems of control.   Order "The Kindness Games" at https://www.amazon.com/Kindness-Games-Changed-Mindset-Community/dp/194578332X/ref=sr_1_2.    Connect with Tim's work at https://thekindnessgames.com/.     

Is an unawareness of sunk costs sabotaging your communication efforts?   We often hold on to decisions, beliefs, and strategies simply because we've already poured time, money, or energy into them, even when we know they are no longer serving us well or are no longer aligned with who we are.   Understanding the role that sunk costs play in our decision-making — and how to work with them, not against them — is critical to clearer, more effective communication.    Whether in your personal life or professional interactions, this episode will give you fresh insights on how to cut through the noise and make more rational, impactful decisions, including three questions you should ask yourself.

Our society spends an awful lot of time and energy trying to categorize and label people.   From your political affiliation to your religion to your generation to your level of schooling, each "box" comes with it expectations of who and what you are, and as a result, a prediction of how successful you'll be in your chosen pursuits.   My guest in this episode is Vikram Mansharamani, author of the book, "The Making of a Generalist." Vikram has spent his life shunning the traditional ways of success and instead carved out a path for himself that leans into uncertainty and discomfort.   In this conversation, Vikram and I discuss what he calls "the migrant mindset," and how it has guided his decision-making throughout his life.   Vikram also explains why understanding as many points of view as possible is so important to him — a belief solidified by a respect for the fact that "every perspective is biased, incomplete, and therefore limited."   Learn more about Vikram at https://mansharamani.com/ and connect with him on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikrammansharamani.

How can you make your disagreements more meaningful?   Too often, when conflict arises, there's an understanding that a disagreement is present, but rarely do we take the time to truly understand why the disagreement is there in the first place.   This happens everywhere — at work, within family dynamics, with friends and significant others, in the political and social sphere. If you look closely, so many of the arguments being had are surface-level battles about the fact that a disagreement is present and not about the actual point of contention in question.   In this episode, I explain how one simple phrase — "The story I'm telling myself is..." — can make all the difference when trying to overcome conflict and disagreement.   Listen to episode 81 with Mónica Guzmán at https://michaelashford.com/episodes/ep-81-monica-guzman-the-perspective-changing-power-of-asking-what-am-i-missing   Listen to episode 131 with Robin Reames at https://michaelashford.com/episodes/ep-131-robin-reames-the-lost-understanding-of-rhetoric-and-the-power-behind-words

This conversation is perhaps the most profound exploration I've ever done on the power of asking questions to understand the meaning behind words.   Robin Reames is an Associate Professor of English at the University of Illinois Chicago and the author of the book, "The Ancient Art of Thinking for Yourself: The Power of Rhetoric in Polarized Times."   As Robin points out in this conversation, over the past century, we've lost sight of rhetoric's power to provoke us to think more deeply about the areas in which we disagree.   Examining the power behind the words we choose to state our beliefs and opinions gives us a chance to communicate better and more clearly with each other. By getting to the roots of how and why we disagree, we can have helpful and constructive problem-solving dialogue.   You can learn more about Robin's work at https://engl.uic.edu/profiles/reames-robin/. 

Welcome to Rethinking Communication!   Over the past four years, I've uncovered some aspects of communication that have largely gone untaught in our traditional educational settings.   So, I'm pivoting this podcast to focus on how we can bridge these gaps in our collective communication skill set.   In this first episode under the new banner, I introduce you to six things school didn't teach you about communication that I'll strive to explore and understand better as this show progresses.   They are: How to acknowledge emotions rather than letting them take over How to ask curious questions How to navigate conflict How to build support and drive change How listening is as important as speaking How to challenge your assumptions   If you'd like to contact me, you can email me at michael@rethinkingcommunication.com or go to michaelashford.com. 

My guest in this episode is Patrick Williams, a public speaker, writer, artist, independent scholar, and educator. Patrick is the founder and CEO of Satori Innovation and the Creative Director of The Satori Institute, an arts, education, and research non-profit.   For more than four decades, Patrick has developed what he calls the Philosophy of Creativity, which is an approach to education and creative thinking to gain back what Patrick believes was "colonized" as children: creativity.   In this discussion, Patrick details the difference between specialized creativity and general creativity, and how it is approaching issues, problems, and challenges with a general creativity that unlocks new and exciting ways of connecting with ourselves and each other.   Check out Patrick's work at https://patrickwilliamsstaycreative.com/. 

This is an interview I did with David Bryan on his Curiosity Invited podcast. In this conversation, David and I get into the deeper reasons why I started this exploration of change, common ground, and curiosity.   To order a copy of my book, go to https://michaelashford.com/caniaskaquestion to get signed copy or order it on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/Can-Ask-Question-Following-communication/dp/1312245492/ref=sr_1_1. 

In episode 99 of this show, Manu Meel offered up my favorite definition of empathy when he said it was the act of "making someone feel like they belong in that space with you."   Then, in episode 110, I explored the topic of listening and how to do it better with several guests, and we uncovered that asking questions was critical to true, real listening.   My guest in this episode takes both of those ideas — empathy and listening — and puts them into practice in one of the coolest ways I've seen.   Orly Israel began setting up Listening Tables in early 2022 as a way to hone his own listening skills while giving complete strangers the opportunity to sit down and be fully heard.   What he has learned from the conversations he's had since his first Listening Table is a wealth of lessons about how we can communicate well with each other, guided by respect and by setting aside the need to respond.   Check out Orly's work at https://thelisteningtable.com/ and follow him on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/orlyslisteningtable/   Listen to episode 99 with Manu Meel at https://michaelashford.com/episodes/ep-99-manu-meel-battling-political-apathy-through-building-conversational-bridges   Listen to episode 110, The Misunderstanding of Active Listening, at https://michaelashford.com/episodes/ep-110-the-misunderstanding-of-active-listening

What do you think you might learn about communication if you held thousands of conversations with strangers over the course of a decade?   Well, you don't have to wonder. My guest in this episode can tell you.   Back in 2015, while working as a sales rep tasked with cold-calling people who didn't want to talk to him, Rob Lawless started a side project to see if he could have conversations with complete strangers.   Rob set a goal: to have an hour-long chat with 10,000 people about whatever topic was most important to them that day.   This episode features Rob's 6,140th conversation on his way to 10,000, and it's with me.   We discuss many things, but perhaps most importantly, we dive into the lessons Rob has learned about communication and nuance along the way.   Check out Rob's work at https://www.robs10kfriends.com/ and at https://www.roblawless.com/, and follow Rob's journey on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/robs10kfriends/.

If you were to track how many times per day someone tried to convince you to change in some way, chances are you'd fill up pages worth of tally marks.   We often get sucked into thinking that the way to change people's minds to get them to do what we want them to do is to present them with enough evidence, data, and proof that our way is the "right" way.   But deep down, you know that's not how it works, don't you?   If you're not sure, allow my guest, Michael McQueen, to lay it out for you.   Michael is the author of the book "Mindstuck: Mastering the Art of Changing Minds," and in this conversation, Michael outlines why so often, our approach to change fails to take into account two of the most important factors in human belief and behavior: identity and dignity.   Check out Michael's work at https://michaelmcqueen.net/ and connect with Michael on Linkedin at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmcqueen1/. 

This episode is taken from my recent appearance on Kwame Christian's "Negotiate Anything" podcast. In this discussion, Kwame and I take a deep dive into my book, "Can I Ask A Question?" and explore how the book came to be and the lessons about communication and change that I learned along the way.   To order a signed copy of my book, go to https://michaelashford.com/caniaskaquestion   To order Can I Ask A Question? from Amazon, go to https://www.amazon.com/Can-Ask-Question-Following-communication/dp/1312245492/ref=sr_1_5

My guest in this episode is Steve Leskovek, a retired nurse who has created a resource to teach teens and young adults valuable life skills that Steve realized were not being taught in schools.   The word resource might be underselling it a bit — Steve created an entire curriculum, complete with video tutorials and study guides for everything from financial literacy to basic home care to employment and workplace skills. Thus, he called it the Life Skills Curriculum.   As you'll hear, Steve still has the heart of a nurse and an overwhelming drive to reduce strife and suffering for others, which is how Life Skills Curriculum came to be. Steve's work is born out of the same place as our desire to keep loved ones safe.   Steve and I discuss in depth a few critical themes central to this show that also flow through much of his course material — communication and understanding how and why people change, and just how often progress in those areas starts from within.   Check out Steve's work at https://www.thelifeskillscurriculum.com/.    Connect with me on my website at https://michaelashford.com. 

If you're anything like me, you've noticed over the past decade or so the emergence — or at least the increased use of — the word neurodivergent.   And if you're anything like me, you heard the term and made some assumptions about what it meant, what and who it described, and why it started showing up in more places and in more conversations…perhaps without really understanding or knowing much of the backstory or origins.   My guest in this episode is Meghan Bonde, a neurodiversity specialist and a former educator, and even she acknowledges the recent increase in usage of the phrase neurodivergent, despite the fact that it's been around longer than perhaps you and certainly I realized.   But Meghan brings a perspective beyond just the usage of the word, as well as some terms and descriptions that might be new to you, as they were to me.   As you'll hear Meghan explain, neurodivergent individuals have a different way of perceiving the world, and she emphasizes the importance of understanding these differences from a strength-based perspective, rather than how she believes they've been treated for so long — as dividing labels.   Check out Supporting Emotional Needs of the Gifted at https://www.sengifted.org/ or Meghan's work at https://www.teamneurodivergent.com/.   Connect with Meghan at https://www.linkedin.com/in/meghan-bonde-connect/. 

One of the ways us humans feel the most vulnerable and least empowered is when others have authority and control over us.   Take away a person's sense of autonomy and I'll show you a person who is unsure of themselves, angry, and without peace.   When you voluntarily give away power and control over your thoughts and actions, psychologist Amy Morin says this chips away at your mental strength and your ability to be emotionally healthy.   As she wrote in her first book, “13 Things Mentally Strong People Don't Do,” “giving other people the power to control how you think, feel, and behave makes it impossible to be mentally strong.”   In this conversation, Amy and I discuss what happens when you reclaim control over your thoughts and feelings, how it allows you to separate your opinions from facts, and how her experiences with grief and loss led her to write her original list of 13 things mentally strong people don't do that turned into so much more than she could have anticipated.   Check out Amy's work at https://amymorinlcsw.com/   Subscribe to my newsletter, The Follow-Up, at https://michaelashford.com/newsletter 

The phrase "Everyone has an opinion about everything these days," is often thrown out like it's a bad thing.   But, you're a human being. Of course you have opinions.   The bigger issue, in my humble, ahem, opinion, is that you are exposed to more peoples' opinions and feedback and ideas than ever before.   You're bombarded seemingly from all directions constantly.   The feedback loop all too often feels like a feedback fire hose.    And just like a firehose, there's a missing element from all of this feedback: care for what or who is on the receiving end.   My guest in this episode is Jason Rosoff, the CEO and Co-Founder of an organization called Radical Candor, which he started with Kim Scott, who wrote the book, Radical Candor.   Jason and I discuss what Radical Candor is, but at its core, it's about delivering important feedback while demonstrating care, especially when you don't know the other person.   Jason describes some very real fears we all have — our fear of being known and our fear of having the things we care about dissected by others — and he outlines just how important delivering feedback with care can be to helping others not immediately get consumed by their emotions and feelings.   Learn more about Jason's work at https://www.radicalcandor.com/ and connect with Jason on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-r-rosoff/   Learn more about my work at https://michaelashford.com  

What in the world do witchcraft panics and witch trials have to do with communication?   I assure you, after hearing this episode, there will be little doubt of the linkage.   My guest is Steije Hofhuis, a Dutch university lecturer and historian and an expert on the early modern witchcraft panics that swept across Europe in the 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries, not unlike those that occurred in Salem, Massachusetts, in the late 1600s here in the United States.   As Steije explains, the ways in which witchcraft panics spread very much mimicked how a virus might sweep through a population — a notion with which we are, unfortunately, all too familiar these days.   And, as we've also seen, the hysteria and fear that comes with these outbreaks — so to speak — can cause humans to do and believe some pretty incredible things.   The no-win situations we twist ourselves into just to be “right” and “certain,” that we're the ones who are healthy and “they” are the afflicted ones, not only look foolish when seen through the 20/20 perspective of hindsight, but in real-time affect peoples' lives in some extremely damaging and destructive ways.   Check out more of Steije's work at https://www.uu.nl/medewerkers/STHofhuis, and connect with Steije on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/steije-hofhuis-1aa88363/.    Order my book, "Can I Ask A Question?" at https://michaelashford.com/caniaskaquestion.   Subscribe to my YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@michaeldashford. 

You know the old saying “Never judge a book by its cover?”   I'll admit, this week's guest put me to the test.   Gary John Bishop is what he calls an “urban philosopher” and a New York Times bestselling author of titles such as Stop Doing That Sh*t, Wise and F*ck, Love Unf*cked, and his most well-known work, Unf*ck Yourself.   Gary's got a new book out called “Grow Up: Becoming the Parent Your Kids Deserve.” And when I agreed to the interview, I did so with a heavy dose of skepticism.   But trust me when I tell you, my expectations of this conversation and the conversation that actually took place could not be more different.   In this interview, Gary brings a depth and perspective about personal growth, blame, truth, and yes, even a little bit of parenting that left my first impressions of Gary and his work in tatters.   As Gary wrote in his book, “Grow Up” is a must for all human beings, regardless of their parental status, and the same holds true for this conversation and the wisdom Gary shares in encouraging us all to be someone who can ask a question that changes everything.

We live in a world where the individual is celebrated and held up as the first and last option, and reliance on others is shamed and degraded in many ways.   Yet, it goes against who we are and who we are made to be.   We're tribal.   We work best in small groups, sharing resources and working together to solve problems.   But what happens when this tribe drive goes haywire?   David Samson believes our bent towards tribalism has its negative consequences, but it can be overcome, and tribalism and understanding the ways we work together as humans can actually be a good thing, if we pay attention to it.   David is an associate professor of biological anthropology at the University of Toronto, and the author of the book Our Tribal Future: How to channel our foundational human instincts into a force for good.   As you'll hear from David and as he writes in his book, no one is immune from the biases, notions, and tribal bents that govern your worldview, and by extension, how you aim to solve problems. Accepting this, and then critically examining how this has shaped your perception of reality, can be an unlock to communicating across differences and divides, and to actually solving real challenges and issues.  

I am thrilled to welcome John Noltner back to the show for another conversation on what it means to intentionally seek out and create peace.   After John and I first connected in the fall of 2021 for episode 62, John and his wife sold their home, moved into a van, and set out on the road interviewing people from all walks of life to uncover their stories — the stories that reveal the common ground we share.   John has a new book about to be released that documents these travels called "Lessons on the Road to Peace," and he and I discuss what he learned along the way.   Check out John's work at https://apomm.net/.

I've mentioned many times that I am a lifelong Christian, and perhaps when you heard that you made some assumptions about me — about what I believe, about what I am not only for, but what I am against, about how I see the world and those living in it.   And know that I'm not judging you for that. That's a human thing to do.   But the conversation you're about to hear might challenge a lot of those assumptions — whether you're Christian or not. Whether you believe in God or don't.    This conversation with Pastor Mark Feldmeir explores the many questions I and many others like me are asking about our faith, undergirded by this notion or idea that questioning faith is actually a good thing.   Mark is the author of a new book called Life After God: Finding Faith When You Can't Believe Anymore. In it, Mark challenges the understanding of God that many Christians insist is so clear in the Bible, but that makes faith seem like an all-or-nothing proposition.   Connect with Mark on his website at https://www.markfeldmeir.com/ and on Twitter/X at https://twitter.com/feldmeir.    Connect with me at https://michaelashford.com, and subscribe to my newsletter at https://michaelashford.com/newsletter to receive a special bonus worksheet!

Much of our language these days carries with it an unspoken message — an undertone of an individualistic, self-serving, perhaps even entitled mindset about not just our actions, but our beliefs and opinions.   But what of our responsibilities to others? Do those even exist? Or, what of our responsibilities to question ourselves? Is that a thing?   In this episode, I welcome back Andy Norman. Andy was my guest back in episode 65 when we discussed his book, Mental Immunity, and he's the Co-Founder and CEO of The Mental Immunity Project.   Andy and I discuss belief attachment and its role in driving us to be more unthinkingly binary in how we view complex issues and indiscriminately suspicious of new ideas.   What Andy advocates for is what he calls “shades of gray thinking” as a way to invite in nuance and dig out of a binary mindset where you're forced to have all the answers all the time (which, by the way, simply isn't possible).   At the core of Andy's message is a call to hold onto beliefs lightly and be willing to challenge them, not to necessarily prove yourself wrong, but to be more adept at recognizing when and why your capacity to think critically might be weakened or perhaps even intentionally hijacked.   Check out Andy's work at https://andynorman.org/ and https://mentalimmunityproject.org/, and take the Mental Immunity challenge at https://mentalimmunityproject.org/mi-challenge/. 

In this episode, I welcome Josh Lewis, the host of Saving Elephants, a podcast and blog espousing the goodness and benefits of the conservative tradition in the United States.   Josh believes bad actors have hijacked conservatism, and if true conservatism is to survive — where the wisdom of the past is applied to the challenges of the present — then it will be up to Millennials to recapture its true meaning.   In 2016, Josh stepped down as the treasurer of the Tulsa County Oklahoma Republican Party when he saw conservatism going in a direction that strayed from its historical foundations set for by people like Edmund Burke, Thomas Sowell, and William F. Buckley.   Josh and I discuss his draw to the original premise of conservatism, the modern Republican party and Donald Trump, as well as his overarching belief that true conservatism embraces lively yet civil dialogue.   Check out Josh's work at https://www.savingelephantsblog.com/ and connect with Josh at https://twitter.com/svngelephants.

What happens if we never shed our child ego as we graduate into adulthood? How might someone show up in the world if they never emotionally mature past the child ego state, especially when conflict is present?   Dr. Reneé Carr is a psychologist and an advisor to political leaders at the state and national levels. Reneé's gift is the ability to apply her background and understanding of psychology to not only help explain but to also help solve social challenges and problems, especially in instances where conflict is present and our ego gets in the way.    The cynic in you and in me only sees the conflict. The child ego in us only lets us see issues from our vantage point.   What Reneé shares in this episode is a reframing of conflict, one of opportunity and not threat to you and your needs, where we can discuss controversial issues without creating division — whether that be in politics or perhaps more relevant to you and me, even in our families, our friend groups, and our workplaces.   Want to be more confident in how you deliver your message? Check out my speaking and communications coaching. 

In this solo episode, I give you a behind-the-scenes look at what went into my new book, Can I Ask A Question?   I reveal the themes and principles that inspired the book, which includes my ASK then SEE method of communicating through conflict.   My book is available for preorder at https://michaelashford.com/caniaskaquestion until Sept. 20, 2023. The book will be publicly available in mid-October.

What is active listening, and how does it make someone a good listener?   These days, the answers to those questions are complicated, mostly because we've lost sight of the goal of listening.   In this solo episode, I tackle how active listening has been warped into something it was never intended to be, and how we can refocus ourselves on the true definition of listening.   Preorder my book, Can I Ask A Question, at https://michaelashford.com/caniaskaquestion.    Check out my speaking and communications coaching at https://michaelashford.com/communicate-well-coaching. 

If I were to ask, “Do you know someone addicted to drama?” there's a good chance someone's name and face immediately popped into your mind.   In the immortal words of those epic modern day poets, The Black Eyed Peas: "I think the whole world's addicted to the drama; Only attracted to things that'll bring you trauma."   As it turns out, the Peas weren't too far off.   My guest in this episode is Dr. Scott Lyons a psychologist, a renowned body-based trauma expert, and the author of the book “Addicted to Drama: Healing Dependency on Crisis & Chaos in Yourself and Others”   As you'll hear from Scott, drama addiction is a very real thing far beyond a label you might throw out when you're annoyed by someone's behavior, and like so many other addictions, it is often wildly misunderstood — how it starts, what it's masking, and ultimately, what's needed to overcome and resolve it.  

Imagine I'm standing right across from you and I tell you I'm thinking about eating a steak. Psychology tells us that you likely would assume that was true, and that actually, you assume the things most people tell you are true.   But how can you be sure?   In this episode, I speak with Dr. Kurt Gray, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of North Carolina and the Director of the Deepest Beliefs Lab as well as the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding.   I came across Kurt's work when I watched his TEDx Talk, What Am I Thinking, where he illustrates just how hard it is to know what's in another person's mind and in turn, what might be true for them.   It's called the problem with other minds, and it is a major stumbling block when it comes to the things we value, our morals as individuals, and our ability to communicate across disagreements and divides.   Watch Kurt's TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQmQMCi5mNc   Check out Kurt's work: https://www.kurtjgray.com/   Follow Kurt on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kurtjgray 

Is there anything a person can do that makes them unworthy of our empathy, curiosity, or compassion?   What if they've done something truly heinous?   This episode features my conversation with Robin Steinberg, who spent 35 years as a public defender in New York representing people in court who couldn't afford a lawyer, many of whom had undeniably committed horrific crimes.    In her book, “The Courage of Compassion: A Journey from Judgment to Connection,” and in this conversation, Robin makes the case that even in instances where a person has committed a crime, they are still worthy of being treated with dignity. While she acknowledges that even for her, practicing compassion for people who have committed crimes doesn't always come instinctively, getting there is made easier by asking a question that creates a perspective shift — Would you want your entire worth as a person judged by the worst mistake you ever made?   Robin is on a mission to help people maintain their humanity throughout their experience in the United States legal system, which Robin says crushes people before they are ever convicted of a crime, even in instances where the accused is innocent.   I encourage you to listen closely to what Robin is advocating for. She's not asking for excuses…she's asking for curiosity.

There's an unanswered question lingering in the air amongst all the talk that focuses on dialogue and bridging divides and finding common ground.   And that question is: What happens when we have to move beyond conversation and achieving understanding and we actually have to start producing solutions to problems? What do we do then?   It's an important question because dialogue can only get us so far … or so it seems.   To help me answer this question, I invited Mónica Guzmán back onto the show. Mónica is the Senior Fellow for Public Practice at a political depolarization non-profit called Braver Angels, and she first joined me back in episode 81 shortly after the release of her book, "I Never Thought of it That Way."   As it turns out, this question of "what do we do when we actually have to solve problems?" is at the forefront of Mónica's mind as well, and she recognizes just how difficult it can be when competing values are placed on the table. In these scenarios, it's easy to slip into a zero-sum mentality, where for me and my side and my ideas to win, the other side has to experience total defeat.   Mónica and I discuss just how important language matters in these conversations, and how it might be the key to uncovering entirely new ways of looking at and solving problems.   Learn more about Braver Angels at https://braverangels.org/, and connect with Mónica on Twitter at https://twitter.com/moniguzman.    Listen to Mónica's previous appearance on The Follow-Up Question at https://michaelashford.com/episodes/ep-81-monica-guzman-the-perspective-changing-power-of-asking-what-am-i-missing

Understanding yourself better by exploring the makeup of your ideas and beliefs about the way the world works — or perhaps even the way the world should work — is a must if you are to have better, more productive, more actionable conversations when conflict is present.   And often, this soul-searching work creates a psychological safety that allows you to show up more confidently as yourself in all situations so that other people's views don't feel so threatening to you.   My guest this week is Mariama Whyte, a singer and actress who was a part of the Broadway National Tours for The Lion King and The Color Purple. I met Mariama in the months leading up to the TEDxManitouSprings Fluidity Event that was held on Dec. 3, 2022, during which she delivered her talk titled “How to Trust Your Voice and Speak with Confidence Anywhere.”   When Mariama finished her talk, I knew I wanted to have her on this podcast. During my conversation with Mariama, she explained what it looks like to do the deep work of figuring out how you best show up in the world and how it fuels her belief that we're here not to just be, but to become.   Watch Mariama's TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWRSFWsNW98   Subscribe to my newsletter, The Follow-Up: https://michaelashford.com/newsletter

What shifts in the moment someone tosses aside your unique humanity in favor of a damaging and hurtful stereotype? Where you become a caricature of a certain type of person in someone's mind rather than the nuanced and intricate person standing in front of them?   This week's guest, Tim Wenzel, believes that for so many of us, we're conditioned to be thoughtless in our response to being mislabeled or misunderstood — we buy into the fiction that our response should be more about the clap-back rather than the step-back.   Tim has been there, and he's sharing his experiences and perspectives here in this episode.   Tim is the creator of The Kindness Games, a challenge born out of the recent pandemic intended to counter the disruption, hate, and discontent that has engulfed our world. It's an initiative rooted in following your curiosity rather than your ego, because as Tim details in our conversation, he knows firsthand that tension, conflict, and distrust can be overcome when you choose to respond to the sting of a stereotype with curiosity.    Check out The Kindness Games at https://thekindnessgames.com/ and connect with Tim on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/relevant-perception/. 

What is the purpose of conversation?   Well, Fred Dust believes it's change.   Fred is the author of the book Making Conversation, and in this, well, conversation, Fred shares why creating change is an elemental component of the most valuable and creative method we have of communicating with each other.   And here's the trickiest part: the best, most productive, most creative conversations that actually solve problems often require the parties involved being individually open to change while at the same time acknowledging that they're not trying to change anyone else in that moment. It's nuanced and perhaps a bit confusing, I know, but if you're like me, once you hear Fred explain it, you'll come away more optimistic about the possibilities.   Connect with Fred on Twitter at https://twitter.com/f_dust or follow his work at https://www.dustand.co/.   

What you hear in this episode is the rawest and most emotional interview I've ever done. And it's not even close.   When I first connected with Racquel Garcia, I was intrigued by her story of starting her organization, HardBeauty, where she and her team help people overcome and survive addiction, depression, homelessness, mental health issues, sexual assault, and domestic violence, among many other traumas.   Racquel is a Certified Addiction Counselor, Interventionist, and Recovery Coach, but she's far more than those titles could ever explain. Racquel's story exposes the deep complexities within every person's story, and yet, her dreams and desires for her own life are the same that so many of us share — that bottomless, all-consuming yearning to find a safe place to call home.   A word of warning, the topics we discuss include murder, drug use, sexual assault, and suicidal ideation, and the language gets a little intense at times.   As you listen to Racquel's story, check in with yourself and ask yourself, “What would I have done?”   Learn more about HardBeauty at https://www.hardbeauty.life/.

I'm more than 100 episodes into this podcast now, and along the way, many of the guests I've had on the show have introduced me to some words and phrases that I'd never heard before yet have helped give me the vocabulary to appropriately express the things I see in this messy world.   My guest in this episode brings with him another word and another definition that I was previously unaware of that deepens my understanding of the world we live in, and I hope it does the same for you, too. You're going to have to listen to hear what that word is.   Matthew Trombley actually lives about 30 minutes away from me here in Colorado, but until I came across his TED Talk, The Beauty and Complexity of Finding Common Ground, I didn't know Matt.   But we grabbed coffee one snowy winter day and got a chance to hear each other's story, and, well, now he's here on my show. Obviously, something Matt said resonated with me.   As you get ready to listen to Matt's story and his perspective of conflict and common ground, please understand this: When we start our relationships with people from a place of fighting and arguing, we tend to turn our convictions into weapons. And I ask you: Is that how you want to show up in the world?   Listen to Matt's TED Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UdTys0yd90

Here's the thing about listening: the person being listened to has to feel heard for true listening to have taken place. And not just what they say, but how they say it, and what they mean by what they say.   My guest this week is Oscar Trimboli, host of the Deep Listening podcast, author of the book How To Listen, and a man on a mission to create 100 million deep listeners specifically in the workplace.   Oscar delivers some of the most profound and paradigm-shifting wisdom I've heard on the topic of listening because Oscar believes there's doing listening, and then there's being listening.   He describes listening as a contact sport, and that the best listeners realize when they're not listening faster than others, and that you can begin to offer true wisdom to someone else when you become more concerned about their outcome of the conversation rather than your own.   In this, the 100th episode of this podcast, I'm grateful that Oscar took the time to listen to me during the course of this interview and provided an example of how I can improve my own listening, just as we all can.

The polarized nature of American politics, the zero-sum nature of seemingly every issue, the ways our leaders act and create policy not because they stand for something, but because they want to oppose the other side … it's all just … exhausting.   Many Americans are in what's called "the exhausted majority," and this exhaustion can quickly turn to political apathy if the power of a collective voice is not realized.   My guest this week is Manu Meel, CEO of BridgeUSA, a youth-led nonprofit that creates spaces on high school and college campuses for open discussion between students about political issues. Manu and some friends started what would eventually become BridgeUSA when he was a student at UC Berkeley, and the movement has grown to span the country on more than 50 college campuses.   As you'll hear, Manu's journey as the son of Indian immigrants could have easily taken a turn towards political apathy, but he made the conscious decision to go in a different direction. That's because Manu believes that humans like talking to each other in constructive spaces, and if that's true, then he wants the exhausted majority to know that we are "never out of the fight."   Learn more about BridgeUSA's work at https://www.bridgeusa.org/, and connect with Manu on Twitter at https://twitter.com/ManuMeel_.   

I'm switching things up in this episode, as this time, it's my turn to be interviewed.   This is an interview I did with Kwame Christian on his Negotiate Anything podcast in late 2022.   In this conversation, Kwame and I discuss how to communicatively hold space for someone, the psychology of change, and what it means to ask curious questions.   You can listen to Kwame's podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/negotiate-anything/id1101679010    You can listen to Kwame's appearance on The Follow-Up Question at https://michaelashford.com/episodes/ep-94-kwame-christian-to-have-difficult-conversations-about-race-we-must-practice-the-skills-to-do-so   Learn more about my communications and speaking coaching at https://michaelashford.com/communicate-well-coaching 

Lately, I've been fascinated by the psychology of change.   There came a point in late 2022 when I started to notice that many of the conversations I've had here on the show have carried with them an undertone of change. I've gone back and listened to many of the interviews, and change pops up quite frequently.   In fact, based on what I've gathered, one of the chapters of the book I'm currently writing asks the question: Do you believe people can change?   It is such a fun question because everyone I've ever asked that question of has answered me with an optimistic yes.   However, what I've noticed is that we often don't act this way. We act as if people cannot change on their own, and so we try to force change to happen.   And we all know how that goes, right? I mean, I know I love being forced to change, don't you?   But if we believe people can change, and we acknowledge true change can't be forced, then how and why does it happen?   This is what I wanted to explore with Jeff Schoep. Jeff was my guest here on the show back in episode 57, and you might recall that Jeff is the former leader of the largest neo-Nazi organization in the United States, the National Socialist Movement.   Now, Jeff has left that world and ideology behind, and instead, he works to deradicalize others.   Jeff is someone who has gone through a radical change, so who better to walk through the psychology of change with than Jeff? Who better to understand what brings about change and why it's so hard, even when the thing we are clinging to is, to so many of us, so obviously wrong?   Check out Jeff's work at https://beyondbarriersusa.org/.