Podcast appearances and mentions of ida abbott

Get to know these successful thought leaders and find out how they present themselves and their crafts as experts in their fields. Aidan Sowa is the CEO of Sowa Marketing Agency. He specializes in helping luxury realtors with web design in Providence. He and his team's hard work allows Sowa Marketing Agency to produce rocket-fueled marketing masterpieces daily. They offer you the same results as big agencies at small agency prices. If you're a luxury realtor and are not recognized as top-tier, you should contact Aidan Sowa by visiting his website at https://sowaagency.co.  Stanley Tsiamoulis is the CEO and Founder of Zeneth Culture. He is also the Creator of The ESP Code Numerology. He helps and guides you to your ultimate purpose in life, with clarity using numbers. His thirst for seeking and going deeper down the rabbit hole since the year 2000, with spirituality always as his foundation, also led him to seek the beautiful science of Numerology and Astrology. In December 2011, he created his own synergized modality called The ESP Code. (Essence, Soul, Purpose). If you're a CEO and looking for clarity and focus on that next #Decision, you have to reach out to Stanley Tsiamoulis by visiting his website at https://zenethculture.com/ or https://www.linkedin.com/in/stanleytsiamoulis/. Ida Abbott is the President of Ida Abbott Consulting. She is also a retirement specialist, legal talent strategist, speaker, and author. She was one of the first people to specialize in lawyers' professional development and retention and in advancing women into leadership. Her practice focuses on the power of mentoring relationships to guide, support, and transform professional careers from the beginning of practice through retirement. If you're part of the executive team of a law firm and you want to have a dignified retirement process put in place, you should reach out to Ida Abbott by visiting her website at https://IdaAbbott.com/.  Global Credibility Expert, Mitchell Levy is a TEDx speaker and international bestselling author of over 60 books. As The AHA Guy at AHAthat (https://ahathat.com), he helps to extract the genius from your head in a two-three hour interview so that his team can ghostwrite your book, publish it, distribute it, and make you an Amazon bestselling author in four months or less. He is an accomplished Entrepreneur who has created twenty businesses in Silicon Valley including four publishing companies that have published over 800 books. He's provided strategic consulting to over one hundred companies, and has been chairman of the board of a NASDAQ-listed company. Mitchell has been happily married for thirty years and regularly spends four weeks in Europe with family and friends. Visit https://mitchelllevy.com/mitchelllevypresents/ for an archive of all the podcast episodes.   Connect to Mitchell Levy on: Credibility Nation YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/3kGA1LI Credibility Nation LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/credibilitynation/ Mitchell Levy Present AHA Moments: https://mitchelllevy.com/mitchelllevypresents/ Thought Leader Life: https://thoughtleaderlife.com Twitter: @Credtabulous Instagram: @credibilitynation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the last episode of our The Life of a Lawyer Start to Finish series, we discussed Retirement with Ida Abbott. In this episode, we move on to the final rung of the ladder: The Aging Lawyer: Exiting Gracefully.   Host Craig Williams is joined by Tish Vincent, LMSW, Esq., Chair of the ABA Commission on Lawyers Assistance Programs, as they spotlight the aging lawyer. Craig & Tish discuss senior lawyers, possible warning signs of cognitive decline to look out for if a co-worker is suffering, how to approach, and where to go for help if you or a colleague are experiencing warning signs.

On the last episode of our The Life of a Lawyer Start to Finish series, we discussed Retirement with Ida Abbott. In this episode, we move on to the final rung of the ladder: The Aging Lawyer: Exiting Gracefully.   Host Craig Williams is joined by Tish Vincent, LMSW, Esq., Chair of the ABA Commission on Lawyers Assistance Programs, as they spotlight the aging lawyer. Craig & Tish discuss senior lawyers, possible warning signs of cognitive decline to look out for if a co-worker is suffering, how to approach, and where to go for help if you or a colleague are experiencing warning signs.

On the last episode of our The Life of a Lawyer Start to Finish series, we discussed Money Management for Lawyers with L.J. Jones. In this episode, we move on to the next rung of the ladder: Retirement.  Host Craig Williams is joined byIda O. Abbot, founder of Ida Abbott Consulting, as they tackle retirement. Ida & Craig take a look at when to start thinking about retiring as a lawyer, steps attorneys can take to prepare for retirement, and ultimately life post-retirement. Mentioned in This Episode: Retirement by Design: A Guided Workbook for Creating a Happy and Purposeful Future by Ida Abbott

On the last episode of our The Life of a Lawyer Start to Finish series, we discussed Money Management for Lawyers with L.J. Jones. In this episode, we move on to the next rung of the ladder: Retirement.  Host Craig Williams is joined byIda O. Abbot, founder of Ida Abbott Consulting, as they tackle retirement. Ida & Craig take a look at when to start thinking about retiring as a lawyer, steps attorneys can take to prepare for retirement, and ultimately life post-retirement. Mentioned in This Episode: Retirement by Design: A Guided Workbook for Creating a Happy and Purposeful Future by Ida Abbott

  In this episode, Alay and Ida discuss:  Preparing your firm for an uncertain future.  What retirement means in 2022.  … Succession Planning with Ida Abbott Read More »

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ida Abbott discuss:Realigning your values and your work.Developing and retaining talent.Challenges lawyers face when considering and thinking about retirement.Examining who you are by choice, not by default. Key Takeaways:People want to feel a sense of belonging and community in their firms.Loyalty is earned and ever changing. It needs to be constantly developed and the relationships maintained.65 is an arbitrary number decided by the social security system. Your retirement is your own and you can decide when is the right time for you.Keep a personal interests list. Figure out what is interesting to you now and when you get to a point where you need to decide what you are going to do, you have a list of things you already are interested in. "It's a lot of internal investigation, self exploration, and then recognizing the myths and the misunderstandings that hold you back. Retirement means it's the end, if that's what you believe. I ask you to reframe it. It's not the end. Think of somebody you know, who's retired, who is doing something cool. And if you don't know anybody personally, start looking around online, they are everywhere." —  Ida Abbott Connect with Ida Abbott:  Website: https://idaabbott.com/Email: ida@idaabbott.comBook: https://idaabbott.com/books/retirement-by-design/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ida-abbott-9a0736Twitter: https://twitter.com/IdaOAbbottFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/sponsoringwomenbook Thank you to our Sponsors!Legalese Marketing: https://legaleasemarketing.com/Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Ida Abbott is a successful attorney whose current practice focuses on mentoring, sponsorship and retirement. The Wall Street Journal selected her most recent book, "Retirement by Design", as one of the 6 best books of 2020 on retirement and aging. The new and innovative, self-coaching approach of "Retirement by Design" helps you spearhead and navigate a major next step in life. Find out more at IdaAbbott.com. Check out https://copenotes.com/zestful for an innovative app that supports mental health. Find out more about the Zestful Aging Podcast at ZestfulAging.com.

In this episode, Stephen E. Seckler, Esq. talks about how lawyers should adopt marketing strategies that feel comfortable and how hiring a coach make a big difference in building a law practice. Steve also talks about how he coaches lawyers through career transitions.  He describes the work he is now doing with senior lawyers who are trying to decide what comes next. Steve is host of his own podcast, Counsel to Counsel. He is a lawyer who has dedicated his entire career to helping attorneys find more career satisfaction. Timestamps:How young lawyers can overcome marketing challenges (3:52)Marketing tips for all kinds of lawyers (15:18)The importance of getting a coach and business development tips (27:44)The next stage for seniors (36:54) “Find a niche that you really like and enjoy, really go deep with that niche, you want to be known for something. When you're a young lawyer, again, the focus really should be on being a great lawyer giving great client service.” - Stephen Seckler Connect with Stephen Seckler:Website: http://www.counseltocounsel.com/LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/stephenseckler Stephen Seckler, President of Seckler Legal Recruiting and CoachingLegal Recruiting and CoachingStephen Sackler is a lawyer with over 25 years with marketing and career counseling experience working with other attorneys. He hosts the Counsel to Counsel Podcast where he interviews leading attorneys and consultants about the legal profession and his blog Counsel to Counsel has been twice named to the ABA Journal's Blawg 100. LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenseckler/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  1:53  Our guest today is Stephen Sackler, a lawyer with over 25 years with marketing and career counseling experience working with other attorneys. Even hosts, he hosts the podcast Council, the counselor, where he interviews legal leading attorneys and consultants about the legal profession. And his blog counselor counselor has been twice named to the ABA journal journals blog 100. So the juror doctor is in Stephen, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Happy to be here. Hey, let's get started a little bit by laying some groundwork and talk about your background and how you found your calling and helping other attorneys achieve success.Stephen Seckler  2:52  Okay, well, it's been a long journey. I did go to law school. And when I graduated, I wasn't feeling that motivated to continue. On my journey to become a practicing lawyer. I made a stab at finding a legal job. But then I stumbled into Massachusetts continuing legal education, where I was developing continuing education programs, I was hobnobbing with the leaders of the bar in Massachusetts. And I got very interested in marketing, business development. Interested in general career development, I also saw how some of the leaders of the bar were really cultivating and building their own careers. So in 1997, about seven years after I began that I decided to launch my own consulting business. And initially, I was really focused heavily on recruiting. More recently, I have been focused much more on coaching lawyers on how to grow their practice, as you said, and how to manage their careers. And that's what I've been doing for the last 20 years or so.Ron Bockstahler  3:52  So Steve, let's kind of start with some of the challenges new lawyers are facing and building the practice. And I kind of really want to hit maybe a little focus on the marketing of their services and building their book of business.Stephen Seckler  4:04  Sure, well, what I always say to young lawyers is that when you're beginning your legal career, the most important thing you could do is become a great lawyer, learn your craft. Try to learn as much as you can about whatever practice area you're in. But at a certain point, and especially for lawyers who stay in private practice, having your own clients is really what's going to make you a much happier lawyer. In my observation over the last 2530 years. It's the lawyers who really have their own clients who have their own book of business that have more career flexibility, and they're basically just happier. And that's not entirely true because there are some niche practice areas that don't lend themselves as well, to business development. But for the most part, a lot of lawyers in private practice are happier when they have their own clients.Ron Bockstahler  4:52  Now, I seen I believe you're on Steve Breton show not too long ago. Be that be that attorney I think is what his show is called. And, you know, Steve's always about building your book of business. And that's what really brings your value, either at the firm or when you go in on your own. But how do you build that book of business? You know, what's been your journey? If I met a big firm, I mean, I'm working your big time hours, I don't have time to go out and really make relationships. And what are you how are you suggesting a young attorney that's 10, a few years 10 or fewer years practicing to build their book.Stephen Seckler  5:30  So the first thing is to find a niche that you really like and enjoy and really go deep with that niche, you want to be known for something. When you're a young lawyer, again, the focus really should be on being a great lawyer giving great client service. And the clients could be the lawyers who you report to the partners, as well as the real clients who are paying the fees. But as you get more senior, new, there are things that you can do to continue to lay the groundwork for success in business development. As a young lawyer, maybe you might help a partner prepare some course materials for a CLE program, maybe you might write some blog posts yourself, maybe you might post some things on social media. But basically, as a young lawyer, you can begin to develop this niche. And you could also begin to start to produce some content yourself. Maybe as you get a little bit more senior, you might appear on a panel or on a presentation, do a presentation, maybe it might be internal presentations. So even though there are very strong demands on young lawyers these days, to bill a lot of hours, there are little things that you could do. The other thing is as you get out of Well, as you leave law school, and you enter the working world, you still have relationships that will eventually bear fruit, these are people that you went to college with people that you went to law school with. And if you just maintain and keep up those relationships over time, those could blossom, it's not clear which ones will become business. But as a young lawyer, just making sure to get out of your office once in a while, or calling a friend, or getting on a zoom as we do now in the world of COVID. Just being aware that you can't build a practice, you won't be able to build a practice if you don't connect with the world. And you can lay the foundation and it's like investing for anything you invest for college, if you start at the moment, when you want to actually have enough money for college, it's kind of late if you start investing in the relationship building early on and just kind of pick away at it. It's like farming, you plant the seeds and they will grow.Ron Bockstahler  7:36  So you've helped a lot of attorneys adjust their careers either moving from one firm, maybe they weren't happy something wasn't working out to other firms. mean is it recommended to make a lot of moves within your career?Stephen Seckler  7:49  Well, within reason, I mean, it depends upon the reason for making the move. Sometimes people get off on the wrong foot, that's not an uncommon reason for somebody to make a lateral move. Lawyers are can be unforgiving, especially at the larger law firms in terms of how people make a bad first impression. So sometimes making a lateral move can help you with that. A better reason. And a lot of times the reasons that I help and have helped people make lateral moves, is because the firm didn't really have the kind of clients where they weren't able to do the kind of work that they wanted to do. And then sometimes they don't like the environment in general, they don't like the way the firm is run, the use of technology, the commitment to professional development. So there are sometimes non practice reasons why people make lateral moves.Ron Bockstahler  8:35  And it goes back to what you said earlier, find that niche that you really enjoy doing and just become the best at it. Yeah, that seems a common theme. I think that's what helps us create just happiness and what we're doing, which and let's we'll kind of hit on a little of the mental health issues in the legal industry. I know. You've recently had a guest on your show. Ida Abbott talked a little bit about, you know, designing or designing your retirement, I guess. And you know, when does that start? Well,Stephen Seckler  9:08  it's at some firms in reverse starts. But, but in a healthy firm, I think by the time lawyers are three or you know, beyond 30 years into practice, that's something they might want to be thinking about. And something I've been focusing on more lately. Because a healthy law firm has to keep praying or any organization that's healthy, has to keep bringing up the next generation of talent. And again, it's the same thing as investment. If you kind of wait until the day before you retire, you haven't really laid the groundwork for transitioning the clients. If you stay practicing until late into your 60s into your 70s you show no sign of relinquishing control over the firm. Then the up and coming talent may decide they're not going to stick around. So there's a threat to the firm because the clients may leave and there's a threat to the talent Management because the talent may leave. So I would argue that once you're into well into your 50s, that's when it's a good time to start thinking actually, from my own experience. When our last child went off to college in 2017, my wife and I participated in a program on aging. And it was a great program. And we didn't get the memo, like everybody else in the program was like, in their late 60s and early 70s. And what was so great about not they weren't lawyers, it was just other professionals, or the one of them was a musician who had trained as a lawyer in practice for a while. And what I realized is that it really never is too soon to be thinking about, about the next stage. So a couple of summers ago, I went out and bought a Martin guitar and started playing.Ron Bockstahler  10:47  Alright, already starting to plan that retirement.Stephen Seckler  10:51  Yeah, I won't be retired for a long time. ButRon Bockstahler  10:54  you know, I'd sent you that article recently. Martha McGarry, let's talk about that real quick scans. first female m&a partner says no to retirement to forced retirement at 70 and moves over to I believe, Mayor Brown, you know, what do you think of that? What kind of get some input on that?Stephen Seckler  11:12  I think it's a really, I think it's a conundrum because people age at different rates. I mean, it was talking to sort of have a hard and fast rule. May, you may have somebody that's got a lot of vibrancy at the age of 75. And you may have somebody that's really on the decline at the age of 70. So I heard two stories from the CEO of a law firm called burns and Levinson here in Boston. It's a midsize firm. And he told me two tales, one of a lawyer who was about 70, and had planned out a nice transition transition to all his clients over a period of three years, and then spent a lot more time with his grandchildren got involved in a lot of nonprofit causes and had a happy departure from the firm. And then he told me about another partner who was in his late 70s. And it was already experiencing some cognitive decline. And partners at the firm, were noticing it, the clients were starting to notice it. And eventually he ended up leaving the firm. He didn't want to relinquish control. He just wasn't ready to leave because he didn't know what he was going to do next. And he died a year later. I mean, it was sort of tragic.Ron Bockstahler  12:21  Yeah, that I can tell you within, you know, my firm and model office suites, I've it kind of thinking about that. And, you know, listening to your show with Ida, I went and looked back, and we've had seven law attorneys that have passed away while still, you know, working in our spaces. And two of my specifically recall talking to about when they retire, and they said when I die. And well, I yeah, I don'tStephen Seckler  12:48  I don't think that's the wrong answer for everybody. But I think that, you know, there are some people that really get meaning it's all about meaning. It's like, it's the existential question of where do you how do you derive meaning and I think for some people, like I had a friend whose father was a lawyer, and he went into the office until he was in his late 80s. He just loved being a lawyer. I mean, he wasn't going in full time. And you know, by the time he was in his late 80s, he certainly wasn't doing a ton of client work. But you can't really say, you know, like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, she was a Supreme Court justice until well into her 80s. Now, for political reasons. Some may say that that was a colossal mistake if you happen to lean the way I do. But she was vibrant. She was sharp, she was producing great work, and she loved her work. So I don't think the there's a right answer for anybody. I think a large firm though, like, like Skadden or any of the bigger institutions, I mean, I know accounting firms actually have mandatory retirement at a much younger age. They're like, 62, I think I heard. And the reasoning there is that, again, it's the succession planning issue. It's how are the clients going to have confidence that they're going to continue to be served? How are the up and coming talent going to perceive that there's going to be room for them. But I mean, I don't think a healthy model is to say you have to leave I think a healthier model is I think it's good when Proctor has a model where you have to give up your equity, maybe at the age of 67. I'm not sure what the ages. But it doesn't mean you have to leave, you can work out an arrangement where you can continue to do work. But you know, and that, and some lawyers do want to continue to do work. But some lawyers just haven't been able to figure out what they want to do next door. It's just terrifying to think about what's going to happen after the day they're not coming into the office. And so I'm doing a lot of work in that realm. And I'm really enjoying it.Ron Bockstahler  14:42  And I want to get to you have a new program called the next stage but before we get to that I kind of want to reel is back just a little bit. You know, a lot of our listeners are going to be on the younger side. 30s 40s 50s and 60s, I guess it's still we're talking about young and you're careful, careful. Let's talk a little bit more about some of the challenges are facing and you know, What is there? Is there a specific trait that really makes attorney really good at originating work going out and getting new business? Or is it is it a trade or something that they can learn?Stephen Seckler  15:18  So I used to think that any lawyer could become a good Rainmaker. And I don't mean like a $10 million Rainmaker, but I used to think that any lawyer could develop a practice. And now I think that most lawyers can develop a practice. There are some lawyers that literally will always be best suited to being in the back office, working on the deals by looking at the documents and not really interacting as much with the clients. So and that's fine. For some people, tax seems to be an area where that that seems to happen. But a lot of lawyers, a lot of the people that are in your offices could definitely improve their marketing skills. And I think the biggest problem that a lot of lawyers have is that they save marketing for a rainy day. They are busy, they're doing work, everything seems good. And then they wait until they don't have enough work. And then they start marketing. And successful marketing is really like the tortoise and the hare story, the tortoise is the one that's going to win the race, because, you know, you don't know when someone is going to have a need for your services. And I have a friend who's in my network in our networking group revisers, Michael Katz, and he talks about when he does presentations to people on marketing, he'll say how many of you are going to buy a refrigerator in the next 15 minutes. And like, nobody's going to buy a refrigerator the next 15 minutes, how many of you are going to buy a refrigerator the next 15 years. And of course, a lot of people are going to buy a refrigerator in the next 15 years. And that is the essence of the problem with selling professional services you don't know when somebody you meet is going to have a need for your services, or hear of somebody who has a need for your services. Therefore, showing up on a regular basis, making it a habit is really important. And it's really hard for lawyers, particularly at the larger law firms where the hours are grueling to set aside time to do that. But if you could make just a little bit of time to sort of systematically, drop a note forward an article, post something on LinkedIn and show up once in a while at a bar association meeting, connect with an old law school classmate, connect with a college classmate who's now in a corporate environment, those things over time will pay off because at some point in the future, somebody may have a need for your services. And somebody may know if somebody was a need for your services, or they may never have a need for your services. But you may hear of a need that they have.Ron Bockstahler  17:52  It's a great point. Now it add to that is be genuine. And you know, find a networking group or associations you can belong to that you really have an interest in. Not just you're not just going because you want to get work. It I think people can tell.Stephen Seckler  18:11  I agree. I mean, you and I are improvisers. And what I love about pro visors, I've been a member for two years. And I'm like not drinking the Kool Aid. I'm like guzzling it. And I say that jokingly. But I mean, what I love about it is people are just so eager to help each other. It's really almost not like the real world. I mean, I just got a referral of a lawyer who's thinking about the some of these existential issues. The person who, who referred me as a marketing consultant, so she's not a lawyer, but she met this person who seemed like she had a need. And she referred this woman to me, she said, You should call Steve. And she didn't, actually this woman followed up with me and said, Did so and so contact you said No, I haven't heard from her. But I really, really appreciate the referrals. Who said I'm going to call her again. And so she called her again. And she said, you know, you really talked to Steve. And we spoke and we're going to work together. It's, it's a, it's a great network. So finding a networking group where people are genuine and authentic, like providers, and we're not unique, but it really helps to be around people that are like minded.Ron Bockstahler  19:17  Yeah, that makes me think of you as a coach. Is it? Is it hard for other attorneys to admit they need a coach?Stephen Seckler  19:27  It's it's really hard for attorneys to think that they need a coach. I mean, lawyers are sort of trained to think they can go it alone. They're gonna figure it all out. I'm smart. And the best expression of this that I heard was another coach. He doesn't really work with lawyers. Somebody also improvisers Sergio symbol. And he didn't attribute the quote anywhere, but the quote is basically, you can't read the label from inside the jar. And the notion there is that we none of us are self reflective. I mean, the best coaches that I know improvisers all have coaches I mean, that's how, how meta it is. So why does a lawyer think that they went to law school? And they learned how to research, you know, case law? Why do they think they should know anything at all about marketing. I mean, a lot of a lot of the coaching, though, is motivational. It's getting people to act, and holding them accountable. So I'm not saying that what we do as coaches is rocket science all the time. Sometimes I provide content that people hadn't thought of, I give them ideas. A lot of it is just holding them accountable and saying, Hey, you know, you said you were gonna do 10 push ups. So what's getting in your way?Ron Bockstahler  20:39  That's, that's a great point, you spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars going and get this amazing education. And then you start spending on yourself to continue the self improvement. And it really takes a push, I think, to get not just attorneys, but all of us to just go out there and go ahead and do need someone to help me.Stephen Seckler  20:58  Well, again, it has to do with like, thinking with an investment mentality, I'm investing in something. And lawyers are not always so good at that, you know, you get a client, you do the work, you build it out, and you get back. The fees are paid, you know, in marketing, you have to do lots of different things, and many of them won't have any return. So when, you know, I never promised anybody that I'm going to increase their business by any particular amount. So it may seem a little bit nebulous for what value am I actually getting. But you know, Michael Jordan had a coach outside of Phil Jackson. I don't know, I'm not really a basketball fan. ButRon Bockstahler  21:45  let's, let's, if we, you know, it's interesting, looking at the return, you get on Marketing, and today, you drive down the highway, and you see a ton of billboards. And it's, I mean, I bet 60% of them are from law firms, or attorneys. At least that's my perception. What was it like, if you go back before 1976, I think when the Bates versus the State Bar of Arizona case, when attorneys actually couldn't market.Stephen Seckler  22:12  I think that was a world in which lawyers did good work. And the work came to them. And then if you were a young lawyer, you got to the law firm, you learned how to be a lawyer, and eventually those became your clients. That's not the world we live in anymore.Ron Bockstahler  22:29  Today, you gotta go. I've never actually called an attorney. From a marketing piece, I've always called someone I know, and said, Who do you know that can do this type of work?Stephen Seckler  22:41  Well, I mean, the kinds of lawyers that put the billboards out are trying to market to individuals, and the kinds of individuals they're trying to market to, they may not have a big professional network. I mean, lots of people get injured, some of them have big professional networks. If I were injured, if a family member of mine were injured, I wouldn't absolutely reach out to a lawyer I knew liked and trusted. I mean, I happen to know a lot of personal injury lawyers already. But you know, if it was an area of specialization that I didn't know, I would get a referral. But a lot of people don't have those networks. So those billboards, I think, still work. Social media is probably even more effective now, though, because when somebody has a need, it's pretty common for people to Google it. But I don't think the you know, the general counsel if you need to attacks, you know, if he needs an Ursa specialist. I don't think the general counsel of GE, is typing in Ursa and googling it, you know, right?Ron Bockstahler  23:35  Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, let's talk about you know, moving on from that, let's talk about other career issues that you are seeing attorneys are experiencing just in the attorneys you're working with, because I know you're working with quite a few.Stephen Seckler  23:48  So I really enjoy helping lawyers sort of think through career transitions. So a common theme is lawyers want to go in house. And helping them think that through. Those are some of the people that I work with on a coaching basis. And these are particularly people like if you're a fifth year corporate associate, at a large law firm, you're going to get called by recruiters, you're going to be able to go in house, you're going to be able to be reactive. But for the rest of the world wanting to go into a corporate environment, that may be a harder transition. So the skills that I work with my clients on in career transitions are kind of similar to the marketing skills, it's about networking, going out and getting information, building your network, leveraging the contacts that you have. I was recently working with a ninth year associate who didn't make partner so that involved a little bit of propping her up she hadn't she was at a big law firm and thought everything was going well and you know, as does happen at a lot of these firms. She was kind of Sideswipe I've been taken aback, we went through a whole process. And eventually, I actually ended up introducing into the firm where she's now working, which is a regional firm in another part of the country. And she's not only excited about no longer working at a large law firm, where the hours are really grueling. But she's also excited about starting to grow her practice. And so we worked on her networking skills and her communication. And through that, she was able to see that she actually has some skill in relationship building that will help her to build a practice as she enters this new firm, with, by the way, lower bill rates, I have other clients who decide that they want to start their own practice. I've helped lawyers through those transitions. And a lot of the clients I work with, it's really helping them be develop a marketing mentality, develop marketing habits. And that's where people see the word lawyers see the greatest value in coaching because they could see like a real ROI. Whereas career stuff is a little bit more nebulous.Ron Bockstahler  26:04  It just shows Is it true that if you can get someone to do something for 21 days, they can create a habit never worked for me? It didn't work for me that I just curious, if you find something that maybe I don't know about?Stephen Seckler  26:18  I don't know about the 21 days, it takes a long time to get people to change their their behavior. It really does. I mean, I don't know. I'm just thinking about myself, although I did realize that I needed to get rid of the COVID. Wait, I gave the Colt the COVID 15. And sometime around the beginning of May, that's when I really took the bull by the horns. And now, and I basically went to work, work out every single morning. Except for the day after I totaled my car, I thought I should take the day off after that. But long story, short story didn't matter. It was fine. I was fine. But now I woke up like for example today. And I didn't work out because at a very early meeting. And I felt like I my day didn't start off. Right, you know, I did meditate, which I do also when I wake up, so I you know, but I think it takes longer than 30 days actually to develop marketing habits, because it's very contrary to the way lawyers think they need to spend their time you know, it's hard to fight the billable hour, the billable hour, is immediate, in some ways immediate gratification, you're going to do the work, you're going to build it out. And for the most part, you're going to collect that money. It's a lot easier as humans for us to see. And be motivated to do things where we get immediate rewards. Marketing is something that you have to do over a long period of time. So working with a coach can help build that muscle, like the reward you might get is like, you know, Steve Sackler will say, like, that was a great meeting you just had good job. Attaboy. And I, you know, I say that jokingly, but I mean, you know, trust me, it really helps like, you know, I'm losing, I've lost my weight. And, you know, I'm telling I'm reporting to my wife, I get off the scale, and I text her right away. And she's like, that's great, you know, and I feel that much more motivated to keep working out every day and to cut down on the carbohydrates and eat more protein and, and not eat mindlessly.Ron Bockstahler  28:21  So those are things you get from a coach is that positive reinforcement. But, you know, you when you mentioned the attorney that nine years didn't make partner, I made me think do you ever talk about the shortage, maybe a shortness in your abilities? And how do you improve? You know, avoiding what your skill sets are?Stephen Seckler  28:41  I'm sorry, you mean? Like, if you're working on something where it's not really in your it's not really one of your strengths, but you're kind of doing it anyway?Ron Bockstahler  28:48  I guess it's kind of like card school? Do you have to come and say, you aren't a great networker, and let's talk about why you're not a great networker and what you can do to improve? Or is it all just all positive? Okay, well, I'm here to support you and make you build, youStephen Seckler  29:05  know, I mean, I have plenty of clients that I, you know, I have to work really hard with to sort of get them to act. And some of them will never do it. You know, they just, they'll try and they won't, I won't say that's most of them. But some people are just not wired that way. I mean, look, if you don't like playing golf, and I only throw golf out, because it's sort of like a quintessential business development tool. It doesn't work for me. But if you don't like golf, you're not going to play. You're not going to enjoy yourself that's going to come across, you're going to make excuses not to do it. So. So you have to find out find things to do that you like that are consistent with business development, with marketing with generating work, and if you fundamentally don't like people, and I don't mean like you're misanthrope, but you just you know you don't really like learning about where somebody is kids go to school, or I mean I enjoyed learning little details about people I'm very I'm a natural schmoozer, you know, but I mean you don't have to. I'm not a natural glad hander. But you know, if you if you really don't like doing that at all, then it's going to be hard to be successful. But I have a client who didn't see himself as a successful Rainmaker. I'll use the word Rainmaker, but I don't mean it to mean millions. And he went through this process with me, he'd been practicing for 20 years, and we had some somewhat of a book of business, but it wasn't, certainly wasn't enough to go to another ham law 50 firm. And he did end up getting a job with another amla 50 firm again, I made the introduction, I didn't do it as a recruiter. But he went through this whole process. And now he's like, Well, actually, I do like going to baseball games, I like going to, you know, I enjoy being a basketball game sporting events. I like having coffee with people. So we're focusing on those things that he likes doing. People always say like, wow, I don't want to go to networking functions. I don't like that, well, you don't have to go to networking functions. I mean, in some ways, actually, networking functions can be a big waste of time. There's a there's an event in Massachusetts, there's an organization called combined Jewish philanthropies. And it's a hugely successful fundraising organization. It doesn't fund just Jewish causes. But you know, there's a lot of social service agencies that get their money from CJP. And every year, they have a big accountants, and lawyers, dinner, they didn't have one this past year, obviously. And I always go, and I don't go back. And you know, the organizational make a big hype about it, I think it's frankly, if you don't know too many people, and you go to something like that, it's not necessarily a great use of your time, I don't go there because I expect to get have meaningful interactions or, or really get to know new people. Although sometimes I do meet new people, I go there, because I know I'm going to run into a lot of Jewish and non Jewish lawyers and accountants. And then I'll make appointments to have coffee with them and follow up. So I'll go to a meeting that has 1000 people. And I'll end up setting up three appointments after that. But I do it because I know I'm going to run into people. If somebody doesn't know anybody in that environment, that's going to be you know, you're not going to be motivated to do it. So I work with people to sort of figure out what are the things that they're going to enjoy that are going to give them the opportunities to make the connections that might lead to direct work or referrals?Ron Bockstahler  32:25  So you kind of just took it right? Where I was thinking I want to go? And maybe I wasn't asking my question in the best way. But you got what I was looking for anyway, was, you know, I talked to a lot of attorneys and including myself to say, I hate networking. And okay, there's other things you can do you maybe you hate the concept, but there's things you do like, like, you know, just like going to a baseball game, that figure out the things you do enjoy doing and do those things. And you can still build your book of business through those type of activities, not necessarily the ones you don't like to do.Stephen Seckler  32:58  Exactly. I mean, if you like nonprofit work, community work, you know, you want to choose those activities where you're going to meet the kinds of people you want to meet. So like my my one of my I have a lot of stupid dad jokes that I use when I coach but one of my repeat jokes is, you know, if you want to marry somebody Jewish, don't hang out a Catholic singles dances. I've been married happily for 27 years, every month at the moment plus, but anyway. So so you have to choose those, you know, if you have your choice between two activities, or two people that you're gonna have coffee with. And one of them is a social worker. And the other one is the CFO of a bank, and you want to do more work with banks, then go have coffee with the bank doesn't mean bank CFO, it doesn't mean you shouldn't have coffee with your friend, the social worker, but you know, we only have a limited amount of time. So if you're going to make time to do business, development, marketing, do the things that are things that you enjoy, as you're saying, and things that will potentially lead you to the community that you want to get to be known. Absolutely, IRon Bockstahler  34:12  can tell you a real funny story is. So Steve fretts has been a client of mine for many, many, many years. And I went to him this is a friend one day and I said my partner had retired and my partner was the I call them the ultimate sales guy talked to everyone just loved doing that and allowed me to kind of sit in the background. And I sat Steve's asked and I said I got a problem. I hate networking. I hate more hate talking to people I hate all these things. He's like, Ron, you really don't have to go any Why don't you just open up your Rolodex. And you can kind of show your age and talk about a Rolodex and just start calling people you already know. And, you know, I'd looked at him I said because I never thought of that. So that was as simple as you know, here's a resource you already have. You don't got to go do a mixer of 100 people and you know, stand at the corner and talk to one person Don't go to that mixer. Just make phone calls with people you know. And you another thing I did, you know not liking these things as the Simon Wiesenthal Center is a big organization, you know, worldwide but in Chicago, Allison slovan peers, one of my good friends, and she's the director. So she would invite me to these events and I say house, I really just don't want to go first, I'm not Jewish. No, you'll go, you'll have your good time. And I started going, and then I started buying a table. And then I started bringing people. And all of a sudden, you know, I built so many good solid relationships from doing something that I enjoyed. Now, they have the woman women of valor luncheon, except for this year, almost every year. And you go to things like that where you can, it's, it's your passion, something you're passionate about. Next thing, you know, you're building great relationships, and you don't even realize you're networking, if you will.Stephen Seckler  35:54  Well, it's interesting that you bring up Steve frets, and because I've been getting to know him well, and I'm learning a tremendous amount from them. And Steve will take what I just said about not spending time at the Catholic singles dances, to the next extreme and and say that, if you're having networking meetings, try to structure them, so that you can come to them thinking about how you can help each other so that you're not just having random acts of lunch and coffee. And he's really good at that, you know, just because we all have ways that we can help each other. And it doesn't mean that, you know, there's any specific thing that I'm going to get out of it. But if I could help somebody else, then you know, you never know, you never know when you're gonna meet your wife or your, your wife, sister.Ron Bockstahler  36:38  Well, and that's what I call being genuine, right, you're going because you got a genuine reason not because you're looking for something. And I think that makes a big difference. So we're kind of run out of time. So I really want you to talk about the next stage for seniors that you've got going on in your program your you've launched.Stephen Seckler  36:54  So the next stage is really something that I've gotten very excited about over the last year and a half. So as you know, I sent you an article I wrote, my parents died at the beginning of the pandemic. And they live long lives, they were quite elderly. So very sad, not tragic. And they did die of COVID. But what it really made me start to think about is what do I really want from my career. And then I started to realize this, a lot of lawyers, particularly in their 60s, not always could be younger, who really haven't thought that through, then who could really benefit from working with somebody to come up with a plan a strategy and to start experiment thing. It's not like practicing law, the process that I take people through the next stage is really about having an open mind taking action. I base my work on something called designing your life, which is a book by Bill Burnett, and Dave Evans, who are out in Stanford, and they applied design thinking to career management, actually, either avid who you've mentioned, just wrote a great book, which is more focused on retirement, their book is more focused just on careers in general. But there's a bunch of principles that they that they raised, that I think are really great for career exploration, and they're very, very different than the practice of law. Lawyers sort of have a goal in mind, and they work towards it until they close the deal till they produce the will. Until they, you know, move the case along and and take the depositions and then whatever, the it's very, very goal oriented, the process that I take people through is not you don't know where you're going. And that's okay. And what I love about working with people that are sort of later in their career, because I'm also at the stage myself is if you've made it financially well enough, I mean, not all of us could be wiped out by by long term care. But, you know, forgetting that a lot of lawyers are in this country are ageing, and you know, they've made it and it's more like, they just haven't figured out what to do next. So they keep doing the same thing. But they have options. And I love working with people to sort of draw out of them. What is it that really makes them motivated, and part of it could just be doing more pro bono work or being involved on committees, mentoring younger associates, or it could be something like spending a little more time with their grandchildren, and cutting back on the practice. So there's all kinds of options, and it's an exciting time. And there are a lot of lawyers that are in the situation. There's a lot of aging baby boomers. And then the final piece of it that really excites me about doing this kind of work is that it feels like there's a need there. And the need is that, as I've alluded to already, you know, a lot of law firms need to think about these issues from a from an organizational standpoint because the health of the organization will rely on how well law firms continue to Bring up the next generation of talent and and make sure that the clients that they have feel like they're going to continue to be served. Because I mean, you know, we never know how, you know what, how long we're all going to be here on this earth. And I'm not saying that every 70 year old isn't in danger of imminent death. But you know, realistically, if a law firm hasn't done anything, or a lawyer hasn't done anything to sort of lay the groundwork for transitioning clients, and they're 70, you know, they could drop dead from a heart attack the next day. Or they could start to go into some cognitive decline. So thinking these things through on the, on a systemic level is really important for the law firm. And I think what gets in the way of it is that a lot of lawyers are afraid of, of what's going to happen when they aren't going into the office every single day. So I really enjoy helping lawyers to figure that out and address that issue.Ron Bockstahler  40:54  Yeah, we don't have time to go into it today. But I think having your back would be great to talk about the mental health. You know, we know there's a lot of addiction and some not so good things that working so hard, and the stress that can come from being a lawyer kind of falls into place into play, it's been addressed a little bit more now. But definitely something I think having a coach would help.Stephen Seckler  41:16  There's a lot of work going on in this in this realm, I'm actually going to be doing a webinar, I don't have a date yet, or any information specifically, but people can reach out to me, I'm going to be doing a webinar in the fall on keeping your law firm, healthy, and I'm going to be speaking. And then a woman who runs basically a wellness program where she does, basically wellness coaching and crisis intervention in institutions like, you know, corporations, but also law firms. So there are all kinds of issues that that are getting more attention now. And you know, succession planning what people do with their careers as part of it, just dealing with what you just said, substance abuse is another piece of it. And, you know, it's not all about just working, I mean, even fully cared about was making money, you got to make the machines run properly. And that means paying attention to these issues.Ron Bockstahler  42:09  Well, you got to be happy with what you're doing. And if we're happy we can make the world a better place. Right. It's a good starting point. Steve, I want to thank you for joining us today. It's been great talking to me, there's so many things we could talk about. But I think that I think we'll just get I thought we're just getting started. Now we'll have to have another show, I think people need to know that. You know, having a coach someone they can work with is super important. You spent so much money to get to law school, don't stop having someone help you out someone in your corner. And you know, call and get a coach, a counselor, the counselor, you can find Steve that counselor, Counselor calmStephen Seckler  42:49  is actually a counsel to counsel calm,Ron Bockstahler  42:52  yeah. He's got a great podcast, I've listened of many of his shows need to tune in to understand what's going on, just give him a call, because I think he can help help you, no matter what stage of your career you're at, he can help you just, you know, either positive reinforcement or say, hey, look, here's what you can do to make it better. But you know, take that extra step and find a way to enjoy what you're doing. You gotta leave the final comments to you.Stephen Seckler  43:17  Yeah, no, I agree. It's, you know, life is too short, you know, start doing what you want to do, if you can, I mean, it is a bit of a luxury, but if you could afford the opportunity to, you know, to change the life and try to build the life that you want. There's no reason not to do it.Ron Bockstahler  43:37  You know, I can say that my career, you know, I've worked with 1000s of attorneys, with my company. And I've seen so many just quit practicing law, brilliant attorneys, but they were just frustrated. And it really had nothing to do with, with law itself. It had to do with the business side or had to do with, you know, other things that that could have been controlled if they were if they had a coach if they had the right people. And so I just stressed you, instead of getting frustrated, just reach out for some help. And, you know, call Steve, he'll help you out.Stephen Seckler  44:08  Well, thanks, Ron, I really appreciate it. And it's been really great meeting you and learning about your services. And I'm excited about your services, because now I have a place to send all these people that are starting their law practices, who want resources like paralegals that they don't necessarily want to hire, but they need on a fractional basis. I think that's a fantastic resource.Ron Bockstahler  44:29  And we appreciate that, you know, it took me a long time, just like a lawyer trying to figure out what their career is going to be. But it took me a long time to figure out what, what I wanted to do, and you know, what my company would look like. So I started my company 20 years ago, but it wasn't till 2012 that I really started, you know, working only were exclusive with law firms. And then I realized what I really want to do is I want to make legal services available to everyone in the world at affordable price, but to do that You gotta, you gotta find a way for the attorneys to, you know, be able to do it. And that's what kind of led to what we're doing today. But you know, there's, there's a way to do it. And I'm talking to the attorneys that are working in corporate America that are making, you know, millions and hundreds of millions dollars that we all hear about. Because that's not the majority. 76% of attorneys are with the firm of five or fewer partners, or they're on their own. But it's really hard to be able to afford to give low cost, legal practice and still survive. And I think that's where we're and then we're seeing some sandbox start starting, you know, what we got in Utah, we got in Arizona, California is talking about it. British, Ontario and BC just announced their new programs, that they're trying to adjust the way laws practice. But our vision, or at least my vision was to say, Okay, how do we make it, practicing law a fun thing to do, and you can do it and be successful and still help others. And that's where we came up with it. So, so working with people such as yourself, it just new expands that, that vision? Let's, let's make attorneys help happy, and they'll help other people?Stephen Seckler  46:08  Well, I think I think the model that you have is great, because, you know, I think ultimately people that I think a lot of people that do end up in practice by themselves, if they've had the luck and fortune of being trained up by a bigger firm, and they've gotten the training, they end up happier when they're in control of their own destiny, and having a front, you know, fractional resources that they can buy from someone like you, or an office that you know, they don't have to spend a fortune on. You know that really, and just buy what they need. That really does make it a lot more affordable. And the old model of you have to hire somebody to do everything. I mean, technology. There's so many ways to run a practice so much more efficiently now.Ron Bockstahler  46:49  Times have changed. We know that people say in law, things don't change fast, but COVID has really accelerated and a lot of things in law change. So I don't see things naturally going back to the way they were so. Yep. Well, thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening, everyone. You've been listening to the 1958 lawyer. We appreciate it and we look forward to talking to you again real soon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Ida Abbott is the President of Ida Abbott Consulting, a consulting firm that has served employers, individuals, partners, and law firms since 1995. Most of her current work focuses on three areas: supporting retirement transitions by helping firms create dignified retirement processes and helping individuals design happy, fulfilling futures; promoting mentoring and sponsorship; and advancing women into leadership. Due to 40-plus years of valuable contributions as a lawyer and consultant, Ida was elected as a Fellow of the American Bar Foundation and a Fellow of the College of Law Practice Management, among so many other leadership positions she holds. Ida's best-selling book, Retirement by Design, was named one of the six best books on retirement and aging by the Wall Street Journal in 2020. Ida Abbot has been recognized nationally and internationally as a thought leader and innovator in developing, retaining, and managing legal talent. In this episode… Are you thinking about the prospect of retirement — whether it's in the near or distant future? Do you want to know how to process and plan for retired life effectively? According to retirement expert Ida Abbott, contrary to popular belief, the transition into retirement typically isn't like riding into a sunset. Instead, the process of retiring is long, difficult, and emotionally-taxing. However, there are many ways to prepare for a new way of life in retirement and help soften the transition financially, emotionally, and mentally. In fact, that's exactly where Ida comes in: to help people plan for retirement, regardless of age, socio-economic class, or career path. So, how can you start to prepare for retirement today to create an easier transition down the road? In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Ida Abbott, the President of Ida Abbott Consulting, to discuss the importance of planning for retirement. Listen in as Ida talks about her background in the legal profession, why people often avoid thinking about — and planning for — retirement, and some key factors to consider now before retiring later. Stay tuned! 

Aging baby boomers now fill the senior ranks of many law firms across the United States. Because of this, hundreds of partnerships will be facing succession planning issues in the next decade. How can firms make successful transitions and ensure the long-term viability of their practices? How will senior partners transition their clients to younger partners, so the clients are well served in the future? How will the next generation assume responsibility for managing the firm of tomorrow? Underpinning all this is a reality: Lawyers are living longer, lawyers have very strong professional identities, and many senior lawyers are not doing a good job of planning their own transitions. A lot of lawyers have worked hard for so long that it is difficult to imagine what might fill the void if they were to leave or cut back. What will these attorneys do when they are no longer chairing a department or actively serving clients they have worked with for decades? What are some of the creative strategies that lawyers have used to figure out what comes next? My guest Ida Abbott has thought a lot about the subject and has put together a great resource for helping senior lawyers to address these challenging existential issues. On today's show, we will be talk about her book Retirement by Design and we discuss some of the practical considerations for lawyers who are further along in their careers. Ida is a leader in the field of talent management and an internationally recognized expert in the areas of mentoring, sponsorship and the advancement of women into leadership. As a lawyer and consultant to the legal profession, she has focused on the power of mentoring relationships to guide, support and transform professional careers from the beginning of practice through retirement. Other Resources Succession Planning for Your Career: What Comes Next? Episode 62- Financial & Career Planning for Senior Attorneys Episode 61-Succession Planning With Senior Attorney Match Episode 58-Managing Your Exit (Career Succession Planning-- with Bill Lahey, Esq.) Episode 40-Succession Planning for Law Firms Meets Chapter 3 for Lawyers  

When you were growing up, chances are the messages you received about retirement were looking forward to a life of “playing golf” and “relaxing” in the afternoon. The truth is that none of us actually know what transitioning to the next stage feels like until it starts knocking on our doors.   According to Ida Abbott, shifting into a new mindset becomes even more important when you’ve been successful. After transitioning from a career in law to helping firms improve their retirement processes, Ida quickly realized there was a tremendous need for practical advice outside of financial planning.   That’s when she authored Retirement By Design. It’s a spectacular workbook filled with guidance on how to get where you want to go. In this episode, Ida shares her advice on defining achievement and success in your next chapter.    We discussed:   The #1 myth about retirement planning (and what you should really prepare for) Why high achievers face a long period of adjustment after work is finished Ida’s discovery of the unexpected guilt people often feel after retirement Practical tips for men who typically shun the idea of confronting their emotions The essential first steps you should take when designing your own Chapter X Recognizing that it takes effort to keep relationships going after your career How to give yourself permission to contemplate retirement—and why it matters

Ida Abbott, President of Ida Abbott Consulting, and Morgan Smith, Professional Development Director at Dykema, visit PD Insider to explore the theory and practice of successful attorney mentorship programs. With the expert perspective of the PD consultant and in-house PD director, their conversation covers the range of considerations facing any law firm developing or managing mentorship programs. This podcast is produced by PLI, the Practising Law Institute, for PLI's PD Center. For videos and other resources tailored to the professional development community, please visit pli.edu/PDCenter.

This podcast was recorded as a video for the CLI-ALPMA Innovation and Legaltech Week 2021 On Demand program published on 1 February 2021. In this podcast, Terri Mottershead, Executive Director, Centre for Legal Innovation (Australia, New Zealand and Asia-Pacific) and Ida Abbott, President, Ida Abbott Consulting discussed the process of successfully confronting one of the most difficult questions for many lawyers and their organisations – why, when and how to retire! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen, the podcast is also available as a video in the CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) Free Resource Hub.

It may seem frivolous to discuss finances during the ‘Great Pause’ the human race is experiencing now due to the COVID-19 pandemic but what if this downtime is a glimpse into our retirement years? What other opportunity will we have to create our own schedules and follow our body’s circadian rhythm with no fear of missing out? Now seems to be the perfect time for us, women in particular, to redefine what wealth means and evaluate whether meaning and purpose have more value than material gains. Are we able to adopt a mindset that goes far beyond feeling financially secure? To investigate the ways we can prepare ourselves the future we want, Positive Psychology Podcast Host, Lisa Cypers Kamen speaks with the Financial Editor of NBC’s Today show, Jean Chatsky about her new financial guide, Women with Money, the HerMoney podcast, and simple ways women can clean up their money life. And, the author of Retirement by Design, Ida Abbott who shares how design thinking principles can play a role in creating a retirement life that brings purpose and meaning to the golden years.

Professional mentor and coach – and former trial lawyer – Ida Abbott shares her expertise about mentoring and sponsorship for lawyers. Topics discussed include: what mentoring is; the benefits of mentoring for both mentors and mentees; the key ingredients of a successful mentoring relationship; the difference between mentoring and sponsorship; and how to find a... The post Building Powerful Mentoring Relationships with Ida Abbott appeared first on Exellegal.

Is now the right time to retire? When is the right time to retire? What if you are already retired, can you kick it up a notch?  My guest, Ida Abbott, wrote a book called Retirement by Design. In our discussion we answer these questions and so much more.  She used the design principles developed for product design, to help people plan for a lifestyle after work that is fulfilling, purposeful and well thought out. Fun book to work through and a good discussion during our time together. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/wendy-green9/support

In this episode: •Intelligent financial planning for women •Strategies for women to get paid their worth •Purposeful life design for now & golden years •Redefining wealth

In this first episode of Boomer Women in the Legal Profession, we introduce our panelists, (1) Attorney Stephanie A. Scharf, co-founder of Scharf Banks Marmor LLC (www.scharfbanks.com), current chair of the ABA's Commission on Women in the Profession, past president of the National Association of Women Lawyers (NAWL), founder of the NAWL Annual Survey of Retention and Advancement of Women in Law, and co-author of the recent ABA publication, “Walking Out the Door: The Facts, Figures, and Future of Experienced Women Lawyers in Private Practice;” (2) Attorney Michele Coleman Mayes, General Counsel for the New York Public Library (www.nypl.org), previous General Counsel for Allstate and Pitney Bowes, and immediate past chair of the ABA's Commission on Women in the Profession; (iii) Attorney Gabrielle M. Buckley, Director of the Gannon Center for Women and Leadership at Loyola University Chicago (www.luc.edu/gannon); and (iv) Attorney Kelly Rittenberry Culhane, co-founder and Managing Partner of Culhane Meadows, the nation's largest women-owned, full-service law firm (www.culhanemeadows.com). Our panel then discusses retirement options for Boomer Women in the Law, including (i) Attorney Buckley describing her transition from full-time private practice to becoming the Director of the Gannon Center; (ii) Attorney Mayes discussing how Ida Abbott's advice about “retiring by design” offers Boomer Women in the Law opportunities to re-tool in retirement the human capital developed while practicing law; (iii) Attorney Scharf pointing out the ongoing challenge to the legal profession presented by 40% of women having already left the profession after 25 years of practicing law; and (iv) Attorney Culhane explaining the platform that Culhane Meadows offers to Boomer women attorneys structured without billable hour requirements and focusing instead on fulfilling the question: “What does retirement look like for you?”

The People Part of Change and Innovation – Ida Abbott on Succession Planning, Reverse Mentoring and a Whole Lot More! In the discussion about legal innovation, we can sometimes forget to focus on the people part. People innovate, organisations do not! People find change hard and innovation is, essentially, a change process.  This is all complex enough but the people part is, itself, also changing right now. Baby Boomers are retiring, the legal workforce is increasingly mobility, employee have different expectations – the gig economy is alive and well for all legal professionals. So, how well is the legal industry coping with all of this?   We spoke with Ida Abbot of Ida Abbott Consulting, an amazing human and guru on all things related to law firm succession planning and mentoring. We focussed our discussion on two of the most pressing people issues in the legal industry right now. These issues have been present for a long time but are finding their way onto the priority list at law firm strategic planning meetings, and will continue to do that with greater emphasis, as legal innovation takes a deeper and wider hold on the industry. These two critical issues are: the impact of the exodus of the Baby Boomer lawyers from legal practice and, the role that mentoring should/can/will play in the consequent “changing of the guard.” Topics covered in our conversation included: How law firms are preparing for the loss of their Baby Boomer leaders and managers. How law firms are preparing for a changing legal workforce more broadly and, how design thinking can be used to support this too! Where the loss of the Baby Boomers will be most/least likely to show up in legal practice. How firms are/are not working on bridging any potential gaps as Baby Boomers leave. Given how much legal practice has changed and will continue to change, is there a role to play for experienced practitioners to act as mentors in law firms today/tomorrow? Can/should the transfer of experience from senior lawyers be limited to other lawyers or should it be extended to the many emerging legal professions? How important is reverse mentoring in contemporary legal practice? What benefits can it bring? And finally, if we all could look from a 40,000 foot/metre height over the next 3 years and observe the depth and breadth of the change in the legal workforce, will we be looking at chaos or calm? Thank you so much Ida  – we have all benefitted from your generous and incredible experience! By the way, we will let you know when Ida's workbook “Retirement By Design” is published in early 2020!

Succession planning is top of mind for today’s legal leaders, for good reason. Nearly 65 percent of equity partners are projected to retire during the next decade, according to research cited in a report from the ABA and the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, while corporate law departments expect a similar exodus from their leadership ranks. In this episode of The Robert Half Legal Report, Ida Abbott, principal of Ida Abbott Consulting, joins host Charles Volkert, senior district president of Robert Half Legal, to discuss critical components of succession planning that can position law firms or legal departments, their clients and departing leaders for future success. They provide insights to assist firms in respectfully supporting senior-level lawyers as they prepare to exit the practice and offer strategies to help lawyers identify and plan a positive transition into retirement or their next career post.

Today’s guest says if you had asked her former lawyer self if she imagined herself in the career she has today, the likely response would have been: “ARE YOU KIDDING ME?” Speaker and author of the “Build Your Dream Network: Forging Powerful Relationships in a Hyper-Connected World,” she has been lauded from Forbes to Fast Company for her networking skills and Twitter acumen. Her entire career story is a networked one, from her first career as a lawyer to being invited to join non-profit and startup boards, to dine with Malala, and then to writing her book and so much more. She believes success is not simply a question of what you know, how hard you work, or even who you have the good fortune of bumping into. Instead, she believes success in a hyper-connected world comes down to who knows what you know. Please join me in welcoming J. Kelly Hoey. Would you leave an honest rating and review on Apple Podcast? Or Stitcher? They are extremely helpful and I read each and every one of them. Thanks for the inspiration! In this episode we discuss: her thoughts on leadership: “Leadership is not being afraid of other people’s success and helping others reach their potential.” her first mentor when she began practicing law, and how he lead in a way that ingrained in her a desire to excel, to be better, and created fierce loyalty. how she has always been career focused but is finally in the career she loves now. the benefit of handing out name tags at an event. her emphasis on showing up and being engaged while also maintaining diverse networks. how she shows people what she does instead of just telling them. Links J. Kelly Hoey on LinkedIn and Twitter. www.jkellyhoey.co Books mentioned in this episode: "Build Your Dream Network: Forging Powerful Relationships in a Hyper-Connected World" by J. Kelly Hoey Other Resources: Learn more about Ida Abbott. About Robbie: Robbie Samuels is a keynote speaker and relationship-based business strategist who has been recognized as a “networking expert” by both Inc. and Lifehacker. He is the author of the best-selling business book Croissants vs. Bagels: Strategic, Effective, and Inclusive Networking at Conferences and has been profiled in the Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and Fast Company. His clients include associations and corporations including Marriott, AmeriCorps, Hostelling International, and General Assembly. He has been featured in several books including Stand Out: How to Find Your Breakthrough Idea and Build a Following Around It by Dorie Clark and The Connector’s Advantage: 7 Mindsets to Grow Your Influence and Impact by Michelle Tillis Lederman. He has guest lectured at many leading educational institutions including Harvard University, Brown University, Cornell University, Brandeis University, and Northeastern University. Robbie is the host of On the Schmooze podcast which features his networking strategies and talented professionals sharing untold stories of leadership and networking. Keynote Speaker Interested in booking Robbie to speak? At www.robbiesamuels.com/speaking you'll find video clips and a description of his signature session, Art of the Schmooze. Relationship-Based Business Strategist Are you ready to create a Relationship-Based Business Plan that will help you achieve greater impact (and income)? You want to have a greater impact and increased income. The problem is that there are so many options for how to build your business that you can feel stuck, overwhelmed, and like you're running out of time. The reason options are overwhelming is that you're looking at them as a series of disconnected steps when -- to make the most of your time -- you need a strategy that connects only the most important and highest impact ones. Why? Because you know it's true that if you try to do everything, you will accomplish nothing. Which means, to achieve your goal,

I spoke with Ida Abbott, the president of Ida Abbott Consulting, which promotes and supports career development and advancement from the beginning of a lawyer’s career through retirement. Abbott is an elected fellow of both the American Bar Foundation and the College of Law Practice Management, as well as the author of Sponsoring Women, What Men Need to Know and The Lawyer’s Guide to Mentoring, the second edition of which was just released. We discussed her background, how mentoring has changed since the publication of the first edition of The Lawyer’s Guide to Mentoring, the challenges to providing high quality mentoring, the difference between sponsorship and mentorship, and how the profession can leverage mentoring in its continued evolution.

I spoke with Ida Abbott, the president of Ida Abbott Consulting, which promotes and supports career development and advancement from the beginning of a lawyer’s career through retirement. Abbott is an elected fellow of both the American Bar Foundation and the College of Law Practice Management, as well as the author of Sponsoring Women, What Men Need to Know and The Lawyer’s Guide to Mentoring, the second edition of which was just released. We discussed her background, how mentoring has changed since the publication of the first edition of The Lawyer’s Guide to Mentoring, the challenges to providing high quality mentoring, the difference between sponsorship and mentorship, and how the profession can leverage mentoring in its continued evolution.

I spoke with Ida Abbott, the president of Ida Abbott Consulting, which promotes and supports career development and advancement from the beginning of a lawyer's career through retirement. Abbott is an elected fellow of both the American Bar Foundation and the College of Law Practice Management, as well as the author of Sponsoring Women, What Men Need to Know and The Lawyer's Guide to Mentoring, the second edition of which was just released. We discussed her background, how mentoring has changed since the publication of the first edition of The Lawyer's Guide to Mentoring, the challenges to providing high quality mentoring, the difference between sponsorship and mentorship, and how the profession can leverage mentoring in its continued evolution.

In this episode of ALPS In Brief podcast, Mark connected with Ida Abbott, Former Practicing Attorney and Consultant on Optimizing Legal Talent,  to discuss why it is so important for lawyers to find and to be champions. Their discussion ranges from the need for more sponsorship of women in law firms to examining how solo attorneys can benefit from mentorship. Listen to the podcast and comment here on the blog, on our Facebook page or either of our Twitter feeds (@ALPSCorp or @NewLawyerPost) to be entered to win a signed copy of one of Ida's books, Sponsoring Women: What Men Need to Know  or The Lawyer's Guide to Mentoring, 2nd Edition which was recently published by The National Association for Law Placement, Inc. (NALP). Don't want to wait to see if you win? Order Sponsoring Women: What Men Need to Know with this 20% off code from Attorney at Work: SAVE20 ALPS In Brief, The ALPS Risk Management Podcast, is hosted by ALPS Risk Manager, Mark Bassingthwaighte. Transcript MARK: Hello, I'm Mark Bassingthwaighte. I'm the Risk Manager with ALPS and welcome to another episode of ALPS In Brief. I am sitting in the corporate office here in the beautiful Florence Building in downtown Missoula, Montana. And I am so pleased to have as my guest this morning Ida Abbott. Ida is from the Oakland area in California and has done some interesting work in mentoring and sponsoring, and has done some writing on the topic. But before we talk about some of the issues that have been so important and that you've been working on, Ida, can you take just a brief moment and tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, your background? IDA: Sure, and thank you. It's really nice to be talking with you, Mark. I am a lawyer. I practiced ... I was a litigator at a large firm for about 20 years. And left there and started a consulting business that's been about the same amount of time. I've been doing work in the area of legal talent management, lawyer's professional development and career development. I specialize in mentoring and sponsorship and also now I'm doing a lot of work helping lawyers transition into retirement and helping firms develop ways to ease that transition. MARK: Interesting. And very, very important stuff. One of the things I've been fascinated by, and I'll be honest and say in my 20 years in terms of working in risk management with lawyers here, I've really not come across this whole notion of sponsorship. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what this is all about the work you're doing here? IDA: Sure. And the reason you haven't heard about it is because it's a relatively new concept. In fact, let's start with what mentorship is and then we can distinguish them. A mentor is ... First of all mentoring today is much more collaborative where both parties are involved and learn from each other and help each other. But traditionally a mentor was somebody who was older and wiser and more experienced, took you under his wing, helped teach you the ropes, understand what the profession was about, how to be a lawyer, what it meant, what it meant to be a professional, made introductions and basically helped you in any number of ways in the course of your career. That was sort of the old fashioned concept of mentor. What happened, really in the '50s and '60s, last century, was people started to study organizations and realized that there was a role for this within an organization. So they started promoting mentoring and started mentoring programs. And in the law mentoring programs became popular in the '90s and as we moved into the 2000s. And because a program necessarily is bringing people together in a way that's not the same. If you and I were working together informally, as a supervisor you might give me the kind of work and the kind of feedback and support that would help me learn and develop. But when we're matched in a program then necessarily there are some expectations within the program. The relationship ... We may know each other to begin with or we may never have met before. And so you've got a much narrower range of activities that are expected and it kind of diluted the concept of mentoring into something that was more programmatic. And what actually happened was because people were being matched and anybody could be matched as a mentor. As long as I had a little more knowledge and experience than you, I could be your mentor. But what it meant was that the kind of mentoring that actually helps you move ahead, that gets you a promotion or a raise, or an appointment to an important committee, or an introduction to somebody, to a critical client, that kind of mentoring was usually not within the scope of a program. So people had to rely on it to happen informally. And as organizations got bigger and mentoring was seen in a narrower way, people started to wonder what was happening. And when they studied this, and it was only about five or six years ago that the first research was done on this, they found that what was happening was that men were being sponsored. They gave it a new term, this idea of helping somebody advance in their career as opposed to develop professional skills and understanding. That kind of mentoring was not happening for women. And so they called that aspect of it, the advancement piece, or the advocacy piece, they called that sponsorship. And that's why when talking about it as something different I see it as the high end of the continuum. But a lot of people might talk about it as something separate. MARK: It's interesting. What I hear and what I like about this is, again, the old school model if you will on mentoring is helping even ... I think of the rural attorney just trying to hang up a shingle out of law school. And you find somebody else to help educate, get you started, teach you the basics. But what you're really talking about here is, in terms of a different way to phrase this, having someone groom you for professional success. IDA: That's right. MARK: Is that really where you're going with this? Is that ... Am I getting the idea of sponsorship? IDA: Yes and no, because even when we've developing, even if you're a brand new lawyer, I want to groom you for success. But the kind of needs that you have have to do more with basically learning what it means to be great lawyer, and how do you run an office, or how do you run a practice. But what I'm talking about happens later in your career. It can happen early. Let me just say we can all use a champion. We can all use an advocate at any point in our career. And a sponsor is that. But when we talk about it the way we do in terms of professional development, it becomes more important once you've already established the basics. You have the platform. You have the skills. Now what you need is to move up. To move forward whether it's within an organization you want to be the president. Within a firm you want to be the biggest rainmaker or the person who runs the place. Or you just want to get more money and more clients and be better. But where there are fewer slots or fewer resources available and more competition for them as you move ahead and you become more senior, that's when you really start ... This becomes more important. But there's no question we could use it from the time you're a kid you know. MARK: Absolutely. I understand. I see the value of this in terms of to the attorney that's being sponsored. I get that. What would the value be for a firm to look at this more formal, pivoting into this type of a model. IDA: Well, the issue is really one about fairness and diversity. The reason this has become so central is because when you look at the profession at the entry level you have equal numbers of men and women, or close to it. You have fairly good numbers at the entry level of diverse lawyers, people of color and people with other characteristics that place them in an underrepresented group. But as you move toward leadership, partnership, seniority you have fewer and fewer people who are diverse. And what you have are a lot of straight white men running the world. For firms that are concerned about why they're losing women and minorities, then you have to take a look at whether sponsorship is happening in a fair way. What the research shows is that women, for example, get plenty of mentors. And most women today, most lawyers coming into the profession are fairly savvy. They've been told since they were kids the importance of mentoring. So they know to look for mentors and I think people are more conscientious about being mentors. What they're not getting though, what they find is that women can get mentors, but they don't get sponsored because most of the people ... One of the critical characteristics of a sponsor is it's got to be somebody with some power. It's got to be somebody with power, influence, some sort of clout that can help you actually make a move forward or up. Most of those people are men, and most men sponsor other men. And they don't sponsor women for a whole host of reasons. Sometimes it's just they overlook women. Sometimes it's deliberate. They want to avoid women. Today we're having a lot of issues about men being afraid to be too close to a woman. MARK: Absolutely. I get that. It seems to me too there's an element here that ... You started talking, some of the work you're doing is [inaudible 00:11:12] planning and these kinds of things. It seems to be long term viability of a firm ... A firm would also benefit to have diversity of thought, and diversity of client base that women and diverse races and what not. In terms of these kinds of programs I just think it's going to add to the bottom line and the success of a firm overall. Do you think there's anything to that? IDA: Absolutely. And there's loads of research on this. That's one of reasons why people are concerned about diversity. I think a lot of firms have a superficial interest in it. They need to meet numbers. They need to satisfy ... But I think the major reason for that is you need diversity in a whole host of ways to keep the thinking vibrant in an organization. If your firm is only composed of people who were successful 20 years ago and that's where they learned how to be great lawyers ... When you take a look at the profession today, somebody who doesn't have current skills or look at the world in a different way and bring new thinking to the table, a firm is going to stagnate. MARK: When you look at national data in terms of the number of lawyers and the size of the firms they practice in and these kinds of things, a significant percentage of lawyers practice in the solo and small firm arena. In my years, and I've been at this for 20 years and doing a lot of consulting myself all over the country ... It's been fun and interesting to come across a number of all female firms as an example, and smaller firms. It is a different just feel. And I love to go into these kinds of settings at times. But thinking about that we have a significant number of women in the solo, small firm space. Do you see ... Can these women avail themselves of the kinds of opportunities? How does sponsorship play into this space? Can it? Does it? IDA: Well, it does. In a slightly different way though. When we talk about this it tends to be within the context of an organization where people are trying to move up within an organization. In a small firm obviously you don't have a lot of the same dynamics. The larger the firm the more isolated individuals are and the more they need this sort of thing. But still you can't really be successful on your own in any organization. Even when it's a solo, you still depend on other people. You depend on people sending you business. You depend on getting your name out there. That goes back to building a strong network, and within that network you need people who will be your champions. Who will send you referrals. Who will nominate you for positions in the bar association or some professional organization or business organization that you want to be prominent in. I know how many lawyers still just graduate law school and hang out a shingle and don't realize how important it is to be connected professionally to other people. I think the general mentor model is more important because you need somebody who's also going to help you understand what it means to be a professional, and a valued and trusted advisor. The sorts of things that you may not learn in law school. So the traditional model of mentoring I think is more important, but once you're out there and you really, you want to go for it. You want to be the most successful lawyer in town in your field. You need to have people working with you to help you. One of the things that we encourage everyone to do is to have a constellation of mentors. People call it things like a personal board of advisors because one mentor isn't enough anyway. Some mentors are really great at some things but not at others. And so as you go through your career there may be many different ways that someone can be helpful to you. Keep in mind this is a very, very much a reciprocal practice. And when I talk about mentoring I emphasize the collaborative and reciprocal nature. This is not a gimme, gimme, gimme. This is a practice and the people who have really good mentors tend to also be generous with their time. And they mentor and support other people. That's a big part of this. But the advocacy role that a sponsor plays, it is important but it happens, again, later in your career. And when you're starting to think about positions within the community or within an organization of some sort. I think that's when it's more important. MARK: Yes, excellent, excellent point. I really like this one in terms of multiple mentors. I think so many people sort of go out and try to find one and we call it good. And that's not, no. Ida, this has just been wonderful. I love the work that you're doing and I love hearing your thoughts. If any of our listeners were interested in finding out a little bit more, how can they find out more? Do you have email? Do you want to share book materials out? I'm happy to give you a moment. How can they contact you? IDA: Well, I have a website, idaabbot.com. My email address is idaabbott@AOL.com. So all that's pretty easy. There's a lot of material on my website that they can download and my newsletters and articles. I've written several books. The two that might interest your listeners in terms of our topic, one is called Sponsoring Women, What Men Need to Know. And the other one is coming out next week, actually. It's a totally updated version of my first book. It's The Lawyer's Guide to Mentoring, and this is the second edition. Both of them ... Well, the publisher of the mentoring book is NALP. And that, as I say, will be available in another week or two. But that will be on the NALP website and in their bookstore, and also on my website at some point right after that. And the sponsorship book is published by attorneyatwork.com. There's a link to that on my website as well. MARK: I think I'm going to need to take a look more in depth at these. I'm looking forward to reading this. I really want to take a look at this one just coming out. Sounds exciting. To my listeners, I hope you found something of value today. It is certainly a pleasure. And, Ida, thank you. Thank you so much. If any of you listening have topics of interest that you'd like to hear us talk about in future, please don't hesitate to reach out at me here at ALPS. My email address is mbass@alpsnet.com. That's it. Thanks for listening. IDA: And thanks for having me. MARK: You're welcome. Thank you, Ida.  

Ida Abbott has been helping employers develop, manage and retain legal talent since 1995, following a long career as a trial lawyer. A mentor and coach to high achieving individuals, she is a co-founder of the Professional Development Consortium and the Hastings Leadership Academy for Women. Much of her current work focuses on advancing women. It's crucial to have a champion for your career and professional advancement, someone who becomes actively engaged on your behalf. Not every mentor will do this. A champion will not only advise you but will actually make things happen for you. This is the highest form of mentoring.

Description: Much of the work of advancing women in the legal workplace falls on the shoulders of women. Most firms have women's initiatives run by and for women, and these initiatives have great value. But they are not changing the norms, attitudes and biases that govern law firm advancement, leadership and rewards. Little significant change is possible at the top of law firms, where it really counts, unless those with power – men – take the lead and are accountable for it. Contact: Ida Abbott Consulting                 www.IdaAbbott.comAbout Ida Abbott:Ida Abbott helps employers manage, develop and retain legal talent, and serves as mentor and coach to high achieving individuals seeking professional success. A prolific author and speaker, she has long been a leader in the field of lawyers' professional and leadership development, specializing in mentoring and sponsorship. Abbott is a Fellow of the College of Law Practice Management, and co-founder of the Hastings Leadership Academy for Women and the Professional Development Consortium.  

Description: Much of the work of advancing women in the legal workplace falls on the shoulders of women. Most firms have women’s initiatives run by and for women, and these initiatives have great value. But they are not changing the norms, attitudes and biases that govern law firm advancement, leadership and rewards. Little significant change is possible at the top of law firms, where it really counts, unless those with power – men – take the lead and are accountable for it.  Contact: Ida Abbott Consulting                  www.IdaAbbott.com About Ida Abbott: Ida Abbott helps employers manage, develop and retain legal talent, and serves as mentor and coach to high achieving individuals seeking professional success. A prolific author and speaker, she has long been a leader in the field of lawyers’ professional and leadership development, specializing in mentoring and sponsorship. Abbott is a Fellow of the College of Law Practice Management, and co-founder of the Hastings Leadership Academy for Women and the Professional Development Consortium.