Trial Tested

In this powerful interview, Judge John Broderick joins host Amy Gunn to speak candidly about the pain he and his family endured during his son's struggle with undiagnosed mental illness – an experience that ultimately led to a life-changing diagnosis. Since 2016, Judge Broderick has spoken extensively, especially at schools, to advocate for mental health education. He underscores how stigma leads to silence and suffering, especially within the legal profession, where it carries real economic consequences for firms through turnover, presenteeism, and absenteeism. Judge Broderick concludes with an appeal: learn to recognize the five signs of mental illness and help normalize conversations about mental health.

In this episode, ACTL Past President Doug Young reflects on how his family, mentors, and love of storytelling helped shape a distinguished career in trial and appellate law. He recounts powerful cases, from defending a troubled stockbroker in a white-collar Ponzi scheme to representing a corporation accused of environmental violations to arguing death penalty sentences – each highlighting the challenge of advocating for unpopular clients. Young shares vivid courtroom stories, including a dramatic Ninth Circuit argument that concluded with a 911 call, all underscoring his belief in professionalism, mentorship, and service.

Celebrated Canadian litigator Sheila Block joins host Sandra Barton.  Sheila reflects on a trailblazing, 50-year career defined by complex commercial litigation, and impactful pro bono work.  Sandra's conversation with Sheila touches on civility; advocacy tips; and Sheila's unique approach to navigating a male-dominated profession with wit and resilience.  Together, they also delve into Sheila's defense of former Associate Chief Justice, Lori Douglas - a case in which Sheila raised challenges to judicial bias and advocated against penalizing victims for non-consensual publication of their intimate pictures.

Neil Eggleston joins host Dave Thomas to discuss his journey from growing up in Indiana to clerking for Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger and eventually serving as White House Counsel during the Obama administration. He reflects on his early experiences in Washington, including his role in the Iran-Contra investigation and later involvement in the Clinton administration, where he navigated the Monica Lewinsky scandal and various independent counsel inquiries. Throughout the conversation, Eggleston highlights the changes between politics and legal practice, particularly the intersection of executive privilege, congressional scrutiny, and legal ethics.

Former U.S. Attorney E. Martin Estrada joins host Vince Citro to discuss his journey from being the first in his family to attend law school to his career as a federal prosecutor and private attorney. Estrada shares how his family's immigration from Guatemala shaped his deep appreciation for the U.S. legal system and motivated his commitment to justice and public service. As U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California—the nation's most populous district—Estrada led high-stakes cases, including fentanyl prosecutions, civil rights violations, and public corruption. He aggressively pursued drug dealers responsible for fatal overdoses, violent gangs and white supremacist organizations. He also launched Operation Safe Cities, a program aimed at reducing gun violence. Estrada reflects on rewarding experiences, such as engaging with victims and mentoring youth in underserved communities, while also sharing difficult moments, including the Monterey Park mass shooting and the loss and destruction of the LA Wildfires.

In this special President's Day episode, host Amy Gunn interviews Immediate Past President of the College Bill Murphy, whose career embodies principled advocacy. Bill recounts his first trial victory – a murder acquittal – his work alongside Edward Bennett Williams, and his high-profile defense of prominent DC attorney Gregory Craig as well as a Yemeni physician detained in Guantanamo Bay, underscoring the emotional and professional stakes of litigation. He also reflects on his leadership role in the College, discussing its efforts to support judicial independence, encourage mentorship and ensure access to justice.

As a young prosecutor, John Gleeson was part of a two-lawyer team that prosecuted mob boss John Gotti. That seven-month trial resulted in 1987 in an acquittal, and one of the jurors was later convicted for taking a bribe from John Gotti's underboss. Five years later Gleeson was the lead prosecutor in the successful prosecution of Gotti, who was convicted of five murders and numerous other crimes and sentenced to life in prison. Gleeson then took the bench, where he witnessed firsthand the impact of mandatory minimum sentencing. In this compelling episode, Judge Gleeson joins host Vince Citro to discuss his journey from prosecutor to federal judge, sharing how his time on the bench transformed his perspective on justice. He recounts the case of Francois Holloway, whose 57-year sentence was reduced through Gleeson's efforts while on the bench. This experience inspired Gleeson to create the Holloway Project, a pro bono initiative that seeks sentence reductions for inmates serving excessive sentences, focusing on those who have demonstrated personal growth and reform.  As of the time of this podcast, the Holloway Project at Debevoise had obtained sentence reductions for 61 clients, and the average reduction is more than 39 years.  

Carter Phillips, one of the most prolific U.S. Supreme Court advocates of our time, joins host Terri Mascherin to share insights into arguing before the nation's highest court. With 90 cases argued, Phillips discusses the impact of oral arguments versus briefs on case outcomes, the art of anticipating questions, and shifts in courtroom dynamics over the past four decades. Phillips also emphasizes the importance of rigorous writing and practical experience for those pursuing a path in appellate advocacy.  

Join host Amy Gunn as she interviews Former U.S. Attorney and Acting Administrator of the DEA Chuck Rosenberg. As they delve into his study of Japanese American internment during WWII, Rosenberg discusses Executive Order 9066, ignored intelligence reports revealing no espionage threat, and landmark cases such as Hirabayashi, Korematsu, and Endo. He reveals how suppression of evidence led to devastating rulings justifying internment, even as Japanese American soldiers fought abroad while their families remained detained. Reflecting on this history, Rosenberg emphasizes the ongoing need for vigilance against fear-driven injustice.  

In this episode, host Dave Thomas and attorney Kevin Hamilton discuss the evolving legal landscape of elections. Hamilton clarifies the distinction between a recount and an election contest, while also addressing the litigation strategies and challenges seen in recent election cycles. The timely conversation delves into complex issues such as redistricting, voter rights and suppression efforts, and restrictions on absentee ballots – especially in marginalized communities. The conversation emphasizes the vital role of the judiciary in resolving election-related litigation.

Chicago attorney Bob Byman joins host Terri Mascherin to reflect on a career of high-profile, complex litigation cases and a Supreme Court argument that reversed a Ruth Bader Ginsberg decision – all delivered with a sharp wit and keen insights. He discusses the importance of resilience in facing challenges, emphasizing a career rooted in both civic duty and professional achievement. Byman also shares the personal significance of his pro bono work and why “nothing” is the best fee he ever earned.

Retired Canadian Supreme Court Justice Rosalie Abella joins host Renee Rothauge to discuss her life and legacy in human rights and equality law. As the first Jewish woman appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada, Justice Abella has championed the rights of marginalized communities throughout her career. Her groundbreaking work includes shaping the concept of equality through landmark decisions and dissents on family law, employment equity and religious freedoms. Beyond her legal contributions, Justice Abella also shares how her family history, along with her love of music and literature, helped shape her worldview.  

In part two of this interview, Jamal Alsaffar discusses the challenges and trial strategies involved in the Sutherland Springs Church Shooting case with host Amy Gunn. Alsaffar highlights the importance of empathy, sharing how he creatively used the courtroom's layout to help the judge and others grasp the trauma experienced by the victims. He recounts the discovery of crucial evidence, including handwritten notes revealing the shooter's extensive history of violent crimes and failed attempts to access military bases after discharge, arguing that the military's negligence in reporting the shooter's criminal history contributed to the tragedy. Alsaffar emphasizes the vital role of trial law in effecting change.

In part one of this interview, trial attorney Jamal Alsaffar discusses his involvement in the Sutherland Springs Church Shooting case with host Amy Gunn. Pursuing the case under the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA), Alsaffar revealed a systemic failure by the Air Force and other military branches to report criminal records to the FBI's background check system, which enabled the Sutherland Springs shooter to legally purchase firearms. Alsaffar highlights the importance of honesty with clients while detailing the significant legal hurdles the case faced, including opposition from the Department of Justice and the gun industry. Through collaboration with other lawyers and contributions to related cases, his efforts led to systemic changes in military reporting procedures, underscoring the critical role of trials in achieving justice and enforcing accountability.  

An attorney by education, Suzanne Spaulding has spent most of her career in public service, providing her expertise on cybersecurity and infrastructure to the United States Department of Homeland Security, the CIA, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, and more. Spaulding joins host Vince Citro for an in-depth discussion about democracy, the strategic advantages of transparency, and how misinformation and a lack of civics education has contributed to the erosion of civil discourse.  

Criminal defense attorney Dick DeGuerin has defended members of Congress, judges, cult leaders and everyone in between. In this episode, DeGuerin joins host Vince Citro and reveals how he came to represent David Koresh and what transpired in Waco, Texas that fateful April of 1993. He also discusses how he avoided becoming labeled a “cult lawyer” through his high-profile representation of public figures such as U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and U.S. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. Listen in as DeGuerin shares valuable advice for young attorneys and underscores the importance of giving back.  

Join host Terri Mascherin as she discusses generative artificial intelligence and its impact on trial law with Professor Maura R. Grossman, an expert in the field. Using recent examples, Professor Grossman explains why this rapidly evolving technology can't be ignored, how to understand its usefulness and how to prevent misuse and “deepfake defense” In the courtroom.  

Join host Amy Gunn as she talks with ACTL Past President Susan Harriman about family, career, and her involvement with the College. Harriman recounts how a chance conversation with a stranger on a train led her to apply to law school after her service as a Peace Corps volunteer. She discusses her role in helping grow a firm from 10 to more than 120 attorneys, addressing the unique decisions and challenges facing women attorneys. Harriman shares her love of teaching while reflecting on her experiences with juries, opposing counsel and lessons learned from some of her most significant cases, including her defense of Electronic Arts.

From discovering his motivation as a student at Morehouse College to walking the halls of the West Wing, former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson joins host Dave Thomas to recount his accomplished career. Secretary Johnson shares his experiences in public service, highlighting high-profile matters such as the repeal of the military policy “Don't Ask, Don't Tell,” while emphasizing the complexities and challenges of balancing civil liberties with security measures. You'll hear how his experience as an Assistant U.S. Attorney helped shape his approach as a public servant, which in turn influenced his leadership style upon returning to private practice, where he is now back to trying cases today.

In this special Juneteenth episode, Professor Douglas Blackmon joins host Dave Thomas to delve into what drove Blackmon to write his Pulitzer Prize-winning book, "Slavery by Another Name," which details the manipulation of the criminal justice system to terrorize and inflict forced labor onto African American men in the South after the Civil War. Blackmon discusses how World War II catalyzed the dismantling of such practices while acknowledging the ongoing issue of mass incarceration and current societal disparities.  

Past President of the College Jeff Leon joins host Dave Thomas to discuss his career as a leading Canadian litigator. He reflects on his role as co-lead counsel to the Public Order Emergency Commission following the Freedom Convoy protests, highlighting the challenges and importance of addressing issues regarding freedom of expression. Reflecting on notable cases, such as the sale of the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey team, Leon stresses the significance of focusing on the legal issues at hand, mentoring young lawyers, and promoting civility within the legal profession.  

In this episode of Trial Tested, former Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks recounts her early career and the challenges she faced as a female lawyer, first in the Department of Justice's organized crime division and then as the youngest Watergate prosecutor. Wine-Banks joins host Terri Mascherin to discuss the obstacles faced by the Watergate prosecution team, including the infamous "Saturday Night Massacre" and the discovery of an 18-and-a-half-minute gap in the Watergate tapes. She discusses the parallels between the Watergate era and the contemporary erosion of democratic norms, reflecting on how her experiences during Watergate helped shape her views on current legal and political challenges.

Go to criminal defense attorney Paul Meyer of Orange County, California reflects on his career with host Dave Thomas.  Meyer emphasizes the importance of preparation and empathy.  He shares his criminal defense experiences with high profile clients such as Dennis Rodman, Merrill Lynch,  national sports figures, elected officials, and the Saudi Arabian Royal Family, as well as his years defending judges in misconduct allegation cases.  Meyer's insight about managing both personalities and complex legal issues is compelling.  He advises young lawyers to focus on cases they enjoy and stresses the significance of compassion in navigating legal challenges, drawing from his work with clients such as Al Joyner coping with wife Florence Griffith Joyner's tragic death.  

In this episode, host Vince Citro interviews David Oscar Markus, criminal defense attorney and host of his own podcast, For the Defense. Markus emphasizes the importance of loving what you do while discussing themes and trial strategy. He reflects on the significance of client testimony and the unpredictability of trial outcomes. Through his experiences, he underscores the evolving nature of trial strategy and the importance of adaptability in pursuing one's passion for trial advocacy.

Join host Renee Rothauge as she discusses the intricate world of intellectual property and patent case litigation with Attorney William Lee. From the Iran-Contra Affair to the “smartphone wars” to navigating losses like the recent Supreme Court affirmative action case, Lee shares his insights and lessons learned from trying more than 200 cases to verdict. He also delves into personal encounters with discrimination and pride in his Chinese heritage. As an inductee into the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, Lee reflects on his career, prioritizing family, and the enduring values of integrity and mentorship.

Sharon McMahon, renowned as 'America's government teacher' and host of the podcast ‘Here's Where It Gets Interesting,' joins host Amy Gunn to discuss topics such as nonpartisan civics education, fostering respectful dialogue and the importance of democracy. Originally a high school government teacher, Sharon unexpectedly transitioned to a national platform, driven by a desire to combat political misinformation and promote civil discourse. She stresses the need for empathy and engagement to bridge ideological divides and promote an educated electorate.  

Honorable Willie J. Epps, Jr., judge in the U.S. District Court, Western District of Missouri, and author of The Jackie Robinsons of the Federal Judiciary: Examining the Appointment of the First Black Federal Judges, joins host Amy Gunn to discuss the history of Black federal judges, mentoring young lawyers, and fair and impartial treatment – irrespective of race – in the courtroom.  

The Hon. Suzanne Côté was the first woman to be appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada directly from private practice in 2014. This week, Madam Justice Côté joins host Amy Gunn to discuss her surprising journey from litigator to the Supreme Court, the heathy value of dissenting opinions and the importance of “answering the question.”

Jeffrey Rosen, President and CEO of the National Constitution Center (NCC) in Philadelphia, joins host Renee Rothauge for a comprehensive discussion about the US Constitution. They explore topics ranging from civics education to the impact of AI to the importance of fostering civil discourse on constitutional principles, all underscored with Rosen's dedication to educating people about the Constitution through the NCC's innovative platforms.

Late one night in 1994, Marcus Boyd was fatally shot on his front porch, leading to the wrongful conviction of Lamar Johnson. In 2023, Johnson finally walked out of a courtroom a free man after having served nearly 28 years for a crime he didn't commit. In this episode, host Terri Mascherin is joined by Johnson and attorney Charlie Weiss to discuss the importance of Pro Bono work and the extensive investigation that ultimately led to Johnson's exoneration.

From religious discrimination to execution protocol, Judge Jeremy Fogel is no stranger to handling challenging matters in his courtroom. Judge Fogel, recipient of the Samuel E. Gates Litigation Award, joins host Dave Thomas to discuss effective advocacy, emphasizing empathy and mindfulness in the courtroom. By examining the role of culture, language and trauma in shaping individuals' experiences, Judge Fogel delves into the importance of addressing unconscious biases within the legal profession.

ACTL Past President David Beck emphasizes the importance of humility, hard work, and continual learning in this interview with host Vince Citro. With notable involvement in pivotal cases such as the BP Oil Spill litigation and other matters for Exxon, Beck's extensive career has earned him respect and admiration from clients and legal professionals alike.

For Michele Roberts, former Executive Director of the National Basketball Players Association (NBPA), a career in law was sparked when her mother took her to observe local court proceedings as a child. Host Mike Herring delves into her experiences as Chief of the Trial Division at the PDS, her transition to private practice and her pivotal role at the NBPA. Roberts provides valuable insights on managing egos and agendas while maintaining credibility and connection, both in and out of the courtroom.

Brian Gover is known for tackling complex legal issues and leaving an indelible mark on high-profile cases throughout his career. Gover discusses his work in criminal and Aboriginal law, where he has represented both the Crown and individuals seeking justice. In this captivating conversation with host Dave Thomas, Gover emphasizes the importance of due process and treating both the powerful and powerless with equity.

In 2021, as international peacekeeping forces prepared to withdraw from Afghanistan, about 270 Afghan women serving as judges feared for their lives. A small group of international women judges, led by Patricia Whalen and Mona Lynch, tirelessly coordinated evacuations and sought government assistance to help these women escape. Join host Terri Mascherin for an inspiring conversation with Judges Whalen and Lynch as they share their remarkable story of bravery and perseverance.

Join host Mike Herring as he interviews DeMaurice Smith, delving into a remarkable career that spans private practice and time in the U.S. Attorney's office, leading up to his unanimous appointment as Executive Director of the NFL Players Association in 2009. Recognized for his role in guiding the players association through the 2011 NFL lockout, Smith was pivotal in facilitating a groundbreaking collective bargaining agreement and spearheading the development of vital health and safety protocols for players.  

Judge Barbara Lynn, recipient of the Samuel E. Gates Litigation Award and the first female chief judge in Texas history, shares wisdom from her experience as a trial lawyer and judge in this interview with host Renee Rothauge. Judge Lynn emphasizes the importance of speaking up for what you want and taking opportunities to learn and practice while discussing topics ranging from jury trials during the pandemic to the use of AI in the courtroom.

Marc Mukasey is known for managing high-profile cases such as the defense of Navy SEAL Edward Gallagher in a widely publicized trial and Halliburton in the Deepwater Horizon disaster. Mukasey joins host Vince Citro to discuss the importance of authenticity, connecting with a jury, and maintaining the fight for the pursuit of justice.

Ambassador Kevin O'Malley's career spans from prosecuting organized crime for the Department of Justice to private practice to serving as Ambassador to Ireland. After his tenure as Ambassador, he returned to St. Louis University Law School where is now a professor and ambassador in residence. Host Amy Gunn discusses Ambassador O'Malley's journey from being the descendant of Irish Immigrants to his nomination as ambassador, and how it instilled a deep appreciation for empathy and understanding diverse perspectives.

On Juneteenth 2018, ACTL Fellow Jeffery Robinson stood before a packed house at the Historic Town Hall Theater on Broadway in Manhattan to present his closing argument on racism in America. Five years later, on Juneteenth 2023, Jeffery joins host Terri Mascherin to discuss his documentary film titled, “Who We Are: A Chronicle of Racism in America,” and his nonprofit organization, The Who We Are Project.

The conversation with attorneys Bob Trout, Josh Treem and Bill Jeffries continues as they recount how a criminal defense attorney came to be accused of obstruction for simply doing his job. Listen as they discuss the issues resulting from government overreach, cooperating criminal defendants and false testimony – among other things – with host Amy Gunn.

When you're a criminal defense attorney facing government accusations, what do you do? In Part One of this captivating case study, attorneys Bob Trout, Josh Treem and Bill Jeffries discuss with host Amy Gunn how the defender of one criminal defense attorney came to need his own criminal defender and what happened next.

Sandra Day O'Connor Jurist Award recipient Barbara Pariente became just the second woman to be appointed to Florida's Supreme court in 1997. Six years later, and just one year before becoming Chief Justice, Pariente was diagnosed with – and later beat – breast cancer. Host Dave Paul uncovers the stories behind this trailblazer in the justice system as they discuss strength, integrity and enjoying life after serving 21 years on Florida's highest court.

He has prosecuted a serial killer and represented a mass murderer, but Houston Gordon's greatest joy as a trial lawyer is representing catastrophically injured children. Listen as host Mike Herring uncovers the natural storyteller in Tennessee litigator Houston Gordon as they discuss Lt. William Calley and the My Lai Massacre, the clemency of Cyntoia Brown and the lessons learned from a 50-year career in the courtroom.

Attorney Benjamin Brafman has represented some of the highest-profile white collar criminal defendants in New York. From Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein to NFL wide receiver Plaxico Burress to Executive Martin Shkreli, Brafman never wavers from his number one rule: Be the best-prepared person in the courtroom. Enjoy a discussion spanning Brafman's 50-year career with host Dave Paul.

Historian Dr. Heather Ann Thompson always starts with the facts. Host Amy Gunn talks with Dr. Thompson about what happens when history gets it wrong, and her decades-long research into finding out the truth about what really happened at Attica Prison. Listen as they discuss Dr. Thompson's book – Blood in the Water, The Attica Prison Uprising of 1971, and Its Legacy.

Iconic civil rights attorney, preacher and recent recipient of the ACTL Thurgood Marshall Equality and Justice Award, Fred Gray takes host Gregory K. Wells on a tour of the Tuskegee History Center. Known for representing Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Jr. and the victims of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, listen as Gray discusses his life's work fighting for equality and justice for all.

Mike Cody was on the trial team who represented Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and was one of the last attorney groups to speak with Dr. King prior to his murder. An avid runner, he's logged in over 80,000 miles, using the exercise to process, relax and think about tough cases. Listen as Host Mike Herring speaks with Cody about segregation, Dr. King, and his life of legal service.

Join Host Mike Herring as he speaks with Past President of the College, Andrew Coats. Coats talks about his journey in the Navy, law school, and prosecuting one of the biggest murder cases in the history of Oklahoma. Coats is known for his landmark argument in the US Supreme Court that broke the NCAA's college football TV monopoly. His experience in the courtroom allows him to be a great teacher in the classroom. Insightful discussion – enjoy.

Kati Marton, a journalist, human rights activist, author, and great storyteller. Marton speaks about Angela Merkel's iron composure and how nothing could rattle her. Trial lawyers are often goaded – learn by example from Angela Merkel; don't take the bait. Join us as host Amy Gunn recounts excerpts from Kati Marton's book The Chancellor, the Remarkable Odyssey of Angela Merkel.

Rick Friedman, trial lawyer, published author, teacher, attorney and influencer, joins host Dave Paul for an in-depth conversation on practicing law and the importance of mental health and therapy.