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In this episode Divya speaks with Rachel Carmenta, Associate Professor of Climate Change and International Development at the University of East Anglia. They discuss Rachel's recent work on the poverty–biodiversity loss association (PBLA) and the idea of connected conservation. In this scholarship, Rachel and her colleagues critically examine how mainstream conservation narratives have often framed poor and rural communities as drivers of biodiversity decline, while overlooking the larger structural forces, such as extractive industries, unsustainable patterns of consumption, and unequal political and economic systems, that are central to environmental degradation and biodiversity loss. They also discuss how poverty is often reduced to income deprivation and how that framing has made conservation and development programs to focus heavily on cash-based incentives and payment schemes. Rachel argues that poverty is way more than income deprivation; instead, it must be understood as multidimensional, encompassing wellbeing, dignity, health, education, security, and access to social services. This broader understanding challenges narrow approaches to both poverty alleviation and conservation governance. Another important theme in their discussion is connected conservation, which emphasizes the interconnected relationships between people, ecosystems, livelihoods, cultural practices, and local knowledge systems, rather than viewing conservation and human wellbeing as separate or competing goals. In this context, Rachel reflects on biocultural conservation and the importance of recognizing the ways communities live with, care for, and understand their environments and what these relationships can teach us about more just and meaningful approaches to conservation in a rapidly changing world. References: Carmenta, R., Lima, M.G.B., Choiruzzad, S.A., Dawson, N., Estrada-Carmona, N., Hicks, C., Kallis, G., Nana, E., Killick, E., Lees, A. and Martin, A., 2025. Unveiling pervasive assumptions: moving beyond the poverty-biodiversity loss association in conservation. Current Opinion in Environmental Sustainability, 74, p.101537. Tebboth, M.G., Carmenta, R., Minas, A., Adelekan, A., Cao, X., Fullonton, A., Kinally, C., Cataldo, N.L., Mander, S. and Shelton, C., 2025. The ‘how'of transformation: Principles for a justice-centered response to the climate and biodiversity crises. Environment: Science and Policy for Sustainable Development, 67(3), pp.7-23. Carmenta, R., Barlow, J., Lima, M.G.B., Berenguer, E., Choiruzzad, S., Estrada-Carmona, N., França, F., Kallis, G., Killick, E., Lees, A. and Martin, A., 2023. Connected Conservation: Rethinking conservation for a telecoupled world. Biological Conservation, 282, p.110047. Lapola, D.M., Pinho, P., Barlow, J., Aragão, L.E., Berenguer, E., Carmenta, R., Liddy, H.M., Seixas, H., Silva, C.V., Silva-Junior, C.H. and Alencar, A.A., 2023. The drivers and impacts of Amazon forest degradation. Science, 379(6630), pp. 8622. Carmenta, R., Zaehringer, J.G., Balvanera, P., Betley, E., Dawson, N.M., Estrada‐Carmona, N., Forster, J., Hoelle, J., Lliso, B., Llopis, J.C. and Menon, A., 2023. Exploring the relationship between plural values of nature, human well‐being, and conservation and development intervention: Why it matters and how to do it?. People and nature, 5(6), pp.1720-1738.

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